Star. — London, England, 1814-11-18 00:00:00

Who had hrettght fortittitt.• the , flunkies tutti INhissal conduct, by coma soh ennient, dating the° Whole of the trial, had tioew 'iidMitted'to have been exethplary, and who had been ioniplifwentedon every otcasion by the President (General Vyse),and also to his own near and dear • relative (Colonel Roberts), under whose command the regiment was admitted to have been in a state of discipline which was the admiration• of the whole army, and who for the gallantry and good conduct of the regiment under his auspices, while subject to the inspection of the Duke of Wel lington, had been raised to the rank of Lieutenant- Colonel from the station of Major. Yet they were subject to one sweeping censure, because the person they accused was a favourite (hear, hear.) The cen sure too fell unequally. The junior officers, in point •of rank, would not stiffer by the removal ; but not so with the senior Captains—they would become juniors ;n the regiments to which they were transferred.— There was i,ne officer, whom he would not name, but who was well known and much esteemed by all who knew him. who had been twice wounded in the 10th, and had been working his way up for eighteen years till he had become the senior Captain. He now was to be placed in another regiment as a junior Cap tain, there to learn, forsooth, what the duties of an Officer were (Hear, hear, hear.) Such had been the situation of these Gentlemen, that on the trial, when they supposedthat they were trying Colonel Quentin their own trial was going on, with this difference, that Colonel Quentin - lid an opportunity to defend himself, 'lnd bring on evidence to repel* definite ch#o4•sitile the accusations against them, Of which' the, Averiignorant, Were to de found only in the re. i cords of tfte Hone Guards . (Hear.)—As to the high rank oftbeise'Gentlemen he would say nothing ; the conduct towards them should not have been influen ced by diat'cottsideratitin ; but yet they should reeol- 1 leitliow gteat'an interest the country had to encou rage military ardour in persons of rank, and if there' Wal 6nej.egirnerit in the service, the punishment of which "'odd damp such an ardour, it was the 10th. Yet 'ha Meer, had been disgraced,. and several of . theta sent to regiments in the East Indies—a species of thinlitartation y ./av g A) because they failed in tiro 'chit df 'Wire ' diatget.• • He did not question the integritrof the Court. Martial, yet being in one re. spat on 'a par with them, !haring heard as well as read all the proceedings bathe tr o ll—having attend ed the Court from day to day, his judgment on the case was ieri—very different from their=. That even bY . theCourt-MUrtial COlonel Quentin had been found guilty of `having ` left the foraging party with out orders. Thii charge had been lightly treated,' hot d iyx &alewife a greater. crime than the !taiga tid al? n OPOsed the men entrusted to him 1411 - i`.il fed" which it was rather by good for- L . tdife '''' fithlitifiny tidier cause that they escaped.— OftiVi*ond •atithhird • charges, Colonel Quentin bia'kefilound not guilty, bee there was a difference,' -hiiiiiititued,' *between being found not guilty, and being heinisurably acquitted. As to the 'fourth charge, he did'ubt see why the prosecutore were allowed to go throcigh it, since it appeared that by r u possibility could the proving it to the fullest amount' have any it. On the latter part of the sentence. which ifitiented the want 4 - co-operatiOn, he could' only . . ley,' that the impression which remained in his lAA' was. that &GA wait .not a tittle of oeidereele , Icithat iffect ; and, indeed. in the sentence it 'was •wietitkinid, not as a subject of charge . against the 'MCA; but of mitigation towards V.919Pel 2 . dal thll-4k kfime excuse I . .it• his' ne ligente--( Itfille ilePprt of the * Cpert Marti s ere was clot 'One rillibli, of ',acetisaliie ' Ital . /Ist" _ e' *officers. Here then tittiaie wat . 4iff i etefir 'frothibat of the 85th, lifieli: Si been *togitet:*** * .taii•M . riit# ! Ge• tiii* . t: .40 thAt cisitlYOPCts licitigiy 4 'ilijute lit sub itantist die' charge; bju distinct repOrt from the' COOK.? • hive rillscstialicif lit the accusers. Did thlitha • - cliffeivnteltilivien . the two cases.?— The eifi 'Se ere ilt thA,Caiitittinired; because they p could n (Allen the ' bitainiss of the regiment toge- • thei t '' deb i proceeding was for the good of the • ileivlce, But here was a regiment commanded by a Cidoitei who had been plainly stated to be not St to enni - mild inrreginient—not by this or that o ffi c er, lint by b General, who, for the abilities which he had 41splaytd in the - command of the car dry, had re cently beep elevated to the Peerage.