Star. — London, England, 1803-12-10 00:00:00

am fully furs that the members of the volunteer af fociation; do not by any my: lo undertland it. I fhnul4 with W knOw tFt Liniments of his %jelly's hlintfters upon this osteitiuh. Lail fellion it Arias un• deritood that the voletitteets were to be drilled only on Sunda., s, io older that the progrn; of their tin:. , not interf:re with thjr raip,:aive avocati collateral eircurnflance, but is yet a:Ater; tl to the p ani in view, hecatife if it were of tie 114:nets of the bill to make the v••lunteete within any realimable time con. vertible inns an efficient force, they undoubtedly would. a, they ought, have ptefetibed that ranch more time titould be devoted to the learning of mili tary din i; iine ; is fah, that no time should lutt. But, aro, diog to the original principle of t h e WI, the volopit.ers wei c not in any cafe to go into the arms, that is, to enter into the regular regim,nts recollar I agree with the Right litmoura- G:ntieni in under the gallery, that the volunteers tholi!ei he allowed pay for loch days as they were called u;son to Attell f drill, for it wool,' be extre m e . ly unfair to admit the id:a, that indufitiotts men of family fleitild be expefted from patriutifm to devote fo mu !h th:ir time to military fernice for the pub- Pc without any pecuniary compenfation.— Although I cannot ccmprehend clearly, and where 1 c..n corn;o:hend cannot approve, toe other remarks he m...1e cpon lubje.a, 1 thinild be glad indeed to hear in wilat ii,eht theft remaiks are regarded by Miniflers, by .hum the generality of the °Versa tions of the Rigl t Hon. Gentleman on the lime bend; with me ftcm to be mike mil:once:eel, and I am the more :inxions that thofe obfery.itions Ihould be eleally reptefetted, as they happen to be fo ex pre:live ui wh it 1 hold myfelf. The Right Hun. Getnisman eii.! not fay, as the Noble Lord fisted and argued upon, that the Volunteers formed a f.rce that was locked up from the public irk ; but that many of thole who might have compofed the neat . - fary increafe of the Regular Army wcte locked up in the inititution, and fo they are by the exemptions' which olunteers enjoyed from being ballotted for the Militia or the Airily of Referve. This was the complaint of the Right Hon. Gentleman, and it is mine. Another Right Hon. Gentleman on the fame bench with me (Mr. T. Grenville) has obferved that no recruits are likely to enter into the army from the Volunteer Corps. It does not appear to me defirable that fuch a thing Ihould be fought fon I hope it never can be io the contemplation'of any man to ufe any compullion for fuch purpofe towards thole who have entered into the volunteer corps under the exprefs underflanding which the bill contains. The honour of the country and the charafter of the Le. giflature forbid it. I croft that in no event will an 'attempt he made to feduce the volunteers to inlift, beeaufe fusli an attempt would be a violation of the terms upon which they became volunteers; and I am pretty lure that no man has entered into there affociations, under the idea that he was at any time to be transferred to a regular regiment ; and from the rank in life which the generality of the volunteers bold, any effort to recruit the army from among them would be attended with very ioconfiderable fuccef*, if any. Indeed, I do not at all like the idea, as it is incontiftent with the nature of the engagement, as they underftood it upon entering into the volunteer corps. Whatever I may think of the inftitution, I with the members of it to be treated with the utmoft refpeet and attention, as I molt fincerely applaud the zeal by which they are titillated ; but I never can perfuade myfeif to believe that they are ever likelyto anfwer the exportations of the Right Honourable Gentleman under the gallery, even if they were ta be drilled 5o days in the year, as the Hon. Gentleman defired. In what time, I would alk, confidering the ordinary habits of the nsembers of the volunteer corps, would they be cdpable of filling the place which the Right Honourable Gentleman would af fign them? certainly not in the 'next year or the fob lowing. Would it be prudent to place the fafety of the country under the protefiton, at any time of war, en a body of volunteers not fubjeCt to martial law, nor inured to military difcipline ? If the rumour of invafion, which by the bye, I never though: fo likely to be attempted, and if attempted not fo practicable as moll people teem to imagine, were to blow over, would the Right Honourable Gentleman under the gallery, or any other Gentleman, venture to advife the