Star. — London, England, 1817-06-21 00:00:00

PARLIAME,NTARY PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF LORD?, JUNE SO. - - - The Royal Assent, by Commission, was given to the Mutiny, the Watch and Ward, the Husbandry Carriage 'lolls, and the Agent General's Office Regulation Bills. The Commissioners were, the LORI.) CLIANCILLOP., the Earls of SaiIaTZSISURT and BATILitteST. A Petition from certain Inhabitants of Leith against the Union Canal Bill, was presented, but the Agent of the Petitioners having no Instructions to pray to be heard by Counsel, and no thing being urged in support t.f the Petition, Lord DONDAS moved the third reading of the NU, which was read accordingly ard Against the 'final enactment of the latter Bill, a Petition was presented, and ordered to lie on the 'Fable. 'Fhe Bad of SHAFTESBURY presented a Petition from Mrs. Flynt, praying to be relieved from the operation of an Act of the last t'ession, authorising her Divorce from General Dyott, as far as related to the Marriage Settlement. The plea of the Petitioner stood on the alledged ground of a false and erroneous representation of (ac's, by which their Lordships bad been in duced to-grant the Divorce. The F.ail of LAUDERDALE observed, that the Petition ought to have been presented at an earlier period, when, during the progress of the Bill, an amendment might h ave be en: pro yosed. He was apprehensive that the unfortunate Lady bad fallen into the hands of persons who hoped to convert the money they were urging her to seek, to their own purposes. 'I he Petition was ordered to lie on the Table. The Earl of LIVERPOOL gave nonce that he shculd, on Thursday next (the prints being already on the Table) move the s.colid resting of the Offices Abolition Bills. The Earl of LAUDERDAI E observed, that tie Papers or. the fable, relating to the 'object to which the Noble Lord hal just adverted, were Lot complete or satisfactory. He particu larly alluded to the documents requisite to th.eidate the nature e the Irish Offices, and el, daily that of the Clerk 4,t the l'ebs, and asked whether the Noble hart was prepared to turisish any information on rbs' head ? The Earl of LIVERPOOL Raid, he was ern posse:end of that Wet info:l:l4bn' relative to Irelscd which the Noble Bari seem. ed to desire, but he suppood it might tutp. et:lenity be produced it the Interim. The further consideration of the Colliers' Wages Commune. tion Bull, as well a. do! scoot(' reading ut the Savings husks Bill, was postponed to Wednesday next. The Yeontanz-, C•:a•ry Bill went through a Cutomittee, and was ordered to be rey oriel—Adjourned. tiOLi'L• OF COMMONS. The Srna xr:a went to the Lords to hear the Royal Assent even, by Commission, to several public and private Balls. 1 he Repose of the Committee on the Mary-la-Bonne Church Bill was ordered to be taken i..to further cousideration the, day sic months. The Tithe Amendment Bill was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Moc.day. The Hop Bill was ordered to be read a second time this day six months. Minutes of Evidence taken at Derry, respecting certain Ex cise Officers, were laid upon the Table. The Strait Debts Bill went through a Committee, the Report was received, and ordered to be taken into (enlist consideration on Thursday. The Report of dui Spirit Duty Bill was brought up, the Re. solutions were agreed to, and a Bill ordered accordingly. The County Rate Appeal Bill went through a Committee.— Report on Monday. Tbe East Incta Ship Owners Allowance Bill was read a second time, and committed for Monday. Mr. S. Worivi.tv presented a Petition from Barber Beau mont, Esq against the Bill (or regulating the Demising of Pub lk Houses, as inefficient to answer the purposes ol justice in its present shape.—Ordered to Ile - On the table. (;OLD AND 51LVLR. Mr. BUTTERWORTH moved for Returns of the ►;umber of the Licenses granted for dealing in G .ld and Silver, together with the Quantities MADU factored, distinguishing those Quantities which ex ceeded tvo'otacmesot Gold tied thirty ounces of Sa ver.— Ordered. NAVY LSTIMATES• The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER waved, that the House do resolve itself into a Com mittee of Supply on the Navy Estimates. t. it C. PULE thought it would be better not toga into the Committee until the Report, as it related to the Navy Estimates, was before the House. The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER said, that in point of form, it would be better to go into the Committee of Supply at present upon the Navy Estimates, as no question was likely to arise upon them. He should wish also to refer the Irish Miscellaneous Estimates to the same Committee. S:r JOHN NEWPORT thought one of these Estimates would be enough for one night. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, his only motive in the proposal was, to consider these Estimates trst, upon winch it was not likely that any difference would arise. The SPEAKER having left the Chair, the follow ing Resolutions were proposed by Sir Gkotton Wan. BENDER :••-‘ 4 That a number of men, not exceeding 19,000, including 6000 Royal Marines, be employed for the sea service for seven lunar months, com mencing June the 17th, 1817, and ending the .sth of January, 1818." Sir C. POLE wished to know whether these men, serving in the time of peace, would be entitled to, pensions, on the same footing as it their services were performed in time of wart If so, it would create a great additional Written. Sir G. WARRENDER answered in the affirma e. Pensions he consideted of great advantage,be cause in the event of war, they might look, in conse quence of them, for the services of 15,000 of the best men in the nes y. The 19,000 employed in time of peace would not cause a great increase of pensions. There was no part of the arrangements for the navy better, in his mind, than. that by which the pensions alluded to were panted. Sir C. POLE considered the pensions not placed upon a proper footing. Sir G. HOPE wished to know, whether it was the object of the Honourable Baronet (Sir C. Pole) to di, away with the pensions of the army as well as tt.e navy Sir C. POLE said, he was desirous to see the Re. port of the Finance Committee upon the subject Mr. CALCRAFT knew that pensions were re ferred to in the Report of the Committee. Some re gulations were proposed. but they were prospective, ard did not relate to per.sions paid at present. The army regulatio:3 upon this subject were proposed by a friend of hia, those of the navy were proposed by Lis Majesty's Ministers. They were to be equalized. He did not well know what opii.ion to form on the Navy Estimates, as the Report was not before him. It would be better to assume a sum, and let the bu sines* stand over until they had the Report. ..Tbe CHANCELLOR •of the EXCHEQUER thought the course proposed by him would be more convenient. _ _ _ Sir C. POLE wished to know, whether k was Cer. taiu that the Pension regulations for the Army m a d Navy were to be equalised. CALCRAFT would not undertake to say that such was the fact. lie only cocaut to ',taw what had been recommended, prospectively by the Com mittee. The Resolution was then agreed to, and the fol lowing sums voted : For seamen's wages during seven lunar months, com mencing June IT, and ending lartaary 5, - .c252,70n For victualling the ships - 2711,65`-' • For wear and tear of ships - - 283,9;0 For the ordnance of the sex service - - 26,600 To pay off the Debt of the Navy and Transport Service - - - - 1,660,000 For the transport of sick art wounded seamen, and prisoners of war - i 20,000 IRISH MISCTI LANROCS srnviccs. ..... . Mr. PEEL said, he rose to move the votes for the usual Irish Miscellaneous Services. He should have no hesitation in postponing any vote to which there might ,be an objection. There was no , addition to any of them, except three, and there was a conside rable reduction in some. The three items to which an addition was made, were the Fonndling Hospital, the vote for the education of the poor, to which ai3,000 was added—(Hear) —snaking in all about £9,000. The object of it was to educate the Irish poor of every class, without distinction of religion. I'he other item was Stephens's Hospital. One item of reduction was the Espresi Establishment, in which there was a saving of 415,000. There was also a great reduction in the Board of Works. It was now only about k 21,000 in all ; whereas, upon former occasions it was double that sum. The ft/Rowing sums were then voted: For the support a the Protestant Charily Schools in Ireland - Plit,tiii To defray the espouse of the Foundling limpital ati,ri2tt For the Howie ut Industry and the Asylunt - 1i,047 for the Richmond !Atomic Asylum • ?,aunt For the Hibernian Society of Soldiers' Children 7, 5.2 For the Hibernian Marine Society - . tt,7si For the Circular Road Female Orphan House - it,7tiir Fur the Westasorelinul Lock lia•pitid - B,Slii For the Lying-lu iluspital . - ty in For Stephens's Hospital . - I,tti: For the Fewer Hospital - - 4045 For the hoypttat ut i. cur:Ales - - 465 1 u defray the esi•en•e , of the Smiity for the Sir. pretoilun of Vice is Iti Lint f',496 For the Green-coat I iinvt.il ..f tie City of Cork 14 1 4 For the Education of the root it. Ireland B,9^_J • For the Dublin Society . -10,19 U Fur building Churches and Glebe-house:in belaril F i i:::0 'I to be paid to the Commissioners of itrst•Fr mit* ter the repair of Churches, Glebe-houses, Ile. (1,461 For the Linen and Hempen Manufacture .. IRAS* For snaking wide the streets of the City of Dublin 1.174 Fur the karmirg Society -4.55 A For the Cork Institution - - RAM Fur additional allow:ace to the Board of Navigation t 76 For the remuneration of several Puthc °laces 1,152 Fur the Board of Works - - 19,8.c.9 Fur Stationery - - 27,LUJ kor the Salary of the Deputy, Clerks. and for the Stationery of the Chief Secretary's Office - 20,0e0 For the expense of publishing Prociantatious - 9,692 For printing Statutes - - 2,439 For Criznittal Prosecutions, and other law exper.ses itit,titie Fur cooductitg Criminal Prosecutwr., u Irdand i'.i,1;01.1 For the buppurt ut Nou-Coulormist Dliuivters of Ire land - 1 1 ,5 31 For the supporting of the seceding Ministers of Ulster 3,794 l's For Lottery-Odict Keepers - - 1,449 For the 'Pratique of the Port of Dublin - 939 Fur the clothing of Battic-ase Gt.arils - osS 1 7, ' - - and , &c. of Hi - Harbour 14, ,•ur keeping , _ repair, etc. tit ,owth ..,cOO for the Com 4, Airlat Department it l-etar.4 - I tra r iao For allowances to the permanent Xetrulanrl Corp in Ireland - . 2,000 For the Barrack Department - - 131,000 For pernotoent charges of Ireland, oinstandlrg and unpronded for - - 143,351 " The House then resurnet, and the Report was ordered to be brought up to-morrow. SUSPINSION OF THE HABEAS CORPUS ACT. A Message from the Lords announced that their Lordships had passed this bill. Lord ALTHORPE said, he hoped it was not in tended to press the first reading of this Bill, till the Report of the Secret Committee of the House had been presented. • Lord cAsTLEREAGH—If it were agreeable to the Noble Lord and to the House, he would have wished that the Bill should now be read a f i rst time, I but he had no wish to press this, and as the Noble Lord did not seem to wish it, he would only now give notice, that he should move the first reading of the Bill on Monday, as it was likely the Report of the Secret Committee would he presented this night. Mr. PONSONBY—For one, he should oppose the Bill in the very first stage. Sir SAMUEL ROMILLY rose to present a pe tition from the town et Kingston upon Hull, against the Suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act. It was signed by 1400 most respectable persons, Merchants, Bankers, and others. They implored the House, in stead of employing the remainder of the Session to pass a Bill to suspend the liberties of the subject, rather to employ it in inquiring into, and remedying public abuses, with the view of diminishing the pub. lic expenditure. The Petition was brought up and read. On the question that it do lie on the table— Lord ARCHIBALD HAMILTON rose to pro test against the intended continuance of the Suspen sion. As he would not have an opportunity of at tending in his place next week, he ahould be guilty of a neglect of his duty if he did nut take this op portunity of delivering his sentiments on so important a subject. He then adverted to the proceedings which had taken place in Scotland, and noticed that One =II who had been arrested some time ago, and bisd . been ever since imprisoned, had already been twice tried for the same offence, and although on the in dictment lie had already been twice acquitted, yet was he now a third time put upon his trial. Atter a short pause, Mr. BROUGHAM said he was surprised that no Member of the Administration connected with Scot land should take any notice of the very flagrant case mentioned by the Noble Lord who spoke last. He knew that tbc law of Scotland unfortunately audio vised the trial of a man a thousand times (it the Crown pleased) for the same offence. After com menting on the hardships endured by the indivi dual in question, in being already twice tried on faulty indictments, and all the time kept In solitary confinement, he observed, that he was now again I put upon bis trial on a third indictment, on which it was not for him to say what would be the decision of die Court, but of which he might say, that say lawyer who examined it must see was not valid. Was it intended to put this unfortunate man upon his trial a fourth time ?