The Statesman. — London, England, 1823-05-17 00:00:00

Pim F , . , IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. • HOUSE OF LORDS.-.4?ItTDAT. . Lord DACRE moved for en account of the amount of duties paid on Malt since the year ISO:, up to the pre scot time.—Ordered. His Lordship next presented a petition from Royston, in Hertfordshire, against Slavery an the West Indies. ER'RDITTINT A RM. Sir GEORGE Hill, brought np . a message from the }Lune of Commons, stating that in the 'fi sh (I°Bl4 • Treasurer's Bill a certain clause that had been negatived on the Report of the Committee, was suffered by mis take to remain in the Bill ; add as it was not the intim- Rol of the Commons that it should forma part of the •Sill, they regoesteiithat the Lords would expunge it, 'The LORD CHANCELLOR said the House would • , .oest an.amwerhv menwngers of its own. - SINECURE PLACES. • , The Earl' of OROSVENOR called the attention of the :house to sinecure places, end places granted in revive . shun in the West) ndies. on.which• he said be would sib , • wilt a motion to the Home: - The Earl of LIVERPOOL observed that ttwee were . • no.ollees ht the West Indies' to Which duties were not aelsmbed. Serena offices which had been sinecures Were - Itholieheth• bermewthe parties who . had employed others to execute the doles of them, were now obliged either i. to to ttit: Weld Indies and perform thodoties • . selves. or Mier tlie'offires. • , Lord If IN olavreed that great Omen existed isr rot; *s:veet t0.!1ic.4, tent per fund. . ..Lord LIFER root, replied flat no nations bnA l lliall • -granted nut of tinst fund I'r a lone time. Lord OKOSVENOtt then 'nosed as Addrea Whig •Dial'ety. requesting his Msje 0, to give ilieeetions, that •;i : ••• • .tle.te he laid before the Moose an account of all offices "the Wells Indies, greoted. In reversion since the year ' 3S29.—Ordereil. • WE:MOTS AND MEASURES. ••:t• • • The , Marquess of LANRDOWN presented A ofirmeted • • • cull • of the petitiorrfroat:theCtiesteher of COMatereet • • • Illasgow, wide% In rotteeritiener of reformality the House . 0001.1 not receive- sin * fortneati, nesierit the Bill tb • , • 41efeee the Mabee forlhe regnlatlint of weights and mg* • . " eves. It was pot his intention:at this time to offer iffiy .7opilfon on the *scent mestsifrit: brat he conceived it ne-, eessary that a w i n of . 1 4 0 i Iniptritinct. involvinff ilea • ro• Mane grientiffc• principlei,,.shatdd not piss without • • . .• . the fullest attention and consideration of that fiettie ; • •• • • .sod he hoped that every Noble Lord capahlteftbrow inz a Eght on such a subject, would at the proelactime attend in Ms place and state his opinion upon it .He• shed moved that the netirion be heisted. The Earl of LIVERPOOL filly agreed kith the Millie rhlarqhells, that this was a millet of treat lisp . ..fence, and one upon which the }loam °le t out to : Proceed withn't the fullest consideration. There was a stand log order of that Honse, t h at 'no Rill iodating to tilde or. commerce should ie egsfl a OM lime before it tree:Ord sobrnitted s ‘lie consideration of a .Commit See of their 'Lordships. He did not exactly know whether tie Bitl io.gtesilad+rib 611 e of AltatldeieiGirtion. He Wadi,- -tinted to think le was. The stadding. (mitt was then . rend,•affef which. Lard •LlKEKP4lollbbierVed thrt whtiffer this Bill cadet's* der the order or not, the purpose would he fully angina ed By moting that it be referred to a Select Commit tee. It • was competent to their Lordsitips to order time :to be. rione.• Ile then made a motion to that effect. ' • Lord MELVILLE said that Conimissioners had been • aorinted by his Majesty to inquire into thesuirjfe . t, OE •Wevaghts had Measures. They had matte theitl2BieVdellhi .sad • lie thought it would he better to oilier titbit ile-1 loete•te be petaled, • mid then referred to a delektdoiti-! ;ninety., . . • •. ' Lord LTVERPOOL replied that the more aiiiireaient • connewatild be to appoint a Select Committee .Arst,•aad then let flylleblares:in stove forsheiteport. • • . rife "I'uoyellitew was then appointed, and the Rill was .referred to its consideration. IRISH M HAT' A. Ou the Order of the Day for the third reading of the Irish Reduction Bill, Lord GOSPORT complained of the great hardship which the Bill would inflict on the Noemommissioned Officers, Mho were to be seat adrift without any remonerathim being 'leen then. These patios' had vested claims, and it would t - be a great injustice to discharge them without any corn •pensation. The Eerl of LIVERPOOL justified the Bill. Those. he lied, who had served out their time would be entitled to their pensions, and many of them who had not. were unit 'for settee service. He could not see that there existed say vested rights in those parties. Lord CA,LEDON thought that it world he most cruel to the parties to cidestion to ditcharge them wlthoat any pro vision. Lord LORTON opposed the 13111. The House then divided. For the thirdreading, Contents. 