Star. — London, England, 1823-06-24 00:00:00

therefore well entitled to the regard of this-House.l He shoulel regret,xfiksee such persons driven to such an asylum in large Towns, and it was remarkable that the process of stamping the linen had never been complained of till within these two years. The Earl of ROSSLYN took the objection of the! Noble Duke to be, if he did not misunderstind him, to the stamping clause being now omitted, and to: little else. Linen stamps, however, had been practi- I cally cut off during the last fourteen years beim c the exportation of the manufactured goods, and the trade itself had increased more in proportion, than during the space of fifty years before. The Noble Doke s doctrine, if it amounted to anything, assumed that all Scotchmen %xi:re greater rogues than Englishmen; but he really was ashamed to 'detain their Lordships in refuting such an argument. The Duke of ATIIOL explained. The fair] of LAUDERDALE was surprised at the Noble Dtilc , 's warm solicitude for those operative measures .1' the smalls kind; since, as it appeared to him (Lot d Lauderdale), there were no such persons as li•tle manufacturers in existence. With regard to teat capitalists, from whom the-Noble Duke appre i endt-.1 so much mischief, it was fortunate for Scot- land that she pos.essed such characters, for every body of common expo fence knew perfectly well that even the existence of trade depended on capital. With respect to regulation of stamping, he consi dered it as the most injurious of all; it took tive-and twenty per cent. out of the pocket of th: manufac turer, and wits, in every puint of view, the most op rr:s ire regalation that could affect the linen trade. The present 1;iil relieved the manufacturer ft ont use less and abAird reitrants on trade; and he must de eare, that the Noble Lords opposite, who had brought the Bill furs arid, and sup ! orted it throoßh ent, had renaere,l a great service to trade. The clauses wet: then agreed to, and the Bill was reported, without any amendmeats, to the House.— Adjourned till to-morrow. _ HOUSE OF COMMONS. Lerd LOWTHER presented a Petition from certain Inhabi tints of Cumberiand, praying for the abolition of slavery in the West Indies.—Ordercd to be printed. On the motion of Mr. KENNEDY, the House went into a Committee on the Scotch Juries Bill. The Report was received, and ordered to be taken into Consideration on Wednesday next. Mr. GOOCII presented a Petition from the Town of Bun gay, praying for the altolition of the Duty,on Coals.—Ordered to lie on the table. The Barilla Duties Bill was read a third time and passed. '1 he Prize-money Distribution Bill was read a third time and p assed. The Report of the Pass:Te of Vesse!, Regulation Bill was re eels.:.l, akdi the Bill ordered to be read a third time on Friday next. The E:tate 11.11 was read a third time and passed. The Repoli of the Southwark Court of Requests lid! was re ceived, :lad ot acted to be taken into further consideration. The Report of the East India Postage Bill was brought up. Nr. I lUME wished to know why threepence should be charged on letter to soldiers and sailors in the East Indies, and only one penny in all other parts of the world? He moved that threepence should he left out and one penny inserted. Mr. lIEIiILIES suggested the postponement of the amend ment until sack time as the House should have an opportunity of seeing the other regulations in connection with this; it would then appear, that, taken together, they were for the benefit of the service. The gallery was cleare..! for a division, but none took place. Further - consideration of the Ifi l postponed to Thursday next. On the motion of Mr. ELLICE there was ordered to be laid before the House Copies of all Correspondence between the Go wrnment and the South Sea Company, respecting the Com pany's affairs. Lord MILTON presented a Petition from certain Clothiers, praying that no alteration might take place in the Duty on Fo reign Wool.—Ordered to be printed. The East India Mutiny and the East India Trade Bills were postponed to Friday next. The Occasional Voters' BEI was postponed tillto-morrow. Dr. LUSHIN GTON presented a Petition from Charles Trust, now a prisoner in Newgate, praying for inquiry into his case.