fending of our regular army on any foreign expe dition, and depend entirely on the vclunteet s for our gaiety aeaintt any attack of the enemy on our coati ? If is (Leh a cafe invafton lbould be aftually under taken, there would, I think, be furious ground for appreirenficn and alarm. From there confidera lions I deduce an opinion correlliondent to that of tie Ri,ltt Honourable Gentleman on the fame bench will: me, that the machinery of the volunteer fyficni is bad ; and that the prefent fylkm it never likely to produce loch a force, even with the aid of that Right Hon. Gentleman's (Mr. Pitt) utmott ability, as he profertes to entertain a hope of I am peifinaded that the volunteers will not anfieer .to ad with the regular army in the fi.:ld of bat tle, oppdied to the enemy's troops, as they are at pv:lct.t c ohilruncJ, nor to term the grottne!•work if fuels a force AS the Right I basouraFle Gentle man under the gallery has alluded 1 ntould have no oh . ;eetion to a general armament of thc pie under any circumttances when the country was in danger. But the Volunteers, in the lie ht which . t vies: them, cannot be confoleted as an arroing of the people. if they were to be fo confidered they were to numbers quite too weak, but if they were to be regarded as the foundation of a future army, as the Right Hon. Gentleman tinder the gallery has hinted, they were too far ;e. For the latter pm of fecro,cec men wou ld be to n much, and for the former one mil lion of nc_n would not be very c'-r -iderable. There fore, in either cafe, the volunteer fyftem is tinfaitablc. It (truck me as foniessitat ttrange in the Noble I ao it% dsfeription of the forces of the country, liIAC Le t,eser hated the pleat amount of the regular army, as contraditlinguiftied to the Nblitia. Why this was o i. l told, I cannot lay ; but no doubt it was not becaufe !key were In numerous that they craild not be corti.t. ed. The Volunteers feemed to be the favntiiiie jca of the Noble Lord's del s ct ipt ion, enumeration and posits No doubt the Volunteers ilk:nil - elves are juilly entitled to ! mud lay that the cha• e f the country is rot a•ivaeceil hr; the frequent :tn.:titian of loch applainfe. What, v. Is the Houle to feet fo Enoch elated at' it it Iv •-e matter of wonder tat 'alto the cowl'', was 'IC:- 1% 1 . dAllg.fri the people of EnAlanl were emulous to Rep forward a::d dcfend their homes against a French invader? In filch a crilis they had flood forth as was to be expelled, and in fuch numbers that Minifters thought proper to refill their increafe, and yet they were not likely to afford all the utility of caherwile confirmed, they would have been capable—what a melancholy reflection ! Among the other ohjeEtions of the Right Honourable Gen tleman on the fime b.:ltch with me, is that which he protclred to the manner of the volunteer doodl ing, an objearon of which I alto approve ;—and by thine who have commented upon it, I think it has been pot out a very wrong footing. Ido not like giving men red coati merely to give them the ap pearance of foldiers, without the material ingredients nerclier yto form filch characters. When I hear Mi lliners talking of the propriety of dreflinglhe Volun teers in military uniforms, I afle.do they merely mean that the French troops &odd take them for foldiers? (.4 Laos/). As marked batteries are Wed- is war, perhaps you mean to right the French in mafquerade, cr do you mean to hold nut the Volunteers as mere targets to be fired at ? You might make much ufe of them in various other ways, but you &limy their utility by attempting to make them foldiers. No man will think me apt to favour any fyftem op polite to Civil Liberty; but yet 1 cannot help ray ing, that nothing appears to me more abfurd than the idea of making men effedive foldiers for the refift ance or attack of an effective regular army, without martial law or military difcipltne. By this projed of the Volunteers you fend men to impede the movements of your regular force, which might be employed moft 'lrefully to annoy the enemy in vari ous ways, to protect the villages, in fad by other means to defend the invaded agaioli the invader; but the battle in the field se kb the troops of the in vader mull he fought by our regular army ; and the victory to our arms in fuch a contelt will, I hope and truft, ever be the refult. The profped of victory to us, indeed, is flrengthened by the various advantages which always prefent themielves to the invaded coun try. Upon there advantages, independently of the gallantry of our regular troops, we reckon with jolt grounds of concience, if we could look to the ;Olive Alliance of an armed pearantry ; but where are they to be found ?