The Statesman. — London, England, 1818-03-12 00:00:00

i one ofils-se vibe felt very coefideat its the permi tter.** of the public secority. It was impossible to invert it in the existing or prospective state - of world, considering elle state of -chi dontioent, the me mber 'of foreign colonies embiteing .Nabs there-' selves every form of gov er n me nt, sa g every specks of the bowie imee—iti • the neighbourhood toe, of a colliery growing !pinta liter-eating, *kh a velocity more 'rapid even .than thought. It Wesdificalt to kontensplate such w mate of . things • witkent a vio-aed epprehension.—[fleas, hear !]-The lionnukabte ,Member then alluded to the conduct of the Spies.— The facility with which •o;iver was received) he ed. doted as a proof of the spirit of disaffection which nevailsd. So Wog as ho aed.the latsicailtise spiel becommended physical furce - and contestation, they were eagerly listened to. T. secret Igns*koPi of. Until it was discovered that they were , *kw, and not lilt then were they rejected. some Weight had been tiven to the story told in the House, that Oliver ut. bred sedttioes4aagoage on,the day the outrage waS bomneitted against the Prince Regent. He thought ir.ry .tonic first t nit wee kept a secret-for .more than a .*essr. If it hadn't.** revealed at the proper time, it 'Siert led to moo metal resales:—Lficar, I . !sear llloon this as well ow upon amity othersub. 'kcts, the People seterapt to feel strongly, and ha new of more that, one instance where the current of the public feeling was directly against the public in kerest.—Ellear, _hear il s —ryon the subject ot, ati. yo, they wero apg to he **sills smiled. Its had opposed the Iteforte which was demanded ; not that be would envy the People any thalibestr which they espeoted if, derive from it, bet beeriness he felt conscious that Universal Suffrage and Anatol Per. fitments would altiesately level tadespotises....E7hie Speech mat loudly . cheered for leveret minute: by the Manisteriel Beaches.) • Mr. BROUG liA SI was not surprised at the cor dial reception which the speech of 14 . 110 n. Friend bad esperienced from Geotlemsu at do other side of the House. It had gone so far in ipplautting the conduct of Miuisters, that ft. &tweed the weed of their approbation. Is answering dime atgententa he might confine himself to the few last sentences • of his Honourable, Friend's speech ; it bore is no re. spest upon th, immediate question before the House, and was equally suited to any other point that might chance to come ender discessiee.--(//ear, hear ) The only argoments then In support of the measure, were, that, during the last Sosponsion, persons might lave intrigued the law for a salutary purpose, whe were well deserving of indemnity—and that e certain danger, but of what nature was not stated, might atp tend the Informants of Government, should their names be made public. In the former argument he partly concurred. The illegality of Magistrates might, under certain circumstances, be deemed meri. Visions, bet the indemnity now sought was not for 4heas only. It confounded Magistrates, who deserved well of their country, with Oliver, and such miscreants as Oliver, and held out to both an equal protection. .11et with respect to the danger attending informants, be besought the House to reflect, whether, in circling. stances much more alarming than those of the pre. sent times, any danger had attended the producing •and public examination of witnesses. He iostauced the cases of 1812, and the trials et Derby, in-both of which Ituirdrelt of witnesses had been produced, ' and had sworn away the lives, in the former, of no less than 18 perilous, and, in the latter, of (hi...— Bet what danger had arisen to the witnesses ? Was one thresteneti ? Yes, one was threatened, and ibis very circumstance rendered his argument , 'the stronger ; for the person supposed to hare threat lined was brought to trial, end acquitted, solely on account of the difficulty of b'ontifying him. The case occurred in 1812, and was this. He ore it en his own authority, having been Comm.! for all 'the prisoners at York. At that period the country Was Infested with a ,spirit of Luddism, such as had lately been manifested into rebellion, and some per. bons its the dead of night called upon a matt. Who, it was understood, intended to give evidence tgainst some of the prisoners. One person kept tins in conversation, wMle another fired a pistol at wnereby he lost the use of one eye. This man. 