Star. — London, England, 1822-02-12 00:00:00

1 ~- -; .- wara naintrox. and We R.Witsore,, the latter postponed his Motion until 'Thursday aesx Mr. COKE wisherttotnow from a Right Hon. Gentleman ite, whether way relaxation had taken place respeetiorthe Ofseiliery Laws? A report bad generally prevailed that sock wirhterhe ease. 'CHANCELLOR at the EXCHEQUER said, s MiP take bad been very prevalent respecting these laws ; and the supposed alteration was merely an explanation of the laws, which he had directed to be seat to those who were interested in the subject. THE DISTRESS OF THE COUNTRY. * Mr. BROUGHAM began by saying, that in ri to call the attention of the House to the distr under which the country was labouring, he was not insensible to the great importance of that question. He felt the weight and the magnitude of the subject cm-which he was about entering. It might, per-imps; be a cause of surprise to many, that he should bring on a questiuti of that nature. He was well aware that there were many Hon. Gentlemen in that House whose talents and whose pursuits enabled them to do the subject more justice than •he could pretend to. He would have rather his Hon. Friend, the Member fpr Ester (Mr. Western) had undertaken the task which had fallen on him. Although he differed from that Hon. Gent. in some material points, yet he should be very happy the question had been brought on by him. At the risk, lrowe4er, of all disadvantages under which the discussion might labour in his hands, he would en deavour to bring it forward,' although it might hap pen that .he could give but little salisfaction to any of the great interests which the question involved. After all that had been said upon the subject, the great market for . the produce or manufacture of any country was its internal market. He had learned, and from sources that he could not •doubt, that the state of the manufacturing towns and districts was not by any means so bad as was represented ; he had also learned that the profits on the goods seat to fo reign markets were much less than at any former period. One consequenee of that disappointment was a determination on tile part of the manufacturers to lessen the quantity of their manufactures. Within the last ten days a Meeting had been held of the iron masters on the subject, and the result was an agree ment to resort to that unhappy experiment of re dicing the quantity of their business, their last Christ mas balance having turned out to be much less than the preceding one. The consequence to be expected front this determination would be, that a number of ~- '~-:~~ Pte'. . years, already sufficient psi and the ' 'equal to , came . ;without minadon year 1806,ithe wain.. _ country 79i millimill; in 1890 the expenses were 76 millions, being a relief of four 'nations between the second. 1 e ar of war and the sixth year of peace, so that we nd the expense of *BO6 was only one million more an in 1890, and the revenue was nearly thiksatuni ,The Learned Gentleman here entered into a trail of argumms, to prove that the boasted improvement. of the revenue was fallacious, panic-0%1.1y with re ference to Ireland, the net revenue having been 41 millions in 1818; in 1820, 8 millions ; and in 1821, about four millions; so that the late improvement did not bring it up to its amount in 1818. The re venue of this country, independent of loans, was this year, sixtt-one millions; last year it was sixty mil ' lions ; the revenue of this year was one million more than in 1806; and thatof last year nearly equal $ its so that in the sixth year of peace, one million more was drawn from the people than in the second year of war. This he could not trace to any connexion with the state or nature of the currency. It was only in 1800 that any depreciation could be observed WI commence in the exchanges and currency caused by 1 the substitution of paper for gold. In 1800 the , standard price of gold was ES. 17s.10id. per ounce. The bullion price was £4. ss. being a depreciation of nine and one-tenth per cent. It afterwards fell and fluctuated, and these fluctuations hada most injurious influence upon trade, for in some instances it amounted to thirty per cent. He stated this, bearing in his re collection the declaration of the Right Honourable Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) that Bank notes had never suffered a depreciation.— - I The market price of gold was in 1811 and 1812, £4. 