Star. — London, England, 1822-07-19 00:00:00

recommended where each had a share in every part of the materials, this use of them, in eontert, could not be considered a loan. He would strongly re commend it to Country Gentlemen to give brewing utensils to the poor. They could not give their bounty a better direction. There were directiOns published for brewing, which would enable all classes to brew for themselves. These were to be had in a three penny or sixpenny pamphlet, in Mr. Cobbett's Ser mon on the subject of brewing, or against drunken. ness, where the directions given were so plain that he who runs may read. Though he consented to with draw this Bill for the present, he was confident that ultimately it would pass, and confident he was that it would prove a most important boon, contributing alike to the wealth, health, and morals of the people. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ad dressed a few observations to the House, in eiplana lion of the course which Government had taken with reference to the subject in debate. An. inquiry had been going on for several years, under the authority of the Treasury, in order to discover whether means could not be found for supplying the labouring pub lic with beer of superior quality, subject to a duty, regulated according to its comparative strength.— Without stating•what had been the result of the in quiry, he should say that there was every reason to believe so much of the plan would be carried into effect as would enable the labourer to get superior beer, subject to an intermediate duty. With respect to the merits of the present licensing system, he de sired at this time to give no opinion. So far as re lated to the sale of beer in public-houses, he thought the present law fit to be retained ; but with respect' to the sale of beer in other houses, he thought this -.night be allowed, without materially affecting the great property vested in public-houses. A..heavy duty fell on the public brewer, which, as the Hon. and 1 Learned Gentleman had said, did not attach to the private brewer. He, however, thought the want of skill on the part of the latter, and the absence of those advantages growing out of the employment of a large capital gave him no great superiority over the public brewer. But be that as it might, the ad-1 vantages which had been mentioned were secured by law to those who brewed for themselves, and with that law he had no disposition to interfere. Mr. Alderman BRIDGES spoke against the plan for legalising the sale of beer from private houses. The Bill was then withdrawn. HALF-PAY OFFICERS. Mr. F. BUXTON wished to ask of an Hon. Officer whom he saw in his place, what arrangement had been made with respect to Half-pay Officers who were insane, as to their pay and allowances? Sir G. COCKBURN said, in consequence of the subject being brought under the consideration of the Chancellor of the Exchequer in the early part of the present Session, the Government had directed their attention to it and had come to a decision, that any Officer suffering under that affliction from service, should be placed on the same footing as one who had lost a limb. It was to be understood that, if such indisposition should be in consequence of a natural defect, or of imprudent conduct, the same indulgence was not to be allowed. If the individual were kept by the Government, half of his pay would be stopped; but if he were maintained by his friends, they would receive the whole of his half-pay. Mr. BUXTON inquired if it would not be proper that all claims of this description should be forth with made, in order that they might be speedily decided upon ? Sir G. COCKBURN said, it would certainly be proper that this should be done. He begged to add, tie pension granted in the case supposed was only to continue while the individual remained ill. In the event of perfect recovery it would cease. CANADA TRADE AND GOVERNMENT. Mr. WILMOT having moved the Order of the should pass subsilentio. He was sorry to stand even thus lone between his Hon. Friend and the impatience of the Howe, to answes him, for which he had furnished am , le materials. Mr lIUSKISSON confessed that he was fully im pre •ed by the weight of the argument which the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down set out with, ith resi.ect to the lateness of the Session. He did not thi.-k the 18th of July the proper day for such a 11.:1 :nd as one friendly to the principle of the Bill, he really would beg leave to recommend to the I lon. and Learned Gentleman to withdraw his Bil , for the present, least by meeting with a negative it should come prejudiced to discussion at a future peti,i. But with regard to the arguments of the Hon. Grotieman who had just sat down, he seemed to argue that it had always been the policy of the law to countenance a monopoly of the article. He, however. had always considered licenses and such like, to instance the assize of bread, were instituted alone tor the benefit, and with a view to the com forts of the consumer—( Hear. hear). —And as to vested tights, and the ant'o,.4v of the Hon. Member with the case of the robiic c. s tahtor, it had nothing to do si ith the precut question. They stood upon differ:.tit grounds ahogeihert for, according to the Nlember's thou y of vested rights, it would be an invasion of wate-men's ri;lsts to build a bridge o:er the Rivet, or to work a steam vessel—(Hear, heap).