Star. — London, England, 1821-03-28 00:00:00

be w ould not oppose the Petition being receiv ede b ut be could assure the Honourable Gentleman, the was not quite so simple as he appeared to ink it; nor would the repeal give such at i s faction as he represented. The Chamber tammerce, in. Dublin, had declared its doubts as to t he advantages that were likely to result lions the tereal of these Duties. re HENRY PARNELL was in favour of the r aver of the Petition. The Petition was then received, and was from the Manufacturers of Hats at Newcastle-under-Line. It "Dread, and ordered to be printed. CATHOLIC CLAIMS BILL. .Sr JOHN NEWPORT then rose to movethe Or aer of the Day for the House going into a Commit ta on the above Bill. Some conversation took place between Sir JOHN Netteoar, the SPEAKER, Mr. BANI(118, and others, as to die course to be adopted for consolidatingthe two Bills now before the House. Sr JOHN NEWPORT then proposed that the :Thu f o r regulating the intercourse betweetube Catho- Be Clergy and the See of Rome should be referred to the Committee. Mr. HUTCHINSON could not suffer this Motion pass without declaring his objections to this Inter course Bill. The more he looked at this Bill—the more communication he had with others on the sub. jest-..the more he was convinced that there was a strong feeling in the minds of the Catholic Clergy, both of England and Ireland. against the Bill; and at another stage of the Bill he should feel it his duty to go into his objections in the detail. Sr GEORGE HILL said, the Honourable Mem ber who had just sat down had told the Douse rather 'lmmaturely what would be the effect of this conci liatory measure, as it was called. He was sorry the Honourable Member had not given the House this information ten days ago, and before the House had agreed to the most important clauses of the Bill. He had formerly urged for -a few days delay to enable the House to obtain the real opinion of the Catholics on this important question ; for he was convinced, to render this measure beneficial, it must be rendered satisfactory to the feelings of the Catholics. When he proposed a delay of ten days, on a former night, he adverted to what had been said by Dr. Milner and Dr. Hayes on the subject of the disaffection of the Popish Clergy to this measure. These persons were then discredited, but it now, appeared that what they said was true. Mt. HUTCHINSON observed, the Right Honour able Baronet seemed to insinuate that he bad had this information some time, and kept it back ; he denied the justness of the insinuation; he had not received his information till Saturday. Ile stated it yester day, and could not have done so earlier. Mr. CAREW entered into song further details of the conduct of Mr. Hayes at Rome, and read docu ments in confirmation of his former statement. Mr. M. FITZGERALD would, in a future stage express his objections to the second Rill; to which, as a Protestant, he bad as strong objections as any Catholic could have. He should take the first regular opportunity of stating his objections to the measure. On the Clause being read For excluding Catholics 'km certain offices, Mr. PEEL said, that be should now move to ex- I tend the exclusion to seats in the Privy Council, and t 6 judicial situations. He should confine himself strictly to the object before the House. It had been truly said, that the admission to seats in Parliament eonld'Uot Make any other exclusion of inferior mo ment. The reasons he had he would address equally to the friends and enemies of the Bill. By the vote of last night the exclusively Protestant Parliament bad been done away ; though in the third branch of the Government the exclusion was still retained. By all former Acts, the Crown was required to main tain the Protestant Religion. In these Acts was con tallied the contract between the King and the Peo ple, as the King in return for the allegiance of the subjects, was bound to preserve the national faith. To whi)m was be to look for the maintenance of that contract? Not to the Monarch, for he was irrespon sible; bat to the advisers of the Crown he was to look for the maintenance of that contract. With re spect to the Monarch, if he was only to marry a Ca tholic wife he would forfeit the allegiance of his Peo ple. It was necessary then that the advisers of the Crown should be attached to the Protestant faith. There was more risk in a Protestant King having Catholic advisers, than in a Catholic King having Protestant advisers. There was more danger from Charles 11. surrounded by the Cabal, than from James, sur