Star. — London, England, 1831-08-24 00:00:00

I li 4 I !' • i ! i Il i '' li .I . lk. t 1' : 1 • : ' 1 j li .11 i i fi $ i I • I I , / ' S'I , 1 , •1 ; . 1 ' 1 1 ; i t . 4‘ ; 4 i ii i~ ~~ • - 16 [‘i I II i . if - i , . '.l , 'l 4 1. t n ~. ••~ P.!PER?AI, PAR LIAM ENT. HOUSE OF LORDS. Aus. 29. The Blyal Assent w.as given by Commission to the 13s c'vever Bills Bill, the Lords Lieutenants' Bill, and thirty. tr, n Priv oe Bills. The Commissioners were—the Areh. ii. l 4ro nt CANTFRIIVItY, the Loan Cuatnettaon, and the t! vqui% of laot*Dow,:t. Interplesdrr Bill, and the Arbitration Bill, were read the third Ow. and sassed. Lord WHARNC I.IFFE presented is petition from the eciteri-sploners r.f ILditax, against the hours of labour re quired by masters in factories. On the motion of Viscount MELBOURNE, the sub !cuing Act Amendment Bill was read a second titlie. Lord KENYON i7.l!ed the attention of the Howie to the trori,itin I , f a hill for the better care and custody of luna i t•g- and niov; that it be recrred to a Committee of the &bole house. _ _ The house hecord:r.gly went into committee on the bid, *Lel oww:ral &metal:ems proposed by the noble lord were added. The LORD LIIANCELLOR spece in commendation t•C the attention pa:d by the noble lord (Kenyon) ands select cvnanittte to d.is L4l. It had one great improvement, Lamely, it provided ti,ut a constant and systematic comm. Mention should be 14,1 it up between tht Great Seal and the Commissiontr. antler the Act. Aftet a fcw weak front the Duke of CUMBERLAND, the bill paced tluough the committee, and wu ordered to b. reported. t.LuouaEau' DILL' Lord KEN YO tnovcd that the Agricultural La. honrers' Empinymtnt Bill be referred to a Select Com i tze on Monday se'nnight. The noble lord observed that l.e should restive explanation upon any objectionable }aims of the bill until the third treading. The object of ti.e bill was to provide beneficial employ for the agricultural I..bouter. The Duke of RICHMOND did not oppose the bill going to a Select Committee, but he could nut avoid saying tome of the provisions were objectionable. lord onFo It I) was opposed to the bill, on the ground tlia► it would interfere with tithes. The motion was then agreed to, and the bill refened to the tontmittet. _ ....... Lord WYNFORD'S bill to make lanJ hired for the employment of the poor tithe tree, went through a Com- Lord TEVN H All moved the scrond reading of :he poor laws amendment bill. The noble lord, in drawing the at• sention tg the house to the subject, said, it must be obvious to all that great changes might be made with advantage in the poor laws. The bill he:ore the house would limit the p. war of overs-ers. One clause to which he called the at. tendon of a noble Doke (Richmond) compelled the over. setts to keep regular accounts of the paupers relieved. His hope was, that thoirlordships would allow the bill to be read a second time. and rererred to a committee above stairs. The Puke of RICHMOND objected to the bill. The dittoes were defective. One clause provided that parish- dicers should relieve paupers with money, and not prowls shim Now, it was well known, that if a man came to de. mind relief, and the over , eer gave hint money, he might go to a public-house and spend it, but if they gave hint bread, it might be applied to the wants of his family. Another clause was, that persons possessed of one hundred pounds property should he relieved as paupers. The noble duke t' tilt' never admit that such per.ott were to claim parochial telief. If that was the law, half the population would be i supers. The noble duke recommended the noble lord to withdraw his hill Mt the present, and introduce it In a less oh;ectionahle form next Session of Parliament. I.o:d lET N 11.-1 51 wild, lie had done his duty in laying Isefote the !muse what he considered valuable information; hit If the bill really was defective, he should not per tinaciously rew it.—The noble lord finally consented to withdraw the bill. The Vail or BELHAVEN gave notice of a motion on the sithint of voting at the election of repe t tientatiee peen, FILAUDULINT DLITORs t DILL• Lord WY N FOlti) mimed the third reading of the frau dulent debtors' hill, and observed that his intention was to a.id the clauses he mentioned on a former occasion. The Earl of SIIA FTESLIURY said the noble and learned 1 rd weld not add clauses in that stage of the bill. Lord PLUNK Err then rose and moved as an amend nt. that the bill be read a third time this day sir months. Lord WY NFORD said this was an adjourned debate on tb , r bill, and a clause had been Introduced at the suggestion to, his noble and learned friend. _ . _ Lord PLUNKETT &seised that the bill bad been regu• lady bruugh• before the house. He could not admit that a clause had been innoduced according to his desire. His noble and kilned friend had persevered in pressing his bill, pm. ✓uining on the weakness of his (Lord Plunkett's) opposition. The arguments against the bill which he had submitted to the house had not bc•-n answered. Lord WYNFORD said his noble friend had stated as his reason fur throwing the bill out, that no answer had bees given to his arguments the last time the bill was before the house, but his noble ffiend did not recollect that on a former occasion the Lord Chief Justice undertook to examine the bill, and as that noble and learned lord did not come forward to oppose it. their lordships might consider it a salutary mm. *are. He did know that his noble friend had objected to the extension of the nankrupt laws, but the bill did not enact as general extensiou of those laws. The question was whether their lordships would not extend the bankrupt laws to fraudulent debtor., as tut only means of obtaining judg ment after a verdict. Property in all tither countries was amenable to the law t but iii England it was impossible as cite iaw stood, td touch it in particular cases. He had done his