The Statesman. — London, England, 1823-03-01 00:00:00

V . r~-~ . SINKING POND. Mr. MABERLY rose pursuant to notice to submit Re edlutions relative to the Sinking Fusil, and observed, that after the innumerab'e petitions which bad been laid upon the table of the bootee complaining of the. weight of taxation, and of agricultural distress, attil 'praying . for relief, it was with the object of remedying that suffering, and affording that relief that be asked the house to agree to the measure contained in his Resolutions. If he could show that it would have the effect of relieving the people 4t seven millions of taxes, and allow Government to carry on the operations of the country with credit and with honour, unless some extraordinary circumstance took place : and if they did arrive, he still trusted that there would he no objection to support the measure he intended to submit. If any unusual circumstances should arrive, he pledged himself, if his Resolutions were carried, that he was ready not to move upon them until some un derstanding of the energy was arranged, and he would wait e any measure founded upon them until the more im portant question was decided.—(Hear.) His objects then .were, Ist. a reduction of a large portion of taxes. 2111 y, A better appropriation of the public money. 3dly, A ,conciliation of the landed interests. Aud 4thly, To make an efficient Sinking Fund; to make that fund efficient instead of one supported by five millions of taxes taken unfairly, and he thought dishonestly, from the people. In 1798. Mr. Pitt was anxious to support public credit, en I the plan he adopted was that of making the tax on laud perpetual, and then redeeming and selling the Land Tax to the extent of two millions annually.— Ihe preamble of the Act showed that his object was to re I. cm i.e' debt. He contemplived at that time an ex ctss of 400,000/. a year revenue oser the two millions, but he over estimated the return and the value of the _laud. He manifested the strongest proof that his object wee a reduction of the debt, wad upholding public ere alit, as he might have adopted another course, and gone .sea reducing debt gradually and annually. The hon. trendeman here reed the preamble of Mr. Pitt's Bill for the Redemption of the Land Tex, and then continued. Reappeared that Mr. Pitt proposed that the Crown lands *hooka be sold for the pane se of etdeeming 80 millions of debt, but the plan did not realise eligeßroposed Sink ing Fond for that purpose, in coo seiftWw of the high price put on the lam's. In the first instanowiMac pro posed to redeem the land 10 per cent, over the fklire —3l; 6e in the Life Annuities aasto be cecina • for 31. i in land, if the proprietor undertook the r t ption; and in case of his refusal of the preference . 12a. eves the price fixed for a stranger who became the pstreli tser. There were some other advantages added, such as';he power of voting foi a Member of Parlia ment. From this plan was anticipated a gradual pro duce in revenue. Mr. Pitt looked upon that as an effec ewal foundation of a Sinking Fund. He adopted it,— thoegb it might be said there was another sluicing fund In eeisteace at the time, but that was then as delusive and as fraudulent, as it has since turned out to be. The fedi** of the plan was easy enough to conceive—Mr. 'input too high a price on the article for sale. '1 he Consequence was, that up to the year 1801, there were seventeen millions ; from 1801 to 1822, eight millions only redeemed in addition thereto ; and last year there .were but forty come thousand redeemed. In his view of ,the plan, forty one millions of capital would be reduced in seven years. The total expense of managing ;the debt .atneunteil to 4,400,0001. n filch, if calculated for one thousand years, would reach a sum far beyond the whole national debt. lie hail a calculation of it which the house world think ludicrous if he was to read it. The result of the caltulation was, that a sem so laid out would anemia to 136 millions of millions of millions of pounds .sterling. The Si uking Fund, as hitherto manad, was of no use aeall, or 'whittle for any purpose w hatever. Pis colijeet was to make the Act of Parliament effective-- 1p have a real Sinking Fund, and it' he could show any enedety which it could be effected, he would be entitled to ask with what justice could they call on the landed *terra for any sacrifice of property? If it could be merle available to its real objects, could they call on the . public at large at that moment when petition on petition ; arm laid oe the table, or continue taxes upon them? The % Mow would Out expect him to go into all the details of his proposition, but to keep to the general princ i p le ; but • ate. was obliged to go a little into calculation to show that • the measure was practical. He proposed that on the plan of