—they are abforbed in the Volunteers I What I would...A is,to fee all men in their properpla ces,the foldier in the at my, the peafant in the country, and the people throughout in that fituation where they could be employed each in his proper department. It may be obferved that it is inconfiftent in me, who lak year approved of the reduction of the regular army,' now to call for its inereafe ; but the times, it is to be recolleded, are fumcwhat different: we were laft year at peace, and whether I may he confidered nature's fool, or the Chancellor of the Exchequer's (a laugh), I certainly did think that peace would continue, and at the commencement of the war I Rated very fully the reafons why I thought it might with proper ma nagement, and ought to he preferved ; but if I was nature's fool in thinking the peace of Amiens likely to continue, the Chancellor of the Exchequer certainly took a great deal of pains, gave many flattering de. fcriptions, and ufed all the arguments is his power to confirm me in my folly. Under the influence, there. fore, of that folly, I recommended the decreafe of our armed force at the commencement of the lift felfion. With the hope expreffed by the Right lion. Gentle man under thegallery, 'heartily join,that we (hall not long confine ssurfelves to mere defenfive war ; that fo loon as circumftances favour the pried, we Ilion proceed upon vigorous offenfive war—'hat we (hall not always limit our glory to the mere fecurity of our own country; and that we (hall not fufferinurfelves, according to the old obfervatinn, " to be fwallowed up in the Cbaanel." Out what defeription of offen fi ve operations does the Right Hon. Gentleman deem pradicable wlh the prelent conftrudiOn of our armed force ? If ever the invalion of Ireland were attempted by the enemy, and that they actually landed a confi derable force, would he feel it fate to fend any mate rial propos tion of our regular army to that country, leaving England to the defence of the Volunteer, ? I for myfelf Ihould deprecate any fuch idea. I beg to be undcrftood ditiindly, as meaning no difrefped whatever in what I have Waved to the individuals who corn pole the Volunteer Corps, who are deferving, I am confident, plan theregard I feelfor their motives. A friend of mine, indeed, has lately taken occafion to place me in their ranks. I know hie motive was kind' in toafting my nameas a private in the ChertfeyCorps; but I am obliged to decline the honour lie intended me, for this plain reafon. that I never WAS a private in that Corps; nor should I tecome one in any Corps, be. cattle I would not undertake a ifituation, the duties of which I am not competent to perform ; my age dif. qualifies me for i;; I could not endure the fatigues of a '. (oldie r'slite. it may be laid that the influence of exam ple ought to be confidered, and probably, from that comlderation, moll of his Majefty's Ministers have be come. Volunteers, bit: what kind of example are they likely to give? Why, Wale French thould invade this country,they would immediately defert, (alosc/t) for theymu ft ci th r deka theirofficesor the volunteereorps and it is eafy to judi;e what choice they would male. No doubt they would, presioufly to their defertion, apelogife to the corps they might belong to, that a necellary attendance to their mistitet ial duties obliged them to depart. And what would be the effea of foch apologies on the different corps? Why this— That it would be a precedent to jollity the defertion of every other Volunteer who could affign any plau fible r eamo of trrianz &c. This vaunted in fluence of example, however, is quite of a piece with the theatrical oftentatit.us foppery of the Volunteer &Item, which (*cents only tit to be put on the top of a hill to be looked at. " !cannot help repeating the opinion which I gave 141 and upon r.shtch a motion was ineffeetui ally made in this Houle; namely, I'hat there thould be a relponfible military authority, to which the par. I;amcnt and the people might look for the whole eon. dnfl of the army department. I have great per. I inal rcipe3 for his Royal High:l , ft the Cimmansfer in Chief, bnt I am perfuaded, from my petfonal knowledge of his chat-after, t!.a . , he would not be !leafed with the flattery that he 'is himfeif capable of the a ery difficult talk of governing' this depart. milt it requires, above all, that the scfpontibi lity Psould be clear and pofitive. I may be allowed to fa), tl:at there is an obilacle in his high birth to t;.e refporifibility which belongs to his fituarion. There a delicacy