Star. — London, England, 1810-03-03 00:00:00

it :b „ A t rte r ri fs , :ire r' r • Hi j •• ••‘ : .4" ' and 4l ne 'rims won ' 0 1 ••t• NV, 'mss If,. W h ' 011 da: was ▪ wh th :•es; ' H • 114 d c ;rr,t)tlll vi t ;ht It. % ar'l lin: . :I^ f c7;O ea the cr It.lntcd be a Pi by :lie ,a right o.l± w in that ftn 07t.;c0 1 rai • rp 4 i.t Ed: to cue .t btt in a pp the 11:ci ce saki 1 ."71;1 11. .11 4 , CC;45. I: ; I it Pc •ir pro( t d LT • . ..b e Noble Lo rd were so in his place, be thould or tw n to him ; a he wa.s not, he should Imkrely m ows • e , he DOW ceived.—Ordered accordingly ; read, and e table. tionon of Mr. FOSTER, a Committee was appointed :;.oec:l,:g the state of commtmication between Shrews- H 0.% heasl, for the accommodation of travellers, and the on the turnpike-road fund. FERGUSON presented s petition from the bleachers td cotton in the counzy ot Fite, praying to be allowed ,howback on the importation of starch, ashes, soap, istutte, r.d other bleaching materies, as allovred Niit uati• Earl cf autthain * due great- Ina, who raised England to the zenith of her glory ; wbeaayes tions had called fertlt thegraeittode stud adatiratitia of a whole natioit, and who had so far enobled the title, of which he was the first , weareri . .that 'however might subsequently have been anllied, it w still command the veneration of posterity ;- a — li t had been said by that illustribus Statesman- 1 ' That he had not been long in Office • before he found the ground was rotten under his• feet." —That great man too had asserted boldly and with impunity, though nbw it was considered so heinous a Libel that , --.“ there was a secret some- ; thing behind the Throne greater than the Throne itself." By a strange fatal* of the son of that en- ' I lightened Minister, it appeared formed now a part of ! that secret power by which his patriotic father was i turned out of office'. There had always been a secret something about the Throne by which the efforts of every Government had been at times counteracted.— However incessant the toil to weave the web, in one ' night, one hour, this invisible power was able to un ravel it. It was like • --- the drudging Goblin sweat To earn his cream-bowl, duly set ; When, in one night, ere glimpse of morn, His shadowy tail had thresli'd the corn That ten day•slabouriss could not end; • And, stretclid out all the chimney's length, Basks at the fire his hairy strength ; And, crop-full, out of doors he fl'ngs, Ere the firsecock his matin rings ! The feelings of his Majesty ought not to be unneces sarily violated by complaints, hut when such an in* stance of secret influence was found, he thought die King'sc yes should be opened to the circnmstance.and that he should be told the British Constitution knew nut cf ostensible servants of the Crown. It was the duty of that House, by recording on their Journals the transactions, and by taking other necessary steps, i to guard against the recurrence of such a circum stance. Lord Chatham had not only sinned against the Constitution, but his conduit had been so repre hensible as to tend to create divisions between the army and the navy, and thus bring new disasters on the country. It was the glory of late years that the two services were on almost every occasion combined on the most cordial co-operation. Those mutual com plaints which formerly arose out of differences to which thousands of our warriors were sacrificed, were now scarcely known, and the army and levy in their operations were always found united heart and hand in the common cause. Lord Chatham had openly extolled the conduct of Sir Richard Strachan. Those expressions of approbation he had subsequently con tradicted, long after the conclusion of the Expedi tion ; and that too at a time when no inquiry was in tended (for he knew that Ministers were -determined not to grant an inquiry). The Gentlemen opposite did not know at that time that an inquiry would he wrung from them; they were not aware of their weakness. Under these circumstances, Lord Chatham, three days before the Meeting of Parlia ment, at a time when he knew no inquiry was in tended, had crept in a covered private manner to the King, to stab the Constitution ; or, if not to stab the Constitution, at least to stab the character of a gallant Naval Officer. Why was not the narrative made public before ? Lord Chatham thought it complete in October ; but he had kept it back, because he wished it to go iu with the narrative of Sir Richard Strachan. He did not then know that an Address would be presented to the King on the subject ; nor did he know that Sir Richard Strachan would be called on for any such narrative. When asked if he had heard that Sir Richard Strachan had been called