The Statesman. — London, England, 1815-03-14 00:00:00

Tl-1 P: FA.' I' ES.I4AN: to y Member was fully satisfied with the afters- rangement *4l left principally to him, but lee Was o f the Magistrates to this duty since Monday suddenly ceilid•ssff on receiving infermation of, dans 1. So disturbance had since taken place in the gerous riots ist . other parts of the, town. 4 . l!there •abo ut hood of the House, and there was no com- had been atty-Fault, it was a mere error of judgment: „f of protection for Members, an- but the congdt• of the 'Magistrates in general was : r part of the city they had all to lament, thnt in marked by thegreatest zeal and alacrity in the axe , oufortuttate instance it had been necessary to call cution of their'sluty. ow m ilitary power. As he conceived that the Mr. WIIIII'BREAD said that it had been by no :g ips' object vs hich the House h a d i n view, in means his intention to lump all the Magistrates to. for the examination of the Magistrates, was ;tether in his charges, although the Right Hon. Gen ..:,l„ined, he thought that it was unnecessary to tleman had thnupt that the lumping them altogether ny further notice of the subject, and that it was the best way of defending them. ~0 1 ,11;e better that the unfortunate .occurrences of Mr. lIIMMEHSLEY thought that some steps „s ou ld be buried in oblivion. He, there- ought to be taken by the House, in consequence of , that the order for the attendance of the those disgraceful oeuurre.rees. ~;5 • • be discharged!. i Mr. BEJ f't ER hove testimony to the . , lIT Mt Fat D was sorry to be under the exertions that lie . nitnesams in the constables on tat ,„i t , of bringing back. to the recollection of the evening. 1 1. ev idence which w e ns taken on the night in Sir C. MONCK was not aware, that in the late from the nature and eifect of which he con- riots the mob had shown troy disposition to burn the inotion of the Bight lion. Gentleman, for houses or destroy lives. There nal, however, a alder being discharged, w as by no menus such a verdict now held out against those who defended Min as the House could agree to, with.a due re- houses, and. be had not heard of any one person to its own character and interests.—[(feat !]— being arrPstrd • who attacked the m . , e eight Hots. Gentleman, however, hail not con- • Mr. H. A DDINGTON said that there were at le.l h i mse lf with merely moving, that the order least 10 persons now in confinement, in consequence „Id he discharged, but had intimated thot the • of those riots.• • igistrates were without blame; and, by a panegyric' Mr. WROTTESLEY thought to some of the a their subsequent conduct, seemed desirous of •Magistrates tonte',degree of blame attached. He on ce wiping out all recollection of their .prertioea i thought tbae some - tponitory advice, at least, should -dings. Now, what was the real histo r y o f th e i s be given 644410 to have more method in m „ s ti oe ? With repect to the precautions taken, : his arratigometils fotlliejtippression of riots helve vei l the nart of the Secretary a Stales Ind' -that of.; t .teee. - .llo4kobete, , Sehas . Irßothe remits hid beets spea nothing Fuld have been more proper 'alma ht the'beginning of the tumults, cr elisebteto their aigilance; but, unfortunately, ; they would have been snore easily suppressed. As lose precautions were rendered'nugatory by the con- he had 50 constables in attendance, he did not see tof the Magistrates to whom the execution of the why he should rely entirely on the Bow.street Ma ulers given was intrusted. Notice, it was seen, had • gistrates. The conduct of Mr. Baker was certainly given to the High Bailiff of the possibility of a ' entitled to every praise. When he saw what things lame, and of the propriety of his being prepared were written on all the walls, he could have no i t h proper assistants to prevent as much as possible doubt but that the police, with moderate vigilnoce; pemicious effects. But what was his conduct ? • might he able to detect some of the instigators of by he issued summonses in the usual way for eighty ; those riots. persons to attend, of whom about forty obeyed his ; Mr. 11. ADDINGTON said, that the admonition sanuons. lie had no account of those persons, recommended by the Hon. Gent. had been, in fact, however, and seemed to have adopted no •method given to the High Bailiff, the day after those occurs with regard to their