Star. — London, England, 1821-02-27 00:00:00

plir.,,'WE,,- di n Resolution bet what was by tLe pertriis:ibn of rarlissment. As the Resolution now stood, the words :nth compensations as may be necessary to b n as ide in consequence of, and for, any regulations e s t ma y be .made thereafter in that Court." Now be (Mr. J. P. Grant) wished the whole to be altered 14 101 any regulations that may be hereafter no & by Act of Parliament." He should take the y of Moving that an alteration to this effect be idopiedr4Hear, hear). . Mr. CREEVEY now understood what was said to k tMs—that the House would understand more when t hey came to have the Bill before them. As this was saggesticrn, therefore, that more information was le , he afforded, he would not oppose the second read „f these Resolutions, but reserve himself to arso- 1 * et opportunity. At . the same time he did think it ' by no means necessary for this clerk to have any l hanwensation whatever. Mr. HUME considered this to be a very import 19t object. No less a sum than £160,000 per annum i r k paid in salaries to the Judge-Admiral, his clerks,l o gees% and assistants ; and tins, for so poor a coup-1 07 as Scotland, was a very enormous charge. Lord A. HAMILTON concurred very much with his two Hon. Friends, that; upon any general princi ple, the clerk was not entitled to this compensation; an d t hough he should abstain from further obser vation till the Bill was brought in, yet, upon princi ple, he was satisfied that the object of these Resolu ticss was improper. Mr. GRANT now begged to move, as an amend ment, the insertion he had proposed, namely, of these words—after the word " regulations"—" proposed by any Act or Acts of Parliament of the present &i on .". The Resolutions, with the above Amend ments, were read a second time, and agreed to. Mr.CREEVEY clearly understood that, at a future stage of this business, the Noble and Learned Lord was to submit a bill of fare for the intended provi sioes—(tattghter). CORN AVERAGES. Mr. F. ROBINSON rose to bring before the House the motion of which be had given notice, relative to the mode of striking the Averages of Corn, and for the purpose of explaining more fully upon the sub ject. he should move that the Speaker leave the chair. An Honourable MEMBER, from under the gallery. before the chair was vacated, wished to ask the Presi dent of the Board of Trade, whether it was intended by his Majesty's Ministers to grant a Committee upon lie agricultural distresses of the country generally? Mr. ROBINSON said it was impossible that he should know what the decision of the House might be upon that subject; but as his (Mr. Robinson's) pre. sat proposition was only calculated to attempt a pester degree of perfection in the single matter which was its object, and to remove, as much as pos ible the existing defects of the same system, it was clear that it was one which could not preclude the House from entering on the consideration of the ge nial state of the Agricultural Interest at any future ime—(Hear, hear). The SPEAKER having left the chair, and the House being in Committee, Mr. ROBINSON said, that it was his intention to confine himself at present to the immediate subject of which be had given notice, namely, the state of the law upon Corn Averages. He had just stated, sad would repeat it, that there was nothing in the proposition he meant to submit to the House imm inent with the fut,ure discussion of the general ques tion of Agricultural distress, when the proper oppor laity would arrive for it." It was necessary &Alto me that the law relating to Averages was coni: rued in four several Acts—the 31st, the 33d, the ads, and 45th of the late King. The two last, he iglu to state, repealed not positively, but indi- Indy, the two former. He should therefore pro pse, in the first instance, that all these Acts be re sealed entirely, and that the laws on this subject, a their amended form, be reduced to one Act ; nit was obvious that this simplification must be of considerable advantage. The alterations which he %tended to propose in the existing laws were, for the Ng part, founded on the recommendation of the Meet Committee. The principal alteration which be would now propose was in the mode of taking the Averages. According to the present state of the be, the aggregate Average of the twelve Maritime Districts determined the opening and shutting of the pons at particular periods of the year. All the Ma etime Counties in England and Wales were divided Ito twelve districts; and in these districts towns were 'pointed from which returns of the sale and prices (corn were ordered to be made. The total quan tity of corn sold is each town wits cast up, and the total of money for which the same was sold ; and then dividing the money by the quarters, the result gave the average price of that town. These average prices of each town being thus found, were added together, and, being again divided by the number of towns, lave the average of such district. The averages of ie districts, thus found, were added together, and, king divided by the number of districts, gave the scgregate average of the whole twelve maritime dis acts. The Committee would see, in the first place, gat if, instead of this complicated mode of taking be averages, the same principle which was now ap /lied to the towns primarily, and to the districts af terwards, were applied to the districts and towns al egether, the benefit would be very considerable; it it was obvious, that whilst so important