Star. — London, England, 1817-02-07 00:00:00

to teaming. 'Lie money sired in this way might,: at the present momert, be well laid out in en),argln the military seminar? rf Addiscomb. It was esti mated the alterations contemplated would cost ten t ousand pounds. Sup; .zing, every thing ineloded they shout .1 amount to tr 20,000, here might be fiesnd - t r ee ideans of meeting them. He was of (+pinta the AddiscombSeminattenight be advantageously trans ferred to lialeyborY. He caudated with a most animated appeal to the,Cuurt on the necessity of In- ad:utile an inquiry hit.). the state of the Hertford • r Establishment: lie then• moved his resolution, . which proposed an inquiry Into the effant of the Col lege, and. recommended. that the militaty isetnivary . at Additcomb should be transfetnedto Haleybury. in the went of it, being determined that it would mot be adviieahle to keep .rep the Calkte• Mr. Duos seconded the iiiitiott, observing, that he hoped the inquiry would be made with all that at tenni% which the impatience of the question required, for unless the young men who went out Were quali fied by the education they received here. and were also aware of the necessity of seboedittatia, they would be very unit to take on themselves the com mands which they might think they Were entitled to. On the final result of this affair, he slould•act in a way that would satisfy his own mind. Mr. CNARLEAI GRANT, sem said. that Wing partly exhausted by the attention he had deemed it :trees sary to pay to the elaborate speech of the Learned Gentleman, he should detain the. Court co longer than he could. But he could not terrain from ad-. vetting to several of the topics which the Learned Gentleman had introduced, though he telt thai the subject could not, by any means, be comprehended, in the present day's dissuasion. In the first instance, he must declare himself wholly against the motion before the Court, as both the motion and the propo sition were *tike inimical to the institution and its objects. The way in which the proceedings had been caeried on was also unjust in its beginning and its . conduct, and he did not wonder that the Court had dismissed the subject from their papers. Such' pro atediug was like desiring a condemnation before a beating had been obtained.. The only object seemed to he to get papers toconfirm a judgnsent before the :waterbed been beard, and it the Court passed the reeolutions, it would do injustice to the subject, by ann i ding it before the public, loaded with a halter . about its neck, to their constituents. In his opi: . Slop, the whole of the Honourable Gentleman's speech was a tissue of atisrepreseetatione—(liar.) The College was not instituted on the first sep ;lmam of Load Wellesley': establishment. This was countermanded in lari, though it was after wards resumed on a restrained scale, and existed long • afterwards ; therefore the one at home was not shb *dieted for any that was suppressed in India. The public were therefore in thus respect led into a ads conceptiou by the Honourable Gentleman's asser tions. He bad entered into a field of expatiation on a abject which was not called for, and had con. • sumed the whole morning in his untenable arguments. Here the Honourable Director read a variety bt ex tracts containing the sentiments of the Court of Di. rectors on the subject at a former period; and he pave it as his own decided °partite, that the educa tion of the young melt should be confined chiefly to this country. liklore Lord Wellesley went to India. et was decreed that an Appropriate system of education in that quarter was become necessary; so that the Di 'gains hail not gone implicitly into the ideas that his • lAl4llkhip sad stated in India. He denied that the Idea of a school was ever Introduced, as relating to the Institution in this country. It was of enature eel claimed to produce advantagei that no school could effect, though nothing had been mentioned as to cal ling it a College; when the plan was first formed.— . To prove this, the Hon. Gentleman read the opinion . of the Directors 'on this subject, and inferred that ettey never bad the ides of forming the establishment into a school. He oelieved, that aster the appoint aent of Dr. Henley, the name et Collage was ad ded, but there was nothing incongruous iu this. A twits competent Committee could not have been chosen than chat which decided on the formation of the institution. Every alteration that had been in . endued had had the coneuttence of the Learned Gentleman at the time, and he naves objected to the reposition of the college. The building at Hertfiod was found too incoovenient for the purpcss. and it was deemed necessary to build another.