Star. — London, England, 1822-06-13 00:00:00

- 7 - - ' 7- .`--' 4 O - ' 4 " 71"T'; 4 • • \ • 1• .. . . • t ..% •• • • . . • ":4 r< • . . t Ay. ~. •; ~;~: N ~.. PA IA EVTARY PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF LORDS. JUNE 12. Their Lordships met at ten o'clock, to hear Appeals. Aasevr, Appellant ; Setwaux ' Respondent. This was ari appeal from the Court o fS ess i o n,Scotiand. The Arrontier-Gexess4 was heard in reply.—Judgment postponed. Loa°, Appellant; Rammo, Respondent. This was an appeal from the Court of Exchequer. The Judges attended at twelve o'clock and delivered their opinions. Judgment postponed. Acura - , Appellant; M'NeiLL AND Omens, Respondents. This was an appeal from the Court of Session, Scotland. The Arroawmr-Ginumax was heard for the appellant—Further hearing postponed. Mr. litrroursols and others brought tip from the Commons the Cork Market Bill, which was read a Srbt time. Mr. TRUNDLI from the Chief Secretary's Office in Ireland, presented the Third Report of the Commissioners of Irish Fisheries.—Laid on the table. Mr. WALTCRS, from the Court of Kings Bench, and Mr. Brut, from that of the Comm on Pleas, presented Returns from the Judges of those two Courts pursuant to the Order of the House.—Laid on the table. The Vagrant Laws Amendment Bill was read a third time and passed. The Warrant of Attomiei Bill went through a Committee and was reported. The Recognizances Bill was read a second time. The Irish Deeds Registry Bill went through a Committee and was ordered to be reported to-morrow. The Sheriffs' Depute Bill was read a third time and sent to the Commons, alter receiving some verbal amendments moved by the Earl of LAUDERDALL Lord ELLEN BOROUGH had been requested by a Neale Lord opposite net to press his motion for going into a Commit tee on the Marriage Act in the absence of the Noble Earl at the head of the Treasury. Although aware of the inconvenience of delay in a matter of such importance as the present Bill, be should comply with the request, and should only move the Or der of the Day, for the purpose of discharging it and fixing it for Tuesday next, for which day he should also move that their Lordships be summoned. —Agreed to. The Manslaughter Bill went through a Committee and the Report was received.—Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. Masoy, from the East India Company, presented Copies of the proceedings of the Court of Directors.—Ordered to lie on the table. Sir T. WINNINGTON presented a Petition from certain Proprietors of Hop Plantations in the Counties of Worcester acid Hereford, praying for an abatement of the Hop Duty.— Qrdered to lie on the table. Mr. DAWSON moved that h Return of all Committals to Houses of Correction under the Game Laws should be laid be- fore the House.—Ordered. Mr. NOLAN withdrew his motion respecting Poor Laws in Ireland till the 27th instant. On the motion of Mr. Cosewm, a Return of the quantity of spirits imported into England (Irish spirits excepted), and the du ties paid on the same, were ordered to be laid before the house. Dlr. CA L VERT moved that there sirmld be laid before the House an Account of the number of pounds weight of tobacco on which duty had been paid for home consumption, from 1809 to 18C2 ; and also for Accounts of tobacco seized within the 'awe periode--Ordered. The Report of the Caledonian Asylum Bill was brought up and agreed to. The Report of the Brokers' Regulation Bill was brought up, and ordered to be taken into consideration on 31onday. Mr. GOULI3CRN postponed. his motion for leave to bring in a Bill to renew the Insurrection Act till the 18th inst. Mr. C. DUNDAS presented a Petition from the Parish of Noleitighann in Berkshire, complaining of Distress, which they considered to have beer. increased by the restoration of the cur rency. They prayed to b; relieved from the burdens which were now so severely felt, and expressed an opinion that a general lucerne Tax on actual property, accompanied by the repeal of other taxes, would be a just measure.—The Petition was ordered to be printed. The Irish Land Revenue Bill was read a second time, and corninit:ed for to-morrow. The C'entuittee 0.1 the Irish Constables' Bill was postponed till F.iday, the 21st instant. Sir J. NEW I'ORT wished to withdraw the Irish Payment of Rent Bill, but doing so, he by no means wished to be understood as giving up the principle on which it was founded. He should certainly bring it forward again in a future Session. Ile moved that this Bill should be read a second time on that day three months.