The National Register. — London, England, 1816-03-18 00:00:00

ON .. timid not argue on it until it should be proposed to the House what that establishment was to consist of. There existed such a spirit of political inquiry and research in this eountry, as would prevent danger suiting from any standing army that could be kept up by us, It was true that Napoleon was in our power, and his arnuesavere destroyed ; yet 'het a still misted the instrumeuts of his prower-a-namely, a spirit of rapine and disorder,HßMg the French people. At the same time, he con sidered that we had every prospect, from our alliance with the four great powers. of being able to maintain ourselves in secu rity and pears.. Bid, as to preserve ourselves in that state was our greatest object, we ought to omit nothing withal wand teud to secure the peace and happiness of our own country. As to Ireland, he considered the evils antler which it laboured as originating in ignorance and poverty; and that, to correet them, they should begin by imtruction, and nut by agreeing to the Committee proposed by the Noble Duke. The Lad ofLimaniec *ought, that in disenasiug this sub ject it would be better to abstain front mentioning the state of Ireland; tar the treatment of that country far centuries had re duced her to a state too painful to be frittered awey in party questions iu that House. lie could not, however, nerve with the Noble Duke that Ireland had hero treef d us a coilqut conutry, unit ss the protectien afforded to the loyal and :iober minded could be called so. A arca t evil under which the Irish peasantry laboured was, that it they were Catholics they had to pay two classes of Pastors, both Catholics and Protestants. The fault was not in the present, or the former, al ina-try ; last had been increasing for a century and more. The evils of Ire land hail increased since the Revolution of 1088; after which, she was governed by a set of ignorant meta who paid no atteu thin to her interests, and only minim(' to domineer over her. But after the volameers rose eor its prott ction, when the fleets of France and Spain rode tclumphaut in the eheintel, this coun try most liberally gave to Irt laud her cmomeree. But since the Chitin, the interest of the debt of Ireland had exceeded the amount of her income. 'I his had tidy( n away much of the po pulation, and had Mimed :hat country severely, by withdraw ing from it some of its most powerful lauded proprietors. Let this country not neglect Ireland; but look to her as its first bulwark in the hour of danger and diffienity. The Marquis of Be etts maw( considered diet the speech of the Noble Lord who adtlll,,SS , 2ll them last, contained in itself the strongest reasons for at:teeing to go into the proposed Com mittee. If after that speech they refused to inquire into the state of Ireland, it won'd be to hold out to the population of that country that for ever she should be kept down by the mi litary force of Cheat Britain. In 1782 we cotrusted the pro tection of Ireland to her own volunteers ; and what was the reason why we could not trust to the population of that tom try But tha people of both countries had been insulted by brine told that the war had ceased, bat that nu decrease of their hurthens was to be the 1-onset-menet.. This, and the main tenance of a large standing army, were also sufficient reasons fur eaablishing time entails y sought for into the state of our ex ternal and internal policy. He wished to know why now, con trary to all former experience, peace should nut be the har binger of economy ? It was because a nularay system of des potism was intended to be nursed upon this country. In a work published by the Librarian to the Regent, called a life of James 11. there was a document pdrportiug to be the ad vice of that weak Monarch to his son; he stated that the. Ha beas Corpus Act was inconvenient to a Sovereign, as it obliged him to heat the expense of maintaining a large standing army to keep the people in order. It was somewhat singular that simi lar sentiments appeared to be entertained at ',result. The econstry was told by Ministers, that we were How at profound peace, why then were we deprived of the benefit of such a state? He considered that the enquiry called for by the Noble Duke ought to be acceded to by the House. Lord BLESSINGTON approves) of the system, not considering it permanent—it was necessary to have a large Military Esta blishment in the rresent state of the Continent : to apprehend danger lo the Constitution from having 150,000 men in arms was throwing a scandal on the army. lt ith