Star. — London, England, 1803-12-13 00:00:00

Pr PARLIAMENTAR r PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF LORDS, MONDAY, DEC. VI,. The Loan CHANCELLOR prefented a petition from' Mr. Allen Nl•Leod, late Editor of the Albion, now a prifoner in Newgate, praying for the remiffion of the fine of tool. impofed upon him in the year ttior, for the breach of their Lordfhips' privileges.—The petition was ordered to lie on the table. A number of Bills, particularized in our former reports, were forwarded in their refpedive Rages.— Among there were the Expiring Laws Bill, and the Curates Relief Bill, which were read a fecond time. With refped to the former, Lord SUFFOLK exprefftcl a defire to be informed, whether two annuities, io a conliderable amount, granted in the reign of t:),L seen Anne, and continued by this Bill, which would fall •in next year, were to go, after that period, to the Confolidated Fund, or to what other purpofe they were to be appropriated? With regard to the latter, he hoped that the relief fo juftly granted to the poorer clergy would be properly applied. He had lately, he laid, received a number of lettere from inch perfons, complaining that they were obliged to do duty for a much fmaller allowance than the fum fpe cified in former Ads. Lord HAWKESEURY obferved, with regard to the annuities alluded to, that when the time came of their falling in they would certainly eonftitute part of the difpofable refources of Parliament. Lord HAWRISBURY then moved the fccond read- ing of the Ira Habeas Corpus Sufpenfion Bill, and as he thould have to make a fimilar motion as to the Martial Law Bill, the arguments which he Should have to adduce in fupport of the, former, he wilhed to be regarded as equally applicable to the latter.— He admitted that the power given by there meafures Should be delegated only in a cafe of the ftrongert neceffity, and, when fo given, that they Should not be exercited but under the fanaion of a limiter ur gency. That Inch a neceffity now exitted his Lotd 'hip inferred from the rebellion of 1798, and from the continued fpirit of ditaffeltion in a certain clafs of the population of Ireland, from that period, until it again broke into open infurreCtion on the 23d of July. That Minifters were aauated by the inoft rigid attention to the fecond part of his potation, he contended to be evident from the faa that martial , law had been retorted to in one inftance only, and that in every other cafe the confpirators of the 23d of July had been tried with the mock ferupulous re fpea to the ordinary forms ofjuflice. The power of which_Government_now demanded the continuance i was effentially necefary to the fupprerson of rebel. lion; perhaps the very knowledge that fuch a power Was yelled in them might prevent the neceffity of ex ercifing it. Lord SUFFOLE affented to the urgency of the ma tures stow propofed, but conceived that there never could be any tranquillity in lieland until there was a complete redrefs of its grievances. He thought that following the advice given by the greateaVanel viten (he would not with the Poet fay, the meaneft) of man kind, Lord Bacon, a commifEon &mild be appointed for the fpccific pur pofe of enquiring on the fpot into the alledged grievances. Lord Kivu thought there ought to have been a Committee of Enquiry into the Rate of Ireland,before the Noble Secretary of State propoted to fufpend the Habeas Corpus AS, and to coati martial law. He admitted that Minifters hail exercifed their authority with every degree of lenity, and he expeSed they would continue to do fo. With this idea, he mull fuppofe that fuch perfons as had been ; F at in cußody from this country to Ireland, had been apprehended for offences attually committed there ; otherwife the feadiug of them would conflitute an abufe of the powers confided by there Ass. The Marquis of Stico, in riling to give his hearty atTent to the Bills, and to exprefs his gratitude to his Majefty's Miniflers for introducing them, took an op portunity of alluding to the obtervation of a Noble Lord (Lord Suffolk), that it had been repeatedly at forted in that Houfe, during the greater part of fall Sefton, that tranquillity was completely rebored in that part of the United Kingdom. The Noble Mar quis difavowed that any tech declaration was ever made by him., He well knew that there was a fource of Secret and petty treafon in a confiderable part of the population of that country, ready to break out when the vigilance of Government fhnuld relax, and oppor tunity flsould offer. He perfectly agreed with the Noble Secretary of State, in his ideas of the charafler and quality of the lag infurreSion ; it bore all the features of the old parent rebellion, and was fcarccly t o be diflinguithed from it. Lord Gearviss.a argued that no Parliamentary ground had been Rated for their I.ordiltips' amt.