Star. — London, England, 1823-05-13 00:00:00

.~ 'Moat/unjust attack trade by Louis XVIII. upon the liberties of Spain. When, therefore, he referred to the melancholy fruits we derived from Walcheren. and. the disastrous defeat of General Moore, he ifectod on topics not likely to encourage the result( of that military glory since witnessed. No persona knew the opinions he entertained in 1810 better than the person who had taken so unfair an advantage of a former speech, to promote the object of a recent debate is 'abother place. Here he wished to refer , their Lordships to the marked speech Attributed to him upon the change of Adininistration In the year 1812, with respect to our policyin conducting the Peninsular war; when he held that it was not expe dient recall the whole of our forces; but wished, at the same time; to know the opinion of an illus trious Commander (Wellington), as the continuance of warfare 'must' depend on circumstances con nected with ai stirvey of our own resources for war. It was rather. in.,extraordinary fact, that the person (we suppose this allusion was to Mr. Canning) who attacked him lately the House of Commons, had chosen to take partial extracts from his reported opinions; but let their Lordships look narroa ly at changes in opinion, and greater change might be found, to all appearance, than was attributed to him. Upon the melancholy death of Mr. Peiceval, in the month of Way, 1812, when th e Noble . Earl opposite (Liverpool) was anxious to strengthen the Adminis tration, he then applied to Mt. Canning, who re quested to consult his friends; when, ultimately, he declined to accept of place , because he could not consistently give up the Catholic question. lie was not disposed to inquire of Mr. Canning why he had foregone that objection in this instance ; conscience might happen to consist with convenience ; and in the variation of circumstances, Mr. Canning might find reasons for the change. He did not suspect, on the other hand, that the Noble Earl opposite (Liver pool) had changed his known opinion with respect to the Catholic claims; and much less could lie sus pect, for an instant, that his Noble and Learned Friend (for so he would call him) upon the Woolsack had changed his opinion to obtain that summurn banum of his Noble Colleague—the introduction of Mr. Canning into the Cabinet. So lately as the Right Honourable Gentleman's parting speech at I.iverpool, he (Earl Grey) had supposed that it was impossible for him to concede a certain point; but some reported proceedings at Harwich had stag gered the persuasion he formerly held upon this point. That this person, who was a party to such negocia tions, should quote a passage from a speech of his (Earl Grey) was the most extraordinary occurrence that had ever yet taken place, and, he must add, the most unfair proceeding which had ever taken place in the political world. He came now to the last part of his motion, to which he hoped for their Lordships' concurrence. He should now move for " Copies or Extracts of any Communications between Austria, Russia, Prussia, France, and Great Britain, with respect to any engagements entered into by Austria, Russia, and Prussia, to make common cause with France in the invasion of Spain, and his Majesty's corn municationnto those Powers on that subject. Also, Copies or Extracts of any Information submitted to his Majesty's Government respecting the Russian Army on the Vistula, and the object thereof; the same respecting the Austrian Army now in the Mi lanese ; and all information respecting the assembling of Prussian forces upon their frontier nearest to France."—He thought it right that these Papers should be produced, in order that their Lordships might know whether this war between France and Spain was a national war between these two Powers, or whether it was not a war undertaken upon a com mon principle, and in which, if necessary,. the ether Powers were bound to support France. He had ' observed many things which created surprise, and that surprise was not removed by any explanation of the Noble Earl, or by the Papers on the table. He was surprised that, previously to the introduction of the Duke of Wellington -to Monsieur Villele, Mini sters were not aware that Spain was to form a pro minent part in the discussions at Verona. He had before him the speech of the Duke de Montmorency, in which he expresses his surprise that Ministers should have said they were not aware that Spain would form a prominent part in the discussions, be cause their attention was drawn to the fact. From all that be saw, he must come to the conclusion, either that Ministers were the most