The National Register. — London, England, 1816-03-03 00:00:00

MARCH r . Po s , i)P.. u Y observed, that out of these 27 Petitions there 'were 24 of them against the Property Tax. Sir J. SHAW presented a Petition from F.rringdon Within; ag did blr. 'taring one tiara Dorking, in Surrey. The Petitions were then read and ordered to lie on the table. Mr. VAIISITTARTIotted the Oilier of the Day for the Huu,e going into& Committee of Supply. Lord J. Russri.i. opposed the going into a Committee; he came down fur that purpose ; but if his ttnrpo•e had not been on, he should, from lb.: great number of Petitions presented against the Tax on Property, have Mt it his deity to object to the vote. The time might come when it would be necessary, in opposition to the principles of the Constitution, to keep nil a large standing army, and an extetsded navy. but then the liberties of the country would be gone; he titerebire should op pose the estimates. It formerly had been said by Ministers, that it was requisite to keep a large estsbG•hatent to carry on the war; now, they pretended a large military establishment was necessary, not to carry on the war. but by preserve the peace.— (Hear, Dear.)—What must then have been the glorious result of so long a war, which produced in Ministers a convic tion that they could not secure a state of tranquillity. The Noble Lord concluded by opposing the estimates being referr ed to a Committee. meaning ttr follow it np, if laucee,still, by an Address for a more reduced establishment. Mr. LEWIS considered the question as one affecting the the country gentlemen, who, on all occasions, had rallied round the Throne. He called on them, therefore, to think for them. selves, and decide fairly on what are the means of the country to sup tort the present proposed enlarged establishment. He wished them to recur to the time of King William, when the .Country Gentlemen tore from that Monarch (who was, as it were, the seal of the Constituent%) his Dutch Guards, who were his hest friends ie the war. lie cared not who %sere Ministers, but thought that the present Ministers had taken a false view of the means and danger of the country. Iti Gentle men would look at the permanent taxes, now 4u minions, why tte increased militat% esiaolishinent would betel ',Billions more, making a permanent Peace Revenue 01(10 millions. C,onld the country bear it? He was afraid that we were at the end of tax ation.—The distresses of the country, he believed, were of a nature of which Ministers were nut aware. In respect to the danger to be apprehended, there could be no danger frein France; her army was disbanded. Nor could lie see the ne cessity of keeping so largo an arniyatt home, when we had one in France to so large an amount. He conteuded, that the Islands did net require garrisons to the extent which Ministers proposed to sautes in them; and expressed an "minim), that the lonian Islands would be kept in perfect security with I eOO men, instead of WOO, as now proposed. Hut a ith respect to the West India Islands, the amount of 14,000 men was infinitely beyond the member necessary. He uotiewl the situation of Ire laud, which he regretted much, and lamented the unhappy course pursued towards that country. He hoped that some alteration would be made in the system of administering the Government there. He understood that it was proposed to vote 100,000 men fur the laical Militia. This lie thought a vote bigley objectionable. Mr. Voaxe observed, that the most convenient mode of dis cussing the subject would has e been iii the Committee. He was glad, however, it had been brought under discussion in any way; for it was right that the comitiy should know that the Government were pursuing a proper course; and. before the debate was concluded, Gentlemen would be convinced of the fact.—He apprehended that at this time of day there was no dispute about having a standing army. The vast surface we cover over the 4101 e required a large one. At the same time, lie would al: tit the propriety of a legal and constitutional jealousy of a standing army iii the heads of the Crown; but that jealousy must depend oil circumstances, as ai ising from the sense of danger, or apprehension of it. He was deposed to allow that it anise be tinder civil controul—thei of the Par liament. It was so—and that cornett'', extended to the tbreign army. With respect to the army in general, it was well known that the Crown at any Rine might receive a check from Parlia ment, by the refusal of a Supply. But looking ti the increased population and wealth of the country—.(l/car.)