The National Register. — London, England, 1822-07-01 00:00:00

cO6 r ( Imperial Pm Ituwesi emiliwurd flow pugs 203.) on the contrary, it his !veined friend bad lent ids aid to this newspaper, it had been done with a view to put down sedition and blasphemy. Sir JAMES MACINTOSH said, the loused gentleman was before the House as a public offider, the abettor of a series of calamines libels, contributing weekly to Ce expenses, and circulating them over the kingdom by his inllasince and recom mendations. It was nothing to them what court or jury might deride respecting the point of taw. That was entirely &verso isle/ire. Here, in Parliament, they acted, nut as a court of law, hut enquired only whether there was sufficient ground fur enquiry. They-were to enquire whether the noble Lord set an example in a high degree detrimental to the public peace, whether he encouraged political atter-km without decorum, with out delicacy, without regard to feeling or character. If there was sufficient ground to enquire whether he set an maniple of barbarizing poiitical warfare, and of giving rise to duels and the shedding of blood. The only question before the !forme was, whether there was prima latie evidence of gross miscon duct on the part of the learned Lord as a public officer. It was as an officer of high political authority that his misconduct railed for the inquiry of that House. Constables they would leave to the 'ordinary administration of the law ; but the Lord Advocatersf Scotland was intrusted with powers which that Hoase•could guard or (heck. The question which they were called *putt to decide was, whether the House would frown down an infamous system of calumny, or give it Iheir sanction meat perpetaate its evils. Hear.) The Marquis of LONDONDERRY began by stating the three heads under which lie would consider the subject. First, the connexion of his hon. and learned friend with the press— that was, with the Clydesdale Jowled and the Beacon; 241, the oppressive transact' in which Borth% ick was concerned ; and 3d, the ,proposition to call two persons before the com mittee, and to make certain inquiries of them. At what time was such a pence:ding proposed ? At this period of the sea pion, at a time when he could put it whether such an inquiry could he gone into with a view to substantial justice? This was proposed, too, on the ere of a legal prosecution, in which his hen. and learned friend would be overhauled on the pro prietorship. It was said that inquiry was all that was pre posed, but Parliament always sanctioned the principle that it was an small itiffiefon to be seta to a committee of inquiry ♦bove stairs. He thought it would have been more discreet in the ?canted lord to have kept himself distinct front those trans actions, and not to have raised any queation with regard to his eondact. (Hear, bear.) But in the whole of his conduct nothing could be found to touch his character as a man and a lawyer. 'I he noble marquis concluded by declaring. that if he were not ihe'Friend lint the politica lopponentof the learned bird, he would lay his hand upon his heart and say, that he could not vote for the motion. (Cheers from the ministerial, returued from the opposition benefit-a.) Mr. BERCROM RY briefly replied. The {louse then divided, when there oppesred— For the motion 05 Against it 120 I Majority 25. Adjourned at a quarter before two o'clock. 1% CUM:SOAV, 3175 F 26. Mr. CURWEN presented a petition from Col. Wood, com plaining of injuries sustained by hint id having been deprived of his commission, ■td dismissed the service without bid. I'. titian entered to be printed. Mr. BYNG prsatted the report on the subject of the Hiatt rate chapel. Alderman WOOD said he should oppose the bill in every stage. Mr. ARERCROMDY observed that this concerned charity poperty, and that there were proceedings in Chancery a espect ing it ; therefore it was indiscreet its the trustees to•preler the bill while those proceedings were in Chancery. Sir..f. M tCINTOSN said, if the bill were pressed forward, there ought to be proyisions ititioduced, that it should nut pre judice any decision of the Court of Chaucer). On the qusestion that the report be agreed to, and a bill Or dered accordingly, Mr. Mder.nan WOOD said be should oppose the motion in this its first stage. The gallery Wig cleared far a division. The numbers were, —Ayes 57—Noes 29—Majority 2H. Mr. LTTTLETON presented ■ petition from Mr. Morris. of Deitnn, Chester, pi svin. ; fur the repeal of the Salt Tax alto gether.