Star. — London, England, 1814-05-17 00:00:00

~T 7 , " ....r to be considered on this occasion was, how the natio" should arply its capital with the best advantage, w • ther for the supply of provisions or the !naafis of de- 1 fence. After some further observations, Sir 3. NEWPORT rose to order, conceiving that the Hon. Member was not discussing the question' keore the House, which related to the export of corn, but another topic, which was hereafter to be tonsil dered respecting the import of that article. Mr. D. GIDDY resumed, and expressed his un., willingness to bring forward any discussion irregu. larly ; bnt feeling that he was not out of order, he proceded to illustrate his proposition, and he sub mitted to the consideration of the House, ,whether, although timber, for instance, should happen to. by Bitch cheaper in France ; we shotild not rather 'en, courage the growth-of eakin oitr own country, than allow ourselves to depend upon France or any other State for a supply of that essential article ? Unques.: tioisbly we shoUla promote that encouragement by: . every means in our power; and from the same con. sideratiOns of policy we ought to encourage the. growth'ef corn in our own dominions. This encou ragement Amu -he was disposed to afford, not from any solicitude to keep up high rents, or still less to advance them, or to maintain the interest of corn -growers in'contredistinction with that 9f the manu factarers, brit solely with a - view to obvious national policy. In fact, it was for the country to-consider • whed.er,-it would-submit to pay rather a dearer price fee corn, or consent to depend for a supply . Of that necessary to foreign nations. Cora might be cheaper 4n France or the Baltic, or on the coast of the.Btacit Sea; than id England; but still he would not entourage the imiart of that corn to the preju dice of English agriculture. , Therefore ,he was an advocate for the punciple of the measure before..the House • not beCause, as it was alleged, it prop iced to renoir.corn - cheaper, but because it must servit► to guard against therecurrencuof these fluctuations psieei which had been found so distressing/to the pevle. He, for one, was not for reducing.the price of corn very low ; because he thought.such a reduc tion could never take place consistently with the best interests of the country, or the security of the Consti. tution. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER wished to remind the House, that the Bill then before -them did riot at all relate . to the prices of grain.— The Bill turned on a clear and plain principle, thou4h* much difference ot opinion existed on it. To that prip ciple (merely the propriety or impropriety of free ex port), Gentlemen ought to confine themselves. Sir M. W..RIDLEY, adverting to the Petition which he had presented from his constituents against_ the proposed change in the corn law, disclaimed any intention of casting the slightest reflection afpon those Gentlemen with whom the measure under con.,idera tion originatcdssand the Honourable Baronet read a letter from the Chairman of the Committee, who drew up the Petition, containing a similar disclaimer. After a few words fr....m Mr.' ELnison, the Bib which proposes that the exportation of corn shall not. in future be subject to the payment of any dutiei, was read a first, and ordered to be read a second time on Wednesday, and to be printed. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the reading of the Resolutions with regard to the Pensions to be granted to Lords Lynedock, Hill, and Beresford, with a view to propose the postpone ment of their consideration to Friday next. After a few words from Sir C. MONCKft who re quested the House and the Minister to consider that it was usual above thirty years ago to grant £2OOO a yeat to officers of such distinguished merit as those alluded to ; and that from the depreciation of money iE3OOO a year would be scarcely equivalent to that sum at present.. the Resolutions were read, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer's motions agreed to. Mr. HUSKISSON moved the farther considera tion of the Report of the Committee upon the subject of the Corn Laws. Lord A. HAMILTON declared his intention to take the sense of the House upon the Resolotion. re specting the restrictions proposed.with respect to the import of corn. If the effect of the proposed arrange ment promited in any degree to reduce the price, or to secure a due supply of grain, he should be most willing to support it : but considering it as likely Slone to promote unduly the interest of the agricul.' lutist to the prejudice of the other branches of the Community, he felt it his duty to oppose it. 