The Statesman. — London, England, 1814-06-25 00:00:00

the conviction -was erroneously pronounced, and the nem of the Court below erroneously found. id, hr hoped he had no deficient sense of that high hettoor %ouch ought to fasten itself upon the conduct a a Mewherr fif that House, or that he should not be backward in visiting that case, if it should be found to he due to it, with that vote of expulsion one, prohahly the least implicated, into Court t to apply for 'which toes usual in such cases; but be protested against being bound to come to sock a conclusion Alsowt the mere clirct-ot the judgment,. without being a new Mat t att. at shobtain the rest would be butitled to comae in and . tike tk, same benefit; but in the event of his'net obtaining - a wsw trial, those other persons, the melt present t *Dori gnE Me *bt Corn S> Owlet verdict on the feet* iefere them. But the ce4ektuences tlf thit swoeld not apply to Members but most, open tlie • doors of the Rene satisfied that that judgment had helm founded on jus tilin•ettr tmd—marle—these observations from a pure sense of what was due to the cue under all itit though -19 - . . . . deeply involved in the crime, would have the best • $ all the inferior subjettit ii'the realm. Thej opportunity afforded • them of eluding the punish. would, have to retry also titiAikews and others in moot. Tills was the technical rule. h woo with theireitUation.. He should think that nothing . . - latlculaf of' .1 - - . CUIII,I6IICPS. • He never had' the slightelt ‘pecsonal no% tedge.okf the Noble Lord ; he never was intro. choced to him ; , he time spoke to him; be never was his Company ; he *poke without any . ether ingu. once than that-possibly which the severity of the see tence might have excited, but with no disposition to 41void 11111$ oeuclusion to which he might arrive upon • e careful veview of the case. „ ;41 r. 1111;0A, DH I);,as he good so committed on this (*lesion, trusted that he might be allowed Lo aay a few words. nevould assure the House that be did not entertain the alighest feeling or die. • position to orge.the-business in which he had engaged correspond VIM . . great pleasure, however, be stated, that oo technical, ited to giVe.taimpir wound to the institution rule, however wisely footled, or however lops. it 1 larks, tban for .the Trouie of Commons to .take might have been acted on, was permitted in:a 1 Owl them tb ieevide the testimony on which they ,British Court of Justice .tb Stork • injustice toVrardi : , to their conclusions: With veapect to the notes any one. .The•Couit would find ; ,season for (Vide; ', .' L ord Ellenborough," they could • not produce the justice. tt would make technical roles bend whet. on the. House which was. done op the Jury, they stood In the way of substantial right. Whit ht ''b# the sight of the witnesses; traversing the Court been the course of proceeding in the recent insmnce: with their eyes and fixing' on .Derenger. . The et. The Grand Jury had found . a . tree bill'olgainst De felt of the motion• Would• be to.place the House in Berenger and others for a conspiracy. Titedefeisd- the situation of a Jury, without the sanction Of •an . ... . ants could . not _have been compelled • to tat* their. oath. . • . tiial until the sittings after Term (ten-or tiilvoilays ! . Mr, HORNER, though he egreed with the Hon. after the period at which he was .tokli the' and Learned Gentleman in the . conclosion which he but but' - the - the heti ' differed with Mr entirel the Itat , any *ay should not completely with the general sentiment. With respect to the lion. gentleman's Motion,, he 'mold abstain from Riving rtoy opinion upon it. lie certainly had had it in contemplation .to submit to the House on Friday next, w 'notion founded solely on the document which bad that evening Iwo laid on the table, owl lie believed that in entertainiug.sach an intention, he lm justiked by the usages of .Parliament. If, how ever, the lion. Gentlemen desired further informa tion, for the purpose either of. satisfying himself of the.guilt ..of the iudividuals in question, or of in.. deCing the How to think more favourably of those ' tatlliftloals he had not the slightest wish to.throw • • t • • , any . imieedintent in the way.of, the success of his ma. . Mr. HOLMES offered to read an extract from Lord Coehrane's letter to him, but the House did seem disposed to hear it. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL declared, that be rose on this occasion with very unpleasant sensa. tions. If consistently with hls duty he could do any thing to meliorate the situation of the individual in question, it would afford him a high gratification ; • but he apprehended that it would be impossible for him to acceded to the present motion consistently with his respect for the due administration of the functions of Parliament, which he could not consent "should be used for purposes that, however they were considered, must embarrass their. proceedings, fo. reign as they were to the legitimate objects which Parliament ought - always to keep in view. It was im.. possible for him to acquiesce in the motion consistently with Isis respect for thpt sacred institution—the Trial Ly Jury. For what' was it proposed to the !louse to do? To review a conviction by a Jury ! To sit as a Court of Appeal—tosit as a Court of Error-on the facts on which a Jury had pronounced a verdict If it were propqr to do this, ought not•the House in point of justice to go a step further, to permit the prosecutor to appear at the Bar and .!amend his case, and to permit the Defendant to add new eat. deuce to that which be had adduced iu the Coprt below ? This, however, at once appeared so ano. otalows.• so inconvenient, that , the, very mention of it siemed to alarm the lionourabte Gentlemen.— ' 011 the general merits of the case itself, he would cautiously abstain from uttering a single syallable ; for, compelled as he was to resist a proceeding by !that which the nical rules or the Court bad pre. which it was supposed the situation of the individual I vented him from doing On the preceding day. He in question would be ameliorated, he was partici:. I reed from a paper, which Was very ably written, lady anxious at least not to make any observations and which evinced a profound knowledge of the law, 'which might be prejudicial to that situation. He was a minute and scrupulous examination' f the, evidence sure also that the House would' not expect, from ; which had been adduced at the trial,' and be then such at humble individual as himself, that he would offered to the Court certain affidavits in support of conduct himself so indecorously and improper.! his application. Did the Court intrench itself tie. ly, as to attempt to vindicate the judgment - of a j hind their technical rules, or say that it was too late Court formed, according to the institutions of the! to grant-a new trial? If persons &twitted came tap country—a Court, the members of which he would for judgment at the distance of six years from the venture to say were as distinguished by learning as ; trial, the Court would greet a new trial if they any that ever sat in Westminster Hall, and who ! thought fit. Bu t. the Court had heard from the were not more distinguished by their learning titan Noble Lord all that could possibly have been ad by their strict and uniform attention to justice. He, dressed in his favour. The. paper which he read in therefore, only laid in a claim, if the sentence of 'Court was drawn up by no mean hand,, and had eve. that Court had experienced the universal censure dently the finish git a master. As to the matter of which the lion. Gentleman opposite declared that affidavits, in'a cue like that in question, it was le it had, to have it considered as the result of deep , constant rule of toort to refuse them. But What and impartial deliberatiou on the part of persons of I were the affidavits offered by the Noble Lord ? high and unimpeachable honour, who were in every Mr. 11011 Niill rose to order. If neither the re. way calculated to discharge, with advantage to the port of the evidence, nor the affidavits wire to he country, the important duties confided to them.--- allowed to be laid before the House, it not At. Whether the circumstances of the rank and station I ting that they should take an account of the contents of the individual in question, or the services which 1 of these affidavits, on the credit of any Mitelie4 he s had formerly rendered the country,, might be however high hie character in the House. deemed fit, matter for representation in. a quarter to The ATIORN EY..G EN ER AL was thankful for which a proper appeal was never made without suc- the interruption, bat if the Honourable and Learned ems, he would tint say ; but this he would say, , Gentler can had listened to him, he would have found that the House of Commons , would doper.. from their ! that in the waybe would have spoken of the alb cbtissitutional functions, if they entered into a consi- I davits, he had uo intention of injuring the cause of deration, whether the punishment