The Statesman. — London, England, 1815-02-24 00:00:00

..4 4 r • •• r • t 1 ,- - .- . .. 1 - the 1 COS( thre read 1 to v sere wit! per had i; ... I : day ! - . it • roll tot - • t • ;I rep , [ mud or( Rig had the) exit notl ly r situ 4 coni , adoi •• t upo lilac r e a l r serh . lit ! . • • i I 6 • hum elm cool but L whit the lie that ti . , • 1• pub' pole ' 1 * i ‘''''' 0 coda Si _ 6' ;C row I ' i l l 2 ?00 A. 0 the 1 e • , t 1 • this occasion, highly well acquainted as they were with the learning and spirit of their profession. To the Noble Lord (Stanhope) who had wandered 60 largely into the subject, he would say, that though be had heard that Noble Lord tell British Judges be knew more of the law than themselves, he extremely doubted his knowledge of Scotchjlaw, and must with bold his reliance till he had satisfied his under standing. Lord STANHOPE explained. The Bill was then read, and the House ordered to be summoned for Tuesday, to go into a Committee of the whole House on the Bill. Lord SHAFTESBURY brought up a Petition from the Lord Mayor and Aldermen of London, against any alteration in the present system of Corn Laws.—Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. A variety of Papers were presented from different offices by persons at the bar, pursuant to the order of the House. Several Petitions were also brought up from the county of llgin and other places. praying for some alteiation of the Cora Laws. Mr. TREMAYNF brougat in his Bill for amending the Art of the 48th of the King, relative ro the maintenance of pauper lanatirs. width was read a fist time, and ordered to be read second oa Wednesday next. The Het:tone Electson Bill passed through a Committee. and the Report was ordered to be received to-morrow. The Bank Loan Bill was read a second time, and to be com mitted to- 'row. Mr. BROGDEN brought up the Report of the Resolutions relative to British Wines and Snu which was rend a dist time. PO'IR LAWS. Sir EGERTON BRIDGES rose, to give notice of his intention to move for leave to bring in a Bill, to alter the 13th and 14th Charles 11. for the better relief of the poor, and the 22d Geo. 111. for the snore effectual maintenance and employment of the poor, en Thursday, the 2d of March. EMPI DYNILNT ON BOARD THE HULKS. Mr. IIENNIF7I7 wished to enquire of the lion. Gentleman opposite (Mr. lio[ford) whether he pro.. posed to introduce any measure this Session re lative to the state of the prisoners on board the _ _ _ Mr. HOISORD said, the Act of Parliament would expire this Session, and he apprehended that the subject would then be necessarily taken up by Government. He had aba►►doned none of the opi. Mons he had entertained of the report produced by the Committee, which he thought might be made ap plicable to very valuable purposes. If uo alteration, however, should be proposed, he had no difficulty i►► saying, that he thought the existing system an ex tremely unfit one. Mr. H. ADDINGTON, as we understood, in timated that it was in the contemplation of Go ♦ernment to submit some alteration of the law at present. In a Committee of the whole House some Reso lutions were agreed to respecting Excise Licences. t On the motion of the CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER, the Bank Restriction Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed an Monday next. SLAVE TRADE. Mr. 11011.1sIER:;Isbed,beiorethe House should resume the consideration of the Corn Laws, to call their attention for a few moments to a subject con nected with the due execution of the laws enacted for the Abolitton of the Slave Trade. He had seen a pamphlet that attracted his attention, chiefly by the character and name assumed by its author, in which it was stated that three persons named Cook, Bra.die, and Dunbar, who had been convicted at Sierra Leo.te of slave trading, and sentenced to be transported, had been c.mfined on board the hulks at Portsmouth ; but that the Secretary of State, ever alive to the calls of humanity, had relieved them front the miseries of their situation. He had no rea. son to attach any particular credit to this statement, more especially as lie had cause to know that it we, accompanied by other statements positively erroneous, but it was at the same time desirable to know 'woe. ther a Secretary of State had interfered between a. convict and the law so as to prevent its due exe. cution. Mr. 11. ADDINGTON was perfectly ready to as. sure the House, that the statement, if sect+ as repro. seated by the lion. and Learned Gentleman, had not shadow of a foundation in fact. The truth of the tse was this : Petitions had been received from the the cef thi .free individuals in question, and representations