Star. — London, England, 1808-01-22 00:00:00

could form a judgment. It was his belief that, time of Lord Gambier's arrival, the Danish A was in no farther state of preparation than it hed seen for a considerable length of time previously.— Cereainly he did not wish the House to take his belief tthority ; but it was necessary that the contrary l be shewa. If, however, there were no just grounds for believing the hostile intention—if no par ' preparations of the navy were making—if the I was away from Zealand, and in Holstein, and was the case in the King's speech, the original tdsareabandoned, surely something was required 7 of proof; to justify the measures of Ministers. writers cn the law of nations had laid down in oveytibly the necessity of an extreme case to jus such a measure. It was allowed that you might neutrals, seize their property, and occupy their :ory, if you had proofs that their possessions were t to be used against you by their consent, to de your mast valuable interests. But until those none had attempted to justify such harsh, cruel, ttraordatary proceedings, but with the utmost Less of limitation. Now, there might be proofs I, of which he could know nothing, which manifest the designs of Denmark and our own 7. All he meant to say was, that this measure irefessedly carried iato effect with great con aid deep regret ; but as far as he could at pre- Te, with such means of information as were at it afforded him, totally without proof ; there did ippear any reasonable presumption or probabi tothing but a bare possibility. On these grounds ist have acted against all written and received -ity, and contrary to the acknowledged princi )f universal and immutable justice. You say :e would have had that fleet, and Denmark would given it up to France. Did Denmark manifest I- conduct such an intention? Could she have me al it by having Zealand unprotected, and sending :my into Holstein ? But then it was said that amerk could not resist those mighty French armies ideated Austria tied Russia, and had ovcrt:irned :enquered Prussia ! Then again it was presumed, :vhatever may be said of the Danish intentions, lossession of Heletein by a French force must been followed immediately by the possession of nd ! Upon what principles of military science, • geographical knowledge, was this monstrous iniption thunded ? No---et could not be the wish •inisters, for they upbraided Denmark with her Laving aecepted their offers of negotiation and and twar assistance to defend Zealand in a case against France ! They thought then, that their '20,000 or 30,000 men, in addition to the a! forces, they could defend Zealand against ice, or they meant nothing. What must a re ing man imagine of the minds of such persons, could think and act in such a manner ? Did they we that .Zealand is an Island, and that there are sea-passages letwcen that island and the main ; ene of them of six miles in breadth, where the -ems are pretty strong ; but the other of not less sixteen English miles, that is to say, only five :s less than the Straits between France and Dover? ich a diseance by water were ineffectual to secure land disposed to resist, and occupied by a supe force, what could they say to ties argument : stands between France and England ? But then T might be a march over the ice ! What would aid of military operations over sixteen miles -oxen sea, ihr the purpose of besieging Copenha ; of the establishment of magazines and other mi ar erovisions necessary for such an undertaking ! I if, in the uncertainty of the weather, this be ing force were locked up in Zealand, the waters a an the force blockaded, a fortunate occurrence !ht take place ; but what was it, beyond a bare pos. such as a wild imagination might be sup :d to reckon on ? But to make an assertion out ich materials, and to publish it in the name of the :reign, was almost beyond belief. He thought there did appear in the minds of the Danes a iosition to resist the hostility of France. There aired no reason for attacking her by force ()farms, any probability of an unfair influence fromßussia. wish could he have to undervalue Denmark con ;d into an enemy ; but he thought there were rocans in our power of averting that imputed tin, the means of preventing which all seemed to k of with so much regret, and as being justifiable by a hard necessity, of which no sort of proof' before Parliament. He milsht be told that in he said, he spoke without sefficient grounds the grounds th!tt were before him, he was con d that all the world, that the hearts and consci of :ill who heard him, were against it. Other nds, he would repeat, there might be. Let Mi rs bring them forward; if not, let Parliament for them. He was