Star. — London, England, 1814-12-02 00:00:00

war generally. He was happy to think, that what ever differences may have at a former period existed in that Heine on topics connected with the state of our relations with America and the grounds of the war, these differences had vanished since the repeal of the BrieisfeOrders in Council. He was one of those who, after that measure had been resorted to, consi dered the Americans as the aggressors—(Hear, hear!) whatever might have been the provocations they had received to proceed to that extremity. Neither should he advert !o the extraordinary manner or circumstances by which particular proceedings arising out of the ne gocietioits at Ghent had found achannel of publication. A al ty neuld come for entering into that disscussion —a discussion which would be of greater or less im iMportance in proportica as the final issue of that ne gociation may gratify or disappoint the hopes that were entertained from it. The object of , his motion would met clear of both these subjects, because, whatevermay have been the conduct of the Govern- Meat in these respects, or the opinion that may be formed of it, 'all persons must feel an interest in the actual management of the war, even unconnected with any consideration of the justice of the grounds upon which it had been uddertaken. His motion em braced only the naval conduct of the war against Ame rica ; and that branched out into two other conside rations—one the naval war on the ocean, and the dis tribution of our marine for the destruction of the force orthe enemy on thatelethent—the other the ptepara don and direction of our force upon the Lakes for the ptotectien of our frontier and the maintenance of a maritime superiority in that important quarter. It wield also extend to another subject of no less inte rest--the degree or protection which had been affor eed to the trade of the country against the cruizers slid psivateers of the enemy. These were the three points to which 'his motion would refer, and upon each of these it was his intention to move for Papers which would put the House iu possession of all the in . formation necessary to enable them to form a correct ophtion as to the merit of his Majesty's Ministers in the naval conduct of the war. As to the first point, it must be a matter of surprise to all who entcrtained an adequate opinion of the inarit Sate force of this em. pire, that America should still seem to bal'ance its naval power, and to hold it at bay bn that element, frOm which it had all other means of opposition.— This surprise, wh rtever may be C.e case at present, was particularly just at the beginning of the war, because it was well known that cue Americans had a particular description of naval force, which required a force Of a correspondent description and character to be provided to encounter and subdue it ; and be cause the probab;lity cf a war bad been long appa rent, and ought to have.been guarded against. Mi nisters could not deny Cat they had received timely information upon this subject. When the war, how ever, did break out, and when it was to be presumed that every prep +ration far such an event had been made that the n.tzure of such a contest and a thorough knowledge of the means of tile enemy called for, it came upon the country by surprise, that we had no ships in our possession cetnpetent to cope and con tend on equal terms with those of the enemy.— Time enough had elapsed to allow of every necessary preparation being made to provide for this emer gency. That advantage had not been taken of the opportunity thus affcr !ed, formed a just ground of charge against. those whose duty it was to prepare and direct the naval force of the country.- It had already been explained, by the melancholy results of the contests which had taken place, bow the Ame ricans had succeeded in beating our ships at sea. They carried heavier metal, had stronger vessels of the same nominal class, and much more powerfully manned. The complaint of the country on this head was, that this circumstance had not been fore seen and provided against ; and secondly, that when the fact was ascertained from experience, no effectual meastoes had been taken to prevent a recurrence of such disgraces in future. Any Gentleman who bad attended to the accounts of the different Offi cers engaged, must be aware that almost all the cap tures from us had been made in the same manner.— These captures were certainly not owing to any want of skill or intrepidity in out brave officers and men, who had in every action displayed as much valour and heroism as in any of those memorable occasions in which their maims had been crowned with the most brilliant and decisive viLtories.—(llear, hear!) . From die stsperier weight of the enemy's calibre, thy almost at tha of each action, overpowered their adversaries, and our ships being disabled and dismasted, were tendered incapable of continuing the unequal Thu* it was that such repeated dis grace was brougln, not upon the navy, for the glory of that service was qt t to be tarnished, but upon those who administered' the naval resources of the -country, arid had providcd such inadequate means of upholessig ti,e superiority of the British flag. Whe ther this arose from a reluctance to accommodate themselves totiwnew circumstances of the war, or whether persima in office having accustomed them selves LQ a particular routine, or from whatever other cause it may have proceeded, it remained for the *test Honourable Gentleman opposite to explain.