19s. lid. per ounce, being a depression of twenty seven per cent. The meanie of these years was 73i millions. If it were desired to ascertain how much that amounted to in gold, for the purpose of proving the sum really paid by the people, nineteen millions must be deducted from that sum, being the difference (twenty-seven, per cent.) between the excess in the price of gold. Having returned to a metallic cur rency, we now pay in fact between seven and eight millions more than in the years of war 1811 and 1812. [Some murmurs here took place on the Ministerial side of the House, when the Honourable Gentleman said be was ready to abandon the position he had taken, and rest his calculation on the price of gold at £4. 10s. per ounce, even by which it would be found that we pay this year in sovereigns one million more than we did in those years in guineas —.Weer). In those years we had every sea filled with our fleets—every foreign port with our expedi tions—every foreign Court with oar subsidies. Nor were we free at home from perils and dissention. Temps me:, periculorus *sera Tarifa midi. What would the House think when it found that, in the years 1813, 1814,. and 1815. 'those years of in: ordinate profusion—those years in which we squan. dered 140 or 150 millions per annum, what would the House think when it would find that, in this very ' year, the people pay, in taxes, as much as they did in those.years of war ?—(Hear)..—.£s per ounce, was, in 1813, 1814, and 1815, the average price of gold, answering to a difference with the present price of 28 per cent. If the Revenue were reduced by so much (nearly 43} millions), 61 millions only would be left, which differed very little from the amount of the Re venue of this present year--(Hear). The Learned Gentleman here argued, that by the change of cur , reney four millions had been added to the iblZei; and, not content with that, three millions of new taxes had been laid on, in order to crush the people to the earth by their weight. These taxes had been laid on in the dark—the blow bad been, given without knowing where it would light. There existed great difference of opinion en the effect of taxation on a count; but there were some points on which all must agree— first, that the great expenditure of capital must have the necessary effect of increasing prices—not merely while that expenditure was going on, but after k . had ceased altogether. The consequence was, that the capital being diminished, the profits on the remain der of capital must be 'increased in the same ratio ; that was undeniable, by a rule that had always been received. A diminution of the capital stock of a country has the effect of raising the prices—this he could not too often impress upon the House. It would ROL be denied by those even most favourable to taxa tion, that the people are injured in proportion to the amount raised k but it was equally undeniable that another effect was produced in this way: the person who first pays the tax must either increase his capital or diminish his stock, if he wish that the amount of his profits should not be decreased. For example, if a maltster or brewer paid 105.6 d. a bushel for malt, that it was increased to 18s. Bd. per bushel, and af terwards to 28s. or 345. per bushel, it would be found that the capital of such brewer or maltster was thereby reduced. One consequence of this would -be the ex clusion of small capitals. He hardly recollected one instance where it wasin contemplation to reduce a heavy tax, that the great capitalist had not petitioned for its continuance—and he particularly instanced the leather trade. The farmer complained that the tax increased the price of his gear—the small farmer that it excluded him from trade. The great farmer begged that the tax might be continued, in order, no doubt, to prevent competition—(Hear). The effect of taxa tion was, if possible, more objectionable, by its ten dency to increase price and lessen competition. The seller of the article adds enough to compensate him self for his advance of capital by an addition to the price of metre than the tax laid on. The tax goes on to increase in such a ratio that by the time it reaches the consumer the tax paid to Government is lost in comparison with the increase laid on by the interme diate hands through which the article taxed has past. The House was aware of the enormous expenditure, and of the enormous sums to defray it, which were levied on the people ; but if the House could conceive, how much more was taken fr 0.41 the people than went into the coffers of Government, it would not be con sidered surprising that the people should be. discon tented, Suppose a Gentleman in 1790, when the taxes were 16 millions, could live comfortably on ten thousand a year, paying his proportion of the 18 mil lions of taxes, how much less must not his fortune be now, when the tubs are sixty millions ? But he persons would be deprived