The Statesman. — London, England, 1814-05-24 00:00:00

ed, he should not hale hj.wird to it, hut that u Cmvernment ilveleiteleti to a right to detain them, he Phould hung au action to bee whe th er they had any right to take them at all. The other effects which bad been detained were a disk, a telescope,' and other things, n hie!' could be of no use to him its pri. son. The Right Honourable rtnicluded by obsers. ing, that under the circumstances of the case he thought it did not call for the interference of the noose. • Mr..A.BERCROMBT atought it en erre . Heave ! s‘sumptirm, that because Parliament had iisteiantnd • the Executive with power by the Alien Act,. that therefore there could be no complaints of an abuse of it. Though he had no sympathy for Mr. de Be. • reoger as no ittrlkicl-ual, he thought there had 0(4' 13 1 .• heels proceedings under the Alien Act vexatiOss and p, mid n birb amounted to a denial of Pith • lice. All cases of niptessimt under this Act were' • 'peculiarly wnt thy Al the atfelitioll of the House, as • they ttli g t t. nt thy expiration of the Act, he callisd on • fur its retieunl. Tke only object of the Legislaturt ' in the Alien Act was to subject aliens to a stricter police than any other individuals, and to authorise. their detention in case of danger to the State. With. oat such rfiruger detention was illegal, and oven ad: nbitliop, he 113% by no means disposed to allow)1 that in contradiction or transgression of tho worts of the Allen Act, the "papers of aliens might be seined, yet 'Neil tleiretion could nut he legal, unitise they': tonlrlincti.u.ut ter rinugerous to the State. Ott' this' 7 d/kelpie it-was hardly possible that De Berengeror' papers cuuld legally hue been detained, as' it eras hard, le say where any one could be found abroad willing to do this nation mischief.—[flenr n The Government, he thought, ought to satisfy the House and the country that there were good grounds for the course which they had pursued to this in. stance, as there were so many arcamstestees of sal. picion attending it. Mr. BATHURST explained that the ' whore was on the general authority of OS ref ' State. • ..,„ Mr. C. SMITH said he had "'liked fir. delle'ren ger in Netvgate, sad found him eery well situated and well 'satisfied. Sir S. ROMILLY °been ed ) that the Alien Ace pasted-at a time when lt was apprehended that nn. tires of France were spreading dangerous principles in the country. Under this Act foreigners had been sent out of the country on private and sometimes on anonymous information. Bet great as had been the abuses of this law, was it imagined at the time of its enactment that the private correspondence of any foreigner was to be seized ? lle cohtended there was no such power in the Act, though the practice under the Act barl been most irregular. Mr. P. MOORE thought it appeared from the cir.. catostaitees of the case that Da Berenger had been seized im account of his having been supposed to have hoaxed 4 body of professed hoaxers—the Steck Esclia.ige Committee. Air. Talteyrand, the present Minister of Fruiter, had been subjected to the opera tion of the said Alien Act, with this difference, that the Gorrnimetti by sentliog him out of the country merely a Itlrtled him means to escape front his credi. tows here. He nivbed to know whether a message ha& net been sent to the Mock Exchange Committee as soon as the seek were taken off De Bereoget's trunks, that they mitt enme te• examine them ?- Mr. It. ADINISTGTON replied is the negative. T. did not know that the trunks had been unsealed et nu. Mr. C. WYNNE thought that a Secret Committee •ould not be a good place to try whether the Alien Act bad been transgressed in the case before the HOUSO: a Court of Law would be preferable for try. tug the question. He also conceived, if the seizure of the papers, Asc. were illegal, yet that it was pro. per to employ them in a court of justice, as a man was once tried for fbrgery on proofs which had been Obtained by robbery. Ile had, however, much doubt on the subject, from which the Hight Hon. Gentle man (4- :!athurat), might relieve him if he could MVP, ...ot a disclosure of the grounds of De Beren. ger's apprehension to a Secret Committle would be injurinuc. Mr. BATuvRsT answered, that he could not rest his opposition to the