The National Register. — London, England, 1823-03-09 00:00:00

4 1 X - • ~-~ :.~-"'- a.... of the* House to enquire whether it was commensurate to such permute. If it were tno little, they ought to add to it ;if too vouch. it ought to be diminished.—(Hear, beer.)—About this right be thought there could be no doubt. The House had changed the established religion, and mild do so ageiu.—(A langls.)—Such was the fact. If the legislature were to make Quakerism the established religion, (uuell laughter,) the bi shops, clergy, 'and all the paraphernalia would be useless. Supposing all were Quakers, what would become of the church property? To show that it was public property, he had only to refer to the Statute Book. There were, fur instance, 20 Acta to prevent the clergy from rob',ing the church. Having thee established the rigid, he proceeded to advert to the over grown church eldahiiihments of Ireland.—The population was 6,800,000 ; or 490,000 souls, were Protestants ; there vere about the same number of Disecntera ; all the rest were Catholics. There were 22 bishops, 1/8 prebendaries, &c.— in all 511 persons attending the chapters, &c.—Were su many persons requinitt to manage and superintend 1,289 benefices? They could nut.—V by were so many idle persons to be main tained ? Why bad the army been reduced ! Because there bud been more than were wanted, and more than :bey could alford. All the deans and chapters °debt to be reduced.—(llear, hear.) —They were not wanted—there was middle,' for them to do.— (Hear.—He concluded witlithoving for • commitee. The resolution that a committee be appointed was preceded by two resolutions, declaratory of farts that merited investi gation. Mr. GOULBOURN replied at considerable length. Ile 'maintained that the principle of the bon. member's motion called on the House to interfere with the church property of Ireland ; that such property was granted for specific purposes, and that so long as the church existed, so long as the Julie. were performed, it would be unjost to Interfere with such pro perty. He trusted that his veneration for the church was not a blind veneration ; lie hoped it was founded on retional grounds; and he therefore viewed the proposition now sub mitted, in el.-.els ever why be contemplated them, as decidedly unjust and uncalled for. Mr. Peel and Mr. Plunkett opposed the motion—tie subject was already under the consideration of the Irish Government. Mr. DEN MAN supported the motion—he considered inquiry as necessary. Mr. Ill:ME replied, and The House then divided—For the resolution 02—against It 167—autjority 105. This division was on the second resolution. The other reso lutions were negatived without adivisioo. Mr. MARRYATT thee rose to move for papers relative to the situation mid manner in which his Majesty's ships the Dotterel and Coma:ion were employed in August lase—Upon this motion some conversation took plaue, and ultimately the . motion was negatived. 'Time other orders were agreed to, and the House adjourned. weDNESDAY. MARCH 5. The Marriage Validity Bill eras read a thud tine sad passed. The second reading of the Marriage Act Revel Bill watt postponed till Monday. LONDON BRlDGE.—Aldenosn WOOD presented the report of time committee on the petition, and afterwards obtained leave to bring in a bill for the - rebuilding of London Bridge. The committees of sopply and ways and means were post poned till Friday. The Scottish Creditors' Bill was read it third time and passed. ' The Assessed Taxes Repeal Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow. Tire Jesuers.—Sir T. LETHBRIDGE presented a petition from W. Parker of Coe k. It particularly complained of Lieut. Bird, an officer at the Cape of Good Hope. The existence of Jesuits im Ireland had been denied, and the proof had been dared ; but still there was good proof that such learned reel lied existence. At Stoneyhured, itiLancasffire, there was sorb an establlehment ; as individetel of the name Bird, the brother of the p6rson named by (lie petitioner, being at the head of it. Its existence lied been recognised in the House of Lords, with the statement that the serious aftentieu of Parliament must wan be called to the subject. The Jesuits had large societiets 1 11, • „Meth, kingdom, and were largely on the increase; and an bed'. learoset, a friend of his, bad stated, that 30,0001. were trans - *bitted to Ireland from Rome, fur the ertablishment of a Je eoilical or Catholic College. The sum of 16,006 i. bad been lath out in pnrchusing Clongoine,s College—the proceedings of such societies ought to be wate'aed. Mr. C. U. HUTCHINSO,N admitted that be knew Mr. Parker ; tirkt be was a good father, husband, and friend, arid that he had claims on the g' pvernment for disappointments at the Cape of Hope. Had o l e lie' ..,111 been given to him, he should have presented it. 