of employment, but the manufacturers, insoead of that, lowered the price of labour. The distress that would naturally follow may be easily ci.nceived. Although it was not his inten tion to go through the history of the country specifi cally for the last twenty years, yet he felt it.oeces sary to make allusions to the state of trade, the taxes. and the currency, for that period. He held it to be perfectly impossible - - thar i nation could persist with impunity in the course Weds we have been follow ing for so many years. He should take only three of those pears for the purposes of illustration, those 1818; 1814, and 1815. The expenses of those three years averaged - £132,000;000 per ann um—(Near)— including, of course, the expenses of managing and colletting.the Revenue, which amounted to between four and five millions. He included those charges for a•very obvious reason—the view of the Revenue would be incomplete without it. If to these 132 mil lions were added the- Poor and County Rates, which averaged eight or nine millions per annum, the gross sum paid in those years would be found to average upwards of-£140,000,000 per annum for each of these three years—(,Hear, hear).—He would not use a harsh word which suggested itself to him, and would merely say that the enormous, he would say, almost incredible sum of £420,000,000 was taken from the pockets of the people within the short space of three years. In the year 1814, the sum paid was £loooo,Boo—(Hear). —The expense of each year, exclusive of the Interest of the debt, was 83 millions. The Revenue was 84 millions. Se that at the ter mination of that prosperous year we had one million of Revenue applicable to the payment of upwards of sixty millions—(Hear, hear).—lf a man in private life were similarly circumstanced with the nation—if with an income of £5,000 per annum, he spent £lO,OOO per annum, and that he was obliged to bor row almost every fa rthing to pay the interest of his debt, by what word should he describe that man's state ?—(Hear, hear.)—What name should he apply .to the man himself? Whatever that word was, some thing of the same kind was applicable to this coun try, and to the state of the funds. Having seen 4.00 millions spent in three years, 250 millions of which were independent of the taxes levied on the people— he would ask, which was that, a wasteful or a pru dent expenditure?—(Hear, hear)—He should now make some reference to the Finance Committee of 1815. The House would bear in mind in what man ner that Committee had been formed ; the Gentle men composing it wire, in fact, the nominees of the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (the Chancellor of the Exchequer): any reflections coming from such a source would, of course,_ be entitled to attention. He would not trouble the House with many extracts, but that which he was about to read was, in his mind, very impotent. The Hon. Gentleman here read an extract from the Report of the Committee of Finance, which complained that buildings and repairs had been entered upon inconsiderately, and without a proper degree of attentiouto the expense. It com plained that there was no cileck—qo protection against profusion—but that' the expenses were adapted. to the views of thoe.disinterested persons who presided over the works (A laugh). He begged particular attention to that Report, because it con tained snore matter worthy of remark than if a man was tospeak for thirty years, and with the voice of an angel. Even in the Ordnance Office itself, the Committee could find no documents to enable them to fosp a just and comprehensive view of the ex pense—(Hear)--and in that irregular general way upwards of nine millions had been spent. The works proceeded upon a wrong principle, indeed none such ought ever to have been attempted. The plans were objectionable, but the molt* was infinitely worse. Hadia Committee of that House investigated those exonses, which men of common honesty must have Acne, those millions of the people's money would not have been so uselessly squandered. The sums taken from the pockets of the people in those three years amounted to £274,000,000, including the parish and county ratat.