The National Register. — London, England, 1816-02-19 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, MONDAY, Fla. 12. LOND KINNA/RD. Lord HOLLAND said, that before the House proceeded to business be bad a question to put to the Noble Lord, which the usage of the House allowed him to put; and also to make-• statement of what bad befallen a Noble Friend of his. who was a peer of the realm, although he hail not the honour of being a member of that house. It was well known, that a Noble Friend ut la had been sent away from a neighbouring country, in a manner which the Noble Lord would have been better stile to state, had he been a member of that House. Fur his own part, he rose now for the purpose of asking the Noble Lord opposite it (as he knew there hail) any communication had taken place between the two Goveruments on this subject; and whether the Noble Lord had any objection to the produc tion of such conimuuication ... The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, he considered it as a clear cue that every government might send any person out of the country who was not a natural burn subject of that country. This the government of any country might do without assign ing any reason fur it, provided it found it necessary to do so. He felt this the more strongly, as we had in our statute book a )aw which enabled the government, on its own responsibility, to send aliens out of the country. And he had no difficulty in stating that the opinion of this Government would be regulated by what would he its own conduct in a similar case;and he would say, that if a subject of France. however high his rank may be, were sent out of this country, the Government would not think St to account to the French Ambassador at all for it. In this •iew, the present case was one in which the Executive Govern ment email have nu adequate grawnis to interest itself; nor could Parliament, he thoaght, call on them to proceed in such a case. He therefore tbit himself called on, by every prin ciple, to refuse the production of any communications which might have taken place on this subject. As to the Noble Lord who was the subject of them, he lied no charge of any kind to make against him. Lord HOLLAND said, he was happy to hear that no impu tation was attempted to be cast on the character or honour of the Noble Lord alluded to. For his own part, he considered this act of the French Government as the act of the British Government, as things were now constituted. It was now foreign to his purpose to enter into a discussion of the Alien Act ; but he could not help remarking, that it was the greatest Inno►ation on our Constitution that had been introduced within the memory of man. Here the conversation closed. Lord HOLLAND said, that before the House adjourned he had • natation to put to the Noble Earl opposite :—After con sidering the last treaties which had been laid before the House, and which /Mewed the present situation of Europe; he found that no mention was made of any Treaty except that of 1814, consequently the Treaty of Utrecht was not noticed. On this account he conceived that the two Bourbon families in France and Spain were under the control of the Treaty of Utrecht ao longer; so that at no very distant period Ferdinand might succeed to the throne of France, and both France and Spain would then be subject to one monarch ; a circumstance to pre vent which so much of the blood and treasure of this country had been las ished. The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, there were no other treaties in existence besides those hethre the House. Lord HOLLAND said, he was then to understand, that there was no engagement to prevent the union of France and Spain ander one sovereign, if the present royal family of France should fail of male issue.—Adjourned. Tursos . i, Frs. 13. TM* Bishop of Hereford took the oaths and his seat, on his translation from the See of Glocester —Adjourned. WEDNESDAY, FED. 14. Thei3ishop of St. Asaph took the oaths and his seat, on his translation from the See of Hereford. PEACE ESTABLISHMENT. Lord Gnamtriz.t.z said, he had precedents for such a motion es be was about to make, and for the very reasons he was ac tuated by. The first was in 1742, the next in 1756. In the latter instance, the House was called on by the Crown to co operate in bringing home the blessings of peace to this coun try. It was then agreed to without debate, that an Account of the Peace Military Expenditure should be laid before the lbuse. It was on these grounds that he called for the pro duction. of the Estimates of the Military Expenditure for the surrent year. It was necessary to consider, when they con gratulated the Prince Regent on the restoration of peace, whe ther the peace was likely to be permanent. But above all it was necessary for them to take their share in the reduction of the enormous expense we had endured for 25 years: for upon this depended, whether we should—`after 25 years of war to maintain the laws and constitution of this country)— suddenly abandon that constitution; lose our rank in Europe; and become, at humble distance, the imitators of the military mations of Europe; and from being great and free, allow ourselves to become enslaved and degraded. He did suspect, from the conduct of Ministers last year, that such would be the conse eptence. Many treated his fears as visionary ; but even then, when a Peace Eseablislirnent of 19 millions was to be kept op, It would have been impossible for him to believe, that it would be proposed to keep up an army of 150,000 men; and (still more to increase his horror and dismay) that 50,000 of them were to be kept tip in Great Britain. Till he heard these things asserted is Parliament, he knew not how to believe them, But if such a scheme was to be proposed, it would destroy in his mind the rely hope ef freedom for this country; and however Sync% be might wish from year to