Star. — London, England, 1831-06-25 00:00:00

qr. 1. 1‘1; . I The ebil et was to afford equitable means for obraiiiing the vavinent of tithes. The Earl of M ALM SARUM' said, this was a measure of great importance. It applied. to (measles property, and ,if the Noble Lord intended tams it, in addition to the bill is tredured by the Most Rev. Prelate, he begged to ask whether the Noble Lord meant to press it. through the house o:iting the present Session ? earl G REY said th: question of tithe was of immense iaiportance. It was desirable to establish some satisfactory system with respect to tithes. lie understood the introduced by bis noble frit nd did not interfere with the ,Bill,laid on the table by the most Reverend Prelate, and it ,sertainly was necessary that a remedy should be applied as early as possible. lie considered the measure for commit ration t.f tithes most expedient ; but looking st the difilcul ;ies then in the way of commutation, the Noble Esti •hrught the hest mole of proceeding would be to lose no time,in passing a b;11 like that introduced by the Reverend ~Preloe.to Militate tithe compositions. With respect to the time when these measures were to be carried into a law, he , doubted whether one or the other could be completed in this session. therefore be thought after the second reading of bills, the most convenient mune would be to leave.both r. the table to receive consideration during the interval ipelt would elapse during the present and another Session of Parliament. The other bills introduced by the most re rerrnd prelate were of great importance, and it gave him sincere pleasure to find those pleasures of improvement had ,erienated where they ought originate. ,G ear.,) The noble earl - was quite sure there would be no reason to say there was the least reluctance on the part of the heads of the church to afford reformation. (Hear.) Me gave thanks to the most reverend prelate for the measures introduced, an he should,he happy to give ;very facility to the po posed arrangement. Lord DACRE did not oppose the bill of the most rev. prelate, but wished to take the sense of the house upon his measure. At the same time he was desirous of pressing it pertinaciously through the house. The noble lord's bill was then read the first time, and or dered to be printed. ri SCOTCH DIVORCES. The Earl of ELDON brought in a bill to assimilate the law of England and Scotland on the subject of divorce, a vincula twatriosonii, which was read the first time. TOREIGX HILATIONII. I I !; 1 P The Earl of ABERDEEN rose and said, that he was nnwilllng, on the evening of the day on which the Speech from the Throne was delivered, to protract a long debate by making a few remarks which occurred to him to be ne. cessary respecting certain portions of his Majesty's speech which had reference to the relations of this country with other parts of Europe. Threatened as England was at pre. Win with an extensive change in the constitution of Parlia ment, it became necessary that the policy which ministers meant to pursue with foreign powers, thould be thoroughly understood. With that view be now wished to address the noble Earl (Grey) opposite. It would be observed, that ministers in the speech from the Throne had not expressed themselves in a positive manner on the maintenance of peace with foreign powers. The agreement entered into be tween these Powers, he admitted, was some assurance of a continuance of peace; and he believed it was the intention of ministers to adhere to a system of non-interference, of the principle of which he entirely approved. In alluding to the affairs of Belgium, the noble earl gave it as his opi nion, that France bad prohibited the nomination of Prince Leopold to the sovereignty of that state. Ile could not help baying the most serious apprehensions respecting the result of the conference' in London. It was true that their Lord ships were not in possession of the whole facts ; but still he could not help expressing himself as lie had done respecting our relations with Holland. The King of the Netherlands, it would be recollected, accepted unconditionally the resolu tions of the Great Powers, but Belgium not only refused to adhere to them, but absolutely returned them. He now found that a day had been fixed by the Belgic government to reconedor the question, but the King of Holland had protested agniott any alteration in the protocol. If an il lustrious Prince connected with this cotentev should be placed on the throne of Belgium, he apprehended that our relations with Holland would be much deteriorated, utiles. the Belgians fully agreed to the terms first proposed by the Conferences ; whilst this country acknowledged the rights of the Belgians to choose their own govemn ent,— he considered that the rights of others should, in like manner, be consulted. (Hear, hear.) The people of Holland had sto od forward in supporting their Government with a seal which, in the history of that country was unparalleled. 'lle Noble Earl then briefly adverted to the insults given to British ships in the Tagus by die authorities of Don Miguel, observing in was untrue that the last Ministry was unwilling to pleas for reparation on that subject; some vexatious delays, he admitted, did take place, but the admi. aistration of the Noble Duke was not insensible to the nee cessity of asking and obtaining reparation at the hands of Don Miguel. It was stated in the speech from the throne that it was conciliatory to know that the affairs of Portugal were in a better way of being adjusted now than formerly; be (the Earl of Aberdeen) would really wish to know upon what grounds the Noble Earl at the head of the Government was induced to put forward such a statement. He wished to know distinctly from that Noble Earl if there really was war at present between France and Portugal. Ariraments were fitting out and menaces put forth, which (stilly war. ranted such a question. The Noble Earl well knew that Portugal afforded greater facilities to British subjects than any other Government, and this country was bound by treaty to protect her. France had no treaty whatever with Eng. land; there was no law binding the two countries excepting the common law of nations. The cane was different as n. spected Portugal : she had a right to expect our friendly of fices.