Star. — London, England, 1822-07-09 00:00:00

- :~+-~: _ PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF LORDS, JULY 8. Their Lordships met at twelve o'clock, to hear Appeals and give Judgments. Vanua AND °Tit/RS, Appellants. Levan, Respondent.—This was an appeal from the Court of Session, Scotland. --Judgment of the Court below reversed. Box, Appellant; BILL, Respondent.—This was an appeal from the Court of Session , Scotland. —Judgment of the below reversed. CRAWFUND Bauer., Appellant; DPLzors AND ANIYIIIZI4 Re spondents—This was an appeal from the Court of Session, Sco ret land.—Judgment of the Court below affirmed in part, and - versed in part. FULLZATOW Appellant ; Haw DALDTKPLIII HAMILTON, ne- Voudent.—This was an appeal from the Court of Session, Scot land. The Arromm-thriontAc was heard, and Mr. Tuoursox in part, for the appellant.—Further hearing postponed. The Marquis of HSZTIOAD took the oaths and his seat. Mr. BILOGIDTD, Mr. Donnas, and others, brought up from the Commons the Ireland Prisons Law Amendment Bill, the Scotch Register Offices Bill, the Small Notes Bill, the New Churches Bill, and the Westmoreland County Rates Bill, which 'were read a first time. Mr. ToMLYXS, from the Treasury, presented Monthly Ac counts of the number of ounces of Gold Bullion imported and exported—Laid on the table. The Earl of ROSSLYN postponed the second reading of the Skotch Jury Bill to Thursday next. Earl BATHURST put off the third reading of the Corn Bill to Wednesday, for which day their Lordships were ordered to be summoned. The Earl of EGREMONT presented Petitions from the Owners and Occupiers of Land in two Parishes of the County of Sussex against the Corn Bill.—Laid on the table. The Earl of LIMERICK presented Petitions from Daniel Barrington, Esq. John .Pollock , and Arthur Collingwood Pol lock, Esqrs. Clerks of the Crown for the County of Limerick and the Province of Leinster, and one from the Clerk of the Crown for Connaught, against the Irish Grand Jury Present ment Laid on the table. The Irish Land Revenue Bill was read a third time and passed. The Five per Cents. Contracts Bill went through a Commit tee, and was reported. The Marquis of LANSDOWN presented a Petition from the Owners and Occupiers of Land attending the Dorchester Market against the Corn Bill. Laid on the table.—Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. - - - - Mr. THOMAS WILSON presented a Petition from a per son named Anderson, praying for a compensation for injuries alleged to have been done to his property by the West India Dock Company.—Referred to the Committee on Foreign Trade. A Petition was presented from several Merchants of Hull, praying for the total repeal of the Salt Tax.—Ordered to lie on the table. The Loan Bill went through a Committee. Report to-morrow. The “ Charge of Pensions" Bill went through a Committee. — Report to-morrow. The same course was taken on the Five per Cents. Repay- *mut Bill. The Exchequer Bills and Public Works Bill was read a second time, and committed for to-morrow. The same course was taken on the Duchy of Cornwall Bill. The Small Notes 13111 and the Scotch Revers Bill were read a third time and passed. The Scottish Spirits Exportation Bill was read a second time and committed for to-morrow. The same course was taken on the Scotch Spirits Drawback Bill. The " Punishment by Hard Labour" Bill was read a second time, and committed for to-morrow. The Excise Licenses Regulation Bill went through a Committee. Mr. WILLIAMS (of Lincoln) presented a Petition from certain Manufacturers of Salt in Cheshire, praying for the total repeal of the Salt Tax.—Ordered to lie on the table. DISTRESS IN IRELAND. The Report of the Committee to consider the Irish Distress was brought up, after a few words from Mr. BERNAL and Mr. GOULBURN. Mr. S. WORTLEY could not omit the present op portunity of condemning the practice of seeking forced benevolence for the aid of the suffering Irish by gring from house to house—(Hear, hear).—lt would be better for Government to apply at once to Parliament for a sufficient sum. Mr. CALCRAFT concurred in the opinion of the last speaker. Mr. BENNET expressed himself to the same effect. lie had himself thought it right to refuse attending to the application cf the Churchwardens of his own parish when they applied to him for his subscription.) He would subscribe in his own way, and as he thought proper. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, he agreed that it would be better to take a Vote of Credit to meet any exigency which might occur during the recess. Mr. DAWSON thought the practice of collecting from door to door Was highly objectionable; though he was in general friendly to the invitation of pli cate liberality. General GASCOYNE feared the cause of the pre sent distress was a permanent one. If a Vote of Cre dit were to be called for, he thought an inquiry into the cause should be set on foot, with a view of afford ing, if possible, permanent relief.