Star. — London, England, 1821-06-09 00:00:00

PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDING& HOUSE OF LORDS, JUNE s. The Royal Assent was given by Conusdision to the Seamen's Wazes Bill, the Grampound Disfranchisement Bill, the Jurors' Attendance Bill, the Attornies and Solicitors Regulation Bill, the Sale of Bread Bill, the Salop Judges Lodgings Bill, the Edinburgh Jail Bill, and Lord Glerawley's Divorce Bill.—The Commissioners were, the Loin Cuaxcat.t.os, the Earl of SUATTESSUILY ' and L ord bletvints. The )larqu is of LANSDOWN presented a Report from the Committee on Foreign Trade, on the Domestic Silk Manufac ture. The extent to which it had lately been improved, gave an earnest of its future and speedy prosperity. It was supported by prohibitory laws, because otherwise it would have been car ried on with great disadvantage. We now get the raw material in great quantities from the territories of the East India Com pany, and from Italy and the South of Europe. lie was happy to say, that, notwithstanding the care of the French Govern ment to keep up the manufacture of this article, yet ours ex ceeded theirs greatly. The moment the free trade was admit ted in the East, from that time the progressive improvement in quantity and quality of the raw material, and also of the manu lictured article commenced. The Committee wished to call the duties on raw silk to the attention of the House. Ile did r.ct expect any particular reduction of the duties. Some modi- fir•ation might be made in the nature and mode of paying the drawbacks. The manufacturer were willing to stand the com petition with the nench in the home and foreign markets, if only a protecting duty was put on the extent of the difference in the price of labour in the two countries. Another thing the Committee had looked at was the Act regulating the prices of • labour of the silk weavers in Spitalilelds, and to prevent the in of all new and foreign machinery into the silk mane: factory. Ile then moved that the Report be printed, and laid upon the tahle.—Ordered. The Niarqui: of A NSDOWN gave notice, that after the holidays he should make a motion on the subject of Foreign' Slave Trade. The Earl of DONOUG H MORE presented a Petition from E. Mathews, late a Clerk in the Common Pleas, Dublin, against the Irish Law Courts Bill.—Ordered to be laid on the table. Lord SIDMOUTH moved the Committee on the Irish Co•:rts of lAw Bill. The Earl of I)OSOUGIIMORE moved that Mr. Clancey s'aould he heard by his Counsel against the Bill. Lord SIDMOUTH thought the House could not hear Coun sel on the Petition of one Clerk ; because, if there was a grievance it must press upon the other Clerks. Lord RE DESDA LE spoke in favour of hearing the Counsel of Mr. Clancey and Mr. Edwards, the latter of whom had held his office 35 years. The Marquis of LA NSDOWN said, that if they allowed Counsel to he heard 'upon these claims at their Bar, it would be crowded with Custom and Excise Officers, complaining of any alteration in the Revenue Laws. _ . _ Lord REDF.SDALE contended, that these persons ought to he hoard, that they might see whether they had a legal right to their offices. The LORD CHANCELLOR agreed with Lord Redesdale in opinion that the House should hear whether these persons had a right to their offices. The Earl of LIMERICK contended, that this Petitioner was no Officer, but a Clerk of the Court, and removable at pleasure. The Earl of DONOUGIIMORE thought, that if this Bill were passed, it would be most mischievous to Ireland. Lord SID.MOUTII agreed to hear Counsel to the point of the right of Mr. Chancey to the office which be claimed. Dlr. Au enson was then heard as Counsel for the Petitioners. The Earl of DON OUGHMORE said, he would give every opposition to this Bill,beeause it would not correct the enormous extortion and abuse. There was no punishment to be applied to the guilty, nor any insuiry to be made as to who were guilty or not. He moved that the Chairman should report progress, and ask leave to sit again. The LORD CHANCELLOR said, the proper way would be to take the objection to the Bill on a future stage. The House then resumed, and the Committee was ordered to sit again on Wednesday next. A Message from the Commons brought up the South Sea Trade Bill, and the Irish Insolvent Debtors Bill, which were read a first time. The Bankrupt Laws Amendment Bill was lead a second time, and ordered to be committed on Friday neat. The Irish Rate of Interest Bill was read a tbied time and passed. Mr. Om:tart, from the Treasury, presented a Report from the Officers appointed to inquire into the process of Distillation in Ireland. Ordered to lie on the table.