The National Register. — London, England, 1820-09-04 00:00:00

utt Iriffitionalf Arai e 40,7, › , 4 - ottri Our thug, Conatttution, attli ataxic. MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 4, 1820 No. 1,265.—V0L. XIII.] IPaicx 94d. PROCEEDINGS AGAINST HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN. -- 1 110-- HOUSE OF LORDS. MONDAY, AUG. 28. The Lords were called over at ten o'clock. The Earl of Rearborough was unable to attend in consequence of illness.—The Earl of Bridgwater was in a similar situ- alien. A very long debate ensued on the question of allowing the goess's Cogent to 1 witnesses at first, and afterwards have the privilege of recalling them. Some Peers were opposed to this permission, but the ma jority were in favour of it. In the end, Counsel having presented themselves at the Bar, The LORD CHANCELLOR stated, that he bad it In command from the House to inform them, that it having been proposed that the House should discharge the order made on Satnrdaj, for hearing them en the mode of pro ceeding which was then adopted, and that the Counsel for her Majesty should now proceed with the cross-examina- Lion of the witness last before the Home in the usual way; under this understanding, that they might afterwards apply to have the witness re-examined, in consequence of stay facts and eireumstances coming to their knowledge pot presently knowu. His Lordship had it now also in commuand from the House to say, that if the Counsel for the Interests of her Haim) , had any objection to make to this Gouge of proceeding, the House were ready to hear them. Mr. BROUGHAM now commenced one of the most eloquent and aritinsentarive speeches which has yet been made in support of the ease for the Queen. The I Counsel said, that homiest have felt under some difficulty had be been called upon to state any course of proceeding which was lass objectionable, or liable to fewer exceptions then that now proposed to be followed by their Lord ships ; but that the diffieulty.was not great !jou bb was called upon to say whether any objections existed to that course of proceeding, and what those objections were. lie would first of all beg leave to say, on the part of her Majesty's Camel, In vindication of their interposing any objection at all, that whatever difficnlty existed In the ease, the difficulty was none of their making. Whatever diecalties there were, be they many or few—whatever obstacles now presented themselves, be they Treat or smell, or even insurmountable—they did not arise from an hull on the put of her Majesty's advisers. The party Wing the hill—his Majesty's Attorney General— hie MI way In every thing. The Counsel for her Nllhtty had made many objections to the course of pros rg followed, bnt it had always seemed good to the wisdom and justice of their Lordships to reject every suggestion of theirs, end to adopt the course proposed by their opponents. If, after having done so, tin' House found thintselves lit arty difficulty, he was entitled to say. that that difficulty had arisen front rejecting the IIIIPPlIea• lions made on thin pert of her Majesty ; and this it was widish formed the strongest reason he could possibly urge against the course of proceeding now proposed to be fol. lowed. it caa a most cogent reason why at extraordinary INdeloure should be splinted to the Counsel fur her Majesty, that they hail been thwarted in every attempt they had made to obtain whatever was ordinarily allowed In all oases, whether civil or criminal !--(II• ar, hear!). ''trey had been drooled what was wanted in every case, and therefore it was !bat they claimed indidgencies which were called fur In no other cote. Their Lt , rdslilps had Missed a list of witnesses, without her Majesty's Counsel o'er having been heard iu 6014)401 nt' the demind for it— the decision was made on a motion by one of their Lord ships' awn namher, Hut what welt still more evraorili nary, their Lordships had refused a speeitleativa of the places where the alleged eats of crintiiiality bail taken piece. In a case of High T 1046011 the indictment would have stated the county where It would be proved the erinto was committed I hut here the venue has alat'ad over three quarters of the gloire--Eorepr. Asia. and AtVioai In suns« one or other of the empires, Lisioluns, provinces, cities, ports, low us, couulries, inhabited and Yninbabtled wilikroeues, rivers, seas, etc. of the said three quarters 01 . the earth.