The Statesman. — London, England, 1819-06-09 00:00:00

- doe ; that ;smarms fraitb a fear of en Etelsequer orrice» keine hotrod, wore obliaod to sake then with ivost inconv►nience before, lo point of law, !hay mould b. called on for than'. lie had asked a ques tion on this •object Wore, and was Ikon (as we kn floral...4aq informed, that if Arch prank's did cilia, a step would be pat to chess. 11. near emierstood, that the !MP praotiro was adopted. lb, held in his bawl a ropy Of one,•f thew notices, f.oin a Siert/tint of TIIIIO7 lit Edinburgh, calling upon a person I. Ms eh to pay the tsars +hick In fact woad not be flee tilt Wiat.entide. He hoped the Right floe. T:entlemati would be abb. to &ford the Homo some infrroortines open this aahjoet., T . eCIIANCELLOR et the EXCHEQUER Rave snap es, •onstinn, bat from tiro vary low tone in bieb be spoke if was dificalt earn to hear his voice in the taller,. From the •eply of Mr. Brosighswi, ne •apposed him in have said, that it was important to the ....nee that it thould be collected as speedily possible. Mr 11110UOIIAM remarked, that the system of early e.ll.rtion was what he pinch's'', objected to, ..•J 1., which t.. was ermines that an end shoold be •put. roalion alropp•4l. Sir J. NEWPORT moved for a Return of the ofil vbil vs.u• 4 • ••.levy of articles, such as Cotton, Cnitrin. oi. , Car/lairs, &c. imported into Ireland from (lie° Britain in the last 6ire years.—Ordered. O. lb. motion of Mr. F. ROBINSON. WY* wet Riven to bring in a Bill to amend the Act 65 Geo. 111. c. GO. respecting S►amen's Wills. Mr. Alderman WOOD presented a Petition fry.. a (a . ..aileron. named W. H. Inglis, against the [Mires providing for the resorption of Cub Payment.. The Petitioner, he observed, described the Bill as ono vt bi^h tended equally to involve hietsslf and miter tnerrhanis in rein, and he ;wapiti to be heard by his. self or Counsel. at timber of the Neese against It. M•. GRENFELL wished to know whether It was inevooed to follow op the Petition, be moving that lb. Petitioner be called to the bar ?--To this nn l u•agi.en —The Petition was brought up, sod or. error' to lie OP the table. Mr. Aldermen WOOD torinaafrd a Pstitien from a somber of Protestant Dissenters in London and Westminster, complaining of the Marriage Act, as far 44 it required as anent to din docttino of the Trinity.—Laid no the tablo. FINANCE REAOLUTIONII. On oho motion of the CHANCELLOR of the VCCHF.QUER, Mr. Brogden brought op the Ito. pore OA" Committee on those Restitutions. O n th• Chet they he agreed to, Mr. CUB WEN rose. 'lle did not mean to ab ject that some tneasetea for proaiding for data dr. Ociency of income should be adopted. After all the Petitions which bad poured in from trades, parts of the 4-wintry, describing the gene►al distress and stagnation, could they (the Ministers) be ignorant of the teal situation of the errantry ? Ought they not In .0.4. that ail was not a lime for laying on any new lases? . 1 be 0 0 ite of labour were reduced one.third in con sequence of the decrease in the consemption and the •aloe of our manufactures. In tbe city of Carlisle alone, there were not lees than 4000 pet son, who, by the itardeat lahour of 14 hoer. per day, could not earn mote than s+. 9.1. per week.—[/fray, hear!) — The situation of many other parts of the country was titit much better. Tim Malt Tas he condemn►d, as trotting rt. electrum the use of malt liquor. By that en Wool, he was of opinion, that a ma terial injury would be done to a very Important branch of our manufacture. The effect of both would he to create porter 'mils in the country than t►ose which they were intended to lamest. Could any man look al the present situation of our reveal*, end see the many aimless situations which were paid for wide- the bead of its collection, and say that the economy was obsersed by Missiaters which the dis tresses of the nation 'Toadied ? Collectors with large sslarsea. mid whose duties were performed by Dive. sirs, were kept op, in order to support the patronage of Government, and the People were pressed to thei► Isst ferthing to torpors this unnecessary errors. wee. Ile most ORCO mo►e repeat big decided tippet. siting to the liesolations of the Committee. Sir HENRY PARNELL contended, in appeal. lieu to what had !wen advanced by the Noble Lord, that the pemegi Resolutions were a perfect departs'. `from the inaneiti system of Mr. Fiat. Ile believed that lo the sec, the system of expearlitere had been carried to a /reeler extent than the ezigencim of the war required. Several twillinns a year weep unneces sarily welted. In the Ordnance Deportment, for instant", nine millions of money had been wasted in works which had never been applied to any use. If the Hesse bad not interfered, and repealed the Property Tag, they would never have seen any of those retrenchments, for which the Noble Lord 'took enolit Cries of Mar, hear !)