Star. — London, England, 1817-07-12 00:00:00

z !•.t to answer I,is purpote Ls his attack upon Govcrn ,,rnt. He appeared to entertain views widely dig': :,root r..m his; to contemplate some great chance r 0 0l ha must he excused if he was thenght y. when he added, that the principles ni th • fine. L..sneci Gintientan- appeared to be decidedly review , . sty—(Thar. hear )—With respect to the ,::.berol and person*.l ati :stirs made upon his (Lord oo.lereiigh's) admiiiistrati -v. its Ireland, if there was few:dation f r , hem the twee:nuances ought tu o :ye been made lone ago t!:e subjects of : iiivestigetion, instead of beine reserved for the : "Tot purposes 'if malign:tor illiberality. (Thar, hear.)l The Honourable and Learned Geetleman had said, f*, t 110t4.1tIg had been don- to sautay the expectations ' o the conntry. Was it nothing to have accoen ooro eiot measure, when toe Gentleman opposite oboi. tlo beginning of the Sessions, as die wily or.: h meld LIVC the csointrjr--qmc abolition' ••I o oce Pear, Hear, hear) ? —W as it null: mg that ~• I:Acheium.r Bills had been appropriated to • e oi et oh the- meritorious poor 1— (Hear, hear). . it owning that the country had been preserved m ant effects of the machinations of evil disposed ova, and mat the loyal and industrious had been eotbl, d to enjoy tlie fruits of their labour in peace— Hear ? He appe.iled to every roan, to every Lest, to every upright man, whether there had ever to:ea Session in which so much attention had loon dieroied to lightening the burdens of the people Agar, kneel—He appealed to them whether evi ry thing bad nut heat done that the must sanguine ...xpeLtaliou could have bodied for under the circuno solicits? Asa prout•of the wisa , in sm.i the past, and time curifidence entertained by the country in the In. tire, the Government could look with satisfaction at. the state of the public funds, which had risen from si.eiy to eighty in a manner altogether unprecedented; and he would ask, was it nothing that the establish ments sit the country had been reduced to eighteen millions, in spite of all the reiterated 'prognostications to bite cautrary—(ldeardwar) As to the language in which tie Honourable end Learned Giiillemon had indelgerf with respect to foreign Proverb, he noise say that Wt it:nattier Government could not be amens- Me to the comitry fur the preservation of friendly re lit:ass, it such a course was pursned di that House. He most protest against it, and he must protest too against the principle which the Honourable and Learneo Gentieinan had assumed, that we ought to us: ow flower or dictate interested commercial cote cessions irons the minor European States,: Tots was pri.icipie unworthy -ot Great Eintaia—a principle e nevelt would a ct upon ; for he believed it to be xaoratir and politically wrong—(Hear).—Having avOwed , o ilia, he had answered t h e whole of the Ho nouratiii; and Learned Gentlemen's-arguments on that quiestion.- In what Government had done they had reference to the advice and opinions of the law ser vants-Of. the Crown as to the law of liations,• winch the lioniourable and Learned Gentlenionstemed ready to 'tangoes' whenever it might answer his purpose. The Hein. and Learned Gentleman had travelled in:o the large question of our policy with respect to South 'Americo He must repeat his surprise that such a cioepter as this had been reserved for the close el the Session. It formed a q'iestiost tiPon . which he felt a difficulty in saying all lie felt and all he knew ; but when the time came, he should be ready to prove, that even with all the coMplicationt of policy 'be tween tbe.perent lute! and • 'their' colonies, Govern. meat 1,41,r pusued a course which would entitle them to the sonction or the House. If the Honourable and Leorned Genai man thought commerce had suf. 'tett& wstO South America, he twist deny the fact.— As to the amount of the trade of this country with that quarter, he believed he had now nothing to re. spire. Its commerce with this zeuotry, as with ethers; roes injured by the want 'of a settled Govern end the language of the Hon: and Learned Ge'etteman was not caiculated to lesten the evil. If Ministers had erred so grievously in - tbit quarter of i'ae world, the Honou ra bl e an d . Learned '.Gentleman had convicted himself of a violation of his own duty, is not having brought forward a separate and spe cide ctiaryie against them on this account. As to :he treat) el Parii— differing from the Learned Member m tie did on other questions, he was not am hitious at his concurrence on this ; but he should have thuoght the Ministers of the Allied Powers :were mere. drivellers, if they did not look with sus. picion at those persons who held to the man, that. nad shakos the political world to its foundation, zed among them to the person (Lucien Bonaparte) who .seemed to have had the hbuour of the Learned Gentlenoin's personal acquaintance. (Hear, hear.) It time House supposed this Gentleman to hate been doing nothing but mating verses, and conversing .with the Learned Member 'when he terpi'la Italy, - .hey would be the dupes of the Learned Centlensan's ignorance ors the subject. 