— But from every appearance, as weal as from 'the evi dents: Of the fact* to which he bad alluded, it was ob ./imp, that they had not used that degree of activity in providing for the changing occurrences of the war, which the nature and circumstances of the contest balled for ; that they had not used the necessary diligence in arming and equipping proper vessels ro meat the unexpected (if they could have been unexpected) class of vessels which were to be en countered in t!e American seas. He was aware it had been stated that steps had been taken for this purpose, by cutting down seventy-fours, and by the construction of other vessels of a size and equipment more nearly approaching to the strength a r efficiency . of the enemy's ships. But it w as extre e material that Parliament should be put in possession of au thentic information on this eubject. It was not easy t 6 frame a motion so as to come at it without,' per haps, in some measure L trenclijog upon the limits, be yond which, accotinti of the actual distribution of our naval force ought tatt*to be divulged. He,was aware of the difficulty and delicacy that eeisted en (his point, and had endeatonred 'so to shape ma m d doe, as not to te quire any disclosure whic h ruk.tlit be itnrious to and coricquendfUnveyea the service it saibtibhed, to the enemy. If be had not sacs eded in his object, the Right Hon;'eseatleasen would correct or attune hui motion, an d bit-wait' aerially accede to au alteration proposed by them, which would not. defeat the purpose for which he brought it forward. It could not be denied that such information as he called for was indispensably necessary, in order that it should be proved, if it could be proved, that all the necessary steps had been taken to place his Majesty's ships of war, as to equipment and other prepara tion, on a footing equal to that of those of the enemy. It was no disgrace, he contended, to make changes Suitable to the varying circumstances of war. .1 he greatest military nations owed more perhaps to the rapid adoption of such improvements as had been made by other nations than to their mere physical force or their actual political power. He was afraid that in this, as well as in other ports, the system of Government had been defective. Their great error seemed to be, their having always undervalued the American force. In consequence of this mistaken security, the proper force had nut been provided in time, and by having omitted to adopt such altera tions in the constitution of the British force opposed to the enemy as their established superiority re quired, the Government had laid the foundation Of all those disasters which had occurred during the war. Accord ugly, one of his moti.:ns would call for information as to what measures had been taken, and with what success, to render the British ships, in adequate equipment and armament, sufficient ti contend with the Americans. Another of his mo tions would call for copies of all memorials, repre sentations and remonstrances which had been trans-, mitted to the Admiralty, the Ministry, or the Regent, from the different Ports or Corporations of the United Kingdom upon this head, together with copies of the answers which had been returned.-. He came now to the heaviest and most important charges which he had to make against the Govern ment—the want of a sufficient preparation for carry ing on the war on the Lakes. In treating this part of the subject, he should not go into any matter that could, in the slackest degree affect the character of any of the naval or military officers employed. Every man, who felt for the interest of the service, or the value of character to those who honourably exert themselves in its support, must be sensible of the pro priety of suspending their judgment upon every question connected with the merits of individual offi cers till after the inquiry, which is understood to be determined on, shall have been brought to a close.— It appeared that there had been an entire neglect of the means of carrying on the war in North America. Every Gentleman must know that the frontier of our North American colonies consists of a chain of lakes, for the effectual defence of which it was necessary that our naval superiority should be maintained, particu larly on Lake Ontario. There was one part of that frontier which would require a land force to defend it effectually, he meant the post of Niagara. In conse quence of the loss of the superiority on the Lakes, thou sands of brave lives had been sacrificed and much mili tary character lost in that quarter without our having a secure frontier now in our possession, or the safety of Canada on that side being provided for. Ontario was the Like upon which our naval means ought to have been employed for insuring those objects.