Star. — London, England, 1822-04-30 00:00:00

•~ "7W • to this, in other of the country . When he looked. back toe the viorn ts ce of the principal actors upon these casions, he could not wonder, much less could he condemn the Magistrates for not actin g.-- That the distress was very great in the county of Nor folk, he could not deny, and if that had not been made a handle of, he would say, that perhaps the Magistrates were remiss in not pushing forward this Petition. It was a fact, that the two unfortunate men who had been executed there , confessed that their only object was to compel the farmers to raise their wages ; and there were now in the jails 100 others,. whose crime was, perhaps, the same. But did the House forget how, upon some late occasions, indivi duals had been commended by men of the first rank, whose sole object, he did n ot hesitate to say, was to render more acute the feelings : f the people as tat cause of their distresses? ..He had only to refer them to the late Surrey Meeting, where a Noble Lord (whose name he did not care to conceal), Lord King, made a speech, in which he launched out the most extravagant eulogium upon Mr. Cobbett, and which speech was afterwards published in the shape of a pamphlet, and dispersed through every part of Nor folk. The consequence was, that the county had a greater share of Mr. Cobbetes company than ever it had before, and he (Mr. Wodehouse) believed thati the reason he was so much there was, because, as the distress was greater, so was the field for his exertions enlarged—(Hear). But was it not to be regretted and deplored, that a man of Lord King's rank—a Peer of the Realm—should thus stoop to laud a man, re markable above all for his disregard of every right of property? —.(Hear, hear). He protested against this conduct of the Noble Lord ; and looking at the dan gerous consequences which might follow it, he could not view it in any other light than as unworthy of himself—unkind to the people to whom he ought to be an example, and unwise in the extreme to so ciety—(Hear). It was by such proceedings as these that the Magistrates were justified in withholding their sanction from the Meeting to which this Petition related—(Hear). There only remained one other topic to touch upon, and that was a complaint which he was bound to make against his Hon. Colleague, for having alluded to a conversation which took place between him (Mr. Wodehouse) and a Noble Marquis, in which the Noble Lord was stated to have given an opinion, that he did not think any Petitions respect able which were not signed by men of rant. Surely it could not be necessary to defend the Noble Lott] from this charge; for it was impossible that in a free country like this, any man could say that a Petition was not respectable which was not signed by men of rank. He stated this, not so much from any dinar sition to be the champion of the Noble Lord, as be cause he thought it but due to him to state the matter as it occurred. And of that Noble Lord he would, without hesitation say, that he was not only aware of the extent of distress prevailing in the country, but that there was no man, not excepting his Hon. Col league (Mr. Coke), who was more ready to relieve it, if he could but see his way to do so—(Hear, hear). He had still one word to address to the Hon. Member for Aberdeen (Mr. Hume). It was the practice of that Hon. Member to be constantly taunting him (Mr. Wodehouse) with inconsistencies in his Parliamentary conduct. Now this was unfair, and in the main, un true. It was true, whatever might be the tenour of his observations to-night, that he (Ms. Wodehouse) had voteciagainst the reduction of the army, as well when the 5,000 was proposed as the 10,000. But he did this upon principle; and, in looking back to that vote, he could not accuse himself of having acted against his conscience upon that occasion. He was still of opinion that the army had been reduced too low. He also objected to the injustice done the troops by sending them, after the most arduous services, to sot in the Colonies, and observed th4t a Colonial Mi litia would be preferable. He would have the lion. Member for Aberdeen, and those who acted with him, to look to their own conduct, which was strongly marked by inconsistency. This was perceivable in the late debate upon the state of Ireland, when, as soon as the disordered condition of cliat unfortunate country was mentioned, Gentlemen, on the other side, immediately called out for martial law—(Cries of No, no," from the Opposition). He contended that this was most glaring inconsistency of conduct, for these were the men now calling for an increased mi litary force, who had befui e voted for reducing the army. They were now the first to propose a refer ence to _military rigour. In conclusion, the I lon. Member said, that it was with unwillingness he had entered upon the statement he had just made, but' that it bad been drawn from him by necessity. Mr. DENISON said, that with no disposition to take any part in this discussion, he felt himself called upon to interpose his evidence between Lord King and the gross attack which had been made upon him. Ilaving risen, however, he would take the opportu nity of stating his entire concurrence, as well in the .prayers of the Petition as in the observations of *the Hon. Member who presented it to the House. With _ that Hon. Member he fully