Star. — London, England, 1821-05-24 00:00:00

away of human life, was not only bound to shew the 1 expediency, but the absolute justice and necessity of the punishment. The House ought to know, that, under the eye of the Police, haunts of robbers were permitted to exist, for the absurd purpose of allow ing the officers where to look for offenders. He went to a den of this kind, where there were between 30 and 40 boys, who avowed their occupation, and in a few months after, no less than four boys were exe tilted out of that very den. Mr. NOLAN thought the House should consider bow far it would be proper to adopt the pre3eut Bill. Whether the present Police were effective or not, was a question which would come before the House better, and more conveniently, when the Report of the Pri sons Committee came under the consideration of the House. With respect to the present Bill, he could not distinguish why the punishment of death should be attached to the forgery of a one pound note, whilst 'other forgeries were to have a punishment of so much lighter nature attached to them. Where was the com parison, he would ask, between such a forgery, and the to, gery of a will, which reduced an innocent family to beggary ?—or the forgery of an arsonity deed, which perhaps deprived an industrions indivi dual of the hard earnings of his youth, the whole pro vision which he had made for the exigencies of his old age? As to the instance of the youth who went home and committed a forgery, immediately after seeing an execution, insanity was an excuse for any act, however extravagant ; and surely nothing but insanity could have operated on that unfortunate in dividual, who, immediately after witnessing the heavy penalty which the crime entailed upon those who were guilty of it, went home, and, braving the pe nalty, committed the offence—(Hear, hear).—He contended, that the privilege of the Jury to recom mend to mercy, and the invariable attention paid by the Crown to such recommendation, relieved Juries from all difficulties on the subject of their consciences, and ope•ated to temper the severity of the law. Mr. WYNN was in favour of the Bill. It was not sufficient tor any Gentleman to say, that he did not believe clime would be diminished by the proposed alteialion. If there wis any one who doubted that capital punishment was absolutely necessary in this case, it should be abolished. 1k defended the recom mendation that the forgery of Baak of England notes should be punished with death in the first instance, on the ground that they were a property differing from all other I.roperty. Parliament had made these notes a legal tene.er, and by law the Public were obliged to take them. Under these circumstances, Parliarnew were hound to protect the Public, and to place Bank of England notes on the same footing as the coin of the realm, which it was death to imitate. Mr. COURTENAY •Asas in favour of the Bill going through the f resent stage. He believed, in giving such a vote, he should go with public opinion. He defended the conduct of the Committee appointed to isqui:e into the present state of the Criminal Code. That Committee had been censured for not calling the Judges before them, and examining those Learned Persons ; but he must confess, *.at it appeared to him as objectionable to call before them those Learned Persons, whose duty it was to dispense the laws, as to ask them their opinion of those laws. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY agreed that it must be the wish of every humane man, in these enlightened days, to reduce, as far as possibly we could, the punishment of death for offences; and he thought the House had shewn its desire to do so ; but he trusted the House would not be lcd aside by its philanthropy on this occasion, to do an injury to the Public. Now, looking to the present Bills, and to - their provisions, he feared of their efficacy ; for, on enquiry, it would be found that in places where the capital punishment had been most adhered to, the commission of the crime had been the less frequent; whilst, on the contrary, since the Bank of England had held in their hands a power of taking persons and trying them for the minor offence, crime, as regarded the forgery of Bank -notes, had very much encreased. Upon this principle he should op pose the Bill. Mr. NVILBERFORCE was anxious now to say a few words in favour of this Bill, lest it should unfor tunately be lost, and lie not have an opportunity of declaiing his approval of it. He thought the Bill ought to go to a Committee, to shew to the Public that the subject had undergone the fullest discussion before it was rejected, if rejected it should ulti mately be; and on these grounds he must conjure the [louse not to refuse going into a Committee. As to the great number of forgeries of Bank -notes, it should be taken into consideration how great a num ber were in circulation, and with what facility they might be imitated. Some conversation then took place on the right of Sir James Mackintosh to reply to the arguments of those who had opposed the Bill, between the Marquis of LONDONDERRY, Mr. TIERNEY, Mr. WINN, and Mr. BATIIURST. Sir J A MES M ACKINTOSH ultimately addressed the House. Had he not considered that silence on his part would look like disrespect to the House, be would most willingly have left this question on the speech of the Honourable Member for Wey mouth, which was one of the most luminous and eloquent