The National Register. — London, England, 1817-02-03 00:00:00

in the Address.—Thur, he a r !—He therefure moved that the Address be read. Mr. PONSONOV observed, there could be hut one sent'. went in the House ea the subject. in respect to the propriety of concorring in the Address.--hear, hew I—Whether a pis tol hail been tired or nut, was of no consequence, and could have no Whit nee on the decision of the House. The Address was then agreed to,ricut. WEDNESDAY, JAN. 29. The metnbets, at iht!l-past two o'clock, went up with the Address ou the happy escape of the Prince Regent; and the House adjourned till five o'clock. • At the Litter hour, on the I louse being resnmetl, LOlll CtICIIKANt: rose, and stated, ...lilt 111.7 held in MS hand a Petition from Bristol, signed by te0,701.1 persons. After making some observations, he presented the petition. It stated the distresses of the country—the numerous bankrupt cies in the Gazette—the starving population, and many other matters el a similar nature and prayed for radical reform. It was laic! oil the table. Lord Cucu RANI: presented a similar Petition front Quick, in the township of Sadilkworth, iii Yorkshire: it charged the Parliament as not beitig the legal Represeutatives of the wople, tee. Mr. VANSITTART WojeCtrd to this petition lying on the table; lie considered it to be a libel on the House. Lord COCHRANE did not hear one word of libel in it; but the Right Hon. Gentleman was nearer to the Clerk than him set, and he might hear it better. The ArroasEY•Getsreiar. contended, that the petition, from beginninl to cud, was a connived, determined, and deliberate: Ebel on the House. —( Mar, hear.) Mr. BROUGHAM denied that the petition was as set forth by the Hon. and Learned Getitleman--" a determined and deliberate libel on the prisileges of Pailiamcnt." He dis sented from the doctrines of this petition ; he was an enemy to universal suffrage, which would tend to the overthrow of the Constittition.—( Hour, hear!)—Bin he was a friend of Reform, and the advocate fur Amendment; therefore he did not wish to be mixed up in the general doctrines broached on this and similar petitions. With respect to Parliamentary Ramo, it should not be said, that because those who argued in favour of Pal liamentary Reform were of opinion that the nation wai not properly represented, and therefore stated that opinion, that they were libelling the privilege's of Par liament. it would be better fire the opposers of these doc trines to meet the petitions by reasons; and therefore he should so pi , ort the petition. Mr. CANNING was disposed to admit, with the Hon. Gen tlest in, that to state that this House does not represent the people, was a sort of language which might call fo• an answer; but when these petitioners went on to state that, by not being represented, the Constitution was suoverted—what was that, but an incitement to resistance, and a stet towards rebellion? (Hear, hear!)—He maintained that for a century past no one bad (west toned the right of this House as the representatives of the nation; and at least if the petitioners had complaints to make, they w ere not to insult the House. The House divided -Ayes XlB--Noes 136 Majority against it 87.—The Petition of coarse was rejected. Lord COCHR ANE presented another Petition similar in language to the former, from another town in Yorkshire. Mr. VANSITTANT observed, that, after the rejection of the last Petition, the !loose would not be surprised if this should be deemed entitled to the same Cite. The language was the same, and appeared dictated by the Sallie spit it. Lord CocwieAVE justified the language ot• the Petition, and maintained, that cotruptiou was too much supported. Fo• instance, he would state how he was first returned to Parlia ment; he came from sea with plenty of Spanish money, which he had foolishly expended in getting returned to Parliament for the But (nigh of Honitou. But how had he been returned? Wliy, in this way; the bellman of the town went about ringing his bell, and calling upon the electors to conic for ward, and receive each 101. 10s. They were invited to call upon Mr. Townshend, at his bank, which they did, obtained their motley, and then he was elected.—(Heor, hear!)—The fact was so notorious, that in certain places, for money, they would return to Parliament either Lord Camelfuld's black servant, or a great dog. Mr. CANNING SU 4SeAted to the Noble Lord to withdraw the Petition, and get the objectionable passages removed. The Noble Lord acqui, , sced in the suggestion, and stated, that he would inform the petitioners that it was the opinion of the BOti,e, The Petition was then withdrawn. The Noble Lord then piese•nted a Petition from Ashton under-Line, in which the petitioners, disclaimed hying "ac tuated by feelings of asperity or motives of revenge" in stating their grievances, which might have been avoided it' the " w:iole people had been in the House." The prayer was to the preceding ones. The Petition was received, and laid on the table. Lord CounnAan presented t similar Petition front the town of Oldham, in Lancashire, which was read and ordered to lie on the table. The Noble Lord also presented one from Aslitoo under-Line, which the clerk was proceeding to read, when Mr. VAastrtanr observed, a Petition had already been pri voted by the Noble Lord front the same place, and rereuved. Lord Cociirinsie said, this Petition would be found to con tain additien4l matter. TLe Petition was then read, and, being found similar to the last, was rejected bs a dirge majority, as were some others presented by hi• Lordship. Lord tMlu.