The National Register. — London, England, 1819-02-28 00:00:00

FEB. 2$ ..-9efease sitting done he bogged to state, that It was meat t. the Doke of Yuri to have his name COIIaCCISA Milli any money ascensions in that . House. The Duke way ac tuated solely by a sense of public duty ; but lie was audio. ei.e.l to state oa the part of leis Hoye' Highness, that he would milker directly aior eidirecily accept of any grant front the private propel ty of kis Majesty. The noble Lined con cluded by muting/he first resolusioo, that the stun of 30,0001. slionid he allowed out of the civil list foe the exreteses of the Wiudser Establishment. Mr. TtERNEV said, that he should consider the question tinder three beads; Ist. the allowance for the Windsor Estab lisement ; tie the ellowance foe the servants of the late Queen ; and 3.1. which was the most impel tant of all, the allowance to the Duke of York. He hal at first been of opinion, that the sam of a 9,0001. was much too large for the Witalser Establish :ant ; but lied subsequently altered hit opinion, when he un derstood that the expletive of Winilenr Castle alone amonnted to lti or 20,U031. a year. The remainder he did not think too dry aortal for the care of the King. The country would gp kraut him for any little economy by Which a saving of 2 or sot etl. might be made. There had heels enough of Loyal debates iii that House, and he was sincerely sorry they lead tiot conic c a close. It was a matter of extreme regret that the case of tae Queues Establishment should have come liefuie the Com nutter, loft that was probably occasioned by the circumstan ces of the case. He bed performed a most implement ditty iu ea aa asidag the claims of Ladies of high rank, but of slender , fortune: the expence had been stated at 25,0001. annually. lie had felt doubts on the sehject of the male part of the Establishment, how far they were entitled to the contingence of their ellowenres , and that point had keen subsequently given up try the Noble Lord. He was pleased, and he hoped Cie parties were attune so--( A laugh )—lt lied been said, that tee female pert ui the establishment shined have their allow- once. as well as their calories; and length of service lead peen also pleaded as a grimed ef additional eetutineration ; and the Committee lied draws a line as well as they could. After the declaration of the Noble Lord, lie appealed to the justice of the Heise; and should he succeed, upon the principles of the Noble Lord, lie would throw infamy upon the House of Cunt mous. Haase had been told. that if they voted money front the Privy Purse, the Duke of York woutil tel accept it. But he would say, that if the House voted money, the proudest Duke in England might take it. Bid he denied the proposition that the Privy Purse was the private property of the King. The money had not been given to the man but to the office, to support its dignity ; and Parliament had never recognised guy sum as the private purse of the Sovereign. The AMisters were responsible for soy salt taken flout the Civil List by the King; nutter that responsibility the King might have taken 690,0001. as soou as tiel,o3ol. The privy purse we. milieus% n to the Censtitutioa, to Parlianient, and the Country. The sum at first taken for that purpose had beetslB,oool. and lied been siihsequoutly increased to fia,uool. In 1199 the King had per ' chased the ground on which Kew Palace had been atterwards 1 built, cud then wished to be enabled to male a will. Hence the Act of Pediatric:lit had originated; hat that Act did wet recuguate the existence of a privy purse, but only that the money saved by his Majesty might be disposed of by will. The visitation of Pruvideece with which the King was &Meted had altered the whole of the ca , e,iand the whole of his private property was sacred by the law. When the King was first taken ill, hopes had been coterie:reed of a speeds recovery, and an arrangement had been wale respecting the privy purse. But where was the need of any arratigenieut hail the miry purse keen regarded as the private property W . the emeteige? When tic hopes tit the King's recovery had ceased a new arrangement lied been funned by the 3 hid of the King. 