The National Register. — London, England, 1820-05-15 00:00:00

GRANIPOUND.—Lord J. RUSSELL moved for leave to bring in a Bill to exclude Grampound from exercisiug the right of returning two Meinhers, amid to transfei that right to the Bo' ough of Leeds. He proposed to invest the right of voting in persons rated at 51. and upwards, and to the holtabitants ot the neigh bunting villages, anion siting to about this ty. The inhabitants amounted to about 70,000, the windier of Coleus, it Was expected, would be about 7,000. His main object was to deprive a convicted Borough of the elective franchise. He concluded with :nosing for leave to bring in a Bill. Mr. CANNING admitted the correctness of the prin ciple that a Borough convicted of corruption should be disfranchised—bur protested against its being interred that lie approved of the transfer to Leeds. He also pro tested against any general principle being drawn Irons this specific proceeding. To that he should be no party. He asked for information whether it was intended that Itlrampoond should be heard by Counsel? Lord J. RUSSELL answered in the negative, the case having been investigated by Parliament. Motion agreed to, Bill brought in, read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Friday selinight. THE Queme.—Lord A. HAMILTON enquired whether there was to be any provision made fur the Queen, and when it was to be proposed. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied, that provision for the Queen, as well as other branches of the Royal Family, would be proposed. TIIE LATE CONSPIRACY.—Mr. Alderman WOOD rose 'to move for a Select Committee to examine Charges of High Treason against George Edwards.---The evidence had come before him as a Magistrate. He had made every effort to induce the highest authority, the Secretary ut State, to inlet fere, but in vain. He had thirty depositions, which be should deem it his du y to read, unless be had a Committee; but lie hoped a Committee would be granted. Edwards was the person who suggested plots, and sup plied money, weapons, &c. The worthy Alderman said, be should persevere, except the authorities would inter fere. Threats would have no effect ou him.—The case was similar to that where he had rescued three men from destruction who had been trepanned; the ditterence herr was, the increased atrocity oldie crime which the parties were seduced to commit. He then proceeded to read the substance of the depositions which detailed minutely the facts. Sir R. WILSON seconded the motion for a Committee, condemning a Spy system, and maintaining that no Admi nistration could be good which might require the aid of any such system. The SPEAKER then pot the question. Mr. BANKES said, that such a motion ought to be sepported either by some case of precedent, or some analogy in other times ; or it ought to be founded on the urgent necessity e4' the case. The motion was totally inconsistent with every thing he understood constantly to 'belong to the functions of that House. He (Mr. Banker) did not deny that Edwards was implicated in guilt, but the others who acted with him were nut less so: butt, however atrocious the plot, he thought it was shaken at the present moment, and that no danger could now be feared from it. What, then, was the object of the hon. Alderman by this motion? as it that Edwards should be brought to justice as a traitor to his country, or to those associates to whom it would seem he was more bound? This could not be his object, for, by his own admission, lie would not have him, or any man, punished with death for that or any other crime, except murder : but the lion. Alderman wished that this man should be sent out of the country; but this object would be attained without his motion,and that according to his own state ment. What wools! the lion. Alderman say if a gang of robbers had laid a plot to plunder his house and attack his family, and information of the intended attack were communicated by one of the party? Would lie say to him, ' Go, you are as bad as the rest ; you deserve no credit, and ought to be punished." Would the lion. Al derman say this, auil, after having dismissed his informant, go supinely and stupidly to sleep? Ile (Mr. Bankes) was certain that no man would act so incautiously; and were the House to be told that less care was to be taken for the public than for an individual?