Star. — London, England, 1821-03-03 00:00:00

r" . - , J o was *ought in, and read a. first !ire, for *Aka - tieing moral of Roan Islatta tit Antigua. . Ala • n gat w as braisgtet in fee erecting a Harbour Ist,the Molise I s .; i n t he enemy of Co:U* 4 ll.— heed a hrst time. Is tort of Sessions Bill was read a second time, sad or to be committed on .Wednesday. r ea nipartationßill was reed a third time, and passed. PARISH OF ST: SIA RT, NEWINGTON. ar sogEHT WILSON presented a Petition from a Pa ey the Parish of St. Mary, Newington, against the 'Meet Vestry Bilk -.DENISON also presented a Petition, signed by IMS y,h•son, householders, of St. Mary, Newington, against the lid v es try 11.11. Xr. C. CA INERT wished to call the attention of the House . sde at The Parish of Newington contained 6000 houses, 'ef which were fanned, and of the remaining 3000, no less '^-)off b e d rtitioned against the Bill. This wra a consider 'Aerie, of those who had votes in the Vestry. in e ltethion was received. li e . O.SD3INER then, after some conversation with Mr. postponed the second reading of the Bill till Monday. wAitit COMPA ti I RS. kt.UOBITOUSE presented a Petition from certain Inha- Uwe of St. George, Hanover-square, complaining of the lam '•netind by the NVater Companies. 'Or fit. !MANTLE said, since he had been named Chair tya of die Committee appointed tgst nquire into this subject, he lag imbed numerous letters from .individuals, complaining of theims gsssos to Which they were liable, and stating, that in imirejeace of their refusing to comply with these impositions, ijiraqfAy of water had been withdrawn from them. -Aka few words from Mr. M. A. Mum**, the Petition mog o e mi, sod refined to the Water Committee. itiC,ULT UI!A t. puritans. p et itHirs were pi esented from certain occupiers of wi n }be county of Susiex, complaining of Agri tibial Distress. L oe d.C. MANNERS presented a similar Petition f row. c e rtain occupiers of land in the county of Cam ila/le. The Petition prayed the appointment of a Committee With unrestricted powers. Lord MILTON agreed in the prayer of the Peti tiger& If a Committee was appointed on this sub he thought it should be unshackled. Its inquiry, serer, bo thought, ought not to be directed parti cularly to taxation on Alfriculture. He wished to im pels"' on the mind of the Noble Lord, and on the minds tithe House, that a taxation arising out of a long mg, greater than ever had existed before, was the loot oldie evil. He would also call the attention of &House to a measure adopted by the House two legs age, for zesuming cash payments. This mea gre had considerably reduced the quantity of cur acy in circulation ; and it could not be expected, is, with much less money in circulation, a price a high as formerly could be obtained for corn.-- kau impossible; and, to hold out such a hope, was a delusion on the people of the most dangerous kind. The only relief for the farmer would be a reduction itaution. He knew there were many farmers who ipotesi the present low price of grain to the want aE proper protection against importation ; but this was net the case, since for the last two years there Lid been no importation ; the prices, therefore, c arid it bare been affected by the introduction of foreign grin. He was convinced nothing but a reduction situation could relieve the farmers ; and he did not Aye it was possible to relieve them by transferring Rawer ht of taxation from them to any other class, axial classes were alike distressed. He was aware ire was a cause of our distress ; a cause which de scend and distressed us ; a burthen which, unless we midget rid ef, we could expect no relief; be meant the interest of the National Debt ; and he could not shin from calling on his Majesty's Government to eanidk whether some mode could not be adopted grimacing that interest without injustice to the putt % ereditoft Delta CRi NS considered the present low price of igifeikitlie 1 a.produce as arising out of the abundant cep of the last year. With respect to taxation, he' , hew ,of no tax which did not press on the Farmer quailwith all others ; but there was one which on the Farmer alone—that was the Agricul mal Horse Tax. He thought that tax should be !gelled; rand he could name a tax which might be imposed instead of it, which be was persuaded would Ut,. it (tit by ank one—that was, a Tax on the Tousfee of Stock. Mr. WESTERN thought the present distress was Mainly owing to the reduction in the circulation, by the sir taken to resume cash payments, no equal reduc ton baring taken place in taxation and expenditure. Mr. PEEL understood that the Hon. Gentleman kid imputed the principal causes of the present dis tross to the measure brought hi for the resumption of cash payments. Be brought in that Bill, and he wash! not complain of discussions on that subject king broutht torward , on presenting a Petition.