- He denied • that it was only the counting-house for which the it .' men ought to be qualifiedi they should also tendered competent to fulfil say of chow greater ' functions which they had to discharge. • Wbo Moved (said the Ploa.Directur) that spleudd establishment, and that system of clothing inginvns and caps, which assimilated the appearance of t h e rodents to those of our tIiIiVWSitISS l Who. but the Learned Gentleman Lima f And there was no objection against th e m from any quarter at the time, much less fr.in himself. - The; be had proved that be bad for gotten what passed, and when it was evident that be bad - forgotten what bobiniself bad said and done,' it might be assumed, that when he went merely upon the tepreseatations of others, he might prove, to be mistaken in a still greases degree. He had Limed, from .what had taken place at the Initi alise. %bat, evi rutting bad bees going . vireos ; yet with am or. two solitary exceptions, it appeared ilia/every daily had AI along been going-right, He had proposed.m.lBlo, t Vote of Thank: to the Stu dents, for their fond coodoet, and in 1811, he had esteeded th;s vote, is order to inclUde the other Stu dents who lied slot bole. comprisetin the-first. It was fPur years after the establishment of the Institu tion before any serious affair occurred at all, and this was confined to a few of the meg ma, though the whole College was blamed; thus they' were. as a body. libelled and calmesiated.. Howie, they de, served such stigmas ea hod hem passed upon them would appear fro. what When the general result. Since the commencement of the Establishment, to . the tiae •f the latest report, the cumber of young • Anse admitted had been four hundred and twenty seven, Of these sixteen bad been withdrawn, two b a d died. fourhad not proceeded to their destination, one bad bees .refused bsa certificate, end w as fou n d incompetent for an appointment, making meaty-foot in all. Thus ' after all that bad been statist to the public, what ha been the °amber that-lad suffered t o . mi sconduct Only seventeen, of. whom four or A ve b a d sees restored ; so that the whole number ' who bad 'sewed by tipSasitql was only twelve, out. 0 4 all itto tai loco vatta in At Of '338 tbbo hearer eui:to India, by fer.the salter nand* kid gone - WM OpilliOln of chiracters, und-had the credit of hetrini-414.-reat proSeivner theW studies.' 'they . were now serving the Cron in tle most ittipoitant stationif that could be acerssietl" under the existing Acts of Parliament. It was it* rematkable t that those who bad most distinguished dwasselves at College s had distinguished themselves in India, aid have obtained rapid prornation.—[The Hon. Directeoere read the teszi moo ire of Lard Minto infaeour of thstatentsatitkon Ju et of those gentlemen.] Let this be tontrastedwkh the virulence that the Court had heard this day, in otter that they might judge whether it yes justifiable. Such testimonies ought to be opposid tq all the bold assertions and irony. mous tato:nein; which were not worthy of the least' attention, and ought to be disregat ded. He then de. tended the grand design of the Institution, and insis - - ted, that the Court had never deviated from their ori ginal intention of making it not a t:bool, but an esta blishment for liberal education : it was, them rote, the only sort of institution that could answer the purpose. He denied that its leading feature was instruction in the Oriental languages, but it was intended to give the Students all manner of information to tender them competent to fill their situations, because, in India, they could prosecute their studies it; the lan. guages with more effect than at home. The Profes. sot ship of Oriental languages bad only been engraf• tad on the original idea, to make them more perfect than they otherwise wo uld have been, on first going - out. It gave them only the elementary principle of the languages. The Indian Institution was never intentled to ilupply Euttisean and Classical Uteri. tuts, which was to •be acquired in Europe. The only question was, whether, after allowing every thing. that could be conceded to the talents of indi viduals, it would be proper to entrust the important places under tie Government of India to persons not properly educated ? He was convinced, in his own mind, that if the Company's servants had been sent out, so educated at earlier periods, very many of the political, as well as other mistakes, would have been avoided; and now it was deem e d abso- lutely necessary to educate diem, with a view to the particular object of qualifying them for their impor tant duties. As tp what bad been said respecting the feelings of patents, they could not but be aware that their sons must conform to the rules of the esta blishineut, or they would incur the risk of losing their appoinuoinu, which was a very serious consideration; but it was no hardship, because it was necessary. They must be strict to the tests, or they would I fail in their object. There was nothing more ex. petted here than what was necessary in all other in. Eitutionr. 'the strictness and vigour of discipline was more likely to cause expulsion than at the Uni versities, where the Students had a much greater degree of latitude. What the Professors liedalone at, the College, had arisen from a pure mod conscientious sense of their duty, and if they bad committed any mistakes they ought to be viewed with indulgence.' The Honourable Director then entered into an argu ment of considerable length, to prove that the Di rectors had framed all the Statutes for the benefit of the Institution ; and denied that the assertion was correct that Lord Cornwallis bad been obliged to cm ploy persons. out of the service, because those be longing to it were not competent to perlorm its du. ties, for want of a proper education; at leapt he had , never heard of such a fact, notwithstanding his long residence in India. He was convinced of. the meet pity of the youtig mess basin* a commersial and tilsie a political education here, as Many of them sae called upon to act the pan of statesmen jn India, by their intercourse with the native Princes. The Learned Gentleman had