The Statesman. — London, England, 1815-05-27 00:00:00

I A I r , , is f )i: 4 F F . THE STATESMAN. Treaty which she had violated had got back many of war, but he doubted the expediency of insisting I [Hear, hear f ] —The question had beeit; Whether ie•iclites, set her acquisitions from till her prisoners upon it in the mode recommended. As the cnuse was tin should interfere to put down a milita r y sy s t e m bore but a small proportio n tit all the augtnentatinns common, and all thePoweraliail the same interest in France, hast ss hen a vote had been given in favour of force which the Confederated Powers had obtain• its success, in his opinion all wight to be upon a n jof an attack on France, it was their duty to pro et{ iii the interval between the cessation of the last equality, and although he concurred in the Address of , vide ate means of ca ) on that attack i n the most war and the present taoment. There was a very' yesterday s. it did not necessarily, as the Noble Lord el fi cie - t manner. lie was not eVer sanguine in his . great improvesneut in the situation of the Allies : bad observed, pledge his opinion as to the propriety hopes, but he thought there was a fair prospect of, for formerly the very positions occupied by the of voting the subsidies now demanded. His chief 1 iticcess. It was, however, to he recollected, tint Freed*, which;ditainished the fortes left for the de- objection was, that though our Allies were to be i half a century ago, Frederick of Prussia, by the fen:ce of Franey, imposed at the same time on the equally benefited, the principal burden fell upon ! superior power of his mind, supported himself against : Allies a greatly multiplied inconvenience.--The England only, and the system of subsidy of late 1 all tilligteet nationsof Enrope,although there was no- Freech held garrisons from the Vistula throughout years had been carried to au extent severely felt by' siting of that enthusiasm in his _people which consti. Germany - end on' tlielthTfir. They gave up by the the nation. It anneertd by documents upon the.iuted the great strength of the French at this moment. Coniention with the Allies, 56 fortresses, many of table, that since the year 1793 k Great Britain had ex- iHe was convinced, however, that it was impossible them most important bulwarks. In these garrisons, :Flu etr-u„subildies to Toreign states 4fi millions not ito remain at peace, and he, therefore, thought it they had during the last war great armies distributed • niclud• n other sums at VanCNI under of toebetter to attack France unprepared, while our 'lli throughout Europe; and the resources of which the names. Of these me ions 26.600,0001. had been , ante was fi rm, than to wait till France was prepared, • garrisons gave them the command, were greatly be- ; voted by Parliament within the last three years, and our alliauce was dissolved. Still less should he ymel the wants of the armies, and prevented those bas" ' manse quatitit• of clo ' - -ii" r hesitate on the second question, of granting a sub armies from being ally burden on France. Besides, ; supplied to the minor owers, and arms and money to a sidy to the other powers of Europe. Setting aside these garrisons reduced the Allies to the necessity'of Ho lland. i the subsidy which we might grant, we should be a detaching a much greater force for the purpose of rTA7I CASTLEREAGH observed, that Holland very inconsiderable State in the altiance.—[Near !] masking them than the force which they respectively i had only received arms and stores, but no money. i —The whole of the force we had in - the field was contained, that a line of communication might be ! Mr. I3ANKES was decidedly hostile to any ex- : 50,000 men, which was not greater than that of kept up from the frontiers of Russia and the mitre-- ' ertions or sacrifices, on the part of this country, that ; Bavaria.