Star. — London, England, 1831-03-08 00:00:00

i IMPERIAL PA BLIAM FNT. HOUSE OF 1.011 OS. MATCH 7. Lord HARDWICK presented petitions from the Clergy of Ely and .t parish in the county of Cambridge, against Negro Slavery. The noble lord likewise presented a petition' from the inhabitants of Wisbeach, against a bill before their lordships for the establishment of a Small O.bt Court. Earl TTANHOPE prekotted a petition from a parish in Kent, corn pl.eiting of distress, and prnv lug for relief. The petitioners thought the repeal of the malt tax would he a considerable relief. The Earl of RADNOR presented two petitions for Reform in Parliament. The Appropriation Bill, the 5.000,0001. Consolidated Fund Bill, and t Art private Bills, were read the third time. arena's. lord WHARNCLI FEE adverted to the notice he gave on Thins slay last of his intention to move, next Thursday, for returns respecting the population of the several counties, and to introduce the subject of Reform. At the time he gave that notice he had not the least Idea that the discus-ion in the other House would extend as it had done.— (Hear, hear. hear.) Ile did not wish to be the means of bringing toraanl the import:int question of Reform irregularly, and therefore should move that the order for summoning their Lordships on Thurs &ay next be discharged : it was however. still his intention to introduce the uitjert at the earliest opportunity. Earl GREY ; after full consideration of the measure to which the Noble Baron had 'alluded, said he was prepared to meet any discussion which the Noble Baron, in the exercise of his discretion, might think' proper to introduce, Whatever might be the inconvenience likely to result irons bringing forward the question upon a collateral motion. he (Fsati Grey) should certainly not object to the same course. He did not object when the Noble Lord gave his notice, neither should he ob ject on that occasion, being perfectly ready to enter upon the question whenever it should come before the House. The order was then discharged. The Duke of SUSSEX said he held in his hand a petition front the inhabitants of the Hamlet of Hammersmith, praying for iteforns, retrenchment in the public expenditure, and revision of the Poor Laws. In presenting this petition his Royal Highness had to elate that the petitioners professed to he unanimously of opinion that votes for members of Parliament should be by ballot. From letters received by the illustrious duke, it appeared doubtful whether the general opinion of the inhabitants of Hammersmith was in favour of ballot. His Royal Highness could not give his consent instanter to ballot. The question must he deeply considered before he gave his consent. While presenting this petition, his Royal Highness could not help expressing to his noble friends who presided over the Government his sincere thanks for the manly and able way in which they had brought forward a measure so satisfactory to the country. He assured their lordships that the measure, when it came before that house, should have his warm support, and so far as the wishes of his Royal High ness went, he really did pray the measure might pass into a law. The petition was read and laid on the table. Lord KING presented a petition front persons composing the Wicklow Union, tor alteration of the tithe system. The Noble Lord said, the petitioners confirmed every word he had said on a former day, upon the subject of that union.—Petitions to the same effect were pre seated from Kilkenny, Dungarvon. and the county of Down. Lord FARNHAM was desirous of saying he adhered strictly to what he said on a former occasion, respecting the Wicklow Union. The Noble Lord then presented two petitions on a subject, which it was almost unnecessary to say he disapproved. The first was from Fianna, in the county of Wexford, for repeal of the Legislative Union ; the second from the Tin-plate-workers of Dublin to the same effect- He also presented a petition from the Parish of St. Mary, Dublin, praying for the removal of all duties on sugar imported from the colo nies. and one to the same effect from Tipperary. LUNACY PILL. The LOH D CHANCELLOR said, the bill•forjregulating Chan cery lunatics stood for commitment that night. His noble friend the Lord Chief Baron was indisposed, and not being able to attend on that occasion, wished the bill to proceed in his absence. He (the Lord Chancellor), sensible of the advantage the measure would derive from the assistance of his noble friend, was unwilling to pro ceed, therefore wished to postpone the committee for at least three weeks, to afford his noble friend, the Chief Baron, an opportunity to be present. He accordingly moved the order for the committee to be discharged and fixed for that day three weeks.—The motion was agreed to. SWAN RIVER. Viscount GODERICH mo v ed that an humble address be presented to his Majesty. praying his Majesty would be graciously pleased to order there be laid before that house copies of all dispatches transmitted by the Lieut.-Governor of the settlement of the Swan River, subsequent to the Ist of Jan. 1830.—Ordered. DIBTOIIB AND CNIDITOIIII SILL. The house went into committee on the bill to prevent debtors de frauding their creditors by remaining in prison. Lord WYNFORD having proposed several amendments. and added a clause to the Bill, the report was ordered to be received to-morrow. COMMON LAW COURTS. The House ab , c, went into Committee on the Bill to prevent delay in poszcutina suits in Courts of Common Law. Lord NV YNFORD and Lord TENTERDEN made several verbal ar :ndtnents, which were agreed to.