Star. — London, England, 1821-06-14 00:00:00

. • w s . ever been set up--(Heee; hear).—He hopettlie Hon. Mend's) who brought for, the claim would not petse' ere m pressing it upon. the House. Mr. IRVING said, that he could not think of aban doning a claim which he believed was founded upon the strictest justice. He complained of the irregular manner in which hicHonourable Friend had alluded to the subject. Mr. CALCRAFT dished to know when the Hon. Member rbe,tat to propose the grant? Mr. IRVING replied, on Friday next. Mr. HUME again called the attention of the House to the g rants to Mr. *Adam. It was very strange that a grant of £4OOO made to that individual in 1819, had not been reported to the House in 1820. lie the Right Hon. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) would give A distinct answer on this point, and also state when the Report of the Committee on the grant to the Duke of Clarence was to be brought up. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, Cm one of the grants had been made at the direction of the Treasury, and another at the recommendation of the General Post Office. With respect to the grant to the Duke of Clarence, he should forbear bringing up the Report to-day, and should wait till to-morrow, when he hoped his Noble Friend, the Marquis of Lon donderry, would be able to attend in his place. Mr. HUME, understanding that one of the Com missioners of Excise in Scotland had recently died, wished to know if it was intended to fill up the vacancy, or to confine the duties to the present number ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could not bold out to the House the prospect of any reduc tion in the number of the Commissioners of Excise in Scotland. Lord MILTON heard that it was not intended to press the Spoiled Stamps Bill during the present Ses sion. He certainly thought that in the case of spoiled Stamps a remedy was very necessary, and he should now ask the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, if he intended to proceed with the Bill this Session, and if he did not, why abandon the remedial part, even though he should give up the new duties which the measure must impose? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that no inconvenience could arise from not proceeding with the niea,ure during the present Session. Mr. BARING said, that the grain to Mr. M.Adam was a gross misapplication of the public money, as it had not been made in the regular manner. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ion tended it had been made under the proper sanction. Mr. HUME said, it had not been paid from the fund appropriated to Civil Contingencies, but from the Post Office Revenue. He thought the course pur sued was most irregular. The Motion was then agreed to, and the House went into the Committee. ARD'UTHNOT then moved the following Votes, which were agreed to without discussion : £4OOO, for defraying the arrears of expense of Public Buildings for the year 1821 ' • and £26,500, for de- 1 fraying the extra expense of his Majesty's Household. The next Resolution was for granting the sum of £75,000, under a mixed Commission, appointed to make awards of Portuguese vessels irregularly cap tured for trading in slaves within certain limits. Mr. WARRE said, that from the mass of informa tion which had come before him, it appeared we were rather retrograding than advancing in the abo lition of this odious traffic. It was now carried on with the greatest activity, in spire of the solemn pro mises of the Sovereigns of Europe. Mr. ARBUTHNOT was not prepared to go into the general merits of the question in the absence of his Noble Friend (the Marquis of Londonderry); but he could assure the Honourable Member that his Ma jesty's Government were most anxious to give all pos sible effect to the measures adopted for putting an end to the trade in slaves.—The grant was agreed to. Mr. ARBUTHNOT next proposed a vote of £18,700, to defray the salaries and incidental ex penses of a Commission under the Treaties existing between Spain and Portugal for abolishing the traffic in slaves. Mr. BERNAL observed, that the trade was now carried on in a more horrible manner than at any former period. In the Courts of Arbitration estab lished at Cuba, Surinam, Havannah, and other places, not a single case had been decided with effect. Not withstanding the £400,000 paid to Spain for consent ing to relinquish the trade in human flesh, that Power still continued to carry it on with the greatest acti vity. No reliance was to be placed on the Govern ment of the Netherlands, nor had that Power met us in any instance with the right hand of fellowship— (Hear, hear). —Spain and Portugal were calling in slaves to their colonies from all quarters. If it was proposed to continue the Commission on a firm basis, the system must he altered ; and if it was not altered, he should certainly oppose any grant towards sup porting it. Mr. WARRE, in the course of some observations, said that Sir George Collier had complained of the impunity with which atrocities had been committed at Sierra Leone, in consequence of the neglect of our Officers, and the connivance of the