Star. — London, England, 1814-05-24 00:00:00

-- -- -- - - rat 4 medical assistance if he had required it, but that was pro 11 ' not what he wanted. He wished to have air auel ex- the - ercise for the benefit of his health. It was•needless to 'sw say that this could not he granted. • But how many of persons were there deprived of air and'exertise, per- an I haps for Much less cause, and with much less health R and strength to bear it than Mr. de Berenger. As ri to the prodigious hardship of his not being able to go w: about the country to find out persons whom he could not describe, a, point much insisted on by the Hon. w Mover, it was- to be considered that every prisoner lal confined for debt was exposed to the same inconveni- In ence.. - One circumstance would serve to shew the co- gi 1 lour which vi as given to his case by the Hon. Gentle- G man ; and in the Petition it was said that he was , con - gl d• . fined or. the Felon side of Newgate. Now it happen- E ed that ell the letters from him to the Secretary of et i State, even one written yesterday, were dated from g • 0 the State side of Newgate." So far from the apart. ai :went in which he was confined being small or had; it, T 1 11 1 1 1 !: ' was about as large as one-third of the House of Com - Wi b ons, and from the- time that be had been confined, ( no one had been -introduced tohim whom.he did not h wish to have adhaitted.—(llear, hear.) —Nay, people rr had come from Dover and Rochester to see him, and p .on his refusing 'to bare the& admitted, they were ob - a bged . to go away - without getting a 'sight of h i m .— a money c rics of Hear, hear. ) — He had already stated his a, . money had beet! returned to him, that was, the ft ainatint4lB6,.elthotegh not in the very notes taken c k from hi So. taseeltus to the facts. They proved v that there kras no cause hr the appointment of a Gem- ti mittee on the -grounds alleged by the Hon. Gentle- a man. The intervention of the House was not neces- g eery to procure fot Mr. de Berenger the redress which c he required. e Me.- ABERCROMBIE was surprised at the as. 1 . 1 d stimption of the Right Hon. Gentleman who spoke last, that there had been no cause of complaint respect- ( ing the way in which the Alien Act had been put in f force. He maintained, that there were many in- I stances within his own knowledge, of persons being c most vexatiously treated under the alleged authority ii of this Act. .I'e woulfl ask the Secretary of State to s point out one sentence in the Alien Act, authorising a the seizure of papers ? To justify what had been it done in the present case, it was necessary to prove r that it would be inconsistent with sefety to the State t to return Mr. de Berenger his paperr The very cir- r i cumstance of Mr. de Berenger being confined was enough to shew, that his case was one of peculiar I aggravation, and on this ground he supported the t motion. Mr. BATHURST explained. . I Mr. Alderman C. SMITH had seen De Berenger t in Newg..te, where he was in a. most comfortable c 1 Apart:neat, well furnished and %tell aired. - On being. 1 asked how he was treated, he said that it was impcis- e di sib,e that any one in such a situation could be better s treated. r Sir SAMUEL ROMILLY could not conceive a how the Secretary of State had any authority by the c Alien Act to seize pepers. The general practice of .1 the office did not even authorise such seizure and de- I tention. Indeed it appeared to him, from the way .1 in which the Right Hen. Gentleman opposite had I argued,- that he had confounded the case of an arrest • on a criminal charge with that of an arrest under the 1 Alien Act. ! I Mr. P. MOORE thought it appeared from the cir - , cumstances of the case that De Berenger had been i I seized on account of his having been supposed to have 1 hoaxed a body of professed Hoaxers—the Stock Ex- i 1 . chahge Committee.—(Laughing.)—Mr. Taileirand, 1 the present Minister of France, had been subjected to i the operation of this same Alien Act, with this dif- ference, that the Government by sending him out of . • I the country merely afforded him means to escape from his creditors hare.