The Statesman. — London, England, 1820-05-17 00:00:00

I Uo ~. combination and conspirsce. He asked if the meet- I it; of the Ilith of Auras: vrottki hare taken place if Manchester had not been a mat of iranafactores; but the agriculturists were wintered over the country, anti LA not the. same opportunity to meet in large nem btrs, which seldom Sl:retied but at a lonelier or a fair. 9lhe; incettrchirpi. • of the mant.facturing..sits:on thin" iliousands of art 7 rans might be deprived of eriploy*et by . . trifling change in the article of f.J. Abu/a— -itanityr trade also nr.,:ht belimt e t,r hut tip Ay nar..ce own:tips), regulations, against which we iii past.the - tight of remonstrance. As to the.origin of She •Ittaesit.. distress. it did not trommenee•with the peace, nor sr.! , aitog.ther eau: dby thet event. Ily ratfmence to the Journals of Abe Other Hoes", it would Ce focri.l, t.^.lt. s o me year before the ten:nil:it/on of the war, there had teen. petitions (Nail isncheue-, coniplaining of the depression of trade. But the war } tad given Wade a false stimulus; it had nitiltipliel Wild and visionery speenintion, commencing in de' .- 410% and carding le disappointment. lhoutls in the public documents the balance of exports seemed in favour of the country, /et from part beinc captured, and part never sold, and others never 'raid (or, the balance of payment You really against the country. The Noble Lard thee.made some obserration• enn the c7ntinental system, showing how precarious was the svarre of wealth, which a nation derived from stir plying others with articles of manufacture, as wis Clown b the consequences of Napoleon's bi-ekede Be then proceeded to eulogise the character and habits of a population essentially agricultural. Such a po pulation was the real ?basis of the prosperity and power of a nation. They were also distinguished by their attachment to the laws, their moral feelie;te and Jai-laity—and they were, the-efor4., peculiarly deserving cl justice and protect - on. He declared the Corn Laws , to•be just and nettess try ; but lie denied that they were Aslant merely as a protection fur agriculturi ti, as was talsely and malignantly stated in a baok which he had read with disgust, and which said that the Corn Bill was a tax on the first necessaries of life, laid on by lend-owners in order to raise their rents. This was false, becans.; the riches of proprietors (lid not rise from a high rent, butitoni rent, compared with the value of money, the stale of taxation, and other dream- Stances. The Corn Bill was so framed that it protected the country from all danger of absolute fini:ne in an unfavourable season; and even allowed of such a supply, when corn became dear, as would prevent it losingat any time excessive. Unless there was a ;to toe ing duty, no corn would be sown, and then it could to: be procured by goods, which other nations would cot take, nor by the precious metals, which we had he:.. The Noble Lord then remarked upon the frier tore of the poor rates, the amount of which was, at present, half as much again as the whole expense of .the Civil Establishment in 1792. If no effectual Mindy was devised against their further increase, the restiequence would be, that the.produce of lands would loe Proportieued out of the poor, in conformity with es doctrines of the Spenceans. It was a great and growing evil, and demanded a remedy. He then pro leaded to animadvert upeu the conduct of Osivenitumn, Assarha6, in a sessoisof peace and eucessive gibe three millions to the burdens of the country, ',high was groaning under a load of debt. After a PO more observation& relative to the state of the cutrenCy, as affecting prices, he proceeded to say, t . t.at his plan for the employment of the poor did not contemplate any thing merely temporary. It was to afford permanent relief—not like the employment on pilolie roads and public works; it was to furnish them With the' means of settled subsistence, and render Wein independent of parochial relief. •He was aware that amoral plans had been proposed for the perms lent employment of the poor, none of which were saftsfaetery. This was not exactly the same as any _el !ham.. 1t Mr. Thornton had an institution for the 'aolsoufgetere by the poor of certain articles, which ettimit be possibly applied to the improvement of work keeps. He then observed upon the design of calti *in the waste lands at Dartmoor, and said, that ~.