The Statesman. — London, England, 1819-05-19 00:00:00

_ THE fteAI'ESMAY; or strict siiscipliee be bed ever Miaowed, mere pesti. elderly in a Whig Army, who were set the most pa tient of severe regulations , . The ranks of Opposi tioe in late division , he was sorry to say had been swelled by the accession of some who were foremoit to hurl their "went associates from their seats of ' Mc.; he had the highest respect for these troops, bet suspected they bad, like cattails victors of anti. risky, bore spoiled by being nursed In the lap of in. dotter" daring a long peace. Ile NW nothing die ceeraging in the prospect of the dieisioe, for in the late cases the division had coosisted mostly, if not altogether, of constantly attending Mem. hers. Oo this occasion every bench was 'seeded, and he would entreat of each Member es men of public avid private cnosisteocy, to rally roved them principles which they had espoused for years with honour to themselves aid benefit to the World. If it was detersioed by artifice and ma nagement to overthrow the Administration, the friends of Government ought boldly to come forward mod speak their minds as uses, and not suffer the country to be imposed on by the 'email and arti fice of their antageoist. Hod any klieg like a case sigh as that assumed by the Right lion. Gentleman ham likely to have been made oat, it ',mild long ago ham been his indispensable duty, es an honest eau, le have broeght the present Administration to justice by impeachment. Os this occasion be had preferred the present mode as calcoleted to display bis activity in bringing chaste intoorder. Never bed Ad. sninistrstios been celled on to act in a character of more serious responsibility than upon the present oc casion, and they were sow particularly entitled to that support (ender whose auspices they bed been en abled se !slog to weetber the storing of war and as. care to the country all the blessings of a permeseot peace) epee a question like this, which was le fact nothing more thee whether the vivant Admisistra. *ion should retain their situations, or the Right He miserable Gentleman and his political friends be W elled to fill them. Mr. W. LAMB resole support the motion of his Right lion. Friend (Mr. Tierney). There might have been at time some difference of opisios shown se to the condect of the war, or the means of carrying it on, bat he would positively deny for himself sod his political Mends, that this difference of opinion bad ever ceased them to di or harass °ewers ment by refusing an adequate aid liberal simply. As this was a motion avowedly made teaseled@ the pre. lest Adsniaietration' he felt it due to his owe (vie mien of the Noble Lord's merits to state, that be considered his zeal and satiety for the public eel. fare, his caution in disposing of situations dependeet on his high office, and, shove all, the ability end ie. tegrity with which be had conducted duties equally difficult and delicate at the Genres, of Vitaea and that of Paris, constituted for him en eseeption highly honourable to himself. It would be impossible to apply censure to such cooduct.—[Lord cries of Ilear, heir!]—lt was necessary to take a fell and impartial view of the state of the country, and of the effects predated by the present Administration es the popular hellos& The planet Ministers were evidently unpopular; whelks areeetbet enpopslari. sy? Was It from the oessemptesces of the war, or from their heels( followed the plea laid dews by Mr. Pitt? If such wei the ease, It was ma nifest that this unpopularity was several years too late, for every war ought at its commencesseet to he resisted. The unpopularity of the present Mi. sisters also arose from the deficiencies of the pro. sent revenue, and from the disappointment of the friends of the Administration, who were, therefore, deprived of the hope of Weekly' by the espenditere of the public 'nosey. It was too true, that in this country, the return of peace was not the meson of calm, for overpowered with debts, the payment of the espencee and the arrangement Of the affairs pro. dated a werrieg of ioterests inimical to Internal coo cord. His Mojesty's pined Ministers possessed ea the confidence of the cowry, and the Hoes. could not with propriety confide in them, whom the e'en. try ceased to trust. What had the House been doles the present Session ? Was not its cesd•ct evi dently an espression of its disgust of Mielsters ? Modes of remedying evils, the esistenee •of which could