The Statesman. — London, England, 1814-11-15 00:00:00

• , TAT g. " r - 7 wt. • 4‘. tide the most . vigi Nut cheeks 4:wo e * th e publi c re.. tem plated ; and if the Chancel ttc •at , Socket after ishetio4llo4 pays Ireland s amount. ven ue. HS felt, indeed, very etron4l7 the great in t . quer did not contriiliit,it, it, we,. hOta3for,piented ed to 40,334,0001. Beyond that w e - wire to add the por tanee of the Sy-stein, bat it shooldb e pot en d er suc h' by many. Against " the' 'Ostitaerie Efia ,lotinner of 1547ths on the Irish Fund!, being 687,0001 e makings' restactigteaas would insure all its besetti without even that Right Honourable' dreiitliinsia"'l4 had tievei in all, 41,081,0001. and leaving a surplus of mbout haaardin`g As public interest. In the present state of even heath . * single whisper, bet*. his lauded corn- 670,0001. to meet- her Peace Establistuaseiv• and., thaacCilin/li from the accumulation of goods in the munication, the public had not at fall advantage,. for.; unperson could she*. him where a farthing lathes - woo ware house' s they occupied above one thousand folio the Bank did "S. make,it immeditely known in the. to be bad. Then what Ives to -become of Ireland 1 , 1 vo l u mes. TbKwai a state of things that could not city. There VA,uttilltitst that the fond" were con.. The day was now at hand, when we most look- at- be sneered to continne. He was prepa re d t o say, siderably affected by tilft idea of a large loan . efore • finances, norwith a view to get throogh I S es si on , that it was his' intention to bring forwa r d a p ro p os '. Christmas. ilnweCii, is had been said, the news . but to the general ekteation of the empire. Ile then Lion for granting's considerable 'extension of indut. that there was to be no loan had spread froM one stated the leading itemaof the income .aod eipendi. gence on the Warehousing Syst em , o f the utility o f friend to another : and those rani had• early means : tore of Ireland, of..w.blah the income vapid amount which be could have no,doubt ; but he must say, that of knowing the contradiction of the report,. had the - , to 4,787,0001. British ;currency, , mgainst which Aria p r eliminary to that, a general winding up of the past 'opportunity of making any sum of money they,ploo l ., to" be set the chirp* and interest on the debt, the, most take place, in order that the new arrangement ed. The public, so he understood, did. l epc List of 481,0001.; the sums for hnspitalsi feu. m a y be made more certain and durable. He had to the fact for two days, during which time great tuo. , 1.64,0001. and other matters. The iconclosions he ask' pardon of the Committee for deviatitig so far , tuitions occurred in the funds. HUtihie all this'. drew &mu the statements of Irish finahces , was, that f r om the subject under consideration, but pressed happen ? llow.came it. that the people' in 'the City 1 for 5,000,0001: of oiproditure, , there luso deficiency as he had been for explanation, he could not have couldgiesiutlf an hour'] credit to -the rumour of aI of income of 508,00Q1. The whole, income 'for avoided taking that course. . loon v after the enormous grants ao recently made Great Britain and Ireland,' • Mr. BARING said, this question was of the highest importance to the merchants of the City of London. The greater part of the Right lion. Gen. tleman's argument rested on the opinions of revenue officers, who naturally bent their views to the bett and speediest means of serving the revenue; no mat. ter for the concerns of the merchants. Thee, were two questions to be asked in the present case : 1. whether it was right7to breakup the Banded Systens b r , Parli e ni e nt t q r opt Ipe i believed„that the Minister, wanted a large sum ? it appgared that the city hod no greet 'cmatilence :shewisdoii of the financiel, arrangements el the Goveitiment: It should have seemed impossible that a new, loan could be or that the Chancell o r o f., the .E.tchequer could ,hams made so fallacious an estimate. But whether he me. ditated a loan or not, it was mow clear that he want. ed alone , People w- -- - i, l'. _ ; :ere wrong i n tl :r fi rs t no ti on , and 2, if it were , what was the - best manlier of doing at to the means, but right in their ideas as to hi% it. What he most complained of was, that in all wanting the money, When he said nine millions ] Ms interviews with the merchants, the Right lion, would he sufficient; the fact was, that ho wanted - Gent. had never so clearly explained his intentions I nineteen. Ile would not, either in the. King's Speech to them as he might have done. lie only said, they or his own, tell, the House why Parliament wolves would be informed of the intentions of Government, sembled„ but be snade.thein feel the reason fOC it.