• • 't of a plea of this kind depended upon the ,of its general priaeiples. It might be succeeded at Dartmoor, would succeed ,di.% 'bet that argument wail,• in his apprehen "Weer. He approved of cultivation by • sere tpirie, etidie thought a spot of ground would not te the worse cultivated because the produce was not to aria to a market, but to be coasemed by him who col tasted it. There was another circumstance which he wr'ld mentioa, namely, that the imprudent marriages of Vito poor were the .result of their present distressed umeilitioa. If the poor man were placed in a com fortable situation, there would be a moral restraint to seek an engagement ; but whea the poor man saw no elfarpeospect but misery, that restraint was removed, aolLie kilt that his condition in life,•though it might is altered, could not be injured by marriage ; • but, in titter eiteations, among the middle and higher classes eiCkatietjr, men felt that they had happinees to lose, loaf were therefore not wiliest" gas to retard it. The Jliebie Lord made some allasions to the employment of dot peer in the fisheries, but in so low a tone of voice 'that we could not collect his observations. The last psi* upon which he should say a few words was the faqemlbstlan of machinery, which had tended so coil aiaershly to Aggravate the public distress, by driving maid employment se many Individuals, and which east be. stated by the papers on their Lordships' table twins at the causes of public distress. He mold not *OW espial■ what he assent than by a reference to wk. the situation et the cavalry was 40 years ago; thpt.part sof is. et least, with which he was acquainted, • sliktrimehire. Wage, were them six shillitigs a-week, poi it the•preseht time they were increased to seven. Afillittltse.erllfing an, increase of wages, and the immense Amiteho-0 1 monafitoture, was it to be supposed that the =Mid enjoy nay Shin like eomfort? If mane . *aware to be eneouraged, they should net Jloo. eptieueigeol• at the expense a agticelture. He that they might be food serviceable ty *somstermaaufaetertes, but he questioned such Jarsitirewasal Milky. Ms was aware that the 'Object sera 411416 . 114. bat I. felt that it was too important to age" st &liar. it embruted thtir best intermits, and appeal~ he was sum, with confidieee, to the ft if that avast 4asseahly. To-their to- Aspiej, tea % soot **Nag. be tweltded his preposition, datt it would meat with due co .lle4hgeld thps(ete elev.) for the uicul ;W rls. r 114 meet of a Committee, to propose . affprdia, ' perreattent employment to the eau:, i....rttcularly lathe manufacturing districts. ~ .elliosid-LIVBHPOOL ild-sot rise tot the purpose of considering the various important totters brought before the consideration of the flousitilty the Noble , kortl.who had just addressed them. 'I o cuter imola i their consideratier would in fact amouet to an exami nation of the first principles of pali!ical ocoitomy ; it would be to take a view of C.. if. appiication to Ow agricoltorm manufactures. arid contuter.e, not only t.f this but of every other country. He must, however, thank the Noble Lord for the candour whtth h^ had sown in bringing the su!tject forward upon -ticls oroends, that his object am eared to be what it really, was—tomake the couniryeleerent ie all respects trout 1 its for4loldlantion. It wan upon that ground that he could Pot misses' to the 'lnotioe. ile felt that in brineine forward that m .d.:41 tee Noble Lord was as anxious as himself to pro.eco. she benefit of the coon- try; and sorry w.ts he to say, that with the exception i of the sentiment whit it actuated him, he was compelled to sire his entire anti unqusiified dissent to the whole proposition which had been brought before them; a :fro po•iiion as fatal as it wes injurious,calculated whiteouts ant' promote the interest• of sericulture Igloo the very ruin of their manufactures. tio for ore would never give his consent to seep a proposition; te felt and nets rrsua;tra that the existence of the one el-prioicei upon the other; and the unless they. bosh finurif tird there would little adeatearre arise from the tenaperery sure riotiry of either. Where was the manufacturer who did not look forward, if not in his own life-time, at least during the lives of kb; heirs, to vest his property in :and it Who did no! bilk forward to such a proepert an his best security ? He should rot then trouble their Lordships with going into the eultjeet, but he must say a few words respecting the remark