Star. — London, England, 1810-05-08 00:00:00

!PPP .e4RLIAMENTARr PROCEBDING.T. HOUSE OF LORDS, MAY 7. The Irish Coroner's Bill eras read the third time and passed. Sir SAMUEL ROMILLT, Mr. DICRICNION Mr; D. GIDDY, Si, nan Corraett, and other Members frost; the House of cent- Ittons, brought up the Privately Steabog Bill, and several private Bilk which were lad" tiiicartle table, aid afterwards* read tht: rst time. Mr. Caserar.r.r., front the Transport-office, presented papers at the Bar, containing aft account of the tonnage and expence of: ships ernployed.fn the Transport !orriAe in the Baltic, in 1807. Ordered to lie on Oise table. • ' " The Margot:of LANSDOWNE rose and gave notice of his Intendesl motion reszettin; sjMniall Affairs, for that ¢a7 #lt. i Wit. • , CRUELTY TO t RUTE ANIMALS. . • Upon the Order . of Ale pay being read, " Lard ERSKINE rose for the purpose of moving, l that the Bill which he had introduced for preventing criielt to the brute creation, b i read a second time.' Thus II was almost the same with . that which re f teive ''their Lordships' . concurrence , duting the last Session of Parliament. The only alteration he had made was, the omission of one Word, and the' inser tion of a new clause. In the former, persons were mane a)tiena l? li to punishment who should " mali ciously, ' and with wanton cruelty, cut, wound, I maim, beat, or otherwise abuse," but in the Bill be fMe theit, he had considered it expedient to omit the Word " beat." The clause to which he had alluded,' , made it rectitisite that the indictment should charge the offence to have been committed " maliciously,and with wanton cruelty." This might, or might not re main Or receive alteration in one of its future stages. Be 11a, last year, particularly, stated all those rea sons which urged him to adopt the principle of this Bill, and bring it forward in the shape of a law.— Their Lordships had, at that time, paid great atten tion to all which he had said on the subject, and they should new receive a raluable consideration; for he Would not trouble them with a repetition of those ar guments by which he had supported the principle.— 1 1 The Bill had, last Session, received the unanimous concurrence of that House ; but it was not in conse quence of that unanimity alone he again sdbmitted this measure to the consideration of Parliament ; for, although the House of Commons had dealt differently with the Bill, yet, he had a right to say, the majority were in its favour, as appeared upon its being read a second time. Certainly it had been opposed by great ability and eloquence, on the part of those who dif fered from him in sentiment, and he was willing to treat that opposition with respect ; for, GOD forbid that any man; maintaining warmly his own opinion, should not perinit others to enjoy the indisputable right of maintaining theirs. The Noble Lord conclu deal)? moving " That the Bill be read the second time.". Lord ELLENBOROUGH was satisfied, that whatever shade ot difference existed between him and his Noble and Learned Friend, as to the expediency of the means, he most cordially concurred with him in the object of the Bill, that of preventing the wan ton exercise of cruelty towards the brute creation. It occurred to him, that the manner in. which that part of the Zll was worded. where it stated the offence to be the'" maliciously, and with wanton cruelty, cut ting, wounding, maiming, and otherwise abusing." was likely to•he'attendod with injurious effects. The •vti)rd§ 44 otherwkse abusing," admitted of that lati tude, which might, is the administration of law, pro dikce greater cruelty to the human species than that which was practised upon brute animals. Excepting thee Words, which would certainly incur his opposi tion, he most readily concurred in the principle and object of the Bill. Lord ERSKINE conceived the words alluded to by his Noble and Learned Friend,• would not be at. tended with the evils he apprehended. Their being necessarily connected with those words precedent, " maliciously and with wanton cruelty," would, in his opinion, prevent any mischievous effect. But if, in the course of the future progress of the Bill, their Lordshi should entertain a different - lie Z' • • storm, without citaie,tir octmass, or ruddy • • the Constitution, of.the principles of Irj?iCh or them. Thy did iumove or meet • , ' first act, their entrance into power, was a - • • ... •—nothing to.pecity, .2. ing conc iliat e ` Danger had likewise iricreased•frowi ano. • 0110 of the public. 