The Statesman. — London, England, 1820-07-18 00:00:00

r I 1 ii , • , A t A 3 ,f I . . , • • • • 4 . • 1 : ; 1. 3 1 THE STATESMAN. many grounds or plantations, where trees were rooted up and other serious injury done. Much valuable property might be destroyed in this way, and the pa hislat►►rnt ought to continue if persons were not to be Irt loose to do all the mischief they could. He should t►i.t of ject to an alteration being made in bankrupt 4 asps, because from long experience he thought it he cesury. He believed for forty years not more than t►ru or three capital convictions had taken place in saris cases. The statute of Geo. 111. which made it a capital felony to break down banks, ought still, he has persuaded, to be continued in force. Incalculable mischief might be dune by the offence which that sta tute contemplated. A man's whole property might perhaps be destroyed by it. Hr decidedly objected to the com Wien of capital punishment in cases of writing threatening letters. 'I his Hill provided, that 4..l:ate! punishment should take place only where the Iry ter yontained a threatening demand for money ; but. in his opinion, a threatening letter of any description o'►{ht to subject the writer to the heaviest penalty of Oa taw. He knew of no greater source of anxiety ! alarn► to individuals and families than threatening letters. His Lordship, after a few more observations, suggested to the Noble Marquis the expediency - postponing the third reading of the Bill that he might have time to examine its t•illy in the intermediate time. The Marquis of LArtspowst intimated the suggestion, and said, that lie thought tion fur life quite a sufficient punishment the oases mentioned by the Noble and Learned Tile Noble Marquis them moved, that sent to a. Lower House of Parliament the Omitoittee of 1519, appointed to consider the laws relating to capital punishntents. Motion agreed to.—Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mumesr, JILT 17. Mr. S. C. WMITIIIINAD presented a petition from Charles Pitt, of Adam-street, Adelphi, com plaining of a denial of Justice in the Court of Com mon Pleas.—Laid on the table. Upon the motion of Sir J. GRAHAM, Pellew's Di vorce Bill was read a second time, and committed. The'House resumed, and the Bill was ordered to be real a third time to-morrow (this day). Mr. •C. CA LyzaT moved fora Return of the Aggre gate amount of Fees received in the Court of Mouth-I , Iv irk, for the recovery of Small Debts for a certain' period of years. ile expressed his intention to found a 11311 on these papers in the course of next Session;' ald from au account which he held in his hand he ' , we, that for the recovery of only one shilling the fees paid in Southwark were 16s. 3d., a third greater than any where else. He stated, that the fees on the recovery of one shilling in London were 11.'4 6,1., in Fulwood's Rents, Ss. 6d., in Tower Ham let 5,. and in Vine-street, Westminster, 55. 9tl. lie aid not see why the charge in Southwark should sr 17:Veh exceed the charges in the places he bad just mentioned.—The Return was then ordered. bar F. Buirrox moved for a Return of the Number of the Hindu° Widows. who had been consumed in the fureral piles of their late husbands, fur the last ten years.—Ordered. _ Mr. Howe moved for Returns connected with the sum of 10,709/., which had been rnoimitted in 1794 to the hands of Colonel M'Malion fur the Earl of hilirJ, now Marquis of Hastings, and also a sum of 3,4001., which had been given to Mr. Phipps, Deputy Paymaster in the West India Islands.—Ordered. ROMAN CATHOLICS. —llt. Picsinarr begged to state to the House, that be had been entrusted with two petitions, one from certain parishes in Dublin, the other generally from the inhabitants of that city, on b:E.4I of tire Roman Catholics of Ireland. The tint petition was numerously and most respectably signed, nal deserred every consideration. The other was also rumerosislv signed, and, amongst the signatures were *ate of al of that persuasion in that metropolis, who sr, distibguished by rank and station. He might fairly state, that it contained the general sentiments of the Roman Catholic body of Dublin. He thought it right to apprise the House, that he would not bring forward limy measure relating to this question at pre sno, and be would give his reasons why he thought that such a proposition would be inexpedient. Ile felt, that while another great and important question was undisposed of, he would have been wanting in re .spect both to•the Parliament and the country, if he brAight forward any proposition which would in any insane? embarrass their consideration of that great qivsstion. Until that question was decided, he did not thick he would have discharged his duty if he had dune any Meg to distract the attention of Perlis scent sod agitate the feeliugs of the public.