Star. — London, England, 1823-03-26 00:00:00

et fr, .$). IR ve said, leaving He had 'e made his real' I shook cctiracy what- .ll in ar; I , e very the pO - in sci :ertainly 7 in any I; of the ape lire: nch colony rd Nlans- Id not be hat Cape :he other al to de to unite ent from hat there ;islatures nd Cape oise was .ssembly. y had no vance for ie de! , t of !ncy was with de ance that ;id heard, ication to wished to a Court atnic.ition ause they Ild not be ty to thtir I Govern- ‘hich in treatment ice—that t was one :!,t the en y of ter of po to Great rights of they were .h law, or the table, observed, to present individual e.tve Lon 'pointed of present the to bi mg it though he ind-. The inderstood, , he hoped, T then de lay in find had been A Meeting Iney, in the gour of the lught light, on to Nova ippointed a n, to ascer ecourse to. Id however papers en to the colo in had been done at the ied, that his in the mar ling, he re on, and he 'ce common ietly pledge the subject, with a view )n was then URROPS 0% he had the Secretary of its place, he question to ktitled to re madness of considerable stifiable war, ntentions of it, he con lent and the !lative situa d to foreign ask the Right er there wag this countrl ther directly of France to the liourbod use would 90 ir the question A question required the orrect and er' hatever info . upon it must s which were !ssion of 181 4 ! ri probation 01 t h os e tleatles ned a stipule, the Crown!' • or any of f arb ay, the Allied.ftwqrs were. to put themselves into action to resist it with their united forces.-- (Hear, hear).—He likewise believed, that in case of a revolution arising in France from any other cause, and being directed by soy other persons, a stipula tion in another of the treaties made it incumbent upon the Allies, or at least upon Prussia, Russia, Austria, and England, which were bound by sepa rate.treaties with each other, to meet together, and to consult in common what measures it might be prudent for them to take in consequence—(Hear, hear). —Perhaps in the mass of treaties there might be other stipulations relating to this subject; but taken as he was thus unexpectedly, he must observe, that the stipulations to which he had just alluded were the only stipulations which suggested themselves tm the instant to his recollection —(Hear, hear). Lord J. RUSSELL admitted that, after the state :tient which the Right Hon. Gentleman had just made, he should not be justified in pressing upon him at that time for further explanation. He must, however, ex press a hope, that the Right Hon. Gentleman would duly consider the various treaties to which he had just referred, in order that he might explain to the House as soon as possible the situation which the country occupied at present in relation to foreign Powers. He said thk, because he was sure that the Right lion. Gentleman must be aware that the unprincipled in vasion of Spain by France might in a short time to tally alter our present situation with the latter Power —( Loud cries of Hear, from the Opposition . benches). Besides it was incumbent on the Minister of this country—after having expended a thousand millions to place the Bourbons on thethrone of France, in the fond hopes of obtaining from them a firmer security for the continuance of peace and tranquillity in Eu rope than could be obtained from any other family— ( Load cheers acrain from the Opposition benches)—it wa s incumbent,'he repeated, upon them, to clear them sdves even from the suspicion of being bound by any sipulation to expend even, a single shilling in future behalf of so worthless and imbecile a family.— (;reat cheering.) Mr. CANNING contended that the present was an inc.mvrnient time to enter into such an argument as eie Noble Lord had just started. He had understood tire Noble Lord to put a question to him upon a mat ter of fact; and he had given the Noble Lord an .auaer on the point, which, as far as his memory served, he believed to be correct. Taken as he was, upon the sudden, he would not pretend to allirm that hemight not have omitted some material stipulations. The Noble Lord had interrogated him as to a matter of fact: he had given the Noble Lord the best answer it his power; and the return the Noble Lord bad made him far it was to found upon it a political argu ment of no mean or trilling importance. He must observe, that young as he was in his present olfice, no conduct was more calculated to discourage him from answering questions from that (the Opposition) bide of the l louse—a courtesy which he was always de sil oas of extending to it—than the conduct which the Noble Lord had just pursued, in founding au argu ment on the answer which he had just received,. (Cries or Hear, from the Ministerial Benches). LaRIJOHN - RUSSELL complained that the Right Hon. Gentleman had completely misunderstood the drift of his last observations. He had not founded any argument upon the answer of the Right Hon. Gentleman, he had merely intended to forewarn him of the line of argument which it was probable would be pursued when the late negotiations at Verona and elsewhere should be brought before the ;onside,' ration of the House. Sir RORERT WILSON wished to put the Right lion. Gentleman opposite in possession of a fact, with which he believed that few Gentlemen at the present moment weie acquainted. When the treaty of Cho, talon was pined upon the table, he had put a similar question to the Noble Lord. who then tilled the Right llon.Gentleman's situation that his Noble Friend had just put to the Right Honourable Gentleman himself. He had then received from the Noble Lord to whom Leh.td alluded, a distinct and positive answer, that this country was not bound by any guarantee to se cure the Clown of France to the Bourbon family-- (Hent, hear).—lie therefore hoped, that the Right lion. Gentleman would not gratuitously take upon himself that odi , nis responsibility to which his Noble predecessor had never dared to render himself liable. Mr. CANNING said, that he had already stated, that, by the existing treaties, a Revolution produced in France in favour of the late Emperor Napoleon or any his family was a cams federis, which called um the Allied Powers to take np antis to put it down. In case of any other Revolution excited either by means or in favour of any other individuals, there was no other stipulation than this—that the Allied Powers should assemble to concert and con sult what measures they ought to take. It WAS int risible either for him of any ,other Member to uitg *bat might be the result of such deliberations—. (Hear).—The subject then dropped. CIVIL LlsT. Mr. LENNARD rcse to make his motion for in fdemation with respect to the third class of the Civil, lac This he intended as preparatory to a motion! kettle reduction of this class of the Civil List; and he could not anticipate any objection to his motion. The House was entitled to the accounts of the savings pa this branch of the public expenditure ; for the *Me Marquis whom the Right Hon. Gentleman had succeeded, had granted voluminous accounts of t*etapen.ses of Foreign Ministers, and when that was duce last year to such an extent, he saw no reason it hl his more limited motion should be refused. He thould be sorry if the Right Hon. Secretary should deprive the House of these documents. If report e true, some reduction had been made in that ex kavitgaut mission to the Swiss Cantons. If that was 1 2: he thou g h t i t a proo f o f t h e necess i t y of th e :"aPers which he wanted to he produced. He must " what reductions had been made in this branch lithe Civil List, before he could siove for Any other faction in it. The Hon. Gentleman concluded by 14 " las an Address to the Crown for " a Return of a KII decrease of the expense in the third class of the 1141 LA si nce t h e Sid of May, l on, stating whether rich decrease bad been occasioned by any diminu .l," Di the nu m b er of persons emp l oye d, by t h e a lt e rs : 'l' , 410 1 the r an k o f persons so emp l oye d or ot h erw i se . ti 14 . CANNING.—I t the object of the' Hon. Gen ...7'4111/m Li) learn whe t he r the expenses of the r'dciass of d ie Civil Li st had b een k ept w i t hi n t h e o ands criittctibed by law; it was' already prot'ided 1 uale lAw, that the savings, it any, should be carried to the Consolidated Fund, an account of, which . Was annually laid before Pskamint. If *al wished to know th e amount o f any particular saving,.! he (Mr. Canning) could only observe, that the saving could not be made until the arrangement had been carried into effect. He admitted the right of the House to know the appointments by the Crown, and the expenditure arising from those appointments ; but he did not think it would be exercising a wise discri niination to inquire into changes which were about to take place. Ile had no difficulty in mentioning, as a matter of information, that a change was about to take place in two or three of the foreign missions : that the mission to the Swiss Cantons would become vacant, and that the person appointed to succeed the present Minister would only have half the character, and consequently reduced allowances ; whether re duced in the same proportion, he could not now say. He gave the Hon. Gentleman the fact, and he might draw from it his own arguments and conclusions. If blame or corruption were charged, unquestionably upon a case stated, it might be very fit for Parlia nient to require information; but where, as in the present instance, there had been an