The Statesman. — London, England, 1821-02-22 00:00:00

Pr. ~ makes into divisiope which would feed ::iiteteat branchee'of employment. This !node In which the, Lordships could hot a remedy to the present distress. New inents whipti it was necessary to remove, respect to our Foreign Trade, the restrictions under jkl Ilieheerede _and with respect to otu House Trail* the taxes which it had to pay, and each of %said& the slat dt a legisladve restriction on aelinftwit l capital. It was true that tile dimitm-' tion of ta:ces belotiged more ptoperly to • the other Mime ; but he trusted that it would never be foreign their•Loediehips how to make sac% reductions to 7 , 11110 Te dist:ars. The mistaken policy of this country Wad led to flee enactment of a great number of legit. tatkeiesitietions which produced the same effect upon ieir Fairies Trade, as taxes did upon our Home 'eroe. That was an unnatural state, and one to or he whaled more immediately to call t attention of thole Lordships. The difficulty Mt hot consist in asserting general principles, but if, the mode of prorldlog for their application.— _Cannel it was easy tor Parliament to obtain the tidiest assertion of general principles. the moment they arrived at a particular application, they trwt tin (alerted resistance from some external interests which .tatted up to oppose it. lie well knew that science had made such progress within the walls of that 'Wise as to prevent the triumph of those interests, if the subject wit treated with sufficient attention, sad measures went not sometimes passed as matters of coarse, after they had received the sanction of another heanch of the legislature. This reminded him of seisat had been said on a former occasion, when it was propeeed to grant a loan to Austria, which she bad hut. yet returned. A distinguished individual hail then observed, that he might apply to the character given of the House of Austria, what was said in the hst British- play respecting the differrnce between parsons of fashion and the vulgar, that vulgar persons *rabble(' about terms, but persons of fashion never squabbled about terms, but did nut care how they kept them. When it was proposed to carry general prineples into effect, all interests rose up and contend el ter themselves, except the unfortunate consumer, un whom the weight ultimately fell. It was to the jetties' of the consumer, unquestionalily, that that Hoist was bound to attend to in preference to all °tiler interests. But in all great changes which might he Made, the !form must take care that they should be • gradually effee_ted. There were innumerable preambles to acts of Parliament imposing restrictions Arm trade; our commerce had flourished in spite of them, not by means of them, and would attain greater prosperity by their rejection. On those ground.; he should propose to revive the Committee of last year, to Inquire late the state of the Foreign trade. The question having been pnt, Lord ELLENROROUOII regretted that he should have occasion to differ with the Noble Marquis ; but he could not entertain the same views of the eff e ct likely to be produced on the existing distress by the redaction of taxes. if that Noble Marquis looked at Our present establishment, he wool(' see that the ut most practicable reductions could not be to such an awnonnt as to be Mt as a remedy. There was one mode, however, he conceived, of affording consider able relief. That mode consisted, not in the removal the taxes, but in their more equal sail appropriate distribution so as to press more lightly upon sna facnuturers. He might appeal, in support of Isis opinion to the Report of the Committee of last year on the Timber Trade. When such irregularities bad ban discovered in one branch of trade, he hoped there was no doubt but that if the same research were carried into the whole of our commercial system, msch a new arrangeustut and distribution of ditties might take place, as would afford efficient relief to manufacturers, without diminishing the receipts of the Treasury. The motion was then agreed to. and a Committee appointed. consisting of the same members as that of last year. HOME TRADE. ' The Earl of LIVERPOOL rose to move for certain! P TVS of which be had given notice. la doing yrs.! he din not intend to enter into any details respecting the general state of the country ; but he was anxious that both the Home and the Country should have be este them the means of forming a correct judgment : and if, after the information he had collected had been laid before them, more should