--{Hear, bear t) —But at the same time he felt that the inte rests entrusted to his care were of momentous import portanre. and he hoped that nothing might occur which would render them necessary to be lung kept back, and that he might have an early opportunity of bringing them forward before the House. In pur suance of that course, which, he trusted, would meet with the approbation of the friends, as well as ene mies---the political e:temies he meant, of the Roman Catholics, be would now abstain from further obser vation, and he concluded with expressing his hope, that as ha had now yielded to matters of so urgent a nature, it would be •admitted, when the question of the Room Catholic" of Ireland should come before the House, that they were persons whose character en titled them to a full and candid discussion of their claims.—(Hear. hear!) BARRACKS IN THE REGENT'S PARK. — Upon the motion of the emAticst.t.on of the Excns- i gem the Report en the Bill for the erection of these hsrracks was brought up. On die question being put that it be received, Mr. CALCILIIPT took this opportunity of renewing his opposition to this Bill. He was surprised at the peetiaseity with which this measure was pushed for ward by the Right Hon. Gentleman. He stated that the barracks were\mnecessary, as the troops might have the barracks which they before occupied. There was one thing of which he peculiarly complained. The rased upon which these barracks were to be erected belonged to the Crown, and is in the pos session of the Crown. The contractors, therefore, salad net bate possibly commenced them on their own 4* sad yet, not until after they bad been actually I\. \ commenced, was any intimaticn given of snch an eV, penditare to the House. it thould also be renialtabered . that these barracks were agreed for a irbout ally corn petition, save a circular letter, which was addressed to two or three other builders. Of this he was cer tain, that esery thing which could be foregone, ought to be foregone in the present state of the finances of the country. It hod been said, indeed, that if the troops were not in barracks, there might be great danger of a want of discipline among them. Bnt these very troops bad been hitherto in that very danger, as it was called ; and yet, when were they accused of a want of discipline? On the contrary,tkey had shown at Waterloo that they bad wanted neither discipline nor bravery.—(Hear, hear !)-.-If the House would throw back this agreement upon the Right Hon. Gentleman, it would give him such a unties as would in future render such contracts mach Mtn* &dean• tageons to the public. He concluded with moving, that the Report he received this day six mouths. Mr. 'l'. WILSON contended, that if the bargain had been properly made, the country would be barthened with the annuity of 3,4901. for no more than le years, instead of 31 - The of that annuity was is per cent., a ram which itant.—(Hear, bar!) gallery said, asst' it's Park red _ibe a materials colt ild fee were the woe* now the Hon. Member had whole question. What comps _ was, _men had been set to a work, which was to cost the public 70,000/. without the con sent of the House of Commons having been even asked upon the point.—(llear, bear!) The same Member, under the Gallery (whose alms we could not learn), asked if the works were to be now stopped, who was to pay for the materials ?—(Hear!) Mr. CALCRACT answered, that in his opinion the Ca binet were to pay for them.--(Hear! and laughter.) Mr. !ANNAN') supported the amendment. He con tended it was a fallacy to Pay that these barracks would cost the country no more than 5,400 a-year for 31 years. They must be kept in repair, and were liable to other contingencies which could not but produce expense. Nay, the whole amount of the annuity, would of itself cost the country 4,0001. a-year f u r ever. The question was then put, and the Gallery was cleared fur a division. Fur the °rights' question For the stuenshaent Majority in favour of the barracks After we returned to the Gallery, a great number of strangers rushed in, and in the hurry tunny of them kept their hats on. There was an immediate call from I Members in the lion se of—Hats! hats ! The Scotch Fisheries' Bill was read a third time and passed. Lord StnexTritAnLas moved the printing of certain papers relating to the intercourse with Ireland.—Or tiered. ELVICTION.