--Gentlemen might object to the wore, 'jut, titotieti there were distresses, there was wealth enough in the country. As to the jealousy, was it tinder these cireenistaiwee a cause for jealousy, that there should be an establishment of if or 900;) men more thee there were 26 years ago? Oid Gentlemen to disband taa whole army, and turn the grenadiers into seuvengers and dust men? It was useless to make compatisons with ancient es tablishments. All former peace establislimente Welty badly eonsiracted; and lie believed that we owed some of the wars to such calculations ;a-at least some of the reverses of theta. He instaner d the ease of the French fleet of 20 sail, in 1741, anchoring under I/Hugeness; at which time we had only 18,000 men in arms, and eau militia. He contended, that it was out prudent to rely on the appearame 01' security, but to be pre pared fur great events; so that what is at stake may not be lost. The Right Hon. Gentle man denied 'hat the present estimates were for a permanent peace establish me; they were wily for sue year, in consequence of existing circa 'Became , . lea re spect to the :limy in France, he justified the policy of that part of the cstablialmsent being ; besides, theywerekep t there at the expense of the French. This surely would not he an object of disapprobation to any gentleman, because if they were not there, dm country would be obliged to continue the 30,000 men on half-pay and other ulnas:owes. The establish ment of 2i,000 own in Ireland wool not, it WAS hoped, but long, but that the dieturbinices would soon cease. The object of his Majesty's Government is, to take nth meld motions of taxes, including the a per vent. on the Property-tax; so that, taking every thing into consideratioii, the intention was to redeye the b urtheiss eithe people. Tiie Right Hon. Gentleman went over tae items in the estimates, and said, that not one of the ex penses which he enumerated was it possible for the country to do without. The total amount was 1,900,0001. and this not for a standing army. Utit he looked forward to a reduction, when the danger, or ruthei the military spirit haul subsided. Our possessions beiog so v ere extended, we might to be the better prepared for attack. The maintaining of 30 or 40,000 men, mote or l(s•, was of little coasequeliee to a state like eds.— ( How, :ear, from both sidrs.)—Could Members believe that it v. as any pleasure to Ministers to keep up a large Race, if it were not nectesary to perform the misted duty of the country. Mu-, BRIM:MAM could nut eullee.li his indignation at the calm way in which :he Han. Genllrman hod expressed such dangerous doetrinea. It was no; amended by his propagating these to be his own opinions as a Member of the House, aed wd as one Wiles idajesty's slieisters. BM he (Mr. II.) did con eider the Hutu. Gentleneues spuerh as edllSe, , illg the IVIIIiIntS of Mii,istu rs. lie %wild out follow !UPI iu detal, but content hini , elf with sayile; that he writiciaa to the Speaker's leaving the Chair, beeaure the result of that 14.0%enwat must be the de uetimi of the Constitution. Was it any realoo for our lay leg aide oat' peace able :hits, and eetaaiiseing standing armies, because the siatious eau toe continent had become great lei•itary 'Whims? He viewed with jealousy the establishment of ililigtry litiii,htituoth, which mutat AIWA' our untional chase THE NATIONAL REGISTER. t ell , and he viewed also with jealousy the establishment of a Military Association, under the harmless name of a club, which au illustrious Naval Commander (Earl of St. Vincent,) held in such abhorrence that he would not join it, considering it as a 111111011 t not British. He was willing to give the army its due praise and reward for its glorious deeds; but he would have it disbanded, in order that it might not overturn England as well as Boonaparte. An Hon. Gentleman had said—`• Was it to be believed, that the gentlemen of England, officers (tithe army, would turn against the Liberties of their Country?"-- How would such an appeal have been received in former times, even if Lord Cailogan, or Lord Peterborough (the very Bower e•l' Whiggism), had been proposed to command a standing army? It was the yirit of the Bill of Rights, that not a soldier more than was necessary should be kept up in time of peace. The Hou. Genntleinan had said, that our population had great ly increased; but was that then an argument, that we required the assistance of more soldiers? He, for one, could not consent to separate the three great questions—the Treaties—the Peace Establishment and the Property-tax. They were all parts of one system to destroy the liberties of the people, or, at least, to make this country a complete military nation. This country was never in a sitnation less to dread the aggressions of her enemies; and yet this