•run wished to know if there was any truth in the report which had gone abroad, of the Secretaries to the Admiralty having received their salaries at the war allowance, on account of the expedition to Algiers. It lie received an answer in t h e alfu mat's' e, he should then hays: to submit a motion on the subject. . _ . Mr. CHOKER had no hesitation in stating, that during the time the expedition lasted the Secretaries did receive a war salary. It the Noble Lord intended to bring forward his notion, he had no apprehensions hot be should be able to answer hint satisfactorily. :les.Axv::: informed the House. that the Honse had this tla been up with the Address of Congratulation to the Prince Regent on his escape; and that his Royal Highness had returned a most gracio as answer, timid:Mg the Commons for tin., new proof of their attachment, and informing them that steps would immediately be taken for discovering the permit ~tors of this outrage oil public decorum. Nit . . W. Wv then rose to call the attention of the House to a certain distinction assumed by the Lords in the confer. swe which took place yesterday in the Painted Chamber. It had, on all former occasions, been usual for the Lords at a • . conference to it cowered on one hide of the table, mid the CuninEnis to stand tincovetril nil tie oth , .r ; this distinction yod a h r43 - 3 been tccoly given to the Lords; but at the con- THE NATIONAL REGISTER. fereace yesterday a different system had been adopted—the table was removed --the se.as of the Lords were elevated step—and the Cemmons mere kept outside the bar. tic had felt it his duty to take the earliest opportunity of taking notice of that circumstance. Mr. lintsslTTAtur had also remarked the deviation from the usual custom, but was inclined to think it arose from accidental causes; he was of opinion it would be as sell to allow the matter to rest as it at pre>ent was, and he had no doubt hut they would find things in the usual state in the next conference. The !WE.% KEN thought the subject had been properly no ticed ; and if it was accid-mtal, it would at least be proper to call the attention of the Lords to the accident. The Paint ed Chamber wus the property of the Lords; the corgi rences were always held there; and it would not be improper to send a message to their Lordships, requesting that the same accommodation might in future be aflOrded to the 01111014 MS at conferences as had been usual on former occasions. After some further observations fcom Mr. W. SMITH and Mr. W. WsNN E, the better Gentleman submitted a motion founded on this sougestion.—Agreed to. The several Standing Orders were, as usual, renewed. It was ordered that no petition for a private Bill should be received after the I-Ith day of February next, or any private Bill read a first time after the Ist day of March next. On the motion of Air. NSITT.ART, it was ordered that the House, at its rising, should adjourn to Friday. A Petition was presented from Horace Twiss, Esq. com plaining 01 the undue election of W. T. Money, Esq. as mem ber to serve in Parliament for Winton Basset.—The peti tion was ordered to be taken into consideration to-morrow fortnight. THESPEECII. On the motion of Mr. CANsitisGTtile adjourned delvte was resumed. The amendment having been read by the Speaker, Mr. Ct'n WEN regretted that he could not agree in the Ad dress, as he was extremely unwilling to add to the embarrass ment in which his Majesty's Ministers were placed by the ex traordinary and unexampled state of the country. Rut the conduct of Ministers during the last Session of Parliament had obliged him to do so. 'Through the whole of lust Session, not a single measure of retrenchment had been proposed by those Minist •rs. He could not approve of the Speech of the Prince Regent. To agree to it would be to deceive the peo ple. It was mockery to congratulate the people, us the Speech did, on the prospect there was of no new taxes being imposed, when the !two') of Ministers forbearance was a con viction on their minds that not a single additional shilling could be gained by additional taxation. The revenue had veen deficient to an alarming degree during the past year; but he feared it would be still more so during the present. The distress of the country would increase, and nothing could preserve its from ruin but the adoption immediately of the most rigid economy. He contended, that the labouring classes were perishing for want of employ. The labourers in agriculture amounted to 2,soo,ooo—those employed in the manufactures to 3,000,000. He would throw out of consi deration 500,000, and take the round number at 5,000,000. Allowing each of these individuals to have the power of earn ing EN. a week, this would produce a smut of 150,000,0001.: half these persons were out of employ; and what aims of individual benevolence could relieve the distresses occasion ed by this circumstance r The lion. Gentleman then adverted to that part of the Speech which said, disaffection existed in the country—he denied the assertion. Mr. BAPIKES disagreed with the last speaker entirely. He could not admit that the Speech contained any misrepresen tations. If Ministers had been guilty °fatty offence, it was, to say the most of it, having hoped too well of the country. The HIM. Gent. then proceeded