-mil his it syxs which formed the mast extraordinary of all Ilse pecoliarities to this extraordinary prneeedini. The party accused knows out when or where the crime with which she is eltarec't alleged to have born culuonilled. This was the defence u: Intmeenre,not of guilt, 11 . :here weir guilt, a knowledge of the pieces alight exist, s n it, of enuir‘e, Nil Wet, of the particular naisire 4 11 . 111 C '.baleenwou ld s i t gu est au " because thee unused was Slot ht 110 , 1 , plans , >ill4l oLoause she was intioeritt, nu jutignierit could be funned as 1.. the persons of the wilurillira, or the places of which they spoke. Upon the demand their Lordships had also ile• visaed without heat ing Counsel ; end, nut %whet 4 114 1 1 Ni that peculiarity of her al,..iesty's situation, and the which the Hill of Nina arid Priorities hedetil hurie tine advalllsgrs granted to other'. were di surd r. Her Majesty's Counsel bad ventured to tour tude that they had obtained die meaning of their Lordships' order; that in lieu of the advantages denied, they were to have certain advantages peculiar to the ease, devised by the wisdom and justice of their Lordships, to Meet the diffi culties in which their Lordships' justice and wisdom had placed her. It was little thought by her Majesty's Coun sel, that when those advantages came to be sifted, they would be found to be the common advantages allowed in all eoserts of justice, as matter of indisputable right.—ln the case of the Duchess of Norfolk, all the advantages here denied were granted. The Duke was called upon to state the periods and places when and *here the acts were said to have been committed. Her Proctor attended at the bar of the !louse. On the 14th Janisary an order was made by their Lordships upon the Duke to specify the places and witnesses. On the 16th, the specification was objected to, as of too general a nature. The same day the objection was answered, mod a more particular specifica tion ordered. This leading case was that to which their Lordships should look for a guidance in their proceedings. To say that it was no authority was childish sporting.— Upon that famous case, three or four witnesses swore di rectly to the fact of adultery; but, notwithstanding those depositions (so material was the cross-examination, not one word of which could have been given, except a spe cification of witnesses had been supplied, the evidence was disetedited, and their Lordships threw out the Bill.) How monstrous and crying an injustice was it to pretend to found a denial of the advantages sought for upon the practice of the Courts of Law ! Such was the way in which they were desired to look into the Courts of West minster. Was the evidence to go forth to the Public basely and malignantly misrepresented ? Suppose a wit nesigoes through a fair examination, such as we may say the first witness underwent, yet under wind striking dis advantages does a Counsel labour in the cross-examina tion, who, until that moment, was ignorantof Isis existence —name—place of residence—or the facts that he was called on to praise. If their Lordships bad allowed a list of witnesses, and a specification of. the places where the crime was alleged to have been committed, and had granted the two months delay asked byilie Counsel for her Majesty. instead of sniFering the charges to go forth, then they (the Counsel) would have bad nu difficulty, nor would they have asked for any delay. To their Lord ships, however, it seemed good to do otherwise. Did Noble Lords believe that there was such virtue in Counsel, or such tunic in the dress they wore, that the moment a witness comes awl states any thing, the Counsel may be enabled from his appearance to know what he is, or wise titer he speaks the truth or not? One injury in the pre at ease was, that all the exanduatiofte atone side were pr. milted to go forth and poison the public mind, and that the Judges in this tribunal mixed infinitely more with the Public than in ordinary . " Suppose, said the Learned Counsel, that a mantle hence it is discovered that A. B. a witness, has received a sum of money for swearing against the Queen, nay, that the condition of his receiving that suns was the conviction of her Majesty, and Learued Lords knew how important it would be to prove such a tact, yet I cannot do this, according to law, until I have cross-examined the witness. I ask bins, did you receive so and to? If he confesses, I gain my point; if he denies it, then I bring forward my proof." The Laerned Gentleman continued.