The Statesman. — London, England, 1820-10-20 00:00:00

1. MR. DENIS O'BRYEN, 0 „ Readers are aware, that on Tuesday last, an in oaatios was laid before Richard Itirnie, Esq., at the pabGc off ic e, Bow-street, against Mr. Denis O'Brven,; ofel. c ea ren-street, Strand, for publishing a seditious end isearmatory placard or posting-bill. The ground i hich the information was laid, was on the oath of ba h a m of No. 1, Gardener's-row, Westminster, who one , that on a certain night in the month of mout y ear, a gentleman, whom deponent had bees d, dad rerily beliered to be Mr. Denis 0 ; came to his house, and pulled out a bundle ei r i o ted kills, and requested the deponent to post tian ea the walls front Westminster to Smithfield. Th e hilt beaded—" To the non-represented," was one e i ;how he had so posted. It wa s not till yesterday evening, as we were in boa, that the attendance of Jones could be ob hiiej he the purpose of ascertaining the identity d!dt otryen. An opportunity was then afforded t ;,, &resent, by waiting on him at his house in entwine ; and after a personal interview, we Los, that Jones declared that Mr. O'Bryen was not e gentleman wb• employed him. Jones, it appears, to his own account, contrived that one of his eliald follow the gentleman in question, in order r.. iiwever his same and residenc4 ; and harinir, traced f i, so. Craven Street, add seem him ("kr Me k 'so, viler arch riretantstanees as led to tine belief thlt he wet she et-rapier, Jones bad inferred that Mr. tt Bryn, shoot he discovered to be the occupier of the home, had been his employer ; and with that I flimsies, had given the deposition on which the va:rant against Mr. 011ryen had been sought.-- In this state, at present, dues the mystery of these se d.tlous publications remain. The discovery we now c finmuracate, only tarnishes another reason for sup iv)); ! k r that Franklin was the employer of Jones. THE QUEEN. ROUSE OF LORDS.—(Tnts Moamtmc.) Privets were read at the usual hour, and the Peers w-re called over. The defaulters were Lord Clinton,' %;.,roest Arwou, the Earl of Aylesbury, and the Maritimes of Exeter and Cornwall.. Tie Marquis of LA,MIOWNR rose, and moved that EZ.r Lonlships' order for the daily attendance of the chiesses on the present trial should be read. The order was read accordingly by the Clerk of loose. The Marquis of LiNscowNit said it was highly hes rrtant, sat only for the convenience of the House, ttit fat the purpose of public justice, that the rrder is question should be obeyed. An incon mince hod already been occasioned by t;te ass-obedience of the order yesterday, in respect to 6e witness Sacchi. The Queen's Counsel consented tt his saatuination on the express condition of his be ii; then examined, and it appeared he was not forth- . nosiest. In fact, he (the Marquis of L.) understood that It was impossible for Saechi to be forthcoming ; for that he uas not in London. 11'hether that were the case ur no, he trusted their Lordships would take some e 'et tual means to ensure a prompt obedience to its The Earl of LIVERPOOL fully concurred in opinion with the Noble Marquis, that the order t f the House Mould be obeyed, and that obedience.enf ,reed if neces sary. He begged, however, to remind the Noble Marquis that the suggestion fur calling in Sacchi yesterday raw from him (Lord Liverpool). On the Queen's I..unsel consenting to 'Sacchi's re-examination, en quiry ass wade for him, but it appeared be was not nett the house ; and a messenger who was dispatched by his Lordship returned and stated that he was not at home. Sacchi, however, was not out of London as the Noble Marquis supposed, but would he (Lord Li verpool) understood be now forthcoming when neces sary. lie would beg to propose that on the calling in the Unsnarl, they should on both sides be re mithir I of the order of the House, and informed that tie Home would expect to God it obeyed. The Jlarquis of LANIDOWYE explained. He was Ala•: to hear that be had bee■ usisinforuied respecting haechi's absence. The Loan Cnanexu.on said, he understood yester day that the Queen's Counsel objected to the repro decline if Sacchi.—(Cries of no, no.)