— His Majefty's fpeech Rated that tranquillity had b' en rebored in Ireland. The urgency, therefore, under • hid' Mini tiers were inverted with xtraordinary powers, mull be fuppofed to be at an end, unlefs tome new Gifts were brought forward in j unification of their continuance. He could have wi lbed that the Noble Secretary had argued the two Bills Separately, as he could eafily conceive that there might be good ma ims for fufpending the Habeas Corpus, which could not bear out the expediency of enaiting Martial Law. In fatt, the merit affumed by the Noble Secretary of the late traitors having been tried by the Civil Courts, clearly proved that the country was not in tech a Hate as that its tranquillity could be inland by no thing !bort of Martial Law. Such was his view as a Menthe, of Parliament, though as a private indivi (Nal, fpeaking from his own knowledge, he mutt ad sr‘.t the neceffity of haring lecoorfe to a remedy be yond the ordinary forms of law. Placed, therefore, by the want of all informatibn on the part of Mini sters, in the fituation of voting, if he thould at all vote. for the mestere, contrary to the &Sates of his Parliamentary duty,or of incurring, by voting against, it, the odium of wining to deprive his Majerly of powers, perhap. necefiiry for the floppretTion of re beilion. he Should *basin from giving nts atient ur Wiest to the quellion. The Earl of Littler, a corroborated the argu ments of the Secict-ay of mate, and fuid, that the loyal inhabitants of Ireland would have reafon to execrate the misfire of the Union. if they were not prittetted at this crifis, by the operation of theft two Bills. His I.ordiltip took an opportunity of coned ir.g an error which bad wine forth. imputing to him ,:xpretrions in that Houk unfavourable to the lop iit r of the Catholic interell. His Lordthip belie the mO4 iPtisilisitd lativage, to the' eondua and patriotifm of that refpettabYe and opu lent clafs of men, and concluded with giving his molt cordial fupport to both the Mills. ' The LORD Cneacct.Lott combated with his ufual energy and ability the arguments of Lord Grenville, and gave his heaity concurrence to the Bills, in the refponfibility of which he would as glad ly take his (hare, as he did in all the meafures of the fame kind which had preceded them during the laft war. His Lordfhip paid force jell merited encomi ums to the criminal jurifprudence of Ireland, and fpoke in terms of the warmea panegryic on the im partiality of the juroys, the dignified moderation and patience of the Judges, and the induftry and humanity of the Law Officers of the Crown. Lord DARNLEY rofe, and alluding to the infur redion of the 23d July, afferted, that the Govern ment of Ireland was furprifed. He condemned, in very (iron language, the difmiffal of the Comman der in C of the Forces in that country. His d Lord(hip affertions were controverted by Lord HODAIL r. who maintained that the Govern ment was not furprifed, that the Commander of the Forces. and the Sitperintendant of the Police l were acquainted with the projelted riling , and that the Hon. O ffi cer alluded to had not been clifinifed, but bad folicited his rccal. After a few words in explanation, between the Lords Hobart, Limerick, and Darnley, the motion, on the fecond reading of the bill, was put, when the Contents carried it. Several bills then went through the Committee, into which the Houfe refolved itself. Their Lordships immediately afterwards adjourned till to-morrow. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. CORRY prefented various kith Accounts; which were or dered to lie on the 'ratite. Mr. W. DUNDAS informed the Houfe of his intention to with draw the notice he had given, refrottlog the Militia Laws in Scot land, till after the reeds. Mr. CORRY gave notice, that he fhoold move for the Fillmorn of the linen Board in Ireland, on Wedookali in the Committee of Supply. 