The Statesman. — London, England, 1814-11-12 00:00:00

' empp.=.- 4 Ming was rn strict conformity to the cases provided. They were first called out in the sewed years' war, when invasion was actually dreaded.. Their next summons was in the course of the American war, and this still strengthened his principle. The war began la 1774, but while it continued only with America, - the militia were net embodied. Here was a state of war ; but as there was no fear of invasion, the Act. Vas not put in force. But towards the close of Amp ',liar, When France declared, and Spill/ivies. the pilaf sf hostilities, invasion was justly to be expected, and therefore, and then only, were the militia em. • bodied. The dread of ;evasion wee immediate, the 'French and Spanish fleets were soon directed to the Channel, and the country was, of course, put la array. The third calling out was in 1781, when Siert was the case of a dreaded inperection ; and, perhaps, no man now living knew better than hint. self (Lord Grenville) the extent and depth of thaki danger. The last period was at the beginning of the. war which bad now closed in Europe, and when, se he firmly believed, the determination to invade. the realm was fully formed. Yet even in the case of that Insurrection, which was probably the most pressing . and formidable of all those periods, the House judged' ft proper to examine the grounds of. embodying this' and Committees had sat open it for a contd.' derahle period. The evil did not end in the simpti Illegality ; it impressed a most serious , ..ittjustiee4,l* . the country. The remedy of moistly mentioned the Noble il iecreary was comparatively uothing.-4 Th. eatiorg# parse was always the resort, and this easy resort.- bat it was the personal privation, the necessity o f the individual in one county being 'Vb.' ,feel to the ballot, and forced into military service, and made liable to martial law,: erblle in ethers * was free. Lord SlDlloooTH.ebeitly . explained. The No. , Me Lord's (Grentille) bets would serve him nothing, unless he could show that the militia were disem bodied the moment the first cry of invasion or inane. melon was ever. If they were kept op after that necessity, they were kept op, as.appeared to him, on the principle for which be contended, and• against that which the Noble Lord persisted in quoting as the law of the lend. But in the seven:years' war there. was no dread of invasion, and yet the militia were called out. As to-Committees at the period of the threatened insurrection, the militia were raised at the end of 1792, and the Committees were not called for till 1794, thus allowing a yiar and a half for the mfitttia-tego en without enquiry. The militiamen's oath favoured the principle. 'the ballotted then was to be discharged at the end of five years ; the sub stitute to be reedy for service at any time during the war while his regiment was 'embodied. His Lord ship pointedly disclaimed the construction that the King was empowered to put the subject under martial law by his prerogative in any instance but that of actual isivasimi. Lord DONOUCHMORE was surprised to find that the measure of retaining some of the .militia re giments embodier!, while some were dismissed, was' iateaded to be permanent, as he conceived, from the intended introduction of a Bill. He thought there might be reasons of patronage connected with this" choice which 'should make the -House lisek.earefotly to it. He did not kunw how far in England the up. pante-vents to those regiments were considered of Importance ; but in Ireland he knew that they were generally thought one of the best things that could be given away. Ills Lordship then adverted to the state of the Roman Catholics, and enquired whether• there was any idea of amelioration on the sated , since the restoration of the Pope. lie then touched on the Bills introduced for Ireland at the close of the Session,and contended, that of a set of bad Bills Govl verntsent had chosen the worst. Lord 14V ERPOOL wished to correct some mis: H conceptions of the Noble Lord (Denoughasore). In the first place, there was no notion of turning the present state of the militia disembodying into a per. manent measure. 