not ignorant of equivocal in:stances in the conduct of Denmark ; but they wide indeed from plans of settled hostility, such )uld authorize the slightest part of the conduct of sters. The situation of Denmark was extremely :al—it was natural that she should wish to pre her neutrality—she had occasionally adopted a lact favourable to the French or to the British ests ; and each had in turn remonstrated. Ano mode of justification had been used—from paral sses on the enemy's part ; but this argued little i ;hose who used it. One immoral act could not ;1:: another. • If we act wrongly, let us suffer the I thy ; but do not let us disgrace ourselves by Jiag the precedent of those against whose sills /:1C: we declaim, ' My Lards, I hope we are not to be again told our conduct us Denmark was just because the :my acted in the same manner to other powers. In sttack ueon Turkey we acted in conjitnction with is ; and the Officers who commanded there had • orders merely to go the letagds of obtaining the Invent of the Turkish treaties with Russia: if atsaek was TM it on this occasion, it was not au ised by hlinisse-s. I rejoice, n:y Lords, that th'e !ch does not f:ritlt the door against negotiations ie:tee, 'Ten an hen's-arable basis. Peace, my Lord, nerd desirable, hut to this sentiment there is one :etien through. eut the emintry, ramely, that Eng ' :tr.ci l'a:esce :Ilene were to negotiate on a footing . astalita.- I ; - tperave highly; My Lerds, of the pa= i s ;tad nclsle line el' cenduct . I,y a Noble ea the representative or a most eateasive and po rts county (Lord Milton) • his language censtisatests, On the suialeet•Or peace, was 'not greet and inagnaftlehtiria; 'tsar just and prn. Who 1s there who can deny that peace is desirable ?. Who is there to-day who looks, round him and sees all Europe joined against us In univer sal war, can look without horror upon the idea of a rupture with America? On the subject of peti tioning for peace I have to observe, that although I approve highly of the exercise of this valuable constitutional right, yet I disapprove of it on such an occasion, because these petitions may convey to the enemy exaggerated accounts of distress, and I therefore concur in the opinion of the Noble Lord before alluded to. I hope, however, that no counte nance is given, either in or out of Parliament, to the idea that no peace can be made ; nor is it correct to say that a basis must be agreed upon before Negocia tion. My Lords, in nine out of ten negotiations, no l , basis has ever been admitted so early. It is equally incorrect, my Lords, to refuse a mediator until we have proofs of his impartiality. A mediator is not an umpire ; the mediation of Powers is often accepted, who it is often known will join one of the parties in the event of the Negotiation being broken off. My Lords, I cannot consider the emigration to the Brazils as being fraught with the advantages to this country held out by Ministers. We read in Sir Geo. Staunton's account of the Chinese Embassy, that he always found the shops in Rio Janeiro glutted with British commodities, brought them by neutrals at a cheaper rate than by British vessels. How then will our commerce revive by this boasted emigration ?" His Lordship defended the conduct of his late colleagues respecting America, and concluded a most animated and impressive speech, by a warm appeal to the House on the subject of Ireland— ,, Let us consider the question of arming the Irish nation in their own defence" his Lordship said, as brothers, and not as Legislators. Let us not heap upon them conces f ! sions when it is too late : let us not drive a few nails i into the sheathing of the vessel, while her timbers are starting from stern to stern."—( Hear ! hear ! hear ! ) Lord HAWKESBURY defended the attack on Copenhagen. They could not state their authority, nor lay t heir information upon the table, from obvious motives ; but they had information that justified their proceeding. He enumerated the several heads of in formation. First, they learned that there were secret engagements at the Treaty of Tilsit ; and that the view of the parties was to confederate all the powers of Europe, and particularly to engage or seize on the fleets of Denmark and Portngal to annoy this country. They heard this from their public Ministers then abroad.