The Statesman. — London, England, 1820-05-31 00:00:00

I Ale *. pr pp bsed it, se to acknowledge that Parliament was nut to he ess•peremptorily bound by former arrange ments us to be precluded, upon adducing fair reasons, from entering into a new e:msideration of the 'omits of tlisAsimiralty. The p“wer was always complete, but the exercise of it was no: eiway.. expedient. Ile wa, as jealous as any min the constatitionll powers of Par ististliF, but he did nut, therefore, feel that it was net ebrtry or becoming, vchni the arrangements of the Civil List bad been once adjusted, that Parliament sliJuld vexatiously entt. into minute inquiries of its various applications, provided the Crown kept within the limits of the original settlement ; but if the Crown passed those limits, and in consequence found it neces _ 'ark to come down to the House for further demands, thou lie allowed that the question lay open fur a new investigation, and to he dealt u ith according to the discretion of Parliament. But in the present instance there was no reason for adopting the proposition of the Noble Lord. In all the arrangements, from the He ruintion d o% n t.• !!:e present day—arrangements made you di:ferent tri.tc:pleg —the Droits and casual ret•e- :Les were uniformly left wit:niched, as an inherent right of th.• Crown. The Noble Lord (Uacre) had founded an arguriont on the ground that there was, in the present histans..e, a certain SUM as'igned fur the maintenance of the Royal eAtahlit.huient. But he ehould have !mown, that ever since the reign of Wil- limn, whether tit dignity of the Crown was niaiii-, twined by a specific sum, or uncertain revenue, the Droite were never affected. The arrangement ou the accession of tieor ire the WeCOMI was on a different prin ciple hum that which took place in the commence rent of the reign of George the Tbirl. In the former nose there was na lint of the Civil List pro; ided for bir a sum certain, but a reimintent was fixed, and the Crown ha 1 all the advantage of the 'Tec ate, exceetling that minimv.:•. when there was an 2COBi, ealy subject to the general responsibility of attinisters. In the case of George 111. there wasa spe ale sum, and both a this; mum and mu.: images were fixed; but Parliament, in making such a regulation, did n.st attempt to torch the Druits of the Admiralty, or the Fear and a Half per Cents. or any of the casual nvennes of the Crown, though that was a time of *car, and there was a very considerable fund in posses sion of the Crown arising from those Woks. The legislature did nit think it advisable to deprive Om Crown of its advantages, if any such should tesult to it, from the prosperity of its peculiar re venue. The principles on which the Noble Lord had g-..nr were not by any means conclusive. Its times of pace the Droits had no existence: and in time of war, it was of essential importance that they should be at the uncontrouled disposal of the Crown. It was, besides, impossible for Parliament, in all the amplitude of its functions, to deal justly with a guys- G.:3 that combined distinctions -o numerous, and con siderations so minute and complicated. There was an other most important point which the Noble Lord had cot contemplated. It was not only necessary to make allowances out of the DAsits to captors, but to make restitution to neutrals. In many instances the country /i 4 ..1 been saved from a war srith Neutral Powers by the facilities which this loud afforded for immediate repa ratien. Thus, it supplied the means of pre. jug the character and honour of the country. When improper septum were made, the discretionary power which the C e cn had over It relieved the country from the coasequences. The amendment of the Noble Lord, it Was true, only affected the surplus after the adjustment of SW 'h demands, but that Noble Lord could not, in the a . eplintian of the nine millions which thirty years of war had produced, point out a single item which could L.z impugned, as having been disposed of with any im proper political views, or fur any personal considera t'on. The Noble Earl then observed upon the disposal of the surplus, after satisfying the fair and incidental c'airns, and maintained that the largest distribution le.d been made by the appointmen , and sanction of Parliament, be believed to the amount of 120,100/. p r annum. he other grants from the same fund sr-re made