Star. — London, England, 1803-12-13 00:00:00

pitulated all his arguments, placed Anne of them in new points of view, and concluded by obferving, that onlefs he heard fume ftronger objedions to the meafure than thole which had been urged', he Ihould think it his duty to perlilt in prefiing the Houle to a further conlideration of the queltion. The CIIANCELLOZ of the EXCNICISPIL Lid, he fhould fe(l himfelf cheerfully difpnfed to concur in any eligible meafure that would give them the means of improving their difcipline, or adopting any regu lation for that purpofe, which they might be difpof ed to accept, with good effea ; but he had his doubts of the practicability of going to the extent propofed by the Right Hon. Gentlemen in giving Field Officers, in any neceffary proportion, to fo nu. memos a body as the Volunteers of the United King. dont, compofed of a number not lefs than 430,000 Men, which, divided into battalions of Soo men each tipon an average, would conftitute 860 battaliops, to 'each of which it would be impraaicable, continently 'with the fervice of the line, to afford a Field Officer. it had been (aid, that the half-pay lilt would afford, )f drawn on , a confiderable (apply of officers fuitable Tor this purpofe. But the fad is, that the half pay %ill had Keen already drained of fo great a number for other branches of the fervice, and was thereby In much reduced, as net to afford any number at all approaching to the proportion which fuch a regula tion would demand. To meet fuih an exigency, if it were to be adopted, recourfe mint be had to the re gular regiments, at prefent confiding of about 7o bat talions of infantry, and a 6 of cavalry ; and from thefe it would be neceffary to take eight O ffi cers from each battalion, which would go direaly to weaken the re gular forces in one of the molt effential points of their strength. The Right Hon. Gentleman had fuggefied, that old Captains would anfwer every purpofe of Field Officers, if the latter could not be (pared. But when it was confidered. how rarely all the neeeffary qualifications of a Field Officer were united in an in dividual, and particularly for a fervice which requir. ed fo much temper, judgment, moderation, and addrefs. to take the direaion of Officers and Corps fo conaruaed as thofe of the Volunteers, fuch men fo qualified could not be taken from the regular ar my, without doing that branch of the fervke an injury almoll irremediable. Such Officers would in deed be calculated to lead any troops to glory ; but they bad formed their ideas of glory upon very diffe. rent grounds from thofe on which they might be called to as ; and fit far from adding by fuch a roes lure, to the arength of your force. we fhould tate from the regular army, that which coollitutes the tffence of its ftrength. Asother eireuntflance had recently reached his knowledge, which was. that the Captains of Volunteer Corps would not take it well to be fuperfeded in their authority. by the ap pointment of Field Officers over them ; becaufe, in fad, fuch a meafure would be contrary to the ori ginal cornpaa under which thofe corps were formed, namely, the attachment of the individuals who com mand the corp., who would thesnfelves be averfe to having the command of them transferred to others. The Right Hon. Gentleman did not with to give "fuel officers to any corps but thofe who willed for them ; but to this he objected, on the ground that it would place the officers in the neceffity of making propofals to the privates, which would be put to the vote; this would lead to cabals and oppofitions of fentiment. which in the end might dellroy the una nimity fo defirable to be maintained, and finally be productive of Serious anifcbief. There were the grousis on which he differed from the Right Hon. Gentleman in that part of his Ratement. But, with refped to every other means of improving the difci pline of the Volunteer Corps, which enabled us, at this day, to look with a proud defiance at the me naces of the enemy, he could have no objedion : he therefore agreed in the idea of giving to the Corps a fair proportion of Adjutants and bajeant Majors, and thought the country highly indebted to thole from whom the fuggeftion came. He approved alfo the fuggeftion of joining all (mall Corps in one vici nage into battalions, and that they fhould occafion ally derive every aid from the infpedion and direc tion of the Generals of the Army, Rationed in their retpedive diarias. But the idea of depriving the regular army of itt Field Officers, for the purpofe of attaching them entirely to Volunteer battalions, he could not approve. The