The National Register. — London, England, 1819-12-12 00:00:00

;• DOUSE OF LORDS. MONDAY, DEC. 6. After the lintel Chancellor had • taken his Peat, ',Fitzgerald and two latches, the children of Lord Edward bite • • 'eel l a ttended to take the oaths of allegiance and fidelity, in . a C ODOCtillerCe of the Act of last Session removing the attainder iron) that noble family. lix-urricto INronmA T 10745. &e.—Viscount SIDNIOUTH laid on the table the pipers unwed for by the Marquis of Lans downe, respecting Ea-officio Jaformations vie. an account of all Informations between lelB and 1819, stating proofs, arid what proceedings were had on the same. Aiso an ACOOUh of the nuinhet of lielielniente within the same period On di motion of the Noble Viscount .the pipers were ordered to be printed. LIBEL BILL. Viscount SIT/MOUTH rose to move the second reading of a Bill to prevent tire extension of blasphemous and sedition libels. The object at' the Bill was to effecteally suppress such libele by giving the Court power to encrease the punishment in cases where persons are convicted of the offence a second time. It did not go tap encreaae the punishment in the first instance. having on a Cornier occasion stated the ground on which the Bill was introduced the Noble Viscount omitted a rceapitulatton. He concluded by moving the seetioil reading of the Bill. • Lord ERSKINE said be should trouble that House with but few observations. It appeared to him, that the circumstances did not justify the proceedings, yet they were tat] it was expedient. The Bill gave 130 explanation in die preamble to justify a measure Of Go much importance to the liberty of die subject. The Noble Viscount was as bold in his speech as the bill itself. No case he could be strong enough to warrant the chains they were about to hints on every liberal writer. The Noble Visccenit said the bill applied only to seditious and blasphemous libels. There were wiany shades of what was termed blasphemy, but 110 one could depre:.ate more than himself the attempt made under any doc trine. to rob the poor and contented Christian of his last solace, the dependence he had 'won lie beheld such attempts with horror, and if he could suppose the bill would do any good with a view to the prevention of the offence, he should not only go with the Noble Lords, but run before diem to pas, it. It was useless, because he was enabled to say upon experience. that the existing law was etrong . enough to extinguish the evil. Sonic years ago another spnees of libel was common. ile alluded to horrid obscene publications, which found the way into boarding schools, corrupting and poisoning the minds of youth. On that Occasion, he represented a society of gentlemen, who laudably 11.2111 C to the resolivion to stop the destructive flood of contamina tion. He stood forward as Counsel for the Society, in the King's Bench, and he could say, some of the baneful publications were us natiecon? as the filthy productions of French obscenity. pull lished and solid in the Palms Royale. Those libels were put down ' by the law. (Hear, hear!) The much rei end Doctor Porteus, Bishop of London, and other persons equally eminent, aexisted in putting tnein down, and surcevtleml in their endeavour. Why could not the Attorney Gener.ii, with the public purse ai his corn niami, put down the libels, now the subject of complaint ? The fact was, there had been no seasonable effort to check the publi. cations which the Government then so much deprecated. •• The Age of Reason," when first published. was not powecuted, but Sir S. Shepherd. the Attorney General, preferred proeette tins Mr. Hune'a parody, which few persons would consider the worst of the two libels. The Law did not define what seditious libels were to be punished with transportation.—A thotnend se ditimu libels might he written by men of wisdom, without knowing it; and the Lords did not want proof at the present day, that a prosecution for some libels only increased the sek and extension oftliem. The Lords opposite could never mime oe that the people of this country would cease to animadvert on the laws, and they ought to take care that they did not give (neon. ra,gement to libellers by the very means they proposed to adopt for keeping them in check.