The Statesman. — London, England, 1818-04-21 00:00:00

, . - miry s!•filig., year since tile, wor t s eeer i.4 became Tells veleable. The fifth, .11TvrT 01119 6 arrears of Fr eres Operty-Tit, 35b0001. urn,. were gill to be collected, and the mei kited woild it b e trea ted, be realised for she service of the proseot l year. Tee sistit-part of the Ways end Mesas was a • • s em of t 1,44 81 of profit, arising from the assistance ifohled bs 'Pa filament to Public Works last year by the hsue of Exchequer Bills. The total sum raised IT show , Ways' and Means was 7,111,4181. Ile eslailated on no surplus on the Consolidated' rend, although, he felt. assured that there woutd'be a sur. plus i • yet, he reserved that for the payment of arretei that might arise in course of the year. Nest. year he hoped to be able to give them a More satisfacto,y accieset of the prodece of the Consolidated Puod. and of the arraseernent respectbig it. The sum then pro es be had slated, compared with the total sup. . Vies, left 14 000.0001. to be; still provided. It was,' in fact, but 13,000,0001. some odds; for 600,0001.' Svisuld'he reduced of this sum from CirCoostawCllll extraordinary nature to which he should after *bras • refet. To provide, then, for these fourteen Winona,• and for the reduction of the Funded Debt, be had now to submit for the approbation of Pattie.. %out ,the Mau which he had adopted and aroused, Yn this Pld4 the first object he bad its view was Se effect very considerablOreduction of the Unfundeil . Ditht, outstanding. It would be allowed by all who were convene with. Ibis subject, that during the first years of rice it was always a matter of les. port4nce to reduce a great part of the Untended Debt accumulated and left by the war. In 1,81.6. he b u d s t a t e d his intention of providing for the Un funded Debt, accumulated in the coarse of two years, at the end of that period, if the Nate of public credit were favourable. He should eat now feel himself hound to reduce the Unfunded • Debt, merely because he had given that promise—nicer, hear !)--if the public service ',weld not be benefited bt hit acting in confurniity with the prospective re. pr,•4lststion •he had then given. But the Poblit tenont he benefited by it ; for his Mast for the reduce rum of the Unfunder! D.bt more than accomplished that f.tject, left a surplus for the public service. TtieUi.fundoil Deist had greatly increased. Increased as it was, it had been provided for in an ettraordi• nary manner. Yet to continue increasing so largeen eccumnlation of Ustfunded Deht would not be wise. It bail been increased last. year 18,000,0001. In ligja, he had invested our Unfunded . Debt rather than raise a new loan, because there was a consider. able'saving iri doing so. The interest payable for a Loan was caved at the time by Increasing the tlit. funded Debt ; and, although the supplies thee pro. Vidal, for were paid by a Loan at a future paled, yet there was a considerable iaviog in this mode of pro ceeding. The 3 per cents. were net !Oil than 80 per cent. Now, suppose that a Loan should have reduced them to 75, there was a difference of 2,000,0001. There was, in fact, Dot less than 16,000,0001. saved upon the whole of the Unfunded Debt by this °pewit's. This formed a good reason for having increased the' Unfunded Debt, while the large increase of it formed now a good reason for its reduCtion. Another reason for making the bargain at present was, the reduction which had been effected in the capital of .the National Debt since the termination of the war. It might be pro. per to state :o those who were not familiar with those transactions, that from November, 1815, 'the capital of the Debt was reduced by the amazing sum of 50,000,0001. That was, the Na. Ilona( Debt was now 60,000,0001. less than In 1815. So that by fending what he proposed of oar Unfund. ed Debt, the National Debt was net raised higher than at that period. The obvious effect of the propo.ed reduction would be, that by clearing the mnoey market of that high charge of Unfunded Debt, it would increase public credit, and through the opera tion of public credit, the 4 and 5 per cents. would, he trusted, be reduced to 3 per cents. lie could readily show bow this would be brought about. The interest apop money would improve, and lo conse quence of this improvement the plan of reducing the 4 and 5 per cents. would be carried into successful operation. He by no means despaired of carrying this into complete effect in the