The Statesman. — London, England, 1821-05-25 00:00:00

Ileum himself, or those in his confidence could ob tain. kr all that had been stated in the course Of discussion on the subject, it was impossible tit to oonclude that the fond was granted, and applied for some time to a certain purpose ; but that after that period it had been grossly misappropriated. There at:told be no doubt that the Act of 1663 granted the money foe a certain purpose, and however it might not Lye been applied to that purpose op to the pre T hsent period, should not prej udice the que stion. e Crown, unfortunately, bad too much money at its dia ., continue to exercise a controul over that td title was doubtful. In that view of the was borne out by the Report of a Committee House in 1797. He should therefore vote for of his Hon. Friend. ~YtI read two extracts from the reports of the Committee on this subject ; and from these ' that the Committee had recognised the Crown to the 41 per cent. duties, and that formed no part of the public revenue. Ile also xi Mr. Burke's Bill did not at all interfere Ind in question, though the attention of, had been particularly called to the subject. oended that the grant to the Earl of Kinnoul illegal as any of those subsequently made. ',ion he adverted to the unfounded and ano- Alden circulated against him (Sir C. Long) 'Meet ; be hoped that if t he Hon. Bent. (Mr. were the author of the pamphlet alluded to, in future attack him openly and fairly in where hr should be ready to answer him. however, he pursued the course he had begun. he Creevey) would certaiuly ave the a dvantage, as hong) woald meet bins with no reply. e ME explained. REEVEY replied. The House then divided : r. Creecey's Motion, 52.—Against it, 76. 04 . .trangers were re-admitted, REEVEY was on his legs. He moved a re stating, that it appeared to the Holm that four and a half per rent. accrued to the certain property in the island of .%ntigna, id other island., the pr..duce of which. though was expended in pensions granted to ra . lividttals, while large sums were annually the &knee and protection of the said islands ; ,are appeared expedient that a Committee he arminted to inquire into the appropriation aid ( hairs. -testion was put, and negatived without a di RIGHT OF VOTING. W. %VI LLIA3IS in rising to move for leave to a Dill to prevent the recurrence of a hand red in voting at election', did not conceive it t.a• for him to detain the Moose at any length. was ewe which prevailed to a considerable and he was at a loss to conceive on what the present Rill could be opposed. lie con hat he had a claim to the support of those who ienilly to reform, as well as to that of those who (verse to it, as wishing to give property its fair .e (es he must do whenever reform WV at i). his present object was hut to do away with , which every one must admit ought to be re lic moved for leave to bring in a Bill to persons from occasionally voting at eleedons , holds owlet the annual valise of forty shillings. rr was given to bring in the Bill. LUNATIC ASYLUMS. WODRIIOCSK obtained leave to bring in a s amend an Act of the dinth of the late King, re to Lunatic Asylums. VAGRANT PAMPA. . CHRTIVYND took the earliest opportunity of lying with the reemnmendation of the Report of onmittee which was read yesterday, by rising to , r leave to bring in a Rill to amend the law with :t to the passes of vagrants. He believed ecety •anit:scted with the «matey knew that enormous ‘'es fell on several parishes for passing vagrants. I, expen%.: amounted. he understood, in the last I to 100,0 0 nil. and for this expense the country ob wit no h..netit. It would naturally be asked what re -he coals! propose The first that lie would suggest al he that the present Vagrant Law should he sus. Jed for a year. At present the filling up of vagrant tames was c onsidered a mere form. This was seen a fact which had occurred in the West Riding 'orkshire ; which proved that passes were in some Aires granted not only for men but fur animals.