--it appeared certainly that be had been mistaken ; but upon read ing the newspapers be was never more surprised in its life, than when he said they stated that the Queen's Counsel consented to the proposal. He declared op ium his honour, that he understood at the time the Quern's Counsel objected to the calling in Sacchi ; bat he found he was mistaken. The Earl isf 11.40DitsiDALE attempted to speak, but the cries uf " order" and " call in the Counsel," were so load that his Lordship yielded, after saying a few words Which we could not distinctly hear. Cannel *ere then called in. Ile Lord Chief Justice AnROTT delivered the opi aion of the Judges on the question submitted to them yesterday. His Lordship entered into a full and els horate detail of the practice in the Courts over whisk, himself and his Leained Brethre . fresided, and par' tienlarly explained the rules of evidemee as laid dowel• and adhered to in those Courts. He explained tbilt Ile principal object of those rules Was to protect any witness front being taken by sarptise. for bat rets ina it was that it was established, thatta• oeidevank teak be received contradietery of what bid heels pee tisunly given, with ou t t h at Witness having bees tinetly examined to that particular point; and if ber Lad not been so examined. thee he shield be called Lash. Under all the eircumseasees • of the ease, they, new uf opinion that the ,question nfenbd * them cold nut lie put. . The Loan Cnancit.t.oa ifieti called urset lir. areeghtun to stew, if kif laPa . Pa ce * I skald be called. . • .• • • • • Mr. iiitovenam data, Jae named to whet he , kid yesterday said, vie.: that he tre‘ *Wing to en amine Sacchi if he could he produced at that time ; but he must object to hit being called now. Lord SIDNoUTM informed the House that Such' was on his way to the House yesterday, when the House adjourned. This could be attested by several Members who had met him coming down with Mattle, whom they told that the House had adjourned. The Loan CnaNceLatt.---Am I to understand, Mr. Brougham, that you do not consent to Sacchi's being called ? Mr. BROUGH 3 / 4 ,1 repeated that he could not now con sent to his being The LORD CRANCRLLOR said, it was his duty to ask if it was their Lordships pleasure that this question should be put. For himself he had only to say, that his opinion coincided entirely with the deci sion of the Judges. Earl URET did not wish to consume the time of their Lordships ; but he must beg leave to call to their re collection that there were two grounds on which it was contended, that the question in dispute ought to be put. One ground was on the assumption of agency being established against Sacchl ; and the other was, that it was legitimate to discredit the testimony •f Sacchi, independent of any contradiction, by proving that he had been engaged in corrupt practices. His own opinion was that there was ground sufficient for the admission of the question ; for there was that degree of connection and agency made ont between Sacchi and the Milan Commission that he could anticipate no objection on that score. Earl LivititeooL could not agree with the Nobh Lord that there was any thing in the transaction whieb could establish general agency with regard t. Sarchi. Lord ERSKINE declared that his opinion with res pect to the propriety of putting the question w•as not hanged. He was sorry he could not airree with the opinions that were just delivered. The Queen had been tried by laws not known to the Constitution. That House had already admitted that adolltery was no crime. They had proceeded to degrade her by a Bill of Pains and Penalties. and now when they had set her upon her defence, the) submit to all these restrictions from which the prosecution had been exempted.-- (Hear, hear.) Lord I).vas LET said that on the gnhiert of agency, he wished to say a few word'. lie then mid from the minute", that part of the evidence that referred to that point. Lord MAxerus (the Chancellor of Ireland) the. rose. He thought the rules of evidence were equally'l applicable to one side as to the other. They were' formed as well for the protection of innocence, as the punishment of guilt.—(Hear, bear.}—Anil he thought that the House would not be doing justice if they ex tended them to one side and not to the other.--(Hear, hear.)--But he thought that on a point of such im portance, the House would do well, to assist their judgment by the opinions of the Learned Judges.-.-- (Hear, hear). The Marquis of LANiPOWPIE felt as much respect fur the opinions of those Learned Personages as any man in that House but he never would, while he held a place in that House, refer to their opinion a matter of fast, upon which that House was petent to decide themselves. He thought they would be deviating from that line of conduct, which they al ways had, and he hoped, they alwa:-1 would pursue, if they were to apply to any persons, even the Judges themselves, to know whether agency had been proved, and that was the point before them.