Star. — London, England, 1817-06-14 00:00:00

IF etc:ssary that the Presentments should be strictly w oo to one of the Assizes. Si r FREDERIC K FLOOD was also in favour of the D ill 6 Mr. CROKER thought that by confining the 1 Presentm.-nts w only one Assizes in the year, this ' i of Magiatrates e ffect would be would be secured produced, that a batter attend- Sit twe as Is. COLTHURST was strongly in favour of litn•ung the presentments to one of the assizes. S r GEORGE HILL was against the Bill, and tholight its provisions could never be carried into p r actice; but at the same tine.t he would n o t d u so ongracinus a thing AS propose that the Bill should be • read a second time this day six months. Mr. COOPER was in favour of the Bill. Mr. ABERCROMBIE said, that the necessity of the Bill WAS fully shewu in the Report of the Com- ' *ace of last year. After a kw words from Mr. DALY and Mr. V. tirrozataLo, the Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Monday nest. 1111811 INSI:URECIIIN ACT. On the Motion for the House resolving itself into 2 commiacc for the Irish Insurrection Act Continu ally Bill , Sir HENRY PARNELL rose to oppose the Bill 0 0 the ground that it was quite unnecessary. He intended to move as an amendnient, that the Bill shoL:ld be committed on this day se'nnight, and if he Exceeded in that, he would then immediately move ter the appointment of a Committee, to consider the papers , and d rcureents on which the Right Honour. able Gentleman .( Mr. Peel) founded the necessity of the Bill. At present the oely case which that Right Honourable Gentleman had made out for this Bill was, that a few baronies in one or two counties were in a state of insurrection. This was certainly not enough to induce the House to assent to a measure al severe as the present Bill. As the Irish Govern. went was, according to report, to be changed, these r owers would be entrusted to entirely new hands. The measures introduced this Session went, with the test, to govern that country entirely by a new system. Ile objected to the powers given to the Magistrates, wh o went down en militaire, and had under their con-. troul a force of '22.000 troops and 30,0(X) yeomanry i and with all this power the Right Honourable Gen e:a:an came to the House, and asked for a continu ance of the Insurrection Act, for which he (Sir Henry Parnell) could see no ground whatever ; cir cumstances being so different Irons what they were in nil, as it was nut pretended that any treasonable auo:iotion now existed in Iteland. He then took a 'aim of the number of persons convicted of distur. hams for a set ies of years, to chew that the ordi. t.ary laws were administered in the most effectual mainier. In two years and a quarter, 218 persons lire! been convicted. On the whole, there ought to be tome inquiry made by the House before it pro cet.led to admit so unconstitutional a measure. He ti.mfore moved as an amendment, that instead of t:te the Speaker do leave the chair this day se'nnigbt. On the question being put, Mr. VESEY FITZGERALD justified the ne cessity of the measure. Hehed not beard one single good ground stated by the Honourable Baronet for delaying it a single day. His Right Honourable Friend had not applied for the renewal of the Dillon the ground of the disturbances in the county of Louth, but because the Act was about to expire, and that it was necessary to strengthen the hands of Go vernment by its continuance. He, referred to the' tapers on the Table to shew that it was not for a partictilar outrage, but coupled with the general state of the country, that the Act was renewed, as every day produced fresh outrages ; and it was only on the onsaimous representation of the Magistrates of the Chanty, seconded by the representations of a County Meeting, that the Proclamation was issued. He ad verted to many of the late horrid outrages in Ireland, and argued, that it was because the suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act would not reach such offenders, that the Insurrection Act was applied for. The Ho nourable Baronet had lamented the severity which it vas necessary to exercise, but he believed that there "as ao man who dud not regret the circumstances that tolled for such severity. He then justified the con duct or the Irish Government, and observed items a great consolation to know that the individuals who might retire from . it, would carry with them the on mired approbation of every impartial and honourable man in the country. The convictions in Ireland within the last three years, were no argument or conclusive proof that the Insurrection Act was not necessary. It was necessary to give protection to witnesses, and to thew the people that they would be protected. Fie denied that the non-concession of the Catholic claims had any thing to do with the outrages in Ireland, as the Honourable Baronet insinuated. It was a libel on the lcyalty of the Catholics, and he would never teffer such an assertion to be made in that House va•bout contradiction. He concluded with declaring Oat not one tenable argument against the measure hal fallen from the Honourable Baronet. Sir H. PA KNELL explained. Ho did not con nect the conduct of the Magistrates with that of the Government. He did not say the Act was absolutely 'alaecessary, but that. the existing laws were ade- Sine to the punishment of the