not be denied, were mad* use of by the /loose which modes were escootoitetioesl. Committees were appointed for these purposes, sod has contrary to the Constitution of &egad, the Eseesitive of the• Pesky was dragged isto•ilso verses of oho linear It was futile, it wee deleakete speak of economy es affording mesas of retid.to the country, , for nothing effiectsal cored sheen take its Aright. Ile objeetkd to the unwieldy, cambross, disquieted Misistry winch sow gegeleted the State. The Noble Lord hid said, that there was an anion es Sheikhs bf theillwesese which he (Mr. Lomb) spoke, bet • why did not the Noble fond and his Colinegees istrodec• 'that union anon his own adherents? Ho wished that such onion existed in the Ministry, and that instead of yielding every question v such as the Poor Laws, se the tacit- lotion of party pointed out, a fixed line *said be Mks*, by which he sad other 'Members might be guided in the condect which they woeld in Were adept. The motion of his Right Hee. Friend was .seal as le allow the Howe to decide open the rupee .eibility of the Noble Lord and the Ministry, who would, Vibe House voted gluiest the motifs, be 's kewed frees the responsibility. Lord CLIFTON, in a speech of some loogtb, which was iessdible in the Gellery, spoke, as we sedersteml, in favour of the motion. Me. R. MARI'IN would sot hove bad the soda. city, sorrowed as the matter was within the limits of nut genii's, were the pretest Ministers adequate to their situation or not, of intruding himself en the House; baton a county Member, he hoped that he shosW be permitted to teaks a few observatioet.— Ile therefore ealled on the Right lionouroble [seeder of the ether side, to step into the arena et once, and there heat the Noble Lord end the present Ministers, nod is Imager continue the war behind posts, but boldly to met this Administration from their fore tresses, end then awed the Treasury Benches. The kith' Hee. Gestleman ought to name the Members which k nos desired shield stocepy the 'Realism tiled by the present Ministry, that the Heise might decide hawses she we parties. If the Gentlemen apposite knew of say means of relieving the coun try, nil did they set stale them openly; and if the UV" liaiwiittaed teem, Minister, he was sere, w ould 201 'PPON—s Properly or au Incise Tax, if proposed by the Gentlemen of the other aid►, toosiel not be objected to by the Adininistr lien. — For himself be rook! say, that he owed no obligation to the priest Adminittration; he bad canvassed ■ large county, with tire standard of Govoremeot foiled in his hand, lid had secomiled in his election. —(flear good lankler.)—lie had avowed his ad herence to the Administration, and yet his triumph g►eet over the minion of the Opposition, Mr. Bowes Daly. Cries of Qeestinis ! now resounded from all parts of t►e Deese, and we were preparing to loaf* the gallery while the division was to take place, when order was again restored, end wertteived Mr. W. WYNN on his legs impressing his opinion respectiog the molten, which seemed to him, as we esderstood, to resemble the motions for the Com mittees in the time of Lord North. The ditealtien and the determination of the Route, relative to the Eleetion Petition of Chippenham, ceased Sir R. Walpole to reliequish his situation. When he bad eotered the House, it was his intention to hive moved the preview question, but from the general feeling expressed by the Route, of having the matter pet to the vote, be war induced not to propose that motion. lie would, however, give no vote on the present sisestleo l _ _ - Lord JOHN RUSSELL considered that the en. popelerity of the present Administration was clearly ewitiosit. The coodect of the Hon. Member who heal jest sat down was a tacit censure on them, sad be felt certain, that if his 'Right Hoe. Friend had pro posed a direct vote of censer*, the lion. Member woold have voted in f i fit. The Noble Lord had accesed his Right lion. Friend of artifice ; but was the speech of the Noble Lord not an eassple of such practices? The Noble Lord bed said, that the kte wet was net for the destruction of the principles adopted by the Revelationists of Framer het for the eestoratioe eta Family to the Throne Of that coen• try, while it was evident, from the acts at the com utootoseot of the Revelation, sad from the observe. lions I. Mr. Burke's book, that the destruction of these priociples was the chief object. He rejoiced lo led that they were now firmly established is Teases, sod