was the period when Ministers chose to propose a military establishment never kept up in any former war. For in the seven years war, when we had defeat. France on every side, our military establishment was one halt than now. The increase of patronage in the army was also dangerous to the Constitution, g.vmg a great increase of power to the Crown. He hoped the House would take care not to suffer this large addition to the power of the Crown ; and guard the people from ally innovation 011 the Constitution ; and not consider the question of money and finance witting, in comparison with first stripping the people of theirrights, and then grinding them in their property. He implored the Noble Lord and Right Hon. Gentleman opposite not to be led away by majorities in that 11011 SC often on their side, when the tea. in and talent were against them. But now the people were re solved not to suffer any more encroachinents on their rights and property. Out of doors a cry had beeu raised; and if they diii not hurry this subject through the House, they %Could have it brought to that House in so firm, and he trusted, so respectful language, that even the cool courage of the Noble Lord would nut be able to resist it. And it there were an honest counsellor about the Prince, that man would tell him this is England, and not Germany; and that if ally one wished to have whiskered hussars and Polish lancers, at an expense of six or eight miltions more a year, it mustmot be done in Eng. tau :l,—( Hear, hear.) LORD PALMEIiSTONE said, the Hon. Gent. had dealt largely in dechunadon and general attack. He had called on the House to refuse going into a Committee. where alone it could be proved that it was nevessary to keep up the large standing force which was pro,..sed. The question 110 W was, not one of danger to the Constitution, but one of finance altogether—a question whether, for the purpose of getting rid of the Income Tar a year or two, the Crown should now be compelled to give up our colooies, those sources of our wealth, to wiuidraw our selves from the Coutineut, to coatioe ourselves to our own is land, to sacrifice our present high rand commanding situation in Enrope, and to become a second-rate power. The Noble Lord obser‘ ed, that the clei:ve of the Army was b,1100,0001.; of this st,ooo,oodl. was expended an pensions, ave. and could scarcely be said to he considered its belonging to the army. A further reduction of 1,0000001. might be looked to in the course of the present year. This would reduce the estimute to some thing less than 0000,0001.; and, when it was considered that the pay of the soldier was nearly double since Mg, he thought Gentlemen could not contend That the proposed establishaant very fur exceeded former peace establi diluents. The furdicr consideration of the subject was (lien adjourned till the next day.—Adjourned at hall-past one. TUESDA Y, FEE. 27. - • Petitions were presented from Kincardine, Whitechapel, Oxfordshire, Christchurch (Middlesex), V. antage , Tavistock, Mallow, York, Merthyr•Tydvil, Royston and its vicinity, and several other places, against the Tax on Property. PROPERTIL"FAX. Mr. Msnnoiras presented a petition from Roston, in Lin coinshire, complaining of the difficulties under which they labour on account of the Property-tax, and praying its repeal. The Hon. Member stated the general distress of the Petitioners, and asked the following questions of the Right Hon. Gentle man :—lf a landlord receives no rent, is he haute to the Tax? If a tenant makes no profits is lie also liable ? and, Is the To; to last for one or two years, se: more?—\o answer was given. Hr, METIIt Es observed, that there did not appear any dis position ou the part of Ministers to modify the Tax; which was, in fact, not a tax upon income, but one upon no income at all. Ile should be glad to know, as the country was so greatly distressed, where the labourer was to find work, or the pauper bread? He should vote against the Tax, because he considered it a tax peculiarly pressing upon that desetiition of persons already overburthened. Mt. Barna:Han lamented that no answer was given by Mi nisters to the questions of his lion. Fi amid ; they were, as had been well observed on a former night, " stricken with dnmh liesS." However; as that was really their infirmity, and tlity cueld not, or would not answer, he begged to suggest to them not to hurry the question through the Houses He warned them against neglecting the voice of the nation, which he believed ivy stared nut neglect. He would use all the forms which the law authorised, to prevent those Right Hon. Gentlemen from stemma% and stillaig the voice of the people; hutl therefore be gave them notice, that upon all occasions vs hen the tax came forward he :Mould endeavour to convince the House that the people ought to he heurst.