The National Register. — London, England, 1819-02-21 00:00:00

FEB. 21 timid not he aseertained, yet there was no doubt there were thousands if them to London. Mr. 011,1tANKFlf wished the plan le hemorlified. Col. WOOD wished that the chimnies that cont 4 not be swept by the machines might lie bitrut as anon as possible. Mr. Bnouonatit defended the BEI against the charge of being visionary. A similar enactment had - been !made in the time of Mr. Pitt, who warn a practical Statesman. The Bill only interfered with the tights of parents end masters Witco that interference was called for by the nature of the case. Mr. DENMAN thought, that if the saperiurity of machines over the present Hunk. Will. so great, it did not want the Legis lative Act. The common sense of the Public world trash them to which to give the preference. Boys hail better be employed in sweeping chin:flies, than in thieving and rob bins. Mr. Witnenroace said, that in the ditensaions on the Slave Trade, it had been objected to any proposal for the better treatment of the Slaves, that it was uuneressary ; as it was the interest of the owners to treat them well ; the fallacy of which was apparent, from the treatment these unhappy beings had received before the intervention of the Legislattire. 1 unculatiou had long been known before it was generally practised; and it was well known NM' difficult it was to do away with established practices, though it was intended to substitute better in their room. After afew words hors Mr. BARTIABI, the House went into the Committee. Alderman Woon, on the proposition for fixing the age of the children, wishetit to he fixed at 14 ; for if lest, the Meals. testes would Wive extreme ililliesilty in ascertaining their *exact ages, so as to impose the penalties. Besides, if they live to be boyoutl that age, they become too large to go lip conseqactitly they have no' employment at all; whereas if machines were tied. they could .get employ. anent. Me. OMMANNEv said, that every chintney sweeper had a cheerful COIIIaPII.IIICC. They weer of ism aspiring character, and would make good seamen. Mr. BENNET Was a.totikhed to hear lurch assertions, when every day they saw miserable maimed children in the streets. There was a ease of a father selling his child to a chimney sweeper. The age of the children was then fixed at I.l.fur their being bound apprentices. and not before; and to continue ar „prenticis till 21. Mr. I)I.ItNIAN moved, that the forfeiture should be omitted ; as he considered heat it was sufficient to make the indentures of a boy under 13 seals void. Mr. RENNET hated on the forfeiture as an additional security. The amendment was then negatives]; and the forfeiture ordered to be not isbove 301. nor under 101. Mr. DENMAN objected to the clause imposing a penalty of 211. nor less than 40$. on any Master Of misteess4iircniploy.. nig boys nosier 14 years of age. as climbing tv b ays, its sweep leg M. flees we said, that this riposte was the BAI; and if the cnnthii!tee abolished this clause, they were welcuino to the Bill altogether. ~ . . . . . • . The clause was, however, carried, nod Ilse Bill passed through the Committee.' Ordered to be, reeortrd on Pi May. • The Usury Laws Repeal . Bill went • through a Committee. Report ordered fur tomiorrow.=A.l;tourned. THURSDAY. Lord CAsTLCREAGII gave notice, that on Thursday next he should trove for a Svlect Couitnittee, to enquire into the state of the Gaols. Mr. LAMISToN gave notice, that en tile 11th of March he would subset a inotiou to the House on the atwjvct of Copy rights. STATE OF ISEAtiSOUTH WALES. Bgai NET rose lac .tdie.Rtitione. o.f moving for a Cam nonce to investigate iit:o the 4iseskitroode of transportiug of. ' fenders, and also to 4(014 lido :be Gate of the Colony of Kew South Wales. The subject to %Osten he hail to call the x:tc.ition of the House, mid the eircuinstincei entitieell4l wit% it, tool which lie should state to the lionsei . eintaid, he co.. - d, be found of Cite utmost importance.. The ,statt! of convicts ore ioas to tra le•rt, firm and the shocking settles duriug lticir sota:!o. e snijeetstealchlAted to excite thee greatest ahhorreare, The Hun. Gentleman entered into a• review of the gteattierea4e in the nit.u!rer of convicts trans ported from 4804 to 1819. lie adusitimi.tiiat the state of the T'ulks was much improved to what they were some tiutcaince; :led that as Mr. C was out' Cu itastrutnent in the hands of Lout Skimmer', lie considered int u it - wee due to the Noble '.ord. Yet the want ut•chissifieation uses aveat a.i• 'retied of life alien tnc mind is flexible mad open to lin piovenient, were associated with tlfendeis of the most bi belot's description, sultiveted -to the danger of mental and emporia poll.); where moo idea only prevailed, hoe the . present moment cobid he passed Yet. tomtit as this was to lameutill, their entrance on Isnard• the transpo is cut.