Star. — London, England, 1831-09-24 00:00:00

, 1.. '!I )1 , t ~;. BANKRUPTCY COURT RTT.T.. , z that It might be advisable to make the bill come into operation in March next year, rather than in October in the present year. The Duke of RTCTIMOND mid great inconrenience would ad.. from the adoption of the course proposed by the noble duke. The hill legalised the rale of game, and up to that hone he hail beard no objection to that provision. Oc whet, November, and December, might be called the game sea.on. (ir plan.itlea of game would no doubt be ex posed roe *male, end could they call upon the magistrates to p0r.1.11 P r•trota who mid it, whilst there appeared on their .ta•nte hook a bill to make the sale lawful. The ma. gi‘tr Itc-4, under 'itch circumstances, would feel a strang de tn rivnid puttintt the law in force. The noble duke bad n toll hr one of the game salesmen, that last year he sold 2.090 held of game. That fact alone prov:xl the demand f tivy article. and there was no denying that the market 11.-.0 he mt.-eked The 3ittrntti‘ of SALISBURY thought they might will rste the bill anti page into a law that part which made the a 31.• of game letral Lord SU F FT E LT) could not consent to delay fora pink tl.ty the operation of the Bill. He knew the duty the Inntligtratett had to disvharee• It wa' , nyeelwa'Y that the •sle of genie should he leealiztsl, but he could by no means slow a part of the 111;11 to be aw , pended. After a f.w o! , •ereationa from the Earl of CARN AR. I'ON, the 13111 wws referred to a select committee. • The said committee was notninAted instanter. PREPARATIn74II FOR TILE REFORM Elul.. The Earl cf StIAFTESBUIIY read the report of a committe of the house, recommending their lordships to nthiress his 'Majesty, in order to procure the erection of side galleries. for the accommodation of Peers during the pro gress of the Reform 13ill. The Committee recommended the erection of a gallery on each side of the House, similar to those erected in 1820, at the trial of Queen Caroline. BEER BILL. The Rad of H ARPOWBY rose on the order of the day fur receiving the report of the Beer Bill, and proposed to amend the first clause by insetting words to the effect, that bnr.bouvs be shut on Sunday, during the usual hours in the morning and evening when Divine &tyke takes place. The noble earl alsreproposed to remedy a defect. Th 2 law prohibited, he said, the sale of wine and spirits In beer. houses, but did net prevent the consumption. It had been discovered that spirits had been given away In the beer. He therefore proposed to insert in the licence that no wine or spirits be consumed in the said houses. The noble earl having proposed clauses containing his amendments, the same were added to the Bill, which, after a few words from Viscount Melbourne, was ordered to be plinted with the amendments. The house went in - to committee again upon the Bank r:totcy Court Bill. Lord AVYNFOTZD rose to discharge his ditty with res rert to this bill, and to state the objections which he bad allulltd to upon a former occasion. In the first cl tuse of the hill it was pmposed to form a new c mrt. He had :twat-W.4y opposed alterations of the courts then consti. ruled for the Ju , lvs of the land. A new court could be productir of no possible good, but a great deal of ex pense. It would be an addition to the expenses of the country to toe amount of nine thousand pounds a year, witic't was to b. , taken front the Suitors' Fund. To his opinion. they had no right to take the money front the Suitors' Fund for such a purpose. The money was to come from that hind at a time when very large claims were fixed upon it. There was no necessity for the creation of such a court, consequently thera could be no pretence for making t:te Su'tor's Fund applicable to the expanse. It could not I.e necessary when business was done with the facility it was at present. There bad been no complaint of the judgments tinder the present system, and it was not possible the public wonti hay- the sante confidence in the decisions of new kuloes.—The N 07.?.. and Learned Lord, in stating his ob jections to the m..ssure. said, he had been informed by per. runs residing in Lo::tion well acquainted with the fact, that the 'traders of London generally were opposed to the Bill, especially to that anise of it which provided for the ap pointment of official assignees. He then concluded by moving. as an amendment, that all those words in the first douse which bad reference to the appointment of a new Court be left nut. The LORD CHANCELLOR said, he should take oc casion briefly to go over the statements he had made the ether night, in consequence of the absence of the Noble •"1 Learned Lord (Wynford). In doing so, his Lord shin took occasion to observe. that the Court at Review In tended to be established under the new system, although .it might, in .the absence of other business, sit cn cases from the 'Vim Chancellor's. yet the Court would not be superseded. It was also proposed that judgments delivered in the Court of Review might be appealed from to the' Great Seal. After some converts ion between the Duke of Wellington, Lord radon, and the Lord Chancellor, respecting the patent rights or Lord Thurlow's successors, Lord PLUNK ETT supported the measure, and spoke oil the necessity of granting compensation to those parties