The Statesman. — London, England, 1815-02-28 00:00:00

V weight in each quarter of whe.it, and that he be lit ved was the true cause of the price being so much higher in London. Mr. Alderman ATKINS moved for a return of the quantity of coon sold in the different markets front the first week in Nove.nher to the 18th of Fe bruary, with the ;averages at each market, and in every district.— Gratit , (l. Lord A. HA 111L1'ON said it was very difficult to come to a fair conclusion on this subject. In Lime places they excluded I tish wheat, in some Scotch, and in others they did tint exclude either. — Ile wished to know from the Right [ion. Gentleman whether the averages were to remain as they always had been, or whether any alteration was to take place. If they were to remain na before, then would be 765.; but if any alteration was intended, then the House must be in the dark till by a fair settlement they should be able to see their way. Mr. ROBIN'4ON said, that when Ir. first sub mitted this measure to the coushleration of the House, be had fairly stated that objections were likely to be ma 'e and out of the didiculties arising from these objections, he saw*no feasible mode of makitOg their way s bu. by suffering the averages to remain as they now are. In this opinion he still continued, and should, therefore,• propose that whatever prices the House might agree to, the averages should remain the uma as heretofore. The motion was then agreed to. POST-OFF ICE. Mr. BANKES morel, that the Papers respecting the plan and estimates relative to a Post office, presented to the 11 , iuse this day, should be referred to a select Committee, who should r•port the same, with their observations thereon to the House. Ag.ee.l to. Also, the minutes of evidence taken before the last Cornmittee, he referred to the present Committee. Agreed to, and the Committee appointed. Mr. ‘V I:STERN hi ought up a Petition from the county of F.s•ex. in favour of a revision of the Corn rd. •ed to lie on the table. %l r. CA LVFR r hrougl t up a Petition from the inhabil ants of the Borou g h of Southwark, signed by upward, of 3000 persons, in romequence nf a meet ing held very day, praying that no alteration !night be ►uttered to take place in the present Corn Lass. A Petition %en.; presented from Soeth Cave, in the cou.ity of Yolk, praiisit for a revision of the Corn La»•. —Both these Petitions were ordered to lie on the table. Mr Will I'BREA ID moved for a Return of the numbers of Newspapers sent postage free to the Co lonies and British I•lnnils ; also the like return of .1\ ewsppels sent to the Continent ; also of the Ne * s infp.rs ben' free If. France, and all other parts of the Co•itinent of Eur pe, from January, 1812, to the latest period it ran be made up; also.the foreign Newspapers admitted into this country free of post age during the like period ; also a retui n of the unf. stamped jointed Papers, Pi'kages, or by whatever other ionic they go, which are sent postage free.— AU the motions were agreed to. IZI PORT ON THE CORN LAWS. Mr. BifoGDEN brought up the Report of the Committee on the Resolutions relative to the Corn Nil. Mr. BA RCL xy said it wits with cem.l.l4le . iance he stood up to oppose a string of Resolu tions which had been sanctioned by so large sr majo rity. From the s' ort time he had sat in the House, it ii;ight peshsps he deemed presumptuous in him to diller s'► directly in opinion from so many Gentle nun of much longer Parliamentary experience than lie had to boast ; but lie felt himself imperiously called un by what he deemed his duty, to enter his ►eiinne protest against these Resolutions, and the prii.c•iple on w high they were founded. If he under atm d that principle right, the landholders now came for% • rd and claimed from the House and the country a c•impetisntion for the 'capital which they had in. vested in the improvement of their own estates.-- Sere') by the same rule the manufacturers had an equnl right to come to the II use, and ask for a compensation for the capital they had expended in enlarging their several manufactories, in obtaining nee machinery, and in the purchase of raw materials which during many years of the late war had lain by them a mere drug, and a dead weight. The manu. facturer, however, had taken no such step ; he was content take his chalice in both the home and fo. reioi market, and to depend on the goodness and superiority of his manufacthres to fetch him such a price as might remunerate him both for the capital he hail laid out, and the labour he had bestowed.— Ile was content that the wares he dealt in should go taiely to market, and there find their own level against every sort of competition. The landholders, on the contrary, not satisfied with the high prices of 1 corn dining so many y ears of war, which had in all instances doubled their rents, and in many had tre. bled them, come to the House and require at its hands a compensation for that capital, which had al., ready vrocored them so many advantages, in the! continual advance of their rents during so long a' period of time, during all which the middle and la. bouring classes of the community had been struggling with difficulties, and patiently and loyally suffering privations from which they could expect no deliver. afire if these Resolutions should be carried into clh ct—privations which they had all along been pro. misc.