•••••••• and then came out a dry notice that was not under-, He woald not say "it is the cconsetpleece,ef 10.7, wrong, stood. The great majority of merchants who had ;estimate;'' but the.vote to he called forlprosetk the! it goods warehoused never expected that G o v ernmen t ' was f rom no ot h e i cause .- If: he refoied"ldi'ssote on - , would think of breaking op the Bonded System.* It ; that night; be mightlie'teklilte was stopping' the sup was only within two months that it was found , plies. He meaut no such thing; he did not wish to' out Government were in earnest, and on so short i embarrass the necessary operations of the Oestrus. 1 a notice to send out goods at this time of the meat. But why want mosey nom ? • Why were thq i year, they must go under every disadvantage, grants so insufficient. Wa' it' prom respect tplhe, and the measure would produce the most r u i nous con - H ouse t o say " I want m on e y , " an d nothing more, 1 sequences to the mercantile interest. lie thought the without a syllable to say why rhe,la4t sap Ply was not Right Hon. Gentleman had listened with too much enough for all the year, or whitish' *sty aallitimial atteution to the revenue officers, and too little to the , services had been performed which Aestitinded addi merchants, whole interests were so deeply atrooed tional supplies? The Right lion.Gmitlernao thought by this Measure. If the Right lion. Gentleman it enough for them to vote the money, and then gni persisted in his present plan, he should think it his about their business. There were not the same rea r .1 ()sty to move, to refer the subject to a Committee . s on s new as last year when under peculiar circtun-, above. stairs. However, if the intention of the stance s all was gran t et i 'hat was denianded;ois Oil.. Right lion. Gentleman was to have all these matters , tions asked, no veitiarks made ; hut when every one finally settled,. and then' to start afresh, he had no pat his shoulders to the wheel to tmb's Government objection to meet him on that ground, and it would ' to make the meat of the improvell.situation of foreign be the same to him whether it were done by Act of affairs. Now, after peace and the Fejeicitigs for Parliament or in any other way. All lie wished fOr peace, matters were on a different footing. The Mi• was a good Bonded System, the want of which nister might have had mofe money last Session, if he caused great distrust and want of confidence among had only said•tt was necessary • but he concealed the foreigners. lie should therefore at present wait to amount of outstanding demands, and did not take see what system the Right Hon. Gentleman meant to loan enough when he might have done it; for which• propose. he (Nlr. 'l'.) could not thank him, because Int had Mr. PROTIIF.ROE said, the Hon. Gentleman done an injury to the public credit and confidencein who had just sat down had certainly favoured the money transac'ions , by concealment ef Retold wasit" , House with a very lucid account of the Bonded Sys. and net telling them openly their tree ittuation:«.... tem; but he did not think he had treated the Right lie would not vote for a stzpessoix mord thin 's whet , Boa. Gentleman with the utmost condo", . when he the Right Hon. ComtTentan Wool* say waileteeatlety used the expression, that it was the Right lion, for the business of Government.4ll esist•Jjuseeet....- Gentlemen's intention to break up the Bonded Sys. He evidently wanted to shista...them off till next tem. lia*ing seen so mach lately iu the public meeting of Parliament. After he, Itad•get tbe im prints on this subject, he had been rather in es. ney, they tread know when Ito adjournment lips pectatiott of receiving some instructions from his to take p l ace, atisithey then would be dlsatiesalltilf ._ a.s all we had for that object. Where the rest War to ertisse.faom, he did not then expect this Right Hen.' ~Gent. would tell, him : but the •Huuse ought to eon quire and inttitate a Committee on this most.intereet iag state of the finances. Where, then, wthre tiat Minister's resources ? He might have one, perhaps,' in the result 'of his plans, respecting 'the finking Fund. By , that plan he had certainly hitherto saved 1 taxes, but he bad done great mischief by it. He had, heard speak of a bag of 100 millions. to take oat whenever a war commenced : but he believed .no na. tints ever had such a beg. The Mitliteer could not take mere than 30 millions not of his bag. Con trary to the hinniphant language used, we had now got through 238 millions, eaceptiag 30 millions. What would become of the Sinking Fund.? . Had not the story of the bag got into the city ? Then its epe. rations were beginningl •It wai 4,40i11,11/dOll 'Worse than it might have been, had the Right lion. Gent. never been heard of; through what he had taken from it, and what he had abstained from adding to it. At this day there would have been 15 millions instead of 11 millions, ai by his management was the case.