—(lkar, hear). When Mr. Pitt first in troduced the Sinking Fund, the whole debt of the cuuuuy was 1:230,00QA00; so that in those three • - r - - on iron. No lull quiet times followed the s o . icemen of this measure, as was the case wis e . agriculturist was to be taxed; it was no lon e , poor sheep led up to be shorn: the Mene m " q f House were besieged ; his Noble and ltighe me t . _ near him were besieged and everpe weard the remonstrances of the mane facturen, drea d from the iron country, less malleable than the ol eo / between the tacos lit both periods being as four to one‘ their . native soil. A war was bept up, wi t h an ar. All the expenses of viticulture were increased, also, dour and perseverance that nothing could mi l e, (u s in a fottefeildproportiOn. It was much more natural Hon. and Noble Friends who bore the brunt c e... the 'to inquire how taxes had been raised, than how they ution—who abided had been made wail so heavy on-the people: The —" The peidne of this pkiless storm; They rented, adopted by tome landlords, of voluntarily , on whose heads came down This ken sleet of strawy shower"— reducing their rents,although arising, no doubt, from Ywofastheinssilstheedn.. T h e c . ould bear testimony to the unabated fire men. a most amiable enotive t he could not help feeling wai ,may come. a verrireadetrate remedy. The . farmer complains ingenuity, was, t h at e t t o cie uut nc that he is selling his produce at 20s. per quarter less 4 wa ant man then say, that the pressure on the farm er itd it he can raise it fort and, taking the average price the manufacturer was the same? Would a il of land, he complains of a fall of 30s. per acre— attempt to state, that the agricultural iiiteres t left V , (Novi). 'What relief, therefore, could a reduction of 'erg of the Government? Let the House conside e - es . 20 br SO per cent. on his rent bato the farmer, the not in an infinitely worse I mam by th e partial deal. . whole rent not being 90s. per acre ?--( Heger, hear)— . addition to this, the increase of the poor -rates 1: I% • in • ): roar had millions, which was amount 1792, tbe r His (Mr. Brougham's) objection to that was, that, al. gone on until thee bad reached in the trig • Qat though ruinous to the landlord, it was useless to the tenant —( Hear). If the reduction enabled t b efarmev '!" . year to eight millions; and now they rested, he be, to cultivate land ar3os. per acre less than he does at present, then indeed he would be relieved; but that . somew h ere . Ti ere d , about six th en t. that the only means in their power of rel ic on g being impossible, the reduction of a proportion of the rent could be of little or no service to him—(Hear),, the distress of (he-agricultural interest, was by a di_ t a. nintltio . n of the a mount of taxes—(Hear, hear). That the diminution o f the total amount of the burdens ; The mode of relief contemplated by raising the price of produce, was still more objectionable—(Hear).— that the taking off of some paltry-sum—such as one Everything had been done to ensure to the farmer a .o ; b ut milli "that and a half, or two millions.... .at some such reduction mus t duction—(Hear). The Report of the Board of Agri fair remunerating price, and beyond that the House million, d not a , or a could not go, until it had reduced the price of pro- would take place that would make it possible for the farm er culture stated that between the years 1792 and 1813, to live as yell as thenther ckisses in the country, h a d the cost of raising produce had increased one-half, now become absolutely and indispensably nece ssary . and that, in 1813, it was double what it had been in He had sbewn; that under the name of paying le ss i n 1792. He found that what cost taxes, the countrybad actually paid more than it d d before the war. He had shewn that the burdens of In 1792 ate ' the country amounted to' nearly one million more Was in 1603 - - -118 s. And in 1815 - - - -160 s. than they had in the most extravagant year. The And yet between the year 1813 and the present time, Honourable Gentleman contended, he had s h own t notwithstanding the depreciation of the price of pro- that more was paid at the present time in ta xes , t h an even lit the year 1804, when the money wa ta k en duce, no dimieution in that of labour had taken out of the people's pockets without scruple, and place —( Hear, hear).—lt would be seen, that the yielded upon the salemn pledge of the Goveriment„ expenses of cultivation were increased to he fanner that with rani of peace would come reduction o f half as much as they stere in 1792. He believed taxes. Rut ncon peace was,eome; hot not with healing that the increase might rather be stated at two-thirds. in its wings . There W 4 no reduction—for he could The pressure of the taxes, whatever it - might be on only consider , s aif diet :had been done in reduction every other class in the State, would be found to fall amounted m erely - to tvbat was necessary to be heaviest upon the agricultural interest. The farmer in orifet•to Meet the change effected by the re had less the power than any other man to accom- .ducedt adjostuteni &At_ enrrencY. • Here he should state, modate