Star. — London, England, 1821-03-15 00:00:00

. . f ro m the salary of the Governor of the Cape ; he esta- wi s hed the office of Lientedant-Governor (a place of Eget, a-year) ; he aholishcd the great office of Vendu master; whenever sinecure offices became vacant, he r oe s u ffi cient ,salaries for the performance of the a uk s, and transferred the surplus to the revenue of the Colonies. These were not the acts of a man who gras ped at patronage. Since the peace, all the con siderable appointments were given to Officers °obeli- Pa y, , who bad no other means of subsistence. 'But die Hon. Member thought the half-pay Officers had ken used hardly by the Foreign Enlistment Bill, w hi c h prevented them from improving their fortunes in South America. He (51r..Gotalburn) believed those who had gone to South America, had met with none of the anticipated blessings--(//erte).—And there was t a w a resolution of the Government of that country, 'slot to employ any more foreign Officers, because k r b e ir health would not bear the climate, and because 's•thiy were too expensive—(Hear).' •The Hon. Mem beimueleded observing, that the change of mi tory system since 17 ndered more en neces sary the Colonies. In g l i g2, m men might be drafted from. Regiment to Regiment, without being consulted. Now, they enlisted for particular Regiments, and when necessary to send out the Regiments as relief, they must reach the stations before their predecessors could be removed. Mr. J. P. GRANT said, that it was difficult in persons not in official stations, to form a judgment of the requisite numbers of the military forces. He (Mr. Grant) must look to the general state of the country, and thence form his judgment of the ne cessary forces. On a former occasion, the Noble Lord (Palmerston) had stated, that 5,000 men were necessary for a particular service ; and after all had reserved only 1,300 for that service. He was aware that the country had more Colonies than in 1792 ; but in the same Colonies that the Country had in 1Y99, there had been an increase of 21,000 men.- Such an addition was wholly uncalled for by the -state of the country. Nor could he see why the ge neral military totce should be more by a half than Mr. Pitt deemed sufficient for 1792. No case ho i been made out to sanction such an increase, and the House was bound to refuse it. Some Governments might be entitled to some degree of confidence from the House, but the present Government was entitled to none. Though the reduction might he made to the extent of 20,000 men, yet half that number only was demanded. The only way to prepare for war, was by husbanding our resources in time of peace. Sir R. FERGUSON said, that he felt it necessary to make some observations upon what had fallen , from the Honourable 'Under-Secretary for the Colo. ) " nial Department, with regard to what he (Sir Ro nald) had stated respecting Sir James Craig. That statement he would again repeat, namely—that Sir James Craig, being Governor and Commander of the Cape of Good Hope, in the year 1795, and finding that no pension or allowance was made to him by Government, did assign to himself the sum of three thousand pounds a-year, until the pleasure of Go vernment should be known upon the subject—Sir James declaring that he thought that sum amply sufficient. This gallant Officer did not, indeed, ap propriate one shilling more of the public money to his own use. What, then, was to be thought of the enormous salary granted to the present Governor, who, by the bye in addition to that salary, was in possession of a -very large farm, for the use of which he had the gratuitous labour of forty slaves, the ser vice of each of whom might be set down as equiva- lent to seven shillings a-day? The revenue, then, of the present Governor of the Cape, might be fairly otimated at £20,000 a-year. Was it, hf asked, either just or considerate to allow such a salary to this Governor? On the contrary, indeei, in the pre sent situation of the country, when all classes 01 the people were complaining of grievous distress, he could not hesitate to pronounce such-a grant to any Court favourite as most indecent and disgraceful- 1 (Hear, )"hear! front the Opposition Beaches).—What he bad stated with respect to Sir James Craig, he ex- , pressed his readiness to prove at the Bar, by the tes timony of the General's own Secretary—(Hear, hear). The acquisition of the Cape of Good Hope was one I of the causes assigned by the Noble Lord and others for an increase of our military force beyond the esta-i blishment of 1792. But be would contend, and was prepared to shew, that the military force„ as well as the civil expense necessary for the defence of the Cape, might be maintained by the revenues of the Colony itself, especially if the Hottentot corps had not been so imprudently disbanded. This corps was, indeed, as effective, if not more so for local purposes, than any equal portion of our regular army, while it could be maintained at a much cheaper rate. Gentlemen on the other side of the House might smile, but he called upon any of them to justify the contradiction of his statement, or to shew on what ground this very use ful corps was disembodied. A gallant Friend of his under the gallery; had thought proper to express some doubt of the propriety of his recommendation to reduce the Household Troops and the Cavalry.