-- .he West Riding of Yorkshire a pas.. beimu made f.r a vagrant, who was to be sent oil to Scotland the usual allowance of eight-pence per day, the , remarked that the sum to be allowed teas not o.rient for the subsistence of himself anal Isis coin niso:l;ey. The Justice's Clerks were much wils the grintiees of the monkey. and in rtsequence a blank pass w is filled up for the monkey the name of "John String." When the expensli re thus oreasiored amounted to 100,11001. he thought most he felt that it was high time that it slionbt be topped. The measure that he recommended might c onsi.lered a strong measure, but when the evil he am- so great. strong nteasitres were necess a ry. The seraid remedy that he should propose was. that the loing away with passes to enable vagrants to t r avel should be accompanied with a more extensive period imprisonment; at present the confinement for an act of vagrancy was only seven days. this was, in, velnt of fart. no punishment worth speaking of. The :aoler thought it useless to employ a vagrant who, as only to remain in prison a week, and he accord -gly came out the beggar he went in. lie should propose that the shortest period fur which a person' :timid he committed for an act of Vagrancy should be one month. he would have care taken that they should be pot to hard labour, and a part of the money which they earned while in prison be ireilld give to them on theirliheration. The third alteration which he would Ftspose went to do away with the rewards elf Ss. and les. which were at present paid on the committal d yap-arts, as these had been meek abased. The fossils regulation which he wished to see adopted oreald l qtable Magistrates to bind over individuals to prow Lute where acts of vagrancy had boa re prated. Hie "if& proposition would be that all walking passes * which in fart were but licenses 'for beggi n g. *Wad oast. Moping these sagrodoaa would. be ittiolh abate the es* sow .osocialsefl of. um ,costal at care 180.00 M re aassud. and eat 4MOr that repair/ mishit it was Omit soledie W cliwL tie cossladid br wing for lease to heW 'LIE Err N. —..-----, . Is a Bill tit amend tie present laws respecting the sillsrehenehen, punishing, and passing of vagrants. Mr. SCA IthErr .opported the motion. Ile pointed out the folly of removing the ea rrant a t a great rit• pease, that eventually, if thought necessary, he might be punished as he might hare been at first without in curring the espense of his removal. Considering the measure an beneficial in this view of the subject it bad his hearty concurrence. Mr. F. LEWIS considered that in the first instance something ought to he done to prepare the minds of those to whom the execution of this law must he left, for the contemplated change. Unless the executor' of the laws could be broweht to ft-el like the makers of them, their I ihour would he in v ain. The y ougitti to proceed gradually and with caution: and as it ap peared to him this subject was intimately connected with the poor l a ws, antl as there might be souse inconveni ence and danger in attempting to separate them, he would have the poor laws constantly before their eyes' while this measure was under c onsideration. Mr. LockliAßT noticed the different classes eft vagrancy which s.ecorreil, and suggested the expetli envy of correcting those who went abont the. cannily exercising some idle trade or calling, by refusing to I pass them home, leaving them to find their way as they L I can, without any relief hut roll as they could obtain from those as chose ta he imposed upon. Ile tlsonglit , it necessary that some restrictive system shotild be adopted to check the propensity that was remarked among the lower classes to throw themselves on the 1 poor-rates. tic wished the House to go to the root of 1 the evil, and to declare boldly what they were rewires! I I to do, and he thought the intentions of Ministers re specting the poor laws ought to be avowed. Mr. CRIPPS agreed with an Hon. Member who had spoken in this debate, that the question befsre the House was intimately connected with the pour laws. The Committee had considered whether they shoul.l do any thing till the measure of an lion. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Searlett) had been disposed of, hut they conceived that to be of such magnitude that it was probable it would ILA get through the House in the course of the pr: scut Session and this had deter mined them to come forward at once with the 11::1 which it was now wished to introduce. It oas thosteltt the experiment might he male for one year without risk of any very fatal cunsequen:•es. Ile explained the policy of the present system, described the sliffieulties that lay in the way of an alteration, and gave it as his opinion that the subject was one wl.ieh demanded the most serious c onsideration o f Parliament. The Marquess of LOS DONDEIitIY did not rise to give at this time any general opinion on the merits of the plan before the House. Contending difficulties must be expected fa meet them, whatever course they might urine, and all they had to do was to consider what line of conduct would expose them to the fewest, and what would he liable to