Star. — London, England, 1821-02-01 00:00:00

• manifested some impatience on account of it, Lord Wilmington came down and assured them, that the 's4lelay arose solely from the circumstance of some • inquiries which were made as to the due precedency of the progeny not having been completed. It, there fore, in that case, names which were improperly ex cluded from the Liturgy, were restored on an ad dress of the House of Lords, he trusted that the House et Commons would prove itself not less inde pendent, nor less unwilling, to exert their right in addressing the Throne to restore her Majesty to her rights, and the country to a proper state of tranquil fear).—This Petition, as well as another to the same effect, from the Officers and Members of the Amicable Society of the town of Nottingham, was ordered to be printed. The latter prayed that no supplies should be granted until her Majesty's name was restored to the Liturgy—(Hear, hear). Mr. JERVOISE presented a similar Petition from Breden, Isle of. Wight—Ordered to be printed. Mr. HUME presented a Petition front Dundee, praying the restoration of her Majesty's name to the Liturgy, and requesting the House to give no coun tenance to those " Despots of Europe"—(!fear, hear)—who were preparing to destroy the free go vernment which was established in Naples by the na tional will.—Ordered to be printed. The same Honourable Member presented a Peti tion from the Incorporated Weavers of Leith, pray ing the restoration of her Majesty's name to the Li turgy. It was his duty to state, that this Petition was forwarded to the Right Honourable Member for Edinburgh, by the desire of the Petitioners, and that he refused to present the same to this !louse—(Hear, Ilcar).—No doubt the Right Hon. Gentleman had strong reasons for his refusal, which, perhaps, as he was present, he would now explain. Mr. W. DUNDAS, being thus called upon, said, that he had no wish whatever to refuse to present the Petition, but that the Petitioners stated to him two things, namely, their request that he would pre sent the Petition, and also give it his personal sup port. Upon this ground he refused, not because the Petition was in opposition to his opinions, for he had presented hundreds of Petitions which were quite at variance with his own sentiments. He returned the Petition, stating his opinion on the subject of it, and leaving it to the Petitioners to judge whether he was a proper person to present it. He could assure the Hon. Member that he had no desire to shut out the Petitioners iron► this House; but, as they wished him to be their advocate, and as with that wish he could not comply, he felt himself bound, as a man of ho nour, to send the Petition back—(Hear, hear). The Petition was read. Mr. HUME said, that he had no doubt the expla nation.of the Right Honourable Member, as to his own feelings, was quite correct. But he would take the liberty of reading to the House the answer which the Right Honourable Member had sent to the letter of the Petitioners. That letter contained two distinct requests—l st, that the Right Honourable Gentleman would be pleased to present the Petitien on as early a day as possible, and the Petitioners confidently hoped, that the Right Hon. Gentleman would favour them with his support. ,To this the Right Hon. Gen tleman sent an answer, which was short enough— (Hear, hear)—" I cannot present the Petition which you have forwarded to me; and should any pro position be made for the restoration of her Ma jesty's name to the Liturgy, I shall oppose it."— Loud cries of Hear, hear, from the Opposdion).— rhe litter part of this letter was candid and manly. But the House would see, that the letter of the Peti tioners did not contain two separate propositions, one most clearly not depending on the other—( Hear, hear).—He should, therefore ' leave it to the House to judge how far the answer of the Right Hon. Gen tleman was to be comidered as an unconstitutional refusal to present a Petition—(Ncat, hear). Mr. W. DUNDAS said, he was quite willing to leave it to the House—(l/ear, hear, and laughter).