—(Hear, hear.) — He should he always ready to submit with deference to the superior knowledge of the Noble and Learned Lord who had preceded him; but in the present in stance, which was a simple question of agency, he thought the House should decide fur theneselves.— (Hear, hear.) The LORD Cus:scat.Lon perfectly agreed with the Noble Lord who bad just sat down, that the present question, which was simply a question of agency, the House was perfectly competent to decide. lie would, therefore, with the permission of the House put the question. Whether the question proposed should them be put. A division being demanded, the Huns, divide' ac cordingly. (In the division there appeared— For putting the question . . Against it 59 137 Majority sgaiust putting the question . On our re.adniissiosi, the Marquis of LINSDOWNE I was about to rise. He had to call their Lordchips at- Iseation to the correspondence which it appeared in mi. dunce bad passed between Mr. Powell, the agent for the prosecution, and Col. Browne. He considered it abso lutely essential for the purposes of justice, that this cor respondence, or at least a part of it, should he laid before the House. It would be in their Lordships recollection that the House had intimated its desire dui the wit nesses who had been examined for the prosecution should be forthcoming at a moment's notice, should their Lord ships require it; sad it appeared in evidence upon their Lordship.' notes, that a highly important witness named Hasteiii had been sent out of the kingdom, tinder the direction and through the instritnientality of the agent for the prosecution. Upon notice of this circum stance, that agent had been called to their Lordships Bar and examined. He admitted that he was aware of their Lordships order, and that he had seat Rastelli out of the kingdom, notwithstanding that order. The sole reason which he had stated to their Lord ships, for having sent the witneis away was, that he wished to quiet the minds of the familict of those persons who were now living in Counts-garden. 'Fbc Noble Marquis then read that ,part of Mr. Powers evidence, in which he had been examined as to the. , motives which induced him to send Rastelli . away. Now, their Lordships having thought proper to exa mine this agent as to such motives, and having If ceived his declaration ea oath of what thee. motlees Were, he would ask, if thou, motives malt sot to be collected from the very best evidence which could be procured, namely, the letters, or extracts from the letters, which he bad sent to Celoael Browne. Having pit inch qoeitions, their Lord-' ships were otpdoobtrolly entitled to call foe letters. He Ousted their Lordships would not be told dip they bad put themselves in a situation „of Isola, put a witness to tkeir bar, sod thereby created an ansabshuitial and imaginary platy. If they were the proeswatiri, and the witneis Was their agent, he srovild ' ask iftiteie meat, during *coarse of evidence, had with ' &awn Esy part which wassmseatialte truth, weed say one a< their iliOrtfeiqips, sot hole& IVO' tltis poseutdimi . of every tittle of is/formation to 64110? 'AtESI ,lii• Ile could see no objection whatever to his motion. Mr. Pow•el had said that his sole motive in midis" the wit ness away was, to make comfortable the relatives of the persons now in this eonntry. If that was his sole uso tire, and he should be sorry to think that Mr. Powel had sworn to that which was not true, then there could be nothing else in this letter; and what could appear in it but a simple confirmation of his statement? And, if the sole cause ofßastelli's not being returned was illness, as he had also stated, them the letters of Colonel Browse would confirm that fact also. Upon thesegroundsheconhl not anticipate any objection to leis motion. He therefore , moved " that Mr. Powel be called to the bar of that House, and ordered to produce that part of his corres pondence with Colonel Browne which related to the sending away the witness Rastelli from this country.' If there should be any objection to bringing the pa pers publicly before the House, they might be re ferred to a Secret Committee. Lord Ltrearoot. said, that in the case of an indl vidualprosecutor and an individual defendant, no tri bunal whatever could call upon the agent for the pro duction of confidential papers. Rut he was ready