egregious dupes of the Allies, or that they had intentionally shut their eyes, or that they were making a bad excuse rather than to make no excuse at all ; or,. lastly, that they were deceiving the Public, a charge which he should be the last man in the world to make, unless lie could substantiate it by unquestionable evidence. Monsieur Montmorency stated that England knew the dispute between Russia and the Porte was nearly settled, and that sire, having stated that she would not interfere respect to Italy, must have known that Spain was almost the only thing left for discussion. He also was much surprised that the Duke of \Veiling ton, after having seen the three questions put by France, should say that he had no apprehension of the invasion of Spain, and that the only apprehension at the Congress was an attack by Spain on France. if they had,entertained such apprehensions, they were the most extraordinary he had ever known. Mr. Canning had taken great credit to himself for his success in the negoesation, and he appeared indig nant at the ridicule which was thrown on the instruc tions. Ile admitted that the Right Honourable Gen tleman was entitled to thanks for the part which he had taken, but it was to the thanks of the French.:-- It was said that the exertions of the British Govern ment caused the Congress to break up without.coniing to a joint declaration of war. Now, it vas pretty evident that these Powers had sent Notes to their Mi nisters to depart from Madrid ; and if they were pre vented from making a joint declaration of war, all their acts proved that thsy were ready to make sepa rate declarations, and therefore Spain could not be a gainer. If it' could be shewn that any diminution of the Power opposed to Spain was the result of the lite . negociations, he should be glad to qualify anything which he might have said; but if the prite of Eng lish neutrality was not the neutrality of the Allies, lie could not see what good all these negociations, for which thanks were required, had produced. What, be would ask, would it be contended that Powers who would send Notes in reprobation of a Constitu tion were not determined, if necessary, to support a Power engaged in putting down that Constitution—a ~ Constitution which ..as Weft to _Pop griY tdan could ipliettainA9)9.4 -/ TranaßliisiOn of Aim Notikatfd tifftt tl sign! of #itiicable intercourse, there' could Ailltl net be war, or that Fraii4 was hot pn ward as the agent of these Sovereignh and that fhot ikas bound to conduct it upon principles agreeable to them. Could any one doubt, after the speeches de livered in the French Chamber, that France was pin% 'suing the policy of Louis XlV.—the union of France and Spain, which England ought, by all means in ber power, to exert herself to prevent? He was sa tisfied that nothing could consolidate the Bourbon Government so effectually as the union of France and Spain ; and twenty days of successful war would do ' more for the French Government than all which had been hitherto done. He contended that, from all the correspondence between the French, Austrian, and Russian Ministers, and from the Proclamation of the Duke d'Angouleme, it was apparent that they all considered France only as the agent of those conspi rators, who avowed principles incompatible with the peace and safety of Europe. He understood that, in reply to a question asked in another place, it was stated that there was an army on the Vistula, but whether great or small he could not say. He was surprised at this answer, when he considered the considerable expense at which this country maintained Ministers abroad. He bad heard that the army on the Vistula consisted of 120,000 men, well provided with everything necessary to take the field. This being the case, he thought their Lordships ought to call upon his Majesty's Ministers to state what representations had been made to them with re spect to this army, and the Austrian army in the Mi lanese, which was ready to act when required. He also thought their Lordships ought to have information re specting the Prussian army on the frontier nearest to France. If it were true that these forces were sta tioned in these places, could it be doubted for a mo ment that they were there for the purpose of pro moting the common object? It was said that he wished for war. No man dreaded war more than he did, and no man would abstain more than he would, provided he could do so without surrendering the na tional honour. No man felt more than he did - the miseries of war. No man in his time had witnesseJ more cf the calamities of war than he had; and he now must b.l expected to wish that the