—Ordered to be printed. Poetic Puts:, ScoTt.se co.—Mr. ADERCROMBY gave nntiee, that to morrow he sh old move for copies of all proceed ings adopted by Alexander against Borthwick, and by the Lord Adv.,eate against the same individual. Mr. HUM E moved fur details of the charges for the yeo manry corps of Bedfordshire, Middlesex, &c. for The Marquis of CHANDOS defended his corps from the charge of extravagant expeuce. Mr. HUME made no particular charge, yet he did not see why the Bucks corps should have the exclusive comfort of at tending the cormation at the pulslir expence. For souse corps there were charges of 5 and 10,0091. i fur others there was no charge. at ell. The Margolis of CHANDOS trusted that no insinuations would he thrown out against the Bucks Yeomanry ; on the oc casion of the coronation, they received the thanks of the Duke of York, Mr. G. 13ENNET said, the eapences were for suppression of riots, Ste. where there bad been no riots. As to the super loyally of the Bucks Yeomanry, he should have been satisfied rood! 'setter bad the toyalty been displayed Sr their ono cost. Mr. MONCK said there ought to be no espeuce for the yeo manry; they ought to be in Net what they were in name. Mr. HUME withdrew his motion fur the present. • THE LORD CH A SCELLOR.—Mr. M. A. TAYLOR brought forward Isis motion on the subject of the Lord Chancellor's Powers, and of the Appellant Jurisdiction of the House.—His former proposition was only negatived by four votes • Ind the noble marquis then wished the subject to be postponed till the subsequent session. The espences preveoted the powers Irons being useful. After basing dwelt on the defects of the exist ing system, and detailed the fillures of the plan to relieve the Court by means of the Vice-Chancellor, he concluded with moving, that the House resolve into a committee on the Vice- Chancellor's Act, with the view of revising the same. The Arro RN LY-GENERAL opposed the motion, contend. ing that the plan bad not 110 completely faded. The Vice- Chancellor's Court peal been most %metal. Mr. TW4§.4 also opposed the bill. Mr. M. A. TAYLOR replied.—After which the House di vided.--For the motion 5 l —Against it lifts—Majority against the motion 37. Mr. Cli LEVEY then rose to bring forward his motion on the auleet of ininisterill pensions, as sailed by the hill pass el ir Vie latter part of his late Majesty's reign. The hon. ine.ubst contended that this bill was a gross waste of public salmi, a job by which minkiers had taken 12,9091. a year to rewatil themselves. lie thou proem ded to comment on the and its provisions, by which ministers had taken the power TILE NATIONAL REGISTER of rewarding themselves into their own bends, and deprived the Crowe of that prerogative which the Crown had heretofore enjoyed. The provisines in this bill were also of a most ex travagant, kind for by it the Secretary of State, who bad been two years in office, was to have 3,0001. a year, whilst • Judge must be Chief Justice fifteen years before he was entitled to 2,00001. a year. The hon. member concluded by moving reso lutinns eaprimsive of these seiniments, and declaring that this act ought to be repealed. Mr. BANK ES mused as an amendment that the other orders of the day be read. Mt . G. HENN ET did not believe that the House of Common', even constituted as it was, would have voted a pension of 3,0001, to Lord Sidmouth. It was painful to allude to particelar indi viduate, hut he felt it his duty to declare, that from the haploid) day when Lord Sidmouth quitted the chair of that blouse become • prime minister of this country, for which situation, i• point of ability and talent, he was no more qualified than any of the door-keepers of the House, down to die present time is had done nothing to deserve such a reward as that width had been bestowed upon him.—{Cheers.)—lt would be very cow sietent iu those who were pleased with the approbation which had been bestowed upon the Manchester massacre—who ap proved of the circular letter respecting Witte, and of the spy system—it would be very consistent in those persons to sup port a proposal for giving the pension to the noble Lord ; but he and others w h o thought with him that all those acts tended to bring ibe government into contempt, and to put in issue the peace and tranquillity of the country, would never have con• seated thus to vote away 30001. of the public money. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, be would assert that a more able and efficient minister of the Crown had not existed than he bad proved himself. By his talents and earl's lions he had contributed mainly to the salvation of the country is an hour of danger and peril. Having these opinions with respect to the character and talents of his noble friend, it was not without feelings of disgust that his heard the gross attack upon hint, in which be had been compared to one of the door keepers of that Ilouae—a comparison to which, in the ordinary courtesy of one gentleman to another, no gent', man of education ought to have been subedit, 41. (Cheers from the ministerial side.) Such language never ought to have been need, as it was never called fur, in the abseil ations of one gentleman von the political conduct of another. Taking all the circumstances into considetation, it was not without feelings of great disgust that he had heard some of the remarks, and as a gentleman or a member of Parliament, he could not sit there without express ing his reprobation of language the most disgusting and dis graceful he had ever heard within the walls of the British Par liament.--(lnintense cheering from the tninisterial side followed the noble Lord's speech. Ito the midst of it ) Mr. BROUGHAM rose and said—" I protest, Sir, against the tone and language in v,liich the noble Lord has presumed to address a representative of the people iu this House." (Loud ch ers front the opposition side.) " I protest against the prin ciple of this language; and I sin etirprised how any minister should dare—(Loud cheers from the opposition re echoed from the ministerial side. In the midst of the coutendiug cheers, which lasted for some minutes) — The Marquis of LONDONDERRY rose to order, and said— " NV hen any Hotiourable Member uses the word, ' dare,' as applied to any remark made by any other member in the course of a preceding speech. 1 apprehend it is quite incite sista°, with the order of Parliamentary proceedings. (Cheers repeated on both sides.) If the term is applied to any obser vation used by toe, it is irregular ; fur at the time of making a retnaek which could call for such an expression, the hon. and learned member's duty was to have interrupted me. and called for the objectionable words in order to have them taken down, that the sense of the House might be taken oil them.— The lion. mid learned member has neglected to do so, and I now appeal to the ('hair *tether he is regular in the expression he has used. (Cheers and cries of " chair, chair.") The SPEAKER—As I ant appealed to by the noble Lord, I must ray, that it would not he consistent with the usual prac tice tut debates if I were to interrupt honourable members in the use of expressions which may he interpreted with two meanings—one of which would not be against the rules of tle bate. Undoubtedly, if the use of the word " dare" were to be interpreted in the se ..se in which the noble Lord takes it, it would be quite disorderly ; but the House will allow me to say that the term is one whielt is frequently used in debate without any offensive intention on the part of the niember speaking, and 110 interruption is given. If, in the heat of debate, many ex pressions drop from members which may not hear the most mi nute investigation, I trust the House will not think it neglect in the Chair not to call to order. (Hear, hear.) The reason is, that on such occasions the chair would make an offence which most probably was never intended. (Cheers.) I apprehend that if the House baa attended to the debate, they will recol lect that the expressine used by the lion. member (Mr. Bankes) in allusion to what fell from the hon. member for Shrewsbury (Mr. 11. G. Bennet), was used in the warmth of debate, and without any intention of personal offence, and that the reply given to it by the hon. member for Shrewsbury was of a similar character. This was the reason why I did Dot call to order at the time, because I conceived that the words were nut intended to give offence, and therefore the interruption would be unne cessary. Mr. BROUGHAM.