4lit o ne' the'rstrainollremw • , er ; and evien our Parliamentary Censtitu of Governrnentheyondits pitch, and at ' Off •pm become the object of attack: His Loidship exposed the ,fmme of the Constitution to the gat* must now contend-for ehe necessity of mairitaining danger. They exhibited by their Councils and you the privileges of Parliament. They had been asstun duct apinwse wei)mess entlraibnes . s,ofi ed in the early periods of the Smarts for the support and violence. In every public act, they on y tended of the independence of• the Parliament and of the . farther to offend and to disgust Cie public mind. No privileges of the people themselves. They had been Man could lOok uPOn'tli s e state of our airairi — under maintained and acted upon ever since, and icul be. their mismanagement, without participating in the come part of the law 4a usage of Parliament. Our anxieties and fears, and indignation which he felt rights and•liberties were not secure - without them.— on the subject. While he saw the necesaitY for Par- He concurred most cordially with what had been so lianient's taking the stihjeat into their most serious ably said by. bu Noble Friend : he was not one who consideration, he must say, unless 'Parliament were would ially round the Administration, but he would fully immessed with a deep sense of the duties they P rally found our Parliamentary Constitution. To our were tie urgently called apon to perform, he felt little . parliament, our country owed its liberty, its great hope or confidence' from any effort that he could • ness, its prosperity, and its happiness. No delusion make, even though „supported by the.powerful aid of could be more gross and fatal to the public, than to his Noble Friend sitting by him (4=l Grenville), suppose that there was any other quarter to which to whose integrity, talents, and 'wisdom, as well as they could look for any amendment in the present to those of other Noble Persons, who entertained sir state of public affairs, for maintaining their best pillar public principles and views, for saving the rights and interests, or for any beneficial improve. country frOm its dangers,. and procuring for it future ments in future. It became the indispensable duty' benefits, the nation must look up. But while he con- of the House to take some measures suited to the sidered Ministers as the cause of so many calamities, danger of the times, and he fully approved of the he never could bring his mind to be friendly to any I mode proposed by his Noble Friend, by an humble system, the object or oonsequences of which was to and suitable Address to his Majesty. delude the public mind, taking off their attention from Lord ERSKINE deeply lamented the danger to the true interests and the real dangers of the country, which the country was exposed, which he attributed and assuming the shape, not of complaint against, I to the misconduct and total unfitness of Administra and a desire of redress from, specific evils, but of a ! tion to conduct its affairs. He joined with his Noble systematic opposition to • the frame and essential Friends in their opinions on the necessity of support privileges of the Parliamentary Constitution, from I ing the Constitution of the country, which he too which we had derived such benefit and happiness.— thought the best that bad ever been framed for the He hoped, that at the present crisis, any such ap- benefit of mankind, or, perhaps, that ever would be pearances were only imputable to error and mistake, formed in this world. He was also fully impressed and had no foundation in any disposition to under- with the great benefits resulting to the country from mine or impair the Constitution, which was the best the Parliament as it exists, notwithstanding any of security of the Throne, and of the rights and liberties the defects that might have affected it in a course of of the people. The privileges of Parliament he con- years and ages. There were no benefits that we en ceived to be absolutely essential to its independence, joyed which we could not ascribe to the independent to its existence ;or else, in all the experience he had existence of' Parliament. Even the common law of been able to acquire in Parliament—in all that he had the land would not have come down to us, as we now heard or seen, or read upon the subject, he had been enjoy it, had it not been favoured and fostered by the entirely wrong. The opposition now raised was hos- protecting hand of Parliament. The privileges of tile to the - whole of the privileges of Parliament Parliament were essential, unquesi :nably, to its in privileg, es assumed originally for the sake of the in- dependence and dignity : he would defend the whole dependence of Parliament, and of the liberties of the Parliamentary Constitution of the Country, King, subjects of the nation. Sure he was, that all the Lords, and Commons. He had the highest pos great, and wise, and experienced public men whom sible respect for his Noble Friends near him; with he had known, under whatever political description whose views of the Constitution and policy of ;his they might be classed, entertained