The Statesman. — London, England, 1814-11-24 00:00:00

I .1 1 t o his Royal Highness. The °facers replied that they would not disobey the Prince Regent's coin-r• minds, but requested Colonel Palmer to go with the. letter, and learn expressly from the Regent whether, leis Royal Highness had in truth authorised Colonel. Quentin to demand it. Colonel Palmer went in sequence, and told his Royal Highness the exact eircumstanoni ender which the Officers had been in duced to give it _op, and added, that if his Royal Hi g hness demanded the letter it was at his service.—. nis Royal Highness denied over and over again has; log authorised Colonel Quentin to demand the letter,' tint would Colonel Palmer have parted with it if the Prince Regent had net asked for it; and it was not to be supposed that he (Colonel Palmer) could make a condition with his Royal Highness in presenting it to him, though he should have done so, if he could have entertained the slightest idea that it was to be used to the prejudice of the Officers. This letter was certainly read in the presence of Colonel Quen da, but not the letter signed by Colonel Robarts, as stated in The Courier, for it was not even written at the time, and that was in answer to the Regent's commands to bring forward charges ; neither were the whole sent to the Commander in Chief by the Regent, as he understood Colonel Roberts after wards saw the first letter in the possession of Colonel Quentin, and felt inclined to throw it in the fire, considering the means by which it had been obtain ed. That, with respect to the Regent's not having interfered, in any shape in making him (Colonel P.) the Prosecutor, the Honourable Member stated,. that if he was not absolutely demanded, that the Re gent had expressed his sentiments and wishes in a nay that was tentainnunt to a command. He bad waited on his Royal Highness expressly to say, that he would not undertake the prosecution / though com manded by the Duke of York, as he did not conceive his Royal highness could insist on it, as he (Colonel Palmer) hating been in no way implicated in the bu- • sine's; but that the Regent, in a conversation of nearly two hours, pressed him to it in a way that he could not refuse, by saying, that his declining it would be considered as a desertion of their cause by his brother Officers, and in consenting to under take it Colonel Palmer told his Royal Highness that he should consider it his duty to exert himself to the utmost to hying home the charges against Colonel Quentin. entrusted to him by the Officers ; the ne cessity of which the Regent admitted. Col. Palmer concluded with regretting that his Right Hon. Friend did not approve of postponing the motion en the sub ject till after the rncess •, but conceived that the ob ject he had in view would be best obtained by the de lay, as it would give him time to circulate the papers and to enable him to lay the case fully and fairly be fore the pu'ulie, whom he trusted he should satisfy, that his brother officers had been most harshly and unjustly dealt by. Mr. i lERNEY.—It is unnecessary to confirm the statement of the lion. Officer, and I hope the House is now satisfied that I was warranted in making the assertions of a former night.—Ulear, hear I—The Hon. Colonel was not desired by the 1 Officers to deliver the letter to the Prince, on the • eon. rary it was strongly resisted by them. So that I the statement in the paper is a direct falsehood. It 1 now appears distinctly that Colonel Palmer was not , desired to deliver the letter to the Prince Regent, but that it was obtained by his Royal Highness solely by the influence of his high station—by his command that the letter sle , uld be delivered up—[hear, hear, hear !] Mr. M. SUTTON said, that he could, of course, know nothing of the letters in question until they officially came before him on the Court-Martial. — Ile dill not even know of their existence. On the trial the letters were put in, and were authentiCated by Col. Palmer, who accompanied Ids evidence with a statement that he should feel it necessary to apprise the Court of the circumstances belonging to these letters, es to the mode in which they came into the possession of Col. Quentin. As far as he could re• collect, his evidence then was perfectly coincident pith the statement made by the Hon. Colonel now., —it was not the same in words, but in substance. The letters therefore being produced with this expla nation, the Court, in forming its decision, woc fully possessed of all the facts that had just now been detailed. Before the letters came into the hands of the Adjutant-General, he (Mr. M. Sutton) of course knew nothing of the transactions relating to' them. He regretted that the statement made by him on a former night had not been satisfactory to the Hon. Colonel ; it was not from a wish to pass over any part of the accusation of the lion. Col. without MAY. The SPEAKER. enquired whether any motion was to be proposed ? Mr. TIERNEY was not aware that any was ne cessary : had the 'moment, of which he had com plained, come enly from the other side of the House, ha shoeld 'not have' thought it necessary to make any remarks. upon it ; bat purporting to be given from such high authority, it required some reply. — That reply, he believed, was satisfactory.