Star. — London, England, 1821-06-26 00:00:00

/ ,~ . • % 16 .- • • ‘IONJ •••• .• countries, w. anck substitute . a division by articles. At pW'Seiti t , b•Cotitd not . bstill articles, the produce of Asia, Africa, or America, 'into this country, except directly from those countries respectively. tie would place this part of our trade on the same free footing as the less extended trade with the different countries of Europe. He had no apprehensions that the carrying trade of Great Britain would be injured by it. lie bad been informed by persons of the greatest autho rity, that, for cheapness and security, a British ship would be always preferred, particularly: for long voages. British vessels had been introduced in the North with success, where the cheapest shipping in the world were to be found, and, instead of dimi nishing their footing there, the vessels of this coun try were gaining ground. Upon this part of his state ment he did not mean to rely ; he only threw it out for the present, in order to enable the House to come to a better judgment on any future discussion. His object in all these regulations was to secure to this country the continuance of those commercial advan tages to which she owed her superiority by sea. He was not insensible to the truth, that these advantages were not sufficient in time of war. He would, there- fore, add to them the securities of peace, and would propose a moderate duty on the produce of Asia, Africa, or America, coming into tkis country from European ports, just heavy enough to prevent an ha bi'ual trade from being carried on in this country, and just light enough not to be felt as a prohibitory, or even a greatly restrictive duty. All the advan tages which he had now enumerated might be com passed by a very few enactments. This brought him to the statement of his last measure—namely, the carrying into effect the principle of making this coun try the commercial depot of the world. The Right Hon. Gentleman dwelt upon the benefits which re sulted to countries, in a commercial point of view, from becoming depots of this description. The be nefits which would accrue to Great Britain from car rying into effect this principle, were so many, -and so obvious, that it was•si matter of astonishment to him, that it should never have been recognized until the year 1303. They should recollect that it was only in as much as the commercial world would de rive advantage from this country becoming the grand depot of nations, that she could expect herself to obtain any benefit by it. •He always thought it monstrous that we should deprive ourselves of all the fruits that would spring to us out of our being made the depot of the world, for the purpose of prevent ing foreign goods from coming into our markets.— The new regulations which he had now opened to the House would apply to all commodities whatsoever, the enumerated articles only excepted ; and the rea son was this—that had he excluded them for any reason other than that they were excluded before, he would be prejudging the great and interesting ques tion as to the propriety of continuing the Transit Duties bearing on foreign goods. He did not wish to offer any opinion upon that subject, and his aim was so to frame these Acts that no opinion would be conveyed or implied upon the subject of the Transit Duties one way or the other ; so that after his Bills were disposed of, the subject would be as open as be fore for discussion. This additional measure would embrace the following regulation :—That all goods, when imported into this country, should be divided into two classes—the first class would include all goods bearing the highest duties, as interfering with articles of our own manufacture—that all these goods should be confined to warehouses of a particular de scription—docks or wharfs, or such warehouses as, by certificate, the Lords of the Treasury might think it proper to appoint. The goods being under the care, exclusively, of particular officers, would be ex empted from the weighing, Etc. when taken out, and not be made liable to any of the usual deficiencies. The second class of goods should be placed in ware houses of a less secure description, and in all cases of suspicion should be liable to re-weighing. He would wish to take the average of deficiency occurring on goods of the same description for a number of years, and allow that extent of deficiency to all goods of the second classupon their being removed from the ware house. This statement led him to consider the sub- 1 ject of docks. He felt the advantages of docks to the revenue, and to the merchants. But all these advantages, it appeared to him, might be secured, by keeping tip a fair competition between docks and general storehouses. The latter regulations he would comprise in one Act. It was not his object to push these measures this Session. Between this and that period there would be abundance of time for the due consideration of them in detail. The Committee would see that the effect of these measures would be to do away with prohibitions of every kind. He was sensible that prohibitory laws were wholly unavail ing. There was scarcely any article prohibited from use that was not to be obtained at a trifling advance for risk. More than this—he had reason to know that a demand for articles had been created by prohi bitory laws, and when the laws ceased, the articles were entirely neglected. The Light and Harbour