the smallest objections. As yet they were hardly in a condition to enter on the discussioa, having neither the Report of the Commit tee, nor the Bill, before thesis. He thought the House would do well to all,uw the Hill to he brought in. The Report of the Committee wo uld, he un d ert ow', be printed in the course of a few slays, and then, on the second reading of the Bill, they could coine to the dis cussion with considerable advantages, which they did not possess at present. Mr. 11A1U10111) wished for nn improvement is the system, and for an alteration of the treatn:mt efperi enced by vagrants in Houses of Correction, seas to ensure their being put to hard labour. The lion. Member for Oxford seemed to think, with a view to putting a atop to vagrancy, it was only necessary to refuse the beggar relief. This plan might answer for a society in a state of nature, but was in a great mea sure inapplicable to one in our present artificial state ; and he did not see how it could be reconciled with the principles of our religion. This led him to spealt (perhaps somewhat is regularly) of the Mendicity So ciety. The Mendicity `society enabler persons to re Here the unfortunate beg g:tr, by giving him a letter which woald procure hiat a supply of sustenance if he was really an object of compassion, but which would expose him to pnnisliment if lie were an impostor. Leave was given to bring in the Bill. JUSTICES OF PF.tCF.. Mr. N. CHOLMI.EV 'ivans-4 leave to bring in a BW to amend an Act of the sStli of tieorge the Third, to enable Justie...s of the Peace in certain cases to art out of the limit; of the County iu which they actu ally were. Mr. 111.. ME pl‘t:mnetl his :notion respecting the lonian Isl.-. till W e d ne sday. General lIA It 1 . gate notice that on Wednesday he would move for leave to bring in a Bill relatiire to the Distilleries at Carrickfergus. - POOR RF.LIEF Bill. Mr. SCARLET I', having moved the order of the day for the second reading of the Poor Relief BilLeone tuencesl his speech by observing . , that he wished at the outset to state, that it never was his intention, ree% when he first propsed the measnee now before them, to encumber it with many matters of detail. lie wee desirous rather to point out to the House the prinei-- plea upon which he thought the present system of our poor laws a vicious one, and one which et-gushed cor rection. Ile had been desirous of rutting it in the most simple form, and of calling the attention of the House to what he conceived to be the grand soarers of those evils under whirls we now laboured. He would shortly recapitulate the three great causes of all the various mischiefs and inconveniences which 1 , are fount! to result from our present system of poor laws. They were to be found, first, in a compulsory 1 and unlimited provision for the poor : secondly, in the administration of that provision, not to support in dustry. to encourage good conduct, and to he a relief for those who might be disabled by infirmities, butt to cherish the vices and the indolence of that class of the poor who mere disposed to exist rather on the charity of others, than to depend for their own bread upon theirown exertions : thirdly, (which Ina the grand sad priacipal source of all tholee evils. as compared with others), in the restraint that now existed apse do free exercise of labour. It had actually been held ilis 'weeder of the atagistrates for tits relief a poor illV i ll: rot valid, d. a naket b e . it contained the adjudication Magistrates, bslis Nisei;. The Learned gentleman then adverted to a roam which he said hada direct tendency to raise* As wages otlabour. This was, the eesployasent 14. ime=(paetlealarly those being married sod haling who received very slight wages for thole li. -brows they received them to cestjaaetiou with 1 V - theit parochial allowance. Say that a pauper, to sup port himself. his wife and family., u a compensation f o r'his labour recei ved 94. a week. 'I he unmarried labottrer was by this means reduced to the condition that he who by the proper wages of his own litho& could support himself was compelled to work in com petition with one who was content to take 94. as the weekly wars of his labour. Let Hon. Bentlemen look to the condition of the labouring poor of Eng land. They won'd find men working almost their blood out ; and for what prospects ? For the Ittelaus choly prospect of terminating their existence in the! poor-house. The labourer at 9 s. could have no other. 