-11c neatly thought t he lion. Gentleman had a little ex.ilgerated when he talked of 50,000 indi viduals being twined. They were there to legislate for the public good, which the notions of the Hon. Member about vested rights would go entirely to chcc k. Still less could he countenance the word con fiscation a : )plied by the Hon. Member to this The restraint with res ect to the sale of beer was is en for the purposes of morality ; but it had been L,.::v test to altm, ; ethe. a different purpose, approach. in; to something like monopoly. But that never mstny a title being set up to such a monopoly. 1;v t .lisadpearance of drunkenness, which any one wip Ai lived as long as he had, could not fail to have ob -erved, a Iv eat prolongation of life had ac crued to the humbler classes of people, with a great impro‘en,ent in their comforts. It was necessary, therefore, to look with caution at any change in the system s hish brought abo'it such advantages. He io(•ir ecommeaded the Hon. and Learned Gentle man not to press his 13i11 in its present crude state;' but to w ithdraw it and endeavour to ascertain, during the recess, whether or not this Bill would improve, the Revenue, and to what extent. He wished he would also estimate the extent of its operation upon' tie habits of the people, and also upon the property at present concerned in the trade. Mr. Alderman WOOD apologised to the House for troubling them upon this subject, as out of the 41.000 persons who would be affected by this Bill, 4,000 were his constituents. He wi-hed his Him. Friend would spew what benefit was to he derived from this mea-ure. The evils of it had been suffi ciently pointed out, for it certainly would be the cause of ruin to a great number. To illustrate the feeling of the trade at the proposition of his Hon. and Learned FL iend, he only put it to his own feel ings how he would feel, were it proposed to admit the inferior practitioners in the law to the practice of the Court s?— (A laugh).—He was sure the lion. and Learned Gentleman would not like that. lie knew that Solicitors had been allowed to practise as Conn-, s:•1 in Cornwall, and that gave great offence to the Gentlemen of the Long Robe. Ruin, he knew, would be brought upon many respectable widows and others, were this influx into the tiade permitted. Ile hoped, therefore, the House would let the pre sent system go on, from which every possible benefit was derived. He should not move that the Bill be read that day three months, because he believed it was the intention of his Hon. Friend to withdraw the Bill for the present Session. Day for taking into further consideration the Report o Mr. BROUGHAM said ke had felt himself bound, on the Canada Trade and Government, begged to vith reference to some previous measures, to push state to the House the provisions of the Bill which the Bill on to its present stage in this Session, or he he should now have the honour to introduce. The certainly should not have selected so late a period of Bill might be described under three heads. In the it. Ile was not, therefore, insensible to the weight of first place, it went to make an alteration in the Act the arguments for postponing it. The mass of in- of the 31st George the Third, for the Government of terest that it had created had made him desire to Canada. It then was intended to act as an auxiliary' hear the arguments against it, and now he was satis- to the measures introduced in the present Session by fled. Like the Hon. Alderman who itad just sat his Right Hon. Friend the President of the Board, of, down, he found the brewers standing up as Counsel Trade. And thirdly, it went to make an arrange- 1 pull- ment with recpect to the appropriation of the duties ' for the publicans, and no doubt if they had a can in the House he would stand up for his lords and levied in Canada ; and, in furtherance of this object, masters, the brewers. The disguise was easily seen it proposed to consolidate the Legislatures of Upper through—these Gentlemen meant themselves, when and Lower Canada. On the last of these he proposed they talked of others. In withdrawing the Bill, he to speak first, as the differences which had arisen be tween the two Colonies on the subject of the duties begged to suggest to the Chancellor of the Exchequer t the propriety of considering during the recess, the obe divided between them had placed them in a very placing of a middle duty between that of 2s. and 10s. anomalous situation, which loudly called for some One at 4a. or .ss. would enable brewers to furnish an rea.edial measure. He proceeded to describe the situation of these province) from the conquest of l article of small beer considerably better than that which seemed to meet with general reprobation.— Canada. They were governed by a Governor and Indeed, the small beer was diminishing so fast in Executive Council. The Criminal Law of England quality that it was absolutely in danger of becoming had been introduced in the first instance, but the old invisible— (A laugh.)