made, soliciting an exemption from the heavy labour which they were condemned, on the ground of 'ere ill-health. This prayer had been complied 'h, the tact of their illness being verified by pro . authority. This was the extent of relief which lad been granted. Within these last three or four aye, however, information had been received, in- Iving various legal doubts, which had been referred . the law Officers of the Crown. Whenever their report should be received, it would he readily com lnicated, either privately to the Eon. Gentleman, on his notice to the House. Mr. HORNER thought the explanation of the .ight lion. Gentleman quite satisfactory. Whatever had been the guilt of the individuals, undoubtedly they were still objects of humanity, and if there existed but the shadow of a legal doubt, be hoped nothing would be done till those doubts were entire. removed. The pamphlet, however, to which he had uded, represented these men to have been illegally ivicted and also represented Government to hare 4opted that persuasion. It contained random ipon a Society of which he had the honour to know )uch, and made its conduct and proceedings for s series of years a subject of the most unqualified cs. mnies. After reading it, he had lost no time in .samining, with all the diligence and acceracy•he employ, the statements in question, and he had reason: to believe that these were not only erroneous, : that they had been made under circumstances gilds might have enabled the author, if he had made necessary enquiries, to know that they were so. had nqw the satisfaction to acquaint the House, ..at the African Institution, in consequence of this publication, were preparing an answer, point by point, to the misrepresentations so industriously cir culated. CORN !AMTS. Sir WILLIAM CURTIS presented a Petition 'ons.Colchester, signed by 0000 persons; including 00.faroprs, praying that no alteration be made to he present Corn Laws. Mr. BURRELL moved the Order of the Day for he loose resolving itself into a Committee of the THE STATESMAN. whole House, to consider farther of the Resolutions resi7ting,the Corn Laos, LO rd SOCELYN contended that the apiculture of Ireland enquired the protection of some legisla tive measure of this kind. That agriculture, by the aid it had contributed to our national resources, had materially assisted in the successful termination of the war. lie could never consider the country to be secure till w e wE re entirely independent of foreign supplies. Such was the distress in Ireland at pre sent, that in a letter which he had lately received from a most intelligent person, he declared that if any farm were now offered him rent-free, be should not venture to go to the expends of tilling it. Mr. FINLAY admitted this to be a question de manding the most extensive enquiry, and the most deliberate consideration. His own opinion, however, was decidedly, that with a view to an economical and an abundant supply, some restriction on foreign importation was indispensable.—[Hear, hear He was the more strongly of this opinion because that a certain moderate 'average price was the state of things most beneficial to the manufacturing into. , rest. If our laud went extensively out of cultiva lion, he could not see what security we could enjoy of a regular and certain foreign supply. He had presented during the last Session many Petitions against any change in the Corn Laws, but he was convinced he should best answer the views of the Petitioners, by giving his support to the Resolutions before the Committee. The lion. Member concluded with a va riety of observations iu favour of a relief to Um agri• cultural interest. _ _ Sir JOHN NEWPORT less dreaded the opposi. tion of political economists, whose power lay rather in their ability than in their another', that, be did i those who professed a desire to give protection to agriculture and yet narrowed its limits, and endea voured to delude those whom they professed to sup port. This class was like one of the two classes that opposed the abolition of the Slave Trade, and who really prolonged its existence under a pretence of desiring its gradual abolition. The mass of taxa- 1 Lion was an insuperable impediment to a great fall in the price of Corn. Unless that could be lessened, we could not hope to struggle in an equal cempeti doe with all the foreign growers in Europe. It was not fit for a great country to depend for its means of existence on foreigners. The protection of agricul ture in Ireland, was our chief resource. It could not be impressed too strongly upon the country that the tie between landlord and labourer was stronger in this country than in any other: here our