—There were numberless ways to impeach the credibility of a witness, and that of counter declaration was very important His Learned Friends on the opposite side, although they appeared here for nobody, would not fail seising the advantages of which they would thus become p d. Was it over kiiusvii, since we had just Judges and bold Counsel, that the us titre of a cross examination should be stated before it commenced? It so it was a mockery to call it a ci examination ; it was asking for a permissioss which he (the Counsel) would disdain to accept es a favour, butt demand as a right front a Court of Justice; and yet their Lordships appealed to those Courts, where uu Judge would dare to refuse it. The Leartind Conii•el void,., the astonishment of himself, and those who wet e engaged with him, was as great as their disappointment, that all the favourable anticipation raised by their Lortithips be nothiug—that the cup of hope should be diluted from their lips—that they should labour under greater disad vantages than ever. Their Lordships compelled then, to hear witnesses oat tubjects of whicit they were ititiviant, and facts alleged to have been committed all over the globe, When the House had conic to this ill-umeated situation, the Counsel fur the Qiieen were allowed to state their objections to the proceeding. The Leareed Coon. eel concluded d weevil toplete with to Cr and ehegunce, by imploring their Lordships to 'muse before they plunged line arty new difficulty. Mr. DLIN 114 N rose, and wit.; much eloquence protested as counsel for the illustrious accused, against a ,nurse of priweeding which, tend. d to 1114isli her Alajeidy% Coombe' nirtiiino her, :intl to deprive her ut the 10,011'14e grou.i dt of defence. lie contended that t hero waN uo , ecurily for the Soucen—tio security for the incaneit subject-110 seek!. ' ray for any individual in aupu.l ass inbly, if it permia charged with an ogeuee should he t kptil m d of 111,. riot of a free, full, ow cif unt , liackletl a ma, (.4 ; for ILI 1441 lie 11nIncetare 'if the amused ofit . J ▪ tlepended—(llear, hear, hear.)—lt n a. on le4 paioti,, and dry lectinicolit Ir., that be a sat ve.ak•.t.; ; hal he would alqu:nl In !heir Lordslllll.., and vantoul them lo he aiszare how they laid do ais rules ti inn a bark l ies 11414 %jails (I,•eurt ; and to lscn aid hoe they sh pprd "n "-f"r unlute ricrii.e.t or ail int .tit, of drientliii„; .41-i it ••• 10.4 an • k.-01...11*, 6'411 -Ilene Ihr t:..tat• •I sound the great advaiittu,rii which at Frau(' drew. oi a. a t laru.-uu lingie•sed over tor Majesty. The", a hat of 1k 1113 , w% was. luitoilled. at - laajenCr 111:111iimed. ;and f.le a• , , , I(.011 math, adv. To• - ir taut a singly a mi ntd eAcepi Ihnlae tonlaislCd In that Lt. lie me , / not state how far this differed from the piesent case. lie ap pealed to their Lordships, if nosy one of thew, or the., relatives, were accused of a crime at which the mind revolt., stated to have been committed in Egypt or Greece, what other menus they would have of meeting it, but by a crags examination, after they bad been enabled to ascertain the character of the witnesses against them? There was ono important topic, and be thought it was the only one to which his Learned Friend bud not adverted, mostly. that her Ma jesty's Counsel hail not been furnished with copies of those depositi and papers, on which a Committee of their Lordships had made a report, recommending the histitutioa *footle proceeding against her Majesty. He (Mr. Denman) had distinctly made application to their Loedslups for these papers, 411f1 that application had bee refused. It was by having an oppoituoity an a former occasion when her Ma jesty's character was assailed, of contrasting the prepara tory affidavits of certain persons with the subsequent depo sitions before the Lords Commissioners, and by that means alone her Majesty had been able to establish her innocsuce in the eyes of the world. But of that advantage her Ma jesty is now wholly deprived. It wasinspossible not to per. ceive that several of their Lordships who had been in the Committee before nlludel to, had put questions to wit nesses from information which they acquired from other sources tban the public proceediogs consequeut on this 11111 from sources to which the Counsel of her Majesty bad been refused, and had had no access—hut to which they ought to have