(' they would be relieved from when Providence should send them the blessings of peace. Those blessings, so long looked for, and so much desired, hail been granted, by our being now at peace with 84 the world ; and yet if these Resolutions were carried into effect, the manufacturers and the la bouring classes must greatly suffer, because the high price of corn must increase the price of labour, and that could not he done without endangering the ma nufacturer's competition in all foreign markets. He was decidedly of opinion, that no body of men, however respectable, eight to expect a compensation for the capital they expended for their own benefit, or for the tales they paid in common with other bu. dies of men according to their several circumstances in life.— Ile must, therefore, once more protest spinst the Resolutions, and object to the Report being brolight up. • ••Mr. (.11A'rfAN Said, he considered the present qupoion as of vital tmportanrp to the country. it 1.85 nn Ir‘s. 011111 whether the people of these Uni'ed lorlomssiwold be fed or starred by foreigners?— TIIE STATESMAN. t a s s a ho i rilae (1/11 . 111110Ire, in which' he was stare Parlianimit %souk.' 'lever • 'consent to place the people of this country. If the former in this country was i to be compelled to contend with foreigners in the prices of earn, extol ience had frequently shown, and ne might he certain from all the inferences that I could be deduced on the subject, of what the result l r would be. No less, lie would behold to say, than I that we should be undersold in oar own markets.— I This was clear from the late supplies at the Corn Market, by the emotes of which it appeared evident i that in the same period of time the importation of fo reign corn was 800,000 quarters, and not more than 200,000 quarters from the home supply. The wo-1 mentous questima then would be whether the people I of this country should suffer a present alarm, which he trusted was entirely unfounded, to drive them into the perilous state of seeing this country put out of tillage. The farmer says he must come to that de termination, unless you give him encouragement and protection. if England and Ireland are driven to the monstrous resolution to go out of tillage, the consequence will naturally follow that the manufac turer must go out of manufacturing, for he will have no corn to feed his labourers with but what he must obtain at the mercy of foreign traders in that article : and if either from caprice or any other cause that precarious supply should fail, it was dreadful to con template what would be the situation of the se hole' country. It seemed tobim that the manufacturer suffered • hi s a l ar m o f the !dal] pi ice of corn to fetter his reason, and make him blind to the unreasonable objections they raised against the present measure. It was ne cessary this body of men, acting under the impulse of prejudices so strong and so unfoutieled, should make out a strong ease in support of their objec tions. This they had by no means done as yet. — Their principal view see:ned to he to obtain a high price for their various commodities, and at the same time to have their proviimis eatremely cheap. They argue, that if corn rise beyond a certain price, their manufactures must suffer of course; but this was a mode of reasoning founded on pailosaphicnl calcula tions, which, mince they were made, had been proved by experiment to he altogether false and wrong. Corn is undoubtedly a necessary, but it is not the only necessary of life—and they could not fairly apply the rule of philosophy without taking into consideration ell the errors with which it has : been attended. Were we willing to put the trident into the hands of our enemies ? Were we certain that foreign markets would furnish us with a supply ? At the same time that we were throwing ourselves upon foreign markets, in order 'to make corn cheap, we were triscouriging tillage. The domestic market was capable of supplyirg all our consumption. We had power within ourselves to satisfy the whole of our demands, and it was only the want of mirou ragernent that kept back that abundance which we might enjoy at home, unless we looked abroad. If we encourtged the agriculturists of Ireland, the question would be, not how to procure corn, but what to do with our abundance ? if we coasting/Ad Ireland, we brought the whole of our empire into force. By the protection which we had hitherto afforded to the agriculture of that uitary, she had not only been enabled to support her own loiltahl • tants, but also to supply England with a cousidera• ble portion of taxes and revenue. Did we mean, • then, that Ireland should cease to he un agricultural country ? If we meant her to continue her assistance • to us, how could she do so, but by the produce of her land ? If we took away from her the corn trade, how could she pay us four millions of taxes? We ought to mnke the two countries assist each other; since the one could not go to dinner nor the other to supper, without the benefit of the corn trade. Ile should, therefore, support the Resolutions. Sir ROBERT PEELE observed, that Mr. Pitt'a luminous mind was convinced, that unless bread were supplied at a moderate price, oar manufactures would not survive. The country had risen to its pre sent state of glory by the labours of her manufac turers; and if slim had been enriched by these meaus, . was not every landholder interested in them? If our trade were to he discontinued, and if we did not supply Ireland with the surplus of our country, every article would here fall. The two countries must go hand in hand together. Was the price of