motion on such a ground. Mr. WORTLEY thought, that after the ample declaration of his Majesty's Ministers, the House were bound in candour to desist from further en- - Sir J. NEWPORlT:observed, that from the np pointment of the Committee to encpaire into Col rille's case, three years ago, no inconvenience had arisen. dis Majesty's Ministers, therefore, if they were conscious of their own rectit u de, ought to have satisfied the House in this case, in which it was more than suspected that the Alien Act had been transgressed. •It was too much to trust implicitly a power so liable to abuse as that of the Alien Act, to any body of men. Mr. WILBERFORCE expressed his opinion, thnt if there were no coincidence between the arrest of the Petitioner, and the offence respecting the Stock Exchange, no notice would have been taken of that arrest; and from the reputation of the No ble Lord at the head of the Home Department, he could not think it justitinble to impeach the exercise of his Lordship's discretion in this transaction. He therefore did not feel It necessary to appoint the pro posed Contadttets Mr. BARIIAM declared, that' although he felt no sympathy for Mr. de Berenger,..yet aware that if the violation of the law and personal liberty were col 'Eitel, with regard to the worst mast in society, the precedent might be acted upon towards the very best, he thought it his duty to vote for the motion. By the opponents of the motion an apprehension was stated that public inconvenience might result from the appointment of the proposed Committee, but it appeared that in the only instance quoted of a similar Committee, no inconvenience whatever had occurred; therefore the apprehension expressed was not warranted by any experience. He concluded with expressing his astonishment at the professed in ability of the Right Hon. Gentleman . (Mr. Adding ton) to answer the questions put to him respecting the nature of the communications between the Se cretary of Stitte and the Committee of the Stock Eschange, as the Right Hon. Gentleman ought not to be ignorant of the traniartiona of the office with which he was officially connected. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL vindicated hitn- i ll I E VAT ES. •:r - self from the charge of eadeavoering to mislead, by the statements which he had made on a former dis cussion of this subject, or that he had attempted, as -was itiskieated, to imam/ the art e? a atoning law• yer upon plain country Magistratis I for •' : vehat .he had said he was fully prepared to justify... U. de- Ilia!, upon the high authority of the- seiretary .of Stair., that the warrant of thit Officer against the Petitioner was lent upon false pretences to aid ( We ''prosecution of the Stock Exchange. Indeed, the character of the Secretaiy of State would be a suffi cient answer to any such cha rge — so much as to tha arrest and detention of the Petitionqr.. Then, as to the detention of the paper, of the Petitioner, or 1 their delivery to the Stock Exchange Committee, be, maintained that the Secretary of State, or any other public Officer, was entitled to make a similar use All . any papers in his possession, to further the ends oti public justice; nay, that a Public Officer was In' day bound to make that use of such documents; however he might have become possessed of them..— To show that this doctrine was sanctioned by the practice of the law, the Learned Gentleman quoted the case of Crossley, etready referred to, .and also that of Paynter v. Brookes, which occurred at the Bedford Assizes. In this case the Defendant pro. duced a receipt, - which. purported to be a receipt in full for the principal and interest of the Plaintiff's demand, but upon ezamioation it tarred out to be a receipt only for the. interest.