Star. — London, England, 1821-03-23 00:00:00

PARLIAMNTARY PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF LORDS, MARCH 2. 4 ?.. 'A Messenger front the Cominegsbrought up the evidence taken at the bat of that House in support of the Grampound Disfran chisement NlL—Ordered to be laid on the table. Ma. Alusisi:litill i ewasi the-MarinrAlntiny Bill, ware commit • ted aoa r'epoittd. • The Earl of VERULAM presented a Petition from the Parksh.of.St. Mary, Bedeliffo, Bristol, against any concession to the Cationlics.—Ordeted to belaid 'on the table. The King's With Regulation Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed. The Husbandry Horse Tax Repeal Bill was read a second time.—Adjourned. • HOUSE OF COMMONS. The (louse went into a Committee on the Salvage Acts. A Resolution was agreed to, and leave given to bring in a Bill to amend the said Acts. . 4 111 r. CANNING presented a Petition, praying a grant of Iktlonry for erecting a Bridge over Conway Ferry. Mr. G it)ugu.moved fora Return of the Prices of Gold and Silver weAly, since the 9th of April last. Mr. 11011110 USE gave notice of a motion for Thursday rest, for the Repeal of the Foreign Enlistment kill. Mr. J. P. GRANT applied for leave to discontinue his at tendance on the Scotch Burgh Committee.—Leave given. COAST BLOCKADE. Mr. CURTEIS moved for a Return of all In quests taken by Coroners on the bodies of persont who have lost their lives inconsequence of the enforce ment of the Coast Blockade and Preventive System. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER trusted the lionourstble Member would withdraw this motion for the present, as.it might tend to pre judice certain individuals now awaiting their trial on this subject, and' respecting whom judicial inquiry was going on elsewhere. Mr. WARRE feared if the House was to delay in vestigation till no judicial inquiry was going on, it would delay for a time Without limit ; for whilst this system was persevered in judicial inquiry would never tease to find objects calling for its attention. The Honourable Member strongly reprobated the Pre ventive System, which, he said, had been productive of nothing but violence and bloodshed. The temp tations t smuggling were too great to be rests aired by the existing system. To convince the house of this statement, it was only necessary to state one fact—a labourer must work hard a whole day for 2s. whilst by going out for one night on a smuggling expedition, he would obtain 14s. or 165. Mr. LOCKHART agreed with the Chancellor of the Exchequer on the propriety of this motion being withdrawn for the present. if the motion was de layed till after the Assizes, the objection to discus sion now urged by his Right lion. Friend would not exist, as judicial inquiry would then have terminated. Ile condemned the crime of smuggling, as one most injurious to the morals of the people, and danger cus to the State. Mr. HURST censured the Preventive System in strong terms, and was anxious for inquiry. He was persuaded, that instead of the Coast Blockade System operating to prevent smuggling, that crime had in creased greatly since the adoption of that System. Mr. LUSHINGTON defended the System, which had operated most effectually to prevent smug ling. Ile trusted the motion would be withdrawn for the present, as he (Mr. Curteis) might be fully persuaded that the Executive Government was as anxious to prevent acts of violence as the Honourable Gentle. man, or any of his friends could be. Mr. BENNETT condemned the Preventive Sys tem, as only tending to endanger the shedding of blood. He was convinced it would never operate to prevent smuggling. lie believed the source of the evil to be the high duties at present existing. Those duties reduced, the evil would cea,e to exist. He was persuaded, however, that the Right Hon. Gentleman and his 1: iends would never consent to any reduction of taxation, till forced to it by a vote of the House. Mr. CURTEIS, in reply, said he had no objection to susi;eild this motion for a time, and let what he had said be taken as a isoziee only. The motion was then withdrass n for the present. STATIONERY OP ICE. Mr. 11UME moved for a Return of the Establish ment of the Stationery Office, the names of the indi viduals connected willrit, their salaries, &c. for the years 1816, 1817, 1818, 1819, and 1820.—Ordered. IRISH NEWSPAPERS. Mr. BENNETT moved for a Return of the Sums paid from 1818 to 1820,- for the insertion of ProCla niatiorts,in the Duilin Correspondent, Patriot, and Hibernian Journal.