Star. — London, England, 1810-01-27 00:00:00

to repeat, !minis", sr no zro t omy pose he should move for " a Committee of the wn.. House on Monday next, to take into consideration Ithe policy and cond uc tof the expedition toWalcheren." Mr, W. QUIN censured the conduct of_ the Expe. dition. The ignorance of the officers appointed to command it, of the nature of the country, and the force against which they had to contend, was ladien table indeed. The Honourable Gentleman then took a succinct view of the whole of the operations. The, object originally was, the destruction of certain arse nals and a number of ships. Instead of this, we de stroyed a sea-wall, took an insignificant town, and lost a considerable pot tion of our gallant army.— Lord Chatham had stated, in one of his dispatches, that Antwerp was completely defended, having an army of 35,000 risen, not one of whom he ( Mr. Q ) thought he might venture to say, had ever been op posed to our Austrian Allies. He thought the House could have no motive for refusing to go into the in quiry. Mr. CROKER rose, and expressed a wish that the 'duty of replying to the Noble Mover, and Honoura ble Seconder of this motion, had fallen into abler hands ; but feeling at the same time, that in the course of the evening he would have to call upon the House to vote against the motion, he thought that he could at no time do it with less appearance of pre sumption, than when the House was on the point of going to a division. The speeches of the Noble Lord, and of the Honourable Gentleman who followed, were filled with a variety of topics, in themselves in consistent and contradictory. The Noble Lord had throughout his speech made it a ground of his mo tion, that an inquiry was refused. He had heard with great personal pleasure, the splendid oratory of the Noble Lora, and of the Hon. Seconder ; hut good oratory, like good poetry, was better for a little fic tion.—(4 laugh). The Noble Lord assumed that no Inquiry was intended, and that it was the intention 'of Government to shelter certain persons. Bat whom were they to screen ? Were they thoie individuals who were no longer Members of the Government (Hear, hear, from the Omatilion Beneher.) If not then, what became of those taunts and sarcasms respecting the disunion of Councils ? The Noble Lord had asked why the Expedition had been sent to Walche ren, and not to Italy-or the North of Germany ? But it was obvious that it was much more desirable to send it to a destination within twenty-four hours sail of our own coast than to more distant points. But these were questions not to be discussed at that ' time. The whole of the Noble Lord's reasoning had been founded on a detail of facts, which, as the documents were nut before the House, must remain uncontradicted by them, but which he would take upon him to assert were either wholly with out foundation, or greatly exaggerated. The Noble Lord's assertions had been made with confidence ; but he, though he could not boast of the same confidence with_the Noble Lord, (a laugh, and hear, hear !) yet would affirm most strongly that the Noble Lord's facts were incorrect, or greatly exaggerated. In this state of the question, with the preponderance on his side, as he had seen the documents, it was impossible for the House to decide between him and the Noble Lord till the documents should be laid on the table. The course pursued by the Noble Lord had been un fair and uncandid towards his Majesty's Government. (Hear, hear, hear !)—He had taken the dates of the battles of Aspern and Wagram correctly, but he had not taken the date when the Expedition was ready to sail, The account of the battle of Aspern was not received till the Bth of June in this country ; and on the following day, the 9th, the Expedition was under taken. But the Noble Lord had asked, why the Ex pedition had not been undertaken before the intelli gence of the battle of Aspern ? His Majesty had in formed the House, that he had not incited Austria to the war ; and if this country, before it knew that Austria was engaged in the war—before it knew that the die was cast, and that the fate of Austria was in its own hands, had exhausted its resources by expedi tions, he would assert that Ministers would have in curred a much heavier responsibility, than if the fai lure of the Expedition was attributable to them. As to the observations which had been made on the conduct of the operations, it was a strong symptom of the decline of military feeling/ in the country, that such a disposition prevailed to depreciate mili tary Commanders abroad. Whether they managed so as to preserve their armies, or nobly advanced without regarding minor considerations, to risk every thing where the stake was worth risking, they were alike subjects of calumny and detraction. In the good old times, officers were left to their . discretion, and their actions were considered favourably, and even their errors were overlooked. In the times of the great Marlborough, the spirit oldie times put down that calumnious practice. He had paid particular attention to the ,Noble Lord, and thought he deserv ed a better return at his hands ; but the inattention of the Noble Lord would disenthral him from the same obligation in future. The Noble Lord had said, that he would not enter into any consideration of the cam paign in Spain, and yet had afterwards, for the pur pose, as it would appear, of contrasting the conduct of the enemy with that of our Government, adverted to the progress of Soult towards the south. But the army at Placentia was not Souk's