Star. — London, England, 1823-05-23 00:00:00

to the year 1787. He then found that titer= was an a d va lorem Auty of 374 10s. and when the price of sager was low, this duty worries be a lower one for t he test Indies than for the West. in 1809 the du ties were altered ; but there was no protection liven • usi dt tot& at the time of opening the trade. Then a duty. of ten shillings was certainly put on ; but he waa convinced that it was put on without that grave ' cu4%ideation which the subject deserved. To those , who demanded the continuation of the duty as a ti ggi Of the Colonial system, he would say, that there now nothing left of that system. (Hear, hear.) *re was nothing of it left but that part which corn..l Flied t he Colonies to consume our manufactures. ; eit should be remembered , that we exported to ast Indies, as well as to the West. When the alteration of these duties should take place, and he knew they would, sooner or later, he trusted that the hadow hoct of the celonial system—every remains—the last of it, would be entirely destroyed—Weor, s hear). But even supposing a Charter to exist, which he wholly denied, it would form no insurmountable .ohjection. Of all the Charters for which the people , a f this country might have been supposed to be -axiom, and ready to stickle, he should have thought that one, the first which gave to agriculture the pro. tection of excluding Irish produce from our markets previous to 1805. yet that restriction was removed, and it was to the honour of the agricultural - classes, that now in the time of their great distress nut a word h a d h e e l ) heard in that House, and scarcely out of it, complaining of the measure. It was said that the time was ill-chosen for making the proposition, w h en the West Indian Planters were in so much dis; tress. He felt as deeply as any man for that dis tress, and he should he the last to propose any thing which he thought would increase it. But be was convinced that it sprung from ether causes, trod that monopoly would give them no relief.— ' ',obis opinion, before they would acquire prosperity, ,change in their system was necessary. And if the 'House would give him leave to strew that he did not sty this without supposing the change practicable, he would state in what he thought the change ought to consist. They must abolish their system of slavery. While it continued they never could compete with the produce of estates cultivated by free labourers. This bad been exemplified in all ages. and was not only the assertion of political economists, but of every his torian who treated of the subject. In Ittissia the same effect might be traced, in Poland, and in South Ame rica. Mr. Cox spoke of a Polish Nobleman who un franchised seven villages, and in ten years the pro duce of his estates was trebled. It might be said that this would not apply to the West India Colonies; but k ras .prepared with a case in point, where Mr. Steele pursued the same course upon an estate in itrbadoes, and with exactly the same result that the produce of his estate was trebled. He understood it to be the intention of Ministers to meet his motion by giving up the live shillings duty. But he should not cosrpromise the question ; and if the Committee were not granted, he should feel it his duty to divide the House. Ile was not calling upon Members to take off those duties, but to inquire and see what could be done upon the subject. He accordingly moved— " That a select Committee he appointed to inquire into the Duties payable on East and West India Sugar." Mr. R. ELLIS thought this was a question, if ever there was one, which was totally unfit to be sent to a Committee, for it •required no inquiry into the state or manufactures of the East and West Indies; but the question was one of state policy and vested irate . tests. In fact, the question was, whether they would sacrifice the Sugar Manufacturers of the West In as; for it actually went to put an end to that ma nufacture altogether. Ile protested entirely against using in this case the argument of free and unre stricted commerce. Ile did not controvert this doc trine generally ; but in this case the East India Gen tlemen did not wish freedom of trade, but only to supplant the West ludies,and to transfer the monopoly of the exclusive supply of Sugar to this country into their own hands. Neither did he think that this ques tion could fairly be made to rest on the extension of our commerce in the East Indies. There was a pre liminary question which the House had to decide, whether, having established our West India Colonies, it wassnow consistent with sound policy or justice to destroy them altogether? The mother country gave her West Indies the exclusive supply of Sugar, in re tarn for obliging them to take all European manufac tared goods from the mother country. He might with justice rest the claim of the West India Colonies on the non-existence of any such restriction on the East Indies. In the first place, the West Indies remained in the same situation as to the restriction on the