The National Register. — London, England, 1816-03-04 00:00:00

, A and the game had certainly turned in their favour.—( h , ar, hear. i-- He deprecated the erection of barracks, and stated the opinion of the great Lord ('hatham, "that when a barrack wax built i.l England, adieu to the liberties of the colentrv." We we-t now in the midst of barracks, and surrounded be die. tress. He requested Country Gentlemen to persevere iiu up sosing the tax. Lord EIIIIINGTON regretted that the Right Hon. Gentleman had not intimated a wish to delay the consideration of the tax. lle strongly tee() 11111 l ended the Country Gentlemen to unite in opposing the tax, which was to support an eIIOVITIOGS 3lilitary Establishment. He hoped the Noble Lord had not imbibed any British jealousies of the military nations on the Continent whs.,' lie was there; fur a military spirit wae the bane and the curse of Europe. Mr. Pit LaTON repeated his former statements of the distresses of the country, of which he could read the !louse a history. He denominated the Chancellor of the Exchequer a puny, miscalculating person; and said, lie could be content to go down the stream of tune, if the distress only affected himself; but when the whole country we're involved, he could not avoid feeling. and expressing those kelings. Mr. W yet: was sorry to find his Right Hon. Friend persist ing in not allowing the people time to express their opinion on this subject. Meetings would be held in every part of the na tion in a few days , and it was the duty of every gentleman who had constituents, to delay, if possible, the discussion on this important subject, till those constituents had had time to de clare their opinion. Ile also much regretted that such language as hail been used should have burn adopted by Ministers, as— " Limo'. int impatience of taxation;'—" exaggerated state ments," Vic. Were these the proper terms to be used towards the people who. fur 12 years, had borne their burihens with unexampled patience?—Such language as this tended only to destroy the confidence of the people in their Representatives. Mr. ROSE thought the present discussion on the Property-tax et as premature. It was impossible to judge of the propriety of the tax till the necessity for it was shown ; and if it should be found on enquiry that the money was necessary, lie was con vinced use tax could be proposed which would press so fairly and equally upon the public as this would. —'Hear, hear.)—He should like to hear those gentlemen who call so loudly Hear, hear, etate what taxes they would propose, in lieu of this, which would not press harder on the middling class of people. He wished genUenien would suffer this tax ta have a fair and cool disrussiou. Mr. PONIONNY agreed with the Right Hon. Gentleman. A cool discussion of the tax was what he wanted. With respect to the speech of the Right How Gentleman, it seemed to have only one object, and that was, to terrify the people, by saying to them, do not petition ago t the Property Tax; for if that tax is repealed, the fruitful mind of the Chancellor of the Ex chequer will discover sonic other tax instead, which will be ten-fold inure burtbensome to you. This was an entirely new way of addressing the Representatives of the People, and .througli them the People themselves. Mr. Bum ISM AM felt more than ever convinced of the neces sity of delay in hriugiug forward this measure. The Right Hun. Geutleinais who had just sat down had said nothing less than this---at present you feel only the little finger of the Chan cellor of the Exchequer, but soon you shall feel the weight of his whole hand. .Ifter such a declaration, was it not fitting the people should have time to express their opinions. Mr. H. AnniseToe vindicated the Chancellor of the. Ex chequer front the charge of precipitancy on this occasion. On the first clay of the Sessions, and several times since, his Right Hon. Frivol bad dectaved his intention of proposing a con tinuation of the Property-tax. A month had since elapsed, closing the whole of which time there had been every oppor tunity of the Inuple's presenting their Petitions. With respect do his Right Hon. Friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the House must feel that he, of all men, insist most anxiously look forward to and desire a reduction of the taxes. Ma - . FREEMANTLC was persuaded there was not a single Gen tleman in the House, except indeed the Right Hon. Gentleman and his Friends, who, when he asked, last year, for the Pro perty-tax