The National Register. — London, England, 1820-10-23 00:00:00

r--, ~,,,-, .74e.-m, , (latir I,ti may. a ow."' atonal( litt to% ear Ettno, Comitittition, anl) latu4. No. 1,275.—V0t. XIII.] 3Jmperial Vartiament. HOUSE OF Lonns. TWELFTH DAY OF THE DEFENCE. MONDAY, OCT. 16. At twenty minutes past tea Counsel were called to the bar. Mr. BROVGH4T.I rose to address Mei-louse. He de clared, that before the cross-examination of the witness Pomi should commence, it was considered by her Ma jesty's Counsel indispensably necessary that they should be informed precisely who was the ads erse party in this a se. The snore he reflected upon the nature of these extraordinary proceedings, the more was he convinced of the necessity of being clearly itifortswd upon that subject, •therwise the diffictiltirs, which were accumulating ra pidly, on all sides, would be increased beyond all possi bility of removal. Lord CALTHORPE expressed a wish In know, for the purpose of having a clear understanding upon the point, Wills which nofuture plestion should interfere, who was Banally the prosecutor upon • this case ? To bins it was quite evident that there was a distinction between being • Minister fur the King and a 3linister fur the State, in a legal point of view ; and he was surprised that his Noble )'s irnd (Lord Liverpool), whose condone hail drawn down the approbation even of those to whom he was politically opposed, bad not at a former part of these proceedings rendered it unnecessary to put the gin stion. Ile had seen It exemplified in the einiduct of the Noble Lord ; there existed the distinction to which lie ethnics' between the Minister of the Crown as a part of the State, and a Ali nister of the King individually. If be were not correct in this statement, he hoped to be corrected by souse Noble Lord of more legal and pat liamentary knowledge. The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, lie had some difficulty in stating what was required ; but he wondered the roes. lion had not been mentioned its an (smiler stage of the proceedings. There certainly was nothirg mysterious in the proceedings. lie had, on the 7th of June, laid ass tlie table, by command of leis Majesty, certain papers retails e to the condact of her Majesty white Paint ess of Wales. He proposed that they should be refei tett to a Secret Committee, and many Noble Lot as thought it the limy of the Earentive Go% el Itlllent to introduce a Bill on the sub ject, lie presented other paper.; they were referred to a Secret Committee; a Repot I was made, and a Bill was broiled in. for lie (Lord Liverpool) was sespotioi ble. In this there was not The alarquis of LANSDO N agreed with the state ment of the Noble Edit apposite, that the House were now enttrialtsitig the Bill. on his suggestion, and that, for the purpose of itistitutieg the inquiry sought for, the House hail created the party at the bar, by appointing the Attorney and Solicitor Generals to appear its Iseliale of the Bill; lint she Counsel for her Majesty haul entered upon a course of evidence, the object 01 whit Is was to establish the e xistence or a e i nisiiiiat.y for the summit:it:no of perjury iii imprint of the pi °scent sum. In pr uvii.g this they bad 10 prove au agency, and how 11011:4 au a „trial he proved before they knew who was the penciled? Ilis rdship conceived, therefore, that tile House weir bound, and should have felt is due to their owls interests, to the interests of justice and of Ii Ol the letters of Col. Brown as related to the absiroutien of astelli should have been called ter, and that u 1 s. Powell should have been compelled to produce it. The Eat! of CAIINARVON directed the attention of their Lent:Mips to that pate of the ease which acts I led to Cat Isi One as illustrating stiongly the necessity of a satis factory ansuer being given to the ipiestross pot by Ilse Counsel rile her Majesty. The whom ut that part of Ilse ease depended torn; the testimony of one wtutcss win had, at the request ()lone petty German Valent a 's., tutu examined by smother, and compelled to come over to ;lir her testimony. 'fir aceesling aizainst tier 3lajesty, dis graceful as it was in every point of slew, she'd sit Ge r niabiaed, that the Id lisp (meld to know %shills( r it comes irons the constitutional advi•Cls at Ike Kiln; tit I:11141 , 111d. 