The Statesman. — London, England, 1815-03-07 00:00:00

Mr. BARING gave the same assurances to the House, and repeated his resistance to it. lie re joked in his opposition having delayed it. on account of giving time from the cities of London and West minster, the latter not having a single Represent tire in the Ilouse.—[Louil laughs.]-11e doubted not, however, that an Honourable &irony,. (Sir F.' Burdett) was now on the road. He repeated the opinion he had already given, that this measure ought not to he precipitated through Parliament in the manner it now' bits, without waiting to hear what %sere the sentiments of the people at large upon it.— He contended,. that the Petitions Wliich were now pouring into. that House did most fully convey the sense of the people. The middling and labouring classes were deeply interested in this question, and it was an absurdity to soy they were not. Even the tenantry of the country did not wish for any mea sure to raise the price of corn; what they wished for was, to have the rents lowered, and that would he sufficient to relieve the country front the difficulties in which the agricultural interests were said to be in. volved. Mr. Alderman ATKINS followed on the same sick,; observing, that the signatures to the Petition vv.( old hove been trebled if there had been time. Sir SAMUEL 1101111.1.1" in presenting a Petition: - from IYestbury n gra inst any alteration in• the Cora .Laws, said be wrii happy he had been selected to pre 'sent the sante, as it atforde , l him an opportunity to -express his decided disapprobation of the measure tow hurrying with so much precipitation through the. "House. Lord COMPTON 'presented a Petition from the Town of Northampton, against the Corn Hill. Mr. CA ICH A FT presented similar Petitions from the Towns of Rochester and Gravesend, neither of 'which .Kern manufacturing towns. He wished te.• obsorve, that he himself fully concurred iii the prayers I of these Petitions. Two other Petitioutrwere alsfr' precented from other Memberv. Mr. M. A. 'FAYI.OII. said, he held in his hand a Petition from the inhabitants of Poole, -which was I . not a c.anufactaring town, against the C.,rn He was himself hostile to the whole of that Bill, and trusted the House would give every necessary oppertunity for discussing it. If, however, it pissed into a law, he hoped the people would submit to it i goietly. • • Mr. 11. SUMMER presented a Petition from cer: Hain inhabitants of the town of Croydon, against the Corn Bill, and from others of the inhabitants in fa- I Your of it. • Although he was ready to present any Petition which any number of Isis constituents should call on him to lay before that House, he still eon:' c. teed 'he should he guilty of a dereliction of the duty which he owed the public if lie did not con skier the ititere“ of the nation at large as paramount to all local or partial interests, and, on that g rou tid, he would support the measure then before the onse.—[flenr, hear !I The Petitions were then received. Mr.i MELLISH. presented a Petition from the lahablistot of Bethnal-green, against the Corn Bill. . Mr. LEE KECK:presented seven Petitions to the same effect, from Leicestershire. lie also presented two others feed' different places. • Mr. Alderthan ATKINS presented one from the inhabitants of Deptford; and expressed his earnest wish that the House might pursue some middle course in the business now before it. Mr. SHAW LP:FEVRE presented a similar Peti tion from the town of Newbury. CONGRESS AT VIENNA. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIIEQUF.R moved the Order of the Day for the House to resolve itself into a Committee on the Corn Importation Bill ; and the question being put from the Chair, Mr. 11" HITBREA D said, lie wished to ask the Noble Lord opposite whether it was intended to make any commuuication to the House, or to bring down any Message from the Prince Regent, respect ing the result of the important mission from which the Noble Lord had just returned. •- . Lord CASTLEREAGH said, be was net then' preparEd to mike any communication ; but, if any notice should be given, and a motion brought for ward on the subject alluded 10, he shout(' be ready to satisfy the titivate with any information which it was in his power to give ; be thought it Would be more convenient for the Honoarable Gentleman, after an interval of some days, to bring the question forward in tech a manner as might enable him to es: plain the state in which the business now stood.