Star. — London, England, 1823-06-03 00:00:00

Ii . holders and pursons of property In the County of La nark at' sisty-stx, while the number of superiority voter* was found to be ninety-five. Hence, if those wan possessed land ht that County wished to elect s particular person, they were sure to be foiled -by the supericalty interett, though possessed of scarcely any property. The.number of Commissioners of Supply in the . Gams Ccianay was ILL, These men . did all the Cuisines as in the County, but not being freeholders, had itb tote. in the - County:of Mid-fenhian, agorne wliat different State . of thitigi had taken place: the voters from superiority , ,wae one hundred; those from landed property, fifty-four; and the Oonami,sioners amounted to *Only *boot fifty; who, of course, were • without Votes. Hence the Representatives who are chosen in Scotland wete elected by men having no Property, generally speaking, of a freehold character at least. Hence the same check over the Represen tation for England in the supposed purity of the County Members, could not be said to exist in the case of Scotch Representatives. An Honourable Friend of hil . (Mr. Hume) was, though the Member fqr Aberdeen, little likely ever to obtain the support or sanction of the actual electors of the Borough of Aber;iren. Was this a state of things to be borne, that only-one man . of property in 62$ Counties, and not more than one in 7,000 of the inhabitants in Bo roughs, had, on an average, the privilege of freemen, and were permitted ,to vote? Ile proceeded to scat a few facts with respect to the late election for La nark. About two years before the close of last Par- Hameln, the County was surprised by an advertise ment from an Hon. Admiral (Cochrane), offering himself as a candidate for Lanarkshire. That gen tleman had at this time no qualification to become a Member, because he had no propel ty in the county. The nest of his proCeedings was to search out a num ber of votes on superiority, to secure a majority. The contest then took the character of a Government con test, and all its officers were assailed for their votes. To meet these formidable antagonists (the Honour able Admiral and the Government), he (Lord A.111,- mitton) went to work in buying up as much supe riority as he could, which he immediately parcelled out into as many votes as the property would cover, and eau a farthing more— n amely, £4OO Scots each. The .next thing he did was to find out persons who should hold these superiorities ; but here was the dif ficulty, to ascertain whether such holders or buyers wOuld or would not. vote for him. Here, however, he was aided by the extraordinary ability and saga city of his Scotch Law Agents, who so managed the matter, that not one of the buyers of his supe riorities failed to vote fur him, though these supe riorities were publicly sold and advertised.— Here his Lordship read the questions which were put to such paper voters, the great object of which was to ascertain whether the voter had • a right to vote ; from whom he bought the superiorities; and particularly to guard against the 'voter's having re ceived a consideration for his own vote from the Wa nton —The oath went to %tate, tnat the land or estate was his own ; and that it wad his fee, and his only. A scruple had arisen in his own mind; and,' to solve it, he appealed to his lawyer, .who gave it as his opinion, that these was no impropriety in that oath, because it meant that he was only possessed of a superiority property.--(A laugh)—however the oath might be worded. The exeicise' of this right Was as objectionable as the mode of conferring the right to vote. The light depended on their being in possession a year and a day. Now, in this instance at Lanark, he complained that, through the agency of the Sheriff, one class a voters interested against him (Lord Hamilton) were made in time, whilst his voters were made, to the number of twenty, just too late to qualify them to vote. The election, too, was prolonged by every -chicanery and delay, in order to give time for his opponent's voters to grow ripe, of a year and a day old. In fact, he knew an instance, where a document being necessary to be produced, the lawyers engaged to manage the election under topic to talk whilst a . messenger was dispatched to fetch it, at a distance of sixty miles off, and they ac tually succeeded—(A laugh).