Star. — London, England, 1821-06-22 00:00:00

- . Officers of the Crown would now give their attention sink! proceedingisaf this Society. bENIRAT. DESFOORNEAUX . CLAIM. Mr. BROGDEN presented the Minutes of Evi dence taken before the Committee appointed to con sider the claims of this individual. Mr. GRENFELL took this opportunity of repeat ing all his former arguments against this claim. Mr. MARRYATT also opposed this claim ; he had large connections with Guadeloupe, and had been there, yet had never heard of these claims of Gene ral Desfourneaux. An Hon. Friend of his, who sat near him, was in the same situation, and therefore he could not but look at this claim with a suspicious eye.—The Paper's . were ordered to be printed. AFFAIRS OF SICILY. Lord WILLIAM BENTINCK rose to submit the motion of which he had given notice respecting the affairs of the kingdom of Sicily. The Noble Lord began by observing that he felt very great pain in bringing orward the present question, from his re collections of the country to which it referred. He was well aware that it would be better advocated by many Members in the House ; but it was impossible that it could be transferred to any Member with that weight and authority which it deserved, fromhis lo cal knowledge and experience. Nor could airy other Member have the same feeling and interest with re spect to the question that he had who witnessed the cordial co-operation of the Sicilians in the cause of liberty—(Cheers). The Noble Lord then proceeded to comment on the severe treatment which the Sici lians had met with from the Neapolitan Government, after the country was evacuated by the British troops. The motion which he had to propose was not, it was true, in accordance with the spirit of the Holy Alli ance, or the Laybach Manifesto ; yet, if antiquity could be urged in favour of political rights, the peo ple were placed on equal terms with the Allied Sove reigns—(Hear, hear). He could assure the House that it was not from any solicitation on the part of the Sicilians that he brought the subject under con sideration ; but from a sense of what he owed both to them and himself, in consequence of the pledges he had formerly given. It was with the deepest re gret he found himself obliged to declare that a more complete annihilation of freedom had never taken place in any country than had occurred in Sicily on the re-establishment of the old Neapolitan Govern ment. 'The loss of liberty was followed with injus tice, cruelty, and oppression, to a degree from which the mind of every feeling man must revolt—( Hear). The Noble Lord next adverted to the occurrences of 1805, when the King was driven out of Naples, and sought refuge in Sicily, under the protection of an English force. He contended that the Neapolitans had never shewn the same zeal in defence of their country that the Sicilians evinced. In the year 1808, when the Neapolitans received a subsidy of I:300,000, what return did they make for it to the British Go vcrnment ? Nothing but distrust, and even positive hostility—(Hear). At that time, when Murat was about making a descent upon Sicily, Sir John Stew art could only get a single regiment of Neapolitan cavalry to join him ; while the Sicilians voluntarily offered themselves to repel the invaders. The Noble Lord iheu referred to the old Constitution which Si cily had enjoyed for centuries; and though he was aware it would bear no nice comparison with that which other more favoured countries possessed, yet at least it established the claim of the Sicilians to their independent existence as a separate Govern ment ; it entitled them to have a Constitution of their own, and a Parliament of their own. While the Par liament sat it had the superintendence of the public money, and it had the power of appointing a Depu tation of Senators, who had the superintendence of the public money during the intervals of its Sessions. Such was the Constitution which the Sicilians en joyed when, in 1810, the Barons agreed to surren der up their old feudal rights, and established a Par liament of tn o Houses like those of Great Britain. They further agreed, that whenever they were un der the necessity of departing from the spirit of their own Constitution, they would adopt the principles of that which Great Britain enjoyed. Thus things went on down to 1813, 1811., and 1815, when the King of the Two Sicilies resumed the reins of Government, and renewed his oath to preserve the Constitution. About the Ist of May in the folic:ming year, Murat left Naples, and the King went there. But pre viously to hisleaving Sicily a memorandum was left there in 1315, to the same effect as the instructions which were sent out in that year by the Noble Lord to the British Minister. Of these instructions he in every respectapproved, and if he had had the framing of them himself; they could not have been more con formable to his ideas. The instructions were received in Sicily about the end of l)ecember, and it would shew how far they were attended to by the King, that they were soon followed by a Decree of his Ma jesty uniting the two countries—thus abolishing al together the Constitution and all the rights and pri vileges of the Sicilians—(Hear, hear). Sicily was thus made a province of Naples, and this relation ss as the more degrading and painful, as it could not be concealed that the greatest antipathy had always prevailed between the two countries. Even in the hue events their interests were totally opposed.