1 In every point of view, moral, political, anti religions, the man who bail a direct interest in his own labour, and could thus discern something likes cheering pros pect to encourage him, was more valuable to society anti to himself, titan a man trithout any prospect hut a poor house for his old age. The Hon. and Learned Gen tleman then exposed the fallacious anti ill effects of the law of %ettlenients at some length. The total anti unqualified abolition of this law appeared to hint to he absolutely nee's% try. Before they could return to the original intention% of the act of Elizabeth, they must remove the difficnities interposed by the regula tions arising out of the practice which bad grown up with respect to settlements. What was the principle of this law ? Nothing more than an arbitrary con nexion between the man anti the place of his nativity, or of some sillier accidental relation. Arbitrary it was, because it woo not funneled on any just principle of legislation or policy. After some further remarks oa thelneonsisteney and injustice of the law of settle ment, the Hon. and Learned Gentleman o :served that it had been stated from Nottingham that there were a great number of persons who hail settlements in that town, but who resided elsewhere, and that there- fore the totvtisnien were afraid the effect of this Bill might be to increase the borlen of their poor rate.. lint the !lunge would see that the limitations of this measure were calculated to prevent any such addi tional charge, beyond a specified proportionate amount ; and therefore the elturchwartlens would I have but a very short answer to give the par ities: they would be empowered to say, " You must go el,etelirre, for we cannot a coal to maintain yon." Ithe Act, the .1: 1 1.1 of Elizabeth, provided a power of taxing one parish in all of the too heavily burdened friends of another. He (Mr. Scarlet*) objected to the principle of melt taxation in sit ; but, as the power %moil upon the statute-honk, it might be quoted with some effect, perhaps to met' an evil which he thottelit imaginary. lie happened to know that the account ' latest population of mannfarturing tawns rendered the lands in the vicinity of such towns peculiarly valnable. Indeed, he could quote instant-es, where such lands, cultivated for the subsistence of such accumulated po pnlation, were let at so high a rent as sixteen guineas per acre. Another objection to the Bill before the Home was the m ',imam which it proposed to intro duce ; and he was free to confess that cases might for some time arise, in which that ma.rimosa wonl , l be found inconvenient. But the legislature night not to he deterred from adopting a sound and beneficial principle by the fear of a temporary inconvenience: let the House adopt the measure, see the effect, retain the principle, anti remedy, pro tewpore, the trail sient inconvenience. If any gentleman saw such a prospect of temporary mischief, as to call for the enactment of a prospective law, he (Mr. Barlett) had a elastic which might be made part of the Kill, and which supplied a certain cure for the evil. If scarcity of provisions, epidemic disease, or any other circumstance of local affliction should be found to ren der an allowance necessary beyond the maximum, then let a meeting of the inhabitants of the place, not a se lect vestry, hut an open meeting, at which the sense of the people could be taken, have power to make an ad ditional a llowance. The system of maintaining illegiti mate children, and the mode of insrosing rates, were both points upon which improvement might lie made;' hot such arrangements were rather matters of detail, to she treated of after the moving principle should he adopt. ed. It was sail that, miller the existing laws, rah* might frequently be diminished by the vigilance of ma- I gistrates. No doubt they mi g ht; he (Mr. Scarlett)l knew instances in which such reductions had been ef- 1 1 reeled ; hut curls inatances were exceptions to the gene ral rule ; and the rood effect lasted no longer than the vigilance was maintained. He v.greed that the calamities tinder which the poor were Inhering had been pro- dared in a great measure by the increase of taxation. But why had those sufferings been so produced ? Be- i cause increase of taxation, and the consequent in-1 erase in the money price of almost every article of consionption, had not been attended by a per porttonair increase in the rate of wages paid to , them. The labourer was now paid, not by wages, but by charity : he was demoralized, enslaved, deprived of that independence and self-respect which alone could make him a good man and a useful citizen. All this took place without a single shilling being saved to