—Ordered. STAMPS. Mr. HUME said, he now rose to call the attention of the House to the offices of the Receiver-General of Assessed Taxes, and to those of distributors of Stamps. He was anxious to state to the House the view he had taken of this subject as to two points ; first, as regarded economy in the collection of the Revenue ; and, secondly, as related to the pa tronage and influence they conferred, which patron age was very extensive, and tended to give influence in the House. The number of Receivers-General in England and Scotland was sixty-five, and the Dis tributors of Stamps were ninety-five. The sum they received was £43,000 last year as salaries, and the greater number of them performed their duty by deputy. They were principally appointed by Mem bers of Parliament, and thus Ministers obtained par liamentary influence. The Report of the Finance Committee had recommended that in every case vhere the duties deny office could be performed by deputy, the situation of principal should be abolished. Now he was prepared to contend that, upon this prin elide, in the present state of public distress, the office of Receiver-General might and ought to be abo lished. In Ireland, it appeared there were no Re ceivers-General, and in Scotland only ones and, in England, a great majority of them•did their duty by deputy; and he was certa►n, if Government were de sirous of doing so, they might find individuals ready to perform these duties for nothing, and ready to give most unexceptionable security. Under the pre-' sent system, notwithstanding all the expense we were at, he was prepared to drew that the Public had sustained very considerable losses on this head . of public se► vice. As to the profits which these Re ceivers-General had, he would advert, first, to the balances left in their hands, which, :at the lowest, could not be estimated at less than £360,000, and Gentlemen were m ell aware of the profits which, in three months, might be made on this sum. In ad dition to this, they had their poundage, amounting to a very considerable sum. He might be told is, was neccss;ul to make some allowance, as the Pub- , lic required good, security of them. He was the last' to deny that the Public should have security, and what he Etimplained of was, that the security taken was not sufficient. By a Report now before the House, it appeared, that tiztween 1790 and 1820, ten Receivers-General beeame.defaulters, and for no less a sum than £360,000, of which, after all the se curities had been taken, £117,000 still remained due to the Public. This could only arise out of the sloveuly manner in which public balances were al h wea to remain in the hands of the Receivers. The Honourable Member then adverted to the case of Mr. Shaw, the Receiver of Surrey, who died in 1795, and was then found a defaulter. His securities were called on to pay deficiencies, and they did so, Sir G. Noel being one of them, to the amount of 1230,000, and the Government then said there were only £4,000 due. Yet since that time, in 1815, a notice was given to the securities that £40,000 was still due. The Honourable Member then adverted to the case of Mr. Heaton, the Receiver for Cheshire, and the proceedings against Sir J. Hill and Mr. K. Powell, his securities. The result here would have been utter ruin to those two Gentlemen, but for the conduct of the Treasury, who, he was happy to un derstand, had suspended proceedings. At the same time he could not but regret, as one of the evils of the system, the power which Government possessed •)f remitting fines in these cases it was an invidiotts, and, he really believed, a painful power to the Go vernment. These instances, he thought, would be sufficient to shew that the system did not work so well as be was told it did, when he mentioned the subject last year. He adverted to the system in the Excise, which, he said, did not admit of more than six weeks' collection, instead of three months to le main in hand; and lay this the Government wete gainers, and the temptation to_peculation was ren dered less ; but he was prepared to contend, that Receivers-General were altogether unnecessary, and might be done away. This would produce a coma. derable saving ; for, it should be recollected, that independent of the 3d. in the pound paid to the Collector, the Receiver had 2d. in the pound on the Land Tax, and I}J. on the Assessed Taxes, as well as an allowance to the District Clerk.