—[lieur, hear . I ]-1t w as necessary to con. !talkies of Austria to the French territories. He had I exceeded those of our Allies, more especially in the , tribute a fair share, which we could best do in money. seen supplies arrive at the Russian army, actually ' present state of our finances ; though he did not de- . A sum of five millions too, would be of immense brough from Russia, by the communication so kept spond, it was fit to-look our affairs in the face, and service to ,put the large armies of the Continent in up. More than 40,000 mess were employed before Iwe should then find, that though our revenue had , motion ; for though the Allied Powers were im. Datitzic ; mei more than double the number of the' augmented, our expenditure had increased in more . metisely strong within their frontiers, the state - of garrison of Dresden were also employed in masking ; thou s double proportion. Our revenue, in 1813, ; their finances, and the paper currency of several and besieging it. VVlien we compared the then si. ; was 63,000,0001., and in 1814, 72,000,0001. being .of those States, rendered it a matter of great dif. • welkin of the Allies with e hat it was at present. %elan addition of 9,000 1 0001. What was obi disburse- ficulty to move Piro smell armies beyond their frdn. • must see the immense augmentutiun which the pus. infest ? In 1813, it was 97,000,0001., and in 1811, tiers.—[lleitr, hear!]—One circumstance not so session of these garrisons gave to their mean's of car- 117,003,0001.—an increase of 2u,000,000t. within satisfactory, was, that the whole of the subsidy was • rying on foreign war. The House would not forget the last three years. Such was by no means a cheer- • paid by this country, and that name of the other • also that on the very frontiers of France a e had be- isig prospect, at the moment alien we were voting commercial counties, especially Holland and Pore, sides four of the strongest places in our hands, five millions to our Allies for a new war, besides - toga!, had contributed. Rolland had formerly hurtle whence in advance we could draw strength, or in what we should ourselves expend. It was true that a large share in the expences of the alliance against , . retreat could secure our safely. Were the fortresses we could not provide 150,000 mess ; but were...it in , Louis XI V. and was now .very well able to come .of Luxemburg and of Mayence of no value ? Was our power, though it might drain our population, it : forward with a considerable subsidy. Her coo the restoration of that chain of fortifications, de- would not drain the radical resources and wealth of , tingent at present was small, considering that she • stroyed by an infatuated Prince, along the Belgian -the country. The Noble Lord, and with him the, was the must in danger from the military power of t frontier, of no importance I Ile had the satisfac- other side of the Rouse, seemed to make op their ; Fence. The Prince of Orange had been enabled to .lion to state to the House that many of the chief minds only to one alternative, viz. that the war relieve the Dutch from a part of their burtheuS, - places in that part of the Netherlands were now in' would be short; it might be so, bat it-would be fit white the burthen of this country had been pro , a state that would enable them to make a vigorous to provide for its prolongation, and although lie gressively. increasing. Portugal too, in gratitude for and regular defence. [Hear, hear!) Besides these might consent to vote five millions if it were to be i her deliverance, should contribute to the ends of the we possessed Antwerp, Bergen-op-Zoom, Bredau, 46 the be all and the end all," it ought not to be , alliance. As to Spain, he thought any direct efforts • and blaestricht, powerful in aiding success, and forgotten Mat that sum and more would be required ;on her part could only be prodUctise of evil. No • most advantageous in redressing calamity. lie had every year that hostilities were continued. The ' army which she could send into France would be therefore a right to say, that though Providence money could only be raised by loans, which de- I strong enough to occupy the (lens d'Armerie, much alone.could prevent reverses, we had not only a just pressed all commodities of sale, and raised all those : less the National Guards, and would merely rouse a cause of war, but means worthy of such a cause.— of purchase. If, from the long struggle she had warlike population in favour of Bonaparte. There The military force of all the rest of Europe was maintained, England was not able to join •ith equal , were other arrangements which were not brought in ;combined against the half of France, which could vigour in this new contest, why was it not fairly i a definitive shape before the House, which he could .look alone to the Allies for ultimate liberty and stated ; and if her inability had theeffectof deterring not exactly approve of. These were the grant of -happiness. His Lordship admitted that it would be her Allies, who professed to be so hearty in the t suns; to Holland for the repair of her fortresses, most unjust and unnatural that all our Allies should cause, we might be sure that their spirit, even with • which she herself was well able to provide for; and be provided from the resources of Great Britain, but her aid, would scarcely be equal to the contest.