Star. — London, England, 1810-03-28 00:00:00

• ing for a speech no longer in his i'mititr tO make. He EA, however, no object but to state briefly the two resolutions which he meant to propose. These, he trusted, would be adopted by the House. They must, if ;hit House wished to save its own character and that of Old England. He spoke from the bottom of his heart. He w ished the Honourable Baronet to hear hi rn —(a laugh, and Hear, hear.) He should repeat his wish that the Honourable Baronet had not been precluded by the forms of the House from hearing what he had to say. He felt no hostility to that honourable Baronet ; he had much higher mo tives for his conduct on this occasion. He was con vinced that if the House had any regard. for its character, it would put a stop to such proceedings as they had witnessed of late. He had heard things stated in that House which had made the hair of his head stand on end—(if laugh.) He could assure the House that the feelings of horror with which he heard it stated, that" in the opinion of the Public the repu tatioh of that House had not a leg to stand upon," had produced that effect upon him. He trusted that such proceedings would be effectually put a stop to, and with that view he should propose the following r esolutions for the adoption of the House : Ist, Resolved, That the Letter 'druid Francis Burdett, and 1 the further argument, which was published in the Paper called Ogees Weekly Register, on the 54th of this instant, is a libellous and scandalous paper, reflecting upon the just rights and privileges of this House. ad, Resolved,That Sir Francis Burdett ' who su ff ered the above art icles to be printed with his name and by his authority, has b e en guilty of a violation of the privileges o this House. Mr. BLACHFORD seconded the motion. The course of proceeding in this casehad been deemed un usual ; t h a t was not the fact, for it was fully justified by precedent, and he instanced; in proof of his asser tion, the precedent of a Mr. Arthur Hall, who so long back as the 4th of February,l.soB, was committed to prison for a similar offence. This evinced the jealousy of their forefathers with respect to their rights and privileges, and he trusted that the House of Commons of 1810 would not be more regardless of their rights and privileges than the House of Commons of 1508. He adjured the House to consider 'the dangers which might arise from allowing such a vehement attack upon their character and dignity to pass unpunished. A spirit had lately been raised in this country by a class of persons, few in number, but active itt dispo sition, which it became the House to quell, if they wished to preserve the estimation in which they had hitherto been held. Mr. PONSONBY had never been inclined to spew a disrespect for the character of the House, but he thought the . subject required the gravest and most de liberate c onsideration, to the end that they might come to a satisfactory conclusion. The Hon. Gentleman had caused a very long paper to be read, in which he had pointed out some objectionable parts. The House must however be aware that to judge from some parts of a long document of the whole paper, without com pring the various passages, was very difficult, more es ecially when it involved a point of law. He hoped the Housewould not suspect him of shrinking from the dis cussion when he proposed an adjournment of that de bate. There was another important - question before the House for which they were all prepared. On that subject he had some claim to their attention. For the subject then before the House, he thought it probable they were not so well prepared. He was nor, for his orn part. He would therefore move, as an.amend runt, that that debate should be adjourned till that day se'nnight The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had no intention to oppose the adjournment of the subject, but he was averse to its beins l adjourned for so long a time. He thought the earliest day that could be named for resuming the debate most desi rable, as far as it respected the House as well as the individual. The Member 'alluded to had. been de sired to withdraw; he did not say how far that cir cumstance interfered with his voting on another question ; but if the law - of the House would permit him to do so, which he thought might be questioned, it was not very consistent with the dignity of Parlia ment that a Member should take part in their pro ceedings who had just violated their privileges. He would, therefore, propose to the Honourable Member opposite, that the debate should be resumed to-mor row (Wednesday), or on Thursday. He thought it due to the character of the House, that the discus sion of a subject so important should not be deferred , longer than was necessary. He hoped the Honour able Gentleman would name to-morrow ; if he would I not, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) would move an amendment to that effect. He concurred with the proposition of adjourning the debate, on the ground of its being necessary to examine carefully a 1 ' 2 17 long paper which had been laid before them.