—The people had the remedy Civil Law of the Colony had been retained. Some in their own hands, and if the brewers were deter- Ordinances, however, were enacted, which we r e a t mined to give up no part of their monopoly, he variance with that system, and the anomalous cha doubted not they would use it. The Magistrates r atter of the laws thus combined, made it necessary, m i g ht diminish the evil by licensing more houses— in the year 1774, to restore the Civil Code, such as (Hear, hear). —From that cheer be suspected that it had originally been, and to abrogate th e Ordi those interested in this question, and who were wise mantes, but at the same time the introductio n o f a in their generation, were of opinion that in this way Representative Body at a future period was contem no material change could be effected, as if a few plated. Under this system the Government w as car-' _ fled on to 1791, when the Act of the 31st of t h e l ate more houses were - licensed, it would be an easy mat ter for them to get the feasts of those houses into King respecting Canada was passed. It w as at t h at their possession. The evil, however, might be reme- period that the province, which h a d till t h en b een died by private brewing ; but few were aware how called Canada, was divided into two parts, in conse easy, and at how cheap a rate, they mig ht prov id e quence of refugees and American loyalists com i ng themselves with a wholesome beverage. -he private at that tune in great numbers to th a t part o f ,h brewers saved 3 0s. on the malt duty, the retail pro theis division was objected to by M r . F ox , who was province which was now called Upp er C ana d a . fit ; the duty on the publican's license, which alone T h is then in the Opposition ; and the wo un d s on w hi c h gave amorally to the revenue no less than 600,0001. and besides all these advantages , a more wholesome the Government of that day def en ded t h e A ct f or b e , e , ag e would lie obtatue.! than could now be pur- giving the Canadas their present Constitution were chased. The expense of brewing utensils did not these, that there were many per s on s r e s idi ng i n U pper exceed Irons 31. to 41. Ii a poor man could not pur- Canada who were English, and it was ext reme ly chase them, let him join with his neighbours. They i unjust that the population of that part of the colony who had Engli s h f ee li ngs , s h ou ld b e un d er a co d e must, however, take care of the Coort of Exchequer ! as they went on. They must not sell any portion of; of laws that was foreign to t hei r f ee li ngs an d h a bi ts . the bees they bt ea ed, but several joining to brew, .—from 1791 the two provinces had their respective and biewing in one of their houses, each under the judicial and le g i s l at i ve es t a bli s h ments . Th e on l y present law might take away his share. They might access to the sea enjoyed by the inhabitants of Upper blew in one anothei's houses in rotation. 'They must Canada, was through the port of Quebec. The con riot lend tlnar apparatus, but in the partnership he sequence was j they were considered entitled to a share pf the impost duties, and one eighth was as sessed as their share, that being supposed to be the proportion which the inhabitants of the Upper Province bore to those of the Lower—(Near, hear). This continued till 1797, when *system of etantina tion and appropriation by Custom-house Officers, was adopted, From 1797, oue-fifth of the duties had been allowed as the share to which the people of Upper Canada were entitled. This arrangement con tinued till 1817, when a new inquiry took place. It was then found impossible to make a satisfactory appropriation of the duties, and in consequence Up per Canada had been kept out of its fair share of them ever since. The Commission appointed to in quite into the subject had declared in their Report, that the present mode of taking the duties was likely to lead to a serious misunderstanding between the two provinces. This state of things naturally led the Government to consider whether a closer union be tween them could not be brought about. It would be for the House to consider whether this might not cause those differences, which were now referred to the mother country for decision, to terminate altoge ther. With a view to this, they would see it it might not be advisable to unite the two Legislatures, and if other inestimable advantages should seem likely thence to arise; and if, on general principles, inde pendent of local circumstances, this should seem de sirable, there was no Gentleman who would not allow that this subject was well worthy the consideration et Pal lament. He chewed, from the debates which took place at the time, and from the language of Mr. Pitt, that the Act of the 31st of the late King was not considered one that was never to be altered. On the contrary, it ivai distinctly stated that it would always be open to revision, and it had never been stated by Mr. Pitt that it would be necessary to ob tain the consent of the Legislatures of the two Pro vinces to any Change that might be contemplated.— The Parliament of Great Britain, it was maintained, would always have the power of making such changes as might seem necessary. By the alteration now pi 6 posed, the privileges at present enjoyed by Electors would be in norespect interfered with. A qualifica tion would be .named for those elected, which had been omitted before, but such a qualification would be fixed upon as would not have the effect of inter fering with that competition which ought to be ex cited. He described other enactments which the Bill was to contain, and stated that a drawback was in tended to be allowed on the re-exportation of runt, the produce of our West India Colonies. To settle the portion of the duties which each province should receive arbitration was to be resorted to, of which so many examples were afforded in this country.