land. holders actually live on their estates, but it was not so in France. Those topics, introduced into this discussion, which tended to draw lines of distinction between different classes, might have been well i spared. The interests of all classes of the commit ' nity should be viewed as bound up together, and connected together for the public good. He la. mented to hear it said, that there was an attempt to force this measure, whereas it received a full and fair , discussion. Exaggerations would naturally creep into such debates ; but it was the business of Mem bers not to inflame the people, but to moderate their feelings. The object of this measure was only to give to agriculture the same sort of protection which was afforded to other branches of industry said cons.. merce. In looking at the state of the labourers, he presumed, that others besides them in the maonfae. luring classes were contemplated. Of the popula. tion of England 4,500,000 were connected with agriculture; and in Ireland four millions out of her population of six millions. The increase of Irish agriculture supplied England when she could not get a supply elsewhere. lo 1808, 1800, and 1810, there were 1,800,000 quarters of wheat imported from Ireland into England, whereas just before those periods there was only 975,000. In 1812, 1813, and 1814, the quantity imported rose to 2,170,000 quarters. In the Irish population, the linen trade counted only one million. The four millions of agriculturists were clothed, and bad their bowies furnished, chiefly by the manufacturers of England; and thus Ireland returned three-fold to England, for what she received for her supplies of Corn. The interests of the two countries must be one and the same. The absentee remittances were a source of great advantage to British manufactures. It was na tural that there should be many absenlees from the circumstances of birth, relationship, early habits, and a variety of connections. It had been asked why the Irish should feel so much mileage.% when the decrease of her exports was only 30,000 quar ters ; but she had also decreased 210,000 quarters iii foreign exports to Spain, Portegsl, &e. A country like Ireland might feel difficulties, even though exportation increased. There were many farmers who had not capital to enable them to bold back from the market, and must, therefore, sell, whether for profit or loss. They must go to market, even though it was going to their ruin. He was con vinced it was en essential thing even for our manu facturers that we should be independent of foreign countries. The real strength •of our country was concerned in it, and in every view of our interests it was necessary that a legislative measure should be enacted. Mr. FIIANIELAND, LEWIS admitted that ha had opposed, the measure of last year • and did not shrink from the charge of haviagehang ed his opinion. He haft given the.subjezt all the consideration he coisla ; and was inclieed to afford some protection to the agricultural interest. He could do no more than to form , his judgment upon a diligent investigation. . Certeinly, if something was not done numbers would be "exppsed to eerious danger. The interests and haw portence of agriculture were greater thaa those of any of our other branches of industry. It way. therefore ' peculiarly incumbent on Parliament .te provide for and to protect them. It was stated that the average price throughout France might be tau* at 465. per quarter. The depreciation of our our. rency he considered as a great cause of the present emtlarrassmentr. The discouragement to our agile culture arose, not from the quantity of corn import.' ed ; but from the reduction pf prices, which stood reduce our own supply. A small quantity imported had the effect of throwingdowa our prices. If, for a qate, we were ;applied with large goaalliles of Frepch corn, say at 455. $ it would produce a rod effect op our agricultural interosta, and• occilhisser wt. ti:nately a rerylsiors which ;gold tharinA bet sticalated• The relief now asked was an faspedimeut to the las. postilion of foreign core. A greater fitil bockats" peration of these thi n , place than the mere imports could j , to wait . a nd f see the operation of peace, awl s„ • ustify • and x perm was more particularly evident in the fall of barle th y is • of takin g off the Property Tax. That ta postponed at least six or se ll state e ffie lo o th f e o p e n s c u e b o jec e t ve h r a y d a b r e ti e c i l l e. Ile wished the consid„ e ,,,., Some e wa re r li ha ef d see ch m it e g d y r o e c a ca so si n o a n b ed le. th e Th pres e coarse of . and tha t in the mean time further e • enquiry should time as almost entirely