his employer: nay, the employer. in the end, was a loser by the system. It would he found, almost throughout gagland. that the state of cultivation in which the Und appeared depended in a great measure upon the condition of the labourer by whom it was cultivated. In Lancashire and in the west riding of Yorkshire where fuel was to be obtained almost fur nothing, where living was cheap. and wares were comparatively high, was not the land, in general, in better cultiva tion than in the southern colonies, where wages woe* low, and poor' rates enormous? It followed, iodised, of necessity that it should be at. ; it followed of nese& sly that a man would work better on a plentiful racial anti a prospect of independence titan upon 9a. a week, with the prospect of a workhouse. The farmer who paid 200/. a year in wages, got more work done for his money, and gut it better dune, than the man who paid 100/. in wages. and 100!. in poor rates. The Hon. and Learned Member then referred to some roe' terns which he had received from the parish of St. James, Bath, by which it appeared that, with an is arose *sly of one-third in population daring the last lOC yea.. the poor rates had increased gradually from Its. 11,1 per week to 41/. fis. This inrrrase was eves sew gulag on. Would the Ilona stem the torrent new, or wait until its furca became overwhelming ?1 Alter some remarks upon the probable *Beet of the proposed Bill, in saving the Immense empower in curred by removals. and in patties as end to lowa which formed as eternal soiree of litigatioa, the Not. Member concluded by moving that the hill be read a Wood time. Sir L WILSON was confalrat that himself sod his Ilea. and Leaned Friend had one common object, aast sty. the heads of *elegem; bet they finitely dif I feted in the means to be penned for the atta.noseet of t t h o a a t h o ro bj :a c t t e . the :t b a i t ee nte tell of to l h li e rob li e l t l i, b ;l 3 :7ir it S n 7; 4 , Blackstone hail declared to be tonndeil upon the fi,.. t principles of civilized society. lie roulette:ea Or t statute to be the .iinelaa Chorea of the poor, and the palladium of public tranquillity. With respect to tte 14 a u r a lu lli s i v ‘bu it e n u r ici e 'o' n t e si iT s i r il h irl i e c 'Ll i n s bY tt m e t y l4l7 ;v pi r ' s ue se ohr sse .lia.Ps d tthh a el t r n i it e :: l la s i t tw , : 1: : 1 11 : 61 d ndi tMo t ie . tinual Warts would be 'slaking to increase it. The uext measure ought properly to be called the Awe matrimonial and the Anti-population Bill. B e wog convinced that the putting any restriction upon i 5,,,, ' riage, world increase the evils arising to society (nee the prevalence of illicit intercourse. He deciai.ihk intention of opposing the Bill in all its stagec. Mr. PRANKLAND LEWIS was astonieheil to her it asserted that the laws of Elizabeth had given i nn ~ cable rights to the poor, and that those laws semis:a were aloof from alteration or amen:Went. The nig h 4 4 property he took be one of the first principles 0( l e, British conetitntion ; and of flint right, the poor i„, in their present ellape, were altoeether subversive. Te s , till of Elizabeth, and some preceding acts, assigned pre. visions for the poor in the shape of penal labia, sad rot as a right of I reirirty. Mr. J. BENNET 1, after having traced the origin and early history of the poor laws, said that the great evil which r .nutted from them in his view was, that the, 'snide the poor man so abject a wretch as to hare no fief. ings of character in society. It appeared to him, her. ever, that a maximum in rates which depended o n a n demand for labour, was absurd. The result of the hil!, if it elsonlri pass, would Iw, that every man pnisitssin; a whole parish would destroy his cottages to protect hia. self from poor rates, and that other parishes world be consequently buirlessed. Mr. P. COURTENAY postponed the observations which Ise was disposed to make till the Hill should be committed, and assume that shape isr which the Hon. Mover wished to have it passel. He totally- disagreed with the lion. Member fur iteaminaeis (Mr. F. L ew i s ). and agreed rather with the Home and liallant G e n era / (Sir it. Wilson.) The poor had a fair and jest claim, before Owl and Irian, for a hither provision than tea liononrahle Member for Beasimaris was disposed to allow. Mr. I L tititOlil) was understood to be farnerahle to the forwarding of the bill in its present stage. Lord MIL I ON was most friendly to the bill gem. rally. The repeal of the law of settlement he to rsi. dercd as particularry called fur, and he would most ew dially