—There was a great man, a magistrate of ancient times, and of another coun try—lie certainly did not mean to compare Ishii to the worthy Alderman—whose vigilance and integrity had saved his country Irons a most foul conspiracy. He hail a different opinion from that entertained by the loon. Al derman on this' subject of getting information from some of the guilty pat lies. Whatever other opinions might be entertained of that great man (Cicero), there would be, he believed, hut one on his conduct on that occasion. He had nut hesitated to seek and receive information, from the comic:an ot Cataline's designs ; and the am bassadors of the Allobroges he encouraged to continue to attend the meetings of the cont.piratorcin oi der that their designs might be more folly discoctreil.—Legatis prtycipii ut thulium conjuralionis vehtntenter simulent caltrot witting: bens polliceantur, &Wrote operant, at cos vows Non urns mani festos Itabeant. Such was the conduct 01 that gr eat mall and excellent magistrate ; and it was a conduct fur whico be bad 'levet been accused by the lovers of their eitnetly. (llr, ar, hear.) Its conclusion, the hon. gent. again ex pressed, that lie sea' no ground whatever for acceding to the present motion. Mr. HOIIHOt SF. rose.—The hon. Member said, that in offeting a few obsel voitions on this subject he had 111 chains the usual kindness of the House to a clung Mcill het —(lleat );—atool puthaps he requited on this occasion moors' than that usual kiedness, for lie could too coheres front himself, nor could the hon. Members coticeal font themselves, the peculiarity of the situation to oh.. It roe stood in the Hosea . . On this ground, therefoi e, hr had to solicit flu it indulgence; and hr also need , d it tei moot het s collect, for it 'might be COlibillv it'd a degree of boldness in Mtn to rise tot the pin pose ot combating the opinions id a gentleman ot the long experi en ce and high Molotov , with olic !tense, ati%l the public tit large, sit the lion. Ment hes who lied poi sat dosses. It Might stri.eill bold ill IMO t'e euitili.mit I kill 0111111011 coutqug atom such audio' 41. tital the t o w min precedent lu he, untold for what he tel reed t sit dot (hearty it IM 11:•111 eas was ploposeti by the km , . Atilt mar.. Its' (Mr ii ) howeve I, held art optitiott on quest...l. tidies wg silt Is lion. that Mlitcoeit by the lion. Ali WO. I ; tiiiir•K a• Opt); aist of errs) clifftirute 61 I\‘ 11 , I ighl and V114.11V,.--11111eS/ hits %It% I the quit 5% noily; nr s rM 55as sii* ba Ilibject a• n 1.111 1 ,14 l'alliameni ought oleo musty to eursoder 'floc boo. At sodoei load said that the et unmet j urisilictioito ot the com a !, elight out to be nierldri tr wit 1. N 1 as it bc calist. 1'111141111(1a had r dune so helutt f Did the bon. Member mean to assert that thete weec out ittcce- -.2._ THE NATIONAL REGISTER. dents for the interference of the House in matters of criminal jurisdiction? On looking at the whole of the subject a ith which the present vacation Was connected and recollecting the conduct of that House on other oc. casions, he saw no reason why inquiry should be refused. The Hon. Gentleman hod allnded to the practice of an cient times, and mentioned Cicero as having sought la fortnativn of Catoline's plans from Fut vitt and the legates of the Allobroges ; but it slid not appear that Cicero had employed either Fulvia or the Allobroges to make that plot. There was, he conceived, no analogy between the two cases. He believed also, that it the opinions of 80811 e of the wisest and best of the aticietits wear sought, they wrothd be funtid to be more in favour of the princi ple that spies should be punished, than that they should be encouraged. Sue tuitions was so adverse to the 'sateen of spies, as to reckon them inter wimp.= gemporims 't stns held them in such a light that he ordered them to be whipped from the camp.—(Hear ! hear.) The Right Hu:mutable Member would excuse him for going into those cases, but he himself had led the way by his le. ference to ancient history)—Constantine was still Inure se vere, for he ordered spies to be put to death. But this hatred so spies, and this discountenance of that s) stem, was not confined to good Emperors solely. Among the bad Emperors also were fuuud some a hojustl) appreciated such chatacters. Cmligula said he had no ears for spies; and it was observed by Dottiitian, that Prim:cps gui delatooss nun castigat, irritta. Su far fur the opinion of the ancients.