Star. — London, England, 1803-06-28 00:00:00

i~. Lcs rotated by any advantage tO arife from taking' in a certain dais of men, whole numbers were fmall in proportion to perf ns wl.ofe ages were between 18 and 45 years. He was fill more confirmed in this] argument, when he confidered, that the defence of the country was not to be confined to this meafure , and that the other plans which would be adopted to. l wards our defence, mig' t include perfons above the! age of 4c, who mi , ;ht now be refereed for another lervice. He 'would afk, therefore, if it was not bet., ter to adhere to the original lifis, and particularly fo when expedition' was fo neceftary. Sir ROBERT BUXTON laid, that having aeled in the charaEler of a Deputy Lieutenant, he could affitre the Houfe, that the making out of new lilts was attended with great difficulty and delay ; and fooner than the relent meafure thould meet with any delay, he would rather fee the original lifi (land as it was. The SECRETARY at \V thought a lift of perfons from 45 to go might he obtain'ed in a fhort time. Mr. G. VANSITTART faid, that before the lifts could be returned, the names mutt be (luck up at the church doors for a week. Mr. PITT again laid, lie thou,y,ht it ,much better in the prefent meafure to at upon the old Ibis. The CrIANCFLLOR of the Cxcni CL_UFR thought the neceflity and importance of difpatch was lb urgent, that the Houle ought to forego all the advantage which might be derived from an extention of perfons' liable to terve, on account of the delay which any filch alteration would occafion. He %/tithed the oi ginal lifts might be adhered to, on account of the simplicity of the-plan, and the facility of its execu tion. Unlefs the Houfe took the hits as they now flood, the meafure would be entangled in endlcfs dif ficulty and perplexity. But the Committee mutt per ceive Oleic was no accatioa for this extention in the prefent meafure ; for no greater number of men was prorated to be railed, than had been railed during the laft war, from lids •saflly fimilar to thofe now made out. Mr. SHERIDAN thought the Colleflors. of Taxes might give in the names of all thole who paid Taxes above a certain amount, in order that they might be included in the ballot for perfons who weft to procure tubllitutes. . . Mr. ERSKINE thought that the prefent meafure ought to he carried into effefl as fpeedily as Offline, and th zt nothing fhould be done to retard it. He seabed, therefore, the original principle might be abided by. There mei be another force as well at this, becaufe the Country mug be defended: and he had no doubt but it would be able to defend itfelf. The original elaufe in die Bill was then fuffered to remain as it flood. vi , .. the perfons liable to be drawn are thole from t 8 to 45 years, without including thole of a mare advanced age who Would pads property to a certain amonnt. -. Mr. LARTV/RIGHT repaid a Claufe to .exempt ' . :stain deli I iptions of licenfe el Preachers. The CH a we EL LOR of the EICH at: L uta obferved, that seas extremely neceffary to guard again(' thefrauds many !Actions who availed themtelves of the elm r 'ter of Preachers, in order that they fhould not be • ',able to be drawn in the:Militia. He recollefted the ..: eircun•liance of a certain Noble Perfen, who now prefided in one of the Courts of Law, having been, while Attorney General, drawn for the Militia. He mentioned this incurrence to a friend, who Paid to . him.-4. Go :aid pay a fhilling for a licence to preach, and then you will be exempted." The SkCISTARY At WAR (aid, the provifion pro • ' poled by ~a Hon. Member, was already contained in the Bill. But he would move, that the whole of the Claufe relative to exempting Preachers; fhould nand over until the.report of the Bill fhould be brought up. Mr. WILLIAM SMITH took OCCAIIOII to obferve, that the Houle ought not to narrow the principle of to leration too much, and- that it was a fubjeft which ought not to be touched in a hafly manner. Mr. FULLIR th‘ ught the Yeomanry Cavalry, who had afforded a great deal of fervice to Government eluting lad war, both by their own fervices, and the furnilhing of buries, fhould have a further time al lowed them to offer their fervices, and be exempted from the prefent ballot. The SLCRIET•ItY at WAR fald,.that in regard to them, n.