Star. — London, England, 1822-03-28 00:00:00

thought the primate might be intended generally to other effencet. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said it was very natural that the Honourable Gentlemen who had r•telested themselves in this subject, should each wish that the county to which he belonged should be first benefitted by the projected change. But he was of opinion that the course proposed to be taken by his Right Honourable Friend was that which would hest Iromote the success of the measure. Ile was of opinion that if the experiment were in the first in-. stance made on too large a scale, the effect would be worse than if it were tried on a scale nut too large, but of sufficient magnitude to enable them to form a correct judgment of the merits of the plan. Proofs had been given that his Right Honourable Friendi Was proceeding with a cautious, but perhaps not less accelerating step to alter the system in the manner Which had been recommended; but to do this with Safety and success, it was necessary that what was gone should be done gradually. When the addi tional Northern Circuit was determined on, in the First instance, the new plan was not extended to the whole of the district in which it was to take effect, but it was tried in two towns where the calendars had been larger than in any of the neighbouring places, and by degrees the advantages of the plan i;-ere- extended to others. A still greater degree of caution was necessary in this instance than that, and t good deal of nicety was to be observed in the ar rangement of the third Assizes. Till the plan had been in part tried, k was difficult to determine whe ther the third ought to take place under precisely the same circumstances as those by which it had been preceded. It would be better to take time to con sider how this could be arranged, than to send the measure forth without a well-digested idea of the precise manner in which it was to operate.— The county with which he (the Marquis of London ern i) was particularlyconnected, looked as anxiously forward to a participation in the benefits of this eiange as any county in England could do; and he hope) when it had been tried, if (mind to succeed, tha: it would be extended to them with the least pus %We .clay. Because it was proceeded with thus caazionsly, he hoped it would not be thought there was any reluctance to give it the fullest effect when this could be prudently done ; on the contrary, he trusted that it would be considered his Right Hon. Friend could not give a stronger pledge of his anxiety to do all that could be done, than was supplied by his beginning on a scale which would enable them to see how the greatest practical advantages could be derived from the measure. Eventually be hoped to see it brought into operation on the most compre hensive plan. There were cases where the numbers affected by it in a county would be few; but where the pressure would be as great on the individual as it could be in the most populous places. He wished, if it were p.issible, to frame the measure so that a great majority of the county into which it was introduced should benefit by it, and at present he did not know that there would be anything in the way of making the third jail delivery as general as the others. In the first instance, however, he repeated it, he was de cidedly of opinion that the preferable course would be to take the part recommended by his Right Hon. Friend.—The Petition was then brought up, read, and ordered to be printed. ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE IN WALES. Mr. WILLIAMS, seeing the President of the Board of Controul in his place, wished to ask if it were his intention to bring forward any measure•, founded on the Report on the present Administration of Justice in Wales, to improve Cie system at present anted upon? Mr. C. WYNN gave it as his opinion, that in order to bring forward any good measure on this subject, it must be looked at with a reference to the adminis tration of justice here; and, to prove effectual, it must be connected with a general measure for the improve ment of the administration of justice. Mr. WILLIAMS then gave notice, that shortly, after the Easter recess, and as soon as the professional Gentlemen who were Members of that House had re tnrued from the Circuit, unless it were taken up in another quarter, he would bring forward this ques tion in a Committee of the whole house, if permitted to do so. Great advantage would result to Wales from raising the character of its tribunals. He should, therefore, first submit to the House a set of Resolu tions, and if he succeeded in carrying them, he would then move for leave to found a Bill on them for the further improvement of the administration of justice in Wales. SIARREACE ACT. Dr. PHILLIMORE, in rising to move for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Marriage Act, ex pla:ned at some length the extent and magnitude of the evils which had grown up out of the present taw, and the nature of the remedy which he proposed to apply to those evils. To meet one objection which had formerly been opposed to his Bill, that it was l an innovation on the ancient law and constitution of the country, he took upon himself to sheer that the Marriage Act of 1753, whatever other title it mig:it have to respect (and he did not deny that it had some), had no claim to reverence on account of an tiquity, as the principle then adopted was in itself, as Mr. Justice Blackstone had called it, " an inno vation on the law and constitution of the country."