'He thought tl.is measure exceptionable not only in its own nature, but peculiarly so from the time at which it was brought forward. From the conclusion of the war, and the nature of the law respecting the restric tions upon cash payments at the Bank, it was reason able to calculate at no very distaut period a material Change of price would take place; and therefore it would be htghle inexpedient to fix at this moment' upon the standard of-price proposed in the Resolu tions of the Committee. It appeared quite impos sible for this country, at least for many years to come, to grow sufficient corn for the consumption of its inhabitants ; and why then should the Legislature exclude cr impede the import of foreign corn. or tempt to force the export of our own produte ? 'Of those who desired this export, he would ask, with a view to the commercial interests of this country, what niticles they could wish to import in return? If fa feigners bought our corn, what articles equivalent to this nation would they sell us ? or would it be ice ow interest to take. the manufactures or produce 01 alletioreign nation in exchange for eur corn ? In fact advocates for the measure wider consideration, to act conOtently with their professdd solicitude for tha interest of the corn.growers, were bound to devise some legislative arrangement to protect the farmers from the consequence of. a boumiful harvest, and "s consequent cheapness in our home consumption.... • Were they prepared for the contemplation of such an arrangement ? and if not, how"could they justify the extraordinary. interposition whNh the Pleasure Ice fore the House proposed t • to benefit one class of the people to the prejudice of othenar- Upon that part of the Report of the Committee Which related to Ire land, he omit speak .with diffidende, from his cm:spa• retire oisaiquaintance with , that country ; but of the other parts of the Report to which he adverted, he bad ie. hesitation in exprepsing i hiscanirediespproval, and therefore be concludtgallfthrtishinito postpone the further consideration of the Report to this day three months. . . • Sir GEORGE CLERK denied that the object re commended Uy the Committee in their Report ws s • • • M • 'nzanently to *flans! 'the 'price of grain. The 'error - . pioceeded froth a very common assumption that Great Britain must always he an importing dotiniryf Whereas a very little stimulus to agriculture, even keeping it at its present state, would be sufficient to secure an adequate supply for our population.— With regard to a free trade, experience had shewn, that it was absurd to expect a prevalence of low prices from it, a,s the market pries must, after all, depend upon the supply ( at home. He had one objection to the scaly proposed by an Hon. Member, which was, that it did not render the farmer secure in the pries of the home market, but dependent upon the foreign market. He . belleN4d cods Might now be imported from the Baltic at Ws.. the quarter, and it would rs : quire 735. pry quitter to enable the English grower , to compete with that price; but'be thought. the far rier ought to be secured in a monopoly Of the home markin tfp to 80s. 'He should certainly vote against the Amendmetit, because after the agitation which the question had undergone; it was important to the landed interests of the country that something should be concluded, but he hoped an increase of the scale would be proposed. adt. WESTERN observed, thataupon an average of the last ten years, the proportion of corn imported was vefy small compared to that which was grown ; he had ascertained that from a careful estimate which he had made. With respect to a free trade. the adoption of it he considered as impossible, in the cofnplete sense of the word. He should like to know, from the advptates of a free Corn Trade, in what manner they would have that trade established. He knei , it would be repliedr-open your ports, it all times, to the importation of foreign corn; but if that were done, be should still have to learn how thit would lower the price of corn. The customary answer was that it-would be accomplished by drawing corn from countries whey it could be grown cheaper than in this. l but still, there !nun be a limit to that supply, and in the end the price would find its ofra level. The att thority of Adam Smith had beeveferred to; but be would undertake to say, that *hen that celebrated writer advocated a free trade, he meant not the corn rode only, but a free trade generally; and such a policy , he (Mr. Western) would be disposed to applaud.---., 'There were'ptunerous passages in his work which •confi;:ned-hirn in the opinion that such was not his 'Rev/. Mahe period when he wrote his work, this ',country lariely exported corn, and he estimated the quantity imported as being not more than the 570th part of the - whole consumption. From this fact he 'encouraged the farmer, and dreW the conclusion that' England never could be ad importing country to any great 'event. For his own part, I.e (Mr. Western) was perfectly of opinion, that no country was snore competent - to maintain its own population without the aid of any foreign supply, than the united einpire. 