Star. — London, England, 1803-05-14 00:00:00

■ Itc refources. The Noble Lord bad Aden laft year as the criterion by which he might form a judgment of the flare of our finances. That ap peared to him at leaft an objeaionable mode ; and he would Thew that, on an average of the laft Tears, our revenue is in a Rate of improvement. He alfo reminded the Noble Lord of the difficul ties with which we bad to contend—the great es• ertions and extended dominion of our rival nation. With a Chief Conful, whole extraordinare power , - influenced as far as the Adriatic on the one hand, and to the Elbe on the other—they feemed, like the ancient Kings of Perfia, almoll to think the Continent their own. Lord Ps sm•re referred to the obfervatinns made by another Noble Lord (Lord Grenville). He obferved, that the latter part of that Noble Lord's fpeech had confiderably relieved his mind from the apprehenfion he was under, in eonfequence of the mode of argument adopted by the Noble Lord in commencing his fpeech. At. the conchilion the Noble Lord had reduced the fhppofed deficiency of revenue to four millions. It mutt be confider ed that the King's fpeech oflaft year had expreffed the great anxiety which his Majefty felt upon the !late of the country in one particular point of view, and had intimated a with that his Parliament fhould make a (citable provifion for that partku- Jar public exigency. In confequence of filch inti mation. Parliament had authorifed the expendi ture, and Minitlers had expended confiderable Cams of money in bounties for the importation of foreign corn ; that was an . objea which moil ne eelfarily facreafe our expenditure beyond what was at &A - efikaated, and of cootie turn the balance again@ our revenue. With refpel to the extra building for the navy, which the Noble Lord had alluded to, as not being mentioned in the accounts before the Houle, be believed there was nothing on the face of thefe accounts which would warrant the Noble Lord in Paying that it was an omiflion.— There was a general charge of expence incur ed on account of the navy, which was Rated in round numbers, without defcrioing the more minute par -ticulars of which it was formed. No deduaion could, therefore, be fairly drawn as to what was .or was not included in the general charge ; and he had no doubt that filch expence was included in it. There was another objeSl which the fpeech of the Noble Lord alfo embraced—the Imperial Loan. That had by Come been called a fubfidy ; in his opinion it would have been a grofs impofition on the public were Minifters to have called it fo ; for, although it was evident that there was no item in the account, which Rated that Aullria had ever paid any portion of the principal or intereft, yet it was equally certain that nothing appeared to (hew that Auflria had refuted to pay : and he could afore their Lordfhips that there was nothing which had come within his knowledge which could in the ]tali induce him to have any doubt whatever of the good faith of that refpatable ally. Still if, notwithftanding any reafon which he might now have to reptile fuck confidence in Aultria—Rill, he Said, if any unforefeen event Should occafion the nonpayment of that loan, and it would eyentually become (as it mutt necefrarily do) payable by this country, even then he would fay, that. admitting it to be in its arca eqatnlati a fulafidis.,that Sill it was advantageous to.the enanuy.:On the whole, he could fee no retifoa for the iaterfereoce of Par liament to invelklaate eftimatea foemed k and prices incurred, under fedi circumaancepaethai. ima.which we were then placed. • . . Lord Gaepp4s, etplained. Wu former de claration, or tuleull - what he had intended to fay, vat, got that be meant to term the Imperial Loa:. a.Cubfidy, but that, if it were converted into a (stbfidy„ it would be even then an objet which the country might confider in an advantageous point of view, with refpea to the policy of the meature. The Billsop of Sr. Asarw declared, that at other times ,he might have thought the 41,44:1 -lion lion of the accounts .upon, their Lordllsips' table abfolutely necellitry, becatife, if they were corral, that correanefs would be belt eftablithed and moll clearly freed from any imputation by an open and fate enquiry, and, if they were incorrea, there was witching which