— Ile told the Petitioners that he would vote against the object which they had in view. Still it remained for them to judge whether they thought him a pro per person to fresent it. The Honourable Member had, therefore, left the question where it was—(lkar, hear). lie did not think that he would have been justifiable in depriving the Petitioners of the choice of the Ilotiourable Member for their advocate, who could give it peculiar support by hi s powerful a& dress, his polished language, and his persuasive man n r—(Laughter on the Ministerial Benches). Lord MILTON was of opinion that the Right lion. Gentleman's present declaration was totally at variance with his letter .to the Petitioners. In that letter he merely stated, that he would not present their Petition ; and should any motion be made for the restoration of the Queen's name to the Liturgy, he should feel it his duty to oppose it ; but not one syllable did he say with respect to his not being a proper person to be the organ of their wishes to the Ilcuse of Commons. Mr. DUNDAS thought that the declaration in the letter. was sufficiently explicit, viz. that he would not present the Petition, but would leave it to some per son who coincided with the sentiments of those who signed it—( Cries of Read!) Lord MILTON disclaimed any imputation on the Right Hon. Gentleman, which had the appearance of questioning the sincerity of his declaration. The Petition was laid on the table, and ordered to be printed. Sir R. FERGUSON presented a Petition of similar import from, the Inhabitants of the Borough of Kin ross. He observed, that to the Loyal Address which had been recently got up in the Borough, no more than 1600 signatures could be collected, although all the Public Offices had been swept for the purpose.— The present Petition, on the contrary, after having been agreed to at a Public Meeting, was signed, in the short interval of three days, by no less than 1700 names. He added, that the Petitioners very proPerly - oniitted all mention of the Liturgy, as well is most, of . the Scotch Petitions re cent ly presente d.- - }le. thank e d POD that the R e li g i on o f t h at country was subjected to no trammels ; and he believed that the ittitilbie prayer of a poor simple man was more accep',C4)le to HstavEN titan all the formace of devo tion.wb~li.wisdom of the Noble Lord's Cabinet could . prescribe! 'Lae Lora) ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND said, that he had no wish to treat the assertions of Honour able'Cientyineg on the other side of the House lightly; but, itr opposition to these assertions,. , lie must. say, that the inference which he was enabled by his ob servations to draw from the proceedings of the Peotile , of Scotland, was decidedly the reverse of that which the Honourable Gentleman opposite stated to the House, .and that the opinion of thesreat majority was in favour of the measures of Ministers. With , the exception of four County Meetings, the Addresses to the King were carried by great majorities—and not only did these majorities consist of Freeholders, but also of Justices of the Peace !—(Cheers from the Opposition). With respect to the Counter Petition of Edinburgh, he had reason to believe that it was signed several times by the same persons, giving different places of residence. Mr. KENNEDY said, he could not be silent and hear his country calumniated in that house. - The Learned Lord had said, that the majority of the peo ple and the property of Scotland was in favour of Ministers. He (Mr. Kennedy) utterly denied the statement. It was possible, indeed, that the greater part of the property of Scotland which was repre sented in that House might be in favour of the pre sent system ; but it was well known how little of the real sense of the people and wealthy classes of that kingdom was represented in the House of Commons. —This unfair representation of Scotland was en dured with the utmost impatience by that country ; and never would the discontents, not only of the lower orders, but of that class of persons which should never be spoken of without respect (the mid dling classes), cease, until the property and opinions of that parr of the Empire were fully and fairly re presented in that House--(Hear, hear). Lord BINNING would maintain that these County Meetings represented the great landed interest in Scotland, and they spoke the opinion of that interest. The Petition from the inhabitants of Edinburgh was got up in a Theatre, and was signed by all sorts of persons over and over again. He denied that the generalitY of the people t:f Scotland had any wish for Parliamentary Reform. Mr. J. P. GRANT said, it was true the Meeting alluded to was held in a Play-house, because no other place could be found large enough to hold the Meet ing. The Petition then adopted was signed by 17,000 of the male adult population of Edinburgh, praying for the removal of the King's Ministers ; and only 1,600 signed the Loyal Address. He contended that in all parts of Scotland—in parts where political dis cussion never was heard, the people were almost una nimous in their desire for Parliamentary Reform. Mr. ABERCROM BY said, all the information he had received from Scotland respecting the opinion of the