'fbe Bill was merely to relieve thts;' townships of the private and partial pressures of the militia, such as providing for the families, and other ieconveniences of that astute. On the subject of the Catholics, he * nail* said, that the former circles. , stances of the Pope made the only or the greatest hairier to the Catholic claiths; and as to Ireland, tilt , operation of the Bills, end particularly of that to Which allusion was ma de by the mime of Mr. PeeWs Act, had been Core for the purpose of prevention than panishment. It had been judged,-and as it ups' peered rightly judged, that the very passing -of those Acts by the Legislature would hare the effect of intimidating the offenders contemplated by them. • , The Marquis of BUCKINGHAM professed Mei. self dissatisfied with Lewd Sidmoutit's esplanade& • • Lord GRAN VILLE said, that the true greenlet keeping np the militia at present was our keePlisgo .. force on the Continent. . 4, The question was then put, but in so In, is J ews that we could not ascertain how it all decided. The Marquis or LAINNIVVVNE gave notice of a motion for Monday, for Copies of the engagements entered into with, foreign Powers, for the maintenance of a British forte on the Continent. Lord LI V,EHPOOL mentioned, that donbtless such engagements had taken place, but that they had not beets laid on the table, because the ratifications of all the parties had sot been yet obtained. The communications, however, might be laid on the table without a motion, simply by a command. • . Lord LANSDOWNE preferred a motion, and Copies of the Engagements themselves. The Lords were ordered to be summoned for gave notice of a maiden fat; Monday, for the Minutes of the Court on Capt. Barclay and his Officers, for the action on Lake Erie; not, as he said, with any idea of casting an imputation en the conduct of those gallant men, hut to show the Inadequacy of our preparation for We war on the Lakes.—Adjourned. Is of 110 USE OF COMMONS. The SPEA - kiiit informed the House, that in pur *mince of their Resolution, the Address of the House had been presented to his Royal Highness the Prince Regent who had delivered a most gracious sower, thanking them for their loyal and dutiful Address t she sentiments it contained afforded fresh proofs of their attachment to his Majesty's House end Government, and had greatly contributed to ad- ~~. 'ATESMAN. Vied, of thl Mr. tioas.- 1 0rd Mr. W A ries of iv. riving D-ek Ark._ Ting (1 an Account of all al ap..auti all Bilk. of ET- real,. - After some conversation between Mr. T 1 EitNNY and the CHANCELLOR of the EXCH EQUERi It . was agreed that the following Papers should be laid before thel Howse An itccomatt .if nisrunded Debt and Evehemser Bills bar 1814. An account of the number of Bank-antes In circulation on the Ist of November, 1814. An account of the net proceeds of the War Tares. An account of the di,iribution of the Vote of Credit 10,011 f service of the year 1814. .• .3 An account of the deficiency or sitrphuthi the. Fund to April. 1814. • le a Mr: TIERN bY .gave notice, that nallimllll4 move for certain Papers relative ti, the Civil List., The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHMIDER then p irated that he should defer his Motion for the erectioll to Gen. Rose, till Monday. • - NAVY. Mr. CROKER moved for leave to brink ii .1 Bill 1" to encourage and reward the Petty Officers, See men, and Marines, for long and faithful service*.'". He stated, that the object of the 13111 was to put the two services of the army and nary, as much as poti. sible, upon an equality ; and he thought that th.: fends of Greenwich Hospital and of the cheat united, would go a considerable way tnwartliinier• log the expences. If any deficiency 'should arise, he trusted that the House would think proper to supply it out of the public money. At present,' there was this difference between the army and the %levy : the whole eapences of the former 'were, borne by the public, whereas the espences of the latter were defrayed by thernselves,—by the contributions which they made to the funds at Greenwich. Froas the peculiar character of the war doting the last . year, the services of the seamen and Royal Marines had been felt its a less striking manner than these of the army ; but the exemplary conduct of the navy deterred the