supply of foreign manufactures. There was nothing lost to the British manufacturer in his protection from all other competitors. The same protection was still es tended to the Irish farmer for his salt provisions. The • British Ship-owner still retained his right of exclu sive freight in the West Indies. The restriction in favour of Fisheries still continued; and though the trade with the United States•wasopened last Session, it was under duties which gave complete protection to our North American Colonies. Such restrictions were not imposed•tspon our East Indian trade ; and though the MO.Vourable Gentleman was ready to give ! up all these restrictions, yet he thought the House would pause before meddled with so many inte rests. There had been a capital of not less than on; hundred millions sunk in the West India Islands. World they now turn round on the Planters, and say that Colonies were no longer of any use to the revenue, or conducive to the maintenance of a large mei cantile marine, contributing to the support of our naval greatness ? There were in the West . lndies a population of not less than 800,000 Negroes ; and Lid the lion. Gentleman contemplated the conse quence of throwing them out of employment by the destruction of the Sugar Trade of the West Indies ? He confessed that his imagination could not embrace -all the fearful - consequences of throwing such a po ?relation out of employment. It was enough • fee' him to chew that so many fearful questions were in. solved in the apparently simple one of equalising, the duties on East and West India Sugar,* to justify the vote he should give against the motion. Mr. K. DOUGLAS said, the manufactures of this, . country h a d b een - .brought to their present unparal• 4 eled extent by the (maintenance of what was called the Colonial System. lie would have the House to consider, that Stig:lT was almost the exclusive manta- , .factine of the 'West Indies. British manufactures, to t"e antoitasofahrec millions, wore annually-espor teal to them ; and we employed above 400,000 tons of shipping, obi above 23,000 seamen, in the West India trade. The revenue, too - ,-that we derived from: these Colonies was above five millions annually; and he would, therefbre, call on the House to pause be fore it broke down so many important interests. He contended, that it had always been understood that the West Indies had the exclusive supply of the home market with sugars. In 1818, the tonnage' employed out and home to the East Indies, was upwards of 200,000 tons; while, last year, it had decreased to 137,000 tons. We were in the habit of consuming 120,000 tons of sugar in this country annually, and' if one-half of thi s tra d e were given to the East Indies, it would transfer to them £700,000 a year. He was perfectly of opinion, from every view which he could now take of the question, that it would be cruel, and was unnecessary, to break down the exclusive advan tage now given to the West Indies, and therefore he should give the motion his decisive negative. Mr. ROBERTSON said, we imported one-third more sugar to this country than was consumed in it. , He did not consider that the Planter would be the person most interested, but that the consumer at lhome eould be the person most injured. In the East Indies they could not raise sugar for their own con sumption, and they were supplied front China and Java. The smiling our manufactures io India, and prohibiting them from sending us theirs, was one of the cruelest cases that could exist. Mr. RICARDO was convinced, no danger would arise from admitting E'ut India Sugars, into a corn petion with West India Sugars. At present, East India Sugars were competing with West India Sugars, in every market on the Continent, and yet they could not drive the West India Sugars out of the market„ and under these circumstances, he contended we could not be justified in excluding East India Sugars from our markets. Gentlemen - had talked of the restric tions imposed on the Colonies. He believed, on in quiry, it would be found, that the East Indies la boured under heavier restrictions than the West In dies. The Hon. Gentleman had talked of a compact. He contended, that real policy afid justice would be, to free the trade from all restraints, and let the people get their sugar as cheap as they could. It had been said our vessels and seamen employed in the West India Trade would be, by this measure, turned adrift; then they would be employed in another quarter. So with regard to &mow slaves, who were to be thrown out of employ. He (Mr. Ricardo) believed this would be for the benefit of the slave and the Planter: for he was convinced the Planters would then discover some better and more productive male of employing their slaves. The Hon. Member then adverted to the opinion delivered by the Member for Sandwich, and to a Pachphlet wtitten by him, which proved that that Honourable Member was no political eco nomist. He concluded by expressing himself deci dedly in. favour of a f;ee trade. Mr. MARRYATT said, it was very_easy for Gen