The National Register. — London, England, 1816-03-17 00:00:00

cou.d not argue on it until it should be proposed to the House w hat :hat e•taidishment was to consist of, There existed such a spirit of political inquiry and research in this country. as weld prevent &neer arising from any standing army that could be kept tip by us. It was true that Napoleon was' in our power, and his arite'es were desteoyed; yet there sti.l existed the instruments of his power--nainely, a spirit of rapine and disorder. among the French people. At the same time, be con. t a t t e red that we l ea d every prospect, from our alliance with the tour crest powers, of be iei able to maintain ourselves in secu rity and peace. But, as to presets e ourselves in that state was our greatest object. we ought to omit nothing which would tend to bemire the peace and happiness of our own country. As to Ireland, he considered the evils ender which it laboared as originating in ignorance and poverty ; and that, to correct them, they should begin by instruction, and not by *anvil), to the Contaiittee proposed by the Noble Duke. The Earl of Ltalltatell thoneht, that in discussing this sub ject it would be better to abstain from mentioning the state of Iretaial; tor the treattneut of that country for centuries had re duced leer to a state too pailifal to he frittered suety in party epiraions in that House. lle could not, however, agree with the Noble Duke that Ireland bad been treated as a compered country, , unless the protection afforded to the loyal and sober. minded (mild be called so. A great evil under which the Irish peasantry Widowed was, t)e,t if they were Catholic' they had to pay two classes of Pastors, both Catholics and Protestants. The fault was not hi die present, or the fortner, Ministry ; but ' had been increasing t ie. a emit try and inure. The evils of le e land had increased since the Resolution of 11188; Mier wind h, she was governed by a set of ignorant Men, who paid no atten tion to her interests, and mils aished tee domineer user her. Put after the volunteers rose for its protection, when the fleets of France awl Spain rode triumphant in the channel, this coun try most liberally gave to Ireland her commerce. But since the Union, the interest of the debt of Ireland hail exceeded the amount of her income. I his had driven away much of the po iodation, and had injured that country severely, by withdraw- Lug from it some of its most powerful landed proprietors. Let this country not neglect Ireland; but look to her as its first bulwark in the hour of danger and difficulty. The Marquis of Decuiseita:st considered that the speech of the Noble Lord who addressed them last, contained in itself the strongest reasons fur agreeing tee go into the proposed COM "flitter. If after that sin ech they refused to inquire into the state of Ireland, it would be to hold out to the population of that country that for ever she should be kept down by the mi litary force of Oreat Britain. In 1782 we enti tested the pee tection of Ireland to her own volunteers ; and what was the reason why we could not trust to the population of that collo try ? Rot the people of both countries had been insulted by being told that the war hail ceased, but that no decrease of their Inialietis was to be the COUSUplellee. This, and the utain teuauee of a large standing army, were also sufficieut reasons for establishing the enquiry sought fur into the state of our ex ternal and internal policy. He wished tee knew why slow, con trary to all former experience, peace should not lee the har binger of economy ? It was because a militaty system of des potism was intended to be forced upon this country. be a work published by the Librarian to the Regent, called a life of James 11. there was a document purporting to be the ad •ice of that weak Monarch to his SOH; he stated that the Ha beas Corpus Act was inconvenient to a Sovereign, as it obliged biro to be at the expence of maintaining a large standing army to keep the people in order. It was sumeahat sleepier that simi lar sentiments appeared to be entertained at present. The country was told by Ministers, that we wet e now at profound peace, why then weie we dein iced of the benefit of such a state? He considered that the r nquiry called for by the Noble Duke ought to be acceded to by the House. Lord BLESSIRGTON approved of the system, not considering it permanent—it was necessary to have a large Military Esta blishment in the oresent state of the Continent: to appe chola danger o the C mstitution from having 150,000 men in arms was throwing it scandal on the