The Statesman. — London, England, 1821-03-31 00:00:00

1N.E.••••,4.- - ,- - considered, the opposition to it would be general. The. Bill proposed to give the Commissioners of Sewers ap unlimited poser of taxation. After a conversation between Mr. CCILTEIS, Mr. eUII ,, CEN, Mr. DICKENSON, Mr. C. JrnxinsoN, Mr. lerrELEl ON, Dr. DODION, and Mr. WILOTTESIZT, the Petition was ordered to lie on the table. Mr. C. JANKINSON presented a Petition from the Commissioners of Rye Harbour in favor of the Bill. It appeared on examination, that it was not signed by all the Crsimnissioneri. A conversation followed as to the regularity of the Petition, when as the corporate seal a+ tint affixed to the Petition, it could only bo consi tiered as the Petition of the individuals signing it. The Hoeour.ible Member, as we understood, withdrew it. Mr. Trasant., from the City Remembrancer's Of fice, promoted certain &coitus relating to the Duty on oats. The Gramponnd Disfranchisement Indemnity Bill was read a aecond time and committed. Mr. GRANT brought up the Report on the Irish Court of Justice Compensation Bill.—The Report was read and agreed to. The Irifib Starch Duties' Bill was read a second time and committed. Mr. BLACK MANE presented a Petition from the President and other Members of the Chamber of Com merce at Manchester, against any alteration in the mode of takiug Corn averages. Mr. F. ROBINSON said he still retained the opinion he held when-he proposed the Bill, the second reading of which was fixed for this evening ; and be there fore believed the effect of that Bill would not be such as the petitioners apprehended. Ile begged to ob serve, with reference to a remark which had been made upon his absence on a former sight, that al though the ride was that every Member of the House 'should attend in his place during the whole sitting, yet it was the understanding of the House, that those who had important duties to perform were not to be called upon fur a strict obedience to the rule. The Petition was to lie on the Table. Mr. ROBINSON then postponed the second read ing of the Corn Averages Rill until blotidayselmight. A Message from the Lords announced their Lord si.ip's Assent to a Bill relating to Ireland. Mr. ELLIS presented a Petition from an Officer of one of the Irish Courts of Justice, praying for com pensation in lieu of his being deprived of his Office. Af er a few words from S:r .1. NEWPORT, who fienictl that the Petitioner was entitled to any coin peramtioo, the Petitiou was ordered to lie on the Table. Oa the motion of Mr. ABERCROSIIIY, the House went into a Committee upon the Irish Trial for Trea son li,ll.—The Chairman theti reported the Resold ton.is of the Committee to the Mouse, and the Report was agreed to. Ott the motion of Mr. LUSHINGTON, it was or dered that the House, at its rising, should adjourn to Mo::day next. • Sir hi. W. ItIDLEY presented a Petition from the 'Owners of Collieries in the vicinity of the River Tyne, praying that any alteration in the Duty on Coal might be general, and not partial. Mr. 11 ALLACE moved that the Order of the Day fur taking into consideration the Report of the Com mittee on the Timber Duty Bill, should be read, for the purpose of postponing the consideration of the Re port until %Venn...slay ',est. Sir M. W. RIDLEY sail, lie should not oppose the motion ; but lest his sileu-.e might be considered as acquiescence in the measure to be considered, he thought peeper to observe that on the Report being brought under d'scussiiii., he trusted he should be able to couvince the House, that the Bill would injure the interests it Intended to protect. The motion was then agreed to. Mr. MARTIN (of Galway) moved the order of the day fur the second reading Of the Capital Crimes De feline Biil. The order of the day being read, Mr. MARTIN said, the propriety of allowing a prisoner to make his defence by Counsel, appeared so obvious, that he was really at a loss to know what was the objection to the Bill. In a case where reason was so clear in favour of the proposed enactment, be at present should not advance any authority its support of 4t. It was, he thought, an anomaly, if the English law rhoul.l, upon charges of the highest, as well as of the lowest class, be allowed to defend himself by Coun sel, and vet in the intermediate classes, many of which affected ille prisoner's lite, he suss not allowed that ad 'vantage. in the ease of Iligh Treason, for instance, and ig that of Assault, the prisoner was allowed to defend 'himself hy Counsel ; but in that of hlurfli r, and all other Felonies,le was not so allowed. lie was aware it would be said, that the Court were always Counsel for the pri soner ; but it it should appear that this circumstance was : sot the case, not only would the argument fail, but the necessity of the present Bill would then become studies puled. To shew that the Court were not Comae' for a prisoner. he would instance the case of Bellingham. — The charge against that individual was that of tonstuit tisg one of the most atrocious murders ever heard of.