exercise of eco nomy on the part of the Crown, the interposition of the House seemed worse than useless. If the Hon. Gentleman had imputed blame, he (Mr. Canning) should have resisted the production of the Return, unless a grave Parliamentary case had been made out ; but be could oppose it with the better grace, and with the less suspicion, when the information sought would redound to the credit of Ministers. Even in the best and most jealous times, it had not been the course thus to interfere with the management of the Crown in this particular, but merely in cases where special animadversion was necessary. As far as a saving had been made, he repeated that it would be seen by tile annual accounts, and he hoped that the House would be of opiniop t that in resisting the motion he resisted no proper or reasonable information. Lord J. RUSSELL thought this a most extraor dinary opposition on the part of the Right Hon. Gen tleman. No blame had been imputed to Ministers, when Lord Londonderry granted a similar Return last year. He was glad to hear that this Embassy to Switzerland was to be reduced one half. True it was, that the motion with this object last year had been supported by what was called a bad division—that is to say, the minority was very small compared with the majority. Nevertheless, it was now fol,tpd that such a reduction could be effected, and it showed that, notwithstanding "a bad division," the minority might sometimes be in the right—(Hear, hear). Mr. HUME argued that if the motion were refused the Opposition side of the House could not be pre pared for a debate. The question was one of great importance, and he really believed that the Right Hon. Gentleman was not aware of the enormous sums the people of England paid annually for foreign mis sions. If Government had a sincere disposition to economise, they would not refuse the Return. From the former Return it appeared that In 1818 the whole expense was X 257,020 tell - . - - 323,000 taw 1821 . - - 298,457 Although the papers were not yet printed, it might be found that upwards of 1300,000 had been charged upon the Raw :account for the year . lie en pealed to the c4adour ancliairness of the Right lion. Gentleman not to refuse the return required. , Mr. HVSKISSON would state an authority against the production of the Return, quite a, high, even in these times, as that of the Hon. Member for Aber dreo.—he meant Mr. Fox ; who had laid it down 4$ a principle, that the House ought not to inquire into' ' the particulars of the Civil List, unless there were reasons to know that it was in debt. While the Crown confined the expense of foreign missions within the sum limited by law, the House of Commons had hitherto, and he thought wisely, abstained from in vestigating the particular application of the money. The Hon. Member for Aberdeen seemed to confound two things quite distinct, viz.—the amount of the establishment of the third class of the Civil List, and the contingent and extraordinary expenditure, not in the shape of salaries or allowances, which came an nually as a grant before the House. The House might, were it necessary, call for an account of the particulars of these contingent bills, drawn by foreign Ministers. The limit in this country was I:226,000 : but if this sum were compared with the expenditure for the same purpose in France, it would be found that it considerably exceeded the charge in this kingdom. Sir FRANCIS BURDETT expressed his gratifica. tion at hearing the authority of the late Mr. Fox quoted on the other side; there was much reason to regret and to repent that it had not been followed many years ago. The Devil, it had been observed, could quote Scripture to his purpose; and the Right [lon. Gentle man could quote the authority of Mr. Fox, whenever it made in his favour. In this instance, however, he had grossly misrepresented it, for the utmost Mr Fox had ever said upon the Civil List was, that Parliament would unwillingly bring under its review any expenses of the Royal Family, but he had no reference to the third branch of the Civil List. At a time like the present, when the country was distracted between pro bable disturbance from its relations abroad, and the pressure of intolerable burdens at home —surely, at such a time, it was especially the duty of Parliament to inquire into every department of expenditure, and, if possible, to effect reduction in every department. "lad what objection could be made to furnishing the accounts in question? What objection could the Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite set up? The Hon. Baronet sat down by declaring that he knew of no motion, at the present moment, more likely to be ser vieeable, or more fit to be complied with. Mr. LgNNARI), in reply, said, that the same re turn would hare contented him which had been given last year; but as he saw no more chance of obtaining that account than the account he was moving for, lie should feel it his duty to take the sense of the House upon his present motion. The House then divided, when the numbers were..