—Report to-morrow. BHiPPIN6 INTEREST. Earl STANHOPE presented a petition from the Ship-owners of South Shields, praying that inquiry may be made into the state of the shipping trade, and such relief given as may afford protection to the petitioners. The Noble Earl, in presenting this petition, reminded their Lordships of the observations he had formerly made on the great injustice and injury done to the ship-owners by cutting off their various Lranclies of commerce. Parliament had not listened to the petitions of the people, and distress had risen to the present alarming height, in consequence of inattention on the part of the Legislature. The Noble Earl presented another petition from the same place against the con templated increase of duty on Canada timber. The petitions having been read and laid on the table the House ad journed. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Colonel DAVIS presented the Report of the Seaford Election Com ir,ittee, which stated that Mr. Ellice had been duly returned. Mr. Danvers from the East India House, brought up a return of the trade between Great Britain and China during the last year.—Or dtred to lie on the table. A new writ was ordered for Blilbourne Port, in the room of Mr. Sturges Boum., who has accepted the Chiltern Hundreds. Mr. HUGHES HUGHES presented a petition from Manchester, for a Bill to enable persons to build Churches, iSce. Sir R. BATESON presented a petition for the abolition of slavery from Belfast. _ Mr. GUEST moved for a return of the population of towns in Wales, not sending Representatives to Parliament—Agreed to. Mr. DENNISON presented a petition from Newington, applauding the measure of the minister, and praying that it might paw into a lawn He considered that it spoke the language of the people of England. (A solitary voice said, No.) Well, the measure might be thrown out now, but as to defeating it, they might as well attempt to stop the tides of she ocean. (Cheers.) Mr. BRISCOE supported the prayer of the petition, and added his mite of gratitude to Ministers for the measure, and his warm congra tulations to the whole country. Mr. LA BOUCHERE said, his constituents at Taunton, though a po.walloppicg borough, were deligtoed with the plan of Reform proposed by Ministers, which trust give satisfaction to the whole country. Mr. H. HOWARD Fresei.tcd a petition fiom Shoreham, for pro tection ;or the timber trade. Mr. PHILPOTS presented a petition from Stroud signed by six Magistrates, for the extension of beer licences. Sir W. HEATHCOTE presented two petitions from parishes in Hants for the abolition of slavery. Mr. H DRUMMOND presented a petition from Port Glasgow, against the alteration of the timber duties. The Marquis of CHANLOS moved for a new wait for Hythe, in the room of Sir P. Sydney, who has accepted the Chiltern Hundreds. Sir It. FERGUSON presented a petition against the timber duties, hum Lontinnderry. T. AC LA ND presented a petition from Okehampton, for reform iu Parliament. Goionel BA ILLI E presentee] the Bristol Reform Petition. Captain HARRIS presented a petition from Great Grimsby, for the abolitict of slavery. Air. ADEAN presented a petition from the Isle of Ely, in favour Gf the plan of reform proposed by Ministers, and praying the house to support the same. Air. BELL presented a petition front the ship-owners of Newcastle, against the proposed alteration in the timber duties ; and petitions from Nook Shields and South Shields, against the Richmond shilling duty nn ec,,l-. Sir N. W. RIDLEY presented a petition from Newcastle-upon- Tyne, signed by 3000 persons, in four hours, for Parliamentary Rctorm. Sir C. FORBES said he considered the plan proposed by the noble lord was radically bad, and though he represented one of the denounced boroughs, nothing should prevent him doing his duty. The most im portant speech made on the subject was that of the hon. member fur Preston, who said he would take so much and thank you for it ; and then conic for the sort of radical reform, vote by ballot, annual Portia. rents, and universal suffrage. He should give such a measure every opposition in his power. Sir J. WROTTESLEY said there were numerous petitions in town not presented, in favour of Reform, and an immense number coming up in favour of the plan of reform proposed by Ministers. The measure had given the greatest satisfaction to the whole country. I,ord BERNARD presented a petition from Innishannon, county of Cork, for the abolition of slavery. Colonel CHICHESTER presented a petition from a parish in Wex. find, for the repeal of the Union. 31r. O'CONNELL supported the prayer of the petition. Colonel O'GRADY presented a similar petition from a parish in Limerick. • Lord G. SOMERSET presented a petition from Newport, for the repeal of the house tax, andasked, was it the Intention of ministers co l repaid it Lard.ALTHORP said hs was Envy isms not in his power to pro. n reduellon of the asopsod.texas Olds Session. An Hon. MEMIIEII, vaniee name Is 44 not know, said if the noble lord would continue tke swap &vim' rteefeleiPereet the Me et• rate s he cold tabs the Weise tax of all hotises tinder Hal. a-year. An Hon. MENIRER said, when the time came, he would propose, that the newspapet tax be reduced to one halfpenny. Colonel SI BTHOSP thought if an angel from Heaven wu Minister he could not please every one; but he hoped tbe noble lord would give some relief from the house tax, and asked when the newspaper tel would be reduced. Lord ALTHORP said, he proposed that the reduction on the newspaper tax should take place on the sth of July ; and he hoped (as we understood him) to mailman arrangement respecting the coal duty, to prevent any loss on the duty mkt on stock on hand. REFORM. Colonel