1 .. _ ♦RMY FSTIMATtS. Mr. Hoaitouss was about to bring up the Report of the Supply on the Army Ellimates, when Colonel Caawroan role, and obferved, that the Committee was In long occupied on this fubjea as Friday night, and fuch unparalleled talents difplayed, that he did not think it neceffary for him to trouble the Houfe at that time, but begged leave now to offer' a few fuggeflions, which he deemed highly reqnifite, for the pedaling our meafures of defence. The fire which he alluded to, was the eflablilhasent of a Grand Military Council, compofed of Officers dillinguifhed alike for their experience and Minium, whole co-operative efforts would give a vigour and promptitude to the war department, hitherto un known. He was aware this might be refilled, on the principle that it re&aed on the illuerious Perfonage who prefided over that department, but he expreffed the honell genuine diEtates of his heart , carelefs of ' what might individually refult; thofe fentiments were, that hisßoyal Highnefs was unequal to the important office ; not from any perfonal deficiency, nor any negligence ; on the contrary, he applied, with an affiduity truly laudable ; but, becaufe every MD was unequal to it—it Will an Herculean labour fir any 'individual. It might again be alledged, thatthough there was not nominally a Military Council, yet there ezifted one virtually, 'ince the officers on the fiat formed one, and were competent to give their ad vice to his Royal Highnefs, bat he contended, this too was liable to exception, the current bufinefs en rolling all their attention, and precluded their in velligating radically the plans which might be pre rented ; he perfonally knew many of them, and en tertained the highelt veneration for their military talents. He therefore carnally recommended the forming a Council, not of controul, bat one for the ex pref . ' and only purple of confider ing various plans which might be prefented, and how they were appli. cable to public emolument. This Council would us. turally have his Royal Highnefs for its head, and in clude the Ordnance Department. Thus a recom mendation from fuch a combination of talents could not fail of carrying the greatell weight, and operat ing in a manner highly conducive to the benefit of the State. Some had grid, that our military affairs were well condated—eonduded with difcretion and v giur ; but this he firongly denied. Here the Hon. Member took a retrofpeaive view of the conduit of Miuiflers from the fignature of the Treaty of Amiens to the prefent period, cenfuring the dangerous con fidence bliniller. had fuffered themfelves to be lulled into, and °braving, that if even the intention of France had been pacific, it was incumbent on them to maintain a large peace ellablifhment ; but how much more to was it, when France early indicated the had not forgotten her implacable hatred to this country ; that aggretfinn after aggreflion was com mitted, and that the had plainly evinced her intend= wa. only to vilify, degrade, and infult England.— He had no perronal enmity againft the Miniiiry ; but he was compelled to fay he was afhamed of their con duet. They knew the refolution of the Fire Conful ' meafures to repel the threatened attack. He ix, to invade this country, but had not tak e n ade qu ate k e in terms of eulogy of the Martell° towers, whi .he (aid, were far preferable to low batteries, and inca pable of being donned ; and expatiated on the advan tages likely to emanate from throwing up numerous , wiirks—a fyilem highly eßeemed in warfare, r pe• raring wren ti rely as well as defenfivelband eminently calculated to retard the progrefs of an enemy. He reprobated die Bill's entitling the Volunteers to ex emption. and contended it was a great impediment to the recruiting of the Militia and Army of Referee, and a rneafure neither expeeed by the Volunteers, or originally intended by the Legiflature. It alto gave a dubious charatter to thole who came forward vo luntarily; for it was bard to fay. whether they were impelled tor patriotifm, or by a more prudent deem 1 to efcapc the operation of the Militia and Army of Relieve ; he thought this the only objetlion to the I Volunteering (yams. The neat material point to which be called the attention of the Houle was, the railing large bodies of Pioneers,—own who greatly facilitated the movements of osr army, and were juely deemed. by &Ural Officers, the moll powerful auxiliaries. Nor could be omit mentioning the ne. caftity and general nfe of men armed with pikes, little difcipline being neceffary for rendering thesis formida hi:. and when only in divifions their charge would be il p-fillible. NI. Rosa Aid a it was cvidcat that the turn voted for the Volunteers was infufficient far, taleulatingl on the allowances made in the old eftahlifhment, the Fefentium for the appropriation of the Volunteers would amount