Star. — London, England, 1821-02-02 00:00:00

A kirk. Like the preceding, it prayed for the restora tion of her Majesty% name to the Liturgy. Here. the Accountant-General from the Court of Chancery appeared at the Bar of the House, with some papers ordered from that Court, which were ordered to be printed. Lord MILTON presented a Petition from the Town of Guisboroogh, in the North Riding of the County of York, praying the restoration oilier Ma jesty's name to the Liturgy, and an inquiry into the plan Commission.—Ordered to be printed. Mr. HOBHOUSE presented a similar Petition from the Parish of St. George, Hanover-square. He had offered this Petition to the House on a former evening, but then withdrew it in consequence of its want of form. 114,BEAUMONT rose to present a Petition from the county of Northumberland, most respectably sigoect,. and complaining of the late proceedings against the Queen, which were stated by a vote of the:liouse " to be derogatory from the dignity of the Crown, and injurious to the best interests of the counthf:"• He most fully coincided with the Peti tioners in the opinion that an early and rigid inquiry should be made into the Milan Commission, that a suitable establishment should be provided for her Majesty,. and her name restored to the Liturgy. Sir M. W. RIDLEY observed, that the Petition emanated from the noblest feelings. He had been prevented from giving his attendance at the Meeting at which it was voted, but he had seen the Petition, and knew it had the signatures of men of great weight, in the country, both in point of property and charac ter. That punishment should precede trial, was a violation of the best principle of the Constitution. That a virtual acquittal should operate as a convic tion was contrary to law and reason. No absurdity, however, on the part of his Majesty's Ministers—no Mustice; however glaring, could influence the Hon. ember for Yorkshire to agree to their removal. The Honourable HENRY GREY BENNETT said, he was surprised the Sheriff for the county of Northumberland should refuse to assemble the county. He was surprised that persons living in obscure lanes and alleys, should presume to set their opinions in op position to the rank, property, and talent of the coun try. But he supposed some hints were communicated from other places. He had seen a letter from a No ble Duke (the Lord Lieutenant of that county), which he supposed had supplied them, and which was averse to the object for which this Petition prayed— (flear). In this Petition there was no mock loyalts ; none of that high-sounding zeal which might reward GOD knows who or what—none of that affected and exaggerated attachment to the Sovereign, which meant nothing but an attachment to that which Mi nisters knew so well how to retain. One of the pas sages of the letter was as follows;—" Relying on the hereditary firmness of the House of Brunswick, and on its wish to maintain the laws, and to restrain those factious persons who would introduce an un natural discord in the country," &c. Who, he asked, were the factious persons here alluded to ? The Pe titioners were as little disposed to introduce discord into the country as any other persons in it—(Hear,, hear). He hoped that this question would be soon set right, and that it would be seen that this letter was one of the grossest libels against the individuals who composed this Meeting, that ever were circu lated against the People. He had only to add, that he concurred in every word of this Petition. Oniered to be printed. Mr. PRICE presented a Petition from Leominster, praying the restoration of her Majesty's name to the Liturgy. He observed, that the vote to which the' House had come on this subject was, in his view, a very extraordinary one. It was in opposition to the express and manifest feelings of the country, and in deed to the opinions which some Members who agreed in that vote entertained in private—(hear). Though from the recollection of that vote he could Eudly think , himself justifiable in expecting that any alteration would be made on this point, yet he, could not but express his hope, that when the subject came again under their consideration, the House would recollect how very little it mattered who were the Ministers of the country—(Hear, hear)—that au acquittal was not to bekonsidered as equivalent to a verdict of guilty—( Hear, hear)—and that no set of Ministers was to be preferred to the preser vation of the peace and tranquillity of the country. ~ The Petition was ordered to be printed. Sir R. WILSON moved an Address to the Throne for a copy of the Dispatch from his Majesty's Com missioner at Troppau, dated 19th January, 1821. Lord CASTLEREAGH said he had no objection to the production of this paper.