—The Report was then read and agreed to. 11WRESSIIZST. Mr. HOBHOUSE presented a Petition from two individuals, who complained that they had been ap. prehended by the Captain of one of his Majesty's ves sels, on a charge of defrauding the Revenue, and committed to Jail ; that on being brought up to be examined, there was no charge brought against them, but they were not only not then discharged, but sent on board the Impregnable, in order to be impressed into the naval service. The Honourable Member referred to the several Impress Acts, and contended that the treatment of the individuals in question was illegal, The Court of King's Bench had refused them their Writs of Habeas Corpus, and they were therefore compelled to apply to the House for relief. Mr. LUSHINOTON and Sir GEORGE CLERK con tended that the sending of the Petitioners on board the tender was perfectly legal. After a few words from Mr. BRIGRT and Mr. BERNAL is support of the Petition, Mr. WARRE said, the practice, legal or not, in the course of which these Petitioners were appre hended, was highly to be reprobated. Mr. BROUGHAM said, he could not find a more apposite illustration of the system he had more than once exposed, than the present. It appeared that a wan might, unconvicted, unheard, and even unac cased, be sent to prison; and thence pressed into the sea service for five }ears! Originally it was neces sary for a man, under circumstances similar to these of the Petitioners, to be desirous to enter into the sea service, in order to avoid the consequence of a con viction for smuggling ; but the Revenue Laws crept on, and the consent of the accused was now dispensed with. These laws were slipped in generally about the month of July, when many Members were mostly absent. He trusted his Hon. Friend, the Member for Westminster, would, even now, endeavosr to bring is tt Bill to alter the law. Mr. LUSHINGTON said, he was illndllitre that there would be any objection to alter the present law, which. dispeesert with the consent-of the acetited.-•• The Petition wits then ordered to be Muted. FOR,CIERY Of BANK MOTEL Mr. BENNET presented a Petition from an indi vidual named Fergusson, complaining that the Bank did not exert themselves to prevent the forgery of their notes, and praying that the House would not agree to any Bill sanctioning the increased issue of these notes. , Mr. HUME thought the Ba nk had the Means of increasing the difficulty of forging their noses, and cd he thought they were highly c ulp able for having hitherto neglected to avail highly es of those means. Mr. PEIRSE defended the c uct of the Bank. He begged to ask what motive they could possibly have to wish for the increase of forgeries upon them? All the specimens of notes submitted for their consi deration were as eas,Ry imitated as the Bank-notes. After a few words from Mr. BINNIT and from Mr. Hums, in explanation, Mr. LOCKHART said, he thought inspectors should be stationed in different parts of the country, in order to afford easy reference. This would tend much to deter persons from uttering forged notes. • Mr. H. GURNEY did not think the suggestion of the last speaker could be carried into beneficial effect. Mr. PEIRSE stated, that there was only one pro secution for forgery on the Bank of England pending at present. The forgeries used to be principally on the one and two pound notes, and now that they were not issued, the prosecutions were greatly diminished. Mr. RICARDO thought, that if the plan of the Hon. Member for Oxford, of having Inspectors from the Bank of England in different parts of . London were adopted, the evil would be greatly alleviated. Mr. HART DAVIS said that such inspectors could not be wanted in the country, since, in a million of Bank of England notes lately come from the country, there was not a single forgery. After a few words from Mr. ATTwoon, the Peti tion was read, and ordered to be printed. PROSECUTION OF 3ORTHWICK. Mr. ABERCROMBY, in moving for " Copies of the Commission under which the Deputies of the Lord Advocate act," said, that although it might not be in his power during the present Session to bring be fore the Howe the case of abuse, as he contended. relative to the prosecution of Mr. Borthwick, he should certainly not fail in doing so next Session.— The motion was agreed to. LICENSING BILL. Mr. BUXTON wished to know from the Hon. and Learned Member for Winchelsea, whether he ex pected to bring forward the second reading of the Publicans License Bill that night ? Mr. BROUGHAM begged the Hon. Member to understand, before he answered his question, that the Bill he alluded to had nothing to do with publicans. It stood for that night, but he supposed the Irish af fairs would prevent its coming on. Before he stated when he should postpone it to, he wished to know whether he was to understand from the Hon. Mem ber's interrogatory that it was his intention to oppose it, since he was not aware that either in principle or detail it was in any way objectionable? Mr. BUXTON said, that the Bill appeared to be so objectionable, both in principle and detail, that he should oppose it in every possible stage. Mr. BROUGHAM said, it was therefore his wish that it should be thoroughly discuised, and he would endeavour to ascertain, before he left the House that night, upon what day that could finally take place. IRISH INSURRECTION ACT. The Order of the Day for the House resolving it self into a Committee on this Act having been read, Mr. GOULBURN said that the House was too well aware of the circumstances under which the ap plication of the Insurrection Acts to Ireland had ori ginated to need that he should recapitulate them.