The National Register. — London, England, 1821-05-27 00:00:00

Mr. HUM li spoke intone, agaiaot this grant, tad pro posed a reduction of 3,3001. The committee divided on this atuendiner Against it 63. The grains of 1,1131. for exchequer and treasury fees nn ordnance grants, and i I,lYtil. tor balance of extraorditiaries, were agiei d to. On an lien fur '.:9,0001. for contingencies in the store de partment, Mr. Hume opposed the motion altogether. After a long cons ersalion the copuuittee div itled—ior the resolution 99—Against it 51—majoi ity fur the resolution 46. The next resolution was for 111,8301. for Ireland. Mr. IiUME objected to this vote as extravagant in the extreme. The expenditure in the store keepers department was greater than it wes in the some department in England t it was upwards , of 11,0001. and might be reduced to 4000 1 . 11e proposed as an amen:lntent a reduction of 455 U. Sir JOIIN NEW PORT supported the amendment . . . .For it 20— Mr. WARD contended that the stun proposed was not more than adequate for the services required. Sir HENRY PARNELL was uudcrstoou to support ,' the amendment. Mr. Hums replied. After a few words from R. Ward, strangers were ordered to withdraw, and the committee divided, when the numbers were—fur Mr. Ilnine's amendment, 53—against it, 92 majority, 39. Mr. It ItOfin EN then read a resolution the house, that a sum of 299,5531. be grunted to hi' Majesty, for the purpose of defraying lialf.psy superannuations, and pensions to officers of artillery, &c. After a few words from Mr. Hume, the resolution was agreed to. 'Flue nest resolution was, that ri sum, not exceedhig 39,1331. I ls. 3d. be granted to his Majesty for the purpose of defraying widows' pensions, and retired allowances iu England. Mr. HUME complained that there were many individuals on this list who might have been placed in some of the 87 offices which had hen tilled up by prisms, who had been introduced for the first time into the ordnance service. A saving of 6,0001. might have been created in that manner.— He thought that the only way of putting a stop to the profusion with which goverument placed individuals upon this list was refusing the money to pas the pen4ions. He added up the half !lay of those who had not perforn eil nine years' service, amid he found that it amounted to 4,700 and and odd pounds. He should propose that the resolution be diminithed in amount by that sum. After a few worts from Mr. J. Smith and Mr. It. War/, the resolutioa was agreed to without a division. Aftercertain other resolutions were passed, the Chairman reported progress, and asked leave to sit again to-morrow. Mr. ARBUTHNOT gave notice that on Friday next lie should submit to the house the tinny es traordinaries. The other orders of the day were then read, and the house adjourned. TIIE NATIONAL REGISTER TLESDAir, MAY 22. There was a ballJt fixed for to-day for a committee to try the merits of the Peterstield tilection petition ; but as there were only 85 members present ,t four o'clock (100 being required for a ballot), the house, was declared to stand adjourned till to-morrow. _ _ WEDNESDAY, MAY V. The gallery was nut opened till near five o'clock, in eonsegnenee of the ballot to try the merits of the Peters field right of election petition. Mr. D. BROWSE brought in the bill to amend the navigation laws in Ireland. M - 1 7 . CHETWI NDE presented the report of the Va grant Laws' committee, and gave notice, that to-morrow he should move for leave to bring in a bill 011 the subject. Dr. PHILLIMOItE presented the report of the Lime rick tight of election committee, which he read at the bar. The committee had determined that the right of election was in freemen and freeholder* of the town and county of Limetick, &c. Mr. C. H. HUTCHINSON gave notice, that on Friday next, on the question that the house go into a cominittae of supply, he should call the attention of the house to cer tain circumstances connected with the state of Europe. Mr. HUME gave notice, that on the 1211 i of June lie should move an address to the King, on the necessity of reducing the expenditute, and pat ticularly of lessening the at tity. (Hear, hear.) Mr. HUME also gave notice, that on the 7th ofJone he should submit a motion tespectitig the lonian Islands, and particularly touching the conduct of Sir T. Maitland. Several petitions were presented against the tlettopolis Road hill. Lord MILTON asked whether any member could in form him if it wcro the intention of the agricultural committee to discuss, or ri.comiaead, any repeal of the agricultural horse tax i Mr. CUIO% EN said he was sorry he did not see the chairman of the committee in his placer hut lie added, if no other member gave any notice on the subject, he should de so on Mammy. Mr. HUME moved for various accounts respecting the expenres at Lewisham, &c.—Ordered. CRIMINAL LAWS..