3hereafttiode of obtaining low prices, was to put that impediment in the way of introducing foreign which would limit its supply.' If they fixed the impart price at what was likely to be its average price, t/lerwould check; not only the exertions of the , British grower, but of the foreign also. He hoped, the subjett would undergo the fullest discussion.' It would have been better 'to avoid legislation upon it Altogether, if possible ; tad he *as particularly sorry that it should have taken pliCe at a menteit like the present, whet the price of eorti.wasloW; teem:se the publi - c would run away with the'niatien that it was the object of the Legislature to heighten it. (Hear.) It would have been much better adapteli.flir discus sion lass Session, and he regretted that it was not then brought forward.—(Hear.) —ln his opinion they had :.too ( ften legislated upon the subject. When the price' of Corn was high, they'legislated to lower it, and now that it was - low, it would be - thought that they were legislating to make it higher. It was a most injurious and a most unfounded opinion, to imagine that it was in the power of that House to fix the price of Corn. The scheme recommended on a for mer night was that of a graduated line of duties.--, Of this he did not approve. The principle which. met with his approbation was this, that importation should be discountenanced till there was likely to be a scarcity of corn ; that then, and not till then, corn should be admitted, and that duty free. He had the honour of being a Member of the Committee ofiast . Session, and he continued of opinion that the snockt recommended by that Committee was the best mode of proceeding on the subject of the Corn Laws. He entertained the full persuasion that if any thing could ' keep alive the spirit of agriculture in this country, it must be by making the duties On import amount nearly to-a prohibition. If we were resolved to have a foreign supply, we -must make up ,our minds to expect a great deduction from our prwent growing average. Mr. ROSE.—The principle-which he had always' maintained was, that the grower should b' protected. How this could be done, was a subject for inquiry .j. and what he complained of was, that they were pro-, ceeding without having sufficient information. All that he asked was, that when an adequate price had been fixed for the protection of the grower, imported. tion should be encouraged. But the prices had been fixed without sufficient Inquiry. 'He much objected to free trade ; but would not have trade free in .one. way, and fettered in another. An Hon. Gentleman had said, that there was no objection to investigation. Why. then, 'should they not tpvestigate the subject? Why not investigate it immediately I For himself, he would be happy if a Committee Were appointed to proceed in the investigation to-mot-roar. Certainly the piesent time was, of all others, the most unsea sonable for a changb, but especially for such a change as was proposed. ' He would again say that he most cordially agreed. with those who thought that the in terests of the grower and consumer could set be se 'prated. Mr. HORNER •liis inzions to state the testate, hfor the vote which he Would.give. Its stating these, reasons he would, contrail to ~the example of some; others, confine himself to .general principle& Alter having listened with attention and deference to the arguments of thbse who had spoken, he could not concur in thinking that there were now any reason for departing from the system of freedom of trade in that of corn. Indeed, he was perfectly convinced by all that hebad read en the subject, and by the recorded opinions of ahle,Statesmen, that freedom in the corn; trade was mpst essential, unless adequate reasons could be stated in particular instants, where it was for the interest of the state' that it shottld set be allowed. Such•reasons might be found in the interests of the revenue, or in measures of defence against an enemy, as these were considerations to which the interests of - • - 7..' __:. . • • , -: ''~'-. - • commerce must over be wilctetckir. The quotas then was, whether there now was reason 'why the in terests of commerce, which required true tranin f ahoold be departed from. The resent time' was** worst possible for imposing any-restriction ow the freedom of the Corn Trade. He desired the House to recol lect that no two of those who had spoken in favour of the measure, had beers able to agree as to the detail, or to the way in which it was to be carried into execu. tion. This was one ‘ good reason for delay. sit there were some reasons mach stu °tiger. One of thew arose from the present state of the money system of the kingdom. All were agreed that the termination of the war would produce a very great alteration in the. money market and in the state of exchange. Another reason arose from foreign trade being about to be new modelled, not by the operations of the law, but by the skill of the merchant. Yet by passing the pro- posed resolution, they would embarrass the operation& of the merchant at the very time when it would be productive of the worst effect. The necessity of at tending to our manufacturing