Star. — London, England, 1821-02-09 00:00:00

ay a . SCARLETT expressed his a-•tonislimeat how E f ore c ould affect to doubt that t he qu estion of the me ant by the terms of the Requisition. v io y was l ib e u g nderstood the Hon. Member for Surrey rightly, a a t lion. Member said, that he had suggested to se ogal of bisfriends, that as the Requisition embraced • rot hThr,g which he was not ready to joia in, theioat wl- e would not be necessary. Now he• (Mr. o ,Th e t c t) had heard, and believed, that several of the &a d m en who supported the Hon. Member at his be election, and whom, no doubt, he called his f o b, did attend the Meeting. Now it appeared ig loos (Mr. Scarlet!) as a very natural thing, that the occoura bi e Member would have considered this as soccasion upon which he ought to have induced I k e attendance of every friend he had: and more, he Scarlett) believed the truth to be this, that seve ;ll of these friends had come to a determination of 'themselves not to attend. gr. DENMAN said, that he would take this op portunity of declaring, that it appeared to him now more than ever accessary that Petitions should be prepara by the People, praying for the restoration ;flier Majesty's rights, for the most unjust, iniqui sa, and calumnious proceedings of the whole had t aken place since the abandonment of the Bill in the ether House. If it had been asserted before, that a f t er the Bill was withdrawn in the House of Lords, and after her Majesty's persecutors had renounced, in words at least, all further proceedings against her, if it had been said, that after all this a Member of the Administration would come down to that House and boast of the quantity of evidence which had been withheld; if all this was foretold, the Noble Lord wou ld h ave been the first to collie fot ward and repel the injurious suspicions. Although he had witnessed the time when even her title was not allowed to the Queen —although he had seen her arraigned before a tribunal than which she could not have been brought before a more interested and prejudiced one, yet he raid not have believed that the benefit of acquittal would have been denied her. It was charged, that after the opening of the Attorney .General the Minis ters thought proper to circulate that statement with the greatest pains, and this charge was not denied. It was charged upon Ministers, that after the evi dence was gone through, and notwithstanding. the eforts of his Honourable Friend to procure the l:- berty of making a comment upon the evidence, this permission was denied, and the evidence was allowed to circulate through the country for three weeks. This was the greatest of all acts of injustice, and especially when the object of it was a female—and a Queen. Ile would remind the House, that when the Bill was in progress in the other House, it was un derstood, that when it was brought down to this House, her Majesty would have an opportunity of baring another trial. He now charged it as an in justice to her Majesty, that when the Bill was with drawn, and that the only other opportunity her Ma jesty would have of more clearly manifesting her in same was taken away from her—he charged it, he aid, as an act of injustice, that it was under these cir cumstances that the speeches of Cabinet Ministers, or pamphlets purporting to be such, wefe, as he was told, industriously circulated under the sanction of Ministers and their friends, for the purpose of destroy ing the character of her Majesty. This was the state ment which had reached him, and he gave the Noble Lord an opportunity of denying it, if untrue. It was with pleasure he recurred to the speech made on a former night by the Right Honourable Gentleman, the Member for Oxford, viewing, as he did, with ad miration, the calm, temperate, statesmanlike manner b which he viewed the question, he thought it impos sible not to regret that his example had not been deemed worthy of imitation on the same side of the House. It was well known that her Majesty was un der aitapprehension that proceedings would be re newed against her; and if Ministers had determined sot to do so, would it not be decent in them to have made a communication to that effect to her? If pro ceedings wet e not to be renewed, why was the Noble Lord and his colleagues deprived of the assistance of a Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Canning)—an assistance which they now so lamentably stood in need of? Why did that Right Honourable Gentle man retire from his place, and from any participa tion in the Councils of the Noble Lord and his col leagues, except, becau - se he felt a strong repugnance at the course they were pursuing ? But he begged the House to look at the situation in which her Majesty stood. She was tried and acquitted ; and though an expectation was held out to her of a subsequent oppor tunity of still more undeniably sliewilig her innocence, yet this opportunity did not happen, and the men by whose means it was not given were the very persons to etrerapt to run down her character, by speeches in that House, and by taking pains to circulate injurious impressions against her. But he would not pursue this part of ;he subject further. He would put a case fur the consideration of the House. He would sup pose that the administration of Government was trans ferred to the hands of a new set of men, and that, un der their sanction, an individual, now staading high