--CONATITIiTIONIAL ASSOCIATION. On the presenting or a petition ter the revision of the criminal laws, Mr. BROUGHAM called the attention of the house to an important infringement of the law that :tad Ittken place in the pi actice of the et intiaal law, and in the lit ivilegcs of the Attorney and Solicitor General, that of instituting prosecutions fur libel. (Hear, hear.) Au association, of questionable legality, was established to prosecute puliii cal libels, by means of a common fund ; but the iudisi 'Wale wets unknown and irre►ponsible. He was now willing to address to such nidivithials the lamotage of expostulation, for lie was much deceived if those indivi duals who persevered did not live to 'client the course they wt re polluting. 'floe tends and discretion were, in fact, in the power of cite or two attorneys; and solely it who much betterthat the discretion should be lett in the hands, as usual, of the Attorney and Solicitor General.— (Hear, hear.}—'There was Roomer objection to the asso ciation • there wet c among the subscribers nu I. ss than 10 peels, and it was within the tit 111,1: of possibility that those peers might become judges, in their usual capacity, of cases which they combined to prosecute. Study those noble lords could nut he aware of the character of their rooduct. (Hear.) He hail (keened it right to advert to these circumstances. Counter associations would not cute the evil, but they were likely to be the cunsequonce.-- (Hear, hear.)•--Petatiuu ordered to be printed. RE.ictu tie Ctioribm.s....Mr, G. BENNLAT moved fel leave to bring in a hill to amend the laws respecting persuns gully of rescuing criminal.. As the law stout', rlb uteaut tile comuion lex, the pt.i inns guilty el reNcties were punishable to the extent whirl' had been awarded to the criminals; but there was the statute often. 11. Sm. The existing law was defective; lio!ire officers might be maimed without cutting, anal they could only prosectiee tor assail's, and lie proposed to amend the law as to retailer more effectual prote.etion to office, s Slid others, who might prevent, or endeavour In prevent, I ii• rescue or prisoners. The SOLICITOR GEN ER A L swield nut oppose the banging in of the bill. Tile ruination 14w provided tile mode of prosecution and pituitillieent; and the statute applied to cases for attempting rescues. Motion agreed to. Mr. WILBERFORCE said, he shoold as early as possi ble bring forward a motion respecting papers that had now been some time before the boost, re gatiling the more effectual abolition of the slave trade; lie mimed Tuesday, June 5. CRIMINAL LAW'.—FORGERY.—Sir J. MACINTOSH moved that the house resolve itself 11110 a committee on the forgery punishment mitigation bill. The SOLICITOR GENERAL said, it was with consider able pain that he felt it his duly I. oppose this motion.— He was happy that this question rotted be discussed without any thin; like party feeling—party had nothing to do with it.—This bill arose out of the report of last session on the criminal laws ; and that report, lie said, it was impossible to read is ithout admitting that it milt an exth cutely partial view'', the question. Theme ave many persons in this ming.% Ito were averse'irom executions for various °Fences; sod therefore it might easily have been predicted that when the committee was appoiuted,such persons would press them selves °lithe attention of the consio:ltee. lie had unfeigned respect for the chairman of the coramittee ; but the report was evidently the product of taste, and therefore was not entitled to so much atteution. It spoke for instance of the hole regarding privately stealisg to the Ulllolllll of 40.. and of privately stealing on board vessels on navigable rivers, when iu fact 110 such laws existed.—lle then spoke of the crime of forgery. The first offence was that of forgiug a will, an offence easily committed, but which might ruin whole families; forging transfer of stock, marriage licenses, deeds. &c. Was the house prepared to agree that transpiero tatiou in such cases would be suflicina ? Ile was aware that intlictiog death for forgeries was an isuovation on the comma mum law ; forgeries were formerly punished as suistleuteauoru but the reason was tolerably widen:. The offences were extremely rare heretofore; but w hen commerce increased, and arid a hen writing became more extessively known, in Eli. zabeth's reign, the law on the subject vas made more severe. There was another Act on the subject ii George the Second's reign, more exemplary punishment laving been deemed necessary. That Act, however, was nit introduced without the greatest consideration. rd Hisdwicke was at the time Attorney General. It was at lint made temporary; it erns passed for five years, but the subject had frequently been brought forward, and he therefort begged the hops,. to exercise the greatest ir ircu•nspect ion before it disturbed the practice established by ahont u century. The reason was aid to be, for an alteration in the existing law, that the ex isting law was net etticieut to repress feige..ie.:. lie d I that ktillemenrof the preamble ; —private forgeries .