Star. — London, England, 1817-01-29 00:00:00

'stirs. The Noble Lord concluded with moeiog king Address, embracing, as usual, the various topics of the Si,-ecli. Mr. DAWSON said, on tieing to second the Mo. tipn of his Noble Friend, he felt no less his own in capacity to do justice to the subject than he did the importance of the circumstances to which it related, circumstances which could not fail to call forth the united wisdom and energy of that House. However he might have suffered himself to be affected by the gloom and despondency which prevailed in thecoun try, he should belie his feelings it he did not fully ac quiesce in the tone of confidence contained in the speeds., as will as on tie pi aspects it holds out of an amelioration of the condition of the people. It-con tained miny sentences for exciting our s;sisKetion and gratificati. n. Although our situation was com paratively new. the causes of it were by no means misunderstood; and if the country laboured under deep distress, it was only necessary to meet it with patience, firmness, and candour, in order to come out of it with success. His Royal Highness had .hewn that he was not insensible to the distress which pre. veiled ; and he hoped and believed that the peace, to obtain which we had expended so much blood and treasure, was not likely to meet with any,interrup . lion. We had now an opportunity of turning our attention to our native and natural industry, in which we must succeed, unless this differed from any other period of our history. We should then soon be en abled, as we had done before, to transplant our pro , duce to every part of the globe. Respecting the great vi2tory over the Algesines, the House and then country had but one opinion about it. It was a vic tory that had been acknowledged by the applauding voice of every nation is Europe, as it proved that we ' retie ready to extend the protecting shield over all Who were defenceless and unfortunate—(Weer, titer.) The importance of this victory, however, was to be appreciated by the protection it afforded to our com merce in die. Mediterranean, through the blow that it had given to the barbarous nation that had been suffered to exert for so many ages an uncontrouled iphunnaity and tyranny over the people of every European country. It was also the more important as it afeeded a signal and illustrious example of the superior gallantry of British seamen. _lt recalled our meolladon to this bravery all at once, atter being eo long dueled by the unrivalled 'splendour of our Military achievements, and bad proved, that if we bad ceased to be invincible on the ocean, it was be cause we had no longer an enemy to fight with. A consideration which was important beyond all others, WAS that of the necessity of lessening our national expenses; 14 our successes would be of little avail unless we employed ourselves in effecting the strictest economy. This would be the means of reviving our eueligth and industry, and rendering the people again happy and contented. The distress of the Maury certainly demanded the deepest consideration of the House, and in proportion as the people found don zealous in their cause, they would give them their confidence. The duties between the Govern. Ingot and the people ware reciprocal, and were not to be divided without the lOU of national honour or the one part, and respect and confidence on the other. During the war, the people had nobly sympathised in its titivated.* and wilted in its glories, while they cheerfully bore every new impoeitioo that it was Oeussary to lay upon them, in order to bring the contest to a. happy conclusion. But new th.t the voicliad been concluded in a manner beyond the _.eitsitaemsguise expectation of any man, the nation not be unmindful of the borthen that had been lit upon it, but must recollect, that in proportion as the contest has been long and arduous, it must peptic* time to perform the duty of relieving it; and they were patient, the people might rely on not being disappointed in the exertions of his Majesty's lifosisten. In time of peace the people might be More Ministers would not be less ready to diminish the taxes, than they were to ensure the objects of the iree.by-imposiog them. With respect to that part of the Speech which laments the deficiency in the national revenue, he must say, that this was the only part of the Speech Which detracted from the fulness Obis satisfaction is seconding the Address. But if We were told that our. condition is not so fortunate u gould be wished or expected.. we were also told that • the mitimul faith must remain inviolate. Those who SW the suns of carrying the country through all the diffinskies of the war, most any have cause to deplore their confidence. Such a sentiment was both prise end just. Bat he saw no cause to view this de ficiency in doe revenue as a matter of impending yids. it was true that our commerce