of the Noble Lord upon the eneouracement that ebotaid he given to fish eries ; and he conlil assure the Noble Lard that it was a subject which had occupied a eonsiderahle sha.e of the attention of Minister , ; but if the NW& Lord could throw any new lights u tom t he subject-411ee could show hop a !totter sent iv of fish could li? procured, aid a better market csothliehe.l, for that wee a !rain enn sitlerati;.n---f be could show how these ohjOets could he effected, he should be very happy to receive such information, .and he world unquestionabre give it due consideration. He doubted eery much whether Any inquiry would prodnor such beneficial reselts ; but he had said so much, be. .trio the eecsure of the No ble Lord appeared to him to be founded aron notion act. gether erroneous. On the subject of reclainting waste lands, ev;:ich had been adverted to hy the No hie Lord, they had many pinns before them ; but he doubt , d the eepediency °fatty mete are for such a pure pose. They bad frequently tried it in localities, such SS the inclining of ground for an hospital, or a similar purpose, but they could uut thus convert the whole of the waste lambi of England. A great deal of capital had been employed upon wa.o • lands, and those who were much conversant with agricaltural district, ktiew that the temptation of high p ices had 'utilised Many iai viduals to embark a considerable dead of pcopetty,..in sash spesalatious , but he believe* that airy west thee very generally convinced that such money was ill ap plied. And it was at the public expense too that the Noble Lord required that thousands should be culti vated, thousands which were unworthy of the labour of an individual were to be tilled at the expense of the public. He would ask the House, then, whether they were prepared to admit such an inquiry ? If ever there had been an itnitrovement te Melt tended to the ad vancement of the country, which accelerated her pro- I gress in arms and in commerce, the invention of ma chinery was that improvement. It bad been arms anti legs to the maimed, and almost sight to the blind. It hall been the source of all :heir power, and wealth, and opulenu, and it had cnablcdthe country to cone pee with anti surpass all the nations if Europe. When an Ettglishmao looked around hint, Mid surveyed the nations of• the earth ; when he saw tlin east, west, north, and south, superior in climatic in sell, and in all the bounties of nature, to what collhl be attributed those blessings which he so pre-eminently enjoyed, but to the superior energies of those mighty minds who had devoted their lives and labours to the improve ment of machinery. It was to such men as Mr. Watt, Mr. A rkaright, and air. Holton, that they owed much of their present superiority in the scale of nations. But even if they were willing to throw aside the ad vantages of machinery, it was quite impossible that they could so retrogade in civilisation as to be able to effect that object. With such feelings, therefore, on the subject, he could not concur in the present mutton; he was unwilling, at the same time, to treat it with an unjust p:ejueiice, and should, therefore, move the previous question. Lord STANHOPE replied briefly and in general terms ; After which, the Noble Earl's motion was superseded by the previous question.—Adjourned till to-morrow. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Tvrizur, MAT 16. The SPEAKER infornted the House that be hid received a second letter from Mr. &itchier, contain ing the farther names of Gentlemen who were willing to serve as Commissioners in Ireland, under the •Itdl of George 111. Leave was given to bring in a Bill to allow Mr. Tomkvns, engraver, to dispose of his collection of pictures and paintings, together with the British Gallery, by May of lottery. Lord TEMPLE presented a petition front the own ers and occupiers of land in the county of Bucking ham, signed by nearly 400 persons, complaining of the distressed state of agriculture, alid praying for relief.—Ordered ee lie on the table. Mr. R. SMITH presented petitioms M the MIMI -ef fect from Newport Pagnel and otberipiims.—.oedered to lie on the table. Mr. S. WOKTLEY presented lit fin* the inerchaats and inanufasterers of Ha praying for a repeal of the wool duty,—Ordered to lie on the table. Mr. D. W. HARI'EY gave notice, that on Friday Next he would move far an aezount of the number of Writs of Error allowed by the Coelhor daring the last three years. A new welt Inc °rend to MAW'S, the borough of Athlone, to-elect a Itepreseatali* IS the room of Oliver Join 40•Cliatoelt, R 4 who hie moved the yin of- aiehaliet . of Messier. 