best thanks of the country, and .the Reuse bad frequently expressed their admiration and approbation of such conduct. He trusted, there fore, that the House would concur in the object of the Bill. Mr. WARD asked, if it were intended to make any provision for half-pay for Masters, Mates, mid Midshipmen ? . . Mr. CROK.ER replied, that the subject liekbesii . considered, and found to be utterly. impractianido7,l A liberal" promotion, however, would be made of such as were found to be entitled to that reward r and others would be maintained in full pay, arid kept in his Majesty's ships that might be in commis. sion. It was intended, that the pensions to be , granted to the Marines should be the same as that given to the army, and that the seamen should be placed On the same footing, u sear is the difference of the services would Owe% A registry would be kept of " - - . come to feiture Mug of the ingratitude of the Spanish it watt known that >< large debt from Spain to: this country. He wish. 'hether Sae setns paid were really da: Ti ttipitio, or um part of a ;yen, alba; pretence of an existing and M would without then brougi time, and printed ) time on Monday. coUßT.Maltirtity. Col. PALMER stated Ms *pet at being obliged to cell the attention of the Hewn to *subject which he conceived to be of the greatest importance, not only to the iudividuals immediately concerned, but to the honour and interests of the profession to which they belonged,--he alluded to the Court-Mar. tial which bad been held upon the Commanding Of. titer of the regiment in which he had hitherto had the honour of serving; that, as far as related to himself, nothing shotild have induced him to trouble the House, as he conceived that his own character stood unimpeached upon the face of the proceedings, and that it Was unnecessary fOr him to justify himself* from nay censure that had been cast upon him; het' that he felt it necessary to come forward in belialf others whose conduct had been 'Dimly relleclid , upon. He should therefore move, in the first .18. 1 stance, that the proceedings of the Court-Martial' upon Col. Quentin should be laid before the House l l and should afterwards consider what further steps 14 1 would be proper for him to pursue.—[Hier !) Mr. HARING seconded the Motion. . The SPEAKER said,lhat he conceived the pro. per way of pr in in this cal was, to presents an humble .Address the lions to the Prince Re.' gent, praying, that his Royal Highness would be. pleased to order the proiieedings to be laid before tb4 . House: 'This was agreed to be the correct mode, OA Palmer put it in writing. -4. Mr. MANNERS SUTTON then rm.,. end eakie , that -he supposed the Honourable Member had been cheered, bemuse it was considered , that he bad stated such grounds as justified him in Making hie motion ; but no one ground had been stated by the Honourable Gentleman. He evil% lowlier, to adduce his reasons before he called upon' the Raw for the proceedings; and he (Mr. S.) thought it un necessary for him to suggest a thousand reasons why they should not be laid before the House. lie. thought it better that the Hon. Member should then withdraw' his motion, and give a notice for another day. Col. PALMER. said, that he should be obliged to absent himself nest week to go to France; sad he wished. that the proceedings shoold be laid epee the table, in order that the Hoeft might 'have Om to consider them before his return. •• After some conversation between . Mr. Wllllibtead, Mr. Tierney, and Colonel Patnerothelleses! %reed to withdraw his motion, and gave setielightlimgdity neat. PRINCESS CR*ll4O2lll. ' Mr. MARTIN asked the ihmaingur of ft. is. chequer, whether any establilllanat he made for . her Royal Highness ' lotte. The CHANCICLOR of the way.. mid, that he bid net received any eistamma; from the Prince Regent on that subject. The House they went into a Committtee *flap*. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER . 4. 1 .1 ;to _ IR ' difaie s beak' resolve I intWili . floii.Ge :lemon; be was fully aware of • es . , to cousidvaly 'ef die his service. 