— Ile could,' however, now assure the House that, al though the great business which had been discussed by the Congress was not yet closed, much had been done; and that what was done had been effected by the concurrence of all the great Powers.—[Loud cries of Ilearr]—That all theimportarit points be fore the Congress had been arranged to Ills satisfac ! tion ; and he hoped that when filly disetosed, they would appear satisfactory to the flousee[lieitt, hear!] • .. • -Mr. WHITBREAD said, he did not mean to press the Noble lard with any questions ; all he %sotted to know .was, whether the House might shortly expect information from him.on the subject to ‘i Welt he trilioletl ?- . -The Noble Lord now appekred to him as if he was not the tre:tt who had ban lately at Vienna ; for his answers were deliverer) in the same evasive state in which answers had been given by his Colleagues in his absence. • Ile es peed that the Noble Lord would have come for ward, and given information spontaneously to the House; but if he would net do so, he (Mr. Whit bread) must call for it. If he (lid give the informa tion, it would be for-the House to judge respecting the merits of it. •Lor•I CASTLERTAGIL—" Whatever communi cation I may hereafter make to the House, I shall take the proper moment for giving it; but if the li on . Gentleman intends to make any motion pre: lious to such communication, he must be aware that the transaction* to which his motion may refer are tad as yet woend lip in that complete . stiteNo as to receive she necessary rittifiention ; they firri gone a great way Wowards• it, and have been *I 'Weed into a rticies,tut they have not been so ratified • he in a state fit to lay the result hekire thii House.", Al , . WHITBREAD —" Then am L to wider: It 1111), that unlea some Member calls upon the ilable 1.01.1 for information, he, tip. rental's siient, anti rotantanicate opining. to' the flonsia—bi this the kite of tribe nee THE STATESMAN Lora CASTLEILEAGII." I am not now pre pared to make and• such communication as the Hon. Gentleman alludes to." Mr.."Wilterpitli7tD.'--"f Cad the :Noble_ Lord . m'eitiot aitigiten time when be thtelts its Pill be ie. his poAir, to•nithi the coonnunienttOn ?" .14014 cAsrix ,, ft tAtir.--"1-do not think it nt cesmy to do so." iiis..W.ULTBREAD.—" Then I think it neces ia ry to g've notice, that on ihe first vacant day I shall raise II question which will afford the Noble Losltan opportunity of giving the !louse some information on thirsibjert." Mt. unNNETT wished to know from the Mini ster, whether the Order of '.the 'Garter had been given to the King of Spain The CHANCEI,LOR of the EXCHEQUER did not think necessary to answer the quettion, hut would move that the Speaker do now leave the Chair, that the Udine may resolve itself into Com mittee on the Caro laws. - - - • Courier Evening Paper, which, he said, he believed was pretty veil known to be patronized •by Gotern menrthe *same. a) the Moniteur ii and. has been`in FrZnee. - Indeed, he had lieert told that . an Hon. Itirmiorr, who is sometimes on the beudh oppottite, ak, Mires ,cotdributks to the ' lead ing article.—" I leave, continited The Hon. Baronet, the House to draw their conclusions, but if I understand English—a hat I reattkadefence why high pritaishonld be ujitheld.' # In regard to the e ff ect the measure will have on our 1 maitufaCtores - he could not be silent on. On those for home consumption its effects may not be solturt. fur, though he could not see the advantage gained on, substituting high prices for 16 - W, 'provided .diet was all the evil. But it must be recollected that there are numbers iu this country who are not regular workmen, or receive regular wages, but who must subsist, and therefore materially suffer by the high price of bread.--Indeed, from the low price of articles manufactured on the Continent, he did ;tot know whether they could not be imported, paying the duties, and then be sold cheaper than similar ar. tides manufactured here. But if no harm will hap. , pen to our home trade—how shall we be situated in l'ree,ord to our foreign concerns' Our goods exported I caunnt meet those made abroad on equal terms. We I shall be undersold throughout the Continent ; and I then, independent of she loss of our trade, he imagined our revenue would also suffer. Another evil arising from the dearness of the necessary articles of subsistence is the bad effects it has ott the morals i l and actions of the community. It gives rise to fraud 1 and