SIBTHORP moved that the Order of the day for resuming the adjourned Debate on Reform be read. The Marquis of CHANDOS raid he had the permission of,' the Gallant Colonel for addressing the House for a few moments. It was most desirable that the discussions of that House should be free ; but it was notorious that the friends of Ministers were all oyez the country, threatening Members who voted against the mea sure with the consequences. It was reported in the Morning Chronicle of Saturday, that on Thursday a meeting in favour of Reform was held at the Crown and Anchor Tavern, in which a gallant officer, late Member for Rye, said he was just come from attending a de form Meeting in Sussex, where there were 10,000 men ready to march up to London to support Ministers, He wished Ministers to say how they intended to act towards persons using such threats against Members who did their duty in that house. Lord ALTHORP said it was the wish of Ministers that the ques tion should be cahnly discussed 011 ha true merits- it was certain the people felt a strong interest in the question, and where that was the case, public meetings would take place, and strong expressions would he used. He thought the expression used by Colonel Evans was a vio lent and a foolish one—but it was not such as the Government should interfere with. (Hear.) Sir C. WETHERELL said it was the duty of ministers to prevent agitation. The noble lord said Colonel Evan's speech was violent and foolish, but there were persons in this country who suspected that they du not take means to prevent such inflammatory speechei. That threats took place out of doors no one who read the daily effusions of the papers could doubt ; but he would say threats were used in the house. The hon. Paymaster told them they must vote ter the bill, or the country should be convulsed. The SPEAKER called the honourable gentleman to order, and be sat down. Lord ALTHORP said, the noble marquis had accused them of ex. citing threats and intimidation. He was sensible it was their duty to prevent either, and they would use the power of the law, if necessary, for that purpose. (Hear, hear.) Sir E. KNATCHBULL said he was confident the noble lord would agree with him, that if there were persons connected with Go vernment endeavouring to excite the people, that Government should matrate itself from such persons. (Hear, hear.) He was averse to tall any man to the bar for expressions he had used ; but he would submit to Government, whether the language used by Colonel Evans should not be prosecuted by the Attorney-General ! Mr. BRNETT could tell the honourable gentleman who appeared so much alarmed at the expression of public opinion In favour of Re form, that the opinion was gaining the greatest strength all over the kingdom ; and that the feelings of the people would be expressed in the strongest manner in favour of the most important measure ever passed by Parliament. (Hear, hear.) Sir E. KNATCHBULL aid be did not object to the expression of public opinion, but wished it to be made in the regular way.— (Hear, hear.) Alderman WOOD said, he had just come from a Common Hall, consisting of thousands of persons, where the Ministerial plan of Re. tom was unanimously agreed to. (Hear, hear.) Mr. COKE said, though an old reformer, he never expected to see such an excellent plan of reform. He was delighted to ace it brought in by a Russell. (Hear, hear.) He was upwards of half a century in Parliament, every year convinced him more and more of the necessity of reform. The reform now proposed would do the Ministers everlasting honour, and secure the institutions of the country and the happiness of the people. (Hear, hear.) The order of the day being read, Colonel SIBTHORP said, from all the consideration he had been able to give the plan of Reform proposed by Ministers, which even the radical reform Member for Middlesex had declared surpassed his ex pectation, it was not surprising that he, who, though a reformer, was not a radical, should think it went:too far for him to support. He la mented that Ministers had not proposed a plan of Reform in which all the House agree. He was bound to pause before he could support a measure from which, if injurious, there would be no retreat. Though there were many blemishes in the representation of the country, yet, when the noble lord at one fell swoop disfranchised so many, who never offended, to bestow it on those who bad never possessed it, he must say that the measure was partial, unjust, and tyrannical. He thought the noble lord's selection of boroughs, both of those to be destroyed and of those to be preserved, was partial ; and that a dissolution had been threatened to operate on the fears of Members ; but he was not afraid to go to his constituents at any time. He thought if persons holding places and pensions were excluded from Parliament, it would be a most beneficial Reform. Wishing that the Bill, which he thought would never pass, should be fully examined, he should not oppose its intro ductioe, but he would oppose all its details. What would the Clerk of the Ordnance say, who sat for the rotten borough of Bleechingley, on which his Majesty's Ministers had pronounced sentence of death, as in. capable of sending an honest member to that house—( A laugh.) There was one great defect in the proceedings on this Bill, that was...no pro vision had been made for improving the accommodation for the public press, which was necessary to put the public in full possession of the debates on this momentous question. Mr. TENNYSON said, he was so pointedly called on that he could not forbear trespassing on the House. He was accused of sitting for the rotten borough of Bletchingley. He thought it no disgrace to sit for Bletchingley, though be bad but one constituent, as he had always supported Reform, and was prepared to commit what was called political suicide for the salvation of his country.