Star. — London, England, 1821-06-01 00:00:00

'~~ '~ • - Pr - no consideration from doing his duty. The Hon. sut ant he arought that one for Ireland and one for Gentleman had himself admitted that certain place gngLani Would be a most liberal allowance: and he, men ought to have seats in the House ; and he had. was-of .fivinion, that three should be left to do the therefore, reduced the question from one of principle business of the Treasury , instead of doing what was to one of degree. In the time of Sir R. Walpole called the business of the House. The two Secreta-. 200 placemen held seats in that House; a circum ries were very useful and intelligent persons ; but as stance quite preposterous; and he would say that there they were appointed by the Commissioners, and not never was a tirne.when there were fewer placemen in by.the Crown, they ought, by the Act of Anne, to the House than now. He looked with as much jea vacate their seats. The Secretaries for Foreign Af- lousy as any man at the influence of the Crown in fairs, Colonies, and the Home Department, and the that House. It was begging the question to say, Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, ought that because the majority of the House had carried to have seats in the House ; but he saw no reason questions which the minority did not approve of, •why ,the Vice-Treasurer for Ireland should have placemen ought not to sit in the House. The Hon. a seat in the House. The Placemen played into Gentleman's argument ought to have gone to the each other's hands, and, of course, they would vote exclusion of all placemen. There must be in the for each other's salaries. His .object would be, to House of Commons that community of feeling which leave the President of the East India Board in the is excited by community of office. It did not at all House ; but he would turn out three Officers of that follow that, because the men in office voted together, Department. They were of no use in the House, and they necessarily voted wrong, or supported bad meas he did not believe they were of any use elsewhere— sures. He believed that men of both• parties acted (Hear, hear).—The House knew no more of the si- from the purest patriotism, and the most conscien tuation of the people of India, than it did of the pla- tious motives. As he gave that credit to the Hon. net Jupiter. But here were the Secretaries in the Gentleman, he hoped he might be allowed to claim House, doing nothing but swelling majorities ; but a like credit for himself, and those who acted with nothing at all as to Indian affairs. The next Board him. He had always respected the opinion of the was the Admiralty. Here he found five Lords, with People; and he had done all in his humble power £lOOO a-year, a Secretary, and a Comptroller of for their interest ; but it was impossible that Govern the Navy. They did nothing but vote against at- ment should not look to the right and the wrong of tempts at economy in the Navy Estimates, while the every question, withoutbending to every breath which First Lord was left to transact the whole business of may turn public opinion to every side. The power the Admiralty. Three-fourths of the junior Mem- of the Crown was never so small, in that House, bens of this Office took no part in the debates on the and the influence of public opinion was never so Estimates; but started at the rousing cry of "ques- great as at present. this f" and voted as Ministers wished, to increase or Colonel DAVIES contended, that if they consi decrease the Estimates—(//ear, hear).—He would dered the influence of the Crown throughout every not object to two Lords of the Admiralty and the Se- part of the country, no man would say it was ever cretary sitting in the House. In the House were the so great as at present, or that it could not have a Secretary to the Ordnance, and three others ; now, corresponding influence on that House ; especially in he would propose to leave only two. The Secretary the election of a majority of its Members, who were at War he would of course allow to sit in the House; always ready to support the measures of the Govern the Judge Advocate, the Paymaster of the Army, ment. He would appeal to the House whether the the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, and the majority against Reform in any department were Vice-President of the Board of Trade; but he saw no not principally made up. of placemen? They should reason why the Master of' the Mint should sit in the be allowed to defend themselves when attacked ; but House, nor why it had, for the first time, been made they ought not, out of delicacy, to vote on such a Cabinet Office—(Hear, hear).