The National Register. — London, England, 1821-05-07 00:00:00

•agaoce of ministers, he feared that the people would cease to have confidence in the house. The gallery was then cleared for a division on the amendment. The numbers were—For it 22—Against it 62—Majority 30. The house then went into the committee. Lord PALMERSTON proceeded to move the necessary grunts fur equipping troops for the East Indies, 23,1271. •Agreed to. Lord PALMERSTON moved 16,2001. for the Royal Military Academy. Mr. HUME objected to the grant. He disapproved of the institution. The country was called on to pay emir. moos expences for young men for the army who never could get into the army. In the last five years the col• lege had cost about 120,0001. I here had been upwards of •100 young men educated, but only 169 had been ad mitted, and thus their average expense each was lltd. and upwards.—(llear.) Could it he desirable to keep up so extravagant an establishment? If education were requisite, had received no military education. The system ought to be altered; there ought to be no more educated than were to have commissions. He, however, thought that it would be better really to do away with the college ; or, if continued, only to educate those who should receive commissions ; who should not be turned ■drift after have lug had a military education. The staff cost upwards of KW!. to take care of 290 boys. There was a governor, with 15001. a year, and four horses, a deputy-governor, Ate. and the professors were equally extravagant. There were four French teachers ; why would not one do? and there were live clerks to keep their accounts. Was such au establidinieut necessary ? Those young men ought to help themselves; and yet they had treble the number of assistants allowed in another seminary. He proposed a reduction of 7,2001. After sonic further conversation the committee divided —For the amendment 23—against it 32. The original motion was then agreed to. Lord PALNIERSTON next moved that 175,9001. be granted for the pay of generals not having reg . .uts.— Agreed to. The next proposition was, that 28,0001. be granted for the pay of gueeinors of garrisons. Mr. 111.1:11E said, some of the appointments were moat extravagant, and ought to be done away with. He par ticularly instanced that of Gibraltar, given to the Earl of Chatham. In his lordship's hands it was a complete sine cure, indeed there was a deputy with 3,5001. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY replied, that the governorship of Gibraltar was not so complete a sinecure, as Lord Chatham was about to proceed on his appoint ment. Colonel DAVIS contended, that such fact was no proof of the inutility of the appointment; berides, it had been understood that on the death of the Duke of Kent the governorship should be abolished, instead or which a suc cessor was appointed with what he might term indecent babte. On the grant of guards and garrisons, Mr. HUME proposed to reduce the sum named iu the resolution, by taking from it 19001. on the ground that so 111111:11 might be saved on the garrisons of Berwick and Gibraltar. After some discussion the committee divided on this proposition : For the amendment 20 Against it Majority against the amendment-67 On the resolution for granting 115,6001. for half-pay officers, Mr. HUME proposed a rednction of 13,8701. for half pay of having oppointnients iu the veteran batta lions. A long conversation followed on this proposition, which was, however, disposed of without a division, the amend ment being negatived. On the proposition for granting 121,2651. to officers of foreign corps. Mr. HUME proposed to reduce the grant 3,0591. at present paid by officers for agency, from which charge, be said, the officers ought to be relieved, and then that sum might be saved to the public. Lord PALMERSTON contended that this agency was necessary in justice to the foreign officer, whose set vices we had taken advantage of during the war, and who ought now to receive their pay without diminution foe agency or oilier cause. • Colonel DAVIS said, he understood there were many instances of foreign officers receiving hall-pay from our government, and at the same time holding commissions in tereign armies. This lie contended ought not to be per mitted. Lord PALMERSTON said, lie had inquired into this subject, and the result was, that no foreign officer haviue accepted in foreign service, had drawn his halt-pay from this government. 'flue resolution for the original slum was, after some further conversation, agreed to. The other resolutions were disposed of, and the House adjoutued at a late hour. TUEBD AY, MAY I. The Westminster Improvements Bill went through a committee. Report agreed to. aad bill ordered to be read *third Hine to morrow. The CII ANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he was prepared to begiu business by half-past four o'clock. if gen tlemen pleased—the time fur public: business hitherto had been five, or soon after. Suert.v.—.AßMT ESTIMATE'.—.