Star. — London, England, 1810-03-10 00:00:00

and from "the papers now on the table, it was proved *hat the prices of corn were higher now, with less chance of importation to increase our supply, than when the former Bills passed ; and it was perfectly consistent with the principle of our corn laws, which were calcu lated to secure a supply for the consumption of the peo ple at a reasonable price, and which permitted foreign importation when that price exceeded a certain point. Importation was not now in our power to the extent necessary for securing a supply to the country on moderate. terms, and the only expedient left. was, to lessen the consumption by stopping the distillery of grain. With respect to the arguthent, that prohibit ing under this act the importation of spirits distilled is Ireland was an infraction of the Union, he contend -- e l that it was in the contemplation of those who framed the articles of Union to act up to them, as far as was possible : but they foresaw, that under the al tered system of connection between the countries, a number of difficulties would arise for several years ; the nature of which it was impossible so precisely to foresee, as effectually to provide against them in the first instance, wi;hout great injury to Ireland, and therefore must remain for adjustment as they should occasionally arise. This Act would inflict no penalty upon Ireland, for it did not prevent the Irish from distilling their own corn for their own consumption, and it provided the Irish farmer .st ready market for his abt;ndant harvest. But it would. imp itale to . - allow the , produce of the Irish D i to Toned into this country during the operation of this Act without injury to England; and he ;mitt -not conceive, that, under existing circumstince4V•lC was a violation the virit of the Union, to adopt a tata. sure of fair protection to British interest. Lord ABERDEEN spoke against this Bill. Lord Viscount SIDMOUTH took a most com prehensive view of the subject. The principle he had at all times reprobated, but if at any time it was ex pedient to adopt it, certainly the grounds upon which it was now brought forward, were wholly untenable. When in, 1808 itwas introduced, the prices of corn were high, and those of sugar extremely low ; at pre sent tbe•corn was in every part of the country abun dant, whilst sugar had considerably increased in value. At all times he deprecated that mischievous intermeddling spirit which would interfere with the exertions of the farmer, and ultimately decrease the actual quantity of the food of man. The most cer tain way to procure at all times a supply of food, and ' guard against the evils of failing harvests, was to en courage a surplus production of corn ; and that sur plus production could only be encouraged by allow mg the fullest and most unlimited consumption. This he contended was forming the best granary, towhich, .under an accidental pressure, the State could look for •raupply. The Noble Viscount declared his great anxi ety to afford some permanent remedy to the great dis . tresses of the West India Planters • but contended, that both with reference to the Moth er Country, and to the Colonies, the present -measure was calculated to produce no benefit to the latter, whilst to the for mer, it was replete with so many evils, that he felt • himself called upon to give it his most determined opposition. - • • - Lord HOLLAND observed, that much miscon ception existed. upon this subject, both within that House and out of doors. He denied that it way a question between the corn-grower of the parent state and the West-India planter. -It was in his opinion a fairer view of the question to consider it as a struggle between the British West-India planter and the land holder of France. Upon that principle then of just . policy, should the Legislature refuse to yield to the colonies tl*t preference which the present measure afforded them? With 'respect to what had fallen from a Noble Earl (Aberdeen),relative to the quan tity of dsmaged•barley remaining on hand since the last harvest, and which, it was contended, the distil lers would have used, he saw ro farce in the objec tion, because it was well known that as the excise was levied upon the wash, which damaged or undamaged barley would produce in the same quantity, the dis tillers by the use of the undamaged would be subject to the payment of an increased duty. The Noble Lord, though differing, with regret, from those with whom he actedin that House, still Elt it to be his duty to support the measure. Lord HARDWICKE exhortedthe blouse to pause before it gave its assent to a proposition at all times hostile to the interests of