Mr. Pitt 1001.3 per cent. stock should be the .price of 3!, a year in land, always giving a preference of jedemption to the proprie:or of it. li the proprietor di& not choose to redeem the land within six months, a .stranger might then become the purchaser. A par- Asset in the present day would get about 4 per cent. fur hit money, and become the holder of land at a fee farm rent, and el aim a seism upon the land to all intents and benefit asanother landed proprietor. He also proposed ..t.' at the proprietor of the ground should have, fur the space of five years, the option of still claiming it from ; ete stronger no the tranfer of the same amount of stock, aml the payment of 5 per cent. a; sprout to the purchaser. Soh a plan would act as a great indarement to public companies and large capitalists to make investments, as it stimieed them from thecertainty of lass, and the probability of t A profit of 5 per cent. in addition. lie would be further . eivesed to give the purchaser all the advantages that ittieht be fairly admitted, such as the qualification of kill ing game —of being a Magistrate, or a Member of Far b 'event. , These advantages, in his opinion, would make land extremely saleable. Another proposition u as, that if the proprie:or and the stranger both neglected to snake , the purchase, the land should be sold in districts, and . in.portions, by public auction, at a reserved price. That would base tee effect of disposing of it at the real value it' the millet, whatever that might be. As a further indneement, the dividends might be made payable at GP limiltof England, and the transfer of stock registered in theimninsy where the purchase was made, to render the eertificates of it disposable. In fact, the property would in that may lecome immediately transferable. As to the . right of-euting, that might be managed on the system► of sec East India Company, by certain qualifications as to • time, oppose for six or twelve months. The Crown bawds on i that plan would become a saleable and a de sirable article in the market, as the only reason why , they were wet so hitherto was the high price Mr. Pitt God on the-transfer. An available Sinking Fund would he established, and the people might le saved from the pressure-of five millions of taxes for seven years. He contended that his measure would have the effect of be nefiting the public creditor, anti making his security the stronger, inasmuch as security did not depthd upon the ability, but on the willingness te pay. 'fhepubliccreditor -mould further avoid the discussion in that house, which belnareil was approaching, whether he should receive a lees illiert it on his stock.. Such an idea he was ready to deprecate, but it could not Le denied that it was agi.ated to all public meetings convened by the people, who have n e ..s, cut * certain period, thirty-six minims of aueney. W hen the house daily saw people reduced from affluence to beteg:ley, they sere bound to effete' them every means . of rent fin ;heir power.—(Hear.) In order to slow that lie was not seeking to deprive Ministers of the means of poprorting the necesssry establishments, be could show that the revenue• ass likely to increase. lie always said that the revenue could increase. Ile never took any _ather yew of the subject. It was not a fair inference to draw, that if, they took off seven millions of taxes, they . gave up seven millions of revenue. He would admit the effect of so doing as far as six millions of revenue. If the plain was owe adopted, the whole forty-one millions pro . parsed for reduction in seven years Wight be contracted for at a bonus, and admit the reduction of the Four per . Cents, and create an addition to the revenue of 750,000 a year. The reductions proposed by the Chancellor of the &chequer were certainly beneficial, but his plan was VIE STATESMAN. objectionable, as with a diminished revenue, IA the ors ruption and patronage incident to a large one were reH tained. By adoring his (Mr. Moberly's) plan, on the, contrary, a net saving of 350,0001. in the collection of the revenue in this country, and 400,0001. in that of Ireland s would be saved : and if Cue proposition of the Han. Mem ber for Winchester was acted upon, a further saving of 200,0001. might be effected, by amalgamating the Malt and Beer duties. Further reductions might also be made in all the peace establishments of .the country to the amount of 1,000,0001., making the whole redaction near 4,000,0001. Thus, by the operation of his plan, the sum he had stated would be paid off in seven years, and there would be in fact no loss to the revenue. for the total amount lessened at the end of that time would be no More than the compound interest of five millions a-year, snpposing it to be let run on. The Hon. Member con cluded by proposing his Resolutions, (for which see STA TESM Ax of VA. 22.