The Statesman. — London, England, 1815-04-20 00:00:00

WAYS AND kfIiANS. The CIIANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER having moved the reeding of the Order of the Illy for the House resolving itself into the Committee, gloved that the different Acts respecting the Property Tax shonlri he entered as read. ' Mr. %V Ul'll3ll EAD said, that it must be in the recollection of the, House that their table had been covered not long since,. with . Petitions from all parts of the country a !nisist the Property Tax. - The Chan reline of.-the Exchequer hail,. however,. then come forward, and had forestalled the more general ex presiion of the public opinion, by declating that it nits not his intention to resort 'gain to that tax, un less in the event of war; which at' that time appeared Tem improbable. He had, however, in consequence of his sinteartit that 19 millions would be necessity fo'r a pence expenditure; proposed a number of other taxes in lieu of this Property Tax : all of which, with Ahe exception of the Assessed Taxes, he now understood him to have abandoned. This either proved that he nes i most unskilful financier; and understood very little about the mode of devising tikes. or else it showed that the ordinary system of taxation had completely' failed, and that it was not phs-ible to raise any more *money by it. lie . had suggested the possibility of the tax being revived it case of a war. He wished, there. fore, now to know ' what was the situation of the country, whether it was to be considered al in astate of war or peace? He wished that the Noble here? (Lord Castlereagh) would inform the House, wetter it was true that a Treaty had lately been aihttvil at Vienna, by any Ministers either authorised itj - this Government or unauthorised. It appeared that we bed now come to times, when Ministers without any authority would Venture to commit the country by their arts. The tiousemight he told•thak what vier tie Duke of Wellington might have done would Ofttlly jutstilied upon home future Occasion: but he (Sought that they hada right now to learn whether the Gorernment of 'ibis country was in fact com mitted to a war with- Frani*. He 'understood, that such a Treaty .had beefs sighed; that it was Glandes! upon the .Treaty of Chaumont; bat that there wag this additional engagement, that under no circumstances would they treat with' the present Ruler of France. Ile also wished to' be informed whether it was true that there hail been recently an engagement to ltaly,,between the Austrian and Nea. pdlitan troops,' and to' the . disadvantage of the for mer ? He was also anxious to know whether the No ble Lord Meant. to disavow those letters to him, and purporting to Conte horn Mm, which were now daily corning forward in the'Pnbfic Papers?' Tie had no Wee * how those letters Cattle before the public. It would appear that es if there was i great rent in the NobleLord'a portfolio, or a hole in his travelling trunk, for there were daily, letters ,published, which nobody could doubt were.writtert by him. Indeed his Lord tgip wil stow so completely, before the public as a sielfer, that, 'hom*? buintelligible and ambiguous Ida fetters were,' the' stile could not be mistaken.— I twould be for' the consideration of the House, wee. Iker they would afford the means to Ministers to ptiingstlitti country' in another war, the issue of which via ' eierri7ot4y doubtful, and the objects of which appoared uujastiliahle. ;Lord CAiI'LERPAGII could only conceive two olljeit's foi the questiisis , proposed. The first alight be, to endeavour te'pers'ulide the (louse that the mea. sure to' yip proposed to them this night was unneces sary, and ought not to be•adopted. The only , other object that he could conceive was, to indite! the' House to pronounce its opinion on those detached paintsto which the Honourable Gentleman culled their attention, Now, as to the first object which he had' sated, the House Would be able id judge, whether Were was - not already a sufficient case stated to them, err Woe* theta:to agree to the measure proposed. 7-- Ile thought, however, that the Honourable Gentle- min reasoned somewhat . ton rapidly, when he in (erred, that because his Right Honourable Friend through? it necessary In propose an augmentation of the vevenue this year, that, therefore, all the ord!- naty.souirer of the revenue must hare failed. •The Ilenourable Gentleman was, fortunately for the country, very incorrect, in regard to fact, upon this point.' His flight Honourable Friend had certainly 'sever pledged himself that he wools' not resort to this Measure, in that sort of mixed state in which the country now stands between peeve and war.