The Statesman. — London, England, 1823-06-20 00:00:00

a Oren grievously disappointed; bat he still believed that e Marquess Wellesley, as the. head of the Irish °overate went, was sincere in his desire to testis. those 'spec aliens that bad been formed. Ile would not fling from Ills mind that belief, though he could only account for the disappointment he experienced, by recollecting the ditli enhies with which the Noble Marquees hid to contend. The Resolution (part of which the NobleLord.read) said that the causes of the evils which afflicted Ireland were deep in the system; such was the fact, and they were not evils that could he remedied by Petty Sessions ' Ave, by Orating large sums for Glebe-hoeset and Churches, ice. They would not remove the long series of lajeries and oppressions, and the recollections which they left on the minds of a high-spirited, •generons, and bold people. — From the period of the Union,-no Government had pos sessed the power to treat the people of Ireland with that kindness tilde) have been beneficial to both countries. A Noble and Learned hoed (Redestlale, we believe) had, on a former occasion observed, that there was one law for the tich and another for the poor, and both of them exe cuted very badly. That was the case, and such fact showed then part of the evil. But the Noble and Learn ed Laid to whom lie had alluded, last year expected that Government would do something ; and that had been the expectation of other 'Noble Lords. The measures then required by the Ministers had been granted; time had elapsed; hut was Ireland quieted?—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lend at the head of 'the Treasury had last year tirade an appeal, ad kominem, to them, observing that the appointment of the Mat trees Wellesley was an ear nest t , at the Government nutter' to probe the evils... — Bet how Lad they probed the evils? What bad they don-? They had produced the Tithe and Distillery Bills.—(:fear, hear.) Were those measures all that the country had a right to expect? The Government ought to he established for the public good. bet them look to tic i (Teets of the Government in Ireland • let them judge of The tree by the fruit; and then let it be stated whether they had resulted from the faults of landlords, or the imperfections of schoolmasters? The state of Ireland confirmed the maxim, that there was no security for any eight or law, except is here the pele had a share io the political privileges. Never had t here been a people so long in an abject state as Ireland. Recollecting the cha racter of the peoale, and calling to mind what they were sill suffering, to adopt the language Of the lawyers, be maintained that a prima facie case was made out for in quire. lie hid no expectation that any Divine right would be urged—a doctrine which he hoped was now re pudiated by the people, however it might be received by Cabinets. He was desirous that justice should be done. 'line present state of the world made it incumbent that justice should be done to Ireland in particular; fee Vraoce was likely to become more daogeroas to this country than ever it was in the reign of Napoleon's }tower, if success attended the present contest. There 'Jolla he snore danger towards their Protestant Govern ment— and he did not speak without some knowledge of the sAject—froin the enmity of Prance, triumphant over Sp do and Portugal, and backed by the Holy Alliance, the Army of the Faith, and the Jesuits' Missionaries.-- If nutting were dune for Ireland, he feared, that they would neither have the power nor the will to preserve it. A Government to be legal meet her founded cm the affec tions of the people; a Government by force was illegal. If the present system of Government in Ireland were entWuned—he might not live to see it—none of their Lordships might live to behold the event; but if the system were t ersevered in, the contest would ultimately end in rending one pail of the empire from the other. — For these reasons he pressed on the House the policy of t einpting the motion, and Instituting timely inqairy.— (ilear, hear.) Loud li ING spoke in favour of the motion. The Duke of LEINSTER said in reference to what had fallen (rota one of the Noble Lords relative to the Society for the Education of the Puor, he was himself a supporter of the measure, and abont two years ago he twos obliged to withdraw from it, and unless some means ii ere Liken tt would fall to tire gronral. The blarquess of LAN SDOWN was astonished, at this late pet ilia uf the session, after so much had been saiu, that nothing had been done for Ireland. He had bees astonished to hear the Noble Lord talk of boons bevies been conferred. With reference to the Act by which the • importatiou of corn was regulated, that, so far from ' being a boon, was a measure of the most obvious, clear, and substantial justice. (Hear, hear, bear.) For what• was or ire just than that this country, which found