appeared to him more clear than that error ought to be entreat& But, under the relent circumtiances of the country, be thought at.mould be extremely improper to take up the time of their Lordibips in deliberating on the coffee aseCs of an account tonight, when. probably, they might to-morrow require the attention and ability of that. Houle to be engaged in a much more im pqrtamtobjetit of difcufflon, namely, the means of checking the ambition and of punithing the info knee of—he did not know what to call him—he mutt sot yet call him our enemy. but he, would call him our we efstrial4 fritadi .The question was then of on the original mo tion, which was negatived without a divifion. DESTROYING OS SNIPS. Lord Et.tanaottouois apologlfed to their Lord 'Mpg for drawing their attention to a frills fubjea, after the fatigue they had already fullained. But the importance of the fubjeft, he hoped, would have its due weight with their Lordfhips, when he called to their recolleaion the cafe of two perfons =celery to a crime, not becaufe they were not conviaed, but becaufe of the inefficiency of our law; that is, the law vas (efficient to point out a mode of punilhnieht for the crime of which they were convieed, but' it was incompetent as to the place of jurifdi&ion. The care, no doubt, was frefh in the minds of feveral of their Lordfhips, it was one where perfons had dellroyed a (hip evi• dently with an intention to defraud the Under writers, and through the infufficiency of the law they efcaped that poniffiment they fo julllT me sited. He now prefented a Bill to afcertain the jurifdiaion in future, with a view to prevent as much as poffible the perpetration of Inch crimes. The Sill was then read a firfl, and ordered to be read a fecond time on Monday. ADJOURNMENT. Lord PILNAM moved, that the Hoofs (Could adjourn to Monday next. Lord Damns , laid, that however he might be cenfured by other Noble Lords, he mull, feeling it to be his duty to his country, exprefs his difap probation of motion to adjourn to any more di& sane period than the following day, what MioiPcrs "Irefot that Ruin and The public in a nate orforpenes as to any knowledge of the Rate ofpublic affairs.. The Loan CHASCILLOIL left the woolfack, ant' laid. that the Noble Lord had ufed the word een fare, and teemed to apply it to him. If it had not been that a remark of a limilar nature -had beet. made by the fame Noble Lord before, and that i'l cemed by his looks as if he applied them to him, he fhould not have taken notice of them. fit would then declare, that it was a thing which he would never prefume to do, to cenfore him or any other Noble Lord, for any opinions which they might entertain. But the Noble Lord had ufad expreffions refpefling the conch& of Minillers, which he was well allured they did not as yet de. ferve ; and he felt Itimfelfmoll thonwighly jullified in contradiaing exprellions of unfounded cenfore. He was well convinced, however, when the Noble Lord knew as well as he what was their real mo tive, and what it was that occafioned this condo& of Minillers, which he now thought fo highly cul- pable, he would then expreft himfelf in very dif ferent terms. lilt was to be confidered an °Ned of that Houfe's duty that it fbould fit for the lake , of publifhing ne% s. then it was right that they Ihould meet to-morrow, for the reafons which the Noble Lord had Rated; but, for his part, he thought it fo very immaterial, that if the day of adjournment was to be decided by his changing his place of fitting on the woolfack, he would nut move an inch to one fide or the other. The quellinn was then put — But Lord DARNLPY ohferved, that it was not his intention to take the fenfe of the Houfe, but only to expels his dif.tpprobation of fuck an ad journment.