The Statesman. — London, England, 1823-03-04 00:00:00

p i e sod 64th years of the reign of hie said Majesty, for the go temption of the Land Tax, shall be charged upon the p oi Consolidated Fund. That it is the opinion of this Committee, that Ris ex rellentthat the several Acts for the Reduction of the Na oast Debt should he altered and ascended." • The first Resolution having been read by the Chairman. Mr. LEYCESTER was of opinion, that instead of in volving themselves in useless and speculative calculi'• one the house would do its duty more faithfully to the people if it were engaged in sympathizing with their ' satkings. He condemned the maintenance of a Sink ing Fund, in the present circumstances of the country. to its origin,the Sinking Fund was an excellent plan, but at the present crisis of the affairs of the country, it deserves no better name than a financial folly. It was unreasonable—it was useless, and created only a neces sity for continuing freash burdens on the people. He could understand that the threatening attitude of France st this moment was a reason fur continuing the Sinking Pond. Bet he warned the house against imposing L lasting evil on the country to seize a temporary advan tage. If it was necessary that the country should exhi bit itself in a tituation capable of resisting aggressions, he should recommend that strong, unfailing resource— tbe sinew of war—the properly tax. Mr. ROBERTSON adverted to the different cirenm stances molar which the Government was compelled to borrow fluting the late protracted ear from those under which she borrowed seventy years ago. The mode in which thietlovernment now proceeded in their financial cperatione war rstetel hint in saying. however singular tee amortion might appear, that the more the country paid, the more it had' to pay. To solve this It was only in to state that for every small sum the Govern ment borrowed, they promised to pay a much larger one. He stated, on a former occasion, that seventy years ago the Go/cement borrowed money at a much more be tie facial rate than at present. Fur every 100/. actually paid lute the Exchequer, they paid 3/. interest. At present they borrowed at 5 per cent. promising to pay for every 1001. actually paid in:o the Exchequer 1661. Daring eVery saceeisire period of 7 pars, the teriuson which we burrowed became more and wore infra:ow aisle to us. I o ISI3 um . herrnated twenty-seven millions, and promised to pay 45 millions. In . 1814 we borrowed 24 millions, peel ptone'weed to pay 32 tailbone. In 1815 we borrowed mill:one, an i promised to pay sixty-six mfl .The last into was funded at M. and a ho us was given to the contractor of 2/. 13s. 6a1., reducing the stud paid into the Exrheqtter to 511. 6s. 6d., for which we engaged to pay 1001. Sib that, it would he seen, we leave borrowed at a rate of 6 per cent. Allusions hod been matte to the Sinking Funds of other countries as a proof of the excellence of tne system, but lie thought without sufficient reason. Allus'on bad he. n made to America, but it should he recollected, that though Ame rica, in 1813, borrowed 18 millions and a half at 6 per cent., not being able any longer to get money on such good terms, consented to give 1001. for 901., with the same interest; and afterwards, when the President named money, opt wishing to continue terms so disad rantageons to the public, issued Exchequer Bills, and with the assistance of these, terminated the war. As to . Fleece, and that was her sore side, she was obliged to borrow from this country when she wanted, and pay 15 or 20 per cent. Russia had a debt of 48 millions, fur 26 el whit It she paid no interest, till the Netherlands awl we, with our Usual generosity, consented to pay half of it, anal yet these were the countries instanced to us of the creel effect of Sinking Funds. In three years we bad contracted a debt of 53.000,0001., which was much greater than the debt of Holland or Iberia, and three times greater than that of America. This system greatly , injured the country, by adding to the burdens of the pro ') ple. Ile preferred the evil of a Sinking Fund, because it kept down the rate of interest, and thin enabled our manufacturers, notwithstanding the great burden to Jrhich th ey were liable, to surmount competition o n the "Coutinent. Ills great ohject was to remove the absurdity of borrowing a small sum of money at .a high interest, and paying a larger stint. Until such a system were alone away with, the country world go on in a I oars. which would ultiMately end in her ruin. He had already mentioned that it was his intention to give notice of a motion for the removal of this system. and he thought the