The Statesman. — London, England, 1818-03-14 00:00:00

1 - iNiftIierSMOOMMI ever maillirovlltsladvd whit it. tilniteittee sincere, a veneration for the Constitution of his cat ia tj—; ZOibtiftitios that hall carried the natiloni4 the. ; stint storey pods* efts 'dewy, not te - feel Willed that the laws were salideatly strong' to preserve it sod the People who lived ender it. What secorky had the People of itegised.for the fetertosgslost fro. qeent ievesioes of their personal -freedom 3 'The sintrineteat that was now made sibservient to tine &betas of the Ministers would always present them. selves. Seek a case of as they made est was at all times in their power, because there never was. and probably never wool" be, a period is which, men ef profligate morals and ruined forteaeowieldt not be foetid engaged in some desperate projects, against the public tcanqoillity. When his Majesty's Mioisterstad determined on manifesting their mark of displeasure against the country, why had they not the manliness to goat once to the extent of their severity ? Why divide their system and do half by anticipation and half by retrospection ? When the Suspension Act was opposed on the ground of possible abuse, the argument was, that the aggrieved would have their remedy. When the abuse was al. lead in Petitions on the table, the answer was a Bill of Indemnity.—(Hear, hear!)—lt was thus that Ministers kept their solemn pledges. It was by expedients such as these the People were to be mocked, and defrauded of the protection of the Con stitution: But it was even now recommended,though the loyalty of the country had been and was un. tainted, to persevere in the same vieilsnce, in other words, in the same abases. Why, then, repeal the Suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act ?—There was just as true a ground now for that severity as when it was last Session adopted. Now that a dissolution was approaching, it became the object of Ministers, by mean endeavours and miserable subterfuges, to bold themselves out to the timid and the Desillani• moss as the protectors of the peace and property of the country.—(flear, hear !)—Let Ministers not deceive themselves. Public opinion in this country bad passed its childhood and reached maturity; and to that opinion, soundly and firmly expressed, he would leave it, to appreciate the conduct of his Majesty's Government. The House then divided on the third reading of the -• Bill— I Ayes 4 . . 82 hoes . . . tl Majority . —59 A Message from the Lords informed the House that their Lordships had agreed to several Bills. Sir J. NEWPORT moved his amendment to the end of the first clause. It ran as follows Pro vided always, that nothing in this Bill shall indem nify any person against whom any action or actions have been, or shall be, brought for undue rigour in apprehending, committing, imprisoning, or detain ing the persons aforesaid." The clause was brought up and read a first time. The ATTORNEY.GENERAL said, that this amendment was altogether anneseuary. The Bill did not indemuify persons who had been guilty of ex cessive wiener in apprehending or &tektite; 'mullei n !) Mr. P. MOORE objected to the Bill. It indem nified, be said, all persons, and for every. enormity they commiUed. Mr. W. SMITH stated, that he would apply the case of the Petitioner Orden to the clause now pro posed by his Right Honourable Friend (Sir John Newport). He was aware that-it bad already called forth she derision of • Right Honourable Gentlonsall (Mr. Canning) ; but when he considered the age of that man, seventy-four years, and the infirmities sti.. der which he laboured. he could not help thinking, that to indulge in derision excited by such causes in% not a very enviable display.—(Hear, hear 1)-11 pot the man's guilt or innocence wholly out of the seestion. He did not care whether the infirmity of the man had existed previously to his arrest. or was -the ceosequence of his ill treatment, let them take either alternative, and he would still contend, that it .ogdess was in that -dreadful state of health before hi• arrest, it man extreme of rigour to have subjected bins to the heavy Ironing, which *as sore to aggra. vale his agony ; and the man who inflicted it thus onoecessarily ought to be punished. But if the dis hse was the result of the torture, no punishment could be too severe.—Peor, -hear !]