— The offence was committed on the 13th of May, 1812. ,On the 14th, a Bill of Indictment was found against Bellingham, and on the 15th Le was put upon his trial. lii applied to the Court by affidavit to put off bis trial, on the ground that he had witnesses resident at Liver pool. 141 in could give material evidence in his favour. — The evidence be (Mr. M.) believed, was to spew the pri.l sorter's insanity. This motiun the C o urt refused ;1 althongli the affidavits stated, he believed, every circuno stance generally stated in affidavits of that nature. In this case, therefore, be conceived there bail been a fai-I lure of justice. He (Mr. M.) would mention another case. A esentryosan of his was charged with a bur- 1 eery. The fact was, that the prisoner, upon a cry of "1 stop thief," joined a watchman to pursuit of the per son who had actrilly committed the robbery. and eel failing to overtake the thief, returned with die watch man.ljpon this a woman put her head out of a window, and said, " 1 charge° that there man as the thief."—(A tau h.)—The pew man was indicted and put upon his trial at Milford. and be (Mr. M.) went there to comfort bius.—(baughter.)—The first witnessagaint the prisoner was a clammy. He could not speak a word, and there fore the Court heard what he said through an lnterpre ter.---(tieneral Lisughter.)—On the witness being asked what was his religion. the Interpreter said, he answered, by asking whether the Judge had any podding in his pocket.—(lmoghter.)--However, be should state that the poor man had previously applied in the usual mode to have his trial postpooed, on the ground that he could produce witnesses to his character. The Judge said he would give him credit for a good character, and so put him upon Ms trial. He (Mr. M.) should not further take tap the time of the House. He thought the-justice of the Hill must he widest to all, aid he should there fore move its second reading. The SOLICITOIL-OHNIRAL opposed the motion. — Ile had me doubt the Hos. Mem intended the Bill for the beset% of peteesere. hat is hie (the Solicitor-Uene- . support IEO4I it. .Von the modal' tisposopoue the trial iu that very case the prisoner had tl,e Isenelit of the assistaece of Counsel.—(Hear, hear. hear.)—lt cnuld 'hears br so when a prisoner wished to apply for a postpone ment of his tri.l. Ile really could not see the object of a reference to Mr. Itellingliam's rase, unless it wee to throw a slur upon the Judges who tried him. la that case, the question wits, not what had been the prisoner's general state of mind; but whether Ise had been in a state of laity at the time of committing the offence. The other case cited by the Hon. Mem ber he did not think it necessary to answer ; but he could only say, that it bad been indeed a strange ano maly in the practice of our criminal courts, if the statement was correct. lie contended, that the Judges were Counsel for the prisoner, not only in a legal sense, hut were so, laberionsly, substantially, and even astutely. It happened that upon nine out of every ten trials, a strong case is as made out against the prisoner. In these cases, if a prisoner were al lowed Counsel, anti Isis Counsel were to remain silent, it would necessari:v by to the di.-advantage of his client. If, on the other band, he should thick proper to speak, he w;etild most probably he driven to have recourse to soithis.r.