—(Hear, hear.) The sacrifice, indeed, was nothing to him ; but his hon. friend, the member foe Durham, was ready to make a sacrifice of three of those nominations, and was prepared to place 100,0001. on the altar of his country.—(Hear, bear.) His Majesty's ministers were the true friends of the King and the people, and would Eight the battle of both against the many-headed monster which had so long waned against constitu tional liberty.—(Hear, hear.) Sir GEORGE CLARKE said he rose to protest against the in ference drawn by the Lord Advocate from the silence of Scotch Mem bers that the plan of Reform proposed for that county had their con currence. The Noble Lord who proposed the plan had not entered in to the details of the Bill respecting Scotland. He was aware the mo tion before the House applied only to England. No doubt when a si. miler Bill was introduced respecting Scotland, the details would be fully explained, till then he would not be considered as giving any ap probation to that part of the plan applicable to Scotland. He thought lie could not approve of diminishing the number of County Members in Scotland, which he was confident would be generally condemned in that country. The question now before the House was whether there existed any overbearing necessity for making so extraordinary a change in the constitution of England as was now proposed by the Noble Lord 1 He did not deny the competence of the King, Lords and Commons to make the proposed change. but it was only a change to be justified by extreme necessity. The Learned Lord told them that F.ngland was happy under the Tudors and Smarts; (he Sir G. Clarke) was ready to abide by the constitution established at the revolution— (Hear, hear ). He thought the speech of his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Croker), on Friday night, must have satisfied the House that the cause try were for years at rest on this question till they had been recently excited. 31r. Canning hal declared that to the last day of his life be would oppose refaces, and the noble lewd (John Russell) said, in excuse for his friends who had taken office, that they were not pledged to it, and that as a party the Whip did not support it. Since then there ha been no petitions for reform till after the Catholic Relief Bill wee passed. The general election, the revolution of Jule in Paris, and the opposition to the Duke of Wellington for passing the Relief Bill, in. duced many to raise a call for reform, which, he believed, many 41, them now bitterly repented. The Lord Advocate had said there wee no petition against reform, but he would say that almost all the pad. tions asked for vote by ballot, without which the people would not be satisfied. All the petitions complained of heavy taxation, and they ail expected that a reform in parliament would diminish their blankest he hoped they did not meditate an attack on the public creditor. If MI found that all the petitions for reform proceeded on false data, and if the bill was thrown out, as he expected it would. and that parliament were dissolved, he hoped the hon. gentlemen would have the candour to go to their constituents with the Chancellor of the Exchequer's budget in their bands, and show them that no reduction could take place, and then the petitions for reform would be few indeed. The great reduction of offices that had taken place under the late government had greatly diminished the influence of the novo, as he had no doubt the pintail government must have experienced. The expense of elections all man wish to diminish; but the plan of the noble lord, by increasing the number of voters, would increase those expenses, and make bribes, more generaL (Hear.) The plan sought to diminish the power of tbo aristocracy to return members to that house, and it also diminished the number of scot and lot voters. In 1821, the member for Durham brought forward a measure of reform analogous to the present, on which occasion Mr. Abercrombie, a reformer, said be could n ever consent to the proposed plan, as he c onsidered it revolutionary. He considered the present measure to be dangerous and impracticable, and should ever feel proud in having his name inscribed in the large majority by whom the bill would be rejected. Mr. PELHAM supported the proposed plan of Reform, which he was confident would satisfy the people, and secure tbeonstitu tution.--( Hear.) Mr. HOPE said he repjesented the condemned. bump* of Gatton, buevyas satisfied his address to the souse would. not he ditneganled on that account. He, u a Scotch gentleman, would pledge himself to 'mectrite Lord Advocate of Scotland or the plan of Refeem, u it affected Scot)azal. He was aware of 'the 'pleaded talent of the learned lord ; bat stab. would suppou the iristitutions of a country whleb his an cestors were amongst the foremost to defend. (Hear.) If Reform were ne~t~ry, it must be for some reasons different from those urged by the other side of the house. He reprobated the idea of the reason usigned that the measure should• pass, namely, that the house should yield to the call of the people, he would not give it tile offensive designation, of the clamour of the people. No reasonable cause had been assigned for that cry of the people ; the cry had Dot been made an end, but a means for another object. All the petitions that had been presented, had contained a prayer for. reduction of taxation, and the middling