present a proper time to state his view of it, that every Member might come to consider it with his mind duly informed upon the subject. He, for his part, could not adhere to a system of error—a system which held out that the debt was decreasing, ashen in fact it was in creasing in the same ratio. To such a system no prin ciple of integrity or morality ought to induce them to adhere—a system which would end in the sebversion of eocial order, and eventually iu the subversion of the throne itself. because if once the aristocracy went, the throne would follow, and he was satisfied such would be the effect of this system, if continued. It was said that we could no do this, and at the same time adhere to pub. lie faith ; but this he denied, because we should wily consider a hat would have been just at the time the delft was contracted, and take this sum along with the com pound interest front that time as the fixed capital to he paid off. This would do away with the evil of stock. jobbing. It was well known how ingeniously the ma nes eel num played their parts. it was in vain for the Chaucelkir of the Exchequer to think of contending with men who had been always trying to put into practice the suggestions of their selfish passions. Mr. Ill: ME said, that before the Resolution was agreed to, he felt it necessary to offrr a fete observations to the Committee. He lead beard with muck surprise the state► ment made by the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Ex cheqner ; that statement was entirely contrary to the do cuments which had been laid on the table ; he hoped, however, that the Chancellor of the Exchequer would take an early opportunity of laying upon the table the clarninents from which he made up his accounts, in order to give members an opportunity of comparing them with those ale ady on the table. It was impossible to attempt surthing like argument with respect to the Sinking Fund, while the public accounts were kept as they were at present; for be would undertake to prove, if a Coin tette e were granter!, that there were not only three, but hoer or live sets of public accounts, each of which was at variance-with 11. e others. The Chancellor of the Ex chequer had stated this amount of the Debt at two pe t..ous, Jan. 1816, and 1823. For his part, he was at a loss to know whether those s'atements were correct, in . eunuch as lie knew of no documents for the year 1816, which, including the Irish Accounts, contained the ne eessary items; indeed, up to 1817 no such documents had been published, except perhaps cne of the Accounts which lie bad mord for, and which was masked No. 35, of the Accounts presented in 1819. He assured the Com mittee, and be was prepared to prove the fact before a Committee, that the diminution alluded to was by no meansse great as it bad been stated to he. " He was pre ; erect to show that the greater part of the stain said to have been cancelled' by the operation of the Sinking Fund since 1793. wont , ' base fallen in by the dropping ctf of yensiois and annuities, even haul vo Sinking Fund existed. It apps ared that the interest and charge of the pehlic debt had been at the former period, 27,000,0001. : added to which, the interest of Exchequer and Irish Treasury Bills, being upwards of three millions, made - a total of 30,450.0601.; while at the latter it was 33 8.74.0001. ; here then was an increase of expenditure amounting to upwards of three millions. This was so es ilitoreiinary a difference, that he took an opportunity of inquiring at the Treasury about it, and in fairnew lie felt hound to state that the difference arose from a mistake to the amount of 2,100,0001. made in making np the ac counts; but even making allowance for that mistake, there was still an increase of upwards of 1,000,0001. He would nut take the y. ar 1816 as a fair comparisou with iZr...,a. . THE STATIMMAN. 111; present or former year, inasmuch as, hedependently of the mistake, certain arrears had fallen in which wt're not to he expected in other years. He won Id therefore commence with the year 1817, and proceed up to 1821. The inter est and management of the National Debt had been as follows For the year 1817 1819 1820 1821 . £31,266,601 . 31.351.751 . • 30,792,1125 . 31,252.612 . 