The Statesman. — London, England, 1815-04-12 00:00:00

THE STATESMAN. 1' Mr. I'O.NNONBY—" 1 can assure you, Sir, that no man in this lie use rejoices more sincerely than I do, nt the terminatien of the contest with America. —But it as,uld he a disgrace to this House to pre sent the Athlress moved by the Hon. Member, as it now statels, to his Royal Ilighuess the Prince Re pent 7 LP:a LISP I think it iS thei duty of this House to ;warm his Royal Highness of what 1 conceive to tse , teen the gross misconduct, and entire mismanage ment, Ministers, in the progress of the Negucia. tieas. and to the execution of the Treaty with the Uniee! st, tes of America. The first thing that must aeike every. 1P n who has read this Treaty is, that the - is int nee subject whatever that existed in dis pute the two countries, before its signs. tare, that does not, in fact, still exist ; and that all the pretensions hat were advanced by his Majesty's Mitesters in the course of the Negotiations, which ended in this Treaty, were, one by one, abandoned by (hem. 1 hope the lion. Gentleman (Mr. Goul burn), as I judge by his manner that he denies this atreement, will prove that it is erroneous. 1 shall be very happy to find that he catt do so on good au thority. As the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) refused, on the motion of nu Hon. Friend of mine (Mr. Whitbread), to lay before the House the papers con nected with the Negociatiou, except those which the American Government has, by its own authority, and on the responsibility of its own character, pub. lished to the world. l here speak of those papers which were laid before Congress by the American President, and which were received by Congress on his responsibility. Another thing to be remarked in considering this Treaty is, the time of its conclusion. It was not signed till the 24th of December last, and I think it uitl pot'/le any Gentleman who looks to it. to find nut what it contains that could have occa sinewd a delay till that period. The Treaty of Fon taietileau ens signed on the llth of April—this day eelaemonth ; t e e Act of Accession, by the Noble L un d, ea , shoed on the same day ; and the notifi cati n of the esecution of that Treaty was stated, in dispatch r, on, the Nohlo Lord to Earl Bathurst, on the 1.301 of the same month, two days after the conclusion .of the Treaty of Fontainbleau. The Coeseetinn with France was signed on the '27th of April—end the final Treaty was signed at Paris on the :;Ott of May. Now, surely, it is necessary for LhE (louse to know what obstacles opposed them artv ss to the cnnclusion of a Definitive Treaty with A met;cl, immediately after the entering into a Trent: with Franco. The Treaty of Paris had este -eset not only per eith France, but with all Eerepe ; nod it would appear that no time was so f .rorn aide for this country to enter into negocietions with America as that %cry period. At no time could nteimsitien of a pacific nature have had so good an eff , co, as it .espertel the American Government, the Amoy lean preple, and the general system of politics in Earcpe. This Government was then in a situation to have continued the contest with America, if it pleased. on the most extensive scale. And the more elevated it stood in the estimatio'r of the world —the more powerful aod imposing was the attitude of the country—the more *at it incumbent on hi, Majesty's Ministers to set on foot a Treaty of Peace, and thus to have demonstrated the generosity and megnanimily of that people, who, while they had ample means of prosecuting war, influenced solely by a spirit of moderation, had preferred pence.— The Peace of Paris was concluded on the 30th of May, and the first conferenre between the. British and American Commissioners at Ghent, took place on the Bth of August. A mediation had been before proposed—and (speaking ()If the same sort of autho- • rity, which I have already observed, I am compelled to de, since the Noble Lord will not allow me any farther information) that mediation was declined— at mere negotiation between the Ministers of the two Conlin is's was considered preferable. At this first conference, on the Sth of August, if I an: rightly in f •rmed by the papers laid before the American Cons g:ess, the terms on which alone Great Britain would spike pence with America, were substantially pro uessd. Th e mo st remarkable of these terms were— a pacification nith, as they were called, the Indian Al!ies of Great Britain, and a settlement of their he elect:tries—flan ita ty possession of the Lakes of Ca mel', and of certain islands said to belong to us, bet occupied by the Americans since the Treaty of 175:3; to this was added, a desire of settling a new boeudary for the Ammican and British territories, between the Mississippi acid the American Lakes.— IS e r those po7ets which appeared to be principally pressed by the Ministers were, the pacification of fire Indians—the &fining' of the boundaries of their territories—the military occupation of the Lakes of. Canada—and the cession of those islands which the Ameticans had occupied since 1783. The papers, en which 1 argue, state, that the American Com missioners were informed by those of Great Britain, that tne conceriou of these points was tl4 sine gun •.... +...u. " - ftswir part. It had been waged, not for aggrandisement I non, without which peace could not be concluded. or seugeance, or the ditlt , lon of our military glory The other terms, although to a certain degree in -G*Pat Britain stood too nigh in the rank of na- sisted on, were not of so much importance; but no ton: to injure her to pursue such objects, and re- hope was held out that peace could be restored be ed nn T. ns.nt ',tic ta me to add to the splen. tween the two countries, unless the propositions re. iloor or her clint ition. The Americans had avowed specting the pacification with the