The Statesman. — London, England, 1821-03-20 00:00:00

enteure •olt from enabling t he ! ne and ft . notes ur other small gums, man: • whom wr• • Ately to be susceptible of panic, t• apply fo: ;h., • ••t in coin. Fur persons bolding sae notes wouh., he event of any new war, or sudden ra nk, he likely to press upon the Bank fur cash, eitl.• 0: the purpose of immediately taking it t o the yna ,or for the purpose of hoarding. But if Mr. Hi' •-'s system were rendered permanent, one of these ives fur a tun upon the Bank would be taken , as bullion could only be resorted to for the pu pose of hoarding. With this system, then, be re;leated that at the utmost four or five mil lions in bullion would be sufficient to meet any pro bable demand upon the Bank, and to guard against any public inconvenience. The establishment of this system would, indeed, obviate the necessity of any coinage, and consequently prevent the expense which I sack coinage created, while it would also save the country from the loss occasioned by the wear and tear of coin, which loss was notoriously material, after i coin had circulated for Llf or 30 years. But to co courage the adoption of this system, the House had the exairp!e of Hamburgh, where it had long pre called, and where, through its existence, the genuine standard of value had been preserved to its utmost purity. In Hamburgh too, that system was found per- I feeds; applicable to every purpose of commercial con. venience. But, as yet, he had beard no objection in that House to the permanent establishment of this plan, lave that urged by the Chancellor of the Exchequer upon the subject of forgery. But the Right lion. tietaleniati seemed to be much affected by the pro gress of the Commission appointed to devise some means of preventing the commission of that crime : for, on his view, the question, as to the practica bility of such prevention, hail never been fairly tried. It was impossible, indeed, to fabricate any thing more clumsy titan the present Bank-note,—(hear),--ao4l theref ge lie concluded that it could not require inaeh ingenuity to invent one more difficult of imitation, if the C u maiissioners alluded to hail directed their atten tion to that object. It was found that in other coon tries where a paper currency prevailed, no such for geries were heard of as unhappily occurred in this country. Ile might be answered by a statement, that the game degree of ingenuity was tint applied to the sante purpose in those Countries. But it so !lapin neil, that in America, fur instance, the for g ery of K in k. woes was very rarely heard of, and in that country there were nutes in circulation of vat ions ilescriptiona. In France too he learned that there never was a forgery of the notes of the National Hank, until the Allies entered Paris.—(A and hear). This Bank, however, never issued any notes tinder 20/. But that circtimet4tice could offer no obstacle to forgery. Reverting to the observation of the Chancellor of the Excheypter as to the forgery of small Bank-owe., which was urged in obj ection to the permaneucy ~ t the system which he (Mr. I.) reconanientled, lie %lipid ask . idle some token, or any thing in the shape of metal, coold not be substituted for our small notes, if forgery were deemed so irremediable? Fur any substitnte 'would be preferable to a promise to pay, when there was really no I intention to perform that promise. Instead of such stuall-notes then, he would propose some gold token for parposei• of piddle convenience, as %re!! as to guard against crimes. The second remedy lie li:od to propose was, the establishment of a double standard, namely, of gold and silver. This conlil he done, lie would first say, without any violation whaterer of good faith, that is, assuming the silver to be it tlie rate of 62 pence per ounce, for then it was eqni% dent to gold at the Mint price. He had by...idea to n that lie in this instance made do not el propoLitivn ; for by the Act of 170-1 silver was made a lei , 41 tender to the stnuunt of 2:d. and for any sum above that it oas made a legal tender by weight, a'rordiug to an Act of 1790. Up then to the year 1790, there could 1.1. 