agriculture, but at this mo ment not even warranted by Iny one of the reasons which induced its original adoption. Lord. LAUDERDALE entered at length into the question itself, which he considered at variance with every sound principle of political economy. Tne No ble Lord stated, that he most fully concurred with his Noble Friend -(Grenville), upon the systematic conduct of the Ministers to degrade that branch of the Legislature. What other term could he apply to such conduct, when lie saw questions of legislation, involving•the best interests of the country, hurried in the most shameful manner through that House? When the public interest, or any right of the people was af; fected, then all was haste and anxiety :o get rift of it. No time left for inquiry or explanation. But vas a particle qf the . Royal Prerogative that was in ;dap. ger, 'then the Noble Lords were impressed with the deepest sense of deliberation and caution. Every technical advantage was taken, and so keen was op position, that even on the first reading of a Bill it was evinced. . After some observations from Lords LIMERICK and BATtionsT, the question for adjourning the discussion until Monday, was negatived without a division, and the Bill was read a third time and passed. EXPI ANON , (IF PRISONERS. Lord HOLLAND seeing the Cabinet Ministers in their places, particularly the Noble Lord at the head of the Admiralty, expressed his anxious desire to put a question upon a subject, on which he was con vinced the Noble Lord would feel glad to afford ex planation. It had been stated in a public paper of the French Government, that a Convention at Mot laix for the exchange of prisoners had been broken off by this country, lest the arrangement should lead to a negotiation for peace. Lord MULGRAVE assured the Noble Lord, that the statement was wholly unfounded. It was true that there had been an arrangement far that purpose, but it was broken off upon its own merits, without any reference to a negotiation for peace. Lord GRENVILLE directed the attention of their Lordahips to the return of a Mr. Catherwood to the order of that House, requiring the average prices of corn during the different periods when distillation from grain was suspended. To that order, a return • was,made more in the nature of an epigram than the account that was due to the dignity of a House Of Parliament. That Gentleman stated, that he could not give any such return, as he did not know the pe riods when distillation from grain was prohibited.— As an Officer of Government, it was his duty to know what the law of the country had enforced. His Lord ship suppo ;ed that the House would see the necessity of having this return amended. Earl BATHURST stated, that he did not see the return until he was on his w.iy to the. House that day. He then ft:lt that it was kn improper one, and gave instructions that it should be forthwith amended. Adjourned at half-past twelve. HOUSE OF COMMONS. A writ was ordered for the election of a Member for Hytbe, in the room of Thomas Godfrey, Esq. deceased. Some documents were presented at the table, by a person from the Proctor General of the Court of Admiralty ; and also the Annual Account of the Receipts and disbursements of the Lon don Dock Company. EAST INDIA JURISDICTION. The SPEAKER acquainted the House, that the Clerk had prepared and laid on the table a List of the Members who had delivered in Lists for information of the Committee of East In dia Jurisdiction. Mr. BATHURST moved for Copies of Letters of Sir Lucas Pepys to the Secretary at War, respecting the state of the health of his Majesty's troops on the island of Walcheren, with copies of any reports made thereon.—Ordered. Mr. LUSHINGTON presented the Bahama Islands, Ameri can Salt Importation Bill, the Sugar Bounty and Drawback Bill, the Customs Fraud Prevention Bill, and the Greenlapd Whale Fishery Bill ; all read the first time, and ordered for their second readings on Monday next. On the motion of Mr. ROSE, the House resolved into a Com mittee, to take into consideration the expediency of continuing the Foreign Corn and Provision Importation Bill. Resolved, That it is expedient to continue the said Act, and that the Chairman be directed to ask leave to bring in a bill ac cordingly. FOREIGN SLAVE TRADE. Mr. BROUGHAM gave notice of a motion on Monday, for certain documents, to shew what steps had been taken by his Majesty's Government in their interference with foreign powers, for carrying into effect the Resolution passed by the House in 1806, for Abolishing the African 'lave Trade. He did not in tend this motion for any purpose of embarrassingMioisters, who, he was confident, would be rea - iy to procuce the