a share to present was allowed was given to each indivi nal town in making the averages of the districts, it Bald be in the power of any individual, by a very !ale sacrifice of money, to obtain a return of a Leti tia; and nominal price ; the effect of which would le much more extensively felt during the operation eirbe present system of taking the averages than in tat which he would now propose. He would then /repose to abolish the system of districts altogether, lad to take the averages from a computation of the "leregate amount of the corn sold an each of the wens from which returns were already made, and 'ggregate prices retutned from the same. This "stem would at least reniove some of the Facilities fat existed at present to fi and, and would prevent le repetition of such tricks as the Select Committee r u od le have tak e n pl ace i r f t h e l ast year . H e wou ld t Meese an alteration, which was obviotisly one n ecessity, but which would not affect the proposed bode of takin g the averages. It was known that the Est of d ie twelve maritime districts comprised the ' D uties of Kent, Essex, and Sussex. This district 114`41e no return whatever, but the price of cora was determined exclusively by thit of the Corn Exchange in London. He would propose, therefore, to include these three counties, and certain towns in them, in the number of counties and towns by whose return the averages were struck. He would next propose an amendment in the law which gives the King in Council the power of changing the towns from whence returns were required to be made, upon the represen tation of Magistrates in Session. He would propose to give the King in Council the larger power of leav ing out a town altogether, without the necessity of substituting another, or to add another, according to - discretion. He would next propose the omission of any prevision requiring returns to be made from the inland districts and Scotland. The returns from those places, hitherto , had nothing to do with the making of the averages, so that the absence of them would have no effect upon the system new proposed. The averages of the maritime districts might always be taken as the standard for determining the averages of the inland districts and Scotland; so that the ex pense of returns from the latter places, when of so , little value, might as well be saved. As to the In spectors, it had been represented by the Committee that the Inspectors had not an adequate salary for their trouble. According to the present law, the amount which they received yearly was about £l3, which was charged upon the Custom Duties gene rally. It was true, the Justices in Session, had a power of increasing this allowance out of the County Rates, but it did not appear to have been done io any instance. But it was not fair that the County should have the charge of a process in which the County was not alone concerned; and therefore he would propose the defraying of the salaries of the Inspec tors out of the Public Revenue ; he would also add a provision, empowering Justices of Quarter Ses sions to increase the allowance of Inspectors to csurn which should not exceed thirty pounds a-year. There were one or two other points which he pro posed to submit to the Committee. They were aware that every dealer was hotrod to make a declaration, upon a penalty, one month before that he meant to deal. He would not alter, or take away the penalty, but he would propose that the Inspector should not be bound to return, or the Receiver bound to admit any return, from a dealer who bad not made a dee claration that he meant to deal one month before the time of his dealing. For, there were instances of dealers going about buying up corn for no other pur pose than to raise the price; and hiving made returns , according . to the enhanCed price, and the Inspector and Receiver not having the power to refuse these returns, a false and pernicious report was made upon the averages. In furtherance of the recommenda tion of the Select Committee that the Board of Trade ,should be furnished with greater means of general superintendence and direction than they at present possessed, it was his intention to transfer the appoint ment of the Receivers and Inspectors from the Trea sury to the Board of Trade. He would also propose that the Isle of Man should be restored to its former place amongst the maritime districts—the effect of this would be to take away the facilities of evading the system of taking the averages. Hitherto, the In , spectors were not bound to mate returns of the prices and quantities sold of any but British Corn, the effect of which mode of taking the averages was to ex. elude the sale of Irish Corn, and this was dome by a sort of Custom-hon.e interpretation of the word H British." It would be amongst the provisions of this Bill that all Irish Corn should be considered as British Corn, what sold in the British market, and admitted as such into the returns. He concluded by wowing a Resolution, declaring it to be the opinion of the Committee, that it is expedient to repeal the 31st, SW, 44th, and 45th of Geo. 111. relating to Corn Averages, Ste. Mr. CALCRAFT said he would postpone any Op position to the measure until it was brought forward in the shape of a Bill; he would watch its progress with jealousy. Mr. BARING thought that the present time was ill chosen for the introduction of this measure, as it carried all the appearance of a measure of relief, whilst, in effect, it did nothing towards that