organization, and not one of ; settees. He had been recommended to adopt a more , the witnesses nlio were examined seemed to have ob- ! methodical arrangement for the future. served the existence of any o u t r age, at a moment when I Alderman ATKINS stated, that on a former oc one Member of the House justly complained of being casion when the peace of Westminster was disturbed n e a rly rode over by a dragoon. He thought the by serious riots, he found it almost impossible to col :414111y which had been displayed on this occasion lect above 50 constables at one time. Although he s i.ould form a subject for a very rigorous enquiry, as summoned many, yet they, in general, sent excuses, S e eras convinced, if the constables, of whom it at). and he had no means of punishing them. paged not less than one hundred and•fifty were in , After some further conversation, the question for saendauce, hid been properly mustered and judici- discharging the Order was put, and carried without cash' directed, at an early hour in the afternoon, all a division. necessity for the interference of tke military would ; Lee been obviated—[ hear, hear . 1 ] —and if it was rot probable, it was, at least, possible, that all the thsgrareful scenes which had taken place would have beret presented. Under this impression he could not concur in the vote which had been proposed by the Right lion. Gent., of passing over conduct lightly, silich tie could not but view with great jealousy in ver.ons to whom the protection of the House % ac intrUgNi. lie !hon.ht, with a view to the time to ~ n e, it was est.ential that something like the disti l >. rovlistlon of the House towttsda the conduct of the Yisbistiatea should he nernifested. Mr. BAT i RST stated, that the High Bsniff had trui.g:it a coesideratsle number of his own m.tistables to the itrotection of the Members ; but that „hen the Police Magistrates at-lived, he relied on them for the t:,:iagement of tee Civil Power. At the very however, when the Civil Officers were guarding' the aseinies of that House, riots were taking h:ace in other pouts of the town. The Civil Officers, •,owever, were not Sufficiently numerous both to ro ta, the avenues to that House, and also to protect '':embers coming down to that House, from the dif ferent parts of the town in which they resided. Mr. WYNNE thought that the reason far post poning the discussion on Monday was, that tile coil. tinuance cf it would be detaining the Magistrates from the etec , :tiott of their duty. Ile certainly thought that not the slightest blame could be attached the Secretary of State, but it was evident t..at in some part of the Civil Power there had beet' a Ie- TREATY OF CHAUMONT. Mr. F. DOUGLAS was astonished to find that no - ,inson had y Pt been taken into custody on account el the psoceedifigs on Mouthy. It was extraordi truy tltat such disgraceful pi oceedings should take I.l4eno%ithout any person being likely to be punished Mr. BENNE 1"1 . concurred in the commercial opening with Synth America. But he wished to know how the political relations of this country stood between the Old and the New NVorld. Ile wished to enquire whether any mediation was ten dered betmeee this ci untry and Spain, relative to the revolt (jostihAle as he conceived it to be) of the Spanish colonies in S,mih Americo. The desolation in the latter country was horrible. Evi , ty engine which power and ctuelly could invent, was browitt to bear agLinst the inhabitants. But the principal point to whioh he wished to advert, was the aid which this country afforded Spain in her Trans-Atlantic ex peditions. lie was far from suppoFit,g that this country bad a right to take a part in the dissensions betmeen the two countries; but he knew that it had no right to afford succour to one of the parties.