18 Non couteuts, 9. The Bill then passed. 0:, the motion of Lord SHAFTESBURY, It was ordered that a Message be sent to the House of C 'tangoes requesting • copy of their second and third Reports on Weights and •Meseures.—Ordered. - Adjourned to Thursday. ROUSE OF COMNIONS.—FRIDAY. Mr. T. AMBTON presented s petition from Shields against any tax beiug imposed upon them for the building of Lon dm It ridge.—The petition was referred to the Committee on the London Bridge. SLAVERY. • 1 A Petition was presented from Staindrop, praying for the Abolition of Blavery.—Ordered to be printed. Mr. ASHCRST presented a petinonkfrom Chipping Nor. lon. prayingfdr relief froth Agricultural Distress.—Ordered to be printed. Mr. BUXTON presented a petition from 'Cromer, for the Abolition of Slavers .—nrderod to be printed. Three other petitions to the same effect were presented from Halstead, Exeter, and Nantwicb.—Ordered to be 'printed. • Mr. HUME moved for the Immediate return of several papers relative to Newfoundland.—Agreed to. Mr. HUME moved for a 'return of the public Revenue 'rollected'in the Isle of Mao, for the years likltautl lbw. — agreed to. Mr. lII'S° presented a petition from the Churchwardens And Overseers of the poor of Clerkenwell, against the Lon •b in Sewer Rill—Referred to a Committee on the said Bill. Mr. S. RICE presented a petition from the Chamber of Commerce of Limerick, complaining of the absurdity . of the -lews, which while they imposed a duty upon foreign flax, allowed the yarn trade frotu that flax to come duty free. and denying that.s duty may be imposed on foreign yarn, for the protection of the staple trade of Ireland. 'After a few words from Mr. HUSKISSON and Mr. ELLIS. the petition was ordered to be printed. Mr. BROUGHAM moved for a return of the Ogees held by Jbhn Wilkie late of the Tax Office, with the allowances and salaries of each.—Agreed to. Mr. BROUGH Mil seeing the Commissioner of Woods soil Forests in his pliketvvrished to learn if there was any 'foundation for the roman that the house now building in • Spring Garden. was for thp Paymaster of the Marines. i . Mr. HUSXISSON said, that that being a subject more lwasadiitely connected with the Admiraity department, he .segald glee uo decisive answer. The Registry . of Vessels' Irdiweat through a Committee. , • Mr. HUSKISSON said, that many objectiops hiviag • bees made to the admessurement clause, be would abandwg .iktirpteslent Bill. Honsebaring resumed, the Report was ordered ii:be takes into consideration that day fortnight. The Cochineal Duties Bill went throngh sti s Cadaigittlee, • .. Is law Report was ordered to bo received on ittoclgoodar moot !t.. et.: ' , Mr. BROUGHAM brought • Bill for esiblingwillisais srdel .was. whether brewers or sot. 11 beer sad ate by woe& ',4titarl a fi rst date, sad b• mil a oreoad thee .WO Friday next. \ . • • . *. - ''' • bbk THE ST, On the monomer Mr JOHN 130CGIIEY, the Mastert• and Apprentices ' Rill went through a Committee, and the Report was ordered to be 'welted on Wednesday next. Lord F. OSBORN presented a petition from an ladir i deal named John Clarke, of Skipton, Yorkshire, complain ing that Ito bad been committed to gaol for want of sureties, and received no compensation whatever for six hundred days of hard labour. • Mr. S. WORTLEY said a few words ; after which We pe tition was ordered to lie on the table. Lord F. OSBORN presented a petition from Mr. Martin 100, a Magistrate of Yorkshire, complaining that pri— soners in the intervening period between their committal sod their trial were subdected to the punishment of the Tread. The Noble Lord complained of the employinent of females at the Tread-mill, and wished to know I f the prnotlei was sanctioned by the Right Honourable Gentlemad (Mr. Peel.) Mr. Secretary PEEL said, that he could see no objEction to the practice, ender certain regulations. Mr. DENMAN thought that the system of keeping pri soners at hard labour before trial, was hi7hly objectionable. Mr. S. WORtLEY elnclieated the principle. end read an extract from an Aot of Parliament in support of it. Mr. DENMAN maintained that; by hew, prison pre could not be kept at hard labour before trial, except for the pay- If their food. ment of .neir too.. • • Lord MILTON thought that there was a material entre between thopersiihment in Gaols and blondes of Cor rection. Mr. PEEL' said that a proper distinction was always oh salved in the eons of persone convicted and those who were sot, so far as regarded tabour. The petition seat thenived, and ordered to He on the table. - Thl LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND moved that Me Commissionary Count of Scotland Bill be recommitted on Wednesday 'text. '•• Lord A. HAMILTON objected generally to the mutter in which the BIN was letrodseed. • • The LORD ADVOCATE defended th e - be taken with respect to the Bill. He eon a-peeped" the motion till Fridg, next: - 1110. HUME said-n to* weed*, and the BM was then Or detest to-be reemailitted on Friday. A petition was presented from the Inhabitants of Newel's- Ile-under-Line, praying for the total Abolition of Slavery 10 the West Indles.