— Re thonld owever show, that he Jid not consider it as quite regular, by refraining to follow the exam ple ; especially as the Honourable Member for Taun ton had given notice of his intention to bring for ward the subject in a specific form. He desired, however, that his silence might not be construed into la acquiescence on his part with the Arguments of the Hon. Member. lir. BAttiNG said, he had given notice of his in lention to bring thrsubject under the consideration ( the House ; but as the Chancellor of the Excho. pet had stated his intention of bringing forward a anion on the subject, he should readily give way to but Right Hen. Gentleman. Sir C. BURRELL urged a tax on the transfer of Stock as one which might be adopted with advan nr, not only to the Agriculturist, but to the country It hirge ; and was proceeding in detail to point out be advantages which would arise from such a tax, them be wad called to Order by Mr. BARING, who submitted that this was not the lee to enter into the question wh4ber a tax should, b laid upon Stock or not. Sig C. BURRELL would not press the 'abject: but It it had been before adverted to, be thought be was la itraglider in introducing it. Lord MILTON, in explanation, repeated what he had said as to the effect whicfi the diminution of the circulation by the steps taken for resuming cash pay molts, bad in reducing the price of grain. He also denied that the harvest was so abundant as to have *veil the price of grain; on the contrary, the har lotiatt ytar was in many parts e.stremely deficient. lltv k Petition was then received, and ordered to printed. 'IL ROBINSON preseated e similar Petition tom tensile Occupiers of Land in ISlgri.bo4llo.o44lirg• TIM CAIIIOI.IB COMMllriki. KUNIMTT, adverting to what had passed la :hit *abject cos Wednessla,y, observes!, he did not illailk toy Gentleman As pledged by the vote he Pre that eight. He should now propose his Rests- Intions.to the.Comroittee, And would propose that the IBill should be brought in on Tuesday, printed, and the second reading be fixed for Monday senuight.-- The Right Hon;Gentleman proceeded to . read .his Resolutions. • The first Resolution referred to the Laws how in force, as regarded the oaths required to be taken by Roman Catholics, to qualify them for, holding civil or military employment. The third' Resolution referred more particularly to the Oath of Supremacy, and declared that such parts of that oath 'as regarded transubstantiation, the Virgin Mary, the adoration of images, &c. should be considered as spe culative doctrines, and as not affecting the allegiance to the Sovereign; especially as the oath declared, that no foreign Prince or Potentate had any controul in this realm, either temporal or spiritual. The fourth Resolution said, as difficulties had arisen respecting the term Spiritual Jurisdiction, it was declared that this term should be construed as it was construed by the Ist and 4th of Elizabeth, and by the 39 Articles. The fifth Resolution declared the expediency of taking care to enact such restrictive clauses, and make such reservations as should secure the succession to the Throne to a Protestant Prince. 1 1 Mr. PEEL said lie would not now oppose the Speaker's leaving the Chair, understanding as he did that these Resolutions were only tendered pro, forma, but he felt it his duty also to say, that, as well as lie could collect the Resolutions from his hearing them, he wasalecidedly hostile to them. He should oppose them in a manly manner, but, he trusted, with cool nest ana temperance. He would also suggest, that although the question had now been carried for in quiry, there was no certain grounds of triumph.— The question for going into a Committee had been carried on a former occasion by a larger majority than on the present occasion, and still the Bill was lost in a COMmittees Called on as he wl,, however, to op pose this measure by a conscientious sense of duty, he should still, as he had already said, oppose it with coolness and temper, ana in such a manner as, if the Bill was carried, should prevent jealousy on the part of the Protestants, and, if it was rejected. should give I no grounds for irritation on the part of the Catholics. Sit G. lIILL declared his decided opposition to the Bill. He considered the time named as too short ; he thought on . so important a question as this, there ought to be a: Call of the House ; and, if no other Member moved it he would. Sir JOHN NEWPORT regretted that the Right Ron. Baionet . should have. expressed . himself so warMly. Ike lamented that the Right Hon. Gentle man had not followed the coarse taken by the Right Hon. Gentleman who preceded him. Mr. MONTAGUE declared he would oppose the Bill in every stage. Lord MILTON wished to know whether, as the Hon. Baronet intended to move the Call of the House for the second reading, he would oppose the first? Sir G. HILL said, he would not ; but gill he urged the time fixed to be too short. .Borough; but .he feared 'there was a radical diffe mace between.Ninsulf and the Honourable General. He should move to omit the words ten pounds, and TO insert twenty pounds. Mr, P. COUR 11ENAY admitted the respectability of the lower orders ; but be was not clear that their happiness would be promoted by the extension of the right of sari age. The Eioctors of Westminster had been grossly calumniated, if, on former Elections, corrupt practices had not been resorted to. lie should support the amendment. Mr. H. GURNEY was in favour of