to admit that the house had considered itself as partaking of a mixed character, and therefore as a matter of strict right the objection did not apply. Ile believed in his conscience, that Hastelli had been sent out of the kingdom without any improper motive, though he admitted there could he but one opinion as to the indiscretion of the proceeding. But it was the first time he hail ever heard that a correspondencepoirely confidential, and written under the full impression that it would be held sacred, should be railed fur, and ex posed to examination. This was his objection to the production of the correspondence; hut it the House , should think it ought to he produced, he trusted it would be examilied before a Secret Committee. Lord Klrftl said that at the commencement of these proceedings, the Noble Earl opposite had, with great appearance of candour, declared his wish that the whole proreedings from beginning to end should he sifted to the bottom. He (Lord king) could not reconcile :hat declaration with the Noble Earl's opposition to the pre. I sent motion. The Qiiren's Counsel had opeuly made a charge of conspiracy. Rastelli was proved to bare been one of the most active agents of the Milan Coin mission; he was charged by the Queen's Counsel as being' a leading member of the conspiracy, and lie had in a most improper manner been removed out of the country I by the agent of their prosecution. He (Lord Kith') I thought this conduct so flagrant, that in his opinion, if a simile, act were done in a cause pending in the Courts below, the Court would nut sutler the agent to continue in his office. Ile could not see what reasonable objec tion the Noble Earl could have to the production of the correspondence. The object of the motion was to discover whether Kasten' had been sent out of the country from a mistaken though not improper mo tire; or whether he had been withdrawn to pre vent the exposure of the conspiracy charged by the Queen's Counsel. If this case differed from other cases in some instances, it differed also very materially in other; for there was no ascertaning with certainty who was the prosecutor. The other flay something like an admission had been made by the Noble Earl on this subject ; which admission he now appeared &ripen.' to retract. Ile should consider the rejection of the pre sent motion an attempt to screen the getter up of this prosecution from an in q uiry, the justice of which won't" he confirmed by that very rejection. The Noble Earl had said,-that neither hr nor his friends had any per. good wishes respecting the result of the present I rise. cution. He (Lord K.) could only say, that if they had not, they possessed nerveL of a firmer texture than were ever possessed by any serif Ministers since the time of the l Abel ; for they hail engaged in measures in which no man had ventured to engs , se since then; and which haul left them exposed to a very serious responsibility. These prorredings had been made a mystery Ivy the subordinate agents, and the Ministers hail ailopied the mystery. Some of these agents were known and some unknown; but it was known that the Hanoverian Minister had been very busy in the business, for lie had examined, engaged and sent over Barbara Krantz. There appeared to be a mystery, a kind of donble machinery, throughout the , whole business; and unless the House accepted the in vitation of the Noble Earl " to probe the business to the bottom,''their Lordshi tea igh-sminding professions shout justice and impartiality, would he ridiculed and held by the public in perfect contempt; and it would he insinn. ated . that they had some improper inducement for shut ting out the inquiry. Lord ELLEN 30R1:40( said, that he had heard nothing to alter a former opinion lie had expressed upon the desire for the production of this evidence. The case less an extraordinary prosecution, and Hod forbid that there should he any concealment at all iii the case. It vas his with, not only that there should be uu con cealment, but that there should be no appearance of concealment. If there a ere any ob,'ection to the poi duction of this correspondence, the objection should have been taken earlier, and the same objection of- fereil, if at all, as well to the examination of the agent himself as to the production of his correspondence. (Hear.) The object of the motion was to see whether Mr. Puwel had spoken the truth ; because he (Lord Ellenbo rough) was anxious that the truth should be discovered and concealment avoided, he should vote for the mo tion I but he thought it would be adviseable that the papers should be referred to a Secret Committee. 