— The Bill prescribed, that persons should be selected who would be acted upon by no local motive whatever, and who would have no other object in view but to decide with justice and impartiality.— He had thus stated the general outline of the measure, the details of which would be better explained in the Committee. He recapitulated the circumstances under which he had recommended this Bill to the House. It might be expected that the measure would meet with some objection from the inhabitants of Upper Canada, on account of their Representatives having to travel to Lower Canada; but this, which was merely a personal inconvenience when balanced against the advantages which were to be derived from a law framed for the benefit of those ap-. pendages to the British Empire, the two Canadas, and consequently for that of England, would, lie was confident, be overruled. This Bill would affect no privileges hitherto enjoyed, and the union of the two Legislatures must lead to more extended discussions than would otherwise have taken I .lace, and thus con tribute to the progressive improvement of a Colony which had deserved so well at our hands, by the loyalty evinced during the late contest. The measure he believed to be founded on the soundest principles of wisdom. Every information on the subject hail been sought from those whose experience best quali fied them to afford it; and, convinced of the utility of the Bill he wished to introduce, be should now move for leave to bring it in, earnestly hoping that no opposition would be offered to its general pi inciple. Sir J. MACKINTOSH said, that with many parts of the Hon. Gentleman's speech he wholly concur red. The first Quebec Bill immediately preceded the American war, and the other was almost contempo raneous with the accession of this country to the coalition against France. Of the measure, as a whole, lie entirely approved. He only wished the incorpo ration of the two provinces to be delayed for six months, as he thought the 18th of July was much too late for such an important measure as altering the constitution of two great provinces. The same indulgence that had been shewn to the publicans, should surely be extended to the inhabitants of the two Canadas. He had no doubt of the power of the Parliament to unite the two provinces, but it was a power to be used with great caution and moderation. He would venture to affirm that colonies in the pre sent age, especially in North America, could only be governed by a loose rein. He did not object to the union of the two colonies and the mother country, as long as it could be harmonious and affectionate. This was the only instance of Parliament attempting to take away the Legislature of one colony to unite at with andther. This had not been done before, ex cept in the case of the State of Massachusetts. It had not been done in the case of any one little island of the West Indies, where an independent legislation' had existed. It was not done in America for 200 years ; from the time that British wisdom established our colonies in that country, until the time that the folly of Britain lost the United States colonies' for ever. There should have been enquiry into the wishes of the people of Canada before they exposed themselves to the chance of separating them front the mother country. Nothing could be so alarming to all our colonies as in the last meek of a Session of Parliament to propose, without enquiry, the abolition of two legislative bodies, and the substitution of a third in their stead. This must give alarm to the West India Islands, that instead of their separate Houses of Assembly the Parliament should appoint them a States General. For the people of our Cana dian colonies who were not represented in that House they should shew that they attended to their interests. They should shew that they were their representa tives, in consequence of their being unable, from natural causes, to have themselves represented in the British Parliament. He considered these colonies and lus as Members of one great, confederacy; the one being bound to the other as long as each perfn rme d its relative duty towards the other. For these se a . sons he should. take the sense on the general questior though he should move that the Bill should be vided into two Bills. Mr. ELLICE considered the period of the Se ss i, some objection to the Bill ; but this was not to ta, from any person in these colonies the benefits securer by the Slst of the late King; but the present Bill w; only intended to secure and extend to the general Habitants of these PrOvinces, the privileges tio w e , fined to a few/ The fact was, that about forty.f„ of the fifty Members of the Legislation of L, m . Canada were taken from, and returned by the l't population; so that there was a complete Fre. party against the interests of the inhabitants , f Upper Colony. How then, but by this Bill, c 0,,; conflicting interests of the two C iloiiies be :ect cited? He contended that this a east, e h a d b ( proposed with the full concurrence of every (.