— His gallant Friend had stated no reason that should induce him to renounce his opinion. But having ad verted to the Cavalry, he could not forbear expressing his surprise that the simple manly habit of the old English soldier should &eve been abandoned of late years, by the introduction of whiskers and mustachios! —(Hear, hear)—which was calculated to render Bri tish soldiers the subject of ridicule among their coun bymen, certainly without contributing to render them formidable to any enemy—(Hear, hear, and laughter). -Such fopperies were inconsistent with the plainness of the English character, as well as disagreeable to the feeling s o f the E n gli s h people, and ought there fore to be abandoned—(Near, hear).—He also depre toted the adoption of another foreign fashion, among what v ere called our Lancers and Hussars, namely, ihatof niountiug them upon small horses, which very materially interfered with their effectiveness. Colonel WOOD could not allow the sarcasms Pied on the British Cavalry to remain unnoticed. He begged to recal to the recollection of the House the conduct of the Dragoons at the battle of Water loo. The Scotch Greys, aided by . the Inniskillen bra4oons, plunged into a column of 25,000 French, and in a short time annihilated them; and the 10th Hussars first rode over a Regiment of French Ca aalri, and then attacked the Infantry. The conduct the Scotch Greys, and of two other Regiments. a ttracted the peculiar notice of Bonaparte on that memorable day—(Hear, hear, hear).—lt had been Pro Posed to give up Gibraltar, as it had been said it j !Was kept against the will of Spain. Of -the will of Spain he knew nothing, but he hoped it would always be kept with the will of England—(H ear , he ar ).— The Honourable Member here took notice of the item in the Estimates, granting £2OO a-year to the widow of Colonel Hill, of the 50th Regiment, who met his death in the West Indies, by going into an hospital 'to see bow his men were attended to in the yellow fever, no other soldier being found willing to do so. 'Gentlemen on the other side might smile at this fact, 'but he thought that House must approve of such a meritorious grant, under any circumstances in which the country might be placed. Sir R. FERGUSON observed, that if the Honour able MeMber had perceived any smile on his side of the House upon mentioning the case of Colonel Hill, it must, he was sure, have been a smile of approba tion—(Hear, hear).—But as to the Hon. Member's quotation of the opinion of Bonaparte, it was clear, from the words repeated by the Hon. Gentleman himself, that this distinguished General's first com pliment was to that portion of our Cavalry which he l(Sir Ronald Ferguson) had pronounced most effective, and not to the Lancers or Hussars, with their whis kers and mustachios I—(Hear, hear). Sir R. WILSON began by vindicating the lan guage of his gallant Friend, who had just sat down, with respect to the Hussars; the import of his gal lant Friend's observation being, that these Corps might be rendered more effective under a different system. According to his own opinion, no horses should be sent Out with any of our Light Cavalry, as they might do garrison duty, if necessary, and horses might be provided for them when occasion required.; and thus a saving of expense would take_ place, while our army upon the Continent, in any new war, might be rendered, on the whole, more effective. 1-le fully concurred in what the House had heard from his gallant Friend with respect to the expense 'F the Cape of Good Hope, and especially as to the ex,r.ivagant allowance made to the Governor of that Colony. Nay more, he did not think this country, either for commercial or military purposes, had any necessity at all to keep the Cape, after we had got possession of the Mauritius. Therefore, in his view, the expense of that Colony might be well spared at once by abandouing the Cape. If, upon any new war, it should haepen to fall into the hands of an enemy it would be impossible to hold it against the power of our navy; and upon this point he would appeal to the judgment of the gallant Admi ra l on th e other side . But even if it were deter m i ne d t o k eep the Cape, and to thus encumber this courl7 with ad ditional expense, he agreed with his gallant Friend as to the inexpediency of maintaining so much force in that . Colony, and especially as to the disembodying of the Hottentot (:orps (A smile on Me Ministerial Beaches). Gentlemen might smile at this corps, under the in fluence perhaps of the,sample of the Hottentots which they had seen in this country, in the person of a Hot tentot female! ( Laughter).—But he was enabled to say, that the corps he alluded to were quite as effi cient as his gallant Friend had stated. Then, as to the salary of the Governor of the Cape, it was no less, for several years, than £lB,OOO per annum; Minch being pai,i I:im.in hard money, he gained no less than from 40 to .50 per cent. upon the Exchange —( Hear, hear, on the Opposition benches).