The National Register. — London, England, 1819-12-05 00:00:00

t •40.11 0 %,..st ••• • J smite s.oettiPOWlJUgis ../110 s.. ••• p • ',v. - *ions was, that persons prosecuted by the Attorney General. should not have the right to topairle. or traverse their pleas. The Noble and Learned Lord said, he had collected all the information he could on the subject, and he proceeded to state the practice which had lung prevailed in the Court of Ic.ioes.Bencli. This Bill did not call on a defendant 'to plead i Int:inter. as he waShound toplead by the ancient law, but • it gave the Court powre to allow a reasonalde time to en able him to understand his indistnaeot,. or_denosc_in _ 46, the Lords permitted the Bill logo to a Committee, it might •be amended as the House should think proper. A defend .ant Was to have the power of removing his indictment by certiorari to the Kim: s Bench, under circumstances of a ta• vourable nature, which did not then exist lie repeated, that the Dill was not introduced from any view taken under , the present state of the times The present law oil this ject was not the ancient law of the land. In the case of the seven Bishops, the ancient law, with respect to im arlance, was violated and it had since been the opinion of lawyers, that the Bishops were harshly treated 'the Noble and' Learned Lord concluded by mos. , ,g, thut-the BM be read a second time. . . . Earl GROSVENOR opposed the'l3ill. on the ground that it would add to the inconvm•enee already felt by persons called to answer upon ex atfi minformaiions and indictments. Justice required they shou.d have the utmost indulgence of the law to priorioe - for their defence. Lord ERWINE opposed the principle of the Bill. It could not be safe to take away the right of traver►e in cases of seditionsiihels In such cases a man otten required more time than the. Attorney General allowed. The Bill d d not preserve the analogies of the law. There must he time to collect evidence. He cited the else 0 , Hatfield, the m.niac. It was cease which had rendered the law of this country • Ilnetrious; it proved how far insanity could reach, and to what extent the indulgence of the law nn such a case would go. When they took away from the accused the power of traversing his indictment, they left him exposed to all the grinding hardships the Attorney General could inflict. Ac cording to the Bull as it ►tood, the Attorney General night delay the trial of the accused, leaving km with all the .Insiety of a prosecution hang•ng over his head for years The Bill came !velure the Home in had company. It came with other Bills calculated to alter and infringe the ancient law of the land. The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, he was not pveparectto defend this Bill on the close application of eat ibliebed law. ft wasnet, in his opinion, salutary to make laws on specu lative principles, but it was an alteiation in the law, justified by the peculiar situation of the country He asked any man who knew what was going on-in the world, whether the ' , resent litentiousness of the press, publishing works the Most dangerous that could be read, was not a violation of .ender and good manners? Conld the House, looking to the effect of those publication.. say society could he kept ther without wine remedial measure. The remedy, indeed,' was difficult, and Government had endeavoured to serve the country by the ;measures recently brought into Parliament. .As the law now stood, it was in the power °Can indoridual to imparle and put off his trial for five or six months, and thereby defeat the ends of justice. l'he Noble Eari admitted shat it was an innovation in the law, but it was, justified by necessity. . . LORD HOLLAND could not avoid making observations on the speech of the Noble Lord who spoke last. His argu • ment went to prove that the laws were subject to abuse, and consequently liable to be changed at the will of the Minister The law considered absurd in theory Lad been framed at the best period of the Constitution by Lord :ionic's, one, of the)createst risen known, in 1688. It was calculated to give a fair advantage to . the subject. lu this Bill the Noble Lords only considered the soli,ary instance of inconvenience anis. ing from seditious and blasphemous libels, but how did the Noble EaH and the Noble and Learned Cord differ in their statements? 'That Noble and Learned Lord declared, tbat the Bill was brought in, not from any view of nice present state of the country, but it was theeffect °Phis intentiou long existing to render the administration of justice more perfect. The Noble Earl said, it was to put down blasphemous and seditious publicatious. Which of the Noble Lords was right informations ez officio had increased of lateeand were increas ing to an alarming extent. , Some hadrot been followed up by trial. The inequality between the accused and the At torney-General, made it noarssary the. former should have the right of traversing, yet that ancient right, given to the subject at the Revolution, was to he torn away on pretence of improper delay in proceeding to trial. It was a deiay the subject had a right to claim• by the law of the land, sod be, could nut be deprived of it without a violation of liberty de'. rived from the constitissiGn.