---Laid ma the table. ' ' Mr. HUME presented a petition from James Botcher, engaged in the spirit-trade in Scotland, complaining of harsh treatment from the Eseise officers there, and pray ing for an inquiryinto the facts stated in his petition. Ilia complaint was, that the petitioner, after being sour mooed, received the offer of a compromiee. The P.xcise officers were in the habit of suturnoning too many, and then, when they found their charge not **stainable, they offered a compromise. It was differeat In the Cnstnms, for there no party wasisummoned until the eplolon of his Majesty's Advocate for Scotland was taken. The LORD KDVOCATE said that he was not se quainter wits. the facts set forth in the petition.. - they were true, they certainly constituted a case of bee With respect to the complaints of the Han. Mew lwr in refereoce to compresuiees, it was his opinion that it was more convenient for the party summoned to sub mit to an award than to go to a Court of Justice. lie had no objection to the reception of the petition. Mr. H. DRU3IMORD 'aid he was glad that the peti tiern•was. presented. Tlte.facts stated to It. as well as the observation of the Hon. Member who presented it, irere well worthy of the attention, of the Learned Lord. The petition was ordered to ipt printed. 11L4VE TRADE. Mr. Secretary CANNING laid on the table some pa pers, which he said were additional articles relating to the power of capturing vessels found to be engaged in the Slave Trade. 'CH MI , BARON OF TH E EXCHEQUER IN IRELAND. Mr. W. WYNN brought up the Report of the Com mittee on the charges against the Chief Barou of the Court of Exchequer in Ireland, contained in the Report of the Commissioners of Inquiri into the Courts of Law ip that tonality. ". • Ile Report being laid on the table, Mr. S. ICI CE said that the propositions which he sub mitted to the House two years ago were fully a !stained by the papers now laid on the table. He had then stated that the Iteprt of the Commissioners of Inquiry into the Offices, Fees, Emoluments, and Abuses in the Courts of Law in Ireland, contained a charge of the most seri ous character against a high legal officer. Now that those propositions were affirmed after a most solemn examination by a Committee of that House, he hoped th.t government would not let the burden of the farther prosecution of those charges rest on any private mem ber, but would themselves take such steps as the case disclosed in these papers required. Mr. Secretary CANNING said he could not let pass, witboot a remark, what bad fallen from the Honour *hie Member. if that Honourable gentleman meant to say, that whenever any Member brought a charge against an officer, and afterwards got that charge affirm ed by a Committee, then the tfovernment ought to take on themselves the farther prosecution of it, he did not state what was in accordance with Parliamen tary usage. He did not recollect that when Mr. Burke brought his accusation against Mr. Warren Hastings, and got his charges affirmed by a Committee of the House, he then withdrew, and reqnired the tiro veromeot to take charge of the further proceedings. He did not recollect that Mr. Whitbread, when he brought his charges against Lord Melville. withdrew, and re quired the Govenuoest to take on themselves the further prosecution of them. lie would maintain that it was trot the duty of Ministers, as Members of the Executive Go vernment to take the charge into their owe hands. The Hon. Member was aware that he had but two courses. to purstmeither by Address to the Crown for the removal of the Individual, or by Parliamentary impeachment, both or tither of which were as competent to the lion. Member as to the Government. An Address for au int pee. hmeot would be better in any bands than in those of members of the Government, because it would be sup posed that the individual would-be borne down by the whole weight of the power of the Crown. He could tell the Hon. Gentleman that no member of his Majesty's government was prepared to take up this question. He euuld steak with certainty for himself, end 'he beHeessi Ile mig ht answer with equal certainty for