— Again, the proportion of the Sinking Fund was only as a 824 part of 100, instead of being a 400 t. The war tales remaining were about 8,400,0001. from which deductions must now be made, and he might take them at six millions and an half; but they could not continue so in peace. One half,. he was Wormed, was as mech as cold be renderectave.ilable of them in peace. Go twills Sinking Fond, and then there would remain a sPtis of Jive millions. He Implored the House to consider, that without any further con tinuance of war, hut laving it oil at once, they , would have more than five millions at disposal to; alert thenesr establishment. Where, then were the resources? He hoped to see on fresh Ihroidi to the Sinking Rand. Porkers- a loan would' he the best mode: but what would he thongiet of a loan In peace ? What else was to be done ? There was the , Pettipetty Tax. He had already stated, that he I considered that as expiring neat 'April ; but the Minister said, that was not se clear;. however, he should not bri , forward his measure till after 'the constituents on the subject ; but they had not even February. 'IC Mli.iebers 'ire* lief there at the mere sent him a single observation on it, nor could he find heck of the Minister; they mestiolnd•hita to consult that in any of the out.ports the merchants viewed Parliament early in jotweary: ~ C vesidemen had more the subject in the same light as those of London , business tads tltisSassioptiren,They had for years past, seemed to do. f The season of. nun for44is troubles and difficulties The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ob. was now gapPily done away: but he would affirm . anted, that what was termed a breaking up of die' that thererlever • vras a period in which so much was Bonding S, stem was, in fact, an. indulgence, though I necessary $o be done concerning out. internal affairs. fie did not find it easy to persuade those who had I The state of our finances required to be etamined waited on him, and who were intent art unlimited minutely, , and probed to the quick ; and not a mo bonding. As to the danger from the rivalry of I ment was to be lost lathe appointment °fa Committee foreign nations, the revenue system of some countries'± to examineandreport upon the situation of our income might be more favourable to greater indulgences, and and expenditure; the result wont(' show, not merely with them, in that particular, we could not corn. I a necessity of economy, but of some new and extra. pete ; but he looked to the general state of our trade ordinary measures to enable us, with a peace peope" rty.tax: He (Sir. T.) thou g ht, on its first to overbalance any partial advantages on the Conti. 'establishment, to face all oar financial difficulties. proposal, and thought still, that it was an unequal sent. From the regulations at Marseilles which he He should take the liberty of stating a little of what and unjustifiable tax ; though there might be *cum had read, be perceived that the restrictions there• he meant. Look at the progress of our army. extra. stances to render it necessary, from the impractica. were stsicter than our's. The Hon. Member hail ordinaries, and it would he,foisud.that in 1810, they hility of resorting to any other that was adequate.— said, that we were forcing teu years' consumption w're taken at 2,750,0001., gni were found short by lle had certainly consented and assisted' in increasing into the inatket or exportation : but this was in or. 627,0001.- This deficiency yeas Made good, anti the it, and he prayed ta' 'dot 1 to forgive him fur it.