The Statesman. — London, England, 1821-05-03 00:00:00

~.-~.-+-+f. '7,Prr ar-- - T Colonel DAVIVA..._ rose to move an aildre.s to the Kim:, praying his Majesty to order his Half-pay Offs-I kers to be employed when vacancies should omit. His motion would be a verbatim copy of that agreld to by the House in 1710. It was then adopte 1 with out opposition, and the only objection made to it by those on the Ministerial side of the House, was that it was nnne .essary, as the King meant to employ every °dicer on half-pay who was able to serve. The rase of the Half-pay Officers was particularly hard. Many of them had purchased their commissions and paid more than the regular price, and now they were placed • on half-pay, and were likely to remain in their present situation, unless they possessed very great interest to them employment. What lie would suggest was, that half of the commissions that might fall vacant in eerie regiment should he filled up with the names of Officers who were at present on the half-pay list. He was ready to withdraw his motion, if the Noble Lord would state that it was the intention of the Commander in Chief to recommend it to his Majesty to employ Officers now on halt pay who were eligible to serve. Ile moved That an humble Address should he pre sented to the King, praying his Majesty for the pre sent and future case of his snhjects, to employ in his army such Officers now on half-pay who were quali fied to serve his Majesty." Lord PALMERSTON opposed the Resolution, on the ground that it was uncalled for, and would there fore he a censure upon the office of Commander-in . tilief, whose conduct, at the head of the army, had itrodikerl the most beneficial effects, and was entitled '• to the hizhest praise. The Noble Lord entered into a calculation, slicwing that a great number of the • carers on half-pay had retired voluntarily, and that of the rem tinder, as many were occasionally placed np at full pay as could be expected, consistently with the regulation.; now acted upon in the army. Sir It. WILSON would he the last man in that Dun.e to cast any implied censure upon the conduct of the Commander-in.t:hief. The exertions of that wa-1.1111 PersonaL , e in his Department deserved the wit west praise, buth on the part of the army antisthe country. lie could nut, hnweyer, help observing, that moony lieneral Officers, to whom the country owed ever; thing, were now living upon retiree( allowances of 7s. a day. This was a state of things which (right to he remedie.l, an , l therefore lie felt it neces sary to support the Resolution. Captain WORADY supported the Resolution. Ile eonerived that there were litany public situations, such fiarrar!‘ Masters, &c. &c. which might he filled up from the half-pay. Mr. lIITMS obirrved, that within the last five years there had beee I Itls cornets and ensigns appointed, of irhich only 54 had been taken from the half-pay. Mr. C. It HUTCHINSON supported the Reso- 110.1 , m. After a few words from Lord PALMERSTON in explanation Col. DAVIES replied.—The House then divided — F the llotion 11, Against it -15, MajJrity gaiiist it 31. On rr-entering the Gallery, we found Mr. 1117 ME on hi. hnt the noise occasioned by the re-entrance 'of stranger., prevented us from catching his obs:rva. On the (haler of the Day being real for going into a Committee on the Superannuation .thowaticcs, 111!MF„ after a few observations, proceeded to rel t to the House an extract from the Sixth Report of ti.e C o mmittee, in which they (the Commit tee) reeournen.led that an inquiry should be instituted in the Superannuation Allowances in order to find out those which ought to be continued, and those which ought to be abolished. He proceeded to point out sera.-al instances of persons receiving Superannuation Allowances to the amount of 2001., 300/., 40111., and SON. a-year, and who, at the same time, held situations of several hundredf, nay, in some instances, thousands a-year. He concluded by moving the following Re- k solution : Res lved. " That as there are individuals in the 1. Ist of Superannuation• and Retired Allowances, who ie..;!ive large sums for services of a few years, and who are at this time in perfect health, and performing duty in lucrative employments, it is expedient that this House before granting any of the Superannuated Allowances for this year, should appoint a Committee of this House, conformable to the recommendation of the fernier Committee—(tith Report from Committee on Finance, 1417, p. 195), in the following terms : Where the sum has been granted as a Siipesatinuation Allowance to a person who nevertheless had health and strength