The Statesman. — London, England, 1815-06-02 00:00:00

tions rested on two grounds-Ist, That this was only doing what the law already did, if any one chose to enforce it ; and '2 1, that even the remedy given to the injured.busbaielp by en:ailing him to marry ag;iiii, wouht be endangered by the insertion of such a clause. Before addressing himself particularly to these objections. he could not help observing general ly, that in his opiuion it was much to be regretted that in these cases the remedy must be sought by sp. plication to Parliament in each individual case. It would be much preferable, as he thought, that a ge ment law should be established in this as in all other cases, by wiikh the parties would be enabled to see the whole consequences which must follow from their actions, and that this law should be administered in The ordinary way by the- Judges. As it was, how. ever, they had only to consider what was proper in each particular case, and do that which appeared to be just and proper under all the circumstances. Then with respect to his Noble Friend's first objection to the clause, declaring the marriage illegal, if it was fitting such a marriage should be held illegal, ft was in his opinion necessary that it should be declared so in this Bill. Under the existing law, matters of this kind were left to the Ecclesiastical Courts; and he understood that it was only under particular circum stances, and at particular times, that the object could be attained. The parties by living abroad and out of the jurisdiction of the Court, till the death of one of them, might render it impossible to annul such a marriage, and by this contrivance the issue might be legitimized. He was informed also, for he could on. ly speak from information, that a sentence of nullity might be avoided by a species of collusion, not very creditable to any Court of Justice, by setting up an informer, and in this way preventing such a question from ever being fairly brought to issue : and after the death of one of the parties, the legality of the mar riage be understood could no longer be questioned. With respect to the other objection of his Noble Friend, he admitted that a general measure would be much more preferable, and on that head he still re mained of the opinion which he had given when that measure was introduced into that House, but which had unfortunately, as he thought, failed in the other. He was of opinion, that such marriages ought to be declared void by a general law, as contrary to sound morals, to the law of the land, and to the Scriptures. When the general measure failed, this Standing Order was made : but he could not agree with his Noble Friend as to the object and view with which it was made. His Noble Friend who then sat on the wool. sack, and who had introduced it, knew too well the nature of the British Constitution,and had too great value for it, to do any thing so subversive of its principles, as to attempt to legislate by the authority of this House only. The real object and design of that Standing Order he took to be this : that, as the leitislature could not agree in passing a general melt. lute, it was desirable that the morals of society should at least have this secarity, that the propriety of laving such a clause introduced should be brought mu& r consideration in each particular case. There had been instances, accordingly, where, upon consi deration, the clause had been dispensed with; and though he should have preferred a general measure declaring all such marriages void, yet since they were compelled to look into the state of each particular case, there were some of those instances in which he thought the clause had been properly dispensed with. But it was of the utmost importance, in his opinion, that there should be a general law on the subject, apprizing the parties beforehand of the consequences, for he was convinced, that the hopes of marriage with the seducer, in many cases, encouraged the crime ; and as there was no such genenil law, their Lordships ought at least to consider well before they dispensed with the clause iu any particular case: and if it was important that such a clause should ever be introduced into such Bills, surely in this case, of all others, it ought not to be dispensed with. It was for that House to do its duty ; and he did not believe that in the other House the remedy in this case would be at all endangered._ Lord ELLEN BOROUGH.—The observations of very much anticipated what it lave submitted to their Lord -Ith respect to the settlement, properly stated, that when the dissolved, that the contracts ,n of it, and with a view to its fall with it. The Noble Earl a Bill of pains and penalties thus setting aside the settle ?as no evidence to justify it : evidence given at their Lord had been guilty of a crime which `ion of the marriage, a crime circumstances, nothing short Could be more atrocious. Let however, that he placed her i that of her seducer. His was flagrant; but though he was offence as of a milder cha ,doubtedly such as rendered it Mow the settlements to stand.