Star. — London, England, 1831-02-12 00:00:00

~R~!1 .': 4 . IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, FEE. 11. The Earl of RADNOR presented a petition from Renfrew for ex rsion of the elective franchise, and one from Wargrave, in the county a Hats, for reduction of tithes. lEPORM IN PARLIAMENT. Lord FARNHAM presented a petition from two pasha in the county of Aleath praying for parliamentary reform and the adop tion of the vote by ballot, triennial Parliaments, and that all house holders be allowed to vote at elections. The noble lord said be sus one who lamented extremely that an opinion should have gone out, that all the distresses of the country arose front misrepresen tation. A noble Earl (Grey) bad stated that it was in the con templation of his Majesty's Government to bring forward a ape. citic measure on that subject, which would not occasion any alarm i mongst those who were attached to the institutions of the country. He could not wish for any premature information from his Majesty's tiovernment, but he considered it a subject of so much importance that they ought not to be called to legislate without information re. fretting the present state of representation in Parliament. They bad no It:formation, and therefore he thought something was neweitary to rut them in possession of the subject, and which would enable them, it the intended measure ever reached that house from the other branch of the legislature, to go regularly into the question. One course might be enquiry in a Committee, or a document might be laid on the :3 1,.e which at one view would enable them to compare the present repre ,entation, with that which was to be brought in for the gratification of the p u blic wish. The Noble Lord was desirous with that view of the subject of asking the Noble Earl whether any such information as that to which he had alluded would be laid on the table before the measure came up from the other House ? If it was not the intention of his' .Majesty's Government to furnish information, he should certainly move for such documents as he considered necessary ; but, at the same time, he bad not the least desire to interfere with the plan to be brought for ward. They had frequently read statements and plans of Reform in Ilick books, red books, and newspapers, but all were without authority. lie should like to see some document upon the table on which they could rely, for a correct account of the present state of representation. Earl GREY—The Noble Lord is desirous of further information respecting the important question of Reform, before it shall come to this house. I had thought any information necessary beyond that which has been brought forward during the discussions of forty years, I should have placed It on the table ; but as there have been various opinions (sprouted as to the right of voting, the mode in which such voting takes Flue sum be generally knoan. It has not been usual to lay informa tion on the table on such occasions ; but if the Noble Lord should ;hink proper to call for any information, and will communicate to me the nature of that information, I will not throw any ob struction in the way, provided it shall appear to be necessary, and have no tendency to delay a measure which has made great impression upon the public mind, and which it is necessary so bring on without the least delay, and thereby put an end to agitation. (Hear, hear.) As to reference to a committee, I should have considerable objection.— Such committees have been moved for in the other house, and the argu ments against them have been, that they were going into a loose in quiry, the result of which could not be satisfactory. (Hear, hear.) It has been the object of his Majesty's Government, enabled as they are by long experience, to form a solid judgment on the whole question. They have thought it best to adopt a measure in the shape of a bill, which must shortly be brought before Parliament, and discussed on its merits, and with a view to those defects on the representation which are acknowledged and felt by the great mass of the public. To regain the confidence of the people in the i:gislature of the country, it is necessary to remove these defects, 'fiat noble lord has alluded to what I said at the commencement of the present session. My opinion is the same now, as then. It is in favour e: the manure, which as I said before is introduced with the unanimous voice of the government, and formed on such principles as will make it effective for the intended purpose. It is restrained within the just hounds of moderation, and void of danger to the state. The noble sense of propriety would not allow him to call on me for ream. sure disclosure on the subject. I could not consistently with a sense of say mote than I have said, and I shall not trespass on your lord. soil/3 again on this subject, but wait until the whole measure comes for Me deliberation of this house. I will only add, that thinking further Information unnecessary, 1 have no intention to move for any." The petition was then read and laid on the table. Lord FARNHAM also presented a petition from the cork-cutters of Dublin, for a repeal of the Union. Also one front Nasagh, for a tax on absentees. Lord GOWER presented several petitions for the abolition of slavery. The house then adjourned to Monday. HOUSE OF COMMONS. At a quarter put three o'clock, the SPEAKER took the chair. There were about a hundred members present. Mr. STANLEY (Secretary for Ireland), and another member, were sworn, and took their seats. Mr. BRISCOE moved an address to his Majesty for a return of the number of public and private lunatic asylums in each county in the kingdom, specifying whether the proprietors were members of the me dical profession.