agreed that taxation was the cause of the evils under which the country la boured, -and theta diminution of it could alone give substantial relief—(Hear). With regard to the allu sions made to a Noble Lord, he (Mr. Denison) could take it upon himself to give all the facts . harged the flattest contradiction—(Hear, hear). He was near Lord King at the Surrey Meeting, and he knew that the Noble Lord did not 'pass an unqualified panegyric upon Mr. Cobbett. His words were, that "he had now in his eye a public writer, to w hom, whatever Gentlemen might think of his opinion, the country was greatly indebted for the clear manner in which be delivered his sentiments, and that in his opinions he was generally right"—(Hear). And it really was • his (Mr. Denison s) own opinion, thdc whatever might be said of Mr. Cobbett, his predictions in most in stances were verified; for was it not a fact that the • country was now reduced to that state that it was im passible for the Noble Lord over the way to collect the taxes under present circumstances and with the present currency ?—(Hear). Mr. BENNET said he also felt himself called upon to speak in defence of the Noble Lord who had been alluded to. Having been present at the Meeting,he was thus enabled to speak from personal observation • of the part which Lord King took upon that occa sion. It was true, the Noble Lord did eulogize Mr. Cobbett; but, in so doing .he was, in his (Mr. Ben net's) opinion, peifectly righi'; and he (Mr. Bennett) would have done the same under similar circuns- •• • • , - .1 '• dances. Lord Vag spoke of lir. Cobbett as as able 'publiewrite not a r:whemocoustladbdieenany idtlintenwheiginteouldy that he was writer, and that his opinions in the 'main sure correct?-- (Hear, hiar).—Mr. Cobbett was, in truth, a writer much in to whose literary labo urs the cottony *as - debted, for he set things in a proper view ; and, in fact, all that credit which many public men had ,ined by acting upon his su tons, was attri -1 ga butable to him rilone.—(Hear,rar.)—ln speaking, then,-of such a man, why should not Lord King_be F at liberty to say what his opinion of him was?, Was not the opinion of Lord King quite as valuable as that of the Honourable Member (Mr. Wodehouse), l and as likely to be correctly formed ?—(Hecr, hear.) He (Mr. Bennett) . would certainly set at least as much value upon. one as the other. Lord King was in a high degree gifted with an acute intellect, and possessed a philosophical mind, descended to him from the ingenious Mr. Locke, whose descendant he was; and if Noble Lord had a seat in that House there would have been nothing heard of this charge, for the Noble Lord's character was as much above reproach, as his public conduct was free from those contradictions in principle and language for which the Honourable Member opposite (Mr. - Wodehousey was so remarkable:—(Hear,hear).—The course pur sued by the Honourable Member to-night, in relation to the Noble Lord,' was, he rejoiced to say, new to the practice of ParliaMenr. They.had tio: been used to see Gentlemen come 'down to that -House, and, upon the authority of a newspaper report, without knowing anything of the truth of the matter, volun teer a wanton charge against a man *of Lord King's station—(Hear)—and, to theabsence of that noble person, set up his speech as a sample bf the worst trash uttered at public meetings, and from it draw justification of the conduct of the Magistrates upon this occasion —(Hear, hear). —One good, however, he expected from the contradictions of the Honour able Member, aad . that was, that as he ,professed himself a deserter from the camp •of Ministers, he would join the ranks of his (Mr. Bennet s) side of the [louse. The Honourable Member had declared that lie thought the Salt Tax should be repealed; and it was to be expected, therefore, that upon theatext dig-, cussion he would vote for its repeal. Withent, how ever, wishing to proselytize, he (Mr. Bennet) would give the Honourable Member a little advice, which, was, that he would take example from this discussion, and not inconsiderately vilify the character of a . re spectable or deserving Nobleman, or again venture to speak of worthy men in terms which one could not hear without disgust and surprise. Mr. WODEHOUSE, in explanation, observed, that he was still borne out in what he had said of Lord King praising Mr. Cobbett. He had a note of the Noble Lord's words, which were these:—" He is the most able writer of this or any other time)'— (Loud cheers from the Opposition).—He had never said more than that the Noble Lord eulogized Mr. Cobbett. With regard to this individual having been much in the county of Norfolk of late— The SPEAKER here interfered, and observed, that the Petition having been brought up, there was then no question before the House, and to proceed in the debate was irregular. The Right Honourable Gentleman then put the question, " That it do lie upon the table."—Upon which Mr. WODEHOUSE resumed.—He had been stating, that recently Mr. Cobbett was-very much in Norfolk ; and to that he should add, that his efforts there were alt turned to encourage the growth of' discontent and disaffection. Upon more occasions than one he had declared " that the laimers were all brutes !