The Statesman. — London, England, 1815-03-16 00:00:00

tem adopted by this country, he had only to request their Lordships to look at the Statute Books, and see how numerous these exceptions were. The Le gislature had been in the constant habit of interfering, and the plan had grown up and extended through so many ramifications, that it often became absolutely necessary to afford protectiob to one species of in dustry ist,.order to prevent its- falling a -sacrifice to those descriptions of industry which otherwise would be more favoured. Many of these enactments might tint have been deemed proper at a more advanced period ; cud if their Lordships were now to begin on a new system, the course of legislation would in all probability he materially different : but these Statutes had long been acted upon, and the condi tion of the country had in a great measure adapted itself to the system. Whatever might be their opi nion of these measures, if they had been for the first time proposed, they must now take them as they stood, and legislate with a proper regard to the exist ing system, considered in all its hearings and rela tions. The nature 'and object of that system evi dently had been . to bolster up particular descriptions o' a industry by variety of protecting regulations.— What was thistate of the legislatiott with respect to their woollens, their cottons, their Silks, their pot teries, and a variety of other manufactures that might be mentioned ? :Alt these had been encouraged by high protecting duties, which in some cases amounted elat'ott to a prohibition, so thit foreign Commodities of tile same description were almost en tirely excluded from the home market. While such had been the encouragement afforded- to these branches of industry, their Lordships would consider what would be the state of the agricultural interest if it were to be left without similar encouragement.— Under. such Circumstances, hot to protect the agsicultursi interest would be in reality to dis courage it.--t ilear, hear, haw q---and 'tie one,, he pl..sumed, would contend tha - t his . 'Species of industry ought to be direit'l iscoiiiaged S ao This - argument . 'a s . to the 'cy' of red.' . proms, protection slim", eer do o the ease of commeiceand ag . rileditft a in connection with each othir. It was a to considered, that one branclrosf agrikaiteral produce was already proteeted.• The importation of foreign cattle was prohibited, and if protection was to . loe afforded to any description of agricultural produce, he conceiv ed that the chief encouragement ought to be given to the production of grain. If their Lordships could alter the whole system upon which the country had hitherto acted, that was one view of the subject; but if it was impossible to alter it, or if it was thought expedient to continue rather than to encoan- ' t .6 the hazard and inconvenience of alteration now that the plan had been so long acted upon, their ' Lordships, he apprehended, must in justice afford protection to the agricultural industry of the coun try ; for he repeated that under such circumstances not to protect was to discourage. Ile had' said that the exceptions to the general principle ought to be as few as possible; and there were some who thought that whatever the exceptions might be, in other cases, the contester s :lot grails ought to be free and aurestrained : but so totally did he differ from that opinion, that even if an entire new system were to ' be adopied, he should say, that as far as respected the interests of the corn grower, and the navigation of the country, some protection ought 10 be given.-1 Though every other species of industry 'were left free and unrestrained, these, in his . opinion, ought to receive particular encouragement, if other countries acted on the lame system. Then, in looking at this] measure with a view to the commercial as well ssthe agricultural interests of the nation, he had been se duced to examine what had been the effect of the pa. !icy which had at di ff erent times been pursued by this , coltstry with respect to the subject now under consi deration. For nearly a century up to 1766 this had i been an exporting country, and from that time to the present period it had been an importing country. Their Lordships would keep in view, that during the fist period there existed a high protecting duty, amounting almost to a prohibltiOn of foreign impor tation. This bad been in a groat measure given up during the second period, or at least adopted in a very relaxed degree. He had looked at the conse quences which had followed from these different plans, with a view to the argument that an exporting country most be a poor country. He had examined ' as hailer, during the first period, our manufactures 