The National Register. — London, England, 1821-06-03 00:00:00

Mr. M. A. TAYLOR said he could not withdraw his motion. The ATTORNEY 0 r.NERA observed, that the plans proposed went to model the whole of the Court of Chancery. As to the business, there was Hut that delay which was on puted ; there were no bankrupts' petitions, and no cause set down last term 'indisposed of. The business bad been gut through with great rapidity and aatisfactium Mr. LOCKHART was astonished that any one coati] say, that to call on the house to consider the question next session would be to cast an imputation on the court. The enquiries in the courts of equity were surrounded with difficultlea ; they were attended with enormous expences ; all England knew these facts to be true. The institutions requited revision, and to say so was not to cam auy reflection on the court, or those practising in it ; but certainly the motion did not merit the stigma of the " previous question," —if met at all, it ought to be by manly negative. Mr. Serjeant ONSLOW could not agree to the motion, on the single ground that there bad been delay in the Court of Chancery. He agreed in the necessity of the atnended motion for the previous question. Mr. W. SMITH supported the motion, and thought from the declaration of the noble lord, that the wonder was that there was nut mote appeals, was in favour of inquiry and change. (Hear, hear.) It was admitted that the Chancellor's Mainstay only prevented more delay and greater difficulties. After some further observation the house divided on the motion. The numbers fur it welts 32—against it 56. Lost by a majority of 4. Mr. MA II ERLY then bronght forward his motion re specting Irish Exchequer and Treasury Rills; the hon. member urging that the bills of both countries ought to be placed ou a similar footing—that no undue advantag e ought to he given to either.; and submitted a motion, th e effect of which was to seetat e such impartiality. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER explained the system of these bills, and contended that there ex isted no intentional advantage ou either side. The house eventually divided ou the anotiou. The numbers were—ayes 31, Noes 64. THE GRAMPOUND BILL—Lord MILTON moved, that house should agree to the Lord's amendments on this bill. Mr. WYNN wished to add an umendineut to those of their lordships, namely, to divide the county of York, and to provide that each division should send two members, instead of the whole county sending four, as proposed by the bill. Air. S. WORTLEY objected to the bill altogether as amended by their lordships. lie declared his &termina tion to take the sense of the house on the amraidnient. Lord LONDONDERRY was in favour of the amend ments to a certain degree, and would rather agree with Own than risk the loss of the bill. He could not agree with his lion. friends' Yorkshire feelings, that the tither branch of the legislature had no right to iiiii!rfele with the form of representation adopted by the Douse of Com mons.. _ . . . . . . Lord J. RUSSEL agreed with the noble lord in opinion, that it would be desirable to piths the bill, to 'hew the people were determined to do something in compliance with the wishes of people; and thei elute, although the amendments were destructive both of the noble lord's opinion and his own, still he would support them rather than tick the bill. The anieudinems were ultimately adopted. The bill was then ordered to be carried back to the lords. _ . Lard MILTON, iu consequence of this bill having now passed, gave notice that it was his intention to-morrow to move for leave to bring in a bill for the more convenient taking of the poll, iii the election of knights of the shire for the county of York. (Hear.) The ConsTairrioNAL AstioCiaTion.—The Marquis of LONDONDERRY having moved, that the report of the committee of supply be now brought up, Mr. BROUGHA:vI rose to call the attention of the pause once more to a society, the existence and nature of which he had occusion upon a former evening to bring tinder its notice. He held in his hand a letter which had been diets dialed among its members, and which purported to he a copy of another letter, a circular. It Caine from "The Bt idge-street Committee-" And what was their object ? Fit st, to expound to the magistrates the law of the land in cases of libel. They enclosed in this circular o copy of a pamphlet, composed under their auspices, and costmining their expositions, their digest of this law, for the guidance of the magistrates. (Hear.) But the object which they had in this circular ventured to avow was sot to be passed over. (Mr. Brougham then read Rum a paper)—" Sir,—lii pursuance of the 4th resolution of the eas"—but the house ought to kuow that this was signed by • Mr. J. IS. Shaw, who styled himself " lloinuary Assistant Secretary," was dated No. 6, Bridge.street, Ulackfriass, and addressed to the ningis tiates—(lieur, hear)—to the magistrates of England ! " I am directed by the committee to transmit you a copy of the address of this society. In puisnanee of the 4tlt resolution of the address," (the magistrate being thus desired to take notice of it)—" the committee have found it nee( ssaty to institute several prosecutions against per sons engaged in the sale of lifallous and seditious works, sonic of which prosecutions have been abandoned upon the parties cup; easing