The Statesman. — London, England, 1820-06-20 00:00:00

o• nor:unsity of 2iving• n •tre iif intentio: , t the next Session of Porli:uneut. tisT ;NINA that teeing the Noble Lord in his place (Lord pinn i n g), he supposed he had no intention to press the second reading of the East India Volunteers Bill, sit had neither been printed nor men the order w.;fej for i ts p r inting-, thou.;ll the second reading gwal fur that day. Lord BIN NINO said it was nut his intention to wove t h e st i c ,oul reading then : and he should at the same time move for the discharge of the present Order, and die printing of the Bill. Ile should then tix the se. rend reading for 'f hursday next. • Ur. Caxt.vev tl !lit Thursday too early a dor. 'he* the order for the printing of such a Bill was nut even made. Lord BINNING did not wish to press one doe more than another ; but as the Bill Ilas A very short one, it vita be in the hands of :Members before that day. Sh uld it not, he could hare no objection to postpone the woad reading to a feline Lord FULIII , TON G observed, the when the state of business in that Bosse was considered, it nould be better at once to tit a future day fur disenssion. Sir B:INSIT Wit.sais and Lord Nut:rst.r concurred in the woe wish, as the discussion on that liwAStlfe la volved 3 great constitutional principle. The sero*d reading was at length, on the motion of Lord BINNISIG, fixed for that day week. On the motion of the Cu owl:Limit of the Excite- Qrs , l th e Refined Snears Repeal Bill, and the Licensed Irish Breners' Allowan. e Bill were read a Ent time. HER MAJESTY TIE QUEEN. Lord Casrutnitann apptur,..l at the B:tr trith a buntik of papers in his hawk. Having, by the de- sire of the Chair, brought them up to tile table, their titles wrr: reed by the Clerk [ride' Lords.) • Lund CASTIAIIVAIIII then rose and said---I think it my daty to acquaint the House, on the part of his Ma jesty's Ministers, that in compliance with its general wish, miry endeavour has been made by them to re lieve Parliament from the painful necessity of enter ing into the present delicate inquiry, and that his Ma jesty has been pleased to authorise that the communi cations which have taken place towards that end should t'e laid before the Httute. It it with great pain I have to state to the House that this negotiation has sat led to any satisfactory arrangement. Feeling time great importance of this question to the Illustrious Personages themselves, and to the nation at large, 1 ED t►ink it would be most improper to proceed further In the consideration of this subject, without laying be fore this House, in the most anthentic manner, the efforts th:t have been made to release PArliament from the painful necessity of such an investigation, together with the grounds that have prevented their success. The papers are now in a state read• to be printed, and will be delivered by to-morrow to the Members of this House ; I feel it therefore m♦ duty to move, that the present Order be discharged, sad to postpone to Wednesday next the further consideration of his Ma jesty's most gracious Message, in order that this House might be enabled, under all the difficulties of RN case, to proceed to its dikensilion with the fullest intonation as to every thing that has occurred. MT. rise to express my perfect con currence in the view which the Nohle Lord has taken of the unfortunate failure of this negotiation. He can sot feel greater pain than 1 do at the ut,fortunate re sult of the attempt to adjust the existing differences between the Illustrious Personages. To that illus trious ,Personage, to advise whom it is toy duty, I think ant a shadow of blame can attach ; but, in stating this, 1 do not ask this House, nor do I loran lo imply that blame for such a result is to be attrihnted to the other Illustrious Party. It is possible, and barely possible, that amidst all the other peculiarities that attend this extraordinary case, the House would timl that blame, as arising out of the failure of this nego tiation, attaches in nu quarter. Lord CASTLEIZAGN staled, that the papers would be delivered to the Members to-morrow. The Order was then discharged, and the discussion on the Royal Message fixed for Wednesday next. CRISILVAL LAW.—Mir J. Mscumrosn postponed to a future ..lay the second reading of the Rills in ame liorate/I of the Criminal Law, which stood for Wednes dasys lOC that day se'unight. CO3IMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS.—The Norse resolved itself into a Committee of Ways and Means. Thr l'ltAircEt.i.oa of the Exctergura ro‘e to call the attention of the Committee to the financial arrange- meets of the year. The Right Hun. Gentleman in vain endeavoured to be heard, in consequence of the agita tion that prevailed in the House and below the Bar, most the moment the resell of the negotiation as to thr Royal differences was communicated to the House. The noise and confnsion appearing to increase *rather than to diminish, Mr. tinnterant, ruse to order. In the disordered state of the House be world really recommend his Right Hun. Friend to defer the financial statement on hich he was shoat to enter. Lord CA.TIAIIiAI3II seconded the recommendation. The CHANCELLOR of the Excncuvra acquiesced ; and on his motion thellhairman, who had strenuously everted hientsif, tit in vain, to procure silence, and expressed Ms hope that the House would acquit hitt, of any neglect of duty on the occasion, was in structed to report progress, and ask /race to sit again. The House having resuused, the Ghsirman accord ingly obtained leave to sit again that day. A Cosnwittes was selected from the ballot to try the merits of the petition o■ the Election for Berwick- u pen -T weed. THE BVDGIT.—On the motion of the CHANVIL. Loft of the EICESQUEII, the House again resolved it .elf into the Committee of Ways. and Mmes. me t. HANCILLOR of the Bxcenounit prontied to ‘Tate the Budget of the year. Although the extreme ..onfasion by which the Hight Hon. lientleasan had I .trfore been inserrapted was somewhat abated. consi derable noise still prevailed. We beer frequently fit the inconvenience that restilts from the feeble ridge Of the Right Hon. Oentleman, which wielt teaches the gallery, even when complete silence Is ob 4erveiCla the House. On the present occasion, sot nitbateuding the most painful attention, we calla only awe and then hear a member of a sentence; and If.' utterly unable to give any more •lian a fe w s;ti.mnitected ferments of the Right Ilsrsourable fietttletnau's speret:. He began by reca ptulating the Supply, and the Ways and Means of last year, and comparing thou with those of the present. The sum voted fsr the army last year was se,tion,iooll/.; fsr the present year 9,400,000/., being an increase, which was called fur by the agitation and discontent that pervaded the country. The sum voted for the naval service last year was 5.400,0011/.; for the present year 8,553,000/.4 being also u trilling in crease. The teriluanee in the two years was nearly the same, although in the last year there is as an apparent adv swage, in consequence of a considerable suns hav ing fern derived fr the sale of old stores. The Miscellaneous Estimates of the last year amounted to . 2,074,01)11/.; those of the present year to 2,500,000/. The interest of the Unfunded Debt was, last year, 1,920,0111!/.: this year, owing to the reduction which had taken place in that debt, it was only 1,410,000/. The total amount of the sums voted for the public service in the last year was 20,45c. 1 .,t155/. ; in the present year, 1 211,722,0011/. ; being an increase iu the present year of about 211%000/. In the last year, comprehending the SIM. voted fur the reelucti of the I•nfitusled Debt s the grants fir the re-payutent of a portion of the debt to the Batik, in order to prepare. for the resumption of I c ash pAymeuts, te.e., the total amoun ted to nearly thirty-one nillions. The reduction which hail taken place, or was to take place, in the Unfunded Debt,! was, on the whole, nine millions. The total of the provision fur the public expenditure for the present year was 29,723,000/., of which, as he hail before said, 23,722, 1 e09/. was fur the public service, and the reutainder fur the reduction of the Unfuettleel Debt. The Right Hun. Gentleman preweedel to enumerate the Ways and Means of supplying this expenditure. The Malt and Pensions I.:aty 3.1100,410 UL The new • Excise Duties 2,300,111111/. Last Session he had chargeil three mill* on these duties. It appeared, however,', on time :oh of April last, when the annual are till were made up, that a considerable portion of those duties were still unreceised. Ile proposed, in the present year, to charge 2.500.11011/. on those duties. The decrease which appeared tinder the head of Ex- cise