The National Register. — London, England, 1818-02-09 00:00:00

9. The pctitiou was brought up and road, and ordered to on thy table. Mr. 111tOODEN brought up the Report of the Committee o 4 Supply, which was agreed to. • • .1 The usual Estiinates for the year were thee read and! agreed to. Mr. V. FITZOIRALD moved the third tetiblritof the Irish, Grand Jury Presentment Suspension Hill, and Sir H.PAIINELL spoke a few wurds,after which the bill was read a third time and passed.—Adjourned. :. powers as the Honnur,u/iike,OeutlepaspAllejled to,Oeitiot items cenfear'ed oo augi.inctslOns- _L, ;, Mr. °tip AArd . lye DpFs Notate Lord .11ml repty ko Abe neative ? Am I eu unditrad litse • Lttrd CA lI,TLICR [AGA ,VM,AS4 pytoO , M fray, thpg ,ataad replied iu the tieu4tivo i .1 SLAVE.TRADIts• Dr. Putt:Amu* moved' fora retttritif aIF veisets engaged in the slave -trade zaptinted,4y , Dritklv chips, end , hrought under the view of hlns Ceurt , tif Adniteatty in thii country; since the Ist of Jaausty;:llll, *tie. olio the'nuMbet of Oros' vessels restored,!the usatbertif ICeirdeluned, end the anodic! still pending; teethes-with in Atcount , :af slaves found in each vessel. O r d ere d. Th e H ouse ad j ourned et, billtintli six o'clock. t • • Tricassar. I • • Rev4NUE. In amen to e question trdm Mr. Cumin, the Chancellor of the Exchequer stated that en comparison Of the debt incurred last year and the debt paid off, there was a balance of more than 8.000.000 in favour of' the country. Mr. al. A. TAYLOR, preparatory to a motion, which in should submit on the 17th of February, for holding Amazes in the Northern Countits twice a year, moved for copies of the calendets of prisoners in the counties of Westmoreland, Cumberland, Northumberland, and Durham, for the last 40 years, with the dates of their respective comniitals, and the number of acquittals; as likewise the number of causes during the same period. Ordered. Mr. GREN 4 . ELL. on occasion of bringing up the Report of the Committee of Supply, rose to make some observations on the trans actions with the Barak. h had appeared, that iti the year 1816 the Bank had 11.000,0001. of the public money. For that sum they lent 5,000,0001. They indeedient 9,000,0001. eta percent. He would sup. pose that the rate of interest was then 5 per cent. The 1 per cent. then constituted a bonus of 60,000 L The trouble and experase of the Bank were said to beentided to remuneration. Was there a banker who would not say that he should be well paid for all this trouble and expense by 20,0001.? But we allowed more than half a million.— (Hear, hear.) Were die finalizes of the country ins state to warrant such profusion ? Was the condition of the people, groaning under the pressure of taxation, such as rendered this subject as unworthy of consideration ? (Hear, hear.) He trusted the Right Honourable Gentleman would not knititiir arrears against the Bank to the paltry sum of 3,000,11001. The Cliastcottoe of the Excnrount replied, that at present the rate of interest was higher than the Honourable Gentlaned had stated. e sum now in question was employed to pay off a debt they owe to the Bank. COMMITTEE ON THE STATE OF THE COUNTRY. Lord C4BTLEREAOH, in moving that the papers laid en the table by commend of his Royal Highness be referred to • Secret Cannirne. He admitcd that a bill of Indemnity might be necessity, end would be called fur ; but it did not erne, and gonna intended les solmslVool the papers on the table. It was not consistent with the pubik safety, and with the security of individuals who had been called rpm to act fbr the public safety, that the masons and circumstances oithele con duct should be disclosed. It was, therefore, necessary that Ministers should have a bill of Indemnity, to preclude them from heiog obliged to defend themselves in in Courts of Justice against every ladividisal who might complain of the conduct which they had felt to be tweet. nary for the public safety. An Indemnity was therefore necessary on abstract ground. Mr. TIERNEY ridiculed the course which Ministers were persu ing. He contended that the manner in which the papers had been brought into the House was altogether whitens a parrallel. No iUes. sage had accompanied them to inform the House on the nature of their contents.—lndemnity. he admittal, might be sometimes netts airy. But in the present instance, the Secretary for the Home De partment, or rather the administration, the he was only their organ. had been guilty of unwarrantable severity. (Hear, hear.)