Star. — London, England, 1831-03-02 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PA RLIAM ENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, Matto' 1. The Earl of RADNOR presented a petition from Basingstoke, for arlimiter.tary reform. The Bishop of LITCHFIELD, several petitions from Coventry, and ~he r parts of his diocese, for the abolition of slavery. The Duke of NOILTHU NI BERLAND presented a petition from the Boman Cat:iolics of Galway, for the elective franchise in that town. The Duke of GORDON, petitions from Banff, for Parliamentary reform. and one from Bristol, against election by ballot. The 31arquis of I.ONDONDERRY presented a petition from the and dealers cf Newcaatle-upon-Tyne, for repeal of the duties upon coals. Loul KING presented petitions from two parishes .in Sussex and Norfolk, against tithes. CANAMAN LANDS BILL. Lord GODERICII brought M a bill to amend an actioassed in ig2s, for giving legal tenure to lands held in Canada. The noble viscount stated thc object of the bill, which was to give the hnd holders of the colony a good tenure, and empower his Majesty to carry into effect an act of the Canadian Legislature.—The bill was read the first time. The Egrl of SHAFTESBURY presented a petition from Warwick. Ai r ,. praying for reform in Parliament. The LORD CII ANCELLOR said he held a petition which had been intrusted to his care, by a Noble Friend (the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster), who was so indisposed as to be unable to present it. His Noble Friend (Lord Holland) had charged him to express the great interest he took in this petition, which came from the town of :Manchester, signed by 12,,100 merchants. manufacturers, and others, praying for general Itefomi in Parliament. There was another petition to the same effect from Salford, signed by 2,000. They might be eon. sidered one petition, as both places were contiguous. His noble friend had blontied him, that the meeting at which the petition was agreed w, understood it was to be presented on the first day of the meeting of Par liament, after the recess. It was consequently taken to London for that purpose, otherwise the signatures would have been ten times more nu merous.—The petition was read, and laid on the table. Also one from Halifax to the same effect, signed by 1,070 persons. Also one from Wakefield, and one from Lincolnshire. REFORMS 111 CHANCERY. The LORD CHANCELLOR said he had proposed to commit his Bill on the subject of lunacy that Jay pro forma, but the notice had bee;: given in error, and he was desirous of discharging the order. He should postpone the Committee till to-morrow, when the Bill might be entertained pro forma , and prepared for Monday nest.— The noble and learned Lord accordingly moved that the order of the day be discharged. EMOLUMENTS OF THZ COURT OF CHANCERY. The LORD CHANCI LI.OII being on his legs, made an allusion to the statement of the Lord Chief Baron (Lord Lyndhurst) respecting the ateuunt the Chancellor would relinquish by the measure to diminish fees of the Great Seal. The reduction was 8,3901. and not 7,5001. The Chancellor's salary was 45,0001. net. Take from that 7,5001. for bankruptcy, and 8901. fur fees, the reduction would be 8,3901 His noble and learned friend, in his calculation, had assumed that fees on commissions in country hanktuptcles were not to be included in the bill. They were to be included. Their lordships might not know that 61. were levied on every certificate ; part went to the Chancellor and part to the officer. Now, what was a certificate of bankrupt ? A certificate under the hand of the Commissioners, certified by the Lord Chancellor, proved that the party bankrupt had conformed to all the laws relating to bankruptcy, viz.—he had been divested of all property; anti then the first thing the Lord Chancellor did was to take 61. out of the property. This he considered absurd, and proposed to give up the fee. It had been supposed that he (Lord B.) had said the Chancellor's salary ought to be reduced to 7,5031. but he had never said that. With some exception, the greatest satisfaction bad been expressed with re spect to his reforms in bankruptcy. To be sure, one side of the Court of Chancery complained of his putting too much on the Chancellor's officers; but his examination before a Committee of the Commons would prove how far he had stated matter of blame against any pawn in the Court of Chancery. There was another complaint lie had been charged with—a wish to screen a number of persons in the plaster's office ; but it would appear that he was not disposed to screen nor accuse one side or the other. Lord WYNFORD was happy to hear his Noble and Learned Friend seas preparing to reduce the expense of commissions of bankruptcy. He called thi attention of his Noble Friend to the power which credi tors had to give or withhold their signatures; this was a subject which called for consideration. The LORD CHANCELLOR said the remark made by his Noble and Learned Friend, as applied to certificates, was of great importance. He knew the practice by which they obtained what was called white. wash Commissions. and it would be necessary to apply. salutary check. Lord ELLENBOROUGH thought it was impossible, having heard the statemeut of the Lord Chief Baron, that the total loss in the fees of the Noble and Learned Lord could be more than 7,6001. It ap peared that the Noble and Learned Lord had looked after the fees and emoluments of the Great Seal more minutely doting three months than his predecessor had done in three years. The LORD CHANCELLOR said, if ever he should be found at tending to the emoluments of the great seal with a view to increase those fees, he ought not to escape sarcasm. If he ever should coarse down to that house and oppose bills for the ease of the suitor, because those bills might take fees out of his office, he would submit to be told he was anxiously looking into the fees of his o ffi ce ; but when be