The National Register. — London, England, 1820-10-16 00:00:00

y ~~ The Earl of DONOUGHMOI(E said, that he had ne ver heard inch a speech on such an occasion as that joist delivered by his Noble Friend. In the midst of a pro• eeeding, which no one had sat to investigate, except with the most painful feelings, but which had not been pro. eeeded in from other than motives of strong necessity; and, when only a part of the evidence had been gone through, his Noble Friend hid called on their Lordships to stop short, and throw out the Hill? Was ever such a thing heard off He would not trouble their Lordships with entering into any argument on the subject. It was enough to mention the state in which matters were, to ■hew the inadmissibility of the motion made by his Noble Friend. The Earl of CARNARVON, in explanation, appealod to their Lordships whether be had made any such motion as that represented by his Noble Friend, or, in fact, any motion at ally All he had said and contended for was, that evidence having been offered of a system of bribery, on the part of a person who was an agent of the Milan Commission, their Lordship ought to suspend all other investigation till the act of bribery was inquired into; and if it was established, then undoubtedly, that their Lordships should instantly put an end to their proceeding. His Noble Friend had said shut he had never heard of such a speech on such an occasion. But " let him spew sue," said the Noble Earl, " in H►e auna:s of history snc:i an occasion, such a proceeding as the present I and I shall have no difficulty In sheaving a precedent for the course which I have felt It my duty to pursue." "The LORD CHANCELLOR said, th.►t perhaps their Lordships would be of opinion, that the witness should now be recalled. The House consenting, the witness was recalled to the bar. The witness was again called to the bar, and the question put to him: he answered—The first film I had a con versation a ith Ritetelli on this subject I was coming from the States of the Pope, and had a little conversation with him; next time I was coining from the Custom-house, and we were talking about witn ; he said lie had been to my country about witnesses; he asked one witness; that witness asked another, and that another, whether they wished to depose against the Princess, or whether they were willing to do so; and then he asked them will Sou come to Milan with me? Then we breakfasted together, from thence we went to another place,Carsona, where we dined, and from thence to Milan, to an Inn, in St. Leonard, .4 from thence before the Advocate Vimarearti, with the other witness. Did Rastelli ever tell yon he had given any of them money?—He told me he had kept them seven days in an Inn. and paid them forty fraucs. Was any thing said of u hat he had given them besides? —He told me lie gate each of them forty frmics 1 but Rastelli gave fifty francs. He bad given filly fiancs to Bruiser. Was there any body else?—Yes ; I think he meationed Francisco, Bazar, Rustle, but he mentioned them altoge ther. He added, Ambrosio, of Leghorn, also had money. Was ally thing said of their expences?—Not about the expencer., but he said when he went to my country he got a chaise and paid posting. Did he say who paid the expellees at the inn ?—He said be paid them by the dey 40 francs. Rastelli paid the ex peaces; they gut the 40 francs clear. Cruss-exansiiied by the Solicitor-General. Where did the witness go from to Milan T—From Cas soul, my cowry, to Milan. Huw many miles did they travel altogether?—Twenty eight or thirty miles. Was it 1$ or 10 miles to go to Milan P—lt was. You have said something about Raggaxoni. Where did be go from 2—Rastelli came to my country and went to the inn, and then told Bruzzi to fetch Raggasoni, who was four miles distant. You told us of a bill due to you front the Princess of We Has that hall been paid ? —Yes, she has paid me that bill. When was It paid ?-4 was paid part in January, part in March, and the remainder in April, ISM Was the money paid to you after you had the intervievi with Rastelli e—When I spoke to Rastelli, I was not paid the whole, I bad received the pert in January only. How long is it since the last payment was made by her Royal Highaws?—The end of April nr the beginning of May. Re-examined by Mr. Williams. I had 114 or 3.1 men in my employment when I came to this country. The English gentleman of whom I spoke iu talking of coming o%er to this country was a tall man, with red hair. His name is Heiny. I told the English gen tleman the sum Raul had fixed. Since I went into the employment of her Royal Highness I never knew work done in the room %Oleic the statutes were. The SOLICITOR (ire IRAL asked, whether the Italian wuril piiast.r meant column with a base, according to the signification? The Marchese SPINErti said, it meant a pile to support a root', and of any shape except that am column. To Lord LAUDERDALE.