to the younger branches of the Royal Fa r.,.l'7 ; and in the commencement of the Urgency there was one grant of 7,000/. for the furniture of a ',alive. Those purposes, it must be obvious. were neither per s•Jeal or political. He repeated, that this fund was n:ver, in any former reign, divested out of the Crown, or at any time fettered, ss hether the maintenance of 04 Civil Government was founded upon a specific sum, or appropriated and fluctuating revenues. It was en,ingh, wider every view of the case, that the present offered a security which had never been given by any similar Bill previous to it ; for in no former Bill wa; there an obligation to account to Parliament for thy disposal of those funds. No account of the Grohs seas, indeed, ever refused, but it might have been. Here, however, it was made peremptory to furnish Iles ci orally an account of the casual revenues, and the nuttier in which they had been applied. He hoped, therefore, that under these circumstances, when more era- conceded to Parliament than had ever before been aliowed on the sante suls;;;;;:,::.0 ltegisiatUre would net sy.:t on a more marked principle of 'UMW. in re.gard t Site Sovereign than it had ever before exercised. By t ;c present arrangement, there could be no possible a,i,use of the casual income ; and if advantages should IF'ae,rnere was no reason offered why the Crown should LI deprived of them. lord ELL/NBOROIL7OII spoke in favour of the amend m:at. He said, that be regretted his Majesty bad in mid. a sacrifice of those funds to the public. Such a concession would bare gained his Majesty the sincere thanks of his people. He (Lord Ellenbornugh) was soot a person who could easily fall out with the splen • dear and dignity of the Crown, but he wished, as his truest glory, that the Prince should lie popular; a So vereign of England, to be happy, must be pupdlar. • Tlae sacrifice could nut be great, and if it orates, it was worth making, in order to obtain the national grati tude. It had been stared, that, i•i peace, the funds atnaut.ted to aluiost nothiug. He hoped his. Majesty • wurid live lung, and that the peace would continue still longer; and if hi: wishes were to be fulfilled, little could be sacrificed on the part of the Crown for the splendid acquisition of the public affection. There were constitutional grounds on which he found it int restive to object to the principle which recognised in his Majesty the appropriation of the surplus to him self. He might ask how could he dispose of these funds I„;lshapOy, his Majesty.lad no children ; there .were bone &rarer te, him than his people. Would he E s At] not, Thep, if well advised, have gladly given them up ? It was said, however, that these casual revenues were strinctinie.s applied to the discharge of debts incurred by members of the Royal Family; but whateVer feel ing there might be in Parliament with respect to such debts, and however it might in some instances appear illiberal, and in others to have an air of justice, it was his opinion that it was better to prevent the incurring of those debts, by remising the inducement. When revenues were uncertain, sometimes trifling, at others enormous, it was the nature of man to calculate on the highest amount, and to trust to his good fortunes for the most ample provision of a fluctuating income. The Noble Earl (Liverpool) had truly stated that those Droits hail on former arrangements been left with the Crcwn. That could nut prevent him, however, from objecting to a settlement which allowed those casual revenues to be confounded awl mixed up with the err tain revenues of the Civil List. Pe looked upon that defici,ticy in former arrangement.: as an omission which ought to be repaired. When a Loge Civil List Establishment was voted, the additional income of the l.roits rendered it excessive ; for when the sum voted was amply sufficient for the expenses of the Crown, every shilling beyond that was in excess. The basis of the Civil List was calculation; but here was an enormous additional revenue which bat& el ealculation. It was, besides, contrary to the whole spirit of the Coustitution, and that alone was a powerful ground of objection. The spirit of the Constitution was jea lousy, especially in pecuniary matters. The harmony of the entire State resulted (ruin the b o l A u ro l oppo sition of conflicting powers. 