Star. — London, England, 1823-03-11 00:00:00

L.• It to se :d DTI !n- )e -1.4e the purchase of fresh. horses was all that had been charged in the Estimites., Mr. BENNET suggested to the Noble Lord-the P • p r o, of removing the most intolerable nui s an c e • - of the Life and Horse Guards Ewing alloy/echo eier cise in the Par ks, to the great disturbance of persons riding these, and of those who lived within sacra* of their fire-arms—(Hear). The Resolution was then agreed to. On the Resolution fOr a Vote of Supply for Public' Departments, Mr. HUME said, he thought the whole Establish ment for the Audit of Old Accounts ought to be-put an end to, the only - effect of it being to give vexation to the persons on whom it operated. If Government ILA been negligent in passing public accounts, it was 7 , 0 t fair to individuals to bring them in debtors after a lapse of upwards of twenty years. Mr. T. WILSON concurted in the view taken by the Honourable Member for Aberdeen, as to the un fair and vexatious operation of this mode of doing Dtiblic business. • Lord PA LM ERSTON could only assure the House that great progress had been made in examining the Accounts in arrears. He admitted the hardship pointed out by the Hon. Member who had spoken, and it was in consideration of that that he had ab- stained from that rigour which marked the exami• ration of accounts of the present day. Thus, where . an accountant was found to admit that he had a balance in hand, there could be no reason for not in. forming the claimant. Where also a charge was mak, obviously with a view to fraud, the means of recovering it were not relaxed. But in other cases the same severity was not observed. As to the ex pense of the department, it cost last year 8,0001 and had recovered public money to the amount of 60,0001. —(Near).—The defalcations discovered in the Ac counts of Agents were deducted from the issues due to them for the year in which the balances against them were struck. In this way 45,0004 had been 1 recovered, and 15,0001. in addition bad actually been paid into the Bank of England. He anticipated an early termination to the labours of this office ; but in the meantime the House would see that the public had no cause of complaint against it—(Hear). On the Resolution for a Vote for the Irish Vo lunteer Corps, Mr. HUNIF. renewed his objections to the continu ance of the Yeomanry system in Ireland. It was ad mitted that the majority of these corps were Orange men, and surely the Government would not encourage the maintenance of a body who were bound by oaths to a cause inconsistent with the present policy of the administration of affairs in that country. Many of these corps, comprising in all, he believed, upwards of 30,000 men, would not allow a Catholic to enter them, and thus it was that, instead of maintaining • the peace, they were the first disturbers of it—(llcar, . hurl ).—He heard the cheers of Honourable Members, Ipit he asked some .of them who cried « Hear!" whe ther they did nut know what he said to be true— whether they did not know instances in which the Yeomanry Corps had been regarded as the instigators of disorder? The Hon. Member here made some allusion to the Londonderry Corps of Yeomanry, and a , ,ked the Attorney-General for Ireland, Whether these. ;nen had not treated him, in effigy, with every indig nity, on account of his acting in a manner which marked his hostility towards Orange principles? He beiieved they were more opposed to the Government than not—and he asked whether this was a fit state_ of things in which these men ought to be allowed to have arms in their hands? He knew the uti lity of these Corps of Yeomanry when they were first embodied; but the time was passed for that, and they ought no longer to be encouraged.— He took that opportunity of saying, that he had been mistaken relative to a motion he had given notice. of for the 30th April. It :had been supposed from that notice that he wished to remove the Marquis Wel lesley ft om Ireland.: hisintention, however, was quite the reverse, and he hoped he would long remain there. His object was to have certain regulations made relative to the Noble Marquis's successor, whomsoever he might be. Now with regard to these Yeomanry Corps, he hoped, his Majesty's Govern ment would let the Bill with respect to them expire, and for that purpose he should propose an Amend ment, which would go to cut off their supplies from .June next, at which period the Bill naturally ex pired. He was sorry the late Secretary for Ireland was not in the House, for he was sure they would have heard from him that he was adverse to those Corps, composed of Orangemen. The Honourable 111,:mher concluded by moving, that instead of 19,384/. the vote lie 9,6921. The question having been put, Sir JOHN BRYDGES said, he did not know the source from which the Hon. Member for Aberdeen derived his information respecting the Irish Yeo manry Corps; but let that source be what it might, he would take the liberty to tell him that his infor mation was incorrect—(Hear).