in the Councils of his Majesty, and once a Member of the Administration of Ireland, stood accused of acts of bribery, in order to carry the measure of the Lnion; and he would suppose that rumours were gloat, and stories in circulation there, imputing to that individual no trivial or innocent participation in the tragical events which destroyed that unhappy country; he would suppose that a Commission was sent over to Ireland to ascertain the truth of those *pries, and the foundation of those rumours. lie would suppose, that upon the authority of the testi mossy collected by this Commission, a Bill of Pains and Penalties was introduced; he would suppose that ail the influence, all the arts and means of Govern went we re put into requisition, for the purpose of tarrying that Bill at all hazards; he would suppose that it w as at l ast a b an d oned in the Court whe,e it gar_ begun, by i ts a b as h e d patrons and abettors.— under all these circumstances, what would be thought of the Minister who would say, " Oh ! we have filled, it is true, in making out our case—we have sot made good our charges; but we have depositions its our hands, that would be sufficient to over whelm PUP if we chose to produce them !" What would thought of the Minister who would make this de claration, and at the same time solemnly renounce all open and direct proceedings, thereby manifesting to all,that tho s e assert i ons were resorted to, only 'wth a view to consummate the destruction of his wended v i • cum . 2 —(Cheers).—Could the House of ‘ 46ac anos endure it? And was it not itnpoasible that the Pearl: could loo; oa snch disgraceful con- 1 . duct, without throwing over the unhappy object of, persecution, the shield of genOious sentiment? ‘Vith respect to the PetitiOn, the chief prayer of which was for the restoration of her Majesty's name to the Li turgy, he could only say, that from the first moment his attention was directed to the subject, he had not only been impressed with the importance of it, but that in all places, whether in that House, or in ne gociations, he had never failed to express his opinions to that effect. With respect to the taunts thrown out against her Majesty, for die importance which she set on the restoration of 'her aod her de clining. to accept any provision until so restored—he would only say, that if the Noble Lord tame down with an ample provision, accompanied by a denial of her lights to be Queen, and insinuations against her character, he would only say that if she accepted the one, without the condition that those rights should be restored, and insinuations abandoned, she would richly merit all that opprobt him which some persons were attempting to raise against her, amongst that People who admired her resolution, loved her vir tues, and would never desert her whilst she remained true to herself!—(Loud cheering). Lord CASTLEREAGH said, it was not his inten tion to reply to the observations of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, although he was prepared and not iadisposed to enter into a discussion with him on any and all the topics of his speech at a convenient opportunity. At the present' moment, the House would see that it was not incumbent upon him to follow the Hen. and Learned Gentleman into a wide field of debate, merely because in the performance of a professional dut'-, and in compliance with pro fessional fee:ings, the Hon. and Learned Gentleman chose to invite him there. He should be sorry to sheen any disposition to restrain his very becoming indignation upon this occasion, or to restrain him in the discharge of those local duties which seemed to prompt him and several Gentlemen around him to tight those battles over again, which had been al ready foil& in the country ; and he believed, too, that not one of the performers who distinguished themselves by their exploits at the Meeting at Surrey, was wanted in the debate that night. No doubt it would appear extraordinary to some, that the Peti tion for the County of Surrey should give rise to the introduction of so many and so various topics, and that evading the only goestiou which in Parliamen tary regulari:y he ought to have dwelt upon, the llonourablo and - I.sained Condemns should leel himself ju,:ilitid in reading from an office copy of his one/ a, se: ies i,f invectives Alr. DENMAN rose to order, and said, " I am here, Mr. as a Member of Parliament, and as such I have tieiiveAd my own sentiments, I hope in a Parliar»eat , ry manner—(Load cries of Hear ). Am I the refine to be told by die Noble Lord that I am speaking from an office copy of a brief—that I am speaking th.: sentiments put into my mouth by another, rube:. than those s% hich are the dictates of Inv own mind F . —(hear, hear). Lord CASTLEItEAGH rose, but the cries of " Order" and Speaker" were su loud, that he sat mown without being able to give any explanation. The-SPEAKER observed, that if called upon to state his opinion, he must say, that if the Hun. and Darned Gentleman reit that the observations of the Noble Lord conveyed personal imputations, there, was no doubt but that such observations were disor- 1 derly. But he would put it to the consideration of the House, if it was for their convenience respectively that he should be called upon to interrupt their pro ceedings when anything happened to fall out in th.: course of debate which the ttlict rules of Parliamen tary practice would