4 As,: .... • 0 41 , 44 " 1 7•4_i.i. '.. ~', ! , Mr. BARING and Mr. TIERNEy 0m ,.., .. , i ponoN•tto she d to soolO.wi shee 11.40 w what sums had been tarnished fee the ...l6U S I t i l **sin the intention - of the Chancellor ' t +e xche- Army ? Punk goer to give a general state nest el the financial i The CHANCELLOR of the Itteiltru, ansditien of thecoriwtry •440/44.00111Pre4 leit-tiviiiid i that there had been an a - "luElt greet-Rent by which it. ostpply. '' . i two teillioni yearly were furnished. , - gilt • " ( The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, Mr. NYHI'f BREAD allowed thie,(l o /,_ told, that he certsintrintinded to- give ouch agent- here was - a:separate engagement .. The --; "" rat statement as, to the best of his judgment would of Spain having brought the war in which H wy ha , be necessary. , i been engaged to a successful termination- - 7 ' ' Mr. PONSONBY insisted, .that thefollest infer- ; having been concluded, we engaged iiii t - i *Salon was necessary before the House ought to be . that Government for. the pierpit t p '.. .. ° r ' ' ''"rs ... .„.. ewo b ih4 'celled upon to grant large supplies. \ troops to return to their respective •Wonses Ir T ' • The House ; then went into the Cometittee, and Mr. Government was„ however t • overtirned by 0 1 , Bregden (the Chairman) read that part of the Re- and it appeared probable that the mone y LR. 'gent's Speech which related 'to the arrears. into the hands of the King • and that he ts a r ''. The CHANCELLOR of the. EXCHEQUER , iissiited In the destruction of ;he very kody w f t e viiiii iii % paid, that as he sh'oo)it new merely"move that a sop. our engagement had been made. 'ply be granted, she did not apprehend tbathe need Mr. WELLF , SLEY .POLE; saio, that the 0.. enter upon any minute details ; hereafter, when he Gentleman perfectly misfiuderstood the . l A' 'hobic!' apply for particular sums, he would tarnish [Hear, hear 1 from Mr.. Winlbroasl.l-11 0 kE n the appropriate information. that he might be heard ence - for the' 1, - wry' s alAt . .. • ',, Mr. HORNER observed, that as the Speech at. man's twenty times. The tin. Gewit e o . s i • laded to large arrears, and as it appeaiettfrom a slip not. expect that the /loose vitteid he dllpf a: of paper on the table that ten millions were due on war, we 1 . to hear him and tie putt art else. - The • f art illwasAro i the army account, independently of the nine mil- 'this—that at the oeseluslon of the lions which were last Session anticipated,. be lipped bound ourselves en pay to. Spain a sum su e r the House would nol continue to vote million after enable the gpatilsli . fret* Ito , Muhl to ti tt i re million, without requiring the most minute and al". This agreement was„,."afilY on the OrinciPle rif7,4 elle information. whom , we subsidized, it was the .same wkie,,Z , , entered into by the Area" of rano with ih e p 1 - °e sti i The - Cli4NCt- LLOR of the EXCHEQUER was made with the Cortes, or *kit the 104,7 1 ; I ' replieol l • titat It certainly was his intention to furnish truth, he believed the 'kink of Nilo he s t ( epepy detail In his power; that exact details espe. nets* before the conclusion' 'of .The:Teinity of Peace. g e . iviejly as to the army service, , could not be. details, - that as it might, Sir Henry Wellesley did, with* niently given, till the close of the year ; he • should, existing Government 'of t ' SONO,: Whether ki il if however, be able to present a statement of con- Cortes, make en arrangement for the retina it siderable exactness as to the expenditure of the se. .42 veral branches of the military service, whether in Spanish troops. It was his dirty to do i e ; engagement which he lied made was confi rmc d hysii : France, or Spain, or the Netherlands. This was British Government, although•no formal 'T reaty if * all he could do. He allowed that the expence had entered into. Now-hrot this cootd,be converteshhee been enormous ; yet he thought, if it were compar thepaymentof a :aim to the king of Spain to satie. ed with the splendid advantages acquired, no man gate the Members of the preceding Govern aestlii i ' would say that they had been bought at too high a i rice. The outgoings of the war in Spain and kiew-nc " France - were immense; out of the nineteen millions Mr. WHITBREAD professed himself te ry 6....: to hear again the well-modulatedvoice of - tbe tier i much the greater part had been applied to that