1 and commerce had been declining; but, so far was that from being the case, that he found that the ma nufactures and commerce of the country had been !.,‘ advancing at a progressive' rate fully proportioned to i the progress and flourishing state of agricultural in- .. clustry. ttlear, hear, hear 1 1 From the period of, the Revolution to 1750 our commerce had trebled ; and our exports of manufactures daring the same pe ' riod had increased from four millions to twelve mil- i Boos ; and from 1750 to 1758, to fourteen millions. ; The population, too, had greatly increased, as well as our navigation and commerce ; and this, too, &ring periods when the national debt, and taxes, in proportion to the resources of the country, were, perli.i; s, as heavy as tliet were at the time when he was speaking. If, then, this system had had the effect of discouraging our commerce and manufac tures, the question would have been, whether it was a eke and proper line of policy to afford this pro. tidiou to the agricultural industry of the country,' at the expence of impoverishing the nation in other respects. But, whets it appeared that in those times, whet the strongest protection was given to the auk- cultural interests of the country, all other descrip- 1 tit,us of industry were proportionally flourishing, there was no longer room for the question, whether nue description of industry ought to be encouraged 1 at the expence of another; for it clearly appeared, that it was placed beyond a doubt, th;lt the protec tion of 'the agricultural interest was perfectly com patible with a due regard to the prosperity of the manufacturing and commercial interests. If there was one principle more authentic than another, it wig that by .which eq,oel prices were sought for.---'-.. Fluctuation wet' the4reat mischief. 'Psicei at one' tTine high, atenotherTow, were time Mint dishearten ing evil that timid occur to a comianntiy like tha t or zs g iatiti... The great problem hid' arSysiJs been 'to inthe ~ invislize prlces. 'aranariell wire among 'etre dieg : bet they were f oun d inapplicable upon the. I , Visi stale of modern wants and poPulition ; and It Iced long beets decided, that the hest resource was in toe regular industry of the country. Human sub. 'TIE STATESMAN. . __... expressos • 4' ••I`. . W . . sisteuce • (Lee, .k j eyondoll * doable safely ,Left 40.-11) e r seiaisestetee evere,, rket, thou. 4tegett e lleorkman's ,awaited the result, determined his mincl: o on e the sub. I:misty eleefeteivideafitilereste% where theve woe no Wel wages'ißellie3i76deand there they t, be had 'for )rict. terfetence d e la wow other :pates of industry. 'lf 3dea day. e -tifier; 4 l/ear!]-TeirNiew was confirm . Lord GII.ENVILLE.-" My Lords, although there be one such how, there must be more. tf• you: ed in other polies. A Report was lately made to the opinion which I thought it my duty omit giving agriculture an equal protection, you not the Government of France by a Member of the . 4lte- this subject, when it first came to my knowledge, merely neglect, you tikcourace. Ira should touch' cutlet', and a meaelleefeeilded on it, Which certainly..that it was intended to impose new and extensive -4 ibat lightly on the history. In 1791, a very rela ted 'to his conception seemed unwise; but the Repert , restraints on the importati on of ,gcaies, still- re. system prevailed, and a Bill on the eiutteecteof Hie' coitsieed: the piicei'of corn for weeensidereblee pee mains unehangede . e4 can t eritlf - Kent •trbthe - e s . agriculture was brought in. This was followed in riod. It . appeared - .that from 1756. to 17e8,.the sure your .Lordships,, that I have not.saffered th e 1813c2 by another Bele which fixed the import price average price of coritin France was 255. 10d.-The strength of the impressions I then felt, to det er . et 655. He was not, under circumstances, to take average since was 50s. With us,- during the same mine me from using 'my best exertions - to e w orn , ~a part in the discussi o n when the Bill was passed.- thirty-two years the average, ices 425. Thus the pro- myself fully on 'the Meesure, and to ientoves , every When the second came, h e a ppr o ved of its princi. tecti n g price of corn bore nearly the same value to doubt Which suggested - itself , to my mind. -Although ple ; but there were some reasons on . the opposite that of France at the, present period as during the I . could not, my Lords, consistently' with my s e mi side which appeared ea eitn of impottance, of more thirty-two years; in other words, we wereethen lye feelings'. o) this subject, feebler froth *Nal, on then than since. It had appeared tp him, that Eng- 'int Under the same disadvantage of dearness 'with re- the Gilt opportunity, my decided conviction of land was too much occupied with manufacture to be ference to France.