was attributable to the consulislat . of the Excise Unties. and not to any actual diminution of their amine it. On the eontrary, it appeared that they were *barged on a is larger quantity of articles of MU gumption than the average annual amount. There re mained two other items—the Lottery, 240,000/., and old Naval Stores, 270,1100/. ; making the total amount of the ready-money revenue of the country about 1i,0110,11011/. To make up the slim necessary, he took the loran of 5,000,000/., and of Exchequer Bills, 7,000,000/., and a loan Irons the Sinking Fund of 12,000.00 W.: making, with the ...may-money revenue, the sum of 311.009,01 M/. With rrs;.ret to the terms of the loan to be obtained from the Sinking Fund, he meant to follow the precedent c 1 last year, as be con sidered it fair that the Con tttt issio-wrs for the reduc tion of the National Debt should advance it on the same terms ai those un which the luau bail been ad vanced by the contractors. The amount of the Sink ing.fund ow thy .nth July was seventeen millions. Taking the twelve millions of loan there were Bell millions left in the hands of the Connissioners. I'n-! der the present circumstances of lrimiaini it would nut be justifiable to make any demand t on her capitaL Although the clear Sinking Filed bail not arrived in the present year at the anticipated -estimate of five millions, he calculated that it *ould reach to about 3,401.1,000/. He trusted that there would be nu oc casion for a loan next year : and he expressed his conviction that a Sinking Fund of between three and four millions would he productive of a very advantageous effect on thensoury market. The Right Honourable Gentleman proceeded to describe the operation of the new taxes. He adverted to the re commendation from the other side of the House of re trenchment in the management of ou.• financial con cerns, by what they considered the simple operation of abolishing that part of the Sinking Fund which I was now advanced by way of loan, instead of adhering to the present practice, and detuileit the reasons that induced him to be of a different opinion : and con cluded by moving his first resolution, namely, " That it is the opinion of this Committee, that towards rais ing the supply to be rattles! to his Majesty the sum of 12,11110,0 MP/. be raised by way of annuities." Sir. Basimo remarked on some of the statements of `the night lion. Gentleman, and observed that be had ) made no communication to the Committee as to the real %tate of oar finances. Mr. Hilts inspired whether the French eontribn— tion of two millions was fortheonaing"! The CHANUELLOR of the EIMIEQUER replied to the observations of the Hon. klember for 'fannies, and observed that the lion. 31einher fur Aberdeen had i taken the two millions of francs, which was the French isentributlea, ar pseuds. Mr. ties:erns,. said, that his Night Now Friend had not said ■ syllable of the soarer whence the charge on the 24 millions was to none. I The. Cxxste.susaa tof the EXCIIIIEQUIIR said helae obliged,* the' Hon. Mealier for loosing ressimied bin of a very important part of his statement, which he bid midribs' rtsewtciously. It was his inetatista to propose a molted,* to cancel Steeks in the isekshi of the Comettiesioaers, for the reciaetiess of , the'delst. to the amount of die Lush. The prinripk'ipus *kith he meant to proceed was this—ln 1813, an Ado( Par liassient passed, whisk provided tLut a. ants of 104 J usilliessevf stock was to remain in tho bands of the Catildesioners, as a provitien for any hulas *bleb thee. ) bridals; ant of a war might milie u necessary._ Ap reseal tbe amount of Steaks is the hass4o4l the Cod usiseieusesurse 14001180,11410/. He prwpilisbasitioadil all die etillio over rite amount which tl4 *EV fit liament respdeod, which remain in tbeirlsands. .t thee by eisarltiog the amount of the Lome wpm cancolhid Stocks, the *Mount of Storks that would to main lis die possession of the Commissioners in 13211 t, was 1111.000,01101. DI r. essurssi dissented from his. Right Hebourable as to the practirability of this rereediag. 21 114 referunce tu the Cormendated Pus& be repraled Mist be bad said as a ressistoceasion, that it • u n seemly es 4 edismoblos to allow of a cos, k. cy in this/ had of - beiskien seven aid °. 