—Address ordered. THE NEW BANK NOTES. Mr.GRENFELL called the attention of the House to a statement which was made in February last by the Right Ilonou rabic Gentleman opposite (the Chan- Cellor of the Exchequer) upon the subject of a new plan for the engraving of Bank Notes, which he said had been agreed on. No person who had reflected on' the melancholy spectacles which had been occasionally exhibited in the metropolis, for the last six months, could help feeling the conviction that any plan whic h had for its object the diminution of tl - e crime of forgery could not be enforced too soon.- The number of executions which had taken place was in truth enormous—( Hear, hear).—He therefore rose for the purpose of asking the Right Honourable Gentleman when they might expect the issue of the new Notes, the plan of which, it had been said, was reed to so long as twelve months ago. CIIANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUE.B as sured the Honourable Member that he was as anxious as any other person could possibly be that the object which was contemplated by devising a new. plan of Bank Notes should be accomplished as soak as poisible. But the Honourable Member must be. aware that the difficulties to be got over were num. *is; And that several regulations were necessary to, be adept d befOre the new Notes could be issued.— Udall it Ou . st'lo fah - that the premature issuing of steer 'Notes , .., the ev il s 4:4 4 .it • . or. oe:felt all the incon v e nience which the * of Note produced, and re vetted' the 'delay which had occurred, but he was not disposed to jawAe to the Bank or to the Com missioners any neglect,. or .any interference which coed . impede,the progress of the Operations. On the contrary, he knew that every effort had been made by them to expedite the process as much as possible, taking care also that it should be attended with im ;uch effect as could be derived from 4. He was sorry to'answer the question of the Honourable Gen tleman by stating that it was not iii his power to say at what time the Bank would be enabled to corn mence issuing the new Notes. Mr. GRENFELL remarked, that be had under stood a plan was adopted in February last, and. be was now sorry to find that the discoveries of the Com missioners were still in an unsettled state, and that the inquiry in which they were engaged stood over for an indefinite period. Mr. D. GILBERT declared that every facility and encouragement had been afforded to the most able artists; but it ought not to be forgotten, that what one artist could execute another might at least. imitate. It was nevertheless hoped that, with the aid of powerful machinery and a succession of varied improvements from time to time, a great degree of success might be found attainable. He had never been so sanguine as to calculate on complete success; but one plan, which promised to be very efficacious, was now under consideration, although it had not, perhaps, reached the last stage of improvement. He concurred with his Right Honourable Friend in think ing that the evil of some farther delay must be less than that of taking any step prematurely, and stop ping short of as near an approach to perfection as circumstances would allow. Mr. H. G. BENNETT admitted the impossibility of procuring any artist to do what other artists- might not imitate afterwards. It would be vain for the House to expect that a Note would ever be con structed which might not, by some ingenuity,: be so imitated as that the forgery should get into cir culation. He wished to remind the House of this, because, in the meantime, the Bank had in their own , hands the power of life and death. Mr. D. GILBERT said the Commissioners enter. tained hopes of being able to produce a Note which it would be at least as difficult to forge successfully as to counterfeit the coin. . Mr. CURWEN said, he had lately seen the model of a Note intended for the use of a Country Bank, which he did not believe could be forged by any de gree of art, and he was of opinion that the Bank deserved much blame for not having encouraged the framer of it. BREACH OF PRIVILEGE! Sir J. NEWPORT rose and said, that it was now his intention to bring under the consideration of the' House a breach of one of its most important and undoubted privileges. In giving, on a former day, a notice on this subject, he had departed from the common and ordinary custom of the House, where its privileges were concerned, and he did so because, in this instance, the attack on those privileges pro ceeded from a aody cf . men respectable in their sta tions—( Hear, hear)—and because it was published to the country, marked by the approbation of the Ministers of the Crown—(Herr, hear).