Star. — London, England, 1831-09-22 00:00:00

goi I: h' vote for a Whig member, anti he always re .plien that he was at perfect liberty. (Hear, hear.) • Mr. HUME was glad to hear the very proper manner in n' ids the gallant officer had acted, and was surprised he eat+, defend the conduct of the Marquis of Salisbury, which was .o cry different. (Hear.) He was sorry to hear the lionnerable member for Hertfordshire say that tenants would be Ori , en to the pqll-like negrort. He had a much better opinion of the spirit of Englishmen ; but if they should be made ?h.: victims of oppression. a reformed parliament would know how to provide 3 remedy. Sir J. SEABRI(.IIT said, he thought as highly of the "'hit of Englishmen as any man could do. but it was not in 1.0 non nature that men should expose their families to lei- fur the sake of a vnte on ordinary occasions. Mr. O'CONNELL said, he read lately in a newspaper •re..rh attrilnerel to the noble marquis, whose conduct c a. ioionlained of, in which he said people were endeavour :re: to bring the Melee or Lords into disrespect. ( Hear.)— Sizeh conduct as was stated in the petition would bring the 'reuse of Lords into disrespect. He was glad of the clause in the Bill which gave the franchise to tenants at will, be cause ft would both extend the constituency, and secure the vote v ballot. (Hear.) Sir R. VINTL-1 N said, he had once .1 similar petition to present from tenants who had not only been turned out of their houses, but in prison for twelve months for the votes they gave, and the noble marquis in that ease was not a T.ry, hut a sunporter of the present Bill. (Hear.) )Ir. TILT NT said, it was always the case, that when the 11'higs accused the Tories in that House the To:ies threw tie charge hack in their faces. —(A laugh.) It was tan.ta. rarara !—(Great laughter.) There was nothing in the Bill to prevent the influence of Peers in elections, and the resolu tion on the journals was a mere farce. He hoped to see every Englishman have a vote, and be protected by the bal lot ; but unless there was universal suffrage the ballot would he injustice. Sir JOB N BRIDGES thought there was no interference in the part of the Marquis of Salisbury, as he tad not turn out any tenants till after the election ! He thought he had acted perfectly right. Mr. Sergeant wthro: said the act now justified wax an illegal act, and • gross violati n of the privileges of that House. If any landlord and his steward were to go to a tenant and say, if he did not vote for the candidate his land lord recommended, he should be turned out, they could both be convicted of a misdemeanor for interfering with the elec tion. That was not the just influence of property—it was its abuse—it was oppression.—(llear, hear.) He had known men who refused to take the bribery oath because they felt that they voted to avoid being turned out of their houses, and others who would have gladly resigned their votes to evohl the danger. If a reformed House of Commons could possibly entertain the opinion that such interference was not to be punished, it must inevitably lead to the vote by bal. Ire.—(Hear, henr. ) Mr. O'CONNELL thought government could not be safe if it allowed itself to be surrounded by persons in office, by whom it was betrayed. They were justified is exerting their power in the appointment to offices. Mr. DUNCUM B said, the day after one of the petition er; had voted for hint an execution was put into his house for the rent due, and the following day the placard he held in his hand was exhibited. [The lion member held up the placard, which stated, the goods were to be sold to pay the Marquis of Salisbury, who had seized in consequence of the tenant having voted for the reform candidate.] Such was the feeling of the people, that they subscribed the money and paid the noble marquis. lie had never turned out a tenant for the vote he gave. REFORM. The order of the day for the adjourned debate on the Re form of parliament bill being read, Col. SI I3THORP said, it had been his intention to give his reasons for his opposing the bill at some length, but he felt himself too ill to undertake the task, and should tres pass no longer on the house than to declare his unabated hos. tility to the bill, and his fervent hopes that the other house of parliament would move improvements in the bill which should change its character, and return it to that house fur re-consideration. Mr. C RA 11 PTON (Solicitor-General for Ireland) said, he had abs aincd from troubling the House en this moment tous question, but he could not allow it to pass through its last stage without declaring his firm conviction that the mea sure was legal and constitutional, and just and wise. (Hear, hear.) It was asserted that it was unconstitutional, revolu tionary, and destructive to all the ancient institutions of the country. He thought it would restore and confirm the constitution, which he bad learned to love and venerate from his earliest years. (Hear, hear.) But did the Constitution consist of rotten boroughs, of buying and selling seats (Hear, hear.) It was not so he read the Constitution. Any man who sat in that House, not returned by the peo. ple. was a usurper and a violater of the law. The honour. able member fur Thetford (Mr. Baring) had said there were two constitutions in the country ; the one found in the law-books of constitutional writers ; the other he called the working constitution ; by which he must have meant the corruptions of the constitution. The hon. gentleman had broadly stated that the King and Peers should have their representatives in that House. That, however, was not the constitution which the people would support. The Act of the second of William and Ilary, pro hibiting the Lords Warden of the Cinque Ports from inter fering in the election of their Members, expressly declared that the Members of that House should be elected by tile people only. The nomination system was a direct infraction of the law and constitution. He could not admit it as a lawyer—he could not admit it as an honest man.