The Statesman. — London, England, 1809-12-06 00:00:00

tended u an cnnntry in of the Emperor with severil sailing, con taking of tirdid for tion at once, noble persons great armamen 'of Ping to sea, an Baronet. (Sir Curtis) y could give them the best account (a loud laugh). ' This armament was, be believed, the greatest ever sent out from this country. Its object was gene.• rally supposed, even on the authority of thine who were believed to know something about it,, to be certain of attainment. He might venture to say, that it contained nearly 100,000 armed tish subjects, soldiers and sailors. He hid re. calved some information on those points, which' he had good reason to think authentic, and' he would (though it was a lower statement than what had been given out, and had been made is publications stated to be written by Officers on the spot) take the military land force at 38,000 men. Of these not more than 5 or 6000 men were ac tually necessary for the attack on Flushing on the land side. He then made an enumeration, by classes of the line of battle and other ships of war ; the immense number of transports, &c. which were actually engaged in the naval department of this most extraordinary and gigantic Expedition, and declared his belief, that a statement he had re ceived of the hostile force then in a situation to oppose us, was one similar to what had, previously to the Expedition, been pot into the hands of the Government itself. Indeed, no one could suppose that any Government would send out such an Expedition without some considerable informa. tion as to the state of the country in which it was destined to act. As therefore his statement of the enemy's strength was low, hc was acting fairly towards the Administration in mentioning it, as that formed, f o far, a justification for them in sending it. He believed that the most part of their force was composed of parts of Colonial Regiments, 'is. 'of regiments of men that bad deserted, bee. from others, and were destined for Colonial service, or for the time to this service ie• Holland, as a sort of Botany Bay ; also sp, Its. lions, Dutch, and a. part of an Irish bri:Pde. He mentioned the different numbers in the nouss forts and towns, not amountieg in all to more than Bor 9000 men, and said, that after taking Flushing, and subsequent delays, there were not more than 18,000 men. If Flushing only were the object, there was no necessity for this numerous and costly armament. If Antwerp was to be Viten, and the ships there captured or destroy. ed, what kind of a defence, or even of excuse, had yet betas made for the delays which terminat. ed in a statement that the great object of the armament was impractible ? He then contrasted the conduct and the opinions, as recorded, of the military and naval branches of the expedition. He never knew iadeed, that my Lord Chathanshad ever before been entrusted, even as a Cabinet .31i mister, with the command of a great military force. He paid high compliments to the British navy, and to Sir Richard Strachaa's character for experience and valour, from whose dispatches he read extracts, which, he contended, chewed that a different sense was entertained by the navy of the practicability of our efforts, from that which the Commander in Chief appeared to entertain. The Admiral states, that he had, " in the most suqualified manner, offered every naval assistance to reduce the fortresses, and also in aid of every other operation of the army." It was also stated by the gallant Admiral, in a former part of his dispatch, that he bad communicated with his Lordship on the 2,4 th August, and found that he had not come to a determination, on account di the increased forces of the enemy, and the army getting sickly, " and that de had sent for the Generals to consult." Here Mr. Waithmais con. tended, that it alas barely possible not to' sup. pose that the Naval Commander was laughing at the Military Chief. At last all this splendid and costly preparation of warfare ended in com. ing away without attempting tba attainment of the great object for which it was intended, and with only the precarious possession of Flushing, where our army was to encounter the fogs, and damps, and disorders of Holland; and which required nut a third part of the expedition seat out. Could any man say, that this did nut most imperiously Jo/nand of the people of this country, and ape. of the City of London, every constitutional measure, by which a fair and full inquiry could lie made into the merits of the whole of it, from the beginning to the end ? Probably, this dis. graceful and calamitous Expedition had already cost this ill.usedcountry not less than 8,000,0001. ' of Diener, and six thousand of our 11108, without reckotsing those who arc suffering or dying of the diseases to which they have been thus improvidently subjected. Could the people of England i mosq bear this wasteful and profligate expeeditonmtlimit treasure and loss of their blood ? If they could do so, they were already fit to become slaves. He might express his sentiments sometimes with mono freedom than prudence; but it was not ifs his character, or his habits, to conceal his senti ments on any public