The Statesman. — London, England, 1815-05-02 00:00:00

mi Th LII vir • Eli ! item I pre c dher de th, !pfort its n. a ctual nirati a w et were wemi Thi rally Mara t Ill'S lI.P at nrl Sil • pf ti-ps Nn al 10(1)111 110561 1 this •:n Inept c ilkg a f ('row! a Mes , The 106 , 4 ; pow. Etc tars. P cer•l i; duty ti On the .ser mept I The Fops U • Lin for the legal d et•artr.! agreod The piton t! • ;. ! • lie opt by of di move aiittee His nip to that The May of *mild Londa thip' a year theref,l check the fac 'tight I ThiY, by the The these n that t hi City 101 'th der] I Thi4 gallery mice Lui; of Pit EV an yenta kliiioll The nbje • alteo.:ite etws:i./n The ( e 3 to he Mr. for the st;lsetti Mr. House and 1, tlescril Irving Learn! most 1, mated fore t h being he tho loge hi sPesend subseq well a! he shy Comm Mr. forms its whi tom! a stan ces man nt it in a l • might I ....mt.fts IMPERLII. PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, MAY I. Or Appeal of L nod when, a. Httudenek and others, ter.", Counsel were heard, and further proceed- Fr itta. w . fh i) flaws Pill was read n second time. ,kale r.. While Fishery, m o d the Irish Prize Gooch sew le..d itte third time. NAPLES. GitEY said, that some days ago he had ,„ „mi r e of a motion on which their Lordships summoned for to-morrow. Not having re- A l a satisfactory answer to the questions which ! h en put, he was desirous now again to require , rm .tion before he determined finally to act upon notice. He wished to know whether we were ,ll} at war with Naples—whether any commu jioos would be made from the Crown to Parlia it on the subject—and whether any negociatiorm • no w carrying on with that country from which might hope for the return of peace? 'he Earl of LIVERPOOL said, he had no diffi. tr in informing the Noble Lord, that our rein.. ti ith Naples depended on the movements of rat. in consequence of the advance of Murat t.c North of Italy, Lord Wm. Beittinck had It him notice that he would consider any hostili (won his part against the Allies, as a breach of J imi.tice between the two countries. He could as to the fact of any hostilities hatieg ~, place between his Majesty's troops and those Hides: Neither was he aware that any negocie• s were now going on that could render the mo- , alluded to by .the Nobly Lord in any measure ttielit. Vol GREY observed, that according to his con. (ion of what had fallen from the Noble Lord, ,hties were now to be considered as revived, and country as in a state of war with the Govern. tof Naples. The regular way of communicat. tact of this nature was by message from thi ern ; he therefore wished to know, whether such fame, was in contemplation 'hp E.lrl of LI VER FOOL stated, that he was not -iiseil to niake such a communication at pre. nor could he give any answer on the subject vl GREY thought such a coarse of proceeding extraordinary ; however, as he could not suc.- in obtaining ac/ answer, he should feel it his to bring forward his motion. In moticir of the Marquis of LANSDOWNE, .:reonfl reading of the Habeas Corpus Amend ' Bill was postponed till to-morrow se i nuight. GAOI. FEES RILL le Rouse went into a Committee on the Gaol Bill. rd ELLENBOROUG II proposed a new clause, le purpose of guarding the Sheriff against certain difficulties, in which he ►could be placed by the roents of the Bill as it stood. The clause was , eod to. lc Marquis of BUCKINGHAM took that op. !city of expressing his wish that the operation of Ahnoid be extended as generally as possible. rderatood that a Committee had been appoint. the House of Commons to enquire in"the state le City Prisons; and gave notice that he would to-morrow, that the report of that Corn. tee should be communicated to their Lordships. motion would be for a message to the Commons 'tat ffect. *LORD CHANCELLOR. thought the best of proceeding under the difficulties of the case, Id be to have two distinct Bills. The City of ion had proved the other day, at their Lord liar, that it contributed the sum of 15,0001. it t the support of the prisoners ; they should I . ore, be cautious of any measure that might the hand of charity, or, by interfering with icilities of changing from one prison to another, It have the effect of crowding the City prisons.— , he thought, would be beet provided against the introduction of two separate Bills. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE allowed that • objects should be kept in view, and thought he Bill in question would be a great benefit to the (if London, as it had already proved to several ies. 'he House then resumed, and the Report was or ' to be received to.rn nrow.—Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. REPORTS Or PRIVATE BILLS. bring the last dati f r r• ceivior, the report.; of Private the neither took the Cnair at half- post three. The .y ma, not, however, opened. in consequence of the g;v.nby Str John Newport, of his intention to move n .f the Hrittse. ire o'clock, the strangers were admitted, when it was Alma that Sir JOHN NEWPORT had signified his in on nut t.l move. " that the House should be culled over;" tject which he had in view, that of procuring a numerous :mice of Members daring the discus-lon of ►he momentous •n before the House, having Iteett obtained. CALCUTTA I.IIIIITS. Calcutta Limits Rill was send a second time, and order he committed on Wednesday. INSOLVENT ORBTOTIS' BILL. Serjeant BEST moved the Order of the Day he House resolving into a Committee on the lu !lit Debtors' Bill. r. HORNER said, that the Bill now before the ;P was ally thing but the Bill which the lion. Learned !Gentleman (Mr. Serjeant Best) had ibed, when he obtained leave of the House to it in. lie understood from the Hon. and 'ned Gentleman since, however, that two of the material clauses had been omitted. As it was rial that the measure should come complete be the House, in a pen fect form, antecedent to their le called upon to deliver their opinion upon it, hought in the present instance an unfair advan had been gained by o b iai uing the consent to the nd reading of a Bill, the essence of which was lbsequently to he changed. With these feelings, as ' 1 as from an insuperableobjection to the preamble, thould object to the House resolving into the imittee. r. ABERCROMBIE thought that the vital is of the House had been evaded, by the manner , hich this Bill had been passed through the se . and most material stage. Under these circum laces, he thought the lion. and Learned Gentle ought to withdraw the Bill altogether, and bring again, in-a complete shape, so that the House be able to consider it in its perfect bearings. • • rivn sorATEsmAg. The SPEAKER said, that in all cases where the objects of a Bill had not been properly explained to, " or understood by the louse, the Introducer had the option of withdrawing it, in whatever stage it might be, and bringing in another, consonant with his own views, and in an intelligible shape. Mr. Serjeant BEST then agreed to withdraw the present Bill, and the order for the Committee was discharged. Leave was then given to bring in a Bill in tt per fect form. PETITION OF THE LIVERY OV LONDON. Sir W. CURTIS said, he held in his hand a Peti tion purporting to be from " the Lord Mayor, Al dermen, arid Livery of London, in Common Hall as. sembled." He could not help viewing this Petition as one of a most extraordinary nature, yet knowing that it was couched in respectful language, he felt himself bound to offer it for the reception of the House. He hoped the House would excuse him, however, if he stated that there was not one senti ment which it contained, which was in accordance with his own feeling. The Petition adverted to a variety of matters—there was a reference to a Tax Bill then before the House, however, which he thought, independent of other objections, would operate as an inducement to the House to reject it, inasmuch as he understood it was contrary to the forms of the House, to admit such Petitions. With the permission of the House, however, he would read that part of the Petition to which he alluded. The SPEAKER said, if the Honourable Baronet was desirous of making fuller explanation, he might ; but if he was conscious that the Petition was im proper, perhaps that step would be scarcely neces sary. Sir WM. CURTIS wished the House to judge of its impropriety. The Hon. Baronet then read the last paragraph of the Petition, which alluded to the proposed re-establishment of that inquisitorial mea sure, the Income Tax, notwithstanding the pledge which had been given of its abandonment, and called 'pop the House to interpose and stop the career of that weak, rash, and infatuated Administration, by which the happiness and vital interests of the country were about to be finally sacrificed. The SPEAKER said, the House would judge from the passage which had been read, whether the Petition was for or o t ainst the Income Tax.— [Laughter.] The question being put for bringing up the Peti tion— The CHANCELLOR of the E;CHEQUER said, he thought the House had ; heard enough to in duce them to rject the Petition. Mr. HORNER saw nothing in the Petition which could warrant the House in refusing to receive it.— It had come from a most - duals, and from what he fectly decorous in its lane , referred to the Income incidental to the opinion and infatuated conduct of country into a war withi obtain peace. Mr. BATHURST said, , az preastd a o op; ni on- -hostlio vernment, he should have - received. It was clear, referred to the Income Ti before the House, and in It could not be received of the House. Sir JOHN NEWPOR Petition in question, either fringed any rule of the Ht. timid mode of stating the to that House was by Per stated many grievances, said one word of the Int connected with the condor sters, of whose incapacity in harsh, and, no doubt, gal Mr. Serjeant BEST sail? the Petition in question di come Tax Bill before the 1 Majesty's Ministers might it into a law. It was not much objected, as to two the Petition, which be cot gross and infamous libels tution, and the Country, to Pa rliament. Mr. WHITBREAD dens thing libellous in the Nati' sistent with the forms of ti Mr. PEEL(: considered fixity commented upon, at Tax Bill then hefore the 11, Mr. T I ERN EY agreed against a new tai, under House, that it ought not tf however, that such was tin ask the Worthy Alderman put it into his hands had sai the Property Tax ? Sir wm.cuirris.