—Near.) — If Government could not be carried on without nomination and corruption, it was impossible for honest men to carry on the Government.— (Hear, hear.) It' it was really true that the House was to represent the King and Peers as well as the people, let it be done honestly. Let the King return foray • embers, let the Peers return one hund:ed and fifty, let the Colonies return twenty, and let the people return the rest. What would the House say to a Bill of that kind ? If that was the working constitution—it was working iniquity. —( Hear.) Nomination and corruption were indictable at common law ; yet they were now told they were the vital parts of the constitution without which it could not exist.— t was said the bill not only destroyed the old constitution, but made a new one. There was nothing unconstitutional in giving representatives to unrepresented places, nor in limning, nor in extending the franchise. The bill did not in any instance violate the constitution. It repaired the ravages of time, and restored what bad been taken away by usurpation. It might be called revolutionary—he would not quarrel with wads, but say it was a glorious revolution, as it: restored the rights of the people. (Hear.) That house ought to he the intageof the popular opinion and feeliog of the people. Upon the good sense of the people he relie. , slid would always rely. No Government could long sub sist in this country against the good sense of the people, and no such Government ought to exist. The good sense of the people had decided in favour of the present bill, and it was truly said that justice ought not to be denied to the people, even if demanded with clamour. It was prophesied that if the bill were passed, the Church, the Peerage, and the Crown, must fall. He believed the prophecy came from a false inspiration. (Hear.) If the Church of the United King dom depended for support on rotten boroughs, it could not stand, and it ought not to stand. (Hear, hear.) They libelled the Church who said, it depended on corruption fur support. (Hear, hear.) He maintained, on the contrary, that the more the State was purified, the better the Church was secured. (Hear, hear.) It was said the Institutions of the country depended for support on the rotten bo roughs ; if that were the case, they ought not to be sup ported ; but he was confident that by restoring the Constitution all the' institutions of the country would be best secured. (Hear) , It was said that if the Bill passed that house it would not pass the House of Lords. He should he sorry to suspect for one moment the honour, or the wisdom, of that noble assembly ; but if ever there was a Bill sent from the Commons to that noble House, which they should be delicate even to touch—which they should 'tweet,: criticise—it was the present Bill. The House of Peers had no more to do with the constitution of that house, than that hose had to do with the constitution of the Home of Peers. The Crown created the Peers, and it issued its writs for the election of the House of Com- MOD% and the Peers had no right to interfere with its pri vilisee. (Hear, hear.) By the common law, the Crown and that House alone, had the power of regulating the con stitution of that House. The union with Scotland, and the union with Ireland, had mode the concurrence of use house of Peers necessary for the passing the present Bill; but he would contend that a main part of the present Bill could be ear led into effect without the consent of the Peers.— The boroughs in schedule A, for instance, could be dis franchised. (Hear, hear.) Suppose the house were to ad dress the Crown to dissolve the Parliament and Issue writs foe the election of a new one; but not to rotten boroughs or decayed places—not to green mounds Off mosidering walla— (hear, hear)—hut to places having conadesenta, including populous places at present unrepeasommi There was no thine in the law or constitution to prevent the presentation of such an address by dent hems, and nothing to prevent its Crown acting on it. Writs might also be issued to towns ; and In that way the house might be made populo u s.ge of the public opinion. (Hear, bear.) He knew that could not be done with the boroughs of Scotland, Ireland, or Wales, nor with some particular boroughs in England that had been made the subject of particular statutes. (Hear.) He said that corruption had never been charged to the noble marquis, who was his nominee, nor to his constituents, who were free as any, and Eere numerous; yet he could consent that their franchise sliduld be thrown to the wind rather than it should stand in the way of the bill. He had told his constituents that he would support the bill in all its parts, and he hoped in fulfilling bis promise that he had discharged his duty to them, to his country, and himself. He thought that the time was now cone when reform was no longer a question of expedience ; they had only to choose between reform or revolution. The guiph lay before them, and they must avoid it if they could. The fiat of opinion had not suddenly assumed its present aspect, but had gra dually been gaining strength. It had broken through bar rier after barrier, and now had only one hairier more to break through, which he hoped it would safely overcome.