army. With respect to the state of Ireland, lee thotight the appointment of 2:1,000 men There was stifficiee t for its safety. He bad every reason to hope, that when a state of profound peace should base pro duced a return of the blessings atteadant on it, Ireland would experience some of those blessings, and be relieved of pint of the borthens which at present press so heavy on the people. Earl BATHURST could not see any practical good to be pro duet dby going into a Committee. As to the agricultural dis tress el the country, it was the same after the American war. In proportion to the length of the war, and the exteat of our exertions, distress of various kinds cutest press on those who have borne largely of those burdens. But lee was convinced that iu a short time our agricultural produce would arrive at its fair proportion of price; and lie contended, that it was not Hue taxes alone ye hick had brought embarrassment sail distress on the farmer. Next year we should have to pay seven millions and a half less than last year. Weald any one then say that our hurthens were not decreasing? Out of those seven mil lions and a lu dlf three millions would be taken off the agrieul tarot interest. The Egrl of CARNARVON contended, that the House should not he led away by the specious argument that the exatninia tims of the cst:•rnal and internal situation of the country should be lift to his Majesty's Ministers. Had Ministers ever applied their attention to such a subject? Our gracious Regent had indeed in his speech recommended economy, but had his Mi. nisters-shew n any wi-h to adopt that recommendation? In •:ead of that, they had pi omised to visit our poverty with a continuance of the Property-tax, and of a large standing 'limy. Next to the heavy loud of toNation, he considered that the agri cultural distress of the country depended on the low state of the currency, owing to the excessit e issues of private banks throughout the country. Even that branch of the subject he thought called loudly en the House to go into this Committee et• Einillify. The Nobs.. Lord (Bathuist) had teemumended our keeping op a large force for the purpose of preserving the balance of power; but the Noble Eatl should have rceollet ted the pm Mils of• kt 'llium and Anne, when we returind with peace to out insular policy ; but whene% e r a new war arose v., I were the more ready to throw our v% eight Iwo the scale of that portion of continental Europe with which we pleased to take Poster for repelling danger and diftieultv came front the people and, with the return of pear,, such power ought alwu.s to return to the people He instanced the danger of snait,t;:uieg a staissriig arm), front the power which Croinwel: obtaao•d through a sonilai hod). Out ancestors were jecons of a %lauding ealo, and so out It we to be ; the more 1411, be 'roost. 40(11 army a ere• kept Si. e years in native, it wend b.• no mole like a I•r. i•t :u•nt) thins an arin) of Russian, wound be He w Ico the It. tight of so),Lug, that be beta vt'll ,lucre nee' was an Aillililiistristion that dared to instil; the cum's.) , with pro' oring such m. 111111.1.e,:te) e•stabttrhwent anti so enurinoo• a 11.1' a period of peace. Every tieing called loudly for the Rowe to go tutu a Committee of En4uiry ; and it %,,t6 due to h e people to ',societal ,u a ieviute their borthens. The Earl of 11 Esll4oliLLA%li di seined from the motion. Eat4l)AnSLas is-.id, that their Lordships could out but CUII-, THE NATIONAT. ItEGISTP.R. skier the great standing arins as coimecteil with the financial :mil other distresses of the cueutry. lie had heard it hail been stated, that the pimple of this country had betrayed an igno rant impatience of taxation ; but he lutist say, that Minikters exhibited an ignorant eagerness to impose taxes on the people which could never be realized. lie took that opportunity of protesting against the ”stein of the present Government to bear down the naval service, to establish a taste for military show and parade in the country. He cordially agreed with the motion. Lord IA wrooeu agreed with the motion, and took that op portunity of declaring, that what had been said in another House respecting the connection between the Military Es tablishment and the Military Club was a misrepresentation, certainly not intentional. The ilinstrions person (the Com mander in Chief) had exercised nn particular interest in the formation of that society; nor was it connected with any po litical object whatever. He had said this because much notice had been taken of this Club in the most respectable and widely circulated newspapers. He praised Ministers for the energy with which they had prosecuted the late just and necessary war to so glorious a conclusion ; but now that w e had returned to a state of peace, every attention should he paid to economy. The Duke of ligneuitn replied. He considered that the arguments used against going into a Committee were most powerful in behalf of the inquiry be had moved for. The House then divided—For the motion, Contents 71— Against the motion, Non-contents 140—Majority 69.