inflicted, by one of the Noble Lord. the Courts of Westminster Hall, was too great or Mr. HORNER said, be had net latisfspted i the toe little in its amount. There was one most pier- Honourable and Learned emitleman because harms, °us error, on which an Honourable Gentleman op. afraid that he meant to prejudget•the cum of the posit. (Mr. Browne) had founded a great part of Noble Lord , 'bit peciuie 'be wished' that 'nothing. _ . Ile F Al of certain technical 1 *cull be stated which might in any wayprejudge the Judges was such as to call for the interletenceof the Nouse; but no such case u this - wifit ,present laid before them. In such ~case,- however, the House might properly call for all manner - Of evidence which they might deem necessary. The - Bon. ind Learned Gentleman had contended, that the? , would- bci obliged, on this principle, to try OW Pitt_ ev_st*. person tinder a similar sentence with dude el tbe..Dle. , ble Lord ; and among others he mentioned the kews. But the Hem ,it was proper tb were here called on to expel OOP of their _,Mem. Berl ; end the information they wished was merely for the sake of informing their own consciences with respect to the vote which they Wilt come to on that subject." They had . nething to do with the Courts of Justice, except something was stated which called ' bn them to act in their inquisitorial capacity. The question reduced itself to this, Whether, for the purpose of .voting on the motion for the expulsion, it would be necessary for them to go over the eri- dence at the trial ? In this case it did not seem ne cruary to him to call for more information' that they bad before them. Ile was fully satisfied with the verdict of the Jury, and the Judgment of the Court. Bat on the principles on which be had formerly voted for the expulsion of Members of that House, he declared that in doing so he considered that he did nothing more than send back to his constituents the person excluded. He considered a i blemberas a trustee for the people w hp sent him, and if in the course of the trust, any thing should occur, whether in consequence of the verdict of a Jury or. other. I •wise, which might .call . for a revision of that trait,' it would be proper to expel him the House ; and it was in that light, and no other, that he could give hiasepport to such 'measure. The verdict of a Jury' ought, in his opinion, to hare credit given to it -by the his argument. _ ha% spoken rules, which had prevented the party convicted from obtaining a revision of the verdict pronounced agai►►st him ; and had • stated that that party complained of the injustice of the verdict. Now, really, he (the Attoruey•General) bad never, in the whole course of his practice, -met with a single-case of k person so convicted, who had paid the Court a compliment on cense of either the prisoner or the Crown. The ATTOItN l EN ERAL merely - wished to state, that no technical rules had stood in the way of the Noble Lord. He did not mean to stets the contents of the affidavits, Weenie he did not know, them himself, but merely,the grounds on which they were not received.—One or the allidailte contained ev House, ai fir as to give thi constituents an opportu nity fOr. saying, whether they would any longer con: eider the Member expelled sea fit .person to be sent lo Parliament. On these grounds , be should` vote against the motion. , „ Mr. W.'WYNNE did not think that any reason mu given to induce the House to depart from .theli _ - his conviction, by abstaining from irteidgliing •gaiust ft in similar terms. if the Noble Lord inveighed against his sentence, therefore, he vas in a nu•., merous class. But the Honourable Gentleman had maintained, that the -individual in question had (taken every possible means to obtain a re-herring of his case, but in vain; because the practice of the the ience of a servant, who WASat • u 4 _. .. , trial ; .