--The Jury found a 'verdict accordingly, and the Defendant required the receipt to be given up to him ; but no, said tbe Court, and the "DeVandaitt. was . Committed one charge j et, forgery, of whk.h.citarge he was acquitted, termite the evidence was incomplete. . He (the Hon.,Cien.: Almon), however, quoted tile case to demonstrate that documentary evidence, .by whatever means ob tained, could be legally used to promote-the admi •nistration of public justice : and hence he argued that the papers found in the peeseasion of the Peti tioner were Irgally applied, . notwithstanding the ob. jections of the Hon. Mover. • Mr. HORNELL observedi that the pale cite!! by the Learned Attorney-General refeired to charges,K . felony, 'and not to tiiiitdemeanour, and therecott were not applicable to the subject under distalsion. The subject be could not, as he before sild,,beishaie to consider of peculiar importance, and he trusted that whatever might' • the mote et ? ' It night s , this the affair under discussion Involved, lo (pet mystery, not entirely prevent. T' and deserving of investigation. had said, that if the House MrAl. ADDINGTON recollected tiro comma. mitten, they would be nicatieqs which the Stock Exchange Committee - had wrong. He surely forget had with the Secretary of State's thrice ; the first, • tided upon that subject which the ,Chairovan of that Committee requested Honourable Member had moved. for a Con - imittee, that certain - papers found in the possession of the and the motion was negatived by a majority of two Petitioner should be detained, with a view to the to one. lie apprehended the Right H onoura b le f r inads-of -justice. to which an answer was returned Gentleman woutcl not meet with better success w ere in the alfirmetive. The second, requesting the Se. he to try the question. He (Mr. Pontottby) obj ect . cretary of,State to undertake the prosecution of ed to the clause upon two grounds; first, because it the Petitioner, to which the answer was hi the no. was an incumbratice upon, and a contradiction t o gative. • that free trade for which the Gill provided ; and se. Mr. C, GRANT and Lord MILTON mutually condty, because it exposed those' who exercised the ezpleined. powers of Government to• a perpetual solicitati o n Mr. WHITBREAD• replied with his accustomed fro% those who were interested in the Corn trade.-- force., He ridiculed the idea that the delusion attri- They knew how easy it was for great capitalists to bated to the Petitioner, could have produced atm_ unite With a view to embarrilis and even intimidate disastrous effect,upon the proceedings of the Confe4an 4,,dmittistration. With regard to the other sug. deracy on the Continent, and animadverted with pe- :gestion ciint had been tbrown out, to fix the price culiar point and humour, upon what he called the at which exportation shoeld stop, ha thought it eve n e*tensive itgal learning and oracular authority of more mischievous than the claw itself. No peen the King's Attorney-General, the uracy of whose - could prep ti d t o anticibtre w bat might or might not opinion upon any question of law, the liberality of be the prate! , price for tsopping the exportati on : i t whose sentiments upou any great constitetional might biippee That befori- it reached that price the topic, or thesusceptibility of whose feelings upon any exportation should be sleeked, in. consequrna of appeal to humanity, could never for a moment be information kiwis' - to Government respecting the doubted.; actual stockinbrnd, Or: ,the; preapective The House then divided, when the numbers were, The only true remedy agaiirkezteas 'of expoitstioa At the %him . 92 was in The , wisdom and courair c orthe Executi ve G o . ; . 'Agihat h . . /37 vernment: TO Ministry tt rake the responsibility hemethei, and cominown to Parliament fee inky. They would take are not to pet such a situation witheet a just nem. "(Jarman ATKINS eipressed his rreiet dot shan't* harried through the Ilona in they 1 / 4 4 then doing. ANECL, in reply to the obserwaticht iy Alderman stated, that in the month el rear, a Committee of the whole Hook tously passed a Resolution, sinfiliir in that upon which the present Bill was The charge of precipitation, therefore, very consistently urged against the pro fhe measure. For himself; he bad its the Free Exportation Kilt as thetnest the two with regaad to the' consitmet; for by enlarging the market an engem of sipplv consequedcei of which might be dangerous in the _ .pe . that __ _,..