The Statesman. — London, England, 1814-04-23 00:00:00

TI-I Pi STA Tl4:Sli .4 Isr: man, ,a, antsztliurfeolaiteeddetiletialiteladf4, s p : h e il e k o lei c le : . e co r m ea m so e t i t i s d w t h o ic a h n o y ec o as e i ntle. • -.. ...I;r e e-rees -------e----o----e--see---e----j---e--ee,—ege--,--e------,----•-•-- re t. defe H a e ted w , o a u ilistiage. that d w e e fea The facts that distinguish the present instance are, able. In Mr. Hatsell's work it was said to he cas e need addi . tkonar elucide . tion, qr any farther and t r h e th•o lei mew resolutions had been voted, that a Bill toma p ry o , t . i o c t u t i p a re n r tiottinwgoidtilgqi,,lposney4l3pilelso,tiottoi re of orgy yp it o u r l tis. ate o ti f oi t t h 7 N h o is we p! r i t ,o . rd W , r st e h o r i e r f i e n r g en 4 ce be t c o o te mg e n u s gf t e o lo ay n err , formable to them had been introduced, read a se- the cond time, and the principle•of it thus established. ment had been direeted.' On such ocCasian. the '' dams a new line of action, or to adopt a different h ave s ly pee to chofl t i h r e . s s p m ea a k ll e e r st Fo w s Undoubtedly, in a most material point the applies- Journals of the Leith were, necessarily the only ! procedure Kunst( *high . long usage had sanctiied, point tion of it was altered in the Committee, but the authentic records. Such speeches, however, were :it was not for Bid itself was never rejected, and I believe was in very rare. There were some Addresses in the reign sent, or upon shy other duties of his office, the ' miler to that given in thespeeck of the Right Holt. wled , g y . ge that he e.i.tence When the speech in question was delivered. of Elizabeth, and the celebrated one of -r641. I House thought fit either to lay down new rules, to . Gentleman he would willin l ackno It la nce ender these circumstances that that communi- During the reign of Charles 11. there were.sereral, ; ezplein - er ,abri,dge . b old . , .or entirely to remove the ' was in error. Some of his Honourable ..Prielitls had s 1 cation we; made to the throne, and made by what but none during the whole period of WilliaM . sand discretionary poWer with which he was Tested it ' suggested to him the propriety of having p tly to obey read from the Journals of the Irish House of Com, pureorted to be the (wren of the collective represen- Anne. Under George 1. one was made by Sir Spett- ~ ultl then only remain for him im lici 0 • .tat;ve bteiv.—[flear, hear !]-13nt if the example cer Compton, but no prerogative _speech ocCurred their c e ommeeds. He was their servant, and must ! moss , as it would place the subject in a much clearer' t. i ta t oint of vi w • a t and authority of precedent he insu ffi cient, let me till the year 1745. The usual mode was, t trespec. tfully abide . the resul The mpor u su b j e c t , n e, a l oug h he did not intend drigi. I t h* li ask, are we bound to decide by precedent alone, Speaker, • after alluding to other matters, preaented of the last Setslon, txt weire occupied the most : sally to take up the' time of theacruse by such a pro: are .We to abandon our own discretion, and volume. the Bills. Fourteen suck speeches by Mr. Onslow , considerable part of their attention, ra. the Catho- ! ceeding, yet he now conceived it proper to accede td rile entrntit our pr i vileges TI . to doubt and accident and abuudantly attested he extent and nature of this lic Qnestion, and although he did not inean to can. ; their wishes. $ t t tini . .elience ? Ido not wish to mix with this the dis. usage. In the reign of James I. elisions were made , nect its tepid with the debate then at issue he coo . 1 [The S peec h was h ere rea d which after advert: • i yand cession of that great question to which the words to circumstances entirely unconnected with, uny Par- J . ,cerved itito have been,. in !he etew of all parties, one ing to the spirited endeavours made by Parliament of th e passage re f e r ; I wish to confine myself to the liamentary proceeding e during the reigns of Charles or that ma nitude which tit. for his notice oo the, to prevent the increase of the natio n al d e bt t ro &tiger of the precedent they have established ;I I. and If. no positive limit *could be discovered .to occasion *teller! he introduced His conduct was • ceeded to notice the degree of prosperit y wealth,. wiitt to ask a Itether the original Mover of that slues- the topics which such Addresses embraced. In Mr. ahen fully before them ; if it were in their opinions never before experienced, which the nation then en tiOn (the filial seccess of which is to be, I