Star. — London, England, 1808-01-22 00:00:00

■ whicie instead of being mstter of ccngratula . tion, was to him the subject of tile greatest possible pain. la was easy to perceive that its great object was to impress the public with the idea, that this was not the time to make peace. It had been his constant object, from the beginning of the contest, to bring about this event, and he had no hesitation in now giving it as his opinion, that negotiation had not always failed because France was in the wrong, and the Powers with which she negociated in the right. —As to our relations with Vienna and Peters burgh, he would not speak of them till the pro mised Papers were upon the Table, but he conten ded, that if the principles of common sense were applied to the present conjuncture, a more favourable opportunity could not be hoped for, of negociating a peace with France. He was far from wishing to yield, as it was called, to France. But he wished that Ministers should yield to the dictates of prudence; and, above all, that they should yield their asperities, and that, while they complain of the acrimonious expressions of France against us, they should forbear provoking them. Of the Orders in Council he should only say, that they would be productive of much dis tress to a great body of the people. In consequence of this distress, they must lay their account with hearing complaints, and these complaints, instead of being repressed, he was of opinion, ought to be en cou raged ; because, if they were stifled, they would vent themselves, perhaps, in a way less constitutional than by petition to the Legislature. These complaints would he louder and more frequent if it was under- stood that Ministers were resolved upon war. He , Was not sure that peace could be obtained, but at any rate negociation ought to be tried. He wished rather that the country should perish, than that it should submit to ignominious terms ; but he deprecated all attempts to shew our capacity to carry on endless war. If we must die, said Mr. Whitbread, let us die manfully and with glory ; but do not let us be told that death is impossible. He concluded an able speech, which our limits oblige us to curtail, by pres sing the state of Ireland on the attention of Ministers. Mr. CANNING observed, that the line of argu ment pursued by the Gentlemen on the other side, who resolved not to call for an immediate decision on a question in which they said all mankind were , agreed, while they wanted time in order to marshal arguments, to persuade the small portion of mankind la that House, rendered it difficult and embarrassing to animadvert upon their reasoning. In his view of the measure, to which they seemed particularly to ob ject, there was no occasion to detain the House long on the subject. Yet, as they had stated the course which they meant to follow, it would be but fair to point out the way in which their arguments were to be met, and the outlines of the justification of his Ma- jesty's Government. The Honourable Gentleman on •, the other side started a whimsical reason for not enter- , ing upon the discussion to-night, namely, that no previous communication of the speech had been made to him ; but that, however, had not been the usual custom of late years ; and it was rather extraordinary] that he alone, of all those who had for some time held 1 the situation which he was now understood to fill, should be unable in one day to make up his mind on facts which were known to all the world. For his re- I fusal to enter upon some other points his reasons were I satisfactory, for, with respect to Russia and Austria, promise was certainly made to lay some papers , the table. On this, however, the Right Honour- I (e Gentleman seemed to comprehend the promise . a larger sense than was warranted. It was not meant to produce the whole of the corrrespondence 'pith respect to the Treaty of Tilsit. The Speech ly promised the official Notes between the Govern. silent and the Russian and Austrian Ambassadors, relating to a certain point. The Right Hon. Gen tleman deferred his opinion on this till he had ascer tained from the Notes whether Russia was in a con .ion to mediate—but he hoped that in the mean !me he could have no objection to concur so far with address under this qualification, especially when recollected that the payers re'ated, in a great mea sure to the settling a basis—a subject which occupied •hree months in the late discussions at Paris. Whe er Austria had assigned any reason for breaking off connexion with this country, would appear from papers—but at all events, the Right Honour le Gentleman could not surely refuse to concur a war which was entered upon by an enemy who ty have declined to assign any reasons for his conduct. As the Right Honourable Gentleman had deferred decision on points where information was expected, he deferred it c,n those where no information was )mised and with respect to which judgment was im :diately called for. He could not conceive why he ild not now make up his mind or. these latter topics. to his motion for papers with regard to the Copen sen expedition, he could not be positively certain it he might not move for papers that might possibly granted. But he must state, however, that such ipers as the Right Honourable Gentleman appeared consider necessary, to remove what he seemed to ‘ink a stain upon the character of the country, could be produced—(Hear, hear ! from the Opposition). i said, that he saw no reason for withholding the .iculars of the secret intelligence, and that he did . know that exposing the thing must lead to. the :posure of the person. But admitting the great re onsibility that attached to Ministers on that head, .1 - were resolved not to betray the confidence re- I )sed in them. That was their determination—be- I ides the allegation in the speech, their justification rested upon - known facts. But if from their refusal should, as had been stated, be held up to the exe-1 aims of all mankind, and exposed to disgrace el ignominy, hard as that lot would be to those io were as alive to a sense of shame as others, yet' that they were resolved to submit, and that penalty they would pay rather than betray the source of their secret intelligence. If ever there was a period cf the eorld when men might act on secret intelligence, without l.ing com'.lled to betray the source of it, is was the time—and even in cases where men might Ave acted with the prospect of being able to produce toculeents for their justification, subsequent events might render it impossible to have recourse to this means of defer ce. Was this a time to betray the sources of secret intelligence, when the whole Conti nent was in the grasp of France, and when Bonaparte ight drag from the very capital of any other power ie persons en whom his suspicions might fan ? Tem there no situations in which men might act with it the production of documents ? When it was known at there was scarcely a Court on the Continent where we had a Minister—when the power of France extended as far as the map of Europe—was this the state of things in which it would be prudent to cut of the sources of secret intelligence ? Was this a time when those persons who from zeal, fidelity, or worse passions, might be induced to give us intelligence, ought to be exposed ? Were they to be told that they could give us information only once, and • that for that they must pay with their lives ? This could not be, and therefore we must act without communicating our documents, or cease to act altogether. But if there were any doubts as to the designs with regard to Denmark, they ought to be removed by what had happened with respect to Portugal. Thus far he would tell the Gentleman on the other side, that in July the same information had been received, of the intentions of the enemy, as to both Powers.— The Ministers had therefore two duties to perform, and from the conduct that had been pursued with respect to Portugal, a judgment might be formed, 'whether they were likely to proceed with any unne ! cessary severity towards Denmark. An expedition of the late Ministers to Lisbon had • failed (No, no!) and therefore was not animadverted Upon. If he had a failure to plead, perhaps the expedition of .the pre ! sent Ministers might perhaps also have escaped obser- ' : vation. The Ministers had profited by 'the example cf their predecessors, for there- were examples -to be avoided, as well as examples to be followed. The same policy had by their predecessors been adopted as to Portugal, that they had pursued with respect to Denmark ; but a failure in the former case, had pre. , vented all question. But it was painful to follow this. i course towards Portugal, although it rnightaperhaps, with justice have been followed. But suppose an alliance had been proposed to Denmark, and that Power had been persuaded voluntarily to deliver up its fleet the whole wouiJ then have been applauded. Yow this was precisely what was done with respect to Portugal. They had always given information of ; the demands of France, and requested toleration. We might say, that if they complied in the least, it would ; be considered as an act of hostility, and resented `as such. This might be just, but it would in this case have been harsh and cruel. It did occur to Ministers that is-was possible there might be treachery. in this ; but they thought fit, upon the whole, best to run the !hazard, and they had no reason to repent their confi dence. It would not have been politic to send an expedition earlier to Portugal, unless they could have done one of two things—either persuaded the Court to abandon it, or find out some means for its defence. It did not appear that any force that could have been ' spared by Great Britain could have defended it ; but while Portugal herself saw any chance of a cotnpro i • wise with France, and as long as a solemn as surance was given, that no demands of France •, would induce the Government to injure , British i subjects, or their property, it appeared proper to give them every. indulgence that could be allowed.