-41e did so, because the libel went to impede the exertion of free dom of speech, and reflected on Members of this House, who had the right of debating every measure of public interest, without being exposed to any com ments, save such as might be made within the walls of this House—(Hear, hear).—He did so, because, the paper to which he alluded was laid at the foot of the Throne, and obtained the approbation of the Throne; to a censure cast upon Members of this House on account of the performance of their duties —(Hear, hear).—The paper was a direct violation of a declaration which was agreed to on the 23d of May, 1810, and recorded upon the journals of this House by men of the first eminence in the annals of this country—(Hear, heat ).—That declaration stated, - We hold it an ancient, genuine, and undisputed right of Parliament to debate fully and freely all matters of public interest, which right being once foreclosed, the essence of -liberty and of Parliament is dissolved and gone for ever" —{ hear, hcar).—The paper to which lie would call the attention of the House had, besides this character of aggravation, that it was promulgated to the country by the Mi nisters of the Crewe—(Hear, hear)—and was ar ranged under a general head, which was dictated by the Noble Secretary of State for the Home Depart. went—(Hear, hear).—The head was this, "The fol lowing Addresses having been transmitted to Vis count Sidmouth, one of his Majesty's Principal Se-, cretaries of State, by the several persons whose names are respectively subjoined to each Address, were presented by his Lordship to his Majesty, who was pleased to receive the same very graciously :" that the Addreis in question was here stated to have been received by his Majesty " very graciously."— Ile was confident, that when the House heard him read the Address, they would agree with him in thinking, that it was one which was most improper to be prey nted to the Throne—(Hear, hear)—or to have been .received in a gracious manner. But he knew that no blame attached to the Throne—that his Majesty was too early brought up in this countr, and too deeply impressed with the principles of t he Constitution, to feel any disposition to infringe the rights, or to impair the attributes which belonged to this House—(licar, hear).—He could not help ob serving, that this Address came from a body of Ec clesiastics, who, he thought, might much more pco perly have employed themselves in their spiritual du ties, than in medding with political matters ! (Hear, hear). —They would have been much more benefi cially engaged in instructing their flocks than in get ting up an Address, in which they stated, that the " violent and unconstitutional speeches of the Oppo sition in both Houses of Parliament," encouraged and excited disaffection in the land—(Hear, hear). —The Address itself would not, however, have induced him to bring it before the House, if it had not been pro mulgated through -the country with the sanction of his Majesty's Ministers. This was an attempt to in vade the freedom of debate in this House, and thus .to take away one of the most important privileges of the people. If any one privilege was deemed snore sacred and valuable than another in this House, it, was the right of expressing their sentiments freely," 'and without any impediment or external restraint:- 11e Noble Lord opposite stated, on a former night, that a power of selection was exercised as to the in sertion.of Addresses in the Gazette; it was avowed that none were published except those which were graciously received, and that none were permitted to go into the Gazette which reflected in any'degree upon the measures of his Majesty's Ministers. But all other Addresses were published with the sanction of the Royal Authorities. He thought it impossible . that the House could do otherwisethan pronounce this •. w. Address to be a gross breach of its privileges. The Hon. Baronet then proceeded to read the Address, which was as follows : • _______ _ • 0 To Toe zuso's Imre xxeziereT stasterr. 0 The dutiful and loyal Address of the - Presbytery of Langhplm, County of Dumfries. ° Mon Gammas Soveaasou--We, your Majesty's loyal sub- I lees, the Ministers of the Presbytery of Langtudin, feel it to-be our duty, in the present crisis, to testify, in this way our at tachment to your Ma . 