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not think himself called upon to reply to the honourable gentleman's statements at any great length. In various parts of those statements concessions had been made, tending much to weaken the boo. member's own argu ments. In his first resolution, he recognised th.- pro priety of keeping up a Sinking. Fund of five millions an nually, according to the principle laid down by Parlia ment in 1819. Mr. MABERLY here, across the table, signified bis dissent from the admissions to which the Right Hon. Gentleman wished to pledge him. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied, that if his plan did not recognise the principle laid down in 1819, it could not be entertained at all. He was bound by the words of his' resolutions. In the second and third, he admitted the existence of a real surplus of 7,000,0001. at this moment. Without, however, exam ining in detail all the resolutions, the only important point for him to answer to, was the main principle laid down in the three lest resolutions. These resolutions, after stating in detail the principle of the pre.:eding ones, went on to state that the plan which the Hon. Member would propose, " by no means differed in its substance from that which was adopted by the House in the Resolutions of 1819—the essential attrihntes of both plans being the maintenance of public credit by the diminution of debt." This was the upshot of his pro position for a Sinking Fund—namely, that it was analo gous to the one recommended in 1819, and from these mists lie drew a conclusion that 3.000,0001. of taxes should be remitted to the public. N6w, as the sonnd ness of the conclusion was to be judged of by the tenth of the premises, he (the Chancellor) hoped to be able to show, that the twelfth preposition was false; for the plan now submitted was not analogous to the recommendation of 1819, and thus lie overturned the fabric, and showed that the plan was wholly impracticable. The honour able member's argument was, that as the Sinking Fund he now proposed, was the same as that recommended in 1819, it ought therefore to be adopted. If, then, the analo gy which it bore to the principle of that measure was its strongest recommendation, he (the Chancellor) was at a loss to see why the Hon. Member objected to his as suming that :iis plan admitted the necessity of a Sinking Fund of five mullions. Surely, if one Sinking Fund was to be substituted for another, professing to be in principle the same, it was natural to suppose that the reasons which rendered the first necessary, should still be referred to. But the great objection which he (the Chancellor) had to the lion. Member'i Sinking Fond was, that it (lid not at all resemble that recommended by Parliament in 1819, the principle of that and of all other Sinking Funds being a reduction of debt, without any corresponding diminution of meow., For it was ' avowed that the interest seeming palely from the sur plus of eremite over expenditure was not to be imme diately remitted to the people, but was Kobe left at the discretion of Parliament, to be applied either to the fur ther reduction of debt, to meet the exigencies of the State, or to the remission of taxation. • This discretion as to the disposal of the surplus, the Honourable Mew' 'bee's plan would entirely take away. He would force the house to diminish the Revenue by remitting taxes, without at all extinguishing the debt, for according to the. principles laid down in 1819, there could be no beneft-1 alai reduction of debt, if it was attended with a corres /lending diminution of Revenue. He wondered a gentle-' Sian of the Hon. Member's strong mind could hare fat; len into this fallacy. But it was a misnomer to call his measure a redemption of the Land Tax. At least, in point of relief. it could be shown that the Revenue might be greatly 'diminished without affording any relief to the public. He could prove in a moment that it was not a redemption of the Land Tax. Suppose a person had an estate for life chargeable in 2 001 . a-year for hand Tax. Ile wished to redeem that, borrowed a sum of money for the purpose, and transferred stock, the interest of which was equal to 2001., to the account of the Commissioners, and 10 per cent, more; what • was the consequence ? !lad not his heirs a lien for ever upon the estate ; for the tax was per petual, and the only difference was, that the tenant paid the 2001. a-year in future to his heirs instead of the State. Therefore the Revenue might be diminished without any person tieing relieved from paying a farthing. But another essential attribute of a Sinking Fund which thts had not, Was that it should be certain and permanent. In contend ing for permanency, lie did not deny that there might not sometimes happen a crisis in the state of cations in which it would be impolitic to direct the Revenue of the State to the support of such a fund. But these were extreme rases, and upon the general principle, certainty was a necessary attribute of a Sinking Fund. The plan of the hon. Member was palpahly deficient in this respect. He would extinguish forty millions of debt in seven years, but at the end of that time there would be no sinking fund at all. In all his resolutions there was note" word about providing such a fund at the einfof seven note" He left it all to chance, for when be had taken away the taxes which composed it, where were the materials to be foUnd for creating another ? 