The National Register. — London, England, 1821-05-21 00:00:00

• bud been made to Site bosse by ministers of the crown.— They had not been supported by soy evidence Mat bad been adduced either at York or before the Oldham Jury t the cart leads of noses, and the trampling nod., foot of maxis trate". appeared to have had nil fousidation in truth. He hoped they were not made wills a view of deluding that house. Be that fart, however, es it might, the effect had been that the most grievous inroads were made upon the constitution. By thesis acts, it new constinopen was in►. pelted moon the country I—iti 1819 that was undone that had beet, effected iu 1684.—Under all these circumstances, be maintained, that if the house had uoy regard fur character, If they thought any thing of self estiinution, or of the (Ili. lion of the world, they at least would demand thot inquiry should be instituted into the deeds of the Itith of August.-- The country could never be strifled till such inquoy was botituted ; till it took place be must cunsider the adminir tratioa us stewed with the transaction of 'bat day, on which there were tw ice -a nasty killed and wounded as there were Woof d'et, wbeu Admiral J'•rvts (now Lord Si. Vincent) beat the French. Tbeee were upwards of 690 kilted and woonded, con•isling of men, soonest, and childien ; and according to the law of God, on es hich the law of man ails &elided, the spilling of human blood must be accounted for. Hr uu•brd that the house would ere that its character re quired that inquiry should be instituted; and he therefore concluded (amidst loud cheers) that t►e house resolve itself into a committee of ioquiry into the conduct of the yeo manry and magistracy at Manchester oo August 16,1819. Mr. HO BIIOUSE seconded the motion. Mr. B. WILBRAHAM ruse to oppose the modem as ea •errssary. The hon. member entered into ea extended view of the transactions w hich took place at Manchester on the day in question, and read a number of depositions made ►y individuals to she w that the route of the town and neighbour hood was suck as justified t►e magistrates in the line of con dart they had adopted. These depositions described the fears of the devotee's's, on account of the rondo. t of She radicals, their training, exerriviag, &c. as so great, that they 'mold owl rest in their beds. The reuduct of the mob was such as fully justified the magistrates in calling iu the aid of the military, who were grossly insulted by them. Theriot. net he said, was read by a magistrate from the window—by Mr. Eeciestone shut this not being deemed sufficient, aouther magistrate, Mr. &Nester, read it in the street. Mr. BEN N ET P —Has be made an affidavit to this effect? (Cries of " Order 1") By a member —Has he sworn It /—(Oiller, order!) Mr. WIL BRA H A M roomed, and proceeded to read vari ous depositions, stating that moues and other 'similes were thrown at the soldiers i but the meeting was nut ultimately dispersed because it was riotous, but because it was decidedly an illegal assemblage. Mr. fi ulme was knocked of his horse and *early killed. He might be asked why ibis evidence was nut brought forward during She trial at York 1 the reason was that the learned judge oat rowed the question. ■nd very properly, to the consideration of the le g ality or Illegality of the meeting, and the Jury, after the fullest coos sideration, found a verdict of guilty. Lord MILTON next addressed the house. His boa. friend had spoken of the testimony of some of the wit nesses at Hoot's trial, and stated that one of them Barlow, had spokes; in his affidavit before the magistrates of the quantity of stones snd brickbat' which were on the ground. Now it was singulat that this person had never mentioned a word of this in his evidence at York. How could his account on both occasions have been so different if he had spoken the troth in either! How could such facts as were saitl to have beets sworn to before the nagis•rates by this witness have escaped the sagacity of his hoes. and learned friend (Mr. Scarlet') who had conducted the case 1 There was another witness (Dontliorpe) who had in has deposi tions said that he heard one of the persons going to the meeting declare that they 'soul!' come in such force as to overcome MI the civil and military authorities : bet the person who it was sworn had said this was Wilde, one of the accused. At the trial in Yurk the