The National Register. — London, England, 1822-06-16 00:00:00

Chancellor of the Exchequer would give up the whole of the tax. Mr. D. GILBERT said the question concerned the whole kingdum, not Cornwall alone. Feeling grateful for the conceit- Mons made by the Chancellor of the Exchequer—perhaps he bad made concessions ample enough—(cries urn°, no) —he was concerned that this concession was left so incomplete. He la. mented that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had left him cause of complaint in this instance.—Judging from the quantities cured iu Cornwall, the proposed modification would amount, as a tax, to 40,0001. in that county alone. Ile trusted that the Chancellor of the Exchequer would propose the reduction of the 2s. as it would be most useful ; but if the proposition did not come from that quarter—if it came from any other member, he should resist the reduction. Mr. TRAMAYN E was persuaded that the 2s. duty would be. moat injurious to the trade, trod he saw no way out of the difficulty, but by abandoning such remainder of the tax. Sir AI. W. RIDLEY said, that the partial repeal would effect more injury than relief. He also spoke of the injurious tendency of the proposed regulations regarding glass bottle ma • nufacturers. He trusted they too would not be persevered in. Sir H. VIVIAN Was persuaded that the Chancellor of the Exchequer was not aware of the vast extent of mischief that would result !corn continuing • part of the tax. lie hoped it would be given up altogether. Mr.bRIGHT also spoke against the partial repeal of the salt tax. Ile contended that here they had an instance of the thoughtless mode of taking of the taxes. It was removing the burden from some, and placing it on the shoulders of others. Lord A. iIAIIILTOIk should reserve himself till theßill was introduced ; but he was surprised that, proceeding on the articles of union, Scotland was not to be exempted from the 2s. tax. lle was for the abandonment of the whole tax. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that pro ceeding on the act of union, it was his intention that Scotch salt should be exempt from duty. With respect to Ireland, he should propose modifications; 2s. on white salt, and Is. 6d. on rock. He was not disposed to remit—but still he thought the regulations were susceptible of some alleviations. Mr. CALCRAFT observed that the right lion. gent. had not involved himself in difficulties from a hasty reduction of taxes, but (ro•e the hasty imposition of a new salt tax on Ireland.— The retention of a partial tax was surrounded with difficulties. As to the boon to Scotland, it was good as far as it went ; but the Scotch fisheries used British salt. It would be better at once to give lip the paltry remnant of the tax. Mr. 111:ME likewise spoke against retaining the 2s. tax, and said another class, besides those already mentioned, would be injured by it, namely, the bleachers. Mr. W ODEHOUSE condemned the continuation of the tax. Sir J. NEWPORT said, the tax as proposed to be continued would be very serious in its operation iu Ireland. Mr. CARTWRIGHT thought such was the sensation of the country, that it would be better to repeal the tax altogether; to lie enabled to do this, it would be better to suspend the inten tion of repealing half the leather tax, which lie understood would make no changes in the price of leather. Mr. W. Smith, Mr. H. Hutchinson, Sir I. Collin, and Mr. Curwen, also spoke in favour of the whole repeal. Mr. T. WILSON said, he was not prepared to support the whole repeal, except they would show bow the deciency was to be replaced. He was not for repealing taxes, except it was proved how they could be replaced. Mr. LEICESTER supported the total rapeal. Mr. V. FITZGERALD trusted that Ireland would not be burdened with this tax, for it would be the greatest injury to her sinking trade. Sir R. FERGUSON spoke of the small amount of the salt duty collected from the Scotch fisheries. It was about 14,0001. it did not pay the officers.—Petition brought up and reed. Mr. G. BENNET moved, that the Alehouse Licensing Bill be recommitted, and that all who attend the committee have ♦vices.—Agreed to. Petitions against the remaining salt tax were presented from Great Yarmouth, Arbroath, &c. Mr. MANNING presented a petition from the Corporation of Bridewell, praying to he heard by counsel against the Prisons UAW/ . Consolidation hill.—Ordered to lie on the table. Ald. BRIDGES presented a petition from watch and clock makers apinst the warehousing bill, which the petition strongly condemned as a most ruinous measure. Alderman WOOD also supported the petition. The peti tioners had already experienced great distress ; they had been shut out from the foreign trade, and this bill went to destroy the home trade. This petition came from Middlesex. Mr. WALLACE said, when the bill came forward, he should he prepared to defend it; now, he thought, was not the proper time to detain the House.