Indifils—the deft principles affecting our maritime rights—rights in nition of their boundaries—and the military posses which not our glory and our independence but our sion of the Lakes—were agreed to. These terms very e‘istence sans involved. Those rights we had the American Commissioners peremptorily refused. secured. We had made peace in the true spirit of With regard to some of them, they had no instruc. pence, and ns the representative of a great comfier- lions from their Government. They stated, that cial city no one felt more sensibly than himself the they were not authorised to cede any island, part of adv.iitages tthick we should probably derive from the territory of the United States of America—and it. Th.. tzar hail brought both countries to estimate that they would not take upon themselves to do it. one another more fairly. America had felt the They did not feel themselves justified in joining in pots er of Great Britain through the nhole of her any instrument that might be supposed to look to an territory and in her very capital, and had exile-' alienation of ally part of the American territory.— rienced that this high.mitoled country would never Under these ciicunistances, the negociations at Ghent bn4itate to sari dice her immediate interests ttbeliever continued for two days longer, and were then SUG. her honour was concerned. lie concluded by mow pentled, while the American Commissioners sent to i their Government for instructions on the subject of •• Thai an humble .Arl.tress he presented to his rt.,,al in 4 h- the terms that had been offered. When the repre. re„s jolt, reformist the Thanks of the 'Hooke la sentations of the American Commissioners, eccom to,,ltn)al for hi, basin,: been g ra, iunsiy plea,ed to Eroded by the documents which had been inter .;..er in be !a..1 before the a cu ll of the Treaty of c h ange d i n th e course o f th e negoc i a ti ons , came t o •.:e.. Amity heto reit Cleat Britnin and the the hands of the Government of the United States tio;;mt sia es ..f America, vend he :osure his Ray& Iliellites they unanimously refused the terms stated to have that tarty roil-Ids...it the game they rtleet with the Ut- - horn °" red by this countrry. 'rule American Pre tun-, 4r . rtritle :tint sati.faction sin the fresh proof Oa-telly of- e A . ent laid the papers before Congress ; and, ac.. f ,rile - iti by this important arr.inzetnetit of hi. Ito‘al &W cording to the forms of the Constitution of that I. ••• 5 . .. regard for the welfaro of the people uhu. iheN would t•-tab:i-11 a pr O'er . ' re- country, they u ore published to the American people. rotwitiaiine and .. brt,“ en nations On the information thus given to the world—and on b , ennat • of for , .m.micterost." thii alone—am I now enabled to state to the House the course which appears to have been taken. The President took the advice of Congress on the sub. ject ; and it does appear, not only that the Ameri can Legislature, but that the whole American people, were unanimous it, refusing what was proposed by his Majesty's Ministers ; for it does not appear, that even in these States which were least inclined to war —even in those States which were most unwilling to support the measures of the American Govern. ment—that the smallest disposition was manifested to agree to a treaty founded on the terms proposed by his Majesty's Ministers. And, Sir, it is some what remaikable, looking to the actual state of America at that time—marking those parts where en indisposition to war, as might be seen from their proceedings, appeared most strongly to prevail—it is, I say, remarkable, that his Majesty's Ministers demanded one of the principal cessions of territory, in the State of Massachusetts—that very State, which was attached, less than any other, to the Govern ment of Mr. Nladison—that very State which, above any other, had expressed opinions decidedly unfa. vourable to the war.--[Hear, hear!]—Yes, Sir, the greatest cession of territory was asked from that State, which, I should have thought, above every other, it WAS the duty of this country, and of Mi nisters, to conciliate. They ought to have well con. sidered, whether it was discreet or wise to make de mands of such a nature, as must inevitably alienate its affections from this country—as must destroy the strong dispositiou which existed for cultivating the friendship of England—which, in fact, must place the people in that situation, where they must either give up the honour of th-ir country, or abandon those predilections in favour of Great Britain, which they had long cherished.—[Hear, hear!.) — Sir, in debates on subjects of this sort, formerly, and I have witnessed many of them in this House, I do not recollect a single instance, in which the Ad dress to the Crown was moved by a Gentleman not in any official.or responsible situation.—[Lord Cas tlereagh, across the table—' ns, the Address on ihc Peace of Paris.']—The Noble Lord says, the Address on the Peace of Paris was thus moved—l hope he will not blame me, if I do net give much weight to his precedent.