'the plotting of the Bo- roparte family had extended to Arilvica, and the House would agree in thi - prudence of preventing Lucien, the most. dangerous amongst them, and even his son, from joining the members of their plot is AmMica, or of being allowed to remain on the coast with facility of escape. The Allied rowers Lid in their lenity,• taken precautions against the other reembets of the Bonaparte family, that they might Oa . be driven to the necessity of protecting the world against them by stronger measures ; and in the sound efts of-this policy he was not shaken-by any doubts the Learned Gentlemen bad expressedio He (Mr. Brougham) appeared alarmed lest therpreiene peace slinuid continue, he could not weie l lerne Speech trom the Throne before he favoured the country with his gloomy prophecies. That the system of Europe must of necessity, for some time, be one of extensive armament, was true ; for it would be unpardonable it they were not to profit by the experience of the last twenty years, or run the chance of having their Pl l 4OOlll slumbers -some • morning broken in upon by an enemy that should take them by surprise—(lleor.) If Government could but protect the country from the class of persons called Reformers, but who were in reality Revolutionists and Disturbers, he had no expectation of peace being interrupted from any other quarter, and it would depend• a good deal upon these Roomers, as they called themselves, at what time, ,all , l to what extent, a reduction in our militaryoesta °lido:nem shall take place. He believed it to be of advantage that a British corps should be mixed up with the troops of the Continent; it shewed, at least, there were no views of individual conquest. With respect to the two appointments of Mr. Reynolds.and dtimaesa, .bc must tcpeatb as to tbc-formerilie had hitard nothing of hit moral character tr, disqua lify him for an appointment in a distant colony of the North, with at sal .17 of only 9 hundred pounds ft ye , r- if would- have been unworthy of Govern ni: 1. -.. 1-t him wander about the victim ot persecu ti , •,..t er he had made amenis for his own error, by soformoig.Government of tl,e desiens o' others. He (Lord Castlereagh) was not in office vt,en Mr. Rey nolds rendered this service to Government, but he had been thought well of by Lord Chichester, who ap point.:d him Postmaster in Lisbon in the Peninsular war. It was on his evidence that the O'Connors had accepted retirement from their country.-.that 53 trai tor.. had been incorporated in that act of banishment. What Government knew of Mr. Reynolds was from a Mr. Cope, a relation, a Merchant of Dublin, who Sieving been dining with him, on their. way home some conversation was entered into from which Mr. Cope learnt something that he communicated to the Government of Ireland, on condition that Mr. Rey. nolds should not be prosecuted. Now as to Mr. Manners, Government were not accountable for all the previous circumstances of a man's life whom they might employ. The appointment Mr. Manners had received was £2OO a year in the State of Mi4iS.A. chusets. He had been called to the Liar hy the Society of Lincoln's Inn, after opp.no t ion had been made to it, and the grounds of objection obviated. So that he could see nothing improper in the appoint ' rent. The Noble Lord, after adverting to the Ca. droll': Question, which, he said, lie did not before know had a hearty and decided friend in the Hon. and Learned Member, said he never should be for given for preventing the efforts of traitors to sep irate Ireland nom this country being carried into effect, and thence he was calumniated, but he had no fear that those who knew him would suspect him of cruelty. En..rniiries were unquestionahlv Lt.