—Amongst other things ; he could assure the Mouse that sometimes, when hard pressed, they brought in aged persons from a rest distance in ; litter. Another evil arisingasut of this contested election was, that he had to stand twenty-five law-suits .on twenty-five votes given at thin election. Appeals often arose on these actions, and if brought betoie the old fifteen Judges of Scot land, every person knew how their political bias would determine it. The latter danger, however, was removed by a hue law. He hoped to be able to shew to-morrow night, in the case of the suit brought by him relative to the Beacon Newspaper, that that political bias was exercised against him by the Learned Lord himself opposite. A charge Was brought against hiM in the affair of the. Lanark elec tion of corrupt practices, which, however, was soon abandoned, in consequence of finding the twenty-five law-suits were not likely to succeed. lie thought he had proved that an election in Scotland was altoge ther a job, and, what was worse, a Scotch job— (A laugh).-11is object was, he hoped, accomplished, in explaining that an evil did exist. He should now sketch out a mode of redressing that evil. He should not propoie to invade any one's right. lie should propose to connect landed or personal pro-. petty with, superiority. Land or other property combs, to be required to the amount of one hundred pounds : Scots, or eight pounds a year sterling. This amount ma..i remain to. be adjusted by-the House. If the House should agree to leave all existing votes un touched, he should not feel the least objection. Ho apologised for going so much. into detail, but it was , necessary. to do so, in order to shew that the Scotch counties, so far from correcting the evil, of misrepre-, sentation ,in Scotland, as counties did in.Etigland,. actually 7aggcavated: the evil. Thus, the Honourable: Members froin Scotland; aroupd hirn might be taken to represent anything hut the population of the, place. The Ilcinontable Member for Edinburgh. had about thirty petrops in:Edinburgh who confided-to hins their, interests in the Representation, whilst 5(4000 Pecuomi of property were, opposed:. to him. In thrs,:ssase manner, the populaoon of the town and county. of hercteen were the friends. and. well-wishers of: hisi klouourable: Friend tbeMember.forAbotdeen, his could nnt.be comidered;aven to. be the Repressor . ta - .tve.o( tlik . ..'welf-elorixd 34inta q.3lawn : Cepu n s Safi Abeiattun: Mt , VOC4V.C.lwa‘loskioit. , Member for .Edinburgh could then be considered. worthy the *name of the Representative of that town, whilst, on the contoirpOte mutkalwaysdhlors.-- ett.b.. chgvitter introduced by tlirrisloOlc,!bord -.::,-- titan his Honourable Friend 0111,1gOr .. might i - - ' .• - be a u • 114 r ' .• unworthy of Wm. - They - haritheir of the title of worthy .Re prima - - ta leiofor the popula- irtes etatie - tirne after the tiniellg'lheit nurnbers of tion of 'Aberdeen, though electea 'to sis,4l4,ttnoinn "Bebtehrienemigrated to the mere genial clidlate o f against the wishes al that juntOie ir„,-, 0 1, macii , ;70 . e South;and by their industry and prudence be- I only through his being supping( 'thy A majority joi caoreq scessful in the World. They in cons e q uence , .the other •Iturglis. .1f any• _ ' .m em b et o. F. I excited' the envy of persons less fortunate, who gave prop ert) in Scot a better course than that he pro he slicinld hone' rise to 'those' alluslonsstroften had recorse.to at sub no objectioh to adopt . it. The Noblfi' Lord concluded sequent periods. Men of landed . land were as independent 2s in England, and few OC by Moving the following Resolutlens : ca..; „Is of public importanoe.c " I. That it appeared by a certified Copy of the Rotted* Free holders of every County in Scotland, as last made up , laid before their sentiments rnAterj ould be found in which County differed. As the N o b le this House in July 1820, that the total number of persons having a righj to vote in all those Counties together did nut este r s 2889. House proposed no specifle• plan, he did n ot think the "1. That by the same Return it appears that the grcalest 1 House should enter into the pledge required. On number of persons having a right to vote in any one Couuty tlisi ' t iese grounds be svould•move the previous question. not exceed 240, viz. for the County of Fife; and that thesmalkst Mr. KENNEDY said he was glad the N oble Lord number did'not exceed nine, vie. for the County of Croroarty. had brought forward this question; and although he " 3. That it further appears from the same R e turn, that the, persona have a right to vote in several Cou nti e s, a nd conic- did not suppose that his arguments would influence e'd the H quently that the total number of Voters fur all the Counties in t )er house or . the Public,. yet he could not al &otland, is considerably less than 2889. ' low the opportunity to pass without expres.sing his "4. That it further appears to•tltis House, that the right of entiments. The. Hon. Baronet opposite bad asserted voting for a Scotch County depends, not on the possession of that this measure, if successful , wculd introduce an the dentiniant utile of a real landed estate in