Dues operated most prejudicially to the interests of this country. He had received a letter from one of our Consuls abroad, in which he stated that several of the merchants' on the Continent had, in conse quence of the exactions just alluded to, adopted the plan of prohibiting their Captains. of vessels from coming into a British port, except in cases of immi nent peril. On every ground, therefore, he looked I forward to the abolition of those duties with the' greatest satisfaction. The Honourable Member con cluded by moving the following Resolutions: 1. That the Chairman of this Committee be instructed to move for leave to bring in a Bill to repeal certain Statutes re lating to the Import and Export of Alerchandizes, so far as re lates to Duties imposed thereon. " a. To move for leave to bring in a Bill to repeal certain Acts, and to explain and amend certain other Acts to regulate the Import of Merchandizes into this Country, su far as relates to the Countries from which they come. " 3. To move for leave to bring in a Bill to make effectual certain Acts relating to the warehousing of Goods coming into Groat Britain, and securing them without Duty." The first Resolution being read by the Chairman, Mr. SYKES said he would express no opinion upon the view opened by the Right Honourable Gen t eman. The changes now contemplated were of the greatest importance, and he knew that the utmost anxiety was felt by the shipping interest, lest any mea sures should be proposed tending to open a competi tion between foreign shipping and the shipping of this country. He feared that the competition would be injurious to the British interest, for he could not con cur with the Right Honourable Gentleman, that a British ship was the cheapest vessel that could be employed by foreign countries. The dearness of la bour and of materials in the building of vessels ren dered it impossible that they could compete with fo reigners in cheapness, although they might in strength and workmanship be f.tr superior. He felt that the House ought to weigh anxiously and tenderly any measure that would have the effect of altering the present system of our Navigation Laws. Mr. WALLACE explained. He wished to say that the British built ships would be preferred to all others for long voyages. Mr. D. BROWNE wished that the Transit Duties , on Irish Linens should be taken off. The Members far the North of Ireland were particularly intereted in this. Mr. BARING said, that if the House should sanc tion in another Session this measure, he hoped they would not allow a clamour about linens to influence 'them. On the contrary, he wished that they should not allow the small portion of the trade of Ireland to be destroyed. Every man must allow that the labours of this Committee had been most beneficial. Persons abroad did not know what our Commercial Laws were; and therefore it was of the utmost im portance to simplify them, in order that foreigners might know what theycould, or whatthey could not do. Mr. WALLACE said, his proposition was to be a general one, except as to Irish Linens, which was al most the only exception proposed in the measure.) But if that would be injurious to Ireland, he was sure the House would reject it. Mr. MAILRYATT 'defended the Navigation Laws as being neither inconsistent nor unjust. They were meant only to give a preference to our carrying trade, both for our own Colonies and to countries who had no shipping of their own. Through these laws we had arrived at a pitch of naval superiority, such as no other country ever enjoyed; and we ought to be cautious how we innovated on these laws, w hich had been established by the wisdom of our ancestors. The alteration in our Navigation Laws uow proposed would ruin our carrying trade, and the superiority of our navy. The West India trade was far more va luable than our East India with all its sixty millions of population. They should consider that they had an immense debt and taxation. He was reminded on this occasion of the opinion given by the cele brated Mr. Porson, who, being cut out at a card party among some friends, was requested by the Lady of the house to compose some verses while they played. He asked for a subject, and the Lady told him to suppose the Devil roaming about the earth, and making his remarks on the various actions of men. Mr. Porson undertook the task, and among the verses he composed on the occasion were the fol lowing lines: " With wind and with tide. " Down the river did glide, " A pig with vast celerity; " At every stroke • " It cut its own throat, 4 ' So great was its speed and dexterity; " And the Devil did smile, " For he thought all the while " Of England's commercial prosperity t" The Devil (continued Mr. Marryatt), delighting in mischief, smiled to see that the exertions of the ani mal to support itself only, hastened its destruction, and this he compared to tfie commercial situation of England. The Hou. Member then proceeded to argue on the danger of the proposed alterations in our com mercial system, and in conclusion expressed a hope that the House would not consent to the repeal of those laws which had hitherto been the sheet-anchor of England's commercial prosperity. Mr. Serjeant ONSLOW supported the Motion. Mr. Porson must have alluded to the restrictive laws on commerce, which certainly had operated in the same way as a pig cuts its own throat in swimming. Mr. HUME was surprised to hear the Honourable