Star. — London, England, 1803-02-24 00:00:00

~' t~ the Aft took effeEt, the Commiffioners had re-' ceived from both there funds thq fum of 59a,5001. which would have been applied towards providing for the comforts, and maintaining and fopporting the fplendour and dignity of the Prince of Wales, had it not been made by that Mt liable to the dd. charge of his debts. Here the Right Hon. Gen tlemin read the account of the Commilfioners, in which were enumerated the feveral fums paid by the Conimiffioners ; from the whole of which it appeared, that an the sth of April, 1303, the fum of 13,0001. charged on the revenues of the Duchy 1 of Cornwall, would ceafe to be any longer pay able, and thofe revenues would be freed from that charge, and that the funs of 805,7501. which con flituted the whole of his debts with intereß, expels ces, &c. will be paid on the sth January, 1806, which will leave a balance in the hands of the Commiffioners of nearly tool. He then laid, that his Majetly having confidered the prefent fituation of the Prince, and the train in which his revenues had for eight years lag pail been placed fur the liquidation of his debts, did not think it unfit to call the fituation of his Royal Highnefs to the attentive confideration of Parliament. The Right Honourable Gentleman then begged the Houfe to recollea, that for the left eight years, (a fifth part of his life), the Prince had *finally been living in a comparative Rate of obfcurity. Was it poffible. he liked, that the Houfe of Commons could have in their contemplation, that his Royal Highnefs ftiould remain in that Rate four years longer ? Though the time had, from imperious •leircurattances, been originally fixed for 12 years, lie would not fuppofe that every individual had made up his mind to a& on this to the utmoß li mit, but that, on the contrary, al he had Rated before, be was convinced a wait majority of that Hoeft had conceived that the matter was Rill open to the future confideration of Parliament, to • great the Prince fuch relief as time and circum fiances might permit. Conceiving this to be the real Rate of the cafe, the propofition he had now -to fabinit to the confideration of the Houle was this , That his Royal Highnefs from the Ift of January, 1803, (hould be placed in the fame fltua lion and circurrsitances, as if the Aft of 1795 had not been paffed, and it was his intention to move, that a fum, not exceeding 60,0001. a year, be grant 'od to his Royal Highnefs till the expiration of the period fixed by that Aft for the payment of his • debts." When he Rated, that ninety years ago a Prince of Wales bad received from Parliament a fettled revenue of too,oool. that the Prince's royal grandfather had, fixty years ago, a fettled income affigned him by Parliament of i ta,oool. a year, he could hardly fuppofe that Houle would be of opinion, that in the year 1795, an income of 125,0001. a year to the prefent Heir Apparent, was more than equivalent to thole which had been grimed to his predeceffors in times fo far diftant &she had jug Rated. He afked the Houle, tithe day that which was looked upon to be moderate in 1795 was not fo now? He did not mean to alk say addition to the Cum, he did not mean that any migration or interruption Ibould take place in the 'Ueda or manner of liquidating the Prince's debts; ; he was only defirous that his Royal Highnefs fisanld be put in full poffeffion of what he would have bad long ago, bad not the moil prefhing and imperious eircuntftanees at that time required re . itriaions and regulations. He affured the Houfe, be was far from under-rating the value and impor atace aeronomy, but there certainly were cafes, in which rigid economy might dwindle into par famony ; and in the prefent cafe be had no doubt Mgt the Houle, while they kept their eye Readily fixed on economical principles, would never lole fight of the Rill more important principles c f jut. nee, and give to the fubjeft every liberal allow. amts, which he was certain its magnitude and con• lequence mutt be felt, by every one who heard him, fo effentially to call for. Is the Rate of the country, Paid he, at this moment, when we enjoy a Rate of profound peace, fuch as to doubt its power to do that, which was not deemed more than fufficient in the courfe of a molt expentive war? He begged the Houfe alto to recolle& the confiderable change