told their lordship* that all he was doing was to reduce his fees and patronage (hear, hear), when he had given up fees to a large amount—he thought it was too much to be told by any noble lord who was not in the habit of giving up fees and emoluments derived from the public (hear, hear) that he had looked after his fees more in three months than his prede cessor did in three years. (Hear, hear.) Lord ELLENBOROUGH did not mean to use sarcasm. If the noble and learned lord would bring forward any inquiry into the emo luments he received for the official services of his father, he should be to meet that inquiry. The Earl of RADNOR was astonished to hear any thing like sar casm applied to the noble and learned lord, whose disinterestness de. served the compliments of that house. The patronage end emoluments given up by the noble and learned lord, for the benefit of the public, was appreciated out of that house. Lord ELLENBOROUGH explained. The Earl of WINCHILSEA thought every noble lord who derived property for the service of his ancestors ought to submit to a reduction of the same, to meet the distresses of the country. Could the noble lord expect his property to remain undiminisheJ, when all ranks were called upon to make sacrifices ? Lord ELLENBOROU G H again explained. The conversation then ended. _ _ Earl GREY presented petitions from Newcastle under Lyne, and other places, for Reform. Lunt MELBOURNE presented similar petitions from Warrington and Waterforti..—Their lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. The SPEAKER entered the House shortly after three o'clock, but in con.equence of there being a ballot for three Election Committees, the gallery was not opened for the admission of strangers until five o'clock. As soon as the doors were open the rush was tremendous, and in a few seconds every seat was occupied. The House was also completely filled with Members, as well In the body of the House as in both the side galleries. The greatest confusion for some time pre wailed, in consequence of the immense rush that took place into the gallery as aoon as the doors were opened. Many persons, even though they got into the gallery, found great difficulty in getting seats, while others were rather uaceremonietbly tossed from the back to the front row of the gallery, over the heads of those whom they passed in their hasty descent. In consequence of all this, business was for some time suspended, during which " Silence" was very frequently called from the Chair, and once or twice " Clear the gallery," though no further attempt was made to put this call into execution. A very great num ber of Peers lined the aide galleries; amongst them were the Dukes of Norfolk and Gordon, Lords Suffield, Albemarle, Darnley, lite. When silence was obtained, a great number of petitions were pre sLnteli from various parts, which ciaidy prayed fur reform and vote by ballot. Mt. C. W. WYNN made his appearance on the Treasury Bench at a quarter before five, and created much merriment throughout the house, from the circumstance of having the front of his hat decorated with a ltwk, whicit he wore in commemoration of this belt% St. David's Day. THE GOVERNMENT PLAN OP PARLIAMENTARY REFORM. Lord JOHN RUSSELL appeared on the Treasury Bench at five minutes before six, and was loudly cheered from various parts of the House. Shortly afterwards he was called upon by the Speaker, but the confusion was so great that he could not proceed. The SPEAKER having heard a Member complain his place had been taken by another in his absence, said, he could only observe, that bon. members must be aware that seats which had been occupied by hon. members were considered as kept for them In their absence when they had retired to prayers, and until they were displaced by a division of the House. He wished also to observe, that when he came down at three o'clock to-day, he never in his life had seen the House so full ; and that when the House came to the ballot, the papas stuck up on the back of the seats were infinitely more numerous than he had ever beheld. Lord JOHN RUSSELL again attempted to proceed, but was unable- The SPEAKER said he heard the complaint renewed, to which be tould only repeat the observation he had already made in reply, bat it n.ight require the consideration of the house whether when boo. membas 1 :1,4 retired to prayers, and had been sent for by the t at Arms,i uith the mace, requiring their presence at the ballet, B 2 . 2ey had not 'ppearal ie the Hours, their seats were equally to be easeitlared as kept. Alter *hat pause, the Speaker again called upon Lord JOHN RUSSELL. His Lordship, dime having ban ob tained, proceeded, observing. I rise, with= of the 3 !lnetr. to bring forward a question of unp interest wri ts : likewise a question of unparalleled difficulty, noels r in =drialece in the least removed by the reflection that on hum I Neve brought.this important question before the ss kiseadss of the Hesse; for if on the other occasions I have lurked the attentiou of the two Houses of Parliament to this consideration, it has been upon my own responsibility, reepooxibility, and in vo l v i ng no one in thefallure of the attempt with myself, though I have often been completely gratified by partial sue. cess. But, sir, the measure I have now to bring forward, is a meta. sure, not of mine, but of the Government of the country in whose name I now appear—(cheers)—the deliberate measures of a whole Cabinet, unanimous upon this subject, and resolved to place their measures before this House in redemption of their pledge to ' their SavereigL, to Parliament, and to the country. (Loud cheers.) ' It is therefore with peat anxiety that I venture to explain their lute°. I tions to the house upon a subject, the interest of which is known by the crowded audience which is assembled here, but still more by the deep I anxiety which is felt by millions out of this house, (hear, hear.) mil lions, I say, who look