—(Heas ) The Noble Earl then glanced at the recent outrages committed in thewestern Islands and particularly the case of the island of St. John, in the Azores, where an ab. solutely piratical war had taken place, and no reparation de manded. Such excesses, he was persuaded, would continue so long as the persons who had committed them in the flit instance were allowed to r.ntsin on the island. Earl GREY, atter apologising for his r.bsence last night, said that he did not End fault with the noble earl for the ob servations he had made, but he thought their lordships would have been better employed on the first night of the Session ii, instead of discussing illuminations and broken windows, and toasts after dinner, and the like, they had been led by the noble earl to the discussion of the foreign policy of the country, with respect to which the noble lord, entertaining toe opinions he now professed, might have been expected to move an amendment to the Address. Ile did not deprecate dlscussion at a proper period of all the foreign transactions is which they were engaged, but he deprecated premature discussion at this period of excitement, when the fate of fo reign governments might depend upon their forbearance. Upon these grounds he claimed the confidence of the House and of an indulgent country, or, if that confidence could not be granted, he called upon the noble earl to move *rector an address to his Majesty to remove his present Ministers from his Councils. Ile deprecated the practice of shoOting snows in the dark by persons who could not be apprised of all the circumstances which had occurred. The Noble Earl said that the present Government was founded upon the principle ostentatiously displayed of preserving peace. The Government was moat anxious to preserve peace; but he was not aware that this desire had been oa tentatlOuely displayed. He had no objection to the compli nicht. paid to the services of the Noble Duke. He admitted the importance of those services. But if the Noble Earl meant to commend the settlement of Europe, in which the Noble Duke and the Noble Earl had a large Share, he would appeal to the present state of Europe as the best commentary on. the merits of that settlement. The Noble Earl gave his aftseat to the principle of non-intervention, but immediately explained it in such a manner as left it in a state of de plorable inefficiency. if the Belgians had established a Republic it would have been right to interfere, according to.the Noble Earl. Toasty interference upon such grounds he could never have agreed. Then the Noble Earl said that in terferecce had taken place with respect to the choice of a Sovereign. The right of the people of Belgium to elect their own Sovereign was indisputable ; but it was subject to this limitation, that it should be so exercised as not to endanger the peace and welfare of neighbouring nations. Upon the whole progress of the negociati'tn with respect to Belgium he should be ready when the particulars could be wade public to vindicate the part taken by his Majesty's Government. He did not mean to advise to the state of the ftegociations respecting the rights et the King of the Netherlands, and the European interests connected with the in. not he might express his confidence that means vouglel.be found to preserve all those important interests uttimikalted. As to the election of an Illustrious Person. age, when be raciolltded the moderation sod wisdom of \at Iliustriess.Perusasp, he thought Wile election should etrtgt, it would conduce to his Oman mid the ad. sausage ut.lais.sollieets. This webs, t‘oultlit take glace, eauld sot b beea brought Ana b British loft - Ve Wooed it .wintlid be seen after his bans ascended the that be w as n e t net. aerie, bet. Weir. y. BOON. UN noble earl here offend an eloquent testimony to the ability with which the whole negociation respectieg Brie= had j been conducted by the noble Secretary of State for the Fo reign Department. .Etten,,swith.sespect toika heavy relating to the affairs - Alf ttestogial. He thessitt Ise= lected dispatches written tby Ike noble sail lalosself, Jn which the insults and "'Curies coornisitted the. Govern ment of that country onalritials subjects nweatairmalliiY-con•I plained of. But, sal& Site noble eat', those Were hot -1: 001 -• mined by the Government of Portugal. By whom, then, were they committed ? The noble earl further said that rasa ration had not been refused. But the King's speecinlidoetas-, sert that reparation had been refused, but that ithad Lien withheld. Then with respect to the re-establishment of the relations with Portugal. They came into office with a recent speech fore the throne before them, in which it was said that his Majesty had net been able to renew his relations with Por tugal. He understood that the question of amnesty was that which caused the delay, and that cause had nut been removed. He believed the noble earl would not sanction the mode in which the Ruler of Portugal had come to the throne. Then, instead u. granting the amnesty which had been promised, he contir.ued to practise excessive NYC/it'll. The state of Lisbon was dreadful, the prlsons were crowded with victims of every description, and there was such a system of police as he believed had never been seen in the world before. Then with respect to the quarrel between France and Portugal— He admitted the existence of treaties with the State of Portu gal, which the cessation of our diplomatic relations with that country had not annulled. But as the noble earl admitted we were not hound to protect Portugal against the effects of her own denial of justice, did the Portuguese Government offer to the French Consul any txplanztion or any palliation ed its conduct ? So-far from this, it refused to communicate with the French Consul. Then what did France do? She proceeded to demand redress jest as we demanded it. Was it then fur us to say. we debar you of the rights which wehave just , exercised ourselves? As to the question of the noble earl, whether Portugal and France were in a state of war' It was a delicate questior. fur