Star. — London, England, 1817-03-19 00:00:00

was Ike laugnage of General Bonaparte. He (E ar l Bathurst) did not object to his rejecting this or the proposal to build a new one; but what' hr e( mplained 01 was, that he should in the first in stance reject all overtures to have his residence•made wore comfortable, and then in the next place inveighi a gainst its smallness, and the privations which *the' aat of :u Mot et r.:cn imposed —(f/ear, hear.) He came to the observations of the Noble Lord on ;:te subject of General Bonaparte's place of residence as being decided on at the Congress of Vienna. This was really one of those rumour, from foreigners to ankh the Wale L. :al appeared to lead too ready an eir Lord HOLLAND--'a I have not received this in f rmation from foreigners alone." I:4:1 BATHURS'f —Well, it was a matter of in diif-rence from what source the information came; !:e had no hesitation in saying, that no such point I , ..1 been ever decided upon in Congress, and that the rumour was altoget h er unfounded —(llear, hear.) — The Noble Earl next proceeded to touch upon the espeditore necessary for the maintenance of General Il. , nparte and his suite. The first sum assigned for this e.driblishment was dill,UtA, best it subsequently sipparing that a larger sum might possibly be re quire& r.e instructunts to Sir Hudson Lowe were, r u t .d;,r making the calculation at a Lair rate. it ,flonaraite shook, require a larger allowance. he sh.,ul.l b.: informed that the funds must be supplied t i ,. r , 1 1:. wen parse.. The rst,blishment of Sir Hud its entire expenditure, cost blot ‘12,000 How then could General Bonaparte require 4:,0,(;00? Stately he ought to be satisfied as a maxi rota with Or found sufficient for the Governor's who is constantly exposed to expenses ebich the other cannot be called upon to meet ; and Jet there w i, no reason to suppose that he would be seiefied with an equal allowance with the Governor. I; AVIS till • that Bonaparte agreed to provide for his r:;; expe-dirure ; but upon what conditions ? That hN sh Held have permission to correspond under his own seal (which was not to he broken) with some biuker, either of England or the Continent, and that the money he should receive from such sources should b 2 entirely and absolutely at his own disposal— and so confident was he of the nature and extznt of his resources in Europe, that be frffered to draw a bill of exchange at once. and required Sir Hudson Lowe to make an advailce on the faith of its being instantly nep,ociated. He mentioned this circum stance relative to the funds of General Bonaparte, not with a view of maintaining, that, because he *add command them, the British Government had a right to I,:e that he paid the whole expense of his establishment. No such:thing ; but that he had a :Wit to provide from his private funds whatever su perfluities he conceived his situation required, beyond t re ample allowance which the Governor found suf ficient for his O'bn establishment in the island—if be wants mule, let him provide it foi himself. (Her, tar.) There was one other point which he should notice, u it related to a statement is a publication formerly mentioned by him—that one bottle of wine a day only. was allowed for each person, and that if this allowance was drank by any of the individuals on the establishment—he could get no more. In or der to ascertain the expenditure of any establishment, 3: was usual to calculate on a certain quantity of such things as were used for each individual, per day. It tray by no means intended, that the sense quantity ctoold Away, be drank by each individual. With respect to the calculation of one bottle per day, for each person, it was one which would be considered ra this country as not an unfair one—this was the al lowance for his Majesty's table. A bottle a day, for each person, was considered by Military Gentlemen as sufficient for the supply of their niesses—sufficient far themselves, and for such company as might be invited—it was not usual to allow more one day with another to any Person in the prime of life.— But to chew how liberally the allowance to General' Bonaparte WAS calculated, he should read to their Lordsli ps an extract from the estithate for his table, in which this very article of wine was minutely spe cified. There was an allowance of strong and of weak wine. The quantity of weak wine was S-1, bottles in the course of the fortnight ; but he should put that out of the question, and merely state the quantity of the other description of wine. Of that better sort of wine, there was no less than 266 bot tles in one fortnight, applicable, wholly and entirely, to General Bonaparte and his attendants. The pant. cedars were -7 Bottles of Constantia (or 14 pint bottles.) 