that opinion, that nation he generally agreed ; and he was sure that it was essential to maintain those privileges of Par- they and he had but one and the same object in liament which had been su long Skted upon, sanction-, view. They equally loved the Constitution, and ed, and acknowledged. Convinced sincerely that the respected the rights of the subject and the laws of the privileges of Parliament were so necessary in a con- land ; but he should be unworthy of entertaining si stitutional view of the subject, he was equally ready milar views with them, and sharing their confidence to meet the just and constitutional claims of the pen. and friendship, if he did not express his opinion ple of this country, which could in no other place but I where there were shades of difference in the senti. in Parliament be justly and advantageously consider- ments they held. The matter which had recently' ed or attended to. The sentiments he entertained ! occurred naturally interested all men's minds. For he had no difficulty in declaring. The public was ! his part, while he was alive, he must ever re , ain the anxiously solicitous for reforms ; and he thought there same man. A very great and important question were reforms which, more especially after what had was now raised, and it was in the course of being passed, they had a just right to claim and to demand. carried before the regular tribunals of the land; They had a right, in the first place, to demand all there to undergo that solemn and impartial trial and useful and practicable reforms in - the management decision, which it was the honour and pride of those and expenditure of the public revenues, the responsi- Courts to give to all questions before them. His bility of the public agents, and all that was connec- Noble and Learned Friend on his left hand (Lord ted with a due regard and attention to economy in Ellenborough), would, in the exercise of his judicial every branch of public affairs. They had also a functions, have that great cause brought before him,' right to ask for a reform of those evils which, in the where his great abilities would also be assisted by the course of time, had crept into the frame of the Go. learning and talents of the Judges. Let the case go , vernment ; and also for a reform (founded upon the there—let the acknowledged authority of the Courts principles, and kept within the form, and pale, and be appealed to—let their decision be made, and he object of the Constitution) of those evils which had was confident that their decision would be satisfac crept into the composition of Parliament itse/fi He tory to the people of this country, who.fustly reposed was sure that the people would not be misled and de- confidence in the wisdom and integrity of the Tribe. lulled into the fallacious idea of seeking for redress mils. This was a peculiar case. Let their Lord otherwise than by the forms of that Constitution ships look at the opinion given by a great Law Ofli which had, been the parent and support of their ,cer, the King's Attorney General. That opinion _ id liberties, and all the benefits and happiness stated that a warrant of the nature in question had „Ts . , opinion, 1 rights ani ..apps,. _ should feel himself disposed to concur in the alteration. they enjoyed ; and which, whatever grounds of ob. never been executed in the manner which, on the late ' The Billams then read a second time, and ordered jection might be made to particular evils and abuses, occasion, was resorted to. There was thus no leaal to be committed to-morrow. had been, and still was, the best Constitution that opinion to be had, to direct the proceedings of ills PRESENT STATE OF THE COUNTRY. ' 'the world had vet seen, for every good and practi- Serjeant at Arms upon the subject. But what was Earl GREY rose and said, that when he turned cable.purpose. He never was mese deeply impressed then the mode adopted ? Why, to enforce the privi his mind to the consideration of the present state of with any subject, than he was . with the present gene. l oges and support the dignity of the Parliament, the this country, which every thinking man must, at this ral situation of the country in all its most 'important House of Commons went, where ? To the King's moment, be compelled to do with the greatest seri- relations ; and he was convinced that it was his duty Privy Council for directions ; and they received the Gustiest and anxiety ; whether he looked at our.situa- to move an Address.to his Majesty expressive of the aid of a military force! The force of laws was ac tion as connected with foreign affairs, or the manage- opinions entertained by himself and those with whom quired in some cases by a long and uninterrupted anent of our domestic concerns ; whether he looked he had the honour and happiness to be politically usage ; but