support it. ale must observe, at the same due, that men under distress from other eirrnmstaneeserke ! out against the pour laws and against popilatine. lie I thought the population had scarcely at all isscreasedie 1 agricultural distress during the last twenty years. If i n me m v a a n iu u:a o e f t i n a r a i . n i g ha t d ow il n it e r , e i a t s s e h d o i n s li ce. 4 beginning of the IMth century pap irteeh h a d sequence.eete inc r eased Atlti a t t b e t i lation hail been bought the strenigth and wealth et a country : in the beginning of the 19th ei ntury, ilea, for the first time, thought a ruinous burden. Ile h. tiered the evils of the country were rather neieg Is those who hail been called, not invidiously, drones is relation to its industry and capital. The intermit ef time debt was the burden whirls oppressed the coletry. The pour by the law of settlement were as nserb ita• e. epee A de:4e as the ancient vassals in feudil tisers.-.- That law operated equally against the poor sad tie landholder, by es/dining the poor to places whore so labour was to be found. 'I he clause in the leA mart ing marriages, Ise thought, would become nugatele,lai yet would he regarde&by madly as disativautariel li the poor. lie s.toold, therefore, wish it to be omit el. 'I he Marquess of LONDONDERRY sit old is sorry to state any thing that might impede the meow of the Hon. and Learned Oentleman to whom pet gratitude was due.. If the measure should not des diately succeed, evert discussion aod considered* given to it would ripen the public mind for its ski. mite success. A committee had sat up stairs tee or sions, on this subject, and his right Hon. Friend (Mr. S. Bourne) hail felt then the difficulty attendant or bringing forward measures of this kind, while do minds of gentlemen were unprepared for them. TI . repot of that Committee, however, had done rat I good. It hail introduced to the notice of the pahlie I sound principles upon the subject of the Poor Lam. and had taught the House, on which it merle a grist • impression, that in all their previous legielatioa, they had been proceeding in a wrong direction. 11, 10 repeated the expression of his obligetion to the Has. and Learned tientleman who hail introduced the pea' sent Bill, whirls, if it were only for tee discussles it excited—and every discussion on the subject was 1 positive pain to the public—would he prodectiveei the utmost benefit.. He would suggest to the H.. and Learned Oentleman that he should withdraw dim motion for the present, and should get his ablates' clauses printed, in order that the Horse might look% his measure as a whole, and then fix as early a day 0 p •esible for the further consideration of the subject Mr. CALCRAP f concurred with what had WM frost; the NribleMursoriss. lie thought that it mei be better for his Honourable and Learned Prima • take the debate on the measure at some future Or after the Bill had been reprinted. Mr. SCARLET!' said , th at he shonld haw le . . 44 ' jection to go into the Committee izaarter, if be l_mo n had his clauses ready. One of those to whirls he 1 14 . ! alluded he had prepared contemp oraneousl y situ hi' Bill : but the other clauses he must endess be kat mot ready. nor could he get ready without a del : leisure to himself. If the House would allow take the second reading n ow, be should be to propose his clauses to the Committee o i n is t el ;: r : As he was now upon hi s lege, h e would, wt soissionwhoifch he hadltel re ceived c thelousehlreyaoteoirtehdemfroal::sintrleagititritre 11 'letter e 134 The magistrate informed him, that w ithin th _. fortnight a young person liall given ti.ree guiles' 7 o,f a half for a license to be arried, who, alter he . o les married, had immediately taken advantage 5 married. marriage, to go to the overseer and obtain Irr•• haw relief and a resideuce.--( ll ear.) to l b . e hP eisai ßi ro ll i w t at t a e r ci toißsneollpotroeiddiasay second time, t s i i ° s l . . and licall°ll Mr. CAIN'S supported the motion. Mr. DENISON opposed the motion. Mt. J. EMI ill was in favour of it. Mr. H. SUMNER was against the Bill. a rings Sir gDWAKU issArcuatiLL aroma sipiawsw. • n k the llal ° ler Mr. W. WILLIAMS did got tin 'Usti* ale its Gl i stesepll •el; he °l" t therefor' .1. .paste It. r rft dA ZI Sir J. SIAI Comeittee free CALCI I 'I, three faseei 'llse Holm din geitotet, f or e hot. I'M 011 "er 41 th• "" PA, Zof of ia frog Perersimeo lino Coed 21st of Ma E st i m ates. DorieS tb trith gesP°" pialats were. powder dam Beet wits disc barrels of se being fottia to 50110. eee l l y r epotted (the late