The Statesman. — London, England, 1815-06-01 00:00:00

or — or WIRT 9 7777 • IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT, HOUSE OF LORDS, MAT 31. .111 i Bib Market Bill and Irish Servants' Duty Bill were read a wood time. The BigllWayi Bill was reported, and the amendments sifted ta ilor Registrar of the Dover liartiour Accounts presented papers on the subject of their accounts, which were laid on the table. The Earl of LAUDERDALE gave notice, that he would, on Thursday seanight move the second rending of the Pillory Punishment Abolition Bill, with an intention, however, to post. pose is farther, in case the Lord Chancellor could nut then at tend.— Attionesei, HOUSE OF COMMONS. The blest Maa Ught.bouse Bill was read a third time, and bossed. The Windsor forest Bill went through a Committee.—Tbe 'lepers iO-11101TOW. WROTE HERRING FISHERY. the Moose went into a Committee on the White Herring Vishay 1101. A continuum of considerable length, on the different clauses is they occurred, took place between Mr. ROSE and Mr. FINLAY; after whirb the 14011 be resumed, dad the report /nut eclipsed to he received toanorrow. Mr. JOHN SMITH pr . esented a Petition from the town and vicinity oCtiottinglum, hagned by several thousand inhabitants, aguinst the renewal of War with France:—Ordered to lie ou Oe table. Mr. X ESTI .it N gave sutler, that on Tuesda_y nest, he Amid Wive for leave to bring Ina Rill to except all Wool the produce of Great Britain, from payment of the Auction Duty. MR EDWARD PAKENHABI. I Lord CASTLEREAGH new to request en lion. General ' ((:ascoigne) to postpone his motion for the erection of a Moon meat tershessemeev refuse tate ale Edw:ord Pakenham. It had hem massamaicawd to timerunwitt, Wet there did exist preen ' Ormarkeistr up linable to this c:lae, and provided that point • mettr . there could fe41110.1 but one sentiment with aspen melte merits sad character of that gallant officer.— Merv, keen Qmit had already hem a stilkient conillcation ! .lioverawern to bopeav la any way opposed to the suggestion flif thathernanditetribste t but their ally motive had been an alltliPollibiliblil they Ili& be *WON toe wide a door, and • Is airsvias Is one instance ts what their general duty might . letialer thefts umble to secede in othen. • Gesseral GArsCOtritlX declared, his oak/ toliaet had been to .4p lellire to MR dieliellehebed We* of as gallant an °Seer as Weyer failed is the service of his moony. He had en ohjec. i doll to deka but mmion, and deviated net that ho could satisfy 1 the Noble Lewd is privateceivetsaties, that his mods. was :'•strictly jilatilled be nreeedept. Me. HA'THURST moved for leave to bring in a Bill to en. able the Downentrkk Mediae Committee to remeeihie, after tellaillelet el' he in ifeblei OWN have bees carried into erect. Mr. tioftxbit peamettelts Petidon from s person named filcher, enon_plaislng ersymniptite ender the Excise Laws. Mr. TIPANEY Welt asilboar the arbitrary powers, selellet- Olt le "Ole elute taA power of dispeasing with Acts of Partiti on(' 'estnelited te'the Cissanhsionen, and wished to know 4 tll=t; figt ebnall Wasted say eneral otsfeettoo st to the appointment of a ets_upustae the gi*lni Thlr - 9HANGELLOR XCH ER of the EEQU said a few winds. hot to to low a Um Orvoiee as to be inaudible in the Wier,. Mr. ?Bud, reved far leave Mitring in a Bill, for the pur .oll,Pele of eeleedlec to Ireland the provisions of several Acts ef radiomen( lit Utrecht Great Wham. empowering the Courts .of Law to direct payment rd the coats nod charges incurred in the prosecution of Mom—The Bill was then brought in, rend a that thee,sild ordered to be read a second time on Monday next. RANK OF ENGLAND. • Sfir.C!RENTE U. rose to bring under the consider- Ate* of the House the situation of the Bank of liogi• • as far as it related to the payment of stem' . tiro.- The only ground which he believed V : (lota At adduced as a pretence for justifying the ex !eat of exemption which tne Bank at present en joyed, was their practice of cancelling and destroy ing such notes cud bills as were returned upon them for eicbattge or payment. This justification might perhaps bit received u sofficient, 'were It not for tha welfaiiiiiin tact, thit their profits were in so large a measure derived from the loss and expence of the public. In the year 1791, an arrangement was smile bete ren the Bank and the Government of that dee. by which the former agreed (o pay a sum of 12,0001. a-year as a compensation for their eNemp lion from stamp duties. This sum was at the rate of about Id. in the pound, and the Bank, it we.. to be recollect:d. at tt at time paid in specie. This ar rangement continued without any alterat . till the year 1799, anti attnough a great increase had taken [Amnia the stamp duties within that period, no pro portional italrease took place in the composition payable by the Bank. Soon after, a duty of 2d. was imposed upon it. notes. and he should read a clause from the 9 9th of the King, chap. 107, in or- I der to show that the new increase of the compensa. tiro, doe from the Bank in consideration of their ex emption, during the fir* eight years to which he had referred, was fully Worded and remised by the Legislature. per* the Hon. Alensber read the clause in question.)