—The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER theu moved, that the report of the committee of supply be received —Agreed to. Several of the items were agreed tu.—On the item for the Star. Mr. O. BENNETT rose. He observed, that it was the intention of himself, or Isis hon. friend, to mate hereafter a eerie' of resolutions as to the establishments. Not with. standing all thnt had been done, they had neither shamed the house nor the ministers to reduce either the great sums or the small j but he felt assured, that the house a mild nt ver again see such scandalous estinintee. The public would nut fail to recollect that such advantages would have been gained by a f•w is Winds but it aas lamentable to think. ith 17 days exertions they hail beets unable to gain the lion of the house on the sulfject. Theiettne it wars to ed to bring the whole question before the house in a es of reso!utions. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER (Jellied that resolut bud linseed a ithout any alteration, nor a here Y what the house bad an 3 occasion to be ashamed of. laity of the succeeding resolutions were then agiced to. that to DI i I: Milli tittles The the res they w Alen ) THE NATIONAL REGISTER On that respecting allowances to general officers not having regiments. Sir R. FERGUSON complained of the hardships of many General Officers, reiluctd ill mere 11411 pan. lie knew sin instance where an individual hail served the king faithfully and diligently fur 40 year., and yet he had not appeared to have been of as much consequence as a clerk about to be removed from office, lie hoped that ta;:ing some care of such an officer would not be deemed improperly breaking through rules The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, the case could not escape the attention of Government. Resolution agreed to—as were the remaining resolutions. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCID.QUER then moved, that the resolution respecting half-pay officers be taken into consideration. . Cul. DA VIS said. this was a subject which merited the attention of the house. There were near 9,000 ufhcers receiving half-pay—such pay amounting t 0163,7811. ; but they had little chance of getting into full pay. Such had been the system of favour, that where one half-pay officer got into commission, ten persons were appointed who had not before been in the army. This he considered a great hardship to the officers, as well as something like breach of faith. Lord PALMERSTON said, the wishes of those in civil life must be attended to—for it was essential to identify the interest and feelings of the army with those of the people. Mr. HUME observed, that, had he been in the house earlier, he should have made some statement of facts as to the resolutions that had passed—hut the opportuoity would recur when lie brought forward the general propositions which had been adverted to by his hon. friend(Mr. Bennett.) He concluded with moving a resolution, as an amendment, declaratory of the number of commissions disposed of during recent years, distinguishing those by purchase, &c.—there having been 1100 coininissions, upwards of 500 of them without purchase, and given to those who had not before in the army, while there were so many half-pay officers unprovided for. To have provided for them would have ediTted to the country a saving of 365,0001. Mr. HUSKISSON hoped the amendment would not be pressed. If it were agreed to, what %%mild be the practical etlert t It would be that one person ought to have been brought from civil life hill, the army from 1816 to 1821. It would be to assert tl.at the army should be closed against those who might seek the profession of arias, till all the hair pay officers are disposed or. Mr. HUN] E replied. This resolution would not interfere with the regulations of the army. It was his wish to close the army against persons desiring Commissions till the half pay officers were disposed of. Ainendmeat negatived; resolution agreed to. Adjourned. WEDNESDAY, MAY 2. Mr. BYNG presented pt titions from the parishes of St. James and St. Martin's, which, after adverting to the police regulatiun bill now before the house, complained of the nuisance occasioned by persons hawking goods about the streets. Mr, S. BOURNE presented a petition from Lient.-Gen. Thornton. It called the attention of the honse to the act of Geo. 11. trussed fur regulating the publics houses and houses of entertainment, by which it was provided, that any house in which persons should assAnble to practice the amusement of music or dancing, should be deemed a disorderly house, and the persons so amusing themselves be liable to be taken before a magistrate and committed as vagrants. The peti limier also stated, that it appeared from what had been published in the public prints, a cumber of respectable in dividuals who had assembled at a house In St. rllartin'sslane, to enjoy the amusement of dancing, ignorant afire existence of such a law, were taken into custody, end so kept during the MAW, and subsequently carried before a magistrate. A similar circumstance also occurred in another part of the metropolis. The petitioner urged the vexatious nature of the law w hich subjected innocent persons to such severe pnnishinetit, and imp/area an imperative daty on magistrates to imprison persons who a ere ignorant cud innocent offend. ems. He further said, that he was a magistrate and liable to be called on to discharge this duty, which he could nut du without sensations most painful Its himself. He therefore humbly submitted to the house that th- law should be altered and that the constables should in the lit et instance only warn the persons thus assembled to disperse. He hoped the house would take it into their serious consideration, and in troduce some regulation respecting it into the police amend ment bill.