— [Hear,. hear! Irons -the Opposition Benehes.]—The Ilostontable Gentleman had asked him whether he was ready to avow or disavow certain papers? He should milyaiiswer, that when the proper time should coon* for discussing those topics, he should be very ready to submit the whole of his conduct to the con sideration of. the House: but when the Honourable Gentleman talked of these disclosures as necessary to his justification, he must bay that he was sure the ]louse would not think it right, that merely for his omit justification he should sacrifice the public inte rest, and let Incise all the documents of Government to the criticisms and cavils of that Honourable Gen tleman. He might, indeed, be glad to get hold of all those papers immediately, in order to try if he could not pick some hole in the proceedings of Government. My. Fox, however, acted very differently, and dis tinctly laid it down"that he'did not think it right to press ,Government for their instructions to their Mi niver!' or Agents. The -acts of Government spoke for throve:reit, and were fair subjects of comment ; but mere instructions, which were often inoperative, I could not so fairly be bronght before the Houk.. lie believed that the Honourable Gentleman was the vlry first Member in (hat Reuse who pressed for capips of the instructions given by Ministers. As tai the situation of the country at the presentmoment, i.e was not now prepared td give any information to the House; but he was convinced that as soon as it could be given in any intelligible ARO, it would be the wish of Government to lay it before the House. Mr. PONSGNBY thodelit that the Noble Lord must he wrong in supposing ? that Mr. Fut wopld never have calkil for instnictions givio by Ministers.. Slopasing the case to be such, That he eltotight an impesellinent should be. breught apinseMinliters,' how could he have the proper evidence without mow.' ioefor It Try Of the instructions they fiad Veal — A s to'inst reclions,.the Noble. I.orsllilii, how6er,' ''....1 th.b ''....1,:i log , efore "the liou4e,. es fir, t Ivor Her Olt nit see what detriment • Id' the public sersice, if the Noble 'fed the (cession, whether there had e(olsrtited to fliq Y reyetleok it en, , r ci.uld m of Lend bad a;iicPi - . . • THE STATESMAN. or had not been an cngagantent in Italy between the Austrians and Neapolitans. Neither could he see what detriment would isavd been produced by his avowing a letter, which, iirfact, he did avow by bis silence. I Lord CASTLERE.AGIi,, in explanation, said, that even in the supposed case of moving an impeach : ment, it must be for some act done upon the instruc tions, as, instructions were frequently inoperative, ! and ofte'n countermanded. Mr. WHITBREA D hoped the House would al low him to make some observations, in the way of .explanation. The Noble Lord had misunderstood him, in supposing that he had positively stated that the sources i'f the :revenue had failed. He had put this with an atterpetibe ; and had said that either they'b4 faile?,-nr'ellie the Chancellor quer *Win a Very onskilfil 'finsineler.. • The House Would see that this was a very different thing from stating that the 'sources of the revenue had failed.— [A laugh.]—As to the anticipation of the Honoura. 'hie Gentleman on thst'other side 'of the House, that the dos; of trial to the Noble Loki would'he a day of complete triumph, their tone 'appeared to have been mecca altered cir lite. They do longer boasted of the additional honoers slid glory that the Noble Lord Would gain by his conduct at Vienna. He was • surpriied to hear theNeble Lord, who, when Mr. Ant was a ltving, disiegarded his prophetic warnings, and 'scorned his wisdom, now come forward and quote the, authority of Mr. Fox, whom he had al ways apposed, in defence of his proceedings. If any invocation could cull that great spirit from the grave, it would be the voice of the Noble Lira ap pealing to his autherity. He, however, felt can. vinced that If that' groat man had still lived; he would have withdrawn his confidence from the Noble Cord at the same time that he did, when he found hini' oiterly Ondeserving of that confidence. The Noble Lord Should even now shudder and shrink at the bare imagination of the constitutional indignation t that great' matt *mid have felt at his proceedings, and the, powerful eloquence with which be would have reprobated them. Sir M. itIDLEY was anxious to enter AT• pro test against this most obnoxious