Dutch Authori ties acting under the tommission. Sir GEORGE COCKBURN vindicated the con duct of the British Officers ; and said that Spanish and Portuguese ships engaged in the slave trade con trary to the treaties, frequently escaped by hoisting American or French flags, over which our cruizers could exercise no controul. However, they were fre quently seized at the personal risk of the Officers, who evinced the greatest zeal in the service. Sir ISAAC COFFIN declared it to be his opinion, after having seen the Report of Sir George Collier, that nothing but a declaration. of war against every rower in Europe could put an end to the slave trade. All the Navy of England would not be sufficient for Sir JOHN NEWPORT took occasion to call the attention of the Committee to prosecutions in which the parties instituting them were not responsible, like the Law Officers of the Crown. The Constitutional Association was an assembly unknown fo the Consti tution. There was a responsibility attached to the office of the Attorney-General—none whatever to this Constitutional Society, and under these circumstan ces he could not but consider the Society illegal. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that he trusted there would be no occasion for any considerable accession to the law expenses this year. - Sir J. NEWPORT thought the diminution of ex-, !Anse would be very little acceptable to the Public,' sf it were caused by the greater industry of the Con stitutional Society. Mr. WARRE conceived it was a very suspicious circumstance that this Association had grown up about the time of the origination of a certain Bill of Pains and Penalties. . After a few words from Mr. HUME and Mr. An surumor, upon the propriety of the retired allow- I ance to Mr. Litchfield, the late Solicitor of the Trea-' sury, the vote was agreed to. Mr. ARBUTHNOT next proposed a vote for the sum of £22,800 for Salaries and Allowances to the Officers of the Houses of Lords and Commons. Mr. HUME expressed a wish that the Estimates in this department had been given more in detail. Mr. ARBUTHNOT said, that if he should have the honour of proposing these Estimates next year, he could assure the Hon. Member that every item should be set forth.—The vote was agreed to. A sum not exceeding £90,502, was granted to de fray the expenses of employing Convicts at home. A sum not exceeding £3OO was granted to defray the expense of the National Vaccine Establishment. Mr. ARBUTHNOT proposed a sum not exceeding £lOO,OOO, to meet the bills drawn, or to be drawn from New South Wales. Some conversation arose on the propriety of having the vote for the Police Offices included under the Civil Contingencies. Mr. ARBUTHNOT explained, and said that in future it should be included in these Estimates.---The vote was agreed to. Mr. ARBUTHNOT proposed a vote of £69,415, to make good the deficiencies of the fee funds in the departments of the Treasury, the three Secretaries of State, and the Privy Council. Mr. HUME complained of the want of detail in the Estimates for this department, and of the increase of the expense in the Treasury. He stated particu larly that the Assistant Secretary, Mr. Harrison, had a salary of 1-1,800 for examining accounts alone. He conceived that this was too large a salary for an offi cer in that situation. Also the establishment of the three Secretaries of State, which in 1796 cost only £25,458, was now increased to £58,153. There was further an increase in the allowances to messengers, and other persons of that description. He found in these Estimates £l,OOO to Mr. Robert Ward, on ac count of his pension, so that with I.is salary as•Cleak of the Ordnance, and with this pension to make up 'the deficiency between his present and his former of fice of Secretary to the Treasury, he had £2,143, which was £143 more than he had any title to. He hoped that at least the £143 would be reduced. He stated that he had been informed that the Foreign Office allowed their expenses to some officers Who wished to return home from foreign stations, and who, in order to obtain those expenses, were charged with , dispatches which were not of an urgent nature. He hoped that this was not the case. Mr. ARBUTHNOT was prepared to say there would be no objection to give the Estimates is future the purpose. Mr. BERNAL thought that our efforts could never succeed unless the right of search were conceded by America and France. Mr. SMYTIIE said it was quite clear that no want of zeal could be imputed to the Officers em ployed in preventing the Slave Trade. He wished to see the disgraceful traffic put down by all fair and legitimate means; but he should not certainly advo cate any that were of a belligerent character. In time of war we had the tight of search, but this being given up when peace came, a special treaty was ne (Assay, and a Commission was appointed in conse- quence. It was very true thit little had yet been lin detail. With respect to the Secretary rd . the Treat. done; but why ? because of the evasions of Portugal' sury, it would be found that the salary was 13,800 and France, those Powers from which we had a right independently of all allowances. As