10 doubt of the existence of a double standard of value in the country. This, indeed, was the ra t e until 1797, when, by an Order in Council, an altera tion was made in the whole system of oer currency. If it were argued that silver was likely to he cheap..r than gold, he would maintain. that as the object was to reduce the value of the pound sterling, or to esta lilish the cheapest standard of rattle, the argument ennui not avail. Hut the fact was, that there rvas no likelihood whatever of any material variation between the price of gold and silver, if both were established a t standards of value. In France, indeed, where the double standard had long existed, one per toil wa. the' utmost satiation that had, he understood, el er ap peared Setween the price of gold and silver. Rut the i ordinary operation of the money mariTt rvould Ile sni ttcient guarantee against any materini cariati he town those two articles in this country, where it should be recollected that the establishment Of a per fect standard of value wax not so much the e. •ith ).- ut , ta as the creation of the moans to re7ttllte the price of the currency. The Hon. Metnh•?r, after rec.,pittt %siting the objects which he had in view in recommend ing' a Committee above stairs upon th'.. • object, in which Committee, if appointed, it would i.e com; , etent to others to suggest any objections or measures which they might thick proper, concluded with prJ;;osing that the Chairntan should he instructed to move the House that it was expedient to appoint a SO:set Com mittee, to consider the Art of the 59th of the late Rini:. chap. 49 1 with a view to alleviate the pressure which the due execution of that Act less likely to pra dace upon the several branches of public industry. The motion having been put, Air. RICARDO toss, 8114 set out with remarking', that although his Hun. Friend bad pleaded so notch for the establishment of two standards of value, the tendency of his argument was to thew that the pre cious metals themselves were bait very variable and uncertain standards. He agreed in the opinion, that if it shon:rl belong to any hods- of men to diutinish or extend the current.; of the country, that power could not be vested in safer hands than those of the Bank of England. He adverted to the recommen dation of his Noble Friend. the Member for Salis bury in 1919, that gold should he paid for notes at the lime that gold was above 41. an tme. Should his lion. Friend who had jest sat dorm, accede to that proposition, the difference bettreen gold and paper was as 15$. to t 9s. at one time, and as 19s. to 2Us. in inl9. The Hon. Gentleman contrasted the argu ment of his lion. Friend that evening with the state tn. ents which h e h a d ma d e, an d t h e op i n i ons w hich hr h .." 1 "Pressed beta'', the Committee of tliat House in Itsl9, maintaining tbst they were qnitc at variance. lintas to his proposition of a double standard. would "" Hon. Friend nrri it..in that silver sitnuld be a s tandard of ease as sled as gold, wi•i*c the fu'lue' wasat 4%. or 3s. 6d. an outset, instead of ss. ttd. leaving the balance to be adjusted at the end of ten years? The variation between paper and gold had not at any period since the Restriction upon Cash Pay- melds, exceeded 10 per cent.] Rod, while it was at -the lowest, it would be recollected that the Fun;l holders were material sufferers, when gold was at the rate, for instance, of 4/., 41. 10s., 51., and even M. 10s., an ounce. Yet, because within a year or two, the pound note hsd recovered its just valve, those who were quite aware of that suffering turned round and raised an outcry against the Stockholders. His Hon. Friend had not given any opinion ar to the amount of the depreciation, and he had certainly not shewn that degree of knowledge and information upon this part of the subject which he usually displayed.— fle begged to call the attention of the House to the re- lative price of torn and bullion at the dine when corn was at its highest price. The highest price of bullion was W. 10*., and vet when wheat was 109 s. a quarter, in the year 1±,17, bullion was only 31. lbs. rid. This was sufficient to shew that there were other causes of the rise and fall in the price of cotumodities, besides alteration in the value of the currency. His Honour ahle Friend bad said, that a great deal of capital had been expended daring the war. Now he (Mr. R.) doubted whether this was a sound proposition, for he believed that the savings of individuals during the war worthd be found to have more than counteracted the profuse expenditure of the Government, and th it the capital of the country at the end of the war was in fact greater than it was at the commencement of it.— lie could nut agree uith his lion. Friend, that there was any affectation in wishitig to have a purer standard of eurrenr:.