—lf they punished a man once for the publication of a libel, and lie afterwards thought fit to try his strength with the law by a second publication, he increased hie punishment. Every copy of a libel published after conviction rendered him liable, as the law stood, to additional punishment. That being the ease, what ground was there for the infliction of new punishment' If the Government had not inbreed the law, the omission did not furnish- any fair pretence for making a new law. Believing. as he did, that the existing law was sufficient to cheek anti punish libels of every description, be could never assent to the principle of the Bill. The Earl of I 1 AllItOW BY said, he had much respect for what fell from ti:e Noble Lord, but on this occasion he could not admit his reasoning. 'Die Marquis of LANSDOWNF. considered the Bill destruc tive of the liberties of the Constitution. It teas a Bill to apply the yuniehment of felony to misclemennovu It was a pith:el:wont that was itnerpial, falling on some more heavily than inhere. In respect to die Bill, tee punielnuent of transieweation for libel would lead to didiculty on the part cf the law officers. They would find it difficult to procure convictior.s. It w mild increase the disinelinatioa of Jurors to give those convictions they com• plained had been withheld. Ile alludee , by way of example to the present situation of an lionotirable Baronet, the Member for Westminster Ile asked die Noble Viscount whether he sup posed in caee the Hon. Baronet was tried for a second libel that a Jury would give a verdict might send him to Botany Bay ? Soca eeses would wino, alid instead lot' convictions the Jurors would give acquittals. Ile opposed the Bill in its then state. Lord ELLEN BOROUGH in a. maiden speech supported the Bill. Lord HOLLAND admitted dia. the Noble Lord who spoke last had stated the intellieibe groural for the eiloption of the Will. 'the Noble Viscount who brought it in said it was to pnerve die Liberty of the Press. His eznerence had enabled him to urider.taad Parliamentary logic. W lweever he Lad been asked to pay money, in compliance wail souse Parlianietitary measure. the suneinent almost invariably was It is to protect your property." In the present instance,. the attempt to destroy the Liberty :of the Press was termed, in peril:tine:eery logic. an effort to preserve that libetty. The Noble lord could not admit the people were so aboutinebly wicked as they were described. The people of England ware a Christian, moral people, and not easy to be corrupted by publications which carried bane and anti dote. Five years ago the table of that House wes.covered with Petitions fist the ere/141110f CillltellCS and Chapels. Os that oc - elision the PeutionersQcre called misled people—misled by re ligion ?—Now they were told th. people were en irreligious, diet it was necessory. Perhaps the intention of the Noble Lords was to follow the system of I Miser Chnewell, by forming a sort of Spi elute] Governtuent. They had heard of the diectetionaty pewee of the Judges, but that w is a June of dependence galling to the mind of an Englishman. I. corn the dine of Lord Somers to Mr. Burke's time. there had :iot, pedlars, been a man in public life who had avoided writing it libel two ac three times. l Dryden, Pope, Swift, Addition, and.9.toel were libellers, and had Steel Kind under the operation of a Bill like that before the House, he wool,l no doubt have been sent to Botany Bay. The Noble Lbril, in a io-ecli of e oleeiderahlelangth, strenucualy a the principle of the Bill. P C I Bill was s ubnquentiy oppomcd by Earls Grey and Bles and supported by the lead of Liverpool, and NCELLO K. said, Obit lie conceived Sim measures upon ohiclitibis noble friend who had just art down bad conntienie with sa notch severity, were essentially necessary as il.e preset ration of the free cost /11 01 111110 1.3111.:(1 J. ;.~:,~- • .. • _ v ' . THE N. The DUKE a few wog ohi nu w verpool) on the sell Laneasterian syst‘... defended it when attacked, and he would take the liberty of saying, that-the practice of teaching under it was founded on the strictest 'Principles of religion and morals. To the Search for arms' bill, and the training bill, he would, with a few exceptions, give his consent; but the present bill should have his strong opposition. To the principle of the whole system he objected, and lie would tell why, moat of the information on which ministers act ed, it would appear by the papers on the table, hail been received before the piorogation of parliament in July.