— The insurrection in 6icily differed altogether in its object from that of Naples. All the Sicilians wished for was the reservation cf their original iiedependence, and this very fully appeared from a pamphlet which General Church had lately published in his own jus tification ; and he was happy to say, that, in his opi nion, it established in a very satisfactory manner that gallant Officer's innocence throughout the course of those transactions. In that publication he acknow ledged that he had refused to join in the cry of Mire In Conxtitazione ! But he justified himself in that refusal fiorn the well-known feelings of the Sicilians ; for, lie said, " everybody knew that for a great length of time the Sicilians were desirous of a change, and that the discontent was profound and general." After some further remarks, the Noble Lord said that his great object was to regain for the Sicilians those great privileges which this country had acquired for them, and he concluded with moving-- " That an bumble Address be presented to his Majesty, re presenting to him that we feel greatly mortified in learning that attempts have been.made by the King of the Two Siciliei to re duce the privileges and rights of the Sicilians to such a state as would expose the British Government to the reproach of having contributed to a change which would impair the freedom and happiness of the Sicilians ; and we therefore pray his Majesty's interference in such manner as the honour and good faith of this absolutely requircs.".--(l.lcar, khk, The Marquis of LONDONDERRY was ready to admit the competence of the Noble Lord to come forward with a motion relative to transactions with which he had so great a personal acquaintance; but observed that it was now rather too late to call on Parliament to interfere and pronounce a judgment upon them. After a period of six years had elapsed since those transactions had occurred, he did not think it would be wise in the British Parliament to act upon the Noble Lord's representation, and to incite his Majesty's interposition between the Government of Naples and the wishes of the Sicilian people. If the transactions of which the Noble Lord complained were erroneous, he should have come forward at the time, and Parliament would then have been called upon to consider them at a time when the measures of the Neapolitan Government were open to qualifi cation; but, besides the period that had since elapsed, there was another reason for dissuading the House from entering into the consideration of these transac tions now, when Sicily was about to undergo another organization. What the precise mode of that new organization was to be, he did not as yet distinctly know, but as far as he was acquainted with it, the Government of Sicily was to be a separate Govern ment, and altogether distinct ftom that of Naples. Five years had gone by since the change of which the Noble Lord complained had taken place, and he had waited to bring forward that complaint until Si cily was upon the pint of undergoing another change. How far the projected dissolution. of the union which bad now existed for some years, would be satisfactory /o the people of Sicily, he could not answer. Ile believed, that although both in Scotland and Ireland persons might be found, from motives of national pride, to wish for the separate existence of their revective countries, yet that generally a great reluctance would be felt to undo a union that was found so serviceable to both countries. He persuaded himself that in Ireland they had made rapid strides in finding out that there might be combinations of government which were more conducive to the li berty of the people than insulated governments. But with respect to the Sicilians, they were about to en joy again the blessing, if such they deemed it, of a separate government, and therefore it would be pe coliarly unwise to institute any proceedings with re ference to a mode of administration which, perhaps at this moment, was no longer in existence. As to our connection with Sicily, it should be remembered, that though we had always felt a lively interest in the freedom and happiness of that country, yet, that in taking military occupation of it, we were governed by motives of expediency, in order to form a harrier against the strides of French dominion—a barrier hich, from the insular position of Sicily, was mote within the power of our natural resources. We were also induced to do so, in order to protect the Royal Family, and from a hope that an opportunity might occur of operating upon the continent of Italy, so as to shake the extent of Fi ench influence there. In a similar way we had possession of Portugal. Vl'e had given no express assurance or guarantee to Sicily of teeming to it any particular form of government, though circumstances rendered a chaage in their mode of government necessary ; and a Constitution was certainly formed, somewhat upon the plan of our own. While our at my remained in Sicily, there was undoubtedly a necessity for some intervention on our part, in order to enable the Government of the island to go on, and to preserve it in a state of defence against the common enemy. It was equally true that in consequence of this inevitable necessity, the Noble Lord opposite was mixed up with many strong remonstrances, the object of which was to secure the tiefin.ive strength of the island : but neither the No ble Lord, nor his Majesty's Government, was there fore understood to have virtually contracted any obligation as to the future government of Sicily. He would not now disguise that the Noble Lord on those occasions was placed in situations of great