—Adjoutned till Monday. HOUSE OF COMMONS. The giin for Preventing Frauds in the Cale of Coals, was read a fccond time and commuted. Sir 01040 E Cotetwsig reported from the Committee ap pointed to try OW :point of the Petition againft the Return for Btfhops' Cal le. that the Bitting Mentbt.rs were duly ideated— and that the petition agairß them wax ftirolo-s and vex flout. Marithan*Dfispree w-s resit a firß, and ordered to be read a feeond time. On the motion of the Attorney General, the indemnity Bill was read a Grit time, and ordered to be read a fccond tame. The Soldiers' Families' keiief Bill went through a Commit • tee, and the Report was ordered for Monday. - lhe lath Cour-s of Law Bill wai read • gd time, and pale The Silver and Bullion Bill went through a Committee, au the Report wa • ordered to he brought up on Monday The Committal of the Medicine Duty Bill was pollpo-ed dl Monday. The Militia Families Pmatilion Bill, after the adopt/on of a Clank propaed by Sir W. E , relative to the peculiar re-, gulations of Plymouth, was read a third time and pared. ILCHESTER eLFCTInN. Mr. Rose laid. that he thought hirnfdf In candour bound to !tate his intention, that he dionli on Monday nett. when this fubjeet would come under dlfeuMon, propote. that the Hook dinuld agree to the three aft resolutions of the Committee op rintsd to try the merits of that Elettion, and alto that the A:torney General Ibould he diredted to proisarte the parties to whom elan& refutations referred. Mr. I. H. Baciwn a gave notice that he would. on Tuefday 'nest. move, in a Committee' of the whole Houle, to conader the Report of the C.oannittee appointed to inquire into the Coo &done and ReguLtions of Yards carrying Pailengcrs. NIGOCIATIOW WITH FRANCE. Lord G L. Gowen —" Sir, I think it necefrary to move, that this Houfe do, at its rifing, adjourn till to-morrow. The preterit firualion of public affairs, I conceive to he in urgent as . to warrant me in making fuck a motion I cannot but recolledi the hall debate upon this fubjeft, when on Friday loft the motion for adjourning over till the follow. ;ing Monday was oppoted. I am convinced that. the Houk Should not have at that time put itfelf out of a Situation of receiving communications , relative to the important bufinets on which every one was interellird: the intelligence which was re ceived on that night eviMpletely contntdifted the itatemeut made by his Majclly's Milliners upon the fame evening. The news of Lord Whitworth's not having quitted Paris on the particular day ex petted. appears to jußify that fuppofition ; for that intelligence was of Hilt a matter of fitiffieiend importance to form the filbjeft of a coramunica. tion to the Houfe. It Might have happened at that time that Lord Whitworth had remained at Paris in consequence of the French•GovernMent having acceded to the propotals offered by our Court. and' he may now remain from the fame cook. Seeing,• therefore, that there is a ponibility that fame com munications may arrive before to-morrow, I think that this Houle ought not to put it oat of its own power to receive them." The Ci.ilitiClLLOt of the EICIIIIMIRR" I sp., prebend. Sir, that it is neceaary for sae to foinething on the prefent motion. I objeet to it principally in point of form. It is impoffible to admit it. Such a motion was never before made in this Houle. The Houfe may, u a m;tter of courfe, adjourn till to-morrow. An adjournment mull in general take place from day to day. The only terms in which the queßion can be put is, that " this Houfe do adjourn ;" and Such a motion mutt be made after the Houfe has difprifed of the Qrders of the Day. The Noble Lord will fiirgive me, when I fay that he has not been well advifed in regard to the mode of making his motion.— He Ilsould hate Amply moved. that the Houfe should adjourn, or delay till it was propoted by tome other Member that the Houfe Should adjourn till Monday next, and then he might have amend ed the motion. What have now raid refers to the form ; but my principal ohjedion goes to the fubjeft of the motion. The Noble Lord has laid, that the cireumnances which have occurred Since the debate on Friday lan, have difproved the Rate. Mont made by his Majefty's Minifiero. He, how. ever, is certainly miftaken in that particular; for I mull fay. that it was not difproved I I only Rated. that I was convinced, that from the air. cutoliance of General AndrenS having applied for paports, that it was alto probable Lord Whit. worth had by that time quitted Faris; but I never 'Said, that Lord Whitworth had 'filially quitted Paris. The Noble Lord has expreffed his regret, that this Houle did not fit on Saturday lan i and many other Gentlemen may, perhaps. exprefs a like regret; but I know of no circumnance that ought, in the lean degree. to excite regret in the mind of any Member whatever. Sorel am, that it ought