Star. — London, England, 1814-07-06 00:00:00

~, After the Noble Lord withdrew, the SPEAKER acquainted the House, that previous to any further discussion, the form was, that he (Lord Cochrane) should be remanded into the custody of the person from whom he had been taken by the order of the House. Lord CASTLEREAGH accordingly molted that Lord Cochrane be remanded into the custody of the Marshal of the King's Bench,—Moved accordingly. Lord CASTLEREAGH said, he was certain there could be but one wish in this House—that of bearing all the Noble Lord could say in his own defence : but t it could not have escaped the House, that great part of the Noble Lord's statement had had the object of ciitninating persons of the highest character in the kingdom. He had not interrupted the Noble Lord, because, in such a case as this, it. was difficult to dis. tinguish at what point it was proper to interfere ; but he did now trust that none of the calumnies uttered by the Noble Lord would be reported elsewhere. If such should be the case, it must be considered as a great and wanton abuse of indulgence; and if it should be followed by notice on the part of any one, he trusted none of those concerned would consider or urge a want of warning as a justification or excuse.— (Hear, hear, hear.) Mr. BROADHEAD observed, it was impossible any person could witness the fall of such a man, as he who had just left the House, without the greatest pain, and much he lamented that in justice to them., selves the House could not pass his case over.— (Hear, hear.) —With respect to the Address of the Noble Lord, he should make no observation upon it. but content himself with following the course he had laid down for himself, and leave the House to act upon it. He had felt it necessary for the honour of the House to call its attention to this case. If on this occasion he advetted to Mr. Walsh's case, it was not because he considered there was any similarity be tween the two cases, but merely to prove that the House had felt it its duty to act promptly where its honour was concerned. In Mr. Walsh's case. owing to some eh cumsrences he was pardoned, yet the House htld, that a person stigmatised by a convic• tine, was unworthy being a Member of the House. Tire present case was certainly as strong as that.— He did not mean to dictate to the House what was fght to be done, but he thought they ought not for a mornel!t to stiff. r a stain to attach to their charace ter or body even in cemplieoce with popular clamour. He sheuld therefore test the case on its own merits, and move a Resoltitiors, es hollows :—.64 That it ap peared to the H .use that Thomas Lord Cochran.. lied been convicted of a conspiracy with others, to raise the price of the funds," M. BROWNE said, the House had heard the s - seech ti.e Node Lord, and the grounds on wbicl lioneurable Gentleman had moved his Lordship': expulsion. It wciaii Le for the House to say whethes e it weuld judge from the evidence, or from the record o f the co ,vicitio merely. 111 what he (Mr Browne) on a f rmer occas on, lied urged to induce the House to review the evidence, aud not to judge by the vtre diet, lie had been led by a sense of justice, because the Noble Lord had been excluded by a rule of Court from ebteinine a review of his case. The very course that hid beer, taken convinced him, that a review of the circa:lnstances ought to be taken by the House. vr if it did not, it appeared to him that they could not determine on the ciretnri stinces stated by the Noble Lord in his justification. It had been admit ted en all hands, on a foimir occasion, that when there was any matter presented to the House to shake its con9dence in the judgment of a Court below, it was its hnunden duty to review the evidence. In this ease the Noble Lord had solemnly protested his in nocence. A Learned Gentleman would tell him that few persons Isere to be found complaisant eitough to confess the justice of their sentence. But from the hasits and the mind of Lord Cochrane, he did not believe he could have faced that awful tribunal and asserted his innocence so solemnly, unless he was in] pressed with the fullest conviction of it. Could any meq say that his mind was made up as to the com plete and positiVe guilt of the Noble Lord ? It was sufficient to shake his confidence in the verdict, and to suspend so penal a motion as that of the Honoura ble Gentleman .