afterwards to bold other active and lu crative situations, your Committee feel that the public have an ~doubted right to revise the whole of such grants, and to curtail and modify them in a way which may answer to the intentions which would have infs.' enced the original grantors, if the whole case bad been fairly before them. Your Committee therefore feel it to be their indispensible duty to recointneud, that such re-, vision should take place before the Annual Estimates,' ih which the thaws alluded to arc comprised, are again Presented to Parliament.' Lord PALMERSTON, in answer to the Hun. Mem ber, read an extract from a Ministerial Circular, of Jtily, 1817, in which it was ordered that no person upon the Superannuation List should hold an appoint 'bent greeter in emolument than that from which he hal been superannuated, without being deprived of the difference between such situation and that which such person had formerly held. After a few words from Mr. Bernal. Lord Palmerston au3 Lord A. Hamilton, The Marquess of LONDONDERRY observed, that there was at this moment under the consideratio►► of tiovernment a measure w i therseuing the scale of Super soma ation Allowances, espect to persons who held public offices. Mr. BENNET supported the Resolution. The Marquess of LONDONDERRY explained. After a few observations from Mr. O. Bennet and Sir Rebell Wilson. the House divided, and there ap peaied--Ror Mr. Hame's Amendment, 22—Against it, SO—Majority against the Amendment, 41. The Speaker then left the Chair, and the House *ent into the Committee. Mr. BANKES moved that a sum of 8,4791. should be granted for the Trustees of the British Museum. — Agreed to. Lord PALMERSTON moved that a suns of 31,6.101. atemid be granted as Compensation for retired and au. kperassaated public officers. Kr. IMAM said, that it appeared by * Return for THE ST•' , MAN, the year before, -that a- saw of 1,3114,14 watt kraatetl for Pensions to retired Officers attiehe4i;tbe StilitarT Colleire—hy the present Return the sum was increased to 1,423/. Lord PALMERSTON said, that an 1114+v:tor-Ge -1 neral had retired from the establishment, and the Return of last year was namie by the College before it was known that that officer could be dispensed with. Mr. HUME wished to know who the indiiidual was who was considered entitled to receive an allowance of 5001. a-year ? Cord PALMERSTON said, the individual was Sir Howard Douglass, who spent upwards of ttventy-six years in the service. Daring the last year it was foend that his services were no longer required, and he was played on the Superannuation List. Mr. lIUME wished to know, whether he also re ceived his half pay Sir H. HARDINGE said, that Sir H. Douglass was an officer of great merit, and was well entitled to his half pay, as also to the provision of 500/. a tear. He had not the aslvaetages of those officers who during the Peninsular War were engaged in the active part of the profession. Mr. BENNET di.l not diFpute the merits of Sir H. Doegl Iss, yet he could not help thinking, that an aT lowance of 5911 1 . a year WAS most exorbitant. lie hail tint, it was said, the advantages of having been en gaged in active servle.- ; he had the a 'vantage of living a t home in quiet, in affluence, and comfort, whilst his brnther officers engaged in the service of their rountrv. were expn'ed to danger, and subject to hardships and privations ; yet the most meritorious offieer, a man who might have spent thirty or forty years of his life in the public service abroad, would be only entitled to a provision of 198/. a year. M ET a few observations front Colonel DAVIES, the Resolution was agreed to. A grant of ft,6861. for Superannuated Officers so the Irish EstablishUlent, was next moved sod agreed to. Lor I PALM F.RSTON next moved a sum of 33,000/. Exchequer Fees on Army Services. Mr. objected to the grant. The idea of the public being obliged to pay for the payment of their own money, appeared to him most preposteross. He would wish to see all the charges for the different de partments debited to the account of the Consolidates' Fund—an arrangement which would greatly tend to simplify the accounts, and would at one view chew the amount of each particular office. Sir C. IAiNG contended, that there was no difficulty whatever in the accounts. Any Member, by merely moving for them, would, as a matter of course, he furnished with the accounts incident to any particular office. Mr. HUME wishes' to know whether there was any intention on the part of Government to abolish those office fees, and to charge to the Consolidated Fund a tam in lien of them ? The CII ANCEMA OR of the EXCHEQIfER