'The only hope held out ea: the chance of an improvement in the revenue ari sing' from the remission of taxes. He, (the Chancellor) trusted such a hope would not tern out fallacious, but at present he thought a resource of that nature too vision ary to calculate upon. The house might be left to fish in the ocean of Revenue, and it was doubtful whether they drew a whale or a herring—(a laugh)—Then, un less lie was wrong in the idea which lie had formed of the elemental principles of a Sinking Fund, he was warranted in saying that the proposition was not only' not the same as that laid down in 1819, but that it was directly reverse.—(hear, hear, hear.) —The basis of his argument thus fai'ing, the lion. Member's conclusion was untenable, and there was no ground whatever for the two subsequent resolutions. Bur even if be was cor rect in this par.icular, it was doubtful wh• thee the house should adopt the bun. member's suggestion for raising mo ney by the means lie had suggested. He stated that it was material to afford greater facilities to the operation of this Act, assuming that the only obstacle to the success of the immure, were the onerous conditions imposed upon those wbo were disposal to redeem the tax. It 'eas certainly tree dist a smaller portion of this tax was,] in fact, redeemed, than was tlllealated upon when the measure is as proposed. But then it was material to look at the eircumstancee under which the proposition was first made. These circumstances were of a very peculiar nature, and the country was in a *Road m entirely differ; ent f,oin the present. In the first place, we were in the mitille of a most expensive war, of which no one could see the probable termination. Ministers w..re in the ha bit of making large loans yearly, and upon the most ru inous terms. These terms were aggravated by the state of the Funds, which were very depressed, the 3 per cents heleg to low as 48. The scheme` of raising money by the redemption of this tax, was then broached, not in or der to relieve any particular class, but to raise the funds, and enable Ministers to borrow upon better terms. Upon this principle it was brought forward. But the particu lar in which that time differed from the present was thin the funds were low, and the value of land improving and there was a greater, inducement to advance money upon landed, than funded security. (hear,) —The. case was now reversed—the funds were now in a prosperous state, the 3 per cents having risen from 48 to 73, whilst the land had unfortunately much fallen in value. This might account for the slow progress which had been made in the redemption of this tax. The restrictions imposed were not the only obstacles, and consequently their removal would not. much enhance the succeseof this measure. Besides, private parties derived an advantage from these restrictions which it would be impolitic to dispen.e with. He laid no stress upon this objection, but it was as well to state how the law, as it existed, ap plied to-parties redeeming the Land 'fax. Although by the original Act an option was left with the proprietors of land smith regard to the redemption, yet to make them come to terms, they were afterwards reduced to the disagreeable alternative of buying up the tax, or having a stranger—perhaps a person from 'Change-al ley come over their heads, and subs:itote himself in the room of the State. Now, although it was desirable by thus letting in it stranger to compel the proprietor to come to terms, yet there was no reason whatever why the stranger should have any . peculiar advantages given him. The law seemed to stew the filing in the same light. To effect for the redeemers a sufficient se curity, it was first necessary to make the Land Tax per petual, which before had been voted from year :o year. fben if a stranger was let in upon the same terms with the proprietor, it was imposing upon this la:ter a great burden for an indefinite portion of time. Mr. Pitt fed ing the force of this objection. obviated it by making the price of redemption •20 per cent. to the stranger, whit-Joke landowner could redeem at Rh Thr.. former Act therefore avoided the hardship by not putting the stranger and the landowner on the same footing, which was entirely overlooked by the Hon. Member. Mr. MA BERLY said, that by his plan, the lied-owner had an advantage over the stranger, as an opportunity was afforded him of redeeming, whenever he could raise the money. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER con tended, that this arrangement did not remove the objec tion of allowing the parties to redeem on the same hems. , It did not meet the hardship of the case , that after a stranger bail been. suffered to come in over the land owner's head, this latter might have the privilege of buy ing back by an advance of o per cent. to the stranger. — If it was ihardship to reduce the proprie'or to the ne cessity of redeeming a perpetnal tax, or submit to a stranger being put in his place, that hardship was not re moved by his paying 5 per cent. for getting back his land. But turflike the plan palatable. the bon. gentle man would raise those redeeming the tax to the rank of Magistrates in counties ; and the avowed object of this was to induce monied companies to speculate and dabble in,the public revenue. Such an innovation, however, upon the constitution of the Magistracy, he (the Chan cellor) hoped never to see carried into effect. He hoped never to see persons, entire strangers to the Counties, a nd without foot of, land in them, become members of their Magistracy. For these reasons, then, and principally because the plan was not in principle the same for which it was to be substi.uted, and becuse the de- Steucticia of this basis involved the fate of all the conch elusions, lie should give the motion his decided opposi tion. The Right Hon. gent. concluded by moving the previous question upon all the Resolutions to the 12;11 and an entire negative upon that. ' Captain MABERLY confessed his embarrassment in rising to answer the objections which had been raised to Me motion of his hon. relative. Amid the arguments used by the Right Hon. Gentleman, flowerer, he looked %vain for any substantial objections. The very ground upon which he placed his opposition appeared to bieti Me. Maberly) to furnish the strongest argument for the Motion, It was clear that Mr. Pitt's object was to induce large companies to .• speculate and dabble in the public revenue." to order to raise the funds, and su en able hint to borrow money on more advantageous terms. But Mr. Phi's plan defeated itself by the overweening care he took of the interests of the land proprietor ; fur, -*bat stranger would redeem the Land Tax at 10 per cent. whilst he could have funded security for his money Upon much better terms. The plan assumed that if the 1,239,701/. yearly, %.Isiell was the remainder of the un redeemed Laud 'fax, was sold as he pointed out, the price would redeem forty-two millions of debt in 39 years, I Which was as much as the press tit Sinking Fund could do io seven years of peace, and the five millions which ('composed the Sinking Fund would he saved yea'rly to the public. With regard to the annihilation of the Sinking Fond, the plan Intended only to dispense with it for se-, yen years, but not to abolish it. In the present distressed Istate of the country it might well be dispensed %%lilt for i that period, but it coed be renewed again. And a great advantage which the proposed Sinking Fund would have over all others, was that of its inviolability—SW it Could not be laid hands on by Ministers.-4 Hear.) This was a security which none of the three last Sinking Funds possessed. This Sinking Fund would be of such a nature that Ministers could not raise loans upon it, and Parliament not having the money in their bands would be less disposed to sanction any profligate expenditure. It would then he free from all the objections which had been urged against former Sinking Funds, the existence of which was not to much a subject of complaint, as their being exposed to the inroads of Ministers. It would also strengthen the hands of Government it: their negotiations with Foreign States, as it would show that ibis country had a prospect of being relieved from her embarrassments. As therefore it possessed so many advantages, and that no substantial argnments were urged against it, he trusted that the proposition of his Noble Relative would obtain tile sanction of the House. Mr. RICARDO said, that however much he might feel disposed to concur with part of the propesition of the Honourable Mover, yet he was obliged to say, that it did not appear to him to be a desirable substitute for the Sinking Fund. lie (Mr. 11.) was quite as desirous as his Honourable Friend could be to relieve thenounzry from the heavy debt which pressed upon it ; and though the plan proposed was in sonic ineasnre adapted to ac complish such an end, yet it must be by applying it in a very different way. If he had proposed that time pur chases should have bren so made as to equalize the tax, and that cacti party should purchase on no other ground than that which a mortgagee boson land, then he would have Acquiesced ; but by ttic present plan, which was con siderably encunal-ered, a Receiver-General was to he ap pointed to receive the tax, and, in feet, it was only sub. stiteting one sort of the debt for anotber.