The National Register. — London, England, 1816-03-17 00:00:00

vitnar vr. gr ez eet was 'Korot from the reign of Gem,* -( near. )—He was Most ready to aliow the splendid services 01 . the guards wherever tiny hail been engaged, but they had sprung from 3000. Reduce them to 3000 again; and he h a d soi doubt whenever they were again wanted they would he found to rise, and their services wen,el attain he us sple n did ~, they bad been. But the Noble Lord WWI 11111/0/440111' to reduce these troops, because the burthen in pens;ons %timid be greater thin the expellee of keeping them up. This was sit most singular mode of proceeding, that putting dowel our establishment would he more expensive than keeping it up.- - (lbrtr. Anse.) Then the Noble Lord said, what 511411 we do with the fine horses belonging, to the guards? They were, in deed, fine horses; but surely they would sell for something. The Noble Lord said, it Sias impossible to do without the se lionschold troops for the service of the metropolis. No doubt , if 10,000 of these troops wire voted, they would be disposed The hank guard might he doubled, so might the soldiers at tending on the theatres, the °penthouse, the routs of tlr^ no bility, and other places of ninusement, where the inliitary now supplied the place of the cisil power; and he (Mr. Tierney ) did not mean to say they did not conduct themselves properly. These troops, the favourite troops of the Prince Regent, which lined both sides of the park and the streets whenever his Rural Highness went abroad; and who, if the inclinations of those who so melt admired them were complied with, he I Mr. 'l'.) believed would also line the walls of that House, must not be diminished in number.- - r Hear, Acur.)—Others, besides the Noble Lord and the Regent, admired these troops. The Com mander in Chief also adini..ed them. He (Mr. T.) had the highest. respect for his Royal Highness, and nu man could be more ready than he was to acknowledge the claims which that illustrious person had on the gratitude of the country for the services he had rendered the public in his situation of Com mander in Chief; yet no man was free from prejudice; and it Was not at all surprisi:ig that his Royal Highness, who had pie.sed his life in the midst of military men, and in military pursuits, should be partial to the military. Mr. Tierney said, be could not but consider this as a great constitutional ques tion, as well as one of economy, and he trusted the House mould treat it as such. Mr. N'sxstrrattr contended that the number of troops pro. posed to be kept up was nut more numerous than necessary, and urged the impolicy of discharging this excellent and vete ran rorce, anti entailing an expellee un the country to raise alother force very inferior in its nature. The House then divided—For reducing the Household Troops and the Guards one half, left—against it, 210 —Ma joriiy Sg. Lord Patstsurros moved that 3330;921. be voted for the service of the Cavalry and Waggon Train of Great Britain for the year ISI6. _ . . Alr. TIERNEY moved that the Chairman should report pro gress, and ask leave to sit again. The House divided--For the Resolution, 12i against it, 62 p—Majmity, 6t. The Re4olution was then agreed to. The Chairman then reported proeress, and asked leave to agmu.—Adjourned at half-past One o'clock. TUESDA V, MARCH 12. Petitions were presented against the Property-tax from Cas tle Douglas. the County orSurrey, Clicrisey, , Itristhton, Col Ilenlev-ou-Thames, Itervvick, a n d one from the Inn keepers of Ludlow, against the additional Licence Duty. 'I he Southwark Bridge 11111 was passed. Mr..). Smell( t.resented a Petition from the Town of Not tingham against the Property-tax. The Petitioners complain ed of the remission of a large debt due from Austria, on ac count, as it was alledged. that Austria was distressed; when, in fact, the distresses of this country were imperative. The Speech of the Prince Regent talked of economy ; and the very first step towards that object was, MI intimation from 'Mi nisters of a great excess in the Civil List. General MATIIEW observed, that this tax had been the sub ject of discussion for fifteen days, and he was glad to find that not one of his Irish Friends had spoken in thvour of the tax, with the exception of one or two of the Irish II Misters. With all the opposition made against the tax, he ~till found that Mi nisters were determined to cram the tax slow a the throats of the English people. The lion. General panezyrised the eon ,iset of the Irish Members, condemned the act of Chien, and stated it as his opinion, that if the act was not repealed, the P.mpire would be shaken to its centre; for it was they could, nay, they should not be tyrannized over. Six mil lions of persons would not submit to such court act. With re spect to the tax, he was certain his boll. Countrymen would not vote for it. They would nut lend their hands to such dirty work.