—The motion was agreed to. Mr. GREN FELL understood it to be intended that the ad journed debate should come on early iu the evening. Ile wished to know whether it was intended to proceed with the Naval and Military Pensions Bill, as he intended to oppose one clause, that which granted the Bank a per centage on the management of the Loans? Mr. LUSH! NGTON said, it was not intended to bring on the Bill last night.--En answer to a question Irons Mr. Gerei reet, the Hon. Gentleman added, that no alteration of the sum heretofore allowed to the Bank for managing a Loan (£3OO per million) was contemplated at present.—The Committee on the Bill was postponed till Friday. Sir JOHN NEWPORT obtained leave to bring in a Bill for regulating Grand Jury Presentments in Ireland. Mr. COKE presented a Petition from the Owners and Oc cupiers of Land in the Hundred of Ilenstead, in the County of Norfolk, complaining of Agricultural Distress.—Ordered to be printed. The lion. Member then presented a similar Petition from Chepway, in the same county.—Ordered to be printed. Mr. CURTEIS presented Petitions from several Parishes in the County of Sussex, complaining of Agricultural Distress. — Ordered to he printed. Sir F. 031 Al A NEY presented a Petition from the Proprie tors of London Bridge Water Works, relative to the proposed new Bridge.—Referred to a Committee. PETITION FROM NORTHAMPTON. Lord ALTHORPE had a Petition to present from. the Owners and Occupiers of Land in the County of Northampton, and thought it right to state some cir-i cumstances connected with the Meeting E which it had been voted. A Requisition, signed by four hun dred and thirteen individuals, had been presented to the High Sheriff, requesting him to call a Meeting of the Nobility, Gentry, and others. The High She riff had refused to comply with their wish. He (Lord Althorpe) had the honour to know that Gentleman, and was sure that he had acted from no bad motive, but he thought in this instance he had not exercised a sound discretion. The Petitioners complained of Agricultural Distress, arising from excessive taxation. They declared it would be impossible for them to continue to cultivate their land unless relief were afforded. They therefore prayed for a repeal of taxes to such an amount as should enable them to cultivate their land and exercise their industry as formerly ;--1 and they expressed an opinion that the country would not have been in the situation in which it was at this mwrient had the People been adequately represented in that House. He agreed with every word contained in the Petition, which had been signed by six or seven bundled freeholders, and thought it entitled to their serious consideration. Mr. CARTWRIGHT remarked, the case had been so fairly stated by the Noble Lord that he had no occasion to say much. He was decidedly of opinion Ministers ought to make every retrenchment in power, consistent with the dignity of the State good faith towards the public creditor. It was that the burdens thrown on the country by the necessary war were great, but he was afraid, igh taxes to the amount of 4,000,0001. were taken n the course of the present Session, that even this Id afford the sufferers but little relief. He was surprised to find that between six and seven hun ' freeholders had signed this Petition, as it had - - . i '.':. •l . . % . •. • • ' *.! ''' 'l* l• L ,I ••• • . . . .." . , , :.. ... . . • ' *. t • .. .- . . . . . . • '- •,. Vhi ftin . 4 been sent all oyetdie County for stittuturea...Aftal ' iIOCfrANCELLORof the InECII ad - , C it y of money in the country Wis tdo small . for the sed extent of the population. It was no vronder, there: all the. Petition wail only that of the individuals who , mined that, bi some intances, the duty impo had signed it, and, considering the efforts that had might hold oUt a tenipta6on to snsuggling; but he , fore, that all commodities decreased in value. F or been made, it was remarkable 'that bu t sit or seven was far from thinking that the repeal of the duty I the iast two or three years they had been living under hundred freeholders had signed it out four thousand, would givi to the Revenue in increased consumption the influence of philosophers.and wild theorists ; tint which the County contained. He wished now to say that which it would loseby such repeal. their strange speculations had involved themselve s a word or two with respect to the conduct of the The Petition was then brought up and read, and ; and the cations, through thei House of Commons inpamphlets eternal difficulties and High Sheriff. The Noble Lord had done justice to ordered to be printed. stultifir matters that Gentlernati's upright intentions. If there were CURRENCY OE THE COUNTRY. of political economy, consisting, as many of those any man free from party motives it was the High The Order of the Day was read for resuming the pamphletractually did, of five or six hundred page s Sheriff. Tip