a market for her woollen, cotton, and hardwares in Ireland, s'eu old in turn consume the only commodity of that - country, her provisions? With respect to the making of roads, he believed the Noble Lord had not read the re . port of the engineer, or he would not have called road tuakinig beneficial to Ireland. He would there have seen th it it was a mere job totem) the landlord and his te nant, for the sole benefit of the former, who, provided he got the amount of his presentment in advance from the treasurer, which he could easily do by paying a discount of 10 per cent. did not care a pin afterwards how the road was made. With respect to education, there bad been schools for educating Protestants, hut none for e d u cating the Catholics; and when it was found that the Cetholice would not be converted, would it not be better to educate them their own way, than leave them - without any education at all? The Commissioners of Eduelion had recomnientled the establishment of paro ch;al scheols in Ireland, but the recommendation had nut been carried into effect; and the Noble Baron him self had recommended, when in Ireland, that two and a half per cent. on the livings of the clergy in Ireland should be applied to the support of parochial schools, but neither had that recomme ndation been com p lied with.but when the Insurrection Act was called,for no de lay was admitted (hear, hear.) The measures which the , Noble Earl had held out, in expectation, for the ameliora tion of Ireland, bad not been carried into effect, but the' abuses of the laws had been allowed to demoralize the people When the grievances of Ireland were stated in Parliament, it was laid that they could be remedied with out the aid of Parliament—that if landlords were consi derate—if the peasantry were industrious—if the magis trates were impartial, and if the country gentlemen would reside at home, the state of Ireland would im prove. But were net all the evils complained or, the natural consequences of the misgovernment of the coon .try? (hear, hear, hear.) If all the records of history could be effaced, it would only be necessary to look at the present state of Ireland, and it would not require the profound penetration of a flacon or a Montesquieu, to determine that she hail been 'the victim of misgovern meat for the last hundred years (hear, hear.) It was riot to common. measures they were to look tor the ex tinction of such deep-rooted evils (hear) They bad lately beard that, the balance of power in Europe was a chimera, and tie wise men who ma le the discovery Lad instituted for it a balance of opinion at home ; and it apps .red their greatest dread was a predominance of opi • him) in the Cabinet in favour of lieland. It was inl e t's- Ode that Ireland e..eild be placed in the state she had a i right to expect from the Legislature by such a Govern aneut (hear, hear). Credit had been taken fur diminish ing the taxes of Ireland, but it bad out been done tilt the' country wee io impoverished as to be unable te pay:. and eves iu this stite, the expense of the laws was so great. that the courts of justice were shot ag.aiaat. all . Ind the rich. Ireland was in a state different from as I . country in the world, both by the divisiiios that exis ' and tne separation of the church from the people; a opinion prevailed that the law was not the friend of the people, which was the effect of giving all the power to one privileged class; fur though Catholics were admit ted by law, they were excluded by the . praetice. The Catholics were eligible to :?,540 Aces to Ireland, bat THE •,STA' they were is possession' of SO More than one hundred sad six. (bear, bear.) The bare statement showed there was a power at work is Irelandthatdrprived thoCatholte th e enjoyment of the privileges to whi cis helms entitled, and it most be difficult for a Lord Lieutenant who was not supported by the lioveroment to remedy the eVil (bear.) I It appeared by slate inquiry that had taken place , thtt in Dublin Catholics were never admitted on a grand jury that were to raise money. From the concurrent testimony of all who were acquainted with Ireland, one of its greatest evils was the deep-rooted opinion that was entertained' f the sanctity of an oath taken to oppose the law. On a Mte occasion, one of the highest inquests of the country ex amined witnesses on an important subject affecting the ad ministration of the laws. A witness appeared before them of respectable situation—he reused to answer the questions' put to him, alleging he was under the, obligation of one of those unlawful oaths, which, in the plenitude of his We' ranee, he thought was an obligation superior to that by which he was bound to obedience to the law. A more brit tient opportunity could not occur of teaching the people of Ireland the respect due to the law ; was the lesson taught? it was not. He was allowed to shelter himself in disobe dience to the law on the mischievous principle of giving a triumph to another party.