he must say generally this, that if there at the conduct and events of, the war in which we connected, stating the causes, which, in their judg- should be but one written law, one statute existing con were engaged, or at the measures pursued at borne ; ments, had produced this alarming crisis, and humbly trary to the usage, no such usage could avail against in whatever light he, encieavoured to view our situa- •recommending to, his Majesty such measures as the it. The laws of the land, which were part of the in tion, either as to the con d u ct of C e i ern me n t, or the honour of the Crown and the security and happiness estimable Constitution of this country, could admit of state of the, public mind, he. Must confess that the of the country imperiously demanded. As these no usage, custom, or. authority against their express feelings by whicli he was actuated were any other were subjects of great importance, that required the . provisipns. For his own part, be declared literally than those of joy, or cheerfulness, or hope. The almost immediate attention of their Lordships, he that he would sooner die than consent to the con. claims -that such considerations had upon their Lord. should conclude by giving notice of his motion for fining or punishing of any man, contrary to the force ships' attention, and that of every public man in the .such an Address to be moved by him on that day and meaning of the written law of the land. He country, were irresistible ; and be felt it to be Ins I three weeks. had thought much, in the• course of a long profess liciunden duty to take this public notice' of them in f The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, that satisfied in sional life, on subjects like the present; and .he lie. :.s .. their Lordships' House -of Parliament. Our situation JJJ seeing that the Noble Earl perceived the situation of : lieved, without vanity or presumption, he understood' was, indeed, such as must make it desirable to give 1 the country, and the necessity of upholding the psi- ; them fully as well as any of the Noble Lords then support to the Government and Constitution of the 1 vileges and dignity of Parliament, notwithstanding I in his hearing, however high his opinion might be Country, which were at present placed in a situation the severity of the observations which he had made 1 of their integrity, their talents, and their learning. of singular danger. (Near.) But it was far from his ion the conduct of his Majesty's Ministers (a severity ! Let the question then go to the Courts, and there ' intention to add lo the evils of the country by rallying which he was bold to say was totally unmerited by !be pronounced upon ; and the public, lie repeated round, as it was called, or joining with the present them)he should thankfully receive the assistance of , it, would be satisfied. Nobcdy could tell what might .Administration, which was so mainly the cause of I t h at , Noble Earl in the support of those privileges I be the opinion of the Judges, in Westminster Hall. our. existing' dangers. ' Notwithstanding that report . which were necessary. to the well-being and security ; The claims of *the House of Commons might be .. had beep pretty. generally, he hoped not maliciously lof the Constitution. It wae, by no fault that could 1 cogarnied. and the manner. of. executing the war circulated, he took. that opportunity to state tb the 1 with justice be imputed to Administration, that - sub- rant sanctioned; butif otherwise, would the House of 45k h ; IiOUSt, and the public, thatjt was very far from any jects of recent notoriety-had occurred, and which every . Commons be prepared, did - they suppose, to act the 3 intention entertained by him. On the contrary, he man - must regret. (Hear.) But at the proper time . same with his Noble Friend; my .Lord Ellenborongli, felt it to be his duty.to arraign and to expose their 1 when-this question,eatne before them, if it was inten- as they bad thought fit to do -with another Judge, gross mismanagement,, and repeated and dangerous 1 ded to blame Ministers, he should be ready, and he Chief Justice Pemberton ? He remembered a trial for .misconduct, to Parliament and to the nation. To , did then put in hii claim to defend their . conduct to treason, in which he had himself broadly and boldly 'Lilly round them entered not into his mind ; but he the satisfaction- of the- House. and the country,-- denied the principles upon which other eminent law.. airOuld rallyjouud the Parliament and the Coustitu- (Hear.) -' As sufficient time would elapse previous to - yers endeavoured to make out the charge of corn. tion. (Hear.) From the commencement of their that discussion, he hoped the Noble Earl would give . passing and imagining the death di the King, On power, the King's present Ministers had continued to him an idea oE the objects QC his Address. ' that occasion he had been told of precedent and opi. . ~.