to r. 000.0001. the deficit would there. fore be confiderable. I-re next alluded to the fami lies of Volunteers : there was, in the 95th fedion of the old Aft, a claufe, enading that their families fhould be provided for in the fame manner as that of the Militia ; nor could there be any difference of opi nion with regard to the propriety of allowing thii, when the corps are called out for the purpofe of per feeling them in their difcipline, fince the inconve. nience fullained by them and their families thereby. is equivalent to that which would be incurred by their being called out into adual fervice. He found this very circuraflance to profs peculiarly heavy on a certain corps, who. when called upon, acquiefeed with the utmofl chearfulnefs and alacrity, and were eager to demon(lrate their zeal and loyalty ; but, when the nature of the fervice was communicated. they unanimoufly declared it was impoffible to leave their homes, without entailing ruin on themfelves and families. He thought that tome allowance for the families of thole who might be called on, would have a very beneficial effed, and render them en thutiallic in their country's carefe. Too much could not be laid of the noble fpirit which animated the Volunteers : he knew one infiance, where 294 nut of 360 marched into an adjacent county. generoufly fa• crificing their individual concerns ra contribute to the good of the State. He walled he knew, there fore, if it was the intention of Government to provide for them when called out; and could not help feeling a lhlicitude, that if it was not in the power of Go vernment to remunerate, they (horrid at leaf' be in demnified. The Hon. Member declared it as his opi• nion, that they might, when perk& in their difci, pline. be permitted to return home for two or three I days in the week, which would confiderably diminifh the expence. He Paid. there was aot a part of our coafi but what the French Government was well ac. 1 quainted with ; this was attributable to the negli gence, fome time fince prevalent in our ports, which l luffered the emiffaries of that Government to efcape. 1 He, hionfelf, had witneffed an ad of this kind. but acknowledged the vigilance which at prefent esifted. The Hon. Member declared, that he had heard it as the opinion of Come of the belt officers, that the Vo lunteers were as likely to render effedual fervice as the Regulars. He had leen, in the thort fpaceof five 1 1 days, 14,000 collected from a confiderable difiance Ito form in battalions, and he did not doubt but the fame alacrity would be evinced at the approach of an enemy. He was convinced that the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Yorke) was one who would rather flimulate than &pref. the Volunteers; and he was convinced that, aided by fo powerful a force as goo armed vetch, they would render this iftand impreg nable. Mr. Secretary Velma obferved, that every poffible regulation had taken place, and that orders bad been given to the Receivers General, to pay fuch charges as the Volunteers, when called into aanal fume, were entitled to, for the fupport of their families. Should it, however, appear to the Houfe, that Int ther meafures were neceffary for the relief of there families, no difficulty could prefent itfelf to the bring. ing in, and adoption of a clank, which might quiet every objection, on a fubjea of fo much importance, to aen who had voluntarily Rood forward in defence of their country. Mr. Pore Paid, the only queßion in the lag cafe was, whether the allowance was properly fecured, and at all times ready to be iffued? but what he role prin cipally to (peak to was, the miltonception that keen ed to prevail relative to Come former obfervations df his upon the prefent rubjeCt. He was reprefented to have raid, or to have propored the companies to be colleted into battalions, to each of which a regular Field Officer was to be attached. From this it was inferred, that his difpofition was, that officers from the line mould come to take the command of other' officers appointed by their own choice. He certainly never meant any fuch thing, he prvoted regular offi cers to be tent to the affiltance of the Commanders of battalions ; and that theta Field Officers or Adjutants fhould be taken front Come branch of the regular ler. vice. This, he believed, would be the wills of the generality, if not of all the Commanders themfelves, at leaß he could fay fo much for birafelf, and thole others with whoa he had the opportunity of conver ling in the Dias ift where he was