— The hon member concluded with repeating his unqualified I approbation of the measure, and renewed his assurance of giving it his zealous support. Mr. C. WYNNE declared his astonishment and horror at the monstrous doctrine which had been laid down by the hon. and learned gentleman who had just spoken—a doc trine which be said, if acceded to, was to declare the House of Peers of no use, (hear, from the opposition.) and before proceeding further, he thought they should know how they stood. They had a right to know from his Majesty's mi. nisters what they meant to do—(hear, from the opposition,)' and if they meant to carry this doctrine into practice (hear, from the opposition.) He thought that the house should immediately adjourn the debate. (Cheers from the oprosi lion.) The house possessed no more power than it had ever possessed, and if the crown meant, upon an address from that house to prorogue parliament in the manner laid down, and the house to sanction it, it was, to all intents, virtually voting the House of Peers of no use. If the crown, by the advice of ministers, could refuse to issue writs for boroughs, he did not know any place that sent members to parliament which the crown and its advisers could not, upon the same principle, disfranchise. It was right the house should know where they stood, and whether or not this was the intention of ministers. He was more anxious to know it, and was more alarmed when he recollected that he had heard the declaration made by one of the law officers of the crown.— From this, he would pass to the dectrlne of its expedi eney. They had been told that the Lords had no right to reject the measure. Sir C. VETHERELL here rose abruptly, and stepping in between the hon. member who was speaking and the chair, said he rose to a point of order. He deemed it unne. cessary to protract the debate farther; and he intended to move that the House do now adjourn the debate on the Re form Bill. He did so on the pound that one of the King's law officers had said the Lords had no right but to accept the bill on the report of that House; and that the Crown, on its own authority, had a right to take into its own hand, and to suspend the issuing of writs to the boroughs of ache. dule A. Mr. CA NIPBELL begged leave to rise to order. He thought, that as the Learned Gentleman was making a motion, that the words which he used ought to be taken down. The SPEAKER explained, that the hon. and learned gentleman was now only explaining his reasons for making th. motion. Sir C. WETHERELL resumed with great warmth and many epithets. He would be happy to know that the power did not exist, and then the House would not be insulted and disgraced by such declarations. If the right hon. Solicitor. General fur Ireland would acknowledge that his doctrine was erroneous, he would consent that they might proceed with the debate. Let them have the Solicitor-General up, the Attorney-General, or the Noble Chancellor of the Ex. chequer, let them come forward if they chose in their robes of office and declare themselves, and let them sot whether they had three delinquents or only one. If they gave it up he would be satisfied ; but in the mean time he would move that the House do now adjourn its debate on the Reform Bill. The motion was seconded without observation, but by whom we did not learn. The SPEAKER then stated the previous question,' , Thm this Bill do now pass," and it was moved that the House do now adjourn the debate on the Reform Bill. Mr. CRAMPTON said, that the Hon and Learned Gen. tleman had misrepresented every word that he (Mr. Cramp. ton) had said.—(Cries of no, no.) He had never said that the Lords had no authority, but, on the contrary, he had distinctly admitted that they might reject the measure if they chose. He bad said that at common law the Crown, with concurrence of that House, might refuse to issue writs. —(Cries of no, no, no.) He h ad said that the Crown, upon an address of that House, could at Common law, independ ent of statute law, issue writs—but that was not • violation of the privileges of the House, because it was only a compli. ance with the desire of the House.—(Cries of no, no, and loud cheers.) It was a combination of the powers of the Crown and the Commons. And by the same law and statutes, if sheriffs returned Members for such boroughs as were refused writs by the Crown and the Commons, they had the right to reject such members. It had been inferred that the crown had been recommended to adopt that course, but he was not aware that any such thing had been done; he had merely made it a speculative case, on a question of law, and he had used it solely as an argument, and not as a communication which he had been authorised to make. He considered that he had an undoubted right to give Ms opinion, and consi dering the immense influence of the learned gentleman in that house, who was a giant in comparison to him (Mr. C.) he thought the attack had been made for the purpose of crushing him, an humble individual, and that it had been un called for, and was ungenerous. lie had made no direct declaration that would admit of the construction which the learned gentleman had assumed ; he had, as he before stated, made it a speculative case, and used it as an argument. He would assure the house, as a man of honour, that he bad never mentioned the subject to any one before be had done it to the house ; he had done it of himself entirely, and no one else was responsible, but he presumed that tbe learned gentleman had some ulterior view in his proceeding, sad had selected him as a scape goat. (Cries of No, no.") Sir C. WETHERELL said, after the explanation which had been given, it would be equally satisfactory to the Honourable and Learned Gentleman and himself to refer to the recollection of others, whether or not he had rightly' interpreted the words of the Honourable and Learned Gentleman. He proceeded to repeat the words as he had used them. Lord ALTHORP said, the Hon. and Learned Gentle. man (Mr. Crampton) bad, In his explanation, as near as possible, in his mind, repeated the words he had originally used, and he (Lord Althorp) thought it singular conduct on the part of the Honourable and Learned Gentleman (Sir Charles Wetherell), because that an Honourable Gen tleman might be connected with a Ministry, and in the heat of debate wake any declaration on a question of law, that his Majesty's Ministers should be called upon to rise and make a declaration on that question of law.