's & and It atresglf fargell,tike alputliency eitbs by a kap, by ebelegee et Sarbeleite Dills, why war wail a THE STATESMAN. sober mode, to put the matter straight. Oovernment were placed by the present state of the Consolidated Fund in this situation—that they could nut pay any quarter's dividend to jlie public . creditor, bat at the will mind pleasure of the Bank of England. The Right Hon. Gentleman must altogether depend not only on the ability of the Bank to assist him, but on their will and pleasure to do so. Was it fitting that Government should thus be in the power of a corporation with re ference to the ilie.llls of paving the divideud to the public creditor ? Was it possible that in that state of things the Chancellor of the Exchequer could feel him self in that independent condition which could alone enable him to make the best bargain for the public ? As to the loan of twelve millions from the Sinking Fund, his Right lion. Friend had by no means con vinced him of the propriety of continuing the present system. His Right Hun. Friend knew that the whole was a fictitious proceeding, that neither did Govern ment get the advance, nor did the Commissioners ex tinguish the debt, but that the whole traLsaction ceased as soon as it existed. With respect to the five millicns of Sinking Fund yet applied, he could not conceive it possible that the public credit would be much sustained by such an application, when, with the other hand so large a suns was borrowed for the public service. Mr. J. SMITH disagreed altogether front the lion. Gensleinatt who haul just spoken, as to the operation of the Sinking Fund: and maintained that it created a market for stock, and thereby prevented its deprecia tion. Adverting to the general question of our finan cial condition, be observed, that although he by no means charged it as matter of blame, yet that in fact almost all the expectations which had been last year , held out by the flight Honourable the Chancellor of tb • Exchequer were disappointed. Our revenue had decreased, and our expellees augmented ; and that five years after the termination of war! lie confessed that he hail long entertained a melancholy foreboding of our actual condition. For the first time he had oh ' served a suspicion and a disregard of the credit of this country. This was a new feature in our situation. In ! the midst of the late long and dangerous war, this coun try had been considered the asylum of property. Fo reigners brought property of every description to Eng laud : but thing: were so much changed, that many Englesh ot is err at the present moment investing a portion of their property in foreign funds, in order to have a sie:t egg. The fart was, that the real state of our finances tvas very little known in that House. This was mainly attributable to the bad mode of keeping the public accounts. In a variety of points, and especially in those parts of them! which related to Exchequer Bills, the accounts might he rendered much more clear and explicit.— He contended, that ever since the close of the war we: bad been going on most improvidently. Ile chargedl the Government with useless extravagance. Ile did this without the least bitterness ; for him thought it was a charge which attached tin every 31ember of the! HUll4e. In time civil department of the ordnance, ofi time navy, of the army, Bcc. money had been expended ; 1 . he would not say uselessly, but without absolute ne eessity. if a private individual became distressed. wises esomme did hr take? He looked into his affairs, he tetteneke4 his supectinities, and perhaps some of his necessaries, and lie took rare not to be guilty of any eepenre fur which there was not an absolute ne cessity. Sach, however, was not the course which Government and the Legislature had pursued. Now. in looking over the accounts of public expenditure, he found many charges under time head of Pensious.