The National Register. — London, England, 1821-05-27 00:00:00

168 (Imperial Parl;ament cartinuediram page (163. sinus were graciled to 11.0t11 CW111:1114 and Shen to Burke and inch was U r iiillueime of had precedent, that ever since, men, wnnten,and rhildi en, front all quarters is ere quartered upon this fund. Decency certainly was observed for 110111 C time; but now the a hole fund was swallowed sip by lords and Indies, inemlicis of that house and thi.ir comic( lions. — The law, bevel Owlet's, could out be almietl--and all he cal led fur, by leis contempl.iird iesulatimis, was that for the future there 1 , 1 Id be no pensiosui granted out of this fund— that the ditty, to, thr contrary, should be appropriated to the purposes named by the low. This, he thought, under the particular condition of our finances, would not be asking too much ; nod it the 'louse did not acquiesce ill such tit °position, lie knew art a hat could he mole disgraceful to the house. As to the I/1111 t pokes' of Barbadoes only—he was a illing that the quest inn should he referred to a select committee, to be amnia ited by the post •nt PI they pleased. If these a ere slot too fair propositious, he knew nut what he could ,m4est that was likely to be snore accept able In that house.—(Hear, hear 1)-11e coot laded with moving resolutions secoidingv. Mr. F PALMER seconded the motion. Mr. (OULItUItN ruse to oppose the motion. All those lits had spoken on the subject, un former occasions had been gushy of erns, tnisrepresentaiions ; r•r instance, in a pamphlet addressed " to the circuits of Bleat Britain," it was Mid that the fonds o ere almost %holly sit allowed up by petisinos to bads, ladies, members of mrliatuent, and their ciiildren; when, in troth, of the produce of 182(1, out of 25,0001. there was a sum of 16,0001. expended for 11.•ibarloes. The ques lion at issue was in reality between the colonies and Gaul Brituin ; if the funds were to be so appeopriated, would out the euluoies diminish the amount, so that there would be no advantage to ibis country. lie conic wird, that the con- stratum' of the Acts of linthadoes and other Islands had hi en bet oven the crown sod the colonies what it now was. concluded with musing the previous question. Mr. BERNAL traced the history of the duties, and the rapacity oh Chailes's Hollister) to get all the money possible. The duty in its (night was not n legal imposition. Some of the members of the !tornadoes legislature resisted the mea sure of 1603, for which they were imprisoned; but the Act find the sanction of an miss illiug iissealbly. But the real subject of the duty, he thought, bail been pow c.fully and fluty stated by his lion. friend (Mr. CI retry) near After some fin ther observations firm Mi. Dome nud Sir C. Long, the hews divided.-1 he numbeit were—for the previous question, 72—Fur the motion 50.—The motiou was of course lost. Mr. WILLIAMS afterwards obtained leave to bring in a bill to regulate forty-shilling freehold voters, ill certain boroughs and cities. Mr. SCARLETT concluded n long and able exposition us the present state of the poor laws,l)y moving the second reading of hi- bill for amending those laws. Sir R. WILSON declared bit decided opposition to the measure proposed by his Lon. I. lend, o bich consideted as gross violation of the rights of the poor, nod wliii h, be contended, could not by possibility be adopted in the pre sent situation of the poor of this country. They at present, though noxious to [dill au holiest livelihood, could not get employ. We had by our political measures, deprived the poor of those resources which they could have derived from their industry, and haviog done an, hating deprived thew of the power of obtaining the means of lire themselves, they had a right to look for hose memo from the more fm tenure port of their fellow-creatures, who bail the power of dispensing them. He molested against this measure, as an invasion of the statute of F.141:1 eth, tiniest IQ considered as the Wages Charm of toe lily.srties of the pour; nod, es such, lie would defend that statute on their behalf. lion. member next proceeded to comment on the inarria,e clunse, aid con. tended, tort the inevitable elfricis of men a claufe must he to destroy all our iiistiiiii toils, and to °verbal' till our enacted In geoid the elrio ity mod 'lariats of the lower orders. Ile concluded by derliii hi-, that till be saw every possible mode of retrenchment and economy uilopied in the penile expenditure, he never would consent to adopt the measure of his hon. friend. Mr. F. LEl{ IS strongly supported the second reading of the bill. Mr. BEN ETT (of Wilts) did not consider the present poor laws as defective—the fault rested in their adminis tration. To ()velvet or alter them in the Ill:11111er proposed would, in his opinion, prove dessruclive to numbers of the poor. As to the increase of population, he could not agree that, genet ally speaking', that