• better rule could be adopted than that pur fued in the year 1796. by which it was left in the power of hi. Majeily to accept of fuck Corps as he might think proper. • • The C Ha\ ,FLLOR of the EXCHSCIER raid, he en. Tertaintd•no &oh' with regard to the propriety of accepting o: the he vices nt many refpeflable Corps of Voluntee• s ; chat there were no lefs than 26,000 men in Setaland. vli le fervices were already accept• ed of, and that it was only thntight expedient to de lay accepting of more ;n the prefent conjunflure, as Government were tins% iilinp to take out of the popu lation of the Country their: men en whom the chance might fall in the prefent ballot. Sir Jam Ks Puy!.. sr s y °islet ved,that in cafe of allticl invation, he fhould thitik it rag expedient to provide that the fervices of the V. lunteers is general ought to be extended to the Kitrclom at large. Sir JAMES ST. CLAI; ERSKINE thought that fume particular line ought to be drawn as to Volunteer Corps, fo as to pr•event people from entering into them for the mere.potrole of avoiding the ballot. Mr. STVRGIS WAS (4' tlptnikir, , that the Cervices of the Volunteer Cot es as they now Itivoki, were very inefficient to the exigencies of the Indent times ; and that they ought to be gt raly extended, Co as to make them garrifon any place in the kingdom which ne• c effity might terieire. Many pet Inns, he knew, bad entered into theie Coigs for tl'e it.urpole If exempting themfelvcs. He fugy-illed the propriety of altering the date lions th- cad 'inllant to the 6111. Sir WILL I 1 04 Or ARV lard, that is lath war the Ver. lunteere were even be:ore.band with Government, in regard to e %rending. thzir fervices of their own accord. General T. Ilth 1 nls laid that lie was thoroughly convel•eed, that ;here was no corps of Volunteers in the kingdom who would not Frill he inclined to offer their fers ice'- t.; any part of the kingdom. Cnlortel R. CIL At% I Olt. prop .fed, that, beides a I elattie ir. the P•il, ex:en wig tile Cervices of this re ferred corps to A.;: sat Britain and L eland, and the iii.,,d. of Guerwcy and Jerky, there Mould be a power to r'° them into re.,,tilar regiments. He ex - i pi srietlgiCa; no p ice at the manner in which the teal firoat.cm r.f the count, y ban hitherto been reprefen • - I. Tae dangercus lunation of the co.rntry had not, I 0 ' • • .. ; ,colo n , been evreiled in itillieiently lirong :. • .. l'az-e woo i. t.... 1 a vets great danger of in s • , . ...any man had .ecti, as trilaad had occalion to do, the natalser of boa's and veffils prepared on the coatis of France and Holland, he could have nn tea: fan to doubt of the probability of an itivalion being attempted. The Rate of theft: boats and veffels too was inch, that he really believed none better could be huiit for the purpofe. The Mermen upon the coati of Holland, men who were now at the difpnfal of the First Condi], knew the way to the coatis of this country as well as our own pilots. He was con. vinced that the French had the means of fending one hundred thoufand men to attempt the invafion of this Country. Seventy thoufand men, in his opinion, were a ftifficient number to engage even an hundred thoufand invaders, were the campaign of fuch a na ture as that the ultitnate fate of the country depend ed upon the iifire of it. The reafon of this was the utter impoflibility of bringing a greater number of men under proper command in this country. He wilhed people would more deliberately reflecd upon the peculiar dangers to which we were expofed.— " W 4: have a capital," laid he, " flawed within 7o miles of the coal}, the polfeffian of which is not only decilive of the fate of the war, but alfa he might even venture to fay, decifive of the fate of the na tion ; (A ery of no! as!) I mull at lead be allowed to maintain, the fituation of the country would be really delperate in filch a cafe." All this, he thutight, fhewed the abfalute neceflity of having a large force confiding of regulars ; for men mull be acentlomed to war, before they can be furpofed to be efficient in oppofing an invading foe. Theprincipal difficulty had already been got over, warn we had procured a let of meir.placed under the Officers of the Crown, as thole about to be raiild were to be ; and he would ark any man, what difference there really was, whether these men were put into the regular army, or continued in the Army of Refetve, provided they were not obliged to go farther than Great Britain and Ireland, or the iflands of Guernfey and Jerfey ? The SECRETARY AT WAR was not furprifed that the Hon. Gentleman, who was a very dittingnithed Officer, was not acquainted with the forms of the Houfe, or with all the bearings of the different parts of the bill on each other. The plan proposed was, that his