course of the nest Session. He should now state the means by which the objects he had mentioned were to be accomplish ed. The original principle of his plan was to raise the 3 per cents. into stock bearinginterest at the rate of 3f per cent. Two advantages were gained by ths. transfer. Th. first was, that money would be thus obtained for the public service; and the other ed. rattily was, that this plan was better adapted for the reduction of the 4 and 5 per cents. then any thqe could ho devised ; 31 per cents. would rise to pat much sooner than 3 per cents. ; and it would bi mach more satisfactory to the holders of b pee cents. stock to take 3 and-a-half per cents. time to take 4 per cents. with the apprehension ,of being reduced to 3 per cents. This wee,' therefore, more favourable to the reduction of 4 and 5 per cents. than any other arrangementirr i The 3} pet cents., increased to 27,000,0001., pt,, diced a saving of 4,000,0001. of the capital deli s thit Would be created by a loan on the mum terms pi at former periods. In, consideration of obtaining a transfer of 3 into 31 per cents., a premium of 11 per cent. was to be paid as the price of the difference.—• The actual difference, considered as an annuity sale able on the same terms, was 13 per cent., calculating the 3 per cents. at 78. There was thus a bones of 2 per cent given to the purchaser of the 3 and a hplf per cents. Re had been encouraged to adopt this plan by its success in the Irish funds last year. The 3' per cents. were there transferred into 3 and a half, that 11, 1081. Irish, were transferred for 1001. Eng lish, one-seventh of the national rate of exchange being thus sacrificed. By thii means not less than half a Million was raised in the course of last autumn. This success had confirmed him in his intention of proposing a similar transfer here. On the 14th of April, therefore, it bad been made known at the Bank, that a subscription would be re ceived for part of the Sepply, and an option was given to fend Exchequer Bills. On the first day not legs than 8,000,0001. were subscribed. By the first part of his plan, that Is, by the transfer of 3 into 3 and a half per cents., 27,270,0001. were to be funded ; and, by the other part of of his plan, that is, by the subscription of &chequer Bills, 7,600,0001. were to be funded. The plea had been received so well on Friday lint s that the whole amount was almost cos. THE §TATiScAti. &Witted Othrsley. 'lthe d 2robilirtogslid, orai' _91110.0001.. After, 'timsdirs69o4oo9l. • bpi ,thmseastler a the II hits .14 liereewthilßsetviros stained hetweitss'7 d a d otrojbooi. to bill peOßAkiti the ...Aker swim ANtliteltleatove Iw hie AIM j icrestiog Ibis sew Mock Ives to •sfrall titert2l9 tq subscribers of convertin g it into the Si s • , the present price of which was 03 per coot. 11. did nit think the-aloe of the new stock was likely to fail below that amount. It was set merely. the saes Of. one per titist. which was made applicable, by scheme, to the redemption of the whole sem borrow, ed, *ben model. par; the Commissioners having a discretion th 'exercise with respect to the extent ti which their. purchases, under circumstances othemisi fa etodrable, might be carried. They had a fell power vested in them of acting spon'either food as the in terests of the Toblic should 'require. The total atonest of new, stock created fog the service of the year would be '34,900,0001. Of 'which 27,270,0001. t wotild be vested in the 34 pee casts. and the re.. Osiuder its the 3 per cents. The differeace le the 'rate Of interest would be about 153,0001. In exa iajoiqt..tb• interest as receivable upon Exchequer 'Bills at present, and whet their conversion into stock would prodeco, the whole charge would appear Dot to . exceed 31. Ss. *id per seat. a very small sem *bon viewed is etiference to the magnitude of the traosactioo. ,Ffe had now to express his hope that the Committee would be inclined with Ilia to tap port this.aew plea of issue by a measure perfectly in confoperity with the principles of that general view of ear. Isaac's which had been developed in the year 1613. • The 1nc..... which the adoption of this measure would teed to upon vier Loan of 30,000,0001. wield be about 1,525,0001. He flat tered himself that he was entitled to congratulate the.. Committee upon the condition, tweeted to the plan for raising money which be bad no* endeavour ed to explain, as compared with the terms upon which any farmer Loan had been negociated. It would be remembered by the Committee that accord ing to the plan which he bad submitted in the year 1813, the Sinking Fund was, to a certain extent, made applicable to the immediate service of the year, whenever circumstances should arise to reader such a measure expedient. it was his inter.: ion, if nothing preferable should jots sepo , ,terl, to propose that it should be so charged this year, as t mek? ge•td whatever deficiencies might appear spun the fullest compariseis of the expenditure of the Hotessee.