• in this conntry Goan the rest of the world. Why should we not have a purer standard ? If other countries had comni:tteil an error in this respect. did it follow that any attempt on the part of this country to mend it was a piece of colcombry, as his Hon. Friend had called it ? If with regsrml to any question of finance, we taund that our neighbours had not adopted the best possible plan, and we knew a better, it was surely justifiable in ns to avail ourselves of our superior knowledge. Ile (Mr. It.) undoubtedly did wish for a better system, and it was for that rea son that he wished to see one metal adopted as a stand ard of currency, and the system of two metals reject ed. IVith respect to the adoption of a gold token, hr thought it wool I be attended with greater dan ger, if by a gold token was meant a token materially less in value than the gold coin which it represented. The necessary consequence of such a systent would he, that the tokens would be imitated it, foreign countries, and poured into this country in motels quantities, as would very speedily produce a depreciation of our currency, equivalent to the difference between the value of tbe so vereign and that of the tokew which represented the so vereign. If he could he in.lieretl to give his consent to the introduetion of a gold token. it must be of such a calve as nearly to equal time vain,• of the sovereign. He would permit no snore alloy io the token than what n until he sufficient to cover time actual brassage or ex pense of coining the bullion into motley. Such a plan would afford a soillirient security against the inroads, and might be advantageously Adopted. It had been said, that if one metal were adopted for a standard of correney. it would be its the power of speculators to raise or lower the standard,mot consequently plsee the Bank in ass awkward predicament ; but time power which the Bank hail of regulating its issues, would always be sifficient t,, prevent any ine.nwenience of that kind. With respect to the suggestion of the Right liononrable I ;eatletian opposite for ditnissi , hing the issues of bank notes a ; a faTtirity against forgery. he entirely concurred with his Ilononrable Friend that such a plan would be wholly ineffectual as a remedy against forgery. It w.ss perfectly clear. that whether the issues consisted alto. ; ether of Ilaal.-notes, ur half Hank-notes and half in sovereigns. the danger of forgery would be just the same. The only effectual remedy against brgery would be to hasten the period at whirls the Bank might cosmetice paymoit in specie. He should be pa-truly ready to abandon his own plan, if by so doing that miist desirable object could be effected ; and be was quite satisfied that the Bank was at this tiume in such a state of preparation, that in a very few month!' they might provill.• the best and only effectual security against the imitation of their notes, loy returning to the system of currency which ex isted in this country previous to 1797. The Right llonourable lientletnan opposite had dwelt much upon the tendency of his measure to prevent the accu mulation of coin iu the Bank, as if time coffers of the Bank were overflowing with coin. Now, the fact was, that time Bank had a great deal of bul lion and very little coin. To propose a measure, therefore, for preventing the accumulation of coin in the bands of the Batik, was to provide against a danger, which was not at all likely to occur. With respect to the laws relating to Parry, he should be extremely glad to see them repealed, and h • thought no time more proper for the repeal of these laws than the present, when time rate of in'erest had ac tually sunk below 5 per em nt. The rate of interest io the market bad been invariably under 5 per emit. since 1:'19. It would he a great advantage to the mercantile interests, that the Bank of England should discount the notes presented to them, not at clue invariable rate of interest, but varying according to the alteration of time rate of interest in the market. Ile Honourable 3lettibtr concluded by thanking time House for the attention with which they had beard him. Mr. PEARSE said, lie felt that he rose tinder con iticra b le disadvantages, when the House had recentiy heard from the. Honourable Mew'er for Taunton, a speed' abounding - with so inudi knowledge and in formation. While he ailinitteil the talent of that Honourable Gentleman, he snot observe, that he ap peared to him to have started a great variety of v..ry stranae notions. lie coati' not but express nis snr prise, that after the measure of I sl9 had received the sAnction of Parliament, an.l the Bank was now ready to discharge its duty, the very persons who pro moted