(Mr. Broadhead) when he heard a whisper against the manner in which the Noble Judge was s lid to have addressed the Jury. It was too ,nwh, with so few facts before the House, for them to ssy that the Noble Lord at the head of the Court hid nut inoriered in the way described by Lord Cochrane with the course of public justice. The case should be referred, he thought, to a Select Committee to take it ieto consideration and to report upon it. He cu,v no inconvenience arising from this proceeding. He then moved that the statement of Lord Cochrane , should be left rred to a Select Committee, with leave to send fir p ira rs and t xemine witnesses. The AT'l ORNEY-GENERAL said, that, in peiet of form, the present motion differed from that male by the same Hoeourable Gentlemen • but the foundations of Lot motions di ff ered eery litt le indeed. 1 he first vas, because the Noble Lord had been re. foed a neworiel by a rule of Court; but he reheated, that the rule in question did not so operate to the dis. advantage of the Noble Lord. Two questions had been i topeunded to the friends of the N .ble Judge : one sees, why lter he had not cirected the ;:uunsel for the p•osccutit n as to the manner cf drawing up the int:home:it against Lord Cochrane? He asserted that no such thiug was done, nor durst any one have aeproached any Judge to make such an application to him. The vetdict had been arraigned on ar.other ground a for it bad been sated that the Chief Justice could not procure a verdict against Lord Cochraee with havieg a Jury packed and under his influence; eppuinted by en Officer who obtained his situation for political purpoies, order to do this work of ini. cite y. The Jury wet appe'nted by the Master of the Crow., Office, who was rsmoveable, like the Chief listice himself, only in consequence of bad behavioui. Tee Agents ot these d-fendants.were of the most re spectable of ohe profession ; but the Honourable Member wOo had not appeared in his pieces lisid,h:m. self 4t, ended the reduction of the Jury • and no wan could point out where a mo re honourable Jury cook, be ft cud than that of which so much unfoundeteeo e lumpy had th t night beer! uttered. Mr. BRAND said,. he thought, that before' ihri 1 should scud a Member back to kis Constitueots, the should have befere th em the evidence on which t4it of in. conviction rested. In this case s. Ite it peculiarly accessary ; for the case of %IV itstuta c tficught Noble Lord depended on the dress in which De Be renger had arrived at his house. and also on the way in which the Bank-notes the Noble Lord had given • Mr.. Buy came to De Berenger's.hands. Now the Noble Lottl had stated, that it was only within a few days he was able to account, by his wine-merchant, for the notes, and indeed he had now offered evidence which, in his npiniori, the House, in justice to its cha• ratter, ought to examine. Mr. BARHAM thought it no wonder, if Lord', Cochrane should be innocent, that he should look with jealousy to his right hand and to his left. It must be remembered, that one in his situation could. not well be supposed to speak in cold blood. His (Mr. Barham's) conviction of the Noble Lord's in nocence had been gradually gaining strength; for he appeared to have laboured under a great disadvan tage on his trial, in consequence of his conduct hav ing been arraigned by a previous tribunal, unknown. to the law. Besides, he seemed to have been so full of his innocence, as not to have taken common care to secure himself upon the trial. In consequence of those circumstances, and the punishment so exces sive which had been heaped on the Noble Lord, he could not vote for more paul.liment. Mr. PONSONIW said, he never witnessed so much good nature, candour, moderation, and tenderness as had been manifested by the House towards Lord Cochrane ; but he could not suffer the ill-judging coo l duct of the Noble Lord to prevent him from examin, ing with a scrupulous eye the facts which he had re presented, and giving them all the attention which they merited. It was impossible for some not to feel ., offended at the manner in which the Learned Judge , who tried his Lordship's case, had been mentioned ; but it was not an act of injustice to question the di rection of the Judge to the Jury, and it was a common occurrence to move for a new trial on the grounds of mis-direction from a Judge, and he never heard that any Judge was offended with such an application.