could be an till. —lt might, perhaps, be au evil et the present moment, owing, to the slate of the COUlllvy ; hot whilst we were a couutty importing ptovisiotio, aunt whilst we had lands uncultivated to tits exteitt of Xi millions of acres, would any one say we had an excess of population i He should feel it his duty to oppose this bill in every stage. Mr. iIARBOItH suppoi lel the hill. The Marquis of LONDON EItRY would suggest to Me turnout:role and Icained gentientan that he shotild withdraw his motion for the present, and 411011111 get his additional clauses primed, in order that the house might look at his ineasitie rub a whole, and then fix as eat ly a day as possible for the Wither consideration of the sob ject. Mr. CALCRAFT concurred with what had fallen from the noble mat 'lois. lie thought that it would be beater for his lion. and trained Iciend to take the debate on the measure at some intuit+ singe, alter the bill had been re-prated. Mr. SCARLETI said that he should have no objection to go into the conumitee inala»ter, it lie had had Lis chows ready. One of those to which he hail alluded he had prepared contemporaneously tilt It his hilt ; bet the other clauses ''u aunt eunfess litat he had not ready, nor could lie get ready vs ithotit a day of leisure to hint 'elf. If the house would allow him to take the second trading now, lie should he prepared to propose his clauses to the com mittee oh Monday next. MvlttripoLlS ROARS CRIPPS supported the motion. Mr. DENISON opposed the motion. Mr. J. SM iTH was ill favour of it. 31r. 1110 LIME SUMNER was against the bill. Sir EDWARD 11.1SKICIIIILLL expressed a similar opinion. Mr. W. WILLIAMS di I not think the bill calculated to accomplish its object ; he must therefore oppose it. Sir E. HARVEY opposed the motion. Sir JOHN SI:HRH...HT praised the exertions of the committee from which the bill emanated. Mr. LALCRAFT mu ved that it be committed this day erre months. The House then divided—For the .ntruediate re-com mitment, 33 I Against 31...--The Bill was tuereloru lost. THE NATIONAL REGISTER The othei order,. of the day having been disposed of, the licUbeatijonrued. FRIDAY, MAY 23. The Freeholders' Voters bill was read a first time. — Ordered to be read a second time on Monday week. A bill to enable justices of the peace to act out of their own county, was brought in and lead a first time. Ordered to he read a second lime on Monday. Mr. LITTLETON obtained leave to withdraw the Church Briefs bill for the present session. Mr. Alderman WOOD presented the report of the London Bridge committee. Sir W. iuwris availed himself of the earliest oppor tunity to enter his protest egaitist this report. It recom mended the building a new bridge, an expense of 70d,0001. and that he considered such expenditure would be most extravagant. Mr. Alderman WOOD defended the report. After a hat had just passed, lie should expect to find the bun. hart. the sturdy advocate of economy on all future occa sions, and that would present trine in a new point of view. —The committee had consisted of 49 members, and be believed the hon. bort. stood atone when lie placed him self In opposition to the report. It said nothing of an expense of 700,(()01.; the report stated, that a new bridge would lie better than the old one; and if a new bridge were butt, although the public would be benefited by it, none of its money would be wanted far the purpose. Report ordered to be printed. • ORPHANS' FLIND.—Sir W. CURTIS asked whether an hon. member intended to propose any committee respect ing the orphans' fund this session. Mr. H. SUM N ER replied, that he had no such intention, owing to the lateness of the session; but lie did not know why the hon. bait. shou'd so particularly identify himself with the question; it was the court of aldermen that was interested in it, and the lion. baronet had acknowledged himself the servaat of the court. Mr. Alderman WOOD rose, but The SPEAKER reminded him that there was no fines tion before the house.—The conversation accordingly dropped lite house at its rising was ordered to adjourn to Mon day next. A petition was presented from Birmingham against the poor laws amendment bill. The Irish stamps bill went (brought a committee.—Re port on Monday. The second reading of the audit of public accounts bill was ordered for IVerloesday. Mr. W. COURTENAV brought in a bill to regnlate the sale of trust estates.—Read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Monday. Mi. G. BENNETT presented a petition from a gentle man named Trimmer, in Wilishite, complaining that a slate guar ry had been rented by the crown to Mr. Ten nant, the petitioner having previously bid for it. Mr. Alderman WOOD o b served, such was the present slate of oils finances, Mat this matter ought to be sti icily inquired into, wish the view of protecting the public interest.