—Ordered to lie on the table. Sir JOHN NEWPORT asked whether the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Peel) would communicate to the House any official information respecting the riots that had recently taken place at Maghera? Ile did not wish tel prejudge the question, or to offer an opinion on it at present. Mr. Secretary PEEL said, that as the subject was to be in vestigated by the Magistrates, It would be better for the present tp abstain from any statement of circumstances. From the most autbentk accounts Ahich reached him, it appeared that there had been fpur killed, three badly wounded, so that amputation became necessary, and several others more slightly wounded. • Mr. A BERCROMBY said, that he was desirous some day should be fixed for the discussion of the Illegal Oaths Bill, as he would then take an opportunity of offering some observations which had been suggested •by circumstances that had occurred since the measure was introduced. Mr. Secretary PEEL said, his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Gout burn) would have no obj , !ction to afford the Hon. and Learned Gentleman the opportunity he desired. . RECIPIIOCITY OF DUTIES BILL. Mr. HUSUSSON moved the Order o& .the Day for the second re tding of the Reciprocity of Duties Bill. The parties most interested in the measure wished that an opportunity might be afforded them of stating their objections. He was desirous that they should Lace the opportunity they desired. object now was, to accelerate the Bill one stage. Ile would move the third reading on Monday, to which time he hoped the lion. I•e-n'.er (Mr. Robertson) would post pone hi; oirservatiot,.. Mr. ROBFACISON said a few teems respecting the inconveniences that would arise if the other Powers did not act on a principle of reciprocity. Mr. II U wished to know whether the heavy duties now charged in the ports of Prussia, amount ing to six guilders pr last, were to be taken cif if this: Bill should pass? It was understood, on the first introduction of the meastite, that the oilier Por.vers were reparef to act on a pricipl6 of reciprocity. Mr. 1 I USKISSON said, that the Prussian Minister in had fAitted the readiness of the Court of Berlin to adopt the principle, it it were mace reci procal. lle further stated, that it the principle of reciprocity were not adopted by this country, the ex clusive duties of Prussia would he carried much fur ther.—The Bill was read a second time, and com mitted for to-morrow. COM BARON O'GRADY. 'Nit. RICE moved the Order of the Day, that the I touhe should resolve itself into a Committee upon the . conduct of the Chief Baron of the Exchequer (Ireland). Mr. C. H. HUTCHINSON was astonished at the conduct of: his Honourable Friend, in pressing for wat d that question in the then state of the House, and in the absence of sever al Honourable and Learned Members, who had given notice of their opposition to the motion. He (Mr. HutchinSon) would oppose' the Speaker's leaving the Chair. Mr. S. RICE begged pardon for interrupting his Ilonourabe Friend. He was by no means anxious to take ad vAntage of the absence of any Honourable Member, or to press the question forward ; but :saving been charged repeatedly with delay, it was quite evident that ifhe did not seize that opportunity, when there was nothing else before the House, he should . lay himself open to a similar char^e then. However,. if any HonOurable Gentleman objected to his pro ceeding. with thehnsiness, he would give way. Sir .1. NEWPORT defended the conduct of his Honourable Friend (Mr. Rice), and said, that at that late period of the Sescinn great inconvenience and hard,Lip occurred to I lonourable Members who did ante J to their Parliamentary duty, in consequence •of the non-attendance Of other Honourable Mem bers, to accommodate whom the public busine s s was obliged to be postponed. • After a few words from Mr. C. 11. IluTcniNsoN, Mr. Rice withdrew his motion. The Labour of Convicts Bill, the Larcenies .(Beiefit of Clergy) Bill, the Capital Punishments Repeal Bill, the Felo nies (Benefit of Clergy) Bill, the Sentence of Death Bill, and the Felo de Se Bill, were severally forwarded through their re spective stages, and ordered to be read a third time on Wed nesday next. BEER RETAIL BILL. Mr. BROUGHAM moved the second reading of the Beer Retail Bill. The C El ANC ELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would not oppose the - Bill. but he could not assent to it. Alderman WOOD hoped his Honourable and Learned Friend would not press this Bill, which would only ruin a large class of respectable persons, who had sunk their property in leases of public houses. He hoped the Chancellor of the Exchequer would repeal the duty on beer. Mr. BROUGHAM had no objection to take the debate on going into the Committee on the Bill. He declared that he was serious in bringing this forward, though he was not so interested in it as the brewers and publicans. He had already pot it off to suit the convenience of the Hon. Alderman himself. 