tlemen to come down to the House and rail against monopoly, and argue for free trade, whilst they had the profits of monopoly in their pockets. Those Gen tlemen would act much more consistently, if they would go to Leadenkall.street, and employ their elo quence against the monstrous monopoly which ex..: isted there. The Hon. Gentleman who had last ad-' ' dressed the House had charged him that he was no political economist. Perhaps he was not ; but he had, in the opinions he.beld, always argued for the -adop tion of that principle which he though most likely to do justice to individuals, and, at the same time to benefit the Public. He should oppose the motion. Mr. ItICARDO, in explanatiOn, said, he was not an East India Proprietor, nor had he ever been a 1 1 supporter of monopoly in his life. Mr.WILBERFO RC E said, anybody, to have heard 1 I the speech of the Hon. Gentleman opposite, would I have supposed his Hon. Friend had proposed at once to introduce innovation and alteration, whereas be had merely asked for a Committee of Inquiry, so as to ascertain what would be the effect of repealing certain duties. Now he contended, with his Hon. Friend, that the repeal of the ten shillings duty would not be at all injurious to the West India Islands, but, on the contrary, a benefit. As an ap peal to those who, like him, favoured the slaves, it was said, that to adopt such a plan as this now pro posed, would be destructive to the slaves, as it would throw the sugar plantations out of cultiva tion. He believed that the measure would not have that effect ; but, even if it had, the Planters would find other means of employing them. Whenever sugar was at a high price, the slaves were suffer ing ; for they were then working day and night. Any change would be better for the slave, the misery of whose situation was sufficiently proved by the decrease which was continually taking place in their numbers. It appeared that under the present system we nerer• should obtain a black population. This would be proved by on circumstance, which he would state. In Jamaica we had about 540,000 slaves, out of about 1,100,000 who had been imported. Let - us for a moment reflect on this circumstance, and the mind would shrink back with horror from the contempla tion of the sacrifice of human life, which had been the result of this system. He felt most sincerely for the situation of the Planter, and he was convinced the measures now recommended would be for the benefit of the West India Planters ; but whether for their benefit or not, he must call for inquiry. He did not know whether the House would grant inquiry ; but if they refused it, he was persuaded the country would say it was because they feared to lay them selves open to investigation. Mr. HUSKISSON, after the speeches which be had just heard,- could not consent to go into this in qoiry, because he was convinced that if the Houle did go into inquiry, it would not be diretted to the point connected with the subject for which the Cons mittee would be ostensibly appointed, but would be diverted solely to the question of Slavery in the' West Indies—a question which, he had understood, was on a former night left, where alone it ought to be left, in the hands of the •gaecutive Government. ,his 11011. Friend. had said, if inquiry was now re fused, it would be said it was refused because there was ,ioll.thing in the question which would not bear in ,quiry. What, he would ask. could there belt this ques -tion which would not bear inquiry ? unless, indeed, this was to be a question of, and inquiry into, the whole state of Slavery; and if such was the object, why not vow it once? The Right Honourable Gentleman then entered into a review. of -the question at large, and tontended..that the East Indies could sot advaa tageously supply Europe with sugar. The question now was, not where they. could get sugar cheapest, but where they could get it fairly : and it was not because a state of things, obnoxious indeed, .but Still legal, had sprung up .in our Colonies, tbat we were to press on individuals already suEering serious in conveniencies. After some further observatiOns,. he a concluded by moving the previous question. Mr. MONEY spoke in favour of the motion. He had heard nothing in answer to the able speech.of Lhe Honourable Mover; and be considered the opposition . 'to the motion as tending to give a monopoly to the West India Proprietors of the supply of Sugar to this country—Ube impatience of the House for the ques tion, and the interruption which was given to the Ho ' nourable Member was so great, that a Member de clared, that unless his Honourable Friend were heard, he should move an adjournment of the debate.J— Mr. MONEY resumed.