—(Hear, hear.) — This salve General bad bestot‘ed the warmest eulo. en* en the officers; as Taoist 'Zealous and active. As fa the . rizen, according to . the evidence, they all de iier!e# k gr e at dial a p9nisliiinin. There was never • II reg .. eat so dim raced i?ji breaches of discipline of rui .. id!' Flit s. Now, for thegised 'ache service , the Hues ate 'e ns ; advisers had left ilie Colonel,: whi) was not It to cOliiinand any regirsent--4n comm and tbis mu tinous set of men (Mai, hearp"—aid dispersed the able and zealous offieeti to other regiments. (Hear, hear.) ►lf it wis*their wish . to hold up an ese-sOre to the - serince, they Conid not have taint their Measures better. The General Order whiCh.had been quoted by the' Judge Advocate, Stated that be men 114 nu' tight 'to pass a j u dg ment A l t h e i r Commanding OlS cer. Yet the men of the 10th, it steried t might sit lik judgment, so they ivrpievil of a favourite. The bar. Tact!, he understood were illuminated in consequence 1 of the event of the trial, and at present, if he was rightly informed, a paper was handing about among the men to vote a • sword to Colonel Quentin. Such was the result of the Court Martial—there was a most Mutinous regiutznt with a Colonel not fit to command any men. Now out of doors, where tnen had only conatitOn sense to go by, they must needs think there Was something kept in the back ground. Military 1 then might quote this or that order, or screw out 3 1 precedent t o ease t h e i r m i n d s , b ut i n t h e country at ge there was but one feeling as to what had been' done to these Gentlemen. Then (he would say) I I sitiVay the public. There was not a trace on the pro "feeding for what crime it was that those eallaut men were punished. The cause was, he understood, in tome General Order in which Officers were rendered kunishAble for failing in charges brought as tintt their commanding officers. Mr. M. SUTTON here stated, that there was no - circler cat the subject, 'but that it had Wen the iinnse -inorial practice that Officers were responsible for the Charges they piefeneff.' M. TIERNEY proceeded. - --The crime of prefer -ring an accusation must have consisted in its being Oreferred against the commanding officer. The 10th regiment had bad the advantage of the personal corn morld of the Prince cif' Wales, Which command, some -Iwhat 10 their iacoavealcate, he had continued since Aehast became Regaitt4pitiwai talk% whir aollbe mender, that the offiseki had applied..Mtieh had said Of the letter written *en the occusitiv—he would read it that the Hauseotilght tee whether, Event if it were contrary to the' orders' olthe Reese Gaards,,ill was at all heated or inflammatory. (Me. T. trite read the first letter, in which the officers stated that it was their bounden duty to his Royal Highness, as their Colonel, to remove any impressions to their pea. judice, and hinting at reports of Colonel Q.'s military incapacity.)t—Thisarat theletter for which theetaett tlemen were sentenced to ruin, if they had no other 'resource than their pay. It was said that they had thus passed a judgment on their superior officer.— But they did not pass the censure on him —Lord Com bermere and the Duke of Wellington had investigat ed Colonel Quentin's conduct, and he had been already pronounced incompetent by the first military charac ters in the world. Had they wantonly and malici; ously stepped forward to throw the first ttone—to peach a character before unspotted ? ft was because Colonel Q. had been censured that they came forward. No course could be taken but to apply to their Colo nel, and it was to their Colonel, and not to the Crown, that they had applied, to a Colonel to whom they had so many reasons to be grateful. Yet the letter was in. tended to be suppressed,andCol. Quentin haddettiand ed it. He (Mr.T.) denied that Col. Quentin had any right to demand it. The officers were not compelabie to give up evidence vrhich. was to have been their own sonilemnatien. The Judi"! ,a4Lerate ‘ ate law i rm tourist not maintain it. The Lreeteitant:Colonel (Palmer) might have done that for which (he sup. posed) he would not be severely punishable. —pat it in the tire—(a laugh.) Was it to be supposed, that be cause they had once set pen to paper they could not revoke—that fritera 'triplet mand—and they were to have no chance of salvation in this world ? The Right Hon. Gentleman