—Wbethrr the reductions could be carried farther was • question of some difficsity.—Without the .cri. of a considerable degree of the patronage cf the Crown, it was vain to raped any farther restriction ; bet the state of the country required a more 'eternise sacrifice of patronage, and a greater innovation in the •el , rile system of carrying on the Government, than sn'ght has* been jestifiable ender other circumstances. In the collection of the tetanus there was great nom for improvement. With respect le the different public offices, there was hardly any one branch of any one department which was not tautly in the man. we; in which accounts were kept. Thor. sac the moist complete evidence of this iu the 5111 Report in ISln. The forms of office ten were tedious and ex pensive. In the Customs a man was occupied a day with what ought not to easily an hoer. The laws irgelating the collection of the Revenue were fell of inconsistencies and adapt@ arrvogri-nents, which gave ins to math difficulty and expence; and this was irticularly the case with respect to these parts of them which related to protecting duties, boenties, and drawbacks. The various Boards too would admit of great reform ; for a much smaller number of Com mistioners and Boards might be sufficient. The prin ciple of Consolidating of Boards might bonnied jute ellect with great benefit to the public service. Why might not Ireland and Scotland be placed under the soperintendance of the Boards here? This would nut only be more economical, but, from the superior manner in which business was conducted heft, of great advantage i• other respects. If obey were to leak also to what they were voting and paying every year for tbe proper applicatioo of the psblic sooty, ithey would also Sod peat room for retrench event. The Treasery Beard alone cost 00,0 out. It appeared from the Report already alluded to, that the Eschegeer forms were useless and Inconvenieet ; that meows were kept in a 'character difficult to eaderstand, and by which the operation of summing them was impossible. In the Public Departments of the Navy, Army, and Ordnance, there was great room for retrenchment. In Mary departments the salary was as high now as in the war. From the cots. fused manner in which accounts were kept, the audit of he became necessarily vapensive.—the Audit Office cost the country 53,0001. year. The sem of 1.200,0001. was paid merely hi order to take care of the ',static money, allot Item. into the F.:dragger. Another branch of the earmediture which admitted of considerible redection was the Civil Government of the Country. The ForeigeDepartment cost 83,0001. The Heine Departmeit cost 32,0001.1 yeer. The Cole. nial Department 28,0001. The Pri►y Council27.oool. The it:ponces of the Lord lieetenent of Ire. lend 100,0001. making in all 260,0001. a year. From his knowledge of Ireland, he would 9 y that the Laecative Goverammat of that country might be carried on mach better oe cheaper principles.— Tirough great hnprovements bad taken place ender the Gentleman who lately filled the office of Chief Secretary (Mr. Peel), there was still great room for retrenchment. Many of the bounties paid in Ireland were (pain, unnecessary. There was no need, for its. stance, of 50,0001. for bounties tea manufacture so well Miablished es the linen teanefacture. There were three millions paid by this cowry, on account of Ireland. The espenditere of Ireland was 20 millions • year, during the last war. This sixpence was not occasioned by the war, but the groat ►apes. dilate was stated by Lord Clare in a psbliseed speech. to be occasioned by the keeping down 66 the brutal lash." If Ireland had been governed no wise principles, that ell/mice might have been med. Ilia protested against the imposition 0 new taus at the present moment. Mr. P. MOORE maintained that Ministers were extremely culpable if they were ignorant of the reel state of the country; sod criminal if, knowing it, they failed to apply those nanny of relief that were undoebtedly in their pewee. ft was, undoubtedly, a singular condition, that Jimmied of havitig a Stoking Fend to lessen motion, tales were imposed to aug ment the Sinking Fend. Ile pledged himself to the House and to his Constituents, any new tea until he saw that every economical exer tion bad been made by Governmeot. Mr. HUME doubted much whether the surplus •e mach spoken of really amounted to two mil lions; he apprehended it. would be found to fall 500,0001. short of that amount. The country had 'Mainly to thank Minister' even f.