's person and Government. "We have witnessd with much concern, and we strongly de " precate, the spirit of disaffection lately become so prevalent, " from what we would term the violent and unconstitutional speeches of the Opposition in both Houses of Parliament— " (Haar) —and the infamous scurrility and misrepresentation of 0 a licentious Press. " As teachers of Religion, we deplore the Infidel sentiments " that are sedulously disseminated, and that have contributed a more than any other cause to excite the feelings which have of "late been but too openly manifested: for it must be evident " that when men renounce their allegiance to Coe, they will " also betray their King and Country : and would not those to " whom tee allude nzioice to wen Inn the Ater, the Throne, and the Cautitution, when they scoff at Religion, insult their King, " and bring such railing accusations against the Wren who, under an all-wise and over-ruling Psovinasee, and supported by your Majesty, have saved their country, and in whom, we will yen " ture to say, the good sense of the nation still confides?—(Hear, and laughter.) " With every good citizen and loyal subject, we reprobate the Address and Petition of the Common Council of the City " of London--I(Laughter)—than which a greater insult could not be offered to Majesty, and which it behoves all who wish well " to their King and Country publicly to condemn ; nor can we " refrain from reprehending severely the insolence of certain " Members of the Opposition upon the late prorogation of Par " lament—(Hear, and laughter)--fnr if such conduct in the Re " presentative* of the People pass unnoticed, what may be ex " petted from the People themselves r " We rejoice, however, to think that, whatever be the views of a few factious demagogues, and to whatever lengths a few ig norant and deluded .men might allow themselves to be carried, the great bulk of the People in this, and in almost every guar ter, conscious of the blessings they enjoy under an enviable Con stitution, and under your Majesty's paternal sway, will heartily unite in protecting your Mojesty's person and Government, and in transmitting our rights and privileges unimpaired to future generations. " We fervently pray that Arznown• Gon may confer on your Majesty every spiritual and temporal blessing, and that your reign over a free, a loyal, and a united People, may be long, happy, and prosperous.. " Signed, in name, presence, and by appointment of the Pres bytery of Langholm, at Langholm, this 19th day of December, 1820, by " WILLIAM BERRY SHAW, Moderator." (This title excited much laughter) The Itight Honourable Baronet then handed the Gaunt to the clerk, who read the three passages marked with inverted commas, which having been done, the Right Honourable Baro net moved, " That the paper entitled the dutiful and loyal Address of the Presbytery of Langholm, in the county of Dumfries,' published in the london Gazette, on the cla7 of January, is a dire't and manifest breach of the essential privi leges of this House of Parliament." Lord CASTLEREAGH observed, that in point of fact the Honourable Baronet ought to have con fined his motion to those parts which constituted the breach, and not hate involved the whole paper, in which, in point of fact, there were many passages which did not come under that description. He, however, allowed that there were passages in it which it would be difficult to defend, if pressed upon the notice of the House, and he was the last person in the world to sanction any encroachment on the pri vileges of that House. It was only generally, and under prudential considerations, that he submitted it to the Right Hon. Baronet, whether this was a case for pushing the matter to its extent ? Would it be advantageous, amid the multitude of libels on the House ana on its Members, with which the Press teemed, to take up one insulated example, or by doing so provoke a general proceeding against all who offended, which, if done, would entirely occupy Par liament for many months, and put a stop to all other business? The Right lion. Baronet had, he was sure, taken a more fair and liberal view of it, and he went along with him in his statement ; but he put it to him that the matter could not be cart ied further than the bringing it specifically before the House (which he would not resist), without causing a wider movement than could be wished on either side. It appeared to him thaV the Hon. Baronet could not have heard the full explanation given by his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Bathurst) on a former night, otherwise he might not have thought even the present proceeding necessary. His Right lion. Friend had stated that the Addresses for publication in the Gazette were selected from the whole number presented, by the Noble Secretary of State, his relative; but he had further declared, that in the present instance the publication had taken place in consequence of an oversight and inadver tency, and that it occasioned regret when it was dis covered—(llear, hear). The practice was the practice of all Administrations, and was founded on principles of sound reason and justice; and he argued, that if this was unfit for the Gazette, so, a fortiori, were many of the Addresses, &c. on the other side of the question, to be published where they appeared. He ' was convinced, that, under the explanation of his ' Right Hon. Friend, the Right Hon. Baronet would admit, that so far from the offence being aggravated by the consent of Government, it became extenuated by their Protest. The indignation of the Honse, therefore, would be misdirected in this case, and he hoped the Right Honourable Baronet would be satisfied that it was not that which rendered it necessary to vindicate the privileges of the House.