— I a grant of money to Russia to pay her for the Co such a statement would he in opposition to the fact; Would they not fight with such assistance as our lorries we might receive from Holland, which seemed I other countries were making parallel maim's, and means fairly viewed would afford, and if so, why a most fantastical and incomprehensible pl an . Th ese we were contributing only in our fair wholesome did we volunteer the squandering of our money when ' measures would be better discussed when the treaties, proportion. Under these circumstances, without we could so ill afford it ? Contemplating the coo- : iti which they were arranged, came before - the - House; deta' . g the House further, he should only think it partitive dangers of peace or war, he confessed that , but as to the general measure of subsidy he fully ap. necessary simply to move the Resolution for grant- his fears of the former were not by any means so isig a sum of five millions, to be distributed between great as those of the Noble Lord, though he was by (be three great military Powers he had named. On no means desponding as to the result of renewed hos e future occasion the House would be called upon to tilities. If the Allies bad turned their ntleel to sect provide Ways and Means for raising this sum. rity, he thought they might have obtained that end Mr. 'flit NEIC asked for some information re- without making war upon France. A treat, with 80. garding Ornmerk T naparte would have been much safer than at the time Lird CASTLEREAGH said, that he wished now to when terms were offered him at Clititillon. Ile was avoid entering into particulars with regard to tht weaker in a military point of view,. and there had minor Powers. . been en interruption in his title, which, by making Ms. TIERNEY wished - to keow what part Spain him insecure at home, would resider him unable to was to take? engage in attacks 011 other posers. • The French too Lord CASTLEREAGH answered, that Spain had were now, it was said, dilidecl ; but foreign inn signified bar acquiescence iii the 'l'reaty, but to w oat sion would unite Ova, and increase , his power, by extent she would engage in the war, hie Lordship was making it necessary to giee Bonaparte such power as ,Dot able to state. • would enable him to direct their power effectually. Mr. TIERNEY enquired whether any part of the He did not think, also, that the chances of success disposable sum of 2-} millions was to be given to For. against France were very great. 110 Neal. and if so, for what purpose ? force brought eggitist France, MT Lord CASTLEREAGH-was not able to state the arrangements-asith all the minor Powers mho would duritte the contest come into the livid. He moved tile following Resolution:-- 4 ! That a sum not ex gß ceellitig five millions be granted to- his Majesty, to make good his engagements with the Emperors of oasis and Austria, and the King of Prussia." Mr. TIER SEY thought, that in point of can dour, the Noble Lord was called upon to give the .house some information regarding all the Subsi dies for which Parliament would be called upon to provide. Ile Wei not stated whether any, and what sums Sweden or Portugal were to obtain. At least he could enable the House to form a wide guess at the amount. Lord CASTLEREAGH was not empowered to Ilse any specific answer, by stating what share they would take its the general disposition. Whether Sweden or Portugal would be subsidized at all, he . was not able to state. Mr. TI ERN KY requested halm informed, whether any great addition was likely to be made to the dispo- Ca'ale sum of two and a half millions, by subsidies to 'minor Towers? Loud CASTLEREAGH felt every disposition to twisty the curiosity of the Hon. Member, but he de. coned pledgingcoverannent to any principle of po licy that [night hereafter be found injurious. Mr. WHITBREAD understood the Noble Lord to have stated distinctly that Sweden and Portugal were acceding parties to the Treaty : he wished to know in whaA proportion they were to furnish a contingent, se, as-twnsite the whole of Europe, in the words ,ssf, the Noble Lord, against half of France. Was Denmark also an acceding patty to the Treaty ? .., Lord CASLEREAGII added, that he- had re ceived the most unqualified aasureptee from them, and they had signed the Declaration of the 13th of Alarch. He was not prepared to state what force Sweden would pot in .motion : he apprehended she could not now receive from us the aid she had ob tained in the last war, and without it he doubted whether she could provide a large contingent. If the ilamourable Member meant detaietimate that there. was any doubt of the peet a rreeeden would adopt, his •Lordship - begged to state,•that be had Ise mere hesitation as to the line of politics she would pursue, than he had with regard to Austria.