remainder of his life, which must be near its close, should be passed in peace rather than in war ; but when he saw the measures which were taken, and the dangers to which this country was exposed, he must say, that as this country had not remonstrated, he would rather now engage in the struggle than suffer the honour of this country to be tarnished. He was satisfied that, taking into consideration the state of the French Ca binet, the uncertainty of success in the invasion of Spain, and the certainty of being opposed by Great Britain, would have prevented the war, if England had at Verona assumed the tone of manly dignified remonstrance. He considered the success of the' .French in Spain as more injurious to this country than the success of Bonaparte would have been, as he, if he had succeeded; could not rely upon those ' - whom he had subdued, and therefore would not ven ture to act on so extended a scale of iniquity as these Sovereigns, whose thrones had similar foundations, and which could only be supported by driving tioni every corner of the Continent everything haVing the semblance of liberty. The Noble Lord having re probate 1 the policy of Ministers towards Naples, Piedmo it, and Spain, concluded by moving for the Papers he had enumerated in the course of his speech. The Earl of LIVERPOOL then rote.—He certainly should oppose the motion of the Noble Earl, because he thought that nee Parliamentary ground bad been mace out ; but, at the same time, he trusted that he should give to the questions proposed by the Noble Earl such answers as would satisfy their Lordships that there was no indisposition on his part to give the Noble Earl the information required, if there had been made out any Parliamentary ground for the production of the Paperi. The first piece of infor mation asked for was relative to a vessel captured in the West Indies by the French vessel Jean Bart. He did not stand up there as the apologist of France; but where justice was due he would not deny it; and in this instance he must state, in justice to France, that as soon as. the French Government was made acquainted with the circumstance by this .Govero - the greatest anxiety was manifested on their part to explain to this country that they had• no knowledge of the transaction other than what the from the public papers ; but it did not rest here, for the French Minister gave Sir C. Stuart a most distinct assurance that no orders had been is sued by the French Admiralty to capture either ves sels bearing the Spanish or any other flag. This Go vernment still wishing to obtain as much information as possible, applied to the English commanders on the West India station, and they reported that there was in the %Vest Indies a French squadron; that the commanders treated the flags of all nations with re- 1 spect ; but that the vessel captured was a Spanish letter of marque-i-that she first fired into the Jean Bart, which returned the fire, and ultimately suc ceeded in capturing her (Hear, hear.) He should say but a word or two with respect to the Proclansa.l tion issued by the Provisional Government in Spam' This Government had no correspondence orcomm&l nication with that Government ; and the French Go- 1 vernment in the most solemn manner disclaimed all participation in that Proclamation. With respect to the two other points upon which the Noble Earl re quired information ; first, as to the communications from Austria, Russia, - and Prussia, relative to their making common cause with France in the invasion of Spain ; and secondly, as to the assemblage on their frontiers of Russian, Austrian, and Prussian armies. Before he gale any answer to these points, he must beg leave to say a word or two upon what bad fallen from the Noble Earl, with respect to what had been said by a Right Han. Friend of his in another place, who was only anxious to do justice to himself, and who would be the last man to deny to the Noble Lord the justice due to him for his feeling upon that occa sion; and he was satisfied that if his Right Honour able Friend were placed Opposite to the Noble Earl, there .would, after the explanation given, not be the least difference of opinion; but the Noble Earl did at that time hold out the language of caution, and the language of prudence, to avoid those measures in which we were then engaged, and which ultimately led to the glory of this country; but he was satisfied h a e s ; ft i ng s4/4- iio u t s1411 4 ,1 0 ,1":1: tesecattit°ininbe tween th S e Pa di n ffe i LLT B bet an ween gPaia a :4 41 1: t i a t 'l a iovasiirof Spain (hear.) country at that period and now ; and had iittorel the opinions of the Noble