end, and thereby increased the anxiety of an already suffi ciently irritated and agitated country. It was plain, now, that the apprehensions of the agriculturists did not arise from the probability of the importation of foreign corn, but a depression of price. He could not, then, see why false hopes should be raised on the one side, and false fears on the other, by the agita tion of a measure which did not justify either, how ever certainly it would excite them. Mr. IRVING agreed with the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, in regretting the period at which this measure was introduced. He hoped that the labours of the Committee would be attended with that benefit which was anticipated from them, although he could not help thinking that the public, and especially that part of it which had loaded the table of that House with Petitions for relief, would find that. their hopes were frustrated and deluded by it. „It was certain that the mode of striking the ave rage*, which had been practised since the last enact ment on the subject, was most inaccurate, and per haps, not in one case could be considered to have answered the spirit of the law, nor to have given the public a true view of the case. When the Committee came to investigate this great and important subject, he hoped it would be released from the fetters which impeded a free progress on the last similar occasion. Mr. H. SUMNER said, that he considered the [ measure one of protection to those who were suffer ing from the effect of frauds, and therefore it ought not to be delayed. However, he had no hesitation in saying that, if. this were the measure which Minis- I Sea intended to propose for the relief of the Agri culturists, it, would be more candid in them to come forward and declare it, and put an end to their delu sive expectations at once. Mr. F. LEWIS said, that there could be no objec tion in fairness to as early an introduction as possi ble to a measure which had for its object the correc tion of an important error. The House should un derstand, however, before they entered hastily upon a measure of this nature, that when the importation price was flied nominally at eighty shillings, it was founded upon the present system of taking the ave rages, so that if any alteration was attempted on the prtuciple of taking them, it should be accompanied by a corresponding variation in the importation price of Corn. With respect to the provision for comput ing Irish Corn sold in the British market as British Corn, he should observe, that in consequence of the isitii.quility of Irish Corti, especially after Isaij liar- , it fetched a very infelior price ; so that Collo- ; dering it permanently w ith th e B r i t i s h C orn for the purposes of taking the averages, would he obviously unfair, as it would tend to give an impression which tie true state of circumstances would not justify. - Mr. CURWEN said, that the country had been de frauded yearly of one million, by the fraudulent me thod of taking the averages which was hitherto in operation. He thought that the provision affecting the Isle of Man was essentially necessary, as hitherto the country had been actually receiving a great quantity of foreign Corn mixed up with the produce of that Island, and sent in as its own. It had been said, that the Agriculturists were not afraid of the importation of foreign Corn so much as the depression of price at home. But he would declare, that the great grievance was the importation of foreign corn. If, after the closing of the ports for four seasons, a scarcity should ari,e, so that they would be opened to the importation of foreign corn, the country would have the whole ac cumulated corn that had been laying for several years ready for importation, thrown upon it, and abso lutely clogging the markets. Nor would the effect of this continue only for a season, but it would con tinue to operate, probably, for the nest four years to come. It had been said, last year, that the importa tion of 1814 and 1815 had no effect on the markets afterwards. He denied this at the time, and he would state, that since the opening of the ports in IblB and 1819, there were 50,000 quarters in the poi t of Lon don, ready, at the first opportunity, to beat down the market. In addition to the evil consequences of the fradu*.ent method of taking the averages, the agricul turist had to contend against this grievance, that for merly, when the farmer had a large quantity of corn in the market above the immediate wants, he found a ready purchaser in the speculator ; whereas, now, the only purchaser was the immediate consumer; and this was a great source of injury to him. He trusted that Ministers would make some distinct declaration as to the extent which they would go in relieving the Agricultural Interest. Mr. CU ItTEIS objected to the introduction of the measure at the present time. Sir E. KNATCHBULL approved of the measure. He felt strongly the necessity of that House entering upon the consideration of the distress of the Agricul tural Interest. He trusted that something effectual would be done, otherwise they must sink farther into gloom and despair. Mr. RICARDO agreed that the opening of the ports at any time would deluge the country with corn ; but this was b y ifficulty which no remedy that could be p roposed that House could remove. The only way in which it could be removed was to keep the price of British corn on a level with that of fo reign produce—(Laighter).