'however he might diner from' its object. Mr. WILMOT said, 'he Colonial Department knew Mr. Parker, het they could sot make oat a case for Wm. Mr. BROUGHAM. a Averting to the petitiohs which ha had preheated on a former t Jght agaient thes Jesuits, said, that Were was a general imPrese ; .on of the fact of their existence. Mr. M. FITZGE otALD said; after Cardinal Gonsalvi's letter to Ms Poynt4 if there was any society of Jesuits in Ireland, they had kottlie sanction of the See of Rome, and tharei ore might be 'epersed.—Petitiou ordered to he printed. Mr. ABERCItt 1311.1 Y rose to bring forward bis motion re specting the Sec met (or Orange) Societies. If Orange So cieties were *lli fable end harmless, let truth prevail, and let the Government defend them ; if, on the contrary they were prejudicial and contrary to the laws, let truth prevail, and let such sooieties be put down. Their suppression would be a benefit to the / Oatholic, but a much greater to the Protestant.— Thee were e •ntrary, in hie estimation, to the laws, and he wished to se • the laws triumphant. Ile pointed out the mis chiefs and V. its proceeding from the secret societies called Orange Sc' eieties, and ooncludiog with moving an address con damning I Jrsnge Societies, and stating that the House was willing le, co-operate with the government In the suppression of the smut Mr.. ';OII.ILBURN econenrred in the general sentiments ex presseer by the hon. mover, and admitted the rejudiciat ten. dency of secret societies; but be expressed the hope that the Seeci elks would not be Comm ?needed with other secret sucirtiem, the • professed object of whittle was the separation of the two go vernments. Whatever misoldevous resells might ensue from • the Orange Sooieti es, and he admitted them, it would be rev ellected they were formed to support thogovern /tient. The! lied, h./Nee:vie so interwoven themselves with ' lu g` " rticl ' s 01 l'aciety, that the suppression b. them would be difficult, mic *. e ' h e impossible. Ile begged the recent alfairs in Ire lae,er. Aud the conduct of goverument respecting them, might $l,l the made Netter of discussion now, (Hear ! ) If. stated '.'.eat the Marquis Wellesley, in late despetuties, itch rPnwnlP tended the government to bring forward a measure to 44 , 11 , 4)'141{) the laws of Ireland regarding secret societies with OM al' of England. —a recommendation which it was the Islam& 4 1 of goverusiumi to submit to the House. (Hear! ) • -THE NAT/GNU, REGISTER He wished that, previous to the present motion, he bad bad the opportunity of making such proposition to the House. Sir J. NEWPORT thought these societies, and all secret societies, ought to be put down without delay. Mr. DAWSON tlefewied the Orange associations, *bleb he said bad always been found standing foremost in defenoe of goo.l order, the laws, and the constitution. Mr. M. FITZGERALD strongly reprobated the Orange So cieties as tending to promote factions and divisions amongst the people. He strongly urged the present government to adopt the same energetic course as was adopted by Lord Cornwallis when he took on himself the government. Mr. PEEL declared himself the decided enemy of secret associations: he always had been so; he had so declared himself when Secretary for Ireland, is 1814. At the same time, lie was most ready to acknowledge the high merits end great services which the Osangent. r Oof Ireland had parfornied, against both foreign and dont:Alio enemies. He believed their principles at present to li d loyal and constitutional; hut these principles might lierer; f r tr degenesate; and filiatever their me-. rim might he, he rest discountenance secret associations. As the lesr now blt,d 111 England, it was an offence to below:, to a society in which secret •ustlis were administered, but in Ire land it wit, necessary to prove the oath administered. He had no ollie'Acia to make the law in Ireland the same as it is In Engl,cd. After a few words from Mr. Grattan and Mr. Canning, Mr. Abererow.bie's motion was negatived. The other orders were disposed of, and the Horse ad journed. THURSDAY, MARCH 0. INSOLVENT DEDVORS.