The Statesman. — London, England, 1823-04-18 00:00:00

an (Stf Vaisirierg) u alone responsible for the ill . +21.1 of tie qiwition. If the cause was lost, it was piing to the too great anxiety of Gentlemen to get into of f ice (laud cheers). IVith that, however, lie had no -thing to do f all that he stood up far was to defend him deli against the sweeping imputelion of the Right Hon. Gentleman. In conclusion, toe Right Honourable Mem ber said that he was ready by his vote on this night tv viedieetrill Th' *PIO& winch be had ever tkpres nett on this subject, and that hie support should never be withheld Weis etetleeiligren the emcees cri wisick drkent eel the honour, itgfety, ould prosperity of the empire at ,large.—(Heat, hetet) , Mr. C. - W. WYNN admitted that the causes whieh intr. e nced the sueeele of fellers of a measure of this importance , ' ;*ere fair aufilects for canvass and consideration. Ile re: lorteil Me charge of incaniisteucy which the Right lion. tteetlenian (Mr. Tierney) had made upon Net and sonic of his colleagees, contending that such a charge ennui with a. pardenierly bad grace from that quarter. It had beeu said that be (115. W.) eacriticed the cause to his lave addled; thk he denied. bio far trine making his ceasieteney the price of. hie advancement, if the success of this measure depended on nemehtiog out of office, he world have gladly, pursued ibet ceurse.—(Hear, hear.) But it was a l it trud that lie (44„ W.) and his colleagues OW made no terms repine sinn ing into office. 'NO benefits which Ireland derived from the (loveruinept of Lord Weleeley and tee Adi ii iii istration of lals Right Hop, Pliant the Attorney-General, were mortal the effecti of those stipeletioiss. By this means a pletLe WO heal out to that couutry that party distinctions would be lost sight of, sad the low impartially adininistered to perepne of all religious profs mione. Ant, lit effect, the dis tribution of justice for some time back waf marked by a character of impartiality which it did not possess formerly. —(heer.) The Right lion. Geutleman then was not war ranted in therein! liim (Mr. W.) wit loconsiateacy ; and it was always tree, that he who suspected his brother °NM elmulation and deceit, lodged of him by the standard which was its his own breast. As to the motion itself, he would net now give an opinion open the propriety or improprlet of bringing it forward ; but he could nes sit down without elpresoing his determination at all times, stud tinder ell cir curuatances. to save the measure his support. Mr.IIENN ET and Mr. PEEL rose together, but the SPEAKER called upon Mr. BENNET, who said, that having voted for this goes lion sine ISM, as one vitithy affecting the safety and honour of the empire, it was with reeled that he was obliged to with draw his support now, frum a feeling of ditiont et the want of faith in those ;eho were most forward in promoting it.— U filentieureo were sincere in their zeal for it, that sincerit y would be better shown by deeds than proressione. Ile lir. 11.) could not consent to take a part In nit+ comedy. 11' 11 • voted for the question law, lie would be doiagau the Irish people by unneerssarile raisi n ;( their hopes of eh:- mate success. at the very time when such a coneutninative was moat improbable. • Mr. Secretary PEEL, said lie had been calloid upon, by some observations of the lion. 11 ember for Westmin• stet (Sir F. Burdett), to stand) in S .11 61,fenee. That Hon. Barone; bad questioned the sincerity of his (Mr. P.'s) opposition to the cause of Cattio , ie ip i•hot. )jlowould tell him that such ill jail:MN/lion seas to•a' ty Onfo.llldell. It was certaiuly open to Isi+ Right Hoe. .1 4. riend near him (Mr. Plunke t). and 'hese who Alyea the cause, to blame his (Mr. P.'s) opinione, and to rebut his arguments but it ens not ronsistent with a profess e d , advocate of toleration, not to extend so ne iniluleetire re an adversary who differed in opinion um Line (li art The Min.-Baronet should not s p i ed; utletatiu t, and :.,! intolerantly. He had allii.••;, as if et • question cunt tin the whole argument against this measure, wheel. r lie (Mr. P.) was afraid of the Pretender, the P. or the Devil. (A laugh.) TWA was not eztctly the time or the circumstances under which lie sti ',lied to state his a!i men When the tuition wag broitehr forward, if it wet brought fore aid, he would then state hi: continued an I h coutirote objectio to te rinciple of this measure.— Until the d lion. Ba n ro s net It I p oard those ohjectious, ought not to have qtrestioned his (Mr. r...) sincerity. lle had no wish to coerce! his areivion. He %weld ra ther submit to cornet extension front nhi e, though that was no great sacrifice, titan compromise :I principle.