that C ount y , but on • . alteration in the law of landed property in Scotland. bolding the superiority over such estate, which superiority may be, and frequently is, disjolued from the property, insomuch, For his part he believed that it would be attended that of all the persons qualified to vote for a Scotch County, with no such effect. But the Hon. Baronet had been there may not he one who is possessed of a single acre of land inconsistent; for he had said that this measure would Within the County, while the whole of the land may belong to, • iiiicrease the influence of the Aristocracy. In his opi and be the property of, persons who have not a single vote for m . the lieprePentative. on that would entirely de p end upon the manner in "5. That this House will, early in the next Session of' Parlia. . which the Aristocracy conducted itself. The fact ;pent, take Into its most serious consideration the state of Repre- was, that since the Union of the two countries, the sensation of Counties in Scotland, with a view to effect some ... aootcli Members had always been subservient to the extension of the number of votes, and to establish souse con nection between the right of voting and the landed prop ert y of existing Government; and so they would always con that country.", . tinue, as long -a> the present system lasted. Ile wished Mr. MAXWELL rose to second the Resolutions. to dra\v the attention of the House to the statements It was impossible, he thought, for the House to, r e- which bad been made by the Hon. Gentleman near fuse their concurrence in the motion. The state of him. The Representatives of Scotch Counties were the Representation in Scotland was neither creditable thirty in number, and the electors returning them to the country itself nor tUthat House. The right amounted te2,5:30; so that upon the average each of voting, as now held, could not be long exercised. County Member was returnedrhy about ninety-seven with advantage, either to those who enjoyed it or to persons; and yet each County Member was supposed the country at large. The great argument of • tbe to re p resent a p o p ulation of 69,000 persons. Now, Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Canning) against Reform if this was true, as lie thought had been sufficiently was, that the prelent system worked well. This, he shewn, that these Members were often returned by felt quite assured, was not the casein Scotland. The persons who had no property in 'the county, it- fur felt a case which called for inquiry as strongly as great mass of the People there were wholly dissatis fied. In many parts, he would admit, the measures allp case he had ever known. It was a rulfortune from that the Scotch freeholder had no such thing as a of the present Administration were supported conscientious motives; but those who did support c ! ounri meeting, where the feeling of the county them acted more from credality than prudence. It.;,,conld be expressed. The Noble Lord opposite had was said that the House of Commons, as now coOsti.' Oiled what prevented them . ? He would answer, that tuted, represented rather the judgment than the fed' at present the Constitution recognised no such thing ings of the People. He ,did not think it'„rsip{ex l in t ed l as a county meeting of any magnitude; and to those either. The badness ofthe system was preyed Ity the which were held he Would apply the language which load of taxes under which the country was suffering,, in another place had been applied with another Every one in Scotland must feel degiadid by the mean i ng; for he would' say that a county meeting in present mode in which the country Scotland was the most arrant farce imaginable. Now, was represented. It was quite ridiculous to persevere .in a system in .he would ask, was it prurient, was it safe, that no outlet which the People could have no confidence. : should be allowed for the expression of the feeling of Sir G. CLERK said,. that, as being i nterest ed ' the people? He (Mr. Kennedy) had been taught that the in the subject, ; he hoped the House would, allow him franchise* which extended itself over the greatest mass to make a few observations. He should confine ihem of property was the most safe. Now in Scotland strictly to the County Representation. It would not; there was a considerable proportion of property en he knew, le easy to persuade 'many Honourable tirely unrepresented. Lethim not bd told that' it was Members that a system could be a good one, which virtually represented, for it had no representation at differed so much from what.prevailed in this coon. ell. The Hon. Gentleman, in conclusion, thanked his try. It was, however, adapted to the state of society , Noble Friend for the motion which he had made, and li n Scotland ; it was approved of by the People, had declared hit intention of supporting it. it existed ever since *Wand had a •Constitotimi. • Mr. HORACE TWISS said, that if the Noble Lord, instead of going into a detail, had contented himself The. first evil' pointed out by, the N'Oble'Lorcl Was, with moving for leave *to bring in a Bill - for the re that property was not the ground of' the elective frau• cliiel--that no extent of land conferred that right..