'weever, subsequently appeared at . the trials, and gam evidence against the prisoners, as did many others, although their -ohyett was to endanger the lives of the most 'cherished members of the existing -conspiracy, whom the country was then taught to call rebels. The time facility of bringing forward evi dence appeared at Derby; and with Such examples It urea Idle to speak in vague generalities of dangers, übich, in more agitated times, and under less fa 'lovable circumstances, was not found to • have anglsted. , — [Bear, hear, hear!)--itis lion. Friend seined to triumph in the observation he bad made on the 'silence hitherto (knower, respeetiog the re ' egnititlet of Oliver in the Part -vis the days Wheat the Prince :Heroes person axis insulted. But it shoat! be rativeirbesed, that not mote -than Wee or feu, siesta hate *lama sines it toeld be safe to Imes given loth isiormettes.—(4 delta from the Nteisteriet finaeltes.)—Geoltiemett -may set think this realms sclad; therefore he should, in his own -vindication, stria why it had cc. cursed to his mind. During the liesponsion of the .when Corpus those-only who. had ends its enemy aittOliere were imprisoned.. -It had iedeeil since beetr • *rid that no person had been committed on Oliver's alb alone ' • but how -could the Public have been estate. of th at? Olives' was to- be seen in constant nemmetticatios with the Secretary of State ; he-was liken finnilisr of the-Office ;- he might be supposed to ham *itemised no ineoesiderable influence, .when these oho had been displeasing to him were Gni tweedy fiend among the victims of secret informs. ties. Was it nothing for a man of family, of busi ness, to mak e an enemy of'a miscreant- like {his, who could taint with his breath the scene of happiness?— The case of. Alt. Schtdes was decidedly in point, who, because. he had threatened Oliver with laying leformatinos "Oust him before a Magistrate, when be had spoken of .sing physical force, was in 48 hoots curled off to a prison. The acts of such a man, however innoceous they might pass over the heads of most of those in the. Ilouse,• were not to be disregarded ivy men •in so irst.i.ble state of life.— Tee Hon. Member then adverted to - the mode in Which the Petitions presented to the House bad been neglected, and spoke of the inconsistency of i not crediting the last .words of Brandreth and Tamer, while belief was attached to a detliratiea made by • ethos its similar circumstances, re specting the bad .charostm. of Francis Wird.—=... lie hed.heon desir,Costr it, hive the Petitions mutinied by .a Committee,. but the President of the Board. of Trade bad ontreated,thiclfoose, in the name of troth and justice, not to destitute an enquiry, Truth sod Justice had frequently been invoked in a sorry cause. but tine more,sorry had. never occurred than this, wherein no enquiry wee to take place for the disco very of either. Such a. denial on the part of the Muse woo cot a good cis sufficient auswer to those who might assert that the Hosiso.was not the Kepre seutatite of the Mahon, ithen,thsy proved their de viation from.the-good old coustitutiooal masks, that the loose of Commons, in standing between the People and the Crown, brad the complaints of the former with a willing„ . aod. the defence of the latter with jealous ears.—( Loud choeriseg front the Opp.- Hoooersble Member then shelled to, 'the alarming intimation given by his Hon. Friend of the existence of a spirit of disaffection in the great body of the manufacturing classes of the country, and, ridiculed the desire. he had espressos.' of re.. 11 posing an , increased confidence in Ministers, ho muter , who they might be, in proportion to the ,increase. of their powers. That confidence, like the treason alluded to, might sometimes sleep, hot should never.die; it was to belong not to the Dili nisiers but to the place, uninfluenced either by the character of the oleo or the circumstances of the country. The. oharge, however, against the manu facturing classes, if it proved any thing, proved too much; it tended to show that this country was an longer calculetad to email freedom; that it bad; outlived the times of its free Constioutiou, when clanger was to be dreaded from those manufacturers who were its. legitimate produce.