-asewe .are now,, and yo it was the infinite mischiefs which would be produced b y capable of becoming a great corn country: bur dyeing those thirty-two years that 'the cotton and the adoption of, any such project as that now. is ' there was then no free intercourse with Ireland,e-:. other menufacteres had risen to their'presentligour. coritemplation-still I Conceived •It to be my duty Her capabilities.were not taken bite account •in the He would contemetbat there was no evidence to con- to give the subject the most Wended considerate * . argument. The . prr;sent seeming of Ireland, the nett lite injury :of • those. establishments with the I was the more powerfully. impressed with the ne . experience bf her productiveness, altered the toes- i dearness of bread. - Aft writers agreed that capital, cessity of this proceeding, when I OnderstoOd e and tion. Since theteshe had become a great corn cowl, credit, and fuel, were the nerve; and sinews of ma- with grief 1 learned the . fact, 'thet the measure wa s try. It seemed es that there was'o ammust, of coelf nufactures. At the examination of witnesses at their I not merely supported by the opinions et a few in. which might nut be•obtaimel frees, fare by limply ele. fiber on the Orders In Connell,' the strongest evidence I dividwils (respettable, undoubtedly, is cher s et ee lowing the natural flow of cepitat there. But tunnel *as given in favour of the argument which he now i and talent), but that it was *stapled by the &e nv . ingeti France or Flitelte se there egiiidebeene eliMpe e L used. He did not doubt, of course, that the eel. j tire Government of the .country, as a project p r o. tition. Eveu in the . a rtiole Al triesitsethe transit 1 deuce might have been strained and exaggerated by ! per to be carried into effect by the Legislature. My . was cheaper and easier from their . ports than/roe ; the natural prejudices and desires of the witnesses : Lords, the time, from the moment• that disclosers Ireland, or from many ports of Etielatid 'Moll-Bose but .still he had a right to use it to the extent of its I was Made, to the present hoer, was extremely short; I ton, for instance. It oligliebesside why not get it :endue. When, in answer to their conceptions of the I and I regret it, because, although I gave the sub. as cheap as you can, and where you can? Well, progress of American manufactures, it was urged eject every attention in my power, the period .wattetot . but are you always sure of geftiog it from France , that the dearness of labour might form a counter,. sufficiently prolonged, to ei.able 'me ere examine 0 , or' Flanders ? Now .we give up a certainty for an poise, they seemed to think nothing of it ;in short,• tisfacterily the 'lees of those whit., AnilpOr t t tile Mai • uncertainty. Would those foreign countries stand to consider the rate of weiel as a trivial obstacle.-e • sure, nd to investigate fully the greetude on which • by us in a year of scarcity ? It was no question This' he had a right to, apply to his,own argument. their opinion is built ; for . your, Loiebbips mast settee between the, productiveness or profit of England- and But if sufferings were ever to be weighed, there was that, in proceeding with, a tliscuseicie of - this nature, ft:eland 9 but were we to be independent or not of certainty one class ' most peculiarly entitled to shell. , much depends on the - facility with .whielt : we n o ' foreiguets?. A Nettle Earl had asked what good. Lordships' protection. Not that he would say that' :met Imo:selves of the evidence that hid beesiteeit i ! does this do to the English land-owner? It was any one class was to be protected to the injury of the :and which must necessarily be referred to, iodo. II eat *done fop the * English land-owner,..bet tor the. resee but that eene of which he spoke was not equal. •ciding,the just application of those ' principles tilde consumer : assek if he was. asked -whether . ' he weskit •ly ableerith °thereto vet forth. its claineirolie meant l ire said to form the basis of this measure. Sat o air support themeasose itiehefeceeifitsloavtlilegtfie in-' the egriculturel peer. - :It was a Metter of the high. Lords, whee I regret. the precipitatioa which lees I . crime of the English lantleownere and raising -dudes( est importance, however, that .their claims should ; marked the progress of this Bill-a precipitation, the Irish, 'he stitlewoukl• acswee -yeti l# It evade botany tried. Let ale House consider another in my opinion extremely %rubecosaing-let it dot learn cheap to' the . cOnsumei-. ! Ye ar /1. The grand: circumstance :-The price of ' bread influenced ,the'i be imagined, that. this regret is ceased by the ' quettion 'was, whether or no is this :system tcepro-e price of , labour in that class 5 and did they sup. ! operation of any new, doubt on my minde-or be. ' duce bread clieifetre that territory efe chose fruits. pose that the labouring people would prefer lower cause I have seen or heard on this, or any i you are secure ? • gnw al to the importing , price, he priced bread with the accompanying reduction former occasion, either within the walls of this ' knew that there had been much difference of opinion of wages ?