—(A laugh)—that there was nothing shabby which they would not do; and that, in hne, they were starving their labourers, and doing everything disgraceful to human nature." Could any one see such a man held up as an object of admiration by a Peer of the Realm without fear ? The Honourable Member bad attacked him (Mr. Wodeltouse) for at tacking Lord 'King ; but was not his character of the Noble Lord warranted by his speeches in the House of Lorch?—(Crier of Order.) —He could assure Gen- tlemen he had no disposition to pursue the subject ;' and he adverted to it a second time, not with a view to vilify Lord King, but to state that he was not in a humour to retract one word he had said. Mr. M A BERLY observed, that the best reason to suppose that Lord King had formed a right estimate of Mr. Cobbett was, that his sentiments were ap proved of by the Meeting whom he was addressing. It would be well if certain Gentlemen could submit their opinions to such a test as the voice of the people, and come off harmless- 7 (llear, hear, hear). —As to the charge of inconsistency of conduct, he was clearly of opinion that it ought to he laid to the doors of some Gentlemen who first voted the Supplies, and then refused the Ways and Means. There were not wanting Gentlemen to vote for the maintenance of a large Army, and then afterwards vote for the repeal of the Horse Tax. Facts were stubborn things. The Petition was then laid on the table, and or dered to be printed. Mr. COKE presented a similar Petition from the Hundred of Erpingham, in the same county.—Laid upon the table, and ordered to be printed. Mr. SYKES presented a Petition from the district of Holderness, in Yorkshire, complaining of Agri-1 cultural distress. The petitioners prayed the House to reduce the taxes, and exclude foreign corn by the' imposition of high duties.—Laid upon the table, and ordered to be printed. Lord G. CAVENDISH presented a similar Peti tion from the Landholders of the Eastern part of Sussex, which, he said, was respectably signed. He begged of the Noble Marquis opposite to attend to' the prayer of the Petition. He hoped the forthcoming plan would be founded upon a liberal and extended view of the state of affairs, and not a flimsy or un satisfactory suggestion —( Hear, hear).—He disap proved of the relief by loan, as ill-suited to the mag nitude of the evil. It was his firm belief, that with out a repeal of the taxes no effectual relief could he administered—(Hear, hear).—Laid on the table, and ordered to be printed. - Mr. BEAUMONT presented a Petition from the county of Northumberland on the same subject. The petitioners disclaimed the aid which would arise from the imposition of protecting duties.—The Petition waslaid upon the table. Mr. MAXWELL presented a Petition from the Farmers and Landholders of the county of Renfrew, complaining of Agricultural . distress, and praying relic .—Laid on the table, and ordered to be printed. . Komi ailitiernta cArmosisc *mut. Sir J. Ntwnwr bad understood that the Hon. GendoPINNOD blember hit lAver 4l, disposed; lad therefore topposed it might beim to postpone the motion of which he had given notiee for to-nsorrovr, respecting the admission of Catholic Peers into Parliament. He wished to know of it Right Hon. Gentleman oppmfite, if be could inform him, whether his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Canning) had come to such a determination? Mr. HUSKISSON said, it was true that his Right Hon. Friend had been indisposed, but he could as sure the Right Hon. Baronet that it was his firmest intention to bring forward the motion, of. which he had given notice, tomorrow. STATE MI IRELAND. Sir E. O'BRIEN wished to take this opportunity, the Secretary of State being present, of calling the attention of the House to the State of Ireland, and to the situation of the county in which he resided. The SPEAKER, remarked, the Hon. Baronetconld not, consistently with the usages of that House, found a speech like that which he proposed to make on a .question poi by one Hon. Member to another. Mr. PEEL could not pass over the reference which had been made to him, and begged to state that the attention of Government had already been called to the subject cn which the Honourable Baronet had proposed to speak. After a few words from Mr. Hountirsow, Sir E. O'llatau again rose to speak. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY suggested, that the Hon. Baronet had better give notice of a motion, on which he could found the statement which he wished to offer. Sir E. O'BRIEN again rose, and stated the subject on which he desired to address the House to be so important, that he could not lose one moment in bringing it forward. The evil to which he alluded pressed severely on the county with which he was connected, and, in his judgment, it extended to se veral other counties. Ile . was proceeding.to open his statement, when Mr. BANKES submitted to the House, that it was out of order to offer the statement about to be made on a question with which it bad no connection — (Cries y" Go 'ort"—" No, no"). Sir E. O'BRIEN again offered himself to address tbs Chair. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said the state ment would be better deferred till his Right Hon. Friend, the Chief Secretary for Ireland should be in his place. He expected he would be in the House in the course of the evening. The Petition was then read, and ordered to lie on the table. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said he was about to move that the Speaker should leave the Chair, as he thought the discussion on the Agricul tural Report could be more conveniently taken in a Committee. He moved that the order of the day for taking into further consideration the Report of the Agricultural Committee should be read. Sir E. O'BIIIEN then rose, and expressed a wish to be allowed to enter on his statement then. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY thought it would be better it should be postponed till the Chief Secretary for Ireland was in his place. Mr. BROUGHAM was of opinion that whatever course would be most for the convenience of the House ought to be taken. He would submit that bringing the state of Ireland forward in the middle of a debate on another subject, would be more in convenient than entering upon it now, though the absence of the Chief Secretary was no doubt an in convenience of some importance. lle wished it to be considered whetheritwould not more mar the expected debate and the matter itself, supposing it to be ur gent and important, if it were introduced by way of interruption, and would cause more inconvenience than could result from its being offered now ? The I Secretary of State was present • be must necessarily I be in a great measure acquainted with the subject, and the absence of the Chief Secretary was therefore ' of no importance. Mr. Secretary PEEL had no with but that the subject should be brought forward when the fullest explanation could be afforded. The Learned Gen tleman had conceived that in his (Mr. Peel's) de- . partment, much on the subject must be known; but he must be aware that the details came more under the observation of his Right Honourable Friend the Chief Secretary than under his. He knew that he had bad some communication on the subject that very day, and therefore again submitted that the better course would be to wait till the Chief Secre tary was present. Sir E. O'BRIEN said, the case was urgent. In his County many thousands of persons were at present unable to obtain more than one meal a day ; and was not this, he would ask, a sufficient ground for con tending that the subject was one of the first import ance? Many of the inhabitants of his County were obliged to subsist on a small quantity of oatmeal and watencresses throughout the day. Nothing could have induced him to come forward on the present occasion, had not the subject been of so crying a nature that it could not be delayed. In the month of August last, in the western part •of Ireland, an immense quantity of rain fell. The wet weather con tinued for twenty days, and when the inhabitants came to look for that food which should have fur nished them with their ordinary nourishment through the coming year, they found their whole crop had failed, and was rotten in the ground. Considerable distress had prevailed, but it was only very lately that the melancholy situation of a considerable por tion of the population of Ireland had been ascer tained. From what had recently transpired, he had not the smallest doubt that the wants of the people went so far beyond their ordinary resources, and beyond all calculation, that nothing but Parliamentary aid could afford them relief. The Counties of Kerry, Mayo, Roscommon, and others, in short nearly the whole of the Counties in the Provinces of Munster and Connaught suffered under this terrible calamity. He called on the House to consider what would be the effect of such distress in Warwickshite or Lanca shire, or other populous Counties in England ? He put it to them .what must be the result of such dis tress pressing upon a million or a million and a half of sufferers—distress which greatly surpasses that or perienced in 1801, or at any other period within his recollection ? He knew it was a very general feeling, that th e re was plenty of corn, but what was plenty of corn where people had uolioney to purchase it? --He knew &it great . ezertiOril t t been and *Geld be made, by We resident try to Oaten d i e calamity. Ent what could the Gentry of a 'County do for 150,000 people? All the reilbi, 211 that atilt be raised in the County must prove insufficient to re. move the evil. Whatever measure might be adopted, he feared that thousands must perish from famine, Or from the diseases attendant upon a state of famine, before any *lief could be afforded—( Hear, hero), The sufferers did not )come before the Parliament as mendicants, but they 'called for employment, by which they might be enabled to subsist themselves. Let their rates be Mortgaged for two or three years-- l ist additional numbers - be employed on the roads, (. T on the public works ; but he prayed them not to let *house* of men die from want without one effort to save than. He trusted it woad not tie said that it , Aioa out of their power to mitigate the evil. The Ho. !rsostrable Gentleman proceeded in the most earnest manner to impress upon the Hcuse and the 'Govern , ment the necessity of looking into the subject without delay. He felt that if the Country Gentlemen c' England complained of being overstocked with grain relief were afforded to Ireland a mat ket Own be opened for their superabundant produce. Ile went onto draw a most melancholy picture of state of Ireland, which, since he came away, had be come such that not a night passed without some rage being committed, for the poverty was such ti; the sufferers were compelled to seek by robbery