that a Ministry was there established which promised a long eentiosince of the blessings of peace. Why was *eh nation Europe almost united, deem the Peace of Paris against the welfare of Bop bed, and particularly Louis sod Spain ? Why was IM hoperisot question of the Poor Laws not investi. gated and regulated ender the direction of the Minis try ; that qwestlen, which, in its remits was of the r .st es t importance to the State? dis lamented Friend, Mr. H.,..,, feed said, and he agreed Is the ,statement, that the pemmetry of England were now reduced to a state of villanage, that peasantry which bad always been the sepport of the country. Wee not this chsage to be deprecated ? Whence did It arise ? Were the present Ministers innocent Oboe. log ceased it ? The conduct of the Noble Lord re• minded him of the condect of a person at one of the the. tres ih Freese*, who, !pan hearing thender, mt. claimed " That's my thunder ;" is like sensor the Noble Lord took to himself all the credit of the glow end levers weather, by means of which our ease" was defeated. His Lordship concluded by esyles, that his Right Hon. Friend had insisted wpm No very remarkablepoiot, that of hence, as one sanest ether considerations, en secooot of which his moth* ought to be acceded to. Mr. SINCLAIR opposed the motion. Sir FRANCIS BURDETT, after some prefatory ebsereatious, said, that the 'abject to which the me lieu now before the Hews. referred, was one so vest, and included so many objects, that the eye could scarcely take in the view which it suggested. He felt inclined to address the House on this subject as a Roman Emperor bad addressed the Senate—" Non scribes robin Pares Censeripti vet quid New pewees scribers," ke. if the object of the motion before the Haase was brought forward merely for the per. pose of effecting a ensues in the Adeduistrstiou, he was ready to say, that for his part ha did not see what great adwastige would be derived from it.— [Hear and sense leughter.j—He did Dot care what `Met his feelerla 'sight prates:li NI either side, if they served to elicit troth. He was surprised that the flenoereble Member who bad last spoken, and for whom be entertained mach personal respect, should have said, that the object of the motion be. forethe lion* was to hold up the Members of the Grovevonstrhtiolicerst Chi contempt; for if ever there was a debate .brought forweVd with little feellog leading to depreciate the character of an Administrs. tioo, it was the present one. An lion. Member who followed the Noble Lord (Mr. W. Lamb) had almost contradicted the forceetlis argument by his excessive candour lo praising ihe 'Noble Lord who had then jest eat does. •He bad described soother Member of the Admioistrotieo (Mr. Conning, we believe) as pee- • sealed of great and transcendent eloquence. It was, therefore, strange that the preseat motion should be conlldered as calculated to prorlero merely a change of the Adilluistratiow. llteHon. Member who follow ed the Noble Lord bad, indeed, stated, that Minis ters are very unpopelar ; bet he added that their unpopularity was owing to the hardens of the People which were produced in consequence of war. It was strange, If The obj•tt of the motion was merely to produce • thongs of Administration, that that Hoe. Member should hate stated that little was to be ex pected from economy. He (Sir F. Burdett) thought mach was to be eapected from ecottotly, end he thought it would be the only advantage which could be derived free a change of Admit)lstratiou.—[Hear! from the Opposition side.] —He was sorry to have beard the Hon. Member say, that nothing was to be It:pev a frotn Reform, by which of cootie was to be under stood Parliamentary Itefores.—[Mr. Lamb, we be lieve, here said, No!]—lle was glad to best that he bad not made this latter assertion ; bet in reference to what was said respecting the enpopularity of Mi. nisters as arising 'merely frons the *set of economy, he (Sir F. Burdett) 'meld say, that he knew the pre sent Admioistration to be justly unpopular through. out the coeotry at large, net merely is consequence of financial difficulties, bet on more important grounds—on the grounds that they had debserted all the ancient bulwarks of the Constitetion.—(Cries of Hear ! from the Oppotiiiox side.)--It was by ieb setviency to Ministers that the Parliament itself, though a new oou, bad become unpopular. Wben the Noble Lord was praising the discipline of the form, mastered, es he wit pleated to say, by the floe. Mtenber who brought forward this motion, he might be considered as at the same time making an harangue t o his own troop., whom he would call hi. beesehold goo rd.