The National Register. — London, England, 1820-07-17 00:00:00

The LORD CHANCELLOR said, the Noble Lord (Holland) had cited but one case of analogy, and that was the case of High Treason, but the Noble Lord had been at last obliged to give up even that. In the whole course of his (the l.ortl Chancellor) official Life there had occurred no case but of High Treason in which a list of the witnesses had been furnished to the accused party. It never entered the mind of his Majesty's Ministers to propane any proceedings of a private nature, neither had it ever been suggested that any privilege should be withheld for a mo ment from the party accused. Their Lordships were anxious that her Majesty should have all facilities for procuring the means of her defence. The case was one which was to be con sidered upon general principles, and if their Lordships dissented from the plan now proposed, it would be impossible for them to proceed as their ancestors had done. The Resolutions were then agreed to. After which. Lord LIVERPOOL moved other Resolutions to the following effect : That her Majesty's Counsel should be informed of the postponement. •That Counsel should be heard upon the second reading of the Bill in support of it. " That the Attorney-General should be informed of this arrangement. " That the House should be called over on the 17th August, at ten o'clock in the morning. " That no Lord should leave the House during the proceedings without leave; and " That the Lord Chancellor should issue notice to tic Lords to attend on the day of postponement." The Resolutions were agreed to, and the House adjourned. TUESDAY, JULY BIRMINGHAM PE Ti rtori.—The Marquisofi. A NSDOWNE presented a Petition from the Boroughreeve, Merchants, Manu facturers, and inhabitants of ilirminghatn, prayiril for relief against the operation of the China and East India trade. After some discussion between the Noble Marquis, the Earl of Liver pool. Lord Ellenborough, Earl Bathurst, and Lord Lauderdale, on the tiolicy of oacning the Baltic Timber Trade, and relaxing the duties, the Petition was laid on the table. TILE QUEESL—Lord AUCKLAND said, he held in hand a Petition from the Queen, and he should move it be read and laid on the table, with a view of postponing the consideration of it till Friday, when a Noble Lord (Erskine) was to bring forward the same subject for discussion. The Petition was then read by the Clerk. The Petition of her Majesty the Queen to the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, stated, that having received information that the second reading, of the Bill of l'ains and Penalties. degrading to her Majesty, had been fixed for the 17th of August, and being advised that a list of the witnesses was necessary for her defence, her Majesty was desirous that it be delivered fortnwith to her Attorney-General The Earl of LAUDERDALE, after the Petition hail been read, suggested that the House should appoint a Committee to search for precedents. in order to see what had been done on former proceedings of a similar nature. The Noble Earl thought that mode of proceeding would be satisfactory to the politic. The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, if the Noble Lord made a motion for the appointment of a Committee. it might interfere with the motion to furnish the Queen with a list of witnesses, which stood for Friday. He was not aware of any strong prece dents to be found. Lord HOLLAND felt some objection to the appointment of a Committee to examine precedents. If such a motion was ma Ic and agreed to, he expres ed a hope that the enquiry would be general, and that the Committee would not cull precedents suited to a confined view of the subject. The Earl of LIVERPOOL had no objection to search for pre • eedents, such as the Noble Lord referred to, but he did not think a Committee could distinctly state to the direct object and appli cation of those precedents. The Petition was then ordered to be taken into consideration on Friday. The Earl of LAUDERDALE immediately after moved, that a Committee be appointed to search for prec e dents of furnish ing lists of witnesses in bills of attainder and all cases