subject, whatever might be the manner in which he expressed them. The whole result was the most disgraceful that could be. well imagined; and yet, no inquiry had been-in. stituted ; nothing like even the shadow of an its. quiry had been mentioned by the friends of Govern_ meat. lie could not conceive how the Master of the Ordnance, a Cabinet Minister, a Com mander in Chief, like the Earl of Chatham, could bear even the ihfcrence that must be drawn from the letter of Sir Richard Strachan.. Was that Court to be intimidated into such mcauncss such baseness, as not to address the Throne lest they should be again told, '" The interposition of the City of London" was unnecessary and imper. tinent? Ile felt deeply that such a train of ill. successes called upon them to do their duty to the Country and to the King. After suffering so much, he yet hoped, that they were not reduced altogether; and broken down in spirit, and become indifferent and callous to their interests and their. II effectual diversion al t *part of this favour, moms I particulaitt g id.the arm.; ,yeror of Austria., pollitelf,tocatneuteti ty upon tke haecentmloiratitiness In the tsidering the objects it bed iu Tie‘ra The Flushing modest not in have belle the sendikoartst the whole &wadi- unless iti lies thought necessary that out should loft a full review of this anent at onas t *.of witick, and its going o Hon. Baronet. (Sir William Curtis) ... _{ ` ~ , % fate. It might yet be said, that Par!Motet was the plate in which such great questions should originate. Undoubtedly that was the place. ,It was their province most especially. Ile was sorry indeed that lie . Could not look with hope to 'Parliament for such in Inquiry ; for what had he seen, from the II er Capittilation up to this time, that could, lead to espett such an inquiry from thevote.tof e taotity iti Parliament ? On all occasion. such inquaies Were negatived by over whelming majorities. He could not forbear to say, that under the present system he had no such confidence in Parliament as to justify him in any such hopes. Every body had seen how many members of that body soled rather to defend corruption than to defend the interests and rights of their constituents. "But beeatrs.i Parliament neglected the People's rights, had the People therefore uu right to de. mend them ? ( Hear , hear !) What was the boasted benefit of the Constitution of this Come 'try ? What was meant by persons who had that word for ever in their mouths ? Every man talked of defending the Constitution of the Country. If the Constitution were to be defended, however, it was not to bedone by eating and drinking, by votes and courtly addresses and resolutions; it could be done by the proceedings of that Court merely ; it was the people, the peasantry of the country, that the arms of the enemy were to meet in the field. The Constitution meant, with many, Imerely the support they insisted In giving the Administration of the day. They talked of the wealth and prosperity of the country. That was to be judged by the state of the whole of the in habitants of the country. It was not is the fortunes of contractors and merchants that ..it was to be ascertained : no, we mast go and eon. snit the state of our workhouses, and the num. hers of our pour. If the Constitution of this country had an advantage over every other Constitution, it existed in its giving to the pub lic a check and controul over abuses and over Ministers of the Crown, who used the King's name for bad purposes, and who wasted the resources and endangered the liberties of .the couutry. Ho wished to trouble the Court with but stew words more, and those upon a subject which had lately occasioned many remarks. It had been said, that there was a desig n to hurt all public men. Certainly nut. God f orbid that he should enter.. tain so illiberal a notion as that of attacking all ; but what he wanted nas, to hold public men to their own public principles. He hail never said that there was no difference in the talents or clia- ratter of public men ; but he believed what Mr. 1 Pitt bad said on the subject of that system, by which all public men, more or less, had acted. He had seen the lucome Tax increased by those who where loudest in complaining of the Income Tax ; l and he had seen coalition, formed, by which the same system was constantly pursued, by different seta 'of public men. Ho re nembfred when the charge (too true a charge, he believed), of indifference and apathy in the public mind, load b en given as the reason of secession, amid retirement from Par. Battiest, by public Jaen ; and nos., when that; apathy wars dying away, and the public spirit was 1 awakening and rev iving , he did net see those -public men taking advantage of theft favourable circumstances for the discharge of their public duties. He remembered Mr. Grey, now Lord Grey, upon different occasions calling for Re. form, and lately be: heard of his having spoken of a species of canting Reform. lie did not Speak this from any ill-will to Lord Grey ; but he did sincerely wish to see public men so situated, that thei should not be compelled to act under the domineering influence of a Borough.monger. iag faction. He might be called one of a faction, by those who pleased to say su ; but he was of no faction. Ile was not devoted to any set of Ministers, as individuals. lie wished to see those as Ministers who had great public ta. lents, and who united to them private vir. tues....