6TATENatAN. Lord E. SOMERSET presented a petition from the wool-manufacturers of the county of Gloucester, pray ing far he repeal of uuty on woul.—Ortie;ed to tie on the table. Lord ALTHORPE presented several petitions from the Owners and tkeitpiers of Land in the county of Northampton, romplaistine of the distressed state of a ; :riculture, and praying fm an tinjuiri on the subject. —Ordered to lie on the table. Sir C. COCKERELL presrweil a similar petition from the inhabitants of a parish in Herefordshire, as did also Mr. NEVILLE, from several pats ui the county of Bucks.—Ordered to lie on the table. Mr. DUODALE presented a si:uilar petition from the Owners and Occupiers of Land in the county of Warwick.—Ordered to lie on the table. Lord STANLEY presented a petition from the Ma nufacturers of lterwtek-upon.i heed,prayiog fur a Re peal of the Duty on Wool ; and a petition to the same effect was presented from the Manufacturers of the county of Lancaster.--Ordered to lie on the table. lhe Stage Coach Dill was read a third time anti passed, after sundry clauses %Tr.! agreed O. Mr.LITTLETON gave notice, that he wocid, on Thursday, the Ist of June, mire fur leave to brine in a Hill for the Regulation of Labourers' Wakes. Sir T. ACLANO pr^sented a Petition from the Owners and Occupiers of Land in the county of Devon, praying fur legally into the state of the Corn Laws. — Ordered to lie on the table. The Marquis of TAVISTOCK presented a similar Petition from the Owners and Occupiers of Land in the rouitty of Medford.—Ordered to lie on the table. Sir T. ACLAND then presented a petition from the Ma,itster , and Brewers of Tiverton, praying for an alteration in the Corn Laws.—Ordered toll( on the table .--.. . . Sir J. NEWPORT g ave nntiee of a motion for Thursday. the 25th inst.,relatiec t u Me' iMI in Inland. Air. BEAUMONT prtsented a petition from the Owners and Occupiers of Land in ttae county of Nor thimberland, of a 'huller mature to those already i re sented.--Oldered to lk on ‘ the table. On the outbid of Mr. LUSIIINCTON. the House tec lp resolved itself into aCm omit r , on the Acts lathe to the Customs; sad lease was 'ten to bring in a Bill for making ..otue alterati , ws *a n .. Mr. BROUDEN brought up the ite!,.trt, which was received, and the several resoltatiot.s a.:-.3.d to. Fat' Yews. Mr. FIN LAY presented a petition from the Directors of the Chamber of Commerce of tilasgow, pra)ittg for s free trade, and the remota: of nil re s trictions upon townie:cr.-Ihr lion. Member, in the course of some observations, drip veered the impolitic system of re striction, which had been pith. re" coutinued, and maintained that c%ery unnecessary restraint ought to be done away with. As au instance cf the han.ship which such a system gave rise to, he adverted to the superior advantage* enjoyed I, y the Atm ricau m r eliant with. regard to the trade to Chloe and the East Indies, as compared with those possesied by the Bri tish merchant, who could wet engage• in any twos, commercial enter; rise, without having previously eon- formed nab al: the minute regulations established by the East India Company. He then proceeded to ob serve, that Parliament could remove all injurious re rest ridions, without in any way trenching on the rights an,i privileges of that Company. To those who argued that a fro• trade was a line theory, hut one which could never be carried into pra.oice, he would say, that the experiment was wirth trying; and he was convinced that the principirof a free trade might be ad; pted, I without the violation of any national or corporate rights. Nur did he see how the extension of that principle could possibly prejudice the interest of the British ship owner or merchant. The lion. Member next adverted I 4* the topics which had bet& treated on a former night by Mr. Baring and other Members, and dwelt parti cularly on the hardships of extents in aid, maintaining that it was most unjust for any individual to avail him self of a government security to despoil a man of his property. But of all the impediments to the interests ' of trade and commerce, there was not one which had so injurious an effect as the Usury Laws ; and these be was most anxious to see either altered entirely, or al least modified in a Manner suitable to the necessity