'that was the principal Act, and would satisfy the House diet what he proposed had been recognised by three branches of the Legislature. Three C.oiataissioneie kid beets appointed. in %them the management of the King's permed property lied been he/tided. These Conuniesiosiers tuck all oath of secrecy ou the eubject et' the property, from which they were only released by eremit; into a Court of Law in defence of the property. They were hound to disclose nothing, even in consequence of an Ostler of the House. By the 39t4 and toth of the King, the private propene had been accurately delisted; but the privy purse was not property in the saute saute. The priry purse was charged with two payments, au annual payment of 15,000/. and a monthly one of .1,20014 limb) , the 52d of the King the monthly payment had been raked to 1,91)1)1. and the same Art had declared it to be rea emehle that the expenses of the medical attendance should Le paid out of the pt ivy purse. So the it would appear to he reasonable to burthen the privy purse with some pert of the charge; and infistuous,accordieg to the Noble Lord, to burthen .t unit another part.—Hear, lear.-31itaisteis had made the savings under the Act of the 31st available by the .let of the :ad; and then NAY certainly a strong . measure. By the words of tho Act, die Cominissioners, who bed the mintage- meet of the King's private property, had no power over the privy pulse. The House had the power to take even the expense of the Windsor Estalvlishinent out of the privy purse; but lie lied no intention to make any proposition of that sa tire, But ?flimsier& wad, Endeavour to make tip a purse tnr told knows whom. Another privy purse of 1)2,0001. lied been assigned to the Prince Regent, and vas too, to use re. puttied as sacred; for it Was as much the property of the King as the first, the appointment of a Cisme. was a fair charge upon the privy pulse. A count of equity !'" pus sue the seine course that he was endeevour nig to Impress upon the House, and the necessary charges wooed be Morro from the property of the huratic—No Juan! from the Ilunsterial side.--Well, then, (comities:Ll Mr. 1..) all are 44reed: and the Amendment is gaged 'nett Amendment Car, that the surplus arising from the Ditchy of Lancaster AIR/ truism lbw Privy Purse should be appliedt o defray the espence of the care of the Royal Person. He agreed with the Noble Lord, that the character of the new Parliament 'mild depend epee the Vote of that night. it was the dusty of every Maki, ill the present state of the countr y , to save all the money he could to the Public, and here a saying might he made In the amount or 10,0001. a year s and he should continue to think that GUM would be 'laved, till lee found sell in the minority. He thought the Noble Lord had been under the necessity of niatiug such a proposal, contrary to lug cwt good good sense. Of the grant itself lie should say robing, and bed edupted the present as a middle course.— lee high elmracter of the Royal Family would he hurt by the einaluct of Ministers, who had 'Oll a furtlier Ueraplull made e throated of 12,0001. for the Royal Dukes, and been then glad 1 to 6,0001. A bad lomat lied here made fur time bounty I lire euuutry. 'llse Prince Regent had 70,0001. per au ttttt tie,teml. as niece of Wales, and 17 ,1)1)01. as Duke rte '""vusit. Out ur e inch, 50,0001. eas set aside fur payment boa oleo's, and 22,0001, to sue Princess of Wales. It was mu most impolitic to insult the feelings of a wit dialed "PIP. 'lice Right Hon. Bent. concluded by moving the sabring which he had twilit:lly stated, of applying the TIM NATIONAL REGISTER. intrpins of the revenue of the Duchy of Lancaster, and of the Privy pane, to gam the expeace of the care of the Royal Person. Mr. PEIGL tkonght the proposition of the Right Hon. Gent. most nawarrantable, the indelicacy of which WAN reileenieilt by no adequate advantage. By the Acts of the 39th and 30th of the King, a privy purse hail been recognized, and inure fully by the Act of the ril‘t ; but an allowance of 60,0001. a-year had been recognised by Parliament, even before the 39th and 40th of the King. By Mr. Iliirke'a Bill the privy purse had been recognised, and estimates of expen d knee directed to be made by the Treasnry, by the Act of 1782. In 1789 a Bill hod passed that House, by which the power of the Regent, with respect to the private property of the King, was limited to the renewal of leases. The Right