bad diminished, but this was partly caused by the general poverty in arbiab the war had left all the countries of Europe. It was natural for men to provide themselves with stecessaries before they purchased luxuries;, and when was reisoilecied that the people of the Cootinent Yid its rebuild their houses and churches, and in Woe parts even whole towns and cities, as well as Wrap* the ravages that had been committed on ' 'their 4ariut and Gums, it must naturally follow siesilsey . had out much superfluous money to pa suarish fur.asticles of, our spanufactore—( 144 r.) It was natural that. this sugnation on the Continent should produce similar effects at home; but it did not Cane a total destructiva of our commerce, anJ, as seen as the stagnation was removed, oat trade woeld,be revived. It must be a cause of sorrow tu every feeling mind, to see the distress produced by a !atilt, of unforeseen circumstances; but these cal - ut4ies were not peculiar to our own country; they bad been spread over every part of the Continent ; and,. indeed, what were our calamities, compared •wills those under which the people of the Continent were now suffering, where whole districts bad been waste, and every kind of pnyetty destroyedi— Vur joteraal distresses were produced by the cll. se licks and unavoidable circuinstefices of the Mho niien't, and as soon as. the unpropitious season • had passed away.. we should recover and flourish. The *au point he. should advert to was the usiachiefs sate d ; so t h e . public mind by harangues on topics which erne above the comprehension or . the uulgar. ....(.i euro i ror ,)—B 4 d, indeed, must be our situauon. it• our dunes' .V9llll GO great as CA be beyond relief from•dte wisdom of that tiouse.• and that it cook' . innly be inlieved: bututieltwor G.atiObidgts,Of men of tdocitioa education at (Abaft oi. no pi topple, IPAta wise. *WI atctuased► by blind sell-intirest, deluding their followers into nets of vielttuce which they never wutild bive tom- • • mitted but at their itatlfittiom But what tdpatation could the agitators rooks to theme deluded people for the loss of their liberty 1 The tact was, that the, i VIM like the fanatics of old, Alto went about with the Bible in one hand and ilkesword in the other. preaching up religion under all manner of ~ ,u tt.ges and excesses. Roe House must therefore join most heartily in the sentiment of his Royal Highness re specting the disturbers of the public peace. Let public peace and decorum be preserved. This was the time to check that spirit of revolution, which, under whatever tame it was ptomulgated. covered a design which the inflammatory demagogues were earnestly labouring to effect.—( Rear, hear.)—This was the time to prove that the ebullitions of popular clamour bad no weight with the dignity of the Senate s . . " Non eivhiris ardor pram' jui)intlint, Maw punk oink." Whatever were the difficulties of our situation, we should gain more by meeting them than by lament ing the past, or shrinking from the future. Thus we should Acquire all the respect which is due to a na tion that adopts the best mode of meeting its diffi cilltira, and preserving its honuur pure and Un tarok, rd. Mr. PONSONBY rose.—He began by expressing his entire concurrence with many of those observa tions which had been so eloquently made by the Mover and Seconder of the Address, and like them professei . hiesself not in the mallow degree disposed to exaggerate the present existing distresses of the country, or to add to the present firebug of despon dency. He agreed with them, that tEe fate of the country was at all times. bat now most particularly, placed in the hands of Parliament; and that on the conduct of this House in particular. during this Ses , lion. depended very much what would be the state of the country. The first paragraph of the Speech entirely coincided with his own views, namely, that part of it which related to the late confl•ct with the Dey of Algiers. With respect to the second, vim. that which related to the war in India, he should not at present make any remarks, though he by no means gave any pledge respecting what he should do when the question should hereafter come before ' the douse. The rest of the Speech, and the Address founded on the Speech, referred principally to the revenue. and to the state of the country. On these particular points he felt himself irresistibly bound to differ from the Mover and Seconder of the Address. It was, he knew, unnecessary for him here so repeat that the Speech delivered from the Throne was al ways considered as the production of Ministers. It was proper this should be kept in view in the obser vation necessarily made in Parliament on the Speech, as whatever remarks might be made on it, were solely made, on the ground of its being a Mini sterial'document, and could not therefore be emu dered as having any allusion whatever to the Inns ' trims Personage by whom it was delivered. He merely stated this, because be now intended to sub mit sonic remarks to the consideration of the House on the Speech delivered at the beginning of the last Session of Parliament by the Commissioners, and on' that which bad this day been delivered by the Prince Reent. Previous, Bowever, to doing so, he would i with a paragraph in the former to be read by the Clerk, and which was accordingly read.