—Now the question he wished to pet to Ms Honorable Friend the Attorney-General was this—Could Nadir, the person who so heavily ironed Ogden, plead the pre sent Art of Indemnity against any itadictment ? Au answer in the negative from such an authority would go a great way --[No, no ! from Ms Opposition], although his- Honourable Friends were mistake., if they Imagined be would accept that admission in pre. foresee to the claese of tiis Right Honourable ;Mead. Lord CASTLEREAGH said, the first point/est consideration was, whether the clause was necessary —if not, it ought to be rejected, for it was very dam. proms to the public to put bees in the way of heat= meets. The eminence of the necessity, or-noo-esist ence, Retold depend on the present state of the law— end HAW, been laid down so clearly by his Hoe. end Learned Friend (the Attorney-General). that it .was impossible to doubt it. It had been asked, wise. ther the defendant in an action, brought by 0 1 0. • might plead the Indemnity Bill in bar ? He might; but it would be a proper subject of consideration to the Jery, how far the Act justified the facts proved its ironing l and so on—and if the facts were, as re pveseoted is this Petition, no Judge would charge in Weer of the defendant. The facts of this case had been taken for granted. The Act was not intended to cogibi the enormities of jailers or others—it had no inch tendency. The operation of it was narrow. ed to four points-Ist, indemnifying for detaining ; 94, wising of arms; 3d, of papers; 4th, dispersing untold& assemblies. The clause was quite ntteats: eary,.and could not be adopted. . Mt: W. SMITH said there was a difficulty, from the natural construction of the words of the Act -66 for any act, matter, or thing done." The words pripmed to be added could do tin harm, 'and might der some good.—[Here Lord Castlereagh expressed disetent.]---The , qualificatioo made by the Noble Lard It. did not understand—he woubl vote for the closer. ;.Mr: B: BATHURST maintained that the .preeent Bill was exactly similar to that of 1801, and epos that occasion the best legal Authorities had deter sniued that it did Dot extend to elooorate Mailers, or . .M~~I~. ether 44* Aletepetees, trees their HOMO . taproom:adios for escenke riper or enmity to p.. ,ea its cestfieimisen am' t dudes the period braced by : . Ala Hill. - i het, t. i t , Mr. LYTTELTON supported, at some kegths ef eldnitee Mild be. .the proposed clause. U. felt It was necessary the , ter. ,Theligist Hoo..Geetleseas had Stiffened tads, Public should,istepopected seism the construction ', opinion 4 Lord Ellerthorough, given in that Heine which might Isetrisigker be pot epee the denies of this! when he was Attcreey•General.. He should like to Bill. The ophilest of the Attorney.deneral, a hear that Right Hon. Gentleman take (tension, in , lawyer, professedly paid by, and in the interest , of - pleading a cause in the Chart of King's hooch, la the Crown, might not meet with the concorreoce of say, " My element, I know, is good, for your Lord Elleuborough ; bet tree the present disposi. Lordship has esprened the :area opinion" •• IS lion of Parliament; which seemed disposed to wake what volume of Eases Reports?" hlottojfanri whatever was the.dictons of the opposite side of the Reports, bet in Colthetes Parliantenteri . Halbsks." House, law, there appeared little region to doubt " Why, what have we to do with that?" would be that any proposition coming from Ministers tumid the 'ldeate remark. lie denied that an unnecessary be received with approbation, and *sectioned by a act might not nevertheless he done for a purpose.— vote of' the House. There was, therefore, the greater Petting chains on an individual might not be mice,. necessity for caution on the part of the friends of the airy for the purpose of detaining him. and yet uiight Constitution in that House, when they reflected upon be don. for the purpose of detaining him. If the the scandalous and iniquitous means resorted to for friends of the Bill were sincere in their declaration. the purposes of propping up their ease—of which that it was intended to protect only that species of means certainly the farce of the last appointment of a illegality whkh they' called meritorious—if they did Committee of Enquiry (the Secret Committee) was, not wish to justify all illegality, howeversoperflunes, beyond all doubt, the Innst scandalous and disgrace. they would feel the propriety of acquiescing in his fel.