(ilear ! Hear !)—V try different, how. ever, from those who bad lately conducted the affairs of this Empire, who had not more dis. grated their country by their public transactions, I than by the recent exposures: it was evident that they had disgraced themselves by their mean, shabby, 1 contemptible devices to overreach, cheat, and be-1 tray each other. (Hear ! Hear ! Hear !) As to that part of his motion, which humbly advised the calling together of Parliament, he had no de sire to press it. If his motion (that excluded) met with the support of the Court,- he should be satisfied. He did nut think, as the time of the meeting of Parliament was not far dis. taut, that it was of much consequence. In. deed, he was advised to inflect it against his own jedgment. However, there was nothing in it, either way, of any consequence. But let the Corporation address the Throne on the awful si tuation in which Ministers have placed the coun try; and we had a right to anticipate that the King would do what King George the gecond did, under similar circumstances ; namely, direct an Inquiry, and be ism to see that his subjects ok so great a share in the interests of the Drown, and the welfare of the country. He then moved his Address, which was couched. in 'terms correspoading with the spirit of the requai. 'tien, and noticing the disgraceful( divisions of his' Majesty's Ministers, &c. nrc. ; and, finally beg ging for an Inquiry into the recent failure of his Majesty's arms. The proposed Address being read by the Re corder, and seconded, Sir VILLIAM CURTIS addressed the Court at some length. lie did not agree with the bold lineations of Mr. Waithman. He thought that thc. Expedition to Walcheren was a good one. Walchercn, be thought, might be of more use to us than Gibraltar or Malta. He knew of the plan, and had known Flushing well, and thought It was not safe to proceed up the Scheldt without taking it. • lie thought, too, that the,Expedition had not been well managed, but w,as sure that the Commander in Chief was as ready as any person in the world for an inquiry into it. He thought the divisions among Ministers dis graceful ; and they must have had a very bad effect on the management of that important Expedition. lie reprobated their divisions warmly,and indent_ aflisis opinion on the injustice aad injury deco to THE STATZIWCAN. •lb - some of the parties. He could say more on that subject than he should then say. He repeated that he had no objection to inquiry : on the con trary, ho thought it necessary ; but he thought there was no occasion at this time for the present motion, bedause the Parliament was already fixed to meet on the 23d of January ; and there could be no doubt hut , they would then call foi an inquiry, and enter into it in the most serious manner ; and the Parliament was, in his oyi. nion„ the organ of the people, and as such the most proper to take the matter up. Whenever the business of inquiry into the subject of the late Expedition to Walchercu should be taken up in Parliament, hp would be one of those who would give it his support; and if the Parlia ment did nut bring forwatsl the subject at a very early period after their meeting, ho would then be one of the first to join the worthy Gentleman who brought forward the present motion, ur any other Member of that Court, in any motion to the same effect; and would use his utmost efforts to pro. cure such inquiry. He thought, however, that it was at present unnecessary, and should there fore, without taking up more of the time of the Court, conclude, by moving the previous ques. tion. Mr. DIXON seconied the motion just made by the worthy Alderman. Mr. Alderman CII R ISTOPH ER SMITH conceived that, as Parliament was so quickly to be assembled, the interference of the Corpora. lien of Lontluit was premature. If Parliament did not perform its duly, by taking up the con sideration of our late Expeditious, a course of proceeding which he was sure that body would adopt, then he pledged himself to join every man in that Court in calling upon the Crown fur that inquiry which would lead to a redress of their grievances. Mr. GRIFFITHS supported the original pro. position. He was free to acknowledge, that af ter the experience of the tat eighteen years, he had bur little confidence in tire cuntrouling mice of Parliament. When, therefore, the Citi zens at London had a right to exercise, and there existed an important upporlunity fur interfering with their solicitations, he was of ispinioe, that the line of duty was to exert that right prorptly, and not to depend upon the honesty or Oa viCws of any other body, hoiwer strongly it waopruv ed that such an assembly ought to act upon simi lar motives.' • Einiugh•liasl keen shown to conviote the country, that the Ildtise of Commons was not the most active supporter of the people's Apts.. Whatever were its raid's, he still confided in the practical attention of the Corporation of London to the country's wishes. In doing so, it Indy fol. filled a duty to a swilling and patriotic iyeopte—a people whose sacrifices to thu wants of the state had reduced a great portion of them to absolute want. [Hear 1 hear l) Ile made no idle statement ; he had is his hand the Order of the Commisaiotiers of the Land Tax in the City of London, which was on the morrow to be forward. ed to their various collectors, peremptorily cum 'Mending them to levy a distress upon every person deficient in WarTaxtv to the amount ol ten pounds. --(Cries of Hear ! Hear !)