Star. — London, England, 1821-02-15 00:00:00

any Meeting at pleasure, as a power highly uncon stitutional, *slid &serious breach of the People's right of petitioning. The Act of Parliament, he was con vinced, never intended to give the Sheriff this power ; a power which rendered the right of petitioning a dead letter on the Statute Book. It was under the conviction that the Act never intended to give this power to the Sheriff, that he acted, in bringing for.; ward this motion. It, on referring -the Act to the consideration of a Committee, it should appear upon their Report, that they agreed with him, he trusted the House would then allow a Bill to be brought in to amend the Act. and to define more correctly . the power of . tile Sheriff. He concluded by moving, that the Petition from Chester should be referred to a Select 'Committee. • Mr. CREEVEY was not aware that his Honour able Friend would have shaped his motion to meet the Chester Petition. He understood his motion would have gone to the conduct of Sheriffs gene rally ; and, under that impression, he gave his no. tice last night, for inquiry , into the circumstances connected with the Chester Petition; but his Hon. Friend's motion, as it now stood, appeared to embrace every object he had in view. Lord CASTLEREAGH considered both motions the same in substance, and as going to an investiga tion of the conduct of an individual. If the mo tion was agreed to, it would call on-the individual in question to bring up witnesses at a great expense, and from a considerable distance; and before the hlouse would impose such a hardship on any indivi dual, he was persuaded they would see the case in some measure made out. It was not enough that they had a Petition on their table, stating certain charges against the Sheriff, but he thought they should have a full statement of facts from the Ho nourable Member for Northumberland, and ,others, before the House came to any decision. He there fore,suggested the propriety of this discussion stand ing over to a luture day. Mr. BEAUMONT expressed his readiness' to ac cede to this suggestion. Mr. DENM AN .said, it was proper he should state, that he had a Petition to present from certain per : . sons, complaining of the Sheriffs of Middlesex, for' refusing to call a Meeting in Middlesex, on an ob jection to the Requisition. He had seen Mr. Sheriff Waithman, who expressed his conviction that he should be able to justify his conduct on' this point, by the production of certain papers to the House. On the pre;ent subject, he thought the law was so well known no new enactment would be required ; and, indeed, he should be most unwilling to make a Select Committee judges of the rights of the Peo ple on this subject. He was happy to hear from the Noble Lord that his Majesty's Ministers had no wish to throw any impediments in the way of these , Meetings, though, he must confess, it was hard to re concile their declaration with the conduct of some of them at the late Hampshire Meeting, where a Requi sition for a Public Meeting having been pre,ented to the Sheriff, they presented a counter-Requisition that no Meeting should be called—(/Wear, hear). The motion was then, with the consent of the .house, t,ithdrawn. SCOTTISH JURIES. Mr. KENNEDY, in bringing forward his motion, said riat it was of the utmost importance to remove any blot that might carnally appear on the adminis • tra:ion of justice ; he did not mean to cast the slight .est imputation on the conduct of the Learned Judges in Scotland, for whom he entertained the highest pos sible respect, and he felt he was only attempting to relieve them when endeavouring to remove defects in the administration of justice. In the year 1701, an Act was pa.sed in Scotland which might be pro perly called the Habeas Corpus Act of that country; at was an Act to secure the liberty of the subject, by virtue of which, any .individual charged with an uf fence, might compel the prosecutor to bring him to trial within a limited time. Unfortunately, many persons were denied the benefit of that Statute, be cause the expense of seeking for redress under it was too heavy for those individuals to meet. Again, per sons were.only entitled to the benefit of the Act of 1701, who previously qualified themselves by going to jail, per.ons out on bail could not obtain the bene fit of the provisions of that Act. Another defect to which he felt it necessary to allude, was the arbi trary judgments pronounced in Scotland, no matter what the punishment, from the smallest fine, up to transportation for five years, and for life; Judges pronounced arbitrary