—They heard it from their faithful ally, Por tugal. They also received information of the hostile intentions of Denmark from a quarter to which they had often been indebted for the first knowledge of the designs of Bonaparte ' • from, or rather through the disaffected in Ireland. They learned that Ireland was to be attacked from two points—Lisbon and Copen hagen ; and they never found the information of these persons, however they came by it, false. And, finally, they had a confidential communication, that in the council of the highest authorities in Copenhagen, the Imatter was discussed, whether, on an option being put to them, that they should join either England or France, an option which they understood was to be put to them, they resolved that they would join France. Having learnt this, Ministers would have been traitors if they had not taken steps to secure the fleet. The Noble Lord then went over the several other topics of Lord Grenville's speech—Portugal, America, the Orders in Council, and the State of Ireland. On the two last he declined saying much. The one would come regularly before them on a fu ture day, and the less that was said of the other the better. Earl BUCKINGHAMSHIRE explained the measure of our sending a force to Madeira, in 1800, which had been alluded to by Lord Hawkesbury, as similar in principle to that of seizing the Danish fleet. And he jeined with Lord Viscount Sidmouth, in ex pressing his disapprobation of that measure as left un explained. The Earl of LAUDERDALE answered Lord llawkesbury in a speech of considerable length—and strongly urged the Constitutional necessity of a Bill of Indemnity for the Orders of Council. Lord MULGRAVE said, that neither at the time of rejecting the Russian mediation, nor at this mo ment, had Government an v copy of the secret articles of the treaty of Tilsit. (loud cries of Hear! hear ! from the Opposititm.) They were in possession of secret projects (hear ! hear !), but could only' assert, not ad duce proof of their nature. The Amendment, and another Amendment by Lord Grenville, declaratory of the opinion of the House, that it would neither be respectful to his Ma jesty, nor becoming the dignity of the House, to give an opinion as to the propriety of rejecting the Russian mediation, till the papers relative to that question were before the House—were both negatived without a division. The Address was then agreed to, and ordered to be presented by the Lords with white staves. ' Adjourned at three o'clock this morning, till Wed nesday. HOUSE OF COMMONS. The House was summoned to the House of Peers to hear hi s i Majesty's speech. The SPEAKER informed the House that he had, during the recess, issued new writs for the Boroughs of Beaumaris and Ta vistock, and for the city of Lincoln ; as also for the Irish Coun ties of Monaghan and DonnegaL New writs were moved for and ordered for the Boroughs of Michael, Stamford, and Clithero. Mr. Pot -o thy, Mr.Tietney, and several other Members, took the oaths and their seats. THE ADDRE'. The SPEAKER read from the chair a copy of his Majesty!s speech. Aftcr which, Lord HAM tf,TON rose to move the Address.— He commenced by saying, that he should endeavour not to detain the House long by entering into details, or by explaining circumstances with which they were already stifficicatly acqua:nted, and of which they were much better judges than he was. It was already known, and obvious to what is the present situa tion of Europe—what is the nature of that danger with which the country is now threatened ; how in vetcrate and implacable the enemy is with whom we are contending, and how powerfid he is at the present moment. We all knew the cause for which we fight 'and the take for which we are contending—it was nothing less than the honour and independance of our country. We knew also that it Was the fate of the country now to stand alone, unsupported by allies, and to rest uponits own spirit and' resources as to the only hunian means ofbringing it with honour and se curity.from the contest ill which it is now embarked. While we relied on our great and grewing resources; we could not be insensible to the gigantic power of our enemy, which had already overwhelmed almost every nation on the Continent, and robbed them of every . thing like independence. In a situation se alarming to the world, and of such di ffi culty for this country, there could be but one feel ing—that we are nationally and individually bound to make our great est exertions against an implacable enemy, who is go verned by no other principles than an mordinateam bition, and a hatred to the independ ence of all nations, but particularly of this country, whose freedom and there e n ergy w a had s so n o long other way defie ttiohoipspio)ozeseurcahndanheinsonmiyal,icheot; by animated and powerful exertions. If we were not to be sincerely animated, from a sense of our actual situation, faint-heartedness and listlessness would con duct us to our ruin. (Cries of hear, hear !) There was no midway for us—we could adopt no middle course—either we must be determined