—" Mr. WALLACE opposo tition. Mr. BARING thought road at the table, in order able to form their judgmeni Lord COMPTON also to be read. Mr. W. SMITH thougi, Petition which should preal Mr. PONSONBY said, objected to upon such a against the present Petition, ing against the Property thought it was much wiser received. Mr. 11. SUMNER agreed Petition being brought up, " might judge of its real me The SPEAKER always rule of the house, that sented against any fax int► Means of the year, that ii The Petition was then b. Sir WM. CURTIS moved table. The CHANCELLOR said, that now the House read ; they could form their -- not Petitioh against the Proprty Tax. The Petition manner a Petition for Parliamentary Reform could went through a vast variety of matter, but it ap. be drawn, without stating what the Petitioners corn: peered to him evident that the ' , dudes' complaint plained of in the present mode of Representation. was against the war and the Property Tax. if the He then read frost the Journals some passages front House considered it in that light, although he Was a Petition which had been received on this subject, ready to open aS wide a door as possible to Petitions, which appeared to him infinitely stronger. yet he thought that the Houle must adhere to its esti- Mr. FORBES said, the only (Meg to be regretted blished rules. upon this occasion was, that there should have neon Mr. ABERCROMBIE thought that this Petition so much discussion. Had the Petition been received contained two distinct propositioas. The first was a quietly, and laid upon the table, lie had no doubt but sort of apology fur coming to that House after the the Petitioners would have been extremely disap little attention that had lately been paid to Petitions. pointed. Upon this point he must say, that he believed that After some observations from Mr. BARING and the inattention which had been evinced in the course Mr. BATHURST, the House divided : of the present Session, not only to the'Petitions of the Io (,your of the Petition !yin . ; ou the table City of London, but to the Petitions of the great As " 11$ it body of the people of this coun t r y, was a lt og eth er Maj..rit; FOREIGN RELATIONS. unprecedented in the annals of Parliament. Upon Mr. HORNER rose for the purpose of putting the other point, it appeared as if it was the disposi- question to the Noble Lord opposite, with reference tion of the House to construe thei r rule s a s strictly to a notic . he had given of a motion on the subject as possible against the Petitioners. The whole of of the relations subsisting between the Government the Petition was an argument against the conduct of of this country and that of Naples. As he cons Ministers, in plunging the country into a war, which ceived the transactions between the two Governments appeared to the Petitioners unnecessary and impro- to be concluded, he thought It was necessary the per, at least before the experiment o f negotiation House should be fully informed respecting them.— had been tried. The fact respecting the renewal of Since he had given the notice, however, he had the Income 'fax was only stated incidentally, and as heard, that Negociations were still petalitog t and, as a consequence of that conduct of Ministers of which he had no whit to embarrass the proceedings of his they complained. . Majesty's Ministers, he should be glad to know, Mr. Serjeant BEST opposed the receiving the Pe- whether any Negotiations mere, in fact, in progress ? tition, on what he conceived . to be much higher If he received an answer in the affirmative, he would, grounds than those suggested by the Hon. Baronet.— if necessary, postpone his notice. Ile should pot it to the House, whether they would Lord CASTLEREAGH thanked the Learned submit to be told by any Petitioners, that they were Gentleman for the candour he had manifested ; not in the habit of listening to Petitions from the but he was not aware of any thing that could ope people. Every body who was at all in the habit of 'rate as a bar to his bringing forward his motion to , . attending the House, and witnessing its proceedings, morrow. must know that this was a most false and infamous j INSOLVENT DEBTORS. misrepresentation. It was well known, that as to Mr. BENNETT wished to know, from the Noble the particular point, the Income Tax, the House had tort!, or any other of his Majesty's Ministers, whe. in course of the present Session received a vast num- they any determination had yet been come to, with ber of Petitions, but under other circumstances, and respect to the appointment of a person to fill the si when such Petitions could be received without vin. tuation of Judge of the Insolvent Debtors' Court, lating their established rules and usages. Could it lately held by Mr. Serjeant Palmer ? Ile had receiv. be said that the House then paid no attention to those ed a letter from a person confined for debt, in the Petitions, or could it be denied that those Petitions King's Bench, which informed him, that many indi had then a considerable influence? An Honourable viduals were at present detained in that prison, in Gentleman had asked, was it decent for the House consequence of the office of Judge of the &solvent to reject the Petition of the City of London, on Debtors' Court being