'I he Crown lad the pre rogative of going to war, and Parliament had the power of refusing the subsidies. But what was the effect of the revenue aritiug from the Drui's ": Why, it contradicted the first priori, Ir oft he natiot:%l •. zisteuee, and Corded the Supreme Magistrate the means and inducement of going to war, not as an hoi.ourable man, but in the character of a pirate., anal thereby ex 'll/tell tare tiAion to dishonour and the must dreadful calamities. He did nut object to the discretionary ap plicant-n*of a sum un the statement of the Nellie Earl, as allowances far captors, and affording iti‘o :hr mean, of p.unipt restitutiou to 'mistrals; nor dill he .leer that the t renrral payments from the casual funds lia.i been made with propriety, but be felt it his du:y to state thus to separate the practice and the principle. A Itlititig Is abuse had sot been committed, the postibi lity of it shottlel be F.:ven:ed. . _ - The question tif 4; then put, and the Loris ELLOK declared that the sense of the flow t. was against the amendment. A division was Is wever called for, and strangers were ordered to withdraw•— Contents 18 proxici 3 T tat - - YI Nut:-contents S 7 rrosirs 44 Twat - - 41 Majority in favour of Ilini-ters - On our re-atiniksion, we found Lord ELLaNnunot um storing an amendment, which was rejected withuut a dir!sion. Lord Lirrnrort. then moved a verbal amendment, which was agree.' to. lir Bill WA% then read a third tittle, and EXTESSION or FOREIGN TILIDE.---The Aar yds of LAssnowN moved fur ■ variety of documents relative to the exic!ing prohibitions and duties on the importation of foreign merchandise, and un certain ex purt,, which were i.rilered. On the motion of the Noble Marquis, turd tails bon,uv,ll and Lord Ili•auehainp were to the Se lect Commit tee, altet thr:l the 1110111.0 1101 t'. OF CONINIONS. TIFIDIV. MAI 30. Committees were Lahotted (or to try the Incrilq of petitions on the Elections for Bishop's Castle, lialw•ar, and - _ _ Mr. Martin, of tialway, and ‘creral other Members, took the oaths and their accts. On the !ion fur the first reading of the Essex Quarter `'essiini, aili, which is a Hill fur holding► Sessions at Colchester, Alr. Wss•re.aN 011,05441 the Bill, as a measure likely to be pralurtive ut it mat inconvenience to the con , ity. 31r. 11 . 11.1 , m IN it was the wish of a vrry large number of respectable ,Magistrates that the Bill should be brought in. Mr. HARVEY was in favour of the Bill. Admiral II ‘Li cv supported the Bill, which was r•uti a and , i•coitil tinge. Mr. Bnot•cu.►v brought up a Bill to authori7e the removal of slaves from the Island of Antigua. which was read a first time. Mr. linot - smasi gave notice, that, on Thursday fort night, he should submit to the House a proposition relative to the education of youth. Before that time he had every reason to expert that the papers on the subject would be ready to be laid before the House. He understood that an lion. Member for Westminster, whose noire of a rm•tion sf urd fur that slay, would postpone it to a foture day, which would afford him (Mr. Brougham) an opportunity of bringing forward the subject in question on Thursday fortnight.• Mr. BroOiani also said, that he should take that oppor tunity to' postkoning a motion, of which he had given flotic:! for the following day, relative to tar Jury Courts. rt , 4 on to Tuesday, the 20th of next month. He wished to fix on that distant day, in order that it might not be put off a second 111 tm . Ife war sorry to find an idea had gone abroad, that in mating this latter motion It was in tended to be levelled at sonic of the Members of the Uovernment. Ile assured tIL• House it was no such tiring. lie had net er mentioned the names of any per sons, nor even alluded to them. • PARLIAMENTARY REFORM.—Mr. Sheriff Bothwell appeared at the Bar, and presented a peti dim front the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Counnuns of the City of London, in Common Council assembled, praying fur a Pallianarittary Reform.