--1 Hear, Marl Col. Won't presented a Petition from the tutvn of Hay, in Itreeknockshire, against the 'property tax. The Hon. Gentle man stated, that bis opinion being known as favourable to the tag, already a gentleman of great interest in that neighbour- • 1100.111.111 begun a very active canvass against him for the next general election. lle defended the vote vi hick he gave for an increased Militart• Establisi .eit, on the ground of it being an , ntermediate turnstile. He obseryed, that the repeal of the • hut tax was ow' which would give the lower classes great iclicf. Lord STA SHAN • presented a Petition from the town of Man eliester, against the Property-tax. The Noble Lord revoin mended the practice of economy in that quarter front whence atone it ought to originate, in order to set a good example to The people. He hoped that we should hear no more of build mg thatched cottage-, which might have become England in rte beet days nor rif those profusion>, which would rather become a I'. rsian Setrap in the undid of his Splrllllolll', than a British Monarch in these distressed times.—( ar, Acnr.) Mr. Po ILL; es alluded to the distressed situation of the coin- itiercial classes, and was afraid the framers of the tax took their ideas of rustic' ity trout their own class; tamely, having Go vernment others, with additional salai Ws. Every thing else Was depreciated in twice which :alerted the mainthicturer. Bid Ministers at s uc h a at the officers sander them, had in t a ct (though recommending, With an miblipshilie front, economy) gone on in prof imsi tttt , add ing 2;7,11901. to the Civil List. One of his objections to the Income 'fax was, that it gave Aliaisters an opportunity of sub sidising foreign powers, and that it encouraged a lavish expen &tore. Mr. VANSITT4IIT said, an Hon. Gentleman had talked of large excess in the Civil List of 0741001 If that H i m. Gentleman had looked at the accounts of the Civil List, th e only excess was in the diplomatic csiahlishments, partly arising from the number of Ministers employed, in ronserpienee of the glorious termiliatian of the war. There had been no excess in the Royal Household. So that the vs how of the execs arose from diplomatic arrangements, and not from any braiieli of the royal apiendour being increased. He had stated this fay to be imposed only fur the purpose of windinT lip the war es penees, and should h ave uo oikiection to insert thesu winds in dvAireatntile of tine Act.—' , kegs%) Mr. Da 3t;GillA.4 w.•hed maw the sum of 10,0001 1/11 1 ; NATIONAL REGISTITR. vot, d last year, for paying the arrears of the Civil List, had been applied. Mr. V A %•ITT A /IT said, it had been applied to the purpose for whi , h it had been granted; and that all arrears were paid up to the of April Wt. Lord Forges-rose observed, that, at any rate there was, even in these times of economy, an arrcar on the Civil List, in one v , ar of 2:7,0001. With respect to the Income-tax, the Bight Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had said, the tax would not affect the manufacturers; but an Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) had said it would atfect them very ma terially, and he was inclined to take the opinion of the Hon. Baronet in preference to that of the Hight Hon. Gentleman. The Right Hon. Gentleman had said, the attempt to resist the renewal of the property-tax was a campiracy amongst the rich, who did pay it, against the poor, who did not pay the tax. This was language which the Noble Lord hi4hly deprecated as tend ing to set the rich and poor at variance. Lord lIINNTNG defended the tax, and contended, that the ex planations so frequently given by the Chancellor of the Exche quer to observations of gentlemen, not made in the fairest Wily, were so many proofs of his sincerity. Mr. Fou nts opposed the tax. Mr. GitestELL opposed the tax in any