The Statesman. — London, England, 1820-05-31 00:00:00

. • , STATESMAN me he referred to a SelPrit COMlllittve. erlre t te .; la s pach that a tusk of this important natitre did not de. tr i c e to a much more competent inditideal, for he wetted the inidestat It o and the capability of trivial.; aka to his opinimes, which many in that House had i s is est it power hr o r; !o the consult' ration of this lie r.;,re:teti 111114 . 11 that the Poo. Member fac Easel was preveeted by the state of his health from „mp g urn him .t tie y which he was every way so 3 .,1e to discharge- Hr believed, it was now admitted , P tty gra •rally that the met ieultural i , orrest of the (A wns was rapidly advancing to decay, and that un-! loss ame measure of remedy were found out, and ap ruie of an irretrievable character must follow— I and in that ruin would every class in the country be involved. Wheest•v•r the question of aericultural tlis tres. liai beet bentelictl in tie• House. it was said by ; ~.e lictubers who supported parti..ulaely the manu t...tutioe classes, that the gauntlet had he-u thrown ).tun fur a co.it 'Mien i t which they were sleterm.itell to take an active opposition. He beg:,•,l 1 ., assure the it., e -e that he did not collie before thew to & mom ' say 11 diminution of encouragement or protection in the essa subietasiw.! portion of the community. No ma u, he • 14 . to I.V . 1 was spore sensible than he was of ' • • ii.e intimate etestrtrxion which rnbsi..ted between I elc two classes in the country. lle believel that t t House would ever art upon the einviction that the ruin of the one portion wt.uld necessarily carry al sae with it the destruction of the other. The •ri eil•urists did nut then come solicit the Legislature to withdraw any part of its protection ti on the manufacturing bodies. But the object a the agricultural petitioners wie. to represent to the House, that the Legislature hayin x, in 1 15, taken into cousideration the eircutustances which were then put eth in evidence re!artling the state of agriculture, had come to the resolution, that a protection should he is;ren to agriculture; anti that unless a remunerating price was given to agriculturists—unless eighty shil lines was provided as the price of lt:• produce, it would he impossible for hint to struggle against the dith:ul - in which he was involved. The sole ohjeet of the petitioners, then, was to obtain, not an excess of price fir their produce, but merely such a retnrn as would enable them to go on. They wished to state that the mode of protection which had been ulreatly put in prantice, was inadequate t ► aceirupiish its object.— They wished that the petitions shuttld be referred to a t'ommittee, for the purpose of showing how inade quate were the legislative measures to protect them ; tad should they succeed in showing the justice of their representations, they hoped that the House would follow ap the inquiry by some measure of redress. The House lad seen various petitions, attributing the distresp of the country to the waste of public money, to pensions and places, and boroughmongering ; but the petitions of the agriculturists were of a very different charac ter to these. They were all men remarltable for their loyalty to the King and Constitution, and conscious that all the burdens now placed upon :Item arose out of that straggle, which in the end gave the n liberty and seearit:..—they were determined to bear their share of the general pressure, to the utmost limits of their capacity. If he suspected that the agricultural classes had been actuated in their demands by any other than motives of justice, and a due attention to their own •curity, he would have left them to choose another ad locate. When this question had been at any time rit toted in the House, the Uentleusen who supported the manufacturing interest exclaimed—" What! are not the manufacturers sufferingenough already, and du you wish to add to their sufferings!" This language he deemed most impolitic; he believed that the cry of cheap bread and low prices had been a great cause of injury to the country. It would be wasting the time a the House, were he to expatiate on the distresses of the agrieu:tural bodies. There was not a landed pro prietor in that House who did not feel it. From the year 1 etni to Idl 4, whoever went through the coun try might hate seen every where an improved cultiva tion, a thriving farm, and an increasing stock. But since that thue the failure, the degradation, and abso lute ruin of agriculture bad hems advancing progres sively, and was snore rapid than ever in the last year. Hut thr causes of the distresses of the two classes were exactly the saute. After a war, when l 3 millions of taxes were taken off, and the amounts of the interest of leans were discontinued, the cessation of the expen diture which tended so much to raise the value of pro- duce, of coarse lessened the demand.