Star. — London, England, 1822-05-03 00:00:00

,~ -~ ~•. P a ~ .~ .~ " 1 7 - r?'" 7qrsn'tl o ks Adiouratd.. 1 PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF LORDS, MAY 2. : Counsel were called to upon the pending claim to the Earl dom of Marchmont, when Messrs. Wirrusext.t., 13r.ousistAn, and Bor.:amen, appeared on behalf of Alexander Home, Esq. the claimant to the tide ; and for the Crown were ranged the AT- Toentsv-Gattram., and the LORD ADV3CATR and Sot.scrroz-Ge- VILRAL.fDr Scotland. Mr. Wrrtnuct.t. then opened the ease, after which two pa tents of creation were delivered in by ?dr. Jove Hour, who deposed' td the correetneis of the copies, which he had transcribed from die, record books. Oustaeus Hume Rochfort, Esq. was examine d b y Mr. Deocanise d al considerable length, respecting the traditicual Ohfa mily evid in favour lai of the c mant. The proc - p we ft not interrupted till nearly fire, when the further * was adjourned to another day. The Dublin Knintiling Hospital MU was brought up from the House of Commodaby Mr. ELL*. Several other Private Dills weer alio broUght u and read a first time. The wa rd of IIMUFORT brought up a Petition from the Churchwardens,: ice. of a certain Parish in Somersetshire, aping tfte eitbak Oahu*. The Fseri of VIA NET presented a Petition from the Kai tarian Dissenters of Kendal, in Westmoreland, praying for an alteration in the Mirriage Act. The Dank' of Ittitind Myna read a third time and passed.— HOUSE OP COMMONS. The St { , aka took the Chair fi ve minutes before four o'clock. Mi. Alderman WOOD presented a Petition from Richard Tyrrell; Esq.-the City Remembrancer, against the London Water-works Bilk—Laid on the table. Mr. LA M ETON presented a Petition from the Inhabitants of Sunderland, praying for a revision of the Criminal Laws.— Ordered to be printed. Mr. mAnnyArr presented a Petition from some Mer chants of the City of London against the renewal of the West India Dock Charter.—Laid on the table. Mr. T. WILSON presented a Petition from the Sugar Re finers of the City of London, praying that the Bill, permitting the West India Sugar Planters to send their produce to dif ferent ports of Europe may not pass into a law. After some conversation, in which Sir W. CURTIS, Sir J. NRW !MST, Mr. MARRYATT, Mr. RICARDO, and Mr. BRIGHT, took a share, the Petition was read, and laid on the table. Mr. BY NC presented a Petition from the Leather Dealers of Uxbridge, praying for a repeal of the Leather Tax.—Laid on the table. - TREMAYNE presented a Petition from the Inhabit ants of Kingsend and Cawsand, near Plymouth, complaining of the inundations caused by the Breakwater. After a few observations from Sir 6. Cocramtx and Mr. D. GILBERT, who said the complaint was rather premature, the Pe- tition was laid on the table: Mr. WYNN presented a Petition from certain Inhabitants of Yorkshire in favour of the Yorkshire Election Poll Bill. After a few words from Mr. Remora: and Lord NORMANDY, the Petition was ordered to be printed. Mr. HUME wished to know when the Returns of the Ex penses of Ceylon, the Mauritius, and the lonian Islands might be expected to be laid upon the table ? Mr. WIL3IOT said they were in a state of forwardness. Lord A. HAMILTON presented a Petition from Stirling, against the Royal Burghs Bill. After some words from the Marquis of LONDONDIZRY, the Pe tition was laid upon the table. Mr. GRENFELL gave notice that he would to-morrow move for Copies of all Correspondence which took place be tween his Majesty's Government and the Governor of the Bank of England. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he should deem it his duty, at the proper time, to lay these Papers upon the table of the House. Mr. GRENFELL said. that under these circumstances he would not press the motion. The ¶duquis of LONDONDERRY moved for an Address to his 3lajesty, for the production of all Charges attendant upon the Diplomatic Embassies, from 1792 to 1821, inclusive • also , for the same Account respecting Vice-Cons:lls abroad . — O rdered. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY brought up the Papers so moved for, which were laid upon the table, and ordered to be printed. Mr. CREEVEY gave notice that he would, on the 21st inst. move to obtain a repeal of the Act known by the name of the Ministerial Pension Bill. AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS. Mr. LOCK II A RT presented a Petition from several Farmers of the Counties of Suffolk, Sussex, and Gloucester, complaining of distress, and praying for protecting duties against the importa tion of foreign corn. The Hon. Member observed, that the Petitioners adverted to the propositions of the Hon. Member for Portarlington ( sir. Ricardo), which recommended that fo reign wheat now warehoused, might be permitted to go to the market under a duty of 15s. per quarter, when British wheat got up to 655. per quarter, and that foreign wheat might be im ported under a duty of 20s. when British wheat exceeded 70s. per quarter. He had no hesitation in saying that those proposi tions, if carried, would bring absolute ruin on the