- tinned their utter des raction. Kerr lie must realm that however lie might he mistaken in his formerstaleincut; as to -silt persons being stowed in a crib, lie ( Benin:olra% now prepared to meet the ruble Lord, aii't to prove, by mast nn rpiestionalde evidence, that four we re so emit - Med. Lt had le•eu said, that thr convicts were treated as humanely. as the , ''titers ur R;!iliiii . ll;. but [hie could 1101 udmlt ;• for it was a tort a ell kenaii , that iii the Nosy sir re irsabil!y on M c ls, ai.d lie believed a large' proportion of soldiers, when tits a long voyage; eddy' to which they lead duties to . pet -I.!rni, and were subject to li e ' discipline moil control of COlll - Ittit is; while on the other hand two or three hundred wit's i4lllllllled tit a lilt LOW s e at..., passing their time is the most abominable scenes of licentiousness, gaining, and debauchery ; and thr 110Xi011s smells arcing front filth, were asceedingly offetts-ise and bolesome- He 114,1 hewn in formed by convict!, whom he hail seen, and also by Military officers, that the siitieringa of the convicts, while un heard the trativoi is, exceeded all coneeption ; anti if a Crimultter s'ionld be appointed lie felt persuaded that the facts, proved o i incontestable evidence, would be sulli..iect to abolish tbs. ,i..stent altogether. It wayisot to be fotgotten that the eapcnses o e account of convicts had coat the country no less a cum tie ne 4; 0W; sterling since the year use ri port tu i!le last year, the Co 11111 l ittee stated that in riir! year libn tb eliarg.s amounted tO . 1:16,0)0 1 , raid in Intl they land in cr.-4,yd to 22'..1.15t4.• At- :hat time the sit lett at econJiny had It !it lecoininetided; b u t new es.peuse.i bad been lammed, !tweed et the old ones being abokmed. lie had heavy thaiges to picks. ri 'meeting the- genet al gus ermiteiel of the colony of • New South Wales. 'lite sy it. in 1. I, sited WWI r.mtpusiu.l of injustice and oppression. Govarnor of tie isiand commanded the pricesof corn by.sitost (torahs and unjustifiable I , ,oana. A eputt Waif 111.11Sit),•Cifttliatell Inlaolllll the settlers. la au were little superirs - to paupers, that abe,•6 o *Cfnitt P la Care; acts open, and that-the put* givt.a 1141104 M belatlVl; THE NATIONAL..;IrCiTTIM, when the settlers • ,rived, the stores were shut against them, and the% were-compelled to sr/1 the corn at whet price they could obtain, ail the buyers contrived to get therorn thus perelbeied hits the Government Stores. This seas not All Oreilltiolliil transaction, it happened every day, and formed the general prieviele of action. • Meat was also subjected to a similar control; the general Gosernosetit.price was nil. per lb.; bat if the Giavernor isseed his orders that Id. was to be the price of the day, no one dm ed to give higher. Thus wet e the inhabt tab's of the colons , exposed to the eaprii-ious will of a Goiernor uncontrolled, unchecked, and uesecounting for city acts he might think proper to euferte. The Courts ofJostiee, tuo, required considerable revision ; fur it was actually a fact, that a Mr. Land Lad been appoioted to the Alagisitace, who was likewise an euctietteer, and it was by ' nomeans utilise:ll fur this 111411 to leave the bench of Justice and ascend a cart to sell blankets. The facts that lie had related were all known to the Government ; and he wished to be informed whether his Majesty's Ministeis had taken any steps to correct the abases? I t was impossible to open one of the Gazettes published in Nese South Wales, without hearing of murder, tubbery, and every species of crime, con stantly-occorring. Never was there a country existing on the face of •the globe, in which a greater portion of crimes prevailed, than in that colony. The Hon. Gentldniau next adverted -to the conduct of Governor Alacquarrie ; who thought It, of hiiown seebrd, to order three persons te be whipped,. fur passing over smile ground which he Was pleased to call his pink. (Inc of these persons was a most ingenious artist, the discoverer of a mat-Line by which the Govern o r ' gained le,opt)i.. fle gaoled This as as instance of the ill effect obit.' power pi latticed in turning the Itead.of evem a worthy man, as lie believed Col. Plat-gnat sic to be. There wits a proof from the' Committee appointed in 1312, that a Govet nor think& ire lies power to Whet .SGO inslies of his own accord, for the enforeetue . tit, not of the English emnitiou law, but of the-eolottial systeM. 