documents in question. Ordered, on the motion of Sir JOHN NEWPORT, that there be laid before the House an account of the expenditure of all the sums granted by Parliament for forming an Artillery Depot and Magazine at Ballincolly, &c. ADMIRALTY COURT. Lord COCHRANE, pursuant to his notice on a former day, rose to move for some additional papers from the Admiralty Court, respecting certain Dutch and Prussian ships, detained and sent in by his Ma jesty's cruizers, and since condemned as prizes ; and which the papers recently moved for by the Officers of that Court rendered necessary to support his for mer statement. His Lordship pledged himself, if these papers were granted, and he hoped there could be no objection to their production, to prove the enormous abuses which existed in the proceedings of the Admiralty Court, and the exorbitant fees deman ded by their officers, which often amounted to the greater part of the proceeds of prize vessels, and, which added to the expences of suit, and the delays attendant thereon, rendered it scarcely worn, the while of the captors to take prizes. The Noble Lord went into a variety of statements to sustain his assertions, and concluded by moving for the papers. Sir JOHN NICHOL denied that the statement of the Noble Lord was correct ; and deprecated such charges against the conduct of the Court of Admi ralty, until the documents were before the House up on which they were alledged to be grounded. The documents which he had himself moved for, in :on sequence of the statement of the Noble. Lord, on a former night, went to a complete refutation of that statement ; and he therefore hoped the Noble Lord would not persist in this species of unfounded impu ti.tion, tending to cast unmerited censure upon the character and proceedings of a Court, whose jurisdic tion was highly respected in America, and in every nation of Europe. If any Proctor of that Court had acted improperly, or any agent fraudulently or cor ruptly, or even if the King's Advocate gave injudi cious advice, how could the Court of Admiralty be responsible ? Sir C. POLE supported the motion, and commen ted upon the enormous charges of the King's Proctors. Mr. ROSE defended the charges of the Proctors, and the general conduct of tilt Court of Admiralty. The character of the Judge, 'who presided there, was too well known to need any panegyric : it was as re spectable abroad as it was creditable to the country which employed him ; and he was particularly in formed by a friend who had lately returned from America, that amid all our jars and animosities with that country, the name of Sir William Scott was held in the greatest veneration. (Hear, hear.) With respect to the complaints which were daily urged, he declared his intentv n of bringing every disputed point which came within his notice, before the Court of Ad miralty, and either obtain redress for the aggrieved, or shew the Navy, by a thorough investigation, that such complaints were utterly unfounded. Lord COCHRANE shortly replied, and stated the increase of revenue which accrued to France from duties arising from ships leaving her ports. Sir WILLIAM SCOTT desired the motion might be read, which having been done accordingly, he proceeded. The Noble Lord (he said) who had brought this motion forward had assumed great cre dit to himself, for having at the end of the last Ses sion given a notice tending to detract from the cha racter of the Court over which be had the honour to preside. The accusation was brought forward when there was no possibility of a defence, and thus al lowed to impend for many months over the head of the Court, which couL; not demand its trial, and of course could not ward off a most painful and depre ciating suspicion. This was a mode of proceeding which could not be sufficiently deprecated, nor too severely reproved ; it was placing a man in the situ ation of a supposed culprit, in whom every guilt was likely to be presumed, and from whose society every ihuocent man was ready to fly—abandoned by socie ty, cut off, end in a manner excommunicated, he might in the end appear completely guiltless, and prove by' his acquittal that his only m►sfortune was not being allowed in time an opportunity of defence. (Hear, hear.) Notwithstanding the cruelty of this, many men were to be found anxious to bring forward an unfounded accusation, and the world in general was but too prone to its reception. He deplored the custom, and deprecated its continuance, and he did .