— lie wished it adjourned till to-morrow, that they might have tim e to g i ve i t a p at i ent ex amination, and dial by that ti me t h e y cou ld d o so , n o one could d oubt. He concluded by moving, as an amendment, that the word 44 to-morrow" should be substituted for that day se'nnight. Mr. WHITBREAD was certain his friend had moved an adjournment only because he wished the House not to come to a decision on the question till they knew what the question was. When the ,Right Honourable Gentleman, at a time the most important question was pending concerning himself, he would hot impute to him that he wished to call the attention !the country t o anot h er su bj ect , or t o a bitract the . !the of the House from the Exsedition tb‘ the Scheldt, at a t i me w h en hi s Honourab le Friend, being In possession of the House, as was considered spealc ing : but how cou ld h e say , that by tomo rrow the House could be fully prep ared for the discussioeof Ole subject ? Could they , between the rising of the again House and its meeting (fatigued as in all pro bability they w ould be) be supposed capable - of poste, L esslng them se l ves o f t h e requ i s i te i n f ormat i on . H e ! Jur one wa s certain he could not be prepared for the m'biec' by the time. As the debate on the' Expedi tion to the Scheldt would not in all probability terms= late till Thursda y l morning, he would propose that should the subj ect sho be resumed on Friday. Lord FOLKSTONE had no expectation of an ad •Senrnent being proposed, but he rejoiced at the pro- Position, as it gave them time to investigate the sub lect ; and he would ve . ature to sar, - that the more the t i d o b tb iec_t ws inquire d h. into, the more would, it redound House credit Cd. is Honourable Friend. He implored the 'louse th, Cas a ttentively to cohsider the importance of e. He hoped they would come 'down with feelings very different to those of the' Mover and the Seconder of the Motiar4 *44 Og Infad ;ea:lrd _ - . aka clue* .0 1= Aet illiteat kottor twilit) eue d i i look to tont Oketht ON failures for - ptececlents to the Hono4l l with the fundamental principles of the Constitution some diikerence between the Noble Lord, howev er and the law of th e l an d. Th e G ent lethen opposite, eminent, and the first gi r l o f Ch at h am . S ett i ng \ he hoped, would find they had riot properly consider- these considerations far aside, and looking at the ed the subject. He was for adjourning the debate till state of affairs now, would any man in that House that day se'maight. say—would the Noble Lord say, that England stood s Mr. STEPHEN said, the Noble Lord had fur- now in any thing like the lame relative situation in 4 nished unanswerable argumentsin favour of the amend-s which she formerly bore to France ? Lord ChathattO ment. The importance he. attached to the subject I could send, and risk cur troops abroad then Eng was sufficient to shew the impropriety of admitting land was strong, but France Weak. England was of any delay. If a subject were suffering unlawfully, now weak, while France was strong ;—and the. anxious as he was for the decision on that great ques- Noble Lord had sacrificed the last great force tion which concerned the character of his Right Ho- ' that the country could yield • and for what ? Con- nourable Friend, yet if a man we re un j ust ly impri- ceiving, for arg u m ent sake, that the 1 Expedition soned, he would inquire into the subject immediately, bad reached its first destination on the third of when nothing could be urged against such an inquiry I August, still the enemy's fleet, imagined caption. but that the character of his Right Hon. Friend j able, were then safe at Antwerp. (Hear, hear.) Not would be cleared up a day or two sooner in cons& I till the fourth of August did the Noble Lord (Castle'. quence of it. The question not only related to their 1 reagh) know in what state were the arsenals of Ant privileges, but to the imprisonment of Mr. Gale werp, or how the force of France was disposed of.