—(llear!)—He concluded with stating his Wen. lion" and Learned Friend's suggestioo of inserting lion to vote for the clause. • . the sjeste word " necessary." Sir S. ROM! GLY said, the Noble Lord had laid Mr. WYNN, although he thought the clause pro; great stress on the "decision," as he termed it, of posed by the Hon. flirt. objectionable, was nor aware the Attorney-General. But, had there been my de- of any inconvenience.that would result from the in cision in a Court of !lactic, ? Here was a Bill, which trocluction into the Bill of the word "necessary" to said that all actions brought against any persons, for qualify the 66 acts, mailers, and things done, corn. or on account of any act, matter, or thing by them minded," &c. done or commanded, &c. should not be maintainable; Sir JOHN NEWPORT then withdrew his amend. and yet the House were now told that the Bill did wont . not mean " any" act, but any " necessary" act.— Sir W. BURROUGHS wished to proms a clause Why not then say so— pear, hear !) ?—He most to provide that indemnity should not be extended, or most conscsenstiously say, that he tloi not think the construed to emend, to any matter or thing done or Bill, as it stood at present, would admit of the con- tossed to be done-since the 26th January, 1817, if struction which his lino. and Learned Friend too it should appear that it was done or caused to be upon it. As to the observation of the Right 11 0 . 9 . done malidesnly, or without any reasonable or pro. Gent., that the present head of the law bad, in 18(11, liable cease. It was snarly the same as the clause given an opinion that the Bill would riot cover acts proposed by his Hon. Friend, only it went somewhat of unoecessary severity, the answer woe, that he was f ar the r . not she head of the law at that time. He had repeated. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, that the ly known Judges on Bench contradi•t the opinion Ileum had better reject the Bill altogether than ad which whet, Counsel, and possessed of fewer advise. sit this clam*, as k woold lead to the digelosite cf sages of knona ledge, the,, bad advanced. Bat it all those transactions which' it was the object of the seemed, according to the Right Hon. Gentleman, Bill to keep secret. ' ' - . , . that he proper opportunity for discussing these The clause was then pot and rejected. •' . points would have been in the Committee; and so Sir W. BUR:IOMM nest moved an Amend • because lion. Members were not present at any went in the preamble. He went through a'tecapitu. : moment that Ministers required, they were to he l a ti o n o f the v ar i ou s Indemnity Bills (six in nombers! precluded front availing themselves of any subsequent which bad been passed since the Revolution; and ob., opportunity for remark ! Let she House consider served, that in lone of them, ; was there any prowl. the hurry with which this Bill had .bees pressed. sion in behalrOtivittiesies, against the persons who The first reading on Monday, the second reeding on bad Woo .accosed. He.did not think there was any Tuesday. the Committee yesterday ; and now, Fri- necessity for making such provision now, and moved , day, the third reading ! Tar question was not what an amendment accordingly. ought to have been done with the Bill in any former Sir . F. FLOOD said it was esident,-.after what : stage; but what ought to be done with it now. He babe-en done with regard io the other amendments was desirous of bringing the sincerity of Ministers on prOposed,That nothing would satisfy the disc-twenties! this subject to the test. He • ould, therefore, advise his pert Of the other. side of the House.—(hear! and lion. Friend not to press his proposed elapse; sod as the laughter.)