-minted in Ire land ; but those who originated ~ . .1 enc , ,uraged re hellion there fad 'o lby the results .. in, it- consciences. I It was unmanly and tilianeirms, atter bitting silently for twenty year, to bring forward char,ies against a' Minister, woo taught n' longer be able at once to go into exculpatory particulars of the case. He had trespassed too long on the patience of the li,u,e ; but, after the unexpected attack which had been made, and utter the unaerstanding out of doors that die Motion of the HOnoutable •and Learned Member should end in nothing more than one of those intro. cent Resolutions which might rescue his illustrious name tram forgetfulness, he could nut have said le,s, and he felt it would be unpardonable in him to say more-( Loud cheering.) Mr. BROUGHAM explained, that in alluding to Mr. Manners as a libeller, he had not had reference to the case of a Finnerty v. Manners," but to that of the a King v. Manners," which was 4 libel intru ding' into private and domestic life. Sir FRANCIS BURUET r said, the Noble Lord was mistaken hi assuming that the shocking barba rities committed in Ireland had not been noticed in that House. He (Sir Francis) recollected a prOpob sition being moved, declaring it highly inhuman and unconstitutional to indict torture for the purpose of extorting confessions ; but, from the pecular caarm possessed by the Bench on the opposite side, it was impossible to bring the House to the vote, as it was impossible to bring it to any vote implying censure on a person who should sit on the Bench which was now graced by the Nobl e L or d. Of Rey no ld s the., Noble Lord said he knew nothing. He supposed Reynolds, and Castles, and the rest were 44 all—all honourable men ;" but he would relate a plain tale of this person, for the facts wanted no declamation, and leave the House to form an opinion for them selVes. The account he had received of this mast was contained . in a letter which he should read.-- I It stated, that Thomas Reynolds was, in 1795, an jammer in Ireland, against persons with whom he was associated in alleged conspiracies ; on a trial fot one of which several persons were called to prove the informer and witness, Mr. Key. nolds, was not to be believed upon his . oath.— Mr-Valentine O'Connor, a respectable merchant ut Dublin, who was known to Lord Rendlesham and Colonel Witherington, of the 9.h Dragoons, swore Reynolds was not to be believed on his oath, and added other particulars of this man's exploits and character—(!,tear; hear.) The Noble Lord (conti nued Sir Francis Burdett) had, - with a strange per version of.moral feeling, endeavoured to excite sym pathy for the torturers rather than the tortured. No body had dragged Mr. Reyholds obtrusively forward. for the mere purpose of :hewing him off in his true l eolours ; be might have remained in the obscurity 1 best befitting him, if he had not been discovered find ing bills of indictment againt less lucky men than himself. • Mr. Reynolds might therefore thank him self' for the exhibition Which had been made of him ore-his tide of the House. To hold up such a person in the way he bad been held up on the other, could not add ,hush to that part of the strength of Govern. 1 ment which consisted in public opinion. What could be so revolting as a gang of miscreants issuing from a Government Office into the haunts of private mi sery, to entrap poverty and wretchedness into the commission of crime ?—(Loud erica ef Hear, hear.) — This was not suspending, but destroying the Consti onion. Besides these Reynolds': and Castles, ano ther person bad lately applied, not personally, to a 1 printer, to print some violent and inflammatory hand bills, the copy of which the printer thought it right to taste la .the Secretary of State's office, where he 'sawsinsavt, he did not know, but who told him to send•the hills to Mr. Nicholls, Bennett's-hill, Black friars rand what; was the printer's surprise to find out, lochs after, that the person who had given the order for the bilk, and the person whom he met at the Secretary of State's office, were the same!—(//ear.) Besides the other charges against Reynolds, he (Sir F Burdett) had been told that he was guilty of extor tion and unfair charges, while he was in the Post Office at Lisbon. It had always been laid down by the best writers; that the employment of spies was a never-failing characteristic of an arbitrary and vicious Government ; and though the Noble Lord might be content, like Nero, to say of the people, A Oderirst dum metuani," yet he might recollect, or reflection": might teach him, that " firaininuent isaperiam gas obe , theater gaming," and that a Government could have no real stability hot in the affecilons of its subjects. : If we were to hate a Standing - 1:rilly, if we were to ihavel - Military Goverment (an apprehension which was now pretty fully realized, for nothing was to be seen but soldiery in all directions), there wire indeed I the gteatcsrappreheasion that mil thing Pata:C the Imercy or t h e rxecot;re. T, hold our lih.