'Mr. H. G. BENNET considered this a question of I great importance to the vested interests of the publi-1 cans; fur it was a Bill to enable any person to sell beer the same as bread, and butter, and cheese. A house with a license had a sort of adventitious value attached to it; for instance, there were many houses which would not sell for more than 000, without a license, that with one would bring £1,200. He was quite sure that the Public required some relief on the score of the licensing system. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER took nearly the same view of the Bill, though lie did not object to the principle of it. The reason why he in• troduced a less extended measure was, that he might not disturb a great deal of property vested in public houses and breweries. Mr. BROUGHAM said, it was never his intention to give the great brewers a monopoly, but they re ceived it incidentally and accidentally. The Bill would not interfere with the sale of beer to be drank upon the premises of the vender. The Bill was then read a second time; and ordered to be committed on Friday. SUPPLY. Lord A. HAMILTON wished to know from the Right Honourable Gentleman if it was his intention to give up the duty on coals carried coastwise? The CHANCELLOR cf the EXCHEQUER said, the duty upon stone would be repealed, but he had never expressed his intention to propose the repeal of the duty upon coals: however, in the Committee upon thc Customs Duty (Scotland) Bill, it would be seen what modifications of that sort were called for, and might be conceded. The following items of the rem a ining Irish Esti mates were then voted : £15,000 for the works at Donagbadee Harbour. ' £29,254. 9s. 2d. for defraying the expense of the London and Ilolyhead Roads. £45,000 for the works at the Royal Harbour, called King George the Fourth's Harbour, at Kingstown, formerly Dunleary. - Mi. HUME asked, was that sum to be the last for those works ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER feared not. The works were on a very large scale, and con ducted by Commissioners, and therefore not under the immediate controul of the Treasury. He had written to the Commissioners to ascertain, in direct terms, the objects they had in view, the original inten tion having been (as was not unu.ual in such cases), considerably extended. He had also directed en gineers to proceed from this country, to ascertain if it was necessary to go on with the works to the ex tent contemplated by the Commissioners. The ob ject of the works was of considerable importance. Mr. VESEY FITZGERALD supported the vote, and defended the conduct of the Commissioners.— The expenditure upon the portion of the works that had been completed was nearly one-third less than the original. estimated expense.—After a few words from Mr. Hums, the vote was agreed to. £20,870 for completing the works at Holyhead Harbour. Mr. H. G. BENNET complained of the great ex pense of a harbour, merely for the use of packet-boats. The CHANCELLOR cf the EXCHEQUER said, so far from the harbour being now confined to the use of packet-boats, that in every gale that occurred the harbour b ecame so crowded with West Indiamen and other merchant vessels, that the packet-boats were frequently unable to enter it.—Vote agreed to. £2,300 for printing the Journals s of the House of Commons. Mr. HUME said, that in the last Session a Com mittee hid sat to consider the manner in which the expenses of the Stationary Office were incurred; but he was sorry to say, that the object of that Commit tee had nut been allowed. The Hon. Member pro ceeded to co:nplain generally of the abuses in the Stationary Office, and complained that no alteration had been made in consequence of the recommenda tion of the Committee. He thought that the expense of printing the Journals was much greater than was necessary. The lion. Member then descarved at great length on the character and conduct of a Mr. Jen i.ings, who had given evidence before the Commit. tee, whom he described to be a most honourable man, altlptigh he had been ill used by the Treasury and vilified by the public prints. Lord PALMERSTON defended the conduct of the Committee against the charges of die Hon.Mem ;)er. The lion. Member had had the direction of the Committee. He and Mr. Jennings had conducted the inquiry altogether. With regard to Mr. Jennings's character, lie (Lord Palmerston) would say, that