The Statesman. — London, England, 1820-10-23 00:00:00

THE STATESMAN. The Earl of Lienarool. answered that the sags in cluded the Milan Commission, bat not the witnesses under it. TILE QUEEN• gOUSE OF LORDS.—(Tstis kloontee.) n o p e ers were called over immediately after players. f y e a/rashers were Lords Erskine, Carrington, and Lu po, and the Earls of Mayo, sod Carrick. vivo gad of HARROWIT brought up the report of lb , g oo d Committee, appointed to examine the ex too f r om the correspondence between Col. Brow* 0 ,1 B r . Powell relative to Rastelli's absence. The veer/ as read by the clerk of the House, and although „ ow o f some length the entire substance of it may be w o ro rood from the following sentences. Colonel si rote several letters to Mr. Powell expreuivo dupe satiety felt by the families of the witnesses now ie mislead, in c onsequence of the reports in Italy roe the disturbance at Dover. These rumours, as Mof with all rumours, exaggerated the eircuto. sow , s od the witnesses, it was said, were brutally m g. tee murdered, and there were doubts as to to „ w ry of several others. Colonel Brow* low ko o d by begging that a person might he dads, to compose the minds of their fa• s i c m od Mr. Powell, in compliance with this en. I . l oopetched Rastelli with directions for him "to 10 . 0 4 i the Ist of October. Colonel Browne, how ter. i s the subsequent correspondence, expressed his two , o li o Rostelli was ehuAiwa. and wished to avoid „ w ag. if• possible ; for he was by no means sods tei oda die reception he had met with in Eoglaad. Mr. l ow a's replies impressed on Colonel Browne th , A w hile Necessity of Rastelli's return ; and the f o n d e r of Colonel Browne, being the last of the soompeadesce, describes Rastelli as being ill of a f OO O, and confined to his bed. It was ordered, that the Report should lie on the Ib, sod be printed. remise! were then called in. (M Counsel rowing to the Bar, Mr. Beocanatt requested to have Mademoiselle Dement called to the Bar. After a pause et about ten minutes, during which period expectation stood on tiptoe again to behold this paragon of perfection, The Sotactros-Oexasat , informed the House that this lady could not then be And. Mr. Vixard stated *Ash, would not ha wanted until 12 o'clock, and she west away with that impression. Mr. :ocute to hoped they would have the good ness to send for her. The Learned Oentletnan then addressed the House. In the preamble of the Bill be fore tleir Lordships, her Majesty was accused of great isimeacy of conduct. It was also assumed therein, that is consequence of this vicious conduct, great sandal sad dishonour bad been brought on the Royal 'say. That the same Royal Personage had de- Zher station, and brought herself and t he Ro y al il y into contempt. is the eyes of foreign na tem. He had evidence is his hand to show, tiot tke estimation in which her Royal Highness was hiN by foreign nations, was wholly incompatible with *statement in the preamble of that Bill. He then proiseed an Austrian °nett,. in which, after de- Villesig her Soya hlighness, as a POWeraa of great adunr, it goes on to state, that she arrived at Trieste, on the 15th of April, at twelve o'clock in its forenoon, end left it at five is the evening, of the following day, accompanied by all those manifesta tion of joy usual on su:h occasions. TVOPATTOSIN ET-OaN la A I. could nut avoid expressing Vseftstonishment, that his Leared•Frienil would read be contents of that paper, well knowing, that it could sot be received in evidence. What would their Lord ships say, if he had produced Continental papers, describing, as many of them did, the Princess in a very different manner ? The SottcrronDue elm. did not know what name he CO:1 1 .1 give this attempt of Mr. Brougham to make au int, ression on their Lordships' minds. His Learned Friend must well know that it could not possibly be nceirrd in a court of justice. Sr. BSOUGWAS: Was quite willing to admit that multi not he received as evidence in a Court of Jr 'ace. Bat he (tlr. B.) was standing in a very different plate from a Cower of Justice. In a Court of Justice he should be ?Nem challenge the Jurors. He should be