rather to be a matter of confiderable fa tistartion, on the part of all thole who fnpported the motion. that the Hoeft did not aetually At oo that day ; I mean, owing to she dangerous code , - I!pitmen !which Might have refprted from their fri 'ming ; and I beg the More to pardon me for ant Rating my reafims for raying fo. I did intend, it the riling of the Houfe today, to propofe the dual motion of adjournment, without making any Afervations whatever, being perfeetly determined to anfwer, as dißinely as I could, any objection or amendment which might bepropofed. Oa Friday lall 1 Rated to the Houfe the opinion which I en- tertained. that Lord Whitworth was aCtually upon his departure from Paris ; but owing to the cir cumflances which I afterwards alluded to, I am not now able to exprefs any opinion, whether that Noble Lord be or be not on his way towards this country ; I may, however, exprefs my thorough conviction, that there is no probability which ad. mits of the conjeaure, that there can be any com munication from his Lordthip in fufficient tame to be with propriety laid before this Hottfe to mor row. Owing to thcfe circumilances, therefore, I beg . that the Noble Lord who •firft Itarted this motion, will not now perlia in it. but that this Hook do at its riling adjourn to Monday." Mr. Cartittmo.—.. Sir, the Right Hon. Gentle. man who on Friday lall made the motion of ad journment to th'e day following, followed, in my opinion, precifely the fame mode which has been purfued this day; and the amendment which was then priipofed was Rated in a fimilar manner as the prefent one. As all the rules of this Houfe are, I perfume, founded on good fenfe, I cannot diflinguilla any degree of impropriety in any Mem- ; bet riling to move for an adjournment on Saturday. l With regard to the objedion. in point of form, 1 which has been Rated, tt ap,:ears to MC to apply f fully as well to the one cafe as to the other, and i on that account I cannot difcern why filch :in objeftion was not hinted at on the former occafion. After it has been Rated, _however, by the Chan cellor. that on his own conrietion, though we o ere aftaally to meet to-morrow, it could not be in his 1 power to make any communication, I than not perfill in prefling a divifion. Here, Sir, in fn re fraining from periling a divifion on this queilion. 1 ficF leave to drop a few nbicrvations which have , ecuried to ms. I prefunne, from the manner in hich the Right Hon. Gentleman fpeaks this day, hat he has fume pofitive atTurance that he cower ~,,m, be able to make fuck a communication to morrow. There is thus, from his own account, no chance of ability to comply. but I may fay.that 'if it had 1' happened that he had reafon to doubt of the prability of his being enabled to do fo, I fhould certainly have bcea willing to put it to a divifirin. This is not a time, Sir, in which the Hoofs of Commons fhould confult its ordi nary Drape and particular caoms; no, nor even ought it to eonfult its own convenience. It ought molt undoubtedly to be at its port, in order to be the channel of conveyance of intelligence which, like this, fo peculiarly concerns every individual in this country. In proportion as I conceive a Parliamentary communication to the Public to be preferable to one toiling out of the Stock Exchange, relative to the grand point of Peace or War, In much do I look on the one motion as preferable to the other." The Ctiancenaoa of the EXCHICUJEIt." Sir, I admit that the obfervation which has been made by the Hon. Member, with regard to the proce dure which was adopted on Friday lag, has been fairly ltateda but I (*abash to you, whether or not on any other previous occafion, a motion, with a view to adjourning to another day, was ever ex +reed in any other terms, than "that the Houle do now adjourn ?" I Rated that I was thoroughly convinced, that no information could be received by this Government, in confequence of which his Majelky's Minißers could confider themfelves ena bled to make a communication to this Houfe to mOrrow. I mull repeat it again, that I remain Rill of that opinion ; and further, that I conceive that no communication ought to be made by his Majeßy's Minillers, till the pending Negotiation be either terminated amicably, or that our Am haliador, Lord Whitworth, be aCtually arrived in