31,966,076 In 1822 the charge was 31,986,0001, making an increase since 1817 of upwards of seven hundred thousand pounds ; that this increase had taken place he pledged himself to prove before a Committee of that Huns No thing was mere absurd or fe!lacious than the system upon which our Sinking Fond had been conducted. But be fore he proceeded to point out the opera'ion by which that Fund was managed, be wished to say a few words as to its origin. It was established by Walpole in 1716, —in 1727, it was increased by a suns of four buialred thousand pounds. It went on increasing for some years. until a reduction of the interest took place; it was redu ced from six to five per cent in 1727, from that to four per cent. a few rears after, and at a still later per'o I to thrt e per cent. This raised the Sinking Fund to 7,000,0001. - lint in one year they took 6,638,0001. from it ; —in the following year they also took from it, and thus they went on until they left not a shilling to be applied to the ori ginal purposes of the Fond. After alluding to the ob servations of Dr. Price, the principles of which are so well known, in support of his argumcn's with respect to the Sinking Fund, the hon. Member proceeded to state that the actual amount of Revenue derived from taxes in Great Britain. from the sth Jan. 1793, to the sth Jan. 1817, eels, 1,114,318,5631. and the expenditure during the same period for charge on the Debt, as it stood prior to the sth January 1793, for expences of civil "Govern ment, the navy, ordnance, army, ordinary and ewtraor dinary, miscellaneous services and ch arges of manage ment, including a 15058,164,7161. for subsidies to Foreign Power', and 16,685,1241. balance of amount remitted to Ireland, and hi fact including every charge, except that charge on money borrowed since 1793, was only 1,252,667,6031. excess of expenditure over income, 138,349,0041.; to cover which no less than. 618,163,8571. was raised by creating 879,289,9431. of nominal capital, and increasing the issue of Exchequer Bills 33,289.8001. at an annual charge on the Funded Debt alone of 311,179,3631. out of which 188.522,2401. was paid to the Commissioners for retlacill the National Debt, with which they reprehend Stock, the dividend on which antoureed to 9,168,2331., leaving an anneal charge in perpetuity of no less than 21,006.1301., in consequence of not having raised the 138,349,0401. in taxes during the 24 years, or about six millions a-year (as they might and ought to have done, by raking the taxi s of each ' year in such a manner as to 'sleet the public expenditure), and leasing 429,578,8191. of moor: - as the capral sant raised to meet the said deficiency of inctsine of 138,000,0001., and increase of charge, which an increase of Sinking Fund occasioned ; wherehy, had sufficient only been raised to mike good the deficiency of income, 393,01'0,0001. mould have anfficed the annual charge; or, which would have been 2,433,3101. less, and which excess of charge had kern occasioned by keeping up a Sinking Fund, at a loss of 81,110,3331. of stock in the Three per Cents. The Honourable Member pro ceeded to argue, that the system of the late Chancellor of the Exchequer, namely, that of sending money into the market (by placing it at the disposal of the Commis sioners of the National Debt) had the effect of raising the market against himself. The loss occasioned by the Sinking Fur.d for 24 years by sufferance of purchase and sale of stock, was upwards of 20,0,0,0001. and by the compound interest, bonuses, &c. it amounted to 81,000,0001. Adverting again to the operations of the Sinking Fund, the Honourable Alcanher said that it ap peared from a Statetnent of the Actual Revenue derived from Taxes in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, from the period of the. Union of the two Exche quers, on the sth of January, 1017, to the sth of Jan. 1822; and the Expenditure during the sain period, in. eluding every charge, except Sinking Fund: — Income. Expenditure. ,057,650.589 £5B 544,049 59,667,941 57,872,428 58,680,252 57,392. 544 19,769,650 57,476,755 60,686,076 57,639,5193 1817 . 18123 . 1619 . Ir2o . 1321 . Totals . £296,454,53t1 £288,925,663 Excels of Income . . . 7,525,51i9 • X 2911,454,538 Yet, notwithstanding this excess of income, no less than 90,761,9201. of money has been rake.' in the five years to maintain a Sinking fond, 82,053,7581. of which is stated to hare been applied to the reduction of the Na tional Debt; but although the debt since the sth of Jan. 1817, has been reduced 211,22'21. per annum, by expiry of terminable annuities. The Honourable Member went on to say, that the financial policy of the late Chancel -1 for of the Exchequer bad always the effect of raising the market against bun; with a nominal surplus of seven million, he went into the market and borrowed upwards of 90,700,0001., eighty-two million of which went to the Sinking Fund, that was to say to purchase sto.