Hon. Gentleman,, but thought that On extrlordioi l i i fiervice ; great arrears had been found to be due to regret was due, to his silence, us without d ou b t Abe army, which for want of the proper resources would make large ameeda by frequent, s eee ki si of ezeloangn could Rot. possibly be defrayed till the future : a very few days would clear all his a, .o. l ling a the peace . Before that that ' time it was as in talking, .44 l augh,.] But as to the docament, Musk as the country could do to meet the current for it now appeared that some document existed rile eitimences. - ' wished to•isk why It was notproduced ',...31r, BARING hoped that the etise would pay- Mr „ * v etu t .1. . I said that certainly .t re enir lipttleater attention 'to this' eubject,°.and would.alit .dec — o;n ' e l n - t•4:_bu -.. t - wheth . er* it could be pteuc e d is, direct its enquiries to the method - or auditing lied' an other . thing, For hts own part he had so long* counts in the Peninsula ; for he iiad ' personal reason , sarttness , to, th e troublesome questions which the He entire's% for the lot W years, had been so hi , to know that considerable :buses prevailed in, the Commissariat. The settlement with the Court .of of put;.:ng, that he should recommend to hit Spain demanded investigation; it appeared that this vibes i _ leagues not.t e . answer a question • till they had" country was paying large sumt . to . Spain, . 1 ! a ay to . d,eithtliste, - -- • .Mr.'ivtirrisaEriD observed, theklie Sheik, e ...' . .tinue the practice which he- had pursued-fatten:l4 years of asking questionson matters of poktkista rest, Whenever' they !eight •ti ppear to bins kbeasli . cessary t .nttwitliscitudins the remarks of pie .• • Honourable nentletnan. If any of amer • • should be addressed to the Right lion: Gentl. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHI;',QUER who had just exhibited so much coolnes s and . answered, that as to the abuses i n fh commissariat, should take until the morrow to consider of I : the Government wooldhave"been obliged to him if he reply, all : that hre(Mr. Whitbread) would do wee had communicated to them what he knew on the be to put the widen .again on the morrow; 'Object. As to the debt due to Spain, he was at a this practice be week! fereevere io with as math •. less to know what the Ifonoirrable Gentleman could termination as ft was his intention to persevere is mean. • In fact, Spain owed a very large debt to , the practice of :speak* as often as he should think , this country; yet as the Spanish army serving un- fit on any question when the House was in Commit.' der Lord Wellington was in British pay, it was ne- tee. lie hoped the Right honourable the*Chancellot l cessary to pay to,them the arrears which were due to of the Exchequer weld not be induced by the aol them. . . example of his Right Honourable neighbour to with. Mr. BARING said he had not pretended to pus- hold information which it was consistent with ha Joss any eery important information as to the Com- sense of public duty to communicate, although k usissatist, but what he had' he should mention in might be asked by one not much in the habit asap Proper time. Astto any communication with the porting Administration. 'treasury, he could state a reason why he had not Mr. PONSONBY trusted that the Right Hoe. Referred that mode. A friend of his, a practical Gentleman's adeioe to his Right Honourable Fried Man s , and well informed on the subject, had, in the would not answer its purpose. It was now evident tloss sr Mr. Percent, made a communication of that there were more agreements than one, and he soma abuse,: no notice - was taken of the matter till . hoped the Right Honourable the Chancellor of the 'along time afterwards, when the Commissary came Exchequer would gee that their production was saw- Iwo Spain, and kis (Mr. B.'s) friend was informed, tial. The Right Honourable Gentleman asked- for that if he bad any charges - to make, he had now an a large sum,' partly made up of the money granted opportunity. • to the Spanish Government, when the war was at are Mr. HUSICISSON did not recollect any informa. I end, and when Spain owed us an Immense sum.