learned judge—a judge, of whom he never thought or spoke, but with love and lion (loud cheers), Irons what be knew of him both in a public and private character—had said that there was no evidence against Wild. Would there have been nu evidence if Dontliorpe had hero tam ggggg ed 1— (Hear, hear.) Would there have been none if Miller and Pikers bell there swore what the hosiourable gentleman bad now referred to as their testimony ? Hut if those per ilous had been called, their cross-examination might have gone to negative the facts which they were now cited to prove, All he cared fur was that no precedent should be established by the non-iniesterence at parliament to lead to military lastegd of civil authority being resorted to im this country. Mr. WILMOT spoke In justlficatioa of the Manchester snagistrates, and concluded by saying, that the blood that was shed ea that occasion, if it was shed by the magistnstes in the exercise ore n und di creams, was nothing more these the exercise of justice on air extended scale. (Loud cries of" Hear," (sum the opposition, stud repeated by this Materiel benches,) Mr. PENMAN should be well content to leave the qurs• Hun as d by the hon. member fur Westminster, rend by has noble trine' the member tar Yorkshire ; for pal w dhstends ink what had fallen from the other two grittleuren allo bad taken trait its the debate, he could not conceive that the house did not feel astimishmetit at the slim a preserved by his Majesty's ministers, earshot whom such grave charges hero 'hough', and had hero allowed to remain uniefuted.— The I , thenilser for Hover tool stated that it taught he po. little that in the alorin of the moment the magistrates had cuilimisted certain a. ts w hicli required apology. To that Idea he ►hould lois r had nu objection I but it Was not now a question of apology, but of praise—not II question of i I. thilgesive, but of reward, Another honinsroble gentieurau hod said that the imlividuals who had suffered full the 10th of August were to be considered as haying suffered under the sword of justice. (Hear. bear.) If such doctrines were out botned.otrty reprobated, all the magistrates who were "'Alined nod encouraged by his harangue would gu into the tumor y with that sword in their hands, and *heath it in the ►osnm of their country men. w henever a questionable meetin g was iu their uthelibourhood, and they had a military fusee lir back their inlet fei elite. (Cheers.) With regard to the Manchester massacre, be considered it to be an event obi h was more deserving of compassion than of being held up to thr courts us an example *piths of imitation. He uttered Me magistrates who acted on that occasion his compassion fur bowing been made the instruments for the dasigl.t.•r of their fellow countrymen, but withheld from them Ills raise. .--He cared little a hether the drpOslliolll which 1111. Juni. Member had read were made at the time w hen th.•y se, re said to have beet. made, or whether the riot act had hi en read to the multitude, because they had nut hero put au evideoce at the trial at York. If the government could beet moved those circuhatahces, be bad no duubt they • THE NATIONAL REGISTER would; for be could not for a enninent admit the !IMO Elude for the learned judo, who had presided at that trial, that he, to prevent a erode of time, bed not buffered those questions to be gums into. They nl i ~,, nk the character of the people of England, if tney thought that they did not Gel the injury *inch they Oro buffered, beettwe they did out loudly eripresa liscir deep beioe of ii.— The leas they said reolding it, the wore they felt.— Some people thought that enough lied heel' said upon this unfortunate affair, and that it ouch' now to be forgotten altogether. If it could have been lm gotten from the first, he should have been happy ; but it could not be forgotten —for the government tied revived the memory of it for their own purposes. They had proseeuted his honourable friend; and when various opportunities had oecurred of citing that prosecution sleep, thcb hail persevered through all its stages, even 0 gli one of the Judges had declared that the trial had taker piece iu a county where the Court had no jurisdiction. lime lion. member cow' eluded by stating, that the country, if the house steadily ✓efused all inquiry, would be conviuced that it wes play• log ilie game of those who wished to degrade sad destroy it.