-lle should next give a few words to House, or elsewhere, In the mass of enlightened, in., as to its standard. Otes.had found Its Advantage. ;• the supposed injury that was to be done to the me- : formation, which has been laid before the public-- 745. had found them. There was, however, no sub- tropolis. Nothing could be, less founded. It was any observation that goes to disturb the opinion I jest on which a dilleretwe of opibions might not be impossible that the interests of so large a portion of have always expressed. Not a doubt hat been ex. expected. The last standard sertiied later all'fb be the community should not meet anxious attention.-- . cited in my mind. On the contniry, any Lenti l my ' derivable from the averages. Fur elle list 10 years Erroneous ideas had been formed to a great extent . original opinion has been strengthened and confird, . the price of corn had been at 905.; for the last 20 on the subject. It was a common conceptions :fee 'es-and, more than all, by the speech which the Noble at 835.; it was lower in the last year, and • that , instance, that the price of bread might below in 'the; Earl has this day delivered. I shall apply myself to formed a certain kind of key to the import price. i country and high in London. The state and regu. I the grounds on which, I understand, from: slip high It likewise appeared from the papers on the table, ' lation of the assize might doubtless throw some shade authority, Of the Noble Earl, the measure late be that when Corn was sisal., the quieten), lest might 1 on"the question ; but with respect to one point of it _rested. leant glad that he has distinctly stated Wee be at a shilling.. •He shoutd not torn to combat. th. , -the price its the maritime districts -the papers no those groepds are-since I shall note' '•• M. eetrasegasit idea 'that had beim thrown out of its ' the table wetted thbvritilit the price' in those districts obliged to cast shone, as I before was, for . . .• being at 16d. The nature of the Bettie* might also was, On in eterege of ten years, higher alien in merits by which the measure is to be sopported...., admit of some advantageous 'regulation. On the Loudon ; finless ie. those times when there was as • The impression on my mind now is, thatehlsgrounds whole, and by what he could' collect from the docu. import of corn among them, and when they had the : advanced by the Noble Earl are utterly . *ilacioue- , meets on the table, and from the opinions of the first benefit of the market. But London had the that they qre utterlrinadeqoate, not only, to. the best informed men, the loaf would not be above a moat obvious advantages both in the abundant and . support a a measure of each extenfand importance shilling ; and that was considered, he believed, a the scarce years. Seated in the centre, of the wheat ' -but that they are utterly leadtglette be the levitate sufficiently low price. This must give encourage- countries, she not , merely supplied herself ee but . f e ed. of any measure slenderer. r ßg f , ereelpitati as theeiree meet to the agriculturist, but his object, was to giie • the nuiritimi districts ; and in years of scarcity and , seeding has been,. much as I have to lament elides. , the first advantage to the consumer. He was far import, her advantage* as a port almost constantly .. Bret the little time allowed fer digiussion on eine from saying or thinking that protection should be secured to her the cheapest corn from abroad, The ; subject, .stilt I have the eatisfaction of 'seeing that given to the English agriculturist over the Irish, or grand question to eirhich het-Wiest again istiert, was ' many of the groan& stated in support of tbr Bitt y the Irish over the English ; but he did not hesilale the independence of the empire on 'foreign corn.- if not in this House / at least in the *lie oda, are to acknowledge that he woold give it to both against ; This he considered as of the most signal - value. Take condemned as nugatory and improper. My Lordee e lt the foreigner.. Noble Lards seemed to consider this i a single example of the value of this independence : think that any man who looks to the Report of yew price of 80s. to •be it minimum, and that the corn - look to naval stores. In the last war, hemp, for Lordships'. Committee-who looks to the Report would immediately come close upon the price. One I instance, rose from 401. to 601. per ton : from the made elsewhere-who recollect, the discuseluns of Noble Lord (Grey) hod, however, softened down l , Peace of Tilsit it rose to 1001. We had it, it is ' lert year on this subject-or %Thebes seen the petelie. 