still appear to be ne ioessary. be assured Noble Lords that they should hare every amistance 10%4 power to procure it. The re . search which he hail made, arose chiefly front what had passed on the first day of the Session, when he Lad expressed his opinion, that the existing distress Was in a great twasstre occasioned by excess of pro. auction ; wlsilatlse Noble Marquis opposite had con tended, that it proceeded front diminished cansemp titn. He had therefore been led to collect the best in . fatmadon which he could on the state of the constimp • lion of the country. With respect to the consumption • of - Bread, them was no means of obtaining correct in '. -1;v-elation. it was only of a general nature, conshoing eLioray of surmises founded on the importation or expor t ation of corn. flat there were means of closely ascertain. is the real coastumption of the country in almost every other article. Thalr'Lordships were aware that with -eteepect to the Excite, that great branch of the Revenue, ,•". the duties were taken on the quantity of the articles .1.. Consumed ter a certain 'Amber of years. subject, an ... 'ilaubtedly, to one qtrafilleation, smuggling , which in . • trotbreed articles which did hot fall within the Revenue. • • -Pit this gasification would not materially operate on the view of the Moe before the Committee; or if it del, .. Itl mast lead to an inference, that the 'consumption was -lit/fond what appeireiron the official returns. He hail 'tile satisfaction to 'state, that on a great number of ankles wu which he most relied, because front their . *attire, they were less exposed to fluctuation, there fruit an intivased consumption. Ile meant to call for s air Recreant or the Timothy of the several articles. ' seblehlt sheitlefterwards mention, on which Excise shut bad been Char&eldring the four years ending •th lantrary 18 , 24-:"Mtvitutphrison of the last year wittt the three pieesideV. Those articles should be, Nor, Candles,' Iffillete, 'TRW. and Skins, Jlalt, Pepper. Skit, Soip.. Forrlgir= Mote Tee, Toliar:al, and - *agar. lterwiliss" for the Palters, there might Ile mete - axe iu Metlag the genera' results on the 'lit% • bent articles: The lest article • then to which he • Irohlti 'Aireet* ese httelttlen at the. House was•that of t'Stritt*lnert The weeeego• . : venher of barrels on thities•wereleald in'Ese &fee years, 1911,1919, 71 7 7 - • next article mat that of Candles. - three last years was 79.810,409 cwt. Laet year the amoent wee 86,356,00 41 , making an increase of. abort' three williath. Coffee for the three lut years aver. aged 7;531,000 ; last yen then fM a Amine- ' tion. in this article to the antortat of 1541,000 bolls. Hides and. Skins. average of three years' 46,219,000 cwt. last rear 44 .7 02 . 000 • nsakhne a aboinution of LS 17.000. Malt, wetrage (Sr Ilia last three • years 23,299,000 quarters, lest • yet* . 24,511,000, making an increase of 1,222,000. Übe' and Rock Salt. for internal consumption, average three years, 1,936,000; last year 1,961.000, an increase of 45,000. Rock Salt fur exportatieo t , average of three years 861,000 ; last year 1,1110.00 11 1 Soap, average for three years 69,474,000 ; last year 7:1,7(19,01)0, making an increase or 4,291,000. Soft Soap, the average of the last three years 4,569,000; last rear 5,162,000, making an intense of 616,000. British Spirit., average of the last three rears 5,067,000; last year 6,575,000, making an lag' crease of 1.017,0110. Rum, average of the three 4362 years 2.791,0011; last year 2.754.01111, makieteett iii. PI 433,1100. Brandy. average of last three years 60641,1 t, last yew:, .1.048,1100, making an increase of 277,1010. Tea, average of last three years 22,166,000 ; last year 2'2,142,000; increase 356,000. Tobacco, Aversive of three years 11,847,000 ; last year 11,6-40,0410. Os this article there was a decrease ; and there was elan oleos Stool to the amount of 167,000. On all Foreixo Wines there was a diminution this year. The average of French II Ines for the last three years was 977,000; last year.ii i was 916,000; diminution 61,000. Wines not brought froft France. age of three Years 16,116.000; lest year 16,3110,000 ; diminution 2.146,000. On ('ape tine there was a diminution of e„146,000. Sugar committed in England al %. average of three years 3 1 117,1101Erwt.1 last year 3,413,0011; increase 296,000. I. rem all these statements it would appear, that with the esceptiottat Wine anal some few other articles, so far from any Mali notion havine taken place, there mate a oonsitiortble increase; and