—Petition ordered to lie printed. Mr. BIRCH presented a petition from Nottingham, com plaining of mock suctions. . . - . Mr. WESTERN rose to bring forward his motion on the subject of the currency. He saw what calamitous results had followed the bill changing the currency, and be could not neg lect his duty as far as not to bring the subject before the House. He did nut intend, in his complaints, to arraign the government ; bis hon. friends had supported, if not originated it ; but an there was no infalliability, the ablest men might at times commit eggregious errors. There never was a more ca lamitous measure. Statesmen had never committed a greater error. All the dillieulties of the country resulted from that fatal measure. There were permament evils, such as the poor rates and laws, but they had continued fur years. The country Lod thriven and prospered under them, and would have pros pered yet but for such bill. It operated injuriously on all classes—the manufacturer and the agriculturist--on all except the fundholder and the public annuitant ; sad if this were true, PRA lie not right in calling that act a most calamitous meauru It affected the industry of the country, ■nd it was calculated to endanger property. It operated injuriously on all closes of the community; the industry of all was affected by it. If that diminished the currency one half, his income, that had been 5001. was reduced to 2501.; but if the value of the currency was raised one half, the operation was in a contrary direction. —From such operation the country had suffered ; all contracts Lad been ruinously affected by the Bill. The raising of the value of money, different from the lowering of the value of money, was of most destructive operation. He did not nay that the ruin was limited to the agriculturist;—it equally affected the trader and the merchant ; it lowered the price of stock.— When the means of raising tummy where thereby reduced, lie could sot fulfil the contracts entered into under a flifferent state of the currency ; and to raise the value of the currency, wan to advance all the burdens oldie country above all the taxes.— was astonished that this subject had been viewed so indif• fereutly. It appeared as if an chance of 10, 15, or 20 per cent. of our unparalleled taxation were es nothing. The im pietist. addition to the public burdens ought to have been first considered ; but such consideration's were neglected, and the fatal bill wss passed. The hun. gent. coneleded by moving for the ilipimitithielet of a committee to enquire into the effect whieb the act of lulp, fur the resumptiun of cash payments by the THE NATIONAL REGISTER Bank, produced on the manufacturing and commercial interests of the country. Mr. lICSKISSON replied, at considerable length, to the ar gumeut% of the Member for Essex, which he said were founded on a false theory. That hon. gentleman bad argued, that high prices were a proof of the prosperity of the couutry, and that times of famine were those of national happiness. He denied such a position, and particularly cited the slate of the country in 1812, when wheat was at the moderate price of 1255. a quarter, when the poor could not get bread, and when all our manufacturing districts were in a slate of confusion, and almost of rebellion ; yet according to the hon. In mimes opinion and doctrine, this was the moment of highest prosperity for the country, because corn was at the enormous price of 1255. a quarter. Ile condemned the hon. gentleman's proposition altogether, and moved, as an amendment, •• That this house will nut alter the standard of gold or silver iu fineness, weight, or denomination. Lord A. HAMILTON was not linguine as to the adoption of any remedy ; still the pressure of the evil was so great, that he was willing to take every chance ; and he should therefore support the motion of the honourable member for Essex. The s 3larquis of LONDONDERRY rose amid loud cries of " Adjourn.' If the house was disposed to adjourn (the noble lord said) it would be better to adjourn at once ; at the same time he could have thought it expedient lo get through the debate if possible, as there might be mischief in allowing it Ur be supposed even for an hour, that there was any probability of the motion bring carried. The noble Marquis concluded by declaring that he saw no cause whatever made out for going into the proposed examination. (Cries of "Go on, go on.") Mr. BROUGIIIA3I felt with the noble lord as to the expedi ency of concluding the debate, but doubted how far such a course was practicable under the amendment moved by the right lion. gentleman (Mr. lluskisson.) If the right hon. gentleman would withdraw that admenctment, he (Mr. Brougham) should, at the hazard of sitting something later than usual (and the house seemed very squeamish now about sitting a little longer than usual), be inclined to conclude the debate without adjourn. went ; if not he thought it would be better to adjourn. Mr. 11. G. BEN ETT suggested that the question should be adjourned to Wednesday. Mr. BROUGHAM said, that 'be motion of Sir T. Lethbridge on the subject of taxation. would interfere. After some remarks from Lord Londonitery, Sir T.Letlibridge and the Attorney-General, the adjourment or Mr. Western's motion to Wednesday was agreed to.—Adjourued. E.UNESDAY, JUNE Mr. NOLAN postponed till the 27th inst. his motion for leave to bring in a bill to amend the poor laws. Should be succeed in his motion, lie should not press the bill forward this session, but should suffer it to continue before the house and the country for consideration. Mr. CAL% ERT moved for various returns of tobacco that had paid duty, and what bad been seized, since Itso9. Ordered. Mr. GRENFELL gave notice, that when the Naval and Mi litary Bill was brought forward, lie should oppoie that clause which proposed to give remuneration to the Bulk for their trouble. The remuneration was to he 3091. on each, 1,000,0001. The report of the Assessed Taxes Bill was presented. Sir J. NEWPORT obtained leave to bring iu a Bill on the subject of the Grand Jury Presentments. Mr. R. MARTIN obtained leave to bring in a bill to regu late the office of coroner of Ireland. Mr. COKE presented a petition front Halstead, Norfolk, complaining of agricultural distress, and praying for reform. Mr. T. F. BUXTON withdrew his motion respectiug the capture of the Regain by Mr. Ogilvie. NORTIIAMI•ToM COUNTY PLTITION.