attributed all the disorder' that had happeoed to the introduction of caps and gowns. There never was a more disproportionate stress laid -upon any subject than on this—(lfrar.) The average of the age at which the Gentlemen were sera was certainly beyond that of boyhood, being from 16 to 19. He believed that at first there was a little too much lenity and forbearance in the Establishment, which might have led to what had happened. Some were careless and refractory, hecaum they did not wish to go, to liidia, and considered that they were scot to the College by their parents against their will, and they not only acted improperly themselves, but seduced others, in order that they might be expelled. Others had the idea, that they would be sent out at ill mots, and therefore thought they might do as they pleased, forgetting that they might be expelled for misconduct • and anotVer error was, that of pa. rents putting pr ofuse sums of moony into their hands, which gave them every temptation to Commit India. cretions. There was nothing of the kind that had been asserted respecting malting the boys criminate themselves, like turning King's evidence. They were oily required to declare who were their conk-. Berates, and they refused to do it, 'but stood mute ; so that if any person bad been maimed or murdered, there would have been no possibility of finding out the culprit. This was what caused the Directors to adopt a new regulation; and be was sure parents • would nut be deterred from sending their children there on account of the rigour of the Establishment, as the object was important which tin y wished to secure. With respect to the wilts of money, if the Institution was good, it esslit to remain—if ir was bad, is ought not to vemesn, though it alight be attended with• no expense irtatever. He - - would, however, maintain, in opposition to all the reports and declamations, that the College bad in a very • great degree answered the expectations that were formed of it, and, in fat, teeny thing that could be hoped for ; sad he should therefore offer the 'troop est opposition to the =Woe that he could possibly do. Mr. Dnore sug gested that the question should be postponed till a ftswe day, in order that it might undergo a full discussion. Mr. hien (the Director) -said he should have made such a motion, it the Honoprable Gentleman bad not anticipated him. He bad no dotibt that, On a full discussion, the Coen would come tea full and deliberate decision. He was of opinion that there ' had been heard that day on one side nothing but a tissue of calumnies and accusations; mad be appealed to the good settee of the Proprietors, whether' every one of the parties accused should not have an oppot•-• tunity of defending himself ? •'t •-• , • . ~ The Question was put 'and chivied' %t tite.Ques:. tion should be resumed on this day fortnight. After some other routine of business, the Court a.Goutned. •PaLLIMENT A RV 4IitOtEED2A . 'GS& mousx Or LORDS, rfißt7 ART O. realm MST Alfb LOAN. Lord HOLLAND observed, that soon after the reaioratiou of Louis XVI:I. to the Throne of France, ft had appeared in the public papers, and was gene rally understood to have been the case, that a sum of twelve millions of francs, about half a million, had been voted by the Chtmber of Deputies to the King. for the purpose of discharging a personal debt due from him to the Government of this country. — He therefore wished to be informed whether or net that sum had been received ? The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, that at the moment be had no particular recollection of the sum referred to by the Noble Lord. There were cer tainly a number of individual claims upon France ; these debts were referred to a Commission, by whom some of the claims were allowed, while cellars were rejected. Lord HOLLAND repeated the nature of his question, and seemed to think it rather extraordinary that the 'Noble Lord was not aware of the circum stance. He, however, wished not to be understood as wishing to press for the payment of that sum, though, as well as other sums due. it would be very serviceable in the present situation of this country; but he wished to know whether it was carried to ac. count, or the appiication of the sum? He knew not to what purpose the King of France might wish to apply the twelve millions voted to him by his Cham ber of Deputies, but wished to have it ascertained whether or not the sum in question had been received by the Government of this country ? .The Earl of LAUDERDALE observed, there were also other sums of money pending between the respective countries, on which it would be highly important to have satisfactory inforniation ; but what he wished to be informed of in the present instance was respecting a point of greater and more immediate importance. It was a matter of public notoriety, that negociatioas were-going forward far raising a large sum of money in this country for the service of France. Respecting this, he would with to know whether or nut his Majesty's Ministers had guaran teed that Loan. though, : at the same time, he Could not conceive it possible that they could do a thing so palpably contrary to the best interests of the country —a measure so evidently injurious. Individuals on such occasions would naturally look to the security they could have is an object of the highest impor. tante. Did the Government allow itself to be con cerned in such a transaction, he should consider it, in the present circumstances of the country, as' one of the most alarming things that could take place, not only with a view to immediate circumstances, but in a view of prospective poi•icy. With reference to this, he deemed it the duty of Government not only not to countenance such a transaction, but it should go further, and send, in the usual way, to the Bank, and give •a regular notice that Govern ment would have no concern whatever in the trans action, and that they would not endeavour, at any future occasion, to insist upon the repayment. This be thought should be done by his Majesty's Gtovern- Meat, in order to do away all, impressions that they did' not more or less encourage the transaction. 