after this he would ark their IfisMi., ships what ground was there for suppdeing that thl was a dimintitien in the consumption of h:eall, ortdoi l l constituted the food of the great mass of the people, therefore he still persisted in maintaining that del, agrieulteral distresses did not arise from the decrease of consumption, but front an increase of production. Be knew very well that ilistres , existed in many parts of the country ; and he brought forward this state meet, as a consolinz fact to shew how impitiwilde it was that the comforts of the labourine classes cuttld have been diminished, if consumption hail inereased. Ile folly agreed with the Noble Mar quis, that there ought to be so alteration in the Corn Laws; and that such a measure could have no effect in relieving the distresses of the coun try ; bait he could not agree with those who MOa.. mended alterations in the laws relating to trade. Other, countries might be superior to us la some commercial regnlations ; but there was no dependence no their permanency; anal the great advantage which lids , country enjoyed above others was, that the petple knew what the laws were. whether good or buff; "Id he thought that frequent fluctuations in the laws of commerce were worse than long existing resleictions. With r:apect to agriculture, he believed that it Was in a great measure caused by the eirettuistatice u per. sons having, during the last years of the war, brought into enitivatinn great tracts of land which had never been destined for it ; and that, ton, at a great expense. There was another circumstance which contributed to the dist reux of our agriculture, hat it at as one which ought to excite congratulation instead of regret—he alluded to the improved agriculture of Ireland. Some years ago a very small portion of corn was imported from thnt country. Among this corn there was searely any wheat. In one year 58,000 quarters of wheat were imported ; hut last year die quantity was no less than 351,575 quarters. As to the collection of taxes, the effect of an alteration in the mode of collecting any tax, would be a diminution of produce, anal an increase of difficulty; and an attempt to alter the taxation on a large male, would increase the general distress of the country. Therm fore, it would be unwise to adopt any course OW should alter the general state of taxation, and praise that derangement which most be iroduetive of a gene ral derangement in the Revenue. lie cancluded with moving fur the papers to which he referred. The Marquis of LANSDOWN replied. lie assured th? House that at Birntieghaan and Olitagow, and other manufacturing places, there bad been a great dimine lion in the consumption of meat anti bread. The Earl of LIVERPOOL maintained that it was impossible to awertain the precise state of the cow sumption in any other way except by regular returns. such as hr then moved for ; and from the statements he had jest made, he had a right to conclude that as these material articles had increased, the consemption in general of other things bad also increased. Lord ERSKINE contended that the real rinse of all the distresses of the country was the destructive 'meta of war raraml en fur the last this tp fete. which hail created overgrown capitalists, who were now enjoying vast advantages oa the distresees of others. Bet the Noble Earl, Übe certain doctors, who would recommend to their patients, while in the last stage of life, to persevere in the use a the medi cines which they had long and ineffectually prescribed, weaned determined to adopt no remedy, but let the save systety go on under which all our calamities hail grown up. Ills Lordship uext adverted distressed state of our agriculture, and the enonnottl militant of the Poor-rates; to rentedy which the Legit lature never thought of devising any measure. TheW pernicious laws were swallowing up the whole agri cultural interests of the country. It was absolutely necessary to fix on some early day to take all the piu titions on the subject of agaritheral distress into consideratiou, with a view of adopting tome general system of relief. Lord KIND.--The Noble Earl opposite heti stated various causes, front time to time, for the distreis which affected the country. But now came the molt extraordinary cause of all, that of excessive preelec tion. Among the numerous follies of man kind which Swift had - held tip to ridicule, he had never touched on that of excessive peoducdon. This 'eras a fully .whkh Oo (Raliltee was ever (win Ito expose. it was well lusimet *that 111100 — of produce &yodel, ea liirallh`-` - . • is- of capital tiectssatifly . Bat it *as also wee kilo,. very considerable ilecreaseef esp. .ct be reasoned, wittiest fear of cots .t there mist also be a dormer a imp; anemias article of Han" he weld assure the House, that the decrease of the use of live is agri calture was inconceivable.