—Lord ALTHORP pre sented a petition from the County of Northampton, complaining of agricultural distress ; of the pressure of taaatiou ; and prey ing for a reform. The petition had been agreed to at a county meeting, which, however, the Sheriff refused to call.. He agreed in the allegations of the petition. The ministers, although they reduced some of the taxes, still left such rem -1111U1t811.4 would require the retention of officers for the patronage. Mr. CARTWRIGHT said he should be against the reduction of taxes, except the reductions could be effected with national safety. Those that had been reduced, lie questioned much whether they would relieve agriculture. As to the conduct of the Sheriff, though the requisition was signed by 300 or 400 freeholders, there were none of the '• gentlemen" of the county amongst the requisitionists. Sir J. N EWPORT expressed his regret to hear such lan guage. Here were 400 freeholders, who had the right of re turning members, but had not the right, it appeared, of calling a county meeting. Was that correct / Mr. COKE said, it was suet country " gentlemen' • as the one opposite, that led the country into its present difficulties ; those " gentlemen" had supported the just 11111 necessary war;" and what they now suffered they merited. As to the $OO free holders, ho hoped they would not forget what had been uttered and that they would endeavour to be wore hos.ourably and in dependently arpresented. Mr. CARTWRIGHT declared that he had supported the ministers conscientiously, and that he thought the country had been saved by their conduct. lie considered himself as ho nourable and independent as the member opposite. Mr. LEICESTER condemned the conduct of the Sheriff.— Petition read-and ordered to be printed. ToBACCO TRAIE.—Lord BELGRA% E, in presenting • pe tition flout tobacco merchants of Chester, praying for the re duction of the duty, observed on the injuries that were sustained by the revenue in consequence of smuggling. According to his calculation the Chancellor of the Exchequer bad lost 25,0001. a year._______ Mr. 11. GURNEY supported the prayer of the petition. Mr. LUSIIINGTON said, in contradiction to what had been stated, that within the last year the smuggling of tobacco had diminished, and the duty on it increased. Sir J. NEWPORT replied, that he should like to have the accounts. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was persuaded that the smuggling trade was not w prosperous as it had been. The duty on some articles might be lowered, perhaps with ad vantage to the revenue ; but he did not think that would be the case with tobacco.—Petition brought up, read, and ordered to be printed. The vetoed report of the Holyhead Roads Committee was presented, and ordered to he printed. The Land Revenue fill (Ireland) WR4 read • second time. The committee on the Irish Constables Hill was postpuued till the 21st lust. Sir J. N l'A% PORT moved the 241 rending of the payment of Rents, Ireland. Bill. Ile wished the bd to stand user to be cum.itlered. It was • hill entirely pruapectise. It was nest r meant to apply to e•isting contracts.—lt wits agreed to be read • second time this day three mouths. Mr. It;. HENN ET ((served (bat the order (+film day be read fur the r,”ittil.ibtion OI Ilse debute (us cask pay Int-Mi.— Agreed so.— tau wutiuu and utucuUustut haYu,g heels (tact by the Speaker, 10 Mr. G. BENNET rose, and next moved that the ►esolatiosa of May 14, 1811, be read. They declared a one poond note and a shilling to be equal to a guinea. Having been read, he proceeded to speak in support of the motion of the hon. mem ber for Essex (Mr. Western). It was a question of great int purtance, and he approached it with reluctance. Had he ap proved of the bill originally, seeing what calamitous results had followed its enactments, be should not have shrunk trout manfully coming forward and Avowing what was now the case. Ile declared that they ought now to appoint a committee to in. quire into the operation of the act. The motitio had been ably brought forward, and he was astonished bow the noble lord and the right lion, gent. could patiently keep their seats and hear the statements of calamities that had been brought for. ward. Hut all these difficulties resulted front those fatal mea sures which began with putting off the public creditor, and proceeded with cheating the public debtor. To accomplish such things—to pass such a bill as was now complained of-- was reserved for his Majesty's ministers. What was the situ• stion of persons who had entered into contracts sine. 1813 T It was ruinous in the extreme. The contracts were now is fact nearly doubled. He was for the committee, to see whe ther something like a balance could not be struck, to malt. contracts nearer what they were intended to he when entered iuto. It was said that the parties entered into the contracts with the knowledge of the change that had taken place.