duty in bringing torward this bill. It was useless to say Causes were well tried if they could not have judgment and execution. The application of tile bankrupt las • was only to &shorn st l:rt.ons, who went abroad fur the purioae of de lta:Wing their creditors. The question and amendment haying been put, The LORD C ANCELLOR decided that the third trailing of the bill was lost. Lord U . Nfr'OßD ti.en divided the house, and strangers were elClutled. ui:deis ood, however, that Lord 11'yt.ford withdrew rt.. trill, etZil diviaion took place. '-' . i ~ )., , . . ~ , , , ) t* ItANICRUPTCY •ILL. The LOIN) CHANCELLOR rose to put off the die. cohsion on the llsokruptcy Bill shich stood for recommit on Fr:e!ay next. The Noble and Learned Lord oh tbs. he sheuld be engaged in the Court Chancery this week fib he had been the whole of the last, and there. t! re he should request permission to postpone the cumittlera i:on of tie Bankruptcy question. He had to arologlse to their Lordships f,•r nut having been able to attend in his puce snit r da)a. It was inconsequence of the duty in the Court of Chancery ; but he should soon be able to attend to It's duty, +tea sit in that House from tine to time until the t hole of the 'finals were finished. In the course of a !..ttoright all the appeals would be disposed of, and their Lordship* would then hare no appeals before them. At the erase or the present Z.4ession, if it ever ends, said the Noble aid Learned Lord, there will be no arrear of causes. _ _ The Earl RLI.ION said, the noble and learned lord could not have his duty in that Mouse without consent ob. tinned from tick lordeltipe. A standing order Made it the duty of the Lord Chancellor to be present when the Lords were s'.ttin4. He wished the bankruptcy question to be postponed until after the period of adjournment ptopmedfix the coronet .on. The LORI) CHANCELLOR said, the term of ad. jturnment for the coronation gas not generally under stood. It WAS to be an adjoultitueat over the IlleTC day a coronation. With respect to what his noLic friend hot , said about his duty, ,he knew that his attendance in that House was paramount, and his object had been to obtain r crnassion to dispense with the standing older. The noble mod learned lord then postponed the re.commithil of the Chaactry . Bill to that day three weeks. Mr. Brown, Warden Gf the Fleet Prison ' presented at the HAr a Return of the number of prisoners for debt In that pt hien. similar returns were made from Whitecross-street and the King's 'tench prisons. • The house then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. c.. 1 EVANS gave notice that on the sth of Sept. be should mine for copies of papers relative to any negectation entered iota by this country with Russia, France, or other Powers, on the subject of the war now carrying on between Rimini& and Poland. Mr. Aid. TH iiMPSON presented a petition from the ship owners of Leaden, praying to be released from the par 11.C.1( of a fee of Si. Ide. 64. now charged on each vessel peered under quarantine. Mr. Alderman COPEILL ND supported the prayer of the petition. Mr. HUMS said he had'pressated three petitions against this oppressive nor. The lion. Gentleman read a letter who Dundee eating flat a vessel had arrived there arum v Hamburgh, the gross freigi.t of the cargo of which amount ed to but 161. and the fee of SI. 14s. 6d. was charged as well as if her freight had amounted to 10001. He bad presented three memorials on the subject to the Treason, and had spokes to all the beads of departments, and could find no disposition to do justice to the shipowners. It was useless to present petitions when none of his Majesty's Ministers were present. Mr. Alderman THOMPSON said he had made carts to present the petition when Ministers were present. He moved for an account in which the fee was apiropriated.-- Agreed to. - Mr. Alderman THO M PSON gave notice that on Thurs day he would move a resolution that it is inexpedient to charge any fee on vessels under quarantine. Mr. Alderman THOMPSON presented a petition from Mr. John Williams, stationer, of Cornbill. praying for a correction of abuses in supplying Government with stationery. Mr. HUME said nothing could be more satisfactory than the manner in which the present Government was to receive its supply of stationery, by which the yublie would save 20,t001. per annum. Mr. WISE presented three petitions from the Catholics of parishes in Ireland, for the extension of education to all classes of the people of Ireland. Mr. O'CONNELL presented a petition from Notting /ism, praying the house to address his Majesty to release the! Rev. IL Taylor from prison, and to peas a law to prevent prosecutions for religious opinions. The House was summoned to the House of Peers to hear the Royal Assent given to several bills. The SPEAKER on his return, informed the House that the Royal Assent had been given to several bills, which he enumerated,—(See House of Lords.] Mr. O'CONNELL presented a petition from the Go.! vernons of thirty Catholic Orphan Asylums, praying for cssistance ; anti a petition from the four Catholic Archbishops and twenty Bishops, against granting money for Catholic education to the Kildare-street Society, and that the Govern ment grant fur education of the people of Ireland be rendered equally available to persons of all persuasions: and two, , petitions from parishes in Dublin, for the repeal of the union : and gave notice, that In going into committee on the Irish reform bill, he would move for a call of the house. Lord KILLEEN asked 'lsm the Irish estimates would be brought on. Mr. S. RICE said, on Friday he should move the charia table estimates for Ireland. Mr. K. DOUGLAS presented a petition from Birkeud bright, praying to be removed to the Galloway district of burghs : and gave notice, that when the Scotch reform bill ►hould be brought in he would make a motion to that effect. Mr. CAM