classes of persons looked through Reform to accomplish that objects— He could not blame the people fee their expressions of feeling, seeing that their mind, had been inflamed by misrepresentation of public measures and public men ; by exaggerated accounts of their salaries, and similar circumstances. The hon. member stated, that he had no doubt but that the hon. members on the ministerial bench had In a great de gree unintentionally tended to heighten that excitement of the public mind. lie objected to the measure because it would ex. dude one class of the community from becoming representatives, and it would separate the ties that existed between the different classes of the people. Lord D. STUART said that all the eloquent speeches he had heard in opposition to the measure, had not contained a single reason that could induce him to change his opinion on the subject. He had no doubt but that the measure would psis; he did not think that the 168 members fur rotten boroughs which were in that house could prevent its passing. He was delighted with the conduct of his Majesty's Mi nisters, tot introducing the measure ; and he hoped it would be tri umphantly carried, as it was the only means by which could be pre. served the benefits of the glorious revolution of 16116. Mr. TYRRELL wished that he had seen the measure disposed of long before that night, and he had hoped that its death-warrant had been signed by the unanswerable speech which had been delivered on a previous evening by a right hon. baronet who sat below him (Sir R. Peel.) A premium might now be offered for a new Idea on the sub ject. He thought public opinion had been very much over-stated un. til lately. He had had the opportunity of knowing personally the sen timents of a large number of constituents in one of the most strongly contested elections that had taken place in England, and there Puha , mentary Reform had been entirely lost sight of. He had never been asked about Parliamentary Reform in his canvass, nor had he been called upon to allude to it in his address. A petition had been presented from the eonnty in which the borough was situated that he had the honour to represent but he denied that it represented the un timettts of the people—it was not signed by his Majesty's represent ative (a laugh)—the Sheriff, who was his 'Majesty'srepresentative,had refused to put his name to it. He (Mr. Tyrrell) was decidedly op posed to this revolutionary measure of the Ministry. It had been said that those hon. members who were on the Opposition side opposed every thing and proposed nothing; but he had a proposition of his own to make. He should form a united Cabinet, and depute one more able than himself to express his sentiments. (A laugh.) He should then move for an abolition of the Assessed Taxes, and for a well.regulated proper ty. ta x. lilr. SYKES gave his cordial support to the Bill. He approved of the abolition of non-resident voters, which would save much expense. The present measure was called unconstitutional and revolutionary. (Hear.) He contended that to take sway the right of voting from the rotten boroughs, to confer it on the counties, was merely a change. He wished honourable gentlemen would say where what is called a change ends, and where a revolution begins. He denied that that House should be under the influence of the King and the Lords. The Constitution gave the people a third of the legislative power. Of what use was the House of Lords, if they were to have the voices, wisdom, and influence of the Lords in the Commons House. He denied that the corporation disfranchisement was a robbery ; all the benefits origi nally intended to be conferred by the franchise would remain guar. anteed to each borough. He defended the present measure on the broad basis of utility, and because it gave to the people their just and legiti• mate rights. He veiny believed the plan was satisfactory to all classes. All the letters he had received expressed the joy which it occasioned throughout the large county of York. The individuals respectable for intelligence and property were now, for the first time, called upon to give their vote in elections, and if the measure passed—as he trusted it would-..it would put an end to all those agitations which had so long disturbed the country. Mr. L. WELLESLEY might be one of those who, as it was said, might be deprived of their rights and property by the present measure, but he was mean indeed who put his own private loos in the balance against the interest of the country. With respect to the county meet ing in Essex, it had been most numerously and respectably attended.— It was, indeed, a general feeling throughout Ewa, and throughout the country, that reform was necessary, not for revolution or the destruction of the institutions, but to restore to these their primeval excellence, and to prevent a general commotion. Nothing but a conviction that the general cry was for reform, retrenchment, and non.intervention, could have induced him to act as he at present did. He assured the house on the word and honour of a gentleman, that his personal feelings led him to support the former Administration, but be had sacrificed his private feelings to the convict:on that the salvation of the country demanded a new system of policy. The direction which the debate had taken would have at least this advantage, that it could no longer be denied, as for merly, that reform was necessary, for all the speakers had agreed on that point, however much they might differ as to the mode of reform. The number and nature of the petitions proved that reform was demanded not only by the lower, but even by the middle classes. The honour able member for Oxford had said that the subject had been agitated by the people fifty years back. But all those conversant with the Araks of the country knew that the people were formerly much more apathetic with respect to the public administration, because much less burthened, than at presefit. Here the member became almost inaudible from the noise and confusion in the house. He was understood to justify the proposed disfranchisetnents by precedent. He alluded to the state of Spain deprived of the Cortes, and conjured all those who had any thing at stake, to support the measure for the sake of preserving their property. Bit G. RRENDER deprecated the measure as not augmenting, but confiscating the rights of the people.