this Country. Nay, I will even go farther, and Rate, that I fee no probability of my being abler," make any communication whatever tomorrow. — That is at prefent my opinion; but even fuppofing it to be the cafe. that I thought there was any ex• I Ming . chance, I klill acknowledge , that I would imagine h tq be incumbent on me, in the prefent cafe, to mate the 'dual Motiod of adjoitrament to Monday next, as I cannot at ill reconcile it to the oinicy of this Hoofs, and to the refpettabi ! fey *Fag Country, that we the Members of the Hoof( of Commons &add fit upon an nnafsal day. merely owing to the chance of receiving a communication, for Which there is no probability whatever." f , Mr.yr. refpeft to the motion brought. 1 forward by the Noble Lord, after the pofitive at: fertion made by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that he WAS convinced no communication could be made on the 1)1lowing day, I am difpofed to think that the motion ought not to be perleyered in.— But when the alertion of the Right Hon. Gentle man is accompanied by fame explanation, and when he appears to polefs t o me information which it is not proper to communicate to the Houk, I doubt whether the Houle ought to adjourn till Monday. I with Gentlemen would recollea the ' fituation the country is placed in. A week had elapfed fence the Houfe received alarming news, that deprived the public of all hope of the prefer. ration of peace. Since that time, nothing has been made known to the Houle. on the fuitjett of peace or war; but the Right Hoo. Gentleman, in his fecund communication to the Houle, on Monday left, laid, that matters were in fuch a train as mull fpeedily lead to a decifive refult. Coupling tbefe eireumilances with faas which were within the knowledge of every body, I put it to the Houle to, judge of the propriety of adjourning over until Monday next. A Me ff enger left Town on Saul.. day left: Intelligence has fine been received of his arrival at Parts on Monday. Then, I will elk, whether on the prefent night, or the next morn ing, intelligence may not be received, with an ac count of that decifive refult f Perhaps while the Houle continued fitting, fuch information may at. rive. Is it, therefore, in Inch an unprecedented fasatioa, iA Atosneat of fuck infpencc, too much to A, tbet . tbelloufe,by fitting nn the Saturday, may be in a &tuition its which it can learn that de cifive refult, for which the Houfe and the country have fo long and and•aly waited? Lail s erk. when it was propofed that the Ifuulc sh o uld fit on the Saturday, anfwer was made, that no commu nication could be given on that day. But on the Friday night a Meffenger did arrive from Paris. And on Friday, when the Houk was debating on the fnbjee of adjourning. Curie Gentlemen in that Houk were in potreffion of inform i a recently re. ceived from Paris. I had myfelf heard, that Lord Whitworthisdepartere from Paris was delayed. Par. liament is now placed in a very extraordinary ti; us tion. The Right liar. Gentleman, with flume de gree of r demnity and mystery, has congratulated the Horde on the circitmliance of its not fitting Lill Saturday; bemire he apprehend e d that con fequenres would follow, of a nature which he does not think pr,•per to explain. For my own part, I can fee nn mitchievous confequences that were likely to wife from the Houle meeting that day. The difficulty in which the Houk hands at pre fent is, that information mutt be expeeed: it is hardly poffible a night car dr•cfe without fuch an expeaation. But the Ri g ht lion. Gentleman told the Houk, he knew not when Lord Whit. wnrth should arrive. On Friday lan, the Right Hnn. Gentleman informed the Houle, that all the papers containing the correfp•.ndence that paired during the negotiation were ready for the prefs. The Houle by that Ofniement was given to under hand, that information would fpeedily be laid be fore it. I thnuld now with us know upon what prin. ciple the Right Hcn. Gentleman thinks it would be improper, immediately after the arrival of intelli gence, to make fuch a communication as would re. lieve the Country from a Rate of anxiety ? and I cannot underhand how the arrival of Lord Whit. worth can be material for that purpofe. But per. haps the information received by his Majefly's Go vernment, may be fuch as would not