condemn ? He could only say, that in the passage of the Noble Lord's speech alluded to, it appeared to him that he never beard anything that had the semblance of irregularity in it, that contained less of its substance. Lord CASTLEREAGH meant no disrespect to the {louse; and thought that the speech just made had proceeded rather from the Advocate than the Member of Parliament. But if the speech had been' made by the Member of Parliament, then he (Lord Castlereagh) had been much misrepresented by him: What had been the state of the !louse and the coun try since the Bill had been withdrawn, when the most invidions statements had been made against the ser vants of the Crown? But the lIOn. and Learned Gentleman must not expect to have the battle wholly in his own hands, though he seemed to think it un fair that Ministers shouid defend themselves by coun ter-statements. Many witnesses could not be brought over to this country on account of the brutal treat ment the first who came had experienced at Dover. No lcs than eighty depositions had been taken at Milan ; but such had been the terror excited, that several witnesses, who had come the length of Paris; had refused to come over from thence. Notwith standing that cis umstance, the Hon. Gentleman and his Friend, the Queen's Attorney-General, had con tended that the trial should proceed, and that wit 11CS3C3 who were on the road should not be waited for. If he was to be told, that the country was never to be allowed to be quiet, he would tell the Hon. Gen tleman that he would not be prevented from stating to the House the facts of the case. Mr. DENMAN, in explanation, stated that he knew nothing of any witnesses having been stopped, nor did he believe it. Mr. lIUME denied that any articles in the Papers had been paid for by the Qiee.i.—The Petition was then read, and laid on the t Mr. Alderman WOOD said, that he should not have troubled the House with any observations on the present occasion, had it not been fur some of the re marks made by the Noble Lord (Castlereagh). The Members fur Somerset and Surrey had talked of large accounts, which they conceived And stated, on hearsay, to be unpaid by her Majesty ; but he under st;.od that the Member for Surrey (Mr. Sumner) had been unable to get from his coastitueuts any intim-ma- Lion of sach unpaid bills, or of any sums of money paid by her Majesty for getting up processions.— lle indeed, ready to state to the Honourable Members, that if they could produce one instance of, a Bill being unpaid, or of a single shilling being laid out by her Majesty to promote or defray the expense of Processions, he etuuld give them £lOO for each shilling so discovered—(Hear, hear).—The Noble Lord, tiudir.g he could not substantiate the charges which he m ide against the Queen respecting her Answers to the Dover and the Canterbury Address,:.„ had made one move attempt of the same kind, by fixing on the Answer to the Wandsworth Address ; and the Right Hon. Commissioner of Woods and Fo rests (Mr. Huskisson) had handed a bo tk to the Noble Lord, smiling at his ideal triumph, and had referred him to page 73, in which her Majesty was repre sented to have used the words "my People." So indeed it was stated in this book ; but would the Noble Lord and the Right Honourable Gentleman inform the House by whom, and for what purpose this book of reference had been written ?—(hear, hear).—He had to tell the Noble Lord that he (Al derman Wood) had examined the•manuscript of that Answer, and that the expression there was, " the People"—(Loud cries of Mar, hear).—Was it then to be tolerated that the Noble Lord, or any other lion, or Right lion. Member, should come down to that House and make such unfounded statements to the prejudice of their Queen? The Noble Lord had undoubtedly read the extract correctly as it was printed in the book; but that book was notoriously printed to answer the same purpose which the Noble Lord hasl e in view in reading the extracts; it was no toriously incorrect, and wilfully misrepresented the facts. It had been entensively circulated to answer the purpose of spreading the delusion, and that he believed under the patronage of Ministers—(Hear, hear, hear).—Was that conduct becoming of States men ?—was that the conduct which became thethead of Administration ?—(Hear, hear).—The worthy Al derman then proceeded to notice the snpposed attack on the Italian witnesses at Dover, which he declared to be nothing more in reality than the exclamation of a few old women in the crowd, which their ap- 1 . pearance had collected, of " Get home again, you Italian wretches !"—(sllurniurs from the Ministerial Iknclies).—The Noble Lord had said thefe were 80 witnesses who were afraid to come over ; he would ask what was become of about 50 who were in Cotton garden, that had not been examined ?—(C/seers). Mr. lIUSKISSON said, that the statement made I by him was to be found in the Public Prints that Most warmly advocated the cause of the Queen; and he was surprised that the Hon. Alderman, who had accesss to the manuscript, had not, at an earlier pe riod, corrected the mistake. He could seal cely be lieve that the Queen had lead the foul incitements to disturbance that had been put into her mouth. Mr. PELHAM presented a Petition from the town of Spalaing, in the county of Lincoln, praying for the in , ertion of the Queen's name in the Liturgy.