—As to the expense of the loniaii Islands, he thought that expense might be spared ; the sort of independence enjoyed by these Islanders serving to excite the jea lousy of the Greeks upon the Continent, as well as that of the 'finks, against this country. He saw no thing that could be gained from the possession of those Islands suflic ent, in any degree, to compensate us for the expense of keeping them, or to guard against : the consequences to which he had ielerred. Now, as to the %Vest Indies, he deprecated the system of keeping our native troops so long in these Colo nies; for the effect of this system was to deprive them of health and morals. Of that effect, indeed, he had heard many melancholy instances, especially in the multiplicity of punishments. The Artillery were known to be superior in discipline and regularity to the generality of the army, and yet, out of only 200 men stationed in Jamaica, there had been, in the years 1812, 1813, and 1814, no less than 293 sen tences, not one of which was remitted—(Hear, hear). In his opinion, none of our native troops should be kept longer in the West Indies than four years, or in the Eta longer than ten. The amount of force pro posed to be kept up at home he thought most incon ' siderately excessive, especially with any view to pre serve the tranquillity of the country, which was not likely to be disturbed, but which, if at all disturbed, the power of the Magistracy and the Police was amply sufficient to restore. What, then, could be the reason for maintaining such a force? In the'Pre amble to the Mutiny Bill of 1812, it was stated, that the great object for keeping up the Army then pro posed was, to restore and maintain the balance of power in Europe. But no such reason was assigned now, although -he could not help thinking that ba lance seriously threatened by the proceedings of the Continental Sovereigns with respect to Naples. If the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) proposed to send a body of men to Malta, with a view to watch these proceedings, he (Sir Robert Wilson) should not cer tainly oppose the grant ; nor did he think any friend to liberty would object to it; and the Noble Lord might rely that lie and his Government would yet feel compelled to interfere with regard to Naples—(Hear, hear). For it was impossible that England could passively witness Austria for six years in possession of Naples, or still more, see Russia take possession of Sicily—for which purpose he happened to know that the Russian Government was now actually pre paring a fleet to go to the Mediterranean—(Loud cries of Hear, hear, from the Opposition Benches). But to return to the amount of force proposed for our home department; lie thought that still the less ne cessary, as it appeared from the force called out in 1819, that Government might at once put a large force in requisition, if any occasion should require it. If Government could nut do so legally, then a Bill of Indemnity should be brought forward to shelter all those Officers who had enforced martial law in the battalions called oat in 1819.—One word as to . . the Foreign Enli s tme n t A c t, w hi c h h a d b een a ll u d e d to by the Hon. the Under Secretary of State for the Colonial .Department. That Hon. Gentleman had stated, that the English Officers who had gone to South America, in order to aid the cause of the In surgents, had experienced a very ungracious recep tion ; but he (Sir R. Wilson) would undertake to say, that if that Act were repealed, English Officers might • be fully assured of a very different receOen among the gallant corps now struggling for liWsw,irl Na ples—(Hear. hear). Mr. EVANS felt himself bound to support the Re solution for the reduction of 10,000 then, because he felt that the finances of the country were not in a si tuation to support the proposed expenditure. He thought itwas imperative upon that House to avoid, as much as possible, entailing,a load of debt and taxa tion upon posterity—(Hear, hear). Colonel WOOD, in explanation, observed, that he did not contemn any saving, however small; but he did not wish a living of 810,000 should be made at the expense of those brave fellows who had seined in the West ladies so much beyond the usual period. . Sir H. VIVIAN said, that if the objections made to oar caval r y h orses were to hold good, oar cavalry' would have to go abroad with their saddles ein backs in search of propershorses. Sir F. BLAKE spoke in support of the Resolution. for taking 10,000 men from our present military fop e.