— Now he did know that at Cadiz every tri,:terial which constituted an expedition, had been sent forward, even under the eye of Sir Henry Wellesley, to effect the subjugation of South America, and that the equip ment was at the expense of this country. Ile also knew that the Pattiots of South America was refused protection by our Officers at Coracna and Trinidad, and that they found it with the Black Prince Petion, at Sr. Domingo. The Honourable Gentleman warmly urged the ill-timed character of this policy, and could not refrain from asking who was the Minister who dared to advise such a policy ? Who also dared to advise the transmission of the Order of the Garter to the King of Spain, and the acceptance, by the Prince Regent, of the S, , anish Order of the Golden Fleece ? What was, in fact, he would ask, the nature of the existing Treaty between the two coun- Mr. LOCKHART certainly did not wish for any ensure on the Magistrates upon the present occa sion. Ile believed, however, that it would be right to fern) some better provision for the security of the yeare is fotore. He should wish to see youtrg, vigor. res. 4iirl healthy constables, iirstead of marry of the de..ayerl, and decrepid persons that be 431 V nit widly last, who • wet e evidently unfit for the fatigues arol hazards of such service. Even those old and feeble ptrseris ha.l the vanity to be jealous of one another, mid the Bow-street constables and others could not agree among themselves. Ile thought that there ought to be arrangements for calling out the - Irouseholders to suppress tumults of this nature, be fore they had got to an alarming head. Ile ttrought this the inure necessary at a lime when Juries had in their verdicts thought proper to promulgate abstract Opinions, which they called law, but which was nothing like law. As to a soldier's using the weapon in hi, hands to repel an attack, it did not depend upon any abstract principles to say what that offence waz : it depended altogether on the peculiar circum stances of the case. The law says, that if a man truirig a deadly weapon in his hand, only uses it ill a "so of extreme necessity, and when he is driven to the wail, it is not murder. Lord Nlanstield laid dow u the sane doct:ine es applied to the military. Ile, therefore, conceived it extremely dangerous that ab stract opinions like what he had stated, should be maw promulgated to the country as the law. Mr. H. ADDINGTON thought that it would be hard to pass a censure on the Magistrates, for not made the best possible or, augement on the irst day of the riots. The Chief Magistrate of Bow street had been in attendance that day at the Office 'd the Secretary of State, but on beinq informed of ttle t. , multuous proceedings in the avenues leading to the House, voluntarily repaired there, from his zeal to et:Assets those tumults. When be came ) the in. tries ? The CIIANCELLOIt of the IaCIIIc:QUiEIi thought tee ,:uestions of the lion. Gentle Man so re mote from the subject before them, that be would only deliver an answer to one of the points which had been urged; namely, that of the mediation of this country between Spain and her colonies. It had dose so; but he denied.that, after .giving liberty to the ad World,' it had lint itself - to the siihjuga: lion of the New. With the latter it should be the wish of this country to stand well—yet It had also an obligation to maintain' with the former; hot he denied putt it had interfered in' aiding Spain against her Colonies. Mr. WHITBREAD thought it essential to ascer tain how far aid had been given by this country to the present detestable Government of Spain, in the expedition to her Colonies.' Had arms, equipments, and military stores been forwarded through• the eta ertions of t Is country, to quell the justifiable reedit (as he she t t it) of the Colonies towards Spilt ? I t It was of im portance to know this fact. It was MO essential 14) know who invested Ferdinand VII. with the Ordettff the Garter, who was himself, in.fact, a usurper Against the Cortes, who gave -him regal power. And more material still to ascertain who advised thi/ Pritice Regent to admit the interchange of mutual friendship by accepting the Order of the Goldeif Fleece. . 'the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER. dis avowed that illy such assistance had been givri to Spain, fol,the subjugation of South America.