The Statesman. — London, England, 1821-06-28 00:00:00

~, de sure be bad mentioned, he then inquired of Mr Vansittart if he was to be considered as bound by 'Alt hr ItAd said, and the answer be received ribs, that he was not bound to procure the ground for two hundred pounds. Adverting to what had been said of the allowances to Scotch Bankers fir transmitting the revenue, he traced the circumstances under which the -asbding arrangement had been formed, and gave it as his opinion that they did not profit by it. He ex pressed himself disposed to support the Government, as they bad overthrown, one of the greatest tyrants the world had known, but lie complained of the unhand soine attacks sometimes made upon Scotland, and con cluded lamenting the taste which bad obtained in the present times for assailing individual character. Lord A. HAMILTON disclaimed all intention of imputing to the Honourable Baronet, or to the Chan cellor of the Exchequer any corrupt motives for what they. had dotie. He. however, should vote for the motion if his Honourable Friend pressed it to a divi sion. He wished to know why the Honourable Baro net had caused Mr. Lorimer to propose to the Board, or, doing so, why did he not come forward and fairly state the situation in which be stood. The Hon. Baronet had offered to be security for Mr. Lorimer, aid had recommended the scite of the New Stamp Ogre. as more convenient, and as that which might be obtained on more favourable terms than any other. On two of these points he (Lord A. Hamilton) differed from the Honourable Baronet. He would ask why there was no contract—why there was no estimate — and why had no security been obtained up to this moment?—Wiry had the business been wholly arranged by Sir J. Majoribanks, Lord Melville, and the Lord Advocate? Why was the King's surveyor not cut ptoyed ? The circumstances were suspicious, and the Treasury certainly had been guilty of great neglect. It was a thing nut a little remarkable that the Board of Stamps wrote to the Treasury that there was reason to fear that persona of influence in Edinburgh would al() all in their power to defeat the objects of the Board. It was dear, he thought, that political influ ence had been used in the progress of this matter. It had been done in the same spirit of opposition to the general and universal opinions and sentiments of those on the spot best able to judge, as the houses Ltely erected on the bridge, which connected the old mid new twins of Edinburgh. If ever there was a national undertaking begun, continued and finished in oppwition to the wishes and prejudices of the whole of those interested in it, it was the defacing 4 the City of Edinburgh by the building of those I. ,uses. He believed too that it had its urigio in a fraud upon that House, the Act empowering the n.casere, having been smuggled into a Bill in the shape of a clause, which uu one had any knowledge or notice of whatever. He could not feel a doubt that the Board of Stamps matter was in all its parts a job. In what he had stated on the subject, be did nut wish to be considered as having wade a charge in any way personal. He could not acquit the lion. Baronet opposite of improper interference, but be did not say his motives were improper. In the same teanner, with regard to the Right Honourable lien tleniau, he bad uuly to say, that he thought had he seen the whole of the correspondence of the Boma of Stamps, be would have acted differently from what he did. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, Ilse question appeared to hint to be, whether the Trea- ' to.ry ought, iu the execution of a work for which they were responsible, submit their own opinions to illot.e of a subordinate Board. The Board of Stamp st as certainly not independent of the Treasury, and in his own opinioq it ought not. There ought to be one superintending supreme Board, responsible to a cer- Lin extent for the proceedings of the others, and therefore chargeable with a rigid scrutiny into them. With respect to the choice he bad made in the present iestance, of a spot fur building the office in question, In should not enter very largely into the subject, after the adequate explanation given by the Hon. Baronet behind hint. He could, however, state, that he had decided as he had done with greater pleasure, as he understood that the plan be had approved of, would be subservient to the beauty of one of the first cities, in that particular, in the world. Three plans had been suggested for the Stamp Office. One was to appropriate Sir W. Cunningham's house to that pur pose ; another was to purchase Dmithreck's Hotel ; and the third was to build it where it at present was. He believed that he would be hurtle out by those who acre aeqnainted with Edinburgh, that each of these, a far a. regarded locality, was equal to the other.