— For his own part he did not carry his respect for le gal authorities so far as to suppose that a Judge was infallible. According to the statement which Lord Cochrane had read, it appeared that Lord Ellenbo rough had represented in his summing to the Jury that such and such witnesses proved that De Beren ger came into Lord Cochrane's house blazoned in the costume of hiscrime ; now this circumstance had been repeatedly contradicted in the sepretentation made to the House, and truly if the Judge actually made ,uch a mistake, it would contribute to mislead the Jury. With regard to the Rule of the Court of King's Bench, mpch as he venerated the regula tions of a Court of Justice, be was unable to under stand how in law and reason and justice this Rule could stand. (Rear, hear.) Suppose that six per sons were convicted, five of whom were guilty and me innocent, was the Litter to be refused a new trial, in the ground th it he could not get five men, over whom he had no controul, to join with him iu his ap plication. They were told Iron: the highest authority, that it was better for ninety-nine guilty persons to es cape than for one innocent person to be convicted.— No such rule as this existed in an Irish Court, and it had only been lately ititrrdueed in the Courts of West minster, and he should be glid to learn on what fetal.. .cation it cond. Lord Cochrane stated another mat ter extremely important, and though his speech was embarrassed and confused i.i other parts, he appeared , sufficiently den- in that pant; namely, diet he could, prove that the Bank-notes were paid into the hands, of De elerenger, without his privity or concurrence, and i! this representation wai just lie would feel much reluctance in voting his expulsion. He knew it was a matter of extreme delicacy to interfere with the deci- Sion of a Court of Law; this motion was m::,;e on the sentence itself, and how should the House proceed If they revised the sentence, they would din nature of a superior Court ; the House could do no ,trch (Ling, but they were called upon to superadd more punt:A:mem, and he could not, in the present state of the cast, vote to-night for expulsion—(/Iw, Gear.) At liir rate, he hoped the House would at least prise and leave leisure for reflection, 14 it the, expulsion took placC to-night, he could, ot. sleep on his pillow with comPlrt--(1-1ear, hear.) Lord CASTLEREAGH thought it nicesi.ary, for the character of Pat liament, to make up its mind as soon as possible, on thl! principles on which it should proceed in a case of t!:is kind. If this proceeding ere not well weighed, Parliament would be opening a door for others to expect the same chance of clear ing themselves. He had always understood, that by expulsion no addition was made to the ignominy of the person accused; but that the House could not en quire into their guilt or innocence, only that they were no longer fit persons to hold a place in the Coun cil of the nation. He entreated the House no! to de legate to a Committee above stairs the power of in vestigating the characters of the Courts of Law, and that too in a Star Chamber, sitting in secrecy. He trusted the House would see no reason for re-trying', a cause of this description. It would be better to en Jute an individual so charged among them, than to' assume a jurisdiction which it could never exert fur the general benefit. He therefore conjured the House no: to think they were inflicting punishment, for that implied a right of trial. Mr. l'oNsoliav and Lord CASTLERIAGII tactually' explained. Mr. S. WORTLEY would rather vote for the amendment than for the original motion. He had al ways had some doubt of the guilt of the Noble Lord, and he now had more. For it might have been a con trivance of others to throw the blame on him. Mr. BANKES said, that there were only two modes in which they could proceed ; and those were either to reject the motion of the Hon. Gentleman opposite, or to proceed to the expulsion. It Mem bers had strong doubts as to the guilt of the Noble Lord, it became them to act according to the dictates of their own consciences, and acquit ham ; but if they should, they would be acting contrary to the prece dents of that Hone ; for there was no instance of a criminal conviction against a Member, where the ex pulsion did not follow as a matter of course. It was not so much a s a punishment to the individual, as lot the sake ut the character of the House, that it was .nflicted. He saw nothing in this case which should wake them step out of their ordinary course in such natters. The louse was utterly incapable, by any of its known powers, to re-try a cause which