—The Seism informed the House, that lie had received from the Clerk of the Hanaper Office in Ireland, a petition concerning the late election in Dublin. ' Tlii petklion was then read, and it appeared to be the petition of Mr. Grattan, complaining of the undue return of the Meuil,ers lately elected for the city of Dub was ordered to be taken into runsidera thin ea Tuesday fortnight. A . ploymedf in 1819. The petitioners complained of this dismissal, and prayed for some relief.—The petition w•as ordered to lie on the table. IRISH 1)I81 ILLERIRI.—Upon the motion for the sceond reading of the Irish Distillery Regulation Lord MOUNT' !WILES expressed a hope, that it was not intended to press the adoption of this unaware, without allowing the parties immediately interested in Ireland some time to examine its details, and an opportunity of communicating their opinions to the House. The Cisvccsta.oa of the EXCHIQVZII said, that it was not intended to presi the adoption, within this Session, of either the present or the two other Bills which were to follow, but merely to have them printed and then allowed to stand over until the next Session, in order to afford to all parties ample time for its con sideration. _ . Oeneral MKT complained of that part of the Distil lery Laws which prescribed the use of Pettinger's hy drometer in the small distilleries, while the large dis tilleries were exempted from that provision. If the use of the hydrometer were deemed necessary, in or der to prevent frauds upon the revenue, he could net see the reason fur such exemption, and the small dis tilleries complained of it as extremely unjust. The motion was agreed tot and on the motion that the Dill should be committed to-morrow, To a question from Lord Motaurcrans.as, the Cm:a:- CELLO:I of the replied, that the commit tal was proposed merely in order to fill up the blanks in the Bill before it was printed, and that it was nseant to propose its recommittal in the next Sessions, when its merits might be fully discussed. The motion was agreed to : and the Small Stills (Ireland) Bill, with the Excise Police (Ireland) Bill, were also read a second time and committed fur to morrow. A message from the Lords stated their Lordships' assent to several Public and to some Private Bills. The Itish Promissory-notes Bill was read a second time, and committed for to-morrow. Mr. IRVIN' brought up the Report of the Committee upon the Papers with respect to the claim of lieneral Desfourneaux, and after sonic observations upon the hardship which the (lemma had suffered, and upon the justice of his claim to compensation, gate notice of his intention to submit a motion on the subject at an early period of the next Session. Mr. 'Lomas expressed a hope that a claim of this nature, of 26 years standing, would not be acceded to without affording sufficient opportunity fur discussion. HER MAJESTY THE QUERN. Dr. Lesotstrrox said-1 rise, in pursuance of the no tice which 1 pee to the House on Saturday, to move an Address to his Majesty, that lie witm.' a graciously pleas ed to give directions that there be laid before this House Copies of all Official Papers relative to the Service of Plate presented by his late Maesty to her Majesty the Queen. In the year IlsOtt, his l ate Majesty was graci ously pleased to order, for the use of her Majesty the Queen, a service of plate. The service was made after her Majesty's own taste, and was presented by the King himself to her Majesty, for her use and enjoyment. The order came through the Lord Chamberlain; the service was paid for by the Lord Chamberlain; and till the year 1814 her Majesty continued in the possession of it, with out question or controol. At thatiseriod her M p a a le s s e tz was residing in apartme n ts in Kessington and upon her quitting that residence t h e plate was' delivered over by her to Mr. Math, of the Lori Chamberlain's office, with an expel', understasdiag that it wile the property of her Majesty, and that If ever AO returned to this country it would be reclaimed for her use. Upon her return to this country, her Majesty. bring literally without any one article for her daily ass. —(Hear, hear .)