— Rastelli went to the inn at Cevarzo; told the landlord to send Jur iiozzi, and when BMW came, Rebirth sent him for the other persons, one after another. —ii.renthudiara concluded. Mr. IleoLamast washed to leans hem the Attorney General whether Rastelli was accessible or inut. Im 811011, whether lie was in the country or not as he. wished to call him, and post some questions to hint. T.ie ,trronstex Gera east, said, the Icained gentleman must first satisfy their Lot &hips of the necessity of call ing him. Mr. lintitZllAM.—lf the Learned Attorney General will infosio the that Rastelli is loot in the country, I need ups .tunble their Lordships on the subject. Ibe,l4lOßeseGElWitALsaid,that Hameln had been Sew to Moat., an a courier. with drapatchm As MICR as he hail halm this fact, and anticipating it might he neces sary again to (.4111 t 11l , he (the Attorney General) had Pent another cornier to !mug kiln back, and he believed he might speedily lie t‘yectetl. Mr. limouutiass.-1s it possible, that a person who has been raatained as a witness for the prosecution, has heels sent nut of the cuuntiy in the soviee of the Aldan Cum imissiott / 'flit ATTORNEY GENERAL said, Mr. liteegltitru had put questions to the last witness, which he c..occivell lit find nu right to put, in order to furnish glum.: fur again call ing Rastelli. file. I.lnocutiest.—My Learned Ft iend or rather thos e . who net him, must have seen, that in the cum se of nay eross-esamination of Rastelli, I laid the foni.dation ror Ls :et utativn ; and they whit (Weeded, and rested on . , -- THE NATIONAL REGISTER. his evidence, should have had him ready to be produced whtnever he might he called. If there was anything in this prosecution that ought not to have been done, it was the sending Rastelli out as an agent in this Milan Commission. Arron NEI' GENERAL said it became necessary that the friends of the witnesses for the prosecution, at Milan, should be assured that they were sale; and no person was thought so proper to satisfy them as Rastelli going with !Mete from the witnesses to their friends. Mr. BROUGHAM did 1,01 rise to reply, but to remind their Lordships that there was an end to all security against the perjury of a witness, if he was to be sent out of the country. " How," said the Learned COIHOCI, " can I go on with this ease under such cite 1111 l stances !" Lord HOLLAND commenced a very animated speech, by saying. he rose to advocate the cause of justice. The fact which had just come out at the bar of that House was most monstrous— (Hear. hear, hear.) When, at the coin inencement of this case, it was contemplated that perjury might be committed by some of the witnesses, it was asked that there should he some security, that the same cheeks and dm same penalties would be enforced as in ordinary cases. The Learned Lord ou the Treasury Bench then declared, that although Government felt some difficulty in detaining foreigners, yet that he would do every thing in hirower for the ends of justice. What now appeared?— Why, that one of these men, who may have been bribed to appear at your bar—(Hear, hear, bear)—that this man, cross-examined by the Counsel in a manner that slieweil he intended to impeach his evidence —this man bas been sent away—(Hear, hear, hear).—" I ask your Lordship (said the Noble Lord), I appeal to the common sense of the country, if you think that we, or any men have that degree of character as to with-land the odium. Rastelli was an agent, it had been said a corrupt agent to the Milan Commission. This witness who hai deposed to some of the most disgusting facts, in this disgusting inquiry, has been sent out of the country. We are told, as far as our Constitution would permit, every thing should be done to prevent any witnesses being withdrawn from justice, and yet this man has been sent away by that very authority which ought to have detain ed him. This proceeding will taint all your proceedings, and this branch of the Legislature. This affair must be set right before we proceed any further. No stronger proof of a conspiracy could exist than this monstrous fact ; and your Lordships will do well to get rid of the whole matter at once." Lord LIVERPOOL, in the most indignant manner, disclaimed all idea of justifying the conduct complained of, and defied any man to state any cirenmstauce in his public life which could give a colour to suck suspicion With indignation lie repelled the insinuations contested in the speech of the Noble Lord (Holland), which gas e an erroueons, fallacious, and infla JJJJJ iatury view of the con duct of the Guversiment—(Hear, front the aliiiisters).— " I am ready (said Lord L.) to admit that it was the duly of those who are conducting this bossiness to censure the continuance of all the witnesses for the bill in this country until it came to a close; that the circumstances of one of the witnesses being seat on; of the country pending the proceedings, was Aighty blameable; but I must acquit my. self and nay colleagues of ala know:lege of the fact—( Loud cries of hear)—and I must say, that the Attorney and Solicitor.Oeneral were as ignorant of it as we were.... (Hear, hear, hear!).