—(Hear.) The Honourable and Learned Gentleman had most particu larly defined his statement in the lint instance, that It was a speculative case, and he had used It merely as an argue went; but his lordship had no hesitation in declaring that he had never been consulted on the question until he beard it in the house; and in gising his own opinion, that he considered the question to be altogether unconstitutionaL , 1 (Cheers.) Sir R. PEEL said, that after the explanation of the hon. and learned gentleman, and the declaration of the noble lord, that lie considered the question an unconstitutional one, he thought his hon. and leaned friend might withdraw his mo tion : but he (Sir R. Peel) was much Indebted ►o the learned gentleman who had called forth the Satisfactory explanation and declaration. Mr. GURNEY rose amidst loud calls of " Question, question," and proceeded to read the different acts and sta tutes which had been alluded to, on which he commented, but so much confusion and excitement existed in the house, that he was scarcely heard. He concluded with begging to offer a few remarks on the general question. The SPEAKER informed him that that would be out of order. Sir C. WETHERELL then rose, and begged leave to withdraw Ma motion. Mr. C. WYNN resumed. He had the greatest respect for the lion. and learned gentleman, and he had thought that his knowledge of the Constitution was such as might be de waded upon. and in taking his view of the law that could be no security for the House of Commons. He had always been convinced that some reform was necessary ; and when he had given his voice in favour of a measure of reform, he had dose so from conviction ; but he never could have anti cipated a measure so extensive. He could not support the present bill. He expected that a measure would have been introduced to extend the franchise to the large towns, and to that he would have given his assent. He would even, being convinced of the necessity of reform, have gone beyond his opinion . • or, to enlarge the number of members, he would have made room for them, but he could never have thought of taking away the fran chise from all the boroughs under two thousand, because he thought these small boroughs useful to the Constitu tion. He objected to the extent of disfranchisement; to the expense of the machinery ; to the unrepresented state in which the colonies and other great interests were left:; to ' the lowness of the electoral scale, which in the metropolis was almost equivalent to universal suffrage; to the nume rous and great agomalies which the bill contained. These were his objections. They obliged him to give his negative to the measure. He was ready to give his assistance to a moderate reform. (Cheers from the opposition.) Mr. ROBERT GRANT considered there could be no doubt that the bill would work well, when those who formed the medium in which it was to operate had received it with such feelings of satisfaction and gratitude. He denh d that the bill went farther than the expectations of the people. But if it were even true that a learned lord had not, witch a member of that house, held out to his constituents so exten sive an aineliorntion, it only made him a rare and signal example of a man in office giving more than he had pro. mired when out of it. If the bill passes, said the Opposi. tion, the bill is unnecessary. Then if they voted against it, and prev e nt e d i ts p ass i n g, th e bill was necessary. But the test was a ridiculous one. If a man repented of the error of his ways, and determined to reform, was the de termination sufficient, and was he not to follow it up by practice? Besides, the house favoured Reform under peculiar circumstances, under the influence of the King's name, and of a great popular excitement. (Hear, hear hear.) The Opposititonista themselves boasted that the Bill un der the former Parliament was passed only by a majority of two. He contended that the Bill was essentially restorative and cooserva . ire. The house, said the member for Oxford, was never so independent and enlight ened as at present. But had not the people advanced in a greater ratio ? (Hear.) Was not die house. relatively speaking, worse than ever? Show the time, said the member, when there were no close boroughs. Put the backwardness and uncivilized state of the people rendered it necessary that at a remote time the aristocrary should return members. IL was they who then formed the enlightened puhlie : it was they who fought the battles of liberty. (Hear, bear.) There has been no dtange, said the member for Oxford triumphantly, in the framework of the constitution since the revolution. Let there then he a change now, for one third of the indepen dence, of the wealth, and intelligence of the community has grown op since the Revolution, and the honourable member says they are not represented ! We are apprehensive, said the Opposition, of the power that is without this House. ale (Mr. Grant) thought that a reason for conciliating it. He contended that the defects in the Constitution were purely accidental. He should take no other test than the records of the House. Amongst them was a statute of Ed ward 111. declaring that elections should be free. The Member for Oxford said, the Barons of the Chino, Ports returned each one Member previously to a Bill abolishing the practice