t4at.,he was justified in maintaining, alihograh Oe.fek his opinions then with for 4pain at that period, that we should be se l l yi s. onions now with his con- tious of entering into a war in her behalf. Now-} e duct now. He would put It to the Noble Earl, was begged their Lordships to attend to thet.ittife of oi l he, with his opinions as they were now, prepared to argument, as contrasted with that Noble Lawfts t , give effect to them in the only way in which it could gument in this day, for involving us in a w a y. w i th be given to them ? for open that alone the question France in•favourof Spain, without being able toi l , of peace or war hinged. In 1808, he had no doubt her the slightest assistance as things now st oot o~ that the Noble Earl felt as strongly as any man the That socli mast he result of following the ad o i ct atrocity of the invasion of Spain ; that he felt for the of that Noble Earl he bad no hesitation to assert, sufferings and privations of the Spaniards, and that If our pul , cy set us at war with France, h e " old he felt what every man in thi s cou n try must feel far ,look the danger full in the face, and iesolve to aie r a nation struggling in the sacred cause of liberty; the Spaniards effectually, and this it oas imito s ika o but the Noble Earl had at . that time exercised his to do,except we sent an army into Spain. TIT N o w prudence, his wisdom, and his caution, to dissuade us' Lord had next asserted that it was ours uty t of u " from embarking in a struggle out of which we came held out a menace to France, so as to induce her to triumphant. He asked any man, either civil or mi- desist from her attempted interference. A roy aori litary, could Spain at that time resist France, as she might render war unavoidable. You must be p re: was then in the plenitude of her power—having al. pared for the latter if you had resolved upon the4i s i, most all Europe at her command, and compelling the He could not help thinking that our embarking i d countries through which her armies passed to support the war on the side of Spain would render the ow them? He would answer, no; and that the true po- more popular in France than it now was. If the na te licy of this country was to assist her, and to prevent of things rendered it necessary for us to go to wa r France from acquiring any additional power in the did that Noble I,ord.really believe that the cap ture Peninsula. To what, then, it might be asked, wa s of Martinique or the wilding of a fleet to crtilxe a • - the success of Spain to be attributed? Ile wo u ld the merchant vessels in the Channel or in the Medi. answer, it was to the position of his Noble F r i e nd, t h e terrane an , wou ld b e sens ibl y fel t a f ter a fortnight fud 'puke of Wellington, in Portugal; and it w as to hi s passed over, so as to induce France to relinquish a exertions that Spain was indebted for her freedom, great object she had asserted so solemnly was es and not to the sympathy of the Noble Earl, who tial to her repose? These were ideas too antiquated wished to dissuade the Government from putting to be supposed capable of influencing France in ter forth its energies. But the Noble Earl s aid, circum- conduct towards Spain, when, if at.: reliance was to 'stances had taken place which he had not content- be placed on the expression of sentiment in the debates plated, and that he thought Bonaparte would not in the French Chamber of Peers, mere than one pe t . think of other conquests hefOre he had accomplished son there had, with an Ultra loyal spirit, talked on his object in S iain. Nor woul•-I he, ii he bad not well the subject of the views of France on Spain -as if known that Spain, united and supported by a-British they were about to realise all the views of Louis XIV. army, could not be conquered, and he went to oth er and the objects of the Family Compact. Such a per. countries to make up for his loss of reputation. When son would naturally say, you may take a ship ova be stated to the Noble Earl that the French had no fleet of our merchantmen, or even a colony, it shall ground in Spain except what was covered by her not prevent our obtaining our object, which is of in army; and when, so far back as 1811, he ventured finitely more importance. It would be worse than an to predict the success of Great Britain, he wished that insult to France to say to her, we will go to war with the language of the Noble Earl on that occasion you without taking any steps to make our interference should not be forgotten. It was true, that after the effectual. It was like spitting in her face, and shewing noble defence made at Torres Vedras, the opinions of that we were angry and could do nothing else to vett the Noble Earl were altered; but to 1812, although our spleen. And yet the Noble Lord would not the Noble Earl was not prepared to withdraw the hesitate to plunge us in a war without any object army from the Peninsula, yet the whole tenour of his justify our departure from the safe line of peace.