'lids tact lie could prove by tile person who had stelfereti; audio: his part he was at a loss to find out why the Government olimild entinet the safety of 20,0011 subjee Is to the absolute disposal of a Governor witheat is Cou n cil. He should next pass to a cuusideration of the mural and religious cumin:ton of the inhabi tent* of the coloity. There ei:l4.il lel ge porton; of Melt Catholics their, who hail no means of receiving instreettem, except that to which they were faced. luc onsequeure of this they, us he was informed, preferred to remain unmarried% rather than to submit to a religionS ceremony of which they disapproved. A. elm gymati weal out from Ireland of his own 'accord to the colony : and before he proceeded to notice the treatnieut treatment which this Clergyman experieuced, lie should say, that be was nu friend to the Catkolic religion, and that the world methd lie better When it ceased to exist.—(Bear, hear, hear!)—The Governor, wishing to have unanimity on ' telietous subjects, put the priest iu gals/. Was it not better,' however, hr wonid RA:, to have forty religions and inutality, than only one religion and vice. As a proolot the deficiency Whiell existed in regard of seligioue instritetion, he could , mention, Mat nut more than 490 amine were ever kit twit to attend elite eh. Toe lion. Geittleinae next noticed the de ficiency Of school eilneetiUsa, and tke inettention paid to the couslition of malty unhappy females in the colony, Who were obliged to suilpui e. thernselvee by vrostitu lion ; hold, its con. lineation of tits statement, read a letter to that effect limn Mr. hleciden. lie afterstatels commented on the facility With whichlicensos ere greete i r d to persons of tulantom ellAtlSC ter in Ate colo , y, iiid reprObated the impuliey and immoral edema pt educed: ifs eunbeipsetice. He had; 'howeeer, no hestiatiun in admittitig-thet if wise leeislative Meneetres•were. ' edupted, the esduny might be of. Meet beuefit is iiiiigotitZlry.: As a proof of the ill (elects produced by the went cif.wit agticullarel popeletion in the • eoloity, he could state, that whets a distant settler upplieileo elie Governor for only three 'hesbetithueo, he was obliged is send Misr two tailors and a Laistilon pickpocket —(Mucli .Laughieg.)—The expense itt mertesl by the country in transporting the convicts Wheetbere Met sent, to the colouy aseminteil to at least teel.letifoo.'Now lid cutactived, that Peutteittieriee might be established in flAs enmitrs ler less expenee. So far was he front being au enmity le seves . punislimeets, that, on the contrary, lie would wislsto pettish strongly, bet with wisdom and iliseretium— The real check to crime, however, world be, to insure Meth i s of sletectiou . ; to snake the public believe that the commissiou of crime woted invariably be followed by detection and stile punieteneett of it. The liunowralde Meitilser conelotinel by *nosing—" 'l. bat a Committee should be appointed to itiquite liutolue system or transpurtatiou of °Reenters, and the State ot the s coletty of New South %Vales. Lord CASTLEREAGH did not wish to be considered as lii opponent to the Hun. Gentleman of the general merits of she .piestimi ; but if he could prove that he was not relSlliag the best method for ate ' g l'lll II his 0%111 rod, lie hoped that the Hots. Gentleman would joie with Inns. He thought that the information which the Hon. Gentleman wished for. 'Meta be 'with ireLter ad salimge obtained under a mote general inquiry 'mid lie did not thick that a ease had been simile out, which called fur a separate inquity. His Majesty's Government had • already instituted un terrify tespeeting the colony el Nese • South Wales; and lie could assure. the Hon. Gentleman that he wield have no 'mediation in giving hint such information its might he derived fruits that inquiry ; information selliCh he might other% iw find it diftirtilt if nut impossible to obtain. ( Hear, hear! )—He would sincerely give the Hon. Gentle man credit tot the best of meti yes ; limit nt•the same limo he must add, that hr atilt ew so tem li lausieble zeal Mtn this in quiry, that lie buffeted Unmet( to pieties a little smote of his personal character for the' accuracy of his etatement , than inigist, pet hops, befouled endientits ur prudent. Tite eensitive mind of the Hots Geatleirean could nut Ise.nr the conslitioit:oe Our Soldiers or 'milers on board transports ; but so fee es his experience lit cruseeng the Channel went, lie never fotshil 1 packet boat tilled with messengers, even if they were holies, ,very pleesiug after a squall h oled.