PBELL brought In bills to amend the law of inhe►itance, the Liw of dower, the lination of suits relating to real property, and the law of tenant by courtesy. The bills were severally read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on the 90th of August. GMSAT GRIMSBY IIACT-10W. Sir GEORallaillirninedti;ttite town clerk of Great Grimsby be called to the bar. The Town Clerk was called to the Bar, and examined by the SPEA KER. He stated that he received the re. turn of the last election for Grimsby from the Mayor at seven o'clock on Wednesday evening, after the election had closed. From an accumulation of business, and a domestic afflic tion, he forgot to transmit the return till Sunday, when he gave the directions to his Clerk to procure a proper person to take it to the Under Sheriff, by whom he sent it on Monday morning. He was very sorry for the delay that had taken place, which he assured the house was not wilful. In reply to a question from Sir Grows Cs.tait, he stated that he had not had any conversation with any person respecting the transmission of the mum. The Town Clerk having been ordered to withdraw, Sir G. OLERK moved that Itir. Acton, Solicitor, be called In. He was accordingly called in. and stated, that ;fter the election of Grimsby, he had a conversation with the Town Clerk, to whom he said, "of course the return will be sent off to-morrow merning " to which the Town Clerk replied, " certainly." The witness having been ordered to withdraw, Sir 0. CLERK said there appeared to be some negligence on the pan of the Town Clerk, but he was not responsible to the House, the returning officer being elect responsible. He hoped the nonce taken of it would be sufficient to prevent my recurrence of neglect. (Hear.) Lord LOUGHBOROUGH bore testimony to the im partial conduct of the Mayor and Town Clerk during the election. Lord ALTBORP thought it would be unnecessary to visit the Marx or Town Clerk with the displeasure of the House. (Hear, heat.) Sir G. CLERK moved that the Blayor and Town Clerk of Gtiassby be discharged.—Agreed to. Mr. ROBINSON postponed Ms notice of motion respect ing Newfoundland, to the 13th of September. DUBLIN CLICTIOX. Mr. GORDON having bees called on pursuant to the notice of motion be had given respecting the Dublin election, Mr. J. E. DENISON hoped the honourable gentleman would not occupy the attention of the house, now that there was such important measures before it, with the subject of the Dublin election, which would only delay the reform bill. Mr. R. GORDON said, he had been taught to believe, that there wit no subject of more importance than the due return of the people's representatives to that house. (Hear. He thought he had delayed the subject too long, and now bring it under the consideration of the house. (Hear.) The report of the committee on the Dublin election contained two charges--one bribery, the other undue influence. There were two committee rooms in Dublin. In one, Counsellor Hudson - was the principal giver of the bribes, assisted by Mr. Hitchcock and Mr. Jones. There were also two other distinguished agents Mr. fil‘Cattaland and Mr. Rent. land, he hoped the last that would figure in the history of election bribery. There were two classes of voters, freeman and freeholders ; but they appeared equal In the history of the election. Two active members were employed to iniu. ence the members of the Guilds. One of them having first voted, received 201. for himself, and was employed to pay the men of his guild, to whom he paid 41. or 51. each.— Some refused voting for 41. or 51. and to some of them 71. was paid. There was a Mr. Robinson, a coachmaker, who being a staunch Protestant, refused to vote for the Lord Mayor and Mr. Perrin for 1. but a Mr. W. Murphy had such a winning way with him that he brought Jack Robinson to accept the money—his public virtue vanished, and he be came a Reformer. He should not bestow more time on the freemen, but would come to the freeholders. The hon. gentleman stated the cviderce of some who polled as free. holders who said that they had never seen their freehold, and did not know where it was, but knew they had a free hold, because they received the rent at the election from one of the agents of the Lord Mayor and Mr. Perrin.— The committee reported that the Lotd Mayor of Dublin and Mr. Perrin had, by their agents, been guilty of bribery ; but the report did not state that they had themselves been guilty of bribery ; and he should not move any eliminatory resolution on either of them ; but he thought the t tiple of Englaad would laugh them to scorn if, while were spending night after night on the reform bill, they lowed the Dublin election bribery to pass without condemnation. He did hot bting forward the measure to delay the reform bill, but to aid it. (Hear, hear.) There were 180 voters pro duced as freeholders fro m two acres of land. (A laugh.) He should move that it appeared that gross bribery had been practised at the late Dublin electioo, and that it was the duty of the law officers of the crown to prosecute the per sona guilty of such corruption. (Hear, bear.) (The bon. gent. here called on the clerk to read the resolutions come to by the house in the year 1779, against using the influence 'of office In election., and on tits motion that Lord Castle. reagh had attempted to abuse the power of his office to Mau -1 ens the return of • member to that house, on which um sion the house resolved that as the attempt had not been carried into efrict. it was not necessary to come to any cri minatory resolution.] The clerk having read the resolutions, The Hon. Gent. proceeded, and said he did not consider the undue influence at all so criminal as the bribery. A person of the name of Basaaglo, who was the orator of the guild of barbers, wan said to have been dismissed from his office for voting for the anti.reformers. He put the charge out of consideration; but it did appear to the committee that persons holding office did use undue influence. Baron Toy!' and Captain Hart, the former Private Secretary and the latter Comptroller of the Lord Lieutenant's household, were both guilty . of interference. He would not say that they should not interfere ; but they bad done it in a very clumsy manner.