him to attempt to answer. Every hostile armament did not necessarily produce war. What they had done in the way of mediation or advice it was not at present consistent with his duty to explain. All he could say was, that his majesty's government had not I been indifferent to the state of affairs between France and Portugal. He believed the only remaining topic to which the noble earl had adverted was that of the conduct of the Terceira government. As to the facts stated by the nubk • earl, the piratical war, the pressing of British vessels, and the massacre, were news to him. He now heard of them for the first time. But since the noble lord alluded to the subject he had sent to the Foreign Office for information, and he found that complaint had been made by the owners of one vessel, that many of the facts were denied by the agents of the regency, and that the whole case was now undergoing an investigation. He believed be had now re plied to the various topics of the noble earl's speech, and it would be unnecessary for hint to trespass further upon the attention of their lordships. The British govern ment was sincerely anxious for the preservation of the peace of Europe, and their efforts In pursuance of this ob. ject were shared with equal zeal and sincerity by the pre sent government of France. The Duke of WELLINGTON said it was not his in. tention to prolong this discussion. The noble earl had done justice to the motives which actuated his noble friend (Lord Aberdeen) upon this °cession. He should not have risen had he not felt it necessary to say a few words in reference to himself. His noble friend cast no imputation whatever en the conferences of the allied powers. He merely did what he was perfectly justified in doing when he expressed his opinion on various points in his Majesty's speech. Ile cri ticised certain parts of it, as it was his duty to do, corn. trenting on the course pursued by Government, and warning them of the difficulties and dangers of the principles they were actir.g upon. The noble earl spoke of the difficulties under which the present Ministers entered upon the govern ment of the country. He was faf from any wish to dimi nish these difficulties, but they were not attributable to him, or to the late servants of the Crown. (Hear, hear.) They grew out of the events of July, August, and Sep. ternber last in Pads, and from subsequent events in Brussels, which no buman foresight could anticipate.— Of the former Government of his Majesty it could not he said that they applauded these events. (Hear, hear.) They early foresaw the mischief that would arise fro m them. They then laid down, and proceeded to net upon, that plan which was since pursued, and hitherto successfully pursued, by the present Ministers. It was impossible to advert to present transactions without considering what had been pre viously the policy of this country. That policy had been to keep Belgium out of the hands of France. This was the principle acted upon for 150 years, and no one advocated it more ittongly than the noble earl (Grey) himself. It was the policy of a noble friend of his (Lord Castlereagh) du ring those negoeiations fora peace which took place in 1814, after one of the most successful wars that Europe bad wit nessed. The separation of Belgium from France, and its application to the security of the North of Europe, was the policy of his noble friend. It was one great object of the treaties then entered into, and the result was that it gave to Europe since 1814 up to the present time, a peace r period of tranquillity titan Europe had enjo yed for a long time. This state of things, which existed for so many years in Europe, was broke up by the events of July in Paris, and by subsequent events in Brus sells. He must express his deep sorrow for them, being convinced that the situation in which the countries of Europe were then placed was the best fur maintaining her general interests. Unfortunately, after the occurrence of these events, this state of things could not be restored, and the Government of this country, In conjunction with the al lies, was called upon to set matters right again as regarded Belgium. An armistice was proposed between Holland and Belgium. That armistice was agreed upon, and thus the affair stood when the late ministers left office. The difficulty to which the present ministry succeeded was this, they found one of the powers of Europe deprived of half its dominions. In the arrangement of this difficulty he entirely approved of all the steps taken hitherto, so far as he understood them, with a view to give to the other powers of Europe that security which they had a right to expect. He gave the noble earl (Grey) full credit for all that was done. He believed the lade owl acted in full accord with the other allies,, and trusted that the principle hitherto pursued would not be departed firom. Let him continue to act in cordial co-operation with France and the other allies, so as to remove existing diffi. cubits and secure the peace of Europe, and be would do himself and his country Immortal honour. Nothing he said was intended to throw any impediment iq the way .of the Noble Earl. It was not his wish to do so. He should before he sat down say a few words with respect to Por tugal, a country with which they had treaties of four hun dred years' standing. It became lids Majesty's Ministers, in the situation in which all Europe was placed at present, to look well to Portugal, and to consider of what gout consequence it was that all questions of disputa NNW reignty should be put an end to without loss of time, es cially that which respected Don Miguel. It was the more Ens. patient now, when differences had arisen between Portugal and Fleece, for if France should invade Portugal, the conse. qoence might be to involve all Europe in a war, and en danger the tranquillity of Spain, which was now in a state of tranquillity, and, as f a r a s h e understood, in a state of prosperity. The Emperor Don Pedro could not assist his daughter to recover Portugal, for be was himself deprived of his power. Under all these circumstances, it was more incumbent on them than ever co endeavour to settle the Por tuguese question, to