trust, the Speaker Compton's seeech, in 1715, reference was censurable, he would 'indeed feel ite. great misfor. joyed, and which would soon cease, if not cherished consummation of his fame, the pure reward of his made to the impeachment which had been com- one, however, of which his Conscience would and maintained by that admirable Constitution, which virtues and his talents) anticipated, in the event of menced, and to events still more remote from his or- acquit him. He stood committed then before the , protected the liberty and p r operty of every class of failure, that his failure must he mentioned to the dinary cognizance. The deficiencies of the records House, to its wisdom he bowed, and on its substan. society. !The preservation of that Coustitutiou was . throne by a self-constituted au thority s_[ejes tr e : were am ply supplied by historical memoirs, all of : tie' justice he 'relied. rt only remained for him, the always the great object of their care; and nothing h e n—l wish to ask whether the numerous body which exhibited proof that a similar practice had at- . servant of that House, which was the nation's repro- : was so essential to its preservation, as the support o f of petitioners, at wlrgose instance he had brought . ways existed, and that it was not only Bills that had i sentative, to await the result with anxiety, but with. , that Protest ant ascendancy, .by which the Crown o f foveae! that disenssios, expected, that if they failed, passed in that House, but public occurrences of va- out fear. The Right lion. Gentlemati concluded by these realms was conferred. on the House of Brans their failure must be ercorded in the same manner, rious descriptions to which such speeches had always expressing his sense of the kindness and condescend- wick.] accompanied by the gratuitous comments of an unau- • exercised the right of adverting. In 1745, Mr. , ing attention with which he had been heard, and sat' Mr. Whitbread proceeded to Fey, that the speech thorised notification ?I must repel the accusation con. Speaker Onslow discussed different measures in his ; down amid loud acclamations. ! of Mr. Foster having been read, for the information veyed in the phrase ' fundamental laws,' against the speeches to the Throne, the legality of •suhscrip-1 Mr. WHITBREAD said he felt himself - called of the (louse, he called upon any Gentleman who s u pporters o f that quesißtit, that they had any design , tions in times of rebellion, the reformation of Courts- upon not only to make some observations on the . then heard him, to show any part of it by whi c h of altering them, and I think the Catholics have some Martial, the expediency of disarming thealighlands, ! Address which Mr. Speaker had delivered at the ' the conduct of the Right Honourable Gentleman • right to c o mplain, that having been long described and abolishing the heritable jurisdictions, together ! bar of the House of Lords, but on certain expressions ' could be justified. All that Mr. For s ter said was , as Papists and Romanists, they are here designated with various questions of foreign policy. lf, in. I which were contained in the speech which the House . that the only means of preserving the blessings as acknowledging a foreign jurisdiction. Are the deed, a specific precedent was required, it might not; had just heard. He (Mr. Whitbread) remained of • which the country enjoyed was, to maintalu the limits and the nature of that jurisdiction stated ? be easy to discover, in the small number of those the same opinion now, after he had heard the speech 'Protestant ascendancy inviolate. Ile did not in. No; and I cannot help thinking that, in times ' which were authenticated, any that was precisely lof the Right Hon. Gentleman (endued, as ,it was, 1 form the Lord Lieutenant, ,gas the Right Honours lik e the present it would have been more w ise analo g ous. Neither was there any that. could throw I with all the learning he had collected on the subject) able Gentleman had informed the Throne, th a t the to have abstained from any topics of useless irrita- any solid doubt on the proposition he had submitted. las he had formed before it Was delivered. With all I state had been endangered by certain measures, tint—to have r emembered the language of Paley— By Mr. Speaker Onslow's papers, which, by the I the respect lie felt for the Right lion. Gentleman's i which were intended to give the Roman Catholics to here acted in the genuine spirit of toleration, rather ,favour of Lord onslow, he had been allowed to t functions, as Speaker—with all the esteem he felt , the right to sit in Parliament ; but which had been than t o have boasted how much had been done for it. profit of, it appeared that this was his opinion, and : for him, individually, as a man—he still remained defeated by the House of Commons, who thought How do w e know that some future Speaker, avail- that he was prepared to act upon it, when the King! of opinion, that he had no authority, indirectly from l it inexpedient to niter the Protestant Constitution in g himself of this example, may not conceive him- happened to be taken ill, and could ndt come to the I precedent, nor directly from that House, to make ;of the Empire. There was not one point of ground, self ut liberty to make a rejected measure the vehicle flouse.—[llear, hear !]—Another instance was in i the communication which (being, as he had himself iin the whole of Mr. Speaker Foster's speech, on of sarcastic observation, and by affixing a new de- ' 179'2, and in the Irish Parliament, 'and related to I stated, the servant of that house) he had done to the : which• the Right Hon. Gentleman's conduct could nomination, to exercise new modes of hostility ?-1 the same subject as that to which he had conceived I Throne, at the close of the last Session of Parlia- stand.—[Hedr, hear n—Tilere was another point May he itht select some oppertunitg where petitioners himself justified in alluding.—A Bill had been ment.—[hear!]—ln thus acting, he had transgressed i which the Right Hon. Gentleman had treated with hare, after enduring a long and tedious suspense, : brought into the Irish ileum, of Commons, for alt. 4 the boutts of his duty—and, therefore, he must] much levity its his speech delivered that night, bat begun to derive consolation from the dawn of a lowing Catholics admission to the profession of the ,-contend, that the communication he had thought lit • which appeared to him (Mr. \Vhitbread) of so brighter day, to add mortification to disappointment, law ; and after the second reading a Petition was Ito make, was not authentic. It was needless for ! much importance, that it folioed part of the Amend. and aim a fatal blow at a measure too difficult to be presented, praying that the elective franchise might I him, nor was*that the time, after the number of years meta which he intended to propose to the motion of carried, even with all the weight of Ministerial au- be included. Mr. Foster, then Speaker, on pre-' during which the Reuse had witnessed the conduct , his Noble Friend. The passage to 'which he al. thority ? It is against the danger that I wish to senting the Money Hills to the Throne, thought it of the Right ltnit. Gentleman in the Chair, to pay , laded, was that wherein the Right Hon. Gentleman guard, a danger threatening alike the right of peti- his duty to advert to this circumstance, and to state ' him those eompliments which were due to his ahili- ; stated, that he was, as Speaker, bound in duty to tinning and the freedom of debate. It is to preserve emphatically the indispensible necessity of maintain. , i ties, and which, on other occasions, he had not with- : attend the Committees of that Rouse, and, if ne. these rights, in which the freedom of the Constitu. ing the Protestant establishments and the Protestant : held. His duty now impelled hint to pursue a dif- ! cessary, to restore order, i•a that capacity. But he tion depends, that lam anxious. Obliterated as ascendancy. F or this sreech lie received the thanks : ferent line of conduct :he was - obliged to address, should have recollected the descrip t io n which Mr. that freedom was during the rule of the Norman line, i of the llouse.—[lkae, hear !]—On a full review of I . the Right lion. Gentleman in . other terms—and, in l i Hatsell had given of the situation of Speaker. Trio it has never failed to re-appear during the intervals the practice, as it nppea red at different period 4 the I doing so, he could only wish, that leis obseryttions ; individual holding that office was the only Member and relaxation of tyranny. In the reign of Henry IV. principle he conceived to be, that every political : had been directed to airy other person. lie felt, as ; exempt from attendance on Committees—he wait during t , :e contests on a disputed succession, in an- question of paramount importance, and which had the Right Honourable Gentleman seemed to do, j the only Member who could not be compelled to titer to an address from the Speaker, that his Ma-' occupied considerable time, was within the province that some cause of complaint, if not of direct; appear ; contrary to the rules by which every other j , sty would hot listen to any private information of of