his colleagues. It was, therefore, for the Hon. Member to consider whe ther he brought charges which be was not prepared to follow up. Sir J. NEWPORT said that those charges had ema nated froma cousinissiow appointed by the Crown, and Ministers ought not to refuse proceeding on them, now that they were suppotged by a Committee of the House. Mr. W. WYNN said that no instance could be found in which one Member brought an accusation, and when he got that supported by the Repor of a Committee, then withdrew, tit:tieing the prosecution of it on governutent. In such a case the individual charged might with reason ss his Right Hon. Friend said. complain of the whole power of the Crown being( directed against him. Did not the charge against Lord Melvillee arise out of a Com mittee like the present, and yet the Member who made that charge did not shrink from the prosecution of it ? Charges of that nature were always best managed in the hands of private Members but he hoped all party : feeling would be foreotten. Mr. A BEACROM sy said, that as those charges arose oat of au inquiry hy . a Commission appointed -by an Address to the Crowe, if they were to be prosecatiel by Menther of his able, which was the minority, it would :have the appearenee•of a patsy question, and would tall in gaining the attention and supoort of the Member, of Ibe . afinistitrial brothel. Mr, I','ANNINti In the face of the House and of the country. dirtied infetenee of the Honourable and Learned Cientleisan. fit did deciareAbat if titaido our- ... ....r :f~. TESMA* 1. able Member went forward with his charge. he should have his (Mr. C.'s) impartial attention. Re did not know the individual charged, nor had . . be any know ledge of the rate against him, but he would promise, .npon his honour, his most constant attention and nu partial hearing. He would not, however, have the busi ness now thrown on the shoulders of the Members of his Majesty's Government. After a few words from Mr. WYNN, Mr. S. RICE said that nothing could be more fair than the punctua attendance of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Wynn) in his place in the Committee, except the honourable manner in which he conducted himself in the Chair. He thought the originating the charge was one thing, but that the affirming of it by a Committee • was another, and altered the case. As to Mansell, how even, he would not shrink from the prosecution of the charge, although he felt be had reason to complain that it was thrown on him. . Mr, ABBRCROM BY explained. Mr. CANNING said he knew nothing of the charge— he caned nothing about the result, that he should regret 'a„bigla legal officer found be found guilty of any mal-prac tices to his office. Bat he declared that be had an partia- lity—no prejudice on either side, and if it were brought on, he would be a constant att.* law.' Mr. DKNMAN described the proceedings beforethe Commiuioners of Inquiry, and before the Committee of the House after. lie thought it was premature in the leading Member of his Majesty's Government in that House, to declare that no Miraister would t ake up that question before hewn acquainted witbthe contents of the papers on the table. The present was the case of a itruove able officer. It was competent for the Crown, on an Ad dress of the House, to remove him, if a easeful( peculation or abuse was mulcts% by competent authority. It *es not Hest before theywere acquainted with the contents of the Iteport.ter petineance that Ministers would not proceed, and he -how the night Hon. Gentleman would remold der that ltesolatten. Mr. CA NO explained. j aZ Mr. PRIM Om , said he would ask the Hcmoer 'bib et riber or Limerick, if this were a clear case, would heileeline proceeding with it? Tea Hon. Member probably mow found it to lee a bad cause, tad wished to • put it on Ministers.—( o, no.) Why did he then submit his resolutions if he was not determined to go farther? It would be remembered that all the encouragement the Hoe. ()collegian got {rumble late lamented Noble Frleud *hes he proposed those resolutions, was to hare been advised to let the charges be examined through the :bedlam of a Com mittee before he would proceed. But his late Noble Friend declined taking the case out of the Hon. Gentleman's hands. He did not see what difference it made in this case that the Commission was appointed by the Crown pennant to se Address front tie !louse, and not by Act of Parlia ment. The Hod. Gentleman ought to explain his reasons for deellning—he :nightie state whether he found it too di:- Beak to proceed. or that he had charmed his opinion. Mr. RICE denied that he changed his opinion. After a few words from Mr. Pitt 1., Mr. R. smut' said lie was inclined to acitiieses in the opinion that Ministers