Star. — London, England, 1817-06-11 00:00:00

- M Ott of i nqu iry was so extensive. it might be better, tonsidesing tie late period of ibe Session, early 'o move a Resolution, that the Home should, early al the n take the subject into consideration ; at the same time he did not feel in the least degree disposed to oppose the motion. Mr. Serjeant ONS LOW thought the House should love no time in proceeding to appoint the Committee, as much miwbt he chine even in this Session. Mr. GRENFELL thought that at least as much as posi;ble should be done this Session. After a kw words from Sir J. Newrottr, Mr. J. SMITH, and Mr. FINLAY. the motion was agreed to. Sir JOHN NEWPORT presented a Petition from the Merchants and Bankers of Dublin, Cork, Lime rick, Watethad, Kilkenny, and Belfast, praying for a revision of the Bankrupt Laws.—Read, and order ed to lie mi tie table. Mr. CALVERT brought in a Bill to prevent fraud in the bagging of bops.--Read a first rime, and ordered to be read. a second time this day se'n night. Sir FRANCIS BURDVITT presented a Petition, numerously simile by the inhabitants of Westminster, camplamsng of the number of Prostitutes that infest ed the streets c.f Westminster.—Read, and ordered to be referred to the Committee on the Police of the Metropolis. Sir M %V. RIDLEY wished to know whether th e Chancellor of Ow Exchegner was aware that the Col lector of Assessed Tax— at Andover had lately sur charged persons there for Navin garden chairs on four wheels, without sptings, and which were some. times dra ," 3by ~ottictib. The tax charged was £l2 In tomtit'. ; the prce of the chair being only £5. Re hoped thi. would be remedied. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that he was aware some difficulty had occurred in the case alluded to by the Honourable Baronet ; and that if there was any mistake it would be rectified. Mr. HUSKISSON moved that there be laid before the House a copy of the Agreement between the Commissioners of Woods and the Duke of Portland for the purchase of the impropriate Rectory of Mary: la-bonne- • Mr. BARING decidedly objected to the advance of any money for the purpose or - purchasing wood lands, though he would have no obj.ction to any bargain attainable by the changing of one kind of Crown property for another. • 1 Lord COCHRANE alluded to the great havoc which had been made in the Crown Forests of Bete, Sec, iu Hampshire. The timber which was cut was split, wait lir any naval purpose whatever, though' the desolation would appear as it there was timber enou g h cut for naval purposes tor the present and many coming generations. The public foreits were tkereture totally mismanaged by individuals. Tte Motions were then agreed to. A Message from the Lords stated, that their Lord shipeh4d agreed to the Employment of the Poor Bill without any amendment, and to the Metropolis paring Bill with some amendments. Sir JOHN NEWPORT gave notice, that to morrow se'nnight he would move that an inquiry be made during the recess into the actual state of .Ire labd, in order that effectual relief may be given to that country by measures in the neat Session. Mr. CALCRAFT, on the part of his Honourable Friend, postponed the Motion on Lord Sidwouth's Circular Letter till to-morrow se'nnight. . Lard CASTLEREAGH rose to oftive for a new Writ for the City of Livreack, in the room of Colo nel Yereker, now a Peer, bvt, in compliance with the wish of Mr. Tierney, he consented to withdraw the Motion for the present. UfINTS IN AID. Mr. W. SMITH rose to move that a Select Com mittee be appointed to inquire into the subject of Ex tents in Aid. The reason he moved for the Cons =lute was. because part of the objects that ought to be attained would nut be reached by the Bill before the House. He wished to inqnire where was the isisdum or justice of giving the creditors the power of imprisouing debtors of the Crown, who, in fact were nothing more chap simple debtors to individuals. The Bill would not reach its own object, and at all events he meant to propose considerable amendments to it. Ihe points to which he wished to direct the attention of the House were, whether there was any use whatever in issuing Exteats in Aid at all ? fur either there was no ground for them, or else the Ex tent ought to be issued by the Court of Exchequer itself against the individual. The stfond was, whe ther it ought to be allowed, under the pretence or shadow of a crown debt, to do what was not allowed it: any other case—to take both the body and goods -et once 3 The subject was, in his opinion, a mockery of justice. Sir M. W. RIDLEY seconded the *Woo, as he was convinced the Bill of the Right Honourable Gentleman tell very far short of remedying the evils at Extents in Aid. He stated a ease ut a ship-buil der. who married the daughter of a poor widow who . kept a little public-house in the County of Durham; the daughter conducted her business, and the brewer - who served her owing Government ASO% procured an Extent in Aid againit her. and in which, by al • artifice. the son-in-law was included; the consequence { was, that the man's creditors all fell upon Sim, ant though in a considerable way of business he was to tally ruined. He animadverted on the gross injus tice of such proceedings, and concluded with hoping that they would soon be put an end to. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER declared that he had not any intention to object to the inquiry. It must be the object of the House to secure the rights of the Crown without injuring the public. The Crown stood merely in this case as the representative of the rights of the great body of the people. It could not be more the wish of the Ho nourable Gentleman than of the House, to the . question the most impartial inquiry, and he should 4lierefore support the motion. The question was then put and carried. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER them moved, that the several Petitions on the •übjeet be refund , to the said Committee. Agieed to. Mr. WILLIAM SMITH said he rose to present a Petutton on this subject from a person. who had been elev.a years an Inukeeper at Oxford. who had an ex tentissued against him by the farmers of the Yost, /wise Doty, for no snore than ,dIV. His other ere shuns then came upon him, and after taking aft his' Loup*, by agagualtnt, be was Uuown tutu pnsou, whence, at the ensl of ten months. he was released by the Insolvent Act. On returning, howeVer, to his Tamil), he war served with a new extent, by which this £$ W.l • increared to £9() by law expenses; he was, in short, obliged to hive his home, in order to vector his person. --"iNe petition was brought up, read, and ord,reti t., he referred to the Committee. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then moved the second reading of his Bill on this subject, on which, Mr. PRO I'HEROE expressed his satisfaction at the emit-se the busines► was taking, and was sure that the whole system would now be amended, to the benefit of the public in general. Mr. WILLIAM SMI CH repeated all his objec tions as to the inefficiency of the Bill, and concluded with opposing its further progress. It was then read a second time, and the Committee on it postponed, at the suggestion of Mr. SMITH, till Friday se'itnigh t. CIVIL SERVICU COMPENSATION BILL. Mr. DAVIES GILBERT having brought up the Report of this Bill, Mr. TIERNEY made a series of objections to its arrangements, a 114 he considered as giving an in crease of patronage to Ministers, rather than effect c ing any saving for the public. The Crown still had the power of granting pensions on the Consolidated Fund to tht amount of iel ',OW a-year. He con tended. that almost as much was granted in compen sations as was abolished in sinecures. The saving stated to be gained by the abolishing of sinecures was 857,000 a-year : against which was to be set 842,000 for compensation ; so that the public only sa7ed .11.5,000 a-year, while the Bill gave to Minis ter; immense pstronage in small places of 4300 or £4OO a-year ; and the Crown altogether by the whole transaction gained £3200 a-year. He implored the House not to be led away by this sort of scheme, ~ which was a mere delusion, by which nobody gained I any thing but the Ministers for the day, as they had i 615,000 a-year to give away, which they would not otheruSo• obtain. The Bill ought to be sent to some Committee, that all these points might be examined. 1 He would always admit that the Crown ought to I have the means of rewarding the servants of the pub. lic, in proportion to their tabours; but he must cis- I ject to ;he way in which it was now proposed to be I done. and he trusted the Noble Lord opposite would 1 coutradict him it fie had taken a wrong view of the subject. It was not, however, his intention to pro pose aiiy alteration in the measure. Loyd CAS I'LEREAGH thought it would be 1 difficult for tile Right Hon. Gentleman to state how he w tild amend this Bill, after he had himself suf fered two such Bills to gu to the Loris, having given his full support and Assisi:dime to them, and both of which went to a much greater extent than this. He bad certainly taken a great deal of pair's, but only 1. misrepresent ; for the moment the public gave their support to the measure, the Right Hon. Gentleman turned round, threw forth all his jokes and sarcasms to disgust them, and set them against it. The Right Hon. Gentleman must know that the patronage of the Law Offices in Ireland, to which he objected. could be destroyed as easily as any other sinecures.— The Crown could only, at the end of two years, put on pensions to the amount of 45000 and not £ll,OOO as he had stated ; and at the end of four years, only 413,000 instead of 418,000 as he had stated. The Noble Lord proceeded to contrast the regulations of the present Bill with those of the measure of the Right Hon. Gentleman, and 'haired that by um latter the public would have been considerably mot* burdened by pensions. There was no limitation to it on the score of liberality, and therefore he must say, that as the Right Hon. Gentleman could not but ap-' prove of this Bill. in his mind. he treated it very ctuelly, as he was quite sure that it must be one that he was disposed to approve of. The question only was as to the quantum of compensation, and he was sorry the Right Hon. Gentleman had come forward to disgust the House and the country with his objeo. tions, without having