- but kt,never..could• be peria,hisat plisks, MIMI II lierUk . should he itlio*itl to amend s i * ': 1 , .....gact from the evid e nce given eta trier v i would be *pregnant , with the 'ovf;ii, peas.,', quences. Another of ,tho atliilavits istike that of pot* 1 Boos in fttendebee in ,Coerr, sni t dipisblo of *tog; - Here - • practice in former instances-of a sit. nature. Had any thing been stated against the justice of-the Coon, or had any unfiainess on the part of the Judge, from whatever cause, whether 'of a political nature or otherwise, been alleged, he should feel it . a, cast where % the Mee might with propriety enquire intetVea pro. yeedirigs " the Ginn of Law • bet in th),:y:ese no • House et , s" Court ass so termed round by techtneal relies, that all hi. efforts were thereby rendered abortive. The direct contrary of all this was most unequivocally true. It became necessary for Mm to state what had actually been the course of proceeding ; in Order to show that there had been no impediments obtruded, nap' technical rules, no fencing round, according to the allegations of the Honourable Gentleman. There was a rule of Court which provided, that in the case of several persons convicted of a conspiracy, if any or • , called, bat actually not, 401 ed at fill trial. adequate grow* bad been stated to Indite.) the he would appeal to the common‘ Tense of justice . * to-go iMo the signify. , • thellause it ; 'tiipci4 villa* ', oiiiiiv od horrdefiSer . Tbliestioi w a tt an negatived. . if Such a paw-ties were allowed, there would bean . MIK Irbil? WELLINGTON. end to every thing' ilk* a trial.. 'The pthonerstiati Mr. W. WYDII4II adverting to-the arrival. of the the advice and assistavies of the . Most able Connie' f . , Dike, otWilltattoo l wished to know from . Ministers if they .did not instruct the Otiose' . to call those' ishethes,' 44 had It .contemplation to pr.Tose and persons it was their own fault rand .if the Geoid measursued Houseyto enable them to. pay shitabli. thought it upon the whole more athentageoes not to honest , to that great and illustrious individual ? It call the witnesses, then this was no teams nee to ' willed also to know, if, as had been usual at 04 . • of a, war, it was in thew to' thanks of the House t o his Maj e u re the consequence et peace would he ars; the ftitiei, the thanks ought to b e l o ok possible. [ANCELLOkot the EXCHEQUER *few words across the table, but we were atterltf unable to catch a single eipression: Mr. WYNNll 7 said t in the case' of de ntki efietigitt it to vett , the. thank,* the House Co him tor his' eneral conduct iu the of the war- stone spppiiit a piTitiou to e s him, for, the pertiose of Giulio& kl atit t t. 41 _ aide atfifiti its thit country; Ile , tbat an early day should betted for tbCperiteas which he had alluded. ORAfffIR AtrteCiAlltrltk • `: Sir J. NEWPORT hid he held in his bands a Si tition, signed byw dentber of Protestantsandg 4 4, l6 • tics' of Ireland, friends to civil and religiOos tibj At the conch:Won of a peace abroad, it' wits osier; nary that peace sbould also be insured at boat": Q at great meths of contributing to this tkii MC! end trOli 'be by putting . an end to all Associations througlik Ireland, in toranteitotatloti of vietories long pint,. At the end of 120 . fears the victor ought no t to le allowed any 166gt+fiv ittinThph over the - Jte%sing 1i0u5eh . ,....4....th parties, , prosecutor& sod. L. come to, ~ ~a wit.. atm so y, on , , vanquished. :'defendanta %Mae an earnest application littite.Lord grounds 'of that conclolion, that he could not silently l e would appeal to the feeling, of the House, if to I • • 1 ' Chief' Justice to derange theordinary forms by acre. tote *ilk him against the motion. With respect to • ttle of Culloden had been annually celetiratol i' .. . a i lerating the trial. To the prosecutors Ids Lordship the punishment,. there was „nothing which could in. ; EdlnbOrgh, that trannelllity would have been its. said nothing—the wish of the defendants he nosh duce him to entreat hit opinion of the sentence, as Wished in Scotland.. He felt confident that a0..J.. not listen to from their nttorn or . our tirdhittri . : led es it bad any chance of being taken into con- proper motive would be artriboted to hint *Ate* agentS ;" but required that thifir w ebsitel should ! e; eideration in that . quarter 'where . alone it could tin. sent occasion, as he himself gloried is 4, 0 pear in Court to make the application. This Joe i .der*omodification...-[/kstr; hession—As to the Rules scended from One of these-Otkeenef Rini_ done, the Lord Chief Justice in consequence (to the' of 0100; .hr - iikdisot 14„0-00.4001, that the Court Dutch Guards, who contributed largeitteAltat inconveuience of sit otter suitors in die pourt,), did proceeded strictly • andleigoiaitly . in the present case, ' tory, against the celebration of which he inlet sew ' appoint an early day kith. Mel. At the trial thi itecerdiug to their established Moe .. If the rule was contending.. Nothing more contributed to the es. I defendants were defended'. by.. persons *Mi . established,%i was necessary to enferce it in that end . tracted state .of Ireland than such cornmem o n it t iii eminent for their . talents. and -legal -knowledge...