analogous. The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, the best practicable course of proceeding was to confine the enquiry to proceedings as similar as possible to that before the House. Lord HOLLAND could not allow that the House was to be bound by rules and precedents. The principles of justice were more essential to the proceetlin,g than precedents. Earl BATIIuRSI expressed an opinion that it would be pro per to confine the enquiry to Bills of Attainder. Bills of Pains and Penalties, and Impeachments. The Noble Earl consequently moved to amend the motion by the insertion of the words pains and penalties, and impeachments. Tlic motion amended stood thus—" That a Committee be appointed to search for precedents of furnishing Lists of IVit noises in Bills of Attainder, Bills of Pains and Penalties, and Impeachments." Lord HOLLAND again objected to the amended motion, and contended, that the House ought to be governed only by the best administration of justice. Lord AUCKLAND agreed with his Noble Friend, Lord Hol land, and said he should vole against the motion of the Noale Earl. At the same time he was only influenced by a wish to do substantial justice. lie did not think her Majesty the Queen could come before the House without a list of the witnesses; without it she would not have the whole of the case balite her. The House then divided on the amendment. The numbers were— For the Amendment IR Ayain it The motion, as amended, was accordingly carried, and the Committee appointed. The House adjourned. WEDNSDAY, JULY IR. lord KENYON presented a Petition, signed by a numerous body of Electors and Merchants of Dublin, against a Clause in a Bill before the House, for the regulation of Masters in Chan cery in Ireland. The said clause requires such Masters in Chan cery to reside in Ireland, in order that they may be the better able to discharge the duty, and the Petitioners oppose the clause on the ground that it will occasion a new election. Pelew's Divorce Bill passed through a Committee. The Smuggling Prevention Bill, and the Slaves Removal Bill, were also committed, and reported without amendments. Petition read and or d ered to lie on the table. Adjourned. THURSDAY. ?PLY 15. THE IRISH COURT OE CHANCERY BILL—Tile Earl of CARNAIIVON asked whether it was the intention of the Noble Lords connected with Government to move the second reading of a Bill on the table to regulate the Court of Chancery in Ireland. Lord REDESDALE said, the Bill would he advantageous to the Court of Chancery in Ireland. l46nie parts of it were, how ever, objectionable. The Bill would require considerable amend ment. The second reading was then fixed for to-morrow. MARRIAGE ACT AMENDMENT ELLEN. BOROUGH rose, pursuant to notice. to move the second reading oh this Bill. The Noble Lord stated tour uses in which Mat riages had been set abide under the existing Act, by the minority of the husbands. Some of them had been married between 50 and 4o years, and their marriages were set aside, Ind R Immo* that they wanted two or three montos of being of age at the time the ceremony was pertOmied. He meant to insert a clause, that no Parties should be able to dissolve their marriages themselves ; but parents and guardians might, within a given time, annul mu nage.. if irregular, and without their consent. The LORD CHANCELLOR strorully oppo.ti: 07 , Oil. and declared he exalt: nut vote fat owing Into Comm:tn.,: upirn it. THE NATIONAL REGISTER Had the Bill been framed to relieve persons who originally meant to act honestly, but bad mistaken the marriage ceremony, he should not have opposed it, but the Bill before the House would do incalculable mischief. No man who had a heart could avoid feeling for those cases which had been stated; hut they were to see what this Bill did. It had a retrospective effect, and would effect rights acquired since 175 t. It would go to establish marriages in cases where licenses had been obtained by fraud, and for which persons had stood in the pillory. As to marriage by beans, he was disposed to say, that all marriages celebrated by banns, however irregular, ought to be gaol marriages. The Act of the 23d of Geo. 3d, made such marriages good - , but the Bill before the House would make them bad, by giving guardians the power within a few years to set them aside. The Earl of WESTMORLANI) said, it was due to the Noble Lord who advocated the Bill, to let it go to a second reading. In a Committee they might make many ultermions, and by sibility afford a remedy for the melancholy state of society with reference to marriage , . The Earl of LIMERICK supported the Bill, and the House then dividel on the second reading— Contents 32 Nut Content Al aim* —6 The Lotd Chancellor was consequently left in the Minority, and the Bill was committed for Monday.