The National Register. — London, England, 1817-02-24 00:00:00

in various districts, render the tilde of the Hampden Clubs. Tlifft• Meths comitintlicated with each other theme: 4 h the me. Iliti:n °filches:4le , , who met occasionally in London these clubs were must numerous to Leicestershire, Derbyshire, lize.; their members weer p.ineepally low artisans anti manufacturers, and they did not disguise that their object was to stop no thing short of revolution. The Spenecan Clubs also raised a small weekly subscription from each member, which served to defray all incidental expellees; and they still confidently look forward to a day of general which they consider and boast of as being at no great distance. They look for ward in the country to the meetings in the metropolis, to give them the example. The morning after the 2 , 1 of December, the roads in flee country were crowded by persons looking for the mails, who expressed great disappointment at the di, turhance leaving been so soon quelled, and wide so little mis chief. They still, however, look forward with confidence /or success, relying on their numbers, and boasting that they have nothing to do but to hold themselves lu readiness; and that their word is "be steady—be ready." Many leave es en gone so far as to calculate what land they shall receive as their portion of the spoil when divided. It has also been suggested, that husbandry instruments may with little trouble be converted into instruments of offence. Associations lead been formed at Glasgow and other parts of Scotland. Indeed, the Committee had great satisfaction in observing, that these Clubs were generally confined to the manufacturing districts, and the lower classes. Few of the higher or middling classes had joined the disaffected, and of the agriculturists none. The Committee assure the House, that in their Report they have exaggerated nothing; and at the same time that they recommend, that every due consideration shonld be given to the distresses of the people; they recommend also, that the House should immediately proceed to take the Report into consideration. The Report concludes with declaring it to be the opinion of the Committee, that the most vigilant at tention of Government is called tor; and that the existing laws are not adequate to meet the existing evils." Tim Report having been read, Lord CASTLEREAGH MOW', that it should lie on the table, and be printed : and that it should be taken into consideration by the House on Monday sext.—This motion was agreed to. THE LORDS OF THE ADMIRALTY. Sir M. Rtut.Ev gave notice, that he would on Tuesday next wove an Address to the Prince Regent, praying for a reduc tion of the number of Lords of the Admiralty. Mr. Gout.aunn gave notice of a motion for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Act of the 43d.0f the King, for regulat ing the number of persons who shall be allowed to glut the country in foreign ships. PROFITS OF THE BANK. Mr. GRF:NFELL rose to bring forward the motion, of which be gave notice on a former night, relative to our public con tracts and dealings with the Hank. The Hon. Member ob server], that every day increased the necessity of enquiry into the state of the transactions between the Bank and the public. But this enquiry could not be instituted with any advantage to the pallier., except before a Select Committee of the House. lit urging for this enquiry, lie might be sup posed hostile towards the Directors of the Bank, for whom individually, lie entertained the highest respect; but as a public body, he felt it leis duty to call for investigation of their dealings. He had more titan once complained of the sum paid by the public to the Bank for the management of the public debt; and he had been told by an Hun. Director, that their charge hail been most moderate, only seven-pence for each 1091. This seemed moderate enough; butt would gentlemen recollect that the public debt amounted to the enormous sum of 800,000,0001. and upon this sum seven pence per cent. was paid, which amomited to no Ices than 21.3,0001. annually. Another great source of profit to the Bank was the public ninnies allowed to remain in their hands, amounting on an average to 11,509,0091., and not one of the six Hon. Directors had attempted to invalidate the papers which haul been laid on the table of the House, bearing tes timony on the face of them to the great anti enormous pro fits which the Bank of England were making. Its cause - qiience of the abandonment of the principle adopted by Mr. Pitt in 1799, the public had been deprived of the sum of 535,0091. By the operation of the new principle acted upon by Lord Sielmouth in IMO I, in the first of the years, the com position amounted to 80,7901. and in the second year to up wards of 91,0001. An arrangement was entered into by the Government with the tlank, hy which the Bank agreed to advance six millions to the mitotic, at the rate of four per cent. and this was hardly concluded before they consented to advance three millions, all of which was public money—thus enumerating the savings to the public, by the discussions in the respect of composition, that the public had benefited about 180,0001. Ile might be asked whether the public would not be content with the amount of these savings? To that question he would reply, he was not satisfied until full, ample, and perfect justice was done to the public on the score of farther retrenchments, and which he considered might be effected by means of a Committee. The first in quiry for the Committee would be, the deposits at the Bank, which amounted to II milli on . ; which being unproductive, was, in tact, a loss to the Public of 55,0001. and of course that gain in amount