passed under William 111. Dot the preamble o f that Bill declared the practice to be contrary to the laws of the kinoticn. The giving of money to the patrons of boroughs, again said the member for Oxford, was not ille gal until the motion made by Mr. Kirwan, and, he added, a nswer the speech which Mr. Wyndham trade on that occasion. He (Mr. Grant) would read the preamble of the bill which the house passed in conse quence of that motion. (It declared the practice of giving money to any connected with an election, to be " contrary to t h e a ncient usage and freedom of elections, to the laws and constitution of the kingdom." That was his answer to Mr. Wyndham's speech. (Hear.) The hon. member, in refutation of the assertion tLat the controul ex ercised by landlords over their tenants at elections was con. stitutional,cited several examplesof elections which had been declared null on account of controol having been exercised. These facts were plain, and when ;lie hon. members would not appear to underworld diem, they reminded him of the senators of Tiburius--" Senatoribus units nieces erat. nisi intelligere viderenter." Would lion. members proclaim to the people that all that they had recorded in the annals of the House were mere moor.shine, mete deception. (Hear.) He declared that he knew none of his friends at the bar who would avow as constitutional doctrine sentiments that he had heard avowed in that house. He considered that the house were the nominees of the people, not their delegates ; but that he was not bound by any specific pledge, but by the stronger ligaments of general sympathy on political subjects. That was the sort of general pledge that he considered ex isted between that house and the people now—nothing more. (Hear.) He, therefore, deemed that on the subject of pledges there had been much misrepresentation. He was much sur prised at many of the topics that he had heard urged during the discussion, especially the vehement call on the House of Lords to reject this Bill. (Hear.) Was that course cones tent with principle or practice ? If the advice were adopted, it would show that the House of Lord., had not the inden. dence attributed to them. He trusted that their LadAtips would not show the worst species of cowardice, that of evincing a course of proceeding from the fear that they might not be thought to be afraid. (Hear. hear, hear.), He trusted that they would show a conduct very contrary, and that they would sanction a measure fraught with justice, and calculated to promote security. (Cheers.)— Lard VA LLETORT strongly condemned the Bill, and 'maintained that it bad not the approbation of the country. It had not been considered by the country in the way that it ought to have been.—(Hear.) The Bill was fuU of con tradictions and absurdities. The measure was of the most I extravagant character; it surpassed the most extravagant expectations of the most extravagant reformers : how, then, could they expect that such a Bill should receive the sanc tion of the House of Lords ? If evils resulted, the conse quences would be on these who had excited unjust and too extravagant expectations.—(Hear, and cries of question.) Sir C. WETHERELL said, that in the progress of the bill there had been much insult and violence of language ' against those who deemed it to be their duty to oppose this reform bill. Who had been the cause of that P There had been direct imputations of corruption against those who re presented nomination boroughs and resisted the bill—sem. has who were as independent in mind, spirit, and every at tribute, as those who approached that house by mans of a large constituency. This bill raised the greatest constitu tional question that was ever submitted to any parliament_ and yet those who had deemed it right to examine and oppose it had been exposed to a " schedule" of imputation, and charge of throwing vexatious delay in the way of the will of the King, the Ministers, and the people. Was that just ? And when flowed those imputations, when did the deluge of eloquence come upoa them from the other side of the house ? Why, after the bill had been read a third time. Till then, there was an embargo laid upon their eloquence—till then there were only votes in answer to objections. This proceeding was extraordinary; besides, if the objections were valid, that proof would come I too late, for the Bill had been read a third time. He should however proceed to examine some of the characteristic fee tures of the Bill. First, be considered his colleague's argu ment against the reduction of the numbers of that house re. mained unanswered. He deemed the argument to be un answerable. It had been said, that the house could not pro. ceed except it had public opinion ; but how was that public opinion to be collected? He maintained that the house never could have the sanction of publiopinion in the sense in which that language was gem/ally us ed. Mode ration wu recounnentled,hot where was it found? (Hear, hear.) In dm GovemSent paper, which had recommended the army to mutiny, if the bill was thrown out ? Was it it in the tt Friendly Advice to the Peers," or in " What will the Lards do ?" or in the threat, that if the bill were thrown out the flames amongst farm produce would burst forth ? Were these specimens of moderation ? again the Government approve of these things ? Did they sanc tion the threat that the House of Lords should be placed in I schedule A, if the bill should be thrown out ? Did they sanction the terrorism of the press--a tyranny beyond the law ? It was fit that they should know these things. He hoped the ministers would answer them, because from what they saw, they were threatened with the infliction of the in. jurious and mischievous tyranny of the press, which dis played a power beyond