•rty 3t t.l.!` will of another was a situation little better than death ; but it Was much worie to stand 1.1 hoi,rly danger of solitary contit.erm tit it the caprici; or malice of a Mi. nister i.f . State—to be cu tiff 'rum all friends and ac quaintance, and to leave them in utter ignorance of our fate. Here a man had been seventeen weeks in pm.in, who had . .);:en tar al tip, ironed, and emote,- ed to Lancaster ga.il, for no other reason, but because he had beer. promoting a Petition for Reform in 1 ) .41 liament. If this were treason s let Ministers dccl ire so at once, and let us no longer be duped by the empty sound o! Allegiance to the King. To who:.!suever Ministers thought ilia,. al:cgiance due, at least they crig;:texplicltly to d e cl are , ti. - 4.1 cienly shew the rule by e.li . nd: in future we are to hold our lives and liberties. Tile most ar!;itrary tyrant that ever existed could no. he gu.lty (.f the gross iii]ustice of punishing for of. fences whicit had never bz....n declarri to he such.-- Let Ministers.then d.!clate at oace, that it should be high treason to promote Reform in Parliament, and we should know at once what we had to trust to.— The Hon-nirable Baronet concluded by observing, that his Honourable and, Learned Friend's M u ti t . a would not have be e n brought forward on the la s t day of the-Session, unless Ministers bad themselves 'nought fit to hasten tt!e prorogation—Wear, hcar ) , and that lie had repeatedly given them n- tice of his nitenti n, so that. the Noble Lard had no i ight to complain on that ground. Tl.ere were, indeed, many Motions yet undosposed , if, and in particular, one of nis (the licti-orroble Baronet's), which liai been .iriven 01F from day to day, arid which fie was now prevented from bringing forward ; so that there was gr at reason to complain that the Session had beer improperly hurried to a dose. But his m..in object in rising that evening was to contradict the assisrtitnis made in I ivour of the character of Reynolds the informer. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL contended that Mr. Reynolds had been believed by three Juries, end that it was net his own doing but oa mg to the Sum moning Officer that he was on the Grand Jury, nem which he wanted to be excused. _t Castica. mein knew nothing until a mi.nth atter the .2J of De cember, and upon his steteurent, connected with other circumstances, Government would not have bete justified it they had not tried the late State Prisoners. It there had been any thing in the other libel cause against Mr. Manners, he wondered it was not brought forward when he was called to the Bar. It was not surprising, that when Government had found Mr. Manners called to the Bar, that they should have ap pointed him to a situation which they supposed him Able to fulfill. His moral character was not inn peached by his having been found guilty ot the libel alluded to ; neither did his character, as a Gentleman, suffer Item it any injury. As to Reynolds, he heard noVeing against his character, save the charges which Were made against him b) the other side of the House; The Hteiouteibie Gemiemaii opposite held up this man es iit.t fit fu to trusted, tor whom, however, tie coulu say, that he conferred upon the Government ot Ireland many lair, vutuous, and bohourAbie see. vices. The characters of spies were too much re proached, and he thought that the slandeis hid) were flung upon them would be productise or great evil. Establish once the doctrine that spies Were in famous, and with that doctrine *mild. be established also universal impunity. Their testimony, it was acknowledged, ought to be received with due caution, but when it was corroborated, and was supported also by probability, it ought to be acted upon. Lord CASTLEREAGH, in explanation, said, that when Mr. Manners first applied to be mice to the Bar by the Society of Lincoitee Inn, an objection was made that he had been the author or a libel.— But the objection was fully discussed by the Bencherse and it was decided that the libel did not derog etc from his moral character, or from his character as it -Gen tleman, and he was accordingly called to the Bar: Mr. BENNETT said he would not have offered himself to the attention of the House at this late hour, it it had not been for some observations made by time Noble Lord opposite. The Noble Lord had accused come persons of ,being abettors of treason, and mai lignalit accusers of Goverument. If the Noble Lord meant to include him among those persons, he re. • yelled the insinuation with sewn, and professed, that as long as he had a seat in that House. such unwor thy imputations would never for a moment prevent :him hum criticising the conduct of Government. 