— He would now come to modem times. Having heard so much in favour of the system of spies, he had looked iuto some modern writers, to ascertain whether they were either defended or approved; and he hid nit found any advocate for them, except that could be said to be a justification of them where klachiavel said, tha " governments employed brutes as well as men." Monterauieu said, that " even in a monarchy spies ore n o t to be employed;" and he gave the reason—" fur the infamy of the Jerson dcnoteth the infamy of the thing," II tying said thus much, he would observe, that the Hon. Member who had isserted that the system of spies was necessary to the suppo t of a good government, should have substituted the word "bad" for the word "good" and then Ins assertion would be tearer the fact, for he ( Mr. Hobhoose conceived, that no systen of government ciadd he considered a good one which rervred spies to support it.— Now considering this, he though it was u reason why the House should consent to the mown, to show to the coun try they had the interest of the irople at heart, and that they would not consent to the stipot t of a system which no good goverumout could require. Hear, hear.) Mr. BUTTERWORTH had herd so much of the horrid details of the plot from this man, tht he was absolutely shocked at the motion of the worthy Alden:tn. (Cheers froth the Mi. nistetial benches.) Ile could not coceive what motive induced the worthy Alderman to bring this anion forward, except it was that which had induced him to queion the unfottunate This dewood in his last moment-J. Omit and continued cheers from the Ministerial benches.) That oduct of the worthy Alder man he looked upon as most unjusiable, and betrayed a want of feeling which he hardly thought I man could evince. The motion, he conceived, was calculateto produce a very bad effect in the country, and therelOre he shod oppose it. Mr. HUME expressed himself suriaed that the Hon. Mem ber who had last spoken could intim such improper motives to the Hon Aldention who had inuuced this question. The conduct of that Worthy Aldemian is as uptight and proper as that of the Hon. Member himself, 'any other Member in that House. The Hon. Alderman had tell in situations where that conduct was tried—in a situation tech he (Mr. Butterworth) had not been in. and lie was alwaystind humanely attentive to all its duties. Was it to be called crime in hint to endeavour to come at truth? (Hear, hear.) 'lie Hon. Alderman had shown that Edwards, accompanied his brother, had brought an individual to a particular spot, birder that at a convenient time they might pounce upon hun.nd receive the money to which his conviction would entitle th. Was a motion thr in quiry into such a circumstances fit acct for the ridicule of the Hon. Gentlemen ? He would say t the object was laudable, and lie would ask whether Edwards:: not now about to with. draw, in order to enjoy the money tch he had gained by his wicked practices ? And, no doubt. re plots of the sane kind were forthcoming, for in his conscie lie believed that Minis • ters had been acquainted with the coiracy of Thistlewood anti his associates for a considerable time ore it was suppressed by their arrest. All that was wished by: present motion was, not to criminate, but to inquire (as had b frequently done by Par liament on other occasions) whetberere were any grounds for instituting criminal proceedings. Mr. 1V YNN said, he knew nag on the subject except from hearsay : but, from what wuaerally stated, he looked on this Edwards as a person who I been employed to give intelligence to the Government. audio, in return, had got a promise of security, and this pledge House would not surely wish to bit broken. Mr. DENMAN mild sae nothim new in the present !no tion. Alter die occurrence of the drbanccs in the North, it had been proposed that Coninsitteesuld be appointed to in quire into the transactions; and mho those mottoes had been refused, they had never been treaas not consonant to the feelings, or not consistent with thgulations, of the House. Yet now, when it was stated that thrashed to inquire into the character of Edwards, the Hon. Abet fur Corte-castle (tlr. Bankes) came forward. and overwind