the vigour of the law. (Hear, hear.) fie then again particularly complained of the reference made to the fate of the French peers; it being insinuated that if the English peers resisted, the like fate awaited them. But the French nobility did not resist, so that the parallel did not hold good. The French nobility conceded, and that concession they were sacrificed. The English peer age were desired to concede, and he told them what the French peers gained by concession. The recommendation was a curious case. He would also have the English 1 peers look to the example of the French peers, and to re. collect the cruelty and ingratitude which afterwards followed the concessions of the ?nods peers. (Loud cheers.) But be had yet to learn what some of the noble houses in this country had conceded. What had the House of Howard conceded 1--(Hear.) Bat be would not go through the several houses • what they had conceded would form ano ther ScheduieLa sort of Schedule o,"—the represents. live of nothing (cheers and laughter.) The examples of the French Nobility were wet what the British House et Lords ..+ ought to follow. He would not go to the Fauxbourg St. Germain' for his doctrines—to those who bad destroyed the Nobility—the hotels—the chateaus.—(Hear. hear.) What had been the fate of the Polite who had deserted his order? After 40 years of struggle the French people had not realized to themselves the prospects they bad pro mised—the civil liberty they had anticipated would result from such proceedings and revolutionary violence.—(Hear, hear.) Yet though such was the fact, there were per sons In this country who were nevertheless too fond of recommending the imitation of France.—(Hear.) The House of Commons proposed by Cromwell was less revolu tionary than the present NU.— (Hear, bear.) His own judgment was never more convinced than it was on the pre. s en t Bill. In this his last Parliament—for in a reformed Parliament he would never sit—in this last House of Com mas be discharged his conscience, when he ascribed to the p resen t Bill the subversion of the monarehy—the Church, and all the best institutions of the country.—( Hear, bear.) Lord A LTHORP said, before he went into the general question, he would merely advert to what the learned gen. deman had said in allusion to the revolution in France, the mention of which, he said, was first introduced by the mem ber be Caine ; but which was really first introduced by the leaned member for Rye. in his very eloquent speech. An honourable and learned friend of his (Sir J. Scarlett) had said that the way to obtain popularity was to abuse all the insthutlons of the country, even the trial by jury; and he asked were the reformers sure that after a reform they could preserve these blessings!—he would ask his Hon. Friend in return, was be sure that without reform these blessings would he preserved?—(Hear, hear.) He was confident that with the present Intelligence and opinions of the people, Reform was necessary for the preservation of ear hest institutions.—(Hear, bear.) ft was the spirit of the Constitution that the property and intelligence of the people should he represented, and that was the principle of the present Bill. It was said every interest was repre sented in that House; but was it by election of those in terested? Was it not by finding its way through the chan nel of the rotten borough? A Gallant Friend (Sir John Malcolm) proposed to continue rotten boroughs for the pur. pose of representing India. lie thought that Gatton and Old Sarum were sufficient to return representatives for Man chester and Birmingham, and that representatives for India might be returned from Leuhnhall.street.—(Hear.) It was said that the people expected so much from the Bill. that after it should pass they must be disappointed ; and the remedy proposed for this was, to disappoint them at once by rejecting the Bill —(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Thetford was at a loss to know how the Government could be carried on after the Bill should pass. Undoubt. edly it would be still more necessary than at present that the Government should be popular ; and tieing popular, be saw no such danger of their not finding seats in that House as should cause the rejection of the Bill.—(Hear.) The Government would be more easily carried nn with a con tented people than it was at present, when the people were so justly dissatisfied with the state of the representation. It was assumed by the opposers of the Bill that it would este blish a democracy, and take away the influence of the aristocracy. He believed that the influence of property would not be diminished, but instead of power being given to a property in boroughs, it would be equally diffused in proportion to real property. (Hear, hear.) It was said that there was no instance of a monarchy existing with a purely popular assembly ; but he believed the experiment never had been tried. (Loud cheering from the Opposition.) A po pular assembly had existed in this country, much more cor rectly representing the people than it lately did, and the House of Lords and the Crown possessed their proper share of influence ; and he was confident the same would be the case after the present bill should become law. ( Hear.) — An hon. gentleman said, the consequence of rendering the constitution more democratic would be, that we would rush into war rashly, and come out of it disgracefully. Certainly, the republics of former days were ready to rush into war, but not to come out of it disgracefully ; and in the present day a readiness to rush into war was not the character of the Greatest republic in the world ; and he hoped the increased intelligence of the people would render wars of rare occur. rence. It was said the bill would promote bribery ; he