on for such a paper, he had answered that he had not. lle stated that he had reserved his narrative, that the two might go in together, yet subsequently it appeared on Lord Chatham's being interrogated on the subject, that he did not think Sir Richard Strachan had such a one to send. On this sub. ject he would say little., it spoke for itself, and re quired no comment. Would it be said that Lord Chatham did not mean to cast a slur on the cha racter of Sir Richard Strachan, when in no less than twelve places he threw direct blame on his conduct ; could it be thought that the Noble Lnrd threw his firebrands in sport ? A full exposition of all these cir cumstances would he trusted guard against those fa tal consequences which might otherwise have been eepected to result from such conduct. He hoped the army and navy would continue to be united on all occasions. He would not detain the House longer on the subject. He felt some anxiety on the occasion, bor. it was not the anxiety of doubt or of fear, or if of either, it only proceeded from an apprehension that he had not done the subject justice—that he had omitted to state something that ought to have been I I mentioned. He thought the House could not object to the resolutions he had to submit to them. If they did, if they stopped short of passing a vote of censure on such conduct, he thought they would act incon sistently, and would lose the credit they had gained by their former vote, but agreeing to it, they would prove to the country that they had not (as they had been represented to be) been wholly unworthy of their confidence. He concluded by moving, " That John Earl of Chatham, having requested permission of his Maj..sty to pro cent to hint a narrative of his proceedings, did the I.lth of January privately submit to the King a paper, bearing date the 15th of October, purporting to be a narrative of the rp)cectlings of his Majesty's land torces under his command, of which he withheld all knowledge from his Majesty's Mini ster-, and the Admiral commanding the naval part of the Expedi tion, whose conduct he had implicated in no fewer that twelve rim of his narrative, and that on the 10th of February it had been returned to him, in consequence of a request from him to that effect, and that the sante was .:gain tendered on the 14th of February to his Majesty, having been altered, by the omission of a paragraph, containing an opinion, the substance of which, from the examination of Lord Chatham, they had not .been able to aicer :dn. " fiecobdly, That It is the opinion of this House, that John 'Earl of Chatham haying thus acted, had been guilty of an uncon stitutional abuse of the privilege he enjoyed of having access to the - Throne, which could not but tend to be highly Injurious to the , public service." The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER complained that a most unfounded misrepresentation had been given of his conduct. He had contended that it was inconsistent to ask a Cabinet Minister to recall what by oath he was forbidden to disclose. — :With respect to the inconsistency imputed to him in voting against the Address after he had Stated it to be proper to address the Throne on such occasions, the Hon. Gentleman himself did away the charge while he made it. He had said that he would always maintain that right, but always contend for the using of it with discretion. Saying this, he admitted it to be a fair question, whether. or not that.was a time at kt T'•- 0 having excited a good deal of laughter, ) RD AI)VOCATE OF :sCO pleasantly oh- Gcnilmen which suppose this article was r a oject, certatnly was not in the con ef the petitioners. trj; \EY movea fcr a copy of a letter from the Secre . ",r :L.) :he luspector General of Hospitals, dated July 8, Irdered. NOTION OF CENSURE. sehIITBREAD rose to make the motion of h e had given notice. He said, it was just a ss since he had the honour to address the a paper or papers, of which the SLbj ect of agr eatr reason to believe that some use had been / ha W 2 ; not proper or constitutional ; and his icaoce the House to vote an than 1M Wa ) his M.nesty, praying that he would be pleasedgra to order those papers to be laid before wo e lie then contended, that the House not i d the r:eht, but that it was also a duty in et cn them, to call for those papers; and to ircostsl honour of the House, they did on that sa e that the papers ought to be produced ; conseyeence of the Address then agreed e k t ee eeswer that had been returned to that ash he thought it a duty incumbent on to found the Resolutions which he should is have to submit to the consideration of the His endeavours, on that occasion, had been etly s uccessful, and the vote of that night