Star. — London, England, 1821-06-02 00:00:00

r and said he wisid from the countersue:- 444. tions mask on one side and the other of the House, the stkongestNreistn why this Bill should he sent up'' to a-COnimittee. He efitensd into a statement to jus tify the passing of this Bill ; and added, that among the other conditions to vihich Mr. Maxwell would con•eitt to be bound for this privilege, was this—that any slave in his possession might have the power of claiming his manumission, who paid in money his own value. Sir I. COFFIN was persuaded, that if the slaves were as well acquainted as he was with Demerara, they Would sooner cut their throats than be removed to that Island.—The House then divided— For the Bill Apitut it . Siaj!why 47 95 -31 MTV/Xi AND MEANS. On the return of strangers to the gallery, the CHANCELLOR Qf the EXCHEQUER was moving the Order of the Day for the House resolving itself into a Committee of Ways and Means. Mr. HUME complained, that the papers respect ing the Fibance of the country were only given to a few favoured individuals. He knew it was a favour to receive them at all, bat be thought the Public ought to have them. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the papers had been printed late that morning, and he was sorry they had oot been distributed. Tait lIIROLT. The House then went into a Committee of Supply, The CHA NC ELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that the Estimates having been for some time on the table, the time was come for him to make the annual statement of the expenses of the country, and the Waypand Means to meet them. He should have wished to have stated them more largely, but a re cent calamity would prevent him. He then entered into the following financial statement, which, he con tended, would produce a reduction of £1,600,000: 1820. 311rPLY. 1821. 9,443,243 Army • . - - . 8,750,080 8,586,695 Navy - - . - 6;176,700 1,199,650 Ordnance • - - 1,195,100 5,444,100 Miscellaneous - - - 1,900,000 19,673,688 1,000,000 Interest on Exchequer /Ms 410,000 Sinking Fund on - 18,021,900 1,000,000 • 290,000 21,033,688 • 19,311,200 iry reduction of Unfunded De 9,000,000 Irish Treasury Bills - 500,000 Bilk for R►lic Works 606,400, 706.400 50,043,61111 20,018 : 2 0 : Granted fur WAYS AND MRANS. Estisnatehe 1820. 14 21 . 3,000,000 Annual Taxes - - - 4,000 2,500,000 (Rada Duties) Tea Duties - _ 240,000 Lottery . - Cte,ooo Old &ores 1,500,000 200,000 163,400 Surplus of Pecuniary Indemnity, pay able by the French Government 500,000 199,000 Exchequer Bills for Public Works repaid 125,000 Surplus Ways and Means, 1520 • 91,630 .4111•••11.11•1• 6,570 030 Sinking Fund Loan, viz. 12,000,000 Great Britain Britain . 12,500,000 / 13,000,00 . 500,000 of Ireland, Increase of Capi. tai - - 500,000 Tilsit Currency being in Uritisb Currency ,0005 ,000 Loan 12,000,000 17,000,000 Fooling Exchequer Ws 461,53 3 ° ,1381 " UNFUNDED DEBt—tsso. 2°,144569 Exchequer Bills, 1 Geo. IV. - - 19,000,600 Irish Treasury Bilk, 1 Geo. IV. - - 1,500,000 &chequer ails, for Public Works, isc. - 106,400 16/FUNDED DEBT.-11121. Exchequer Fslls - - - irieb Treasury Bina - - 30,708,400 29,000.000 1,000,000 By reduction of Unbuidnd Drbt 30,000,000 706,400 30,706,400 The total amount for the year in expenses would be 19 millions. The House had already granted the annual taxes, and a credit had been taken on them for four millions, being nearly a million more than last year. This was done on the temporary Excise Duties. Upon the Lottery he took only £200,000 ; and on Old Stores he took only £163,400. The amount of the French Debt was nearly 1,045,000 livres. Part of this was taken to pay the troops in France ; the rest would be appropnated to the service of the present year, to the amount of £.500,000, and perhaps some small sum would be applicable to the service of next year. The next thing was the re payment of Exchequer Bills, and what had been ad vanced for the erection of important works. The total of the ready money- produce of the present year was £6,500,000. In order to meet the exigen cies of the State, they had been obliged to take 12 millions and a half for England, and £500,000 for Ireland, from the Sinking Fund. He intended to give a facility for the transfer of stock between England and Ireland. The whole amounted to L 20,031,000, giving an excess of about L 12,000 over the expenses as estimated for the year. He did not think himself justified in holding out any pro spect of farther reduction, but in the next year Go- vernment intended to bring the subject before the House. The claims of the East India Company re quired investigation r and so did those of the out pensioners of Greenwich Hospital ; and it might be necessary to apply for a grant for them, but not in the present year, because re considered them pro- vided for by the Ways and Means. .In answer to a l question from Mr. Tierney, he said, the claims of the East India Company amounted to two millions; , but that was subject to a revision of accounts. Although the amount of the Sinking Fund Loan was larger this year than last, yet the amount of