'l'be Earl of LIVERPOOL mid, that with respect to the,question of the Noble Earl, he.had explicitly to declare, that not only the Government of this Country' had cot guaranteed the 'repayment of the Lose id a course of negotiation, but that the - British Government in no respect were under any:obligation, now or hereafter, or had made itself a party to the Loan now negociating on the part of the French Government. The transaction was entirely volun tary with the•parties concerned : what they did was completely at their own risk, and they were liable to the consequences of it. With respect to the question of British creditors of France in other points at view, the.cousideration was different : it would be a ques tion of expediency with Government in future, and woeld depend upon the circumstances of the time, and of which futon Governments would jtadge.— But with respect to the Loan alluded to, lie would repeat, the British Government were not in the small est degree connected, either directly or indirectly.— He wished, however. to say a few words respecting this circumstance in another point os view, for the purpose of doing away any misconceptions upon the point, and to remove false impressions which may arise from what might be said of the transaction, or appear in the public papers. It was said that the French Government *ere negotiating a Loan in London, and many conceived that to be • the mere state of the transaction. The fact, however, was, that the French Government, being in want of this money for certain purposes, had applied to certain great Capitalists, Bankers, and others, not only in Loudon, but also in Paris. Amsterdam, Hamburgh, and other places, for assistance. It was true that one of the first houses in Le.ndots was i a course ill negociation with the French Government, but they were also in negotiation with other houses in Am sterdam, Paris, Frankfort. and Hamhurgh. The Noble Lord must know the transaction must proceed a great way upon the credit of the names of certain houses; but what they should effect would be solely upon their own credit, and at their own tisk. The Noble Lord, be believed, was not long in town, or he would have seen that no alarm existed that any considerable sum woul d be so taken from London as to have any effect upon the money markets. It was then a misrepresentation of the facts to say; that the sum required was negotiating in , London; it may as well be said the Loan was negotiating in any of the other places he had mentioned. Viewing the subject farther, he would observe,' that if the ' A.meriesn or any other Government &tole to raise a Loan in London, be knew of no la'w existing that would prevent its negotiation, or conclusion, prov d ed the Power ecgociatin4 w•as in amity with this' country. Neither did he believe the transaction in question was likely to go to any client, so as to be felt by the money market in this country. The Bari of LAUDERDALE spoke 'in ti tatian. The second questi o n or po i n t tir.whioh iled referred, he thought equally nessiary" with the first .to be answered by the Noble Lord.— He thougbt, ender the circumstances, it was-the duty of :his Majesty's Government to make such a coin •risuniestioa to the bank as he bad referred to,. and' to lm it lie explicitly known that the British Goiern :ment-would by to means interfere in the transaction., _ • L The Earl' volt of Lt a Poo, reply, observq, that wbat the Nob el seemed to think a usual mode of proceeding. would in fact be to do a very unusual thing, inasmuch as it never happened beim..., namely, to make such a communiettion to the Ba r k , on such an occasion at that in question. With rde. rence to the consideration of claims ot.-13cttHicsed:. tors generally, 'akin) in the view in which the NoSle Earl considered that question, it were 00 - mileh to espect from him that he should slate, orritra.iroy s i d be possible for his l'itaje:4 l , Government to sa l w' 4 would or should he the principle to be Asel,`Med iy future treaties or n TO6ll dons. Covert:4l;ot- shoull be left free and tintettered, to act on future nertitieir l , according to its own discretion, or under the eitc•:ni. stances of the cases it would be of no ar!...ai... 7e . now to discuss these points. With respect tr• ! ,, e Treaties of 1814 and 181:5, it was well ki....; were connected a ith p. culiar cii cumstaect,, c. ;,:, there was no reason to believe would apply t o nil occasions ; these would be considered with to corresponding circumstances, upon which n u or.. nion could fairly be expected from him. Ther a . vernment should be left tree, and at libe:ty to net ; ,. ciate according to its own view p trticula-cor. Lord HOLLAND fusee a :ew ohservat cgs „ support of what had fallen from his Noble 1•7i.r ; , , the'Etul of Lauderdale. He seemed parrctiletl to advert to an article in the late Treaty of Prez.