Sit tern:toed to tare of this own hoods, ?torment t a chock e to make go were is eon abbey wen the Monne made from been 1,573 the and pi operation a and from 11 stack of pi less a saw ?FtICS OF Rash stoat s per Cent. *per Cant. si pot Cant over Cats epeCt.Ni drat tog* Aso fop - , por RASP!! mai Mond 0 TU an! =iM= 7 1114,in Cietair? ntler t I says. " jeaties ti qui«•d I froth Vie retails larch: a an hada betted reqpect) silence connect prises t infer t 1 from 11 psi tits of an: The thougi tontal Übe Ili S ruled II reek (loves 441 y oiled womb doe rapol awe '% • toga' to cent which its ti CIVIP. he was of the Rona the motion u Sir C. 1.0: Finance Cot tie inferred i ri Olt of the thee; funned noticed that wtth the inn Parliament and conteni M 35 'JIM 11 5 In 'condo& • # r yawns 'lei , ..:n this snit. ' Creevey) vs Itr worth! ii the Howie, If, however (Mr. Crery hr (Sir C. Mr. Hl' Mr. Cit' -a. For Mr. hiajority. `. Mil n %i Mr. CH ...lotion, It eittieg of f Crown on Nevi% ant eonsidpral T 0 .. 1ii {nal S'btl 4 for i :! titrref!) .-N fi nlcl hi. V. the sal The tri .1..i0n. Mr. W tring . in committe recomary 'the evil extent, a f !on n#l4 c.. , i ft 41 01 were frig /.•,, were adv i ^finence tempted! 1 a fraud, i.:erised. I..erent . an Freel Leant 1 1 11x.1 Pill to 1 i it...lve ti It Mr. e.- triply tt-#. Col ask for wiped • i ore ell / 1# caper'. Thom. 1 rear t tainPd i I"eity . 14'011,ta i . F cnde I . HOW I JeftM ' 4 .1 Y 0 = t t ;teal . , 1 f r tli Nit f I ' / .. a n k l':111 !..tAr panic t plea: r I t:TtS - I hy t . 1 4 , titre . '. 1 it a • to; he i I ; . ,an lit r. srr, .01 • , , 4, 4 11. .4 art /1 . 1 1 it.; Pr /1 * 51. oil be to t 1 1 ,1 ii iv# TI .1 I ' o ii C. I 1 1 IS 1 . ' I 1 :I 1. 1 ilk . I 1 . I li . i I 0 --- - so to Stollen) had a elegise which inigns ore 000.... e ..... _. the poor. lie i on . the Bill, and whirls supplied a certain mire for the evil. cioald, theretore, woe. o. .., —. _____ wto If scarcity of provisioos, epidemic disease, or any other he Mar:picas of LONDONDERRY sh aid le hos vie 'lorry to state any thing that might impede the meson Verna 'r to cirmimstance of local affliction shoold be found to ren- r e o ,. der an allowance necessary beyond the 'maximum, then of the lion. and !warned Hentleman to whom pot •ttatelos a let a meeting of the in of the place, not a se- gratitude was due. If the measure should not tame an W e i mea- lect vestry, hut an open meeting, at which the sense of di d tely succeed, every discussion sod considered* tate ; betted I the people mold be taken, have power to make an all- given to it would ripen the public mind for its alti- h th e olitional allowance. The system of maintaining illegiti- respectl mate - e success. A committee had sat up stair( toe we 'peak mate children, and the 'slide of inorosing rates, were mons, on this subject, and lois right Hon. Friend (Mr. Inslonee So- both point• upon which improvement might be made; Bourne) hail felt then the difficult y attendant ea „ re but such arrangements were rather ma tters of detail, to S. connect letter -b c treated of after the moving principle should he adopt• bringing forward measures of this kind, while till priers t if he ed. It was said that, under time existing laws, rates minds of gentlemen were unprepared for them. Tv Jitter tl vori might frequently . be diminished by the vigilance of ma- I report of that Committee, however, had done ' " gistrates. No doubt . they might ; rat from It r. knew instances in which such reductions hr (Nir- Scarlet') good. It hail introduced to the notice of the Wolk. sound principles upon the subject of the Poor Lain. Piste fecteol ; hut such inatances were exc e p tione to the gene- , and had taught the House , on which it made a grist cal rule; and the good effec t lasted no longer than the : of ate: in a I vigilance was maintained. He e.greed that the calamitiee ', impression, that i n all their previous leeislatimetkry The !• laird, . under which time poor were +offering' had been pro. ' haul been proceeding in a wrong direction. He Win thougl les to i ductal in a great measure by the increase of taxation. . repeated the expression of his (obligation to the Ho. , , . moral seta -1 But why hail those sufferinge been so produced ? Be- atm ' , earned Hentleman who hail intrednced the It* cause increase of taxation, and the consequent in- I sent Bill, which, if it were only for the discoed* it ig the crease in the money price of almost every article excited—and every discussion on the subject tree a 1 tbe Ili Stoned of consoimption, hall not been attended by a tiroeipoeitive gain to the public—would he prod s Greek lay he porttotiate increase in the rate of wages paid t o the utmost benefit. ,He would suggest to the 1110. uaret pie to them. The labourer wise now paid, not by wages, but i and Learned lientleman that he should withdraw Itis . 