--Agreed to. Mr. Alderman WOOD presented a petition from the parish of St. Giles without Cripplegate, stating that when their Vicar came to the pa riah the tithes amounted to 4001. a year, but be raised the rate so much that they came to parliament for a bill, at which the amount of his in come was tired at 1,8001. a year : they now found it impossible to pay that sum, and hoped the parliament would grant them relief. He knew himself that the parish was so poor that 200 summonses were is sued for the payment of the Church-rate last year. Sir R. INGLIS opposed the prayer of the petition. Mr. Alderman WOOD presented petitions from the same parish for the repeal of the assessed taxes, for the repeal of the duty on coals, and for the abolition of Select Vestries, and a petition from the burgesses of Malmsbury, which was signed by the deputy steward, praying for radical reform in Parliament. He was not acquainted with the petition. es, and was as much surprised as the house could be at such a petition, coming from such a place; but he supposed at last their eyes were opened to the evils of the system which they had so long contributed to support. Mr. Alderman WOOD presented a petition from the farmers and graziers, who met at the Smithfield cattle show at Christmas, against tubes. Mr. EVANS presented a petition from Leicester against the truck system, and a petition from Tavistock for the abolition of capital pr. nishment. Mr. H. HUGHES presented a petition from the Rev. Timms Spencer, of Somerset, praying the house to present an address to Me :majesty to convoke a national synod of clergy and laymen, in equal number,, to be f ound deliberateto theot: the u means t of providing remedies for the Sir N. SHAW STEWART presented a petition from Dumfer line for a reform in Parliament, and similar petitions from Paisley, Eastwood, and Greenock, and a petition from a congregation in Gree nock, fur a general fast. Sir W. ING LEVY presented a petition from Gainsbury and Spa. bury, for a repeal of the duty on coal. Sir J. NEWPORT presented petitions from Tronshan &e. against the grant to the Kildare-str e et Society. H e then presented a petition for the Repeal of the Union, which, if carried, he believed would be the destruction of Ireland, and ultimately the downfall of Great Britain.— That was his deliberate opinion, and he had never disguised it. (Hese, hear.) He then presented one from the Corporation of Waterford, for the Repeal of the Coal Duties, and one for Reform, from the same Place.--Ordered to be printed. Mr. JONES F. - emoted a petition from coal owners in Durham, for the repeal of the coal duty, and similar petitions from Cardiffand Aber tstwith, and petitions from 14 congregations of Methodists in Wales, for the abolition of slavery. ItIr.WALROND presented a petition from Sudbury for the abolition of slavery. Lord VALENTIA presented a similar petition from Newtownbury, .ind a petition from a congregation in Long.acre, for a general fast. Lord BERNARD presented a petition ftomßandon for a general fut. Mr. GREEN promoted a petition from manufacturers near Derby, to: the repeal of the duty on printed calicoes. Mr. CARTER presented a petition front Portsmouth for the repeal of the duty on coals, and two petitions from congregations for the Abolition of slavery. Mr. PORTMAN brought in a bill for the consolidation of the Highway Acts of England. Read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Monday. Mr. R. GRANT presented a petition from Norwich, for the repeal of the coal duty. Mr. LITTLETON presented a petition from Staffordshire, for the abolition of tithes. Mr. LEADER presented a petition from the inhabitants of the Western part of the County_Mayo, complaining of distress. O'GORMAN MAHON wished government to state whether they had received any information of a murder committed is the Comm of Mayo by the police, and that a magistrate of that county bad inbred that he would shoot a bloody rebel of the name of Hughes, vassehig the pariah priest; and another magistrate had declared he would ism say bloody rebel that assembled for the repeal of the Union : after the bloody declaration that was made in that house by ministers the other there would be no doubt that blood wo u ld flow in Ireland. re proceeding to prosecute Mr. O'Connell on a bad and We Ciotft law.—(Hear, bear, bear.) That cheer shewed what tbs of Ireland had to expect from that house.