Star. — London, England, 1814-07-21 00:00:00

of what he had said, had ahewn beyond cu. t .I.fictiun that he was mane of tip. iynorant. E ,r 1 S i AN HOPE required something more spe cific than a bare assertion. ‘k. it % • PRINCESS CHARLOTTE or WALES. The Earl of LAUDERDALE said—l have I waited in the hope of seeing an illustrious Duke in hit place, who yesterday gave notice of a motion upon 'A /post important and delicate subject, for Fihlay next I lament that I have been disappointed, because it . was my intention to have asked whether he did not think it proper that the House s nmld he provided with sone information relative to the motion which is to be binoelit forward ? lam well aw ire that it is comrient to any her to summon the House for the more solemn consideration of any sohj .ct, and I should bd sorry to argue that it is not competent to any p. er to submit a motion witimat giving tie House on re than a general idea of its subject. If, however, I had had the good fortune to have seen that illustri ous Duke in his place this evening, I should have appealed to him whether he did not feel that in this i..stance there existed as imperious a necessity of giving the House some intelligence as to the nature o his proposition, as upon any occasion that ever oc curred in the history of Parliament ? It is true that I Led undrisiaod that his• Royal Highness meant to acqu tint a Noble Earl (Livetpool) . with the form of his motion previous to the discussion: I know that such a courtesy prevails upon important political , qu-stions, but I do submit that upon matters of the nature now referred to, such information given to one individual only out of 'the whole House w o uld Dot be satisfactory.—(Hear, hear).—Fur myself, I confess I am more at a less to conjecture what the nature and form of the motion of Ft iday can be than I ever was before upon any subject during the whole course of my experience, that had been made only a matter of hint in the course of conversation. Under these circumstances it is impossiole to avoid regret ting severely that I do not see the Illustrious Duke in his place, more especially as to-morrow is the only day that intervenes before his motion is to be discuss */ If to-morrow I should not have the good for tune to see his Royal Highness here (and even then the intelligence would be very late), we must remain wholly in darkness and ignorance upon a question that requires the greatest and most solemn delibera tion. I have, therefore, now thotrAht it necessary to say thus much, in order that by some means or other it may reach the ear of the Illustrh us Duke, and that be may attend in his place to morrow to give the re quired information, as to the nature and object of his motion, or if not, to state some reason to the House why he thinks fit to with.hold it. At the present moment, I believe, there is not a single man in the .House, or in the country, who has the faintest idea of the nature of the proposition of the illustrious Duke. - . The Earl of ROSSLYN observe.% that he• had this instant received a note from the' Duke 11 Suss x, expressing his regret, that in consequence of indis: position, he -was not atile to bring forward his in. tended motion regarding the Princess Ch . el , Ye of .Wales, Friday: his R ,yal Highness; therefore, .expresst d a wish th it it abooli be positioned until Tuesday. All I cein say foe. Myself (cOn'iatit d his Lordship) is, that I have no doubt that on t:.e ga metal principle if courtesy, his • Royal 14 ghness wi be ready to make any communication cons sent with •the delicate nature of the subject. Such ieieren d ri ie, Itowever, can only. be given as a matter (1 . courtesy,- Rua not of right. For one, I must, maintain the • principle to it ally Noble L rd may give a general tt nice upon any subject, without specifying it all the form of worth in winch it. will be couched. . The Earl of LAUDERDALE defied any Nob lt Lord to state truly tliat a single word that he had ut-: ieretly as iacon . iadiction to the principle alluded to ;by the N ible Earl ( Rosslyn). • What he (Lord Lauderdale) had said was, n , :t only that a Peer 01 Parliament had a right to summon the House, but to make any motion, if he so pleased, without sum: trims or previews i•itOrmation, The general prac tice and courtesy of the House was, however, other wise ; and on a question like that which was soon to be introduced, the Illusttious Duke would surely deem it right to give some previous informatlon. As the