—(Hear. hear.) If the Govern ment was not atroog enough to give a triumph to justice, it not fit to govern.--(Hear. hesr.) The Noble Lord, saking some observations on the Tithes Commutation Sill, to which he said the landlords 6f Ireland would not agree Is its present form, said he expected his Noble Friend's reso istion. if carried, would produce the best effects, and he should therefore give it his warm support. ' The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, he would admit that the system under which Ireland was formerly governed was bed; but Lord Grenville had stated, that no country ever received more acts of justice and kindness than Ireland during the late reign, and the same system would still be followed ; and he was willing that the Marquess Welles ley's government in Ireland should be tried on that pried- It was not to be expected that great manures could be serried into effect suddenly ; but they were In progress, sod would produce their effect. The greatest evil in the state of Ireland arose from the want of connection between the rich sad the poor, which. he hoped, might yet be remedied; and Mike Noble Duke's motion led to any inquiry on that point, be sight agree to it; but it was too general to be useful, and, therefore, he must oppose it. The Bishop of KILDARE defended the parochial Immo bents of Ireland from the aspersions thrown upon them in the course of the debate. The Marquess of LANSDOWNE explained. The Earl of CARNARVON said, if it wait the wish of the Noble Earl (Liverpool) to infuse a British spirit into the population of Ireland, in Goe's name. let the House go Into that committee by which the Noble Earl's wish might be accomplished. The majority of that population were treated as aliens in their native land. In the Noble Earl's picture of Scotland, he forgot that the church establishment was national, and not like that of Ireland, foreign to the faith and feelings of the country—(hear, hear.) If their lordships delayed the appointment of the committee, it might happen at oo distant period that they would be compelled to look their danger in the face, whea least prepared for such an event. When all Ireland should be confederated to ex clude our dominion, our attempts to restore it might excite only their derision. At former periods of their disturbances their discontents was ascribed to foreign intrigue; but now the dissensions of Ireland could proceed only from the wildness of despair. The Noble Earl (Liverpool) alluded vaguely to plans of relief ; but hitherto all the measures of Government bad failed. It was therefore the duty of their Lordships to take the business into their own hands. The opposition to the inquiry arose from a dis position to shrink from a question, the consideration of which appalled the Ministry. There was no measure which the Noble Marquess at the bead of the Irish Go veroment should propose, that would not meet with a more powerful and resolute opposition from one pin of the Ministry, than it would receive able and elfici ent support from the other part. By delaying the in- I fluky the House would incur the most serious respon stbility. He trusted that a majority of their Lordships' vtonld support the motion of the Noble Duke. He looked with no satisfaction at the Tithe Commutation Bill. Whenever it was proposed to reform abuses in Scotland. the articles of the Union with that conntry were quoted against the change ; but though the Union with Ireland expressly confirmed the at.olitioa of the agistmeot tithe, yet no sooner was a Bill for commuting tithes introduced into Parliament than the agistment tithe was attempted to be restored in spite of the Union. Under the present system of misgovernment, Ireland was only a source of danger. Twenty thousand men landed tbete might destroy the independence of the empire. Policy, duty, justice, all imperiously required that the interests of Ireland should be consulted. After some further observations in support of the motion, the Noble Earl concluded. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and their Lordships divided :—Contents, 43; Proxies, IG, 59 Not Contents, 66 ; Proxies, 39, 105—Majority against the Motion, 46. The House then adjourned at half-past One. • ~~ ► ) , . ------ . HOUSE OF COMMONS, THURSDAY, Jest 19. A new writ was ordered for the borough of Hertfeird, in the room of Lord Viscount Cranborne, now Marquess of Salisbury. A petition was presented complaining of an undue return for the borough of Rossiney.—Ordered to be taken into con-' sideration on the Bth July. Mr. BIRCH presented a petition from the merchants and manufacturers of Nottingham, against the Bill for repealing the Combination Laws.