landed in terests of the country, merely for the benefit of a few speculators in foreign corn. Mr. RICARDO said, that there was nothing at all deceptive in his propositions. Sir T. LETIIIIRT DOE said, he differed entirely from the views of the Honourable Member fur I'ortarlington. Neither the Resolutions of the Noble Marquis nor of the Right Honour able Gentleman t Mr. Iluskisson), nor the Honourable Member for Portarlington, In his opinion, held out a prospect of relief to the farmer. Under these circumstances he should feel it his duty to lay on the table another series of Resolutions, which in his opinion would give adequate protection to the farmer, and the House and the country must make up their minds to that object. Ile might be told that the duties he was about to pro pose were too high, but he would not be driven from the attempt eten by the fear of having but few to concur with him. Mr. HUME was happy to find that the House would be in possession at last of the opinions of the Agricultural Body them selves, as to the means of relief, through the medium of one of those Members who were usually styled Country Gentlemen.— Ile trusted that the Honourable Baronet would lay his Resolu tions on the table that night, in order to allow an opportunity of having them considered by Members before the general discussion took place. Mr. W. BURRELL considered the amount of the Protect ing Duties laid down in the Resolutions of the Noble Marquis too low, considering the eirconatances under which foreign corn could be introduced into this country. It had come to his know ledge that day, that the freight of wheat to this country was 3s. CA of barley Is. 3d. and of oats 9d. After a few words from Mr. LOCKHAAT, the Petition was laid on the table. Mr. COKE presented two Petitions from two Hundreds In Norfolk, complaining of distress.—Laid on the table. )lr. DENISON presented a Petition from a Gentleman of the name of Taylor, complaining of the ruin brought on his clr curnstantes by the alteration in the value of the currency. He set forth, that he was the proprietor of estates in Hertfordshire, llerefordsbire, and Sussex ; that he had invested in them a suns of 2150,000, and that, after the alteration of the currency and the change of times, he was compelled to mortgage them for . 2C60,900. The mortgagee had foreclosed, and the estates were now 'tend for half what he gave for them. He had purchased thise estates at a period when the guinea was sold for 265. The liOn. Member dwelt forcibly on the facts of the Petition, and concluded by observing that the consequence of the present dif- Acuities must be, that the landlord must abandon his estates, the tenant become a serf, and the new proprietor a trustee for taxa tion and pauperism. Mr. Servant ONSLOW said, he did not think the complaint at those much to toe attended to, who stated themselves to be aggrieved immediately by the alteration of the currency, for every man who made a contract during the time when the cur rency- was in an unnatural state of depression, must have ex pected at some time or another that it would be restored to a sound state. Mr. WESTERN begged that the House would attend to the fact now before theta—that an Hon. and Learned Gentle. man, habitually a supporter of Ministers, adverted to a period when the currency was in au unnatural state ; and yet in that very same year aid the House of Commons pass a Resolution, stating that a pound note and a shilling were equal in vt.lue to a guinea--(Cheers). He believed that the Hun. acid Learned tieutlentan was amongst the majority on that occasion —(Mr. herjeant Onslow said he was not then in Parliament).—lle would contend, that every wan who stood in the encomiums „ire , Pir”. - - • , no- ... ~~ , I 1104 :-‘lk tbe - Liiss tie Chsibe " ‘ 6 l l4eitilli sel at tbat il aratesiese fraud bad a right *caste to 'Vol" , had been coMeDitted u hilt. It ttia net a few that had to woo p o u t • d om e/w o re *Wens and thelliNbil Who were vie dins to delatostrausiltsd fraudulent iiiitbure, • Mr. • ONSLailOodWedstaoidirposioseed.wasmienotesdln yPavericircoenal when the cootinnecteduivri4hthitewitcht he li t a ri d cti g on iveni tt. was ow for the last . MI foe Mr. BROUOHAM said. that his Hen. Friend had did re _ fleeted on the Parliament of 1811 ; but his censure did not go far enough. He might ha* remembereid that this House, on the 13th of May, 1811, neared that a Pound nate sad a shilling were not in themselves, but in public estimation equivalent to a guinea ; and that same mouse did, within two short months, pass, by an equal majority, a Bill to punish by fine and litoptison ment the man wko should take less than twenty shillings for a . pound note. So that they had a Resolution in May, declaring that in public estimation a auk-note was worth twenty shillings, and that in two months after, that House—(be spoke not of the pre. sent House—Go' forbid he should place himself in such jeo pardy as to its vengeance, as ti speak his opinion of the present House !)—but that House with the knowledge that at the very time the note was worth but fourteen shillings—(too much in deed for their dirty rag !)