able to object to the p-osecutors, to the party that had employed his Learned Ft lends. He should be able to prevent she same party from appearing one day in the character of prosecntors, and the next, changing their nature, and assenting the character of Judger , . If his Learned Friends would change that Honse into' a Veen of Justice, and grant him all these admissions, he was ready to withdraw his evidence. The Lotto CHANCILLOR said he was ordered by the House t o i n form him that that paper could not be receiv ed as evidence. Lieutenant HOWNAM was then pot to the Bar, and produced his dirk one of the order of St. Caroline. 31,. BROC4:IIINI—is that the seal of that order ?--It is. The witness II en withdrew. Tie Interpreter here translated to the Honse the di plomas of the different gentlemen of the order of St. Caroline- Bert ami was designated Brand Master, and Lieutenant llownam, Mr. William Austin and some others were created Knights of the Order, with remainder to the heirs wale. Ihr dirlomas then went on to describe tl.o ornaments which should be worn by the tii.Terent members of the Order. The description did nut materially differ from that of the ornaments which are worn by the Noble Knights of the Barter, the Mali and the Thistle, but their Lordships laughed very heartily while the Interpreter was reading. The [Julie of Sorranwr observed that he now wished to ask Lieutenant Hownam a question, but at the suggestion of Earl they the Noble Oahe con tented to wait until the Queen's Counsel should have closed the defence. Lord iiiII.LAND now rose, and referring their Lord- Alps to the aerunnt oa the table of the sum expend ed in these proceedings, remarked that he had observ ed a man of no less titan eigAteeis thorn:ad pentads If.:r secret wrier.. He wished to ask the Noble Lord what was meant by this item, or in other words, what was the nature of these secret strikes. The Earl of Ltvanroot. said, that as the transit firm, up to th , Parliamentary proceedings, was a se cret transaction. the services for it were paid out of the fund annually voted by Parliament for secret services. Till Earl - of Dassuts wished tO know whether this sum included the expences of the Milan Commission, and of the witnesses examined uuder it. A considerable pease now ensued, as the witness Dement was momentarily expected to make her appear- aece. During this pause the Earl of Lauderdale came towards the Bar and entered into a conversation with the Attorney-General: but as we did not bear it, we cannot give It to our readers ; 'but even if we had heatd the conversation we should have abstained from report ing it, as the conversation could not possibly have any reference to the present proceedings. It being intimated that Mademoiselle Demont was is In attendance, Mr. DENMAN rose and said, that before the witness I re-appeared, he wished, that no misconception might possibly arise, to state the object of his desiring to re-examine her. lie should examine her to certain declarations be could prove she had made. If she should admit that she made these declara tions, it was very well, and his Royal Client would have the benefit of that admission. If, how• ever, she should deny she had made those declarations, be proposed caUing witnesses to contradict her. The Lord CMANCILLOR was of opinion, that the Learned Counsel could not take this course. The ex• amination of the witness had been finished, and any Ifurther question from the Counsel, must be suggest to the House, and put by their Lordships. LOUISE LEMONT called in, and re-examined by Mr. WILLIAMS. Do you know a person named Martini?—No. Not a woman of that name who lives at Mauge?— No. The person of whom I speak, is a milliner of that place?-1 know a milliner called Martine, at Mauro. Do you remember seeing that woman under the amended name in 1818 ?-1 have seen her several times. Ido not recollect what month. But in the year 1818 ?-1 do not recollect, but 1 may have seen her in that year. Do you remember sending fur that woman to alter a bonnet for you?-1 cannot recollect ever sending for her, because I did not reside at Mauge. Did you see her in any part of the year 1919, shoat this bonnet ?