to impede importation ; tpit difficulty : the events of the war were such for a long, weeks till we could see the o °Pim+. .rstade. But he was so anxious to-fethear from was the subje c t of s uch • • posed to a competition with all foreign growers. II t , now by the arrival .of peace, our farmers were exe oil', tu e' a course w hich pus- the country, or from throwing obstacles in the way general wish, that tie would rather take up e l , elofwthaes pro. . of tbe thought sibleco t i h is e i • s r te a n te ti t y o m b i e rh fi e r r e solely the protection of subje..ct as now proposed , though the objections k• W ~c posed measure, which was gshreoautidobbjeectas Our own agriculturists against a grea t impending pressed upon' him ss ere not not felt to be o f a e w, t danger. In attempting to ascerts % the precise limit, with the majority. The question was, wheth er e l , measure should be permanent or temporary ; h t , i ,,,, he must confess he met great di ffi culty. Great vari- ations in prices existed in various parts of the ki ng- at first view inclined to prefer that it should be te,„ dom. Grain from Northumberland, and further porary, but upo e . rence: for he was sure th a t if t, n further consideration thought i• ~ north, had, for instance, to bear all the charges of matter of indili shipping, which must be added to the price in the measure should lie found inconvenient it would i *. 'London markets. Ile thought it of importance to come only . p te mporary ;—[ hear , orary ;—[hear, hear-1—and o,ro be no difficulty of getting rid of it, if all I reconsider and amend the mode of taking the averages, would r a e e , which in the present way were often fallacious ; and ,of the country called out for such riddanc e . T he ' he wished to know whether any better plan was in- l best way was to proceed to the material s u bj ect of di. ' tended. In each of the twelve districts, lie under- I cussion, namely, the price ; and every man wu tu i d that the returns were directed to be made ac-stoo agree, that the lower that could be fixed the been cording to the quantities sold, which was stated in • would the object be answered. It was tick ems led •, i . the returns, and to the average of the selling prices. that the farmers had had a good time of it durincr IL I They were then sent to the Corn Inspector, who ar- war e and he was glad of it : but let them reco li e , ranged them from the prices of all the twelve returns. that . the most flourishing times of our agriculturell:l This was net a correct mode of taking the averages, been times of the greatest importation ever k nowl , I •n In his county some gentlemen took so viole n t „, owing to the difference of quantities and prices u different places. In the maritime parts of Wales, alarm at the state of agriculture that they called s and in Cornwall, the price had been generally Uglier Meeting, which, at first, they called of the coudg, than in London. High prices, when but small quan- but afterwards altered that title, in Which they passe& ~ Ipie L . tities were sold, gave false averages. The average resolutions which they. sent to every town in n should be taken from the whole quantities through- shire, without procuring a single signature to them, out the kindom. It was very desirable that the We knew what had become of the Kent Moeting, average should he a fair one ' • and for this purpose when an hundred and odd gentlemen were forced t o the mode of taking it should be changed. The law withdraw to an inn and vote a Petition. Tmfatme,,, of 1804 had not yet been carried into es,r.7raiion.— generally speaking, instead of attending Meetings,were Such an alteration might bettiiiiivalent to an increase waiting patiently the result of the wisdom of the 'of duty of three or four shillings. He should rather House, and were not troabling it with Petitions.— prefer 765. to 80s. If they took Ws. they ought to , The Right Honourable Gentleman proposed the sum look at all the circumstances. In making a new of 80s.—an immense rise from the present price.... ' enactment, he thought the House and the country , We should be cautious not to raise the price of cora might look with satisfaction at the progressive im- beyond the reach of the wages of the people. If the provement of our Corn Laws from the time of Bill passed, the system of paying the people's wages Charles 11. when it was prohibited to buy corn and out of the poor rates must be had recourse to. Ws sell it again, down to the present moment, when i this desirable in the time of peace? In times of ne. there existed a perfect freedom of the trade between : cessity it was perhaps the best method. The lion. England. Scotland, and Ireland. 