'or front the aIIVIrrIS of the Kim; of bear!) Whist would tiny think es 'itch a Cs:MIMI libel vu the character oh a defines less woman and a ; of .i,i inquity gone into for 1,1 Ulliel' pntpuise bun In. t. i• the character of all injured and persecuted ? ( Hee r, hear, heat!) The a itness Pupa was now recalled, and cross ea; ed by the Attorney Geiseial. Po aaa i , you have •tated that yon it sided in a house at the Balunta. Is that house vow called lint Vlll.l Brig:lll4i i Ye•, at pit sell it is wilt 41 tt,e lt:•rgasui. M lieu did you last see IS , —1 du 1101 trite ; col lees I it must have been lit Aaemt 1 think. Oat you see bias the slay y !et; the Villa Brigand ? I .lid nut. How lung Isefore?—l left the on the 20111 of Septeinuer. I saw him iii A egtist, but Idu not 1.11()w the slay. you swear that you did nut Septeinlieri —I Callbul swear. It litlist base been WI, I I till tit August, or the begiiiiiing of September. I have nu Oil motandum. I cannot tell. MONDAY, OCTOBER 23, 1820. Who desired you to come over as a witness?—No oue ; my own will. Do you mean to swear you came voluntarily, without nay person applying to you for the purpose?.....l came here by my own will, because I heard that the Advocate Ito. lazzi was receiving testimony, and I went to hint 111111 said I 114 11 something to say about that lady, who had done a trent deal of good. s Mill you swear that you went to nolaszi of your awn accord without any application being made to you?—Yea, I will swear that before any tribunal. Wei e you! examined by Bulazzi ?—Ye,. Bolitezi having said you might go, slid yon come over of your own accuril?-1(e.; because I told him. that if it had been a business that required me to go 100 miles, I would go willingly. Dill you <unae over to England by yourself, or in the company of other persons ?-1I came over with my head fussier, Garolitii, and three oilirr petsons. Dill you pay your IAS - 11 1.510'10411 1.11 coming over, in COllselillence of your coming volontatily 1145 not, ' Who paid Them?—\ly head master, who paid all the expellee.; for he paid tor 1111. Who is your brad master 7—Gatolitii. Is he you Master when yon lit e at the Villa Ilergami ? —lle is. What are you to he paid for. coming here as a witness? This is it. When I went to the Advocate, I told inns if this is to be an affair of a little time, I have no objection to go. The question was repeated; when the witness said-1 told him it' I was to go a hundred miles, I would go with out ally interest. • Wlait a:c toot to be paid for conning here?—As to hie pay I etimoi tell, 1.. cause wings 1 saw the Ailsnirate, told him if tic would give ootlie trifle to my family, I w veld go her that lady la the rut( of ilie ant lJ. %Vliiit pay dm s your family leerive ?—Tisis it is; they lye a lit it (t ritprow e) for my wile, and half a livre (five prairt) to vile', of toy chilling' ilauguters). Will yin. swear you have not made au agreement fur a 511111 of Money coo n •g here'—This I eau swear, that I have made 110 agrermaiii whatever; but as some people have hopes. I may have some hopes also. Then I mulct stand you have hopes GI rennineration?— , I have fold you that I hare no hopes. For that lady, the Princess, for tho brorilis I have received from her, 1 would 4 0 the rod of the world. yuu remenilter on one oci onion, zWir; op stairs to mend a dour zit Ow 1 .rona ow am 1 to teungsiber tiiiit having been I heir 10.) times!—(A 1au,11.) Did you aver see her itoyul highness up stairs?—Yes in her owls room. Was it when yoe were mending the door you saw her?— No ; it was whi II col it chtst ut drawers. Was with tier?—` 11, I did lust see him. Alb 0 did you octet. say you saw, upon that. occasion, nr any ni b her nosul Ili;niess and Berg ~,ii in her Royal Mid-room together 1-11 rit , often 1011 I 10 say t• Nii"--4 A luili,a)-1 never did. l uieoer said, nor haus Al ever seta it. Examined by the Lords. Lord GREY.— Was any proiliwilion made to you to give ev Motive avuinst the QtWell, and by is Muss Did no one 510... k to tnu upon the sutijesi of gating evidence azainst the Queen ? Yes, Itasteiii, vaunt 1 inenttnated the nil hi•r A Lunn.—Du yon expect to he paid inure or Los., in pro portion as our esidence is more or leNs favour:Atte to tile to the Qii, en ?