— From the earliest periods, lie had opposed all coneessi. to the Homan Catholic. In pursuing this course he Eared not whether such a course was popular or nut. A Might Hon. Friend of his (Mr. Wynn) had said that Ireland hail not felt the advantages of imperial justice once within a late period. He could rot hear this wit h out expressingitis dissent from the truth of it. lie had been Secretary for that country for a considerable time, bet he defied the Right HOD. Gentleman to state any inst Mee in which the administration of thrice was market be partiality. He certainly entertained sentiments upon the question of Catholic Emancipation, which he never con cealed, but they did not intl.:twee him in his public con duct. He bad ever made the existing law of this land the role of that conduct. Ile felt that the ranee of this op. position to Catholic Emancipation I.ii•l him open to runs construction, but yet he did rot think, he should litre I been held up for that opposition ea the champion of a Prolestint, Orange, and bigotted ascendancy.—(Hear hear.) The Catholics of Ireland caul I not have expected his support, knowing as they did the principles which be uniformly professed. He did expect from their justice that they wool I respect the sincerity of his conduct. (Cheers) Mr. WYNN, in explanation. stated, that he had used the expression—that impartial justi 20 would be administered in Ireland, in reference to the exclusive principle which had been upheld in all former Administrations in Ireland. But with regard to his Right Hon. Friend who had just sat down, he could only say, that from having witnessed his cordial ca-veration In the promotion of measures fie the benelit of Ireland, he was cmvinced tint his Right Hon. Friend was ready heartily to join is the beneficent views of his Majesty towards that country. Sir F. BURDETT, in explanation, observed, that he had stated that he could not beliese any man could seriously feel soy apprehensions of danger to nrise in Ireland in en. - sequence of full concessions being made to the Catholics; and so far from insinuating any doubt of the Right lion. Gentleman's sincerity, he respected his sincerity so much, that he would be satisfied elmost to place the issue of this question upon the declaration of the Right Hun. Gentleman, on his 'moue, whether he felt any appre:iensious of the re sult of the concessions to Catholics? The Right Bon. Gee tleman had not, however, declared tket Le lea any appre hensions. Mr. PEEL said he understood the lion. Baranet to say that apprehensions were pretended to be entertained by ems* in office, for the purpose of retaining their place. Mr. BROUGHAM said he was sure that the House would pardon the anxiety which prompted him to tri se pass, for a short time, on their au• nnon, though be had not the good fortune to be present at the early liana the discussion. They would p ado!' hint if he felt the greatest interest in the fate, trot of the i.e ition now be fore them, whether it alsould be laid on the table or no., haul no less a question than this, whether there shrill he an end now and for ever mere ol—(Cries of " no!" from the Opposition Benches)—He was exceeding ly gratified by the cheer of bin Hon. Friend+, though somewhat irregularly atlineistereil, lie must admit, h'- cause it conveyed the asenranve that ihit which he at prehinded, would not be the cis:, ;lel that theluestina was not to he given up for lost. tie hail heard a Ivicer and recommendetione repeatedly addressed to the Right Honourable Gentleman, whose notice good upon the hooks for that night, to withdraw the qnestion, and le certainly did rise to protest agaiinet that course. Ile wog anxious that his lit. Ilim. Friend shout I fulfil his pledge. and that the question should be brought on. Ile ale im rted all that had li-en said -on his ante ef the Ho Ise, mad most of what had been Watel on the other. He fully concurred with his Honourable Friend, in having tax worst possible opinion of the conduct of those who, he stated—and lie now arraigned them fur it, had sebtanti ally a%•anloned their duty to this li neation, who were far from following the simple, plein, intelligible conduit of the Secretary of State fur Coe Hulse ip.srtmenti nibs hail always epolic.his sentiments openly, nuiferinly• ago g 1 4 , 1111111111.11111111 it oat' eitorlivoitio — lrso took office on a secret under ally or altogether, any par whose mouth, heart and coot be • real index of the h unison upon this questit ; wed Mr. Brougham, followed upon my side 4 I should not have to du the despair which fills s But, whatever the conduct 4 tieneral for Ireland might I. front his former professions; that be had, let the Right Affairs (Mr. Canning) have critical 'earnest for this qui flirter. when the question si ludia into bononreble exile pot to his sapience of tritely io hard labour is Lie owl Owned teethe 'western of d his enemies, pitied