The Statesman. — London, England, 1818-03-05 00:00:00

14. was found that thnie papers Mere still in esictetice, ' lied it was hardly possibly to yo into a country shop without meeting with sumo of the returns ender the Income Tax, with all the cirtaila of the property of intlirideals,beittg used and citculated as waste piper. This was complained of, and a circular was written for the destruction of the originals, after copies had teen taken, tot. the ramose, as it was said, of regu lating the-testi:sty rates and assessments. However, be did not know whet. was done its consequence of Ibis circular. lint he had again been. informed, that some of thesecepies were seen in the country, under similar circumstances to the preceding; and he, in consequence, put some questions to the Right lits 'Stowable Gentlemen a short time ago, which not being answered eatisfictorily, induced him to give I notice of his present motion. It was, indeed, said, that the copies cousained only the items, and not , tiara's ; but it was evident, that the assessor, or ai 'neightlear, into whose hands such a paper might fall,' would have no difficulty in discovering that it was the return of A B, though A B was not upon the schedule--L Hear!)—Sa far as these documents were usefel to rising the rate of the county assessments, the sums total of the parishes would be stifficient for that purpose; mad, therefore, that could be no good reason for preserving copies of the Returns India - thistly. He should propose a Committee to enquire what steps had been taken in the destrection of these Papers, to which, he understood, there would be no - opposition. Ile could tint help saying, that he was ,afraid of the effect of the Circular, because it was is sued to a refractory department.—(llear, hear ! ) He did not mean to reflect on the Hon. Gentleman his private friend; at file head of that Department ; bet lie thought the esperience of the House would bear him out in saying, that there was an indisposi title in the Board of Taxes, to a prompt attention to the orders of that House, or to facilitate any of the objects entertained there, touching the affairs of that Board. He begged also to remark, that witS - the s Property Tex, a number of Sinecure Places had been' collected, chiefly those called Inspectors, whose bu siness it was to whip up the Tuts, as it was called, to a greater retorts, when money was much wanted at the 'lreasury. To these persons, salaries of nine or eleven hundred pounds a-year were given; and when the Tax ceased., considerable Pensions were bestowed on them. It was 'possible, then, that these persons • would not be very zealous in destroying the vestiges of their former libbers. In proof of what he had said with respect to the Commissioners of Taxes, he would remind the House, that on 3d Feb. last, a Return was ordered, on the motion of his Hon. Friend (Mr. Bennett), of the &levies and Pensions of persons em ploy ed,or who had been employed in that department : and it was not yet before the House. Had this order been received by the Board with ordinary. .good.will, the Papers might have been furnished in half the time. But he understood there was a tone of feeling in that office, unfavourable to the House, ever. since it had destroyed the Property Tel.—Ulcer, hear 9—He knew that its one part of the country a house was still kept, to preserve the Property Tax'Returns.— It Might be that the names had had a pen drawn across them. or a little scratching had been bestowed upon them; but they were still legible, and the object 1 for which he had so frequeutly addressed the House, •nd the Howe was anxious to accomplish,' WI! thus. defeated.— (Hear, hear rj—la several instances shopkeepers bad sent oat their goods,, wrapped in these Returns ; end when a Gentleman midis en quiry how these papers were obtaiued, the Shop.' keeper said, Oh, if you will go to such a place, you may get the returns of any body, or ewery body, if you like. The fact was, a Collector of the Pro perty Tax having died, these Returns were sold for waste paper. The Hon. and Learned Meesei con eluded by remarking, list the Right Holt. Gentle . matt had ofteu lamented the loss of the Property Tax. to the House ; but he was persuaded, that there was not now one in ten throughout the criuntry,•-who would join with him in that feeling.