to himself (Mr. to expect a rompt acquiescence. Arbuthnot) he saved £2,000 a-year to the Public by Mr. WAR RE, with the view of shewing how little not retiring on a pension to that amount, to which, by disposed the Portuguese were. to adhere to the stipu- having been employed in the diplomatic li n e , he was lotions of the Treaty , adverted to the St. Salvador i entitled. He had preferred being employed in the case, from which it appeared that his Majesty's ship , public service to retirement on a pension at his time Myrmidon, in approaching a slave ship, found that iof life. He stated that the business of the Treasury 1 she had let her boat clowfi, and put the slaves let° it. had very muc h increased. The number of letters 1 When the cause came before th e Court of Arbitra- w hich he himself had to answer every day was e nor- 1 ti6n, the defence was , tha t the slaves had not been mous. The number of registered papers was not less i taken on board the ship, and the Portuguese arbitra- than 18,000 a-year now, although in a time of peace. Itot decided in favour of the delinquents, ordering, at Sir I. COFFIN gave his testimony to the merits of the same time, that the ship should be set free. Mr. Harrison, Mr. ARBUTHNO 1 must again say, that in the Sir E. KNATCHBULL wished to know to what absence of his Noble Friend he was n ot p re p ared to extent the Government were disposed to reduce the pat large into the subject. It was, however, his salaries of public officers, in consequence of the rise intention to move for leave to bring in a Bill to give in the value of money ? He understood that, in the more effect to the system of granting bounties, which revision which was now carrying on by Government, at present could only be awarded under our own Abo- an intention to that effect had been entertained. lit Act. His Noble Friend (the Marquis of Lon- The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said dotiderry) had expressed his disapprobation of the that he was not now prepared to state the scale of re conduct of the Portuguese Arbitrator in the case ad- duction which his Majesty's Government were dis verted to, and complained of it to the Government posed to adopt ;but, to whatever extent it might reach, of the Brazils. it would not be carried into effect without due notice Mr. BUXTON hoped, that in future bounties having been previously given to the public officers would be given to all parties who took an active part likely to be• affected by it.—The vote was agreed to. in putting down the Slave Trade. Upon Mr. ARBUTHNOT proposing a vote, not Mr. HUME contended that no advantage had re- exceeding the sum of £25,000, for foreign and other suited from the course hitherto pursued. Not less secret service money, - • than £4,000 or £5.000 a-year was paid to persons Mr. HUME asked, whether the large sum voted at Surinam for doing nothing ; and in the course of a last year for this purpose had been already expended? few years they would receive pensions for life. It was Mr. ARBUTHNOT said, that this vote had been too much to suppose that England alone could put prepared three or four months ago, and that then a down the Slave Trade, unless France , un g rateful sum of about £20,000 had remained in hand. France, and America, co-operated with her. Mr. HUME said, that he understood a consider- After a few words from Sir G. COCKBURN, the aisle part of the secret service money had been ex vote was agreed to. pended in England, in procuring information in a A vote of £B,OOO, for defraying the expense of way that was extremely objectionable. He could Prosecutions relating to the Coin of the Kingdom was onl y sa y , that if any part of this secret service money next agreed to. went to the Secretary of State for the Home Depart- Mr. ARBUTHNOT then moved, that a sum not ment, he would object to the placing a single shilling exceeding £25,000 be granted for defraying the ex- at his disposal. pense of Law Charges. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER as- Mr. HUME said he should be glad to know what sured the Hon. Member, that not so much as a single those charges were? shilling of this money was at the disposal of the Home Mr. ARBUTHNOT, in reply, detailed the various Department.—The vote was agreed to. items, and, among others, one of £4,000, a sum still Mr. ARBUTHNOT proposed a vote, not exceed owing for the prosecution of Mr. Hone and other ing £25,000, to meet the extraordinary expenses of persons. In the course of the last year, there had the sold coinage for the year 1821. been thirty-one State prosecutions, including those Sir .1. NEWPORT asked if it was the intention of of Mr. Hunt and Sir Francis Burdett. his Majesty's Government to resume, at any time, Mr. WARRE complained of the number of Conn- the coinage of guineas? sel employed in Exchequer cases, as being too large. Mr. W. POLE answered, that the Officers of his The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, Majesty's Mint were at present authorized only to that in Treasury cases the number was not greater coin sovereigns and half-sovereigns; and he believed than was necessary. In Excise cases, it was proposed he might state, that his Majesty's Government did to employ one, instead of two Counsel, as hitherto, not intend ever to resume the coinage of guineas.