—The Noble Lord, in support of his argument, related an anecdote of Lord Shaftesbury, (an • cestorof the presentlEarl):—Tha tNoble Peer was so impressed with the importance of allowing persons prosecuted for High Treason the benefit of Counsel, that lie stood forward in the !louse of Commons a resolute champion for the privilege. Unaccustorned.to public •speaking, he became embarrassed and unable to proceeds but having collected his ideas, he exclaimed, addressing the Speakee--" Sir, if, in detailing that which I consider right, I have been so ernharrassed as to for get myself will you not conclude, that a man on his trial may lie embarrassed, and will yen take away from an individual, tried upon a charge which may effect his lite, the benefit of Counsel ?" The Noblel.ord wished to deprive the pour man, prosecuted by the .Attorney General, of the benefit the law had allowed •hini. Lord Holland declared his intention to oppose the Bill in the Committee. Atter sue e further discussion it was read a second time. TRAINING AND 'twit FOR AIMS RILLS. ' The House then went into Committee on the Btlls for pre ♦enting Military Training : end allowing the Seizure of Arms. Auer tuna discussions, amendments were made, the Bill, as &Attended, agt eed to,and ordered to be reported.—Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. • I.OIILIAY, NOV. 29. The Speaker, liar mg taken the chair, communicated the ma:vier of the l'riuce Regent to the Address•tif that House, ahicb was ordered to be entered on the Journals. MANCIIMTER AFFAIRS. Ir. BENNETT presented a Petition from merchants, mitertfacturt rel. and others of Manchester and tialford, to the amount of between 6 and 7,000 persons, praying the House to institute inquiry into the fatal events which cc• caned at Alanchtster nu the lath Anguetlast. now. n4t runtime nianciiestpr proceedlOks, the mo tives which led 111111 there, the (drivel of the meeting, ace. It also eel fin th the snidest's mad exertions made by the petiniuuer in the King's Bench, and elsewhere, to institute inquiry in the Law Coats The petitioner alao detailed oat liytelArs regarding what he railed a charge for a pre tended conspiracy. Besides complaining of the Megis. tree., &c. it also foetid :fattlt Narticttlatll► with •Itre Ministers. unavailing cries of No! The House baying resolved itself into a Committee of Supply, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, with em any further preface, he should content himself fur he present with moving that a supply be granted to his Mt. P. GRENTELI, obsessed, it had keen rumoured that there was a couside. able decrease in the consolidated In the f eight millions, in the quainter ending Oct. 10. He sl Id be glad to leaui whether thee. was 4111 V truth in thi. statement. 'fie CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied, that the diminution remitted partly trout the stagnation of trede, and partly from the recent consolidation of the C. 4111- 101110, ire many hail paid up for the preceding quarter to *told any intonate of duty Hien might be incurred by the Consolidation of the Customs' Dories. There was a ilrfi cteney in the Excise of about. 2 .0,0001. a compared with the correlionding period of Itfte, but thst priind's pro. duce %AM the largest ever known. Hut from the toils of October last to the slay on which i'arliatudit the 2sii instant, there had been an increase in every, branch of the Revenue Motion agreed le.—Report to-morrow. STATE 'or THE tour:TRY-11m NEW RESTRIC TIVE MEASURES. 'Flue niece Regent's speech, as tar as it regarded the hoes nal state of die country, having been read, Lord CASTLEREAGH mid, that .theuPrince Regent's Speech unfolded to use House that greet danger existed, that a spirit had now fully manifested itself which was inecesipatible with the public tranquillity, and which was clearly hostile to the Constitution. Such being the fact, it would be teethe intern est of •the deluded and infatuated' themselves to adopt measures to-rescue them as well as the Constitution lions imintiteut danger. He word , ' now come more Immediately to the point before the House— top detail those meson es which his Majesty's ;Ministers would deem it right to propose. The first was to cheek that alarming evil, the tninelteons meetings. The second would be regirdoig the training to else use of arms, A:c. The thud would lie of local operation, similar to what was in effect in 1812—namely, to give esti aordinary possess to search for end seize arms, &e. The fourth would be, to secure the more speedy administration of justice. portico lads in the cases of misdemeanors. And the frith measure regarded the Vies., not the general Press of the