--." His Royal Highness is happy to inform you, that the manufactures, commerce, and revenue of the linked Kingdom, are in a flourishing condition. The Priam Regent laments the heavy pressure upen the coutkry which such exertions could not fail to, prOduce,,and his Royal Highness has commanded a s to assure yon you that you may rely an every disposition en his part to' ' concur in such measurft of esnaneny as may be I found ccnsistent with the security it the country, and ' with that station which we occupy in gurope."— The House had DOW beard the Trofessioas of econo my made by Ministers at the opening of last Session, and they ware now able to judge, and the country could judge, bow far they were to be credited.— They had last year advised his Royal Highness to, tell both Houses of Parliament that the country was in a lioutiebies anditien, but in no one instance had that bees proved to be true. They had also said they would adopt assassin of economy. It was hs the ismallessiew al the House what measures had been permed last Session. which those who brought them forward thought to be of anemial consequence to the seamy. These measures 'tended to abolish many kinds of mmecessary expenditure, and to in troduce economy, but hew bad they been received by his Majesty's Ministers I Was it not an indis putable fact that they had on every occasion restated them 1 Was it not also equally true that they deci dedly opposed every exertion made to save unneces sary expenses, and resisted one proposal for economy after another, till they were, unfortunately for them selves, obliged by the votes of the House, with the greatest reluctance, to cut down what they otherwise .vould have strenuously clung to ?—(Haar, hrer.)— Whoa such con4uct was in the recollection of the House, be desired to know what real encouragement' there was now to hope that a different line of policy would be followed by Ministers for the time to come? What ground had the country now to believe that Ministers were more sincere than they were before, or that their conduct would be marked with more anxiety for the public welfare than it had recently been ? It was said, that the cusses of these distresses were merely temporary. He professed himself by no means actuated by any wish to exaggerate the distresses, or to give them any, or even the slightest colouring. He was, on the contrary, rather willing to admit (he would say hope) that this, to a certain extent, was true. But be denied that this was the whole cause of our present calamity, and trusted he should be able to prove it so before he sat down. Lase Session we were told by the ;tight Honourable Gentleman (the Chancellor et the liachequer) that sufficient provision had been made to meet the exi gencies- of the year. It was worth whik to notice how that provision had been made up, apd he would therefore du so, taking it in round numbqn. There acre three millions on one account with the Bank, six on another, five millions and six hundred thou. sand, doe surplus unapplied of the'grants for the year 1815, and three millions which the Right Hon. , Gentleman assumed would be the surplus of the Consolidated Fund. But, he contended, there was no surplus whatever now, nay Were it necessnry, he might carry the point a great way further, and say more. Muth had been said respecting the propriety .ut beeping the public loath, need no man could be More anxious that this should be done than he war: Thera was, as he maintained, no existence whatever for the giniing fund ; If It Was tonsidefed as amanita of redeeming the debt. Wien we spoke.of a Sushi.' Fund, we obviously and unqientionaldy Imam that it was something by iokieh . A *kW WU erieMed to lessen his debt. This vies the obvioal.and indirpu. table meaning of a real Sinking Fund, sad he would be glad to learn what other rational definition could be given of it. Surely then, the Sinkirig Fund, which, iosiead of bettering the condition of the country, left ft equally as bad as when it found it, deserved no such name. The revenue had now totally failed, and were they to take the whole of the Sinking Fund in its room, they would still be obliged to borrow a con siderable sum, he would not say two minions, but still it must be a considerable sum. It was obvious to the plainest understanding, that no benefit what ever could result to the country from ten millinne being taken from the public debt on one page, by the operation of the Sinking