—(Hear, hear '.)— An Hon. Member con • t with political economy (Mr. Ricardo) bad some time ago stated, that he for else would teee for some measure of relief, if it were posted that the agriculturists were made to bear bur liests in which the rest of the community slid not take a port. He (Mr. H. Sumner) wondered how the lion. Member could have put the case hypothetically, know ing, as he must, the fact to be so. Every body knew . that the land had to endure the whole weight of the eharch Eetablishment. Eight tenths of the poor rates were laid upon the land, as were also the county rates, the expenses of the preservation of the public peace, and the whole expense of high roads, except turnpike roads. '1 he latter burden, be must confess, he did not think could be removed from them. Not withstanding all this, they would still be able to hold .p, had it not bleu for the operation of those very • hoes which were professedly made for their support. It was entirely against the competition of the fo reigner that they asked for protection. It was impos sible that they could be expected to compete with the foreigner, pressed as they were with an enormous debt.—(Hear, hear! from the Opposition.)--tlentle men might cry, " Hear, bear !" at the mention of the debt, if they pleased, and suggest a mode of getting rid of it; but he was conscious that that debt could never be removed from them. He was sensible, that whatever might be the pressure of the burden, we erred all our liberties and security to the system by which that debt was originated and continued. But he would repeat, that the agriculturists were insde elute to compete with the foreigner. Every body at all acquainted with the state of agriculture here must . 1010 W that wheat could not be grown in this country fen eighty shillings ; and it was equally well known . that wheat could be sent into this country, not only from most parts of the Continent, but also from ' (ter shores of the Black Sea, at the rate of thirty-six It was then asked, why grow corn here, if it could be had from abroad so much cheaper? But he would answer, if the ports wire thrown °pegs THE and that foreign corn was permitted to come into this country without restrietiOa, what won'd become of the nation? If the consumer went into the market, it was' natural, of course, that he shoal , l prefer bityina the foreign corn bee:ruse it was the eh..apest. Tile con- sequence o mild he, that the no rieultnrist wools! withdraw Isis capital somewhere eine. In truth, if WV went on according to the present system, the re sult would be, that we should convert this beautiful garden into a perfect desert. Was this an anticipation which any man, of whatever side, would wish to see accomplished. The provisions of the late Corn Bill were said to have produced an steerage of seventy eight shillings to the agriculturist. He denied this. In fart, this report was one of the seandalosis reports that hail been circulated about the cootory for obvious pur poses. The fact was, that the average never exceeded 72 shillings. Agriculture was the only creative source of wealth. It was always to be limited by the poi.u lation. When manufactures arose in a country, there was, of course, a greater deinatel createtl fur the pro duce of agrieultural Lamar, and consequently it ac quired a considerable sti ttttt Hence the intitnate connexion h..t ween the saricultural and the manufac turing hushes. If then, under the present tare - stances of the etetntry, the matinfarturer purchased his bread abroad, the would br ruin to the farmer at home. The prayer of the prtitiueers masa that they might have ae opportunity of proving their Cle.r. They called fur 0.) 3prelfie rellimelly, but they pledged themselves to 3:11w the inadequacy of the pre sent law to produce the arofesseti ohjert ; in fact, that time situat• of the agriculturists was as bad as if that law bad never passed. They dia not attempt to devise the means of redress; that they left to the wistl of ' Parliament, While asidressi.ig the House upon the case of the aaricuatu isos, it was intim...sable that he' could muit noticing the late petition of the :merchants! of the city of Londe.). He particularly ola•et, d to the mode in which it was iutroduced, besatist• he belit•vt d that it 'nos brought forward with a view to create a prejudice is the House upon the subject of the agricul tural petitions. In fact, he u as persuaded that it was ( intended to be turned into all antiaute against the' etrect of the agricultural petition. If the Honourable Member who brought it in (air. itstrino) wished to disguise his objt‘, t, the means he employed were very inadequate for that purpose ; because, although the lion tientleman addressed the House with the utmost moderation and