—was pleased that an application titoabg be made to Mr. Mash for the service of plate. Mr. MIA replied, that he did not conceive himself authorised to deliver the plate to her Majesty without the authority Fur the Lord Chamberlain. I. pen application being made to the Lord Chamberlain, that Noble Lord replied to the Lady in Waiting in the following terms ;—“ The I Lord Cfsautherlain availed himself of the earliest occa sion to bring the subject of the note with which he was honoured by lady Anne Hamilton. before the King; and it having been ascertained by official documents, that the plate is question is Crown property, his Majesty was was not pleased to hose any orders for rensoring it from the Jewel O ffi ce, where it it deposited." Such being the answer of the Lord Chamberlain, I trust 1 shall not be considered guilty of any indecorum, or of any breach of that I most valuable Order of this House, which prohi bits Members from adverting in any manner to the name of the King, if 1 treat the letter of the Lord Chamberlain as having received the sanction and authority of his Majesty's I Ministers. With respect to the course which has been pur sued upon the present occasion, it ',pears to me that t h ere are only two possible groat ads, or rather surmises, for they do not deserve the name of grounds, upon which his Majesty's advisers can have proceeded. The lint is, 1 that the plate was bona fide the property of the Crown; that it was never for a moment divested out of the Crown, and was strictly a loan to her Majesty, though she enjoyed the use aul occupation of it. In the first place, I shall require something more then bare asset-; don, to believe, that when the plate was delivered to her I Majesty, it was intended that she should only have a qualified use and enjoyment of it. Such a supposition is contrary to all past experience; for whew plate has bees ordered by the Lord thasniserlain, paid for by the Lord Chamberlain, and delivered to Princes of foreign Stake, and Ambassadors, is there any instance in which ouch a construction has been set up, or in which a detested of restitution has been mails ? Rut if the present was sup posed to be accompanied with any condition, it is a little extraordinary that the Crown should have thought proper to order that the plate should be manufactured according to the taste and fancy of her Majesty. In my humbif opinion it is not very oespectfal to the memory of his late Majesty, to suppose that he should have an speed any conditions to au act of bounty to her Ma jesty, to whom, upon all occasious, he bad evinced his most gracious favour and protection. tint admitting that there was an understanding that if her Majesty went abroad she should forfeit fur a time the use of this plate, I will pat it to the House whether, in -swon decency and common sense. it ought to be refused to her upon tier retort: ? Is it consistent with either justice or feeling, that because her Majesty is accused she should be treated as if she were condemned ; and that before anyinvestigation has taken place she should be thrown into a situation of degradation and disgrace ? Is it just , or manly to condemn her Majesty to • shorties, is which she is not only prevented from oojoylog bar high rights and privileges as a Sovereign. bat wins 1 from possessing those ordinary comforts to which an Ragftsla lady is entitled ?— . (Hear, hear. bear U— nsling, as 1 do, that the domestic commas of any broach of the Royal Family can never be pried Into with a rice and serutinisiag eye, without Isdinite Injury andiletriment to the best interests of the country. I treat she Noble Lord will spare use the necessity of present-I • t • • ling in this course, not by coming forw ar d of State, but by admitting that circ ease have been misapprehended, and _ wanee that an order will be insairdiatefr restitution of her Majesty's property. if this course be adopted by the Noble congenial to the feelings of a great House, and most satisfactory to the - try. I shall conchs& by moving, dress be presented to his Majesty, pre jeaty may be graciously pleased to dir laid before this House copies of all tire to the service of plate present, the Queen by his late Majesty, in used by her Majesty till her departure the year 1514. Lord CASTLLltaiiell..-4 regret very peoed to be absent when the tientleman first made this motion, more the course which the Hon. and seta has thought proper to adopt in flan. Before I come to this very - the internal affairs of the Royal serve, that although the H a m could not wait till I was peewit case of three weeks' standing. I understand, quiry, that so long ago as the I " Friend at the head of the Oovernwent timation from the Lord Chamberlain ' had been mad* as to her Majesty havinch r , plate, which was formerly in her respect to the plate in question, it property of the description stated Learned Uent, that it was no more in, ... late Majesty to give this plate to the Princess of than to give her the Palace at Kensington. it from being the property of her Majesty, that part of it is actually old plate of King I% which was used at the palace of Hamptem Com lh use of it was even restricted to Kensington Palat e , and this fact is very