Star. — London, England, 1803-12-10 00:00:00

li lt • - • 4 , ,•,•, s • );4,- - ft ,' i il a • I . I W., i i llit • i .O OF . d 4.40:it..: c , •• . • :-)I I 1 I .. • • L. - ;.• 41 `, ' -14. , - ' ) 's i .— ......5 k f...t. W"•.F...1A ..• • * VAP'd `11...N: . . • . , .„, -.• _ . =_- _______ a— - • " NUMBER 4661] SATURDAY, DECEMBER 10, 1803. [PRICE SIX-PENCE. PARLIAMENT4Ar PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF LORDS, FRIDAY, DEC. 9. neceffary ; but at all events I hope, that what I have Rated may be deemed fully fufficient to explain the' grants which it will be neceffary for this Committee to make to his Majefty for the defence of the State. I have alfo eked the addition which it is propofed to make to the eflablifhment of laft year. There is no ellimate for the Foreign Corps which have been raifed, by the authority of Parliament, in various parts of, Europe, for the fervice of this country. I cannot I Rate precifely what the amo un t o f t h o le levies may I I be ; but this (hall certainly be laid before the Hoofs, loon after the period of adjournment. At prefent' they cannot poffibly be included in any eftimate Lid before the Houfe.—The expenditure for the Barrack' ellablifhment is another article not laid before Parlia ment. Not only barracks, but military cantonments, exceed at the prefent moment the amount of chore ever ellablifhed on any former occafion. The whole of the molt effe,live Rrength of the country is at this moment Rationed in barracks. Whenever the nett amount of the whole expellee can be afcertained, as to this point, the eftimate (hall be laid before Parlia ment as early as poffible. I only mention thefe par ticulars, as an Hon. Member lately hinted at them in the Hoare ; and I think it right to fay, that if there be any queltions conneaed with this, or the army at large, I mall be extremely happy in affording every information in my power, as indeed the eltimates will not properly elucidate every queftion which may arife. I have now Rated to the Committee a fubjet which is connated with the moll important interefts of the people,calling forth their energy and exertions; which I am happyto think have been already greatly and laudably snanifelled, by themfelves coming for ward fpontaneoufly in defence of their King and country. It would no doubt be eafy for me to en large upon the immenfe benefit which is derived by I Government in confequence of Inch exertions ; but I "hall ref} fatisfied without entering upon that fubjea, being convinced that every one mull feel, as I do, and fairly appreciate the beneficial refult of fuch ex traordinary and unprecedented ardourandenthufiafm of a people gloated by the pureft motives. I fhall conclude with moving, , 4 that it be the opinion of the Committee, that it is neceffary that the number of 529,039 effeitive men be maintained and fupported by his Majefly, from the 24th day of December 1803, to the 24t h of December 1804." Mr. Wimostase" My opinion of the whole fub jca at iffue is fo very different from that of the Hon. Gentleman who has jull fpoken, that I cannot help riling to make a few obfervations, as his fpeech has tendencies to create tome new ideas. In opening the Army Eflimates, he feems to think that he had little more to do, than by Rating the feveral items, to compare them with thofe of lag year, and en deavour to jußify the prefent increafe. This, I ' Osould think, is a (*ties of jultification, which I ()Rdd not be aazions to hear. It was only necef fary to Rate, that a larger force was thought proper, and to fay in what manner fuch a force was to be created. I have waited, with great impatience, for the difcußion of fuch a &Nee, as I thought it one of the molt important that could poffibly occupy our minds at this critical period. I expeited it to embrace a general view of the defenfire hate of the country, both as it now is, and will hereafter be. On this fubjeft, I am really at a lofs to know whereto commence, or how to prefcribe to myfelf proper li mits to my obfervations. We mull, however, limit our attention, and reflea upon our fituation at the prefent moment, rather than employ our thoughts on the future : in doing this, I think it will be on. pollible not to include many animadverfions on the condo& 0- the Hon. Gentleman who prefides over that particular department. It is therefore, I believe, more prudent to Rate