The Statesman. — London, England, 1818-04-15 00:00:00

7F' 7 : • MI -- ..-.~ • . • I'l7- . price of Wlllll.oll* agreed with*-thh.Nohle Lotd (Lasciltes) in 'tanking that the publication of evidence on such a subject as thiscould only encourage foreign speidators. Sir JAMES GRAHAM maintaided there could 'be no necessity for the appointment of a Committee. The price of Wool had increased since last year. If it bad decreased their table would have been loaded with Petitions stating that fact. The end of the American war, when prices, were five or six times lower than they were at present, would have been a much Atter time for throwing open the trade. But be protested against the repeal of laws which had existed hundreds of years, and under which the coon. try had risen to its present pitch of prosperity. Mr. FRANK LAND LEWIS observed, that the keaton why uo Petitions were presented last Session was. that from the distress and discontent in the 'country, the time was deemed unfavourable; but• during the present Session circumstances were as fa-. Irourable as could be wished for, and that had induced the advocates for a free trade, to move for a Com 'miffed to enquire into the subject. Never was, in bis opinion, a measure opposed on grounds more in bulficient than the present was. The question was, not what was the price of Wool 10 or 20 years ago, bat what was the agricultural interest deprived of by being precluded from their right to dispose of their Wool on the best terms. The House had permitted the exporiation of corn, the first necessary of life, end yet they prohibit the exportation of Wool at all times, and under all circumstances. The woollen manufacturers enjoyed a Jouble monopoly—they compelled the wool grower to sell his wool to none but the woollen manufacturer. Was it even-banded justice to place one class under such disadvantages for the sake of another ? If the question were al lowed to go into a Committee, it would be proved by documents that could not he disputed, that all the grounds on which the exportation of Wool was first •prohibited were now untenable. From the exporta tion of Wool a revenue might be derived. 'He had no doubt that as large a duty might be derived from the exportation of Wool as would enable the Leather Tax to be commuted ; and was there any one who could doubt the advantages of such a commutation ? The House then divided, For the motiou, Aping it, . . Majority in favour of the motion for a Committee, 3 PRINCE REGENT'S MESSAGE. Immediately after oar re-entering the Gallery, which was a work of very great difficulty, io cons*. quence of the crowd whom curiosity had assembled, Mr. WILBERFORCE rose, and, as we under. stood, enquired of the Noble Lord opposite (Castle reagh), whether he intended to proceed immediately to move for a Committee on the Prince Regent's Message; as, in that case, he (Mr. Wilberforce) would postpone a notice of his, which stood for the present evening. Lord CAS rLEREAGII said, it was his intention to propose that the Order of the Day for going into a Committee on the Message should be read, with view to the postponement of it.—(Shouts of hear! from all sides of the House, which continued for several seconds.) The Order of the Day was then read. Lord CASTLEREAGH moved—" That the Com mittee be postponed till to-morrow." Mr. BROUGHAM said, when he last night moved his amendment, it had been observed by many from all parts of the House, certainly from the Benches opposite, and by several of his Honourable Friends on the Bench below, t i whom be was dis posed to pay more deference— hut though they were as anxious as he could be to estiblish the principle of economy in granting the p b is money, and would show their sincerity when the question of the allow - maces should come before the House, yet they could not concur in the amendment, as it was con trary to the established pro tics in such cases. The practice usually followed in Addresses on Royal Messages was at variance with his amendment, and therefore they could not agree to the amendment in ferns, though they agreed to it in substence. And mow those very Gentlemen who storied this objection to his amendment, and the Noble Lord (Cestlereigh), Were deviating from all precedent, in moving the postponement of an Order that a Royal Message should he taken into consideration in a Committee 01 the House. _ It was objected to his amendment, that it was most unusual ; and the reasons for the pectice were founded on a doe respect for the Crown—a re -spect weld) it was necessary to show to all stud ever) thing which came from that quarter, whether in the shape of Speech or Message; to that respect every thing else must be sacrificed. There might be many things in a Royal Message, respecting which great differences of opinion might exist ; but they pledged themselves prematurely, rather than not appear to treat *ith due respect a matter which came recom. mended to the House in that shape.