by his fri tied doers its all those Sate iSiles • an.l sentiments- iv, It t us take that cri•ical tem on Lord Chance:lor Eldon, Catholic Claims; if at that said last night, that he se •bint for New Sarum (Lord Waited the most incredible ling, fur the purpose of ob furnished itt the hisfasey of Mr. Secretary CANNIN false. • • • A solemn silence peeved' appeared to us to he in • house. when The SPEAKER ewes! that an Hon. Member,holi Right Hun. Serretsry, sh. respect whi, It was d..e to t •• the House. Mr. Secretary CAN ND •Irave been guilty towards i gise, but Lodging—no con we to retract what I have The SPEAKER said, t much difficulty, es lie left he would ask the Ifotive.i hips. He would tferefor ]loose whether it would 111 tote, under the rote , tion Ilonourable Gentleman wl expressions, which lie ass order I.y which the debat plated Mr. Secretary CANN': sorry to incur the &spies not retract an expression, cenyietion in hie own mi • • Mr. BROCUHAM wa cries of "Chair, Chirr . The SPEAKER. again owl nut guilty upse any but he was most autism. • this breach of its iegule not disposed to ronakbe• • The CIIANCELLOA hoped that he was uot one Alember or one Geui • skier, but he would ask tl . what it was that, be bad a'l times expressed his querre, but sometimes soy if the expressions no , Gentleman were applied did, to contain one of th person tl character of Li . siteinst his •pnblic eon had a right to scrutirth what regular manner 1 feelings. He was quite Gentleman would be doi character as a Member • fensive expressions. 111. this request, as he was • tleman could not have He could only say that mince of language use' veyed offence, contrary. the person who had utc The SPEAKER laid the propriety of calling • meat in the difficulty ti perceived that souse of —(Cries of "No, no.": gratulation to the Hou that the lanittlat4e tv expression. was in itsel duty of at once interfe interfered if he felt wi roan who had just sat Learned Got tient so's l • I*. He now, therefor' and Learned Gentler= hesitate in answering circumstances of She c Mr. BROUGHAM but Mr. TIERNEY ros the regular course we his Hon. Friend's wl House would see that like regular debate, i middle of a sentence v that pronounced by th He thought that the wade it necessary that dispose of the Right - To let his words stan Learned Friend fur al tray to the practice r objection on any gron Lave to withdraw the The SlV.':alt vat sit which had been made Li-ntleanan were recA Learnyd Gentlemen I v err considered not tendon of lkis inter words were official an had a•tverted to this a duty to call the Rig awl now he hoped t luau would recap the wade use. Mr. Secretary CA! fleeted on the words " bouu•l, wbatever cent to declare that he es that l& made use of. Lord A. lIAMI LT • language of his Hun, • the rules and prartil I very• different front ti tine. Ile held it to the first violator of tisfaction to the Hon from the preceding p of order. He, they it incumbent on hit who was the first vii requiring that he Al glry •ya. Mr. UANKES Nal , 1 ' - . , 0 111 , 1 1 11 I irl l ' , 11 , 1 i i , I 1.1 1 , i 1 1 I I , ,1 1 _Ai THE ST Ato.lll4k saw. 111011911 talents were so well able to protect himself tear), when charges of injustice were brought against hat Officer because he did not shrink f rom the perfor*), once of a r!uty. The power of the Law Officer of the Crown could never he admitted by hire to be strictly consti tutional, but if ever there was a case where an intervention of the strongest nature was justifiable, the lute cireautstene res of Ireland were of that description. He was afraid of giviig a decided *eke oe thoje weesemstioesto . e. try., where. a Prift said, .••w hat was tritielsewhere was riot true there , ' He was 'cautious of roving of an pre iritset • Artornerftenerel in shit— ectentrys 4...1ett, however. that the Learned Gentleman was not fairly met in that Hem, or shiehled from a blow which seemed to imply that it came hrnied with justice. Under .41 the circumstances, he felt that he could do no servitor in attending a discussion, either to the Catholics them selves or to the country. But hq felt it necessary to de clare that he was a friend to emancipatien as fervently as before, and that he bad no approbenstoo of danger either to Church or State. It was not a cense of morals or plitrion, but a calculation of intatests.—(Hear, bear.) — and the opposition to it nothing more than a resistance on the part of those who held power and place, to admit others to share them—(Hear.) He was convinced that in the present day, in the - year 1523, there was not a person even, with honest and sincere prejudice, if stupid enough 'ln he prejudiced, who could pretend an alarm at a combi nation of foreign Popish Sovereigns to brine about the 1/011 and the Pretender.