for one year logger, understood it was to be con tinued as a Peace 'rax. The Hon. Member then proceeded to condemn the Property-tax in strong terms ; and observed, that he trusted the House would now withhold it ; as, if the Property-tax was not granted, the military establishment of the country must be reduced. Under the present contemplated Peace Establishment no greater saving than six millions an nually would be made. He would ask if this wee a lit return to the people for all the sacrifices they had made for 20 years ,past Lord BINNING did not recollect any pledge having been given by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, on proposing the continuation of the Property-tax last year, that it should con tinue :only during the war; iodised, the circumstances under which its continuance was proposed, rendered the giving such .a pledge impossible.—W Rh respect to any attempt on the part of aliviisters to still.: the public voice, a crime which had been eroputed to them, it was almost unnecessary to otter a word in answer to a charge so absurd. Mr. BARING was perfectly aware that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had declared his opinion on the Property-tax over and over again ; and all lie (Mr. It.) wanted was, that the peo le should have sin opportunity of derlaring their opinion (owe. The Noble Lord who spoke last, and a Right lion. Gentleman, whoopake before helm (Mr. Rose), had said, that if it should be found the proposed establiehmect was accessary, then money anu+t he had ; and if the Property-tax was repealed, some other must be impulsed which might be tOund more oppressive. Ile {Mr. Bariug) would render this unnecessary, by obliging the Right How I.:cutler/tan to reduce the estichlislimeut. Tine could only be done, it appemed, by putting it out s'f ;be power of Alinietc 111 to,provide for itseupport. Once reduce the Establish nient ; and WC necessity for the tax, the only argument which aoulsl be adduced in its favour would b' clone away. The House had unit told of the w ealth and prosperity of the coun try : had the Right lion. Gentleman, the Noble. Lord, alai his travelled the country lately? ll' they had, they would lave sum the ddierence. Nv, be loreot ; they might prooably have travelled ; but if they had, their travels were probe's!) , confined tc the road between London and Brigletoa, and this :out nerha t is wits all t.dr.ll, joy, and festivity. Mr. WALLACE slefendeil the. Tax, tied observed, that no re eductiou could by poseibility be made in our ;meioses! Establish meat to en arnmet exceeding tiou,twal, and therefore the In 4.oate-tax would still be nrce , sury. Sic J. 11~ctssaoslt contended, that almost every county in . 'the I.iiige..:a was calked on, and in seas it or 8 slays would meet, to expiess pa :he Property-tax. Buttf.e Right Hon. Qentlemaii s . aw waute3 to force the House into a emisi aleristlei of (WA amiject on e riday net.', hence these °pi:liens .could possible lasc.i.a the !dense; and (hue pledeleg the Itur.si . to a e,l:Jil plat a stop to ti;.. petitions being Jaceattriat but, by ealopting this course, the Right Hon. Gesstiemen ;could deprive the people of our of their clearest I.r•lirights. words from 1%1 r. l'c Eivro.x. the Petition was. read. THE NATIONAL REGISTER. AKMY ESTIMATES. The adjourned debate on the Army Estimates was then re sumed. ME. J. P. GRANT considered the present question as one of the greatest importance whirl could possibly come before the House. Gentlemen were now called on to vote that which, if they agreed tn, would he to give their sanction to au attempt to introduce a Military Government into this country in the place of our present Constitution. He, for one, could never agree that there was • necessity for our maintaining a standing army, during a time of profound peace, of 139,000 men. There 'lever had been, ON any former occasion, a Peace Establishment of more than 50,0(10 men; and he could_ not now look without . . alarm at an attempt to increase it threefold. He had the gre•,t est confidence and the highest opinion of the honour of toe Officers who commanded this army ; but he could not consent to put the liberties of the country in the power of any Class of men or Ministers vi hatever. If the votes now asked were , agreed to, it would form a precedent for keeping up such an armed force es would render the Crown independent of any controul; and the House of Commons might, at no very dis tant period, find itself the Representative Body of a people free