—(Cries of ordes.r i ti they found Mr. O'Connell guilty, and threw him into a dim ND, the hearts of seven millions of people would go with him, and V O'Connell was acquitted, the government would not have the thanks, but there would be no more such prosecutions avdnot men for mem "lg the peace of the country. (A laugh.) He would sazatfalicpresav the peace of the country, for Mr. 0' Connell and the liaed had done mere to preserve the peace of the country than all is tlt England had ever done. The people of Ireland were determined to have repeal of the Union, and would have it. Me. STANLEY said he should confine himself to a reply to the H onourable Gentleman's question; a person had been killed in a to. - , multuous assembly by tho police; a Coroner's Inquest had been held. and the result left it doubtful whether the pollee were to blame ; but the fullest investigation should take place. Mr. D. BROWNE said he had never beard of such language , used by an In maglstrateos bad been mentioned b the bon. gentleman. O'OORMAN MA ON said, it was stated the Mayo paper. that a Magistrate named Bt. George, had said at a public meeting, that he would shoot the bloody rebel Hughes, like a mad dog. Lord EBRINGTON said be lamented that the measures resorted to in Ireland should be necessary ; but be was willing to take his share of the responsibility, and he preferred civil war to the dismemberment of the empire. (Hear, hear.) He was not ashamed of the opinion, and' would avow it in Ireland, with which he was connected by property. I (Hear, hear.) Sir JOHN BURKE raid, he had a personal respect for Mr. St. George, and he believed him a worthy magistrate. TR! nuance STATIEMENT. On the motion of Lord ALTHORP the house resolved itself into s Committees of byplay, Sir Alexander Grant in the Chair. Lord ALTHORP rose and said, I the, Sir, on the pre sent occasion, with feelings of diffidence. I cannot but feel that I am undertaking a task which, to those most accus tomed to details, might feel difficult ; but which to me, who have not been accustomed to enter at any length into finan cial details, is a subject of peculiar difficulty. I am quite certain the committee will give me credit for saying I shall not be inclined to detain them longer than is absolutely ne cessary. At the same time lam afraid honourable members are aware I shall not be able, during the time I may detain them, to relieve the dryness of the financial details. It is my intention to state to the committee, on the present occa sion, the financial plans which are to be submitted to the consideration of Parliament. I have taken a very early op portunity of doing this, knowing the anxiety of the house and of the country to be informed upon the subject. I have taken the opportunity so early, that on taking what is the statement of the expenditure of the present year, I find the estimates of the whole are not yet before the house ; but, nevertheless, I shall be able to state the rough totals we in• tend to name as composing the financial statement. Before, however, I go into the statement, and detail the alteration in the financial state of the country, which it is my intention to submit to the house, I shall take the liberty of stating what the Government have been about with respect to reduc tions since they have been in office. We have not been in office long enough yet to be able to propose to the house all , the reductions which we hope to have it in our power to • make ; but nlready have we ascertained that there are many reductions we should be able to effect more immediately, but the greater part undnubtedly required legislative measures to enable us to carry them into execution. I shall state to the house some of the names of the offices we think we can reduce without detriment to the public service. I shall state, Sir, and wish to be understood not as stating them in the way of pro ducing any general immediate saving to the public—still as producing something—not, however, so great a something as might be expected : for, undoubtedly it will be necessary to provide for the persons thrown out of office, by making them an allowance. 1 mean to state them, and submit them to the House, principally as affects the patronage of the Crown. The Vice-Treasurership of Ireland is reduced : the Lieutenant-Generalship and Clerk of Delivery at the Ord nance ; the Auditor of the Civil List ; the Treasurer of the Military College and Ayslum •• the Postmaster-General of Ireland ; two Commissioners of the Navy Board ; Surveyor- General and Surgeon of Ireland ; two Commissioners of the Victualling Board ; one Commissioner of the Navy in Ja maica and his clerk ; the President of the Paymaster's _ _ Office ; seventy-one officers reduced in the dock-yards, rated at from sixty pounds to six hundred pounds a year ; an Inspector of Stamps at Manchester—a vacancy having occurred—a Distributor of Stamps in Cumberland ; a Re ceiver-General in Scotland; and forty-six Receivers-Gene rals in England—in all amounting to two hundred and ten places, which we conceive we can reduce, by the assistance of the Legislature, during the present Session, if the Home will agree to the proposition we intend to make. My Noble Friend at the head of the Colonial Department considers that he can adopt all the recommendations we can suggest as to inquiring into the Colonial establishment of the coun try ; and be is also sure that in going through the other offices similar reductions can be made. The Lord Chancellor is likewise of opinion that very considerable reductions can be made in his