--they passed an Act--they clothed themselves in a spirit of repentance, in the white sheet of au Act of Parliament, compelling the Public tp take it for 20s. If ever conduct so completely stultified the actors as this, he would be content to respect the Parliament of 1811. Mr. MONCK said, the condition of the Petitioner was a frightful instance of the mischiefs attending any tampering with the currency. Any man who had embarked his capital in the iurcbase of land at the time when paper was depreciated, was now half ruined ; and if his purchase left half the purchase-money on mortgage, he was quite ruined ' • for what he had paid was ir recoverable, and the estate might now be foreclosed for the mortgage money. The Member for Portarlington thought the difference occasioned by the resumption of cash payment was only nine or ten per cent. but he (Mr. Mooch) believed It to be not less than from thirty-See to fifty per cent. The price of gold bad no more to do with the question than the price of snuff, or any other commodity—( A laugh). He, however, distinctly begged to be understood as approving of the Act of 1819. He felt grateful to his Majesty's Ministers for that messurei and. thought the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Peel) who had brought it forward was entitled to the thanks of the country. Mr. RICARDO said, that in his calculations on the effect of the Bill of 1819, he had always referred to prices as they were at the time of the passing of that measure. He could not think, however, that by any calculation the difference caused by the Act in question could be shewn to amount to 50 per cent. Mr. MONCK said, that an those were mistaken who esti mated the extent of the depreciation by the value of gold only. Mr. ELLICE said, there was one fact more extraordinary than all, and which ought not to be passed unnoticed. It was, that in the year IBIS, when the amount of Bank-notes in circu lation was greater than in any year during the war, there being then a circulation of Bank-notes of not less than thirty millions, and the amount of the country bankatotes was great hi propon. tion, the market-price of gold was £3. 185.6 d. Mr. RICARDO observed, it was clear that the value of money was not to be measured by the price of gold, but by the currency; for an alteration in the value of money, and an alter. ation in the value of the currency, were two different things. If we regulated our currency by any particular standard, we must be subject to all the alterations of that standard. The Petition was ordered to be printed. DISTREBS.—EXTENSION OF TilE BANE CHARTER. Sir T. LETHBRIDGE presented a Petition from the Landholders and Tradesmen of one of the Hun dreds of Somersetshire, complaining generally of distress, and praying for a reduction of taxation.— The Hon. Baronet stated that the Petition came from a part which was once considered the richest of the county. He agreed with the Petitioners, that, un less some effectual reduction of taxes were made, the present unexampled distress of the country could not be alleviated. With regard to the plans lately-pro posed by his Majesty's Ministers, and more especially that which related to chartering Country Banks, he augured no great relief from them, for, in truth, there was no complaint as to the circulation of Conn try Bank-notes. He was afraid the primary conse quence of these measures would be to give to the Bank of England a continuance of its monopoly, without doing anything for public benefit. Being upon the subject, he could not help saying that he thought it a little odd that the Right Hon. Gentle. man (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) should pro pose to the Bank to renew their Charter eleven years before it expired--(Hear, hear).—He had great con fidence in that Right Hon. Gentleman, and he hoped therefore no definite arrangement upon so important a question would be come to, until the whole had been submitted to Parliament. , Mr. GItENFELL said be was glad the extension of the Charter to the Bank had been touched upon by the Hon. Baronet, as it gave him an opportunity of calling upon the House to pay the greatest atten tion to that measure. For his part, he could not consider it otherwise than as a most partial—most unwise, hasty, and unjust one—(Hear, was on Tuesday night, for the first time, that he (Mr. Grenfell) heard of this plan from the ltight Hon. Gentleman, who then stated that it was his intention to renew the Charter, without any stipula tion whatever. The same opinion was avowed this day by the Right Hon. Gentleman and a Noble Lord, in their communication to a Bank Court, which was held this day. It was stated that, upon no other condition but the allowing of Charters to Country Banks, the Charter to the Bank of England would be renewed fur ten years, after the present Charter expired. It was clear, therefore, that no restrictions were imposed, or reservations made. The Bank were of course pleased with the measure, for they could not be otherwise, and a Learned Gentleman congratulated the Court of Proprietors upon the very favourable terms which they obtained. But he (Mr. Grenfell) deplored that such a measure had been conceded by his Majesty's Government. Ile had hoped that, after the experience which the country had of the enormous sacrifices which they were obliged to make, in consequence of the immense ex pense brought upon them by this monopolizing body —after seeing the tyranny which it exercised over Government itself—after seeing that it abrogated one of the greatest benefits which :t could bestow upon the commercial world, by still refusing to dis count at four per cent.