which, (ince that period, had taken place in the value of money ; and though he did not by any means intend to make ufe of that argument for the ben..st of the Prince, it was fuch as mutt naturally weigh with the Haute, and de {creed their moil attentive confideration. An Hon. Member had silted, if this was meant as a stomprotnite for claims I He could afore the Route. with great truth. that no compromile had ewer been in his contemplation ; and that ifhe had ever heard of the petition of right, teeing fuch an application fanaioned by his bla;efly, this was a propofition which he would molt cordially and aealoufly fupport, towards maintaining the digni ty and fplendonr of the Prince of Wales. When he made life of the word dignity and fplendour. as attached to the fituation of his . Royal Highnefs, he did not intend to confine hintfelf to the means of outward thew and magnificence ; he did not al lude to the number or grandeur of his carriages, to the ellabliihment of - his houfehold. to his in stants. h.ries, and other outward appearances ; he wi(hed to extend his powers of dillinguifhing his high rank and Ration in the empire, by enabling him to befriend diftreffed merit, to encourage and reward dittingnifhed and eminent literary charac ters, and promote great undertakings; to make a dißinguinsed difplay of the exercife of that liorpi. Ctality for which the country was to juftly cele. rated, and of every thing which could flied a luare on the aaions, the mind. the manners, and the habits of the Prince, who is the prefent heir, and mar one day •be the future inheritor of the greateft Clown in the univerfe. He then moved— .. That hia Itleielty be enabled to grant, oat of tbe Confab dated rand, a him or fame not csorcd rig &pool. a year. for three years to be computed from sth Jar.. MI, for She pup. pan of enabling Ms korai MOM, tbd Prince of Wales to maintain the dignity of Ma MO runic" Colonel S expreffed his defire to have the amount of that pan of the debt ofhis Royal High nets, which had been difebarged, re-Rated by the Right Hon. Gentleman. • The CHANCELLOR of the Exceenr • a obferved, that dmdwinkslif! the debt difeharged to the sth of . 0 A . e. ... • • rated to no lets a fern Fly th , , • : " 1- "" ..4,. :. ere roxotiard m. be Inti 4 I e s': ‘ t it : • t .- • I,ocial. With refs& to IA - • • - \ the charge of the Commiflion for management, it might not be improper once more to ftate that it amounted to 6cool. The SOLICITOR GIINZIAL addreffed the Chair man to the following effea :—" Sir, In offering my fentiments to the Committee upon the propo !Won fubmitted to their confederation by my Right Hon. Friend, I feel, in common with them, the great importance of the fubjed, as well as the , dignity of the illuftrious perfonage to whom it relates. But although I ceafe to have the honour of being in the (crake of his Royal Highnefs the Prince of Wales, yeti have the cordial fatisfadion of retaining what to my mind is much more va luable, the confidence of his Royal Highnefs. In Rating to the Houfe the fentiments of the Prince of Wailes. I am &fired to exprefs, in the ftrongeft terms, his fincere and unfeigned gratitude to his Majefty, for the intereft be has been pleated to take in what regards the dignity and comforts of his Royal Hightiefs's lituation, evinced as it has been in the gracious Meffage which has been fent to this Houfe. lam alto &fired to Rate, in terms no left Rrong. that his Royal Highnefs fub mits with the utmoß chearfulnefs to the wifdom and juftice of the Houfe, which he is convinced will direa their proceedings in whatever refolntion they may adopt with refped to the prefent fubjed. I am convinced, and I truß every Gentleman who bean me will give me the fulleß credit for the Ratement, that tt has ever been the &It objea of the Prince to thew, in all inftances, and on all cm cafions, his fi ncere repel and duty for his country. Of his ardent defire to preferve, without the pof fibility of diminution, the harmony which fhould milt between him and his Royal Father, everyone is deeply convinced ; and he would forego every claim of right, rather than enter into a conteft,' the event of which, however fuccefsful, mnft be to his Royal Highnefs the fubjet of ferious regret. The Houf: will, I am fare, readily admit, from the Ratements which I have made, the propriety of the Prince's