with ridicule the lion. Alderman who made the motion, athe gallant General who seconded it. As to spies, he wouldnit that, in some cases, the use of them was, no doubt, jumble. (Hear.) But the question here was, who had tipple Edwards, and who hud given him the money which he rece long betine the blot was matured? Was the object in thise the discsrery, or the manufacture of crime ? For his own, he had strong doubts respecting the conduct of Goventna This was not the lust time that they had employed such went as Edwards. On the former trial of Thistlewood, alomh Watson and others. it appeared mat Castles, who war accomplice at lirst, had afterwards become a spy, and hail Inmost active in inanulac. wring the crimes whieit he diselosond he doubted not that the kwrsons who were executed at y had been led to the !ociitlidtl by Oliver, who was empl by the Government— (l I car, heat.) On the grounds with had now stated, with a strong feeling against the practice oploying spivs, and with some professional experience, wink:winced h u m that of late years this system had beet, canted 'Misters to a very impro per length, he should vote for thcsit motion. if the worthy Alderman should press a division. The All () RN EY - GES ERA Icoursc opposed the alto. neon. Sir F. 11l ETT supported i ssAt length, and hoped that the public mind would be ! at „„,.b an mitiiry as that hurl cued. it Ills ;Majesty :\`.li dish stand cicar of all ci" , turSauls, in God's name let connexion with thut odium , them skew to the woi let that they 'ml clear. in the mad , ti ground e inquiry. elute Phu by stating dint his intention had been not to have irate i„ the per: eat discus siom; but hr Nab pother satisfied \e s;an in which this question had been lett by the spe"'two they aitt, 1 tli , reace baudtrom oedema lade cut the II oust by that of the lid Hon. Gentleman Bart. who had just now spoken. orl'esol tltc hioLtun tu a trey lung .ism a Leh he unsuc- 136 cessfully endeavoured to raise a laugh upon the subject. lie echoed several eb•erv.itions which had betbre been repeatedly made by other .Nlembars from his side of the House, and sat down amid the cheers of the Mini.terid benches. Sir F. BURDETT did not mean to trouble the House by any observation upon what the Hight Hon. Gentleman perhaps called arkzument. What he (sir F. Burdett) objected to was, me keeping su pay a set of spies, who went up and down the coun try putting in practice all their insidious and nibchievous art , . Ile merely wished to set himMelf right with the House upon this point, but was not going to trespass on their time by making any further comment upon the alhurd, senseless, stupid, and ridi culous observation* of the lion. Gentleman. (Hear.) The lion. Bart. was loudly called to order.) Mr. BROUGHAM recommended the lion. Alderman to withdraw his motion; but only under the idea that the Courts of Law were open to him Mr redress. If in those Courts he should meet with any impediment to th prosecution of this man, either by finding a noli proarqui ens real by the Government, or from any other cause, it would then be time for bins to come into that House. Mr. Alderman WOOD was ready to withdraw his motion, upon the Attorney• General's giving a pledge that he would enter I) process on the part of the Crown that should militate against the proceedings winch he (Mr. Alderman Wood) would then institute at law. (near.) Meanwhile, he declared, that if he did not prove Edwards to have been the sole instigator of the late plot, he was not then in existence. The gallery was then ordered to ihe cleared for a division ; but the motion was negative:, without a division. Adjourned at lialfpast twelve. WEDNESDAY, MAY 10. There being only thiity-sixMttothers present et four o'clock, the Speaker &tidied the House to stand ad• journed till to morrow (this day ) inuasate, MAY 11. Petitions were presented from laild-on tiers in Wiltshire, Cornwall, Dinsetshire, Warwickshire, and Kent, com plaining of Anti( (literal Distress. On cuss's FUN n.—N 6W YO.T OFrICE.-Mr. H. SUM NER, on the Report presented Sii W. Curti: of the Committee respecting the Post-office Petition. moved that the business be referred to a Select Committee to examine the estimate., &c. Mr. WILDMAN presented a Petition from Essex, on the subject of dividing the Sessions between Chelmsford and Colthester.