The National Register. — London, England, 1822-06-30 00:00:00

E~ ( Imperial Parlsausea owl:awed pugs pays 203.) on the contrary, it his '<•urued friend had lent hie aid to this sirvispiper, it bad 'Aro dune with a view to put down sedition and blasphemy. Sir JUR ES MACINTOSH said, the learned gentleman was before the !loose as a public officer, the abett , r of a series of calumnious libels, contributing weekly to tie expenses, and circul....ag them aver the kiegilnati by his influence and recom mendations. 1 t wan nothing to them w list court or jury might - decide respecting the point of law. That was entirely dieerso intariles. Here, in Parliament, they acted, out as a court of law, but enquired only whether there was sufficient ground fur enquiry. They were to enquire whether the noble Lord set an example in a high degree detrimental to the public peace, whether he encouraged political attacks without decorum, ith out delicacy, without regard to feeling or character. If there was sufficient ground to enquire whether he set an example of barbarizing political warfare, and of giving rise to duels and the shedding of blood. The only question before the Illonse was, whether there was prima fads. evidence of gross miscon ida.l on the pail of the learned Lord as a public officer. It wan Its an oflicor of high political authority that his misconduct called fur the inquiry of that House. Constables . they would leave to the ordinary administration of the law ; but the Lord Advocate of Scotland was intrusted with powers which that House could guard or check. The question which they were called upon to decide was, whether ►he House would frown down an infamous system of calumny, or give it their sanction a-d perpetuate its evils. (Hear,) Tbc Marquis of LONDONDERRY began by stating the there heads under which he would consider the subject. First, the connexion of his lion. and learned friend with the press— that wan, with the Clydesdale !animal null the Beacon ; 2d, the oppressive transac III which Bortlawick wan concerned ; and 3d, the proposition to call two persons before the com mittee, and to make certain inquiries of them. At what time was such a proeepding proposed f At this period of the sea sio,n, at a time when be could put it whether such an inquiry could be gene into with a view to substantial justice' •This was proposed, too, on the eve of a legal prosecutiou, in which his Nan. and learnt I friend would he overhauled on the pro prietorship. It was said that inquiry was all dial was pro posed, but Parliament always sanctioned the principle that it was no small infliceon to be sent to a committee of inquiry above stairs. He thought it would have been more discreet in the learned lord to have kept himself distinct from those trans actions, and not to have raised any question with regard to his conduct. (Hear, bear.) Rut in the whole of his conduct nothing could be found to touch his character as a man and a lawyer. The noble marquis concluded by declaring, that if lie were not tbeVriend but the politkalopponentof the learned lord, Ire would lay his band upon his heart and say, that he could not vote for the motion. (Cheers from the ministerial, returned from the apposition benches.) Mr. A BERCHOMBY briefly replied. The House then divided, when there appeared— For the motion 03 j Against it 120 Majority 23. Adjourned at a quarter before two o'clock. WEDNLSDAY, JUNF I i. Mr. CUR vv'EN presented a petition frOm Col. Wood, com plaining of injuries sustained by him in having been deprived of his commission, and dismissed the service without trial. Petition ordered to be printed. Mr. RN NG prsetited the report on the subject of the High gate chapel. Alderman WOOD said he should oppose the bill in every Mr. ABERCROMBY observed that this concerned charity property, and that there were proceedings in Chancery respect ing it ; therefore it was indiscreet in the trustees to prefer the bill while those proceedings were in Chancery. Sir. J. MACINTOSH said, if the bill were pressed forward, there ought to be provisions introduced, that it should not pre judice any decision of the Ctmrt of Chancery. On the ipsestion that the report be agreed to, and a bill or dered accordingly, Mr. Alderman WOOD said be should oppose the motion io this its first stage. The gallery was cleared for a division. The numbers were, —ayes 57—Noes PJ—Majority 2b. Mr. LITTLETON presented a petition from Mr. Morris, of Boston, Chester, Kissing for the repeal of the Salt Tax alto gether.—Ordered to be printed. Fun ic l'itr , s, ScorLAND.—Mr. ABERCROMBY gave notice, that to morrow he should loose for copies of all proceed ings adopted by Alexander against Bortliwick, and by the Lord Advocate it.tainst the same individual. 3lr. 111:3IE moved for details of the charges for the yeo manry corps of Bedfordshire, Middlesex, &c. for Is2l. The Marquis of C11.4.ND05 defended his corps from the charge of extravagant expence. Mr. HUME made no particular eh ole, yet he did not see slay the Bucks corps should have the exclusive comfort of at tending the coronation at the public expence. For some corps there were charges of 5 and 10,0001. ; fur others there was no charges at all. The Marquis of CIIANDOS trusted that no insinuations would be thrown out against the Bucks Yeomanry ; on the oc casion of the coronation, they received the thanks of the Duke of York. Mr. C. BENNET said, the expenses were for suppression of riots, &c. where there bad been no riots. As to the super loyalty of the Bucks Yeomanry, be should have been satisfied much better had the loyalty been displayed ar their own cost. Mr. MOXCK said there ought to be no expense (or the yeo manry ; thr y ought to be in fact what they were in name. Mr. lIIM It Withdrew his motion for the present. Tat. CitaNerl.t.uft.