—(A laugh.) Mr. Long, a coachnsaker to the Lord Lieutenant, stated that Captain Hart called ott him, sod said he had a request from the Lord Lieu tenant that ho would vote for the Reform candidates; and on Mr. Long saying be could not comply, Captain Hart than said he must be dismissed. A letter was produced written by the Lord Lieutenant to lir John Byng, in which bis Sandbag mowed that the tradesmen of the Cowie would vets for the reform candidates ; and said he =petted that all those who held office would vote for them.— Alderman Tyodal's case appeared posullarly bard; he told Baron Tuyll that he owed his bread to Mr. Shaw, who had procured him his place, and asked to be allowed to remain neuter. This the Baron refused, saying if he did it foe one be should do it for another. Mr. &addax', another public officer, was threatened in the same mance. They both said they did not believe that the Lord Lieutenant would carry the threat into effect, but they could not afford to run the risk, and therefore voted for the Reformers.—(Hear, and a laugh.) The next case he should mention was that et the ml-meters. Their office was abolished, and they were ex ceedingly anxious to have compensation. They had a meet ing, at which Baron Tuyll said, if they did not support the Government, they could not expect that Government would support them. A majority of them voted against the Go vernment, and th e ir warrants were withdrawn from them. He wished to call the attention of the House to the conduct of the House in the case of the Bishop of Worcester, because it was almost the only case in which the House had really acted. The Bishop of Worcester, in the reign of Queen Anne, had been proved to have interfered with his clergy, to influence their votes at an election against Sir John Pattison ; and the House in consequence addressed the Queen to remove him from his office of Almoner, which her' Majesty accordingly did.—The Bishop having been asked what was his objection to Sir John Pattison whose election be opposed, said he was an evil-doer and had written al pamphlet against the translation of Bishops. (A laugh.) He was aware he had made a very dry statement, but he thought something ought to be done to vindicate the reso lutions of the House and the purity of election. He be lieved that if the House had followed any decided course, such things would not have occurred. After the view he had taken of the affair on the whole, he had come to the conclu sion that the allegations had been fairly borne out that Baron Tuyll and others had used undue influence, and whether that influeucc was or was not with the knowledge of the Lord Lieutenant, was immaterial fur his (Captain Gor don's) purpose; but he believed that such influence as had been applied by Baron Tuyll had not been used in his capacity as an individual, but had been applied with all the weight and importance of his influence in his official authority. The hunourable member here pronounced a handsome eulogy on the present Lord Lieutenant of Ire land, and added, that when he blamed the present Irish Go vernment, he did not men to say that other Governments had not done the same things. The right honourable gen. denten (the Secretary der Ireland) had in reply to a question said, that the present Government of Ireland had interfered lea than any previous Government had done; if such was thecae, with these statements before the house, what must have been the interference of other Governments? (Hear.) It was to the imperfection of the system that he was op pated—An act of Parliament had been passed which ren dered Custom-house officers and excise officers incapable of voting, because they were considered to be in situations too dependent to exercise an unbiassed franchise; and Government should meet this law by another that should extend to all public officers of whatsoever description they may be, either as regarded their voting or exercising in fluence. The hon. member hoped that he would not ap peal to the house in vain for their interference ; and con. eluded with moving his three resolutions, the purport of which was, declaring that undue influence had ban exer cised, bribery and perjury committed ; and he would move for leave to bring in a bill to destroy entirely the 40e. freeholds of Dublin. Mr. STANLEY said he could not complain of any part of the hon. gent.** statement, or say that he had acted con trary to parliamentary conduct ; at the same time he could not reply to his whole statement, for as embodied in his reso lutions, it involved two distinct questions, of very opposite tendencies, and if brought to be decided by one vote, would occasion a contrariety in the decision. By the hon. member's first resolution be had called upon that house to denounce certain 40s. freeholders in Dublin, as guilty of perjury, of bribery, and corruption, and he concluded his address with moving for leave to bring in a bill to disfranchise the 40s. freeholders in the city. The Right Hon. secretary was ready to admit that the cabbage beds and the raspberry beds were fictitious votes, but as the resdu.ions were formed he could not enter upon his defence, for one part of the argu ment would go to censure the Irish Government. (Hear, hear, hear.) Without canvassing the question further, he would ask the hon. member if he meant to nay that Dublin was the only plate in which were fictitious freeholds. It would have been much more desirable that the hon. gent. knowing each things did exist had brought forward a mea sure that would apply to England as weilas Ireland. The right hon. Secretary related an anecdote which be had read in a work published by a Frenchman on the English elective system, in which was given the examination of a freeholder, and it ran nearly as fellows :—Q. Who is your landlord ? A. Lord Londadale.