— In the year 1813, he recollected to have held out to the House and the Country the prospect of realising a fund of 100,000,0001. Ile had the happit..-ss of I now stating that this fend amounted to 01,00,1,0001. of which 84,000,0001. were stOssertient to the par. poses of the Act of 1813. The manner, however, in I which hc intended to apply it would not iuterfere with the operations of the Cr.m:nissiutiers in the re daction of capital debt. This part of his plan, how ever, he should reserve for consideration on a future day. He should now rather choose to call the afire- lion of the Committee to flits improvement- in the different breaches of our Revenue. The favoLrahle rise in the amount of Excise Duties ;lad led him ti, estimate them at the sum of 3,500,0001., anti the total excess of produce, as COtTlittlfed With the * ea r 1815, was 515,6001., or more thou ten per Cent. on any former return.. 1.. the feat q mrlet, as com pered with the corresponding quarter of the former year, there was an improvement of I`lll,onel. in th. Racist. War Duties. By a fair examination it would appear that there was a proportionate increase in the Customs, the la6t quarter exhibiting an excess, slot. withstanding the anticipatiuts of hetneeu boo,oool. and 6n0,0001. Seger Duties, Which were paid in dor. ing the p.eceding quarter. Upon all these different views, he conceived that he was justified its catculat. nig upon a surplus in the Consolidated Fei ! d. He bad, however, for the present, abstained from any charges upon it, in the hope that the scheme of finance * which he had now submitted would meet with the approbation of the House, and aliord patisfactio• to the Country. The Right lion. Gentleman concluded by moving his first Resolution with respect to a new anhecriptioe to a 3i per Cent. Fend. Mr. BROUGHAM wished to make a few °Mgr vations oo what had falters from the Right lion. Gentleman, although, considering the great multi plicity of the details into which he had necessarily entered, it could suet he expected that he should fol low him throughout the whole of his speech. These were, in his opinion,' Many things in the statement of the Right lion. Gentleman, and in the principle on which he founded that statee.int, that, in his (Mr. Brougham's) opinion, had an obvious tendency to conceall from the Committee what appeared to him to be the sum and substance of the measure now proposed. The great and new Plan of Finance now broached to the Howe, seemed to him (Mr. B.) to resole, itself Into Ibis (and if he misunderstood it be should be happy to be set right), that • class &Agit existing of somewhere about fourteen millions, that , deficit must someway or other be supplied; and this gnat and new Plan consisted in someway or ether borrowing the sem necessory—in contracting, in fact, a new Loan at three and a half per cent.; the interest of which (to be charged on the Sinking Plated) would "sweat to nearly 1,200,0001. — Whatever .might be the .details of the proposition, that, he coaceleed, to be the result, or, in vulgar language, the upshot of it. Now, after three or four yarn of peace, he, for one, could not consider that a state of things iu which such a proceeding be came aeamsery, was at all flattering. The Right Wearable Gentlest'', indeed, appeared to enter itis very sanguine hopes 'pistolled on a comparison. of the receipts of ono bronchia- the Revenge in the last quarter,' with the'corresponding quarter of 1817. Whether it was probable that these hopes mould be Nand, was a question into which he would not then stop to enquire; but the fact evidently was, that After three years of peace, en far were we from being able to make the two ends of our Finances meet, that • clear deficit existed to the amount which he had already stated ; end that the means resorted to to supply that deficiency were the old war means of a Loso, the interest of which was to be paid, not on the old war system, but by charging it on the Sinking Fond. On this view of