----I may have seen her, I cannot positive ly recollect, whether I did or not. Now I wish to knew, whether you had any conver sation with her, about the Princess of Wales, in the year 1819 ?—.I do not recollect seeing her in the coarse of that year, I cannot recollect having any oenversa tion with her. Do you not recollect seeing the woman Ma e, after leaving the service of her Royal Highness ' Yes, I have sees her afterwards, Had yon any conversation with her then about her l Highness the Princess of Wales ?—I do not re ? t, whether I had any conversation ; it ma y be, t I do not recollect it. Do ris not recollect the woman Martine, speak!' Is you epos the sobject of the Princess's journal 410 not • -- ef the ' Pr versa' lb.: I blot i De ups moll Tor do you recollect sa v ing any thing to her about any of the persons surrounding her Royal Highness? I have often spoken of the Princess, but not of those who surround her. You do not remember Martine saying any thing to you about the conduct of the Princess of Wales E.-- 1 do not recollect any conversation with her about it. It may be, but I do not recollect. Do you remember being at Mange?—Yes, I have been there several times. I wish to know. if you remember this woman Mar tine putting this question ;—whether the Princess was not a woman of Intrigue ?—1 du not recollect. Ido not recollect having any conversation with her re specting the Princess. Do you mean to say you had not a conversation, and I that the woman did not put the question I have niela tioned ?--I do not at all recollect it. Do you mean to say the question was not put to you? I don't recollect if this question was put tome; 1 have no idea of it. Do'you remember becoming angry when the slues. lion was put to you?--1 do not recollect this conver sation ; I have not the least idol of it. Did you say to the woman Mllrtine, that all which was said against the Princess were calumnies, and that it was her enemies who spread such rumours:—l do not recollect any thing like it ; I do nut recollect it at all. I wish to know if you will swear that you did not say so ?—lt may be, I will not swear. I have mot the least recollection of it. Before I was called I was pat on my oath. I never said any thing of what passed in the house of her Royal Higlines.. Then you will swear that you did not use these en- pressions I have repeated, or any thing to that effect? , —I h tee not the least idea of such a conversation ; I do not recollect it at all. Bat will you swear that vou did not say so ?--I will not swear, but I have not the least recollection of it. Did you not say to Martine, that at the time you left the Princess, she was surrounded with spies ?—I never could have said so, because I, myself, never saw any spies. Will you swear you did not say what I have we repeated ?----I will not swear, I do not recollect having said so. I thought you said you could not have said so, be cause you never saw any spies ?—I do not recollect having said so et all, Ido not recollect this con versation. I have no idea of it. I thought you said you could net have said so, be cause you saw no spies ?—I do not believe I said so. Will you swear it 2.-1 will not swear, I do net re-, collect it. Idu not recollect this conversation at all. Again ; did you not say. that the most simple se dos of the Princess's life, was always misinterpreted ? —I don't recollect ever saying so. Ido nut recollect, this conversation. Will you sweat, that this conversation, nor no part of it passed in the year ISIS ?--I cannot swear, I do not recollect any thing of it. , ;g the Do you remember ►isiting a Ironton called at Mange?---I have bees there several times. is the year ?--I was several times there after quitting the service of the Ptioceis, but I nut re collect where. Were yon ever on a visit to the person you just men tioned ?—Yes, in ISIB. Have you ever had a bonsai altered by person of die name of Marchini ?---It may be, but je acme reps rile pea. Have you not said to the same person that you were always about the person of the Princess ?