with anxiety—who look with hope—who look with expectation—to the result of this day's deliberations. (Cheers.) Sir, I am sure it is not necessary that I should say any more to du I away with a notion, which an honourable and learned member oppo site (Sir C. Wetherell) endeavoured to spread, that this question, not being brought forward by a member of the cabinet, was not the Ines- ' sure of the King's ministers. (Hear, bear.) I am sure the house will be convinced that what t am going to propose is the measure which the King's ministers have determined upon. (Cheers.) The measure itself was formed by the noble lord who is at the present tine at the head of the Government; he formed it in his own mind—he com municated it to his colleagues—ft was communicated to mc, and I have ever since been consulting, either severally or collectively, with the members of his Ma . jesty's!. cabinet* upon it. (Cheers.) 1 only wish that the noble bud himself, who is at the head of his Majesty's Government, could be 'tenni tted by any law or Act of l'arllament to have explained this measure to the home IL his own propet person ; but as that is impossible, I lanai that the house I will favour me With its indulgence while 1 endeavour to perform this ' task, 1 am afraid very inadequately ; but, i am sure, with a sincere I and earnest desire that our efforts may be attended with success.— I (Hear.) Much cavil has been raised upoo an expression of the noble lord whom I have allude' to, that he would endeavour to frame such a 4 measure as must satisfy the public mired, without at the same time en- 4 dangaing the settled institutions of the country. Do you mean, says one party, by the settled institutions of the country, the close and rotten boroughs ? I think we shall show, in the course of the explanation I we are about to make, it is not the close and rotten boroughs whieb were intended by the settled institutions of the country. (Hear, hear, hear, and loud cheers.) What ! said the other party, how can you pre. tend to settle and quiet the public mind without endangering the settled institutions of the country ? If you do settle the public mind, you must shake the settled institutions of the country. (Hear.) We are of the re verse opinion, because in attemptini, to quiet the public mind it is not ne. cessary that we should bring into danger the settled institution of the country. We are of opinion that those institutions, resting as they have heretofore done in the confidence and love of Englishmar, must conti nue to rest on the very same foundution ; and while we discard the no tion of complying with extravagant anti violent remarks, we at the same time wish to place the clear measure before the: house, that every rea sonable man, both in and out of the house, and in the country, may be satisfied with, if it should pass into a law. We wish to place ourselves, therefore, between the two hostile parties ; neither agreeing whit the bigoted, on the one hand, that no reform is necessary, nor agreeing with the fanaticism of others, that only sonic particular kind of lkfunu can by any means be satisfactory to the people, or wholesome ; but, placing ' ourselves between the two, and stating what 1 hope to be a firm and steadfast groundtbetween the abuse we wish to amend and die paves. skins which we hope to avert. It is not necessary certainly that on thisoc cuion I should go over the grounds which have so frequently;:been gone over in stating the arguments in its favour. There can be no doubt that the *presentation in this house as it now exists, is not a mitre sentation fitting the country at this crisis. I need not go into the changes and alterations which have taken !place in the representation of later years. It is sufficient for me to say that it is not a real reptesen tation.—(Hear, hear.) And I have no hesitation in saying, that it will be impossible that the house, as it at present exists, can stand. I think, ' if the reformers of ancient days were now in existence, and were to see that a green mound or a broken wall sent two membe rs to parliament, they would be greatly astonished. l'hey would be still more astonished were they to go into the northern parts of this country, and were to see flourishing towns containing immense manufactories and depositories of every sort of merchandize—l think that they would be still more asto. niched were they to know than these places sent no represcntives to par liament. But I will not stop here • they would be still more astonished were they taken to a great and opu lent town—l may mention its name, Liverpool—and were to be told that the manner in which general elec tions were there conducted was on a system of popular election.— (Hear, hear.) If he were taken there, he would see bribery to the greatest extent,_.( Hear.) De would see men there paid—openly paid for their votes ; and he would be astonished that a nation whose repre sentatives were so chosen, should be at all competent to perform the functions of legislation. If the question be one of right, or one of reason ' in both instances it would be favourable to reform. What is the case as it now stands P The people call loudly for re. form, saying, that whatever good existed in the Constitution of this house—whatever confidence was placed in it by the people, is completely gone- (Cris of No and Hear, which lasted for several mi. nuts.) I say boldly, that whatever may be thought of particular acts, the confidence of the country, in the structure and constitution of this house, is completely gone—(Cries of No, no, answered by loud cries of Hear. hear.) I will say more, I will say that if such towns as Leeds and Manchester are not to have representatives, when such places as Hatton and Old &trust have, it is impossible to say that the repro. saltation is properly carried on—(Cheers.) And that unless such places are allowed to have reprmentatives, the confidence which once existed between this house those whom honourable members call their constituents, is wholly lost. I end this argument b saying, if the case be one of right, it is in favour of I it be a question of reason, it is in favour of Reform—if it be a question of policy and expediency, policy and expediency loudly call for it—(Cheers.) I shall now proceed to the more difficult part of my subject, namely, an explanation of the measures which, represent. big the Ministers of the Crown, I am now about to propose to the house. Tnow Ministers have felt—an d in my opinion rightly—that it would not be sufficient to grant a passive and insufficient Reform by lopping off some few straggling branches.