—l am surprised that the Address should be moved by a Gentleman not in any responsible or official situation—who, of course, cannot be accurately acquainted with the details of the subject—and cannot be able to give the Ilouse any of that authentic information, which we have a right to expect, before we are called on to come to a vote, and to express our opinion on matters of the utmost moment. The Noble Lord has not stated why lie has not himself moved the Address. But I think, after he had denied all Papers connected with the Treaty, it would have been more respectful to the House, and more satisfactory to the country, if he had stood forward himself to propose the Address—and if he had, in the course of his state ment, given es some of that information, for which there is so much necessity. Sir, after various move- ments in the negociation, on the Bth of October in the last year, his Majesty's Commissioners drew up nn article, which they proposed for the acceptance of the American Plenipotentiaries. This article re ferred merely to the simple pacification with the In dians, in consequence of the cessation of hostilities about to take place between Great Britain and Ame rica. Not a syllable about a definition of territory —not a syllable about a boundary line was men. tioned. NVliciever reads the Correspondence will see that the American Commissioners always resisted this demand of a boundary line for the Indians, on these grounds, that, in fact, the Indians had no ter.pry, as sovereigns of the country—that the United States were the sovereigns of the soil—and that they gave the Indians leave to reside there, for specific purposes. They had the liberty of hunting —they had the liberty of fishir4,—they had, in fact, little more than the liberty of existing on those ter ritories.' A property in the soil, farther than this, was utterly denied ; and the Commissioners refused, therefore, to agree to any article which went to form a new boundary line between the Indians and the subjects of the United States. They were ready, however, they stated, and so was their Government, when peace was concluded with the United States, to extend that peace to the Indian Allies of Great 13iitain. But they should be placed exactly in the same situation as that in which they stood when the war broke out ; sin new privilege should be extended to them in consequence of the hostilities betweett Great Britain and America. The Commissioners also stated, when the Treaty was almost concluded with this country, that the American Government had entered into negociations for peace with the Indians themselves—and that they probably were, at that time, brought to a fa vourable conclusion. The article drawn up on the Bth of August, was, after these statements had been made 7 a g reed to on the 13th. The American COM• missioners expressed their acceptance of It, provided it extremely hard to describe to os the course o r 4 their Government did not disapprove of it. They line drawn due west from the said latitude, al. that made no objection to it—the parts which they had is, from the 45 th degree of North 1 t .tu m s, before opposed, having been given up by his Ma. where it strikes the river Iroquois'—f Loesker jesty's Ministers. By .this article, the Indians were this being one of the boundary lines specified e, to be placed in a state of pacification, precisely as Treaty of 1783 . I em sure no independe n t E uropear; they were before the war—nothing else was stipu- Sovereign can he found who co u ld follow this lated for—and, therefore, the American Commis- oidinary line—and I doubt whether any man i n sioners agreed to it. They did not, however, corn- world would be able to strike it accurately. c.., e pletely conclude on this point, until the approbation twin I am, he ought not to he sought f o r of their Government was notified to them. The but in America. The Emperor of An:ttit, or fl ; American Government did not hesitate to give their King of Prussia, would, I believe, _fiari it :be rn approval ; and that article, thus drawn up by our difficult problem they ever were requested to see r „ ' Commissioners, and approved by the other side, is if they %%ere called upon to draw this fam ous 1;„,, ' the very article relating to the Indians, which now [A leash.]—The subject is, indeed, rather ludicrous stands in the Treaty itself. Thereseems to me to be than important. It would have been better if t wo no difference in substance. I know not what the Commissioners had been appointed on emi t t id e, Hon. Member (Mr. Goolburn) may soy, as to the with the power of nominating an umpire; or a authenticity of the papers from which I draw my greater number of persons might have been app s at , information. I only know that they were pub. ed to settle the dispute, a majority of whom B ee t lished in America ; and there really seems to me to have been empowered to decide. But to call on ze be no difference between the articles drawn up on the independent Sovereign of Europe to settle so corn. Bth of August, and agreed to on the 13th, and that ',Heated a polio, is, I think, most ridiculous. Th e which we now find in the Treaty. The second de- Treaty, on all the subjects of dispute that exived mend was the military occupation of the Lakes. On before the war, is perfectly .sifeet... No mention ; this subject the British Commissioners stated, that made of what is called our right of Impressment — no the occupation of the Lakes, in common, each mention is made of oar right of blockade —no tom Power being allowed to navigate them with such tion is made of the principle of those measures shish vessels as they thought fit, and to erect such forts gave rise to the war, the Orders in Council. Ido as they pleased, would give rise to disputes rind dis- not blame the framers of the Treaty for these ornis. agreements, which might probably occasion frequent sions. Because, situated as Europe was, when tha war. And then, to remedy this evil, it was pro- Treaty, was concluded, I think it was much better posed that Great Britain should be allowed to build to make peace between England and America, te ed whatever forts she liked, and might navigate, in any to prevent that peace, by discussing points which had species of vessels she pleased—but that America lost much of their interest—no man being then corn. should have no liberty to raise forts, even on her own petent to say, when the same degree of interest was side of the Lakes, where her right was certain, plain, likely to be attached to them. Be this as it may, the and undisputed—and that she should also be debarred Treaty is signed, and the pretensions, on both sides, from navigating ships of war on them. These