—Laid on the table. Mr. NIARRYATT asked the Colonial Secretary if it was the intention of Government to comply with the prayer of two petitions that be had presented relative to the application of British law to the island of Trinidad? • • Mr. W. HORTON replied, that it was the intention of Government to send out Commissioners to Trinidad to in vestigate the subject. Mr. BEINETT presented a Petition from Robert Gourley and others, labourers in a parish In Wilts, complaining of the low rate of agricultural wages, hedging paupers. &c. Mr. ELLIS brought up the Report of the Irish Court of Chancery Bill, which was ordered to be read the third time to-morrow. ASSESSED TAXES COMPOSITION RILL. Mr. BERRIES moved the third reading of the Assessed Taxes Comp •sition Bill. Mr. HOSHOUSE wished to know from the Secretary of the Treasury, if windows belonging to shopkeepers, although not shop-windows, were exempted from the tax? Mr. BERRIES observed, that he apprehended the dis tinction was, that shop windows were exempted, but not those belonging to shopkeepers, which did not come under 1 that denomination. The Sill was then read a third time. The House went into a Committee on the Barilla Duties Dill, and the report was ordered to Iv received to-morrow. The Passage Vessel Regulation Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow. POOR LAWS. The Poor Settlement Bill was read a second time, and or dered to be committed to-morrow, PARLIAMENTARY REFORM. Mr. JANUS presented a Petition, signet by 3107 in habi tints of .:rucastle-upon-Tune, praying for a ItA . ortn in Parliament, for Annual Llections; Univers.d Suf frage. and Vire by 11411.1 t. The lion. Gentleman .tateil it to be the opinion of the Petitioners in which he con- Imirred, that all freemen had a right to assist in making =b e laws in person, or by direct representation, wkieli they were expected to obey. He was sorry be did not see the lion. Memb-e for liramber in his place, who had so often exerted his great talents in opposition to Negro SI +very. Be (Mr. James) had it in his power to do somet hing towards emancipating the Blacks, hiving had the misfortune to succeed to estates in the %Vest Indies which had been purchased by his ancestors. But before he did this he most make smut, barg ,in with the Hon. Gentieurso (the Member for lirambee), wh i c h should hind him to use his brat efforts to abolish Slavery among the Whites. The lion, Ucttleutan in Oat case / eetiE • ma_ to appport the Governifiene at he had dOne, in each mealtime as the six Acts, for Vastest,. He then intilltattel. a comparison between 'the situation of the lower classes in this country, and the Slaves in the West Indies, and declared, tali eircosnstances considered, If the litter were. placed in the situation of the former, that be thoogbt, by Heaven ! the exchange would be against them. The English Government de. served credit for the efforts whiche it bad. nude to induce Foreign Powers to abandon the Slave Trade. But be thought before they claimed liberty for a race proverbially ignorant that they Would have done well to require the Despots of the Continent to make their own countrymen free, and the Ministers of this country might to have set them the example by communicating the, blessings of freemen to those who like the present Petitioners complained of the freqnent suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act, of excessive taxation, and the other evils of the present system, and especially of the mis chievous tonseepiences of the wickedly called " Re striction Act of 1797," and the " Act of Confiscation" passed is 1817. Sir 1. COFFIN thought the lion. Gentleman and the Peo.iioners most labour under some mental delusion. He had never seen people more fat, more flourishing, and apparently more contented in any part of Europe or in America, than those he hail met with at the place from which this Petition was presented. Mr. JAMES, in presenting the Petition, put part of it towards the Clerk, but the greater part of it fell from the tells and rolled towards the door. The SPEAKER—" The Hon. Gentleman will have , the goodness to bring up the Petition."—'(A laugh.) Mr. JAMES lifted the petition,whicb was very bulky, on the table, and on moving that it should be printed, took occasion to remark that the inhabitants of New castle, who bad been represented to be so sleek and c tented, to all appearance, most have been that portion of them who lived on the taxes.