shape, and said, the imposition of it on the public was peculiarly hard, as there was at this time a sum of 11,000,0001. Unclaimed Dividends, in the hands of the Bank of England. One question he wished to ask, and that was, whether, it' the Right Hun. Gentleman should carry this odious tax into effect, he flattered himself with find ing any respectable persons among the body of Magistrates who would assist him in carrying it into execution. NAPOLEON B LION APART E. • Lord CASTLE:III:AGM rose, pursuant to notice, to move for leave to bring in a Bill for the better securing the person of Napoleon Buonaparte. The Noble Lord entered into a res iew of the situations and characters which Buonaparte had tilled and borne ; namely, of Emperor of France, and afterwards of Elba, both of which he had forfeited. The Noble Lord said, he would nut now enter into a particular detail on those heads, but put the present case on the necessity of securing the per son of Buonaparte, to secure the future peace of Europe. Having stated this necessity, he wished now to propose to bring in a Bill to provide for the better securing the person of liuonapai ; and to instruct those who had the custody of him in what manner they were to treat hies: and here he should propose to describe him as a prisoner of war; and in this cha racter the• law (dilations would instruct those who had the care of him how he was to be treated; at the same time taking care that his treatment should be as kind and liberal as circum stances would allow. The Noble Lord concluded by moving for lease to bring in two Bills; one to secure the person of Buonaparte ; the other to regulate the intercourse with St. Helena. Mr. linouottAw did not intend to oppose the bringing in the present bill, us now wan not the time for doing so. He should reserve any observations he had to make till lie saw the ar rangement contained in the Noble Lord's Bill. He was one of those who thought that whether Buonaparte was considered as a sovereign prince, or as a native of France mid prisoner of war not claimed by that Power, our Government bad a right to detain hint without any specific Act of Parliament. Ee trusted, however, he would be treated with all the lenity which ciremnstances would allow. The time might come when it would he possible to pot an end to his imprisonment, but that would bra subject tier future consideration. Lord Ni els'r wished to know whether Buonaparte was to be treated an a sovereign prince, or as prisoner of war. Lord CASTL Lit EAGH said, as a prisoner; but with respect and lenity. Mr. GU ENELL I. hoped no amendment to that effect would be moved by his Hon. Fricod. Indeed, lie was much astonished at hearing him intimate any And' intention. Mr. Brim GIIA !V had not declared any intention to move such an amendment; hi. Hon. Friend bad entirely misunderstood Lim. All he had said was, that a time might anis a when the slate of Europe would be such as would render the lurther detention of this person uonecessarv. Gen. NIATHUW wislieui to ask the Noble Lord, whether there was auy intention on the part of this Government to ►cep Gen. Bertrand and the other officers who were prisoners with llnonaparte. He could not discos er any right we haul to keep these gallant men prisoners of tsar, now we were at peace Midi ell the world. . The AiMUNE\ (ii:NCRAL thought the Bill sufficiently ex plained itself. It was entitled a Bill for !letter securing the person of Napoleon Buonaparte, and alluded to no other person. Mr. fit:elk rye wished to know from the Noble Lord, if there Willi any intention of detaining these persons, either as prisoner, of war or otherwise. Lord CASTIAR LAG H WO, it was not in the contemplation of Government to keep them. The Noble Lord's motion was then put, and leave given to bring in 111!Is accordingly.—Asljuurned ut nine o'clock. WCIfIirSDAY, MARCII 13. Several Petitions against the Property Tax and the proposed Military Establishment were presented, and ordered to lie on the table. Mr. Ruhinsi I proposed Resolutions for egnalizing the Duties on (food', imported and exported from and to America, in British anil American vessels. Agreed to. Mr. Guars( presented a Petition from the owners and oecn piers of Land in the Comity of Suffolk against the Property Tax. He was under the necessity of declaring, though that declaration case him pain, that lie aitlev.d from the Petitioners re.preting the propriety Of continuing tlti,as, %shish, with nll its bins upon it+ brad. lie considered us the best, under all the tire tauces of the times. C OF THE HOUSE. On Mr. W. Keene's name being called over, it was found that the Hon. and Venerable Member was absent; the ques t' for his being committed to the custody of the Serjcant at Alms was then put. Mr. %t . WNNNE suggested that he should be excused as be ing the rather or the 11,m4e. The SPEAKIII asked it the Itiou. Member would more that Mr. Keene be excused in that chararter.