— Toble Friend, that it was diffi upon which to found this al .hich was generally made on Is the practice had prevailed, lined to comply with it to a ipecially when he considered means of enabling the wife to plunging herself in still further ble - karl said, that the law did In end to the provision for the it the only provision which was lure these marriage settlements lower, was completely at an of such an ()Once. The fact with an adulterer might be lower, so that she remained crime had left her. With re . declaring any marriage be sties illegal, he had suggested ich the Noble Earl had advert adjudged appeared to render 'a Judge necessary to the ille- It was fitting that such a is Act be declared illegal, be stated by his Noble Friend, not afford an adequate se . in the opinion that a general been preferable to annul mar yendiug patties iu all such cases; .. ~~ JJUIU 1..,4•11.41',11..141%.% his Noble Friend had s was his intention to ha ships on this case. Wi it had been justly and marriage was to be i made in contemplation continuance, ought to had said that this was against the Lady, by ti f meet, and that-there WI ' but it did appear from ships' bar, that she had called for the dissolutio than which, under the A tk • of the higher felonies at it not be imagined, Is guilt on a fooling with unquestionably more f disposed to consider - he' ratter, yet it was and( j highly improper to alio He agreed with his Nol cult to find a principle lowance of aliment, wl these occasions ; but as he should be rather incl certain intent, more es; that it might be the met avoid, if she chose, plu guilt. When the Nob! I • ' not in these cases put at ) wife, he had forgot that fixed for the wife hero , cattle in use, that of do end by the commission of her having eloped . pleaded to bar of the dc F bare and naked as her ci • • spect to the clause for 14, tween the offending par , the amendment to whit! , eel, because the word at 1 a previous sentence of a $ gality of the marriage. l• marriage should by this cause, for the reasons s the law as it stood did curity. He concurred i • measure would have het singes between the of en ' ". -.4 • • . • •• • ; 111 E STAMMAI4. bet as there was none such they owed it to the se curity of civilised society, to the confidence and hap piness of families, to the purity and honour of do mestic life, that this clause in the present instance should not be dispensed with. Such marriages were contrary to the law of God, and it had been so de cided ; and what could be more contrary to the law of God than any thing which might afford the least encouragement to offences of this nature ? it was absolutely necessary to (he interests of sound mora lity, to the peace and happiness of social life, and to the purity and honour of private families, that such offences should be marked out as something against nature. If such an incestuous intercourse was to be allowed to pass without suitable animadversion, where could families find security ? Not only do. mestic comforts would he at an end, but the very re. cesses, the very nurseries of private families would become the objects of distrust and suspicion ; and even in the narrowest domestic circles, jealousies might arise, lest the male part of the family should be the gallants of the females. He did not wish to dwell upon this, because he was aware how acutely the innocent connections of the Lady felt upon this subject ; and he was afraid, lest through the ordi nary channels by which their observations were con veyed to the public, any thing said by him should meet their eyes, and add to their already too heavy distress : but in the discharge of his public duty, he could not avoid stating his strong sense of the neces sity of this clause in the present Bill. It had been said, that it would endanger the remedy altogether ; but it was for their Lordships' in the first place to do their duty. Let it be their maxim, "as for us and our House, we will serve the Lord," leaving it to the consciences of the Members of the other House of Parliament whether they could for a moment he sitate to declare that in this case at least such a clause was necessary. For his part, he was con vinced that the same considerations of what was due to the interests of morality, to the security of social happiness, and the peace and comfort of domestic life would induce the other House to look at the subject in the same way that their Lordships did. Archbishop of CANTERBURY.—IIe felt it im possible, in a case of this description, to give a silent vote. In his opinion the interests of sound morals would have been better consulted if the general mea sure of declaring all such marriages void had been adopted ; but as that unfortunately did not succeed, it was at least fitting to consider the propriety of in troducing such a clause as this in every particular case; and surely in this case it ought not to be dispensed with, for how could there be a case which called more imperiously for such a provision ? He trusted it would never be his iot to meet with a case where such a clause would be more properly introduced.