„, weight connected with these Col .nits, and would now irritate more than even the passin ; measure which might be in some de 2 ree nbjtxt, able. He wished the House to give every t the trade of these Colonies that it wo 11,1 giv2 to productions of Scotland and Ireland. Mr. CALCRAFT wished the House to pau.e fore it would legislate on so rash a •u•ji-cr as til.l depriving one of our Colonies of representative assembly. Would they apt iv so I T a measure to any of our Colonies without , t; Let them have the different parties i ti bat, and then let them see what n ere the 01,, „„,, each. There was everything loyal in these C.,1.„ 1 and nothing to warrant so harsh and oppressi,t measure as this. Why had the whole Ses,iott wasted without consulting those Provinces he! they set to work to deprive them of their ,r, at au gislatut es? but it was in vain to talk to such a 110, for to an eye accustomed to look at the might now have forty Members present to lc i for both the Canadas. As this was a matte. of and selions import, he conjured the House to wai further information. Mr. BRIGHT said it was clear, from the A the slst of the late King, that the Parliament the King had a right to interfere, and to settle ail mites between the two Colonic. But this well-discussed or contemplated measme. .fli,. no right to lei eal that Act, ii.ade c.i. r.:•iice of the people of Canada, and agiceable situation. But the fact Ica-, that this Bill •Va• L I ,assed without the knowledge of the 1 eolr,c ot . Canada ; for, if it was known to them that such was in contemplation, they would put it 0.1• power ever to pass it. They were a brave l e and would resist it: aid. if they di he should they were right. This was an Upper • a intenJel to give the majority in the llon.e of oly to the Representatives of the U t pet those of the Lo. er. P this Bill went on, he do' he should tin,' it his duty to move an the Committee, that zhe Canadians should •. by Counsel at the Bar. mi• was the rig! t Colony which was in dispute, hut in it were in% the rights of all our other Colonies. If Ow'. away the Legislative Assembly of Lower Ca why not take away that of Jamaica ? In the t sion of light and knowledge, the tune wo•i!it when these provinces would act for themse yes until then, it was their duty to pri..ett the tigi, both, instead of taking them away vvii:out int.; and at such a period of t::e Session, by pa wild and extravas2.ant Bill. Mr. GOULBORN wutild orposs. this BW, thought it fraught with the dan,ers and chalk , that had been anticipated. But he de.lied CiaL Bill at all interfered with a r...:tlre c re,ent rights of the People in Parliament of Canada. I. ished to consolidate the two Legislati. , us neighboui ing cuionies into one Le t ;istAtive 11,4 As the pie.eat Constitution of Canad:t rested oi Act of that House, it was competent to the Bi Parliament to alter or modify it as it thought pn This became necessai v, when one of these Legia Assemblies had interfered with the interests tit other colony in a way, he thought, calculated to duce something more than irritation. Mr. DENMAN opposed the Bill; first, on arc' of the advanced period of the Session, and th , norance of the House on the subject; and secoi he opposed it on the ground that no notice had given to the inhabitants of the colony ; and this he opposed the measure, as inexpedient and imin to be adopted. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY defended Bill. The pressure of business had prevented tihf being brought forward at an earlier period ; bu lateness of the Session was no reason for rejecting Bill, if it should appear to be necessary and expedi Mr. BERNAL oppo'ed the BilL The mere asserth Ministers that the measure was necessary, should not gado House. It ought to rest upon the petitions front the peopl Canada. ➢lr. T. W I LSON also opposed the measure, principally count of the late period of the Session at which it was bi forward.—The gallery was then cleared for a division. For the Bill - - 43 For the Amendment - - 14 Majority - - —e9 The Bill then,'after some oisseivatiow, went through a mittee.—Report to-morrow. The other Orders of the Day were disposed of, and the adjourned at Two o'Clock. MAJORITY AND MINORITY WHO 'S'OTND YON AND AGAINST liOING INTO • COMMITS CS CANADA DILL. MAJORITY. Antrobus, G. C. Ellice E. Phipps, Geller:11 Alexander, J. Forb es, C. Phillimorc, Dr. Bathurst, Rt. Ho. B. Grant, A. C. P.ittot, !Liu. B. Brogden, J. Hill, Rt. Hon. Sir(';. Robinson, Rt. II Bentinck, Lord F. 11u$Itisson, Rt. Heti. Solicitor (iener: Browne, lit. tin. 1). W. Somerset, Lord Binning, Lord Long, Rt. Hr.. Sir C. 'Villiers, Right Blair, J. Lush ingt cm e S. J. C. Willie, Colonel Lovable, L ori Vansitt art , Rt. Belfast, Earl of Londondtrry, Mar- Nicholas Clerk. Sir G. quiz of Wallace. lit. lb Calvert, John Lord Advocate Wood, Col. . , Cholnisley, Sir M. 31actionald, It. G. Wynn, Right Dilett, T. Martin, It. C. W. Dawson, G. R. Morland, Sir S. TI.1•I ton. Dawkins, J. Ellis, C. Osborne, Sir J. Oenlburn, IL Ommaney, Sir F. M.Wilinot, It. MINORITY. Barrett, S. M. Blonck, J. U. Road, Aldernia Bernal, Ralph Mackintosh, Sir J. Wilson, 'l'. Concannon, L. Marjoribanks, S. --- Cradock, S. Palmer, C. Fyscke 1F.1.f.Ei1% Denman, Thomas Price, 11. Blight, 11. Iltune, Joseph Smith, William Caicraft, Julia • 2 ed *a. • on, I UNDER di. 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