temper, yet it was remarkable that he lost bath as soot) as he Lunches' upon the sub ject of the agricultural petitions, sometimes even not deigning to speak of them eith nonillion civility. The Hon. M 'tuber, had he been converiant with agri culture, woul,l not have called the document, to which he had alluded, a farrago of nonsense. lie (Mr. 11. Sumner) felt his inadequacy to discharge the duty which he had undertalsen—he felt that he might not have observed ablress to the House, that con nection which had misted previously in his mind; but he was sore at the saute time, that however inadequate he might prove to produce any strong impressions on the House, the isseportassee of the subject would not j fail to be acknowledged by all—(Hear, hear!)—He,, eon:holed by istoiiir, that the different petitions pri-1 sented to the House, complaining of agricultural die tress. be refered to a Select ttttt mince to inquire into the matter therein contained, and report accordingly. Mr. Bunco, iu seemstlisie the tion, deprecated the idea of separating the agriettlttiral from tale manu facturing interest, site due preservation of both being equally essential so the welfare of the nation. He shottiti he the la t lean to put •y into the pso•kets of the farmer. at the expense of the tradesman, the manufacturer, sir the Illerlll3lll. He was disposed to support the motion now before the House, because the! Act passed in la I a, on the subject to which it re-1 furred, was not found to answer the purport That Act fixed the protectilia price on ml:e importation of foreign corn at tot 51111161 , S a tot:trier ; but its effect produced no advantage- whatever to the farmer. Ile believed it had been rendered inoperative chiefly in consequence of the averages, which were calculated on a bad system ; and it was a fart, that the agriculturist, instead of getting Mts. a quarter, as the law provided, received now only 72. The returns of the averages were 111.111 e out, not by the loaner, as they ought to be, but by the merchant. All he desired was, that the A. t of I a. 15 :should be made complete. Without support. it would be impossible for the English farmer to compete with the foreign agriculturist, who tumid grow corn t I su um .h more advantage, as he was tiot subject to taxes. Ile ghouls' nut take upon himself to give an opinion as to whether taxes were or were not necessary, but his opinion was that they were neces sary—(A last h)—and unless the agriculture of the country was protected, it would be impossible either to support the revenue or the numerous poor, who la re left as a t karate upon Ilse public inaustry. The question being 1101,1' put from the Chair, Mr. twins:sue addressed the House against the mo tion. He was sorry that a sense of public duty obliged him to rise upon the present occasion, nut being able, from al indisisusition under which he laboured, to treat the rubject . uuder consideration as he could wish. He hoped, however, for the indulgence of the House, if the observations which he hail to submit should not be delivered in that explicit manner which the question de manded. Many reasons concurred why such sub;ects as the present should be treated with the greatest eau tion, and introdu.ed tests frequently than any other. Upon all subject. of vast national importance, it was natural t a r toe people of every country to entertain strung prejudices, and as there were some which in volved matte's of peculi tr delicacy, nothing was more I nowise than to biing them too often forward. He, therefore, regretted that the present question had been again introiuced, after the explicit declaration he bad made last yea:, that it was nut expedient to make any alteration in the existing laws relative to corn, when a revision was proposed. He had matte that statement, not only because he thought h • was right in so doing, but became he expected that after such an explicit dec'aration, officially delivered on the part of the tio vernotent, the question would not afterwards have been pressed. It was true It nos nut afterwards presort I in that House, but coosiderahte agitation had bet is ex cited throughout the country with regard to it; and the law was dent ied AI inoperative. Petitions had been inJustriously got up in every quarter, and au arrange ment was made for concentrating the whole mind of the agriculturist , ut the country, is order to give a 1 : more united and &Otani:led character to the nature ofl their representations. He regretted that an individual who um& himself the most conspicuous among them, an.l held the most preposterous opinions (Mr. O. Webb Hall we believe), went so far as to issue manifestos, calling upon th.