—During the whole of the late Rebellion, he (Sir John Brydges) had had the honour to serve in Ireland, and to have several Yeo manry Corps under his command, and he was bound to declare that no part of his Majesty's forces per formed their duty with more zeal and energy than those corps—(Hear, hear).--He had also an oppor tunity of knowing that since the period to which be referred, the conduct of the Yeomanry had. been exactly the same as before. The Hon. Member was quite mistaken in suppoing that the only qualifica tion necessary to obtain admission into a Yeomanry Corps was to be an Orangeman. He (Sir John brydges) knew of no other qualification than loyalty and good conduct—(Hear,hear).—lle supposed that ' , the Hon. Member proposed his amendment upon economical grounds. If that were his motive, he be lieved that the Hon. Member would And himself mistaken. There was no species of military force se Constitutional, and at the same time so economical, as the Yeomanry Ccrps---(Hear, hear). Sir G. HILL rose to rescue the Londonderry Carps Ul Yeomanry from the aspersions which had been cast upon them by the Hon. Member for Aberdeen. That Hen. Member had stated distinctly that the Londonderry Yeomanry had been created only for t the purpose of exciting disturbances. He ,requested: that the Hon. Member would have the candour-10 state irons what source he derived the information yrkon which he presumed to make such s artassertion ?—. (Cries of " Order").—Tile Hon. Member had state l„ that the Londonderry Yeomanry was raised for the , Putpose,of cleating disturbances in Ireland—(" Noa 'no,"from !tame) —lf the I-lon. Member retracted . what he had said-- ; Mr. HUME—I d o 'pot retract. ' Mr. BENNET obserirect that the Hein. Mtmbei . opposite must have dreamed what he charged 'upon . . his lion. Friend. ____ ______ _ ......,.. • . Sir GEORGE HII 4 L—" Then I. desire to know What words he did user—He maintained, that when an Honourable Memb er asperse d a b o d y o f men so l valuable as the Yeomanry had proved themselves, commanded by the honourable men of the hold, and filled by respectable farmers and others, it was :his duty to give up the source of his information.' He thought he was bound to do that, and not to leave it upon the mere assertion of the Hon.. Member for Aberdeen that such was the fact. The Hon. Baro net proceeded to enter into a defence of the Yeomanry Corps. There were, he stated, three provinces of Ireland, proved to be sworn to the overthrow of the Laws and Government, and the extirpation of all Protestants; and these provinces were chiefly pro tected by the Yeomanry—and this was the Opportu nity taken to malign these bodies., The Hon. Meth ber, in particular, had attacked his (Sir George Hill's) Corps, the Londonderry Yeomanry : and he must say, that be suspected the quarter whence it origi nated. But to give the House an idea of the justice of the charge, he would state how they had of late been engaged. On the 2-ith of October, three hun dred of them were put upon permanent duty, thus setting free one of the best regiments of the line to go elsewhere. They had done garrison duty in the city and liberties of Londonderry till the month olJune List year, and during the whole of that period not one complaint was made against any one individual. The 18th December was the Anniversary of raising I the siege of the town, and had always been cele-d bratcd, and always with perfect unanimity; but be cause these individuals had got arms in their hands, the celebration of an event so dear to the citizens • of Londonderry was abandoned—(Hear, hear).—Ano ther Honourable Member and himself had .been to Dublin, drawn there by his Majesty's presence, rind returned to Londonderry on the 22d, when two or three hundred persons assembled round his hou'se to welcome his return ; having done which, they peace fully separated. Upon this trifling incident a com plaint was transmitted to the Irish Government, that the Commanding Officer and Corps of Londonderry Yeomanry had violated. the recommendation of his Majesty, by assembling in arms for the purposes of triumph and celebration. The complaint was -re ferred to the Brigade Major of the district, and an inquiry, occupying five days only, served to prove that not one of the Corps was in arms ; not even the band which attended with music —(Hear). — It was true it had been shewn that the tunes they played were 4 i The Battle of the Boyne." " Croppier, lie Down," and " GOD save the King."