Rationed. He and they may rarely fpeak for themfelves, without any difparagement to thole whore fuperior talents or expe rience may infpire them with greaterconfidence. All he required was, that this alliaance °mold be afforded to thole who applied for it, without by any means impofing it upon fuch as may think they did not want it. It w as not proper that a Field Officer or Adjutant fhould be attached to every corps, but to every battalion of moo or even goo men, and for ago men a Serjeant. Major. The etre& of this mature he thought would be to enable the Volunteer Commanders to difcharge their duty more to their own fatisfaaion, though he mated that at any rate they would difcharge it as well as they could, and with greater advantage to the Public. He would leave it to others to tonfult the willies of the Commanders of Corps upon this relic& and to ad upon it as they thought proper ; it was (efficient for him to have thrown it out, and in doing fo he had difcharged his duty without being deterred from it by any tat& notions of (economy, or any fear of its unpripnlarity. Refpeaing what may be eapetted from the Volunteer force, he melt Rate it as his confident opinion, that were they commanded by well (elected and disciplined Officers. and Amain tended by Generals, who would rather afford them encouragement and applairfe, than deprefs their energies and fink them in their own opinion by inju. rious companions with vete r an tr oo p s , they would, when occafinn came, dim ihemftives equal to the re gular regiment,. He could not, hoseever, help ob. serving, that as it was inspoffilile to conceive that any Englishman would Lot boldly face the enemy is hen. ever he appeared, if the Volunteers were meant to do no more, if they were only intended to at as flanking companies, if they were to du no more Gran what with their native 1014 and courage they could have done before, the ryliern bad been carried too far, and much pains and trouble had been thrown away. It was in his mint hot e nough that they knew how to march, and fiic with a tolerable aim; it was much more material tl , at they mould have instruaion which fliluld enable Clem to al in the day of battle, not merely as a pike of machinery, but with a cele rity, cies:tiers, s ,tctiflon, which would E:ve a full el e & to a ll their bpetottontt, and a tegtdarii y z., , 'their movements. He lamented that they lhoola , reprefented, what he lhould be rill einely lorry to :In, them in reality, no better than a let of pear - arts. u., the contra. y, let them improve . a .i nd: r u a ke c t c h m e rt li d e e i r t a u bhli they can of the interval that rna y yet be left them; ai:.! even though a peace Ifautild t;soii take place, which, however, he had little hope time, let them go on progrtiiii-ely improving fr•rm year to year, lo that when the implacable enemy may think himfelf again prepared to attempt our de. firuaion, he ghould have to meet a brave and du. t. plined forceable in every refpetrt to rival the regular! tit punilhing his audacity. All thee exertion►, to be fure, would be idle and ufelefs, if at lad they could not be brought to be any better Oran peafants l but the truth was in refped to the volunteer force, that they had attained a great deal more than many perffint feemed to be difpofed to give them cre,lit for, and not altogether as much as our linguine peopl e were willing to imagine. Mr. Secretary YOR Kt did not deny the advantage; which would arife from attaching Field Officers the Volunteer Corps, but the mea fure a - 'peared to him difficult in its attainment. Of the Volunteer force, there was fo large a number of battalions, that a futficient number of Field Officers could not ;n found ; and it would, he conceived, be very impolitic to weaken the regular force by taking them from Cie line. He had alio Come doubts with refpe& to the propriety of the fuggeflion, on the ground of expence, for it would be necelfary, in the ultimate view of Ore cafe, to place them on half pay at the time of peace. —H e thought, however, there was no necetlity fur coming to a decition on the meafure at prefent, as the Hotife was called upon to give a vote only on ay. count for the eilimate of the Volunteer fervice. confefred, that he had thrown out but mere doubts, and that fuch as they were, they might at all times be taken into confideration. Mr. PITT replied, that the opportunity of difinf. fing them would prefent ;dell when the Rcfolutit.n refpeding that part of the ellimates came to be read. Mr. CUILWEN was of opinion, that the