-1 uulr say, if they give use, 1 wilt take it. — (.'s I uju,) The Mingo's nf LkN .4)0 VNL nsked wltether is wits lii out: hata's intent' to eltninale ttle nest sr itiiess With respect lii the charge of bribery. Mr. III:ouGH %II -aid he shanitl pursue that (nurse fur the purpose of e-tadiii•hitig the eon-weirs. Lerd CA RN AR VON asked the Nahle Lord (Liverimol) us ho ta.to ailed in Hanover for the case again,t tier !Loyal 11:4 ? Loud 1 Elt mentiourd, there had brew but one ageot its Ilahovvr, and that wa. I I;rrotiill Bottifilio Onzarli ex 4ininrd NI r. WY LOS. Are you Aleuther of the Society of Advnean sat Milani Ye'• 11 ,•re you there. eorircriirli as agent fur Royal 114,hness the PI loce,s %Vale, ? 1)i.I sou tnu t .‘,l%oCale V ?—l[ did. I fad ou at :my time any eunnuuui,xt not ssith l'ilmiearti, re-pe !Mit the Piinees , of %Vales ? I ILA. 1).il you, 111 that Collltiltlllieali.lll, enpiain to VillniCatli yo •r • e enin for cawing It) lint?-1 told the pliant) bt lio tun tluetcd line to hi, door. . . DIA pl,l i.tate ,ortt im•inrss to Vdmicasti 1-1 dial not. ty,a V11.1111%11'11 shat hetvievii you Rllll the pei,oii wha to it )oil In 111 C d, or?—The moment lie ”an me hr kiicor mill 'old Inc to bring the pets biluirging to Mr Itusul Did he oiler 'llll any inducement to 11114,4 tho4c payers? Th SoLICUPtItt-GIENERAL ohjeric.l In tim 0.1114 e cii• glair) e No convermtion hetucea we it und tl,uirn li eitlcltre iu the ci.aige, in La: pre amble of:lie . . . . 41r. ‘llrl.l3li. said, antic:tali nas proved to be an ucete die. it agent, it %1:b urcr,oa ry rose Isis in the Qacen's defence. the 'ninnies of evidence were read by 0 ler of the told Chance nil, %Inch applied to the 01 - 'Le i.hjeet bran,: 50 /14,0,%11 tt heilieinny port iefei is a to iiie 1111 l 10...11':111011 het o yeti the m ilsorss owl I i. . . . Mi. 11140 w (.11 111 Cllllllelllitti IMUA put rt crittil) sit pptirt of the 111%0 aaaa luta tit.cl..crtl the tood p u%e that V ttlitt. at ti had strteti itt thr mu t Ittriort tut 11131111. r. Ile fit at it ti t . blds, and his ',tamed Film!. whine prooperay tattght tin peoil u k roa the issue of tlve root (Okla, Old quest ton—lf we fyitics Sid• are Hat allowed to prove facts of great impoilance to one Royal Client, how is the Queen to proceed further? The SOLICITOR-GCS IMA 1., in reply, defended the elm meter of Vilmicani, who was only known us a person taking down the evidence for the Milan Committee. His Learned Friend had spokes" of b. dies, hut unless they could prove those hi ihes were offered to the witnesses, they t ould not be heard. If Vilinicacti had given bribes, he had not acted within the scope of his authority, and the evidence could not lie irceired. The House then adjnnrned. TUESPAY, OCT. IT. The House resumed proceedings exactly at 10 o'clork. A gentleman from the Treasury presented at the Dar-- I st. An Account of the Revenue tor the last Year! and, 2d. An acco tot of the ex peitses incurred in the proceed tugs instituted against het 314jesty, as far as the $4111•! CM% be made up to the present date.—Counsel were tilt:* v. called in. 'I he LORD CHANCELLOR state I to the Home the position in which the pitteet.ling‘. "ere on tr'jittr • yesterday. Vi ithout Oleo nig all tetivion whether VIIIIIA. earti ought to be considered 4' , 119 11g1.111 or not, his Lore:- ship thought that reset' t shoeld be hail to the Le:tined Judges, in order to Limes. ahat, melee similar tit ewe. •taitees, would lie.the course Of pi ileccililleS id the Colitis below. The case lie would have stated to them nets It in the Iris! of a civil action, or of at indictment. evi dence were given, elm the cross examination of a witness examined iu chief on the part of the prosecution,' flan Witch it might be inferred that A. 11. c, person tan exa mined as a as been eseploi.ed liZeitt nf ihe plaintiff or piosectoor to colter' evidence on t• is be. half; and if she &gentian shutild 'trips'. to examine a t iro sun to prose that the said A. It. had ()Recede' bribe to C. 1). to give es idenov. C. I). net having been a witness examined for th- plallll it er prosecutor, 41 these being no proof that A. IL hail atol'utily to use 0n..,t0s to ebtaito esitlenee, %timid stool examiltatun b permitted by the praesice of the Cunt ts of Law ? Esti REY.