—(Cries of hear.) The SOLICITOR-GENERAL denied the proceedings at Manchester had taken place under time authority id` governments—they knew nothidg of them till they, were over. Mr. PHILIPS (of Manchester), after an euloginnt on the character of the Rev. Ms. Stanley, read a letter from him, relating to the events of the 16th of August, and to • tier( he had given of them. It was decidedly Mr. Stanley's opinion, that the was rants might have been exe cuted without the aid of the military : he also spoke its lois narrative most decisively as to the ill treatment Mr. Hunt had received, and to the cruelly of the military to the mob. Upon the whole view of the case, witlsunt emeriti/ score at large into it at this late hour, be thought the nio lion of the hon, bort. highly expedient. Wisest the hon. gent. resumed his seat, the cries of question became general. Sir R. WILSON moved that, this debate be adjourned till tomorrow. (No, no—question—adjourn.) The SPEAKER put the question, that the debate be adjourned till to morrow. rim CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER made a single remark, not audible in the confusion (of the house ; after which the motion for an adjournment of the debate was carried without • division. The other orders of the day were then gone throogli ; afterwards, the honse adjourned at three o'clock. WIMICISDAY, way 16. SsLiCT VilweaV.—Mr. Denison mod Sir R. Wilson both presented the selves at the same time to the Citric, holding up petitions to their bands; and at the state time Mr. H. Sumner was on his legs, on the subject of the Newington Select Vestry 11.11. The SPE A KER appealed to the house for protection.— He could only take the names of the members as they ap peared ou the paper. Mr. 11. SHUN ER continued no his legs.—("Goon.go on") He said he now applied fur the third time. Duriug their last stunts' the committee had assembled for eight days, hut they bad dune nuthiog. He row feared that the remainder of the session would not afford time fur the discussiou of the bill ; and he threfore deemed it right to meutiuu that there were instances where committees bad bee., discharged. He did nut know of any case where such a bill had been com mitted to the whole house—hat be bad Ron to suggest the propriety of the appointment of a new committee—(lle:lr, hear),—or of rommittiug the bill to the whole house. It would be recollected tow the conducting of a bill before the house was expensive; those espences had been incurred duriug eight days, when nothing had been done. His Ent motion therefore, would be that the commatee be disc busied. Mr. D.mison rose before the motion bad been put. The SPEAKER—Do you second the emotion? Mr. DENISON .—Certaiuly out. The question haying been put. Mr. D. said, that his boo. colleague was so aces',- touted to majorities, that whenever he happened to he out voted, be immediately came Ili the house with his comploints on the subject.—(Cheers and Inughter.)—The hon. unetals• r theu went into a Mowry of some ot the meetings at Newing ton, observiug, that one of them ee,thiply was rather outs). A. to the support which the boll received from the parish, that the rental amounted to 84.0001. of those opposing it; 53011. was the amount of the rental of the bili's supporter's nod that diminished amount desired to have for lire, and without cnotrol, the management of rotas DWI watch 30,0001. and the Klog's tales V 5,0001. Here then was Ilse principle of taxation without representation. As to the bill its pria• ciple ails unjust and unconstitutional ; nod lie should avail himself of every opportunity that prevented itself to op pose it. Mr. BY NG expressed the tilVnion that the committee on the bill ought to he revived. As in the proceeding iu the late cuttunittee. he wits appoinue an amendment, when the chairman immediately appottited him a teller. Mr. A Id. WOOD said, lie mused the aitiournmeat to get rid of the business for that day, but a ith DU Vies.' sit getting rid oh the committee. He submitted. that whether the mere wive, thins of the chairman *etc to be taken, without proofs and without minutest :-.11 whether the hou,a, could without any regain; to its inembeis and character. agree to censure the late committee, by appointing any select committee. Mr. M A BEItLY opposed the 'notion, There had been delay and coufwaost, hut the confuse 0000 was mainly occasioned