...To a people so circumstanced, and to be deprived before that Court met again, of Ilia little covering *hien an inclement season demands, was not something due in the shape of iniquiry for the millions that had been wasted, not alone in %solar°. • blr, but in disastrous Expeditions ? Upon such grounds he would give his support to the original motion. Mr. KEMBLE only opposed the expediency of the motion ; if Parliament did not take it up he pledged himself to be must forward in impressing upon that Court the propriety of their insisting upon investigation. Mr. Alderman WOOD expressed his hope that the Court would not be led aside from the object of the original motion, by those arguments which had been urged of this not being a proper time to bring it forward, because Parliament was so soon to meet. Ile was of opinion that no time could be more proper than the present for bringing forward such a motiou as that of his %art's) Friend on the door. The Expedition to the Scheldt was one of the greatest importance that had ever been sent from this country : the greatest respoo sibility was, of course, attached. to it. It had totally failed, and nothiug could be• more evident I than the necessity of an inquiry • ioto the cease of such failure. Being of this difieilm,. he hoped that Court would do its duty by adopting the mu- tion of his worthy Friend on the loor, and thereby spew that the Corporation of the City of Loudon were alive to the dearest interests, of the country, and ever ready to give an example to the people throughout the whole kingdom, of calling for in. quiry whenever it shook! so Obviously,epoear to be wanting. Fur his part 2 he was so convinced of the propriety and necessity of the Motion,, that he should be glad to claim • the attention of the Court, fot four or five hours, un the subject, were he possessed of eloquence and'abilities adequate to the tasks nib Worthy Friend on the flour had, however, so ably argued the point, that he would content himself with time observations he had al. !ready made, io its favour and support. Mr. Alderman SCHOLEY said, it seemed tube universally agreed that an inquiry was necessary ; but many.were of opinion, that as Parliament was so soon'to meet, it would be better to wait till it should be seen whether they would immediately 'call for an inquiry. For his part; he could have no doubt but they would do so, and he would, therefore, vote for the previous question. Mr. Alderman GOODBEHERE, in a most nervous speech, animadverted upon the system to which - certain Members of that Court had nerti. naciottsly adhered to fur the last eirhteesi years. They were then inoculated with a Ministerial mania, which no change of emits since could era. diCate. From 1793, at which period they unne. cessarily lazed the city by an increased tromity to seaman, for uo other purpose but to chime in with the war.whoup of the day, they continuo: to be the vassals of every set of men, hold by no other conuexion but that their patrons were in office [llear ! liter !] No sooner did political eveata deprive these patrons of official existence, • Sr. , • . •~ • • • . the acknowledgment and support of these very Members were transferred to successors, al. hough the tenure of their office was upon gronnils of policy which their previuns favourites contra. dieted and opposet‘. Many were the illestra tines of such conduct. They wore visible in the discussions upon the Test and Corporation Oaths-- a question upon which their love of the Court politics made theme very men to surrender their own private opinions and attachments.— They were above all manifested in their coliduct upon the Catholic Emancipation question, why!. they even surrendered their darling Pitt, the avo. cd, the determined supporter of the thin., of the Irish Catholics, and without regard to the object of their adoration, transferred the same sincerity. the same loyalty to his successors, who now hoht the reins of Government, when the very pledge of treating such claims with disregard and denial ! [Mar ! hear!] Bit forsooth, the interference of the people appears unnecessary. Parliament in its wisduns will provide for every popular and national want. In its hands are Weis committed the honour and the wishes of the country. The experience of the past has con vinced the people that there exists in that body an itiquisitive spirit to detect abuses and to punish public delinquents. The activity of that feeling is toot a matter of doubt, it has been prov. ell to an attentive aid admiring country in the discussion o p en the Duke of York, and in the d-grading. bargains a Lords Castlereagh and Claticarty [cries of hear! hear !] It was not true, that the prerogative of Royalty was a just right ; it was equally true, that the Aristocracy of the Country had their movements all regulated by constitutional limitations. VVith their just and proper exercise he never wished to interfere, but he begged the Cutlet to recollect, that the peri -1 ple of England hail alto their rights orientally Mtn.