who should be injured by it. After a remark from Lord WI'NFORD the amendment was negatived without a division. The report was then ordered to be brought np to-morrow (this day) or Monday. The bill to be read a third time on Tucsday. Adjourned at Half-past Eight o'Clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Col. TORRENS said he wished to make some observe tinns on what had been said by a learned gentlemen (Sir C. Wetherell) in his absence on the observations he had made at tie Common-hall. He there said, that if the desire of the people for reform should go on increasing, as he was mod tient it would. and if 'he Lords continued obstinately to le ftise compliance with the wishes of the people, the Lords themselves might be p it in schedule A. He would wish tie learned gentleman, in the fertility of his fancy, to in. vent a term that would more mildly express what might C en become the state of things in this country. Sir C. WETHERF.LL said, his fancy could not lead him to imagine any state of things which could place the Lords in schedule A, that would not at the same time destroy liouse of Commons, the institutions of the country, and ter church. (Hear.) If the Peers of England were now %lint their ancestors were, they would act without fear. And it would require all the fancy of the gallant officer to sup pi se that they should be placed in the schedule A of some kiwi:int& set of the Howe of Commons. (Hear.) fir. JOHNSToNE presented a petition from the Fife dh.!riet of burghs, against disfranchisement of the Eastern P.fe district of Burghs. Vol. LINDSAY presented a petition from the burgh of Kilready a !aims distianchisement. Sir ROBERT PR YCE reported from the Pembroke shire Election Committee, declaring that the election was void. and that the conduct of the High Sheriff was marked by culpable neglect, and that of his Under Sheriff by t .rooi partiality, and that of the Assessor by inefficiency. 31r. JA MRS asked, whether the hon. member or the Committee meant to bring the subject before the House on the evidence? Sir ROBERT PRYCE said, Ihe meant to move that the minutes'ef evidence be laid before the House; but lie slid not mean to proceed further, as he thought it cer tain that the next election would be conducted with strict correetnes, Mi. BLACKNEY said, it would be very improper to trod the writ to the same returning officer. 3lr. D. BROWN said, as one of the Committee, the thought it would be a severe thing on the electors and the candidates to issue a new writ to the sante Sheriff. Sir OF.OlttlE W tRRENDEK thought, iu justice to the High Sberiff, the Committee, the electors, the can didates, and the House, the evidence should be called for and printed. Sr R. PRYCE moved, that the minutes of evidence be laid on the table and be printed.--Agreed to. Sir O. htURR AY presented a petition from the Univer sity of Edinburgh, praying that the House would grant Se presentative% to the Scotch Universities. 31r. DUNDAS heartily concurred in the prayer of the petition. Sir WILLIAM RAE supported the petition, and pre. tented a similar petition from the University of St. An. drew's. The Lord ADVOCATE said no one could be more fa. vourable to the prayer of the petition than he was ; the sub ject had been under consideration, and the result, and the reasons for that result, should be stated to the house when the prop r time came. Mr. WA RBUR'fON said, the best way of judging the propriety of giving representatives to the Scotch universities would be to look at The conduct of the English universities. lie thought they returned members for their party poli tics, nor fur literature or science; be should therefore oppose tate motion. Sir U WARREN DER thought the prayer of the peti. tit ion should be complied with. Sir J. WALSH gave notice that be would move, before; the Scotch reform bill should go into committee, that it be an instruction to the committee to provide for the repre sentation of the Scotch universities. BELGIUM. • Sir R. VIVYAN gave notice that, on Monday, he should put a question to the Noble Secretary for Foreign Affairs, respecting French officen being allowed to remain in Belgium. REFORM 111 PCOTLAND BILL. The Lord ADVOCATE nutted the order of the day for the second reading of the Scotch reform bill. Mr. GOULBURN asked when the Irish reform bill wee to be read a second time. Lord A LTHORP said he wished to c msult the conve nience of the house whether the Scratch bill should be first disposed of, or whether the Scotch and Irish should be taken alternately. The order of the day having been read, The LORD ADVOCATE rose.—He said he role to move, in the terms of the order which had just been read, that the Bill to amend the Representation of Scotland be read a second time; and certainly when he looked to what the state of that representation was now.