—His Majesty's Ministers are sa tisfied that it is not sufficient to stop here, or to lop or one branch of the franchise where direct bribery has been proved ; they are con vinced that no half measures will do—(loud cheers}—they arc as con. vineed, that any trifling or faltering in their course would be calcu lated not to give that which it is their wish to give, stability to the Throne, strength to Parliament, or satisfaction to the country. , (Immense cheering.) Let us, then, look to the complaints of the ' people. for, without knowing what these complaints are, it is impossi ble that we can devise any remedies which would satisfy them, that their grievances would be abated. Let us, with regard to those griev ances, ascertain whether they are real grievances, or alleged ones, and If we are satisfied that those grievances are real, then our next en. deavour ought to be that which I and my friends have determined to ci h rsue re ; m na e m di e2, w t e o the ve necessary think we disco vered ; and if the y ' shou h l e d ar iii unsuccessful, we shall consider it as a great misfortune to the people, and to the Parliament. The grievances of which the people complain in the state of the repasentadon, are, first, nomination by individuals; secondly, election by close corporations • and thirdly, the expense of elections. (Loud and continued che ering.) With regard to nominations, I admit that it may be exercised in one of two ways, first, where the rere is a small number or no inhabitants, and an extensive right of suffrag e; and secondly, where the place is large, with a dense population, and the right of suffrage very limited. Gat- ton furnishes an example of the first kind, and Bath of the second.— In Groton, I believe the right of suffrage is extensive enough—it is extended to all householders paying scot and lot ; but then the popula tion is so small, that there are only five persons to exercise the right. With Bath the case is different—there the town is large and the popu lation numerous ; and I do not mean to say that the populatton has not a right to send Members to Parliament; and I have never heard any persons ray, that they thought sue*: town as Bath ought to be de prived of that right ; but then the right of same Is b 0 limited that the election is managed by a few, and the great body of the inhabitants have no voice at all. To both these evils it is esesndal that we should apply remedies, but at the sante time each must to dealt with in a different way. With regard to those boroughs which are utterly de- I atyed, in which there are no individuals to exercise the franchise, it would be a mere farce to take away the right which is now exercised I by any individual in order to give it to the hundred ; the only remedy that can be applied in cases of this kind is most certainly to deprive such persons of the right of nomination altogether. I am ptly aware that in making this proposition we are a bold and de. cided measure. I am also aware that in a ll or dinary ocartions the right* of this kind ought to be respected, and upon that considera tion I shall give my vote. (Hear,hear, hear.) No interest— however trifling, should upon ordinary ccasion be touched, but then public considerations might wrier it desirable to destroy Lot only small and trifling interests, but those of some importance, and in sup pat of that opinion I shall beg leave to quote the sentiments expressed by the Right Honourable Baronet opposite (Sir Robert Peel), who about two years ago proposed two most important measures which were ultimately adopted by the Legislature. About two yeses ago the House would recollect that the Right Hosourable Gentleman proposed a measure known by the name of Catholic Entandpation, and in connection with that measure another for the disfranchiseassot of two hundred thousand uneffending men, who bad violated mo st ?in, who had broken no law, who had resided theft privikiss, trnatly, perhaps im p atiently , but adll bed they exercised manner - which they is their comedown believed se he best. I am not going to quote the print Haseemble Geadmaewls words for any opinion that the Right Heasnenble flustleems le bound to be , consistent-1 Bear ' sad a lowsh)—becsase i dill*, ea a of great Importance, all min web& to act accemflog so the bar judgment for the benefit of the eesetry. I beg the BOOM b 0 that when two years ago the Right Hon. Gan. meal ea this the House as a Mbhter of the Crown, and as the repommlatlue el the , opinions of these who are sow oat of olliee, that be mei r desk ore , what wqe the etrammumeas which hammed their Amides epee OM important voodoo. I remember be meals kel the Haw that 'pa venue occasions they were bound to veep beyond the ordinary rules by which their decisions were guided upon ordinary occasions, anti he w. enticed the cases of the Union and the Septennial Act and other occa sions when that Howie in order to provide for great measures, and take increased liberties, bad interfered with the common rules and modes which regulated their usual proceedings. Upon that occasion the Right Hon. Gentleman said, " I certainly admit the full force of the objections which will undoubtedly be raised against the MOtion, which will interfere with existing rights. No doubt the elective franchise is a vested right, hut It is a right which differs from others—it differs from the right of property and other private rights—it is a public trust which ought to he approached, no doubt, with caution and reluctance, bto still it is a right which Parliament is competent to deal with." Such was the sentiment uttered by the Right Honourable Gentleman on that occasion—sentiments with which the House then agreed— there never was any measure carried through this House with more unanimity than that measure.