any thing to propose on the subject. Mr. CALCRAFF repeated his former argument s in favour of the measure. He supported it, as econo mical. and as complying with the wishes of the peo ple, and because he thought that such reductions might be effected ih the Pension List as would com pensate the public for the addition now made. Mr. D. GILBERT brought up several clauses, which were added to the Bill. Mr. CALCRAFT proposed a clause to compel Members of Parliament accepting pensions under the present Bill to •acate their seats. Mr. CANNING thought that the principle on which this proposition rested seas directly opposite to that on which Members accepting offices were sent back to their constituents. For in this case they would take pensions when giving up office, and removing from the influence of the Crown. Mr. CALCRA FT contended, that as the pensions granted by the Bill were ia lieu of Sinecure Offices, which Members could not accept without vacating their seats. it was proper that they should not be re ceived without a similar course being adopted. After some observations from Lord Musow, Mr. RODINSON, Sir J. NirrfrOßT, Sir M. W. RIDLIIY I Mrs HvsKlsoN, Mr. PONSONIY, the Hon. Mr. CUANCELLOIR of the EXCHECIVER, and Mr. GORDOIr i the House divided s—For the bringing up of the Clause 27—Against ,it 64—Majority against the Clause S 7. On being re-admitted. we found Lord MILTON opposing the principle of the Bill, and contending that if the Crown hod something which ought to be taken from her, she ought to receive no compensa tion, and still less an advantage over the public. He then expressed his intention of taking the sense of' the House on the measure. Mr. ROBINSON was surprized that the Honour able Gentlemen on the other side should have kept back their constitutional objections to this list stage of the Bill. As to any man looking towards this re mote pension as a bribe, he did not believe that there would be much competition for such a prize. It must be, as indeed it ought to be, a hopeless specu lation in a pecuniary point of view. Mr. GORDON differed with the Right Honour able Gentleman : he thought that the very limitation of the rewards would excite a keener competition— (Hear, hear, from the Opposition, and laughter rem the Ministerial benthes).—Any person at all acquainted' I wish ennimercial sp e cul a t io ns knew well, that a great priaa: or two awa k ene d a k eener a pp e ti t e th a n many ELECTION OF THE LORD MAYOR TO RkPRESEN I' THE CITY IN PARLIAMENT. Yesterday there was a Meeting of the Livery of the City of London. in Common-Hall, in pursuance of the King's Writ, for the election of a fit and proper person to represent the City in Parliament, in the room of HARVEY CHRISTIAN Coupe, Esq. who was first elect ed in 1796, and has sat in every Parliament since,' but who, in consequence of a protracted illness of three years, and in compliance with the wishes of his constituents, has now resigned that situation. The SHRRIFPS having been duly sworn to act im- ' partially, and the Act for the prevention of bribery and corruption having been read, Mr. WILLIAM SMITH, Member for Norwich, addressed the Hall to the following purport: GRNTLIMEN or THE LIVERY— It is now some time since I had the bonne, of addressing you, and I should not now have offered myself to your notice, bad I not been anxious to prevent the ne cessary business on this occasion from being intro duced to you by a stranger ; as for mys e lf, it is al most unnecessary, to state to you, that I have long been a merchant of this City, and am. under DIVINE PROVIDENCE, indebted to its commerce for all that possess or enjoy. 1 now, therefore, stand forward to state my opinion on a subject of much vital im portance, and to lament the illness of that Honour able Man who has been so many years your Repre sentative. I was in Parliament before that Gentle man entered those walls, and am happy to bear tes timony to the unabated patriotism with which he al ways distinguished himself. Gentlemen of the Livery, I this morning saw, and I regret it, a paragraph which indicated a wish of the writer to alEx a stigma on those who should come forward at this Meeting : as for myself, however, I hold Mr. Combe in the greatest respect, and if any person will propose a vote of thanks to that Gentleman, my hand shall be held up in his favour & but the appropriate reward is that which they have in part awarded, and in pro portion as I feel the loss of Mr. Alderman Combe, so in proportion do I feel the loss of his services. I fm sure, I feel sorry to say, that his loss was very inadequately supplied by the other Representatives of this City 2 they nut being, therefore, the appropriate Representatives of a very large body of the Livery. I always felt extremely sorry to observe that Mr. Combe -was cot in his place to fulfil his dutict to then:. Indeed I felt most des:rerss to meet spe c Member for the City in Parliament, with whom / could vote on many great and import ant necesions, The Livery have st sited with the greatest respe ct for now nearly three years, during which time N T . Combe has not been able to attend his duty in per. liament ; they have therefore now sliewn lihn nu dis. respect