—i Hear, hear.) Mr. N'AXSITTAIST expressed his surprise at the declaration of the Hon. Gentleman, of threwing impediments in the way of the business of the House ; he did not tear the threat of the Hon. Gent. nor Widt" lie tie deterred from pursuing his duty. In respect to the accusation of not answering tile questions put to him, he only waited till the Petition Was brought np in the regular way to love the answer. As to tie first—whether any modifications would be matte, he wished to observe, that the modilications could oily take place in the Committee upon the Bill, where sue suggestions would receive the deliberate in vestigatioo of the whole House; he' should not then be found wanting in his duty, in attending to any modifications which ought seem necessar!. As to the jilts - lino/lit:OD of (May, he wished to give all possible time the coasideration ; fiat what time would there be, as the Bill must pass before April, of con sidering fully the question, it it sins to be deferred till the mid dle of .dareli. But these were questions proper fur the ecnii• make. I k had intended to propose that the tax should too- Unite for two years, said not hey and ; it being his hope and 'Nish that it. duration should then terminate. Gentlemen had said, that the country Was endangered by the tax—that he must deny; the tau had not ,placed the country iu danger, but the! misrepresentations of its tendency w Well had gone forth, and especially that gross out, namely, that she faith of Parliallient had been pledged for its ceasing with the war.....(//car, hear.) The tact was not so ; the faith of Parliament had never been sopledged, nod the Bill was expressly framed with that stew; for the words " no longer," inserted in the 4cts of 1803 and IMO 6, were ontittli in the Bill of last Session.—(Loud cries a! Hear, hear. ) Mr. Marne sta declared that he objected to the tax on ac count of its inquisitorial tendency. Sir S. Romittr could not listed to the reason assigned by the Right Hon. Gentleman for not giving more time to consider the tax. because it expired on the I fth of April, without ex pressing his sense of the indecency of calling the Parliament together at so late a period ; which cooid base been for no o'her reason than to prevent the ripresentat,ves from stating to their constituents their opinion of the tax. Ministers knew the distresses of the country at the coil of the last session; and were they not bound in candour to have told the country that the tax was to be a permanent one, but they had deceived the country. The people bad submitted, as a war tax, to destiny the power of Bnonaparte. The war concluded with l.r destine tion of that power ; and now it comes out (and the truth could not be too much impressed on the Howie and :he politic) that the tax was voted to keep up a large military establishment !is support Louis XVIII. nod his family on the throne of France, and not for British objects. Let it he recollected, that so large a stamliug army as that now proposed could not be supported without depriving some persons of the comforts, but many more of the eery necessaries of life. The object was, to sup port a monarch who had violated the liberty of the Press, and of elections in France, and conuived at the persecutions of the Protestants.—The Hon. and Learned Gentleman is illustration. of the latter assertion, stated, that in the department of the Gard, all the vilest crimes, even inuidez, had not (seen punished by the Government.-200 persons had been murdered in that department, 240 houses hermit, of which houses were at Nismes ; SO women of the highest respectability had been scourged and hunted in the public streets, eight of whom had died under the torture.--( Ilsar,krue.) Notwithstanding al this, had one criminal suffered? The Government appeared to disregard the conduct of the criminal, and to support covert ly als Mil of religious oppression. Was it so in Fugland dorn g the riots of HMI, w :an the mob destroyed the property of the Catholics? On the contrary . , did not the British Governmeht prosecute to death the delinquents, and institute procee lines against the Lord Mayor of London for his co ward:ce in not repressing the outrageous conduct of the mob % The Gm em inent of France were supine with respect to the Prefect of Nismes, who still I condom] at the head of the Government. It was true, that a Proclamation had been issued by the King, 'toting, that an atrocious crime bad been committed in the De partment of the Garde, in respect to the person of Gen. La garde. Why! instead of one crime, hundreds had been com mitted, and the Government knew the fact. The atoIILISOI of Lagar& was known ; be was one Guassay, a voluni. er serjeant, whs. might be easily taken, and yet the Pref.