had :been determined by - tbe highest Coon of Jurispru fence in the! country ; and would it delegate to a select Committee powers it did not possfss itself i Whatever course Members might be pleased ulti proposed (stately to tab, was surprised that the Hon. A by tbe h A e m tr e l l s d te m d en th t. ey would abando n . that ' dents as to be bound by them t Mr. WHITBREAD C,en only tle b u y : ed with others, wish them c em a" to ou be .ndimo so lisn b . jousrtieicde.io It t re w c a e s N th o a b t i h e e Lo co r u d l , dwhconmbeadtothantcnoncighlut s e r z o h n ib er ted th j a u s s a ti d. ce re t v o the d a c n on w si o d u eri ld n w g erse of all that was distinguished in his professi on, a n d noble in his rank . . He, however, saw great . Ifficul y He (Mr. Whitbread)l eight think the N or blaming the conduct of the his mind was, that the' of prm obTe di Lo ng, rd innocent, without as% that was the case, from the ill-judged defence he had made, wha t . must Noble. Lord was innocent ; ri ß e na gt the - hi' ngod T ee h The verdict , impression on stated if they e feelings of the be the intrinsic value of the faancdts if f e had w see ere me p d ro t perl o be y w h i ro lli t n ig g h t t o t e o rra legb y ttb?e, whole r l the Noble Lord House against him. hisdoubtsHe should strong—for uldvote he might against the ex. pnlsion h a ve been entrapped by others. He ( Mr.Whitbread) alluded to the advice the person who had absconded bad given the Noble Lord not to g o down to the House, and defend himself, on the first mention of this conspiracy ; because if he did, it would be his utter ruin. It was possible that this person might have misled him in more instaoces than one. It it came to a vote of expulsion he would say—Not Guilty. Mr. BATHURST noticed the language held by Lord Cochrane, on the conduct of the Noble Lord, before whom he bad been convicted, in terms of cen . To appoint a Committee would be worse than useless, and declared it was utterly and wholly im possible an enquiry of the nature recommended to them cciild take place. The statement of the Noble Lord, which had &Nil delib:.rately prepared, urged nothing which might not be urged by any person convicted of a serious offence. Many individual., whn.e guilt was proved beyond tLe shadow of doubt, had gone out of the woad attesting their in nocence. The Noble Lord might have a minty:" for asserting that which was not true . His motive for making his statement was to hold himself up in the eyes of his Constituents If au enquiry was made into the case of Lord Cochrane, one must also be in stituted with respect to Mi. Q. Johnstone, tor they could not take upon themselves in this mu to do justice to one, without making the same attempt so favour of the other. The Noble Lord had saki a sys" tematic plan bad been for sled by his political'oepo. vents to erect his expulsion and ruin. He might tave learnt trots his Friend, whose advice bad been quoted, and isito had told him what he said was never attended to. that be was not of such impor tance in the House as to make any party care for his ab,ence or his presence. If the Noble Lord had not called forward those witnesses tiu his trial which were necessary for his ,defence, he bad no one to blame but himself. He had since been able to shew no grounds on which a new trial .ought to be granted. Toe punishment to which he was sen tenced was disgraceful, but not more to than was necessary to punish the crime of which he had been convicted. He (Mr. Bathurst) could see no reasi n for interfering with the decision of the Court, and was of opinion the Noble Lord ought not to continue a Member of that House. Sir FRANCIS BURDETT complained much of the asperity of the last speaker, and .defended Lurd Cochrane. If Lord Blenborough, in his charge to the Jury, had stated that to be proved which was not supported by evidence, the Wible Lord ( Lord Co chrane) had a right to complain of his conduct as he had done. If this were proved, they had a right io say he had beep unduly conv i cted. He vindicated the conduct of Lord Cochrane in several respects, and contended his case had been grossly and cruelly misrepresented by the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Bathurst). The Noble Lord's defence was not like that of a person conscious of guilt, but the statement of a man whose feelings were much irritated, and who was careless of punishment. The statement, he thetip,ht, ought to be made public ; but though the N