it had ever been his good fortupe to hear delivered by any Member of that House. The Ho nourable Member then proceeded to defend the Bill, and contended that severity of punishment operated to prevent prosecution; and that the House, in legislating on the Bankrupt Laws, last Session, legislated on that principle. It appeared, by the evidence of several eminent Bankers in London, that, in their opinion, a great majority of eases of private forgery escaped unpunished, and that this re luctance to prosecute arose from the severity of pu nishment. Some Hon. Members had urged the ne cessity of improvement of secondary punishment ; but this was, in fact, to begin at the wrong end. We should commence by the reduction of capital punish ments, and the improvement of secondary punish ments would follow. As to the Bill going to a Corn I I - mince, was it necessary to inform the Noble Marquis oppo.ite, that his permitting the Bill to go to the Committee would not prevent his moving the inser tion or omission of any douse he chose relative to the forgery of wills, or any other subject he might think proper? In the case of the public forger, the forger VI AS wholly unknown to the prosecutor, and no re luctance to prosecute could exist. The execution of such men could not be unpopular. The Noble Lord bad confoundcd two distinct uffences, r forgery and littering; and to remove that confusion was one of the objects of the Bill. By the Bill, the distinction between the casual and the professed utterer would be clearly drawn. The House loal heard nothing of the opinion of the Noble Lord as to the other Bills. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL objected to the Bill, because the punishment of death bad been found effectual to check the offence.—The House dibided : For the Original Motion - - - lln For the Amendment - 74 Majority for the Committee —44 On the return of strangers to the Gallery, the House was in a Committee on the Bill.—Report on Friday. The Committees on the Dwelling House Robbery Bill, and the Navigable Rivers Robbery Bill, were postponed to Friday. The other Orders were then disposed of, and the House ad journed at a Quarter past Two o'Clock. was more calculated! to excite alarm than to witness. the earnestness with which the slaves of power sought to put down the Liberty of the Press, the only secu rity of our dearest rights. For this purpose the sword had at one time been employed, and the instrument now was a select body of persons falsely calling themselves a Constitutional Society—(eippiause).— He should have thought that the Government might have been satisfied with the unconstitutional powers exercised by the Attorney-General, without calling in the aid of a miscalled Constitutional Association, composed of men who were ready to do that which the forbearance of the Law Officers of the Crown de clined to undertake—(Cheers). The Hon. Baronet then commented on the connection which a distin guished military leader had with the Society in question. That gallant Officer ought to recollect that he owed his preent elevation to the courage and the purse of the People—(Loud applause). It was, however, peculiarly uafortunate that under some cir cumstances the very, virtues of the people were turned against themselves. This must always happen, while a portion of the people exercised an unconstitutional controul in the character of a standing army—(Ap p/arise). This select body had no interest in common with their fellow men, and they were held completeiy distinct from them. However, he must congratu late the regular troops and the country, that the atrocities at Manchester could not be imputed to them. They were free from that foul disgrace. Ile hoped that those atrocities would never be forgotten —([.end cries of Never, never!)—and he did lot de spair of living to see the day when justice would be done to those who had been maimed, mutilated, i and massacred on the too memorable Ifith of August —(Continued cheers, and cries 9f" We hope you will.") So atrocious were those acts, that Ministers had not I dared to avow them, and they found it necessary to resort to false pretences, and charge the People with having been guilty of the greatest excesses, in order , to reconcile the public mind to the enormities of their own blood-thirsty practices. When all their charges against the People turned out to be without founda tion, they only sealed a verdict against themselves— : a verdict which was now upon record, and which no- Lthing could erase. It was in vain that a Noble Lord attempted in the House of Commons to account for the atrocities at Manchester, by stating that stones had been flung at the Yeomanry, and that some of them had been knocked down. These statements were found to be entirely groundless, and one knew not in what light to con,ider them when they were made in such a place, and• under such circumstances. The Noble Lord surely must have been under some peculiar influence when he delivered himself so con fidently on the subject. Well might be said— - 11 Whatsoever cunning fiend it was " That wrought upon thee so preposterously; " If that same demon that hath gull'd thee thus Should, with his lion gait, walk the whole world, " He might return to vasty Tartar back, " And tell the legions I can never win " A soul so easy as that Englishman's !" " Irishman's," he should rather say—( Cheers and laughter).