'When he saw the people depoiied of their rights and 'liberties, he could not look en without indignation, 'and he was sore that tire future historian, when tra cing the annals of these day.s, will shudder at their unmixed blackness. _ He, for one, could riot detach from the remembrance of the powers conferred by the suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act, the abuse which was made of similar powers in Ireland. It was not - the first time that these charges against the Irish Government were made in the House. The former Member for Cork had repeated them over and over again, and with an earnestness and an enthusiasm wincheilways produced a strong impression—(Hear). He promised, that if a Committee were granted next Session, these charges wows' be established. The Hon. Gentleman then oberved upon the cruelties in flicted in 179 S upon a poor Irish schoolmaster, merely for having a French note in his possession, which Sir Thomas Judkin Fitzgerald did not understand, and which, when it was afterwards translated for him,' turned out to be a trifling request on s , me trifling business. The Hon. Gentleman here read the deposi tiOtt also of John Clare, of Essex -street, Dublin, the principal averment of which was, that he had known torture to have been inflicted on various persons in the - Castle-yard, and that it must have been known to Lord Castlereagh that pitched caps were bound on the heads of several persons, and that torture aas inflicted even in the open streets, on the Custom house Quay and Ormond Quay. The deponent furtber said, that he was solicited, to give testimony against United Irishmen, for which be was offered a Commission in the Army, and that, upon his an swering that he knew nothing about them, he was publicly flogged—that he received 100 'allies, and that to punish him still more, the wounds Were !tete bed with . salt and gunpowder. (Hear, hear. p \ --- The Honourable Gentleman would spare hiS coon leglinAs and those of the House, from steering any thing further of th ese atroc i t i es .. He would ask, what credit was due to 'the mein upon whose inforalei , ipa these punishments were applied t Reynolds had tag if thg oath of thi;•Untted Irishmen. He had taken the CanientiOn Oath, and several other oaths, yet he dated them all, and wee afterweede erodito ie a Court of Justice! The character of the 111.411 seed also int. peached by his own relatives, who accused him of several crimes, amoncwhich robbery was ineouJed. How, theretore; could it be sail [het his c leaves. was setup, because be bed het n credited by a Juty and by the House of Peer/1 S I was Diiedele —so was the immortal Titus (Met I if Castle had been be.. lieved by the J ur y b e f ore w hi c h he lately swore so hardly, would I s i s c h aracter h ave been then set up! World he have been kss the bully of the brothel te lt was vain to say that the Government heal been ig. 'went of this man until the beginning f this yea:. The Noble Lord at the head of the Home Depart• tnent had before that e a correspondence with a Ma. gistrate about him, and the fact was, this spy had only been kept back fur another opportunity. Ac to Oliver, he was astnnished that that Noble Lord would have suffered bun to go round the country, absolutely seeking whom he could devour. It the same clinics to s imulate the people had been made in 18:2 a, in 1817, he believed the consequences would have bee.: dreadful, because the minds of the people were then irauele more distui bed than they now were. lie tvnuld caution. die Ce'overta.neut net to pursue this deitgerotts system during the recess, and to beware hnw they would again tamper with the tranquillity of the country. —(!fear, Lord CAS ILEItLAGH rose, and begged the indulgence cf the.bleuse for a few inc.ments, is he thought that it was a duty incumbent upon him to defend himself from the imputations which had been rust thrown out against his character. He wineldent the tiro place, ask the Hon. Gentlernee whether those a:hdevits from'which he had reed extracts had not been d to him from Mr. Fineetty ? The iusinuetions wliten th, y co..veyed he would scarcely contradict, so f..riagit to ins na ine did he ever feel them to be. Tae Noble Lord then entered itito a history of his prosecution Mr. Finnerty sou a libel, and of Mr. Fintrerty's conduct on that occasion, and said that it was in consequence of this prosecution that this iudividuel had been prompted to toilect no fewer than one hundred affidavits of the kind now read, charging ham with every cruelty which could be committed. He