my opinion freely in the out let' which I cannot do more comprehen fi vely, though perhaps fomewhat ludicroufly, than by reciting two lines which were to be met with on many windows. In alluding to the various imperfeaions, both of men and women,two of the lines I allude to fay,that Men bave wany, WOW= have but two, _ _ The Mat Habeas Corpus Sufpenfion and Rebellion Bills were brought up from t►e Commons and read a flrft time. In the Committee upon the Bank Redridlion Bill; __. _ Lord Kim° moved a claufe, requiring the Bank Diredors to return a quarterly account of the number of Bills, iffued by them for each month, ending the asth of each month. This produced a Short converfation. After which the chute was put and negatived. The Earl of litaxtzr aged, whether it was the Intention of His Makfty's Minifters to ►ring in a Bill, previous to the reeds, to explain and amend the Volunteer Laws, upon the following points, viz. the Variety of the Allowances to the different Corps, the Uncertainty of the Exemptions, and the Danger of P.pular Deliberadoos t Lord HAWKMORT urged the difficulty of framing any general law to apply to all cafes, the fcveral corps having been formed opov particular conditions and reitridlions. Here the eonverfatioa ended. Adjourned MI tomorrow (Saturday). - HOUSE OF COMMONS, FRIDAY, DEC .9. The Sr acquainted the Houk, that in conformity to the &woodman' stabs Moida, as the soth of nom* laA, he had re ceived hie Deity's command to acquaint the Houk, that the Thank, of the Hook had been given to all the Yeomanry and Vo• lumen Corps in Great Britain, and alto to the feveral Corps of that defcription in Ireland, who had (hewn fuck promptitude and zeal in coming forward, in defence of their Country,at this critical coojunaure. Mr. Secretary Your precasted a Book, containing the Report of the Return which had been rendered, of the various Volunteer and Yeomanry Corps, whole Cervices have been accepted by his Majeßy, purfuant to the Order of the Houle coo loth of Au aid laR, Co far as it was poMbk to make I; up.—Ordered to lie on the Table. _ _ _ _ _ •RMY Several Bills were read a third time and pared ; but none of the routioc bufincfs of the day poffeffed any particular intereft. rYP 'ar. ata. din• gn .. Tie: pro• a in Ace rife, iara. r Mat Pina .n• as- sir od Is fir I dse bed es le VMS Md. .awl Or agy The SECRETARY at Wee moved the order of the Day for the Houfe to refolve itfelf into a Committee of Supply, in order to enter into the confederation of the expence neceffary to be granted to his Majefly, for the Cervices of the State and the defence of the Kingdom.—The Houfe accordingly went into the Committee ; and The SICIITAIN at WAR (Mr. BRAGGE) adtfrtf fed the Houfe to the following purport 4 , It will sot be neceffary for me to detain the Committee long, in laying before it the various details of the Army Eftimates, as almoft the whole of the fervice has been already under the cognizance of Parliament on va- Timis occafions, and introduced by various modes.— It will be my duty, particularly, to (late in what thefe eftimates differ from thole of laft year. The oftimates which arc at prefent before the Committee, are only ten in number, and of theft I (hall only take particular notice of a few. The firft to which I Sall call die attention of the Committee, is the cepa= of Guards and Garrifons. The amount of this par ticular article was laft year tokootl. and the amount in the prefent eltimate is 260,9451. Though there appears here to be a very confiderable dilerenee, yet Gentlemen muff recollea, that a great part of that addition originates in the great numbers of men railed under the head of the Army of Referve, which circuniftance makes of itfelf an addition of 39.4131. Confiderible augmentations have been alfo made to feveral of the regiments of the line, which make an addition of 52,4561. There arc alfo five Regiments of Tencibles, which make an addition of 5,6351. The Royal African Corps makes an addition 01+,501. Theft two laft mightalfo be reckoned addi tions to our regular army. The next head to which I (ball allude, muff certainly be reckoned a large one. It is the expence of Staff Officers, which is reckoned to amount to 104,6471. The great number of officers whore affiftance is required in training and brigadin the immenfe force of the country, gives, me reaf on to think that the Committee