prevail on the Allies to bring Portugal occe more into the society of nations, and to make bet avail. able for the general purposes of Europe, by recognising Don Miguel. At present he should saynotbing upon other points. If some steps were not taken to put an end to the present state of things in the Western Islands, the AWNS, there could be no security for Europe. Lord Al ELBOUR N E obtained leave to bring -in a Bill fur continuing the Commission of Magistracy in Ireland. Adjourned at a quarter•past Eight. HOUSE OF COMMONS. The Gallery was opened at a very early hour, sod was soon crowded. In the house almost eve r place was taken on both sides, by members having a their names on the backs of the seats, stating that they would be present at prayers. Even in the side galleries, places were thus taken. Several petitions for private bins, and several private bills were presented. The Southampton pier MU was brought in and read a first time. The Birmingham railway bill was brought in, and read a drat time. Mr. Dorman obtained have to bring in • bill for the Edinburgh improvements. The Ashton-under-Line tythes bill war brought in, and reads bat time. Mr. BZOWNLOW broyht in the Belfast Harbour ha provement bilL—Read a rst dme. Lord firaxasw brought in • bill to enable the Blanches rit clad eoespolt their ama i o d establleh a ant a railway at ar Gear, the Hoe Mr. Joiturroira bray* to a Nita the asking of better provision for the writers of the Signet of Scotland.— Read a first time. _ --- 871r.11111111. presented petitions for bills for the Irish gleam Navigation Company and the Dublin Railway Com- Apany.--Referred to a Committee. Mr. BURIER moved for various returns respecting laws passed by the West India Colonies, ft.—Ordered. Mr..O'CONNICLL presented petitions from Ballymass, .and another parish in the county of Cork, in favour of the Reform Bill..—Ordered to be printed. He then presented a.petition from Tralesagainst the Klidare.street Grant. POIOUOU Or Mr. W. BANE .ES a Petition from Marlbo rough, praying that their privilege of returning Mtmbers might be continued. WELLESLEY mired whether it was the Petition intended to be permuted to the last Parlisassat Mr. W. BA NE ES--Precisely 80. 'Mr. WELLESLEY said it was the Corporation -Peti don, and to get it up, the Corporation Fund, or Charitable Fend., in the hands of the Corporation, had been used.— lie understood that it by no means represented the feelinp of the ttnantry of a Noble Lord, who was supposed to influence the Marlborough Election. They were almost all ie. favour of the Reform Bill. Mr. W. BAN ICES said the noble lord exercised no such influence. The story about the Charitable Fund was a calumny. Mr. WELLESLEY replied that a gentleman who had atterded the Meeting which had agreed to this petition offered to prove the fact. If it were calumny, he was not the author of it, and it would be calumny to say that be was. Mr. W. BA NEES knew that the statement had been sent to the hon. member.—Ordered to be printed. OXVORD UNIVERSITY SLECTION. Mr. EASTCOURT presented the petition of the Uni. remit) , of Oxford, against the reform bill. It particularly complained of the extension of the elective franchise, • calculated to ' , remote much confusion, and to endanger the best institutions of the country. This petioion merited the serious aotention of the 'louse, as it came from a body re markable for its learning and historical knowledge. They prayed that the bill might not be allowed to pass without considerable modification. Ordered to be printed. Mr. EVANS brought in a bill to prevent the appropria tion of Corporation Funds to election purposes. Read a second time, and ordered to be read a third time on Monday.. Mr. W YSE presented a petition from Tyrawley (Mayo) respecting emigration. Ordered to be printed. lITORri TITITIONS. SCOTLAND. Mr. HUhIE presented a Petition from the working classes of Aberdeen In favour of the Reform Bill. They bad before petitioned for annual parliaments and universal suffrage; but having seen the Minister's plan, they deemed it calculated to secure private rights and the public in. terests. They prayed that the Bill might not be materially altered. He also presented a similar Petition from the Royal Borough of Nairn. He was instructed to say in re ply to what had been mated at some public meeting in Scotland, that if all Scotland were polled not b in every 100 persons would be found against the Reform Bill. Whether that was the proportion he knew not.—Petition from Aber. deen.--Ordeted to be printed. qry wi that Il Caked vacua, would elKit• Royal dab, CHOLER• MORDUIL Mr. BARING moved for copies of all information re ceived by the Government respecting the existence of any contagious disease in the eastern parts of Earope. It was highly rtquisite to have all possible information for the pub lic on so important a subject. Mr. WARBURTON seconded the motto.. It was highly important to know whether the College of Physi cians had ever seen the disease in India or elsewhere. Mr. P.THOMPSON had no objection to the production of the Informations it would tend greatly to allay alarm. but pe►baps extracts would answer the hen. member's object. Mr. HUME said it was important to learn who gave opinions to the Government on this matter. There wens ; 40 or 611 medical gentlemen in this country who had wit. ' , named the disease in India, while it was doubtful whether any of the College of Physicians had practical experience on the subject. Mr. ROBINSON trusted that the government would not relax in their salutary exertions--Papets ordeted. After a few words in explanation from Mr. BARING. the motion was put and carried,—having brat been altered to limit the documents to " Extracts," where that might he deemed very amply suilleissit to answer the purposes sought. SUPPLY. On the motion of LordlaliOßP, the House resolved Into a Committee of Supply, pro forma. Mr. BERNAL took the Chair, amidst considerable cheering. The Besolu. lion, " That a Supply be granted." was adopted. Report to-morrow. THE REVORM BILL. On the motion of Lord Jonw RUBULL, the following passage from his Majesty's speech was read by the clerk : "My Lords and Gentlemen,—l have availed myself