Star. — London, England, 1810-01-27 00:00:00

I P4ALIAMENTARr PROCIEDINGI HOUSE OF COMMONS, JANUARY 26. - , On the motion of Mr. ROSE. Copies were ordered to be lai rs before the House of the Memorials presented to the Lords Com missioners of the Treasury respecting the architectural and other improvements about the Houses of Parliament. On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER , It was ordered that the Chaplain of the House do preach a Sermon before the House, in the Church of St. Mar.a ret's, Westminster, on Tuesday next, the 30th instant, being the e Anniversary of King Charles's Martyrdom. On the motion of Mr. GEORGE JOHNSTONE, an Account was ordered to be laid before the House of the number of Bills and Promissory Notes reissued, distinguishing the Rates of the Duties upon them, from ,:th January, 1798, to the latest period to which the same could be made out. Sir J. NEW brought in a Bill to prevent the Embezzle pent of the Public Money by Collectors, Receivers, &c.— Read a first time, ordered to be print, d, and to be read a second time 03 Wednesday next. PRIVATE RILLS. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose, in conse- I quence of the notice which he hadgiven, to propose to the House a limitation to the period for receiving petitions for private Bills,. and for the various stages of private Bills when intro duced. "I'he experience which for some years the House had en joyed of the advantage of such a limitation, rendered it unneces sary for him to say any thing on that part of the subjeet.— He should confine himself, therefore, to an explanation of the difference between the proposition which he was about to make, and those which on former occasions he had submitted to the House. At the commencement of the last Session he had pro- posed the Bth May as the limit for the ultimate stage of a private Bill, i. e. the reception of the Report. It was his intention now to propose the 7th May as that limit, being a difference of only one day in the limit of the climate step. The alteration that he bad In view was to diminish the period hitherto allowed for the reception of petitions for private Bills, in order to extend the sub tent stages of those Bills, and thus to give the adverse panics oc Bills a more ample opportunity of examining ard oppo 'ieir previsions. He should therefore propose three Reso ,, viz. 'hat the House would not receive any Petitions for private ter Friday, the 9th February next." ;hat the House would not receive any private Bills afters' inday, the 19th March next." - That the House would nut receive any Reports of private %ter Nlonday, the 7th May next." rould be observed, that the period for the reception of pri hills would, by these Resolutions, be extended a fortnight, to period for receiving reports of private Bills a week id the correspondent periods of the antecedent year. RO . iE expressed his apprehension, that the tern , proposed Right Hon. Friend for the reception of Petitions for private would, in some cases, he insufficient. CHANCEL: OR ssf the EXCHF.QT.IER replied, that it desirable to establish is a general principle, that the Petitions be presented within the period which he had mentioned. ises of peculiar difficult y, the House would, of course, listen the circumstances that might be alledged for an extension of period, and determine accordingly. he Resolutions were then agreed to, and ordered to be REVERSION RILL. BANKS, finding that there were two other i zcts of importance to be discussed by the House evening, withdrew his notice of a motion for 'e to bring in a bill to render the Reversion Bill ast session perpetual, in order to fix it for another • ; a delay to which he was the more strongly in iced, from understanding that it was a proposition ich unfortunately was likely to produce debate.— , however, the subject was one of much urgency the existing bill would *Ore in six weeks after commencement of the session) he should not de his motion longer than Monday next. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER served, that there were already two notices on the -der Book for Monday, both of which would pro excite discussion. He wished therefore that Right Honourable Friend would fix on some sub pent day. With respect to any supposed urgency the measure, it could scarcely be imagined to tatever perio d motios might be delayed—even !re it poste' for to the expiration of the existing bill, it his Majesty's Ministers would take any step by lich the principle of that bill might be violated. He mid oppose the bal to be proposed by his Right )nourable Friend, because he wished only to sus nd the power which that bill would go to abolish. his Right Honourable Friend had no objection he )uld recommend Wednesday as the day on which might bring forward his proposition. Mr. BANKS acceded, and Wednesday was swcor tgly fixed for his motion. Loan Lord COCHRANE said, that understanding it Is