—ln his mind, they questions. The only object of his Hon. Friend's might as well give a seat in the Cabinet to a Corn- motion was to bring about a moderate and proper missioner of Bankrupts! The Surveyor-General of Reform in the constitution of that House. There the Woods and Forests should sit in Parliament, but was upwards of £600,000 a-year paid away in pen no other. There was the Comptroller of the House- sions and superannuated allowances, which gave the hold, two Lords of the Bedchamber, and others, Crown an enormous influence. Government should holding, as our ancestors call it, Livery of the King, not depend upon the support of the House of Com who sat in the House. They belonged to the Go- mons, but on the opinion and confidence of the Peo vernment of the day, to all Governments. They ple. They ought not to disregard the wishes and the voted, but gave the House no information. The opinions so frequently expressed by the People. Lord Advocate should sit in the blouse; but they The House then divided— had no business to have the Chief Justice of Chester, For the motion - because the Judges should keep their minds aloof Against it - from all political squabbles. He saw no occasion Majetity for the Irish Masters in Chancery having seats in the POLL AT ELECTIONS IN YORKSHIRE. Lord MI moved for l House; for they must sit there to the great injury of _ LTON leave to bring fi in a Bill - - - - 76 - the suitors. There are now in Parliimeut twenty nine persons whom he wished to turn out of Parlia ment, out of fifty-one persons who held places during the pleasure of Government; and who, like Lord Fife, might be turned out of office when they displeased the Government—{he ar, /tear). —The Hon. Gentle man having gone through his details, proceeded to recommend the House to pay due regard to the pro gress of .public opinion, and to follow the system of'' our ancestors, drat as an abuse arose, a remedy should be provided; and it was thus new blood and life were at intervals poured into the decayed Constitution, by trevivifying and refreshing principle. For the last half century, the influence of the Crown had rapidly gained ground on the rights of the People: that in fluence was immortal, he might almost say, eternal ; death had no power over it ! and if, in 1780, it was voted that the power of the Crown had increased, was increasing, and ought to be diminished, how much more necessary was it now to check and to controul it? On this subject he could not do better than read the words of a Protest entered on the Journals of the Lords by certain Peers, among whom was Lord Bathurst, in 1780, on the rejection of the Pension Bill, which Protest put the subject in a clear and' strong point of view. It stated, that they " objected to the rejection of the Bill, because, strictly speaking,. all '-fluence over either House of Parliament, except for the more conveniently taking the PoCat Elec tions for Members of Parliament to serve for the County of York. His object was to allow, in cases of contested elections, that the Sheriff should keep an open poll at the Castle at York, while he was hold ing other polls in three of the other great towns in the County. By this means all these, polls might be closed at one time, and in as short a period as at pre sent. He also wished to appoint Vice-Sheriffs, who should have the same powers to take the returns, and decide on disputed votes, as the High Sheriff. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY would not oppose this measure now ; but, if this were carried, it would become a question how far they would be opening grounds for altering the method of taking the poll in other places. This would introduce a new principle into the law of election. Lord HOTHANI would not oppose the Bill in its present stage. Mr. S. WORTLEY thought the measure of di viding the County would be the means of dissolving the ancient connection which had subsisted between the Gentlemen of the different parts of the County. After a few words from Mr. BEAtratosT, leave was given to bring in the Bill, which was done, and it was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Monday. _ Colonel DAVIES brought up the Report of the that which arises from a sense of the duty we owe to our King and Country, is improper ; and because the particular influence to be prevented by the Bill is not only improper, but must in the course of time become extremely pernicious both to the Crown and People. _Although the influence appears to be that of the Crown, it may become that of the Minister, and may in the end be applied to deceive the Prince, as well as to oppress the People. A corrupt Minister, in the distribution of places and pensions, may be able to create such an influence as may effectually deprive the Prince of a knowledge of the true sentiments of his People ; the House of Commons may then adopt such measures as the whole Nylon dislikes ; and the King, for the sake of an unworthy servant, may lose the affections of his subjects, while be imagines he both deserves and possesses them. Hence these ter rible consequences may follow—that the worst pro posals for the Public will be the most likely to suc ceed, and that the weakest Minister will be the best supported ; the reason whereof we take to be exceed ingly plain, Since the improper influence may be di rected to any purpose whatever, and most exerted when most wanted ; and the same of all bad mea sures and weak Ministers."—Whether such were a prophesy of the present state of things, he (Mr. Ben nett) would leave others to determine ; but if the House die) not reform itself by turning out all useless Placemen and Pensioners—if it did not remove now what was thought a scandal in the reign of King William, it could not retain the confidante, affection, or respect of the People. The exertions•of an honest House of Commons were at this time more than ever necessary to avert or diminish the dangers that threat ened The country ; and if he were not successful in the struggle he had made, during a short political life, against a system which threatened to overwhelm himself and his children, at least he had the satisfac tion of knowing that he had done his duty—(Hear, hear).