1 his opinion on the subject and admitted, that withetroe, but at what a price ? The addition in this are 'cations of the eresent, would not be thought to a view to Ireland, the price might be mitigated in no I tide was about 200,0001., a suet of no . great eons,- ! have misrepresented or mistaken thri measure„ in any slight degree: . and there slits no doubt that the corn i i deration, indeed, in the general expense of stores; ' greet degee,' if he asserted, that the stress of thitir. of Ireland would be productive •of that effect. But i but what would it .be, if we were thus obliged to , gument in its. favour was laid principally on the tees. experience was totally against this theory of the mi. i purchase corn for the poor ? The process would be porary pressure by which the farmer was distretted-• nimunt. For 70 years, during which we , had a pro... just the same. Foreign Powers would give.or refuse and that to relieve this distress the present 'Bill was hibitory price, the corn never rose to it. The pro..' it, as suited th eir convenience. They would tax it brought forward . Now, my Lords, if I have fairly hibition saved the agriculture, for it saved its credit ;, for revenue ; and theiffect of all would be to make stated the grontid on which this measure has been, in it saved it from the want of confidence,aud trait ruin-a glut at . one time, .and aescarcity at another. As (reduced, I' should next take the libe r ty o f s t a ti ug , ous neAlect, which must have been I the to passing this Bill, there was no question between that you have no right to relieve any one class of the entrance of the foreign corn. During that whole I the evils of passing and got passing. Pass it, and its . tile community at the ex p ense , o f ano th er ; b u t period of 70 years, the impart price was always a operation would be discovered and remediable in a ; that you are bound to distribute eq ua l j us ti c e to maximum. He was surprised to hear the Noble! few months. Throw it out, and by destroying the., every rank and division of society. If, my Lords, Lord only on the later period, since the Continental confidence of 'the agriculturist,' fly eithdraWifig ca-' it were in your power to relieve a certain part of I troubles. In 1792 tki import price au 56,.; the pital, by letting land go oat of culture, you may.do ! the. COMMaaity from' distress (and no man more average was 4es. 11d.; rn 1793 it was 435. 1 Id.; is an injury not to be repaired in fifteen years. H. tally feeleaud regrets more than L do,• the extent of 1791, -15 s. Bd.; in 1795, 745. 14.; ip 1796, 773. Id.; was not to 'be answered by general mattime . en . the • the distress width this Bill is intended to remedy) in 1797, 535.; in 1798, kts. 311.; of •tbowileaes mischief of legislating on th os e ma tt ers . If (hewer& 1 Without throwing any additional burden o n an o ther there were but two iii which the price of Coro sese to was to be now begun, he was fully aware-of the class .of society, you would undoubtedly have a the import price ; bat e7OO. was a mereoribte yieir of danger; but as it stood nor, we must l eg i s l a t e . . AS. i legal right to support an alleviatory measure. Bet scarcity, and 1796, of course, had to sataie• its to the conception that the country was not equal : to . If, on the other hand, you do not entirely remove share of the misfortnee. But in theeese of grelend, l the. effort of drawing her resources from herself, he' the evil-it you merely shift the distress from one the lower taxes, the eve* of lahoir, the whole state, was not' inclined to despond in' any view te.. ethic!' body to another,-then ' my Lords, lam prepred to and condition .rtf the c . eoptry, made him coincide, such* Ft doubt could be applied.- In the war 'with the say, that the u n divid e d feeling. of this House should with the Noble Tenet's ,(Grey) idea, mid ,conceive Coloiiies, the cry was, that the dig n ity a n d ran k o f .g o al ong w i t h me ,. i n declaring, diet 'it measure, that the price could not by any probable means eft- England was set, and that she could toiler agaie !testing on euoli grounds, is unworthy of Wei appro. pronch the import price. The fell conviction on b o o to sustain her elation among the Powers of i bation. Whatever really are the grounds of this Bill,' mind; in conseqiielice of all this,, wiseetliat 4 fig. FAliope. • Yet we had seen her, since that,' rising to' lam rejoiced to thi n k th a t we are no t ca ll e d o p e n to big the priCe at 80s. they would bare corn cheaper at' a height*which she had never attained b e f ore , an d ; consider whether the interests of one clitts'ofetvple the long run. Ile now cenee eo an itnpOrtant part of I supporting a struggle formidable and 'severe beyond i are now entitled to relief that+ hose of anoihei. I aria the consideration,--the effect of the measure on the all in her hi s tory : Another feeling seemed to h av e P ' rejoiced to think that the.e r i nc i le of affording par- • manufacturing interest . 