—(Hear, hear !) to answer to what had Mien on a former night from' an lion. Member (we presume llr. Fremantle), who had spoken . of his own coniistency, and had de fended himself on the authority of Mr. Ponsoutty, he begged leave, in justice to the memory of his lamented friend, to state, that although Mr. Ponsonby had agreed with the Committee, he totally dissented from the subsequent measures. Mr. Pousonby was a strenuous defender of the Constitelimi, and knew its value too well to destroy by his vote the liberty of his country,—[ Loud cheer:l-11r (Mr. P.) held by the 'natio, that it was a gross delusion tit those who af fected to hold geneio• Whig principles, to abandon, on the slightest appearance of danger, the Security of the Constitution against the power of the Crown and the madness of the People. His language was ever, " and oh !" exclaimed Mr. BroiNhim, e' that he were here to ring it in the ears of the lion. Gent."— his langur; was, " let us preserve the Constitution and we shall fear neither confusi , os from abroad nor corruption within, nor the power of the Crown," which he dreaded more than all. The lion. Member then adverting to the high station acquired by this country by her free form of Governmen., added, that if the new doctrine of confidence broached that night 1 1 were to be carried into eff , ct, it mattered little who bore office. or who wanted it, it was of little im portance what might be the forms of the Constitution, the substance of the thing was gone, and with it the liberty of the country must be lost for ever.—[Laud cheerios: from the Opposition.] Mr. LAM BE, in explaosiion, denied that he had attributed to the manufacturing districts any pimal spirit of disaffection. Mr. CANNING thought this Bill was connected with the Susperi.ion of the Habeas Corpus Act.—The necessity, however, of a Bill of Indemnity grew nut of the circumstances of the country, in which necessity the Suspetssion Act originated. This state of the country rendered it necessary for those who acted ender the Gov-roment, if they meant to do ' their duty—to outstrip the limits of the law. The seine state of things that produced this necessity, in duced the House to mike a temporary sacrifice of that portion of our liberties; and out of these cit. comstances had grown tlee necessity of indemnifying them for the acts they hid committed, and of which , 'etiey could slot make a full justification, without an •-aposure of the evidence that had been laid before them; that was, to indemnify them for having com mitted sets beyond the law, and to dispense with the , necessity of their justifying acts in themselves, bat legally ndt firoireoble, escept by evidence that could I ssue be disclosed. The very nature of the measure was Ito enable Government to detain specifically any suspected persons, without bringing them to trial --. , [near, hear I] —Non. Gentlemen bad denied the force of precedents ; serf he was far from saying that titers existed a precedent corresponding in all its parts with-that which Parliament had sanctioned.- IBut if they looked backwards, and saw the seeds of such a measure, they had a right to infer the litres , sit, of adapting them to any future exigency. They must agree that the first year of King William was as whiggish a year as could be found in our history ; endive that year a Message came down to the (louse, Mating reports of private meetiogyfor the purpose of misting Alb/ Ames, and adding that his Majesty had- nosed persons to be apprehended and coofined, but was unwilling to detain them, in case he should do any thing contrary to law. This pointed direct ly to the-case. "The Whigs of 1688 sanctioned the acts committed by the Whig King; and on them grounds, if Ministers had abused the powers which thin-piectident furnished them with, far be it hem [hew to ley they ought not to be called to account.— Now, as to the Petitions, let any mats look hark to lllPllt.Petitions, end examine how far they were borne eel by facts. Was every matt who had been let loose, le be alloyed to come to the bar, sod say he had been most cruelly treated, and was the most inno cent of mankind, and that lot merits alone had point ed him nut for persecution ? There were Petitions of 1 every class, and many which imputed all that had pass ed to Oliver. This man was said to have gone into the country as a delegate, but that was not strictly the fact. Mitchell was the London Delegate, and not Oltter ; they were both in company together—they went down from Leaden together—and it was very re, matkable, that the things• said of Oliver, had