—Lllear, heai i). r ----He then moved, that a Committee be appointed to . enquire what steps have been taken to destroy the Returns of Bodies Corporate autl of iudieideals, en ; der the I , Tax. r .ncome The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER , said be had given no promise to assent to the motion, es he found it was to be proposed to the House ; and he thought the enquiry would would not tend to any beneficial effect 'whatever. lie was sure the charge against the Tax-office department could not be sus. coined, for there was no want of alacrity in furnish. ing the returns ordered by that House. If the Honourable and Learned Gentleman would loek into the Vole.olfice, he would find, that the papers or dered on the 3d of February, had been presented, _ and were ordered to be presented on the 10th.- -[Hear, hurl —They had, in fact, been presented long ago. Ile did not wish to enter into the general argument, upon the policy of the Property Tax, be cause, whatever had been the advantages of it in war (and be would maintain, that it had been gteatly in strumental in saving the libertiei of the countryh he bail no intention to propose it iu a time of peace.— [Hear!] —.The arguments of the Learned Gentle man, therefore, were entirely unnecessary on that, point. In the neat place, he had discriminated he. • tween those papers which ,were dune with, and Oboes which were not, but called fur the destruction of thaw all. The fact was, that some of the arrears of the Property Tax were not yet paid, and be regretted the destruction of papers which had already been mode, for much mischief had been the consequence, and many frauds might have bees detected, had they still existed. He bad no wish, nor had tho'fax. office, to keep these papers longer than was neces sary for the settlement of the accouuti. The returns un der the schedule H.,which related to commercial pro perty, ought to be destroyed : hut if he were anxious ' to retain them, they could be of little nse now, fronri the great change which has been effected in commerce, in the Ater years since those returns were made.— . Tbe returns oti•laeded property could never be con nected with the question of secrecy; and they were necessary in the regulation of the county assessments. There was 11111, from two to three hundred thou. sand ponds remaining to be collected of the Pro perty Tax ; and he trusted the Haase would see the propriety of withholding these returns from destruc tionoill it was all paid. Ile should therefore oppose the motion. Mr. BROUGHAM, in explanation, said, that with tegard to the papers ordered on the alotiou of . Isis . Hon. Friend (Mr. Flew ma;ion from the Order .T! ,Cli AIticELPD p 1 47 Obi Gov rail. -Vole-officer; • I Mr. BROUGHAM iu depending open the out, if that was erroneous, - men at the table the justir first time he hod known ' Mr. GRENFELL ' Learned Friend in bellec f Toon were not - much Ai; peard . to obey the of the House. He cupid not but congratulate the country, on the declaration of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that it was never grin, lu time of peace, to be ellicted with thot odlNe mesoure, the Incotise Tim—Peer, hear!]' • '‘, Mr:CALVERT complained, that much inennve nience hall been suffered from the severity with which f . the Assessed Tases were lesied ; and stated, that the assessors for 'Twickenham 'and Isleworth had' Stied "the rats, without , haring made a previous survey. Stranger, wereordered to withdraw, when Mr. BROUGHAM again rose, and expressed his astenisbnient at having his motion treated in this way, tther what had passed, which he. must then state in bit oattn_defence.--[//ear,itearq—Otte of the Right Hnh. tinder'Secretarits of State had asked him wl et! . was the natvie of his motion ? Upon' which he gave it into his hand, and he took it across the. Howe to the Chancellor of tbskEitchequer. He shortly came back, without stetieg, that if the Committee were sot moved to be appointetllhat eicht,thercoteeld be no ejection to the first motion. • (Mr. B ) had ton sequently told his Meads, who asked him if he should take the sense of the HOuse on his motion, that it would not occupy five minutes, as no opposi tion was intended; be had therefore been the inno. cent cause of many Members leaving the House, who would have spoken on the question, had they known that it would be debated.—( Hear, hear!] —Under these circemstances, be must move to postpone the debate to some future day. M r. GREN explained. LAMBION hoped some eeplanation would begiven of what be conceived to be very extraordi nary Conduct. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, be could have no objection to the adjournment of the question ; but he was bound to state the rea sons of his present conduct. Ile had said, that if the Learned Gentleman would postpone the naming of the Committee till they could amiably settle that point between them, he should' hove ne objection to the motion ; bet as the Learned Gentleman had not expressed his acquiscence in that arrangement, be considered the treaty between them at en end.— (A laugh.) • Mr. BROUGHAM ?tidied, that he received the Right Hon. Gentleman's Ambassador very kindly— (A laugh}—and treated him, as he thought, with the greatest candour. The principle of the measure was not objected to evidently, and he thought it strange that it should be opposed on account of a minor consideration. Mr. LA M TON Bold, that he L. 4 . right to ag. some, from what had passed, that the Chancellor of the Eacliequer was willing to agree to the motion, till he found that the Committee which his Hon. and Learned Friend intended to name, would carry a majority against him.--01coe, heart end a laugh.) The debate was then adjoerned to Tuesday. itEroßm. Mr. Alderman WOOD said that he had a Petition to present from Leeds,.deprecating any Indemnity Act, and praying for Reform. This Petition, he felt it his duty to the House to atife, contained some eaptessions of a peculiar character: bet ail's under stood that other Petitions containing'similavi expres sions were received by the House, that whiclrhe held. in his hand would not probably be objected Still he thought it right to state the expressible, to which he namely, that the system by which that House was constructed being the bane of the State, the only antidote was a Reform, according to the principles of Anneal Parliaments and Universal Suffrage, upon the adoption of which it then would be an Honourable House. This Petition also prayed for the impeachment of the Ministers by whom the Suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act was proposed, and the powers created by that suspension so grossly, abused, adding, that unless Reform were acceded to, the Petitioners would not be able to pay the in ordinate tales to which they were subjected. The Petition was received, and ordered to lie on the table, as was a Petition to the same effect from G. Edmond', the Chairman (as the Petition stated) of a Meeting couvisting of '20,000 persons, at Birming ham. The latter Petition prayed the House to take its stand bet wean a despotic Ministry anti an enslaved People.—Both these Petitions were ordered to be printed. Lord ALTIIORPE wished tn know when the Noble Lord (Palmerston) intended to As in's! tAe . Committee on the Mutiny Bill. T • Lord PALMERSTON replied, to-mortises. . Lord A unioapE then gave notice that he Avoid take the opportunity of the commitment, to move a reduction in the army, of 5000 men. Sir M. W. RIDLEY presented iwo Petitions from Newcastle, in favour of Reform.—Laid on the table. THE HANK. Lord A. HAMILTON rose to bring forward his promised motion upon the subject of the Batik. At a time, he observed, *hen it war evidently intended to continue still farther the restriction of cash pay ments by the Bank, it was, in his opinion, the duty of the House to tool; to the condeet of that ego. blishment with peculiar care, as well as to the pro ceedings of the Minister, who was so intimately con nected with it. With a view to understand the con duct of the Bank, he felt it necessary to move for Copies of the Notices issued by it for the payment of certain of its Notes in Cash within the last year. A . pretty general impression prevailed, that those No. tices were issued merely for the purpose of delusion, and to induce a belief that the Bauk was in possession of the means, and was in the progress of preparing to resume( its payments in cash. It was therefore doe to the character of the Bank, as well as to the satia. faction of the coantry, to eaplain the motive. and end of those Notices. It was now clear that there was no intention of resuming cash payments. A plea was advanced for posyogiog that desirable measure) ^. • ~ .._ _~ _~ point, and intettal or . f u rther postponemsank of cash pa)ments. : As to the benefit to Governottetio by the piament systetm with the Batik, would the Right Hon. Gentleman sky that the plan of Exchequer Bills last year had not hens 'fitted his views, and the Bank advances also? Let the House look closely at this asettdr, elitism -how the account stood. 