con- remain just as they were. The signature took place ditions were promptly and peremptorily refused by the on the 24th of December. The Treaty of Paris was American Commissioners—and the Treaty is quite signed on the 30th of May—and I have found it quite silent on this subject. It leaves the state of things, impossible to assign any substantial reason for the with reference to this point, exactly as it was before long delay that took place, between the concl us i es the war. Now, Sir, 1 ask, is it true that the Eng. of the Treaty of Paris and that of Ghent. It surely lists Commissioners made these demands of the Ame- was desirable that a Treaty with America should rican Commissioners? Does the llonourable Gentle- have been concluded, the moment this country was man (Mr. Goulburn) mean to deny that such a de- freed from European war. At that time peace should mend was made? if he should rise, this evening, will have been offered to America. We should then have he say, that this proposition was not made—and that appeared, in the eyes of America and of Europe, as it was not immediately refused by the American acting with true generosity, as displaying real mag. Commissioners ? We know that the Treaty is al- nanimity. Such a proceeding would have disarmed together silent on this subject—we know that both the hostile feelings of those who were most unfa• parties are left in possession of the , rights they before vourahle to us. Such an exhibition of temper and enjoyed—hut, will the Honourable Gentleman deny, moderation would not only hare been useful et the that, for the purpose of securing a safe passage from time, but world have been serviceable in all succeed. Nova Scotia and New Brunswick to Quebec, the ing ages.—[flear . I ]—Why that glorious opportunity' demand I have alluded to was made? Will he declare was lost—why the Treaty with America was delavel it is not fact that such a demand was made to the so long after peace was restored to Europe, lamat a American Commissioners—resisted by them—and loss to discover. That mystery remains to be exploited refused by their Government ; and that, in conse- by some Gentleman on the other side of the H ouse .! quence of this opposition, the parties stand precisely . But, Sir, what consequences have resulted frost this as they were before? If what [advance be fact, Sir, delay ?—[ hear, hear I.] —What a useless waste of and the Honourable Gentleman may disprove it if he treasure—what nn unf2rtutiate and ever-to.be•la. can, then, I say, that Ministers have entirely deviated mented waste of the hen blood of the coutitry—er from the course which they first proposed. The cle. the most distinguished Olficers—of the bravest, the finite boundary fur the Indians—the alteration to be most heroic troops !—[llco r, &in.)] —All sacrificed, made pith respect to the relations between them and as I conceive, through the neglieence or indolence. the American Government—the military occupation of his Majesty's Ministers!--[iear, hear I] —All .of the Likes by England—the prevention of a military sac: ificed by their not concluding a 'Treaty c,f Pea: e, occupation by America—and the portion of territory with America, the moment the Treaty with France to be given rip in the State of Massachusetts—all was signed ; and by delay ing that Treaty still farther these points, I say, are abandoned. If they are not, in disputing points with America, which they after. I hope the Honourable Gentleman will point out to wards thought fit to abandon ! Would these points, me my error on this subject, and that he will show even if carried, have balanced the misery which has something in this Treaty to prove that we have gained followed the delay occasioned' in discussing. then' ? every advantage contemplated. If, Sir, he cannot do In my opinion, Sir, they would not. The Bun. this, I trust he will make it appear that the British Mover of the Address has spoken of the great ad. Commissioners did not ask for the concessions stated vantage which must be derived from the cultivation cf in the papers to which I have alluded. Above all, I a friendly intercourse between the two countries.— hope he will show to the House, that one of the de- No man feels the truth of this fact more than I de. mends I have mentioned was not made as a sine qua But has the lion. Gentleman contemplated the con. non, without a compliance with which, it was de. sequences of the delay which has taken place, with Glared, that no peace would be made with America, reference to the renewal of that intercoms.? The although it was afterwards abandoned.—[Near, war, for the taxation of America, hastened bye cen• hear !]—With respect to the possession of the Bay of tury her separation from. this country ; and I sill Passamaquoddy and Moose Island, his Majesty's venture to say, that the war for the Orders in Coon. Ministers replied to the representations made by icil, the attempt to govern the commerce of Awe. the American Negotiators on this point, that it was rica, has hastened the p rogr ess of that country to. not even a subject of discussion. ' The property . wards being a great manufacturing •and a great ,of that island,' said they, ' is a matter we cannot naval power, by at Least a century. A war of this discuss. It is our own—it is our property. It is' description, big with important consequences like i as much the property of the British Crown as Nor. these, ought to have been terminated as soon as the thamptonshire itself.' This expression is to be found honour and interest of the country would have per in the correspondence. Such a reply was evidently mitted. It was a war, of all others, that should given for this reason—because it would be a sort of have bee n prevented, if possible. I have heard a u - tteer of the right to this property, if discussion number of thoughtless people say, ' 0 ! let AMP' were permitted