—(lleac.)- 1 f It were tree that there had been an est:alive predate, heir Could it be retonctied with that Bret ? Again, ea yredere would bare caused an increase of labs*. Now if there had been as ieerease of labour, was it that the poor-rates had been - Increased to RAe present enormous amount? If there bad been sods h$ abundance of produce as had been states], was it enough to compensate fur die decrease of price ? If {hat had been the ease,' agriculture would not have suffered as It had. Beeeesive produce was sot the cause of the distress. The real cause of it was to be found in the twenty•live Feeds war--40eir)--and stow they must pay for it. But those by wharf it was proposed mast have well knows, that if It enabled them to pay the expense of the war without eecasioe lug say extraordinary remora at the time, that - Teve- Sure would he felt with ten-fold severity when the pe riod of returning ton legitimate currency wouldirrlie. When he saw a decrease of capital, and au increase sil t Population. le oosid not shut his eyes end say, that the cannery was not in a deteriorated stale. The milt effeemal core was economy. if Boveveneent coati. nned their present profusion, they became themselves the great cans?. of that distress. they be looked -it the want of control in the Treasury, at the increase of the whole Civil Establialitusat in time of peace, what it ought to have been reduced, tbe Noble. Earl might. prove what he pleased with hie papers, he(Lord King) was convinced, that the tree eanseef all these distrsostes i was the unbounded profusion of (Internment. The Earl of DARNLEY said he firmly believed . that no remedy proposed by the Noble sari could relieve the distresses of the country. The only remedy which could he adopted with effect was a diminution of taxes; for it was the taxes that pressed upon agriculture, and upon every other portion of the community. Feeling con. vitte:9l that the remedy of economy and retrenchment' must he adopted iu the cud, he thought the sooner we had recourse to it the better. Lord (MEV said he perfectly agreed with his Noble Friend upon th urgent necessity of adopting a system of retrenchsnent and eronotny. He had come down to that House in the Imps. of hearing some satisfactory proposal from the Noble Earl opposite, but unfortunate• ly he mast depart without that satisfaction. He (Earl tilrey) hail no await that the retnrus produced were pee fectly correct; but he had seen too many instances In which different conclusions were drawn by thesanse person from the same premises. However he would not at present enter into an examination of details t be would confine himself to a very few general °Werra- Amis. The question was, whether the comforts of the nation had increased. Now, was there any man its or ont of that Hong, who could deny that the deepest distress existed throughout the country. The 4ticult.uist, the Merchant aid the Manufacturer, were tag eetbplaininy t and if they looked to that sae)anchely criterion, the poor-rates, they would find a most fright ,fl increase. Were they to be told then, that because au lacrosse had taken place in some branches of the Es .eise, the general distress was therefore lessened ? Muck hail been said respecting increase of production; but he did not believe the existence of such increase. He found that the last years's crop was rather under than over the average ; and that the farmers were so distressed, they were very generally unable to pay their rent. Take the two causes together. In crease of consumption should bring increase of de mand ; yet it was clear that agriculture, commerce, and manufactures languished. Notwithstanding the general statements of the Noble Earl this was the fact ; and the cause was to be found in the burthens which were imposed upon the people. bet the ease be turned and shifted ever so much this would be found to be the cause. A debt had been contracted, which it was impossible to pay in proper eitrrencr (Hear !) With respect to this debt, it had been said, that there must he no breach of faith with this public creditor. He was one who should consider a breach of faith as a great national evil; but he eoeld not forget that the debt in question was contracted to support a scandalous profusion of the public money.