money ap. plicable to the redemption of Debt would be £60,000 larger - than last year In the year 1820, the Reve nue received in Great Britain and Ireland was above £.54,640,688. The Expenditure was A 32497,376, ex clusive of the Supply for the year, which made 71 millions in all, being an exceeding of 16 millions; but the Sinking Fund being taken, gays a surplus o L 900,000. A very large arrear of outstanding Exche quer Bills were paid off to the amount of L 1,800,000. lie assumed that the Revenue would produce the same sum as last year, and. with the Lottery, the French . Debt, and Old Stores, would be 55 millions, and the ExpeiNitare 48 millions. To the Bank of England there was to be paid a sum in arrears, which would al.Oce it, with other ism, £68,221,000. The deli ciency would be paid out of the Sinking Fund, which was this year 16 millions. They had every reason to believe, that in the excess of Revenue they would get so near as to a - proportion of four to five. In the five months already elapsed, the Revenue of this I year had exceeded that of last year by €240,000. Unless 'some unforeseen circumstance should arise, he thought they were not overstating the fact when_ they expected as full a return of Revenue as last year. Now were all these advantages within our grasp; the Bank was paying in cash, the burdens of the war were becoming every day more light, and there was every prospect, if we were not assailed by some un foreseen misfortune, that a e should go on well— (Hear, hear).—ln 1817, the rise in the Funds was most rapid; the Three per:Cents. rose to 74; but be fore Christmas they were as high as 80. What was the consequence? The greatest change ever known took place in the trade, ,and the greatest effect was produced upon the resources cf the country. The lat ter end of 1818 had been always looked up to as a year of plenty. He therefore congratulated the coun try on the encouraging prospects before us. With regard to the difficulties which we had suffered under, by restricting the Bank, there was not a na tion in Europe, which had not experienced the same thing at one time or other ; but there was no state on the Continent which, like us, owed less than we did at the end of the war. He also contended, that the large sums invested in the Savings Banks were aq evidence of the growing wealth of the country. Up to the sth of April last, there was paid no less than £20,000 weekly from he Savings Banks into the Bank of England. He asserted, then, that there never was a period when the country had greater reit; son to rely upon its own resources than at present.— He would not say that we should not meet with move difficulties, but he thought the manner in which we had got through those that we had passed, was a guarantee for one firmness in future—(Harr, hear). The Right Hon. Gentleman concluded by moving, " That a sum not exceeding £13,000,000 be raised by Annuities, for the service of the year 1821, of which £12,500,000 would be for Great Britain, and £500,000 for Ireland." Mr. MABERLEY asked, to , what account the £Bl,OOO, the excess of last year, had been carried? He wished also to know why the Miscellaneous Esti mates, which, at the beginning of the year, were made out at £2,100,000, or thereabouts, should have since swelled to £2,444,000? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, with regard to the first question, that the excess had been carried partly to the Annual Taxes, and partly to the Consolidated Fund. As to the latter, the Estimate had been increased in consequence of an ex pense which 4 rew up connected with the Militia. Mr. MABERLEY then said, that he had no objec tions whatever to take to the Right Hon. Gentleman's Ways and Means, but he protested against his touch ing the Sinking Fund, which was the Fundholdees security. He deprecated any idea of imposing a Tax on Funded Property, in order to relieve the wants of the State. The Report of the Committee stated the sums to be— In 1317 . - A 1,700450 111111 . . • $42,000 1319 . . 1,127,000 1320 . - 1,963,000 And now in 1821 . . . 671,000 after all our savings. After the passing of those se vere laws which _followed the disturbances in the country, there ought not to be imposed upon the People additional hardship by taxation. was certain the Army might safely be reduced one mil lion. He had not taken an active part in the oppo sition given to the Estimates by the Hon. Member for Aberdeen, and which reflected so much credit upon that Hon. Gentleman for his perseverance and industry; but altimegb that opposition had not effected immediate reduction in any one of the Estimates, he had no doubt that the stand made against them would be productive of much benefit to the country. Al though the Right Hon. Gentleman did not give hopes of reduction, he (Mr. Maberley) expected that 10,000 men from the Army, and 4000 from the Navy, would be reduced, and he contended that they ought. With respect to the collection of the Revenue, he would remind the House, that when a motion was made, within a few years, recommending an inquiry into the mode of collecting the