year to take less Share in their debates, yet while he had a voice, lie would lift it up against so pernicious a system. At some future period be would come down prepared for the discussion ; and would then skew that Ministers ought now to make some reductions even below the Peace Establishment of 1780. At that period it was the anxious study of the Ministry, by every means in its power, to reduce our establishment as much as possible. At that period the great man then at th e head of the Ministry did not think he had discharged his duty sufficiently by the country in reducing the establishment for the army to 1,800,0001. and the navy to 2.000,0001. which he thought should have been still lower. It was hard to recollect so long; but at that period he lived in the closest union of thoughts and counsels of Mr. Pitt: hut he firmly believed that he felt no consolation equal to that of balding (by that reduced establishment) enabled the country to meet those dreadful storms and convulsions of the French Re velation. 'He then moved an Address to the Prince Regent, that he would be pleased to order the Army Estimates for the yen . 1616 to be laid before the House. The Earl of LIVERPOOL was perfectly willing to admit the propriety of laying the documents asked for before the House. was prepared for himself and his eql/eagues to argue this subject point by point ; and would be coineut to rest the issue es th, necessity or urgency of keep up the proposed Peace e s t a blishment for the security of theitsomary. lu the first place at would he proper to look at what was necessary for the sup- THE NATIONAL REGISTER. port of the army now, compared with what it wa• in 1792. The half-pay and other increased allowances to the army (some of which he bad at first opposed, and still thought extravagant), were greater than the whole pay of the army in 1792. Since that period he had lived in intimacy with Mr. Pitt; and he would say, that that great man expressed his regret, that we had entered into the war of 1792, In some degree unprepared, iu consequence of the small peace establishment we had pre viously kept up. The army to be kept up in France was to be 30,000 men, and that in India 20,000; but these lie deducted from the whole army, which lett 90,000 men for Great Britain and the Colonies. lie had no objection to the production of the papers moved for, and would be ready, at a future day, to enter into a complete discussion of them. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said, the hope of the country had now been deceived, that after the dreadful privations the people had suffered during the war, the peace that followed it would bring them relief. The Peace Establishment this year was greater by four or five millions than it was last year. Was Buonaparte more formidable in St. Helena than he was in the Isle of Elba ; where, by the bye, the Ministers told them they had last year placed him in perfect security? The Noble Earl (Liverpool) was now calling on the House to make the War EAablishinent a permanent tone in the time of peace. It was too much to tell the people of this country, who had shed their blood and spent their treasure—who had by their valour and their zeal destroyed the French fleet—reduced their army to 10 or 12 regiments—it was too much to tell the people of this country that there should be sso reduction of our expenditure ; no relief to them from tie burdens under which they had groaned for 25 years. He Wasted the House would endeavour to bring back that relation between the military and civil esta blishments of this country which prevailed before the war, and which could alone secure to us the blessings of a free constitution. Lord Kiss contended, that this was only an attempt to try the temper of the country, bow thr it would suffer a war esta blishment to be kept up in a time of peace. The motion was then agreed to nem. dis. THURSDAY, FEB. 15. The Naval Courts Martial and the Glass Duties Rills were brought up from the Commons, by Mr. llnoc Den and others, and read a first time.—Adjourned till to-morrow, (Friday), when the House sat; bat there being no particular business before it, the House adjourned to Monday. —...,-... HOUSE OF COMMONS, MONDAY, FEN. 12. Lord G. SZRESPORD informed the House, be had waited on the Prince Regent with the Address of the 10th inst. respect ing the erection of a Naval Monumentnd that his Royal Highness had signified he would give in nate orders for car rying the vote into effect. Sir F. FLOOD gave notice, that he should, on the 11th of March, move for leave to bring in a RIR for the better protec tion of Landlords against Frauds committed upon them by . T enants. He would also take this opportunity of asking an Hon. Member (Mr. Western) if, in his notice for a motion to appoint a Committee to enquire into the state of the Agriculture of the Country, it was in his contemplation to include Ireland. STATE OF THE FINANCES. The House then resolved into a Committee of Supply. Mr.VANSITTART said, it, on the present occasion, he merely had to advert to the Resolution which he was about to submit to the Committee, it would not have been necessary to detain them by any long statement. All that he had now to submit to the Committee would be, a Resolution for a sum of 12,600,0001. for paying off that sum issued in November, 1814, at present unprovided for; and 500,9001. other Exchequer Bills now coining due; and, An a for a vote for the re -paynions *inch as:were outstanding o the rant of 1815, Recording to the usual mode of proceeding ; hot he understood some Gentle:, asen bad, during life-etanace on • former eveulag, expressed an expectation that he should on this occasion submit to the House, and to the country, something in the shape of a gene ral outline of the nature and amount of the Supplies which would be required for the present year. Although this was not the usual course, be should not