The Statesman. — London, England, 1819-06-08 00:00:00

TITE STATESMAN, the Crowe. It created three or fear leerstive sies tas, le every county through the kingdom. The. were the Dletethetwe of Stamps. the Re t ain,' o f Lied Tits sod Assessed Times; the chiefs of which departmeets always acted by deputy, and took • me *feeble tlesesselves, except signing rece i pts • for their Wades. Those Gentlemen's emoluments oinnented to diffeeent proportions, from 7001. up to or 60001. • peer. Thew employments were not to be roasidered as freeholds or tenures for life, end instead of suck enormees emoluments, many elSeient persons might be found, if not the persons grow in oboes employments, who would be well satisfied to do the dirty et solar* from 4001. to 1001. a year, by which one-half or two.thirds of the present ea rwig by poundage might be saved to the country.-- There were various oilier branches in the details of Retenee Collection, wherein important seviegs might he effected, if his Majesty's Ministers were honestly inclined to do their dui) ; end Nothing should hove tempted him to trespass on the attention of the House by going into tech details at the present moineat, but for the defiance held out from the opposite side -of the House, as if himself and his friends were mere lava of words and paper without soy real (friends for their representitions. All lases ought to undergo a dimiestion which might be In some proportion to the distiaation of prices for our ineoufaciares and pro. deco. For until the currency of the country shall have reached some point of stability, it was impost'. hie for the Legislitare accurately to know what es& to he dee*. Bet in one point his opinion was settled, and ho was sere it was riot angular, namely. that he should never met satisfied until be should see a gegenl reduction of salaries and sinecures, and the taxes clutch supported them, to which, he was sere, was owing the rite ow all the Necessaries of life.— Bet could be hope this from the lion. Gesttlessen opposite ?—No ; they might beat up for recruits inneagst the 360 Gentlemen of that Hesse oho sup. portal them by their votes on a recent occasion.— They might talk as they pleased, bet they dared sot attempt the system of retrenchment which their ditty to their country demanded. For, in attempting such a system, they dared not face theft own conferees in office; they were not in possessine of the love and affection of the country, latch could support them in seek as attempt, until their conduct should entitle them to look to the c oo . ideoce of the osentry. lie warned the filuLle Lord not to droved epee the seeeess of one gentian on a former night. The Noble Lnrd would be grossly disappointed if be Imagined those Geatimeen, who supported him by their votes on the °cession he al luded to, would consider themielve, bound by that vote to follow blot through his whole course. He 'would ask ever one of those Gentlemen—he would ask the Noble Lord himself--whether he tbneght the People of this country were able I. pity more taxes than were already imposed se them? or whether to add to their berates it the 'Meet proposed was any thing short of cruelty and injustice? W' ether there was any fair ground of teasou to justify such Niftier's, and whether flatting eurcemetartees did not rather forbid than recisions,' such it cosset?? What had the No. ills Lewd to support him Its the necessity of the OM- Mr bet • prateirow assertion that there most he • Sinking Fend of Liss milliees, sad test this sum must, at all hazards, be wrung from the People ? Did he recollee* that Mr. Pitt, who was the permit of the Sinking Feed, which was to effect swell miracles in reducing the debt of the Pantry, did not think it necessary to propose seep a sum, bet rieneidined 300,0001. soffit-I.ot ender ' m debt of M 10,000,0001? He contended that this sum would ho quite 'efficient to give an adequate Seeking Fred for the debt. Thu Right Hon. Gent. had contemplated a feCOMPIIte to the leonine Tax, in ewe of any mew war ; bat the only made to ren der sects • reenreence effective, and enable the town. try to bear the burden, would he to relieve it from lasation as leech as possible in time of puce, mad thus amble the People to recruit their means by en embarrassed industry. The Right lion. Gentler's.. well loww there were many taxes imposed dyeing the' we,, god still resisting, which, so far from inereasing, ale only decreased It s revenue, bet lessened mate Celle the consumption of th.