• thi, it would he the duty of the Judge is e•sole , e ; so that it might be the effect of the present Bitt to make the Judge Lotinsrl against the prisoner. It was known too, that under the present p, actite, the Counsel for a prosecution* knowing that the priaoner could not defend himself by Counsel, thr car with moderation mid temper, and indeed, confined himself to a dry detail of the facts against the prisoner, as they were to he made out by doe evidence. But if Counsel were to be elleaved for a prisoner, it was not to he supposed that the Coun sel fur prosecutions would contiesue this mode of open ing the case against a prisoner. Some stress had been thrown upon the argittnent arising from a view of the case of High Treason. in which a prisoner was allowed the benefit of ('unused. But persons amuse , ' of High Treason had many other advantages besides that of a defence by Counsel. They were allowed a given time to prepare for trial, a list of the witnesses, and a list of the jurors. If the case of Iligh Treason was to be re ferred to, why were tint tl:oee advantages introduced into the Bill before the House ? The 'knowable Mover had he thought in this io.,tance toren somewhat incon sistent smith himself. But the rase of high Treason Was au exception to the general law. High Treason was the greatest of Al offences, anal as it was a political offence the law presumed that the whole force of the Government was arrayed against tee prisoner, and that less temper was observed in the proses:wine than there was upon ordinary occasions. These were s of his objections to der principlraif the. Bill ; but he saw others to it in detail. Comsat% it seemed, were to be as signed by the Court. Was the exertion of Counsel to be gratuitous, or was it to be paid like the expense of a measure proposed by the Noble Lord (Aldeurpe), who suggested- th.tt that expense should be paid out of the County Bates. There were altogether about 31wo pro secutions annually of the description referred to n i the Bill ; and the House wirlet, therefore, judge of the ex pense which would attend the measure in this point of view. Ile observed also that, although the prisoner leas to be allowed the beerto of Counsel. no means were suggested fur the cotonnutaitiation of the primmer with his Counsel. Such a l'illlslssUitication could only, lee believed, be !nano:lit about by the intermediation of an attorney. Upon the whole, lee saw uo advautage what ever as likely to result in the Bid, and lee therefore should oppose it. looked, he conceived, that the bene fit of such a Bill would be the last thing which a prisoner would reqnire. It, however, the Hon. Member *mild bring forward a tateasttre sill this subject of a more qua lified and consequently of a less objectionable nature, it might be well worthy the best cousideration of the House. Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH said, lie should not refer to die institutes selected by the Hon. Member fur lialway, because lee thought the general administration of the laws highly praiseworthy; and if those instances were exceptions. he should propose to ronsister them with a gravity which they had not met from the Hoes. Member.—(elear, hear, hear.)—'lhe lime. and Learned Alen:ober who bad jest sat down, could not bet know that originally the law sa, unifier's*, and that no pri soner could he heard by Counsel in any caw. If the argument of ter Hon. and Learned Member were to be allowed at all that this Bill *wild be a disadvantage to a prisoner, that arg ttttt ent might be pusher' to any degree, and might apply to the case of High Treason ; and thence it might he contended that dee privileges afforded by the law for that offence were a disadvantage to the prisoner, and consequently that tee Statute was nugatory. Indeed it was sonsweliat singular that the arguments of the Hoes. and Learned Member least all been advanced against the passing of that same. Statute. This would be seen on referring to the Debates at the period in question. Ile was rather surprised that in so dry, if not so dull a sciener as the law, its professors should have recourse to the boldest figures of expres sion. lee Hose. and Learned \trustier lead said that the Judges were astute in their anxiety to he Counsel for thee prisoner. Would it be said that a Judge Was justified in using thee same expressions which might be used by a Consisel? Partiality was allowable in a Coun sel but not in a Judge; and indeed a JUllga was pecu liarly enabled to arrive at a proper conclusion by an attention to the coedit-ling arguments of Counsel. Bat the lion. and Learned Member lead said, that if the ail advantage of the present Bill were to be allowed, why slsonW not all the advantages be allowed which were afforded to persons arrows, of High Treason? Bs the Law of Scotland all those advantages were allowed to. lee believed, almost every prisoner. The 'knowable anal Learned Member appeared to think that the Kill would be disadvantageous to prisoners. If by that it was meant that many guilty persons escaped by the present law, he (Sir James) for our was anxious that the Bill Amite' pass. The Ilan. acid Learned Member concluded by sapporting the Bill. Sir J. YORKE said that an objection oreurreit to him which had escaped both the Hoes. and ',earned Members. It was upon the score of time. If two Counsel were al lowed on each side upon every ease, it might not be un fair to suppose that Cosines Ihir 'torero' on the one and Counsellor Bother'em me the other, would speak for two hours, and this, taking the number Vases at 3000. would amount to PLOW hours asaually.