country, but lenteasure fur the purpose of mote effectually emo ting and repressing the treasonable, blasphemous and seditious Press. These were the measures which hi:Ma jesty's Ministers deemed necessary to save the country from a ninary rebellion ow the one hand, and as alarm ing an evil on the ether, military despotism, for a •sangti i • uary sehellion would be calculated to lead to such a state ' of things. The magistrates should be Clothed with a power of preventing simultaneous meetings, by "'drying the time etul place of meeting, ler the purpose Of doing which with the greater effect, six days' notice should be give') of the intention to assemble, Meetings should lie stripped of their present garb. No man should meet to petition in aisms,our carry revolution:lly symbols. Those prohibitions were to be extended so all meetings. 'The magistrates should have the power id' rerisding the inroads of a mass of people. They should have the power of pro nonneisig in.:clings illegal from which strangers upon pro. elematiort • refused to withdraw, and those sib() continued alter the proclamation should he subject to serious pu nishment. He should not propose making it feluity of death—(hear, hears—but us chewable felony He thought •it reasonable that a quarter of an hour should be given to strangers to 'ease, and half an hour alter that to the meeting to disperse. The Bill would extend to SariCill•A 11101 registered, Institutions abhorrent to the Constitution. With respect to the training system, the Bill would ope. Tate effectually in preventing the people from being drilled. These should be a difference as to the treatment of the drillers and tlnr drilled. Those who were mnder instruction should be halide to doe and imprisonment, while those who drilled should he subject to transportation. The Noble Lord then spoke of the dangers arising from abuses of the public prem. His object was to apply a salutary contioul, and for that purpose he should merely act upon the established law of ahe land, and counteract the trends committed by vendors of swell publications upon :he regular newspapers, by subjecting all publica tions of a certain size to the duties. In •all this' there was not a tittle against the liberty of the onisiect. On the contrary, the measure would prove A proteetitni to'. the liberty of the pima, and there could be no doubt of the necessity of making it permaosolt Temporary.expes: dients were fell of mischief. The disefferted watched the time of their ending to burst out with irretiewed spirit of hostility to the Governinestt. The Noble Lord concluded: with moving lint leave , to bring in Iwo 8111s—une for more effectually preventing seditious meetings and assemblies; and the other fur makiursegelationsmith griper( to the press. Mr. TIERNEY said, tbal'lse . srate nOtprepared to enter folly upon thus subjeet.mot having had any ides, when he came down•to the House, that meny ponds upon which the Noble Lord had dwelt tench, would have been touched upon. The Mousse could mut with propriety entertain 1 ',rejects of this kind till a ease was made out on which they Could set. All theyhad to go Nom was the notwiety of the proeeedings thus tomb the country, upon the authority of the Papers beltiord Ille.lionse, which acre the only eve dente with respect to the mutiven au.d exlent,ll more gar bled and inistiletedaccount could not easily lie set befose Parliament. It was admitted by Ministers the internal trade of the country was good, and that nothing was to be apprehended excerpt boon lie distress of Ame rice. Ili* was usual extraordinary. It would stquest as if. our natures perversely changed, and we had de tetmiued lo Itlll the nation against its Cmistitatiun, lot • • band and foot. it 11111111 said by the other side of the Howse that the Whipaad been excluded front (assessment Arty years It was true, and the count!, fell it. Discontent and disaffection were the consequences, and new laws were resorted to sea proof*, the woe system of those who op posed the Whio. He wholly disapproved of the prohibi tion respei tint; arms. He w abed to kale whether an lingl simian was not to have arms for his oleo defence. The swan going in *rimed nooses, as ba WeINettIMC rat sernilty - agabsi mischief. The •lebate haring continued 90 a late hour, the Motion has ultimately agreed to. and the House adjourned. TV LIDA Y. NOT. 90. Mr. F. PALMER presented a petition from Reading. praying fur an entestry into the lamentable transartinsis of August 16. at Manchester; and ouiseplmaing that the Court in the di►udcts seemed unitiutis to stifle rather than promote investigation. Petition read and ordered to be printed. RADICAL REFORMERS. Mr. BENNETT presented a petition from on indlvidu .l named kitonfurd, re.idiog at IN iddletun, setting fueth that lee wits acqttainted aitb the events which preceded and occur red at the Manchester alerting, August 16, and praying to beesaatioed at the Bar of the House. The petition a as brought ap and read. REPAYMENTS TO 'fHE BANK. Mr. P. GILEN FELL asked whet progress hat been made lir repaying tb. sums borrowed from the Banks the nmotest sr:412,000,0001. and there was au understanding that , 8111 pail had been repaid. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIICqUER rep cd that a good deal had been repaid. and that istranged e nts had keen made to repay 5.000,0001. within the time pres cribed by Parlimeritt. (Hear!) THE NEW RESTRICTIVE MEASURES. Mr. BROUGHAM asked whether the Noble Lord Wen ded to persevere iu pressing his measures on Thursday• important as they were, and striking at the most impurtruf librrt les of the country ? Lord CASTLEREAGH 'replied in the nffirmative e especially in the measures had been surrounded with seek elaborate mirreptesentationes he became anxious that such misrepresentations should be removed as soon as possible. Mr. BROUGHAM expressed his astunistimeut that the measures should be attempted to he thus hurried.-4( the House were nut to have time to consider measines which acres., put an end to the inalienable Rights of the People, surely It would only he becoming in them to afford -their constituents time to learn what were the merits of the new Bills.—(hear, hear I) Mr. IfENNErr deemed the measures attempted to be thus !untied through Parliament to Alin of nothing less than the subversion of the Constitution ; and possessing such heeling, and being anxious that all tire Members of the Home at least should be pre.eut, to behold andb sub version of the Constitution, he ruse to give notice, that be should to-morrow move that there be a call of the House. —(Lood , cheers.) STATE OF THE COUNTRY. -Lord . ALTHORP rose to bring forward 'his promised - motion regarding the Papers laid before the House by Lord Castlereagh, as to the internal state of the country. He was deeply imp ti with the importance of the too. tion ; and chat lied since occurred, the new measures proposed by Ministers increased the difficulties under which lie laboured. As toilre papers,-there *acre blanks in them, and many parts that refigured mcplanation. The fact of the reading the Riot Act remained in considerable doubt ; how happened this? cull and ample explanations were required. There was use very remarkable fact which proved this opinion. The Noble Lord hail stated. that on the -113th a Magistrate was trampled under foot.; how happened it that no mention of it was made In Iles papers and correspondence/ (Hear.) And great part of these &cements were aeonymons, and coming too from persons who were evidently acting as spies. (Hear,hear.) It might he attended with some danger at all times to divulge uarnesi bet when the Home recollected what °c rofted two years ago, they would be slow to receive the testimony of spies—of persons who might encourage to the commission of improper conduct, that information might atter be given against the offending parties. ( Hear, hear.) He concluded unit moving, thatilie papers be referred to a Select Committee. Col. DAV•LES seconded the motion. To support the system of the Ministers there wet erlaree incrwes to the army and to the lazes; then was there-not some reuse for the complaint of the people ? Why was there not econo my, why did they not behold retrenchment'? In the army alone, an almost all the departments, the salaries were nearly doubled, compared es ith what they were in MG' that being a period of war and the country now having been at pewee fur years. Where was the ssecessity for such extravagance? He most cordially concurred iu the motion. Mr. B. BATFfURST hurresAed at the course which the 'Opposition seemed to be anxious to pursue. They ap peared to he de►irous of giving a tacit, nut an Wooded approval of those whose acts w ere now euniplained of, and also to present the Ouvrrnment from inquiring into the acts and couduct of such individinds.—( Hear, and - laugh from the Opposition.) A very long debate followed, in which SIT M.W. Mr. Kt AAAA aird,-Lord Milton, Mr. Limbo and Mr. Tierney, supported the motion for inquiry, and Lord Castlercagls„ Mr. Lourteriay., and M r. Marlin, against it. The gallery was them cleared, and, grout division, the riiinibers were-- Against the motion .... 323 For it • 150—Majority t 73 The House then adjourned at a quarter berme tiro o'clock. 4EIG , DNE6DAY. DEC. 1. Mr. C. HARVEY obtained leave to bring in a DRI for do lighting of the City of Norwich with Gas. Mr. BISOGDON moved for Returns of Pauper Childress within the Bills of Mortality. Ordered. Cul. DAVIS moved for a Return of the comes of the Person, who have belonged so the public civil deparemente of the army in England and Ireland, the amount of their superannuation, &c. Ordered. _ — iir.fiEYN . ETT said he should abandon his motion for a Call of the flouts. There had been the attendance of 570 and Mo) Members, a member sufficient to ensure a full consideration of ass ((Per •etrerinstatioa of Parnarrehe T o occatifogi x e Ter 00.) .t: frovu-Int :lin : :~