—and to what it had been ever since the Union at least, (and In his apprehension lung before that period), and to the nature of the changes proposed by this measure, he should not have considered his taste an arduous one to induce every Member of the House to =lent to it; but that it was impossible not to know that there hail been already certain indication of displeasure, not at any of its details, but to the whole measure, and to discourage the introduction of any means of relief for Scotland, in the speech of some Honourable Members in this House. He believed the House and country had bet.' long aware of the defects of the representative sys tem of Scotland, but from the opportunities be had of judging, he believed the House and the country hpd but a very imperfect idea of the almost incredible extent of the defects of that system. Such was the state of that system of representation, that It was surprising how it could have existed so long in the neighbourhood of such a country as England, of which, too, it formed an integral part. The right hon. baronet opposite had spoken of the Scotch repre sentation as if it was like the nomination boroughs, and it was under the controul of the Aristocracy, and was chiefly valuable as an antidote to the too democratic represents. tion of England. It was certainly true that the repre. sensation of Scotland was not a democratic representation; it only reprtscoted an insignificant oligarchy, not generally connected with the landed interest of the country. (Hear.) The wholes cons itueney of the thirty counties consisted of hut 3,000 votes, and many of the electors had votes foe difFetent counties, so that the whole number of electors consisted of no more than about 2,500 persons. The electors for the burghs were about 1,440 for 66 burghs, being 22 tor each. The whole number of electors for Scot. land could t ot be more than about 4,500. It was impossible ; that such a number coulo form a constituency expressing the ophilaas and feelings of the people. (Hear, hear.) ; But the qualification of the electors rendered this still Mee possible. The qualification in the counties was holdhig- a l essperiority over lands in general possessed by others ; with perhaps a charge of a penny or a shilling a year; so that more than half the electors for counties bad no interest in the soil. In Argyll the number of voters was 119, of whom 54 had no ptopeny in the land.—ln Bute there were 21 voters, only one of whom had property. At one election there was but one elec or, and that one was the Sheriff. He called the , roll—the one answered—he proposed and seconded the can. Ididate, voted fur him, and made a unanimous return.— (Great laughter.) The same thing might occur again.— Hear, hear.) In Caithness there were forty-two voters, —thirty-six had no property. In Dumbarton, the whole vote's were seventy-one—fifty-seven having no property.— The whole of the counties were in nearly the same propor tion ; decidedly more than one-half the electors had no property in the land.— (Hear, bear, hear.) This state of franchise was most injurious to res ident landowners, and the proportion of voters having no property was constantly increasing, and the elections were falling into the hands of persolis who had no connection with the land. The superi urities were frequently purchaeed by attoenies for the sake of profit. In the burghs these was no popular election. The elections were all made by office bearers ; and all the Aloe bearers elected their successors. Glasgow, which contained 200,000 inhabitants, and as much of wealth and intelligeice as any 200,000 inhabitants out of the metropolis of the pire, (Hear) had but thirty-three electors; and even that body had no power to do more•than concur with three other rowns in the election of one member. In Edinburgh the election was also in thirty-three skitters, almost all ranking below the middle class. The.other principal towns wen similarly circumstanced. Such a state of representation was so vicious and indefensible, as to make its extent a matter of surprise; and to any person to whom it was stated for the first time, without ate ng evidence, of incredulity. (Hear.) Yet he supposed they would be told that under the fostering care of these representatives Scotland had flourished.— (Hear, hear.) Scotland had certainly flourished and been Feverous under this state of representation; but would any man endeavour to connect that prosperity with her state of representation ? Would any man say it was by deprive Mg her people of the right of electing their dill that Scotland prospered ? (Hear, beer.) He believed that the system was detrimental to Sc otland ; that she never had any benefit from her representative system. The feudal times might be passed over. Before the Union of the Crowns, there was no materials for representation ; but from the Union of the Crowns to the Union of the Kingdoms, the state of Scotland was one of degradation and compassion.— ( Hear, hear, hear.) Scotland, In all ages, had more than her share f eminent writers ' • she had her eminent war riors, and eminent men ; but she had no Pali& mentary heroes ; they were excluded by the defects of her representation. (Hear.) The consequence was not merely in oppression, but the degradation which gave oppression lace. punity (Hear, hear.) During the succession of braveness.' liberty in England, Scotland exhibited little more than the strength of her religious feeling. Her people *hewed indif ference to political rights; but became heroes when religion was invaded. The Union of the kingdoms was a bargain hard on the part of the more powerful nation ' and consented to from no creditable motives on the part of the weaker. England retained her 513 members, and Scotland bad her 157 diminished to 45. (Hear.) No doubt her representa tion was absorbed in the English; but it was