the subject, he confessed that he felt it to be wise and prudent to withhold, until he should hi further advised, any congratulations to the Committee on the State of the , Country. The Invention of the new Stock of three I sad a ball per Beat. was another atettepeeeltirit) with his *MOM illfohltedow, he Mast be allowed to Willa odd Ms felicitations. This St ec k, ercor di ng t o the ' Honourable Geestleman's!eoprese tt e a tion, 4 6 1, .ie .Y th/nodltd for a kind of h a lf-say i t ze t heanionet iliteeste and be per ceets. in that 'writer siewnillidi, whitli the Right Honourable' . Gest/masa seemed coafideatly to anticipate they would seeker at no ihrry distant - period. The Right Roo. Gentleman itioteitelued hopes, that at se dis tant (kyr he might lasreesbled to kohl. the holders of - &tread Ate per casts. to *auger their stock to a fend bearing a lowerinterest ; sad said, that if he hod allowed the Stocks to remain as hitherto, divided only loth three, four, end five per cents., he should 1 ham found it dilficalt to effect hie purpose; trod that there berlag been hitherto only the three per cents. into which the Amami five per cents. could be com meted, he halt deelsed this stew plan of • three and a 'half per cent. for the future accoromodathin of the holden of four sad live per coots. He else had de clared, that theedmatoges of his sew plats in this respect were as plain as possible; for that if a holder of five per costs. were required to oommete his stock for a stock bearing a lower Interest, he would rather change it ; he (Mr. Brougham) supposed the Right I Hos. Gentleman was sheet to my, for three and a half per cent. stock than for three per cent. ; but no —be would rather &sage it for three and a half per cent. than for fear: And the reason assigned Was, `that the bolder of 6se per cents. dm at oat* coat. meting his stook for three and a half per cent., world feel confident that it would newer be reduced lower. For his own part, if he had the good fortune to be a large holder of Ike per tent. stock, and if he were asked whether he would commute it for stock at four, or stock at three and a half per emit..he con. hosed that he should think the argument used to persuade trim, to prefer the three and a half per mt.,' wiry metapisysical. He would beg to hove the four per cent. stock in the first instance, and to talk about the three arid a half at leisure— knowing at least this, that while ho retained the four per cent. stock, he should be enjoying a bait per cent, more than he would have done had he embraced the other branch of the alternative. But on whet ground was any holder of 5 per cent. stock to entertain a confidence that if his stock were re. duced to three and a half per cent. it would never be reduced still more?—The same cause, namely, the rise of the Fends, which would give the Chancellor of the Exchequer the power of inducing the bolder of 5 per cents. to accept ..f a similar amount of stock in the 5 per cents., might, if progressive, en , able him to induce the holder of stock in the three l and a half per cent. to accept of a similar amount of stock at a leas interest. lie was at a loss, therefore, I tea see what temptation there was to the holders of 5 I per cents. (in the everit of circumstances warranting I I a.. change) tr, take these three gild o half per cents. I iit preference to 4 per cents.: and if there was no Isuch lemptation, he wished to know with what public benefi - this new and grand financial inven tion was pregnant ?—He could not close the few observations which he had taken the liberty to m 'kr on this subject, wi bout entering his so. :Ann protest against that put of the Right Ho. n..u.able Gentlemen's Budget, by which it was .again proposed to raise a tam comparatively paltry sod contemptible, by way of Lottery; he begged the Con.mittee to remark, in addition to all the objec. toms that had so long milted to this way of raising money, a peculiarity in the present instance—a gross stud paipable inconsistency in tne two parts of the Budget, the Espences, and the Ways and Means. When his lion. Friend, the Member for Worcester. shire, so forcibly argued the abandonment of the Lottery, the Right lion. Gentleman had not a word to say in reply. His answer was a mere sobrogoge to enable him to escape from the effect of his Hon. Friend's observations, and to cling to this favourite mode of Finance. The Right lion. Gentleman ad mitted that it wis liable to all the objections which had been adduced