% which he thought held son a degree ut undue enc , , , v ragement to iudividuals to vest money in French st curities ; and with respect to wiich, he thought ousters should acknowledge the error, atm rtt.AZ,! their reps, and particulaily as it went to benent Power, which though now in amity, was aiaale considered as our rival. 'With respect to the cttiir of the pending negotiation for a French lual, seemed to think some more adequate explanation should be given to:Parliament. The Earl of LAUDERDALE avowed himsCE of tip same opinion. What had officially trankpire:i on the occasion, ought at least to be communicated in that view. He then gave notice, that on Monday next, he should move .that copies of such oiliciai communications as were made on the subject of tie French loan, be laid upon the t able. THANIts TO Tile MAtIQUIs OP HASTINGS, The Earl of LIVERPOOL lose, according to notice, to move the Thanks of the Huase to the Marquis of Hastings for his condimat in the Nepaui War. He said he should not enter at any Icrg'a into a discussion on the objects and policy of tt: .t war, because by the vote which he should propose to the Governor-General and the Officers engaged in it, he shoald not pledge their Lordships to any epinien on the question of its justice or expediency. fic however felt it necessary to say a word or two on'a subject mentioned by a Noble Earl (Grey) on a til!- mer night. That Noble Earl was completely mini formed when he supposed that any protest had ore t made by two Merrhers of the Supreme Crmit.l against the com mencement of hostilities. Indere !;e was authorized in saying, that not merely did is-i opinion prevail universally in India; but also among the Members of the Indii Company at home as sl the necessity of the war. If any Lord had read ti:e papers which he had laid upon the Table, be wouti have teen that it was not on account of an encroact ment merely, that we had ground of ititriplir' , l against the Nepaul Government, but that a series ,aggressions and insults, offered not only to ourstiv.: but •to our Allies, and which therefore could n• t, with any regard to our character,. be suffered to pat, unnoticed, had. left us no resort but an appeal .a arils. He nevertheless should nut propose to the Howse the declaration of any opinion on this and he should not have said a• word respecting it to do away the erroneous impression which !lad t:.- isted. As to wars in India, from the extent of t' e territory and the peculiar circumstances under they were carried en, they were severe in (licit tmtt of the soldier, and called fur the greatest ability !-1 those who had the direction; and the most spitted 'exertion in the officers who were entrusted With the execution of the plans. To the war to which their attention was now called, t h is remark would p.erticu• laxly apply. The scene of operations WAS frontiers ut India, in a mountainous country - , Mew ded with mountain torts and chaias of redioliats li;e greatest perseverance, SISaA 01 as 1114111ellt, WAS their. tore necessary to tiring th e wear to a &UCCeSSILIi eastt He should nut enter into a . dews ut the military epe rations, which bad been . already before the putit:c, but it was only necessary to reter to them to slim the Jespeiate nature of some attacks winds had 67:•ii made, in which, unfortunately, many brave and distinguisliedaifficers had tatltiv.•kie should 01.1 name. General Gillespie,... The - liiitish arms had at last over conic, and terms peace were proposed anti I signed which adorded a sec:irity against the refieuai 01 the aggressions complained u!. After the Treaty was signed the Nepali! Gaserintent ietesed to rarefy it. 'the Goecrnot.sieneral had consequently no ai , ternative but a rein:vial of Lostilates. Alid ihusio the R.j in of Nepaul had meantime taken ever y pr caution to ensure tuceess, the contest was Stu-int.-It'd with glory to ii.is count. y by done Mt'ailica w.; I had been suggested by the wi_dom of the Gwier.: General. Though terms n.ore advantagroas nisc - : have been incisted upon, the Governor-Genera: - played his moderation by adhering to tl.e ta,gt I treaty. For the whole of this transaction the sli.!• quiz tif Hastings was entitled to the thanks of C. , : country. The Noble Earl concluded by moron !'e Thanks of the I Loose to General the Marquii tit W.:- tinga. Governor of India, and Commander in Ch.ef of the Forces there, for his judicious arrangentrite for conducting the military operations ago use Nt . put, which bad brought that war to a success!( termination, and had led to the conclusion of a peat on stir and honourable terms. Earl GROSVENOR.—He had intended ur troubled their Lordships at some length on the ject of the Nopaul war, but in wimp's:ice of wit had fallen from the Noble Secretary of hums Le should reserve what he intended to say to anutial opportunity. The Noble Earl then asked a cgier*:o which was supposed to relate to transactions betweot the Goveramegt of India and certain Natiye y 7 v.efs, subsequent to the conclusion of the Nepaul War : 44 the signing of the Treaty of Peace. . The Earl of LIVERPOOL replied, that M G'''. vernment had no information on the subject ro =' ,l the Noble Earl referred, it was impossible for him ' 3 7 say what events might have passed. • 11 The Motion was then agreed to; after 'eihkh.•