iii quellioning the mealiares of a perfrinage cf his illuatious re.ak, which dctz:s men LI rcusl from the duty of calling him to account. It is not too ! much to fay, that ail the arrangements of the military fyllem far the lan iiimmer have been uniteady, vateil- Wing and capricious. Early in the fummer a ttaff was appointed, which, to lay nn voile of it, gave cc,nlider able furprize to military men. Generals were air pointed to the corms:arid of diflriftt-, who no doubt had jun pretentious to employment, but men were difpofed to enquire why others of the greate it experi ence, gallantry, and di iinnion were omitted ? Names were miffed that, in A situation of. the country fo I critical, ought, in the public opinion, to have been the firft thought of. Thus it was conceived that Lord Cornwallis was not In old as to be overlooked ; and furely his Noble Friend, Earl Moira was not fo deftitute of aftivity, zeal, energy, and experience as to be left unemployed. And yet, in the lard in- Rance, his name was not to be found. A general promotion, however, took place, and this altered the arrangement. Lord lititchinfon, who had been em ployed at firft, was now put off the Staff, and Earl Moira was molt properly appointed to the chief com mand in Scotland—an appointment which gave him the higheil fatisfaftion, as it mull do to every one who truly regarded the defence of the country; brit why, if the Noble Earl was props to be trolled with a great military nation in Oariber, was he ofcrlooked in May? It was anfwered to all this, That it was the King's prerogative to change his Generals, and that he might change them every day. Moil true it is his prerogative, but his Minifter are refponlible for the ezercife of this prerogative capriciop fly. The country have a right to the employment of the belt talents and experience that the army can fapaly, and the cha rafters of Officers are an effential part of the public ftrength. Men are not to be changed by caprice.— Where nothing has happened to alter the circumftan ea, it betrays a levity incontinent with the character of a itrong and efficient Government to change, take Officers up, and put them down without a rea fon affigned, or an an argument of any kind. Every part of - the fervice had been left to chance. Even in railing the Army of Referve, there was a thameful want of attention. After men had paid 4oL or 50. to find a fubftitute for the Army of Referve, and that the fubltitute had marched to the appointed rendez vous, he found no one there to receive him. This bad happened in many inftances, and the fulAitut es net knowing what to do with themfelves or their mo. ney, bad decreed in poll chaifes and four. Was there ever an Adminiltration fo trulted, fo fispported—fo left with almolt uncontrolled power as the prefentr. with the fpirit of the country railed to the higheft euthufiafm—with no party differences to motel them -with the Lords Lieutenants of the Counties all eager to fecond their views ; and yet what had they done with all this power ? Had it not been the chief employment of thole Lords Lieutenants to com prebend the initruCtions they had received—the ex planation of the explanations had occupied altnoll all their time ; and not r rely in regard to the tivnals in Norfolk, but to air their •fyflem there had beers fuch a fyllem of confufion, enntradietion and vat-cil iation as to make it impotlible for the proper officers to underftand what they were to do. lam fpeaking now of the Military fyitem, not of their boalted In come Aft. . " ['here is an inflance of a near relation of my own, which in a very high degree proves the capricious man na in which th e y hay,: aged. isly relation was tent to be the Commander in Chief in Ireland; an appointment of much difficulty, and which with all my ref - pea and natural confidence in him I did not contemplate with perk& cafe. But he was appoint ed nn the breaking out of the war, and went to Ire land. The horrible affair of the 23d July happened —and Pion alter he was recalled, or, as it is laid, he refgned. It certainly is true, he dared to be re called, but it is equally true that he had region to be lieve that the civil power of Ireland wifhed him to re fign. He accordingly did In, and no former was he arrived in England than he was entrulled with an important command, to as to thew that his Majefty had ;aerie& confidence in him. Now, what was to be inferred from this condud ? If he had not done his duty on the 23d July, or had fuffered himfelf to be furprifsd, he furely Was, not fit to ba put into a place of high military trull here. A with eip r ef. fed on the