—(Hear.) He had raised a new stock to be transferred in the same way as the old, and one tax was put in the place of another. I-he (Mr. IL) had spoken 3.) often on the subject, that the Louse was well aware of his great anxiety to get rid of the debt; and if the Honourable Gentleman had pro posed merely that all classes of persons should be allowed to purchase the Land Tax without the interference of the Government, then a considerable amount of debt would have bren caecelled. One objection of the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Eechever did not appear to flint to possess the weight which the Right Honourable Gen tleman had attributed to it, which was, the great hard ship that a stranger would be enabled to place himself on the seine footing with a proprietor. if the Land 'f ax could thereby be redeemed he should have no objection to this equality. With regard to the Sinkin w g ia l 7 . ll ab n u d ict , ono ; t e t did not perceive that the proposition of his Hon Felted s was totally unconnected with it. Indeed the Chancellor of the Excheyner might say that the plea plan, and that lie was not unwilling to adopt t as a substitute for the Sinking Fund. He himself was very ready to vote a remission of taxes to the meant of th e Sinking Fund, but not for a larger aunt than the Sinking Fund. That amount was never more than the surplus of revenue beyond expenditure. If the Chancel lor of the Exchequer, with the candour which belonged to hir ., were to ask fo r a sum of 5,000,0001. he could ob tain it only by borrowing from the public en the one hand, or taking from the Sinking Fund on the other.—(Hear, hear) The one male Would inirease the debt, the other would diminish the surplus reve nue. He was therefore favourable to a remissi n of taxes to the amount of 5,000,0001: not but what he thought that, by great economy on the part of govern ment, they would allow 7.000,0(x0; but he was afraid that with all their professiona of economy, telianre ciente) could not he plated upon them, to warrant the additional remission of 200,00 m. Ministers told th house they had a surplus us 7,000,00014 and if the house voted a remission of taxes fo that amount, then they would spy they were rot Mound to be more ecose micel than they were at present, because the house had • taken away the whole of their surplus. Although 51r. Pitt, after establishing the Sinking Fund, had, during his life, under the pressure of the war, increased Use debt more than the Sinking Fund paid off, yet in every loan that he made there was always some provision for its payment.—(hear, hear!) No doubt the expences of the war, hail forced hint to borer s more than was re• deemed by the Sinking Fund, ye: a hen peace arrived. the country with' have been in podiession of an efficient Sinking Fund (hear!). If the s3s;etn had been adhered to in peace which the Government pursued during the war, he (Mr. Ricardo) wallet have he:'n the lase to raise his voice against it. In the year 16/3, however, the late Chancellor of the Exchequer had taken away 5,000,0001, annually from the Sinking Fun I (hear) ) This violent measure he acroinpan'ed with the ringular as sertion that he should be able to par oil the debt in a shorter time without the e,000,0601. than with theta (hear.) He accompanied this act of spo'iation with very magnificent promises, none of which had been perforinee. But this was quite a trifle compared n ith some of the subsequent attacks on the Sinking Fund. Instead of providing means for wiping off the interest, it was se fered to increase at a compound ra'e, and then the Chau cellor of the Et:chewier came down and said, though there were 15,000,6001. before, yet throneh my expenesi• cure I leave left a deficiency of 1500,0410 e (4 laugh.) But the Cdancellor of the Exchequer %%odd not dare to come down, year etre year, and take 12 or 15,060,06e1. unless they found a subservient Parliament to upleula Omen (hear, hear.) The Sinking Fund would again go on increasing at compound interest, and after it arrived at 9 or 10,000,0001. some future Chancellor of the Exche quer would have the audacity to appropriate it to his own use (hear, hear.) All Ministers were alike; and if they were to consider the Sinking Fund in the light in which it lead been recently curt-idered, it would be much better for them to set it esideentirely. The object of the Sinking Fund was to pay the debt, and teething else. He would exemplify the nature of the Sinking Fund by a familiar