Revenue, it was op posed by the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, who moved and carried the previous question; and yet he now came down with a Bill to effect that same object. Notwithstanding the recommendation of a Committee (which the Hon. Gentleman read), there had been £1,900,000 more voted for the Estimates than that Committee had declared ought to be granted. The Right Hon. Gentleman had adverted to the Sinking Fund ; and gone into a detail upon the state of the Funds for 1821. He would not fol low the Right Honourable Gentleman through all the mazes of that detail, which was partly fallacious, and partly true; but would content himself with al luding to some of the items—the Consolidated Fund, the supposed Vote, and the Annual Duties. The House would recollect that when the new Taxes were about to be imposed, it was stated by the Right Hon. Gentleman that the excess beyond three millions should pass to the credit of the Consolidated Fund. The next was two millions and a half for Excise Du ties, and he knew of nothing more than the Lottery and the sale of Old Stores; when these were com pared with the expenses, it would give the balance. the Sinking Fund of last year was £2,200,000. The Right Hon. Gentleman had stated that of this year. It appeared now that there was zmuch larger sum due upon Exchequer Bills than the House had ever heard of, namely, £400,000 ; but he (Mr. Ma berley) intended moving for such documents as would remove all uncertainty on the subject. Rumours were-also afloat, that there was a very large sum due by Government to the Bank of England. Had that economy been practised which had been so often and so strongly recommended, all the present finan cial difficulties of the country would have been avoided, and some part of the burdens of the People might have been removed. In 1792, Mr. Pitt esta lhashed the Sinking Fund, by allotting one per esp. stpon'all future Loans to the extinction of the Debt. He went farther—he intended it should con calve the People by setting aside a part to relieve :amnion. He believed if one half of the produce leant to reduce the Taxes, and one half to the Sink ing Fund, it would do much towards conciliating the People, and render even a Standing Army less obnoxious. He was sure the People were satisfied, t Taxation. with the Constitution, and that the only dissatisfac tion they felt was with the Executive—(Hear, hear); and that nothing could he conceive so likely to quiet their minds, as the adoption of an honest system of economy. He was vets , far from taking a gloomy view of public affairs, for he recollected that the country produced annually sixty-two millions of Revenue, and that there had been an increase of the capital of the country within the last twenty-six years of 600 millions—besides the immense expenditure upon roads and canals. That towns, nay cities had been built—that Scotland had become a new king doM, and that Ireland had improved. He believed in his heart that the country only wanted a Ministry in whom confidence could be placed, and strict mea sures of economy, to tender it perfectly content and happy. He trusted there would be no attempt made to impose a Duty upon one species of property more than another, for that would not be a fair or justi fiable mode of escaping froth present difficulties; and he believed that tenants could be relieved only by the reduction of rent and taxes. Mr. ASTELL said, that from the statement of the Right Hon. Gentleman it might appear that the sum was small that was/ from Government to the East India Company. The Company had lent the Island of St. Helena to the Government ; and the custody of Bonaparte cost the country from £200,000 to £500,000. A payment of a million had been pro mised to the Company in April, and another sum in July; and now he heard with astonishment the Right Hon. Gentleman state, that it was doubtful if any payment would be made. Mr. CALCRAFT could not participate in the sa tisfaction that had been -expressed at the statement of the Right Hon. Gentleman. What would be thought' of an individual who, with an income of £60,000 year, could only spare £6OOO for the expenses of his family ? That was precisely the state in which the country was at present. The fact was; that the People were crushed by excessive burdens, and the only solid relief was the diminution of taxation. The Sinking ' Fund was now less than it had been when the new taxes had been imposed. He thought that the .re sources of the country had been exaggerated, as the 600 millions added to the Debt was a mortgage on the land of the country. Sir J. NEWPORT stated, that the effect of the Taxes in Ireland had been to lessen the Revenue con siderably ; and the Revenue of that country was now less by £700,000, than when the new Taxes had been imposed. The Right Hon. Baronet then went on to spew that the increase of the Duties on the different articles had invariably produced a diminution of the Revenue. When the duty on Port wine had been £lO a tun, the amount had been £240,000 ; when the duty had been doubled, the amount had