'I he Batik admits** to' Governinent np to the sth lineery was 18,000,0001. 'Their is. sues in - the same' period 29,000-,0001.; of these the private discount! could _not, from -the high rate of interest charged in proportion to other means of raising money, have amounted to more than from 1,500,0001. to 2,000,0001. This state of things could got continue, and cash payments be res ume d. It was, therefore, with a view to ascertain etiethe r the issues still accumulated that he called for Os sei errant, of the last month; if,. on their appeos u ed the same increase should be forrini,ls onaht ow, re, (visits for him to watch she eetidoct •olf the naught the month to come and if then the 'tame syslted should continue, it would' be clear that the plea tg resume. cash . payments was nothing else than a merg juggle between the Chancellor of the Escketeir and the Bank.—[Hear:] —.The Bank Directors should know that their Charter was Om not flay: Lively for their own private emolument, or to shoal; their subserviency to Government but to keep the . metallic ceerency of the country in a wholesome ;state. Whether the present play led to the towel ' Med speculations Its the funds /Pet forth in the daily papers, he could not say, but it was quite elect. that ie& speculatiorts cool.l not be stopped unless some desisive step were taken. He hoped that hikamthsa Mould nut, oily .bei carried, but that sOme,4ol the Bank Directors would state why. they had not fi► strictest their issue for the last Id or 18 Tooth.; it they refused to do this, and shattered themselies, le • they often did, in sileoc., solely depending on OM majorities of the Chancellor of the Exchequer; why then they must not complain, if people., who looked at these subjects, formed their own opinion on the motives of the parties engaged in these granulates), and on the consequences likely to result from them.. —[fkcsi - .]—The Right Hon. Gentleman th en move d, that the account of outstanding Benk.noles and,Post. bills should be continued, to include the hoes from the 3d Fehtuary to the 3,1 March. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER though he had no objection to the motion, could not accede to the proposition, that a reduction in dip issues of the Bank, in the, manner suggested, would have the beneficial e ff ect he contemplated. On this point he would refer to the'esitlence of Mr. Pearson before the Cominittee, which had this subject melee consideration. Mr. MANNING, on the part of the Bank Cot minion, disclaimed any desire to withhold informs. Hors on any part of their public businesi. The Di recrws had nothing to cloak or conceal under the shelter of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, 'end they were ready to justly the whole of their conduct in plain and 'unequivocal manner. The Right Ibm. Gentleman 'had intimated that the Batik increased its issues -largely after the close of list Session. It would here been candid to have said that the ply. *tient of the current interest on the 3 per CenvCon. sous, which became due in July, moan after Pistils• anent had adjourned, gave that appeerance of in. , creased issue on which so Much stress had been laid.—(fieur !) Mr. GRENFELL admitted there was en increase at the particular period, from the circumstance el. luded to; but then his Right Honourable Friend bad not confined his remarks on the increased circulation to the mere issue of one month—(llear, hear !) on the contrary, he had taken en average of leveret months, from the first•period of the accounts up to the the latest. and said, that the increase wee between two and three millions. lie (Mr. G'renfelt) go further, arid say, that it bore beyond this propor tion, in comparison with 'any preceding year since the stoppage of cash payments-in 1797. On the sub ject of stock jobbing sibieulatione, it may not be in the power of the Right Hon. Gentleman to prevent them ; but his sys:eut.had certainly a tendency to en courage them—is had, in fact, created every sort of gambling speculation to a greater extent than was previously known. The uncertainty as to the re sumption of cash payments, was the great sooty of all these transactions. . With a view to pet an end to them, he would put it to the Chancellor of the Eze'kequiPts as a metal men, to declare openly and ontline of his financial intentions, which would have the effect of suppressing . this