— These engagements were coupled with assurances, , that nothing would, in the mean time, induce that IGovernment to admit a French garrison, . or to I give up the fleet to Bonaparte. A secret Treaty to i this effect was - onclud in October, every tittle of which had been felfi on the part of the Portuguese Government. .True it was that, on one occasion, the Prince had departed from the terms of the Treaty , so far as to detain a few persons, who had not availed : theniselves of the permtssion to withdraw, induced to lit by promises of torbe.trance on the part of France. IThis infringement was immediately resented. During this time a French force was advancing into Portugal, 'but without the knowledge of the Prince. By whom the fact had been ccncealed from him, it vas unne cessary to mention ; but as soon as the Prince got notice of it, he immediately returned to the Treaty, and, with small exception, adhered to it strictly, of which a proof appeared in the surrender of Madeira. Perhaps it might be said, that the confidence reposed in the Portuguese Government was almost ridiculous; but in looking back at what happened, he saw no rea son to repent of any step which the British Govern ment had taken in the affair. But it was curious, that those who assailed Ministers on the ground of violence with regard to Denmark, should attack them on the ground of delusion respecting. Portugal. But just as it would have been, if the cases had been re versed, and if the delusion had taken place with mud to Denmark, and the violence as to Portugal. ' Ministers acted better—they employed force where there was enmity, and gave their confidence where there was every reason to believe that all was truth and fidelity. The situations of Portugal and Den mark were besides extremely different—it would have taken six weeks at least to have brought an army to Lisbon. But the French were ready to fall upon Holstein, and the result would have been a compro mise to deliver up the Danish fleet to Bonaparte. It was impossible to negociate without a force at hand, to counteract the force of France. They were there fore under the necessity of committing whatwas called an act of hostility, because it had been declared that the first ship of war that appeared in the passage be tween Zealand and the main land, would be consi. dered as such. But if they had been deterred by this,- they would have been ridiculed for their ferbearance, as ia the cafe of Portugal. Bat this transaction was not wholly without pre ced:nt. -Among those who objected to it there were s- -me who had a share in the taking of _Mitleira,, kik 1801. That was as severely felt by Portugal at the time, as the attack on Copenhagen was now felt lay Denma:k. Yet it was justifiable, and appeared so tok Portugal herself afterwards, though the necessity wd by no means equal to that in the case of Copenhagen. This, then, would be the course-which they Would adopt in their justification, with a conviction that their conduct was not only justifiable, but that they had acted in the best manner for the service of the country. —With regard to the mediation of Russia, he was ready to enter upon that topic either now• or at a fn._ ture opportunity. Neither the temper, the power, nor the means of Russia, were suited to such - 'a ram. pose.. Ministers even thought that they had a just . ground of hostility against her, but with a feeling very different from what had been imputed - to them, they resolved first to exhaust all methods of concilia tion with regard to powers which had -.to long made common cause with this country. The Declaration of Russia was as unexpected at Petersbiirgh as it was in London. No angry discussion had taken place. with the Court of Vienna, nay more, that power was not even prepared to move, great as was the occasion for it,. Strictly speakin there was no negociation through the medium of Austria, nor a(ly distract offer C fro ou m nt Tall Stahrem nd ber ; a r sonal authority was required. g dsomething,ho w eve r great h i s than re s P h his t Pe " fo r The Right Honourable Secretary then proceeded to state, that no remonstrances had been received from Prussia. Every hostile appearance on her part was ex torted by France, -and so understood, and ho should be sorry that any acrimonious expressions should be used with respect to her. An insinuation had been made in the Mani/ear, that Prussia must have given the secret intelligence to ths country. In justice to Prussia, he found himself called upon publicly to declare, that this idea was wholly void of foundation. In justice to the late Ministers, he stated that the ex pedition to the Dardanelles had been undertaken at the request of Russia. As that had not succeeded, the cause of war with the Porte had ceased. A ne gociation with the Porte was entered upon, and the only difficulty was the admission of Russia into the Treaty. In the middle of this the Russian Minister left Constantinople, and then a treaty was concluded by the Porte with France. As to Swe den, subsidiary negociatiOns were carrying on with that Power, which would be laid before the House when finish ed. With regard to America, as no right had been claimed by Great Britain of searching ships of war, satisfaction was offered for the affair of the Chesapeake. But Ministers had kept that affair distinct from other matters in dispute, while the Americans endeavoured to blend theta.—He at the same time acquitted of any serious blame, the gallant Officer who had the command on the American station, as his provocation was extreme.