____ ___ ___ _ _ _ ty affair would hereafter be sifted to the bottom; it a ex t rem e. Th e y were now going wildly out of the must take place, and en teettomee 61,siimily amid time when no plea of Mi n isterial responsibility or path, in which they had trod with safety for 400: necessarily decrease the psis" :te tit! . giiiatliinOt of public inconvenience could be , urged .agitiutt the years. It had always been the practice of the Go- the consumer. - disclosure of the reasons upon *lnch the SF, moment to exercise a restraint on the exportation C. MONCK thought. flee' best, security against rest of Mr. de Bereuger is alleged to have WWI .t corn ha particalar• circumstances. In the years ' excess of expcirtation, would Its found in the kit. place. • - • 411100 and 1789, Ods had been done, nt a time when partitive lowness of price in the forties market. ... 1W r. C. GRANT thought the of lierVatine of 010.'44*u 'hi alike. ' The Right Ileiinorable Memher-r-'ll7. ROSE observed, that at . Amsterdam Whet t Learned Gentleman, as to an investigation . of 0* AtireAviad a chides...letter which he himself had sent: trns 10s. a quarter dearer than in our onit niacitei; subject et a future occasion, when,'" itteouvenieer to the Custem-Iteustt,officers at the ; ant-ports, debit.- end that if they would grant him 'it Committee, he could result from it, a su ffici en t argument against fug them ADA/Weyer,' means to ; pre cast the export s . I 'wt., I produce a hundred similar instantes. , . the necessity or propriety of pressing the present tliALALcorti.... .•• Sir C. MONCK replied, that.adniitting the state .. motion. . ''''Sir (10liN NEWPORT, observed, that the same : ms m of the Right Ho n ou r abl e Ge it tl ematt to he cor- The SOLICITOR-GENERAL defended himself objections had, been made, and the same precaution t reck,.it'fild not invalidate lis argument. - It would against the charge of applying any sarcasm to thik proposed ' , when the Core Exportation Bill had been !cost 10s:or 15s. per quarter. freightage, which, with Petitioner. Sarcasm was Slot indeed his habit or his Infreduced in Ireland. ,Brit he had then suggested some port duties and instil-mice, would still render !forte—and were it even so, he should be little dia. (what he (height would ipply equally in the present : -British - Corn dearer than Foreign in the foreign posed to employ it against the obscitre, the unforto- instence) that thobest course would he for the Exe- mar et. nate, or the distressed. In observing on Friday last : eutive Government to Interfere to stop the export. .. r. Alderman ATKINS explained. upon the.suspicious circumstance of demanding the' dojo( corn, In any case of extreme necessity, and • Mr.IVSIIING TON stated, that in France wheat restoration to the Petitioner of identical Bank-notes :aftetrivaedite come td.Paeliament for indemnity.-- , as sotd for 38s. the quarter; and at Riga, Cour found upon him, he w-- misled by confounding tip, S, Before thin method was adopted, and while it was and whentsat 47 3 . __ . .AS._ statements of the Petitke_with the statements - ga - f . fiiitatibe --7- aliscretiois of the 'Privy Council to sus. i ..r. CANNING observed, that tbosigle he con. those by whom It wait stipeastrett, which - hi coo- -.Wild Age_ implias4,....f.sies.lagesifseaseoblbition was • shirred the doom perfectly unnicessary 3 became It ceived rather an excusable mistake. But he had no issued every ivio Or thrfe• years. As to what the • professedle bestow a power which slimily existed, intention tp prejudice the case of the Petitioner, nor lest speaker had -said .of the purity of his motives ; yet, if the adopting it without any amendment would could he apprehend that from the mummer in which in the side or the question which he espoused, he 'be any consolation to the Right Honourable Gentle. justice was administered in this country, any such thought it was, to say theleast, invidious. The mo- i men,sor any, relief to the alarm that had been excited prejudice could possibly occur. But as to the arrest tires of every Gentleman were tb he supposed to be ; out of doors, he should have no o bjection to its in ,of the Petitioner, he had no hesitation ill declaring, , p u bli c , an d th e i r v ie w s equally to the gene- 'cor oration with the 13111. that the Secretary of State would not have done his rat 0 d. . r. J. P. GRANT said, that one powerful reasou duty if he had not ordered that arrest: for, inde. ; r. DAVIS GIDDY wait for restricting the eft. : with him for not agreeing with the duple, was pre. pendently . of any other reasons which might are in- ' portation of corn within certain limits. In a the* 'cisely that which induced the Right Honourable Seemed the conduct of the Secretary of State, and of impending famine he thought it ought not to be [Gentleman (Mr. Canning) to support it, becalm it which it might not be p r oper to disclose, enough ' allowed, and If the Right Honourable Gent. had ! was Perfectly unnecessary. He had another objets had appeared to the world to call for that arrest.