-k, in order to delude the public and keep up public credit. The system which had been pursued had giren a peat facility to foreign loans. For himself, he deplored that the capital of the country should be drained oat in the shape of foreign loans; indeed, he understood it to hare been a well received joke at Congress that England should contribute to the wants of the Continent by sub sidies in time of war, and by loans ire time of peace (hear, hear!). To return to what he had heroic stated, it wa► nonsense to maintain that we bad an available Sinking Fund of five million, while Ministers were obliged to go into the in irket to borrow two million. This was a sys tem of delusion which it was unnecessary to practise. It could only be of use where there was a striking of public credit. Now lie considered public credit to be similar to the credit of un individual in private life. While such a person paid the demands upon him regularly, lie was said to i.e in good credit. So lie conceived it to be with a Government ; the claims upon them in the shape of in terest were claims in perpetuity, and so long as they were able to meet those claims, they (the Government) ' must be considered to be in goad credit. It was the height of absurdity to borrow ninety millions in the course of five years for the sole purpose of placing S2,000,00: 1 1. of it in the bands of the Cominissioners for the reduction of the National Debt.— In 1819, the house, at the instance of the late Chancellor of tie Exchequer. voted thiee milliuns of additional taxes ; he would ask the Col ttttt ittee to look back and say, was there any foundation for that abominable vote: It was a vote to encourage profusion and extravagance, and not to pay off dela. (hear, hear!) It was said that a surplus was necessary to maintain public credit, bet was not public credit maintained? Did it sot stand high for many years, when they had no surplus whatever: tientlentsn e-ho attribute all the evils of the country to the change in the currency, complain of the advantage possessed hp the public creditor. The Chancellor of the Exchequer gives him that advantage, but lie gives him inure; he creates a surplus for his ben, lit. It would be said, will von leave na surplus ? He would say, rep, 1:1 five mil bola, and you will have a nun L on and a half remaining. There was no necessity fa•r kr. ping up a Siuking Fund at a time when the pressing distress and suffering ut oae particular interest, the most important in the country, moods° mach in need of relief. Fur what was the Sini:- jug to be kept up ? why, that the Minister may on occasion have something to grmiple al. lithe vote rf three say, that miliieo the s had not been agreed to in 1819, would any man present amonnt of expenditure would , have been kept up ? He called upon the Haus • not to agree to the proposition of the Right Hun. I:en lemon, it was not necessary to keep up a surplus of 5 millions fur the piirpose of preserving public filth —public credit will be preserved as long as the public creditor is regu larly paid. From 1792 to 1817 there was n t surplus, and yet public credit was high. The Howe, instead of ennfiding in any Ministers—insteed of leaving - at their disposal a large surplus, should hold • strict hand over the public purse, and regulate the income with the ex penditure of the country. It h sal been said, if you have oot a surplus—if there should happen to he a deficiency --ewhat in that case will become of the public creditor'? Why, what ht • ames of him every quarter, when a defici ency oc.cura—when sometimes it happens that HO less a sum than H millions was to be provided for by Exche quer Bills ? The Honourable Member fur Tatintou had, said will you stand still ? it were better to stand still than to go bark. In every proposition of that descrie-' tion which was sulimitte 1 to the house, they were sure to go bark (hear, hear, heir!) Tee lionnorable Member desired them to persetere, but in the present state of that House was it to he supposed that Ministers would bi• opposed with any success where the Minister comes down to lay his hands upon a surplus revenue, in order to prevent the imposition of ne .v taxes? Ile did not hold that the Sink ug Fund would be of no real eV feet, and that on the other hand relief from taxation un der th•present circumstances of the country ayes most •leeirablee . He Was sure that for the stability of public credit there was no just apprehension to he entertained.' He had the highest opinion of the resources of this coupe try—he was convinced that under fp od management they would increase. If burthens were more equally spread, they would be more light to the great body of the people. The Sinking Fund hail ever been little better than a system for borrowing with one hand a n d paying with another. If the house