rounded by Protestant Councillors. It might be said, that no security was taken against an Atheist; but the answer was, that the Bill of Rights was not di rected against the Atheist, but against the Catholic. If he could, he would exclude the Atheist also. In die words of Mr. Burke he (Mr. Peel) would ex tlude the Catholic from offices that were instrumen tal. By the Bill the Catholic could give no advice as to the disposal of any Church patronage. But it would be less offensive to the Catholic to exclude him altogether, than thus to disqualify him. The Catholic was also prevented from advising the Crown on the subjeCt of ecclesiastical patronage under a high penalty; while at the same time he was bound by his oath to advise the Crown in all cases what ever. If a Catholic was a Minister of State, and the enestion wits the education of the children of the jln could he, when called upon for his advice, from Lis heart and conscience, advise the King's children to be educated in the Protestant faith ?—(Hear, hear). , He (Mr. Peel) at least could conceive that many con- Catholics would not recommend the din.' ihtti of any man to be educated in the Protestant kith. The oath of the Privy Councillor differed from any otbel, asit called upon him not only to ab. are any foreign authority, but to defend petuliirly ait Protestant faith. That was the ground on which h proposed the exclusion of Catholics from the l'tiey Council. He should next propose to exclude the echolic from the Beach in Englaud and Ireland, theligh he was willin; Ingrain him a silk gown. He Ile_lght be told, that it was an anomaly to give dee catholic a silk gown, and to exclude him from the Ike* Bit the whole of the Dill was full of ant). %lilies. Whatever haJ been the result of the vote *the House, he wits prepared to have put the En - 1 Uh and lush Bishop s o n the same footing, and to' 11181 t gained totter Catholit Barrister the honour of the silk gown. Al the co o* of Catholic? from • St Bench, it balloon distinctly stated by the author of the Bill, that the Irish Catholics were fully satis fied • with the administration of justice, which he was afraid would not be the case should Catholics, be admitted to the Bench. He believed that the Judges had been always in communion with the, Church of England, and if th e o bj ect o f t h e Bill wal l to put the Catholics on the same footing with the Dissenters, that was here the case—(Hear,iiter).-- On the Assizes, the Judges commenced by attending Divine Service; which, in the way of example, was calculated to have a pcwerful effect upon the so lemnity of the proceeding, previous to deciding on the fortunes and the life of a fellow-creature. If the Catholic Judge should, in a populous County, ab stain from attending Divine Service, it would weaken the effect of the administration of justice; and should he join is communion with his own Church, he ap prehended the effe:ts would be still worse. Justice had been done by the friends of the measure to those who had conscientiously opposed it ; and he trusted the same justice would be done to the feelings of the Protestants, who had been silent, not from apathy, but from a confidence in that calumniated House of Commons. When so much had been gained by the friends of the Bill, he trusted that, for the object of the general satisfaction, that would be conceded which Protestants might deem necessary for their security. The . Right Honourable Gentleman con cluded by moving to add the words, " or to be in the Privy Council." Sir J. NEWPORT complimented the Right Hon. Gentleman on the temper and moderation of his speech. The words of the Act of Settlement.were, that the King should be of the communion of the Established Church of England; but, at the same time, by the terms of the Act, the whole of the Privy Councillors might be of the Established Church of Scotland, and he had no doubt that at present seve ral of the Privy Councillors were of the Church of Scotland. It did not then follow, that because the King must be of the Church o f England, 'his ad visers must be of the same persuasion. The Right Hon. Gentleman had said, that in this case he was not to look to the Sovereign ; but in the single case of his religious belief the Sovereign was personally responsible, and could not plead the advice of his Ministers. The Right Honourable Gentleman had said, it would be less offensive to exclude a man ' wholly from office, than to limit him in the exercise of part of his patronage. The oath of a Privy Coun cillor was subject, if necessary, to the revision of the Legislature, and thus the objections of the Right Honourable Gentleman could be easily removed.