form a proud political era in the history of this T , on which posterity would look with reve and 7.e.Tect, and would feel the deepest grati hr the vigilance, firmness, and patriotism dis on that eight by the House of Commons. In Ir lv part of the inquiry, when an answer was :d from a certain personage who happened to 'vivo Councillor, a difficulty had been started R;ght Honourable Gentleman opposite to and hy his Majesty's Law Officers, as to the of coonining a Privy Councillor, who by his :as bound to keep the secrets entrusted to him A capacity ; but the Right odon. Gentleman told the House, the difficulty might be easily oiree for it was only necessary to address• his 4 on be occasion, and he would be advise:l to ante with the objection, by releasing such Privy idler from his oath. The right he contended Ist ; the discretion it was their part to consider occasions, and to use it, ia a greater or less as 'according to the opinion they anrertained of Oa e5:6,4 of enforcing the right. But, on the rses; cl thi, day sehsnight, the Right Hon. Gentle oise who It .d been so favourable to addressing on a haustoccasion, enpcsed the address w hied the House led sr hones:l - ably for themselves voted, and would love remolded them that it was necessary, noteith easing the right, to pause and ascertain whether, in %Ted discretion, they would address his Majesty for a pper et papers which might never have been in exist ence. "In the pr, sent case, however, (said Mr. Whit latal),es ail 'know that John Earl of Chadians did, titan ur.coatitotional manner, take his minutes and Noss to the King, and has thereby committed a grez: offence against the Constitution, and it becomes the duty of the House to shew its sense of such pro ceedings." When the House reflected and took into this consideration the difference of what had been said by the Noble Lord in the ex tmination of the •27tii February, compared with that evidence 'which ia Lid given on the d February, had he been an cidinasy witness, the House would not now have had sccasiou tc be debating what they would do concerning it ; they would have felt their way at once ; but being a Peer of the realm, it was not by a course of ordinary proceeding the House could express their sense of his • toaduct. It al neared, he said, that Lord Chatham, rithout any communication of his intention to any *a his colleagues in office, had, on the lath of Jo tsary, made a ccrnmunication to his Majesty 4- soscoon: the Expedition to the Scheldt, be deli vsreg into his Majesty's hands a narrative of the pr;cecdings in that Eapedi tic!) . It appeared also that this oar:dive continued in his Majesty's posses soa from the said 151 h day of January to the I.lth cf February. Till the 7111 of February it l:iy there tneasturbed. The Earl of Chatham himself had, tisheg ail that time., never tltcui;ht ot any alteration losn; necessary ; and the reasons he had stated for whiiiun to have it agaia, and to make any altcra scss, were so dill - et-ere that nu man could tell what meant. On the 7th of February, it appeared, ' , sorest, that he dnired to withdraw the nail a ties ia ordsr to make alterations io it. What that ottsatioa was, the Noble Lord would not say ; hut le believed it was to alter an opinion that was given !oval-kis the latter part of it. On the 10th ot Fe- L'usry it •a as asked for ; on the 12th it was trans- Load to Lord Chatham ; and on the 14Th it was 'eso hadered to his Majesty, who erdercd it to he ie:7l;nto the hands of the Secretary of State.— . 1 e- apression " tendered" had struck him (Mr. 1 Notbsead) and he had in consequeoce asked if the PirP' , thus altered and amended, had ever passed into tit• hand ? He was answered—" No ; it ltd not." A..ins it rppeared Lord Chatham had rioehuected a paper, in which the character of Sir icreou Schacht:llllA been implicated no ihwcr than tWciae times, w hich had been withdrawn from his , ` 43 lsszY for the purpose of having, an opinion insert ed therein, which he had no doubt went to inculpate theadilant Admiral. It had been left 2.3 gays in the 11 all7va el . his Majesty, then withdraw n to be corrected, "'id as , ain " tendered" to his Majesty till the 14th of FOort:try, when it was given in, in an amended s , : ate , ;uld then, without passing into the hands of his Ma lest:, communicated by the consent of Lord Cha en. if" to Ministers. At the present crisis, towards tse dose of a lcmreign, our Sovereign was so blessed 'ls to be bette r loved - perhaps than any Monarch who. I lmleeer s at on t h e throne before him. The virtues which so eminently distinguished him were all his Zellr. , : u .d r if he had any f a ults, for those faults, from e of our Constitution, his confidential Mini sters were responsible. What had however been the conduct of those about him during the period he had besA sea,el on the throne ? It had heeu said by rnt.:; .