—( Hear.) He lamented, how ever, that the former administration had not transferred the right of re. presentation to Manchester, Birmingham, and Leeds, from the bo roughs convicted of corruption. But to deprive an Englishman of his franchise rights was a gross injustice. He had received a communica tion from his constituents, in which even the radicals 'coined in depre cating this disfranchisement. With regard to Scotlan d , the iatroduc lion of the 101. voters would deprive the landed interest of all influence. The petition from the Reform Meeting at Edinburgh did not represent the general opinion in that city. Again, a petition had been presented, purporting to come from the County of Roxburgh generally, whereas it came only from the heritors.—(Hear.) The gentlemen opposite might l cheer , but they themselves were, perhaps, like the petitioners, having a great deal about them of the nasal appeteru, but very little of the sat prolusus.—(Cheers.) All these radical men were very ready to take away the franchise from others, but very I.th to touch their own in terests.—(Cheers.) He should not oppose the introduction of the mea sure, as it was so vast and important. But he must say that it did not do away with corruption. If the people wished for Reform they must reform themselves.—(Hear.) He said this, because he knew what would be the consequences of extending the franchise; there would be quite as much corruption in the applications for places. Oh, no ; let the people reform themselves—he wished to be reformed..—(A laugh.) He had no hesitation in saying, that the plan now proposed was contrary to the wishes of his constituents. He would express his opi nion fearlessly, though he had been held up to obloquy by that dangerous power the diurnal press, for opinions heretofore given by him on this subject on the presentation of some petitions. Let that powerful engine say what it might, he would now express his opinion to be decidedly against this measure. At the same time, he felt it due to himself to say, thct he would give no factious op position to the bill. He had heard rumours of some cabal formed for such purpose, but he would not lend himself to any cabal: he would throw no other than fair obstructions in the way of the bill—(Cheers.) Lord HOWICK expressed his astonishment at the language ap. plied by some Honourable Members to this measure, some calling it spoliation, and laying hands on the property of others. Was the sell. ing of votes a traffic that it was spoliation to interfere with ? The con. stituents of the Right Hon. Baronet who last addressed the House might be against the measure; but if they could be called to that bar, and if he could institute inquisitorial proceedings by which he could get at the sort of influence by which the Hon. Bart. was returned to the House, he doubted not that he should be warranted in moving for a Bill that would be as little palatable to those constituents as the present measure. But be that as it might, after the East Retford solemn and tedious farce, the people would be no longer put off. He did not mean to say that there could be materially seduced taxation (hear); but the people required a reform of that power whose wasteful expenditure had led to such a state of things--(hear, hear,)—the burdens and improper proceedings of which were the accumulation of a century's imperfect e:t rule. This measure was to avert the power of exerting sinister infiu. ens.—(Hear, hear.) The Ministers were of opinion, that without such a measure of Reform there was no security against the recurrence of extravagance and periods of distress. Almost all the taxation of the country was now required to meet the obligations occa. sloned by the national debt—by pensions—by superaanuadons, which, by the way, were a disgrace to the House ; and he repeated, that if taxation could not immediately be materially reduced, it was truly felt that reform would correct the faulty system under which such dif. acuities had grown up, and prevent the recurrence of evils which had produced such dangerous results. And the merit of this measure, he submitted, was the real caution that characterized it where there was such apparent boldness. It would leave nothing for subsequent riffs. pules—it would be a settling of the question—not " a payment to ac. count." He had always sincerely desired reform ; but anxious ay h e w ait for reform, he should shrink from a remodelling of the present rtpresyn ta . tion. He sought no further change in the representation than he ow . tended was requisite to meet the evils complained of, and to secure the safety of those interests endangered by the defects of the present n.p o .. sentation. The plan said, where there was no population there should be no representation,Ond. where there were large masses, to give mere sentatives. That plan might not suit the honourable member for Ald... borough (Mr. Croker), whose eyes were only clear in finding out .ult., but if there were to be any principle applied to the correction of ti e presentation, this was defensible; as to the charges about revolutio and innovatioo, those who were for any Reform. hois t , , small might be the modicum, had no right to attem i , , frighten the supporters of this plan, by calling it innovation, iy. cause even they would be innovators. (Cries of " hear, h..