•r this tardy avowal of the condition of its finance• ; but if ales were to be eccenaulated upon tales in th • way now proposed, it would have little to think ih..n for o w the score of economy : it (vein not to be forgotten, too, that the new imposts almost ezclesivr4 pressed upon the lower orders of the community —[!lest !] —Rather than vote for th►m, he world *Mittel) have consented to a Property Tax by which thy rich pro. prietors of the couotry would be compelled to eon• i tribute their fair proportion —[llear. hesr!)—lf Ministers bed been sincere iii their proffered resole• 1 tion, they would have done more and promised lees: promises would Dot relieve the starving manufac turers of Colitis!' or of Coventry. If Ministers 1 w anted information w here to begin t heir retrenchments, be would refer them only to the Fuanr• Report of ; 1817, where the Committee recommend that steps I should be taken'. enable our newly acquired Colonies to support their own eanenditure. Had Government made any such attempt ? Unquestionable not ; in the 1 Colonial Estimates or• le•s than 67.0001. was voted 1 in one mass to General Broienrigg for Ceylon, and I lin another 48,0001. to Governor Farquhar, at the I maarititis. In the whole nearly a million was dig. I posed of without the slightest attempt at sperifice. lion. The same remark would apply to the [noise Lalonde, and if Ministers bad been so online, to stick in the letter of the Treaty with Spain, why had they not stuck to the letter of the Treaty regarding the ['Dian bleeds 2 The ilinneitse Civil Leis► ought in. 'tautly Is diminished :it ought to be reduced from owe million two hundred thousand to nine hundred thousand pounds; mid if socrifiris were required from the People.they ought first to he made by the prince. —[Hear!]—The higher the stature, the more bowl(' was the person illieg It to set an "sample to the rest of the sarintry. Instead of that, be (Mr. Ilum►) SSW a military mania prevalent that cost the kingdom in. calculable seats; bands trapped is scarlet and g•tld were daily paraded about the streets, as if to mock 1 he squalid poverty of the lower orders.—(l.aughfer from the Ministerial Ilenchcs.)—Ministers might level', bet lot them look at the ether ride of the pic ture ; let them y the misery of the poor labo. does indestrious wretches et Coiliclo, or wren of the unhappy beings they meat in our sirens, and he belie". ed that there would be but °newton found sarong them who would still keep a smile upon his countenance, and that would bee smile of self w arigratelation from a Right Hots. Gentleman (Mr. Ginning), that by habitually turning into ridicule the sufferings of his fellow-creator's, he hod been able to place himself so far Awe their unhappy condition. (Continued cheers.) Gold lace and gorgeous trappings added nothing to the British character ; economy was what wet needed— : :Diet undeviating economy; and instead of it, ware ;and espenditoie ran riot in all departments. Look at the office of Commander.in•Chief; would any man believe that we were paying 18 guirteas a day to an individual for filling an office which was wholly useless ? If the necessary pipets were prodoced, it would appear that the income of that Royal Duke was scarcely less than 100,0001. per engem. The expencti of the Mint and of the Woods and Forests ought also to be reduced : the latter was not of the slightest est, and lie (Mr. Hew) hoped to live to see the day when even the pretence of necessity was taken away, by the sale of all the Crown lands, which coat the nation far more than they were 1 worth.—(llear, hear!)—When Ministers tined of economy, why did they not begin themselves by making sacrifices—why was the example of the Noble Marquis (Camden) still solitary ?