their contrition." In God's nestle, to whont—to whom were they called upon to express " their contrition i" To Mr. J. B. Sharp mid lids coin millet, forsooth ! (A laugh.) Bat this was not all: the association was nut sati.diill with convictions, with the surrender upon oath of the dangerous and disaffected venders of seditious publications, and with these expres sions of contrition to Mr. J. B. Sharp ; but the parties were requited to enter into an engagement never again to drive the same nails.. (A laugh.) And now he (Mr. Brougham) should like to be informed, if there were then present in the house any member a protector of this constitutional association. (Hear.) He defined to know upon what authority it was allowed, under such a govern :tient as this, where regular offices and forms mac pie set veil, where there were too such law officers 118 the A (tut ney and Solicitor General, hitherto not slow to de tect, our remiss to proceed against such °deuces; while there was a Simi etas y of State nut tardy, up..ii 4 lounce ..ecasiun, to expound the law (hear, hear), and slot back ward in issuing his cirenlars too likewise to the magistrates of this kingdom (hear, lit ar, hear)—a Secretary of State not backward in ransmittisig Isis expositions upon matte's of this kind, iu a way which, thongli it had been considered by some not to be very legal, was now admitted to be such by the emu is ; iwd a Inch at all times, its lice eye even of those who must doubted its legality, would be held a much mum regular • THE NATIONAL REGISTER and constitutional proceeding than this; in short, in a country where there was law officers, he wished to know by whose authority it was that this self-constituted, this unknown association, came forward with the ',limiter ad d►ess to the magistrates. tie thought he had now done quite enough in mentioning this matter once more to stop the course—to say no worse—the gloss impropriety or this association. None of the least evils of that association was the circumstance of itt nnuthering among its members sornewhare about 40 peers of the realm (hear, bear, hear) who were thus lending their names to a set of men capable of using them for these purposes. He would beg to know what chance of a fair trial would a poor man have, before a jury taken nut of the neighbourhood of some great mall, a member of this association, or who might ever happen to be part 01 his tenantry. The Attorney General had the power of suppressing the proceedings of this society by entering a mile prosegui upou all their in diatments. . . Mr. SCAR LETT, after the speech of his hon. and learned friend, felt enabled to add but little to his exposit of the mischievous which might result from this association, with however good motives individuals might have enrolled thrus. selves in it. Where the Attorney General was concerned the proceeding was regular; where the party aggrieved pro. secuted, the defendant knew his prosecutor, la these cases on ill- contrary, in witirlr the constitutional association in terieled, the prosecuturs were unknown; uo names were avowed, and saute of them might be upon that very special jury which should try the Wience charged against the delete. bear.)—The hon. and learned gent. coucluded by saying that there was nu person who had considered the question in a lebal or constitutional point of view, who did not concur in condeioniugsuch an association. . . Mr. WAIIRE expressed his surprise that this association, having been pronounced illrgal by what he considered the highest law authority in that house, no member of his Majesty's go vernment had offered a word of explanation on the subject. The Marquis of LONDON DERRY observed, that nit very - far back in the history of the country, when associations had been foamed, and great names subscribed to those associations, for the prosecution of individuals, not indeed for the cold crime N' libel, but on a charge for murder (cheers from the ministerial benches), and lie considered that the influence of those associa tions arid of those great names were as much calculated to preju dice the minds of the jurors against the parties who might have been tried, as much as in the case to which the hub and learned gent. (Mr. Ilmughani) referred. Si , J. SEBRIGIIT expressed his entire cuncurronee in the opinions which had been given by die hon. and learned gent. respecting the self called constitutional association, which has taken upon itself the task of teaching magistrates their duty.— Ile for one would dispense with the instruction of such a body, which he considered as one of the most illegal and unconstitu tional which had come to die knowled,ge of that house. The SOL ICITO It GENERAL said, that in the absence of his learned friend the Attorney General, he could not avoid making a tew observations to the house, and he could not avoid also expressing his surprise that the association should have been called illegal. Ile differed wholly from this opinion, and would take it upon himself to say that in that society mere was nothing illegal, or at all contrary to the spirit of the constitution. Were they to believe that die association of person, (Or the prosecution of offences against die law was of itself a violation of that law ? Ile maintained that such an association was not illegal. Of the policy of it he begged to he understood as not giving an opinion. Lord MILTON said, that it had been stated that there were some eases of libel which it might not be proper for the Attorney General to prosecute, and he ( Nord Milton) admitted the fact but this was one of his objections to the •• associatioo," that they would not make such distinctionsi The motion fur bringing up the report of the committee of supply was then o ut and agreed to. 111 r. BROGOhN brought up the report; and on the question that the first resolution be agreed to, Mr. HIJME objected to going at that late hour into the report of supply. lie therefore moved as an amendment that the report be received to morrow. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said if the object of litho hon. member was to adjourn the consideration of the report till to morrow, he should have no objection. The report was ordered to be considered to morrow. The committee on the metropolis police bill was postponed till Tuesday next. .Mr..IAM FS moved that the house be counted. . _ _ Mr..l.sxirrii requested that his bill might be suffered to pass through the present stage, as it must otherwise be delayed ; 0 1 next session. The bill was then ordered to be engrossed and read a third thneon Mondey next. Ater a few other orders had been postponed, Mr. JAMES said lie could list sit there, and see public busi ness disposed of by so few members; he therefore moved that the house be counted. There being fewer than 40 members present, the house adjoumel. Y, MAY 34. The Irish prisons' bill went through a committee.—lte port 10-morrow. The public coal-yards' (lrdain') bill nns read a second tune, Mr. BROW NLOW presented n petition from Michael Daly, of A:it:nigh, against the Cidoners' Jury (Ireland) hill. Mr. H U FCIIINSON wished to know whether the Coro ners' Jury Bill was to be pressed forward this SeebiUll j he thought at would he better to delay. It. MARTIN replied, that he had nut brought in the bill at 1.1, oas it kuo,gcst ton ; it was at the request of the county which he represented.—Aftcr the experience they possessed he thought lie was not nskiug WO much iii proposing that the cortmets should give kecurity. There was nut UJ Irish gentle man in the house who slid um know that many of the coro ners were insolvent. As to postponing the bill he was ready to acqinesce in the request ; but he could not answer fur other gentlemen. lie, however, pledged himself, in the event of the bill not passing this session, lie should move next session fur a conionittt e of inquiry into the subject. Mr. D. BROW N E spoke of the insolvent state of many of the coroners. Galway, tor instance, had been sued tor 0001. a coroner's debt. lie knew of mulling lake a regular elect ion of coronar iu Ireland. Mr. BELCHER wns futuur of the pu,tponement of flit hill till next arA . Loral hIILTON presented an enorani.usly long petition ft the ounnufactui ea s, wadstuplets, .of the cloth hall) so the West 'tiding of 1 c, pa uyisig the house to ropeal the additional duty oil the impoitution of foreign wool.— liead and ordcreil to lie on tax utiles _ . Lurtl IIILTON love 11UlitC o 1114114/11 Wetinehtl.ty, June t, he .buultt more f‘r Ie the to bring iu u bill to repeal the additional tax tin the itupot tation of foreign .101. ' Mr. J. P. tiltA NT moved the secuud reading uf blare rentuvul bill. Mr. C. W. W YNN said, be was urged tts white:tie the cause of 3t6 darts, 'marbling of seers, women, and child' en, the removal or wlww trout the plater of their birth wAs the " I ti vel or this bill. Ilc Inld a pttiti &&&& in (bell Num plfsllllll4llll.'d StcNbtlt. lf tbu bill um' In object would he to postpone that measure for the acrom phshment of which they 100 l been so desirous. He then pro• seined the petition ; the object of l lie bill w:is to enable Mr. Maxwell to transport those slaver Irvin Antigua to a British settlement on the contiocnt of South America. The peti• tion was then tend. Mr. C. W. WYNN moved that the petitioner be allowed to be heard ageing the second reading of the hill. if he so thought fit. Mr. BROUGHAM said, he was quite astonished at the moton submitted to the house; it was characterised by 'milling but mere novelty. There was 110 precedent for it ; mud the principle of their proceedings was against it. lithe precedent were established, what would be the result ? Whatever question might be brought forward, there would be penions representing themselves to be the next friends of parties particularly concerned. If it were established he should not be surprised to behold at the bar persons des. cribing themselves to be the next friends of the " msrrprc• seated classes," and contending for the necessity of Parlia mentary reform. Tuey might do It with considerable ability, as well as at no ordinary length; and if this motion was to be agreed to, what was to prevent such a proceeding t Mr. P. BUXTON supported the motion. He did not think it was sufficient opposition to it, to say that it was a novel motion. ' The gallery was then cleared for a division. The numbers were, Ayes 45.—Noes 154 —Motion lost. Mr. J. P. GRANT, un our re-ents ring the' gallery, was pobli.ouing the second reading of the bill; it was ordered to be read a second time to-morrow. HOLY ALLIANCE CIRCO LA R.