dimi nished to £99,000. The case had been the same in the article of French wines, and in those of brandy and rum. He had expected to have heard some of, the great Agricultural Proprietors deliver their senti ments as to the state of their respective counties. Mr. RIC A R DO said, that provision had been made for the interest on Exchequer Bills in a former Budget. The real Sinking Fund for the year had been only £950,000. The deficiency on the Consolidated Fund had this year been £517,000, and that, added to the deficiency of former years, made the whole amount to upwards of eight millions. Loans had been con tracted to the amount of £24,292,542. The differ ence of debt on the Ist of January, 1820, and the Ist of January, 1821, was only /X 59,000. The pay ment of half a million from France was confined to the present year, though the Right Hon. Gentleman had argued as if it had been permanent. He was a warm advocate for a Sinking Fund, if applied to the extinction of the National Debt. But he must be a sanguine man, indeed, who could believe it would ever be so applied. What had become of all the fences thrown by Mr. Pitt around the Sinking Fund? The Right Hon. Gentleman had taken seven millions from the Sinking Fund, and then told the Stock holder that he had conferred on him a mighty boon. The Right Hon. Gentleman seemed to be afraid that the country would grow too rich. He would say, let the Sinking Fund be in the pockets of the people; and when Ministers wanted money, let them apply to Parliament. The Hon. Gentleman here read a speech of Mr. Pitt, on the power of accumulation of the Sinking Fund, and the mode proposed by him to prevent alienation, by the payment of £250,000 quarterly into the hands of Commissioners ; by which means it could not be taken by stealth, and nn Mi nister could have the boldness to propose te Parlia ment that it should be diverted to any other purpose —(Hear, hear). He thought the People of England were now much more in debt than if no Sinking Fund had been created. He much approved of the system of Savings Banks ; but a plan of raising an annuity on the Savings Banks, by sinking a sum of money at the birth of a child, lately proposed by a Mr. Woodriff, was highly worthy of attention. If the Bank had made no purchases of gold, the result would have been the same to the country, and the amount °false metallic would have been equal to the amount of the paper circulation. Mr. LOCKHART had no wish to tax the Fund holder. If such a measure became necessary, the necessity would speak for itself. The Right lion. Gentleman had spoken of the magnanimity of the country ; but where was the magnanimity of the Fundholder? Other classes of the community had submitted to great privations, but the Fundholder alone had gained. The country piid now more than in the heaviest years of war. Sir H. PARNELL did not think the statements of the Chancellor of the Exchequer borne out by facts. In 1819, it had been stated by the Right lion. Gen tleman, that there would be a Sinking Fund of five millions, by raising three millions of new Taxes; but the amount of the Taxes bad only been £700,000. That tact proved that the power of taxation was ex hausted ; and to attempt to increase the Revet.ue in that way would be vain. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had not meant to give any opinion as to the validity of the debt claimed by the East India Company. The Hon. Gentlemen who had commented on his state ment, had, for the most part, answered each other. As to the suggestion of annuities on the Saving Banks, any plan of that kind must be locked up for a great number of years. At the best, it should be auxiliary to the system of Saving Banks. The sum of £167,000 bad been collected in Ireland for Saving Banks. Mr. HUME stated, that the Committee of 1817 had recommended that the public expenditure should , be £17,553,000. But in the subsequent years ri le expenditure had greatly increased, and in the p year the Government had not returned to the tape s ,. diture of 1817. At present, from the alined sune e r the currency, eighteen millions were equal to i s four millions a few years ago. In Scotland the el „ pense of collecting the revenue had been doubled, five years two millions had been expended For thed lo tention of Bonaparte. The Right Honourable tleman had admitted what he had formerly tea m , dicted, that the sum of a million was due for d ie i s „ terest of Exchequer Bills. He was certain that ea t year the Sinking Fund would not amount to 2,003,000 . Mr. ELLICE could not conceive why the unme t debt redeemed should not be cancelled, nos the present confused plan should not be ab an The Government had no inclination to reduce thr ee . penditure if it had not been forced upon than, l a he was happy to find that a riving to the amoam a f a million and a half had been accompliked. He could not conceive the object of borrowing half e million from the Bank of Ireland, though he thou* the liberty of purchasing Stock in either country oat advantageous to the Public. The different Resolutions w•eee then put, and, i s