—(hear. hear.) —He had no wish to exaggerate the present evils, but he would not deny that he contemplated the present system with dismay and horror ; for he conceived we were in a state worse than that of France before the Revolution ; in a state which had then been emphati cally described to be " the verge of bankruptcy." There *tot no chance of averting this impending calamity but by placing the tiovernment on the surest basis, the affec tions of Ilse people.—(Hear, hear.)—To gain those affec tions their Lordships should insist upon the correetiott of abuses. A fter all the privations which the nation had suffered with such exemplary patience, they had a right toespect this line of conduct from the tiortrawstist and he was perstnuted that it was the waat of sash, lino of conduct which had alienated the affection& stf the prople.—(Hear, hear. hear:) —The motion was than agreed to. The Queen's Annuity Bill wetlt through a Gino'keg ; and the Howe then adjourned. lIOUSE OF COMMONS, Fun. 11. • ". S. : Lard ALTHORP brought op the Report of the Committee appointed to try the merits of a Petition against the return for the Borough of lioNion, in York shire_ The Cotutuittee declared that the sittiog Mem ber. John 'bait, Esq. was duly elected, hot that the Petition against his return did not appear to he either frivoloos or frolutions. • An Hottonesitie !demean presented a Position ram Ate inhabitants of filattiorranshire, eoviminining of agriettitnral distress.—Ordered to be printed. •Sir THOMAS LETS! II RI MR presented a. Petition of a similar Nature from the Coanty of Somerset signed by 100,4164. petitioners, occupying upwards of fonr millions of acres.---Ordered to he printed. Sir mAr:rttsv RIDLEY presented a Petition from some part of the Coney of Northnntherhinsi, against any alteration in the existing regulations respecting the Foreig's Timber Ttade.- 7 Referred to the 1.4110- mitt«, sitting• toe• that subject. 'Air. 11101allit 81.131INER postponed his inla.ineAle __J.: • _, MA uga support : 4 .1a , logglossmoo. is the laity** div dibt tile iette!te his was the onlyi bet ira, .6,74000 buretlh making an of dense of teplity. hope to provide. 441,000. Of Table Beer the average nmtelme of Var. there had iseen a •w the impegli- rBll hubs lit three years was 1,447.009 ;. in tbe last and from that f a we, were, with year 1,5118,465, mating an Inereue of 7t,000. The tradletion, that ti ...:...;..n. ...glee next article Was - tbat of Candles. 'Tim byetagn a the plr. ' la cite mho * NIT • t afflicting intruOnts into the Orphans' Food, o s i e k laded for thit diy, till the Ith of Morels. Od the motion df Mr. l'Atitiocia.., a ljelabittp e was listed to exhmine into; obit Iteport to Au • the state Of the aduidlotratido of Justice is Wales. The Hoist went into a endiatitteette the lia ..14.-• Mit 10••• - • - eeived Wootton% - ir, . Mr. aimiameLaakei shailiftlisidamisi. 44we l3"liel"l eumisirati iesilid os• Iry r f ar:Tre 4.l9 6l .ir i ths " .7. IHo particnbsch , al)uilod tOlgturit ' gOf gi r piagle pint of spirits. 1 lt ~ Mr. LUSNlNA7o7iltiltod'ilintlito bin iiise • mosn *copy intentioi to al t tile etri‘hens *la this Mint line ..aisna .. . v s. the *talk al Mt SAN If list can ap pend whim hone sea, ie ; as irerted to kneltriela ' ll* ihneqlft - • . ileh2 , i itir notkter WlTSeittinitTl4 tilt its. ' • thopitperCa poseentionf spilwit-siosimiio4 l l.l%, h i ft P a o4li tchia rP ..? ' !"l TErpeWth wis6.ll. r.4 4ll.4l"lll"llB"d etiltit to be. en 4s m o ot ontritiniggykrespprood he knew that tis own famili mere silo to fiat, a very comfoidable Itreall as Li m i What yob- thioi two-poste idly' Ipossod. He abut illit ibtlieso.diteo, a tbrt io as them ought i m* t nor be tairmi frankilie melee. ik- whim& • b kemm (AI the gight.lionnorible tientletnanmoktg, the upon which Ale peolutrutios 11 4 01 404 1 1,14 2 41- • Al. MANI NOPON. The , ale, bo.apprairned. • snuck* to, has that of Henry/first. Since tio l aw of the WO tom. 4 the late.