~- so the morreatnestly, feeling acutely its injustice iii Ifs own case. It was not until now that he had an opportunity of defence—now, after tie charge had been held over him for such a length of time, washe allowed, or enabled-to stand forward openly in justi i cation of principles,than which nothing could be more pu:e, and in defence of conduct, than which nothin could be more correct. Vileabusehad been cast on him; most unwarrantable aspersions advanced, and it was only now that he had an opportunity of facing hi accuser, and confuting his unmanly and unmanner ly attacks. (Order, Order !) He begged pardon of , the House for the warmth into which he had been be trayed, but hoped they would consider his prcivoca-, tion as his excuse. (Hear, hear.) Now, however, that the charges were at issue, he could only say that! they were not true ; and even if they were, could by no means effect the object for which they were ad vanced. They went to accuse agents in the Court of Admiralty, and to visit upon the Court itseif the punisliment of practices s .which might never _have came to its knowledge. Because the Proctors, or ' the inferior officers in the. Court were in error (~upp osing it true), was that a reason why the Court should be censured ? was any man to be made re sponsible for that which was not his own act ? Where could a more unjust doctrine be advanced ? pie . ad mitted, indeed, if the Prdctors had, been guilty, and that evidence of their guilt had been . brought before the Court and slighted, then there would exist good ground of complaint and censure upon the Cssfirt ; but when the impropriety of its inferior officers was totally unknown to the Court, when no comp had been made, nor any evidence adduced tending to their accusation, or the information of the Court, . could any thing be more unjust than to censure the Court for not preventing that which it could not tore see, or not punishing that which it was impossible for it to have known ? (Hear, hear!) This was a posi tion than which, it would be imagined, nothing could be more plain ; but than which, judging by i•the conduct of the . Noble Lord, nothing could be more obscure. Nothing could dispel the prejudice or allay the passion of. the Noble Lord ; so manifest was it, that even his colleague, unfriendly as he was to the Court, condemned his want of moderation—a want too apparent even for his hostility to overlook. ff, indeed, there was the least candour in, the NOble Lord's proceedings, what could incloce . hirn to coun tenance the declaration, that there was no truth to be expected from the Court ? What charge was :there ever proved to warrant such an assertion ?• • Even al lowing the utmost that could be demanded, what - I had the errors of the Advocate Getrefal, or the I King's Proctor, to do with the conduct of the. Court? These were no more connected with its proceedings, or identified with its measures, than were the Solici tor General or the Attorney General with the Court of King's Bench.—(Hear !)—lf ;hey committed er ror, made an undue agreement with their clients, or committed any clandestine act, how could they be censured by the Court, unless such error was com plained of to it ? Prove such proceeding once to have been known to the Court, and neglected, *and then with justice you may proceed , oto its condemnation ; • but you cannot condemn it for that of which it was • and must have been ignorant. -Equally unfounded with respect to the Court was the - Charge as to the alteration of the warrant ; this if trite, might have been fin- the benefit of the captors; butt wheeler , true or false, just or flagitious, it *as tiot - titona to the Court, and therefore cofild not foirm any cEarge against it. Was it right, however, to make such charges as had been made the basis of a complaint tp that House ? Were they to be occupied in Canvassing officers' bills ( Heat, hear.)' Nothing surely could be ttlfling more with their 'attention than such conduct. If indeed any grave and serious charge could be substan tiated against him, he was ready to meet the penalty. Let him, iftehad failed in his duty, if he had been guilty of any dereliction, " if trembling he inhibit" let him be visited with every vengeance—let the thunders of that House be launched against him just as freely as had been the Noble Lords abuse. As to the other charge—as to what had been idly and stupidly called "the monopoly of the King's Proctor, it partook of the deficiency of all the other charges ; it by no ' means inculpated the Conn—(hear.) With respect to the production of all the Records of the Court, lie would put it to the sense of the Noble Lord, (And for his talents, however associated, he professed the highest respect,) whether this was possible—whether it was even fair, to demand that a mass of papers of fifteen years' compilation, beyond even the computa tion of figures, should