the intention of his Majesty's Ministers to pro pose on Monday next the thanks of that House to ord Gambier, he telt it his duty to move for the vvious production of the Minutes of the Court 'irtial which had been held on that Noble Lord ;- 4 he pledged himself to prove from those minutes, tot only that 'Tie SPEAKER interrupted the Noble Lord. If le Noble Lord were going to give notice of a mo vn, it was irregular to enter into any detail. It; iwever, it was his intention to submit a motion t) le House at that time, it would be for the House to !termine whether or not they would maintain the ;age which had prevailed of giving previous notice if such an intention. Mr. PONSONDY observed, that he certainly un terstood that the Noble Lord meant to make an im aediate motion. The ordinary usage of giving notice was not applicable in the present case ; for as the thanks were to be moved on Monday, and as the House was not accustomed to sit ofi Saturday, the Noble Lord had no other opportunity of making his motion than the present. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ieclared, that if the motien of the Noble Lord re lated to the production of, the sentence only of the Court Martial on Lord Gambier, he had no objcc ;on whatever to it ; but if it extended to the minutes )1 that Court Martial, he was decidedly of opinion, Oat a proposition to reconsider the trial of an officer in a case of life and death, was of too much impor • nice to be acceded to without at least due time for Consideration. Mr. 'TIERNEY remarked, that the Noble Lord had taken the earliest opportunity that presented it. lelf to hint to make this motion, after having been Ipprised that it was the intention of the Right Hon. Gentlemur opposite to propose a vote of thanks to Lord Gambier. He thought the best way would be 'or that Right Honourable Gentleman to postpone ia motion to a future day. As to the sentence of the Court Martial, he did not conceive that, unac companied by the minutes of evidence, it would be sufficient for the House. That sentence pronounced Lord Gambier not guilty, but it did not follow that he minutes of evidence fnight not strew that his Lord 41iip was not entitled W 410 aperQbatios cif l'arl4- petit. The CHANCELLOL• he tXCII said, that if the Noble Lord would postpone his tisn-1 tion until Monday, and the House should then think that the minutes of the trial ought to be produced, he would postpone his motion for thanks. If the lionse should determine that the sentence alone should be laid on the table, he would take care that it should be immediately forthcoming. Lord COCHRANE acquiesced in this arrange ment. On the production of thesedocumens the would pledge himself to prove, that The SPEAKER again intetrupted the N oble I Lord, observing, that he understood it to be the sense of the House, that the Noble Lord should not, at pre ! sent, enter into any details, but should confine him self simply to a notice. j Lord COCHRANE accordingly gave notice, that on Monday he would move for the production of the i minutes of the Court Martial on Lord Gambier. LICENSES FROM TIIF. BOARD OF TRADE. On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, the House went into the consider ation of the Speech of the Lords Commissioners. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved a resolution of the House « that a supply be granted to his Majesty." Mr. CREEVEY wished to make some observa tiorson that part of the Speech which related to the supply. After an observation from the SPEAKER with re spect to the irregularity of any discussion on a gene ral motion for granting a supply to his Majesty, Mr. CREEVEY proceeded. He requested the indulgence of the House lin. a short period, while he 'proposed some questions to the Gentlemen opposite. The first passage of the speech on which he was anxi ous to remark, was 'hat in which the country was congratulated on th flourishing state of the revenues; a state which was scribed to the system of licenses, than which no i sument in the hands of Govern ment could in I . opinion be more destructive to the general intere' . It was well known also that fo reign produc were obtained hot by the exchange for them of hcir commodities, but by the exportation of bullion ; an exportation so considerable as to occa sion the most alarming deficiency in the general cir culation of specie. 