cheating of every kind. Hardly-a day passes now but we read of a baker or dealer in flour being sum. moned before theMagitit racy, for mixing noxious ingre. - clients in the bread or flour served to their customers. Whence proceeds this, and a monstrous evil it is, but from from the price of the article, which tempts the ingenuity of the avaricious to increase. Was flour plentiful and cheap, no one would engage in such practices, and for this simple reason that no advantage would accrue from it. In Fiance no such abuses-exist. At no distant period, if your population is fed scantily, and on bad food, your people will become enervated, and degenerate from a bold cite. rageous race, to whose efforts we have lately been so much indebted. Because he objected ton measure,he did not feel it in cumbent on him to produce something else; but, for .once he would say, what he thought *as the utmost that should be done. Pass a law, to contine in force till the Ist of February next, when Parliament might be again assembled after Christmas, empowering his Royal Highness the Prince Regent, with the advice of the Privy Council, to open or shut the ports at pleasure during this interval. Faillio4in stitute a general system of economy and retrench.. meta in all 'the departments of the State. —. 2 -- Let economy be observed fn 'persons of all descrip tions of life—let it he rigidly persevered ju---.at no distant time you will then he relieved from your pre sent embarrassments, The landad.irsterest, tie thought, woulddo'well to recut to their minds thekvents of the French Revolution. What passed only 20 years: siuce•cannot be forget. Our shores at that l isle were crowded with the refugees—And who were they ? Why, that description of persons who would hero be termed the remitted Proprietors ; whence origi sated the persecution that drove them from their homes, hut on account of the contempt they hid uniformly shown for the .other classes of the coMmunity—uot (said he) accusing the Nobles and Gentry - of doing the same, but caution them not to-support measures, which indirectly 'Oust con tribute to render them unpopular throughout the land. • • - Mr. _HORACE . _ ST. PAUL rose and declared; • that be would not now have troubled the Mute with . the expression of his sentiments, but for the precipi -1 !Wien Ibat marked this measure in every stege of ite 1 ttrogress—precipitate he would call • it, with respect !i to the country, in not affording the people an op ! portunity of espresiltig their opinions on the subject --precipitate, likewise, as it respected the Members of Parliament, in not granting them a sufficient time to WM their . judgment—and, finally, he conceived, , it precipitate-even for the Ministers, from the impel ' Cation that may be cast on them, as anxious to burry , it, as if they, were apprelt...isive of its justice and policy : and certainly such an opinion may naturally be entertained, for the refusal of - a reasonable time to i examine its expediency displays symptoms of such an apprehension. lie had now risen to enter his ' !protest against their proceedings, and after having {given the most anxious consideration to the subject, he arrived at this conclusion, that all Legislation on 1 , the article of Corn was, in the present instance, un- e wise and premature; and however he may think a i protecting price ultimately necessary for the farmer, 1 ! he would oppose such a law, while we are still igno rant of the affairs. of Europe, and what may be its 1 i.event oat system.. At present, then, it is impossible ' to decide on this question ; and it may be esteemed 'somewhat presUmptuouiio settle a price before ve can escertaiu the value of money, and all our ea rims relations. We are now proceeding in darkness and ignorance, without even thitt knowledge to di rect us which we night have eipeoled from its being made a Ministerial question. Rut what must have, t beets the surprise of the llouse to find that the speech of 'the night Honourable Gentleman who so mo destly introduced • this measure, contained R 9 in formation on the subrect—nothing new—nothing to instruct. The lion. Member next observed, that the evils suffered last Year by the agrictiltnrists no longer exist ; thire is now no glut of foreign Corn in the market, no Property Tax, and the war With Ame rica now terminated : these ciieumstences should weigh considerably in the decision of this question,' The Uouse likewise should consider who those lier- sops were that promoted this measure, who were the Combine° that sat • OR the' subject. tklatty of them sere prejudiced iefaVour of it. Who were the evidence? Men whose chandlers were raised in pie 'portion to the the of land; Every landholder, he contended, was interested in this, for they wou4d gam considerably in the amount of their rent,. If '(porn be raised from 00s. t 0.705. the landholder gains in :tied a guinea au acre; if to 801. he will sethel 'el. lls.