offences. Mr. VESEY FITZGERALD, in explanation, denied that he had accused the Honourable Baronet I , : libelling the Catholics, but that the Honourable Baronet had net dealt fairly by the bill. 1 , iir SAMUEL ROMILLY deprecated the warmth with which the question had been taken up by the Eight Hon. Gentleman, who had not dealt fairly by t:e Honourable Baronet. What was the House to do in legislating for Ireland, when all information 4as withheld from it, and it was proposed to give to e Magistrates and the Government the power of 'aping from the people the benefits of the Constitu- :: 011 ? All his Honourable Friend proposed was, to infer the bill for a week, in order that some inquiry ziight be made. His Honourable Friend thought tut the refusal of the Catholic Claims contributed in some degree to the disturbances—but the Right Ho nourable Gentleman positively contradicted this.... Then what was the House to do, if all opportunity for inquiry were refused ? He contended that the Bill gave the power to the Magistrates to have every man transported for seven years for being found out of his house before sun-rise or an hour after. sun -set, artless lie could clearly prove that he was out upon same lawful occasion, which he might not be able I do. Such rigorous prtcautioas might be ncees. nary, hut the House could not be justified in agree. ing to such . * measure without inquiry. It was too much for the Gentlemen Opposite to suppose that they alone fell horror at such a circumstance as those papers related ; for there was no man of common feeling but must regard them with equal abhorrence and indignation. He verily believed that the :Tisza lion of morals, and the misgovernment arose in is great degree from ore part of the people ccni.eising ' they had an interest in depressing the other. It, as the Right Hon. Gentleman had stated, the distur bances in the county of Louth were not the cakt..e of the renewal of the Act, then there was the snore ground of inquiry. The Honourable and Learned Gentleman was proceeding to advert to particular arguments of the Right Hon. Gentleman in a for merdebate, when Mr. VESEY FITZGERALD spoke to order. Sir J. NEWPORT and Sir W. BURROWS con tended, that the Hon. and Leained Gentleman had right to make such reltreneef. The SPEAKER observed, that it must in general depend on the common sense and feeling of the House, to what extent any Member might be per mitted to go, in the way of general reference. Mr. W. :iIIIITH thought there could be no doubt that arguments in former debates might be referred to, though particular words ought nut. Sir SAMUEL ROMILLY continued. He ex pressed his wish to conform to the rules of the House as well as to the wish of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Fitzgerald.) He repeated, that if Louth alone was in a state of disturbance, there was no reason why a particular Act of Parliament should not be passed for that county alone. Such powers as these were not to be entrusted in the hands of any men, merely because it was believed they would not abuse them. Was there any English Member who could justify himself for depriving the Irish people of their liberties without inquiring into the actual state ,of Ireland? The system of Government, for centuries past, had been to treat Ireland as a conquered country. Mr. PEEL adverted to certain of his observations on a former evening, to shew that they had been mis taken by the Honourable Baronet. He denied that he referred to the state of the county of Louth as rendering the Act necessary. The cases of Tippe rary and Limerick were as applicable as that of Louth. He repeated what he had previously stated, to prove the necessity of the measure. As to the motion of the Honourable Baronet, he never heard fewer arguments in support of any motion. He de nied that there were any grounds whatever for such a Committee, even if the inquiry were practicable at this period. In every single instance in which the Act 'had been applied, he had produced the most incontrovertible evideuce of its necessity ; and was not the House perfectly competent to form its opinion on the instant? It was impossible to conceive what course the Honourable Baronet would pursue at this late period of the Session, or even if his Motion had been made much earlier. He complimented the Ho• Or:tumble Baronet for the interest he took in the wel. fare of Ireland, but he was sure nu Gentleman could have any interest in supporting the measure beyond the conviction of its necessity. The opinions of the Honourable Member for Colchester and the gallant General were against him, but he believed he had with him the opinion of every other Irish Member. He continued to argue on the necessity of the Act, which had existed, with some alterations, ever since the year 1796. The Honourable Baronet, he con tended, had failed in shewing that there was any in-', tention on his part of changing the form, or giving extraordinary powers to the Government. He then replied to the different objections of the Honourable Baronet. Nothing but such a measure having been put in force could have checked the unlawlul out rages that had prevailed in the county of Louth and the other parts where such excesses had prevailed be fore the Bill was introduced. A reference to the Pa pers would shew that in three months ten persons were devoted to a most cruel