The Statesman. — London, England, 1815-02-23 00:00:00

Mr. TIERNEY—" It is assumed, in the first Instance, that the war taxes will produce 6,000,0001." The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER— " If that shall not prove the case, the increase must be effected by other means." Mr. PONSON BY said, that as they were voting tour years taxes instead of one, he hoped it would not be toe intrusive to ask, when the particulars of the peace establishment would be submitted for their oonsideraton ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXeHEQUER declared his intention to take au early opportubity of submltnng it. Sir G. UEATIICOTE enquired, whether it was• meant to apply any pert of the taxes which they were abbot to vain towards the rebuilding or repairing any forts or fortresses in Belgium ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER observed, that 'questiOn was not before the House. The House then' went through the Committee, and the Report was ordered to be received to-mor row. The Committee of Supply was postponed until Friday next. NRWSPNPRit STAMPS. THE. STATESMAN. . Wai not this in other words tel . t. _the; with himself had been so considerable. Consider i ng pation. the namerous Petitions which hed-,Jseen jai& strail WWI, that they must depend on bhp for& r Pot table on this ielkjeitt, _.'app lication to the' Of the - ipoietri .'qbettit bread, lentl 'that it was the Prices at which be . could* not be satis4led iritboitt going int o &rims . r . sole that ,sow jadueed the present app He 'felt that' sotldlog' heil posed,' or lleelt . sititta r' Parlialeent 'to • exclude him ? The case of this . the line of duly which the House ought to pursue, country was that of a country which con. ! or to affect the jetieralzinciEte of this epestion.— ' sumed no!! than , it . grew':, taut 4,lte ,house wa.s 1 In Other cases ofleinmeraii—aiiiiesiiltiinvriveUtrltoftlistitOriiiiiitiittltirs wiili'peopei• enbOttrigeinerifl but that this could I found necessarcl(though,CtettNy le kise principles ; oottlti tMidtleti Ills ihole supply, of domestic po - liCy) to give Merchants the loan of not be done on low prices. The plain meauini of . ; Eieheqeer Bills,sin • order; by such occaslou i t Te.' this Ite.u, that lafesiorlands Ought to be brought into • medy, to break the talrof 'a Sudden flucthafton - of • cultteidon ; and that the sure step to cruse this effect irices : and it seemed taMr. B. that something like this was, to secure previously the profits cif the cultivator. ought to be doneltv the present case for tfie landed , He world not now stop to show what wassef fi ciently interest of the couutry, if that could be done with- ebriouli, that these inferior lands coald sot lest long out injuring its general iuterests o r breakin g too far in their productive state, but proceed to refer lest one in open general principles, which he should be the ,or two historical facts, in illustratiou of his general last to wish to do. After a war of the most utter- principle. In the year 1764, the law interfered, ampled nature. as to sacrifices on the part of the sifter a lapse of nearly' eistyAlve years, during people. and effects on the property of the country, which no material alteration had taken place in the we had returned to a state of peace, which had price of corn. At this time the price of wheat _pas Iraused (as it well might be expected to do) great , 11.75. 4d. ;,in the.year 1769 it had risen to 2.1. 3.4.td. confusion in all the transactions of mankind. Per. Such was, then, the result of this interference for the h'aps none of these consequences were more likely ! purpose of making corn plentiful aud bread cheap. to be expected than the distress of the lauded iate. I From 1769 to the year 1804, the period of the last rest. They were suffering ; and knowing the great' alteration in the Corn I4tws, the price had gradually ' influence they had in Parliament, they came natue I risen to 31. 