—[A lau4h, and cries of ,(fear, hear.!}-4' '=flee Rouse My he surprised at this.—[A laugh.]—• Gentlemen may laugh. within these walls (continued the Honourable 4 , ,lembrir), bet Aare Was but little ,augbieg . ,nn i this. Sebjeci without Ahem. • But he' would prove his assertion. Au acre of •land, at A low average, produces three quarters of whew. if there be an increase of 7s. a quaff ter, there must coo. Isequently be a clear gala of one guinea an acre; ant if the price be raised to :AU. he fancied that on a fii,r calculation he would nut be found to have ever -rat-A the profi'S. As to the argument brought forward by certain Honoterable Members, that the amount of '4, makes no difference in this question, ho would not insult the understandings of the lieuse hydwelli; I on it; bat he would assure them, that 'farmers neral are hostile to_tlkig Bill. because it will aiturda pretence to the - landlords not to abate tlieir rent-, _He could not, agree wills those who-assert titer -lea prices will produce idleness. lie knew that ;gnu , manufacturers- a man may earn as -much in three days as would support him for a week ; but it, ;se r i. cultural labour the busiuess must Meatiest regulsily, and without intermission. Bqt who, he asked, s up , ported the poor in the great scarcity I. Not larrl. Lltelders or 'farmers, but . ttse merchettis wed. sle :C keepers. —roe'd 'cries of Iti,"NOr .frLot isitp a a, of the House.] —No one, said the Hon. Geetlernau, condescended, on the first night of. debating thi s question; to mention the effect it would have ott the quartern loaf. A worthy Baronet James Shaw) Iliad proved that when the as'eragk priciof corn was liOs., the quartern loaf was considerably above la,, and his arguments were answered only by the asser tion" that they were calculated to stultify the under. standings of the House." Much. has been said hat the people decide on the measure by feeling, rather than reason. How else, he would ask, could they decide, when their families Are ata se l og ?—. He prayed the House to pause before thepareeld tie. tide on so. momentous a point, and de-01ebat though a friend to the landed interest, brettes:er;. : 4 the general welfare of the empire tee portant.—[Hear, hear!]—Te ',Dentlem at then concluded by observing,. that .they would assist the agricultural interest more-by abstaining, it present, from any interference with the Corn Laws, than by pressing forward this or any other meas ure connected. with the subject. Mr. vysE declared - himself to.be- friendly to the interests of the agriculturist, which it was his inten tion to support, not from any Partial or 'Seaworthy !motive—but because, if some measure litho. that be. fore the House- were not followed Up, 'the State ' - would be menaced with the greatest clangor.; He was convinced, that the effect of the measure inlaid be not to make bread dear, help make it permanently cheap. The Bill beforethe Mouse bad been, iir: hie opinion, met with unmerited and unfounded repro. bation within doors, and With_mechioations and caw. trivances without.—[flear, "Iscur4l--17a Bill, • -proa tecting the agriculturist, were notlaisciicined brthet House, the conseqeence would" be,. that nonce, who-could nou ght this Couptry in' a time: of war, * D ula Nee the power of .eoroiNg her in - a period of peace. , —[ Hear, hcarll—Crtur -One end. of the Chan. try to theother, 'if the object and intention of the Bill Siere clearly explained—if its mettle were fairly described—if it were sh . ossu to be a 'measure, as it really was, which would benefit no days in particu lar, but would be useful to ali—ithess - he was sure that a greateresttmber of perlcins"wotsiii *press them. selves in' fav o Ur of .the proposed altered's*. than had been induced to declare-their hostilititte bear, hear !]--It . was ,not his intention, on. the grounds stated by an Honourable Gentleman near him, to vote for ROs. as the, protecting prier but Ire wool(' support lie thou&lit, by so doing, that be would be essentially .serving the best interests of the country. Mr. ST. PAUL explained.