—But it seemed to be the with of some to raise the importation price. Suppose it had been raised so as effectually to keep out foreign grain, did the House suppose that any Minister, at a period of scarcity, could enforce the law ? Thus the effect must be the same, however the law was fixed. Foreign corn must come in occasionally, and that coo in such quantities as to render the protecting duties of little avail to the farmer at home. The sure and only remedy for all was, the total abolition of the Corn Laws ; and sooner or later, he was convinced, the House would agree with him. Mr. LOCKHART said, that he would consider it a sin to hold out this measure as one that carried with it the slightest relief to the farmer. Mr. BENETT entirely acquitted the Honour able Member for Portarlington of wishing to take 'airay the protection from the Ag riculturalists, and leave it with the Manufacturing Interests. He had beard many propositions made for getting rid of the National Debt, but he was afraid the execution of these plans would be deferred, from time to time, until the People were no longer able to pay the inte rest of the National Debt, and then it would be effectually got rid of. The several Resolutions wete then agreed to, the House resumed, and the Report was ordered to be received to-morrow. ROYAL SCOTCH BURGHS. Lord A. HAMILTON moved for a Return of Royal Burghs in Scotland that lost the power of electing their Council since 1685, stating the time' when that power was restored, and upon what con ditions.—Ordered. SUPPLY. The CHANCELLOR of the.EXCHEQUER moved the Order of the Day for the House resolving itself into a Committee of Supply for the purpose of post poning it. Mr. HUME took this opportunity of saying, that the consideration of the Army Estimates should be postponed till they should have been at least ten days in the hands of Members. No Member could, in so short a time as between Friday and Monday, become prepared to discuss the merits of those Estimates.— He proposed that the Navy Estimates should be con sidered on Monday first, and the Army Estimates on this day fortnight. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, 'that there would be an obvious inconvenience in postponing the Army Estimates beyond the day zed for them. Some particulars he should be con tent to reserve, but the principal branch must be submitted on Friday. Mr. H. G. BENNETT said, they would not vote the Army Estimates till they were at least a week in the hands of the Members. The minority in that House possessed means of resistance which would be put in force—(Cheers).—The subject would not be so readily got through as the Right Hon. Gentleman seemed to suppose. A discussion might be continued for days on the subject. He, for one, would not vote the number of men b' many thousands--(Cheers)— and Members on his side would resist such a vote to the last extremity. At a time when complaints of in 'supportable distress came from all classes of the peo- ple, retrenchment must be carried to the utmost ex tent. " We wal," cautioned the Mon. Member, with great energy— ,, we will cut down the expenditure on this head to the utmost: we cannot afford the present establishiLteut, and we won't afford it"—Wear, head. The CHANCELLOIt of the EXCHEQUER said,' that to pacify the Hon. Member's temper, titfie would be allowed tor considering the • subject. The Navy' Estimates Would be taken, on Friday; and the Ord name on Monday. Mr. RICARDO wished to know Whether a Papa laid before the House coat:tined - all the Exchequei• Bills issuesi from 1820 to 1821, and abase puts chased by the Rank ? The CHANCELLOR of the ENCHEQUER said; that if the Bank had purchased any they would ap pear upon that account. The Committees of Supply and Ways and Means were postponed till Wednesday. TRANSPORTATION OP OPPENDERS. Oa the Order of the Day for the second wading of the Transportation Bill, Mr. BENNETT' said, the Government ought to turn its attention to this subject, which had ceased to be a punishment. It separated father from son, and husband from wife. He bad his bureau covered with letters asking from him the boon of trans portation. He complained that the method of trans portation was to send out a greater proportion of men than women. Mr. CLIVE said, the greater proportidn of effen ders were males. The utmost our jails were calcu lated to hold were 16,000; besides, the men were better fitted for labour and agriculture. Mr..BENNETT 'explained. Mr. GOULBURN said, be bad stated on a forrner occasion that the great cause of the licentiousness lir New South Wales arose from the disproportion be tween the male and female convicts. Government had done all in its power to avoid that evil.—The Bill was then read a second time, and was ordered to be reported to-morrow. • The Nova Scotia Trade Bill went through a Com mittee.