-tr And as to the plan being extensive, he thought it would be equallt dangerous not to go far enough. And he would ask the menll rs t,. r Yorkshire and Cornwall what would be the consequence of e.eftatin • this measure, after the excitation that had taken place ?.. (Hear, hear") The people were excited, and he would say most properly excited.— (Cheers.)—He considered that the measure had been wisely and pm. perly brought forward, and that the people would not, and ought not to be satisfied with less than was now proposed —(flear, hear.) Thy reform proposed was at once cautious and efficient ; and as far as it had been possible to collect public opinion, there was reason to believe the the people would be satisfied with it ; and he therefore trusted that thi house would adopt it, so that this great question might be finally settled.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. W. J. PEEL said he should be glad to know when this debate wee likely to come to a conclusion ? He did not know that any thin.; new could now be said on. He should resist the measure as one tl' a , was abominably unjust in its principles and details He should resist it as a measure of spoliation towards those who had sent him to that ;louse for the last twelve years. The noble lord told them that tI would finally settle the question ; but though it might be the last dust he might prescribe, there were others to prescribe. He was persuaded, however, that his " purge would not pass.' If it did, then there would be Dr. Warburton and Dr. Hunt to prescribe their doses of ballot. A measure of a " matchless" character would follow He meant no un. friendly allusion ; he knew to what his own family were indebted fur what they possessed ; and many of them having got into that House. he should be a base villain if he did not resist the spoliation of that under which they had so prospered. As to the Ministers standing or falling by this measure, why they were on their last legs. when the mea. sure was proposed—their days were numbered, and they were existing only on sufferance. Those who would object to the spoliation of all property—of the tithes—of the Church--and to the destruction of the monarchy, he considered were bound to resist this motion. (Cheers.) Mr. J. RUSSELL strongly supported the motion, and lamented that it had been considered right, in resisting this great and excellent ma. sure, to attribute unworthy motives to those who brought forward or supported it. As to the ministers standing or falling by this measure, it ought ever to be borne in mind that they took office on the sacred promise, and on the high principle that they would bring forward a measure of reform. (Cheers.) The hon. member concluded by giving the bill his cordial support. Mr. WM. PEEL explained. Mr. J. WOOD observed, that he had been returned by the indepen dent suffrages of the voters of Preston, of whom there were (1,000: these, if the present measure passed, might be reduced to 1,000. But to them he should say, " True, your number is reduced, but a benefit has been conferred upon the people of England at large."... He should tell the honest voters of Preston, that though their fran chise had been limited, to 500,000 men had the benefit ban extended. If he were asked, when he next visited his constituents, " Did you vote for this bill ?" he should say he did, and that the rights of the people would be much better guarded, now that the abominalah borough system had been done away with, than if they had been left with universal suffrage. (Hear, hear, hear.) It was a subject of great triumph and consolation to him th at no member had got up in his place and said that no reform was necessary. That Parliament stands in need of reform, therefore, seemed to be a point granted, and it was only what species of reform hall be gzanted. (Hear.) He had that day received communications from Leer! Sheffield, Halifax. Li verpool, and indeed the principal manufacturing towns in the north of England, the waters of all of which expressed their joy and satisfac tion at the present measure, which wouM be, he was persuaded, the best security for a good government. (Hear, hear.) The house had been told by the honourable and learned member tor lioroughbridge, a great deal about corporation robbery, which appeared to him (Mr. W.) to be entirely gratuitous on the part of the honourable and learned member,t for the boroughs themselves supported the measure. In the great metropolis of London it had given sati‘faction, for a meeting expressive of that feeling bad taken place that day ; a simi lar one also had been held at Chester, and no doubt the example would be followed all over the country—but he had been told that by letting in the people it became a democratic, therefore a revolu tionary measure—in answer to suck a charge, he should take the liberty of reading to the house an extract from one of the published speeches of Mr. Canning, a speech he believed corrected by himself, and, therefore, to be depended upon. That statesman bad character ised the middle classes of society as the most valuable part of the com munity, and that the best chance of safety to the whole came from that body, which was to be found between the two extremes of high and low (bear, bear)--the individuals who composed that class had nothing to gain by confusion—they were those to whom the high ought to look to for friendly intentions and mutual cooperation; in short, in the loyalty of the middling classes rested, in a great measure, the boasted strength and security of the state.