—(llear and laughter.) No one doubted now the title of the Royal Family to the throne. No one can helices now in Popish plots to massacre * duty, though en Hon. Baronet (Sir T. Lethbridge) bad galled the attention of the House to a plot among the Jesuits.—(Hear, and laughter.) Those fool ish' as they were*, had no longer any, fo elec . •There ir was an end at present to all State da ' —lbw' Preten der was out of the question, and the , ' was is harm less as any old lady in Christendon IOW.) Tbere was cot a men in the country who would pot laugh is .the fate . if be did not spit in the face,. of any person who secured bins of such folly, unless it were souse of those believers in the existence of ghosts and witches, or one of that party who sallied out a few nig hts since to draw blood from the finger of a witch to cure her 'eharms.—(baughine.) [ " In Somersetshire," acid an lion. Member, which produced loud and continued laugh ing for several minutes.] It was true (resumed Sir P. 'Burdett) that none bet a Somerset man could ever com mit such an absurdity. In fact, there was no man in the %pantry sincere in his apprehetnion of dander to the Star ; and he would be content to resist the issue of the question elan the Right Hon. Member for Oxford, stand ing up in his place, laying his hand upon his beort, and .deelartne solemnly that be thought the Constitution would be endangered by Catholic Emancipation.•-•- (Hear.) There was no danger in carrying the question. bet there was danger in nine-tenths of the people of Ire • land having their hopes excited by . the Right Hon. Oen tletnan (Mr. Canning), and their injuries heightened by Us eloquence. What effect must it not hitie upon them ; Must they not feel their wrongs doubly. to see them year atter year depicted in such glowing language, and still no relief afforded them? It must, instead of tranquilliii in e, be the source of excitement to retaliation upon those who are so forcibly pointed out as their oppressors. Such was the state of Ireland, anti such was the questiou which the House had to discuss that night, and net whether the Catholics of Ireland, should be admitted to all they asked. Their interests or the interests of the Catholics of England, who had still stronger claims, from not hav ing received the same concessions which Ireland once received, were not alone at stake, The Catholics of Ire land, when they b..ldly demanded their rights, had con cessions made them,but it was only at moments when their tone was decisive, or sehen the fears of this country were excited, that they did meet the least considetation.— T. e discontent of Ireland was in his opinion, as just source of apprehension to England ; and this countr was t o co uld not be happy or prosperous while Ireland be the impatient victim of its oppression. The safety of England required that nine-tenths of the people of Ire land should not remain in the state in which they were then represented to be, because the s stein under which they had long suffered. was for a moment relaxed. — Ireland was thrown into a state of agitation, because it was it last favoured with a Lord Lieutenant disposed to eonciliation—such a Chief Governor war rarer there than a black swan —(A laugh); and because in At'orney General was the protector and not• the oppressor of the . people. If such an o ffi c er was as rare as a black swan, it also seemed that he was marked out as a black slip by the offended party. This, then, was a question in in which the balance of office and-duty was so nicely ar ranged, that the only preponderance in favour of it arose from the part of the Cabinet who had the preponderance in talent, being its supporters—(Hear.) It • would be seen, if it was brought forward with sincerity by the one side, that it would have the effect of breaking up the Cabinet. *All public considerations were to give way to that apprehension. The balance of power in Europe or the internal interests of the country were, it appeared to give way to that consideration. The country was euffering.sli which impotence could inflict. The present system of imbecility -7-the present impotence on every question where selfinterest was concerned, was not only bMnging the country into contempt, but cutting off all iesverources, and in the view of those who looked pros pectively, depriving it of all those capacities of retain ing power and wealth, such as id nation before ever pos eessel—(Cheers.) Having thus exp d their disap probation of that annual farce, he would justify his con duct by the words of a person whose eloquence and ta- . kits commanded the highest respect: No Minister night to venture to propose such a question, unless he p:a• determined to carry it through. The • speerh from which ise'woold read an extract, which conveyed his *esti ments more forcibly than any language of .as own mutual, was addressed to the