—(Hear, hear I and laugh !cr.! —Engaged its the 111/lIAII was ia a multiplicity of linsinese ' it has no small objection to the motion of the Has. Gentle man, thorn metha tend to nicrease the poultice of Cesiumittees unnecessarily; a disadvantage wlecit noelat be, in sume mete sore,yensoveit by adopticg the store cosepreltentive motion for a Committee of Illtiliily Imo the state of the Petal Cede. His lordship conclitiled by olsservine, that as be did not wish to ' negative the *notion oldie lion. I:reticle:le directly, he should leither move the' th del cif the Dev, oi that a G 1111 l 'settee he ap. pointed to inquire into the state of the Cu iiiiinal Lae, sit fee as petaled vo tositsisonmeet and tt anspoi ration. After the original motion end aliteeiterect 0( re 1,11.1 flo/11l the Chail, Mr. WItIIERIVItEa: Ilealli with surprise and concert! toe speech of his Nubic Friend. lii the tiisi 11.111 °Otis speech We Noble Lord Eel 'tied adverse to all twilit, y, anti in the tiiii• Muslim lie seemed to, lit efer a Mile' ent mode. Its had hoped that the Nohle laud would have taken a ditferetit - com se. The Re port of tits. Cennuittee of 1d1 . .; was a good reason for the appointment of a Committee at pre:s:e - nt, to see why the proposed reforms had net been carried fain execution. TI e Criminal Code was a nominal, tint a rt al,. system, as the lan s were not pm in execution. A knowledee of facts roation to New South Wailer night enable the 110.0 e tdste what reforms • might be made iu the Code. Upon the, plan of the Noble Lord the inquiry could :Sever come to a 'ranelo.ion. If it was intended to prevent inquily, a mere, effcctual mode could not possibly be adopted. Many of the facts stated by the lion. Gentleman eslled loudly CUE and hail been unknown to the Committee of 1812.—(Hear, bear !)—Slumfal the coloay not be reformed, it ravtild be a nest of vipers in that part of the VfJI Id. Mr. GOULDURN rimlied, at comidtstable length, to *hat had fallen from Mr. Bennet and Mr. Wilberforce. He should himself 'vote for the previous question; bitt•from no wish to • . stifle enquiry. Government were uniciott• to strut ont.Cilk gymen to New South Wales, but few Yorte,.'... seVin . g.to.les4i; .; • their native country. With respet to tlfeCatliolic men who Wad been sent home, the feet was; , lliat he had mails application to Lord Batherst to he sent •It ; but upon enquiry being made to his eceltsimfical superiors, they b a d reported that he ss as a man unfit to have the cage of souls. With respect to the small number of females that attended the Church at Sidney, it should be recollected, that from Ibl4 • to ISIS, the number of males transported had been 3555, and of females only 29L—And that tact perfectly explained the circum.lance alluded to. . Me: CANNING said, with resneet to the nintion and its eb jiiti, it certainly complained of the severity of tin'. law. GA Almighty &rind, if the safety et sor;ety emild he'prexerve,cl by tameless severe, that he should say Ite low ought to coa:i nue as it was. Bet at the time tiro( Gentlemen Wore thus exciting the feelings of sympathy for the otletiders against the laws, let it not be forgotten that they also sit to legisleto for the preservation of the peace, the property, and even the lives, of the Public; and he could not but regret these soils of discussions, which, as ithowt having provided, or even.6lN vsted, any other system, had the effect of unhinging that which had so long existed. If any selleme could be suggested by which tiecondary poilislintents coed he rendered efficient, there mothd he but one epiiiimi as to coon al prsishment. Mr. 'I•1E.1 NEY eatittloleti, that the present umbel) ought to be nen - ad to, and ought Hot to le superseded by the Noble Lord's auntie. The inquiry into time state of the eon•ict- • ships. and the Colony of New South Wales. would furnish sufficient mailer for enquiry for oat Committee; while the Noble Lord's motion, respecting tile state of the prisons. would abundantly employ mother Comniittee ; and he could not see s hat emtriection there was between the two sub jects which rendered it necessary that they ikatild 'lota be teetered to one Committee, unless ii was fur tha pnrposc of. preventing ally Report being nude du ring the present Session. The Noble Lord bad said. • C 11111 l nitters could plot be found now there weir so many Elec. . tioa aril oilier Committees sitting. He hod no doubt, if the • Noble I.olil would, agate