the mode of voting by scot and lot in the particular case of Leeds, though he did not approve of the principle generally. Mr. BARING said, that 4s l this was the first in-' stance that had come before the House, the precedent about to be established became of great importance. Though property ought to feral a considerable ele ment in the principle of represent on, yet it ought to be qualified by the principle of population. A scale might be graduated, from ElO upwards, giving one vote to a proprietor of £lO, and more votes as the scale of property increased--(Cries of Hear, hear, and No, nal—Though in the case of Westminster and Southwark there might not have been a great expenditure of money, there had been an ample ex penditure of nonsense—(Hear) —as men talked there in a manner they would do nowhere else—(Hear, and laughter)—for every one knew that a person who presented hintself as a Representative for either of those places must talk nonsense—(Near)—particu larly if he wer e the popular candidate, and which lie would be ashamed to hear afterwards in any other place--( Hear, hear, and laughter).—He must talk not as if he were addressing himself to Gentlemen, or to persons of common sense—(Hear) — Sir ROBERT WILSON rose to order.—He had never addressed, nor could he stoop to address lan guage to his constituents of which he would be ashamed to be reminded in another place—(Cheers).—lf the Honourable Gentleman would ever attend Meetings where the Honourable Members he (Mr. Bating} had alluded to, spoke to their Electors, lie might have ample opportunity to correct his opinion—(Hear). Mr. BARING disclaimed any allusion to any in dividual, either to the I-lon. Baronet, the Member for Westminster—(Hear, hear)—or the gallant General who sat for Southwark. He was more inclined to vote for the principle of E.W. Mr. C. CALVERT bore testimony to the disin terested conduct of the electors of Southwark. No application, during the five contested elections which he had stood for that borough, had ever been made to him for the payment of rates or taxes--( Cheers). Lord MILTON wished the amendment to be with drawn, as he intended to move that all restrictions should be removed. The Hon. Member (Mr. Stuart Wortley) might move his amendment in a future stage. It was more agreeable tethe ancient Consti tution that Leeds should be made a scot and lot borough.- Nothing could shew more clearly the Mr. BRIGHT considerei thetime fixed as too short.' Sir G. HILL said, he should certainly move the Call of the House for the second reading. Mr. H. SUMNER thought a full attendance on this subject most important ; but he trusted the Right Hon. Member would not persist in fixing his second reading for Monday week, when many Gentlemen would be attending 'their duty at the Assizes. Mr. PLUNKETT was desirous of accommodating Gentle ..en as tar as possible, and was not bigotted to any particular day. He, however, suggested the great incor.venience and evil whith would arise from keeping this important question in suspense to agi tate the public mind. Mr. W. WYNN hoped the Riglit I-lon. Gentleman would not give way. It was the duty of Gentlemen to attend their duty in Parliament without consider ing any other duty; if this question was put off till , every Member was able to attend, it would not be disposed of during the present Session. Lord CASTLEREAL:I4 suggested this day fort night for the second reading. Mr. PLUNKETT said, he was ready to accede to fancies that even sensible men were sometimes apt to entertain, than the graduated scale of his, lion. Friend (Mr. Baring), for multiplying the number of votes that a wealthy man might give. Mr. BARING.—" Up to four !" —(Levedet). Mr. S. WORTLEY had no Ob4ectiort to withdraw his motion for the amendment. Mr. W. 'WYNN stated, that if the amendment of the Noble Lord should he carried, there would be no opportunity of putting the amendment of the Hon. Member for York hire. After a few words from the Coat It MA LI, Lord MILTON moved, that the words " at the sum of" should be left oir, which would have the effect of doing away all restrictions. • Lord ALTHORPE thouffit it would be improper to lay down any one exclusive system of voting, as extremely unconstitutional. By extending the right of voting as widely as possible, much discontent would be removed. He, after much consideration, was inclined to a reform in the mode of returning Members to that House, and should vote for the amendment of the NobleLo.ll (Milton). Mr. MARTIN, of Galway, disapproving of every part of the Bill, would support the increase proposed in the amount of the qualification. Without inquiring whether the imputations thrown out against the Elec tors of Southwark and Westminster were true or not, he could not help observing, that the opinions of the Honourable Members for those places, and perhaps he might add for Middlesex also, were not usually in accordance with those of the generality of the House. He had good authority for saying, that one of the Ilanking•houses in Leeds contemplated the removal lof its Establishment, if this Bill passed into a law— (Name!). —Under existing circumstances he did not think it safe to name, nor