—Ad journed at half-past eleven o'cluok. THEMPAY, MARCH 11. The F.arl of Liverpool delivered to the House, by command of the Prince Regent, the following Message : " GEORGE P. R. " The Prince Regent, acting in the name and en the behalf of his Majesty, having given the Royal consent to kmarriage between his daughter her Royal Highness the Princess rharlotte .Sugusta, and his Serene Highness Leopold George Frederick, Prince of Cobourg, of Saalfeld. has thought fit to co.nnionicate the same to the House.—His ltoyal Highness is fully persuaded that his alliance cannot but be me eepftble to all his Majesty's faithful subjects; and the many proofs which his Royal Highness has received of the affectionate attachment of this noose to his Majesty's person and family leave him no room to doubt of the concurrence and assistance of this House, in enabling him to make such a provision, with a view to the said marriage, ss niay be suitable to the honour and dignity of the crown. G. P. H." The Message having been read, the Earl of la v int Isom. said, the subject of this Message was of the highest importance, and most he deeply interesting 1' their Lordships, and to all classes of his Majesty's subjects. Vs hatever difference of opinion there might he among them on political subjects, they must all fill disposed to concur in such measures as might be best calculated to promote the comfort and happiness of the Royal Family. lte felt it proper and due to say—and he said so, not as using words of course, and expressions of mere compliment, but as having had an opportunity of ascertaining the fart from the best sources of information—that with respect to Ike illustrious Prince upon whom his Royal Highness the Prince Regent had thought pro per to bestow his daughter in marriage, there was on the con tinent of Europe but one sentiment and opinion as to his per sonal merits and respectability; all the foreign Courts agreed in hearing testimony to the propriety of his conduct and the gOOdlieS3 of his character. This was not the time to say any thing as to the provision which it might he fitting to make for these illustrious persons on the occasion of their marriage but he trusted their Lordships would be disposed to place the illus trious persons in a situation Where they would have the free rise of their own income. It was their wish, he was authorized ti say, to confine their expenses strictly within that income. His Lordship concluded with inuvilig un Address to the Regent in reply to the Alessagc, which was agreed to, a in. dis. Lord MONTFORD presented a petition from flue occupier! of land in and about Cliertsey against the Property Tax; which was ordered to lie on the table.—Adjourned. FRIDAY, MARCH 15 _ _ Lord Hor.Latin presented a Petition from the Ward of Cord wainers, in the City of London ; and the Duke of Sussvx one from the Merchants, Banlets, and Traders, against the Pro perty-tax, the latter signed by 17,000 persons ; and also one from the Ward of Fm ringdon Without, and firm) that of Lang bourn, against the Property-tax, the maintenance of a large standing army in time of peace, and 111111CCCSSAry places and pensions. Ordered to lie on the table. The Doke of Sussex considered it as a subject meriting great attention, that the first of his petitions was signed by the very men who in 1798 came forward anti signed resolutions which were the fore•rminers of the ineome.tax. In 1700 the National Debt was ten million ; in 1714 it was SO millions, anti that period first introduced a standing army into this coon try,which was opposed by Mr Shipper], and other members of the other House. In 1760 it was 50 millions, and now it was 850 millions. The House ought to consider the hest means of putting a stop to this enormous profusion. lie could not se parate the question of the Property-tax from the standing army. Such an army was inconsistent with the principles of our Caro- Stitlllloll ; and he particularly objected to keeping an army in France to maintain the Bourbons on that throne ; which was a similar proceeding to that of lantis XV. who armt d to establish the divine right of the Stuarts