Majefty fhould hive power to dire: fuels a number of the men as he thould think fit to be enrolled in any regiments of the line that may be deficient in their complements, but that the fer• vice of fuch men was to be limited to Great Bri tain, Ireland, and the ill Inds of Guernfey and Jet fey, except fuch as fhould voluntarily engage for general fervice. As all the force to he railed could not be abfOrbed in the regular regiments, other corps fhould ex aecifitate rei be tormed, but all fhould, from time to time, have the power of volunteeriag for more ex tended fervice. He hoped the explanation he had now given, would fatisfy Gentlemen fully as to the nature of the plan. Mr. NINA uGH Tom rote to make a few obfervat ions upon what had been thrown out by an Hon. Member oppofite (Colonel Crawford) with refpell to the cap. ture of London. He would alit that Hon. Member, whether, if the enemy did take London, they would alfo take the flee' and the fpirit of the country ? (A cry of bear, boar.) There were men in Ireland, there were men in Scotland, and in Englarid, that would difpute every inch of ground with an invading foe, and he was confident that before the country could be fubdttedythete men fhould be driven into the lea (bear, hear). He had heard much of the media tion of RufGa, of Aufiria, and PrufGa, but he hoped no peace thould be made until our prefuraptuous ene my fhGuld try the experiment of invading this country, and be convinced, by the refult, of the impoflibility of making any ferious imprefflon upon the United Kingdom, by an attempt to invade it (bear, bear!) —lf peace Mould be made before, the enemy would keep the threat of invafion over opr heads in terrorm, and continue, perhaps, to hold the language of dihfa tion, fhould we not be difpofed to funender our inde pendence (bear, bear!) But the nation wo not to be intimidated ; the people were difpofed, and ready to give the enemy fuch a reception as fhottld convince them for ever of the inutility of every effort to fob die or cnflave them ; and, if the Chief Confislfhould fend his troops here, he was convinced that Britons would be prepared to falute them, as the gladiators faluted the Roman people.—Meritseri tr falutaxi.— (Hear, bear!) Mr. Wraquare laid, he could not approve of the anfwer v Inch had jull been made to the obfervations of the Hon. Member (Col. Crawford) He fhould be glad to know the grounds upon which fech a cla mour had been always railed again', thofe who ex preffed their fentiments in Rrong terms concerning the real fituation of the country? Did the pidure he had drawn reprefent an impossibility? If there really was a prffioility, it ought to be guarded againft.— Ile, for one, was entitled now, as upon a former oc. cation, to give his opinion upon it. He had already faid, there was a poffibility of an invafion being at tempted; bat he was not inclined to think that even the taking of the metropolis would decide the fate of the country. He felt fatisfaElion at bearing the fen timents of the Hon. Colonel, and was glad to have fuels an authority. He did not know where we could recur to a higher—a perfon who had ken fit much fervice, and that toe upon a large fcale, *as well qualified to imprefs upon our minds a jolt fenfe of our danger ; there feemed to have been a total want of that fenfe of danger. He did not find loch a num ber of addrefres as might have been expelled at this erifis. The people renew their dangers, perhaps, too well already, and fome might attribute their filence to that apathy or fort of defpair, which arofe from a want of infficient confidence in them edges. He was himfelf inclined to attribute it to naive and vigorous preparation to oppofe our f-e,. The CHANCELLOR of the EICHEOSER complained of fome expreffions which had been made tdc of by the Right lion. Gentleman who had jug fat down. He had dune more than juflice to himfelf, and he had done an injullice to an Honourable Gentleman whole fpeech breathed-nothing but loyalty and infor mation, becoming the circumstances in which we were placed. The fpeech of the Right Hon. Gen tleman on a former night, to which he had alluded, whatever might be his feelings (and of his loyalty and patrintirm there could he nn doubt in the mind, of any per inn who knew the Right Hon. Gentleman), yet the ketch cf . the Right Hon. Gentleman on that occafion undoubtedly contained the language Gf de- I t h ink f i sondency. At the preent moment., hha e could not it becoming in any f Memhe.. Gf tt I loole to make rife of language which might feri.e to encou lrage tle ambitious mini! of Bonaparte, alitady too 4.