judgments—political offences also came under the cognizance of those Courts. By a late Act, which naturally excited alarm in this country, a man convicted of the second offence in the case of libel, was made subject to the punishment of banishment ; but in Scotland it is the law to trans port a man for the first offence—(Hear, hear). In the course of the last year, an individual in that country, convicted of a seditious libel, was trans ported for five - years—(Hear, hear). That indivi- , dual was now undergoing that punishment—a pu nishment which he understood was considered rather lenient—(hear, hear). Another point to which he would allude was, the power assumed and exercised by the Lord Advocate, in filing ex-olcio informa tions, by which means he took away from the ac cused the benefit of a Jury, in the first instance. An other grievance on the accused party was, that he was denied the benefit of any informality that might appear. Where such informality appears, the prose cutor 4 4 deserts the diet," pro loco et tempore, and the party is sent back to prison, and brought up for trial a second time for the same offence. Another crying evil was, the mode of selecting Jurors for criminal trials. The practice was, that forty-five persons were presented by the Sheriff, out of which fifteen persons were selected as a Jury to try the case.— In Scotland, there were four Counties within the Cir cuit ; the Sheriff returns at Edinburgh 45 persons for each of those Counties, making 180 persons in the' whole. Those names are delivered to the Judge, and out of them he selects 15 persons at his wilt and pleasure. lle was far from supposing that the Judges acted improperly or partially, but he submitted that those were preliminary arrangements which ought not to exist. It should be recollected, that in all cases—in cases of murder or of robbery—eight Jurors out of fifteen were sufficient to convict the accused. In a country. where one man might lose his life by the decision.of another, the greatest caution ought to be observed its the selection of Jurors—(Hear, hear). The Hon. Gentleman next observed, that though Sir GeorgeM4Cenaie stated that the right of peremptory challenge existed in Scotland, such right did not exist, anil was pot sanctioned by authority. The remedy• he proposed was, that the Jury, instead of being no minated as they are, should be. selected by ballot.— He would also give to each party the right, to a small amount, of peremptory challenge. He would give the prosecutor the right to challenge three Ju rors, and the right to the accused of challenging three also. He did not with to go farther, though he thought that the right of peremptory challenge might with safety be extended farther ; in a country where the life and fame of an individual might depend on 'the voice of a single man, no party feeling should be allowed to exist. In England, the right of peremp tory challenge, in cases of capital felon), was always exercised, and was generally permitted in other cases, as long as Jurors could be found. He understood that the Learned Lord (the Lord Advocate) intended to introduce some measure of Irnelioration with re spect to the Law of Scotland; he would be glad to find that the the selection of question concet ning Juries was intended to be embraced in that measure, but he was not aware that such was the intention of the Learned Lord. The Honourable Gentleman con cluded by moving for leave to bring in a Bill to regulate the Appointment of Jurors in criminal cases in Scotland. _ Lord BINNING said, that he regretted, with his Hon. Friend, the absence of the Learned Lord (the Lord Advocate). It was not to be Supposed, that he (Lord Binningycould be able to reply to the state ments that had been made; indeed, it was not neces sary, for his Hon. Friend had gone into matters which were quite extraneous to the object of his Bill —(Hear, hear).—His Hon. Friend had alluded to what he called arbitrary punishments ; he would state the nature of those arbitrary punishments.