— Those items were looked upon as of little importance. but he saw the other day a pension of 5501. a-year grouted, certainly to a very respectable inslivitinal, now Uustrnor of Trinidad, for five years' service, that tieutlenvest also receiving the salary of his present ap pointment. He hoped Government would see that the blame of this and other charges out the public revenue were not to be wholly attributed to themselves. The blame ought to br laid upon Parliament generally. The House had in fart shown the greatest apathy on such occasions. They ought to look with the greatest' jealousy to the expenditure of time country. It was' found that the revolutions which load taken place in all modern States had originated in the confusion of their finances. He apologised fur having trespassed on the attention of the House, but he begged of them to consider what they were about. Unless a different system was adopted, he feared the day was not far dis tant which would bring the deepest and most calanoi . tools distresses on the country:-(Over, hear!) Mr. Ricseuo said, that the last Loan having been contracted for neon terms which would afford no grofit to the subscribers, no blame could he imputed to the Chancellor of the Exchequer un that head. It was, however, a lamentable thing to perceive that, alter ire years of peace, our revenues were annually diusinietsiog, while our expenses were increasing. The Hight Hon. liendeutato had stated what the revenue and expenditnre of the country were last year, but from Alf (Mr. Ricardo's) calculation. there was, in fasts tiolinking Fund whatever left. Notwithstand log ulna had boon said by the Right Huts. tleaVz, be fawn d there was outstanding a sum of 1 . 12 for either as to principal oe Wooed. lie wished to know how, and from what fund this . to 6e paid? The Right lion. Member, wit hunt Rerun , in the this deficiency, went on to state that next ~, doings would be better — that they would then barn 4 Sinking Fund of from 3,090,000/. to 4,1104,41411/.; that this would be the ease. he was very touch inclined 10 doubt. The country would have an opportonity of seeing whether the public debt would be decreased se ,increased by this time twelve months. If deeeemtill, thou we might calculate that something bad betel saved ; if greater, the House must see that the pphlia expenditure had increased. The lion. blember pref. ceeded to state what had been the amount of OW Fended suit Untended Debt last year, and observed,' that. notwithstanding the application et the Slaking: Riad to thausounnt of near 111,004,0001. it turanimpat' that we bad done nothing more than diminish oat tha- . 1 funded Debt by 2,0410,4000/. while we added Want ( Funded Debt the maw ansoont.--(Hear - nature. but that be then about to propose a per manent system : that 111 wished to establish a pe:.:l4 rent Sinking Fund of 5,000,00/. for the support of ptiblit: credit. It was generally admitted that public credit could not stand without a Siv!..:;e . Fund to that amount: but from the papers bef:re the House, it appea:ed that there would he in .'•.l'y a deficiency of 9,500,009/. on the Consolidated Fund. If this systetu were to go on—if a bad harvest were to take placc--if exchanges were to be against us, and that there should be a run on the Bank for gold, 04 man could foretel the extent of distress which would be brought upon the country. The Noble Lord (t;.4s tlereagls) s lid, on a former occasion. that such a tun was absolutely necessary to enable us to encounter an, war in which we might he engaged. He wished then to have the country placed in such a situation that. if attacked, war and bankruptcy should not be found synonymous terms. He thought the only effectual means of doine, this would be by the introduction of a Property Tax, and the doing. away with a portion of the Assessed Taxes. This, he conceived, was the !y remedy left to the country. Persons were in the kibit of insuring their houses and property against ft why not then insure them against alienation and re volutiou ?—(Hear, hear!) The CHANCELLOR of the EICHRQCER said, that should the time come when such a measure ought to be proposed, hr felt convinced that the country wou.d not shrink from it, but he could not admit that tht situation of the country was at'present such as to make the introduction of the Property Tax necessary. He trusted tint the Sinking Fund would this year be available to the amount which he had before stated. Mr. Mesa's° said, that his question as to what fund was to make good the amount and interest of tto. 1,125,000/. Exchequer Bills bad not yet been an swered. The ClfAxerl.l.oll of the Excuroura made sores ol)- servations, but in so low a tone as to be inaudible in the gallery. After a few observations from Mr. Monte Ls. t!.e resolution was put and carried. On the next resolution being pet. Mr. Alderman HEVGATI hoped that, after the pre sent year, they would not raise any more loans fo, any purpose whatever. He agreed with the Ch.v.