The National Register. — London, England, 1821-05-28 00:00:00

R r I 16A ... (Imperial Parliament continued/rani page (163. WOOS were granted to Lord Chatham, a n d then to Burke ; and such was the influence of bad precedent, that ever since, men, women, and children, from all quarters w ere quart. red upon this fund. Decency certainly was observed for some time ; but now the whole fund was swallowed rip by lords and ladies, members of that house and their Conner turns. — The law, nevertheless, conld not he altered—and all he cal- led fur. by his erintempleted tesolutions, ass that for the future there should Ise no eemione granted out of this fund— that the duty, on the contrary, should be appropriated to tba purposes named by the law. This, he thought. under the pert icular condition of our finnnces, would not be asking Ms mach ; and if the house did nut acquiesce its such proposition s he knew lint what could be tune disgraceful to the house. As to the !she:ids—he had spoken of Barbarities only—be was willing that the quest' hould be referred Ili wseleet committee, to be nonsitested by the government tit they pleased. If these stele not two fair propositions, he knew out • k.. 1 be mild suggest that cuss likely to be more accept able to that (Ilear, hear 1)-11c concluded with moving resolet ions accordingly. Mr. F. PALMER seconded the motion. Mr. GOULBURN ruse to oppose the emotion. All those whir had smitten on the subject, stn Ginner occasions had been guilty of gross misrepresentations; Is•r irntance, inn pamphlet addressed " to the electors of Cleat Ilritnin," it was Said that the funds o ere nenost when, swallowed up by pensions In lord., ladies, members of maleament, mid their eiiildren; se here in truth, of the produce of 1540, out of .25,0001. there was a sum of 16,0001. expended for Babadoes. The ques tion at issue was in reality between the colonies mid Great Britain ; if the funds were to be so appropriated, would not the coloiries diminish the amount, so twit there wurild he no advantage to this country. Ile contended, that the con struction of the Acts of Barbadoes and other Islands had been between the crown and the colonies what it nuw He concluded with moving the previous question. Mr. BERNAL traced the history of the duties, and the rapacity of Charles's ministers to get all the money possible. The duty in its origin was trot a legal impositium Souse of the members of the Barhadoes legislature resisted the urea wire of 166.9, for which they were imprisoned but the Act had the sanction of an unwilling assembly. But the real subject of the duty, lie thought, had been powerfully and truly stated by his hon. friend (Mr. Creevey) near him. After some further observations from Mr. Hume tied Sir C. Long, the house divided.—The, numbers were—for the Prelims question, 72—For the motion 50.—The motion was of course lost. Mr. WILLIAMS afterwards obtained leave to bring in a bill to regulate /arty-shilling freehold voters, In certain boroughs and cities. Mr. SCA RLETT concluded a long and able exposition on • the present state of the poor laws, by moving the second reading of hi. bull for amending those laws. Sir R. WILSON declared his decided opposition to the measure proposed by his hon. ft lend, w !rich be considered us a gross violation of the rights of the poor, and which, he eoutended, could not by possibility be adopted in the pre sent situation of the poor of this country. They lit present, though noxious to earn an honest livelihood, could not get employ. We had by our political measures, deprived the poor of those resources which they could have derived from their industry, and having done so, having deprived them of the power of obtaining the means of life themselves, they had a right to look for those means from the inure fortunate part of their fellow-creatures, who had the power of dispensing. them. He protested Kohut this measure, as an invasion of the statute of Elizabeth, whirls he considered as the Magna Chart& of the liberties of the poor; and, as such, he would defend that statute on their behalf. The him. ineneeer next proceeded to comment ou the marriage clause, and con tended, that the inceitsble effects of such a attire must be to destroy all our institutions, and to overturn sill our laws, reacted to guard the chastity and morals of the lower orders. lie concluded by declaring, that till lie saw every possible mode of retrenchment and economy adopted in the public expenditure, he never would consent to adopt the measure of his hon. friend. Mr. F. LEWIS strongly supported the second reading of the bill. Mr. BENETT (of Wilts) did not consider the present poor laws as defective—the fault rested in their adminis tration. To overset or alter them in the manner proposed would, in his opinion, prove dessructive to numbers of the poor. As to the increase of population, he could not agree that, generally speaking, that could be an veil. —lt might, perhaps, be au evil at the present moment, owing, to the state of the country ; but whilst we were a country importing provisions, and whilst we bad lands uncultivated to the extent of 2l millions of acres, would any one say we had au excess of population 1 He should feel it his duty to oppose this bill in every stage. Mr. HARBORD supported the bill. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY would suggest to the honourable and learned gentleman that lie Should withdraw his motion for the present, and should get his additional clauses printed, in order that the house might leak at his measure as a whole, and then fix as eat ly a day as possible fur the Wither consideration of the sub ject. Mr. CALCRAFT concurred with what hail fallen from the noble marquis. He thought that it would be better for his lion. Rod learned ft ieud to take the debate on the measure at sonic Hittite stage, after the bill had been re-pi ailed. Mr. SCARLET' said that lie should have no objection to go into the committee instanter, if lie had had his clauses ready. One of those to which lie had alluded he had prepared emit empuraneously w ith Isis bill ; but the other clauses Ise must confess that he had not ready, nor could he get ready a ithout a day of leisure to himself. It' the house would allow him to take the second reading nuw, he should be prepared to propose Isis clauses to the cum anittee stn Aloratay next. AILTROCOLIS HOAD'i Bt CRIPPS supported the inutinn. Mr. DENISON opposed the motion. Mr. J. `iMITH was in favour of it. Islr. HOLM E SUMNER was against the hill. Sir EDWARD KNATCIIIII7LL expressed a similar opinion. Mr. W. WILLTAMS did not think the bill calculated to accomplish its object ; lie must therefore oppose it. Sir E. HARVEY opposed the motion. Sir JOHN SEBRIOHT praised the exertions of the committee from which the bill emanated. Mr. I LLICIFT mood that it be cemtnitted this day three The House then divided—For the inauerliate re-com- Milment, ill Against IL—The Bud was thereture lost. THE NATIONAL REGISTER 'file other orders of the day having been disposed of, the house adjourned. FRIDAY, NAY 25. The Freeholders' Voters bill aas read a first lime.— Ordered to be read a second time on Monday week. A bill to enable justices of the peace to act out of their own counly,was brought in and read a first time. Ordered to be read a second time on Monday. Mr. LITTLETON obtained leave to withdraw the Church Briefs bill for the present session. Mr. Alderman WOOD presented the report of the London Bridge committee. Sir W. CURTIS availed himself of the earliest oppor tunity to enter his protest against this report. It recom mended the building a new bridge, an expense of 700,0001. and that he considered such expenditure would be most extravagant. Mr. Alderman WOOD defended the report. After what had jnst passed, he should expect to find the hon. hart. the sturdy advocate of economy on all future occa sions, and that would present lam in a new point of view. —The committee had consisted of 19 menthols, and he believed the lion. hart, stood alone when he placed him self in opposition to the report. It said nothing of an expense of 700,0001.; the report stated, that a new bridge would be better than the old one; and if a new bridge were Inuit, although the public would be benefited by it, none of its money would be wanted for the purpose. Repot t ordered to be printed. Ott MANS' EUND.—Sir W. CURTIS asked whether 8R lima. member intended to propose any committee respect ing the orphans' fund this session. Mr. H. UMN EU replied, that lie hail no such intention, owing to the lateness of the session ; hot he did nut knots why the hon. hart. should so particularly identify himself with the questiou ;it was the co u rt of nliletnien that was interested in it, and the hon. baronet had acknowledged himself the set vent of the court. Mr. Alderman WOOD rose but The SPEAKER reminded him that there was no ques tion before the house.—The conversation accordingly dropped. 'I he house at its rising was order ed to adjourn to Mon day next. A petition was presented from Birmingham against the poor laws amendment bill. The Irish stamps bill went through a committee.—Re port on Monday. The second reading of the audit of public accounts bill was ordered for Wednesday. Mi. W. COURTEN AY brought in a bill to regulate the sale of trust estates.—Read a fist time, and ordered to be read a second time on Monday. Mr. 0. BENNE IT presented a petition from a gentle man named Trimmer, in Wiltshire, complaining that a slate quarry had been rented by the crown to Mr. Ten nam, the petitioner having previously bid fur it. Mr. Alderman WOOD observed, such was the present state of our finances, that this matter ought to be strictly inquired into, with the view of protecting the public interest.