to take a review of our financial difficulties, the failure in the revenue, the increase of the national debt, &c. and contended, that the resources and ettOrts °film country were still equal to the surmounting of all our difficulties. Mr. BROUGHAM thought there never was a time when the plain truth ought to be spoken to the people more undisgni sr illy than at present. He then proceeded to take a review of our present state, and compared it with what it was at the termination oldie American war; t which time, he contended, the country was in a comparative state of prosperity. The heaviest year of the American war the permaneut taxes raised did nut exceed 4,000,0001. During the late war we had raised in °tic year 35,000.0001. Indeed, so far had taxation been carried, that taxes could no longer be imposed upon the coma v ; or, if imposed, they could not be paid; out of this necessity arose the boast that nu more taxes were at present to be imposed. The Hon. Gent. then adverted to the pro posed Committee, and observed, that to render it efficacious its labours ought to be carried on promptly ; and therefore he would have it a peremptory instruction to the Committee, that whenever they came to a resolution on any subject, they should immediately, on the same evening, report that reFolu tion to the House.—With respect to the Speech, the Hun. Gentleman could not but lament, that notwithstanding the distressed state of our commerce and manufactories, not a word was said of any commercial arrangement entered into or set on foot for the relief of our distressed population ; anti he was convinced that the system we were now pursuing on the Continent was nut the one likely to open the continental markets again to us. Those who supposed that the over throw of Buonaparte overthrew also his continental system, greatly deceived themselves. That system still continued ; and with this most important and dangerous ditierente to wards us, namely, that under litiottaparte the system had not the support of the people, but now that they fully participated in it. CANNING agreed that the present was the most import ant crisis in which the country had been placed. He, in COllllllOll with the rest of his Majesty's subjects, felt the ills ' tresses and even perils of the State. But the real question was, whether the House would agree to carry to the foot of the Throne a determination to stand by the danger, and to endeavour to avert the peril—Loud cries of heart—" With respect to the Address, and the Amendment proposed, the only difference is, that Ministers consent by the Address to inquire into the ievoine and the expenditure, and the supporters would hazard the going to a division for the sake of obtaining a Committee on the state of the nation." The Right lion. Gentleman defended lifeline of argument pursued by his Hon. Friend (Mr. Ilitukc,), and maintained that Minis ters had as deep, as bull', and afflicting a sense of the situa tion of the rand ry as those Gentlemen who affected to feel tOr that situation, and who grounded their attachment upon long patriotic exertioas. With respect to the distresses, mut•.h of them, he was afraid, was above and beyond contrail. He might appeal to an Hon. and Learned Gentleman in respect to one part of the distresses, namely, the Agricultural Interest, which it was impossible to remove. The Right Hon. Gentleman adverted to a pamphlet of Mr. Preston's, in which thirteen causes of distress were stated, and only. one was to be laid at the door of taxation. Gentlemen had FEBRUARY 3. talked of the distresses, and asked, what hail Ministers done to alleviate these distresses? What reductions had taken place? Why, he might state, that the military establishment hail haen reduced as low as it could be, consistently with the safety of the country; beyond that, would be trilling with that safety; it would be paying a price a Inch the people would not desire. Ministers were prepared to demand a vote on that head of establishment, for a limited peri I 11 The Right Hem Gent. then observed upon the charge of the Hon. lientlearin, in respect to the disaffection noticed in the Speech, and that they were treated by Ministers as imnrgents and rebels. But how stood the fact? The assembly of Spa fields met for popular purposes, but among them were those whom the Speech might treat as disaffected. It was not common or people to harangue a popular assembly in a waggon loaded with ammunition.— !!car, hear It was not against the well affected ; hut against those who disseminated the poison, by exclai iii ing against relief; who considered charity as a curse! rebellion as 4 duty !---Ilear, hear! —Vilma er the question of Reform was brought before the House by the Hon. Baronet, he should be ready to meet the claim by a direct denial of the grievance; and further, he would be ready to prove, that for all useful representation, the pre sent Legislature was competent to all the purposes fur which it was first formed. What was the conduct of these reform er.? they began by finding fault with the war, which had established the safety of the country, and elevated its glory. " Fancifid theorists!" said the Right Huh. Gentleman," those who lend themselves to these theorists for visionary schemes of annual representation and universal sufirage, will find themselves in the situation of lambs, and Inc completely sheared." The Right Hon. Gentleman here read some ex tracts from the Spencean plan, and spewed the evident fallacy of that ridiculous system. Willi respect to the state of the nation, be reprobated the despondency which in some quarters was sliewn ; we had not yet risen to the sun of peace ; we were only in the twilight : fiir God's sake ! let us, said he, take care that we do not fall a pu ey to robbers and assassins. —(/ear!