Use freest access, were it intended to do justice to her .Majesty._( Hear.) —This was one strong reason, in ad. dition to the many which bud been stated, why her Majesty's Counsel should nut be deprived of the most fall, ample, and oleic right of cross-examination, or of any opportunity of bringing forward, at any time, any information which might throw a light on the case, or cast infamy on those who bring infamous charges. However painful it might be, it would be better for the ioterests of the public that her Ma jesty's Counsel should at once withdraw from the enquiry, than give their sanction to a course of proceedings by which ins real justice could be dune to the accused party. It would, indeed, be painful, but ant so painful as to concur in a pro. cecding by which, in the person of her Majesty, bee safety of every person in Enemas, would be compromised, mid to which any of their Lordships might themselves fall victims hereafter. It did seem to him as if her Mojesty, by every • fair means of defence being withdrawn (rem her, were dor voted to destruction—that her desteenhian, at all hazards, . was vowed and resolved upon. Henever would cease to insist for the most full and unreserved right of erns-extuillia• nation on all occasions. It would he better. a thowsand times, that all the summer months of the two ten years should be occupied in the enquiry, that, that the lonstilljustb e should be done - to the Illmitrione Party in the ease by any difficulty io the way of proceeding, of which their Lordships were themselves the cause. The Le/wined Gentleman cun eluded a most impressive speech, by cosijoring their Lurdahips to be guided alone by those great principles— not of written but of unwritten law—principles which were engraven on ' the hearts of all men, nod by which every cultivated wind was regulated. air It. Clifford, the Attorney-General, and Sir J. Copley, the Solicitor-General. severally addressed their Lordships against acrurding to her Majesty's Counsel, tar permission they requested. to whom Mr. BROUGHAM replied. He denied that be had wil fully misquoted the Hake of Norfolk's case. The King's Counsel had complimented their Lonlahips—he would admit its justice. They, however, seemed to bare a monopoly of all the learning, of all the skill, and those on. the other side had only an odd volume or two to guide them. With these he was content. Those on the tale& side to be sure had Cob • hetes 46 State 'Freaks" he haul only the folio volumes to consult. The 40th and 47th page% of the 17th volume of their Lordships' Journals bore Inns out. Twenty witnesses were examined, according to those Jourials, and they wese cross-examined us to how they lie`ed; some of them said they hived on their own means. The Duchess, according to the Journals, was furnished with u list of witnesses. their moues, places, &c.; a n d also with three days time to proceed. (lie Learned Gentleman denied all tiii.; he only I - moulted their Lordships' Jouruals, and read flow them. The times and places were also given, and if the Attorney-Geiseral had furnished him with similar cases, the same were the fart for thou4li the prisuiler did um knave some particulars till he Bill was found, yet the pi honer knew iu what comity lie was imprisoned, nod that he was to be tried fur something done within that county. Herne the accusation tsto over a sej jet: of yours and divers places in various quarters of the world ; a hale a pi isouvr wits not tried for a felonious inter. course hi piekin.; sundry pockets, but fur some specific acts. A good dent was said al m ost precedents, soul Bills of Pains and Penalties were argued, as it they were regular lawful pruceedin,;s, instead of being exceptions to all law. item was to be a general rule—but why was there to lie a gene. ral rule at the expence of the Queen, soil not of the nip°. site party —it was said that it would he better for ten guil:y persons to escape than lot (air imam coat person In bit poitsherl ; but the coutiary seemed to he acted npnii. However, it was clear from the evidi-nee, 1 114 1 1 11 1 Ce WWII" he used whom hi toes tailed: and he as.unieol that similar powers. foreign powers, would ion he used to Ming his - ward the Querit'a a itneatirs. They 'nigh: he used l's keep them away. These acre souse of time dierolttes which weie played in the, sexy, Lord LIVERPOOL noised, that the House do now ailjoiii hi. 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