denied that he was ever present at the infliction of say poniehnsent, except in one instance, where a man belonging to his own regiment was concerned, aid here osiiitery discipline comp( lied him t t attend. At the same time, he ad mitted that flogging had been used; and if it had not, the sword should in the end have considerably diminished the population of Ireland. Mr. H. ADDING TON said, that his Noble Re. idiot: never knew Castle until the beginning Of J 4. nuary last. As to Oliver, he must say, teat he be. Hewed him to be a greatly mimed mai. —Wear, hear, frets tie Olousiliote Benehte. )—He stated, :net within ate last tortuight, two M tg iutrateb of the county of Y o re had applied to his Noble itelaien to heie Oli ver examined, in order that it shouts' be seen whether he was insteunientel ie producing the late disturbenee. Their request was crimper , d with. Oliver was exa mined at the linme Odice. Th 0 ,..! two Magistrates took the examinations themselves, and the result that they were compl: tely •atisfied that the Charges made against Oliver vale utterly unfounded.. He stated .iso, that Oliver was sent into the cetnitry on a special mission. Liformetien sees qc.ised freers many Magistrates in -N ittingham an Liverpcol e - that a general risny, WAS intended to take place on the Bth or 9th of Ju t e, al.d he was sent into the coon. try to ascertain the truth of this information. He was positively enjoined ao be back .tai the 4th or sth, that the Government might be able to take every mtat:are of precaution necessary to secure Ale tran quillity of the country. Oliver was sent on the 2:id of May. :Ind thus the period of his missten did not extend beyond ten dr elev, n days He never asked any reward— he'nsedi tio terms—and uge to tee'pre sent hour he !emitted no money from Gesiern eseet , unless what wag'ffecessary to bear his expenses. Mr. BA RH Alvi supported the motion, and said, that the Court before which Mr. Olivet *as tried Vi4S of a very curious descripticn. Lord COCI-tRANE said, that all the ci:mplaints which were made against the peopit• were heard, and laid before Secret Committees, while not reie allege tion of any one of the rat . er us pet:tior,:: which were presented to the House from the p: 'plc were 7: ;- mined or treated with the smallest attention. :'i.e Ishible Lord then made some observ.onnison the st ore of the representation, alit, on the impossibity of the national debt being ever liquidated, unless the rate of interest was diminished. Mr. W I LLIAM SMI rfitould not helpexpresi:as satisfaction at hearing the condemnation of torture to extract evidence wlii?h !Lid Leen pronounced by the Noble laird (Castle: 1 6 4;7h). With respect to it Thomas Jodkhr Fitzgerild, who Lid heed *Hutted vs, he knew not whether iie was de.d or Alin, bu t he held in his hand a pamphlet be fritT to be A rep rt of a Trial of Thomas JuJkist Fite,ger4ld. 1 his Rephrt, uitained the defefice of Fitai i erald by hinrclt, in which be expressed sentiments twist opiffate to those which the Noble LOld had al:messed, for be declared to a Jury, that on a variety of vecasions lie had or dered to be flogged person who afterw 4i as proved t bo innocent, in a most uneterci!ul nvinhei,, for the purpose safe:tracing t: uth. It .L 4, was not true, why had it not been contradicted ? Why had the pamphlet in questi , in never b.:en pioseentca ? Was it mit true that the man who stated that in a Court of Juatlie had made use of tort tirejn a number of instantet tor the sake of cr;,taining f nib—who exulted and glbrieii in having done this,, h.. 11 litter wards been ma& a PL. ronet by Governilient—( /icor. hear, irdir.) If tiliS WAS true, haw could the Government distonnect them. selves from hi m I Would not the lair interenze in such a case be, that Goveinment not only, wished the infliction of this torture, but that they had rewardea this individual for doing that whichtliey wcie ashamed to do themselves, but which must always remain a terrible stain in the administration of the Irish ()aim ment —( Hear, hear, bear.) He had heard such thine mentioned as having n place, on d.c most re. pet. table authority, authority which he could no more doubt than h.: could doubt. the horrible :Lion of them. They ought to be held up as a beacon to all future times. They 'cou!il not be tesgotten any mere that the rebellion could be thrgotte:i—and they woulitlie perpettialli Li ought 'forward till (Jove§ iiment toot shame to themselves- (Naar, hear )--un ti I they edge an apology to (hi connu y for having permitted Or Con. :lived at these abominable practices. • He 'wet at all ,i;vents glad to hca: t:. at by ilk No,,k