ought not to take this question on themselves, but they ought to see if there be no oth-r course besides en Address or an impeachment. His motion was that "motiler mode could be found more effectual than either. It appeared that since the Act of the First of the Tate king, the Judges enjoyed their °laces by patent quasi dim se benegestierit. The very words of the patent implied that the enjoyment of office was to last only during good conduct. Has notion was, that such a palest might be an nulled by a rare faelas. There was not, perhaps, any di rect inthority om the subject, for even Ireland never fur nished an example of such corruption as this Learned Judge was charged with ; bet though lie found no direct authority he could state to the /louse a case that bore on the present. It was a note in p. 9. Cro. Ca. to which was added a 'armo r modem. that 0 Baron Walter, • Chief Baron of the Exche quer. died lately at Serjeauts' Inn, a good and Learned Judge. Attempts were Nis& to remove him from his office, Lbut he would not take Ratios of may proceeding except by stirs Atlas, mil sb he continued to Vedette hit salary of Chief Oaten Wilke end• of his life." He thought it was worthy of the attention of Government to consider whether there was hot any other made besidea the two already pro posed. Mr. CANNINasald that the observations he used refer red to either of the proceedings by the /loose, and not to the course suggested by the Hon. Gentleman. Mr. WE CHERELL was of opinion that the Act of Par liament superseded the power which the Crown formerly possessed. He did not mean to repudiate the ingenuity of the Honourable Member or the authority of the case cited. but he thought that it was throug3 the intervention of Par liament, and not by legal process a Judge could be re moved. Mr. SMITH explained. Mr. HUME said, that there never was a ease where his Majesty's Ministers prosecuted a person accused of bri bery. The questioa he wished to ask was, whether such a charge as the present being proved, and no individual Member undertaking to bring it forward, should the Go vernment suffer an unjust Judge to remain in the seat of justice ? Dr. LUSHINGTON did not think that his Majesty's Mi nisters were called upon to bring forward vexatious charges even in a case where others, Members of Parliament, refus ed to interfere. The matter c mid not rest where it was ; It became the duty of the lion. Gent. who first called the at tention of the House to the question, to bring it forward again, and leave the House to deal with it as they pleased. It was of the utmost importance, that the principal Judge of Ireland should be allowed to remain in his place with such a charge hanging over him. Mr. CANNING said, Hit were true, as the Hon. Member for Lincein said, that there were other modes of calling a Judge to account besides through Parliament, it thre.v a new light on the subject, and altered his opinion of the inde pendence of Judges. IRISII TITHES. Mr. GOULBURN moved the Order of the Day for the House going Into a Committee on the Irish Tithes Composi tion Rill. On the question that the Speaker do leave the Chair. Mr. V. FITZGERALD said that he was anxious to take the earliest opportunity of declaring his opinion on the Bill. He would not be deterred by the thinness of the benches, or the absence of those Hon. Members who were more particularly interested in the state of Ireland He would apply himself to the principle of the Bill, which seemed to bars been, by common consent, reserv ed for the present occasion. His objection to the Bill was, that it would operate to increase the discontent of the people, and to increase the revenue of the Clergy.— To the latter it would nut only give an equivalent for this tithes which they had, hut an equivalent for tithes which they never tbougbt of claiming. The main objection be had was to one particular clause of the Bill. If it had been a mere clause attendant on the execution of other clauses, he would , not have opposed the Speaker leaving the chair. To make the clause plain, be should state that Commiasioaers were'to be appointed for the valua tion of tithe property in perishes, by special vestries on the one hand, and the incumbent en the other. The flict was, the special vestries could not be appointed io most parishes. • The valuation of those commutations was to be made on a fair avera ge.of the receipt of the incumbent for a certain number of years. He could nut ohj.ct to that •, bat the claque provided that, if the Commissioners could not agree, or appoint an umpire within a certain time, or in. any other special case, it may be lawful for the Lord-Lieutenant to appoint a person, not an owner of tithes, to he a Contanissfoner for all the purposes of the Act. The