'The Earl of Romero was clearly of opinion that there was so ground for the legal objection to the pro ductloe of this correspondence. He should, on this head., refer their Lordships to some authorities, for as to the moral justice of the production, lie should not think of arguing a topic which did not admit of the smallest doubt. After referring to several legal authorities in support of his opinion, the Noble Earl instanced the case of divorce, to which proceeding. the iitssent case was anarogonsi In that case the House would examine not wily the Attorney, but the hatband himself ; and Low 'thee could it be pre tended, that It Was just' to e:ctend that protection to the Agent; Which was withheld from the principei himself. The'Clt flrcmLLno loped, that no • animadversions should be made on the cherasorr ut Mr. Pots-el. He apprehended, that is conunonisense, and tombola jus tice. thilioutso should, in the first inetacce, have or steeled thit thee* letters should hare been prodsteed, before Oily had put any questions open them. They Sow (failed on Mr. Puwef ro put his hood ip his pocket, and rheum evidence to convict himself of perjury. Po' Alt Ott id' the aioninistration of, joatice L he *kiwi hien he' noderstood, that in his opinion, that er eteeding mold •not be sanctioned by .any general principle of justice. . " • The Manprialif loutanowst said, that the Abbe and Lualutota Litedeolso bed jeer sat dowis, exptitesed.li . Irish that ma aniumndeareispessbasid be odds on the character et' Mr. Point • Mir spoke, sabjiat ilettSe correction of dm %Wet hatlotritiatear, thasibefietabh4eitios which 'be Baal ae mak abalaised Beim my sub temaarba. 3 And if the Illusion, of the *Ali and learned Lord were directed to him, he begatml to say, that they were most misplaced. • . The Lord Ciateranensi otabl; that if he had Ann' sett intention, he would have done it in terms that could not be mistaken. let be coedit say, that the opinion he load always entertained of that Kohle and Learned lewd (the Marquis of lattelowne) was, that no Mari was less capable of such conduet. . The Marquis of La venowet said, that having no ob ject in view bnt to elicit the troth i and, as it appeared more couvenient to appoint a Secret CoMmitteon he would alter the motion he had already made, and move that these papers, namely, the correspondence between Col. Browne and Mr. Kwell, should be referred to a Secret C 'tree, sealed up. The LOAD 4:14.44trELL00 Wisheil to make one Mot et . vetion. New, if Mr. Powell had been attorney to a private indiviJiwl, hr would he glad to know horn that intik - Huai womb! approve of such a proceeding Tier Marquis of BUCtitmunabt thought that • that sentiment was quite decisive on that point. The object of this notion was to elicit truth, and that object wroth! not he cal - coed by laying extracts of that eorreepondence before the Committee. lie would net flake upon himseif to direct the Mote, as to the prb- • priety of appointing that Committee at all. The Marquis of LANAI/OWN* certainly intended by his motion, that not only extracts, Mitt the entire of that correspondence should be laid before the Coto. • 'Wiley, as far as related to these proceedings. After a pause of several minutes duration, Lord LaUllitalla LS: rose, and submitted to their • Lordships, that there never was a more extravagant proposition than that now before them. It was contrary to all preeroiret, and calculated to destroy all connexion and confidence between the agent and his principal.--(Hear, conjarud their Lordship to weight well the consequences of esta blishing nosh a precedent, striking at the very root of confi.lential agency. Ile slid not object to t he corres pninlcnce between Mr. Powell and Colonel Bmsrne, rela ting to the mission of Hameln being produced, and ',p reened to a Secret Cott 111 l i tea; but he must beg to be Par ticularly understood as confining his admission to the • correspondence relating to this mission of Itastelb, and ' to that only. For this purpose he should prefer, that Mr. Powell be ordered by that House to lay before a secret • committee, extracts of the correspondence between him and Colonel Browne, rela•ing to the object of hi, sem'. ing R.tatelli out of the reentry. He could not foresee any objection to this tootle of proceeding. if their Lordships thought tit to inquire into this matter in this particular cause, they