Star. — London, England, 1831-08-16 00:00:00

(:.); ; .i ,~ , tl ~I 1 F. 7 1, ; (it"i ERTA T. PARLIAM ENT. HOURS OF LOttDS, Avows 15. The Earl of Setarreeitraw, in the absence of the Lord Chancellor. took his seat open the Woolsack as Deputy Speaker. shortly before Ave o'clock. The Bill for the repeal of the dudes on coal, cotton ' tiles. slates, &e, and several private bills , were brought up by Mr. R. Gordon and others, from the House of Ceramons. The LORD CUAIICILLOR entered at five o'clock, and took his seat upon the Woolsack. TUN wrw pima RILL. Thc Duke of W PLLINGTON presented two petitions. both from pieces in Gloucester, in favour of the New Beer Bill.— Todd on t) , e table. The Ri.hop of LONDON at the came time presented a nt.!tinn, •Igned by 9ti clergymen of the Criversity of Ox ford, minting on , the immoral effects of the new beer bill upt:m the labouring eleesett. and praying that it might be opeetlity repealed. The Right Reverend Prelate said that A ron , rooolt-qion which he had received from the Potteries of S•t-ffordshire. described the bill to have had the moot pt r !emus effects upon the working classes there. The bane ful enrsequences which it had entailed upon the labouring poor, were 'itch, that the clergyman and inhabitants of one of .he car!shtts in the Potteries had. at a public meeting, re. •Ived unanimously to petithm Parliament, recommending that the prices of licences to sell beer ought to be raised ; that rn licence should be granted to any one who did not produce the most satitaketory testimonials m to his moral conduct. and that in all Pew beer shops, the game of skittles should be prohibited.— Laid on the table. TIIE LABOURING POOR. . - Lord KENTON introduced a bill for improving the con dition of agricultural labourers. Head a lint time. and ordered to be printcd. THE TITHE SYSTEM. Lord WY NFORD paid that he had also a bill to intro. duce to their lordships, the ohirst of which was to improve egriculture. His hill was hau l for the purpose of extend ing the tithe commutation system to those parishes which would not be affected by the measure which had been brought forward a short time since by a right rev. prelnte epitaph,. the Archbishop of Canterbury. Tne noble lord en reed into a !arid explanatioo of the laws relating to tithes, and the manner in which the construction of the existing 91tA , s!SS upon the subjects had been narrowed by Courts of law. A principal object of his bill was to encourage the general cultivation of land, but more particularly by *rade hto.handey, by limiting the tithe to that at which It now stood, and without reference to any improve ments that might he made after the passing of the Act; so that the tithe should not keep pace with those irtirmvements. This measure, he observed, would greatly facilitate the r.llotting small plots of land to the labouring poor for culti , vatiim by spade husbandry.which be was convinced, from the experiments he had tried upon his own comparatively small property, would go a greater lenFth in ameliorating the con. I m of the agricultural poor than any other means the could he tlevind. The noble lord having Introduced the bill, moved that it be read a finis time. • lined TEYN H A NI said that the noble and learned lord's ill should have his moat cordial support, and would, he trusted, meet with the general approval of their lordships : for of all the measures which had been introduced to their nodes, this, in his judgment, was the most capable of effect ' ing that which they all desired, an amelioration of the condi. • non of the labouring poor. The bill was then read a first time, but no day was fixed for the second reading. • lIIPkOVENVNT IV ?HZ LAWS. Lord TENTRIIDEN introduced several hills for amend. in. the laws, both In this country and in Ireland, but from the very low tune of voice to which the noble and learned I • 10-d addressed the house, it was impossible to ascertain their ti Its. Lord rLUNKETT approved of the object which the the noble and learned lord had in view, and assured • the house that he would give to the measure his most earneat attention. The bill% were then severally read a first time. ME CHI? WCH EITILDI/80 ACT AMENDMENT TILL. On the motion of the Btshop of LONDON, the Church ullaing Act Amehdment DM was read a third time, and paged. THE TILT area ACT AMENTNEZET TILL Lord MELBOURNE moved the second reading of the New Beer Act Amendment Bill, and in doing so, observed ' that it was intended to insert a clause in it empowering police • officers to enter /sew beer shops after hours, without belt g armed with the authnrity of a warrant from a magistrate to jurify them in doing so. The Duke of WELLINGTON referred to the complain., which were made against the new beer act in all parts of the country, and suggested to the noble lord whether It would not be advisable to Insert In the bill a clause, compelling new beer shops to shut up at four o'clock In e afternoon during the winter, and six in the summer. The LORD CHANCELLOR observed that be felt the weight of the suggestion of the noble duke; considerable thflieulty might arise from adopting that suggestion. The limitation of hours would give a preference to other houses, srd would in fact he undoing that which had but just been done. The Act had not as yet had a fair trial, and they ought therefore to consider well before they took a step that would operate as a repeal of it. • Lord T ENTE R DEN said that it was highly expedient that there