— In making this application for the continuance of it, he should not attempt to offer any argumerts to in duce the House to look at it with a more favours le eye than it had hitherto been regarded with. For though he had voted for that Act, he assured the House that no Hon. Member who had most strenu ously opposed it, was mote sensible than he was of the general objections to it. It would have been most gratifying to his feelings, and to those of the Noble Lord at the head of the Government of Ire land, could they have thought it possible to dispense with it on the present occasion; for they felt that it was not a measure of that nature which ought to cha racterise the acts of a free Government, and that it could only be justifiable in a case where all milder means would not avail. He thought he should be sure of the concurrence of the House if he could sa tisfy them that the state of Ireland was such as to render the resort to extraordinary measures neces sary, the ordinary laws being at present inadequate, and that this particular law was applicable. If he were able to do this, he thought he should remove all objection from the minds of those who admitted that extraordinary times demanded extraordinary measures.. So short a period had elapsed since Par liament had granted this Act, that it was unneces sary for him to go into a detail of the history of Ire land for the last eight or nine months. It was merely necessary for him to recall to the recollection of the House the state of things which then existed, and comparing that with the present moment, deduce the necessity he was anxious to establish. He re quested the House to remember that at that period there was a general system of insubordination in the country, existing to a greater extent in some districts than in others, but infecting more or less almost every one. The House would remember, that this system had been in progressive operation for six or seven months, up to the period of the meeting of Parliament, when open insurrection was manifested, with open warfare against the King's troops. This rebellion and insurrection had an evident, distinctive, and alarming character—that of being directed against the rights of property and the administration of the law, and principally, and to an alarming ex tent, infecting the lower orders. It was besides car ried on by secret association, which rendered it diffi cult to fathom the source of the danger; and its mode of operation was to extort oaths for the non payment of tithes, taxes, and rent. The result of the preconcert at nightly meetings, was a general attack upon the property of the loyal and peaceable. ' The mere particular object of the rebellion was, to ' obtain arms, and make proselytes, that the actors in it might be enabled to extend to other parts of the country their destructive 'MOM He could net en j ter into a detail of the Atrocious outrages perpetrated, under this, , as they . mus r t er r present to dse: knew that it waji tales of fire, to take gym. minds of "all connected with I d: at the same , mediate steprto extinguish it ; but he thought snin e time that he abstained' from principle, in the situa- attention was to be given to the means of preventing don in which he stood with regard to the House, its recurrence. He begged for himself to say, that making any appeal to the passions, to assist him to- he had none of that distrust of the Noble Lord et wards the object of his address , he would merely ! the head of the Irish GovernMent spoken of by the observe, that the effect of all the outrages, and of ' Right Hon. Secretary. He thought him a competent the whole system, was to create a power in t he and am iable individual. But the y were, to bear s country stronger than the law. It might be said that mind that the inquiry into the state of that unhappy it was the duty of the Irish Government to apply to country bad never yet been entered into. The Right Parliament for strong powers at the earliest moments Hon. Gentleman, however, now came down to tht these machinations came to its knowledge. But he House to demand a continuance of the tiemendi ml was prepared to contend, that the course pursued by enactments of this Bill. It was true that he ra . te the Government of Ireland had been perfectly con- them up the suspension of-the Habeas Corpus A ce; sistent with justice and discretion. In his opinion, it but that was nothing when they considered that it was the duty of aGcivernment to do its utmost to create never was required at all, and was only dem a ni,; e d and establish habits of obedience and reverence to in the lust for power, aid granted in the wantonness the laws; and if a Government were to resort at the of confidence. His objection went to the principl e outset of a manifestation of a lawless disposition to of the Bill, which, he thought, was a subversi: m unconstitutional severe measures, without t r y in g the the ri g hts of Irishmen, and a violation of that strength of the ordinary laws, it would go far to up- stitutien which was the only safeguard of their liber !y root that respect for the laws upon which the stabi- and their lives. He knew, however, that brute force lity of a Government in a great measure depended. was considered the only nix meditietrix of governiv n In addition to what took place at the Assizes, the in Ireland ! He remembered when he was in Ireland, Government had - resorted to the use of Special Corn- in former times, seeing a man so flogged, from k missions, through whose exertions many offenders nape of his neck to the calves of his legs, for heil g were brought to trial. In the counties where out- only suspected of being an United Irishman, a; io rag, most prevailed, the Special Police, who had been horrify humanity. He should not have possessed the found so ineffectual, were called into action, and the feelings of a man had he not interfered