— If their Lordships rejected it, they would ruin the peace of families, destroy the best affections of the human mind, and poison the very sources of do. rnestic security and happiness. He concluded by declaring his strong sense of the necessity of the clause. The Earl of CARNARVON said, that notwith standing all he had heard, he still thought that such a general measure as that which had been suggested would, instead of being favourable to the interests of sound morals, prove highly detrimental to those in terests ; but a general measure would be preferable to the Standing Order of the loose on that-subject, for it had the appearance of insensibly and by stealth, as it were, introducing a practice which as a general measure the other House had rejected. If they thought that the object was one of such great im portance, they ought again openly to come forward with a general met:sure. The Marquis of LA NS DOW NE said, that with re gard to the point of aliment, the Earl of Roseherry had no wish but to do what the House thought pro. per. The sum in the present Bill (3001. per ann. we believe) was proposed by the Noble Lord who usually sat on the woolsack, and the Earl of Rose , berry would have had no objection to a greater sum, if the house had thought it right to recommend a' . larger, though he did not feel that it was for him to propose it. The only anxiety which, in his comma. itications with him, he had evinced was, that the sum, whatever it might be, should he properly secured for the lady. As to the introduction of the clause, de- cluing any marriage between the offending parties illegal, he had no doubt that in this instance at least ! such a clause was proper. clause, it could not be supposed that more indecency was practised now by persons in the act of bathing, than had been the case formerly or of very late years, and yet no attempt of the kind bad bees, made. It would be impossible for himself and others who had been bred at Westminster school, to forget how often they amused themselves with bathing in the Thames ; and was it meant to prevent the Westmin ster boys from enjoying this amusement in future ? If any instances occurred of peculiar indecency in any particular place, or by any particular person or persons, the common law was open, and had always . . been armed with powers to punish the indecent ex posing of persons, either by the waterside, or in any place whatever. To introduce a clause, therefore, into a Bill of this nature, for the purpose of giving extraordinary powers to Magistrates when there was already sufficient punishment always to be obtained by the common law, showed an itch for legislation, which he could not suppose had existed, and which, in his opinion, could not be done away too soon.— lie concluded by moving for leave to bring in a Bill to repeal part of the said Act (which was entered as read) as far as relates to bathing in the Thames. Mr. 11. ADDINGTON said, it was not his inten tion to oppose the motion, but he bogged leave to say a few words, explaining the reason upon which the clause had been introduced into the Bill. Se veral applications bad from time to time been made to the office in which he had the honour to act, by The Earl of LAUDERDALE said, that as he saw that the feeling of the House was so strongly against his proposition, he should not press it farther. The report was then received, and the Bill or dered to be read a third time to-morrow. Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. HA REM CORPUS. Serjennt ONSLOW moved that a Committee be appointed to rtiquhe into the state of the laws re•pe. tine the writ of Habra. Curios,, and to report their opinion thereon to the flume. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL did not mean In oblee i t e : the motion, but wag •eusihle there were cnn•iderable ties, and it would require t. e mint serious consideration at the , I !owe. Mr. W. WYNNI said, that If there an• may pouibilitT of an injury to She liberty of the subject, that should be sulletteet to iialuce the House of Commous to enquire into the stole of the 17a on the subject. The 'notion ua, agreed to, and the Committee appointed. POLICE ACT. Mr. W. WYNNE rose to make the motion of which he had given notice. He said that last Session ass alteration had beets made In the Thames Police Act relative to deputations, and as nothing had been said of any other subject being introduced into that Bill, it had passed the House without any comment or debate; and he believed meta person in the House had an idea of one clause which it contained, except the person who brought in the Bill. He now found, however, that there was a clause which prohibited bathing in the river Thames from seven o'clock in the morning till after day-light was gone, from the • West India Docks to Battersea-reach, a distance of six miles. When he first read it, he owned he was astonished, and was convinced that had it.been dis covered by any one while the Bill was passing through the House, it would never have beets suffered to pass. The practice of bathing in the Thames had been in' use time out of mind. It was looked upon by the middle and lower orders of people both as an amuse ment and a recreation strongly conducive to health. With respect to the indecency mentioned ia the . . . persons in a most respectable rank in life, complain- the Bill. ling of this custom of bathing having lately been car- I Mr. BANKES was against any furthe r progress of rind on in divers parts of the river side to such a the measure during the present Session, and s h ou ld I height, that it had become an absolute nuisance and therefore move as an amendment, that the Rep ort b e annoyance not only to their individual families, but brought up that day three months. that it was also a public nuisance. These applica- I The gallery was then cleared for a division, b ut that's had induced him to give a sanction to the clause, after remaining some time closed, it was again opened. not to prohibit bathing, as the Hon. Gentleman had ! Mr. SUMNER supported his former opinions...