-et lead made a declaration that he was not known. These were sonic of the strong reasons why ha would not support a tax which went to maintain an army merely for the purpose of supporting on the throne a family with opinions and actions such as he had de scribed. Mr. 1'014 , 41N8Y contended, that if the words " no longer" meant nothing, why did the Right lion. Gentleman leave then& out Of the Bill r But the assurance► of the Right Hell. Gentle man, and his promises und hopes, were delusive, and misled the public. lie stated last %ear, that the /lank Restriction would expire this year, but it had been coutie.ied ; and re could tell him, that his predictions %%me idle. The Property Tax would not expire at the end of two years—it would be entailed on this nation in order to support Ministers io their extravagant esta blishments. Mr. HUMID maintained that the Ministers, perhaps without intending it, had deceived the public; and every Gentleman ho consented to vote for the Tax had been deluded by the Government to decei‘e their Constituents. Lord FoLasTos.E onserved, that the Right Iton. Gentleman wished to shut the doot . , against the voice of the people. He defended Gentletnen en his side of the House front the impu tation) of misrepresentation. Every person who could think and feel absolutely ti. tested the tax ; they had met, and in the constitutional may, by l'etition, but Ministers vs ished to stale the national voice. 31r. CALCRAFT was compelled to state (having voted for the continuance of the tax for one year), that it was under the idea it was to continue thr that time and no longer. lie believed the maim ity of the House thought the same. It was therefore deinsiv e in the Right lieu. Geutlemanov hom he always hitherto thought a plairdlealing man, to come forward with his Bill in his pocket now, and say the words " no longer," were left out ou purpose.—(Naar, heir.; --Why was not he, at the time he called Mr the vote, cmidid enough to tell the !louse so; but ie. stead of so doing, he had deceived him, and the nation in ge neral.—(Hear, hear.) 31r. TIER NEV seashell to remind the Right Hon. Gentleman, when he was talking of inconvenience ha not passing the Act before the sth of April, that on turning to the original Act he found that it passed on the nth of August 1503.—( Hear, heur.) N's:.set TART observed, that it the Hun. Geutlenian had been uaisi d by him, it was wit h out any intention. No sue% words as its tNuntinuatice Mr one year only had taller from his lips, He had oti two occasions, namely, on the 20th of Fe bruary ; and on another, es.pressed his Ii pcs that it might not continue fotmore than one year. He had then stated a case of necessity, which he should have recourse to now ; and if ou tho s e grounds the HOOWI4I4JOItt not consider the tax as jUstithible, he would nut press it.— (JI, ar, hear.) Sir F. BID DVIT could nut help contratidating the country on the encouragement which the Chancellor of the Exeliequor had held out of persevering, which if they did, lie had no doubt would obtain them the object of their desire. The Hun. Baronet stated a case of a landlord, in which it was shewn to the Commisshmers that he derive d no rents or profits from the land, yet he was ordered to pay the Property-tax. He knew another instance of a clergyman with an income worth lotto,. a year, who this year rectivtd only rents, and was assess ed tool, and further to the l'uor's Rates 1501. These sums Ina was compelled to pay,—(Mar, hear.)-1t had heen said that the people had been misled by the Right Hon. Gi nt.; and gentlemen bad complained of being entrapp...d to vote for the measure us a temporary one; now, for his part, he had never been deceived by the Right lime. Gent., fur lie in•ver believed any other story than that the Property-tax was intended to be a permanent inemaire.--them, /vireo—But the Bight lion. °cut. had talked of necessity—clot was the {lea 01 Clarks 1. when he demauded shipdnoney. Ho alluded to the suits or extents issued blunt the L.ehcquer, to the autouLt of 30 %%latch was a disgrace to tlae country - . Why, he wake , !, did out the Governutent make use of that money eoheCtet: a td lying useless, chile the snitois ur claimants were preferring their claims, which they valeta never get. The iinchlinted di vidends was another source of relief. Adverting to the battle 1 of Waterloo, lie said, that ihe battle had turned the right SS , and Ministers like gamesters at card., when their last stake MD in baud ) cried nut, "double or yids;" they played deep.