--Petition ordered to be printed. A message trout Lite lords announced that their lordships had agreed to the Lan Brink Drainage bill, and the Otampound Disfranchisement bill, with amendments. Lord Al (ETON called the attention of the house to the Grampound Disfranchisement hill. with amendments, whit it hail conic from the lords, nestling the concurrence of the house; and he moved that the amendments be now cad. Load J. RUSSELL thought it would be better at once to name that the awenduu•uls of the lords be taken int o consideration on 11 ettnesday next. lie added, that he was 1)1E4411A to move that the house agree to those amendments. (Hear.) WYNN oltscreed,that it would be adviceable at the same time to propose some regulation for the con• ducting of the elections of the two additional members fob Yoiß•hin e. Leitit LONDONDERRY hoped the lion, member would pause b. lore he pet ses ered w the proposing of such regu lations as part of the present measure, for he feared that the agitation of them might occupy so much time as to endanger the loss of the bill. (Hear.) Inadequate as was the hill, he was epprelti usive that, by such course of proceeding, the measure weill.l be lost. Amendments ot dered to be taken into consideration on Wednesday next. Mr. HUME presented a petition from Mr. Thorpe, late a judge at Sierra Leone, complaining of Lis ii ianrissiom, in consequence of being the medium of precerrine , char gee against Governor Maxwell. Th e petitioner had sustained great losse► in consequence of having abandoned his pro fession to serve the govei Immo, end of being relitsed inquiry and redress. Ole. WARRE observed, that there was no foundation fur the charges against Governor Maxwell. Mr. CiOULLIU RN said he should slut avail himself of circumstances within his knowledge to aggravate the situation of the petitioner. Mr. HUME regretted that the Colonial Secretary should not have eidesed into seine explanation. The petitioner was unaware of the cause of his dismissal, after haring been engaged in the government for 14 years et least the petitioner ,rated as much. Mr. HUTCHINSON expressed himself In similar tern's; the petitioner was anxious to 11111111V0 the stigma from his character.—Petition lead, and ordered to be pi inted. CRIMINAL LAN's. —Sir• J. MACINTOSH presented the repot of the forgery punishment bill. Hu then utiset ved, teat'L•itt members had expressed their opinion of the pu itisliment death fur forgery; and amongst them sere ' ' smile of the most distinguished and enlightened merchants. He now rose to spew his reference to the opinions of otheta, by the amendments which he was about to pro po►e. He hall already made considerable sacrifice. yr his own opinions, in older not to stiffer them to stand in the way of those ameliorations of the criminal law which lie was desirous of accomplishing. The amendments which lie should propose were respecting the forgery of wills, mairiage registers, and transfets of stuck, and to exempt them front the operation of the bill. The first autendatieut on the report having been pro posed, Mr. CRIPPS thought the forgery of country notes ought to be exempted from the operation of the bill. Hank when forged, were trumped ; but it' country notes west lunged, the ci edit and stability of the country uric at stake. 'ill J. MACINTOSH could not acquiewe in the sup grhiloos of the hon. meuiber. Ali. GitENVELL ugetiAl nith what kat fallen from Mr. Crippa. He did not sec why bank note forgeries should be exempted. Mi. J. MARTIN said he should support the bill, if the punielinient were made transportation for life. Mr. BEN N E'rf observed, that transportation iti many instances operated as a bounty on crime; it was, in fact, generally considered as no punishment at all. Mr. BARING remarked, that if there were no severer punishment to be proposed than that of transportation, lie should oppose the bill ; lie agreed on what had been stated, that it was, in fact, no punishment at all. Mr. J. SMITH stated, that the punishment ought to lie strictly defined and iigorously adhered to ; no judge could desire to have discretionary power lodged in his hands. After some remarks from Mr. Lockhart, the proposition for omitting the word " wills" was agreed tn. Sir J . M Aceywell then propused the exception of marriage registers. Amendment agreed to, as was the nest for omitting the violas respecting forgeries of transfer of stock. Sir J. MACINTOSH then proposed words to follow imprisonment, "for a relied of not less than three years, and not exceeding fourteen yeers." Mr. BARING should not desire the bill to pass, if "three years" wets retained, be was for naming the larger period positively, " fourteen years' hard labour." To have the lets period would be to diunWsli the terror of the offence. Dr.LUSHINGTON thought the punishment of forgery ought to be most severe, and it ought to be positive—not less than ten Yeats' imprisonment and hard labour. He would propose such amendment, which was agreed to. Sir J. MACINTOSH, at the .equest of