only in name. Mr. YORKE explained. Mr. Routasos said, the present question was not whether we should have an establishment or not, but how far, in a con- 1 stitutional view, we might go. Gentlemen were very partial to drawing comparisons between tho present estimates and those of 1791, without cons.ileting that the establishments of that year were the establishments of a year after sewn years of peace. And further, Gentlemen always wished to take the present proposed establish lints a permanent peace establish went, w hick it by no means was. He was convinced that when the subject should have been fairly discussed, the people of England, who, when left to themselves, always thought right, would also determine in favour of the proposed Establishment. ith respect to endangering the Constitution, or the free dom of the country, he had as high a value for these as any man could have. He believed it was owing to their being so free that we were so great a people, and thought it was only by our continuing free that we could continue great. He did not consider that our freedom would he at all endangered by agree ing to the estimates now before the House; and feeling that they were necessary for the honour and interests of the coun try, he would give them his conscientious support. Mr. En xt.ia A NTLE found himself called upon to oppose these Estimates, both on the ground of constitutional danger and expense. He contended that our rich colonies ought to sup port the whole or part of their Establishments. Since the c - mencement of the war, the people had paid, in direct taxation, 103$ millions; and together, directly or indirectly, 1750 milt lions. Surely, after such sacrifices, the House should pause before they fixed on the people a peace expenditure of nearly seventy millions a year. Lord BINNING thought the arguments of the Hon. Gentleman called strongly on the House to go into the Committee, in which it might be shown whether the economical arrangements he had recommended were practicable or not. Instead of this being a scheme to this ow on us the trammels of a military despo tism, he contended that, in a Committee it would be shown, that the establishment proposed was necessaly for the mainte tenanee of our liberties. Sir It. HERON said, no one could argue that a standing army to sonic amount should not be kept up, but there was a great difference between a standing allay of 45,000 men and one of 150,000. It would be impossible to keep up these establish ments without draining the country so as to reditee as to a state of national bankruptcy. If we must hare foreign alliances, let them be mode on the principles of civil liberty, and not to main tain a parcel of despots on their thrones. Since the battle of Waterloo, oar intim, with the despot , (with the Duke of Wel lington for their High Constable. and the Noble Lord as their Gentleman Usher> was not for the benefit of the people. That union would never be against any King except such an one as the King of Saxony; it would never be against the ledoved Ferdinand. These Sovereigns allowed their armies to be'paid by us—they had defended themselves and attacked their mor tal enemy, at our expense. They charged 111. 2s. for every men, dead or alive, whom they brought to our assistance, or rather to their own. All loans made by us to them were quite forgotten. He snpposed they would nut be thinned by a nation of shopkeepers, though at the point of bankruptcy. They were our most magnanimous and rapacious allies.—(4 laugh.) Mr. PEELE contended, that if be had to address a House composed of Irish members, he could easily show that the cis it power in Ireland was at present Madequate to the maintenance of tranquillity there, and that 25,000 men were absolutely ne cessary for that purpose. lint as an Hon. and I...anted Gen tleman (Brougham) said last night, that England was nut Ger many: is let Gentlemen remember that Eiteland was not Ireland; and therefore, when legislating for Ireland. let them not think they were doing so fur England. In Ireland they had not that inestimable blessing -a resident gentry ; and they had au encreiting population, without means of employment. A military force was necessary for the usual military duties: in aid of the civil power; and to keep down that grievous bahe to Ireland—illicit distillation. He was hot more partial than others to the employment of the military for maintaining the civil peace; but it was better that by the army the midnight incendiary and murderer should be