—Petition ordered to be printed. A message from the lords announced that their lordships had agreed to the Eau Brink Drainage bill, and the Cr:impound Disfranchisement bill, with amendment:. Lord MILTON called the attention of the house to the Graintionod Disfranchisement bill, with amendments, a lin h bad come from the lords, desii Mg the concurrence of the Mouse; and he moved that the amendments be now Lord J. RUSSELL thought it wool,' be better nt once to name Mt the amendments of the ioids be taken into eonsidetation on Wednesday next. lie added, that he was prepared to move that the house agree to those amendments. (Hear.) r. C. W. W YNN observed,that it would be adviseable at the beam time to propose some regulation for the con ducting of the elections of the two additional members for Yorkshire. Lord LONDONDERRY hoped the lion. member would pause b. tore he prises ered in the proposing of such regu lations as part of the present measure, for lie feared that the agitation of them might occupy so much time as to endanger the loss of the bill. (Hear.) Inadequate us was the bill, he was apprehensive that, by such course isf proceeding, the measure would tie lost. Amendments ordered to be taken into consideration on Wednesday next. Mr. HUME presented a petition from Mr. Thorpe, late a judge at Sierra Leone, complaining of his dismission, iu consequence ut being the medium of preferring charges against Governor Maxwell. The petitioner had sustained great losses in cunsequeoce of having abandoned his pros tessiou to serve the govet anoint, and of being refused 'smithy and redress. Mr. WA RAE observed, that there was no foundation for the charges against Governor Maxwell. Mr. 601..1.Hji:N said he should our avail himself of circumstances within his knowledge to aggravate the . situation of the petitioner. Mr. HUME regretted th;.l the Colonial St cittary should nut have eitteted into some explanation. The petitioner was unaware of the cause of his dismissal, after having been engaged in the government fur 14 years f at least the petitioner stated as much. Mr. HUTCHINSON expressed himself in similar terms; the pi titioner was anxious to remove the stigma from his character.--Petition read, and ordered to be printed. CO !MI N A L Laws.—Sir J. MACINTOSH presented the report of tile forgery punishment bill. He then observed, that 2.i0 'umbel a hail expressed their opinion or the pu nishment I death for forgery I and amongst them were 6.111 s ut iii most distinguished and enlightened merchants. lie now rose to skew his reference to the opinions of °filets, by the amendments which lie was about to pro pose. He had alteatly made considerable sacrifices of his own opinions, in older not to sutler them to stand in the way in those ameliorations of the CI imival law which lie was desirous of accomplishing. The amendments which he should propose welt respecting the forgery of wills, mai riage registers, and transfers of stock, and to exempt them from the operation of the bill. The first aniendiueut en the report hiving been pro posed, Mr. CRYPTS thought the fargery of country note?' ought to he exempted from the opelation of the bill. Bank notes, when forted, were stopped; but if country notes Ile forged, tlir ci edit and stability of the coun try wile at stake. Sir J. MACINTOSH could not acquiesce in the sug geitiou of the hum member. Mr. GRENIELL agreed with what Ind (elm foul Mr. Cripps. He did not see why bank note forgeries should be exempted. Mr. J. MARTIN said he should support the bill, if the punishment were made transportation for life. Mr. 'SENN Err observed, that transportation in many instances operated as a bounty on crime; it was, in tact, generally considered as no punishment at all. Mr. BARING remarked, that if there were no severer punishment to be proposed than that of transportation, he should oppose the bill; he agreed on what had been stated, that it was, in fact, no punishment at all. Mr. J. SMITH stated, that the punishment ought to he strictly defined and rigorously adhered to ; no judge could desire to have discretionary power lodged in his hands. Alter some remarks from Mr. Lockhart, the proposition for omitting the word " wills" was agreed to. Sir J . MACINTOSH then proposed the exception of marriage registers. Amendment agreed to, as was the next for omitting the words respecting forgeries of transfer of stock. Sir J. MACINTOSH then proposed words to follow imprisonment, " for a period of net less than three years, and not exceeding fourteen years." Mr. BARING should not desire the hill to pass, if "three years" were retained , he was for naming the larger period positively, •' fourteen years' hard labour." To have the less period would be to diminish the terror of the offence. Dr.LUSHINGTON thought the punishment of forgery ought to be most severe, and it ought to be positive—not less than ten years' imprisonment and hard labour. Ho would propose MIL It amendment, *lnch was agreed to. Sir J. NIALANTOSH, at the request of a learned lord, proposed that