House-would see that the Bill, having takrn the tint principle of a valuation for a certain number of years., by the receipts of the incitmbent„derrted from ill in the clause which he opposed, by giving the Lord: Llent.oant the power to adjudicate the tithe, without- 1 ' any reference to the receipts of the incumbent. The its ' 1 aumbeot, it nut satisfied with what lie had received.' I or• wishing to inake any additional claim, all he kW to tto was sot to appoint aVointoiteiOnee NA his part. The intsatitto of the 444 might in thomarlis defeated, it a • _ - ~~~ '4 • 1 was obvious thct the prate would arise o; the part of the Clergy,* also otillos plat of the parish. The Hon. Gent.theo enfered into k further detail of his objectionto the Bill, and also into ao examinetion of the evils of the tithe system. . He certainly was partial to the principle of making the tenant pay the Clergyman through the medium of the landlord. lie thought it conduced to the peace of the couc try, that the peasant and the Ciergymeo should come in col- Usinuilatas little as. poaslide. Kuehn .W.ialdd.tlatt protest against auy arrangemeat which would have for its object any Increase of the property of the auroh. Ile was un willing to go Into drilla'. but the House might take 1;19 ; word, when he asserted that the machinery of this Bill was totallyeimpplicable to the South and South-Western pav e of Ireland. Ills main objection was to one part Mae clause. The llieht Hon. Gentleman thee went through the provisions of the Bill relating to the formation of vostriee e and the appointment of Coninilssioyers on the part of the parishioners and of the incumbent. 'reey then came to a clause which provided, that If within a given time either of the parties held out and refused to make composition, this Lord Lieutenant should have the power of appointing a Commissioner to decide upon the amount of compeuetaiort for " all lawful tithes." without reference to any receipts whatsoever. 'this was to be the alteruaiive erre where the Incumbent refused to appoint a Commiesiener in the first instance. So that if he wished to revive dormant claims whir; he bad not thought of making himself. lie had bet to objet to the compositioa and they world be granted to hint by this power. Ile coneiderod Ow Resolution of tee Irish 'loose of Commons of the year liSte as a spoliation. of the Church of Ireland. With regard to the Potato. Tithei, he believed it had been rarely exacted in Ireland, though it had recently been demanded in a few iiestancee ; and tie dema nd alone had caused a strong feeling of irritation. lie object ed. Iberefure, to a valuation being taken on the mere dor mant right of taking this tithe. lie wished that the Catho lic occupier should pay tithe in the shape of rent to the landlord; but lie objected to any measure which should pro fess to accomplish this, and yet should hive the effect of in. creasing the revenue of tie Church. He themeht, too, that it would be impossible to come to a fair valuatiou mauler this Bill without a precious new survey. ladeed he thoeght the whole measure would have beets better had it been preceded by a Parliamentary Commission, to aseeitaliethe value of the different lisditss of halted. At preien-Abepeeceeding would be principally of a parochial Maim: ill Mould re. sist the motion for the Spexicer leaiing . the Choir, though he did not think it n ssary for him to divide the Ileum e l iou it. He really trusleit'tlar House would very greyly consi der the importance of this Bill; for if ii were once passed, it could not lightly be altered. It was a Mill, in hie opi- Mon, intended to relieve the country,leut which would base the effect, In many instances, of douuling, shit in same of quadrupling the Incomes of tire Chatty. He implored the House to pause before they proceeded with a Bill, against which the Clergy protested, and woieli would nut g; ye mes e f action to the people. Mr. Of/ULM-TUN declared hie conviction th a t the Bill would not be attended by the evils ims t eined by his Right Hon. Friend. He bad never denied that the tab. ject was surrounded by difficulties ;• bet, under any cir cumstances, such a measure is the -present Must ahea6 i be liable to. objections. He inereiv called upon the nous , to say, whether it was not a Bill as free from defects as it possibly could he, eunsidering the nature of the subject: and whether such defects as it really did contain could not. in a great measure, be rein 'died by a dismission of l's details in "Committee. Indeed, in the foist instan c e, he haul wished to have per niseion to carry the Bill, pro forme, through a Committee, and: afterwards to present it to the House with such amendments as Might bt hand adviseablr. This, however, hal been objected