measure. He knew of no circumstances which could induce him to con sent to the Property Tax. As to war, we were not at war ; and lie thought that some attempt at least should be made to,negociate with the individual who was now on the throne of France. He thought that, among the resources of the country,etonomy should be tried. It was afflicting to hear of Nl:grievous Tax being proposed, immediately ifier the House had learned that the expenses of the Civil List ex ceeded the estimate Tait year by half a million. Sir FREDERICK FLOOD wished to put a question to the Chancellor of the Exchequer for Ire. Sand. A very considerable agitation prevailed in that country, from the fear that it was the intention of the Right Honourable Gentleman .to introduce this measure into Ireland. That country had not, by no means, recovered from the . great embarrassments which she had been under the whole of last year, and from which she indeed expected some relief in future by the passing of the Corn Bill. Mr. FiTzGERAID did not feel that he could be then called upon to state:what financial measures intended to propOse'for Mr. BANK ES wished' shortly to state osi what grounds he could vote for the Tax. Lo?kleg upon tit as a temporary measare, be thoug ht st rendered is necessary for the winclitig op of our eispeniel, and 16. meet the new 'events Which had oceur'red; but if I" the Income Tax was looked to as a system to be con [tiiiired, he would be .no party to any measure that I threw an intolerable hurthen on this country to the exemption of Irelund. [Bear, hear !] In 'that view it would be a most unjustifiable tax, and he should feel it his duty agent to call the attention of the House to the subject, Sir F: BURDETT took thatwpportanity of pro. testing against the renewal of the Property Tax, as to the equality had justice of which he entertained 'very different ideas from the Hon. Gentleman who had preceded him. Before any such measure was Iproposerk the Petitions with which the table had been loaded should be referred to a Committee, to enquire into the allegations of grievances which they -contained; It was demonstrated by those Petitions, not only that the Property Tax had been productive of numberless cases of individual oppression, but that it was in principle unjust, and that it was in fact a tax not only on property but on income, and that it had been submitted to, when first imposed, as a temporary contribution to be paid perhaps for one year only, as the expectations at that time, as to the speedy ter. urination of the contest, were very sanguine. But he was persuaded that if this tax were again laid on, lit would never be taken hcarri— Not only was the tax unjust and unequal in itself, bat it was brought forward under every disadvantage, be ' mite up to the present moment there was no iiifor. illation as to the state in which the country was.— [Hear, hear'!]—The House was first called on to give the money, and they were afterwards to be in formed ns tow hat was to be done with it. This was so improper and so unparliametitary a line of conduct, that he could not agree to support any such giant. It was important to the country to know in the first place, what was the real state of our relations, and not to be satisfied with' a strange ambiguity of expression of the Noble Lord [hear!] which was perfectly incomprehen. Bible to his (Sir F. Burdett's) understanding. He hoped the House would not suffer itself to be plunge] into a war of which they could not foresee the ter mination., but which they could not doubt would be full 'Of calamity, and would impose on 'the already over-laden People, burthens which could With diffi culty be borne, and which, it was his opinion, shoold'not Ise borue, if we were engaged in such a contest, for causes which, in the present dearth of informatimi l .,had been'yelated in that House or else where. As tinder the necessity of the war the bur tlfen of the Property Tax. had been supported, the renewal of it watt the jeer,. firmly to be'oppOaed un til the enquirt. Was seadeinto . the troth of those is's:. Watkins wkich were. contained in the Petitiens which had been presented ig . sinst that Tax;, these, Petitions Were more n'tinierous than those which had been Presented on any other subject, acid would hate been still more ntiMerovis if the Chancellor of the Exchequer had not deprecated the presenting many which had been agreed to, and he had himself one in his p7ssession which he had not thought it necessary to present. With the view which•he toots situation of the country, he felt, 'even