4s. It Was evident that this progressive rally enough to this House for protection ; and the; rise of prices was to be traced only to the suspension question for the Committee was , whether th e y should 1 4f foreign import. That rise during the four last linfringe every principle by which th e whole ( " stem ! y ears, notwithstanding the immense quantity we had of the country was regulated—derange the whole; been regularly importing, must be attributed to the value of labour, and by a new scale of things Shrew I increasing wants of our army and navy, as well as to the manufacturer into a compefition with foreign I the general increase of our population. This imports. nenkets, which he could not stand, on account of this , don, however, had done no injury td our own cultiva. alteration in the value of labour and price or corn. The i lion and system of Agriculture. On the contrary, our question was, whether the Committee Amalfi give: agriculture had been improving during this interval the landed interest relief, by keeping up the rents and ! in every respect; but the 'fashionable doctrine now value of their laud beyond what they would oa. I was, make yourselves by all means and at auy hazard, turally be. It might be necessary to state what was . independent of foreign supply. He was quite sate ) the present actual systeoi, of which the Proposed al- I that no country which ever weighed with any *We teration was only an extension; it was not a new tioa its own interests, and the principles on which its thing; this would enable the Committee to under., wealth and prosperitydepended much less this countrY, 1 stand the extent to which the Legislature had hitheliii ever yet acted on views so preposterousand absurd.— protected the landed interest at the expence of the . [spear!]—lt was hardly necessary, at this time of consumer, and would be able to form an idea of I day, to state that some countries were peculiarly what they were cal* upon furthex todo. Dr. Adam I spited to the growth of corn, others to the encourage- Smith stated the popuratinn •of Th e country at 14! talent of fisheries, or of mines. Suppose, for instance, millions ; and estimated: the oonaumption of each in- I dust Norway, or Malta, or Holland were to take' it dividual at a quarter of bretuhcorn,littowingae viany I into their heads to be no longer 'dependent on quarters of other corn as the cattle are} beer-and I foreign supplies, and to resolve gravely rather to spirits for drink of men should requ ire. Supposing ` scratch their rocks than eat bread grown in other this estimate were true, he should say that the price ! countries, what must be the consequence to of the quarter of wheat, supposing there was no law I their population ?-.{hear, hear !]--lt was true about it, would he about 481,; for taking the gene- I that Malta . might procure some of the soil of rap average of the pike of corn on the coasts of ! Egypt, and thus by means of a new superficies might France nod Flanders at 405.,. (mid 'lt etas at present I produce grain to a certain extent : but the immediate under that sum ; and England from its geographical ! operation of such a policy must be, not to increase situation would always, supposing there were. no ' food to the level of the population, bat to reduce laws cpon the subject, procure corn from those 1 the population to the quantity of the food.— coasts.or the average price.) and allowing ss. for the . [Hear, hear . I ]—Like the bed of Procrustes, it was traustaishion of it, w.e, had .155.; but 20s. per guar. I not enlarging the bed to the size of the man, but ler were dlready allowell . for thp protection of the• 1 shortening the man to the limits of the bed. Sup lauded interest, tuaking.tbe present price 655. so that ,;posp Scotland were to guide herself by these maxims, 12,500,0001. was now paid by the collo, for the -4. instead of her usual sagacity, give up herself to _ .. r. IV ti [Tat EA moved, ` Ai Thnt there be laid before the ifouse areounis of the Num ber of Stamps issued for Newspapers withia the three months end's/ the tat of May last ; distinguishiog, ns for als it were possible. the Morning from the Evening Papers. and such as w ere pasty from others; thine for toots circulation, and such as were transmitted through the Clerks of the Roads to the totrury.--Also similar returns fur the last three mouths ending the Ist of Febritory." Mr. POLE CAREW hoped the Chancellor of the Eschetlner, instead of proposing a penny on each Piper sent into the country, would substitute an in. creased stamp duty, which would affect the town circulation and that in populous cities, which might otherwise escape the proposed measure. The returns moved for by Mr. Whitbread were ordered. _ CORN LAWS. Mr. ROBINSON moved the Order of the Day for the Committee on the Corn Lsws. He did so for the purpose of referring the Petitions which had been presented to the said Committee, preparatory to the consideration of the general question. Mr. FINLAY said a few words in opposition to this proposition. Mr. GORE LANGTON so decidedly dicap proved of the measure, that he would take the sense of the House against the Speaker's leaving the Chair. The great majority of the country looked with frightful expediency towards the fate of a measure involving the price of the most important article of fend consumed in society. General GASCOIGNE expressed his confidence, that if the sense of the country - were to be spirt taken on the principle of any alteration hi the. Cern Laws, it would be found' directly hostile to it.