-- rect, as the fact was, that the effect-of the operation, next-year we gave 3,200,0001, when a deficiency ap- But he felt himself ttlettictt the 'mere bland to see of the order on some of the highest articles under the peered of 2 4 300,0001. That was paid off, and the that faith was kept with the cpantry respecting the excise would only be, for instance, on wines three eetraordinatiea were token at 5,800,0001., but even 1 duration of so grievous* a berthed. It was aloe not weeks'-consumption ; on brandy, the sixtieth part of with that sum 4,000,0001. more were afterwards to be.justified s but on the impossibility of carrying on alyearts; on geueva, the thirtieth part ; and on rum, wanted. Well, then, 9,000,0001. were taken, and the war witboet.R. No Gentleman could argue in the 220th part. That was the extent to which the now 10,000,0001. additional were required. This its favour. Its -Continuation was dangerous :it must operation of the measure would go. I was the progress of the business; and yet the Right promote emigrations, not merely for pleasure or Mr. SHAW said, that the mode of communicating Honourable Gentle Man thought it sufficient to pee education, but • emigrations that would take away that no loan would be reqUired, claimed attention, into the Kines Speech that the revenue was flourish 4 capital. .People might say there was not sufficient with a view to future cases of the same sort. He ing. He. on the contrary, would assert, that it wu Csafety afforded to capital abroad ; but was there had the highest respect for the Governor and Deputy in a most miserable state. A more deliberate false. nothinflo. the temptation of being-saved from the Governor of the Bank of England, and he found no hood was never put into the royal,, Routh, , &au pro.pertx:24.l.ll.e.eakertaingd got iholeyst deign that fault with making the communication public; but to say, that the revenue Was in a flourishink stati.— the hearts of the public were sound, they. energies when it was of such a nature as to affect the funds The question was not whether we collected greater powettskindthatereeretertiaapebleritgreet things; four or five per cent. it ought to be made public as revenues than formerly, but whether they were ado- but if reliance wake honesty _and inturity ot Par. early and as generally as possible. It was worth cleats to the demands, Ten millions, 20 years ago, Rimed - WA,. telen — iiiray, Whailis - astrops CoiitiaT while to consider of some other mode of giving such: might have been adequate, and a proof of flourishing 1 quences might not folfaselould any• meaning a communication publicity, When such consequences times: but the case was not so now. The revenue was be more strongly - expressed the 4 . - th e Actl— followed. Tho u gh. neither . the Right Hon. Gentle- i any thing else than flourishing, for it was not equal to Whatever Gentlemen better acgeainted with the mat. man, nor those with whom he communicated, were' meet the burthens. Re had drawn up a paper, from ter know, he was sure that the, great body of .the to blame, yet the latter might have friends, from which he proceeded tp read a variety orstatements inl people looked to piati as a•Perfod for taking off whom it might octet, out before the public knew it, proof of his assertions. lie had assumed some pre taxes : but If the Property Thu were taken off, he id thus individual advantages might be taken of it. Rises to calculate upon, such as t o suppos e we shoo was well aware, that ether.heavy taxes must-be laid ' , ere was a sort of half official notice in the News.. he at peace in January, and he took his calculatiooki on to make good our deficiencies. The war eapen. Pot ; but this was a spitaise mode, and he hoped; of income and expenditure from January last. He cilium bad necessorily iocreased.otKsystem of taxa ? . • eddies bettor w ould he adopted in future. 1 Iliad, from some, circumstances, expected a great in." boa. Ilts great point wog to ~ , s 1 and to implore the .. 4 Mr. BARING, in explanatiee; approied of the crease, but the returns since - last January were iin .l klowsile took all the difficalites In't-ge . fiee ; not tn , communication to the Rook. • I feet :he should, however, assume an increase of a fiwlisidoTge ingroomy oPittioeiViitit tO think that theito t Mr. TIER,NEY began by ohiervitsg, that as the hundred thousands. In this v ie w the consolidated funk was not an hour to spare itr tonsidering fully %AMU question between Sir G. Price and the Right lion. debt was 38,357,0001., to which was to he added taxes the public might be relieved from, what could. Gentleman did not seem likely to admit of accom- , the average proportion, for England of 231,0001. be added to, if necessary, and what retre.nehments modation, k would most probably oome before the, making a total incomeof 4J,91.,000r0und numbers, could be, effected. If they did not make up .their, House by petition, or in some other way. He had t and no more, unless they ; went on to the 10th of minds to do this, they would deseit . ,rd betray, not, howe v e r , yet g athered f r om the Right Hon.' Oct. last, and added abbot ' 30,0001: That was all. their duty to the country. - " There is