of the earliest opportunity of resorting to your advice and as sistance after the dissolution of the late Parliament, having had recourse to that measure for the purpose of ascertaining the sense of my people on the expediency of a reform in the representation. I have now to recommend that important question to your earliest and most attentive consideration, confident that in any measure you may prepare for its ad juiernent, you will carefully adhere to the acknowledged principles of the constitution, by which the prerogatives of the Crown, the authority of both houses of Parliament, and the rights and liberties of the people, are equally secured." Lad JOHN RUSSELL said that he now rose for the purpose of proposing, in the name of the government, a mea. sure of reform whit lr, in their opinion, was calculated to maintain unimpair ed the prerogatives of the crown, the authority of both houses of parliament, and the rights and liberties of the people. In rising to make this motion, be could not but uk—recollecting what took place in the late parliament, that he might have the benefit of a patient attn. don, while he attempted to explain the principles of that measure which the ministers had thought it expedient to propose. (Hear, hear.) He trusted that honourable gen tlemen would favour him so far as not to repeat those gestures and those convulsions, and that demeanour from which it would seem that they thought the measure was not to be seriously ascertained fa a moment, but that it was to be scouted out of the house at ace by jeers, and taunts, and ridicule. Whatever might be the reception of the measure, those bon. gentlemen might be assured that the Government would not yield, as those gentlemen must strongly feel the Government had not yielded nor abated, one iota in consequence of the opposition that bad been raised against them. Neither the taunts nor the jeers which talked the first reception of the measure nor the 1 misrepresentations and the libels by which it had been sought I to disfigure it, nor the fair, and able, and manly opposi tion which men of talent and honour had thought it theft duty to give to it, nor those more dangerous weapons, those unwarrantable and slanderous imputations, that the Sovereign had an opinion upon it different from that of his constitutional and responsible advisers,—none of these obstacles bad prevented the Sovereign, the Ministers, or the people, from steadUy puma fug an object which they considered ought to be dear at once to all those who loved the ancient ways of the constitution, and to all those who wete sincerely attached to the rights and liberties of the people.—(Cheers.) Of the Sovereign and of the Ministers it did not become him, in that place, to speak ; but he could not proceed further in the discharge of that duty which at present devolved upon him, without saying bow much he admired the conduct of the people,—how worthy of all praise and glory the conduct of the people of England had been (loud cheering); and be said this without any reference to the merits of the mea sure,—which measure, however, it was quite certain had then sealed with the approbation of tbi nation. But, he repeated, he said this without reference to the merits of the measure ; for, let that measure be as bad even as the most bitter enemy of it had represented it to be, 'Mite must say. that the sacrifices which had been made, and the devoted mess which had been manifested, even by the humblest classes of the people, in pursuance of what they believed to be their duty to their country these were facts of which England would have reason to be proud to the. West generation. (Cheers.) It had been said that the late elections bad been governed, not by reason, bat by passion, (cries of " Hear , bear," from the appositio n, were loudly reechoed from the ministerial benches). That the electors had beedmoved by passion. be would not deny ( 0 Hear, hear," from the appal tioo) ; for love to one's country was a and by that love the el e cto r b a d ' been raweeL MgCheers.) That love , that passion, had . in awn th at and noble degree d'entheSsens whise mode own forget own petty interest% and Dahl's hiS each •ii puska could have lodised men who woad mg by thole Industry' w but a few shillings a week s to refuse the bribes that were withhatheir retch, to wtilailield•the temptations that were thrown to the eseffito give up the prospect of them selves and. their tes , coBtdit ing to enjoy a valuable pri vilege. (Cheers). Atelifter whetted men done this ? Why, for the sake of a mere which was not for their own per sonal benefit and advainage, bat which they believed would be for the future benefit and advantage of the millions of these kingdoms. ftlear, hear.) This, surely, ought to be • tenon to those gentlenien who seemed disposed never to speak of the multitude, except in terms of disparage eat and contempt. (Hear, hear.) It might be a lesson to them -now ; and he was surprised that similar lessons— for there had been such—had not operated upon them be fore,—it might, he said, be a lesson to them not to ima. gine that they displayed loyalty and good sense in speak ing of any class of his Majesty's subjects in terms at which he was tare the hurt of his Majesty would recoil. (Hear, - hear.) For whatever a man's station in society might be , if, in the pursuit of an industrious occupation, he acted in dependently and conscientiously, he (Lord John Russell) (lid not know why that man was not u much worthy of respect as the proudest, the highest, the richest subject I. the land. (Cheers.) With this preface he came now to the measure, which he had to propose to-the house in his owls and in the name of his colleagues. With regard to the general restates and detail& of the measure, he did not think k necessary to eater particularly into them that day, because those features and those details were the same as the fea tures and the details of the bill which bad been before the late parliament (much cheering.)—and as the slight improve ments which had been made were improvements which were solely intended to carry into effect the principles of the former bill, he thought it would; be quite suffi cient if be left the consideration of the details of the measure until -the house should have sanctioned the first and second reading, and the bill came into committee.