—Ordered to be printed. ". The Sheriffs were again called in, and presented another petition from the City against the Grand June don Canal Bill. AFRICAN COMPANY—Mr. lhansronn pre- sented a petition frost the Company of Merchants trading to the Coast of Africa, praying fur pecuniary aid. Mr. tionuoN said, he hoped that, hefure the 'House took any step towards a compliance with the prayer of this petition, that the tiovernment would feel it to be its duty twice the subject the most serious ronsidtr ation Tire petitioners wanted no less a suns than 2: , ,t101E. out of the public money and it woutil be tit to determine Low far they were waded to It. ne , N. factories on the toast of Africa, with which these petitioners were cohnected, had for a long time been managed by persons who were in no respect under the matron! of Government; they were, at the same time, exercising an authority in Africa, which was partly commercial and partly Sovereign; and they conferred no benefit whatever on that country. The CHANCRILOII of the EICIIINCER said. that the presenting of this petition had been delayed for some time, because he wished to know what was the most proper course to be pursued respecting the petitioners. He should now inform the House that it was the inten tion of liovernment to lay before Parliament the neces sity of taking the sovereignty of all the ports an.l sta tions along the African coast, and taking away the powers of sovereignty which the Company now nossess ed. It was, however, thoufht proper to afford relief to the Company, in consideration of the sums they had expended in works and other improvements on the coast. Mr. tionnoN replied, that what had just been stated by the Right Ilunourable Gentleman was perfectly sa tisfactory to him. The petition watt then ordered to lie on the table. PRIVILEtiF OF THF. HOUSE.—A Ilesaze from the Lords announced, that their Lordships had agreed to the Civil List Hill, with certain amen.lonsitt, t i a hieh they desired the concurrence of the House. he amendment was an alteration of a Mill of motry, by substitutinK another stint instead of it. As soon as the ainendtnent was read, it excited some censation among the afetabers. The SPE•Kau observed, that it was natural to sup pose such an amendment as this would, at the first mention of it, produce the effect just experienced. But it was fit that he should state the nature of the amend ment: it was merely the correction by tl.e Lords of a clerical mistake. %%lien the Bill went away from that House, the several sunis enumerated in the Bill were cast u!, wrong, and the Lords did no more than correct that emir by casting them up right. lie should there fore submit, that it was nut any infringement on the privileges of the House. Lord Mt wroN observed. that although tLiiwaronly the coirection of a cler:cal error, the House ought to he exceedingly jealous of any art that t.ure the slight est setoLlance of All encroachment on its privileges. The House ought not to allow of any amendment bt ing wade in a lloney Bill. lie had no objection to this particular amendment, but it •'u_lit nut to be suffered as a matter of course. Lurd CasmENE %GU said, the emie was so clear and intelligible, that no precedent injurious to the privi leges of the House Co lll.l be drawn from it, partienlarh so, if an entry of the (Act were wade in the Journals. Lord MILTON explained. Tae Sri:Akan the practice was, in cases of this kind. to make an entry of the circumstance in the Journals. An order to that effect was made accordingly. Mr. Ni:o MAN presented a petition from the inhabi tants of Exeter against the 51arket Kill; and a peti tion frotu the Dean and Chapter of the Cathedral of Exeter, for the preservation •if their rights in the ma nor of St. Sidwell; which were referred to the Com mittee on the Exeter Market Hill. AURICULTURA I. DISTRESS ES.—Mr. TenTrt. presented five petitions from Sussex Lord BINS mu one from Scotland ; and Mr. IVKSTERN another from Es sex, complaining of agricultural distress. The petitions were then brtnght up, read, and or dered to lie on the table. The following petitions were then presented from various agricultural bodies, complaining of distresr, and praying an investigation into their case :—Otte by Mr. Strutt, front Ala!del; titre , petitions from the county of Carnarvott ; our by Mr. Gooch, from a town in Suffolk, complaining of the distress of the neigh bouring fanners; one by Lord Francis Osborne, from the rectory of Toddington, isle of Ely ; four by Mr. Treinavne, from Cornwall ; one from Gloucester, by Lord Edward Somerset; one by Sir James Suttie, front the county of Haddington ; one by Sir T. Leth bridge, from Somerset ; one from Sussex, by Mr. W. Burrell; one from Britlgenorth, by Mr. Whitmore; one by