nova,"slid"Gentleman's observations, what was the great in the income side of the account. Then there were he, g 4 an end to 'Bonaparte ;-and,* I htipe, an end' convenience of estending the Bonding System ; nor 1 the charges and interest, the 495 , 0001 . , for , the Ea r- to th e enormous p o w er of - F ra nce: pe ace and 'exteto could he see why regulations could not be framed so parer of Germany, the out-standing Exchequer Bale nal security are returned; but Loo affirm, in my as to present abuses. The system, it appeared, was ' about 30 millions, which be should suppose funded place, that unless sirs:examine and probe to the hot- . elsewhere attended with great benefits, On.the sub- 1 at 75 in the 3, per Cents .. the one. per Cent. on the , tom our financial affairs,. the people in a few years jest of the supposed loan, and the communication 1 Sinking rund, the winding up of the war accounts hence- will curse int. for our oeglecroe our duty."— thereon, it appeared to be only necessary- for some I charges of the Consolidated Fond) &c , all which; M which he took at* 20,000,0001. the interest, the In introducing thlr subject at some - Anent, he must Persons to say, that a certain measure was coo trust to the indulgence of the ose. ' Not kuon ins • when an adinorntnent *attic! take !Ate, he hid Ithought it his duty to make those observations, and he should ba ampirrepild, if any one Gentleman was induced to cowskier tile *object seriously. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCH NUElit destined following the Right Ron, Gent. througll the 'leisure details which he had laid before the Hourse v bet whet the proper occasion cane, he war perfectly) prepared to meet him upon etery point ,witichAte tad touched %van in his speech. lYte NOM Hots. Genttemati had Indulged in t lariety of ilyiessising predictions ; but the House would remeteis l iner his former leading., his predictions deliteredi With: as snook -confidence as fhe present, and then judge how , fer*teb prophecies from him were likely to be treriacd.'' oleos', hear!] The time was not i pat come when the House sbOulti consider the extent le which retrenchments should be made,. and the 'elesilisbment to he maintained • in peace. Whets _would he 44,3770001. !that tiestrarrived, he would go la() as extensive and including all branches, and the wh o le "axpendg. .manly- an investigation as was passible, And until ture 40.312,0001. which would. ham , a balance! thew, the Right. Hon. Gentleman mast excus e hi s Mille af 15,0001. and .nothing more. fisi Meat if peatm 1 noticing, minutely, the minute Add iiiiietta were settled on the first of next Janua r y, th ere was 1 contained in his speech. There were w '' few p t oinfs t oat a moment to be lost in providing for our estab. however, which irwa q n ec e ssary for. te,holice. laehnsl4 iment. Whatever it might be, he for the ; It:was supposed by the Right Hon. eittilemak that iireamit decline going into It, but the whole of it :he (the Cuencetler of the Exchequer), in proposing mast be provided.for. Recollect, however, that thi s 1 the last supply l at the close of the li s t S ess i on , _ _ was at' ' led - - - • •••• .7C31M111, had conceal. •Ifsens , the 'House the extent of the public expences.--..klut the House would re• member, that en the 4#st day of meeting in this . Session, lie had stated to fhb: 'House the two branches of public service which had caused some disappointment.. ----The one was - in :the Navy Estimates, owing to the unavoidable delaylir reductions, the exigencies of the American war, and other chows. The second was the army establish.. ment, net from toy enlargement beyond what wits coutemplatea in last Session, but the'slidtlenciess of the demand. This he (the Chancellor of the Exch..' quer) had stated to the House on the fiist night of its meeting. But there was another charge made by . the Right Hon. Gentleman, is charge of a - eery ,sPriout : kind,•ind of much greater magnitude than t he . form'ert;' no less than his havieg put a deliberate falsehood into the mouth of the Sovereign, that the public ievenue was in a flourishing state. This waV ati knit: l 6,llon which he was moat anxious to remove._ the -Right Honourable Gentleman . underiteird • Abolishing state of the revenue to be soisithing wholly different from what it was soppotted to mean in the mind of the 'Prince, or any other person in the kingdom. The expression in the Speech meant nothing more than that the .revenue had increased, a fact indisputably proved by the public acc o unts.. —[Hear, heir, .hear!) —In the Nit year bet two the whole of the revenue was 59,000,0Q01. the