—( Hear, ;ear! and tangling on the Oppoi.. don side.)—He feared that no impression would be made on these diaciplinerlans t for a majority of the ftlnese still consisted of thi aomieets of Peers ; and here he oleic' not help saying, diet such interference in the election of Members ter that House, was in the highest degree opposed to constitational principles. —Such interference was eqeally uceostitetioaal es those Corrupt practices which were acknoeledged is being es clear es the son at noon-day. Hewing al lotted to corrupt practices which had been openly avowed end (Wooded in the Rouse, he would take the opportunity of mentioning, that he had not inter. feted en the subject of abases in one or two Bo roughs which had lately been brought before the ' Hoes*, because he thought it unjust to single out en. 11 a few of the Boroughs for punishment, when the ',stem that prevails in ell is the same. The Hoc Member proceeded to notice the estimate distress which pervaded the whole risanefactering and agri• cultural system. He believed, he said, that the Chancellor of the Escheqeer was at theca(' of all his mimes, and that if he were to prods*, en Income Tag, it would be seceded to by a majority in that Howie, however repugnant It might he to the feel*. of the People, for, although he was the least likely man In the world to dope any one, he bad persuaded the Home that a 11. note of the Bank of England, to gether with a shilling, was worth one gelato in gold, et a time when the loins. was selling in the market for much more.—(Cries of Hear! and Imegking ea Me Opposition side.)—The Hon. Member nest took occasion to allude to the state of Ireland, the People of which, he sold, were rather irritated than injured under religiose protester. With respect to that country, which had been so mach misooderstood, and concerning which so many absurd prejudices pre vail in Eagland, he said, that in the visit which be made there, he had been meet agreeably disappointed. Injustice and prejudice, he said, bad represented the Irish as savage, but if they were so, be could only say, that they were the gentlest on the face of the mirth. The Hon. Member here proceeded to pen se. venal bleb enlogiems on the character and disposition of the People of Irelaod, than whom, he said, there did not edit a nation more civilised (not even es cowing the polite urbanity of the French), nor one more humane and charitable. They were a People than whom none were more easy to be led, or more 'difficult to be drivesi.—(The praises bestowed on the I People of Ireland drew applause from both sides of the Howse.)—lreland, be said, was perhaps the only country in which, if a person were thrown on the ' shore, solitary and destitute of every means of support, he might travel over the entire country, and would I obtain the sympathy and hospitality of the poorest cottager et whose door be should present himself.— When he reflected on the system which had been adopted towards such a People, when be considered that some persons could gee only the few errors which might perhaps oust Is the Irish character, bet none of its virtues, it reminded him of the comparison of such persons to the beetle, which travels over the delightful field adorned with every object that is !motifs! and beelthfel, io order that it may at length settle and feed epos carrion.—(Gries of hear, hear!) —With regard to Scotland, it had been said that an important measure bad been curried for it. As to this me , he would only say—Acipio Omen, Misr fareinnigue ist. He was sfaaid, however, that the House would not give the Scotch that power which alone could procure thews redress, eamely t the power of electing those persons who were to dispose of their property. Tb. People of Eng. land had committed the same error as the People of Scotland, and it had been ovally destructive to each. He feared that they would not get redress. And yet without a Rational Reform nothing could be done that would give real force and energy to the measures of Government. Ministers might rest assured that there could net be a truly powerful and solid system of (Jovernment, if they were not supported by a House of Commons, possessing the confidence of the Country ; and that it was impossible that the House of Commons, unless a Reform took place, could pos sess the confidence and support of the People. With. out a Rational Reform nothing would be done even respecting the Poor Laws. With regard to the sub• jest of Visalia*, be would be very short. The ques tion, as the Book bad truly said, was not whether the should pay is specie, but whether the circus. steams of the country would admit of a diminished circelation.