part of the Irilh Government, that he (hould be recalled, impl:ed that they were not fatisfied with his conduit ; or that they whited to throw from themfelves upon him the imputation of blame for that trarifaelion. I truth that other opportunities will occur for lifting this affair to the bottom. I have no heti; tation in laying, that from all I have been able to collet on the cubic& the Government of Ireland was taken completely by furprife. That the Lord Lieute nant told the Commander in Chief he did not believe there would be any riling in Dublin on the very day when it happened, and that ao notice even was fent to the Lord Mayor of the City to take precautions. I am warranted in laying, that when the melancholy tumult did happen, thc Government teemed de firous to infinuate blame on the Commander in Chief. In the peels of Dublin, a prels not totally free from the controul of the Cattle, a pararaph appear. eel, Rating that the Commander in Lliief was my brother, and fira coulin to the Duke of Leinller and the Fitzgeralds. What was the obvious meaning of this hint, it is eafy to divine. But all men who know that officer, and are acquainted with his habits, arc nut to be told that no man court be found who has mixed leis with politics, or with parties, than his re. lation. The fafl is, that the Government of Ireland teemed to have no fear, but that the people of Dub lin lhould bs alaimed. They would nut beliesce in the infurreflion. They faid it would blow away ; and when it happened, they were dcfirous of toning the blame from therufelves to that general officer. There is but one other topic of the fame fort of incrinfifiency, but in a more effmtial inftancer which I than allude; I mean the fituation of the Heir Apparer.:. After thc handfome and gallant offers that he had made el military farvice, MC find that his Royal H:glinefs is not employed, nor any reafon aligned for rejeCting his application. Here again it is laid to be his Majellfs prerogative. Are we, then, to underhand that his Majelly's prerogatiFe is to ab folute, that his cord to be every thing, and public opinion nothing ! The habits of the Prince's life, his talents, his love of the i.:my as a profeflian. as well as the high into ed %Ouch the public naturally took in his feelings, made it trial definable that he Ihould be employed. It would have been a molt gra. tifying es.ample to the nation. No matt attached be toe IOUS ilouL of I:zeal - wick but putt have rejoiced to fee him chafing with the reople in their efforts and fervice iu lbpport of the Crown. Gon for bid that the ftruggle that,' ever come to be made ; but if it than, what example could be It, animating as that of the Prince of IVaies ? And what man will lay that his proper place was at the head of a mere regiment of Light Dragoons? He has been long in the army. It is his favourite profellion, and though mere rank in ordinary t.mes could be of no confequence to him, yet it mull be grating to his feelings to be let afide, while every other branch of his family was entrulted with corn. mand.. Was it to be the policy that he was to be ker. like an eaflern Prince, fear that he fhould acquire popularity ? I cannot enter into the motives that diitated fuch conduit, nor is it fit for "'ornament to overlook the indignity thus offered to his Royal High. nets. his fit to fignify the impreflion that it has made upon their minds, and to mark with their point ed reprobation the advice which Milliners have given, to his Majelly on this filbjed. The only rca6in a ga.rd_ it teems is, that there was momewhere an alarm of his acquiring popularity. I fee no ear thly advantage that it could be to any one to Rand in the way of his difplaying the talents, gallantry, and patriotifm of his charaiter."—Mr. Fox concluded with reafferting; his opinion, that to reinforce the regular army, and to male the Volunteer Syllcm as nearly as poll:bin to a levy en pt t, was the heft mode of fccuring this defence of the country. 