The Statesman. — London, England, 1815-06-15 00:00:00

. _ ST, wneld amount to the sum of 79,968,1121. no Here the Right Hon. Gentleman read illstement of d o ubt a large expenditure; but from• every view Ibis progress which he had' dritw'n op. In 1908' the which he could take of the state of things, and the •war expenditure amounted to 4b millions . ; • in• 1609, prospects that might he entertained, there was no ..telOrnilliours; in 1819, to 46; •In 1811, to 52; in prohability of its pressifig upon us to an equal extent 1812, to 55; in 1813, to 57; in 1814, to 63 ; s aved,, in future years, even should the war continue. In last of all, in 1815, to 72 millions. It was one of the first place, there was no pro - habiliti of our being the mischiefs in which we were now placed, that from obliged to maintain an expmisive naval warfare. It stitiOnerill-condition of our finances, the . deprecia.: wss not unreasonable to perfume that our neval ex.ltion - of our commerce, and the fall of the exchangett, peaces would therefore he - greatly reduced. This our expenditure was constantly increasing;. all des dear, also, we had had to provide fors great exprindi. predictions of reduction brought forward from time 'ere to t rm.!) net; ng our - troops across the Atlantic ,)o time had been uniformly falsified, and he suspected' awl back, which had swelled the expences under the that the predictions that they had now heard from hail of Tracspnrts. The number of seamen in the navy 'the*Chaneellor of the Exchequer would equally fail.' 1,1 been, during the year, in a courseof reduction from It wee troe the Allied Powers were to be paid the 140.000 In 70,140: hut then it should be considered live Millions subsidy in' London, but the state of the th,,t the period of !eduction wairthe period of greatest exchanges would produce such a defaleation, that ev pence in regsrfl to seamen's wages, as erre irs they would probably claim that it should be made x !dell had been accruing for a length of time were in good to them in some other wa• It appeared to . _ Against these Were to be taken the one million and 'eleven- tbonsen4 men which the Noble Lord bad enumerated es being to be furnished by the Allied Powers; and which he-would take for_granted Would be in battle arrarkisiiiist France. t n•fact, the No ble Lord was responsible for thaknumber. then, both .ermies to stand, according to the above sottenitent, the. Wei. ought not peace could possibly beobtained whhout it. France, he was satlstled,*as determined to here a free Cotikitittle'ti. He was satisfied also that Bonaparte was not a• favourite in France; tot they had determined to have him for their General, because be Was etn s ip.ef pre=' eminent military talents. All he. beggedi, therefore, *that Ministers would pause,- and t ndeirtitir to . .ob - w fain peace before a blow was struck-; Because, if ''you refused to do so, you would rouse the whole' Frenth nation against you, they would be slotted tat. man. 'Oust you and your . Allies; mud though you doin such a cause, to put Bonapal but a Constitution free in its•princir by the French. Under Louis the law, no arbitrary taxation, which wi upon them... As to securities for pf had been offered by France; not it be proposed, that ,he did not Whip 41emati himself would think insolent. 'securities were offered, it would* til tbeni. • Mr. TIERNEY explained. The Resnlutions proms& ,b 7. tke ttiß* of 'the EXCHEQUER,' 19 ern . ' CIAWITTI::R OF SiJERI AABVTIINOT moved: ever : the first wait fOr tke grant of 99,0Up1a I .):Oepeitroxtot, which after semeconvervon ;13: , 1,099,9611., were voted for , the 7. - A ppeareu . you, i .."." --- • , asctuiite of .purchase a specie, many case' FAd on the dis hire of the men. From him that the whole of the system of Mr. Pitt, that of might now be -able to obtain reasonable securities, than last year's vote, w.bich was t h e c i r c u mstanco..,f the war in which we were. en- raising as much as possible of the supplies of the year when once the sword was drawn, it might be found •,; v l i Bool. for the tit.irekeeper-General gaged, and from the necessity under which the enemy by way of taxes, while on the otherisand the sinking Tory difficult to do so. But this country, it seemed, 4701. to make 'l.lO defOeitcies fi. Iv void 1,0 placed, of directing all his exertions to the fund enabled the public to borrow on as easy terms as was to be involved in a scene of blolid, and a dread- usher of the Court of . 1 . 1 1 kr urtititenatire of land-armies, he saw no r eason why possible, was entirely deranged. He had drawn up fat expence of treasure, for the purpose of restor. ... sres. 84c.. : um, 13 .. 