• artiel•-• on which thee were impend, to the great injury of commerce end manufactures. Such were tie tases on win,, tee, glum, sod some other articles he could enumerate He begged to apologize for thus long uletrounin 4 Hesse, hot he fel , it his duty to Mc -en , anent Me. HUslilS:‹lN Nid, his Right Ilon. Friend (the Ctianc, ler of the &chequer) hail felt it hi. dimly, before he brought forward his Resolutions, to Ivy before the Horse a fair and explicit statement of the situation of the country, in order to show the in dispeneible necessity of calling for further rapport ; end he (Mr. H) indulged the hope, that after so fair sod candid as explaoetion of that necessity, Geniti ves •• ell aides, ;adored's , of all party feeliegs, •teidd have eketsfelle eeecurred in sepportlog wet been candidly propoeed ow the ground of indispon sib!, seeeesity, ent•ithileseliog the hostilire le fry sight otherwise eittortsito lathe pretest, or sty other set of Ministers placed in the like eireemsi•new, end whether the Beard of Admiralty coneirwl of Ave •r seven Member,. It was in vain 'n 'steels to conceal the disadvantages which this proceeding would pro. dwells the present situation of th•coso•rv, at loam m it was recommended by the Right Her. Gentle. ma. The some Hon. Member, he well remembered, 'seer three years ago had esproced his warm sp. potation of the stplication of the Sinking Fend to the tempest of the debt, yet why now endear-or, by •diliweet course, to alter is applice lien ?—Pressia, Rim". Austria, and the Gaited States of Americo, bed web placed their Revenues In such siteatioos, list they were really advaistaget to the State by its operations. Fiance also, with whom F.nglaad en awe at poste, which he wish. d leech would loss trains', set sate this years new Sinking Fund,. n Ito prieciple of Mr. Pitt. for the liquidation of the debt of that ceuetry, amounting to 17U at tie me of one per cent. ; that ie. 1.70C,000:. II " , by the Minister of that reentry *pro. prided for a Sinking Feed.— He coold stale to the Climatic's., sod to it he berried portico ler attention, what °routed sluice lout islet's* to torpies of the Consolidated Fuoti. For ten t erm to that period, the surplus stookin..J to 3, 5 4 14,001 N. seesilly, and as • proof ef his reason i'lise that point, he 'errata to the A 11 4(11,1140°0 Ac t Pled every year. Taking the two list as the steoclard of the your which the country Ca. to es• pert after peace, what was the event ?—lnstead of the I surples, there had be en a nectis i ty f or so . application of the Governeseet to the Blink, for assist' tree towards paying thecreditors of ti' Public. By the consolidation of the Exchequer of Ireland with that cf Eaglaed, a debt had been incurred by this country, in consequence of the poverty of Irelsod, of 1.880,9001. lly, for the liqui dation of which, as well es of the slim of 2,174,0001 which became dee each your on the Consolidated Fend of this country, Parliament was hound by the good faith of the country to provide. These two see., it was OhliOlit to every Gentleman, exceeded the surplus of the re. vogue, end thus the public creditor was placed under the coattail of the Bank, a mestere which he highly deprecated hi future. In 1783, when there was no Sinking Feed, after the ertoclution of the Ame rican war, a great statesman was placed at the head of the Gasses department in this country. In 1792, this greet men was enabled by his excellent measures to propose a remittance of sayings taxes, which would have been effected bet for the brerking forth of the enfortenste Revolution in Fiume. The taxes remit ted by Mr. Pitt were in the irst place so Assessed Tax on female servants; secondly, so Assessed Tat of carts and waggons ; thirdly, an Assessed Tax which he ardently hoped would be never renewed, although it amounted to seven millions, open cottages; sod fourthly, a tat of a halfpenny per poend on tallow candles. The reentry was at present le difficelties, so it was in 1783, at that time it was smarting under the consequences of an unfortunate war termiested by as ignominious peace, it was now triumphant from a successful war and a glorious peace; its finances in 1783 had been embarrassed, but by divot measures, they were retrieved and placed to proper state ; tech also at the present time would be the result, if measures equally appropriate were 'suc tioned. The resumption of Cash Pasmentv, for which prevision was everyday making, together with an 'Silent Sinking Fend, seemed to him 'efficient to