'rhe profit on the exportation of gold amounted to 32 per cent. The House must perceive that this system would lead to the deprecia tion of paper, and ultimately to national ruin, was this system to be continued. An Honourable Bart. had last night adverted to the omission in the Speech of all mention of India ; an omission as surprising to him as it was to that Honourable Bart. That im mense member of the Empire, which produced a re venue of L 5 millions, had not been heard of in that House these fur years. He understood, however, that it was in the contemplation of the Company to apply to Parliament, during the present Session, for a loan of two millions. Was that true ? He had also heard that it was in contemplatioti to propose the re newal of the Company's Charter. Indeed if that proposition were not made during the present Session, the Charter 4vould be virtually abandoned, as by the Act notice must be given of such an intention on the part of the Directors by March next. He wished for information on this subject, which was of the ut most importance, especially when it was considered that the Directors attributed all their misfortunes to, Lord Wellesley, who was now a principal Member of the Cabinet. Mr. ROSE, in reply to the questions of the Hon. Gentleman respecting the Trade Licenses, observed, that they were adopted to oppose the oppressive mea-' sures of a person at the head of the Government of France. The Honourable Gentleman had asserted! that we had no commerce, and that we paid for every thing in bullion. This was a complete misstate ment. The fact was, that the exportation of home manufactures was greater by millions than during any former year. He admitted however that the state of exchange was against us ; but if he were to enter into any explanation on this subject it would ne cessarily lead him into more extensive details than it was advise:tble to offer to the House on the present occasion: when the House should go into a Commit tee on the subject, he pledged himself to prove the accuracy of his statements. The Honourable Gen tleman talked of abuses in the distribution of licenses- He could only say, that he had never heard of any abuses, and that the utmost pains had been taken to prevent their occurrence. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in addition• to what had been said by his Right Hon. Friend on the subject of Lances, stated the question to be, whether in the present circumstances of the, world, it was or was not expedient to meet by that system the inconveniences which the system of the env . fly occasioned. If the Hon. Gentleman would bring this -subject fairly before the House, he would find it difficult to prove the negative of this question. The trade of Great Britain, during the last year, was unexampled, not only in the history of this country, but in the history of the world. He would repeat what he had stated on Tuesday night, namely, that the exports, exclusive of bullion, exceeded by seven millions the most prosperous antecedent year of peace ; and by ten millions the most prosperous ante cedent year of war. The Hon. Gentleman would have therefore to prove, that a system under which the trade of Great Britain had increased to a fifth more than the bulk to which it had ever heretofore arrived, was a system which Parliament ought to be called upon immediately to terminate. With respect I to the abuses hinted at by the Hon. Gentleman, in the granting of licences, lie wished that he had com rmunicated his knowledge of those abuses to the Board whence the licences proceeded, persuaded as the Honourable Gentleman must be (as he did not imagine that he imputed to the Board a connivance in those abuses) that such information would have been received. with grateful acknowledgement.— With respect to what had fallen from the Hon. Gen tleman, as to any intention of proposing pecuniary :assistance to the East-India Company, this was not the period for offering any opinion on that subject. On the result of the labours of the Committee on East-India Affairs, which he supposed would be re ceived, the House would judge of the propriety of ' affbrdmg or withholding such assistance. 'With respect to the Charter, the Honourable Gentleman well . knew that any proposition on that subject must originate not with Government but with the East- India Company themselves. Mr. TIERNiEY asserted that the great cause of apparenttl increase of trade during the last year, the merchants rrom iMporting and exporting at pleasure, and the wevulsiolt Which resulted froth the -prior stoppage of the ports. It was too much that Go vernmerbt.should take credit to themselves for mea sures which had not produced the effects ascribed to them. With respect to what had been said of abuses in the granting of licenses, he did not mean to state that gross corruption and partiality had taken place, but that it might have taken place. Suppose, for instance, that under this new fangled system licenses to trade to a certain port were granted for a week, and then suddenly stopped, might not a person who had obtained a license during that period get a va luable consideration for it ? The fact was, that this had been done ; and that a license of the sort which he had been describing had actually been sold for a thousand pounds. Did he mean to charge the Board of Trade, or the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, who was a principal Member of that Board, with any corrupt view in this transaction ? Certainly not. Still however it might possibly result from partial motives. Every bo.iy knew that he who has something to give was apt to get something in return. When a vote in the House of Commons became of great value, it was not easy to say how it might be purchased, or what inducement might be held out to an individual to sit up a few hours longer than usual, in order to give his,support to Government. Without intending to insinuate that the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite had made such a use of the system of licenses as that which he had been describing, he thought it but just, when its excellence was so much vaunted, to touch , upon a few of the injurious consequences to which it might perchance lead. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER explained, by saying he never had spoken of the Or ders in Council, or the system of lie J o, as eligible, measures ; on the contrary, he though.. tnem ineligi ble ; but they were forced upon the Government by the existing circumstances. Mr. ROSE assured the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Tierney) that in issuing those licenses the most perfect impartiality was observed, and no man's po litical principles or conduct ever thought of on such occasions. Mr. PONSONBY attributed the comparative pros perity of our commerce of late, not to the Orders in Council, nor the licensing system, but to the tem porary suspension of the American Embargo and Non-intercourse, under an idea that all differences were adjusted with Mr. Erskine (hear, hear, hear !) ; and to the occurrence of the Austrian war, which attracted all the French troops from the ports of Holland and Germany. Mr. STEPHENS spoke at some length in support I of the Orders in Council, and expressed his own satis • I faction in finding that measure, his own off•pring, the source of so much prosperity to this cc untry. In allusion to what had fallen from Mr. Tierney, he said, ' the Right Hon. Gentleman had this night illustrated the axiom, that memory was in the inverse ratio of cult ; for though the Right Hon. Gentleman had been at much pains to display his wit on this subject, his memory seemed totally to have failed hint ; no man had taken more pains to inform himself during the examination at that Bar, respecting the Orders in Council, yet he seemed totally to have forgotten, that the result of the measure to this country was an un paralleled increase of trade. He therefore trusted his Majesty's present Ministers, who had the approbation and thanks of all the merchants of this country, would never be induced to abandon a system, proved by experience to be of such important advantages, in order to adopt theories that were directly contradicted by the most ample range of experiment. Mr. WHITBREAD supported the arguments of Mr. Tierney, and without directly charging Ministers' with any partial abuse of their discretion, in the issue of licenses, yet he thought it placed a power in heir hands, which held out constant temptations to abuse, not always in the power of human nature to resist. Mr. WILBERFORCE felt it due in justice to his Majesty's Ministers, to declare, that in proposing the bill to prevent the exportation of bark, their object was not to prevent the enemy from getting bark but oblige them, it they were to get bark from this country at all, to get it with a certain proportion of other arti cles. He was ready to grant, that the mode of car rying on our trade by licenses was very objectionable, and liable to great suspicion ; and it was one of the unhappy features of the times that it was necessary to resort to such a practice. It was not to be supposed, if an increase of seven millions had taken place in the exports of the country, that any improper selection had been made of the persons to whom licenses had been granted. It must be obvious that they had been granted indiscriminately to the whole of the com mercial body, and not restricted to the friends of the Government. Sir JOHN NEWPORT observed, that the mei - candle inhabitants of the out-ports, more particularly in Ireland, comp Lined loudly of the system of licen ses, as operating as a check upon fair trade, which it converted into a lottery, a gaming speculation. This system of licences had the effect of laying the trade of the whole country at the mercy of the metropolis ; not in consequence of any undue preference, but be cause the merchants of the metropolis, from their lo cal situation, must be sooner informed when licences were stopped, and when granted, than it was possi ble for the merchants of the out-ports to be. This! was a ground of objection very seriously felt by the very respectable body he represented ; and he was determined to take an early opportunity to bring the matter under the consideration of the House. Mr. SIMEON was of opinion that the Orders in Council were like every other measure of policy—in tended to be strict