people as to the proceedings against the Queen, and the - conduct of Ministers, shewed that it was hostile to both. Sir G. WARR7.NDER admitted that there had been considerable agitation among the lower orders in Scotland respecting the proceedings against the Queen ; but the landed proprietors approved, no doubt, of the conduct of Ministers. He had no doubt that Scotland would be the first part of the empire that would return to its senses on these subjects—Wear). Mr. BROUGHAM said, nine-tenths of the People of England and Scotland had loudly expressed their opinions against the conduct of Ministers ; and the remaining tenth had expressed no opinion at all. It was not to be endured by the People that they should be told by all the Ministers that they were mad ! That was not a ready way to bring them to their senses. Mr. FORBES said, ali the landholders in Scotland were Commissioners of Supply ; in that quality they might attend County Meetings. The people of Aber deen were actually canvassed in the streets to sign the Petition in favour of the Queen. Mr. HUME said, the information he had received was directly opposite to the assertion of his Hon. Friend —(Hear). Sir It. FERGUSON said, that in all the Loyal Meetings the Gentlemen Freeholders loudly declared that they had no connection with the present Minis ters. He was perfectly ready to concur in the opi nion that the landed Gentry in Scotland, who had been alluded to, adhered to the present Administra tion ; but in candour he must add, that they generally tendered the same adherence to 1:11 Administrations, whatever were their politics— ( I Aar, and a laugh. The Petition was ordered to lie on the table. Sir R. WILSON presented a similar Pe:ition from the Churchwardens, Overseers, and Inhabitants of the Parish of St. Saviour's, Southwark. That Meeting fairly represented the opinions of that large parish, and v. , as attended by many wealthy and respectable individuals, who had never before mingled in public politics. If Ministers would recommend the inser tion of her Majesty's name into the Liturgy, it would not be long before the House would adopt it. If they had given any indiscreet pledge, they had better break it, and retain their places by doing right. Mr. C. cALvERT supported the Petition. He was afraid Ministers could not open their eyes; for if they did, they would lose their places. The Petition was ordeted to lie on the table. DISFRANCHISEMENT OF GRAMPOUND. Lord JOHN MUSSEL obtained leave to bring in a Bill to exclude the Borough of Grampound horn the elective fr,inchise, and to give it to Leeds. CONTESTED ELECTIONS. Petitions were then presented, complaining of undue returns for Tregony, Boson, and Warwick; which were ordered to be taken into consideration on the 15th and 20th of February, and on the Bth of Nay. LORD REGISTRAR Of SCOTLAND. Mr. KENNEDY wished to know from the Noble Lord, what had been done with respect to the vacancy in the office of Lord Registrar of Scotland ? Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that nothing had yet been done; but when the matter came to be considered by would give due notice to the House. Mr. KENNEDY declartd the answer of the Noble Lord was perfectly satisfactory. DUBLIN GRAND JURY PRESENTMENTS. Mr. ELIAS then moved fur Accounts from the several Dis tricts of Dublin, of all sums presented to be raised by Grand Juries since January 1810 to January 1821 ; of the number of houses assessed in each district, and of the number of houses which paid the sums assessed, and of those which were returned insolvent ; also for an account of the sums assessed for paving and lighting the City of Dublin, in pursuance of the Act of Parliament; of the sums received, the sums now due, and the number of houses rearmed insolvent. MASTER OF CHANCERY IN IRELAND. Dr. Lusinmyrox begged to take tnis opportunity of asking the Hon. Member, whether be had resigned the Office of Master in Chancery, which he held in Ireland? Mr. ELLIS said, be had no objection to answer the Hon. Member, and to state, that he had not resigned that office. Dr. LUSIIINGTt ) N.