respect to the state of Ireland, he thonelit the ap;ueintnient of 25,00 G men there was sufficieet for its safety. He had every reason to hope, that when a state of proloand peace should have pro duced a return of the blessines attendant on it, Ireland second experience come of those blessings, and be relieved of part of thy horthens which at present press so heavy on the people. Earl BATHURST CORO nut rue any practiced good to be pro duced by ening into a Committee. As to the agricultural dis tress ot the country, it was the same after the American war. In proportion to the length of the war, and the exteat of our exertions, distress of various kinds mast press on those who have borne largely of those burdens. But he was convinced that in a short tune our agricultural produce wonid arrive at its fair proportion of price; and he contended, that it was not the taxes alone which had brought embarrassment and distress on the firmer. Next year we should have to pay seven millions and a ha l less than last year. Would any one then say that our burtlums were not dt•ereasine? Out of demo seven mil liens aad a half three millions would be taken cal the agrieul toted interest. The Earl of CA ITNARVON contended, that the House should not be led away by the specious argument that the examina tion of the esti rnal and internal situation of the country should be le f. to his Majesty's Ministers. Had Ministers aver applied their attention 11l such a subject? Our gracious Regent had indeed in his speech recommended economy, but had his Mi xisters shenn any wish to adopt that recommendation? In stead of that, they had promised to visit our poverty with a continuance of the Property-tax, nod of a large army. X.-..•xt to the heavy loud or taxation, he considered that the nevi• cultural distress of the coentu depended un the low state of the currency, owing to the excessive issues of private banlss throughout the country. Even that branch of tiea subject he thunget called loudly on the House to go into this Commit tee of Enquiry, The Noble Load thatinusl) had recommenden our keeping up a large force for the purpose of preserving the balance of power: hut the Noble Ellll should liave recollected Cie perm& of William and Anne, when we returned with pc nee to our insular pulley ; but wheieve r a new war arose we. were the more ready to throw our weirht into the scale of that portion of continental Europe with which we pleased to take a part. Power fur repelli..g eLoger and difLeulty came fron. the people; and, with the return of peace, such power ought always to return to the people. He instanced the danger ct ' maintaining a standing! RI my, from the power which Cromwell obtained through a enn.lar hotly. Our ancestors were jealous ofa standing army, nod so omriit we to be ; the more so, be cause if our army were kept fii e years he France, it would be no more lik c a Rriti , b army than an army of Russians would be. Pe would go the length of saying, that be believed there never was an Administration that dared to insult the country with ' , reposing such au unnecessary establ.shment and so enormous L ta7.ation for a period of peace. Every thing called loudly the House to go into a Committee of Enquiry; and it was d;r: to tie people to proceed to alleviate their burthens. The Earl of WESTMonrIAND dissented from the modon. Lad IL+ Rh LLY said, that their Lordships could nut but con- THE NATIONAL REGISTER. bider the great standing army as coiii,t ittli the tltianci ii and other distresses of the country. lie had heard it hail been stated; thaf the people of this century imtl betrayed an rant impatience of taxation ; but he must say, that Ministers exhibited an ignorant eagerness to impose taxes on the people which could never be realized. He look that opportunity of protesting it.minst the sysicin of the present Got( rnmeat to bear dawn the naval service, to establish a taste for military. :•how and parade in the country. He corilidly agreed with the motion, Lord Maxims - it agreed with the motion, and took that op portunity of declaring, that what had heen said in another House respecting the connection between the Military Es tablishment and the Military Club was a tnisrepresentation, certainly not intentional. The illustrious person (the Com mander in Chief) had exercised no particular interest in the formation of taut society ; nor was It connected with stny po litical object whatever. He had said this because much not ire had bi cn tals en of this Club in the most respectable and widely circulated newspapers. He praised Ministers for the energy with vs !dell they had prosecuted the late just and necessary war to so glorious a conelosion ; but now that we had returned to a star , of peace, every attention should be paid to economy. The Duke of REDVORD replied. He considered that the arguments used against going into a Committee were most powei fill in behalf of the inquiry lie had moved fin•. The House then divided—For the motion, Contents 71 -- Against the motion, Non-contents LW—Majority 69.