will not be inclined to call this charge unreafonable, when the fubjeft is minutely confidered. The number of Milieu, in England, is 84,000 ; in Scotland, 14.000; and in Ireland, 22,720. The augments. tation for Ireland, confifts of the Irilh Army of Re feree, which is taken at the fum of 4,4151. The eflithates of she Volunteer Corps are divided into two heads—The firft, including thole of Great Bri• ' lain • and the fecond, thole of Ireland. Of thefe, it is impoffible to fay what may be the expence for the enfuing year, but for the time pale the eftimates will be brought foray d. At prefent, it is propofed to vote for the film of 730,0001. As to the article of cloath• ing, that is taken very much into the account in an aggregate manner. It appears from the report given in this day, that the aftual number of Volunteers in Great Britain amounts to no ids than 379.943 men. Thofe coming forward in June are entitled to certain allowances. and thole entering at other dates to others, in fate of their going into aftual fer. vice. Such variations. therefore. render it impoffible to form an aggregate elliniate 730. 0001 . is propofed to be voted. an the fuppofition that the total amount of Volunteersin Great Britain, did not exceed 3 ao,coo. Great part of the clothing having been alreadyprepar. edland furrsifhed this year, confequently that.article is confiderably reduced. The expence of paying per man for to days exercife, was calculated to amount to rao,ocol. which foam, with the various other items, too tedious to enumerate, will make the whole amount to about the fum I have mentioned. With refpeft to the Volunteers of Ireland, the Rate r.f that country makes a confiderable difference in the nature of the lervice, to which they have been already called, and (if we may judge from probable circunr (lance. 4) they may hereafter be called on to perform. The number of !rah Volunteers is calculated con derably under the returns which have been made Ly the proper officers. The total number is (tared to ychooo. The whole of theft Volunteers are I ;.ablc to be called not for no Ids than four months in the year, either for the purpofe of exercife, for keeping internal quiet, or for the purple of guarding againft threatened invarion. The Officers oftliefe Corps re ceive no pay; neither do the men, unlefs on aattal hrvice. Let us fuppofe, that this number of 70,000 men may be incteafed to 94,e00, the probable ex- Pence may be Rated to amount to the fum of 3e.c001. It may, perhaps, be thought, that I have already )nc snore minute); into d etail Om was Olaf There's oothirtips' d they fay, there's Oothing pod they do. —Thefe vertex, bad a% they are, I think are imme diately connected with what is before us. 1 would take fink into confideration the time, and the mate rials which Mining' have had to ad in and upon, the money they hive had to difpofe of, and what, they have a/Nally expended ; and then, upon th e relish, I &could be able to form a judgment of what the Hon. Gentleman has done. Were I to enter into thefe matters very flrialy and very fairly, I &wild commence from the period of the Treaty of Amiens. I thall. however, pats over that period, 'alien they dikharged fo many of their regular forces, .whom they might have retained for a bounty of 5 1. and whom they would. I dare fay, now with to re gain even at a bounty of Sol. —Then was the time, when pieces of ordnance were fold for old iron. which they would now be moil glad to retrieve. We Unall oow pafs on to the tsth or t ilth of March left. when we are to confider the general population of the country, out o( which Minsliers are to create the force neceffary for the defence of the State, and then we ate to confider the expellee. In point of mere bounty, in the army of Referee. or the line, we may fairly fay, they have expended no lets a rum than a million of money I not, indeed railed by Parliament, bin not indeed the better on that account. The ex pellee of every Volunteer to Government. snail be at kat! two pounds, one pound for cloathing. and ano titer for exercife. which, even at the number of 3 ao,ooo men, (their foppofed amount) will far exceed what the Hon. Gentleman has Rated the expence.