gravely and learnedly mined is the books of the Lord Chamberlain, " A list of .King's plate in loan to her Royal Highness tielhinewe of Wales at Kensington Palace." This is tie AM entry, and it is so specific, that if at soy img tha Princess of Wales carried the plate to any otbst Sub dente, she exercised a larger discretion than was me ranted by the condition of the lean. As to the eer vatiuns which the Hun. and Learned Uentheirailm thought proper to make upon the answer of tiel,o4 Chamberlain to the application made on thuswili n • i Majesty, 1 aus so far from thi ski mg that anewesilbst or indecorous, that I know of se ether ammo under all the circumstances, Lord Hammel et* bly have given. If the Hon. and Learned had exercised the common diligence which migt4s 4 petted from a man of business, lie might have that this was not the first time that her Majswg bar claimed the plate at the Palace of Keasiaptos as lot r . perry. When else was about to quit this comae/4th year 1814, she had actually ordered it to kielted and sent to the Continent, and if the Lori Clorobades had not interfered, it world have gene oat of theme. I try. If this had happened lam Nitwit*, bet peshp the Hon. and Learned limitless,' can Inform the halo, by what proceeding it might have been brought hack. In the year 1814, a letter was received, dated (Berens, September PS, from Sir William Udl, her Majestr's Chamberlain, directing that the neeeesary steps islet be taken to seed to her Majesty the i tle k 4 at sington Palace, without delay. The replied, that spies esteemee se the heels of the ANA, did not feel himself authorised to=it my pea tir ro ppert to be removed. Hie Ma 's Malden lass every lo a ff ord her Majesty wl r ate e er/. centrifuge is IterseseSsil emethrt; est I am i v rem that se MIMI will arias with respect to as arnoWe sleet et piste, wiles her Majesty has selected a mita residence; but I gonseapindeprecateeveryattempttelaw rate the peace et the rosary, by wantooly Travails( I dissuades et these painful tern. I feel that I hue already gem bey esil the sphere gray duty, into a iced of cireumalssess which ought to be eoreducted by the ale autburittt gibe Crews, aid sever to be made the sib jest of larSssmwtaey matron,. If the Homarihle fie Learned °isthmus had experienced any diffmilty comma ni calla/ with his Majesty's Ministers—if be field thefts inaccessible, he might have had some pretence for brin i ring forward this motion after the lapse of a felt. night. The letter of Lady A. Hamilton, whirls 1 rair not but consider as a most extraordinary prodectloa, is dated the Ist July. As to the assertion that the e late Is the property of the Queen, it may as well be said that the King is able to dispose of my estate, as that he was able to give the property Under these circumstances, I trust the House will cor dially join with me in giving a direct negative to this motion. of the Crow. to her Majesty. Lord Auenteat.o HAMILTON said, that the sets sf ownership on the part of her Majesty,furnished a strong presumption that her Majesty believed the plate to Ise her property. He would ask the Noble Lord vrbathor the peculiar situation of her Majesty was such calculated to give her any !swine expolbatiewsof Lice from his Majesty's Ministers t they had pursued towards her was me aMi,Mdeeulw of insult and degradation. There was seethe, eieseee stance, respecting which he wished to say a kw wieel. lie a Morning Paper, which maintained the epfideMet Iris Majesty's Uovernumut. sad which was isaderalled to receive their protection aid support, is had Wort claimed from one end of the kingdom le the other, no her Majesty stood in the way. of the public gerelvale' ought to be got rid of, either as a martyr or eerimisel. Ought sot tiovanovent to redress she wear thee im flirted on her Majesty? If they kid tHepower toilet% and yet refrained, were they not highly cvalpahlo NO repeated, repeated, that it appeared loom the noble lard's mo endeavour, that every step which had bees takes by ibe Majesty respecting %hie plate. wait taken under the is conviction that the lat. King had given it to her, ala that it was her own. Mr. R. MARTIN opposed the motion. Mr. llcycasxsox regretted that a sublet* Mt* Ma which had no connexion with the merits of the goal case, ahottld be brought forward in the present agitald state of the public mind. It was mach to be h mended. that a person of the Hon. and Learned Orono. man's respectable character sad talents thould used language which the Noble Lord opposite bid shown was of justifiable by the facts of the ease. Ai• veiling to what had been said by his Nebie Prier who had just sat down. et the