—[!!ear s ' Mr. BE MN - ET condemned ihe r pnlicy of trashing Subsidies to continental nations to elder iotowur; foreign to their interests, - and this too: at a time when the situation of our finances v,as such, that if the war continued bon the Stock holders could not receive their dividends.— It was the duty of the Chancellor of the nyche q uor, before the House was culled on to vote such enot mous Subsidies, to,show what the slate of our finances really was, and what would be the consequence of a long contest. Ile admitted that if by a short effort those paragons of justice and policy, %silk!' was to transfer the theatre of their operations from Vienne to Paris, succeeded in speedily re-in.stating the Boor bons, the Annum of the countrY,Might still be sup r l ported ; but it was not by a peace establishment of —l9 millions a year that they could in that event be , preserved. The object of the war was to re-esta &limn), which had shown the greatest enmity to freeditm in every country where it had been este- blished—in Spain, in France, in the Two Sicilies.— The conduct of one branch of that family in Spain had produced in the minds of the people of France, the most disadvantageous impression towards the dynasty in general, and had contributed more per haps than the Congress itself to the deposition of . Louis XVIII. Ile observed how different the state of feeling in 'Europe must be at the present moment, since the Allied Powers had shown what was their own construction of the Declarations which they had issued in favour of the independence of nations. The Proclamations at Dresden and other places to sup i press the manifestation of public indignation against • the Allies were indications of the kind of spirit with which the people of Europe received them. As he did not think the war just, nor that the resources of the country would be sufficient to maintain the con test into which we had been plunged, he should vote '-.at the Arrant. 1 41,414 argued unite iimi \rulers-. - It was said - that only one-half of the popu tation ur - France was iu favour of Bonaparte. If the other half would rise . against him, there were hopes of success; but if invasion, as he thought it would, ' united all France, his power would be strengthened by it, and lie would, besides, be able to meet any invasion. All alliances, also, contained in them selveq a principle of dissolution ; .neither were we to behave that our present Allies were elevated far above their predecessors. If we hare the magnani , mons Alexander, we have had the magnanimous Paul before him.—t Hear, hear!]--The King's , apt:aches for the last twenty years have been full •f praises of Allies who hive afterwards deserted wt.— ! In one of those speeches we ware told to look at the wisdom, the vigour, and the magnanimity of our great All y . And who was this?—The Ottoman Porte. In / 1799 ~the King's Speech was full of praises of the de.. &lon,. the magnanimity, and the abilities of the Em peror Not ; and before the end of 1800,, complaints were made to Parliament, by the Croww;•ef the un just detention of British goods at Petersburgh, and the imprisonment of British subjects there.—Cllear, hew !)—Oor system should be to husband our resources, and not lavish them on Allies on whose adherence to us we could never rely. The sum too j which was demanded was larger than that which had ever been granted to the three Coutineual Powers in one year. Even in the last year, the sum granted, accord* to one of the papers, was less than five millions, though, according to another account, it was something more. Ile would not consent to act on the idea that the resources of this country were inexhaustible, that we were to pay the whole ex pence of the war; and it was also uoadvisable to pay a subsidy, which (if the war continued long, which there was every probability that it would) we should be obliged to withdraw, and thus give a ground of offence to our Allies, who were unaotraint- 1 ed with our real situation. Though