—Adjourned. FRIDAY, JULY Is. Lord HOLLAND presented a Petition from the Pro testant Dissenters,against the operation of the Test Aet, and praying to be relieved from dimbilities imposed by the same. The Petition was laid on the Table, THE QUEEN. PriEektigses.—The Earl of SHA I."I•ESBURY previa etli the Report of the Committee appointed to examiae Precedents fir furnishing Lists of Witnesses to persons accused in Bids of Attainder, Pains and Penalties, and Impeachment. 'llse Report contained but two cases. The first was that of Sir JOllll Bennett, in which, upon Petition, copies of the charges against him, and a list of witnesses, were graiitell'—The second was the case of Lord Stratford, in which a similar request was eomplied with. The Report was read and laid on the table. Lord ER7+tilNE rose, on the Order ot the Day, to move the Queen lie furnished with a list ot the witnesses, to be heard in support of the Bill of Pains and Penalties. Flit Noble Lord commenced a most eloquent speeds, by observing, that the question was one of the greatest im portance. unless their Lordships coosented to deliver to her Majesty a list of the witnesses against her, the pro ceedings would be delayed. They would he compelled to adjourn de die in diens, to affor d the lltrceti a fair op portunity of meeting the testimony against her. Where was the Queen to collect the nature and beach g of the evidence ? The Bill was in the nature of a ermdual in dictment, yet it contained no charge that could be clearly understood. There was no charge °lmbiber,- on a given day, or at a given place, bat it was said to be committed during time course of six years she was absent from this emintry. flow could her Majesty prepare for her de• fence upon such charges without more information ? It was impossible to do joistiee in this case without the House enabled the accused to prepare for her defence. What lie recommended was to enable the accused to answer this Bill. If he did not make out the ease that her Ma jesty was entitled to all the documents required, he would withdraw his motion. Lord Erskine contended that, if indicted for high treason, the Illustrious Person svmild be enticed to a copy of the indictment. The t, teen was entitled to a list of witnesses, not only that she might contradict them, but that they lingua be made to contr.t. diet themselves. He did not know why the list of wit nesses should be withheld in all cases except high treason. Ile knew that the practice had been the All bject of much grumbliog. The Ministers were the authors of the Bill, and every thing like the appearance of injustice would create abhorrence. The effect of withholding a list of witnesses would be to compel the Qaeen to call for delay. The Noble Lords might say this was out a proceeding which inflicted the penalty of death, but what was the pain of death after they degraded the illustrious person front all the hotionrs of her Royal House ; from all the honours she 11411 acquired in this country, life was of 110 value after such degradation. They ,ought then to be careful how in such a case they violated the principles of justice. The Noble Lord concluded by moving, that a list of witnesses to be examined in support of the Pains and Penalties Bill be sent to her Majesty's legal advisers, to enable the Queen to defend The LORD CHANCELLOIt opposed the motion. lie was hound by a sense of duty to object to it. 1' he Minn principles of justice tbe applied to high and low. In the administration of justice all were equal. Ile felt it necessary to state, that no man could (twilit that a list of witnesses delivered to a person before accusation, gave all unfair advantage to persons appointed to cross examine witnesses. The wisdom of ages had not adopted the pro ceeding recommended. Viva rocs examination was only to he relied ou ; 11111:1 if so, what would heroine of jus tire it' lists of witnesses were to be given. The ends of justice requited they should not du thoit which was con tuary to law and reason. How could they make nil 1 . %. cep ion in favour of the Illustrious individual, wham would impugn all the established rules of es 'deuce ?