— In fad, it appears tl me. that there are no lets than three millions adually laid out in huh more than the mete formation of corps. As to the temper and difpofition of the country, I mull fay, that never men bad fu willing a country to ad upon t the people only waited the fignal. Whether it was that they were afraid to dillurb the holders of Onsniuns, or what they were afraid of, I know hot, bat certain it is. that Miaillers loon frond they had no on:e ke to call an one iactividssl co corns &mak.- they found, that they had no fooner funk the well, than the water not only made its appear-once plentifully, but was even likely to deluge them— (a laugh)—ln Short, I may fay, that Milliners fonn experienced, that they had no fooner turned the cock, than it fpurted in their eyes (a laugh). They may now reckon a force of soo,ooo ; a force, the very name of which might be thought Sufficient to frighten to naparte with all his legions. Let us confider, how ever, how much of this nominal force is real and , fond rnafonry, or a (Landing force to the country; and how much of it may be looked on as merely lath and planer (a laugh) ; or how much of it is ufeful for various purpoles ? When we talk of this immenfe force, we are not furely to underftand that the whole of it is equal to French, Hanoverian, Auftrian, Heffian, or other continental armies of warlike nations. We may reckon 70,000 Militia, all good and very refpec table; there are 10,000 of the Army of Referve not raifed at all ; and 6,000 that remains unattached = Alt this is out of the a c,ooo wh o w er e t o b e raifiallf Great Britain. There are then, I believe, s,OOO who have entered into the regular army, bin, taking thefe and other circumllances into confideration, the real effeElive force will loon be confiderably reduced.— The addition they have got to the regular army, feems only to be s,OOO, or, as the Hon. Gentleman hates, 76,000 men, out of the Army of Referve. It neceffarily followed, that from the Army of Referve recruits alone could be procured, as Minifters had ef fedually put a hop to all ordinary modes of recruit ing. As to the Militia, it was brought formerly to great perfection, poffeffing every qualification which troops could have, Short of regular fervice. Part of the Army of Referve, may, perhaps, be good, but a great part of it is bad, and not worthy the money expended in railing it. What I may fay of Volun teers, does not relate to them perfonally, or individu ally, but to the fynem in general, takenindifcriminately. I certainly cannot fay that they are a people who are lame, or maimed, or even loch as would run away ; on the contrary, I muff own, that no people can have a greater zeal and intereft in the country, or in the caufe they are engaged in than thefe Corps ; but I can never approve of Minifters railing this force, in preference to, and in prevention of - their railing their Army of Referve. We cannot, indeed, have a body of upwards of 670,000 men, without their being atteaded with fome beneficial effects; but, in the prefent cafe, every thing appears to be done which can be done: they have pdt the people of the country into fnch a Rate, that they cannot now be of more ufe. cry of " hear P') I ftill molt argue, that nothing is foForopletely falfc as the whole of that fyftem. I now perceive the intention of his Majefty's regulation, that the corps muff all be dreffed in red. It thews what was meant to be done front the begin ning: fir* to rail, them into regiments, and then ' form them into brigades with the regular regiments. I aver that furl an isle cannot be made of thofe peo ple. Yon muff not look at their zeal and difpofition, nor even at their phyfical power, though flrong, , young, and alive men. We muff look to their fitu ation in civil focicty, and then we Shall find that they are men incapable of being emptdyed • in Such a manner. It is no reproach to a man that he has a wife and family to attend to; it is no reproach that he cannot quit his betfinefs without raining bimfelf and his family. If we join Such Corps with the re gulars, we lofe the benefit of the whole. Men will, no doubt, be willing to put themfelves to trouble for a Short time, and even to expence, but can it be thought expedient to fe l :: fo many wives and children a borthen to the peril); ? No, furely, and s therefore we never can give thefe men that fort of training which would be necefary to enable them to as with troops of the line. Let us take an illaftra don in regard to the fea-fervice. Wby does a fri gate never overcome a Ship of the line in an engage ment? Is it becaufe the force-of the guns has not been fufficient ? It may be on account of various deficiencies : a Ship in aiaion requires a balance of parts. It is the fame thing with a regiment .f the line, if not equal in all its parts, officers would fay that they could sot make de of them. They Should' have been kept as an armed body at home, ready to ad by themfelves upon an emergency, and to annoy the enemy as far as their zeal could carry them.