— Jones, he could therefore in such a case hardly agree Still the enemy's forces continued to gain ground. Ins, to putting it off at all. The Chancellor of the Ex- I formation on this head, undoubted information, from chequer had been harshly accused of wishing to in- ' the 4th to the 19th, was received by the Commander terrupt the discussion of the grand question then pend• in Chief; which information, authenticated by deat ing, that he might gain a few. hours. The accusa- documents, he must proceed to state. It was knovris tion was unjust, and might have been made with the on the 11th of August, from the Noble Lord's own same parity of reason, had such a circumstance oc- spy, that, besides troops at Flushing, the enemy's ctfired at the commencement of the inquiry. The force did not amount to less than 26,000 men. Yet proposed adjournment of the subject till to-morrow ' we were told that there were then no foes to fight was quite enough, and he doubted if it were not too with! All was the same. Out of all our NavaL much. I Officers, only one, a pilot he, could be found to na- The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER I iigate 400 ships into the Sch e ldt. C a d san d was s aid I did not intend troubling the House a t l engt h, t h oug h, -to be without forces, yet was found to be otherwise. as there was a new question, he was not prohibited from The failure of the Expedition lay with the planners so doing. When he was accused of endeavouring to Of it. France had not less than 3.5,000 men on the interpose a day, merely to cause a delay of 24 hours spot; or; if following the lowest estimate of General in the discussion of the merits of the late Expedition, Brownrigg, 30,000 men, which could, and mast, the House would not expect him to remain silent, have frustrated all the objects of the Expedition. and he thought it wasin his power to make a satis- I Such was the policy, such the fatality of the Expedi factory answer without going to any length, as it ; tion to Walcheren ! Nor could he see by what possi was only necessary to ask the House, if he ever took ' ble means our army could come at the enemy in suf any step to interpose one day or one hour to interrupt ; ficient time to prevent even their number from being or delay their inquiries ? If he had wished for one , increased out of all proportion even to our whole day, could the Honourable Gentleman suppose, that , force. To force the boom and proceed to Antwerp had he appealed to the House soliciting such an in- . by the Scheldt was considered by naval and military dulgence, from the situation in which the papers officers as an enterprise of the utmost danger, nay, were that had been laid before the House, was it ; almost impracticable; and behind that boom the fleet supposed: that such an application could have been by ; of the enemy, which the Noble Lord had represented possibility resisted ? He was far from wishing to i as so contemptible, lay-perfectly secure. The only I create any delay ;on the contrary, he was as a nxious alternative left was, of course, to carry the army by for getting through with the business as the Honour- I land to Antwerp, and with it all its artillery,. ammu able Gentleman himself could be. It was unjust to ; nition, baggage, intienching-tools, &c. This cer charge him with causing a d e l a y. W as hethe au- I tainly would have taken a considerable deal of time ; thor of the libel in question ? Did he prevail on the I and after the delays which had occurred at home, Hon. Baronet to publish it on Saturday ? It was :in consulting on these two modes of operation, it absurd to think so. The ground on which he had ninst be owned, that celerity, which had been re proposed an amendment was, that where a paper of j presented as so necessary, formed no feature of importance was laid before them, it was not well to I this Expedition. The Right Honourable Gentle come to a decision on the first reading; but when ' : man next adverted to the dispatches of General the Noble Lord said it was not on the paper but on ' Brownrigg, and to the numerous difficulties he had the law that they were to decide, it became a ques- I stated as preventing the possibility of success. Our tion of such importance, that while it called for their ? army was not sufficiently numerous to invest Ant greatest consideration, it demanded their immediate 1 werp ; and, without that necessary measure of pre attention. It was a question on which the character, caution, it was impossible. to prevent the influx of the independence, and even the existence of that House French troops, which were pouring into that town depended ; and if they consented to postpcne it. one . from all quarters. Indeed froth the nature of the hour unnecessarily they consented to be trampled