should differ with him es to the propriety of taking it all away, they would, be had every assurance, agree ni la him that the new Sinking Fund of three mil inns should not be left in the hand, of the creditor, but biloOlll be applied to relieve the people from the pressure of taxes. Mr. BAILING said he could not lint feel surprise that a Gentleman of so much candour as the Honourable sfember for Aberdeen, should have brought himself to say, that by peying ()tithe debt the country would only go back. If his Hon. Friend argued, that the system of paying and harrowing in time of war was bad, he (Mr. B.) wont! not object to the preposition, but the case was materially different in time of peace, when real payment was made. It was only in time of peace that we could effectually redeem the charges of the war. Yet even in time of wa: something might be effected, for a fictitious Sinking Fund might tend to support public credit whim large loans were wanted. Sappose a loan of thirty millions were required, wool l it not he worthy of consideration, whether it should not be advanced to 35 millions, leaving 5 millions fur a Sinking Fund, instead of having only 30 millions without it. This system ;al ways served to keep alive the market, and prevented too great a prernre upon it. lie was nit, however, dispos ed to urge this point ton strongly, yet the case made out by.hit Hon. Friend was by nu means so dear as lie ripposed. Fur Isis own part, he hoped that the present Chancellor of the Exchequer would never have recourse to the system of borrowing with ore head, and paying with the other ; for whether annuities 'or bills were brought into the market, the effect would still be the se ne. There would obviously he a great advantage in turning over the whole of our disposehle resource: to the Sine hie Fund. The only object which the late Ch incellor , of the Exchequer seemed to herein view i n a dherin g to the horerwwitose sod pitying system, was to make it appear • that the` inking Fend was 1 .rger than is at as in reality.— These was in this principle a great deal of that vulgar va nity, which made people wish to be thought richer than they were. He certainly was of opinian that it would be better to get rid altogether of the system which the la Chancellor of the Exchequer had pursued in this respect. But now proceeding to the niore important consideration as to whether we should have a Sinking Fund at all, be ' should say that this was a subject of very great noment. l l Some gentlemen looked upon this measure as affording relief only to one class; just as if that class had not as much interest as any other, in seeing that the affa;rs of the country were well managed. But, be would say, that if any class bed a paramount interest in the proper al ministration of the affairs of the country, it was that class which invariably stood by the country in all her difficulties.—(Hear, hear.) But those gentlemen who entertain the notion that one class only would be hem , fitted by the measure, sought principles they would have public affairs condncted by. It appeared that a Right Honourable Friend of his (Mr. Tierney) thought that some surplus Revenue was necessary by way of a Sink ing Fund. Now, he (Mr. B.) hail proposed that it should be brought down to 3,000,11001., and he could not see what great advantage the public would di rive from making it less by one million or a million aid a half.— But suppose the income of the country should fall off by .1000,0001. or 4,000,000/. which wes very likely to happen, would any man assert that some provision was not necessary to meet that contingency? Any per• son who looked at the iucreass of the Revenue, must see that it was to be attributed to the al eration that had taken ii!aee in the currency. Mechanics. lab 'firers, and artisans were paid nearly as high at during the war, for the produce of labour had not fallen in proportion to the _price of provisions.— (Hear, hear.) Ibis Honourable Friend the Alember. for l'ortarlington (Mr. Ricardo), had talked a great deal about "Alushaa's Tables," and the relative value of gold and silver, as showing the reduction in the pri-e of labour.