The National Register. — London, England, 1823-02-24 00:00:00

_ ~, Mr. CURTEIS asked when Ike Turnpike Act Autondsormt Bill might be expected.? Mr. F. LEWIS rep d, that it would be ready to be pre sented io a fortnight. Mr. CURTLIS presented a petition from hop-planters of Dinitneld, S , praying a repeal of the duty. Mr. RICARI)O inured for an seronitt of the quantity of gold Imported into the Miut front January 1b22, to January 1623.—Ordered. Mr. C. 11.1IUTCHINSON, in presenting a petition, said that the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in withd-aning the Silt Drawback, &c. had considerably injured the Provision Trade of Ireland. The petition required, that the drawbacks should be restored. The withdrawing of auch drawback had etfected the provision trade of Ireland, without benefitthig, any other classes or interests. The petitioners prayed the continuance of the Is. drawback, so long as any part of the duty existed. Sir J. NEWPORT said, lie had similar petitions to present. lie also observed, that while England and Scotland Led been relieved by the alteration of the Salt Tax, Ireland had derived uo advantage. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER observed, that it was hardly to be expected that so much benefit could In given to the empire, without injuring the peculiar trade of a particular part of Ireland. The subject merited cons.deration, and it would give him infinite satisfaction to agree to regula tions restoring to the provision trade of Ireland the advantages takes away h• the Acts of last Session. There was, however, • dilic•lty is one of the articles of Union. The Petition was read, and ordered to lie on the table. Mr. CALVERT presented a petition from the inhabitants of Southwark, complaining of heavy taxes, arid various other grievances, and praying for the repeal of the Septennial Act of the Assessed Taxes, and for reform generally. Sir R. WILSON with great pleasure supported the petition. Tile petitioners felt, that this country could only regain its strength by means of reform, and this they deemed to be the more aeees►ary when they beheld as daring a conspiracy as was ever formed against public liberties. Mr. CALVERT said he had been desired to move, that this petition be referred to a committee of the whole house, instead of requiring that it should tee laid oe the table, where it would never be heard of more ; but as there was a motion eonuected with the subject likely to be made at no distant day, he should for the present move that it do lie on the table. Ordered to lie on Ike table, and to be rioted. Mr. HEATHCOTB presented • petition from Boston, against the Insolvent Debtors' Act, which stated, that the debts released amounted to 11,000,000!., while the dividends were only 60,0001.—Ordered to be printed. POSTMASTER.—Lord NORMANDY wished to know whe ther any 'flops had been taken, pursuant tore address of the Louse, to reduce the office of the second Postmaster ? Mr. PEEL replied, that one very material alteration had taken place—no eatery had been granted since the resolution of the house. ORDNANCE DEPARTMENT.—Mr. RIME rose to bring for ward his motion respecting the Lieutenant-General of the Ordnance. The military commiasiou bed been extremely well appointed, and the reports that Board Lad made merited atten tion—they were made in 1811. They .examined the several departments of the Ordnance-office, and staled, that within the last few years the salaries of the I officers had been con siderably increased, in general one third and ups. Inds. The duties of the several officers were next examined, and it was found that many of them were neglected. The Surveyor Ge neral and the Clerk of the Deliveries tro longer performed the ditties which originally belonged to them. The Commissioners recommended that there should be a Board, as was the case at the Admiralty, &o. They then particularly enquired as to the duties of theLieoleuant-Veneral ; and it was found that such officer had no duty, except attending the Board, should the Master-General not be absent. There had been no alteration of the offices. The opinions of the reports were clear entmb, recommending the *oppression of the offices of lieutenant-ge neral and his two clerks. It was remarkable that the present Illaster•Gatentl had been absent three or four months and that there was so Lieutenant-General, The reports were agaiost the continuance of the office, as forming no essential part of the Board. His complaint was, that scarcely any of the re oommendations of the commission had been carried into strict, and the qiestioo sow was, whether there should be Ave com missioners whes four were deemed necessary ? Were more cot missiosers wanted here than were required for the navy If the vote respecting the two extra Lords of the Admiralty last Sessio• were right, his present complaint would be sup. ported. The Navy Commissioners cost 40001. while the Ord nance Board cost 62501. If the Lieutenant General of the Ordnance had been reduced, the salary of 145901 would have been saved ; so that the difference between the expenie of the two Boards would have been not so great. After the promises of the King's Speech, and the recommendations of the Re ports, it was en insult to the Parliament and the People to itunke this appointment within 24 hours of the meeting of that House—.(Ciuserts.)—lf the House were in earnest in desiring that no expeodituie should he encouraged, except what was requisite to the dignity and service of the country, they would support his motion.