— Where an individual stood accused of an offence which was death by the law, the Lord Advocate had the right of restricting the libel, which was, pro lento, restricting the power of the Judges in favour of the accused. He was not prepared to assume or deny the propriety of. the change proposed ; but in the absence of the Lord Advocate, and in the utter ig norance of the House, with the exception of two or three Members, he hoped his Honourable Friend would content himself with having the Bill read a first time, and letting it lie over. Mr. M. A. TAYLOR said, it was rather unparlia mentary that his Hon. Friend should be assailed be cause he brought forward the motion in the absence of the Noble Lord, whose duty it was to be present. He did not.see why, if the Lord Advocate was ab sent, their tongues were to he tied ; theliroble Lot d should rather have apologised for the Learned Lord than have inculpated his Hon. Friend. His Hon. Friend had brought to view the arbitrary power exercised by the Court r.f Justiciary, to instances of which .he (Mr. Taylor) had happened to be witness in a case, the details of which Were printed, and which was also to be found in the debates of that House; he meant the case of Mr.Nloir. and Mr. Palmer—(Hear). He (Mr. Taylor) had been in the House at the time of the debate, as well as in Edinburgh at the time of the trial, and certainly, in common with many others, he slid not think the verdict was that which would have been given by an English Jury,—(Hear, hear)., He had on this point the testimony of a man of no 7 mean authority, who was present the whole time, he meant tine late Sir S. Romilly. Mr. Erskine, a lawyer of the very first eminence, declared, that on that occasion the Court of Justiciary had rnisunder . stood the law, when they sentenced the prisoners to transportation. The law said, that persons convicted of sedition should be " bani.hed from their pleasant fields and native homes." But this never had been understood, or could be honestly interpreted, as giving a power to transport the prisoner to a particular .)lace, as they did those prisoners to Botany Bay.— The case was brought before the House of Corn awns by the present Commissioner of the Jury curt t.sli. Adam)'; the Judges escaped censure with very great difficulty, and no one who heard the debate, could suppose that the law gave the power assumed of ba nishing beyond the seas for sedition and :ibel. But, forsooth, they were not to speak of Scats law, unless the Lord Advocate was present. In the House of Lords, the Chancellor decided on Scots law, though tin Scots lawyer, and in that House, even if the Lord Advocate had been present, he should take on him self to decide according to his own judgment. Mr. J. P. GRANT said, the principles of the Bill had been laid by his Honourable Friends on grounds which required no amplification; but he should rec tify a mistake of the Noble Lord (Lord Binning), who supposed that it was only when a libel was re stricted by the Lord Advocate that an arbitrary power was exercised by the Court of Justiciary. Within not a great many years, in those cases in which by the law of Scotland they were enabled to inflict a punish, merit; of which the utmost extent was banishment from Scotland, the Judges had assumed the power .to transport the prisoner to a particular place, as un der the Transportation Acts in England ; and in a re cent case, for one of these offences, in which banish meet was the utmost legal punishment, the prisoner was recommended by an unanimous Jury to the le nity of the Court, and that Court, in lenity, trans ported him for five years. Lord BINNING explained, that be never meant to state that the arbitrary power in question was only exercised in cases of death. He merely said, that when it was exercised, it was for lenient purposes. Mr. J. P. GRANT considered the country, and particularly Scotland, greatly indebted to his Learned Friend for having brought forward this motion. Leave was then given to bring in the Bill. BRITISH CORN. persons abroad, that the American Our, and corn was alone cured so as to keep in the Colonies, an order was given to supply the Colonial stores with Ameri can flour. However, now an experiment had, been tried, which, if it succeeded, would enable' us to supply the Colonies. Mr. CURWEN denied that , there was any supe• riority in American, or any other foreign corn over our's ; which, if kiln dried, would keep as well as any American flour in hot countries. Mr. HUME hoped his Majesty's Government would not send a quarter of grain from England, when it could be obtained for the Colonies so much more cheaply in our North American Colonies. The motion was then agreed to. lONIAN ISLANDS. Colonel DAVIES had moved for Returns of Mi litia in the lonian Islands ; those had not been made; and he had now to state, that for four or five years there had been no Militia embodied there, and this country was paying £4OOO or £5OOO for Officers to this Militia Mr. *GOULBURN said, these Officers belonged to the Staff. Colonel DAVIES said, that previous to the occu pation of these Islands by Our troops, certain village Officers used to embody and train the Militia without any pay ; hut now these was a great deal of discon- tent in these Llands. Mr. GOULBURN would reserve himself till the question should be fully before the House, when he had no ddubt of being able to slew the contrary. AFFAIRS OP IRELAND. Mr. C. GRANT moved for leave to bring in a Bill to regulate the Office of Chief Clerk of Assize in Ire lanJ.