eapence in curred by the Volunteers was not an object which caned for confederation. With refped to the diffieultr of procuring Field Officers, he had to fuggeil, that if an Adjutant, with the brevet rank of Captain, were to command all the Captains in each Corps, material benefits would be communicated to the fyilem. The queilion was certainly of confiderable importance ; he fhould not prefs the confederation of it at prefent. but he hoped that Minillers would bring forward Come general plan of arrangement, calculated to en force and arengthen the volunteer forceof the country. The Report was then brought up, and the Refolu. tions read a firll time. Upon the fecond reading of the full Refolution, relative to the eflimate for the regular military eftabliffiment of t 29,000 men, Mr. Pirr laid, he viewed with great fatibradien the amount of the force for whichrovifion was to be made ; but he wilhed to be info p rmed how the at!ual deficiency in the army for general ferrite, and the Army of Referve, was to be made up? Lord CASTLIRLAGN Rated, that out of a force of tBo,ooo men, there were 84,000 Militia , and 96,000 Regulars, and that the deficiency in the Army of Referve, which might be taken at s 4 or ss,ooo men, there was every lull hope of filling up, were the country, feeling the importance of the addition, to feu its fhoulders earnefily to the work. Out of 96,000 men, there were 69,000 liable to general fervice ; and as to the deficiencies, he had the befk grounds to think they would be fhortly fupplied. Mr. Pirr wiffied to afcertain the amount of the *dual force, and the amount of the force to be vot. ed. His Noble Friend had mentioned 96,000 men, which he took for the regular army, not including commiffioned and non-commiffioned officers, who according to the ufual proportion, might be elii. mated at io,ooo men. Thus there would Rill be a deficiency of 23,000 men. His great anxiety was to know the mad grounds on which hopes were enter. tained of having the whole of the ellimate of t amoo ' men completed . - Lord Casrtraaaom eaplained ; and after a few obfervations from Mr. PITT, Mr. YORK, Mr. BILACCIL and Mr. Ft; ttsa, the fir a Refolution was read a fa coed time and agreed to. When the Relolution refpaing the elllmate for the Volunteer Corps was about to be read a tavola time. Mr. Pier rofe for the purpofe of prang on the attention of the Honfe the tneafures he had fug. relative to Field Offtce►s and Adjutants, and expreffed his hope to be clearly uncles-Rood, that he meant they lbould be carried into effeet only in thole battalion, whirl► applied for them. With regard :o any unpopularity among the Volunteer Corps. it was fufficient for him to obferve, that any regulation could never be unpopular among thole who &add apply for it thernfelces. He Was not defirous that the officer, to be fo attached lhould be alto gether compofed of Field Officers in actual fervid but of thofe who, tl gh not of that rank. were of a Rending which entitled them to it. He wilhed to know, whether a battalion of two or 7so men, with two Lienterunt•Colonels and too Majors, could not very well fpare the &left Captain for the ler. vice to which he bad called the attention of the Howe ? The only coofequence was, that by the gradation of rank and fuccelEve promotion, these would be ooe Lieutenant lefs: bot if Field OS cers in a proportionate number could not be found in the regular army, they might be taken from thole who had retired, and frr.m thoti - been ii. the Ealt India ferrite An indeed, been thrown out, that the al would excite difconteat among the V. the introduaien of there Meet,: but t! was eaily removed I # The answer arm An arrange meat . denred by th,n,i c Ives, upon that ground alone he Proposed it, cot be loppofed to excite difentocr.t among . tl general utility of the plan WAS undensal Ihnedd not he given op upon light grog Right Hon. Gcni;eman (Mr. Youta) ach he felt the want of Field Officers in the Mi (lively, as the fincc►ity of that &dentition et doubted. lie ouglAt Rill more to fah the wai in the Vt , liinteer C.orps. Wh,t was the the Right li.m. Gentleman ? What ufe di of cipe"tielice ? He did nt.:do better Fir becalife he had dnne ill for the Mili certainly wac w.t a proper tire to make of figure olio* is had arijuircd. Mr. Pins fe who had 3 idea had. If rangemetst lolunteers the übjettifia •at plain.— . for k aS :mild barely them. The able. and it iota& The isnitted the ; and could not be rant of them e coadva did be make • the Valeta- litia. That of the cape- r here nw