alone, it contained those of Ney and Mortier also. The facts of the No ble Lord were contradicted by the statements of the Hon. Gentleman who followed him ; but both, he 'contended, were unworthy of credence. Did the Noble Lord mean to say, that the papers, when pro duced, might not justify both the time, the destina tion, and the execution of the Expedition. He did not mean to say that no Inquiry was to take place, but that the House should first know what it was to inquire about. If the fault was with Ministers then Parliamentary Inquiry would be most proper ; but if the Officers thought it should go to a Court-Martial, why than should they go into a species of Inquiry, which would be as injurious to the public service, as destructive of public justice ? (Loud cries of hear, hear.) He repeated that such a mode of inquiry was I not likely to promote public justice ; because as to a late memorable case, he never had heard a Gentleman on either side of the House say, that he was satisfied with the decision. (Hear, hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman then proceeded to reply to the statements of the Hon. Seconder, which he contended would. be proved to be unfounded when the documents should be produced. (Hear, hear.) Honourable Members may not belii.ve his assertion, and in that they would support his argument to wait for the documents. He Slast gall) of that mortal decal which lootight g l o ry to the grav e, we p re p ared our medicine. ' e n the gave tip the struggle, we came forward kery of our aid s and administered our :111 the m ac ed i c i n e to the dead. Why did not the Expedition it to the Mediterranean or to the North ? Why re no t the troops landed in Italy or Istria ? Was w be to m t h a r we were in want of specie — that it e difficult to deal with a Ger man or an Italian more Jew—that all that a Dutchman would ask sto be satisfied by puffs and proclamations, and per moneY Was he to hear that the troops could it have been prepared, because Sir John Moore's y WAJ to have been the basis of the force, and that unfit for service—that army which these ice Ministers had vaunted as returning with a corn ,-atively trifling loss, with all its artillery and equi- Qe , unreduced in spirit, and uninjured in vigour? : e was sorry to be forced to draw comparisons, be . en our folly and the wisdom and energy of the 'stet of Europe. But the contrast forced itself upon • mild of every man of common observation. On IsJi of May, Marshal Soult was said to have sus fled not . so much a repulse, as a total ruin in Portu. I—his army forced to scatter itself through that .Id :Ilid hostile country—the fourth of his Army cut P i eces or taken—not a gun left , not a horse—his driven °award without intermission, not towards c protection of his ships, not towards e shelter of is own shore, hut through a ruined and wasted ter -tory —through that very Gallicia, whose difficulties rcre slid to have been the ruin of Sir J. Moore's rim . Yet on the 3d of August, Marshal Soult was Placentia, a place which he could have reached lr after a circuitous march of many hundred miles his army in full equipment—his artillery complete, I d r eady to chase his former pursuer from the cowl • through which he himself had been supposed to 'ander as a fugitive. This sudden recovery from dis ier was the criterion of a General. When Frederic as beaten before Prague, he advanced with his army Lis broken, spoiled, and beggared army—yet with .i, army be met the French at Rasbach ! and swept ;ern before him. Was it to be said, that there was a Eciency of transports, or that the transports were be detained until the success of Lord Wellington's tilts was known ? 'What language was to be found a the incapacity which planned two such expedi i,ni, at once involving each other in their failure, lit c ontributing ttothtng to their mutual success; nibincd in their evil, but disunited in their advan re • and where had they been sent in the result ? l'o what possible point of contact with the Austrian ~,minion ? Were they not sent, as if by a fatal and .s.ine perversion of all choice, to that precise point here their efforts must have been exposed to obstruc ;on ; a strong country, well affected to the enemy,' idedly hostile to our interference ; where at every , ep we must have had a fortress to besiege, and here the consummation of our success was to be the 'lons and unprofitable glory of a coup de main. But the campaign were planned against all principle, it as put in act against all usage. The principles that France viltorious were to direct the main force o the main object, and distracting the hostile force, o concentrate their own. How were these maxims &awed by our matchless cabinet ? They determined o attack Antwerp, and they began by dividing their Ora to attack a miserable and useless smuggling own. On the 28th of July they sailed . They knew at the spirit of a coup de main is activity. But they solved to exhibit to the world an operation on a new vale, and try the effect of a surprise after a month's rake of their intention. It might not have been de- . og.itory to the character of an O ffi cer to enqu i re to the nature of the country in which he was to carry on his campaign. But Ministers were too much enamoured of their discoveries in the art of i war to violate a single principle of the theory. In activity was adequately associated with ignorance. They had yet to learn that Antwerp was a fortified town, and Lord Chatham with 40,000 men were sent out to act the part of spies, and reconnoitre the naked less of the land. But