—(Hear, hear). The Yeomanry of Ireland, he assured the House, not ' only deserved, but required their confidence, in the present situation of that country. Rebellion there wal going on at this hour, and it was really impossible that human nature could bear to hear, night after night, the aspersions that had been cast upon them. He ‘%ished not to transgress the wise rules of that House, but he desired to make a declaration, which he made on the honour of a Gentleman. This was, that he had been brought up in the principles called Orange prih ciples, and should continue in them to the day of his . death. He declared, upon his honour, he was not an Orangeman, neither bound by oath nor association to those bodies. Neither did he know one Gentleman whom he visited, in his part of the county, who-was an Orangeman. That combination was mostly to be found amongst the farmers, who; impelled by the first principles of human nature—those of self-preserva- , tion—had first thought of thus associating for the sake' of protection, and nothing else. But persons of his rank in life did not feel the necessity of such a com bination, and therefore never thought of joining in it. With regard to the projected Bill on this subject, he begged to say, that as part of the law of the land it was good and necessary. With regard to secret so cieties, and secret oaths, .he was not one who upheld them.' What was required in the present times, be considered, was ultra-loyalty. Mr. SPRING RICE was of opinion, that if good were to be derived from these discussions, or concord promoted, they must be conducted with good temper —( I kar, hear).—He protested against the principle of Orange bodies. He knew that some of the best and most honourable men belonged to them, whose good intentions were checked by party ties. He ap plied this both to sworn Orangemen, and to those who, like the Honourable Member opposite (Sir G. Hill), had taken the infection in the natural way.— (A laugh).—He was opposed to those who were for throwing overboard the oath of the Orangeman and the forms of Orangeism, but for preserving and che rishing the .glory, the triumph, and spirit of the party. He was sorry to have heard the declaration , of the Honourable Meniber'opposite of his determined adherence to this party-spirit, as he thought it was calculated to do anything but good on the other side of the water. With regard to the Yeomanry, many, he believed, were not Orangemen,' but the corps were becoming more and more so. In the South of Ire land, Orange Lodges had first been instituted by a set of Policemen, and had ever since been extending, their baneful influence to all the:constituted authorities, and to every institution. , Mr. DA'WSON regretted that the tone of his Hon. Friend (Mr. S. Rice) in some parts did not savour of that conciliation which he . professed. He regretted to hear from the Hon. Gentleman the - assertion that the Police establishments in tire south of Ireland were a great cause of promining 'Orange Restitutions, and that the spirit or these perti4ded - so great a portion, of the local authorities. Now, he would refer the Hon,-Member to the town of. Bandon; in the County' of Cork, which might be called the very focus of Oraugeism.in that•pan bittreUtustry. It was well knoWsiihat an insctiptibti 'retabibed on the gates of I that' tOtiri in theie *orris— • 11 Turk, Jew, or Atheist May enter here—•-bat not a Papist." This, which was the symbolilijd . rnotfo of the ()range ' 616 Of that day, was. itieiritAidei'at'was well known, long before the forniatiOn 'dr thi nafnts Alluded to. It was .thOrelibie kitfair to itNhate to die "Mice establiihzi2eits . di:4'444th - .had eisik.d lonk.lrefore their). ./fiqb Itie'asairition 01 1 thefroU.. htember (Mr. Hume), tbaelhe Trebtdanry COrjis' were disposed tO• abuse their a uthoraY,' And- to'fbrineni ther than repress disturbances, he should say, that it was rather too hard, that a Member not connected ,• [with the country, alit derielog his infnrmation from • • Ake, te l pnris of Others, * dioWd make such a state naseet. The Hon. Member Ttiriltnerick, who was adqUaintedrwishthe country, did ant make sorb an :assertion, because he knew it:woulJ be unfounded. The Hon. Member then proceeded to shim. bat in six, Counties of the north of Ireland which he. named, whet the number of Yeomanry corps was