hap: petted with regard to another person. Gentlemen, who said they could prove so many things against Oliver, merely stated, that they had respectable wit nesses ready to prove such and such things; acid they dill not think proper to name one of those re spectable p -rums. It was said, that one Gentleman had heard Oliver say, the Government mast be over turned by physical force. If this Gentleman way nob STATESMAN._. a.siastentity, mist he pet byre bees guilty of Mil risen of treason, its wet imosedietely disclosing what e had heard, and gisine isformatiou of such treason to the Government ? The fact was, that if such a man existed be wished the rebellious to succeed ; bet he wag too great a coward to assist in carrying it on. kw Hen. Member opposite, hut, on a former night, told a slaty of a respectable Gentleman who stated that he had seen Oliver near the Horse-Guartknn the (ley when the Prince Regent sent to open both Houses of Parliament, and beard bim exciting the populace to acts of rebellion. This was another W iliame of respectable authority, without any author being named. Why did not the Honourable Member mention the name of this person, in order that the Public might be able to judge of his respectability, and veracity ? If the story in question was true. he (Mr. Canning) would assert, that this very respect able Gentleman, was, in fact a treitor—that he wished the insurrection to go on ; and he now hated Oliver.becasse he was sot a traitor. —[llear, hear !] —Then, an Honourable Gentleman had the other; night given a History of Chips and Shavings, in order to attack the character of Oliver. and talked of a cause in the Court of King's 'Bench, and of an affair bemoan arbitrator • and the House was then desired to go in a Chang e d St wings Committee, to enquire into that man's charmer. If the affairs of a country could' , be carried on with that tranquillity, which must be the II is la of every one who respected the Government un der which he lived, it would be much better to do witti est such men as Oliver. But, when a country was threatened with danger, from the traitorous designs of great numbers of persons, and the extensive con• spiracles with which those designs were intended to be brought to maturity, he defied the utmost event of human wisdom to devise any means by which sects ' conspiracies could be detected, except by the em ployment of Spies and Informers. These were the only means by which the dodgers that threatened a nation could be averted ; and he defied. any Gentle. mass on the opposite side of the House to point out the means by which a Government thus threatened with danger could go on, without drawing its infor. (nation from what they called polluted sources. According to the arguments of the lion. Gentlemen on the other side, the moment a matt gave such in formation to the Government he was unworthy of being trusted or believed. A new Informer was then to be employed to give some fresh article of infor mation ; then he was to be immediately dismissed, and- another nest be employed to give an account of I some other proceeding. Thus it would be neces s a r y to have a different Spy for every article of inform,. Lion that was to be obtained, and more than ball the mischief would be accomplished before Government could come to a knowledge of it. All this would happen if the history and character of every In. former was to be enquired into; and the Informer would be like the may described by our immor.al 134 r— d drew let irrg Priaw's entrain at the draft of [light, Awl had hen half his Tray was band. It was indeed of little use to give such information, when half the city was destroyed by in enemy; but if on receiving such information, King Priam, in stead of rising from his bed, had kept the Informer ' until he gave him a history of- his birth, parentage, and education, he should, indeed, have pitied the old Monarch for his simplicity and folly. Whatever thecharactera of Informers might be, he asked the Gen. denten other side, whether, because they might not be as 'arteries as they wished, the councils of the Go t vernmeot were to be hermetically sealed against them? He lamented that the Habeas Corpus should ever he suspended; but when there were persons in the coon. try who took advantage of the distresses of the lower classes, to convert them into instruments of rebel. lion ;—who wanted to torts the misfortunes of a day, into the desolation of ages, it was necessary that a new power, not usually authorized by the Consti tution should be directed sgairist such men ; and these were the only persons against whom the Soo pension Bill was intended to operate—these men, in favour of whom, it was contended by Hon. Gentle. men opposite, that they should sit in the judgment seat while the Ministers who lead endeavoured to saveahe country from their machinations, were to be brought to the her, and tried before them as .cul-* piits.