—He wished to ask the Right 7 Honourable Gentleinan opposite, whethei the trunks of Mr. de Berenger had not been deposited in the Se- cretary of State's Office ? and whether the warrant for his arrest had not been issued on the application of . the Stock Exchange Committee? Also, whether,'when the trunks were opened, some of The Members of that Committee had not been sent kir to be present? Mr. H. A DDINGTON,—It wasquite newt° him to hear that the trunks had been conveyed to the Se- cretaty of State's Office, and lie firmly believed that they were not, as he had not heard that they were. No application had been made by the Stock Exchange Committee for a warrant to apprehend Mr. de Be- tenger. Mr. P. MOORE repeated his last question about the opening of the trunks. Mr. H. ADDINGTON repeated that he never beard thai the trunks were taken Oa the Secretary cf , State's Office. Mr. WYNNE did not see that the question could be decided before a Secret Committee. The only way by which it could in his opinion be decided was, by Mr. de Berenger entering into a prosecution against the Secretary of State. Supposing that the papers bad been legally seized, that might be very good ground for Mr. de Berenger to prosecute the Secre- tary of State, but surely it was no reason why the papers should not be used in t prosecution against de Berenger by other persons. . Mr. BAT HURsT explained ; he had not argued the question upon whether or not it might be dan- gerous to the State to set Mr.' de Berenger at liberty. Mr. STUARI WORTLEY thought that after the declination made by the Right Honourable Gen - -4 Liman, on his official tespoosibility, and after the vadubitisfah facts which had come out, there was oo cause why the House should interfere, by appointing • such a Comniittee as had been moved for. - i. Sir JOHN NEWPORT wa s of opinioa that the i i case clearly reepiird d the interference of the House. Mr. WIL BERFORCE was against• the motion, on the ground that there was no proof that the Secre. cry of Slate had made an improper use of the power with %Inch he was entrusted. . t ,Mra BA RHAM declared, that although he felt no I / ; / s ympathy far Mr. de Berenger , yet aware that if the violation of the law and personal liberty were tole- r rated with regard to the worst man iu society, the . precedent might be acted ripen towards the very best, he thought it his duty to vote for the motion , By • , the opponents of the motion an apprehension was ' • stated that public inconvenience might- result from Oat appointment of the proposed Committee, but it appeared that in the only instance quoted of a similar taeumnsittee, no inconvenience whatever had occurred; *maw the apprehension expressed was not war- . ranted by any experience. He concluded, with ex pressing his astonishment at the professed filability of lle.Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Addington) to an-o mei the question put to him respecting the nature of the communications between the Secretary of State Ind the Committee of the Stock Exchange, as the Night Honourable Gentleman ought not to be igno- Int of the transactions, of the office with which he was officially connected. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, that if it was argued that the warrant for the apprehension of Mr. De Berenger was issued or obtained under false retences, he would refer those who went on this ground to the solemn assertion of the Right Hon. Gentleman—that Dc Berenger had been arrested on grounds quite different-from the affair of the Stock Exchange. The Secretary of State was not only competent to detain the papers found on De Berea. ger, but it was his duty to detain and preserve them, 'and if he did not he would act criminally—(Hear.) The Learned Gentleman said, that the question which he had put the other night to the Hon. Gentleman •Mr Whitbread) had been much misrepresented by I. him, when he stated it as an 'attempt to puzzle and mislead the House, and perplex the understanding of plain, simple country Magistrates. He had directly asked him, if he did not conceive it would be his-duty as - a Magistrate to have the papers seized of a person against whom he should grant a warrant on a charge of felony ? The Learned ,Gentleman concluded with de claring that he was happy to find the conjectures-which were formed of the improper conduct of the Secre tary of State had turned out to be totally fallacious, and that no person had been admitted to De Beren ger since his confinement but those whom. fie had chosen to see. There was certainly naground what ever for the motion, and therefore he should dissent from it. Mr. HORNER was of opinion that the Learned Gentleman had only restated what he had said be fore, and hid left De Berenger in the hands of his Hon. Friend, on whose protection he seemed to have cast himself. But he trusted the House would bear in mind, that the time would soon arrive when the subject would be sifted to the bottom, and he would assert that Pt would most materially *ndon its duty if it did not gall for a full explanation why De. Be renger was arrested under the Alien Act, and whe ther it were trie that the cause of his arrest had no relation to the occurrence at the Stock Exchange. Mr. CHARLES GRANT opposed the motion. He could see no reason whatever for entering into the Secret Committee. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL declared, that he should be extremely concerted it it were possible that any thing he had said on this subject could have operated to the prejudice of the person in question. Nc:thet on this ifor on any other occasion had he ever directed an, sarcasms, or excited prejudice against the obscure, distressed, or unfortunate. He niust acknowledge, however, that he had fallen into a great mistake the other night, by confounding the contents of the Petition with the observations of the .Hon. Gentleman %% ho had . presented it. By this mistake, he had sup that .the Bea-notes had ,not been returned to ed llereotter.. If he.had under stood that De . Berenger had applied for the peculiar ;,auk-notes which had been taken from him, he should have been convinced at once that he had some particular lowan for wishing to obtitip As to the qition bdore the House—the allegation that De bcrenger was apprehended by the Secretary of State's warrant, only because he was implicated in the Stock Exchange fraud, had turned to be com /, pletelytAlacious : his arrest had nothing to do with, that affair: and after what had transpired of De Be.. renger's conduct, he would say, that the Secretary oft ./State wonlil have been deficient in his duty Wile had not sent his warrant for his apprehension. It was for his supposed good conduct that he was allowed the enlarged license granted to Aliens, and with this, indulgence he aflerwards so conducted himself as to 'become a dangerous -character. If he had been, found attempting to mislead the officers command ing his Majesty's fleets, at a most important and aw ful- moment, and not succeeding, had returned to London, and was found acting so as to induce sus. picion that he was misleading the public mind by tte promulgation of false facts, and this moreover at a period when any brave man's rashness or coward% fear might have produced the most fatal cons.. quences, he would ask, where is the person to be, found who would justify his being left at large ? He, is found at length at a distant sea-port, trying to escape from the kingdom ; and in this situation, it was an imperative duty in . the Secretary of State to bring him back. Under all the circumstances, thi; Officer of the State was fully justified in detaining his papers ; for it would have been a gross derelic tion of duty to have given them back to him for the purpose of enabling him to destroy them. Lord MILTON said, if certain persons would pledge themselves tl.at in a future Session a full in quiry should be made into this subject, he would be content to vote against the motion of his Honourable Friend on- the floor, otherwise he would take the op, polite course. - • Ur. H. 'AD DI NGT ON wished tostate, that ap. plitations had 'been made to the Secretary of State y Gentlemen connected - with the Stock Exchange to detain De Berenger, to which no answer had been returned—(Hear, hear.) They had also requested the Secretary of State to prosecute him. To this it was merely answered, prosecute him yourselves, as you can." --(Hear, hear.) Mr. WHITBREAD replied.--He said, that a Meat deal of responsibility bad been cast upon him upon this occasion. When he was first asked, whe ther he thought this was a case for a motion to be *lade in Parliament? he answered, that certainly it was not ; but that if any petition was drawn up, -imalched in decent language, and complaining of any tealgrievance, he should have no objection to present it. For twenty-three years a sort of despotic power had been given the Crown with respect to Aliens, to which there was no other check than the responsibi lity of Ministers. Although the case of Colville was the only one that, before this, was brought before the consideration of Parliament, yet it could not bt doubted bat that in