•ell ether cases. • But with regard to the role itself, ! which was considered by one party in"the light of i loi • ! They were tried by a Vela, ;err Oribe city. of the term smispesed wisdom, made as& of by the suit aOd degiadatron; and it was fruitless t o aapposti 1 London, reduced by one Vela, Igor. and Learned Gentleman, In :peaking, of 'it, that if due means were not used to put an e n e t . I Johnstooe). • RythatJury they- etere.foundptilty. • seemed to him no bad description of that rule. He them, that the peace of Ireland would eve r b e ta i , lOn a subsiqtsent day, within a perieti preeeribed by Could not discoier in It the least reason or wisdom, ' stored. As the Government , (ad resolved to. poi* ' law, the individts Ito whom the present cievereittion and a: thousand cases might occur where it would i down ivory improper assembly which had a tendency 1 .. principally related, applied in the Caurt'of King!, lead to hardship and oppression.—•[/f ear, isear!]— ,to disturb the public peace, he called upon them tor Etenchlor a new trial ; commencing Ms application He opposed the motion, `because he had the most on- ! the enforcement of the existing laws, perdcah r t y Iby slating, that he tunderstood•it could not-be soda shaken-conviction of the regularity of .the proceed- : that of 18 10, to put down all secret associathtes, and Gby Counsel. In this statement he was entreated by Inge at the trial. The motion related to two species i to prohibit all processions decoratedlrith itsipiaea i the Csiirt..,And he was also 101d t ,hit' Other Periors .of papers, the Report and the Affidavits. - The particular days, Which . were piling to see 'idyll ' 1 genvitited of a conspiracy had bias tepid, the same House might order the affidavits, and other papers, the country. . . .. . . mbroint,.thatthe Court tould nattier e motion for ' tending to throw light.on the question •befotel them, . The Petiticet. liiiir"tetitif . :lig: figelned to lie sm is i nett; trial in the 'case or it Codapirady, whet' one to be laid before them ; but as t o thl . notei l ie be. I table. . _ . ~ -,. -, , i alone of those who bad been .engaged its the cost. tiered there was no precedent' to itarrant them in Mr. -riANKRS, as S Chairman of the Comositititi spivacy made the application. !rite Askews'batl.that ;caning f or that, private document *Melt was kept by to whom the retitiops epilog any alteratieft le this : morning made ass affidavit,, that they could not hying ' the Sedges' for the information Of the Jury, and of Corn Laws were 'referred, stated; that the Cermarittia' . Into Court the persons who had been cossyicted with the Secretary of State, for the sake of ulterior pre-i had received frees Dublin returns of Grain in Mardi !.. them; and ,yet they :were l'old,..that unless they.did ceedings. It was not in th e ordinary coarse of tbi i and May which: differed- both as to quantity and tso their application could not .be' listened ta. The i proceedings of the House; therefore, to call for the ''seltie. He Moved that an account, explanatory el Noble, Lord was told the ante.' • -Let the Howie Report. Whether a case might- ot ague , when it I (Ms difference, should be laid before the Commit! mark the sequel. The. Counsel 'for the di4endsmes: might be proper to address the Prince Recent for the I tee...-Ordered. - on a subsequent day moved for in arrest of judgment : notes taken at. A trial, was 4 . questidlol t togethei dif- : Lovd PALMERSTON presented a Petition from 'At least the Learned Sorjeatit, who was Counsel fort ferret ; bufnotiting..in the present al.-Was. anted ' the University of Cambridge, against the Copy-rigia Butt, and who did every thing he undertook-with the which rentierettstreh . w 'Proceeding. adtletibl*.;: Hot 11111, itnd•praying that !heir existing rights might* greatest ability, follo4ed by several others of the while he stated this, he differed With thellentiertible iltaintehms to-them.. ' • . . . „highest talent, moved for .an arrest of judgment for' and Learned. Gentlemany as to what be ,tad said -Mr. WYNNE 'said, that the University of Doha . hts'client. If Butt had succeeded in this application with respect to the examiqatibe of stridence in this ; lire, and" t'he Ring's Inn, hid •no right to any 1 ....if j u d gmet it sted been a r rested with rellpactio!bini, , case, Which. hi 'contended to-begotooot upon a new ; beoks but shot* which were entered in triationsts% it must have been arrested with respect . to eery one I trial. The Souse were 4Ssii . stiani any thing in • hail- • ki ...