— and the measure was now under consideration. The vote was agreed to. Mr. ARBUTHNOT, in proposing a vote, not ex. ceeding £21,000, for the expenses of printing Acts of Parliament for both Houses of Parliament, and for Justices of Peace throughout the kingdom, said, he was aware that objections were felt to the amount of the expenses of printing ; but he could state, that his Majesty's Government were disposed to agree in the appointment of a Committee to examine into the subject—(Hear, hear). Mr. HUME said, that there was no department more open to reduction than this. He was convinced, that in the Stationery a reduction of expense might be made to the amount of fifty per cent.—and that the printing might be carried on for at least half its present amount. As an instance, he stated that the 58th volume of the Journals of the House of Com mons was printed at an expense to the Public' of £3946 ; whereas, if it had been printed by any of the London trade establishments, after allowing the usual profits, it would have cost no more than £2550. Ile had seen a plan proposed for printing all the Govern- 1 ment Papers; by which, if carried into effect, the same volume might have been printed for £l2OO, or, at the utmost, at £l5OO. Mr. ARBUTHNOT could only repeat the inten dons which Government entertained on this subject. Sir JOHN NEWPORT said a few words with re spect to the patent which was granted to an indivi dual in Dublin, for supplying the Government with Stationery, and contended that it was one which the Crown was competent to resume at pleasure. Mr. GRANT said that the opinions of the Law Officers of the Crown in Ireland, were in favour of the validity of the patent. At the same time he quite agreed that the best way to effect the cheapest sup- Ito the was to leave it o pen togene rall3 Government, competition. Sir JOHN NEWPORT said that two eminent lawyers in Ireland, and the late Attorney-General of England, had expressed opinions opposed to those to which the Right Hon. Gentleman alluded, and under these circumstances he hoped that Government would take some mode of having the question settled. Mr. ARBUTHNOT hoped the Right Hon. Baro net would consider it as a good earnest of the inten tions of Government, that a Commission was about to be appointed, which would be authorised to look into all the abuses in Ireland. The vote was agreed to. A vote not exceeding £BOOO was agreed to for the American Loyalists ; £3360 for Criminal Lunatics ; and £5OOO for the Refuge for the Destitute. Mr. ARBUTHNOT proposed a vote of £53,567 to defray the expenses of the Public Office in Bow street ; and of the Horse and Foot Patrol attached to that Establishment. After a few words from Mr. Ccive and Mr. Bro w., the Resolution was agreed to. The following sums were then voted : £23,000 to defray the expenses of the Nlillbank Penitentiary. £4456 for the repairs of Henry the Seventh's Chapel. £15,000 fur the expenses of the African Company. £V2,444 for the Civil Establishment of Sierra Leone. In consequence of a question put by Mr. BERNAL, Mr. GOULBURN explained, that the increased amount of the grant for this Island arose out of the necessity of providing better residences in the Island for those who were sent out of this country there. He enlarged upon the improvements which this Island had undergone, and anticipated much ad vantage from it to the trade of this country. The following sums were then voted : £17,081 for the Civil Establishment of New South Wales. £6,883 for that of Newfoundland. £5,590 for that of Prince Edward's Island. £6,575 fur that of the Province of New Brunswick. £14,967 for that of Nova Scotia. £11.107 for that of Upper Canada. £5.147 for that of the Island of Bahama. £ll,9*t for supplying the Charges that stay arise for this year in carrying into execution an Act for the intprovernent of Vfeit, suittster. £lOO,OOO for complcting the New-street from hiary.liA cco to Chariag-cross. £86,760 f.)r conveying Settlers to the Cape cf Good Hope. tEIO 000 to be applied to the me cf the Commis•lo .en f a , making Rna , .'s and erecting Bridges in dte Highlands of Scotism', £3,600 to the Commissioners appointed under the 4.0 of the late King, for making a Road in the Isle of Sky. The House then resumed, and the Report was or. dered to be brought up to-morrow. BANK OF IREL ANi/....