The Statesman. — London, England, 1820-07-07 00:00:00

Lic.a•— • a tl t. tl Ts t I al ti 1 n tl tl 71 ri A rF t; It t! tt . P 1 vi it a . tr lu 1 el t) 4 le c't t el • ti • 441 st Yl tl t. vs 11 ni at vi /11 111 I '4 th t • in P' I , ee b< to Je P I fo 11 11 at Y t 1 at of it LI *l4 of f i Ma th M (if cji 1 S . th i ( 4 1 t bl • a sai jc 4 • pe Of hi WI Vi 111 / 1 1 • ALI • was left nothing to object, either matter of fart. or matter of law. But as to the second p • t. the time. this was but the one point on which hr was p•. ricitt,4l address their Lordships, whereas he had naturally thought, in the first laistance, that there were two, which mistake ■rose from the mode, haying been .:c -pirated from the time, as a distinct and a‘pbstatutial 'wilt; but if be was to go into an argument, to prove hat their Lordships should chan t .te the mo•Ie, of pro- .ceding before the second reading, he slinnltl he stout by the ittler44 the House, according to which, when strictly enforced, Counsel could not be bean( agallist r: until the second reading. Ile was coast.• ettently, to speak as to time, and that only. He was not allowed to urge those .weighty considerations to !heir Lordships whit), might counteract the effect of the charges scspendeti over his illustrious client, and which were, perhaps, susptutled for her absolute de s,-action : but the very existence. of charcss, which r.:re not allowed to be allsVl cred. made it. the interest ): her Majesty to require in,tier in the speediest man e••:. She asked for no delay—she was read►• to rattier wt once upon her ilutenee, and to repel the chargeet'in 'Fi • lieport and the preamble of the Hill—and to prove jai iu the whole, and every part. a tissue of nnpar r►i:rled falselisioil. She called upon their Lordships with an earnest. a presvina.t. and, he might 'at, r, eta• : afoul %vier, fur open and i ttttt 'rebate justice. She was preparel to enter him her defence that eseniug if it ►ias their Lordships' pleasure, or to-morrow•; and in her tertian' he laid to require that the seco►sd re-ailin t r of Wight be brought on as soon as possible for the purpose of throwing it out. He spoke on this - poirt I►rincipaily- from his on n feelings as an indi vidual, and he had to implore their Lordships not to interpret any thing that hr might say under the pre.- snre of these in his own disfavour or that of his I Iltiv- trioutt Client. He must deprecate tbeir lortlybips loyinc any stress upon any thing that resulted from unfounded rutnour or interested misrepresentation. 14r trusted nothing 14 these kinds could operate to the prejudice of his Client in that place. front whence equal jet4tice should emanate to the lowest as well as to tH highest individual lu the realm. Hod send she had novm. risen hit h er than to the humblest of the Kinr's sulojects She would, then, in snelt a rage, have those benefits allowed to the meanest—she would, witl reference to tr . ol, have been furnished with a cu,y of the indictment. a list of the witnesses, and all •;.• other ad%antacei which the equal laws of Eng- ;as J extend to all under their protection. The evi olk•ro.-e against her would base been exansined in a C•otrt of J..stier, a nd she would have had the benefit of the verdict of a Jury of her country. Nome of those persons nould have been the followers of party, or influetseA by eratitude for favours received, or in rttenced by the hope of fivours in expectation; but sh! wirthl be tried by Inelre honest, upright. and im partial £t i Surfs would have been the lot of his Illustr;ous t liens, bad her famines been among the husub!e't—lout her present very exalted station t. nled to destitute her of all these fair and legal ad vantages. Recurring then to the %object of time, the Learned Counsel repented her Majesty's wish that the sliartest interval possible might elapse between that .tight an 1 the second reading of the Bill, and was in anxious hopes of its being yet got rid of. In another vi•tw something might transpire front evidence which tray concise! tl.eir Lordships to act as Judges in a cri i.riweeiling. Nor copal& they, he thought, as yet terse made up their minds there could be no ins peseh•rctit in the case. The Statute of Edward 111. might not br acted upon, yet they nay have to con sider n farther any circumstance may not hare hap pened at Malls , Liibrainu. or solar other place within thr King's dominions, that may give a new turn to !h.- cis age. 