vacant. such ground as had been suggested ? lie should ask, Lord CASTLEREAGH could not give any seas. was it decent in the City of London to talk to that factory answer on this subject. Great difficulty House of the corrupt state of the representatioti ? was originally found in selecting a proper person foe If such language had come from a small obscure place the situation ; and, he suposed, the difficulty in the country, he should not by any means feel so still existed, which would at once account for the strong an objection, as from its coming from the City delay. of London. If it was stated, that Petitions from so Mr. WILBERFORCE said, considerable hat& respectable a body as the City of London were en- ship had been sustained by debtors, iu consequence 50 I•.i --57 0 1 'f' e tar mincing tu reixivr ri.— resperrauie a uouy as sue Lorry or bonuon were en- any 1141 U UCCII DUMUIIIIGIJ uy nonuse, 1.4 k.Ult•ol:IUVIIIAT respectable body of indivi- titled to peculiar attention, then he would say, that of the decease of Mr. Serpent Palmer. They s ere e had discovered, was per- it became that body to be attentive to use proper and obliged to give fresh notices, and were subjected to . iguage. lie denied that it decent language in their Petitions. He wished dis- a variety of expences. • Tas Bill any more than as tinctly to express that his reason for voting for the PROPERTY TAX an expressed of the weak rejection of the Petition, was not that it was a Peti- , The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER of Ministers in plunging the Lion against a Money Bill, but because he conceived, moved the Order of the Day for the House resolving shout first endeavouring to that in its language it was a gross insult to the [louse, itself into a Committee on the Property Tax. Sir F. BURDETT saw nothing in the language of Gen. GASCOIGNE rose, in pursuance of his 1, that if the Petition merely this Petition that was a bit stronger than had been notice, to move that an instruction be given to the sstile to his Majesty's Go- aced in many Petitions which had been received bY Committee, to amend the Bill, hy exempting from 'e no objection to its beteg t h at H ouse . A s to t h e c h arges w hi c h i t containA I " () M l6 ' militar y and "'"`" I officers, On foreign however, that it distinctly against the system of representation by which the service. The individuals whom it wes the object of NZ eo nomine, as it stood House was now constituted, he apprehended the re- his motion terelieve, ought, be conceived, iii pre. 3 that persuasion he thought jection of the Petition would have rather the effect Terence to any other class of persons, to be ea. Consistently with the forms of impressing those opinions more generally on the elnPted from the operation of the Property Tax ; minds of the people out of doors. • and he would not have brought forward a proposi- i ELT did not think that the i titan for that p ur p ose if he did not feel , in pp, Mr. GRENFELL opposed the receiving of the corn- er in form or substance, in- , intended as an insult to that P e tition,House as he conceived that the language of it was lm'n, he believed, with every Gentleman who heard . louse. The only constitu-. him ' and that it was a case which merited the deepest . Ihe grievances of the public lattention. He should divide the military service Mr. LYTTLET rejec ti onON thought that if the 'etition. This Petition had I into two parts—the active service in the field, and but he denied that it had of this Petition upon those grounds should be drawn the colonial service in garrisons abroad. Now, . • into a precedent, it would exclude m a ny other Peti- . ncnme Tax, save what waslet the House look to the situation of the officer , lions that the subjects of this country s ti uct of his Majesty's Mini. had a right to : when he is sent out on foreign serv i c e — p e r h aps to 4 1 ty and misconduct it spoke p resent to the House. ! places where the tax falls on him with accumulated \ galling terms. : Mr. WORTLEY thought it ought not to be re- ' weight, in consequence of the rate of exchange k- id, there was no doubt but , jetted. He had seen other Petitions received which ' ing against this country. A Captain going abroad list inctly referred to the In- i were fully as strong in their language. I has an allowance of 221.-1 Subaltern 81. 15s. This House, and prayed that his Mr. LOCKHART was for its rejection. He was by ne means adequate to the expences which t not be permitted to pass thought it was unquestionably an insult to the these individuals incurred. Out of this small sti- tto this however, that he so House, to tell them that they were grossly inetten. pend, they were under the necessity of paying their a lines in the beginning of : tire to their duty, and that they had no sympathy mess-money, and also of providing themselves with moidered one of the most 1 with the people. They were told also in this Peti- camp-equipage and clothes. But, the fact was, on the House, the Coneti.ition, that their conduct had rendered the right of that a Subaltern could not take the field under art , that had ever beets offered' petitioning nugatory. If this language was not in- expence of 381. and a Captain of