example: Suppose a private individual had All estate of 10001. a-year, and found it necessary to borrow 10,0001. agreeing wita his tretlitres to set a part 500 1 . a-year of his income to pay the debt. Suppose thee thef his steward tens him that if he will consent to live on 4001. a-vear and give bum the other 1001. he would be enabditi, in a mach shorter ee. lad, to pay off the debt. Ile t•onsents, and living on 4001. s-year be pays 6001. to his creditor and his treevard. The first year the she ant pays his creditor the 1001., which leaves the debt 9,91101. and reduces the interest to 4951., but he continues to pay 6001. a-year, and the next year the steward pays 1051.. ard continues in the same proportion from year to year. At the end of a certain number of years half the debt is reduced, %Lich leaves 2501. still anottally to be paid to the creditor and 1001. to the stets ard. The steward for 'erne purpose of his own, with or without the knowledge of his master, borrows the sun) of 7000 L which swallows up the whole of the 3501. per annum that had been ap propriated to pay the interest and diminish the seool. still due of the original debt [hear, hear, hear!). And what is the situation of the borroeer ? tweeted of bring relieved from the debt he is involved to the amount of P 2,0001.-2,0001. more than he orieinelly I•orrowed, ard Lis own Sinking Fund besides [hear, hew, hear I]. The Honourable Member said, in leis conscience he believed that the amount of the debt would not have been nearly so great as at present, if Sir. Pitt bad lived [hear, hear, hear !], because he always piovi•:e4l for expenditure, and at the end of the war mould terve had an efficieet Sinking Fund. He bad begun to despair of ever 'Breit , gate et Sinking Fund, an I therefore was ready he suppert his Honourable Friend if be would limit his motion, for the remission of taxes to fire tnitions; seven was. in his opi- Men, cosiderably beyond the proper mark. Ile hoptil that the present Chancellor of the Exchequer would cmee down and move the repeal of the Resolution which lead been passed with respect to the Sinking Fund last yea.. The course which became hint to pursue as a Statesman was a direct, and not a rounnabout way [hear !]. Mr. BAILING said that he considered the present proposition to be one of the slightest bubbles ever Weer, as far as it was meant as a sulatitnte for the Sinkinglourd. It was the duty of the Government of a great country, as it was of every prudent individual, so to conduct their af fairs that a surplus should be left at the end of time year. In the instance of a Government, hetteser, there wera emergencies to which indivilttals were not liahle—the uncertainties of war and prace, and a variety of unfore seen calls, which rendered it still more necessary that the country should have some surplus to meet them (hear, hear !) As to the plan which bad been proposed to the house, it was not necessary to enter much into details, as its defects had been exposed by the Chancellor of the. Excbetkuer and the Honourable Member for Portarlin,e ton. 'I here was, in fact, no foundation at all few the measure. The proposition to tape away 7,001,0001. reel substitute 1;200,0001. per. annum, was en rite very (ate of it, fallacious. The times lied pissed when the finan cial Weirs were to be managed by conjuring (bear!) The proposition of the lion. Member was just as lean ble as that of putting a man into a quart bottle. The very sight of the tieures welled sufficiently expose tee impracticability of the proposition. At the end of seven years there would be no Sinking Fund at all, and there would be at the last year 100,0001. less of disposable income ('‘ No, no!" from Mr. Mihaly). At least it ap peared so to him. The subj-ct itself Was one of the great est moment, whether the country should have a suree's revenue or a bare revenue, and whether the vet was to be reduced in a time of peaces, which lie thought would materially affect the destinies of the country. In fact, no more important geodes could he considered by that house.—What tee Ho nourable Member offered in contradiction to Mr. Pitt's Sinking Fend • as, that its principle had not been rigidly obserted, and that was with bine a reason for not admieting any surplus at all. If there were a surplus he (Mr. alabcrly) was quite certain some Minister or other would take it away, am! th •refore be ass rewired to take it away himself (hear, and a laugh !). This was like the argument wince, the Frenchman noel to a lady, when he told her that the best !node of avoiding tempts don was to yield to it (a 'neigh). The I,,,itoarshle member was of opinion that the country could have a surplus reienue, but chat i: would not lush:: virioe keep it. But he (Mr. B.) was sure, such were the fin ances of the country, as they had been c!oqueetly C " - - •-7t