interests, afforded ano ther strong reason against the proposed measure. At a time when there was so much competition against our manufactures to be expected, it will ill become us to lessen any advantage which we •Inight have by adopting any measure which might have the possible 'tendency of increasing the price ',Norm Thesecir cumstances, if there were no others, would be MA: cient to induce him to advise the House to pause —TA because there had not been enough of time tor con:, sideting the subject, but because the aspect of our affairs had been so totally changed, that even if they went into the Committee -talked of by a Right Host: Gentleman (Mr. Rose) in the present unsettled state of affairs, the most sagacious could not know how it would be most wise to proceed. What the House had already done was enough to chew that they had-not neglected the subject during that session. As to the measure itself, there were two general reasons stated why the importation of corn shouldbetirdhibited. The first was for the purpose of making us indepc.ideet on foreign supplies. The second from the disadvanta. geous state of agricultute in the country. On the last be would observe, that one who knew nothing of the state of agriculture in the kingdom, and listened to Hon. Gentlemen arguing on chit; point, would . sup. pole that it was in a most ruinons condition. So far from the case being such, agriculture had never, in luny country, been carried to such a degree of perfec tion. As to the other reason, namely, the dependance on foreign supply, if it could be proved that there was ' any such depeaciance, he will not te much more rimed on that account to approve of the measure.— The case in this respect put in the extreme was, that, by the present system we might become so dependent l o( supply from other nations that' they could takead vautage of it in case of hostility,. and refuse to supply as. The experience of the Continental system proved the impossibility of any-measure of hostility excluding Us from foreign supply. The danger apprehended from allowing the importation of corn by some was, that it could be sold for so Joy a price as would dig. courage agriculture. The expence of freight and car riage of so bulky an article as corn, besides the ex: pence of shipping and unshipping, warehousing, Bce. was &su ffi cient security against thii.,ln tact fresould 4mt see what effect the proposed meastare ; squid pro. 'duct except towaise the price of corn. Raising the ,price of corn could not even afford any permanent ,advantage•to agriculture. The price of cure entered' into the price of every thing else, and iq process Mf ;time entering into the prices of the instruments of agri culture, and the wages of labourers, would give no additional profit to the farmer. Besides this, in the. present state of the poor laws, the increase of the price ) of corn would affect the profits of the farmer most se. 'riously by encreasing his poor rates: What was the stimulds to agriculture ? Certainly the home mar ket. And any thing tending to limit the extent 'of our manufactures, such as the high price of corn, could not but be reflected on the agricultural interest, and in spite of all laws, essentially injure them. Some frivolously had contended that the effect of the mea sure would be to make the country more an agricul tural. and less a commercial one than it was now.— Admitting it to be for the advantage of the country that this should happen, no law could bring about that which in the nature of things was to be effected only by industry and enterpriie He could hardly bring himself to consent to the measure at any time. ' But he conjured the House to pause before they adop ted a measure inn hich one false step might be atten ded with ruinous consequences to the country for many years. Mr. BRAND agreed, than it would be better that no new measure should be now adopted, if it were not for thfroalects before the edunny. He main tained that half the population of the kingdom de pended on the encouragement of the agricultural-in termits, by some such measure as that now before the House, Mr. ABERCROMBIE professed himself unfa vourable to the Bill. He said, - the question -in his .Mind simply was, whether It was better - for the *in: -wrest of the community at large, that they should ray this prospective tax on the consumer of corn ? He .called upon the House to pause before they laid on 'this additional tax. At least time for further inquiry .he thought absolutely necessary. The Report which ,had been brought up contained information and de tails with , respect to Ireland only ; but if this infor mation was necessary with respect to Ireland, he could not see why it was not equally important with respect to England. Mr. HUSKISSON conceived that the appeal which had been made by a Noble Lord (L , rd ilrchi. bald Hamilton). so general and abstract pt of political econo,my, totally failed ; because the wtioie of our commercial and economical system WAS a sys tem of artificial