—Yet he had no doubt that the same ears which listened to those statements, would listen to any others equally groundless, which the Noble Lord might think proper to make, provided the object was for the encroachment on our few remaining rights. At Manchester, the last act of violence was commit ted against the People, by a Borou4mongering Faction— ( Applause ).—The real crime/of the Re formers was, that they had set themselves in opposi tion to that Faction. Had they gone on with Lud diteism, the offence would have been borne ; but, because they demanded their rights by attacking the Oligarchy in the House of Commons, they were consi dered to be guilty of the crime of High Treason (Cheers). It was true, that as yet it had nut been made high treason for the people to petition the House of Com mons for the restoration of their rights, but it was probable that it soon would be. Yet the Ministers knew very well that the people had no treasonable views. The people respected the power and prero gatives which were vested in the King, and their only object was that they should exercise a fair controul over them by their Representatives in Parliament. The Honourable Baronet concluded some further observations, by urging the necessity of Reformers uniting together for the one grand object they had in view, sinking all minor differences. He ssas con vinced that they could bring such force to bear on the House of Commons, as must compel the Mem bers of it to listen to their demands, however unwil ling they might be to give an ear to them.--[The Honourable Baronet was loudly cheered for some moments after he had sat down.]—Sir Francis then proposed— " The memory of our defenceless and unfortunate fellow subjects, men, women, and children, who were slaughtered at Ptlanchester on the 16th of August, 1819." This toast was drank in solemn silence. The Hon. DOUGLAS KINNAIRD then pronounced a high eulogy on the merits of Mr. Hobhouse, and proposed his health in the following terms:- 0 The able and intrepid opposer of a Boroughmongering Oli garchy—the man who dares to attack apostacy, though sheltered by power—John Cam Hobhoute, Esq." Mr. Hoamouse came forward to return thanks for the honour done him. His sense of the compliment was stronger than that of the Hon. Baronet, in pro portion as his claims upon the Meeting were less con siderable. He was bound to thank them all for their notice of him, but particularly his Hon. Friend who had proposed his health. He had to complain, how ever, that his name was introduced in too flattering terms. But this was not the first time he had expe rienced the kindness of the people of Westminster.— Indeed, he might almost say he was spoiled by their over-indulgence—(Hear, hear).—Some time had now elapsed since their suffrages had sent him into Parlia ment. 'ln Parliament he was coadjutor to the Hon. Baronet—his election was brought about under his Auspices, but it was for the Electors to say whether he (Mr. H.) had fulfilled the expectations which were en tertained of him before he became their Representative. He, at least, had never sinned wilfully against his leaky ; if he was found wanting, it was not from lack of teal to the great cause, or devotion to their inte rests, but from the absence of those talents, perhaps,' and that ability, which were as often turned against liberty as in favour of it—(Loud applause).—}lrs task was one of responsibility—yet, under other circum stances it would have been a more difficult one.— Knowing the character of the people who had sent him—conscious that his weak efforis for their Cathit in that ••••." Assembly would- be tried by dI - .cri• minating and candid judges, he was more at ease-.. he did his best, and he always found his constituent* ready to second his humble exertions—(Applause).— He was also assisted by the kind and philosophizing, friend by his side—(Hear)—a friend ever ready to point him out the way to gain the esteem of good men, if he had but the courage to follow it—(Hear). He had the satisfaction, too, of receiving aid from very many Memhei.s of the House, who not from party motives (for no good was ever done by party), but from individual feelings, joined the ranks, and advocated the cause of the people. Ile could say with pride and pleasure, that during the last Session there- , were many—very many of that class of Gentlemen, who shewed all possible zeal for the people, and did all that could be expected from them. Indeed, there were at this moment some of them in the room, tee whose names he hoped an opportunity wonted he given the Electors of testifying their gratitude be fore they departed—(Loud and repeated applause),— And, whilst upon this topic, he would just add, that he could name several Noblemen and Gentlemeh who expressed to him their regret at not being pre sent on this occasion to meet the Electors. Amongst others, he would mention a friend to his country, and one who, in the late transactions connected with the Queen, made no small figure—he meant Dr. Lushington—(Loud cheers).