'flu• Lulu, enaxertiLott retuarLed, that the House h-►d already determined upon its eourse of proceed ing, and the Counsel WAS nut to state what he sup po=ed the lluu•e would do in a possible contingency which he :night imagine. Baouwiam maJe a few observations in the war of explainiog the line of argument he was pro eeeding with. _ _ The Loan CHANCELLOR said, the House is used to be just, and it Lill down the rule in the present T 2,40, !I order that the Counsel should not be unjust. Mr. Bativonau proceeded. and repeated her Ma• jesty's anxious wish that no further ilelav might take place. 111. censured the charges advance d at Neuilly as filse atul unfounded: and further, they were false. foul, auJ most malignant. Hr felt confident the Hotta could never make itself a party iu curls a case. He heard they bad ordered the Attorney-Ureteral to att-ntl; still he could not think that any thing be yond public justice was Anted at. lie was at preiblit arsttiog upon the question of terms merely. The pre, amble of the Mill. he again insisted, presentede limey of foul :sad gross falsehood, because If a tenth gored was believed, it would have been the Jitr of ;mien Advisers to come forward long ago. The Bishop of Exx•rea ben rune to order. 0/ 4 .41/! sisted the Counsel bad gone bevonel the lide'ef argm . went assigned to him by the eviler of the House. Lord Itot.t.smn, to teem:hies epee the interference of the Rev. Prelate; (*rafted. tie Spiritual Lard diode have gone a little further, and shows' bow died/Mend' Counsel hail t one beyond the tier prescribed. • Mr. Illatovuusat then resuneeil, and pressed•tbe nets, line of argesseent be was engaged in,at sewitlee !her length. Ile repeated' tine principal wish of heft Majesty, in thus recurrfili . totheir Lordships, *sale deprecate all farther delay, and, to a4juern thee to ales eidu upon the Bill in expeditiously as the forms ei their Lordships Heger weed' admit' her prieeipal object being to secure to iterself that which the bias' blest of the King's subjects were entitled to, sagasiy, full. fair, and impartial trial. ' • Mr. VENN am followed, bet not at equal length, mat, ably supported the arguments advanced by her Ma jesty principal Law Officer. - After the Learned Counsel had withdrawn, The Earl LIVIMPOOL rose, and observed, the goes tioa as arising out .f what was advalseed by the Com pel, wbetbOr they shield go is the coins derided apes. or berry on the seat ineponsat stage of the Dili in 14 b o ws? For she latter he *might ao eileiptate grated whoever was laid. Os a former disentoolost, the later val beeves the first and second millers of Divorce Mills was s V e rt, bet with referees* to a eau et WI VMS' , he thlil a re no esseeeetaly delay ovo be id gives. Ned he diodes* awed, th* is THE STA' 11A N. Monday next, he should propose the day which he dressed proper for the secose.l reading of the Hill; that course he still meant should be pursued, anti be trusted a full at;entlance would take place. He repeated, that on Mender next hr sentild propose a day fur the second . reading of the Bill in tptestion, and moved that for that day the Lords should be . Lora iiULLAN 11 said, the Noble Earl opposite had pro posed to postpone the further consideration of this pith wet. The Queen. by her Counsel, had prayed at their Bar, that the trial might proceed with all possible speed; and he now, 'mkr such eirennostances, called upon Ministers fur the sake of their own character. for the sake of her Majesty, and fur the sake of the coon- I try, to suffer no tinuereseary delay to interpose in toppo siiian to the wishes of her Nlajesty. When the Noble Earl talked of Hills of this description, he wished to know what was his meaning. lie wished to know to what description of Bills this was held to belong ? Was it a Hill of Divorce, or one of Pains and Penalties If the Noble F.arl wished to regulate his conduct by p rece j en o, hr must look to former Bills, anti to the manner in which they had been bronchi in. If he did this, be would find that all delay after a Bill hail been ltrotaht in. was unusual. Theft appeared to be some foundation for our of the reasons urged by the Noble Earl for the delay intended to he proposed. If prore...led with im mediately, they could not have the benefit of the assist ance of the J 'laze* of the land, which was. t anxiously to be wished for on this :oniony important occasion. This was the only 'rood reason that he had heard sug gested for the course intended to he parental. It, how ever, appeared to hint, that when they were about to in stitute a punishment not sanctioned by any existing law. they ought at least to give the accused eyrty advan tage that could consistently he afforded. Ile called upon the Noble Lonl to say what he meant by " necessary arrangements ?" Did he mean to say that time was wanted to enable Ministers to bring forward further itnesses ? Was it to be understood, that the evidence which had been laid before the Select t' 000000 'titter was not now thought sufficient to bear out the case—that it was not sufficient to carry them through the inquiry: If it was intended to bring forward additional evidence. this ought to be so stated by Ministers. Unless this were the ease, he could not see why they should wish for fur ther delay. 