fr.r the means of existence. The farmers were runni:l,. away, and the most fearful desolation was witnesse,-. He hoped the case of the sufferers would meet immediate attention, and that those who had bravel ; - ' fought the battles of England in the hour of danger, would not be left to perish from famine. Mr. W. W. BEECHER bore testimony to the great distress which existed in the south of Ireland. Mr. GOULBUItN said, that he had not expects! the • present discussion, or that the Government c - Ireland should be now called upon to explain the mea sures which it intended to adopt for the relief of t 1.2 population of the distressed districts of that country. The Hon. Baronet knew that if he had not don the course of coming to Parliament for a grant for tl.at purpose, it was not for want of disposition to thise with, and to relieve the unfortunate suffe:-2r.r, but because he was • unwilling to bring the -u: , "ct more forward, and to increase its publicity. The (.; vernment were first bound to examine what exzcnt t relief was required before they adopted any den1...2 mode of applying it ; and according to the [low able Baronet's own calculation, the sum of 1.:100, , would be necessary for the county of Clare alo:.e.— He would therefore ask the House, if if did not le hove the . Government to be cautious how they es roiel themselves to similar demands from other district: Ly any precipitate measure which they might adopt ? la the south of Ireland, there was undoubtedly a great deficiency in one of the crops which formed the prin cipal food of the poor, namely, that of potatoes. Brit he had every reason to believe, that in many districts the potato crops had not failed, and that in many more thc corn crops had been abundant. At this ye: y mo ment, when the price of potatoes was so extravagant, that of oatmeal was lower, even in the county of Clare, than it had been for a very considerable period pa:t. The Hon. Baronet had said, why not appoint a COM' mission to inquire into the state of things ; he ot:::•t to have added, that Mr. Warburton, the Gender:. who waited on the Lord Lieutenant to apply for :e -lief for these districts, was desired to return by t: Noble Personage, in order to ascertain more exac:.F the extent of the distress, and the means of the re:- dent Gentrj , to afford relief, in order that the aw::- ance given by the Government should be proportionate to their subscriptions—(Hear).—Hehad heardto,lay, that the Gentleman to whom he had alluded had re turned to the Lord Lieutenant with the required ir.- formation, so that Government would now know how to proceed. He was not aware that the House could reasonably expect any further information from him as to the intentions of the Irish Government. It %v.'s most lamentable, that at the present moment t!.! people of Ireland should be afflicted with these cations, because nothing would operate so much t' effect the continuance and spread of disturbance. Would to GOD that all the evils of the country could be removed ; and he trusted the House would do t`:: Irish Government the justice, to rest satisfied that no exertion would be spared to lessen those dreadtal effects—(Hear). After a brief explanation from Sir E. O'BRIEN, t L e Order of the Day was read, and the House went ir:.> the Committee. AGRICULTURAL REPORT. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY rose, in rr suance of a notice which he had given to the iloa , e• to call its further attention to the Report of the cultural Committee. Before entering into the rat:l -cular measures which he should have the honour to propose as growing immediately out of the Rer:t. he was sure he should very much disappoint C.: wishes of the House, if he did not first apply hinisei; to a consideration of the distress out of which tl:e ai pointment of the Committee had arisen. He should do so for the purpose of giving his own ideas tiro that distress, the purpose of his Majesty's Minister with regard, to . what had already been proFoseJ, and information upon some further measures whist they now intended to propose for its relief. id was now about ten weeks since he addressed tl:e House upon the subject, and he was perfectly free :a say, that if since that period he had met with anytiling i which-led him to suppose that he had taken an meet' rect view of the state of the country upon that ()c:x mon, there was nothing in his composition that wou:J prevent him from acknowledging his error. Bill . 1 ' far as he could collect the ideas which he entertained upon the first entering ihto the question—he did tic mean in detail, but in the general outline —he hod every reason to believe, on reflection and experience, that they were substantially correct. His perstu-ik:a was, that the general state of the country, with I.: ` exception of the Agricultural Interests, might bc l' • garded as prosperous. The manufacturi n g and :l' mercial branches continued to increase in their pit sperity; so far as they possessed the means of judg: lug. The state of the Revenue , as far as tilt) could rely upon that test, proved this to be the ca- , , It would be remembered that upon the last qu.il" there was an excess, compared with the same vile; in the preceding year, of between four and .500, 00( :" He was happy to say, that in the last three we?': since the quarter's accoums were made up, there haJ 1 1 .1 4 r 1 !~ !i ~~ ~~ I ' . 1 , 11t