—Things remained in this situ s. tioa as late as 1804, when 50 per cent. had been added to the stamp duties, and id. per pound to the duty payable on the issue of one pound notes. This, was the amount of additional burthen then cast upon the Bank, who hail, in the mean time, enlarged their c i r c u lation to the extent of Nor millions and a half. In the year 1808 it appeared that an addition of 37 per cent.-had been enacted to the stamprlnties, and a proportiorns increase was made its the stipula tions with the Bank, but without any reference whatever to the great augmentation in the issue of • circulating paper. Such was the system acted on, 1 without any interruption, of extending every kindo favour and indulgence to that opulent Corporation at the eapence of the great body of the public. Is the year 1791, their circulating paper amounted to ; 11,000,0001. • in 1804, to 17,000,00 01 .; in 1808 , to 3 I ,000,0041. ; and was not less at the present ma meat than 27,000,0001. During ail this period, and the continuance of this system under which the sus. pension of the obligation to pay he specie had enabled them thus to extend their profits by the indefinite extensions! their issues, no advance was made es the original compobition agreed "Ton in the year 1791. What he should propose to suggest was, that an animal revision should be sa•d• by Parliament of the dirties and considerations paid by the Bank on their issues, as compared to the stamp duties paid by the public fie should move, therefore, In the first instance, for an account of hit motes in circelatiou corresponding in value or denomination to tut seals set forth in the schedules of damp duties. He was satisfied that the waiting system bad produced to dos Bank an unfair and improper gain of hundred, of thousands. He observed the lion. Governor of the Ikeit smile at this observation : bat Ise was himself convinced of its truth ; it was the result of a calcu lation he had made, which most fell rather under Wan above the mark, and of this he was ready to give the House demonstration.--Eilear, hear!] —There were in Circislition about nine millions of notes of I end 21. ; of the existing amount and proportion of others he hid no information, bat he understood the duty paid on meta front 5 to 201. value to be less ll.:nt that derived from the smaller notes. Calculating 1::• . n, however, at the same amount, it would ap- Fr vY VI ~ "TT' 'HE sutEsmAk. pear still that the Bank, who mitt its pay upon their present issues not less than ldooool. a-yeatr o actually paid only 42,0001. causing as annual loss to the public revenue of no less thin b 13,0001. This calculation was made, too, ilthout any coresider t. Lion of the Bank Post Bills in circulation, and the amount of which he had had no weans of ascertain. In. Now he wished to °hewn that he should look with no jealousy to an advantage of this kind, if it the public had pined considerably by the bargain in made, during the present reign, with the Crown, by which a fixed tist was given in exchange for property that was now of considerably greater value. He' should now shiiw, from the letter of Mr. Grey, anti from some documents which were before the Coe; mit tee, Mr. TtERNP.Y . rose to order. He had useirtie for those papers being printed, Mud his motiet. was -ed . . . could have applied the loo,bagt. DWG arlidntige: , ously to the country. It, hoirirer, tile firm. Geri; • tlemen on the other side could torture Apt the - 1 0014 %Arch he denied, he trusted that the Mike Mil sitst go into the ipiestinn On merely ft lechtt;rd . pOint, *lien they fatind that the hostutiraye wirit a the ististernent had - been (Willed. Ihe Noble Lnrd had said, that the amount of the'llebts hod been care fully concealed ; but hecsiAA assure the Itotke, that . . y .. could be shown that the Bank had rendered vast or !infused. Ile consider, it irregular to arene from ' , his Royal Ilikliness had no bbjeriion to state the pre. gratuitous services to the eeuntry.