—Mr. M. A. TAYLOR brought forward his motion on the subject of the Lord Chancellor's Powers, and of the Appellant Jurisdiction of the former plopusitiuti was only negatived by four votes; and the noble marquis then wished the subject to be postponed till the subsequent session. The expences prevented the powers Iron, being useful. After having dwelt on the defects of the exist ing system, and detailed the failures of the plan to relieve the Court by mean. of the 1 ice-Chancellor, lie concluded with mos ing, that the House resolve into a committee on the Vice- Chancellor's Act, with the view of revising the same. Tilt ATTORN EY-GENERAL opposed the motion, contend ing th it the plan had not so completely failed. The S ice- Chancell. is Court had been most useful. Mr. TWISS Mut (wised the bill. Mr. M. A. TAYLOR replitid.—After which the Hone di vided.—For the mWitto 51—Against it 11M--Majority the motion 57. Mr. Clt ELI LV then rose to bring forward his motion on th.• subject of iniuisterial pensions, as bellied by the bill pass ed iu the latter part of his late Majesty's reign. The hon. member contended that this bill was a gross waste of public money, a job by which minister. had taken 42,9001. a year to rfA Ali themselves. lie then proceeded to comment on the apt bid its proci.ins, by which niini.b.r. Lad bleu pJwkr E NATIONAL REGISTER of rewarding themselves into their own handy, and deprived the Crown of that prerogative whieb the Crown had heretofore enjoyed. The provisions in this bill were also of a moat ex travagant, kind for by it the Secretary of State, who had been two years in office, wits to have 3,11001. a year, whilst • Judge must be Chief Justice fifteen years before he was entitled to 2,00001. a year. The hon. member concluded by moving reso lutions expressive of these sentiments, and duclarieg that this act ought to be repealed. Mr. BANKES moved as an amendment that the other orders of the day be read. Mr. G. BEN N ET did not believe that the House of Commons, even constituted as it was, would here voted a pension 43,0001, to Lord Sidinouth. It was painful to allude to particular indi viduals, but Le felt it his duty to declare, that from the hapless day when Lord Sidinoutb quitted the chair of that House to become a prime minister of this country, fur which situation, point of ability and talent, he was no more qualified than any of the door-keepers of the House, down to the present time be had done nothing to deserve such a reward as that which had been bestowed upon him.—(Cheers.)—It would be very con sistent in those who were pleased with the approbation which had been bestowed upon the Manchester massacre—who ap proved of the circular letter respecting libels, and of the spy system—it would be very consistent in those persons to sup port a proposal for gi►ing the pension to the noble Lord ; but lie and others who thought with him that all those acts tended to bring the government into contempt, and to put in issue the peace MA tranquillity of the coma'', would never have cos• twitted thus to vote away 30001. of the public money. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, he would assert that • more able and efficient minister of the Crown had not cvisted than he had proved himself. By his talents and exer tions he had contributed mainly to the salvation of the country in an hour of danger and peril. Having these opinions with respect to the character and talents of his noble friend, it was not without feelings of disgust that lie heard the gross attack upon him, in which lie had been compared to one cf the door keepers or that House—a compari-ron to which, in the ordinary courtesy of one gentleman to another, uo gentleman of education ought to have been submitted. (Cheers from the ministerial side.) Such language never ought to base been used, as it was never called for, in the observations of one gentleman upon the political conduct of another. Taking all the circumstances into consideration, it was not without feelings of great disgust that he had heard some of the remarks, and as a gentleman or a member of Parliament, he could not sit there without express ing his reprobation of language the most disgusting and dis graceful be had ever heard within the walls of the British Par liament.—(lmmense cheering from the ministerial side followed time noble Lord's speech. In the midst of it) Mr. BROUGHAM rose and eeitl—. I protest, Sir, against the tone and language in which the noble Lord has presumed to address a representative of the people in this House." (Loud cheers froth, the opposition side.) " I protest against the prin ciple of this language; and I am surprised how any minister should dare—(Loud cheers from the opposition reechoed from the ministerial side. In the midst of the contending cheers, which lasted for some minutes) — The Marquis of LON DONDERRYrose to order, and said— " When any Houourable Member uses the word, dare,' as applied to any remark made by any other member in the course of a preceding speech. I apprehend it is quite incon sistent with the order of Parliamentary proceedings. (Cheers repeated on both sides.) If the term is applied to any obser vation used by ate, it is irregular ; for at the time of making remark which could call fur such an expression, the him. and learned member's duty was to have interrupted me, and called for the objectionable word,. in order to have them taken down, that the sense of the House might be taken on them.