Right Honourable Gentle man had alluded to the regulation adopted in the Militia Regiments La year, allowing the admiflion of Officers from the half-pay to commands in the Militia, but reariaing the Lord Lieutenants of coun ties from giving to Etch Officers any command be yond the rank of Captains; and argued. that no ob jcdion was entertained by the fubalterns and privates in fuch regiments agaiaa tbe promotion of thole offi cers. He begged, however, to obferve, that this promosion to the rank of Captain in fuch cafes was only where nu qualified Gentleman of the coonty could be gat to accept the Commitfion. But there was a material difference between the nature of the corps; the Militia regiments were for the molt part compofed of ftibllitutes taken from the lowea order of the community ; whereas the Volunteer Corps were compofed from men of all chafes, many tithe= the mull refpeaable, and therefore the fame Ingo ;tient could nut apply to both, in the cafe either of officers or privates ; and upon this ground, he dill feted from the Right Honourable Gentleman, with velpea to the measure now in view. With regard to the deficiencies in the regular troops of the country, as compared with the number voted in the ellimate -tow before the Houfe, he believed it would be found ouch lower than ufual upon a comparifon of ((fee ,ive force, with the estimates upon homer occations. Cm under the head of Artilltry, when the calumet seas fur 13.000 men, the deficit was only 48o; that regular army did not exceed scoo ; and with Miser% to that of the Militia, he bad every reaton to hope that in the emir& of the approaching recefs, ample means would be taken, under the 'exertions cf Gentlemen throughout the country, to complete this branch r.f i:.e public force. Mr. PITT explained. by difelaiming any fuch idea as that quellioos were to be put to the privates of Volunteer Corps, for their acceptance of Field Of Been; it was for the diredioo of the Officers of filch corps only, that he meant the benefit of Field Offi cers, and to them only that the choice Mould be re ferred. The Cosscrsiot of the Esc' , F e t y is replied, that Otis objeition was, that thole Officers might come to decitions in Inch cafes, co/aunty to the •ithes of slack Caps. • . , , Mr. Woman regretted the tilisfortune of dig f et i n g liv,pinion from the Right Hon. Gentle Man under the Gallery (Mr. Pitt) upon any topic ; but this occafion he muk differ from him mo ma. terially. His with was to render the Volunteer force as efficiest as potfible, by rendering its dif. etpline as perfea as was praCticable; but he, (Mr. Windham), however he might coincide with the Right Hon. Gentleman, in wifhing to render the force as e f f i cient as poflib le, for the purpofe it was intended, differed with him widely as to the general praaicability of the project. The Right Hon. Gentle. man poffibly imagined, that becaufe a portion of this force had, under the aufpices of his own talents and perfevering affiduity (under which every thing mull improve which he undertook), been brought to a confiderable degree of perfeCtion ;—trained, as they were, in a poll of danger, and in continual view of the enemy; excited to the necellity of difcipline un der the immediate care of the Right Hon. Gentle. man himfelf, and with the high authority and advan tages he polfeffed ; yet he conceived the Right Hon. Gentleman was much deceived, if he imagined the fame thing was pralticable generally throughout the Country. But he himfelf had decided objeetions to the whole Volunteer Sytlem altogether. He was afraid of it as an armed democracy, from which, in his view, much mifchief was to be hereafter appre hended to the country. He objeeted to it as generally interfering with the fettled order of fociety in the country, becaufe it took away from the ufeful handi craft labourers highly neceffary to the manufaetures, trade, and profperity of the country; becaufe it pro duced a confolion of all racks in fociety, and of all diitinaions in life ;—becanfe it tended to depreciate all ellimation of rank in the army, by the dikribu tion of Military Commiflions to low mechanics, and men of no refpea. Another objet was, the drat it would have on the (pink of the country, and the tendency it would have to humble the fpirit, or vitiate the principles of the Regular Army ; and, laaly, for its inefficiency to the purpofes for which it was propofed.. Mr. Windham then proceeded, in a fpeech of confiderable length, to amplify the opinions he had before expreffed, in condemnation of a public force, conftituted as that of the Volun teers appeared to