zscotland be exempted from the operation of this hill. . _ Alr. CRI PPS could not consent to let this bill go forth to the country without the weeds," to exempt promissory notes, Are. from the bill." The SPEAKER said, the bill hail been gone through— the house could not go hack ; the proposed amendment might he urged iu a future stage of the bill. Mr. 3IABERLY observed, that if the amendment was not introduced, the man would be a madman who ►hould forge bank notes with the probability of being hanged, when lie might forge country notes without the possibility of being executed. It would operate as a premium on the forgery of country notes. Several members desired the amendment to be pot, but the Speaker said it could be regularly proposed on the third reading. Additional clause agreed to, and bill ordered to be re committed, to afford opportunity for the.proposieg of Mr. Cripp►' amendment. Atoll( ESTIMATILS.—The house afterwards went into a committee of supply, to which committee the remaining army estimates were referred. Lord PALMERS'I'ON brought them forward. He proposed that there be granted 1,00 1,0,;01. for the army extraordinaries. Mr. HUME proposed to reduce the vote by 36,0001. Upon this amendment a long conversation followed, and the tin's. member consented to withdraw his amendment, to make way for one of Mr. BENNETT's, who proposed to reduce the stun of 1,000,0001. to 000,000!. Upon this emeintinclit the committee divided, when the numbers were—For the amendment, 3V—Aglrinst it, '54. The next resolution proposed was ill, suns of 401,56. A. for the Commissar let. Mr. MABERLY expressed that this department should undergo revision. Mr. HUME said that from lUI 6 to MD the expences of that department bad been a 14,0001. and the yearly charges of the establishment amontited to 32,7771. For 181 ti the whole expences of the commissariat in Great Britain had been 301,0001. This year it was 401,0001. The addition of the storekeeper's expeto:en would, perhaps, account for the difference. But after allowing for that, there would not be one shilling of reduction of the expences of 1518. The whole number of eortuntammaries in 1813, a time of war was 300. By the returns on the table, it ap peared that there were still 230, when the ninuler of men to be supplied was reduced to one third. Mr. Herries had 1,2.)01. a year. 'ibis was a most extravagant pension fur the few years he had been commissary general, after having previously hero private secretary to Mr. Pereeval. Another pension to which he objected was, 1,1(101. to Mr. Trotter, who had been commissary general in 1808, and raised the expellees of the establishment in a few years to 52,0001. a year more than be had found them. Mr. ARBU niNoT said, that lie could assure the com mittee that it was impossible to yonder% the business of the department with a smaller number of comm issaries. The number had been reduced too low in 1816 ; but the protests from various stations made it necessary to in. crease it again to what it was at pi escat. Mr. It. WARD justified the expences of the store kreper's depattnient. The annual charge was 45,0001. and for this a stun uI 5,000,0001. was administered. Mr. H. 0. BEN N FL' protested against the pension to Mr. Bert irs. Active comtnissarics-getteral who had been engaged by night and by day in the severe exertions of war had retired with 4001. 50.)I. or 0001. a year. Mr• Herries, whose sersices had been rendered in a wants well-eurpeted room, with his pen in his hand and his ink• stand before him, rsccivcd 14001. a year. Colonel DAVIES said, that lie should content himself with moving a reduction of ti,2381. front the grant their before the house. Colonel DAVIES said lie would w ithdraw his amend. mcnt, and substitute in its stead another, calling on the house to reduce t he grant by only 4,2381. Mr. Ni. CALVERT observed, that, without entering iuto the propriety or impropriety mil this amendment, her was inclined to sapient any general reduction of so much per cent. on the estimates, and to leave the disposal of the sum to the responsibility of governmetit. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the corn. mince divided, when there appeared for tlic amendment, 40—against it, ;10—Majority against it, 40. Uu our return to the gallery we found Mr. P Moore, moriug that time chairman du report pi egress, and ask leas c to sit agave, on the ground that the rme lhea before it involved constitutional questions too int..ut tint to be di .eusFPd at that late hour of the evening. The question was agreed to after a short conversation in which COIUUCI 1).1% ie•, Al t. nelitat, and Mr. Arbuthnot took a share. Mr. ARBU fIiNOT, in the absence of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, gave notice, that that right honourable gentleman w ould bring forw ard his budget on Friday next. The other orders of the (lay were disposed of sad the house adjuuteed et one o'clock.