Veil , great, the tranquillity of the country was best prestried ; while in the six Counties of the south, where the num ber of-corps was comparatively small, there had beat , the greatest disorders ; the greatest anarchy prevailed among a great portion of the lower classes, who thewed'neither fear of GOD nor respect for man— (Hear). He did not say that this should be a reason at the present moment fur increasing the number of those corps in the south;, for he believed, such was the desire to possess arms by the deluded followers of " Captain Rock," that a residence fn some of those Counties would not be very safe if the quantities'of arms were increased. Mr. S. RICE explained. He meant no reflection on the north of Ireland,Toevrhich he had so higha respect. Sit J. NEWPORT repelled the sweeping calum nies on the south of Ireland, where it was said that the people had no regard for either GoD or man. He took it upon him to say that a local force of Yeoman ry, though perfectly well suited to England, was en tirely unsuited to Ireland ; because into the Yeoman ry Corps of Ireland were carried all the bad and con flicting passions which agitated and divided the people of • that country. As to the rebellion in Ire land, there was much to blame on both sides; but in GOD'S name, after 20 years had gone by, it was time to put an end to all reflections on that score.—His wish was to conciliate; and that all should agree in acting according to that admirable Letter—that be quest—which his Majesty left to li eland. . He in sisted, the time when the laws were most revered WAS when the Volunteer Corps of Ireland were in com plete 'activity. Then they mixed in society without acrimony or bad feelin g. _ Then they thought of no distinctions betwe e n Protestant and Catholic ; but felt that they were all Irishmen. Would to Goo they could e eturn to that, and give up all asperity of spirit. Ms . DAWSON explained. His expressions of the population of Ireland not fearing GOD, or respecting man, s ere confined to those who appeared in arms against the State and the Country. Mr. PLUNKETT had been appealed to, whether he did not know officially that the Yeomanry had misconducted themselves. He distinctly said, that he knew of no such thing, though he was far from saying that, in so numerous a body, individual in stances of misconduct had not taken place. If they had, be was sure they were dealt with according ro law. He regretted that more of the Catholics of the North of Ireland were not in the Yeomanry Corrs of that country. It was at his house, in 1796, that the first proposition was drawn up to the Government for the formation of Yeomanry Corps. The Catho lics were not at first engaged in the Rebellion, which was first set on foot by the Presbyterians of the -North of Ireland; and when. the Catholics wished to join the. Yeomanry Corps of Dublin, they were refused admission into all but the Lawyers' Corps. He denied that the Ribbonrnen were incorporated to exterminate the Protestant Religion, but to rise against the Government, separate from this country, or join with the Radicals of England—(Hear).— Besides, the Orange Associations existed long before the e Ribbonmen, and therefore could not have been produced from them as a matter of self-preservation. He (Mr. Plunkett) entertained a confident hope that societies would soon be put down, which were known by the name of ,Ribbonmen. He also believed that the greater part of the Orangemen wished, if they could with honour, tOretire from them, and there fore he regretted that any harsh terms should be ap plied to them. Their wish was to protect the Crown and the Constitution, but they would not allow. the Catholics to associate with them. What conclusion, was drawn from that? Why, that the Catholics were unworthy of being allowed the honour to join in such honourable . and highly praiseworthy pursuits ; and was it strange if counter-associations were entered into by the Catholics? . General HART never knew any exclusion of the Catholics from the Yeomanry Corps. Mr. BUTTERWORTH had received letters from the South of Ireland, stating that the Protestant pea santry was in the utmost, danger from their Catholic neighbours. He was therefore quiteaverie to dimi 2•ishing the numbers of the Yeomanry in Ireland. Mr. GRATTAN contended, that although in the North of Ireland they had manufactures to keep the people employed and peaceable, yet the machinations which had disturbed Ireland had commenced in the North. He belonged to a Yeomanry Corps, the mem bess of which were Catholics and Protestants, yet no men could conduct themselves with more