his opinion of that Gentleman was completely the re verse of that of the Hon. Member's. Mr. RICARDO felt it necessary to state that the conduct of Mr. Jennings had been so eccentric, that it had been quite as much as the Committee could do to keep that individual in order. • Mr. BANK ES vindicated the intention of the incti vidnals comprising the Committee. He felt astopished that the lion. Niemlltit for At..eideen should have praised Mr. Jennings; after all which that Member had witnessed in the Committee. His conduct had been so extravagant and improper, that he bad put the Committee to a trial which und...r nh other cir cumstances they would have borne. • The man ap peared to have an excuse for his eccentricity, for he would call his conduct by no stronger name. Mr. T. COURTENAY said, that when the lion. Member'had said that Mr. 3:.nnings had brought for \vard nothing but that which he could prove, be had made a , statement more incautious than any of the statements in which even • that Hon. Member in dulged. Mr. Jennings had accused him (Mr.'Cour tenay) of a le *al as well as moral offence, and the He pourable Member now sought to exculpate his film! Mr. Jennings, by sa) jet; that he bad heard it in some alehouse or other, and therefore no blame coulJ attach to him for britiag it forward. £7652 for making good the deficiency of the grant of last Ses sion for printing the Acts.—Agreed to. Lord PA LMEUSTOIs: moved that there be granted the sum of Xi 89,483 for the disembodied Militia of Great Britain from December, 1822, to December, 1823. A sum not exceeding 1 - 99,248 for the disembodied Militia of Ireland was then proposed, and after a few words from Mr. Haste it was agreed to. A sum of £5850 for the Society for Propagating Christianity Abroad was then proposed. Mr. HUME thought that some case ought to be made out to justify this new grant. Mr. WILMOT-HORTON.—The reason of the in creased grant was the entire failure of the funds of the Society to support the Missionaries and School masters who are now in North America. As the co lonies improved in their circumqanees there was no doubt that this grant would be diminished. Colonel DAVIES thoVit it would be expedient to give to the House some lot Cher information upon this subject before they acceded to this vote. It would be right, he thought, that some information should be laid upon the table, and that in the meantime the vote should be postponed. Mr. HUME said, if the colonies required religious instruction they ought to pay for it. Mr. WILMOT-II owroN said, thatif the manage ment of the Society was exceetiimable, those who thought so had, no doubt, a right to oppose the grant; but the Hon. Members who had hitherto sanctioned this Society by former votes were, in hTs opinion, clearly bound to vote a supply for the present defi ciency. It by no means followed that the vote would again be renewed. Sir J. MACKINTOSH, with respect to the addi tion, observed, that if the increase rested upon the King's Government he should vote for this increase; but he thought inquiry was necessary, and that a strong case should be made out before he could be satisfied that the Colonies were not capable of main taining their own religious establishments. Sir ISAAC COFFIN thought, that the sum ex pended in distant Colonies for education could be much more advantageously employed at home. Mr. HUM E again observed, that there was no case made out for this additional grant. After a few words from Mr. WI Lmor-Howrox, strangers were ordered to withdraw: the numbers were—For the Vote 49, Against it 21, Majority 23. That £15,000 be granted for facilitating emigration fer the people of the South of Ireland to the Canada. and the Cape of Good Hope. Mr. AI3ERCHOMBY feared this measure would afford no redress, because it was not sufficiently ex tensive. They might as well remove a few rabbits from a warren under the notion of clearing it. If ap plied to proprietary judiciously, he snould not object to it. One of the great evils of Ireland was the cottier system, by which the labouring man received Hale or no wages, but in lieu thereof a cottage and plot of ground. If such persons, not being able to pay their rents, were allowed to emigrate, and those small plots were consolidated, he thought the application of this money might prove useful ; but that only under such conditions as he had mentioned. Sir J. NEWPORT concurred with the views of his Hon. and Learned Friend. He attributed much of the distress prevailing in certain parts of the South of Ireland to the decline of the