—[llear, hear!] —The principle on which this measure was now to be postponed was too obvious to remain doubtful one second' to any Member of the House. A Noble Lord belonging to another House assembled in his Ovate room, in a manner contrary to the spirit of the Constitetion, if not contrary to practice (hot no praetiee could recommend such a course of proceed. log), a select number of Members, whom he under, stood to be most respectable Country Gentlemen ; for, though they were known to give their support generally to Ministers, their respectability was well known. Among them were one or two Gentlemen who belonged to the Opposition side of the How. This he understood, that a Member of the Learned Profession, who belonged to the Opposition side of the Houte, was invited, as if any one could doubt the side to which he belonged. Many Gentlemen who supported Ministers were excluded though how they could be excluded after the principle of selection had been so evidenced, he was at a loss to owderstand. '1 is click of Members of Parliament was so much floured by Ministers on account of the weight which their support would give them; and to them a.disclosore of weight was always submitted before it was laid before the House. If Parliament, by their silence, acquiesced in such a practice, it was a mockery to talk of the debates here. The debates might go on, in form, and the result might be pro noonced in form from the Chair, but the questions would 'be decided elsewhere—discussed they coo id be nowhere—but decided by practising on Members lu varier ways—(llear l hear, hcar!)—grot whit.. tirE STA" bad they ant &fight to sprat fro. i Government , srhickthose to carry ,oss 4461 le this 'any ? And if it . was known that they woeld have: so eMoniendiric a imiirity hi the lipase, that there could be nO dosbt o f their second, the Horse would learn eotbtag , of the piviioes decision, nukes hi . some onacooontablomistake, such as that which bed" taken place. on the present occasion. In this state o><4 things,. it Was nugatory to discus any matter in Uwe House. Not having had an opportunity before of, entering hii protest on constitutional grounds against this prartice; he could not let slip the present It had • tamed eat, that• Lord Liverpool had mistaken the astonishment and silence of these Mem bers—that somehow or other, be had mistaken their silence for assent.—(llear, hear, hear!)—But no' sooner • had they come here, than their astonishment was done away, and they began to open their mouths, and to open them to the coerfuSion of Ministers; and they declared, that a proposition so estraordinary could not receive their concurrence. One after ano ther they made this declaration—there was no es ception ; and, though his lion. Friend the Member foe'Arundel (Sir S. Hominy) had challenged an one of those who attended at the Meeting in Lord• Liver• pal's, to say he agreed to it, no one stood forward and said be agreed. Ministers had therefore a right to assume that this proposition would not be sec cessfel ; and now another delay eas proposed, that more pulses might be felt, and more attempts might be made to get over Members, whose honesty stood so conspicuously recorded.' If they deferred the consideration of this question, the House made Itself a party to the acts of the Ministers. The Ministers asked time to accomplish indirectly what in the House they did not dare to propose. He should, therefore, humbly take the liberty of moving—if the motion of the Noble I.Ord was negatived, which he hoped the Huuse would have the virtue to do—tn I propose a Resolution, so constitutional in its nature, I so respectful tp . the individuals concerned, and so temperate in its team', that he had no doubt it would meet with the concurrence of the Hoes*. Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that if deliberations out of the House, previously to the submitting of any proposition to the House, were to be prohibited, this would be the first time that it had been done. The Hon. aid Learned Gefitillll4ll was in the habit of throwing out ideas perfectly novel ; but he appre. bonded, if he wished to • prevent communications with Members out of the House on any propositions which might be submitted to it, he would not only introduce a system entirely new, but make it pro- WA, that the propositions would Hot be proper or wise in themselves. He should, therefore, enter his counter protest against the new constitutional doctrine of . the Heuourable and Learned Gentleman, as both impracticable and unwise, and unconststutioual.— Ulear, hisrl—The Hun. and Learned Gentleman was pleased to say, that if the motion was postponed, it must be for the purpose of practising on Members. It was aserihilig a high degree of power to his Ma. jesty's Ministers, to suppose that between this day slid to-morrow they vivid carry on practices which would make converts of those who hail already mark ed by their votes their opinions on the proposition which was to be made to them. The Honourable and Learned Gentleman should have been induced to take a more candid and true view of the state of the case ; but in this case he only followed up the system of vilifying his Majesty's Ministers (who had never theless hitherto possessed the confidence of the Crow u and of Parliament, and who would always endeavour to merit it), and of running down the esisting system, to substitute some novelty in its stead. He hoped the House would postpone the consideration of the Message till to-morrow, and lie should then state the reasons which had actuated his Majesty's Mitiisters in bringing forward the proposition which they should then make, and he hoped the House would be satis fied, whether or no the proposition was adopted, that they had done what they conceived to be their duty, not only to the Crown but to the country. Mr. TIERNEY.—If the object of his Hon. and Learned Frimsd's speech had been, as it had been said, merely to vilify his Majesty's Government, he must confess he had taken very unnecessary pains, as there never yet had existed a Ministry which had taken such pains to vilify and degrade itself in the eyes of the Parliament and the country as the pre sent Administration—[Loud cheering and Laugh. ter]—not ever, in his recollection, had there been so much time taken up with more surcess to exhibit Ministers in a degraded and contemptible situation. —[hear, hear !] —This he spoke advisedly, as he bad decided in his own whirl that no other words in the English language could serve the purpose of con veying what he, and every other man of sound jutlg. meet in the Noose, thought their conduct merited.— [Hear, hear!]—lt had been said by the Noble Lord that the practice pursued on a late occasion was by ne Means onceestitutional. True it was that meet. ills of Members of l'ailiament were sometimes con. versed with respect to Bills affecting any particular trade, or professional or mercantile interest; but then they were always selected for the purpose of advising what measures should be adopted, and were the persons best skilled in the trade or profession to be affected. In this case there was a wide (literacy, because the measure was of a general nature, and therefore ought not to have been submitted to any select body of the House, before it had been sub. mimed to the House itself. Rut here the Minis ters appear to ham advised his Royal ilighness, and settled in their minds what was to be the as tute of the proposition shoot to be laid before the House. But previous to the meeting et Lord Li. ter pool's, some rumour, it appears, had reached the ' ears of those wise Ministere, who began to suspect that the proposition would not be agreeable even to the faitbfulfew which were about to be collected at the Mi. nister's boese. The purpose, therefore; of this Meet ing was, to re-consider the proposition. As there were but few Members in that lesser Howse of Cots. mots, it would only have. been fair that there had been fitted op a gallery for the rest of the Members to see at least what was gliiiag ms:—(Lood laughing ) 1 —But that, to be sure, was not very material, as 1 there was no debate, it tarried nut to be a Quaker's Meeting.