to the Bank. From this sum must be de ducted 210,0001. the profits which the public derived front the Loan just alluded to, thus leaving a inilance due to the public of 270,0091. which the Bank obtaiu by the insignificant office of acting as a treasure to the public. The Host. Gen tleman then referred a variety of minor arrangements, from which he contended a sum of 150,0001. might be saved. The last item appeared to him a most disgusting charge on the part of the Bank of 10001. for hoes' expeoceri, for coals can dles, Sic. Bin they, being ashamed of the name, now call it a charge for matiaeement. He concluded with assuring the /lOW' that, in bringing the subject forward, lie had been ac tuated solely by a desire to benefit the public, and not from any private motives. He then moved --" That a Select Coin. mince be appointed, to enquire into the engagements now subsisting between the Government and the Bank of Eng land; and to make such regulations a, may be consistent with the principles of good faith, equiity," &c. Mr. V t Nstrra HT observed, that in a mere ease, which af fected the relations of the Bank as a commercial body, the sans probandi would lay wile him. But ha respect of the transactions snore immediately belonged to the public, and of ( . I , lll'Se in which the Government was concerned, those reepiiied some observations. A Committee had been ap pointed for that purpose during the administration of his te mente I predecessor, Mr. Perceyel. :slice that period, in onsequeuee of the termination of the war, the profits of the Bank had most materially ilecreased—pertictilarly in Ex chequer Bills. The different subjects of enquiry have al ready undergone ... examination; the question respretilig the . the other branches, the could not upon mature lvautage to the public. Inanae,enient of the public money and balance, to which he had referred, Cf consideration be inauaged with ilium wii , • THE NATIONAL REGISTER. Mr. Pt•rceval, attentive to the interest of the public, hail pro. v hied that the advances of loans Afoul(' be made in part without interest, acid other part at a low rate—six millions at four per cent. and three millions at three per cent.; nor did lie think it would be wise now to shake those arrangements at a moment when new bargains were about to be made. %With respect to the preparatory arrangements made for the resumption of cash payment, he thotight it would be impro per to make atly enquiry; but it was known that to a certain extent preparatihes had been made for pa) ing certain of their notes of a particular date the.,e sere the 11. and 21. notes. lie conceived that there would be no difficulty in obtaining he currency for their notes, to answer all the purposes of a circulating medium, until the 'Teller:al resumption takes place. lite period ti soil for that general resumption being the 5111 of July, 1818, he had hoped that the Bank would not have been harassed with motions for enquiry. The Hon. Gentle man hail not lironglit forward any thing new, and therefore lie should object to the motion. Me. P. Moons: conceived, that the speech of his Hon. Friend required no argument to support it. IVltat lie rose principally for was to observe, that as the Right Hon. Gen tleman talked of the nova probandi lying with his Hun. Friend, lie took a strange method of enabling him to prove his state ments, by refusing him evidence. He had no doubt, that if the motion was acceded to, he would satisfy the House and the country of the truth of his allegations. The profits of the Bank were enormous; to spew which, Ire need only state, that lately the Corporation divided seven millions, the profits of their trade. He could state, that for every million of paper they issued, they gained 999,0001. profit —(A Lough.) Mr. MARRYATT thought, from experience, and from the Right Hon. Gentleman's own spewing, that further advantage might he expected. He instanced the fact of the public Bank of the United States of America transacting the busi ness of the Government, without making any charge on that account. The enquiry wag of great importance; more so than was imagined; nor did lie think the Bank was would be enabled to resume their payments in cash, in consequence of the advances made to Government, which in the gloss total amounted tot I millions, while their permanent capital was only 1.; millions. How then, lie would ask, could they re sume their payments in specie? It had been held out by the Chancellor of the Exchequer that they would be enabled so to do at the end of the war. We had been two years at peace, and no advances hail been made towards that desira ble object. IVlty was this? Because the currency of the nation is a paper one, and it was well known that paper credit was the ruin of all States. Until we attained a return of specie we shall be undersold in all the foreign markets. He should therefore support the motion for a Committee. Mr. liusaissost observed, that the Hon. Gentleman had assumed that no period had been fixed for resuming cash payments. Now it would be useless for an enquiry, when the House had fixed the Sth of July, 1818, for that purpose. Mr. MANNING declared, that on all occasions the Bank were ready to give every information to any Member of this Hence. He had come down to the House without any notice of the• precise nature of the charge; fin- the Hon. Gentleman had not intimated it to the Batik Directors; but he had the satis faction, after hearing the Hon. Gentleman's speech this even ing, to find that every item and every statement bath been printed and circulated in a daily paper of the I Ith of Janu ary. He therefore must suppose that the lion. Gentleman had the misfortune to lose his notes, and they