— The lion. and learned member has neglected to do so, and I now appeal to the Chair whether lie is regular in the expression lie has used. (Cheers and cries of " chair, chair.") The SPEAKER—As I am appealed to by the noble Lord, must say, that it would not be consistent with the usual prac tice of debates if I were to interrupt honourable members in the use of expreesions which may be interpreted with two meanings—one of which would not he against the rules of de bate. Undoubtedly, if the use or the word " dare" were to be interpreted in the sense iu which the noble Lord takes it, it would be quite disorderly ; but the House will allow one to bay that the term is one which is frequently used in debate without any offensiv e intention on the part of the member speaking, and no interruption is given. If, in the heat of debate, many ex pressions drop from members which may not bear the most mi nute investigation, I trust the House will not think it neglect in the Chair not to call to order. (Hear, hear.) The reason is, that on Seek occasions the chair would make an offence which most probably was never intended. (Cheers.) 1 apprehend that if the House has attended to the debate, they will recol lect that the expression u►ed by the 110 e. member (Mr. Banker) in allusion to what fell from the lion. member for Shrewsbury (Mr. If. G. Bennet). was used in the vs smith of debate, and without any intention of personal °Weiler, and that the reply given to it by the bun. member fur Shrewsbury was of • similar character. This was the reason why I did not call to order at the time, because I conceited that the words were out intended to give offence, and therefore the interruption would be mine- Mr. lIROUGIIAM.--Sir, I should bow to the decision of the chair, if given against me, with the saute respectful de ference that I would now return thanks for its decision in my favour, if, indeed, thanks could he required for the perlioni. ance of a duty. Every twin who beard the expressions I used, in reply to the language of a noble lord, mina have taken it in same sense in which you, Sir, have taken it—that it was nut meant offensively to any member. If the noble lord's inge nuity had not discovered it (which I excuse), his experience at least in Parliamentary matters might to have taught him that the term is applied, and has been applied again and again, without any personally intention. I, Sir, used the term when I heard a minister of the Crown presuming (fur I must not use ■ harsher word) to charge a representative of the people with ' using language disgusting and disgraceful ; but I will repeat the sense of the term, though it may not be permitted to use the sound—that whether it be presuming, or venturing, or pleasing, (for to such critics of words I will give the whole vocabulary of the English language, such as it is understood by those who speak it, and by him who does not, and I will give him his own vocabulary into the bargain), and I wiil say that in this Mouse no man ever h:fore heard a 'ster of the Crown using such epithets as "disgusting" and "disgraceful," as applied to the observations of my hon. friend (Mr. H. G. Bennet.) There may be those who thought the subject to which it referred disgraceful. I will nut say that I am one— hut I am one as lio think that the use of such language by a minister of the Crown is quite new in the House of Commons. —((:heers.) I may be pardoned if I ►peak with warmth after the attack that bad been made upon a fellow-member, and that member my esteenieil, and valued, and dear friend, whom all who know must esteem and respect for the amiable and exert .eiit qualities of Ilia heart.—' lieu, heat.) Heating sudi au -- - attack, it was impossible for me to sit silent.--(Cheers.)— With respect to lbe general queatioe, continued the hon. and learned gentleollm..he would poly say, that widow atiteriitg into the personal character of Lord Sitlinontli, which the noble marquis (Londouderry) had so much dwelt upon in his speech, • more absurd and ridiculous attempt than that of raising hint to the (Ace of prime stimister of the country, and particularly at the time he was so raised, had never before been heard of. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that the words— .' disgusting and disgraceful," were not applied to the general scope of the hon. gentleman's (Mr. Bennet's) arguments, hut when he heard that hon. member compare his noble friend to one of the doorkeepers of that llouse, and when he heard him add that situations such as he filled had been, from the Revo lution downwards, given to great families as the reward of corruption, he could not but say that such language was dis gusting and disgraceful; and however much disposed he was to retract his words used iu the heat of debate. wkich might he considered offensive, he could not, under all the circum stances retract those express-ons. Mr: CREE% EY briefly replied, and after disclaiming all motives of personal hostility to Lord Sidniouth and his family, proceeded to observe, that as the honorable member for Corte Castle had moved as an amendment, that the House should proceed to the other orders of the day, and as his (Mr. Creev ) '9 object was to pot his resolutions upon the journals. he should merely hand up to the Speaker his first resolution. Ile should then take the sense of the House upon it ; and if it were nega tived, be should then move his ether resolutions, and as the other orders of the day were proposed to be read. Ile did, not, however, intend