— The houses themselves, however, were not of coarse so well adapted to the purpose as the New Stamp ()dice which hid been built. With respect to the compara tive ecoaotey, Dumbreck's Hotel was to Cost 9,9110/. including t h e charge of fitting it up. The estimate of building the New Stamp Office was 9,10 U/. which therefore would be a saving to the public expense.— The piece of ground which had since been attached to it behind, to ensure light and air to the Office; by pre venting building upon that ground, brought the este blishment. to nee, ly the same expense as Dombreck's Hotel. The lion. Baronet had certainly cffered in a private conversation with hint to procure that piece of ground at 2001. which it afterwards appeared was worth 10001. But he did not think that it would be becoming on his part to have taken advantage of a laity expression, let tall, perhaps, by accident in pri vate, eribich, as a man of honour, in a private trans :tulip; he would have been disgraced fur doing.— In-allneion to what the Honourable Member (Mr. Hume) bad said, relative to the transfer of money, he had to observe that as the only difference between the att. of.tbe Hon. lientlenian opposite (Mr. Moberly) and the Bank of Scotland was a period of five days in the date of his Bills, he had thought it but fair to give,the preference to the latter, which bad for so long a period done the business with pnnctuality and pro priety. Mr. MARERLY explained the transaction al luded to by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. and the Hon. Baronet (Sir J. Majoribank), in which he was involved. '1 he Scotch transmittances were geseeally made at sixty and forty days date. He however bad offered to blovernment to do the same at twenty dayi date. The ChaneellSof the Exchequer then accepted the offer of other parties at thirty-five days date, thereby making a loss to the public of fif teen days interest upon throe millions of money. Hr bad net asked' the Chalmetter of the Exchequer for any tenor. hat merely for fair competition. and as to the amber id doing liminess with the Scotch Bankers, others upon other Hoimp Were concerned, they gave him a great deal of trouble. They always paid ill oniploiind notes,*aud were in the habit of giving liglit coinage, and of pitting into practice every sort of dishonourable trick and shuffle in the coarse of business. The Hon. Member was pro- cording, when The Marquess of LONDONDERRY suggested that the Honourable Gentlemau was departing from the question before the House. The question he appre- hended was not whether this or that was the cheapest mode of transmitting the Revenue of Scotland, or as to what were the practices of certain Scotch Bankers. Mr. MABKRLY said, he bad nut thrust himself upon the House on this occasion, and he thought it contrary to the usual custom or justice of the House to refuse to hear an explanation [tom a Member when he had been personally alluded to on all sides. As he was, however, the last man that n•ished to occupy the atten tion of the House about his own concerns he should say no more. Mr. HUME shortly replied. No answer bad been made to his statement, because none could. All that had fallen from the Hon. Baronet supported and coo firmed what he (Mr. Hume) said. He should let the facts speak for themselves, and they would clearly pro claim the whole business a job. After a few words from Sir J. MaJoatnaNas, Sir 0. ewes, and Mr. Hume, the motion was put and nega tived without a division. On the motion of Mr. HOME, a copy of all the Correspondence between the Board of Stamps and the Treasury relative to the suspension and restoration of Mr. Bremner, was ordered to be laid on the table of the House. it caws .. Dispatch in queettess the House and in the bands of the Hon. Gentleman 'opposite (Air. Bennet ;) but the case of Mr. Hook contained more in itself than the Dispatch could-elncl- date. When the accounts, tbrougli which the defi ciency had since been discovered, first came into his office, they were in that state of confusion that all it was in his power to do was to refer them to the Office for the Audit of Colonial Accounts. Being usage, from the intricacy of the accounts, to arrive at an ac curate knowledge of the extent of the mischief, the Noble Lord at the head of the Colonial Department contented himself with removing Mr. Hook from the situation which he held, and leaving the affair to be placed in a clear light by the Auditors. Shortly