— Every town, at least in Engloud, ',sold Whim against it as initrioas to tke best interests of the ktngdoce ; but without at. patient objecting to the general priu4ple of the Hill, he would desire cee. lain modifications in the detail, as stated in the, fte. siltation int:rod:sok tut the lion. Gent. (Mr. R.) — lie would, for iustadce, oppose the plan of imports* lion under the warehousing system; for as six weeks only are allowed for, importing from between the Eyler and Garconre, a sufficient supply co uld not be obtained when wanted by the mattefatturing towns in the north of KOgland and hr Scotland. Ile also thought the maximum proposed much too high, and that the steadiness in ;mice, so confidently anticipated would exist rather in the elevation than diminution. lie was aware that some assistance should be afforded to the agricultural classes, but not to the serious in jury of others more numerous. The main body of the people are consumers, not growers of corn, and their interests should be principally considered.— The sense theta of the great majority of the natiou is decidedly hostile to the proposed measure, and on a subject so important as the article of general con sumption, even their prejudices.should be respected. The resent low price of corn has been attributed by many to the , great influx of foreign corn ; hut he would rather conceive it to be occasioned by the sud den transition from war to peace, and the consequent great decrease of demand. lie would wish that a Oleasure of a temporary natitre should leintroduced, and conceived that the Committee should consider the expediency of so doing. M(. ROSE thought a Committee the proper place for Investigating a subject like the present, and feared that the Hon. Gentleman who wished to interrupt its sitting, had mistaken the best mode of consulting the interests of thewountry. Mr. GOKE LANGTON resolved' to persist in taktirg the sense of the House. Mr. Ca lentil, Mr. Protberoe, Mr. Whitbread, Mr. Shaw Lefevre, Mr. Phillips, and Mr. Horner, seve rally expressed their desire to hear a discussion on so important a question, and were concerned that any Gentleman should be willing to interrupt that beat sours. of general information. A disibiou then took place— Ayes, Noes i 57 On our re.admission into the Gallery, we found the Committee sitting, when Mr. ROBINSON expressed bis opinion, that as he understood no intention existed in the llc'use of proposing any amendment to his three first Iles()lo tions, it would he advisable to pass over those ►a. phily, and discuss the more serious oi,es. Mr. BARING said, he did not purpose to offer any amendment to the three first, but would to the foul th. , [The three first Resolutions relating to the im porting, warehousing, and exporting of foreign Corn, and the prohibition of admitting it for home consumption, when Ctirn was under a certain average pike, were then read and agreed tO], The Chairman was then proceeding to read the fourth, when Mr. BARING said, he would have given way to statidin4 and rank of tile Right Hon. Gentleman, hut he had proposed an Amendment upon. one of the Resolutions, and must himself support it ; lie would a!so have given way if the Right Hon. Gentleman bad taken up the cause, u hick he did last year, but hid this year taken no part in the discussion; and I. therefore concluded that he had (conscieuti o isly) altered his opinion. He would further have given way to an abler man, if he had had any idea that tie number of persons of the same way of thinking i fall to its proper value. N,Alsing would better in n ,. trate the absurdity of the opposite reasoning than the circumstance that every estimate of the article o! . j,. hour, as well as every other calculation in defence of the prohibiting price of 80s., proceeded on the sa:i. , position that all expercas were to remain undimi n i s i i . ' t el. Now the plain fact was, that all these espeoc „ rmust come down; and with what witlata could Par. 1 liament legislate on this subject, whilst they were i n igno mime what. the probable.exteat . g this :Li? * Mr: WAli.. este - Of - The w itnesses, was a,lOl what the profit of .the farmer woe-id-he if the hustle! fail (atld of wheat was sold for eight 'Wiliam ; to o 1411 I t 'he replied, as if 'ware of the aleseatty of 'the ''question; without knowing the_ greet object that 'was fished for, that the questlon was sot ,fouadssl in face; but ' supposing ,the lase, the faratei, instead of pcofitieg, must sustain A loss.. Being again 'asked, " would .not the expenses remain the same, although the price of corn should be reduced,;" hi, answer was, " for a short time, but not for any "number of years.'"f his he apprehended was a just and rational answer; some expenses must immedi ately fall, but the price of labour followed most slowly the uatural progression of general causes.