at thpt earl? stage, and in that tint of debate, that he shoidalsnot do his duty without protesting ag ainst the confab* . such a power to the hands (5 . Ministers, who had shown that they were not worthy of confidence, and who would involve the country in a war more cala mitous than . aoy which we had ever been engaged Mr. BENNETT could not help considering this measure as a first step towards war ; but he never could give a vote for embetking this country ii, so unprofitable and hopeless a contest as that pfire-esta blishing the Bourbons on the throne of France. If the intelligeecst in circulation be true, Oak the king of Naples, or Marshal Murat, as the Noble Lord 'canal him; had entered Bologna, that the Aestrlasur were flying before him, amid that the Italians Were in insurrection, then war had already commenced in'a part of. the Coutinent.—lle should be glad ,if one result of it was the formation of Italy into a large independent country, and if Genoa also were rescued from the grasp of the Noble Lord and his coadjutors at the Congress, and restored to its in dependence. Mr. PROTHEROE thought, that to the exer. tions which the Income Tax enabled us to make, we were principally indebted for the successful termina tion of the late war. He believed also, that his constitnents, under the present circumstances of this country, and of Europe, were prepared to make great sacrifices. He Would not stop to enquire at present into the proceedings which had taken place at the Congress; a proper time would arrive for that enquiry ; but is the mean time, from the conduct which Ministershad pursued in bringing the late war to an honourable termination, he was prepared to arm them with fall means; either for vigorous war or safe peace. • [Bear !] fie ,re joiced to hear that the great Powers.of the Continent were united. lie was not for tbia country urging them on to hostilities . ; but if there existed among them one common conviction of the goodness of their, cause, and of the necessity of exertion, he trusted that he should not witness any vacillating half measures on the part of this country, but that such aid would be afforded them as might command success. At the same time public feeling should be soothed by the retrenchment of every unne cessary expenditpre. Mr. TIERNEY said, th 4 pninformed es he was of the situation and relatioue of the country, he must protest against voting for the Ineome.Ter. It was impossible for him to assent to a tax . mpst adieus and oppressive to the.people at large, withaat,any one reason or argument being assigned for it callus part of Ministers. The House knew nothing at all of the exigencies of tine. cal. From "ail that he had heard or learned ,ually, it wig ,hie con , viction that it would beek i ewn fault if we did pot remain at peace thear„fig9l3. he had no doub t that the Continental Coarts.e•euld be willing .enoggh to go to war if we weelcr i bet l'isre'ish there vrich ,the means ; but was it ! f ) p,•Lionie frinbe Met 7 ,- ternich, Prince Hardenberg,nnd others, lionid Mete out the property of Knell/ 4 14 end be aupplied from its very liSt kesoerbes?,.,.This might last for ene qr }two gears at the farth est, bat in the end it would.. •OpoLutelereits.the . finammoCßogland, '' . .lle.,ketts , ftii for Ihistotgave bla.coptidence to Ministers for which 114 y had terminated the fate : war ; but ho'w came it, he, would ask, that we were now in this jeopardy., put- in ; consequence of the gross neglect and mhimettatement et these hlitsisterst [Hear i n V V hat was dui fesFlt of that gloriosa war? lied we not .even in PesCe a to maintain 7¢,006 twee during the ; whole .of , last par, and now„we were called,epop, to support 4otible . thit nuspber ? Was there any Snits who seould den' y,that the honour and chareetpr . of this cosontry'had been disgraced by the • conduct °fps representative at the Congress ? The Nedlle 4 o'ra had all that conduct to account for, and lit was hotted Ids yiet 'would ,come on at no distant day; and yet its the mean time he had the face to come down to the Hoese.ana say, give me fourteen millions a year, give me the renewal of the Property !'la;, against which more petitions have been pre sented than against any one measure. Was it not ' an insult to the House to say, we must have it, with ; out a jingle reason being assigned ? It 'had been said • that the Continental Powers ought not to be urged into a war; but he would assert that nothing was so likely to make them go to war, as to show them that plenty of money was ready for them from the pockets of the