—( Neer !) In the Staff of the Army only, 50,0001. might be saved : in the Ordnance Department 313,0001. said in the Army Eatraordinaries no lees than 150,0001. Withal Ore 'Realest Urger to the great interests of 1 Mt STATESMAN. the %lc the Navy he did propose to diminish, though it cost six millions for only 20,000 men, tse tse*, She greater part was expended open place and poltroons. One pest source of charge to she Ns. 1100 was the mode in which stamps were distributed. In all cases much more was paid to the disttibutors than they merited. In Aberdeen, to take that as specimen, the distributor was paid 1,4001. In do that which hundreds of others would gladly under take for 3001. In teeth, the profit sprit. Nampa was len per cent . ; sn that no *glary at all nosh' to be allowed. Ile perfectly speed to she propriety of sp. Plying five millions or even eight millions to the Sinking Food; but he was much averse to the im. position of three million of lases, its the present dis tressed state of the reentry. For the reasons he bud stated, if no other Hon. Member proposed an amendment to the last Resolution, be should think proper himself to divide the House upon it. Mr. PRIMROSE said, that with revert to the lases themselves, be ohjectud In OOP Of two leespe, and particularly the Tat open Malt ; and be Moro, that a gas might b 4. Irrynsed upon the importation of foreign corn s from whence the ortriculteral irverest might derive great advantages. This might, pettier:, be said to be favouring ton much the lauded pro. prim's,, but he always had considered that the ie. terests of she fundholder and the landholder were SO intimately connected, that in sopportiegtke et*, the ether was sure to be benefited. Mr. D. W. HARVEY strongly of jeeted to the , imposition of these new tales. Among the ea: ' , ice. Ito the nation whirls rrig be curtailed (for to ens. aerate them all would, lotted, tire she 1""i"ocil of the noose), was that ess.at et.ealliglint one, 40 Pro' aeration of informations on the Eatbequer by the Crown. No reoer than five Sawyers, as the head of whom was the Adorn...) I:nneral, weft constantly tamp's- yeal to coodact a prosecution for the recovery of 20 1 . boltolly ; end juslting from lb. return which bad been mada to the Howie, the anneal expenses of ;i.e.,. pr,s•rolons t ,. th. Gorernment might IN cal culased et nu 1 , ..) a sum than 24,0001. assesally. I thin es ii he would endertake to apply a remedy, by which 14.0001. miens he saved, and if every Honour. able M. :slater would pladee himself to do the mime, the ri. sicietier in the revenue would be soon made up. —[..l lames ] Mr. %VA UNMAN objected to the imposition of even a shilling, in the shape of tales, span tbc Poo. ple. The C`iancellor of the Exchequer had complained of the fraud, of the brewer upon the public; but he (Mr. Waithman) begged the Hasse to mark the reserve which she Right lion. Gentleman had taken : he had indeed complained of these practices, bet bad not eapmssed the least objection to participate in the profita thus derived by the brewer. " No," said the Right Honourable Gentleman, " the Public shall O-1 be robbed without my having a hood in it." With reapect to the tea on Wool, also, he bad a strong objection. fly a reference to the Relates be., f• re the Hoes', it would be seen that the amount of annellen goods exported was upwards of nine millions per annum, while the meant of the importation of the raw material did not reach to above half that sem. Another eff.tct of the imposition of the new tales eneld be, end it was one of much importance in its; c-oispeences, to send out of the motility many thou. sands who either were not able to pay, or would not pay the taxes. The greater part of those, however, who thus fled their own country, were the very men 'she lived open taxation, and who having imposed fresh burdens upon a starving People. retired to enjoy themselves in • foreign country. These were not subjects to be treated in a 'potties or laughing manner, and it would become his Majesty's Mi. 'sisters to deal in something more than gene. WOO., when they called upon Ilse (House to im pose fresh hoydens on the reentry. However horn. hle or incapable he might be, he was determined to give no vole for additional lases, till he sew some Committer appointed emeng whom there should be Ito Plocamen, and who in the tree spirit of enquiry would examine oar real situation, lie was sorry to Aire& himself so long on the attention of the linesr.