replied, that those fees were regulated by law, and were the vested rights of indivisleals. He should think, that by interfering wills them, the House would enter into a very c, olirated inquiry with li ttte advarrta4l.. sl r. lIU %IF wished to know whether, on the death of the persons now entitled to them, the fee; would be abolished, or was it intended that they should be set tled on their s u ccessors 'the CHANt ELIA Gt of the ESCIIEQUF,II said, that in the event of new appointments, such appoint-j went. %%wild he open to any new regulations that ;nicht he c onsidered nrcest.ary. Mr. ti. BENNET objected to the system of fees altogether. lie bad no objection to pay liberalle persons employed its the public service , but he woul d wish to see thew paid by votes of that House, not by tees. Mr. BUMF. said, that fees in the Customs load been already abolished ; he fOuld not see why tee` connected with °elitr departments should vol be abolished also. After a few works frqm Sir C. LONG, the Resolit ti in was agreed to. Lord PALMERSTON next twsvel a Resolution for a stem of 21"0,410iti. for that Disembodied Militia of Great Britain, and a similar charge of 1,3;340/. for the Disembodied Militia of Ireland, which were agreed to. Else Holm then resumed, and the Report was or dered to be talt-ii into further consideration on Fri day ir t. The Hereditary Revenue of Scotland Bill went through a Committee: to be read a third time on rid a y. POLICE OF THE METROPOLIii. Mr. CLIVE moved the second reading u: the Me tropolis Police Bill. Mr. BERNAL suggested, that stated and adequate salaries should be given to the police officers, and th st they should not be left to draw remuneration foam those who had already suffered enough in the damage to their property. or violence to their person* by the crimes which these persons were employed to detect. It was also to be o bserved that the constable* of the night were allowed in their bill to take bail from per sons charged with petty misdemeanours. It should be imperative on the constables to take sufficient bail, if it was tendered, its such cases. Mr. BENNET said, he was sorry that the Honouryl able Gentleman (Mr. Clive) had thought tit to bring forward this hasty and insufficient measure, without consulting the persons who were most interested and hest informed as to the matter of it. Never, after all that hail been said of the Police of the Metropolis in that House, was there any thing proposed so ineffici ent to all good purposes, so mischievous in general, and so dangerous in particular parts, as the Bill be fare them. He was very sorry that Ike step which be had suKgeted, and which experience bad shown to be beneficial in the case of the Prison Bill, bad not been adopted, viz the sending the Bill to a Committee above 1 stairs, where alone details could be examined in an 1 e ff e ctual manner. The Bill had been brought in with out consultation with the Magistrates of the metropo lis, or with those who were most conversant with mat ters of police, except as a mere verbal co nmunication with the Home Office, when the Police Magistrates went op with their monthly reports. It was easy to say a good police was desirable. There was no diffe rence as to the end—the only difference was as to the means of attaining it. Now this Bill merely took away the Office at Shadwe s 3 i rd added one foe Ma ry-le-bone, but, with that ei ea, left the whole ips- Tarc the Police, which had get prowed utterly efierent, just as it found it. NO one could be ign. rant of the vices of this system whe had read the evi denee before the Police Consmittee, or the publications on the subject ; in one of which, by a very Alain- Enished memher of the Police Magiatracy, it was stated to be i• essentially corrupt." The cause of this was, that there was great service. great temptation, and little pay. Yet with all this well known, the service, the temptation, and the pay remained all the same. It was a fact which be would pledge himself tu prove by the evidence of Police Magistrates, that there was not a felon committed who might not compound if he had money; and the mode by which this was to be done was by corrupting the Officers of Justice. Ile did not mean to say that there st as not among those officers anise honnerable and conscientious men. It was from them that he had received the clue of the greatest part of the information he had abstracted before tbe Police Committee. They had given him the information, brit they said their situation was such that they begged lor would not call them but in every instance, the quer 'ions they furnished him with, drew sucl: informatios from the Matristrates themselves as corroborated their statements. The cause of the corruption was, that the of- I firers were so ill-paid. The first police officer had only ' one guinea a week. They might get an additional al lowance indeed at times, if they were employed by is- I dividuals, or app.rinted to attend the Royal Family. But there was no remuneration for danger, no allow.' aut.'