realise his highest expectation', by producing goal results to the country. Ile knew no other leel.imate mode of procuring these wisned.for results, than the payment of tat by the capital of the country; in the dedication of a portion of individual wraith to the exigencies of the State. This united to a diminished espenditure, and to industry end ports. would soon bring the country to a state of prosprrity. Ile was desirous of .oeiog a Sinking Fund established, so es to allow one per cent. ott the debt rf the country, end that it should be carried en according t., the Act of 1792. Since th• establish. merit of peace taxes had been remitted to the Penile, amounting to 19 milNons, and it could not be avid that it was impossible to bear • slight hoiden after the removal of so great a load. The lion. and Learned Gent. had said that one million could be saved to the country by 'canna), that is, by the shanties of the Board of Customs. end by placing the collection of the taxes under the regulation of the Facies.— Tbe absutdity of the plait could net bet be oboists 'to every Member, he' the lion. Member. Equally incompatible wi-h practice was the system witscn he uodost.orresi to h•ve pet tote execution, respecting the redaction of the selaries of the Collectors, wbkh he denominated sitiocuret, as they viseeeded some times 4..001 per annum. The Hootterable aid Learned Getitlinosn would have dose well to have studied the facts before be mode his statement. He could safely answer for toe titamp Collectors, that they were endow great rerweemhility, sad of course their alarm not ton great. He regretted that he lied so long *revolted on Inc Canimittee, end espressini his Congo. lion that the sdoptinis of the Resolutions would he pratert,re -4 beneficial consegeences, Mr. BROUGHAM explained. Mr. J. IL Sidi 111 agreed in the propriety of ten. &tint the surplus of the lead opplieshle to the lie qeidstion of the debt. - Mon seemed to him be tn ties of reirenrhrnear es mentioned by his lion. I'.ies.d, in the collecting of the revenue, and in tie roper reeeisting of he army. li•fore net, tales • Geld I. levied, Commissioners ought to be sp. 'tinted by Pastier , cot for investigating into, and re porting their opinions on, the expenditure of the pre. tent luxe.. Mr. ( CALVERT rose, amid loud cries of Qqestion! protect sitarist the o.i lions geode b) the Right llou. Member who proposed the Reso lutions r•lative to the hrosters; be was net prepared to meet hire pith calca'atinris, bet he irloclarpd his total disagreement tt nil r o. evrvi ti no ,...4l, eu d cries of (beams and 'Padres! followed.] After some delay. Mr. St:M(l.En' obesilied the attention of the Committee. He conceive.' that the question might I be viewed undertwo lights. first, as to the necessity of levying three millions of new ism; and mend, as to the propriety of lorrog them et the present time. to relation to the first point. the revenge wes said I to bate a:resided the eipenditese by two mud the coonery was said so have she means of en. joying • permanent peace, where then was the no ' cat.ity of levying these teats ? But it might be said, the People are able to pay flesh lat..; they are digitises of psyisg them, on account of the dovish ling state of the country. Of the 'diastases of a I • %nails, Feed in time of war, as contributing to I keep op the price of Stocks ha had no doubt, bet its utility in time of peace seemed to him proble matical. 11e would oat eater into the Wag his. lory of the Skokie( Feed, se dmsiled by the Right Hoe. Gentleman, bet be would remind him of seam alc ca mstances which be mewed to have forgetten, respecting the coudect of the vest Statesmee whom he bad so bights praised, wed who it could wet be denied was • most escellent finsucier. Mr. Pitt bad in his Bill regulated that when the Sitsitino Feud should outspent to four millions it should be brought before l's filament. Fee what lessons? The Sink ing Folio was dreaded es affording a means of in. creasing each the espeorlitere of the coontry, end when it should he,e eseeeded the sem of four mil. lions, the Aet which established it, required the in terference of Parliament for its future regulation. tase.ths it unworthy of • great body, assembled to deili• erste most solemnly on in import. sat sohjsct, to hear a tissue of observations respect ing the opinie• s of an lion. Member some years ago, instead a r.,..binents to induce conviction. Whet argument had been aildeced to show the metes oily of three minions of