—( Hear, hear, hear.) We have therefore decided to make this a public remedy. 1 mean the population return of 1821 ; and we prop toe that every borough which was under 2.000 inhabitants in 1021 shall lose the privilege of sending Members to Parliament. This will utterly disfranchise CO boroughs. We do not stop here. The Hon. Member for Borouglthritige at pre wet says,. plus ultra ; we take 47 botoughs under 4,000 inhabitants, and we deprive them of the right of sending more than one member. We likewise propose that Weymouth, which now sends four members to this House. shall send but two. Now, as 1 said, we do not allow the remaining boroughs to remain in the hands of select corporations, or a small number of the inhabitants, to the exclusion of a great body of persons having property and rights io those towns. It is a point of great difficulty to say to whom we propose to extend this franchise ; in ancient times, I believe, it will tie found that every person railing in a borough who possessed an inhabited house in the town,was competent to vote for Members of Parliament. But, at the same time, this was to the exclusion of villains and strangers, and therefore they formed a particular body in each town. They were possessed of property, and they bore the charges, and of course they were entitled to vote foe the election of Members of Parliament (hm). I say that the great object of this house to get lid of these complicated questions, which arc daily coming before it, will be to give to the real property and real householders of the different cities and towns the right of voting for members of Parliament (haw, hear). Forty seven boroughs, of wden, in 1821, 1 will repeat, the population was under 4,000, it is our in tention to deprive of etotliob more than one member each. (Some laughter, and cries of hear, hear, from all parts of the home.) The boroughs totally tlisfrancliCted will be those which now send 119 mem bers ; 47 will be deprived of sending more titan one member each ; 166 members, with. I again repeat, two from Weymouth, making a total of 163, which we intend to alter. This is the extent we propose to go to. (Much cheering and confusion for a time.) We tin nut in tend to alter the remaining boroughs, hut we intend to abet the eke ' live franchise. Some of them, now, are in the hands of select cor porations; come of them are in the nomination of individuals. This we intend to provide against, and to give the franchise to :pasons pos wadi* iuterest and property in those boroughs. (Hear.) I am aware it is difficult to know to what extent we ought to go. In ancient times, every person residing in a borough and inhabiting a house was com petent to vote, excluding only, as I observed before, villains and strangers. This was the plan we at first proposed, but on consideration we found it confined the privilege very much in some boroughs, fur we ascertained that in some boroughs there were not more titan ten, in others not more than seven, in others not more than three, and in some only one rated at 201. per annum (hesr,pwar). This, therefore, would be confining, Instead of, as is our object, ex tending.the eletive franchise. We, therefore, propose, that the elect dve franchise should he extended to all those who pay rent of 101. per annum. (Hear, hear.) This plan will be carried into effect under cer tain conditions, to be hereafter enumerated. (Hear, hrtr.) We do not intend to deprive the present resident electors of their right to vote, but experience has taught that the right of voting being extended to non-residents, has led to such manifest and manifold evils, that we are determined they shall no longer retain their votes. (Loud cries of hear, hear.) Some voters will come under one class, and some under ano ther • but it is not our intention to deprive any one of the elective franchise during life. I have said that all those occupying houses of ten pounds a year will he entitled to a vote ; we propose to extend the privilege of voting to all copybold property of the value of ten pounds a year for Members of a County. All leaseholders of twenty-one years, which have not been renewed withlu two years, are to have the privilege of voting in towns, and all leaseholders of twenty years. where the property is worth fifty pounds per annum, are to have t h e privilege of voting at county elections. (Hear, hear, hear.) — It will be seen by this statement, that we have thought it expedient to disfranchise 168 seats. But it is not our intention to fill them all up again.—(Cries of " Hear," which lasted for several minutes.) It is our opinion, that the number of members of this House is incunveniendy large. Any member, who recollects this House before the union with Ireland, at which time a hundred members were added, which I will not say was a great evil—wry member who recollects this, and how business was conducted before that time, will also recollect how much more readily it was conducted. It was well known that many members ob. tamed a seat in that house from motives entirely of ambition and the honour it conferred. Every one knew that many did not attend at all, or if they did, it was only a manifest convenience to those who took part in the public business. (Hear, hear.) It was a well known fact that many members have been absent for two or three years together, and other instances are Olt record, where the member, a ft er his ele ction, had never even attended to take the oaths. (Hear.) — Some members only came