. on account of wounds or injory to health, no pension on retirement when they were worn out in the service, no pensions to their family if they lost their lives. It was true, indeed, that the Crown, in parti cular cases, doled out pensions, hut by law they were not entitled to any. The Mon. Member then read an extract from the evidence of a moat efficient and re spectable officer (Mr. Vickery) before the Police Com mittee, statin,g these facts, and ae.ding that he (Vickery) hail heel! nearly cut to pieces in apprehending two men for a mailer, and had been cmitined six months to his bed without receiving the smallest allow:tore. Ile spoke in behalf of those oflieers from justice to the public. They were put in a sititeion its which they had great power to du harm as well as to do good, and if they dill not get money in a f sir way, they would take it by joining that conspiraey against the peace 410 property ef the public, which it was their duty to frustrate. The next poiut was as to the constables : in this depattusent the same corruption prevailed. Three-fourths of the constables performed their duty by deputy. These were the men who were to be made by this Bill julges at night, while they were to be thief-talcers by ilay. A friend of his, Mr. Baugh Allen, had published an excellent pamphlet, in which he stated that a man had served as a constable whom he knew to he a thief, and who hail been convicted as a rereiver of stolen goods. Yet this man threatened Mr. Allen with a mondamet,r for refusing to swear hies in a: ain as a constable. How coold these men be otherwise than corrupt ? They led a life of dredgery at the Police Uffices and Conrts of Justice, and they were left to pick up their living by setting their nausea at the hack of indictments. There was a %jugular fart whirl. illostt stet! this mode of ataitting hood, *hid. had been stated to him by a Counsel Ishii was in the habit of attending the Old Bailey. Before' the Bill which he (Mr. II.) haul brought in, by which the reward money on the L ooyiction of felons was abo lished, there never war a caSe of felony in which there was not a man from sonic police-office to prove the con fession of the offetols•r ; since that time such a thing was never heard of, anti fur two years before the obser vation was made to him, not an instance hail rocs urred. Now all these things were below the notice of the Bon. Flitter Secretary. There were also the High Consta bles. Ile would not say that they were all cot ropt, but there were among' thrum persons who bad fled front their parishes to avoid their creditors. It was curio'' , that these constables, high and low, were almost always coal-dealers. The coal trade attracted them all, as the tnagnetic rock in the Arabiau Nights drew out the nails of the ship which happened to conic near it. The secret of this \VAS, that they supplied with coals the brothrels and alehouses, and in return answered for their charac ter, or scieetterl them front detection. There was one of those persons who bad been brought before the Police Committee who bad been proved utterly unworthy of the office which lie held, and who yet in defiance of law and decency, was kept in his office by the trading jus tices of his district. 'rite best law in hands such as these conld have no effect. I n this instance economy was foolish. He did not wish to see a system of pro fttsion, still less a police, which some gentlemen were advocates for, like that of Paris, in which the servant was set as a spy upon his master, and in which there was a prying and vexatious interference, which kept the whole of the community in irritation (without by the by preventing crimes) ; bat he wished to see a system of police, of which they had something approaching to an example in the city of Loudon. Within the city the officers were better paid. The result was, that Mr. Bill Suauses, a gentleman with whose acquaintance he was honoured, did not like to ply his vocation within Tem ple Bar. The numbers of the officers at the different offices were insufficient and unequal. In the Marlbo rough-street district there was a population at the last census of 270,000, now probably 300,000; yet attached to this office there were no more than eight constables. Worship-street