by the hon. chairman. Instead of sittiug still and heoriug the questions undo titer members, the chairtitra ocenine a delister on all pima*. Hence a,use most of the confuiion. Mr. G. B hi% N WIT said tee bill mar a jib. n rank job; it was tote bun. ateusber's job I and he would call it matting else but a job. It was euileastiond to matte it a pat.. quest oast, to carry that by majna tams here winch was suit. of defeat above stairs. The him. member might pa. tinily succeed for the present but he hoped they should have the opportunity in flu thiamin day of telling the hon. member eiseabeie a hat was really their seine of their übligatious to him. (Hear, hear.) Sir IL N ILSON moved an adjournment. The gallery wits then cleared tor a division. The numbers were, for the adjourtimetit 74—against It 69. Load J. Rllbir.LL present d a petition from Weston Hatfield, or Cambridge, printer, pi io ii. fur the repeal ul the lan offering libel. iu newtp.iptrs, us comaitied iu ch. 87th of the 60th ut the lie King. Mr. SBA W moved fur a select committee to enquire into the propriety of tepealiug the a itulow las, so far as the same regarded Ireland. The bluiquis of LONDONDERRY spoke against the motion; .alter which it ars negatived a ithout /I division. bil•aesilltsTsta liwilaistt— The order of the day hit%ing been read tor the resuming of the adjoined di bate on Sir W. Burdett's motion, I Si • • - -.• Sir IL WILSON roe, and spoke warmly in its siapporloia. He inainiaiued that 11w Manchester rairetiug one • legal one t that nothing occurred to warrant so whitest • dimmers Sion I sod that thi-y might to weeping the modem for ~pity s of they acre desirous the p. °plc should have coulidelice is the limier. Sir W. I)E CRESPIGN Y aepporied the motion. Mr. P. GRENFELL mid, that his ;;;; ion* remained what they were whets he supported t► Oa arta, sad he thaw fore could not give support to the moittots. Mr. B ERN A L. spoke in favour of the motion, maintaining that enquiry wee due to the people. Mr.M.TWISS coasiended that nu further etiquiry was ii.A . cesary. Legal ism notation had t..kee plare &already, a rand ;tory had ilectded on the qttestion, a pony jury had delivered a verdict on it, rod here it ought to rest. Mr. HOBIIOUS F. supported the mimeo, nod contended that it appealed from all the account■ of this weifortmanto do). that the yeomanry were nut ult .cked until they had Mot assaulted the people. Time boa. washer adverted to the imsrepreseiltishons whick had gene abroad on the eathjeCt ur the ineetini of the lath of Augnat-11/ to the reindict of the people—their befog armed. Ike. riled I. the stateuseem made by a noble lord, one of the ministers, that rota siagle life had been but fa the course of that safor.osate day, whilst he held a catalogue of killed and wounded in his hand Cline several pages. He also areaway coadeureed songsters for thew letter of thank% to the yevaiatery, awl commended that enipiry ought and must be greeted, or the people woadd cut be sat haled. Tile Marquis of LONDONDERRY catered at great length into a justifiJation of the expluits of the pith of Anginal. and redacted on the isaulives which proingue dikes peseta motion t he stated that he did net feel hinhielf pledged to the truth of the statement he had made its the brume on a former occasion—he rebored be could not think of the events of that day without his heart bloodies —his lordship sat devils amidst the boi.teruim cheeriogi of the miaisteritilists. Mr. SCARLETT said he had no doubt that the noble lord's speech wu well calculated for its purpose (cheers), load be bad no doubt het it would have its isapressiew.— , It was a speech much more of the nature of magic than of reason. (Loud cheers.) If it had not reason u it, it had something . (Cheers.) And Isis lordship seem. ed to be the greatest theinderer in the bourse.—(Lewd end repealed cheers.) If the noble lord tomb' wot think of the transaction without feeling his heart bleeding. could he not conceive any motive for this Egotism lest what was mean. base, and inconsistent with hamar*, t—(Hear.).... Might he (Mr. Seinen) Dot ask why those who brought it faraard might not be supposed to feel their heart bleed too, at the injuries and salferinp of that day. and feel the tenderest humanity as their motive?