thought the effect would be the contrary. The time of taking the poll would be shortened and the constituency increased, both circumstances that would prevent bribery. (Hear.) The plan of Reform was condemned as much too extensive ; but to propose a lesser Reform would be to make a change without any chance of its being permanent. He hoped the effect of the present measure would be to give confidence to the people in their representatives, and if it had that effect, be did not think they would call for a change. The learned gent. bad said much of the French Revolution ; but the state of France before the Revolution was as different front the state of this country as any thing could be. The Peers of France had long oppressed the people, and resisted their just claims, and only conceded to the people when they were forced ; when concession only excited in dignation and contempt. (Hear, hear, hear.) It was mid as the population was incre ased the representatives should not be diminished. The increase of population was a cogent reason for increasing the number of electors ; but die question respecting the number of the representatives was, were they sufficient to do the business of the country. He thought no one could doubt that they were. (Hear, bear.) The Honourable Gentleman argued that boroughs would still be under influence; he believed there would be very little influence, that the borough elections would in general be popular. (Hear.) The Learned Gentleman complained of pamphlets, but he must know that Govern. meat had no controls! over such publications. (Hear.) The daily papers were in general eager in the cause of Re. form ; but every one might see that Government bad no influence over them. He believed in that House sequoias of equal importance was ever discussed with less puma violence. (Hear.) In some few cases hard words had been used ; if used against Government he freely forgave Alm s and he hoped the same forgiveness would be extended ma their aide. (Hear, bear.) It was a subject of such immune importance that it was impossible not to feel on it snugly. It had long been the conviction of hie mind that the state of the representation must be improved, and he confidently hoped the present bill would effect that improvement. (Hear.) He felt that the landed interest was in no danger of being rendered powerless in that House. The Bill was localising representation, and the Members for towns would be the country gentlemen in their neighbourhoods, and would in crease the power of the landed interest, while giving repre sentatives to the great manufacturing towns would tend to unite all the interests in the country. Strongly feeling all the advantages which the Bill was calculated to produce, he congratulated the House on seeing their labours draw to a conclusion.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. BARING said a few words in explanation, which were not distinctly heard in the gallery. Sir R. PEEL said, upon his - conscience, he believed that never was there so great a change in the state of the repre sentation proposed,with so little of necessity for that change. (Hear.) He contended that the right of voting was conferred upon those places where them was the most danger; such were the places with voters whose rental was three shillings and ten-pence per week. It seemed to be forgotten too that the present measure was accompanied by two other bills, which were to carry a subversion of the constitution into Scotland and Ireland. He contended that a positive heamee to the democratic influence of the house, and s anew ponding diminution of a cheek to that influenceormedheini by the measure before the boast. (Hear.) An member (Mr. blacauley) had said, that the . ought to admit of perfect liberty in the amemedides of property, and security in the possession of ft. (He Sir IL Peel) wished to know if perfect liberty and security were not poeseseed ? He admitted there had been so much of public opininion expressed in support of the bill as to In. dace him to treat that opinion with the greatest reggeet ; but the measure was so much one of democracy, that lie Mdi net go with that opinion. Lad JOHN RUSSELL replied in a highly eloquent epee& Pdr. HUNT rose at four o'clock, and was long before he amid obtain a hearing. He said the people were anxious he PAlkina, but not as anxious as at the beginning for the crisslllll, u migke be seen by the anal! number at the Hall, which did not exceed ate thousand. Kr. Alderman WOOD could with great difEculty obtain ablating. lie said he would not sit down till he contra dieted the assertion that the Common Hall was not mime. musty attended. There were 4,000 present. The House divided— Ayes Noes 236 —,,... Majority for dm Bill The announcement was received with loatmintinned cheering. The Howe adjourned at Half-past Fres. The late fire at Mr. Donlan's, near Westminster Bridge, appears to have been the work of an in cendiary. FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE. PARIS, Tuesday Afternoon, „ The tumults which took place on Saturday, renewed on Sunday afternoon and evening. At two o'clock, the courts and gardens of th e Palais Royal were cleared of the people by tlo troops ; and in the evening the crowds in tb.