--Sir, I should bow to the decision of the chair, if given against me, with the same respectful de ference that I would now return thanks fur its decision in my favour, if, indeed, thanks could be required 'or the perforpi auce of a duty. Every matt who heard the expressions I used, in reply to the language of a noble lord, must have taken it in same sense in which you, Sir, have taken it—that it was not meant offensively to any member. If the noble lord); inge nuity had not discovered it (which I excuse), his experience at least in Parliamentary matters ought to have taught him that the term is applied, slid has been applied again and again, without any personally intention. I, Sir, used the term when I beard a minister of the Crown presuming (for I must not use a harsher word) to charge a representative of the people with using language disgusting and disgraceful; but I will repeat the sense of the term, though it may not he permitted to use the sound—that whether it be presuming, or venturing, or pleasing, (for to such critics of words I will give the whole vocabulary of the English language, such as it is understood by those who speak it, and by him who does riot, and I will give hint his own vocabulary into the hargaiii), end I wiil sin that in this House no wan ever before heard a minister of tine Crown using such epithets as "disgusting" and "disgraceful.' as applied to the observations of my hon. friend (Mr. 11. G. Bennet.) There may be those who thought the subject to hieh it referred disgraceful.—l will not say that I am one— hu► I am nue who think that the use of such language by a minister of the Crown is quite new in the House of C 1111 l nimis. —(Cheers ) I may be pardoned if I speak with warmth after the attack that had been made spun a fellow-member, and that member my esteemed, mud valw.b, and dear fl it.llll, WllOlll all 0110 kunw 1101 A esteem mid rem. et for the ainialite autl excel lent qualities of his heart.—( lies, lieu ) Hewing sun It au attack, it was impossible for me to sit silent.—(('beers.)— With respect to the general question, continued the lion. nod learned gentleman, he would only nay, that without entering into the personsl character of Lord Sidinwith, which the noble marquis (Londonderry) bad so much dwelt upon in his spreelt. • more absurd and ridicnieus attempt than that of raising Win to the office of prime minister of the country, and particularly at the time he was no raised, ha•l never before h. en heard of. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY raid, that the words— " disgusting and disgraceful," were not applied to the general scope of the lion. gentleman's (Mr. Rennet's) arguments, but when he heard that hon. member compare his noble friend to one of the doorkeepers of that House, and when lie heard him mid that situations such as be filled had been, from the Revo lution downwards, given to great families as the reward of corruption, he could not hut say that such language was din. gusting and disgraceful ; and however much disposed he was to retract his welds used in the heat of debate. which iniglit be considered offensive, lie could not, under all the circum stances retract those calmest one. Mr; CREE% El briefly replied, and after disclaiming all motives of personal hostility to Lord Sidniouth and his family, proceeded to observe, that as the honorable member for Corfu Castle had moved as an amendment, that the House should proceed to the other orders of the day. and as his (Mr.Creevy's) object was to pot his resolutions upon the journals, lie should merely hand up to the Speaker his first resolution. lie should then take the sense of the House upon it ; and if it were nega tived, he should then move his other resolutions, awl as the tither orders of the day were proposed to be read. lie did, not, however, intend to divide the House upon any of his reso lutions, except the first. The House then divided upon Mr. Rank's amendment, when there appeared—For it, l42—Against it, 42—Majority in favour of the amendment, 101. On our re-admissiot, into the gallery the other orders of the idly were then read ; but, as it was proposed to each of them, r Creevey promoted one of his resolutions as an amenduseut. The amendments, however, were all negatived. The House then adjourned at a quarter before three o'clock. • . THURSDAY, JUNE AT . The llouse went into a committee on the stamp act, and Mr. Lushiugton moved resolue respecting wheeled carriages. Mr. Caleraft and Mr. P. Moore expressen their astonishment that such a subject should be introduced into a stamp act. Mr. LOCK HART, adverting to the Stamp Duties Rill, spoke of the necessity of settling the question about 20s. and 2.is. deeds stamps; after the discussion that had taken place some doubt about the validity of deeds had arisen that ought to be set at rest. The clause to advance the duty to 255. was, he un derstood, to be abandoned. Mr. LUSIIINGTON