—Rekrred to a Committee. Mr. 31A filitiLLY rose to move for an Account of Ex chequer Bilis, how expended, &c. Motion agreed to, nod various other papers were ordered respecting the Exchequer Itillsofec. The rem " g Orders of the Day having been dieposed of, the House a , journetl. -- FRIDAY, MAY if. . - - AGItICIATCHAI. DIsTRFU.—Lord TEMPLE presented three Petitions from persons in Bitekinglianisithe, com plaining of agricultural distress. lie tirehired, that the Priiiioners only required that inquiry lb liouilil be insti- Wird. Mr. CALCRAF r expressed hine , cll glad to see these Petitions. lie was for 'Mowing shish doors as wide open as possible to petitioners; anti he thought they a ere Immod to ingnire into the complaints of the sexes al classes of his Majesty's subjects, particularly of the agricultural class. It scented to be the desire to put an extinguisher on this subject ; he was glad that those who desired so much had not the power of accomplishing their Lord NUGENT said. that the enettili p as in a strange and a 1111 l melons situation. lie was desirous that inquiry should be instituted. The farmers were great dishes., . . . . he believed that for the last tiro or tlue+• years the far mers ;tad been chiefly living on their c..pitel. The tress mainly resulted from the debt and a tictitious paper currency. The Petitions were then brought up, read, and severally ordered to be [minted. REFORM —Sir M. W. RIDLEY presented a Petition from Newcastle upon Type, praying for Palliamo wary' Reform, and signed by 3,600 inhabitants of that plaer, to the respectability of %lions he could bear his personal testimony. Petition reed, and ordered to be printed. CIVIL LIST PENSIONS —Lord SEFTON presented a Petition from Merchants and others of Liverpool, on the subject of the Civil List Bill, praying that the part re garding Pensions should be so limited that an) Member of that House accepting any Pension should be deemed incapable of holding a scat. —Petition read. Mr. G. BENNE:IT gave notice, that it was his intuition to move to introduce a clause into the Bill embody Mg such regulation, to render persons holdiug Pt unions inca pable of ['possessing seats in that House. (Hear.) Lord MILTON presented a Petition from Wakefield, complaining of the injuries sustained in the Woollen nude by the New Tax, &r. Otilervil to lie on ihe table. CONDUCT OF THE MILITA It Y.--M r. jrOBHOLISE pre sented a Petition Burn inhabitants of Oldham, complain ing of excesses isiflicted by the military. He had Optioned into the allegation•, and he loom' them to be correct. They stated, that this was the thipil time that they had been subjected to what they called " outrages lions the military." Mr. H. CLIVE said, lie thought the !louse would nut receive the Petition. Sir F. Buiti)Err consitleted this to be a most extra ordinary mode of pro.cceding. It St coma Use)' w, re about to reµ•ct a petition, V 1 ilk the contents of o hit 111 as )et they W1:11 . Wholly ittoietitiiiiletl. was of great i.o portance at the present moment, esperinily alien it was recollected that mimed soldiers were changed a tilt ass.tu.t ina unarmed iftid defenceless subjects. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought that the Petitimi ought to be received. (Loud Clarets.) Lord AIILTON spoke in favour of the l'etiituti using received. l'etition, which wu signed by upwards of tiuJJ residents of Oldham, was tend ; and it ecitioasth d I 1a,.1 they had brim subjected to a .vita , of assaults at.d out rages inflicted by the Haiti! ley. *Envy laiayeal fax rn.luu y, anal that a 'eduction of the standam; ticglit take inatte. Me. 111)1111011SE moiled that the 1'c1.111 , 11 lie pinta - al. Ile said that Ise had nastimical iniquity tutu 1111111 Of 1111` allet.tations, anal he hail 11'4AI/1110 believe th,t they did 001 a lessor t.t 6160100 d. lie had icason 10 he. Vit vc that the tact* w rte !Inds r, rather than o.rr stated. It ..as said that eighteim persons had ,eliered; Its helot.% t d it n mil.; be tetanal Mat the minibee seas 'lin ty•file. l'e til *tali auricled w he IllU(.l).‘1.1:, presented a I'. titian] flout Ilirmina:. liana, most enamel anisly signed, complaiiiinine ul lii. lIIVASCS Of (male, the llon. Alrtubcr olascry . the Petition well tan 'heti the 1111'11:1011.d the 11..u5... Air. 131(4.:1:61i INI bore h •limuos to the (Icr utick a. jet(