11 .7 for ' the our seamen might not be r educed to the n umber of a document which showed that in pursuance of this ing the Bourbons,—a most delusive and destrective '''' end 31781. 11s. 64. for .Stig soma 40 or 50.000, soil fi. believed he was n ot fiver aim. plan, the money raised by war taxes exceeded the idea, and which that House should exert themselves yea; fur stationary, repairs,. Sae. guise in supposing that the expences of the navy amount of the loan in 1806 by ft millions, in 1811 by to prevail on Ministers to abandon. We had al.. ,„' ~ wit tuts subject there was ROW might he reduced to four or live millions. Taking seven millions; _but then it 4tOpped and turned direct- ready seen the fatal fallacy of attemriug . to force swum the Chancellor of the Excbesu ti i i, into arrotim, together with the arrears t o the ly the other tray, so that in 1814theamount of thettoan a Government on the people of France aga i nst their tin, lir. _ . ___ Arbuthnot, Mr. C., Wy, . . - amount of 21 millions, whieh he had already stated exceeded the produce of the war taxes by 17 millions; - as baring heavv on this year, he might be allowed and in this year by 17+ millions. The Right Hon. to expert a reduction of 24 or 25 millions in future Gent. also gave another statement .in illustration pert, even supposing, which WPIR tint the inclination of AP encroachments .4 tech had been made on the 'of his belief. that the war should last for a period of Sinking Fund. In 1806 that fund was equal to a length. If, however, contrary to all expectation, 65th of the national debt ; its operation gradually in the war should confines for a series of years, it creased, till at last it became equal to a 44th part. -j. might be asked how we were to go on in future, In 1808, the loan of the year exceided the produce . hearing UP un !er such an immense expenditure. To of the Sinking Fund by only 2,700,0001.; hut its' this he woe' ! reply, that we were not to presume 1814 the Sinking Fund had fallen back to what was' that the Sicking Fund would not afford a resource. its proportion eight years before, 'tamely, only a Ile trusted the. next year, if the war tasted so long, 64th of thO national debt . He illustrated the rapid ! the Sinking Fund might he resorted to, to the progression! of our 10$109, when compared with the ; -amount of 20 millions. Probably, also, the Loan Sinking Fund, by stating, that its 1807, the former of next year would not exceed 20 millions, the charge exceeded the latter by only 2,700,0001., in 1810, by , of which, with some assistance from the 'lnking five millions ; but in 1814, by 29 millions ; and last : Fund, might be met by additional taxation. But still of all, in 1815, by 33 millions. Such being the be would assert, arguing from the experience of the financial condition of the country, he would put it pest, that the spirit and resources of the country, whether we could he justified in scattering our money guided aed regulated by the wisdom of Parliament, in all directions, or in engaging in a war to which would meet any emergency that might occur. [Hear, there was no prosper( of termination. With regard bear!]—The present Loan was unquestionably very to the loan itself, it seemed to him a very fair bar. large, but it was founded on this idea—that the con. gain ; nay, he might think it too liberal, under all test, though requiring extraordinary exertions, eould the circumstances, .did he not know the re probahls be a short one, and that the most effectual sources and intelligence of the parties. Re con. MCKIM of abridging it was by ;putting forth all our gratulated the country on the fairness or the streegth in the first instance. In looking at the terms; but surely it was not a proof of financial ceases of the ear, we must suppose that the present prosperity when we were compelled to borrow such Ruler of France was either celled in by a mutinous a sum when the funds were somewhat under 54.