after the receipt of the dispatch of Governor Hall, Mr. Hook arrived in this country as a prisoner. A question was submitted to the Law Officers of the Crown, as to the propriety or legality of detaining him, and also whether there was evidence enough to substitute a criminal process against him. The Law Officers decided both these questions in the negative, and Government had no resource hut to leave the accounts in a state of in vestigation, and to collect evidence to establish the criminality of Mr. Hook. Since that period he knew , that the examination of the Accuunts had gone on. Mu. Hook had frequently been called before the Examinants, to give information on varions points, and at the present moment a case was before the Crown Lawyers, upon which they were to decide, whether a Criminal charge could be sustained, or whether it would be adviseable to adopt a different course. If legal steps were to be taken against him, the House be was sure would agree with him in thinking they ought to abstain from interfering in the manner proposed by this motion.—(Hear.) If it should be otherwise, lie should have no longer any objections to the production of the paper in question. He owed it to his Majesty's Government to stale, that the moment it appeared that Mr. Houk was a defaulter, every thing belonging to him ou the island was seized.—(lleart) Mr. BENNET said, that after what had falic3 from the Right Hon. Gentleman, lie should not of course press his inoti)n, which he begged leave to withdraw. He wished however to be informed whether Mr. Hook had given any security upon his appointment? Mr. GOULI%URN stated that no security bad been taken in Mr. Hook's case, but means bad been taken to prevent the recurrence of such an omission. With the permission of the House the motion was then withdrawn. PUBLIC EXPENDITURE. Mr. HUME prefaced the motion, relative to the Expenditure of the Nation, of which he had given no tice, by adverting to the distress which prevailed amongst the agricultural, manufacturing, and com usercial classes of the country. Relief was demanded from all qusrters, and none, he was confident, could be given Lut by reducing the expenditure of the coun try. The calls of the country had not been listened to by that House or it would not have been his task to come forward vitls that motion at this period of the Session. Such was the state of the public accounts that two individuals makiug a statement on the same subject could not arrive at the same conclusion. In this manner of conducting public business he begged of the House to look at the state the country was in in the sixth year of peace. Ibe charge of the pu..lic debt mid nut been reduced one farthing, but had actually been increased 180,001. He therefore thought a re.l duction ought to be matte, and might be made, of four millions annually, without touching any resources which ought to be considered as sacred.- He was in a condition to chew the error of the statement made by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that a million had had beet saved. The supposed reduction took place in the Miscellaneous Estimates, and the reduction was merely nominal. In 1917, ttirteen millions were voted ; iu 1818, 1819, and 1929, upwards of 14 1 ; and this year, 14,353,0091. The increase, had heen progressive: anal the votes of the present year were therefore considerably worse than those of 1817. The Army Extraordinaries could not be cal culated exactly; but calculating from the votes, they were more than those of any of the last four years. The public had a right to look for a considerable reduction in these depall talents. In 1792 the expense was two mil lions ; in this year, 9,900,009 f. An increase nearly in the same proportion, had taken place in the Navy. The whole charge in 1792 for Army, Navy.' and Ordnance together, was four millions ; and this ve-r it was 14 millions. The debt had increased so lunch, as to require an inual payment of 32 milli ins instead of 12 millions, which was the interest in 1792. Hon. Members had declined voting with him, one, be cause he said the statements were matter of opinion; and another, because lie said they were matter of fact. The Chancellor of the Exchequer, however, could not get over 6 , snres ; and upon them lie (Mr. H.) would rely. The Noble Marquess had, however, invariably pro mised that if a reasonable reduction were proposed, it should be adopted. Now it appeared that in 1817, the total expenditure was 67 millions; 1818, 88 ; in 1919, 68 ; in 1829, 69 ; and this year 70 millions. He had this year occupied a considerable porti as of the time of the House. He was