— trt of the kind mentioned by the Hon. Gentleman I This appeared to him to be a very grave and fit sub. rating been communicated -to the Treasury depart- ! jest for enquiry. impot. As to the present subject, the Tact was, that Th e 'CHANCELLOR o f t h e EXCHEQUER d e . the Spanish troops had been raised and served under : c l ue d, e l that he never denied the existence of a coat d r . faith of a subsidy from this country to "PPM' respondence involving the agreement alluded to; be them ; at the time of the peace arrears were due . , .t Ant only denied that there had been any distinct' tbem, or rather to at dif f erent contractors who eau* Subsidiary. Treaty. Ile sans persuaded that the supplied them with. necessaries, and it would kire House and the country would never have 'thought it been unjust to have called tryen the Spanish Govern. ,'tight that any of our Allies who had been fighting meat, embarrassed as it was it -the time, to make under our banners should be dintissed, without tie gilsthe engagements whicinad•bee - a made with the means, of repairing to their respective homes. h Government, " '.' ' i Mr. BARING acknowledged, that the more hi ,Mr. WHITEIREAWeiIIiowed else force of that heard of this business the more suspicious it herture. .oluervatiou,, bek.sat i ,the,eemsr time insisted that it He repeated his Honourable Friend's hope, that tit iihoild clearly be explained, whether the sums which Right Hon. Gentleman opposite would not persuade ha been paid to the Spanish .Government since the his colleognes to abstain from answering any fit qvsh. Race had, in fact, been applied to these perposes,'; dons that he might be put to them. or had been used for the despotic objects which Fer-il . sr, NY: ,PQLE complained of misrepresentatiete &and .had pursued towards his subjects. It was All that he had said was, that when papers were net enough to trey, that a sum for a particular par- leaked fort the prOpriety of producing which it mu . . had been paid to the. King of Spain :it should impossible immediately to ascertain , he would re- 1 shows that it had been properly applied. Hsu commend to his Right Hon. Friend ' to repeal' . ' ratolated the House on the accession which then giving any answer. The inclination o f his oi tpdennt metier of the Exehigosr had received in the per.. t o grant every informati on w hi c h cou ld b e `r a n ted o i . . , - of the Honourable Gentle Man : he now' h o ped . with prudence and saf et y. , t . ;/ ois those plans of 'economy. anti controul Ind The Resolution was thee agreed to ' and d. RO' „hence which bad so long been the kvourtilitheme of port was ordered to be received to-morrow. • the Bon. Gentleman would be put in execution, and, Mr. BARING:gave notice, that on Tuesday he that the country wools; reap the advantage of his vigi- ; would move for the . production of the agreemeet Ana, both in probing obi Wounds ) and in. adminis- whicii had just been th e se hje ct o f conversat i on . riMfreels strength. „ , I The CHANCELLOR of she EXCHEQUER ski CIIANCELLog. of klet EXCHEQUEIV pressed his re adi ness to. proclaim lite subatance of that , , 11. r , - mould say merely as: ' bra to the mode of the agreement, although it would' he impossible to pt°•,` payments in Spain. had 'usually been m a d e re duce the agmernt itself. . ' - .1 theme sh the osedieM of the Spanish Government, who 1 . Lord PALM ERSTON presented certalutslhastil bed then transferred Waste the direction of the Duke by order of the hope. a Wellinteii Oka the peace, the Ambassador r Sir General GASCOIGNEOid4Sitirig 'to the inciaw 11.:Welleidey, Sad been the organ of these payments. which had been made. in the pensioneof the widows On the subject of the assistance of his lion. Friend, of officers of the navy and marines, wished to kniov be was as reedy to congratulate the House as the whether the Noble Lord intruded to propose set f the seamen, and they woold be called to fact (to say nott o the service of their country, with a for. G overnment ) i t of pension it they niteeed. Marten s Mates, wet owing from lidshipmeu ,014 indeed, yea lagetinamdso, etl?to know wl be ai I owes; saexthaliser! Asbt. it prejudke"to thew rig is in the Wavy. a 'subsidy give rought up the BM, which was reed a first , d e b t ? sod ordered to be printed, and reed a second j wk . fin A %Tr