the danger of peace was great, and the causes of war jest., he did not think that there was any impossibility of con tinuing at peace with Bonaparte, if the Allies had chosen to treat with him. He should not divide the Committee himself, but if any other Gentleman chose to divide, he should certainly vote against the &rant. .atconsiderable fength on tbithitcessity of war with Bonaparte. Mien it was said that lie had been reformed by misfortune, or that he might be restrained by the circumstances of the present times, he wished that the House w0,..;(1 consider his conduct at the moment of his Lotting in France. Then he stood naked and undisguised, and avowed in his Proclamations views that he had since thought politic to conceal. After going' into the general question at pretty considerable length, he concluded by saying that, in Ida opinion; the tran quillity of Europe could only be settled by the ex termination of the military despotism now existing Mr: BARING was at a Inas to know bow the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Bankes) reconciled his speech of that evening with his vote the night before.— milli that wP tin, a just grnuud no less than 1,011,000 men. What i, a ist f^ F r: a ( I: e n: to r . the distinguished orator (Mr. Grattan) who t o o hi night unshrouded the mcrtslieti blaze of his elorpreer had only collected 600,000 men age. the towering imagination of thst Right Honours, Getitiemon was quite over-topped, aed %he'll hr, thought it by tile Noble Secretary fur Foreiett Alio r ___.r - 4 Lvo , h.l--The Hight lion. Gentle"tro, t o o' e ., , the money,, • . however, exonguonen money,, tea trawl, „„ ca ta' ry of nonce at one dash, and there he eicerel the Noble Lord. 'T tib' &ilea of I holireitiosed sub;.,, was, it was s sid,, to enable the Coefederates to oo a great, e simultaneous, tied also n sadden effo r t. • Byt how (lime this sudden effort to have b een m to postponed ? l'wo mouths bad trimly elapsol ‘;,,, the nature of Bonaparte, and yet, e toor ok g ~, Gentlemari on the other side s two months more n o ., :elapse before this sudden ehtort could take puce, I oasto be tecollected that all the force ab out to s;. iagainst the French must be supplied with moors h this country, for Austria, Russin, awl Prussia, le s i neither money nor credit. 'I Isis supply, too, no , not may be furnished at present, but as long as tt war continued---und how :long it might continue n one could say. He was aware that Ministers Eel out an expectation Oat the oar would' speedily s misrato. Indeed, this prospect had 'been . distinct! presented by the Chancellor of the Faschemser an others, .no doubt with a View to roueticile Parlia meat and the country to the 'lnagua pi4ect in 'whit we were about to engage. Yes, insane he woul call it, especially as to she calculation upon its speed conclusion ; for supposing Bonapirte were actual! destroyed at tin outset, who could say that ti; destruction would serve to put in eod to the w ar who could say that the'Vrench armies or the Preer people would, therefore, submit to the domininl n the. Bourbons, or to the dictation of. Foreign to. versiments—[llear, hear !] —that all the euthieists end energy of the French nation would imsnolio e ' disappear? Such a hope could not be rationalse o ; tertained.; and would it not then be 'wise rather ! look for security from an armed Confederacy, Co. resort to actual war. The boast of the Noble Le 'as to the power of the Confederacy formed at Chia mont, must have been quite vain, it a similar Co, federacy would not now• produce a sufficient se curity against Bonaparte, without plunging in th ,calamities of war. Why then have recourse to war the duration 'or end of which no one could foresee ,It was impossible, indeed, that. any one, that tii • NOble .Lord (Castlereagh) himself could-look fo ,the termination of the war within the year, a some sanguine persons seemed disposed to expect. , Yet the Committee was now called upon to grant large sum of money to those persons upon whoa so much of our money had already been squendero! each of a horn bad on former occasions accepted en subsidies and der..red us immediately afterwards.