not ashamed to confess it; bat he had dope so to accommodate the Noble Marquess —(A laugh:)—who in a former Session had called for .pecifie statements. In talking of reduction, the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite hail taken credit ler sums which never had been considered permanent. It was, easy to chew a nominal saving, by leaving out sums which could be postponed another year. He (Mr. H.) had therefore taken the expense at an average of four yearns which he conceived to be the fair way of taking it. When the Right Hon. Gentleman did not call for extraordinary votes, he called it a saving. This was not the kind of way , of saving he (Mr. Hume) wanted. He wanted a saving in the expense of general Establish ments. They were masked, and he was sletertniased to unmask them. Large sums bad been paid to the Com missioners of Woods and Forests to pay for improve ments, and of these sums no account had been rendered. Similar payments had been made to the Bank of Eng land, the Goismissiosers of Queen Anne's Bounty, and other public bodies. The accounts of these papers were huddled up together so that no idea could be formed of their propriety. He thought, however, that the whole of them might be saved without any detriment to public interest. 'the Hon. Member then enumerated the earl ous branches of the Army, regular and irregular, which, an the ag to, be sioatiended had increased. Those for parade g and s home purposesnight he thought be re dared; and this argument would apply to civil caw, T E STArj -. *AV, .1," he *sew not srls right Let &Pisa ball state tof the balance due by him to the 1 1 who to illterfore ylthishat. 1110 iertOnly minds Iltestecti T*a y that Colony." Mu' tletnen pay tbeit noted. 'tit they did ' so by issul;tt .1/4r. OULISURN said, he could have have no ob- foe" others upon other Howe, ko,Ssutlaotl. As far as they Oction to the Dispatch is (pestles 'mint laht before •ni HUSBANDRY HORSE TAX. Lard MILTO N , in behalf of the Hun. Member for Cumberland (Mr. Cur►re's), postponed the tbird read ing of this Hill till tomorrow. He *ls) gave notice of Isis intention to more for the insertion of a clause to exempt from the tax bosses employed iu carrying stone, slate, straw, 1:c. Mr. T. HOOK. Mr. BENNET iu proceeding to make the motion of which he had given notice, relative to Mr. Theodore Hook, who had formerly held an official situation at the Mauritius, begged to state that he was actuated solely by public motives, in thus calling for intermit lion on a subject of individual character. The Hun. Menther then proceede I to state, that on the 15th of January, ItolS, the ALting Governor of the Colony of the Mauritius, received a letter from one of the Clerks of the Colony, subscribed with the word "con fidential," which informed him of certain means prac tised by Mr. beodore ilook for ;appropriating to his own use portions of the public money which passed through his hands. 'Air. Allan, the Gentletuau who made this confidential communication also stated that the amount thus misappropriated by Mr. Hook, was not less than 37,150 dollars, the truth of which might be seen by a reference to the Treasury Reports ; and at the same time expressed surprise, that the Let had escaped the notice of the public Auditor. To this communication, the Governor replied. that notwith standing the express ti wish of Mr. Allan, that it should remain confidential, it was of such a nature that he felt himself called upon to refer it to .lr. Hook. whom he charged with the conveyance of the answer he then made. Mr. Allan the same day received this letter from the hands of Mr. Hook, accompanied with his discharge front his situation, with the remark from Mr. Hook, that be was ruined fur ever. On the 26th of October, Mr. Allan wrote another letter to the Go vernor, in.orming him that lie had receiied a visit from a Mr. Hope, who had given him orders to quit the island, but told him, that in consideration of his former services, and his having a family, he was to be allowed • pension of 25 dollars a month. 