—Laid on the table, and ordered to be printed. Mr. HUME presented a Petition from Perth, pray ing for the'dismissal of Ministers. In answer to what had fallen from the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Huskisson), he had only to state, that the only sedition he had ever been guilty of had been in advo cating the cause of an illustrious and injured indivi dual. If the Queen's Answers to the Addresses con tained seditious matter, why did not the Attorney- General interfere? He (Mr. Hume) had nothing. to • do with the Answers, though on the whole he ap proved of them. The Honourable • Gentleman then read the Queen's Answer to the Canterbury Address, in which the People were described as his Majesty's subjects, and contended that to have beet' the uniform practice.—The Petition was then laid on the table, and ordered to be printed. Mr. lIONEYWOOD stated, that he held in his hand a Petition from the Freeholders, Gentry, and Inhabitants of the county of Kei:t, praying for the restoration of the Queen to all her tiehts as Queen Consort. That Meeting had been held in the Town Hall of Maidstone, in consequence of the refusal of the High Sheriff to call a County Meeting ; and it was the first Meeting of the county of Kent that had not met in the open air. Only one hand had been held up against the Petition, anJ that was a Lieu tenant on half-pay cf the Waggon Train. It the High Sheriff took upon him to refuse to call Meet ings, then the right of petitioning was materially abridged. The Petition also expressed indignation at the mode in which Parliament had been prorogued. —lt did likewise state, that there had been no pro secutions for blasphemy in the county of Kent, and none had been held to bail. Sir L. KNATCHBULL could offer no opposition to the Petition, and was fully sensible of the import ance of the right of Petitioning. Upon general prin ciples, the High Sheriff was bound to comply with a Requisition. But to that principle there were ex ceptions, and the High Sherd declined to call the Meeting, as he did not think the Requisition in unison with the opinion of the County. Out of 200 Magis trates, the Requisition had not been signed by bye. —The individual who opposed this Petition had al mott lost his life, for manfully stating his opinion. It vas usual to give public notice of such Meetings, but the one in question had only appeared in a parti cular Paper, and had been unknown to the majority of the County till after the Meeting had taken place. Mr. lIONEYWOOD explained, and maintained that all publicity had been given to the Meeting. The Requisition had been signed by four of the oldest Peers in the County. Sir R. WILSON defended the mode in which the Meeting had been convened. Sir L. KNATCHBULL explained. The Petition could only be received as the Petition of those by whom it had been signed. Dr. LITSHINCITON said, that the nature of one of the Bills of the Noble Lord had been fully exem plified on the present occasion. if the signature of five Magistrates could not be obtained, though the Requisition might be signed by any number of Peer. ; and Freeholders, no County Meeting could he .ob tained. At present Magistrates were appointed by Lord Lieutenants for political purposes. By the Bill of the Noble Lord, the right of petitioning had been essentially abridged. Mr. R. MARTIN wished to ask the Learned Doc tor, if, before the passing of the late Act; the Sheriff was compelled to call a Meeting on any Requisition ? • Sir R. WILSON said, that in the event of a refusal, on the part of the Sheriff, the Requisitionists could call a Meeting of themselves—(flear, hear). • Mr. BURRELL defended the conduct of the Ma gistrates, who were unpaid and independent. Sir R. HERON admitted, that in general the Lord Lieutenants did their duty faithfully ; but were liable to be dismissed if they acted contrary to the wishes of :he Crown. Mr. F. PALMER stared, that he had been unable to procure his name to be placed in the Commission of the Peace for Wiltshire, though he bad lived in it for three years. Mr. itOI3INSON defended the conduct of the Lord Lieutenant of Wilts.--The Petition was then read, and laid on the table. Dr. LUSHINGTON said, that the rower of Lord Lieutenants was exercised with a view to their poli tical opinions. Lord CASTLEREAGH would state to the House, that not five out of 200 Magistrates would sanction the calling of the Meeting. DISTRESS OF THE COUNTRY. Mr. DUGDALE said he had a Petition to present from the Merchants, Manufacturers and Traders of the Town of Birmingham, which had been agreed to in the month of August last, but which, from the successive adjournments and subsequent prorogation of the House, there had not before been an opportunity to present. The Petition stated the distress of the country, and complained that no measures had been taken to relieve it, with the exception of the appoint ment of a Committee to inquire into Foreign Com merce, a branch of trade much inferior in importance to the Home Trade. The Petitioners drew a deplor able picture of the state of Trade and Manufactures in Birmingham ; they had taken the precaution to form themselves into Committees to inquire into the state of consumption of articles of neces,ity, such as meat, beer, bread, &c. since the year 1818. These inquiries went to ascertain the actual consumption at the time, and the proportion which it bore to firmer years ; they pursued those inquiries into different dis tricts, and