— Should ministers, therefore, have allowed the house to se parate witliotit mentioning the danger, and proposing their remedies? His other objection to the seditious publics. tions bill was, that he conceived the necessity for it ori ginated in the neglect of the ministers ;o prosecute; and lie would not eueourage that neglect by giving them additional powers. He hoped lie 11.411 expressed his sett : timeuts wide the courtesy *Well belonged to the house, but, nt the same time, with that firmness which n convic tion of their truth warranted him in using. (Hear, hear.) The bill was t h en read a second time, without adi vi 'lion. It was o.dereil to lie committed for to-morrow, and the repnrt to be -cerived on Thai - Wry. The Report of " The Search for Anus Bill" went through a similar Debate. A short conversation then (melted, in which Lord Er. skine, the Margnis of Laosilown, Lord Sidononth, and the Earl of Dm nley, took part; when an amendment, pro posed by the Litter noble lord, extending the time for bringing actions against the magistrates for any alleged misrondect hi the execotion of this act, from three months ! , 1 six, was .:egatived without a division. The report was then - received, and the bill ordered to be engrossed. The. report on the training bill was likewise received. Adjourned at 11 o'clock. ToE9ol Y. DEC. T. The Travers Bill passed through a Committee, and was re potted to the Home. Lord HOLLAND presented a Petition from the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Commons of the City of London, against the restrictive measures then before the liouse.—The Petition was read, and onle , eil to lie on the table. The Arms Bill vets read a third time and passed. Lord SIDMOUTH then moved the third reading of the Training to Anus Bill, which was accordingly read and passed. The House went into n Committee on the Rill to prevent the publication of blasphemous Anil seditious libels. Viscount snamouTti, 1t the said Committee, proposed several amendments, one of all eh appeared to us to promte, that every onler for search and seint aof books is to contain the name in' the person whoe: books are to be seized. Defendants, in cases of libel, ere to he furnished with a copy of the indietn:ent at the public expoice. The Bill, aiei the arneetlinents, was agreed to, and ordered to be reported to the House. The House adjuumed to Thur d THURSDAY. DEC. O 9. MANCHESTER MEETING, Ac. The Earl of CARNARVON presented a petition from David Dawson. John Dawson, and Samuel Dawson yeomen in the County Palatine of Lanmster. The petitioners described than selves to be good and In) at men. Their brother. Edmund Dawson, went to the Manchester Meeting the 16th of August, and was wounded on the occasion. lie was taken to the Manchester Infirmary, whew he died. The Jury which set on a view oldie body, according to the statement of die Petitioners, could not :ay how he Caine by his death, notwithstanding the Petitioners Mut evidence to rove he was cut down by the cavalry. The Petitioners prayed for full and ample inquiry into the transaction. Tho petition was ordered to lie on the table. TRAVERSE BILL. The Lord Cif ANCELLO It rose on the Order of the Day for receiving the Report of the Committee upon this Bill, and observed. that he should take the liberty to state his intention to move several amendments. The Noble and learned Lord then intimated that the words " Berwiek-upon-Tweed and Wales" shoulo. be omitted, :IS being uzineccssary. Lord HOLLJAN 9 rose to produce ei amendment of hih own, of considerable importance. The prtictice of stitlering prosecution, instituted by the Attorney-eieneraLjn hang over a man's head, was more in his opinion than the law oagilt to tolerate; and with a view to redress die evd, the Nobie Lord proposed to introduce the follos'ng amendment :—••• Be it fortaer enacted, that med.-, ashy sr-officio inforinanoti, filed against a defendant, Ise net Imane..t es trial within 11l months atter eding the same. in. fortinir proneelions shall twase:" The Lord Cll A NCEI.I.O it ~id in the case of the King v. Nt'l/otigal. 