— The protection of Canada depended upon it ; and when it was considered of what importance that colony was to the mother-country, what vast pro. petty belonged to British merchants, centered there, and, above all, what had been the loyalty of the in habitants, who last year had defended themselves and their country from a formidable invasion of the enemy, and the recollection of glory connected with its original acquisition—any of these considerations would - be enough to induce the House to institute an inquiry into the measures that had been taken to se cure that valuable Province, and to establish our naval ascendancy. There had been full time enough, still nothing had been done. The war commenced in June, 1812. At that time we bad the superiority upon the Lakes—a superiority which required the addition of a proper number of seamen only to insure it for ever. At that period the Americans had no vessels on the Lakes, they had no naval arsenals, nor any adequate means of building vessels. All the facilities for ship building were in our possession on the northern shores of the Lakes, a vast supply of timber, and every advantage of deep water. If the opportunity of availing ourselves of these supe rior facilities had been neglected whilst the war might have been foreseen, something ought to have been done in the summer of 1812. From the information he had received, he could assert, that nothing what ever had been done during that precious period.— The intelligence of the declaration of war arrived in this country in July, 1812. From this date to the end of the year, not a step had been taken by the Government, either in the shape of effectual prepara tion or wise direction to the persons in authority a b roa d—no activity had been exerted, when even the crew of a single sloop of war would have been suffi cient to make Lake Ontario our own for ever. One sloop of war was demanded for Quebec, but none had been sent. Was any thing done by direction to the Colonial Government to build vessels on the Lakes ? Absolutely nothing. Offers were refused, and the Comment of Quebec broke off with the ship wrights,on account of a sum of £lOOO more being ask. ed for building of a 36-gun frigate. The Hon. Gen tleman admitted, that exertions had been made in the Medway, with timber brought from Canada, he sop. posed.—(' Yes;' was answered from the Treasury Bench). —This cost the country ten times the sum the ves sels would have cost in Canada ? What was the consequences on Lakes Ontario, Erie, and Cham plain ? The consequence was, that the frontier on the first Lake was burnt. It was true that a large ship had been built, which, he hoped, would enable Sir J. Yeo to combat effectually with Commodore Chauncey. On Lake Erie our flotilla, after a gallant resistance, was compelled to yield to the enemy. A Court-martial had sat on Captain Barclay, who was honourably acquitted ; no bla:ne was imputable to him ; the blame rested with the Government, for the armament was deficient. He had guns of eight different calibres; some had no gun-locks, but he was obliged to fire off many of them with pistols for want of locks ! This was proved on the Court-mar tial. But this was not all; there was a deficiency in men, for so Captain Barclay stated. With respect to Lake Champlain, he wished the House to look at the state of the naval co-operation, when Sir George Prevost thought that co-operation necessary ; they would find, fur the reasous before stated, through want of proper means of annoyance, Captain Downie's life was sacrificed. He referred to the dispatches in proof of his assertion ; end asked. to "hose fault' was these failures tq be ascribed, but W the Govern ment at home ? The Honou: able' Gentleman con cluded with hoping, that the House would not let. slip the opportunity of affixing blame where it ought to attach. He then moved, for an Account of the Number of Ships, or Vessels of any description, on Lakes Champlain, Erie, and Ontario, in the sum mer of 1812. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was disposed to concur in the motion, with the ex ception of that relating to Captain Barclay, which involved the character of another Officer. He as sured the House, that the Com t-mai tial on Captain Barclay and Colonel Proctor would be shortly laid before the House. Mr. PROTHEROE would reserve what he had to say until the day bf trial. The answer given I. his Constituents from the Board of Admiralty was not satisfactory. Mr. CItOKER assured the Honourable Gentle.' man, that when the day of trial came, full and satis factory information would be given as to the protec tion afforded by the Admiralty Board to commerce. Mr. MA RRYATT did not think that any Papers which could be laid upon the table could be so satis factory as the statement on Lloyd's Books. From the commencement of the war down to a very late period, the captures were 1175, of which number, 373 were re-taken, or given up, leaving 802 in the hands of the enemy. The Honourable Gentleman referred to the causes which led to captures, pro ceeding, in his opinion, from the number of ships afloat without licence, and net waiting for convoy. Blame was not imputable to the Adariralty Board. At the end of the war, American privateers came into the chops of the Channel, and captured vessels. —These were light sailing vessels, and could easily escape from our large ships. He was induced to state thus much from his knowledge of the fact, and being desirous to rescue the Admiralty Board from any degree of undeserved censure. Mr. BARING thought. the information of the Honourable Gentleman did not go much farther than to admit that the privateers of America came into the chops of the Channel and carried off our vessels, and the Admiralty Board had not the ability to step them.—(Hear, hear).—The Equinoctial gale` alone cleared the enemy out of the Channel. With respect to the great number of captures alluded to by his Honourable Friend (Mr. Marryatt), he did believe that some exertions had been m4cle by the Admiralty to prevent them in future. He condemned the pro secution of the war on the American Seas; and con tended, that if the war had been carried on with vi gour, all these captures might have been avoided.