4aity by charity :he was demaralizeil, enslaved, deprived of motion for the present, and should get his addition' deed I that independence and self -res p ect which alone could clauses printed, in order that the House might leaks womb of the make him a good man and a useful citizen. All this his measure as a whole, and then fix ae early a days ll,eono- took place w i t hout a single shilling being saved to his p .esible for the further consideration of the subject in go lat the employer : nay. the employer , in the end , wae a loser Mr. CAM:RAP r concurred with what had fall" ' views 11, 191011 by the system. It would he found, almost throughout from the NeblrMutapiess. lie thought that it 1 ,00 *a them, V.agland, that the state of cultivation in which the be better for lois Honourable and Leerned ?flood 1° rapt lie woe loiod appeared depended In a great measure upon the take the debate on the measure at sonic filial. Mr ° a. pr ,„, condition of the labourer by whom it Vas cultivated. after the Bill had been reprinted. wages ref our In Lancashire and in the west riding of Yorkshire Mr. scARLEra. said, that lie 'lsmail hate 1 16 . , (4. wilb ed coy- white fuel was to be obtained almost for nothing, hats to go into the Committee izaurter, if los me Mil in the where living was cheap, and wages were comparatively haul his clauses ready. One of those to which Mid !mote of time high , was not time land , in general. in better cultiva- alluded lie had prepared of with Ins the soa rers minim than in the southern comities, where wages were Bill : but the other claus es be must emote* War nebat .11, lie low, and poors rates enormous? it followed, iaileed, not ready, nor could he get ready without s dal owes of of necessity that it should be so ;it followed of n eeds. leisure to himself. If the House could allow hi. t° _, that which shy that a man would work better on a plentiful meal take the second reading now, lie should be Freer" kelt af poor and a prospect of independence than upon 9A, a week, to propose his c l auses to the t7ounuittee on kltnn i q' IA ipuleory with time proepeet of a workhouse. The farmer who As he was now upon his le r • he would, with the ptv st r. in the paid 2001. a year in wages, got inure work done for mission of the House, read to them an 'street of 11 port in- pis money, and got it better dune, than the man who letter which he had lately received from a magisvmer• a relief paid 1001. in wages.. and 10 0 /. in poor rates. The The magistrate informed him, that within the 13 4 s, but to lion. and Learned Member then referred to some re- fortnight a Young I'vrt'" l' 3 ' l given tree g uiliras Wit is ofthe turns which he load received from the parish of St, a half for a license to he monied, who. oft" h e w2s Ore P rharity James . Seth, by which it appeared that, with an in- Pad married, had immediately taken advantage of 0 ad upon crease only of one-third in population during the last WU marriage, to go to the overater and obtain her hi ° it grand lOU yeas. the poor rates had increased gradually from relief aud a resideuce.--( ll ear.) ohm ompared 9s. lila ?sr week to 41/. Ss. This increase was even The Bill was then read a second time, and (Ono' p red upon new gulag on. Would the House stem the torrent t• be committed on Monday next. Lel ;ten held now. or wait until its forc e became overwhelmin g ? METROPOLIS ROA DS lint. end tmf a poor After some remarks upon time probable effect of the Mr. CHIN'S s upp orted the motion. the 'Meatiest proposed BIS, in saving the immense exporting in- Mr. DKNISON opposed the m otion. Tim tba 1 "bast rutted b y rtnilivils• and in Pnnimir on cod to Imo Mr. J. !MI I'll WAS in favour of it. tted to a whleh formed an eternal source of litigation, the Wm. Mr. H. SUMNER was tut the B ill ' to robust Member eeneladed by mewing that the SKI be read a Sir SLOVAK') KILATCIIIKILL pant al teemed dune. Os 0040 12 . Bill c ol* sal ii Itstiar *S. WILSON was mildest that himself ' sod his Mr. W. WILLIAMS did set think the rtbele hi. Illoa. and Leaned reload had one common object to acessaplials its object ;be must tiovrefort or ese sapesesed a sisals l e : ilea with aamety. the tewilit of tfte)peor; bat they entirely Alf f pose it. 1 111001 Wllb ter , brob the that trove aria map iss TIN NW "••=7"-3in.7 A in ro view' OW libie 11 P tie M dui gin NM