—That being the case, I now give !so y tict that on the 21st of next month (February) I shall move an humble Addreu to his Majesty, requesting that his Majesty would be graciously pleased to remove the Hon. Member from his office as blaster in Chancery (Load checrsfroot the (*position). PROVISION FOR HER MAJESTY. - - Lord CASTLEREAGH, amidst the profound si lence of the House, rose t to move the Order of the Day for the House to resolve itself into a Comniittee, in order to take into consideration so much of his Majesty's most gracious Speech as related to the making of a suitable provision for the Queen. Mr. BROUGHAM rose and said, that he had re cerved her Majesty's‘' commands to present the fol loss ing Message: " CAROLINI IL—The Queen, having learned that the House of Commons has appointed this day for taking into consideration the part of the King's most gracious Speech which relates to her, deems it necessary to -declare, that *she is duly sensible of ' his Majesty's condescension in recommending an arrangement respecting her to the attention of Parliament. She is aware that this recommendation must be understood as referring to a pro vision for the support of her estate and dignity; and front what has lately pissed, she is apprehensive that such a provision may be unaccompanied by the possession of her rights and privileges in the ample measure wherein farmer Queens Consort, her Royal predecessors, have been wont in times past to enjoy them. " It is far from the Queen's inclination needlessly to throw obstacles in the way of a settlement which she desires, in com mon with the whole country, and which she feels persuaded the best interests of an parties equally require ; and being anxious to avoid everything that might create irritation, she cautiously abstains front any observation upon the unexampled predica ment in which she i> placed ; but she feels it due to the lions* and to herself respectfully to declare, that she perseveres in the resolution of declining any arrangement while her name conti nues to be excluded from the Liturgy. " Brandenburgh House, January 51, 1821." —(The reading af the •Message was followed by loud cries of Hear, Hear, from both sides of the House.) Lord CASTLEREAGH /coved, that the Speaker do leave the Chair ; and the question having been put, , Mr. WESTERN said, that had no communication been made from the Queen, he should have felt bound to resist the motion of the Noble Lord. * He, for one, on this day, would not consent to take a single step' towards granting any supply ; nothing but a change 'of meastnes, and a full explanation on the part of Ministers, could persuade him to comply w;th the terms of the proposition, that the Speaker should leave the Chair—(Hear, hear). In the first place, he would say, that he thought it was the duty of the House not to grant a farthing of the public money in the present state of the country, until a complete and comprehensive inquiry had been instituted into the expenditure, until some extensive reductions, in some degree commensurate with the extensive and universal distresses of the times, had been made (Cheers). He would now address himself to the ques tion of the vote which the House was about to give, and he entreated the attention of Honourable Mem bers to the situation in which they stood. One of his Majesty's Ministers had avowed his intention of moving this night for a grant to her Majesty the Queen ; but the House would recollect that the Noble Lord, when he gave that notice, had most unjustly taken occasion to say, that her Majesty was in his opi nion guilty of the charges that had been brought against her—Wear, hear). The Noble Lord had said, that though her Majesty had obtained a tech. nical acquittal, she had been virtually convicted— (Hear, hear)—convicted on the verdict of 123 Peers, and nut only of them, but also Of some other NOble Lords, who had voted against the Bill for reasons of ' policy and expediency, but had, at the same time de dared that, in their opinion, she was guilty. Thus the Noble Lord, in the same breath, had dared to pronounce the Queen of this country guilty . of adul tery, and to announce his intention Of coming - doWn to this House, to propose a grant to her Majesty. What were the People of England to think of a nister who acted in so inconsistent and unaccountable a manner? The indictment having been withdrawn, and that act being on every prinCiple of justice equi valen: to a verdict of acquittal, was it to be allowed that any individual, either in that House or out of doors, should charge her with the crime of adultery ? —(Hear, hear).—World such a charge, or would it not, be a libel, if uttered out of that House? And did any man pretend to say, that the late proceed ings against her Majesty would authorise the Noble Lord to say without the walls of Parliament, that she was guilty of adultery ?—(Cheeri).—lt he would not be authorised to say so out of doors, he (Mr. Western) contended that, in common sense, or in common justice, the Noble Lord had no right to use such language itt that House—(('heers).