admitted that the subject merited con sideration. Resolution agreed to. Mr. Alderman WOOD presented a petition from sn indi►i vidual named Ewer, formerly keeping the King's Arms in W estistinster, complaining of the magistrates having arbi trarily deprived him of his !jocose. Petition read and ordered to be printed. LICENSING SYSTEM. Mr. G. RENNET moved the third reading of the Alelinuse Licensing Bill. Lord CHAN BOURN E expressed his disapprobation of some parts of the hill, and he moved, as an amendment, that the bill be read a third time this day three 1111 l ntlis. Ald. C. SMITH said, that the thairnian in the committee had too readily given way to the opposition urged against the bill.— It was now Calllpleteiy Sileleli. All the prima clauses were against the poor publicans. The brewers, it seemed, hal the preponderating influence. The bill in its present form was worth nothing. Mr. C.ART%YIRGiur observed, that lie had heard no com plaints respecting magistrates' conduct towards public-boasts. and lie therefore declared, that to deprive the magistrates of their controuling power over public-houses would be of most injorious tendency ; he should therefore support the saueuilintist. Mi, MOCK denied that the bill diminished the powers of the country magistrates ;it only regulated them. Those powers were useful, hr knew, as a magistrate. Some of them had re sisted from evangelical" honor Or beer drink. log ; and others took it into their heads that public-houses were calculated to promote the destruction of their game. He ap proved oldie bill as far as it weld ; it was calculated to defiler, the unlimited power of the magistrates. In the country many houses had been arbitrarily and capriciously closed ; so that in many places persons might travel ten or twelve miles withoet Laing able to purchase the relief derivable from the whulesiiirie beverage of beer. Mr. CALCRAFT said he did not think that the country ma gistrates deserved to have such a idiom cast on them as was conveyed by this hill. It would take from their coutroul the publicans in their neighbourhood ; and if it were not withdrawn, be must support the amendment. Mr. (Secretary) PEEL trusted that the clause would be withdrawn, or considerably muddied. He could not element to withdraw front the magistrates in the different counties, oec. the mimed hitherto enjoyed over public houses. He thought that power was useful for public purposes. They were nut to legislate on sonic eases of hardship. If there were to be ap peals against some decisions of magistrates, the consequence would he, that there would be few or on complaints preferred, it would he deemed in many cases not worth the trouble of making complaints against improper and ill conducted houses —He hoped the bun. member would withdraw ur modify the clause in question. Mr. M. A. TAYLOR did not think the clause in question called for from any necessity. Ilehad at'ended petty sessions fur thirty-five years, and he had never seen one instance where the licenses were withdrawn on accouut of publicans having pursued party objects—certainly not oo :Iccount of poachers having been lodged in particular houses. If any licences had had been withdrawn, it was where the public-bowies were found to be too numerous. To repeal the pow er that at present existed would be to limit most useful powers iii the magistrates. They would not then be able to perform most useful duties. Mr. 11. WILBRAHAM spoke against the clause. To retain it would be to repeal a power that was most usefully lodgvil with the local magistrates. Ile hoped it might he withdrawn. or that the bill 'moil el be postponed till the next session. Mr. LOCK HART said, that while the bill was to give some security to the victuallers, it ought to exterd protection to the public ; that the victuallers should in some way be subject to the consequences of selling " diluted and athilierated Impious, of using had measures, or of encouraging improper manduet is their houses. lie believed that the country magistrates had itlll. , ematilly checked the progress of debauchery amid drunkeu ness in public houses , but lie believed the magistrates had been mainly aided by the poverty of the times, and the vapid articles so:il at most country public-houses. He, however, thought th at the hill ought to be re-committed, to tomer lain whether the obj.•ctioes could not be removed, and at the Sallie tillle wL, tier alealls of flushing that monopoly ahiLb bad wows, up .:ould us, be de v S'