= medy of any particular grievance, he (Mr. H. Twist) 'lt was otherwise in England. No petion could vote ' Would not have oppoSed it. But the Resolution of for a County•Mensheir who dirl . not possess It freehold. the Noble Lord Went to a tntal change of the whole The Scottish law was• net . more anomalous in that system.. The Hon. Gentleman who had last spoken, I respect than the law of England, and therefore be had lamented that•there was no outlet to the public did not think it constituted a ground ef . change., The feeling in Scotland, .forgetting that but a moment fore hehad be inconvenience was not so great as the . Nosletord lamented that no such feeling existed.— wished to. represent it ; for le' would put it to the The Noble Lord seemed to overlook one, of the . Noble Lord himself whether there was in Scotland strongest arguments•against his measure, iii. the any person of considerable property Oho bad not ac- Terms of the Union. He was far from arguing that quired the right to vote? IVlany, he would admit, every provision of that Treaty should be immutable, enjoyed the' right from a mere technical poiseision of but he was sure that.a change in the state of the' lie property. It.would be impossible to devise any mode presentation had not at the time of the Union been 'of election by which-the sense of the lauded interest considered as likely to take place. He did not think could be more effectually expressed than it was at that any treaties were of sufficient force to bind a peo present. The Noble Lord snarl this Could' not be the' pie against making such alterations as the common case, as many of the voters were merely nom i na l.... _advantage of all, tendered necessary—(•lfear). But The Noble Lord himself was chosen by . a large ma: l he . contended that this, of all other subjects, was that jollity of nominal voters.createck.by, the Overweening "ilia! PrFiouted the greatest difficulty towards ascer influence of a certain ble t hlenuns v . The i n froeoie a taming what was clearly understood to . lse the ad thevantage of all. An argument had been derived from aristocracy was much less felt inEcothind than in England, and the tendency of the measure now pro. the abolition . cf heritable jurisdiction. But it was posed was to increase it very Much. It Was . irne - the .evident from the manner in v;iaich heritable jurisdic greatfins h e , tion had been mentioned in body of the popylation had no votel4the Act of Union, that would not admit that to be ate "evil in iiielE If they{ the abolition of that jurisdiction could not sanction were to break down in Scotland those barriers that any alteration in the elective franchise. The heritable existed for so many. yeats, • he did uot see Where they jurisdiction had .been mentioned in that Act as a were to stop. How could they.resist_ the proprixitiOrq. species of right of property, and therefore the abo= of those who were friendly to a more extended pion lition could he justified only on the ground that any of Reform? One topic had been carefully kept out .abolition of private property could be justified, viz. of view by the Noble Lord-be .meaot the Act 'of, by a suitable compensation ; and accordingly in th e Union. He (Sir George Clerk) was not dielsiisedl,o l , Act for abolishing heritable jurisdiction,. a cooripensa carry the argument so far as son" and to deny that don: had_ been expressly provided for. Without the Legislature might. not exercise a certain' disco- 'dwelling longer on that point, he 'would proceed to Lion ; but he contended that the Article, of Mien advert to the other ground of the Noble Lord. The were a .complete hat to any Material - alteration irs Noble Lord asserted that the representation of a the sxstero of Scotch Representation. • .There Was no Scotch' county was only a paper superiority. The necessity for any change, and it was not celled for Noble Lord. had said. that he would have real pro by the People. What evils had Scotland suffered per_ty, if be could ;if not, prope:ty in another shape. from the present system? None that -he could . see. Wb.