consider it as either an un reasonable or an inconvenient one ; and would now, therefore, proceed to give a general outline of what our expenditure was likely to be for the coming year, and what our finances to meet that expenditure. Gentlemen would be `aware, that it could only be a general statement, and one liable, in some de- I gree, to error; but he would endeavour so to state it now,' that there should be no increase hereafter. We were now, he trusted, arrived at the end of this long and eventful contest-- 1 a contest which we had maintained for the defence of the liberties of Europe ; and, he United, we had so conducted ourselves through it, that our naval and military glory was established with all the world ; and it now only remained for us to exert a little of that firmness and constancy so often recommended in that House, to meet the difficulties we bad at present to en counter. On the present occasion, it would first be necessary to take a short review of the financial state of the country at the commencement of the present year, to state our wants, the ways and means we had to caret them, and the expenditure and receipts of the last year. The documents on the last sub ject would be speedily laid before the House. The first head of Finance which he would mention was the Customs. These, for the year ending the Mb of January, 1816, amounted to 11,059,0001. ; the produce for the year eliding January 5, 1816, was only 10,482,0001.; but it must be recollected, that in the receipt of 1814 the war tax on tonnage, amounting to 700,0001. was included; this was repealed, and, therefore, if that sum was deducted from the amount of Customs for 1814, it would be found, that even that head of Revenue had increased in the last year. The next bend of Receipts which he would advert to was the Excise; this giranch of Revenue in 1814 produced 25,143,0001. ; in the last year it produced 28,562,0001. exceed. ing the former year by. 1,400,0001.; yet no new duty had been imposed,l except an additional duty on licenses; which, how ever, had produced no more than 304,0001. of the increase. The next source of Revenue, was the Stamp Duty : which in 1814 produced 5,596,0001.; and in 1813, 5,865,0001. A con siderable increase had been made in the Duties on Stamps of difkrent descriptions; but he could not say, that the increased duty was occasioned by this circumstance. The Property Tax, in 1814, produced 14 millions; in the last year, as produce exceeded /5 millions. The nest great bead of revenue was the Assessed Taxes, which, in 1814, produced 6,411,0001. ; and, in the last year. 6,620,0001. The Right Honourable Gentleman then proceeded to enumerate the revenues of the Post-office, the Land-tax, Ire. and compared the receipts of last year with those of the preeeding year; and observed, that there was an increase upon each item: anti on looking to the total amount for each year, it would he found that the total amount of income in 1814 was 65,430,0001. ; and in the last year it was 60,443,0001. being an increase of some thing more than a million, notwithstanding the difficulties un der which the country had laboured durintr the last year. It would be expected that he should now give some account of the application of Supplies so liberally grouted, so well propor tioned to meet the dangers we bad to apprehend at the time FEB. 19. they were given. By the results of th e ever-glorions battle of Waterloo, however, the necessity rot them was i n a great de gree superseded. On the 14th of Jane last, the Bettie voted a great part of these Supplies, and there were at that time stints Gentlemen on the other side of thg House, who prophesied that, as great as they were, they would fall short of the want s .r those who applied tor them. Those Gentlemen also predicted. that any attempt upon the French fortresses would end unit in proving the absurdity of the attempt. (In the very next ay, however, the attempt was made, Site value of the prediction was shewn, for the attempt fully succeeded, and the cannon did not cease to roar till the power of Fiauce was overthrown in the field of Waterloo.—(Hear, hear.)—And he had now the sa tisfaction of stating, that so far from the sinus then granted by Parliament not having been sufficient, 20 millions, a part or them had been applied to the reduction of the au/boded debt of the country, and a further sum of 21 millions to the paying off outstanding Exchequer Mts.—Wear, hatr.l-1a the beginning of the year 1015, the Exchequer Bills outstanding amounted to 68,5411,0001. ; now they were 47,600,0001. From a view of the revenue, he would wish the House now to look to the trade of the country. The total of Exports for the three quarters of a year ending on the 10th of Oct. 1814, was 37,167,0001. , for the three quarters ending Oct. 10, 1815, they amounted to 42,42.1,0001. The Cotton Exports in 11414 were 13.169,0001.; in the last year they were 15,376,0001. The Linen Exports in 1814 were 1,186,0001.; ih the last year they were 1,334,00e1. The Woollen in 1814 were 6,131,0001. ; in the last year they were 8,330,0001. The great and lending difficulty which we had to encounter at present was the distressed state of the agri cultural interests of the country, the depreciation of value of all agricultural productions, which during the war had, from various circumstances, risen s• mach beyond their due propor tion : this unnatural rise had its origin in the events of the years 1795 and 1800; our supplies from the Continent, at that time, depended en the caprice of an inveterate enemy, and a great price was afterwards given to our own growers, to encourage the growth of grain at home, and render as, as far as possible. independent of the Continent for a supply ; the high price which all agricultural produce fetched in the market from that time, certainly encouraged the growth of corn at home, but on the Continent becoming open to