— speeches, and of his conduct was, if he might be al- In the whole history of this country he knew of ne lowed the expression, to throw cold water upon the individual who had gained a great character in war whole transaction, and to represent the Government who was not a lover of peace, from a knowledge of as over-sanguine in their assistance to Spain ;* and, the difficulties of a state of war. Such a man wouldsay,, in short, that success could not be expected. The remain then at peace until you have a cause wonky Noble Earl said, the whole force of this country was of you. ‘Vhatever might be the general sentiment, 'in Spain. Where, he would ask, could it be better he was far from complaining of it; but the state ia' employed? Spain, from its local advantages, was which we were ought to be examined. Let them* selected as the theatre upon which we must contend look to the address alluded to by the Noble Lori, for the peace of Europe. He would not say that the and it would be found that it was there said we'p peace of Europe was completed in Spain; but he on with the war because we could not possibly mi‘ must say that it was begun there. The victory at peace. Hence the Ministers had resolved to mike Salamanca encouraged Russia to come forward, and war in Spain, because there it could be most dee. the victory at Vittoria encouraged the Allies again tual. Now, he would ask if it was not the fact that to exert themselves; but to the exertions of England the bearing of all these arguments went to prove in Spain was to be attributed the general pacification. the reverse from the inference he then drew, in cola Before he entered into what passed at the Congresses at Sequenie of tie altered situation of Spain at present Vienna and Verona, he should comment upon what contrasted, with her condition in 1808? Its situatias had fallen from the Noble Earl, with respect to a de- was altogether different now; her's was a divided po- . claration of a Right Hon. Friend of his in another pulation, consisting of those who supported and those place, that the interference of England had the effect who hated her Constitution. There was too an equal of preventing the Allies froth issuing a joint declara- degree of enthusiasm on the part of one and theotbew' tion.of war. The Noble Earl expressed great surprise This was a most important consideration; for wir that this .Government was not aware that Spain no longer embarked with the whole populatiewek wraild Thom Itt - ptominent part in the discussions at Spain against France, as we did before, but with OM Verona.: 'What he (Lord Liverpool) had said to their half at least as favourable to the cause consecrated, LorashiPs, and what he would say now was, that he by the b anners o f R e li g i on. T he cause too was dit.; knew the affairs of Spain would be discussed; but he . ferept—it was the cause of the Government of Spain, did not think they would form a prominent part in with the King of Spain nominally at their head ; but: the discussions ; in proof of which opinion he Would they would not say, whilst they advised our embark. refer Noble Lords to the conduct of the British Go. ing in all those difficulties for their sake, that it was: vernment. He was ready to admit that when the for the real interests of Spain. In 1808 too we were Duke of Wellington left this country the question at war—in 1823 we were at peace. The mode $: between Russia and the. P orte was expecte d to f orm carrying on the war too would be proved to be d' the prominent part in the discussions at Verona ; and ferent. When Bonaparte carried on the war in Spain, .1 as a proof of that, the 13ritish Minister at the Porte he made it support itself; as he went on he drew his, was requested by the Emperor of Russia and King of supplies for the army out of the country, which coat Prussia to come to Verona for the purpose of render- him nothing.' War supported war. Now.. the Papi ing effectual services by his mediation and his infor- of France was the very reverse. She paid for every , matiou upon the subject, and the British Minister article which she used. France was thus exhaintlik did go to Verona. He 'would again say, that there herself, whilst we were in reality husbandinge‘' . ' was no joint decla ra tio o of war; and no act - on t h e resources b y cult i vating peace. The Nobki LIN POO of krance or the Allies could have led this coun- had argued that we should go to war, lest son's*. ' try to believe that war must necessarily follow. He Goo knows what, should - force us to go to would admit that Instructions had been sent by the Now, in the first place, this GOD knows what four PourFrot4Oleir Ministers at Madrid, and he did never happen; and in the next place, he held not mean to May . 