twenty-three years there mug, -hove been many abuses of this power. tie kne that ;hare were cases of the most capricious ezercis' of One man had been refused the liberty of gt. iogto,asighton to bathe; and he believed there wa an islympt of a tiddler, who for playing 04 of top at p ;own Was not 011,4401'0 %Itchy of. the p*, lege of being at liberty. In reek ;lion t i behinforma .1 lion given by one alien again* audible, often froml motives of private gigue, the pqrson accused was often consideredgaggerons. and undeservidg.of dulgence. He plic•Z very little weight on, use com plimentary letters written by be Berenger On his treatment. Many • poor Aliens signed - theiltleiveSo your devoted humble..i.crvant;! Thorp their hearts they cursed the persona they were addressing. The Hon. Gentleman, late Member for Yorkshire (Mr. Wilberforce) must in his researches have read of many slaves in the Colonies. who, while flogged, cried, 14 Tank you, massa!" They felt no gratitude for the stripes, but thought this the best way of dis arming the anger of those who inflicted them. Ave Hon. and Learned Gentleman (the Attorney-Gene ral) had such an excessive susceptibility, that it was hard to know how to please him. If he was not answered, he complained that his arguments had little weight in that House : if he was answered, he felt equally sore. What was to be ildife in such a case ? Should he speak. or should he be silent ? If he spoke—[The Attorney-General said something *cross the House which could not be heard.]-- 46 You see how it said Mr. Whitbread, al if I Ipelik, he must speak at the same time."—(if loud He never did represent him as a cunning lawyer,. puzzling magisirates ; he rather considered him as a grave and oracular kind of a lawyer. He praised his Majesty's Ministers for selecting a lawyer, not only' of such great endowments, but such extraordinary learning, to place in that high situation. After re- plying to the abjection: made by different Members; he said, that, as a Member of Parliam6t, be was not satisfied with the bare assertion of Minhters, but' thought that an inquiry was necessary. The House then divided.—For the motion. 32 against it, 157. . • . CORN IMPORT The House went into a Committee on the Corn Importation Bill, when Mr. Husrassow proposed an Amendment, which went to fix a day for the farther discussion of the Bill next week ; the Bill was then forwarded through the Committee. • CORN • EXPORT 1111,L. On the motion that this Bill be re.id a second time— Mr. ROSE said he wished to propose a clause by way of rider, which would go to state the price at which Corn should be, when allowed to be etported. On this 'occaston he would merely ask the Honour able Gentleman opposhe, whether this were a 5t time to force so important a measure on the conside ration of the House, when his Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer was too indisposed to attend ? • Sir H. PARNELL interrupted the Right Hon. ,the to say, t hat he should certainly force oil , the question, conceiving that the presence or the ab. absence of the Chancellor of the Exchequer would' 'have no particular influence on the Bill in its present stage. . *Mr. ROSE declared he would make his solemn protest against it, as one of the most mischievousl measures which had ever been brought beore that House. We were now about to allow the export tif- Corn at all times, and under all 'circumstances, and' he was-inre that neither the Hon. Baronet, nor lordly 'a Member of that House, were aware of what they were going to do. He would risk his life that if the Bill had been postponed, and a Committee appoint ed, that such proofs would have been adduced as would have made them pause instead of hurrying so vital a measure. Were Gentlemen aware that on some occasions foreign corn had been imported, and .afterwards exported at 15s. a quarter higher than its • importation price ? and were they:aware - to what this might lead ? He would incur the imputation of fac ticn, or any other imputation, rather than see a men! sore Of this injurious tendency .thus precipitately carried : what, he would ask, would be the feelings of the colliery on seeing quantities of awn going out of the country in times of scarcity„ and going too, at high prices ? 