should he some limitation to the hours of keep ing open. If 0.5 were to fix seven in wmter, and eight in summer, the evil wnuid. he thought be removed. Lord MELBOURNE observed that it was nut the hours, but the reduction in the price of beer, which had caused the complaints. By an existing Act, beer shops were obliged to be closed at ten o'clock at night. The Bishop of LONDON, after mentioning an instance where a young man had sustained considerable moral injury from frequeming at late hours a new bee: shop, observed that that places, by bring kept open no Sundays, ewfully increased immorality upon that day. It was his intention to present a petition, praying that they might be closed on the Lord's Div. Lod WY NFORD suggested the introduction of a clause, empowering police officers and constables to enter. not only in cases of riot and disturbance, but during the hours of their bring kept open. order the sanctionof a magistrate's warrant, •.:d afterwards without any such sanction. Lord \I ELBOUR NE °hewed that the clause in the hill empowered the olticers to enter of their own accord. Lord TEN TElt DEN doubted that the clause as it stood conferred any such power. lam d 31 ELBOU NNE said that if such were the ease, he v•tild have no possible objection to amend the clauses so as in meet rite suggt. titian of the noble and learned I.lnl (Wyn. d) The noble lord then alluded to what had fallen frm the right rev. prelate (the Bishop of London), and asked ' what limitation of the hours be would wish to be made with regard to Sundays. The Bi•hup of LONDON said that he should like new beer shops to be shut up all da) on Sundays, except so tar as would be actually necessary fur supplying the poor with the drink they might require at their meals. Keeping pub lic-houses open on the Sabbath Day was intended as an ac commodation to travellers, but there could be no such access .icy with respect to new beer shops. After some further observations front Lord kIRL BOU RN E in reply, the bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Thursday. Lord TENTER DEN moved for a return of the number of persons confined in the King's Bench, the Fleet, al d Whirecrosssatreet prisons for debt, the amount of the debts for which they were detained, and the length of time they remained in prison ; together with the number of petitions bled, and tt• persons discharged under the lusedvent Act, during the year MO.—Ordered. The Fad pf SH A FTESBURY presented a petition from • pariah in Kent, against the beer bill. The house then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. HUME presented a petition from the tile makers of London, praying that the duty on tiles might be taken off, in , he same way as it had been taken off slates. After a few observations front Mr. Hamm', Mr. Comerritas, Mr. S. RICE, the petit on was brought up, read, and laid on the table. Mr. HU3I It presented a petition from Uxbridge, tom s laining of the inland tax upon coals. The hon. member said that he had also a petition from Cupar, Perth, Leslie, sod Edinburgh, complaining of the delay of the Reform in its passage through the house. There were some Inning expressions in these petitions, and he felt it to be his duty so alter them. He had - made these alterations with the approbation of some of the petitioners, but not alt. Four of dime petitions attributed motives to hon. members In opposing the bill In question. He should not present tier let. Mr. ROBINSON rose to order. The SPEAKER said that the boo. member (Mr. HOMO had drawn the cant line, and bad given himself trouble upon a point that it would be well If other huo. members would o bser ve. With respect to masurm, he would just say that any petition is wideb erasures were made with the, consent of the pasties, that stir it was i groper pedttim. He, however, doubted math the propriety of members taking upon themselves to make endures pedtions. Mr. HUME having stated tbs contents of aU the pd. dens, declined Winging up any bat thiu from Edinburgh. Mr. ROBINSON alluded to the inconvenience at mem. hers stating the contents of objectionable petitions, well knowing that these petitions eonld no! be received. After an observation from Mr. Hunt, the petition was brought up and read. Mr. HUME prevent d a petition from two Individuals, preying for an alteration in the coach teem, and that the trade may be left open. The hon. member alto presented a petition Hem the coal-measure makers, praying for rt. muneration in ease the London coal bill be brought into operation. The hon. member presented another petition from certain persons meeting at the Risunda in the Black. friars.road, complaining of the tax noon knowledge. The petition was one of great publih importaoce, and deserted the marked attention of that House. Owing to the six acts the rich only were enabled to obtain knowledge. What was the result of the present restrictive laws? SiII that persons, in despite of the laws, send. Owls the most offensive publi. cations, as they deprecated the possession of property. Mr. HUNT committed In the prayer of the petition. but did not think th;:t the publication in question went further than this—that they deprecated franchise arising out of pro. Mr. O'CONNELL supported the prayer of the petitlont and said that the hon. member for Middlesex was quite righ in slaying that the publication alluded to would attack pro perty, and the mischief was, that persons of a right mind could not meet the views of the propagating of the publica tions in question, and undeceive the public. Ile thought that the laws adverted to by the petitioners, which were passed for the purpose of putting down Mr. Cobbett, ought to be repealed. Colonel TORE ENS was also In favour of the repeal of the laws in questioe. Mr. HUNT denied, that the laws in question were meant solely to put down Mr. stbhttt ; there were other works published of the same nature by Mr. Wooller and a Mr. bherwln, and that Mr. Cobbetr, instead of rising the price of his pamphlet, left the country. Mr. O'CONNELL, in support of his statement, adverted' to the debates upon the Six Acts. After an observation from Mr. HUNT, the petition was bought up, read, and ordered to lie on the table. Mr. HUM E presented a petition from Balton, praying for the liberation of the Rev. Robert Taylor, and complaining of the yowers exercised by the Society for the Suppression of Vice, in putting a stop to the freedom a discussion re specting religion. The majority of the members of this Society (said Mr. Hume) were ministers of the Church, 1 end were missionaries, whose purpose was, in order to ad vance the Christian religion, to ridicule that of the heathens. Were those persons, then, to attack a man who only Fee tired a similar course towards the Christian religion ? Upon the words of hireling informers, who noted the words used by Mr. Taylor at • private meeting, he was found guilty, and incarcerated in a gaol, where he is treated like a common felon, and with most tyrannical oppression, both mentally and corporally. If Mr. Taylor made use of his powers to ridiule religion in public It would be very different, but he only did so at a private asgembly, where no one was asked to go but these wishing to hear opinions hoes tile to the Christian religion. This unfortunate gentlemen I was, in point of fact, *loomed to perpetual imprisonment, for. at the end o f two years, he was not to express any differ ence of opinion from those who opposed his views of religion. His (Mr. Hume's) complaint was against the system, not against individuals. If the object of this system was to crush infidelity, he could assure the base that it would have a contrary .effect. Mr. J. WOOD supported the prayer of the petition, and complained of the powers vested in the Association for the Suppression of Vice. He thought that a prosecution for religion was downright tyranny. Mr. R. TREVOR said that Mr. Taylor had not been found guilty of a mere difference of opinion ; but because he had taken every means to publish his offensive views. It was said that Mr. Taylor, as a gentleman and a man of education, had been hardly treated. lie thought that Mr. Taylor 's being a man of education, was an additional argument against him, end he therefore deserved severe treatment. Captain GORDON (Member for Dundalk) said that the Society for the Suppression of Vice had reared a bar rier against tiv tide of blasphemy constantly pouring out in this country. The public was under deep obligations to this Society. He denied that Missionaries were obliged to ridicule the religion of others to advance their own* (Mr. Hume: u They do.") He also contended that the place where Mr. Taylor held forth was a public place. where any one could enter for a shilling. He complained of the charac•ers of persons being attacked by the honour. able Member for Middlesex. it was not a hired spy, but a gentleman named Stevens, who gave evidence against Mr. Taylor. Mr. O'CONNELL complained that, although the In. quisideo of Spain had been done away with, yet the hon. member foe Dundalk, and the hon. member for Durham (Mr. EL Trevor), were anxious to revive it in the British dominions. He contended that it was a blasphemous inter ference to oppose power to principle. He also contended that -he interference of the Society for the Suppression of Vice wasnot only blasphemous, but unconsdnstionaL (Hear.) . . Mr. DEN ISON thought that prosecutions for any offence against religion ought to be brought forward by his bon. friend the Attorney-GeneraL The hon. member then said that Mr. Taylor was only subject to the rules of the prison; if these rules were too severe, let them be altered. Mt. BRISCOE was favourable to a freedom of religious opinion, and therefore supported that part of the prayer of the petition. But he contended that the exhibition of Mr. Taylor at the Rotunda was repugnant to the feelings of Christianity. and this it was that caused the sentence in question to be passed upon him. lie certainly was of opinion that the treatment of Mr. Taylor was too severe, but still it was imposible, under the existing rules of the gaol, that he could be treated otherwise. A Hon. Member said that the persecution never put down opinion ; and what was the offence complained of ? It was an t•ffence against the Almighty, but it would appear it was not an offence against the Archbishop of Canterbury; and for this offence a gentleman was to be punished with two years' imprisonment. Mr. HUNT said that the Society for the Suppression of Vice was a foul conspiracy. He contended that the magis. rates of surrey had surpassed the law, by making Mr. Taylor's imprisonment solitary. No such sentence bad been passed upon Mr. Taylor by the court. Mr. BRISCOE denied that Mr. Taylor was in close con. &lenient by the wish of the Surrey magistrates, but at his own wish. Captain GORDON denied that he wished to introduce the Irgaisition into this country. He was a friend to the liberty of conscience. Auer an observation from Mr. Denison, Mr. O'Connell, and Mr. Hunt, Mr. H UME, in reply, said, that he would call the Bench of Magistrates of Surrey the Inquisitor -Generals' Bench of England. (Hear, hear.) The conversation here dropped. Mr. J. BROWN said, that, seeing the right honourable gentleman (Mr. Stanley) in his place, he wished to ask if he had received any information respecting the outrages that had taken 1-Lice in Galway, which appeared in a par tic ular news paper. His accounts from Galway corroborated these state. mentor. It was necessary that some vigorous measures should be adopted ; the time had arrived when those measures ought to be adopted. It these disturbances continued in Galway, they would go into Mayo. Mr. STANLEY was sure tkat the questions were put in a friendly manner. He regretted to say that there were die. tries in the county of Galway that were in a considerably disturbed state. There must however, be a stron g e r case than that now made out, be fore the Government adopted unusually strong measures. (H ear .) Th e G overnment h ad sent soldkre, and appointed stipendiary Magistrates, and every thing possible was done to pat down the disturbances in Galway. He wield not be expected to give any opinion upon the conduct of the Galway petition. The petition was then read, and ordered to lie on the table. Upon the motion that the order of the day respecting the Lord Lieutenants' (Ireland) bill be read, Lord ALTHORP, in reply to Mr. Robinson said that be would bring on ate Wine Duties' WU on Monday next. Mr. LEFROY asked if is was the intention of the bon. member, the chairman of tne Dublin Election Committee, (Mr. R. Gordon) to adopt any measures respecting the mat. ten that came out in the evidence upon that committers ? Mr. GORDON said he certainly intended to bring for ward tesointions on the s u bj ect on Tuesday next. Captain GORDON asked if the government intended to any measures respecting the speakers at th e late Wu ;:ole areeting ? bIr.STA N LEY said that the government bad not thought t expedient to lake any notice of the subject. Tait Loll° LlTlPTfigeNete (tetLAND) PILL. Open the motion that the House go into Committee upon this Bill, • Mr. O'CONNELL rose to rnove that the bill be aim mltted that day six months. He costeuded that the bib in question would throw too much power into the hands of whatever administration was in power. For upwards of 20 yams, while Lord Manners was Clancy Hoe of Ireland, smelly a Catholic was appointed to the magistracy. During the Chancellorship of Sir A. Hart, no permit was to the magistracy of a particular party bias. A ble majority of the magistracy were partisans, except in the count of Marquis W of w Waterford, tordbe and f thatim a was minor. The boaou attributable to the rab pret sent baronet ' the member for Waterford (Sir R. Digestive) had petitioned twice for the commission of the sod was refused. He thought th e office of depnty l ieu t en ant .e would be used for election p ur p ose s. He would take the counties throes hour Ireland; and with the exception of Bilden, there would rot be found materials to carry this bill tete erect He might be told that the King's Bench had influence over the magistracy, but he would say that it was a mockery. )ven in this country, within the last ten years, there were thirty applications for criminsl Informations, but not one of them was granted; and when such a circumstance took place in Rnglard, what was to be expected in Ireland ? (Hear, hear, hear) He considered that there was • great portion of despotism between the msgistracy and the poor in this country, and it was much greater in Ireland, where the magistrates exulted in the convictions. (Hew.) Ceder the New Jury Bill, an additional power would be granted to the magistrates. who would be authorized to select juries, and he thought it injudicious to take the authority from the Lord Chancellor, end transfer it to the Lord Lieu tenant. He believed in his heart that the l iii would increase party feeling and heart-burnings. He had no political am. bitten. but to stet the good of his country. He moved that the bill be read that day six months. Mr. :TANTEY said that he gave the hon. and learned Member rent credit for the very temperate observations he made In opposition to the Bill. He assured the House that if he bell, red that the Bill would tend to increase party feeling in Ir land, be would be the last man who would sown it. He believed the Bill was one that the Government of Ireland long required, to add weight to, its authority, and to increase responsibility. It was a measure that was rendered necessary to link responsible authority to the Government. The principle of the Bid worked well in this country, and he was at a Inas to know why it would not prove equally beneficial in Ireland. He admitted that there were many instances in the Magistracy of Ire land where gross abuse had taken place ; but this Bill would enable the Government to place a proper and tespon. sible sutLority over the magistrates in counties. He did not intend to remove any responsibility from the Lord Chancellor, but to appoint • proper officer, to whom the Lord Chancellor could refer as to the character of the candidate, and not to be Obliged to have recourse to private information, which was the bane of Ireland. He thought that the hon. and learned member had passed a severe censure upon the counties, when he stated that there would be a difficulty in obtaining re spectable persons to fill the office of Lord Lieutenant. He believed there would be found persons of great respectability to discharge the office. He believed that it would tend to In duce men of respectability to reside In Ireland. The object of the bill was to create a responsible officer, and one on whom the Lord Chancellor could depend upon for informa tion. He trusted that the bill would answer all the beneficial purposes anticipated from it. Mr. JEPHSON objected to the bill, as it was likely to give undue power in elections, and lead to partlmmihip. He, however, would give the bill a fair triaL Mr. RUTHVEN said that he did not think the bill cal. cul tted to prove any great advantage to the country. He thought thepowerto be assigned to the Lord Lieutenant was too great. He was afraid that the Lord Lieutenant would be invested with too much influence ; yet, be believed that no great injury could arise from the transfer of the power from governors of counties. He trusted that Government would adopt means to prevent a repetition of those offences that took place through the yeomanry, and place them under regulations that would check their power and opportunities to inflict injury upon the people. Mr. D. BRON NE called the hen. member to order; they were discussing • measure of great importance to Ire land, and he thought it unwise to discuss the question of the yeanonry. Air. ItUTHVEN continued; and said that he was not out of order. He had a right to refer to the state of the y.o. Enemy. He trusted that those persons who would be ap pointed under thq,• bill would keep themselves free from corrupt *cling and wises. Mr. D. BROWNI2 said that he would support the bill, but he did not look upon it as one of unmixed good. (Hear, bear.) He thought the advantages would exceed the dis advantages. He approved of the bill, bemuse it was an effort to assimilate the laws, and would had to the abolition of the office of Lord Lieutenant of Ireland. Mr. BLAKENEYWeIievei that the bill would be at tended with advantages to Ireland. Any system would be better than the present, which was pregnant with evil He trusted that government would be able to find respectable persons to discharge the important duties of Lord Lieute nants. He regretted eh state, that in the county of Carlow persons bad been appointed to the magistracy who were unfit tor the situation. He would support the bidL Mr. J. GRATTAN said, that if the right honourable gentleman (Mr. Stanley) considered that the Iced Lieute nants could preserve the peace of the counties, be was very much mistaken, because the magistrates were thepersons who were accountable for the quiet and peace of the counties. Mr. S. RICE said that every person recommended to the Committee on the State of Ireland the appointment of Lords Lieutenants in Ireland. This bill would render great and important service to that country. It would prevent the Lord Chancellor from being obliged to depend upon private information, and create a responsible °them He knew of instances of persons being recommended to the Lord Chan cellor, and when they were appointed, the gentleman who bad recommended them disavowed the parties. He con sidered that the bill would do away a bad system, and would substitute a sound and constitutional one, that would render great service to the country. The assimilation of the laws and practice of the two countries was one of its best com mendatioos. The recommendations of Committees would be taken up by Government and carried into effect. Dlr. LEADER looked upon the bill as one pregnant with mischief. He believed that the measure would enable the thirty-two Lord Lieutet.ants to monopolise the patronage of the country, which was already distributed among the ma gistracy of Ireland. Those measures would fall wide of the mark, unlem ciie guvernment would ameliorate the condition of the measure. Mr. CR A3l PTO N said that no single power was given by the bill to the lord lieutenants that was not possessed by the governornors cf counties at present. There was no responsi ble person at present, and that evil would be remedied by this bill, in the appointment of lord lieutenants. I: would be of great advamage to Ireland, that gentlemen of high rank should be anointed to those stations. It was mt essential that the person appointed should be a nobkman. No such think was comemplateekbp.she bill. Mr. LEFROY. Jun. advocated the measure. Lord AlallOßP thought the bill would prove con ducive to ti e peace and welfare of Ireland. He believed that the ussintils;lon of the Imre between the two rano tries would prove highly beneficiaL The Lord Lieu. tenants would not have the power to appoint, but to re commend persons to till the office of magistrates. It was so in this country, and the practice worked well. One of the great evils in Ireland was, the want of effect of public opinion. This bill would create a responsible power, amenable to the laws and public opinion. He thought that the of would operate as an encouragement to persons to reside on their estates, to qualify them to fill those "Ices. He trusted that the measure would prove ser viceable to Ireland. The government had no other motive in recommending it. Sir M. W. RIDLEY had no doubt that this measure would contribute to encourage the residence of men of pro. petty in Irel..nd, and he was satisfied that it would be at tended with beneficial effects. Colonel O'Gft ADY approved of the measure geasrally, bat there were some of its details which he whited to see altered trom their present state. Mr. PAGET, seeing the number of. elergram Who were in the commission of the peace id this pan of the country, could nut but regret that she appointment of magistrates was placed in different hands front those in which they were now pie Mr. ced. CALLAGHAN supported the bill. One good diet of it would be, that the recommendations to the office al justice of the peace would be taken out of inespousible hands, and placed in persons who would be responsible for the cons eq uences of recommending unlit persons. Mr. HUNT was astonished to see that the first act which the government was to peas foe Ireland was ate which was a nuisance in England. He was 'edified that nine.teotbe of the people were dissatisfied with the mode in which aegis. notes were appointed. As was said by the member fee Kerry, it was absurd, it was a gross farce, to apply to the Irish Court of giap's uds for redrew for oppression from a usegistrma. fee there is no losessee of redreva having bees by dna won. As a reform was to take place fn C likaldsn. it was to be bayed that a reform would aim take plias la the maglstraey. 1124 ELL replied. He would not divkle the boom b dds stay of the bill. but he should on the third reedit& The Neese then went into a Committee. Mr. SHBIL objected to that part of the Bill which vested the Lord Lieutenant of the county with the right of ap pointing the militia officers. Mr. S. NICE conceived that it would be absurd if the Lord Lieutenant, who was to be entrusted with the ap pointment of Magistrates, was set fit to be entrusted with the appointment of militia dime. After some observations bp Mr. (kamptee, Lord Ebring. ton Mr. 1). Browne, Lea XiDm, Mr. Sinclair, Ur. Onittas. and Mr. Lefroy, Mr. O'CONNELL renewed his 'Weeder es the bill in general. In doing so, he eomplalud of a penes awed Leary. who had been found guilty at the Chemoksise which sat to try the Doneraik compirators, having bees areesperted, contrary to the recommendation of the Judge. The several clauses of the hill were then agreed to, the Chairman reported progress, and the house resumed. Mr. STAID LEY having moved the recommitment of the Beard of Works (Leland) Bill. Mr. HUME objected to the appointment of Commission. yrs with salaries, as proposed in the bill, when we had so many Commissioners already under pay who could perform the business. S. RICE denied that the propored commissioner would cause any additional expense to the country ; of that be would satisfy his hon. friend when the Irish estimates came before the house. Mr. S. DAWSON supported the bill. Losd ALTHORP admitted that a grant would be more beneficial to Ireland = but in the present state of the country, the Government could not ask for such a grant. Mr. LEADER entered into a statement of the condition of Ireland, observing that, unless employment was procured for the poor, It was in vain to expect tranquillity in that country. Sir J. BURKE was saislitd that, after a few years, when the effects of the sum now advanced shall be known, the government will be more liberal in its advances. Mr. S. RICE thonght that it was idle to discuss that re specting which they were all agreed. The house then resolved itself into a committee. SIT. A. DAWSON was satisfied that England could not lay out her money to more advantage than in improving Ire land, and relieving that country from the consequences of absenteeism. Mr. O'CONNELL said, that the distress prevailing in Connaught had not been in the slightest degree exaggerated. He, however, did not in principle agree in the propriety of vesting a sum of 600,0001. in Government, to lend to whom they pleased ; neither did he think such a system of political economy would be productive of any good. For his part, instead of a loan, he would ask for a gent, if be thought he could get one. He, however, wished to facilitate the bill. Mr. STANLEY felt convinced, that the money would be advantageously laid out in Ireland; but, however opposed he was to lending money in this way, yet he could not see how it could have been possible to come down to ask foe so large a sum. It was true that a great portion of this money would be lent to Grand Juries ; but he hoped that the alteration about to take place in the Grand Jury Laws would obviate all difficulty or apprehensionof misapplication. Mr. ROBINSON wished to see the pressure caused by absenteeism removed, by making their property subject to the support of the Irish poor. lie did not wish to offer any opposition to the bill, but be still protested against each grants on principle. M,r. & RICE thought the conversation irregular.. Mr. BLAB EN EY with some warmth defended the right of Inland to assistance, and said that there were in that country 400,0001. lying idle in the county treasuries. He objected to English Members standing up in that house to protest against measures interded for the relief of Ireland. Mr. ROBINSON, in explanation, said that his object and that of the hon. gentleman's was the same. He more than the hon. member did not wish Ireland to depend upon mere charity. He wished that some general mamma for her benefit should be adopted. Mr. HUME said that the hon. gentleman would, be sup reed, wish to see Ireland on the same footing with Scotland. That was all that was wished by those who were opposed in principle to such grants as these. He objected to the grant, although he would have no objection to have 1,000,0001. or even a larger sum granted by way of loan to Ireland. upon the same tams that public money was granted either to this country, or to Scotland, which would prevent the possibility of jobbing or partiality. Mr. S. RICE observed that the arguments of the hon. member was wholly inapplicable, and that the was proposed to pass through the Treasury, because the - sury was under the supervision of that house. Mr. R. GORDON fully concurred in all that had fallen from the hon. member for Middelesex. Mr. A. DAWSON was willing that Ireland should be treated like Scotland. One million had been granted for the Caledonian canal, and usefully employed. He wish to have a similar grant made for Inland Navigation in Ireland. Mr. HUNK said that the hon. member was not correct. He (Mr. Hume) would be at the pains to asertain the sums granted to Scotland, and the sums wasted in Ireland by job bing. Sir G. CLERK said that, knowing the Caledosiau eanal, he was bound to declare that it was a most lawless expense. The grant was made for the employment of Highlanders, but the hon. member for Louth would perha ps be surprised to bear that the %thole work w a s com ted, not by High leaden, but by the hon. member for uth's own country. men. (Laughter.) He objected to the grant, on the ground that it would be applied to ensure patronage. Air. WA RBURTON was also opposed to the grant. Mr. GRATTAN supported It, observing that such grants were substitutes for poor laws in Ireland. They were the only means of providing the Irish poor with employment. Mr. WYSE supported the bill, but he thought it did not go far enough. It would not, however, affect the introduc tion of poor laws into Ireland. Mr. SADLER said if it was intended by this NJ to pre vent the introduction of poor laws into Ireland, it would be futile. After a few words from Mr. Sam and Mr. COVIITZNAT, The Bill was then read paragraph by paragraph. Mr. HUME complained that the bill created a Board in Ireland which was unnecessary. Mr. STANLEY said that the Board in question would have a very great increase of duty under this Bill. After a conversation seven of the clauses were agreed to. The CHantatair then repotted progress, and obtained *aye to sit again. Upon the motion of Lord ALTHORP, the Scotch and rich Reform Bills were postpseed until Friday sennight. The other Orders of the Dq were that disposed s 4 and the House adjourned at Two cielack. FOREIGN INTALLIGENCE. SPIRIT OF THE i — A l ra — AN JOURNALS. L'Avenir, Paris Paper, says—They have just banged in England a child of fourteen years of age—guilty of having assassinated another child of nine years of age. In Ireland, they have just con demned to death a man and his wife for assassina tion, upon the sole deposition of their grand-daugh ter, aged nine years ! It appears to us from these facts, that there are other reforms required in England besides that of the Parliament. The Stenographe says, this evening, that the despatches arrived at the Ministry of Foreign Af fairs confirm the note of the Moniteur, and it adds that dispositions are taken for the return of our troops. That would be by far too hasty ; the Bel gians will bays the right to laugh at our expedition. Sines the King of Holland has rendered our expe dition necessary, it is necessary that it should bear its fruits ; it ii necessary that it should resolve in favour of the Belgians all the territorial questions still undecided; that it should assure them the pos session of Limbourg, of Zealand, Flanders, and of Luxembourg, without other indemnity than the cannon shots which it would require to attain that object. Le Journal des Debats says that the main argu ment of those who maintain that war is inevitable, rests on the argument that liberty and despotism are incompatible with each other, and citaest,lisne. fore be co-existent. This is logically true, but practically false. The opposite principles. if th ey fought with 100,000 men on each side for a ee nary together, would n o t ann ihi late each other. The opposition and c on t rast o f the two principlee are inherent in the creati on o f t h e World, and t attempt to destroy despotism b y un i versal liher : or liberty by univereal de s p ot i sm, would be attack the creation itself. An o ld s t ory affords - an illu nation of this : a d og h a d b een gifted be % animal fairy with the power o f catc hi ng every - which he pursued ; a h are h a d b een gifted by an° ther fairy equally powe r f u l w i t h the privileg e (:( never being caught. On e d ay t h e g i fted dog be,..ait to chase the gifted hare. Which privilege would predominate ? After run n i ng a l ong time they gee tired, and agreed to go qui e tly along side be s id e. Every story has its moral. Liberty and despotism have long been chasing each other, but neither has caught its prey. What, then, must they do now ) Go side by side, like the dog and the hare, and. bear patiently with each other, since the destinies of the world so ordain it. • La Gazette de France, after arguing that neithe r of the two parties of the mouve,nent and resistance can restore the prosperity of the country, but that there is a course which, if adopted, would secure universal happiness, says, " The situation of France may be clearly illustrated by an image. Travellers find themselves in a different route, but if they ad. trance they must cross a marsh merely to arriv e st a precipice. We meat stop, say some ; look at this marsh and precipice. But, say the others, if we stop we perish from hunger, and have no where to lay our head. Look on your right, say s a t hi rd, there is another road which l ea d s to a friendly town." La Quotidienne says, that as Lond on i s the centre and principle of action of the French Cabi net, it is not in the speeches of M. Perier, or M. niers, but in the conversations which take place in the English House of Commons, that the e s . planation and develope men t o f the policy of the Palais Royal must be sought for. It will there be sun, that every point of national honour and dig. nity has been sacrificed by France to England, and that the latter, in return, only repays the ea crifice by the most bitter contempt. Le National, in alluding to the remark made by the Minister of Foreign . Affairs, that Napoleon, at the head of three hundred thonsand men, dared not provoke a continental war, in order to re-establish Poland, argues that the cue is misrepresented.— The policy of Napoleon was to increase and fortify, at the expense of Prussia and Austria, the king. dome of Westphalia ' Bavaria, Wi r temb erg , and Saxony, which formed in the centre of Germany the powerful Confederation of the Rhine. For this purpose he had deprived both Austria and Prussia of a great deal of territory on their western frontiers; but as it was his policy to destroy these powers en tirely, he could not at the same time despoil them of their eastern possessions. The more, therefore, be took from them to strengthen the kingdom of Italy and the Confederation of the Rhine, the more he was compelled to leave them on the other side. Had he, for instance, reunited Dannick and the mouths of the Vistula with the Grand Duchy of Warsaw, he would have reduced Prussia to the rank of a third-rate power, and could hum depended on its supp or t in his designs against Russia ; and if he had deprived Austria of Gallia', he must have abandoned his arehdaal bride. It was not, therefore, want of you that prevented Nap o l eon i nte rfering in behal f of Poland. The Congress of Vienna might, and ought to have restored the kingdom of Poland ; but at that Congress, Austria, Prussia, and Russia, dividing their booty like a party of drunken soldiers, aggrandised themselves at the expense of France and Poland. This should now be repaired. "We do not," it continues, " ask for the gigantic Poland which Napoleon intended to create after his Russian campaign, had it bees successful ; but, as a measure both of justice and of policy, we call for the re-establishment of Po land as it existed at the time of the partition in 1772. The existence of such a nation, comprising Lithuania, Volbynia, Gallicia, and the Duchy of Posen is the only thing which can put an end to the tendency of Prussia and Austria to a prepon derance in the West." PARIS, A UG. 13.—The friends of the minister are to-day " beside themselves—quite beside them selves ;" for they announce " that the King of Holland has given orders to the Prince of Orange to retire from Belgium." I ask, what then ? Will Belgium have Limbourg, Luxembourg, Man nicht, Venloo, and the left hank of the Scheldt? We must wait and see. The declaration which the Prussian Cabinet has just made to the Minister of France residing Berlin, merits the attention of diplomatists. II Will fix the indecision of the people ; Prussia there bas declared that in the question between Poland and Russia she is not neuter—that she has never been, that the Polish agents to foreigners had alone endeavoured to establish that fact; that Prussia desires that the Russians should triumph; that she employs all the means in her power to contribute to it ; that she believes herself entirely in the right to pus to the Russian army ammunition of all kinds, provisions, &c. and that the situation an which she is found is inactivity ; bet 'sever neutrality ; that she has considered the Poles but as subjects revolted against their sovereign, a sovereign, the good and faithful ally of the King of Prussia; that if Poland reconquen her independence, she will retake the Grand Duchy of Posen, Them and Dantsick ; besides that it will be a Gollollllllll4llt in which the sovereignty of the people will pciavail,—a principle dangerous for all the neighbouring governments ; that in fact, it is possible that in tan years there will be no longer in Europe a single Government which will not be based upon the sovereignty of the people ; but that it is not for kings to facilitate this change. Such is the manner which that government acts which is reputed so moderate, so wise, so forewarned. FRANCS, As our Readers would not thank us for filling our columns with debates in the French Chambers, we shall to-day prefer to give them a commentary en the speech of Sebastiani, by the spirited Paris Coerespeadent of the Morning Chronicle. Tbe Maw et Bliestipe Madre (Y. Horace Sebastian) ddineesi bisasebr et a speech set badly conceived sr as amok lag the eine he bad to stadia's; and the system be bal opium'. He declared that the Revolution bad set bees nabs agalast the treaties et 1816, although he called 'bole maths 6osseus. if these imam, wad the water, had been tan by us, we should rile have had age. ma war; bat, by adepthe this, we meletelosd peso. Tide maimidides et pose was, Oa the °plebe at Y. Sow' I *douse wast iga jessilleatioe* beta& eulogy ea the whole system et dm pin of 'knew. He arose isessol f •1 1 ' .. l i r 1 i. t • 1. .11 . A l , 1 . I li I 1 I . 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