~~:::: • voja xrual R r"e stiorq 11. 1 . 9 ft° / tool 01 IV et" re.r.l .- . Which it ctilcl ' tiled with diseret l ion iHe therefore of the slip a. their colleaotte, and seer tvd h'm as d thiekiugat could consistently oppose it.— ipeace.oitering to the people, for tract. misconduct - With-. -TMect., the motion, he hoped the House which ought to have visited in ven,-;:ance. the whole ' woutd tVot. bp ro:A eiipitate, and vote the lent - ions' of his Majesty's Government. He had no ditlicuity proposed he iVith qut due consideration. '' On Thursday, in saying, that under such circumstances in a ba wla was informed that notice had been given of lanced case, he would support a colleague. He such a motion, he had asked of it was just that the begged not to be misunderstood ; lid did not mean to evidence given at . that Bar should he canvassed before 'say, if a colleague wars wrong, he should tinder any it had been printed. ft was not fair to select 'one or circumstances be supported. But in a balars ed case, two questions froth the evidencee'for . the purpose of where a colleague was merely in error, he thought, creating a discussion. If that course were to be pur- deserting his cause, he should be exposed to more sued, of what use was it printing the minutes of the merited reprobation than could otherwise fail to his evidence, as Gentlemen, who on thatatcount did not share. Justice, decency, and propriety, alike called • regularly attend, could not be prepared foi the cle. on them to.post?orte coming to a decision on the re bate ? The Hon. Gentleman had seemed in Sortie solutions that met ; he therefore concluded by rnov measilre aware of the impropriety of taking up the Ing an adjournment of the debate till Mondey. subject in such a manner, as he had expreaea an in- . • Idr. BRANb thought it was net so much of a, per. • tendon of putting the evidence out of the cliteatioo. sonal as a constitutional question.. •If he were in 'of- - • But had he not raised considerable prejndices against" fice, and a friend of his acted so, he would disdain the individual whose conduct he had so fully diScus- him as a Colleague, - The qtfestion was more serious.' 1 sett by contrasting the evidence given by him oldie than Gentlemen might think. A secret influence bad 23c1 with that of the 27th, where it appeared to be of letig surrounded the Throne. The greatest orator. an unfavourable nature ? Was it too much to require this country had produced( Mr.Biirkejhad pennon noel' (even if every one there was acquainted with the evi-' that secret influence to be dangerous. He wasfor Ole' dence) a short time to consider of it ? Would it be early decision, thoughitpostporiement were necessary . well to hurry themselves on an occasion which might to the due considerauen of the subject, he should •Ja tonsign the character of an individual to such obloquy the last man in the world-to oppose the adjournment. as the resolutions went to throw on the Noble Lord ? He was averse i to personal questions, but when a fa- What advantagestould there be in passing those re- vourite at Court was seen prejudicing the Sovereign solutions on a Friday„ 'that might • not be gained if again* the Navy, he had lees objection to such aties- . they were not decided . ontill Monday ? Would it not Lion than he should have under almost any other cir-' better tospostpeosifeni adorn, that' dry might cutnstances. He concluded, supporting -the -nooka,. least have the appearance or considering the sub- Mr. BATHURST begted leave . to oar at few ject before they rive their vote ? It was not well to observations. If it'was cofteeivett that thettestiot decide on that evidence which had only been put into was one of great constitutional importance , and &trite , ' their hands since entering - the Hisuse that day. The affecting the character and honour of the person - im- Hon. Gentleman had commented on the evidence plicaied in the resolutions, it would be advistatee given by Lord Chatham tin tbe t'Jd and 27th Fehru- that the question should be disposed of in the manner ary ; but could it be suppose4thit the House - was pre- least liable to objections. He therefor*, thought, as pared to enter into the subject ! -If the conduct of the e‘riaence had not been printed and distributed the Noble Lord had been such ,as bad been limn:lied last night, it would be boner to postpone the discia-- to him, he should think the resolutions submitted to' don for a night or two. If the Right Hon. Gen*. the 'House not sufficiently severe If Lord Chat- man (Mr. Pto-ceval) had moved tfie previous