of the occasion. The Bankrupt Laws also required revision; and he should besides observe, that au ex periment might advantageously be made with regard to the principle of a free trade, by exempting some particular articles from duty, and then it could be ascertained how far it might be expedient to extend or confine the system. The subject to which he next ; called the attention of the House, referred to the pros perous state of foreign commerce, as compared with ours, and he insisted, that unless some alteration was made, we could not possibly compete with the rapid advances made by the nations of the Continent. On the question being pat for receiving the petition, Mr. BARING rose. and made some observations. He Paid it would be impossible for this country to ar rive, ever again, at that degree of success, with regard to commerce, which it bad attained during the war. Yet he did not therefore agree in the gloomy anticipa tions of his lion. Friend. ToAtus general ; rinAple, however, as urged by his Hon. Friend, be entirely as dented ; and from what he could learn, he had heat given to understand, that acting upon it would not in any respect interfere with the interest of ship owners. He had had himself a communication with several of them on this subject, and the only point of difference between them was respecting the timber trade. After some tinker observations from the Hon. Member, the petition was read, and ordered to lie on the table. Mr. BROUGHAM said, he held in his hand a pe tition from the 01/11411 and Occupiers of Land in the ) parish of Winebelsea. He wished it, however, to be understood, that he did not by any toeing agree in the 'prayer of the petition, as it not only called for the repeal of the Act relative to Corn, but desired to im pose a duty on the importation of all foreign grain. Hewss ready to admit, however, that the subject ought to be taken into consideration, so far as regarded the averages which had been Axed. It was necessary that there should be a clear understanding in this parti cular, and whether the average was to remain at 80s. or brought down to 705., there ought to be a more perfect arrangement made to give effect to it than •at present existed. The petition was then nod, and OP dread to lie on the table. Lord MILTON presented a 'Unlike petition iron a parish is Yorkshire.—Laid on toe Wait. - • The Nuh!e Lord solid, he wished to take that o l 'p, l tiani*v fur fixinz the thy on which he sloould brinemi liO‘ Motion for the repeal Of the Wool Tax, in c i ,„ ;t. pience of his 11-.vitor postponed it from the api o ' ll4 dav at the instance of the Chancellor of the Exchetple, After a short conver•ation between the Noble 1 4 ,i and Lord CASTLIMEAGH as to the day that woutio, most convenient, the motion was ordered to stead h i Friday Mr: ilitol.6llllM postroir I a 'swim) of wki t i he had given itut:re, till Thursday fortuiiitt ($4., saderstood). ORITIBIII Mr. ILt%KES presented a petition from the Trashes of the British Alusenn t , praying float a furth er s tuight he t; ranted th.nt in support of that institstist —Ordered t j lie ws th e to The Hon. Member then snored for the usual sanal, Account of the Expenditure of the British Mom for tl.e year INI9, and also an Account of the o ft necessary to meet the charges of the year MO". Ordered. .fr. K. :th, from the British Muvum, appeared* iht bar with tirse Accounts, which were unlerodip he on the tahle. Mr. ELLIS, in presenting a ; etitirn against del Wool Tar, from a torn t1: ~ • North (the name st which e•e 4:ill not di , tinetly hear), too!; occasion, advert to the petitions for a free tr.ole, which had beta submitted to the House front the Cityy. of London and olive places, as well as that whidi had been just pre sented from the Merchants of Glasgow. It was Mt for him to urge any arguments 'Toe the necessity. of removing all restrictions on commerce, as that subject hail already been discussed by parsons who were muc► more competent to the task than himself; yet he tuight at the same time he permitted to observe, that the sensation which 'lad been atmkencil cn the subject t.:a likely to he ureductive of the greatest benefit. 7 tie allsgn•;u;s set forth in the petition which he was now to present, roufinw•d ail the aq-uments shich had been it .eel in favour of au alter stism of the existing system; and the petit:on itself had originated in the spirit wl•ich gave rise to the others that preceded it. I he petitioners stated the grievous hardships 011,h they were ohligeil to endure from tile depreciation of j articles, shirk h.