—lt was the most extravagant establish ment—the Irish establishments excepted, and it ought to be cat down. Sir. Crewe, the Secretary, for inshore., bad J 1,5001. a year, and a house that cost 1,21)01. a year. Ile did Sot blame Mr. Crewe ; he was right in getting as much as he meld—but they were to blame who gave it. Other abuses were, that individuals were appointed to this Depattment, and sent to Madrid and other places. Those were injustices to the country ; but there was no department that required so touch looking after as the Ordnance Department. Ile also nom plained of the two Establishments at Pall sMall and tlic Tower ; they ought to be brought tinder one head ; for persons had been paid " travelling expences" to go from one ulhoe to the other, rand twelve or fourteen clerks to curry on a correspondence between the two offices. ( Hear! ) There was no end of the multiplication of expenses. The recommendations of the Reports had been wholly neglected. It was necessary, in his opinion, for the House to express a decided opinion on the subject ; lie therefore moved that the appointment of Lord Rtresford, in time of peace, was inconsistent with the recom. mendations of the Commissioners of Enquiry, at variance with the professit.ns of economy, and made without due regard to the situation of the country.—( Loud cheers.) Mr. WARD replied, contending that the hon. member had misrepreeentrd the Report; that the Commissioners of Inquiry, in their Het rim had misrepresented the evidence on which they proceeded (I eon ; and that the alterations in the Board recently had render, d further charges unnecessary. The right hon. gent. (Mr. Ward , gave his strong and decided negative to the motion. Mr. WI I LI A MS, of Lincoln, strongly supported the motion. 111 r. CA:' RING contended, that all the statements of the ban. niers!. r was unfounded and erroneous. . Mr. JA I% ES MACD IaAI.D but:gelded, that the proper mode of r o. ceding woull be to appoint a committee to inquire into the pr. t riety of aboliehing this office, and the hon. member Proposed at. it as imaidiniat oche mum. - Y , t •J - i~ N . 7i!': THE NATIONAI AEGL Mr. HUTCHINSON supported the original motion. He had never seen any good result from the appointment of com mittees of inquiry—they generally reported, and their reputts ended in nothing. The gallery was then cleared, and Mr. Macdonald's amend ment w..s negatived without a division. The house then divided on Mr. Hume's motion. For the motion. 73-. Against 14200—Majority. 127. The other eructs were disposed of, and the house adjourned at eleven o'clock. THURSDAY, FLO. 20. Mr. Brown, Warden of the Fleet, presented returns of the number of Prisoners committed to the Fleet Prison, pursuant to previous order. The Thames Navigation annual accounts were presented. Various petitions agaiust the Insolvent Debtors' Act were presented from Leominster, Huddersfield, Beverley, Black hum Sc. Mr. H. DAVIS presented a petition from St. Stephen's, Bristol, praying for the repeal of the House and Window Tax. Mr. Alderman WOOD moved for returns of the persons discharged from the King's Bench, Fleet, sod oilier prisons, within the bilk of mortality, during the last four years, and the sums for which they were discharged.—Ordered. Lord C. MANNERS presented a petition from Linton, Cam bridgeshire, complaining of Agricultural Distress, hot et the sumo lime expressing perfect reliance out the wisdom of that Ilouse as now constituted. Such reliance had induced the pe titioners to abstain from attending the meeting at Cambridge. Ordered in lie on the table. Mr. HUTCHINSON presented • petition from Upper and Lower (irmoude, County of Tipperary, praying for au alters , lion of the coroners' Act of last Session. Mr. GENE l' (Wilts) ob d, that the Turnpike Act had been much misunderstood, and presented petitions front two places in Wiltshire, praying for an alteration of snob act. Ordered to be printed. Lord DUNCAN NON presented petitions front Walton, com plaining of the Hawkers and Pedlars', and of the Insolvent Debtors' Act.—Ordered to he printed. Mr. MAXWELL presented abetition from Renfrew, com plaining of Agricultural Distress. Sir T. LETHBRIDGE expressed his approbation of the pe tition, and said the Agrieultnrists required and were entitled to relief. It went to the point in issue ; •arious classes were set against each other ; and be trusted the petition would be read by the whole House. Uiiliout respect to the question of agriculture, he could not but think that the Ministers would yet see the necessity of doing something for those interests. Lord A. HAMILTON also spoke of the extent of the evil, and linked, if the present state of agriculture continued, who • ther there was any chance of avoiding the extirpation of the lower orders of the farming interests.—Petition ordered to be printed. Mr. BROUGHAM asked whether there was any truth in the alarming rumour that was prevalent here and in France, that the Brest Fleet had sailed with sealed orders t Sir G.CIAARK replied, that Po intimation on such subject Ind reached the Admiralty. Mr. BROUGHAM said he was glad to hear thus mach. He bad called the rumour alarming, because it would hare been a circumstance calculated to interrupt the peace of the world ; it was not alarming as elected this country, for England, thank God ! bad nothing to fear from the sailing or the Brest fleet. Lord A. HAMILTON asked whether there wu any thing in point of time, whether there was any thing in the circum stances, to prevent hiw from agitntsug the question of Mr. Bowring's Imprisonment. Mr. CANNING replied, that in point of time, there was no objection ; it would be for the noble Lord to eiereive his dis cretion whether other circumstances would warrant the agita tion of any such question at the present moment. PARLIAMENT/INY RETUalvs.