'the Go venor informed him in reply, that he had not autho rised Mr. Hope to make any such communication, and Mr. Allan remained on the Island. '1 he last com munication made on this subject by al r. A.. plainly evinc ed that his mind was somewhat shaken, proceeding, no doubt, from the extreme anxiety and distress of mind which his situation endured. On the 9th of P-bruary following, a Committee was formed, consisting of the Chief Secretary, the Governor, the Auditor, and the Paymaster-General, and after the examination into the state of the accounts, it was discovered that there was a deficiency of sixty-three thousand eight hundred awl sixty-five dollars. It then appeared that all the information given by Mr. Allan was correct. Jus tice was done to his character, but be did not survive to receive the reward of his integrity ; he died before t!.e examination was inetituted:- It was discovered that a number of fraudulent notes had been put in circulation, by which means the deficiency in question hail occurred. The result of the investigation was. that the Governor sent Mr. Hook a prisoner to Eng land, t.y the advice of the Attorsey-GeLersl of the Colony. When he arrived in England he was, pro perly as he (Mr. Bennet) supposed, released, and had been ever since at large. it appeared by the account current of the Treasury of the Mauritius, of the tith December, 1513, that there was a deficiency on the part of Mr. T. Hook, of 39,733 dollars. lu order to put the matter in proper train for Parliatnen.ary notice, be should snore for the production of an ex tract from a dispach from Governor Hall, relat ing to the deficiency of Mr. Kook, and for the ac count which contained an official statement of the amount. He knew there were many other matters treated of in the dispatch in question, and he should therefore content himself by leaving Government to present that part of it for the information of Parlia ment which related to Mr. Hook. If it should ap pear that there was a deficiency he should call upon the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite to state whether any sureties were taken for Mr. Hook on his receiving the appointment, and if so why they were not come upon ? He trusted he had nut overstated any part of the case. He had stated it as shortly as he could, and, not, he hoped, in an unbecoming man ner. He thought the public had a right to know to what extent Mr. Hook was a defaulter, and what steps Government bad taken in the matte?. He moved, " That an humble Address be presentel to his Ma jesty, praying that be will order to be hid before the House an Extract from the Dispatch of Governor doll, Acting Governor of the Mauritius, bearing date the 411th April, 1018, respecting the suspension of Mr. Theodore Hook, and an Account, coatalning a ..to received large salaries for trifling public serrir -. Thus far as to numbers. The expense had ineream o even with reference to an nnerinat number kept en 'n former years. The mode in which commissions weer given away was highly to be reprobated. He could shew upwards of 300 instances in which person, .+ re put on half pay the day after receiving their com u iia•iec. Half•pay wits intended for past services, and this practice was therefore in direct violation of those principles. He must admit that a different practice was followed in the Navy, and he wished the House to notice the c:reun k . stance; as it was improper such military power sheuhi be given to any Commander•in-Chief. Out of Mb advancements, only 300 had taken place out of the half-pay. He thought pytice to the officers on h a lf. pay demanded an official return upon the silkier:. The Government had transferred 247 officers frnii the line to the veteran battalions, in order that they might enjoy full pay. The Commissariat department scarcely existed in 1;92, and it was now p.•rfertiv enormous. In the course of the session, he had pr. - posed a redaction of 20,000 men. Dot he had nit).. drawn it at the suggestion of Lis frieudb. reduction would hare saved considerably more thin a. million. Various reduction% had however been proposed, amounting in the who!' to 1,690,000/, but not one of thew had been adopted. I lie expense of the Navy had increased beyond ail measure time the year I 792. The expenre of building for the la , t seven years amounted to the enormous sun of 17 millions, and the House h4d voted in one item 200,0001. for Dock-yard Officers, and lenyan. tot the men, so that the pay of the Superintend ants exceeded that of the workmen.—(lfear.)-- In the Dock-yards alone we had expended in the last seven years more than live millions. Really be thought some degree of coniparis in ought to be drawn between our exproses and our means.— Out of the vote for building ships he had pro. posed a reduction, because lie hail thouglit that some attention ought to he made to the man tling as well as to the building. lie now came to the Ordnance. It appeared that 101,01101. bad been paid foe gratuities alone. This iirAcire had Leen stopped by the Government, but it was clear to liim that 200,0001. might be saved from this department. 