be fare to com municate. There has been undoubtedly every ap. pearance of that which is likely to lead to hi:shay ; but fuppofe the decifive refult should be an accnna modation of the difpute; and fuppofe intelligence of that fortunate event Ibould be received in town to-morrow, I will aft whether that is not a fisa which might with propriety be communicated to the Houfe to-morrow ? But it has been Paid, that Saturday is an unufual day. We have frequently met on that day for the private convenience of thole who had !airliners to carry through Parlia ment; and I think it much more proper, that the Houle humid meet to-morrow on that bufinefs which is now the fubjse of difeeffion, than on any of thole occations which have hitherto canted the Houfe to meet on a Saturday. I fee no probabi lity that we may not he placed in the fame lima. tion next Friday which we are in at this moment. Therefore, when the Right Hon. Gentleman pro poles to adjourn to Monday, I will certainly take the fence of the Houle on that queflion. The Seeaxea. As I have been in tome IMn ner called upon to give my opinion with regard to the propriety of the prefent motion, I think it pro per to inform the Houfe, that I cannot, from my reading or my memory, find an inliance of Inch a motion having been made; and I am of opinion, that filch a motion is not continent with our orders or our proceedings." The CH art c a Loa of the Etc:mope, —"Sir, the Hon. Member who jull fat down has hated truly, that on Monday lath I informed the soufe, that ' there was a probability of the Negotiation being brought to a decifive refult on Timidity or Weel. nefday morning ; but circumilances did occur which produced Come delay. What thole circum. fiances were, I htipe the Houfe will not require me to Rate ; but I can azure the Houle, that the delay will be inconfiderable." ; Lord G. L. Gow s sa.—l withdraw the motion, only on account of form. The Camicsccoa of the Exert envie moved, "that the Houle at itssifingd radjourn toMonday." Mr. H. Laic LLLLL thought it due to his con. Rftency to Rate his realms for not adopting the fame line of condua on this occafion, which he did on Friday haft.. He Iltould not, on the prefent quehinn, give any vote at all, and he was deter mined on this, .from having found himfelf, on the former occation.' with a party which had given a fylkmatic opPofition to Government, and which had prejudged the quettion. Mr. Fox made foam aberrations. in rapt,' ets foesething which fell from the lath Speaker, and. then proceeded in the following m anner appears very Prange to me, that the Right Hon. Gentleman fhould think it nesetfary that Lord! Whitworth thould be in this tonstry before any communication &mild be made toe's; Hook.— When the Right Hon. Gentleman illatatt.on Mon day fail. that the negotiation would be brought to a decifive refult by 'rueklay or Wedisefilay lag. and at the fame time espreffed his coavidion. that be (hould be able to make a communication to tis• Houfe in a very few days, did he expea that• our Ambafrador would have arrived by that time? He certainly could not have travelled fo as to heist this country by the time the Houfe was to receive the protnifed communication. Therefore, on Men. day kit, the Right Hon. Gentleman could not mean that Lord Whitworth mutt be in this country when fuch information was to be given. —But the Right Honourable Gentleman has told us, that new circurnßances have happened fines. and thek, he has not thought it proper to ex► plain, but they are in tome degree made the, ground upon which the Houk iscalled on toadjokill to Monday. I cannot guefs at what there cit. cumßances are : but I mull fay, if the bbfincfs had been fettled on Wednefday LW, a metfenger with an account of it mull have arrived in London by this time; and in that cafe the Houk ought to be ready to receive every necerary information, as it was fit it Oiould know its fate as loon as poffible. Suppok it happened that a metfenger should ar. rive with the happy intelligence of every difputo between this country and France being amicably fettled : fuppofe this news Mould arrive to-night or tomorrow morning. I will afk, if it is not fit that the Houfe thould have that news communicated to it tomorrevr ? Is not this Houle the props, channel through which all ieforntation &mid he