—Ad journed at half-past eleven o'clook. THURSDAY, MARCH 1 1. The Earl of Lir.•rpool delivered to the House, by command of the Mince Regent, the following Message : "GEORGE P. R. " The Ptincc RerNnt, acting in the name and on the bchalf.of his Majesty, having given the Royal consent to a marriage between his daughter her Royal itietums the Princess Charlotte Aug u and his Serene Highness Leopold George Frederick, Prince of Cobourg. of Saalfeld, has thought tit to communicate the same to the House.—Hie Royal Highuess is fully persuaded that his alliance cannot but be ac ceptable to all his Mrdesty's faithful subiecta; and the many Irnefs winch his Royal Highness has received of the affectionate attachment of this House to las Majesty's person and family leave him no room to doubt of the concurrence and assistance of this House, in enabling him to make inch a pmvision, with a view to the said marriage, 41.9 may be suitable to the honour and dignity of the crown. G. P. It." The Message having been read, the Earl of Live:newt. said, the subject of this Message was of the highest importance, and must be deeply interesting to their Lordships, anti to all classes of his Majesty's subjects. 11'hatever difference of opinion there might he among them on political subjects, they must all feel disposed to CMICIW in such measures as might be best calculated to promote the comfort and happiness oldie Royal Family. He felt it proper and due to say—and he. aid so, not as using words of room, and expressions of mere compliment, but as having had an opportunity of ascertaining the fact front the best sources of iuformation—i hat with respect to the illustrious Prince upon whom his Royal Highness the Prince Regent had thought pro per to bestow his daughter in marriage, there WAS On the con tinent of Europe hut one sentiment and opinion to his per sonal merits mid respectability; all the fOreign Courts agreed in bearing testimony to the propriety of his conduct and the goodness of character. This was not the time to say any thing as-to the provision which it might be fitting to make for them , illustrious persons on the occasion of their marriage ; but he trusted their Lordships would he disposed to place the illus. trious persons in a 1 situation where they would have the free use of their own income. It was their wish, lie was authorized to say, to confine their expenses strictly within that income. His Lordship concluded with moving an Address to the Regent in reply to the Message, which was agreed to, rein. dis. Lord MONTFORo preseinted a petition from the occupiers of land in and about Chertsey against the Property Tax; which was ordered to lie on the table.—Ad;ourned. FRIDAY, RiAIICH 15. _ . Lord HOLLAND presented a Petition from the Ward of Cord wainers, in the City of London ; and the Duke of St silt one from the Merchants, Bankers ' and Traders, against the Pro perty-tax, the latter signed by 17,000 persons; and also one from the %Vont of Farringdon IVithout, and from that of Lang bourn, against the Property-tax, the maintenance of a large standing army in time of peace, and noneet nary places and pensions. Ordered to lie on the table. The Duke of ScssE considered it as a subject meriting great attention, that the first of his petitions was signed by the %cry men who in 11798 came forward and signed resolutions which were the fore4uoners of the income-tax. I:I 1700 the National Debt Uas ten millions ; in 1711 it was 50 millions, and that period first introduced a standing army into this coun try, which was opposed by Mr Sbippen, and other members of the other House. In 1760 it was 50 millions, and now it was 539 millions. The House ought to consider the best means of putting a stop to this enormous profusion. Ile could nut se parate the question of the Property•tax from the standing army. Such an army was inconsistent with the principles of our Con stitution; and he particularly objected to keeping an army in France to maintain the Bourbons nu that throne ; which was a similar proceeding to that of Louis XV. who arms d to establish the divine right of the Stuarts to the throne atlas country. 