'lt . was stated, that by been , that commerce was alt in all • lie was among . t teal relief is de c id e dly disclaimed by the Noble I making the bread of higher price, foreigners would the last mon to tintlervatue commerce and colonial i Earl. And, instead of aiguitig that no such step bi enabled to undersell our mentifecturers. In .the connection; and yet, when the triel was mode, arid I should be taken by your L or d s hips, I h av e the Wise first place, he must say, tleit this came upon him it was a severe one, when England was attempted ; faction of expressing my hope, that it will be (Menet. With a new view of manufactures, and if that be to be proscritierl'frons the list of leoropean s nations, t IY understood, that no s u ch i n te n ti on h as eve r been had ever known any thing about them , their excel- she rose siipellier to (bottle!. The great commerc e : entertained in • this H o u se .. A p ro p osa l of this lence or cheapness had hut small dependence .on the of theecertry is to he fosind.isa her internal trade. i description should •be teceived, in any case, with price of bread. The injury was supposed to operate It i s w i se a n d bene fi cial that our strength should be r caution• and distrust-but more especially its a case, by raising top erice or iebour ; but he was extremely at borne. That - strength watilways beet•setured by ' where the persons called upon to decide the doubtful of • tfie effect or that injury. In all manu . equal laws. . Equal kw* for . the seeltialtorist, eiqual qgestion, were so inti m ately c onnec t e d, i n i n terest,. • elgri,tetnd vie laws lot-.the sattaufecturee. factures labeler was Wes,. l'he 'try The.gretteiletisiminess with those - whose c o mpl a ints we re t o be r ed r essed. , gour of manufacture spewed to live oe other things.i and vigneeint the commeeety must arise oaf of' the- We ,are, my Lords, to debate this questions ea He had been taught eci ,ceneider cemlit, eapitele wed. most regulated , imperrial, and b . estn . understood ' Pro- i•grOundi , of general policy. We are not to adman' fuel, the great sources efAeseeteleture e e,Cipilit,AD.l- tecliene He would now arouhle thine Lertishlps no it as tit effort to support and prop up one pare capita!, which we had e inleseperier, tie*st to tether fortinii:ehen to propose the'teading el the Bill • tieulaiipecies of interest in the country, We mes epentries, and an abendencteef 44 • ev*eb, rioemed e The Ifaii.of CARLlgeE,,i4 e a,sbort speech, op- ; not to examine it merely with respect to pretent. by the Leant, of, Proaid.in v :,4 .: qtajp a a-, posed (4,Aifte ate reading ortheilile. • Heeettertaitted ' circumstances - we are net 'to iiitestigate it only ly our Own,' . Breed wise IF daqltr i ,ar cbes,iderAle.doOts as to 114 414iialle 4; ' n'e l l ' and dues, with a view to 'the * enactment of preAsions ' apple + . t luring, piece,. The feet leas e tjeati' mere tinned w erAirets _ i % av; _. . hy , thagreater-part of, oalk4 to the present times-no, we ere to debate twee mel t; net cheep ,hr . feet r 1.010; - ' 1.111 , 4 W 7.- • -•-••• i • ' 'die question withereference to a tyitem et' etifereeel,, 1 ivict a qv . % Jreasll,, aim at; and when ry fouud that, t!ity fiite4 to4o&in i rar, tilishments without considioo of 'he pricangfpask Another source was the unrivalled skill and power of the British machinery. By that they wire ac tually in some articles enabled to andersallthe In themersitittal _ - - tonil,FOßTYNCUßtiotteet that the second read:' ing'nueit tivbh delayed ,;;,. ' great number of pet i tions that had been presented, the respectful terms in which they had been couched, and the peaceable and exemplary manner in whist' the petitioners . _ permanent, end, as we are told ; liberal polar , which is to produce the ireatest . possible !welt for she. whole mass of the community of this country. My Lords, I think there can be no man so destitute of C. lingarnoogst the Member of this noose, us not .~~. : . ~! I spe tit! vr i t oeiple nest with There !I with this to brer : t import'it look to.l try, and perinane factures litory P more col lion if -caries ahe It 4ew to 10 sail r 4