would it be safe for the Gentry of Leeds to petition against the Bill. Mr. LOCKHART was against the mode of voting upon the principle of scot and lot. He was for some moderate qualification that would confer the right of voting ; and the sum of £lO seemed to meet the ex pediency of the case. Sir R. WILSON reminded the Committee, that in Southwark the voters were inhabitant householders, paying scot and lot. With regard to what had fallen from the Hon. Member for Galway on the subject of the Representatives for Westminster and Southwark, he could onl ply, that he (Mr. M.) was oneof those this proposition. After a few words from Lord A. HAMILTON, the House went into a Committee. Mr. PLUNKETT proposed his Resolutions, which were agreed to. The house resumed; the Report was received, and Mr. PLUNKETT moved for and obtained leave to bring in a Bill founded thereon. • Sir G. HILL then moved, that the House should be called over this day fortnight. Mt. ABERCROMBIE hoped this motion would not be ;speed to without dueconsideretion. It must be believed, that on tins important question no Mem ber would wantonly absent himself from his duty.— To enforce a Call now could only operate most vexa tiously on Members placed in particular situations. Colonel BAGWELL said, it would operate vexa tiously, without proving effective; as even if the Call should be fixed for this day fortnight, the Irish Mem. bars would not have time to arrive from Ireland. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was desirous to have as full an attendance-as possible on this occasion; but, at the same time, he thought fur ther delay should not take place. The Call of the House was then flied for this day formisla. GRASIPOUND DISFRANCHISEMENT BILL. , Ci y reply, The House then went into a Committee on the "whose praise h censure, aoil whose censures raise !" • Grampound Disfranchisement Bill. Mr. MARTIN said, that he rose to explain, not to Mr. STUART WORTLEY said, this Bill had for apologise to the Hon. General. What he asserted its its object to transfer the franchise from Grampound the House be would assert anywhere. In what he bad to Leeds. To that he would not object. He was stated he did not mean either to criticise or to censure. also most anxious to give to Leeds a popular and nu- Mr. BBOGDEN reminded the Hon. Gentleman, merous suffrage; yethe must object to that clause of that the Member for Horsham (Mr. Hurst), had first the Bill which fixed the qualification of a voter at caught his eye, and ought to have precedence, es £lo a-year. He considered the qualification as fixed cepting for explanation--(Order / Chair too low, and should, in a future stage of the Bill, Mr. MARTIN contitused, that be would strictly propose an . - amendment, that the qualification should confine himself to explanation, though he thought be 1:20 instead of £lO zental. that a Gentleman was entitled to some indulgence in Lord MILTON was rather in favour of making this respect, who bad been told that his praise was the Borough a Scot and Lot Borough, and not censure, and his censure praise) It was the easiest naming any specific qualification. and the safest thing in the world for a man to bra- Sir ROBERT - WILKIN stated the conduct of the 'rail° in the House of commons: he had no such in.. Electors of Westminster to be most pure and honour- tension : be felt kindly towards the gollant General, able. In the Borough that be represented, the first and if he had meant to-affront bins, he would have contest had not cost more than £7OO, and in the last, chosen a different place for doing so. the expense had only amounted to 000. This was Mr. HIJIXST adverted to what had beim aim oq a Scot and Lot Borough ; and the facts spoke for former occasions on the disfranchisemeut of Be themselves. He hoped the Member for Yorkshire rotighs: those Bills uniformly gave the right of voting, would withdraw his opposition. to freeholders of 40s. He was strongly in favour a Mr. STUART AIaBILEX meant nethihs disre- , the amendment togiye the tiibt of voting to, 4 *be Inc tfu I either to the Panora of Westminster or dsa i paid scot sad lot. Mv, PEElrpreferred the 4:20 as a reasosable limi tation on the elective franchise. That limitation would give from 2000 to 5000 voters, which was a ifair expression of public opinion. The objections to the scot and lot plan were strong, and he lamented ' that the right of voting had not been extended to the East Riding of Yorkshire. To introduce the !wind ,ple of scot and lot into a manufacturing t , wit like Leeds, would be a great disadvantage to it, and might cause the removal of somebranct es of industry. Mr. AIIERCROMBIE had, in the first instance, been 'desirous that the Representation should have been extended to Yorkshire, and would vote for the Amendment of the Noble Lord, the Member for that County, as more analogous to the Constitution. Mr. PEEL explained. Mr. AIONCK thought, that all were agreed as to the principle of the Bill. He should support the Amendment of the Noble Lord, as he was a friend to established usages. If the 'Amendment tended to give the elective franchise to a considerable portion of the poorer classes, on that account it was