to take place relative to it. Now, rica go to war with us—of what consequence is her Sir, in the Treaty which has beets concluded, we find power, when co m pa re d w i t h th a t o f G rea t Brittle, r that the property of the Mooso Island, and the other —I look u p on suc h a f ee li ng as t hi s t o be most rah. islands in Passaataquoddy Bay, is to be decided taken. I declare, there is no European Power hereafter according to the Treaty of 1783; and whatever, riot even excepting France, a war with that the possession, by England, is not to deprive which 1 should think so ruinous to the permanent in• America of her right, under that Treaty—nor, on . terests of this country. Those inconsiderate l er• the other hand, is the possession, by America, to ! sons, from the consequences of the war with Atne• destroy the right belonging to England •, but each, riea, have probably found out their error. lheY according to the terms of this Treaty, of 1783, are now, I imagine, perceive, that she is not that to have their respective rights secured to them; and, contemptible power they wore weak enough le instead of this not being a matter that admitted of think site was. Descended from the same ancettors discussion, Commissioners are to be appointed to —fired with the saute spirit of independence—actu• examine into the claims of each country. The set- !met! by the same sense of honour as we are—a war tlement of the boundary lines, between the territo- with this people ought to be avoided above any orheh ries of the United States, and those of Great Britain, ! 1 am sorry to say, Sir, that the history of mankind as laid down in the Treaty of 1783, is to he left to' shows too frequently, that, to make one neli'm the decision of some friendly European Power.— treat 'mother not only oil!) liberality, but with Plc' Now, Sir, if we read the article of the Treaty of lice, a certain degree of fear should enter into their 1783, which calls for this settlement, I think there i mutual regard ; and I am afraid that the history of is no man in this House, however skilful, howeve r our species will prove, that no great country has, acquainted with diplomatic subtleties, who will de.lfor any long period, treated its less powerful neigh dare, that he ever saw a point of so much difficulty I hour with respect, unless that respect has been ems given to any Foreign Power whatever, for the pur- dueed by successful la - siva:ice. 11.1 , , where a strung pose of having it clearly expounded rind decided.— sense of superiority is felt on the one side, and de lft is really curious to read the article which is thus ; cided and unresisting weak:le:a; is seem' on the other; to be submitted to an independent Foreign Sovereign, ; instead of receiving protection, the weaker Sella Is that it may be placed in a clear and proper point of almost sure to he oppressed. I trust, in Gad, view, so that no future disputes may arise.—[Mr. ! another oar may never Nise between these t" Pn.ssonby here read the article in the Treaty of countries, to teach them the respect which they etre 1783, describing the boundaries of British North to earls other. There are no two countries in the America, and the United States, the almost inconceiv- wor ld w h ose i nteres t 3 are mule bl en d e d t uge ther-3"d able perplexity of which occasioned much laughter.] there are n o t wo countr i es where it is more easy i^r —These, Sir, continued Mr. Potisonby, ure the those who gover ns inthem to observe the relation s points which a foreign Power is t o be call e d on t o p eace an d am ity towards each other. It it not ve r y determine. I believe, with the assistance of Mr. Ar- easy, in Governments constituted as ours t 3O . w/ rosmith to draw Isislmps, and aided by the ablest induce a quarrel between the two countriee t if 11 e geographers in the world, Ow is rot an index true state of affairs be known to the people 4)1 egr peudent Sovereign in Europe who would not find Nothing but deception—nothing but snisuuderstate'' - - tile it, Q rho' ,01 1 or.. boy thy pro I ii; the i (ice' VI et, magi tubli •I:IIN fsifli MI I Val( hail ha DIUrl mom need from ste !enc. ( by t I he in ders *war inner or of that 1 %read publi ( which rear " our et tt .s to the rig lot ti .ra phi "lifts' .4 . 11 y er k , :-1 0 . i . MI one subject whatever that existed in dis. America at that time—marking those parts where man (Mr. Goulburn ) mean to deny that such a de- freed from European war. At that time peace should a ; ° pute "..1 .1 ` .1 the two countries, before its signs- 'en indisposition to war, as might be seen from their mend was made? If he should rise, this evening, will have been offered to America. We should then have Pel, the : tare, that does riot, in fact, still exist • and that all proceedings, appeared most strongly to prevail—it he say, that this proposition was not made—and that appeared, in the eyes of America and of Europe, u WWI .1 the preteosious teat were advanced by his Majesty's is, I say, remarkable, that his Majesty's Ministers it was not immediately refused by the American acting with true generosity, as displaying real meg. lies, 1 Ali: esters in the course of the Negociations, which demanded one of the principal cessions of territory, Commissioners ? We know that the Treaty is al- nanimity. Such a proceeding would have disarmed at a , ! ended in this Treaty, were, one by one, abandoned in the State of Massachusetts—that very State, which together silent on this subject—we know that both the hostile feelings of those who were most unfa. f a i n by them. I hops the Hots. Gentleman (Mr. Gout- was attached, less than any other, to the Govern- parties are left in possession of the , rights they before vourable to us. Such an exhibition of temper and 'pre burn), as I judge by his manner that he denies this ment of Mr. Madison—that very State which, &berm ' enjoyed—hut, will the Honourable Gentleman deny, moderation would not only have been useful et th e eik: sta. ement, will prove that it is erroneous. I shall any other, had expressed opinions decidedly unfa- that, for the purpose of securing a safe passage from time, but would have been serviceable in all succeed. magi be very happy to find that he cart do so on good au- vourable to the war.