hoped the Hose would bear in mind the circumstances • under which the letter was obtained-from the officers, which letter had been so emphatically dwelt upon. This letter, it appeared, when written by the officers, *was shewn to Colonel Palmer, who deprecated the intention of presenting it to the Colonel of the Regiment, and they left it to him, to use it according to his discretion--(lfrar ) fie (Colonel Palmer) therefore communicated the, substance of it to the Regent, as Colonel of the regi ment, and immediately afterwards Colonel Quentin , applied to the officers at the mess, demanding, as he stated, by authority of the Regent, that the letter 'should be delivered up to him, out this demand was not complied with ; and upon reference to the Re. ens; it was found that no such authority had been igranted by his Royal Highness as Colonel Quentin had stated. Yet, upon a subsequent Bi:diem*, the Regent demanded this letter from *Colonel Palter, and it was accordingly surrendered to , his Royal Highness, through wham it found its way to the Horse Guards and Colonel Quentin. Thus the Regent,. naturally forgetting the distinction between hi; 'cha racter of Regent and Colonel of theregiment, gave up a letter which was not originally meant to be pre-' sented to him,' and hence it operated againtt the offi cers by whom it was subscribed. This letter, then,; was evidently not intended to convey any offeftee,' but merely transmitted to their Colonel ih order that he might, as Colonel, in the ordinary way of the sir- Slit the officers did not demand arty Court Ma They complained, but it WB,l for the Colonel to use hit own discretion. • Yet the letter containing 'this complaint, and which l was never addressed to the Horse Guardi, was stated to be the ground of the charges which produced the C ou r t Martiat.— —Hence the Officers inclined military censure, and were sent to the right about. He did not mean to . say that this letter was not originally the cause of the Court Martial, but he was prepared to maintain that a letter so obtained from these Offi.ers could not be legitimately used as a weapon against them, or made the ground of military punishment. He would in. deed maintain that no censure or punislutrut should attach to these Officers which was not warranted by the evidence adduced before the Court, independently of the production of the letter alluded to. and that the production of that letter against the Officers was an act of peculiar harshness. The Right Honour. able Gentleman, on the whole of the case, declared that he felt himself justified in supporting the motion, not from any view to question 'the integrity of the Court'Martial, but in order to question the conduct of the Horse Guards. He would support• the mil. tion because it appeared to him the only way of in. vestigating the subject to which it referred, and of ascertains 'g the merits or demerits of those unfor tunate Officers who had been treated in such an extraordinary manner. He did not hope that by the course of proceeding he recommended, the House would grant any redress to those Officers in a military point of view lc all be wished or looked for was. that the House, wlisn'the whole case was laid before it, shouldeo.act as to prevent the recurrence of similar cruelty and injustice towards ocher deserving Officers; and he would implant the House so to am. Hi had no right or inelination to esk the House tek,' decide upon ,this ;abject without ftity unglantandint it, but its acquiescence in this motion was essentially necessary to that understanding. Seeing that the Court-martial expressed no opinon against the Officers who had been so severely punished—sesiet that nothing but compliments were beard from the bran. hers ot that Court towards the conduct and tharacnw of the prOsecutars—seeing, in fact, that there was nothing in the sentence ot the Court to tall for the, punishment inflicted—to call fet the dismissal from the regiment of twenty:six Officers, many of whom bad long and eminently served their country. he 'thought it due to public justice, to the character of those sufferers, and to the character of that House, to ascertain upon what grounds such deserving Officers had been transferred to other regiments, in order, as; the sentence' of punishment prescribed, they might learn the principles of subordination and =Okay dis eipline.-1 Loud and long continued cieeriq). Mr. WELLESLEY POLE.