—[iferte, herrn: documents that the M em b ers a t l arge were Precluded sent amount of the debt; titiredeenieti. It Was pre: —lf they had made large sacrifices of their owe in. I from seeing. I cisely the same to the public, whether the T'rilice terest in time* of. financial difficulty and embarrass. I The SPEA KER knew of no rule of the House Regent had appropriated the 100,0001. to the liquie meet. But when he saw the Bank. paid by the putt.; which prevented any Member from stating the cub- , down of his debt; , , or for hii out.lit. lie contended, tic not merely to the full extent of the be n efit de. ! sta n ce. of any document in his possession. His state- that it was appropriated to the payment ill' that por rived, but liberally and even exorbitantly, he cored I meat would, however, be ope n afterwards to any lion of his Royal Highlie;:s's debit which Parliament not consent so to surrender tbe. rights of the public : observations which other Gentlemen thought proper : had itrictty contemplated. There hid beet; nri te , as to see with satisfaction so material an addition to I to make. ' dertak:og on the part of the late Chancellor of the the excessive profits now made at the public entente, Mr. WHITBREAD also spoke on the Point of Exchequer, that it would cover till intickletit awl with no view whatever, bUt that of swelling. the order, and was answered by Mr. Bathurst. : prospective chkrges. Tfiere was no subject on sthieti coffers of the Bank of England.—L (fear, hear 1 1— Mr. HORNER, contended, that no person Ought greater misconceptions had been entertained ; than on The lion. Member concluded by moving for an ac. to have an unequal advantage in debate ; it was that of the Civil LW; for When ohe t otisiilered the count of the stamp duties according to schedule, ; wholly incni:siatent with the principles of order to' great increase which indivldaals eiperieticed in Abe together with a corresponding account of flank read papers that mere not before the House. Minds their private eipenees, it would be found that. the Notes in circulation hem the Ist of June, 1814, to ' would nettirelly take different views of accounts, and Crowe had by no means kept pace tfith theist i it Had the let of April, 1815 ; also for ac account of the the House could not come to a fair consideration , if fallen, indeed, beyond its proper ievel ; Ind if Onto Bank Post Bills issued from , the ttlenth of October, . the Noble Lord should be allowed to read from par- ' measured the situation of the Crotn with 'hilt of the 1814, to the month of April, 1815. : fielder papers in his possession. I predecessors of the King; his Majltatt.iitold hate re- A long conversation then ensued, after which the I , bird CMTLERKAGIL was merely going testate ceired aunts 10-063,00 M Mitre: ' Motion for an account of the number and amount n I f results that would afterwa r ds appear i n docume n ts Mr. TI ERN EY woutd not kiln* #1401431, Lerd Bank Post Bills In circulation on the lit of July, before the House. He desired to know what gen. in all his complicated details ;Ince the rein of Gersten 1814, and on the Ist of January, 1815, was agreed tlemen would gain, if his Majesty's Ministers should H. but he was desirous of rentovitift an bapresaion; to. ;be precluded from giving information ? There never . that to support this engelry shield be to attach ltd. Mr. GRENFELL then moved that the Move, on : was oily principle an preposterous as to say, that a ' proper motives td bis Royal ; Highness. fit 1'1'137,',! Wednesday next, should resolve itself into a cOlll. Minister of the Crown Should be prevented from considerable sum sus voted to the Not* hi Wnivt mittee to eolsider of the compensation dee (repo the making communications, merely because lion. Gen. for the repairs of Carltnn-horse, and two teeil lit•-d i Bank to the public, in lieu of stamp duties. • i_ !sterner. were not in possession of the Papers. lii re. . terwaids his Royal nighties§ stone' in. the WO sit W • The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIIP.QURIV gird to the course of the expenditure of the Civil ation in which he was now placed. it wisust , d 4, said, that if instead of making the Motion at pre- List doling the present year,— I , that the money had been approprikted le 016i* sent, the Hon. Gent. would be content to let It stand Mr. WHITBREAD wished to know, whether the purpose; but what was the conduct of his trat as a notice of a Motion, he should at that time be Noble Lord was going to state any thing from a ape. Highness on that occasion ? Ile implored the vies, prepared to go fully into the s u bject. If the Motiou ci6c Paper before the Committee, and nut before