—(a measure that would give incalculable relief)—that, after all these, his Ala jesty's Ministers would not have had the temerity to concede a renewal of this odidus monopoly. He called upon the House to interpose its authority, and put a stop to this negociation. For his own pail, he looked upon it with alarm, and he now gave noticei that he would oppose the extension of the Charter to the Bank, under any circumstance. Mr. J. SMITH said he had no disposition to enter into a debate upon a question which was not before the House. He only wished to say that, there being a variety of reports upon the renewal of the Charter to the Bank, he did not give an entire credence to them all; and he would advise Members to be equally cautious. One thing he was almost persua ded of—he could hardly think that Government had made these concessions to the Bank fur nothing— (l/ear, hear).—But he lose to observe upon a remark hich fell horn the lion. 51c4er for Penryn (Mr. ...a :: • • . . Grenfesll).•4le had state& that WU part of the plan to charter Country Banks. New be r. smith) did not recollect that the Noble Marquis stated any in rEntion of erecting such establishments; and, in effect, hebelieved, that it was not intended to do so. He believed that the establishments proposed would be an association of bankers for different purposes. He mentioned this merely to disabuse the public Mind, as a contrary impression might be productive of some bad effects. Mr. HUSKISSON said he was obliged to protest against this premature discussion of questions of the first magnitude upon every light occasion, and with out formal notice. This practice was neither good, as it regarded the economy of the time of the House, nor just towards the measures themselves, inasmuch as they would not receive a due share of attention. Surely when a particular day was fixed for discussing a measure, why not wait till that day, and not anti cipate it by premature and irrelevant observations. If every proposition in the speech of the Noble Mar quis was to be referred to on the presenting of every Petition, the House would never have done, and the busineis for which it met each day would never be gone through. It was a practice which had increased greatly of late, but he hoped Hon. Members would see the propriety of suffering the stated business of I the day to come on at a regular hour. Mr. CREEVEY rose to protest, in his turn, against the doctrine laid down by the Right Hon. Gentle man. It was said that questions should not be brought in without notice ; but did he forget that the cloctt ine of giving notice was of a very recent origin? For merly no notice was given, and indeed it seemed the most Constitutional mode, of stating grievances upon the presenting of Petitions—(Hear, hear).—lt was certainly convenient for Ministers, to whose ears grievances were unpleat,ing, to fix a particular day for the discussion of a particular question, and have done with it. This was not the way, however, to deal fairly with the country. The true way of discussing evils, was to discuss them often ; and surely there never was an occasion which challenged such a dis cussion more than the presenting of this Petition, upon which the Hon. Baronet very properly made such remarks as seemed to him to arise out of it.— He hoped other Gentlemen would follow his exam ple, and that they would state their opinions openly and broadly, feeling that they exercised a right, not that they were abusing a courtesy granted to them by the Right HonouraLle Gentleman and his Col leagues—(clear, hear). Mr. HUME said, that it would be well if the Right Hon. Gentleman bad considered a little, before he attacked the Hon. Baronet for broaching a question without notice. Let him ask his Right Hon. Friend (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) whether he had given notice of his plan respecting,the Bank, or whe ther he had not in that respect dealt unfairly with the House, by taking it by surprise ?