*** oo that cmi i i i , tinned it, eh* pollivoti was .4o geossion could est' i i . avoldidentio4itallt4 4seten War •hatan instituted. Silit. *lf Olnit *aid, that 11F4sti %Iteration info existing baits on die *sUbject Were proPi.sed hir St . Majoby's timikomanibt, he abieW himself moos We the repeal.itr lif?.,, Mr: SVKIES liretientell a Petition from the 'nimbi. tants of ,Iloldernesa, in the, Vitooly of York, to. plainiar pf *picadores, aliatiesaw—Ordered to io Iprinted. .i ri 16., 41 lienerof OMICSIME presestasiHl Pinition fondle ;Ship Owners of LivErpool, comptaiiilng of the an. Fertainty in whicia they were left by the utolethloi state of the laws. lobate, to the Foreign 'finial Trade, and . pwaylig that whatever sisesures demi coatensplation might be speedily attopted is are that their ships Might not he unemployed is pert. He itak4 ble.ineention to make a *alien on the lab jecteorey nestmeett Mr. iFAI t LACR stated that the Connsittee thee sitting on die inbject of Foreign Thither Trak had made great revs in their inquiry, and he had ao doubt woeldelion• tome forward with a recommends-. ticio us the oaltjseti which he eertbialy thought voids' not consptillbna MI recommendation that the pretest 'laws aboold be extended beyond the present Roiliest period —The Petition was ordered to be referral to .the said Courtidttee. Mr. BENNETT moved for Accounts of the new her of Persons prosecuted and condemed for forgery of Bank of linglated notes, for the lain these yews, in Ireland and N e ..o, ns well as for sees State meets relative to number of Coaricts.—Orleati. CAUNTY COUrlii... . • Lord ALTROBA porouant to notices rose to wore relative to the viiiikry of small debts in County Gouts. Ile thought it neeestury to state, that he bad onlvbent induced to bring forward a motion of this ki . sek in consequence of several applications made to him wisils he was engaged in carrying through that Hans, the Insolvent Debtors' Hill. The Noble Lord west through a seminary of the history of the Comity l'ourts, from their original appointment at the time when the Kingdom was first divides! into Counties. Since that time, County Courts had fallen very mach into disuse oa account of the depreciation of moor, being limited to try cause. under forty shilling*, which at the time of their appointment, was equal to thirty psiends of our present money. He proposed that these Contis should not take cognizance of debts nailer fif• teen shillings, and not above fifteen ponnds. This would at least bring their jurisdiction nearer the ori• gine, intention. Another objection he proposed to remove was, that the pleadings in this court were equally tedious aid expensive as those of the higher courts. Ile proposed shortly to abbreviate these, ad to enable the Sheriff to appoint as Judge in thew courts a Barrister of fire years standing, instead of those persons generally holding that sitnation, wity mete totally unit for its duties. He cited for leave to bring In a Hill for renderiug proceedings iu t'oanty Courts less expeusire, and giving greater facility to the recovery of small debts. 'Air. C.iSliallF.l3, seconded the motion o f the Noble Lord. He bore testimony, from his own eximirienee, of the great benefit likely to be derived films die means about to be introdneed by the Noble Lord. in Kars especially, the advantage wonhl he felt of faellitating the recovery of small debts. aw l "he'hoped it would be carried into effect as ow n as passible. Mr. WiliTill 'wooled have no objection to give his :inepport to the measure propertied, provided it did eet interfere with the jurisdiction of other Courts, nor *id trial by Jury. .. • • Lord A L1:110a l'ourts, and especially with t he use of J m avoid interfering with th t e lie llo p n ro . ge ein n c i e lell' o l f n e t tt h er ti of debt, would 1w his particular care. Permission was sties gives to bring in Mr. 4.'.III,NKICI' gore moire that he would der meat move foe a repeal of so numb of ' 4.3;aeles the Vint, which enacted that Should be erected betwixt London Bridge Temple. • . • Mr. H 4.31.1 preseseed a Petition from . if the same (ere boiler') of Mackintosh, irl triad iii the rest - 1817 fur forgery, of whiebi been acimitte4, bestlisil been sect to !tedium ilium perms. and from his aii , .ehievoni asom fit for art inhabitant of that place large. The Position Mated the individual moo. anal implored the interposition of tLat procere his oolareement. .. s Mt. W YNNIt vas surprised to are any barrag to promo a Petition .of this nature. liblimeof ilosliospeonid fled a Member in ' his Petition, be belied the Hon. "oriented tbis.totitins to somaider what 'UN* limo 4 the 'Wm. air. &wilt !lattice'sit he bask net real the •iiotitionein-. the Urn in wrier to t as ,. ~ . , , . v.,.. I ~• .x IP I'. l et st lo of c li t ciill Suits le rase the tun. ronld N Moo- d t i le A c t of h i t PG shoil itlgo old thr an who heel bee , which ho bat' Ream las a" ns • thus to be et 11:11 Ito he 'MAW that 'louse to • v lion. Menu u re. 1f eget. that iluiao m a mbo wh' "voila leol s. • 6 1 the wink.' 1114111 1.4110 T # •