-- This he found by describing the law, such as it had existed from the Reformation down to the twenty second of George the Second. lie eloquently set forth the evils which grew out of the present law, and quoted several cases in which marriages, after 20, 30, or 40 years of cohabitation, had been declared' null and void, and all their issue made illegitimate, on its being proved that one of the parties was under age at the time of the marriage. Cases, however, of still greater hardship had occurred with respect to natural children. Persons who had been educated as the legi timate offspring of their parents, and their children after them, had been deprived of property, long considered to be their's, on its being proved, after the lapse of many years, that they were illegitimate.— He had endeavoured to ascertain the average num ber of ca es of this sort which had been decided since 1810. In those eleven years, he found the number had been 30 in the Consistorial Court, and 20 in the Court of Arches. But these were not the whole of the cases which had occurred within that period, for it V4-4$ to be remembered that all the Consistorial Cour is in England were competent to decide on ques tions' which went to annul marriages. Nor was there 81:y ' mu ioi .!t which this. must stop. Centuries hence, marriages held to be good might, under the Marriage, - • - , • . Act, bektsuiletshOull humane principle was acted upon, marrying had ;!ggiJiiic six riage could ooktmknal*cd,. He clause out of the Marriage Act lily marriages under the circumstai scribed, and purposed- to substitt which would make it competent dims to impeach a marriage the parties. lie did not propose the power of nullifying their • months. He did not think sui possessed by one of the parties wished to provide that. parents , be enabled to impeach a marriage rity of the parties, but he did not to them to make such marriages null and:void for ever; and he wished to make all-marriages valid after, the passing of this. Bill, if they were riot inip,tigned six months. He wished the Bill to have a retrospec tive operation, that it might relieve the many hun dreds of persons who wished their marriages to be confirmed, that their children might be made legiti mate, and he contended that the principle of the men sure in this respect was perfectly analogous to that. of other Bills, which on various occasions had passed., Marriages by banns he wished to regulate: At pre sent that publicity was not given, by the publication of banns which the law contemplated, as they were frequently published in parishes where neither of the parties resided or were known. This had always ap peared to him a strange anomaly, and he now pro posed to correct it by compelling the parties to give eieir residences to the Clergyman a week before their publication—to make it imperative on him to verify them—and he also proposed to have the names of the parties affixed to the Church door. He strongly called upon the House to support the measure which he wished to introduce, and to correct the present Mar riage Act, which in many cases was proved to punish the innocent and protect the guilty. He then moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Marriage Acts—Leave was given to bring in the Bill. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that the House should resolve itself into a Committee of Supply,- . • Mr. HUME had-some questions to put on the sub ject of the Returtts winch had been laid on the table on Monday. k would be , in the sec-ollection of the House, that in the course of the, late reign 8,000,0001. had passed into the.possession of the Sovereign which had not been brought under the view of Govern ment. On the accession of his Ma sty, it was pro. aided by Act of Parliament that all sums received from the Colonies of Demerara, Gibraltar, and other places, should every year be regularly laid before the House. In a. paper laid on their table, signed Charles Arbuthnot, he found a sum marked as received from Demerara of 2,3701. As in the Estimates there was a vote on account for Demerara, he wished to ask whether the sum he had mentioned was considered