'The Right Hon. Gentleman then read a paper which he had sent to the Custom House, wr believe in 1805, in proof that it was necessary to stop the export of corn at that period. He then resumed his objections to the Bill, and contended that we were going to do away A system that had existed for 4.00 years. Precautions bad always been deemed necessary to prevent quantities ot corn from going out of the country, and now we were breaking into the system at once,- at the moment when the King has the power to stop the exportation ; and this inno vation we were making on such evidence as no Par lament had ever yet acted u po n since the beginning' of time. The Right Hon. Gentleman, after many similar observations, concluded with saying that bss rider was intended to give the King a power, with the advice of his Privy touncit, to stop the exporte,i. tion whenever the exigencies Auf ase.cpuntry.might require it. He was satisfied with baying done Ins duty in opposing this Bill ; and U . it be suffered to pass, all he. hoped was, chit it might *alio pioTsiuc, live of serious injury o oteeottnirr..., - ,• ' ... Sir JOHN NEW PO' V coniended•thit.if spy fit: tality should arise under the Bill, all that was neceb sary was for Ministers to act upon their,own respon sibility, and then come to Parliament,for indemnity. If the power proposed by this Right Hon ! Gentleman' be given to the Executive, it would be so exercised as to be materially injurious to the objects of the-Bill ; and for his own part, if he were not fully. satisfied that the measure would produce amore regular supply Of corn at fair and equable prices, he would be the last man to wish it to pass. . . • • Mr. D. GIDDY had no. objection to the Right Hon. Gentleman's rider, provided he would fix the price, and legit be a high one. • . . General FURBES spoke in favour of a' further ;protraction of the measure, as many Member.; Wad i , hen left the .House;under an understanding that tile .*.al would not• be discussed that evening. He should therefore propose as an Amendment, that the third reading of the Bill be postponed till Thursday next. Mr. ROSE, in explanation, said, he should be glad to advise with Gentlemen about what price the expor .ttion ought to be limited to. Mr. HI PARNELL was surprised that the Right , lon. Gentleman had not brought forward 'his clause a an earlier stage of-the Bill. He shou l d feel it bis uty to take the sense ot the House on the subject. Gelienti FORBES,.after a few words, columned bb .ithdraw his Amendment. ' • Mr. •LUSIONUNTON spoke in favour of the . ;111, 'contending that It would not fail to render corn ailladant and cheap. Ht should vote for Mr. Has. kisson!s. schedule. Mr. WESTERN ? itieited his ranter sentiments in favour of the Bill, and opposed the clause of Mr. Rose, on the ground that it would. place Iht power directly is the hands of the- Privy Council. He. however. did not wholly approve of the Bill, but would ratismemilopeolispraiedb meet as had been proposed by X l VTii i . i t a efl nd be- hind him.--( We understood him to allude AO 'some amendment preplan*** former eveeing.) Mr. BIirANP was sure that the onlyobject of every • Member , wakto 411141 re a courant supply-of c,.rn at. a fair price. and to hold out a fair encoorageiment for capital in agriculture. He was not for hurrying the •snea sure, as it would be most satisfactory to . the cpuntrg to see that the . House did not run headlong inch a pro. ject in which they could not have any personal Vierf. Mr. CANNING was of opinion, that if it were in, cessary to limit this Bill also with regulations of prices it would be better to withdraw it Altogether, •and bring in a new one, which might be subject to discus. sloth in a Committee. His objection to therlause was, that it pointed out needlessly to the Executive Go rernment that which it was their duty to do, and which Parliament would indemnify them for doing. It were much better for the Executive to act on its own responsibility ; but this would not be a clause of dis cretion, but a clause of enactment. If the clause with the proposed amendment Were added to the Bill, he thought it would be necessary that the measure should he recast, re-modelled altogether. He was content with the Bill as it at present stood, but if the clause and amendment were adapted it could not long cwt. tinue the same. , The SPEAKER thought it would be proper to decide on the third reading of the Sill. and take the clause into consideration when it wa =geed. Mr.,CANN ENG explained. . . The House divided—For the thirds read* of the Bill, lo7—Against it, 27—Majority; 80, Oh re-entering the gallery, we found Mr. PON, SONBY on his legs opposing the clause of Mr. Ross, whichhad been moved whilestrangers were excluded. He thought to provide that Ministers might, under certain circumstances, stop the importation of Corn, would prove an unavailing elmennent. The best se. curity the country could have in extraordinary times, would be found in the courage of the Executive Go. vernment ; mother safeguard would be efficient.