principle, he repeated that he had not uttered a word inconsistent with the principle laid down by Isis Noble Friend. L'ird HOLLAND was convinced, that his N Isle .Friend (L iuderdale), was fully sensible of the truth and justice of all that had been said by the Noble . Earl ; upon the right of a Peer of Parliament, there could scarcely be two opinions. His Noble Friend. had professed to pot it, ad verrrundiam, but it was the o .dest way of doing so, when the illustrious indivi dual was absent. Ali Peers of Parliament were upon :an equality, and it w..s but fair, when it was thus put, ad vcrerundiane, that the person to whom it was put, shoo' I, at least, be present, if the subject were not more properly settled in private. He must siy, tha; • wh t had been now said, had referred to a 114 tice ot motion given by him (Lord Holland), and explana.ion had been •re quited is has absence, the tB ct would have been rather to induce him to win . hold any information, standing upon his right as a Peer of Parlian.ent. lttr tad of LAUDER - DALE contended, that Notne Friend (Loud H-li..mt), had sunk or kepi in th- back ground a great part if what'he had frst stied. He had stated his reason fi r mentioning the .:nhject in the absence eat the iltustriMes Duke .o be, that there was o ly ene intervening day before the mot on was to he tiroui,ht Caward, and if, to morrow, h.s R...y 1 Higlintss:should not haVe attend. ed io his pixie; 1.0 appeal could have been made,to b t 43 upon the question. The obiect of his L rdship wa-. to produce the attendance of the illeistriods! Duke, to give intormation *finials Lirdship, iii his conscience, Was *1 epinioii, ins hoed more callrd t it di 4n upon any fin.mdr occasion that had ever offered itseit.—( Hear, bear). Lard MELVILLE begged to knoiv tiehatb,day. the Illustrious Duke had mimed f. r his tr.iition,t • The Earl 01 ROSSLYN obvirved, that the corn. 'manic lion he' had noticed, was iant• directly lium the iglu t isms Duke, .who. waa Kited W he i4iutispokJ....: Ile ch . ! not feel himself authorised to' nine tivel) in day, btu Tuesday Viallsittlikniftl . . Th.. Bailor LAUVERTIO L LE 'has th e na` coartie *Maid. that '4 111Y140111411 bf bated - tot morrow, when further information was obtained re gmling the illness of the Duke of Sussex. Earl STAN HOPE hoped that any day rather than Monday would he selected, since his favourite mo• tion on a subject of the greatest consequence was fixed for that evening. He did not think the Illus trious Duke was bound to state the nature of his mo. tion—it wa► not necessary. He understood that some motion was to be brought forward, but what was his motion, of what it would be he would not tell. He wanted no Ember explanation upon the subject than that which had been already given. . The Earl of ROSSLYN could not finally name any day ; he could only repeat that the note to which he had referred mentioned Tuesday. Loi d SIDMOUTH inquired whether the motion would be brought on on Friday ? The Earl of RGSSLYN answered, that it would certainly not, and the matter dropped. The Northern Light-house Bill passed through a Committee, with an Amendment moved by Lord Viscount Melville, leaving out the clause objected to yesterday.— , -Report.to-morrow. The Deeds Attestation Bill also passed through a Committee. I'he Irish Insolvent Debtors' Amendment Bill passed through a Committee, and was reported. • The Hous:: went into a Committee on the Irish Endowed Schools B• 11. An objection being made to one of the clauses ley Lord Redesd,rle, the Chairman left the Chair, and the Committee was ordered to sit 'again to-morrow. I'he Bills brought up from the Commons were read a first iime. With respect to the Clergy Residence Bid, *the Earl of Shaftesbury gave notice of its being intended to move tla to :ond reading of it on Friday. Adjourned till to-mui row (this day.) HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. COLLETT took the oath► and his sear for Grampound. Mr. KiNcrroN preset ted an accost:it of the Assets of the k.4st India Company at the different Presidencies lu ludia, and other Papers.—Ordeied to lie on the table. hie. WALLACE moved fur an account of ;he East India Com pany's Sales for the year ettillig fsl ay i, 1814.