—(l/ear, hear, from the Opposition.) He believed, nom the Atone of the Hun. Member opposite, that it was. Sir B4MUEL ROMILLY said, %bat although the person in question was only tried for felony, yet he was always committed on a charge of treason. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said be knew neither the case nor the name ot the person whose case was now alluded to. But it did not seem that this was the proper time to discuss that case, for it had n 9 connection with the Suspension of the Ha beas Corpus Act. How the law of Scotland was upon this point he did not know ; but by the law of England a man might be tried more than three times for the same acts, it they were each time charged as different offences. Mr. BROUGHAM did not mean to say that there was any siting illegal in the proceedings in the case' alluded to. Mr. WILLIAM DUNDAS said, if it was al lowed that the proceedings in the case alluded to werc allowed to be legal, the question was, whether the l loose was now to be called upor. to alter the Law of Scotland ? There was not the least connection, between the case of the man alluded to, and the Sus pension of the Habeas Corpus Act. Sir JOHN NEWPORT maintained, that there WAS a strong connection between the case mentioned and the Suspension. The question on the Suspen sion was, whether. Ministers should be entrusted with certain Lowers, and the question in this case was, how Ministers had exercised the powers committed to them? Mr. ABERCROMBIE, admitting that the pro ceedings in the case alluded to were legal, wished to know whether it would be said that they were con formable to the usage of the law of Scotland ? The case called loudly for explanation. Lord CA:iTI.IiIt.LAGII.-Ife did not rise to prolong the conversation; but he wished to submit, that it any improper exercise of posters were corn plained 01, it might be very fit to call the attention ot the !louse to it in a regular way. But certainly there could . be nothing less useful than to call the at tention of the House in a collateral way—(llear, hear. fro* the O(iposition.)—to questions elating to the administration ot justice, on which it was not to he expected that his Majesty's Ministers could be previuitily informed ; for if there was any thing of which the House ought to be more paiticitlatly jea lous, it was of any interlerence by Ministers in the administration of justice—(/fear, hear.) Happily for the liberty of the subject, the discretion to be exer cised in our Courts of Law was not a political dis cretion, but a legal one. But to bring f9rward ques. tions connected with the administration of justice ht interlocutory conversation—( Loud cries of lirar, hear, from the Opposition hint/rte)—traded mote to obstruct public business than to aid the adntinistration ot jus tice—(lie:tr. hear, hear.) lie did not consider it any abandonment of their duty for the Ministers of thc Crown to be ignorant at present how the Lord Ad vocate exercised his duties in Scotland as a servant of the Crown. But he protested against any one ar raigning the conduct at the Lord Advocate while hr WAS not present to defend himself, as he had uo doubt he should be well able to do. Lora MILTON would enter his protest against the dictum of the Noble Lord, that because the Lord Advocate was at a distapce of four hundred miles from Town, the House would forbear alluding to any legal subjects in which he, as Law Of f icer of the Crown, might chance to be concerned. This was one of the most extraordinary principles ever laid down, even by that Noble Lord (Hear; hear) be. cause the effect oi it was this, that when the perso. nage alluded to was absent, it would be unfair to ar raign his public cuuduct.—(Lord Castlereagh here disclaimed that he meant any such thing.)