- I. Such had been the conduct of . Prussia 411791, as 'the conduct of Austria and Russia towaedaus ea • quite notorious. But the Noble Lord professed t. I think that he had hit upon a notable execalignt, eats l'iregord to- -Itessis.;-upon_Ahe subjeat _of the Doic k I Loan, which expedient was truly' ,tnatishre the pcs session of Belgium to Holland. From. that espe. . client. hooever ; he (Mr. W.) could eapeet no such , res..lt ; and that so faf•frnm secutfog the a dheren t• .'ef Bessie, that Power..owst..laughat those *linen ' tertained the caleulathin. Bat W was not amiss to call the ' nattire of the' portlel a ein'tO the recollectiro I e __ o. outer cootnniittee. The - kmpress Catharine borrowed I-a certain sum of motley in Holland, with a view to Onside for the invasion of 'turkey, with a part s,f which sbe contrived to take possession of Oozakow-- of that secy„Oczakow; 'to recover which the warlike I .. • - Nil. or NIT. Pitt, upon whose moral the Noble Lord professed to act, would involve this country in obostilities, and with the remaiisder of • this loan Ca ; tharine invaded Poland, to commit that spoliation '1 which all great and good men throughout the world had uttauimously and unequivocally reprobated.— ' Yet England had now undertaken to pay a part of !Butt loao. Yes, in this day of morality, whet 1 we were about to wage war in order 16 put down that arch-fiend of Europe, Bonaparte, this coon. t• try undertook to pay a debt contracted by Ra-sit for such en abominable purpose' as the dism m berment of Poland..--Let Gentlemen combine those facts, which could not be devied, with the con• duct of Austria, which had never paid the loan she had obtained from this Country, and ask themselves whether they could consistently grant the proposed subsidy to such Powers ? Whether they could safely rely upon their adherence, or upon the faithful per formance of their engagements ? These Powers had deserted us already, and they would desert us neon if, it suited their, interest, and it was probable, ale', that (beg would delert each other-that they would split upon their own views of aggrandizement. This, indeed, was naturally to be• expected from their con duct at the Congress of Vienna, where each of those Powers sought his own views. with the utmost rapa city, and let the Ceminittee look at the effects of that rapacity. Those Powers had, by their cundurt ot. wards Saxony, discarded the wishes, and s:tanated the affections of the Savo, people. This eifect was hut too glaring in the transaction which has! re,:erts I.a! to the exacution of Si unfortunate Saxon 501. diers, ant the dismissal of 1590, olio' wale seat home to Saxonv floes the Prussian array is such a manlier as to prevent them ft cm influencing the oii nion of the German people, and esoacially of ffele countrymen as they passed : but the opirs;on of these people was known, and the opistiee of all man ' ! bet was outraged by the conduct of the Pootosby wham they and their Sovereign had been so grossly ill treated, with the consent of that boasted puns- se w of , aticieut dynasties, the Noble Secretary for Faret° ' r. WHITBREAD began byoobserving that he Affairs. Oil these grounds the Hoe. Morin cells intended to occupy the attention of th e C omm i ttee e l u d e d w i t h ezpresaing his resolution to vote veliele but for a few moments. As to the merits of the war tho grant of any British ashssey to such Powers. his opinion upon the subject was already sufficiently 1.4 r. BA NKES explained. —.c.„„„„........50e5ee• known. It was therefore unnecessary for him, on l r. C. GRANT, juoior, was surprised at wl , lt this occasion, to argue against it. Il e di sa pp rose d o f his lion. Friend (Mr. Bankes) had • said to-eV l it most strongly, and the more so because it was his He had alluded to the great sums that had Wu Seca decided judgment that the object was not so much to in subsidies, but he had said- nothing of the gsfrat remove Bonaparte as to restore the Bourbons, as the' and glorious results that hail been produced by this: , object of it qualified was to dictate a Government to' —[hear, hear, h e a r n—tr we tall thas Velit 4it Y 1 France. But it was probably apprehended by th roe millions, how grand and varied had been theatise" . .. who endeavoured . to disguise this object, th a t if it : , ages t h ey h a d procure d ; and he would ask tt! 1; , . were distinctly avowed this Country would shrink i nnur:shie Gentleman t whether he slid rot th e .;. . O.' from the undertaking.• It seemed, however, if the' had beau disb u rsed i n the mo st ef fi c acious mantle' . statement of the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) were car : , Ile denies) that the Orhiect of the war ens the ler 1. red, that thisuudertalting was to be commenced with Li on o f th e Howe of Bourbon, and won dered l''''' 3 ;s_ . . ' 4 7 1'