to by theta,. who Mere opposed to tile principle of the Bill. The House were aware that, in general; the tithe in Ireland fell upon the poorer ealtivatonsof flies:oil ;a dreariest e which brought the clergytnatiintddßeert contort with his parishioners, and conyed , al hint either to forego the principal part of his income (derived from several mall sums,) or exact the payment of that incolne with apparent. harshness. There were other evils arising from the mode of col wing the tithe,anit the apieati,roara; whether zee turning of the tithe into a money payment would not rue tribute very materially to remedy these evils. Ile was aware that in Ireland there would always be objeetioas to the local administration of parish :affairs ; but this was no argument against their endeavouring, as opportunity offered, to remedy this defect. lie was aware, too, that as the Bill was originally framed, it *mold be particularly difficult to form a vestry. The qualifies- . tion stipulated was too high; for there were many parishes in which no person laid 51. tithe annually, which was the amount originally fixed. But, surely, this was a defect which might be remedied in a Cum. mittee. And if any lion. Member world point out to him any eligible amendment, he should must chrertullv adopt it. The first object of the Bill was, a voluntary adjustment, by bringiag the interested polies togeth r I. The objection of his Right lion. Friend, however, was principally directed against the subsequent part of the Bill, in which there weeesoma compulsory clauses, his denied that this part of the Bill sanctioned auy invasion of property. When the public good called for forcible taking away of private property ' public justice called for the giviug to the individual a fair equivalent; and this was the principle by which the compulsory part of the Bill was regulated. Still, if any interim:lute process between the voluntary and the compulsory mode email be suggested, he should be glad to hear and dis miss it. He was surprised at the allusion made by his Right Honourable Friend to the tithe of agistinent, for it formed no part of the compulsory provisions of the present Bill. lie would forbear enlarging upon a va riety of subjects on which his lion. Friend had des canted, because he was anxious to get the Bill into the a.;ommittee, to have the •advantage of that full discus• sion and emendation which it would there receive. Ile hal no doubt it would come oat of that Committee in such a form as to reconcile all hostility against it. Mr. WETHERELL objected to the bill on the ground that it would not be a voluntary agreement on the part of the incumbent, but a compulsory surrender of his here ditary rights. The final result of it would be to compel the church of Ireland to forego its freehold territorial right to tithes fur a compensatory payment in money. He contended that the principleva whim the bill was fOuntl• ed was perfectly novel, and of that extraordinary nail re, that up to the present day no oatesman had ever h ea bold enough to advocate it in Parliament. He cou:d not consider tile bill as one that was calculated to produre conciliatory feeling in Ireland, neither could he s•!e Iww the Catholic would have less objection to paying big tithe to the Protestant clergyman in a definite sum oleos ney, titan he would have to paying it to him in kind. Ile likewise objected to the Speaker's leaving the Chair upon this ground, that if the bill were allowed to stand over for sin or twelve months, some plan might be devised in the interim for making an amicable ad- Justment of tithes between the clergy and laity of Ire. land. On every ground he must oppose the passing of this bill ; indeed lie was sure, that it its provisions were applied at present to the church of Ireland, a proposition worthd be made, in the course of the next S ession, to &Pelf thaw also to the church of England. Mr PEEL said, that his Right lion. Friend (Mr. I% Fitzgerald) and the Hots. and Learned Ovutleasau who lead last sat down (Mr.lVetherell) seemed to agree onliin one point—namely, to get rid of the bill if possible. He protested against waiting fur further information iron Ireland, because be was sure that no information of a ny value would be obtained. As to the compulsory objected to, it did nut necessarily form part of the bill. — He was prepared to support that clause; but if it el: lust in the committee, the bill might still be passed el, out it. Th w argument of time. Hon . awl Learned Gear . man (Mr. lVetherell), if it went team/ thing, went to IV declare that no commutation IAA weak amt a: avast nature poliition of right, could take places let if all under th e auldces of the legislature. tommatation'amoupted, in a measure, to spoliation, int chaise