—(Hear, hear.) So had said the late Mr. !Canning; and it was to give to these, to the great bulk of the coon. try,the advantages which had been withheld from them, that the Bill of he Noble Lord was intended. The Hon. Member s aid, he should give the measure his support. Sir J. JOHNSTONE was convinced that the measure of the noble lord was dictated in the true spirit of liberality ; the want of a proper and direct representation had a bad effect on the Government of the country ; it gave cause for discontent, which became the fulcrum to raise the lever of sedition. The class of persons contemplated to be benefited by the present bill, was exactly that class to whom wise Le gislator ought to look with a hope of exterminating that bribery and corruption by which the arms of freedom were absolutely set against itself. He trusted that the people of England would, after the passing of the measure, look as the elective franchise merely as a means for putting money in their pockets. There was no danger of the aristocracy losing its just power or influence ; by the present measure the mid dling classes became the guardians of social order and the institutions of the country. He should support the bill chiefly because be was of opinion it would produce a moral regeneration in the habits and feel ings of the people. Mr. NORTH said, if any man was of opinion that the spirit of moderation guided any of his Majesty's ministers in framing the pee l sent measure, the speech which had been delivered by a noble lord (Howick) must undeceive him. That noble lord had insulted the victim he was about to sacrifice. Before he (Mr. North) should vote for such a tremendous change, he must inquire whether champ were I necessary. What recent miscarriage had taken place ? What bad been done in the year 1831, that his Majesty's ministers had dimovered, to their satisfaction, that the present representation of the people was utterly inefficient ? What were those new emergencies which figmbited a change of that system necessary which was found adequate to most the difficulties of a disputed succession, and the earthquake of a Fame is. volution ? Having carried the country through those and ether dill cultks with honour and glory, it was now found out to be bad, med new scheme was to be substituted; but his Majesty's minister MK that they were compelled to take these steps by difficulties of anodise kind ; that there was a loud &moot for reform out of dome which, they dared not to gainsay. For his own part be was not fully satisfied that any feeling of that kind really existed. No man in that assembly was more ready, or wil li ng, to attend to the voice of the people than he (Mr. North) was. He was not to be told that a tran sient or partial ebullition was to be considered as the current of public opinion..--(Hear, hear.) In a free country, possessing a free press, where every measure and system, however extraordinary. was discussed to the fullest extent, and with great license, these pasting transitory gusts of popular feeling were to be expected. He called. however, on his Majesty's Ministers to take care that they did not mistake such temporary feeling for permanent ones if they did, they may too late repent it, and be reproached for their act by pawns who now clamoured aloud fur its performance—who might say, •• in our rme we said it," but that they now did not wish any cliaoge in the con stitution of the country. The hon. and learned member went on tour that though Catholic emancipation had been granted, because it had been demanded by the people, there was no parallel between it and tht question of Reform—there did not exist the same cause for the latter. (Hear, hear, bear.) Under the new system he should be glad to know how the East and West India interests, as well as those of the Colonies, were to be properly represented. The close boroughs. 0 they had been called, were attacked. Men of great talent had come to parliament by these very means. The hon. and learned Member then read at considerable length extracts front Hardy's Leo of Lord Charlanont, and said that Flood , Pitt, Grattan, and other Statesmen, had come to Parliament in consequence of representing close boroughs; and notwithstanding all their efforts in the cause of reform, they were rejected by the free boroughs ; but there was a great evil which characterized the present BilL namely, it was not a final mea sure.—(Hear.) He saw no anchorage, no mooring; it was only the first step to the abyss of a revolutionary hell !—(tries of " Oh !" are cheers frmn the opposition.) They would still find "in deep a lower deep" still open to receive tbern. If the Legislature were to abolish trial byiury. ' were to repeal the Habeas Corpus Act, and abolish the liberty of the Press ' all which it was competent to do—would be not call that revolutioosry was the murder less a murder because it was a suicide.—(Hear , bear.) If the house was determined to effect a radical change in the ' Constitution, let them approach the subject with caut i o n—let them recollect it t'd grown with them like their language, and like the language it was a native. One was sufficient for the worship of Gon, and the imagination of man—the other had conducted you to happiness and glory ; it was sufficient to satisfy the love of liberty in a Somers, and could not receive addition from the generous nos. I