—Mr. DENNISON presented a peti tion from :M. Mary's, Bermondsey, against the Insolvent Debtors' Ad. One petitioner had 89 persons on his books aim bad taken the benefit of such acts, and from whom he bad never recovered one farthing. The hon. member thought it was nut nectasary to state a stronger fact in it ustration of the laws respec ling Insolvent Debtors.—Ordered to be printed. The Horise went into a Committee on the Irish Assessed Taxes Repeal Bill.—Report to-marrow. The Liam Exemption from Toll Dill, being to explain the General Turnpike Act, was read a second lime.—Ordered to be coin Jilted to-morrofv. MESSAGE FROM 111::. KING.--"Mr. PEEL presented it Mes sage from his Majesty, (see lords,) which stated that doubts had arisen respecting the right 14, 'dispose of copyhold, lease hold, •:nd real estates, cot his Accession to the Crown, and that the same doubts were likely to elf act his Majesty's successors ; his Majesty therefore recommetaled the House to take the subject into consiiLerstion, and No adopt such measures as might be deemed roquisite. Ordered to be Haim into consi,leration to-morrow in a Com mittee. ' POWER OF Tll7. CLtoWN.—Cisionel DAVIS presented a pe tition from Col. Allen, late of the 35th regiment, heretofore stationed at Gturrnsey. It was another proof of the mon strous character that had been assumed by the Crown respect ing the distuissi on of officers. Cola Dailey bad accused him of snaking faluei returns, &c. .A court-martial was called for and granted ; and Col. Allen vtas tried on two charges for making false returns, and Ror trying a man at the drum-head. He was found gwillty of the flint charge, and he was ordered to he reprimanded. The King 7 confirmed the sentence, and added to it that Col. Allen was to retire to half par, or qait the army altogether by sellio g hi, commissiod. He trusted that the Otllff, would listen to this case. _ . Lord PALMERSTON said, the prerogative of the Crow• to appoiut nr dismiss officers was lauquestioneble, and of long usage ; and it wi lb essential that ii should be maintained. The petitioner vir as found guilty of the' charges iirefervitl against him : he Nether bad been nisglectfial of orders ; be had been debited to abstain as much sill possible Irmo the infliction of cor,orat punishment, hut in .14iite of this there were frequent creirt : m artists. In a few ino attn. 79 individuals were tries', oo whom :were inflicted 0,900 lashes. General Bailey bad ones , - tsectel.ly went into the soldiers' quarters , and he found two men 'in the sick ward labouring ooder the severe effects of recent corporal punishment. No returns however had been made on the subject. This led to ao inquiry, and it was found that within a short period 15 men were tried and received 1,700 lashes. All these things were io spite of Gemmel Or. dere, andlkere was no ground of the emergency or the mug to justify the dram-head wrests-martial, the dogging, His Lordship then read 'omit of the records of those courts martial. One man for having two bl',nk cartridges in the breast of his jacket instead of being in his eavtridge-hos, was sentenced to 25 lashes—another 2.1 lashes for supporting his musket, instead of shouldering it—snd 'nearer 100 lashes for drunkenness. Another man (all of them tried by dram-head courts-martial)oas sentenced tor having hulled his musket in the air, in an ansoldier like way, had IL lashes. And this was the individual who was to be held op air haling been the victim of military tyranny. More might balm been °barged against Colonel Allen ; be was equally unmindful of his superiors and his inferiors ; and it was not found'thst he ought to be continued in the command of a regiment. 