his vitw ; and he argued, that if the fyttem had been taken from one of the Pigeon holes is the bureau of dflbey .s . ga himfelf, it could not have been more completely organized for a revolu tionary democraery of armed - men. It elected its own Officers, and afterwards debated in committees (computed of a fubaltern, non.commiffionesl Officers and pnvates) whether they fhould obey or cathier thole Officers. The whole bufinefs of each Corps was directed by cabals and debating focieties of this fort; and nothing was to be done, nor a movement made, without a queßion, a difeuiron and a vote in this Committee. This even the Right Hon. Chancellor of the Exchequer admitted in his fpeech this night ; for it appeared, his principal objection to the propofid of * Right Hon. Gentleman under the gallery, for allowing Field Officers to Volunteer Battalions, was, left the privates might be difpleafed with fuch ap pointments; or the Officers, in accepting them, ex. ercife a difcrction offenfive to thofe under their cons. mend. Here then was avowed one of the effects which he feared fo much, and which proved to him, they were Co cooßituted as to be utterly incapable of the difcipline and fubordination indifpenfably necef &try to an cffedive army,on which any reliance could be placed. Many might think the adage ex rani:hat, &e. &e. might be applied to an army; bat to the volunteer force he would apply the homely Englifh adage—" You can't make a in porfe of a row's ear." In fad, it would not do :—it was not COllll. poled of fuch materials as were neceffary to the condi. anion of an army. Subordination was not to be ex. petted from them, for their Officers were fubordinate to their Committees, and they were to be calhiered for mere whim or caprice ; poffibly becaufe there was fomething objectionable in the cut of their beard; and in a corps of 6o or 70, which he knew, a 4 of them threatened to withdraw if their Officer was not turned out. What muff be the confequence if thofe men were blended with the regular army and the line Was there not every danger that they would neceffarily ink& them with their principles, and de- Rroy their difcipline by exciting a general fpirit of debate and cabal, fubverfive of - all order. He next adverted to the &fifteens into which military rank would fall, from the multiplicity of Colonels and Captains, and Commandants created. Every third man he met in the Rents was a Captain, clad in the fame garb, dignified with the faille title, and diain. guilhed by the fame infignia, with the illußrious ye. terans who rented their country in Egypt, who had no dillindive marks but the honourable fears received in the public caufe. He was, he laid, a Captain of Volunteers himfelf, and, probably, might be a Co. land fume time or other ; but he owned, that in the room of one of the veterans who had grown grey in the fervice, he felt OR as the trife of a fimple knight in the fame company with a duchefs : both were ityled " my Lady," sad the difference was only difeerna. ble to thole who knew the true quality of the fupe rior. By this circumfiance, he laid, the eftimation of military rank had already funk cent. per cent. and the dignity which it was hitherto conceived to confer, as fuppofed to be won by fuperior talents and !seri. torions cervices, and therefore coveted—not for the emoluments, which were often much inferior to thole 1 of an upper fervent, but for the honourable dißinc. tion which conflitnted the cheap defence of nations --was now degraded by the facility and frequency 1 in which it was to be acquired in the Volunteer Corps. Mr. Windham went over many of his argu ments on former occafions, againft the uniform, the difcipline. and the milappropriaticn of fervice, which diltinguifired the Volunteers, and concluded with raying ! be thought it his duty not to pars the prefent opportunity, without delivering his fentiments this night, in addition to what he had declared before. Mr. ERSKINE addreffed the Houle to this Aral : " The means by which the country may be moll ef fectually defended at this momentous cafis. is one of the moll important futojeds upon which this Houle can debate, and therefore one upon which no Gen tleman can Rate his opinion without being attended to. At the fame time, f &mild think it might occur to a mind much lets enlightened than that of the Hon. Gentleman, how far it is coofißent with prudence to Rate that there are differences of opinion with regard to the mode which has been adopted for our fecurity. I apprehend, we appear here to take into confideratroo how the fitlity of the country may be moi certainly • inrured; and not enter into vain and fplenetit eriticirm on what is pelt. Does the Right Hon. Gentleman mean to infult us, by telling us that the Volunteer fyftem, whatever infirmities belong to it, and what ever dangers may attend it, is a fyftem we ought to abandon, and that we ought at this moment to dd . - ' band the corps, and let about what he is pleafed to re commend? Would he, for fear of infulting the army and confounding its ranks, leave them what they would not thank him for, the privilege of fighting the whole of the French force thernfelves? It would he well if he would recoiled, that the whole of his fpeech to-night, as well as his Ipeeches on former oc cafions, tend to encourage others to write what lie fpeaks, and thus hold out an invitation to the enemy to invade us."—[A violent cry of Hear! Hear!—Mr. Windham rote to call the Hon. Gentleman to order.] —Mr. ERSKINS continued—" I fay, what patfes in this Houle, and from perfons of fuch high authority, is calculated to invite the licence of the prefs to re peat what is laid ; and I have no difficulty in Rating, that if any man was to put on paper, and print as his original fentiments. what the Right Hon. Gentleman has faid, he would be guilty of a mifdemeanour (Hear! hear !)—I apprehend that the man who would difparage the whole military force of hiscoun. try—who would confider it as in a Rate of the great en danger—and who would maintain that all we have done for our country is only likely to involve us in ruin, and is founded on a fyftem fo millaken in its principles as to lead to defirudion rather than to fafety—Such a man, I fay, is a fit °bled for anima& verfion and cenfure. The firft matter I take into confederation is this : we are to fee what the fituation of the country was when war was declared againft France. Our military force was not then fuf ficient to put the country in a Rate of fecurity : con fider the immenfe armies of France, the determina tion of the perfon at the head of the French Govern ment to ufe • ieaas for our deftrudion which never were carried fo 'nearly into effect as thole that now threaten the country. At the time when the war com menced it was neceffary, as we could not forefee whe ther the attempt would be made, that we fhould re ceive the voluntary offers of perfons coming forward for the general defence. The Right Hon. Gentleman lays he confiders this as an armed democracy. I can not conceive how it is an armed democracy, when it confi ftsof all ranks of men, and Tome of the greaten and moll opulent men in the country, all of whom receive commiffions from the Crown. When compulfory meafures are retorted to, the men may defert ; when you take men by force into the- field, you cannot have the fame reliance upon them as when their efforts are fpontaneous and free. By the prefent fyßem, all the influences of fociety are bound up together ; each man i s asmnch pledged to his companion in arms as he is to his King and Country ; each man feels he would difhonour himfelf, if, after having volunteered his fervices, he fhuuld depart from the faced pledge he bad given. On the contrary, if led out by force, he might fay, I gave no pledge. I was dragged to the Randard ; but coming forward of his own accord, his honour, character, and confiftency are intarefled, and impel him to conduit himfelf in fuch a manner as his pledge demands. With regard to the fituation of Volunteer Corps, no man can fay that a fyftem which extends to the whole population of the country is not neceffarily attended with Come difficulty. No man can fay, we are not in a choice of difficulties ; but the queftion is this, and I feel myfelf much in unifon with the Right Honourable Gentleman over the way (Mr. Pitt) at leaft with a very fmall flsadow of difference. The Right Honourable Gentleman is a friend to the volunteer fytlem, and he has furnithed a proof himfelf, and by his own example, that it is not neceffary to do what he recommends. I under- Rand he has acquired confiderabte military know ledge, and has concluded his corps to a high Rate of perfection. I apprehend, it does not require fo much military (kill for the inferior fitoarions of the army as merry teem to imagine ; you muff have perfons accuflomed to the forme and manwurres fo as to be able to teach the duty of a foldier. You mon take care in the choice of officers, not to appoint thole who confider the diffindion as a matter of va nity, end not as a pledge of duty; but it does not appear to me that it requires loch a degree of mai. tary &ill in the lower orders of the army as to call on Government to put itfelf to fuels an