-Ir‘rm. ~~ much elevated. The cetufe ofthe Right Ilonoterab!: Gentleman's opinions .was obvi. es. Thole he was certain did not arife from any feeling f may or defp:!ntlency ::: to the is.,svc7s of the c, not. y. and he was flrry to find loch exp, lions corning from 1 . 1101 authorities. Such fentiments,he was forty to fay, afore from a •ant of riatildence in the per ions at prefent compofing his Majcfty's Government. The Right Hon. Gentleman, however, fhould recol left the fituation the country was in when he:was in office, he fhould compare it with the prefent, and le. if the country was at any time of the late war in filch a powerful inflation tOr nffenfi ve or for derenfive Operations as we are at prefent. We had been no y five weeks at war, and we had 9::,,re00 militia already balloted for, and we were concerting the means for railing 50,0c0 more with the utmori potiit,ic cTedi tion ; we had alto a number of battalions of the line exceeding our eflablilliment at any period of the late war. He knew it ought to be 4h, and our military eftablifhment was likely to be greater. lie concurred in the opinion which had already been given, that the prefent plan was only the nucleus of a flronger ani more extentive plan, which undoubtedly would be agreed upon if the war continued for any confider able duration. He would ail() with to acquaint the Right I-lon:Gentleman and the Il...11;!, that the fortis we had already raiied were in fuch a (late of dilci plinc, and that filch meafures had been concerted as would enable Government to have them at the plac, of their declination in a week's time, and that they would then be c am pletel y capable of meeting the enemy in any part of the United Kingdom. Gentlemen had fpoken of the means which the enemy pofTeifed of em• barking a prodigious force from the ports of Hol land, and other neighbouring parts of their territory. The danger of the metropolis had been alfo mention ed. Gentlemen fhould alto take inti their confider ation, the very dillant chance that, notwithllanding the great number of fmall craft they hod in their poi:- , feffion, they would ever venture a great body of men to be conveyed in that defencelefs Rate, from the filcher of their own harbours, in the face of the powerful navy which we had at our command. They fhould alfo take into their confideration the very great probabiiity there was, that, if they had the hardihood to put to lea under fuch circumltances, they fhould never be able to reach our coatis, or re turn to their own. They fhould alto take into their confideration, that, even fuppoling they had made good their landing, the enemy would then have to contend with a molt powerful military force, and alto with the Ready firmnefs—the cool and determined bravery, and the well known patriotifm of Englilh men—which would be colleCting obiacics in the way of their deigns, and impeding their progrefa every inch of the way from the lea there ; lo that even in that cafe there was very little probability that they would ever be able to reach London. The Right Honourable Gentleman oppofite him might miftake it for apathy, when we relied with confidence on the firength and fpirit of the country ; with fuch a corn manding naval force as we poffeffed, we might with confidence defy the world ; and when we contem plated the military force which Government would now have at their difpofal, and the fpirit of Engliffi men, when rouzed to a defence of their birth right, he thought it was not too much to fay, that we m i ght reckon with the utmoft confidence on their efficiency to repel an army, however numerous, who might by any unaccountable chance have efcaped the vigilance of our navy. He did rely moll confidently on what the fpirit of Engifhmen would achieve ; but yet he thould think himfelf highly criminal if he had ne gleded an atom of what was neceffary to be brought into ;talon at the prefent moment :—he (tumid hold himfelf highly criminal if he had left a Tingle iota our means of defence untouched. But he had thought it neceffary to make a few Obfervations that might correct the error of the Right Hen. Gentleman in (gaveling that his fpeech on a former oecainn te fembkd that of the Honourable Member, which had been received with fuch an enthufiallie feeling by the Houfe ;--and alto that he might rescue the Honk from the imputation of having changed their fenti ments or of having received twofpeeches of a fimilar import with fetch oppofite demonftratinns of the im preffior. which