House on the 25th of Feb. 1013, by an - Hon. Gentleman:4llr. Plunkett.) He would offer that in conclusion to the House, fur it uas his intention rot to wait the discussion of the question, but to leave the House, disapproving as he did of the temporising and hollow manner in which it was brought forward. The lion. Baronet then read the following extract from Mr. Plunkett's speech on the Catholic ques tion in 1813: • .. Rut haw can any honest mind be reconciled to the am.i biguity in which the Cabinet has concealed itself from pub lic view en this great national question—or with what jus , lice can they complain of the madness arising ono ut of thisect fe ver . of their owe treating......... Th subj of comprornise--either the claim is forbidden by some imp l:OM priciple, too weed to be tampered with, or it is en joined 'by a law of reason and justice, which It is oppression to.reaist. In ordinary cases, it sounds well to say, that a get-mica Is left to the unblessed ease of Parliement and the people t but that a measure of OW importance, which has bee* discussed again and again by ail his Majesty's Mtoi nisters. should b e left to work its own way, and suffered drift •alons the title of Parliatuentary or popular opinion, seems dlfflealt to uaderstand pat they all have considered it deeply, and formed their opinions decidedly, in direct opposition to each other, that after this they shook( consult hi the same Cabinet. and sit on Vie santabeach, professing a decided opinion in point of lhoory.end stcict centrality in petit of practice. One lota of thn King'iltlinisters encouraging them to seek w ithout enabling them tOobtain; the other half. subdivided, Some boring out an ambiguous hope, otrsimouncing a raver -ruling ..despair, I . esk, is tide a ste ts o n which the pokeenriseit has a tight to leave it 7 Some master-piece of imperial policy must be unfolded. something far removed from the sospicioa of unworthy compromise of principle fcfr raftir. to recovile the.teilinge of the intelligen t public, sr or .. 1 "olcla rational eolifidenee in thehowosty sod seriousic of the Ocieetomeat." The wading of this speeclt was &completed by the fre. vest chews of the House. : .. • .. . . .. . , t4a r . i .,,i- o . ti et 1 . - T ii. , ... - . ... t4a n. r ?t ids about l-eto-rpeucitiferlt uttlernloimehrAse ,s leary's jilinisters attagted $l, do tieir dity, AO , i shOuld 'decline— . , . Mr. CANNINU.—I begardon ; but as the Hon. Bae. WATS "ilieut to liiivie 2 -TEReihl " Ordet.'7 • Mr. CANNlNitiat doyter , . • . Lord NUGENT said that if he did not.k.- e way to. Ile 'Right ficitionialTenian, it was from an sol e', iety to declare his non-cOoentreitee in the iteteluilon if . the lion. Baronet. .11 wan.not- because the-conduct of. Ministers met his disapprobation that he shollo give lip his own duty to the neuntry., Of the coat 11:,WItatie tees be was careful not to express Meisel,* is Luigi then was depressed with shame and aorilltv• at it. SA 'oog as the question should be brought foriO4, be fe it to be his ditty not to fail in being at his ptwt. On Mr. CANNING being loudly called for from 1)41 sides of the House, he rose and said that he patented the indulgeoce of the House and the Noble Lord for the in terruption which Le gave. it arose frooa an anxiety to offer some observations in reply to the Speech 4 an Hon. !limpet in his presence; and as that Hon. Member bad expressed an intention immediately to quit the House, he was anxious to express his sentiments. The Honour able Baronet, a few eights ago, had taken it on himself iii state, that he (Mr. Canning) was heard to declare that he considered the question of Roman Catholic Eman cipation as a hopeless one. Ile (Mr. C.) never Bait. any suct thing, nor thought any such thing. Ho was pet - - mailed be never gave such an opinion ; and thpuglt he had no distinct recollection of the words which be used on the particular occasion alluded • to by the lion. Baronet, yet he could venture to say that he never declared the cruse of emancipation to be hopeless, because he never enter tained any such fears fur its ultimate success.—(liear.) bear.) Wbat he had said, and from the repetition of which he did not shrink, was this: that in the present state of the country, the condition of this and the other House of Parliament, the practice which prevailed—a practice founded less in any ordinance of the Contitu tion than in custom, of choosing front amongst the Members of either House those who were to form the MiQistry, it was impossible to bring together any set of men who would agree in opinion upon this question, and be at the saute time qualified to direct the measures o f Government. lint if there were personawho cousidered that thequestion could not be Carried, mien it was mute a Government question, he was not responsible for it.