—.le ae vie rappelle pas. Will yon swear that Marehial did not say that as you had always been about the person of the Princess► you must have observed all her actions 2--Je me me reoppelle pas. It might be, bat I have not the least re-1 collection of it. Will you swear that it did not occur, if not In these words. at least, to that effect ?--Je :re me neppelk pas. 1 Will you swear that Marchini did not ask you if you saw any thing unchaste in the conduct of the !Princesa?—Je a. me rappel's pas. Will you swear that you did not reply, If not in these words, at least to this effect :--" My Ood, no. It is imposeible. There dues not live a more chute frgronsan than the Princess?"—l do not remember baring any conversation of this kind with Marchini. Will you swear that you did not use these eitpm lions ?—Je lee m♦ rappelle pee. Bit Ido not think that if she asked me that question, I would have given that answer. Hare you not said to the same person that the only friend the Princess had was the old King ? —I have not the least idea of it. Will you swear that you did not?-1 will not swear. Hare you been at Mauje is Nov. holy?-1 have been there several times. I might have been there then. 1 wish to know vshetber you have any recollection of it?— It might hare been, but je me me rappel's pas. Did not Marchini ask you whether the Princess was muck affected at the death of the Princess Charlotte?— Je we vie Tappelk pas. And did you not say in reply. "Ties, it is very na tural, as she has lust every thing, when she lost her child ?"—Je we me reppelle pee. Do you believe that conversation did occur 7 Je we eras pas. I wish to know, whether you did sot say, that it was possible, after the death of the Primeessi:leartatte. her Royal Highness would make some diminution i■ her household ?—1 have not the least idea. Will you swear, that it did not occur ?—1 bare not the least idea. I wish to know, where was the first place she was put upon her oath relative to this business ? The CIIANCILLOR wished to know, whether she had been exonerated on that point before. If not, Mr. Williams should state to the House with what view he asked the qaestion. When were you first pat upon your oath respecting Princess - d appeared Princess's enndnct what she meant was examined ZRAL. been examin- any , Had vow ever said any thing about her Royal High ness before you were examined here?---I have spoken often of her *Royal Iltg!mess before 1 was examined at Milan. What do you mean by saying that before yon were put upon your oath you never said any thing about what passed of her Royal Highness f—l mean that I never said any thing about her conduct with Ilergami. Do vita mean that you never expressed soy thin; about her conduct with liergami?-1 made enr deposition at Milan. By the Earl of Latocanaut—ii'hat was the day of the month when you left her Royal Highness at Pesaro? —lt was the beginning of November. 1 don't know the day. Before yonr leaving her Royal Highness at Pesaro *td , aceounts coins of the death of the Princess Charlotte ? Mr. B11101:6111AM now proposed, that a witness, who was in attendance. should be brought to the that Dumont might see her. • Mr. 501.'417011 UIVIIIRAL opposed this, and E'en*. plained that his Learat-et "Ffiencl was in the habit 01 hesisting upon whatever he wished. Mr. Boot:Gnaw said, he was always unwilling le insist upon any thing, which was not usual. Mr. B1101:011tNI•S proposal was rejected, and the witness was then ordered to withdraw. MADAME FOI . RCHETTE MARTINEZ was then brought to the Bar, and sworn. Examineildby Mr. WlLLtsur. Are you the wife of henry Martine?—Yes. Of where ?—Mange. lam a dress-maker. Do you know Madame Demont ?—Yes. How long have pin known her ? From the time she was at Mange, till she was going. War that iefore she entered the service of the Princess of Wales:—Yes, a long time before. What age was Demont when you first became ac quainted with ber?—.lbout 16, I think. Do you remember seeing beniont at Mange. nny time in the year 1919 ?—Yes, in April. On what occasion ?—1 t was at the house of Madame Jacquerean, where I was calling for some work. Had you before then seen the journal of Madame Demont ?--1 had. When you saw Demont there, did you speak to her about her Journal or abut the Princess of Wales ? Yes. Do you remember asking her any question respect ing the conduct of the Princess of Wales?