—[hear, /mar I) Mr. LA M B captained. Mr. Alderman HEYGATE rose amidst calls of Question ! and spoke in favour of the motion. He thought that there were grounds for going isto the Committee; sod that the House was bound to look to what might be saved by economy. Mr. W. DICKINSON thought there ought to be a motion for a Vote of Consisre on the Mi. ousters, who aro not able to conduct the affairs of the country with common comfort to thornselvetotill less with advantage to the country.—[As the Hon. Member spoke in a low tone of woke, and with hie back to the Gallery, he was isadibie to as during the greater part of his observational—lf asked whether Ministers bad the confidence of the country, he would answer sot; and in his opinion there could be bet one remedy, that of forming • wide end broad Ad. ministration. It was • defect of means and • system of imaginary money which swallowed op the monarchy of Frauce.—Pleer. hear ! . .1 Mr. MARKYAT said, that during the war we possessed the mouopoly of commerce almost over the entire world; and that we might bate takes advert. tap of our favourable 'Jimmies et the time of the General Prem.. but 'bat this bad not been done.— We understood the lion. Member, in 'Heeling to the measures of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, to say, that they were such as to have caused the Len. Jon Dock Sleek to fall from 127 to 00, and that he bed doubled the defy on tallow. After btviog al. laded to certain advantages which be stated to have bees thrown sway by the Hight lion. Gentian's, the lion. Member compared the condition of the costar, to that of a patient after a violent fever. lie did sot feel any objection to his Majesty's Ministers T f oltlybeip: power.rform performed thei ns e d d t e h t e y n t o o o t . h aad e Pe Loa hlle rn t od • theG Gent. opposite (Mr. Wynn) moved tbo previous question. he should base voted or it. That, however, n• having Iwo dwwi s It Would support the motion of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Tiarney). Mr. M A BEFILY mid, he would vote with the Right Hon. Gentle... opposite (Mr. Tierney), not from u wish to turn oat hie Majesty's Ministers, but because he felt that the registry was N a state Mkt Called for inquiry. They bad already some view .f what they were I. 'spec( from the system of inuell to be pursued. If they were to judge from the Re. pert of the Committee Mid spite the table some time back, there was to be n• Slaking Fend. Could the cowry, he would ask, go on without It t If It , was necessary to call sport the people for mom, they should consider him they amid be best taimd. Ile before gave it as his opinion, that the poor shield be relieved, abii tams laid, if they *ere necessary, epee ihese, r whe were side to pay them. A clamour was raised against the Report of the Bask Com. twitter., as tendiog to a contraction of the circulating medium. Ile saw so grounds for this. The Report appeared to his a foie, aid a good one. Mr. BANKES said, perhaps the intimacies of the State required aggressor Government. Bet be world put it to the Creatiewes to say, whether that stronger Government could be Nand on the opposition side of the House. He believed the divi4not would prove that opinion held within them *ails on that sohjact, and he was convinced that out of doors the Government stood us fair, or fairer, than soy other let of nes who could be selected would do.— Ether, he. could not bet consider it as on. fair towards the Chancellor of the Eachequ•r, to brio( forward the present motion, before an oppor. tufty had boon afforded to the Right Hon. Gentle man to bring toward his plat), be that plea what. ever it might. Mr. WILLIAMS Bed Mr. FRENCH, aeskist e loud cry of Question! supported the motion. Mr. CANNING said, the motion now before the House called oe them to iostitute an enqoiry isle the conduct of Ministers; and whatever the Right Hon. Gentleesso might say, involved is it the exisiento of the Administration, *hich it present possessed the coubdencs of the Crowe ; for the moment this me. lion was agreed to would prove that of the disco. lotion