• • frequent. lac law in such case, he contended, a • He denied the Glee of the argument, that who now abstained from prosecution on necon • penalty, would prosecute if the punishment stele I in either case they would be operated on by stir., a . • at ions—the severity ur the penalty. Punish moot to i. , reveut the committal of crime, by tea ror ur but if the ()Aimee were punished with tran,poriatioa u s. prisoners often would, as transports had done be.i.. r, b, in; convicted, turn round to t he judy., and t'uauk 41 •. •• lhr CiI3II;C of condition oblanied. Persons guilty of ries wet ‘• geacrally in a must distressed satiwatom ;ai • , therefore would not object to such cluing.. as I liat 0. ....ay. im:tai ions He adrnitled that the punishment in other trieS urea lint so severe, but then they had a ludic.% :441 mud, so. oroceeding against the prisoners that were tints now n in tine ermido ; and, under such circumseances, sse most take the guou together with tile evil. He concluded with moving as an amendment, that the bill be committed this day six Mr. F. BUKTON defeeded the bill. Mr. MA nil N (of Galway)stroni ; ly supported the bill,— He Willi convinced many offeoders escaped prosecution in consequence of the indispositien of persons to pruseeme where the putiishment of death was to follow. lie himself was au instance of this—a person committed a fmgei y out him two years ago, for two thousand pounds, and he ditecird that the offender bhoutd ire prosecuted for a minor °fluter, if possible. The person who laded the information entered into re ocnizances to prosecute. Tile assizet faille, and he then learnt that if he proceeded in the prosecuti ~,,, the mum would he hanged. lie then advised the prisoner to apply to put off his trial t he did so, and be (NI r. M.) before the next maize', directed the hammer to forfeit his recognizance by not tippearin. Ile did so, and the offender esimped.— Whereas, hod the puui•hmeut been transportation instead of death, he would have prosecuted the offender to con. ViCiioll. Dr. LUSH INGTO N also summ teal the bill. The forging of wills was a 'cry rare olience—he had only known of three lost asices, and in th ere the pa►ties wool(' not pro;' cute be cause of the capital punishment w Inch attached to it. It uas siusular, out a cause, one of the i:nee, occurred to him this very morning. In a case in which he was eugay,ed pro. eisionoilly, the forgery being clearly proved, the ioe.son who should litre prosecuted wrote a hear, , which he, (Dr. Lush iagton) had in his hand this eery morning, in which he said, " get hack the property; I am not eindortise,an4 1 will oat prosecute." As to the punishment of death having an direct in deterring others from the commission of relate, it ead no such a li'ect. Ile had been informed of an instance which (occurred to a youth of IS, uhunt two years ago lie had up to that time a good character. One morning he passed op the Old Bailey doling an eV:l:Willi' j he toortuired what ;lie criminal was sulieriog fur, and was total our forge ry.— The youth was a clerk in a wren:toes house ; he %tlt to his employ, t committed is forgery on his ruiployt r that very day, and paid his life us the loaf, it or his crime. Mr. NOLAN suppoi ted the amendment of the Solicitor General, on this short and sitting ground—that the loin itself admitted death to be the proper ptllll4lltlit lit of tor. eery in the first instance, in one case; and in the second instance, In all other causes. Mr. C. W. W YNN contended that flue anus was entirely nn the other side to show the propriety of the continuance Or the punishment of death. (Hear, hear.)—lle who doubted the necessity of death as to the pintislituent, was hound to vote for going auto the committee. Alt. W. COLIIITENAV would vute iu ids our of the bill in its present stage; add it was because lie believed they were going along wills public opinion. It was the expres. 'ion of public opitaiun which bad called for the committee, ifs and which now called for the speeitie measures proposed. De opposed the committee trrealti.e lie load thought a dif ferent mode more convenient ; but. having been une of its member/I,lre could say that they had not begun the inquiry with any partial or prejudiced determination. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY rose to state the corrodes :460ns which iiifluesiced hi sss in the vote he should give. In doing so, be felt that it might lo be the wish of every humane man and enlightened legislator to reduce punishineut to the bounds of strict necessity. Where the law was enforced, crimes were iiimiuished; where re: lazed, crimes were in • it in number. By the intro.. driction of traosportation for the minor otfenee, the forgery of the negotiable instruments of the Bank of England was increased. The forget y of private instrnments was visited with capital punishment, and wit. therefore less frequent. Government were nut to blame fur having neglected to provide secondary punishments. It was a matter of ma terial consideration whether there was any secondary punishment 1 . 