land much less now than it was 20 years ago? ft was well known, that it had increased from 15 to 20 per cent. It was the interest of this country not to suffer any measure to pass which was not beneficial to the manufactures. While the sea Was open to as exclusively, we were enabled to force a trade abroad; but, at present, it was open to rival nations, and we had no opportunity of offering our goods for sale at foreign ports, except at a smaller price than other countries could supply them. What was it that con. stituted the wealth of this nation? It was the labour of the manufacturers; and his opinion was, that the ' manufacturer had been the principal f r i en d of the landholder. Let his labours therefore be continued, and this -country would remain the envy of all other nations; but this could only be done by protecting the produce of the earth against any unwise resole)... tions, and enabling the manufacturer to procure bread are moderate price. Mr. C. YORKE said, that every Gentleman who had participated in the debate on this subject the other evening, had acknowledged the necessity of something being done; the only point in controversy was, whether, instead of having 80s. some • lower price should not he fixed. He had n ev e r h ear d an y question argued with more candour; and he believed that every merchant in that House, and every lands holder, bad but one view,—to decide for the benefit of the community at large. The interest of the grower of corn, mid of the consumer, must be the same; and whoever endeavoured to separate them, could not intend ally good to his country. It had been asked, whether we should suffer ourselves to be made dependent on France for our suppint ? No Gentleman could doubt, that if this country could be independent of a foreign nation for food, it would be a most desirable event ; and, with re. spect to France, without. meaning the least hostility towards her, yet, as she must continue to be our na ratural rival, he considered it highly necessary that we should not be dependent on her. Some Gentlemen seemed to think, that the ltesofutions were framed upon a new rule: whereas it was well known, that it was the same system that had.prevailed ever since the time of.sine IYilliarri, and, indeed, ever since we became a trading cation. As to showing a ne• cessity for the measure, he had already acknow. tion from France was little or nothing. ledged it, and every person who had shared in the tion, however, were to take placo, we coo discussion had admitted it. The distress of the eider in what manner it was to be p,iit for agriculturists in England, Scotland, and Ireland, • merce was nothing but an exchan g e of was greater at this moment than had ever been and if we were an importing country, in some r e , known in the memory of man. He must enter his spects, we must necessarily be an exporting y ou , tri tproeest against the view which some Gentlemen had in others. It was impossible that we could m a k; taken of this subject. It had been said, that this large exports of manufactures, 1% ithobe p ro d urt ,,,, l 1 1 country was a"commercial country; but it was also great addition to our national wealth, which ir as ;t i, a great agricultural country, and commanded great fact, the best security to the landholders for Chair inflUence in Europe, berme it possessed any trade at estates preserving their value.—As to the excluiN all. If the commerce of the country were to be privileges to agriculture, by bearing sexing 1 1, I ruined, it would still he a great country; and it. othe r vs interests of society, they ould ultimately b: would be found, that it did not depend so much on injurious to agriculture itself. lu conside r i ng the our manufactures as the Honourable Member whO general opeiation of lazes upon agriculture amid ilia, had just sat down seemed to suppose. If the mann. nufactures, he would say, that, as.they.went cane , lecturers thought they would now flourish as much rally to raise the price of labour, end as there sus as they had clone during the last twenty years, they more labour, employed iu manufactures than it ' were much deceived; fur peace would enable France agriculture, they would bear heavier on our ma ne , and other countries to increase their manufacture!, factures. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had, and to rival us in foreign markets. It had been ar- his Budget, proposed to relieve the landed interest, gued, as if this 13111 was intended to raise the price the burden of the Income Tax, but at the same lim a of corn. This he denied ; and it was well known laid fresh taxes on manufactures. At the same time that when these restricting duties,were first imposed, that he was talking of the Property .Tax, which w t the price of corn was lower, because the agricul- but temporary*, he laid a sort of permanent Income turist felt so much confidence, that he could afford Tax upon every establishment used for a in ati a nc . to sell it at a reasonable rate : and so it would be tory. He had local opportunities of knowing h am again. It had been said, that corn must be supplied this tax would press upon manufacturers, and healer 'to the community at a moderate price. Ile admitted knew what the manufacturers had reason to a, it ; but then it must be a constant supply. Taking the prehend.—He had had a conversation population of Great Britain and Irelatidotl7,ooo,ooo, ' two days ago with a very eminent spinner, who and supposing 12,000,000 to eat bread, and the other had gone over to France to examine the state of their five to eat other sorts of corn, would it be said that the manufactories. 