an taus: loe said rots' hurl already Cot millions of a 'septet shove your or. pendit•re—then why ask for three millions, more than four or Mee, nr •we miter number? It was a mere arbitrary choke, and no reason whatever had been assigned for it; het one general Minn o. 4 ;tn. ed by the Right lion. Gentleman, by the Noble Lord, and those around him, although submit:a vote way eis &obi he w hispered in each other's ears, , for what reason did the Government look for the par. tinier sem of three ? The truth was,the Noble Lord(Cestlereagh) and his colleseua, judging by the late vote an what ground they stood, bad imbed for thu tbreereillions. They did net say the People could afford to pay them; they did not say how they were rendered necessary; to what use they would be applied : bet they trusted to those who then supported them, and said to them, " We rely oe year joining les in this vote weight ; we pot it us a test of our malarity, that must fall if yeas desert es ; sod upon that vote ha felt conficket they depended fur the do. mend they had just made. Ho took it as a postulate 'that they bad two millions over their imputes, for 'they had so stated it : then why not pet that two millions by, as an accumulating fend, or lay oat the two millions annually le redeem the public debt as far as it would go, and thereby serve the very purpose for which, amongst other', it had lbeee called for ? The debt they owed was nothing elite but the taxes they paid, mud it was nothing but delusion to talk of the woode-fel properties of the •Sinktng Feed. The Right Honourable Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Entities/0 bed said, we Auld husband our renames and economise our es. 'wedelns; bet he hod discovered a new method of doing so—in forcing money from the people's pockets. A great deal had been said shoot the Consolidated Fond, bet Its importance hennas lessened, when it was discovered that the Sinking Food was charged open It. Hanover heard of a ceentry being enriched , by taxes, althoegh it was not a very unusual mistake to take an increase of lazes as a proof of wealth. When be looked at ite state of the times, at the sufferings of the poor, the wages of labeler enable to 'support the labourer or mechanic, after foot years of peace, taus exorbitant. the lanced interest supports leg a 'Asper pepolstios, and the real estate careen Gentleman lessened in competence of tales full 10 per cent., Or twice as much as the Property Tat re. pralerl, be could not see bow the Ministers of the ' country resold possibly tome forward end seek to add to I the calamities that stared every man fell.frented in the face. Honeseity Abetted it as much es sound policy, and a regard for the People's Wryest condemned it. That Use time of making the demand was particularly enfavesrable was bet too true, and new tales would only serve to keep it so. A cheap of currency was always alluded with corresponding effects upon the ceentry to *Lich it might take place, bet any de pression momeutarily produced would be more than amply compensated by the benefits that always fol lowed io its train. The Committee, however, was then called open to say they thought three millions of fresh taxes necessary, at the very moment when the Government said they had two millions above the event..s of the country.-4 Hear, hear!]—lie did I not consider such a sere to Ica et all necessary, or if necessary, he did not think the condition of the I country such as to noble It to pay it. He spier.. gi,ed to the Committee for baying so inn Blinded upon them, bet Ire frosted the People's interests! • areitld not be neglected, that their sufferings would Ibe pitied, not increased ; and that he might not In.' weak them, end discharge hi, duty faithfully to the empire, he would most cordially vote egaiust theit being granted. Mr. BANK ES could hot account far the new light that had broken in on the mind of the last Learned Speaker; aed he wan sorry, with such teepee for him, that he could not become a convert to his opi.l mons The Learned Gentleman had gild, the Sink- ing Fowl was unavailable, especially in a time of l peace; bet Pitt and For, and Sheridan, and the Right 'lnimitable Gentleman, Mr. Tierney, who knew tint Ileum of the country as well as any other. man in or out of the Hoes., had all advocated its utility. It was the main source that enabled Ones to get oat of the contest with such triumph and such glory ; bet be feared, in .6,4 they had two millions of so rples,that they were reckoning