—The Petition Was ordered to be printed. RECOVERY OF SMALL DEBTS. Mr.ABERCROMIIY.In the absence oflis Noble Friend, the member for Northamptonshire (Lord Althorpe,) presented a petition from 9,60 persons in the county of Middlesex, praying that the sum recoverable at the county court might be raised from 40s. to 61. The petitioners expressed n con fident hope as to the extension of the jurisdiction of the • court to that sum by the House ; but at the same time, ex pressed a further hope that the sum to be recovered In that court might ultimately be increased to hit., which would be a great advantage to retail dealers. The petition was ordered to he printed. CASE OF MR. BUTT. Mr. 110BHOUSE. seeing the Attorney•Oeseral in his place, would take that opportunity of presenting a petition from an individual unfortunately well known to the public ; he meant Mr. Butt. The short history of the case was, that Mr. Butt had brought an action against Sir Nath. Couant and Mr. Newman, for false imprisonment, haying been confined in prison before a bill had been found against 'him, and obtained a verdict of Is. damages. The f our Judges of the Common Pleas set aside that verdict, by a rule which he should ever contend against, and which wasin opposition to the authority of no less a person than Lord Camden. Mr. Butt's friends, after this decision of the Judges, called on the defendant to settle the payment, and Mr. Sheriff Parkins himself offered security In a 4JOf. bond ; but they were told that the defendant could not receive the money, for the Treasury had paid his expenses. Mr. Butt, Boding his creditor would not take the money, applied to the gaoler to receive it, but that officer said that he could not do so, for the Treasury did not stand in his book as a debtor.— Tbe petitioner then applied to Mr. Justice Richardson. who advised him to move the Court of Common Pleas, whicn was done on his bekalf in a very able manner by Air. Sergeant Vaughan, but the Court could not interfere. Mr. Sheriff Par kins then applied to Lord Sidinouth, who told him that it was not a crown process, and Mr. Butt not being a debtor in the books of. the Treasury, it tool.) not be received there. Mr. Sheriff Weidman then in va'n endeav , mred to procure relief for the petitioner. Pe' itions were after wards presented to both Houses of Parliament; and tt.e usual relief was there atrorled,riz.—none at all. When tie coronation took place, Mr. Butt fully expected that some= thing would be done for him; but he was still disap pointed. By this time both the defendants hail died, and he applied to young Mr. Conant, who told him that be could not receive the money, as be had been informed that his late father had been defended by the Solicitor of the Treasury, and his expenses bad been paid. The House should recollect, that 111 r. Butt had been held to bail for a libel on Lord Castlereagh and Lord Ellen borough. A most singular otter was made to Mr. Butt on hjs second application to the Treasury, %%Welt was, if he chose to take the benefit of the Insolvent Act, the Treasury would not oppose him. He was written to to that effect by Mr. Arbuthnot. He considered the con duct of the Trelsury a direct violation of the act of maintenance; and although be bad no particular predi• lection for it, it mutt to be observed so long as it was in the statute book. After having been confined 26 months in prison, the executors, out of pure compassion, made application to know if they could release tne peti tioner; but the answer they received was, that they could not without the consent of the Treasury, and it was by mere accident that Mr. Butt was at last liberated; for if the Treasury wished it they might still have con fined him It is well known that private creditors did sometimes compound .debts, but the Government will nat, and it therefore became necessary that some under standing should take place. This individual, opposed as lie had been. did not come before the House to demand pecuniary compensation, but to confer a benefit on his fellow-citizens. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL regretted that the Hon. Gentleman had not apprised him of his intention to present this petition. He bad attended on several evenings with the correspondence which bad passed be tween Mr. Butt and the Treasury, but he was now, un fortunately, unprepared with the documents, which he was sore would appear satisfactory to the House. How ever, he should state the particulars of the case. Shortly after his conviction, Mr. Butt published a libel on Lord Ellenborough, accusing him of having imposed a fine upon him, and putting it in his own pocket. A similar libel was afterwards published respecting the late Lord Londonderry. These libels were most conspicuously pla carded on the walls, and circulated very generally. In cansequ. nre of this,Alie Secretary of State wrote to Sir N. Conant, to take measures to prevent this nuisance, and then Mr. Butt was arrested ; he refused to give bail, and was consequently committed to Newgate. He sub sequently brought an action, not only against Sir N. Conant, but against Mr. Newman, the gaoler of New pte, for false arrest and imprisonment. The cause was tried in the Common Pleas, and argued with great ability. He was counsel for the defendants; lie was acquainted with all the particulars. and could state confidently that time defence was conducted solely at the instance of Sir N. Conant ar.d Mr. Nee min. Atter some elaborate argu• rents by the counsel on both sides, the Court of Common Pleas, after mature deliber Ilion, determined that the warrants were to fleetly