difficulty. Nor could he conceal that the Government at home felt itself frequently much embarrassed ; for it was naturally painful to an independent Power to have a foreign army in its garrisons, interfering with every movement of its domestic government—(llear). , These things were, however, matters of histot y, and he would not go into their merits farther than to de clare, that, as far as he could judge of,a Constitution, he never saw one less suited to a people than the Constitution which was established in Sicily under the Noble Lord's sanction. There was no one point of union more decidedly adopted throughout Sicily, from the Crown down to the lowest peasant, than that that Constitution could not stand. Although in the number of its Chambers their Patliament.imi tated ours, yet he could not pay it the homage to say that it resembled that of Great Britain in any other respect. As far as the rule and the compass could make a Constitution, therefore, the people of Sicily had one; but a more imperfect one, considering the circumstances, and character, and habits of the peo ple, never,- he believed, was produced. The Noble' Lord himself must have felt this, since at every turn he felt himself under the necessity of having recourse to military interference. In 1814, Sir Wm. A'Court was authorised to make explanations to the people, to account for the exercise of that authority which we had used, to open the eyes of the people, and to spew them that it was for their own preservation that authority had been so put in force; and also to say that the moment was then approaching when our army would evacuate the island. But no declaration as to the mode of future Government was made.— Some changes were indeed strongly recommended, but they were also recommended to be worked out by means of the Constitution. A reform was re commended, but not by means of an army. The Parliament had employed itself for twelve months in the work of reform, but without any effect, and at last the two Houses addressed the Cro.vn to appoint a Commission. After a good deal of time was lost, the Royal Commission was named, and he believed that they made some progress. But even with the Commission the ancient privileges of the Sicilians were never talked of. The amendment and adapta tion of the Constitution of 1812 were their whole object, yet they did nothing effectually ; and finally, they were superseded by a Council of State, which was equally inefficient. So that, unless the Noble, Lord was prepared to say that old Chaos should be re-established in his empire, it •was necessary that, something should be done, in order to carry on the Government. The instructions given to Sir Wm. A'Court had met the approbation of the Noble Lord ; and when that Minister left Sicily in 1816, it was never thought of that it was incumbent upon ns to make a Constittition for that Island. The making of a Constitution for any country was the last act which he hoped a British Government would ever do— (Hear, hear). It was a responsibility which, more than any other act whatever, would make our name odious abroad ; and he for one would always raise his voice against our making Constitutions for other' countries—(Hear, hear). Such interposition was, in general, more likely to be defeated than to be suc cessful ; and when the Noble Lord at the head of 25,000 men could not make his voice to be heard within the Palace of the King, he could scarcely now expect that the voice of the House of Commons could be heard there—(Hear, hear). With respect to the instructions which were sent to Sir William A'Court, he had to state, that no instructions would have been sent to him, if a communication had not been previously received from the Neapolitan Go vernment that some change was intended, and they asked advice and assistance of his Majesty's Govern ment on the subject. Ministers replied, that they were totally incompetent to form a judgment as to the fitness of a Constitution for the people of Sicily, and they did not wish to take the responsibility of it upon them. At the same time they felt it to be their duty towards the Sicilian people to make two re serves. The first of these had not been touched on ' by the Noble Lord, and therefore he would not dwell upon it. But it was rendered unnecessary by the re port which Sir William A'Court had made, who stated that all the higher offices of the Sicilian Go- vernment were to be filled by all the most distin guished characters in the island who had been in connection with the British Government. He con fessed that when he had signed the instructions, he had believed that if the offices in the Government had not been so filled, there would have been no end to the persecution of individuals, on account of the extent of private claims, and he did not look forward to many applications of a painful nature. But, with the exception of General Romeo's case—a case which stood entirely on its own merits—he was happy to say, that there had not been a single complaint made to him from Sicily, down to the very hour at which he was now addressing the House—(Hear, hear).' fle could not go. quite so far as to pay homage to the Noble Lord in his character of supreme judge of ' the liberties of the people of Sicily ; and seeing that he had received no credentials from them to come to this House—that a period of six years had elapsed since the form of the Constitution had been substan tially changed, and that Sicily was now on the eve of becoming again independent, he could not conceive what possible utility could result from