propriety. Mr.GOULBURN called the attention of the House to the real question before them, which was, would they or could they not diminish the numbers of the yeomanry in Ireland? Nothing had been urged in favour of the proposition by the Hon. Gentleman or ,those who had followed him, but these two argu ments, that there were persons in the Yeomanry who were Orangemen, and therefore the Yeomanry ought to be reduced, or that being friendly to conciliation, l those who had spoken wished the Yeomanry to be discharged. The Hon. Member for Aberdeen would discharge the whole of the Yeomanry corps because' Orangemen were in them, and because from some of them Catholics were excluded: He called the House to bear in mind the services which those et:Os had tendered. He would not look back to' the peelod o f 179 g, as tie agreed with the Right illinAltitonet, that it were better to drop the veil overithe events that day; but he begged to remind them of their services within ,the last few years, and these remem bered, it would be bad policy to dismiss. them, and be therifore thought the House could have no dia.- eultY in resisting the amendment . . - . ' --. • - -.!. Mr, ABERCROMBY - clenidd'thit thevb*eithi. Alan. Friend's proposition was to. putan4W-40 _O4 ,Yeomane farce in IFeland, ~ ...,,,,,-,.. if.(.l ~. 1., „Solo .I'4Epcif had on to *MM. !Vito*. hie, . Its be racen to wish the tiOinaitriy force done n ir li,* eritl4'iltekettien Ilti - 4citifil bot ch *t Of the corps no distinctienthesie4tiide betvetelisVetisgir licsalrid'Protestauts: 4 :-'1 -"s e , • . .•.• ~. ,r. : . , nix VEAL, in - rising to, resist the c amekdruentk dill not intend to follow the HOD. gemlier - rotAber4en through all the observations he had made, but le • - ' must say, that if the Hon. Member did not intend to abolish the Yeomanry altogether, and only to suspend their existence, he tad be en enfrnely precipitate in bringing forward his present, motion. - He meant to resist the amendment. In pointof economy, no worse measure could be proposed. The Yeomanry was art eißcient force of .50,009 m e p, kept nit ,pt lin annual expense of £19.009, anetilse,Hon. Alember,proansod to do away this co4Pg-. : 11 ,4 0 1 ,E ien4ent,Tah, # i fl ops bad. !st 4.o"Ci4iigOrr /*int ~ vkw-ritAPAL44II eating a JaCta lo 9t ••" . ' gir aCre.4q, w,950 1 1;0f ccinedepct,, The Hop r env er e we) Itnt Fognecod with Ireland; and he IMr. Peelilamented,Aapii4 no peculiar connltetion ; /frith thatcountry, the Hon. Member should ; iptelfetc sofregOC. ll o7. with its con cerns. Imput e ltions,,tyillt whoever object they mkght be made, could only produce acrimony andill-will, and he believed had only mitchieCin view. 'debt:Ted the Hon. Member would withdraw his Amendment. or that a large majority of that House would point edly condemn his motion. Mr. H. G. BENNET contended that the object of tile Hen. Member for Aberdeen was on - ly tp,promoF union,_ and to break dow n the systepi:of excltisTim. Mr. HOME explained, stating that he' liad been misunderstood in the allusion he hid; *isle.; keen misunderstood in the allusion lie ha'f mep d. corps of the Hon. Bart. (Sir c.riur.), pi . . ht • Hon. Secretary for the kiome . lsepartNept Is' ..,hun ' self said, that the gi-eat majority Qt tOPPy94IIII a 1 74 were, he believed, Orangetnen. He war; esirous of withholding the supply, - that the Teosslanr,/ .m.ight be put down, and re-es t ablished ?iitha; . fair Mixtnre of Catholics and Protestants. Mr. C. HUTCHINSON rose merely to bear W.it !less, in opposition to stlkat had been asserted in the course of the debate, that in the volunteer regiments of Cork and Clonmel the majority was composed of Catholics. In the year /798 they had shewn quite as much readiness to enrol themselves as the Proiestarits. Mr. HUME withdrew his amendment, and the original resolution was carried. When the clerk, in reading the resolutions, came to that of £11,889 for the Military Co/kge, Mr. HUME objected to the annual e4ense of the establishment, and went into some detail's, to she* that no adequate benefit was derived from' it. He proposed an Amendment, deducting from the vane 1.3,300, in -order that the office either of Governor or Deputy Governor might be abolished, and only two . Captains paid instead of four, as at present. Lord PALMERSTON contended, that it an insti tution of the kind were necessary, which was not denied, it could not exist at less charge to the ptiblic. He argued that the office olGovernor was no sinecure. Colonel DAVIES, having been educated at the College, was able to bear testimony to the needless expense of the establishment. There were no less than 68 persons, in various capacities, paid to educate 190 young men. • Sir A. HOPE, having filled the office of Governor of the College, was in a situation to declare that thle office of Governor was by no means a sinecu re; . hrs duties were anxious and laborious. The House then divided, when the numbers were— • For the Amendment, 14 I Against it, 107 j Majority,. 03. On the Resolution relative to the charge s fo r Gai risons belonging to Great Britain, at home and abroad; Mr....nUME - mated to redifte the giant from 29,0001. to 14,0001. . The Amendment was negatived without a division. The other ilesolutipns were, then agreed to, and Bills ordered tO'be brought in. ASSESSED TAXES REirllCTloiiillltt, , The CHA NCELLO R of the EXCHEQUER moved the Order of the Day•for the House going •into.h Committee on the Assessed Taxes. Reduction Bill . Mr. CURWEN he shOuldmpve tkatjt -be-e instruction to the Committee to take off theiikOldis the Windovi and'House Duty from Cot - tiles . *Of tliE rent of 51. a peat and under. The rise In lirovisiesek was an additional reason-for taking off the - Tax.- The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the law had provided for those receivingparish rev lief, and also for those who should receive a Otte: cate from their Clergyman that they Were nnatilie td pay. For these two classes the law had provided int exemption. The number of exemptions amounted to from seven to 800,000, while the number of those who paid was only 338,000. At in Scotland there were no Poor -rates, he should move to - Insert a claifie, • by Which persons inhabiting such cottages' should, if they had from three to four children, be exempted's . He should also propose another clause, by which the exemption of boys in warehouses, nosy limited., tq those of and under 14 years of age, should be extewle4 to those of the age Of 18 years. Mr. Alderman WOOD expressed a hope,:thati-thei exemption would be extended. - .7 Mr. BRIGHT was of opinion, that it would . lei better to continue the Tax on Horses and Carriage!, and take off the Tax alluded to. The House di vided :—For Mr. Curwen's Motion, 34; Against it, 8t The House then went into the Committee. The• CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER explained some alteritions which he proposed in the pan relating to com position for the Assessed Taxes, and also with regard to the Ta on Warehousemen. -Mr.. CURWEN complained of that part of the alteration which went to exempt the Scottish peasantry from the tar, they having, in his opinion, infinitely less claim than the English. Mr. WETHERELL rose to complain of ahardship to which the miusbeis of the Universities were subjected in the matter or their hones. If there were ten Fellows who had a horse a pint% all of them, as was not unusual, attended by one groom, Hips that groom was, by the productive powers - of d: Act, Multiplied, into ten grooms—a firmest which was just as reasonable is t bytes 'in one of the establishments where there werp 100 who ate ar.d drank, they should be taxed for 100 cooks and 100 butlers. This tax, too, fell most heavily upon those who were the !flat able to bear it. IC a Carat., residing within the College, kept, a horse then he had to piy the tai, whereas,the Under-Graduates, who kept tide beries-without the College, Wes !tempted. cj,t Api Cq t ,l 6 oß, of the gX,CIJA 9,1 J ER said, he hoped he would not 13e accused of a want of politenesiV) the two Uni ion= iehe resisted the inggestion midi; by the Hon. and Lea Gentjeowt. He bad heard of a - Conege cook and a College butler, but hi had never (A ara a Vbrietsity groom (a laugh ).- He se* 'no reason ' why Gentlentenerho winked to amuse themselves byArpieg hones, Should be exempted from this tax any more than the rest of his Majesty's taxi) Bets. Mr.7CURWEN wished to - knOw Whether the Cheneefiee of ~..-. . -------. ... the, rsof4setiofr had any„Aection t o, place English cottag e r, on tliesarnefointng as Scotch cortageri, that was. tb exethgethcie• who hadthree cbildra &OM the operetTolt of the tax P • .. '.' .- •, i . . The. citmic4,4qrt of dicyxcliEc t UElt said; be had no - Olifectson to aclide to the wish Of the Honourable hceijiber, but he feared the measure would lint be intdoetivo a afl 7tbe bsmefitodcipatesl by bin (Mr. Curwen). ~., N A gtpi.wziyi . tPaphnd, the , 1110 t Hon. Gentleman• for c olleen ilaiiiii uta . aiotlygied to assure in"' ihit It would I/Ford - lieu 1 teliel to a iwithisi of the ph6rha' rtakes.--(The Ifinwelbtvi I 41 104 .r d Igf I NViriffre4L.Awreceivett to-morrow. 7 ' o ersortbe Day Were &podeditaricttlielloinsi o4oirtlecrat ILlf-pf.st Eleven. . .