—He now moved for leave to bring in a Bill, for better securing the Independence of Parliament. The question having been put from the Chair, Mr. F. ROBINSON said, it might be an ungra cious task to oppose any measure which might come under the specious pretext of securing the iudepen deuce of Parliament ; but he should be deterred by AUSTRIAN LOAN. Lord JOHN RUSSELL wishfd to know why Austria denied that she owed seventeen millions to this country? He wished a copy of the reasons for this. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY objected to produce it until claims were made upon Austria. Lord J. 4USSELL said, that if the Austrian Go vernment denied the debt, there must be an end to I'the negotiation. In the early part of the next week, either he or the Member for Bucks would call the attention of the House to the subject. AGRICULTURE. Lord MILTON wished to know when the Report from the Agricultural Committee would be laid be fore the House? It had formerly been stated, that the Report would be presented within ten days after Easter, but though six weeks had elapsed, the Report had not yet appeared, and it was rumoured that some time would yet expire before it would be presented. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that, in the absence of the Chairman of the Committee, it was not in his power to give an answer. The Noble Lord must himself feel how impossible it was for any individual Member to state when the Report of a Committee, even on a subject of minor importance, was likely to be ready. Lord MILTON.—Then the meaning of this is, that the whole of the present Session has been whiled away by his Majesty's Government in doing no thing ?—(Hear, hear). The Marquis of LONDONDERRY.—Perhaps it may be said that the Session has been whiled away by the Noble Lord and his friends !—(Hear). Mr. TIERNEY.— As the Noble Marquis is a Mem ber of the Committee, he can perhaps form a pretty accurate judgment of the time when the Report will be ready. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY.—I can give no other answer. Mr. BENNETT.—The Noble Lord (Milton) and his friends have been endeavouring to save the public money, and to save human lives—(Hear, hear). Why, I ask, is no Report yet made on the state of Agricul tural Distress—a subject which agitates all classes from the Land's End to the other extremity of the kingdom ?—(Hear, hear). Mr. HUSKISSON.—If the subject is of so grave a nature as to agitate the country from the Land's End to its opposite extremity, is not that a very good reason for not precipitating a Report ?—(Hear, hear). The Noble Lord thinks that a Report might have been presented in ten days after Easter, which was not done : but does he not perceive the danger at. tendant on taking any hasty steps in a matter of such importance? —(Hear, hear). SUPPLY-ORDNANCE. The Report of the Ordnance was then brought up. Mr. HUME animadverted on the extravagant ex pense incurred in the Ordnance Department, and moved, that the first grant should be reduced from 1.43,671, to £27.271. Mr. LOCKHART was incapable of determining whether the original sum moved, or that proposed in the .Amendment, was most fitting, because Mi nisters had not enabled the House to know what was the situation of the country. By the influence of Ministers the House were excluded from the informa tion which might have been obtained from the Agri cultural Committee. It was not to be supposed that the same burdens could be borne now that had been submitted to when those classes who were at present suffering from the low prices, were enjoying high prices and were in a state of prosperity. Ministers ought to look the evil manfully in the face, instead of endeavouring to conceal or gloss it over. He con tended that they ought not to vote a single Estimate until they -knew what the resources of the country were by the Report of the Agricultural Committee. From what he knew of the distress of that interest from personal observation, the country could not pay the expenditure they were called upon to grant. The Chancellor of the Exchequer would perhaps come forward at a future period and tell them that the Revenue had been most successfully collected; but he should consider that it was only so much taken from the capital and resources of the country. Mr. RICARDO said, that in justification to his Majesty's Ministers, and to the Agricultural Com mittee, of which he was a mtmber, he felt himself Committee appointed to examine the evidence as -- --c, "I ""--- called upon to state that no obstacle whatever had to the adulteration of Clover-seed. The Committee reported that they had found the adulteration of this been thrown in the way of that Committee by the former, and that every exertion had been made by the article to be very prevalent in this country. to The delay which had occurred arose entirely to be laid oil the table. from the nature of the business. He firmly believed ALTERATION IN THE CRINIINAL LAW. - that a Report would be made before the prorogation Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH rose. of Parliament. The Marquis of