—He meant !sotto sttd. bete any ill intention to the Slettiberi of Aid House. He had spoken merely of An probahlo effects of the Bill, without any improper. reference to the motives Of those who supported 'lt. General GOOOIO.NE rose for the purpose of opposing the Speaker's leaving the Chair. Hight Hon. Gentleman (Mr. RoNstson) had, on niday last, explicitly stated, that if he were not thoroughly convinced that the effect Of the Bill would be to low. er, and not to raise, the price of bread, .he would not give it his support. Now, though the Right Hon; Gentleman had expressed himself thus strongly, he had forgotten to assign the, reasons which induced hire to believe that the effect would be such as be hed de scribed. The fact was evidently the contrary. There was no complaint of the high ,price of bread—the complaint was on the side of the farmers, on account of the low price of grain ; and they called on the House to relieve them, by doing something which would raise the price. How then could it be asserto ed, if the Bill were calculated to meet the object o' the farmer, that it would have the effect of reducing the price of bread corn ? No doubt could be enter tained, and indeed it was admitted by the Right Hon. Surveyor of Woods and Forests, that, for several years to come, .this measure would raise the price of corn in a considerable degree. • The gallant General concluded by moving as an. amendment to the.originat motion—". That the House. do reiotesitself into the said Committee, .on.thetrie Monday after the Easter recess." Mr. ROBINSON said,' the .lionottrable Burnet (Sir Gilbert Ileathcote) must know very little indPed of him, if he could suppose that be espoused one set. .of sentiments in that House, and advocated another out of it: The Honourable Baronet seemed to be Here that he . (Mr. Robinsett) hid lest.:all.Pretensions to modesty within the walls of the liosass of Cote-; :mons ; he should only observe, that he wu eitiease-i ly glad the motle , ty thus' abandoned by him hadbeeitt found by the Hon imitable Baronet. heir —He was very sensible - thit, what he had said; . bethr when he... introduced the measure, Old Sect, W . ' `been misunderstood and misreptesented,An't . sorieti of ways. It was, therefore, : of no use. for .him to !go over the speech he had originally made. But this le would observe,-that 'either site gaWot General (Gascoigne) or himself had' 'totally forgetter' -what l'ad fallen fromt him (Mc-Robinson) on the-evening he proposed sedthe Resolutions wise p the General would not bare made the r observations he bad that night offered to the House. E General GItSc.,OIGNE captained. Mr. LIUTLER was agninet. die Spillable:o !ming the Chair.. • • • • . •• Lord COM PTO.N was a friend takfrertratie $l.-1 to admit the free importation of corn, 'V n., 1 / 2 tul A ktie necessary to do away with the taxes. 'the Howe ving into the Committee. TIfE CORN LAWs. Sir C 1 LBEaT IIEATIICOTE sail he had hither. to refrained giving any opinion on this important subject, and from considering himself to belong to the class of landed proprietors, he had felt some de . • licacy iii.the matter. lie found many of those with whom he usual!) , coincided in political sentiment, I differed with bin in opinion ; and many with whom 1 he was acquainted in the country, were now great isutierers from the state of the agricultural in -1 terests. If, therefore, the_ measure had not ere i ated so unusual a sensation in the public mind, be Was desirous to have been perfectly silent.— [To enter at harp into all the branches of this im • portant subject oust take cousiderabie time, And after 'I all, he thought A. real. merits of the question lay in . .. a very narrow eemstess. The present crisis has been !'produced 17.tbe.Ausiatural exertions we made in the ' long and expensive war just termientsia. The fictitious credit obtained or,given universally, caused every ar ticle for use or subsistence to riscimaisitely beyond its valiie—and it is impossible, in so short a space of 1 • i time as has elapsed, since peace was restored, for things again to resume their accustomed course. Improper motives have been assigned to the landed proprietors, I but hireally could not see any impropriety in a per t son looking to what, lie conceived, his interest—or 1 • I the int erests of that class to which he belongs. If [any . blame attaches, it should fall on-tho-Grevenw I went, who now, for the first time, have gives' their support to the measureand why ? Because it