Honourable tientlemao had said, why Amide' not the resume ration of the Custos be taken out of the privy purse as well as the payment of the medical men. But that charge was nude payable out of the privy purse, because it had been an paid by the King. When Mr. Percival had moved the appoint ment of a Secret Committee, the late Mr. Sheridan and Mr. Adam declined to attend. on account of the indelicacy of enquiring into the private property of the King—Hear ! hear ! —and their conduct bad not been disapproved of by any of their party. Mr.. BA AK Es replied to the last Speaker, and differed from the view taken by the Noble Lord. The right of property would not he at all affected by the proposed amendment ; nor was there any reason to apprehend the epoiletion Ott private property. The suns in ipiesiitin was taiseh more than the Additional expense that would be incored by the Mkt of York. Mr. Wilmot and Mr. Martin of Galway; said, they should vete fur the grant. Mr. PROTHEIME gave bib cordial assert to die amend ment. Mr. Husatsson observed. that at the beginning of the King's reign, the whole of the Civil List had been at the dig pawl of the Crown; hot afterwards a distinction haul been made between the pa t a mlicalile to the public service and o the espeuditure ot the King. The office of the ,Royal Hake was one second to none. hot that which had also grown out ot the calawily which had induced Parliament to invest another of Ms family with the dignity of Regent ; and there retell ought not le he cons'dered as a private office. He was astonished that tientkrien (mold consider the office of Custos as unconnected with the Windsor Establishment, when, in tact, the Doke of Yid k was to have the whole contront of the Windsor Establishment. If it was the pleasure of the house to confer an arduous ditty, they ought not to withhold trout him a fair remuneration, lint not out of property placed as lunch out of their power as that of any private individual whatever. If not, let the Duke of York have nothing; but let him preserve his honour, and let Poi liament preserve its honour ...Lon,' cheering—by nut interfering with that which did not belong to them. Mr.fltisag said, the Right Hon. Gentleman had appealed to the. Howse to protect the honour oldie Duke of York, and he Loped they would, for it was only his Majesty's Ministers who haul called his Royal Higliiiess's honour in question. Hy offering his Royal Highness a renomeration, they were putting him in the aitnation of any common keeper.—Question ! question!—He was quite satisfied the Doke of Yoik would anxiously discharge his duty without fee or reward. He was willing to go any length isi reinuserating the Duke; but lie could not agree to wising from the hard earnings of an already over.bardened People 10,0001. a year. Lord Como - run agreed in the absolute necessity of economy in the present state of the country ; hat this was one of the Cases in which be could not agree. He Outright they had now, in the unfortunate state of his Majesty au opportuiiity of marking their toy - ally. Mr. MansezEtts said, lie could not agree with this vote. which was against the principle of economy imposed upon him by the distresses of the country. It was more necessary to mark their desire of eeononiy, than their loyalty, which he believed had never yet been doubted- Mr. Wtsson was not ashamed to vote against popular opi nion, it it did not agree with his conscience ; but in this in. stance he must give his vote for the amendment. Alderman W AITHMAN would not be afraid to deliver his opinion on this subject, it it should be afterwards necessary; but he hoped it would be unnecessary, and that the question would be decided that sight. But it moved his indignation to bear, that the Duke of York was willing to take the money out of the pockets of OA impoverished people, but not out of the Privy Parse. Mr. H. DAV ts spoke for the original motion. The SOLICITOR.GEMERAL thought that, if the Honse adopted the amendment of the Right Huvottrable Gentle man, they would repeal all the Acts of Parliament, regu lating and tiling the Privy Parse to be the private property of the King, and at his disposal entirely. He knew of nothing which had altered the finality of the privy purse, or which could justify the House in applying that to public uses %%hick was private property. Mr. Scaiti.Err contended, that from Mr. Burke's Act and the others regulating the ansonut, &c. of the privy purse, it was evident that Parliament had power over that allow ance. Besides savings had been talked oft now he would say that it could not have been in the contemplation of Parliament, when Mr. But ke's Bill was passed, that tiny sat phis or savings of the Privy Parse would take place ; if it had been contemplated, no man who their voted ter it would have ileac his duty to the House and tke country.