ques ham had endeavoured secretly to blast the character arm, he could not have brought himself to assent to of * Sir Richard Strechan, he would readily pdmii a motion which might get rid of the oriend ques that neicensure the Hotiee . could past on such con- tion-; but as it was merely for adjourning the debug I duct would be too severe.. But Was there- any thing till Monday; he should' agree to the proposition. lit in the conduct of Lord Chatham that could give a thought'that a short delay was due to the great laii colour to the charge ? Was there any thing in bi> portance of the question, whether as perfectly affe.;t: choketer that could justify such an imputation. Ht ing the Noble Lord who was the object . of it, or fa.* 'wild hate them try it by dates and by 'circuit constitutional point of view; as affecting the puts. .staiiiii. ' lf it hid been his object to , gratify any memoirs , law of the country. maligiant motive (he was not then speaking . as to Mr. WHITBREAD rose to shorteat the debate, the propriety of his conduct), be was of opinion he and•save the tune of the House, by stating the view , • ' would have adopted very different measures. He whichh - ! now tookof the subject. The Chancellor of the was not the advocate ór the Noble LOrd ; under all Exchequer . appeared to him to take that ground been the circumstances, lie thought his conduct in spre lithich alone any cavil could be raised against his rim senting the Narrative such - as no matt could IhO. don; in stating that he had not given the House yes roughly approve—(Hear, Hear, Hear,) —but it 're= terday to understand, that be intended to bring on the =tined to be seen what degree of mature he 'pistil , minion this day. whether the papers were distributed deserve. He would try the dates to see whether or tiot or ode. He certainly had not expressed himself peei any malignant motive towards Sir Richard Strachan tive on the subject; but conceiving that they would could be fairly imputed t r im . If the Narratift be distributed, he went oat of the - House for some was intended to injure the' cter of -that 'Officer, time, and called at the Vote Office to learn whether they • why in the 'name of fortune c o l t i ta a 4 sense did he keep' were distriliuted or not. Upon hi:return to the House, it back at all ? On what prinilplelould it be supposed' his friends told him that it had been settled in his ab that he delayed to present it till the 15th of January t once, that the motion should positively come on this If it were intended to injure Sir Richard Strachan day, and in that persuasion he had irmained in the privately, would Lord Chatham ever have recalled it House till a late hour. He thought, however, that with a view to have it published ? For the situation when hr constructed his Resolutions in such a m a n ner , is which the Noble Lord stood, he (th: Chancellor ot that they alluded - to nothing which passal in the evi the EXcheteuer) fat Missal' to be in some degree re. dance r iven taro* the fritie f eacept one welitarypitssago, sponsible ; and unless his mind changed very much , which ' Members could be informed of in the twinkling he would never place an Officer in a similar situa• of an eye, there would have been no objection on this tion, to unite in himself the Cabinet Minister with ground. The only paseage in the evidence cd the F.Ttli the General Officer. The inconveniencies arising which was alluded to, was that in which his Lordship out of that circumstance, which he had not antici- stated, " that he did not know what alterations had pated, were of such magnitude (though there was been made in the original plan." Now although the nothing unconstitutional in such an appointment), papers containing this evidence had not been printed that he would never again blend the two characters. Ind regularly distributed, yet the evidence itself was if at a future period a Member of the Cabinet should :n writing on their table ; and as thesmaterial part be thought a proper person to conduct an Expedi- of it was not more than seven lines in length, he tion, he would wish his functions as a Cabinet thought that any Member could, at a single glance , _ Minister to be suspended for the time. The Noble have th is information. When the Right Honourable Lord, acting as he did, was certainly not correctly Gentleman, however, proposed toudjeurn the debate right, but it was not fair thence to argue that on till Monday, it would be recollected that at the time of his making that Motion, he gave notice that it *bra any question lie could give advice without his col.: leagues being acquainted with the circumstance.