last but one near 61,000,0001. and in the hiit 'year it was 63,000,0001. The Right Hon. Gebtteman had shown by a statement of details, that the Consoll. dated Fund and the taxes did not exceed the charge; but let it be remembered,. that it the close of this last American war .the Oonsolidated Fond did not much exceed the interest of the Sinking Fond, It consequence of which' nothing short of ruin' *ens predicted'; "bet under the adminlstration of Mr: Pitt at that period the Sinking•Fuud sons rose,' How 'much anide• favourable was the prexiint eV; tuation of toll coetntyi . The formidable: istreier Freisce,- . and :she: !mediation 'of *Benet:llne l its the ' Right Hon. GentteMani truly stated, are no longer a: source of danger. •But at .tire period when fbeC.;n., !ng recess. But why not ? The question seemed de. solidated Fend role , ender till'adminiatratkin cided. The War Taxes and the Bank Restriction Pitt,' we had the combined thrust' of • Ffisneft. i aisk' were measures to last tilt sit months after peace; NM:' Spain against us on our 7 owii `Menem,* property.tai tilt the end of the present war, and ta;: i had then but the Coniolielated Fund; bit - nevi. ilisitt Rae signature of a definitive. treaty of peace.. Now were 24,000,9001 of war tales. :It **as 'aiiced*by; that mast relate to the war then existing, according the Right Hon. : Gentleman, wiitst &nt scas of the" teriwo Acts of Parliaiitent qn the subject. The fond which was intendid for exigencies of that' Right Honourable ttehtletnan could twit dispute this: public service in time-of peace ? He woold answer, the Acts expressed it, and the *vests 66 end Do that part of it was applied to prevent great leans, longer" were added. If ever the public faith . Wit ; and that now it amounted to 60,000,0001. He. was, pledged, it was pledged distinctly in this case. If however, ready to admit, 'that 'an investigation' the House wereadjeotned before this question came ; should take place in die. entitle Of time, eiss when on, 'where would be the time and opportunity for that time was come lui . shottWbe extremely gled to' the public to petition against the continuance of . the' , have the assistance of the Right ilonqurablicAen-' .sW tleman. With regard to the irtations rm. by, him upon the Property Tax,. he (the Chi licefloe . of the Exchequer)' would altnit; thke the• gyp: pewit*, of the Act of 1/arlistcnent Was rather in favour 'of its expiring 'nest April; bat upon this he begged distinctly 3a dis Claim pledging hi'maelf, as other persons of very high 'audiortty entertained e different opinion: It would' certainly tome under discussion before the sth o( April, and the:Right Nona Gentleman need not be all elatined about thn intended length of' the adjeirement. The necessity of taking into 'consideration the flank Restriction and Mutiny Acts was a sufficient, pledais that the House should meet before that peribd. ' The absence °this Noble Friend (Lord Castlereagh) on busineet• interesting not only. to England, but to The wcirld o, would certainly .riiiidltr an adjournment of sonic length disirable`• but still. he plOged himself th 4 they ihOuld ma rt a reasonable pet . tod: ' ? f ir. TIERNEY asked, 'Whit the Chancellor .4 the.tacheqger Meant by k reasonable period? • " "The'CßANC r EttOtt of thf EXOltNyEß:sstd:s if wailitpoislblp `skate the precise time tic tharamtrient. *- • Sir GEORGE WkItRENDERThen moied s that! a sum oot exceeding 1,21 . 5,090. should belerauterr in supply, for . the pay of 70090'. seamen acid ova.. Mr. porisornity Oiseiveit, it was a question of supply, upon witless eery tentlentin had a right lei tented( upon nii hci era liits. He was' p!irtioularly, sorpriatid telnd that the Right Iron. Genf. had. no `,Hale' eft **hid uPo n 'the repeid of the Property p l its- . r id iv as plain Ai possible; it arts as, otlit ,Iglediki'id Parliament 'conk; glee, and .it Otieteiiir the most gross breacb"el public faith to' ciadd i tie ; Qne most objectionable restore - of this, pkillitkiliet the *kat increasing it by apes- pejst.., IV; 'gate "itletirteori pta t leo to Ministeri. Ti s ii Sif *was 'alittotrent to thk pi Wavle" of our free • Cie.. 'siltation. fie hid. ai4llti . irptif tpr it, nor did lolk hecould its give such a vote l ., Thi acted - Ist :lo width ifiuhiented • man's prhate af.; fair!, appear ed intolerable. 'He would rateir pal 1'51: pet Cent. in anothir *ay than IQI. per cent. an. der Oitato. A ' 4 `the Chancellor of the Esehequee Sias .only ready to give information when asked, he hoped inary would feet it their'iluty ‘ to call on him fur such information. Among the measufes * . -#1