11211 Y ESTIMAT FS. The Marquis of 1,A;:s;oriv;;;;;i:1, .0 . 114 if he wanted any avology for calling the attention of the House to the reduction of the Estimates before them, he would find that apology in the respectable petitions before them. It was their duty to redeem the pledge given to the public, to reduce the taxes ; but instead of that. they had been most unjustifiably called on to increase the public burdens, by keeping up d standing army, which our aneestois would not hav e t mimed. He called on the House to address the Crown, that these Estimates might be revised or reduced. After a very long speech, his Lordship moved an ad dress to the Prince Regent, stating that they had observed with deep concern that it was intended to keep tip a large mi litary eatablishment, unexampled in former times ; and pray ing that lw would be pleased to order a 'eduction of that es tsblishmt in, for the purpose of reducing tile public burdens. Eat RST had listened to the Noble Marquis with at tention; but he could not see any great economical advantage that could result to the country from his suggestions, having, at the same time, a just regard to our own security and that of our Colonies. The Martinis IVEI.LESLEV contended that our Esti,. hlishinetit would not give us influence on the Conituent of Lucille; hut pc, haps it was to be :ept Ili , to read to the Sine• reigns of Europe a great moral lesson that large :Military Esta biohmetsts were very dangerous. lie concluded by supporting the Address. Lord Stnstot Tit contended that the small Peace Establish meat in 1792, wa♦ the fazal neglect which pri.‘eiitcd us Emu making an effectual impression on the Comment at the tom niencement of the war. Ile supported the• piopused Peace Establishment in all its branches, Ai being IitTC , SAS fur the se curity of this countr y , and tut the permunegt trawltllility of Europe. MARCH 18. Lord Grp:Ns said, that it was evident the large Peace Establishment cas not to be temporary, a- had been held out, but permanent. In his opinion, however, the best way of Ira g a British soldier to his duty in time of war was, that be should exercise the rights of a British citizen in time of peace. There was no danger, at home or ahroad, to make the keeping up of a standing army necessary. The Earl of eti POOL was ready to try the question by the policy which had been pursued for the greater part of the last I:eatery. The Noble Lord then took a view of the different colonies and foreign stations, and defended the amount of force proposed for each, upon the same geounds as were taken in the House of Commons when the saute question was discussed there. He contended, that this country had built its strength and raised Its glory upon the imperishable rock of Gibraltar, and our other possesions in the Mediterranean ; and that any Minister who shoot,' fail to provide amply for their security would betray the best interests of the conntry. He ol,serveel, that (Npetienee haul shown that the calm and gentle tide of peace was liable to the sudden devastation of war; and see stood(' lose all the advantages of the costly lessees we mud pur chased, if we stripped ourselves entirely of uor arms, before the season of danger was entirely passed. The Marquis of LA N %DOW E replied; and after a short ex planation by Loud Sintwoom, their Lordships d' A.it, a lon the numbers were—Ayes, present, 27 ; proxies, 44 o". present, Gat proxies, 74-139. Majority against the Motion, 70.—Adjounied. HOUSE OF COMMONS, MONDAY, MARCH Many petitions were presented against the Property-tax. Lord .Ir.Tuottr pre , ented a petition from Wellingborough Town against the Property- tax ; and in doing this, particularly urged Ministers' to adopt every possible system of economy; not only in the military, but in the civil deem:meats of the State atm). Mr. Fisnt.r.v presented a petition from Glasgow in favour of a modified Property-tax. us the best calculated to a aise an income upon the neliond to excuse the phor. BUOLG II etreated his former opinions on the subject of exposures of returns, and said, sinee he last nieut;oned the subject, it had come to his knowledge, that in a district w MO* ten miles of town, the returns were regularly sold as wi - iste pa per every year; anti he had recently received a letter from a Commissioner, in the district alluded to, expressing his regret at this circumstance, and staring that it was the Surveyor and Inspector of the District (paid Officers of the Crown) who had done this. The petition was ordered to lie on the table. Sir J. SHAW presented a petition from Queenhithe