• If, however, Ministers would pledge themselves to . deduct from the army expenditure a sum sufficient to pay and support 10,000 men, he had no objection to the army remaining at its present amount, as by this a saving of £300,000 would be made. Sir R. WILSON, in explanation, observed, that each cavalry horse cost twenty five guineas. If they' allowed six years of peace, then the charge of keep ing each horse would be 150 guineas; add to this the expense of transporting, which was twenty-five gui neas for each horse, it would be found that no horse (ould be sent out of this country under £2OO at least. Mr. W. WILLIAMS supported the amendment, amidst loud cries of « Question!" Lord CASTLEREAGH said he did not rise for the purpose of entering at length into the details of the question, but for the purpose of making a few observations upon what had been urged by those Gentlemen who supported the Amendment. Accord ing to the Returns it appeared that, exclusive of India, we had a force of 70,350 men, rank and file. Sup pose that from this number 10,000 were to be de ducted, there would remain 60,350 men. Allowing the army deficiencies to be 5,000 men, there would remain an effective force of 55,350 men for the Home and Colonial service. Deduct from this the number of men necessary for our Colonial service, and there would remain but 29,850 men. Take from this 14,000 men, the number composing the Life Guards and Cavalry, and there would remain 15,850 men for the service of Great Britain and Ireland, and also for the purpose of relieving an army of 50,000 men abroad. Now he would leave it to any man acquainted with military matters, to state whether the service of the country could be efficiently per formed with such a number of men—(hear, hear). Mr. CALCRAFT said, it was not his intention to occupy the attention of the House for more than a very few minutes. He rose solely for the purpose or correcting the mi , tatements of the Noble Lord— (Hear, hear, flora the Ministerial Benches).—He re peated, the mistatements—the palpable mistate ments of the Noble Lord. He was surprised that the Noble Lord could think of risking his credit upon assertions directly in the face of the Returns which had been laid on the table—(Hear, hear).—The Army Estimates proposed 81,000 men; from this number it was proposed, that 10000 men should be reduced, leaving 71,000 men to do the duty .of the country— (Hear, hear).—The Noble Lord had next gone to the old, refuted, exploded story about reliefs--(Hear, hear).—Did not the Noble Lord take the Depots of fo reign stations into account ? These Depots amounted a short time ago to 5,500 men, and he supposed that they must be nearly equal to that number, and also ' equally available for the public service. As to India, it was out of the question, as the India Company were annually raising recruits in this country. After a few words from Mr. CALCRAFT and Ge neral GAscOYNE, Lord PALMERSTON observed, that there were 2000 men belonging to foreign stations, in the depot at Aldborough, at this very moment. This shewed that we never could calculate upon having abroad the proposed number of troops. Of this number 619 were ready to go abroad, and 1300 were unfit to be sent out. Notwithstanding what had been said about the exploded doctrine of reliefs, he would inform the Honourable Member, that the number of troops now afloat on their passage home, and those going out as reliefs, amounted to 4.500 men, which force was for so far a non-effective body of men. It had been ar gued, by several Honourable Members, that the Mi litia might be called in aid of the public service, but every man who had read the Militia Act must know that the Militia could only be called out by ,Pro. clamation—(Hear, hear). Mr. NIACDONALD, in reply, observed, that the Noble Lord (Castlereagh), in pointing out the dif ferent branches of our military force, had oberveill that the Guards and Cavalry amounted to 14.,000 1 men. But why were those branches of our Military Establishment so large ? It had been repeatedly. urged from his (Mr. Macdonald's) side of the house, that the number of Household t roo p s an d a t Cavalry:t ought to be reduced—(Near, hear). The proposed Amendment would, if carried, leave a force of 51,621'1 men for the service of this country ; add to this 4000 Marines, and ten Battalions of Veterans, amounting to eleven thousand men, and there would be at the disposal of Government a force of 66,000 men; to which might be added 37,000 Yeomanry and 20,0001 Volunteers. So that, taking regular and irregular Troops, there would remain an available force of up wards of 100,000 men, independently of the Troops l for the Service of the Colonies. Under these cir cumstances, he felt that so irresistible a case had been made out, that he should be wanting in his duty both to the House and the Country, if he did not take the sense of the Committee on the Amendment. The House then divided— For the Amendment - - - - 11.5 Against it Majority against a reduction of 10,000 men —96 Another division took place on Mr. DAwsoies proposition for a reduction of 5,000 men from the Estimates. The numbers were— For the Amendment - - - 130 Againtt it - - - 195 Majority Tin House having resumed. the Report was ordered to be received to-morrow. Oh' G. WARRENDE•A gave notice, that he should bring forward the bitavp Estiniptes on Mogdisg. Ale other .9rdei of the D 47 were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at Haltupist Twelve this morning. • EVENING STAR. LONDON. THURSDAY, MARCH 15, 1821. The lliOuse of Commons went again, last 'night, into a COmmittee of Supply' on the Army I:: :timate , . Mr. MACDC/NALD pioposed, as an Amendment, that 'there should be a reduction of 10,000 men in the 'military force of the country. A long discussion ensued,, and okiinately a division took place, when the Amendment was negatived by a majority of 96; the numberi For the Redieibtr....