people of this country. Sure he was, that the facility e ith which the Government was in the habit of getting money had caused the waste of many millions. The narrowness and economy of . the estimates was always proportioned to the probe ; Isle ways and means of raising the supplies. Accord ! ittgly, while Ministers had the Income Tax in full „operation, a man could hardly form an idea of the immense expences of this country towards the close of the late war. For the last year the House ,had voted upwards of 24 millions for the army eztraordi panes alone. Upon the whole he would protest against the adoption of any measure which went to sanction a war which in his conscience he thought unnecessary. He had no doubt that the reason why ',Ministers proposed it,. was, -because they had some , Wag in contemplation which they dared not far the present avow. Peace, Ise firmly believed, was with. in the reach of Ministers, and he saw no reason why it might not last for years. Whether the return of Bonaparte to power was .a great calamity to the world or not, he would not Now stop to enquire ; but at any rate he would . say, let us take the chances of peace which presented themselves. If not inter rupted by eircum.aances which slid not at present ap. pear, peace might continue as long at least as it ap peared likely to do under the auspices of the Noble Lord, 'and Princes Metternich and Hardenberg, at the Congress, for they had 300,003 men constantly on foot.. • • Tbs Cl;` NCELLOW or the EXCHEQUER de. nit.d that the ohjeit of the measure was to enable the Crown to go to war. fteresarcall upon the Uouce to perform the pledgf„which they .had so recently lal4 at the foot of the flar e , end he was su r e the cnenterat large would 4el an elect ity in doing so. its Ate House had . detlared, the country cou ld h e prepared foA'either event, pence or war, only by n state.of preparation, it followed that the means of . supporting that. state of preparation must be pro vided. The Right Hobourable Gentleman who spoke last had doubted whether Bonaparte's return was a great calamity; but he was sure that this was cot the general sentiment of the House, or of th e nation. Ile confessed that he now th oug h t he should hive acted more vigorously and more wi.d y , i f with a view to winding up the expences of th e t ate war, he had, at the beginning of the Session, a r m the propriety of retaining the Income Tax one ye ar; but now, while the same causes contineed, and w h ei , the country should be prepared for either mites:mein of peaceor .wef e . hit 4.li4iiiiiht the measure i a di spne. sable. Ire had to slate, that the whole of its duce would-only meet the twelve millions of 1,;„, a , ordinaries of the present year, and the two million, of Navy .Debt. •The °artistry— was in a situotisa which required the most vigaroes financial exerti ons considering that we liad'isfst concluded a ear sit; America, and should now have toward 'off' annth et by precaution. Undoubtedly his 'general feeling was, that the Property Tax should be reserved for a period of war ; but the present was aneztraordinery case, u hich went beyond all the usual rules,'lnd which made it necessary that the coahtry should be placed iiia defensive situation to 'repel a blow, n ot to strike one. llt had no doubt that the change o f circumstances had produced a great change in the feelings of the great body of the former petitioner!. They, he conceived, had merely objected to the ta t , as an ordinary measure for providing for the wants of Government. The Right Ilonourable Gentleman then proceeded to state that the new duties of Cs.. toms and Excise had already passed the Bone. Ne proposed to subilit, also, some additional duties oft, Stamps; and it was only the Assessed Taxes which lie proposed to give up, because, if the Income Tax was adopted, the pressure of both would be incon. venient to the country. As to what his [boom -Able ; Friend (Mr. Bankes) had said of extending the I n . come Tax to Ireland, he must observe, that %hi!, :-the two countries had separate treasuries, end while Ireland ha it . certain quota of the - general eserool;. lure to defray, we could not ehject to her r-i-ing that revenue in the particular way that best suited ; her. If it were found wise at a future period to amalgamate the finance of the two countries, th en , no doubt, such a disparity could not be suffered to I exist, as that a person with the same income on the other side of the Irish Channel should be ten per ' cent. richer than on this. Mr. TIERNEY explained.