bad crept into the paper in question. With respect to the enormity of the charges alluded to, he had to state, that the whole expelice to the public fur the employment of clerks, house expeneo s, and loss by forgeries on the funds, was at the rate of Id. is 1001. The charges of management of the public debt at present is less than in 1807, when the Debt was about 605,000,0001. and now it is upwards of 800,000,0091. As to the charge 0140001. which the Hon. Gentleman had called a disgusting one, he (Mr. M.) hail, at least ten times, told the Hon. Gentleman, that the charge was for the purchase of South Sea Stock, which was as much the real estate of the Bank as any of the estates of the lion. Gentleman could be considered his own property, and with which the Parliament had no right to interfere. He hoped that this would lie the last time he should hear of the subject. The lion. Gentle man quoted an opinion of Sir F. Baring in favour of the Bank capital, as having a material influence on the commercial spirit of the country, in a circulating point of view. He concluded with opposing the motion, concurring with his Right lion. Friend (Mr. Vansittart), that no ground had been laid for acceding to it. Lord A. HAMILTON supported the motion, contending, that if in the present state of the finances it could he %hewn, that a saving to the amount stated by his Hon. Friend might be made, he thought the House were bound to go into the inquiry. No arguments of a contrary tendency had been adduced ; acid it became the Government to institute an in quiry, in order to convince the public of their sincerity to take care of their interest. Mr. Alderman C. SMITH contended, that the circulation of Bank paper affected materially the manufacturing in terms. Mr. GRENFELL replied, and the House divided.—For the motiun—Ayes, 40—Noes, 90—Majority against the motion, SU. Lord A. HAMILTON observed, that some time before the meeting of Parliament, the Bank issued a notice, stating that they would pay certain notes in specie, on or betime a day named. He wished, therefore, to have an account of the notes of that description which had been paid in consequence. The Noble Lord then moved for a copy of any notice issued by the Bank, in 1816, respecting the payment of their notes in specie; and also an account of the notes paid in specie, in consequence of that notice. Mr. VANSITTART observed, the subject had been so re peatedly discussed, that he should not enter upon it now. Hut with respect to the resumption of their payments in con sequence of the notice referred to, the Bank had shewn a dis position to meet the wishes of Parliament, by anticipating its provisions at all earlier period than prescribed by law. He should oppose the 'notion. The motion was then put and negatived.—Tbe House then adjourned to Friday. FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 21. POOR LA Ws. The busicess of the greatest general interest this day, was Mr. Ctrawan's motion relative to the Poor Laws. I%e regret exceedingly one want of room for the very ante and eloquent speech which Mr. Ciirwen delivered on this 'Devi: •ion. The Poor Laws, he said, were in their origin most excetient. They provided sustenance and comfort fir the aged and the infirm, but the legislators who enacted them never anticipa►ed that die funds provided for poverty, age, infirmity, and disease, should tee lavished upon persons who were not 'Miele(' with those formidable ev its. Formerly Priors' Hates amounted to only a waliou and a hall' now they amount to eight nullious FEBRITARY 24 and a half. This was a cause of' deep and hitter regret, and no one conkd lament it more sincerely than tie did. If an increase of happiness could be obtained by permitting the Poor Laws to remain in their present state, he would be the last to attempt their alteration, but he felt strongly convinced that their existence in the present state, was one of the chief causes of national misery. to the endeavours to pre. serve the lower orders from indigence, the legislature has, by recurring to them, too great a facility of obtainiiig an asylnin„ super-induced a habit of preferring present enjoyment to fii lure comfort, and making than the victims of discontent, by depriving them of the elevating s!iirit of independence. His. content and depravity most be the result of so great a portion of the people being in a state of pauperism and depend lice. In In eland, where the Pour Laws are not in tot re, the external appearance of the lower orders of the inhabitants, and of' their habitations, excite the strongest feeling, of horror and disgust : io MIC who sees them for the first time, but would wish lie had never seen them, and yet the conversation and the conduct of the people indicate content and even happi ness, fur they are independent, they live by the frills 01 their own industry, and are never assailed by the degrading appel lation of pauper. Their hearts are full of strong feelings and warm affections, and their wretched hot els are the seats of open-hearted hospitality. He further observed, that a great cause of there being at present in England such a num ber of paupers, was a strong disposition which existed to early marriages, the affect of which was to bring into the world hundreds of children, on whose prospect of future support their parents never once bestowed a thought. He was not desirous of controuling matrimony, but he felt that the Legislature could take such measures as WOlll , l make the people parties to their own happiness. He expressed his full conviction that the ad of Elizabeth should remain precisely as it was, and he undertook to skew that then the burden would be light. He was willing to give Ministers every cre dit for the utmost readiness to prevent even the most minute increase of' the public distress. He did not know whether their opinion coincided with his or not, but on this point he had quite made up his mind, that he would not go into the Committee unless there was a good prospect of ootaining effectual and speedy relief. 