Newfoundland fishert. Mr. WILMOT-HORTON said, that the views mentioned by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Abercromby) were not lost. sight of by his Majesty's Government, who were quite aware that this sum could give the Irish people no efficient relief. The ob ject of the grant was to shew what Government would do, and enable the Irish people to take advantage of it or not, as they might feel it eligible. The present estimate was'grounded upon a calculation that £95 per head for men, £25 for women, and £l4 for chil dren, would take them out to Upper Canada, and supply them with the means of obtaiaing a moderate independence for after life ; giving them also, in the first instance, a passage, husbandry implements, a cow, and subsistence for a year. He held out no hope, however, that this could be acted on very ex tensively; but as far as it had been tried, it proved particularly successful. He should here add, that four hundred persons were to be sent to the Cape of Good Hope, whose expense was to be defrayed out of this vote. The Ron. Member adverted to the advan tages of such emigration, when the emigrants would be employed, and at a rate of wages higher than many Honourable Gentlemen might believe to be really now paid at the Cape. Mr. AIIEItCROMBY expressed great apprehen sion at the emigration of farmers, who had some means, to the United States. He thought something should bedone to put a stop to such dangerous conduct. Mr. WILMOT-HORTON said, it was publicly known in Ireland that such encouragement would . not be given except in cases when the necessity of giving it was most evident. Mr. S. RICE approved of the proposed vote. Mr..C. HUTCHINSON did not object to the pro- posed grant; buche wished the poor of Ireland to be employed as much as possible in that count: y. The Hon. Member emphatically called upon the Govei li mn to devise some means of employing the poor, and thereby prevent those excesses which uhfortu..- nately dig raced Ireland. Mr. PEEL said; the reason of taking so small a sum was in order-to try 'whether the scheme would be successful or not. The best means of employing the Irish people was rather by removing the restric tions on their trade, than by lending money to any persons. However honest the Government might be in io 'intentions, the application of money collected by trlIatil)11 could never be as useful as' if that money was left in the hands of the industrious, who co o p employit'A M A l l T Mr. J. S H regretted to hear such senti men4 from the Right lion. Gentleman. M. as it Lot p o :. sible to employ the poor of Ireland? Ar.Nitnbo,aad I many other persons acquainted with the stateofthe (Irish people, could tell the Right Horrid fen. tleman how the poor of Ireland could he cored The linen trade could. be encouraged veryA mc b the grant of a sum of money. Mr. D. BROWNE arqued in favour of a grant t o the linen manufacture of Ireland. Mr. RICARDO was favourable to the vote unit" consideration, as an experiment; but he could rota: * sent to ;lily large grants for that purpose hereafter, Sir J. NEWPORT agreed with th e H or i, m ember If7erlain)(drta•allsinngott°sno' that the security o f property great as it ought to be. 11 . 4il et s e office of Sub-S!ier 'was one of traffic as now, t h ew curity of property could not be great. Mr. J. SMITH explained. Unless England:tye,' o-ive Ireland a fair treatment, England would re tva it bitterly. Mr. HUTC I I INSON heat tilt' agreed with thol e% Gentleman who had lat:t stated his opinion—The Resolution was agreed to, a, was a V ote for 1.7700,000 for Schools now sorporteel by Voluntary Subscription, to enable the Lord Lie,,tenant of Ire. land to supply any deficiencies in th, fends there o f. The CHAIRMAN was ordered to report th ew R e . solutions to the House, and the [Lase resumed...4 in repot t was ordered to he received to-morrow, THE LOTTERY. I The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER , h i a Committee of Ways and Means obseevei, tha t h e had already stated early intim Session,ehat it waste his intention to propose, after the present year, 51y wore Lottet y Resolutions. The' Re , olution, h ow . ever, was liable in the present year to no obje ct i on, since the House must see that it was very advisable for a large class of persons dealing, in the article cd tickets, that they should not he taken by surprise this year, by so suddenly being depiived of part of their means of subsistence and occupation. Ile moved that the Commissioners for the Lottery should bets. thorised to contract for one or more Lotteries in wai f to dispose of a quantity of Lottery tickets, not exceed. ing 60,000 in number. Mr. LEYCESTER thought, that as all had agreed the Lottery was a moral pestilence, it was very ill. judged of the Right Hon. Gentleman to propose its contiutiance even for the present year. Mr. RICA RDO said, he did not Ilse to oppose tie Resolution, but merely to ask the Right lion. GeD. tieman in how many Lotteries he intended to dispoa of the tickets proposed now to be contracted for? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCII EQUER said, it was not likely that 60,000 tickets coeld Le sold it one or two Lotteries ; it wa s intended, therefne, to divide these tickets into three Lotteries for this year. The Resolution was then agreed to. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER dm moved a Resolution, that there be panted to his Majesty a vote of supply of .C 11,700,000 of Ex. chequer Bills for the service of the year 1823; which was also agreed to. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQLTER gen notice, that on Wednesday next he would recapito late his financial statement. At the request of Mr. GOULDURN, Sir ft PA,. \Rt.L postponed his Amendment to the second reitri. ing of this Bill till to•tuorrow. LNGLIsIi CATHOLICS. Lord NUGENT moved the Order of the Diy for the Committee on the Test Regulation Bill*. The Noble Lord stated, that he wished to unite the Ruman Catholics with the great body of the people. A meet ing of the 'titian Catholics had approved of the Bill. One object of the Bill was to procure the elective fan chise for the Catholics, and the other, to render rhea eligible to the Magistracy. In the Committee he should propose a new clause, the object of which would be to repeal in part the 7th 'and Bth of King William. His object in this Bill was to put the Ca tholics on the same footing as the Protestant Dis. senters in this country. He had never disguise] from the House that he considered this Bill as a part of the measures for advancing the great principle of reli gious toleration. Mr. PEEL said, the Noble Lord was aware that he .was favourable to the general principle of the Ilill; but be objected to the way in which the Noble Lard proposed to carry that principle into execution. He despaired of amending the Bill in a Committee, and therefore he would oppose it on a third reading alto. gether. On the subject of the elective franchise there vas no difference between the Noble Lord and him ; and he wished that he had brought in a short Bill to give the Catholics that privilege. — With respect to admission to Corporations, the Ca tholics of Ireland were subjected to the oath of Su premacy, which the Noble Lord wished to repeal, and consequently he put the Catholics of England on a better footing than the Catholics of Ireland. He wished the Noble Lord would 'allow the oath of Su premacy to remain, and then the Catholics might be allowed to enter Corporations. The Noble Lord bad not mentioned the case of Scotland, in which Catho lics were excluded from (Zee by name. Lord NUGENT said, he should meet that part 01 the subject by a particular clause. Mr. W. BANK ES should oppose tiro Bill, biorri it was, as the Noble Lord stated it, a direct wp wards full Catholic emancipation. Mr. BROUCHIA NI had hoped that the'ettire might have been made practicable, and amended in the Committee; for it was inconsistent to suppoa! that the Catholics of England should be withootr• vileges, which the people of Ireland, who were Ca. tholics, enjoyed. As it was, however, he wished lot Noble Friend would divide I is Bill, and bring in! Bill to give them the elective franchise. :sir. BA N KES, sen. objected to the principle of the EN. - Mr. CANNING had understood that the Noble Lord 91411 divide his Bill; and he hoped he would confine his meant re• specting the eligibility to Corporation offices to the same cari,l! which the Irish Catholic was admitted to such privileges. • Mr. WET il ER ELL opposed the Bill, al being a sup to bril! about the perfect measure of Cathclic Emancipation. • Lord NUGENT moved that it be an instruction tothe Cam mittee mittee to divide the Bill into two parts.—Agreed to. The House then swat into a ommittee, in which the was divided into two Bills; and, on the suggestien of la Sams, the Bills were ordered to be printed, and theft:lda on the Bill for extending the elective franchise to be takinoit . re-commitment.—The Quitman then reported MO* r asked leave to sit again. - f TNa other Orders were didpesed of, and the Heine laijologi at 11aLr O'CLOEL.