'filet gentleman had assured him, whole nation could not, cow:minibus annis, be made t that upon comparing the machinery in France (- independent of foreign nations? But then came the spinning cotton with that used in England, the fret, question of 755. He was of opinion that the House machinery, upon the whole, was better. The ma. ought not to have token up the subject last year, chinery was there recently established; and all tie because sufficient information had not then been ob. recent improvements were introduced • whereas tained ; but since he had seen the restrictions which I many establishments in England they did not make had been imposed by France and other countries, it use of the recent improvements. It was true that we was important that no farther time should be lost.— were superior in the finer sorts, but it might betted; The great opposition seemed to be made by the city said upon an average, that their mechanilr, for spit of London ; and he was willing to acknowledge that ning cotton was equal to oar's. It .red been said k the country had always derived considerable benefits' argument, that if this measure did not pass, we wea ld from that great city. In the present Corporation, lat some times be deluged with French' corn, reel however, there were same persons for whom he did other times be in danger of being started, fl ee ,! not entertain much respect, when he considered the , it happen, however, that all the rimiest countries, purposes to which they occasionally lent themselves.l the world had been at all times commercial and corn. Great misconception hart prevailed on this subject; importing countries? Some of those Gent ells who and people in general did not seem to care where the , feared that we shooed be deluged with feistier, corn, corn came from, so that they could be supplied with i at other' times said that the whole nay of England it. It might, however, be useful to remember, that would not be sufficient to bring hole • core e•igrege the poet.' of the Romans was destroyed by this very for the consumption of this ceontry . Those twe Ne e wish of hiivieg cheap bread. They were furnished nions could not well be reenaceled in point of con. gra , uitously at first by their demagogues, and then sistency. He should beg leave to read an estract by their Emperors; and as long as they could pro- ! from a mast able work g it the external corn trade, I; cure corn from Sicily and Egypt, the protection of Mr. Torrens. As the don. Itepreseutative for GI, the rusticorums mascula proles," the just pride of gets , had once changers his opining, on this sohje, every nation, was neglected. In the time of Nero, he thought that if he would per.•%e this hook, this mighty people, who. had conquered the world, • might probably change it again. The exeact 112.1 came to desire nothing more than "pram,: et air- substance, 66 that Providence, by makito; corn of censer." How was it possible that the agriculture of certain bulk that was not easily exported, hard in t this country could hear a competition with the agri- been the best Legislator, and that we alight not culture of France dr Flanders? The ports of those overturn its wise• regulations." He coesidered countries lay fully as conveuieut for the London ; most imprudent at a time when the Frets!h eau d get market as the ports of•Nerfolk, or even Essex. To cotton without any restriction, for our Gavel-einem his own kilo N ledge there wore farmers within 25 to lay a duty of three pence a pound on what came' miles of the metropolis, that could not sell their • foreign ships, and a penny a pound on What came corn at all. The miller would not buy a grain of it ißritish. As to the actual number of the populatis while they could he supplied with foreign corn. If employed in agriculture and manufactures, he cool( the city f London was to be fed entirely on foreign not say ; but as to the relative population of differevi corn, it would probably have the effect of making ! districts, he knew that the manufacturing districts corn cheaper for a few years, but in the end it would creased much more rapidly in population. lie shoM entirely put down the agriculture of tt ' kingdom.— first instance the agricultural county of Rutland, Some corn land might. hdeed, .be laid down for where the population had decreased front 18,000 to pasture, but a great part of it would soon bearceu.ll6,ooo inhabitants. As to the county of Norfolk, vied by thistles and brambles. If, then, we were which had certainly been brought into a very high state to he entirely dependent on France for supply, al of culture by the exertionrearld clam* of an Hos. war with that country, a failure of her crops, or Gentleman, a Member of that House (Mr. Coke ) many other circumstances might reduce us to the the population in 1800 had beeo 282,895, and in most distressing situation. France, without corn. year 1816 it was but '291,900 which was an increase merce or manufactures, had very nearly conquered of but 9,000. He made his calculation on the sup the whole of Europe, and some time or another she i position of five inhabitants to every house, but " might perhaps try it again. He hoped that this proportion would be he same on any other cake would not beahe case, but still he would ask whether ; tion. In the county of York, in the year 1690, any man that had an English heart could bear the population was 