expense as is propofed. It it fuppofed, that Peafentry, if armed, would do all that is neceffary for the light infantry fervice. Though I do not profits much knowledge of a military life, having been at an early period only in a fubaltern capacity, yet I do know you cannot acquire and put in execution chore manmu vres which conflitote the excellency of light infan try, without being acquainted with the manoluvres of the line. It is a fyllem by which you learn to throw yourfelf into apparent irregularity, which !hall be petite regularity. It is fuppofed the minutia; of regularity is unnecelFary. I deny that there is any thing the Volunteers are invited to do, for the pur port of being brigaded and formed, which is not abfolutely effendi& in the praaice of war. I would a& any Gentleman who is a foldier, whether it would be poffible to lead a Corps into action. unlefs it was able, with precifion and without confufion, to form line into columns, to make it iticreafe or dimiaills, change front, and alter the pofition in any way which might be neceffary for Oital fervicel AU this knowledge lies in a narrow compels, it is 'Oily learnt by degrees, it may be taught by &ricotta, and when it is taught, every thing mull depend on the competency oldie perfop. I have no reafon to think that the Volunteer Corps are not capable of performing the moll citadel fervice, if they are kept op with the refpea due to them, and if they are treated with the regard to which their exertions en title them. I, for one, timid have no objection to receiving . any Field Officer ; but there is this diffi culty, it es faid, the Commanding Officer mould in vite the appointment of the Field Officer. Now it ought to be confidered that he has no authority to do fo, without fubmittiog the propofition to his men, who have the choice of all the officers. If you in. troduce a Field Officer, by the invitation ot . the Co lonel,without confulting the Corps, you break in up on the choice which the men on had. How ever, as there is no propofidon of - this fott, I forbear commenting on it. We are here on the Volunteer Syßem itfelf. The queftion is, Whether we are to abandon it or limit it I Whether we are to ad. mit, we are wrong;—and that all our efforts have not benefited the Country ? With regard to mother p6at, It dos* not fitiite ms that the psi. litary profeffinn Vrill be it all injdred by thit Of -1 tem. The Officers of Volunteer Corps have no per • manent rank ; thatigh they have the titles of Colo. tiel, Lieutenant Colonel, Captain. and Lieotenani they are merely to give refpea, and confer no rank. 1 I Ihould think, that lo far from there titles gi sing of. fence to Gentlemen of the profeffion, the army melt feel the greaten fatidadion at the idea, that iiillead of not being well forported. intlead of having their front to the enemy and difaffe.tion in their rear, they are furrounded by the whole country, affording their. every affillance they can require; for let me alh, what would an army, brave as it is, cln, if oolutnns of the enemy were to land in Devonlhire. Suffez, Hampilire, and other counties at the fame ticie! Could a regular army trop their prir,t efs without in finite mifchief ? Is it not then of ad%antage to have the inhabitants of the country, not a low rab!:le, but in all their gradations voluntarily armed in aid of the army, their officers accepting their Commiffions from the Crown, and much of this force aeting without receiving any emolument whatever. I ant ready to admit that great evils may attend this fyf. tem, but while you have fuch an enemy, with inch a population, with fuck arms, and with loch a deterrni. nation to deftroy this country, it is the belt means of defence that can be reforted to. The great objea of the Volunteer fyllem is, that the men may acquire, not the fame difcipline as the Regular Army, nut the fame fleadinefs, not the fame experience, nut the fame firmnefs, but at lean to the fpirit and feeling of foldiers, that regularity acquired by connartt habits of difcipline, which is nceeffary to . enable them to give efficient fopport to the'army. If we defired you to difcourage the army, and to look to the Volunteer fyftem only, then I admit that many of the arguments oppofed to the Volunteer fyftem would be properly oppofed; but the quettion is, whe ther it is not a molt fortunate circumilance for the country, that by a glorious and fpoutaneous effort 01; the people coming forward as one man, and fubmit ting to every privation for the purple of giving that protettion far which they have been appealed to ? 