to pursue that contest which the inveterate hatred of our foe renders necessary, or else we must be prepared to see the country dishonoured, if not lost. In su ch a situation it was, however, a matter of the greatest consolation, pride, and triumph, to look at the actual spirit and resources of this nation. While we could not avoid deeply lamenting the calamities and the ruin which had overwhelmed most of the nations on the Conti nent, we could not, at the same time, avoid feeling extremely thankful for the very different situation in which we stood, from that in which the greatest na tions upon the Continent were now place . d. The ob jects for which we had engaged in a just and defensive wer had not as yet been torn from us by the power of our foe ; but on the contrary, they had taken deeper root, and had acquired additional strength. The more we had considered the causes for which the war was carried on, the more were we satisfied that our honour and best interests were involved in the issue. This country had no cause to be dispirited as to the final issue of the contest it was engaged in. In the long and arduous war it had already waged, it had gained many advantages, and conquered many valuable set tlements, but had lost nothing. It had inflicted blows upon the enemy in every quarter, but received none. [Hear ! hear !]—As far as the events of war had gone, the enemy had not had a single triumph to boast of ever this country ; and, while their commerce was almost annihilated, ours not only continued in full vi gour, but was constantly increasing. Our navy had not only gained the most signal and glorious advan tages, but had swept every hostile fleet from the face of tlie ocean, and now rode triumphant in every sea. The war, which to almost all other countries was such a grievous curse, was, comparatively, to this country, a blessing. Notwithstanding its additional expences and burdens, it appeared still to be ate great channel and support of our security. In considering war with respect only to the expences which it occa sioned, we must recollect that a state of peace, in the present situation of the world, would be attendedwith perhaps as much expence, but with ten times as much danger as a state of war. In such circumstances, and after the occurrences which had lately happened, he trusted the House would applaud the firmness and decision with which Ministers had acted, sand that they would approve of what they had done, and were now doing.—[Hear! hear! from the Ministerial Benches.] —He thought they had done their duty, and that they merited the confidence of the House, and of the coun try. 'After the public documents of which the House 1 and the public were in possession, he thought it would be unnecessary for him to go into any length of statement. He felt, as the House must undoubt edly do, great regret and concern at the failure of I every attempt to conclude an honourable peace ; but when they felt regret upon this score, it was a regret I entirely unmixed with any reproach to Ministers, and which was combined only with a feeling of gratitude to his Majesty, for his benevolent wish to restore the blessings of peace, if peace could be obtained con sistently with our honour and security. After what the House was already informed of from his Ma jesty's Declaration, and what was notorious to the whole world, of the conduct of the enemy and of Russia, subsequent to the unfortunate negociations at Tilsit, he thought it was impossible for any man to ! doubt what was the inclination of the Northern Powers, subsequent to the peace of Tilsit. It ap- I peared to him so perfectly clear, that he could not suppose it was possible that it could be mistaken ; nor world he, even in argument, presume that a se cond construction could be put upon it. If, however, any Gentleman in that House should state another opinion on the subject, he trusted they would be fully answered ; but until he heard such opinion stated, he could not presume it. It had perhaps been one of the principal causes of the misfortunes of the other nations•on the Continent, that they thought them ' selves bound to adhere to a rigid and blind observance of the old rules of war and customs of civilized na tions, while they were contending with an enemy who held those laws and customs in the most sovereign contempt, and who never hesitated to violate them, when that violation could -be made in any way subservient to his purposes. It was, perhaps, by carrying this attachment to old usages to a blame able extreme, that the rest of the nations had brought upon themselves the calamities which now overwhelmed them. England had always prided itself on the justice of her conduct, and