—The speech of the Right Hon. Gentlenian who speke last was, upon the whole, much* to the same effect as that of the Hon. Officer who opened the discussion ; far the Right Hes. Gen t l e man said that he bad attended the. Crtst Mir° tial, that he bad heard the evidence, and that his COn• elusion was' different frog that-sto which. the Court- Martial had come, though he did not aria to im peach the integrie for ,thitiateliisame ef dos ann. it was, then, because thdlielanion fawn that of the Court Martial that they ortriskiai to Woo l e un is t r i dedt ippir d* lit s4!th .. _ mi * di tt li tlett!" altherdld not iitoSiun i et t lft . lice' by the Mutt tlett•-of their papers O&M have tiny military ritdriali I hieelsjeat M selling for them was to lay thetodn:i dal -fee an alteration in the Mutiny Act and 'MEI 1114 ' whole military system. 'Whereas a Court Mattink- Fetid t'! ' t i has acted ecuttaty to oar opinion, and, taw HottiGuardshavecondOchtd themselves in a theetiet' whidr:ire thitketroagr therefore the whole militate/ system, which of late years - had been brought to the high** perfection, mat be aisered,that nothing May be done at any future period, contrary se ottr opinion. —He lamented that this matter SIMI& have been brought at all into discussion in thattfielet for the case ought to be grew* and seeimett, 4ndeettr• Which could justify an appeal to dsiitilause from the judg- ' ment of any Court of Justice whatever. He had ex pected that the Honourable Officer, instead of read. ing his own speeches, would have brought forward' some serious charge against' the Cowl Martial. This,' however, he had disclaimed, sled only stated that his impression was contrary to the-canchistee drawn by the Court Martial from the evidence. This was surely nolufficient o gronnd for the production of the proceedings. Theidlnteei of Courts Martial were 'I never brought beflitiPthat'House, e*cept where one of their aern.Meatheetreatinvolved, or where some Hitteel eaniatitiatidit tats •supposed to have go verned .the ' up, it being doubtful whether Ih i sAtter oat the guilt person, and not rile . .r litidlifil' Ttici - drscipline ' could hot be. itehtilteritends than those of the Crown ; and he.saw no reason -why the present case should be take' out of the ordinary channel, It had been stated in the 'general order, that Colonel Quentin had not that co-operating on the part of the other officers of the regintent to which he was entitled ; and this clearly-appeared to be the case, even from what hid been said brthe Honourable Officer himself. It had been argued, that- the precedent produced by his Right Hon. Friend-near hint did not apply. It did not esnetly apply, because there the officers were dis missed,- and here they were-only removed into other regiments. The Com t had not censured the motives of the- offiters.‘ -They were fair and honourable, though mistaken ; and, therefore, the officers were only removed : whereas in the instance of the 85th regiment they were dismissed. The precedent was not exactly in point, but the analogy was complete. It mattered not is what manner the proceedings ore. gitsated ; but in .point. of fact. the first use made by Clime! Palmer of the letter was to tell Col. Quentin that h: had it, and to offer to skew it him. Colonel Quentin said,. a I will have nothing to do with k— 'take it to-the 'Prince—bring forward your charges." He would ask, %whether at was possible for Cannel Queatin AEI this to-avoid calling [or a Court-Mar. tial-i 'These 28 men of rank, fashion, figure, sliitinc. item,' and Golikemvs what all, had come for war,' :with this' statement atainst him, and he was undta the necessity of callin for a Court-Martial, or sub mitting to Ile disgraced for ever. He might have sad t" I shall atm an end tolltis at once, and retire ;" but he would have been disgraced if he had done so. He 'had no 'choice, but either to call fora Court-martial, or to go out in disgrace. Nothing could justify such ,tntigoli unless the whole could be substantiated.— lip , . to; conto a meet e urge of cowardice. That, then, was - the meaning of the first letter, and Colonel Quentin would have been ,unfit -to associeate with officers and gentlemen if he had not demanded a Court M art i a l. Th e Ri g h t ' , Hon. Gentleman had said that these officers had not been punished for charges which had been preferred by the Duke of Wellington and Lord Combermere— but they were not punished for these charges, but for having preferred other charges whiCh they could not prove. The Matters charged by the Duke of Wel lington and Lord Combermere had been before de .cided upon—and the officers composing the Court Martial, with that knowledge and experience which beleoged