-,. He wished the . evottation of Corn to be left as free as possible,, . Kr. Alderltimi ATKINS was cd opinion this coun try could not become i great exporting country. In fairness; this Bill ought to go band in hand with the other; but he was of opinion it would be well that no alteration in the Corn Laws should now be made. He could not see. that any danger was to be appre hended from letting the question stand over till the next Session of Parliament, So important a chapge ' in the Corn Laws might to be made with the tunscst deliberation, and after the most mature reflectir.n.— To hiirry a measure like this through Parliament, could not be satisfactory to the country. Sir H. Pi\RNELI. denied that the Bill had Seen hurried through the House. The 'Right Hon. tleman who had stated this measure would produce 'incalculable mishief, was completely answered by the -last speaker, who, asserting this 'country could Rot .becorne an exporting country, had preiVed, such evils a! the Right Holt. Gentleman had apprehended were 'not to be feared. ' Sir C. MONCK, thought the best murky against excess of exportation, would be found in the comps. move lowness of price in the foreign market. Mr. ROSE observed, that at Amsterdam wheat was 10s. a (patter dearer than its our own market ; mod that if they would grant him a Committee. he wonid ptoduce a hundred similar instances: • • Sir C.. MONCIC. replied, that admitting the state. melt of the Right lion. Gentleman to be correct, it did not invalidate his argument. It would cost 10 or 15s. per quarter freightage, which, with some port duties and insurance, would still render British Corn dearer than Foreign in the foreign market, Mr. Alderman ATKINS explained. Mr. LUSHINGTON stated, that in France wheat was sold for 88s. per qaarter ; and at Riga, Coutland wheats at 475. Mr. CANNING observed, that though be consi, dered the clause perfectly unnecessary, because it professed to bestow a power which already existed, l yet. if the adopting it without any amendment would be any cousolation to the Right Hon. Gentleman, or any relief to the alitrm that had been excited out of doors, he should have no objection to its ineorpora tion with the Bill. Mr. .1.. P,. GRANT. sajoktilat one powerfej reason with him for trot krgreeitig sAth the clause was pre cisely that which induced the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr.Cahning) to Stipp:in it, because it was pertectly unnecessary. He had .another objection also. The clause would not.only produce po good effect, but i; ~would produces very. bad effect. It !mold create fears in the agriculturist, wliile the object of this measure was to give him confidence—(lfear)—aza "It would, •oso far, do away the beneficial tendency of it altogether. It was the bounden dint of the En. &Rive Government, and it .was always in Sts power, r.to stop the exportation of corn when occasion should .call for it.,..and. krk . with perfect confidence to that 'House for mai:tinny.. The tears ' entertained could be Oaf chi Tana Of ignorance, and he hoped they had•been excited too by ignorance ; bat he was sure they= had been -provoked by very improper means, hlr..liVr.sTMlX and Mr. D. CaDDII opposed the clause. The gallery was then cleared, but no division tool; place; the'clanse was rejected and the pill was pissed = ArrIttTiCILS The House having taken into further consideratipr, the Report of the. Apprentices Bill,, on the motion of Mr. Serjeant Osstow the Bill was ordered Lo be re cpintnitted on Monday, the 6th . of June. The other Orders of the'Day were then disposed of. an 4 at twelve o'clock the _House adjourned. wrsown oy Tim viz, itedi pglimiTTING Tlik IrillE LXI PQIITATIOX or Coley : Modish Foikrs F. Moore ' Le Fevre c. Cuing Wilt ios "'WTI Protbrroe Porter arm tlorthey I.ock hart Harm . Stevenu Dowdrirell Larder Doris White lie*. Scott Wilberforce Sir James Shaw Mivin liabington Lord t:.ine:ifl L **land Marjortbank. 11. 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