1 Gentleman says, " No :" would he then raise the I Lord PROBY supported the resolutions for the , labourer's wages to 20s. or 30s. per week ? Would .sake of the agricultural interest, and therefore for I not wheat immediately upon passing the Bill rise to the the interest of every man in the British isles. The 1 utmost limit of importation ? This year it certainly Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Baring) was himself a striking would. To average the price of 80s. the best wheat instance of the advantages which were possessed by I must sell for 100 s. at least, or 110 s. This was a fact merchants's eons, and he saw no reason why the sons which could not be disputed. Was this desirable, and daughters of farmers should not share them. or necessary to protect the farmers ? The mi. i Mr. CALCRAFT was sorry that an:,- measures on dence before the Committee was evade entirely.— ' the subject of the corn laws were pressed at this 1 They wanted to make a case, and they have made a time ; but as they were, be should not refrain from case. He looked at it merely as such : there was no entering into the consideration of them. The Hon. I cross-examining ; the witnesses staled what a plough Member (Mr. Baring) had talked of large tributes ' costs, and what a horse. This was not the ways 1 which had been paid to the agriculture of the eoun- farmer went to work ; ho might as well charge the try : he (Mr. C.) though one of the landed interest, fare of a hackney-coach. He . thought the price of did not feel that he hail received any proportion of. 80s. was too much. The House was pateicaterly this tribute, and considered himself under no more I bound to discuss the subject with coolness and ma obligations to the manufacturing interest than that i deration, end without prejudice or passion,oentlting 'was to him for the produce which he bought of them.. their view solely to the best and most important ia• He had also talked of a want of connection between . terests of the country. When he said this, he Mend thelanded gentlemen and their tenants. Now, who- Ito be understood that in thoie interests it was hie ever knew any thing of the state of this country, or i intention to include Ireland, now so immediately had even travelled through it, must he aware that and intimately interwoven with us that it would he ' our country gentlemen lived at least half the year absurd to suppose the interests of both countries amongst their tenants in the very centre of their were not the same. He was sorry, therefore, Wiwi . estates; and, therefore, he could not subscribe to the that the state of Ireland in respect to this measure Hon. Member's opinions on this point, any more than was not so prosperous as he could wish ; at the sere he could, on the other hand, to those of the sup- time be must say Ireland ought to be fairly and imo porters of the resolutions, that the price of the pro- partially considered in all its bearings on both sides ' duce of land was unconnected with its rent. It was l of the question. The House would recollect that impossible to say that rent was not a component part Ireland had no poor rates, no property tax to con• of the price of the commodity, when we looked at the tend with—and as to the article of labour, they were ' rents of lands in Scotland or freland,*—when we saw able to procure. it at a much lower rate than could one man renting 420 acres, at 25001. per annum, possibly be done in this country. It would also he and in the estimated calculation of his profits at remembered that the witnesses who had been ea' 50001. allowing half that sum as paid to his landlord. emitted before the Committee on 'this subject of prices What was the reason that the comparatively small were surveyors and farmers, who could not be said importation of corn this year had produced so great to be entirely unprejudiced. With setipect to him. lan effect ? The French corn was so much better than self, he thought in regard to tht prices that 72c. our's, that the millers would not boy the latter unless which was 9s. a bushel, would be a fair price to the they could get it almost for nothing. This was the farmer, and ought to satisfy the wishes of the most I reason why the importation this year had been pro- sanguine supporters of the measure. He bad no ductive of a mischievous effect en the price of corn io doubt in his own mind but that price weeld be a respect to the farmers. But what was its effect upon fair remuneration to the Irish farmer., and woodsy f the other classes of men ? He had had an opportunity answer the purposes the House had in view, whi :il‘ of asking a farmer what he could have gotten for his was to