Member (Mr. Marryatt) advocating the continuance of restrictions on our commerce—a thing which every man almost in the country knew to be injurious. If these proposed measures were put in force, he was satisfied we should much increase our commerce, and also maintain our maritime superiority. The Honourable Member might be interested in the West India traffic, and therefore he might speak from partial views. Mr. WILSON would agree to taking away all re strictive systems of commerce, if he could be sure other countries would do the same. The Resolutions were agreed to ; and leave was given to bring in the Bills. PUBLIC ECONOMY. Mr. MABERLEY wished to know whether it was intended to act on a spirit of economy in the next Session ; and what measure the Noble Lord meant to propose ? • The Marquis of LONDONDERRY could hardly understand the nature of the question ; he therefore thought, that Government deserved credit for a re duction of £1,970,000 in the present year. He hoped that next year there would be some substantial reductions. DUKE OF CLARENCE'S ALLOWANCE BILL. The CHANCELLOR of - the EXCHEQUER moved the second readirut of this Bill. Mr. H. G. BEN N ETT rose to oppose the Motion. He knew of no grant ever made in that House which met with so general disapprobation. Between that place and Charing-cross, if every human being that could be met were asked his opinion, there would be but one sentiment, that the House had come to a vote of the most unprincipled character. He would take the sense of the House on the question. It was his full determination to divide on every stage of this Bill ; and he should now move, as an Amendment, that it be read a second time that day six months. Mr. C. F. PALMER seconded the Amendment. He was accused of having supported this grant—(A laugh)—though he had in every stage resisted so abo minable a wasting of public money—(llear, hear). Lord A. HAMILTON thought the mode in which this grant had been originally introduced extremely objectionable. A grant for any branch of the Royal Family ought to have been proposed in the most gracious manner. But founding on a vote of three years ago, and dime Parliaments ago, what was called arrears, was extravagantly irregular. Upon what grounds were arrears due to the Duke of Cla rence? How long had the Public been indebted, and for what services had they been, and were now indebted to his Royal Highness? The House was placed in an awkward situation : they were now dis cussing a grant, for which the thanks of his Royal Highness had been conveyed through the Noble Lord. . This was quite ridiculous. Either the [louse had now no right to withhold the grant, or the thanks were; premature. He was sure no kind of precedent could be found for this proceeding. On every occasion Ministers made professions of all practicable economy, but he knew of no instance of voluntary economy on their part. They admitted the difference in the value of the currency. It would better become them, there fore, to consider, not whether new grants ought to be given, but whether grants already given ought to be reduced. If they continued to pay public salaries, grants to the Royal Family, and the Civil List to their present amounts, they could not support public credit. This measure was not just towards the House or the Country. He was astonished to see a smile on the face of the Right Hon. Gentleman (the Chan cellor cf the Exchequer), for this was not only the last matter, but he was the last man that he should have suspected of anything of this kind. He (the' Chancellor of the Exchequer) had been the author, and for many years the defender of the notorious re solution, that the currency had not been depreciated, and now he was the defender of the directly contrary doctrine. He would vote on this question, as he was compelled in duty, not in inclination to vote.— If his Royal Highness was fairly entitled to £6.000 a-year, and if his debts required further aid from Parliament, an application ought to have been made in fair and proper terms, and for fair and proper purposes. The House, his Royal Highness, the Public had not been treated fairly. If the present grant had been proposed on real and proper grounds, he was not sure that he would have opposed it. He would now give a vote in favour of the Amendment, al• though most painful to his feelings. Sir JOHN SEBRIGHT agreed in all the objec tions stated by the Noble Lord (Lord A. Hamilton), though he could not vote against the second reading; and be agreed with the lion. Member who moved the Amendment, that this grant excited universal dissatisfaction. He had not met with any Gentleman of any rank, or of any party (and he had heard many speak of it who were connected with Government), who had not considered the grant of £lB,OOO as most improper in itself, as unconstitutional in its mode, and as a waste of the public money.• He would vote for the second reading, because he would support the grant of £6,000, but he thought the grant of £1 8,000 most improper. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that he perhaps met with different society, but he certainly had not known any point on which men were more agreed, than that his Royal Highness should have the sum formerly voted. The House then divided— Ayes Noes Majority for the second reading - The Bill was ordered to be committed to-morrow. CANADIAN CLAIMS. Mr. ELLICE wished to put a question to the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, relative to the claims of certain persons in Canada for supplies given, and losses sustained, during the late war with America. He stated that the claimants had applied, in the first instance, to the Governor of Upper Canada, who ap plied for instructions to the Government at home, and, by the authority of the Colonial Department, a Commission was ap pointed to try those Claims, consisting of the Chief Justice of UpperiCanada and others, who drew up a Report which was made to the Governor, and transmitted to Great Britain. By this Report it appea red, that the Claims originally put in, amounted to 2,824, the whole amount of which was £400,000; of these 600, amounting to £171,000, were rejected, and 2284 allowed, amounting to £229,008. The Report having been transmitted to the Secretary of State for the Colonial Department was taken into consideration, and the Lieutenant-Governor of Upper Ca nada was directed to issue a Proclamation, setting forth that payment would be made of the Claims allowed by the Commis sioners, in order; first, those for supplies; secondly, for rent of premises occupied by Government ; thirdly, for compen sation for losses sustained ; and, fourthly, for actual contracts. The agents of the claimants in this country, had recently had an answer to an application made by them fur payment from the Lords of the Treasury, stating that they could not grant at pre sent any money—an answer which contradicted the proclama tion. He wished therefore to know what the Government in tended to do on the subject? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIIEQUER replied, that many of these claims were disputable; but that such of them as should be recognised by the Governor should be paid. EAST INDIA TRADE BILL. On the Motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHE QUER, the House went into a Committee on this Bill. The House having resumed, Mr. BRIGHT asked, whether the additional duty of fiv.; shillings, which in the Bill was to attach to cloyed sugars from the East Indies, would attach to the sugars now imported from that quarter? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that in the opinion of the Law Officers, the sugars now imported from the East Indies were not clayed sugars. The duty was imposed as a protecting duty, in case clayed sugars should be imported from the ' East Indies. Mr. BRIGHT said, that the sugars which were brought from the East Indies were to a certain degree refined, but there could be no process for refining sugars adopted in the West Indies, which did not subject them to an additional duty of five Shillings per cwt. The measure by which the East India sugars were not charged with a proportional duty, was a measure of injustice to the old West India Colonies, in favour of the East Indies. Mr. HUME said, at present the East India sugars were charged with a duty of ten shillings per cwt. to which the sugars of the West India Colonies were not subjected. The People of England, who were thus compelled to buy their sugar at the worst mar ket, had cause to be discontented rather than the West India planters. Mr. W. SMITH asked, whether the additional sugar duties in the Bill were continued for one year only ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, they were. Mr. W. SMITH said, it was not worth while now, when so little time remained for discussion, to oppose the continuance of the duties ; but he hoped the sub ject would be taken into consideration at an earlier period of the next Session. Mr. BARHAM said, this country was bound to the West India Colonies by good faith as well as policy. The West India Colonies had the exclusive possession of the British market as matter of right, by a contract of deeds, as Mr. Fox observed in 1782, when the first attack was made upon the Colonies, which was better than any contract of words. The Cohinists had given a valuable consideration for that possession, and they enjoyed it by virtue of Acts of Parliament, which was all that could be said even of the public creditor, to talk of touching whom was thought so dishonourable. The first attack made on the right of the Colonies was in 1782, when Lord Beauchamp (present M'a:.quis of Hertford) propto allow the I , rize sugar to be introduced into t h e British market. That proposition, though i t came strongly recommended by peculiar circunmantec was rejected. In 1792, an attack was again m a d e : and now the East Indians, allied to a set cf Gentl e . men whom he did not mean to treat with disrei m but who were known by the name of Saints —( laugh)—had renewed the attack upon their joi nt ac . counts. As to slavery, its character ssas vanishin g the West Indies, and a change in the condition ord e slaves was going on as rapidly as was consistent wi t h their interests. fhe humanity of the Gentlemen th e made their attacks was local. In the West Indies th ey could not bear the sight of a whip, thou g h i t v ia , never applied but to punish crimes ; but in the L ast Indies they could bear the sight of hundreds of wome n roasting by a slow fire, and cried, ‘, Don't let us say a word, for fear of the Brahmins r Mr. J. SMYTII protested against the as sumed right of the West Indies to the monopoly of the E nz . lish market. Mr. BERN AL said, the question should be viewed as a whole. If the duties were proposed to be tak e , * off the East India Sugars, he should move to