—Report to-morrow. HULL POOR RATER. On the motion of , Mr. SYKES, the Hull Poor Rates Bill was ordered to be lead a second time this day six months. This Bill is, consequently, thrown out. The Annual Indemnity Bill was read a third time and passed. The Report of the African Company's Officers' Allowance was brought up and agreed to, and a Bill ordered to be broughtin, pursuant to the Resolution. COUNSEL IN CASES OF FELONY. Mr. MARTIN (of Galway) moved for leave to bring in a Bill to allow persons charged with Capital Offences to defend themselves by Counsel. This seemed so reasonable, that he wondered what argu ments could be used against it. Mr. LOCKHART would give no opposition to the introduction of the Bill ; but this had long been the practice of the English law; and be did not think the contrary would be beneficial. This would be a most inconvenient mode if introduced at the Old Bailey; where 400 or 500 criminals are often to be tried in the course of one Session. Mr. NOLAN said, this was an attempt to alter the course of justice, and the mode of conducting the prosecutions in the most humane system of jurispru dence that ever existed. Mr. DENNIS BROWNE opposed the motion. Mr. MARTIN (of Galway), cat reference to this opposition from a countryman of his own, said, it only verified the old saying, that " If you put an Irishman on a spit, you'll always find another to turn him round r—(Laughter). The motion was then carried without a division. PARLIAMENTARY REFORM. Mr. WYVILL presented a Petition from the West Riding of Yorkshire, praying for Parliamentary Re torn's. From, the great progress, be observed, which this question had made in th e country since last Ses sion, he had lithe doubt that sooner or later the Peti tioners would see their prayer granted—(Hear, Aear). *or his own part, he would s never support any Ad ministration which was not framed on the basis of Parliamentary Reform—( Hear, Lear). The Petition was ordered to be printed. MISCELLANEOUS. Mr. HUME moved for Accounts of the number of Clerks in the Ordnance Department ; and the Land purchased for the uses of that Department.—Ordered. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL brought in a Bill for further facilitating the business of the Court of King's Bench, which was read a first, and ordered to he read a second time en Friday. Mr. HUME gave notice, that he should move, tomorrow, for a Return of the Effective Force of the Militia at Ceylon and the Cape of Good Hope.—Adjourned at Nine o'Clock. PARLIAMENTARY PAPER. The Navy Estimates, under the three great heads of the Ser vice, amount to £6,382,789 lis. sd. The ordi ry Estimates are divided into three parts: the first contains the Salaries and contingent 'Expenses of the Admiralty, the Navy Pay, Navy, and Victualling Offices, the Home and Foreign Yards, Ortfi. nary Repairs of Ships in Harbour, &c. This part amounts to £1,225,629 Is. W. The second part contains the Estimate of Half--pay, Superannuation., and Pensions, granted to Officers of his Majesty's Navy, Widows, and Bounties to Chaplains, &c. This amounts to £1,152,996 las. 3d. The third pan contains an Estimate of the Superannuation and Pensions granted to Commissioners, Secretaries, Clerks, &c. amounting to the sum of £105,973 16s. 6d. The total amount of these three branches is £2,484,599 Ils. Sd. This Account is exclusive of the Esti mates for the Building and Repairs of Ships, and of the Esti. matei of the Wages, Victuals, and Ordnance for 22,000 men, the total active force to which our Navy has been reduced. The Estimates for the Building, Repairs. etc. amount to £ 0 2,032,036. and of the Wages, Victuals, die. to £ 1,866,150; making a t o t a l amount of the Etimates for the service of the current year, £6,582,789 II a. Sd. From this is to be deducted, amount o f o ld Stores, A 113,400. Leaving to be provided, .C 6,219020 Its. 54. Mr. J. Cairn, a respectable firmer, who resided at Char well-House, Northamptonshire, was shot at last week, between three and four o'clock in the afternoon, whilst cutting hay from a rick : the shot shattered his arm in such a manner that am putation became necessary, and he is since dead. A man of the name of Phillip Haynes has been committed to the County Gaol, charged with the murder. Discovery/ a Murder after the tepee of si.dent rears.—Tuesday last, a man named James Matthews, who resides at St. Agnes, Cornwall, was apprehended on the information of a person named Symms Pryor, who resides at Redruth, and who charges Matthews with the murder of a man named John Ja nes, who was his (Matthews's) brother-in-law, sixteen years since. The following circumstances have been stated by Pryor on oath, be. fore the Rev. Hucu Rooms, one of the County Magistrates In 1804, Pryor was employed as an assistant labourer, by Mat thews and James, at a mine called Crown Due Mille, n ear Tavistoek, in Devonshire. One night, Pryor and James de seended by a windlass into a shaft of the mine, which was about twenty-two - fathoms in depth. Whilst there, they bond a hole for blasting, and Pryor was drawn up, by Nlattheviq. James then laid the match to the train, and called oat to hie com rades to pull him up, as la usual. with miners on such occasions. Matthews ,and Prycr wound up about live fathoms o f the rope, when Mittistrshrt go the'wht&na and desired Pivot. to do the Num . Pryor refused," which Matthews threatened to hooch his brains out if he did not. Pryor Spin leaned, when Mat thee) strut* bide oa the ht arm with a pick-hilt; which timid him to - quit his bold, and James was precipitated to the bostant, and bad his skull so dreadfully fractured that he died in two days dim; Pryor told the facts to his brother, who was a smith on thaminu, and to time other mat, but thief contrived to keep him In a %man' room behind the smith's-shop until a Coroner's Airy had returned a vettliet of ikeldittal heath. Ifr was then induced to conceal the affair, on the ground that Matthews bad a large family. Pryor had never seen Matthews from that time to the present, bat itesaid that he was ab distrewd on neco.int of to concealnwat v .that be could amprem the eir:utormice ao tante Uatthews ins been committed to Baden J.il. s.