thefe speeches had made on the feel ings of the Houfe. He had thought it neeeffiry alto to prevent the tendency which fuch a fpeech from fuch authority might have to cripple the operations of Government. Geueral TAR h stoat declared that he was confident that both this country and the neighbouring Wand would fight until they were driven into the lea, as had been very properly, as well as emphatically ex. prefled by an Honourable Gentleman oppofite to him, rather than fubmit to any invader. He had on the zeth of February lad, faggelled the propriety of ex amining into the flue of the army, thinking it belt to be prepared for a Rate of war in every time of -peace. But he cnnfeffed that he was ignorant of the machinations of the enemy, he had not heard of their expeditions to Lonifiana, doe. or if he had pot feffed the means of information which &Unifiers had, by virtue of their official fituation, he fhould perhaps have been more cautious, as he was always of opi nion that it was more neceffary to be guarded again( a fecret than againft an avowed enemy. It did not require any military talent to underfiand what was notorious throughout the Country, that is, that the recruiting for the army did not go on well fall win ter; it was alfo certain, from the returns made by the War-office, that we had now a more effective re gular ft-nee than we had at any period of the late war. We were about five weeks at war, and we were now railing our third army. Ile did not think that fuch exertions of Islinillers could be fuppoied, in the lead degree, to favour of apathy. As to the confi deration of effenfive operatinhi, that required a great number of men; and in his opinion it mull ftrike every reafonable man, that it was more urgent to think of defenfive plans fir(, particularly when we hear open and avowed threats of invalion h e ld out in the melt unqualified terms by the enemy. Colonel CIA U FORD plaferved, that fpeaking of it in the mildeß manner, the peffeffion of London being obtained by an enemy, mull be confidered as a dit aitrous event, or even the enemy being in pail:Gen of the road of Eller and Kent ; he therefore thought that no Member fhould be cent - tired for calling the attention of the Houle to an objeet which In immedi ately concerned their welfare. He would fay again, as he had laid before, that he thought it neceffary that we should have an army of veterans to oppofe them and that it Inuit be disczcad ca: dwwad - 71 PP. ~,. +rte Or. thlt ;art th,nri I• 1: ma! p., 4 ! .rny ' Referee liAle to serve in in the Iti.tr.th r Jer'ey and e:;l'..q.-fy, Mr. Si-i 1:1;:.',N Cd.A;II:J, : 1 .12 f , " tn hr raifed by thi, 4;1, militia, he thot:vjq the 1..?‘ ire i!:, nearly th. fame, ar.d there::',ire lie ( 4 ::1 no: fee ehe Jerky :11 Guetnfey fiould The SECrItTARY at Win c!i.: l , it Cottiinly Ar,:S not much confertenc , ! to inchtde Co, m, Nur eoeli ttlan,L, being part of the dornal—, cf the c•-•untry, ii had bet, thought as we'd to cxt the r: rake to them. On the elatue fettli-T the varied f- r •H , vice, • I" ( "CI vcd, he underfloo: were to ferve for fi:c year, or doling the war, and he that the t.:rmi of the fervice (held bathe tome. IT:. it llrek }els. that the sv.;r• uo.uld not e of longer duration than four years, but he was fti: . e tit it the ,n,ly was to fin:llea it Was to p7e; - are lot cattya7, it on with vigour. He thought thtreforr, t' at mi g ht be attended wi,lt fo--mt inenavenience. it' a greater part of the army wet e to he d;latuhed during the war ; one month ton after the I atifir tt inn of peace was tno lhort a ruiod to allow the.Go c-nment time to adopt mcahoe, f-r repl ochre • the a: - nly. He hoped, that I,v a vh ! ornos and fueeefsfol war we flontld at lark an; c at a pcl:cat/lore pertna• n •nt than thelafl, but ffiil l:e thougot that :my prate woull demand a nearer degree of precau tion ar.d of military force, than had been '.ound re quilite at any former period. It would be in peace th it our military fyilem would be adopted, and then there se uld be time to fettle it upon filch a footing as to enable us in cafe of emergency, to rail forth a force applicable to any emer7encv. That fyftem ought to be formed on the ptinciiie of fecuting 3 body of fopplementaty recruits in the fpeediell man ner whenever they fhould be wanted. In order. however, that this might be done, Government Mould nat he fuddenly left without an army, and thetefore he thought that the period of fervice fhnuld be five years or during the war, and fix months after the ratilcatinn of peace. The SICRETARy at WAR admitted the junice of Mr. Pitt's remarks. He law no objeainn to the fetal of fervice for fubilitutes being five years. A. to thote who (honld ferve in ptrfon, we underltood hint to far that a dillinflinn ought to be made. After fume farther cnnver ration, it was fixed • that the period of fervice for fubtlitutes fhould be five years or during the war, and fix months after the ra tification of peace. Several other amendments were Shade. The Clanfe for fending deferiers from the Army of Referee into the line was entirely omitted, the Seere4 tary at War dating that it war thonght better to leave Inch perfons to be pitniffied according to the Mutiny Att.