— For the Motion - 2* . Against It - • - 50 Majority - • • DISMISSAL 01 COLONSI. HOMIL Mr. BENNET rose for the purpose‘of mbVing fbr certain Papers connected with the dismi.sal of etlo nel Home from the service of the British Army.— Colonel Home was not an obscdre mai' in the Pettit). sular war, in Germany, or on 'the 'Continent . . He had been in all the great actions in the Peninsula and at Waterloo ire kept the post . of HugnettiOn!., calla emphatically the key of the position of that day, and 'received for his gallantry thethaeks of the lArike.of - .Wellington. Upon the conCltision of the first peace, - in 1814, Colonel Home entered into a mining eon- ,cern at Dudley, in Worcestershire, carried o n un d e r 'the firm of Salisbury and Co. and out of that con nexion aroe the circumstances which were -now to come before the House. There were six partners in! the adventure; and four of them were so convinced of the ill course their trade was taking, that they agreed that it would be better to stop the works al together than to continue carrying them on upon the principle cn which they had so far been conducted. Colonel Home now became anxious to quit a specu lation so ruinous, but the partners would not release him from his responsibility, though be offered to re linquish half his property'. So circumstanced, and seeing little chance ofextricating himselffroin a losing trade, Col. Home took the opinions of several emi nent lawyers; and was advised so have bills drawn upon him to a very large amount, accepting those bills in the name of the firm, and so compelling his partners, by these draughts upon them, to a settlement. One of these bills was presented for payment; and then a placard was stuck up in the streets, toll of most gross and infamous falsehoods, and he wrote to a friend, stating that the parties were liars, and that he was ready to demand the satisfaction due'to an Officer and a Gentleman. This came to the ears of his brother Officers, and they determined on the in vestigation of the whole affair. A Court of Inquiry was then appointed by the Commander-in-Chief to investigate the concern in which he was involved with the firm of Salisbury and Co. -The Court met, and came to resolutions for which there was not a shadow of foundation. They first foand Colonel Home a partner in the firm of Salisbury and Co. but they had no evidence when he became a partner, or that he was one at all. The next was, that Colonel Home had given his assent to an arrangement of-the con cei is by his partners. In this there was not a word of truth; for he had only given his assent to one spe• citic purchase, but not to any general arrangement. The next resolution was, that bills were drawn by Colonel Ho. - ne's brother, though the terms of the partnership forbade him to do so. That he denied ; and Colonel Home, besides, affirms lord swears, that he never saw the terms or articles of the partner ship, nor had any one ever said that he did see them. The Duke of Gloucester thought, that Colonel Home's conduct should be inquired into by a General Court Martial, unless he sent in his resignation. The-whole of the charges were submitted to the Judge Advnviltts who thought the matter was not one for trial by al Court Martial, without- exposing Colonel Home to injustice, and therefore a Court Of Inquiry was much better than the formal one of a Court Martial, Which was governed by evidence solely. Another charge against Colonel Home was, that he asked the Qua-. ter-Master of the regiment to pass as Colonel Home to a Mr. Wilmington, who served on him an injunction from the Court of Chancery. The Quarter-Master de nied that he had requested hint to do so, or that he passed for Colonel Home, thenelt Wianington said he did do so: he was also contradicted by Colonel H:s servant, who was with the Quarter-blaster at the time. —A Court of Inquiry was instituted, which came to the notable resolutions he had mentioned, 'and Colo nel Home was allowed, made*. those resolutions, to sell out, at the regulatioroprice of 4.4.499, with the loss of his company. In bringing this question for ward, his great object was to raise up in some degree the character of an injured man. Though he could not give him back the commission he had lost, or the bonnets which had been torn from him, yet he hoped Ire would be able to set up his character, wounded* it had been by this accusation, in of opinion of his; ancient military friends. The . Hon. Member coin-' eluded by moving for " Copies of the Minutes of a Court of Inquiry, and of all documents laid before it, in the matter of Lieutenant-Colonel Home; late of the Sd Foot Guards, in the year PUB." Lord PALMERSTON opposed the motion, on the ground that the proceedingi of a Court of Inquiry were of a confidential nature, the minutes being taken by order of the Commander.in-Chiel. He thought no case had been made %it for so strange and un usual a motion. Ile did not blame ColOnel Home for wishing to get out of a losing concern ; bug he blamed him for the means he employed, which were calculated to have the remaining capital of the firm answerable fur losses from which he wished to exempt himself. He should have inquired before he entered into the concern. But, instead of that, he got his brother to draw bills, which he accepted ; these bills were sent among umbrella-makers, cloth-makers, and others, and brought into the market against the firm. There could he no doubt that Colonel Home knew the nature of the message brought by Win nington, who served him with the Injunction. Hs could not but believe, that if Quartermaster Weston had not wished to pass for Colonel Home, he would have said—" Here must be some mistake, 1 am not Colonel Home," or something of that sort.— One s sight judge a little of the character of an indi vidual Iron, the manner in which he set about .de fending himself. A persop wholly free from reproach would hardly plead so directly to a charge as to post bills on dead walk and in bye-corners. He held in his hand one of the counter placards, in which Colonel Home, Lieetersant-Colonel of the guards, had replied to the charges posted .in other bills, but not printed perhaps in quite so large a letter.—[Here the Noble Lord produced one of the placards.;]—At first the Commander-in-Chief had intended to bring Col. Horne to a Court Martial, bat such a proceeding it was thought would so interfere with other actions that were pending, that it could not be adopted with jus tice to others. ibis opinion had been given by the Judge Advocate, and it was borne out by the result. Twice Colonel Home had applied to Courts of Justice, with a view .of commenting proceedings, founded on the minutes of the Court of Inquiry; but the Chief Justices Abbott and Dallas had de cided that they could not or d er th e production 'of the minutes of a Military Court of Inquiry. The Noble Lord proceeded to sires- that Courts of Inquiry neje of no recent date. It had been com mon to have recourse. to them from the middle of the last century, and be believed they had been common at ad earlier period.' Chief Justice Abbott had de 'scribed' a Court of Inquiry to be differeut from a Couto of Justice ; but he conceived it to be that which his gajeurwo aiwupetsia to appoitu, and he held it to be a y Cry gracious:lnt/de-of dealing with an o ffi cer, rohosk - cOuduct had bora called in question,. to sobmit . , - : ~:o~_~. .s._ _ . . • the care to the 'cOnsiclersifion off' his birithei• before . heAvaisikinsfer442r4taht When the If.n. gentleman fuunied that the decision of a Court of Inquiry was fiMil, he was- quite mistaken: He thought, upon the whole, that there were ample grounds for ternoving,Colonel Home from hii cot*. 'nand, as he had been removqd. He had not beed dismissetJ the service, btlt was :Wowed to sell the whole of his commissions. lite Court of Inquiry, it was to be remembered, had sat three times. Colonel Home complained that at its first sitting he hid noe been allowed to examine witnesses, as lie could have wishes, which he thought had operated materially against him. The Court, upon this, re•assembled, to afford hint an opportunity of supplying anything which he wished to offer. Colonel Home, of course availed himself I , f this opportunity—no such thing; having lemon precluded from examining witnesses, as he had proposed to do berme, be declined appearing before the Court again. Ile (Lord Palmerston) trusted the House would agree with him in thinking that no •case had been made out, to justify an interference with the at.' mitred prerogative of the Crown: Mr. BENNO' replied, and stated that Colonel Home was most anxious to be tiled by a Court-Mar.; tial. The motion was then negatived without a division. NF. I .:TOUNDT.AND. Mr. WILNIOT moved for leave to bring in a Bill to Amend the Laws in Newfoundland. It was his intention to have the Bill printed, and with the per mission of the House, to take the debate on the second reading. The Bill hhd three general objects—first, the Amendment of the Laws respecting.the Fisheries; second; the Improvement of the Calms of Justice; and last, the institution of a Local Power to make Bye Laws under certain circumstances. • Sir JOHN NEWPORT objected to the principle of two independent Judicatures in the island, and its being optional to the inhabitants to chuse which they pleased. Dr. LUSHINGTON objected to the principle of two independent .ludicatures. Mr. M. A. TAYLOR would rejoice in any mea sure that would confel any benefit on Newfoundland: All the mischief had arisen from the last treaty with America, by which the trade from Newfoundland had been rained. The English merchants were=com pletely undersold in the foreign markets. • - _ _ Mr. HUME said no alteration should be made iii the laws of Newfoundland, till more inforglation had been afforded to the House. Air. TULK stated the trade of the colony 'to be completely ruined. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER , did not think that the treaty with America had, been at all prejudicial to the trade of Ne w fo un dl an d & Th e United Stateg conceded some of the privileges secured to them by the treaty of 1788, and this country in return allowed them to dry their fish on a rertaia part of the coast of Newfoundland. Of that the Ame, ricans had availed themselves to a very limited ex. tent. The Bill appeared to him to be well adapted to answer its end. ronGERI. Dr. LUSHINGTON stated that the object - of the Bill he intended to propose to the House was 1,0 re• peal part of the enactments on the subject of forgery; but so as neither to create or annul any capital enact ment. He should propose to attach punishment to certain offences to which no . punishment at present attached—amongst these Was the • offence of de. stroying a will ;at present to t h ust,a will into the fire would uot subject the person doing it to any pu nishment. This offence was frequent—he had him? self known it occur three times in the course of the- last six months. He concluded by moving for leave to bring in his Bill.—Leave given. OFFIMI4 ()N HALPPAY IN MI/LAND. General GASCOYNE, pursuant .to his notice. Moved for the production of a Treasury Warrant of the 6th of March, directing that Officers on .Half pay,.ancl Widows and Orphans of Officers in Ireland, receiving allowance from Government, should be paid in lush currency. Lord PALMERSTON would not oppose the pro duction of the Paper now asked for, but would sug gest the propriety of adding previous Warrants to it. The system had always been, since May, 1815, topay Officers residing in Ireland in Irish currency, and those in Eqsland in English currency. Sir ,I. NEWPORT objected to paying in Irish currency. Mr. HUME wished to have all the pay put on one footing. The doing so might make a difference of about jOO,OOOi. but the advantages to be derived from such a sy?tetyi would much exceed that sum. The motion, .aatended as proposed by Lord PAL AIF.R§TOp, was agreed to. CUSTOMS AND EXCISE REGULATION BILL. • The CH NC ELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose to move for leave to bring in a Bill to consolidate cet tain Revenue Boards in Ireland and Scotland,- with similar Board.. in England. This regulation would apply to the Customs and Excise. By such a conso lidation great convenience would arise. He *imid have but one Board of Customs and one Board . of Excise, to be held in London, and have detached Boards in Ireland and Scotland. By this arrange ment much abuse would be put an end to ; and he was convinced it would be prodactive of a great saving of expense,- as the number of Commissioners would be reduced from thirty-eight to twenty-six; but to the:* would be added six resident Commis sioners, three for Ireland, and three for Scotland. Some of the details of the Bill he had not yet deter mined on; but he considered the Bill should be im. mcdiately introduced, and the details could be con sidered in its progress. He concluded isT mr?ming for leave to . bring in a Bill to effect the. consolidatrin of the B eards of Excise and Customs in England, Scotland, and Ireland. Sir J. NEWPORT expressed the great Satisfaction he felt at this measure being proposed ; ; he was con vinced it would be attended with the grOst beneficial effects.—Leave was then given to.ltring in the Bill. MISCELLANEOUS. • • The LORD ADVOCATE obtained leave bilking - In a Bill regniate stewards' Courts Rt scotlansl.-_. r. .• • . Dr. LUSH IN °TON obtained leave to firing in a BM in fa cilitate the Examination of•Withesses in Foreign Parts' • Air. F. BUXTON moved for Copies .of Gruncgpoodence be tween the Court of Directors and the Government in India, re lative to Slavery ; also for Copies or Extrirctiet entreipendence. relative se the( Burning of Wooten th 111311 p Ady s lAS.S. r - Ordered. The l'risrws' Bill was read a tbirtf time, and To(- other Orders were then disposed of s - 1111 r joutued at (hie o * Clock. ; .17 • .?"11-11 ,~ J '. -.- .~ (1;