• ,—. ... i- of those implicated with him :in the same etfence.:-e- I the ordinary course of - Mild' osd jortspradence, but [ ThEntinen7,lll l 4 ` *ad, end ordered io' fie' 'ea '' ii The Court, however, were dearly of opinion * end ! exercising a species of 'jurisdiction peculiar to i the table. •- . . IdAyered itAt opining' seriatim. that .tberer t .l.lol•Bo- i.thcmselves ; end there was so, role to prevent! - Mr. WAIZACE obtained leave' to bring is a , thing in any of the points which had been ' Urged that I them from Calling for evidence in a erase where it Ritt - to rionsverelt - doubts respecting the varlourDe ...l riall.d for an arrest of judgment. What was' the I might be pro Per for them to interfere: - keitio.miiht ties and Taus imposed-by the several Governateets • next proceeding? The Noble Lord, did precisely 1 b_e -stated, 'in which the coltdoct of the Jury and. in Indio tech& br __ - . - ._ - - ' the On the motion of the CHANCELLOR .of E'XCHEQUEIt, it Was ordered that the House, at its rising, should adjobrn until Monday: SPIRITS INTERCOURSE BILL. The 'CHANCELLOR of the , EXCHEQUEI moved that the Bill should be committed pro form itied . that the discussion should take•place on the rs. ownsideratiow of the' Report. , . Mr. FINDLAY pioposed that Counsel should be Miffed in on the part of the Distillers of Mlle sow,. Sm. , •• The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER sage gestiid l that•it would be much more convenient to postpone the hearing of Counsel until a future day. Mr. WEiTERN opposed the principle and Tani. ous enactments of the Bill on behalf of the Distillers of England. Mr. FJTZGERALD, after some lelearks, pre. posed (hat the discussion should be pottpeeed until the subject were more ripe for debate. Mr. W. SMITH, at considerable length, argeei against the Bill, and professed his determination to oppose it in'ait its stages. - Lad CASTLEREAGH supported it, arguing that the measure Was fotinded upon reciprocity and, justice, and that it only put the Irish distiller upon a level with the Eitglish distiller. The Noble Lord obncluded with expressing • hope, that that great natiohai,seetlemegt o .the I,7ltion, would never be die. turbid, andestated, that. to his icnou ledge it was the intention' of the authors otthat measure that the trade of spirits between this pikt if the Empire and Ireland should be perfectly free. - • . Mr. W.' SMITH egplitisatitt' Mr. BRAND coawieived that the operation _et 00 Bill before the Tioasinetheld ite to - eve to the Irish distillers 'the monopoly •of 'the English market, to theobvious iirejnchce of the English distillers, whor es a farther !aggravation, 'were not to be made se/ altowtoeo for the taxes which they had paid upon . the quantity' of -.spirits they had already distilled upon the faith that the Ken-Intercourse Law would he farther alatkaiNed. The amount of taxes so paid, Ira *nderstood t3e•'lion. Member to state at 400 1 0001. 700 t 000 winos: W. el' upon , gallons: Mr. . iTZGER.ALD explained. Mr. B. SIIAW maintained that the object and tea= denci , of the . Bill was to establish a coniplete reel procity between England and - freland, as the Union proEiosii‘lt was, in fact, its intention to correct an erica:N:l,y. Which the drawback .epon spirits ex , _ the ported -from all parts of Great 13ritain being th lime, the. Scotch distillers obtained through loch drawback no less than two shillings and threepence per gallon above tife j lag they actually paid, and thus had an undue advantage. That thn Scotch tli,iiller thould be 'lntim, tit retain that advantage to lite prejudirctor Ake revenue aud.pf the distiller of. he• land, might be natural, but he trusted that the jut'- Lice of Parliament would remove the error, II I 'd I it° contply with the' reasonable desires of the Irish ail' Tilt S'rATP.,S — M . AN .. , _ . i . ptotoorkitid desired a as?, trial, .p 'l4lliinatilo km kw Lai irskittl until' ilie tither top. b /Pik Ain alit , orisir into tVe Court ilk. The Ole icon . Sid hilittile. the lie' wise principle—asetely, thdt if Inter- their ionsideisti4u. ere convicted of a tOnspiracy, and there was no ground for' it. , least implicated, were on coming , the present motion 1-4 t wi . . ............_..„,..._ 4 . 1 , sir trill. . -pr ' IN.conclasion 42 front patio*, 16 mote the prop a sew trial i'forceS? As t Ind, isi indigtainsti l iduction of tl What *at tie object of i as mirky as p as to grant a new trial in 1 . The CHA vim was I seliei t ~~. r ~. I