— He would next advert to the Distributors of Stamps. In the last year -they received £67,000, and had a balance in hand in lomat y of £104,000, which was the smallest balance they ever could hold. This allowance gave to each Distributor above £lOOO a year, besides the intetest made of the balances in band. He said, by the Returns, on the average of four yea's, it appeared that a Mr. Cole, Distributor for Norfolk and Norwich, had received 123800 a year; Mr. Gray, for Yorkshire, £5OOO a year ; Mr. Osborn, for Wars. ick, 122000; and Mr. Staniforth, for Liver pool, £1328. Now h. was prepared to shew that Gentlemen of large fortune were ready to undertake the office for Liverpool for £BOO a year, and to give ample security. There was an individual in Aber deen receiving £l5OO a year; he knew a Gentleman who would undertake it for £3OO. He would pro vide the Right Hon.Gentliman with Distributors for Liverpool and Aberdeen at that rate, by way of be ginning to economize—(Laughter).—He thought the proper way would be for Government to receive ten ders from persons, containing the terms on which they were ready to undertake the office of Distributor of Stamps, and to give proper security. But there was another source of complaint, worse than any he had yet adverted to, and that was, that in addition to the immense sums thus paid, the Public were charged with additional pence whenever they applied for the Purchase of a stamp, by those who sold them —this was a tax of nearly seven and a half per cent. This, he contended, was taking money illegally out of the pockets of the Public. The Chancellor of the Exchequer took sufficient out legally, and ought not to permit any person to dip his hand in illegally. He was aware the Right lion. Gentleman was no sharer in these profits cf the Distributors—but he had the influence attached to the appointments ; and as in Scotland there was but one Receiver-General, who appqinted all other Receivers, and as he was depen dent on a Noble Lord who govetned Scotland for some years, that Noble Lord's influence was thus rendered unbounded. lie again recommended the' system of tender, as in the case of the Post Horse{ Duties. He was convinced, if this system were adopted, a saving of £lOO,OOO annually might be effected in England—but that would not answer the purpose of the Treasury. Ile could state an instance that it would not answer their purpose to reduce the. value of these offices so much, for it was sometimes necessary to divide the places ; in the case of Liver pool, he recollected, in Mr. Perceval's time, thew were two candidates for the office. General Tarleton was one. Both candidates were supporters of Go vernment ; to disoblige either was impossible, and therefore the place was divided into. two—(Hear, hear).—Here was a proof, then, that Ministers could not give up these places, for, at an expense of riot more than £137,000 to the Public annually, they ob tained 137 sinecure places. In the Resolution which he should propose, he should not point out any spe cific sum ; if the House should decide that the thing 'could be done at less expense, the Treasury were the properest persons to carry that object into effect ; if they were unwilling to undertake to do this, let them consent to the appointment of a Committee--(Hear, hear! from Lord Castlereagh). He was much obliged to the Noble Lord for this cheer; it-was more' than he expected—(Lord Castlereagh cheered again).—He would now conclude by putting his Resolutions.— The Honourable Member then put his Resolutions, which embraced the statement as to the number of Receivers-General, the sums they received, and the savings which might be effected in this part of our expenditure. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, as it was his intention to move, as an amendment to the Hon. Gentleman's motion, the appointment of a Committee to inquire into this subject, it would not be necessary for him now to enter at length into an answer to the Honourable Gentleman's speech, fur ther than to say, the present system was by no means so bad as to deserve the entire reprobation . which the Honourable Gentleman had bestowed upon it.— It would appear, from the Returns that would be laid before the Committee, that in the course of 30 years, and upon the sum of 12337,0!.. 