department. Thus far as regards the pa tronage of the Crown • and when I love been taunted with saying I thought the dovernment ought not to be carried on any longer on the principle of patronage, this is the answer I make to that statement. Having said so much, I now ap ply myself to the Financial statement. The mode in which I estimate the supplies is the usual mode—that is, I shall com pare the supplies with the revenues of the last year, and then make such proposal as seems to me . right. The amount of charges for the present year are 46,866,0001. I mean with the interest of the debt, Exchequer Bills, and the whole of the charges. The revenue of 1830 amounted to fifty millions and sixty thousand pounds ; but from this there was to be de ducted the amount received for taxes on beer, cider, and a part of sugar during the last year, which will not be received this year, which would reduce it to 47,150,0001. Then de ducting from that 47,150,0001. the charge which I have stated of 46,856,0001. the surplus which remains is 300,0001. Sir ) I have never been an advocate for a large sinking fund, or a large surplus revenue, but I do admit that 300,0001. is coming rather too near the mark. I know that I am about toaddress the house under an expectation on the part of the country that great reductions of taxes are to be made, an expectation which, though not founded upon the state of the revenue, is, nevertheless, well founded upon the necessities of the country ; and as much as possible a consi derable reduction of those taxes must be made which press on the country. Ido not know that there ever was a period within my memory in which a reduction of taxes might be made with much greater effect, and with greater relief, than at the present moment. It is when the manufacturing in dustry of the country is going on in a steady progressive state of improvement, that a reduction of taxes affecting that class of people must be productive of great stimulus and encouragement. Now the object 1 have in view is, of much I csi- . course, to relieve as as I can the poor labouring classes. How then, is this to be done ? Is it possible to do this by taking off taxes that press directly on them ? I am sorry to say it is not, for 1 regret to state that their situation is such that they consume but few taxable commo dities. I believe the best mode of relieving the labouring classes of this community, or of any community, is by giving them employment— (Hear, bear, hear)—and the only reduction of taxes there can be made is to reduce those that can be conducive of affording them that employment. It is with this view I have considered attentively the whole of the taxation of the country ; and though it is impos sible for me, in the present state of the finances, to reduce to any large extent taxation, yet I hope I shall be able to propose such an alteration of the mode in which taxation is levied, as will give great relief to the industry of the coun try, and promote the prosperity of all our industrious classes. Looking at the taxes this way, I have classed them under three heads. The first class that requires the attention of Government, are those taxes which by their largeness in amount diminish the receipt of the revenue ; that is to say, where they are so large as to diminish the consumptios of the article. These We the first that ought to be attended to. The second class is that which is composed of those which press unequally on the population—taxes which press on one , part of the community and not on the whole. The third class of taxes importantly requiring to be attended to. we taxes interfering with the manufactures, and taking Muth more from the people than they bring to the revenue. It is P9/ ? 1 ! " " r 7 F91"I'r'. . '' ~. w . -__; ~`" upon these three classes any man, considering the state of the country, will be of opinion we ought to act, if we wish to reduce taxation for the improvement of the state of the coun try. Having stated these as the general views on which I mean to make the financial statement, I should not do justice to the honourable member opposite for the Queen's County (Sir H. Parnell) if I did not acknowledge that I have taken a great deal of my statement from his calculation. I shall now first enumerate the taxes I mean to reduce, and then state the amount by which the e revenue will be reduced by taking them off. In the first class the first tax which by its amount does not produce so much as it ought, I clearly think is tobacco. On looking through the receipts of the tobacco-tax, the house will find it has varied in a most ex traordinary manner, exactly according to the increase or di minution of duty upon it. I propose to make a considerable reduction in the tax upon this article. It is not only that by making this reduction the revenue will suffer but very little, in comparison to the relief that will be afforded, but it will have the effect pretty nearly (indeed as far as my information goes, entirely) of putting a stop to smuggling. Groat relief will be afforded by this reduction, not only to England, but particularly to Ireland, where the article is consumed to a great extent by almost all the lower classes of society.