- He thought that if, as Al r. Freeling thought, th e re . gistrates to punish indecency, carried to the height represented, but to give discretionary power to Ma venue of the POst-OffiCe was likely to be mach inn. which had been complained of, by giving notice that proved by the increased accommodation, the e x pence in any places where parsons were guilty of a uui- ought to be borne by the public. Ile thought th at i t ' sauce, in the act of bathing, they would be punished. 1 was most unjust that so large a portion of it should He did not, however, object to the motion. Mr. %V. WYNNE said the notices were general, fall 'paying o n the counties adjoining the metropolis. Th e it out of the Orphans' Fund was in fact pay. and extended from Blackwell to Battersea. ing it out of a tax on coals, which was levied only ' Sir J. NEWPORT objected to the power given on the consumers in the neighbourhood of the metro by the clause, as too extensive to be entrusted to any polis. As they already paid much more f or t h e i r ' Magistrates. Ile attributed the cause of the clause letters, in proportion, than those who resided in dis. having escaped the notice of any one in the passing tent parts of the kingdom, he thought it most unjust of the Bill through the llouse, to the late period of that they should also be called upon to def ra y a great the Session when Bills of this kind were introduced; part of the expence of this new Post-Offi ce . li e and then, from the shortness of the time, they were thought that at present it was necessary to give to the hurried on in such a manner, it was impossible any Allies as much of what was called " the sinews of war'• one who had other material business to attend to as we could spare, in order to purchase from them could give them any particular notice. 1 the sinews of tSeir strength, in co-operation of the 1 After a few words from Mr. HARVEY, 'nave was common cause; but when it was now proposed to given to wring in the Bill. 'grant 300,0001. for a new Post-Office, 600,0001. for Mr. B. BATHURST brought in a Bill to enable anew street, 200,0001. for a P e nit ent i ar y, b es id es • ;the expense of a new Custom-house ( w hi c h was ' the Doweratrick Election Committee to re-as semble, e hid' went thrisegh all its stages, and was 1 roily necessary), it would be seen that Ibis million passed. : of money might be much better spent in inrigorating i The report of the Caledonian Asylum Bill was , the exertions of our Allies. Those costly buildings brought up, and agreed to. and improvements should be reserved for times of Sir H. PARNELL brought up a Petition from financial abundance. They should he the sy m b o l s o f • certain grocers in the city of Dublin, praying teller overflowing wealth, and not erected in times o f uu from the Act which prohibits them from selling spirits exampled pressure. in their shops. : The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER • Mr. Alderman SIIAW a (Dohlin) saidfew wards , . observed upon the different objections which had but we could not distinctly ascertain their purport. been made to the new Post-Office. The first ob. ! GOVERNOR AINSLIE. ' Mr. GORDON wished to postpone his motion re- iection of its being inconvenient to the M er ch an t s appeared now to be in a great degree abandoned.-- !alive to the conduct of the Governor of Dominica, It was now confessed that a very large expenditure until to-morrow (this day) se'ntlight, in consequence was necessary for affording proper accommodation of not being at present in parliamentary possession of an important Proclamation ; but on Sir R. Heron to this department. It was, h o wev er , s t a t e d b y complaining of the delay on the part of Go- many who had the best means o f j u d g i ng , th a t a vetoer Ainslie, and offering to furnish the Honour considerable increase of the Post-Office revenue might able Member with a copy which he might use for the be expected from increased accommodation. It had purposes of debate, it was agreed, with a reserve- been suggested that arrangements might be made lion on the part of Government by Mr. Goulburn, which would increase the Post-Office revenue to the that the order should stand for this day. , amount of 40,0001. a-year, which would be suffi- Mr. R. ItTrZGERALD brOught in his several cient shortly to defray the espen c e. Ile th ou ght Bills relating to the Excise on Irish linen, hides, that there was no hardship i n p ar t o f th e ex p ellee malt, and spirits, which, after a few words from Sir being defrayed out of a local t ax : as the i m p rove - J. NEWPORT, were read a first time. merit was not merely f o r the p u bli c benefit, bat TR I SLAVE ADE. would also be a considerable toes. advantage en the Mr. HORN ER referred to a question which he had inhabitants of the neighbourhood of the Metropolis. formerly put to the other side of the House, respect- The longer the purchase of the ground was delayed, ing a charge deliberately brought against this country the more expensive it would . probably' prove. Ha by the American Commissioners at Ghent. He wished thought the present opportunity for getting a con now to know what degree of. credit ought to be at- , venient site for a Post-Office should not be lost. If Cached to the assertion, that a British Officer had it was not now concluded, the City might make the been guilty of seizing and afterwards selling slaves improvements as-to the new road themselves, and in in the West Indies. The American Government had, , that case it would be enormously expensive to per, he understood, ()Died p,oofs of the transaction, chase the ground, when it was once covered with and he should be happy to learn now what had op- 1 buildings. Ile could not by any means conceive the peered to colour or corroborate them iu the course of ; pressure of this tax of 6d. on every chaldron of the negociation. 