1 0, the total loss had only been £13,000. Some of the Receivers -General no doubt performed their duty. by. Deputy ; but that was not the case of all. The. office of Re ..ceiver•General was one of great importance, and it was but fait. that those who held it should be quately remunerated. But should the plan of the Hon. Gentleman appear to the Committee to be more economical, he should have no objection to adopt it. Upon the subject of the Distributors of, Stamps, he was equally open to the opinion of the , l Committee ; but the real salary WAS not to be ascer tained from the apparent amount of the poundage. He could not admit, that the plan of the Hon. Mem ber, to put the office to auction, and to receive ten ders for it, would be attended with any. advantage ; on the contrary, he was of opinion. it would open a door to much imposition and fraud. When the Com mittee had made their Report, the House would be enabled to judge of the course fit to be adopted.— The Committee would abo then be enabled to de cide on the compensation to be made to the holders of the offices that it mit:ht be deemed advisable to abolish. The Right Honourable Gentleman con cluded by moving the appointment of a Select Com mittee, to take into consideration the offices of Re ceiver-General of the Land and Assessed Taxes, and of Distributor of Stamps, and to report upon the same to the House. Ile then proceeded to name the following, among other Gentlemen, us Members of the Committee:— Mr. Hume, Mr. W. Wynn, Mr. W. Stnith. Mr. Ma.o. donald, Sir T. Adand, Mr. Tremayne Mr. Wodehouse, and Mr. Gienfell. Sir.i. MACKINTOSH said, that the perseverance of his Honourable F, iend had obtained a concession that had been refused in the last Session of Parlia ment. His Honourable Friend had also produced a lecture from the Chancellor of the Exchequer, worthy of the Senate of Utopia. The Ilonce would also see the advantage of a majority against Ministers: That circumstance enabled them to'sce the utility of eco nomy, ss ithout the necessity of .giving up their offices. Even those who wished best to the con tinuance of the power of Ministers, might see that they could vote against them without any danger of their resigning their offices. The time had been that Ministers would not have held office when an im-, portent mea•ure had been negatived by a majority of the House. Without any insidious temark on the composition of the Committee, be thought the parties in the House might have been more equally represented in the Committee. Lord CASTLER EAG 11 said, that the I lonourable Gentleman seemed to be a' good deal intoxicated with the recent victory which his friends had ob tained. But the friends of the Honourable Gentle man, when they sat on that bench, that be (Lord Castlereagh) and his friends then occupied, had received two similar admonitions, in a full House, on the propos-d Tax on Pig Iron, and on Private Breweries; and though he gave up the Taxes, Lord Henry Petty still, from regard to his own character, had kept his place—(hear, hear).—He could assure the Honourable Gentleman, that the vote of last night had no influence on the resolution of his Hight Honourable Friend, which had been determined upon a fortnight ago. Lord A. HAMILTON observed, that the appoint. ment of a Committee was the approved mode of de feating a motion. He would advise his Honourable Friend not to wi:bdraw his motim; but after that bad been carried, he might then adopt the suggestion of a Committee—(hear, hear).— As to the compen sation to be made to the parties concerned, lae thought. the Public was the party chiefly concerned. Mr. S. WORTLEY was happy that the Com mittee had been acceded to by the Right Honourable Gentleman. Since he had sat in that House for the County of York, he had never nominated one to a situation in the Post-Office whom he had ever seen in his life. He could state to the nonce, that his Noble Friend had told him, ten days back, that he would consent to a Committee—(Hear, hear).—Had he (Mr. Wortley) been present list night, he would have voted in the minority, as he thought this was not the time to repeal taxes. Mr. LUSH INGTON was 6f - opinion that it would he difficult to substitute a better system► than that of Receivers-General; and that appeared from the state ment made by his Right Hon. Friend. He thought that the balances in the hands of the Receivers-Ge neral should be diminished, now in time of peace. Mr. HUME concurred in what had been said; had be been aware of the concession, he would not have made the motion. But of the Members of the Commiuee, eleven were in the habit of supporting Government, while only four, himself included, sat on that - side of the House—(hear, hear).—He hoped the Noble Lord would grant six mote from his (Mr. Hume's) side of the House. He should propose that Sir 11. Parnell, Mr. Monck, Mr. Calcratt, Mr. Pym, Mr. Maberley and Mr. Creevy, be added to the Committee. Mr. W. SMITH said, that in a Committee consti tuted as that proposed by 'the Chancellor of the Ex chequer, attendance on any question of pationage would be useless. He was surprised that the ques tion of patronage had been so lightly treated by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The. office of Re ceiver-General was one of great competition, and it a•as well known how they were appointed ; not that he blamed the present men more than their prede cessors. When Ministers were'about to do good, he did not think it fair to taunt them as to their motives; but he must think the Committee should be differ ently composed. • Mr. HUME would move an amended list, and the names should be— Sir H. Parnell, Mr. It. Smith, Mr. Chetwynde, Mr. Whit more, Mr. Nlaberley, and Mr. C.: Mr. It. :MARTIN thought the list matted by the Chancellor of the Exchequer was perfectly fair.— The present Ministers had done more in the way of reduction of offices, in Ireland, than had been done by Mr. Fox when in power. The Right lion. Baronet (Sir J. Newport) had made two offices where there was but one before. Sir R. FERGUSON rose to order. What bad been done by Mr. Fox had no connection with the subject before the House. Mr. R. MARTIN thought the interruption given very singular, from a friend and admirer of Mr. Fox. Sir J. NEWPORT thought it not fair to attack a man who had taken no share in the debate, in the man::er that had been done by the ilon. Gentleman. -In the subdivision of offices, the lion. Gentleman was one of the first claimants; and, by a letter he had . received from the perscat so recommended by hiai, 4 lie was told the MAI. Gentleman had .applied afterwards for his removal. He had 'recommended the suppression or regulation cf forty aces, creuted two or three deep, for services done at the tim e of the Union ; one of dihich was held by a Rev. Divine at the present day. No man had been more injured, by the acceptance of office than he had been. Th e rate of collecting the taxes which, in his time, h ad been nine per cent. had in some cases iisen to fift een, and in others to twenty-seven per cent. Mr. R. MARTIN disclaimed any invidious attack on the Right Hon. Baronet. Mr. C. LONG observed, that in the office of Re. ceiver-General it would be improper to have the duty done by deputy. In the first list was it meantlo represent Mr. Bankes as an enemy to Reform, or Mr. Tierney as one of the most independent Membery o f that House? There was no foundation fortheretnarki that there was eleven on one side, and only fo ur od the otlier. He should move that the following nam e' be placed on the Committee, viz. Sir 11. Parnell, Mr. Chetwyncie, Mr. X. Calvert. w. Whitmore, Mr. It. Smith, and Lord Binning. Mr. HUME expressed himself satisfied with thi names pro poted. • The motion of Mr. }lmre was then ittgatited, and the amendment of the ( lIANCELLOR ot the EXClit.' QUER, fora Selmt Committee, was carried. The following, among other names, were then read as Members of the Coinmiztee Mr. flume, Sir IL Parnell, Mr. W. Smith, Mr. R. Smith s Mr. Grenfell, Mr. C. Long, Mr. W. Courteray, Mr.W.Whit. more, Mr. W, Wynne, 51r. Bathes, and the SuliciturAieneral. 111tiCELLANEOUS. The House went into Committee on the Charitable Establish. mints Bill, whets the Report was received, and (mitred to b e taken into further consideration on dloudsy. The Beer Dutie.' Bill was read a secood time, and committed for to•nusrrow. Thu Bankrupt Effects (Ireland) ra, and the Witchcraft (Ireland) Ilill, severally went through Committees. Iltp ofis to-111011 i .W. The other Orders were then disposed of, and at Nine o'ckck the liuube adjourned. THE KING'S DRAWING-ROOM. His MAJESTY held a Drawing-loom yesterday at Buckingham Palace, which was splendidlyattended. A detachment of the Kirg's Guard marched iotodae Court-yard, preceded by their Band, in their Stare uniforms; and shortly after, a numerous detachment of Life Guards, having new saddle-cloths, with their full Band in their splendid uniforms.: In addition to these were the esccltt of Life Guards attending the • Duke of YORK and the Duchess of KENT, who went 'in State. The Duke of CLARENE E w ent pr i vate ).. The Princess The[, MATILDA and attendants were in fwo carriages. Ilis MAJESTY went in a private carriage from his Palace in Pall-mall, about twelve o'clock, and dressed at Buckingham House, for the Drawing-room, in a Field Marshal's uniform. The AUSTRIAN AMBASSADOR went in State, ac companied by his Princess, and with their Highnesses ? suite, in two carriages. The SPANISH AMBASSADOR, acelempanied by 16s Duchess, also went in State, with their suite in twq carriages.