offive district had a population of 163,000 and six constables; and Queen -square, with only 24,000 population, had the same number as the district with 300.000, viz. eight (there were besides only those wretched parochial constables of whom be had spoken). At Bow-street, indeed, which was a favoured office, there was more expenditure. Rut Bow-street was mot, as it was commonly considered, a head or snperintend ing office. It was the chief office ; but there was as lit tle correspondence between that and the other offices as there was between Bow-street and t ()lice Minister at Paris. They did not even send h crnlars to one another at the end of the day in ease of signal frauds or offences. There was certainly now great ' care in the selection of tempos appointed to the Police Magistracy, *for which great praise was doe to the Noble Lord at the head of the Home Office. But this was of no • avail while then was an improvement among the officers. The groat' iltbeation of the Bill was to extend ihe power ef apprehending persons who were described an thieves in pnblic places, to all parts of thi t rr e v a tilis. Tbe late Sir Samuel IlLseailly bad moillided that the former limited power . . was Most unjustifiable and unconstitutional. Th e e part of the evocation he should leave to others; bat al to the practical benefit, he should say, that he did sat believe that the apprehension of a single thief would ensue f.om it. The power was put into the hand o f every corrupt constable, and he had no doubt they the great sufferers would he Irish labourers, who w ere poor and destitute, and the practiee would only h e considered like the apprehension of vagrants, &mob ' , easy way of earning five shillings. The diuretics which they even now possessed was such as honest e. Beers scarcely ever dared to exercise. This they b stated to him ; but they burl also stated that there we re needy and greedy persons enough about the Ar m who would exercise it. The Honourable Member ro.. eluded with observing, that if they had inferior poll,„ officers, well selected, and adequately paid, and r ,.. spec table magistrates, made as independent as posiii, of any interest, with such an administration ofje e rk,.. as would not indispose the public to the cnnvirtiss offenders, they would have done more towards d. t— prcssion of crime than by establishing the French pr,. ing system of police.—(Hear.) Mr. CLIVE Said, many suggestions of the Honour. able Gentlesian might he considered in the Conun'a. tee. lie cossidered there was no necessity for aS. lect Committee, as there had been already four Cow iuittees, and three eery full reports on this subject. Mr. DENMAN objected to several of the claws et the Bill, especially with revert to the powers wltica it was proposed to grant to Magistrates. The MI ought in his view, to be divided into MO nieaaures, the provisions to continue the present Police Act beiaz unexceptionable; while the others referring to novel regulations, were liable to serious ob;ectinus, tape. cially with respect to the power of Magistrates is punish what were called vagrants. Mr. B. BATHURST vindicated the measure, lt• serving that any amendment desired *night be cuusi dered in the Committee. After a few observations from Messrs. !WANE? and CLIVE and Alderman WOlll, the Bill was red a second time, and ordered to he committed os iLs day fortnight. Upon the .Motion for the third reading of the fr:st Court of Chancery Bill, Mr S. RICE rose, and animadverted upon the &Ise in this Bill, to allow the Clerk of the Crews - Hamper in Ireland to receive the usual fees, as they were called, in his °like, although those fee) wet: double the amount of that to which lie wits entitled by l ate, respect to writs foe Shenk alagistr4tes, alg a i - a isTra e t s i p ,s c a i t a rd ily elective Peers. After a few words from Mr. C. Grant, Mr. Gentler, Mr. Rice, and Sic G. Hill. the Bill n. time and passed. The other Orders of the Day were and the house adjourned at twelve o'ci MINORITY OF nor IrrEaN FOR AN ADDRESS To NIS M FROM MALI-PAT UPON FULL-PAT stall I CA PA OLE TO SERVE, IN ORDER TO RED/ OF TIIE lIALF-FAT LIST• Hon. 11. O. Rennet, R. Reroal, R. Creesev, S. Graham, Lord A. Hamilton, . bisrd, Hon. C. Hiitchinsun. _J. B. Alone Rice, TER . Wilson, Ald. Wood, LLERSCuI. Davies and Jos eph MINORITY OF THENTT•TWO I'PON MR. HUME'S GRANT TOE serreasttsurriosi AND ANCE, t• via L .4 COMMITTEE UAD RE' ENT GRANTS., TO ASCERTAIN THOSE ' MORE ArrOININLISTI AND PENSIONY. Cul. J. Reline, 11. Bright, R. Bernal. H. Cavendish, R. Clialoner, T. Creevey, W. Evans, It. Farmed, S. (graham, Lord