*t then, if the Noble Lord's arguments were cor;- It was in 141 o! r# -*bete the elective • franc' hi rect.; became of the .franchise of the most populous was most emensiv4ymijoyed that the greatest evils towns, wkin the non-delivery of a signed paper gave ex i ste d. H e m i g h t app ea l t 0 t he s tat e of I re lod to an individual a right of voting ? What became for some years back, Lb prove t4ittlt6 Scotchsystent again of the franchise of other Boroughs, where a right worked 4106 better than .that where the right Of al:voting was given merely by boiling a pot ? The voting was so universal. . The only evil the Noble lion. Gentleman, after some further arguments, in Which he took a view of the general subject of Re- Lord complained of was, that property did not con= ' fey the right olvoting. .He admitted, however, that fOrm,;4liichiticd by declaring it to be his intention to there were very few possessing property whci :did not oppose the Motion. . enjoy that right, and that numbers. were acquiring .Sir.J..MACKINTOSH said, that in arguing the it every day. As to the delays t the inconyentente, 'question he w.ould remind the House of an observa and expense of WhiCh the 140,h 1 e LOrd Complained in, tion which had been made by an Hon. Baronet in the 1 1 6 owl) cas e,giei.,wein n ot greater th an t h a n . ) e i e e. early paft of the evening, viz. that this case not only ..xienced everydatiaconsequence of contested.electionn called for a Reform, - but that it was one which, if lin thiseoumtly.aWith- respect to the Sherifkriefer as agreed tai,%;plitd Oen; by any necessary consequence' he knew, they alwaysected With the greaten *tar. lead to any other change in the parliamentary constl tialityAhe&WeLosd st;ated tb4political biases:liked :iation. The Hon. Baronet h4cl stated some of those. inrthisgoorta.. U. would put. it to the Noble Lord, reasons Which'were • advanced by every • opponent, f ' l k whether there were not-as many of the dodges who Re&srin. He had argued, that because some abuses typtecifor itagainst him . tißon the occasion alluded to? existed. in ;the English. Constiturion, they justified the ;-'.,4ttirio the other case, with which lie occupied . Xo, general abuses, whirl pregailed- in the whole. Scotch ill i th . , o c i b“i nsabi g o h n li u nte . it went to. a Jury, system. , tipwitis Noble! Friend; in introducing the * l6 thersaoe . t h e ig o bs e _L oe d one it i ati ng damages: question, had not .on stated as aitobjeCtipn that the tt+.3#er,therefore, and apt tile entets.l6oulii• have present system inlaid' landedpropY4tofS; but that • ~ i 'beende objects ' wars inithadversion. ...He WM icirry t opened the, door to those who were not - proprietors. to bear those common-place calumnies against the But of what avail was it to state in this argument, that copyholders and leaseholders *ere excluded t from voting at county elections in En g l an d? T he law (4 . England went on the principl e th at the Rre body. of the electors in counties were landholders; ; and it afforded to every proportion, both hi g h an d l ow, its due and natural influence. The electi v e f ranc hi ls 1 in Scotland was not complained of because it here and there excluded a few landed pionrieters, but-14. -- cause it excluded whole bodies of persons, respects. ble in - number, respectable in property and talent s ... and who would make a respectable part of the co n . • stintent body of any country. It was well icemen:. that to qualify a person in Scotland .a mere residence' was not necessary. It had been contended that SZet".• land was only a 'distract of England; and that them:. fore the abuses of the former :lace were justithtile;, - .on the ground erat there were many places in Eli . laud where the popular principle . was hr less acts* . operation clam ir. other places. But be should like to; know in n hat part that principle was wholly. extinerYt Was it extinct even in Cornwall, that Holy Laird et: -the boroughniongels? But he could furnish a more serious answer to the urgnment. What wa s th e re i : son that the representatives of one ran of Englaurf • were supposed to be also the representatives of tie A hole kiogdom? It was because the same systemor law was recognised throughout •-England. 'lt Vat. otherwise in Scotland. In that very Treaty of loon. uhich bad been so strongly referred to, a diftere a f. system of law in Scotland had been recognized tope that which prevailed in England. It seal uvulae the Constitution of England afforded some security to Scotland, bet that security was no more than it wculd possess if -it had no elective franchise; it was the same security that India possessed ;- and it wa s* liecarue the English Coestiturion•wotild not admit that such a representation as deli which prevailed in - Scotland was a sufficient security for the good ga. verument of any country: Scotland required Me' extension of popular Representation; and, although • the Hon. and Learned Gentleman who had spoke* last contended: that the Union Act prevented ! Rik form in the Scottish Repo esentatioq , he could not .orii` • I *lcicle