on that to. , military were increased one half. But all these pre- casion, and his•only answer was, that he, an cautions produced no diminution of the evil, and at man, knew not how to govern Irishmen, that th e , the opening of the Parliament, the plot had reached cat-o'nine-tails or the halter were the only irotr uments its consummation, and was on the eve of explosion. of punishment to treat them with. It bad alway s —Upon the view of this state of . things it was that been the practice of his Majesty's Govez ument to Parliament was induced to grant to the 'lrish Go- pass coercive measures for Ireland, under vernment those extraordinary powers of which the of inquiry, and never to perform them. This h Insurrection Act was only IC part. It was gratifying been the case since 1798 to the present time. T. for him to say, that there was no longer the same ex- time was come when Ireland must be governe.i tent of evil which then prevailed. There was in the if its people were freemen, instead of conquered vas. principal disturbed districts a diminution of outrage. sals. Though he could not expect that any success. There was also, he hoped, some reform in the spirit ful resistance to the measures of the Governmett of the people. There was now, which did not then would be made by the Irish in a civil war (old he exist, a feeling of kindness towards this country, was certainly the last man to wish it), yet he would arising from her exertions to relieve their distresses, advise the Right Hon. Gentleman and his colleagues which he hoped to see grow into a feeling of love for not to treat with too much contempt the coni r laints the Government—(Hear, hear). But he could not of the sufferers. He warned them against taiiill,:; avoid impressing upon them that there was at least course which would call forth the energies of de pair, enough remaining to call upon them to hesitate be. and wished them to bear in mind what a Nobleman fore they deprived the Executive of the means of had told Charles I. namely, that the way to core re checking the existing evils, or of preventing the re- bellion was to remove the causes. It was necessary currence of the past. It was impossible for any one that healing measures should he adopted with re to have read the dispatches of the Noble Lord at the spect to Ireland. The first remedy to be applied was head of the Irish Government, without seeing that a termination of those civil and religious distinctions there was a regular system of outrage—that outrages which had so long been kept up in that country. ar.d were exceedingly numerous, and that they were of a which had proved a constant source of exasperation. character most alarming. And although these dis- He knew it would be said that the English•Hoioe of patches did not come down to the latest moment, he Commons had done its duty on this subject, and that wished it were in his power to state that the last ac• the obstacle was to be found elsewhere. But he counts did not present to the view outrages exactly could not help looking on that portion of the similar. The dispatches came down to the end of try who favoured Catholic Emancipation, as being May, and to shew that the system continued in vi- the real impediments in the way of the measure. it gorous operation biyond that period, he need only they had refused to remain in the Government whea state the extent to which it was in action during the fol- it , failed, could any man believe that an A nti-eathclie lowing ten days. During that short space of time in Administration could have been formed ? The dii• one county alone there were seven houses burned, w culties which had formerly stood in the ay were nn ' nine houses attacked by armed bands, and one sub- more. It was known what were the sentiments t: his present Majesty on this subject, and there ter,*jected to nightly visitation. It was not, however, upon the number of the outrages that he applied to was a time when a king of England could be nice reasonably expected to. say as Joseph the Secend Parliament for extraordinary measures. It was on account of the distinctive character of the outrages had said—" Thank Goo, my people are no loncer that he called upon the House for additional powers. divided by religious difference,"—(Hear, heal ). The next remedy he regarded as a sine qua non. it It was impossible not to see, from the character of them, that they were not the result of sudden ebulli - would apply to that which had occasioned all the tion in the individuals committingthem, but that they disturbances and rebellions in Ireland. The House proceeded from deliberate design. Robbery, confla- would easily anticipate that he meant the abolitico of tithes, and the establishment of a new regulation gration, and murder, followed upon the neglect t 9 obey some notice not to pay rent, tithes, or taxes.— of the revenues of the Church. He regretted that Another distinctive character was, that certain punish- he had been absent when his Hon. Friend, the Meal bteenrdefodr, Montros it e, s n t O n k n s t up n tsh tto t a s u s abject. sert tll a t H c e i it c2 ment was inflicted upon any one who was the means of bringing an offender to justice. It was from the la mentable state of that country that the law was put property was so sacred in its character tha t it mill , not be regulated when this was de s irable for t he we::- A in execution only at the expense of the individuals being of the State. He shewed th a t P ar li amen : h 4 who contributed to it. It frequently happened that twice applied for a new arran g eme n t o f Ch urc h pro the obnoxious witness or prosecutor were sent to the nearest jail for their own security, and the papers be- petty in the time of Henry IV. Th e y h a d d one t he fore the House contained the recital of an instance in same in the reign of Hen r y V. an d t h e propert y of the which the house of an individual was attacked, in Church was actually taken by th e C rown i n t he pursuance of a conspiracy to take his life, the day time of Henry VIII.