fentiments, and they will be able to appreciate how very jolt and dignified his ideas are on the prefent occafion, fince no doubt can be entertained of the legality of his right. For notwithltanding what has been thrown out this evening by an Honourable Gentleman on the diverfity of legal opinions, I feel no heitation in maintaining, that the claims of his Royal Highnefs were too firmly eftablithed to be fhaken by any opinion which might be brought for to invalidate them. lam free to allure the Committee, that I feared no refults from the profecution of the right, but thofe which might un fortunately lead to a difference between hisMajefty and his eldeß Son; and it was by that confident. tion that his Royal Highnefs was folely influenced. In adverting to the grounds for his Majefly's gra cious Meirage, I can difeover none but thofe pub- 1 lie grounds which have been fo ably and impar tially Rated by my Right Hon. Friend. It mug be obvious from their nature, and the candour with which they have been brought forward, that there are no other. There certainly has been no compromife, nor has any circumftance occurred which can warrant fuch a fuppofition. lam confident, Sir, that my Ratement will be confirmed by my Right Hon. Friend, when lat the Committee, that the intimation of the prefent meafure, hen communicated to his Royal High nefs, came altogether unexpeded : that no terms were attempted to be impeded upon him, and that he was left at full liberty, fhould he think proper, to profecute the juftice of his claim. In mention. ing the gratitude felt by the Prince of Wales, for the intereft which his Majelly takes in whatever re lates to him, I put it to en Houfe, whether there be any thing in allele feelings which does not tidied the higheß honour on his Royal Highnefs ? I have now, Sir, one word more to mention, unconneded with, and unauthorifed by the Prince. When this fabled was fubmitted lift Seflion to the confidera. tion of the Route. I then Rated, that however great the etpenees incurred by the Heir Apparent had been, it was impoffible for any perfon to fay, that they had fallen upon the public. Let me now repeat that Ratement, and I do it with greater confidence as it is founded in fad. Let thole who are inclined to doubt it, confider the material diffe rence which exists between the prefent and former times, between the lituation of his Royal Highnefs and that of his illuftrious predeceffors ! Let them compare the prefent with the paft ; let them form a fair etiolate between the difference of expendi ture arifing from the great alteration in the value of money and the price of provifions ! If the Hon. Gentleman will take the trouble of entering into a comparative review and calculation of dude (objets, he will find a fatiafetory apology for the debts contrail ed by the Prince of Wales. Having, Sir, made there obfervations, and impreffed with a lively fade of the fplendour which fhould charac. terife the dignified lituation of the Heir Apparent, I feel that they will juftify me in the Vote which I have to give for the propofition fubmitted to the Committee by my Right Hon. Friend." Sir RALPH MIL/MI/11k confidered the fpeech of , the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and of the Learn ed Gentleman who fpnke tall, unanfwerable in every point of view. He thought the dignity of , the country was implicated in the queftion, which ought to be carried in the affirmative. It was known to all, that the Prince of Wales had lived for feveral years in a Rate of obfcurity, and he' mated the Houfe would, by their proceedings, give to him that contlitutional dignity which should be fupported. His Royal Highnefs bad aded fairly and honourably in giving up part of his income for the difcharge of his debts ; and he hiould not, for his own part, fern* to fay, that the film propofed by the Right Hon. Gentleman to the Committee was too little. The motion had' his hearty concurrence. Mr. HA aft nom erpreffed his convidion, that die great diminution which h id taken place, for eight years, of the Prince's income, entitled him to the , good-will of the Hoare although much of the I debt incaried had been difcharged, tbeit'ftill re mained 235.c.001. to be paid off; and he could have waked to have feen a detail of the manse, in which the revenon of the Duchy of Corowattl had been defpaed of during the minority