Ward against the Property-tax. Mr. TIER AFY wished to know, when the debate on the Pro perty-tax would come on Mr. VANSITTART Ilionght the debate should be fixed for Monday next, a% he did not think it Vi as likely the House would have leisure for the discussion in the course of the present week. ARMY ESTI mATEs. The Howe then went into a Committee of Supply on the Army Estimates. Lord l'ALm sTON moved his first Resolution, that 353,2751. Os. tid. be granted fur defraying the expense of the household troops till December, 1,416. Mr. CA teu.trr opposed the resolution, and contended that the reduction of these troops to the number they stood at in 1711, was not an unreasonable proposition. In peace they were only usefid fur parade ditties. He should therefore nm'e to reduce them one half, which would leave them stronger than in litg. Lord CACTLEREAGii apprehended that the House had already voted the number of the troops to b. , kept up. Hut if this !no tion were entertained, It would be reducing the troops of the line. One fonrth of the guards were to be stationed in France. The Noble Lord proceeded to contend, that the proposed Inca sure of the Hon. Member mos not a measure of economy. It had been determined by the House, that a certain force was necessary ; and the army, as it at press ut stood, was by no means complete. Would it then be cenuomy to discharge'looo men of the guards, who had cost the country from 501. to 1001. each, and were the best troops in the army; and fin titer, to charge the country with pensions to the nit II thus discharged ; and still further, to put the country to the espenee of raising and training -1000 peasants at a very considerable expt nee, ;utd thus to obtain green soldiers for veterot troops, only to save an assumed difference between guards and line ? The home ser vice required a touch larger three now than it did in 179. At this time Chatham alone would require ]OOO men to do the duty on the lines and fortifications. The Noble Lord also contended, that to attempt to reduce the household troops, who were all completely ;wenn tied and mourned, and to sell their horses at, perhaps, halt their worth, and then to have other troops to raise, would be a measure of false economy indeed._ Mr. CALCIIAIT repeated his arguments in favour of his pro position, and contended, that if the Noble Lord's system were adopted, it would go against any reduction whatever. Mr. C. It NNE iup Fiurted th e amendment. The snpport of the household troops cot more by 35,0001. than the MIK' aunt her of troops attic line would do. Mr. linocuilast commented upon the introdecing of novel numes fur the national force, borrowing expresz..i.ois from the French. He was at a loss to know why these tioops were now to be called household troops instead ofgoards. He also wish al to know what change had tal.en place .0 the metropolis since 1711:: which rendered nearly double the numb(r of troops necessary to preserve the peace which or. Pitt felt to be ne cessary ; at that period, Mr. Pitt was content with pitqubing 4000 men, whilst now we were to hare 7‘oo. He (Mr. H.) was fearful it was not for the preservation of the peace thnt this force was to be kept op, hot for the purpose of military pomp and parade, to insult the feelings of the p. hplc , and to increase the patronage and inginente of the crown. Air. C. WI;NNE wa; in tinoitr uf ilst anitr.lmcnt. Gelb. LOFT contended that it would be unjust towards the guards, and to the public. to diminish this 111141`, which iry Its services on the Continent, hi Etty pt, ni,d t r Waterloo, had proved itself *roc of the most potion corps :a the riny. No greater number was I roposed to Ito kept up than a ss neces sary, or thin' the service pet termed by them deserved. Mr. Boor 6/1 A M contended, that the str% aces of the guards, which he 11,41 uevi. r disparr.4eil, was no least's for See;da.:: up a larger force than was necessary. The N. ietory, Lent Nei eon's ship, loud performed most splendid serviet'.4—at the battle of the Nile, of Traficgar, .mil at several other plata 5, she bore that immortal heto through great part ci his splendid career, and up to the time of his glorious 11111, yet the Victory was laid up in ordinary, aml her crew untied adrift. Lord CA BTLER F.:.1011 deoird that the keeping ep this force would increase the intluenee of the crown. Me. Tisnaev was not yet convinced of the necessity. of keeping up this large force of Household 'froops. It could not be said that Cie state of the metropolis required the in creased number, unless it was coalessed that the reign of the