Fond, while the same sem was added to it on the other. While such was the real nature of the case, he begged to ask how it was possible for Ministers to assert, as they had done last year, that the revenue of the country was in a nou rishing condition ? and now, when they saw the total destruction of the revenue, how could they declare it had arisen from merely temporary causes Such could not certainly have arisen from a sudden tran sition from a state of war to a state of peace. The war ' undoubtedly, had been long in its continuance, and bad been attended daring the whole of that con• tinnaace with an unparalleled expense. Still, how ever, no man who dispassionately viewed the sub. jeer, could admit that the return of peace had at once produced this dreadful mass of evils. It was eqnally worthy of remark, that at the time this Speech was delivered by the Commissioners, the country was in a state of profound peace, and was so still.-- On the one occasion our revenue was described as nourishing, and on the other as having greatly failed. Now, were the cause of the calamity a mere transi tion from war to peace, why, one might naturally ask, had the calamity not been in some degree alle viated before the present period ? Twelve months had elapsed since the first speech was delivered, and instead of amelioration, the country was a thousand times worse. This could not be the case were the cause a mere transition from war to peace. It became therefore, the House to be extremely cautions in de livering_ their opinion respecting the existing -distres ses. He, for one, decidedly condemned the . idea of their arising from temporary causes, and should have no hesitation in thinking the House gutty of at tempting to delude the people of the country, were they to give that as their opinion. He knew that it was morally impossible for a British Parliament to act in that manner, and were they to do so, then be was persuaded, no intelligent individual in the coun try would believe them. i'he real WWI of the dis tress were, the in./ wens' debt and taxation of the country. It was by these means the people were' so dreadfully borne down as they were at present. That was the great leading cause elf all public privation. When, therefore, we presumed to exhort the people to exercise fortitude under the trials they were called to endure, and to be patient while they made so many sacrifices, it was surely the duty of the House of Commons to speak the teeth, the whole truth, to the people, and not attempt to.blind or delude them by a false statement of what were the real grounds of ;hair calamity, and it was equally the duty of the House so shew the country.that they.wete determined to act as the Representative, of such a nation as Gnat Britain were bowed we act ; that they were 'so Ireagei to be put off their guard by the promises of Ministers, but would, by rigid economy, shew they felt, as Representatives ought to feel, what was their duty, and would manfully and conscientiously dis charge that duty—(lieer,iter.)—Day after day had promises of economy been made,. but the painful ex. perigees of the country deosoostrated-how little inten tion there was to perform these promises. This pr ticularly led him to think chat by adopting the Ad.' dress as now proposed, the.Houw would be only de luding the people, and throe exposing themselves to the danger of ewer hereafter being blamed by their own consciences for a dereliction of duty. Much had been said respecting the attempts made by some in dividuals to inflame the public mind, by stating cir cemstances in aggravation of the present distresses, which bad no connection with the real causes. For himself, he felt confident that do man could retires ally charge him with having ever in the smallest de gree, directly or indirectly, given any countenance to such inn our. story desigos—(Hear, deer)—and be trusted be never should; but this be knew, that if the House wished to give, the people any Confidence is what they did, it was only by shewing their deter mination to do their duty, that that confidence could be produced—(Hter.)—lt was only by skew ing that they would uost to no class of Ministers, whatever party these Ministers might be of, but would themselves, with all that attention, anxiety, impartiality, and a love ot justice, which as the re presentatives of a mighty empire they owed to their constituents, reamine quo and correct whatever abuses they found to exist in the public government.