rpecelative spirit. Does he mean to fund Exchequer Bins, or not # if he hsd'decided, what nbjectiun cosid be nave to state that decision ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in reply, warmly challenged enZ person to prose that kilter he, or apy person, in his confidence, had indicated soy financial init.:dints which could hare the effect of countenancing or encouraging any of these reprehensible speculations. Ile had no die. closure to make, and he a ould lesee it, to ,the Hon. Gentleman to determine on the propriety of his, at thit moment. communicating Wormed's'. of a prensa tore sod unprepared stature. Mr. TIERNEY was sorry to see the Right Hon. Gentleman lose his placid and usually serene temper on this sohject.—(4l laugh.)—lle repeated his tore mer observations on the necessity of the Bank tablet some decisive . steps relative to their affairs. He spoke new in friendly confidence to the Directory, bet in the ensuing month,, if they persevered in their pre sent career, he must necessarily call for an enquiry (and be now gave notice of suck his intleotior)ie open hostility to their proceedings, and cell on the House to mark their sense of them by a specific Re :olatinn. General THORNTON hoped the Bank weld take proper pains to make their' notes, so as to tea der the forgeries of greater dilficalsy than they noll Were. The motion of Mr. TlER:lElrib* lieu ag• siti to. • PENNON - 8.. - 0n the, motion of, Mr. frOaDES, Acceent , gets ordered of the amoeot of "Peniloni'peid to wellmied Officers in the Navy, distinguishiug -the rsuk Ike/ held in the Navy when the vroundt'were received, cud their present tank) together teijkAbll WV° I the cases.- The other Orders of the Dsy Were than rends and. the House adjourned. • THE Sr .A Tir,sm • Bennett), he had got Ms iitfer- negociatione lO yowl Bork nu 1b tabte t at - tl4. 4'. beiiefed 1 Juelll-oEnce. OR ef the 'llf7eCiftQ Way! irrire that there was 1 great deal Of c Itlfeleo *Peg kill 1040 saes tins etraotry about tans e frale ago, . now tittle Was' tit" fetind in.i maintained that he was right culaf notwithstanding the boasteg issue of c authority of the Order Book; f " Bonk. tt;i'q ties" wee, however, he apr Eras, he . west do the Gentle- .ittieid bet iiry, trilling ; and. that the country I mice le say, that it was*, stotluch reason to rely upon. the professions or p n them to bolo error. ore of either ,he Directors Of the Bank or concurred with. his lion. and Cluliellgi Of the i'lliehequer, tilt to the probabilitj ieritig, that the Commissioners therediosal of the Restriction on cash payments ch di*Pt;seit to obey the 'orders Belt was for the Bank to show 'Whether any, _14.3 A/ f di point, and that, in fact, there was nothing IN • It internal or external state of th* country 14v...require !oPeitti t cash o Ont $ . in ci r. boasted issue of cash , however, he appre that the country had the professions or pro- Of .the Bank or the to the probability of on cash payments. — Belt was or Whether any, and whi beneficial effect had arisen from the steps it was repaid to have taken to prepare for the resumption Aptyments in cash. This was the object of hit einien, and that motion could not be resisted by We; such grounds as were advanced by the Chan rein of the Exchequer towards the close.of she last Solon. At all events it could not be constantly re eked, unless it were shown that some injury woold :aeon to the Batik from its adoption. The Noble Ltd concluded with moving for a Copy of any No., tit issued to the Public by the Bank in the course of tb year 1817, respecting the Payment of its Notes' is Cash ; together with a Statement of the Amount W the Sums for which the Bank had become liable, lad also of the Sums actually paid in consequence•of each Notin of Notices, op to the latest period at which the same could be 'node out. The CHANCELLOR of the. EXCHEQUER said, the Noble Loyd might easily have anticipated an opposition to his motion, as the question had been so fully eritued last year. Theefficacy of the means for the resumption of cash paiments depended on their. proreeding silently and secretly; and disclo sures would but retard the object which the Noble Lord was so anxious to see accomplished. The Bank was prepatiog, by partial issues, for a gene -tal payMent in cash, which he had no doubt would b effected in the fila' list mentioned, unless they were interrupted by causes, over which they, nor the Government of this country. had any controul.