— Such a case of neglect had been made out, that Mi nisters could not deny it; and, therefore, he hoped the House would not separate without passing an opinion upon it. Sir J. YORKE thought, that if the Honourable Gentleman had waited till the information was be fore the House, it would have been bettet. The Papers would shew that the Admiralty Beard were free from blame. Sir J. NEWPORT contended that the Honourable Gentleman ( Mr. Marryatt) had not made out a case to justify the Board of Admiralty. The merely sail ing of the vessels without convoy was no justification. The motion being agreed to, Mr. HORNER rose and said, whatever might be I the ulterior deter mination of the House, he should persist in pressing his facts upon their consideration,' for facts he must take them to be it they stood un contradicted. He could not have believed that any set of men could sit quietly under the charges which he and his friends had found it their ditty to make, and hug themselves upon the hope of shuffling off their responsibility for two or three months by an adjourn. ment—(Hear, hear!) Novel as had been some of the proceedings of these novel times, nothing had evi r occurred that mere astonished him than the course pursued by the Gentlemen opposite upon the present occasion. But we hid lost the time when men would trust their own powers of eloquence for a statement of their case or a vindication of their conduct. Would it have happened—tie would not say in the days of Mr. Pitt, for they could not look up se high—would it have happened in the days of Mr. Perceval— (Hear, hear!) Would any Minister. possessing the feelings of a man, sit still and suffer such proceedings to go without explanation, and such charges without contradiction ?—(Cisterieefrom the Treasury Benches.) 44 I understand that cheering to be a tardy contra diction ; but are we to have nothing more convin cing ? I do not advert to the mere silence of the Hon. Secretary; there are Lords of the Admiralty present, and I will take the information I have received to be true, and assume my conclusions to be true till they are contradicted. But provided Ministers can get their supply, and have as few debates as possible, their next object is to get rid of the House of Com mons, when such a mass of important matter awaits its investigation. They say they will wait for the papers that I have moved for, and offer them as their justification, but those papers cannot be sufficient for such a purpose, they must move for more to shew some additional facts to those that will be elicited by them, before they can have a complete defence and justification. They, however, have to exercise a dis cretion for themselves ; and I only beg them to con sider that this House and the public will sit in judg ment upon the charges that I have made, and the way in which they have answered them." The Honour. able Gentleman then moved for a return of the elate of Sir James Yeo's arrival to take the command upon the Lakes of Canada. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose.—(Load and continued cheering . 1; um th. , opposition.) He said he was in possession of the means ind infer. !nation necessary for a defence, but he had rather the. House should wait for ;he justification of Ministers from the documents themselves. When the papers then called for were produced, it would be seen what those were that were wanting to make out a full and clear case. He should then only take upon himself to give a general denial to the charges and assump tions of Gentlemen on the other side of the House. Mr. W. POLE, on rising, observed, that he might expose himself to the ridicule of the Gentlemen oppo. site, but no consideration should induce him to sit still and hear such attacks as had been made by them. (Hear, hear.) Immediately upon the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Horner) stating the papers he wanted, he was informed that they should all be in stantly forthcoming except one, which it would have been injurious to the public service to prodoeta Teem were a number of imputations liberally thrown out upon Ministers, and papers moved for with a view to establU the charges ; and would it have been decor. ous in them to enter into a justification upon charm which those vet y papers were intended to prove ? The proper time for a defence would be, when a case was made out against Ministers, upon better grounds than the mere reports or assumptions of the Gentlemen of the other side; but Ministers were ready to rest their justification upon the very papers that were to support the charge. He wondered that the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Homer) should have said so much and assumed so much on the round of his *barges being uncon, tradicted, when his Right Hon. Friend had distinctly denied the iustice of them, and begged the House to suspend as opinion, until they had before them the materials necessary to form one. Gentlemen surely ought not to object the adjournment to Ministers, for the fact was, that papers relating to some of the trans. actions had been before the House for some time.