against it by his lion. Friend ; he did not deny its immoral and pernicious tendency; but all that he urged was, Government could not atord to give it op, and thus to do what his conscience told him ought to be done, with a due regard to the mo rals and happiness of the community. Now, how ever, while still clinging to this method of raking money, there w , ts to be found in the same Budget, in which it was again brought forward, an item of 400,0001. to l‘e paid to the Spanish Government for the relinquishment of the Slave Trick?, es a fit sa crifice to that justice and morality, which by the grossest inconsistency, the proposition for raising a , sum of money by way of Lottery tended to trample under foot. Ile could not conclude the desultory observations with which lie had troubled tfie Com mittee, without entering his protest against this pro. peskiest ; for althoegh he knew that there were other Honourable Membibrs who would do so with greater elect, be could not allow the first opportunity of eontending against the contingence of so base a re source to pass, without availing hisiseif of it. Mr. GRENFELLobsertted, ha could not but feel considerable pain in looking into the plans of the Right lgonoarable Gentleman ; and he had told him, eometitne ego, having had an opportunity elsewhere of impressing his sentiments, that . the terms of his arrangement wen most ettravagant. He was, in fact. giving roar and a half per cent. for his lout of three millions, which was to be raised at 66 ; and he was funding achequer Rill. at 79, making a dif. Terence of 131. on this sum, or somewhere about 20 per teat. Thus a loss of 600,0001. would be sus , tamed by these transactions, and the only advantage lathe Public was the contingent one, of indocieg the holders of the three and a half per cent. stock to ac cept three per cent. for it, st the end of ten years.— The option given to the subscribers to fund Fische. quer Bills now, or on the Wilt of May, was also an incalculable advantage, for if the stocks rise, the holden would be disposed to fund their Exchequer Bills; but if stocks fell below 75, they would be disposed to say to the Right Hottherable Gentleman, , 6 We will have nothing to do with you or your Et. chequer Bills." Mr. Al A BBERLEY thought the harp n was ad vantageous for the Public, and dosiolventeganas to the subscribers, except that part which gave - an option in the funding of Exchequer Bills. He wished to know the deficiency on tire Consolidated Fend for the present year, because he understood the charge of the sew debt wee to be borne by that fond. The CHANCELLOR - of the EXC H EQU Eft e:- , „ plained, that of the 14 millions deficiency to be pro. aided for, a considerable portion arose from extraor: dinary charges is the course of the year, notoitb. standing the most rigid economy had been called for by the public service. He hoped that out year the, would be an increase on the Consolidated Fuw!, the deficiency of which had bean in the kit Tear slip accounts a ere made up to sth Jsoos ry, amelontr thing less than two millions, compared Atith 110, charges upon it. The Learned Gentleiissis . (Mr. Broughain) bad expressed his muffin that any one sheelif prefer St per cent. to 4 per cent. stork. 'One reason was, that it was not to be paid oil for tuts years, at least, and it approached so near the rata of interest, to which the Moneyloarket was likely to settle down, that the people felt a conideoce in its continvance, end the store readily subseribed. As to the option of funding'Eacbequer Bills, he had no doubt the subscribers would take it, judging , by past experience ; and if they should not, be was certain there would be many .otheri ready Id jump into their places. • Mr. F. LEWIS said, 'money could beget reedily at four per coot. why then should the Government give four ;Wends ten ? • This was a less which might be ascribed to the circumstance of mak. ing this a close Losit, insured of following the old practice, and leaking it all open one. He supposed the maim Kew sod intent of the plats was, to pre. 'pare Awl*, for the reelection of the fourth and .fifth to the three and as half per cent. stock; end he would otaisitain, that no attempt of the kind could be et/retool, sill the three and a hall per abuts. *ere aaftootiitiety. He could not conceive why the Right ' Hon. Gentleman should not create stock at three sad a half per cent. when he might want it. The plan yes a btesiting in upon alt stock, and prodked nothing but confusion, giving, however, pro [onto a bonus to the three and a half per cents. If the stock to be paid off was at a tuner rate of interest thau that which was newly created, a plausible rattan was ratiorded for subscribing to the latter. This was the fact at present. The Government was paying off at r3l. 155. per cent. and borroeitsi at 41. UN.