• agriculturists to demand that which it would be the height of marines!: to grant. But it was a fact, that distress was not so general among the agriculturists as some persona represented. Accord ing to the statement upon a recent occasion by the Hon. Member for Oxford, it was nut sensibly felt in that county ; nor had he (Mr. Robinson) witnessed any very alarming effects of it in those pasts of the country which he had visited. He had not seen &mints leaving their farms—he had not Peru rents in arrear, nor had he wen the poor-rates unpaid, it consequence of the dis tressed state of agriculture. Vet it was nut fur him to say that no distress existed, merely because he had not him self seen it ; that would be as absurd as the assertion made by persons that distress was general, because they happened to witness it in certain places which they had visited. No; hr was ready to admit that distress did ex ist : and it would he now proper to ascertain the cause, in order to discover what ►eight be the best remedy for it, if a remedy could be provided. The cause of the present agricultural distress was certainly a reduction in the price of corn, in consequence ale diminuti )))) in the demand. But such reduction of price was not created by any defect in the Corn Laws; it proceeded from . events which it was impossible to control. No man could contemplate the occurrences s►f the last twenty live years, without being impressed with the canvic tism that a protracted war had been the cause, by its giving to this country a large available capital, while in others it destroyed property altogether. Infinitely Go large a proportion of that capital was applied to the cultivation of land, which otherwise would no; have been tilled; and this had the effect of raising the price of ageettltural produce. It was certain that the worst land might, at a proportismate expense, be brought into rultivatiuu; hut no Legislative measure could keep it in continual cultivation, as that depended alto gether on other causes. It was said by his Honour able Friend who introduced the tion, that the law of 1815 was ineffectual, because the fixed price of $O.. did not give a sufficient protection to the farmer ; but he differed with hint entirely in this view of the ques tion. The agriculturists would have stis. as the me- A/blouse, whereas he (Mr. Robinson) intended it as the monotone The Corn Act had nit other object than to quiet the minda of the farmers, by enabling them to sell corn at a fair price, but it was never intended by it to allow them to do noire. Ile hail by him some calculations which would elsow how groundless were ! the complaints of the agriculturists, with regard to the impartation of foreign corn. In the last five years the quantity of corn imported amounted to 3,483,675 quarters, from which there was a deduction I of 321,546 quarters for con-umption, and a reduction of 777,137 quarters for re-exportation, which, added ; to the consumption, left $,:1193,693 quarters, or 477,(11111 quarters for each year. The average price now under the operation of the Art wax 78s. 1114., anal iu the years 1617 and MS, the two years which foil-1 lowed one of the worst, perhaps, ever known, the int port:aloft of foreign corn was 2,6011,900 quarters. the average price being then as high as 89s. Front 1792 to 1812, a period of seventeen years, the quantity of corn imported was 5011,01111 quarters annually, and the average prire was 7205. lid. There were now the saute imports awl average price ; and if the farmers were at that period enabled to cultivate their lands with spirit, he did not see wity they could not do so at present, from the existing protection which gave them equal advantages. Ile could not conceive how the dist; tress could be imputed to the defective character of the Corn Act, when it was known that no foreign corn had been imported since the :ith February, I ;at least, if then- had, it was hut a mere trifle. He had never supported the Corn Bill as a positive good ; he had voted fur it only as a choice of evils ; and it being of that description, men ought to be cautious in stating that it did toot produce the full effect intended. His Honourable Friend said, that the petitioners called fur no specific remedy—yet he (Mr. Robinson) al ght, that some of the petitions did certainly call for such a remedy. Yet he was much pleased that none of them sugge-t••d the remedy contained in the manifestos which had been issued ; and whirls contained the ex travagant proposition of a permanent ditty on corn of 40s. a quarter. Were this most absurd proposition sanctioned, it would be impossible for any tioveruntent to co:tilt:et the affairs of the State, partieularly in times of scarcity. But even if a duty of 21/s. were admitted (which he did not approve of), still it would not have the effect of raising the price of curia above 3/. and in bad seasons, not even so much. In fact, the state of agriculture would he infinitely worse than at present. ; (treat stress had been laid