—(A laugh.) The ATTORNF.V.OF.NER.‘I , said. that in order to support the Bill moue mischiefmight to be %hewn to have arisen from the present pr.setice. If it could be sliewn that the inmoresit hail satfereil, or that justice had not been administered because prisoners had not been allowed Counsel, lie would he really to support the 11111, bat all persons conversant with the subject, were aware that every assistance was afforded to prisoners upon their defence. It the Bill were to he entertained upon theoretical grounds, lie knew not where the prin ciple could stop. Trial by Jnry might be abolished upon theory, for certainly nothing at the first view ap peared so repugnant to reason as to say, that twelve men should be unanimous in every ease before a Court of Justice.—(Hear, hear !)—lt was fount, however, that the system worked well in prattle*. and nq ground whatever hail been 'hewn which could justify its illtro tion in the present initanee. 1 ;.. replied.—The leeerned Attfiency.‘.,. him to shew the intonveniente of the There was a time when prisoners were . to produce prisoner) upon _oath in theirde fence, vet that practice hail been altered, althongh the A ttorn ey-fieneral of the day !eight probably have called upon these who altered it to shew its inconvenience. He bad the authority of Blackstone for the present measure. 'That beamed Writer said it was irre concileable with the justice of our law , _ that a prisouer should not he allowed the benefit of Coutise - I. The ar aliment which had been urged spinet. the Bill on Ilse ground of its 04:C1114011111g a waste of time, could not he supported ; for a prisoner might now, if he pleased. read a folio volume in his defence. With respect to Belling ham's case, he begged to observe, that he was aware the prisoner's motion had toren made by Counsel. He (Mr. M.) urged the case, to shew, that else Court were not Counsel for the prisoner; and with respect to the trial itself, he wished either the Attorney or Solicitor-Gene rel. or any man who wore a bar gown, would read the trial. and say, whether be would have done what had been done by the Court on that occasion. Referring to the argument which hail been urged against him as to. the other advantages given to prisoners ander charges ofor High Treasons, and which advantages were obtaineorby prisoners in Scotland, he thought the true way to fry the argument was this—if the law were in England the same it was in Scotland, would the How entertain any proposal to take away the benefit of that law? The ATTORNEY-GENERAL explained.—He was not present upon the trial of Bellingham, but he had no reason to believe that the Judges had acted on that occasion otheroise than with the strictest propriety. The motion was then pot and negatived without a division. Mr. LENNARD, referring to the returns upon the table respeeting applications fur admission into the read ing-room:I r f the British Mu:about, observed, that they 'yelled the Order of the House, he should therefore, on Moloolay next, move for a more distinct return. The Hon. Webber then gave notice, that on Monday next, he should move for a Return of all curls epplications for adobilssion into reading-rooms of the British Museum, AS had been postponed. ARMY ESTIMATES. The Order of the Day was moved for taking these Estimates into consideration. Mr. HUMP, said, he was anxious that the great o il:parity in romparative expense of our Staff for the veers 1192 and 1:4•21, should be brought under the no tice of that House, and foe that purpose he would move two Resolutions. Ile could assure thoHouse.thit those Resolutions were founded accurately upon doe accounts before the House. The lion. Member then tooted two Resolutions, declaring in effect that the total expense of the Staff for the veer icr2, was 33,000/.; and that for the veer I f 1.21, it2,OOU/. 