111 existence for forgery. If there was no punishment iu transportation, it was a question whether indemnity or a positive bounty on forgery was to be enacted. They were at work to strip fingers of every circumstance which constituted a punishment calculated to prevent it. Now, forgery was so fatal to the a hole order of society, and iu its nature so aggravated an of fence, that it was necessary to visit it with a punishment that should carry terror to the minds of all. Mr. WILBERFORCE could not go to a division with out giving his testimony in favour of the bill. Whatever might be the final determination, none ought to iota against going into a committee, unless they were so in love with the present system that no change was thought de. sirable or practicable. To extinguish life was to extin guish hope, and to destroy an 1411111411 tel soul. Sir JAMES MACINTOSH proceeded to argue the question before the house. If his silence might not be considered unbecoming, he should have been well content to have rested the case on the speech of his hon. friend (Mr. Barton)—a speech so complete as to have exhausted the whole question, and so luminous as he had never be fore had the good fortune to hear in that house. (Cheers.) It would be needless and irksome to follow on the same side, and if he might be silent, he should willingly rest the measure on the principles of that admirable exposition. It was to facts and inferences such as-were there pre sented, that the house was bound to attend. He stood not there to refute hypercriticism; but he did not abstain front any consciousuers of inability to defend the report front the objections made to it. (Cheers.) Alter much forcible reasoning expressed in must eloquent language, the hon. and !corned gent. concluded by saying that he now left it to any lion. gent. who chose, to exercise the right of speaking after him. The ATTORNEY GENERAL supported the amend ment at some length. house then divided—Ayes, 118—Noes, I l—Majo t iiv 41 her the original motion. 4 )11 ne ere-admission we found the house in a committee e t- I, Air. Buxton in the Chair. re i t tat nit) , alteratiune or discussions arising • 3:" , . be pustpourd till the bringing up of and the report was ordered to be :,• •• • I y 1 i I)Sft postponed the other two •is • • *. os • :Vat .!ny were then disposed of, and ti.e • r • . ~R •PAY, MAY 2/. AU , ' • • :•,nred for leave to withdraw the New ;act, • , . •,, doi, the nartieb concerned in.tving come to ~ . •1,11 , A I:ICT9eIIC,. - _ • •-% ••esird h s saCsfaction at the motion. . Ai'. A• , • • p•c•e..ie,l a petition, praying the house to r-i- ..sy tholes on the importation of corn. He thus.: duties had operated most injuriously on . 01 , I . • AI.. t 1'•. WEN defended the agriculturalists. Air. HU 11F. cite the corn laws hid operated most iititt. tines , e. Ai.. T. vvit..l) I thought the petitioners were proceeding snot" .hat errone•••ely I it would have been better to petition tin• G'•aurrilnr iit lilt Exchequer to brinik down the taxes to Rio :iniout i t c.c. spotiiiing with the ♦;Jut of money, land, Ac. Pel•tion r, sit to the agricultural committee without hat Mg beeire.,d. presented n prtition from Newington Greta the metropolis road bill.—Ordertd to lie mi the tide. Sir N. PARNELL ptesenird t petition, signed by the fonr Catimlie Archbi+m o ys, and 'mum ity of the Catholic Clergy of Ireinivi, on behalf of the education of the pour.— Ordered to lie mi the table. Mr. BIRCH i)rebenied a petition from Nottingham rigninq the poor fans amendment bill. Petilino read anti ordered to be printed._ Mr. C. HARVEY presented a similar petition flan Nor wich, Ordered to be printed. Cul. DAVIS moved that a select committee be appointed to examine into certain culpable piattices in the clover and trendl seed trade—practices by weans of whit h the vegeta. 'tr= qualities of the seed were destroyed without being discowerable by any except most experienced persons.— Inotioo ay.:reed to. FOUR A ND .1 LP P6RCEIT.DUTIRS.—NIr.CI: LEVEY rore to bring fora turd h s promised notion respecting a certain duty of fats and and n half per ct nt. chargeable on the Lee ward and Barbadocs Istainis. Ile took occasion the other night to object to the grata of 7,a001„ for forts at Barb:Mites, because lie entaitlei , A there forts, &r. ought to be kept in repair by such duty. Hut instead of the duty being so tip. pityriaied, it was diverted to the pas ititit of certain pet.- tu certain lords and ladies, from a hose consequence, wh.m he r. tlectill, he crrtainly did tint exp. et any very greiit success %mild attend has taut inn. lbe however wi,hed the house to hear in mind that hi, first reai tutio t related to Barb:Woes oaly. Ile next a.l. et lel to the 1663, for the reparation ondtitnsitin;uf tot lii, attous , it ,to he paid by the lota not a h If per cent. duty ; but in it lie hound aid Mug about the ;my mem of 1/Claal , lo6 to certain lands laud lathe*, and certainly nothing 4111.41 uronry going into the pl. lots of meant, ri of that noose ite Ihr shape 1.1 pea...m.— (11e ir, hear )—'fit e duties itere alio . . aat E 4 iteeoirit to It the hertilitacy rev, nue of the croa ; but (,tuna 4114.1 e %as addressed tit direct the (Whet. In lit rilipo.p. Latod NCI Ilfdifig to the terms t he ..let. malty years %aril, itv.g in toe &into: or pen-ions mere "ranted. The duty was ,übis jeeii d it.) the payment of ItNloi, to Lord Kin:foul ; but now stontl that grunt d It was pursuant to the arrangement made at the t ;knot lit of lift Otdoes. Aft er ards, however pa it ( Per mistiniotivra verve 1;74