--(Hear.)—Gentlemen m i g ht after he had been sent within the walls of a pri .on for cheer at the name of H enr y VIII. b ut w h atever t hey might think of his seizure of t h e Ch urc h property, he safety. Every attempt to check the nightly meet- ings, without the operation of this Act, would be in- had never found those who held any share of the effectual. This Act arrested the offender at his door, I:oo di 3 spos ," ed to b s e h st e7 ' t e h d at by the h y im con in sid l e a r y ed im th P .l sacrilege, by giving up th e i r r.d prevented the commission of crime. He called upontolan-niaatciOtll4 emo l uments . In t 5. and in that respect was a measure of mercy, for it the House to give relief to those who required the r e- dern times, he contended, measures had been pro lief, and punishment to those who deserved it. The duced in Parliament to ma k e a new regu l at i o n in matters regarding the p ro p ert y o f t h e Church. W;rat Noble Lord at the head of the Irish Government had distinctly stated his opinion, that there were those was the origin of tithe s ? H e wou ld not now go back who were still sworn in anticipation of this law being to the Jewish Theocracy to inquire into their charac out of force. He knew that individual character, ter ; but the House was aware that tithes had been however high, was no ground of confidence for high granted to the House of Levi, becau s e they were and unusual powers. But the necessity being admit- priests and guardian s of t h e A r k, an d h a d not s h a red ted, and Parliament having already confided certain in those lands which h a d b een di v id e d among tile powers in an individual, the manner in which he had other tribes of Israel. To come to a later p 'eriod, discharged his trust must be a ground of continuance. who would pretend that tithe s h a d b een ki:im A Noble Lord had, on a former occasion, stated that during the first four hundred years of the existence the Nobleman to whom he had just alluded, had a of the Christian Church ? It was not till the rear disposition to arrogate to himself arbitrary powers, 800 that they were introduced. They were then to. and therefore no security was to be placed in him.— troduced by crime. The King of Murcia haring Against such a charge, it was scarcely possible to de- committed a treacherous murder, obliged the peoCe fend any Government ; but there were those on the to pay tithes to the Church. He also went to Rome, other side of the House who could bear testimony to to expiate his offence by offering a tribute of a penal the public character of that Nobleman, and that con- exacted from every householder. He shewed that the &knee was due to him--(Hear, hear). If, therefore, circumstances under which tithes had been formerly his not having abused the confidence reposed in him claimed were very different from those under which was any ground for a further extension of it, he called they were now levied, as many onerous duties then upon the House to arm him with the same powers fell on those who received them, from which they again. He could not conceive that Parliament would were now relieved. The Bishops now had prince:l restrict to a short period a power which, when simi- fortunes. The four Archbishops and eighteen Bishops lar dangers existed, was asked for the purpose of ma. now in Ireland received not less, according to retools, turing plans, which had been commenced under the which he believed to he authentic, than £ISB,O OO, first grant of that power. The Right Honou r able without reckonin g o n l eases o f tithes and sources of Gentleman concluded by moving, that the Speaker increase, which had enabled one Bishop to die worth leave the - Chair. £850,000, who had little property when he went to Sir ROBERT WILSON gave full credit to the Ireland. Now, without taking from the present in' Right Hon. Gentleman for the conciliatory tone in cumbents the income they at present enjoyed, he held which he bad treated this subject, which he hoped, it to be the duty of Parliament not to commit an act for the benefit of the Irish, he would preserve in all of spoliation, but to make some arrangement winch hii communications with the Irish Government. He would be more agreeable to the people, and place also commended the fair and candid statements be the security of the country on the rock of peace. lie. had made to the House, although it was not in his set forth th e importance of conciliating the people of power, upon the strength of them, to agree to hit Ireland. For the Protestant School they at present motion with regard to the Insurrection Bill. He oy: granted the sum of A',18,700. For the Irish Catholic -pOsed it, as not calculated to obtain that tranquillity School they give 9600. He did not quarrel with the spoken of by the Right lion.Gendeman; but. on the disparity between the sums, but he remarked on the coattarle to remove it to a realm distance. He vote to the Kildare Associatioawhich went to de feat