in wishing to have his place filled by one likely to attend to those dirties, which he has himself so utters and so ably fulfilled. I have :he hone„,. therefore, to propose your worthy Chief Maeisive c as a fit and proper pers' n to supply the vacarc: which has now occurred : you have had, for t ; .,., years, a sufficient knowledge of his character, t-, eri which to judge whether he is likely to fulfil :t nt duties in Parliament : during that time he has 1,r;: the high authority with which he is now iiiv ect , !. and he has never scrupled to fulfil those dur'... + c ; neatly. Ido not propose him, nor would I any mat, on the ground of his private character alone, but o f that of his public, in which capacity he is chiefly known to me. I do therefore most sincerely ficpe that those Gentlemen who wish to uphold the public welfare of their country, will support the worthy Chief Magistrate; and as for myself, I shall alvrvs support the interest of that party which Mr. Alder man Combe did espouse. This country has been, for more than a century divided into the two classes, the Whigs and the Tories, but the distinction is now fast sinking into oblivion. But if the name of Whig be the characteristic of the principle—Whither Go. vernment ought to be supported for the benefit of the Governors, or whether it ought to be supported for the benefit of the governed—l am a Whig ; for lam of opinion that the Government was instituted tor the benefit of the governed, by the People, for toe People : and for their good only ought any Goverhmeel so it tarried on. This is my short political creed; and I conclude, therefore, with proposing the Right Honour able the Lord Mayor as a fit and proper per son :o represent this City in Parliament." Mr. DAVIS, in seconding this motion, stated, that it was only because the public business re:hit:red it necessary some person should stand froward vs second this motion, that he was induced to O'er himself to their notice ; that it was fortunate for !,ra a Gentleman so able had stood forward to make tlhs motion, and to do justice to the intelligence, the public spirit, and the independence which had c%a racterized the cause of the Chief Magistrate. It was unnecessary for him to launch out into commend*. tion of any thing which the Lord Zslayor hail diine„ as lie should only weaken the impression which is that character he had already rade, and the opii.;).: with regard to which they bad already eiprewd ; he did, however, hope, that they would confer al honour, a' favour like themselves, by returning t: - . Right Honourable Matthew Wood to Parliamera.— (Loud andause). . Mr. HUNT now came forward, amidst the alter. nate hisses and applauses of the HA : he folded his arms, however, with apparent unconcern, crud told them he should wait their pleasure, as he had never yet been before them on any public occasion Without being beard. The tumult and disorder bete arose to a very great height, some person on the hustings having enquired 44 if he did not see the Ghost of Cashman," and he made many attempti to speak without success. However at last, by the aid of his Stentorian lungs, he con trived to render audible the following sentences: " 1 have the honour to move the Resolutions—a vote of thanks to Mr. Alderman Combe—(Great confusion). —I am the man who originally intended to propose the Lord Mayor, and as a Liveryman of the City if London, I claim a right to be beard—(Mines and sproar).—Gentlemen of the Livery, you have heard the speech of the Honourable Member for Norwich, and in that speech I most heartily concur ; and I have no hesitation in saying, that you will find the Gen tleman proposed to your notice, every way deserving of the honour intended him. The papers have said that there has been a plot for carrying it into-effecr, and that I was engaged in it, fr , r the purpose of re turning the Lord Mayor—(lliater).—Your late Re presentative has acted like a man of honour, upon the principles he always professed; but you have Members who dare to tell you, that they will nat support your Resolutions. You have now, however, a man before you, who will support your Resolutions at all hazards. For myself, lam attached to no party. lam not the slave of one faction, nor the partizan of another. I have to thank Mr. Smith fur the compliment he has paid me; and I am happy to say, that I cordially concur in what has fallen from him—( Low! cries of No, no ! and groan: and hisse:).— Yon will, I hope, now support a motion of thanks to Mr. Alderman Combe. Gentlemen, I am very riu , h obliged to you for having so patiently heard me."