assassination, by the persons whom they had offended, and thirteen houses robbed of' arms. The houses of two farmers were attacked, who gave information in September, and one of them was shot in December following I the other escaped with his life, but his house was burnt, and his sister-in.law fell a victim. In Loath, since the Act had been in force, there had only been ten convictions, and he believed they were all considered worthy of mercy. On such grounds, the Act war not only a necessary but a lenient measure ; and he begged the Honourable Baronet to reserve some of his sympathy for those who were in danger of their lives but for the protection it afforded them In Westmeath, where the Act was three months in ope ration, only four perions were transported, and in King's County not one was transported during its operation. He would say, that though it was a hard ship to confine people to their houses, it was more effectual than if a hundred convictions had taken place. There was ma wish on the part of the Magis trates to be entrusted with this Act longer than was necessary, and the Act was withdrawn from three of the counties on no other grounds than that the Ma gistrates themselves applied to have it withdrawn. he had proposed that the Act should be continued for a shorter period than it ever had yet been conti nued, and the measure had the approbation of Gen tlemen who were the best judges of its necessity. Sir WILLIAM BURROUGHS said, that the only information in which Parliament had to proceed was th.et respecting the county of Louth, and yet they were to put it in the power of a majority of the Magistrates to extend this ferocious 'Act to any other county in Ireland. What was the nature of this Bill ? Every man who was found out of his house an hour after sun -set, and before sun-rise, was liable Ito be transported by the majority of a Bench of Ma gistrates at Petty Sessions, unless be proved that he was out on his lawful business. Any man's house might be searched, and if any person dwelling in it were.abroad at the time above•mentioned, he was liable to the same punishment on the same species dl trial—so any one in whose house arms were founds the bunts= of proof or disproof was In all in stances thrown cm the person accused, in contradic tion of every principle of law. The conviction by tbe Magistrate could not be shaken by a certiorari, like convictions in general before Magistrates. It seemed also as if it were intended that the power of mercy in the Crown should be taken away. The same sum mary:conviction and severe punishment was applied to persons who frequented untassfel'assensblies, or to thesis who were found diewibudes seditious papers. Meantime, too, a murder, or arty offence not inclu ded in that Act, must be inquirtd into in the com mon course of law ; so that when theßill declared that the oreinary forms of jtistic4, would not ensure the pu nishment of criminals, the most heinous offenders were left entirely to them. In stating the number of convictions in the several counties, the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Peel) had shewn considerable art. He had omitted those in which the greatest num ber of convictions had occurred. In Tipperary there had been one hundred and seventy-eight commit. mutts, and forty-six convictions. In Limerick, sixty-seven commitments and twelve convictions. In all Ireland there had been three hundred and twenty eight commitments and fifty-eight convictions; so drat two hundred and sixty persons had been taken up and sent to prison who had turned out to be in nocent. The measure had been first proposed in a' bad time—it was a part of that system which preceded the rebellion. They remembered the scourgings and torturings of that time*-(1-lear, hear), when the law was entirely disregarded—when all things were done' by violence, and when that violence was misnamed vigour—(Hear, hear.) He wished to see that sys. tem put an end to, and Ireland delivered from the yoke of oligarchies in each county who wished to h Ave the life and liberty of every man :a their disposal. He should, in a Committee, move that the Bill should continue only six weeks after the next meeting of Par liament, and that it should be imperative on the Ma gistrates to bring the persons apprehended by them before a Jury. _ _ General MATHEW disapproved of the measure, the more because it was obviously calculated to sup port the Protestant Ascendancy Faction which ruled and oppressed Ireland. How the pains created by this Bill would operate, every moo acquainted ;With Ireland could easily judge. For instance, how was a Catholic peasant, found out of his own house after sun -set, likely to be disposed of by a quorum of Orange Magistrates, who under this Bill could trans port him for seven years, upon the evidence of any of those Policemen, or, as they were called in Ire land, Peelers, wise were constituted by the Act which this Bill proposed to continue. Persons sentenced under the Act were not;: he was aware, to be trans ported without the consent of Government, to whom an appeal might be made; but what was the chance of any successful appeal on the part of any Catholic to the Orange Government which at present pre sided over Ireland ? What, however, was the ne cessity that called for this extraordinary measure ? The County of Tipperary, he was enabled to assert, was