- ' rent and constitutionally recognized. The most im portant of those, was the right to petition —to in_ sist upon Inquiry into the disposal of seat tree.. sure and that bloodshed, the cotitroul et which they committed to the care of the coaidential Servants of the Cruwit ; and fur which such ser vants ought, and are responsible to those who, by their industry and labour, supply the means of public expenditure [Hear ! hcar !] The City of Lundou had a dubt to discharge to society ; it was expected from its citizens to give, upon important questions, a fair tone to every part of the em pire. That the present subject waspne of disas trous magnitude, there was not a man hardy enough to deity ; the only benefit which could re. suit from such a cause, was a determined feeling upon the part of the people to express their npi. nioes open the calamity, and to demand such an investigotion as would 'lead to the conviction and punishment of the delinquents. Let then the Corporation manfnlly, upon that day, discharge the obligation it owed its Constituents and its country, and even should they fail in the object of their prayer to the Crown, they will have the consolatory feeling of being exculpated • from any participation in the vices, which, if con tinued, must ultimately end in the subjugation of the country. Mr. Sheriff WOOD fully coincided in the opinions of the worthy Mover. Be trusted that the great duty that Corporation owed the country would not be overlooked at times of such awful importance as the present. It was idle to tell the country, when it expected the ex. ercise of a duty from those entrusted with a se. crud deposit, that there wits no necessity of the subject interfering because Parliament was speedily to be assembled, and that, consequently, (stresses consequence!) they would institute inquiry. No begged boldly to say, that he had a distrust of Parliament. No note could deny that the Corpo ration of London had a right to interfere with their Address upon all occasions of public no toriety. The importance, the disasters, and. the degradation, of late political events, matt who had spoken had ventured to quesliblll:. Why then was that right, so universally allowed,, and so proper to he exercised, to remain unused by that Corporation ?—Was k that the response which the present Ministers advised their Sovereign . to sive them on the Ceirvention of Cintra, an 'an. merited rebuke, that therefore they had not now the firmness to exercise, and a reaognised right, namely, to insist upon inquiry [fear! hear!] ? Had he the talents of the worthy Mayor, upon that . iehjeet even fur hours would ar gue, convinced that in. calli.og npon the Court ' tee adopt the motion he was giving a stimulus to thoc:2 feeling of firmness and itidepen4ence which cot.ld alone eventually save the country. Mr. Alderman SCIIOLEY and Sir CHARLES PRICK rupported the previous question, upon the grouted that Pot ; liainent wn.ld imtitute the necessary inquiries; at the slime time pledging theuiselves to call for invastigntion, should Par liament neglect such a positive duty. Alderman - WON/TR tolloited its the Avis sage; and ex horted thepublie, whom he saw in such numbers below the Bar, mot to believe that, even if the osntioo was enrrkil it Mont Court, it thereto,* was the deliberate conviction of the Corporation of Lonclou.—(Crkr aJ Order! Order!] Mr. WA ITHSIAN, with murk anitruoitm, called the Wor thy Alderman to order. In the propriety of which call, the Lord Mayor concurred. Mr. JACKS professed himself a friend to rigid iaquiry: but thought Parliament was the proper place where such a feeling should orighwde. He considered it indecent and hide corons to go op to the Throne with the proposed Aden'''. intrenching, as it were, upon the King's Prerogative, IDS' after Oat Court had nddress►d their Sovereign with all the feelings of personal respect and gratitude. Kr. Dep. PII 'LIPS consihsred rretjillr4ll: o l t q of 'V, oppilionalhe motional as ; MOOR 41W : an Oki 4<lriCe, Mich, t• the Ins t r i g hte ri ) aap, dig y4...tmants of the (Men in tie.l Aecmhly—those men who came there to propene Of oppose any meo4ure at the mandate of the Minister. LCrles N hear: hear ! and order ! order !] There were min who tall!6 loudly of the prosperity of the comm,. Where ons prod rrity to he traced ? Was it in the Oeini•lF. and V. 4011, !sus workhouses of the country ? Was it to Ite froM the incresnot appVcationsqf the 1,4-vithen:r who'd:is .ear, ....Ter from their doors ! Yea I ?heir ProofF,ltY Oil" rrtb. dent with their noested delirerasce e i ib i w, %hell first introdpeed, found this ramie, Ay iabfeet le a strut of 201 ei tinm and has stoic chi s elled ipaa it, illartmeet owe security, the intolerable itit'4ltilsraant of 500Milliuhls. Alderman ATILISS kit that 414411 was 4100 flit if I 1