2 East, the I uri•to.n was assisted, whether the Attorney-Gcnoral tantld be compelled to go to trial. The Judge; were of opinion he could •.,st. but y heltl•an a remedy, that the defendant might have a trial az bah The .Noble and Learned Lord did not mean to say that was situation hi which the subject might to be plume'. Ile should submit, however. to the Noble Lord, before the third reading of the Bill, how far the chute proposal was possible Of net. At that. time he was not prepared to agree to roe clauses • The Lord CIIANCELLOR propeed to read the Bin n third time to-morrow. It was not certain that all the machinery of law, applie•.able to the subject, could revolve in his mind by to-nortow. If, however, it was not in his power to render assistance, with a view to the coils; aerator rot Cue !portion, so far as it was connected with this Bill, tie would give it in the discussion of any other Bill any Noble Lord 'night introduce to the house. And he said, it would be lit matter ter a separate Bill, brought in with as little delay as possible. Itepoit was received, and the Bill ordered to be read a third time on Monday. LIBEL BILL. Lord 110LI.AND rose, oti die orthir of die day for receiving the Report of the Committee on the Bill to prevent the publica tion of Blasphemous and Seititious Libels. Wiladv t the dan ger might have been there was no s pretence whatever far saying the existing law should not be ILK ted to the evil. Wien respect to sedititus lihels, the Bill was totally silent on the question— What is a .seelitious libel ? A seditious libel nee never clearly • been defined. A cletir itelinttiod of the olleilee .iiight to he in. traduced into the Bill. A practice might prevail its i bookseller's shop of telling all looks sent by tespectutile emboss, lid a man alight be puontied forselling a libel which he had never known to be a libel. llow was is hook eller to know wive:het it was a libel or not In oilier incomes the master ea..; made responsible for the misconduct of his ,Seirtiritsi ;nem' those who were not guilty tit writing and publishing libels wet, :...,tile to ponislimeni. : The Noble Lane yrtipoAd to introilade the stoles •• kno , ingly and mil iiciutisly, in order to eliara,ierize the offence. The Bill also introduced a species of pr,anhmcnt thikelown to the cauntry, namely the le AV td b mixt:rat-rd. 'l' he Earl ie . II A artr)Will supported Cie k novi.ions of the Bill. Ilitnislortent wet a good method of g:tting nil of those who elitat bed sit, pub.i c peace. Lord ELLESIieStOUGaI expressed nn origin/11. that toe • seditious and blasphemous libeL ought to be clearly defined. Ifs suggested something like the fellow:lig woras, by way of 1 etnition VF.ftMOL h „,. e'..lertioa to the .5..,_ prop:v.:l ity rite Not& Lord, with a view to definition, prov:att the Name of the Prfficie Segett was introdued. Lord MUSK I ' i sfiLpbjected to the punishment of transporta tion. It was ilWieto send to the Colonies libellers, who would not fail to corrupt * minds of t;.z colonists to the injury of the Mother Country. Seven years' iinierisoninent in England would be more sirre, and a better mode of pu nishment. After some further debate the Report was received, and the third reeling appinnted. The Report of the Viury Trai l ifil. was also received.—. Adjourned. FRIPA V, 9 , 0. 1 0 . TR LINING TO AR. lill.L.—The Chancellor of IL the Ceche pier "d Ar i - M kralt m MUI unOters fro the COOWS brought up the I I, :Arry,,Bill, which was received by the Lord Cha llor, and the amendment. aaeed to. LIBEL KILL —The Earl of CAIO Alt VON rose, on the order of the day for the third reading of the Bill to prevent the Publication of blasphemous and seditious Libels, and having called the at Polite House to the efect it would have neon the I f I press, ex pressed a decided opinion that.usylsA.. .iited at all by Par liament, ou'zht to . ' • lotion. The Noble 1 , 4,1 concluded his ~ii by king an amendment, limiting the (hit mho, oft fl O years. Visvono(..h II) NI 01.41fil °repots the umendinein, 9n the ground of the mi.chief i 510 , 211 Iced follon el the publication of the most atrocious liik . l3. It was iu his opinion, the duty of P.irliaatent to clued( to.the utmost extent Abitt turrepl ~r cnatamin:ilivn Which had too hie .; 'nen 'Alp. to ottefrte• on the Ottlnie miiiil:- .1 sul E (iROSN' LNIIR 01;worted the amendment. Thlliiikeke of WEL° NOTON spoke in favour of the wip pi Bill. -- • Grace coasidered it a neve.sury measure. The' blip of LAN I) %FF expressed a lame that the Bi old prove a cheek to the ditsetnination of tujr ehtlitCWl doctrines, which had of late too much disturnd the pM•t e of society. Atter a discur-ion of considerable length the amendment I was negatived without a division, and the !louse adjouined i till to-morrow. ' • 1 4 . ).14 1 ft a' r Plio rd "" "- ••• . !` . • • .. It. c • - 4 - . r . .0 • , . N \ \ • t a b ‘ • • • . •••••s , . . . , . . • -.. . . -i , . • • .. •-... r ATIONAL REGISTER. \ 41 1 /0102 ... C. It ...—"....