applicable to general purposes, or whether it had been carried to the Privy Purse? Othe: sums appeared to have been received from the Bahamas, Dominica, and Prince Edward's Island. For each of these places a' vote was to be proposed, and therefore it was not un-' reasonable• to ask in what way the sums received from them were to be disposed of? Tor the year end ing in January 1822, there was a surplus Revenue of, 3,6551. In the last reign 124,0001. had passed into the hands of the Sovereign from this source, without, the knowledge of Parliament. MI6 he held to be unconstitutional. He now wished to know if the sur-' plus. Revenue of Gibraltar was to be applied to the general service of the nation ? Part of it was appro priated to the payment of the widows of deceased Officers. The amount thus employed was 1,5621. He hoped the remaining 2,1231. would be carried to the account of the nation. Under the head of Ad miralty Droits, there appeared a sum of 16'2,802/. He wished ro ask a similar question with respect to this. There was also a sum of 17,0001. respecting which he wished for some information. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, by Act of Parliament, every year the sums received from the Colonies were to be laid before that House, as also the services to which they were applied, under the proper heads. The accounts would be found to contain a great number of claims on the sums re ceived, which consequently could not be regarded as at the disposal of the Crown. From Demerara, there were many claims for Colonial services, and on the Droits of Admiralty there were many claims for the captors and others. When the balances available for the frown, or for the Treasury, could be ascertained, they would he laid before Parliament. Mr. HUME wished to know if they would be at the disposal of the Crown ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, they would be applied by the Crown, but in pursu ance of the advice of Ministers ; and if they were im properly disposed of, Ministers would be liable to bear the blame.—The House then resolved into a Committee. Mr. WARD declined going into detail on the pre sent occasion. He should content himself with put ting a Resolution into the hands of the,Chairman.— He then moved, for the Extraordinaries of the Ord nance Office, for 1822 (deducting 44,0001. for the pre sumed sale of old stores), 248,7441. Mr. HUME wished for information on various items, and especially on those for foreign affairs and' the current service. He noticed the extraordinary pay of the Engineer in Demerara, and the situation held by General Mann to report on the repairs wanted, and wished to know in what way this duty was performed by that individual? He then went, over the allowances of the Storekeeper: he had a ser vant, a horse, and many other accommodations pro-' vi,led for him. He complained that the Staff for Demerara and Berbice caused a charge of 11,1;3791. exclusive of the Storekeeper's pay. Bet that which he most wished to call the attention of the House to was the 10,0001. to be called for on account of the repairing of the sea-dam at Demerara. This he :hewed on the authority of General Mann, though ot, importance to the protection of the Ordnance and other establishments, was !till more important to pro-1 tect the town and the settlement from the encroach-' meats of the sea. Such being the case, he contended the colony ought to pay for the seapciam which ,al together, he saw, was to cost 23,0001. He was sur prised to find, from the proceedings of the Colonial Asset:l6lf, that it had not occurred to that body to take upon themselves any part of the expense. He .use. He saw . many things objectionable in our system. The Dutch Governor of. Surinam received, takinginto account the whole of his emoluments and allowances, about 124 per annum. Our Governor at Demerara received about 60001. per annum.— Heavy charges had ken thrown on the colony by the other situations kept up, aid he particularly noticed that of the boy Sulivan, who, as Secretary, had re- . ceived a large salary from the island while but a child—perhaps while he was in leading strings, and who, for aught he knew, had perhaps never yet seen the colony. lie thought it but justice to the People of England, when such large expenses for the colonies were thrown on them, to demand that an account should be given of the manner in which the sums received from those colonies were applied—(wear). If they had not sufficient funds to pay their own ezpenses, the sums wanted might to be taken from those offices which had been uselessly kept up.— He proposed to move that the 10,0001. for the sea dam should be taken away from that grant. Ile thought it the more necessary to propose this now, as, if they began to vote money for the repair of the sea-dam, the 10,000/. now called for would not be, considered sufficient, and the 13,030/..teqiiiied to finish it would, next he demanded. Under . the head of the Ordnance Department fur the lonian Islands, there was a charge of 3,063/. He contended that, when this Government undertook the protection of the Isles, there was a distinct understanding that this • country was to have nothing to do with their military expenses, unless a larger force than 3,000 men should be kept up. He should therefore move the reduction of this item. There were also the charges for the pow der-mills at Feversham and Waltham Abbey, to which he objected ; the former establishment was kept up at an expense of 10,0001. when there had not been an ounce of gunpowder manufactured there for the last six years. He must allow that reductions had been made in the civil department; and in that he would do Ministers the justice to say they had done tight. The Waltham Abbey Establishment cost 6,4001. a-year, and came under the same objection. He objected to the manufacturing of gunpowder when there was enough on hand to supply a 25 years war. These works were necessary at the breaking out of the war, when they were established, but no circum stances now in existence warranted the keeping them up. Gunpowder could. be supplied to G o vernment in any quantity by manufacturers, who would be competitors for contracts. These establishments ooght to be laid down, at least until the breaking out of a war. There was another charge to which he would allude, a sum of :1,2001. for cuirasses for the Horse Guards. Here was another instance where public competition ought to have been resorted to. He understood that these cuirasses might have been furnished to the Government for 1,2001. He con tended, that if everything of this kind were done by [ public and open contract, great savings would be effected. He should move the reduction of the sum of 13,0001. being the charges for the Colony of De► merara and the lonian Islands. There was a charge for Barbadoes, which he should leave to his Hon. Friend near him, who had always given it proper attention. Mr. WILMOT said, that as the objection had been raked to the item for the expenses of the dam of De ' merara, he felt it necessary to repeat the information which he had given to the lion. Member upon a for mer occasion, and with which he was sure the House would be quite satisfied. It was not denied that this work was a great public service. It was agreed, that 'it was not only of use to the Ordnance Department in the Colony, but mainly so to the town ; and it was, therefore, the o2inion of Government that it should bear a proportion of the expense. This had been com municated to the Colony, and they were in the daily expectation of receiving an answer. Under these cir cumstances, the grant was only to be considered as an item on account, which would be repaid by the Colony. With regard to what the Hon. Member had said upon the subject of places in Demerara, he seemed to forget that a law had passed, which prevented per sons from holding places in that Colony who were not upon the spot. The only instance where the duties of an office was done by deputy, had been attended with a reduction of salary. Considering the incidental ex penses to which the Governor was liable, the allow ance made to him was certainly not too much.— But these circumstances could not in any way affect the vote objected to by the Honourable Member. The sum would be unquestionably repaid, and he could therefore see no just reason for refusing it.— With respect to the lonian Islands, that was a subject which, it was no fault of his, had not been examined by the House. lle wholly denied the construction which the Hon. Member gave to the Treaty, namely, that it put the whole expenses of the Government upon the inhabitants. He pledged himself, when the subject came before the House, to prove, that if there was anything in the Treaty to that effect, it was a mere implication by words, and contrary to its whole spirit. It was only contemplated that the Islands should pay in proportion to their competency. Mr. G. BENNET wished to know whether the House were to understand that the Colony of Deme rara wad to be compelled to repay the sum now de manded? If he could have that distinctly stated he [ should make no further opposition : if not, he should decide with his Hon. Friend. With regard to the [ lonian Islands, he believed they would never have the competency to pay their expenditure, while they were administered under the present system. Mr. WILMQT said, the only pledge that could be given was, that the government considered the Co lony bound to pay the suns of 10,00(11. which the [ Committee were now called on to vote. • Colonel I)AVIES observed, there was another item of 3,0001. for an Inspector of Militia, whi‘h he con ceived to be wholly unnecessary. , op , vershrn a and Waltham Abbey, was one of the greaten conseqnenc.p., It. was most imi)ortant to ; haVe the means of restoring.and drying damaged gunpowder,. • but. Waltham Abbey did , . not afford them. Fever sham was the place where alone gunpowder could be restored ; and that, establishnient was also exceed ingly desirable from-she facility of its communiga lion with. the arsenals. of Chatham, Woolwich,. and,. Deptford. He was convinced that it would be an act of the worst policy to detroy these manufacto ries, although he allowed they Might be considerably reduced, and would be so. • Si; W. CONGREVE said that the stock of gun powder now on baud was 300,000 barrels, which could be kept in a perfect state as long as these' mills were worked. If sold, they would only pro duce twenty shillings per barrel; whereas if a war should break out, and Government were compelled to buy by public contract, they would have to pay at the rate of 61. IW. Thus, at the commencement of war, the country would be obliged to disbune a million and a half, and the difference between the two courses would be 1,300.0001. The expense of keeping the gun;.owder would only be equal to the purchase of 130 years, rather a"longer e erie(' than he supposed the HonouVable Member expected us to re main at peace. Even if they calculated the accumu lation of the expense at compound interest, it would be eleven years before it amounted to the 1,300,0001. He thou&lit there could be no question of the policy of retaining thiase manufactories. Mr. HUME explained, and after a few conversa tional obserVations, his amendment was Vk ithdrawn. Mr. CREEVEY said that the Government had, in the ca•.e of annerara, admitted the .principle that Colonies should tontribute to their own military ervi Fences. What wouid be said, then, in the case of Bar badoes, whe're there was a fund of 4,0001. a-year created for that purpose, and yet that Lland did not pay for repairing its own fortifications? It - mead of bring applied to its proper and intended object, this fund was given to. the pensioners of the conistry. He was really ashamed to press this subject so often, but he was sure that he should succeed at last even in that degraded assembly !—(Cries of " Order !") He might be called to order—he would die for it, but it was a degraded assembly while it supported such a vote—(The lion. Member seas called to Order by the Chairman, and from many parts of the House). — He concluded by moving the reduction of the sum for the forffic.ttions in the Island of Barbadoes. Mr. WILMOT contended, that the Government had not called upon the Colony of Demerara to bear a share in Its mili tary expenses, therefore there had been no recognition of such a principle as that whirls formed the basis of the lion. 3lember's argument. Ile thought the. Hon. Gentleman would do well to be more perfect in his geography before he discussed such topics, and not talk of the iroular situation of Demerara. With regird to the 4i per cent. duties granted by the House of Assembly at Barbadoes, they were given to the Crownja retcrn for certain concessions and privileges at that time conferred upon the Island. This was distinctly stated in the Color.Ll .Oct of 1663, and immediately after that Act passed the du:i. s were levied, but not applied to the repair of fortification; which were paid for by a direct tax. In the. Acts of other islands they would find the same principles regulating the grants; and these analo gies materially strengthened the conclusion that this fund was a remuneration given to the Crown for certain privileges granted out of the loyal Prerogative, and which no other power could confer. Thor: fore it W. 19, that even immediately afterwards it was not claimed for the sorvice of the Island. Mr. CR LEVEY ridiculed the idea of arguing from analogy upon an Act of Parliament. They had nothing to do with other Acts, when they had the specific one before them. The only de fence of the case was the practice of the last fifty years, and that was the pensioners title —fifty years of stealing and swindling. lie then read the Acts, and contended that the fund ought to be appropriated to the fortification of the Island. Mr. WILMOT said, the Hop. Gentle.nan had entirely mis represented the argument he bad used, by stating, with that de licacy and rehnement of expression so peculiarly his own, that he defended the apprubilion of the fund in question upon the prac tice of fifty years of stealing and swindling. Ile distinctly depre. cated supporting his case by the practice of past time, when he said that immediately after the passing of the Act the expenses of fortifications were paid by a direct tax. Mr. BRIGHT expressed his astonishment at hearing the Co lonics spoken of, as they had been lately, as if they were not w o-th preserving. He had always considered them as being amongst the greatest supports of our system. lie should vote for the sum proposed for their support. Mr. BERNAL, said, the object of hiS Hon. Friend was, not to refuse the sums necessary to, support the Island of Bar'oadoes, but to see th a those sums were taken from a proper source.— He contended that the Four and a Half per Cont. Fund ought to be applied to the expenses of the island. Mr. BRIGHT understood the amendment to propose taking of 4,0001. front the suns to be granted for the expenses of the Island. That was the only result to which it could lead. Mr. CREEVEY explained. Mr. MARRYATT asked how the Honourable Member meant to provide that, if the rate should be reduced by the sent in question, the persens holding pensions from the fund should give them up? lie could not support it unless he sew proof that there was sonic abuse of the patent. Mr. P. MOORE supported the amendment. Mr. WILLIAMS said it was the duty of the House to peti. don the Crown (as was done in the reign of Qleen Anne), to repair the works rd Barbadoes. That Island could not com plain, whilst the public works were kept in repair. It was of no importance to them what course the King took. The King was bound to repair the works front the' Four aild a Half per Cent. duties, and if that Fund was approptiated by Parliament to other services, Parliament would be under the ohagation of keeping up the repairs.—The Committee then divided, For the Amendment • - - :9 Against it - - - SI Majority - - —42 On the question for granting 96,629/. 13s. to defray the ex penses of the Office of Ordnance in Ireland, Mr. HUME said there had. been considerable reductions in the Ordnance expenses in Ireland, and under the present state of that country he should not oppose the grant. He expressed a hope that his Majesty's Ministers would snake similar rcdue dons next year.—The elstinsate was then voted. The sum of 45,552 i. 1.51. hid. was moved to defray the charges, allowances, and emoluments, in the nature of Soperannuations of Officers, and also fur Widows' Pensions, in the year Mr. HUME said it was.painfuL ro oppose this vote; hut he wished to know why nimy of the indistiduals had barn put upon the Superannuation list? Oire individual received half-pay for three years' service. Ile alluded to James Bachelor, who was the son of one of the freemen of Queeuborough. It would be in the recollection of the House that a former discussion took plies upon the introduction of sixty-seven persons, store-keepers ,g 4 1,1 c u g g s , to h a iivay, contrary to' the prieci,de laid down by s• • • - , .. . . .. ' ••; , - - • .., . . . . ~- ,- . - . •0 • . ~ - • .. . - ' - ' • - • . --t #. '' 4 •Vir . - ' ~ . • • • I, l ' '' '' • - . .. , • . •; ~ - ... _ . 1 , - . . , ' , • • ''' - 0. ; . . Vid. . In I upon, and e l! parties this country,.as i c' y e c f sip/ or seventy i • f , op. lilecreta,rrfot • sr six months.. tb,::::sr 7e .. f sand p ti ou l 4ll . •tivel e ' l, ' oar r at ii 4t hd4 . ite. d di : ', - . Aar ' . . -. . . cos .. k . t0 .?7 , h e l u d o . He wished to.striko. contended dear --might to - pity the. 306111111 teiriphedi heiltossid:ordytw'ealseir tho.defence hir•Hre.. Act which went to nul l which thablimesoonsio, co be ailed upore titlsnle. tuntrAtier. Plierid .:he4 . fnisit, Utti the itein 00 . ircumstances he had de- He knew. that ahasttartkocseh hold been • - ttAlcosiii, s s io wm, h i: wpilit ,.. a,k i oni„ .. mewtori substitute for it a elapse for a diffeemstrpoirisso• lie was aware that * fest..Airetteeiu mbeivcalleArea t whi l baj: di, v :tent for parents or guar- been sent•es et eueterfor as paper which had merely• became thew • was a diferesste ef opiniess : during the minority of issued, bet heist w. roboosseenwby a pot of it sheltie ?lon, :the cnrislrugz i o , ..of a treaty ? Iti the Ordnalit,' ose to give tosiodividuals not be taken. toieneaCtler•wants of the colony on. as plortment.toi., ikantl'et4er Coltuties; it' wore. allow r own marriages. after si; emergency lihethilt-presset. He however complained boa complaised that .the Eitotokosspe n ' uch a power ought to he of the improvident way in• which Demerara, in corn- allot...each. The faet.was, that the iltotekeepoo•Ob' .. ties to a marriage. He mon with the other: eolonier i ,..wris taxed, and thought Demerara had to travel seventy miles in tlie.clischuW- ins and guardians should. Government had acted,nnerisely i n , , ing up the, of.his:duty,. At Dominica also', the StOtlifeePee NO' arriage during the s okso. island of Jaya, which had always paid its own ex- to gq thirty miles every mouth to the difkient stores, • - I lid nut pram, to enable penses, to retain Demerara . and Plerbiee at a great ex- The question of keeping ep theestabliehroents at Fe- i es null and void for ever : Dense. He saw -mane chines ohleetionahle in our versham and Waltham Abbo.was one of t h e gmitea r