farmers, persons certainly of great re- debate on the tesumption of Cash Payments. each. These reminded him of ..vhat had been said spectability, had called on the High Sheriff with the Mr. G. BEN ET, before proceeding to make the of such political economists in 1810, viz. that they Requisition. On looking over it, he perceived that few observations which be was anxious to offer to the resembled the philosopher in Rasselas, who believed it was not signed by a single Gentleman of the County. House, begged that certain Resolutions come to by himself entrusted with the regulation of she wind and He, therefore, declined calling the Weting; but said, the House on the 14 th M a y , 1811, mi g ht be read by weather, and was Constantly endeavouring to alter if they would bring Win another Requisition, with the Clerk, in order that the House should have the both. He should vote H. GURNEY saidfor the s ober he he first heard the names of any of the Nobility or G entr y attached subject more fully before them. Mr. , that to it, he would immediately comply with their wishes. 'The Clerk then read from the Journals the Reso- the notice of the Hon. Member for Essex, he did not In declining to act on the Requisition first presented, lotions come to in 1811, declaring promissory note i s think he should vote for it. Even now he felt onto he avoided all interference with the right of petition- of the Bank of England to be equal in public ests- di ffi culty in voting fur this motion for inquiry; but ing, as it Was open for the p arties to call a Meeting oration for all lawful purposes to a like amount with without any hesitation he should vote against the as they had since done; but for the High Sheriff to the coin of the realm, and declaring the situation of Amendment of the Right Hon. Gentleman oppo s i t t have called a Meeting of the Nobility and Gentry of the country, with respect to foreign Powers, to be (Mr. Huskisson). He wished the private Bankers' the County, when not one of them had signed the sufficient, in the judgment of the House, to account notes should have been first suppressed, rather than Requisition, would have been a new proceeding. for the unfavourable state of the foreign exchanges the one pound notes of the Bank of England, because Sir J. NEWPORT was of opinion th e Hi g h Sheriff and the high price of bullion. he held it to be next to an impossibility to come to a ought to have called a Meeting, on a Requisition Mr. BENNET then proceeded to explain the rea- proper metallic currency, while the country Bankers being forwarded to him with the names of four hun- sons which influenced him in giving his vote as he were allowed to issue small notes. dred freeholders attached to it, whether the Gentry proposed to do in favour of the Hon. Gentleman's Mr. LEYCESTER was for going into a Commit had signed it or not. ,motion. He now saw that the measure had produced tee, on account of the awful nature of the question; Mr. COKE spoke in support of the Petition, and much calamity, and although he was not prepared and because the Right Hon. Gentleman had neither adverting to the course pursued by the Hon. Gentle- to say that he would advise that they should retrace shewn that we were on the eve of anational bankruptcy man opposite (Mr. Cartwright) he admitted that he all their steps, he was ready to say that an inquiry nor whether our evils were to be pratracted s or ter had a right to choose his own line of conduct, but ought to take place, in order to ascertain whether or minated. If his Hon. Friend was right, place and the country had a right to do as much, and he hoped not it was in the power of Parliament to supply a re- pensions ought to be reduced, not ten per cent. but at the proper time they would remember what his medy. Ile had heard much of the speech of the forty per cent. But perhaps Gentlemen opposite clia conduct had been, and mark their sense of it by Ri g ht Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Huskisson) on the not like that the unwelcome disclosure should be choosing for their Representatives those who would preceding night with pleasure. No man was better made. Perhaps they did not wish this light to be more honourably and independently represent them. acquainted than he could be with the evils resulting let in upon them. When it flashed on them, perhaps For the Country Gentlemen who had supported the from such variations of our system. But with what they might say- 7 Government through the late necessary war, they temper could the Right Honourable Gentleman and " Poi nee oecidistis, smote, Aron wry& stis, oil ; cui sic esiorio volupias, well deseived what they had now got. But for them the Noble Marquis near him hear the remarks which Ei &input per