—Petition read, and ordered to be printed. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that the house at its rising should adjourn to Friday. Agreed to. Mr P. GR EN FELL, hay.ng again adverted to the enor mous profits made by the batik on the balances of public monies in their hands, moved for an accouut,showing on one side the sumpaid by the public to the bank, as interest at the rate of 3 per cent, upon money advanced by the bank to make good demands on, and deficiences of the consolidated thud ; and on the other side, Coe amount of the interest at they per cent, oil the balance. The loni, member observed, that the balance in Apra List was 3,731,0001. Agreed to, after some remarks from the Chaucellor of the Exchequer, Mr. Baring, amid Mr. Ricardo. GLascOw Mors...Lord A. HAMILTON presented a petition from an individual named Turner, who had resided in Lanarkshire for twenty years, complaining of the arbi trary condo, t of the Lord Advocate and the ministers.— ' The petition er about a year ago was taken into custody min charge of treasonable and seditious practices. He (the petitioner) was Committed to prison, kept in close confine ment, but lie had never been brought to trial. He there. fore called on the house to afford him redress for the loss of character which he had sustained. While confined he had been subjected to considerable severities—pen and ink, Ite. having only been allowed at the commencement of the con finement. The noble lord, though lie had to present this pe tition, deemed it just to bear his testimony of the general guod conduct of the magistrates of Glas,aiw, during a sexy critters' period. The petitioner further gad, that his house was searched for papers and arms. Some volunteers' arms hissing been found—and that a charge of high treason was mentioned—and yet, after hull! or ten days solitary confine meat he was admitted to bail, although he riuderstood the charge lobe high treason. His lordship observed, that the conduct could nut lie justified. Ile natal not call on the Lord Advocate to give up those suit. ss Ito ini;,llt give infor mation, but he might call on the learned lied fur au admis sion of the petitioner's innocence. The LORI) ADVOCATE ohserved, that as to the appre hension of the petitioner, it a be admitted that imprison at one period was jostihable, %Melt inigkt be most lest re at asioili. m time ; limit he denied must dist incify that iii alt the transaction, iii Scotland there load In en employed any spy or agent. The charge undouhti.4ll) was high treason but it was not deemed nelviseable to bring him to tiral, the admitting of him to hail oaf urged a, a mutter of coin plaint. There was a deficiency of evidence, otherwise be would have been brought to trail ; but had be not been ap preliesided by the authorities, they would have been guilty of o der. liction of their duty. The Lord Advocate added, th.tt if an action were brought—the proper course to pursue —he should he prepared to justify what had been done. Mr. hIAX W ELL said, as to the cause of time disturbance, he asserted that it was toe general belief in Scotland that spies bud been employed to urge that rising that bad taken place. The petitioner approached that house to make it more manifest what extraordinary powers were possessed by the Lord Advocate—powers that ought to be diminished. Mr. MONTEITH said, considering the state of Glasgow at the time, and the ,different reports which reached the magistrates, it was wonderful that more arrests had not taken place, on Ices warrantable grounds than justified the apprehension of this prisoner. If the petitioner had cause of complaint, the courts were open to him. Mr. HU%IE had in vain listened in the hope of learning that the apprehensions took place nu depositions on oath ; and he wished to know whether such were the fact or not ? The LORD ADVOCATE replied, according to the law of Scotland, such depositions on oath were not neeemary ; the public prosecutor proceeded on information, and acted on his own responsibility. The law allowed that coarse. Mr. HUME said, that this admission proved the de plorable state of Scotchnien. This petitioner was treated most severely ; he was shut op Ili: days, and without pen, ink, and paper, and he was confined iu a place set apart for culprits. As to going 'o law, would any man in his senses go to law with the Lord Advocated for supposing the ease to be proved, would It not be said, that it was an " error in judgment ?" (Hear, hear.) He called on the house to institute some inquiry. As to going to law against the Lord Advocate, that would be a mockery, an absurdity. The law would be amended if the house did its duly. Lord A. HAMILTON ridiculed the idea of Mr. Turner going to law against the Lord Advocate—he who would do so would be considered a madman • at least if a lawyer were asked his advice on the point, be would think the man such; and yet this was the way in which all the com plaints were answered ; such answer was ridiculous. Petition ordered to be printed. STATE Or. EUROJTE.