quite tranquil, so was Limerick, as the Members for that County had lately told him ; and the Noble Lord opposite, who was Member for Louth, had in formed him a few days ago, that the disturbances in that County were of a comparatively unimportant nature, and not at all connected with politics. Yet the state of those counties was the only reason as signed by the Irish Secretary for pressing the adop tion of this Bill. But even if those counties were somewhat disturbed, he should still contend against a Bill of this nature ; for what would that House think of a proposition to invest the Government with the power of suspending she Constitution of the Country, because a few districts in Cornwall or Not tingham should happen to be disturbed' Such a propostion would, no doubt, revolt the House, who would naturally deem the law• strong enough to put down such disturbances. Why then should a dif ferent feeling prevail with respect to Ireland, which was in such circumstances that even the Noble Loid opposite (Castlereagh) did not think it necessary to extend to that country the Act for suspending the Mabee: Corpus ? The conduct and views of the Irish Government must then excite the astonishment of every man unacquainted with their character. But for himself, he had no doubt that the desire of the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite (Mr. Peel), and that of the Orange majority of the Cabinet of Ireland, was to establish an absolute despotism in that coun try, to aggravate all the miseries of its poverty by the horrors of tyranny. But they must first design to provoke a repetition of the scenes which that ill fated country witnessed in 1796—(Near.) For the rebellion of that day was the provocation or the Government itself—". Yes," said the General, " the insurrection of 1798 was the work of the Go vernment itself. Lord Clare himself told me that Government was well acquainted with all th.tt was going forward among the United Irish, and that lie told a stupid relation of Lord Edward Fitzgerald's, that Government were well aware what that Noble Lord was about, with a view that Lord Edwaid might take the lout and leave the country, for that he (Lord Clare) wished to get him off. But hots did the Irish Government become possessed of all this information ? Why, through the medium of a person of the name of Reynolds, who professed, tic doubt, cordially to cones:., and most probably was very earnest in exciting the very men whose plans and proceedings he was-daily communicating to the G:i vernment, by whom he was hired. This Reynolds was, indeed, by his own confession, an United Min. man, sworn net to betray his coileaguee. Yet be be trayed them, and probably was instructed to take the oath with that design. But he has had his reward,? for Reynolds has had a salary of a 1,500 or £2,000 a-year settled upon him for life by the Irish Govein ment, apd is now Thomas Reynold:, Esq. of Welbak :treet, a Freeholder ot the County of Middlesex. In, that capacity, indeed, he has lately been one of the Grand Jury by whom the bill of indictment was found against the unfortunate men at present under trial in the Court of King's lieocle. So GOD knows what those informers may crime to. I should not in• deed be surprizedif that horrible wretch Castle, who, by his own confession, has been implic.ried in some ot the blackest crimes in the catalogne•-..(litar)— should hereafter, with a splendid annuity trim the English Government, be sent. to Ireland to become a Grand Juror, to promote the finding of a bill of dictment against any set of men whom the Irish Go vernment may think proper to accuse. For how are a Grand Jury, cuiraisting of cautious, perhaps of ti mid men, likely to be influenced by the presence of a notosiouf informer, during too the Suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act ? What, I would ask, could be the object of appointing se:h a person as Reynolds upon the late Grand Jury i" Here Mr. GOULBU RN rose to order, contending that the gallant Officer was wandering from the question. - .General MA•I'HEW proceeded. He wished to term his question...Mb:it wits meant by the coy cl Protestant ascendancy ? Did they mean to aerie Ireland as it was served by the ITepirty Mnuntjoy, in the time of Elizabeth. and by the savage Cennseeell, who parcelled it nut among his British soldiery, and hungry followers ? Was the cenntry again to be confiscated and parcelled nuts If se. the Ministers might indeed enjoy the barren triumph of reigning in gloomy silence and sullen dignity over an universal weste, or an universal barrack, till all that remained of wilat once was Irelend, the scanty and wretched relics of ancienthonntir and ancient visliner, thould sink at last into a condition of seeh a;ejrct Ceres - meat, as, like negro sla res. to Ink the very tee; the odious tyrents oho trod them d“wri—(Crrr, Bear, Hear). Mr. BLAKE was unw;ilintr to obtrude 11:mself upon the entice of the N .thing 6.1; a quee lion so import:int as the present could induce him ft) do so. 1-1; diikred with those who approved the revival of ;be Insurrection Art. He did not lure., to follow the gallant General (11Itzliew) through ine mischievous and unmeaning speech which he had pet delivered. 