to divide the Ilonae upon any of his Tabu lutions, except the first. . - . The Ilouse then divided npon Mr. Bank's amendment, when there appeared—For it, 143—Against it, 42-31njorit) in favour of the amendment, 101. On our re-admission into the gallery the other orders of the dsy were then read ; but, as it was proposed N each of them, Mr. Creevey proposed one of his resolutions as se) amendiumit. The amendments, however, were all negatived. The House then adjourned at a quarter before three o'clock. THURSDAY, JUNI.. 27. The House went into a committee on the stamp act, and Mr. Lushiugton movxd resolutions respecting wheeled carriages. Mr. Calcraft and Mr. I'. Moore expressed their astonishment that such a subject should be introduced into a stamp act. Mr. LOCK HART, adverting to the Stamp Duties Hill, spoke of the necessity of settling the question about 20s. and 255. deeds stamps; after the discussion that had taken place m e doubt about the validity of deeds had arisen that ought to he set at rest. The clause to advance the duty to 255. was, lie un derstood, to be abandoned. Mr. LISHINGTON admitted that the subject merited con sideration. Resolution ag.eed to. Mr. Alderman VI OOD presented a petition from vn indi.i vidurl named Ewer, formerly keeping the King's Arms in Westminster, complaining of the magistrates hawing arbi trarily deprived hint el his licienee. Petition read and ordered to be printed. LICENSING SYSTEM. Mr. G. BENNET mused the third reading of the Alehouse Licensing Bill. Lord GRAN BOURNE expressed his disapprobation of some parts of the bill, and he moved, as an amendment, that the 101 l be read a third time this day three months. Aid. C. SMITH said, that the Chairman in the committee had too readily given way to the opposition urged against the bill. It was now completely altered. All the penal clauses were against the poor publicans. The brewers, it seemed, Ind the preponderating iulluence. The bill in its present form was worili . . . . _ Mr. CARTWIRGHT observed, that he bad heard no coin plaints respecting magistrates' conduct towards public-houses, and he therefore declared, that to deprive the magistrates of their controuling power over public-Louses would be of most injurious tendency ; lie should therefore support the amendment. 31r, 31ONCK. denied that the bill diminished the powers of the country magistrates ;it only re;.;ulated them. Those powers were useful, he knew, as a magistrate. Some of them hail re sisted public-Louses from evangelical' . horror of beer drink. iug ; and others tool it into weir heads that public•houses were calculated to promote the destruction of their game. He ap proved (tithe bill as far as it went ; it was calculated to denee the unlimited power of the magistrates. In the country many houses had been arbitrarily and capriciously closed ; so that in many places persons might travel ten or twelve miles witlio..t Laing able to purchase the relief derivable front the wholesome beverage of beer. Mr. CALCRA FT said he did not think that the country ma gistrates deserved to have such a stigma DU( QD them as was conveyed by this bill. It would take from their coutroul the publicans in their neighbourhood ; sod if it were not withdraw n, he must support the amendment. Mr. (Secretary) PEEL trusted that the clause would be withdrawn, or considerably modified. Ile could riot consent to withdraw from the magistrates in the differetit counties, the coutroul hitherto enjoyed over public houses. He thou,,ht that power was useful fur public 'lmposes. They were not to legislate on some cases of hardship. If there were to be ap peals against some decisions of magistrates, the consequence would he, that there would he few or no complaints preferred, it would lie deemed in Hinny cases not worth the trouble of making complaints against improper and ill •corlticted houses. —He hoped the bun. member would withdraw or muddy the clause in question. Mr. M. A. TAYLOR did not think the clause in question called for from any necessity. Ile had attended petty sessions for thirty•five years, alai lie had never seen one instance where the licenses were withdrawn on account of publicans baring pursued party objects—certainly not on account of pinieliers having been lodged in particular houses. It any licences had had been withdrawn, it was where the public-houses were found to be too numeruns. To repeal the lower that at present existed would be to limit most useful powers in the magistrates. They would unt then he able to perform most useful duties. Mr. B. WILBRAHAM spoke against the clause. To retain it would be to repeal a power that was most usefully lodged with the local magistrates. He hoped it might be withdrawn, or that the bill tilsomd be postponed till the next session. M r . LOCK lIAR'f said, that while the bill was to give some security to Ike victuallers, it ought to existed protection to the public.; that the victuallers should in some way be subject to the consequeucea of " diluted and adulterated liqimuis of using bad measures, or of encouraging improper COMillet in their houses. Ile believed that the country magistrates had suocessfully checked the progress of debauchery and drunken ness in public houses , but he believed the magistrates had been nuttily aided by the poverty of the times, amid the vapid articles sold at MUM country public-Nooses. He, however, thought that the bill ought to be re-committed, to ascer tain whether the objections could not be removed , and at the game time wilt titer means of limiting that unniopoly %Web had givisvii up (mold uu be devised. • 7