— At present we had a Catholic Ambassador from Pro teitant Denmark, and a Protestant Ambassador from Catholic Bavaria: that :hewed the toleration and li berality that prevailed abroad. The cases of Hun gary and Ireland bore a strong resemblance. The population of Hungary was seven millions, and three millions of it Protestant, with a Catholic Hierarchy. At one of the Diets a proposition was made to admit the Protestants to all the privileges enjoyed by Ca tholics, and the numbers were 291 for the proposi tion, and only Be against it. That took place in 1791, at Buda ; and though, while Bonaparte was atVienna, temptations to insurrection were held out, the Hun garians evinced the most determined attachment to the House of Austria • though formerly the country had been torn by inte rnal dissensions, which the com munity of privileges had wholly done away. The concession of the silk gown would not be of much advantage to the Irish Bar. There was no complaint made against the administrators of justice ; but it was a great hardship that any set of men should be excluded from the honours of their profession ; and every Catholic must feel aggrieved at the exclusion, when he recollected ttat some of the greatest orna ments of the Bench had/risen from humble ranks.— Without meaning anything invidious, it was only ne cessary to look to "the Noble Person who now held the Seals in this country. On the subject of the ex clusion of Dissenters, he could state, that the late Michael Foster was a Dissenter, and so also was the late Earl of Rosslyn. He had always looked to this measure as the best security for the Protestants, as it embodied all in one common cause. As the proposed exclusion did not appear to him to be necessary, he must oppose it. The exclusion from Office was a penalty for crimes, and especially of a breach of trust ; and would not that be regarded as a stigma upon the Catholics'? To the objection that the Ca tholic wits bound to substitute his own religion, he could only state, that when the late Mr. Perceval had, in the debate on the Catholic question, said, than were he a Catholic, and Councillor to a Protestant Prince, he would endeavour to introduce his own re ligion, Mr. Grattan had then said across the table, 4. I don't believe it." He afterwards made an apology for the warmth into which he had been betraye d, adding, that if the Right Hon. Gentleman was sin cere, he must give him credit for his probity at the, expense of his veracity. To that objection be would make the same reply, as it was a principle that all Catholics had'uniformly disclaimed. Sir J. NICHOL argued in favour of the Amend ment ; and contended, that as seats in Parliament had been conceded, it was not too much to expect , from the Committee, that, for the sake of security to Protestants, the amendment should be agreed to.— He admitted that foreign influence, from the down fall of Bonaparte, did not strike him with so much alarm as before. The danger now was not so much from foreign as from domestic influence. It was not enough to look to the Catholics alone, but also to the unhappy tendency of the lower orders to sectarian 'principles and however widely sectarians might differ among diens/elves, they **re prone to unite against the Established Church. He was not appre beefier* of a Catholic lastablisitmeat in Ireland, as, by the Articles of the Uisionb the Protestant Religion was **kind to be a fundamental part of the Union; and be would do that justice to the Catholics, that, when brought into the Hops*, they would be the last to make such an attempt. But he was afraid that a handle would be afforded to demagogues to disturb the peace of the Church, by interfering in the pay eseat of tithes. and for the sake of affor d in g the lProteetant every desirable secqrity, he sh ould vote fer the Amendment. Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that be was ez• trent* anxious to concur in ;ay proposition that was made in the tone and temper of that.of his Right Hon. Friend. In 1818, when the particular clause for seats in Parliament had been lost, he was anxious :that the whole Hill should be withdrawn. Ms advice. to the Catholics would be, that they should pay respect to the concessions that might be made to them i by the Legislature. But he thought this measure had a tendency to keep alive a Catholic Question ; and, thinking so, he would sacrifice his own prin ciples in acceding to such a motion. He went along with his Hon. Friend, in thinking that by the Articles. of the Union, the Protestant Church of Ireland was merged in the Protestant Church of the Empire. No individual could suppose that the modelling of the Protestant Churn of Ireland, with a view to the Ca tholic population, could ever be entertained. It might be as well to propose to model the Protestant Church of England. But at this time there was a provision for the Catholics in Scotland, and also a provision for the Presbyterians in Ulster, which had been at tended with the happiest effect. The United Par liament could not make the case of the Protestant Church of Ireland-a subject of deliberation, whatever the divided Legislature might do. The admission to office was a question not of principle, but of pru dence. The question was to be argued upon the prin ciple that the whole of the Constitution was funda• mentally Protestant. There was no proportion of Catholic population in Great Britain that could be attended with any alarms. The population of Ire- 1 laud had, for the purpose of debate, been much over rated. Though the Catholic.: in Ireland were in a' proportion of about four to three,. still the property was in the hands of the Protestants in a proportion of 49 to 50 of landed property. He could declare, that in his opinion, if this Bill passed, there would not be above five or six Catholic Members who could find their way into that House. This, therefore, could have no effect in raising anything formidable to the Protestant Establishment in' Church and State. He could not look forward even to a very distant day when Catholics would become of dangerous influence, from property, in the State; but, if he even could, he would wish to let the Catholics into Parliament while their influence was yet innosious ; and while they might gradually assimilate themselves to their Pro testant brethren. As every Minister must have the confidence of the Parliament as well as that of the King, he could never conceive that the Crown cop ever think of bringing in a Catholic Administration. He saw no real danger in permitting Catholics to sit In the Privy Council, as long as the Protestant King and Parliament were at the head of the State; nei ther did he (Lord Castlereagh) think that the Judges, if Catholics, would ever err against a Protestant, for fear of the constructions which would be put upon their conduct. Besides, the Bill provided for the continuance of a Protestant Chancellor ; and he could not believe that such a man would ever fill the Bench or • the Bar with Catholics. His first duty was to take care of the Protestantfteligion of Ireland, which Parliament could not touch or remodel, without at the same time remodelling-the Church of England, with which it was inseparably connected. There was nothing in these concessions that could reader the Catholics dangerous to the State. Sir J. NICHOL and Lord CASTLEREAGH mutually explained. Mr. LEE KBCK spoke against the measure ; but if it was to be carried, he trusted-it would be attended with success. Mr. WETHERELL said, the proposers of this Bill had admitted that no Catholic should be al lowed to sit in any Office 'of Judicature on matters connected - with the maintenance of the Established Church; but matters of this kind were sometimes agitated in. the Temp Oral Courts; and, therefore,' Catholics should be ineligible to sit on tlje Bench. A Catholic Judge could never sit on Ecclesiastical mat ters, or advise the Council or the House of Lords upon them. As to Catholic's: sitting in tke Privy Council, every one knew that every Privy Council lor could visit the King in his closet, and exclude any third person from being present. How, - then, could they punish him for any criminal advice which he might give? He was not obliged to give his ad vice in writing, and of consequence he could not be punished for it. . Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH contended that the Bill only provided for the Catholics, and the great legal security of . the State was to be settled on_ the part of : the Catholics on the same footing as those respecting - . the Protestant Dissenters. When his Honourable and Learned Friend had supplied him with the means by which we could now as certain the natnre of the advice given by Protes tant Privy Councillors at this time, then he would tell him how it became equally possible to learn it' in the case of a Catholic Privy Councillor. He as sured the Right Honourable Member (Mr. Peel), that some of our best Judges were formerly Nonconform ists ; and he saw no reason why Catholics, as well as Nonconformists, should