31inisters bail been in the possession of the evidence laid before the Secret Committee for more than a year. and if this were deemed sufficient, he could not see why they should not be able to proceed, when such was the wish of the accused, to try the merits of the question without delay, instead of asking as they now did for time to make further preparations. that had.excited snob general interest was pending, fiat an . attempt on the part of \Buisler, to captivate by gaudy pageantry would provoke resentment, and .bring down kapott them general execration. It would not be well that they . should place the King in a situ ation of pomp anti parade. while his Consort, the sub ject of an awful inquiry, awaited the judgment to be pronotauced on her case. Ile hoped that a different course wri4lll Iw pursued, and that lie should nut have the necessity of brineing this subject again before the House; and that the King, if still ealvised to urge his Coronation at this time, would consult the wishes of the people by departing fr o m such fatal councils. Earl titary hoped that what had first faJleu from his Noble Friend would be attended to by Ministers. He was persuaded, that expressing the painful feelings he had on the subject. his Noble Friend but expressed the opinion of every feeling man in that House and the country. Ile thought the Noble Earl ought to have been prepared to state the course meant to be pursued. and he did not think tlutt it would' be too 1111101 to urge the Noble Earl to state distinctly what were his views even that night, when lie called for de lay ; at all events, by the next alsy, be ought to be ready to enter into an explanation. The dispositions and arrangements to whit.:l he has! alluded, could only depend on one of three things—the time required fur , producing witnesses to support the Bill—ehe steps access try to ensore so full an attendance in that House as the importance of the case demanded at this period of the year---sand the arrangements necessary to securing the presence of the Judges to assist with their judicial advice, without which it would not be safe fw them to proceed. Now, he would ask, which j of these circumstances could Le pointed out which had not been long, or which might not have been lung tinder the consideration of the tioverninent, and on which they ought not to have been prepared to come to a decision at once. With respect to the witnesses, as their testimony had been in the hands of! his Majesty's Ministers fur the last tart-Ise months,! he st suppose that they were all ready to come forward whenever they were wanted. With r:.spect to the attendance in that House, it was certaitilv of import:titre that a full attendance through the long and important inquiry about to be instituted should be Secured; and this might be a matter of some dim- enter at this advanced period of the year. But the; difficulty anal inconvenience of attending the lionse, their Lordships, he was satisfit:al, would feel as nothing when pet in comparison with the discharge of their duty ; and on this point the Noble Earl and his Col !reeves aught already to have come to a decision. For tile Judeee, the arrangements fur the eirenits having alreidy been made, it seemed almo . st impoisible that the House could have their assistance if the inquiry , were brought on -immediately. He then natc e d the periods at which the Judges were to be at various parts of the country, and sheaved that, without interfering with• the whole course of the administration of justice, it was impossible to procure the attendance of the Judges at this period of the year. This, he thought, an additional reason why the Noble Earl should be called on to-morrow, to state what were the circum stances under which it was intended to prosecute the inquiry, and the time and mode of proceeding. He hoped the Noble Earl would be prepared to state his reasons on the following day instead of on Monday. He could not think it possible for him to be unpre pared to do so, though it might be inconvenient, sad he therefore called upon him to make his statement to morrow, instead of on Monday, that the