— ( Laughter and disapprotation). The Loan buroa then came forward: W " Gentlemen-4 inn sure it is quite unnecessary for me to say one word respecting my genet al prince. pies. You have witnessed my conduct on many trying occasions, and I now come forward to claim your support in a higher station ; higher I say, wily because I may bare it in my power more effectually to stevort your interests. Gentlemen of the Livery. you shall never find-Me give a vote except in support of public liberty, and if lever come back to you atter having given a v•ite contrary to your interest, let me be rejected--( Universal aforabatian.) " I say, Gentlemen, it I fled myself prevented by sickness from attending my duty, or am in nate as to diff::•r in opinion with my Constituents, I will present myself before you and resign my charp' into your hands. It has been said that I have acted against Alderman Combe, but I disclaim every Over of the kind. I have always acted with him, and 11;i: greatest cordiality has ever subsisted between us. know that he wished to resign two ' , eats age, 31:1 was only prevented by the wishes and advice of lie , friends. I am, however, anxious to vindicate tryseA from the charge el having been engaged in iorminz ' the Resolution of this Hall, as a consequence rf whiCh that Gentleman resigned. After having acted with him in unison at all times, is it surprising that his friends should be my friends ? Gentlemen, I Lase hitherto in my office been anxious to fulfil tey duties for the benefit of my fellow-citizens; it ye•l send me to Parliament, you will soon have an °pre , - tunny of seeing whether I continue to fulfil that duty."—His Lordship concluded amidst thunders ut applause. Ms. A lderman Hernave then came forward =Olt considerable disapprobation : " Gcatlemen of the Livery—l should net small ones--(l7ear.)—'Phis Bill would, fa the first time, m-ke politics a trade; circurnstence ti.e more to be regretted at a lime wl.en the public were not diirsed to look with peculiar favour on otfici.l men of whatever party. As to the argument about the necessity of remunerating men who lett lucrative pro.- lessions, he conceived that it would be better if such persons remained in their profession, it gain was their object, and if they could not be contented with the higher honour of being called to assist the Sovereign with advice for the benefit of the people. Much nad been said about the services rendered to the country by the labours of Ministers. (Hear, hear.) — For his own part, he thought that instances might arise when Ministers might do mach more good by resigning than by keeping their places. But the paltry temptations of the present bill would tend to keep Ministers in till they had carried their pension by length of service. Tints it was possible to imagine (he was of course merely putting a supposed case), that at some future time there might be serious divi sions in the Cabinet on some question of even vital importance, and that some particular Minister might be subjected to some disagreeable slight on that AC. count ; and such a man might by thepresent bill be induced to cling to the office which he wosild other wise reject. He might say, ,* Well, this is very un ip:easant : but let me wait a little longer, and then I shall have a pension to console these indignities.— Meantime, let " bear and forbear" be my maxim : Queried nit : ngteranda *antis fortanaferende ed. Mr. HAMMERSLEY asked whether the power of Parliament was at an end, since it had been said that the Crown would never have bren persuaded to g ve up Sinecure Offices without an indemnification ? blight not the House have enforced the abolition of unnecessary offices ? After a few words from Sir Roberti. HERON, the House divided on the question that the Report be brought up :—For the bringing up '‘''u—Against it 24—Majmity 46. The Report was accordingly brought up. LOAD COLCHESTER. _ _ The Report of the Committee on Lord Colchester's Annuity was also brought up ; the Resolutions were agreed to, And a Bill ordered accordingly. SUPPLIU. Mr. BROCDEN brought up the Report of the Committee of Supply on the Ordnance Estimates. After some cbservations from General Fr:am - sum and Mr. FaatirciAND Levers, who hoped that the recommendations of the Committee of Finance would be attended to, at the same time that he hcknow. 'edged that-the present Board of Ordnance had done much of its own accord to rectify abuses. He wished that in future no work should be undertaken without the controul of the superintending Committee of Fi. nance and a •ote of that House. Some regulation would also be most particularly required' in that branch called the Unprosided Service, in which large debts had accumulated. Mr. R. WARD said, that the Memoir furnished by . the Board of Ordnance to the Committee of Fi. mance was to be considered as a pledge of what were the intentions of the Board of Ordnance. He hoped that thisMemoirwould be laid before the House. Lord MILTON noticed with reprobation the prac tice of applying the money voted by the House to purposes for which it was not destined by Parliament. He did not blame the present Board of Ordnance for this, but it certainly had been done. Mr. W. SMITH was not satisfied with the mere, plods* of the Board of Ordnance. as to complying with• the recommendations of the Finance Committee. He thought the House should pass a Resolution on the subject. Mr. "I'REMAYNE wished to know whether it was intended to continue the works at Plymouth ? Mr. WARD said, that with respect to the lines at Plymouth, it was not intended to continue them on the scale of the original Estimates. All that was in• tended was to join the old and the new lines by a com mon wall.—The Resolutions were then agreed to, and Bills ordered accordingly. The House adjourned at One o'clock this morning.