—Q. Who is your tenant ! A. Lord Londsdale's ateward._Q. What are you A. Lord Lands dale's livery servant —Q. Did you ever see your freehold ? A. No, never in my life. (A laugh.) This mode of making fictitious votes, it would be seen, was not confined to the 40a. freeholds of Dublin. But he had not risen to reply to the hon. gene's statement. It was for the purpose of separating the distinct considerations which the resolutions involved. Whenever the subject should come before the House in a proper shape, be would be fully prepared to de. fend the conduct of the Irish Government. Mr. GRATTAN said, that his brother`, name having unexpectedly been introduced into the discussion, he felt himself bound to state, that his brother had on one occasion made 250 of these freeholders ; but after they had been made he bad not brought theta forward, but had rather submitted to lose his election. The honourable member complained, that his brother's name should have been used without any notice to put hint in a condition to defend him. He thought It improper that the house should be called upon to pass any such resolutions, without the evidence being entered upon more minutely, and on that account he would oppose the resolutions. Mr. HUNT speed with the right honourable &meaty, that a general measure should by introduced into the house, without stopping to wait the result of the reform bill; and if no one else did, he would himself bring the subject beton the house. Mr. 8. RICE considered that It would be an act of gross injustice for the guilt of Blow-coal-lane to deprive the whole of the 40s. freeholders of Dublin of their franchise, among whom there were many persons as respectable se were to be found in any other town or city in the kingdom. If such were to be the ease, the balance of influence in Dublin would be destroyed , and the power thrown entirely into the hands of the freemen of Dublin, against whom it had been admitted there stood allegations as well as against the free holders. Captain GORDON explained that he meant, after all the resolutions were paced, to make the bringing in of the bill a separate mea4ure. Mr. STANLEY was ready to admit that fictitious votes had beta created in Dublin, but he was of opinion that the Hon. GeutLeman should have restricted his measure to the remedy of that evil, and not to deprive those who were not implicated of their franchise as freeholders. Mr. LEFHOY said, that In every use of a fictitious freehold in Dublin, a double act of perjury must have been committed when the holders voted, and be thought it proper that prosecutions should be instituted against them. Colonel CONNELLY was arxious fur Dublin that the abuses should be removed,. and fur which purpose the house ought to give the matter its moat serious consideration. He thougbt, however, that they ought to proceed against these who had crested the fictitious frteholds, as well as those unfortunate devils who possessed them.—( A lauo.) He hoped that the Innocent would not be deprived of their free holds. He was satisfied that from the Noble Personage at the bead of the Irish Government, the Lord Lieutenant. to every oMcer in the establishment, would individually court the strictest scrutiny of their conduct. Mr. SHIEL could not see the reason why any such mea sure u that proposed by the boo. gentleman should be can. Rued to Dublin, when it was so notorious that bribery and corruption prevailed so generally in other places. He in stanced the evidence that bad been produced on the late Li verpool election. The resolution was then put from the chair, on which the SPEAKER declared that be thought the Ayes had it. Some few dissentient voices were raised, and strangers were adored to withdraw for a division, but the two first resolutions were agreed to without a division. The ATTOR NE Y.GENERA L reprobated the course that had been adopted, by which the name of Mr. Grattan and others had been introduced into the discussion, who had not been alluded to at all in the petition, end had COM be fore the select committee. He would call upon the house not to give any opinion whatever on the rest of the resolu tions, as it would be declaring certain individuals guilty, who might, at a future time, become the objects of judicial proceedings. The hon. and learned gentleman concluded with moving, as an amendment, a reeoletisa that an lawable petition be presented to his Majesty, praying that Instate. dons be given to the law °Seers to inquire into the stmts. stitutionel practice of voting oe fictitious fnebelde. Mr. C. W YNN objected to the erode proposed . by the learned Attomay.Genend, as the horse, in cases Of firivllgio; were accustomed to decide it themselves, and not to apply by petition. Sir C. WETHERELL thought that if a petition so ex. pressed was to be sent up, and inquiry be entrusted to the law dicers of the crown, it would be so act to nullify the re sult of the whole inquiry that bad taken place before their own Select Committee. Mr. CRAMPTON said, that he would move a resolution that the Attorney-General be instructed to proceed against the parties for perjury. He did not consider that corruption was so t in Dublin, there bad trot been so many eases made o ut in nor bad there even been many cons. plaints on that head. As to the corruption that existed in Dublin, compared with what had been proved to mist in Liverpool, it was as a drop Ina bucket. Mr. HUNT said, that there bad certainly been eases of bribery made out, but there had not been the slightest chugs made against Mr. Grattan. Sir JAMBS SCAR LETT would rather that the prose. anion would come from some other source than the house, but the house