too fast, and Int should he glad if it were realised. At lbe time of tha American wee they bad not roe million surplus, even if the circumstances of that time bore any analogy to the present. Then the debt was 410 milling, now il l wag SOO, and the proportion of surplus being now required to be five millions, was any thing but an. fair. The three millions to be obtained would go as a redeeming sum, and though it might press some what heavily at the present period, its consequences would ultimately tend to the national relief at the proper season. The Ministers were forced to risk the unpopularity of the act in thileische.ge of their duty, and he regretted that any eatery should have been raised by a Right lion. Gentleman. who had always praised the utility of the Sinking Fend. It was said we were at peace,—true, but who could guarantee it ? Even Mr. Pitt had predicted a peace to last ten or fifteen years, bet almost immediately after his prediction, ensued the most 'Minting war tbut ever occurred in England. They had an enemy at home which should be put down,--am immense debt ; and though they bad a peen abroad, he con ceived the present measure essential to the interests awl the safety of the Empire.—The cries of Ques tion f were here very general, and strangers were or dered to withdraw, when, Mr. CANNING began by rspressiog his regret that the Right lion. Gentleman was not In his place, as he should have beta glad, before he pro. ceridod, to know how ha intended to word his routine in point of (nrm.—[ ir. Rrogden here slated, that Mr. Tierney had withdraws his ioformal notice of the previews goestinn for the more regular nne, that the Chairman do lease the Choir.]—Well, thew, nig so. lion in sibilance seemed to b. to postpone or mice llee the proceedings of the Committee. Of one thing he (Mr. Caroni. g) 1184 ennfidently doer, that the °lily certain way in which the Committee could an its duty to the country was not to depot wi.hoot cnrning Insome tlefiniueonelesion.—(lleer,ketrrn There might be two or mare nodes of relieving the distresses of ihe country, brit this monde adopted by Abe Right Hon. Gentleman of calling for s Corneille. in order to record the argent wants of the slate, end !then to deny Ministers the means of obtoisnog any 'lliKaatien of a peslible retrwly, trn of all others the most esirseagert end •nintellisiUle. II • liinisiry hail +OA so with respect In •n opposition, that would b• bed enough; bet in • rsi..h•ls!e fnr !Ministry, who valued himself (eremitism' his (unh orse end sincerity, who wet ■ll risennese find disinte►estedness—(4 lough) --loch a proceeding was the moss whimsically contrsdictory diet hid ever heen engend^red by the Is' •nrlpringe of pert) spirit. (Loyd cheering) -The linear find • right io call upon him to artist the pion now p•np•sai. •r t• snippet some asMtis•le; et any rate, if he left the engoiry allososiber, the floe* Lod • right to My In hi% Your despond for inveeli.t•vi , n bolt spree( from mere idle cariosity; and r r Pena ■ny patriotic wish to remedy the evil.' Sep. pose the Ministers had not laid their rate Noy and folly before the Commitsee, what would the Op position base said then? Weald sot each man in his district, mod all their trumpeters throoghnot riso kingdom, have (Inferred as w ith esclamati sus, fl Why we re w e not chosen Ministers; how different things would have boob if we bed g d the country 1— Then you shield have knows your incest room to the lowest site—then we would have exposed the utter hopelessness of your fIIMICIN eed then we would have left you precisely as you were." Absurd es this was, it was a fair representation of the conduct of the ether side of the Ilona His llnneera►le ■nd ',versed Friend on the ether side (Mr. Scar. lett) bad ••pressed hidterlf with some indignation, as if Ministers bed brought forward this plan to night is the mem Insolesee of triumph, on ac. count of their majority on • lase versosno ; bat be could Mere his learned Friend, and this not on the mere word of a Minister, but the honour of man, they it was not mere bravado to say, that the strength of the Administration distinctly rested on this goes. lion. They were perfectly convinced that the mea sure sow proposed was obsoletely necessary for the safety end prosperity of the country ; and Irvine In convinced, the same motive which induced them to bring it forward, and especially is a season of die tr•ss like the present, must forte them to leave their plains soles• thee carried it. It •oeld