down to vote away the public money. We therefore propose to make a reduction; and, for the convenience of be. sine's, to cut off several. (Loud cries of No.) We propose that seven large towns, now unrepresented, shall send two members each. We propose that other towns, not represented, shall send one member pch. Of the towns that are to send two members each, I shall now give a list. (The noble lord here proceeded to enumerate them.) — Amongst those to have two members were Manchester and Salford, Leeds, Birmingham Woolwich, Greenwich and Deptford, Wolver hampton, Sheffield, icc. Amongst the towns to have one member each were Brighton, Chichester, North and South Shields, Blackburn, Bed ton, Kidderminster, IVarrington, Wakefield, Halifax, Huddersfield, and some others. To the metropolis and parts adjacent we propose, said the noble lord, to give eight additional members, as there are now nine hun dred thetutand individuals in these districts unrepresented. To the Tower Hamlets, containing n population of two hundred and eighty thousand, we propose to give two members. To the district of Holboru we intend to give two members. To Finsbury and its district, to give two members. To Lambeth. and parts beyond the water. we give another two mem bers. By these means, we make four divisions of the metropolis and in suburbs, to each we give two members. I sin sure, that when the wealth and population of the parish of Mary-le-bone is considered, it will not be thought that we are going too far, if I say that parish is as fully entitled to send two members to Parliament as the borough of Boroughbridge. (Hear, and loud !atwitter.) We therefore propose, that Mary.le.bone shall send two members. Our next object. is to enable large counties to send more representatives. (Hear, heat.) I cannot think that there will be the least objection to this proposition • for this is a plan of Reform that was po.pused in the days of Eari Ch ail and had been advocated ever since. Nothing could be more fai r than that -large counties, in which there was au immense manufacturing population, such as Staffordshire and others—nothing could be more fair than that such counties should have additional members. We therefore 'propose in severer countki to add., two members. The county of York is divided "i nto three ridings, and sends four Members. We intend to give two Members to the other riding, atialtirg in the whole six. The Noble Lord then enume rated several other counties, among which were Lancaster, Snrop shin. Warwickshire, Cumbetlatul, Nonhanipton, Essex, lauftiolk, Sur rey, and Kent. We also propose to give ora additional Member to the Isle of Nright. We have taker into consideration the evil of the peewee system of nomination, and the eainopoly enjoyed by a few indi viduals. This we provide a remedy Readmit. I now proceed te ano. thee part of my measure. It Is to prevent the great expense at 'elec tions where the poll is protracted. We propose the taking of the roll in different pans of the county, and that all electon, either fur counties or towns, shall he registered.—(Hear, hear.) The machinery of this Om will be very simple, at the same time very ne cessary, in order to obtain the names of voters. At a certain period of the wear the churchwardens end the overseen of the parish will be coal. tailed to preduce a list of all those oecupyiog a Monte of 101. a-year. They will be obliged to make a return of this to an officer to he ap. pointed. who will hear all objections and adjudge. When this is gene through, on the Ist of December in every year the list will be published, and every person whose name is on the hat will have a right to vote, without being asked any other question than *hat is necessary to prove . his identity.—(llear, hear) This list will be accessible to all.— (Hear.) I think this regulation will save much expellee and time in deciding on disputed voter. Another evil which we wrote to remedy , is to thurten the duration of palls. We therefore intend that booths shall he erected in different parts of the county, which will materially lower the expense. We consider tic machinery of our plan so simple, , that in all towns the poll may be taken in one day. But considering the disturbances that exists during contested elections, we propose to , extend it to two days, or, if necessary, to four.-(blear. hear, hear.) In counties it will necessarily be wmewlist different. We propose there the churchwarden's list shall he affixed to the doors of every parish church. and in all eases of dispute with that list, a barrister shall be ap. pointed by the Judge of Aube to examine into the question, and his judgment shall be final. Every such list of freeholders, eopyholders, and , ambers, after it has been signed by the barrister, sha ll be sufficient evi dence of the party applying being entitled to vote. Every one knows the enormous expense at present incurred of bringing up voters to the poll. In Yorkshire, for instance, it could not be done for a less expense than from a hundred to a hundred and fifty thousand pounds. In Devoe shire, where the voters were obliged to be conveyed over rugged roads, the expense was equally enormous. (Hear.) These manifold expenses it was intended to do sway with. He, therefore, proposed that the poll shall be taken iadifferent hundreds, and in different places in such bun. r deeds at convenient distances. If this plan is adopted, we think the I whole might be taken in are day t but if any dispute arises about votes, we give power to the officer to adjourn the decision till next day. It shall be so arranged that no voter shall have more than lb voiles to trot. el, at the same time, however, the distance shall be so oentrtred that :here shall not b, st ore than 15 polling placer in a county.