— (Cheers.) But although be did not feel it necessary at that time to eater into an explanation of the particulars of the bill, yet the house having been called together foe the pur. pose of considering this great question,—a question which affected deeply and entirely the construction of the house, — he did think It respectful to the house to endeavour to I lay before it the principles of the ancient representation, what that reprtaent.tion was under the present laws, and what it would be under the measure of reform which it was now to introduce. If they wert back into the origin erg the constitution, they would find,witbout eateries into the circumstances that caused the change, that it commenced st a time when the towns and cities of Europe had grown into importance. In France and In Spain representative assemblies were Introduced; and in Germany, many towns erected independent constitu tions of their own. In our own country, there was for s long period of time no regular, known, and defined repre sentation by cenalt cities and boroughs. The sheriffs of counties were directed to return two citizens from every city, and two burgesses for every borough ; and the sheriffs interpreted this direction as meaning that they were to re turn members for such places in their county as they found capable of bearing the expences of their representatives, and of contributing towards the revenue. He held in his hand a return made by the sheriff of the county of York, in the reign of Henry V I.—a return for Scarborough ; and in which it was said that there was no other town in the county from which the Shesiff could return members to serve in parliament. The words of the return were these : " And there are not any cities or city, or more boroughs in the county of York, from whence I can make any citizens or more burgesses at present, o conic to the aforesaid par. liament." In the same reign, it appeared that Bodmin, Two, and Lostwithiel, Launceston, Liskeard, and Hel— met, were the only places in the county of Cornwall that returned members to pas Haman, and the shetiff, in his re turn, paid, that there were no other towns in his bailiwick from which be could send representatives. But the greatest peculiarity attached to the county of Lancaster. It appeared by the returns of sheriffs in the same reign, and in the reigns of the Edwards, that Lancaster and Preston were the only two towns in Lancashire which were found capable of re turning representatives to parliament. (Here the nobis lord reterred to some return of a sheriff In the reign of Ed ward 111. which was to the effect, that on account of the po verty and inability of the towns in his county—proptereorum debilitatem seu paupertatcm—he could return no members. In this manner it was, the. that house had been constituted for a period of two hundred and fifty years, during which time the return of members for partkular places was enforced or dispensed with according to circumstances; and during that period nothing could be more irregular or uncertain, or less settled, than the right of sending members to Parliament. The second in the history of our representation com menced witrt i r i e reign of Henry VI. and ended with the race of the Tudors. During that period the authority of the Crown was paramount, but new boroughs were crested and old ones were restored. Looking over the lust of these it was a striking fact, that a large proportion of them were not places which had increased and become large in the course of time • but that, on the contrary, the boroughs of , Cornwall, and ;mall boroughs in other parts of the kingdom, were the places upon which the tight of returning members to Parliament was conferred in the reigns of the Tudors. It appeared, that of the 55 boroughs in schedule A, which it was proposed to disfranchise, 45 were boroughs which had been created in those reigns. He did not mean to argue that this was a reason for the disfranchisement of those boroughs, or that boroughs which were not the most ancient were those which ought to be disfranchised. No • he stated this fact fur the purpose of showing that the No; princes were ec mated rather by a desire of conferring the elective franchise upon dependents of the Crown than by any view of improv ing the state of the representation. During the whole of this period, the right of the King to create boroughs, and to call new places into the representation, was undisputed.— Thus, when the borough of Ease Loo first sent members to Parliament, it would be seen, by an entry on their journals, that it was held that the charter of East Loo could not be questioned in that house, but that it was enough to show that the borough had a c harter, and that it had returned the two members who appeared as its representatives. And so then it eppeared, that, from the reign of Henry VI. to the end of the Tudor race, the representation was irregular sad unsettled, and that the power of conferring the elec tive franchise was vested indisputably in the Crown. Now he stated these facts in order to demonstrate that the eon. stitution of that house. instead of being that perpetual, settled, invariable, and certain constitution, which they had been told it was,—which they bad been told had not been subject to variation or alteration,—and which it was said that they (the ministers)were now about to violate with unhallowed and desecrating hands for the first time, —be had stated these facts, he said, and be should state othr facts, with the view of demonstrating that the constitution of that house, instead' of answering to this description of the gentlemen opposite, had been a:constitution which had not existed for any fifty years without such alterations %,1 the times required, and as circumstances as they arose rendered, or were thought to ten. ' der, necessary. Well, then, as the representation was not settled during the reign of the Tudor princes, It would hardly, he thought, be contended that during the long civil wars which prevailed under the Stuarts, and which embraced a period which had been described, not