601,260, whereas the meow. pope idea of deriding upon France for the means of silk- I beiou was 978,559. This increase he supposed sistence? He was at first for the importation price ! have arisen from its being a manufacturing digtre being fixed at 765. instead of 80s.; but it was upon Tile West Riding of. Yorkshire alone (which was the supposition that there would be a graduated most manufacturing pert of it) contained as gran scale of duty rising from the price of 765. up to per- population now•as all Yorkshire did in the year 1690. haps 90s. He thought that the averages, as they It certainly appeared to him that the best and fairest were now taken, did not give sufficient advantages practicable way to relieve the landed interest from ' to the farmer, and that we should rather take them pressure of which they now complain, would be, higher titan the lower rate. He was, upon the had been proposed by his Hon. Friend (Me. Baring) whole, never more strongly convinced of the pro. I to take a scale that should be gradually diminishing, priety and necessity of any measure, than of that lentil things had time to come down to their nature' now before the House. It /meld have the greatest • level. The agriculture of this country materially di effect in restoring confidence to the apiculturel in. pended upon our commerce. The gains of commerce terest, and he could not see how returning confi. I naturally sought • that security in land which tar deuce would have the effect of raising the price of; only could give. It did not appear to him that Si, bread. As lie thought the measure might be produc.lierious injury could result to any body from adopting live of much good, and could do no harm, lie should that gradual decrease proposed by his Hen. Friel support the Resolutions. Mr. BANKES entirely agreed with the genera, Mr. PIM-IN thought that the Right Hon. propositions that had been laid down' on both sidL Gentleman Ind by no ne.aris made it out dint the se- that the interests of commerce and manufactures curity of the country depended en this measure. He were so closely connected with those of agriculne did not appear to him to have brought any thing like that the one could not be depressed without injurit proof of this fact. He had, indeed, spoken about the other; and that the enemies of either were sub the people of ancient Rome, who, in their fondness stantially the enemies of both. HP conceived, ho- for cheap bread, had given themselves up to dema- ever, that the circumstances in which the count► gogues, and had their liberties overturned. It did had been so long placed, had brought on such a atm not, however, appear, how the liberties of the people of things, that it was impossible now to avoid don of England were to be overturned from the cheap- something to encourage the cultivation of the rout ness of bread. Corn was already raised in price, and try. He had but few Gentlemen to contend wits he could see no reason for passing a Bill to augment radically upon that principle. It seemed to be vat the price still further. It had been said that it was vernally confessed, that it was essentially neeessar allowed on all sides of the House that some regula- to"do something. The Honourable Gentleman %v lions were now necessary. If he admitted that any spoke last, as well as another Honourable Gentlemal regulations were now required, it was on account of (Mr. Baring), were both agreed that somethit the extraordinary circumstances in which the country ought to be done for the protection of the farmer had been placed in the late war, which had given the but what they proposed fur his protection was soma monopoly of the home market to the home growers thing that every year was to be less of a protection. of corn. This was an unnatural state of things and was finally to vanish away altogether. The of which required alteration. It would have a . destruc- ject of the present measure was certainly to give con live operation as he thought, upon our manufac- fidence to those who otherwise would not have it.. tures. An Honourable Gentleman had said, that As our legislation was in almost every thing else 6 let us do what we will, France would still rival us a permanent nature, he could not see why in this s o in marinfactures; the Netherlands and Holland stance only it should be-of a temporary nature. - A! would rival us. If that was the true state of the case, to the book which had been so highly praised by I; ought ee to do any thing that would give France, Honourable Gentleman who spoke last, and of whirl the Netherlands, and Holland, nn advantage over us he had read an extract, he had certainly not tete in this rivality ? A great deal had been said about this that hook ; but if the remainder was like what hr country being dependent on France for subsistence; been read to the House [a laugh] lie really did nt but he believed that the fact was, that the imperta. think it would have much dint in changing the opt 0. nic ths COl Cot r. 0113 rr sa lie OW I sp int or sir do so ir e it be do he sp la. er re. tlr as ie k in. th ie of of me me ti ho eir for ne. tie io the Me irly I in ald at lid ie rn. rh o rn, tad Igh pi. nn. ract , by he If a tact to I it get rent oia !in lion )uld rent sin. Altl tod, ) to )Ik,, tate los. he), 'the the ala. the to ict. the at 340. rest the , as 1 S), ing, oral de. rrce and any tirsg id. rral les, !Wei Ire, tug ab. )w. try tate , ring I' on. rith rni- a ry rho man ing er : re. on f ob. on- ! of As the ieh esd had not '1)1' , . k