ought to take some consideration of the mat ter. He bad no objection to apse to the resolution that the law ollicersite directed to proceed against the parties, or that a petition be presented to the Lung to give such dirge. tion. The ATTORNEY•GENERAL then altered bigamist. meet to express, that instead of making inquiry, that the law officers should take immediate steps against the pinks for the unconstitutional practices. &c. STRICKLAND opposed the resolution. It would be unjust to punish in Dublin that which was done with impunity in Liverpool and Westmoreland. The punish. meat was the more uncalled for as a great measure was soon to come into operation. Besides, those who gave the bribe, and were the most guilty, were likely to escape . (No.) If the punishment were confined to those who bribed, • great part of his objection would be removed. Colonel TORRENS could not consent to punish the fic titious freeholders of Dublin, when thousands in the other parts of the kingdom were gu ilty of fraud and bribery with impunity. Dr. LUSHINOTON submitted that the amendment should be made to limit the prosecution to those who had offered bribes. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL, understanding it to be the feeling of the house that the prosecution be confined to those who had given bribes, would alter his amendment thus—that the Law Officers of the Crown in Ireland be directed to take immediate measures to bring to justice such persons as may have been guilty of bribing electors in the last election for Dublin. The amendment having been put, Alderman WA ITHM A N said, he could not congest to punish the inhabitants of Dublin for that which was done in other places with impunity. Mr. WYNN considered the amendment, as it stood pre. dotal,. to be more in harmony with the two preceding resolutions.—(Hear.) Mr. G. HANKES also preferred the amendment In its previous shape. Lord J. RUSSELL preferred the present form, as =tit tles the fictitious freeholds. The creator of a fictitious free hold was not punishable by law, such creation being legally without a precedent ; and thus, while the fictitious free holder would be punished for having voted without being possessed of the requisite property, the more guilty party would tamp,. He considered the present motion unne cessary, as the Reform Bill would come so soon into ope ration. --(Hear, hear.) He supported it only because it appeared to be the prologue to a motion, implicating the Government of Ireland, to be brought forward by the same Honourable Member who was the author of the present tlls cussion. Mr. WYNN said, the reform bill would not disfranchise the existing freeholders. Mr. R. GORDON said, the bribed should be punished as well as the bribers. Many of those who had received bribes had been examined before the select committee, and they ap peared to be shrewd individuals, who understood well the na ture of their offence. He should move, as an amendment, that the law officers of the Crown be directed to take imme diate measures, for the purpose of bringing to justice such persons as may have been concerned in these illegal and un constitutional practices. (Hear.) Sir J. SCAR LETT supported the amendment. Mr. J. WOOD considered it a miserable farce to punish the inhabitants of Dublin, when almost every small town in England was guilty of the same practices, and when he could prove at the bar of the House that many Noblemen, and many of the Commons, who were now about to vote for the resolutions, had received thousands for seats in that House. (Hear.) He deprecated the occurrence of the present motion at a time when much more important matters called for their consideration. (Hear ) After a few words from Mr. Benett, Mr. J. Wood, Lord Stormont, Mr. S. Rice, and Sir R. Inglis, Mr. O'CONNELL said, if the resolution comprised the persons guilty of offering bribes, on the anti-reform as well as on the liberal bide, the law officers would have enough on their hands without touching on the acceptance of the bribes, or on the fic.itious freeholds. Fictitious votes were so rare occurrences in Dublin; on one occasion 4,000 individuals were sworn in as freemen in one day. But be deprecated the present motion, as s paltry Sy-caching reform, which de layed the great measure which was to strike at the vultures, end the great birds of prey. He then alluded to the sneers thrown out against the two reforming candidates, and passed a high culogiuss on the interity and high character of the Lord Mayor of Dublin. Sir R. PEEL objected to the amendment of the Attorney. General, because resolutions having been passed pronoun. deg the system carried as in Dublin to be an infringement of the purity of election and of the laws, both as regarded bribery and fictitious freeholds, it would be odd to select for punishment one particular offence. He objected to the other amendment, because it asked that " immediate measures be taken, Ike." instead of asking simply and directly for pease. cation. The objection that the House should name the in dividuals to be prosecuted did not apply, the house having, after the riots of DNS moved an address, praying foe pro. maiden, without naming those to be prosecuted. He also would prefer the words " those charged of being gutlty,"so the words " those guilty," as they made the House assume a pile which might nut exist. Hs should propose as an amendment, that the law oaken of the crown in Ireland be directed to prosecute such persons as may appear to them to billable to prosecution fur the offences above named. Lord A LTHORP said it was not a necessary consequence , of the preceding resolutions, that the law officers should be directed to prosecute at all ; and as every one was that there was a great difference between the crime Or:: conuptoes and tkeetarrupted, there was no inconsisteray in saying that the worse class of offence should alone be prose cuted. With