make an experiment intended to glee inferior wheat, if it had not been for the French relief to the sufferers in Ireland. In this cow importation, and the answer was, 66 Whatever I had , try, though there might be considerable degree of , asked." He was thereforeof opinion, that the importa- distress, yet it was a consolation to reflect that such tion was a most salutary and beneficial supply. He a misfortune was not universal. tf the propositin I heartily wished the country tobe enabled to feed it se lf. were modified in the way he had stated, he thought Barley this year was a mere drug ; and the exports lit might be made pal a t a ble t o a ll pertles. He was of it equalled the impo r ts. The reaso n was th a t Go. sorry to say that the measure of shutting the touil Ivernment was no longer a customer; and the tax, on ; agiinst importation had operated to raise the priced malt being so immense that the peasants of the Hon. 1 grain, and be was m u ch af ra id t h e genera li ty o f pee - Gentleman's Gentleman' neighbourhood were prevented from ' Ve in this country wou ld a t tr ib ute t h at v i se to this I i procuring that beverage which was tic, gratUrtil and ill. In what he s a id on thi s po i nt h e was no t ac . ' •proper for them : it was no t appli e d t o thi ne p ur . ! tuatedby any'prejudice in favou r o f e i t h er th e la u ded I poses. no lion. Gentleman (Me. C.) took a prat- lor commercial interests, but spoke the unbiassed see tical view of the question, and was of tipinioa, that I timents of his own mi n d. I t was true h e li ve d on I neither the legislature, nor the Government, bad a rents, and might, therefore, be supposed to have a right to interfere with the trade of any particular I personal interest; but he could assure the House, clam of men further than suds interference might be was not guided or swayed by any such bearing on contribute to the benefit of the community. If he the question. He had heard mane objections mide could bring his mind to believe, that this was the to the interests of the Members of the House of Corn , case in the present instance, he should think that the mons, but never before understood they had been I Committee were warranted ire interfe r i ng even t o th e I cons id ere d as too landed; be that it t h ere as might , extent proposed by the resolutions. Last - Session he I were certainly various other interests of a different I had the good fortune to oppose the measures on this description fully adequate to check the landholders; Isubject, and he had received the thanks of the far- and if the House p rocee d e d i n a s l ow, co n s id er ate, i wetland others in his neighbourhood f or hi s 4ote.— and dispassionate m anner , he had no doubt but the I The question now came before the Committee more' coeclusioa of their deliberatioue would be highly sq. favourably in one respect, inasmuch as the distress of tisfactory to the c oun t ry at l arge. Ab ove a ll, he the arable farmers was now greater than it w as t h en . f wished them to pay attention to the wants and neces. The envoi,/ this Session bad. been carried on in a cities of the middling and lower orders of the comma f more elaborate and temperate manner, and with more oity. • • .. .ability and. research than ow the former occasion ; Sir N. COLTIIUIIST said it had been industrious but still tbere Was far from that perfect body of in- ly spread abroad that this measure would increase formation before the tommittee which It was right the utter o f bread , thought 1 7 h e so, no man would 'there - should-be. Another objectionlaf to . the par.' be More ready to . vote a ga i ns t it th an hi mse lf. In . Oracular mode in whit:lathe subject Wes taken up. We saying this file trusted he should be believed , w hen bad now entered upon a new order of things : peace it was recollected that he was the Representative of a oas w,hardly yet completed ; .th e f armer w as et l east H e , populous a n d commercial city.' trust ed the 'llscure for the neat three months. We hid never House would, on this occasion, give, by its Grni been so situated before, the price of corn never haw. ness, a proof to all tine world, that it was determined tog yet owe down to the minimum. He preferred to afford protection to agriculture. • Iheefr eee period./ or sel l e thin ;t honk{ °PPm. itltlun the w ay ce up the ns of w e i e :, t ether !h, : he l a ,, I be t e „ wed ; at if t:, g ould hp. tnd the re II clasp ce. Th e tct of ssoind he heft/ nwledgei uring 14 recoiled !tate LI know, iolent gq called ; C couttig, Y Passed ► D inet. to there. Meting, forced to fatmei l , ings,were 11 of the I the earn price..- 1 of cora If the es wages o. Ws,