Lord (Castlereagh) said, our establishments were not in such a state as that it was possible for diem to be shaken by any thing of the kind, but in the same breath he warned the Gentlemen who usu ally attended to take down their debates, that on that subject they must not open their mouths. He (Sir Francis Burdett) believed, on his honour and con. science, that his Noble Friend (for so he would still call him) was as incapable of fraud as any man Who then heard him. He should think himself the basest wretch in existence, if he had not made this declara tion feeling as he did for the situation of the Noble Lord (Cochrane) and rememb ring likewise his for, mer services, which ought at least to have protected him front one part of the sentence—(Hear, hear !) That sentence he thought cruel, disgusting, and se vere beyond all example. The Noble Lord himself ' was the only person he had met with who was not of this opinion. He (Lord Cochrane) when he (Sir F.' Burdett) visited him in the King's Bench had said, if guilty, lie whole of the sentence, and more than the whole had been deserved. All sentences were to him indifferent, as, losing his character, he had lost most the power of bearing his existence under such a load of shame. On this occasion they had made a new crime. Such tricks had been common before; but they had never been vissted as this transaction had been. A French Paper had been published some years ago in the Strand. The forgery was proved beyond all doubt but no criminal prosecution was then thought of. (Hear, hear.). Such an offence was then only punish e d as a m i s d emeanour ; an d in such a case, six months' imprisonmen t wo u ld have been considered a severe sentence. Loot Ciicli rane had been convicted l.n the oath of a liackuey coachman, and on that of a post-buy of the name of Shilling. The latter, it could be proved, had said "he would swear for which ever side paid him best ;" and the former was marked as a bad character among those who were his daily associates. He thought the evidence of these persons who were to receive £SOQ on tl.e conviction of the Noble Lord, (tot that wes the fact), ought not to he credited whets opposed to the affidavit of the Noble Lord himself. He could not bell: tw i t : was possible fo r L or d C oc h rane , w h o couldnn 10 had ever esettioon become to rem a a nsan of probi t y o f h onour , to c h ange on a e,u seclede g objection party to a fraud. He ng the subject to a Se, lect ComMittee, and whatever had been done else wher.e% hp igified that House would net a dd i n j ust i ce toin justice. Mr. W. WOINE s ' as an adjournment had taken • .. . . place in .a similar ease on a former occasion, was wil ling in the present instance to give the Noble Lovd an .opportunity of bringing forward any proofs whith' had n his He don w ht o s u w ld h c ie on h s h e e nt to a i n anyjhonewunmrnimgmheitnntwd,:nsohhtottforofaetmontr.deference to the opinions of others. Col. VYSE considered the expulsion of the Noble Lord to be the necessary consequence of the sentence given against him in the Court of wing's Beath.- The SOLICITOR -GENERAL opposed the mo tion fur a Committee, and defended the proceedings which bad taken place against the Noble Lova. The Honourable Baronet had mentioned the business of L‘Eclair," and asserted, that that of which the No ble Lotd bad been convicted had now for the firm time been made a crime. What I was it now for the first time made a crime by the law of England far persons to conspire, to cheat, and to defraud t denied the truth of this assertion. It bad always bees a crime, and it was a crime which had long been pi nished by pillory. He could see no reason for inter fering with the decision t f the Court of King'sßerich, and must vote for the expulsion of the Noble Lord. Lord A. HAMILTON could not vote for the ex pulsion of the Noble Lord on the rec Ad of the Court of Wing's Bench alone. Mr. WILBERFORCE felt it his duty to bow to the decision of the Judge and Jury by whom the case had been tried. He wished it to be considered, if they took upon themselves to interfere with the judi. cial proceedings in the Court of King's Beath, What a weapon this power ;night place in future times in the hand of a corrupt Monster. (N e ar, h aw .) Thi s argument, be thought, ought to have some with the Hon. Baronet; and when lie veto= what he had heard that Honourable Baronet lay of the House of Commons, he was astonished *at 'he should wish that which bad been decided in