—[Hear, hear!]—Yes, Sir, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick to Quebec, the ing ages.—[flear I—Why1—Why that glorious opportunity tabu 111.11 b( thority. As the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) refused, the greatest cession of territory was asked from that demand I have alluded to was made ? Will he declare was lost—why the Treaty with America was (Id l y ' d reel: on the motion of an Hon. Friend of mine (Mr. State, which, I should have thought, above every it is not fact that such a demand was made to the so long after peace was restored to Europe,larn eta , . and I Whitbread), to lay before the House the papers con- other, it was the duty of this country, and of Mi- American Commissioners—resisted by them—and loss to discover. That mystery remains tobeexplaie s t 1111e111 ii fleeted with the Negociatinu, except those which the nisters, to conciliate. They ought to have well con. i refused by their Government ; and that, in conse- .by some Gentleman on the other side of the Hous e . f Veil American Government has, by its own authority, sidered, whether it was discreet or wise to make dee ! quence of this opposition, the parties stand precisely . But, Sir, what consequences have resulted frola this of th aid on the responsibility of its own character, pub. mands of such a nature, as must inevitably alienate, as they were before? If what [advance be fact, Sir, delay ?—[ilear, hear!]—What a useless wnst e of rest i fished to the world. I here speak of those papers its affections from this country—as must destroy the ; and the Honourable Gentleman may disprove it if he treasure—what on unfortunate and ever-to.hee a . e:ip: wide!. were laid before Congress by the American strong dispositinu which existed for cultivating the ' can, then, I say, that Ministers have entirely deviated mented waste of the he ft blood of the countrye e ( tes t '' . 1 ]' resident, and which were reeeived by Congress on friendship of England—% hich, in fact, must place , from the course which they first proposed. The de- the most distinguished Officers—of the bravest, the i u es be 1' 1 his responsibility. Another thing to be remarked in the people in that situation, where they must either ' finite boundary for the Indians—the alteration to be most heroic troops !—[hear, hero ;!] —Alf sacrificed, considerbee this Treaty is, the time of its conclusion. give up the honour of their country, or abandon made with respert to the relations between them and as I conceive, through the neglieence or indolence, '1 li It was not sigoed till the '24th of December last, and those predilections in favour of Great Britain, the American Government—the military occupation of his Majesty's Minister , s! [Hear, hear 11—All Rill: ii I think it still putzle any Gentleman who looks to w hich they had long cherished.—[Hear, hear ! . I—. of the Lakes by England—the prevention of a military sac: ificed by their net concluding a Ttekty of Pea s e, on 1 i it, er find nut what it contains that could have occa. Sir, in debates on subjects of this sort, formerly, occupation by Ainelica—and the portion of territory with America, the mentent the Treaty with France thiu simper! a delay till that period. The Treaty of Fun- and I have witnessed many of them in this House, I to be given up in the State of Massachusetts—all was signed ; and by delay log that Treaty still farther pee: 1 taiebleau as signed on the llth of April—this day do not recollect a single instance, in which the Ad- j these points, I say, are abandoned. If they are not, in disputing points with Amer ice, which they after. halt, twel t emont It ; t e Act of Accession, by the Noble " dress to the Crown was moved by a Gentleman not I I hope the Honourable Gentleman will point out to wards thought fit to abandon ! Would these !mites, who Lord. was segeed ors the same day ; and the notifi. in any official.or responsible situation.—[Lord Gas. Ime my error on this subject, and that he will show ' ere.. if carried, have balanced the misery which has 1 / 1 611 • COI .11 of the esecutien of that Treaty was stated, in tlereaglt, across the table—' ns, the Address on i something in this Treaty to prove that we have gained followed the delay occasioned' in discussing. them ? mow a eisp.och le 091 the Noble Lord to Earl Bathurst , on Mc Peace of Paris .'] — The Noble Lord says, the every advantage contemplated. If, Sir, he cannot do !In my opinion, Sir, they would not. The Bun. need the teth of the same month, two days after the Address on the Peace of Paris was thus moved—l this, I trust he will make it appear that the British , Mover of the Address hes spoken of the great ad. tree conclusion .of the Treety of Fontainbleau. The hope he will not blame me, if Ido net give much Commissioners did not ask for the concessions stated : vantage which must be derived from the cultivatina cf ste Couv...itinn with France was signed on the 27th of weight to his precedent.—l am surprised that the tin the papers to which I have alluded. Above all, I, a friendly intercourse between the two countries.