-..ats I Against It ~ . .. .....«411. Mr. Desissott then moved for a reduction to the number Of-5,000; but this was also negatived, by 195 to 130. The original Resolution, for granting 81,458 men, was then agreed to, and the Report was ordered to be received this day. Mr. R. SMITH moved, in thie early part of the evening, for Copies of all Communications which have taken place between our Government and the Government of Austria, relative to the Austrian Loan. Lord CASTLEREAGH did not oppose the Motion, and the Papers were ordered. It is certainly high time, when Austria is setting out on a crusade against the liberties of mankind, that something should be done to make her refund the money she borrowed from us to assist her in maintaining her place among nations, and without which she might probably, ere now, have sunk into a wholesome state of insignificance. We have received Oporte Papers to the Ist instant. They contain accounts from Rio Janeiro down to the sth of January, from which we are enabled to extract a more particular detail than had previously reached us, of the deliberations of King Jour; and Council, with regard to the Revolution in the Mother Country. -• It is confirmed in the most positive manner, that 'n one of the Sittings of the Council held in the presence of the KING, the Conde des A ncos spoke in favour of the new order of things in Portugal, and expressed his opinion with great firmness. He said, it was highly important, and at the same tire conformable with the dignity of the Crown, to adopt the Constitutional Sys tem, not only for Portugal, but also for Brasil, where the spirit of liberty was making a rapid prcgress. The Ministers, VILLA Novat and TAnorNt , replffid to the Count, and endeavoured to prove that the principles which he had laid down were very con trary to the true principles of Monarchy. The reasons adduced by the Count des A ;mos in favour of the Constitutional System, are said to hale made a great impression on the mind of the KING.-- It is also affirmed, that their Royal Highnesses, the sons of his MAJESTY, are well inclined to these changes, and have declared as much to their au gust father. The troops take a great part in the general joy caused by the gents in Portugal, and the Europeans especially distinguish themselves. These last doubt less form the best part of the force of the Govern. ment. They amount to 8000 at least. From the disposition of the troops, and of the in habitants of the Brazils at large, there can be little doubt that the Revolution which has commenced at Para, but which at the date of these accounts was not known at Rio Janeiro, must speedily spread over the whole of Portuguese America, and that the Km) will have to concede to necessity, what, had the ad vice of the Conde des ARC os been followed, he might have had the merit of granting as a boon. A Correspondent of The Correiro do Porto, starts a difficulty as to the grounds on which the Cortes are proceeding in the formation of a new Constitu tion. He secs no one who is to represent the KING in drawing up the constitutional contract between him and his People; and he insinuates that to pro ceed in this business inaudito regc, is to shake, or even to destroy, the firm and unaltei able basis, which the Cortes has already proclaimed, of fidelity and subjec tion to Don JOHN VI. This difficulty, of which the Cor respondent requests a solution, is, in reality, a frivo lous sophism of his own creation. It implies what is di rectly contrary to the fact and to common sense, that in declaring theit Continued allegiance to JOHN VI. they recognize him as in lawful possession of that absolute power which his predecessors had usurped, and which he had, heretofore, been permitted to-ex ercise. Had this been their meaning, undoubtedly they could not, without a violation of their primary principle, have stirred one step without the formal authority of the Sovereign. But they were not such drivellers, as at the very outset of their constitu tive labours to lay down a principle which might prove destructive of the very purpose which they had been delegated by the People to carry into effect : The true view of the subject is this.... The Portuguese Nation, in consequence of a long course of misgovernment on the part of their devoric Rulers, have resumed their original and indefeasible right of forming a political system better adapted for attaining the great ends of individual happiness ard • national prosperity. Generously attributing the evils I which they had suffered rather to the vices inherent in arbitrary sway, than to the personal character of thr. Monarch, they have not availed themselves of the long absence of JotiN VI. to follow the example of England in 1688, by d ec l ar i ng t h at h e h ad abdizated the Throne, bus they have invited him to return, and - T