—Lord J. RUSSELL rose to more for a Committee to ascertain what were the Charters, Zee pursuant to which Members were relented ; and he was sur prised to lean; that such motion was to be resisted. Other similar motions had been agreed to, and why was this to be opposed? Lord A. Hamilton had granted him • list of the voters of Scotland ; Mr. Bennett had procured the returns of tire Members who held offices ; and in the Lords there bad been a Committee respecting the dignity of a Peer. Lord Redas dale, he believed, bad drawn up the reports, which were re markable for every thing bat their soeuraey.—(A inush.)—As so much had been divulged, why was be to be refused ! The information he required by this motleys was generally knows ; but he wished it to be known more accurately. Injurious re ports were calculated to affect the obaraeter of the House; and it was requisite to show how far the motion for Reform was or was not warranted. 'Were they afraid that the composition of the House should he known I—(Hear.) —Heretofore the opponents of Reform had taken higher posed ; but he felt as sured that he should have the support of every independent man in the House.—(Hear, hear.)—He concluded with mov ing for a Select Committee. Mr. CANNING said, in opposing this Motion, he should not be drawn into the larger question. He was against it, be cause, if it were acquiesced in, it would be inferred that su much progress had been made io Reform. The motion would be most tyrannies! and arbitrary. What right had they to call for the Charters of offending Corporations ? 1 here had been nothing like it since the reign of James (I. when the Charters were called in and examined.—Did they recollect, that in those Charters much property depended ; and did they want to give Attorneys, who might have no occupation, and who bad a de sire to enquiry', some occupation. Lord J. RUSSELL did not desire the production of the Charters. Mr. CANNING said, without the Charters, he did not see how accurate information could be obtained. As to the Bo roughs, Old Sarum, &c. he was ready to admit all the Noble Lord wished to lissome ; and continuing to hold the same opi nions on the subject of Parliamentary Reform, be was prepared to maintain, that the House, as constituted, was best suited to the pnrposes for which it existed : the cloinAit could not be effected without occasioning dangers w Well it is nut worth while to run. The close boroughs were admitted—the small number of the electors were admitted , therefore, as far as admissies and concession went, the Noble Lord had all that he Gould require. Tire question could not be eraarted without raising enquiries respecting Charters, which would be prejudieinL Under all the circumstances, he must resist the motion'. Mr. ABERCROMBY said, that the opposition which hd been urged, imaginary as it was, bad hardly surprised Ida. The first objection was imaginary ; the second was much elt• aggerated. It was imaginary to suppose that the people weed,' infer by the grantinl of this motion, that the question of R.• form Was about to be eotertained by that House. They ball got like relent* respecting Scotland--but bed airy body thence in't'erred that the Reform of Scotland, its burghs, &c. WAS nearer at Land. If the ppblic would draw such interim°, Imposing the motion to he granted, it wee proof, which 6.2lleved to he the case, that there wan a predisposition . ~ to whin did not nisi before, to entertain the question of Ream. It was Nether true, that if the wain. were granted s .:4l might laduce many to look at the question of Rforen is eferay that they bad before rieded motion could be easily ad duced. If the motion were granted, however, he daunted not that it would essentially serve the ultimate question of Itelorin —(I/ear,)—and if the motion were refused, would nut every man ask himself—Whist I are the House of COIIIIUOIIII en aftaid of having their composition known, that they refuse eveu such preliminary enquiry t—( Cheers.) Mr. PEEL said, that the'arguineists of Lis right host. friend bad nut been weakened. If en argument were to he founded on the small nniubers, supposing the alleg ations were conceded, what more could be required ? As to the precedent, there was none. What similar Committee had been required, respecting • Scotland 1—( Hern-.)—The motive world prejudice that dis cussion of the Reform question which was about to take place. Lord .1. RUSSELL said, lie via. kept to precedeet for Soot land " Returns," not a Committee were required ; but if the Government would consent to Returns, he would abandon his motion furs Committer.