— leers . . April—ella the final Treaty was signed at Paris on Address should be moved by a Gentleman not in any hope he will show to the House, that one of the de- !No man feels the truth of this fact more than I de. TI the ;;(1,11 of Ma ) . Now, surely, it is necessary for responsible or official situation—who, of course, mands I have mentioned was not made as a sine qua , 1 But has the Hon. Gentleman contemplated the con- by tl • H IE H ou se to keow what obstacles opposed them. cannot be accurately acquainted with the details of non, without a compliance with which, it was de-. sequences of the delay which has taken place, with NI scows to the conclusion of a Definitive Treaty with the subject—and cannot be able to give the house Glared, that no peace would be made with America, reference to the renewal of that intercoms..? The bele i 1 he in A met,Ca, immediately after the entering into a any of that authentic information, which we have a although it was afterwards abandoned.—(Hear, war, for the taxation of America, hastened bye cen- t I . n T r ...ie. %sill, France. Tee 'Treaty of Paris bad este- right to expect, before we are called on to come to a hear !]—With respect to the possession of the Bay of tury her separation from. this country ; and I sill ders ' b; ..!. 1 .(1 not ugly 'steel- ,sith France, but with all vote, and to express our opinion on matters of the Passamaquoddy and Moose Island, his Majesty's venture to say, that the war for the Orders in Copse tar i r,; lr rpe ; :IA it would appear that no time was so utmost moment. The Noble Lord has not stated Ministers replied to the representations made by cil, the attempt to govern the commerce of Awe- inner / • l', ro t e a lee for tl.:s country to enter into negorietions why he has not himself moved the Address. But I the American Negotiators on this point, that it was rica, has hastened the progress of that country to- or or I that' , t, w ;ti t A m eric a is that very period. At no time could think, after he had denied all Papers connected not even a subject of discussion. ' The property wards being a great manufacturing and a great l; r ',to l e...item of a pacific nature have had so good an with the Treaty, it would have been more respectful lof that island,' said they, 'is a matter we cannot naval power, by at eeast a century. A war of this /read eff., c r, as ir .egetseie.l des American Government, the Ito the house, and more satisfactory to the country, discuss. It is our own—it is our property. It is , description, big with i m p or t an t conse quences like Ila n . A n ., o n.a e peeple, and the general system of politics if he had stood forward himself to propose the as much the property of the British Crown as Nor. these, ought to have been terminated as soon as the puhli i n Ei, , 1) ... This Governmeet was then in a situation I Address—and if he had, in the course of his state- thamptonshire itself.' fhis expression is to be found honour and interest of the country would have per- nessi l' t o terve continued the contest with America, if it ment, given us some of that information, for which in th e corres p on d en ce. S uc h a re ply was ev id en tl y m ilt e d. I t was a war, of all others, that should tim l e n s e d. on the most extensive scale. And the there is s o m u ch n e ces s ity. Si r , a ft er v a r i ou s move - g i ven f or t hi s reason—because it would be a sort of have been prevented, if possible. I have heard a 'e It w e me re elevated it stood in the esiimaticei of the world I meats in the negociation, on the Bth of October in waver of the right to this property, if discussion number of thoughtless people say, '0 ! let Arne' the fi 's , —the more powerful :eel imposing was the attitude the last year, his Majesty's Commissioners drew up were permitted to take place relative to it. Now, rice go to war with us—ef what consequence is her at :l t s 1 o f the country—the more wet it incumbent on hie an article, which they proposed for the acceptance of I Sir, in the Treaty which has been concluded, we find power, when compared with that of Great Britaior esele Majesty's Ministers to set on font a Treaty of Peace, the American Plenipotentiaries. This article re- that the property of the Moose Island, and the other —I look upon such a feeling as this to be most mis• have ' and thus to have demonstrated the generosity and ferred merely to the simple pacification with the In- islands in Passaepaquoddy Bay, is to be decided taken. I declare, there is no European Power had, • '1 ; ssej e magnanimity of that !people, who, while they had diens, in consequence of the cessation of hostilities hereafter according to the Treaty of 1783; and whatever, not even excepting France, a war with ample means of prosecuting war, influenced solely about to take place between Great Britain and Ame- that the possession, by England, is not to deprive which I should think so ruinous to the permanent in' frl/111. by a spirit of moderation, had preferred peace.— rice. N o t a syll a bl e a b ou t a d e fi n iti on o f t err i tory A mer i ca o f h er r i g h t, un d er t h at T reaty — nor, on terests o f th i s country. Those inconsiderate ler• and a i I The Peace of Paris was concluded on the 30th of —not a syllable nbout a boundary line was metp- the other hand, is the possession, by America, to sons, from the consequences of the war with stele- eerie, F May, and the first conference between the British firmed. NVlicrever reads the Correspondence will see destroy the right belonging to England; but each, • riea, have probably found out their error. 