— The late of labour, when once fixed, for various reason's, proprietors were not hasty to unsettle._ The poor rates, in fact, were now one of the con. stituenti Of • the wages of the laboaring poor. If the testimony of the ditferent eitite.ses was carefully examines, it would be found that they all agreed in resting the opinion of the necessity of a higher price oft the presumption that all the expeuces were to coutinue the same. The Right Honourable Geat:e. man who hid opened this subject in a very hand. some and satisfactory manner (Mr. R.ohinson) had forgotten to communicate any light en this very ma. terial and interesting branch of it. What, hoverer, bad most excited his surprise, was to lad the Com. esittm themselves gravely stating that rents had nu. thing to do with the price of grain. He should like ' to see any Member of that House, or of the Com. 1 mittee, who would put his name or personal sena i tion to such an avowal. Among the other witnesses l' was one great Scotch farmer, named Brodie, who now paid 60001. a year for a farm, which he for. - tried) , rented fur 20001. This war an advance from 28s. per acre to 51.; and yet it had been said, or at I'least it was a fair inference from what had been said, that if Mr. Brodie were to cease any longer to pay this immense, addition of 40001. per annum, this 1, could not,, by ally possibility affect the price of the grain *iioclaced on his farm.—[lleac, hear !I—The proportion of produce that went in rent had been differently defined, but was supposed generally to be one third on geed,' one-fourth on middling, mat one-fifth on bad landi • heihould, therefore, take the average proportion to he one-fourth. At the proposed saving price of BCts.; 20, therefore, would go to the landlord, 20 to the tenant, and 40 would 'remain its defray miscellaneous charges. Now, it was worthy of oliseivadoti, that some years back the litudirwiter's share was reckoned at ten shillings. At this propor tion he should take it, and es the avowed object of Committee-wet-testicle.. ..,Joto s s p... story. , protection of the landed interest 'on *bread: Corns this kiwi of frilly, what figure would she make in the measure now before -the taking the 'coin ernemined in thirds at isalf this wren- her capacity as a member of this commercial empire? j fit agriculture, and as it was slot proposed, that the tits, or 6,250,0001. we had an aggregate of . —This more southern part of the island was in a farmer should he kept upagainst resuming kisnaturat 18,750,0001. now paid as a tribute by the general great degree in a similar situation ; our climate was ! station by Act of Parliament, he should oat scruple consumers of this country tewarde the support of the , more unfavourable than the climate of the Conti.; to deduct ss. from the profit of the tenant. From landed interest. Ile,should.sot neetenquire how justly ! neat; we were more subject to bad harvests. Ile . 40s. for charges and expences he should take stray this was paid, and only eisbed to draw the alien- presumed that, of course, no Member supported the C 10s• leaving, as a full remuneration to all parties, a Lion of the House to tles, poem' impedance of the 1 Resulutions merely out of enmity to the foreigner, i price of 555. for a quarter of wheat. This was his subject. Ito observed the Right lion. Gentleman !The professed object was to encourage agriculture view, uu the principle that the farmer ought to go (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) disagreed with !at borne, and he now wished to show beyond what back the whole way ; but he was not inclined to him ; but if any Gentleman would fringe any other, limits suds eforts at encouragement must become precipitate his retreat; he was willing that he should scale, he would perceive that he (Mr. B.) had stated useless and mischievous. Ile was not now contest-. stop for the present half-way. Every one knew the it under the mark. The proportion