of his Royal Highnefs lit conldlow wised to haw had the rums applied to his education ' s; well as *lre eng ployed in the public fer Ace, clearly and diftinaly alkertained. He thought that what had been given to the Civil Lift fro* thefe revenues, fhould be returned by the Civil Lift. It was out of his fin- cere regard to his Royal Highnefs he would not have it go forth to the public, that he had con trailed new debts, or that he had been pledged by a former fettlement. In his mind, what had been taken out of the ellate of a minor fhould be ac counted for to him ; and with refped to any dif ference or ill• will between the Prince and his Royal Father, he felt no ferious apprehenlions on that fubjeft. Amicable fuits were no uncommon ar• rangements, and as the right was undoubted. he WAS defirous of following up the Right Hon. Gen tleman's propofition by another, hating the exaft diminution of the Prince's debts by the (urns ' applied from his income for that purpofe, as well as by a refolution to put him in full poffeffion of 'his income. _ [A few words pafed have between the Csaii ceu.oa of the Excites:ins' and Mr. HARRISON. with refped to the nature of the debentures held by the creditors of the Prince of Wales.] Lord CASTLIREAGH Paid, that after the very fatisfailory fiatement which had been made by his Right Hon. Friend, he fhould offer but a few words to the Committee. He entertained no doubt whatever of the propriety of the propofition ; ! but an opinion teemed to &ft, that the right of his Royal Highnefs was fo indifputable, that the ' interference of Parliament became neceffary.— When the fubjed came before Parliament laft Set ' Pion, he did lament, that Parliament, fo far friim polteffing the power of interfering, was, on the contrary, linable to interpofe with effed, from the legal nature of the quieftion. The Prince wifhed, that whatever his embarraffments were, they might be difcharged out of his imme . ; and he alfo hoped to be liberated from a claim, the pro , fecution of which might lead to a difference with his Royal Father. Rather than IA fuch an iffue, he was ready to refign every thing. The Houfe had, in fait, no choice but that of waving a deci lion on a claim which was acknowledged, on all hands, to be one of a legal nature. - It was not difficult to conceive the motives which had adu ated his Majefty to bring the gluelike% before Par liament. He could entertain no apprehenfioit With retina to the petition of right; and, as the quef tion was always underfiood to be one which was to be referred to this Houle, the prefect moment appeared to his Majefty the bell for the expreffion of his feelings, and the adJunment of the Prince's eilabliffiment. Lord Caftlereagh went over five. ral of the grounds taken by the Chancellor of the Exchequer : and concluded with *Wein& that as the fubjeft was reduced to the fttop4 confidera tion, whether the petition of right &Wild be pref. ed upon the Prince, or he Mould be left to his own fentiments, and the gratification of his own feelings, the Committee could, with perfed feisty, interfere, and vote for the motion of pus Right Hon. Friend, Mr. MARILISON explained. 1 Mr. SIMLIDAN (aid, he would have willed to abftain from troubling the Houle. but that flume points were abfolutely neceffary to be explained.— : He was ready to admit the arguments employed t in fupport of the propofition by the Right Hop. . and Learned Gentleman oppofite to him; the pro ; pofition itfelf was equally fatisfadory to thofe t who wUhed to replace his Royal Highnefs in his Conflitutional fplendour and to thole who watch. . ed with a jealous eye th e expenditure of the public money. There was, however, one thing which . did not appear to be admitted, and which he was particularly defirops fhould be Rated ; it was not admitted that the Prince of Wales, fo far from burdening the Public, had on the contrary made a confiderable facrifice to them ; this certainly was the fax, and it fhould be known to the country.— , He was himfelf a real friend to the comforts and fplendour which his Royal Highnefs ought to en joy, but he was at the fame time a greater friend to his honour and character. Tle Prince came forward for the third time. Upon the fief appli. cation, notwithllanding the arguments employed by the learned and the unlearned, notwithfland ing the vail fund of legal and hiftorical erudition which was difplayed, nothing was afcertained with regard to the Petition of Right. Full, it was to he prefented to the Lord Chancellor, then it was difcovered that the Chancellor was not the proper perfon, but that the Petition thould be given to Lord Pelham. Afterwards it was to be laid before the Chancellor, and then it came into this Houle.