why had Walcheren been re timed until we were forced to give it up by the havoc c 1 its climate ? Was it to serve as a demonstration of our zeal in favour of Austria? Was it for the ingenious amusement of imposing on the simplicity of Bona parte? Was it to force him to quit his pref ? Was it while Austria was palpitating and writhing ender his rasp, to force this flexible and unpurposed man to quit his hold, to release his victim, and come across the continent, to enter into an altercation with us for Walcheren, to contend, with an exhausted and expir ing army, the dreadful precedency of death in the most pestilential climate of the world ! He would make no personal objection to Lord Chatham; but without an idea of hurting individual feeling, he must express his %I-prise at such an appointment. He should have looked to some hardy and vigorous veteran, some nun known to the soldier, and to whom the soldier to'la have looked up with confidence. There was hat one solution : the project which none but the Mi- Listry could understand, none but the Ministry could "wite— the miserable offspring of their dotage—the illthaPpy banding which bore in all its movements the tr arts of the combined incapacities of all its parents —was not to be committed into the rude and uncour teous hands of a stranger. What were the prospects with which we commenced the campaign ? An army, wrong in numbers, high in discipline") unbroken in spirit : that army had been sent to perish in the char• cel-howes of Holland. We had allies, prepared to take a fierce and final struggle against the common 1 3 Pressor. We had wasted the resources of the coun trY we had killed the hope of the allies. If there ter was a time for inquiry, a time in which it was connected, not with Our fame but with our being, it xis the present. The expectation of the country, mid the Noble Lord, is directed towards us.—(Some laugh frfan the Ministerial Benches.) Sir, Ido not speak' here in the language or feeling of a party : 'tis to this Ho use; ' t i s to us t h e e y e o f e very man who thinks for the country is turned. He implored the House tot to suffer the stain of the Ministerial weakness to fix upon their purity, not to lose the confidence of the na tion, by a blind confidence in the faith of men, who had already deceived the hopes of the empire. We had still much to encounter, but we had much to lose ; if true to ourselves, we might still protect the Constitution from the strength of its enemies and the inpntence of its rulers. If feeble or failing in our duty we might see Ministers fall, but it would be only . the general destruction ; the huge and scattering mn that involved all that was sacred, and dear, and lonoarable in the country. lie had but one question as w i et tt %toll C uccalfmn, ulna 111111‘ aav `•^••• _ his Majesty to vote foe' this Inquiry, when be had guidon for the Inquiry'. This was no time for shuf assured them that satisfactory documents should be fling; and if they wished to set aside the distrust laid before them. The Hon. Gentleman concluded ; which had been industriously excited against that by moving the previous cosestion. ' House, nothing could remove it more effectually than Mr. BA'rHURST could not help admiring the to agree to the Inquiry.—(Hear, hear, hear!)—lf lively manner and animated oratory of the Hon. they should not, he would tell them that something Gentleman who had just-Sat down ; but doubted worse might come.. ( Hear, hear.) The prosperity much whether his Majesty's Ministers had, in select- of this country, which contained more wealth, com ing him, chosen the best General to conduct the de- i forts, and happiness than any other in the world, was fence of the expedition. That Hon. Gentleman had 'an object worth securing by inquiry. He was not thought proper to charge upon the Noble Lord who ! for any newfangled doctrines, for altering or refor brought forward this motion, with having acted in an ming the state of the Representation in that House ; uncandid manner ; but that Hon. Member was not but he thought that Parliament should go further an old Member, and that might account for the man- i than the present inquiry, and appoint a Committee nor in which he had animadverted upon the conduct to examine into sinecure offices. The; ought to take and speech of that Noble Lord. He had himself care that no man should hold a place without doing risen principally in consequence of the Hon. Gentle- the duties of the office. They should ascertain what man's attempt to hamper the discussions in that every man did for his money. (Near, hear.) It wus House, by the unguarded manner in which he had more particularly necessary now whet the tax-ga introduced the sacred name of his Majesty--( Hear, therers were at every man's door, threatening to pro- Hear.)—He was prepared to tontendohat the adop- ceed to extremities, unless they were paid ; and what Lion of the motion would nut be disrespectful to his the orders for such rigour were given by persons Majesty, and that it was the undoubted right of that holding sinecure offices of ten or twenty thousand a House to discuss the conduct of Ministers, as well as year. He should, therefore, support the motion. the propriety of every measure of Administration. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER The Hon. Gentleman had, in this instance, endea- fully acknowledged that the conduct of his Right voured to impose a restriction upon the discretion of Hon. Friend (Mr. Bathurst) this night, and his con the House, which he felt it his duty to resist. Though duct on the former night, was perfectly consistent. he had voted on the former night with the major. With respect to the manner in which the Noble ty, he did not look upon himlelf fettered as to his Lord had brought forward his Motion, nothing, he vote on this occasion. As he had been misunder- said, could be more fair and candid. He stated dis stood with respect to the grounds of that vote, which tinctly that what he wanted the House to determine had not given satisfaction to the Gentlemen on either upon was, whether they should enter into an inquiry side, he begged to state the reasons that induced him now, or not, upon the information they should here to vote as had done. It was his opinion, that the after possess ?—(Hear, hear, from the Ministerial ride of words of the Amendment that proposed inquiry went tk Hour..)—That, he apprehended, was the real state farther than that object, in anticipating the result of of the question. Gentlemen misunderstood the subject, the inquiry, and, therefore, he could not vote for it. it they thought that it was a question, whether the The question now under considerat'on was, whether House was to have any Inquiry at all ? The only goes the House should vote now that an Inquiry should tion before them was, Whether such an Inquiry should be instituted, or not vote for such Inquiry till aft T be made in the Committee of the whole House ? the documents should be produced. By moving the Now, really, viewing the question in that light, he previous question, the Honourable Gentleman ad- must say, that it WAS rather a singular proposition to mitted, that a ponta facie case for Inquiry existed.— call upon the House to go into an Inquiry before the But as the House was of opinion that some Inquire House had any informal ton upon which it could form was necessary, if ever there was a time when it was a judicial opinion. fie apprehended di it, to say particularly so it was the present, when so much of the least of it, it was a very emature step to take. the fortune and fame of the country depen de d u p on Had the Noble Lord done him the honour to put to the issue. All that the House was then called upon. him one question, before he brought forward his mo to vote was, that a Committee should be appointed tints, namely, how soon it was possible for him (Mr. to make the inquiry; but it would not follow that Perceval) to lay the promised papers on the subject such inquiry should be proceeded with if it should op- of the Expedition before the House ? He appre pear by the documents when produced, that no inqoiry hended the answer he would have given, must have was necessary. He admitted that such inquiries ware precluded the necessity of this debate. He had now productive of inconveniencies, by withdrawing o ffi cers to say, for the information of the Hou se, that he from theirduty ; but then therewere several points which would be extremely sorry if those Papers were no: no papers could elucidate, and which could only be laid on the Table by Monday next.— (Hear, hear.) come at by viva vcc: examinations. It was impossi- He had also to state, with a view to accelerate the ble for ani Papers to prove that a sufficient number production of the promised documents as much as of boats had been provided for landing the troops at possible, measures were taken that whilst the clerks Walcheren. It was alike impossible for Papers to were copying some papers, others were put into skew what the probability was that Antwerp, on a the hands of the printers ; and he could assure the coup ds main, would be found in a different state from House, that if they were not ready in a printed form on Monday, by -Tuesday at farthest they should that in which it afterwards appear ed to be. He wished to know what were the pr obabilities of the be laid before the House printed or unp rinted.— hear.) That being the state of the questio n, success of the Expedition—what the calculat i o ns upon (Hear, which they were founded, and also upon what grounds he apprehended that the question nova to be put from it was expected that the Expedition would arrive in a the Chair was, whether the House would determine given time at a given point. These were *objects -to have an Inquiry, when they had reeson to observe which no papers could explain, and which could only that on Monday they would have all the necessary be learned front viva voce examinations. So also with documents - ( Hear, hear,) and which lie trusted respect to the continuance of the British t ro op s inWal. would put the House in possession of that d e g ree of cheren so long, and the grounds u p on which that information, which his Majesty in his Speech, had told them he trusted would be satisfactory. An Ho point also, which he wished to have ascertained by i nourable Gentleman from behind (Mr. Fuller) told Inquiry, upon what ground it wa s thou g ht that this the House that the whole country was des i r o u s of in- Expedition would be a diversion in fa vour of Austria? quirt'.