his supply to the demand; he was affected by the operation of the seasons and accidents of the ele- that heentertained great difference of opinion wi t h many of his* friends on the subject of the operatio ns ments in a greater degree than any other man. A tax Of the restored tuirefity. -- He had not been a Membe r on a falling market was injurious to the grower, as of the Secret Committee who drew up the recommen he could not shift it to the consumer. The manoiac dation finally acted upon, not because he was unwilling turer was better off. Low prices, it was said, always corrected themselves in the increased consumption, to undertake a part of the duties of inquiring into the subject, but, as it happened, because he v. as thought and so they would but for the taxes. The increase unworthy by his Majesty's Ministers. He felt infinitely of consumption, with a low price, would be equal to honoured by the rejection of him on that occasion by a less consumption with a larger price ; but when the Ministers, because the like rejection was made in the tax-gatherer came the price increased, but on a dif case of one of thegreatest ornaments of that House.— ferent principle indeed from that which would benefit He (Mr. Brougham) was prevented by this exclu s io n the farmer. By adverting to the price of malt, they in the first place, and afterwards by illness, from pre. would see that it was reduced in price one-fourth in testing against that unfortunate measure. It wa: l.c the course of the last twenty years. The consequence from his intention to blame those who had a hand in would be, that if there were no Chancellors of the , that plan which was finally carried into execution. indemnify the consumption would increase so as to the farmer for the reduction. But there —All his reproaches were pointed againt the fad were, unfortunately, Chancellors of the Exchequer; policy of 1797, which fist distorted the face of pub ,add it would be seen, that in consequence of the im- lic affairs by overturning the system of our currency, provident imposition of taxes, the article of malt, and entailed that long succession of evil; on e:e which, according to all principles, ought to increase country, against which it was impossiele to proviL:n in consumption as it diminished in price, did actually any remedy that was not an evil in itself. Ti:at N‘ as decrease in consumption. In the first three years of the not the time for him to disclose all the views i'.e er.- war, the quantity of malt which paid Excise —or, in tertained upon the question ; but this he could not other words, the quantity of malt consumed, was, refrain from stating, that sufficient attention had not on the average, 5,500,000 quarters. In 1818, 1819, been paid by the Committee, either in their exarni -1840, it came down to 2,900,000 quarters, being a nation of evidence, or in the policy of the measure reduction of nearly one-seventh. This fact was enough which they produced, to the enormous debt of ti:e without any comment. Instead of decreasing, the country—(lieer).—lle should consider it a great mis consumption should have increased within the time, fortune that they had nbt been more comprehensive because it would be found that the population of this n their views ; that instead of 'leaning but :o on.: country 'increased from 11,954,000, in 1811, to aspect of the great question, they had given their 14,069,000: and from ten millions, which it was in attention to all the weighty considerations which 1801, to fourteen millions ; thus shewing an increase arose out of the question. He would repeat, then, in twenty years of four millions of persons. The popu- that relief—saving relief, must be immediate, and lation then increased, and the consumption diminish- that that relief must come out of the reduction of ing, who was there that did pretend to say t h at t h e the taxes. He believed that there was not one man farmer was not placed in a worse condition by the on the bench opposite—that there was not one man pressure of a particular tax than any other man ? In in or out of that House, who did not feel in the but illustration of the position that there was a greater torn of his soul that relief could behad by no other pressure on the farmer, he would allude to the tax measure except by a diminution of the public burdens on beer. The duty paid on malt, hops, and beer, —(Hear, hear).—Still, after all the arcs of economy amounted to £8,000,000. He begged to ask, where had been exhausted, after retrenchment had been car was the instance of having so much raised by any reed to its utmost extent, still, in his opinion, the pres trade, as was raised out of one of those staple com. sure on the country would be very considerable.