14 Bottles of Champaign. 21 Bottles of tiu de Grave. Uettle* .if Teueriffe. 140 Bottles of Caret. In all 466 Bottles. The number of persons connected with General Bo naparte, excluding those of tender age, amounted to nine, so that there was an allowance of nineteen bot tles in one day for ten persons; and taking one day with another, the allowance might be considered two Lotting a day for each grown person. In addition t this quantity of wine, 42 b e etles of porter were al lowed every fortnight, being at the rate of three to ouch individual. Having stated so much he trusted he had copvinced their Lordships that there was not a'.7 ground whatever for apprehending that they were acting towards General l3onapaste with an, t'•; :g like severity. Those persons who were placed under his coniroul had behaved in the most insolent manner towards the Governor; and if their Lordships were willing to lend an err to every complaint pro ceeding from them, there would be no end to their tompinuting. WA respect to the Governor, he could hot support his authority unless he endeavoured to enforce obedience to all the dispositions which be Nras by his instructions appointed to make. If they thought that Bon a pa rte oug h t no t t o be d e t a i n ed a t Helena, then dismiss him ; but if they thought that he ought to be detained, it would be unjust to throw such a heavy responsibility on the Governor, tend at the same time prevent him from enforcing such measures as the secure detention of his prisoner 1 demanded !rem him. The Noble Earl concloded by expressing his decided opposition to the motion. [he Marquis of BUCKINGHAM concurred its opinion with the Noble Lull, that this motion ought tu be rejected. The motives 'of his Noble Friend (Lord H , IlAnd) who made it, were pure and disin ?et ested, though it was to be Lamented that, embark irg in the course he had this night pursued, he might !;Pose himself elsewhere to imputations from which I=ts generous pause was utile:ly rand completely face. The question involved in this debate, real)) , resolved itself into this :—Had we, or had we not, a right to detain Bonaparte in custody ? If we had not, as the Noble Earl well said, let it be fairly avowed ; but if, on the contrary, the necessity of hls detention was manifest, could any one who heard what had been said this night, say that the restraints imposed upon him were more than necessary far his salty? (Near.) The Noble Marquis here referred to the letter ut Count Montholon, containing the cumplaints of 80. naparte..These complaints had be :11 completely and triumphantly refuted. by the No de Earl opposite. Would they then believe the contradiction of the No ble Secretary of State, in his place in Parliament, and on his own responsibility ? or would they credit the statement of Bonaparte? Could they possibly con ceive that the Noble Earl would, in his clue in Par liament, assert a deliberate falsehood Ha was satis fied that the complaints were unfounded. The whole of Count Montholon's paper was a tissue of insult upon this country—(iseer, hear, hear.) Bonaparte denied that be had surrendered himself a prisoner to this country—(Hear, hear.) Was that the fact ? He said that he might haVe put himself at the head of the army of the Loire, and made better terms for himself—why did he not ?—(liear, hear.) He says he might have surrendered to Austria, or Russia, or Prussia—why did he not ? Perhaps the recollection of the devastations he committed in Russia, and other parts of these territories, deterred him from making the experiment—(Hear, hear.) He beamed of hav ing shewn his clemency to these States when tie had invaded them, and replaced their Sovereigns on their thrones when he might have overturned their dynas ties. This was all vain boasting ; for had not these Powers conceded to his canfederacy against Eng land, there can be no doubt that he would have fully establiated himstlf in their States with the while force of his arms (Hear, hear, hear.)—' It was imp issible not to see the necessity, now that Bonaparte was in safe custody, of detaining him in effectual captivity, so as to prevent the possibility of his ever.again becoming the scourge of Europe.