—He was sorry to misapprehend the Noble Lord's argument, but such it appeared to him to be—( Hear , hear, from the Opposition Benches.) But the case may arraign the Government as well as the Law Officers. Was it to be said that Ministers were to exercise no con troul over prosecutions fee matters affecting the State (Hear, hear) ? If it were so said, Ministers would abdicate that proper superintendence which they ought to hold over such proceedings—(Htar, hear.) If Ministers relinquished this responsibility, then a sort of Departmental Government must ensue, quite separate and distinct from the controul of the Exe cutive Government. The Noble Lord then adverted to the Report of the Secret Committee, which, he conceived, ought to be as fully open to discussion as passible. The House ought to have time to consider the materials on which they were about to act before they adopted a system of legislation upon them : the bringing up of this Report, as he knew it to be ready, ought to precede the opening of the Budget, because if it were to follow it, the thin state of the House, at so late an hour, would preclude the possibility of a proper discussion. Lord CASTLEREAGH. in explanation, begged to say, that he only complained of the course taken in inuodueing this subject. He held it quite unfair to attack the credit of Courts of Judicature in this in cidental manner, when no definitive decision could be obtained. Mr. BROUGHAM declared, that he said no thing which could be construed into an attack upon Courts of Judicature. All these Courts had had, in fact, to do relative to this case was, to quash the in dictments of the Crown Officer—(H:4e, hear, and cries of 41 Sftoke.") Mr. ABERCROMEY and Lord CASTLEREAGH were severally proceeding to explain, when they were inter rupted by cries of " Steele, spoke." Mr. Poxsoxav was also interrupted. Mr. CURWEN agreed thit this was a question which ought not to be got rid of by a side wind. If the Noble Lord wanted time to make the necessary inquiries, he ought certainly to have it ; but in the in terim, all further proceedings relative to the further Suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act should be laid aside for the moment. It would be treason against the State to proceed further with such a measure. until the fullest explanation was given relative to said he had not spoke on this ther fr. pr p o o ce N ed s t o rg. N s ßy particular question when he was interrupted by the Honourable Gentleman opposite (Mr. Hart Davis). lie now begged to assure that Honourable Gentle man that he meant to speak, and would persevere in doing so, even at the risk of incurring his formidable displeasure—(iteardisor, hear.) He begged leave to contends with his Honourable Friends near him, that the present course was not an arraignment f the Comets of Judicature in Scotland, unless, indeed, the Lord Advocate of Scotland could be said, per se, to be a Court of Justice. He was a prosecuting officer on the part of the Crown, aid nothing elsc it W 45 that learned person who was arraigned for tI • • lis top e indictment, and it did appear to him ( Mr. Pzasae.by ) as a man who had attentively ctm:idered dw. law s 4 his country, that it was most extraordinar y ho w Law Officer could feel himself justiied in pro:eedira, by three indictments against a man- t , a the SAM,. fence—(Bear, hcar,i.car.) Of the circurnstame„.l the case he knew nothing, but rtgar,iing ines.:y Laws of England, whether the proceeding are gal or not, it was certainly oppressive.-(if,„,..k,,,.. ) He would reserve his opinion till the facts ot the Le e came properly before them ; but lie could not rif:ai o on the present occasion from saying, that there;,,:. - was a more unfounded charge than that ot its 1.. i the object of his Honourabe Friends to vil'fy t• Courts of Judicature in Scotland, wl..an their evi,4:..t intenders were merely to inquire into the c• , :.dtic ~1 the Lord Advocate—(Hear.) Mr. HART DAVIS disclaimed having ireaia !a interrupt the Right Honourai* Gtntlemau who Lad last spoken. His observation was intended for 4,- ther quarter. Mr. CANNING observed, that if the against the Lord Advocate V.%.4 against law, then he would be deicrved.v arraigat,', but when this arraignment was coupled vita t':e at:. mission that he acted accordirg to law. at 4 loss to see the object of the Gentlerr:;, •^ : rosirc I (hear, hear)---because, if their statements !‘a the laws, not the individual, were to Mime, and (he way of shaking off the evil was to amend Lilt . I ie would then say, that, on the shewing of the 1L... Gentlemen opposite, the whole system of the laws i . A:at:and had been arraigned. As to the particular case 0 1 t h e L au d Advocate, he (Mr. Canning) tv.• nrivreparf,cl to speak—and he was not ashamed to say, that he rn , :st get more light on the subject if the laws of !;rd•lar,d than he had this day itubitnni, hefut e lie could e..,.!tr form an opinion on this subj-..:!. Tne effect of the st t•!.10?