— I They had taken up no leaders, no persons connected with any dis tinguisind or opulent families; but they deter .a drag-net over certain counties, and sastal all within their grasp. lie had read every word of the Derby trials with the greatest care, and hie labour was indeed amply rewarded by the great and splendid abilities of one of the counsel for the prisoners, his Learned Friend Mr. Denman. There it appeared that .linisters, to speak in the gentlest terms of their conduct, had let the thing go too far, when it was in their power to stop it. There was some alarm last year; Nit the alarm newt did require a Suspension of the Habeas Corpus. Rut if any one thing disgusted the nation, whatever might have been their bleu of danger, or of the suspension—if any one fluty, disgusted the nation more than another, it was the public boast which referred to the agency of inter nal scoundrels who incited the people to rebellion. Ministers had a right tops infuniettion ; but to employ persons who, by their law watery language, excited to the very ails which ought to have beer. prevented. aunt then to drier the unhappy victims ~t their delusion to the seraffuld, tinned a mass of utrucious villainly whit:hum-sr emitted the annals of the country before. tII ear, hear.) Mr. B. HATlit'itsT begged to remind the Right honourable Gen tleman that he had himself heal one of the administration that brought thrward a similar mea.tire in (sot ; and although a night. Honourable I:entletnan then eppused it, it passed. The Committee were not humid to report 111VOrtling to the pleasure of al inject ; the words were .• to report as it shall appear to them, to the House.'"Che Right Honourable Gentleman had recount: again to the old argu ment, that none of the higher.ranks luv.l been iiiiplicm.ed in suspicion. This had not been 'trete:ideal du the moons of both .HOeites they were described in middle maks, Istwer classes, or some such terms.— - Ministers had a right to refer to whet had been prevented, as well as what had been resisted. As to spies, the Govanment might throw the odium upon inferior magistrate* who sent their informations to them. There was a great mass of people whose object was nut only any particular reform, but the overthrow of the Government. This was explained and proved in seven instances ; but the Right lion. Gentleman had no other memory of these but the abilities of one of the counsel. All were convictml upon trial, or confessed their guilt. They had expected support from varimn parts of the country, and that aupeart was prevented by the Suspension of the Habeas Corpus. Thom talus up in other places were the leaders, =coding to the in formation of tho,e locally best acquainted with them. It had been sold that a Committee by ballot was appointed by the Treasury. The Right Honourable Gentlemen had traduced persona alluded to, in language not Parliamentary, and particularly if he alluded to a per sons to whom he supposed allusion to have been made. That persons had excited to no improper act, and done no harm, but he had done much good to the public. Mr. DOWALAS entered his solerturprctestagainst the form of pro cowling which it now appeared tabs the mention of Ministers to adopt. He held it to be equally disissisiii aid &caulk! to the character of the House of Cowman% old Its wassails a idiot wins the whole conduct of Minimsniespeetingoba harmamembencer. Sir S. HOMILLY believed that the peepoond "Meet o r=tilag • Ina quite unprecedented, aid though at tunes adeglit any . direct message from the Crown. never. except is aosiropiadis of ' some precautionary legislative mormares. Now they had the highest I authority for knowing, that no such onsanres were intended. for they had been declared w be unnecessary in the speech of the Lads Cam mistime's, representing the Crown on opening the present seniort of Parliament. The only object, then, of apponiting the Committee must be to lay the ground work of a bill of Indemnity, which it was felt must necessarily be preceeded by at least the appearance of an inquiry, in the present state of public opinion. The house should recollect the responsibility which inch - owed to its constituents, and not be deiuded into a belief that a ballot was proposed for my oCier pitiatite than fur ..enuring a bill of Indemnity. The commun anu doemt forms of the Home were ,abandoned. when Ministers , w'ises conduct alone was in . question, were themsel ves m sleet the jiti t ,.2a of it. ire as, 'summed to hear the Hight Ilii,;iulrable Gentleman assert, that the trials at Demy hail fully established the neres-ity the S3spensiou Act; for if there was one dung more reinalkaide than '3 another in the course of those trials, it was, that the counse l f or t h! Crown studiously avoided. although challenged to it by the prisoners counsel, to say one word about the origin of the conspiracy, or in dis proof of the allegation of its having been caused by the Agentsof Government. In adopting the proposed plan of proceeding a most dowses crimple would for the first time be established under the regeboy of his