—Leave was then given. Mr. C. GRANT moved, that to-morrow the House should go into a Committee on Compensations to the Clerks of Assize in Ireland. Mr. CR EEVEY was not disposed to ag ree to grants of public money, without any symptoms of economy. Mr. GRANT said, that this was intended to be al compensation for other sums, which were levied in a manner which was found to be improper and in convenient. SUPPLY. The CH A NCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that the. Committee of Supply should be postponed till Friday. Colonel DAVIES wished to know why these Com mittees were constantly postponed ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, they were always postponed when there was no busi ness to be brought before them. PREVENTION OF SMUGGLING. Mr. WARRE called the attention of the House to the Right Hon. Gentleman's mode of protecting the Revenue from smuggling, and'veished to know whe ther he meant to continue this system of protection during peace? From Beachy Head to the Thames there were armed seamen with pistols and cutlasses, who patroled the coast. They were commanded by Midshipmen ; and he would ask a Noble Lord of the Admiralty, whether this was not the very worst ser vice in which a Midshipman could be employed, ex posed as he was to all temptations, without being under:the "check and controul of his Captain? He could not help calling their attention to an Act of last Session, making it a penalty of 4:190 upon any /man landing a pint of foreign spirits. A man landed a pint of spirits in his pocket; this was discovered by a Blockade Officer : he took the man before a Magistrate, and sued for the penalty. The Magis trate knew.the man, and that his family would be ruined if it was inflicted and he refused to inflict it, aid told him to apply to another Magistrate. Sir G. COCKBURN said, that the report of the conduct of the Midshipmen on this service was most itisfactory. They messed together, and conducted themselves with the utmost propriety. They had all passed for Lieutenants, and, therefore, were seamen. The smugglers came down in armies of 100 men ; regular battles ensued, and several were killed and wounded on both sides, of which regular dispatches and returns were made. MALT DUTY BILL. The CHANCELLOR of the. EXCHEQUER moved the second reading of this Bill. Mr. CREEVEY opposed the second reading. They had now been for three weeks siting, almost con stantly, in a Committee of Supply, and yet they had no tst mates—( flea r). He had been told that the Seci eta' y of the Treasury, in communications ad dressed to those who were in political connection with the Lords of the Treasury, had informed them that it would be a very short Session ; that all the business would be over .by Easter. In other words, this was to say that the Queen was sacrificed ; that Ministers were safe; and, as for money, that nobody troubled himself about its disposal—(/ car). Still the House had no estimates. But they were to come. They were at length to come ; and they would pre sent themselves, all at once, in the shape of huge books, which, if Honourable Gentlemen did their duty as Members of Parliament, it would take them three weeks to examine ; but which, as usual, they would be required to go through at one sitting, of two or three nights at the furthest—(Hear). Now, he was determined that he never would leave things in this state of his own will. Those estimates they would never have, unless they stopped the supplies which the Constitution had put into their hands; and upon this principle it was that he opposed, and meant to oppose the second reading of this Bill.