of the present Ministry. This motion; how. was f a i r; it wa s the proper mode of getting at the opinion of the Public as to the merits of an Administration. Ho (Mr. Castling) did not cousplaio of the motion itself; bet of the time at which It was brought forward. As he passed along he could not help @deeming to the opinion of an Honourable Gentleman she had se eloquently la. mooted tie conduct of bit Right Honourable Friend In stlemptisg to Impose a duty on tallow ; this attempt, and the good cesdect of his Right Hon. Friend is other respects, bed raised loch a conflict is the lien. Gentleman's mind, that to satisfy his con science as well as he could, be (Mr. Mama() 'amid take a middle emus* sod vote for the provisos gees lion.—[.4 leargh.)—Asother Hen. Gentleman (Mr. Wynn) bed also felt himself in difficulties us to how he should decide f sod that Hos. Gentlemeg having made his speech, dec./arid, that to Satiety his con science be *mild go home and p h lsed.--(4 laugl.)—New misery, it was said, mode vies se. gemmed with 'Users bed-fellows. He (Me. C.) would advise the lest Hon. Member to whom he had allotted, else to quit his place and p to bed with the other lloneureble Member,—[Lewd larghisig] —where they might condole with each other Da the misfortune of being in a *nation in which ha wss coweinced there were not sit other Ines besides themselves in the whole kiagdoes, namely, that of not being able to give an opinion one wsy or the other on the motion of the Right Hoe. Gentlest's. [Hear, hcer!)—The Right Hos. Gentlemen theft proceeded to take a review of the grounds on which the present niotion was brought forward ; and ten. tended, the', in (airmen end justice, the motion ought not to have bees brought forward tit! the platy of his Majesty's Government, respect's% the fi.nk s should be before the House. Ho also proceeded to jellify his Majesty's Government egaiost the charge brought forward by the Right lion. Mover, respect. leg the fate of Mr. Arbuthnot. He could asters the Right Hen. Gentleman that his Majesty's Govern ment could with much lees diMeulty have filled the world with outcries end reproaches, than, attested by their feelings, they could convince themselves.—. They were satisfied in refraining from expressing each sentiments towards America on this subject, as would have Involved us in a war with that commit,. The Right Hen. Gentleman then proceeded to der feed the conduct of the Government as regarded South America. From the commencement of the dispute between Spain end her Colonies, this country having st an study period offered a ow diadem, sod the toffee being declined, this country bed conducted Unit with impartiality towards each party. His .Majesty's Government bed indeed re• heed to accede to entails seclusive Trestles offered by Solids America. Government had indeed been guilty of tirades to turn the troubles of South Ame rica to the advantage of commercial men in this coentry. The Right Hes. Gentlemen then proceed. sad to repel tbrt barge of disunion, which had bees so frequently breeght forward spinit Ministers, sad deeded that he had say knowledge of dirunioe pro• failing amongst his Majesty's Ministers, except OR use greet subject; that was, on what was generally called the Catholic question. This difference of *pinion was well known to the supporters of Admi nistration at the time it was formed; end It would he most unfair of those supporters now to withdraw their support, became the Members of Adteloistrat loss adhered to the opinions they professed at the time they seceded to the Ministry. It was quite clear that in two memorable instances they bed failed la resisting motions which were inteaded to make them a Government of Committees. It had been said, that they wouid take an hints to retire frost the Adminis tration. Did the Right floe. Gentlemen ems to say that being blotto o• t•• motions.rhat wale hint for thew 'lb retire! If be did, they did net so awadenitaod it ; arid the division of that night would shew wM thaw they were In co out or net. tie }gig ot _t o ; was made so great, no hawse frame re momenta, of from follows of ear cu c by Petitions pyiDir the time Gentlest,. tor pl • hied that the badness 1 ; a sed ibf ore ini He the size of a folio voting , . sad which a Court disgrace • Pied roods* Ceert, Breen loin( darnigo. of Conscience world twit giro a fa of the H e for ft bad been said they were net popular la the coon whole eights, oo .e o cu oc is that would A