—With referent* io the treaty with the King of 'Spain, it had been executed according to the acknowledged forms which the Corte's recognized. Mr. BENNETT repeated, that such supplies had bean sent from Cadiz. Aldernstes ATKINS enquired, whether it was ietend • to abolish the South Sea Company alto ge!her. • .... The ... ANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER re- A, plied in negative; bet the intention was to take the monopoly nut of its hands. Mr. PONSONBY thought the question was one of great importance, and the measure was of that character, to which he would not easily assent, with out the previous consent of the parties, whose in terest it affects: Without at all ;Omitting that they should trench upon the existing treaty with Spain (which ought to be held inviolable), he could not overlook the deep interest which this country ought to keep in sight, with reference to South America. I Mr. WYNNE complained of the breach of hospi -1 tality cojnmitted at Trinidad and Coracoa, and could not see Row this conduct was recoucileable to the pretended neutrality of the British Government. He was surprised that the Right Hon. Gentleman should treat the Order of the Garter as a mere ceremony. It was a distinction sgtsieh had not only been courted by but refused to foreign Princes during the present reign. It had been refused both to the late wild the present Kings of Sweden, and had net been before worn by any Spanish. Monarch since Philip IL On a question from Mr. WHITBREAD, relative 'to any interference on the part of this country, in In answer to a question from Mr. WHITBREAD, favour of the Spanish fugitives confined at .Ceuta, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated, that he hoped the Treaty would be prepared, stated, that no opportunity would be lost to make and laid before the House to-morrow. such an interference effectunl. Mr. WHITBREAD hoped it would also be' A long conversation then ensued between Mr. printed. : Finlay, Alderman Atkins, and other Members, upon SMITH sEA ACT. ' the differeot Resolutions moved by the CHANCEL- The CHA NCELLC R of the EXCHEQUER A.Olt of the EXCHEQUER, who stated in eXplana- . moved the Order of the Day for the House resolving tioe, that it toss not intended to impose the new ex i et° a Committee of the whole on the South Sea Act. port ditty . of 2 per cent. on the exportation of fo- Tbe Right Hots. Gentleman then entered into ass his- reign linens, that a duty on export was preferred to t mica! retrosVeit of tae South Sea Company since' one upon import, because the tatter was already its formation its the oth year of the reign of Queen sufficiently burtlionod, and that' it was not intended Antic, to the present period. They possessed ori- that the duties collected under this Act should be v,lnally the exclusive privilege of trading to all coup- i perpetual, but that they were to he limited entirely tries lying bets% een the Riser Oronooko and Cape Ito the creation of the fund for discharging the claims Horn, and on tho whole west coasts of America.— i the company. It was matter of notoriety that the company had not prospered, and the ohject of the present measure was to obtain a surrender of the exclusive privilege, to be purchased by n compensensation which he ap prehended would entail little or no burthen on the country. The stock of the Company amounted to 3.500,0001., beating an interest of 3 per cent., to %hick was to be added a small fund, on which an In terest of (lute half per cent. was payable. For the discharge of these sums he had to propose the .estit blishment of a guarantee fund, to be provided by a tonnage duty of Is. tid.. arid on export duty on goods shipped to South A tuelica, of 2 per cent. He did not (Idols tl:e British tvetchant would consider this as too Isttgo a comities allot' for the advantages re sultiog from sot open trade with South America. — .. Should those duties prove tttlequate to the purpose, the public would be at no charge whatever in this re moval of a Yen. inconvenient obstruction. WAYS AND MEANS. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the further consideration of the adjourned Report of the Committee of Ways and Means. Mr. TIERNEY did not rise to enter into any thing like a general view of the financial plan sub mitted by the Right Hon. Gentleman. What' he wished to understand was, upon what ground he was now asked to consent to an amount of Ways and Means so much larger than the supply that had been voted previous to the recess. A supply of 21,000,0001., including the army and navy, had been voted ; and towards providing this, the sum of 18,000,0001. had been raised. He could readily see, therefore, why it was proposed to continue the war taxes to the amount of 6,000,0001., but the Ways and 'Means now proposed amounted to a much larger som. It arts his belief that, under the last Act for raising Exchequer Bills, Government bad issued them to a very great extent, and had taken credit for aids to be afterwards voted by Parliament ; and that the present Budget