'l'heCu a tics csoleoftheExc N EQr E Pt prole fredhimfelf,, if the term was to be applied, to be • great a foul asthe Hon. Gentleman had been reprefented, as to his belief in the fincerity of the French Government with re fpeEt to the Treaty of Amiens He then conceived thatit .was the true intereft and policy of that Go vernment to cultivate peace with this country. But looking to that view of their difpofition more than to any conviition of their general good faith, he thought that a much larger peace eftablifhment fhould be maintained than we had formerly been t accullomed to, and the fad was, that the reduitions in the regulars did not exceed 7eloo men, of whom 3000 were in valids. He then !lightly adverted to what had fallen from the preceding fpeaker, on the recall of the Commander in Chief of Ireland, and argued, that that meafure no more implied, in itfelf, any cenfure on his conduit than the recal of Sir Ralph Abercrom bie had thrown an imputation on the charader of that lamented Officer. Both meat:urea had been oc cafioned by imperious circutnftances, whi-h did not imply'any cenfure in either cafe. As to the Prince of Wales he would repeat, what he bad (fated on a former occafion, that nothing but the exprefs com mands of his Majefly, or the unan:mous refolution of that Houfe, could induce him to enter into any ex planation on the lubjeß of the demands of his Royal Highnefs, and the motives which led to their rejec tion. He might, however, elk, why the Right Hun. Gentleman had not taken up the Winds in the years 1795, 96, when a fimilarrefufal was made by his Majesty ? Mr. Fox obferved, that the Right Hon, Gentle man had a very convenient way of getting over dif ficulties. In regard to the Prince of Wales, the Right Hon. Gentleman was determined not to fay a word ; and in regard to General Fox he evaded the queftion. Here war (Bence for a Prince, and evalioa for a General. The Right Hon. Gentleman had laid that the prefent Government of Ireland was more moderato in their principles, and more popular than any former Government ref that country. Were the late meafures of Parliament a proof of this afiCrtion I Was the Sufpenfion of the Habeas Corpus Ad, was the introdudion of military law into that country a proof of the conciliatory difpofition of the Govern ment, or was it natural to fuppofe,that fuch meafures would lead to popularity ? Mr. Sac AAAAA Y You entered into a jullification of the Lord Lieutenant in regard to General Fox: He gave a fhort narration of the affairs of the 2_301 July—and laid that his Excellency had fent for Go. neral Fox, and told him of the intended riling. He owned, however, that the Government knew nothing of the depot of arms—that they had not apprifed the Lord Mayor, but he could not fit and bear the Lord Lieutenant,attacked without attaching, if blame watt to be imputed, equally as the Commander in Chief. Mr. Fox, in reply, challenged him to the enquiry. and of him whether the Lord Lieutenant did not fay to General Fox, that he did oot believe in the rising, and that *he wifhed that no alarm Ibould be given to the people of Dublin by preparation ?. He Aced alto, whether afterwards, in eonfequence of, fume (leps taken by General Fox , the Lord L ie u te. turn had not written to him, laying, S , that be flap-. poled, from what lie was doing, that he bad received other information ?" Admiral B wiffied . to be informed in po fitive terms, whether Gen. Fox been told on the a3d, that it was exed that a riling would take place in the City of Dub in on that night ? Mr. Secretary YORKS faith he only knew that the General had been at the Cattle on that day. and he underflood that information had been that morning given to the Lord Lieutenant, which he thought It was mot likely that he would have communicated. Mr. CURRY defended the Iri(h Government at con fiderable length from any imputation of neglect. Lord de Etat:ollU laid, that in his opinion blame, the moth flagrant blame, attached fomewhere. Colonel Hos-meson Paid, it was his moll fervent will that fuch refponfibility fhould be brought down upon the heads of thole who deprived the State of the (crake which even the pretence of an illuftrious perfonage might afford, if in his proper nation, at the preterit crifis. But though he hoped to lee fuch conduit punilhed leveret', as it deferred, the Relo lotions which were then belore the Houle for the de fence of the nation had his warmest fupport. Mr. Pyre obferved that the number of the forces and the espence dated in the Ettimate Ihould meet w i t h hi s fpport. But he begrd to be underilood, that he did not pledge hinitell any further than the Hon. Gentleman who had jolt fat down, with relpera to any thing which might be considered as cunneacd with the fubjed in any other point of view. After a few other obfervations between Mr. Pitt and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Refolu 6,ms were re. , cl and agreed to, and the report order ed to be recr4ed ot. Monday.—Adjourried. LONDON : Priut.:d and publithed by I 1.1•71. KENT. (of Can- LornbctS,) at the STAR ()ruler. No. a. Cour Ernst. P u4lltb 4ad at tio. STAR Or a:I. 1 lAnjok Bat. F 1 1 it 1,,,1 •' 1 . 1 1 i 1 I 1 \ . 1 1 I t ' I I' 1 , 1 i , 1 li • it i, i ‘ , i , , 1 . t . 1 . 1 •` ti