Mr. Rubinson, from an individual named Wm. Andrews, who prayed for a repeal of all laws affecting the importation of corn; one by Mr. liuskisst , n, from' Chichi toter ; one by Mr. D. Uilbert, from Bodmin ; three by Lord H. Cnvendish, from the county of Derby ; one front the inhabitants of Wolverhaurp•on, praying that the House would take into its considera tion the state . of trade; and another petition complain ing of the pressure of the poor rates, and expressing a hope that the House would not inerease the restric tions on the importation of foreign corn ; two from occupiers of land in Wilts, complaining of distress; one by Mr. Wynn, from Aluntgomeryshire ; one by Sir Charles Burrell, from the agriculturists of Steyn ing, possessing between IS and 19,000 acres of lend ; and another from Horsham, from persons holding 20,11(10 acres of land, to the same effect ; one was pre sented by Mr. Coke, from Orimpshaw, county of Nor folk; one by Mr. Dawkins, from !lettings, to the same c !rcet. 'i.l..cte petitions were severally laid un the table. Lord Mtvrox said, be held in his hand a petition front the parish of Kirkheaton, Yo:kshire. The pa rish consisted of between 7 and .e,OOO persons, oat of which 239 families, making 1729 individuals, were compelled to subsist, since the beginning of the year, un an average of eleven-pence three-farthings weekly. He would ask those who had been comer& in exhibit ing the distressed state of the agricultural bodies, if any thing could be more conclusive than this state ment, of the great distress of the manufacturing classes.—{Hear !)—Had they thought that their dis tress was temporary. they would have borne it patiently, but persuaded that it was of a contrary character, they came to the House to seek relief.—Ordered to lie on the table. Mr. Hume presented a petition from tialaehiele, Sol , kirkshire, complaining of their distresses, and praying ' relief front the House.—Ordered to lie on the tab* ' 11r. WILDMAN presented a petition treat the Nib. 1 facturers, trade's, and inhabitants of Colcheellft ' stating, that the distresses which they experienced. : aruie out of the distiessei of the agricultural body...-. i Laid on the table. Mr. PITT presentell &petition from laud in Ithe county of Weirartiet complainiug 4 Laid on the table. ' T % Mr. e. DIM PAX presented seren petitions from laud owners in Berkshire, to the same effect. Lord .1. IIAmILTON said he had a question to put to a Right lion. lientlenern opposite. lie understood that the l'ornini:sioners appointed to inquire into Ile state of the Court• of .Insti,•e, in Scotland, had ceased to exist prematurely, as I in rase this was the fart, be wished to ►;ice the Hons.. an opportunity of expressin g its opinions on th • circinatance. lie wished to know if Ministers would have any objection to the produr. tion of the eorrespo:olenre between the Secretary for the Hone Department and the Roar.' of Commissioners? Lord CiSTLEREAGII arid , he would be prepared to answer the question to-morrow. ( . Itl MI NAL 4:Oi)E.-Sir JAME% MACKINTOSH said, that in consequence of the important debate that was to take place that evening, lie thought it expedient to postpone to next Monday the second reading of the \mi:rabic Rivers Robbery Bill, Privately Stealing in Shops Bill, anal the Dwelling Douse Robbery Rill.— lie hoped it would he convenient to those who intended to take part in the discussions on these Rills, to vnter upon it on that day. Lord essTl.EuEstin, in a few words across the t3:.ie. wr understood to ut•sent to this arrangement. 0 , 7 prearn..rd a peCtion frwid the 014).mi-ti ers of Y.triuolth ar.sitist any alteration in the Naviga. tion .Ict.—l.aid on the table. Mr. E. WOMMOVSIE presented a petition from the MagiAtrates of the county of Norfolk, praing fur an alteration of the tootle of taking the average priers of corn.—Lai.l on the table. EXCHEQUER BILLS.