—Dr. Lushington stated, in his letter, that he would feel great pleasure ?Is meeting the Electors of Westminster, esteeming as he ' did their exertions in favour of Reform, and admiring as he did the example which they had set the whole country; but that he was obliged to absent himself by the circumstance of his being compelled to attend the debate on the Criminal Laws to-night in the House of Commons. Another of these Gentlemen was Mr. Lennard—(Hear, hear)—a contemporary of his own—a man who, in his late efforts to obtain a, restoration of the People's rights, haal laid a ground of no small claim to their gratitude; he also ex pressed a wish to meet his brother Electors, but was prevented by unavoidable circumstances. He had also a letter from Lord Nugent—(Hear, hear)—who also expressed his regret at being obliged to attend in his place in the House, having given notice of a motion, some time ago, which was to come on to. night. e could not forget Mr. Bennett too—(Hear, hear)—who apologized for his absence, being equally anxious to meet the Electors of Westminster on this great occasion. The cause, then, did not want friends, and whatever was lost by the - remissness of its sup porters was sure to be made up by its opponents' vices. Some of its opposers were no inconsiderable allies. Great events had happened since they last met; but what had they proved ? One, and only one thing— the crying necessity of Parliamentary Reform. They proved that, without Reform, the country could not be well governed. No justice was to be expected, .unless the People were well represented—(Hear). He would not, however, go into the subject, as it had been already so largely discussed by the Honourable Baronet; all he would say was, that they would ever find him a zealous advocate in the great cause, and that he would ever lend his aid to its furtherance, so long as he had a seat in Parliament, or influence any where else—(Hear). lie wished, however, to call their attention to the actual state which we were now in. The whole counti y was complaining, but they knew not where to a,k. for relief. Yet our rulers told us we were doing very well—(A laugh). They pointed out instances of success here and there, and then said, " Oh, it is impassible but yon must be in good case." This Sort of comfort was like that which a certain Doctor F aye his patient. " Doctor," said the patient, .4 I don t sleep."--" I'm glad of it," says the Doctor, " it is a good symptom." " But then I am fe verish." "The best thing in the world, and is just what might be expected at this stage of the disorder."—(.4 laugh). So, like the patient, we were dying of ten thou- • sand good symptoms !—(Laughter). But the political doctors would not give the People the prescription which their case wanted—which they had been asking for the last thirty years. They knew that they would then be made to "wince;" indeed they could not relieve the People of their burthens unless they re lieved themselves of some of their emoluments-- (4pplause).—lii one respect, however, the House of Commons did that which was recommended to the old Parliaments. In an old book called the Mill-our of Justices, a work to which the Hon. Baronet often had occasion to allude, it was laid down that Parlia ment ought to " meet only for the salvation of the souls of trespassers"—(4 laugh).—Now it would seem that this was the very object tOr which our Parlia ments did meet—for they always saved the trespassers at the expense of the condemnation of the whole nation besides--(Hear ' hear).—lt was impossible fo r an y one, not actually a prophet, to foretell, when Parlia. ment met this year, that the whole People of Eng land would be found to be in the wrong, and that none were right but those few trading politicians who opposed the will of the People—(Vicar, hear).-.... But Parliament, determined to be true to itself, found that things were so—they absolved the trespassers, and in every respect proved themselves a salutary and opportune Assembly—(lkar). Indeed, so great was the good-nature of the Assembly to which they had sent him (Mr. Hobhouse), that there was no sin which did not find a justification theme. He would not detain them further, knowing that they would be addressed by other Gentlemen in the course of the evening, than to say, that the vision of those Gentle men must be strange indeed, who, amid the general distress, could imagine that there was any necessity for propping up the power of the Attorney-General —(Hear). It was often said that the Attorney-Ge. neral was of himself powerful ; or that, if he wanted any aid, there were imps at hand, little individuals ready to afford it, who must be called the devils of the Attorney-General—(Loud laughing). But was this not eaougf Should Lords, nay Ladies too-_ (Hear)—stand forth, ambitious, it would seem, of being called the Attorney-General's suit-devils?— (Laughing). Their patriotism though got the upper hand. These were the folks to distinguish between the liberty and licentiousness of the Press, as if the Attorney-General, whose trade it was to attend to these matters, did not see the distinction— (Hens). — He (Mr. Hobhouse) had in his hand a list of some ci: these worthies. Amongst them he noticed a Sir delta Sewell, Alderman ltothwell, Sir Thomas Lt thbridge, whose' haisistood on end' on a late occasion—(Lough. ter)—and other high and mighty names—worthy of uetng placarded at Charing.cross, Ludgate-hilt, lemple-bar, Paul's Cross, and every other Cross or PURITY OF ELECTION. Yesterday the Fourteenth Anniversary Dinner of the Electors of Westminster took place at the Crown and Anchor Tavern, Sir FRANCIS BURDETT in the Chair. The Hon. Baronet was supported on his right by Mr. HOBHOUSE and Mr. Alderman WOOD, and on his left by Mr. WHITBREAD and the /lon. DOUGLAS KINNA I RD. Dinner was announced for five o'clock. At that hour upwards of four hundred individuals had taken their seats at the different tables. As soon as the cloth was removed, the first toast given from the Chair was-- " The People—the only source of Le;itimate Power." This was followed by— " The King—and may he never forget his own declaration, that the Crown is held in trust for the benefit of the People."