public prom, be fell bound to say, that if Government poe seised the retry of punishing the publication of whet no man coehl read without isdignation end horror, and abstalasi from punishing it, they did not de their duty. Os thought the observations made by his Noble Primodii the paragraph which had appeared in The Here* roar perfectly justified. Nothing maid be more jab' feasible. Ile was himself a greet Mead to the lihrsti of the press ; out he must say, that in other. Pao F' "r an ) * 'Peaking , more respectable peldkatiess then I a observations, i instead of 31 years. The rate o expediency of fact se / three-quarters pe till to-morrow, he consider exorbii is merits more under the g he Regent d his assent to ' and other a rht transports- ! the would ask, • sent in any of , to be _warned Lord. I ti t- , r replied, that t a Message be strut* upon the very gist of the I t fur a copy of he complained of was, that men h ing forward with r t ei t nied lse c a rt: a i t ss a s u r ri n to : , • t el l, and by o:hg ropertr. Sore I se. to Noble Lord, it rip a grcat majority to the people of !ki t rin g , that an built. sty, praying that in t id to direct that ti e ,, of all official pape r' rp . resented to her It 'ty, in the yetr lqh rpartute from Eatils e i, • fret eery noteh that tfonoriahle and Len til notion, and 1 regret‘ lon. and Leaned r • dopt in making thi s very novel disetanist ryal Family, 1 ieo . or. r. and Learned Gestio4 root in the ante, llny I understood, 'p oi th e Ist Ally, ay Nts:l vernment rerri m i mherlain that ei amity Testy having u p 4 4 o k. , t her occupation I•, on, it Is so far hen stated by the Hoc more the intention of t e to the Princess of It Kennington. So to, her Majesty, that ten ste of King William 11l of Hampton Coin. lh THE QUEEN. The Sheriffs of London appeared at the Bar, and presented a petition from the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Commoners of the City of London in Common Council assembled. Mr. Alderman Woof) observed, that this petition was agreed to this day by a very considerable majority of the Common Council, only ten hands being held up against it. After stating that he entirely concurred in every sentiment which the petition contained, the Worthy Alderman concluded with moving, that tie petition should lie on the table. _ The petition was read, and was in substance the same as the Resolutions which appear in another part of this paper. On the motion of Mr. Alderman WOOD, the petition was ordered to be printed. Mr. S. WORTLIT, in presenting a petition from the assignees of Mr. Robertson, who was a creditor of Oeneral Burton's, complaining of the loss which they sustained in consequence of the General's release from the Fleet Prison, upon his election to that House, took occasion to remark, that however expedient it might be that the Members of that House should enjoy the pri vilege of exemption from arrest, after their election, it did not seem fitting that any Member, elected while in prison for debt, should be liberated from prison after his election, without granting some indemnity to any persons who might suffer thereby. Such, indeed, was his impresrion upon this subject, that he should feel it his duty to propose a law next Session fur the relief of those who might so suffer. Mr. W,Lssaroaca made some remarks under the gallery which we could not distinctly bear,. but we understood him to speak in favour of the petitioners. Mr. BANKcs observed, that if the intended proposi tion of the Hon. Member for Yorkshire should even be adopted, such a law must be only prospective, and and therefore could afford no relief to the petitioners. Mr. S. IVOR/Lev expressed a hope that it would he found possible to devise some means of relievim the petitioners, at least by allowing them to prpd at law. INSOLVENTS.—Mr. B. Barnearr rose, hi tekt, to present a petition from some Orions of whon had no but as a Member of Parliament he felt it his duty to lay it before the House. This petition was from the debtors confined io the Ring's Bench, and contained the expression of an apprehen sion that the Insolvent Bill, at present under the con sideration of the other House of Parliament, might not pass into law, with a prayer, that if such shrill be the case, the presto law might be farther coati red, fir the purpose of relieving the petitioners, who were ready to give up all their property in order to obtain their release from prises.—The petition was ordered Ito lie on the table. Mr. Alderman CURTIS presented a petition from the surveyors. tidewaiters. and waterloo's. assay of whom had. after 40 years' service. been dismissed Awn ems- . •