—(.l laugh.) Mr. W s NNE then wosa d, that the lion. Member should be e‘ettsed on account of his ae. --Ordered. Several other Members, who were absent, were ordered into custody. 51r. Tiusio EY noosed, that a copy of the Order in Council, dated the 234 June, 1,415, direct ii, that the salaries of the Sc .. etory and Under Secretar) of the .‘tuiralty should be per. at, during peace and war, should be laid before theHousc. —Ordered. _ _ Mr llitocon vra presented a Petition against the Property Tits ; and observed, it was scarcely to he credited, that whits; the !loose was urging the reduction of the clerks and others in public ottices, and the setting aside of two of the Lords of thc Admiralty, lab Majesty's :Ministers were employed in Ineremi- Inc the salaries of some of the offirets, at least in the Admiralty Department. The Hon. Member thrnptcreeded to re.,eat his former ob,ervations on the conduct of his Majesty', AJi os;cl* in thus employing themselves in augmentation of Mil He; Mid,: they hail economy and retrenchment in their mout 14; and whilst they %vele daily urging the necessities of the st re as a reason fur thrusting upon the people that odious i upost the Prcperty Tax. He trusted that the House of Commons vim .ld at length awake to a due regard of i;s own character, and Vince the Noble Lord and his colleagues to abandon that system of wasteful extravagance of expenditin v. Sir li. WARR EADIR asked, if the 11011.4 e was to suspend its judgment till the Documents should be before the Hom,e„ they would then find that all which had been dime, had beeu ender the advice and superintendance of the Revisionist Board of the Admiralty Department; and he had no doubt but the House would be satisfied w:th what had been done. Mr. Ti Ens t.v raid, the Revisional Board of Admiralty had been established by Lord St. Vincent, for the purpose of le form ; but the same Board, it now appeared, coustituted body intended to overturn all reform. Mr. BARING thought all ideas of economy were thrown aside, and the whole business at present going on appeared to he that of increasing and augmenting salaries. Lord CASTLERF.AGH only asked, as his Hon. Friend had done, that the Howie shonlil, fur a short time, suspend its judg limatt. If the principle upon which this advance had taken place was correct, there was nothing in the situation of the (amain., at pre‘ent, more than there was formerly, which ren dered it improper to do so. Mr. Poxsosinv trusted the Right Hon. Benda is earls. oation would be more fortunate than that he had given of his sentiments as they existed at that time on the subject of the Property Tax. The Noble Lord had talked of clamour raised by certain persons in and out of the Home. Was this a way in which the Noble. Lord ought to speak of the Petitions of the People ; and the unanimous, decided, declared opinion of the independent part of the House of Commotts? The clamour (if any existed) was raised by the Noble Lord, and his friends and' adherents, against the voice of the people, as declared in the numberless Petitions which had been presented to the House. Lord CASTLEREAGH thought that he had a right to complain of the mistepresentations of the Right Hon. Gentleman, in imputing to bim, that in what he had said on clamour within the walls of the Howe he had included the Petitioners to the House, or the Merchants and Bankers of London, and the country. He would be bold to say, that no man in the House had a greater rc'peet for the opinion of the most humble in dividual] in the country, who might petition the House, than he had. Sir J. NrweinT would leave it to the Petitioners to form their own opinion on the sentiments of the Noble Lord towardv them. lie would only refer them to the Noble Lord's own words, who had accused them of au ignorant impatience of taxation. Mr. V. Firm rn Pau denied, that