LONDONDEItItY rose to order. Mr. W A RRE considered that the main question His Lordship stated that the Budget would come on had not been met by his Majesty's Ministers. There to-morrow. That question was connected with the was a plain statement made that the services which money market and the credit of the country. It cost the country £19,000 some time back, were would be anomalous to bring forward the Budget now charged at £lB,OOO. This had not been ac until the Ordnance Estimates were reported. counted for, nor noticed by Hon. Members opposite, Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH could not give up and he was much surprised at their taciturnity upon his possession of the House. He was opening his such statements being made to the House. amendments, when - Mr. R. IVARD said, that he did not rise to notice The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said he would the statements to which the Hon. Member alluded, take the sense of the House on proceeding on this because he had lately been so often before the House, Order of the Day. that they must be quite tired of seeing him--(Ilear). Sir J. MACKINTOSH said, he proposed to read Besides which, the arguments upon this question on the clauses pro forma, and to have the debate on the both sides had been repeated night after night. The third reading, on Monday. His intention was to ex- cause of the increase avas to be found in the addi elude the private stock of the Bank of England, and tional accounts, in the addition of the Half-pay List, the forging of Country Bank Notes. He proposed which was sixteen times greater than at the period to fix forgery at ten years imprisonment and hard with which the comparison was made; the addition labour ; and uttering at from six to ten years' hard of the Irish business and of that of the new Colonies, labour. He did not think this should extend to any together with the new method of keeping the ac paper but the circulating paper of the country.— counts. It was in fact to the growth of the whole The Amendments were then agreed to in a re-Com- service that the additional expense was to be attn. mittee on the Bill. The Report was received, and bated. But above all, the arrears.of the accounts the Bill ordered to be read a third time on Monday. was the principal cause why the present establish- Sir J. MACKINTOSH then moved the committal ments were obliged to be kept up in the offices. of the Felonies on Rivers' Bill. After a few words from Sir J. NEWPORT and Mr. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY must object R. WARD, the House divided— to the postponement of public business. For the Amendment - - - 72 Mr. BUXTON wished to know whether anything Against it - - - - 92 could be more important than one of life and death ? Majority for the Resolution - - —2 O The Marquis of LONDONDERRY moved as an Several Resolutions were then received and agreed Amendment, that the Report of the Committee of to without opposition. I Upon the Resolution for granting i'56,000 for in- Supply should be received. Lord MJLTON wished to know whether Minis- cidental expenses,. &c. for the various Barracks, for tors would undertake to advise the King not to pro- the *Tower,• and the other Garrisons and Fo r t s i n rogue the Parliament beTore these Bills were fully Great Britain and the islands of Guernsey and Jersey. discussed? I Mr. GIPPS observed, that this was an it em upon Sir J. MACKINTOSH agreed to postpone the - which he moved a reduction of £22,000 in the Com ' mittee. The House was then promised explanations Committees on the Bills till Monday. glad t o h ear, if upon it, which he should now be they were ready. If not, he should move the so me reduction as he did upon that occasion. Mr. R. WARD repeated his former statements, t o chew that this Estimate was composed of other item s besides the repairs, which the Honourable lklemb er seemed to take to be the subject of the whole char. e . An inspection of the accounts should be at any ti to % open to the Honourable Member in private. Mr. GIPPS did not think that a private interview and explanation afforded to him would or ought to be satisfactory to the House—(Hear, hear}. Mr. WARD repeated his explanation. Mr. GIPPS said, that he should not pre ss hi s Amendment to a division, because he thought it would be of no avail. Mr. DENMAN said, that if it was of no avail to divide the House upon this question, with a vie s o f carrying the Amendment, yet it was or consesnence that the country should see that there were som e is that House who were the real Representatives of ti e People of England. That there were those who, i n a time of profound peace. would not consent to an enormous expense for building Barracks all over the country, two years after the causes which were said to require them had entirely subsided. There wa s a small minority who would still continue to exert them. selves, notwithstanding the overwhelming majoritie s which the Noble Lord opposite had secured by th e decision of the house that night, upon the mothm of his Hon. Friend, for securing the independence of Parliament—((sheers). Lord MILTON wished to ask a question relative to the expense of Barracks in the northern district; which were in a disturbed state some time ago. H e understood that the Magistrates now refused to bear those expenses, and he wished to know if it was thz intention of Government to do so? Mr. ARBUTHNOT said, that as the disturbances had ceased, it was natural that the people should not like to pay those expenses—(Hear).