— I Air, " Hope told a flattering tale." The next toast was "The Queen ;" and it is impose Bible to convey an adequate idea of the enthusiasm with which it was received. The shouts of applause continued for several moments. Air, " Rule Britan nia." This toast was succeeded by— " The only cure for all our grievances—a thorough Reform in the Commons House of Parliament."—lt was drank with three times three, amidst repeated cheers. Air, " Kick the rogues out." Mr. Hume and Mr. P. 0011 E now entered the room, and were gleeted by the company in the warmest manner. Mr. Alder man Woon then rose and said, that a duty devolved* upon him which he felt himself en tirely unable to discharge. He was, however, in a great degree, relieved from his embarrassment by the conviction that the company were too well ac quainted with the great worth of their excellent Re pre,entative, Sir Francis Burdett, to require anything to be said in favour of that distinguished patriot— ( Loud applause).—The Hon. Baronet was the firm and undeviating assertor of the People's rights, under all circumstances. Few had suffered more in the cause of liberty, apd none complained less of his suf fering in that cause than their belo►ed Representative —(Grentapplause).—lt appeared that he never con sidered his own comforts, when the interests of the People were concerned. The Hon. Alderman then proposed— " The constant opposer of tyranny and corruption, the steady advocate of Constitutional rights, undaunted by persecution, and unsullied by corruption—Sir Francis Burdett." As soon as the enthusiastic cheers of the company had allowed him to proceed, Sir FRANCIS Bvarierr.observed, that he could not but feel highly gratified :in I flattered by the manner in which his health had been received by so nume rous and respectable a meeting of the Electors of Westminster as he now saw present. Indeed he felt particularly so, after the long intimacy which had subsisted between him and his constituents—an inti macy which he hoped neither party had any occasion to regret—(Applause)..---It had continued too long fur deceit on the one hand, or dupery on the other. Of his conduct they were best able to judge; and he might appeal to them with more confidence than to any other body of men with whom he was acquainted. He would further add, that to no body of men did he hold himself so much responsible for his acts as to the Electors of Westminster. The Hon. Alderman who had proposed his health was pleased to speak of him in very lfandsome terms ; yet he must observe, that the privations and sufferings alluded to by his Hon. Friend were more than repaid by the good-will of his countrymen. When his Hon. Friend said that he (Sir F. Burdett) had suffered in support of the constitutional rights of the People, he formed too high an estimate of the humble services which he (Sir F. Burdett) had been able to render, as the ad vocate of freedom. When he (Sir Francis Burdett) turned his eyes to others who were suffering under what was termed, in the technical designation, the law, for offences unknown to the Constitution, and not considered as such by any Government since the expulsion of the Stuarts, he could not help regard ing his own privations as a mere nothing (Applause). The great object of the Electors of Westminster was to obtain a fair Representation of the People in Par ' liament; and it was truly gratifying to him, to see that they went oh steadily' in pursuit of it. There had been no falling off since the time they first took up the question with so much earnestness ; and al though they had been so long working in an unpro fitable vineyard, he hoped, that while the minds of the People became every day more enlightened, they would more clearly perceive, that without Reform neither their lives nor properties could be deemed' secure—(Loud applause).—lt was a pleasing reflec tion that those who had been the most strenuous op ponents of Reform, were now convinced, by the fatal effects of the policy they had adopted, that Reform was necessary—(Cheers).—He trusted that by a close union among the great body of Reformers, some thing might be done; and he felt great encourage 4nent to go on in the course which the Electors of Westminster had so long and so consistently pur sued. During his absence from the House of Coin mons, the question of Reform had been taken up by a Gentleman every way qualified to do it justice; though the manner in which it went off afforded but little satisfaction to the Public ; yet he was convinced that it lost nothing in the hands of the Gentleman to whom be alluded. He would not impute to any party the intention of getting rid of so important a question in the manner it had been disposed of; but if any unworthy artifice had been intended, there were many persons who would not have countenaaced it; for he knew that no inconsiderable number or Members stood prepared to support the motion. In looking at the situation of affairs at present, he saw ,nothing consolatory, foi fresh encroachments were ruisdo ',MI day on the liberties of England. Nothing • -v., • • ••• • • - .1•4••••,, , . • -•• • • •.. , • • • • i r 4. 1