—[Hear, hear, hear !] The subject was then dropped. • COURTS OF JUSTICE. Sir J. NEWPORT wished the Resolution of the House of the 25th of June, by which it was ordered . that an humble Address be presented to the Prince Regent, that he would be graciously pleased to ap ppint a Commission under the Great Seal, similar to She farmer Commissions on the same subject, to en quire into the salaries, duties, and emoluments of the eeverd Clerks and Officers of Justice in the United Kingdom, in such manner that the proceedings of the Commission be laid before Parliament early in the (then) next Session. This Resolution having been read, together with the Answer of the Prince Regent of the 11th of July, stating that the wishes of the House should be complied with, Sir JOHN NEWPORT then said, that having enderstood from the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite (Mr. B. Bathurst). that no Commission had been appointed, and bearing in mind the fate of a similar Address in 1799, in consequence of which $0 eff-ctual steps bad in fact been taken, he had given notice of the motion, which he should then bring forwird. The Ministers ad the Crown had had four or fire months to have appointed the Commission, and ) et no Commission was said to have been formed. A sufficient reason for a most minute iorestigatios THE STATESMAN. , into the fees taken in the Cowls of Justiee l wat ton. was no nec s e st y . f or the epplieatidu of 'the Roc tot &Wink Irelind; and 4 le• Anti *hal" tained in this extraordinary fact,. that theepeetidage Baronet. j eha t rec hi ter e . tid 4 . eal k irtioni he has persuaded talk tid actually taken on ,meate, paid into Court, Was Sir S. ROMILLT and thirSOLICITOIIeCIE: p a r o es u e s n e t o o t ne 'shilling, whi le Ity a Resolution of the , NERAL explained. _•• " Mr. any 1114 Lords, of 1732, t was fixed it sixpence, Mr. ABERCROMBIE expressed surprise at ser tiog or insinuating th at Ireland did not; ante tbd Such crying endrmity was a sufficient grouhtl,• even' the so reness . &need by the Leers ed Gentleman on Union, possess as Much eight to the coeSidentioti if it had been a solitary one, for the Address which the other side, •and by so many of his Friends, upon tlset liouswas "by other pert of the empire. Itsci been voted. B u t it ma tt ere d no t w h at were th e the subject of theßesolotion which gave rise to the PONSONHT observed that he bed before kte grounds fortha Address, It had been voted by the debate. There was so much queering whit the Right Roviodrable Gentlesnat had House—graciously answered by the Crown yet the against this Resolution, ep go leave nodOubt with rtl,,wsl4 het he now nedirstoed what he realist to gay. Ministers were determinid that the intentions of the s e ct to the feeling which this ResOlution ezeitede! -After a reply from Sir J. NEWPORT / the Ade House should not be ftil rtia.. It was said that no Itßu the trusted the House would' slitt persevere id. dress was voted. Commission was made out, bat the names of some of i imaiotaining its Resolution, and that the hostility The Right Honourable Baronet thin Said, the persons to be appointed Commissioners were °which it experienced, would rather serve to deter - had to move for a Return of Fees in an O ffi ces MI known. Among them were t wo M e il e n i n Chan- mine that perseverance until - the satire' ry object in Fees of which were Specifically prescribed by A.ctelt eery. These Misters in Chancery were to enquire view should be effectually attald. With a view ' X'arliansent ; and the object of his Motion was to as. into the exactions of Officers ofJustice-e-ieto their own to that attainment , the House had two questions to certain whether any, and how much more then the. exactions. He could very well conceive how the inten- consider on this Occasion : first, whence the delay legal fees, were exacted. 'The office to which ho tions of the House had been frustrated. In the Minority arose in complying with its Resolution ; and second- laded was the Registrar of Deeds in Ireland in sitiiek against the Address the r e w e n t o f th e Ho use th r ee ly, as to the cha r acter of the C o mmission by which it be understood that a considerable augmentaticid d 1 Cabinet Ministers, and among them the Right Hon. was proposed td carry that Resolution into effect: fees had taken place, especially within the last unfit Gentleman opposite him (Mr. B. Bathurst), the one As to the first,delay it appeared that the complained our three months. According to his infornvietien s etc most immediately connected by af fi nity to the head of , which delay was, in fact, a direct violation. of ' *deed , he might say that it was within his knot/:, of the department to which the execution of the Re- the Resolution of the House, was attempted to 'be Is*, that the fees of this office, which six Month* solution of the House belorged. The fate of the justified solely upon the assertion of the Learned ago were three or four-fold beyond what was allowed. Address of 1799, and the present delay would, be Gentlemen en the other side, that the Resolution it. .by the Act referred to, had within the last two pt trusted, persuade the House of the necessity of ex. self was idle and futile. Thus ceremoniously was three months been doubled under a gentlemen who orcising their right, and of skewing that there was the judgment of the House treated by those Gentle.: L bed succeeded by reversion to the office of Region: no power in the country that could endeavour with men who deprecated a Resolution,,the plain weaning The Hon. Baronet concluded with moving for a re = success, to - frustrate a public enquiry. His intention of which was, that a Commission should . be R. !turn of the Feesvecelved either by the Register or was to follow up his present motion, by moving that pointed to report the result of its enquiry on the ; his Deputy in thsi offideitllnclasi ft for the fait betel there be entered on the same Journals which con. abuses alluded to at an early part of the present See. ,yda' rs, distinguishing each yea. tained the answer to the Address, which stated that ' 'ion. Bat according to the Learned Gent. (the Soli. Ordered accordihgly.