1 coals to be so serious as ha‘l been represented. A Mr. GOLJI.BURN was perfectly willing to afford an explanation, and such a one as he Wiped would prove satisfactory to the House. The ch%rge itt ques tion was contained in the instructs ms of the Attiet;- can Ministers; and it was evidently of so serious a nature, that it was impossihla any hesitation or delay should he evinced in urging the necessary investiga tion. With this view a dein:toil had been made that the American Commissioners 'would produce their evidence. This, however, it unA replit d, was not consistent with their instructions, hilt that they had no reluctance to submit to him (Mr. (;oullturn) as a private individual, the amount of the information they had received. The effect of this wax, that a person, a prisoner in one of the hat hours of Virgi nia, had wide an affidavit that a vessel had entered that harbour to which a slave had been sold for a given sum of money, which slave had been afterwards re.seld in the West Indies ; and he hetieved this to be a common practice. As both tile name of the de. portent and of the vessel were named in his affidavit, be had been directed by Lord Bathurst to institute the most accurate enquiry in America, and from the reported purchaser of the slave. These enquiries had not yet been answered, but he earnestly hoped that the Session would not expire before the most sa. tisfactory explanation on this delicate business should be received. Mr. HORNER professed himself highly gratified with the statement he had just heard. The conduct of his Majesty's Ministers appeared to him to have been very correct, and his only anxiety now was to see the character of a [hills,' Officer vindicated, and set . right in the eyes of the world. jority NEW POSE-OFFICE. On the motion' of the COATICELLOtt of the Sir J. SHAW appeared at the bat with the Report EXCHEQUER, the Report was'ordered to be T. of the Post-Office Bill, which he was pmcecding to ceived on Monday next. war tax of no less than 34. a ton on the same article had been lately taken off, and yet that circumstance had not as yet produced any very great effect. By the Repert it appeared, tliPt the new Post-Ottice must be built either 0:1 the site proposed, or on snmeother, old from every thing he hid heard, he should prefer the site nom proposed. All. ItO ;1 7 , said, that the only point which he recollecteJ the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Sumner) to have particularly pressed in the Committee, was one come: cd with the re-examination of certain parts of the former evidence, which they had not authority to call for. In the opinion which he (Mr. Rose) gave, he as entirely guided by the previous recornmehd.ition of the Committees which had sat on the sehject. If the present Post.office was decided to he ioadequate for its uses, the balance of expense between its enlargement and the erection of a ne%v elle, was. in his opinion, in favour of the latter, from the many advantages which it embraced. Mr. BROWNE derended the decision of both Committees, which had fully entered upon every consideration relative to this question, although they had heard every thing which was pertinaciously urged in opposition by the' Honourable Gentleman Pear him (Mr. Sumner), and also by the Honourable Member for Taunton . (Mr. Bating), who he sup posed had altered his opinion nn the subject, by not having persevered in his opposition. The house di vided, when the numbers. were — For reeeithig the Report .• • •• • • 5 6 Against it ~~~ ........ fN~+~~ _~~~~ ~,, F , . . x ,1--__-- bring up, when the Speaker informed him that tl, question was not yet put. Mr. ATK YN MUG HTopposed any furthe r p ro ceeding in this measure in the present state of th, public expenditure. Mr.W.SMITII suggested as the greatest improve. meta of which the City of London wia susceptible, the propriety of removing Fleet-market to the X,,, t h road, and the completion of Somerset-place, whicl might tile's afford ample accommodation and vac for the new Post-o:fice. Mr. 11.1.R.CL opposed the bringing o 6 the Re port, from in unwillingness to vote away the pu b lit money, whilst the country was burdened with such heavy inyositions, in works of mere ornament or innall ifi t . :eiwe. T o erect such a building as that pro posed in the centre or a suffering population, wail! carry, in I.is opiidon, the appearance of an instilt o the ditEculi circumstances to which an unavoidr,hie war had reduced them. fie bad beard for the first tim. of the liberality of the city, but he confessed he could see very little of it in this affair. Mr. Alderman ATKINi defended the Report. Mr. GORDON contended that the Report wag Tory deficient, and that the whole sum to he advanced by the city would not exceed 12,0001. The remainder was to be raised by a continuance of the city duties on coals and wines, and by an application for Par. liamentary aid. Mr. PROTI{EtOE said a few words in favour of - b MI I