this motion. The spirit of the second reserve was this, that his Ma jesty's Ministers kept to themselves the power of in terference, so far as to preserve to the people of Sicily', their ancient rights. The Noble,Lord, indeed, sup posed those rights to be the most perfect of their kind. They had, it was true, a Parliament, which never met un!s!ss merely to impose taxes; and per haps they had the power of removing some griev ances, by annexing that removal as the condition of giving the supplies—(Hear, hear). —But whether those ancient rights were few or many, the " reserve" connected with them was not to be considered as a perpetual obligation upon this country. It was made only with a view to the change which was then im pending, and it was only incumbent upon the British Government to see that the Sicilians did not lose their ancient rights by our occupation of their island. We were not to assume, in consequence, a general and permanent jurisdiction over the affairs of Sicily —(h fear, hear).—As to the changes that had been made in 1816, the instructions sent to Sir W. A'Court with r espect to them were of such a nature as to ob tain the approbation of the Noble Lord himself, for he had the goodness to endorse them. There was no reason to suppose that Sir W. A'Court had made a wrong use of those instructions, for he was an indi vidual of great knowledge—indeed of as great know ledge as any individual he had ever had occasion to communicate with. That Minister had seen nothing in the conduct of the Neapolitan Government to ex cite the jealousy of this Government. No design was seen on the part of the King to aim covertly at the liberties of the people. Indeed, his Government would have been glad to get his Britannic Majesty's Ministers to make a Constitution for Sicily; "but no," said we; " we have burnt our fingers already; there is no obligation upon us to interfere in this mat ter." Arid, in his opinion, they acted with proper caution in not wishing to involve the Sovereign, and 'the great people over whom he presided, in the disgrace which was likely to wait on such interposi tion, if it had been resolved upon. Sir W. A'Court, indeed, was asked to give his advice as a private friend, and he did attend several Councils in that ca pacity, without being at all officially responsible for what he said or did. But now, when not a vestige of that system, perhaps, remained, which the Noble Lord reprobated, it was easy to conceive how ridiculous such an interference would be as that which he de sired. Ile (the Marquis of Londonderry) did not by any means wish to advocate the system which had been established in Sicily after the events of 1816; but the question was, did it deteriorate the ancient privileges of the Sicilians to such an extent as to jus tify the British Government in using an interference which they were not actually bound to use? He did not mean to say that there was nothing objectionable in the Government of Sicily, but he conceived that the Ministers of this country were incapable of judg ing in detail of an administrative system applied to Sicily. Here the Noble Marquis read a Report from Sir W. A'Court, which was sufficient, in his opinion, to quiet the apprehensions of this Government as to any danger of re-action. It was also manifest, and even acknowledged by the Carbonari, in one of the first papers they had published, that the Government of the King of Naples was administered in a spirit of great mildness. He had now made a general de fence for his Majesty's Ministers. He would now look upon it as a general transaction—one which was to be examined as such, and not inquired into with the microscopic eye of constitutional criticism. He would hold, that there was nothing in the change which took place in 1816 injurious to the dignity or interests of the Sicilians, which could, awaken the alarm of the British Government, pledged as they were to the maintenance of the rights and liberties of that people, as they found them at the period of our military occupation of the Island. So far did he believe was the change from bringing degradation upon them ; that it was his decided opinion they were ' elevated by it. The union of the two Crowns wa s effected in the same spirit as the union of Scotland with this country—the principle of the latter measu re being, that the Scotch should keep what they already had, and as much more as could he obtained from the other parts of the Empire 1--(A /arc,c4),_ ; . Not only was there no diminution, as resulting - f rog the change, of the rights and privileges of the Sc.i Hans, such as they enjoyed them when the Britid e troops landed in Sicily, and to the maintenance o r which the British faith was pledged, but they, the Ministers, saw that it had improved the condition et that people, by its bringing about the abolicionof the feudal rights, and in that respect purified the stated the country, as compared with the period of eoe military occupation of the island. He had the n 00 . thing to reproach himself with, in surveying th e po , licy which the British Ministry pursued in reg ar d to Sicily. He had, he hoped, :hewn that they h a d nee departed from the pledges which they had given to the Sicilian people—that none of the conditions o p eo which they surrendered up the island had bees broken; or at least that no complaint but one b ai l reached our Government, which in any mannered* for their interference. There was then no ground far the motion of the Noble Lord; and if ever there wu ground, it was infinitely too late, as the very s y steo proposed to be reformed, he believed had now ceased to exist—(licar, hear). Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH said he should con. sult his own interest, and perhaps the feelings o f the House, better by observing silence' upon this o sca . sion ; and he certainly should not have troubled du House had it not been that he had already taken as active pant in the affairs of Sicily, and had it net been also for some of the remarks of the Noble Lad who had just sat down—(Heal).—lle agreed with his Noble Friend who opened the subject, that no question called more loudly for explanation from the Executive part of the Government—none tint more set iously demanded the attention of every Member of that House, than one which related to the honour and good faith of this country, as displayed in our connection with Foreign States. He fully agreed in • this opinion, and so feeling he should 'support this motion, and the more so, because the question of honour and good faith-arose out of obligations wins. tarily contracted on our part with the Sicilian people, He was fully.content to take his stand upon the de. claration of the Noble Marquis, in his letter to Se William A'Court, in 1816. He approved of its cow tents. It was the violation of the principles it es► braced that he now complained of. This was lis charge against the Noble Lord—that he departed from the principles which he had voluntarily laid down—(Hear).—He had a few objections to the pre. liminary matter of the Noble Marquis. His Lord• ship, in speaking of the change which took placeia Sicily in 1816, was pleased to say, that it was effected in the spirit of the Scotch Union, the principled which was, he said, to leave the Scotch all the good things they had—few indeed as they were, and what. ever else could be obtained by them from other parts of the Empire—(Hear).—lle (Sir James Mackintosh) was almost led to believe that a tacit condition of a similar nature was understood in the Union with Ireland, and that quite as remarkable a monopoly of office was retained by the Irish after that measure as could be attributed to the Scotch alter the period of their union with this country. He, for one, did' ot complain of such a result, and he would rather deea it one of the best proofs of the entire amalgamation of the countries by the process of a union —(Hear). —But he was somewhat surprised to hear the Noble Lord attempting to introduce a comparison between the union of free States with one another. The re• duction into one of two imperfect limited monarchies, was a measure which put down one nation into the -rank of a province, and subjected it to the power of a despotic government—(Hear).—The Noble Marquis stated that this motion was too late, because the sys• tern, he said, which it proposed to improve had al- ready ceased to exist. • The Noble Marquis seemed to forget the grounds and purpose of the motion.... His Noble Friend knew perfectly well.all the changes which had taken place in Sicily ; he was on the spot and saw them. But did he know anything of the pledges given by the British Ministers to the Sicilian people? Did he know the engagements of the Noble Lord until he saw them on the table of that House? and which, being exposed, called upon him to make this motion—(Hear). — The Noble Lord denied that any instruction had been given to Sir Wm. A'Court, but what confined him to stipulate for the evacuation of Sicily, upon *the terms that the people of that island were not to be placed in a worse condition than they were in at the period of the occupation by our army. But was there no secret understanding be tween the high parties—no remonstrances—no ner ciation? 'He would appeal to the papers on the table. They contained some expressiow, such as the words " assurances of the King of Naples," which were utterly unintelligible, unless by the supposition that something like representations, or remonstrance , had taken place. . But the Noble Marquis had said that no complaint had reached the British Govern ment from the Sicilian people (except in one instant!) of the new order of things in 1816, and thereforttt was to be believed that they entirely acquiesced is the new Government, and- had no cause to rert that it had been placed over them. Now did the Noble MarqUis mean that universal silence was a evidence of universal satisfattion ? Might not that silence be the result of fear, distrust, and despair?'" , distrust in the good intention of England—far al the resentment of their own angry Goveriurt -- and despair, the natural result of their hating n° confidence in the integrity of a country which h p aa . been hitherto the only resource of the persecut ed : every land—(Hear, hear). —If universal silence w a roof of universal satisfction, they , I hare migit in abundance from Siberia, a from Tartary, and wr. remote and barbarous territories—(ffear).— Was i t not natural that the Sicilians should withdra w a ' confidence from the British Ministry, which had . fered its own Officer, acting upon its own instroci tions, to be refused entrance into Naples in 1 815 a_ the grounds that he had committed acts which werc sanctioned by themselves ? The Sicilians w i‘ nest ! , this treatment of the noble person—they witness ed the silent acquiescence of the Ministers in the in s w —they saw the new principles set up by the C 0, 1 1 2. land; and was it possible, with all this befor et of Vienna, and introduced into the Cabinet .r• 116 eyes, that they could be induced to expect any ncrt. e t by stating their grievances to, and applying for