—(Hear, hear). The great complaint on all hands—indeed the bur den of the objection to the Bank affair was, that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had taken so important a step as extending the Bank Charter, without giving notice of his intention to this House—(Hear, hear). — The effect of the Right Hon. Gentleman's conduct was this—that as Parliament, at least many in that House, were willing at all events to make good his (the Chancellor's) pledges, good or bad, they were thus prematurely committed to support a measure upon which they were as yet but partially informed. ' And by thus anticipating the expiration of the Bank Charter, the Right Hon. Gentleman had tied up the hands of future Chancellors of the Exchequer, and prevented them from reducing taxes, and making the currency available to the public service to the amount of two millions. There were yet eleven years to run of the Charter, and a great many changes might take place in that time—(Hear). —He hoped the landed Gentlemen would oppose themselves to this plan, and that they would not lose the opportu nity of placing two millions yearly to the credit of the public service. He had mentioned this sum, be cause he was persuaded, that if an establishment si milar to the Bank was set up, under the patronage of this House, the sum stated would be gained as well in the management of the debt, as in the other transactions with Government—(Hear). The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, he had no intention of entering upon the discussion of the Bank question, which was of great importance, in cidentally. He could not, however, suffer the remarks made by some Honourable Members opposite, re ferring more immediately to himself, to pass unan swered. He had been accused of not dealing fairly with the House, as to the renewal of the Charter of the Bank without giving notice. But he would ap peal to the House, whether he could or ought to mention the matter in Parliament, until he had first consulted with the Bank Directors, and ascertained how far they favoured the scheme, as without their consent it would be nugatory ?—(Hear, hear). A ne gociation was accordingly opened with the Bank, in the first instance; and as it was now terminated, the House would, in a little time, be enabled to bring its judgment to bear upon the whole question. It would be his duty to submit all the documents to the House, and it would rest with them to ratify or annul the steps which had been taken. He had no wish to an ticipate the decisions of Parliament; but he wished to remind them, that it seemed advisable upon all hands to regulate the circulation of Country Bank notes, and certainly there was no question more im portant. It was desirable to increase the issue of one pound country notes upon good security, which last object could only be obtained by associated Com- 1 panics of Bankers upon an extensive scale; but to obtain this, it was necessary to make some terms with the Bank of England, as their Charter formed a bar to the erection of such Companies ; and these extended to the renewed issue of one pound notes.— But how to obtain this adequate security to the Pub lic from Country Bankers, was still a question ofl great difficulty. Of late years, very great losses had been sustained by the failure of Country Banks, and Parliament was called upon to adopt some means of preventing like occurrences in future. To effect this, two modes presented themselves: one was to require from all such Banks a deposit of capital equal to the amount of notes which they might issue, and the other to establish Banks upon the principle of so much capital being embarked as would protect the Public against all tear of failure. The only way of accomplishing the latter, was to admit a large num ber into the Company, upon the plan of the Banks in Scotland. That the system of bankinz in Scot- I !land was Much superior tu'ihat 6f tliis comstry, there could not be a dtlubti for in 1798, when upwards of SOO Banks in England stopped 'payment, there was not a single failure in Scotland. This fact shewed the superiority of the Scottish system. Aar:lit-could not be said that this failure arose from a scarcity pe gold ; for the country was then full of gold, and the restrictions upon the Bank of England had not ye t been imposed. It was dear, therefore, thatliowee e e much gold was in circulation, the Public were gioe the more secure from the failure of Country Banks. The present plan would, . after the example of Scot. land, let in so many capitalists to the concern, that failure was impossible. There had been but three failures in Scotland during a century, and of these two paid off fully, and the third made sornefair term% 'But to set up these Banks, as he said before, it sv;:s ilecessary to obtain from the Bank of England some relaxation of their charter ; and as the measure was wanted immediately, Government had thought fit 4 by the l'.ank foregoing their right for the eleven years to come, to propose to them a renewal of the charter at that time, when their Charter would expire. This was the outline of the plan, but the particulars l i e would be able to state in a few days. He ha d difficitlti, however, in saying that the sank had given no pecuniary consideratien whatever for the terms which were made with them. With regard to the question of management of the Debt, and the other transactions between the Bank and Government, it would be open to Parliament, when the Charter had expired, to revise all these particulars. They would not be included in the renewal of the Charter to the Bank. Thus