on the system adopted with regard to the averages ; but to attribute the distress I to that cause, was the greatest possible delusion. It was supposed the agriculturists would get St's. a quarter, if the averages were taken in a different way from the present, namely, that by taking all the averages of the different corn districts together with ' the price, and then dividing one by the other, the result would he inure than is now produced from a contrary method. He, however, had amide a calculation which would show the fact to be directly the revers-. He took the price of corn in the twelve maritime districts for the six weeks preceding the 15th May, 1820, and in the week ending the Ittli of April he found the are ' rage upon wheat 70s. 3d., and with the other mode it would have been 70s. Id.; upon rye, 425. 7d., by the other mode, 403.4 d. ; barley 355. 7d., by ete other mode, 355. Id.; oats 245. I Id., by the other mode, 245. The calculations for the other weeks corre sponded exactly with this, and it was not, therefore, necessary for him to go through them in detail. It was proposed to omit the Welsh counties front the new system, as they were said to produce little or nothing. These counties were included in the Bth and 9th uteri time divisions, except the county of Moron sued, which i was in the I flth. He had made a calculation to show . what the effect would be if they were omitted. It was expected that the averages would be enlarged, but directly the contrary would be the case. It was, as he had stated, the greatest imaginable delusion to say that any portion of the agricultural distress was the consequence of the averages. Ile did not wean, how ever, to assert that these averages were perfect. All he contended fer•was, that nu Ilteratiou ought to take! place till souse special grounds of improvement were Made out. It watt a fact, that frauds might operate as frequently in favour of the agriculturist as against him, and there had been a recent instance of it at Liverpool, where a person had been prosecuted, whose object waa not to raise the price to the prejudice of the agriculturist, but to lower it. But it was said that foreign corn was smuggled into the country; he Lad, however, not heard of it himself, nor did be believe that any information had been received of such t fraud, though an alarm had been raised about foreign corn imported as native produce from the Isle of Man i and from Guernsey and Jersey. It had nut come t his knowledge that any foreign corn had been im ported from those islands, but a small quantity of native produce had always been furnished by them to the London market. But while he decidedly opposed any alteration in the law itself, he should not at the same time say, that there might not he grounds of cb- • jection to the manner in which it was executed. I that view the subject might go before a Committee haps with advantage. It might, fur instance, be prom r to ascertain whether the objection with regard to the cp pointment of inspectors was well founded. Magistraus were empowered to make such appointment., and they were to blame if they did not select proper persco.s. Another point of objection had been urged with regard to warehouses for foreign corn, which it was ~aid ...- ways kept the agriculturist in a state of alarm and anxiety. But what difference did it make whether . such warehouses were on this side of the channel or tro the other? For if they were not tolerated in Engle,* they would very soon be transferred to the nations of the Continent, and the coast of Holland would have that granary which lately stood on the coast of Essex ; the only difference being that a number of persoas nos employed here would he thrown out of bread, and ;•..i important part of the capital of the country removed .0 a foreign land.—(lleac, hear:)---He had already stoud enough to show that the present distress was the con *ripener of the univitoral state in which a war of Y 5 years duration had placed the country ; and conclud-c1 with observing, that nu legislative measures could afford relief in the instance in question, and that he could not, consistently with what he owed to himself, to the Go vernment, and to the country, accede to the motion n.w before the House. Mr. Wairreast, in a low tone of voice, spoke at some length in support of the motion. lie observed, that the county which he had the honour to represe”t, though from its resources better enabled to bear s..s tress than most others, was still obliged to yield to the pressure under which the agricultural interest labourei. Their capital was decreasing, and the value of the pro duce being inadequate, they were obliged to pay thrir rents out of that capital. Yet lie wished to be under stood as disclaiming any intention to secure what w:.s termed a remunerating price for the farmer ; all that