— An affurance had been given. that there was no compromife whatever, and that the Prince was at liberty to profeeute his fuit : but,.for his own part, he gave his fitppon to the propofitioa, becaufe the Prince did not come forward as a claimant upon the public, but alerting a jolt demand. As to the idea of a compromife, there appeared in that nothing of a difgraceful kind. An adjuftment, by way of - companion, when no other mode could be deviled, was fair and fatidadory. The meafure now adopted was, without doubt, the florteft ; for had the fuit gone on. it would have been fpun out to a molt tedious and infufferable length. The late Chancellor kept the papers in his pocket for fix years before he could make up his opinion, and if the fuit had been carried on, it mull, no doubt, have partaken of that glorious uncertainty which was one of the excellencies of the Britith Laws. If he conceived the ground rightly, upon which the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer formed his motion, it was to be underflood that the (urn was to be appropriated in immediately en abling his Royal Hightiefs to refume the Rate and fplendour appropriate to his high rank. He wilhed to know whether the Houle was to uaderliand this to be the real GA ? If to, he lhould have much greater pleafure in fupporting the motion; but he begged to know from the Right Hon. Gentleman if he was warranted from any authentic quarter, ' to give this affitrance to the Houfe ? becanfe if they voted the fens under Inch an idea. and that I afterwards It &told be found that the refumptioo of o:at Rate, on the part of the'Prince, was to be fill p rotra cted, much dikontent and ditappoint ment mull be the natural confequence. Nor could that Minifter be fairly raid to confide the honour I of the Prince, in deceiving the Houle into a vote, tender an idea that by liteb vote his Royal High- I i nefs was to be immediately reflored to his tank h. life, when in reality be mutt remain under embar rafrments that mull Gill longer oblige him to re. main in obfcurity. But in all events, whatever the raft was, it ought to be fully underftood. An Hon. Member had this night moved for the read. ing of fome patfages in his Majefty's Meffage on a former occafion, refpefting the Prince's affairs, iu order to prove that the Prince was thereby pre. eluded from any further claims upon Parliament, becaufe he was thereby conflrudively precluded from contracting any new debts. But although the letter of chore pelages certainly did not exprefsly refirift his Royal Highnefs fromcontraitling debts, yet he was ready to allow his Royal Highnefs was las firmly bound in honour upon that point to ab. Rain from contrafting new debts, after the vot e then paired, as if bound thereto by a condition, worded in the fliongeff manner: but the fait wa s , his Royal Highnefs had contrafted no new debts ; nor had he made any claims on the public for pay. went of his former debts; for finely the fubmittal to exceffive reftraints upon his own income for the liquidation of his Royal Highnefs's debts, was not to be termed a burthen on the country for that purpofe. But though his Royal Highnefs bad contrafted no new debts, yet it was to be recol. kited, that if thole arrangements, made with a former Chancellor of the Excheqner, for the li. quidation of his debts, had failed in Tome inftancv of their intended effed, the Prince feeling hiafelf bound in honour to make good the deficiency,wa s Rill embarraffed, under the fenfe of that honoura ble obligation. On the former occafion, a turn of 600p0007. was voted in advance to the Prince for the liquidation of his debts, to be veßed in the hands of Truflees ; but when by public advertife ment all the claims of his Royal Highnefs were called in, the aggregate was found to amou nt to 650,000 i. confequently there was a deficit of go,oool. It was not thought advifable to make a further application to Parliament : but the Com miflioners, to fupply the deficiency, prepofed to the