--( Help, hear.) —The proceedings adopted This was not a military but a political s u b j ect, upon with that view were certainly very strange - He was which the Members of that House were as competent humbly of opinion, that the object of all inqu i ry was to obtain information, but lie believed it was not t h e to judge as professional men. The H ouse ou g ht to pledge itself to the Inquiry, and to const itute t he tri - ordinary course of justice to determine to pun i sh be bunal. The disposition to animadvert up on the con fore it was proved there were grounds fur conviction. .' duct of officers abroad, arose out of the nature of a The object of Gentlemen scanted to be to get a vote free Government and character of a free people. At for inquiry, upon information hereafter to be laid be fore them--(llear, Hear.) — Surely s uc h a p roceedin g all times of our history, the best officers, who might be concerned in unsuccessful expeditions, were the was not fair after the promises made by Is s Majesty, subjects of much animadversion. that every information should be given to his Portia. Mr. FULLER declared himself of the same opi- talent upon the subject of these campaigns. He was nion with the Right Honourable Gentleman who not a little surprised at the view his Right Hon. had just sat down ; but really tha t Gentleman g ener- •Fr eid Mr. Battu r t lal taken f the sub j ect.— ally spoke so long, that he was almost tempted to He had heard a good deal of Parliamentary tactics, leave the room—(a buy of murmur, and Order, order!) but he thought Gentlemen did not display much skill However, as there were so many of them in the in that science, on the first night of this Session. House, if they would but shorten t heir s p eeches, it They thought to have overpowered them (t h e Mi would afford an opportunity of hearing many able nisters) by their unparalleled Amendment.—Confi- Gentlemen, who would be prevented by long-winded dent of their strength, they came down on t he O to s speeches from addressing the House at all—(A laugh night, with a Motion, the like of which, he believed, 1 1 and Hear, hear.) With respect to the question before . was never heard of before !—(Hear, hear, from the the House, he must remark, that , if M inisters -were Opposition) — He would challenge any Honourable really . disposed to inquiry, they would have produced G entlemhanere to never instancwas such ' e a Mo an tion occasion. so unparalleled eated ! the Papers to the House on tha t ver y da y . They Perhaps t (Reft could, in that case, not have given an opportunity cries of hear, from the Opposition)—He hoped never to any Gentleman to move for a Committee of In- I again to hear such a Motion, if the House wished to quiry, an inquiry which, in his view, was absolutely consider itself as influenced by principles of justice.— necessary—( Hear, hear, hear !) The whole Country, (Hear, hear.) —Nobody, he was sure, ever heard of a from one end to the other, was loudly calling for it; Motion condemning first, that which it afterwards re and the Country, he must say, had a right to be in- commended inquiring into. This was eustigatque audit formed where the fault lay, whether the Expedition que !—beginning with punishment, and ending with had been badly planned or badly executed—(Hear, trial !—(Hear,hear.)—For his own part he saw no good hear, hear.) The inquiry, therefore, was indispensa- or useful object to be gained by the present Motion. bly necessary ; and the sooner that House should de- Supposing it to be carried, Gentlemen would only cide upon it, the sooner they would prove themselves gain 24 hours by the bargain. It was impossible for to be the real representatives of the people who sent them to enter upon the Inquiry until Tuesday, because them there—(Hear, hear.) As to what had been till then it would be inconvenient to produce the ma said respecting the language of the King's Speech, ' terials upon which the Inquiry could proceed. The and the Address, that was of little signification, be- Right Hon. Gentleman concluded by observing, that cause they all knew, that these were always drawn the mash being thus stripped off, the House would up in a complimentary form. (A laugh.) But it perceive in its true point of view, the injustice and would have a bad effact, that it should go to the unwise celerity with which Gentlemen wished to pro. enemy, that on such a subject any difference of opi- cure a vote on this occasion. nion existed ;or that when the necessity was known Mr. WINDHAM said, he could not agree in the to exist for it, no inquiry was to take place. An ° view which she Right Hon. Gentleman, who spoke last Honourable Member opposite, (Sir John Sebright), had taken of the object intended by the _present Mo had on a formeonight talked of his not having con- tion. The Noble Lord, by this Motion, only wished fidence in the existing Government ; but he would , the House to come to a resolution to entertain Inqui ask that Honourable Member, what confidence he I ry, in consequence of the prospects held out in his could repose in him who had done him all the disser. ; Majesty's Speech, that the means of Inquiry would vice in his power, in order to turn him ou tof that House ; be p ut in possession of Parliament. It was quite fit - (Loud laughter). Another Honou rable Gentleman , tia g and becoming in the House to shew, that it did had used language towards his Majesty' s Ministers, not wait for invitation on the subject, but that which was even still more severe. That Right Ho- it was perfectly ready to enter into Inquiry, as it nourable Gentleman (Mr. Tierney), forsooth, did not were by acclamation (Hear, hear.) The House, mean to affront them, whilst he was, at the same in his humble apprehension, had sufficient informa: time applying to them the most pointed invectives. (A. tion already before it, for the purpose of estimating laugh.) 13* he did not think it necessary to say more the merits of his Majesty's Ministers' conduct. They :he yes is of ,not initr ving —at and cen- was that molt :con- rbich tion, : the edge in~;~ iot of re- hrog e de , and jest 1 al ue, 'rile colic} was -allei their vfil4'