with arguments e hich 'allowed that property, as intim cased heritahle jurisdiction, could be aimed.. ' but which allowed no change in the political privileges. • The Scotch people . sere said to be averse from the Change; but that Was not the case tither now or at the time of the change of the heritable jurisdictions. The people of England required that their fellow. subjects, their brothers of an United Kingdom, should have their rights as citizens ot-the Stare truly assured to them. The ancient Constitution of Scotland re cognised the right of general suffrage, as was evi. • dent from various Acts o s .f. the Scottish Parliament passed at various times. In-the reign of King limed. in 1427, an Act passed for the election of two wise men from each Sheriffdom to represent their knows. • That Act bad passed into disnetusle, but it had been renovated and acted upon in,1587. The Claim of . Rights and the Articles of Grievances were import ant, and had been presented to King William and Queen Mary in 1689, at the momentous time of the British Revolution, and the privileges of equal of t (rage had been recognised in the Act passed for the extension of. Representation in Scotland, and which added twenty-six Representatives to the greater Counties, being an addition of one-Still to the whale Representation; the number of Representatives fortis Shrievedonwbeing sixty-six, and for the Burghs sirty five. The. Peers -having sate in the same Chamber,. the legislative privilege became therefore the less important to them, and yet that Act had been passed.. At the Treat y of the Onion, although- the perfidious.. Parliorient-• of Scotland. had negotiated their own. disgrace, while they degraded their country, yet they had maintained the principle of that referee... The changes Which had. taken place in the! state bf Scotland dUring the last hundred years,. bad'' raised another body of men, moral, intelligent,. and enlightened, who now require that they.sheuld: enjoy the same privileges which their English fellow.- subjects do. The celebrated .Andrew Fletcher bad (nice recommended that the Scotch should be re duced to slavery, in order to better their conditieen-a.: But now that was not the case; the Scotch'were ear enlightened peopl e, and were they to be refused the' blessings which, as tritons, they deserved? 'haute of Scotland was not similar to that of Ireland; for if the extension of suffrage was injurious to Ireland, it. could not be said that it could be so in Seotland..r.. He, as a Scotchnran, was anxious to seehit COlOll , elevated to the rank it deserved in the British COosti• union ; and' he was ashamed to hear it mitintelaed,. While the newly-liberated nations of the Continent were said to deserve in their countries the same pri vileges as Englishmen-in England, that Scotchmen; were not' fit for them. Liberty was the source of every private and public blessing, and was Sealant, not fit for it? Were the Scoter not a mural people? - ; —an enlightened people ?---a wise peopte?:—atid were they not to have the privileges of Britons? lie did not ask for the grant of that-priailege to the Na ' . groes in the West Indies, but to the moral arid en lightened people of Scotland. The stoney; tor th 4 measure would not bind any Member to roister • Parliamentary Reform ; for the case of Scotland Pa being popular as the election of Comity Menibels it could not pledge any Member:of that figure to,ioltil for Parliamentary Reform sin- Ragland.; He waehte therefore, support the motion of his. Noble Sneed. Lord BINI4ING , protested against thc• 403 that the change of the ScotelCrepte,entatioer not interfere with the reforlar of the English repreren tation. It would be worse in Scotland than tilinf troduction Of the system of Universal /tee in England. 'He appealed to ani persoo w ren: the state of Scotland, to declare whether St was not a free country'?. The .NobleLond *OO l 4 l quotation from ;t popishe'periodicat •ptsblkiallsil r; demonstrate Tim . . truth of:his proposition, th*ttbe sent Parliamentary representation watira good as any which could be'devised by..theorisb; i : the state of the llarliament was'not kgOestele tib''' ? W s . Scotch reaple, • Why had they...not peon korai, _." O what had the people of Scotland 105t.0 1 14 36 T2n. By what means. could it be:hewn-that elii.ficn' ell people were not duly represented in that Hin : .°' well as every other clals•bt *itish.subjects? ljagt. House agree& to .Parliatnenary Reform, be support the change desired in Scotland, but .otif , then. There was eb pant - of .the Unit rid RtllB . ', where land-was poseestist of siimirch . realliifitieolt in Scotland. The comity of Lanark proved.tl o o . ',I: practice of the system was useful, and the House 007 not, therefore, to adopt all the theories proposed ‘