'He deprec.eed toe mixing up of the Ca.. tholic subject with the present. The question wee treated by the Honourable G ittleman and the He nourable Barnett who prec..ded him, as if there 5.... nn case in which the Covernment'burlit to be trusttet with extraordinary powers. It was treated as if, t re-enactment of the Insurrection Act was to be taken AS if it were a Suspension of the Habeas C.uptis Act, and therefore a suspension of the Constitution in Ire land. The cases were totally &Glen' ; there was no analogy whatever between them. The Insuirectetit Act is but partial in its immedi ite operation, %Life t has tie singular advantage of being general ir :rs good effects; it deters the evil-minded, and stiz e lates the well-disposed, even where it is not in fore.., which effect would be last it tle• li ll were not conti nued. It is intended to curb disorders which al.• partial, and not flowing from any political cause.— The Habeas Corpus Suspension Bill is, on the con trary, to.put down designs which are widely extend ed to subvert the Constitution. To re.ettect the le surrection Act is, therefore, no infraction of . the Ci;n stitution. The Habeas Corpus, a late improvement, was preceeded by Magna ChAllA—by a multitude of Acts which were chit fly confirmatory of that Statute, between the time of Edward I. end fierny IV. ; and also preceded by the Lill of 'tights, and other concessious by Charles the First. The lion. Member denied that the Habeas Coipiis Act was the only protection of an Englistunlit's liberty.-- He admitted it was the shield of the personal liberty of the subject against the arbitrary will of the King ; but he asked the Honourable Gentlemen oppo,itt., whether there WAS no other danger to be guarded against on behalf of the subject than the arbitrary will of the King? whether there might not exist cases in which it would be a sin upon the part of the Ge vernment and the people against the Constitution, and against themselves, not to suspend the ordinary law and strengthen the hands of the Exet ive ? He insisted that the presetit times aAled a suflicient example of this tact ; end cnticludearby saying. that Englishmen and lit:lnnen were now called urn to surrender their personal lit, rtie.. for a while into hands that will not dare to abite: them, in order to protect those very liberties :old properties for ever from anarchy and confusion, murder end rebbery, which were more intolerable than tyranny itself, b.!. cause any Government is better than of? Govern ment at all. Sir FREDERICK FLOOD said, that th !ma. sure was not a new creation, but one which Led bmn found beneficial, and which it was therefore prudent to continue. As to the inflammatory speee!, :s whi:s had been made, they did not tend to tranquillize Ireland, or to promote its prosperity. Mr. KNOX defended. the measure; fur though Ireland was tranquil at present, it was to be appre hended that the disorders which prevailed in Eng land might soon extend to that country. Sir JOHN NEWPJIer lamented tnat the present measure should be necessary, hut considering it so for the safety and tranquillity ut Ireland, he should vote for it. He wished, however, that it should not eN tend beyond six weeks alter the ne:.! of Par liament, as it would then ensure the consideration of the situation of Irelar.d. The questit.n WAS then put, and the amendment rejected without a divi,t(lN. - Sir WILLIAM LURROWB wished to know, Wore going into the ::unimittee, whether the Riy,ht Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Peel) would have any objection to the clause which he stated it was hii in. teistiot, to move ? Mr. PEEL said, that he could not cr•ncnr in it, as it would weaken the LW . , without producing the ef fect which the Honourahk Ba►onet intended. . The House then resolved itself into Inc C,,mitit tee.—lteport ro•morrnw•. 7be Iri•h Election Hill went through a Comnilnee, be R. port tit which was ordered to he rec,ived on I ueslay. in a Cionniittee on the Exel-e Lictme* Act, a Re•olu•fon, pro• posed by the CIIANCELLOIt tit the I::icn, vie. fur su.sdit., ii,z •Le terms on which Liceuses are no•v was, :.f•nr deal of discussion, agreed to.—• rile Reiort to be strt.'.eJ Monda;.—.rd3ourued at Mlinubt. • BERKSHIRE Cou:crr MBEIINC. At a Meeting, on Tuesday, of the Freeholder*, Gentlemen, and Clergy of the County, cornered at ' the County-Hall, Reading, in couseq.lence of a It.e quisition made to the High Sacral, the purpose of petitioning both Hutilies of Parliament to reje7t the proposition of Ministers for the turthcr &sepal.. lion of the H.ibeas Corpus Act, Mr. STCNE, the Sherd} being called to the Cher, read letters from the County Members, the Honet”-- able Richard Nevi.ie and Charles Diindas, Esq.. apt. logizing inr their inability to attend 'lit Me e ti ng e t , e their determination to oppose any plop°. sito , n that might LI: made in the House of Comm'..s fnr.continning Lhe.Suspension of the said Act. object of the Meeting hay.ng been exilained by Ole ShertlY, and the Requisition read, Lori Viscount I•oLKsTotte, atter addressing e Mceti g, 1 ropcfed Petitions to both Houses ut P:.-. !lament, which he read. TnomAs GoonLaKz, Esq. in a neat speech, secon dedklic proposition of :he Noble Lord. The Petitions were :hen agreed to by a great. rn .l .- titude, without the smallest opposition. After Votes of Thanks were passed tc vaTiols sons, the Meeting was disioi7etl. The County Hall vas crowded to ercess by priutipal rreeholder; and Gentry of a.* Col:my. v ti