'flee question was then put from the Chair, and urge ;tired without a division. The Order of the Ikty for the House resolving itself into a Committee of Snpply having been read—tin the question that the House should then resolve itself into the said Committee, Mr. III: ME again rose, and observed that lie load not taken the sense of the. House on the last question, be cause it was possible that from 1•01110 error of one or two figures, it might meet the same fate as a similar motion he had made on a similar occasion. Ile had now, how ever, a resolution to submit, on which lie should think himself hound to take the sense of the House. The lion. lientletnan then iiiii yell as a resolution, "That the pro gressive increase of salaries in every public department was in consequence of the increase of business its time of War, and the depreciation of the currency, arising from a suspension of cash payments ; and that peace being now returned and a metallic currency restored, it is pros per that all the salaries which have been increased since 1793, be revised, for the purpose of seeing what of thee may be restored to their original rate." Lord PALMERSTON said, th- pro p osition was of a g eneral and weeping nature, and therefore if the House were called upon to notice it all, it ought to have general notification of it. Ile could not assent to the assertion, it contained, that we had returned to a metallic currency, he knew only that we were taking measures to return. With respect to the fall in prices, he was not aware that any fall had taken place in some of the most essential, items of expense, such as house rent, and wearing apei panel. Ile could not, therefore, upon the whole., things this a proposition applicable to the subject the House was prepared to discuss. Mr. RARING could not understand how this was not a proper opportunity for proposing a Resolution like that which had been proposed by his lion. Friend. With reference to the Nuble Lord's :.nitoesolversion on that part of the resolution, which referred to the exist ence of a metallic currency, he most take leave to say, that it we were not actually returned to that state, we were no farther from it, than the Ist of May. The lie solution was not to pledge the House to any specific re duction, hut merely that they wo uld go into the consideration of it ; and he (Mr. Baring) hoped, that if any Gentlemen were then present who bad voted some ; tissue ago against the imposition of certain taxes, they would not now be so inconsistent with themselves, as lel supply the metres of s upporting that extravagance, which was the cause of the heavy taxation which the couutry was made to hear. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIIEQI'ER thought that the object of the Honourable Member for Aber deen might be attained much better, by making dis tinct and specific prombsitions on the separate Esti mates for the fliiPrent departments of Public Service. Mr. BENNETT thought the Right Hon. Gentleman had quite miseonceived his lion. Edifiers Resolution. Ile tuaintaincel that those who bad voted for the diminu tion in the taxes of 1,4410,0110/. were bound in common honour and decency not to vote against the Revolution of his lion. Friend, espeeially when they perceived how idle Government were to mating reductions in the ex penditure to meet this diminution of Revenue, having done nothing whatever to that end. Lord PALNIERSTON looped the Honse wools) look at the saving of n0,U004., which the Estimates for Ate present year shrived over those of the last, under the head of • Ptiblie Departments alone, before they decided upon the degree of weight to he attached to the asser tions of the lion. Gentleman who spoke last, that tio vernment hail been idle, and had done no thing. Mr. BENNETT declared that nothing could he more wild than the statement of the Noble Lord. ItecAuse no soldiers were wanted, the Noble Lord had called it a reduction, not to maintain those which had been unne cessarily raised. Mr. WILS4IN thought that when the House was called on to give an opinion on certain points, those points should he distinctly before the House. If the lion. Member could point out any particular salaries which were exorhitant. he for one would give them his soport in seeing for their redaction. Sir M. 1111H.F.1 said, that lion. Members were ant called upon in honour ur honesty to vote for this pro position, bet in consistency with their vote for the re peal of the Mclt Tas. . Mr. MIME said a few