— Tae object of his Right Hon. Fiiend's sietenihnent was, not to diminish the amount of the Privy Purse, tint to apply Ike •urpltss of it. nlo luau could have a higher sense of the victors and calamities of the Royal Sufferer than he had ; and if he could think that this was pi ivate property. he would be the bit man to advise its being touched by Parliament. Tl.r Sot.tcrrog GENERAL explained, and denied that Ile had ever asserted Parliament had nut the power to alter the provisions of any Act of Parriament. The Attorney General and Mr. S. Wortley said a few words. The Gallery was then cleared, ■midst a loud cry of Qies tion, and the Conainittee divided—For the original Motion, Dil—Forthe Amenilaient, 18(4—Majority for Ministers, 93. The Resolution was then agreed to ; the Chairman reported progress, and obtained leave to ail again next day. Adjourned at balf-past One. TUESDAY. The names of the defaulters at the ballot for last Friday were called over, when Lord Palmerston was ordered into the custody of the Seriennt at Arins. Soot. after the Serjeattt reported, that the Noble Lord was In Custody ; when, tivon the motion of Mr. V NSITTAR7, alter a free word& trout Mr. FL SUMNER, the Noble Lord was ordered to be discharged upon paying his fees. • • Mr. V,..N.ITTAfCT then moved the venal order respectia c defaulteur at eleetion ballot*. Mr. Su .ASV presented a Petition from the Corporation of agaiti‘t tile Catholic Claims. POOR T.l \ S. Mr. 5. BOURNE stated, that a Rill he had ildrodueed last Session, on the Subject of the Poor Lrws, had ultimately taile•l. That Bill lie wished again to tiring iu ; but should not :lien Ko into any details. The Bill bad tailed in cense. (pence of some alteration made in it by the oilier House of Parliament. The Clause that had been left taut by the other House he should, for the present, postpone; thotigh he con ceived it to be of essential Unpin lance. He hotialtl content himself at present with moving, that leave be given to bring in a Bill for the Amendment of the Poor Laws.—Le eve was accordingly given. SIR S. WILSON asked, if the Hon. Gentleman eotsldl state whether any increase or diminution of the poor tates had taken place since last session. Mr. •S. BOVRNE, said that he could not make any answer from actual knowledge; but, jittleing from conjecture, lie was afraid that in the agricultural districts, at least, there had been no diminution. Mr. BENNLT preAenteil a petition front W. Rrownjohii, as initabitaut of contplaihing of the arbitrary conduct of one of Ike Alderman of drat city, by which be had lost 10001. WINDSOR ESTARLISHMEMT. Upon the motion of Lind CASTLEREAGH, the House went into a Committee upon the Royal WllOl3Ol lE. , l4lM,liiiiient Bill. The second Resolution wa. then agreed to, that the tote& stint of 1t4,2 rd. should he appropriated, in 'utterly petineais, for the salaries of the female attend nu. on her late Nlojety. The Noble. Loll sail, :hit in inoviitg fist riot of 10,0001. annually to the Cnstos of his Majesty's per son, he wished to call Ike attention of the C.onstiettae to the ofillow, and eat to the tedivirlital be whom the office might be held. It would be inipo”iilde to enter minutely into the scale of expense that such a situation would require; though it was evident that %itch an office would be liable to malty calls. He thought himself entitled to the support of the Knot Hon. Gentleman opposite, who had made uo objection to the suns, Isti‘ only the kind lima whence it was 10 ue taken. A pre cedent had been established fur the grant, in tin case 01 her Lite Majeaty, fiom which he s4W 110 104,011 to depart. He slinsild therefore move, that the stun of 10,0001. be arante4 to the Custos of the King's person, to meet the expenses of the.gituation. _ hic.'flettagy could not see upon what grounds the Noble Lord could expect his support. It had been Isis eau nest* wish that the dis7asaion had been spared altogether. But for his his own part, he had opposed the grant when proposed fee the late Queen; and what had taken place on the present occasion should teach the House the danger of estahlishiug a precedent. He should not then take the sense of !Ire House., AK many Geottensen opposite accrued, unaccountably, not to have been aware that the subject would come on to night.