to the motion, that he could get, on a milkject of lin iantiy, 10 Committees in 10 minutes; but if the whole subject was referred to one Coottnivee, the Noble Lord Would no more get a Report this year thou he woultraget to Botany Bay this year. , • Mr. &statelier sass in favour of the previous question. Mr. C. WYNNE was to (avour of the uriciiial motion. The, House divided :—Fur the fruition, da —Fur the previews question, 130—Majority aa . . . FRIDAY.. l• Orders were made OW tee to' the attendance of Members • pa ballots fur the r-leetion-Ceinmittees; the Speaker bet .g di 'retied to make out a list of t lure Members whordid not attend to.clay to be laid before the +home on . Monday, and it bent: ordered that those who should Hut make ,atflicient ext fir ' se fee absence should be taken lute the custody of the Serjant at . A nn 31. Mr. H'. Davis presented a Petition • from the Traders of ' Bristol ogaiutt the' Ilisolvest Debtors' Act; ukich, .wa s . .. ... ordered to lie on the table. ' • GRAND JURY PRESENT:MEV-TS. Mr. Dawsos brought forward his motion for a COMininte to take into consideration the Irish Grand:l2'y Tresentrhent Act of last Session ; his object being to atnead, not to reocoil j the law. Sir J. Newport trusted that the inequality of surveys would be taken into consideration. . . . Mr li. PARNELL widied that all applications for money should 1 ,- CCiVe the previous satiate lof magistrates before being presented ' to the Grand Juries. Sir G. Hitt approved of the proposal for a Committee • but if he were placed on it he should not be bound by what had been jrtst suggested. He gave notice , that on Monday i re should apply foe leave to bring in a Bill to empower the Grand Juries at the Spring Assizes to dispose of applications for grants regarding works now in progress. MT. V. FETZGERALD said. Sir G. HilFseppenition was not fair. because as vet the Bill was mooed—it had not becnin full operator, , The lion. Baena had heretofore spoken of the dartasetivestotaof the roads—but he knew threw:nary of what he stated to be the fa; r. The principle of the Art had Ircn approved, and us effects had been beneficial. It had produced the lowering of wa,ges for public work 4 . and generally more satisfaction among the working classes. He •. should go into the Committee determined to sue port dit principle of -.- Ole Bill .t. if he failed he should retire from it with newt He hat been charged with throwing implications on classes of indi=l: he did not complain of thomagiaracy altogether, but lie - that there were magistrates in the Coined:ohm who ought not to her there. Ile wetted tobnomve the state of the Bench. He implonat ' the Hemet not 'o abandon the.:Act till it had been fairly tried ; above• oil, not to think of return:woo ths,old state of the law. Mr. AREA viro.stallt eTinT.Tel himself favourable to the principle . cf . the Act; a id suggested an amendment of the motion. that the Committee should be on the Act " with the view to a n:: re effectual execution of the same." Sir 6. Itill , aplaihed, observing that he did not , I di to revive tl e Ad law; and that he was !tot responsible for the Asa of Lst beasts It. Sir J. N i:11e()Er itastial that die thought Ofrt.pading the A7t. would never be' entertained ; but that the Committee ssoold he gins into with the view of realty amending the Act. He was smprisei that none of his Miajcsty's' Ministers had favoured the Battle oitit the opinion of Government on this sub ject. . . A 'Member deprecated the Motif returnisq,to the old law. Mr. Dawsox replied : oh , erving that he .ues'red the strictest en quiry, and he adoptal the suggrotod amendment of Mr. Abet , ermintoa Motion agreed to. Mr. C. Ft rzourtatas disclaimed having ever throats any imps:. s tations en the • iii 'dent gentl y- of Ireland ; and also that he had en ' counoted large c palmtops. Belied ever a ttid. that any remedial • . measure would attended. with great kilfetiltr Sunie.had said. that it win not t 'ought that niarievochs:mudtheamcwithin the A:t; bnt wa. the House to extant! isidWgence for lenoranee or inattention:— for i ... , ti r i a t t. '..n: t t ; i i t r u ti ‘ nt_ t li ,i ng ie t ,, l\e t 2tif , t ,. . , f.,.. a Bill up carry 11Vo efreet .lortain Convention. regarding 11111(1s:ins of Bajtkakilitibji.e:s a• n the (; .ve n . i meat of France ; and Nfi. Smith* fOr a .I.'(,)ry cif Apo.intment: of Commissioners under ' t he •Trialies,eittotah•ges sal rellnint', for itio Abolition of the Slave Smile.. .aid , ;f ant , instiacticus,aiveia to such c oalo a b eamets, being disposed of, the House atljourbr.d ~in 3iontlay , • •