—Ordered A Message from the Lords biouglit down Dundas'i Divorce Bill, which was read a first time, and requested a copy of the evi dcitce on the subject of East-India Shipplng, which was ordered to be communicated to their Lordsitips. Sir S. RONDLLY presented a t'etition front the Debtors in Hereford Gaul, praying for relief. • The All OKNEY-GEN ER A L obtained leave to bring in a Big for facilitating the apprehension and bringing to trial of of fenders who bad e3eaptd trout one part of the Cuited K.ngdotn to ano:ber. •I't:e Bill was brought in, read a first time, sad ordered to be read a second time to morrow. ..... he Report of the Committee on the Marquis of Wellington's Estate A was agreed to, and itistructions to tue same effect or dered to he delivered to the Comuuttee on the Duke of Welting ton's Estate 13:11. _ . si he Wecninisttr Improit ment Bill went through a Commit tee.—'l'he Report to-morrow. On the motion of the CIIANCILLOIL of the EICIMICILR, the Rep, re of the Committee respecting the City Gaol was ordered to be sent to the Lords, in pursuance of the.r Lordsh.ps . .message of yesterday. the Report of the Committee on Scotch Spirits was agreed to, and a mil ordered to be brought in accordingly. I Le Keports of the Committees on the Scotch University Pa pt r Bill, and the Isle of Mao Bill, were severally agreed to, and tie 13.1 is ordered to be read a third time tomorrow. !'Le Report of the 1 harms Yol!ee was agreed to, and leave A ive i to bring m a bill ucordlogly. .c Report of the ft.sh Desuikery Bill was agreed to, and the Bi,lordeteti to be read a third time to-mius tr. litlitDh.T i prksented s Petition from a person crated Mary Gelnvile, ofire-sure , who complained that 'she oast ..Len rtnivie ed of selling Fiends gloves iu a large penalty, d vdti‘ed her to ruin, on the false evidence of a person wh_au .se ..ad i/ClUft arres:ed for debt.— lo he on the Tabl:. • U I DJIIIII.I EN. Mr. FORBES rose to withdraw his notice respect ing sunie pt. vision 15ir the Midshipmen of the Navy woo were thrown quire out of employ by the late peace. He obsetved, that the situation of these per ions was peculiarly hard, as they were without any i tsi,vision, and he feared would not be able to find occupation in the merchants' service, on account of the multitude of persons who would be dismissed from the transport service. He withdrew his notice, because he had hopes that some measures on the part of the Admiralty would render any motion on the subject unnecessary. Mr. CROKER said, he rejoiced t'aat the notice was withdrawn, as the motion would have excited hopes which it would not be possible to realize. At the termination of so long and arduous a contest, the persons in all branches of the Navy had a right to expect that their services should be considered by those who had directed them in time of war. The claims of all ranks were actually under considers-' tion; but he could net hold out any other hopes than chat of the half-pay, which had been mentioned. in the last Navy Estimates. He was persuaded that the House would not disapprove of any thing that was given as a reward for past, or a retainer for fu ture services. But the consideration of the subject was attended with great difEcult:y, and no part of it with more than that which related to. the class of Mid,hit•men, which was composed of individuals of the most dis&milar ranks and expectations. He begged to be understood, that he could give no hopes of ally p•irticular measure on the ; but he Was colivithed that the Admiralty would be most anxious to take all proper steps. • I Mr. TIERNEY, said, he was anxious lest. any• ta'se impression should go abroad that the cause lot this c•ass i.t men. was abandoned by the •Hansek I;)- ..ause when it. was seen what arrangements theAd tuiraity would make, it w atld be in the passer .ol ' any Member, if he-disapproved of the, arrangenSirits, mike any motion'on the subject. '1 he Notice was then withdrawn. • SLAYS TRAM Petitions against the Slave Trade were presented ' from many p tits of the kingdom, among or hers one by Lord A. HAMILTON, from Glasgow, signed by 14,000 pet-sans, also one from the African 'Missio nary Society ; tsi.elye from differentparts of the Islafid by 'Mr. %V; hemolytic& Mr. W I LISEkFORCE, on presenting these Poi-. tions, observed on the atroc lies whiCh thE'itlea.an the French to conquer St. DOmingo must, it petsistcd !in, give rise so. He stated, that he knew trout illt most certain sources, from iniiicepted iettetS (tom, 'St. Domingo, a tact which seAnedlormerly to have neon dotikeesl; namely, that it was usual at the '.&ole des ideiou in that cutintai, .to train The blotd hounds, • 11 . 0 Weie to hunt Of natives, by forming•fs riisg wiih alined spieler% and tiveltio or thirteen blacks in the The fared 11'11%4 of Ow Is t • This Jibantetul exhibit eon usually took :place tin 'eada:itt. •The PeLjpstpi were a rdeeed Inge on the Table. • Mr W...661.0ii giwiktetthieteinsikiiiions to Ike . • same effect from Norwich, and other parts of Norfolk. Ordered to lie on the Table. Mr. P. MOORE suggested, that as there would be snch.an unanimous sense on the subject of the Slave: Trade in the country, that there were Petitions not only from every place, but from almost every indivi. dual, it might be proper to go further than the Reso lutions which had been CATI ied. A. pledge had been given by an Honourable Gentleman to bring forward some measure for the gradual emancipat►on of the Slaves in our Colonies ; but they had since heard no more en the subject. The Honourable Gentleman was prevented from proceeding by the Speaker, there being no question before the House. Mr. WILBERFORCE presented a Petition from the inhabitants of Westminster, against the Slave Trade. Mr.. P. MOORE wished to ask the Honourable Gentleman whether he had any plan in contempla tion for the entire oblivion of shivery all over the world ? The question had slept since the year 1807. Might not some regulation be adopted to prevent the clandestine importation of Slaves into the West In dies,.by emceeing that every Black who set his foot not Only in England, but in any part of the British dominions, should instantly become free ? Mr. WILBERFORCE replied, that the object of the frietids of the• Abolition of the Slave Trade had been in the first place to step all supplies of Slaves from AfriCa c and then they hoped that the amelio ration of the state of the Slaves in the West Indies would follow as a m:stter of course. The object of the Petition he' had just presented, and of so many other Petitions of the same kind, was to she* the unanimous feeling of the country against this inhu man traffic. Sir HENRY MONTGOMERY mentioned the practice, of which he had been a witness in the East lmiies, of bringing Slaves ashore from the French settlement at Pondicherry, and afterwards re-shipping them. He hoped that the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) would turn h:s attention to the subject. Lord CASTLEREAGH signified his assent. Mr. STEPHEN presented a Petition from Gisbo rough against the Slave Trade. IRISH SEDITIOUS MEETINGS. 'On the further proceedings on the third reading of the Irish Seditious Meetings. Bill, Sir S. ROMILLY said, nothing had occurred to -Alter his opinion as to this violent measure, brought forward at so late a period of the Session, And on such imperfect inhumation. He was aware, th it nothing he could say would induce the House to reject a mea sure even of this nature, which wentto deprive the Irish of some of the dearest privilegbs of the Consti tution. It was to be sent to the Lords too at a time when it was known that House had declared it was too late to consider a measure respecting the Bo rough of Helstone; and surely it was then too late to consider;a measure taking away their birth right from smile of our fello*-subjeets.—He did not deny, that there were great evils existing in Ire land; in consequence of which the House, to do its duty, ought to remain sitting until it had found the proper remedy for them. Mr. PEEL repeated the reasons which he had originally stated, for the introduction of dr_ measure, ii;. the Oath on which six convictions took place at the hit Westmeath Assizes, that the parties would be true to Bohaparte ; 'and the OA in the same coun ty, thit the parties would destroy all informers, all vases, and plant the tree of liberty in the heart of Ireland. He had aho lately received a memorial, Signed by a number of Magistrates, and others, of the county of Tipperary, complaining of , the frequency et murders in that district. _ _ Mr. J P. GRANT agreed with Sir S. Romilly as to the oppressive nature of this measure ; and he con tended. that Parliament should itselfmake enquiry, and not pass an Act of:this kind on the reports of Magistrates, homiever respectable they Might be.— There was never a more serious measure submitted to Parliament ; for it went t 9 .ifeprive the people of. the mist valuable pail of the. British Censiitution, and that too in a part of the country where it was cif the utmost importance to convince the people* that the. British Constitution was as capable 61 controlling and punishing the turbulent,. as it was of dispensing ad. vantages and blessings to the peaceful and industri ous. It might be necessary :o keep tfie people, in some parts of Ireland, in their houses from sun-set to sunrise; but he had heard no grounds laid -for taking away the trial by jury. Before he could agree to this measure, he must be informed that there was either something anomalous and unusual in the present state of Ireland; or that the British Constitution had be come incompetent to protect its Magistrate's, or to repress disturbances in that part of the country.' He wished to know what new protection was afforded to witnesses by this Bill ? and as to the difficulty of pro tecting juries, he had heard no instance in which an Irish jury had deserted its duty. He hoped, that early in the next session, Parliament would go anxiously to enquire into the whole of the internal state and regu lation-of Ireland. Mr. GRENFELL supported the measure on the ground that all the Irish Gentlemen considered it -necessary to restore tranquillity to Ireland. Sir S. RomILLy anti Mr. J. P. GRANT mutually ezPl 4 ineil.y. 5 .-• • - Mr. - Bilitaki thought srme measure was neces sary for the satiety of Ireland ; but he thought that the 'Right 'Honourable' Gentleman should 10.. k little further into the subject. It seemed to him to be tiLe hostile feeling of-the people ot Ireland against our Government that was the root of the evil; and ' he 'did not believe thir s t .it was likely to be muds mended by . letting loose the military on the peopie of that country, either in one way or another. How 4.ver, as thi House seemed to be driven to a neces sity for s.nrie measure at present, he should vote tot the Bill. Mr.. WILBER FORCE said the discontent of Ire land was iinuoubtedry a disease of centuries stand ing. It was an• essential duty ot the House so turn their attention to the circumstances ot Ireland. I WAS very.natural in tha that on the eves Irish Government to suppiist throw ut .bonaitarte, the expi. ssi ,, is 0. dissatisfaction in Ireland Thight also exi e'i n e changes hut mete was, it would seem, - a lint of g• • west, curry- li new eputning at th e . sunor di nat i on of the law in tins, co ipdividudl .from lil to the the h a i s g t. hg enloy t :C tih u 1 wuseit the law; but Inland seemed to be in a vet y different &audition. He was dis a p pointed that lite) !tad 111 ,, heod sot thing f r om t h e 1 5944 ot &SIRC4IIOII UtIS year.--H As an Englishman," said Mr. Wilberforce, 1 I owe reparation to Ireland, for the wrongs centuries."—(hear, hear!) " We have, it is true, of law years, manifested a sort of parental affection for that country ; but I cannot but remember the period when it was governed by principles of a very different nature. The inhabitants of Ireland seem really, as some nations were said to be, incapable of enjoying liberty, to be at present, incapable of ea joying the blessings of the British Constitution." Mr. HU asT said, there could be no doubt, that something was necessary to be done for Ireland; hut, he could not think it was to be done by pulling down that pillar of the Constitution—the Trial by Jury. The ATTORNEY.GENERAL said, this Bill was only to allow persons, under certain clrcum. stances indicative of a dispo.ition to break the peace, to be dealt with, before the Magistrates, as an ea. tended species of vagrants. Mr. kluusT explained, as did the A TTOIINEY-GS• NEILA L. _ Mr. P. MOORE thought the documents. on w!iiell this Bill was said to be founded, ought to have been r.ferred to a Committee, before a measure was adopt ed to alter the whole Constitution of Ireland. Mr. BUTTERWORTH supported the Bill. The amendments were then agreed to. Mr. J. P. GRANT moved, that the word " one" year should be inserted instead of three years, the proposed duration of the Bill. .. The amendment was negatived without a division; and the Bill was read a third time, and passed. • VOTS of cuagti t . On the motion for going into a Committee on..,thr Vote of Credit Bill, Mr. WHITBREAD had expected the Right Ho. nourable Gentleman would have stated some grounds for 3 Vote of Credit of the size which he undetstoost was tr be proposed. Except the List year of the war the sum was to be greater than - that t.f any other; Although there was no necessity tor any m..ney, except, unfor,unatelyour war with America called fora He wished to know if any appointment had been made for the Br itish Commissioners to meet those of Ame. r ca. It would he satisfactory to hear that sucn an ppoiniment had been made, as it appeared those Gentlemen had been forgot en by our • Government. It Appeared that 10,000 Brit lab iroops were st.t tioced i t the low countries ; and that they were to be cr m. ni.nded by the Hered.tiry Prince of Orange. Wily such bud yof troops was obe c , inued in that pot of the 'world ; or why that niustri us p rson was to comma's' them, he knew not. Wi h leg itti to Ge no t he hoped, alter it had been rescued ti 0m tyranny by us, that we would nor &pi ive it again of its inde pendence, by allowing it to rttoro to a state of vassa. Lige. • l'o return to America—she tr id heard I storms proclamations /it Sir A. - ..:(rehraire, of eting treed. m •ncl settlements iu our canoes to ui , se Ainericatt staves who chose, under such terra, to desert Ll. Lit country. As he considered this a measu:e likely to recoil on ourselves, and at all evews as it was by no means a legiumatts weapon of w..', he hoped those proclamrtions would be disclaimed by his M ijesty'a Government. ..... The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the actual amoun: of the SU be oi.teu would be three millions, and linJoubt..eslty . greater reduc tion might have been m de had we b en in a state of peace ; but this sum was necessary on aceou.it of the war with America, which was one that m ght proba. bly call for a great exertion of our resoi;r, es. It was more in the province of his NAle Friend (being bet ter acquainted with general questions of policy ihatt he was) to answer these questions. But he could say, what was matter of general notoriety, that them was still a very considerable portion of Europe to be ar. ranged•at the General ConweNs ; and w.til that was done he was sure the House and the country would not wish 'so important a frontier as that of our 014 .Al4l the Dutch to be unprovided for ; but would rather wish it left under British protection. As to the illustrious Commander • of those troops, he was fhttelltor that station by his education among us, and above all by his having studied the art of war under our illustrious and revered Coninsander. . If the Ho. nourable Gentlemih Wished far • a more particular Statement of the reasons - - for taking a Vote of Credit for to large a sum, he would fina. it answered in :he consideration of our subsidiary arrangements with our Allies, Austria, Russia, and Prussia ; and hit wits sure the House would !eel the necessity of arming the Government with the p iwer and means net's. sary • to meet arty unforeseen circumstances or de. Mantis which might arise ; and 'lse was persuaded the House would see, that, by doing so, they were adopting the step most likay' to seture the new order of things in Europe. Mr. I IE ItNEY only objectel to the Vote of Cre. 'dit on account of its name. If this sum was meets. sass fir fultill.ng Treaties and paying subsidies, why not take it tor subsidies ? It it was necessary for the expences of an 41 ill , why not take it under the head Army Ex7racedinaries ? He particularly objected to taking a Vote of credit on the grounds of the pen ding uegociations ; he din no, .pprove of send lig a Minister to Cungiess aimed wilt a large sum of mitiey. lu his opinion Lus WA* only a tirund-about way Lit taking . a bunt of money tor duuoidies and Army La 401 tibial lie expressed .iis leapt II • hat, dos log 01% recess, the Goventaient would turn Its Aavidsou, to the forming a Peace establi nent, And th,t that Establistimelit would be one rigid ceconorn i as posoluie. Nothing else .cou:d euatne the c ituitrs to recova itself. He was tell aware drat, with the ut most ceconomy, our Nag! Ls,..eblishittent would not be less 11l in acits,Odi4oo:). Lord CAb CLERE:IGH contended, that it was I,:taiAote to taice the Vote nu u suer its usual ,stie, v o e ur Cr, slit. He trusted the House would not ,;,.111C Vogl of the P.:ace now ttati when it ...4% n. • t think it wi old Math.' but s te m to JICh never e u i a t W. t , ,e iw. p h r et u i iiolaiictiter:d4„ri.::ytavtna::utpclseacceten,, fact. u a e c : ae l o.na. e state of •ii the Conti nent tat on in stating, that, previous to the peace tax I. g , a treat) had beet% tnt , red into bitween Aualia, rtussia. And Pruosia, by which it w s se,t. st, wheat fotcc should coninn ly ..e kept Li „aid 11141 tin y WAS t'l turnosh a pro ,,Jot on in money groan to het failure in :lumbers uf flit 0. s his treaty, by its terms, had :A...! time to run ; bnu IheirlU. e N Ouid o to a cert tin exteitt, pre. Vtlit AU anitueiliate redocitta 01 our estaolisl i ns e nt .tint s Wi gerleet peace. With rtokeCt to the