— As to the policy of the orders in Council, all agreed that there must be something of that sort, and the difference was only as to the degree, Nvhich was a question of inferior importance. It was proper to dim other powers that Great Britain might be formidable as Bonaparte in some instances, though he admitted that our having a giant's strength was not a reason why we should use at like a giant. It was good policy also, to prove to Bonaparte, that the se paration from the Continent, which Le thought must be annihilation to Great Britain, would only be the source of more formidable efforts. This much he considered himself called upon to state, even in the present state of the discussion. Lord HENRY PETTY then rose, but from want of room, we can only give a summary of the principal points he touched upon—whatever merits as to stile, the Speech ascribed to his Majesty might possess, it wanted the more vulgar but more important merit of a full statement of facts. It was a singular instance to be in a state of war with a power against whom there was no documents to prove a hostile act. The only reason stated for refusing information was, those who had communicated the intelligence would be thereby injured. But all the mischief that could be occasioned by this had been done already, for Mini sters had in a public declaration stated, that they had intelligence as to the secret articles of the Treaty of Tilsit. It was extraordinary in those who had, about a year and a half ago, exposed the Ministers of diffe rent Courts to animadversion, by their communica tions, to be so scrupulous on this point. One might !suppose that they had repented of their conduct then, had it not been that, for the sake of rendering the narrative more glowing, they had when there was no call for it, stated facts in the declaration in answer to Russia, respecting the conduct of the French to Prussia, which they could have had only by secret intelligence. With regard to the expedition to Lisbon sent by the late Ministers, it iv'as•tarious enough to hear it said, that it had failed, Merely, beeltasc its object had been attained withdut the*Violence employed against Denmark. If Lord StNincetit had proceedial as they had done, where would now have been • their golden dream as to the Brazils ? He wished for no better parallel than the instructions which- had been . given to Lord St. Vincent, compared with those. to Lord Cathcart, and he wished the Right Honour. able Secretary would' move for them. He con tended, that the principles of right and wrong were to be considered in politics as well as in philosophy, and on these they must reason generally till a par ticular case was made out. It became those, he said, who checked petitions for Peace, to take care that no opportunity of negotiation should be let slip, merely on points of form. We ought to exa mine with jealousy into the subsidiary connection with Sweden. He agreed in the propriety of keeping the affair of the Chesapeake distinct from theother points, and in the necessity of maintaining our essential rights, but we ought to guard against unnecessary irritation, and to beware of being led away by the name of vi gour, so as to inflict a severe blow on our own corn fierce. He concluded by expressing his regret, that there should be so little in the speech respecting the temporary policy as to Denmark, and nothing at all as to the permanent policy respecting Ireland. Mr. BATHURST and Mr. WINDIiAM op posed the Address. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER fol lowed Mr. Windham, and insisted that it was a suf ficient answer to the demand for documents and secret communications, to tell that House that no man of ho nour would betray the source of the intelligence Mini sters had received. But, independent of this, hecontend ed that there were uponthe face of the measure suffi• aient to justify it to every candid mind. He should rest it on thistest—He calleil upon every Gentleman in that House to put his hand to his breast and say, whether he did not believe that Bonaparte's design was to direct, the force of a maritime confederacy against this coun-' try, and to make the naval force of Denmark more immediately instrumental in effecting that great object? The Right Honourable Gentleman had said, that captured ships would rot—certainly they would be rotten some time or other—but not in the ensuing spring ; not at a period . when they might be em. ployed in conveying French troops to • Ireland ; not when they were to be employed in excluding us from the Baltic, and furthering the designs of the enemy. The Right Honourable Gentleman then briefly allu. ded to the other topics, especially that relating to the Order of Council, and said that he should, he trusted, on a future occasion, when the papers were laid before the House, be enabled to satisfy Gentlemen that in no instance had his Majesty's present Government tem indifferent to the interests of the empire. Mr. SHERIDAN declared, he had never in his life come down to the House withmore conviction, thatit would be .unnecessary for him to take zny share in the debate than on the present occasion, but he had altered ,his intention on account OThe maul= in which Minis tresistul chosen to defend; or rather refused to defend a gm agree argin in the to an the n • jut, on th • whicl point be m jesty' the o ing 1 previ to hi custc that the shout Gets fusal satisl a prc on ti able in a mear with only rnent relati tlerm mine, ditiot time the a be re, sure 1 three ther her ci the I able in a may I —As his dc so he prom meth: could As tc *lager CIA I be gr paper to col think not b Ire par.i( not k expos spom they posec sides reste, thzy crati and who to th they seas wort with this hay, doer' migl mex sour nent migl the Wer Out t that their conduct. He was in hopes he should i ly assent to their measure at Copenhag en - d • •, cessary : for if it was necessary, all dlsptnf, ground —.cadre guatio. He wo u ld not be too'. lously nice in examining their conduct, a n d he wish to raise his voice, so as to be h eard