—Several ameniments were adopted conforms.: bly to tl-e dcfcription of the Secretary at War in his opening Speech. • - The SECRETARY at WAR rErpored a CLIOrt, at the fuggeflims, he faid, of tome Weft Country Gentlemen, that if any parifh apprentice, of the age of 113,flsould confect to have his name inserted in the roll, en be balloted for in place of his mailer, filch a fubilitutioti ffionld be accepted and the mailer's name oared ; and that if Each apprentice ihould not afterwards be has ' toted, he (hoard be at liberty to entift as a ftibitittite or into the line, if he chore, upon paying i hilf hii bounty to his mailer. Mr. KINNAIRD strongly difapprovectof thisttlaufe4 as calculated to extend moll uneonflitetionaltri4 power of mailers over their apprentices.'l Mr. PITT did not fee any reafon that !naffed (tumid himfelf be exempted, becaufe 'his apprentlcti "Dull think proper to volunteer MI fetvices, The CHANCELLOR of the Exemmyea•thonght did claufe altogether objeaionable, as it.tecialdhold tint a temptation to mailers to ufe very improper Mean* to induce their epprentices to (land forward in tilitir place. The claufe eras rejefled. The SECRETARY at WAR prepnfed that every , pert fon who &mild not ferve or provide a fubliitnte,l ihould pay a fine of aol. but if fubjeft to the payment of tot. to the ailiffed taxes fhould be liable•to a fur. ther fine of 51. additional for every additional tot. oE I afTelfed taxes which {itch perfon may pay, and In up to tool. which (tumid be the highest penalty. I The fcale of penalties was oppofed, on the gronna that it would tend to raife the bounties fo high AS to render it extremely difficult to procure Inbiliitites, and alto throw material obllacles in the way of re:. cruiting for the regular army. The whole of the:claufe was therefore left one, ex. cepting that part which fixes the penalty at sot. which (lands as the fine for all perfons declining ,to ferve or to procure a fubfiitute. Clanfes were adopted, that the pal fhould exempt the perfon Prot ly for one year; alto that if any perd earned, or any part of the bounty . fithifitute, and should notwiltflandhtg forward, it (hell be competent to twr tenants or Magiarates to idne warrai peifou brought before them, and ifl cline to face, and is ulable to tett', advanced, he may be committed to without bail or mainprite. Upon the feveral ameedments a t , fultory converfation took place. Uri, which empowers his Majeil y to auth, manding Officer of any regiment in ReferVe to difcharge fuch men of his chnfe to volunteer for the regular arm Mr. SWIRIDAN Ilmngly recommer meal - urea fhonld be taken that the enl men in the regular army Ihould be voluntary aR, and not offuch a dcfcrii ithnent norntheTnilitiA in the ePnri The Honfe refomed, the repnrs or. agreed to. The Bill, as arrend:d, w•a printed, And to be &Adler conlidered next. ADMIRALTY Cr`l.7Rlll. The CHavcrumx of the Exctgarty of hi% ihenntion to m..ve to morrow t} the Journals for the prodildiNs of I' certain proceedings of the Admirilt the fidijna of mazes and Appeals in fhould dircharged. Captain COC .1 RAl4l.llpou whore mot' day this Order ha d been made, wa• expl.iin his re.tf , sns for movitts: it, svh, SPlAKElcile,libc Hr , n. NLytaber but ar. no queilion gNcll . nufe. Oa the frop.fitioa of 14AT/ix', '"- - payment of a fine im the ballot c.n. (on Noold accep9 for becoming at .. ng refute toTome' wo Deputy Lieu ants to hare ripe he (hall (till d irn the Money r the common jai great deal of &el Tpon reading that th,•rize the Corn. in the Artist o iis corps as may arm tended that fome olidment of fur a fair. 6ofta Cription as the en. •fe of the Nil war. • WAS received and was ordered to be on Wednelday • lyre give twice that an Order e,tb Papers reipetting lty Coots, " 1 " . t ,n the year a-is*. otir•n on A former a• proceeding rot 'het. Tliber to orctsr,A4 - • rum' all