us, it was discovered that we could supply ourselves much cheaper, and the consequence was that corn fell at borne. Parliament, under these circum stances, adopted the measure of last Session, but that measure coming immediately after a plentiful harvest, and a large sup ply from the Continent, came ton late, and the prices continued to full. Besides the large supplies of corn sent into the mar ket, it must be recollected, that Government during the war had been in the habit of taking a large quantity of flour for biscuits, amounting annually to 200,000 sacks ; the Commissary General was also in the habit of making large contracts ; and whenever Government went into the market, it had the effect of raising the price of the commodity, because it was know* that its necessities were pressing, and the commodity must be had at any price • this was, no doubt, another cause of the fall in price. Had P arliamentl interfered at an earlier period, and adopted the measure of last Session, it might have had some effect in arresting the evil; such a measure was proposed in the preceding Session ; but the country was not then prepared for it, and it was abandoned to the following Session ; and in the mean time the blow to agriculture was struck. A variety of remedies had been proposed; at present he should advert to but two or three of them. An Hon. Member had suggested, as a remedy for the evil, a suspension of the Usury Laws. Could he (Mr. V.) consider the evil as likely to be lasting, be would not dismiss this recommendation without a most mature consideration : but he trusted the evil would not be of that description. For himself, lie considered there were two moties to be adopted; first, a diminution of taxation—theer, hear , and secondly, the support of Fabler credit. The first might appear, and certainly was, desirous ; bat he did not consider it as the most politic. He would put a case to the House. Sup pose, for instauce, every person in Great Britain, men. women, and children, could, by any magical device, find at their rising to-morrow morning each ofthem a guinea in their pockets.—(4 general laugh.)—Phis would bring a capital of near 15 millions into Great Britain : yet no person would be able to pay a 101. bill, or buy a load of corn with it, any more than he could at present. Unless it could be collected together into a capital, it would be of no relief to the country. If, instead of a single guinea in the pocket of each individual, the 15 millions could be paid into the country banks, the distress of the country would, lie was convinced, disappear almost instantaneously. Every man who stood in want of' temporary assistance, and had security to offer, would get it, and get it from the usual chan nel. Now it would not be convenient to Parliament to give assistance to every individual in the proportion in which he might want it, or would it perhaps be prudes' to lend 15 ail. lions to country bankers; yet, what Parliament could not do positively it might do negatively ; and in his opinion, the only way to alleviate the distress of the country at large, would be to uphold public credit. To raise 15 millions by taxation, would be to take a guinea from each individual; but this he did not believe would have any effect on public credit ; though to take that sum by way of loan for the public s erv i c e f rom the money market, would have that effect, and tend very materially to aggravate the distresses of the country: last year 64 mil lions were added to the public debt ; if this year we should add nothing, but on the contrary pay off 17 millions of old debt. much would be done, and the country banks would them obtain assistance front the money-market through the usual channels. He had en a former night stated his intention to propose tits reduction of the Property-tax to five per cent.: this would take ofi seven millions of taxation, above four millions of which would belong to the agricultural interest. He also hoped to be able to diminish agricultural taxes to the amount of aaotbet million, making altogether a diminution of five totalities. It would be for the future consideration of the House to say on what articles of taxation this reduction could best be made. His present opinion, however, which he would state, was, that it would be hest made by taking off part of the duty set forth in schedule 11, namely, the Tenant's Tax, and the duty °fram ing byres altogether. The Right Hon. Gentleman again ob served, that he trusted he should be able to raise the supplies without having recourse to any loan for the present year; the three loans had amounted to let millions, of which 54 millions had been taken in the last year. Uwe this year refrained from taking any loan, and instead of doing so threw 14 millions into the money market, a great deal would be done towards reliev ing the distress of the country, and he trusted would, in a few months, accomplish that object altogether.—(Hear, hear.) — With respect to the expenditure of the present tear, an Hon. Friend of his would, in the course of the evening, propose resolution for the number of seamen and marines for the pre sent year. In what was now to be subniitted to the House, he did not intend to say such was to be the Peace establishment; on the contrary, he was in hopes considerable reductions might still be made, even in the present year,and in future years web greater. The House would not think it extraordinary that every thing could not be done in the first year after the conclu sion of this momentous contests when, ii they looked back to of three sulidate time rn Only six chequer by way ?6,700,11 lent. e aped. !thplat at the c he had .tradicti • dther a Low *wilds iii i e n 0 er 81 of 1 '' ' r. I do a des ire !Pre f i t t i ni I y u a the r ( .6 ' pk ea i ~ r. r. V Fort Us of ould . NI ed b tie dis • of four's] tot qu deliert relieve out on a facil was th again 1 relievi posed Burma pert •