the Speaker on such occasions. The importance . accusation, should have been advanced against Memb e r w as bound, the S p eaker taattl aot be what pa's'd among his faithful Commons, but would of the Catholic Bill wets admitted—it had occupied limn, in the motion, on w hick the lloese woald i forced to come forts erd ( old to give his v ote. Be jad;e them only by their deeds, that King replied, the i r attention durin g the whole of the Session, And have an opportunity of coming to a clear tie- I would refer the Right Hon. Gentleman to his own that he would not give credence to such informers, and a Bill for further toleration had actually eitssaid. termination. But, what was matter of tnore con- • text-book—he would referr him to Mr. Ilatsell—for because the proceedings of that House were known — [h ear, hear !]— The second division of his vin- i ceru, he thought that th at House, the Represents - I this doctrine. He ,was not obliged to attend Com by the acts of its collective body.-e[Hene, hear!]— dication was, whether the manner of making the re-' lives of the people of England, should have a chargelmittees ; and, if he did appear, he could only vote This freedom, which was afterwards confirmed by ference had been proper ? Here he submitted, that ; before them, as direct as words could make it, in- las a private Member—he was not recognised iii any the 9th of that Monarch, proves that it was not of ail that could be required was, that the represents- • eluding every one of those particulars, which, to I other capacity. The Seeker, on such occasions, such modern date as some persons may suspect , and , tions should be accurate and correct. tTlie ' . Right , the Right Hon. lon. Gentleman, appeared of little mo- was supposed to be in his private room ; and, on a that although if may often have been suspended, it Honourable Gentleman here called the attention . meta, but which to him, seemed matter of very division,. he was not expected to come out of it. — bat never become extinct. It is asserted in that no. of the House to his next point of justifieation. 'great aggravation. The Right Hon. Gentleman The Right Hon. Gentleman, when the Catholic Bid ble protestation addressed to James I. a Prince who —ln the discharge of that part of his duty which had alluded, as was anticipated in the eloquent, was before the Ilouse, did, for the first time, thi:dc seems to have been as ignorant of the eke in which was under discussion, it did not appear that he manly, and constitutional speech of his (Mr. Whit- I proper to come out of his private room—U./cur, be lived, as of the people he had come to govern, pointed to what might hereafter be the decision bread's) Noble Friend, to the authority of Mr. I hear, hear! from ley. Treasury Bench.j—Htv and who is said to have expunged it with his own of the House, but to that which actually bad taken Speaker Otislow—from his treasures, it speared, meant to speak technicl• The Right liollourable band from our Journals. The same principle was place.—[!/car, hear . 1 3---[tlere the Speaker rend the he had made a selection. But he was not the only IGentleman then delivered his opinion. It was maiutaineil by the Long Parliament, a Parliament objectionable passage in his speech.)--It described person who had access .to them. Mr. Ilatsell also strange that he had not taken part in the debates at which, though it humbled the pride of Kings, un- the Catholics precisely according to their acknew- bad recourse to these papers ; and in availing him- a former time, when party feelings were carried to a eouhtedlv disgraced the cause of freedom, by closing ledged tenets, namely, their admission of a foreign self of Mr. Speaker Otisloa's knowledge, he height never before known in this country--to a is exertions in outrage and blood. The Revolution jurisdiction. It afterwards designated the laws of . had, somehow or other, omitted that strange and height, which those who had witnessed the debates came subsequently to give to it its final confirmation, the country as fundamentally Protestant. Were particular speech which Mr. ()astute intended to in that House never could forget.