-- An exposure of what the' Bank had done, or was doing, would be highly impolitic. Their progressto cash payments must be easy and imperceptible; and the end would soon be accumplishen, if the policy of foreign Powers did . not interfere with the plans in operation for that purpose. Mr. • G RENFELL made a few observations in fa vour of the motion. The noose then divided, • , • • N Peg A)411 . hlninrity ;la** the httrion Yi Mr. TIERNEY rose to make a motion which had some connection with that just disposed of, and to which he understood there would be no objection.—, His motion was for a continuonce of the accounts al ready agreed to, of the weekly amount of Bank notes and Post-bills for the last year. They had been at present given up 'to the 3d of February, and . he wanted them to be continued up to the 34 of March. He would pot now discuss the main quest. -tion connected with ibis subject; but. he should wish to call the atteistion of the House to the - state .of the riank mod Ito paper teacups. Gentlemen, ho ap prehended, would see the necessity of examinbig whether the Batik had or had not taken the proper preparatory steps to 119101110 club payments. Ile !avid not deny that they had collected a large stock in bullion and specie—but he contended, that onleas they met the time of payment with a reduced amount of paper issue, it would be in *Rio for the Public to expect cash payments out of any stock vihich the Bank could be supposed to have. He believed the Batik Directors meant to deal fairly and plainly with the Public; and he thought that the present Chair man of that Corporation was a thorough-bred honest City merchant, actuated by the most ho nourable views, though not perhaps up to the chicanery of money-speculating tricks ; but yet notwithstanding the good character of the patties., there was something singular in their arrange. manta. Whatever differences of opinion might prevail on this matter, be believed there was one thing quite clear, namely, that cash payments would effect a great reduCtion in the paper issue. Nothing was further from his mind than any suppo. siAioa that good would arise from a great and sudden withdrawal of the Bank.notes in circulation, he should be very sorry indeed, if by any cash arrange. menu one of thorn were to be taken up nit the sth of', July next. Nothitit could be bene fi cially done, be l agreed, except by a progressive exchange .f notes fur money ; whenever this .period errisen - e Certain degree of inconvenience must accompany it; bet the great thing was to see the Bank seriously contem plating this payment and acting with due precaution. Now to his astonishment,' so far from toe Bank.act ing in this manner, they had done the very reverse, for they were actually continuing and segmenting their paper issue at the moment they should be doipg the reverse to effect the ash payment,they said they bad in View. this - was evideut *from 'the retinas of their issue of Bank-notes. Tbese commenced in S•ly, 1816, and be would divide them into three periods. For the first'sla months ending in December, 1818,. the amount of notes • issued' was on an average 86,300,0001.; for the neat six months,"entlitig in July last, when cash payments were said to 'hive been partially resumed, 27,400,0001; - ; and now, to the otter astonishment of every body, the issue for the last six months was 29,560,0001, There might be a reason for this increase, awl he hoped the Bank Directors *wild give that season. Only see 'the progressive, increase of Bank-notes issued, io. these successive half yearsi in the first period the increase. was a million; in the second 1,880,0001.; in fact, the average increase of last year's issue, as compared with preceding ones, was poles, than 2,890,0001.4 so that during this time, when it might be rationally expected the Bank were preparing for cash payments, they had been taking a' steady course to prevent the possibitity of their hav ing the power t• realize any such expeztation as that which they had held out. Thy end -sioulri be,' that, going on at this rate, the piper issue would be:iuch as to frighten out of •his senses any man who called for.casb payments, and the , Directora - would -way he was mad who called for them. under such' circlets staoces. The Right Hots. Gendeman opposite id variably said that via accionmodation of the Bilik to Government had any influence in the decision on this II . *: .. _ . .- • I. t f` 1 • , ) e i f l'\