'll'el. Grin:, awl American Commissioners at Ghent, took place that the A mer i can C omm i ss i oners a l ways res i s t e d according to the terms of this Treaty, of 1783, are i new, I im ag i ne , perce iv e , t h a t s h e is n ot VA made on the Bth of August. A mediation had been before this demand of a boundary line for the Indians, on to have their respective rights secured to them; and, ' contemptible power they were weak enough to cause 1 proposed—and (speaking mettle same sort of eutho_ I these grounds, that, 'in fact, the Indians had no instead of this; not being a matter that admitted of think she was. Descerened from the same ance'lee' anti st rity, which I have :already observed, I am compelled tet;o;ory, as sovereigns of the country—that the discussion, Commissioners are to be appointed to' —fired with the same spirit of intlependeuce chive ;. Im o to de, since the Noble Lord will nut allow me any United States were the sovereigns of the soil—and examine into the claims of each country. The set- ated by the same sense of honour as we are—a ear p ierd I : farther information) that mediation was declined— that they gave the Indians leave to reside there, for dement of the boundary lines, between the territo- with this people ought to be avoided above any other. : ehich 1., n mere negoriation between the Ministers of the two specific purposes. They had the liberty of hunting ries cope:hies was considered preferable. At this first —they had the liberty of fishire —they e of the United States, and those of Great Britain, lam to • fir , that the historyof mankind sorry say, had, in fact, as laid down in the Treaty of 1783, is to he left to shows too frequently, that, to make one nation iviliz %trier conference, on the Sth of August, if I an: rightly in- little more than the liberty of existiog on those ter- the decision of some friendly European Power.— treat 'mother not only with liberality, but with inc. hese f :need by the papers laid before the American Con. ritories.' A property in the no r., fa r ther than this, Now, Sir, if we read the article of the Treaty of lice, a certain degree of fear should enter into Veit .., e g:ess, th e terms on which alone Great Britain would was utterly denied ; and the Cniamissioners refused, 1783, which calls for this settlement, I think there mutual regard ; and I out afraid that the history of .roits - , spike pence with Aims:lea, were substantially pro- therefore, to agree to any article which went to form is no man in this House, however skilful, however our species will prose, that no great country las i 0 oup prised. The most remarkable of these terms were— anew boundary line between the Indians and the acquainted with diplomatic subtleties, who will d for any —sett. ond u e. long period, treated its less powerful neigh- f. a pacification with, as they were called, the Indian subjects of the United States. They were ready, dare, that he ever saw a point of so much difficulty boar with respect, unless that respect lies been pro- .ova , 1 Allies of Great Britain, and a settlement of their however, they stated, and so was their Government, given to any Foreign Power whatever, for the pus- doted by successful rcsistance. 11u', where a Wong I '4 ed i.tl tit li lantlaries—rui;itary possession of the Lakes of Ca- when peace was concluded with the United States, pose of having it clearly expounded and decided.— sense of superiority is felt on the one side, and de- ; 'felt I etele, and of certain islands said to belong to us, to extend that peace to the Indian Allies of Great It is really curious to read the article which is thus cidetl and unresisting wealseess is seen on the other; bet ecrepied by the Americans since the Treaty of Bi itain. But they should be placed exactly i n th e to b e su b m i tte d to an independent Foreign Sovereign, instead of receiving p ro te c ti on , d i e weaker Soil" '' "our lees; to this was added, a desire of settling a n ew same s it ua ti on as th a t i n w hi c h t h ey stoo d w h en that it may be placed in a clear and proper point of • almost sure t o b e oppressed. I trust, iti Gad,) :dr. . bo;lntlary for the Ametican and British territo r ies, th e war b ro k e ou t ; Ito new privilege should be view, so th a t no f u t ure di sputes may ar i se .—[M r. " another war may veter arise between these i" .ie c • between the Mississippi arid the American Lakes.— extended to them in consequence of the Poesonby here read the article in the Treaty of countries, to teach teem the respect which they "`" Ilas t Put those iv ets which appeared to be principally hostilities between Great Britain and America. 1783, describing the boundaries of British North to earli other. There art no two countries in the '"rev pressed by the Ministers were, the pacification of The Commissioners also stated, when the T re a t y A mer i ca , and the United States, the almost iticonceiv- world whose inte res t s art. mot a blended tugethet—and 3rt w ' the 1:;(1;00C—HIP &fining' of the boundaries of their was alm o st conc luded w ith thi s coun t r y, th a t t h e able perplexity of which occasioned much laughter.] there are no two countries where it is more easy for Sto he rµ territories—the military occupation of the Lakes of American Gove r nme n t h a d e n t ere d i n t o negoc i a ti ons —Thesev Sir, continued Mr. Ponsonby, u re the th ose w h o Gover n i ii t h em to o b serve the relall6"' 'l. list i Cm:lda—and the cession of those islands which the for peace with the Indians themselves—and that points which a foreign Power is to be called on to . peace and amity towards each other. It in riot ter • r a pe; : Areeticaris hall occupied since 1783. The papers, they probably were, at that time, brought to a fa- determine. I believe, with die assistance of Mr. Ar. ' easy, in Governments constituted as ours ere. i t( ' "Iffisi (rem which I argue, state, that the American Com- vourable conclusion. The article drawn up on the roWesnith to draw. his maps , and aided by the ablest induce a quarrel b ? tween the two co p u e n ,, t p r l i e et , s , . ; i e f ,. 7 • •c- • .„1„ rui:sioners were informed by those of Great Britain, Bth of August, was, after these statements had been geographers in the world, OW is ROI all Inde•e true state of affairs lie known to the , • el pl . , tint toe concei:.,,el of these points was the' sine qua made, agreed to on the 13th. The American Com- pendent Sovereign in Europe who would not find Nothing but deception—nothing but snisuuderstate'' to,' • . .• . . . . .. . ....-..ia..4........ ... _ . ...• iiP