•fore were sold dt a price that left a I . :sir end r••ason:tble profit: and they respectfully sub -1 witted, that unless some change was in .de, inevitabie ruin most be the necessary consequence. The hest rt meth- for this crcat evil, they believed to he the re moval of tho•e restraints o !deli crippled and embar rassed tra.:e in ever• department : and though they p.,rtienlarly dr.ired the rei, .1 of 'Amok!: ore wo,l, rapeseed, and foreign corn, they werfrikewtse anxious thut the p:inciple should be extended to the duty o■ other articles.—The petition was then read, and or sieved to He on the OW. •LPCCTIONI IS Till MILITART ESTABLIPHIMINT. l'olonel DAVIS rose, in pursuance of notice, to bring his motion upon this subject under the coosideration of the House. He klt th a t he laboured under peer . liar disadvantages is bringing forward this question, because, however the necessity of economy might ' e admitted, still, as there were tunnv is that House who saw causes for alarm in the state of the country, he feared that they might he prejudiced against any thing\ that would weaken the means of defence which the Government bad at its disposal. But as he did not intend to propose any de fi nitive measure for reducing the e ffi cient military force, he hoped that the friends of economy would give bins their assistance in pro moting an inquiry which could do no mischief, but might produce essential benefit to the community. The state of the finances was such, that it was high time for every public man to come forward who thought be could propose any arrangements which might tend to improve them; for whatever shape the distresses of the country assumed, at the bottornof all astern would be found, as their cause, the disordered condition of the finances. The immense weight of tuxedos which they required, oppressed the mercantile spirit of the country, which otherwise would have Lund new channels of enterprise as soon as the old ones ' were closed up. From these considerations it was that lie wished to direct the attention of the Hesse to the military establishments of the country. He had devoted' much labour to the inquiry, atid the sere he examined them the more was he surprised in every department to see such an extreme want of seamy, and the greater necessity he perceived for Parliatmetary interference. It would, perhaps, be offered as an ob jection in the outset, that there was no raison to call for the Select Committee which he meant to propose" since the Finance Committee bad already fully inves tigated the subject. To the Gentlemen who sat es that Committee he meant to offer no offence, bet be must sap, that from all their Isthmus so one mins tageossqwmessure ha I as yet emanated. If then it should 'be said that the matter ought to be left to the executive Government, he would answer, that it ought not, for he agreed with hit Noble Friend who opened the debate of last night, that the duty of reduclag any of the existing establishments ought sot to Is committed to the Government. Their NM rail depended too much upon th4Ment of thdillidlils• age, to allow it to be exOlited tbht reduce that patronage if they could poses it.--(Hear, hear !)---] hey showed no disposal* towards economy, as was manifest from Ire meat which bad recently taken place; he HO of the Governor of Gibraltar. Here was as sloilaih was neither more nor less than a simmer., aid tai the recommendation of a former Committee of Hi House that that office should be abolished, it winery when expected that when it should becomes moat it would not be filletiesp. Yet the late illustriom p••• lessor of it bad scarcely ceased to exist than the Bier was given to a person whose priacipal merit was. 1b 22 he had a milkery command is the fatal expedillex to Walcheren. Indeed, so rapidly was the appointment made, that the same Messenger who carried oat the intelligence of the demean bf the late Gentiver. Was also the bearer of the iofeemstioa as te the appointment of the successor. It was his daily * propose a Select Committee to examine into the week of the military expeditors. He tread stew Mom* rate a few hews, to show that peat wasp milbe.a. made; had if hi could emceed is -Worlds, owl HlP hers with chitlins ae to the w :rift sadile alida r d I each an enamiaathea, he tsearr dos is bed ............maw&aft iseihriiiirsige NOW et MI obiert