vim mastis grousdrous crr,le !" the counts y would not now have been in its present had been made on the fatal consequences of tamper- —(llear, Hear.) —The use of a Committee would be ruined and calamitous situation. He felt no pity for ing with the currency of a country, when they knew to shew the exact form and pressure of the times ; them, but he lamented the distress of the Yeomanry. that they were the persons who had done this, and and he thought the only cure for the evils we suf- He wished Ministers knew the real situation of the who had brought us to the state in which we now fered under was to reduce all our establishments at ' country. In that case he could not believe they found ourselves. They had begun by cheating the least one-third. Against reducing the Annuit - ei, or would go on as they did at present. Il e ho p ed the p ublic creditor, and now they had cheated the pub- repealing Mr. Peel's Bill, he would vote on all mu ', example set by the county of thirfolk would be fol- lic debtor, so that no class in the community had sions. It had turned us from being a nation of spend ' lowed, and that Petitions would be sent not onl y escaped them. He defended his Honourable Friend's thrifts and swindlers to become honest, discreet, and from every county, but from every hundred in every_ view of the past depreciat i o n of currenc y . The Ho- prudent men. Nothing was so bad as vacillation— county, and if this wet e done, it would n ot be in the nourable Member then stated the prices of various we had gone too far to recede—we power of a corrupt Government, or in the power of commodities, in order to shew the general depression " Stept in so far, that, should we wade no more, that House to prevent the voice of the People from of the currency. , He contended that the tamperings Returning were u tedious as go o'er!'' - being heard. with the currency had been so many violations com- —He thought Mr. Peel would not do right if he did Mr. CARTWRIGHT begged to be allowed to say mitted up n private property. It was to his Majesty's not follow up the operation of his Bill by supporting one word, after the very personal attack which had present Government that they owed all this; and all kinds of economy. been made on him. The lion. Gentleman was gene- now, after cheating all the interests of the country, Mr. HALDIMAND thought, by the Hon. Mem rally so much occupied with the affairs of Norfolk, came down to taunt his Honourable Friend below ber for Essex's arguments, the result was, that tl.ey that he had not expected him to travel out of his him for the proposal which he had made. They could have no cure for agricultural distress, bit uy course to make such an attack. Why this was done talked of keeping ,public faith, and he desired that a progressive rate of depreciation of currency from he did not know. He believed lie (Mr. Coke) had they s hould keep faith a ith the owners of other spe- day to day. But that depreciation must stop at seine spoken of him (M;. Cartwright) and others as having cies of property as well as the fundholder. It was particular point; and then it would be quite impos contributed to the ruin of the country, by supporting said that all private contracts were made with the sible to return to the state of proper currency from Ministers through the late war. In this he differed knowledge of the depreciation on the part of those which they had set out. Many charges had b •en from the Hon. .Gentleman. Ile (Mr. Cartwright) be- who so con t r acted. li e k new that some persons un- brought against the Bank in its transactions with the lieved that if Ministers had not been supported as derstond t h e subject; t h ose who were called political Public, which were totally unfounded. There wis they were, that the situation of the country would economists knew it; but the Public saw a declaration no pretence for any charge against the Bank, as long now have been much worse than it was at this mo- of that House, which they had just now heard read, as it paid its notes in gold. ment, and perhaps even that llon• Gentleman's estate that there was no depreciation whatever—(Hear').— Mr. RICARDO thought the Bank might do a would have been less secure than it was at present.