‘ act worse and worse. They lived merely on a - mi- Lord GRENVILLE thought, that the intelligible I Ilion, and had heard the -great name of Judge Hale „,,. ' -arable set of shifts and expedients, calculated only an d Ole statement of his Noble. Friend must convey produced as an authority to which he ought to defer. -I. 4 4, 4 2tnanseetor elude the passing events ofthe hour; but to ailinisters . a pretty correct idea of the object of the i But he then had declared that he cared nothing for. tawny without plan er design, or any settled system . Adds which he intended - to propose. The country ; the opinion of JudgiaHide. He had. the *kitten law becating their situations, and tending to the service saw, indeed, its difficulties daily increasing. Our in his hand, and.weuld abide by that aloneagainst al ' • and benefit of the Crowa, or of the country at large.. dangeri were accumulating upon us, andsurround..! other authority. He should care no' more. for In After bringing themselvesandthe State by their s nag : ing us , from the inereeting pressure. of an expends- Lord Kale titan . foe n.• great fly on the window, al • misconduct into ilia greatest difficulties and • turf!, and more, especially from the imbecility,. rash, : Lord Hale's authority. was against the existing la* weakly, and rashly thought mess , an d f o lly of the King's Ministers, who, spewed of the land, even though backed by all the rest of the .r all the perils of the the greatest .political incapacity, and absolute igno• Judges ! Be was sorry to entertain any difference of /opinion ffom his Noble Friends, w h o had the woe great objects at heart with himself, and whom he va. lued so highly, that he thought them the pe rsons in whom he would confide, as the Statesmen to wh oru the affairs of this realm should be entrusted. of t h e principles and conduct of the present Administrate„ n , ,be thought direitly the reverse.. _ - - g o ac hAed by, expressing his approbation dress to the 'fbroney—The Lords to be summoned for that day three JiOU4 op commolcs. Tkli being thesiast da . r . as•fiTed by the receiviag the-Reports of Coniroittars upon private , was oceppied)l) that bet:knots iiiiwear six olds& Two Petitions were offered, die one by by General Lori., against the Rotheridtkp ' Bill, both of which were rejected, mom SPLACEIL, on the ground of their being Anent of the Report of the Bill; and that faired, it would be high loju-sece to the parties ' Bill to receive these Petitions, and thereby anexpectedimpedinaept In choir way, just Sir SAMUEL ROMII.LY postponed motion convicts. which stood for this day, to Wednesday - Mr. WHITBREAD called the attention of tts, the Exchequer to the Surphis of Funded which the Right Honourable Gentleman attention. TUX KING'S Lrrun T• FSRDIN. Mr. WHITBREAD said, that having r,:ti public papers, puiporting to be written to King_Ferdinadd VII. he bogged leave Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, via. Whether upon as a document which had any pretensions anthekticity ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER very low tone; but we understood him to decline girulg ewer, on the ground that it might be prejudicial service. Mr. WHITBREAD said, he could that had been so profusely published, and those of this country, and which all the world, could in any respect prove to the public service. CAPTAIN FOSKETT Mr. LITTLETON gave notice, that move fur the production of all the documents Advocate-General respecting the case of s laugh.) He begged to correct the mistake, then gave notice, that on Thursday sea* resolution of censure upon the conduct Chief, for not having conformed in this of the Articles of War ; and also an that he would be graciously pleased to Chief to report to him upon that case. Stn FRANCIS BURDETeS Noncrs The SPEAKER rose, and said, that before they proceeded day which was immediately to felt it to be his duty to call their transactions of high importance ; alluded to himselt, and in which intimatesy concetned. It would previous to the late recess, he : from Sir Francis . Burdett, which municated to the House, that Burdett's) intention to bring , (the Speaker) for the eiecutton . issued upon that occasion, pursuant and Order of the House. During ' ceived a second notice to the a he supposed, from some mista ke first. He wished to remind the : was now very near its commencen., tainly highly important and necessary take the subject into immediate determine as to the proceedings thereon. The CHANCELLOR of said, he had not made up hir._ he thought it deserved the maturest therefore he would propose that should be appointed to search .port their opinion thereon. Mr. WH ITBREAD said, put, he hoped the Right Honourable would condescend to