'the queftion is, whether it would have been prudent in his Majelty's Government not to have received tha offers of the Volunteer Corps, and whether they would have been juftified had they not limited the fyftem in the manner they have done? It would have been dangerous to have accepted every offer, as it would have prevented that force, fro, being fueplied, which is indifpenfibly necefary; but wlth regard to thole which have been accepted, I think t would be the greatell calamity if the Volunteers were to relax their diligence, and not do every thing to ancompliffi themfelves for the important duties they have under. taken to perform. I mall be glad to hear any proPofi f tion that will enable them more effedually toperform it. However. what I rote principally for, was to Elate to the Houfe, that I apprehend we are not here (.9 confider what would have been batter ; bat wheaktr. in the (late the country is, it is prudent et ditchargp the Volunteer torte, to confider it as dangerous, inefficacious, and ufelefs, and to infer, after all our exertions the country is in no degre o livered from its danger. For aiy own part, I can kv the tkt country as impregnable; I look upon the Volunteer force as that wloch has given ',intik to Pra9r.e... admit we mutt not relax our vigdanqc t wt m4a4- vanee in difcipline, and give to our fyilens t s4 improvement of which it is capable - we mall ourfelves of that fore; which we siertve .fram. fpostaneous diorts of the people, which • .. , 4 taxed to, but takes its own courfe . We aim* to determine whether we are altogether me. $, (yam, and indead of putting the country to 4. , a 'of fecurity, whether we have not espofed ii to, dangers—finally, whetbse we bad sat better to an armed peafantry to refill an many, t every moment, is acquiring additional. pms Ilrength ? I repeat, I 0 as' N o not pro ugnagte kuowledge •of an Officer , but I tica not think • i is that anyftery in .the military Gawks which 141 not be learned by men, determined to biolkoilt ed and improved tinder the difcipline • c.f.., Officers, with the affinancs of being iufpeaetado brigaded. What has already been - .* "*. ' • any power in any Officer to bring I the fi eld to be brigaded at ant with what readinefs they have c there was nothing in the formai , entitled any one to call out a fir his maim on his (boulder, gap what reafon is there to fappofe flew the fame alacrity they - feel that it would be for their to add, that if Governesteg that (mall bodies of men, cers at the public expence, _ fyßem lay not be improved, ther we are to retard our Reps, have done, make a new fyftem . T q parage the efforts of our Volunteers by of fuch language in Parliament as has b M p night ;7" Mr. Pier explained. He (aid ha sever Pang infer that Field Officers were not to be airemmt without the intervention of Comehmesi, Mr. Couaranmy declared that. be never .Sach an extravagant fpeech from the light Hon. ittla. man (Mr. Windham,) even whys he was a Wainer, as he had delivered this evening ; men &Mona im proved in extravagance after they had been deprived of power ; but Tech teemed to be the cafe with tlie Right Honourable Gentleman however, with re. (pea to the Right Hon. Geollenum's fingimenls upon the (übjea of the Volunteers, it appeared tbax after a great variety of dillinaions and foper.dißint tions,iiis objea was to depreciate that force, of %Rich two of the molt &ilful and gallant officers in the Beii• tint fervice, had fpoken in the highell terms of Arai& ; the one, Lord 1 - brchinfon. Rating his opinion, dim they would overwhelm a French army, if direa‘d to a vigoroos and prompt astack. Smilax to that which the Tuddenly :aired lexies of the Snits made *spa dp Sra detachment of the French troops ; this Na Lord Laid, that if iavaded, the conteß with the varier mull be glom and he would Rake his life spas the iffue of Inch an *fault ; the oblervation of Loci Moira to the Scotch Volunteers, was well Indeed, the opinions of the& t ao celebrated Amu were thole of all experience i men in the country bad any opportunity of judging. The Right on. Gentleman Rood alone; his kuumerst was a fingular. He decided, however, f ro m theory bad be ken the men who attnnbled in Hysla ?ark, he Mae lA6vachanpi Imo opisain.• I* ft.* it . a s 1 c e t I e e I e t y been done I Was tare bring the Volut!tamitato 3111 Yet, we fparo lave come forsatrd• r main. ,of tbe„Corps t a Ongle Volunteer. widt mein his opa,Clegsx. oofe that tbity not 4 bate done. lithe, &algid it advantage ? DAT; Indy give proper direetois who Iwo no raid. PE- I tee Wo real." why *b. d. Thp Tuft •is •4 1 4- Reps. repent of witat, wt Rein of defence rad stiii I IF