Royal Highness ; and if its evil tendencies were not coneaud by Parliament, it might, at no aryl distant day. rnatenally &awe the constitution, and with it, the character of Englishmen for ever. He should only add, that there war no mason whatever for secrecy at presents and drat the only object, therefore, of a Secret Com mitsee must be to procure a bill of Indemnity. Mr, Pamirs observed. that one of the charges against the dis affected was, that they laboured to bring the House of Commons into content( t ; but nothing could so effectually reduce them In the . pub lic opinion as the partial election of a tribunal which was const ituted for such a purpose es that under consideration. bfr. C. W. Writs( in an able speech defended the Conduct of Ministers. not only under the Suspension but in the course now pro posed to be adopted. Sir W. Bututooana anadmadverted in strong terms to the con duct of Ministers. and expressed himself decidedly hostile to the pre sent measure. Sir J. SEIIILIOLIT thought there wain° discontent or distutbmnee in the country. whi c h might not have been checked by the ordinary powers of the law. ar i d th e or di nary v i gour o f the magistrates. The events, in his opinion, did not at all justify the extraordinary remedy which had been resorted to. (Hear.) Mr. ELLISON. adverting to what had been said about the con ' fission of one of the Derby convicts, said, that what Brandied' had mentioned about Oliver in his dying moments, was a gross false hood put into his mouth, which wan believed to be false by all whi heard him. He could state, that in the quarter from which he can eminaties had been sent from Derby and Nottingham to disturb quiet people of his neighbourhood. The suspension act was, in his opinion, perfectly jtstified ; but if Ministers could not now make out a good case of justification as to the exercise of the discretionary pflw • err intrusted to them, he pledged himself that he would vote again s t them. When every thing pious and religious was attacked, he could not but protest against such stuff, such trash, and such non sense. Mr. Saviu.6 censidded the country as much improved since laet year. in its commercial, agricutural, and manufacturing interests, but he could not altogether give the ministers credit for its ameliora tion. The hints, the s t rong hints which they had received from par liament, induced them to adopt the measures of economy and retrench ment, which had boon so successful. Mr. FORBES did not think that the measures which his Majesty's ministers had adopted had been by any means uncalled for or urine cesaary, though he considered that some different use might bare been made of them. The question was then put and agreed to. as were the questions that the Committee should be one of secrecy. and should consist of t I members. On the question that the Committee should be appointed by ballot, Mr. BROUGHAM again opposedthe course of proceeding. The House the a divided. For the ballot, It/L.—Against it, 29. Majority for Ministers, il. Adjourned. Fs /DAT. WAYS AND MEANS. The CHANCELLOR of the ExestE Qt) ER moved the order of the day for going into the Committee of Ways and Meow. lie after terwarda moved that the Speaker should leave the chair, on which he rose to propose the usual and annual grants, and a further great for the rep/acuig of Exchequer Bills. He moved a Resolution in the Commutee to grant the annual duties on land and malt. amount. hag to 5,000,0(101. Mr. 'lleum r remarked. that it appeared that the Grant requi site would amount to 33.000.0001 The CHANCELLOR of the F:XCHEQUER said he should propene a vote of 304000,0001. to xylem Exchequer Bills. Mr. TIERNEY was dewtous to know what were the reasons fur considering that the sum of 30.000,0e01. would be sufßeitnt ? Also whether the 6,non,Otxd. to tie Bank were to be raid otF in money so The eitAricrxxon of the EXCHEQUER had not the sinalksS hesitation in declaring. that it was the intention of his Majesty's Nlini-ters that the repayment to the Bank of the lo4n of n„tgat.ot 01. should be made in money, and not in Eeelaquer hear.).—Upon the other more general subject which had been ad verted to. although not now before the House, he was desirous of making one or two observations. If it should become necessary to propose to Parliament the postponement of the iesumption of rash. payments, it would not be from any purpose of consulting the con venience of Government but would, be submitted on grounde per fectly distinct. Mr. 