ought to do it in such a manner that the whole country should not he the sufferers. Lord LaNsnowste thought that what his Noble Friend had stated, was an argument in favour of his first mo tion. His Noble Friend, hrwever, was in error, when he stated that there was no precedent for the motion then hefore the House. Within the last two years, even within the lut year, a preseileot 024 affords ed in another branch of the legislature. The other house of Parliament in Cie case of a breach of privilege ordered that the correspondence between Orady and Mr. Carew Smith should be produced. Ile saw no objection that his Learned Friend cottld have to the 'matte proposed ; for the general way when eon- Ildential correspondence was produced before a secret eontonittee, was that one of the parties in the cu. ae- . peered before that Committee and doubled down sorb parts of the precise matter of the investigation. its Ai- matinee might Mr. Powell act with reference to the Secret Cammittee, so that they might be satisfied that the original documetes relative to the subject wern .proolue• d. He entreved their Lordships nut to die• miss this 'abject lightly—it was one of the highest impor:ance A mystery there was with respect to titis matter ; that myste y might be dispellerj by the !production of the curresi on lence, and he hoprd their Lardships %coedit decide n favour of the :notion be ' fore th em for that pup se. The Bar of Larraeoot. at tted, that the un lerstand ing whit h he hail on the subject of the production of the correspondenre was, that It was the tormelosoest wish of the House that the e.orrespondence relating to the mission of Itaatelli. bettrem Mr. Novell and Colonel Browne should be laid before a Smut Conemittsse of that House. But he distinctly understood ;hot it was those parts of ally correspondence between those two gentlemen relating to that precise matter, that the House . Desired to have laid before them. And if theComesittett were appointed with that understanding, lie cavil not see that there ecedd he any ntemaitY for any thing be yond retracts. made from tie curresamsdenee by Mr. I Powell, being produced. Lord Leen a Au ! e lied their Lordships' attet Coo to , the motion beture tbs m, which was worded in soo;to manner as to 'lenity the production of the whole cor !.respondenee Iwtweett Mr. Powell and Col. Browne. stn . !again repeated his protest-against making aprecedent rtf so dangerous a nature to the interests of society in general. Lord LIIIrRICIC said a few words which were taloa ble below the Par . Lord RZDESD‘t c solid that their Lordships did not mean to abide by the oath of Mr. Powell they ought nor , to have called 'him. ~:. 7 1 ~-.!. : Earl Garr said, that if he thought tbe effect of hie Noble Friend's motion likeiy to prove an act of ggosg injustice, be should not give it his ripped. Set in his opinion, justice could not be obtained without it. In contempt of the order of that House, and in direct defiance of the pledge and assurance of the Noble Esti at the head of his Majesty's Government, Mr. Powell had removed a witness fruit' this country. 2'he Jest of that removal eta neither more nor lee, warding to the words of the Noble and Learned Lord on the id o°l - an injury hi the cause of the fates, "bitty never could be repaired.—(Hear, bear ((f the Wang meant to maintain their character with file public, et Gm highest tribunal in this country for the administration '4 j emits, be won Id ask, was this not a case which 'eight to ht sifted to the hotwat ? Mr. Powell had been eislred, and • ltiseasidaat . ol had been, iv m. so unsatiefacter= be thought it absolutely' necessary that slit should be produced. That they ante "Sabi* and moire was now indispensibls; cud that examl , salsa amid only he made satisfaeteriiy, b sobomjnalle the papers to some delegated asithosity of 'tbat nom. the Noble Lord on the cams beech(lAg. Rei) would are the impropriety of theiedtee had reskintmensled to the Mouse; fee II lb. P. • ware nillernd to snake whit esterantt *lwo iv ,frons. - Igo Letters, it .adds" otos be eopolOmi dos boillinald ip rod see ono moot tn linnesnlintino Antigua,. Such a *arms *De* be It elms • • , loty.• nail aboard. He leas .try S‘s OA Area ea. leo Oar to he any oppositinn r eke 10.110111.' 4, #lO4l/16 IS hops. %het it. would I: 8 =M *kb- eruption. TneSobie girl • • • ms aboadnwot W the original andlnetrAbetigia. 41whiste papers timid be Wassokti airtime Maim if Nastelll si 'Adam •. r• f y , 1 . ~ i I ti 41 a 1 ~~ I