on, . written opinion of that General Officer, the Right and surrendered their privileges and honour in so do- Honourable Gentleman doubted almost that he was ing. For these reasons he would not. withdraw his the same person who had given evidence at the Bar amendment. He had little doubt of what would be of that House. The Noble Lord had said that the the sense of the House on the subject, it having been Expedition had not been attempted ; that the experi so recently expressed by an almost unanimous vote. silent had not been fairly made. Was the blame then Mr. B. BATHURST, although feeling it desira- to be thrown upon the Generals who thought it ad ble, that on constitutional points no unnecessary pro- visable not to carry the experiment further, and who crastination should teke place, was not averse from gave their reasons in support of that opinion,. in a postponing the further consideration of the question I general Council of War ? The Noble Lord seemed till Friday. I mightily at a loss for some object upon which he Mr. W. WYNNE—(amidst loud cries of question!) I could throw the load that weighed him down.— cited the case of Sir Richard Steele, for the publica- I He had not said much of the weather ; but gene tion of the " Criss, answering to the present accusa- rally asserted that the experiment bad not , been tion, in which, at a serious crisis of things, a delay made. Why, then; did he not accuse the Generals of five, days had been granted. openly and manfully ; for blame must attach some- Mr. MADDOCKS spoke on the same side. where, instead of implying their guilt by vague Strangers being ordered to - withdraw, two divi- insinuations ? Why did not Ministers report their sions took' place. On the first of them, agreeably to conduct to the King ? And why did they advise his the Motion of Mr. Pensonby, that the question should; Majesty to say, in his answer to the Address of the be postponed till Tuesday next, the CHANCEL-' City of London, that. there was no ground for insti- LOR of the EXCHEQUER moved, as an amend- I tuting any inquiry into the conduct of either the ment, that, instead of Tuesday, to-morrow should i Naval or Military Officers ? By this the Noble Lord fix its decision ; when there were for Tuesday next,' has for ever deprived himself of a plea which he might 146—t0-morrow, 196—Majority for to-morrow, 50. I have found useful, if not honourable in his forlorn si- Mr. WHITBREAD having also moved, that in ; tuation. But the Noble Lord had triumphantly de-' place of Tuesday next, Friday should be the day for I manded whether Ministers were not justifiable in ;t -discussing' the question, opposed to the amendment I tempting to create a diversion in favour of Austria, moved by Mr. Perceval, whether the discussion should especially when she had requested assistance in that be now, or on tomorrow, there were for now, 138— manner? Austria had never demanded that we to-morrow, '2ll—majority for to-morrow, 73. should send an immense armament, the only one that ADJOURNED DISCUSSION ON THE EXPEDITION TO the country could spare, to the pestilential marshes I WALCHEREN. s • of Walcheren ; she had requested that a few troops . ' Mr. PONSONBY, rising to the question, sai d, that I might be sent to the North of Germany to create a.. the Noble Lord opposite (Castlereagh) had, last I diversion, protect the rising spirit of the population, night, rested his principal defence o f the late Er- I against the common enemy, and make such demon pedition, on the ground of its affording some mili- I strations as could not fail of being eminently useful at tary diversion in favour of 'Austria. 1 his was one the onset of the war.— CHere the Right Honourable of the ulterior objects of the Expedition ;—but ul- Gentleman read part of the Austrian note printed in terior objects were not to be covered by insinuat-1 the Minutes.]—Such was, he continued, the demand , ing they are secondary . ones. The Noble Lord !of Austria, and the conduct of Ministers could not I said much of Military opinions, of which he did I therefore be defended on that ground, since they not seem to think so much as he said ;—yet, if i had thought proper to act in direct contradiction Ihe considered such opinions of any essential worth, :to her request. After that long series of misma why did he not act upon them ? Five of those opi- nagement and misfortunes, what was the astonishment scions were notoriously unfavourable to the Expedi- I of the Right Honourable Gentleman, at the gay, tion. Perhaps the Noble Lord found advice unfa- ! light, airy manner of the Noble Lord in last night's vourable to his wishes, and therefore