—Their only object was to make declems. supporters of the Bill asserted that the acts for which tory speesbes against the OM, to please .the vulgar it weal to give indemnity were only necessary acts, out of doors; they were addressed ad caplanduto he would recommend tie insertion of the word unigos—(Loud laughter)—to cache the politic 66 necessary." mind against the Government. lie then complained The SOLICITOR.GENERAL maintained that of an Opposition Paper, as it was called, misrepre as the Bill now stood, no unnecessary act of cruelty, seating a former speech of his, in which he was made rigour, or severity, committed against a prisoner, to say, that the Duke of Wellington was a very pro. could be justified under this Bill. For if unnecessary, per person to sit on the Secret Committee— it, would not he for she p u rpose of apprehending sod ( Laughter)—wbesees he had said this of the Noble detaining such prisoner. The word necessary was Secretary of State, and boasted of his two country. therefore not requisite to be inserted, being in all men, one of whom had gloriously effected a peace, such cases implied. Actions, therefore, would lie and the other as gloriously preserved it. Ireland at law against persous thus unnecessarily using dower had been referred to by the Hon. Bid. who had or serenity in their official capaoitv, and he there- stated s number of atrocious acts, as be called them, fore could not admit there 'stated any necessity for which took place twenty years ago. and held them up the Amendment. . to the esampte of dill country— (clear! and laugh Mr BROUGHAM thought, that when the Home ter)—but Ireland had latterly given a lesson of trail saw 'Sete was a. complete a difference of opinion guiltily to England, _whit!' it would have been well between tne btu lien. -and Learned Geodes.. on had she followed. the construction of the clause in question, ae ay. sad The gooks wee then pot, and negatived. no—when they beard his lien. and Loomed Friend Sir J. NEWPORT moved to insert words in the say, that he Conscientiously entertained no doubt that peraithie to mithothe the payment of any damages ill* legal cows action of the clause was in ease way, out of the public Pm's', which may be given in any and the Solieitor•General, backed by the Attorneys action brought against official persons for their eon. General, that he conscientiously entertained no duct ender the Sitspension Art. He proceeded to de. debt that it was in another, they would scarcely fend himself from the observations of the Hon. leave the words of it in so vague and undefined a &reset, who had just sat down; and contended for form. What was the Solicitor-General's argument ? theism/15mi of hie-amendment, on the precedent found That there could be tor difference of opinion on the in Cases arising . stela the Droits of the Admiral's?, clause. But there actually was a difference of opi. whereindunages and costs, against the Goiernment, sion on it. And why not thee assert the expiation wets defrayed out of the Public Revenge.. • tory trout recommended by his lion. and Learned The' ATTORNEY-GENERAL observed, that Friend ? The epprehension of teatology and ler. the Bill was precisely intended to prevent such trials plusage! How long bad Acts of Parliament bete so and discessione, as most take place. before a Jury Coeds' in their construction ? When hail brevity could give g verdict of damages.—lffeirr, hear !)- -ante the style of the Statutes? Welt it on the intro. It war utterly iiiplossiblS to' admit -the amendment, election of the present Dill, that the love of without staking-the preamble and the Bill stole precision had seised the framers of it ? Let she i !Mien of jarring and nonentities! enactments. Uesse °bows what expedients bad been needed Sir-J. -NEWPORT replied; that he was wwerii;' pith to avoid tautology and surplusage in it. The pre+ and had stated, that some of the eifeetthent's orite. ble stated that " divers persons had teaselieeosis Bill mast-se - altered. if the amondetent was received. assembled, &c."—" to disturb the public pease," an The SOLICITOR-GENERAL etpfained. ordinary man would have thought sufficient; but no Mr. W. SMITH said;the -Mite of the Ministers .sma 1F 66 to disturb the public peace and trassqeillity."— l was to protect those who • had prosecuted supposed Again, " to mien terror in the minds of his Ms- offenders;- and if appeared to him, that :no Iwo' jesty's loyal subjects," might have been supposed could ease', if a door were left open, thrtiogh Which sufficiently intelligible; bet the framers of the Bill, the persons *h. bad been harshly 'tested inight'itt is their love of precision, expressed it—" to lain redress. cause terror and intimidation." When an author The amendment was she. pet, and negatived with.' once got into a certain style, he generally continued out a division. :- ' it. The Hos.