—(Hear I)—lie was analogs not to trespass ne their time, bet having been seal there, without the expenditure of else penny on his owls part, by the Metropolis of the British Empire, he felt it his defy to proclaim and enter bis protest sophist the impost. lion of new taxes at the present moment.—(/leer, heir ! )—His Majesty's Ministers "Mehl collect their friends from Devonshire aid Cornwall, bet they could not argaire the confidence of the lie for o ne hail to dotter., that be would not join in any vote for new taxes of any description till he saw a sincere spirit of reireecbment and economy evinced. —(Ueer, hear !) The first and second Resolutions were then pot and carried onanisoesly. The third, which was as fol lows, was afforest& pet : " That in tie year preeedoia the Laid riessarili4ntinn, the art reparote iurogsbe .1 limbo's! oats 4.561 1191. owl the chow of the fended and enfainintidebi of Itriami oar 6.146 8551.. *Ouch etrerded lb. 'thole net terelore by the ago of 1.665.1;., os clr.ito of the LW. arid other pernaionin rlioreo of Ire- Irma, sod of she ptopostion of 'be ramifies in be defrayed by that part of she wailed Linadcsia." Sir JOHN NEWPORT observed, that from the wording of this Resolution. a censure was paned. and would be conveyed down to posterity. upon the whole Irish nation. helmd had contributed her full share to the heavy demands that bad been made Go the United Kingdom. In proportion to her capacity to pay, she had been toted mere severely than Great Britain. It was stated in a Report of the Finance Cofetnittee. that., lirge as was the increase in the FP. venue of Great Britain, that of Ireland had increased in a greater proportion. Justice to Ireland required that so unqesbied a declaration should not be pot epos the J 011111412 of the House. It was no satis factory snarler to tell him that such • statement would contain a mere truism ; it was right that the whole truth should be distinctly avowed. Ireland had shed her best blond, and sustained she heaviest presser, of taxation, in support of the common cause; her incapacity to hear more tales could only be attributed with troth to oppression and mi.e or sent. With these views ha shoeld propose the addition of words to the following effect : —That since the Union the sum of 60,125,0001. had been raised in Ireland. and paid into the Exchequer. and that the animal charge was not less thou 3,750,0001., being an increase of 4.400,0001. since the censolide lion of the two revenues. The CHANCELLOR di the EXCHEQUER thnoghtthe proposition of tho floss. Bart. @night be otriccterl to without any diswrien, L olt the twit of this Paul ) setiell se fdlih• - IMtnewlthe to 'view. at their proper value the esertions ollich I relso,l had wade d•rtlag Ils.4l2(;gbattalis W 43 not a ht oerasiota far entering l ate a listory or general discussion of the teltjeet of Irish Sir JOHN NEWPOILI . said, his nal, object in astitisiat tie amendment sins to %indicate j r ,:.„4 from the 10,1 which was contained in the Right Hon. Genoternen% The amendment was the, negatived without s di. !Anon, mead the other It .oltetiotts Lein, pat :mains, were carried auccemicely in the sffirmatter, till the within was put “pnt, the Sir M. W. ill 1/1.11 - rtlierreed, that he, for o go. could not entertain that cortit!eht• in his Nlatesit' s Ministers which would i.. lure him to pl.tm in their howls a larger disposable revenge. The 10,peau,,,. of an additional tat would inevital Iv fall open the coo. lOW is lb. end. The Duty out Tea miet be called v•olation, hot it would he. fail of • 'lts the price. too, • dopier perinil for iropi sing • ow. t e g on totcarre, f.., the price of it wag ' , newly high, sad lb. supply of i. buns America • 'l7 sm.). Tr., Wahl ...a delertatt.ed In prime the la.: I ...tier Cans. I. titt i• es j VII.M1115; eau beg•t• by las. ism; two,. then goo • 11:0,111, taco tee. sod at Int the quid of &sm..— (.. laugh ).—.11.• should now mums at: emectiment to she rlfecl of leaving inn all t'v , words of the original raiwitaa after tat word " That," end to substitute a declaration the it wag mot aMpedient lit the disnessed .tare of elm antatry, sot 11:1 *very stotacate of plactkabio ratatmcanoaft was adopted, to odd to the bordello of ter People by soy fresh imp *Shinn: Tae CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER. then rose. The Hoe. Baronet sew proposed, met only that the erigissi Reselotion shoold not be agreed to, bet that the Hasse shoold espies. a contrary apioies to the f•nour of that Resolation, and mewed it. costieliou that the country was at present look. ink to th► stale of th► finances is a miiisfactory sits. ' •titre. Ile man epposs the lien. Benoit's Resole. Hon, and (Ns his sopped to that already befogs the Hoose.