the ,to institute an enquiry, and Lord Shelihrld moved . was now pressed, he must give it his negative. Nouse? ! for it, in the very words which his Noblelteleigi had Mr. TI FAN EY conceived that it was a monstrous Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that it was not one now adopted. Mr. Pitt did, at fi rst, iii thil I injustice to the public that the Bank should be of those Papers. enquiry ; but a Committee was sublequi giattleda 'screened from paying the same proportion that other, Mr. WHITBREAD replied, that it it were one, and, in 1791, a report was made to the Dubai. TM bankers paid in the way of stamp duties. Ihe should take the sense of the House on the pro- t result was, It was made out utistieterily to Peril& ' Mr. WARD said, that it was probable many Meme priety of the Noble Lord's continuing his argument' tient, and his Royal Highness acquired additional bets bad not yet made up their minds on this subject.' upon it. 1 honours by the investigation. Such, Iso did bill Considering it contrary to the usual courtesy of the' Lord CASTLEREAGH would relieve the House doubt, would be the result on the pcolikeemi‘ion House to press a motion of which notice bad nee from any farther trouble, by repeating, that it was ' so far as his Royal flightless was ;tied ; heti been previously given, if this motion was now : not one of those Papers. Ile should have thought, ' what effect ill advisers might have, he could wit pre pressed, he should upon th a t groun d vo t e against it. ' however, that the lion. Gentleman would have been . tend to declare. His firm conviction wet, that tits The CHANCELLOR of th e EXCHEQUER unions for information; but it seemed as if he was Royal Highness would be anxious for every possible agreed, that when new stamp duties were imposed, a little afraid of it.—[ffear, hear! from Mr. Whit. enquiry; and he trusted that the tang df the it might be right to revise the compensation to be bread]—But the Noble Lord would then proceed Nottli Lord would not divert the aft if the paid by the Rink, i with his details. During the whole course of the noes, from the real question. The .' hail Mr. H i ORNER thought it necessary to revise this p r esent reign, the sums paid for the Civil List, in- been seldom brought before the Hou tettelotit the compensation, not oely on account of the new stamp eluding the ordinary revenue of the Crown, and' ny very same arguments which the Noble Loki bad etre. duties, but he thought chat it s h ou ld als o be revised extraordinary grant, amounted to 51,693,0001. If ployed. it should not, however, be forgotten, that with respect to those notes now in circulation. we considered, however, the hereditary revenue of if the Crown had enjoyed' its hereditary posaessions, Mr. BARING thought that his lien. Friend (Mr. the Crown in the reign of George 11. it would ap- there were many items of expenditure from Which it Grenfell) would do well to wait until the Papers peer that there bad been a saving to the public of would not have been relieied. The great questieh which he had moved for could be laid before the 15,526,000). The r e had been a charge of 5,115,0001. was, whether the words of an Act of Parliament had House. lie was a little surprised at the manner in th rown up o n the Consolidated 'Funds, which being been satisfied by the conduct of hie ansil,,Saelsoesee which his lion. Friend constantly directed his attaciL i e ideducttd from tie grows seefasx;- ftwass - emnalned ad , ist'rs. The Nobletord had suttee/Obit *hen the against the Beak. -.— . -- 1.10,710;0001. upon' the whole reign. Daring the 100,0001. were voted, the Gentlemen on his side had Mr. GRENFELL, in reply, said, that be, might "reign theamount of the Parliamentary grants was only wished to know what was the ground of the there was already sufficient proof before the house : 3,213,0001. ; on the other hand, the Crown had, out grant. This, he acknowledged, was the truth, but to show that the Bank ought to pay near three times ,of its revenues, such as the Droits of the Admiralty, it was not the whole truth : he had distinctly asked, what they actually did p a y, i n com p ens atio n for' &c. given to tha public 1,192,0001. The only ne. what was the nature of the . expenditurtvand ilk stamp duties. lestend of 42,0001. a.year, they ' cessity of the Crown's coming to Parliament, bad the amount ; and Mr. Perceval stated, that it was ought to pay 100,0001. li e did not bring forward grown out of circumstances of dishing to adopt a ge- , for plate, carriages, horses, and furniture. That was thew motions from any hostility to the Bank, but be- , neral economy ; but for