that measure were now the first to object to its operation. Mr. PEE.ii said, it was impossible for elagnencz of the greatest orator to have convinced him more com pletely of the policy of introducing the Act fur re moving the restrictions from the Bank, than he bad been fiv the declaration which he hail just heard from hi s lion. Friend, who was himself a Bank Director — that the Bank hail no controul %ill:dere/ over the cur rency of the country. Ile appro :died with (pester dididence, however, the arguments of the °nationals wha hail opened this debate, erpeeially as there was no material difference betwren mem in the principles r, u whieli those arguincats were fetta !ckl. Ile protest- THE STAITS4Ai4.- ed against the anclusions which the Hun. Wildman , had drawn from those principles, anti the two propo sitions which he bad recommended to the Committee. Upon the decision, as to the means of preventing for gery, he thought the permanent adoption of the Hien do plan Ivould materially depend. Although it might not be possible to take any effectual remedy against forgery, he regretted that the Committee had made no attempt to approximate at donut towards such a remedy —(Hear, Lear.) Adverting to Ireland, the Hight Honourable Gentleman observed, that in that country great progress had been made in preventing forgery by the mathematical accuracy with which globular figures were introduced upon the notes. By this means forgery was rendered, if not Impossible, at least very difficult. 'lke Right Hon. Member, after some further observations upon the effect which is re sumption of Cash Payments would have upon our currency, concluded by supporting the motion. Mr. F. LEWIS, Mr. CHI PPS, and Mr. ELLIS sup ported the motion. Mr. tilliNEY spoke a few words in a low tone of voice, in which we understood him to maintain that any proposition would be preferable to the insecurity of paper circulation. Lord FOLKESTONE thought that the danger did not consist in the mere existence of a paper currency, but iu a piper currency not convertible into money. lie hail been of opinion formerly, and he saw no reason fur changing that opinion now, that it would have been wise in Parliament to have altered the standard, before they determined on a return to cash payments. The misfortune was, that we were brought into such a situation by the system we hail pursued, as to render it inevitable that great injustice must be done in either case ; but the question was, in which ease the greater injustice would be done ? and he thought that a greater injustice would follow from a return to the established standard. If the standard was altered by a deviated law, in an open undisguised manner, it would not be an act of injustice as in the case where it was secretly done ; but when they talked of breach of faith, he nould ask what greater breach of faith could there be than the suspension of cask payments? Mr. BICAKDO explained. Mr. 1117SKISSON protested against the doetrine laid down by the Noble Lard as to an alteration in the standard, for the Public Debt was contracted o n the coisi:ition that, in six months after the peace, the original standard should be restored. The country had certainly made a great sacrifice by returning t the ancient standard, bat it was a are. Hire Wll . Ol was necessary to the preservation of its character and honour. Lord FOLKESTONE observed, that if the under.' standing was, th it in six month; I.fter peace the ancient standard should be restored, the faith of the! coultay not kept in that respect. Mr. 11.11:1\ti said, that wh..t was proposed was no novelty, but was known to the country fr the feign of Elizabeth down to 1797. Any one who measured the extent of the depreciation b y . the price of gold, must lose sight oldie state of the country. He hoped the country would not find that it had undertaken to carry more than its shoulders could hear. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said a few words, in the course of which he said, that a new stamp and paper had heen devised, by which the dif ficulty of committing forgery would he considerably increased. The Amendment was then negatived, and the ori ginal Resolutions were agreed to without a division. The House resumed, upon which leave was given to bring in a Bill founded on the Resolutions. The County Courts Bill went through a Committee, the Report of which was received, and ordered to be taken into further consideration MS Monday. On the motion fur the third reading of the Orem pound Disfranchisement Bill, Mr. SYKES observed, that if it affected the elec tions upon a more popular principle, he would have support: d it; but as that was not the case, he world resist the passing of the Bill. After enumerating his objections, the Honourable Member stated, that his wish was to see the two seats transferred to Yorkshire, which would in that case send four Members into Parliament, like the city of London. As that, how ever, was not likely to be adopted, he should content himself with moving as an Amendment, that the pre sent Bill lie read a third time that day six months. Lord JOHN RUSSELL hoped it would not be sup posed, that in relinquishing the charge of the BOLO had departed from the original line of conciliation be bad prescribed to himself, or had been itidneuced by any disgust. On the test introduction of the Bill, be. had endeavoured to obtain the supporters of moderate reform, on whichever side of the House. At first he had proposed the elective franchise at Leeils to be ex ercised by those who paid scut and lot ; then, con ceiving that there might be some members indisposed to agree to so extensive a suffrage, he had proposed to confine it to housekeepers of the pounds a-year ; and seeing the House still inclisidosed to that extent, he had further restricted it to honseteepers of 101. a year. Athongh by doing se, he departed from his d,ri:dinal intention, yet, he felt that the restriction of the elective francida e to housekeepers of 10/. a year would still admit a considerable proportion of the pourer housekeepers, whose favour and good will he thottAst it the duty of the House to conciliate. After that, he vas extremely sorry to find' that an Honour able tientleman opposite thought it right to raise the qualification to 201. a year. That, in his opinion, deprived the Bill of its popular character. His ori ginal object was to bring within the circle of the Constitution a large mass of the unrepresented people, and induce them to think that they bad Represen tatives sitting in that House. So feeling, be could no longer take charge of the Bill. At the same time be j was unwilling to lose the Bill altogether, and if the House were to be pressed to a division, be should cer- Willy vow against the amendment. 31r. C. CALVERT, although he thought that the system of scot and lot best, would certainly oppose the amendment. Mr. MARTIN opposed the Bill, and supported the amendment. Mr. 11. DAVIS made a few observations. Mr. S. IVOR I'LEY thought the Member la Hull entirely mistaken in the facts be had stated to the Howe. OR the present hers, wbith were take* 30 Years ago, there were 1.,4100 • basses, rseed.as moni more than 20/. a ear, pd he hid no doolot 111.1Hilist El c ctive*Franchise were transferred to Le*, the vase house now rated at 10/.a.year, which he did not think would be raised to 201. on the change proposed. There were 1,305 houses of this class; so that there would be at least 3,000 voters. Besides these, many would be addld to that number, from this circum stance, that persons not being householders, but being in possession of premises to that amount, would be entitled to vote. He thought that this would ninke the election sufficiently popular. If 101. had heels Liken as the qualification, there would have been 10,000 voters at least. Such a number he should con sider a great evil. Mr. SYKES explaltied. Mr. SW NN maintained, that Grampound was die• franchised because it had no Aristocratic protection. Sir NI. W. RIDLEY supported the Bill. . • The Amendment was then negatived without a division, and the Bill was then read a third time. Oil the motion for the passing of the Bill. Mr. TENNYSON moved, to strike out of the preamble the words, " the number of Burgesses serving is PArliament for the part of the United Kingdo►a called England would thereby become incomplete." Mr. U. 'MISS opposed the motion. After a short discnssion, in which Lord J. Russell, Mr. F. Palmer, Mr. S. Wortley, and Mr. Courtenay participated, the ►notion was agreed to, and the words were expunged. The Bill was then passed. The otl►er orders of the day were then disposed of, and at two o'clock this morning the House adduarne.t. ~. . . 1 0 " 11111141111 . 1 . 1 . 11 . 1 . 11111 0 1111111.11111111111111.111111111111111111111 . r • ‘• of house ;MY be petit increased, and conseqesesthr . the siansber of sows would be more_ than that saw , I er. There were at present 48b houses rated at from IV. to a year. These he bad oo doubt would be added to the former. Besides these, there was not a POLI('IL% 11OW-3 TR EET.