-- (War, lisar, hear.) In the. counties to which we propose to give two members. them shall be two divisions. The arrangement of all this oil of course be a matter of some difficulty, and we propose a Coat. native of the Privy 'Council shall be named by his Majesty for the pui. pine of examining the divisions into which the counties may ino.t conveniently be amanged. These Privy Counsellors—(hear. hear.— from Sir Charles Wetherell)—will not be personally responsible fur the performance of this duty. (Hear, hear, bear.) In some of the boroughs the number of electors will be exceedingly small, It is our , intention, therefore, to insert in our bill. that wherever the number of persons rated at 101. shall be below three hundred—the adjoining pa rishes and chapelries shall add to their number. (Hear, bear. bear.) That these are vast and extended powers I pretend not to deny, but his Majesty's Ministers felt that there was an obvious difficulty to he surmounted. In considering the manner in which that difficulty we, to be met, his Majesty's Ministers have felt no small difficulty, and the only guarantee that could be proposed in order to the due perform ance of the high duty that would devolve upon them, would be the known integrity and respectability of the persons to whom Ic should be confided. They shall report to his Majesty, and that report shall he made public . If any hon. member think these power, too exten sive, I will only ask him—granting the importance and the difficulty of the task—granting the object a proper one, and that she business mu.t , be done—l would ask bins to propose another method of doing it ; and I will venture to say, if the method is mere conetitutiohal, more likely to advance the interests of the people. which should he paramount to all other considcrations--his Majesty's Al inieter, waiving their own proposal, will not have the slightest difficulty in al tering it. There is hut one other thing to which, under this head, I shall call the attention of the House. It is proposed that in all those towns to be named to send Mennoets to Parliament, that the property which a min requires that will enable him to vote for the town, will not enable him likewise to vote for the county. So that where the towns have their vote fur proper rcptesentatives chain by thenteeivec they will not interfere with the county representatives and the two clas ses of voters will be kept as di s tinct a s possible. At the same time it is not intended to interfere with the freeholders, who now have that right& towns which send Members to Parliament. I believe I have now concluded all the alterations which it is intended to make with respect to die representation of England. With regard to tbe right of the forty-shilling freeholders, no alteration is intended to be tuck with respect to them, it being considered that that class of voter, were eminently fitted to be entrusted with the elective franchise, hi, Majesty's Government considering that they do, by the smallness of their property, send those Members to Parliament whom it 'meld be most desirable to have. I will now read a list of those borough, which have less than 2,000 inhabitants. (The Noble Lard then read the list, among which were Aldborough, Appleby, Bishops Cas le, Buroughbridge (great cheeriug and laughter), Buckingham, Castle Riding, Corfe Castle, Rye, East Looe, Newport, in the isle of Wight, Plymton, Ry -vete, St. Mawes, Old Sarum, Stockbridge, Wit:. chelsea, Woodstock (loud cries of bear, hear, from Sir Cherie% Wetherell), SVotton ) Barnett , Wareham, and several other places. [ln consequence of the rapid manner in which the noble Lord read over the names, we could not catch them all.) The noble Lori thee read &list of the places which it was Intended only to send one member to Parliament. Among them were Amenham Bewdley, Cocker mouth,Droitwich,East Orinstead,Huntingdon,LeOntinster, Leamington, Marlborough, Northallerton, Richmond, and Sudbury. With regard to the Welch boroughs the only alteration that wax intended to be made was the adding of certain towns to those boroughs which send n em bers to Parliament, and the creating of a new district of boroughs by dividing Swansea and Cardigan, which boroughs are only to return ore Member to Parliament. I come now to the representation of Scotland ; and certainly, if England wants Reform, the same thing must be said. but in a stronger manner, with reference to that country. If we have here close boroughs, we have at the same time popular represen. than, but in Scodand there is nothing like a popular represents tenon. No such thing is there known. The generality of the people of Scotland, comprising the wealth, intelligence, and respectability, are not represented in this House otherwise than his lordanip would ex plain. In the counties there were altogether 2,253 electors, who sp. pear on the roll, but of whom a number are always absent, leaving 2,304 electors. It was not his intention to enter into details as to the manner in which Scotch votes are etligild, it was sufficient for him to say that they were distinct from the land. His lordship held in his hand a return of the different counties ; in one Omni out of 666 electors only 100 had any interest in the land ; in Bute, out of 19 electors. there were but two; in Ross, out of 29 voters, only 18; and in another place, out of 224 electors, only 98 had any beneficial interest in the land. This, therefore, could not be taken to be a fair representation of the land in Scotland. What Government proposed was, that every person who has what is called the dominion of the land to the amours of 101. a year, which will be about equal to an English 101. free holder, shall have a vote at the county election, and also the leaseholder of 99 years of 50L a year. (Chan.) That 22 counties shall return one member; that Edinburgh shall send two members, Glasgow two, and Aberdeen, Paisley, Dundee, and Leith, one member. With the exception of one it was not intended to alter the district of burghs, each that returned one member. Peterhead was, however to take the place of Aberdeen, and Falkirk of Lanark. The qualification would be similar to that in England, being property in the occupation of a house of 101. a year, being registered in a similar manner to England.