- -And indeed it was impossible that as Representa. titres they could be tom to themselves or chair coun try, unless they manifested a coustitutional jealousy over every Ministry which might exist in the country. Nay, he would carry the pint still farther, and say, that they were bound t. act so, if they had any wish to preset ve the people in due subordination, and in good ostler. The people naturally looked up to the wisdom and energy ot Parliament, and it would be painful in the extreme that die good they expected from that wisdom and energy, should be withheld hom them. In looking still farther into the argu ment respecting the temporary nature of our calami ties, one naturally supposed from their being called temporary, that Ministers hid strong expectations of some relief. Now, he would ask, where were the resources from which such relief was to come e Was it from the manufacturing interests? Alas! the paint ul experience of thousands demonstrated the ruin of these interests. • Was it from commerce? There were in the House many commercial men, but was thereon of them who would say, that he erstertained the smallest hope. of an improved state? Looking around, the prospect was equally gloomy in every direction. No improvement- was to be hoped for, unless the 'House did their duty by feeling sincerely for the people, mid carrying that feeling into prac- 1 tice.—(Hear, hear).—Mintpters bad now declared their intention to reduce the expenditure of the coon- try. He sincerely wished they bad begun that reduc- h.ti tide a little carboy, es they might more confidence to themselves hot they now unfortunately had. The , fats long as they could, and wher reboot to assemble, they had then bey had they not began sooner He co, it was the dread of meeting Part of their own, that made them ni work. They remembered the ( lis t takes place last Session, and the ci these discussions had produced, an, them again, they now began to ref prefer, he would ask—was it affaws of the country should be tru , of such men, who had no wish w; inpensive establishments when no Isatt on the contrary, %hewed every to attain, if not to increase them. Besides, be was at a loss to know had not been earlier assembied. Mi known that the early meeting of general wish of the coutrry, an 4 same could have been sustained I gratified. Had they been sincere , of economy and retrenchment, the , portunitv of proving that sincerity calling Parliament together, and to carry these professions into pearl glued, that whatever advantages demen who were of his opinion speedy assembling of Parliament the great inconveniences they shim te, and therefore resolved to post as they possibly could. The debates lion seem to have given them some therefore prevented these debates , some to them as long as they coup —Feeling' these things very str( the absolute necessity of the Hoot every exertion to secure the confidence be had prepared an Amendment, be begged to say, that it contained despondency, or exaggeration, but statement of facts, and a declaration House. should it adopt the A, come to a determination to thaw out delay to go into the state makenU that investigation which cewsequired. Before reading th, !called on the House to consider which they were now particular) duty they were now called to dischan The nation was at this moment House with an awful and indescro Every eye was directed to their their discharging the duty whict them, in the manner which they secure the love and affection of the they to act in a different manner— , the country that they still wished continued, then indeed would every confidence, as he was pefsuadedl—, deny and discontent succeed—and, that want of union between the Re their Constituents would take place, predwative of the moot unpleasant his Autendasent be unforteleitly trusted thit a Noble Friend of his. .made a motion for a Committee , %la the Natidaal Expenditure, would his motion. It had unfortunately *awe of Ministers (he meant by eersseei!e they bad shade use onf-4 trusted, in the event' of this being k Friend would revive it. The Hon. Concluded by moving, that the be adopted in that part of the Address to the finances and distress of the' to Teat we have sees with the deepest flharrammeass et our asticalture, nianufactures the ehrsileg delideney tat the Revenue, and th factruming distromes of in classes of his Pets. 'That we are wining to indulge the hope eiey be found le part to have originated from remperary nature, and that some alleviation dead by the coutinuante of pm, ; but " dirge our limy ID his Royal Highness, imastan a moat dangerous delusion, were Mot sue opinion that the pressure that now the lISIMWOM of the country is much more ruses, mere severe in its virtu', more de tames, and more difficult to be removed, prevailed at the termination of any former That we are firmly persuaded that'' them mad fonitude with which all ranks , dllieulties under which they labour win condole, maim seek burthem as may be found ind•spensf the reaveidable exigencies of the public service, Yin this disposition, it is itscunibent an c and vigilant camels. of its powers to prove )eels that the sacrifices winch it may be the make, are strictly linked to the real necessities , r That utile we acknowledge the gracious neenced M his Royal Highness. Speech " menet help