—Mr. S. WORTLEY said, a ithin the last 24 hours there had appeared a circular from the Monarchs on the breaking up of the congress at Layb.ich. In the course of it, it alluded to a declaration; and as tie deemed that declaration to be of the inmost framer. once to the liberties of this country, he wished to know whether it was authentic. Lord LONDONDERRY replied, that such declaration had been communicated to this Government. It was not strictly official, but it was authentic. Mr. S. WORTLEY said, as its authenticity was admitted, he should on Tuesday next move for its production. (cheers.) INDEPENDENCE OF PARLIAMENT.—Mr. G. BENNETT rose, pursuant to notice, to bring his motion for leave to Introduce a bill for the securing the independence of Parlia lucid. In the t nay history of the cuarstouli iiii mid of that house, particularly in the CIO ly c iiiii esti between the crown uud the people, they found the house jealous of the introduc tion of place-men into that house as evincing the influence of the cm Nn. To check such exercise of the inflnenee of the crown various acts were passed. The most memorahle was the act of settlement, which said that persons accepting offices under the crown should not hold seats; but clauses of that Act were afterwards repealed. In the 15th of Geo. 11. Mr. Pelham, whose reign was far too short, a bill was carried, which was calculated to clear the house of clerks and underlings, to leave only the peat officers. Bid after wards, by inames ' ement, such regulations were lessened 111 efficacy. They had in some degree reformed matters with out—hut they had not looked at home. They bad voted that the influence of the house had increased, was Increasing, avid ought to be disniuished ; but there the matter was suf fered to rest. The ministers were supported by their sick battalion. They carried their motions on one hand, and succeeded in resisting motions on the other by means of the creatures of ministers. If be were to examine the recent majorities, be maintained that they were carried by memo of those who were at the nod of the ministers. This @hewed the necessity of cleating the house of clerks find underling.—. of persons who were there only to enable ministers to carry on what they called the government. He did MN know why they should have all the lords of the treasury.— The Chancellor of the Exchequer and two Lords, one for England and another fur Ireland might be necessary; but as to the vice-trratairer of Ireland, fur instance, he did not know why they were to be luvoured with his company. (A laugh.) Next came the board of controul. He would retain the president in the house, and turn out all the rest. Out of the twine, the rest were useless; in it, they were worse thus useless. The several boards only nppeared to be useful to vote fur the ministers as desired. 'three fourths of them took no part in the debates; they were only aroused by the rousing calls of question, who were ready for any and all estimates. They acre dead votes for the ministers; they might be steady and good adherents of ministers, but they were bad members of parliament. The admiralty presented its lords, and this ordnance had four members in that house.— He proposed to leave two of them. He 'ameba for retaining the paymaster of the army, &c. but why was the mast. r of the mint to have a seat in that house ; be did not see that such officer was useful there or ill the cabinet; though he should be sorry to le .e the hon. member. And he was at loos to know silty they should have any of the household officers. The hon. incitiLsr adverted to other public offices ; and finally stated that the plain whirl. he proposed would reject Y 9 out of the 51 public officers and placemen, also now held seats in the house of coinnions. Ile concluded with moving fur leave to bring in a bill fur the better securing of the independence of parliament. The Him. F. ROBINSON opposed the motion. The lion. member had saved him the trouble of discussing the principle of the bill, by admitting that it was advantage ous to the public service to have certain ministers of the crown, athl ecrtaiti officers of government, in that house; and the questieu then reduced itself into one of The several officers had frelsiently been the subject of discnssion in parliament, and the t apedicucyof admit ting the huldcts of cerlaiii places to retain their seats had been acktiowleilged. As to the conseipiences of such ar rangement, lie thought it was merely begging the question to infer that, because certain gentlemen held certain places, they must necessarily be corrupt. Mr. DAVIS supported the motion. The house divided. 'Cite nuothe.s were for the motion 52—against it 76. ltlajority agniiiiit the minion 91. Moue OF ELFCTION.—Lord MILTON their moved for leave to bring in a bill to replate elections fur the coitaily of Tusk. 'lime plait was that the poll should be takes' at the city of York, nod nt three oilier places iu the comity ; that the polling shouted continue at illy Same tone ; that the shored blivuld be assisted by three vice she' .e. Tile Mai pus uf LONDON D ItY begged nut to be consideted mi acquiescing in the plan which) went to let in SO nut el a 111.410 of taking ihe pion: Motion agreed to. CRIMINAL Lawso—sir J. NIAUINTOSII inured that tile Forget y Prinishmeet :Uteri:dims Report be taken into norther eunsidcrwlit.o on Monday next. Mr. 111 illUktsT asked, w hether the liqf leg of checks On iOWII ur Cuillitiy baukers tame to be exempted froisi the upciatitru of ;his bill. (For Loottowaso. so. ' , oft 174. I , - • - lip- •