'Flynt:ex thought the Rt. Ikm. Gentleman's exrlanati• .11 perfectly satisfactory as fur as related to repayment of the (4t0n0,(4 , .1. in money to the Bunk, because it would enable the Bank to do what in his opinion they ought to do-. talon: the amount of their il66Ur* ; but lie hod witnessed with great dismay, the sort of levity a ith which the Right Hon. Gentleman tr.uted the very serious geminate, whether the Bank was to return to its vgulur payments this year or the next. Mr. F. Lute:Ascii& he inept avow himself to be extremely an slow to see the circulating medium of the country replaced as soon as pee• Bible on its only secure bseis. Lord Casr Lent:sun said, that it would affonl the utmost sa. tisfaction, end, be might be allowed to say, it would constitute a triumph to his Majesty's Ministers, to witness the resumption of cash payments by the Bank but they had another duty to lereoe t y,, the duty of defending and promoting the commercial interests of the country. M. IiASIMERPLEY thought it might prevent much delusion, and serve to check those transactions which were now going on to an alarming extent, if the Noble Lord would distinctly declare that the provision of the treaty of 1814 constituted no guarantee to subse quent speculators in the funded moperty of Frar.tc. Lord CASTLEREAGH said, the debut which were due by the French Government at the period of the treaty of peace o f 1814 British creditors, arose out o f a confiscation of British property early in the preceding war, in contravention of an article of the treaty if Amiens. The case of these creditors was entirely different from that of persons speculating in the public funds of another country, who had not the remotest claim upon the security of this governmen:. lie was anxious that it should be understood that the interests of such persons could not be made a national object without the most ruinous political consequences. The Resolutions wets then read and agreed to; the Report to be re ceived on Monday. BALLOT. _ - - - Mr.l3noonrerr. brought up the report of the Committee which had been appointed early in the evening to scrutini.to the lists of names for serving on the Committee of Secrecy. wl!en it appealed that iLe election had fallen on the foSowing et I,ii n4-is Lord Milton, Lord G. Cavendish, Lord Castlereagh, Lord Lasrelles, Right MOO. C. B. Bathurst, Hon. W. lanihe, Sir A. l'ii4got, Mr. C. W. Wynne. Sir W. Scott Sir J. Nicholl. The Attorney-General. Tass•Soliator•General, Mr. Canning. Hon. C. Yorke, Mr. W.. r_ Oaf. Mr. Wilberforce, Mr. Bootle Wilbraham, Mr. W. Dun.. , Site R.Pael. Sir W. Curtis, Admiral Frank. Sir M. W.Il IllL EY reinarked, that his :mtge Fri en d Caviaidish, was at a considerable distance, and in eircumet • • !.; made it impmsible rim him to attend. Ile wished ti. 1. • ./ arly objection was fe:t to the nomination of Mr. • 1 ord CASTLLREAG I I apprehended that . reeding perfectly 'neon Asn•nt watt die tn,..ur. by . ballot The noble lord, whose • • ....vs-sr milt of view a most prupe' person to .•)•• . • • t• ' bably as such, hod been elected. Tile - (incstifin. that tl.o cm, •• .•: t ;• day), on. then rallied... o• the c.Al,lll:tt.t. of, a o eic 'now.' . .ativi, ••• / 7. WEDNESDAY. • SUPPLY. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the order of of tha day for going into the Committee of Supply, to which he moved that various accounts of Exchequer•bills should be , reterred. Oat the question for the Speaker's leaving the chair, Lord FOLMEsTONE made some observations on recent alterations in the mode of proceedings in the House, as to the in. r of publishing the votes. The change was in some respects conveni-tit ; bitt he saw souse objections as to the not piloting. of petitions, sinless the printing of them was ordered by vote. The pinning of those petitions certainly tended to delay the publication of the votes. Yet it wt's possible that it might be injurious to the people, and therefore he regretted its tendency in that way. Ihe printing of the votes of the house liras the only regular way in which their proceedings were trade public to the country at large. He should do no more than mentiou the circumstance, hoping that the House would never be inattentive to petitioners. The Speaker then left the chair ; and Sir G. WARRENDER rose and mentioned that there were some small increases in some of the public charges. Of these, in the Admiralty de. partment, some arose from expenses at St. Helena, and on the Smith American station; but all the estimates had beet' found ed on mature consideration. Gentlemen must he aware that an increase had occurred in point of wages to seamen, by the employment of those of a superior description. The number employed was smaller its proportion as to the men. A5O gun ship might, during war, have required 300 men, but in peace be reduced to 300 men, although the numberof guns remained the same. It was proper to notice this, in looking at the charges of ordnance. He then moved for 20,000 seamen for 13 lunar months, which was agreed to ; also fur granting the sum of 611,0001. for pay; for 520,0001. for victuals, 0.c.; and for a sum for wear and tear, wnich motions were also carried. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose, and intimated his intention to propose a replacement of money under the grant of 24,000,000 of Exchequet.hills, and also a further grant of nine millions. He begged to stale, that the amount of Excliequer.hills was now less than had been predicted by some Gentlemen. It had been said, that on the sth of Jan. IBIS, they would be at 60 millions : but lie was happy to say that they were three millions and a half less than that. They amounted onl f to 50 millions and a half, and a small stun more. That was the whole amount. Ott the other hand, it was to he considered that the funded debt had increased 19 Instead of a deficiency in revenue, there was a diminution of public debt. He moved for the sum of 23 millions, on the ac• einnt of Exchequer-bills issued. Mr. Tie:neer observed, that there was some difficulty in understanding the estimates and their results. The charges on the unburden debt must be paid off. The total amount ef stock in the hands of the Commissioners had never exceeded 15 millions. Tile motion was then agteed to. Further conversation ensued, in which Mr. TIERNEY re quested to know, what was the amount of ont.standing F..x• chequer-bills ou account of deficiency of revenue. The Crieseet.i.oft of the Excuistavett could noeglien ex. actly aus wet.; butt, as we understood him, he belieeteekvot above 1,000,000. On the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER'S motion, a vote was passed fur 9,6044000 on outstanding Eachequer.Lillsq t t 441 funded ; also for 6,000,000 on Exchequer - bills tot 1,. - standing and not provided for. e • • 4 The CHANCELLOR of the ExCHIQUEtt observed, tIII/4, those woe a surplus of 3,009,000 last year, considering the operas kr& respecting the reduction of toe funded debt. The issue of Exchequer-bills had hems 12,000,000 more last year than us the year proceeding. Mr. (Mims mss rejoiced to understend that only 3,000,000 core had been added to the public debt. The CHANCELLOR of the Exeneuumt said, that the Hot.; Gentleman might still have greater ICASUII to re Juice, bias. /wick as there was not an addition 43,000,000, but, in the true •iew of the subject, a saving to that autumn. Ihe motions were passed in the Committee. . . _ Mr. Srtnt GE% 110 C It N E moved the renewal of the Contntiitee ott the lour Ur. CUIMEN expressed his objections to the existing state of the Poor Laws in this country, the operation of which, under all the circumstances, tended to break ilow:i the spirit of the people. by driving them to look to the Pours' Rates as a relief and a refuge. Sir F. duerierr did not mean to oppose the appointment of the Committee. He could nut exactly accord with what had just been said. He did riot believe that any great alters. dun had taken place in the character of the people of ibis coubtry., bnt lie did believe that much alteration had oecurred in their eirctunstances. They Isere, in his judgment, the same active and industrious people ::s they had fOrmerly been; but they tied not the .same means of being comfortable as they formerly hail, for the want of the necessary funds. Ik entertained no doubt that the real cause of their wants sprung from enormous taxation. As to inquiries into the Poor Laws. so much spoken of during the lust two years, those laws hail existed for centuries, and while the poor were iii a much better condition. He was not Ik I kkk self an old man, yet could he remember, even in his own time, when a boy playdig about his fathes'e house, that laboirring persons took pride against coining to the poor-lionse, and even boasted that none • of their family had ever done so. Where, then, Willa remedy to time existing evils to be sought? It could he found only in reduction, in retrenchment, and in economy in the application of the politic money. Lord CASTLYR coati remarked, that the Honourable Bart.'s observations were more connected with the general policy of the country, than with the particular subject of the Poor Laws. Mr. Elwyn'tam said, that seeing a Noble Lord not exactly in his place (.1 laugh), lint on his way to it, he was anxious to ask fur some iliforstiation respecting the select Cominiotre lu be appointed. Did the Noble Lord intend to accreite !011ie p►opusitiva which he had taken the liberty to make on the rs t night of the eeps f Having thru oblaiuell uo satisiac. tory answer, he Dow again asked, Nheihei the Committer to be appointed should he furiustied chili limners to tali tin ',knower papers and every necessary source of accurate in. formation Lord CasTi.enEAoft replied, that it was intended to itanw the prt;cedeut of tvittiet CllllO Of a Diuular uutnte. S4.tli . I • e"""Nilk!!! : iv • • •J A J M 7 50