resolved not to • ' debate I He rose with a radiance, with a self-com adopt it. General Brownrigg, strange to tell ! could placency, that the consciousness of merit only could not be found at first ; yet, at last, he comes, and give ; he seemed as cheerful as if he hall successfully states, that the Expedition might succeed, provided performed a grand and important service to his coun ;it reached Santvliet by the third of August. Not- try, and was expecting the honourable reward from ;;.seithstanding this military intimation, the British the gratitude of this House. Indeed, he had declared ' forces, instead of reaching Santvliet on that day, did that on the merit of his case he stood firm as on a not set sail before the identical third of August. How rock, from which he could not be shaken. Far dif then could this Expedition, taking the opinion as cor- ferent were the feelings of the Noble Lord from those rect, be said to be engaged in on the recommendation of other men ; for after such an unparalleled misfor of General Brownrigg ? His Lordship was blame- tune—after such a wait" of lives, the most callous able, deeply so, for constructing the Expedition on heart would have felt sone compunctious visitings of common calculations, and with reference to ordinary nature, in addressing the House on that subject ; anticipations. The Noble Lord had cited the Rothe- although, tom the consciousness of having fulfilled Ee l 'ition, under the administration of - st his duty, Ms sorrow might not have been embittered fort _ xpedil ..__ . thegrem _ Lord Chatham , as some defence of the fate of tlu by the pangs of remorse. But here no such a con. 1 Expedition to Walcheren. Did the Noble Lord think solation is offered, and every thing was done not to there fair parallel between himself and that insure the success, but the miscarriage of the Expedi• great was ma nl ny Had he, like him, humbled the power tion. Sir Home Popham had declared, that if it started of France.; so that, considering his high achieve- after Midsummer, it would have to encounter ments, we were actuated by gratitude to overlook his all the fury of contending elements, the ene huh,/ ? Perhaps it suited int talents a nd genius CO tries most to be dreaded; . and yet it did not ac- Ita tiny rain- till a full Month after that perioci:- A gallant and experienced Naval Commander had expressed his prophetic fears on the result cif the, Er- L m o a r n d of him th w e I s fra e n g d a t y o l t i h g e h t disposit ion seriou to pedition. But the First Lord of the Admiralty was a h a s e s a th d e rem No bl eo - stranies of Sir Richffd Strachan, he jocosely replied, " Go on, go on, I dare say you'll do very well 1" s These were the men who conducted the affairs of this were biec t t h s e ( m H e ea n rw,hko hear,) —according rfello e u , o the Wild dictates of their extravagant fancies BUt it was not solely to assist Austria, that Ministers plan ocotuthntryei—thse ned this expedition ; , it was, forsooth, to raise the my litary character and spirit of pie country. (Hear t hear.) He could not adequately qualify such an ex cess of presumption, and would only repeat his words, it was to raise the military character and spirit of the country. This certainly was highly flattering, highly complimentary to the army ;—but was either raised in the estimation of the country or of the' world by the result of their late Expedition ? or did' they find the character of the army so degraded,! ' - that, in order to brace the nerves of our warriors, they wanted to make them familiar with death . ?—' Why, common humanity would have induced them to give evert to the greatest cowards some chance in an honourable warfare,. instead of allowing them no other perspective but that of perishing ingloriously by disease. The attempt of the Noble Lord to jus tify the rashness of this Expedition by the example of Lord Nelson, the 'Right Honourable Gentleman thought perfectly ridiculous. Lord , Nelson, he said, had been - blamed also, for his rashness at Copen hagen, and at Aboukir, but that rashness, if it de serves that name, had been cro*ned by victory ; and could the Noble Lord be in earnest when he attempt ed to draw ever so faint a comparison between Lord Nelson and Lord Chatham ? And after all, he con fidently said that he trusted to the justice of the for his acquittal. The Right Honourable Gentleman trusted-on the contrary, that a large ma. - ' jority of that House would be of a far different opi._ nion. Yet the Noble Lord had so often experienced its mistaken and ill-applied lenity, that his hopes were natural. All his misdeeds had been forgiven, he had been allowed to retain his situation, and the power of doing further mischief, after the convention of Cintra ; after the campaign in which General Moore lost his life ; and after all the disasters which . followed it. Ih that point of view he considered the House as responsible for the Noble Lord's conduct, and, in some degree, as sharing in his guilt. Ile trusted that by their vote en this occasion they would wash away the stain, and break the disgraceful con nection. In fact, how could they acquit a man condemned as incapable by his own o Ileag ? (Hear, hear !)