—(licur! and lauglifer.) , —lt was true, they said, that Lord Liverpool did make a speech, and rather a long one, but a approbation followed it ; and adopting the ordinervre4e, that silence gives, consent, be supposed they: mould give their meat to the proposition in thif UMW.. , Tlatt ma. mew wkieiit;°lliitiefrer, ititeeteelves Lu .the late, *at a vary. Fife-loose, •thRY, their dissent. N , "note disposed )1 0 4 01 4,1 . losonilow *lts.' owed of applane, nasitotaining what in • their Cenwiem themselves called spew to avow., The this 'was, that the Noble' Lord first called pa Int Noose to welt fee twenty-four hoirs, and oily, ha , found it necessary td make it forty:eight. But what, season had bees glees for this delay.? None at all. He had merely said," ak till to-nserrow and IWO tell you why you eh p. till t•tomittr•v. 4 [Laughing.] — The r el. was, that be bad feign and seek advice amongst, tlas rest of his colleagues ; I and such a situation as - MI Morten his colleagues and the House was Doe trhty to be commiserated. In that Meeting (for4t bad alt Come oat since) It had been proposed tint the Duke' of Clarence should re. eels, an additional income, reuderiog his total income equal to 40,0001. with an outfit of 20,000. Tire Doke of Kent was to receive 12,0001. so Ili to make his total income 30,0001. per annum, with 12,r001. as an outfit ; the Duke of Consborlend—(Reitetoted shout, of hear, hear !)—to receive an additional 12,0001. per snout% making his income 30,0001. with an outfit of 12,0001.; and the Duke of Cambridge's income to be augment ed to 30,0001. • year by an addi tional vote of 12,0001. a year, and 12,0001. as an out. .it, making a total of 116;0001. to be granted daring the first year, at a time when the country is so ill ible to make good its present taus. Ile could not help believing that his Royal Highness the Prince Regent thought the advice given him was perfectly right, and such as should be meted upon—that the Ministers imagined too, that these illustrious per. sons could not maintain their state and dignity in the situations in which they , were or might be placed, here or in foreign countries, on a more economical smile. But after admitting all this, did it not clearly appear that the Noble Lord had thus incautiously ad. vised his Royal Master, and as soon as he had found the proposition unpalatable, they had deserted hies? hear q—Eacept they now abandoned the sums proposed, what was the object of their putting off the discussion ? They flattered themselves they might now, after proposing a greater, propose a less sum—and yet such men could talk the last evening of his Honourable Friend's motion de stroying the system of Administration. Could they he even accused of having any system ? Only (said he) look at the Bench and see if any thing like system can proceed from such a strange, hete rogeneous, and discordant body as that Bench pre sents.—[Hear, hear, hear! and continued laughter.] Their only system was this—try one thing, and if that wont do try another. He must say he felt for the situation of the Noble Lord ; he had much com miseration for one who, in the eyes of Foreign Mi nisters, had assumed a character of importance and revonsibility, resembling that of a Sovereign rather than a Minister—when he found that Noble indi vidual at a loss in the House to know what he could or gpight doovith reference to the wishes of others not in that House, he anticipated some advantages from the delay, and hoped the longer such delay the more the Noble Lord would moderate his proposition. So far was even well. He should wait patiently till to-morrow. But of one thing he was convinced, that nothing would satisfy any honest man in or out of that House, or quiet the minds of the People of this country, except a total abandonment of the pro. position all oget her.—( Loud cheering.) Lord FOLK FATONE was surprised to have heard so much last night of the necessity of respecting the forms of proceeding in that House, and this night witnessing nothing but attempts at violating all order and precedent, by the very parties so anxious to pre. serve It last night. He could not sufficiently repro bate the proposition for deferring the discussion to another evening. The question was then put, and carried without a division. .. ; Algid 'lylia:1: .4' k:util:: 0.