inform the House' on which he proposed to move Th.: CHANCELLOR of , said, litthought the House would tering upon a subject of that withe notices;and be calmness the Speaker had called their attention Lag taken them up th more well as with more serious and before a Committee, than it House, it was on that account to recommend its being taken that way. He concluded by " That a Select Committee be appointed ceedings bad, and to be had, with reference ' Mr. ADAM had no objection ' search fos..precedents, and to by no means agree to their reporting that would be to delegate the in a mattes of privilege to he considered the question,the . mure that the House ought to maintain vileges. The facts might be found —but the opinion on those facts the House.. He hoped it would . tion, that the Committee should day. • After a few words from Aums, in explanation, The CHANCELLOR of amended his motion, which then " That a Select Committee be appointed ceedings had, and to be had, in reference • state such facts as they may think necessary, with their opinions thereon." • Mr. WHITBREAD expressed that the House shotild then be' ment in which it stood. The had. been delivered to the Speaker and he immediately communicated The Right Honourable Gentleman known the importance of the necessary it was that proper respecting it; yet he had, it ter unworthy his notice ; he recess to pass over without then came and told the House his mint! ; and when the term opening, he then comes and proposes . 'sider on what was to be done. 'Commons chose thus to be led - .they by the Right Honourable *d he did not .understand the to the House to propose a Committee :of his difficulties - and to cover not in his power to pre ent for his trn.past i he :Wild vote against anti Geneor Qi UM %..aiiveut ■ After bringing themselves I gross misconduct into the dangers, they vainly, wea &wakes able to enco*l etipl,enarbiladtt.i.:wek--,per:ehf, an Ad. rithitl!tatelenh,::terernrenelest Sta tesmen wi es bl en his t m A rmo. d ß M tyl i ow n nc istr a ul t i the I Who bad th he e hd e 0 0 N r W der e S,: k o s : the H re : atoito on private bills, t h e Cr els o'clock, ' "Ao to, u enigil e llVL2 r n ten eveb boo tst e d iri°t f e d i s .s nia ci d i l iz t icon : Apt ar E " ; r. l t il i th x :et lativt ehc : ott e l, "riut rurd w t in e ns h q i eeg e u prenct i , h s h i llia c ir t n . n ...C i a lr L ft ir— ' ll o tl i .;'. : (paur i l airt t ' . l.u r d son. th e eutlitAtins flack he factor 0 ; i n an prurnis.:d to pay eVC:r FEREIN4NO Ins ta:d a Utter all tEe en by hie Mileseft and se ire to ask a guitar s of Whether it w as to be cooked :XCHEQUER spoke in to to decline givi ng a ny a ,". b e prejudicial to the pab: l 1 not cencrite how a k i met thereby he k o ,; o :' LETT. that Ist should to.en ettc locomen:a in she Dik e 0( 1 oee j a t a thisc se' n ni ghtat i d c Addres s r ms C• t e a s h: • oeh s ti n a nthogea Co mmand er . 1 t h e u° I s rS e t 'a to direct t h e c 0rnm , 2 , 41 • to. 'ICES TO THE SPEAxEs. Ho icd to the business of . to come before them, , teir attention to certa ace, which particular; ich the House was m. sold be recollected, th to had received a not% Rich he had then cc , It it was his (Sir Fran: an action against h', ion of the warrant he h trsuant to the Rescluti , ing the recess, he had same purport, nisi •ake or irregularity 410 he House that the Te encement, and it was c ecessary that they shoo lige consideration, a ngs ha& and to be if the EXCHEQUE ;mind on the subjec;,b maturest censidtratioa hat a Select Comm.'. la for precedents, and it before the motion w Honourable Gen tlenra the House of the grain . . ye for suit a Committ of the EXCHEQU would never think of t importance the morn attention to it by remit d as such a subject mit, Ines: and moderation, id uninterrupted attenti could be before the who tint that he had venter ken into consideration y moving, appointed to consider the &mice to the said ction to a Committee state facts ; but he co. reporting their opinion, se functions of the Hon - Committee. The m. he' more he was convinc taintajn and assert its p /mild by the Committ facts must be formed Mild be added to the hould report on a certi n the &T AXES and of the EXCHEQU • then stood thus : appointed to consider the eference to the said Notice, necessary, and to report the . Tressed his as tonish • be found in the predi• ['he first of -these n oti. Speaker some weeks a , anicated it to the Hcu mtleman must then ba se subject, and how v. • measures should be tai : seemed, treated it as ' ' le had suffered the w t thinking about it, use he had not made . :erm was on the me point ° I proposes a Comtee done. if the House • led from one Step ble Gentleman who she • be Wainer.% and then c committee to help him vrr his negligence, it them fronts) doing ; vote ageinii the ' "