—How then can we be charged with conspiracy ?" The Noble Lord then stated that the cause of tending Rastelli out of the country was the following : —ltastelli had been employed by the Commission as a messenger, and in bringing wit over to this country. After the adjournment of the House it was thought neces sary to have snore evidence, and Rastelli was considered the most proper person to toting them over to this country. He was therefore etnpleyed, but those who employed him expected hint over before the House should into. This, nu doubt, arose from an erroneous judgment, but from an honourable motive; and there existed no intention to I withdraw the witness from justice. A? soot' as the fact became known to the Attorney-Gs neral, he instantly sent a person out of the country to bring Rastelli back. Now, whether this was a ground for charging Ministers with conspiracy, he would leave it the candour of the House to decide.—(Hear, hear.) The Marquis of LANSDOWNE admitted the explanation as far as concerned the Noble Lord and his colleagues, but it certainly required the weight of the Noble Load's cheracter to defend him from the chage. The necessity of a defe.cc from the charge, was tree of the cala ttt i t les attendant upon those proceeding!.—(llear, hear, bear.)—But while the House would acquit him of crimineliiy, they were bound to consider the effect of such a circumstance, as that of a lOC they had complained, upon the int e, este of the I;ifreen. The agents of the t lfuu.e had betrayed the *lust that was reposed in them , and was it at all fitting to visit the consequences upon the Illustrious Lady ?—lt had been an understanding tints the witnesses shnuld foe all forthcoming, amongst other reasons, for the purpose of giving satisfactory explanations, upon points of evidence, to the House. Had nut that mule been found most useful in the ease of alajoeci.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—What u ere the House tothink alien that so import ant an evidence us Rastells could nut be pi odured before lie could have time anti oppertinsisy to prepare himself to meet contradiction?a And all this because the ptuple at Alden would nut be waded with any thin,; but his pa clielire to prove that there was entity In visiting England I As if !Latent was the ccrtilieste of tile disposition of the country to local a itnesses with kindues..—(A he !louse wit-humid to ‘ do all that possibly could he lfts to repair the eet of sash a course ul the Wriest, of her Majesty.—( Hear.) ' The LORD Cil ANC LLLOR mid, that be cerislinly con. shirred the StieitSUIVIS etreinely injudged. If it arose f a aret of judgment, he should give it HO harsher a shone; but if it proceeded fawn any Haw tan worse worse character, pt' imme could be too bail for it. " r cannot deuvliat tin talon ance must be made for the absence of the witness. to the Clairen's reuse, and I consider ilea those who swim the. Bill at:e to brasy, him bar I. I consider tiuukrr ex:Mite:ldiom on a future Clay cannot be so beneficial to Ito. .. nine of Pke Queen as his examination at this minima would be. You Ale biamel then, any Lot do, to make a liberal mid I nate al. loa once. I think, indeed, at is impassible to impair the injury uttoe,• Hier. But, good God ! In justice to she Quern, as well all to the country. do not close these thoccedaigs 5 his stage of the m."—The Noble Lunt ColiChldetl a •peecli, so nett he delivered with kreat energy, by canine upon their Lordships to proceed ss ith the eviderce wail the winces, should return, and upon his return, to make a large allowunce fur the tiorortutiate cations:mice that had OCCIlti ea. - . Luis' CARNARVON.—" I are *ills the Noble Libra, that she injury is irreparable ; but I must add, and iu (Mos to I Peak Octet lings of thousands, the only remedy ._` Is to put an end to these proceedings—these abominable proreedings —al toget lier—(Loted re les of Hear, and other evident marks of a powerful sensation i,t the House.) No man who wishes well to justice can wish otherwise. The Queens defence never aan be restored to the position it now bolds, and it therefore becomes sin, if we are not de termined to outrage all public feeling, all cognition sense, to disgrace the comitry in which we hold so high a (degree. ler, and to &glade even out characters, it becomes us to abandon this detestable Bill. Substantial justice can never be done in this House upon this subject ; and if we peo reed, we shall be subjected to the execration of all honest Englishmen, and the contempt of all mankind. A lissom of extensive subornation has been proved. The witness who is accused of it has disappeared. Those who con- Juliet this prosecution are I say, in fault ; and if this Bill should pass to the other House, it is impossible that it shook! be entertained for a single moment, for it would excite agitations of the most dangerous character, dis grace the prosecutors, and overthrow the most glorious of instil lit ions.'