not be admitted to the Bench. They had to decide the 'rights of persons of almost all religions and churches under Heaven; but he never telt any undue partiality towards Christians over the Pagans or Mahometans. Mr. BARHAM confirmed the testimony of those ,whb said that Father Hayes was ordered by the Ro man Government to quit Rome in three days. He had seen the order, and the depositions on which that order was founded. The Gallery was then cleared for a division— For Exclusion Against it Majority against Mr. Pares Clause —l9 On the re-admission of strangers to we Gallery, Mr. GOULDURN was urging the exclusion, as related to the Governors of Colonies, on the ground of the power possessed by such individuals, not only in tivil; but in Ecclesiastical affairs-also. No less than seventone livings were at the disposal of Governors of Co lonies; and he could not but consider, that so permit Catholics to administer the government in the Colonies, would be to endanger the Protestant Establishment in those possessions. The Honourable Member then moved an Amendment to exclude Ca tbolicrfrom the government of the Colonies. Upon this Ameacknent the Committee divided— For the Amendment Against it 163 Majority against occlusion - - —s3 Mr. PEEL proposed an Amendment in the Com-. mittee to exclude Catholics from holdilg the situa tion of Lord High Chancellor of Iretamk which was agreed to without a division. • 'The several other Clauses in this the first Bill, as it was called, were then agreed to, and the first Clause in the Intercourse with Rome Bill was then read. Mr. HUTCHINSON objected to going into this Mute at so late an hour—(Cries of Go on !)—lf it was the opinion of the Committee that he should 44 he was ready to proceed. The Hon. Gentleman. proceeded, and described this as a Clause of Pains and Penalties--(Much confusion prevailed in the House). Mr. FITZGERALD (of Kerry) suggested the pro prim of now adjourning, and taking the debate at I an earlioi end cooler hour.* Sir J. NEWPORT acceded to this proposithin, and suggested that the Committee shOuld sit again tMs day, take the Report the next day, and the third read ing, on Monday. , Lord C ASTLERE AG II agreed to this suggestion, and at the same time reminded Gentlemen, that by opposing these clauses they would endanger the safety of the s hole measure. The House then resumed, the CUAIRMAN repotted progress, and obtained leave to sit again this day. THE ARMY RSTIMATES. Lord PA LMF.H.STON F. gave notice, that he would move the Army Estimates on Friday. The miler Orders were disposed of, and the House adjourned at llalf-iast Twelve. ITALY. The details of the Revolution at Turin are already known ; but the following spirited Proclamation, which was the first cause of the change of Govern. ment, has not hitherto been made public. It is con. tuned in a - letter from Genoa, of the 15th insuint : " THt ARMY TO THt CITIZENS. " The standard of desputiun is with us for ever struck. Out couutry, that has so long groaned under the most opprobrious chains, breathes at last the air of fraternity and of peace. " Citizens ! the hour of Italian independence is arrived. The Constitution of Spain, which was proclaimed and sworn to on the night of the oth inst. by the Brigade of Genoa, by the King's own Dragoons, and by the federated Italians, shall henceforward be the only law of Italy, by means of which, united by the most sacred ties, the King and the People will form one sole family. " Citizens! the dignities and honours of the State, now here ditary and the offspring of arbitrary power, shall be elective, and be the rewards of merit only ; and in the laws alone shall dwell the strength of the State. This new lode of social compact, bonded upon the religion of our forefathers, shall form the bond of internal security to our country, and shall serve as an impene trable barrier against any foreign phalanx that dares to attack us. " Citizens! suffer not yourselves to be led astray by the few insidious enemies of the public prosperity; banish from your minds every sentiment of revenge ; and let your cry be Long live the King !—Long live the Spanish Constitution !