a learned lord, proposed that Scotland be exempted from the operation of tills bill. Mr. CRI PPS could not consent to let this bill go forth to the country without the words," to exempt promissory notes, &c. floe) the bill." The SPEAKER said, the bill had been gone through— the house could not go back ; the proposed aniroduient bight be urged in a future stage of the bill. Mr. MABERLY observed, thaf if the amendment was not introduced, the man would be a mailman who should forge bank notes with the probability of being hanged, when lie might forge country notes without the possibility of being executed. It would operate as a premium on the forgery of country notes. Several members desired the amendment to be put, bat the Speaker said it could be regularly proposed on the third reading. Additional clanse agreed to, and bill ordered to be re committed, to 'fiord opportunity for the proposing of Mr. Cripps anwnihnent. AllOgY ESTI M ATES.—The house afterwards went into a committee of supply, to which committee the remaining army estimates were referred. Lind PALMERSTON brought them forward. Ile proposed that there be granted 1,10.1,0001. for the army extraordinaiies. Mr. HUME proposed to reduce the vote by 36,0001. Upon this amendment a long conversation followed, and the lion. member consented to withdraw his amendment, to make way for one of Mr. BENN El 'Vs, elm proposed to reduce the aunt of 1,000,0001. to nir4:ool. Upon this amendment the committee divided, when the numbers were—For the amendment, 3't—.Against it, 84. The next resolution proposed was the RUM of 401,5651. for the Commissar rat. Mr. MABEttLY expressed that this department should undergo revision. Mr. HUME said that from 1816 to 1820 the expences of that department brit been al a,OOOl. and the yearly charges of the establishment amounted to 52,7711. For ISIS the whole expellees of the commissariat in Great Britain had been 301,0001. Tina year it was 401,0001. The addition of the storekeeper's expenses would, perhaps, account for the difference. But after allowing for that, there would not be one .shilling of reduction of the expellees of ISIS. The whole number of eommiasatiee in 1813, a time of war we: 300. By the returns cn the table, it ap peared that there were still 230, when the number of ;nee to be atipplied was reduced to one third. Mr. !terries had 1,2i'01. a year. This was a most extravagant pension for the few years lie had been commissary general, after having previcesly been private secretary to Mr. Percival. Another pension to which he objected as, 1,1001. to Mr. Trotter, who had been cummirsary general in 1808, and raised the expetices of the establishment in a few years to 4,0001. a year more than lie had found them. Mr. ARBUTIINoT said, that lie could assure the com mittee that it was impossible to re:elect the business of the department with a smaller timelier of commissaries. '1 lie. number had been reduced too low in Isle; but tho protests from various stations made it necessary to iu crease it again to what it was at pi eseni. Mr. It. WARD justified the expences of the store keepers depaitment. The annual charge was 45,0001. and far Alus a sum of's,ooo,oettl. was administered. Mi. H. q. BEN NET protested against the pension to Mr. II en lea. Active commis:Jai ier..general who bad been engaged by night and by day in the severe exertious of war had retired with 4004. 50A. or 6001. a year. Mr• Berries, whose services had been rendered ill a warm well-carpeted room, with his pen in his baud and his ink. stand betore Trim, received I,nool. it year. Colonel DAVIES said, that he should content himself wills moving a reduction of 0,2351, limn the grain then before the house. Cutout! DAVIES said lie would withdraw his amend. meld, and substitute in its stead another, calling on the house to reduce the grant by only 1,2381. Mr. N. CALVERT observed, that, without entering into the propriety or impropriety ot this amuudweut, he was iueliue d to auppoi t any general redaction of so much per cent, ou the catenates, add to leave the disposal of the sum to the responsibility of government. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the com mittee divided, when there appeared for the amendineut, 40—against it, 59—Majority :tisiest it, 49. On our retitle to the gallery we found Mr. P Moore, moving that the chairman do report progress, and ask leave to sit again, ou the ground that the Yule Weil before it involved constitotiouftl questions too important to be discussed at that late hour of the cackling, The question was agreed to after a short eueversation in which Colonel Davies k Mt. Rennet. and Mr. Arbuthuot took a share. Mr. ARISUIHNOT, ill Um abidance of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, gave notice, that that right liouuerable gentleman would bring forward his budget on Friday next. The other order. of the day U1..f4 dtepuseti of and tLc butaio adjutnued at out o'clock.