—lJe had not expressed a doubt whether the return of I3onaparte was cola. mitous or not. Ha had merely said, that whether the return of that man to power was or was not a eatatnity, was not then the question before the House. Mr. BARCLAY thought that Bonaparte had only been replaced on the throne by a soldiery eager for bloodshed and rapine, and who had placed him there becauco they expected nothing but peace from the Bourbons. This state of things required the most vigorous preparations, whether for war or peace; and se.eing no other means for support std such pre. pirations, he shotild 'give his hearty shpport to the • measore. Ile was glad to (earn that the Chancellor of the Exchequer meant to propose sense modifies , tiolanf the tax, end be *should he happy to contri. lute towards such an object, as he was convinced :that the'tax had become•sts very obitoxious chiefly cm account of the mode ortti".ctllection. , The CHANCELLOR. of the F.XCREQUER stated. in explanatien, that as it Weald be only pro. posed for a year, he thought it the best way to take the tax pertly end simply as it had beeu before. Mr. J. 'P. GRA Nl' centeoded, ; that unless a case of . extraordieary emergency was nude. oat, Govern ment had neYright to propose this tit. i'Was it meant that it Should be continued as long as Hiseaparte was -in the throne? lie did not believe a war would take place. It was too Quixotic an Idea to suppose we should enter into a war because Napoleon was MI the throne, and the people of France No universally quiescent that no persons at all had stood *ward to oppose him ; therefore, until his Majeaty's Minister. did actually declare that such was their intention, he could not Suppose that any man living would believe it, He must, therefore, object to the Speaker's teat , ing the Chair: Mr. CALCRAFT said, that Whether there was war or peace, the establishments of this country must necessarily be higher than 'on former occasions ; and in his opinion, a modified restricted Property Tex would have been mope efficient than those which bad been proposed in its stead. If the Chancellor of the ; Exchequer, or some other Member, did not propose any such measure, be would endeavour to obtain modification of many parts of that tax. From the ( vote of the other night on the Address to the Pau/ Regent, the House had agreed to place the country in a formidable state of defence ; and he would beg leave to ask if tLere were any mode of doing that so Ilikely to answer the end as by adopting the Properly i Tax ? In supporting the question for the Speaker's leaving the Chair, lie by no means looked on hiinselt as pledged to support the Property Tax, in whatever 1 shape it might be brought forward. Mr. 11. MARTIN said the Property Tax eat well known to be universally obnoxious, and the ; Chancellor of the Exchequer had not dealt fairly by t the House to induce them to rota the large saw the,' had already agreed to give, if he. had it at the time in contemplation to revive so odious a measure. He should, therefore, not only oppose the Spi;kia's leaving the Chair, but would, in all the subsequen t stages throw every impediment in its way. Mr. Alderman C. tiNi !Tit vs as of epininn, that if the Property Tex had hems properly modified , it would have been far better,. and infinitely more eifi cient than those which had been proposed. He oac Ihappy to say, that he knew nine in ten of his stitnents were of the same opinion ; and he believed the great body of the peoyle bore the same pupa- t ion. Mr. C. GRANT said, he be:icroil the opini•"' of the rople as to the Property Tax hid of tat.' bred considerably changed, but he could Rot beln , :e the observations of the lion. Gentleman who •polo. last but one could be correct as to the conduct of Geo• ttemen on his side of the House, when he stated that they had been induced to vote on the Address be' cause this tax was supposed to be gi%en up by Right lion. Friend. lie had that night heard marl about protesting; but for his own part, he the"g•'' . it necessary to protest against the injustice of makii.g this measure the subject of a personal attack uo vie Noble Lord. lie thought the invectives which tind been used were highly unnecessary, and most Oliu'i* ous to the character of the country. ilc %rota or F a I t. tJ O t 0 C ti it h II 11 I'l fl rl 1 , ti 111 th 111 eI /It th hr tb tlf et 111 n.l fa ll co rn its thl th en ha Il+. thl tic ne he Ica sec pn mu V 4 lit . 111( 51! till tii: eq.( del the Cct 1;n at '1 pa I im its hin t\ii aps Sul al ei or Pei el 11 id Ise li f It *yr tly she cps the ilia plat I k