—Long live our dear Italy !' (Signed) is The President of the Provisional Junta of Government, 46 Alexandria, 10th March. ANSALDL" GENOA, MARCH 14—(Evening.) An estafette is arrived from Turin, confirming the news of the Spanish Constitution having been de clared ; and a Proclamation will be issued here this evening, announcing the King's acceptan'Ce (If that Constitution, together with his subsequent resignation, and the appointment of the Prince of Carignano as Regent. by the Tuscan Mail, which is just arrived, we understand there are letters stating that the troops and people of Florence have declared for the Spanish Constitution. We have not time to ascertain the truth of this information, as the post is this instant leaving Genoa. - • TURIN, MARCH 17. PROCLAMATION BY HIS ROYAL MGM NESS THE PRINCE REGENT TO THE ROYAL ARMY. • " As. Regent of the Kingdom, I have taken the oath of fide lity to our King, Charles Felix, and to the Constitution, In the presence of the Provisional Julaa, which represents the National Parliament. Soldiers ! honour and faithfulness reside where the Prince Regent, he to whom the King has confided his au thority, tells you they exist. Beware of Insidious guides who shall point out a different pith ! Yon will preserve that faith and obedience which you owe to the sovereign authority. You will protect your own glory and that of Italy, whose whole at tention is fixed upon you. " You will shew yourselves worthy of a Government that has instituted equal rewards for virtue, and which opens a field to all honours and all dignities. The two extremities of Italy, being !lofted in one spirit, to what a degree of glory will not our beautiful and much•envied country he raised! You will main itain, soldiers, the character of a warlike nation, faithful to your King and tb the Constitution, and deserving at the same time of the highest destinies. " CHARLES ALBERT. " Turin, 15th March." The following are the terms of the Oath taken by the Prince Regent before the Provisional Junta : " I, Charles Albert of Savoy, Prince of Carignano, Regent of the Kingdom, invest e d w i t h authority by the abdication of his Majesty, Victor Emmanuel, according to our declaration of the 15th current, swear before GOD, on the flolfEvangelists, to observe the Political Constitution of Spaih, subject to the two essential modifications hereafter specified, and which are inhe rent to this Kingdom, analogous to the general will of the Na. tion, and accepted by the Provisional Junta, viz. " 1. That the order of succession to the Throne, such as it is established fir the ancient law s an d customs of this Kingdom, and by Public Treaties; shall be maintained. "2. That shall observe, and cause to be observed, the Ca. tholic Apostolic and Roman Religion, which is that of the State; without, however, excluding the exercise of other Religions hitherto permitted ; and moreover, subject to such other modi fications as may be determined by the National Parliament, in concert with his Majesty the King. I also swearto be faithful to his Majesty the King.—So help me Gors. (Signed) " CHARLES ALBERT." DECK " Ceauss ALM?, or Savor, &c. &c. a With the sanction of the Provisional Junta, we have do- . creed and do decree as follows: " 1. Within five days from the publication of the present De cree there sisal be established in e v er y c i ty , town, and village, a N ational Guard, destined for the maintenance of public security. " 2. AU individuals, from the age of 13 to So inclusive, with. the exception of Feclesiastics and Public Functionaries, shall form part of the National Guard. " 5. The National Guard shall be divided into Companies, and into Battalions. " 4. In every chief plate of a Province there shall be a cape+ nor Commandant of the National Guard, nominated by us. 'We shalt also nominate the Majors of the respective Battalions ; but the other Officers and Sub-officers shall be nominated by the re spective Companies, and selected from the individuals of whom they are composed. " 5. The arths requisite for the National Guard shall be sup plied on the meeting of the respectiye Civic or Municipal Admi nistrations. " 6. The Captains of the National Guard shay wear on the left arm a blue band, fringed with gold; the Lieutenants the same, fringed with silver and blue silk; the Serjex:ts to have yellow silk ; and the Corporals to have white silk frins. " 7. The provisions of this Decr ee d o not extend te e the city of Tatht or Gellol4 " CHARLES ALBERT. 1 " Turin, /6th March." No less than three Theatres in London are engaged, during the present Lent, in Lectures on Astronomy ; but our Country Readers need not regret their ina bility to attend them, as the recently-published Work of '4. Twenty Lectures on the Wonders qf the Heavens," 'contains not only the most popular views of this science ever published, but is illustrated by forty-six splendid and costly Engravings, which supply the place of the 1 scenery addressed to the London audiences. 1 ",~ '-