- celler of the Exchequer, that if the financial state at the country was fairly stated, exertions would be mad , - to enable them to put a stop to the system of borrow ing, and thus to place the credit of the country high in the eyes of foreign nations ; to place it as it was, even in the war, the asylum for the capital of the whole world. The Honourable Member next said. that the diminution in the circulating medium was very considerable. The difference in the issues of tlss Bank of England from May, ISIS, to the May whie:i had just elapsed, amounted to five millions. Tb.• diminution in the circulation of country banks was, for the saute period, four millions, making nine mil lions in the entire, which amounted to one-sixth of the circulating medium, and yet there was not o u r single piece of gold coin brought to replace the Bans; notes which had been thus put out of circulation. More then three-fourths of the distress under wbi.:4 the country laboured, might be imputed to this dimi nution. He thought it was incumbeat on the (loser's nsent to state to what amount it was theielniention to reduce the currency, for it was much better to know the worst than to be kept in a state of uncertainty.— The object of the Bullion Committee was attained. Paper was of more value than gold. They have the,r fore reached that period when any further diminution of the circulation of the country was unnecessary, and when it ceased to be necessary, it became mischievous. Ile embodied these sentiments in certain Resolutions. which he might, on a future occasion, propose to the House. He would only for the present beg to read the last of them. Here the Worthy Aldermau read this Resolution. It stated generally the propriety of adopt ing a vigorous system of finances, which might render unnecessary the system of borrowing, and might tend to diminish the burthens which press upon the country. Mr. Msereta explained. Mr. Ilvsetsaux said, that any opinion he expressed on the :4ubjert of finance, he still maintained. Ile thought it would be very desirable that the Consoli dated Fund, instead of being in arrear, should, ac cording to the good uld custom, afford a surplus fur the service of the year. Sir Joszen YORKE said, his Hon. Friend below hint (Mr. Ilushisson) should never write another book on Finance, and the Worthy Alderman opposite should never rise upon the Ministerial benches to move Fiscal Resolutions.—(A laugh.) After some further observations, the several other resolutions were agreed to, the House resumed, and the report was ordered to be received to-morrow. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.— Mr. &toners brought up the report of the Committee of Supply. • On the resolution for WNW. for the Milibank Penitentiary being read, M. .1. SNIT!, expressed his disapprobation of the institution. He thought that a sum of 500,11001. ex pended in Middlesex far suck a perpose was a great waste of the public money. Lancashire, and various other places, might call for similar establishments they had as good a right to do so' as the county of 'Middlesex. Mr. llot.roao defended the grant. Air. /Ammr spoke agakast the manner in whirls alsolters is that House introdewoul wariest' schemes of supposed improvement, which greatly added to the piddle expense. He celled epos Members to diseou tenattre this practice. MC Mara said, that when he voted on a former oc casion, the estimate did not amount to ore than one half of what the expense turned oat to be: but the .Weak was so far advanced, he thought it &ail-able to have 4t completed. • 'Mr J. YORK' mid a few woe& es the ostpmeselpf the Istablishment; and Mr. Hcit.vonsitsplidned. Aftei a few observations from L. Fund:6l; l th% Patitssio. and Mr. 'Alderman Havaers. who sr many complained if the great earwig elf this,lo4l- agreed te . Artie a few worth& frogs the Coamcat.Lon of the Six- log. the Resolution warn agreed to. . • craws*. Air. iIARTIPI. lir. J. Surfs, lir. Won, mil tin: the Illohointios Sot awns isfitaitfrik Irclr 24 "' Mr. MCMINN . • ~), fitsolail ilizionso alai &Avis of *is lossisatiew.bekkg .. t • Mr. Manama bogged so offer a few olmersosisne 1441. . ~" 1. " " I ' ' ' die Geresitles. Wistanbotakiot Hoe. the ' t ,k . . Le., Juss !SOO rtake*liik lbw u 4 tip !tuner 010. 4.0 %V, r' h' 41.60.464 t. liiii eg= i til r er Y his Class for tie metals( year were st(is, 4,...5, itistimeros s le Ift. 11. • i s j 2 _....