transplanted into a nobb soil. ( Hear, hear.) The rights of Scotland were at least brought to view, and committed to the ears of the body of English representatives. Under the imperfect representation many noble-minded persons were returned, and benefits were conferred on Scotland ; but in his tome science he believed the case would be the same if the forty-five Scotch members were returned by the Sone reign or the Commander of the Forces. (Hear, hear.) Benefits were conferred oo Scotland by their representatives, as high minded despots often confer benefits on their slaves. But the representatives did not derive their right from the people, and were not accountable to them. The crying rail, however, was not the independerce of the represents. tires of their constituents • but it was the alienation of the whole people of Scot land from their representative system. (Hear.) For more than 50 years after the union, the deadness of the people.of Scotland to public questions was almost incredible. Since then la public opt lion was growing up, but it was wholly apart from any connection with the Government, and it was hitherto neglected by all the upper classes of society It had now, however sheers itself' in a manner more atrorgly than in any other part of the kingdom. (Hear, hear, hear.) An honourable member had said, the people of Scotland were Indif. ferent on the question of Reform. He really believed, that the feeling in favour of Reform was deeper and stronger its Scotland than any other part of the United Kingdom; and amongst all thinking people of Scotland, the almost univer sal opinion was, that reform was mote urgently necessary' for Scotland than fur any part of England ; and be believed any disappointment of their hopes would be attended with more serious consequences than in any part of England.—. (Hear, hear.) He testified this with pain, but he thought it his duty to testify it as a matter of tact. (Hear.) He should now explain the change it was proposed to make in the present system of representation in Scotland. He believed the House would agree in the °pintos, that the change was a boon to Scotland, and a benefit to the empire. The whole system of Scotch representation was bad, and the principle , of the bill was, that no tag or thread—no jot or tittle of le should remain. (Hear, hear.) Was there any tiles alarming to the most timid in this ? (Hear, heaw) Tie bin would say that forty or Any electors In a sweaty, whe had no property in it, should not exclude two as thousand proptieton, and who would say tbst was Set right ? (Hear. hem.) The bill would say that IP deems In a borough should not exclude some thousiod lobs Intents, and who would say that was wrong? (Hear. The particulars of the bill were already before the bas t hl the printed copy, and be should not enter into mesh do t tall. The occupancy of land of 101. value would Ove vote foe mind's, and the occupancy of a house of 101. vs lue would girt a vote in a town. Glasgow, that had now 1111 electors, for estelourth of a member, by the bill world bate 5000 or 6000 electors and two members to itself, Edinberygh would also have two members, and Aberdeen, Paisley, Dundee, and Greenock, would each have one member. In eeply to the argument used on the other side. in the debate on the English Reform Bill, of some small places being al lowed to return Members, which was also the case in the Scotch Bill, he would say it was done on the principle that regulated all human affairs, expedienesr. They only cut offs,. presentation in extreme eases, and allowed it to continua to places where it would not be given if it was not already pos. Nosed ; they a/so gave au addition of five 31embers to the whole representation, which it was hoped• would be re ceived with satisfaction.—(Hear, hear.) He should not now enter into matters of detail, which he hoped would soon be discussed on more fitting occasions. Unless any of these matters were such objections as to amount to a total rejec tion of the bill, he thought they should not be allowed to In tet fere with the second reading of the bill ; and he should, therefore, not longer detain the house, but move that the bill be read a second time. (The loudest cheering followed.) Mr. C. DOUGLAS said, be was anxious to avoid enter. ing into the details of the bill, and should oppose the princi ple, botif the bill were to be carried, he should make a much larger claim for increased representation than was made by the bill. He was ready to admit that a greet excitement existed in Scotland on the subject of reform,which he thought was pro duced by means calculated to mislead the judgment. (Hear.) Improvement in the representation of Scotland was certainly desired ; but the clialve proposed by the bill would destroy vast he might call the domestic contentment of the coun ties of Scotland. (lieu, heir.) The learned lord had admitted that Scotland had prospered under the present system. Sac had, indeed passed front a state of barrenness .to fertility—from poverty to wealth--and, above all, from rebellion to devoted loyalty. The learned lord had given the worst possible description of the Scotch eltctois. Many electors could not vote out of their own land because ano ther had the superiority ; but it did not follow that the bolder of the superiority might not also be a landed propel s/tn. If the superiority could he given to the proprietor of the land, it would be a great advantage; but the superiority constituted a property ; and the land was sold fur less from being separated from the superiority. Still Scotland had in creased so much since the union, that her excise and commis were now fifty-fold. He thought the bill an attack on the landed interests of Scotland by its onion of counties. The county of Bute was to be annexed with Dumbartonshire. which exceeded in population two of the Scotch counties, taken together, which were to return one member each, and was also more populous titan two of the English counties, having two members each. Tie thought himself entitled to claim sixty members for Scotland, on grounds as strong es an increase of members in England had been given. He must also obj ect to giving • representation to house pro. petty in Scot land. At least it s'tould be on • different footing from land-101. in land was equal to 201. in house property. The farmers of Scotland were deserving of the highest gratitude of their countrymen, but he thought giving them the franchise would not be a benefit, and was not desired by them/ The hon. gent. concluded by moving that the Bill be read a second time that day six months. Mr. RA MSAY supported the motion. Mr. GI LLON supported the original motion. Sir GEOItGE WARRF.NDP.R said he bad changed his opinion on Scottish Reform; because when he gave his first opinion he had acted upon information on which he thought he could have depeaded ; but on the same information, he now acknowledged that Reform was necersary fur Scotl and. Mr. K. DOUGLAS said he did not think it would be expedient to oppose the second reading; but in the details of the Bill there were many things that he thought he might find fault with. Mr. FERGUSON congratulated his countrymen that the fictitious representation which had been so often reproached to Scotland, and which was the work of unfaithful commis slunets at the time of the Union, was row to be commuted for a furl, fair, and true representation. Their English and Irish friends bad often shaken hands with them on the score of hi spitality, but they would now do so on the score of political independence.—(Hear.) Colonel LINDSAY denied that the reform would lead to any practical benefit in Scotland. Scotland was already a happy country ; her lower orders were industrious, enlight ened, and attached to their humane and beneficent aristo cracy. He complained of the prepondence given to the town voters over the agricultural. He did not consider five addi. tional members a counterpoise for the lose Scotland sustained by the disfranchisement of the English close boroughs, many of which returned Scotch gentlemen to Parliament. Scotland was only to have fifty members, while England was to have 487, though her population in 1821 was to that of England as two to twelte, atid lierartresat as Ara to forty-icon. He dealed that t h ere was naturally a feeling in favour of reform in Scotland. In the course of the ten years previous to the introduction of the bill, only three or four petitions praying for reform had been presented from Scotland. Sir C. GRANT said, there had existed in Scotland for several years past a feeling that some change must take place in the state of her representation. The represents. don of Scotland was at present a mere monopoly in the bands of an oligarchy. Her population, however, was as enlightened and independent as that of the rest of the cm- Ore. It would not be generous or just in the House to re fuse that to her which they gave to England. He trusted they would grant to Scotland the boon for which she was so anxious, and that they would thus rivet those bands which, he hoped, would be eternal between the two as dess,--(Cbeers). lie G. CLERK denied that the county representation of needles* was a mo :opoly; it represented fully the landed in elsest. appealed to the growing prosperity of Scotland es a proof of the excellence of her constitution. It bad been hitherto the grand argument of the reformers, that their principle was conservative • but the Lord Advocate now boasted that not a vestige o f old system in Scotland was to be retained. He did not wish to enter into the details of the bill .he would not anticipate those labours which were so fitting for the consideration of the Committee; but be could not avoid expressing the greatest anxiety respecting the Wens of a bill which left no part of the representation of Scotland untouched and unchanged. He very much feared that the reform now proposed would very materially affect the good understanding that heretofore existed be tween the different classes of society. The excitement that existed in Scotland had been occasioned by the bill; but he hesitated not to say that if it were withdrawn, the people of Scotland would soon return to that respect for their representatives, and that tranquillity which they had so long enjoyed. But be the'result what it might, he doubted not that the evils of the bill would be found to far outweigh its advantages. (Hear.) The effect of this bill would be com pletely to destroy the agricultural and landed interest.. of Scotland, and to throw the influence into the hands of the 101. householders. That he deemed would be a great mis chief. Public opinion, democratic feeling, had previously exerted quite sufficient influence in, as well as out of that house. (Hear.) To increase that influence, he thought, would be prejudicial. Having voted against the English bill in all its stages, and considering that this measure was only a part of the bill, and as this measure proposed so ma terially to alter the qualification, he should oppose It in all its stages. (Hear, bear.) Sir .I. MACKINTOSH strongly supported the bill, is calculated to uphold the rights and Interests, the character and honour of the country. Its merits had been narrated with great eloquence and philueophical calmness by the Lord Advocate. It left nothing to be said in support of the principle of the bill. It had been mortifying to ficotehmen to bear what had been said respecting the non-representation of their country; but he hoped the cause for tharmortifica don was about to be destroyed for ever. He would not be led into the details of the bill, though many mambas bed indulged in comments on them. Ile should like to bear some English member on this subject. Would any one say that that was a good out free government where there wee se popular representation ? There was DO five or popular rows. 'caution in Scotland; he therefore contended that there wee no good government for Scotland; the representation now pre. s!ewas submitted because Scotland was entitled to IL _ , hear.) The improvident and present eendition et sti did not result from the present state et the repo- Natation—it was what it had been in the 17th slim —but front the union with England. and the exam* et a bee ceestry.—( Hear.) Such wu the state of the isipost of Scotland, that the grossest abuses in BROM WM UM. plan perfection compared with the sen.itigated and neentnnil evils of the repeessahude• of flenuand.—(Bear, bow}: The repeats ads. eteepiesi bed hew tweatel se* emit cones saw Qmellle hard been penhasett kw the purpose et sew suasestidly *Mpg urged * tie to sisesp res g i t&-- And what ebjecties emit be amend sub a ones of w'e'pt'. P To st aha mead reading et the 818, mild be to declare that the people of Illeetiond were unfit to pewees good govetement ; Ace and popular be eeetioded, ossethuting an mass pert --(Hear, haw) r. S. ir0 . 19 . 17= 1 be bad abiagibmi waguipm ethis bin but be did not deem thls the stage se prip the width be bad to oar. The entunet=tereleflet reknit in Ragland did not apply to there m isted the greatest uniformity in the ropesummies. log parts of it were bad, decidedly bad, nothing could be worse than the borough representation of Scotland. He should not oppose the second reading. g;rMURRA.If mad, should be enter into the details of the Bill—that would be toeing occupation of time—for he had the most decided objection to the principle of the Bill. Ha felt great interest In the English Bill—but he felt smirch strange proposed :, lteyse r : id lo, a, and to sewn time . , the Bill ished ham to remark, that be had before expressed that he Watt net altogether against reform in Scotland—he should OM Select to a modification of the representation of Scot .hut he did object to the complete abandonment of the system prescribed by the present bill. (Hear.) From that total change he apprehended that the most fearful results would ensue. The electors were not numerous, but cer- Offaly they were not under the controul of any oligarchy. Tin constituency, he contended, was of the most indepen dent character. (Hear, hear.) One argument in favour it the English bill had been, that the people demanded Infant could that be said respecting Scotland ? or had set the demand or excitement resulted from suggestion, Iltons the bill being ofleretl to them ? That being the fact, was It safe to submit to the clamour that had been so excited ? When Louis tile Sixteenth put himself under the guidance of Necker, whose power rested on concession to the populace, his throne was soon overturned.—( Hear, hear) What had the people of France gained ? They had I struggled forty years to gain the promised land—had they reached it ? Were they nearer to it ? He trusted they were ; but was there any positive proof of it ? The Learned I Lord said he would not allow a rag to remain of the present system— (Hear, hear)—that was the principle on which the Fmch Reformers set out: all knew what was the conse quence.—(Hear.) The Learned Lord and the Right Hon. Member for Knaresborough admitted the harmonious state of Society that existed in Scotland, where the chivalrous feelings of another age blended with the improvements and refinements of the present,and all was harmony & prosperity. Within the last 50 years Scotland had improved more than any other country, and yet they were told that all this im provement took place under a system so vicious, that it was indispensable that it should be cotirely destroyed. (Hear.) If the advocates of the measure would prove that any posi tive advantage would arise to the people, he was willing to concur in any change ; hut he was not willing to put all the advantages Scotland now enjoyed In jeopardy, that the learned lord and his friends might try their experiment (Hear, hear.) It was said reform would prevent war ; but fook to France—the democracy of France desired war, and it was necessary fur the government to gra. tify their passion fur its own preservation ; and it was probably owing to the prudence of the English government that war was prevented. (Hei n If, however, Scotland was to have what he considered evils of the bill, it was entitled to its benefits. In England a great increase of re presentation to populous counties, but no such advantage was given to the Semen counties. It was wholly impossible that a change faltprtial could be final. (Hear, hear.) It was true ohs an ies in Scotland were not always possessed by the psessesers of the land; but no such title could be created without ommection with the land of the country. (fleas.) He repaid that the noble lord opposite. and the noble I ird at the head of the Government had allowed themselves to be drawn into a whirlpool, which would too probably cause the shipwreck of themselves and their country. (Hear, hear.) Lord ALTHORP said the question now lay in a very small compass. After a bill had passed the house for a reform in the representation of England, was Scotland to be allowed to remain as it was ? The right honourable gentleman (Sir G. Murray) admitted that some measure of reform was necessary for Scotland ; his ( Lord Althorys) opinion was, that one entire blemish covered the whole sys tem of the representation of that country, for which reason he hoped the bill would be allowed to be read a second time. (Hess.) After a few words from Mr. Hunt, Mr. C. PELH AM said, the present bill was as objec tionable as the other. After which the house divided, when there appeared— For the second reading 409 For the amendment' That the bill be read a second time that day six months'.... 94 Majority in favour of the second reading 115 The bill veu then ordered to be committed on Monday next. Mr. BRUCE gave notice, that he should in committee move that additional members be given to the town of In. MMUS . The other ordcre of the day were then disposed of, and the hawse adjourned at a Quarter Past Two o'Clock. FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE. GERMAN PAPERS RECEIV FD THIS DAY, VIENNA, SEPT. 10.—The Breese* Gazette of the Bth announces that on the 31st Augnst, a woman, and on the let September, her son, a young man, 20 years of age, died at Trirchan, in the county of Zunims, after a very short illness ; and that to prevent the alarm that might otherwise be caused by the circumstance, the Board of Health ordered the bodies to be examined and opened ,when it was evident that the death of these persons had been caused by inflammation of the bowels, proceeding from their having eaten an immoderate quantity of unripe plums, and other indigestible food, and from their having refused all medical advice. From the Lemberg Gazette of the 2d, it appears that on the Ist, there remained only 22 persons afflicted with cholera in that city. From the com mencement of the disorder on the 22d of May, to the let of September, there had been at Lemberg 4,993 cases, 2,558 recoveries, and 2,613 deaths. According to accounts that had been received, there is now not a single patient with symptoms of cholera at Bruck or the Leitha. FuNDs.---Five per Cent. ktetalliques 77 11-16. Four per Cent. Do. C 7 7-!e. Bank Shares 941.—Am:rims Observer, Sept. H. BERLIN, Sgev.l4.—His Majesty the King has issued a proclamation, respecting the measures which have hitherto been adopted, and those which are henceforth to be observed for preventing the spread of the cholera. Though all the precautions taken have not been able to prevent the intro duction of the disorder, they have been at tended with very beneficial effects. Yet as experience since the appearance of the disease in our provinces has thrown new light on the sub ject. His Majesty has ordered the existing regu lations to be revised and modified, in consequence of which a great change is to be made with respect to the military cordons in the in terior of the kingdom, which have been found to be highly detrimental to the interests of the people, and which besides could not be conti nued in the autumn to the same extent. His Majesty has therefore ordered other measures in each commune, which, with God's blessing, will, he hopes, be found effectual ; but in which, it is absolutely necessary, that the people themselves, in whose obedience to the laws his Majesty places entire confidence, should concur. To this proclamation is annexed a notice from the Board of Health, by which the military cordons are el most every where suppressed. The quarantine stations on the frontiers will be retained. TIM line of quarantine for travellers and merchandise be fixed at fire days. Travellers cannot be hin dered from passing through the towns and villages. Persons residing in houses that are closed cannot be obliged to remain then more than five days.— Navigation to be free in those provinces in which the cholera prevails. Various public works are ordered to employ la bourers who are in want of work.—Frankfort Pa pers, Sept.l7- HAIsAII, SEPT. 11.--The report that the elector will shortly go on a journey is renewed since the return of M. Wiedarbold, who, as a member of the deputation, lately waited on the elector, a t i expressed their wish that his Royal Highness mi;i 4 return to Cassel. It is supposed that the elect, will go to French Switzerland, and appoint Regency during his absence, of which the Electo- Prince will be at the head. A change in the NI,, nistry is also spoken of. —Nuremberg deist, Sept. 15. DEDICATED TO HIS MOST GRACIOU MAJESTY. Just published, in Byo. price Je2 half bound, THE TAILOR'S MASTER-PIECE ; b e i nz the Tailor's complete Guide for Instruction in th : whole Art of Cutting, Measuring, Bcc. according to th, vtuiatkuis of Nature or Fashion; with Twenty•two Plate., giving a thorough demonstration rof the subject. a The Author's system is 'entirely nes, and founikil upon most correct and scientific principles, and more ell. daily upon that stimulus to improvement, daily experience (which, as a Master Tailor, he possesses) ; and it w ill , he doubts not, entirely super sede all problematical Rules P: Cutting—the use of Paper Patterns—of Skeleton Costs, &c, which are no less a proof of the ignorance than a diagae: the Trade. London : Published and sold by the Authcr, WALKER, (Profemsur of and Practical Lecturer on .1.. Art of Cutting), 20, Southampton.street, Bloomst,a.. square, and may also be had of all Booksellers. THE EVENING STAR. LONDON, SATURDAY, SEPT. 24. Owno'CLocr. Tins DAY.— Thermometer, 70. E... rometer, 30.20. Weather, fine. Wind S.W. We have this day to announce the arrival cf another German Mail ; but not one word abou: Warsaw, or the important events which, in even point of view, must have followed the terrible hatt:, of the 7th, and the alleged entry of the Russians on the Sth. There is a number of the Nuremberg Correspondent of the 17th, wholly silent in regard to events which must create a greater interest in Germany even than in France and England ; to the credit of the young men in Germany, the: have, as far as possible, been volunteers in the Polish cause. The subject would, therefore, prs- MSS peculiar interest at Nuremberg, where the Pr s is as free as in any city of Germany ; and it is scarcely more remote from the seat of war Om Berlin. On the silence of the Berlin Papers to the 17th we remarked yesterday, and that the Journals of that enlightened city should have made an sou:- stirring an announcement on the 12th, and then forbear for five days to return to the subject, or that no further advices should have reached Berlin in that lapse of time, is altogether unaccountable. Yesterday we gave place to an article from Tilsit of the 9th, and Tilsit we know is above one hundred miles beyond the Vistula: it is evident, therefore, that the communication is not entirely closed, and yet there appears to be no accounts from Warsaw since the Bth. We are unwilling to rase false hopes in our readers, or to commit ourselves in their judgment; but as we are obliged to receive all our information through Prussia, and that Government allows no thing to appear in its subservient journals, bat that which favours the Russians, and is adverse to the Poles, we infer much from this ill-timed and mysterious silence. Any person who observes the course of the Vis- tula on any respectable map, will perceive that if the Poles had, or have, any considerable force either at Modlin or Plock, no movement could be more natural than their crossing the Vistula, and assailing the Russian positions in the rear—previous to which they might, however, very properly await the commencement of the as sault by the Russians. If this were not done, it would indicate a fatal exhaustion and paralisation of the Polish forces, while it would fully account for the interception of despatches of the Russians to Berlin. We are further justified in this speculation by all the reports of the previous numbers of the Polish army, and by the known fact, that within a week of the assault, they had appeared in great force in the direction of Plock, obviously without any other military object than to cross the Vistula, and place the Russians between two fires. If, there fore, the Russians, as is reported, 105t . 30,000 men in their desperate and reckless assault, and we think it not unlikely, any disposable Polish force ad vancing upon their positions and depots in the rear, might be able to change the results of the campaign. We hazard all this as a mere speculation, founded on the fact of the non-arrival of any intelligence, and on a military coup d'cril of the aches occupied by the contending parties. If we should be it error, and if the unparalleled circumstance should have occurred, that Polish generals at a distance considered themselves compromised by the occu pation of Warsaw, we are persuaded that our rea sonings upon the subject will be candidly excused by the friends of Ltasa k vir and of POLAND. We give place to the Icdoming Letter, which ice find in the columns of the Morning Herald of this day. It may or may not have been written a! Berlin on the 14th, as stated ; bat it obviously coo• tains no facts in addition to those which appeared in the Berlin Gazette of the 12th; and some tad might either be on dits at Berlin, or the ingenious and harmless inventions of a political novelist Is London. The is certain—that down to the lith. the Berlin Papers were wholly silent. Beams, Sere. 14.—As late as the sth Paskewisti attempted a mersdation ; bat mime was the maw ? Preadspesid, as Chief et the Omani MA sod sativied by die liCruk"lial as B ussise the walls et Wassearlia".lll that the dellmesaibik rag : : ' thasala's ladqssediass, nibs: ohms as saneader. Pio which was equally Measwide. The Cesspess, stid , missed spat the aa hooded's of the hisedem of IP as be add praMse aaddag mete tams vs sisswq