—Mr. 31%111111AT wished to ask two questions of the Richt Hun. the Chancellor of the Exchriner. I S t was, what was tlw antout.t of Exchequer Dills that 113:1 heel% toted for the last year remaining andispowil of—and next, since it was neders.ood that there was to b. no Sinking Fund fur the year, he wished to know in what in inner the Right WM. Geatiotasan proposed paying the interest of the New Loan, which it was intended to mike fur the ser vices of the current year? The Casoceid.ts of the Exciteoera said, that the answer to the Hon. Member's first question was con tained in an a , •rount which had been already before the flost,e ; and as t.e the next question, he begged to postpone any explanation in reply, until the subject was more fully b,•fare the House, as it would be io a few dam 31r.31ABEIII.CY thiotght, that the country should be is possession of the intentions of Government,with res pect the pro, i,ions for the interest of the New Loan, before the expo.itiu:t of the financial arrangements of the country came on, and under this conviction he should, in a few days, inure a few resolutions. At present, he should sooye fur certain papers, to the pro deletion of which he knew the Noble Lord opposite (Cartkr,.tagh) hail no objection. He then moved that there be laid before the ♦louse, an Account of what surplus of the Consolidated Fund of the United King dom remained, utter providing for the charges made thereon, up to the 4 215th of January, 1817—or what deficiency remained unprosided for, up to the same date —the same account fur the years ISIS-19 and Also, for an AccJunt of the Amount of the Funded and Valuated Debt, outstanding and unprovi•led, far the years 1117, loht, and 1819. • -1 he Coastelmon of the MICI4IIQUIR had no objec tion to the production of the papers. Sir J. NEWTS/UT expressed his surprise, that the financial accounts from Ireland had not as yet been made out, although an Art of Parliament provided, that they should be furnished to the House of Conn s, at their first sitting after the 6th of March. Mr. Alanent.ev sail!, that he wished to have a full statement of the accounts laid before the House. la their present furls' they were very imperfect, contrary to the declaration of the Act of Parliament on the subject. papers were then ordered. A petition w. presented from the inhabitants of Forfar; praying for a continuation of the bounties on linen; and another praying that the manufacturers should be placed upon the same footing with Irelasi with respect to till. duties on the ashes employed Mae maauf.tetaring of linens. Mr. SIAHEAL::V said, it was his intentiou - to bring in a Bill to place Scotland un the same footing as this country, with respect to drawbaelisithd bounties ea linen, aetionling to the terms of the Aet of TRADE Oh' TIIR l'OUNTßY. l —General tlas corsc said, he lisl.l in his hand a petition diffssiag is its character from that of the various petitions r esisted to the House that night. It nuts intentle4 tabs stootided to the hands of i Bight Honourable Col league (Mr. Canning), and he regretted to say, *a this intention was frustrated by the severe Miami. tier of that gentleman. '1 he petition came from die merchants of Liverpool, and was similar to that pee , sonted by the Hou. Member for l'annton (Mr. listing). The petitioners rumptained of the great hardship of restricting British merchants front trading beyond the Cape of Hood Hope. He much the Ammo of his Hight Hon. Colleague, for be would have bow I able to inform the House if it was the intone° , of Mi nisters to take into consideration this part of the al knit of the petition. He was sure, however, thins ' wronid come under the particular consideratiot of Committee. Time petitioners said, they observed Vl* ' concern, that the agricultural bodies were pteslii(W fresh restrictions on the importation of men, me"' standing the duty that had been laid upon this setisk ha ISIS, when the state of the curreoey was se Ore' eat from what it *was at present. This, he loaned* was the int petition of this nation presented fo th . Howe; but he was convinced, that if the Hissattrable Member for Surrey proposed an Increase of the the signatures to tie petitions agaiast the prenoss l !. would be far more numerous than those it apps" , it. He observed, that in a few days be "mild belt to present a petition from the shlp-otners of Livele a of a different nature. The petition was then brought op, reed, and orline d to be printed. AUBICULTI'RA L DIS3'RESS.—Mr. H. Sanaa presented a petition signed by thirty iodividesh whe, held upwards of 2,000 acres of lead is the coo/ • Surrey, complaiting of distress.--bald es the tank- ip Two petitiont w-re presented from Ibralli" Staffordshire, complaining of -the distwooll 1 asannfaetares. Mr. H. SLIMNZR then rose, in putinanett o "s" to more the the rations agricuetaral petitions oo