— He submitted to Honourable Gentlemen the expe diency of not taking up any narrower line with regard to the freedom of discussion in the Public, as to what was done or said in Parliament.-- Reprisals were the last species of warfare he should wish to engage in; but it was not to be expected that, however patient one side (the Ministerial) was in its nature, they would consent to lie quietly on their backs—(A laugh)—and suffer all the libellous attacks upon-them, while the other side covered them selves with the broad shield of privilege. He really did not think that any public good could accrue from this state of things : and as it could not be al lowed, he trusted that the present matter would not be pushed to a law and precedent for similar occa sions. To publish any part of their proceedings wal l a breach of privilege; yet k would be strange in any one now to stop that communication which led to, the discussion throughout the country of what was ' done by the House and by parties within it. With all due deference, then, it was a little too much in the Opposition to suppose that there was one party not liable to be assailed, that there was one party against which nothing must be said, nor any whis per that it could act unconstitutionally, while an other was to be aspersed and vilified at pleasure.— The Right Honourable Baronet, in reading the Ad dress, he noticed, had not appeared to him to lead it very fairly. He had proceeded as if it was en tirely applied to the House, whereas, in fact, it was divided Into three subjects, the speeches of the Op- ~~_. '•' o l6 position, the blasphemous put and (whether wisely or not) so; issued from the Common C' for these observations he call to the Par of the nouse—if ample for bringing forward would pledge himself by to-rni or four charges from Addresses which the most unjustifiable visited upon him and his coil warrantable motives imputed liamentary conduct, and the upon the House, of corropt,o , People, and of other crimes. posite required that they shoe begged to offer his counter- , there was to be one protected there ought to be another; it; disavowed its knowledge any tion, he hoped that it would to prosecute it any further. Mr. SCARLETT would House with any observations had not been for what had _ Lord. He had very ingenious' , offender in this case, the unh signed the Address. That ini the Noble Lord had describe. able person ; and if it had been selection of the Address for - the subject would, perhaps, , being brought before the IIou: gave a sting to this Address way into the Gazette, as a pu' mediate sanction of Admini , been most graciously received One of the most important of the House of Commons w; his Majesty's name, or the kit should have no effect in guidi for any man to state to his Y debates of that noose, and terise them, was highly unc , If there could be a greater this, it was, that a Minister stated the Address so charak have been most graciously Ivo The Noble Lord (Sidmouth) to be made for the eccurreny be stated that he was sorry this sort of apology were t; passing over a breach of pri% knew not why they should not breach of privilege, provide' dered—(Heue, hear).—He a; of some of the Noble Lord's I with him when he said that over their privileges with so vent the people front animad. ings of the House; because, of that House and those whor should be a free communicati Press was the best medium fo munication. In this instance was not committed by any tuents, but by a Minister of fore it was the more importai passed over in silence... Thy instances had occurred of late visited, perhaps with too rill versions on their proceedings lar character ; and he cone( equitably to refrain from which was vested in them ah all occasions to enforce it agail If it were an attack on an i would be well for him to ezerci before he determined to submit House ; but it was no such attack on those who were desi; trition," Did his Majesty kr that House? Did Ministers there were a body of men “ violent and unconstitutioi were known—if the fact co; and satisfactorily proved, it parchment rather than breaL hear). He did not think the passed over. The apology but the Address would still the Gazette. If