repe a l all the restrictions on the trade of the West Indies. Sir ROBERT WILSON took occasion to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer, or the Colonial Sem, tary, whether it was the fact, that the black popular Lion in Jamaica had increased no less than 35,000 within the two years Ilona 1815 to 1817, whereas that populaticn had not increased more than ]5,000 within the twelve preceding years? This, if tine, must be considered as a suspicious circumstance; but before he made any further remark, he thought it his duty to require some official information apoa the subject. The CIIANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER sad, that being thus suddenly called upon, he was unable to give the gallant General the information whichhe required, but that either himself or his Honourable Friend, the Secretary for the Colonial Depurtinea, would take care to seek that inform a tion by to -mot. row evening. Mr. GOULBURN declared, that he was not at present enabled to give any satisfactory answer to the question of the gallant Officer. But lest Anita pression should go abroad, from the gallant Officer . ' statement, that there had been at Jamaica any viols. Lion of the laws for preventing the importation d slaves, he felt it his duty to say, that. such an imp& Ision would be quite contradictory to all the °MEd information and experience which he had had win respect to that island. There was, indeed, no growl' whatever for any suspicion upon the subject. Sir ROBERT WILSON observed, that suchanio. crease of the slaves as he had mentioned must, onal hands, be deemed very extraordinary; and the statt , meat which he had made he had received from Gentleman who was concerned in the Jamaica tra& Mr. W. SMITH thought it impossible that sacs an extraordinary increase of the black population/ Jamaica could have taken place without becominga matter of notoriety; and therefore he rather presume that the gallant Officer had been misinformed. After a few words from Mr. BRIGHT, the Bill u ordered to be recommitted to-morrow. AUDIT OF ACCOUNTS. On the motion of the CUANCELLOR of the Excel QUER, that the House should sesolve itself into as Committee upon the Audit of Accounts Bill, Mr. BENNETT complained of the way in whia' the House had been treated on this occasion, by tie subject being delayed to so late a period of the Ses sion, when those Members who were most compete to discuss the subject, were unavoidably absent. Tie Hon. Member proposed a classification of the counts, and a general revision of the whole systes The present Bill sinned on the score both of canissis and commission, and proceeded on the Lisbon mode' of auditing accounts. There was no regular system. but the whole was an office of departments without management, without a head, and without control The Hon. Member proceeded to read the evidence of Serjeant Praed, in confirmation of the view be had taken of the subject, that the public accounts could not be properly audited on account of the interference of the Treasury, which he was quite clear ought to be narrowed and restrained. He commended tla alteration which had taken place in not paling till Commissioners according to the number of accounts they had concluded, which rather tended to fill the pockets of these Gentlemen than to sift the public accounts. Ile then objected to the mode of maki4 out the public accounts, and to the fees paid. — A clause should be introduced to abolish fees, as bad been done in the case of the Courts of Justice in lie land ; and he hoped the Chancellor of the Exchequer would not object to the introduction of a clause of tba nature. For fourteen years Lord Moira had in ks hands1:10,000 of the public money, and it might hal remained much longer, but for an accidental dig' , very, and for which no interest had been paid. the same time, he imputed no blame to Lord More but the conduct of Government had been most unie. tifiable, in not demanding the interest of the most The Hon. Member then adverted to the case of Be gadier-General Nicholson, and to a case of deficient of £114,000 in an account, which, owing to the negl" gence of Ministers, although the deficiency ucctin t s i in 1796, was not inquired into until 18 19 ; by d a l negligence on the part of Ministers the Publ ic ? suffered very considerable losses. The Hon. 6 6 ' tleman concluded by protesting against the Fel t measure, as inefficient, but he would not opeatcw e motion for the Speaker leaving the Chair. Mr. BANKES defended the conduct of the Com missioners of 1810 and 1811, who had done thew of most to elucidate the subject ; and they had WI, assistance from the Chancellor of the Excheq ue l that day. The Hon. Member for Shrewsbury lis f , complained of the increased expense of the 4!tri Board. The fact was, that the expenses of the Boa t were estimated too low at first. With respect to complaints of the Hon. Member of the non-p m ' Lion of evidence, he might have had them by tn 00,14 for the Minufos, as Mr. Serjeant Pracd had Sta< that he could furnish the substance of the documents, if time was allowed him to prepare tr e, With respect to the ine ffi ciency of the present nlea 93 . 0 ' it would, at any fate, do good as far as it went,.. ` . if it should appear not to go tar enough , i t might 71 Session be revised and improved. As to th e pt escei Audit Board, he was free to confess there was mu principal b r to blame in it, but this was caused