— They might, if they pleased, because be had said that he considered the frautiug of such an Admisistration hope less, construe it into an expressed dei-pair of the success of the ineesureitself. To this reasoning he opposed the disavowal which lie had given this night, and the many opinions which lie bad at different times sated, that this question must make its wsy under any Government where there was not a uniting principle to oppeseit.--(Cheers.) But what be had pronounced the cause to be hopeless, even under a Government tithed in its favcur, was impos sible. He thought the experiment of such an Administra tion unlikely to eucceill; but the qnestien on its own merits was making way, and would make way, unless it was checked by the proceedings of this night, which' threatened it with its death-blow, if the 'accession was carried to the extent which was threatened. Bei ts failure, however, on the heads of the seceilers,—(Hear, hear.) he was not responsible for it. As to his oon conduct, he could only ray that, in or out of office, he had used his best endeavours to promote this cense. I n ISI2, when he was but a bumble ineividual, sod connected with no party in the State, lie had the good fortune to bring for ward the question in this House, which etas tint carried by a inajority. Last year, too, the motion it was Isis good fortune to bring forward was upproved of by a majmiev of this lipase. If, upon these occaelom, he was asked what hopes he had, andavliettier he had any, that it would pass the other House, he would reply, that his tiro mo tion was lost only by a small majority, though it was moved by a man who was dot in Ohre, or connected with the Administration—(Hear )—Why then should he tie. spair of the success of a question which did not appeal to the temporary topcs of the day, but wa grounded uo the immutable principles of sound policy S a n d which m us t, therefore, eventually come to a prosperous issue? And whether it succeeded or not, he (Mr. C.) would be consist ent with himself; ard.ohntever side a proposition for the relief of the Catholics come from—whether it was for their total or partial emancipation, he would ever give it his pub lic support, differing from the Honourable Baronet who wool 4 not- give it his vote, unless at the price of certain stipulations.—(ltear.) But after the 'demotion with which the Hon. BMW's speech was received to-nigh., it was idle to say that the hopes of success were not greatly diminished. And though he should vote with his Right Hon. Friend, many one else who brought the question forward, yet he confessed, after whet he had heard, and the prepara tion for secession which he had witnessed, he conceived the hopes of success to be so improbable, that leaving the blame of the failure in the hands of the seceders, lie would advise Ills Right lion. Friend to withdraw the motion, and not expose himself to the chance of an almost certain defeat.— (Hear, hear.) Mr. TIERNEY rose to say, that lie was no party to the designs charged against his side of the Home by tee Right Hon. Gentleman. lie disclaimed all intention of either marring the success of this question by throwing obstacles in its way, or impeding its progress by seced ing from its support. Ile %hilted to stand acquitted of such fearful responsibility. So far from hiving become lukewarm in the cause, hie was ready to pledge himself, in the words of the Right Hon. lien:tem:o, to give it his feeble sapport,by whonisoever or when ever it was brought forward.--(Hear.)—luring once convinced of the recti tude and justness of the-principle, he thought that no difference of opinion amouirst those who were equally friendly, or combinations amongst those opposed to it, should induce Lim to swerve from the course which lie conceived to be most essential to the prosperity and honour of the British Empire. But whilst he Kalil this l , lie concurred with t h e lion. Baronet in the genera tenour of his reasoning--tie believed that all remonahle hopes of success were at an emu. Who the real authors of this disappointment to the Catholics were, however, let an impartial public judge. His Hon. Friend had rightly said th it it was bet a mockery to call the atten tion of this House sear after year to the grievances tin der which the Catholics laboured, whilst at the same time it was admitted that any chance of these grievances being redressed was hopeless.—(hear!)