7he whole course of the proceedings in the iloumt ',hewed in his opinion that the only way to obtain economy was to compel it, and the only way to compel it, was by withholding the money. Every elepartmeat was over charged, and he would pledge leis existence that a sat. ing might be made in each. The Receiver tienerafs department might he reduced by 75,000/. if tiorernmest et ere really disposed to reduce it. Ile was sorry to observe that there was little disposition to carry into Effect the Report of the Finance Committee. His o b se ry g tissee this respect was perfectly warranted by the 11111 iapto gress for the allowance to the Duke of ClArence. With regard to the Report in question, he was happy toes cept the conduct of the Paymaster-Deneral, who had shewn great candour throughout, and who had in ge neraladopted the recommendation of the Cotutuittee. Hu thought the House ought not to separate without passing a Bill for carrying into effect every Resolution of the Committee. Ile had on a former occasion brought under the notice of the House the mode in which pay ment was made to the Distributors of Stamps, and lee pledged himself to get all the Duties perform ed at s reduction of 50,0001. iu the expence, with out incurring the slightest risk. Ile called upon the Government to adopt this proposal of themselves with out an Act of Parliament. lie could find persons of substance and respectability to undertake the office at 2 per cent instead of 6 per cent. which was allowed ot presentin some parts of the country. With respect to the expensed collecting the assessed Taxes, he had re ceived many letters from Scotland, complaining actu ally of the laziness of the public officers. The expense of collection was from three to eight per cent. on the net produce. lie would here just refer to an official paper eel sting to Ireland, shewisg an increase of 15,1100/. a rear in the salaries, and a decrease of 500,000 t. in the revenue for the last year. —These were instances he referred to for the purpose of !hewing the solidity of his observation, that a million a-year might be sated. For this impose be might submit t' , e tiling off of the taxes upon candles, soap, leather. and salt. Even not.: it was not ont of the power of the House to make the reduction. The House lead granted an immense Civil List, and a Pen sion List of 31'0,000/. out of the Consolidated Fund. If they were di s posed to relieve the country, they bad now a fair opportunity of doing so. It was for his Majesty's Ministers to make a reduction with a good grace. No man could deny that the less the taws the larger would be the National Income. He well I:new what he said, and he was convinced of the truth of it, for the money was more profitable to t he coantry in the pockets of the people than in the coffers of the Exchequer. Ile should tiser•fore conclude be atosig a Resolution, which he had drawn np in terms as little objecti.enahle as post.ible. It was to the follow ing e ff ect :—That an humlele Address, be presented to his Majesty, praying that with a view to relieve the public distress, be would he please I to order a minus's Investigation into the Expense , ' att,•ntling the Collec tion of the public Revenue, and into the prarticabilill of diminishing the National Expenditnrc n.ltleout de. triment to the public interest, and especially w ith re ferenre to the reduction ell t h e Army . The Marqness of TAV I STOI *K, in secon din g the re- e o lotiou, declared his eolori , -tion that the vigilaat cat duct of the Hon. Member for Abe7cleen, had enured him the confidence and the gratitude of the r ple. lie regretted, however, that the Estimates for the year had been brans' : t into such very minute de tails, as he did not wish to see that Home usurp the office of the Executive.—(Cheers.) —lie hops the Hon. Member woald no longer waste his tin'' and his consitution in arempting to gain an ia: duence in that House ; especially as Ministers 114 resisted every proposal for relieving the public di'; tresses lev economy. The patronage of tieverarnent Ras unheard of; :tad it necessarily I ,Iloweel ths the exercise of that patronage Lad an iDaneace ow the minds of the best of men. Ile shoull never even to gratify his constituents make the least ss -Ibe crifice to obtain a future seat in that Rouse. t N o o r b i ll , ll p la r r o q fe u s e g s i s on o , pp o o f sit e e c : n o o n o ld y. no : s ta it he w a s nv .: cr d e i r t ts: the boon he bad lately granted to tue Agrio! i ,4; oo4l4c rists, was given in consequ ence of the u Lion of bis own friends. He could not ii,tti,.°;g ar : withont entering his pr o test against arming of the nation against the other. i been llt•hid great regret, that his Maj est y bad i.v.7 B 9 - ill '