a • Court of Justice on oath, to be referred to a - Com mittee up stairs for revision, where in oath could not be administered. (Hear, liar. hear.) Mr. WROTIE.SLEY expressed Isimelt f.proura ble to an adjournment of the debate.' Mr. S. WORTLEY rose to mote an adjourn ment ; but having spoke before it was not in his power to do so. Mr. WRQTTESLEY, who had been about to move whtn the Honourable Gentleman rose, again addressed the House, and moved the adjournment or the debate to Tuesday next. Lord CASTLEREAGII opposed the adjourn ment in a short but animated speech, and call 'upon the Hoose at once to pronounce their judgment on the case under consideration. Mr. W. SMITH spoke in favour of the adjourn. ment. n a it dh f doi of ; as liweoznireferring The House divided, when the numbers were—for o sni dono t :Ile original g t jhneescolt motionmt to vaed th e rt the Adjournment, 74; against it, 14'4; Majority,6B. m t'ehee i t qu esti onmwhoausit rieldinte, .. House aga in divided—For the Motion 140—Against it 44—Majmity fir the Expulsion of Lord Coch rane 96. THE PRINCESS OF VALES. The SPEAKER communicated to the House the following Letter, which he had received from the Princess cf Wales: The Princess of WALES desires Mr. SPEAK.= will acquaint the House of Commons, that she has received from Viscount Cameasion, the Copy of 4 Resolution voted yesterday in a Committee of the whole House, enabling his Majesty to grant cut of the Consoli,fated Fund of Great Britain the annual sum cf Fit ty Thousand Pounds, for her maintenance : and tl.e Princess of WALLS desires Mr. SPI4ICES will es pt..ss to the House of Commons her since.re thanks for Alm eztraordinary and unsolicited mark of its munifi cence. 4, The Princess of WALES at the same time desires Mr. SPEAKEE will inform the House of her deep n. Bret, that the Burthens of the P'eciple should be at all increased on account of the circumstances in which she has been placed ; and that tle crown consent to any addition to those Burthens beyond what her situation may appear to require. That she therefore hopes the House will reconsider its Resolution, fcr the purpose of limiting the Income now proposed tt, be settled upon the Princess of WALES, to the annual sum of Thirty five Thousand Pounds ; which will be quite sufficient, and will be accepted with the'liveliest gratitude, as an unequivocal proof that the Princess of Watts has secured the good opinion and ffutsca ti u of the house • of Commons. " Connaught House, July 4, 1114." The letter of her Royal Highness sea, ordered to be taken into consideration with the report t!;is day. message /MOM Tlll iIIGE2.T. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER. brought down Messages from the Prince Ryge..t, recommending to the House to make good, grants of e2OOO per annum to Lords CoMbernstre :rad Exmouth, as rewards (or /heir public services.-- Referred to a Committee of the House this day. The other Orders of the Day were disposed Adjourned at half-past two o'clock this morning. An'order has beta sent from the Secretary of State to tint She riffs of London, to inflict the sentence or the Pillory Lustlese 4:IIRANE, Stc. on Wednesday, the lOth of August; mid* hip and Mrs. ei.stew, on the ran of Aogue. Accounts, winch may be considered as demi offipl i berntbst‘ received In town, fully continuing the report of the captwe the Laws Anterican (neat& Tibthatsoiviho DAY.—The following regulations are'to be observed tomorrow, at St. Paul's : ihu Minor Canons and their Friemis to enter the Cborob, it% U,. . Leash's Gate, by Nine o'Clock is the Morning., 114 c Aldermen and Members of tiro Caw of Common Count at the North door, by Ten &Cluck. tie koreign Mini.ters to enter rather Wpm Ten, Wader that their Carriages may not break into or interfere with taw Church u o r a c N is r Procession of the Members of the Boum of Pariinsumn and sH Royal Fandiy. he Members of isegis Homes of Parlament to freer the btandfortehezith:Nuk7iiyhm..,:t..,orda.Histropfelleineillitistnpelledlbilli".l I, CORN MARKET, MARK LANE. JULY • We bad no fresh arrivals of any GrOss this inoraiug, end bts4 little businem doing. (4ir pcicee cootisne wise is Monday. A„, •• • haft tar N LOCKS THIS DAY AT MUNE (ruiANIL.. [Woad 11-1-0•40. pi ex. div.--ler_ set t ?Off 4 per Ct. IN 'll—S per Cr. Navy 97$ es. ay. °umlaut, pre.—.Daalt Long Aosta. 34 I Maths India bomb, 1411. iSare..-4.lelkecitter two ca. ss. LONDON : Printed by 4.avaL I Pickett Pieces published there, PA se* star tace•Tfigie