—. - - of SUSSEX could not help saying ' " Any publication calculus's! to bring into ilsrepute and con- tempt los Alsj's Gun:mitten. et of Pent, what had fallen from the noble earl (Li. . The I or to bring into esty contempt the Clrist the Muses ian Religion as by arliam law object of the education of the pour. i established." stem he had always patronized; he had The Earl of I, I vERphoL h:vl nn oir•erion to the words - . . •*" , . - . . .- - . 1101 SE OF COMMONS. MONDAY, DEC. 6. Mr. P. MOORE presented a Petition from \V. Great. head Lewis, of Coventry, respecting the recent meeting there on the Manchester transactions, of ite intrernption by 6 or 700 constables. The Mayo' declared, that he did not A ittliori ze the interrupt tots Petition read, and ordered to be printed. . . . . Sir J. WI:41011i moved for a 'return of all criminal infoimAtiroo filed by the Attorney General in 1818 and 1119; the lan-es of the defendants mud otntolications;4ad the r, slat. irc sack proceedings. Ordered. 'l'll, , Roger of the Committee of Ways and Means was brought ottiqiiedigreeil to. Mr. HUNIE ask ell whether there was any 'mention to impose any new regulation or ditties on the im.oretation of foteigis silks, it tiring sit 11 know.' that ibey acre Dom Mirsaitteed by a regular system of sutoggling. I'ttty or lute. gr . ; tent. might be int posed, and pi ...due. , a consider atilt. revimoie. 'The CH AICCELTOR of the EXCHEQUER replied, that he +wind ill the sentiments that hail fallen front the Hun, Nlemoes . lint he leered it would he ditfieult to con vince the tstaitultelerer that site!' a proeectling would not • I here with 1,1, iiiirresia • M r. CALVERT moved for remits of the. tnount of the dot,, Arcot sling to an Act of last Sessiod; tot Malt ism hand. Ste.—Osikted. Mr. LA WWI ON gave notice, that alter, Christmas he shoold bi lug forward the toitetlittol of Pm liamentary Re f .itio ; and lie might be iniliiigisti with a ft w words to expiate his object, (Hear. i—Hen measure would propose the repeal of ilie Sept e 111 l ia' Act; Cie extension of the riccu lye franchise ...1 Copy holders and lloesehol•li us pay ing direct talcs; anti the extinction of what were called I.te rotten Boroughs. (Hear, and a langli.)—He was sore this proceeding would more titan any other tend to pacify those iliderettres which now en happily existed; ant V/11110.11 it lie feared they would be doomed to behold what few men dared to contemplate: . 1 UMULTCOUS MEETINGS RILL. Lord CASILEI(F:.kt; 11, pees ;misty to moving that the Rill be committed, detailed some of the alterations which bad berm introduced. 'fitey mainly concerned Debating Sorieties ; and to regulate Wages, file.; to prevent mat- ter.; of Church and State from being covertly agitated. As to the making of the 11111 locedand temporary, he deemed that such limitations would make the Bill one to :neon rage rather than to suppress sedition—for it was the main object to sliest/ the deluded that such proceedings could not be countenanced by Parliament. It was therefere desirable to give the 13111 something of a permanent Cha racter ;he she-old therefore not object to its duration toeing limited to five years. He should resist all proposi tions to give the Bill a local operation. Mr. '111:11NEY remasked, that the Noble Lori left his proposition in a doubtful state. He did not say that he would propose its limi.ation to five years, hut stated, that lie would not oppose such limitation Lot d CASTLEREAGH replied, that it would be fur :hose opposite to submit a proposition respecting the limitation of the period; butt if a less period thin fivs years were proposed, lie shoold amend such proinKition, by moving., that the Bill be limited to an op er a tion 01 five years. Mr. CURWEN opposed the 11111 altogether, as not cal culated to meet the evil complained of. He admitted, it would not be the first of such measures. It would not pet down the evil. The country was over taxed, and till that evil was remedied, industry and commerce wood still 'email) paralyzed. 'Phone were !lie evils--want of reform, and slier-taxation - which afflicted the country ; and if his Asijestrs Nliniaters wished to it store tranquil lity. the mast switeettatid. course to pursue would be, to hold smut sotioelittimation that they would attend to the 1 emedying of those evils. Mr. V. lel fZeiERALD rapt essed his satisfaction at the .ihri atom , . and siumalmetits introthiceel tutu the Rill 1 uy the Nobly Lout. So R. W 1 L-ON outhunted not only the principle of he 1.-1,1 hut the exerexote of the system of n Welt it ttlittilit Iforeritinter; and the 'craw:et tom proposed ought to subject the Noble Lord to attßics of impcsithavnt 'Llicy heat to