to the throne of this country. ARMY ESTIMATES. The Marquis of Lsasnowa said, that if he wanted any apology for calling the attention of the House to the reduction of the Estimates hefore them, 1w would find that apology in the respectable petitions before them. It was their duty I. redeem the pledge green to the public, to reduce the taxes ; but instead of that, they had been most unjustifiably called on to increase the public burdens, by keeping up a standing army, which our ancestors would not have endued. lie called ou the Howse to address the Crown, that these Estimates might be revised or reduced. After a very long speech., his Lordship moved an ad dress to the Prince H. gent, stating that they had observed with deep concerti that it was intended to Le. p up a large mi litary establishineut, unexampled in former times ; and pray ing tact be would be pleased to order a 'eduction of that es tablishment, for the purpose of reducing the public burdens. Earl BATHURST had listened to the Noble Marquis with at tention ; but he could not see any great economical advantage that could result to the country from his suggrstions, hasiug, at the Nana' time, a just regard to our own security amid that of our Colonies. The Marquis µ•Et.t.rat.Lv contended that our Military Esta blishment mould ilot give us intheenee on the Continent of Europe; but petit:ors it mas to be kept up to it ail to the Sove ivis of nil ope a great moral lesson that large Military Esta idishmetits at•ete very dangerous. He concluded by supporting Address,lie Lord SIDMOUTII contended that the small Pt ace Establish ment in 1192, mug the haat ut gleet which prevented its t oin making an effectual impression on the Comm( nt at the con ceneement of the war. He suppoited the proposed Peace Establishment in all its branches, as being necessary ft;r the se. curtly of this countr y , and for the immanent of Etia ope. MARCTT Vt. Lord GRENVILLE said, that it was evident the large Peace Estahlishment was not to be temporary, as had been held out, but pet manent. In his opinion,however, the best way of training a British soldier to his duty in time of war was, that.% shrodd exercise the rights of a British citizen in time of pears. There was no danger, at home or abroad, to make the keeping up of a standing army necessary. The Earl of LIVURPOor. was ready to try the question by the policy Which had been pursued for the greater part of the last century. 1 lie Noble Lord then took a view of the different colonies and foreign stations, anti defended the amount of fir re proposed fur curb, upon the same grounds as were taken in the House of Commons when the same question was discussed there. He contend( U. that this country had built its strength and raised its glory upon the imperishable rock of Gibraltar, and our other posseslons in the Mediterranean ; and that any Minister who shotdd fail to provide amply for their security would betray the hest interests of the country. He observed, that a spericncc had shewn that the calm and gentle tide of peace was liable to the stidden . devasidtion of war; and we should lose all the advantages of the costly lessons we had pur chased, if we stripped 'ousels v.; entirely of our arms, before the season of danger was entirely passed. The Marquis of LANSIWN NE replied; and after a short ex planation by Lord SinsitiLcn, their Lordships divided, wino th e H umber,' were--Ayes, present, 27 ; roxie4, 42-69. Noes, present, ti:i; proxies, 74-139. Majority against the Motion, 'W.—Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, MORD tY, MARCH 11. Many petitions were presented against the• Property-tax. Lord ALI-Hone presented a petition from Wellineborongh Town against the Property-tax ; and in doing this, particularly urged Nlinisters to adopt every possible system of remains ; not only in the military', but in the els il departments of tLc State also. Mr. FiNnr.Eir presented a petition from Glasgow in favour of a modified Property-tax, as the hest calculated to rise as income upon the rich and to excuse the poor. Mr. IIttouGHAM repeated IliA former opinions on the subject of exposures of returns, and said, since he last mentioned the subject, it hail come to his knowledge, that in a district within tell miles of town, the returns were regularly sold as ss aste pa per every year; mud he hall ree. oily received a letter from it Commissioner, in the ilktrict alliiiied to, expressing his regret at this cite (once, and sta!iiez that it was the Surveyor nod Inspector of the District (paid ()timers of the Crown) who had done this. The petition was ordered to lie on the table. Sir J. SHAW presented a petition from Queenhithe Ward against the Property-tux. Mr. Trim Nr.V wished to know, when the debate on the Pro perty-tax would come on? Mr. N'ANSMART thought the debate should he fixed for Monday next, as he did not think it was likely the House would have leisure for the discussion in the course oldie present week. ARMY ESTIMATES. The House then went into a Committee of Supply on the Army Estimates. Lord PALM ERsTom moved his first Resolution, that 385,2751. 