he trusted that she would not now be blamed for having, in one memorable instance, anticipated the designs of her enemy. He well knew, that both in the judgment and feelings of the House and the coun try, the prosperity of the nation and its interests were inseparable froM its honour and good faith. [Hear! hear! from the Ofifiosition . lock.] But when, in sub stance and in reality, honour and gocd faith were al ways attended to, it was not by mere words and empty sounds that the nation, and those who were entrusted with the administration of its affairs, were to be turned from measures of just and necessary de fence against the machinations of their enemy. He hoped and trusted that this country would neverhe cursed with a timid and irresolute Government ; with a Government that would be inactive when they ought to be decided—who would spend that time in argument and discussion which ought to be spent in prompt and vigorous action—who would hesitate to act as their country's honour and security required, either from the force of an argument, or else for fear of an argument which might arise in future. [Hear, hear! As to the expedition of Copenhagen, he thought it was one of those measures of which the best criterion • was its success. He Might challenge the annals of the world to shend more prayers and intreaues were ina,k or more forbearance and moderation al , Administration had collected abundant r a force which Denmark might liav:‘ without d gradation. Asto the conductof the long connection wi:•ch she bad had Nril try, she had now taught us one lesson, • the last which we woul , l require —d l;; , ready we might be to. assist the Contir when .in distress, yet it was to ounel. ourselves alone, ghat we must lock for of British interests, and for our own security. Accustomed as we had to events which baffled all human yet we did not expect to see the Russia put his hand so suddenly ts dation of the Cratinent. We did not him so immediately turning from the al had protected, and from the friends v.- ported him, to crouch under the thron e per whom he had so recently defied a: Although the country had been t!tus abandoned 13!. whom she and respected, yet they had tea times • lament than we had. Of ail de pitiful the Emperor of Russia had recourse to Manifesto, that concerning malhime injuries he alledged to have received, completely ridiculous. The firmness w of 'Sweden had shewn entitled him to and support ; and he trusted that, in towards that Prince, we would short we did not make our own immecliat the measure of our good faith and frieni to the Orders of Council, he conceived • precedented and outrageous violence had left to neutrality only a mere nal his conduct had forced us to consider , but two nations upon the sea, ourselves miss. He was well convinced, that situation of affairs, some of the channt nf..ree must be suspended or varied fro: but, notwithstanding the temporary some branches of it must sustain, it proved that the general course of our of our resources had (as if in defiai, and flourished during the very time that was exerting all his power, his malice, tice, to crush and overwhelmthern. Aft observations on the different points of concluded by moving an Address / ' usual, an echo of the Speech). Mr. ELLIS seconded the illation, from the admirable manner in which had delivered his sentiments, little ref to state. He thought, however, that. entitled to the gratitude of their country and alacrity they had displayed since occurrences after the last Session. this opinion sincerely, being wholly connected with Administration. their foresight and perseverance, in • enemy's projects ; as, had the Northern carried into exeeution, it would have 1' most stupendous confederacies ever Great Britain ; because it was backe, and devised, by France. Ministers also for Iszvitvg information relative puladons in the treaty of Tilsit, and had any farther information in the month would still have been justified in persit pedition against Copenhagen ; as, hi not taken place, the plans of the eta been materially corroborated and cot agreeing with the obsei:vations of his ' the conduct of Russia, he turned to the this country stood with Amerien. Tit of peculiar delicacy, though a goed ranee had been exhibited open it. HI ever, that the concession cf his Mai, - and the voluntary retribution for the gratefully received by that people, sential rights of Great Britain mir any adjustment of the differences. in praise of the Orders in Council, ci - decrees of France, contending that rect hostility to all the machinations that country, and also suggesting thi solute necessity that existed for their scrupulously enforced, as the Freni levelled solely