the Noble Lord means by which the apology Journals of the House, he sat could not suffer the business Lord had suggested. They 'tion—an attack had been mat speeches of Members of that tisfaction they received was - ters were sorry for it. But 1. thing to-morrow if some efficient sorted to, and again make regret. Were they to aba titer, because a Minister offered . kuowledged that the proceeding hoped it would not be thought . press the business invidiously If the motion would have tht. Gentleman to town from Scotland, for it ; because he appeared norant man. Certainly he passed in that House—(Hear, not in the paper which thy signed; but in the use that' the sanction it appeared to Majesty's Government. Ur he submitted that the Right withdraw his proposition, devised to express the sense subject—(Hear, hear). Mr. BATHURST said the pub; dress arose entirely from mad as possible an apology was made Gazette. The Right Honourab) justice, have quoted the ' Bathurst's) speech on the . fit He then stated, that the Addr , through inadvertence, and his Majesty's Ministers = ( ground of the circumstance 1 by inadvertence, and on that ceived the House ought to Sir J. NEWPORT assured Gentleman, that the noise night he alluded to was so from hearing the whole of an entry to the following effect pll_p -..---- C 'sno a o bra l t l l l i n ec c a :i i t l: i° li o nt i lf trn r o L e o rn o i t i t n e l.. d tie n o: l: n . es t' ! f tiled the this were to be an ea • .sses of another tedl l7 s l :: :}tree it 7: accusations were I. colleagues, the most n a „ NI to them for their Pa r . e most gross imputa t i ons . .ion, of disregard to the s. If the Gentlemen 0p; • ould be thus covered, h e r-pmject—(A /41/04, 4 ed set, he contended d u i but as Gevernmeta h a d ad assent to this public:' or d be deemed unnecessari l not have troubled th 4 is on this occasion, if i a I fallen from th e New ." ottsly put forward as ti t inhappy Moderator %h a individual might be, a , bed him, a very respee t . been with him that ti t r publication had rested, , have been unsvotthy of 't ouse—(fle&r).—llut w i at 1 i s was, that it found its tt pu pst b ar l ra i t t st a io of l ti l o , n tha t ned t c d o e a r nsa b the itnu i tiingn . : nill !d by the Crown—V/earl, ;g was, that the influenceof c knowledge of his opinion, k' iding their decisions; ar,4 nt M.ijeszy any part of tie ' 3( much mo,e to chary. coitstitutional--(Krzr),... 7 breach of privilege that rof the Crown public!! I actcrizing tile debates; I received—(H.:7, krar).— s) had desired an apolv nce—he had caused it to ' it had taken place. It to justify the House h sivilege of this nature,lte not pass over any ode led an apology was ter, in admitted the good sent s observations. He agreed I they ougkt not tome - ' o much severity as to pre. adverting on the proceed. . between the Memben om they represented,thee • scion of sentiment,aud for keeping up that con . ' 1 we the act complained ti y portion of their core. ' if the Crown, and that. ". .tant that it should sack 'hey all knew that m 4 '3 ate years where the Hoar a much severity, soitrad. *_ Igs which assumed a pops. ; nceived it was not 260: exercising the author*/ against the Crown, ands gainst the People—(Bart. at individual - Member, it xercise a sound discretion, • übmit a complaint to' thing. It was a ;nerd designated as an " Oppo know of an Oppmiionil s state to his Majesty tut 4 s in Parliament who mde ional speeches?" If the '! :ould be brought form!, o t it would be matter Si. each of privilege—(an; the matter could be tbe . 1 y till w re ou m ld a b in e o so l :a th n e. forgelei pagasi Lord wcfnld point outside igy could be placed on di would be satisfied: bade iess to drop, as the Ni r were placed in this set made in the Gazette on* that House, and all thee as a declaration that Mil • at they might do the' • efficient step were et!' ke the same &tinselled • iandon the matter air )ffered an apology ode' needing was wag? • sought that he ones tsly against any indesill . the effect of bringagd. Scotland, be should be seed • ed to him to be aMt the Rev. Gentleman in! Lt had been made of it, set to have received from fear, hear}. Under these circumsteetes , unless some means er_ en :ht se H o o f n. knew very Th littl e e siin ; 4ll . , inadvertence, and ass. • see un• it di* s made for to th ß e ar li net onse cleli cs: o th ura e p ub licati on bßarot o stl f the A l nt latter part of his (Mr' first night of the Session , " Address appeared eel I without the sanctioe . : • c hat ground alone, be d'ce hHaevatiing pass it over. h b e ee ar n ).-- 0 0ccaioo l 1 IP ) fired great as to prevelY 5 " . his explanation. f: 4 the R p i ffect would mcct the g re h v C a ll iled n° 0 D : c 4 1 : :, se which