—lf such a right to traduce her Majesty really existed in conse quence of the late proceedings, then he would say that the Bill of Pains and Penalties was a thousand times worse than he had ever imagined it to be ; for although it had been withdrawn, it would appear that the punishment which it enacted was still to be enforced—(l/ear, hear, hear).—He did nut know with what motion he ought to meet that of the Noble Lord, but it appeared to him that perhaps the most proper amendment would be, " That the House do now adjourn !”—(Cheers). Lord CAsTLEREAGH now rose, and delivered himself in a manner which indicated peculiar warmth. If he understood rightly the object of the Honour able Member who had spoken last, it was that the House should not consent to the Vote of Supply re commended in his Majesty's Speech, till they bad taken into consideration all the financial affairs of the country, taken an accurate view of all our embarrass• ments, referred to every circumstance connected with the public distress which was complained of, and, in short, adverted to every topic connected with the public expenditure. But he wished the Honourable Member to recollect, that this motion involved one specific object, and it by no means included the vari ous considerations relating to the supply of the year, which, notwithstanding the anticipations of Honour able Gentlemen opposite, would be found to impose no new burdens on the People—(llene, hear). It appeared that the Honourable Member would • not wish the House to entertain a particular point, which involved what that Honourable Member considered a particular grievance, till the whole question with regard to our Agricultural and Commercial Interests was disposed of—(llear, hcar)—and that, too, in a manner perfectly satisfactory to his mind—( Cries of No! no!).—He certainly understood the . nourable Member in that sense, and in that sense he believed him to have been understood by the majo- , rity of the House. But, with respect to the Queen not accepting any money that might be . voted, till fier name was restored to the Liturgy, he (Lord Castle reagh) thought that it was quite discretionary With on f r Z to abstain from accepting it, if s h e thought Drmee „ . 1 There were not many instanc es of pers(ms••••• luctant to receive motley ; but th e Queen was a g t. those persons. She WAS perfectly at liberty eril°4 stilt her own feelings on the subject—H /014% That, however, was not the question u bid) !he h o t had now to decide upon. Th e common, cati her Majesty Was in every resp ect censuntbk. 4; ought to know that a Queen C onsort i n this o ' 0,,,,. owed nothing in the way of a prov i,i on to p. 2, meat—she owed everything to the Csote n . 11 7;7 therefore, she sent a communication to th e H i ? stating that she would not recei ve any money ti: might be voted to her, till her name was restored,. the Liturgy, she was travelling i nto t h e sante ucci." stitutional proceedings which m ai k e d t h e whole ar her conduct—(Loud cries of Hear, hear, and orde order, from the Opposition Lienchrs). Y es, he woaj repeat it, she seas acting upon the same sy steni 7 l defiance to his Majesty which had characteris e d t i t whole of her proceeJings—(Hrr, henry. sh e a peared prepared to di s p u te w i t h t h e Ki ng the 4 4, fiance of his subjects ; and even made so f reeasie call the People of England he r subjects—Wm... that had been familiarly made use of by S o me 7, SODS who had espoused i '.r cat...se— Mr. WETI I E11.F.1.1, and Mr. I 1i..."M E both rogentbe moment to call the Noble Lord to order. Great confaal mf "' II wailed, and Mr. WETERELf, wlu 1911.1iy called f or . iee. Mr. NV ET Il Eli E1..1.--' , I rise to order. The At tame ,. General supposed m e to h a v e s t i : e d i n a former deb at e - r" (Order, order!) Lord CAS'i'LEREAGII—L" I ell! lie Learned G e w alt to order"--(Cries /Choir, ierryport of Ike Ha ut). The SPEAKEtt—" I b the House to hear what tie Lea (ebtleinan (Mr. Viol:tr.:a) i, about to say 0 2t h elailt of order"—flfear, bear). Mr. WILTIIEB.EI.I.- " The icehle Lord attribute' ts., the statement, that the subjects of the King owe allesin c , the Queen afro. Pappeal to the House if, on the mask s lulled to, I did not repel the charge, and state that I WC % misunderstood?' The SNEAKER—" Strictly 61/Caking, it is certainly dim, derly to :diode to any former debate. 1 may not knel le d the Noble Lord distinctly; but, as I understood his ok er ,,, tion, I did slot think that he alluded to the llotmurable sol Learned Gentleman. The offensive remark appears tasks be rather a matter for explanation, than for interruption e point of order. Mr. IV ETIIERRI.I.--" The point ow which I call the YieP a Lord to oreer, is his attributing to me expressions which I►sa before stated that I never used." Mr. lIUME.