-- Political justice required that he should be detained in close custody, and no measure should be thwarted that had that object fairly in its view—(llear, hear). The Noble Marquis concluded by expressing his strong dissent from the motion, although he did full justice to the motives of his Noble Friend from whom it originated, and to Whom they were certainly in debted for the able and complete refutation, by the Noble Earl opposite, of the charges made by Bona parte—(Hear, hear). The Earl of DARNLEY had not intended to say a word in the course of the debate. He could not, however, retrain from saying, that his N'ale Friend (Lord Holland) was justified in making the motion, though the candid and able statement of the Noble Earl opposite had refuted the allepations on which the motion was doubtless founded. Thanks were due to his Noble Friend for being the person through whose means an effectual contradiction was given to the serious charges made by Bonaparte. After the statement of the noble Secretary, perhaps his Noble Friend would content himself with the good he had done, and withdraw his motion—(Hear, hear). Lord HOLLAND defended the grounds on which he had made his motion in behalf of the hoi.our and character of the country, which were deeply impli cated in the statement of Bonaparte. He thanked his Noble Friends for their testimony to the purity of his motives, but he could not accept their thanks for having led to the production of the Noble .Earl's speech opposite—differing as he totally did with the sentiments contained in that speech. From the roan. ner in which the motion had been treated, he telt him- self bound to declare, that he was impelled to make it by a conscientious sense of duty, and thi.ugh hr was aware it would be rejected by their Lordships, he was yet proudly sensible of the benefit that he had conferred upon his country by starting the debate, it the result should prove a confutation of the statements already made, or a correction of the practices, if any such existed, of which these statements complained. At any rate, he was satisfied of this, that there was' not one man in England who could hear such charges of cruelty against his Government without calling upon it for a full contradiction of the allegations.— The Noble Earl had commenced by stating, that those persons who, in the first instance, had objection to the detention of Bonaparte, were not -very unpre judiced judges of the mode of carrying that detention into effect. Then it seemed that the only persons who were unprejudiced judges of the mode of treat ment to be adopted towards Bonaparte, were those who declared for the measure of his imprisonment. He had season to complain of the way in which his motion had beets treated by the Noble Earl. His motion was for the production of papers that would contradict the statement that had gone abroad.— This course was resisted by the Noble Earl, who, though be refused to produce the papers called for, yet quoted partial, and, possibly, garbled extracts from them, to shew that the charges were unfound ed. The case was this :—one Peer called in his place in Parliament for certain papers, and another read extracts from them against their production.-- This course had crept into practice within the last eight years, and could not be too much censured.— The Noble Earl was a great master of wit and ridicule, and he congratulated him upon the tier exercise of this talent towards the individual who was wholly in his power,, in distant captivity, and who had no opportunity of being heard in his defence.— Sooner than be gtfilty of such an act, lie would pre fer the odium of prevarication and mistatement, with which Bonaparte was charged, even by the Noble Earl opposite, whose whole argument went for the production of the papers which his vote refused. He (Lord Holland) never stated that the reports were true ; on the contrary, he had stated that he knew no thing of the documoent alluded to, except having merely read it, and finding it in many part; confir matory of the rumours be had already heard. It this docuMent were untrue, then why not contradict it in the face of the world by positive documents, rather than let the refutation -solely depend on the Noble Earl's speech, able as it' certainly was ? It was not fair, either to Parliament or the country, to leave so important a refutation dependant on the fleeting breath of the Noble Earl's speech. On the subject of the Noble Earl's denial, that arrangements for Bo naparte's removal were made at Congress before Bonaparte's return to France, all he had to say was, that he 'had himself heard the intention of this removal mentioned before the battle of Watcrloci, and copse qttently betot.e the last tattchict of gotiaperte brought down upon him the vengeance of .the other Powers. Could any man believe that Bonaparte set such a rumour aeon merely from a wisb to suggest it to Congress, or that lie mentioned it after having had reason to suppose that such an arrangement was iv contemplation ? The motion he had made called for no opinion whatever nn the part of their Lordships.' it merely related to the production of these papers, to answer an assertion deeply affecting the honour and character of the country. His obj:xt was not for the information of the Honst alone, but for the satisfac • tion of Europe and posterity ; and