— propofied to fix a price above which it ought not to , tion also. The clause would not only produce use The Petitioner had had his licence as an alien en- be exported, his amendment would have had his sup- good effect, but it would produce a very bad . larged in consequence of his public services, and ' port. i It would create fears s in the agriculturist, while the' what was the use made by him of that enlargement ? I en, PORTER, wished to postpone the 3d reading I object of this measure was to give him confidence-. Why, to practise, as it appeared, a base imposture to Thursday neat. i (hear !]--and it would, so far, do away the beneficial upon time publicsin the disguise of a foreign Officer,r"Ms this the question of adjournment was put, I tendency of it altogether. It was the bounden defy and through that disguise to deceive an Admiral its when lof the Executive Government, and it was always in his Majesty's navy—that too at a period when the i Mr. ROSE, rising again to speak, and reverting , its power, to stop the exportation of corn when oc. fete of Europe bung in the balance—when any false to his former argument, was called to order by Mr. ; casion should call for it, and look with perfect eon. statement, particularly of the nature alluded to, Mya.NE. ; fidence to that House for indemnity. The fears en. might have so influenced some brave man's rashness, — Mr. ROSE persisted in speaking, and repeat. tertaiued could be only the result of igionince,rmed or some coward's fear, as to defeat the events which ' ed that the Right Honourable the Chancellor of, he hoped they had been excited• too by ignorant*; had since happily occurred. Thurdid the Petitioner the Exchequer approved so highly of his rider, : but he was sure they had been provoked by very im. appear to have abused the confidence reposed in him ' that he had interlined several parts of it with his • proper means. by his Majesty's Government, and when sought at- owe hand. . . i."111r. WESTERN and Mr. D. GIDDY opposel i ter, in consequence of Ibis imposture, where was he 1 4 '111frIUSIIINGTON felt himself called upon, by the clause. found ? why, at a distant port, upon the point of ' what had fallen from his Right Hon. Friend, to : The gallery was then cleared, but no division took parting from the country, without a passport, which; state, that if the Chancellor of the Exchequer had place; the clause was rejected and the Bill was departure also would have been a violation of the' been present, Mr. Rose's intended clause would Passed. law, and the confidence granted to this alien. Then have met his opposition. Mr. Lushington proceed- -- • APPRENTICES RILL as to the papers found iu the possession of the Peti- ed to argue against the danger of the exportation of ' The House having taken into further consideration tioner, be contended that the Executive Government corn of British growth ander the present Act • as the Report of the Apprentices Bill, on the motion was justified in making use of them, to farther the by the third clause the duty was taken off from of Mr. Serjeant ONSLOW the Bill was ordered to ends of justice with regaid to any other ciminal of- the foreigneorn exported, which would consequently be re-committed on Monday, the sth of June. fence charged upon the Petitioner; and this doctrine be always exported in preference to corn of our own I The etheiOrders of the Day were then disposed he was prepared to justify, whether the offence be gro id o ksi m e twelve oVocklhe House ad'ourned. felony or misdeameener. Indeed, he thought that to LL.PARNELL spoke a few words in reply to . --- ---- -- . i ISLE OP ELBA. . the Secretary of Stale would him -been gefite"4" a Mr. 's objections. 1 gross dereliction of &sky; if he had acted in a differ. r. WESTERN wished that a certain price -'c ent manner. 