'flie Honourable Member said, that he had a variety of letters front Shropshire, Sussex, and many other places, stating they paid from 18 to 20s. in the pound. He calculated the number of paupers to amount to two millions and a half, and the amount of subscriptions and Poors' Rates to be abort 8,300,0001. which made on th. - 2 whale 26 per cent. upon the entire rent. Many lawyers of high eminence of high eminence were of opinion, that all property in the Funds and elsewhere were liable to Poors' Rates ; and by a quotation which he made, it appeared that in the year ltiti3 it was resolved by the Judges, that every person should he charged according to his estate, and by the 22i1 of Geo. I. property in the funds was made chargeable. As to the policy of taxing funded property for the poor, it was quite as politic to do so as to lay the Income Tax on it. He calculated the amount of nacres' on funded property, Debentures, flank Stock, 'idle Stock, South Sea stock, &c. to amount to three millions and half; if this, together with landed property, was taxed, even at a very low rate, it would yield a sothcient sum fur the poor. He also observed, that money lent at interest should also be made chargeable. He was of opinion, that pauperism was inure the effect of com merce than of agriculture ; and lie also observed, that the poor laws were peculiarly oppressive upon persons who were not natives of England. He assured the House, that he felt his inadequacy to perform the task which he had undertake», and before he colichnleil, he begged leave to conjure the Nobie Lord to raise and immortalise his name, loy lending his assistance to amelioration of those unjust anal oppressive laws. He urged him to come forward—he entreated lion to tell the House and the country what they had to expect, as every thing depended upon Win. The Holt. Member cou eluded by moving that a Committee be appointed to inquire into the state of the Poor Laws. Lord CASTLEREAGH Said, tii;Hon. Member (Mr. Curwen) might rest assured, that his Majesty's Ministers would most cheerfully dedicate so much of their time as they could pos. sibly withdraw bum other duties, to assist in the investig,a tnni of this most important subject. though he might en. tertain doubts whether all the sangine views of the Hon. Gentleman could be realized by the labours of the proposed Committee, he certainly believed that much good might rea sonably be expected from the measure. His Lordship spoke at very great length, and concluded by expressing the ut most gratification iii supporting the motion for a Committee, and his exertions in the Committee should be given with the utmost cordiality. Mr. CuitsvLN in explanation, disclaimed any views of coer cion with respect to Saving Batiks, lie had only in his con templation places where the majority of the parishioners of all descriptions should be disposed to adopt the plan. The motion was agreed to, and a Select Committee ap pointed. SHOP TAX. Previous to Mr. Corwen's motion, Sir JAMES SHAW rose to pre sent a Petition from several Merchants, Traders, and Shopkeepers. in the City of London, on a subject to which he begged leave to call the attention of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. It was re, Ling the new reading and new construction give), to an Act of Parliament by the Commissioners of Taxes, whereby they attempted to levy a Tax on W.vehouscs and Shops, which were solely occupied as such, and were nut in any respect dwelling-houses. The Cu %xcEr.toa of the Excit Ecto En said, he was fully aware of the hardships of this LAI', as stated by the Hon. Baronet, and he could akblJe han an.t assure the House, that immediate inessuris would be taken to prevent its recurrence in future. • The Petition was ordered to lie on the table. PUBLIC HOUSE LICENSES. Sir SAMUEL ROMILLY presented a Petition trOM 250 respectable inhabitants in the vicinity of White Horse-lane, Shadwell, complain ing of the conduct of Nlagistrates in the licensing of public-houses. He should only ask at present, ter time petition to lie on the table, as he intended at a future time to move fur a Conuuntee on the sub ject. On this account, therefore, we shall poopone any farther report of the debate on this important subject, tzp,:cuilly as it is our intention to enter upon it at length, in a future number. PERSONS UNDER. SENTENCE OF DEATII. Mr. BxmisET moved, that the Papers presented to that !louse on Wednesday, rela:ive to Convicts in Newgate under sentence of l)tath, be printed. Ile states', that at four o'clock yesterday there were no fewer than 100 persons under sentence of death. It would shod any one to see the state of despair and of horrid impiety in which these unhappy person', were. With the exception of a few individuals. they were half intoxicated and perfectly callous. So shamefully in • deed wa, the ailministtation of Justice in this particular coming:bd, that he Lail been told by those who were aeett,toun-11 to these scents of woe, that these wretc h ed beings received situ pleasure tile order for their execution. Ile wished to ask the Noble Lord, why the Recorder had not yet made his Report for the month of October ? Lord CASTLEREAGH replied, that the Report Ina! been ordered to be received on Wednesday last ; but the re repcon ut it had beta unavoidably delayed, and was now fixed fOT to-morrow. Tin: =Liu Max Mar awced to.