words in feply. Mr. MONCK observed,' that a reduction in'the prise of agricultural produce bad taken place to the amount et 5 per rent. and that beistg the case, he should like to know how the taxation of the'roontry sfaa to he rap port; of the expenditure vas itiOt proakaitiosed to the . He should eertaoly support the motif* elf Isis Hos. Friend (Mr. Hume), because be tisought it roe. Wattle, to the held interest of the nation. f:6l 4 incl TRENCH said, %, esrpeoce of the armor lek , • r i e n ip P e r t n ic m e ir i t n i° l l STl i , t n s o l t n t i e l i n t h h r s r ta . ti " di a n s g ne tt r e Y sli s k .." ft ee lt a. the of prices. The House divided— For the Anteuarneat - . gg Against it - - Majority . . —I The House then resolved itself into aCo issit! Lord P.ILMERSTON theft Prulweed a vote of i 105,945/. is. 1011. for the Staff. ith pro re m ga t r h d e Mr. HUME rose to object to the ainonnt of thi s —W to .yeart t h e 7 P tal re : e u n li t t a o ll t o l w ai a :o t c h i r is i s i t i t o u rii i ti o l ie l i s t b i ( f : y ar- easts„. : inander-in-Chief, lie could not hut cons i der it as , e French war, in 1415, the pay of the Conin Chief was only nine guineas a day. it was sow k i l tr ek —. Parliament, now that we were arrived at the te lt ' . P.- ty t o a e l a i l l rf4 i so!. of peace, 4e s i t i n Yt d ..6 t re o ild h e e w g an tn irnv ity nei apply of ing at to: was 'watt: ielcirirre:'" t 4-1 atte the head of it. The next item to which he wia v y• to direct the attention of the House, M*4l the char , f the Secretary to the Commander in of that Officer amounted to the enormous easel of 4 1 4 4; per animus. No such office existed in rea ti • • a ate th e s e cretary hail now comparasierly little tn f Lord Palmerston.) —ln the year 1792 the whole l i eu ' ? " 1 „ . of the army were sonslorted by the War Office, with th.— al.i.rinre of the Commanding Officer, at as too l 6or 10,0011/., and the Secretary at War had 1 ( 4 lee-p -than 14 or 15 clerks, instead of the array tn which er the mint e L :v r e d o " a an kept . ee at h th e a Q t n ti 4 m rt e e , :. a ll u ai d et t i: ' h k e : whole expence of his establishment, which s ow ed to ior 6000/. a-year, disl not cost nun thee alej nt. year. He thought the salary of the Secretary w il e % 1 l'onsmander-iii- Chief might be re:lnced to Intik e. which, wills his military ply, would he amply suth i .i e for all the duties he had to perlorin. The nett item ' w n : the pay of the Chaplain, who united three offices, Col; appeared to he Chaplain to the Commander-in-Chief, l'haplain to the Forces, Chaplain in the Chaplain- General. The salary of this individual would messily admit of reduction, for it was clear that he could not perform the duties of all these offices, unless he could tie in three di ff erent places at one and the same thee.— t hioeff.liti(llo e-‘1131,1: 'f he offices of the Deputy-Assistant Adjiitatit-lieueni, and the 11eputy-Assistantfisiarter-Master - lieneralutigh, he thought, he aalvaittagettully reduced. Some reds's tions had been made in the Staff in South Britain. He believed four llajors-tieueral, four Aides-del;amp,mg four Majors of Brigade had been reduced, Noble Lord would look to the state of that depart in 1793, lie would find that much greater redanisat might be advantageously male. The neat item, which was the pay of five permanent District Assistant ter-MasterslleneraLadmitted of considerable redaction. Indeed, those officers might, in his opinion, be alleg e . ther dispensed with. With respect to the charge for tero Inspectors of Army Clothiers, at 6938. the %elm / lea& duties discharged by those Officers inielst be performed by one In ipectur with a Cu 1111 l nitre of the officers Min respective corps, and the expence consequently refined one-half. The office of Chaplain-General was entirely a new creation, and the gradual increase of his in come slietted the diwosition of the Uoveremeet to extravagant expenditure, notwithstanding_ al the profesteions of the Honourable Gentlemen alesl4 !Then this Chaplain was first appointed, he a salary of 36. W. a year. it was afterwards raised be. libel/. then 150/. and soon till it now amounted to MU aye& Now, he apprehended, that if 365/. a year was a sellidad salary for this individual, when he was first appeistsi, at a time when our military establishment was doable* treble, what it was now, his preteut allowance emit certainly admit of very considerable reduction. Asti