% and Learned Gentleman's style, Sir. W. BURROUGHS Olen Moved is' auteadi, es rather his penmanship (as Lord -Kenyon once meat, to Whoa/rem the advantsgtisof di Bill alt p smiled the conipeaitioa elan auctioneer, which be did persons except the Ministers of Slate; Miry eribtlf met think deserved the appellation of " style") mini- (Mon, Megistrates. Meyers, and Constables. • ... tested itself throughout the whole Bill. It was thr- The ATTORNEY-GENERAL objected to this dared in it to be- necessary that the inforstiatioo auttodment, es it seemed to be levelled as, persAts which had bens obtained of traitoroes designs" shooed who had searched foc arms Melia secret sad undisclosed."end*seditioos papers. The It then spokes( House wooed we 'thi( it 'thigh' bepresetned they had " melees, wits, indictments, and prosecedens," for acted under the warrant of a competent authority. A° any alit, matter, or thing, done, commanded, or. The amendment was therrfnie unnecessary. . directed, or advised, &c." Bat Mere it It was-then pet, loornegett•verl. the Honourable and Learned Gentleman's Mr. 13ROUGHAII then yowled the introduction lan of conciseness stopped, for after that no weed of the Surds " which 'sissy have been ,necessary," ac mot strictly or abadutely necessary most be allotted. cinding to the ateggetilltro of Sir Santini Romilly. To men of cosmos understanding it. would opfwee, The Arrga N EY-G ENTERAL objected to those that as se essay words had been introduced ieto Abe weeds bobs ., ;introduced. because they were perfectly Bill w hich were certainly not necessary , es weed, ancessary, end it wools! be throwing ' a doubt on the t h e etapeassty o f welch .was eves douln • IA alpfit vety pritscipiit - of law in bitter Act. of Parliansret. without great difficulty, be admitted. Oeirsiegle Mr.TLERN EY, ;considering this BM a violation word !It maid sot. cost mooch to eisgrossit.-.-i1 of all-lase, maintained that it was desirable Osle al., 0 ,...1 It would be but a slight deviation from the dap . teratiou should be made its It. .. - P!!!'TT ~' .'.:i "-. ~~ . ~ .. .c~... ,••••••••••• ,•MIN .. - "''"7""7 -1 .•••!Ori. , 1 • ~._ - -- . 44r,.. mss ~•e. r►"''_.•"''' a Joey , al ways • istPi'df juipiee 0.4 hismatitti hitt bias &Ailed * iketniter .41 iart.this referred tn. , Arai i fit* *oral from Me. V. itYNIT . 111111 tour of the motion, the Heine dividetts.t.. • digairm the Martidient • r•r It - - • btalority stobei She Aiieedmeit lie •.. On our re-idraisslott to the. Gallery- we todrid the Sped* tio thl act of putting the question= Y` this Hill do sow past" ' . Mr. BROUGHAM said he did not with to pro. woke any iiiiicussinn in the pivient stage of the mea. oar*, bet he was /mewss to pretest off his own part, and on the part of his Hot': Friends; against its tieing ion - seined that they hid less objection to the passing of the Bill, either tsi consequence of the irgimenis which were urged in support of it. or from the cii cumiststecot of tbeii attenquing - to qualify it by amend ments: fle'and they wire as desirous et that wtna;ent as hetone In attrar-tbeir hostility to the etsoie detemit able principle •uptliF width the BM watgotsbckd.- (Hear, kw Mr. Ti ERN Eir B.id, it Wait his imentitrn, on the former night to have delisered, his opinions on the subject ; but he hod abindoned that int•lntion from a • conviction that it Was quite ennectustry after fhb speeches of his lion. Friend who had just (pitted bid plate (Sir and his Eton. Friend who had !just sat down. Ile should avail himself, however, ilt the present opporliitilly to declare, that he bellevid thit:liste ooe of the Most detestable mewing . .. that ever was introdOced kit° Parliament. . Mr. W. IVVI4III spoke in favour of the Bill, Sad Mr. P. bIOORE against ir, after which the question was carried without a dititidn. Mr. LOCKIMIII brought 10 (hi County Coro ners' Election Bill; it 'was road a Grit time, sod orderpd to be read a second trine on Monday. Adjourned at Eleven o'clock to Monday. lIIS -. . • -'. ~- • . . r .ilshilfty is lair sleal etyto .01 *prigs ;Aeli 0 0 f ' _Potosi; A.! X 4.-: '.O i . 4,01' 1116011 k _ fliPlahlet •tili %tor*: or enmity to per.: leech lashited 'am kr the wiiiiriabk ii, d (pr mehitabileg that jean! Isdirdberetleb le the Ma. died 'embraced by : Geetlrseen; aid It same idiriilely be eery Mids. lageseereisf their tißtimerf 9 botiorkt ties'itilitlteleit . . i fseteri to the calitry, Intl so midi illtfaieace of sectrity,;4lleik, *ear !)