—lf the Right awl established it, to diffuse vigour and animation they not so? Were not these statements built on the' have made, but never did make, at the Bar of the Ifon. Gentleman had then stated his sentiments—if through all our future deliberations. It is not for authorities expressly laid down and acknowledged . house of Lords. He should like to peruse that he had then endeavoured to asuage the acrimony of the purpose of attacking an individual that this upon such suhjeets ?In making the exposition,' did speech, which never had seen the 14;ht, which Mr. I party, and to restore order—it might have been of goestien is now brought forward—it is from an ear- he not proceed upon, and fairly state, as well as he Ilutsell had not used, and which, ns it was stated, use. But lie never delivered his sentiments on that nest desire to watch over the sacred flame of consti. could collect them, the grounds of debate which ac- did not appear to him to bear upou the case. In measure which was now called the Duke of Nor tutioual jealousy, as it was termed by Mr. Burke, a tasted the decision of the House. This was his line stating the reason why that speech was net spoken, i felk's Bill, but which, in 1807, when the Bight Hon. jealousy of that Constitution with which we have of actiop : he proceeded upon the avowed occurrence ,he thought the Right Honourable . Gentleman Genleman tilled the Chair, bore the • name of a long been blessed, and which is now copied as a mo. as it had taken place in Parliament, and no farther, had gone too fur. Ile observed, that it was not f Noble relative of Isis (Viscount Howick, now Earl del for the infant liberties of other nations. It is to and, therefore, he was justified both by precedent delivered ; and then lie proceeded to tell the Reuse Grey), and which occasioned the dissolution of the raise end maintain the spirit of Parliament, and to and authority. eVith reference to the technical' ob- . the reason why. But if he had intended to Administration of that day. Ile contended, that, defend those privileges, without which all other prin. jections which were urged, they really were unwor- speak it, might not his forbearance have arisen ias Speaker, the Right Honourable Gentleman could cielss must be endangered, that I Move this Resolu- thy of the Noble Lord's understanding; for in- ' from an after consideration, that such a course 1 not, except by way of instruction from the Chair tion— stance, it had been gravely stated, that the Speaker was entirely unconstitutional ? When the motives 1 man of a Committee, be put in possession of the was supposed to have no legal knowledge of What : which led to Mr. Speaker Onslow's determinationc circumstances which occurred in that Committee.passed in a Committee of the House, and, therefore, - were thus unknown, he conceived that he was josti• 1 And such were the extraordinary proceedings of that was precluded from adverting to it. So far-Am fled in dismissing the precedent. He would next 1 particular Committee, which sat upon the Catholic that being his view of the case, it appeared to4tini notice the precedent from the other side of water—l Bill, that even from the Chairman h e cou ld no t h a ve that it was strictly his duty to be present in a Cone.' from the Irish House of Commons.—Now, the speech I received any information. —[Hear, hear!] —The mittee, for the purpose, if necessary, to take the delivered by Mr. Speaker Foster, vihom he was 1 House of Commons, after long deliberation unit ma- Chair instantur, either for the restoration of good happy to see in his place, was not at all analogous ; ture reflection, sent the Catholic Bill to a Commit order, which - may be • suddenly forgotten (as mice 'to that delivered to the Right lion. Gentleman— ; tee.—By a majority of four, the clause which gave happened within his own time), or upon any other ; who had informed the Prince Regeet, then support- ' the Roman Catholics a right to sit in Parliament, was , immediete exigency. Besides, the books of a Com- ! ing the dignity of the (Stowe, that the House of lost. The Ris ht Hon. Gentleman being one of these: mittee could be referred to by any Member, and Commons had entertained certain measures, which ' who voted against it. When he resumed the Chair , their information resorted to—they were authority' were defeated—and he stated the reason which Occa- Ino Report was made to him from that Committee: - as far as they went, and were only second in that ! slotted that 1 efeat. Now, in the first place, did there was not, therefore, any proceeding before . light to the Journals of the House ; therefore, to . ; Mr. Speaker Onslow, at any time, give such an in- the Right Honourable Gentleman on which he had a' suppose 'for a moment that the Speaker had no cog- ttimation to the Crown? Even in that speech, in right to act, when he declared, that the Bill was" nitance of the proceeding in a Committee, was an I'which the Right Hon. Gentleman observed he had defeated. The Bill, at the lime the Right Honour- , inference wholly withotitfoundation.