House and the seaward party might, without delay, be pat in pos session of the manner in which it was determined to proceed. Feeling that It was of importance that this information should be given without loss of time, he %humid move, as an amendment, that their Lordships be summuned for to-morrow. The Earl of lavearitob said, the Bill now before their Lordships was a Bill of Pains and Penalties, and wholly different from a euinniun Divorce Bill. The same deliberation was nut necessary in a co kkkkk ton Di , vurce %there an individual prayed for relief, as iu a case like the present, where the fate of the Queen of England was to be decided, and where the course of proceedings so deeply affected the honour of the 'rown, and the moral interest' of the country. This was not the ease of an individual, lint a State measure, brought forward for the reErf of a nation. To him it did nut appear that it on,:ht to excite surprise when it was proposed to defer till Monday finit:g the second read ing of the Bill. It was to be remembered that her Majesty's Counsel, who had that night prayed that the trial might proceed with all possible expedition,' had, the last time they appeared at their Lordships' liar, desired that a delay of ten weeks might be al lowed to enable her Majesty to prepare fur bee de knee. lie begged that he might nut be understood to speak in any way disrespectfully of the Lea r.e4 Counsel who hail advised this course. 'I hey might be justified in calling for delay ust the former occasion, and yet have very good reasons fur pra)ing now that the trial might he prweeded with i diately. On Monday it would be fur their Lordships to consider whether they would prosecute the inquiry forthwith, or whether some (nether delay should take place. The importance of securing a full attendance on this oc casion, and of ascertaining when the Judges could he present, must be felt by every one: and these consi derations, after hearing her Majesty's Counsel at their Bar that night, would, he thought; make the House feel that it would be right to take till Monday to ik termitic on the way iu which it would be most de-1 sirable to proceed. ',The Earl of Livearoot. had no particular objection to to-morrow being named, but being persuaded, that whether the business were brought on as rapidly as the Queen's Counsel had desired that it should come on, or was put off till the Judges should return from the 4.ltcalts, whatever decision might be come to, the period at which the inquiry might commence would not be at all affected by the question, whether the I te ckiun should he taken to-morrow or on Monday. He therefeer could see no reason why the House should nut hare till Monday to determine on the coarse, which, under all the circumstances, it might be most advisable The ilarquis of LotstiowN, though not prepared to say that the trial might to go on immediately, was of opinion that twenty-four bouts ought not to pass be fore Ministers cattle to a decision whether they would. proceed to the trial forthwith or not. He wished them to consider whether the ends of justice would be pro moted by the course now suggested ; and, if nut pro-, slotted, whether it would nut be detrimental to them to interpose four days of unnecessary delay ? Having, hitherto had the good fortune to prevail on their Lord ships to agree with them in all they had proposed, he thought the Noble Earl, who now stood in the situation ... else Hons. ' of a public accuser. anal his colleagues, ought not to re- _-.,nun when 0- quire four•and-twenty hours to determine whether they ...ii should take ••'- 'would proceed with the inquiry immediately, or whe- I lion onelkt • tber a more tardy course would be preferable. Tarr . ought not to hesitate in deciding how this greet and portant business should be proceeded with one guy toiler than was necessary, and he therefore prayed the Noble Earl to consider if he could stet be prepared to-morrow to state what his view bl.the Inbject might be. Thejr Lordships, not being 1 is possession of all the circumstances of the caee,,could• NS decide--but the Noble Karl, being in pontos jihss of them, could--whether it would be right totem-' ply with the wishes of the Illustrious though accused i forsosage who was the subject of these proceedings. ;or whether a contrary course was to be preferred. A *lay of four days might materially interfere with the aOlssulance of the Judges. Hy Monday many, or all a them, would be departing to perform those duties which usually devolved upon them at . this period of the year. Under these circumstances he called upon the Noble Lord to say