—The Govern. ment had accordingly made arrangements to meet them.—The House then divided : . For the Amendment - - C 2 Against it - - - - - - Majority for the original Resolution —36 Upon two Resolutions, one for the Artillery Set. vice, the other for Pensions to Officers' Widows, &c. Mr. HUME advised that the former should he re , duced by altering the number of Battalions and Companies ; and with respect to the latter, that is another year there should be but one Pension List, ix which the Pensions for the various services should ap. pear together. At present the House was deceived by the manner in which the lists were made out. The Resolution for granting the sum of £137,030 for the Barrack Department was then proposed. Mr. BERN AL objected to this Resolution, upon I the grounds stated in the Committee. He moved a reduction of £78,000. Mr. ARBUTHNOT said, £75,000 of the money had been voted by Parliament, and a great part of it was already expended. Besides which, contracts had I been entered into for the building of the Barracks. After a few observations from Mr. Maxwett and Mr. ARBUTUNOT, relative to the Barracks at Hamil ton and Glasgow, Mr. HUME hoped that the House would support the Amendment. With respect to the contracts for the Barracks, he was ready to vote for pulling them all down again as soon as erected, rather than incur the expense of maintaining them.--The House div idea t For the Amendment - - 61 Against it Majority for the Resolution - —43 Upon the last Resolution being proposed, which was a grant of £40,000 for the Penitentiary at Millbank, Mr. LOCKHART expressed his objection to the establishment altogether. Mr. C. Losu Mr. W. S,ILTH, and Mr. HOLTORD, supported it—The Resolution was then agreed to. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY moved that the other Orders of the Day be now read. The Justices of the Peace Bill was read a second time, sad ordered to be committed on Tuesday next. The Turnpike Roads Bill, after some observations made by Mr. LOCTAIART and Mr. F. Lewis, was read a second time, as 4 ordered to be committed. . The Charitable Lands Exchange Bill was read a second time, and committed for Monday. The Resolution for making Steam Boats take out Licences was agreed to, and a Bill ordered to be brought in for the purpose. The other Orders were disposed of, and the Mouse adjokuved at Twelve o'Clock. The Literary Gazette of Saturday, June 2, No. 228, will contain, Reviews and copious Extracts of Sir Robert Ka Porter's Travels in Persia, Babylonia, &c. Visit to Platoff. Dreadful Avalanches of Mount Caucasus. Remarkable Customs of the areassians. Of the Posthumous Works of Mr. John Scott Of Mr. Dibdin's second Bibliographical Volume. Grillparzers emend Drama. Accounts of eminent Scotsmen. Original Words of My Nanny, 0 ! &c. Sm. Critique on the new Tragedy of Damon and Pythias. History of Queen Mary's Diamond Seal. Unpublished Poetry by Pope, and other Poems. Im portant new Colour for Artists. London Architecture. Etbi. bitions. Miscellaneous in Science, Literature, the Arts, and Anecdotes, &c. &c.—Published by W. A. Scripps, Literary C* zette Office, 562, Strand. SOCIETY OF ARTS.—His Royal Highness the Duke of Sussex, who presided on Wednesday at the Meet• ing at the Freemasons Hall, distributed the honorary' rewards, accompanying each with some appropriate observations : The first Gentleman named was C. F. PALMS, EST to whom were given two large gold medals, and a large Uh l medal ; the two first for planting 280 acres with 663,420 feted trees, and 30,700 oaks for timber; the latter for .owlet ii‘ bushels of acorns, on 240 acres. The next was a large gold medal given to T. Wo.sresen,E9l. of Fitzroy-square, for sowing 240 bushels of acorns on 260arse‘ The small, or Ceres gold medal, was given to Sir W. Bart. of Shute House, near Axminster, for raising 896, 02 °' from acorns. To IL Parrs, Esq. the large silver medal, for plastog 1" acres with 528,240 forest trees. To E. Dawsox, Esq. the large gold medal, for eriba° lllgg 166 acres of marsh land from the eta. To the Candidates in the Polite Arts, there wel t 41 medals of different kinds distributed : Mr. W. SALUXURT, of Brompton, received the Ceres ei . he! medal, for matting made of the typha latifola, or bulrush, wbica promises to be a source of employment to many poor person` The Isis gold medal was given to Mr. Bissor, for his do* very of mill-stone of superior quality. In Mechanics there were fourteen inventions: Lieutenant N. 11. Nicnoirs, R.N. received the ' large 53111 medal, for a semaphore of superior construction. g b‘ e ") g w ol ' cl o m f eei lll ve r ti t S he . l ß a n t to correct the local variation of a ship's c omp tss. edthael.RfeloatlheAicnaedeenmtteino e of fAnVoniatlietit=cl4; to' scv , street, for a most important invention of instrumen ts The geld medal was al.to granted to Mr. J. Pro ms, of T ata harbour. This Gentleman also received the larg e silver taro the trim of a shi ms whether Forded or unloaded, at sea CU. for the discovery of a method of ventilating the held; a AO and warming and ventilat:ng apartraen:). • .‘ v. .*