those considerations the his answer. It was tree,, that the words introduced cause he thought it fair that they should pay on ac. Crewe would not have been obliged to seek for any ,into the Act were 41 haVe been, or may be" [Hear, cutlet of stapip duties, in a proportion equal to whit' relief. He did hope, however, that the country hear! from (he Ministerial side]; but, with t p si n . private hankers did. The House then divided, •. w ou ld be brought to feel, that the bargains made gle exception 'of the fete, his Royal Highness had For ihr Malawi - 43 with the Crown had been highly beneficial to the not lived in any particular splendour. Ile believed Artiost it - . - 63 Majority - --`2l community, and had producedseaving of 10,000,0001. that he had executed the Royal fiinctions, but nothing were re-admitted into the gallery, When strangers 1 With respect to the application of the 1004001. the more ; hi did not assume any estraordlnaty dignity. the House was considering the Report of the Cons* j be=t possible arrangement had been mede.for which ` It was not a fair statement, therefore, that greit . t es -lit was granted. The words of the Act Of Parliament , peaces wise incurred during the period of. testetcted mittee of Supply. ! ghness was never reit . irrar-vt. are Mr. TIERNEY put a question to the Noble distinctly stated, that it was to enable the Prince i regency :kirßoyal Hi . Lord (Castlereagh) about a part of the subsidy Regent to assume the Royal authority. As to call- • alma, and tileitted himself to Cerltorishoese, ttsbig es which he did loot clearly understand, witk respect to big it an oat-fit, he could only trace that expression . Prince of Wales. Upon the motion he had made Holland. in the language of the R i g ht Hon. Gentleman (Mr.: on a former night, he stated, that there was an es- Lord CASTLEREAGH replied he had most ex. Tierney). The only objection that had formally seeding in the last two years and three qourteis of preesly stated on the former night that this .was not a been given to the grant was, that a species of estimate , 800,0001. to which the 100,0001. being added, the subsidy, and was entirely independent of the question had not beets furnished on the sum ; bu t It was ' total amounted to 900,0001. The expenses of Cart of peace or war. Ile therefore hoped that the Right money voted for antecedent as well as prospective i ton-house were 160,0001. so that adding the 1 00,00 01 . Hon. Gentleman would not in his usual comp o .hen. expenditure. His Royal Highness did not wish to Ito that, the whole made 260,000 1 . for two years and sive and clear way of stating things, call that a sub- disguise any thi n g fro m P arliament. With re g ard to ' three quarters. The Noble Lord had said, that the sidy which was in fact no subsidy. the nature of his Royal Highness's expenses in the 100,0001. was not to be added to the 160,0001. but On the motion of Sir JOHN NEWPORT, an previous year, the (louse must be aware , t ha t wh e n was to be charged t .. 0 the areount of debts surd. Account of Fees in the Irish Court of Chancery was be first assumed the restricte d R e g enc y , he placed dee med . But Mr. Grey stated, that -he never re. ordered. his family on the most economical footing; but, in s aved any orders in what manner he was to appre -- with hich he was priate that sum, and, therefore, it was applied to Cfl It. LIST. ' consequence of the full powers with wi Lord ALTIIORPE rose to make the motion of Invested, he was obliged to make a total change in which he had given notice, respecting the 100,0001, his domestic arrangements; and, from this consider. voted as an outfit to the Prince Regent on his taking Idiots, his horses, servants, and carriages were placed upon himself the unrestricted Regeacy. His motion on a more splep did establishment. In the course of should be for a Committee to enquire In what way ' that year of restricted Regency, he never received that money had been expended. At the time that arty relief in any' part of his establishment. It was, this sum was granted, it was expressly stated in the therefore, strictly within the purview of the Act, if debate, that it was to be applied to his outfit. It a part of the money was applied to the liquidation now, however, appeared from a letter from Mr. of Pittances in the preceding year. His Royal High- Grey to the Committee for examining the Civil List ness, 'however, hid acted towards the public with accounts, that this sum was not its fact expended more liberal principles than the Noble Lord seemed for his outfit, but that it was given to Commis- to imagine. The character of the Prince of Walls