unhappily, by a foreign writer as " a revolution of 50years,"—it would hardly be contended, he thought, that during that period the tepee aentatioo of the people-41x constitution of that house—was any thing like settled. But during that period it was, that those precedasts bed occurred which some of the gentlemen opposite regarded with so much horror, and particularly the change in the rdprosentation which had been effected by Cromwell. Although sane gentlemen in our own times had spoken of that change by Cromwell with horror, yet Loki Clarendon,who was as much attached as any man could be to the ancient institutions of the country , and who certainly had as disrespect for monarchy or an hereditary peerage, had spoken of that change as one which was " fit to be made by a meta warrantable authority, and in better times" (hear, hear), and was far from contemplating it with any thing like honor. la proposing now a ce in the representation, he should n ot. perhaps, be inc.lined utterly to condemn and disregard the authority of Cromwell; but he would much rather take what would be considered the lees objectionable testimony of Lord Clarendon, and having now a more warrantable authority and a better time, they had all that Lord Cla rendon thought necessary to justify a change in the tepee. gestation, which theald make the representation more con. Skint with the store and condition of the people. (Cheers.) Daring the reign of Charles 11. whatever Might have been the Male the repesesstedoe, he thought that be was jos. tiled in @eying, diet it was not whit it now was. Per, en a unamemile inestion v —die mission violent dilthrenee arose between tbe two homes. The Commons pawed the enelaels• bilk sad the menthols of that House were generally la latest of It; but the Bill was rejected la the Henn of Lords by a @nisei as large, he believed, .se two to one. The Mmj immsdiately bad recourse to hie prerogative of dissolution, and, upon the assembling of a sew parliament, one of the Melt Ministers, a Secre tary or &ate. bowleg proposed eniendment tw the et -4 MN, which bid- bets apda brought termed, be aot dad a single Member in the Hesse who wail uthe sec ni o eH nd eau th psep e eano ain f mbuotitwasiuiteeavititduetnedt that it atthweays nonect:odt:ns was not con ment . This single fact was a p ro i s tin . at present. They had the same names, the same f orms, the longer bad the same popular control. lie now came to that glorious period of our history the period of the Rev' itt. tion- from which period, he knew, many persisted in dating the existence of our constitution ; and denied that political memory should extend beyond the year 1688. One of the first declarations Which Was made by the first Parlia ment of William 111. was a declaration that elections ought to be free : and the very first act which was passed in the second session of King William's first Parliament was, an act which declared that the Lords of the Cinque Ports had no right to nominate members of Parliament, as they had here. totore unjustly and unlawfully assumed that they bad a right to do. During the period immediately succeeding the revolts. tion there never 64 been any number of years its the course of w hich the Home of Commons had not, by act of Parlia. went or by declarations, declared or enacted that elections ought to be free, and by the people unrestrained, uninterfered with, and uncontrolled. He would read to the house the preamble of an act which hid been passed in the reign of George 11. and which recited an act of Edward I. Hy the way, it had been thought great pedantry in him on a former *evasion, to quote a law of Edward I. but the legislators of the time of George 11. had not considered it the part of pedant. to recite an act of that prince in one of their own measures. (Hear, hear.) The preamble to which he alluded ran as follows :—" Whereas, by the ancient common law of this land, all elections ought to be free : and whereas by au act passed in the reign of 'King Edward I. of famous me mory. it is commanded, upon great forfeiture that no man, by force of arms, nor by malice , or menacing, shall disturb any to make tree election ; mid forasmuch es the freedom of election of members to serve in Parliament is of the utmost consequence to the preservation of the rights and liberties of this kingdom," dec. Now.when this and so many other acts and declarations of that house had laid it clown as a principle that elections ought to be free, could it have been intended to say, that if a gentleman's gardener nomi nated at his pleasure two persons to represent a particular place, such an election was a free election ? (Hear, hear.) Ito; this was not, could not have been, the meaning of the persons who passed these acts, and made these declarations. And yet they bad been told in these our own days—and they had been told it by a very great authority—nay, even a peti. don had been presented to the last Parliament upon this very ground—that a certain number of the members of that house ought to be sent there, not by the free election of the ptople, but by the nomination of individuals; and that a certain other number of the members ought to sit there by virtue of the 1,0001. or 1,2001. which they paid to particu lar gentlemen who sent them there. (Hear, hear.) Now a learned friend of his, the Judge Advocate, had argued, with great force and ability, that this constitution, of which the component parts were nomination and money, be it ever so excellent, was not such a constitution as it was possi. ble for any eloquence, or any reasoning, to persuade the people to think excellent, or even decent ; for that the plain common sense of the people could not be blinded to the fact that such a constitution was in direct de. fiance of all the laws and regulations, and statutes, and declarations, of the house itself. (Hear, hear.)