Creditors an abatement on their refpeltive debts, of no lets than to per cent. This deduction was not upon claims (*neutered as any ways frau. dulent or overcharged, but upon debts fairly Riled and admitted to be pit and reafonabk. This, he contended, was, in dire& terms, cornpromifing the honour of his Royal Highnefs; it was not pay. irig, but compounding his debts; and his Royal Highners, he Paid, had authorifed him to declare, on a former oecafion, that he bed much rather again apply to Parliament, and folic* a reftria tion of one year more upon his income, in order to pay in NI every fair claim againft him, than fubma to a meafure which his Royal Highs& conceived to be Co degrading to his honour; nor could be conceive that honour retisfied until he had paid the tan farthing. Ifthen his 4oyal High. nets was Rill to remain burthened with chime, which he conceived himfelf bound, es debee d honour, to difcharge. it was obvious the Ala sod Itt propored to the Houk , of enabling his Highnea innnediatedly to refume his rank mill propri*efplendour, would not be otsalood by utte propeed. Itii was raid be was,* of this vote, to be reamed to his tolle lls = but not yet to refume his rank and flooss in name kt the circumftanpes be explained t? li g Hoofe, and forme definitive time meadow' at which an explanation, fo anxious and form* entertained by the nation, was really to be fildliked. The Cn•ncettoa of the EXClrellyelt 11111 Was extremely defirons the Hour; Moot ltY derßand the fubjed: and, to let the Hon. Member right, under fome mikon.ception he feemed to el% certain, be would now Rate, that the Cotnntiffion ers for enquiring into the affairs of his Royal Hiils nefs, of whom he had the honour to be one, attar very minute inveftlgation, found that the claims brought forward againft him amounted to 620,0001. but, for the parpofe of preparing agile* every pollible claim which had not yet come for ward, it was fuppofed that; in the fulleft latitude, 650,0001. would meet the whole of the claims, and every debt, the fairners and validity of which had been fully proved to the fati.faaioo of the C3mmillioners, had been fatisfaftorily difcharged. It did appear, however, to the Cornmiffioners, tit* the aggregate claim. coefiderably exceed6so t egoL and they, therefore, felt it neceffary to flat* that the debts greatly exceeded the Turn approp riated by Parliament for their liquidation. Some dedue tion_was undoubtedly made upon debts vrkielt appeared to be frauclqlently oyerchargedh bet tbp proportion of theft 'was by no means confiderabk. On many other claims there appeared to be pal. pabk overcharges, abe-e what the ankles would have been rated to men of ordinary rank, nogiqr prompt payment ; but confidering the rank tithe Prince, and that thole charges were made on st nalculation of interell upon a very long credit. air a very remote and uncertain payment, there ems taothing its them which appealed very eureafisa ble. Under all the eircumftences, the Cornsk boners tliought it advifable to Propofe'to the ow ditors in general (excepting only thole who hm claims for eateries or honfe-refits). a mode of li quidation, by ifitting to them payment for ;heft refpaaive claims in debentures of ROL each, heap in* intenft at 3 per cent. or it dattatUrtS of 901. for every hundred, bearing intere at 5 per cent. a mode of payment which, confidering that good book debts bear no littera, was by no moms did , advantageous. The claimants in generalaa and red the debentures at 901. ai 5 per cent. chore them for a long period. epectaating on a %Or& Lion, by no means unfe(Gble, that on the return 4 peace they would fell at a eonfulerable advance. Confidering then that the parties themfelves had acknowledged this mode of payment as full and fatisfattory, he Mould hope that hls Royal High. nefs, on duly easeutering thole cireamftancess would not feel his honour in any degree bound to farther payments of any kind on the grail! of there claims. With Teepee to the q Of ' the Hon. Gentleman, whether i f was meant disk immediately on pains the Dill now prorated. thy 'Prince of Wales was immediately to rams 1111 rank and Rate ? fie certainly did not son.* start fuck confequence wee iinundiately to toot place: But if it Gould be Mina to shin was defirable. the circuit:fiance' would arife (nos solo of cauks which would entitle his Royal INE%nft