contained some of these aids. lie bad stated before the recess his apprehension that the Chancellor of the Exchequer was then taking credit for the Property Tax this year, and was pro posing to issue Bills on the credit of aids not yet granted, and not then in contemplation., In no former Acts were Ministers empowered to issue Ex chequer Bilis to an unlimited amount, and he trusted the !louse would not agree to any further IVays end Means before they knew how Ministers had used this power, and what was the amount of Bills that had been issued from the Exchequer. At present there was no ground whatever laid to induce the House to agree to the new taxes beyond what he admitted to be an able view of finance, and an entertaining speech from the Right lion. Gentleman. The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER entirely concurred in the principle, that no sum voted as Ways and Means should ever exceed the amount voted previously in supply ; and he hoped to satisfy the House .and the Right Hen. Gentle. man, that he had now proposed no such irregularity. The Right Hon; Gentleman, in his statement of the sums voted by the House in the early put of the I tiesaiOn ' 'had omitted the sums for making good old ExChequer Bills,'of 12,500,0001. and of 15,000,0001. making a joint sum of 27,500,0001., and a total of j 51 million and a half of supply for the pres:nat y ear. I —To meet this 'charge 31,000,0001. of Ways and ! Means had been granted, leaving a sum of twenty millions to be provided for. He was pettedly ready to admit, that the Exchequer ought trot to antici. pate taxes before they were voted : but the taxes he now proposed amounted only to between nine and `ten trillions, of which about 3,500,0001. were new, and the remainder the•former War Taxes. Mr. TIERNEY contended, that a great issue of Exchequer Bills had been made, which depeeded en tirely on the credit of alds not yet grove& /he , s., ...- ... ,..1mift d•-" i t efi 01 jvit• 'll6lt her u ol i h o inapt 3:I 411 ,0111 rp ;°' )11. ooit • 'w!! • p Jule ( lion rd to n ied !mold bgi,tr pot' once .eedi iosart fro thi the Spea ocredi4 these pr du( t of elders been giv tumult, With pr.( I le! Di W hy he I • I 1 r • Right lion. Gent. was pursuing the Same course adopted in a time of war, now that the Pcnpsrty Tax hadoessed, and the War Taus were only voted from year to year. He did not meat to i Anita *es , thing wrong, but Was convinced that the Parliament would forget its constitutional jealousy in votiug away the public money, if they did tibt insist ott further enquiry. The CHANCELLOR, of the P.ACHEQUER had conceived that he had got rid of the dilliculty started by the Right Hon. Gent. It Was a miscon struction of the Act to suppose that it conferred any power of issuing Bills to an unlimited amount, or be . yowl the Ways and Means actually voted. All that ' it did was to enable Grivernment to issue Excliegtnr Bills in anticipution of the produce of aids granted by Parliameet. Mr. TIERNEY said, the whole watts question of figures. The Malt Duty and the Consolidated Fund issued their own Exchequer Bills, anti unless there was an account of the amount issued shit° the lest Supply, the House was left completely hr the dark. The CHANCELLOR, of the EXCHEQUER should not object to the production of the account, if moved for. As the House would not presume an. irregularity, he had trot thought it necessary to lay it on the table in the first insiairce. Mr. PONSONI3Y declared his intentioh tb ob.i jeet to bringing up the se a port, until the House wet informed to what purposes the sum now asked for was to be applied. A Peace Establishment was here proposed of nineteen millions, without the Right ; lion. Gentleman condescending to communicate the slightest information upon any one item of the ex. penditure whirls it was meant to defray. The Ch ANCELLOR. of the EXCIIEQUEft. could not presume to anticipate the judment of Par liament, before any estimates were laid sir the table but, by agreeing to the Report, the House gave ne., opinion as. to future establishments ; they merely provided for supplies which had beers already voted, and he considered it advantageous to abstain from eu.s tering into subjects not before the House, and upon which they possessed so little information. • Mr.