— That excellent Officer, General Burgoyne, experien ced the effects of having Such troops Served up, as it were, hot and hot. But, Sir, thcfe are not my only objections to the Volunteer fytiem. I have objections of infinitely greater importance to Submit to you. It is the civil and political effects which mull inevitably refult from it ; it is the danger of a debating milita ry corps, divided into Committees and Sob-commit tees, commanding their officers, in molt inftances, and calbicring them in many. Cooftituted as the Volun teer fyttem is at prefent, it would perhaps not be unavoidable, on the part of Government, to make as little ufe of it as poffible. In refpea of another of the meafures- of defence employed by Adminiftra don, if I follow the method of an ancient philofo pber. and divide it into animate and inanimate in- Rruments, or military works, I have much conk indeed for ferious inculpation. I do not mean at prefent to allude to the works at Chelmsford, the lines at Chatham, or the lines elfewhere I.—nor do I mean to difcnfs their projea of drawing a line of eircumvallation of ag miles sound the metropolis;— approving of fuch a project one day, rejecting it a few days after, and within a few weeks of Cush rcje, Lion, actually giving orders for its execution. But Sir, there is a part of this Country, which I mull I may be permitted to fay (without the imputation of difclofing any thing that Should be concealed) is extremely open and vulnerable, I mean the coati of Suffolk, Comb of Yarmouth, and down to the coati of Mex, the latter, perhaps, the moll expofed part of the kingdom. What meafures, what precautions have the Government employed for the protection of this part of the Mend? Perhaps they rely on the circomftance of its proximity to the naval Ration at Yarmouth, or to that of the Nore, if the latter can be called one. I adage that is i. itapotfible to de fend fuch an extent of country by redoubts, manned by a fess , troops, who feel that they cannot maintain them ; that they mull he driven outof them,and there • fore wouWnaturally refire after firing a round or two. But has the Hon. Secrttary at war never read or heard of the hitiory of the Martello Towers ? If not, I will tell him, that a Britilb feventy-four gun (hip, commanded by as brave a feaman as ever lie. ed, lay for two hours within a quarter of a mik f one of thofe towers, defended only by one gun and half a dozen men, and that at lat he was obliged to haul off, and give rap the conteß with the loft of near fifty men. Why, Sir, has not the Hon. Secre tary, or thole with whom he alts, reforted to this fyilem of defence ? Againß cavalry or infantry, its effeas would be incalculable. The expence is incon fiderable, not above a thoufand pounds for each tower ; and furely thirty or forty thoufand pounds is a mere trifle in our fcale of expenditure. Inflead of this, what have the Government done ? They have recurred to the principle of Sea Fencibles, they have armed a parcel of fiffiermen on the coati with pikes I for the pike (as the Hon Gentlemen has officially told us) is a formidable weapon in the hands of a bold and noble Briton. Sir, this mode of defence but ill accords with my ideas of a bold and noble Briton ; it is not conliflent with that impreffion which I have of the gallantry of my countrymen : it conveys to my mind the idea of Moller Fribble in ,the play, pulhing off the enemy with bodkins and knitting needles. I will not deny, Sir, that the em ployment of the Sea Fencibles may be feful in many inflances, but I can never admit that the defence of the coat ihould be in a great meafure left to them, and that they are to fuperfede the neceffity of a more effeaual and regular fyftem of fortification. There has been, on the part of Government, an error, an overfight, or an incapacity in their management and arrangement of the national defence, which cannot be too