—" Let the Noble Lord say what beam s . and in language that will enable us to know what lie'siree„. (" atair,thair"). The SPEAKER —" Every allowance is to be made fares, passions used in the warmth of debate, and I am tore lionouraSle and Learned Gentleman will excuse use for says rg that nothing is more disc derly than rising to order hypo,. tically."—(Hear, hear). Mr. FIUME.—" I think the Noble Lord is disotderlyieth conduct which he attribut.s to her Majesty. Ile says , tk x h f Majesty is traveling into ut.cerstistational errors in this, a s k all her other proceedings, and we have heard of nothing wi n subjects, both in this [louse an I elsewhere. These-areas* his words, and I now call on to state his authority." The SPEAKER.—" The Howe will readily perceive the the appeal now made is not strictly a question of order." ' Lord CASTLEREAGH resumed; had he bas allowed to proceed without interruption, he thou,* he would have given the House to understand, die he was not out of order, and that it was perfectly •, competent to him to offer the observations be had made. It was too • much, for the Honourable Meniher under therallery. (Mr. Hume), to dillies to order, even admitting that in the warmth of de moment, he had made use of the expressions reknit to—(lleisr)—foi be•bad yerto learn that theione reignty of the QUeen was so completely established in this House es.to preclude her name being intro duced and commented • Lyon by any Honourable Member. , —(Loud exits of Hear, hear).--ile httd set imputed to her - Majesty any views or motives site out foundation: - lie had good gro • unds for evey thing he said. At the same :.,me he would rear admit that the Honourable Member was much mole in her Majesty's confidence than he (Lord Ca'ls. reagh) could pretend to be: 7 He had not, like the 'Honourable Member, ever travelled about frey place to place, with the literary productions of ha Majesty, in the shape of Answers to Addresses— which, by the way, seemed to .shew that the Has 'Member had known something of them before the were put forth in print, and distributed among ' Majesty's e affectionate subjects:' The House wall see many instances, in the several answers returnedbl the Queen to the Addressei she had received, the she called the people of England her subjects. Ile answer to the Dover Address had these words- 14 1 hope the time will come when it will be jam pow to pro Mote the interests of nr3 subjects;" and, in the mautier, the Queen said she w - ould always coma e the happi.•ess of her subjects, the good peoplei Caaterbury.° But in what way would she amen the happiness of all these her good and lovingalh jects ? AVlry, by subverting the Constitution of di Realm—by destroying everything that was valias and revered, in order to bring about that Parham , . tary Reform which was so much talked of—(8e• peated cries y . Hear, hear).—liu r reverting to the el° tion before the House, surely they would not elk themselves to he dictated to by the Queen? It'll' not for her to make conditions with the House, asse the terms upon which she would consent to recite any money that was to be assigned to her by them berality of the Crown. They were net here to discos the points urged in the communication from the Glue's • but to take into consideration a particular subjectrt commenled to their attention in his ALjesty's Speech. It rested with the Crown to apply the sum voted by Parliament, it remained with the green either to eel cept or refuse. the money offered' her. The Woe* would see how her Majesty's conduct upon this acs' • sion tent from•step to step in her endeavours to che .. stroy the Constitution. In the it i ns t anc e she sad !she we aid receive no money from the Ministers of the I Crown, and now she refused to aeeeet it from Patricia. He should be glad to know if she wm, not consent to 'accept a pecuniary provi ten, till was placed in a Royal Palace, and had all her riper as she ter Med it, granted to her—in , pert, if she rd not to acquiesce, for that was the pla in Ea t,elisha the matter, tilt she had the King"; , 1314 her feet ? Hot ti,:s she ghoul) never have, if ke CO help ie--,(llair, hear, head, .Ivhile;lc. hadposet act, the feelings of the 3loi:iirc! , not bee it ., raged, MA-, should the Royal ateiority oee ~, daringly invaded —(Hear, hear): _lle well taw tel s object of the Ilorroueable Gentlemen opp, eite jeer • posing this' motion, and he e•a it, i glad he knew r ., he would' never ' heed to thelre.be %A - reed now N ei them: openly and feirrlesslf.. What could the 11 0 Merner for Essex IMr. Wettern).mean sayi4.Ul,_l2 he would not vote any supply till helAijesttilow th N Ca . . -