—[ileate , heur!] etaken so wide scope, and travelled so far, by land able Gentleman made the statement, was in exist- The concluding paragraph of Ids speech,' expressive ; and sea, on the affairs of Europe, in 1745, did he not ence and alive.—[Hear, hear! ,] -'.`Vas- this ' then,, of the enlargement of religious toleration , telld re-; conclude, by observing that these were 'l ite induce- an authentic exposition . of the - sentiments of 'the . . ference to a legislative Act whiCh hid just then pass.; ments which led to the passing of the Bills then pre- House ? Did the .Right Honourable Gentleman: ed—the' Duke of Norfolk's Bill, which allowed a i sented by him? In one instance, indeed, his con- not know—could he paetehd not to know, th a t the larger scope for civil end 'religious privilege. A state e duct was somewhat different--that was, where he . ment, therefore, 'to the Soiereign upon those points spoke of an investigation i n to the situation of certain ' Order! from the Mißisterial Bertehtl.]— 'har. Whit was the more suilnhle, because leis' prerogative be- officers, which terminated in an address. As to the : bread observed, that he was called upon to speak came'consequently themOVe immedietely...iffected . hy' 'Nereid precedent; it was still less to the point. Mr.! out,. and he would speak out.-44 tau gh.]-Could an extension of 'intake pnwei.-4//eisr, hear !I— , s peaker f Commons, foster, in the Irish House Of ac- ; the Right Hon. Gentleman explain the motives. on The Speaker's role o f SetectiOn was indisputable ; it cording to the opinious he was well known to en-I,.whielt every individual acted on that occasion ?-14. \quid be ' • la! "ewtetlie grounds of any - or ever' tertian on the .subject of Cithnlic_ Emancipation, lin 1807, theßiglttHon. Gentleman had stated that __ - - - - " Talt a special entry be made on the Journals to the lot ion me 4.fr • -1:- •• Tiett tint drawn loin precedent to inf..r.n his Majesty at ttte Bar of the House of Lords, or elsewhere, or any 13111 or or proceeding relative thereto, unless the 'shine should be cont.ented to by the House." The SPEAKER, rising in his place s said, the mo tion, however prefaced, involved nothing less than a grave and serious charge against him, amount ing to a violation of his duty as Speaker of that Mouse. Ile could not help thinking the course of proceeding which had been adopted was highly injurious to the dignity and character of the House, and that it would have savoured more of plain dealing if the Noble Lord had brought forward a plain And direct motion of censure. But although the object of that motion was only a prospective regulation, yet, denounced as he had long since been as an unauthorised expositor, and founded as it was upon an accusation of misconduct on his part, he trusted he should be allowed to prove the accusation to be completely groundless.—There' were two questions to which he must refer in his own vindication : the first, Whether the proceed ings on the Catholic Bill were fit to be mentioned ut such a time ihd in such a place ?—Secondly, "Virktether it was fit to mention them at all ; and if fig, 'whether they were mentioned . in a pro per manner ?—His opinion was, with respect to the first question, that on such an occasion it was fit to altude to all and every matter 'that had en-, gaged touch of the attention, or occupied much of shoo,. -to lay down grounas Bill "which Came before the nOuse and also, it, was. l Ms Moil importint 'duty to'eaplain tke thotivei by Which the Hinting ii.ad been influenced in the decision it had adopted:" This was in conformity with long j expirience which hod '— path,. bed stated, at the Bar of the Mose of Lords, that the wealth, improvement, agriculture, and manufactures of tke kingdom, depended on preserving. the Pro. testant Ascendancy in Ireland. But he did not tell the provisions of Lord Hawick's Sill were reject ed,• because they would endanger the Coustitu tioo—those provisions which 'were since happily introduced in the Duke of Norfolk's Bill---those loaf it►e time of Parliament. This was the principle which h4s been frequently laid down, and to which. the entries on the Lords' Journals were conform. larliamentary ; the lights which had been sed on the , made it plain, clear, and dis cernible ; the case sru too clearly established to the Lard Lieutettint,esereking the authority of the Crown in that country, that certain measures had been proposed iu the Irish House of Commons—that provisions, now passed in England, and so long promised to the Catholics of Ireland—would that . have been a fair exposition of the sentiments of