—l propose then to reduce the duty on raw to bacco, which is 3s. to Is. 6d; and the duty upon manufac tured tobacco, which is 98. to 4s 6d.—(Hear, hear.) Be fore I go farther, I may just advert to a motion of mine, which is before the House, respecting the growth of tobacco in Ireland. Ido not mean actually to prohibit the growth of tobacco in Ireland ; but I do not mean to afford it any peculiar protection ; but to subject it to the same duty as tobacco imForted.—(Hear, hear.) Now, Sir, there is ano ther tax which I must confess I have always strongly ob- jected to, though it does not immediately press on the in dustry of the labouring classes, yet a tax which presses a good deal on the diffusion of knowledge. I refer to the Stamp Duties on Newspapers, and the duty on Advertise ' mints. I propose, Sir, with reference to the tax on News papers, which now is 4d. with a discount of 20 per cent. to reduce that duty to 2d. without any discount With refe rence, Sir, to advertisements, the duty on which at present is 3s. 6d. I propose to reduce that as follows : On every advertisement not exceeding ten lines, I propose that one shilling duty be paid ; above ten lines, a duty of hali-a -crown.—(Hear.)—l now come, Sir, to speak on those taxes that press considerably on the lower classes ; and the first tax to which I have to call attention is, the duty on sea-borne coal.—(lmmense cheers.) This, Sir, is a tax that bears directly on the labouring classes, by increasing the expense of their fuel, and it presses in a much greater degree on the growth of manufacture. In considering this tax we must look to it as affecting England and Ireland, and I trust that in taking off this tax, I shall not be con sidered as having placed out of view the interests of Ireland. I intend, Sir, to take off the whole of this tax. The House will see by this, and what I have further to say, that I have considered those taxes which press on the lower classes and the manufucturing interest. I shall now refer to a tax which produces far less revenue than what it takes out of the pockets of the people. I refer to the tax on tallow candles. This tax I also propose to repeal altogether, which, beadss the relief it will afford in diminution of price, will also be felt as a great convenience in the country by enabling per sons to make their own candles. The next tax is one that also contains every objection which can possibly attach to any tax ; I refer to the tax on printed calicoes. This caused the collection of two millions on the productive interests it the country, while the article of which it is composed only produces 500,0001. This, sir, is a tax affecting that parti cular class to which I have been referring. It is consumed by the poorer classes, and I have no doubt the house will think with me that this is a tax which ought to be taken of. (Cheers.) Another tax to which I have applied myself with great attention, as it is a tax on productive inclastry. Is the tax upon glees ; (Hear)—and I doubt not when this article is removed from the trammels of the excise, that' the manufactory of an article so important will go on with prosperity when combined with a reduction of the taxes ea sea-borne coals. In this case, the manufacturer must pay duty on the whole body of the article he manufactured, whereas, when he has any thing ornamental to produce he must cut away a great deal of that commodity on which be has paid duty. These, sir, are the taxes that include the , redactions. There are several small taxes—about 163 1 be lieve—which do not produce above 2,0001. those will be taken off. Now, sir, I shall first state the amount, as it would appear, of the money that has been received on 1 these taxes. Upon the first tax which I have the honour to call the attention of the house to, namely, the tax on tobacco, there has been received two millions, eight hundred thousand pounds. The tax on newspapers is four hundred thousand pounds—that would be reduced to two hundred and eighty four thousand pounds, and the tax on advertisements would be reduced one hundred and fifty thousand pounds. The tax on coals amounts to eight hundred and thirty thousand pounds. The tax on tallow candles produces two hundred and twenty thousand pounds. This, sir, will make in the whole a reduction of taxation, in the relief of the people, of four millions and eighty thousand pounds. [This amount the hon. member afterwards corrected.] I now come, Sir, to where I shall state the mode in which this deficiency in the revenue will be provided for. In endeavouring to provide for this I have been anxious to pursue a course that would not interfere with the productive industry of the country. The first tax which 1 propose to increase in lieu of the taxes which I have taken off (and I trust in pursuing the course which I intend to take will be the means of di minishing the price of the article to which I am going to refer) is wine. At the present time, French wine pays a duty of 79.6 d. per gallon ; other wines 4s. 10d. and Cape wine 2s. sd. Now, I propose to equalize the whole of this duty at ss. 6d. Although by this means there will be a considerable rise in the duty on Cape, yet, I believe, gen tlemen are aware that this is a wine of which the consump tion is but small. The