- Although the weather was not favourable, several showers falling during the time of holding the Cost, and the wind being severely cold, a great concourse of people were collected in the Parks on the occasict.," Sir ROBERT BAKER, the Chief Magistrate of the Po , lice, with Townsend and a numerous assemblage of 'the Police Officers, were in attendance to preserve• order. The company began to arrive at the Palace between twelve and one.o clock, and continued set ting down till nearly four. Soon after two his MAJESTY left his privateap nt ' meats, and proceeded to his closet, where .he gave audiences to the Earl of LIVERPOOL and Viscotre CASTLEREAGH. .After which, the Duchess de Br. FItIAS, the Lady of the Spanish Ambassador, Ira introduced to his MAJESTY by ViSCOURIESS CASSIS. REACH, the Lady of the Noble Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs. His Al AJEiTY then proceeded to the Grand Salons, and took his station under the Throne, his Rolal Brothers, the bukes of YORK and CLARENCE, nikiig their stations to the right of the KING. The Princess AUGUSTA, the Duchess of KENT, and the Princes SOPHIA MATILDA, stood on his left. His AlArmery proceeded to receive the compli-'• menu of the Foreign Ambassadors and Alininers, ac companied by their Ladies, with his accustomeddit niried affability. There were present, besides— The Archbishop of t'antetbury, the Lord Choctaw', fit Archbishop of York, the Vice-Chancellor, the Attoraey.Gtse ral„ the Lord - Chief Justice of the Court of it's Bend, ce. e Lord Chief Justice of the Court of Common Pleas, the lad Chief Baron of Scotland, the Master of the Rolls, and aid.* who have the privilege of the entry. Among them were— The Honourable Corps of Gentlemen Permloners, whh their lieutenant, Standard -bearer, Clerk of the Cheque, and Gw*s man Harbinger, in attendance upon his Majesty. _ - - There were also present— The Judsie Advocate, the Recorder of London., gra. 13usgs-- - Wellington, Montrose. I)ermassits--Dowager of Riclimond, Montrose, Leisiwr, sod Richmond. Ma atatissrs--Winchester Hertford, lleadfort, Cassi s, Salisbury, Cholmorideley, Northimpton, ' Lansdown, Ala acsoe.ta:iiscs--'l'avistock, Not thampton, lausdoM den, Dowager Bath, Hertford, Stafford, Salisbury, Coorti° . ' HaaLs--Nrtsmouth, Delmore, Brecknock, Macciesfia Do' lawarre, Bathurst, Fife, Winchilsea, Mayo Ilarringtaa• It" wick, Westmoreland, Darr.ley, Liverpool, Belfast, Vendee. Corwrassca--Suifield, Mount-norrls, Delawarre, Bedwoollis Verulam,„Portsmouth, Mansfield, Limerick, Mayo, Wanolail Coventry, Delmore, Mulgrave, Harewood, Dowager * I !: norris, Chichester, St. Antonio, Ashburnham, Bathureas H rington, Pembroke, Carrarvoc, Lieven, Mention, Dl wa l le Harcourt, Darnley, St. Martin de Front. V,scocars—Melviile, Lake, Alelhourne, Castlereagh, 51 ' mouth, Palmerston, Ashbrook, Notsw.ohy. Vascoutiressiss-I:ormanhy, Middleton, Melville, aod reagh. Mona Ilmvorritar-rs—Sir G. F. Hill, W. Vansittara, !Anson, Mrs. Robinson, B. Bathurst, W. Wellesley Pole,,der" Nichol, R. Liston. nowt:luaus—Caroline D. Shore, Mrs. Lashio/ton, gr., Walpole, Rev. George • Pefiew, Lady Mimeo, Miss Coo" dington, Miss Ilarriet Addington, Captain Knox, RA E. Cwt, General Phipps, Met. Edward B ouver ie, 31r w^ ton, Lady I lotham, Miss Watson, Miss Irowys, Mies E. Paters Mrs. Wbat.house, Charles J. Shore, Mrs: !tantalum, 31iss Tao' fusis, Colonel Wodehouse, Mrs. Edmond Knox, three Rion Pratt, Bathurst, Miss Shirley, Ali,. Julia Shirley, 31iss naird, Mrs. Steward, James Somers Cocks, Mr. 31oliosat Sots—Miles Nightingall, C. Flower, J. Illrearords w A " . ... D 2 Benj. llobhuuse, G. Berkley, G. Blanc, W. Kerrison, C. Blunt, Simeon Stuart, J. Winne de l'outig, F. Molyneux Omni:inner, C. Staunton, 31.1. 3 . Ii L'ao's G. Fetheraon, M.l'. J. 11. Palmer,-G. Scott. it Wig ra Ai: G. Nayler, Murray Maxwell, G. Shiffne, W. rt'fkKl Warren, IL Gifford, Marry Calvert, William Corgreve J 'forrens, T. Ramsey, W. Gordon, Henry Campbell, J . HalliagYs J. Seweil, W. Scott, J. ()chary, J. Amin*,