— (The Minigterinl Benches were then fkin) —but he would cer. tabily take the sense of the Hon.& oil Thursday. Lord R ssct.ure signified his hostility to the proposed grant. Mr. W MTH M A :flit ill the p:esont state of the coal try, when the table of the House was leaded with Petitions. praying for relief, he had hoped that an example of economy would have commenced train the highest authority. Aiiuis ters should have advised the Hoke to take no allowance. Mr. Cuitswitu felt it his duty to give his decided opposition to the Grant. Lord CASTLEREAGH then moved that tke Duke of York shonld have the payment of the pensions grauted to the ser• rants of the kine, to the amount up to which 'key were sane• boned by law. The Noble L, td, in answer to a qtre,tion front Mr. Rasmus, stated that the Doke of Yolk nas to lase a discretistiary power as to the superannsiatiou at the servants of his Majesty, and the salaries to winch they would in conse quence be entitled, to the extent fixed by iaw for the payment of such salaries, It was then ordered, that the stuns of 11,5001. and of 12,5001. being the Inn tit parts of 56.0b01. and el 60,0001. should he made part of the consolidated fond. The Report was tuen ordered to be received ou Thursday. —adjourned. WCUNF-SDAY. Mr. DICKENSON premented the Report of the Leitrim Elm. Hon Committee, mulch confirmed t h u return of Luke White, Esq. The Deputy Clerk of the Crown attended to mead the Evesham return, substituting the name of S t C. CJeker for that of Mr. Bang Mon. Mr. S. But, Rae bronght in the PJur Lan; Arne .dams Bill.—Read a first time. Sir H. PARNELL, presented a Petition from the Rows• Catholic inhabitants of hienagh, praying fur a revision of the Penal Code, 6:c. Ordered to lie on the table. • A Bill was brought in to ascertain the tonnage of vessels propelled by steam. Read a first time. PRIVILEGE. Sir R. IVILSON having;;;Ztl;iriter of the Day for the atteuJauce of the Honourable W. Qiiin in his place, and that Menther appearing in his seat, rose, pennant to notice, to present a Petition nom Thomas Wdliant (rrady, late Clerk of the Peace for Limerick, the County fur which Mr. Q. is one of the Representatives. lo preituting this Petition, he begged it to be understood, that he was only tms vehicle of accusation ; he p referred the charge contaim J in ,the Petition with pain; bat in proreedieg be was only performing Isis duty.—(Hear D—The Petitioner stated that the itmourahle W. Quiu had been appointed Cada Rots. toritai of the County of Limerick—that when sueh appoint. mint took place the Petitiouer was clerk of the Peace ; as olive that Ice had held for 15 year s, performing his ditties for some time by Deputy on account of Isis youth ; end that Mr. Quin, au his appointment, intimated the expectation that AG.. T.W.Cs. should iv ithtli aw from his °dice ; an allowance of 2001. on condition of his giving hint support at Elections in future to the amount of 104 votes. The Petition, it will be I eculleo ted, was presented by Sir R. Wilson; and Mr. W. QM'', par suant loin Order of the House to that eject, attended iii his place, and entered into an explanation (Wins conduct, deuyieg in foto the truth of all the allegations in the Petition. nom the Hou. Member's statement it appeared, that Mr. Grady, who is at percent 23 years of age, had held the situation II years, having lieu appointe,l at eight years of age.—Mr. Quin, coo sideling him au iiiellie.ent Officer, determined to VIIIWIC him, and, on Ins represetiting that stick a step would prove his rain; Nit- Quin, trona ~,,, lives of humanity, endeavoured to pito:um Mr him, front his soccessor, the allowance of 2.)31. a year, bat the Hon. Member cloned every word of the ailegatioli which related to the rule ..1 votes of .It. Grady. tile lion. 31e.ubtr's [For the rchtaiuJL r of Um Parliament, see tie gth PJge..l