— modities? But it would be seen, that taxes on But then the country, after such reduction, would be all articles of general consumption fell more inju- more able to endure their burdens. Why, it woeld riously on the agricultural class. The duty on soap, be asked, was not the country able to bear low prices, salt, leather, &c. went directly to raise the price of as in 1792? So it would, if there were no taxes. Bit labour on the farmer. It was not true, besides, that it would have been a consideration for the Committee, these taxes affected the farmer merely as they affected inlBl9,what the situation of the agriCultuial man teas. other classes. The article of salt, for instance, was They should have recollected that not only would lie consumed, it was well known, in very large quan- have to contribute, by the restoration of the currency, cities by the farmer. Indeed, he had it from good a larger real amount, but also that the same thing mast authority, that in Cheshire, and the adjoining places, take place in every case of debt between individuals. so great was the use of salt amongst the agricultu. They should have remembered that the depreciation rests, that the consequence of the tax on salt was a re- of the currency encouraged speculations amongst the duction of rents by five per cent. But he would refer farming interest, as well as amongst other cht-a:,, as to every man's experience who heard him, if he did the Gazette would inform them from time to fret: — not consider the tax on salt a tax on economy ? that men were induced to embark on those specnla. Again, let it be considered that. the elanufacturer tions who never dreamt of such things. This state had resources which were out of the reach of the of things had a result on the farming interest espe farmer. Thus, for instance, against the increase of cially, which it was for the Committee of 1819 io the price of labour, he had a resource in machinery ; take into consideration. It was triumphantly sa:J, in the improving—in the extending of it. But the that the farmer had his day of prosperity. He stated farmer could not do that. A remarkable instance of before the advantages of the manufacturer over the the difference of the situations of the farmer and ma- farmer, with respect to their share of public bur aufacturer was afforded in a recent instance. The dens. The monied man laid out his capital to the farmer, it was well known, was obliged to use cattle greatest advantage; he indulged in speculations , and in the cultivation of the soil.' But very soon the Chan- he believed it would not be denied that great i n efit cellor of the Exchequer found out a tray of raising a I was the result. Would it be said that the man w!:0 revenue from that. Now let the House look at the ; lent 150 or £56 to Government, and was entitled to difference of the same tax being imposed on the dif.; £lOO, was not served during the war ? It even lie ferent classes. Iron was the manufacturer's catt l e — I had been paid only the nominal amount at this me it was employed by him as a substitute for labour,iment (the interest of course, out of the question), he Fortunately, steam was too subtle and dangerous an 1 would, by virtue of the restoration of the currency, article to be meddled with, or the Chancellor of the be a gainer by '25 per cent. Let it not be said that .Exchequer would ' ; have bound it down in trammel s • all was gain on the side of the fanner. Every chill. long a go—but bein g too su b t l e and unyieldinga thing Ihe dealt in rose in price—his rent mse—the price in for h is grasp, the Itiviltt Hon. Gentleman chose to lay I commodities rose ; and lie bad to pay an Income T.tx, his baud on the machine itself; so he actually props:m.4 g which wen to the levee an as( valorem duty von tits t• . • heady alluded to,,fitinwtaiplat a uswelto . would eontenc4 the inslividnal in *tan en ato pay off the sake Mat at thscredad r soirr much miiNe by - his P"Pnttlika none inter of which threffteari expenditure artivi laid all ithitlirticles 6f eonsimpit the nivil the whole expenseX'of the •auntry. Peace *,tn the mann p &sifted. .It was tidied the poo: rithout ICS usual attendant, After the ter- irk*, :therefor% to meth,* no part of the distress lb that Ho nof the war. it Was natural to expect that the sehersily felt was attributable to the taxes.gfear). Friends of the peo ple should be lightened. In the He paid now much mamas a consumer, and received with the 06.the_Whole expense* of the country were Much less as a landlord, than in 1792: the difference from thi _ &wawa.. the ea a.m. ea lanais fterloaa liabirter ea feint. to Oft& their nx ~s t