--a Those relating to Lake Erie, for instance, had lain f or months upon the table of the Home ; but there were others relating to transactions which it would be un just to derelope the proceedings upon, until those proceedings were ended. General Proctor's conduct was in course of investigation, and could it be posuble to enter with propriety into an explanation of transac. tions for three years until the papers were before the House ? " Gentlemen on the other side make charges and ask for papers. We say we will give them to you, and then they reply, No, you deny it to be sure, but because you won't go into every detail what a parcel of shabby miserable fellows you are I" Such unparliamentary conduct, he must repeat, he nem before knew ; and after what had fallen, he trusted the House would excuse him for having trespassed upon their attention. (Hear, hear.) Mr. TIERNEY said, the vivacity of the Honour. able Gentleman (Mr. W. Pole) had been not only very amusing, but extremely distinterested, for he, who was the least affected by these charges, was the only Gentleman that could not bear them patiently. The Right Hon. Gentleman was only a stander by, but he was ready to volunteer himself as the mime curia upon every occasion. The Right Hon. Gentle. man says, "we have denied the charges, and that ought to satisfy you." Now.it we had said, " you are a set of very incompetent fellows," and they had said "we are very competent," why one assertion might have been as good as the other, because it was a matter of opinion, and each asserted according to his own knowledge and belief; but here are charges in detail, and what do they say to them Why we'll give you the papers, and then we'll adjourn, and by the time you meet again, we'll consider what other papers may be wanted ; then, when we have turned over the 'chapter of accidents, and find that the affairs cf the Continent, and other important business, may swallow up your attention, and so we are saved." The Right Hon. Gentlemen really had not used to be so thrifty of their communications, but to come down with their yard; of pink tape and their alnic.a wag gon loads of papers. Those times, however, are al tered, and the Right Hon. Gentleman tells you you are in an error ; but wait till next April, and I'll tell you when you shall be put right. Mr. BA THURST, adverting to reference that had been made to the days of Mr. Pitt and Mr. Perceval, observed, that the comparison might hold good ou both Gan of the. House. Mr. WHITBREAD said, the whole of the pro. ceedings of the other side of the House denoted a convictioo that they were extremely culpable. At the time some of these transactions •took place, Mr. Canning used to be continu illy complaining of the want of energy in the prosecution of the war, and the Right Honourable Master of the Mint (Mr. Welles. ley Pole) was by his side cheering him. He was a hopefurcandidate, but he had not reacoed the sunny bank of his Majesty's Councils at that time— (Hear, hear,) —now he was the redoubted champion of the Treasury Bench. But Mr. Canning was sent to Lis bon, and the Right Honourable Gentleman bad se. cured as snug a birth. Nature had certainly done a great deal for the Right Honourable Gentleman, but in no respect had nature been so much his friend as in making him the brother of the Duke of Wellington. —He meant no offence to the Right Honourable Gentleman. After all the great display of magnani mity, the affairs of the Continent, and that most pinching of ,all questions, the Property Tax, would occupy the consideration of the House, and Ministers might hope that the present question would be merged in the interest and bustle before the Easter vacation. He did not expect a long-winded speech from Mi. Canning's new Lord of the Admiralty, but the Hon. Secretary surely need not be as laconic in his answers as he was in his letters. The sending two frigates to be cut up in America was in itself an act of such gross misconduct, that Ministers ought to have been prepared to explain it. Mr. HUSKISSON explained, that his Right Ho nourable Friend's (Mr. Canning) statement, was con fined entitely to the outset of the war, and never charged neglect or improper conduct at any subse. quent period. Upon the occasion of the conventioa of Cintra, the House had not considered the merits of the case until the necessary documents were before them; and he thought a similar line of conduct ought to be pursued in this instance. Mr. STEPHEN.—" The Learned Gentleman who submitted this motion for papers, was told that he should have his papers without a motion ; but no, that won't do, he must have a speech ; and that does not content him, but he must have a debate.—( 4 /wer.)—The Learned Gentleman in his opening speech said,—" Give me but the papers, and, if I find I am wrong, I will be the first to acknowiedge and to atone for it." You consent to give him the pipers, you deny the fairness of the imputations which he is dealing out with such a liberal hand, and at,er such a denial, he closes upon you, and says—" I Ix' lieve all my charges to be perfectly well founded." Now, Sir, I will ask if this is consistent with dies: professions of candour with which the Honourable and Learned Gentleman set out ?—(Hear, hear.)-- But there is a strange want of memory, and a cono' quent want of consistency, in the Gentleman on the other side. I remember having heard hum t hat quarter that all Mr. Canning's friends were to te provided [or, because they were Mr. Canning's ti iends ; but we learn that the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. W. Pole) has obtained the appointment, 4 0 'e duties he discharges with so much fidelity and ho- I nom-, because he is the relative of his Grace the DUO