— With these alterations, fifty members Instead of forty-five will be returned for Scotland. The elections shall be no longer taken as before; by the plan'proposed there shall be no longer de leg ates, but that in eachiparticular borough, the party having the rig ht to vote , should vote—and the gross numbers summed up and taken instead of taking the balance, as it were, of the member of :votes es here tofore. (Hear, hear .) The noble lord then proceeded to the ques inn of Ireland, w here, he said, Reform, although it was necessary, would be much more simple. The election of members for boroughs in !re load was begun at the time of the Union; therefore It appeared there were none of those very decayed boroughs in Ireland, such as were in England. There was, however, th*vil, which had already been pointed out as existing in England, namely, that the elective franchise was not held by a number of persons well qualified to vote fro:n the ex tent of their property. (Hear, hear.) It was proposed, therefore, that the same right to vote should extend to Ireland, as regards the v.lue of property amounting to 101 a year--that that shall give to every a right to vote who =sides in a borough sending members to Parlia ment. (Hear, hear.) The noble to was convinced that this would be found to be of very great benefit to Ireland. There were norm of the boroughs in which the people suffered the greatest inconvenierc from their incapacity of voting. 11e would mention only one isotance an instance which he had brought forward last year—the ce'e of th.• borough of Wexford, where the people being excluded were sub ject to dues to the amount of 2,0001. a year for ceming so the coast of England, which, had they been free of the corporation, thee would nut have been subjected to. His Lordship said he was well satisfied, therefore, that this would enable the people of lie. land to proceed in the cultivation of their trade and industry, which it was so desirable should take place. 'there woold likewise an advantage arise to Scotland and Ireland, from this measure, from a number of Members being cut t3' from this House representing different parts ', of England, whcse places were not to be supplied ; the representa tives of Scotland and Ireland would consequently become of relative importance in comparison to other Members of th e greate r House. ln this respect the measure was calculated, it was hoped, to give great satisfaction to both Ireland and Sendand.— ( Heae.)-- The period of election was to terminate in Ireland within the same time that it was to terminate in England. Hit Lordship then proceeded to illustrate the result of the measure in regard to the num. her of tl.e members altogether. The present number of the members of the house was 658 ; the number proposed to be disfranchised was 168 ; deducting the latter number from the former there remained 490 There was to be added live fur Scotland, three for Ireland, one for Wales, eight for lender), thirty-four for the large towns, and tiftv-fure for the English counties, making in all 106. Th e 10fi being cdt'ed to the 490, will make the number 696. Taking 896 from 668. end there would remain 62. The decrease of the number returned to this house would consequently be 62. (Ilear.) His lordship stated 'hit it was only a rough goes at the ~ u rnber of persons who would be entitled to vote by this bill fir the different boroughs, towns, and counties ; but he supposed that front the towns at prevent repre sented, titers would be about 110,000, for the new towns 8000 for Londen 05,060, for Scotland, 60 000, and for Ireland, perhaps 40.0011. In counties he imagined that 100.000, at least, will to en. titled to vote, under this Bill, who never had the advantage of voting before; and upon the whole he calculated (that the number added to the constituency of the Commons' House of Parliament would he half a million of persons, and half a million of pt Trims. it was to be observed, connected with the property of the country-- (loud cheers)—petsons having in themselves a valuable stake in the country,—interestnl in preserving the property of the country, and upon whom would depend any future struggle this country might imve to sustain to sepport parliament, and to suppert the throne in carry ing that struggle to successful terminination.—The probability of the possession of this franchise would be an inducement to good conduct. When a man found that by his being rated to a certain rent, :mil by paying rates he would be entitled to a vote in the ' ley lion of a member of this house, it would induce him to he careful, andfrugal, and punctual in his dealings. It would be an inductor/et to him to preserve his character amongst his neighbours, and the place which he held in society. ills lordship thought, mat when this large constituency was added, it would provide for the political and motel improvement of the people. Having gone through these different statements, he could not but take notice of certain points with h might be considered defective by those professedly the most jealous of popsy rights. In the tint place, it might be said, there was no provisos for the durutims of Parliament. That question bad been much and arxi ously moldered by his Majesty's present Ministers, and after the fullest consideradon passible, it was thought better so leave it entirely as a cops ass opmetket than to bring it in at the end of a Bill whia the fronehien and other matters totally separate from that question, without albs what was the opinion of Ministers upon that queslon—s reeds* diesel( of the utmost importance. and which de• served the Omen straimitism. It was thought better to pretest the large mnumesed RAMA by lONA and leave the other mestere as to ti lt dunks st isslissaset, ekber to be brought in by some other Member, of I I