would not this object be more effl.ctually attained by the production of authentic: do:nrtrrots, than it cool l be by any speech, however sarcastic or eloquent? By rejecting the motion, tie appearance to the world would be that they were unwilling to inquire into the facts, or that they deemed them of too trivial a nature to call for Parliamentary investigation. To either of these conclusions they must expose themselves to the world. He thought the subject every w a y of great impor tante, and one which required to be met by a different course of proceeding from that they seemed to adopt. The Noble Lord here very pointedly animadverted upon the description given by the Noble Earl of what he termed the " horrible".situation vi whoever had the custody of Bonaparte, and the insolence to which a person so situated was exposed. If the papers for which he moved were produced, then "it wool. , ap pear whether this :hiracter of the prisoner was a true one or not. At atl events, whatever were the vices of Bonaparte, he thought there was little of taste or , feeliag in selecting specimens of his language or acts, from those partial ebullitions of his temper, which were possibly induced by the treatment to which he was exposed. The Noble Earl. concluded by declar ing he would persevere in his Motion; and that solar from the Noble Earl's speech being an answer to it, it furnished rather reason for his pressing it. The question was then put, and negatived without a division..--The House then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. . . . .* A Person from the Cold Bath Fields Prison pro...tented an Ac count of the number of persons committed to that Prisms under the 39th and 40th of the King. An Account of the net produce of all the permanent Taxes for the last two years, and the amount of the Consolidated Food, and of the expenses of the same, for the above perto 1, were laid on the table. General Ti lORNTON withdrew his novice (which stool fcir Friday) respecting absentees, on account of the difficulty which would arise in making the returns._ Sir U. BRYDGES gave not;ee, that he should, on Tuesday, the 2St h Instant, 11170V4 for a Bill to alter and amend the Copy iglu Act. Loinnel LONGFIELD presented a Petition from the Parish of et. Peter's, in Cork, praying for a repeal the Window rat. it was laxt on the table• Mr. CURWEN pi - eve:Heil a Petition from the Vicar, Church wardens, ai:d others, of Wellington, In Shropshire, stating, that !tit 0 pers..= were wholly tupporttd by the Parish out of the Poor•ratrs, to which oily Si a of the inlisb rants coutributed, and praying !me relief tu the Law, attesting the Poor. It was ►aid on the table. Mr. HUSKISSON moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend an Act, entttkd, " An Act for enerea.ing the Lend Revenues of .he Crown," and to enlarge t►e powers given under .he same.— Leave was given. Sir J. Ni.W PORT presented a Petition from Belfast, praying fur Reform, Re!reneloatent, &c. It was laid o i the table. Lord BINNING gave notice, that he should to-morrow move for a Bill to ptuvid,l Holdings in Scutlaud for the reception of Lunatics. Mr. 11ENNET presented a Petition from Evans, a prisoner in the county jail of Worcester, stating that, in N wembis, he was aer sea witu a.citstion of a Praetor, et the name of Jackson, 'o appear before the Cohsistorlal Court to answer a chary. of slan der. In obedience to which he waited upon the Proctor, and stated that he was r eady to pruve the assertiotkhe had made, but was told that alt tte w s waisted to do was to pay the expenses. Nut doing this he was charged la cm.tomacy, as for not appear ing, and was oaken to prison, whrre he was expected to remain until he paid fourtsen pounds fur Pructur's fees. *rhe peti: ion was ordered to lie on tl.e NhW WELCII JUDGE. Mr. CALCRAFT moved for a new writ for Brid port. in the room of Mr. Serjeant Liest, who since his election has accepted the office of one of the Judges for Wales. Sir S. ROMILLY observed, that the situation was one which was equally important with that . of an English Judge, and he was astonished they should sit in Parliament. It was not in the gift of the Lord Chancellor, but in the appointment .et the First Lord of the Treasury, and of course the influence of Mr. nisters there must be apparent. He really thought that the House should take into its consideration whether the two offices of Welch Judge and a Mem ber of Parliament were not incompatible with each other ? He had always been friendly to Parliamen tary Reform, and he was of opinion that situations like the one alluded to ought to be rendered indepcn. dent of the ii , fluence of the Clown. Mr. ABEKCROMIE submitted, that the practice of inaciag Welch Judges of persons holding situa. Lions like the Attorney General was very adverse to the principles of the Constitution ; and he had for merly stated, that he feared the time would artive when such objections might be started to appo.,it• ments of this description. The time had in tact arri ved, 11 persons bad been commit:ed for trial for offences within the County Palatine of Chester, and the prosecutor for the Crown would in fact have the right of trying as Chief Justice of Chester; not that he supposed the Chief Justice would try them, bu , the-priaciple of the objection was still the same. ' The ATTORNEY-GENERAL was happy thift the subject had been brought before the Hot,, r ; and he could assure the Honourable Gentle:man, that in' no case where he was called upon to advise tur the prosecution, had he presided as Judge: nor, indeed,' would it be believed that he could for a morn nt think of acting as prosecutor and Judge too. There had been last year a trial for conspiracy, in which he sat as Judge; but the prosecution on that occasion was conduc:ed by the Solicitor-General, and lie had not heard a woad of the case till it came before him on the Bench. Indeed, he would sooner resign his si tuation than be supposed capable of acting in any case in both characters. PONSONBY observed, that his Honourable Friend had proved, beyond all possibility of doubt, that the two offices of Chief Justice of Chest r and Attorney-General were incompatible with each other; tor.the Honourable and Learned Gentleman h:msc lt had she% nit was so. In principle it was xtremely wrong, and contr.ry to the Constitution, that any person exercising judicial functions should he allow( d so long to sit in that House. It no other G , :o . tletuan would move to disable them in suture, he F.,houki mink it his duty. to briny the subject betv;i. the. House. the writ viat Leta ordered. -.., kr. BI.OtIGHAM inqulreci by whom arteri ton tain Proclamations were issued respecting the MIMI' of Montevideo by the Spanish tb the' POrtUguese Go. verhment. He was informed that this place had been originally given up by Portugal to the Spanish Go vernment by a secret treaty, and subsequently re stored. He understood that Lord Serebford had handed over 10,000 Portuguese troops to the Com .tiauder, fuily disciplined, and they were stow actu ally under the walls of Montevideo. The CHANCELLOR of theEXCHEQUER. begged to re!er the Hun. Gentleman to his Noble Friend, who had just lett the House, for an answer to his question. Mr. BROUGHAM then gate notice for to-mor row of a motion for Papers on the subject. The Hon. Gentleman then moved an Address for Copies of all Papers and Proclamations issued by the Governor of 'llinutid, reipecting the intercuarse with &mei America, since J inuar•p I, 1814. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER. repeated his wish that this motion should he deferred till his Noblr? Friend was present. Mr. PONSONBY said, Vi it the lbjert, of all others the nt , sr. interesting, was that of S..oth Ame rica.. He wislitd t , ) know w!letllcr ner Government had interfered with the A et.nricir t Government in re spect to the int,:course Uetwkett the Americans and South AITInIC.I. The CHANCELLOR of die EXCHEQUER again wished t iei the question should be deferred. Sir M. W. RIDLEY defended the character of the Governor ; and, after some further observations, the Address was carried. LOTTEIt I F.S. Mr. LYTTELTON rose, in pursuance of his no.. tice, to call the attention of the House to the (hinge roils, immoral, and fraudulent mode of raising money upon the people by way of Lotteries. It was neces= sary, no doubt, that money should be raised to sup. port the expenses of the State; but the utmost jea lonsy shoeld be entertained by the people, and parti. cularly by those who represented them in that House, that no taxes should be imposed that could be avoi& ed—(hear) r and more especially, that no mode of taxation should be adopted which would lead to the destruction of the morals of the community—(Hear, hear). Amongst the different expedients that were resorted to for raising money, it was said, that the Lottery was the only one to which the people char - fully assented, because it was a voluntary, and not a compulsory tax : but what had the two Committees, who were appointed at different periods to inquire into the consegnences of this species of taxation, reported to the House? They had stated, that this ' system was radically vicious ; that it was as im. provident as it was immoral; and, in the last place, that the manner of raising the money was, on all accounts, objectionable--( Year, Hear, hear). He held in his hand a Report, stating the gross amlaunt of the revenue ; and the whole sun, derived from this source, nn an average ct the last five years, did not etccad £550,000. This st:m co.a more in collecting that it brought into the Exchequer. The Scheme of the Lottery now about to be drawn had been published in the I.cnelon Gazette. nits made the sixth Lottery witt in twelve months(Hear, hear.)