had Government, to gain an im mediate advantage, certainly anticipated the expira tion of the Bank Charter; because, without making terms with the Bank, the other measure could not be carried.. When, however, the statement was laid be. fore Parliament, it would be seen that Govertuneat, had not been remiss in imposing such restrictions as would secure the circulation of Country Bank-notes upon a sate and solid foundation—(Hear, hair). Mr. MANNING defended the conduct oldie Bank Directors, and complained of the disposition to attack the Bank, which prevailed upon every occasion with certain Gentlemen in that House. Mr. ELLICE said it was quite unnecessary to vin dicate the Bank Directors, for no blame e,, t lid b e imputed to them for having made the best bargain they could for the proprietors. This House would, however, be to blame if it did not attend to the terms of this bargain, and see that the interests of the Pub lic were not compromised in them—Wear, hear).— What he complained of was, that the Right ti-uour able Gentleman (the Chancellor of the I.xihequer) had given the go-by to the main question, and so had a Noble Lord in another place. The Right fl.nottr able Gentleman had pledged himself that he would not again bring on this question without submitting the matter to Parliament—(Hear, Bear).—%% ith re gard to the good that was to result from it, it ap peared to him that as there was no complaint respect ing the circulation of Country Bank -notes, any alter ation in them could do no great good. Sir M. W. RIDLEY wished to know whether, in the proposed plan, any deposit was required.frc m the bankers? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER re plied in the negative. He stated, that this was one of the modes of establishing Country Banks on a se cure basis; but the other mode had been found more practicable, and as the property of all concerned was answerable, it was not deemed necessary to ihsist upon any deposit of capital.—Petition brought up. Sir T. LETHBRIDGE, in moving that it be laid upon the table, said nothing that lie had heard to night, though coming front so high a quarter as the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Hu:lemon), shculd deter him from speaking his mind upon every griev ance which it became his business to gate to this House upon presenting a Petition. The Petition was then read, laid upon the table, and ordered to be printed. JOINT POSTMASTERS.GENERAL. th to Lord NORMANBY said, that he rose on the pre sent occasion with less embarrassment than he did when last he called the notice of the House to that question. If it stood solely on the same grounds as on the former occasion, he could hardly think of em ploying their time for the purpose of coming to the same conclusion. He now felt that he had stronger claims, not only arising from the arguments of those who joined him in opinion, but from those of his op ponents—arguments which had been rendered the theme of conversation from one end of the kingdom to the other, and which had been alluded to at every public meeting. That argument was founded on the necessity of supporting the influence of the Crown -(Hear). It was to those Hon. Members who ad- vanced it that he owed this novelty in Lcnstitutienal doctrine, that useless places should be kept up indis criminately for the purpose of upholding the intl.:- ence of the Crown—(Hear,hear). Innovations more dangerous than these tenets never had bcea duced to that House—they were far more so thaa any proposition of his. He considered that the or:;.; was placed on those who introduced then in open: • tion to his motion, and not upon him or his friends ;It making any attempt at the alteration of existing law.. With regard to the more weighty arguments whic, had been made use of, a great reliance was placed on the antiquity of this specific office. if it had Off' ginated even in the time of Queen Anne, there wen: many other Acts equally venerable, equally to be respected on that ground, which had been deemed unnecessary, and had been repealed by that House. Another argument was founded en the great increaa; of business at the Post Office. It might be will madc use of if his motion was for a reduction of Mr. ties , iing's salary, or those of the clerks at pre•ent ployed ; but how it could affect the two, NAlenxi) in question, who have so little to do with the dec.!;:' of the office, and were not aXected by its iocre.t,ect business, he was at a loss to know. On the la-t de bate on the question, a Noble Lord had sp kca tone of declamation of the rash innovation to be introduced by the measure. But he seta: d cos: fidently appeal to the House, who was really the to.i innovator ? On that night the Noble Marquis (Len donderry) did not seem to be aware that Lord Mr: catty had been a Joint Postmaster - General , and hi' introduction of the question of responsibility seemed to be merely an ad caplanduns argument. It ti.e; re; ferred to the Bill which had been introduced iii 181-- and received the sanction of the House in 1813. they would find the principle he at present advocated there