—lint if they looked to the actual state of the fact, they would find that very little reduction hail taicen 'ace im common mechanical labour; and none at all in labour that required a higher description of skill. Bread, however, and most of the articles of food being now reduced to half the former price, the p-ople wore enabled to spend so much snore in tea, gin, and other Excisable commodities. Bence the increase of the Reve nue, while provisions had fallen so considerably ia price. In the items of Assessed 'faxes, however, which inure immediately bore upon country tien•lemen, there was a great deficit. Suppose that in the course of the ensuing year, whether from an increase in the price of bread er any other cause, there should he a falling off in the Re venue to the amount of 2,009,0001. or 3,0:10,0001. he woe sere it would be the opinion of every reflecting 'hind present that any radii f would be fatal which might go to sacrifice the credit of the country. Looking at the asp et of the present times, he thought it highly priabeb!.• that we might require a naval demenstra ion in the Me liter renean ; anti how were we to prepare for that in any other contingency, if our revenue was to be cramped: We htd only two resources for r 'Wogminty—to tax and to Worrow. But, its his opinion, noiliime was so fatal, or so much to be avoided as all unsteadiness iO tax aim'. We might, peihaps, want 6;1)0,0001. orh,000,0(.0 . tor wome 'sudden emergency, for which taxes were to be imposed ; but the emergency night soon cease to exist ; whereas the misebii( resulting from the imposition of fresh taxes would still be felt. Theis the other way for raising sup. plies was by the proper use of the funding system. Upon this principle the nation might burrow on all reasonable oecastons, provided it Was always ready to repay the loan. But how could they expect to borrow when they used all the arguments possible to support a proposition which teuded to destroy public credit? Some lion. Gentleman called this an equitable adjustment, but it • might more properly be called a convenient alljuituicat. - • • _ _(Hear, hear !) He re told not, hOwever, say, that Ets Hon. Friend (Mr. Marne) Meant to dethroY Piblic credlitt• but how was it to be maintained if there was so smiler revenue left? Could they suppose that people would be so mad as to lend money where there was all borreiVeg , on one side and no payment on the other? Some poor ignorant old women might he credulous enough to think that the people of England guaranteed the loan; hut he would a iy, that it would be . quite impossible to find idiots enough to part a ith Clew money on such a system. Setting aside altogether the abominable moral principle of deceit which the coestiim involved, he would say ti a: no man of common sense would think of lending money on such terms ; and it was impossible to poiut out any mode upon which the tibances of the country could he conducted, unless the expenses of the war were paid off in time of peace. As to the proposition for a Property Tax, he thought it very exceptionable, and by no iee has to be relied upon. The principle of selling annuities to purchase stock ought certainly to be abut. cloned. He wiped the plan would be reconsidered, and seas h ertain that the Right Hun. Gentleman the Chancel lor of the Exchequer would see the advantage of puts*. ing an opposite course.—(Hear; hear!) Mr. T. WILSON supported . the resolution. It wale only in time of peace that we could make the necessary rivision fur the expenses entailed by the war. Other countr;es sanctioned this principle, and it would be ex tremely dangertets for us to depart from it. He denied that we paid 1661. sterling fur every 1001. we had. borrowed, as had been stated by some Gentlemen. Ihe Hoimurable Member concluded some other o' a rteions by saying that the agricul.urists bed got high prices during the war in con- . sequence of public credit being upheld by theans of the Sinking Fund. Mr. D. GILBERT was glad to find that we bad now a clear Sicking Fund, and hoped that the present Chan cellor of the Excheqner, who had commenced his career so auspiciously, would long continue in office, and that if he hid recourse to new loans, lie would raise a fund to provide for thew It appeared to him quite absurd to think that a remission of taxes to the amount of two or three millions, would be productive of any great gene- ral advantage. Mr. 11. G. BENNET was strenuously opposed to the existence of a Sinking Fund. If the boa. Metnber . (Mr. D. Gilbert) thought a reduction of 2 mti'sintls an idle delusion, he could not consider a reducitoo of See millions in that light, fur it would afford subst n tial relief. It was clear that if the Committee assented to the vote proposed there would be an end to all tttrthrr reduction of taxation. The hon. Member for T4lllllOll mereioned that in addition to the security which a sinks' ing fund It ould afford the public crediter,it would also be a convenient resource in case tl.e country was to be i nvo I v • ed in a war. Hut it was more expedient to get rid of taxes, while the country was in a situation to do so. Mr. J. S3lllll said, he would , support any proposi tion