only when they could injure the national enemy, and relaxed when they might benefit ourselves. It was admitted that trade had flourished. It was absurd to conceive that the system which be nefited the whole should be radically injurious to the parts. If the body of British Merchants were satis fied and grateful, it was idle to say that the individu als of that body were materially injured by the conti nuance of the system. Mr. BARING felt himself called to say something on the subject before the House. It was the great misfortune of the trade of the country that its suc cesses could not be attributable to any species of fore sight in those employed to superintend its interests. In looking to the Members of the Board of Trade, he could find but one man acquainted with its dual,— ' The remaining Members were lawyers, men in public stations, &c. Even a Bishop was among them ; and yet to thosel men, frill') whom it was idle to look c; --i e. t he n o l i p b'l e 'l r 't ai a " the commercial knowledge arising from comm e . jr : i experience, the whole trade of the country wa s ( ..., c „ . ; mined. It was equally idle to pretend that anv . at ai p d :o b s u pr inityd,efituacnicteaosf . s of our boasted prosperity was generated by the Uri ;, • I in existed the h of those Orders ; they had never been full) acted I T . on ; they had been relaxed from the fit if ill-cnieat;',i moment of their adoption. They might have p; ~,,,.., ed us hostility, but they had done nothing to proz ur . ass trade. The-exports were not an adequate test,_. An immense export of raw cotton sent out of En A land, in defiance of her own policy, was not a ;404 of this vigour of commerce. Let those sanguine c a , culators look to the state of foreign exchange. 1, ; them enquire the price of bullion, and then determ; whether the sudden flush of commerce be the • 4 -4 full ani natural health, or the sudden hue of • - a s• tc.e an unnatural, and an enfeebling repletion. Notice Was given of a motion on Monday , fir Committee of surly. Mr. ROSt gave notice ) that lie should, on 4 ,‘to i , day, move for a Return of the lmpotts and Expor a . of the last year. EXPZ.DITIeN TO WALCHEREN. Lord DORCHESTER said, lie had to call the at• tention of the House to no common or trivial subjecl: The matter which it was his duty to lay before tu n was unfortunately of a nature that hung heavy on the honour of the Country. He had to speak I,f re . national misfortune ; and he came down t-, ; i i , it House to claim of their tribunal national pitnishaniat against the authors of that misfortune. His nest ia tention had been to institute his inquiry upon the ea, tire system ; but in this complicated train of calann. ties, where nothing was uniform but the folly by, which they were occasioned, he would now select but one—one singly sufficient to excite the just indigna. tion of the House, as it had already excited the deep sorrow of the Country. Inquiry was demanZed.• H e had heard of Noble Lords in that House whia avowea that they would cow inquiry ; that they would soh. cit its most searching, minute, rigorous exnminaii In ; that they disdainethenercy, that they. would not owe their acquittal to any thing but their. innocence ; and in default of that acquittal, were willing to bow down before the most stern and penal retribution—yet wizla all this pomp of pretention, there would still - 45e at tempts at evasion. He felt that the dignity of t' t Country was connected with its justice, and he sh till therefore move for a Committee of the 1 I Biase s 1 ...VISV, Ito examine into the policy of the late Expedition. He should of course . hear the usual childish oilar f uges-- ,, Why will you agitate the measure be C , :e it; time ? Why will you move- for a Committee brf,r: we have given you the papers ?" But he moved t::• a Committee to judge of those papers. He demanded the establishment of a suitable tribunal before he would open his case. The House Irma be pledged to go into inquiry. His object was not then to dis cuss the merits of that investigation—not' to put the inquiry, but the Ministers upon trail—to give an ire jured people the only consolation fiat their injuriesll7 the brilliant prospects which they , had lost, for the dreary ones which were now spread before their eves —to pursue the authors of the. evil. through all tiler windings—to trace them through!all their obliquities —to strip off the robe of their ooncealment, and shear them in their nude and shivering- guilt, before the eyes of the people. In passing over the pages (Atli& most melancholy detail, he was it a loss where t fix his first charge, there was so much similarity ci evil—so dark and unvarying a colour of disgrace and disappointment. On every line of our late history, the system, taken as a whole, was so uncolinectti 'with wisdom, or principle, or use, that he wild hardly exert a power of selection. He was not fond of using severe language. He was