—(Cheers.) Ha thought that the circumstances which made the heart bleed—an immense assemblage, who had committed no outrage, dispersed is a manner so cruel, trampled en, wounded and some destroyed—might be brought before • British House of Conuaous from a feeling concern foe one fellow subjects, mad without any diakonale* to ezeite tumult.—(Load and repeated cheers.) The marble lord's manner indicated the triumph he anticipated; his evade deuce bed ariseu from his knowledge of the resell. TIM learned gentleman here took a review of the horrid bravo actions of Peterloo, and concluded by saying, that ho should indeed Rauh ill of the people of England, he should indeed consider them unworthy of the liberty which they enjoyed, if • short year sad a half maid make diem foes get those wrongs which, according to the hook lord, made the heart of those who lad had only read Weis bleed to the inmost eore.---(Load alumnae.) The A'ITORN EY GENEBAL reprobated the nation of • question which had subsided. and contended that the imminent dangers of the country at that imseasead, justified the vielences at Manchester. Sir F. BURDh IV was then generally called epee to re ply. He began by observing upon the pertinacious negoiewity with which the other side hail coassiired to abet their eyes to the real question at Woe. The speech of the welts bird had been poising more nor less thus an &cessation of toe people of England; yit the point he had endeavoured to establish was, that the ponies in this proceeding were bused at Mianclientr, and the military that had ~Ilea epos them. • to truth, however, the qwestiou was between the people of England, and the ministry or governments it was the pee. pie of England who demanded enquiry, and the government who resisted it. The real trams* to which the welds fold had alluded was the 1111111111/1111an t vowed w isle of the wedllll to reform the parliament; and it was because the siterefallie at Massehester and others all over the canary at that time s had this great and laudable object au view, that it had excited the terror* of some and the atiiinoaity and handily of oilienx Ministers were deeply implicated in this methappy tresselle lion as yet u. wing but garbled 'meowing had bee* nithed by them; ~std if it were true, as the King had ciously told the cameo, of Lmtdon, that they could nothing of what had privileged, pawed between his .ormoolle and the magistrates, it au. beemaue all fall mid eatiductory loforniattou bi 1‘ reilPA . ll, instim thins given to the ma,endrieles, and upon ant, h they acted, were cautiously Hear, hear.) —Wile re.ard to the lateness of period at which she motion woes brought forward, be pee. hap' might he to blame, but still titan enough had only elem. sod t s strip the subject of all the false caluoring that wall attempted to he ?tyro to it—of all the iliVeliii./lb stud tabs la eat awls with a hick truth hail hren smothered, and of all the grow eitaggeratione of the noble load aim litilerS. and the which that noble tort had mat thought it neeeooary to apes The hon. host. aro' on to contend that 11.1 e verdict at York did mot and could not deter tttttt e the polio sit law as to 'hi legality of tale iiaretim; I the sal jites of a Inch Wall to 'ohm 11114.1 hatred 1111. i runt. mph toe 40Yerillarlii w by law eetatilielied. For that Wiener Mr. Hunt had been sentenced Ina puntshateut more Itlllll commensurate to ter cluer4ek if they had every one of thefts been proved. 'foe Aintree, General, as Olen uotielly did when under the inamoce of vainest paiuton, had recommended him (44 F. Bunsen) la be cool i he did oat ksiow that he Lad betrayed Huy great degree of twat dosing the delhate I but if lie had dune en, be should have thought it ~ml ese weatile an a pc Isom of 11.44 kind, VII re the very Islverliee of the count... is ere at stake. Afire cooing some ridicule upon the Atahavits produces by liar Imiamciai.hle smasher test paver, the hotonsiable leasesewt proceeded to make ill reins. k or two out a hot bad fallen Gum another honourable miontier (Mr. V 1 ilissoi,) a be, he suid Wile fair eatetadeal justice but testritie.i euqu O. The mode lord (LondimArroy ) hod used one e%pretioini toot war swoon little remarkable I he had said that hr email rely upon the prem..); toiotruclion of the Mouse of 11111 l 114.n14 Oka lie was conciara al t h at the people were in ou way hostile In their in•lttutioto.; hut teeny iVa'S (Walled to the constitution. and to all thobe rights whirls the ems. (Per ce rtif. natio., see pace IhS.