- 1 army, domineering over the people at large, or that The Right Honourable Gentleman ttext adverted to ; he was supported by the general sense of the French the mariner in which the interest was provided for, ' nation. li, the former of theie cases, a :rich he deem. the total amount of which, he said, was 3,600,0001.; sel the mesa probable of the two, the effort would be and he went into a variety of calculations, by ehirh a abort one; but it must necessarily be expensive, •be endeavoured In show, that, according to the inasmuch as it became twee:teary to combine and mode pursued by the Chancellor of the exchequer, ' support the eaertioes made both within and without there noted lie an actual diminution of the Sinking for the destruction of the present Government of Fund to the amount of 900,0001. and altogether a France. Hots far the plan was practicable, he would loss of 5,900,0001. Fie said, that : the Chancellor of not take that nepartuniti of discussing ; bet seeing the Votelvegsser Add told the House there Cie . * no ae: the immense force brought into the field by the Allied preciation of the funds in consequence of this Loan ; Fowers,and also the movements and half.suppressed but he ( sir. T.) insisted there was; and he begged i ; wishes in various parts of France, be was altogether the Committee not to shut their eyes to this, that inclined to believe that the struggle would be short. they were going heck card instead of forward with Supposing, tweeter, France to have deliberately . respect to the National Debt, which was one of the thrown off a peaceful Government, and to have great reasons for the depreciation of the funds, and selected this oar from views of ambition and aggress. which ought to he well weighed by the - Committee,' disement, then this surely would make no difference especially on the commencement of this new w ar , th e as to the necessity of energy in opposite( a Govern. ; end of which nolmay could possibly foresee; hut ' meet inimical to the happiness doll other nations.— ; which, if it went on a very few years, must inevi. The Right Ilan. Gentleman coecluded wife moving, tably ruin the country. With respect to the war lo way of Resolution, that the slim of 36 millions itself, he only knew that the flight Honourable Gen. be raised hi any of annuities. I tleman had declared it was determined to carry it on Mr. TI FA NEY said, that though the present was ; with the greatest vigorir and spirit, and to the utmost ere of the most alarming Budgets ever laid before extent of thedecl aotiorts of the Allies. He begged Parliament, yet he was perfectly reedy to do justice : the Committee would torn their eyes to the difference to the clearness end fairness of the mode in which in the situation of France, which had lately taken the Right Hon. Gentleman had brought it forward. place. Three m. tiths ago, Bonaparte landed in He ens prepared to admit that the surplus of this F. once, and very s ,on afterwards we had seen what Consolidated Fund might be taken at three millions; he must call a mad Declaration issued by the Allies, and that upon the whole the difficulties of tae corm. which had been confirmed by another still more try had beet, fairly anal manfollY met. The Right mad on the 25th of March, in which they stale him lion. Gentleman had endeavoured to give the blouse to be the basest and most treacherous of charac. this consolation—that the whole of the supplies were . ter., an d positively bind themselves not only to not rendered necessary by the expenditure n. this wage war on him, but never to make peace with him. year, by stating that 21 millions; was required tee pay There was one name to this Declaration which he off arrears of former years, and therefore not likely was sorry to see, and which he could not have sop. to recur again. But how long. he woilid ask, had posed would have appeared to it ; but it showed these arrears been a growing ? lie much questioned I only how the wisest and greatest men might be led also whether similar arrears were not in progress at' away by the warmth and enthusiasm of the moment. that moment. So that it was not unreasonable to : Three Declarations, however, had been of infinite expect that he should have to pay similar arrears is service to Bonaparte.—[No, no ! from the Trea future. Why, for instance, was it to he supposed surd Bench I—Did Ministers mean to say, that 80. that the army extraordirearies, whirl , had increased naparte was not in a far better situation now than so prodigiously in the last years of the late war, he was, even some weeks ago, by the meeting of the should cease to accumulate i n the present ? What Champ de Mai, by which he had secured a Legisla. was there to make this war differ from that which tune, one part of which was chosen by the people. lied preceded it ? The sum for the Commissariat was and the other nominated by himself; hut which.both this year taken at about 1,100,0001.; but in the together were enabled, under the Constitution which very same year we were charged with 21- millions of had been warmly received and accepted by the pen. arrears of the Commissariat for preceding years.