apprehended, than that they should be suffered to escape. The loyal and industrious peasant deserved protection; and unless it wet e also afforded to the country gentleman, they would not reside on theirestates. Mr. W. IVVNNE said, that if the tremendous picture drawn by the Right Hon. (iCidit 111:11I was correct, it surely, at least, should be substantiated hi ample enquiry ; and it was the duty of the House to use every effort to remedy such alarming evils. But he was not sure sslwther the employment of the military force on all civil procew:s would not tend still inure to weaken the respect entertained tin Ireland for the laws. On the sub jest of going into the Committee on the Estimates, he contend eel that it %%mild be infinitely more constitutional to vote a sum for the payment of the army in France, and that the sum to be paid by Prauce for the maintenance of that army should be lodged in the Treasury under the contronl of Parliament. ' On this ground, if the inotiou for going into the Committee should succeed, he shoolil feel it his duty to move, that if it be an infornetion to the Committee to provide a aunt for the pay , of the army in Frauce. He felt no apprehension from the power of Ennio*, crippled as it w:l4 ; b u t be apprehended danger from the tary spirit which was growing in the roan try.- = Thirty years ago there were no solelhors stahaned at the British Museum or the loyal Academy, tint now then were ; and, besides, the passages through St. Jaimrs's wet e %tor, ed soldiers, is breach of the Privileges of the House, even Members, by an authority vs melt In %V RS d soul. and he h oped some one would firing the subject forward, in know uy what authmeey the Executive Gov ernment brut order ed those passage s Sir J. N Lee Cour - age red s‘ th the Right Hoe. 'Gentle-mai, (Mi. Peek) that a less force foam %bat wan sought tar MARCH 4. would oe went. 1).• wishrd that pi enarneitt, and not tempot ary retacntes should he C I for the evils un. der which Ireland loitoneed. Sneh remedies coeld only ho found in the hurt t of 4 Connnittve appointed to inqiiiie into the real state of !eclat:4. Lord Fni.ksTorne moved an :nljournment, to which Mr. yam. nittart agreed; and at Two titloek the Debuto war , adjoulutd till the nest day. WEDNESIM V, FEB. 28. Petitions from the Borough of Montro: , e, from three of the ilundri.d, of Suffolk, from Arundel, and from Fiteshire, were presented against the Property Tax. . . Mr. JONI:* said, the people of this country had shown that spirit of nationality which disanguished them above all others by patiently bc,iring the burdens of taxation wits a they saw how absolutely necessary they were for in , iiinng success to the great contest in which we had been engaged : but it s its tin. grateful to weigh them down and sink theta to the earth when peace had again promise., her long sou rht blessings. Serjeant OasLoW protested against the adoption of the Pro. perty Tax in time of peace ; and he hoped that the Chancellor of the Exchequer would himself see the imprmriety of pressing upon the people what they seemed neither waling Dot able to endure. Sir B. HERON stated his reasons for having, on a former oc casion, voted for the tax, and why he should in the present ses sion decidedly oppose it. The Hon. L. DLNHAS presented a Peti.!on from York, and Mr. CoisF. one limn Brandon, in Stiff°lk, and Irma .swafflaani, in Norfolk, against the l'roperty Sir F. ISt 12DETT brought up a Petition from the town of Monmouth against the Property Tax. '1 Re lieved, complained not only of the want of faith in Parliament, and the gross violation of their pledge in endeavouring to per petuate a measure %%Inch was scarce!) tolerable in the most dreadful warfare, and which was never to be borne by a tree people in a period of tranquillity; but of the pcusionst which had been granted so lavishly by Ministerial influence, and tim e sinecure places which were given to men who had done no thing in the service of their country.. -Ordered to be '..ld an the table. Mr. P. Moong broutht up a Petition froni Coventry against the Property-tax. The Hon Member reminded the House of what he h.id said in the course of the last Session, that he ...mild not contribute, and he should always advise his constituents and the country not to contribute, one shilling towards the establishment of the Bourbons on the Oriole of Franey. He said, that great as this petition stated the distress At Coventry to be, it stated not a tenth part of the stab.: ings. The House would