'He was permitted to sell his commissions, all of which he had received by the pure grace and favour of the Crown. Mr. G. BENNET was glgd to hear what had fallen from the noble lord—he was glad to find that the system of lugging was so distinctly disavowed. Col. DAVIS said be only contended that Colonel Allen had been proceeded against in an manner. Ile was the ad vocate of principle, and not of the man ; and when the Mutiny Bill was brought forward, he should propose a chose to pro tect olli..ers against the exercise of such pewer on the part of the Crown. Petition ordered to be printed. Mr. (OULBURN rose, in pursuance of his promise' last Session, to bring forward the propositions of Government on the anbjeet of tithes in Ireland. He should ask for leave to bring in two separate measures. The brit would be for the commutation of tythes for a time to he limited. It would be proposed that the Lord Lieutenant should have the power, on representation from a eertain number of tithe payers, to as semble whet he would call Special Vestry for the Diat►iet.— Such Vestry should have the power of limning persons to ise- Kociale with the incumbent of the parish. or rather witla•• person ell behalf of sush.inonmbent, to adjust what ►hould be the tithes for a time to be li Ailed. If the Commissioners should fail in settling the amount of the composition, it would be noropeteot fur them to appoint an umpire ; and shoo d these parties tail, the Lord Lieutenant might ■ppoiot a commissioner to settle the case. After various details of the measures, ho concluded by mowing for leavo to bring in two bills to regulate the commutation of tithes, &c. in Ireland. On bringing up the report of the Nobuaki Debt Reduction Bill, Mr. CALCRAFT sttongly opposed the measure, as Wets laded to put an end to any further reduction of taxation. He would propose that a further consideration of this report be postponed to the 20th of April. On tba motion the House divided --- -~~ ;. IS For the motion of Mr. Cslentil 37—For receiving the Re. port 91—Majority SO. The report wai then received. The other orders were disposed af, and the ITh" ad . journed. ERIDAY, MARCII 7. re The House was summoned to attend the House of Peers, to bear the Royal Assent given by eoMmiseion to sundry bills. (See Lords.) TAX.—Mr. HUS',.. ISSON presented a petition from Persons i° Liverpool, r.eyin i ; re, the equalization oldie Howe. Duties—a petition, '...nwever, which he roold not support. The CHANCE%.,LOR of the EXCHEQUER did not think the petitioners had so strung • claim to relief as the retail abol'keeP"', f rom the Window Tax. Mr. 11 .01 E asked whether, in the proposed remission of Wipti Ay Tax, it wee intended to make any reduction regarding inn ir windows—whether, in fact, it would not be advisable to ;cited the duty respecting inner windows or borrowed lights ? they were the objects of vexatious surcharges. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied, that lie had no inteetion of proposing such special relief ; indeed, if be were to attend to the iustances where partial inconvenience was eullered, the revenue would he frittered down in various directions, till there would be litile.or nothing to receive. Petition ordered to he printed. Lord FOLKSTON E postponed his notice of malice re specting the Equitable Adjustment of Contracts, founded on Mr. Thompson's petition, to the 23d April. Mr. PEEL, in • Committee on his Majesty's Message, moved for leave to bring in a bill to remove certain doubts re apeetiog the private property of the Sovereign. In the exist ing law, there were various anomalies, which be was desirous to remove.—Leave given. Sir G. CLERK gave notice that on Friday next, be should in a committee of supply, move for the navy estimates. Lord PALMERSTON moved that the House go into a cent ' niiitee of supply. Mr. CREEVEY said, they were to be called on to vete away 0,000,0001. for the army, in as thin a house ea he had seen this cession. He concluded by movies as amendment, pledging the House to cut down the several departments, &o. as much as possible. Sir T. LE BRA DOE admitted the distress of the country, but he questioned whether the army could be rednoed to what - it was in 1792. The giving up of 10 per cent. out of the Civil List by his Majesty, was a magnanimous proceeding ; but a similar reduction on the part of the great olficers et' State would pot be sufficient. Lord PALMERSTON world not prolong the discusaioa, bet be could not avoid remarking that the items of the esti mates, if deemed objectionable, ought to be objected to in the