-zAnd if the it•ght Enn. Gentleman slid ac tually set his sign ,cure to that Scheme, it he had really been guilty of that gross impostere and deception cin the rubtic %%thief,' the Scheme disclosed, he ltdiew net in what Parliamentary terms he vault' sufficiently re. probate his conduct—( Near, hear.) He ousted, how. ever, that the exposure of this traudultnt Scheme would have some effect on the public, if it had none on the virtuous mind of the Right Hon. Gentleman—. (A lauch.)—A total was made out of *2'20,000 is Prizes ; but in fact, taking Consols at 70, the real value would be only rEIOB,OOO. The chance of any great prize was about 71 to 1. Whoever read the first statement which the Contractors published, Would suppose there was an amazing gain to be derived born it : but the public were completely deceived. There were great numbers of very ignorant and illi terate people in the country; who might be induced to part with their money in thiS Scheme ; but as they ::ere not aware that the Contractors published their supplements/ plan in the Gazette, -they were trnable to form any opinion as to the fully and niadnets of riskiug their hard-earned wages in this abominable speculation. The Right Honourable Gentleman had taken some pains in promoting Religious Societies—he had at tended Bible Meetings, and made some eloquent speeches on Religion and Morality—he had professed the most lively interest for the comforts of the poor but what did all this amount to ? What would the House of Commons think ? What could the people think, what could the Right Himourabte Gentleman himself think, of these gambling >pecuiationa ? Did these fraudulent schemes accord wit!: his pure notions of morality e- 1,, them nde of drawing the Lottery, ncthiog'could be more mis. chievons than cr employ boys who belonged to one of our noblest establishments, and aho were thus brought up in the habits of gambling. Tile I.ottery, too, had been sometimes drawn by ttigi,t ; the person; appointed by Government as :iispectint, having pre . viously received an excellent dinner at the expense of the Contraetom.by, which they were reduced to a state very little short of beastly Jrunkennk.— (Hear, hear).—He asked the Right Honourable Gentleman hoe he could reconcile it to his conscience 'as a Chr;stian, and a Chancelhr of the Exchequer, to rail... , money in such a Manner ?—(Hear, As to the argument used, :hat from the very high price rata sixteenth, it was out of the reach Of a poor man's purse ; it was clear that a poor man might scrare up sufficient, and the desire of doing this, and making tip a given star, often led to pilfering and theft. But it the argument that the poor min, irdm his eircin.taaces cou ld ldin a not time pur of such chaseat d stress ickt, t‘'ez worthh re t p a s i e l n y t t , li si:egre w emissaries for the sale ta tickets, and enticements of every description, :read all over the country ? The effect of such measures was, in the end, to bring many to the parish wins woillA otherwise have supported themselves; and thus to in. crease the burdens of the country in the shape of poor: rates. The Lori Mayor, a most active and discerning magistrate, had informed 'tint (Mr. Lyt , tleton) that the evil aas iticie• sing. His • authority could not be received other wise than with the greatest attention, especially as the City e" bad**. ;itioned strbygly and tananintoosly against the sys.: wm—(Hear, four.) He was aware that the neceisit y , -1 the mea4 t; e crest or R.:minor,. would be ! "b '""`"•7 WAs el to sup. moat jes- and parti. tat House, be avoid- o mode of rad to the y—(l-tear, that were that the ple chcor and not a int mittees, to inquire taxation, that this is as im. last place, as, on all the gross n, derived ive years, , t more in ter. The Irawn had his made 4 ( flan, tn tJ ac. had really ception tin krtew not ciently re. steJ, how. it Scheme had none ntlentan-.1. 22),000 in 1, the real nce of any r read the , • red, Would re derived deceived. it and illi- re induced rut as they 'shed theit tenable to of risking seculatioa. .iren some he had at- . eloquent I professed the poor would the the people ;entleman Did ire notions the mode more mis. ! - i ed to one were thus ic Lottery, :re pet sons • dying pr e _ expense of nerd to a . (Hear, rentternaa enee 'as a !quer, to hear). very high of a poor lan might ; this, and wing and tin, lrOns cet, were I.stress as • A tickets, t all over I Well, in to would has to in. shape of ctive and Mr. Lyt.. authority greatest had "'pc- the sys- neceisti y would be