whether he would defer rousing is a decision on the point in question till Monday. The gad of CARNARVON put it to their Lordship. .what must be the feelings of the (wintry, if, after the steps which had been already taken, it should he ems skirted aesseussry for them to separate before they could determine what further should be dose? Mi nisters ought to be prepared to state what course It l was their loteation to take, and they ought to have no private motives fur postponing their decision os the part they were now to act. Hut there was owe baud ,pest now in preparation, which be thought might not The ~.stee balloted tor a Voiumitiee to try the me. , Ise' improperlypostptmeti. He hoped it would not be jthud the Petkiin "plait tbe return for the &wen aerposed 4 that the public were not to lost amused by •of Aberdeen. ' . ikleallidssi *ad led from the consideration of this XlseJ. • Mat i ltllllllllll saitt y . sow talsapiwehesaiellS ipeolee Arno like boos to a poppet-ahow. Ne hoped. having Joao gonad at to t h q wetke be gave yesterday. 814410 when a question of sock iripeneues, - ebd one he ttrtlM 111011 M os .11to ale s. opportoolty of tor- .:. to pursue. Earl Harr said, it might as well be derided to morrow as Monday. The Earl of I)aa:4l.er wished the House to proceed .to-sorrow to determine when the second reading of , the Hill should take place. lie thou4ht the Corona tion 4owlit to be postponed, and was sorry the Noble Lord on the Woolsack had not livened to what had fallen trans his Noble Friend ou the sohject t The loan CUANCELLOR begged the Noble Earl's pardon, hut assured him that he had heard every word that hod been uttered on that point.—(A laugh.) the Earl of DANNLIT proceeded to state that the • general impression out of doors was, that the Queen would tome out of the limitary libineilt. With this iuspressioll he put it to Ministers, what would be the .fed Hogs of the people when they saw• their Sovereign crowned alone. entertaining the opinion that his Iloral Corson ought to be crowned with him. He hoped his Noble Friend would not And it necessary to make a specific motion on this subject ; but he earnestly im plored the tiovernasent to consider of it, and to advise their Sovereign not to persevere in what were under stood to be his present inteations, as doing so might possibly lead to results to which be would not wore distinctly allude. • After a few words from Lord BRLOAraN and Earl duty, who declared it to be his intention to press his amessimmat, the Hesse then divided— "or Sart Grey's sweedweat . Acetast It as hiatoehy —47 The origlaaliastioa was thew carried, aad the Haase adjaarsed. 2., :.. -‘,. HOUSE OF COMMONIN. 71111: NIDAY, .kiLT 0. Phase • 1 . ; , . C ; ;'4 .... .-• 't • -.l* _*.t • • :lie CI • -i •• - is reefing it. He had by no m eans 1 the ii tit tension of emancipating suddenly and imus e di atrlr d slaves; such • measure wo u ld b e fraught vritkna chief, even to the slaves thems e l ves . Hi s object nub-- move an Address to his Maje s ty, prayin g t h at the to, lonial Legislatures should be directed to recoaside,no laws on this subject. Mr. CARTWRIGHT lmnlrlit in a Bill to regula r mode of removing Irish paupers from England land. He should now propose to read the Bill n e ,, , and let it lie over till nest Session. Mr. Honuousa said, he held in his hand a ph% on that important subjeet—Perliamentary M om was not signed by many individuals; indeed, n ail signed but by one only. namely, Mr. John Carter* The House itself was highly interested and 4 04 4 concerned in this question. Various Acts of Ni b metal had been passed to prevent the interfereared Peers in the election of Members of the House oft * , mons ; and at the eeeeee encement of every &w ash House passed a resolution, declaring such latch a high breach of privilege ; notwithstandin g e`„ l precautions, it appeared that there were at pr e* " less than 95 Peers who posers/led boroughs, or be en o influence, and by whose interest 196 Members ! " returned to the House of Commons. Such oilsto ne the statemeut contained in the petition. If thst aw meat was true, he entreated the House to iateek kik put an end to such a system, or to abandon the neda li of passing such a resolution as that whick . appeared on their Journals.—The petition NBA. read, and ordered to he printed. SOUTH AMERICA.