—(//ear!)---Did the Hon. Baronet who was every day !eying multitudes ,rtf Petitions for Reform, before that House, expect that he could make the Members believe that such a Parliamentary Reform as was asked for in those Petitions, 'was the Reform wished for by the nation ? These Petitioners wanted Universal Suffrages ; but lupin, they had their limits -kg point of Universal Suffrage; for in their envy, they excluded females, and excluded the insane from the right of voting. He would now ask who were she best friends of the People, whom Ministers were accused of reviling—these who told them that they had wrongs which most be redressed, or those who told them that they had rights, and, at the same time. that they had duties to perform t Nothing had been inculcated by their pretended friends into the minds of the People, but a hatred to the Government.— The Prop!e were told that ell their grievances trot* out of an imperfect Representation in Parliameot.— They did not believe any such thing; their pretended friends wanted to make them instruments to pull down every thing above them. Mr. LAMBTON, pledged his honour that be could prove the fact be stated respecting Oliver.— The Gentleman who gave. him the information. was in the otercetaile professioso—he was a person of respectability ; and after he witnessed the conduct of Oliver, he did mention it to several persons; but be did not go and tell Lord Sidusnoth of the fact, be cause Oliver was employed by Lord S:dmootb.— ( Hear, hear t) Mr. CROKER asked, why, when Proclamations wt:re issued, offering rewards for offenders on the day in question, did not this person of respectabi lity go and give such informatiou as Wield serve to ,bring the offender to punishment ? For all the miseties Oliver had inflicted on his felloW-rreavores, those were answerable who did not stop him in his career, when they knew he wall committing crimes. Those persons alone were auseetable for the crimes of Oliver. Sir JOHN NEWPORT rose amidst loud cries of " Qeestion, question," and advanced several argu ments a e aUst the Bill. He said that the corn p ions of Parliament, the extravagance of Goverumete. the distresses of the People,- avid the large Mi:itarz Esti- ,~~ r • ~ ... ..__ . . blishmen , s, were th e real causes of petite . ontedlt; and until .11 these C 41119411 were remised there nem Would be content. or tranquillity in the comer,. My. BARNETT trolled there iwas .tilt rhararlet . and hontior enough lefein the Reese so triers ei hilt which !Winkler* had int rodaced, Iw order to protect them:else* %rinse the coolequances of thidt °lvrea site conduct. The House tl3.p,eliyidt...4 , . Fur the Speak e r le AT: i r Ike 104 , air ... • 258 Agairbt it aujerity , .• • • • • — 175 The douse then went into-the Gorontitter; when the Chuironan reported propeis. and the roetosittee ob. taineilleave mint again this day. The other Orders of the Day being rliaposed of; klti House adjourned at half-pus( one this elotaint. - v FRENCH. PER.% _ • PARIS, ARP, 8.--On Sunday night Wit Obi 4th inst.) a 'fossil haling been discharged in th e Champs Elysdeo, behind the D u ke o f Wellington'i hotel, the guards instantly hest to the sentinel dt the bottom of the garden, who declared that he hod been attacked by ',aerial persons who wished to get into the hotel, and that one had ill.trrated hid greatly. The Duke ordered 100 tranci to be given tti the soldier, who, being carried before General Di.spiools, was forced to confess, after a long inter. rogatory, that it was all a story, and that it was he who fired off his gun through tear. fie was forth with sent to the military prison at Montaigu. It is now said, that, by an alteration in the Con. cords!, there is only to be one BiShop for cacti Department. The hurricane of the yid of February committed frightful ravages over a great part of Blitanny. Trite* were torn op by the roots, houses were thrown down, and even many people were killed. A person tiding on horseback was