is their duty to watch . , over the interests of all, god see . that no description .of persons is unduly ' ptererrid- 111.3 next. came to that point of the subject, where, in his opinion, the question mainly rests. the wants of the . government are peat i to wind up the mien* yf a long war—to support' a Peace Establialoneut greaier than ever . before k new ii. A Peace I..:stablislinient of 20 millionseqesi I to what was foroterly considered sufficient to make war on 'a most extiuded scale. Supplies must i therefore be afforded, and of course much of 1 14 burthen would WI on the landed proprietor. The Government wanting the money, seek it from the land-owner: he looks to remuneration from the ter. ! mer. The latter (the former) is usi.ble to pay from the low price of corn. flow is the ditlicolty to begot ', over ? Parliament pass a law to keep ep the price 'ef• corn, and that will protect the increased sittnts. • Gal I whom then does the burthen fall ? On the consumer; on every cue not being an owner or occupier of land. , Nothing can be plainer than this ; and yet we are told that rent,, the chief outgoing of the farmer, hall nothing to do with the question. Ile differed from such opinions. Then as to taxes and rents. Since the. year 1792, the former have enormously multiplied ,"] independent of parochial rates ; and as to the latter; they have been doubled, triple d, oaf he believed by some quadrupled. A person l holding a firm , in 1902, at . 1001. a year, ;oppose it now 300 L if it was reduced. ,! again oott-thifd, what a great relief would this afford'' i the celtirator ~1 It is said that 80s. is a proper remunerating price ; on what foundation does this.. assertion ; rest, but. oil the opinion of several land- ' surveyors Oni were examined before tae Committee ; 1 of thq Llouse, And who bad, be it remembered, pre-' viously 'lid rents accordingly ; so that some fifty or More if thise - persons ere to. tie the maximum on j which the rest of the population of the country are to leat their daily bread. This' description •of persons j are interested in fixing a high value on a survey as I they are usually paid by a per ventage.--It is . said, if this measure does not pass, that a clean.! ' titv of the middling land will again fait out olcirlti. I ! • va . tion. It is ne c essary to ask, said the Hon. But. Iwhen the greatest part of this poor land was thus i , eultivated ? NVlleii wheat, instead of 80. s. brought 1 sly, seven, eight, nay, as high as nine 'pounds per 1 Totter. Therefore it is not cleat. that 80s. *lll 1 ! have the effect intruded ; but the poor !adds I will still be . turned to their ancient - use.--.. I Ile thought moderation in the taildlortiewt-this time, would do much good, and if aided by any prudence on the part of Government miAlit stn,tersede *the lie. cessity of the measure proposed. These were it o new doctrines. 11e.was known .to have been always ad. 'verse to too high rents, and had long foreseen•in ! silence the present difficulties. Ile was adverse to high rents, as destroying all attachment and good will i betwixt the owner and occupier, making the occupa tion an equal matter of convenience to both, and there. by doing away, in his idea, all the consequence and much of the obsers a bleinfluence attached to thelanded property., The views of Government seemed to differ from his ideas on this subject ; as not long since their assessors went round charging tenants of his, not . taking the 'tenth of what they did pay; but the tenth of what the assessors said they ought to pay ; thus surveying and fixing the value of ilk property ; he rather thought this going a toed Way. indeed. The Right llnhourabie Gentleman who brought for we ral the pto positiOns .disclaitned all Ititfat of. its ' being introduce& to uphold' high redts: lie would got .have supported• it for Mich perpos4s. jle'revered the character of the Right' Hon.' Cent. 'file gave him most implicit credit, &deg* he Might differ• from the ; conclusions he drew.' 110 took i more popular tone efargument, and the ohl_ty Wile ku• .n.hicli this measure !can be. defended: :it* / 'gated. how beneficial, it would be for this coutitry4 Peel corn to feed itself; .how much betide te lidy - thet English then the foreign Nemo.. Bet doesAlti It 14: lion. Gent.'s colleagues think the seine'? Detlilietl uo other advantages.? Sir Gilt•eit then alludettltllliti ~~ 7: 1 "; ...41110' Arerreggtrip,==n ii = , -~ T . ~' , __ V` r—~!s+"' 4 1 3 N'T ~t nv t hi oil 144 wl Pr Is r b.'