was, therefore, ing for susy particelar sum within whilh the relief different style of living now indulged in by modern 14,000,0001. to The sum total, viz. 32,750,0001. which ,to the corn grower should be extended, whethe r in, and gentlemen farmers. Instead of ate, we now sa► . was paid by the consumers to the growers of corn. 10, or 59. ; but it was necessary to impress on the Port and Maderia on their tables ; their daughters,. His wish was, that this question should be discussed . Committee, that if they now permanently raised the too, instead of milking cows, strummed the karp. k without any inflammatory language; sud he should price of labour,. they did an injury to the country sichord. He was the last man to ohiect tcrthe in not therefore state. that this was so much moneyin which it would not be easy to trace back. If a tem. delgence of lusuries *here they could be enjoyed the pockets of the landed proprietors; fur the porary relief was required, and could be administered. fairly ; but it was not too much to.say,• that radia tion was, wlsether,it weir really necessary to be paid? without mischief to the community, he should' most meet ought not to be called on to support IT it was so necessary, it was part of the generals cheerfully accede to the measure; but he never hear!]—The real question before them wai, ought a. contribution to the prosperity of the country. The would lend his sanctien to the principle that no fo. protecting price of 80s. to be established, in order to number of productive acres in this country was sixty. reign corn ought to he Amide.' till all the heaths of secure the landholder from any reduction of his rents, millions : now the question was, whether a diming... the country had passed under the plough ; and that and the former from any diminution' of his profits? tion of 10s. per acre should be made in t h e value of . unless we. could get cora of home growth, we should The standard of 80s. he should contend, was not land (be included arable and pasture, for the pasture cease to eat it at alit There was one Gentleman, justified by any part of the evidence before the Cent. was affected by the arable), or whether country gee. Mr. Bennet, of Wiltshire, undoubtedly a very re, mittee. Mr. Maxwell and Mr. Crabtree, thought detects would give up 10s. per acre of, their culti.. spectable individual, whose evidence before the Com- .7511., 'Mr. Mann 725., a aut4cient saving price to sated land? Agriculture received a bounty of forty,. mittee it might be useful to edema to.-• This mitre the grower. He had now arrived at the last part or fifty millions, which was given to no other part stated, that he must now cease to hand-hoe his wheat, of his sLatject, and he hoped the House would pardon of the property of the country, and the question I and must, at the present prices, grow it in the corn- him for trespassing so long on their attention. was, w hether it should receive more ? The laws mon style. Here, then, was the point : hand-hoes, —[ilcer, hear !]—What he proposed to do was un already gave the English land proprietors artificially and, probably, hand-rakes, and hereafter watering. doubtedly a deviation from his general principle ; but a greater revenue from, land than was given in any ' pots, might be introduced, and every wheat-field the present actual distress of the agricultural class, it other part of the world, Fiance had a large landed might become Spahr's. The Whole was a question of was impossible to deny. He knew no reason why proprietary, but its yercuue afforded its proprietors price, and if the farmer could get his remuneration, it Parliamentary relief should not be extended to there, no means of quitting their estates ; they lived upon was impossible to say where he would stop iu his im- as well as to any commercial-or colonial body laboer theos as landiceds used. to do here in former times, in provensents. But in the meantime the consumer was ing under a great temporary pressure. With these hospitality. It was only in this country that we saw suffering, and tire country was gradually advancing feelings he had no hesitation in assenting to a higher landlords keying- their property to reside in larger . by the destruction of the consumers to the grand de- protecting price than that now afforded by the law. towns, or go abroad acid spend their money elsewhere. side:view of becoming an exporting country. He What he desired was to convince the farmer that Par time on.Theic owu estates. Hedid not wish i 9 state any their came to an it portaut consideratioo, that of the .liament intended he should resume his former station; thing invidious, but every,Gentleman who had coos. ; consequences which roust result from a prevalent sys- that he was no longer to speculate on uncertain pared this with other cupptries, must have been ' tern of flinging up the pastures, and grubbing op the events, such for instance, as that of a peace, but to struck with.this distinction. In this state things had; woods. The price of animal food was materially in- show him that he had the declared voice of the Legii still •thriven; but they might be carried too far, and volved, and the value of timber, as it affected both latere for his future guidance and instruction. lie the difference ia the price of labour here and abroad .: our navy and manufactures, as well as its effect on should propose that instead of the term BDs. there could not be, iudefinilelyeatended, for there must be our great staple article of wool, all called for the se- should be inserted previously " for a time to be some point at nnielsour martufsctures must sink f ro m rious attention of The Legislature, before they pro-. limited," for the purpose of bringing the question of foreign competitive.. it would be waste of time to j seeded to enact permanent restrictions, the various the present measure, Wires merely temporary, i5l. consider the, whinrsiml. but ingenious theory which consequences and bearings of which required such mediatel vto a decision. Thnse who might not agree appeared from the esideuce before the Lords to have mature deliberation. lie again repeate.!, that he had with him as to the proper' protibitihg price„might been suggested by one who had been in the habit of no objection whatever to the extension of a temporary i yet concur in the justice of this principle. 'Oisegreat making subtle distinctions (Lord Lauderdale). It and moderate relief, to enable the farmer to come objection, iadeed, to the present regulation of that appeared to be so absurd, that it was abandoned by back to his former natural situation, but he must say i price was the great and universal uncertainty of prices the Committee in their Report. The price of labour that the claims set up were at once most exorbitant lin every branch of agrirultural expences. lied the depended upon the means of subsistence; there and most absurd. What had the advocates for this Committee ascertained the effect of our currency and might be,other circumstances which would, affect it, measure. produced to show that the price given them of country banks on the existing. system of agricul , for the moment, but this was the general_reiee' by Purliament in 1801, as a price at which the far. lure? Could the Right lion. Gentleman (the Chan , had.been argue) by an Itoimatable Friend, of his that user could Weird tosrow his corn, uas now become cellor of the Exchequer), with.till his ingenuity, an tbe proposed measure mest pecessarily, reduce the inadequate ? .Wtrat detail of increased expenses had ticipate with any precision the future peration of a price of corn, and (bet if hq wore not sure of this they gone into to justify their present demand ? Was paper currency on rents' end charges I He believed ,consequence, he would nut support it. lie admired the increase in Urn price of horses, which were the not ; and wouftl therefore fast try the point as to the this sentiment, but migh t no eettosset foe, the, ender- product .of some farms, or in the Witness, which de. permanency of the proposed measure ; and :f 115 standing to ; which such reamsui t ed, appeared ;smiled almost entirely on. the .price of labour ? An should succeed inducing the ,Committee tceprefer a (glory. The argument on the other side wAss, thtt Ilorr.lerietel of his had told o story of the quantity of Bill of temporary operations, heehould . have 'no Jul& upleps..thts• proseetieg pare he, raised to 80a. the soot laid down on a piece of arable land, and he might culty in preferring a protecting .price of 7135. to ore foreter : puat throw up, the bustinese,oCreising core..-, have talked of the oil cokes with which agriculturists of 7ti: The, lion. Member coarluded a long amt If foreiguers were to be at akt .aslesitged to tbs, n ow chose to fatten their cattle; 'but where, would argumentative speech, by movre •g the iti seeri Ar o f en' e market, the diie effect would follow that the e ons h e the deplorable evil of leaving the soot to find re- words 66 for a time to be limited," in the tools of growers at home would cease to f e llow their occu• Cher a worse market, or the residuum of oil seed to the Resolution.