raised up and thrown twenty paces. What is more extraordinary still is, that two aromen.who were collecting shell-fish alotig the coast, were raised up and carried against the walls of Mont . St. Michael, by a water -spout, *kith transported them over two rivers. We are afraid to mention the latter fact, although it is attested by a person worthy of credit. Lord Wellington gave a grand dinner on the 3d inst. Prince Talley rand, and the Ambassadors of Prussia end Denmark, were of the party. It is said that the Duchess of Gothland (Queen. of Sweden) will continue to reside at Paris, the climate of the North not agreeing with her consti: lotion. A letter from Albi, of the 24th of February, states, that the Assizes will certainly commence on the lid* of March. For several days the inhabitant% of Albl repair in crowds to the toad of Villefranche to see ?he carriage in which those treated of the murder of Fualdes will he Condocted to the prison of the p a l ac e iif Jostice. Thid spades of carriage, which 14 the in. vention of the Mayor and the Captain of gendarmerie exactly resembles the iron cages which serve to trans. port the ttavelling menageries. It is reported that Madame Constans.Rabot has been arrested at !lodes. Bastide's mistress, Char. Intl. Arlabosse, arrived at Alld yesterday evening, sad Is confined in the Prison of St. Cecilia. This la the girl who, on the first trial, pretended that she had breakfasted with Bastide on the morning after the assassination of Fualdes, between sit and seven o'clock, in a field situated • league from Strong suspicions are entertained against her : it it thought that she is the person whom Bousquier saw its Bancal's kitchen when he recognised Anne Benoit. Madame Manson walked out ibis lay for th e fi rs t time in ihegarden of the Presbytery. She is now eta. plosed in correcting the proofs of her new Memoirs, which will appear under the title of "Plan of Defence addressed to all feeling Hearts." It is said to be an appeal to romantic imaginations. Yesterday, between five and six o'clock in the evening, a violent altercation arose between Baaiide and Jaosion, in which they came to blows. At nine o'clock the quarrel commenced anew, with more heat, and lasted till midnight. M. Fayder, judg. int the occasion favourable, and that justice might derive some advantage from the circomstance. caused both the champions to be conducted to the Tribunals and examined on the instant. The eensd'arines and the turnkey assert, :hat on their return to the dun. goon, Jaosion said to Bastide, " Villain I what host thou said ? Thou art the cause that I languiits iii this prison." Prince Eugene, Doke ale Leochtenherg, has to his Majesty the King of Prussic his hotel, skeet., in the Rue de Bourbon, No. 22, for the sum el ° l 250,000 fs. Galignanes Messenger contains the following article:—" We ere assured that it is not Clenerst' bet. Colonel C. B. who bas seat the message , to Lord Stanhope. The mesas', is enriched the old style, 4 To thee, Lord Stankope—:-Thon dart lied ie thy ihroso.' Lard Stsoltope is a young - whose conduct would injure the hest cruse. (lad he resembled his father, he would not halm committed' himself as he has done." ' 4 *• l The Conatnissiort on the Concordat met yeelaelley.. DRURY-LANK FUivD tINNIVERSARY. , Yesterday the first public dinner s in commemora. lion of the establishment of the Fund of the Theatre Royal, Drary•line, for the Relief of Decayed Actors and .Actresses, instituted by Drvid Garrick, truce. lebrated at the City of London Tavern, the Duke of 'You 1' You in the Chair. The Earl of Essex hiving proposed the health of his Royal Highness the Duke of York, which wag drank with three times three, his Royal Highness, in returning thanks, expressed his satisfiction et the liberal support which the Fund would undoubtedly receive from so numerous and distinguished an as. Nobly, and concluded with proposing " Success to the Drury-lane Theatrical Fund, and the health of its Muter, Mr. Kean." .! Mr. Kurt th eir addressed th e Sleeting, and in a speech, delivered with great animation, described the o igin and nature of the [restitution, aad returner' in the name of his brethren their cordial thaoks for the benevolent ro.operation of his Royal Highness and the priseut Assembly. The collection amounted to upwards of a Ormond pounds,- of whiCh the Prince Regent was graciotudy leased to contribute ode hundred guineas. ..~.~ W+!: M ~;i , r •14 ~~.,