he shocked to hear, that the pittance atr,:i tied by a work-house, with all its disadvantages, so tar excelled what was to be had by the lower classes of the people without it, that interest was frequently excited to be permitted to share Mr. BuTTERWORTM did not think that the tax would have been so oppressive, had it not been levied upon income as well as property. Whatever Ministers might say, the yountry was in a state of unprecedented distress that could only be fully known by those who saw it. The trade of Coventry was se greatly depressed, that sonic houses which used to pay •tool. or sdol. a week to workmen, now paid only 401. or AL The Hon. Mr. LvT►t.ETox belic►ed, that the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer had no eoi reel idea of the distressed state of the country. Proofs of it bad b.►n laid be fore the House, however; and inure proofs would every day conic before the Parliament. Mr. LOCKHART said, that to a Property-tax, properly gra dnated and apportioned, he would give every support; but to a Property -tax, founded on uvh principles as at present pro posed, he could not consent. Mr. THOMPUOt said, that the fanners were in a most dis tressed condilion. He knew fai:uers who had been some time ago worth two, three, Kodl four thousand pounds, and who were now in an absolute state of bankruptcy; yet were pitying the some Property-tax still as they had been in their most prosper ous daps. . . _ . Mr. 'll. SHAW hoped that his 3lajesty's Ministers would listen to the complaints of the House and of the nation: He expo sed the injustice at the tax, and thought a loan might be advan tageously resorted to instead. The ineasii.•e, if carried, he was convinced,would prove most detrimental t ven to Ministers; and ter their own interests he recommentlei! them to listen to the general sentiment prevailing wilhiu and without the House. Mr. Ila itei.vl , said, all means of retrenchment ought find to be tried ; and, before monuments were proposed to be erected to our armies, it ought to be considered whetter the Property Tax would not be a monument of our listresses Although he objected to the continuance of this otlensiv emeasnre, hu should nut think it necessary to vote against the army Estimates. Mr. Knout:llAM implored all the Ilembers who opposed the proposed renewal not to allow the t'liancellor to bring in his Bill. the', dis ided their fortes, and allowed the tax to go on at ad, with the view of making te , .ditications iu it, the Chan cellor of the Exchequer would take them in detail, and carry through his edition of the. tax. Mrl - Fon ins stated, that he had been last autumn in various parts of Scotland ; and that, both ghat he heard and saw, and the represcutatioas made to him, ie could as , t...e the Howe that in that CAntuity the Properkt 'fax eis unit ersaly exeera..l tcd.—Mr. Ponsonhy, Lord Milton, and Mr. Martin, each spoke shortly ag; t the tax. Mr. J. SMITH presented n Petition from the town and county of Nottitighato against the Property Tax, and the . propotitd Peace Establishment. He supported the prayer ci the Peti tion at cousiderable length. Mr. PHILLIPS expressed his surprise that none of 11w Hon. Gentlemen on the other side ofthe Howe had et srtken in fa vour of Car measure. He denied that the 9 f th e t ro d e o f the country wall so tiomishing as described in the Speech Item the Throne. Mr. FREEMANTLE thought it weA itnprAgibie the Chancellor of the I..xeli f goer should persist is it; fu., in puha of fact, he could nut derive the revenue from it which he. expected, auti the impost would fail of its effect. Li.rd Cuss PTON was in favour of the Property Tax, because he befit ic.l that .f the Chancellor of die Fxrliequer were forced to abandon it,he would propose much worse taxes : not through any disposition to oppress the people, but because he could not help It. There was no Who- tax that %wild produce an equal re%rlsCe. Mr. Potteotrav congtatulated the Noble Lead on the courage which he 11...1 thylaye.l on this occasion. Me had put himself f irm and in the most manly and dign.fied manner for his friends, the liii tea, mheu nut foie of Wens %Quid say any thing fur thetitselves. All the Petitions presented were ordered talk on the table. CIVIL L.. ARREARS. Mr. liserierr asked it au) :Lears of iii;Ziv Li-t remained undischeirpted. u. VA S! TACT still, that certaist mil—outs of the il List, an ..m ar Itcd occurs-• 11, ‘‘otik: -hortly be laid beton: tlit; Low ; and then he should submit a measure for the better