—(Hear, hear). He spoke, however, With some hesitation on the sub ject, as he saw an Honourable Baronet on the second bench opposite—he meant one of those Lay Lords, as sonic persons called him, but as he (Mr. Creevey) styled him, ore of those sham, mock Lords of the Admiralty. He understood that that' Honourable Mr. CURTEIS said, that within a week past a Baronet had said to that political connection and ac- Notice was published in The London Gazette, to sup- quaintance of which he formed so distinguished an ply the Colonies with British flour. It had, however, ornament--4 Hear, and laughter)—that he meant on been stated ? that British flour and corn was inferior this occasion to inflict a strong and signal punish to American ; but he had documents from Governors 'ment upon him (Mr. Creevey), for doing as he did and others in our Colonies, that it was superior, if mean to do—persevering in his opposition, till the properly harvested. He hoped, in the present state House got these reluctant Estimates—(A laugh,' and of British Agriculture, that no contracts for foreign cheering ). The Chancellor of the Exchequer, th e y corn and flour would be made. He then moved for kne#, had thrown out that the House was to find that a Return of all Foreign Corn and Flour contracted there would be effected a saving of £1,000,000 this for by the Victualling Office for the last three years, year—(Hear, hear). The Estimates, however' were distinguishing the prices of each. not forthcoming to prove that position; and he (Mr. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was Creevey) was resolute to oppose, as he had done be always. desirous of protecting British Agriculture, fore, everything which bore the slightest resemblance and therefore would not oppose the motion. A quan- to a vote of Supply ; for, in persisting in this course of city of British flour and corn bad perished in the Co. conduct, he humbly hoped that the Honourable Ba- lonic's; and in consequence of representations from ronet, who had so obligingly invited his Honourable' Friends to the benefit:--(iaughteri-- ‘ standing, in the tenderness of his con him. Perhaps the Honourable Bar member that there was a time when a tip-top patriot—rather in the Rc sure—but this recollection, and former might plead with him for his (Mr. ' nacy—(Leughter). Ga the principles explained, he opposed the second readi The CHANCELLOR of the thought that the Hon. Gentleman tended opposition to be an occupati, little worth his while to pursue. considered the number of seamen, voted for the service of the year. Estimates spoken of, he could asst ' Gentlemen that the utmost haste have them ready, and he hoped the I state to be laid before the House in week; and no measure would be ini in them until they were a sufficient of Menibers.' Sit K. WILSON concurred in the posing the Bill at the present momei rt was their duty as Members to op, of supply while his Majesty's Minis , be conceived they did, to act in opi dared w ish of the Peop,e. It wor t , to say that the majoiity of the lh . , mght s vote, declared war upon the would maintain that, as a majority persisted in not listening to the pre: it was but a fair exercise of their p: bers on his (the Opposition) side tt fusing to grant auy supplies—(flem Sir THOMAS LETHIlltIl)(E sary to support his Majest)'s Minis sion, audhe could not but regard tir+ given as vexatious—(llear - ).—At an independent Member of PariiL that every possible saving should he sent distressed state of the county concur in any measure proposei which should have that effect—(H/ Colonel DAVIES was glad to oc. as those which fell from the Hon. spoke last. He could assure Irian, to the present motion made at hi side, arose solely from their wish to considered a grievance. They wished tinctly understood what retrencluitc tention of Ministers to make. In their they only exercised the undoubted House to refuse all supplies, where plained of was not remedied—(Heal refusals of supplies by the House, all that they should not now be e: of Commons, or have effectually gi once enormous influence of the Cro, say that that influence was as great times ; but when be saw his Nlajest y' regat dless of the prayers of the Peoi the duty of Members, who had the country at heart, to exercise their vilege in opposing any money grant Mr. HUME was surprised to hear 'tiotis" applied to Gentlemen at his He considered that the term tv , itti cable to the other side, and that the night was factious in the highest I Order! Chair !). The SPEAKER said, that he wi the Hon. Member that the .vord been used by any Member. If sucl applied to any portion of the House, called to order, considering it disor, tainly, to apply the term " factious" that House, was still more disorder), Mr. HUME begged pardon. IL said, vexatious. Tilts, he would prophecy be the last vexatious opposition that to such grants, if Ministers continuk opposition to the wishes of nine.teni —(Neer, hear). Air. MANSFIELD said, that in last night, he was actuated by no party therefore he was not deserving of tious or vexatious. It was lob muk after night, Members accused of vi sense of the People. He believed, i majority in rank and respectability agreed in opinion, as to the conduct Lady, with the majority of that House. Sir J. NEWPORT