entitled to support. Lord CASTLEREAGII was a sincere friend to the principle of the Bill, though he should have pre ferred a District Reform, as the safer principle. But as the House had decided otherwise, the question was, which was the more expedient, as to the place that had keen selected. He looked with considerable apprehenstonlo the Scot and Lot System,• especially in the case or•stlarge population.. But wiry should Scot and Lot be ,preferred to Burgage Tenure, or either to the ancient exercise by Charter of the power of the Crown. Of the sums he preferred the £2O. Mr. ABERCI4O)II3I2 Ind Lord CASTLERBAGH plained. Mr. MARTIN said, that a m . ra4eo force would be necessary at the poll, to preserve vanquillity of Leeds. He would ask if the Noble Lord had taken the opinion'ef the principal inhabitants of that town? Mr. DENMAN said, it must ex,cite alarm in the minds of the friends of Reform, to find the question treated as one of mere expediency. He was of opi nion that the extension of the elective franchise would tend to the tranquillity of the place. He bad sonic experience on the subject in the town that he repre ented; and no discontent had appeared in the town of Nottingham, from its having Members in Parlia ment ; and bad that been the case with Manchester and Huddersfield, much of the discontent would have been removed. The House should adhere to the established usage of the Constitution, in extend ing the elective franchise. - Mr. W. COLUITENAY was in favour of limiting the qualification to £2O. Mr. SCARLETT asked who was to judge of the value of the tenement P Such a regulation would cause much discontent in the town, and an acciden tal fall in the rent of houses would disqualify a large number of voters. The simple mode would be to leave it to the scot and lot rents. Lord J. RUSSELL replied.' The amendment of the Noble Member for Yorkshire had a captivating appearance; but he thought the spirit, rather than the mete form, of our ancestors should be imitated. The principles of making the qualification £lO was, in fact the same as that of scot and lot. The limit ation of £2O would narrow extremely the right of voting, and extend it to little•more than 2,000 per sons, and most of them freeholders of the county of York.--The Committee divided—. For the original motif* . - 182 For Lord Aiiition's amendment - 66 Another division took place on the amendment of Mr. S. Wortley, limiting the qualification to £2o. For the original motion, 94—For the amendment, 148 —Majority in favour of the amendment, .54.. On the clause for allowing such Burgesses of Gram pound as had not been convicted of bribery to vote fur the county of Cornwall, MP. D. GILBERT opposed the clause as unjust towards the electors•of Cornwall. He thought it would be better to transfer these Burgesses gony. He should, at all events, oppose their being thrown on the county, and with that view he should move that this clause be omitted. Mr. TIERNEY defended the. clause. If it was omitted 40 persons, who had been convicted of no crime, would be deprived of their franchise. This would not recommend the Bill in another place. Mr. W. WYNN defended the clause; the Act of the Corporation must be taken to attach to all the Burgesses, though some of them might be innocent; he should support the clause, as by it he thought the rights of these persons would be preserved. Mr. MARTIN thought the measure unjustifiable; the individuals in question were as honourable men as any in the County ; to transfer them to the County would be to deal out justice and compensation in the same manner as would he done by reducing a Colonel or a Major in the army, and then by way of compen. sation, making them drummers--(Hear, Lear).—lf this clause were to stand, these individuals would be deprived of their valuable franchise for the Borough, and be thrown amongst a body of three or 4000 voters; there could he no comparison as to the value of the franchise. Lord J. RILSSELL had no objection to transfer them to a neighbouring Borough, if it could be done. Mr. WORTI.Ey would support the amendment, w render the Bill less objectionable to the Lords. He sincerely hoped this-Bill would pass this House, and that it would also be adopted by the other House. The Clause was then rejected. Lord JOHN RUSSELL then propo , ed a Clause for limiting the duration of Electinns at Lteds to five days.--This Clause, after some observations from Lord LOWTHER, MT. W. WYNst, Mr. TIERNEY, atc. WAs agreed to. The other Classes were then agreed to, an 4 Report was ordered to be received on I,lsnaday next. alNes RENCII BUJ.. The King's. Bench Bill was read a second time. On the question fen- its being commiited, A. TAYLOR expressed his approbation of a bill, an d declared, he wished to aee the principle of the Bill carried further. The Bill was committed for Thursday uext. - - SALVAGE. On the Repast of the Salvage Act being brought •p, Dr. LUSIiiNGTON wialutd to know *hilt was tit, object of these who supported this Itaselition? was ix intended to bring in a Bill to continue cm Lain Acts, the expiration.of - which would be a public benefit? Mr, LiiIkIWGTON. Said, !t viii) kneaded td brims ply :11- at k~ M_'