-TIERNEY said, that the whole calculation was founded upon a Peace establishment. He did not wish to anticipate the question; but if the House should vote those taxes, they would recognise the plan of the Right lion. Gentleman. It was imps. Bible to agree to five millions without adopting Iris system of a Peace establishment. He hoped, how. , ever, that the Right Hon. Gentleman would not press new taxes, till the House were better informed of. the situation of the country. The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER replied, that by agreeing to the Report the House did not pledge themselves to the whole or any part of the plan lie had suggested : they did no more than provide for expences which were indispensably ne. cessary, and lie thought it proper that these taxes should he submitted at a time when other taxes were 1 about to expire. According to the arguments ,of the Right lion. Gentleman (Mr. Tierney), larger sums might be wanted; but if he could place himself 1 for a moment in his situation, he could not impose Iless onerous taxes. Mr. TIERNEY asked the Right Hon. Gentle: i man, whether, if he only wanted five mi:lirers, Ise - would think it right to resort to his present measure ? I It was proper that the House should be fully inform :ed upon the subject. He was sure, that the Right.4',.. ' lion. Gent. wobid see he had not taken any factious • I, objection, hut farther explanation its absolutely tie- ' cessary. The Right Hon. Gentleman, therefor*, should devise some other mode, and leave it to be : discussed when the whole of the supplies were to be voted. I Mr. PONSONRY would repeat the grounds of Ihis objection. The Right Hon. Gentleman having i stated a certain motion, and told the House that .19 millions were necessary for a peace establishment, , then desired them to adopt his plan, without enter. ing into particulars, and showing how the money I was to be applied. This mode of. voting supplies at , different times was what he most particularly ob. jected to, stud he protested against it as au itirsova• ' lion npon forraer practices, and altogether uncoil. stitutional. Sir ROBERT HERON observed, that the plan ' of the Right Hon. Gentleman was in direct typos sition to the interests of the nation. For what pus. pose were we to threaten the countries around us with a fear of war ? He must protest against voting supplies to such an amount, without insisting on one 'resource, —he meant that of the most strict economy which ought to pervade every department of the Go. vernment. Alitsisters, if they consulted the treu. quillity and happiness of the country, should militia 'the Illustrious Personage who exercised the goy.td I Functions, to limit his expenditure; and should in :form him how far more glorious his days would be, were he to reform his expences to the wants of Isis subjects, instead•of encreasing the enormous awl mi. necessary charges of an extravagant Court.—[.lleur, hear!] -4t was not long since, that the nation had admired two illustrious Sovereigus who ." .courttry,• and the cause of their having rece : much approbation was, that they had ene greatest privations in limes of public dish was a conduct worthy of Imitation, and take the liberty of recalling to the recol the House the words which William the TI of the best of King's, had addressed to liament. " It alwayGgives me," said that t nerds, " the deepest concern to impose thens on my. people; but I have never any which related to my.personal expeaces. hear !] ' Mr. BENNETT observed, that Minister told the (louse a syllable.as to the real sir the country. It was not Os intentention at to make any comment o n., the taxes, but w came before the House; it would ,he his oppose them, for he objected to them all. sidered it proper to abolish situations where pay without services; and, indeed, to put meat itself upon short allowauce. 1 Mr. P. GRANT protested against voting plies, without having a -distinct and comp 1 statement of the wants •of the -country, those wants were to be supplied.. It was ! of the Right Hon. Gentleman, that the II ; net sufficiently' informed, and, therefore, Icould•be attached to those who. objected. tO sores. . . ' '4. 4 ••• • • • , visited onr received s ndure(l the tress. This be would ►llection of Chir4, t .• one o hit Per. great Mo. new bur_ called for s." [Hear, era had not lituation that time .hen they Is duty to .lie e thee. was kpforetTa- ng the sap- )yreltessive *n4 how ,the rawit limns was Ivo OMNI D pea .• . . riff 111 33 lit . t. to