—lie conjured the House to unite, and little doubt would remain that the prospects would not only lie brightened, but that vie should look back with regret to the black phan toms which had been %R&M] to appal us. The Right Hon. Gentleman then, in a happy strain of irony, contrasted the present call of the Right Honourable Member for a Committee on the State of the Nation, with the one which heretofore they were in the practice of demanding, and which Ministers were determined to grant ; namely, a Committee of Income and Expenditure. The Amendment of the Right Hon. Gent. was that sort of figure which was called rigmarole ; neither one thing nor ['other.— 1 laugh.—A more i iiii ocent Amend ment lie never saw. He concluded with supporting the Ad dress; and assured the House, that while the present Minis ters retained their places, they would take care to preserve the constitution entire.— Loud cries liter, hear! Mr. TIERNEY Contended, that the eloquence of the Right Hon. Gentleman, brilliant as it was, could only be consider ed as transitory ; for unfortunately it embraced every thing huddle immediate topic in debate. With respect to Parliamen tary Reform, he (Mr. T.) avowed lihnself a friend to that object but not Annual Parliaments, or Universal Suffrage. He addmitted that it must be used with caution, and proceed ed on with much deliberation. But the fact was, the Amend ment kept close to the point, and, notwithstanding the flourishes of the Right Hon. Gentleman, was a fit subject for discussion. He objected to carry the words of the Address to the foot of the Throne, because he thought the country was in a state of extreme danger. In agreeing to the Address, the House would he giving, countenance to a de lusion. He denied that the falling oft' in the taxes was merely temporary; and maintaiued that the Committee proposed by . the .Amendment, would ettectuate all that was desired to appease the irritation in the public mind. After some observations from Mr. Vansittart, Mr. Saville, Mr. Preston, ixe. the House divided—For the original Address 261—For the Amendment 112—Majority 152. Lord COCHRANE proposed a new amendment, which sta'ed, " that in all the meetings which had taken place ou the SUR jeet of Parliamentary Reform, the House had nut discovered any attempt to break the public peace." No person was found to second the motion. The question for carrying up the Address was then agreed to, and at lialf-past three the House adjourned till Friday. FRIDAY JAN. $l. Lord COCIIRANE gave notice, that on the sth of Mardi he should move for leave to bring in a bill for the abolition of sinecures, and the reduction of salaries in offices that had lately been raised. Sir W. Lustutv presented a Petition from the county of Cornwall, pra)ing for a Reform in Pat liament. POOR LAWS. Mr. CURWEN stated, that lie had intended to make n motion on the subject of the Poor Laws: but if the /tom Gentle man on the other side intended to take up the subject, lie would leave it in his hands. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, on some future day he should give notice of a motion on the subject. A Petition was preseilled front the inhabitants of Rochester, complaining of an undue return of it member to set.% e in Par liament.—Ordered to toe taken into consideration on the 20th of February. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIIEQ►'UR moved, that a mes sage be sent to his Highness the Duke of Gloucester, and .ter Royal Highness the Ductless of Gloucester, to congratu late them on their marriage. —Carried, aeni. con. Air. BROUGHAM ow% cd for au account of the amount of all monies received during the war as Droll:. of Admiralty, and of the manner in which the same have been disposed. Sir F. BuitnErr presented four Petitions from inhabi tants of the town and neiglihourhood of Halifax, two of them praying fur universal suffrage and ammal Parliaments, and one for annual Pariiaments and sutkage co-extensive with direct taxation. They were ad read and diieeted to lie on the table. Mr. Bitounium observed, that after hearing these three Petitions, and many others that were offered to the House with the same prayer, he could not help making a few t marks to counteract the absurd and pernicious doctrines that they contained, and to call the attention of Parliament and the count+ y to one of the ridiculous blunders or wilful misrepra. sentations, on which they all proceeded. He had the great est respect for saute of the petitioners; he gave than eikt for the best intentions, and he could find apologies tut all their errors; hid what excited his displeasure was, Ora those who must rcad the history of their countr, who were nut ignoi ant men, who bad reflected long on wh..t they were doing, urged the uninstructed and illiterate to demand universal suffrage as their birth-right, to place it in the smile lank with personal liberty or sectithy of ortepel ty, to declare it die ancient imprescriptitile rights of Englishmen ; and toil tto sit si hose opinion they directed, as a matter of histrasy, th..t it was far this right their uavezturs fought and bled.—