have bees much b►tter for the ;Appose of the WO Hon. Gentleman to hove met this proposition wish a direct emotive; because then, if his uppo•ltioo had been seccesafel, it vroeld have carried with it en impres tioo of the incapacity of Ministers, as Impression which t►e Right Hon. Gentleman was an anxious to evoke en the public 'shod. The choice would 'hes have been between the present Adininistrotioe, with three millions of additional tsars, sod as Administre• Lion composed of the Gentlemen opposite without any new rages; and thus something wield have bees thrown into the scale on their side. The H. lost knew, when Gentlemen came into power from he other side, on what sweeping principles they acted; and he thought it not improbable that if see` a change were to take place, those who were nee satiated with three millions of fazes, might hear a propositios for ralaing No millions. The Right Honourable Countries shield rather has• said that be would bete no taste as all, and then as a non-Ming Minister he might ban had some claim to popularity. The Rt. Hoe. Geotlemen feeling himself pressed by his conscience to say something aboat re• trenchment, had gives it as his opinion that • saving of one million might be effected by • system if eft. ninny in every department of the espenditere; bet although a variety of measures for the riniettion of the expenditure had been discussed, he could sot see any thing approaching nearly to one million in alt the proposes+ for ret►encsuornt which had been made by the Gentlemen opposite. Bat all the subjects had been- lately before the Hoes., had been thoroughly rehearsed, awl although some Gentlemen objected to items he,. and there, yes none of them ever diem' of lemming them by • million. Full many a 6.. tS.I. had nal doubt, been foetid erroneous; but •till so one had ever beard of any thing like a million. Bat the Right Hon. Gent. might say,w bile yes accuse me of not specifying how you might economise, did I nut propose to ys to recluses two Lords of the Admiralty—good—for 40001. and that the duties of the then Secretary of Stale should devolve on the other two—eye, that Is 60001. more—an aggregate, therefore, of 8000 i.; bet still there remained 99 4 1,0001. before the million meld be made oat.—[Hear! and a latteh.]-1116 Lay Lords, however, and the third Secretary of State, seemed to be as sentinels placed round th• tentpart of retrenchment, and the Right Honourable Gentle. man not being able to get then net of the way, could not of course get Into the citadel. Beside 300 gagers were in the way, and he should first get over them, as at eaotherThernsopylse, before the citadel would yield; hut not succeeding so far, he was obliged to lase•ut his . seal bed not been answered by his rappel's' sucrose. Ile was not competent to discuss the principle of a borrowing Sinking Fund ; but he was convinced et the necessity of an absolute surplus to do the business of such a fend. Ile was bound to give every Member of that 'loose credit for rectitude of motives ; but if be had at on earlier part of the Session accosoci the Right Hoe. Gentleman of that inconsistency of p►in. eiple of which, ore his own confession, he now stood convicted— Mr. CALCR AFT here rem In order. He could sot listen in silence io the fool, offensive, and almost oope►liamentary aspersions which the Hight lion. Gentl•msn had pined on Ms Right lion. Friend, ea himself, and on all hie friends around him. In the course of his eaperience in that Hone, he ha►dly recollected basing ever hand such wi.parliamentary language as that in which the Right Hun. Gentleman began his speech. His Hob. Friends had all stated that 4.. e country was at prevent in such II si.oation Ithat it could not boar any additional intation ; they said. that they and Meer fr.erids were not Jpinst tuation, but that they whited the menace In be postponed. And was there any thing •, shocking in to warrant the mullets which had been ora -1 plied lay the Right (i olit t ooms ?—[sdoer, I roe!) I —epithet?' * *Lit :I. if not uni.•''iasaen: try, ww• • at lest an Uncivil, that they ought not to 1• awe Awes used in .hb•'e . • Sir CA N XING her• Interrupted the iluweu►. able Centlem.n. lie tho.ght that i. defeat.laWl was tnlera'.ly fear room to givo and to tab; eed wheuo•.r •hu terms `• indecent" end w afro. w•," which had been opplied to this repent, were r e . Grtrpitanc,ll;eei.e,de., ititiervicipb,roabb:ril,4orta.Lit iipil.pleiriiled.ednc,reerrhiohteel:7olresm.dareitchitrAo.nvr elcrialiir . .4