—' pie, to raise him such supplies as would enable him What reason was there to suppose that the same to carry on the war against all the world. It was evi. thing-would not octet'. again ? Again, there was this dent, therefore, he had made a most rapid progress; year charged only 99,(X)01. for barracks, the differ- for the two Houses seemed determined to receive fa. ence between this and the actual expenditure being vourably, arid to carry into effect all the proposie mote up by the sale of barrack materials: it was tiring made to them on the part of Bonaparte, whom tolerably evident, therefore, that this item would . they had raised to be the head of the Government, not be among the number of those that were reduced and whom they appeared to receive in that character in future years. Grader the head of foreign pay. with the g r eatest enthusiasm. The Noble Lord had remits there was also a sum of 400,0001, stated to he often told the House there were secret murmurs it, arrears to Austria ; a' d it seem,: we had to pay France : very likely there were; and he (Mr. :tussle 200 , 0001. additional for having taken care of Tierney) believed there were secret murmurs in this her ships. So that altogether there was now an ad. country also. Indeed, he did not know in what diiimial cum of these foreign payments to the amount country there were not secret murmurs. Bonaparte,' of about 1.400,0001. now for the first time brought however, had been able in the short time he had be. forward, end of which the House hail not hitherto fore mentioned to form a very strong Government, been let iron the secret. Ile really believed that the consisting of some of the leading and most popular Right. Honourable Gentleman, generally speak.' men in the nation,—persons of the most emineut (a ir% knew nothing of these demands on our ! lents, of the greatest courage,—and the two Chambers finances beforehand, and that he was only made ; (which, with Bonaparte himself, formed the Cnitsti seertainatell with them when it became his office to ' tutina) seemed determined to support him in defend provide for them in the best manner he could.—; ing Fiance from ell foreign attacks. having thus Thee total , ant eu et of the supplies required for the . establisheel the means, by which he would be able to ;ear, namely, 89,728,0001. was a sum calculated to raise the necessary supplies, if he looked to his eager even the most sanguine. It was good to see; army, no one could doubt, who was in his senses, " the way i n w hich th e p ro g r ess of expenditure had ' that it must amount to at least three hundred thou k re d t• up s till it at last rose to 'this portentous amount.' sand men, welt equipped ; and ready for the bide—. will. He was satisfied that we might now have hi:. G ord on, &c. respecting the nx , ; reasonable securities, bot it Might not be the case , Mr. A *ISIYI' ti Nur statedObte after we bad expended the 36 millions borrowed .this I day. • The Noble Lord had on a former night said i lial T d w b e Y n a ty la tusand four hundred gravely that Bonaparte might • turn his attention to I were voted for the improveustut his fleets. He would ask, what then ? ", Why then, ' 9°Uncli ' to be sure, our fleets are superior, and we shall hare I ml m n iire. r AßßUTH NOT staled, that . the best of it." A very pretty pleasing .prospect • truly. TM fact was, that Ministers want and ex - , and the rest was for necessary purchase*, ; lion of she Act of the 46th of the Kiug. mt they would he able to overturn the French Government, which be believed to be fro-1 - Eight hundred stud niuety.seeen / shillings , were voted for prioting the possible; and if the idle scheme were persisted :171 7 18 14,0001 . for improsieg Hof 'Jo, it would be the means of driving the French end 89811. for tembankiog the river nation into en unanimity that would enable : bank, ... in front of the Penitentierphonse 'them to drive all Europe out of France, and I were voted for paymeot of forteigit 'to follow them into thAt own territories as they had , . i services. done before. He knew the Vote of Credit was in tended to enable them to ran headihng into these i thiat il 4ot ilie 9 7 ‘ 4 44 s 4 6o l . f s : r "l i sb i l. ri ngs t : 7 o , ll dreadful measures during the absence of Parliament; I°ll . m i but the Right Hon. Gent. ought to feel no inconsider- ;1,:14g . lihri:4lA employed ßTlNolij a t tirece objected NW illh k tbllrierient. able alarm at the idea of meeting that House, unless I 'he could finish this new war before he had