consumption of wine in consequence Of this tax will not be diminished, and I consider that the Oak of this duty of ss. 6d. will give about 1,140,8001. the Present receipt was 1,585,0001. giving an increase of 55,0001. Sir, in the estimates of the duties which I propose to repeal. I forgot to state what would be the dimi nution of the revenue by the adoption of that course. The re duction on the tobacco tax will be about eight hundred thou -4 pounds. The reduction on newspapers will be about 100,0001. That on coals will be about 830,0001. That on candles will not be a reduction of 420,0001. for this reason- 1 I have had a great many communications from different quarters on all taxes, and I have had a strong representa tion made to me by the manufacturers of candles that I should not take off the duty upon them till the 10th day of October, because they have stated to me that they take in their stock of candles in the early part of the year, on which they have paid duty, and on which they would be entitled to no reduction. This tax, therefore, Ide not pro pose to repeal until the 10th of October. The reduction, therefore, upon this, I shall calculate at 200,0001. The re duction on printed cotton will be about 500,0001. On glees 600,0001. and the reduction on the other taxes to which I have before referred, about 60,000. So that there will be a reduction of upwards of 3,170,0001. not 4,080,0001. pre viously mentioned. Before I digressed, I was on the slum litiOn on the duty on winos, by that I expect to gain about 240,0001. The neat tax is of a similar nature. It is a tax -~+-~ . • -~: , . ~ ~~ ~,..,fit _ PM which I meet etremmsedy advocated several years ado on the committee of forst. trade. I have always thought it a tax that ought to be increased. I refer, Sir, to the tax on tim ber. At the propene moment the tax stands thus. On Eu ropean timber there is at . the present moment a tax of 55. per load. On Canadian timber 10s. 1 propose to make both 10s. This, sir, %%ill increase the revenue by about five hundred thousand pounds. I should be sorry to do any thing that would be hurtful to any of the staple ma nufactures of this country or its dependencies. But lam quite convinced, on reflection, that the measure which 1 now intend to propose will certainl y not have that effect. 1 in tend, however, to propose that a tax of one penny a pound shall be laid on raw cotton imported into this country, and a drawback also of one penny on all cotton goods exported. This will leave an amount of taxation of 497,0001. The next tax I intend to alter, and from which I expect consi derable revenue, is the tax on the exportation of coals. As the tax at present stands on that article, it is 17s. 6d. upon large coals, and 4s. on small. Now, what I propose is, to equalize this, by imposing a tax of 10a. on all coal exported. I expect, sir, a revenue from this to the amount of 100,0001. The next tax, sir, which I propose will be on steam-boat passengers—(Hear and laughter). The tax that I mean to lay on is for passengers under twenty miles Is. a head ; from twenty to thirty miles, 2s ; and front thirty miles and upwards, 2s. 6d. This tax, sir, I expect, will produce one hundred thousand pounds annually. I cannot see what forcible objection there can be to this tux. I have consulted a gentleman whom I consider a good author-rt . on this subject (Mr. Deane, of the Custom House), and he considered there would be no difficulty in collecting it— neither does he see any objection to it. I now have to take another view on a different point, I allude to actions on the sale of all landed property. I cannot see the proi'riety that there should be, as at present, a less tax on the sale of s.uall estates than there is on larger ones ; 1 therefore intend to lay a tax of one half per cent. on the transfer of all landed property. (Hear, hear, hear.) Ido not see why th... higher classes should not be taxed to the full extent of all others, neither do I see why the transfer of one kind of property should be taxed and not another : I therefore propose a simi lar tax on all sales of the public funds. (Hear, and loud cheers.) The tax that I mean to propose is ten shillings upon every hundred pounds bona fide transfer stock.— (Hear, hear.) But, sir, it is not my intention to tax the transfer of stock, where it is only done for the purpose of giving security to raise a loan of money. lam aware, of the delicacy and difficulty attending the subject, but I do not think that there are any disadvantages equal to the benefit that will be derived, neither can I see for one moment that the house arming to this proposition will affect the public credit, but I do think they will give general relief. Neither do I think, as I before said, that it is any infraction of the public faith consistent with the advantages that it would certainly bring to the country. It may be said, Sir, that this is only a beginning, but we have the security that we lay the same tax on land as we do on the funds. We do not tax land to the exclusion of the funds, or the funds to the exclusion of the land ; on transfers of all descriptions of property the same tax will be levied. The house will bear in mind that I do not propose to tax the transfer of