—Sums might feel persuaded of it, but the public knew nothing about the matter, for the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the House had declared tbat there was no depreciation.—(Hear, bear.)--- The ministers names, who had passed such measures, ought to be as familiarto men's minds as household words." Mr. GURNEY spoke against the motion and the amendment. Mr. RICARDO trusted that no step would be adopted to affect the existing law regarding cash payments. He admitted that great difficulties had resulted from the efforts to return to sound principles of currency ; and he was not sorry that they had arisen; they would prevent that House from again so seriously affecting the currency. The bill of 1519 ought to be supported. Sir F. BURDETT said the present motion was calculated to be most useful. The debate must be beneficial, and be thought it was impossible for the House to separate without doing something to rescue the country from its difficulties. Many of the taxes, and a great proportion of the debt bad arisen under a depreciated currency ; and yet all those contracts were to be fulfilled with the altered currency. As such was the case, where was the wonder that difficulties amongst all the produc tive classes should have arisen? The bon. hart. contended the proposition of his lion. friend was most correct. Ile had made gold, corn, and labour his measure, and he knew of no other measure which could be adopted. As to the question being one of difficulty, be acknowledged it was so, but ministers, by their conduct, had got the country into difficulties, and they were bound to find a mode of relief. Mr. ATTWOOD attributed all the calamities of the country to the misconduct and errors of government. lie agreed with Lis bun. friend as to the necessity of inquiry, and therefore, if ou no other ground, he should support the motion. As to the amendment proposed by the right lion. gentleman, he must op pose it, WI it went to commit and pledge the House to a certain extent against any future consideration of the subject. The bon. member entered at length into a review of the subject, pointing out the evils arising from Mr. Peel's bill, and con• eluded by forcibly urging the adoption of Mr. Western's motion. Mr. Peel and the Marquis of Londonderry opposed the mo tion, and after Mr. Brougham had spoken at great length and in support of it, Mr. WESTERN rose amid cries of " question," and replied shortly. The galleiy was then cleared for a division, when there ap peared for the amendmeut 191--Against it 39—Majority 11:4. The House then adjourned at a quartet past three o'clock. TUURSDAY. JUNE 13. Mr. CHETWYND moved, that the Lords' Amendment to the Vagrant Laws' Bill, the principle of which maul to confine the operation of the Bill to England, he agreed to. They were read and agreed to. Sir E. KNATCHBULL presented two petitions from the hop-growers of Kent a,:ainst any alteration of the 64th Geo. 3, respecting the marking of hop sacks, pockets, No. After some remarks from Mr. Lushington, Mr. Calcraft, and Mr. Houck, who spoke against the required change of the act; and Mr. Curteis, who said the change was called for, as the act lied been founded on misrepresentations, and that Susses. hops were superior to those of Kent, the petitions were read and ordered to be printed. Mr. CCRTEIS then withdrew his motion on this subject ; hut next session he should bring forward the whole question. Mr. A BERCROMBIE postponed, front the 20th to the 25th inst. his motion respecting goverument officers, as connected with the public press of Scotland. Sir T. LETHBRIDGE withdrew, for the present session, his notice to move resolutions respecting agricultural taxation. The further consideration of the Stamp Duties Bill Report was postponed till Mouttiy. The Tonnage Duties Repeal Bill went through a committee. Report to-morrow. The report of the Committee on the Welsh coal act was read, agreed to, and bill ordered accordingly. Mr. 11LME tooted fur the Espouse of the Irish Record Commission, since 1810. Mr. Alderman WOOD rose to submit his promised motion respecting Ilchester jail. (Secretary) PEEL said the magistrates of Somerset had appointed a Committee to enquire into the conduct respecting the jail, and the propriety of reuniting it ; would it not there fore he injurious to press forward his motion, when enquiry was taking place. Mr. Dickinson and Mr. G. Senn* also wished the motion to be postponed fur the present. Mr. Alderman WOOD said, he could have no objection that of promoting complete Mr estigation.—He intended to move resolutions approving of all that the c iiiii utissioners had stated in their report, but he should comply with the wish of the House. He should early in the next at *611 , 11 bring forward the coutluot of the magistrates.--( Hear.) The notice of motion was then wholly withdrawn for the pre seat session. Lulu CO‘STAitt.i•S • 811.1.—Mr. BROUGHAM asked what would be the probable expence of carrying into execution the Irish Constables' Bill 1 Mr. Plunkett and Mr. Gott!burn replied that estimates could not he made out. Fuar FRUITS, LAND.--Mr. (;011.1.11:RN wished the Loos Baronet (Sir J. Ntwport), to put 0H bt elution on Otte uhjert. Mr. HUME said, if the motion were to be postponed, be trusted that the 10.0001. for the Unanl would not be required. Mr. C01:1,81:10 said, if any were taken, it would out) be a part. 3lotina postponed. ( rot cuhtilmativa see page 190.)