sinners for liquidating the debts of his Roy al ought to he separated from that of the Prince Re- Highness. It was rather insinuated that those debts gent ; and he could assure the House, that a most had been incurred during the time of the restricted disadvantageous contract had been made for the pub- Regency. If that was the case, and it had been lie ; for if the public had provided a complete equip. fairly stated to Parliament at that time, there would meta for his Royal Highness, it was difficult to say have been no doubt but that the sum would have what sum they might have paid for it. It was not been granted. It appeared, however, to him, as if 100,0001. or 300,0001. that would have been suffi- Ministers at that time called for the money on pre- cient for Palaces, for horses, and other necessary tence of a purpose to which they knew it was not branches : either of those sums would have been a to be applied. They were, perhaps, afraid of throw- mere drop of water in such an arrangement. But the lag out any thing like a stigma on the conduct of his Prince Regent had adopted a system mach more con. Royal Highness at the time of the new sera ; and, gersial to his feelings : he had considered the sites. tberefore, proceeded in a more underhand way to ob- tionof the country, and had been unwilling to int. I fain their object. He concluded by moving for a Com- pose on it additional berthens. For what must have mittee to enquire into the application of this sum been the espences of the Regent, if his Royal High. Toted for the out-fit of his Royal Highness. I ness had thought proper to call open the people to Lord CASTLEREAGH could not agree to the support him in his dignity ? It would have taken a I motion. However the word enquiry might be genes sum not less than 100,0001. to enable the Master of rally popular in that House, yet as the vote proposed the Horse for three years to equip the stables. The went directly to a censure, he mast say tha , he saw Noble Leta had endeavoured to inform himself not the slightest ground for supposing that there had thoroughly on the subject; and, as fat as he could, been any improper er criminal application of the learn,.it appeared!. him, that 97,0001. were appria. money voted by Parliament As to the, general pre- piloted to claims ha the antecedent year. But tbms 1 judices of extravagance in the Civil List otpondkure, we must consider the positive property which his he hoped that these prejudices would not be ado p ted Royal Highness had handed over as an out - fit to by that House. It should be always recollected that himself. There was lay mode, therefore, hi which ha - - -4 , .•", . --•e1 -- - - _ the general fund for the liquidation of his Royil Highness's debts. Could the House believe, bow. ever, that his Royal Highness would ny, for the sake of obtaining 15,0001. 66 Value the wine in my cellar, and let me drink it as Prince Regent ?" The Noble Lord seemed to think (hat his Royal Highness had a right to dispose of Carlton.house •' but it had been distinctly made Royal property. He was sure that his Royal Highness would rather have come to the House in any shape, if he had been aware of the miserable statement of the Noble Lord. The 100,0001. were to he appropriated to a specific par. pose, but there was a direct violation of the Act, which he defied any person to get rid of. If din House were content to overlook this matter, then let them not in future find fault with any breach of an Act of Parliament whatever. What with the ad. tional grants that were made in 1811 to the Prince Regent, the Queen, the Princesses, and the Duke of York, the new era began at the price of lab sty 170,0001. a year to the public: but besides this, there had been since 100,0001. more applied far extra expences at Carlton house. He thought it due to the independence of the Prince Regent that his debts should be paid ; but for that purpose a regular Mos. sage should be brought down to the House, end they should not be attempted to be paid by a side.wind. • What the amount of these debts was he did- not, know, but he knew they must be large, as at least 100,0001. had been granted for their payment, he. sides 40,0001. oot of the Droits..of Admiralty %hien were paid over in 1813 to General noise, and when he asked for what purpose, he wtnt 40141 it• well felt some very pressing demands of his . Royal itiglarnses, But the persons by whom his Royal . 1111ghnees mug . 1 surrounded no dbt d heir views it t feeding him from ou time ha to t tient, own invited of e 604 . . WIWI], and stattaittitig the whet* ec the ehOsee ~. J ~.. . ..f4 j • ~~~~~~ "I T 1 1! I„ f' - • : '4 t