occasion to should il i r c i ‘ res ibr 'i l V i l4 i s F t i h s e si l l o sa ill e 44ll4 , .: d ibelleil . the 1 7 ... , ask it for more money. He thought it necessary to' / for Owl was cheaper ihatnapy altered& make these observations on the close sof the discussion on a Budget which would amount to nearly 90 alit. I [elide in ibtkeriginal baildnigtv be ! Mr. BANKER sakl the piety bed., lions. If Ministers did not endeavour to make peace , al t • GR.ENFELI4 wished k leneer with France now, that nation would be justified in ei . new . silver cotirogi .waa . ,...prepatlng,. waging eternal war with us. We were already hated, present supplied 004 br.lll,depreeial not only by France, but by all Europe, for our over. c . . . bearing pride and insolence.—[Some expression of fr°lrlF:rwit7-p.eilLE sa id. i v . e . m " i niolo • surprise being - 'evinced from the Treasury Boach,] since the. nett/ Mint was built, Iv Mr. T. said he would give an instance of our inso lence, which was the medals which the Noble Lord libai rm i l l i s ho i r mad endr :; xed Th s e w r e o re te .f w ,,:,, ri s had so lavishly dealt out. He the, informed the . Mit? thousand parr Rouse, that this Government had ordered a certain n A n li t i cu : t°l°.. . number of gold medals to be struck, which had been r oi s' A - f..ic " a :ll , ls w b h i le till h uiitg occa c s n i d on r e t r r ri 4 g :) done at a great expence,—for they mere gold, and Memo tgraeted in the best manner,,whiGh were distriheted m FS. - r f . Ait surnivoT old, N ot among the several Powers of Europe. The design applied in greet part to malutainise of the medal. was, on one side, the head of the ' Prince Regent acting for his father, and on the other Mr. PEELE state'', tbar the. sic lately examined by Commissioners, Britannia supporting Europe. The *hole was no doubt, very magnificent io effect, and he understood C°lumbine "1 lifte. 'Agree(' to. Twenty thousand pounds, after that one of the Sovereigns had observed, it was an in- ' were voted to improve _the high roll stance of the greatest modesty he had ever seen or , to Holyhead,and to.itineor Ferry heard of. He wits certain there were many other I causes for our being hated throughout Europe, and Oil the motions of M .PIiKI.E.I , for the Irish Barrack I)enartmets he would consider it a crime if we did not at the present moment endeavour to conciliate France rather , Irish 'Commissariat ;• 50,0001. to the Canal Compauy ; and '20,0001. than provoke her. s Mr. ARBUTHNOT denied that we were hated , rectors of Inland Navigation fns the even in France ; and as to every other part of Eu- I . • „TRANSPORT SERVIC rope, he believed we were highly esteemed and re- I Sir C. WARRENDER nmved, I spected. . 3,746,9451, should be voted for tin The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER vice' including aUowanres for sirs desired leave to make a short reply to the observations seamen, for prisoners abroad and of the Right lion. Gentleman. As to the Army Ex. seperstinuated and disabled clerks. traordinaries, they had certainly been very high from ' Mr. BANK ES made some °bier( the enormous expence we had been at in carrying on pence of the new nsport-office, ings, which he con Tra sidered as either the war in the Peninsula, but they would now be different, and much less from the facility we should u''necessary. W. H have in providing all articles of war,. and especially Mr. uc SMITH conceived that in the power of sending ready money. Ha was bate much more both to public utility to finish Shouse, ths happy to say, also, that there would be very great buildings in obscure ors remote pa+ sayings in the Barrack Department this year, w,seit compared with the Inst. There was one observe- - P ut ' s ' Lion of the Right Hon. Giititleman's which would Tne different Resolutions were ti , indeed give him great pain If he thought he deserved report ordered to be received to-men it, viz. that of having deviated from the plan of - SMALL PDX. Mr. Pitt. There were three periods whets efforts , Mr. WYNNE gave notice that wete made by Mr. Pitt to pay the war expences raw submit 8 ' 131066 a with a vie* within the year. Those were in 1795, 1797. and Practice of vaocirtation.. • • and 1798, and then the Loans were very high.— In the Climmittee on the Mut' That of 1797, however, was under a greater Clauses stare litootiticed by Lord vi.pposision, - and - the" rep's depreciation than this by at least three-quarters per without. cent. which caused that Right lion. Gentleman to turn , brought:us) sits day. his great mind to this subject, and to endeavour I Mr, 111. - cfreishitide' on"thellslb. TORlMPeir;ied l ro.r . ita *CD in future to raise the supplies within the year. In notes. 