much reprobated, or too Coon correaed. They tate ailed with a niggardly parfimony unbecoming a great country; and there has been a difpofition to draw money from the pockets of individuals, without the knowledge of Parliament. Contrafting it with the profufitfn of their expenditure on molt other occa. lions, I can compare it to nothing but the ridiculous and inconfinent behaviour of a man, who ['mold in. vite his friends to a great dinner, where all the deli cacies of the feafon were ferved up—fruits, game and peas at a guinea a quart—and yet grudges,fole Asti a ckari talk dab. There is another part of the fyftem of defence, which has been mot lamentably negkeed. I mean that which relates to the eftabliniment of fignals. Sir, in the county to which I have the ho. flour to belong, for near eight months, no attempt, at leaft no general effort, was made, to eilablilh that fyftem oicommunication, upon which, perhaps, the fakty of that part of the canary was principally to depend. No man blew whole duty it was. The Deputy Lieutenants would not do it becaufo they were not fore of being reimburfed by the county : the county could not do it, becaufe no orden had been ifued to that effea by the Lord Lieutenant ; fo that at left Come fpirited indivi. duals undertook it, with the hope that they &add be reimburfed from Come quarter or other. This is a Ingle& in my eyes, of a molt unpardonable nature. One would fuppole that this part of a de. fenfive fyftem would be one of rite firlt that would occupy the attention of a fagacious adminiftration g that a code or plea of fignals, both naval and anti rary. would be one of their firft operations, ailing in the latter inftance by a number of radii, with a cen trical point of communication. No, Sir, nothing of the kind occupied their 'attention ; at INA I am war. ranted in Paying Co, if I May be allowed to judge from the circumllance that the whole coat was no. provided in this refpea, and that which might have been efeited in three weeks, remained for nearly eight months unaccomplifhed. They appear to me, Sir, to have placed all their reliance upon our line of cruisers, upon the vigilance Jand aitivity of thole brave men to whom the country cannot be too _grate. ful ; or, as it has been laid by a Noble Lord upon Come other occafion, they have placed only a plank between us and the greateft poffible danger. If this be our canal Rate, let us now look a little to oar probable future condition, and to the conftitu. tion of the force which the Host. Gentleman fermi de firous to create. I know not to what arrangement or ezpeaation he confides for the recruiting olehe army hereafter. Solely he cannot look to the Volunteer fyftem as a lirresotiol flora, or any thing better than an ariificid rafts& The Volunteer fyffem. I repeat it, is worn out ; it cannot go on much longer. It has radical defeBs, which mutt weaken and de. • tlroy it fooner or later. Ido not allude merely to that monftrous incongruity, fo prevalent in it. of miffing and fining by the authority of individuals. or giving that power to Committees. No, Bir. it is not merely to this vice, unconflitutional as it is, that I principally refer, but it is to the drat that it has upon all the other parts of our militarrfyfiem. The Volunteers rob the Militia, and the Militia rob.the Army. A difpolable force we mutt have, if we mean to outlive this trills ; if we wills not to, I won't fay petals, but if we with even to enfure any thing like probable laity, even that fpecies of fafety sr Mar the Government regards as the utmoft bowode of their horizon, and beyond which all is clouds and Jar kite& Now, Sir, what does this difpolable fora amount tot Why, after all the State cookery, after fiewing down pounds of beef, with dooms of chkkene, a ham, and other ingredients, it turns out that the regalar army has only acquired an addition of Si thoufand men to the former elablithment. It h iss pothbie, Sir. that a confiderabie efficient force eas e As the recruiting fyflem (lands at prefent. be collated within any rearonable time. No, Sir, if you with to render your army efficient, you muft totally abolifh the practice of fubtlitution. Let a find fine in lieu thereof be paid into the corers of the State. and let the Government recruit the men without hating any competitors in the market. There is alto an. other chop is the pT;ncipis of mtrifigi