• Udder all the cirettinstatives the question was, whether they could sacrifice the general principle of Parliament ary Administration, by saying they could not be governed by the ordinary principles of justice. The Noble and Learned Lord gave Ilk 11PgaliVe to the motion. The Marquis of LANSDOWN, feeling the importance of the debate, declared, in justice to her Nlajesty and the accusing party, there could be no just oppo•ittou to the motion made by his Noble Friend. Upoit the prece dents stated that day to the House, they were under the necessity of acceding to the motion. lie tsuuld defy the House to prove a precedent for the manlier in which an lifastrions person I.IIOIIIA be treated hi this ease. They had departed from precedent, yet they were called uti by those who hail recommended the des iation, to be guided by the land monks they had disregarded.— His Noble and Learned Friend had called upon theta to consider what wont,' most contli hole to lite ends of jlts. fide. I Hel I I t. 1100011 g to prevent the Honer Irons acceding to the course recunimesided that day. Os; the coot ory, he was Coll 1, illet (I I hat a terns:ll of the entails went , ' lead as in ercuption of the rolut . ,e of jitsttee. 'rue Earl of LiVELPOOL op p.,seti lie mei Lord SUPPOIIe , I LI, and after 'ultra iteriate it was negat vett.— djim net'. HOUSE OF COMMON :•. ,VINt I I%, 10. 4.% r I' T. • Sir 1:. 111,t19). lie, ts !e .te.o4 tiled !It ‘% ::..::net, renot trti gt m >1.3 1 u other 227 persons had ;iteiend;redth;ino.lves,but t•u they were persons eha hal no will of Coo own, he should moire that the Order for their attendance be discharged. Respecting Sir W. Mainter4, lie should make no &notion. The order with respect to the other two witnesses was discharged. • Mr. C. VI , YN NI moved, that Sir W. Manners, having ab. seonded to avoid being examined before t lie Or 'wham Elec tion Committee, be sent to Newgine for such offence. Sir J. GRAHAM observed, that Sir W. .Manners had left town before any order was i,sued ; and he therefore moved, as an amendment, that the Order be discharged. Or. Pll ILLIMOR E remarked, that Jervoise had been sent to NeAgate nailer preceiely ansular rirrunwances, sod yet nothing was to lie dirle again 4 Slr W. 111iiimen..-- (Hear.) After several remarks from Mr. Tensrin, &r. The SPEAKER observed, th it if their orders were to be cisobey ed, what would become of their authority. A moaufment negatived. Mr. W ROT rEsLEY said, there was no evidence of Sir W. Manners having ab,conded. Sir J. M'INTOSH reminded the House, th it it had been resolved, aftcr evidence, that Sir W. Manners had itboainded. Original Motion carried. • Mr. BLS N moved for a return of the numher if soldiers m %sere Slow receiving pensions tin account of Mr. ItICI RDO tn,ved fur returns of the quantities of 1V illel imported, distingutsnin; those from Ftance.— , Ordered. - . . Mr. CANNING moved, that the East India Volunteer Bill Ripon he received. Report brouAlit up and agreed to, and the Bill ordered to he re.ol a third time to- 1111 l mitt. Mr O.