expedients. If our other regulations with respect to the price of commodities stood upon the basis of the principles of a free trade, then there could be no objectionto leaving our agricultural pro ductions to find their own level. But while our com merce and manufactures were encouraged and forced by protections, by bounties, by restraints on importa tion from abroad, he saw no reason why the laws rela ting to thegrow thof corn should alone form an exceptic n to thisgeneral want of system in almost all ether respects. The examples of Holland, Hamburgh, and Venice, which had been alluded to by the Noble Lord in sup port of his taument Appeared to him by no means in point. two latter., klamburgh and Venice, Were trading towns; and Holland did-not contain a sixth part of the arable land which ' • . ••• • • . • there was in this country. Holland might alwaysderive a isipply . of corn, either from this country, if she were at war with theC,ontineat, or from the Con. tinent, if she were at war with this country ; but we might be so situated as to be eotirely shut out from Zre Y a a gi ter f : re e m . ig ag T n n he i taP tu p d p r e o ly po ;h r s t n H ion s e n o m th f e c o o Gen u r g n h int t ilemeu th parte il a d see n c i r a e a d dt o ii f hi therto been indeed only one thirtY.fifth ; but it might come, if proper measures were not taken to encourage the home cultivation, to be in the proportion of one tenth, or even onefifth. Nothing could be more dan gthearonubsy to safety and d to tra a nq re sti g l u li i t ar y of aa t d he ei c t o e u n e s t i r w y e importation of grain from abroad, to expose it to alt the evils which must in that case result from a sud. den stoppage, or even diminution of the import— whether that stoppage or diminution might arise fr( r, actual scarcity, or, which in some cases would prolut bly occur, from pOlitical and hostile -motives. The effect of the consequent variation of price on the poorer classes would be in the highest degree injurious. —He owned that it would be well if those classes could be taught so much providence as to economize when the necessaries of lite were cheap, in order to enable them to meet a period of dearth ; but .as this was more than could be expected from human na ture, it became the.duty of the Legislature to make such arrangements as would preserve as nearly as possible an even supply. To effect this desirable ob. jeer, the ResOlution proposed by the Hon. Baronet 'seemed *admirably calculated ; and he trusted, that neither the lion. Baronet, nor any other Hon Gen , denten would be deterred from supporting it by any popular clamour that might exist on the subject. No one could suspect that his . approbation of the Resolu tion arose from any personal bias towards what was 'called the Landed' Interest. Several other Honour. •able Gentlemen, - who had maintained the expediency of the Resolution, were similarly-situated ; all which distinctly proved that the- Resolution was recont. mended not. by any partial or selfish feelings, but by considerations of sound and general policy. Act. verting to the agriculture of Ireland, he contended *chat the effect of the Resolution would be materially to encourage it, and this was a strong additional iiP ducermt with bins to vote for its passing -into ale. gislative enactment. The scale which had been sub mitted to the House, be thought would be fully ade• quate to all the purposes which could be required ; it was quite-sufficient to prevent any falling off i the agriculture; and he should give it his support. Mr. MARRY.ATT expatiated on the advantages,. of our various institutions, and on the benefits derived from the nice balance of conteuding ioterests in .the country. If any one of these interests were to obtain a decided preponderance, the result would be the "de. struction, in the first instance, of the other interests, and ultimately of itself. This was the danger he apprehended from the Resolution proposed by Honourable Baronet.—lf, by its influence, grain, and, with grain the other necessaries of life, were ren dered`' more expensive or even kept up at their present price. the agriculturist and landholder might at present be. •oefit. but the artisan and manufacturer, doomed to compete with countries to which the cheapness of food must give extraordinary advantages, would be corn. 