be suddenly produced ? If any distinct papers were called for, which could be found without difficulty, and on which the liable Lord fan cied he could found any case, he was :ere he should be the last man to refuse them. The present motion he should not oppose ; though even if the supposition upon which it was made, was proved—even if it was made manifest that the King's Proctor had over charged, that no more concerned the Court of Ad miralty, than dist the extortion of one of its Attorhies, the Court of Common Pleas or King's Bench. . Un less the Bills of such persons were laid distinetiv be fore their respective - Courts for revision, andfi.new glected by them, no charge could possibly lie agathsts the Court. He was very far from arrogatinrany peculiar respect for himself, or tor the Court over Which he presided, but there were some prudential cohsi derations which he wished to submit to the Noble Lord, and to the HouSl, if he thought proper not to entertain them. The Courts of Justice of the coun try were solemn institutions, meant for the protection of the subject, and the promulgation .of the laws ;in their support the nation was highly interested, and 1 the preservation of their dignity shoul.l be its most serious object. (Hear, hear!) If this was not pre-, served—if they were suffered to be assailed by vague abuse, and illiberal aspersions—if a system of attack, which brought forward no direct charge, but which • grounded its hope of success, notion its justice but its perseverance, non vi .red se) e cadendo, was to be coun -1 tenanced, then the subject was insecure, because.the administration of the laws would be impossible. If . those observations applied to every Court; they did Iso particularly to the Court of Admiralty—a Court , whose adjudication was impeded by many dialculties, which had to defend the various maritime rights of a great maritime country, against the constant and encroaching claims of neutrals.—(l-lear, hear.) He hoped this consideration would weigh with the Noble Lord ; he wished particularly to enforce it upon him, as this was the first attack with which he had ho noured him. To his Honourable Colleague, indeed, , that .:, that Gentler,. '. Wofitlintimacy andfi4i,lin:: experience of hostirite• had taugh t hi m te al:n t d l s ife h: o c r ou p l could b n i o i c t t conceive conduct, what d thatsa v. i i i n t , a. uiss attadcke. n .s which could warrant the assertion habits was. incapable d4 he,truth Id obstruct his d ~- e M a a n g y is c te ir r c ial um s s t u ati n o ce n, cou I l lhi p sfi c rih o r :e i i t de i pffi v r : s ciiiveendcYf:)r'friluenryiYarnpeal. l, h c r i l c a er l e f plii:r . eli eeei:t:d iti d li o isa in t g justice. The Noble Lord, however, . mi g h t e b they he be Mess prejudiced d it i . ce tii s e l ; C a o n u d rt h of e A wo d u rn ld ira p l u t ; t u t .a t s o th h day by slay in this country, it could possibly re many respect in 'any other? Front h;ieiicliiito.lbeledewci:i can cand or t tl h i e e i high r p r iv ilitrogneosu as s o i f .a r our as i naval n i pri ie and heartfelt satisfaction to Lave su o s 0n... it w as le he hoped they were abose being tainted by t i li P el. 1 shouldtred. p lc} o . contagion of such misrepresentation ask, if once they came to suspect that e i o c t rn a b n i d ne t d h i a n t ie t a h g e tie po ag w a cr in s stwthein ea . t " ect rr u ".P ei t what would be tho consequence ? W's . at WOuLl t%e tl immediate impression upon themselves? • " WI , -- t c ell* Upon fOreikin countries ? That the pape rs2,- called for, could lead to any such suspicion, he lernnly declared hii disbelief. •He satisfied , 513' was 6, „ on their piodtiction; every tittle of the charg e s ‘.. i l l be disproved. If he was wrong, let him -.°''''' suffe r the heaviest censure ; but if he was right , • let , th en tr House exert its due authority, and - rescue an upri e a s .e Court of Justice from the grievance of a p erDe - tll --- 21 scrutiny, and the stigma of a prejudiced, b imputation.—{ Hear, hear.) . Mr. \V. S MITH had no doubt what ever of th e private honu'ir and public integrity of the la . ig a t H o . nourable and Learned Gentleman who had jus t down ;he knew well that he was an honour 54 to his' country, and afforded satisfaction to every et h er. _ There was one practise however (with no di srespect towards him) of the maritime code of this country which he wished to notice. He had h eard, )- teat if , ' awing a war with any oauntry, neutral,ves e l s were taken on suspicion, referred to the Court of Adni ralty for adjudication, and declared friends, still it was in the power of the captors to appeal, and, if pending the appeal, a war was declared with the ei tion. to which such ships belonged, they were co s . demned as lawful prize ! If this was true, as he be. lieved it was, no matter upon what ficsion, or four dation such a principle rested, it was no other drape public robbery and piracy upon the High Seas. NI wonder neutrals would be dissatisfied at a prance tending to such violence on .the part of the c2 r . 