legal. The costs of the suit were efteraards taxed, but stilt amounted to 500/. ; and as Boa was unable to pay them, Bo' Secretary of State thinking it too bad that &Magistrate with a small salary should suffer such a loss, applied to government to have Sir N. Currant and Mr. Newman reimbursed. It had been saiethat an oiler was made to Sir N. Conant, and that he refused to accept the money. This, however, was not the case, and under these circumstances, he was sure the House woohl feel that the interference of Government was perfectly justifiable. Mr. LEN MAN said, that the Government had no T ied whatever to meddle with the public money, to p l a ce themselves in the situation of Sir N. Conanwand fisep this poor man in gaol. He Lop t eil e nm suiroclherameenut am w ould never be repeated, as it gave h oppoitunity of practising oppression. Mr. HOBHOUSE slid. that it did not to him that the Solicitor-General had taken o ff the= of the rise ; it was not only inexpedient but unjust that the Government should interfere in a private law-suit at the pbblic expense. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL repeated the argu ments of his learned colleague. He denied that the claim set up was well founded. But had always plead. ell poverty, and it was only to remunerate those who had unjustly su ff ered that the Government had inter fered. With respect to the legality of the question, he' should only say. that he preferred depending upon the et as of e had fo decision of the Court of Common Pleas to that of the Hon. Member for Westminster. Mr. 110BHOUSE said, he had never Meant to set up his bpioion i oppositionn and t t toat onet Co o f a the of Common Pleas, althoughlearned judge that Conn was the first since the Revolution who had ex. I pressed a favourable opinion of one of the judges wl.o bad tired the seven Bishops. But for his pert he cared not what was said in that house by the law-dfficers of the crown; their opinions was not worth Mat (said the Hon. Member, snapping . his fingers)—(much langhing). He repeated, their opinions were not worth a button ; and • he would ask,was it fair that gentlemen should be taunts ell with their ignorance of law, unless they happened to be lawyers. When a poor mere ignorant layman cause down to complain of a violation of justice, let these et officio defenders of every iniquity prove that they were wrong (cheers); let them prove it by argument, and not taunt them with ignorance. He always felt confident in his opinion when he was opp_osed to the law officers of the crown, not so much a confidence that he was right as that they were wire to be wrong. (cheers.) The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, he should never be ashamed to avow in that hodse, that the decision of ,the Court of Common Pleas was law, eren with the con viction that the declaration should subject him to the censure of the Hon. Member for Westminster (cheers). Mr. DENMAN said, it was a strange remedy to sug gest to Butt, to seed Mato the House of Lords to seek redress when le complained of poverty. The petition was then laid on the table. • HUSH CATHOLIC PETITION. Mr. BROUGHAM said he had given notice of his in. tention to present a petition from the Roman Catholics Of Ireland on Wednesday next, lint as he understood it was not the usage of the House to move for a commit tee on the same day that a petition was presented, be should present his petition on Wednesday, and move for the committee on Thursday, if his honourable friend (Mr. Hume) would postpone a motion of his, which 'Moil for that day. Mr. HUME consented , to postpone his motion, and fixed it fur the lit of July. COUNTY COURTS. Mr. LENNARD, in pursuance of notice, moved. " That a se set committee be appointed to consider the re turns o hid) had been made to this House on the 24th Jinnary Ib2l, from the county Courtof Middlesex, with la view to see whether the fees in the Hundred of Ossal ston could not bit diminished, and the sittings in the other courts inerettsed." Mr. CU KW EN opposed tl e motic:i. Mr.(;. BENNET supported the motion for inquiry, and said he thought the fees were too high. The House thefi divided. The numbers were,;;---. l lya, IS —Noes, 44—Majority, 26. NAVAL. PROMOTIONS. • On oar re-edmission to the Gallery we found Mr. HUME addressing the House in terms of eulogy epos the exploits and character of the naval service, $n what he meant to say, lie intended no offence to any naval officer, be cause lie he respected the service too mu. h to do so; bet since the peace he considered that the Lords of the Adatis rally had itegleoe I the services of old meritorious officers. and plan, d th ir juniors, who were inexoerienced and Inca ;table, over their heads. Nothing could be more grating to the feeli•igs of a soldier or sailor than to be commanded by those who had served under th..ir orders. If promotions were to he matte, and the service kept op, the people of this