spiels had for its object the relief of the agricultural classes, but it was of the first importance to keep up .pnblic credit. The plan of a Sinking Fund was adopted in eery state in Europe; and the abolition of that fund ould have the worst effect, and shake the confidence of the fondlsolder. Mr. FIUME totally differs I from the hon. member wba spoke last as to the necessity of a Sinking Fund. I.! e regretted that such a system was ever adopted, and be we s sure every country in-Europe would bate to regret the ado?tion and contirna tee of it. It was too much to ob ject to the reduction of taxation under the fear of tot toing able to raise a loan if circumstances re quirod . Mr. BARING said a few words in explanation. The lAIRD MAYOR supported the Resolutions. • Mr. RICARDO said that he denied that any considers ble portion nt the dlstreas arose from the alteration of the standard of the currency. The Resolutions being then put, Mr. II UM R asked why the sth of April was substituted to. the sth of January. which was the uaual tissue for closing the annual public accounts? and whether the Clsancelt sr of the Exchequer. really meant to keep up that humbng —(hear, hear!)—of 2,200,0001. which was said to be gained by the farming of the military pensions? After getting an answer to these questions, he meant 'to propose, as an aunm Intent to the Resolutions, " That it was the opinion of the Committee that, in the present distressed state of the country, it was inexpedient to ktep any Sinking Fund. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUERsaid that, in reply to the lion. Gentlemaa's question as far as related to the accounts, the making the sth of April in stead of the sth of January could cause no confusion. The a mut accounts would, as usual, be made IT to the 6.11 January. As to the other question, he (the Chan cellor of the Exchequer) never denied the inutility of the measure of last Session respecting the military and naval Pensions, if the Government itself was under the necessity of making the advances. But if the annuiiea could he sold as it w e col trenplated, when the measure was b ;fore the house, it was cletr that they would give a relief of upwards of two millions a year, for several years to s uite. Mr. RICARDO said, in his opinion, there was nn difference to the public. Did n o t the Ri g ht Hon. Gentle 'man see, that if t e suexeeded in selling the Annuities, he wool.' increase the debt by o much as he at plesent in app' armice reduced i After a few words from Mr. GRENFELL and the CIIIX CELLOR of the Excesaume, Mr. HUME snored his amendment. Mr. TI ERN EY sad tl a. h;s own interest would in cline hint to preserve a Sinking Fond: but a redaction of taxattuu to that amount would be more beneficial to other., whose circumstances respired such a diminution of their burdens After the passing of the present Bill, no more taxes c 041,1 be reduced. Mr. D. GILBERT explained. Mr. HUSK I SSON sad that the improvement in the Revenue e soul 1 enable them here:tier to make further reduction in taxis. Mr. lIGNIE than moved his amendment with an altera tion with an alteration suggested by Mr. Tierney to iris effect, That it was ti,c opinion of the Committee, ti at in the present distressed side of the country, it was inexpedient to maintain a S nlinsr Fold of three millions, and that the up !Mention of two millions of it to the reduction of taxation would be a relief t. , the present distresses. The (louse then divided on Mr. Home's amendment. The numbers were— For the Amendment, 39—Against it, 110—Majority. 71. The Resolutions then proposed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer were then put and carried without a di vision. Alter the Resolutions had been cartied. the house remmed. AI..._PETER MOORE moved for leave to bring in a Rill to amend the several Acts apinst the Combivati.ms oTiourneyinei Nlanufactorers. Mr. MAXWELL seconded the mo ion, and expressed Ws satis f action at the prospect of a measare which would go to relieve the lahooring perr of the conntry. Mr. H USK I SSON said he hoped if the lion. Gent. was allowed to bring in the pro?osed Bill, he would let it stand over for some time for considetalon. Mr. Secretary PEEL wished the lion. tint. would ex plain the measure. Mr. MOORE replied, that Iris object was to prJpo:e such a in. saute as I Id I S-1011_ _lave the effect of bringing back a great numher of emigrant artisans from the Continent, together a ith the machinery theyhad carried ao av with them; and also to settle disputes between the e npioyers and the employed. Le.ve was then given to bring in the Bill. Mr. W. COURTESAY moved for leave to bring in a • I • ; i ; .\