—Yes, the first time I saw her after 1 bad read the Journal. Did you ask any question respecting the conduct of the Princess of Wales?—Yes. What question did you put to her?— Mr. ATTOANZT-OZNIMAL objected to this question. He was at a loss to conceive how the answer either way could be wade evidence. After some discussion, their Lordships ordered that the efideitee of Demont should be referred to, as to her denial of the conversation with Madame Martinet. That_ part of the evidence was accordingly referred t o , and MP. Bessegisais then again preload the question, whir* YU vain objected to by the Counsel fur the BA Do you not recollect the woman Martine, speaking i the princes a? all ? . • - ton upon the . abject of the Princess's journal ?..--il- Were a discussion arose as to the ternvoof p not at all recollect bee talking to me on the auliect question ; when it was at length decided tb he ournal. ' ness's f o rmer answers on this subject 'Mould Clo j you untlak Vt. say that yma dam* lusidr e si‘itipe mg tesA 03 bre% Her .eddirgo. we *kiwi **eh* ag es , a c accordingly referred to, by which reference Cation twin Vile woman Martinet ... a . L i she said she never had spike, of the Princes journal t—l play have had a a'a ftliat4 " """' I before her examinarion; on being asked wha or ', but Ido not terollt rt it. .. , . Iby this, she answered, 1 mean before Iwa Do you not remember this woman sprawls% lire . here. on the conduct of the Princess of Wales ?-1,4 0 not Examined by Mr. SOLICITOR-OENZR ollect it. Before yon were examined here had you ht -- - .. • _ .t.:__ ~ 1 ,...1,„„i , ell any where else:--Yes, at Milan. this wit. • - - Lord EitiKlNlt spoke in support of the question, $M contended that it was a proper luestion for the ptirpote of leading to a rontradietiottof Dettiout. The objectien of the Counsel for the Bill appeared td his Lordship to confound the distinction between the admissibility and the effect of the etiJonce now offered. He conceived that at all .•vents it was clearly admissible, though its effect would be lot the after cobsideration of their lard sh i ps. '1 he It 4111 of 11.AftDERIIALS opposed the putdolt i ilit the question. Ile conceived It would lead to Loads ntissible evidence. Lord N•taltlNl expressed his astonishment that a Oen of the talents cid experience of his Learned Friend should support the übjectlen. The Lo D Cu ‘Ne :punt said, their Lariliships were not at present called upon to decide ern % the justice of his Noble and Leirned Friend---(a to pronounce as to the admissibility of the evidence 'now proposed by the Queen's Counsel. His Lurcisdilp said. may be mistaken, but I consider it evtdetsce beonsisc to effect the general credit of Dumont, and 'ititifsde ailmissible.--(Cries of Hear, hear, and Do tro.)•, • What question did you put to Demont bkitt. thought The Piinccss was a Libertine; that was Nen my frank opinion. What answer did Mademoiselle Detnontniike ? She put herself in a great passion, and said it was a ca- • limey invented by the enemies of her Royal Highness to ruin her ; that she had never observed my thing about the Princess but what was good : she toI•1 us that ever since the Princess had quitted Ragland, she bad been surrounded with spies, and that Peery action she did with the test intention was misin terpreted ; thit the Princess knew very well that she was surrounded by spies, but she never did any thing but what all the world might observe. Do you remember observing to Demont, that as she (Demont,) Was always about Ote'ltineess, she (Demont,) could observe all her Royal Hight4sa's actions!? • This question was objected to, and after a conversation be.ween the Lord Chancellor ;Mb • Brougham, was withdrawn. Do you remember any thing being said tm about the old King ?—She said in the coriredititisia that the old King was the only support Old /quaked had in England. Do yuti know Demont well, and does.4cmnat,lanetr you well ?