--11011A111 CATHOLIC On the question that the House do resolve i tv w into a Committee on the Bank of Ireland Bill, Sir J. NEWPORT said, he had a clause to p ro . pose, to be added to this Bill, the object of whi c h would be to legalize the admission of Roman Catho lics to seats as Governors, I)eputy Governors, Dirr. tors, &c. of the Bank of Ireland. He stated, th at t h e Act of 1793 was considered by some to qualify pe r . sons of this description to hold the above office s; but, as the point was disputed, he hoped there would be no objection to have it clearly fired. Tl.e CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER coo. sidered the clause unnecessary, because, after read. in g the Act 0f.1793, and consulting with those front whom a sound opinion was to be expected, he was ti opinion, that a Roman Catholic subject in Ireland wa s as admissible as any Protestant to the highest 4 03 in the Bank, after being regularly elected, and after taking the oaths prescribed by the Act of 1792. Sir J. NEWPORT conceived, that there could he then no objection to a clause declaring this to be th e law, since it was a subject upon which much am. ence of opinion had arisen. The CHANCELLOR -th . the EXCHEQUER did not think such a clause ought to be attached to a NI which was a measure between the Bank and the Public. Mr. GRENFELL saw no rational objection to the clause, and hoped that the Hon. Baronet would press his motion. Sir JOHN NEWPORT then moved that it be as instruction to the Committee to insert a clause in the Bill to the effect stated above. The House then divided— Ayes Noe, - - - 13 - - 35 Majority against the clause - —23 The House then resolved itself into a Commes e on the said Bill, and the report was ordered to be brought up on Friday nest. PACKET VESSELS' BILL. Mr. LUSIIINGTON moved the second reading of this Bill. Mr. BRIGHT stated his objection to the whaled the Bill, its principle and details. He contended the it would operate as an unjust restraint on the tiaderf the country, whilst it would add little or nothngto the Revenue. He concluded by moving that then be read the second time that day six months. Mr. LUSHINGTON observed, that when this 83 was introduced it was stated that it was a tneaso:e of regulation and not of Revenue. The object of it was to remedy the inconvenience which Ctpuins of packet vessels suffered from being unable to put liquor on board, and dispose of it to the passengers. The intention of the Act was confined to vessels fa passengers only. Sir J. NEWPORT opposed the Bill, as did also Mr. BERNAL. Sir I. COFFIN said that this Bill would apply very properly to a new order of navigators that had arisen in this country—namely, steam-boat naviga tors ; but he considered that it would prove exceed ingly oppressive to the coasting traders. He would not object to such a Bill with respect to steam packets, but could not consent to its application to othervessels. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said there would be no objection to introduce a clause the Committee, confining the operation of the Billto passage-boats. Mr. SYKES objected to the Bill under any limits. Lion or restriction that could be given to it. Tot was no necessity for such a Bill. Who were caw plaining ? What mischief was to be remedied? The complaints of a few publicans were not a sufficing reason for laying a heavy tax on the shipping cf the country, and through the most odious means—va. the Excise. At Hull there were no fewer than packets employed on mai ket days, carrying pois sions with persons to take care of them. Was it * be said that for each of those packets the tax bee proposed was to be paid ? The Humber was blown to be wide at that place; the passage was often stormy and tedious, and provisions were therefore necessary. This was altogether as vexatious an instance of petty legislation as he had ever known—(Hear, hear). Mr. T. WILSON would oppose any measure whirl would place the Masters of vessels under the inqii tion of Excise officers. If the object of the Bill vs to protect Masters of vessels, that protection would be best afforded by empowering them to take ol licenses at five shillings each, which would prowl them against prosecution. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER lad no objection to give the Masters of all vessels, exalt those of packet-boats, the option of taking out lin/ at five shillings. Mr. FORBES considered the measure in its pip sent form to be most objectionable. He would me% that instead of £lO, the sum of tae peace be alai tuted, as the amount to be paid for the license. 'file House then divided, and the numbers avre'" For the Amendment - . 14 Against it sf Majority The Bill was then read a second time; and r House, having gone through the other Orders du* Day, adjourned at Half-past Ten o'Clock. BUSINESS FOR TO-MORROW. ORDIRS or THE DAY.—Navigation Acts; Conunitue tb/* upon—Assessed Taxes Composition Bill; Committee- 4 er: Inquiry (Ireland) Bill; Committee—Audit of Aeceoli second reading—Coen Average Bill; Comndetee—Fsta Bill ; second reading. Nome or Moramt.—Mr. Alderman Wood, Inclub7,... m ilb" to Mr. Pennant's Lease or License for opening Slate *m — on Llanlechyd Common. MONDAY, JUNE 18. 0 zzzzz or TIM DAY.—Cinque Ports &Wit mittee—Salvage Act Amendment Bill ; Committe, Justice (Ireland) Ninth Report of Commbsioners; thereupon. TUESDAY, JUNE 19. Nonces OF Morsons.—Me. s m i t h ( o f D u ets), Copf dt patch from Mr. Gordon, referred to in Papers ____, J rcli ti" D r i Austrian Loan—Mr. Hume. Address concerning Proanw• citifies; Amount of Public Expenditure; Reducti on of rirg* WEDNESDAY, JUNE 2 0 . Nation or AforioNs.—Mr.Wilberforce, Motloo ori do. 0 1 : 1 1 of the Pavers laid before the House concerning the Aboirl te the Slave Trade—Mr. Fowell Buxton, Motion colecial 4 ImMulation of Widove in Intlia.