'tors, and chicane towards the captured. It midst said, that this was practised by other countries, tit this he would not consider as an exception to'the argument, or a justification of the practice. As we were first in power, we ought to be first in setting a 1:oe good example ; and he was sure it was equally 'in. cumbent on all parties to discontinue, as soon as pos. :Able . , what cod be considered in no other tight than as the code of a nest of pirates. The . CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could not consider it exactly regular to branch out on a subject of this nature into a discussion of the law of nationa, • Tie. Honourable Gentleman disclaimed in the conunencement all personal reflections, and he had ended by a reflection on the laws of nations Nati'a as to the particular practice which was aliu h ies, it was not-only founded on the law of nations,.bv: even on our own Magna Chatta, which said we wee to treat other states as they treated our Merchants. — The case now spoked was exactly s imilar toile dew , 'fiiiii arid Confiscation Of friendly property found in Aug possession on a declaration of war. This principle was acted on most rigorously by the enemy; and he could not see on what iround of policy or self-inter est we were to abandon that of which they took ad vantage.' He agreed to the production of the papers new called for, as naturally following those already before the lleuse, though he could not help thinking they had been taken by surprise in the former case. This arose, indeed, partly from the delicacy of Lis learned Friend not seeming to wish the refusal of any document which was thought necessary by his accu sers to form a charge against him. The nature of tla case now brought before the House was, in his el:. nion, quite inconsistent with its dignity. It was not to be employed in taxing the bills of costs of Proctors and Attornies, unless, indeed, along with the execu tive functions which it seemed of late so anxious to exercise, it adopted also the duties of subordinate Courts. When he gave his consent, now, to the pr - ditction of those papers, he distinctly reserved t!u povVer of examining, when produced, whether tleae `ought to go then to a Committee, or should fiN be referred to a Court below. There was a notiot of the Noble Lord as to the encreased revenue ci France, derived from duties on merchant vessce leaving her ports, of which he wished to take some notice. To refute any such supposition, it was only ,necessary to refer to the Report of the Minister of she Interior, of January 13, in which the receipts of the customs in 1808 were rated at 12 millions of francs; in 1809, they bad diminished ; the receipts of 1697 were not mentioned, but we know, that in that year, from the port of Antwerp alone they amounted to 48 'millions ; so that this one port equalled in One year, the receipts of all France in the year subsea quent. The French Minister, however, consoled himself with the idea, that if the commercial syse tem was so destructive to France, it must have been: more so to Great Britain ! Such was the result of measures which were to prove so harmless to ther u and so fatal to us Lord COCHRANE explained. • of Mr. WILBERFORCE had no idea whatever the Right disparaging the great talents or integrity of ~ , Honourable and Learned Gentleman who env at at the bead of the Admiraty ; he was sure a bette . applied example could not be shewr. of great ab ilities . , to a great object. (Hear, hear.) He could not he+ .l f; however, lamenting sincerely the defence . set up !'r his Right Honourable Friend, of the injustice w hi ch r conduct of til had been noticed, by ailed gin the , cond ;, *Teat enemy as an excuse ; he hoped such con duct and never be considered as a guide by this coun try,c ;lst we would be ever ready to deserve a c ontinuan.e of the praise which we once obtained, of being a tilt, first to break through the thraldom of custom, ,na, He ha d diseontinue a bad practice. (Hear, Hear.) .. complained off heard even an aggravation of the evil b glit m 1 he understood, that when vessels were btvu ,►._ _ privateers, and even adjudged to c la imants, . till 0. four or PI an appeal, if a war broke out, perhaps in .1., .1... yoga to years afterwards, our Courts gav e we . e t i