wished that f accounts might be got ready for Parliament on its meeting. They as possible, consult the feelings of 1 shew them they had their interest ration of their condition at heart. Mr. J. MARTIN was determined more Supplies until he saw a clearer the Public Accounts. The House then divided ; For the 71—Against it, 22—Majority, 49. The Bill was ordered to be cc OLD STOW. Mr. GRENFELL complained that there given in Committees of Supply of the mode Naval and Military Stores; and he hoped' mode of disposing of these Stores would be mates of the Year. Sir G. WARRENDRER knew of no were publicly sold. Mr. GRENFMLL said, he knew that, these old stores had been disposed of by private he suspected to the loss of the Public. The Five Millions in Aids Bill was read ordered to be committed tomorrow. The Queen's Annuity Bill was read a third The House, in a Committee, passed a' £4OOO a-year (Irish currency) as a salary Rolls in Ireland, on the motion of Mr. C. . Another Resolution was agreed to, granting £l5OO a-year to retired Masters in Chancery, twenty years. A third Resolution, granting £l2BO to ants of the Court of Chancery in Ireland, + Sir JOHN NEWPORT agreed to these it was better to give a fixed salary to these by allowing them to exact fees. The '- to inquire into Abuses in Courts of Law for suggesting these,improvements. The, would be made up by Stamp Duties, levied Mr. D. BROWNE reprobated the former tion of fees in the Courts of Ireland. The Report of the Resolutions was order' Mr. GOULBURN gave notice, that should move for leave to bring in a Bill to the African Corps. • Mr. Blt OG DEN obtained leave to bring demnity Bill.—. Adjourned at Half-past Eight pleatsswiu,s;id: I : lie lam —would, nwcilpieines hheelhhdia'rnsdnftitLf le Radical Ill*: 1 9 b e S id former essoeiAtieN• (Mr. Creevey's) rod readilig--Ncent: the EX.CHF,QuE4 nan would find his is, :cupation that i t 1 , 11 C e . Th ey h ad already ten, for ir.stance, to 4 rear. As to the 04 Id assure linn hihau . to was now making"; ed they would be i ee, se in the count of no * be introduced respect dent time in the haed i in the Propriety o f Th P. moment. li e thus poi gi e to oppose any alts qinister s contin p nk a Bt" n opposition to th e d e , ilkg would not he reply: CPA CaI e .use had, by le/ Ca sn the People ; b ut h, Cal 01 ity o:i the o t h l s i dt Cat players 01 the Peopl e 0 „ eir privile ge for Mens, Cu; de to tetaliate by re. Co illcar, hear). )(iE thought it netts C c: Slinisters on this ne ar (11 ird the opposition Dot Cot At the same time, as Rel Par lianicia, he ssisiej . ild he in the p o pro ountry, and he scowl{ , s e.i Ott the other side —(Hear!. Du 0 .lea rr itch se nt imee4. Hon. Gentleman rho al, that the objective it his (the o,.po,itite) sh to co. rest wnat they • wished to have it dis. Fiat 16a - tents it was the in. a' In their pre.ent count, übted privilege of dr rar there a grievanacce. Fan (Near).— But for sie ise, it was notorious', GT ., be existing As a Hose 1 y guarde d' against de .e Cross n. lie did at • kreat flow as in formers jest y's Ministers id* People, he thought it d the interests of the heir c..nstitutional am , grants. Bent :ti hear the term " fe. tern t his side of the Hate. Pnv n i i would be more appi• sat the mapay of • Font ;hest degree— (Orie, But :en he would first remind ird factious" had Kt f such word had bra -louse, he would Inv disorderly;t but or- tiotts" to a majority )rderly—(Hear). 1. He meant to hare prophecy, %vadat s that would beau& he stinued their vetaices le-tenths of the Pee p 4 Pe at in the vote her l a :sfdintio restines l o iaold f rtyct f fly : f t v ott c s ba toi o uoahh h hhn re i f t fiees dannyttue. the onggpsiedt fe eling; ue People; . called a, truth, inspection ap n f t he g pa I t v sep u It h a ttsei hear, l emoss ma d s 1 4 ifra a l a in t t e l eegaza_idnnct It h e ext. • mined to vote se earer mode of WO tat 'Or the second regale w 49. • at :ommitted ta morraiti tt 4 there was no mil: ad le mode of dis P allS te, loped information. aid be inserted in the tio f no objection to this-4M e _ neva to w that, in som e by private contra , ' Public. aid sit a read a wound dm n d e an a a third time A u vel r, d a Resolution for . die Mail er° J ia b ry to Ir. C. GaasT• also pe a to, granting an woks bo ' ia,ncery, after a .„„a• A • e hea. 810 and to, alas a l so th e r et i r these red ges : erl ' r a te those • e Comnitaaim en ail • L aw &senate e th :" w on et The m ount u. IS Eight co'CloOk* tt 3 : t ita seoieht bring dd-oncegnoorenne former inhutithue;:ts Tu es d ay suitors e nib be t . _ l F re d l o 1:#1: