Star. — London, England, 1810-11-30 00:00:00

. . • th e . Right Honbetrable eventlemstrWoommen- • • re me . . MatesiesUieoste*ft raticonlmeato tb.. tise tlitibit - lb male it imprttileat now . The light li e c messed, however, that, - nutwithitnding viate these tliffitoltiet No. They contenlea them. HonOurabie. Gentleman took here a short' view of the, , 7T1).il 1011, and having also heard the deposition telees withholdittg out fallationrexpectatinni of their possible disadvanteges'which might attend the ap. m a jesn's Physicians, he still could not be 'removal. Ever since the examination of the last 'poin'tment'ef a Regency . ; among which he mention. t „ h .lieve until this moment,that in th e et- 'Phy s i c i an , the talletin 'was urthivoutahle. Tt de- ed the po ss ibl e , a lth oug h not probable, change of flys situat!on of the country, and:after - the two ad- clered that the King had passed an indilfereat night.' tern from the Regent - appointed. ( N aar, hear.) He which had taken place; 'the Right Hon. Let the House beware hove they permitted the key- would say, that such a change, although he did ace el would be hardy enough 'to propose a fur= stone Ort i he arch ofthe Constituticin to be withdrawn. think it probable, in our system of politics, for in-' eenession of their proceedings. Be the report The Right Honourable Geritliman 'had talked of stance, towards Spain and Portugel, might be atten let in by the Right Honourable Secretary .of detirrnning." When 'George I. and • George li, ded with the mast serious incoaveniehces. He would (an d h e must here expresshis• satisfaction that were absent from the tonntry, and the kingly office not suppose that any one'would attribute to Ministers t o the interposition of his Honourable Friend was executed by Regents, were those MOriarchs de- a wish to remain in their present embarrassed situa -I;im, t h at re port had not 'been received without throned ? Would the House endure to be told die. • tions, their only with, was to fulfil their most arduous ir appeared, that, after an interval of tinctly, and threatened by inference, that if they ' duties. He was confident, that the result of the exa , w eeks, his Majesty was still wholly incapable adopted a tonetitutional proceeding, they woultide- ! mination before the Privy Couricil had created a ge :tending t o public business. The Physicians were throde the Monarch? Isro ; those who proposed the neral satisfaction through the House, without any' unanimous in rising on no period as that of the' adjournment, and thoieWho, probably with the best , difference' of party. If at the end of the adjourn ibie term i n ation of his Majesty's disorder. In i n t en ti ons , su pp o rt e d it, w ere . t h e i n di v id ua l s from meet, the expectations raised were not realised, it' situation the House and the country stood, whom the Constitution would experience the severest , would be necessary to adopt some further proceed , the King became incapable of discharging the injury. They would thew that the country could ings ; •and he thought that the House would fulfil the and i m portant duties of his station, would be Ido at well without that Which had hitherto been Cori- wishes of the nation in allowing as mock time as pos described in the words of Lord Camden , whO, on sidered an • essential part of the Government as with sible for the recovery of Isis Majesty, in allowing the ilarloccasion, declared, "that the whnle functions ; it, if they could prove, that so long as it was pro- thing fair play, and not taking any measures until to c.ccutive Government were thereby suspend- bable that the King might recover, so long the they were absolutely necessary. H e wou ld take a retrospect of the late trans- i Government could go on without any Xing at I Mr. PONSONBY was of opinion, that the Right is. In the first instance, letters' having been all. In 1788, the novelty of the circumstances in Hon. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) ten b y his Majesty's Ministers, to those Members . which the Country was placed, was an apology • who had proposed an adjournment for a fortnight, who were favourable to their view s , and to no • for the omission which had been allowed, and had steered very widely from that proposition, in ; t h e House assembled on the first instant, and the errors 'whirrs had been committed at that peritid . what he had said in support of it. The House ought. ) .,, ne d f or a fortnight. On the 15th, having . but did the Right Honourable Gentleman who was ;to agree to the proposition for an adjournment, i n a , se mbled..in full number, another adjourn- then at the head of the Administration, after the first .they had been told, because the Physicians had said, was proposed ; against that adjournment he adjournment of the House, urge a moment's delay that there was a strong probability of his Majesty's Whitbread) protested, an d a division taking ,in proceeding to supply the deficiency that existed ? ultimate recovery. He was as much gratified as any di v ided. The Right Honourable Gentle- No such thing. Though from various circumstances man in that House could he, to hear sueh a statement, h a d f o unded his proposition of the 15th' on the the accomplishment of the remedial measures pro- j that there were hopes of his Majesty's ultimate re- Istance of his having just returned from Wind- posed was postponed, yet up to the period of Lord covery ; still that was not the question before the and of his being enabled to declare, " that his Thurlow's declaration, not as the Right Honourable H ouse ; The quesion was, in fact—Ought the House sty was in a state of progressive amendment." Gentleman had stated it, that his M jesty's health , according to the Constitution, take a certificate in the' them the Right Honourable Gentleman had used was better, but that he was actually in a state of con- shape of a Report of the Examination of his Majesty's sa me consolatory but delusive words. Deceived valescence, up to that period the whole bent of both Physicians before the Pt ivy Council, as a ground for :hem o nce, would the House allow themselves to Houses of Parliament was applied to make provision ' their adjourning for another fortnight ? They ought _i v ed by them a second time ? If on the 15th fwr the correction of the existing evil. Now, however, t not ; and though he was in the presence of many emi- House had adopted the proposition which he had they were called upon to lay on their oars, and all,' nent Lawyers, he feared not contradiction : such a i mended, of adjourning from day to day, would . from a misunderstood delicacy toward his Majesty, ! certificate was no sufficient ground for their adjourn- we been possible that they would now be so re- who, if he deserved to be beloved as he was believed, ment. The Privy Council was a great body, it was from the situation in which they ought to find and that he did so deserve no man could doubt, would true ; but by the Constitution it Was net empowered elves ? that they would now be so remote from think the Constitutian of the Kingdom of fir more to supply any deficiency that might happen in the third preliminary step to the removal of the existing importance thin his own individual feeling. 66 But," t estate of the Constitution. The Privy Council could iency ? Was it not evident, that on the evening said the Right Honourable Gentleman, "we must do no more than examine the Physicians as to the state 15th, at the very moment that the Right 'Ho- abstain from diseitssing this subject, for fear of in- lof the Sovereign's mind, if it were supposed that he , a ble Gaidenian was talking in that House of creasing the Royal malady." Yet in 1788 and 1789, could not exercise the royal functions; and, if unhap progressive amendment of his Majesty, his Ma- the sttbject had been discussed for three months with- ; pily they should find that such was the truth, then they os malady had considerably increased ? Did the nut any increase of that malady, and under all their were bound to certify the fact, oldie Royal incapacity feels tell truth Or falsehood ? If die latter, they debates, the King had got well—and what was the to the House. After they had done that, their power base imposition on the Public ; if the former, differerice in the situation of the country xt the two ceased ; they had done all they were capable of per involved direct contradictions. The Bulletin of periods ? The Right Honourable Gentleman at the forming Out such a certificate, containing the °pl ay the hills declared, that his Majesty was not head of affairs in 1788, it had always been his fate ; nion of the Physicians, that his Majesty would ulti .ll as on the preceding day ; and in that of Se- to oppose. Whatcver, however, • had been thought i mately recover front his present indisposition, was the 17th, it was said, that for the last two of his politics, the nation had confidence in Mr. Pitt's not a ground that would justify the House in ac ,the fever of the King had been higher, includ- talents, and they were content to leave in his hands ceding to the motion before them. Whoever heard cnsequently, in that description, Th ors(' y the that power which they thought could not be better 1 that toe Privy Council was competent to supply a ,on which day the Right Honourable Gentle- lodged than' with him. But did the Gentlemen op. I deficiency in the third Estate, by the incapacity of declared his Majesty to be in a state of progres- posite assume ;fiat they occupied such a space in the the Royal Person ? Such a position was never heard amendment, and to which day the Bulletin of eyes of the pco l -le s Mr. Pitt, or that they could go , of, and the Privy Council could only inquire as to the 16th referred, as a day on which his Majesty had on as Mr. Pitt might have gone on, without general state of the Royal mind. It was the duty of the two ;partitively well. He might justly enter a diisatisfaction ? It was unquestionably most unfortu- existing States of the, realm (the Lords and Corn , against some of the proceedings of the Privy nate, that alter the experience of the evils and dan- mons) to supply any deficiency there might be in the acid, and particularly against one of the ques- • gere of 1788 and 1789, •some remedy had not been constitution. What was there before the House, that which, in his opinion, ought not to he asked. adopted to provide against the recurrence of such an it was said would justify them in acceding to the mo he particularly insisted on the absurdity of using exigency. There had been since two melancholy I don for a further adjournment ? A report, containing term 4 , progressive amendment," when one of instances, the one in 1801, the other in 1805, of a ; certain questions put to his Majesty's Physicians, by Physicians (Doctor Bernie) had expressly said, . derangement in the Royal mind. Out of delicacy, Ithe Privy Council, with their answers. Some of those 66 during the last ten days," his Majesty was however—a mistaken delicacy, and in the culpabi- I questions were very improper, and ought not to have ; necessarily excluding the day on which the lit) , of which he could not deny his full share—no step been put. Good sense, as well as common decency, it Honourable Gentleman had declared, that of a prospective nature had been taken. There were would not have dictated such inquiries. Such was lajesty was in a state of 66 progressive amend; many circumstances in our situation in 1788 mate- the report which the Chancellor of the Exchequer ;" and distinctly implying that he was worse rially different from the present. His Majesty was told the House would justify them in agreeing to his that period of ten days. The fluctuation of then in the full vigour of health ;he was not far ad- motion ; and another Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Majesty's disorder was hereby rendered evident, vanced in years—he was accessible to all—he could : Yorke) said, that if the House were to proceed to the not seeing a probability that in the Interval Pro- shew himself to his loving subjects, and receive their 'appointment of a Regency, such an act would be pro his Majesty would be so far recovered as to be congratulations—he could repair to the metropolitan Iductive of great inconvenience, because it would be able of exercising all those royal functiZnis which, • cathedral of the kingdom, there to return thanks to j productive of a change of system in the exercise of the at me like the present, it was so necessa r y should Novi oENcE for his recovery, and by all these means lexecutive power. It was not for the House to inquire, duly exercised, he should on that ground alone . convince the people that that recovery was genuine whether the appointment of a Regency would be pro. ide the House on the present question, and call and complete. Unhappily, however, his Majesty had' ductive of this inconvenience—of a change of system; an examination of the Physicians by a Committee, lately been afflicted with a calamity—the deprivation i but the question seemed to b should the House con a Frelude to further proceedings. Had the House !of sight, which rend-red him inaccessible to his sub. sent to hand over to the Privy Council the Con. the 15th adopted the adjournment from day to : Jests—whi . eh rende r ed him inaccessible to the know. ; stitution, and be satisfied to do what such Come id had the then se , - - - the Id hr - leJtr." ',di it should di ? The Pri , ant .tad they then seen as tney won._ _.ave seen, . instead of amending, his Majesty's health was efortunately getting worse, would it therefore have • possible for them to have resisted a motion for examination of the Physicians ? He contended tat it v.ould have been impossible. With every . -ling of personal delicacy towards the King, he felt ce strongest delicacy towards the people and towards tie Constitution. When people talked of personal de icacy, in a case like this, to a Monarch so long and ) justly beloved, they ought to be cautious how they eplA the term. He was persuaded that his Majesty 'odd scorn to be told, that in consulting his delicacy ,- did not hesitate to bring the high office, !oy the nediccharge of the duties of which his Nlajesty bad le himself so beloved, into disrepute. He - wouid could any act of authority be promulgated nighout these realms to which, in the present cir rsttnces obedience was. due:? Was there, a seat of qice ? Vas there a fountain of mercy ? Could an • he commanded? Could an army be recalled ?. id reinforcements be sent to Lord Wellington ? id an unfortunate culprit be pardoned ? Did his tjesty's Ministers wish to persuade the House of minions to connive at the extinction of the Royal dimity ? They Would not dethrone the Monarch, it they would take the crown from the Constitution. insure obedience, protection must be insured.— here was that protection at tile present moment ? la his Majesty's Ministers ?. If so, they were Re er.ts. Could they even legally convene the Privy 11,1161? Miglie not any other Privy Councillors that body,- and. 'for any other purpose?— add even the paper that evening laid on the table the House be legally produced ? Necessity cer ittly justified its production ; but that necessity 'eta to be removed the instant that the power ex to remove it. And let the House consider at At a period all.this was occurrinA ? At a time ien weeks carried a load undeeeditch centuries had 'tofole staggered.. If an accident were to befal Commanders abroad, how would their loss be ? If an accident Were to befal our Corn- Ider-in-Chief at home, how would his loss be sup- If his Majesty ' s Ministers Were to act in such M anner. as co - draw down upon themselves the of that House; Wig could that displeasure exPtettedin Addres. tOlhe Throne? Did his ci. lots. iirect .vy council was not corn, petent to inquire into, and to provide for a deft. ciency in the Constitution ; and that House co-ope rating with the Lords, was competent to provide i(tr any such deficiency. He would not consent to dele gate the Privy Council to do that which belonged alone to the two Estates of Lords and Commons, when a deficiency in the Constitution occurred. His had not been 4 p?-.-ized <.f the examinati , in in stituted by the Privy Council ; he kneW no mare of it than the inhabitants next the North Pole; and how could it retard his recovery? Something ought to be done ; the House ought not to adjourn ; 'and if the deficiency in the Constitution were supplied, should his Majesty recover after a long illness, then Mini sters would be hurrying the House into the adoption 'of measures which they deemed necessary. A Right Honourable Gentleman opposite (Mr. Yorke) had said, that the appointment of a Regency would up set that domestic economy approved by his Majesty, and would consequently, be very inconvenient ; there fore, he (Mr. Y.) thought it ought not to be resorted to; but he (Mr. P.) could not persuade himself that, if a Regency were appointed, it 'must necessarily do wrong; that the Pat liament and Ministers must do wrong if a Regency were appointed. If it were to them a case of inconvenience, it was one of their (t he Mini sters') own choosing '; for nobody forced them into the situations which they now filled, and of which they seemed so anxious to keep possession.. ( Hear.) It had also been said, that on his Majesty's recovery it would be painful for him to learn what had taken place, owing to the unhappy situation in which he had been placed; but allusions of such a nature ought not to be made. The House ought to be guided by constitutional considerations alone. They had been, told, that it was in the power of the two Houk:, be yond all question, to provide for a deficiency in the Constitution ; but then, it had been idded, that they ought not to 'provide for such deficiency now, be cause his Majesty's illness would not be of long du-. ration, accoriling to the report of the Physicians.— That was Ole opinion of the Physicians; and as those said wilt.; urged that of)iiiion 'upon the House, it was subject to the uncertainty cous,:quent on medical pre. fictions. No one of the Physicians had said wheni t was likely that his* Majesty would recover y and no one of them could form . .a satisfactory mordant." Ledge of passing events except through the medium of others. He was advanced in years, and was more in the power of ot!ler men than he had been before. These considerztions had been last year painfully forced upon the attention of the public by his Ma jesty's Ministers, who made his Majesty's calamity the House of his inaccessibility to his subjects. Let the House seriously corr.ider these things, and then let those who could doso vote for an adjournment. H. coal i not conceive it possible that the Right Hot;. Gentfttnan should obtain the support of the House to his motion. For himself he should vote altogether against it, feeling it an undispeitsibil. duty to which the House was bound, in the first place, to ascertain the fact of his Majesty's indisposition by an examina tion of the Physicians before a Committee, and in the next place, to take steps to supply the deficiency, if •necessary, and if not necessary, to be ready for any future necessity that might occur. Even were the King to be restored to the full possession of his faculties, and were instantly to encounter the accu mulated business (in which he confessed that he saw a danger of relapse), still the : House and the Coun try ought to be provided with sometliiag to which a future reference might be made, in order to supply any dccasional jetioency in the royal authority. He should give his decided negative to the motion. Mr. YOR KE thought the situation in which the House then stood, the most difficult and the Most embarrassed . that could be well conceived. They should panie before they went to a determination ; the very re-union of the House,under the present cir cumstances, was a perfect anomaly, . They were in fact botind to do what was necessary, and nothing but what was absolutely necessary. The Honourable Gentleman who had spoken last had taken advantage of the inconveniency arising from the present state of • things ; no doubt the inconveniency was great, and his Right Honourable Ftiend had stated it to its full' extent although in fewer words, by Saying that they had only - the choice of evils... The Honourable Gen. • demon had, flowerer, gone farther than could be juts . tified by the proceedings of 1788 ; for if the case was so very urgent,as - he had represented it, why did such delay take place, before any measures we're adopted ? The times, indeed, were different from the present.— We were then at peace, *ld if it was deemedytudent :to wait then, what would. exist in the conviction of c 1 the Rig t Hon h , d. c tsed, 7m.rti on and I Ph] • io believe, IT c • L otion of the „ Tie nt; Ve .11C ha ra \you'd be ' s ,„pensinn of !h ;rend in by the ( an d he must 1 'P e g to the interpos t . b .. e: re port Lies fool, is ai'Pe peeks, his M. att ending to ebb unanimous in ll] termination I t situation tl'e . ELL t he King beta! h and important t described in the ,;milarloccasion, de die executive Gov " He would tat ens. In the firs . tten b y hi s Majes y who were favou ers ; the House a, i n .:J:lft' for a fa asn 3,sembled..in ' li t was proposed 11r. Whitbread) ,ce, he divided. ~ had founded hi umstance of hisl and of his being jesty was in a s' Again tie Right same coasolator t hem once, woul deceived by therr House had ador .mmended, of ac ' have be..-n possibi, ae from the sitita mselves ? that th preliminary stet ficiency ? Wits ti 15:11, at the s •urable G-ntlenial • progressive amc !y's malady had .ill-tins tell truth .e a base imposit involved dirge I ,day the kith de • well as on the pi day the 17th, it 75 the fever of th g cnsequently, .th, on which da . declared his 1% amendment, a 16th referred,; comparatively otest against son quicil, and party ;ns, which, in hi t he particularly term 4 , progrE tf Physicians (ID ' du " during the later ; necessarily light Honourabi 6 Majesty was is lent;" and distill Wore that period 6 Majesty's diso: td not seeing a p Pied his Majesty apable of exercisi to t me like the 't t duly exercised, hide the House it an examitsatim f t a a prelude to fin s the 15th adopt lay, and had the) tat instead of at !;fortunately gets I km possible for c examination c tat it v. ould ha 1 keling of persona ' to strongest delic 6e Constitution. icacy, in a case 1 o justly beloved, IppEed the term. mould scorn to ha ''. they did not hesit daedischarge of ade himself so • could any roughout these umst mces obedi ustice ? Vas th( my he comman ould reinforcer( ould an unfortu • ajesty's Minist( °mounts to con uthority ? The but they would to F 0 insure obediei • Where was that 1 in his Majesty's rents. Could tl ? Migju 15. , f7r,1,1e that be Could even the p of the House be taitily justified i cught co be remo ed to remove it hat a period al hen weeks carol ,erttoto c stage r Commander Pphed ? If at Ander-in-Chief lied ? If his kith Manner, as co - d • s ure ef that I 1/4texPressed•initi tonid ate Howe, darter * add= tittle! &Sue, to the ICing, refuse to adopt some measures prellm;nnty to the proposing of what would supply the deficiency in the Constitution ? Would an inquiry etw,of th 4 state of his Majesty's indispositind, by an autho• rity delegated by the House, impose a necessity of appointing a Regency? Such an inquiry would not impose such a necessity, though such an inquiry ought to be instituted ; and if Parliament at last should find it absolutely necessary to appoint a Re. gency, still an inquiry must be made previously to such an appointment. —lf the House were to proceed to the appointment of a Regency, without previously instituting a Parliamentary Inquiry, then mdeed, he should think they were ring to " de throne the King," to use a phrase that had been adopted by the opposite side. When, however, any thing was done by the two Houses of Parliament to supply the deficiency in the kingly powers, • such procedure arising out of the result of proper in. quiry, it could not be said that they were going to " dethrone" the King The Hoe.cs naght, for instance, appoint a Regency . to 'supply tl.e de. .. ficiency occa.ioned by having an infant Sovtitigns still nobody could say that that was " dethroning" such infant King. Should his Majesty continue in his present state, without there being some measures had to supply the driciency thereby occas sinned, no one could foresee what vs' rfit be the consequences. The necessity for the exercise of the King's power might be very great and urgent, for no one knew what might occur in the course of a fort. night, engaged as this country was in a rn-st nro• meatous and perilous war; no one knew what thight be required of the kingly office within that period; therefore it would not be right to agr ee to the motion of adjournment: There bcii.g de ficiency in the ex ecutive branch of the Government, from the ChWe incapacity, it devolved on the two Houses of Para,. meat conjointly to supply such deficiency in the Constitution. They would da their duty us din country and to the King, if they were lame diately, to proceed to the taking of Inch psi liminary steps as would lead to the adopt; es of measures, that would iupply the kingly power, during the time that it should please Penis/x.lOl m continue the affliction of bis Majcsty. That 'Hoots and the House of Lords only coal) supply such det• ciency—could appoint one to manage kw the Kit* during his incapacity to exercise the Royal function., and they ought not, bccause of the excuse that his Majesty would recover within a very early period, pug off the taking of those 7relirninary steps which most be had recourse to before they could proceed to the adoption of any measures to supply the eeficieney in the Constitution. It fell to his lot to oppose the no tion, and if unfortunately it should be approved from false delicacy to the King, he should still think it ne. cessary that a Committee ought to be appointmi to ' enquire in the mean time into the state of his Majesty's malady. He should, however, leave both those subjects to the opinion of the House, bet he 'was decidedly against the motion for an adjournment. Sir FRANCIS BURDETT said, he felt he should not do his duty to the public if he did not state the grounds of his opinion on this subject, and his reasons for the vote he should give to-night. The Right Honourable Gentleman who had just sat down had stated truly, that that House . and the House of Lords were appointed to supply the deficiencies in the Third Estate. Notwithstanding all the respect which he felt for his Majesty, he must be permuted to treat such a subject as the present with the Itn. partiality and freedom with which he should feel himself bound to consider any other question in which the Country was equally interested. Ins. pressed with this feeling, he could not consent that things should be left for a moment longer in that perilous state in which they had continued forth. last month, and in which it was proposed that they should be suffered to remain for a fortnight loner. The only doubt, which remained with him was, who ought to supply the deficiency which here oc• curved ? In the year 1688, when James 11. left the Throne vacant, in consequence of his having violated the contract he had entered into with his subjects, the right devolved on the people. If that was the fact then, he was not prepared to agree that any House of Commons, far less a House of Com mons constituted and called together as this was, should have the right of filling this vacancy. The Right Ho. tiourable Gentleman (Ponsonby ) had .hewn that the Privy Council .vas assuming a rightto which it was not entitled, and that this examination now laid on the ta ble, was no ground for any Parliamentary proceeding, fai less for perseiering in the system of anarchy to which we were at present reduced. The evidence, as it was called, was evidence of nothing. If such had been offered in a Court of Justice, it would not have been admitted. We all knew that interrogatories could be so put by interested persons as easily to produce fa vourable answers. The last person whose evidencif should have any weight in a matter, such as that now under consideration, was the Minister, who was inte. resteLl to deceive. Yet on such evidence, the Hoot* was called on to grant the Government of the Country to the Right Honourable Gentleman. If he triefe asked jibe would agree to the adjournment, he should feel himself called on to say, that he could not agree that the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Per ceval) should have the Government of the Co/wry. But that the emergency ought to be provided for at once. The Honourable Gentleman under him ('Mr. - Whitbread) had alluded to various periods in which Regencies had been appointed, and besides the ca lamity under which the country at present labotinells had alluded to the practice of petitions not now reaching the ear of his Majesty but through his Seat. tary of State. .The very idea of petitioning indeed hid in consecitience become a mere farce, so that when . petitions were talked of,. persons could hardly keep their faces. These were imperious and riemeelling' reasons for reskting the adjournment. It was cerAain things could not be allowed to remain in their preempt state. The arguments adduced on the idea of dertatey were most absurd. Delicacy was very well at a tea table, hitt to talk of it in the affairs of a nation was ca. temptilo, particularly if that natioa was cruelly laded, as this was. When,in such circumstances, he heard de licacy talked of, he always thought it weaht Delicacy to the other set was.to be applauded; have gut over that where the matter magi In the delivery of the Queen so much shoe ' regard paid to the importance of the natter. AO Is any nice sense of delicacy. that ptessetiOnF,steet •fit that period resorted to as to her, which is fe ease if II