--Sir R. Witsom, seein g I Noble Lord in his place, wished to ask whetheriten true that an authorised communication had hee l me i to his Majesty's Uovernment front the French limns. went, not only acknowledging the neutrality of Sena America, but also for placing a Prince of the Wig of Bourbon on the throne of that country. Thisese a question so nearly coneerning our interests is Irma mercial and other points of view, that he hoped ti e Noble Lord would now be prepared with an anew Lord CASTLEREAGH said, in the present state din communication on this subject he mot decline seem ing the question. THE. QUEEN.—Mr. HOWARTH appeared at the Bar, and presented the Report of the Committee ap. pointed to search the Lords' Journals, to see wilt proceedings had been adopted by their Lord* House respeming the Queen. The Report was read, and detailed the pros:fah" of Tuesday and Wednesday evening, relative to In Majesty. Lord CASTLEREAGH then, pursuant to his wired last night, rose to explain the course he was attain pursue on,this subject, when Mr. Tteuxer objected to the Noble Lord's takisi this notice out of its turn. The Noble Lord's ha notice related to the Queen's answer, and wan, is regular order, be taken first, otherwise his Hon. Flint, Sir li. Fcrguson's notice, would have precedences the motion which the Noble Lord was now going into. Lord CSSTLEREAGH submitted, that he had a edit to bring forward this motion under the general allot regarding the Queen's answer, and in conseqnsftif the explanation he gave last eight ; and appethitt the Chair. After some farther conversation between theSteade Mr. CANNING, Mr. Therese, and Mr. Animation& Lord UASTLIIRIAGII declared his readiness to Ow way, and postponed his motion till to-marten. Lord J. Russeu. then postponed his mike, se tht subject of Sir M. Lopez's imprisonment, nail Tuesday. MILAN COMMISSION.—Sir It. Felielftell reel, in pursuance of notice, to bring under the Somdittlb Lion of the House the subject of the Milan Celued•MOß and in doing so, be assured the House that .Wig but a strong sense of duty could induce him to swe come his Reluctance to undertake the task. Nib ill• pugisanee was increased by the consciousness of Wie ability to do justice to a subject so very importastim every point of view, and pregnant with such writes consequences to the Uovernocut of the country. tit Ministers pursised • different course from that midi they had selected, these dicrussions, so unhappy• every account, would never have taken place. Ild they not sanctioned the omission of her Majesty's name from the Liturgy, all would have been hashed But they adopted a different conduct, fatally fie Is tranquility of the country. Bleu after they had ad wised this unjust measure, it was in their pew still to recal their acts, Rind rem:mead is restoration of her name to the public pure This omission so one attempted to justify stid the exception of a Right Honourable Widnes opposite (Mr. Canning) who had said, that the eld o drawing her Majesty s name from the Liturgy no 1 part of a system which it had bees thonght ropey adopt with respect to bcr Majesty. 'fbe Nelda fiel (Castlereagh) had said, that unless her MOST lis come to Englassi, -se proceediop woad As* Mw thought of against hen—se that in fact, her ails WI the settler her feet ha li/6 lied. The moment be OP jesty had committed this crime, the terms Beg. IA odious charges., ran brestot doss sasi•-loid es But the theirs of die ammo were se decisiv a rt u r: the entertalidag 'of IS contests. that It was pedient to abasdes the proposition for taking it MlAs' sideration. Is eoesegnesce of this hostility. - did t• Lord, to sae as expreesioe of his owe, w gerunds upon himself," and said of his own mottos that. derogatory to the dignity of the Crowns, and Whim ° the best interests of the countrv. However, it ma I P sonable that the public should fie made elh the source whence the decontrols were a := l .= which the Alarm agaiast her Malestv wen He (Sir It. V.)-should therefore state to the Wow which perhaps was knob to many by maw. he he had mess to belle,. was totaled is re L fit shield be glad to beat the statement coat there weristy characters that stool insprunisili 11 ' It had hese Ily sederstood, that Woes time sr! eertais ssmarar it perms, from this =go ib Ilia Se the pm t. 1 with tooset to. the . lie that the credit of Ifiis invention was not due et lg. tors, but to a prrodssoso holding a high Acid in the coantry ; is short, to throw aws tall delicacy apes the gabled, the VieseL MOll ' individsal,wiso lest proposed the CosioniGish• IL Ferrates) was wee.' Is the lespolmism in .... happy to he set tight, At ell anti% kW , lige dose nationhood ' Mk amelemma less "see ash. himself siorylosoble Is the Oat toidi s la ild Wet suesmoled ils Mar& est the MOO whiu b hehenshwa anted upon. The ne at ..,__ iii as the bead of practised with i .1,.,.^- - . ' I I I 1