'that all which was done by these when we did go to war, if it was necessary se met . Powers indicated a disposition on their part to con- that we should go to war with effect. He wavier dema the Spanish Revolution, and all persons con- taking the present good offered. He saw no remit netted with it, and that they sheaved no disposition to to be apprehensive that we, a nation so brave enter into war at last ; but all they had done at Ve- powerful, could not enjoy the blessings of peace ' rona wa s . of a defensive nature- - a ll th e i r engage - out any, apprehensions, should a war break tatty, .. 5 meets to support France were contingent. The con- ;the consequences. Look not to a 'short or a tkajill tiogencies were—first, if France should be attacked i war, which would be finished in a campaign. - Ifthe . by Spain, or Spain should attempt to disseminate re- sword were once drawn from theitcabbard it - isem volutionary principles; secondly, in case any violence difficult to say when it would again be sheothed4 lisi should be offered to any of the Royal Family ; and let us be prepared to meet it like men when's* le thirdly, in case.of an attempt to change the dynasty. came. This was the view his Majesty% Goverdthrt . These were the three contingencies, in th e event o f h a d ta k en of the question.. It was their wish*pees • which the Allies bound themselves to assist France; serve peace and notoo excite war, iii order that * but up to this day, as far as he (the Earl of Liver- might reap the profits of it. Much-bad been Mid 4 pool) knew, there was no other engagement on the those who iniquitously had combined to. invoices • part of the Allies to make common cause with Europe a rigorous despotism, and .break down . err , France. When he said this, he did not mean to deny lib ert y. B ut h e wou ld te ll the Noble Lord, if thole , that all the acts of the Allies amounted to a moral were these dangers on one hand, these were dastg# condemnation of Spain; but he denied that the b rea k- on t h e v i er w hi c h were hardly less alarming, 7110 0 ing op of all diplomatic intercourse, however un- werg Calpagcrous tendency to introduce pelolll wise, and however inconvenient, - must necessarily changes ood revolutionary systems, and whiok.ealtit be folloWed by a declaration of war.--As to the mind mow equally great. This was the sane of sla questions which had been put to him upon the .objections 'he had to the principles laid dowirit-tbr rumours that an Irmo was assembling on the Vis- Noble Lord, and consistently with this view ' Or tula, and that the Anstrians , who had evacuated su bje ct h e cou ld not t hi n k o f ac i e di ag to th e Ingu,m Naples, had halted in the Milanese, he-believed.that of the Niable.Earl—(Cheer4 . _-. ' . la- i . .. these had not been 'misrepresentation s .. The re was . - Lord HOLLAND considered that oneirait 4 . 1g11r - no militia to imagine that in so - assembling their Noble Lord's speech was a triumphant hiswiner° ll ' troops on the frontiers the Allies had any improper the. eminent successes of the late war; asElboto motives ; they had assembled their troops where they maining part was a most math-dinar? , topic eo'b* had an undoubted right to assemble them, namely, addressed to a British House of ParltaMen_-_„t—thst on their own territory. He w as not t h e apo l og i st o f colonies, ships ,- and money, . were nothing; m 1 "1 France or of-ber policy ; b u t he certainly thought to talk of the wooden walls of Old Englaad - Wag.. . that after what bad happened lately in Europe the tiquated, and quite a farce. The whole of thel 4o o l6 assembling of these troops on .the frontier might be Lord's speech. he thought was a fallacy. Ithabildi considered a 'measure of just and prudent p r e caut i on .' sa id b y hi s N o bl e F r i en d , on t h e wnestien of t he & oar The Noble Lord had argued on the diff er e nce o f si- in Spain iu 1808, that it might be questionable estic4able bo w ,c,,,,,,,,.., t t: Wr i tif ,t a a rl m , a w is he a n nd h 4 that aft er , ifokt to the last unprtyipled the :aspen- *aced qothing against the d 'be, the arl, but the question was, id put for- his conduct then, and his opir .