— This was constantly asserted by Lord Liverpool, great deal of mischief by curtailing the amount of i:s True Hon. Gentleman had hoped the County would Lord Eldon, the Noble Lord opposite, and the Chan- issues. He should also consider the issues of gold remember him (Mr. Cartwright) on a fiiiiire .occa- cellor of the Exchequer. These were the names that coin so early by the Bank, as a most mischievous sion. He was much obliged to the Hon. Gentleman, ought to be sent forth to the People in connexion measut e ; for, by the Bill of Mr. Peel, they were only but when he talked of independence, as he was in the with the calamities they now endured, until they to be called on to do so in 1823. He also th ou ght habit of doing, he (Mr. Cartwright) would tell him, were familiar in men's mouths like household words. that the Bank should not have lowered its pap , r that he had acted as independently as the Hon. Gen- The Right Ilonourable Gentleman opposite had issues at once, but have kept them up until there deman could 1.10. He was conscious that he had stated correctly the fact of the alteration of the cur- could be no danger to the exchanges by a flow of acted from as good motives, and he should not have rency in the reign of William the Third ; but he gold into the country. He charged the Bank with been ashamed to meet his constituents at the Meeting ought to have looked to the circumstances of the making its purchases of gold so large, on account of which they lately wished to be called, nor should he times under which that alteration was effected. The the clamour raised by the execution of persons on be ashamed or afraid to meet them on that occasion fact was, that the Crown at that time was tottering account of Bank forgeries. The Member for Sod to which the Hon. Gentleman had alluded, though on the brow of its wearer, from the effects of the bury (Alderman Heygate) had said, we should first he was equally obliged to the lion. Gentleman for his most detestable Tory faction that ever existed. The have made the country bankers pay their 11. notec, good wishes. taxes which then pressed upon the people were as before they called on the Bank of' England to pay its After a few words from Mr. B. LESTER, the Peti- nothing compared to those which were now paid. notes in specie. It would have been of the most mis- Lion was read, and ordered to be printed. The interest of the Debt at the present time, and the chievous effect to allow that Leviathan to issue p iper TOBACCO, current expenses of one year, were greater than the at i ts will, while the countr y bankers were p revented Lord BELGRAVE presented a Petition from cer- sum extracted from the people during the whole of from doing so. The Hon. Gentleman would s , irely Lain respectable persons connected with the tobacco the glorious reign of William 111. The Honourable admit that sovereigns clipped to nine-tenths of their manufactory at Chester, complaining of the distressed Gentleman proceeded to condemn in strong language present value, were part of a depreciated currency, state of their trade. This they imputed to the in- those who supported the suspension °leash payments and that that would have a great effect on the price creased extent to which smuggling was carried on, in in 1797. Ile considered the £83,000,000 which had of all commodities? He defended himself from the consequence of the article being so heavily taxed.— been gained by the Bank Directors to have been so misrepresentation that he asserted gold to be an in- The Petitioners stated that they themselves could buy much pillaged from the country by the Government variable standard of value. All he had said was, that it for less, ready manufactured, than it would cost and the Parliament a hich entrusted such powers to it was less liable to variation than any other valuable them taananufacture it. If the Chancellor of the Ex- them as the administration of the currency. With commodity. He considered himself on his t rial ; and chequer were to reduce the duty, which was now 4 s. re g ard to those who had supported Ministers through- under this singular circumstance, that he was chat ged the pound, to 2s. he shewed, from a series of calculi- out the extravagant war, (he did not think himself with all the variations that had been made in the Lions, that the Revenue, instead of suffering, would more hard-hearted than other men), but he should not currency, though not one of his plans had twit be likely to gain £!5,000, in consequence of the be sorry to see those who had strutted into the House adopted. The Bank had had the management of our check which would thus be supplied to smuggling. Country Gentlemen, now feel the consequences of currency, with the best intentions in their way, but Mr. H. BRIGHT spoke to the extent of the evil, their co nduct fall u p on themselves, and crawl out without knowing anything of the nature of currency. and supported the prayer of the Petition, and de- paupers—( al laugh).