and entirely at defeat. cial superiority of this country, if not entirely : until the result of that experi] known, nothing but uncertainty must p several farther observations, the Her concluded by seconding the motion. Lord MILTON said, that there was Majesty's Speech, and one point whir' those who supported the conduct which he could• by no means agree. that his .Majesty hesitated to accept Russia for peace, until he should be were the secret articles of Tilsit, what tion of Russia itself, atid how far it mediating fairly and impartially bet. and France. This objection appeared plausible than just. If Russia had arbitrator and: umpire between the parties, then it might be necessary to she was in a situation to arbitrate when Russia had only offered itself 3! engaged merely- to use its good offii reconciliation, .it did not appear nei what was the real strength of' Russi was able to support her mediation by he sincerely wished for a peace th able and secure, - he still retained tl had before publicly expressed, when . think that promoting a clamour for p way of obtaining it. He was, howe nished, when he heard such glowir the state of the country, and the pro merce. He was at a loss to know hi could be said to be in so prosperous it was known that almost every against our manufactures, and that nufaCtureri were already thrown ou When this was the situntion of frit thought it was surprizing that it she as flourishing. He had been in hope would have contained some expressi peace, if it could be accomplished alt the country had reason to expect ; pacific expressions, the Speech was and in the language of menace, n( they cod • at the tire fleet was i been for I Certainly as author should b grounds I titular pl enemy w if, as wa! groundso by way c All write controver tify such attack nc territory, about to vroy yo days, no: and extr, behind, might m danger. was pro, tern and sent see. present : not app lity; not we must autherit pies of France A have gig by her c nifested her arm Dctinv. that dei and or, - that the poi;• • have lit Zcala or et . of 2viin not ha• such a with native France flectinl who c( know I two sc land , currett than si • miles 1, Jf suci an Isla rior as it '6l there be sai of fro, gen; c litary And if sicgi n! • open, might sibilit'. posed of sucl Sovcr( fiat a ciisposi • app,tay nor an t:o cc rted other • dcs:gn spe.k • era:. was 1.% wh t h hut on enct:s groi nc nist rs tali foi Ci t . ilttl were is as coul Stl critical serve h • condac interesi ther m. lei cast for the • j r‘ns.ilt; 1 , L. . C. ndac -:" that • rr.;_'lTl ele att ):(ISI.I • tho'.- any at i - • fcir kin& cijecti t•e eql; ;riotic r'.l.cr.ts ^OIL. : ni; ),,t6 a . P a ever, er c e lrfare , t tlh sWta ; alter ^ tee , it tesourecs;. win to ‘Yith this , n s ' eces ntmental a Y ct fur pe' the ET -. 4 un cal he Empe k . a Y to the . ould ot hu ahe dlee ( 11) t l . ' ouh e h ' in il:fl. al lie s :: S . e 17 a e i t ,t1 : n41:4 1 rn r. rrt the t. i t l o t • n , se•di an Oot l ' t . ou f t the r eW rd ne o f that tx . to in. his , - te rights, ;eh t !d, was th e ~' cif); ss in our c , , • f. • diate cent .t d friendship. • .ived that th e .ics uc tc " 11712 ; and it. ler that th ere COTE elves and our . hat in the ~ 4 mnels of oirr c ,. P from time:o.' ary injar Rh' t had btel l e rr { • • our cernm tv „' • • :fiance) irop m le that nta. -„' lice, and his s After a few: ' s of the ' its ss (which•oz, Oft' Pe obseriml, " d , !h his Noble Fr, - remained for' Yin hat Ministers • -. untry, for the." ye_l , ace the momr . lc. t. He en'. ly and entin:y He nommen'. 31 in antici;ati g •thern Leap " lye been one of ter formed : :ked;:strea o ,.... • ' deserrea •, • ve to the sent ad had they oak " onth of July, )ersisting iu the .• Oi had that ottnz enemy would to c on imd. s Noble F:'ed ho situationin That was a cd deal cf ' He trusted,- da;esly•to . the injury • • , • c, and that do nct safe He sruk.i , counteracting at they were is • ms of the Rah" - the policy via eir being rio 'rench decrees • , (eating the cc ••-• f not ter core • ~. experiment •h II must prevail. e Hon. Gen • t was one part'' which was nude let of Ministers wee. It was .•;, ;. !pt the in • d be infonhed what was the ,r it was . • • between this •- •peared to him k c id proposed to the two cont • . rto consider •• .te impartially'; if as a meliaz offices to pr( necessary F i by arms. Al . Y' 4 : •t•_ might be 11 1 . d the opinion th! .. Len he said he id' "or peace was thel' towever, a wing descrir.lcP' prosperity of w how our our."' our ry market was hat many of or L: l deo.ss o poish u leiupoos t ruont h o nlsd f c aso e t ify 1 themp d l t I h ' t ; but ins•cad arts in a vJarlik e '; , not only to r!