committee—that sinecures were prospectively abolishecie—that Saialies were prospectively reduced, eves those that lied not Me advanced. Mr. HUME supported the amendment. The estimates ought Sit Its be proposed in so thin a house. Besides the 6,000,0001. fir the army estimates, and 1,000,0001. fur the mitreorilinaries„ there was half a million for the yeomanry, expencea for various Weber oWeots connected with the army. He wished to seethe *lseumtry in such • state as not to require so lugger may ; but imbiais-role, it would not be required. The pule ought to meepiain of such estimates and expenditure. Amendment negatived without • division. The House thew went into • Committee. Lord PALMERSTON said extended detail would be unne cessary. The estimates were much the same as tut year. In the estimates there was a diminution of 18,0001. ; fur the in fantry there was au increase of 24,0901. Staff reduCtion 7,0001. on the whole of the first class (here was a reduction of 24,0001. In the garrison uherges there was some slight increase; but in the fall pny of retired geserel ollicers and per dons there was a diminution. In the Windsor pensions there was an increase of 2,0901. On the whole estintetes there was • reduction of . 18,0001. ; and compared with the estimite of the finance com mittee, there was • reduction of 9201. He concluded with moving the first grant, 09,0001. for land forces. Mr. HUME thought there might be considerable reductions. Be should not move any reductions of men, at this particular moment, dist it might not appear as if we were not prepared 4 support that line of policy which it was lu be hoped our Mi• Misters would persevere in enforcing. He however partionlarly complained of the number of cavalry ; they were at oace the most expensive and useless species of force. Sir A. HOPE defended the cavalry as • eyeful force. Mr. DENMAN said, if peace were likely to be maielained. the estimates would be much too large ; but the question might be dilferent I. 24 hours, for each arrival seemed to threaten the termination of peace. The ',rejects that had been avowed by the semi-barbarous powers of the North were of the most monstrous chaeacter. They were too abandoned and mad to think it possible that they shaali ever Ins acted Urea ; but now they bad heard them avowed in the Senate of Femme. He wee glad to hear the sentiments lately uttered at Harwich •...1 Li verpool (by Mr. Canning and Mr. Huskisson); and beetras for .• Civil and Religious Liberty all over the World." lfFrance should attack Spain—il • French army crossed Ore Pyrennees„ lie hoped that such moment would !who'd us deolaring i war agsinsu France. Our own safely world require such a worse of proceeding. He was not disobeyed by the empty benches. because he trusted those who were a b sent were engaged in just compliment to the representatives of the Spauish peopl First resolution agreed to, Lord PALM EILS roN then moved for 1,800,0001. for land forces. Mr. HUME wished regiments of 800 strong at least to be kept up ; the maintenance of " skeleton" regiments, in the event of • war, was a• unneceevary expence. The recruiting department was very extramigent. There were various other objections, whim% be would urge in • more particular manner on the bringing up of the Report of these estimates. The grant, and several other grants, were egreed to.—Re• port on Monday. Tke remaining orders and business having been disposed uf, lba House adjourned to Monday. SPRINO AND NgATM— meeting of the parties RIO their mends took place on 'I lay night. but lung was done.—Spring, in person, was te,tly to stake filmy sovereigns to fight in May, from two to five hundred, claiming a rightful forfeit of twenty-five sovereigns, due to him, and upon which much was said„—Neate„ when first matched against rr ill broke lois :ant iu irainitte„ and the 601. deposit became a forltit to Si l ; but the Bris.olonian) brought it to a. wrangle, and Spring was lucky in himself to get 251. of the money. lu the se. mot, and very recent match, Spring's hacker foifeited 1501 which was not immediately htr,hcoutinp, hilt it hos since been paid to Nrate, with an tintler.tanding and the promise of Tom lielener. unit Sprung si hI IC. CCIVC the 251. ju.,tly due to Witt upon Neste's foneit. 4 1.4 it.. 10 WI/ ; -dor II -*- r,.. - I _~, MINA