SO?. This difri- isuiting to the House, he did not know what could be cutty was stated to Government ; and it was agreed denied that there was any considered as an insult. The Livery of London to tallow officers going abroad, two months pay Ilion, or any thing iucon- had appeared to arrogate a sort of right to legislate its advance. But, whets they arrived at their the House to receive. Ito public opinion its this country. He was sorry, place of destination, how were they situated? It , .d that the Petition substan- ; however, to observe of late, that sentiments he- was a notorious fact, that for six months afterwards, and objected to the Income' quently emanated from that Body, not only hostile they rarely received a farthing. The pay of the . . House. Ito the Representatives of the People in Parliament, troops on the Peninsula, was frequently from four d that if this was a Petition l but extremely dangerous to the Constitution. to six months in arrear. And, when the Officers on .. ar the consideration of the i Alderman ATKINS believed that the sentiments that service were obliged to purchase a horse. in. to be received. He denied, stated in that Petition were only the sentiments of a stead of getting one for 181. the sum allowed, they lie case, and he would even I few of the Liverymen, and he was convinced that were obliged to pay a most extravagant price. Evert a (Curtis) if those who had , the great majority of the Livery highly disapproved a mule could not be procured for less than one or said it was a Petition against ,of them. Believing that they were but the senti- two hundred dollars. They were compelled to boy meats of a few, he hoped that the House would not at this extravagant rate, or else to leave their bag. ' Certainly." think it necessary to its dignity to reject it. gage behind them. The course of exchange, which wed the reception of the Pe- , Alderman C. SMITH drew a very different con. was even now 25 per cent. against this country, 1 clusion from that which the Hon. Alderman who also operated to the disadvantage of Officers on In.. t the Petition ought to be spoke last had drawn. He thought that this was a reign service. It might be said, that their pay r that the (louse might be reason for rejecting it. : was transmitted to them, as if exchange was at rust upon it. Mr. PRESTON was for receiving the Petition. ' par—but it mast be allowed, that the existence D thought the Petition ought Mr. SUMNER. was for rejecting it, on the ground of an unfavourable state, woisid have. a very great , that it was insulting to the House. 41s to the Yeti- effect in raising the price of every species of neces. ;ht there was nothing in the lions on the Cora Bill, the City of London should easy. As the pay of Officers ivas net 'adequate to event its being brought up. I recollect that they had prophecied that the immediate meet their expences, they wet obliged to call on 1, he never knew a Petition , eff e ct of passing that Bill woult: be to raise the price their friends for assistance; ' Here, in the first s ground as that adduced of corn to SOs. a quarter. As their prophecy had place, they lost, by the unfavathaside state of the en, namely, that of its he- turned out to be completely unfounded, they might exchange, at least 25 per cestrilytich, added to Tax by implication. Ile ; suppose that upon that point the judgment of the 10 per cent. Income Tax, for • gross loss of r that the Petition should be j House was at least as good as theirs. An Hon. 3 5 per cent. on every hundred itwitistds drawn by i Alderman (Alderman Atkins) had said, that the sen- them from this country. The ti4len he should reed in the propriety of the j timents of this Petition were only the sentiments of submit to the House, was founded oat-Parliamentary' p, in order that the House ! a few of the Liverymen. He should then ask, where Papers. In 1688 and 1695, when tisk country wits twits. - were the many ?—.Were they piesent, or were they called on to contribute the means olcarry Lig on rs understood it to be the! not present ?—lf they were absent, why were they the war under William and Mary, a tax was pro. where a Petition was pre- absent—and if they were present, why did they not posed, which came as near as possible {o- As traduced in the Ways and express their sentiments by their votes?--If those Property Tax. It applied to landed propeetts r -: . it should be rejected. were really the sentiments of a few of the Livery, to profits and income of almost every descriptioe,— brought up and read. he should like see their signatures, that he might There was but one exemption from the cigffs'Oon of ved that it should lie on the know who they ware, and what was their situation in this tax—and that was, the pay of (: freers in th e s life. nary and army. Here it would he proper far the 1. of the EXCHEQUER Mr. W. SMITH observed, that if what had been (louse to consider what the pay of military (Mfrs . ise had heard the Petition stated about the Representation was to be considered was in the year 1695. The pay of a Lieutetimt . t. ieir judgment whether it did au insult to the House, he did not knew in what Colonel wes2then 17s. per . diem—the very same sum . . , . • ~ , ' . • W ' l 9 l I