-te,11111:;i1114,444;13c11".a.T.ittp1r:191114111:::„*41.1LW•ir'.:774:11::°t.. '.. . . until . /... k - . - 1 -., , • . !:; 411:, A l '. ;, ....a#*• • 4 l rtifis thcititigres ,ll o4 ll cP f/ik 5iN..4 1 k. 1 14 • ' , _r_ kfgliti.odrlo4l been °1 ;li l l. 14 101 1 1 4W•frdi i t . • Mi. ,kdermie ATIC I NS postponed his motion foe `ibbili e efor a * Select C6Mtalieo • oil Mock At/49 6 k The tommittee on the SpeAk.giiini. Tifidi.mgt -, :. • 'tits postponed by Mr. pH eilVepotit.Titdadeir ...,_, I. . • yf! Mr. BUTTFRWOR 2' O . sen lid iPetitiots PO ta . the labouring Coite`h r ipitiolersqlj,rresionjAtifayeer • -s of the Cottonpirinitll Bill nrrir MOM: * ).' ' Ni r. W. Of irfil , di!endektbb taboyteto„orthetii • - with wikom Ihts i ßillhodotiOnetrCit "01.404 1 0•41144 titioners in its ratip9i,,ip : 1141kyorelpossesoieg4010, disposed to Kteor Ilse were! iinlytttot mica t efeo. ' ' Inters throughout . tije" coentrr, 10:.1 Pe *Oa had' . • meted out reproaches agslost them,. W I eepporipg , the preseet system: •• .I- 1-a JO '..,r •N--.. Thotrtition was then read and laid en aft %Id* itetOils of the number of Pardons under 0.44..14 Seal, daring the last five years, were ordered te bit laid before the House. The House then adjourned. i —....... . The following discussion wai Nit slightly noticed in oar Parliamentary Report oforeslesday :—. • COMAIF,RCIAL IkIPIttiVKAIEN7I. •• On the question for the Speikiee leaving the Chair, on Mr. Alderman . Wood ' s. motion et i gpiest law 4 Committee of the whole Home, , . ..!, . . Mr. Gil ENFELL said., that although the measure woe professedly for the employment of the,poor, yet, thet it was neither *re nor less than 1 .measure foe lialising . Joint Sts4 'Companies, and went directly to strike at the present system of Trade and Com.; •erce; by permitting any number of persons to as. sociate in trade, and to release them from all re• sponsibility beyond a specified sum., Mr. Aidernsau WOOS only wanted the noose to have the possession of the Bill. All he wished watt to have it printed ; it would then be found to be quite different from authorising Joint Stock tempanies.— The object was to incorposate persons of large capita* together; but that could hate no reference to ender. takings in shires, where not one single peony Itedbettet . advanced. At all events, the Bill sight be amended as to Ireland, where millions of people *to sioetlio • ployed. . , • The House then went into I Comnsittel. ~ Mr. GRENFELL still objected to the fineapare tit related to England, but bad no objectless twits being resorted to fur Ireland. Mr. Alderman WOOD was anxious that the Lord Chancellor should have the power of preventing capi. talists from sulferiUg injury from the misconduct of acting partners. If his Hon. Friend did not concur with him with regard to England, he was happy to find that be would not oppose its introduction to Ireland. . • • .... The Resolutions for bringing in a Bill were sg . reej to, and the Report ordered to be received on Mogshiye pli.-Nopr..K... _-_-7- - , --..........r" -- 77/7".."" 1 ,.." . ...7" Pir rW .."11 .77 .. V ."'" ' 7lrwe'-..- - "".--- ...""(.;•- I . a : , • : "••• . ' . - n• • ,_ , . .. ,- •• • .'. ' .;•'. • ' . 4 ": ••_ % : .I'y Le ' .., . , • • . 4 : 1146; 'i 4 lfieditili4ii ) Ol44,. . . '-' 4 1 41 i ‘l; cl . 4.p4 ; ging it * . .1. 4 a i 14 ' ;'. e' iir'iof thh''lllogii, iiiitili:ili fbe r." . Sr ' f le hi . I. le cooeitil t rocsoslogooe. 4 .. el 1 o -,,,-", • y• difeseot atirios i phere USW iiitio.. .is.. (t; FORCE ass g, il the 1140.44 Q . • y, ape aft e r the -..otbee,.• . sowe d - &rota pl , , 14,d d?volell •so meth a his . ; ' § l o* APIs .41Kohly- irk*: iko., ismin 4! ? . ¢li lime p Atorino ,t,o ;Oiler fho-peoal in w . ;" • 0 09 ; time .frrien NAnditrin;„ trif ik1i047.4 . .4 e ~iiiii4:l4, prpept Ilill woisld ". .• ', 1 S. supported 'i , o o "en,/ roaost‘r, .dtsirm le *L . Anssititog v episitof 4 fresoool, *li • :•... ~ •• I I t. t le therefore es riga: lii.i Wei; ihelir to bow fat. Ookmittv, o stuir.:copiosi fr tttwioftiOees, • 0, whether Whiks. or Tritios Or fi:jy, Oi tlie o re4•o • , the4or#4,,iit,4**tanitit*anir it in . their Conscience Alb" , , r4SY eittfriin; Oro! :Uri ; 1 10:,. 4 11.01,a4134 , ...4 Pilli :. • .. I spew to arrow ; The 'viol' of cai tier. Ur shOold, tiskrifetorP4o.'siii.4ltio. ' r 1 L_ wr_is_ , I a e . _ la a ..• 2 • •• '..0 '• - , f • ' , •: SPEECII or rill t:4111 41101 L ALEXANDEft. The Jail Chaplains Bill was read a second time, and, on the motiotrof Lord FoLassvoxx, ordered to be printed, and committed on Friday next, after a few words from Gen. THORNTON. TUE PRIVATELY STEALING IN DWELLING tIOUSLS ACT. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved, as an Amendment, that the words " Notnithstanding the extreme severity of penal laws It had not tended to the prevention of crime, but, on the contrary, ren dered conviction often more difficult," he left out, and the fultu‘sitig substituted :—" As the said ex isting Acts bad nut proved effectual is repressing crime." Sir sAm u Era ROM( LEX could not agree in the suggestion of his Honourable Friend, as the object of the words objected to was to state the principle of the Bill, and the grounds on which it had been passed, as had been rascal in former cases. it was therefore necessary to state as a principle, that the severity of pOnishments had tint decreased the num ber of crimes committed, by rendering punishMents uncertain, and calling upon the humane feelings of the Jury or the Judge, to interfere and mitigate the sentence, or defeat the law altogether.. An e:- traordi►►ary instance of this kind bad occurred 'at the last Assizes for Hampshire, at which a servant, who had robbed his master, notwithstanding the utmost intercession made in his fattier to . the Secre tary of State, owing to his youth and former good character, was condemned to death and banged, notwithstanding these applications, because it had, as was then said, been determined by ,the Judges, to proceed to a rigorous execution of the law in all cases of servants robbing their misters. 'Now, here there had heretofore esisted e deubti - whicit it 'would base been for the interest of inciety shtitild 'have I been settled Wog since; and yetnotrsirhstanding this determination of the principle, in the Sessions in the• Old Bliley, ten days after, a serrant i ,man, named Mil wood, who bad robbed his' minister. to the amount of 5001. end_pledgeil one articld ilotte tot 51.; was found guilty by the Jury of ithaling to the annidit.. of 395. only, and thus the principle attempted to.be established by the Judges on the former case was tested completely by the humanity of the Jury. certainly felt Parliament was called on to set e principle at ren t and - la dolog:so s • by this Act ; ft.i. ~~ _ A llamborgh Mail brings the following • Spee‘ch the Emperor of 'tussle, on opening the Diet o Poland :- 1 Vlr•ausaw, MARCH 27.---Yesterday his Majesty the Emperor our King opened the Diet with the fol. lowing Speech, which was spoken by his leajefeyki • the French language, and afterward, : reed tw Ate . • Polish language by his Excellency the Miniftefuflaik 4 cretary of State:— „ 66 REPRESENTATIVE, OF WM KINGDOM POLAND, " Your hopes an d my wishes are receiving their accomplishment. The People, to represent whom* you are summoned hither, !piny' at length a nu. 110111 i existence, secured by arrangements which time has matured and sanctioned. " The most sincere oblivino of every. thing that has passed could alone prodnii•yotif 'regeneration. it was resolved upon .in,my mind, the osktent thao could calculate Irwin the means of effecting "• " Proud of the glory of my , country., I *re en. deatiouredio procure it é net one. In fia,'Ensitia t after a pesserlmelaeoholy iwkr, retornini,.**l43 l . . to the precepts of the Christian religion, ftW eta, has fraternally held out its arms to yoeealtduillt all the advantages which victory gave it, she preferred one, namely, the honour of raising and restorings'it e brave and estimable nation. In contributing to this I obeyed an internal conviction, powerfully sop. ported by events. I have fulfstled a duty which was • presented only by this conviction, and which is foe • that reason dearer to my heart. " The organization which wit 'in torte in Your , country, has allowed the immediate establishment of , that which I have given ypu, by putting Snt6 Arne' I :C r the principal of those liberal estabtiliDermits which were always the object of my care, and er,hmoriante.. some influence I hope, with the help of Opd, to ea. tehd to all the countries which Providence has com• mitted to my care. In this manner yoa'have offered me the means of showing to my country 'whakl *hes long since been preparing for it, and *Mar obtain when the basis of so important a work shalt have received the necessary consistency.—Poles! It • is for you who hate laid under the fatal prejudices , which have drawn open you so many evils, togits durability to yore terneration. It is indislolubA: united with the& fatet of t Russia ; all your efforts itily' 4 be employed to give stability to this sahaturfy micros ,° tecting union. , • lit, • " YO c :r a ge.elrklilidl; l lPflt is Used sylvn s trespag —it is' hy . the Act of the Copffitutir.g.—.. The inetelabilitftuf those foreign Ongizinlsentoc Af their ilatiAnseatal laws, intsurrottroPol din frit M are as,hanittlpalSw rank among till swine o f H or o l ifi e valuahln posatasion which it hsl long ought au.vaia 'uisder 114 , • 1 / 4 • • # • ,f ~~ „y r -. , : ' I c~ . ! v.l ' +1 I •' ' \-4 • it ,9„,k 7' ~; . .4.i. 1 ~,.