—Mr. C. HUTCHINSON gave notice, that on Friday, before the house went into a com mittee of supply, lie should call the attention of the house to certain proceedings in Europe, considering that they involved the safety and liberty of this country. Mr. 0. BENNETT presented a petition from a boy, John Wither, confined in Ilchester gaol, complaining of various hardships, of having to wait on the prisouers, to associate wills highwaymen, Mc. Mr. Alderman WOOD said, lie had reason to believe that the sentiments were correct—for according to what had recently transpired, it was found that the prison was under defective management, the gaoler keeping stocks unknown to the magistrates, to punish boys, women,4pc. lie should like to know who constituted the commission promised to inquire into the state of Ilchester gaol. After remarks from Sir R. Wilson, the petition was ordered to lie ou the table. THE ARMY.—SUPPLY.—CoIoneI DAVIES moved an address to his Majesty, praying him, on filling up new commissions in the army, to give the preference to half pay officers, so long as any remained, whereby there would be considerable saviug to the country. After souse discussion, the house divided on this propo sition.. The numbers were—Fur it ta—Against it 45 Negatived by a majority of 31. 011 the motion that the house resolve into • committee. Mr. HUME moved as an amendment. that certain por tions of the estimates vs to allowances for salaries, renan• nerations, &c. should be referred to a select committee. The house divided on the amendment-•• For it 22--. Against it 63—Majority against the amendment 41. The house•then went into the committee, iu which were moved 81,5201. for superannuater and retired pensions for England; 8,6861. ditto for Ireland 35,0031. for Ex chequer fees, kc. Mr. HUME asked, whether there was no intention of abolishing these fees? Sir C. LONG said, they were granted by act of parlia ment. Resolutions lly agreed to.—Report on Friday. POLICE or THE METHOPOLIII.-011 the order of the day for the second reading of the Metropolis Itlagitrates* bill, Mr. BENNETT declared his objections to this bill in Ow. Instead of proving beneficial, he was convinced it would prove mischievous. He contended that nothing could render our police efficient but rendering it hide. pendent and respectable, by paying the officers liberally, and increasing its force, and by establishing a magistracy consisting of intelligent and independent individuals. He ' also thought it most important that a regulation should take place in our prison discipline. The present bill might be rendered useful, but to make it so it must undergo very mate' ial alteration. Mr. CLIV said, that the metropolis was to be divided into sixteen districts, each of which was to have five ad ditional patrole. The bill also provided, that in future sto watchman should be appointed above the age of 10. Mr. DENMAN objected to some of the clauses which gave the magistrates the pow er of committing un suspicion as reputed vagrants He wished the bill to be divided into taro, one regarding the better payment of the police, and the other deft g the power of the magistrates.— Unless this proposition was acceded to, lie must oppose the second reading of the bill. Mr. BATHURST thought the bill should go to a com mitter, when all these points could be considered. Mr. Ald. WOOD said, the pay of the police officers of the metropolis was only a guinea, whilst those in the city received :':is. which, with some perquisites, made their income at least two guineas • week. He contended that it was necessary the officers should possess the power of apprehending reputed thieves. Alter some further observations. the hill was read a second time, and committed for this day lurtun,ai. The ()flier orders were disposed of, and the house ad journed to Friday. FRIDAY, MAT 4. Air. P. MOOR G west toed a peraom from a person named O'Flanmighttn, t omplatimmg of the On '(%4liiiin of moose tom. member, that the petitioner %%oda hate beta IrompostrJ, but tor the hart fereuer of GOVCIIIITI.III. The LH rut J, th..t as the peril referred to bowl: owlet that had taken pia. e 111 rieo..te ; :sod cot' AV he eelorter n..r.• nut acciortru i ; to the older. of the hou,e to he Jascufterl risett her r, thili pctil iuu could 1101 be freer,. J. Mr. S. COOPER ro , e to xplain wll,l hr had wid ou , (For ecritiniallicif err I , g, 14W.)