the fuer Chaplains of the forces, he was really et a* to commies what duties these individuals well hem to perforsn. The Staff in North Britain was iselllem tre ble what it was in former years. There was iSsemeste and an Aid-de-Cansp in that departineet wholsad pre cisely the same duties to performs. ; nue of these ekes might, therefore, be well dispensed with. He begged% refer the Noble Lord on this part of the subject tittle Reports of the Commissioners of Military Inquiry, es Ida had recnnimend the House to return as sent risible to the state in which this department existed m With respect to the Staff of Ireland, he begged re r i g the attention of the House to the misusing disp Iwtweeu the Staff in England slid its Ir e land. Tice Sulfa Ireland, which in 170.2 cost only a few tlstrusaud passes was now charged at 20,0011/. In one item there was a charge for no less than seven Adjistants-Oeneral , alei right Quarter-Masters-lieneral, with their Dere* One-half of these, lie submitted, might be safely re duced. The Medical Staff in Ireland was mecis i tZ than in England, and wa s, besides, of a very p description. If this Staff w a s to be ke p t up, it ea just that it should he supplied by officers of the lie dual Staff in England, who were now on half-pay- With respect to the Foreign Staff, it sees nuesnessery to particularise all the items; he would only Anew, that the charge for this department, which in iris was 17,11011/., how amounted to upwards of 50,101/. Isl The whole charge for the Windwar d and Leeward mMe was f 1,412/. in 179 2 , and was *tow 29,000/. lk rhos ht it quite impossible to state a stronger fact thsa thik. l llie had on a former occasion stated his oPini ° "' pith regard to Malta and the lonian Islands. The chino' for these Islands a 00000 anted to 11,766/. and "/" two for higher than was necessary. 'f Ise Boa. Member then feel pitulated many of his 'statements, sad COD eludes' by moving, that the vote of 105,943/. be reds Ile KOMI/. Lord PALNIER.STON said that the qoestioa which he was at issue with the lion. Member M.' rather a question of principl e, than a q uestion of itM2s, end contended that the military system of 1792. mi l' being a guide to direct their course, was Whets beacon whirls they ought to avoid. (heat improveses* dace that time had t aken p lace in every pert of tee military system ; and unless we were prepares' to finer all the advantages which we derived from them 1 ... * prevenient!, he knew not upon what principle.", plainest of th e moo* of the salary of the (": of thneonosHoranobnierabtlieenttemmarr hesedeiecop. rept:leditio. The n wander-in-Chief, but it should be recollected Ihei sties 7 salary was raised to its present am ount, by a reealats assigning that rate of pay to all Field Marshals tri! employed, so that this was not a personal grant to 1M present Commander-in-Chief. The duties of the . 1 0, 0 _ twaryst S eriabo re r t i a o ry ni to na t t i n e re Lo: aw arin h a a n d il . er i - n in i C act h , ief b ee te n e V i c; crossed by the rednction of s tarmy, in consequeeet_! the number of applications on pert of' officers ee a li : '.` to balf-pay. With regard to the salary of the k lioneral , the clerical arraagements of the army had , _ so match improved since the appointment of agent roto r ef character and respectability to of in that 11_ , city, that be was mirprised to hear the lloaultrahlrralil: detnan object to th e amoant of it. The Bono% 10 . 1 . Member complained that the Staff in Ireland lived:see! greater in proportion than the Staff in Eng .0! the army in Ireland was mach more disresesl th. Englank sad involved mere frequent marches 1.. 61 _ f A e rt re e n r t lud.ets,:homtheerats;iseervstaad oweretimis. clouted by opposing lb, Anseedusent. Colonel DAV IRS wog or , * its 0 ,1 ° 6° 1 tn ;;;; - .1 of the Commandersin-Cidef dash , be loweret he agreed that throe set of the five Iliste . iet , te . '" a ; frequent inspes lailiters-titoteral might he nudes -M. Ile lb° Ig"._! therm wan so use in a Cenottesisder of the ism the Noble Lord 111' land, whilst (twee was .4 Vottimao4ter-in'i. l'hele,na—it land. The Military ens -at St. 1° irti MI tal •f gui , TI Fa TITIESNIA I. \ -- Taro noinion ittotild °prise to their dissdrantiige..4 M. MARTIN ral called u The ease of Itellinirliiiin, which had heel, referred to , pon h did not s upport the Ar - g - • • ument attempted to he d ra wn present motle. .1 ---1...... the trial iu that not allouril to pi PIPIT