-ot was evidently to cr . ...0.e an impression that the Lord Advocate had extetial his authority in a tyrannical and oppretsive rnalear. On the naked statement, it might be adinitted that we should dislike to Eve omit:: :,ash a system laws as had been described—://ear, , :ear)—le..t it might also be adm:tted, that whatever hardship was incurred in the individual case, it was not withoat its particular inuiticat ion. la any view of the .srs• , either the law must be altered, or the Lard .IJvihre formally arraigned for :.trai.iing the law. ta: the latter, if decided upon, shwa'd he siane by due nraic.:, allowing an opportunity to the individual impuet.ed to come forward and defend himsell. rifear, &sr.) He (Mr. Canninr) ccncurred with Hs Noble r a i e ej in thinkinr, that it was not the duty of his Maj. r.y'r Minister::, Lot, on ‘ the contrary, a great chest of t!•e'r authority, to nariere ir, this c'.ttails of the adnir.- stration of the law. The general purity of the lair, they were doubtless bound to watch over ; but tlnsy were bound to do so mere in their capacity as le p p,. lators, than in their situation as servants of the Ea.. cutive. Whenever the real question of the abuse of law came distinctly before them, he, for one, would te ready to pronounce an honest opinion on the subject., Lord FOLKSTONE observed, that the Right Hon. Gentleman ( Mr. Canning) had expressed his satisfaction at not living under the laws of Scotland e l and was, therefore, the individual who had arraigned the judicature of that country. His ( Lord Foil,- stone's) Hon. Friends had done no such thing-6 , y had only said, that though the laws of Scottand lerated such a proceeding, they did not render it im perative upon the Lord Advocate to pursue course which he was represented to have adopted.-- They did not complain of the laws of Scotland, though they certainly did of the sort of discretion es ercised by the Lord Advocate in his indictments and re-indictments. (Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord concluded by alluding to the Report of the beset Committee, for the consideration of which ample tine ought to be allowed. Mr. FINLAY strongly censured the proceeding by indictment, as it had in this particular case hen exercised. It had disgusted and disapiesinted whole of the Scottish nation. (Hear, /mar.) it V;3s scandalous to see that the bird Advocate was unable to draw up an indictment to meet the case of the pri soner. On the part of the whole population of Scat. land, he complained that the Law Officer of thr Crown was unable to frame an indictment, on which the Court could act. The consequence was, that ii.e ends of justice were defeated. Would Minister:: to grate that such power should rest in such kn.& ? (Hear, hear.) Nobody had ever heard of time Is• lemn adjudications like this upon a form of indict. meat ; and be thanked the Noble Lord (Lord Hamilton) for bringing this subject under the :ut...- deration ot the House. (Hear, hear.) Mr. V. FITZGERALD strongly censured .hr mode in which the subject was introducer' for tfe:::r* , .. though he did not presume to pronounce any °Fives on the law, or the facts of the case. The petition was then laid on the table, nal o• dered to be printed. carer: PAC cm:Noreen On the Motion of Sir W 11. IAA NI BURROT.7O a Committee was appointed to 'earth the 1.0r.:•' Journals, and to procure a copy of the Rey:: of t. Secret Committee appointed by their Lordahipe. • Lord FOLI:STONE expre , sei h:s serprize any Member of the House, ee.ving the Reprnt 0: their own Committee ready. should hesitate to 1•: sent it. The Chairman of that Commit:et- Bathurst) was not in the House, he should theeefee move, that Lord Milton hare leave to report oee. the Secret Committee. Lord CASTLEREAGH Said it was onnecel. J'• to have the Report bricre the House that Pir):: would still be impossible for them to proceed to deliberation on it before Monday. The bn'irr'. the night was extremely important, winch !. time had been already enmed in inteelocnteev • :-- ceedings, and such an order at now F•oro - ed `"• be attended with no advantage. The lt<r^r probably be presented in tl:e course of the'evee Mr. PONSONBY wa hippy to hear port was even approaching the flew: •-•- anxiety of Mothers Was very natin.ll to i...•. Report read, for the purpose cf comin4 14.1. • pared to the discession or. Monday. tie : • • • • • • the motion cf the Noble Lord, but. those!:: •- • of the House would be better obtained b) tie Chairu•,an of the Csnritrettee w atttL,l t o. •:, furthwith—(t{sm•. Lai, a J a s'Juit thatfu% r%ove a, ar. au.cudwient— "lll, L.W &iota 114:4;ha•lik Omits UtiP bs' . 4 • "."