country had a right to haloe those those officers appointed who might be found efficient In the time of need when it should arrive. Ile should slew that this had not been dons. and he shout.' be much surprised if it should be proved oa the other side that his statement and views were erroneous. Ile complained that the recommendations of the Finance Committee of 1817, w th regard to the reductions of naval superannuation' and officers on half-pay, had not been at tended to. Ile stated the number of naval officers in 16113 to be 3,1368. The Committee anticipated a reduction of five per cent. per annum, which in seven years would have re duced the number one third. But it appeared there were now 5,335, strewing a redaction of 310 only. T•iis was to be accounted for by the Papers on the table, which sheaved that there had been 905 steps or promotions since the peace. Ile believed that in the appointments of Admirals there was not one individual who had not deserved the reward by length of service. But he complained of the flambee of the other promotions, and of their having beef filled by officers whose services had not entitled them, while others of long standing had been looked over. He contended that an im proper influence was exercised, in the manner in which these promotions were made by the Admiralty. The Admiralty had an unlimited power of promotion, which ought to be restricted. lit the Army there could only he as many offi cers appointed as would till up a battalion ; but in the Navy, as lo..had said before, the power of appointing was unlimit ed: The consequence was, that, from calcutations he had made, the number of officers now upon the list was far great er than would be necessary for every vessel in thepossession of the country that could swim or not. In complaining of the manner in which promotions had been made, he stated that there had been 112 Post Captains appointed, and be found that 40 of them had been posted from Lieutenants over the heads of a great number of old and meritorious officers. He acknowledged the facility with which the Admiralty had given him the necessary information for his motion, and expressed his intention of bringiag it forward as fairly as possible, without making it a party question. He believed, indeed, that he should meet with more opposi tion on his own side of the House, than from Honourable Gentlemen opposite. The Honourable Member then named several office - s who had been posted over their superiors is standing since the peace. He particularly remelted upon the cases of Lord Henry Frederick Thynne, and the Honour able Frederick Spencer. The former he stated to have been posted over 3,350 lieutenants, and e 73 commanders; sad that almost without having set his foot on board ship. He had served four years, and a great part of that time *it'll a guard ship, so that he might be said to have scarcely hem afloat. Ile was, however, appointed to a ship. which wee not yet built, but was upon the stocks at Madras. The Hoe. Frederick Spencer was promoted over the beads of SAS lieutenants aft.:r the peace; and, in 1923, he was postedoerr the heads of Thecommanders. These he consPe - ed to bevel strong cases, and he wished them to be Impressed strongly upon the House. Lord Henry Frederick Tili)nne was two years and five months at sea, and then made Post Captain to command old and meritorious officers. Tue Hon. Frederick Spencer, it appeared, was appointed at sea, according to the convenient method of invaliding: and he found ttat there were now two Lieutenants ander him, who were lila officers when he was a boy. He .mentioned several other names of officers who had been advanced these three Op since the peace. Among them he fouud the name of Airs Johnson three times ; and when he saw three song of a Led of the Admiralty so promoted. it was impossible to Of that promotion did not depend upon favour and influence: - After going through the appointor nts of Lieuteaaste 0 11 Commanders since the peace, and contending that the 110 0 disregard of seniority and service had been there observe, he came to the subject of employment.. At such tints Islas Coronation, he should have no objection to amploymentab o lug given, provided there was smarming Moan attention* the claims of Officers by seniority, so that they "honk be taken by seniority or nearly so. And at the time applies' lions were mode to the Admiralty. and assurances *ere el!!! that the senior Officers of merit would he employed.' PP when the time tame it was found that what the Lords et Admiralty meant by seniority was a seniority rif s t= since the peace. 'There were 37 Commanders t hew and how many old Officers would it bethought wereemegeg them ? At least half wired be thought a resisgealdo req. ~R IN el • fi - tl tl • P , tl al tl •1 0 d b I a e co r b it I n s ; i 1 0 t' .4 4 ii fc la 11l SI - 01 bi se et • M tl a 41 I P ti m t t 1 ) V 4 I I I 1 a I I 1 ! l 4 1 1 - 1 t • d ,t a