-glieer, hear !] —Ai to the Sinking Food, it was merely a nominal piece of machinery so called, there WAS scarcely any such thing, and the expenditure mutt be greatly reduced, or ten tales imposed, before it could be madeefficient. Mr. HART DAVIS pointed out many adnntage4 es likely to result from the plass : the chief of which was, that the Government would have to pay a less rate of interest than if a Loan *as funded in the three per cents. Mr. lIIJSKISSON Alerted, that it would be dea sirable for the Commissioners for the National Debt, to employ a port of the Sinking Fund in redeeming the newly created stock, when its relative valets was below that of other stock. Ile always thought it would be more desirable to borrow money at a higher rate of capital, when, by doing so, the rate of interest might be lower; and on that account he would always wish to see a great redaction of the not► initial amount of the debt, bemuse by that means we should be able to borrow money st a less rate of In. le Ht. TI.III lan year was one of very greet &pros_ floral all the branches of the Funded Debt; the Re. venue had greatly fallen off; and it was necessary to have recourse to the mutant, of the Sinking Fond: It could trot be expected that we should have a great Sinking Fund at the evince of the price which the public must pay for it; he could not see the economy of ti Sinking Fond beyond the ne cessity of extinguishing the debt. it was 6t his Right Ron. Friend should show that he had other resources besides those ordinarily resorted to in war, and that there should be no permanent arrangement as to a Sinking Fund. Mr. J. P. GRANT said, the only saving here wee, that of a Sinking Fund in proportion to the debt created: and he contended that a greater rate of interest was to be paid by taking 111. and paying 10,. upon it, when added to the stock already 'tieing. Mr. C. GRANT conceived It to he a new end mil. chimes principle to say, that the nation should pay for more than it had actually received. The net► plan had the effect of lowering the rate of interest; and on that account it was highly advantageous to the Public. On the whole, the plan was the beat that could be derived. Mr. LYTTELTON strongly objected to that part of the Budget, which related to a Lottery for the en. suing year. lle assured the House, that ha wood o w all occasions oppose this pernicious system. Mr. GRENFELL asked if the Chancellor of the Exchequer thought it would be more ad►issble to purchase the 3i per cents. at 91, than the 3 per cents. at 8 , 'l•he CHANCELLOR. of the EXCIIEQUEft replied, that for the first year, he should advise that the Commissioners should purchase from the three and a half per cents. by applying to that purpose the one per cent. appropriated to tee reduction of that debt. . Mr. GRENFELL observed, that for many years on the makioc of every new Loan, a fee yrs, paid to the Bank of England for the deposit of the Iran : these fees were proportioned to the amount of the ,sums deposited, and had been paid to an immense es. tent. He wished now to ask the Right lion. Gentle. man at what rate now the Bank was to receive tiled • fees?—Was it for three millions, or for thirty mil lions ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER answered, that though he did not feel tt decorous to state what the Commissioners might do, yet it might be advisable, under the circumstances, to apply more than one per cent. in purcha;.ing three and a half per cent. Stock. Mr. GRENFELL replied, that as he now un derstood a charge was to be made, whether the sea, was made on three millions or on thirty millions, he would oppose it in ever• stage. The Resolutions beim all agreed to, the Report was ordered to to received to•m rrow and thir Committee was ordered to sit again on Wednesday nest. Mr. BF.NNETT postponed the Committee oo the Ofreodere Conviction 13.11 to Meads) , nest, in cons/Aware of the regeest of Mr. Stores Onerne, who wished the Perish Vestries Bill to hove the pre- POOR LAWS AND PARISH VESTRIES AMENDMENT Oo the motion of Mr. S. BLMJRNE. the Hons. roolverl • itself into a Coarainec oo the Parish Veruirs A., ,