lion. E. Harhord, lion. C. Hutchinson, B. Month. S . O'Grady, S. Rice, R. Sir It. Wilson, M. Wyvill. TELLtas—J Hume, Hon. If. SOUTHEND AND S CKETHEERNESS P. The following extract of iletter is of this morning, with a view to correct respecting the Southend and Sheerness which appealed in several of the jou days ago lam induced from which I feel confident will be a sufficient you to give publicity to the same, to of the circumstances sttending the p said packet down the river on Mahan% day the proprietors of the Britannia and many other of their friesils to accain an excursion to Southend previous for the season, for which purpose she morning removed front Deptford, w' gene a repair, to the Tower Stairs. strain it was discovered that a small of the boiler, through which the steam as fast as it was made, had not been the workmen. As the passengers bad proprietors, to prevent disappointuten proceed under sail, with the hope, and the engineer, with the expectation leak in the boiler by the time she but after making several ineffectual a. certained that it could not be accomplished day. By this time the vessel had r Woolwich, where, in consequence we were obliged to anchor ;—but from being • dreadfully alarmed," oar safety was never at any time ex and instead of ' 1 making signals of ing into the boats with irupetuosi, alongside, that most of us staid on afterwards, and not till all the stea m the boiler did a few o f the passengers Woolwich, which they were induced only of the lateness of the hour, that the Britawais won,lrt be able I am, Sir, your most übedien Deptford, May I, MI. Within the last few days the atmosphere, and the aspect of the gone a very rapid and agrees' ten days ago. the bills in the were covered with snow, And the almost suspended vegetation.. days the temperature of the atnies foraily genial, with copious 'boa have again pat on their verdant der this town was visited by a accompanied by a very heavy fa tinned nearly the whole of the lowing remarkable circumstance storm :—A crow, as it was hoveri struck by the lightship and fel nags of Daniel Wilson, Esq. bf was proceeding on the road bet Untitain.--0/ 'Winos land Gazette, wA) read A this, and Cong then disposed r' ' •f having, o'clock till Fria.). 1 Letters thoteli In : MAJVATTTOIRIviI fairs in ti II oiIIOCERS As Ate .DECE THE EXPENCL Ifttet f it a fro-. the R. Chalon/Pr, Thee. is called t Iton, Hon. E. liar- kyr. s• - fig-VOsoidatich OnC It' yttik • A., ,seph Home. The Mi lal.ioars, a II MOTION RIO to Memhers a RETIRED ALAN' EVIIIED THIL Dime they are o E WHO lIIILDIII IIIR oppressor ,Is. of high a real. J. Birck,lka si , led at vey, Colonel DEIHL fienoa 1 1 )1 Lord A. Hansillse, non, J. Maxweil,l. a f Avottru ~ Smith, Md. Ifesi, of the S weighed 11. G. Bennet. tional fr. iies.s STRAW tat it is Alemani i s given from a p!of this el .recta mis.statewest procee.ll .naps Steens Path'' , fill ; rat Almelo two 0r.116 0 late co a a sense of jastice. Busman fficient intluceniest to to send a tree Moil Better a ! passage of the alter . .gerous i inlay last. On gal People ' s iis had invited oft/ univerl I accompany dew 4 that TN to the vessel statist he was early on tbst 0 bj,E4t 4 where she had iumitP secure .6. On pottage* . when- ill crevice is IMO * ..4 steam escaped IN* 0a en before n oticed W Tli had all assetnbied• i* lii tenon', were iodated . As , and from the repaid A th ion of reisedyiag * .%. v th reached Linaohol. ! isylp e la) attempts it VIII de h asilihu otnplished till ticeet d reached a miblo blr , i _ the A l a of meeti n g tht on that fi so far were Bey st, ° inst.& ," that the ',astir"' expressed by efi!,m. in Chi of distress," and '' eli e : Zoom last 61 pity,' when the, o°'•_, on board to die eleein Dee leans had bees sede l• fairs I engers go oe 1110 10 aced to do oe . t ies oi l has el that it was ...... tpi e to return to the iew . “ it to g te dient servant, J. k spotic ..... p ie . I -- * the temperature of the swan, have af ire able change. Vise if Th e viiihity of this tog a here the chill wintry Eiti 4l feel a Hot daring the lo t I is thi tneesphere has lire. asi - *hat shoe se r e suit the Eris of th at rohes. Ott ired o" on ~ a violrnt thouJer stas h ma t t : 'Kati fall of r ain, which coo whil sate Inc' tioitivieettimurillesitrer:gulArnri:ri!ilinti,ohl'are.iihar:.ir,ior.hrpg: ow.tvl. rzfeetlfly,d.riaeiraurtatr. the r i ' i. tr e at:4 i • , . L :1 6. 0 . 10 leg 1 F11. 0 . T11 Pak Stock 1 Fir MA. I • Pet Cats. - apse Ct. tam se e Cast. jog Ass. 111 L .,. I f ar CM friat b Pe r °I miss Mortile• teMS " TVS .111011. , , . . . • m..''''''''''' TI ?fen wrat is o rriala Cooplissio ,!!f $ so t roll 'real ters In M 1 1