9s. MI. he grunted for di fraying the expense of the household troops till December, 1816. Mr. CALCH AVIr opposed the resolution, and contended that the reduction of these troop.: to the number they stood at in 1791, was not all unreasonable proposition. In peace they were only useful for parade ditties. He should therefore IPUVC to reduce them one half, which would least them stronger that& in 1791. Lord CAcTLEREAGII apprehended that Ce House had already voted the number of the troops to be kept up. Rut it' this mo tion were entertained, it would be reducing the troops of the line. One fourth of the guards were to be stationed in France. The Noble Lord proceeded to contend, that the proposed mea sure of the Hun. Member was not a measure of economy. It bad been determined by the House, that a evil tin tin ce was necessary ; and the army, as it at present stood, was by no means complete. Wunid it then be economy to discharge •tooo men of the guards, who had cost the country from 5.4. to lOW, each, amid were the best troops in the army ; and farther, to chat ge the country with pensions to the men thus dischau wed ; and still further, to put the country to the expellee of raising and training •1000 peasants at a very considerabie enema - a., and thus to obtain green soldiers for veteran troops, only to sits e an assumed difference between guards and line? 'I he home ser ♦ice required a much larger force now than it did in 1;93. At this time Chatham alone would require 1000 men to do the duty on the lines and fortifications. The Noble Lord also contended, that to attempt to reduce the household troops, who acre all completely accontred and mounted, and to sell their horses at, perhaps, half their 1‘ orth,and then to have other troops to raise, *amid be a measure of false economy bked. I Mr. CALC•R Ayr repeated his arguments in favour of his pre ' position, and contended, that it' the Noble Lord's system were adopted, it would pm against any reduction a hatever. Mr. C. WN nN E supported the amendment. The support of the household troops cost more by 35,0001. than the same num ber of troops ol• the line would do. Mr. Hanuniesst commented upon the introducing of no‘ll names for the national force, bermowiag espiessioos from the French. He WAS at a loss to know ohs these troops were now to be called houscholl troops instm ad of guards. He also wish ed to know what change had taken place in the metropolis since In 2 which rendered nearly double tho number of troops necessary to preserve the peace which Mr. Pitt felt to be ne cessary ; at that period, Mr. I'itt was content whit proposing 4000 men, whilst now we were to have 7600. He (tlr. It.) aas team fol it sits not for the rcsevvaliou of the pm ace that this force was to be kept up, but for the purpose of military pomp amid parade, to insult time fi•elings of the people, and to increase the twat refine and influence of the crown. Mr. C. W , :c..r.E was in favour of the anwildineitt. Gen. LotT contended that it would be unjust towards the guards, and to the public, to diminish this force, which by its services on the Continent, in Egypt, and at NV:lttlino, hail proved itself one of the niost gallant corps in the aunty. No greater her was proposed to be kept up than was noses sary.or than the service pet titriated by them It Sets e4l. Mr. BItIIUGIIAM contended, that the service* of the guarth , , which he had never dispuraged, was no reason foe keeping Hp a larger force than was neees•ary. The Victor, Lord Nel son's ship, had performed most spit whit sersiees-- at the battle of the Nile, of Trafalgar, Kati ut several other places, She bore that immortal hero through great 'Art of his splendid career, and up to the time of his glorious fall, yet the Victory was laid tip in nrdinar), and her crew turned adrift. Lot d CssrrreeAGll denied that the keeping up this force wowil inelo:l , t• the influence of the crown. .I . II,IiNEN %/IS nut yet eons inceiiof the necessity of keeping op this large force of Household Tri‘ops. routd hI ill' .:,id 111;:i the Illf.ll' cicastd uuulbrf , tailias it couftat.;i tiagt We itigu of IMP