his Noble Friend had used the words mentioned in the way imputed to him ; neither the manner nor the tone in which they were uttered could have been fairly construed as intended to insult any, the most hum ble iudiv Hear, hear, front &nth sides of the Howse.) Mr. CHOKER entered into a history of the circumstanced which led to the appointment of the Board of Revision, at the Admiralty, under Lot ri Spencer, and stated that the Board had come to a resolution that the salary of the Secretary should, in times of peace, be three-fourths what it was in time of war: This regulation was to have been extended to all other offices, but, on enquiry, it was tumid impracticable to extend it to any, and in fact it never was applied to any except to the offices which he held ; under these circumstances, the Prince Regent, in Council, considerieg it unjust to the individual to make this. office an exception to all the others, especially as it was an office of very considerable labour, made the Order in Council. which he onderstood the Han. Member for Taunton hail moved for, placing the Secretary of the Admiralty in the same situation which the other officers of the Admiralty, Navy, and Victualling; Offices were. Mr. "'mines considered this as the most inexpedient time. which could be chosen, for increasing the salaries of any publie Officer, unless limier circumstances of the most absolute necee. sity. His Hon. Friend had given notice of a motion relative to the salaries of public Officers. He would suggest to him a paper, which, it lie would move for, would prove most useful to him in the conduct of the motion—that was, for a return of the 1111111 her of persons who had given notice of their intention, to resign, in consequence of the restoration of the peace.—(,L laugh.) After a few words from Mr. LnCIMART, Mr. Biturenast said, it was not to be expected that lies should answer all the arguments which had been broughi against him. The time would arrive when the Noble Lord would be put upon his trial, auu WIICD recrimination would not avail him. Till that time, be would leave the Noble Lord to prepare for his defence. Lord Foss:brims: took occasion to state a grievous case roe ' specting the Property.tax. A Right Hon. Gent. had denonik. slated the tax as affecting the rich, and not the poor; but he should shew, that it affected not the rich, but the poor, or rathep that description of persons just above the class of paupers.—A, Clergyman, of unblemished character, lately died, without hay. ing the means of snaking provision for hisf amity. lie left tiee daughters, well educated, but destitute of support ; their case attracted the attention of some respectable Gentlemen in the, neighbourhood of their late father's residence, and they subs , ' scribed a sum sufficient to purchase an annuity of 401. Whe• 1 1 this annuity came to be paid, the agent deducted 41. for the Property-tax ; and, on a remonstrance being made by their friends, the y oting Ladies were referred for redress to the Com. inissioners of the Tax Office ; the state of their case was fop. warded accordingly, anti it lay four mouths at the Office no. answered. At lei:eth a eireiffix letter was addressed to the County Connuissiouer, under the Act, Ntatinz, " that du ir Qt. unity was not within the meaning of the Act." The Nob's, Lord observed, that here was a plain refutation of the Right Hon. Gentleman's assertion, that the tits would not press IA persons haslet: incomes 'miler .101. per annum. These Ladled had Leen deluded of their property : and ti. to them was a ses hilts hiss. He might be told of mrnlitie..tious ; but the publie would get no good from them—the sillegatiiris against it, al beine, unjust and inquisitorial, were correct: tor if you guard ed against the injustice, you then made• . it inquisitorial. Mr. VANKITTAIIT admitted the eil•C Just stated by the Nold Lord ought to lime been relies eel but without enquiry sir the circumstances, he could not say any thing further. The Petition was ordered to lie on the table. ORDNANCE ESTIMATES. TAlrdi PA I.MER4TON in a Committer moved , that a stint of :;33,11921. !Is. IA. be granted for the pay and equipment of the Dragoon Guards and the Roy al %Waggon Train. Mr. W. Ws nae said, he objected to a cordon of troops h.•irs kept rotund a large extent of country, to Watt It smugglers; he. fortncrly the soldiers won only teleil in to assist the