—(licar I) Lord MILTON NM, I. considering •he question, whither the Right Her. C.oulemost's pl.o for is proving the Rennes was likely to be effectual or advisable, it Imams, the House to passe a little, and suffer the peseta distresses of the country to peso away in some measure, before they attempted to robe that Revenue in order to recreit the Sinking Foal—a fend which was appropriated for the se curity of the Stockholders, and not for the security of the Poblic.—(Hear !) Mr. PRIMROSE explained. The greet defect of nor present system ban been, the Orissa on rape. dients.—[Dear, hear!]—The g►estest ohjection t•rt had to Ministers, as tar as finance was concerned was, that they had been devising such expedients ever since the peace. There was another reason why he could not grant them his confidence : no later than Ito preceding night, the Right Hoe. the President of the Board of Caromed (Mr. Canning) had etpresaed his regret that Gentlemen oo his (Mr. Primrose's) aide of 11. e House should hare goaded ens kis Majesty'• Minisirrs to a press t ire exposure of those espedieota which had proved so ruinous, sod ►educed us to the situation • e were now its. The rimy way of reacts. log ourselves was to restore the country to its former greatness end character, by giving to it the mess, of external security, t►rough the advancement of its la teens! credit. . Mr. J. P. GRANT concurred with his Honour able Friend, who bad just sat dos n ; Ministers had too long subsisted upon espedients. Without enter ing iota the question between those she disapproved of, and tins, who supp sited the system of a Sinking Fund, be would maintain that she present was not a favou►able oppotteaity for augmenting oar tales, with a view to the creation or increase Ostia a feed. Nothing was more absurd than to seppose that Go vernment could create wealth, for that resulted sloe. from the usefully employed labour of the People.— But it was in the power of the Goverment to transfer wealth from owe class of the People to another; end the elect of the inesseratender consideration would be In transfer wealth from the industrious part of the community to the giockholders, for whose advantage the new Sinking Vend was to be created. Upon the subject of • Sinking Fund, be wee aware that both Mr. Pitt and Mr. Fos concurred, but neither, it was to be recollected, bad the advantage of experience.— It was notorious, that ever Mace the adoption of Mr. l'itt's plan, the country never bad an efficiebt Sink ing Feed. The only efficient Sinking Fend, indeed, ever known in this reenter, was that established by Sir Robert IValpole, and which amounted to 1,200,0001. Hem the Honourable Member read et- tracts from pamphlets published by Sir R. Walpole and Mr. Pultenvy, to show the important operation of a real Sinking Fend, both concerting in iha opinion, that the effect of such a I would be rather to in dispose the public creditor to press for the payment of his dein. Such, indeed, was the fart at limiting those pamphlets were published in 1733, as appeared from the previsions of the South See Company, and other claimants upon the Public Pone. Bet no seek consequesee bad ever followed from the Sinking Fund established by Mr. Pitt, sod with regard loth@ merit of which, Ile was aosa..rised to slate, that Mr. Fos had declared elsewhere a decided change of opinion. Ile would caution the House against stir vote of new tales upon a mese chimers.—[llcar, hear!] Mr. CALLAGUAN spoke in (mar of the pre. posed lases. Mr. F. LEWIS said, all legation was an evil, hut the benefit of establishing a Sinking Fond predousi sated above the veil in the present Case. Mr. A BERCROM BIE contended that the present was a vary unit moment to add to the burdens of the People. Mr. 11. SUMNER complained hit the tam pro. posed wore of a nature which must operstounfasoar ably on the landed interest, bet declared his intro teats to support all the propositions. After a few words from Mr. MACDONALD, the House divided as follows : Far the ortginal fliatiull.lE l 6-I , nr the ameadarai, 76. hlajnrity 1111. On ear te-adetissieoto the gallery, we found Mr. BROUGHAM on his Iwo : he begged to know e►u pie• the Chaseeltor of die Eackevier mast t.)