—Adjourned till W4.4nesday. HOUSE OF COMMONS. The House was summoned to the House of Peers, to hear the Royal Assent given by Commission to several Public and Private Bills, for which ace the Lord.. Mr. CUR WEN presented a Petition from certain Inhabi tants of Manchester against the Manchester Streets Bill. Sir J. GRAHAM presented similar Petitions from other Individuals, complaining, that the Bill in question interfered with their interests, and praying to be heard by Counsel against the Bill.—Ordered to lie on the table. A Petition was presented from Macclesfield against the Poor Amendment Bill. Mr. J. P. GRANT presented a Petition from an Individual named Fairlie, an Attnrnty, or Writer, in Edinburgh, com plaining, that at the desire of another Writer he had borrowed, as the term is, the Papers in a certain cause from the Clerk of the Court, and handed them over to the person at whose desire he had obtained them, having given his receipt for them to the Clerk of the Court. The Writer to whom he had delivered them, was now in pri , on for debt, and refused. to give up the raper% and the Peritiouer was declared by the Court in con tempt, for not producing them. Under these circumstances, the Petitioner applied to the House for relief.—The Petition was received Mr. II U 3IF. moved for a Return of the Names of Members holding Offices at the pleasure of the Crown, with an account of the Salaries, the date of appointment, and whether held for life or otherwise. The CHANCELLOR of the EX CIIEQUF.E observed, it would be difficult to obtain the information the Honourable :Member required. Mr. BEN NETT said, a circular would obtain all the infor mation required. After a few words froma Mr. BROUGHAM, the motion, with others connected with Pensions, Reversions, and Appointments of ether decriptions were agreed to, and the Returns ordered accordingly. DISSENTERS MARRIAGES. Mr. W. SMITH presented a Petition from certain Dissenters, complaining of the necessity imposed on them of celebrating their Marriages according to the rites of the Established Church, great part of that ceremony being contrary to their religious tenets.-- At the same time that this was a grievous imposition on them, it was of no service to the Public, either in a religious or civil point of view. Now, this evil might easily be remedied, either by permitting par ties, being Unitarians, to omit certain parts of the ceremony, or omitting the ceremony, as a religious rite, altogether, and allowing the contract to be en tered into before the NUnister, and to be registered by bim awe civil contract only. He considered this as a subject so important to the individuals con cerned, that it was worthy the consideration of the House. He should now do no more than move that the Petition behrought up and read. The Petition was accordingly read, and, on the question for its lying on the table, Dr. PHILLIMORE said, if the remedy proposed by this Petition was the same as that proposed some years ago, namely, to omit all the religious part of the ceremony, he should oppose it. He had no ob jection to the Dissenters being put on the same toot ing as the Quakers were. After a few words from Mr. W. SMITH, whe said, he wished the matter to rest till next Session, the Peti tion was ordered to lie on the table, and to be printed. RECEIVERS-GENERAL 01P TAXES. Mv. WHITMORE preseated the Iteport of the 'Committee appointed to inquire into the Office of Re ceiver-General of Taxes, and the system at present followed by them. Mr. BARING was desirous of knowing whether there was any evidence attached to the Report? Mr. WHITNIORE said there was not. Mr. CALCRAFT was desirous of hearing the 'evidence. Mr. W. SMITH said; it was very voluminous, and many parts of it unimportant. Mr. HUME said, the Committee had not attached the evidence to die Report, because the Treasury had intimated that the alterations recommended by the Committee would be adopted. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the Treasury would act up to this declaration; and therefore he did not consider any Parliamentary mea sure as necessary. Mr. BARING considered it was necessary to have the evidence before the House, even if it was not printed, that Gentlemen might have an opportunity of referring to it if they thought fit.. After some conversation between Mr. MACDONA LD, Mr. SMITII (of Lincoln), Mr. J. SMITH, and Mr. W. Smarr, the Report was ordered to be printed. TILE POOR LAWS AMENDMENT BILL. ' Sir ROBERT WILSON presented a Petition from; certain Individuals in the County of Lancaster, com plaining of the Poor Laws Amendment Bill, as a measure calculated to deprive the Poor of their rights, and to oppress them. The Petitioners also strongly condemned the sentiments and docttines laid down by Mr. Malthus, as tending to demoralize the Poor. The gallant General supported the prayer of the Petitioners. Mr. BROUGHAM had hoped, after what passed the other night, his Hon. and gallant Friend would have refrained from expressing opinions on this sub ject likely to excite clamour, which, however pure his motive might be, could not fail to be injurious to the Poor themselves. The gallant General had said so much on the temperate and respectful language of this Petition, that he was reluctant to say anything on that subject ; but he must reprobate some of the arguments used by them, in which they assumed to be the mortgagees of the land, and that, till they were provided for, no other person had any claim upon it. He also reprobated the clamour raised against Mr. Malthus, as regarded the marriages of the Poor ; and he must be allowed to say, the present system of Poor Rates was such as did encourage the Poor to contract marriages, without considering how they were afterwards to maintain the children they might have, trusting to the Poor Rates for support and assistance, or rather reconciling themselves to the idea of having their children supported out of the property of others. He considered this as much a species of dishonesty as it would be for a person to go into a shop to purchase goods, not having any prospect of paying for them. He considered that it was the duty of the poor man well to consider before he married how he was to maintain the children he might have; and Mr. Malthus did no more than recommend the poor man, for his own sake, to adopt that course. Colonel WOOD thought the Hon. Gentleman who brought forward this Bill had been hardly treated ; a prejudice had been attempted to be raised against the measure, which it will be found on consideration 'not to deserve. He was sorry the Hon. Gentleman had postponed it so long. It now stood for next 1 Thursday, but the Member for Carlisle had a Motion standing before it for that day—the Repeal of the Agricultural Horse Tax, and he hoped the Honour able Member would give way to this more impor tant subject. Mr. CURWEN declared he could not give way l on this occasion. Sir J. GRAHAM hoped his Hon. and Learned Friend would not fail to press this important measure. All the correspondence he had had on the subject, proved to him that the measure was highly approved out of doors. Mr. MANSFIELD said, he supposed the Honour able Baronet only spoke of his correspondence with Carlisle, and not of the communications he had re ceived from Leeds. Sir R. HERON thought the country were greatly obliged to his Hon. Friend for bringing forward this measure; still, however, he hoped time would be given for consideration, and that it would noibe now pressed through during the present Session. Mr. SCARLETP defended his Bill. He did not expect to have an unanimous opinion in favour of it ; but he might say that he had had as extensive a correspondence on this subject as any individual pre sent ; and this he must say, that even in the neigh bourhood of Leeds a majority had favoured his Bill as far as it went ; though his correspondents from that quarter, as well as others, wished to add some thing to it. The Hon. and Learned Member ob served, that he was only desirous to do what he could ; others might add to the measure hereafter. — One thing he must notice, and that was the difference between the rates in agricultural and manufacturing districts. In Lancashire, where the population was upwards of 830,000, the Poor Rate was £230,000 ; whilst, in Sussex, where the population was only 1 290,000, the rate was £240,000. Mr. MAXWELL said that, in his country, the law was now such as the Hon. and Learned Gentleman would make it here. The country was inundated with numbers of Irish labourers, who depreciated the price of labour, because they could work cheap, as they did not set a high value upon the comforts or conveniences of life. There was one provision which he would recommend, and that was, that those master manufacturers who induced men to settle in towns, should be obliged to give a guarantee that those men would not, one day or other, become a burthen to, the parish. He thought it proper to state these facts, but he did not feel at liberty to vote on this Bill, as he had no property in this country. Mr. CALCRAFT said he was a friend to the Poor Laws, and he did not think the Pools' Rate so great a grievance as it was generally represented. He there fore looked upon the Learned Gentleman's Bill with suspicion, as lie was afraid it was calculated to cut up these laws by the root. Sir R.WILSON was against the House making any' further progress in this measure this Session, it being one of great importance, and one which' 'demanded the most serious discussion. With regard to the pro visions of the Bill,.he would say that, in his opinion; the•greatest inconveiiience would result from destroy-, ing the Settlement Laws, and suffering those area ing vagrants to remain. By this anomalous legis lation the pauper who could not obtain relief from any parish under the new law, might, on his passage, make out work in another parish, be taken up and punished as a vagrant. He hoped the Hon. and Learned Gentleman would give his attention to that subject, and that, in addition to taking away the pro vision from the poor man, he would not also subject him to a severe and arbitrary punishment. Sir J. NEWPORT thought that, for the present, this subject had better be dropped, for it was not one upon which a discussion at the present moment would be either useful or desirable, particularly when so much other weighty public business stood upon the paper. Mr. HUME felt indignant that the Right Hon. Baronet should regret an hour lost from other public business, when the Poor Laws, a subject of such vital and primary importance, was under discussion. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY supported the adjournment of the discussion. Mr. GURNEY said, that feeling as he did the most unmixed abhorrence for the Bill of the Honour able and Learned Member his voice should be not for its temporary postponement* but for suppressing it' altogether. Indeed, it was a measure, in his opinion, so full of injustice and absurdity, that he thought the person must have been in a state of unqualified insa ' nity, who had brought it in. Mr. SCARLET"' said, that after this discuss:on there was no danger but that, if the Bill was not at tended with publicity, it would at least be v ith singu larity, for some Members had taken a course in their remarks upon it, which, thank GOD, was little known in Parliament—(Hear). Mr. MONCK thought the most effectual way of relieving the poor was by taking off some of the' taxes, I ,articulaily those on the necessaries of life. Mr. F. PALMER offered to prove that the cages of the poor were inadequate to their support through out the year, at an averaged calculation of employ. Sir J. SEBRIGIIT contended that the evil last complained of arose out of the system of the Poor Laws themselves. The labourer would have enough to support his family if he only husbanded his means; but whilst the parish support was in view, like an heir who had an estate entailed upon him, the bourer lost all consideration of the future—fllear). The Petition was then laid upon the table, and or. dered to be printed. WAltli AND MEANS. The CHANCELLO R of the EXCHEQUER moved the Order of the Day for receiving the Report of the Committee of Ways and Means. Mr. Scrjeant ONSLOW said, he was convinced no one would suspect him of wishing to postpone or check the. progress of public business; but his mo tion for the .second reading of the Usury Laws Re peal Bill. had precedence to-day, and he had so fre quently poitponed it, to the inconvenience of many Gentlemen, that he was bound in honour not to give way. .He hould therefore move, as an Amendment, that the Usury Laws Bill be now read a second time. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY was ready to acknowledge the courtesy of the Learned Gentleman, and was sorry he could not now meet him in the same spirit ; but the Supply was a question which pressed on the House, and must be attended to, whilst the Honourable Gentleman could not expect to pass his Bill during the present Session. Mr. DAVENPORT hoped the Bill would be dis cussed now, or abandoned for the present Session. Sir R. HERON was of the same opinion. Mr. BENNETT thought if the Hon. and Learned Member now gave way to the Report of the Ways and Means, he should afterwards be allowed to bring on his Motion ; as, whether the Miscellaneous Esti mates were discussed to-day, on Monday, onWednes ' day, or on Wednesday fortnight, was of no great im portance ; for what with Motions on one day, and Supplies on the other, not a single day was kft open, 1 6 eyore midnight, for an individual to bring foi ward a measure of useful legislation ; and, at midnight, up jumped the Member for Coventry, or some other Member, and objected to going into this or that ques tion at so late an hour, on the grounds of its import ance. Thus, between the white and black hairs, there was nothing at all left to a poor man. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY denied that ' the inconvenience arose from the conduct of his Ma jesty's Government. If the Hon. Gentleman would prevail on the Hon. Member for Coventry to refrain from moving the adjournment at twelve, or if he could induce his Hon. friend, the Member for Aber deen, to compress what he had occasion at intervals to offer to the House into a smaller space---(A laugh) —there would be time to accommodate every indi vidual, as there formerly was. After a few words from Mr. CatvEnT, Mr. ABER CROMBIE, and Mr. Serjeant Otis Low, the latter con sented to postpone the further proceedings on his Bill till next Session. The Order of the Day for receiving the Report of the Ways and Means was then read. Lord A. HAMILTON said, he must call the atten tion of the Right Hon. Gentleman to a Bill recently passed—the Ale and Beer Duty Bill, as pressing most heavily and unfairly on the Scotch Bieweries. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the Bill in question passed early in the Session, and there had been abundant time for making any repre sentations on the subject. Mr. MAXWELL said, he had forwarded repre sentations to the Board of Excise on the subject. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the Board of Excise, no doubt, acted as the Act directed. Mr. J. P. GRANT objected to the Board of Excise being made the interpreters of an Act of Parliament. Mr. MABERLEY enumerated the expenses of the last year for the various branches of the public sec." vice ; and said, there had been an excess on the Mis cellaneous Estimates of £362,000 above the estimates of the Hon. Gentleman. That had arisen from the Ways and Means having been voted first ; but, for all that surplus, only 1.81,000 had been carried to the expense of the current year. But from the surplus of last year £460,000 should have been carried to the present year. That should be guarded against in another year ; and that was to be done by voting the Supplies before the Estimates of the Budget should be brought on. On the Taxes there had been a deft• ciency of £900,000; and there was no chance that ' the tax on tea would; being in £500,000. He hoped the House would pause, before receiving the Report, till the matter was cleared up. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that there had always been some difference betwee„ the sum calculated and actually realised. Pn rrneri the disembodied Militia had been provided for eqtc Y , f the Land Tax ; and that not being the case r. ,, p,b ad necessarily led to a difference. All the v, es 1 .,, d passed through the Committc:2 (4 . Supply, a „d wen subject to the controul of the House in every st , ze. 01 late years, a much treater apploach to reguh tr i ty had taken place than formerly. If the Honourabl e Member would turn to the accounts, he would f i nd that the annual taxes had prnduced last year three millions. Ile had much lea , (11 to believe that the statement he had made last Ft iday would be fi nzd substantially correct. Mr. MA BLit LEV said, the difference betwee n e l estimate for the Miscellaneous Services this year ant the former had been an cam, of 1:370,050 i n the present above the last year, instead of a ,!ituu t „ t i o , of £52,000, as had been stated by the Chancellor c f the Exchequer. Sir J. NEWPORT wished that attention shonldbe paid to the arrears of public balances, in orde r to make them available to the public scrvice. The Report was then brought up. Mr. J. P. GRANT said, his "rm. stated that there had been a surplus of E 370,00 0% the Miscellaneous Services; and the Right Ho lm , able Gentleman had accounted for the expendittat of that suns, by its application to pay OF the disembo. died Militia; but of that the Right lion. Ge:;tlem al must have been a-Nare, and sliould have siated rt s o t h e House. These was abundance of s ; 'ecul. dion, b ur no man could accurately know what was the men or the din,inution of the Revenue. The Ch a. of the Exchequer had stated, that we were the ' is l e country in Europe that had paid off debt; but he was of opinion, that, on the whole, a material addi. tion had been made to the Public De:it—Wear, hall. The couuu y was now more in debt by seven a illions than at the close of the war ; all the sesoioces s.f the country had been exhausted ; and it would be found, by linking to the year 1792, that where Mi.Pittkert two men, the present Ministers kept three: The CIIA NCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER sail, that the House had not heard, cut the first time, the assertions of the Hon. Member. Such as lad been often made, and as often refuted in that Honte. Unless the I lon.Gentleman would explain how a Ism bee of extraordinary charges had been defrayed,he bad no right to maintain that debt had been contracted. Mr. MA BERLEY said, that though there wail surplus of three millions on the Sinking Fund, tha had been created by the new Taxes. Of the ua funded Debt there was a million less now than had been its 1816. But that was also to be ascribed to the £3,200,000 dint had accrued from the new 'faxes. He trusted that next year there would be a distils tion of three or four millions on the Estimates, frost the reductions that %%mild be made in every brand of the public sers ice. On the Vote for the Lottery of 1:160,003, Mr. HUME objected stiongly to the giant and thought it ought not to be tolerated by the House. lie believed it would be of no avail to take the sense of the House.—The Vote was agreed to; as also the , other Resolutions. COMMUNICATION FROM THE DIME OF CLAREVCE. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY moved the Order of the Day for the House to resolve itself into a Committee on the Commuhication sent down by his Royal Highness the Duke of Clarence. He ob served, that in submitting this motion to the House, it would be necessary for him to call the attention of Honourable Members to the vote ot Supply to the Royal Dukes in the year 1818, which rose out of 1 Message from his Majesty. At that time, the Dukes of Cambridge and Clarence were on the pint of get ting married, and it was found necessary to make suitable pi °vision for them ; as also for the Duke of Kent, who, two months afterwards, had changed hi condition. .Upon that occa jon it became his (the Marquis of Londonderry's) duty to propose a mote enlarged scale of provision than had pi eviousl hen established.—Here the Noble Marquis was reminded, that the question had not been put for the Speaker to leave the Chair, and it being accordingly put in the usual manner, Mr. MONCK rose and said, he wished to impress upon the House the expediency of resisting any fur ther grant to the Must, hors Duke. He wished tore mind them of the statement made on a pievions night by the Right Hon. Gentleman, the Chancellor ,of the Exchequer, that the country was not in a sh tuition to comply with the demands of the Amet icao Loyalists, although he could not deny that they were Ibunded hi justice. It, therefore, we Louid not afford to pay our just debts, lie did not think that the House might still to agree to an act which was not one of justice, hut of mete grace and favour—t Hear, hear). Besides, the present was a most unseasonable timeto urge the claims. It was during the Administration of Mr. Fox that the 1:6000 had been added to the £12,000 a-year, before settled as the provision for the junior branches of the Royal Family. This had been done expressly on account of the inctease which had taken place on all the at titles of lite ; but now that the improved state of our currency br o ught things to their former level, he saw no reason for any aug mentation. There was another objection that related to the Prince himself, which ought to be duly come dered. It seemed that we lived in a censorious tvorld, and people were disposed to view the faults and frail ties of Princes, however exalted, with a mictoscopiu eye, Ile would put it to the House, whether, con sidering the marked and decided conduct of :he Royal Duke during a late trial, coupled with the motion now before the House, the Public might not be duccd to impute motives to him not in accordance with that high duty, which there could be no il. , abt he was anxious to discharge, 6:it with his own Per' sonal interest —(Cheer:).—He (Mr. Monck) should certainly oppose the motion for the Right Howse. able Gentleman's leaving the Chair. The question was then i.ut, and the motion being agreed to, the House resolved itself into a Comiertet. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, wocl.l make no reply to the speech ot the Hou. GentleaLur who had just sat down, but would leave a to he treated by the House with the neglect it destsrvel Be wished now to recal the attention of Hon. Members t o that which was the real question b..fere the !loose; and before he did so, lie must obset ye, that the al lowance made for the Royal Dukes at the period ad verted to by the Hon. Genial:man, contemplated their unmat vied, and not their married state. lu the year ISIS, the House, though not agreeing to the proPO ..-Mks:..