—The Members connected with the East Indies had given a patient attention to the arguments of tlixtse connected with the West Indies;. and it was not too'much to expect a similar course. ; If the claim of monopoly was well founded, what oc casion was there for this protecting duty? The law giving the monopoly, if there was any, would be a prohibition—( Hear, hear). Mr. FORBES said, that a pledge had been given last Session by thh Exchequer to the East India Com pany, that the measure now moved for would be taken up by Government and sent to a Committee. He saw, however, that the interest of the West In dians, in that House, was paramount. Mr. C. W. WYNN said the pledge alluded tc, re lated only to the ss. duty on clayed sugar. Mr. WHITMORE repel very briefly, contend ing that the case he had -male out in his opening, had not been answered. He should certainly bring the subject again before the House next &Ilion. Strangers were ordered to withdraw, and the House divided, when there appeared, " For the Motion - $4 For the Previous Question - 'l6l Majority - - —127 MR. AI'ADANI . 3 CLAIMS. A conversation took place as to going into a Committee on these.cialms. The motion for pins into the Committee was op posed by Mr. H. SUMMER, Mr. Selma, add Sir R. Hireos, and supported by Mr. MAIMBLT, Mr: rIA113:0, and Mr. Wont. Strangers were ordered to withdraw • but no division took place, and it was agreed to appoint a Selct Committee. The other Orders of the Day were tbet disposed of, and at a Quarter past Two ()TWO' the Hpv sagro(trievi. THE EVENINVISTAjt. to.NvoN.‘ monalle,7o. FRIDAY, MAY•2S,. We have received both the Paris Morning and Evening Papers of Wednesday, and though they contain more ample details respecting the war in Spain than they have done for some days, yet there is some difficulty in ascertaining the true position of the belligerents, pr the events which have actually taken place. It is, however, evident that the recent operations in Catalonia have been unfavourable to the ,French,. and that MINA, whom one of our concern• poraries declares to be no General, has out-generalled I Marshal MONCZY. . . , It is gated in a sort of demi-official article Born Gerona, dated May 15, that a dispatch had beenye ceived at midnight from Marshal MONCEY, who had • marched out to attack the enemy, stating that MINA ,' had just retired, and expressing regret at " not hav- ' ing heard a certain whizzing noise, which would have invigorated his old years." If we may judge ' from another paragraph in the same article, dated one day later, the old Marshal had heard the " whizzing sound" he longed for, hough it does not . seem to have " invigoritted his old years," for he vaunted to Gerona not to announce a victory oypr Mora., whom be had marched out to attack. Not one word is mentioned of Musa ; but we are told that MILANs bad evacuated the strong position he occupier), and was marching in the direction of Barcelona ; . and the account ends in the usual w•ay,ahout the ardour of the French troops. Thus it will be seen that we are left entirely in the dark as to the cause of Marshal MONCEY's return to I Gerona ; and this silence is the more extraordinary, as the Journal .des %Wats of Monday positively stated, on the authority of /eaters of the, pth from Gerona, that the whole of the French army had moved, An order to invest Barcelona, and place itself in line qa the Ebro.. It would therefore appear, from 'the return of MONCEY, that this movement has been disconcerted, and that the 'French, instead of advancing, have Veen, compelled to measure back their steps. In this opi nion we are confirmed, both from the Elate omitting to mention any of the positions of the French troops after the alleged retreat of Mmarrs on Barcelona, and from the French Government not deeming it, prudent to publish the official statement, which it; probably received on Tuesday, if not on Monday. From all these circumstances, it appears pretty evident that the Spaniards have gained some decisive advantages : nor is this rairprising, if the assertion in the Paola be true, that the army under the command of MINA, exclusive of troops in garrison, amounts to 20,000 men ; that it is composed principally of vete • rans, who served, during the war of independence, under the same General who is naw at their head, and to whom they are entirely devoted ; that the garrisons have not weakened the army to any extent, for they are almost wholly composed of active Mi litia. The principal Chiefs of MINA's corps are Mi- LLOBERA, MANSO, ROTTEN, and GOAREA.--- MILANI and LLonarta are in the environs of Hostal rich, Malmo in Cerdagne, and Romer; and GORREA were at the opening of the campaign, in the imme• diate neighbourhrpd of Tarragona. Coont-d'Amsnar. is also said to have a considerable army, and there is little doubt that-the activity of General Monititi, and ' ni will have rallied aronad him a .tonsisliiralle ininsber of Constitutionalists, with whieii the iiiactivtry of the French will enable him tb join d'A*lssaii,4"if trle*it • the jun ction has not already taken place. .. •• Accounts front Perpignan, dated the 10th inst. the Echo da Midi, state that a great number Of Priests, Monks, and other refugees, who had set ou t; .for Spain, had returned to France ; and that a convoy . cf 60 .mules„ loaded with mountain artillery And arti:., munition, had also retrograded: • • The intelligence