— He concluded by moving," Tilsit the House should adjourn to this digs six 1114111611!" Lord ELLEN BOROUGH said, it would be most fatal to her Majesty'. reputation to close proceedings in this stage of them. Lord GREY said, he never felt greater difficulty than at this 11101111VHI. He trusted Isis Noble Friend would not persevere in leis motion; but if he did, he should give his assent to it. The Noble Earl opposite load done himself honour by the manner in which lie had reprobated the fact of sending away this witness; but he must say it was a great deal inure than ill-judged—it was must iniquitous. No person connected with the prosecution could be igno rant of the necessity of keeping inch a witness as this seedy at band to be examined when called upon. I. what situation were the Counsel for her Majesty? They had trusted to the pledge given by the Noble Earl opposite, that the witnesses stioisid not be sent out of the way, and now that they resorted to that pledge, they found it of no avail. It was iinpossible that substantial justice could be done. 'l'o use the words of the Noble and Learned Lord on the Woolsack, an injury had been done to her defence which could not be wholly repaired. Looking at the whole proceeding, and more particularly to the situ*• lion in which the illustrious defendant was placed by the forfeiture of the ple,lges which had been given to her, he could not, if the motion was pressed to a division, do otherwise than vote for it. Lord LIVERPOOL agreed that if substantial justice could not be dune, the ease should be snspended alto. gether. But lie was convinced that substantial justice might and could be done. Her Majesty might even be benefited by the postponement of HasteliPs re-examina tion; for the effect of it might probably be to set aside the evidence of that individual and all connected with him. If the House were to suspend their proceedings, they would neither do justice to her Majesty, nor satisfy the public mind. Lords Launeaoa LS and ELLS:46OIIOO6ff followed en the same side, ag.inst the motion. Lord NlOlt . •C Y hoped his Noble Friend woold not peen his motion; a division, iu the present stage, would be ex. toemely painful to the private feelings of their Lordships. Lord ALVANI.EY wished to know who was the pylon who bad seat itastelli out of the country ? Lord LI V EH POOL.—I Wiese Air. Powell. Lord CAHN EH YON would not prey his motion against the feeling of the House, but be would only withdraw it in order to substitute another, no i.ely, that her Molest'', Coun sel should be asked whether they thought it material to the defence of her Miljecty that Itastelli should be examined immediately Lord HOLLAND spoke at some length, and with great eloquenee,ngainst proceeding with the 11.1111 e till the fact of the existence of a conspiracy to suborn witnesses should be established. Lord ERSKINE said, as his Noble Friend had agreed to anspend 'nit motion, he wished that the Counsel for her Ma jesty ahould be asked if it was material for the detnee that Rustrlii should non be called in and examined? Earl GREY moved, clout Mr. Biblell should Dow be called to the Bar of the House. JIMA Allan Powell I hen appeared nt the Bar, sod was es• animed6y Etul Gamy. He stated—l was employed its the Milan Coramission.-1 am now engaged in conducting the prosecutton. I heard toe r gantinatton of Itastelli at thi. Mow, I recommended his being sent out to Italy to moire the friends of the w it. toemes minis in this country, that they were %sell ; and that the reports in Italy of their mat-treatment were eaa,;gerated. I thought it Ito act of humanity to do so. Did you nut know, by sending Itavtelli out nut of the country, it would be impo‘-ible that he could attend here if called upon?.:—lta-telli arid aw ay on the Thursday or Friday after the utijout omega, amid I thought he would be hark before he could be wanted. I ordered him to return by the 3d of October. Who did you see at the Foreign Office f—Eitber Mr. Planta or Lord Clanwilltatn. Did you state ut the Foreign (Nice that be had been ego. 1101101 ill this Jimmie —No, but I believe that it was weft undo tsto..d that he was• Whim further stated that, that be expected Ra•telli to return, as three ineioages hail been > ut after biro; but be had heard that he was ill of a fever. _ . Tu question (rein Lord ALVA'S LEy aiteesssaid that lee Icid nu incuils of enforcing the attendance of !tastelli, if hr refused to return. It nits agreed that Lord Eti sternF:'s question to the Queen's Counsel shi.uld be put to-morrow morning. Adjouriwil at tss oily minutes to five u'i lock. ELEVENTH DAY OF THE DEFENCE. lI4TURDAY, OCT. 14. The Lord Chancellor took his seat on the Woolsack at the usual hour. As soon as prayers had been read, and the list valied over, The Eau' of CARNARVON rose, and alluded to the motion he had yestetilay made and afterwards agreed to suspend. He said, he would now, with permission of the withdraw that motion, and substitute anutlwr, to which lie ousted there %mild be little obit ctiun. But previous to snaking this motion, he wished to put a question to the Noble Loud at the head of the Treasury, respecting the pledge he bad given at the commencement of thieve proceedings, " that everything should be done to further the ends of justice, in respect to the witnesses. " lie bow %%liked to know whether the Noble Lot d bad given any instructions um the subject, and to whom! The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, he had not given any specific instructions. lie had no difficulty in esplailittilt •