'pelted to emigrate, and ever.tually the landed interest would suffer in the general ruin. Mr. FOSTER said, that when the Amendment proorsed by the Noble Lord should be disposed of, he would move the recommitunent of the Resolution. in order to propose as an Amendment, instead of my duty, to prohibit the importation of grain altogether. up to that price at which the duty was to cease, act: cording to the original Resolution. • Mr. PROTHE ROE warmly opposed the Reselu. tine. He adverted to the opposition which he and some Honourable Gentlemen had given *last Session to the Report made by the Committee on this stib:. jest—a Report which, he declared, was full of crudi. ties, and the avowed object of which was to raise. rye price of corn—[Coughing, and win of No! ao repeated it, that the -avowed object of the Reporiias to raise the price of corn I and he would not be de. terred by any high tone 'assumed in that 'House, from speaking his sentiments and advocating the cause of his constituents, who would be seriously injured by the proposed regulations. Sir H. PARNELL observed, that the Honourable Gentleman must have read the Report to which he alluded very imperfectly, to assert that it abounded with crudities. and that the avowed object of it was to raise the price of grain. Neither of these allege.. iioo4 were well founded, and the Hon. Gentleman ought to be more cautious ho he spoke of the labouri - w of &Select Committee of that House, many of whom were men of the highest political attainments and dis• criminstion. Mr. PR OTHEROE said, that he should be happy to have an opportunity of convincing the Honourable Baronet of the accuracy of his character of the Report. The House then divided—For the Amendment 27 —Against it 144—Majority 117. • Co the motion of Mr. FOSTER, the Resolution was then ordered to be recommitted this day, with .a view to the introduction of his Amendment. The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of. and at Half-past Two o'Clock this morning the House adjourned. DUTCH PAPERS. IRVSSELS, MAY it. On the evening of the Gth a great calamity *tobk place at Namur. A quantity of gunpowderSook fire, from wh i t cause is unknown, and blew up the arsenal which stands on the bapk of the Sambre, behind the Cathedral. The church sustained little damage, but si xt etn houses were destroyed, and several individuals perished. ANTWERP, MAY 7. The agent of the HaneeTowns in Belgium and their Consul at this port have taken possession of the tfu• mains of the old Hanseatic House, which had been ee. questrated under Bonaparte's Governmer.t. The first use which this city has made of its recto. ration to liberty has been to send a memorial to the King of France, investing that the pictures which were takes from our churches may be again restored. AMSTERDAM, MAY IS. • Letters from Leghorn mention, that the commerce of that city, under the protection of the high Allied Powers, has already recovered great activity. There was an over fl ow of Colonial Produce in the port el. Leghorn. PIE. EV ND LON Di , TUESDAY, MA P&isclss or WALKS SORN.—HoIi FRENCH 11, We have so announce Pa and we subjoin some intere ?ARIZ'S adventures still aMUS landed in Elba,notwithstandi ellect in one of the Paris I highly probable that Deis at I stated yesterday, waiting the Sovereigns, as to his future throwing a garrison into PI his arrival, was quite of his c which we have Otracted fro! furnishes some curious matter voyage : BONAPART The Austrian Corrynis Bonaparte to Elba is or his parte, who embarked at St. April, lsnded safely at Port of Elba, on the 4th of May. to be hoisted on the towers a fortress, a white Rig, with bees upon a blue ground. IC is not yet known ho island have taken his arrival. commission, we are assured hundred thousand crowns w 4 He purposes to give himself 'Juices to become in a few yea in Europe. "• He complained bittert having been robbed of four Inked how this happened--.i •1 to procure the Regent, wh they took my money, bat I TO THE IMITOR OP TIM * The article inserted in which announces the arrival of Elba, is no doubt correct is not quite so ample as tl give, and which I derived f , e When Bonaparte emb as you have already stated, a French corvette foe his cc the English frigate: but French corvette from sailiq sunder of the latter, M. 10 an eye-witness ot ev ery happenedduring the voya three days ago, and set those friends who were mo the facts to which you bavi - • manner : - - •• Binaparte l profiting authority previotu to his that the Wand of Elba: w place of his retreat, sent of to it a garrison of 2400 i remoteness of the Wand ',..cautions taken to intercept •.baps also by the help of • pnce, _this small number 'rnationof the orders, was - to Porto Ferrajn. The Li themselves as still, to atl i • the command of lionapar jquaintel with his abdicati • 'that they were released fn ' 66 When Bonaparte 13 expressed his surprise at of Elba, whom he never Mere thereupon male to totally uncertiin as to it sue. Not wishing to take begged the Captain of tli to' come to Paris, id or, Fiench Government a ci sumed they were ignor: structions on this poi; English Captain is still ranean with Bonaparte 4 ' M. de Montcabric mission, set off yesterd 1 rendezvous in the Medi • meet the English frig of the nature of the in bearer : but the facts them regarded as perf vrrsion of the affair, ' • .)thers ; only I pledge my sources of informal r (Si ' MATZ It TIM 'MIMI( " 'TAW writer of this kit " Yesterday, on hi Majesty the Emperor c and after basing %cis" dined with Prince Li prepared a small fete 01 the performers of tl their histrionic talcati. " The Duke of Wc return to the South 01 " Musbal Soult d ..1 li