Stock, when it is only transferred as a security for a loan of money. If I did, it would be a great inconvenience to the commer cial world. I therefore give the privilege of exception in such cases. It now, Sir, becomes me to state what I expect to derive from these taxes. From the tax on the transfer of landed and funded property, I calculate will be derived a sum of 1,200,0001. From the tax on transfer stock about 800,0001. and from land somewhat under 500,0001. From the total amount of taxes that 1 propose to lay on, I expect will pro duce a totalof 2,750,0001. Now , the revenue in the year 1830 amounted to 47,730,7001. The taxes I propose to re duce will amount to 3,170,0001. leaving the reduced revenue 44,560,0001. add to this the new taxes, amounting to 2,750,0001. it will then produce a revenue of 47,310,0001. which I calculate will leave a surplus of revenue over the expenses of the country of somewhat more than 450,0001. In making these alterations, I have consulted many gentle men well versed on the subject, and their opinion coincides with mine—that the money interest will not like the change, but the manufacturing interest will. Now, Sir, I consider this the greatest recommendation my plan could have. (Hear, hear.) I consider that the taking off the taxes off cotton, coals, and glass, will very much increase the consumption of those articles. It may be thought a bold experiment; but in my conscience I believe it will meet the interests of all, and 1 believe that the plan will succeed. At all events 1 have been guided with a wish for the prosperity and wel fare of the country. He concluded by moving a resolution for the granting of a supply. Mr. GOULBURN said, he rose to address the house under cir cumstances of extreme difficulty, on $ subject which branched out, in different heads, and in one part contained &departure from principle, li , ch he had never expected to bear in that house. Hs lamented to hear the noble lord draw a distinction between the moneyed interest and the ma. nufacturing interest, which it had been the object of parliament to unite. He should first advert to the proposed duty on the funds. It was al. ways the glory of the government and the house to keep inviolate the contracts made with individuals who lent money to the public. Whew the country was struggling for existence it kept faith with the pubic cre ditor; it was reserved fur the present time for $ minister of the Crown to propose to violate those contracts. He believed the noble lord was not aware of the full extent of the contract, or he would have stated it to the house.—.[Lord ALTIIOIIIIP said, lie had the passage before him, but had overlooked it, or be should have read it.)--The terms of the cent act by which the money was exempted from tax was repeated in every contract. This, he admitted, did not prevent the income tax ; but the Act stated, that no stamp duty should be charged on any transfer of the funds, net withstanding any Acts of Parliament to the contrary. Could any thing be more binding ? The fundbolder was nodded to the full bentfit of his contract. The measure was a violation of faith, and unjust, and would be equally injurious in its effects. Funded property was trans. fined from hand to hand with the greatest rapidity, which increased ha Wee, and made it a source of prosperity ; and would not the tax hum. Owe with the facility essential to commercial transactions? (Hear, bear.) Raw would It operate on Institutions which the house had encouraged ? The whole proceeds of the savings banks were lodged in the public lima; and there were four or five sales affecting individuals in dress blob l ore year. The effect of the tax must be completely to destroy them histkatices. It would also affect those who lodged larger sums is the hots he limited times. He thought those classes would be mere inkwell by this tax, than they would be benefittcd by all the noble lad's reduction. He implored the noble lord not to violate the public contracts, which had made our funds the security not only of this bat of all foreign countries. How must such a tax prevent the lodgment a foreign money in our funds. The noble lord proposed that we simuld maninenee the yew with no more thou a probable surplus of 460,0001, sod this all uncertain. When he had eared as estimate which left but a certain surplus of 1,600,000, the hem amber fee Cannelton ole. Jewell to its smallness, though there yes to be a probable addido• tint weal raise it to 3,000,0001. The least hikes is the adds lord's plea mesh' leave the oramisy with a deadest income at she seed et the year, mid compel the preernment to raise money by Ikedesepar BUM. He was cooldoot the hue. member for Calibres would urge die pale lard to provide for a larger surplus. It was hopostibls at passed to norm lute all the details of the sable lord's pleas bet he Amish' doe wee some immeistmicy. The noble lord reduced the duty es pawed ammo, but be immisul a duty se all seam Wham ha pespand relieve the industry of the people, it was ger sessistest to beemees she - on that disbar whisk wee used* hem bog:Mos e what she mob plied is slam they would lose M timber. Re would lowest die holm to reed the ociatreits 'Peered into with the petals miller beers they I.