respect to the fictitious freeholds, the asators of the freeholds were not guilty of any offence against the laws, and those only would be prosecuted who, marshy, wan less guilty, via. the fictitious • voters. He did not essider the words " those guilty" amiss, because the law edam aL ways assumed the gu It of those whom they proemial. Sir R. PEEL—The noble lord rests on the degree of mad guilt. The fictitious freeholders were guilty of petjury; those therefore who consider perjury a greater crime than Whey will not vote for a resolution excluding its punishment. Sir J. NEWPORT was inaudible. Mr. HUNT said, in spite of ilWtiirest that was held oat by his honourable colleague, and the hommeable marnime for Berry, that every one who spoke on this qoestion intended to delay the reform bill—threats which he held in the ut most contempt—Great langlum)—in spite of this threat, he would my a few words to set the house to rights. (A laugh.) He had heard all the evidence given ea as mmemittee, mad was confident no Jury in Ireland wadi leak pealsegellty of perjury. They had been cantina by die emeasse airt to say any thing that could camases dieteselem, but they had all honestly admitted that they had oboe meg fee their votes, and it was evident that they did net be,. chat they bad committed any crime; but after issll having been brought before the house, the peerlwsfHellesul wonK indeed, laugh them to morn it the *knot seated on it. He believed, that after this bill dwell peel thaw would be ten times mote bribery than before. (Kw, bear, from the Opposition.) The House divided— Ayes Noes 147 Idajority for the Attorney-Oeserara Ateladoseat 77 On =slag the gallery we totted Hr. STANLEY sir thesis the lime. Ho said the resoled= now Was the hors% that ladisidasla Weft public teas, is appose. ieg_to do so, hold used mime lissom la the 1= th ee= et uukal. Malady cosines a so ft = is the Seacoast= et Walt (Hem ) Ho sea who* at a less to la= who was htteadal to be charged ? Viol= gestles= who Gads the melee disclaimed soy Waist= eraidialle Leal Amiens; bet swalwa Ida' ihr said he did mesa s• "mos . Ida Mr. Huat.) Wit, how . A Ons Wog wai* Nli amila maw w• tot as imputation ea doe Govessailt d .llstalied k to m e di t ai n a 4rjrz s pi o x ima s ami lset a i l gil j._ clone.—(oh, oh! from the Opposition.)—He maw; and believed, if umury, be could prove it. It wa s l a r d down by the highest authority on election law, that und o interference could not vitiate an election, and that behti. the case, be thought the que s tion sho u ld not be eat s; tamed by the House. The Committee were sworn to it; the merits of the election and return. He did not mean to say that cases might arise in which the Committe e should inquire into undue influence, because it might in. validate particular votes ; but in the present case no vit, deuce of interference bad bees given for that purpob e ._ The first ease wu the evidence of Mr. Long, who stao e 4 that Captain Hart came to him, and requested his vote for the Reform Candidates. It was assumed that Captain Hart held a place in the Lord Lieutenant'. household ; but the fact was, he did not. Mr. Long said Cap tain Hart spewed him a list of tradesmen to whom be was going with a similar message. Any man who knew the state of party feelings in Dublin, must be mad, or worse, who did not know that the government entertained strong wishes on the subject of the election. Sir John Byes heard that it was reported that all tradesmen were threatened with dismissal from the employment of the Lord Lieutenant who mad spinet the Reform candidates. He mentioned it to Lord Anglesey, who felt indignant, and wrote a memorandum expressive of his wishes. Sir J. Byng took the letter, and chewed it to Mr. Long, not for the purpose of convey. ing a threat, but of proving that Mr. Long might vote for which of the candidates he pleased without danger. Mr. Long, with an absence of all good feeling, some days after wrote down the contents of this letter or memorandum, to make use of it in proof that Lord Anglesea had interfered with the votes of his tradesmen; and but for this memcr.n. dum which Lord Anglesea bad written in the openness of his feelings, merely stating his wishes in favour of the Reform candidates, and to contradict the report that he would dis miss his tradesmen for voting against them, there could not be a shadow of imputation against him. Mr. Long, who had a pan of the Lord Lieutenant's business u a coach. maker, admits that he had been an active partisan against his Government. Mr. Kempaton, a grocer, had also been applied to by Captain Hart, but he admitted that after he saw the Lord Lieutenant's momorandum, his mind was re. hewed from all apprehension respecting the vote he should give ; and yet these were the only cues which at all bore on the conduct of the Lord Lieutenant. It was charged that Baron Tuyll had used his influence, but that did not cont. peonthe the Government. He was an elector of Dublin, had resided there for years, had many connections there, and was the personal friend of one of the candidates. It was true be was private secretary to the Lord Lieutenant, but that was n ot to prevent his taking part in the election, and canvassing for whom he pleased; but he did not act as an agent of Govern ment. The only evidence of his interference is given by two persons, Alderman Tyndall and Mr. Studdart ; and though the conversations mentioned by those witnesses had taken place, Baron Tuyll expressed his indignation at the turn which bed been given to them by the witnesses. Alderman Tyndal stated that he said to Baron Tuyll he bad been lately elected a police magistrate by the corporation, and wished Baron Tuyll to request of the Lord Lieutenant to allow him to remain neuter. Baron Tuyll said he could not mention it to the Lord Lieutenant. It was a subject on which his lips were sealed to the Lord Lieutenant— (Hear, hear, hear.) Mr. Studdart