answer to a question from Mr. HUME, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER saij, that the Ordnance Stores would be accounted fun k the Estimates of the next year. TUE Lorrgay. Mr. ELLICE intimated his intention of endeavour ing to put a period to the system of raising ase erf by way of Lottery. On the vote of £200,000 for the Lottery, Mr. BERNAL opposed the Resolution. Mr. BENNETT also opposed the Resolution. It appeared by the statement of the Chancellor of th e Exchequer that a surplus of from three to four tu t l. lions was expected next year, and therefore there could be no pretext for continuing a tax which the strictest necessity only could justify. He could not 'sue how any Right Honourable Member who advo cated the building of Churches could recommend a measure which was productive of more mischief thsa could be remedied by all the preachers and all the congregations who attended those churches. It was a measure of pure unadulterated mischief; as a source of revenue, it was bad; as a source of vice and im morality, it was rich and productive. If this vice of the People was to be taxed, he saw no reason why the example of the Bishop of Winchester in form times, or the example of the Bourbons of the present day, should not be followed, and a tax imposed upon the stews and brothels of the metropolis. It WAS said that the gaming in Lotteries would go on whether they were taxed or not; but so would vice and its. morality in the stews and brothels; and if the latter were taxed they would bring money, and that tax, as in the case of the Lottery, would go hand in hand with the vice and immorality which it sanctiooed. He cared not for the money. but he did for the cha racter and morality of the People, and would there fore oppose the Resolution. Mr. CRIPPS could not see how the Lottery could be attended with the effects stated by the Hon.Ment ber. The tax was at all events optional; and those who gambled in that way would, if prevented, gamble in some other way. Mr. W. SMITH thought a tax on certain places might be justified on the same principles with** on the Lottery. Mr. GIPPS was hostile to the tax. The CoMmiuee then divided— For the Resolution - - - 12$ Against it Majority in favour of the Resolution ---Sys The other Resolutions were then agreed to, the House resumed, and the Report was ordered w be . received on Mon d ay . _ _ _ On the motion of the CUMICIMU3II of the Ewen:nom, it was ordered that the House at its rising should adjourns* Monday. The Vagrant Laws Amendment Bill was read a second time. and committed for Tuesday. ILL TREATMENT Or HORSES BILL. The-House resolved itself into a Committee at the 11l Treatment of Horses Bill. Mr. N. W. R. COLBURNE opposed the Bill. He thought it unjust that servants should be punished for the ill treatment of horses or oxen, while the owners were totally exempted from any such punishment.. Mr. R. MARTIN coincided with what had falls from the Hon. Member, and hoped that be (Mr.Col hurtle) would propose a clause, making masters or owners of animals also punishable. • Mr. Alderman C. SMITH thought the measure a beneficial one, but he hoped that cruelty to asses would also be made punishable by this Act. Be therefore moved, that after the word " horses," the word " asses" he inserted—( Lankier). The CHAIRMAN put the question, that the word " Asses" be inserted—( Loud laughter). Mr. MONCK thought the Bill unnecessary. If one Gentleman legislated to prevent cruelty to horses, another had undoubtedly a right to protect asses also laugh)—and a Gentleman fond of dogs might bring in a Bill to punish cruelty to dogs---[A Moan: "or cats"j—(A laugh). A Gentleman said "or cats," and undoubtedly they might be led to that extent. But it would be difficult to define what cruelty to animals was. That which one person considered cruelty, might, by another, be considered only a jsit and necessary severity. Mr. Alderman WOOD thought that the live. Gentleman was entitled to the thanki of the Hotta for bringing forward such a Bill ; and, as to its prac ticability, the law already in existence for punishing persons guilty of cruelty to the animals they drove to market, was a sufficient proof that it could beta` tied into effect. _ Lord BINNING suggested that the owner d dtt animal should also be included hi tie the Ha Mr. SCARLETT objected to the principle of thl Bill ; if it was adopted it must be extended to de horrible cruelty of hunting the hare, and to that tv fined cruelty of horse-racing. Mr. J. SMITH supported the Bill, as necessary $0 restrain the cruelty of carmen and others, hariag the are of horses, so frequently seen in our streets. He was certain the Hon. Chairman (Mr. Brogden)agrami with him in opinion on this subject ; for his Hum Friend had sliewn his opinion on this subject, by thrashing a brutal carman in the street, for clucky to his hurEe, on the spot on which the cruelty was . exercised. The surrounding populace 'hewed the or Dion they had on the subject, by the applause ihich they bestowed on his Hon. friend—(!leer, Ater). alter Wine Ob644Yitli.nsb Irons Mr. MARTO, Mr.