to deem, bad said that they had nothing to do "nth them charges. The other charges had not been proved; and it was on that ground that the officers had been removed. Then the Right Hon. Gentle man talked Of fivourit:sm, and the danger of prefer -fiat charges against a favourite, and so forth—but whet was the foundation of this accusation of itYot3 have dismissed these' hen of rank, And fashion, and figure, and ioforth—(aierie), and you here -maimed onl y a parcel of mutinous raskals, and this inefficient officer." But he said dratliere wage- conspiraelagainst this old officer-o(lfeer) ;-,he did not mean to use the word in any invideous stew. Helsad stouts reasons to speak faveurablehf these officers, as well as the Right Hon. GentleMitritlentie of then were connections of his, and he lode very greet mad for them; but he Must do his public duty notwithstanding, aid he mast repeat, that this old and deseritng officer was brought to trial by a conspiracy among the other officers—but be was ac quitted of thi mum charges. Mick+ three eireum- , static% it must be admitted sin all-kinds that the paitis could nut *undone together. Colonel Qnen-, Oa, by a conspiracy among the officers of his mei- Meet, had been brought to trial, and acquitted of the Main charges; and the Crown had only to decide ',blether the officers or he ought to be removed t and it hid been determined to remove the officers. Then *is sheered that neither rank, distinction, character, nee emdit, were admitted to weigh in the scale against substantial justice. - These men of rank and fashion had not bees turned adrift, but removed ; anti this old meritorious officer, without connections 'in this ' country, had been retained. If the object had been to sorry favour with the great, a very different mode of proceeding would have been adopted, and as m Englishman, he was glad that such a proof of Wed bona and impartiality had been green, •Andlthat ends young gentlemen had been taught, that, inexpe. limed as they must be, they ought not to pronounce feebly an the conduct of their Commanding Officer. He raoliretad that a relation of his, speaking of Ames sent out soon after the s itestafilishme of siss • 'College. once 'observed of them, p cannot mow guard, and yet would neeneinvro Dart sash.* This arcpsoins proved. dial* farms was to to the highest any me,. Heel to the lowest, but that alt were to be treafed . acted: Ulm sum roles of Military dileffolift Obit it whether the pelity.Wwt Igaills4 Mat hit nothisig, *bit all wan aiLimlitthmknillak that sus iponest Amur was wb man of MON *Melt Ilfalt t• .61W tiotqlht, L t a bw tettei at. &Vett Sift firlhearitaiifflit as to fivotiiitfrali If an 114-dapeadolupcai that, it ought to be recollectd. the - . ltight Hon. Dendenlan bad these 28 men of ati ad d &edam, while he had only one old but med. *inn* tidier, Who was indeed a favourite, (be ar ) I glutarisy vial Istrif favouritel Por bts merit and ser yaks:lad for *rhos brought this very regiment ' hlO state of discipline (hear, hear) ; —he might biinistahn, but so he bad heard; and if it was so, he deserved to be a faiourite. Oa all these grounds, .he mast oppose the motion, conceiving it to be most in jurious to the discipline of the army. bfr,,VYSE spoke shortly in defence of the decision of the Court Martial, of which his lionottrahle rela tive had been President, and who, in the aoxiotas duty which he had to perform, had been guided by no private or partial motives. Mr. BRAND adverted to a precedent of the House of Commons interfering with the sentence of a Court Mirtial. It took place in the year 1745, under t h e adminharation of Mi. Pelham, when the House de clared the sentence of a Court Martial, partial, illegal, and unjust. He thought the appeal Made by the Judge. Advocate to the . general order of Sir James • Craig, fair enough ; but at did not apply to the case of Colonel Palmer, who bad only obeyed the orders of the Prince Regent as Colonel of the regiment, in bringidg forward those charge:which the °titer Officers had aigned,ancl who would not sacrifice those who had fought aid bled by hi t s si t ie. That honourable Officer, in performiurthis dotTi was-sea liablieo ant at.tw.o-- . servaticms that had bfen made on the other Officers, and yet he had been nicluded in the same censure. — He (Mr. Brand) ahotild abstain from.giving any opi. nion of the sentence uf. the Court Menial ; but the ; conclusiuo, or rather the sentence of the Horse-guardo.l was quite another matter, and appeared to him arbi ! trary and unfounded. He, therefore, wanted