\ LI" moved, lii Mr. D'Esterre, the Iteeorder of Limerick, w tio had wen co:omitted to Ne.vgate tor preva rication on oath, he brouAlit to the Bar, in order a his being discharged. Sir J. WIN Tail) thouzlit, after such prevarication on oath, Mr. IJ'Et.terrc unGht slot to lie allowed to hod Its judieial lace of It:corder, or to continue his (Hear I) Mr. k%VSON, who had been on the election committee eXpre,sed a similar 1111 • Mr. DAJ,y Ritid, the °dicer was annually elected, and that the Election mut li,.ve the approbation of tlst Lard Lieutenant. Sit J. MISTOSII said, they ou;ht to have some assu rance that the dismission s °nisi take place. Mr. C. GRANT sled no doubt toot the wish of the flume would be attended to. If previous oatice could not he taken, the re-election would be in September neat t and then doubt le•s the wi h n Inch had beets expres,ed would 114VC its due eller t • Motion agreed to, and Heury D'Esterre was placed at the B ,r. - The SPEAKER, in reprimanding the prisoner, observed, hat he had oat to address an iinlividual half ignoram, half (located-o , w who had an int iserfect notion of :Lll 0:011 ; he had not to address one who moved no the hoover ranks of life; but he was an individual who move) in a superior station, and was himself clothed with a judicial character. To an individual u circurmtanced, he would not pursue the cosh . nary course of reprimand ; but would leave him to those reit 'etions which doubtless arose in his own mind, and world conclude with stating, that be was 'ordered to be dis. charged out of custody on payment of his fees. The Speak A speech was ordered to be printed. ALIEN' BILL—Lord CAS I'LL:REM:iII moved, thst the hunts.• resolve itself into a C tttttt noire on the Aliens' Bill. Sir J. Al'IN 1 . 0111 moved, Ih it it be an instruction to the Committee to introduce three clauses :—First, to provide that Aliens, before beim:, compelled to I-ave the country, should be furnished with an uccouut of the charges against them, and have time to rebut it by witnesses, before the Privy Council. —Secondly, to exempt all Aliens who had been its this country before January I Kl 4, from the opsout• of this A. t; and thirdly, to exempt limn the provisions of this Bill, witnesses who might he trouglit to this coantry, whether for sir ;against the Quern. Lord CASTLEREAGH opposed all . the clauses. It would be better, he urged, to st ithlvdd the Bill altogether, than to hamper it with such exemptions. The two first clauses had before been proposed, and bud before been ne. gatived ; and as to the third proposition, it was a reflection 011 the Minister., in which he thou4lit the !louse would not join. They could not be lisrpetted of contempl a ti ng any proccediog so violent as to reject wilsiesses introduced in behalf to the Osteett.. After an riiteinled daictisslon, in which Mr. I)einan, &c. took pait, the several clauses were negatived without a The Orders of the Day were disposed of, and the Douse adjourned. TUESDAY, JULY 11. GRANTHAM ELECTION. Colonel ' O1)GIIOUSIi pre. sewed a Report from this Committee, i 4 hick d J., met !highs, 1:1. to have foKeited his seat, he having been guilty of tieatieg. A net% it sit was ord , •ted for Grantham- in the room of the %Mlle Jant-s thighs, lisq. Col. 019:11011SV. th , ti present , cl a Special It..port, declariog ilia: a practice had long ploy:411ml at Grantham, Of giving. to out-votersi snots of money, under colour of in. demoity for loss of time and expenses, which w a s highly divot, subversive of the frurdolit of election, and ti riding to produce the most dun:crime corruption. 'rite Itcpoit to to dechred that James !limits Was incapacitated to serve in the present Parliainetit.—Report ordered to lie uu the table. BREAM or PtuciLEGE.—Nir. MARTIN (of (ialway) complained of having 11:;:gin been misrepresented in a NI go g.- ing Paper, " Herald." and Ib.al r too, After he had •pulveti to the individual %%lc , hvd previnmly nii,repi est Inca hi in. lie irmiclugled with ma% in that Mr. ligge.mg and Mr. Gla,vingtoig, tne printer a publislict, be called in the Bar thi Friday nest.— (lettered. Mr. BENNET!' mg seined a Petivign from a poison named Join' Drake. I:ie master or e oavict Ve1,1.1, complain. lulu of having been sent home by the Gntrrr or, eimet CIIIIVitIs 111 he tired upon to suppress udisturlianee. 11.urd CAsTLEILLA ►tated, that he shht:l:l not uppolo the rece i pt of tliis I'. lel ion, tittme4ll it wa• falloursog, !mil e t. t. tire that !Lit: gt.sa.t hit .t 1 late, 111.1 th l'elottnimig the !loam:. lunching Illjti(•.. th.it Here lit 'inject: 01 requit) iu the Court‘. l'etintm bs up, read, and mAtird la iie on the table. _ _ • Ur. P1111.1.1A10/tE presented .1 l'etitinn fr-ns R. Are strung Jrt 'u w, pri•tt..rr itt NOM.: .R. rkeri*.n.ati.g tai For tonivihJton sr? iLt;r