willing to net cite the liberal judgment of a Member of that great Assembly. He would prejudge nothing. But if mis fortunes such as sickened the heart to think of, had been generated by the folly or presumption of Mi nisters, he could not submit to use the calm and courtly compliments that might suit their ear. They had been eccentric, but their eccentricity was only a snore varied folly. It was not like the wandering of those sublime and superior geniuses, which appear to have been sent at intervals to lighten the darkness of the world—those mighty and powerful capacities, whose course was not to be calculated ; as it was not to be restrained by the laws that are suited to hunilr ler minds ; in their swift and brilliant progress, giveig a new impulse and vitality to the general system- 4 'nee exalting the eye of man by their elevation, and nlightening it by their splendour. But the eccen .city of Ministers had no attribute of mind—lt was the restless and wayward wandering of a spirit that scorned to submit to the controul of- commit sense—the eccentricity of perpetual error—the ems tricity of a starved, shallow-brained, projecting spi!t of expedient and experiment ; of expedient, wliidi shewed nothing but the barrenness of their inventiK , and of experiment, which shewed nothing but the poverty of their knowledge. He would acknowledge • that when he heard the congratulation in the Kini Speech on the result of the campaign, lie could Let have expected to find that the only nutriment of o• juicing which the Ministers condescended to thrt : w before the eager appetite of the country, was th,r e,e• structicn of a basin, the blowing up of a sl u ice, allit the filling up of a dock. Splendid fruits of conqueso But if he might not presume to question its valw, the national enemy would save him the trouble. 'll.e French had already declared, that the damage w:l5 trifling, and that it might be easily repaired it ociq did not prevent it. Our enemies had the unparano ed insolence to tell his Majesty's Ministers that .: , -'r conquests have been worth nothing, or only pre:lo* ble tee France.—The avowed Object if the late EN' ..- dition bid been to assist Austria. Tie d e terminatio n of the Austrian Cabinet to try her 4trengtir r• , n France was known for a long period a ntecedent 0 her actual hostilities. The first battle wa s fought en the Bth of April ; the battle of Aspern, on the 21ft and 22d of May. From that time to the 6th ofinti the Conqueror ot % Lurope was reduced to act, foi A l , , e first time, on the defensive. On the 12 th , the . mistice took place, and on do: 28th• sailed our EIP,. e. dition. It would -have been too much in t he old? nary practice of great m litury characters, to s end as armament when or where it might be etlectualt! useful ; but we were cautious and provident ;I' lingered and loitered while exertion was necessary' we rushed forward,. while to have stood back woug., have bten policy. W'hen Austria was stlaillins •g 1 House. At the tomtit( posed the Bth May as th Bill, i. e. the reception of to propose the 7th May one day in the limit of tl had in view was to dim reception of petitions fo: sequent stages of those to those Bills a more am sing their previsions. lotions, viz. " 'That the House wt Bills after Friday, the 9t " 'that the House a Monday, the 19th Mar Tkat the House sv Bills after I\ londay, the It would be observed Tate 'Rills would, by the and the period for ree beyond the corresponds Mr. ROTE expresses by his Right Hon. Friel Bids, would, in some c; The CIIANCELI C • was desirable to establi: shot& be presented wi in Cases of peculiar di. To the circumstances lb* period, and deem The Resolutions w printed. Mr. BANKS, subj.icts of import • that evening, witl leave to bring in of last session pert , day ; a delay to duced, from undi which unfortunatt As, however, the (for the existing the commenceme• fer his motion lou The CHANC observed, that th Order Book for bably excite disc his Right Honou sequent day. W in the measure, whatever pet iod • were it. poster iur then his Majesty which the princil should oppose tl Honourable hri pend the power I If his Right Hoi would recommei he might bring f Mr. BANKS dingly fixed for Lord COCHI was the intentio pose on Monda) Lord Gambier, previous produt Martial which h and he pledged not only that— The SPEAK • the Noble Lord tion, it was irrl however, it era: the House at th, determine whet usage which ha. of such an inter Mr. PONS() derstood that th mediate motioi notice was not the thanks were House was not Noble Lord ha, • motion than the The CHAT declared, that lated to the pr Court Martial tion whatever I of that Court *at a proposit in a case of lift t nice to be acc consideration. Mr. TIE IU had taken the self to hint tc apprised that Gentlemin op Lord Gambier fUr that Right 'ilia motion the Court Ma CoMpanieti by sufficient for tI Lord Gambier the minutes Of ship was not spent.