• ' •-. 7 . • 0. , the wishes of the House` should be complied with dtor-General), the Commission, if it were even tip. , The Right Honourable Beswiest further Mottettfoi a resolution that the • Prince Regent's Ministers had' pointed, was not likely to have any thing worth pp. 'a Return of the Writeof Letiletneued by tleseithwei frustrated his gracious intentions, with such further porting at an early period of the Session. Oat p l . ,Courts In Ireland. f o r tiros* Wren years , ewe,. censure as should appear expedient. He concluded so,it was not expected that the Commission sho' uld clepe sa l liking each year, and abet the Writs far abort* by moving, That an bumble Address be presented its enquiries with the Grit Report, but that it 'should Pl. from those under that . snm. The Ilonisorable to the Prince Regent, praying that a Copy of the report from time to time such facts as it discovered,' :Baronet dwelt upon the-oppreisio& to which indivi.. Commission appointed in consequence of the answer and continue to prosecute its labours until the fullest 'duals, especially of the poorer order, were subject of his Royal Highness, of the llth of July last, to the information was attained, when it should submit its through the operation of these writs, and he express. Address of the House of .the 28th of June, and a final Report for the consideration of the House. —. ed a hope, that when die facts were befOre the House Summary of all Proceedings under that Commission, Into the defence of the Resolution he did not think it would see the necessity of adopting some remedy be laid before the House. it at all necessary to enter, notwithstanding the at- for an abuse very generally complained of in Ireland.- Mr. BATHURST stated that a Commission had tacks made upon it, for that Residution was sane. The motion was agreed to. not been issued, but that it was not therefore to be tioned by the judgment, and it was indisputable that Mr. WHITBREAD brought in a. Bill for extende presumed that the Government bad intended to frus. his Right Hon. Friend in proposing it acted upon log the provisions of the Acts of the 33d and • Seek trate the !!wishes of the House, or to protect the respectable precedents. Then as to the second ques. ,of the King, with , respect to Weights, to tbetweldlie Officers' of Courts in exactions upon the suitors.— tion, he wai l he must confess, quite astonished at don of Measures also. . . Great difficulties had occurred in fulfilling the wishes the assertion, that any difficulty could occur in find. Read a first end ordered to be read a seessed4lemt of the Address, for from the vague and general terms log persons duly competent to discharge the duties of to-morrow, and to be printed. of the Resolution it was impossible to say to what the Commission. He could not conceive it possible The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, officers the enquiry should apply, and whether it that any serious difficulty could exist upon this point i presented a Message from the Regent, recommettd. should not extend even to constables, for the words either in England, Ireland, or Scotland. Ministers log, that in consideration of the ability, integrity, were, " all officers of justice ;" and whether there could, he was persuaded, find five persons duly and indefatigable industry, manifested by Lord Wal. should he one Commission, or one for each kingdom, qualified for this Commission in England, without siogham, as Chairman of the Committees of the which latter course the Government had thought including any of the Masters in Chancery, whose House of Lords, lad the inability of that Noble would be most proper. It was said that it was to appointment was, in his opinion', very justly object- Lord, from age and indisposition, any longer to per. be similar to the Commissions issued in former times, erlt to. Bat this appointment it was attempted to ' form the duties of that office, the House should grant which were in themselves all similar, which obliged .; j ustify upon the ground of precedent, namely, be. him an annuity of 20001. the persons employed to refer to all the Commissions cause a Judge had once been a member of a similar This Message was referred to the consideration of in question, to see in vre.ich points they agreed.