'Bat he would appeal to the common should be fixed by a clause In the Bill, beyond lnneneretrts or Tin IS!.lt Of East t,—The ricissi sense and common justice of any man, if he were which it shoeld not be allowable to export corn from talks-a human life have conducted the Emperor asked to surrender the papers alluded to, to the Pee the try. .-Nepotteen-into the midst of you, and his choice oeg titioner, who might destroy them, or. to the Stock r. CANNING . contended that such a clause bi to yOut• - ai Sovereign. ( . Eschange Committee, who required them with a view wooled do away the whole object and principle of Ware entering your interior, yo oe nugmeit and to thee prosecution otjustice, tearibidm of the two he the Bill, which was to establish a free exportation of Mil! Menertit addressed ,to me the follesseisiternmili; . • would give them ?—[licee i hernq on the Minislerini corn, and such a clause could only tend to shackle and I isnatan.to communicate theme.* , pen, Intelsat 13eriCher.]—The Learned Gentleman concluded with and restrict it. He should have preferred his Right they are the pledge of your Merit preeparlty';-6 repeating his protest against the idea of wishing in Hon. Friend's rider for empowering the Executive " General, I have sacrifsustAnY rights to the in any degree by his observations to prejudice the case to interfere, but that he thought even such a clause (Crests of my country, and have reeersekto myrelf of the Petitioner upon trial ;.‘ but he felt that no superfluous and unnecessary, as Government might the seveignty and property' of the ihthe of Elba; such prejudice could be reasonably apprehended. At always exercise a discretionary power on the subject. which has been assented to by all the Pit'wers. : * all events, if any prejudice could result to the Peti- After a few words from Mr. Alderman COMBE, so good as to inform the inhabitants of this neir Closer, from this discussion, the fault was with those the (louse divided upon the $d reading of the Bill, state of `things; and of the selection which I hate 'who had pressed the subject into discussion. • when the numbers— . • . , made of their isle for my residence, in onnsideralina Lord MILTON, adverting to the observathneof ,/) Aes 1. .1 / 0--Noes V. , , of the.mildnes• of their manners, amid of their elinitte., the lion . Gentleman (Mr. C. Grant), expressed a - Woe our noB outman Into the trallery, .wee found Tell them, they shall be the eonstant **els of cur wish to know from some one who could givea tans- that Mr. ROSE' had proposed his clause, and most tire!) , interests." factory pledge upon the subject, whether Ministers. --- "Wr. PONSONBY was addressing the Houle re. Obese! these words require no commentary ;they would object to an enquiry as to thetrammeiform at a sporting it: He contended that the Right Hon. fix your destiny. TIM Emperor has formed.* prop r future period, because such a pledge wosakt linsdis- Gentleman (Mr. Rose) being adderee to the princi. judgment of you : it is my duty to rendem: yoU Shit. pose him to press the present motion.-'Par thili pie of a free exportation, now sought to throw a justice, and I willingly do so. pledge he was the more elution", becalm he thought . clogned inamsetbrance epee a nitasure which he could Inhabitants of the Isle of Elba, I lin /bee to •••••11 lit a off th aka le ' port limns* , - n t sinews of lb. Chan. their iodemnil • oilier of the Nechetteer, moved the 3d reading of the in - Corn I.: rtation Bill.' 'sit e r, F, Said, that if in the present thin Alder! '- •of the/ te, the Honourable Baronet proceeded to the measure .' 701 reading of the Bill, it was his intention the nner tl ti to . ider, empowering his fdejesty, by an ' Sir H. PAI I- Or • • to. sustemd at env time the Eipnr of the worth) I. t o t . June last ye r• ARNELL declared it to •be his • had unanime f, 1, • k r :.eteterms weed to the 3d 'reading: ' I principle to . r. - re-stated the object of the chaise , founded: T E he meant to se. He said that it had the cots- could not be I. cerrenee of hi 'Hight Hon. Friend the Chancellor moterstf the e . .of the , F4rhequer. lie besought the house to pause , considered ti ri before they plunged headlong into a measure, the important of The Right Hoe. Gentleman lose were to'''. into a Coo l convinced they were aerip g pt that the House had 4. et the other evening • Au I r. • • ~:. ~:.