—Yesterday morning., Ja. 4111S:reen , , a dashing liihernems, e•as charged with olyttru:ting the watchmen of St. Martin's parish in the exec.kt ors of their duty. John Smith stated, that be was the watchman of St. Martin's Court, and that on Sunday morning, he tsveen the hours of 1 and 2, in or six young men came into the court, and began to beat a paddy dow on the shop s'itan ri; he desired them to go away, which thpy refused to do ; he then sprang his rattle when one ..f them struck him a violent blow with his stick.—Three otter watchmen came to hit assistants, when lie succeeded in securing two of the party, and conveyed them to the watch-honse.—On their progress thither, the prisoner Sweeney, came up and abased them all in the most violent waver, calling them a set of thieves, and telling them that the young men should du as they pleased and he would protect teem: lie went to the watch-house and kicked up a greet rote, and afterwards collected • great number of persons about the watch-boute gates—they then took him into custody, and gave him also a night's lodging. Mr. M'Sweeney declared, that the persons trim= the watchmen had iu charge, had DOS made gay disturb *woo at all—anet that hewent tittles wia&hoass fur the purpose uf tit pasins to that elect. Mr. BIRYIE.—Did you known those persona, Sir!" Prisoner.—No, Sir, I merely neat to declare that they were nut at all disorderly; perhaps it was ratter itijndiciuns in me to interfere, but ale. ltit.~tic.—lt Sir, very injudicious indeed—e what right had you to interfere at all? you meet find bail. St. Pate irk's Dly.—A young man or respectable apprarance, was brought up, charged with kicking up a row between 12 and 1 o'clock ots Sunday omen• in!, tinder the Piazza, Covent-garden. The watchman stated, that theprisouer in company with several others, were dancing, sparring, singing, kc.—lo. ilksired thew to go away, when the prisoner struck him &violent blow, and called to a companion to rouse and give the b--y old watchman a big luttiag ; he immediately got sr, and just gave the prisoner a top sus Me Arad, which knocked him down —he then took him to the watch-house. Prisoner said, that he was au Irishman, and bat been drinking all the day with some friends, and was returning home, at the titue mentioned rather merry r he did nut recollect as , aniting complainant ; had a little drqp in his head—which complainant enth..i voured to l<t ant for hiss; for he struck him rid hs &Wellies such a violent lioff, that he mistaken to the watch-la:ruse bleeding like a bullock. :Ur. It; n I L.-A lilac drop ; aid is it a little drop, that will satisfy an Irishman on St. Patrick's day? Prisoner.—Oh no your worship; Weapon my *aril I don't remember striking him at all; and your wur ship will see that be gave me such a blow, that he fille;I my hat rills (la blood of use. The primmer !hewed his hat and head, which exhi bited strung proofs that the tap had been a very sharp 0111 P. They f ,11:)wing letter was ea Nolartley received at Lloyd's frow the Admiralty : .‘ Admiralty Office, March 1;. " SlR—tn return to your letter of this date, respe,l ing the arrival of his Aajesty's ship Hyperion from the Pacific, I Ant commanded by my Lords Costinissioners of the Adinirsl..y to acquaint you, for the infortnatioe of the Committee of Lloyd's, that the Hyperion sailed from Callao on the 12th hecetuber, and that she brings accounts that on the 6th November the Chillian squadron attacked that port, awl, after a smart action, cut out the Ermeralibi, Spanish frigate; hut Lima had not been flip. tured, nor was it considered to be in any immediate danger. (Signed) J. W. CROKIiii. .. - To Mr. John Rennet, jun." Saturday last was the last Day of iliawing the Ntate Lottery, and it also terminated Meal Ors. Sivewrlghts' Contract with Government ; of courealtall the Thteo 21,0001. Prizes, and other Capitals that reruainedits the Wheel, were then drawn. Two of the Pli2Ci of Twenty-One Thousand Pounds were told' ht that told favorite of Fortune. DISH.-4/ne was sent to Dtt,Witt, where it was shares! by Mr. Callwell, one of ite Irish Otfice-Leepers.—A new Contract is to be made frith Government this day, fur another Loyal, ado me hope 3lessrr. Siyewrights may again he the Contract•ta„ as they not only matte very brilliant Schemes, but.iontntir seems to smile on their plans, fur we always qbserve a great nnutter of Capitals .are distributed In tlivir Contracts, and in the last Contract alone there ha 4 been no less than Seven Pukes oftl,lloo/..7tratOdoaad Two 21,000!. sold in whole Ticket*, 'betides•le im mense number of minor Capitals. I P"" -