• streets, and vicinity, sere dispersed by frequeiv. charges of cavalry, from the Rue St. Honore, tti , By these many persons who had arrived in Pari; from the country, where they bad been peaceably passing the day, were wounded. Towards mid. night, the streets became tranquil. On Monday, the principal place of rendezvous was the Chamber of Deputies, where an immense assemblage took place; and although the people con ducted themselves most orderly and decorous, yet they were frequently subjected to brutal charge, of cavalry, who sabred and trampled upon them in the most wanton manner. In the evening the whole city was iu a most agi tated state; and presented the appearance of :t camp in every part. The military consisted ol cavalry and infantry of the Line, and also of ca valry and infantry of the National Guard. In the neighbourhood of the Palais Royale, most of the streets were blocked up by the soldiers, and the Rue St. Honore was lined with the National Guard. An immense body was posted in front of the Palais Royale ; and as the picquets of cavalry raised a cry of Vive le Roi ! in passing from place to place, they were answered by the crowds with vociferations of " n, bas les Ministres—a has Louis Philippe." Towards midnight, the crowds again dispersed. Down to this hour, (four o'clock on Tuesday), tranquillity has no, been disturbed, during this day ; but the Court of the Palais Royale is closed, and filled with troops ; and there is little doubt that the tumults will be renewed in the evening. During the two last days, many persons have been wounded with sabres and bayonets, some of whom died on the spot, and others in the hos pitals.—Yours, L. CIRCULAR or THE POLISH COMMITTEE OF PARIS TO TIIE rOLIIIII COMMITTEES OF THE DEPARTMENTS. " Gentlemen—Dismal news has just plunged Prance into tears end mourning. The Russians hare entered Warsaw. The army, after a glorious and obstinate resistance, has car. rind to the right bank of the Vistula, the last hopes of heroic Poland, and the profound sympathies of every generous heart in Europe. Let the Autocrat of the Russians pride himself in his triumph ; let him thank Providence for that sacrilegious victory of brutal force over right—of barbarism over the advanced guard of European civilization—the rights, the liberties of people—and European civilization will in turn have their re-action. We no longer live in times, when a whole people is to be slaughtered with impunity, whose only crime is their wish to exist ass nation. The cry of Polish blood will echo and re-echo wherever there lives any sentiments of justice and human dignity. The governments, accomplices of that odious partition which made Poland aprty—have been obliged, by a kind of homage to that public conscience, which has burst from all parts—to disguise, under the mask of a hypocritical and deceitful neutrality, their Interested enmity. Europe will judge the conquerors; she will de. nounce the abuse of fora; she will put under the ban of civilised nations, those Governments that have surrendered Europe to invasion, and to the most terrible contagion, rather than render to some millions of men their nationality, which was wrested from them only by crime. The double plagues of the Barbarians and their diseases advance, as if to punish those States for having allowed, by their indifference, that barrier to be broken which protected them; then perhaps that weakness of fear, and those calculations of interest, which has stopped our efforts at emancipation, will take the field for us. Strength will remain on the aide of justice and right. Friends of Poland ! we are not discouraged. To despair of that noble cause, would be to despair of morality—of Providence even. No; Poland will not perish; we have a guarantee, not the vain promises of a Ministry, wbosemactUadng and pusilantmous policy France repulses and disivows—but the conscience of nations—the interest of Europe, and the irresistible power of civilization! The Committee of Paris invites you therefore, dear and ho nourable colleagues, to redouble your zeal—to collect sub. scriptions—and to prepare fora better !kinky. Let us dis pose ourselves, should that be necessary, to shelter that noble wreck of a nation which has fought to defend us ; let them find in our fire-sides, their own fire-sides; in this beautiful country, their own dear country; Poland will ever revive in France. but the Russians will come to seek it there.— Long live Poland !" (Followed by the signatures of the Committee.) PARIS PAPERS OF TUESDAY. ON THE TAKING OF WARSAW.—We hare at last the details given by the Prussian Gazettes. or, what is the same, by the Russians. In spite of the efforts which have been made in that laco nic bulletin, to magnify the character of the Rus sians, and lessen that of the Poles, the latter never appeared to us so truly grand. What patri otism, what heroic constancy in the defence of their native soil ! The Polish army has done its duty, and in the last moments it has not disap pointed the high opinion which all its conduct had inspired in Europe. It has quitted Warsaw with the national government, leaving the Russians in possession of the city. What bitter tears must have rolled from the eyes of those patriot warriors, who, after two days' combat, saw themselves too %sok longer to defends city, at the fortifications of which all had laboured. Modlin will become the last bulwark of Poland. If that fortress was nearer the fron tier of Prussia, the Polish army might throw itself into the Grand-Duchy of Posen, and seek to raise the population. Prussia hasacted sufficiently hos tile against the Poles for them not to be very cau tious of that power. It is said that upon an event so important as that of the fall of Warsaw, We should be reduced to receive the intelligence 01 3 Russian bulletin. It would be presented under quite another face, if we could listen to the Poles themselves. But they actually groan under the Muscovite yoke, and dare but sigh in secret, Wait ing the moment of their deliverance. We shal t see whether the powers will allow the Russians to act in Poland as in a conquered country. Russia has given them a proof of disdain by rejecting their intervention ; the cabinets h ave th e right to instil upon the constitutional nationality of the Niel' If an bb Ks tivi its ( aln Icon u rll ay