—a man against whom intrigues se, re carried on in the Cabinet without even his nearest connections offering to give him a hint on the sub ject • for this the country knew from the very best authority. Here the Right Hon. Gentleman con demned, in severe terms, the conduct of those Mini• sters who seemed to have hastened the sailing of the Expedition, ,and to have rejoiced in the idea of its failure, which they foresaw, as if it was to afford them • an opportunity of getting rid of the Noble Lord. But men, like them, callous from habit, bold from igne ranee, and confident from impunity, sported with the lives of their fellow subjects. —(Hear, heeitC).lle had heard of pamphlets, of libels against that House ; he solemnly appealed to the Honourable Gentlemen not to give substance to the foul aspersions, by protecting notorious delinquents, who had sacrificed the best troops and the dearest iuterests of the countrY.— (Hear, hear.) General CRAWFORD, before entering on the sub . ject of the debate, maintained the presumption, that Ministers on matters of this nature had the best pos sible information. He would admit the propriety of a diversion in the North of Germany, merely to ex cite an insurrection, and to abandon our deluded victims to the fury of a relentless tyrant. Our army there would be at the mercy of our Allies, and no dependance could be placed on the plans of Aus tria. Spain and Portugal, from want of provisions, could not have been thought of, unless we had been masters of Cadiz, which the jealousy of the .Spa niards prevented. The other plans of diversion which had been mentioned were still more imprac- . ticable, and the Scheldt appeared to him the only ' point where it would be attended with safety and with probability of success ; and when he considered the immense naval resources which the enemy had in that quarter, and which, combined with the flotilla of Boulogne and with the Dutch fleet, would certainly be employed in an invasion of this country, he thought the enterprize of the utmost importance to its vital interests. The gallant General dwelt at con siderable length on this topic, from which be argued, that no sacrifices would be thought too great, if by them the destruction of that arsenal could have been ' effected. The gallant Officer then observed, that al though he bad gone 'pretty much into detail, it was hardly necessary for him to do so, since that had been done by others, in some measure, more minutely per haps than was absolutely indispensible. It was, -howe'ver, clear to him, that from the information which GOvernment had received of the state and ren dition of Antwerp, the disposition of the enemy to withdraw the whole of his force to the Danube, Go • vern ment were completely justified in the Expedition which they had undertaken. Having therefore formed the plan of the Expedition, they applied to the Corn mander in Chief and the Officers on the Staff for their opinions upon the subject of that Expedition ; it had been endeavoured to be established, that these opi nions ought to have prevented Government from en tering on that Expedition altogether. Now, he could not, as a military man, assent to that conclusion.— As to the Commander in Chief, he admitted his ex cellent talents as an officer, knew him to be conver sant in general military 'subj ects, but - yet did not think his opinion conclusive upon the propriety of this Expedition ; he had formed his opinion on some false data ; had considered Antwerp as perfectly garri. soned, which it was not, and had therefore drawn a conclusion, which his good sense had'rejected, had, he been perfectly apprised of the fact in that parti cular. He would have been right in his conclusion, had his data been correct, but they were otherwise, and the conclusion therefore false. Of the opinion of General Calvert and Sir John Hope, he professed unfeigned esteem ; but they were inconclusive opi.: niens ; for they were given not as positive °Onions. but rather in the nature of advice, by way of raw, • ; 4 ".. '•-• • , - '4 , --......r•••••••••• . . V - * 4