— Commission. This Judge, however, as it was stated, a Committee of the whole House to-morrow. There was also a difficulty in the choice of the Com. did not attend the Commission, and for_what purpose The Irish Timber. Bill was read a second time and missioners : they should be persons that had some then was he appointed ? Surely not merely with a committed for to-morrow. knowledge of the law, and yet neither practising - - view to ornament: But even were this Judge a Upon the motion of Mr. FITZGERALD, that Barristers nor Judges could be appointed, and ac- working Commissioner, he should have objected to 'the Resolution'of the House of Saturday las t, w i th cording to the lion. Baronet, the choice of his Ma , . his appointment to an ffice intended to enquire into, regard to the Customs in Ireland, .should be entered jesty's Ministers should have been still further ' not abuses attributed to any. of the Judges, but al, as read, rowed by excluding the Masters in Chancery leged to have been committed by the Officers of the Sir J. NEWPORT rose, and argued against the But what objection could there be to the ap.. Courts. Therefore, in objecting to such an appoint . Tax - upon Tim ber in Irelan d, which he conceived pe. pointment of Masters in Chancery ? meat; he should have conceived that he was standing culiarly injurious to the Irish peasantry, because it evictions had they been charged with ?- -Not- between the Judge and an invidious situation. Upon enhanced an article essentially necessary 'to enable withstanding the obstacles which had occurred, the the same ground, then, he now disapproved of the them to erect more comfortable cottages. That the Commission for England had 'been drawn up, and ; appointment of the Masters in Chancery upon the peasantry of that c o un tr y were most miserabl y lod g ed would have been issued immediately, but that one of ' existing Commission, although he had the highest was universally complained of, not only by these re. the persons named to act under it had, so late as yes. ! possible respect for these Masters : for one of them sident in the country, but by all writers respecting day, declined the office. The Commissions for the •in particular he felt the utmost regard, and for that I it. This complaint, however, was not likely to be two other parts of the United Kingdom would follow regard he wished that that inestimable individual had removed or re duced, if this'll': were gontinued. le the other as soon as the persons who had been ep. ' declined to, accept the appointment. He did not, another important view this tax was objectionable s• plied to had returned answers whether they would , therefore, object to these appointments from any the it was known that the provision trade .was most ma. act under these Commissions. He had no objection ' slightest suspicion that these respectable Officers terial to Ireland, and this tax had served to raise the to the motion. I would decline to do their duty ; but as a great part price of staves from 7d. to 25d. since the last Sea- Sir S. ROMILLY thought the House would not 'of the abuse complained of, as to the exaction of sion. But the grievance 'resulting to the peasantry be satisfied with the statement of the Right Hon. ' fees, was alleged to have taken place in the office of was particularly to be deprecated—for the tax raised Gentleman (Mr. Bathurst). —His Majesty's Ministers • the Masters in Chancery, he could not think it pro- I the price of timber so high, that it was quite beyond' would not have acted as they had done, if they had per that any of these Officers should be included in the means of the peasantry to roof their houses for Wished to pay respect to the House of Commons.— I the Commission. These Officers would, indeed, in slating, and it was notorious that whole districts had The intention' of the House clearly was, that a Com- this Commission, be liable to appear as witnesses and been driven into insurrection, by the threat of barn. mitres should be appointed without delay ; and the judges, for these Commissioners themselves might, I ing their thatched cabins, because that threat, from reason why the clause in the Resolution, pressing for as well as the other Masters, be subjected to an exa- the nature of straw, could be so easily executed. a speedy compliance with the wishes of the House, mination before the Commission. •It could not, then Mr. \V. FITZGERALD said that he certainly had been inserted, was, the culpable contempt which ;of course, be pleasant for these Officers to be placed was not anxious to'lay greater burdens upon Ireland the Address of 1799 had experienced on the part of in such a situation ; it could not be agreeable to than the country could bear. He wished, not only the Advisers of the Crown. It had been said, that their own feelings, or advantageous in a public point to assimilate the revenues of the two countries, as there had been difficulties in drawing Up the Com- of view. The Learned Gentleman concluded with re- to the amount of duty, but also as to the mode of mission, and in the choice of persons to act under peating that he meant nothing in any degree invi- collecting them. There was, however, a great mis it. As to the Commission, the simple course was dittos with regard to the Officers to whom he refer. understanding, if not misrepresentation, gone forth to have framed it in the words of the Resolution ; red, whose character he felt to be quite above the with respect to those duties. Five years antecedent nor would there have been any difficulty b ut with ,reach of an y re p roach. to their operation, the price of timber, owing to the persons disposed to start objections, and show them- I Mr. H. ADDINGTON observed, that to form a situation in which the Northern Powers of Europe selves wiser