--He (Mr. T.) li,lievail that the Right lion. Gentleman had rightly quoted the words used by him on the occasion alluded to by the Hon. Baronet; but he (Mr. T.) was bound to say, that the impression which they made upon his mind at the time, was the same as that spoken to by his lion. Friend. lie certainly understood the Right Hon. Gen tlemen to say, that he despaired of the cause, unless an Administratfon could be farmed friendly to it At least, if these were not his exact words, this was the infereice which they furnished. . Mr. CANNING he r e SAM, across the table, that be did not think sash an Adminiett talon absolutely necessary to the success of the cause. hlr. TIERNEY, in continuation, said, that whatever form of words the Right lion. Gent. used, lie was at li berty to assume from the facts that the success of the lare lh.a wa s hopeless, unless under such a Government as he had described. Let it he remembered that the ques tion upon which lie was now epeakinc was not new to this Homo, or one of which the probability or improba bility of success was yet to be calcislateil. Since the year Iffoa, when Mr. Fox first brought it for yard, it had been made a serious matter of contest in this House; and after en many failures, who could say that unless Government adopted this cause, it had the smallest chance here Of the suecess of it here in another was th little erplace aosb ?--.4 , 11:e b a ec t iese it had succeeded here be. fore, bat be (Mr, T.) believed that henceforth - the Catho. _ or calehlate witch @pop the friendly disposie i3;iisri The Right Hon., Got. hash sail ,sse s tit i ssi .e to frame an .4tiednaltration whe, worrld be agreed upon toil question. lie (Mr. 7), theught otherwise. This might have been true during the.. iste reign, bat let the Honselook at the atate of thing/Mir ',year pef o relast, wistov tide pnhji*t art's b ro ught forward. It was then the beginning of a ue.v reigren, an aid it t was ins pussiblelif sal thiiieiCn dice the greait e rairriciiiiii 1 ant visible in the saithatints of public men upon this sub. • et, at compared with. the preceding reign. ..Thelate. King, without wiping, atty,diarespect tv ins memory, was known to hate& milerlatned such rooted opinions— such strong prejudice& if might to N. and to have hail the bias of hie Min d ea warped by artful men upon this subject, that he did net-hesitate to declare his rho- 1 lution, if both Houses pissed the measure, to tXerciser privilege, however little lased In modern times , of OW g his veto upon the Bill. Under such a Monarch all hopes of success were of course visionary; and Gentlemerehuses ever interested in the measure, were justified in keeping their places, without making any particular stipulations. Now, however, that difficulty was got over, and we had upon the throne a man whose mind was open to conic tion on the subject, andwhose opinions were said;to 44 rather friendly than otherwise to it. At last rause a Par liasneut which ventured to view the matter in the same friendy light, and mailer these ciremnatences then, wash too much to say that the question was placed upon a fair" footlpg of success? But let the House look at what fol lowed, and they would be enabled to judge who it wts that rendered all Giese hopes, so fairly formed, visionary and nugatory. The Right lion. Gentleman had profess ed himself the advocate of Catholic Emancipation. Fur his splendid exertions in that cause, public awl private, no WWI was more ready to offer an aelatiowleilgoieut thee be.(alr.T). was. He was persuaded that the Right lion. Gentleman bad, from his heart, lent all the *id of hie powerful eloquence to promote the success' , of that ques tion. Of the Attorney-tieneral for Ireland—if, afterwhat passed a night or two ago—that Right lion. Gent. sr is atilt in office, he was bound to say as much. Finer dis plays of the most splendid eloquence than had been re peatedly made by that Right Hue. hiewletnan in that cause, had never been heard in this or any other place. Nor should he forget the exerlions• of ass ealuee Right Honourable Gentleman in offi ce (Mr. Wynn),whose sup port he believed to hav , been dictated by the most lio n nimble awl just feelings. But this conduct could not be persevered in consistent with other objects, which were of greater moment to thess Gentlemen —they could not keep out of office.—{Cheers.) Their exertions gra dually relaxed after a certain period, and the d a ises of the Catholics. so urgent before, might have slept in obli vion, if the Attorney-tleneral for Ireland had nut cons ndtted himself to tar cause, by the conspicuous part which he had previously taken in it. But why had nut these Gentlemen a proper sense of their own importance, and made their terms before they accepted office ? The paucity of talent for which the a Iverassies of Catholic emancipation were so remarkable, would have made them lie courted at any price.—((fear.) When the occasion demanded their services for the Ministry, Lord Liverpool and another great lawyer—(a laugh)—were too disinter ested to interpose any private prejudices in an arrange ment which the necessities of the country seemed to de mand. Did the Right lion. Gentleman think he would have been in his present place, it his services were not wanted ?