—Yes. LORDS' PROMS?' AGAINST 1118-8 CO.VNITTER. Because this Resolution appears to be ifftoltsistent with the principles upon which all rodrts refine' to goos.. pel the production of an. 7 part of the rooffdent, ehr• . respondence of protastional persuns, emplo tially as such, in the- matters to which the cur eace relates. • Because no particular eirettmstaneesio this cue appear to be sufficient to authorise our not adhering to the rules of prueseding, funsailed on those principles. Because, therefore, this Resolution, if arted are, -ae a precedent, may IfiAgetinsly affect the athsilitialttltitit of justice. Eldon, C., (211-4'ittlidry, Rues, Montague, Seiner,. Farnham, Nurthatni , friti, Limeriek:Salteiferds• Wilk§ and Lochleven, Buckingham, Kingston, Orford, .Mkt•- elesfielit, Kenyon, Digby, Shaftesbury, ntainferal and Warrington, Lonscile, Huntingdon. Mansfield, 'titles dale, Meitirmn, Falmouth, Abinploe, North wick, Barris, Walsitigh.tn, Napier, Clinton, Carrington, Loftus, Belmore, Mayo, bray, Forbes, Stuartof Castle Stuart, Coventry, William, Cornwallis, Avleslowy, Chatham, Poivis, Cathcart, Sit angst, Ramona), Rid,- mond, Satlitl:l, Brook i and Warwick, Winchester. ' 11 . • ON THE NEW COINAGE OF HALF CROWN% Oar Mona's+ whiled a Crmirtt upon bit bead; Bet, as if loyalty were lost, or dead, (let not enough to make real Georgey Reim?) They've set his head upon a Gutf•a.crown. By the List at Lloyds this morning, we are writ to find that great damage has been sustained ansonicsa the shipping at sea, by the late tempestuous Last ?donelsy the iuhabitanis of the Ditchling, Sasses, assembled iu the iasarit\ Room of that place, the Constable of the the Chair, and unanimously voted an Add. Queen, to be transmitted to Loudon for preach her Majesty, by Mr. Aldetrmau Wood. Secroan's rnost•vsa ESTA•LISHED Clergyman in the neighbourhood of Newt' , the habit of omitting prayer fur the Queen. sion gave such umbrage to his parishioners. Sunday lately, when M . came to that part rice in which he might hive introduced her name, his congregation unanimously aroee the Church. This secession produced a form in the Clergyman's devotion, and has induced him to pray for h:r Majc:ty with fessional fervour. PERSIIIT or FRANKLIN, •1.1511 FLEWS'S.— prehension we expressed on Monday last, respectim exertions of Air. Pearson, has unfortunately tore to be too well founded. Mr. Pearson has rest France, as well as Vickery, having aseertait scent which they were directed to follow was it is concluded, therefore, as we hare consul. posed, that the man who has eleede'l their search en England. Vickery, this forenoon, attended office of the Secretary of State for the home to render his account of the pursuit. On Saturday moraing, it is said, a at the Public °filen & Bow-street. an I following information privately :—On he was on the beach at lianisgate, man of gentlemanly appearance came tc offered him thirty guineas to take hitt inernedii sea in his boat, and land him at the nearest the coast of France. He refused, and the n away apparently munch ruffled anal disappuinsed. or two after, she informant saw the posting-bii a reward of Ilrol. for the anrefiensina alias Franklin, with a description of his person, which he bad no &mkt that it was that man oho .? to hien on the beech. Ile particularly observed ' son ; and the description given in tile bills ', every respect with his appearance. Last night. at A o'clock, a Ere broke out baker's (Nastayth's, we believe) io Old " It raged with the utmost violence till when it was so for subdued ai to preclude hension of further damage. The premiers stroyed. The loss of peoperty is very great • &NI • ' J s I t 'e err WWI y •• Itd WOO* et itts weather. Pari , b of ,rity School limidred in !rrss to the .sentation to ;liettee.---A i. 10: bite/ 'pis in Thit;prnis- ers, that une t of the !kr- er Majesty s Life and 11 It complete re- as ever since all doe pi sit.—The ap- especting the r tornel out rturned inns that the was false. It latently' lute- trarch is still r wird at-the departnient man ealletl Y q I !rare the lAy re'nnight e, when , a to hint. and itnediately t i est point isis te 11.11111 Went red. A day bills. offering of Fletcher. person, (rant h.• appLeJ reed his • s accorded is it at a sugar- -10 estint k, 'e say appre- .1 sft trete de- :at. •f 1 4 I . r - • • •IIC. • ~r . r Ivo' •