end of this island to the other, against th nse ' ut s tj about soliciting petitions for peace, for they rassed Ministers ; but that inust be taken! and must imply, that Ministers sough t peace T • diligence, and with a wish to obt a i n i t. 1 1 „, otherwise, then the war could not terminat e tun ?. ••• ' 7 He eidi rA : ••• France or England was destroyed. various causes which had formerly b een •-•% the continuance 4A . the war, and maint ain •. was none for its continuance now, and nottia satisfy the people there was any, unless g. could prove it was impossible to obtai n Katt ' the enemy ; a proposition which be could not • 4 He ridiculed the conduct of Mini sters on the • • of the secret information they had rec e i ved, affairs at Tilsit. They were so tender on a n ,' mation, that one should have thought th at i t 1 ""i s - tat Emperor of Russialiimself; for they had been ni a. • • to him at the very moment they took the Fleet I 11 LI mark, and alledged, that the Emperor of R tts , a • . at the head of the confederacy against u s , i t . impossible to assent to that part of t h e '-. 1 •• • which related to Copenhagen, without the necessity of the measure. H e l amented . I than any one had done, that no attention • been bestowed on the subject of Ireland, vilti t hi - attended to without delay, the neglect wo t adh„ to the British Empire. He gave notice, h e soon bring that subject forward, as abso lutely sary to the salvation of the State. • Mr. MONTAGU MATTHEW insisted •,.. that the present Administration were e ste * st o - l i t the Catholics, of whom there were five ma tt Ireland ; had come into power by faction s and .„, stitutional intrigues, and he trusted in G an • not see them in power six months hence. • The question was then put, and the Addre ss . • 481 without a division, and a Committee ordered to -t) pare it in the usual foam. At one o'clock this morning , (Friday), t h e „ ono adjourned. • 1 LONDON. • "V-• FRIDAY, JANUARY 22. PRICE. OF STOCKS THIS DAY AT ONE. CYCLOCI. Consols, for January, 64H--Reduced 63:1—Gratin114 Eicheq. Bills par to pre. gicti On the subject of the ignorance of our Knit* - . lv the secret Articles in the Treaty of Tilsit, anent 11 the Moniteur, we refer bur Readers to the Soca )- I Lord HAWBESBURY, as reported in a preceding • f lumn. His Lordship stated distinctly, that the t arrangements concluded upon at Tilsit, were 1 ▪ communicated to the 13fitish Goverinnent bran t lies the Portuguese, who had been invited by F.. ,to lend their navy in conjunction with those o f D o • ,: e mark and Spain, to attack this country and lithe a ) His Lordship further stated, that the dinfecola 4111 Ireland were informed of these secret arrange= t even sooner than the PortugtieseGorernment, and"' .g ▪ intelligence from every quarter of Europe when thee .a ) were British. residents, .subsequently confined s suspicions so justly entertained of the hoary I Russia and Denmark. • . Admiral COCHRANE, in his Majesty's shiptellb arrived at Barbadoes on the 6th December fromTe tola. Prince STAIIREMBERG reached Dover morning, intending to embark in the afternon .1 ' Calais, but the wind blowing strong from the N. • he was prevented from sailing. He was expected sail about three o'clock this morning.—Prince E , Han-, who accompanied the Austrian Minister t Dover, does not yet leave England : he will rem to London. The Secretary to the late Austriula• 1 bassy is to remain in this country for about fonts days. • Yesterday his Majesty's ship Isis sailed from NI , • mout, with the fleet under convoy to the East.lndis • &c. consisting of the following ships, viz.: the Irs chelsea, Captain Moeearr ; Elphinstone, Cita . 4 t Essex, Nostra. ; Phoenix, DODD ; and the if e Castle, Rasisortv, for India ; Phoenix store ship, the Camperdown, PARKIT?, for St. Helena r Fly, PINALL, and the Lady Sinclair, Jaexsan e for th e ,_ of Go od Hope.—Wind N. The Cambrian, of 40 guns, has sent into PI -• 1- a very rich prize, a French ship of 400 tons, from • Isle of France, bound to L' Orient, laden with ;•• !t tea, sugar, coffee, and logwood, captured on the 1 s. inst. after a chace of twelve hours. The Defiance and Impetueux, both of 74 t o I- have both arrived at Plymouth, from the Rob* i- squadron ; also the Emerald, of 36 guns, frost st cruize. Sailed the Hindostan, of 50 gums fl it Tagus. 3. . • Hamburgh and Altona Papers to the 9th, ad 't • Dutch to the 16th, have arrived. 1 " LOWER ELBE, JAN. 4.—Portugal is to be united! • Spain.—The King of Etruria is to have Sardinialsd It the Balearick Islands, The King of Sardinia will 4 1 . indemnified elsewhere. " A new Kingdom is to be formed in Gus* g under the protection of the Emperor Napole 1 " Switzerland is expected soon to become the thoina zreat events. The King of Saxony returned fit . ° Warsaw to Dresden tu the 27th ult. r' Three large Russian armies are said to be an. 'bring.' One near Memel, another at Bialysteck , st d Le a third still more consickrable at Kaminiek, in 14° , a , , • Podolia! This important intelligence is given e Warsaw Gazette. '° (The conditions of the treaty between Frog el/1 o Holland, consequent upon the treaty of Tasir (~ subetance pf which we have already published) it also given in these papers. They shall appe ar it next.) 461 LONDON : Printed and published by LEVEL. KENT, • terbury Place, Lambeth) at the STAR-Orrice, No. d meet. PubilAted also at the STAL-Orrlcr, Tealt"'"