was desired was, that this country should stand independent of foreign nations for the necessaries of life, by allowing the agricultutist a security against the importation id foreign corn, till the home price should rise to - Niels a height as to indicate the necessity d a supply. Tlve Act, however, of 1815, was not sufficient to call fat its British spirit or British industry. Thera was no seen my given by it to the agriculturist.. The lion. Meinl.er then took a retrospective view of the price of eons 'affs • far hack as the year 1773, and contended, as the ay.. , - rage price was 113 shillings for the in years preceding the year 1815. whets the Corn Bill pa.bed, that SO shillings, the price fixed by it, could not be an adequate protection to the farmer. He denied that this was a measure to bolster up the prices of commodities, but it was a Oiti sure of necessity, limier the circumstances of the country. Mr. HARINO was one of those who opposed the Corn Laws when they were under the consideration of the !house ; hut he took some credit for himself, as well as for the other tletitlesnen who opposed those laws, that they never made any attempt to disturb thesystem since it had been established. lie would willingly go* into the Committee, if he thought there was any chance of the result being a reduction in the protecting pricei of corn. But this' motion was altogether of so vague a na ture, that be could not anticipate what the effect might be if it were successful. Ilia lion. Friend near him (Sir. Western) stated his opinion openly, and 'with that manly candour which belonged to his general character, that his object was to raise the protection price. What the average of that price should he he did not stet,• though he threw out au idea that it might be about 93.., as he referred to that as the protecting price at a forme.- period. But his Hots. Friend seemed to have forgotten that, on account of the great alteration in the take of the currency, the price of 7/41. now, was as great a pri.'e a s 935. then.—(flear, hear '4—'l !sat the agriculturists felt distress could not he doubted, but the manufacturers suffered also. The farmer suffered because the utann factorer was not able to consume his productions ; and. on theotlier hand, the manufacturer suffered because the farmer rould not consume his commodities.—(llelr, hear!)—ln a petition presented from Birmingham, it was stated, indeed, that the consumption of cattle in that district was reduced from 58,000t0 46,000 bead of cattle. No 'kali% could be entertained of the fact, that the con sumption of the higher classes of agricultural produce had diminished,and the neceasaryconsequeuce was adecreased price fur those commodities. But from what did that decrease come ?—Csitloubtedly. from the people not benig able to consume; they could not afford it, and therefore it %vas clear that Use distress of one class was felt liv the other. and that they all had a common inte rest. With respect to the importation of foreign corn, the petitioners argued as if foreign corn were actually interfering with their own growth, whereas the law, as it now stood, operated as a restriction upon that impor tation, for it heal MOs. as the price at which foreign corn should be admitted, a price which, in fact, excluded' • it. The question now was whether that limitation • should be raised. The . Hon. Member 'here alluded to the fact, that the French Weenie:vet in tie beginning of the season having reason to apprehend a scarcity,. purchased up corn at a time it was 505., a price which, in that country, was an Wit-alias of -scarcity. Look ing at our own country in relatiow-to foreign 'countries, he could not think that it was in a tiftwation'sb much more prosperous than they were, as ti bear it rice so much higher than they paid. livery dint of pertains in this country felt themselves by the eha of circling . stances obliged to look cloiely into their lavenders, and to adopt an economical mode of living. flai the present ' petitioners sought to resist, or tq fruseratentst *solo tion of economy; in endeavouring as obtaistProfection for the landed interests, they only endeavothet to pre. vent themselves from suffering that debater oc_rerenue i which was felt by all the mat of the conitittleffy.—(lfeas, hear!)—i f the larded proprietors thought that they could keep up the same rents as formerly, tiloy..trould 6nd themrolves very muds mistaken, and every, effort of this kind, instead of improving, would bring tbeM down !till lower. He alluded - to the manner in which tit petitions upon. the subject were got up thrimils the country. amid said that a similar artifice was used fee thattsvpuse. ! as had been practised with regard ter the' petitions which, some Sessions ago, were poured in upon she House fur universal sugrage sod anno.apailiatnents.— I • . * I oJi