1803, Lord Sidmouth did the same; and in 1805, from - Stine r 'l4ll4,.*to May;" 1815, ' Lord Lansdowne pursued the same system, becausether:ivith lII' atiouttf Or the 43gesk., they all found that for a permanent expenditure it tslerinit:the 0144 Pertt'lf: ' • ' -- was necessary to bring the income and expenditure! - Mt. PEELI/.4sevealfor art ices 'ut as nearly equal as possible. The reason why the: of decrees merle by'die - present MP Loan had been extended during the last three years, ; Inirelend. -.; . • was the anxious endeavour to bring the continental • , ''.fie Hightand Bettis Bill Ktsed . war to as speedy a termination as possible. With ' *Wee. • 5... respect to the Sinking Fund, the Right Hon. Gen- l' e The Report of the Crsnimif tee on , tleman had been candid in his statement, for though back Bill was brought up, and agreed six millions appeared to be taken out, the actual de. The Poor-house l e .mbezzlernent Aciescy was only 17001. The experiment that had third time nod passed. • - ' been made was surely worth trying, and it had In:: • Mr. BROGDEN. brought in a awered its object. The excess in the amount of' i pensation for landesegnired for' publ read a first time; tg - miabti the erows borrowing had a tendency to cure the evil. Great part of the Hon. Gentleman's speech was a repetteinn Portsmouth. of his political creed respecting the war. He should. TI/Orish Sweet's Big was beau& not enter Much into that subject: The Hon. Gen. tie tune. . . . tleman said, that 300,000 Frenchmen would be suffi. The Irish Paper Regulation Bill and the Report ordered to be reeei , dent to resist the million of the coalesced armies.— I Doing all justice to the skill of the French • soidiers,.l Ad.l"efiled• • and the bravery of their troops, and not being able to enter into military calculations, yet he congra tulated the House on this statement of the Hon. Gentleman. He should think that it made fearful odds, and gave a reasonable ground for expecting success. If the active party in France were struggling for liberty ) it was the leet peing bouest moo would Tile French armies are MOO fortni are no fearer than 210,000 veteran% tier, (risking par.t of an army in all 600.900 wen. To *wet that Fri ran in one campsi frib loch t bard ourselves. ••• t 4 1 ~~ Mil tK arte at their bead ; 1 4 • , iples was ponessed ey had no martial were now bro"ght securi•les Were any likely to ire the lion. Gen. , at:' 'When proper ast tiros to consider • tt • • '. ‘ c 0 4 .1firCrartt .• . • e Ittril•Pgise4° • . Pius eral. Resollstioote: )1 4 , foi:the Ba rem ck 1! eriation *ea skreed the Croestaissatiat, . P, and • hating lest was 3000,t1001. ral's Dope rt mem for 1/344 ; foe the far reliquary . eas fel' he.same ter 181.4; icilepartmeat this 1 . .coeversatiou. be. > f goer, Mr. H.. Mar. ; pine, Mr. Row, • afore of the office. h it .vras at prevent 1 C'7 ml end rig= ire#ttstt.ith 160001. welitsiee, refuses, • isrtialei. Cog. • • . •.• In pownda sleben he Ifiausejnernals Loly bead, harboar; r ,Tesintaces. Mill. y.litrihse 3.5,0001. ',at and other secret • „ . . 'k tot•ce P ft • k tr workipau Croft s• Mies% ;P•ti: satny the .trisekinest Ile braildleg houses ,••• *aliens that could doteltl2Bo,oool. wipatter any • , , - tg,• as .ww were at retiated sitter coin t . t 1 Is hod been mine, ant could net say s agreed to.. • !d for the B rigid of anomie. were.. yros g forts on the coat arks .froerseveest • • • ...s ,a J t K-tite money vras • g tbe•garvisiteS....:_ ate of the fr . .* was a, of whons ar some dtecnssiess, road from Landoll • • hr Shrevrabory.. • 13,3211. were toted t t ; 4,7001. for the liquidate debts of to the Urigh Di. Roya.l Canal. ICH• , that the sine of the Transport Set.: rick and wounded at home, and for 1 restions nn the ex. sod other build. • er extravagant or . it would. eentri. magiiifireiseht and lain to erect 'neer arts of the metro. then read, and the iorrow. he should to.mor. r to facilitate the • 'fifty Bill, various PA L ERSTON Hirt ordered to be .- • !mint of the Bink • . of every mhoth, 5. iachi.ive, - togs. Post 'Bills issued urit 9f the nerefekr • .filer of the Aelle I thro ugh n the Gfitiattivr. .eed tn. ' . • . • t a ffil *kV toad 4 • a Bill, whlch — eas own to grant z.vm. 'garlic works near ht in, and seen a ; 11 was conamithrd, - ived so.mortot. 'ortol table. These 1.4 new ou the fr.-e. all of , not ICSI qlll4 Nitwit iv to Ge over. . barti :r, is it• de.id, I. lo to