—Ai 4111 individual, was indisposed to troubled the Learned ittgl,,,es oa the arbjeet ; ter what ever their opinion might Ise be could never alter hie own, that jostler would not be done, unless the Counsel for her Majesty were allowed to proceed with the evidence which they hail tendered, to prove that the whine case against her Majesty was bottomeg. in a system of conspiracy, for the sultot minim of perjury! (Cries of hear, bees'—from all sides of the Mouse ;I—) It' in any case, whether on the part of the prosecution or defence, a suspicion is excited that an alleitort has been made. by coins; g w itnesses, to impose it false case on the Court, whenever that stisuitilte at i,es it is the duty of the Court 10 institute no immediate enquiry into the fact.— Their Lot tislops acre bound to do so uow, unless they wished to shut their ems to all evidence w hick alight by peotibility have tee tact of enablislitog that the w hole of the case rig; her Majesty was a tool conspiracy, restiug On false and sithot tied tes.inituty, to deprive a lis4,h am! Illustrious iudisidu.d of those possessions, 011;1011I a h.eti ail toot life Call give is of 110 value. 'f lie evidence offered to prove the existence sofa conspiracy, sans rain of a ss raw4er natio e tin's tit .t tendered veSierdily, .eliteit he (ilk Noble Lail) fret persuaded ought 111 have begat receised. Lotdsaips otguld neither do justtue to their uae Clair:lo4:r, nor aloud 01111 1102 1141/11c to the situation they must wish to stall:, if they re."used to enquire into the Coll , llll' icy ; 0411411.11 14111e1 v 101,101114 jU•Ili ell.lllll tint I 1; 01)1.101,11. '1111.! Lail of LIV f.lt POOL was iu fas our of 11111'114 the opinion of tit • .lutt,es oil tills punt(. Land IN t. sant, I t ,. at tempt or to coriapt relUtesses was miestimuled tlllnC itstecs u. ju. isaired.•tige ithd were their Li.ftlsllipfs with 1114' 1,160111.•.1,4;. ill- I.. c t, morel the mat. r In rest het e If the LottilSei for her M. .jest v pi (Byrd var iiiii 5 acts .ir who. eat ton Ili . 0, a arses, 1111. V were oleo. Lordships know 'sheltie. tie asitucs,n already e4.011i11 , 11 11:011411 liven p , lo.ofed by these means. It was the dues of the L.tus I for the ticleuce to loon,: hum our.' evatene• 10 prove this conspiracy 4 aid it wits tile duty of their Lord ships, as he conceived, to hear that es 'thence and der:oda 11001111. Il 11'119 pruVrlllhat 101 4,;e11( of the NI dui' C u m. mission ollered to bribe a stogie person to give evidence asaing the Qaten i lhis siuele pruOitit the conspiracy tainted she w ..., .. ..... - ........... Th: L ql of LAUDERDALE: objected to the course ad. viscd by tae Noble Lord ((trey), as co taint) tending to v to. late Ike rules of rvidrnee, which regarded the high. st mil the lint est equally. The agriit.y at V i imi c;irt i hail never been proved. As far as COI. Itrow is could be con, , ,leteil as collect Red iii aetiii.. for the case, that person miAitt be looked upon as tit. , aeleitt of the Colonel at tile h a te the Einarersa- I took ;dare, but lie hail no(hioA In do with the ageoti•y it hich it II ..I hero tOund liccei,ar) le euo.tiiiiie, null it view to inquiry. lii tact the wily ony th .t pre:wilted ttselt of coining at the Ludt, was by a holi.ic by the /tiles of Ihe nowt'. bclu iv . and deciding 'you legal didicihties, with the Learned Jiicies. Lail ItOSSLYN said, that the rote, of evidence c , tablished in :ac Cron is lielow, or•re re& tandy stiniti•d its t!le !rest ' 11118 15 14 at min; at tae trial', iit the cab... %latch gene...illy . T . • UCCIII t ft.'. r i„ Earl ttlaPiV EN Olt was in (atom- of lite tine the questirme, . .r,t ` ) I"1,1t• Jil.li,,c• • 'ratio.; it t.. .•e .......ta..r.is tleii•riai..e.i *hat : . 1 : . '...'i ' i•ttl•ct th,it "pillion ought to it use on Cit. llotis,.. Ile emits:l4 •• • . '. this ip l a i tionay of isltsei S 'Ili:, that tiimilli he cot.ld nut s• •. st., . s i ll y m oi l (Sas ma de at 10 i ' .•c farts of the ear., he had co vivid,' iiiiiile ti l l his n. 1410 dial the mode of too r•ediog t ; ;Lai stall tutu, alit' that it u Lo. u,e i ll % A iwa wt. flush /.. A r,.„1,1 wii be iiivari lilt botin.l lit st. let cult's. It hail bkfrit 4 .o 1 . 1 • ti,ite.l, w byit its nut V ilitsicuili Itims..!feali. 4nu all CYttli y...i, lit iijk, TA.' (11111,; %Sas Idylls:tail.. 1[1'4.. w is :li,. civriti i ii ti, ~, e.it ft• .. •' . e l;" ii.t.iii ..te I, it was iiiiiie”iblv licit her N1aj..4% . 9 C rout ana. I Ea • .i.,.; ,It• Scutt.. tt 10 C4llllllll MI It Witil.'ss. 144.111114tict tuns .6..1y to ....._... he Kitt it il MAW VIVI *owls , of examination, "s 111:4. .111.11 . • . bad b.en )rstisday inteirwoittu 1 and suit.. lb.'. I...twilit'