--(Hear, hear.) Mr. PEEL replied. that when the Returns were moved fur. he should be prepared to express Isis opinion of it. Mr. CREEVEY spoke in throne of the motion, conlendieg that the House had just as much right to the Returns as to the Population Returns. Because the Minister chose to express Isis opinion against it, tlic House were not to have the ininium tiuo ; but would not that be an estraordinary reason far re fusing the motion? Because the Minister chose to say, he would concede this information or that fact, were the House to Le contented without more specific informatioa ? Such informa tion would be most useful, and it was necessary, for sow the boroughs were regularly bought slid sold in open day, and that by peers. The philosophical member—(e bugle)—for Bodmin (Mr. D. Gilbert) bad cosy the other day—he spoke from (i.e Papers—handed over • borough of freemen to a noble peer, and that peer went down to take posses/in of them as he would of his estate.—( hear and Inaghter.)---He dined i would not be creditable to the Hone to resist this motion. Lord MILTON supported the 'lselin, essintaiaing that the Re tight to be accompanied with amounts of the direet taxation of the Boroughs. The Gallery was then cleared for a di•ision-- Ayes 90—Noes 128--Majority against it 38. The other orders of the day having beee disposed of, the House adjourned. FRIDAY, Mt. 21. Col. Wdrre, for the County of Dublin, and three other members, took the oaths and their seats. Mr. Loaglands presented the anneal accounts of the India Dock Company. The Carnatio Commissioners Accounts were presented. The required Returns from the Fleet, King's Bench, leo. of person discharged from those prisons for debt. Ordered to lie on the table. This being the last day for receiving petition for private bills, a good many were presented. A new Writ was ordered for Riegate, in the room of 1. 8. Cox, Esq. who bad accepted the Chiltern Haadreds' !Reward- Sir E. KNATCHBULL, in presetting petitions, asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he bad any objection to a com mittee of Enquiry, particularly into the difficulties of thi, bop trader Those se/grilles were great. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER repilod, he was not prepared to give an off-hand answer—that he did not see the oecessity of such special investigation ; but that the best course would be to move fur such a Committee, if itovere deemed necessary. Sir E. KNATCHBULL said, that if some relief were sot afforded, however painful to himself, he should f ;el it his daty to call the attention of the House to the subject. lis then resettled several petitions from hop growers, &c. io Kent. Mr. PRICE presented the Hereford Petition ;—it was moved by Mr. Charlton which bad been carried—it was not that of Mr. Cob' , ett. Mr. Charlton's petition had been supported by many of the customary friends of Ministers ; and he felt, wide the petitioners, that it was requisite to do something for lb. relief of the country, and of agriculture in particular. H. bad no hesitation iu pronouncing this to be the petition of die comity. The petition was read at length.—Ordered to he printed. Lord MILTON presented • petition from Sheileld fur the re • peJ of the Insolvent Debtors' Act. Lord I'OLKSTONE pre/ogled, pursuant to notice, a pethios from a Mr. Thompson, which he considered so important that he should move (Jr a Committee. The petitioner and his father had been wine merchants, and bad realized considerable pro perty. In 1811 an estate was purchased in Hertfordshire le die amount of 92,0001. paying down 5,0001. but the title being objected to. the business went into Chancery, where it remain ed till 1819, the vesder in the Rican time receiving the rents.— The decision was favourable to the vender, but the purchaser had not then the means to pay. lie paid interest, in all about 18,0001. and though he could not get more than 20,0001. for it. he was called on to follil the purchase. To do so would ruin him, compelling the sale of estates, an the amount would be 73,0001. ; and yet the ruin would not be the consequence of any fault of his own. The purchaser was not • rash speculator so. cording to all be could learn, and what remedy could he afford ed he would not now stste.—Petition ordered lobe printed. The lions. went into a Committee of Supply. Sir J. OSBORN moved the Navy Estimates. He should call fur 2.1,000 instead of 21,000 men ; the necessity fur such increase was the additional se: vice in the West !edits, Medi terranean, &c. Ile rimed Um great of 25,000 men for the Navy. Mr. BROUGHAM dld not rise to object to the vote, indeed he was surprised that the vote was not for a larger number of stamen. lie said thus much on account or the alarming aspeet of Foreign affairs. Ile knew that they were not precluded front moving an additional number of men, should cireninstancee equire it; but he was fearful 'cat Governments abroad might inmr that they were now positively naming the number for the year. Mr. CANNING expressed hiciscknowledgments for the manner in which the learned gentleman come fu. nerd. The note no more limited the *LIN, et. than it !nulled the ciquirity the couniry.--But ho win sore that mire (tom I would net be desired. Discussion Could not do more good tin hit had done. He felt assured of the resources of the country, should circuses, . require them, especially so long as piddle credit was maintsiaed. Resolution agreed to.--Report on Monday. THE BCDGET. The House went into n Committee of Ways and Minos. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he had volontorily undertaken the office which be now tilled, coil spoke in high terms of lime integrity and talent of his peed"- . eessor. He should bare occasion for the indulgence of tbati Committee, am: dochtleas lie should have it, He A 0.214 en. ( For eon/Mines /n ref pwr 112.)