—He 5t1604 00 at some With, of opiates bed bee eeprvead - be se important a mit. peweiteeeld stet teem& ediesided, bit a Joey *sett' nnwmmffinri • . COURT OF COMMON COUNCIL. WIMPW7 I 7I Yesterday a Cued of Common Council was biiki foe the purposeof recejsing the Report of the Select Committee, on.the order of the House of Cotemons, reTeking the City's income and espenditure, and fur the thairatch of ether business. A motion was made and agreed to, that Menifooti thorpe, jun. should wear the usual drealial t die Town Cie, k. . ..t 1 , 44. Mr. Discos had in his hand the Report WWII Committee nn, the order of the House of Comment, no the City espencliture. The order was, that there stould be laid before the House a statement of the Revenue of the City of London fen' five'yeari, ape. cifying what refitted to 'quit-rents, colts, beqoestc, • &C. royal entertainments, and prison espencen..-i- The order had been referred:to a select Committee, which had met us anon as po.sible ; and he should then move that the Report be (P3(l. The Report was then read. It stated, that think ing the subject of great iMpotlance, the Committee had required and obtained the attendance of atl tile Officer+ of the Corporation, incept the Common Serjeant, who bad been absent on the nose Circuit. That, having considered the subject, they were ref .opinion that an account such as ordered should be prepared, in order to be presented to the House.— lie thought it was the wisest way to comply with thin Report : for, if they did tint, it would be Imagined that there were reasons for the contraltos*, of their ormoonts. The Worthy Gentleman moved that the Court agreed with the Report, and that it pluerld I. referred hack to the Committee to prepare the ac counts accordingly. . . . Mr. PEARSON said, he should propose an amend. went to the motion, which was—that the Court were of opinion, that a statement of the Ahem! Actbdtits of the Corporation for five years should be 'weltered ; but that the Court felt it its duty to motet axe. spectral remonstrance to the Common. Homer Par. liament against Foch parts of its order es related to the Accounts of the Receipts and Payment of the Annual produce, and the title to the principal 'of the other property vested in the Corporation, width was what they could not submit to without as ie. feedlots of their chartered rights. . ~ • Mr. WILLIAMS seconded the amendment. Ha thought more legal opinions ought to have been I taken ; for in a multitude of counsellors there was `wisdom. • hire J. DAVIES wished the Pestle re be informal of the real circumstances of the case. lie considere.l the conduct of a Member of the Honourable flour., with Matti to the City Espences s as most improper land illiberol. Was there any real - ireprnpriety die. covered? Was there any fault to fiud *itt) the Ciy iEkpences? NO man 'dared t o s..y so. Arcot/mil were required by the older that Kara totally t r r e . levant to the rititmei pewee fur .ts filch accounts were ' i at all reqUired. . Sir T. BELL was in rayon,. of gibing an account uf Vitas cilleetaditure . 11 hi,ch originated us Parliamentary Gram's. . Mr.lviiivner,Cw said, that come endeavours were rer , dnatedly ,'bile to,prodeer a salmis between if e City end Southwark': but he hoped such . a thitfo, ,Assold net sort eed:. It was highly to .he reprobated VI see kheir icnororidence, if, they had been improvi. ( A l i • ..• at all, .1010 had bears rterei , ed in support of Velverninent principti , g, found fang with by the soli. .pOreri of, Government themselves. ' He thought it -Would be as greet an abuse'tss ask them for heir titles to any thing, es to *sic, the Dike of Bedford to produce the title -deeds of his we.. ... Mr. Disox sod Mr. PEAVON replied,-the lover at' clesiderahld length : and; after ltticerittlictic fr , to Mr. Alderman Worm, Mr, A likerwigt krlttld, 'soil serval other Mesubers, the Ooett divided;- whets there eere. . • .. . . is For the ApirOns•vt„ 45--A:limt it, .! . q 6 --11 7 1nritYt 9. • After the ditisruit,strether amendMent,lfer the So. led Committee to coweider further li-reorient -of oh, House, and to take such *deice thereon as they should,see fit,, and to make a further report, was moved and finally agreed to. 1 The Coed shortly after broke' up. MI 111 'RR . _ • • • _ • - PluMgrWiWagi. 7r" - '' ,: