Star. — London, England, 1810-02-13 00:00:00

, - I Did not Lord Castlereagh at that tilt ' itiltrail perhaps ti, oor three and twenty thousandlons in the you into the consideration of what amoutrof 10 0 ,1 vice v hen I received the order ; and other trans- nage might be drawn from foreign service, apprma: ports in the course of the equipment arrived from dif- r ble to the proposed service ?- -Most undoubtedly t wt . ferent parts of the world, particularly from Spain and entered into every particular : his Lordship had gii.tes ortugll, which I believe were ordered home with a directions, as I understood, to order home ships from ew to some service that was likely to take place. ' different foreign stations. At what time were you itstructed to provide ca. Did not you understand that upon the expulsion v airy transports, and to what amount ?—Not till the of the French from Portugal, it appeared consistent ‘2oth of May ; in .fact, transports were wanted for I with the demands.of the service in that quarte r , t o infantry, for cavalry, and stores ; the ships that were withdraw a considerable amount of tonnage from tendered were reported accordingly ; such as were fit Portugal, and particularly cavalry tonnage, for three tor cavalry were appropriated to- cavalry, the other thousand horses ?—I do not at this instant exactly for infantry, and such as were St for neit her infantry. recollect the number, but I believe it may be about or cavalry were reported to receive stores. that number. Do you remember any particular difficulty in pro- • Upon the whole, was not about forty-eight thou viding cavalry transports ?—There was more difficulty sand tons of transports withdrawn from foreign ser.: in providing cavalry,. transports than in providing ships vice, as applicable' to the campaign at home ?—I be for infantry or stores. _ lieve full to that extent. _ _ Do vou recollect at what time the cavalry trans- I ports required, and afterwards made use of, were pro- vided ?—About the 17th or 18th of July the cavalry were embarked, all I believe, except the draft horses : , r the battering trim. W hen were the transports ready for the cavalry ? The 17th, 18th, and 19th of July, I think the cavalry were embarked. When were the transports ready for the embarka tion of the cavalry?—The whOle were not ready till about the time that they embarked ; a part of them were ready but not the whole. From. whence were the cavalry transports pro cured ?—Almost the whole of them in the River. Then there was no delay in the preparation for the embarkation of cavalry, arising from the expectatiqn of transports from Portugal?—l think not, arrange ments having .made by the Secretary of State with the Commander in Chief of the Army and the Lords of the-Admiralty ; about the 15th or 16th all the infantry embarked at Portsmouth, at Dover, at R Imsgate; at Chatlia,M, and. at Harwich, andviithin two or three days afterwards the cavalry,yamle em barked, except a thousand. horses that . weremeant, as I understood from the Secretiry ,of State, for the heavy artillery ; when say nl4, - I .beg leave to be.; understood, the great body ; ,there. plight be a few , that did not tome in exactly on the 16th or 16th. When were the heavy ..artilleri horses embarked ? —We were ordered to provide for a thousand horses' of the heavy artillery;. this servicesvas to be provided for the last of all, and :we embarked I believe, in a short time; Between six and seven flunked—l think within a week- or ten days _after the other. If the exact date is material, I believe I could furnishit ; it was between six and seven hundred horses for .the heavy artillery. nodorstood from the Secretary Of- State, that the Expedition might possibly sail without any of those horses, but that it would be very de sirable if we could only send Eve hundred ; in fact we sent, I believe, in about a week after between six. mid have been any diffi -able amount of trans timely notice had been earlier in the spring, and wernment we were con im twenty-one shillings :s,.previous to this expo. and Portugal. •ansports were procured .se of price ?—Most uu- .e probably have had period was in con 'ships they did not offer. fixed. Notice. is given :w or no ships offered at ice fixe,d for ships under of seventeen shillings a , twenty shillings a. ton and twenty-one shillings continually varied on progressively since' nan of the Transport "rbm 'thirteen shillings a year 1795) to the price .hich in fact is the regu- 4 have been impossible the spring if a suffi '—Most undoubtedly you el and if you go to the enough, ships may give 'r views to come into the advantageous than the e do you think would it additional number of 'e to observe upon this ions, and I believe that decided the case. When ice, many of them the id, if they are paid at a thirty or thirty-live or great discontent, which to the service than the increased price benefit; t, but the opinion of the ic very experienced sea- ak a greater number of been taken up about the ing the public to a very r subjecting the Trans :onvenience ?--I do not Auld have accrued to the try materially, and I fre ion when called upon to Were not the instructions of the Secretary of &ate to you, to use every endeavour to procure the addi tional tonnage in addition to the twenty-three thou sand tans on hand, and the tonnage expected from I abrpad, to carry on the service in questioa ?—They were, and I consulted with my colleagues at the Board on the most effectual means of procuring suf ficient tonnage, and they were of opinion that raising the price beyond twenty-five shillings would be pro ductive of-more injury than benefit to the service; . we engaged ships for six months certain, and in so m e cases for one year, rather than produce discontent among the Owners of the ships that were then in the service. Were not the exertions of the Board and of Go vernment so unremitting, with a view to the procur ing a sufficient quantity of tonnage in the least possi ble time, that the possibility of requiring the services of neutral ships in the river, was a subject that re ceived the fullest 'consideration, and was only laid aside upon • a conviction of the serious objections to such . a resnirce being had recourse to?—Finding that we could not procure immediately sufficient tonnage, .1 suggested to the Sectetary of State the propriety of taking-intri the service neutral ships, a great many at that time being in the river. The Secretary of State sent for me in the Chancellor of the Exchequer's house, and this business was taken into full consider. ation in my presence; and it was finally determined, that it would not be proper to take them, as we could not have them voluntarily, and they must be forced into the service. Do nor you recollect that a part of the cavalry ton nage which arrived from Portugal, and whiclt was employed upon tl,e service in question, did not arrive at Portsmouth till the infantry was actually embark :ed ?—The cavalry, to the extent of near 50(X), were embarked a few days after the infantry were embark ed, and sailed with them, I think about the 28th or 29th . of July; I think the whole sailed about that time. Did not the whole amount of horses embarked upon the Expedition, consist nearly of 6000 ?—Full that, I should think ; some were embarked in men of war ; I do not know the number. With every exertion that could be made, was not it-necessary to send about 300 horses of the battering . train, within the next two o r t h ree d a y s a f ter t h e ex pedition had sailed from the Downs ?—The battering train did not sail all together, there were 3or 4t that sailed after the others. In answer to a former question, you stated that seven huPelrod horses of the battering train had em barked a week or ten days after the rest of the Ar mament ; I presume you mean after the first em barkation 4 theinfantrj at Portsmouth, which was about the I lch of the nfonth ?—The general embark ation-as I mentioned before, I believe was about the 15th or 16th ; they all took place together, I should think ten or twelve days before the battering train, to the amount of six or seven hundred, were embarked; the battering train sailed in two divisions. Have yOu known on any former occasion a greater exertion made on the part of the country and the of to produce the necessary tonnage for the ser vice than on the late occasion?-4 certainly never did. Do not you recollect, that exclusive of the demands that were made upon the Transport Board with a view to *this particular service, that between the be -ginning of March and the beginning of May, a corps of infantry of about twenty thousand men, and &eve. .ral regiments of cavalry, were embarked for the ser vice in . Portugal ?—I cannot now recollect the num ber, but 1 know great exariions had been made, and numbers of men,- 'I dO not know the numbers exactly at this instant, had embarked for Spain and Portugal, in consequence of which the price, as I have already mentioned, had been raised to 935. from the regular price of transports, to provide conveyance for them. Was not it the deliberate opinion of, the Transport Board, that no increase of price beyond that which was offered, could be prudentially offered, with the view to the general interests of the public' service ? It was, and if the Transport Board had recom menced a higher price, I think it likely-that. Govern. ment would have authorized them to give it. Considering the general arrangements necessary for this Expedition, on the part of the Transport Board, 'are you of opinion that.the amount of force employed could have LlZ:en sent on service earlier than it actu ally was ?—I am convinced it could not. Do you consider that it was possibleto obtain 40 or 50,000 tons of shipping at the price of 255. per ton in -the month of March, in addition to the 23,000 which you have stated you had ?—I chi not think we could have had -10 or 50,000 ton at that place in the month of March. Are you of opinion. that- in the month of March, any and what addition to that price would have pro cured them ?—I am of opinion that as you raise the price yon may-get ships, to what . extent I cannot say, but the ground on which we objected to raising the' price was, that it would produce great discontent among the owners of the ships already in the sehrice . a. and if we got 5 or 6 or 10,000 ton, it might not be good policy to take them under those circumstances. Had you in Fact any communication with his Ma.' jetty's- Ministers as to the increasing the number of tonnage for transports earlier than the '2oth May ? Yes; in. consequence of whieh we iraised the price to 255. as I have already mentioned, from a guinea : previous-withe 20t1vof we had many ships in the service at `..4 ss. taken .itp a: - c,aisequence of o r d ers from the ..Sec retary of 1- r the Portugal and Spanish service.. . • • Had . not Lord• Castlereagh-;t - ommunication with you respecting the medical a; - ::ingements for the ports. had not Lord Castle t you with respect to the reference to the ensuing trendy about that time, during the time of the iarticularly that we were , for 10,000 'nen ; I bo as nearly as I can recol ,s; the stores depended le different depariments, , and the other depart- there on hand at home . 23,000 tons of trans: id, 20,000 and •upicaids, 23,000. shortlithin a time;:t tkai or een six amlse a ve t r c exact date is material, I belieim I was between 'six raid 'seven hum heavy artillery. I Mulerstood fr State, that the Expedition might any of those horses, but that it sirable if we could only send fig we sent, I believe, in about a we and seven hundred. Do you imagine there would culty in procuring a considerabl ports earlier in the spring, if tin given i'— We found difficulty earli under the direction of the Gover strained to raise the price from per tam to twenty-rive shillings a y dtion, for the service of Spain an Do you imagine that the trans in 'consequence of that increase c doubtedly. Would not increase of price the same effect at an earlier pen sequence of the scarcity of 'ship The prices for transports are rim when they are wanted, and few the regulated price. The price 1 the direction of the Treasury of ton for s;.ogle-bottomed ships, tsv fir ships sheathed with wood, and for ships sheathed with copper. Have not those prices .been cc The regular prices have gone or the time I first became Chairman Board, and have increased from ton (the regular price in the yea: that I Nave just mentioned, Nellie' lar price now. Do you imagine that it would to have procured transports in th ciant price had been offered ?—M• may have all the ships in.Englim price : if the price is large enorr up their engagements and other king's service, if that is more ad regular trade. 'What difference in the price r have procured any very great a: transports ?—I must beg leave a subject I had many conversation• my opinion in sonic measure deci we have transports in the service first coppered ships in England, guinea and others are paid thin forty shillings, it produces grew' perhaps does more injury to t ships you would get at an inert this was not only my op nion, bt Board, where there are some v men. In point of fact, you think a transaorts could not have been . Tait of May, without subjecting ea-eat addition to the price, or s . port Service to. a great inconv think that any advantage could service by raising - the price very cpiently gave that as my opinion increase the number of transport A bout the 20th of May, haa reagh a communication with yoi transport arrangements, with ref campaign ?—Certainly, irequen and almost every day after dun equipment, and I was told parti to provide infantry transports foi lieve cavalry to the extent, as n icct, for six thousand horses ; upon the demands from the d t!e ordnance, the victualling, a e • ments of Government. :shout that time was not Ala( applicable to service, about 2. have already Said, ad .lbe . ieve it may be about 23 iielirrio;Eltis service, so far as the Transport *rant is connected with thesila—Weitad fiequcnt connn 7 nicaticas; even several times in a day, twice, thrice . or O4tper in a day, either with Lord Castlereagh or the Under Secretary, concerning, the providing shipping for the different departments of. Government. ' Was not the proportion of the hospital Shill thgt should attend the Expedition, considered, and was nor it in the contemplation of .Government, the _ propinquity of the service, the . ta ck might be removed .sa transports that carried troops to the Hospitals in England, and did you not understand* that that was a principal service that 'was determined upon ?—I understood that the sick were occasionally to be sent to Englan&—the hospital ships and convalescent ships were to the same extent that had been used in other Expeditions, to Copenhagen, to the Texel, and even to distant parts of the wetrld ; the transrairts, as they returned from the Scheldt, were ordered to be dean-• sed, fumigated, and provided with a double allow ance of medical comforts, in order to bring back the sick, after we heard that they had so much increased. Was it not your opinion that the ordinary trans ports that conveyed the troops, with an addition to the medical comforts that were in store with the Ex pedition, were qualified to convey the s;ek beak to the Hospitals ?—I confess, if I could have given them better accommodation I sl:o ild have thought it my duty to do so, but the sick had increased ;so much that.there was no possibility . of . providing. Hospital ships for their conveyance to England we provided . , some of the transports with hair bed, , , which; iv ith the medical comforts, we thought for so short a vol•. age might answer the purpose, but the country could not have furnished tonnage for hospital ships to the extent that was requited, within the time that was necessary. Does nor an hospital ship require from eight to ten ton a man, and could an arrangement at all-adequate to the number of sick have been provided under the circumstances in wlUch the country . was placed ? The two hospital ships that were apprOpriated to that service, the Asia and Aurora( were about 480 tons each, and could not receive,more in the cradles that were provided io hospital ships, than sixty men in each ship or thereabout. Regard being hid toahe amount of the force sent. upon this Expedition, and the propoition of tonnage which was withdrawn from other set vices, and which could ma with propriety have been paid .off, and alsi) regard being had to the proportion of the force that was carried by the Navy, do you con s ider that the 'late Expedition, as tar as your department was eon oerned, was one of great expence, or the reverse ?—.I think the reverse. • • Do you mean to say that there were but two lies. pital ships, as such, attached ID this Expedition ? Yes. At what time did the conversation take place be. twee you and Lord Castlereagh re•pecting the in- j crease of the sick, which made it 'impossible to pro -' 1 vide hospital ships sufficient for their accommodation ? I cannot mention the exact day, I think it was early in the month of September that I went to the Secre tary of State's in consequence of receiving a letter from our principal Agent, who mentioned that there were 14.00 sick ; I saw the under Secretary of State, and he told me he was sorry to say therf• were many more ; at that time there was no possibility of pro em ing hospital ships to the extent that was required to bring over the sick. • Did you go to the Secretary of State's Office upon this subect, in consequence ,of any requisition upon the part of the Secretary of State or the Under Secre tary, or any officer of his Nfajestv's Government ? I went there on receiviT . ,g.the intelligence that I have stated, without any requisition. Were not you in the hab;t of having repeated and constant communications both with Lord Castlereagh and Mr. Robinson, as to every point of the transport service throughout the whole of the business, whether it respected the sick, or any other department of the service ?- 7 Certainly, without the inteimission of a single day. Did not these communications very freitiemly take place in consequence of a message either from Lord Castlereagh or Mr. Robinson, that they mished to speak to you ?—Certainly, very frequently, and once his Lordship came over to my office ; as I had fre quently been sent for, he took the trouble to come over himself to make some enquiry. How long do yon conceive it would take to equip an hospital ship in the Way in which these ships arc generally equipped, and in the way the Asia was equipped, after a requisition of that kind had been Made ?—I think not less than a month. Had not you communication both with Lord Cas tlereagh and Mr. Robinson, before the sailing of the Expedition, as to this question of hospital ships and convalescent ships, and as not it thodpbt that, con sidering the short distance to which the troops were to go, the number of hospital ships then provided, to gether with the convalescent ships and the means of, transport arising from the vessels which carried out either troops or stores, were sufficient to . hring home almost any number of sick that were likely to require, conveyance ?—At that time we had no idea. of the skit being likely to amount to such an extent, but cer tainly we could not have provided hospital ships or convalescent ships to the extent that was required— the Under Secretary of State, at the time alluded to, communicated to me a communication which he had from Portsmouth, requiring an hospital ship to each division : I told him it was impracticable_ to, provide them within the time required. State whether you. had any discussion with his Ma jesty's Ministers upon the subject of the increased sickness of the A rm y i n Walcheren, previous to the time of your going to the Secretary of State's office, on the receipt of the letter you have mentioned from your Agent ?—Nn. • What is the date of that Letter ?—I canner it senr state it. . ... You have stated in , the..former- part ;of ,gone den.ceohat- any ntunber of transpcittriniglit have been iroxided by , giving money emiligh ; what particular obstaele occurred against the providing more hospital transports, when the deer. Loth of the seetree and the cause of humanity required it ?—I beg.leaie to state, that T do not recollect having said that , aay number of transports might be provided ; if I saideso, I beg leave to retract it. • Have you not reason to believe that tlVfirst intel ligence received by the. Secretary of State- of there being any large proportion of sick in the army in the Scheldt, was contairtewdhiiicafiLmo,arsdreCcietiavieldVrta:S:Ebiettenitair.::::f I gtate . on the -Ist of Sept ember of h f e the 29 r h of Secretary AugA ug August , t f The first intimation I had was from our Agent s f .the 1,44)0 sick I have already mentio ne d saw that letter of Lord Chatham's which is alluded r t ., ' • Did not the Riving is. cause ccmoderable. dissati faction among the owners of th e transports who hart been before in the service i--;-Thernever made any representation that tho l i re i tt. c rtha o n l e l s ec gpoi t vrt t i i is f g o N t: thi t t a h t pi c lE l: i t tc c de a f. s od i t r t ilentin; •• ind P uc o e y t o h u e believe that been in the service, to demand an increase of pri ce e e They demanded an increase of price previous to n e . and obtained it ; the 13s. a ton was th e regula r '' p ee in the year 1795, and from that time it has increa•e4 to the prices I have stated. • • - • ' When you gave 255. a ton to a ship. did not ;moths : ship equally good, to which you had only paid ce . I guinea before, demand 25s- in consequence of yfm, aving given 255. to the ship year last engaged :-.- No, they never did that I. recollect.; it was no lie n . seal thing in •expeditiens to raise the pride for s hi p ,- 1 taken up at the period of dent pats tieuler exp e di t i os. I when they, could lint be had without. fei a ngthe prics . ; it had beeta.delke in :almost .e.ieraoittshitice: - s - .... You have - said, that in order, to •induct many eftl'e transports to lecept of t he . arrengemetue yo u c;;eas e a teem for a twelventnnth, how ere ti ey at, this time . r. s. posed of,since the s•.•elsoststontit was:id/eh sifter tte e ll ., they could to used ?---Tae number engaged ii,,. e te;:eltemonth,.4i 4 e ecnierceed more than two or thee:. .hundretholc iii the best ofeny recollection; these-shim- • can be kept in the service if only employed at nave victuallers,: or to supply our Colonies "abroad with stores, arid . the others might he 'discharged withtor 'the least injury to the service. Did• you state, that if a ship of 180 tons was com pletely readyfor sailing in other respects, she would oil . take a month to equip her f6r an Hospital Ship? certainly did not mean that, but we had not shies if that descriptiml in the service at the time alluded to that could be appropriated to that service, and it hired, they must in the first instance be ready and maimed in every respect on the part, of the owners,' before our seorkmen could work upon tlitm to;fit theti as Hospital Ships. - "What time Would it take to fir a ship .in othei• no spee, rekly as an Hospital Ship ?-e-I do not believe it ever has been done in less than .a fortnight, but I will nut say it may not be done in a week with pet exertion.—[The Witness was directed to withdreie. - ; MAJOR-GENERAL CALVERT, Adjutant General if ha Army, tear cad in, and examined by the qominitiie, When were any communications made to you re specting intended.operatio Is in the Scheldt, and wh at passed in consequence ?—There was very early in ti,e year an urgent requisition nn-the part of Government, that troops should be required for service, but I was .. .. ._ not apprized for wh a t serv i c e. . State any communication made to y.ou eespectine the prep mug an indefinite force, which force was r afTerwards senhto any other destination?-The fi ,-T -der. that ' was given oat to the troop.; after their return from Spain was by his Royal Highness the late Commander in Chief, specifying, that by the- 1 eth of. April he should expect the troops •te beprcparel for service ; en the 22d of March a letter was writtee to the General Officees commanding in the Ewers, 'Kent and Sussex districts, des!ring that they - :ecru: . 4 . immediately report, for the Commander in Chief', in formation, the actual state - of the troops with a sera to service ; the next requisition did not apply to the service ; the next application made by the Commas der in Chief's order was on the sth of May, which was directed to the General Officers commanding lu • the Eastern and Kent districts, for the Same inform:nine ~ ire regard to the troops, and urging: their iMmediate - equipment ; the next letterto tic same object-was on the 23d of May, which was directed to the General • Officers commanding in the Eastern. district, the bent district, and the Sussex district. When were you first made acquainted with the pro. • jected Expedition to the Scheldt ?- I rather think it was about the middle. of May. By whom was it communicated to you, and what was the substance of any communication to yore, as 2 what instructions did you receive I—l believe the communication was made to me by the Comm:tilde:- in-Chief, but every instruction respecting the prepa ration of the troops for ithice was.previousi y given ; I am not awate.thatany instruction immediately Is.:!• lowed, for everyinetruction had been given previous to my knowledge where the troops were to be ern. •plcvyed. , . Was the Commander in Chef's communication to you in writing ?—lt was not. I State what communication you had with the Corr.- ' mander-in-Chief ?—That a considerable corps was' to 'be prepared for immediate service in the Scheidt: that it was to comprise almost the whole of our Ifs posable force, certainly the whole of our disposable infantry, .and a considerable proportion of our dispos able cavalry ; that' it Was to he prepared in two dire -sions, the one was•at that time supp Ised to precede the other, and the letter, which was the reserve, was to be forroed of those regiments that we: e leestfit for - I Service. . . , What was the amount - of the force that was requi red ?---I think the first ,division .was to moist of 2.5,000 men, and the second division of 10,0e0. arr is a return of the force that was at that time rut en der orders for service, resulting from the rearms made . by the ComManding Officers of. District.: tae e•tal is 8569 cavalry, and 80,322 infantry. • • • •Was that . farce ready for service in the roidelle 'of May ?—No, it was not. What proportion of it was ?---It is.very difficult to answer that question, because the .rettn ;Is late,in April specified that a very small ration ot the forte was fit for service, hexing returned cis lately from Ca runlet.. and likewise from the Militia volunteering der .i'nl ;hr' 'Moeda tot April ; 1:lat which I lure stated wait rroutethe r esult of- an inget4..m.tsk LI the tif6" cers commateding districts ins thole:M-4 M ay jher had been an inquiry mad e on the sth of * MTN i:oi o t . k . ... was not so favourable. • . . What was the disposable force fit for service 911 the sth of May ?--I doubt wheeser the Most •satisfac . - tory way of answering that will not be by p ! p u tting the reports of the General Officers ; the r e sult 19 dd. ferent as to almost every corps. ' Have.you any means of stating to the Committee' . _ . what, at pßrticular periods, was the amount orl orce - that was actually disposable and tit for foreign str- Tv. . ii it t ion .in tee . b;