— his intention, upon that day, not to rneej the question fairly, but to endeavour to get rid of it by moving He might have been in some degree driven into the measure by the popular feeling excited against him. the previous question. For fear, however, that it It was not too much to say, that after the evidence might be said that he took the House by surprise, he had been given 'at their Bar, the current of public in= was pot% ready to consent to the adjournment wail dignation running unjustly strong against him (unjust Monday, on the express condition, however, that it it was, for he contended that there were no reasons should be perfectly understood that it. should on that for imputing misconduct to him), it was not uana- day have precedence of any other business. tural for the Noble Lord to think it would not be General GROSVENOR said, that he was perfectly prudent to produce his case or defence, before he convinced , t hat the more the character ot his Noble knew what counter-statements were to be made, that Friend (Lord Chatham.) was sifted and examined, the such might not appear to answer his. Again he more would the House satisfied with the conduct wished the House to observe he was not the advo-. of the Noble Earl: 1 cate of the Noble Lord ; though in the view he took General LoFrus said, that : hi *certainly 'fiaa of his conduct be could see error, he could: not consent understood that the House had an assurance froti to bestow the epithets proposed ; lie could not accede the Honourable Gentleman's (Mr.,Whitbritd's) troll to the resolutions. He did not wish to evaOe the mouth, that the guestion would not have come oir subject, he merely wished to give the House a fair this night. opportunity of reviewing the evidence. Be had no 'The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER objection to state what line of conduct he inte was ready to give the question the precedence on nde pursue on Monday. He should move the previous q u , s Monday ; but at the same time he observed, that there tion. The narrative had been spoken of as if it ha. was a notice of a motion of the Honourable Baronet been constructed with a view of creating differences (Sir Francis Burdett), for that day. between the Army and Navy ? There were no more Mr: CREEVEY, in the absence of the Honourable grounds for such a statement than if the substance of Baronet, postponed that motion till Thursday, and the debate on Mr. Whitbread's motion was adjour- Thethat Narrative had been given in evidence at the bar. Honourable Gentleman had stated the paper to tied till Monday. have been drawn up by the Noble Lord, at a time TREATY WITH PORTUGAL. . when he knew that Ministers were deterniined to The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER grant no inquiry. He denied the truth of that asser- wished to postpone the consideration of the question Lion. It was determined to give the House such pa- which stood for this day, because no opportunity had peps as would prove that no culpability attached it- been afforded of laying the papers relative to the ee self to the army or navy long before the paper was pence of maintaining the t roo p s p r oposed to be token delivered. It was for the House to determine on into the pay of Great Britain on the table. He hoped calling for more ; but, unsolicited, it was lee intention they would bore-ady on Monday, and as it was desi of Government to give some at least. ' Gentleenen, rable that the discussion should not arise until those however, on the other side, thought they had nothing papers had been received, he should propose that the to do but•to wait to see what Government did,' and consideration be put off till Friday next. then, whatever line Of conduct they might adopt, con- Mr. PONSONBY thought that it would be better demo their measures, and assert, that had the con- J that the further discussion of bis Honourable Friend's trary course been pur,sued,all would have been well. motion shouldnot be prevented on Monday, and there -If the Noble Lord (Chatham) had merited the im- fore was ter the delay proposed, • putations thrown out agaihet him, he (the'Cliantellor The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER of the Exchequer) would • h4'ire said, that he ought was desirous that nothing should-intervene to prevent ' no longer to haie been a colleague of hii. But under the discussion. the present ',CirOnnstances, if 'Ministers had acted 1 After eime further observatitts from Mr RTDIM so, and. said he. should no longer have remained. and Mr. PONSONBY (Who wished it to be understood one ot theitnunilitr, it NvOld directly have been im- that the Inquiry into the Scheldt Expedition sh ou ld puted to them that ifiel hacl 04sscly takeo advantage ' stand for Tuesday, provide,: the debate on Monday . • Cas , whew