to see the minutes of the Court artial before the House, in order to determine from 'what the H.ftse-gu'ards had drawn a conclusion so materially affecting a num ber of most gallarit.oßcOrs. i. He reprobated the term . conspiracy, which 4 Rishl Han. Gentleman had_ thought proper to apply to their conduct. It could ' not have proceeded from malignity, but from - a sense of what they owed to the character of their ragiment for they must have been aware that the suspension of the Act of Settlement expired in June next, when Colonel Quentin, as being a foreigner,could no longer remain at their head. Act was framed by our ancestors in the time of William 111. to prevent an inundation of Dutch officers, and he trusted it would . be still maintained in force. Mr. Serjeant BEST contended, th ►t the list of officers discharged sufficiently rebutted the charge of tavou►itism. Tho Prince Regent, when he issued the order in question, must have felt that he sacrificed much of private feeling in the discharge of his duty. The learned Serjeant conceiv:d it a clear principle of military law, th►t, when an officer broaglit a charge affecting the life and honour of 11;s superior, and failed in the proof, lie should be discharged the set vice, or transferred to another regiment. It was quite manifest that the officers of the 10th. having written the letter which they did, became in fact the accusers of Colo. net Quentin, and weredetermined, either directly or their ;Wet oflisgracinghim, _ Jetted torhe mildest sentence which could he Inflict ed under all the circumstances. How could the dis cipline of the army go on, if this sp: c:es of combina tion or conspiracy went with impunity The interfe- • rence of the House it; 1745, aliuJed to by an Hon. Member, when the Cotntnons pronounced a military sentessce, partial, unjust, and illegal, bore no analogy to the pretest case, for no one had attempted to blame the court-martial on Colonel Quentin. He denied that this Howe was any court of appeal from the de cisions of either civil or military courts. It would de stroy the discipline of the army, if persons dissatisfied with sentences had the mean; of obtaining their re. visal in that House, which could only interfere where there was evidence of corruption in the conduce of the Court-martial. Mr. BENSON paid a warm compliment to the gallantry of the officers of the 10th. He thought, however, they had been properly remind e d th at cou . rage did not form the only requisite of a soldier, but that subordinatieshwas equally necessary. 'fru very consideration of tlats,pristate tamenttence of these of. &cell would afford 9ae of the most striking lessons to' the army. Sir C. Bt,TRULL eontended on thecmtrary, that the sentence oa these -offseere-was one of the harshest measure% ever wits esetl_ .egalust men who had so highly diatinguisbetl.themselves by their gallantry in the field. There was no proOf that they had net most zealously cooperated for the beoefit of the service. - Mr. P. MOORE supported the motion, and con. tended that that House was a Court of Appeal (Lad trio of grortim.) He would still assert, in Op position to what had fallen from the Learned Serjeant, that there was no other Court of Appeal but that House, . from the decisions of Civil or Military Courts. , Colonel PALMER shortly replied. The officert, he said, had only done their duty; and the que.tion before the House was one of the highest importance, not only to the essential interests of the army, but to those of the country at large. The statement of the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Tierney) with respect to the letter, was perfectly correct.— He (Colonel Palmer) certainly did lay that letter be. fore his Royal Highness the Prince Regent, but with out the slightest idea of i-s being made use of to the injury of the Officers. He did not, indeed, imaqiue it grovid be used at all. He still retained his opinion that the sentence of the Court-Martial was not justi. fled by the evidence adduced, as, in point of fact, it acquitted Col. Quentin, and criminated the Officers. Sir C. ,BURRELL explained. The House then divided—For the Motion 37-e. Against it 144—Majority The following Gentlemen voted in iM Minority, as din Motion of Colonel gewma s. • • cs4:Matbsid. b. ; • s. PalisstssAki. Psesseby, G. lionise. p., s ::.1 ,Sliskisrear 14 , 1 thloa • 4... • lir •• ) *am P. MOON Seff4l, We .• • lb o' Sesdsatose, R. P. liversk R. Ali *y*o. • t W. 011.11110. ' • .4111114 OS. $ 1011111 0. 3 %. • 'Hos X ; . T. owelse, t w CONN C. J 1 " 111 f . " 5 " 1 1 ;A V.