—(ilear.) Or was it, that an understanding prevailed. when he left their councils before. that lie was shortly to return, as if the Right lion. Gentleman could say in the pastoral language of the poet— " So sweetly she bade me adieu, " I thought that she bade me return." Coni.l it be doubted, but that with the splendid talents of the Attorney-General for • Ireland, Ministers mould have accepted of his cooperation at any price ? The crisis was so pressing, that Levi Li %Trion') was willing to have the assistance of the first talents o f the country Upon any terms. But what did these Gentlemen, who bad the affair in their own hands do? . Without any stipulation they entered upon office, and consented to co-operate with men whose views were directly opposed to their senti ments on so important a question, and they were now willing to lay the whole odium of its failure in a quarter where it was not deserved.—(Hear.) Thus it appeared to him that a strong case seas made out against Ali- Waters, and that his Honourable Friend was war ranted in all he had said on this subject. If the Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite haul taken the part which was expected front them, the question would not be now upon the principle, but up In the details, of concession. But 1 that was all lost now, and there was no longer any chance of success for the measure. Why the Attorney-General for Ireland should bring it forward, under existing cir cumstances, was more than he (Mr.T.) could understand. When it was first announced that Lord Wellesley was go ing to Ireland as Lord Lieutenant, and that the Right Hon. Gentleman was made Attorney-General, he (Mr. T.) entertained strong hopes. that the Catholic cause would he much enhancel by the change. The Rigtit Hon. Gen tleman knew that soon after the arrangement of the Mi nistry last year, he (Mr. T.) met and questioned him as to the stipulations which he had made upon this subject. He was surprised to find that none had been thoug''t of, and that nothing substantial was gained but office. — (Hear.) The question then was left to stand upon its own merits. But it appeared to him most unwise to bring it forward at this time. If it was true that the present state' of Ireland rendered the discussion of the Attorney-Gene- 1 ral's conduct unseasona ble a few ni g hts ago, surely the subjection made much more strongly against the discussion of a subject, which was in its nature c &elated to excite irritation. Let the motion be successful or otherwise, in either case the result would produce unpleasant conse quences. If it was successful, that party would be pro voked whose hostility seemed to be so much dreadcd ; and if it failed, the great body of the Catholic people mast feel that their interests have been trifled with, by ex; °ring their claims to tertain rejection. At such a crisis, then, lie could not think that man *a true friend to the cause, who should bring it forward. The conduct of those who openly opposed the measure was more honourable and praiseworthy. Let Gentlemen say what they would, he could not think those sincere in their support who were chained to the chariot wheels of Lord Liverpool and the Lord Chancellor. It wood be more manly with the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Peel) to declate that the passing of this measure would he injurious to the best 1 institutions of the country. That Right Hon. Gent. had declared that he never would come to terms upon this subject, though he acquitted him of making it the price of any stipulations. 'l' he opportunity of making condi thins was now gone by. But the Right Hon. Gentleinaa said he had a discretion to bring on this questtin; or to withdraw his notice as he thought lit. He (Mr. T.) wished to give no opinion upon what course should he pursued. lie-would not say whether it was wise to trust the question, under present circumstances, to the !louse ; but if be declared his resolution of going on with it, lie would give it all his s uport.—(Hear.) In the event of a division on the Bill, the course which he (Mr. T.) would pursue, would be in accordance with the teeinions which Ile had elwaysavowed, so that the Right lion.Gentleinan was too precipitate in, charging every Member at that side of thetionse with a design of abandoning the cause. Cutler aoy circumstances he would give the cause his support; and it the Bight Hon. Gentleman held out any prospect of success. in the other House, the result ner d not yet be despaired of. It had been said, that the mea sure was snaking progress. He (Mr. T.) rejoiced at ii, but lie disapproved of the interruption whsicb it had suf fered during the last Session, and he feared for its ultimate success in a new Parliament. He had no hesi tation in saying that he considered the Right lion. lien