expressing our regret that his set have been sooner advised to adopt measures gid wienomy and retrenchment, particut • Military Estehlislissients ; that a ',romp: this and every other branch of our expel. lithful Cummuus must naturally look as ' the sellerinp and redress the grievances Judy sumplaht, and that to ebalile them, Highoess by their advSce in the perbalttalicv Measly called for by Ow present otuation will lose no tune in Instituting a strict in, the nation." Such *ere the views he wish adopt ; and he trusted, from a set themselves and the public, they w Mr. 4, BATHURST next rg that the Right Honourable Gen' last could not but be aware that comparison whatever between the Speech of last year was delivered The distresses of the country wen present very great; but he thong) unjustly blamed for net reducing sooner. Any man at all acquain blishments were necessary in a co every point of view, as this count that reductions were not the wt tbat it required tune and oppon what reductions could be nude, Au they were - to be made. (Harr.) that. Ministers could say, that tr. ment such and such an estaliiislil exist. Ministers had, in fact, Amendment of the Right Ilime wished them to do. Th.y had La,' the business of reduction iu their place it, where it constitutionally hands of the House. The Plitice, livered this slay hum the Tluone, ight theft hare s url horn the peopl ilsyn They had put t off when the Hous w n en begun. Nos sl y -le could only sa ih , t Parliament, not a ws.4 ri now commence th e discussi-ns which had he consequences *hies 1, and, afraid to meet :n reduce. Was it then it reasonable that th- e trusted to the hands ,h whatever to decrease no longer called for rery inclination at itagi tem ?—(ll,tor, hear).....- mow why radiomen.: 1. Ministers mast ha,. of Parliament was ti.e , and that no inconve. ned by that wish being erre in their professi on , t, they had a fair op. icerity to the public by nd speedily beginning practice. But h e io ta . get he and those Gen- pion might see in t h e 'Anent, Ministers saw y should be exposed o postpone it as long : debates of laic S-s. 1 some alarm, and they tes from being troubl e . ' could.—(lieor, /tar), strongly, and leelirg louse endeavouring by infidence of the people, lent, *respecting which 'coined no language of ri, but a plain honest 1 [oration by which the Amendment, would i hew itself ready with. 1 to of the nation, ar..l 1 3ich the urgency dee i g that Amendment he 1 sider the situation in 1 adarly placed, and the 1 discharge to the public. lent looking up to the 1 describable anxiety.— ' their proceedings. By Phich now devolved on ley ouuht, they would f the people; bat were ler—were they to shee hod the delusion mbe every claim to public tdedl—be lost : despor- —and, to say the least, 1 se Representatives and s place, which would be , t aslant effects Should s niately negatived, :2 I his, who had last year 3 ittee to • make enquiry 1 e, would again revive s rely been lost by the in- . by Abair influence, the . of) : -.(.4 Isarg4,)hat be 1 being lost, his Noble ; . Hon. Gentleman then - 4 following . Amendwrit I Address whirl related • the country : 1 aunt ecowern the eaubwit i wootactures unicorn/erne ; ; 1 ue.anci the eaczarupled aid • hie Majesty's faithful wit- be hope that these Moon • 4 red from thcumstalsois of a I tvlation of than way Isal.N. 1 but that we should ill dei• i is, and be guilty ot Sante , were we to coaxal use 1 it DOW weighs SO busily 01 la more extensive is its opt. i *re deep and grutrral in is I owed, than that winch 11" Willer war. I bat the 'Arne ezemrl.ry p) t maks have hither to borne ~ y t rill continue to support thra i d ind•spensibly tiecnflary ilk service, but that to nai • • 1 an this House, by aW. re I to prove to their irlios.v.S' 1 lay be their painful duty t: I neccasities of the I,tate. • I 4 gracious dispetto.3 32. tech taint the 1 Mr., *' I a his Royal Hightv...s she st measure. of :tae :SIOS , ' • 1 ilCUltf:y With r% .1 . :11.P•' trop: :.rid t2:C . ..:1/: t. .il ::t7 ' espri.si;ttsr••, his :r,"• 1 '". ilk as the tip! !t,re .., re • [ices of V. lice, :Le Fs ••; 's - I he:waives to as,tss ht •l , Ft .rmance 0 • jvy 44 1•, moon of rt. , . coa.'.l - , ' Ice inquiry it:to :Lc 'ter .. I wished the Rotate r a sense it tl,eir duty L !y would ad-pt r en• J :t ruse. lie nbvtre. i 7retilienhan who 5 P' that there es sted I 1 the period when , c' 1 tred and the rnes n I were, be admitted, 4 1 sought Ministers re i ink their eitablis::: 7 :el 1 sainted with what es:. a country so gree , nintry W4b, IIV;S: k: •• woe k of A Mal e: )portunity to consi ,, le, and in what etas., .. r.) It WAS illl; , ' ,4 ''' ' L iroin this or oat sr oiishtlieNt *h , ii C....trc • act, procctairal 4' i lossoLrable Gentle' I Lad nis away s - - 1 " - * len o wn hand-, buz a i l t l i y ,e o , u i g ni, h : t: s l e s ez ir , : 'alone, had Etna ' s •