-. Ile must be allowed to say that, in his opinion, it was Impossible to controvert this argument. If they meant to say_that it was right that some members should be sent to that house by nomination, and some by money, for what purpose was it that they bad enacted which de. clued that elections ought to be free , _ and in the people ; for what purpose was it that they had so repeatedly de. dared that they would pursue to the uttermost, and puoish with rigid severity, all bribery and corruption ? It would be difficult to answer these questions ; and gentlemen find. ing it to be so, turned round and said that the people were not enlightened enough to enders and the beauty of the system, and that, instead of attempting to reform the system, they ought to employ themselves in teaching the people to respect and love the deformities of it. Allow him, however, to say that this was as imprac. ticable as the maintenance of the system. It was impos sible that they could successfully persevere in their endea. your to maititain these laws and this practice, which wets directly at variance with each other. The language which they held to the people was in effect this—" We will change neither the law, which is one way, nor the practice, which is another way; we will retain both ; the greater the vice knee which is dose to your understanding, the more ere duious you ought to be ; and the darker and the deeper the mystery may be, the more worthy It is of your wee ship.' (Cheers, and a slight cry of Hear, hear, from Seat hen. member of the opposition.) The boo. members for Ox ford might think this was quite right ; but seeing neither*. tics nor good sense in it, they (the ministers) would never attempt to govern by such means ; and while they scorned m appeal to passion or to prejudice, they never would embark in the hopeless work of practising a delusion upon the corne mon sense of the nation. During that period, however, when, as be had already said, there was a very rigid main teatime of all those laws and decisions which provided for the free election of members to that house, that took place which was likely to take place in every constitution framed by human hands, namely, the introduction of abuses which I lloterfered with that freedom of election for which the laws and statutes, and the resolutions of the Commons I House of Parliament had provided. If he understood say thing of the history of this country since the revolution, he took it to be a fact that about a century ago, when the abuses to which be alluded first crept into the constitution. a number of the members of the bone, were elected by a small number, and that, generally speaking, a small number of individuals did, in many of the towns and boo roughs from which members were sent, represent fairly enough the feelings and opinions of the burgesses there. He did not mean to deny that such bad been the fact ; bat as it was discovered in the course of our constitution that the influence in the return of members to parliament was a very valuable species of property, men who wished to obtain that influence at this time by means of the great properties width they possessed, so perverted and altered the spirit of this institution, that the selections made by a few peruses, belle corporate freeholders or freemen in those different be. roughs, became, in fact and effect, not elections made hi* by those electors themselves, but elections made soder the control and the direction of the individuals who bad obtained an _influence in the way he had ma dotted in those several boroughs.—(Cries of " Hots hear.) He bad looked into a very excellent work which had been published by Mr. Browne Willis on this subject, for some instances to show how these abuses had crept into ow constitution; and the instance which he bad selected for quotation be did not sup pos e would be considered an unfair one, for it was that of the borough of Tavistock. Acconl• lag to Mr, Willis, in the year 1716 thus were 110 electors polled at the election for Tavistock. Now, looking at the return of that borough then, and the amount of its popu lation, it would certainly appear to have been fairly repre sented. Of the members whom the electors then returned to represent that borough, one he believed was me. trident of the town, and the other member was, as was generally the case, one of the gentry of the county in which that borough was situated. At More period, /however —he could not tell exactly when,—the Duke of Bedfo;d, having a great property in the neigh bourhood, brought up the freeholders, and in themes, of time the constituency in the borough of Tavistock bourne so diminished, that, according to a return which had been made to Parliament this year, the number of electors there amounted la 1827 to from 87 to 55. And although these persons were not directly dependent upon the Duke of Bed. ford, still it would be seen that so small a number of dea -1 tors was much more within the power and Influence of the great proprietor, than the 110 electors would be, to which amount the constituency of Tavistock extended, as he al ready said, about a century ago. The next instance which be would select on the other side was the borough of Cam. bridge. The number of electors in that borough in 1716 were about 800 ; that would seem to be a pretty fair consti tuency for that town at that time, and it would appear that they exercised their privilege of elsctiag members freely and to the best of their Ndgment ; for in looking at the return of members which they made on that occasion, it would be seen, taking the names as our g --and the names of Cotton and Bacon were well known ia bridgeshire, that they selected two gen t le men rid who were both connected with the county of Cam . With the name of air Jam Hyde Cotton, cue of the mem bers 0(11min:holm, everyone who was familiar with the history of our country was acquainted. He did not know whether the boo. members for the Vol versky of Cambridge, in their speculations about reform. attended to Whit bad taken place in the borough of Cam bridge, which was so dose at band to them. Went it would be mange if the thongs which had taken pis there bad escaped the observation of those bra gee d& ma. Ho believed the fact to be, that a banker M the tows .41 Cambridge, possessed of eassiderabis inibeems with Ms fellow-townemen, gave the whole power of the awparatirra to the Duke of lindand, roceivWg whet be, no doubt. am - Attend a satisfactory resnkal for doing 5t5.74. 9 dir i 911 cosisidenbie "entity governosest patronage. DI"