found, in every place, that there had been an olerming diminution in the articles consumed by the lower ciasses in that town and neighbourhood during the last two years ; the consequence of this state of things was so obvious as not to require to be enlarged upon. The evidence of the distressed state of the working classes of the country, and conse quently the depression of Manufactures and Trade, was best acquired in this way. The public docu ments from which Ministers drew their conclusion, afforded but a fallacious criterion of the real state of things. They made the public revenue appear pros perous, when there was really a decrease. Agricul ture, Manufactures, and Commerce, the great sources of national wea:th, had suffered in all their interests, and in consequence the deprivations of the people were extreme. ' The Petitioners, therefore, humbly prayed Parliament, that a general and solemn investigation might be instituted into the causes of the national distress, and speedy and effectual means taken to remove them. The Honourable Member then proceeded to say, that he had himself thought it necessary to inquire into the state of Trade and Manufactures in the town of Birmingham, and be found that in some branches of hardware, there had been a falling off of 25 per cent. since last August. The capitalists were still re d uc i ng t h e i r capital. The workmen were not employed a b ove t h ree or four days in the week. The poor -rates, indee4 were nominally of the same amount as in the commencement of the last year ; but then, when it was taken into account, that the produce of the land bad suffered a material depression since that time, they were considerably heightened. The depression of trade in the town of Birmingham was also connected with the diminished prosperity of the Iron Works in Staffordshire, which furnished the hard materials to the manufacturers of the. town. All these, to be sure, were but local proofs of the existing evils; but he believed that similar in quiries would prove that they were but too general. He did rot at present think it proper to take any other step with respect to the Petition, than merely • , to move Li. it it be laid upon the table, assuring - the House that tile matter was one of vital. importance, and one which required the deepest and most serious attention of his Majesty's Government-,(Hear, hear.) He hoped and trusted the moat anxious consideration would be given to it ; and that the Petiti9ners, who had bonze their calamities with a patience and loyalty which was not exceeded in any part of the kingdom, would obtain that relief which their sufferings de manded, and which their merits so richly deserved. Mr. LAWLEY would call the attention of the House to the Petition, which . involved the most im portant interests of the empire. The Petitioners had found that a diminution of one-third had taken place in the necessaries of life, such as bread and beer, and what was procured by credit. Mr. LITTLEToI,I could speak, from personal knowledge, of the truth of the Petition; and the same results would have been found in the county of Staf ford. He was aware that much of the distress was to be imputed to the steps which had been taken for the resumption of cash payments, and the consequent reduction of the issues, both by the Bank of England , and the private bankers. The Petitioners were of opi. ❑ion that the transition from war to peace had not contributed to the distress of the two last years. It had been stated, by a very enlightened Deputation to Lord Malgrave, that, in the town of Birmingham, a musk.-t was usually manufactured in. the space of a minute. The cessation of such a traffic must have opetated most powerfully. The whole of the ex ported iron took place from the county of Stafford, and all the rest was disposed of in the home markets. Ile was of opinion that a tax on property and on the national debt would be cheerfully assented to, and would be extremely productive. Mr. CURWEN thought that no Petition was cal culated to excite such general alarm as the Petition before the House. The silence on the subject of the Agricultural distress, in the Speech from the Throne, was a most unaccountable omission. Though the wages of the Cotton Manuficturers were so low, no demand had been made for an increase, which proved that no real improvement had taken place. lie was happy that' a Committee was to be appointed to in. quite into the Agricultural distress ; but should that Committee recommend that the home market should be laid open to the Agriculturist, would the Noble Lord comply with the recommendation? Wheat, which was formerly 10s. the bushel, was now only 6s. and that made to the Agriculturists a difference of 20 millions. 'lf cheap food could give a stimulus, that would have been done etc now ; but that had increased the difficulty. When the taxes were paid, and the poor rates and tithes collected, the landed proprietors might nearly resign their land. The real property of the country was reduced to 20 and out of that eight millions were to be paid for Poor - Rates. The interest of the funds was double that of the landed property; and was that immense sum to pass untaxed ? He wished the country could bear an Income or a Property Tax, but that was im possible. His tenants had demanded an abatement to the amount of 25 per cent. and unless that was done, they would give up their rents. Could things