was much in the same ' state as Alderman TyndaL He told Baron Tuyll he had been appointed to his office by the corporation. Baron Tuyll, he said, replied. though the corporation appointed you, you should remember the government pays you. (Hear, hear.) Ile denied that could be considered unch.e influence. Mr. Studdart bad two patrons, the Corporation and the OD. worriment; he mentioned one, and Baron Tuyll reminded him of the other, but not with any threat. Mr. Studdart admitted that be did not suppose that he would have been dismissed it he voted against the reform candidates; but be said he was afraid to venture. The fact was, no person had been dismissed-for his vote, and orders had been given to al low all the constabulary who were electors to come to Dublin to vote according to their con.ciences, but they were forbidden to make themselves partisans. The strongest case attempted to be proved against Baron Tuyll was that by Mr. ()Annan, the principal coal.meter, who gave evidence that Baron Tuyll said if the coal-meters supported the Government, the Government might support them; and that after a part of them had voted against the Reform candidates, all their warrants were withdrawn by the Castle. The fact was the very contrary. The Castle had nothing to do with with. drawing their warrants—he knew nothing of it till he heard it in the evidence. They were withdrawn in consequence of the resolution of that house for repealing the coal duty, and it was the act of the Board of Customs in London.— (Hear.) So much foe the coal-meter's case; so much for ( h H eari tar n . g ) evidence Right alsi H n On t oura me b n le b f e ji h erti l eman their wen b roo ks"— to say that the last case on record where the house iota feted in macs of the present kind, was that of the Bishop of Worcester, in 1702. Upon that case, a most indecent re be would ask, was the course the House pursued in the fatness m on o e ied the fro H m ixise his interfer situa l t l i d ol a r: l ch had ief the almo r t h r t t rev b; t relail what, case of the Duke of Chapels.? It was that the report be taken into conidatation that day four months; and that too in a case much mare aggravated than the present against the Lord Lieutenant of 1 (Hear.) He oonterned that the motion of the hon. 'gentleman, founded as it was upon so parte statement, ought to be rejected. (Hear.) He consi dered the whole as a slight and trivial case, and be could never give his consent to the motion ; every government bad a right to expect support from those persons employed by that government. (No, from CoL &Wimp.) If not, what was the alleviative to be adopted by each succeeding government? Why, that the persons so employed Amid be discharged— a system that would be found szoteedingly inconvenient He should meet the proposition of the hen. gentleman openly and manfully, and at once give it his direct negative. —(Chsers.) Mr. HUNT was of *Mom what mime the Howse bed brought the emir under dismess, it would have been deficient in the performance of is duty. Tbs bars dr cutustance d the Lord Lleutement of Ireland tegusetiri his tradespeople to vote for the Hove: mom oullais was of itself milicient to establish • pion of issulbmasa Theo was no doubt but the arum of justice MI boo corrupted by the interferes°. of the Moods of with the Polies Magistracy of Dublin. Wont the the published evideme, a system of ditto Interlineal'''. manifested on the part of the Lewd Lieutenant of Word, and it was probably owing to the open and manly chs• meter of the Marquis of Aror, that it ever came to light, for if be had bees of an u nderhand or 1710 disposition he might have contrived to keep the fair in the dark. Will the people of England, he would . ask, think more of the Reform Bill front theme prosediagi, and from the direct tragedy* the motion had received frost the hon. gent. who yoke last P (Hear.) Mr. STANLEY end Mr. HUNT explained. Lod UXBRIDGE said. If the Marquis of Amy bed mu mod is the manner be did, be might, with Oaths, how bees ossidered as 'mincers to the gemnonow oldie sow try ; be bad letters in his posseselom Old* paws& dot the Marquis ',Anglesey had given lossewilloN Oat OD dad slasald von against his comedown oWlibeiee e tbat the peargbe of Dublin at resist ceerghlend bed talon Gs little& pert in the dodos. Baron C o lmir.reely sod in the 'intim moitimeerferfk khoeh e owl so as the of spot the Marquis ed Anglesey. Mr. RIDLEY COLBORNI dam& that the boo. member who bombe darwasd the imam bad acted very properly 11 04Wwisisil audi somorsuasgasam be cell. craved to Yr eiondsnt peediboeut. He slastil, however, have been nosh more gadded by the Moo Secretary for Ira wed moving the mbar Oslo of the Day, them giving his din. 'spelt** the maim. _ . . Me. I;EFROY sae et giant het if Bens Tsyll, We Smeary to the Lewd Liesowen; bad weds m hamper nee el his Exesilency's war" des sewn night be eeraY adjusted by a criminal Mendsm being laid spinet Hs wended that hie intaftwase cosh be maned into sedan but a direct applicants is the pet of Geverninest. Ind ALT HORP smoldered It gawp and umpedis wasery, that a modes of general censure should be 011811 fa without any individual being sawed; for d Italy did not _wpm whether Baron Tu ll or the Lord lissemost d Rahn sae the pasty &nod at in the yre sent disameiss. Me trusted the Hesse would ape shit his Right Meassrable Friend, and most the notion with a direct Ale. i i i ti ING sappseted the nestles. Lad UXBRIDGE explained. Mr. C. WYNNZ essedved that lateehresee en the psi it the Gnomons had beam pmeved. If such s course were to be Wend b a rehend partisans; the Chancellor of the Butermaer WOW hand wadies Ids chador; ou the deigleld= l l; le IlMosate TOWN sad it sight be tharie ld rs ot H es sw ead im ue ME ingasece Mßßlt bad (ma t e ses taknevn atade ou ) staM•aehmtbili bb Majesty's Gowesenent. Sir G. WARISNDER would Me with the Chancellor