than the House of Commons. As to I com p etent COmmission for the purpose under con- I were placed, had been greater than it was now, with the persons, he did not see why practising Barristers sideration, a combination of qualifications was neces- the whole addition of the duties imposed. As to should not be appointed, as they were the most. dis- teary, and that therefore it was difficult to find per- what hid fallen from the Right Hanourable . Barettet, interested and most competent persons that could be ; sons duly qualified; but in point of fact such a diffi- with respect to the delay that ought to take place in heed on. lie did not doubt the honour or the reel catty had occurred as his Right Hoe. Relation had all measures affecting the interests of Ireland and spectability of the, persons appointed to act under ! stated. . With respect to the Address to the Crown, lcatland, though he might be disposed to admit the the Commission, but the Public would expect to see , which had been alluded to bythe Right Hon. Mover, propriety of such delay in some instances, yet as to persons perfectly disinterested ; and, indeed, it was 'to w hich be "(Sir J. New p ort) complained that no the general principle he could not hut observe that a most invidious situation for judicial persons to IA answer was returned, he (Mr. A:) conceived , that !he believed it was entirely new to Parliament. It placed in. The motion for an Address was carried ,es there was no answer to return, the most respect. ! was supposed that every Member discharged iris duty by the vote of a Master in Chancery, who voted, for ful mode towards the House was to return none.— Iby attending there, and that House was considered it, because his own office was to be enqui red into ; [ d lau g h, and hear, hear! from Sir J. Newport.] as representing the whole country : and it would he and n ow a Master in Chancery was to be made a'. Mr. PONSONBY, after observing that Ireland a serious impediment to public business if they were Member of the Commission employed to enquire. He was, notwithstanding the r emark of the Right Hon. Ito wait till communications were regularly made with h o ped, if further delay took place, or if the COM- Gentleman (Mr. Bathurst), entitled to the same con- ! their constituents. The evils of such a system would mission' was not properly acted on, the House would j sideration from the Legislature as Great Britain , ex- ' be still more 0'..e:0-s in those cases, where the ob. t a ke the matter into its own ha uls, and appoint a pressed his astonishment that the Commission alluded ject was imposin,, -'uties of customs, as it woola to bad not been sooner appoleted in compliance • I necessarily a" fie: , *ties to the most injurious spa.. Committee on the subject. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said, that by the with the Address of that House. But it appeared, culations ter., rieloatll gals who were likely toles . Commission of 1732, the Lord Chancellor and that the appointment of Ws Commission was not Very ; erected by the • •roplisev,Tdties. With regard tett* Judges were named as Commissioner's, with power agreeable to the feeliiireof some Gentlemen, Wire- present measure, it w, se enly a mitigation of do. t o a ppoint Sub.commissioners, who were selected fore no means were left untried to prejudice the be. , des already imposed, h, thought it desirable that it among the Officers of the Court. This was sine case, solution, and thwart the view of the House. With should become a law as sioa possible. though the Commission had been prayed for on the respect to Ireland, he could state, that the House had -Mr. PONSONBY %ern, id opinion, that it would ground of abuses said to exist under the eyes of the perhaps scarcely ever pasted a Resolution which gave " be highly objectionable to pass the Bill, till the House Judges, which was not now ventured to be asserted. mere patiefectiee to the entightetted part of the Irish had an opportunity of knowing the senti m e n ts of He saw no reason why Masters in Chancer y should pofilk. There were no doubt in that country some those persons concerned in.the trade. There was no not net on the Commission. It was said, that fees piltiaaa, toyb.tto means Inconsiderable, wino strongly couhtry in Europe in which& tax opon timber would wer e t a ken in the Masters' Office, bat it was not objected this Resolution, but the cause of their ob. be attended with n many bad effects as Ireland. said that they were taken with the sanction of the jectso• n.furnished an iminglent in favour of. the men- and he shoal be glad If the same sum as was ex. M as ters. No person who would not act honour- sure. Bat ae to the dificulty of finding Commis- ;meted to become/I from the measurecould bessised ably in the Commission of Enquiry, was certainlx, sinn ers , so mach dwelt upon by the Gentlemen in an y otbir trey. • There was literally no timber in moat unfit to fill any judici al s ituation. lie, ems- .on. the other Side, lie -hid no doubt that his the country for US own •consumption. He elanuld tended that the Government could have no . wisliqa Evvo ia It Hen. friend (Sir J. Newport) could . easily not, however, :Peen hard 'upon the Right lion. frustrate th e i nten ti o ns o f the H ou se ) and that there b* furuishing a set of naves Gent., as be knew how difficult it was to tax Ireland. -.,. AL_ --T -r' 4P - II j 1