—He should support the measure, In 1813 the Bank-note was only worth 14s. and from scribed the arrangements made in Holland for smug- because he knew not which way to turn to relieve that time it varied from that value to 16s. ll's. and gling. A most extensive establishment was now kept himself from the distress and confusion with which 19s. He therefore thought then, and now, that it to the currency up to prevent smuggling. heretofore it had been he was surrounded, and because he thought investi- was their wisest measure to return bad. He hoped its defects had now been corrected ; gation might lead them to some course from which and standard as it formerly stood. It was quantity but he was sure that the best way of checking the such relief might be discovered. that regulated value in everything, but particularly evil was to diminish the duty, so that smuggling Mr. Alderman HEYGATE said, that no Member, in currency ; and but for the Mint being open, the should no longer present such tempting profits to by voting for the motion, pledged himself to return Bank might have made the 11. note equal in value to those who were disposed to engage in it. to a paper currency, for he never would consent to two sovereigns. If the Hon. Member for Essex wished Sir J. NEWPORT had endeavoured, over and that ; but he t hought no one would say that the contr. to regulate our standard by the quantity of corn, over again, to impress upon the Chancellor o f the try was in such a state of prosperity as to preclude they would be constantly altering the value of clic Exchequer that smuggling could only be effectually the necessity of any inquiry into the effect which a currency. It was in vain for Locke and Adam Smith repressed by diminishing the duty. He corroborated return to cash payments had had on the various inte- to say that corn was a less variable measure of value the statement of the Hon. Gentleman who h a d j ust rests in the country. We had raised the real value of than gold or silver ; for how did they know that ? sat down, with respect to the smuggling establish- our coin, so that we had raised the interest on the forrn was steady in its value so must gold and merits formed by the Dutch. He was confident t h a t National Debt five per cent. and, therefore, he would Se, Which were the measure of that value. Or. t!: . ti if the Chancellor of the Exchequer looked into the vote for going into a Committee, with a view to in- contrary, he thought corn was one of the most vat:- subject, uninfluenced by the representations of those stitute a s eignorage on our coin, like other nations on able commodities in its value that could be. All in:- who were interested in su pporting the present system, the Continent; and there could be no period more provements in agriculture had the effect of lowering that he would see the best policy would be to reduce favourable for a measure of that kind to be carried the value of it. The Member for Essex had made the duty ; and doing that, he had no doubt he would into effect, both with justice and honour. The sys- calculations of the payments of taxation by the value increase the Revenue. tem of paying in gold bars had been totally aban- of wheat, but that would be found to have been as Mr. H. GURNEY supported the Petition. Mr. LUSHINGTON said, Gentlemen had spoken doned ; and now they were left to all the evils arising .var i a ble as an y other commodit y . He, therefore,wai from payments in coined gold. We were not even certain that the price of corn must rise if the pretTut as if smuggling had largely increased, and as if the left to the option of having Bank one pound notes or was not a remunerating price for it; for everything Revenue ware on the decline. Both these facts he de- gold coin as we pleased. In the one case, there was must become scarce, and consequently increase la Med. Smuggling had decreased ; and to prove that little temptation to hoard one pound Bank of Eng- value, when a remunerating price was not to be ob - the Revenue had not declined, he had only to refer to land notes; but we had been made the unwilling in- tamed for it. All things dependent on agriculture which were on the table of the House.. the accoun ts struments of persons of large property hoarding up were redundant in production. He contended that With respect to Ireland, the duty on tobacco had con- io tr considerable sums jogold coin. He was neither the fdl ld hadsuffered • • the 1. 'di ILI • pre. eunio el as troll as an siderably increased in the last nine months. pared to return to a paper currency, nor to . delis:cam and farmer. All alterations in the currency must be Lord BELGRAVE inquired if he would go back coin; for he could not think a seignorage could be of bad effect at first; but he had hoped that thi s with the comparison rest, through the last three years ? considered as fraudulent debasement b ut the . 0 ld have been allowed to remain at • ' van-, question K U _ . .... . . 1 ' I that IN ' l l i their and g true t late r thou off in wouli not si dyed