I - roil Bayonne, in the French *Papers, is to the l6th inst. A report prevailed there that the Duc trASOQUI•itig had dispatched sage to Mtaa, entreating him to make . end .not to prolong Stcontest so unequal, and the sequances of Which must be so dreadful to the Cari:', "mut! a l Army and . tn*hattianity; in delaying the deliverance of King Faanuspan infra* Oacificsttiosi: of Spain. We suspect that his Royal Highness knows INltza t * better than to make such a proposition to him: The troops of ilie*ilockade of St. Sebastian, en camped in a btirning sand, are it; complete inaction: The garrison send to graze on the glacis the cattle destined to furnish provisions for the besieged, with= out being opposed; and but for the ramparts, it could not be ascerraineil who ate the besiegers. In the provinces occupied by the French, the Spa.; nish Authorities have sent to the-Army . of th: Faith . all the men between 20 and 90 years of age; those who are serving in the Constitutional Eorps are to re: turn within a limite4l period, otherwise their relations are to be arrested as hostages, and their property confiscated. PRIVATE LETTER, FROM OUR OWN CORIMSP.anDENT. • PAWS, U.tir 21. " If you were here you would, perhaps, be sur prised, as I am, at the very little interest the war ex: cites. On 'Change you hear a number of rumours concerning.the progress of the armies, the surrender of one place, and the resistance of another, and there are even more,conjectures as to its probable result than rumours concerning its progress. There is hot and tempestuous war in the columns of the News papers. }low an t i then, in a coffee•house, you hear a question asked as to the news in the Moniteur ; and whenever you see a select party of English, they are ,sure to discuss the last Bulletins, tell all the secret reports their greedy ears have collected,' and con-' demn the invasion. But this is nearly all you hear in Paris of the war. Those who recollect the intense interest excited by every one of Bonaparte's cam paigns; how rapidly victory followed his advance, oc rather, as one of his poets sang, g flew before him till she was weary; how anxiously every Belletin was looked for; how frequent and splendid were the rejoicingly for his numerous successes; cannot persuade them selves that France is again at war. The French... M inister has not yet dipped his hand deeper than be fore into the pockets of the people, You will re collect that he has provided for all the extraordinary expenses of the war by a vote, of credit or loan. Its effects, therefore, are not 'felt at Paris in any shape ; neither by contributions nor illuminations; and the badauds, except for those pestiferous things called Journals (and for the sake of•repose, the Police. nister is careful they shall not make too-much-noise) ; would absolutely know nothing of • the war; and would take, if that be possible, even less interest in it than they do. When they come to be vexed with contributions, as I assure you they *ill be;'./.!tether successful or not, for the war is enorniou 4 s . ly expensive ;- and when the elite of theirlamilies are taken away, as from the beginning successes of the man-slayer, Mina, and the fever-bearing country they are in, they most probably will, unless your Government interposes and patches up an accommodation, till one party or the other has gathered strength to subdue his op ponent, then the good people of Paris, and perhaps of aalfrance, will be very •angry at the war, xitich is.at present not by Roy means popular, but which is regarded with, to me, astonishing indifference. - es There is perhaps at this moment a greater de sive for repose, and a less wish for glory among the french people, than has existed since .the reign of LouisXV. They seem neither to expect nor to wish for victory; to.care nothing about.it either one way • or the ,other; and the war will only ultimately be dangerous to 'the sway of the Bourbon family by goading the people to exertion, condemning them to privations, and bringing on poverty and distress.— You will, of course, have seen the report of Mina's movement towards the French frontier, and his de feat of Romagosa. ;I It. is undoubtedly a fact, however discoloured in the French official Bulletins, that Mina's march from Vich back to Ripoll, was a masterly and well-planned movement ; that by it heal; off I)onnadieu's supplies, and placed him in very great danger, if he has not defeated him ; and he surprised Roniagosa, and put -his division to the sword. I have heart), from good authority, that Mina's successes have produced con sternation in the French Ministers. They have been obliged to manufacture the official account s before they would venture to shew theni to the Count D'Artois and the King; and 'Viscount Chiteaubtiand is reported to have said •that Mina would outwit them all. The Duke d'Angouteme disburses his 'cash like a Prince ! Bread,. lam told, yens twenty-two-sous the pound in the• French camp. , •the Finalite ter, and I . suprose the War Minister alse, are little . - • au ^ - V I .