Star. — London, England, 1817-01-09 00:00:00

- I ;: tion for education in the kingdom. The arias in subordination was a subject generally to be lamented, because it was stated in the official Reports, and all the rest were fair inferences from these allegations. Let all the particulars and dates be laid before thi Court. Patents might well complain of being com pelled to send their children where they might think, though perhaps only think, their morals might be corrupted, and might propose to get them educated under their own care, to the proper degree of profi. ciency ; but, they might justly say. " we will not let them be where vice is familiarly talked of, to say no more of it." The t.ttned Gentleman concluded with stating, that bethould name this day fortnight for the discussion of the question. Mr. LowN es was of opinion that:the Court did what was never done by any other Institution. They rewarded men before they knew whether they de. served it or not, and therefore their conduct was net to be wondered at. It could hardly be believed, that Writerships were given them in many instances be fore, and very often as soon as they got there. It was not so at our Uoivereities, where rewards de pmded upon talents and good conduct; and the University Regulations ought to be followed at this Institution, where the young men ought to be re warded when they had proved themselves deserving, sad sot before.—( dpitlawas.)—He did not know whe cher what he heard was meant for approbation or .disapprobation t but he always went plainly to work; be never beat about the bush, but always poked his stick into it.—( Mack lot bra.)—As long as Writer . ships were given before it was known that they were . deemed, temptations to misconduct were thrown out. Hp thought this point was worthy of the deepest con sideration of the Court. The CHAWMAN rose to order. He did not con ceive that the observances of the wor th y Proprietor bate upon the questi on then under discussion. Mr. Lamas—Not bear upon the question 1 Yes, they bear fully on the question, bur they are °Nee , tionabk behind the Bar, because they bear upon a very_teeder paw— ( 4 ls4i, del eceelag). abs Casammar—The College at Haylebury af brad tai the &edam a course of *bad= specified ball as to dine.aod attainments, and stolen they gave the test of their proficiency, the Court of Directors did not pea* them so depart for India. .144 Lowman begged in reply to state, that it was @Rarely anew regulition which precluded Scathes, whit bad sot peeved their. Cel i tse qualificatiap. frogs proceeding t , I Mr. Rama stated, 'haves. Is. as 1811, Wean were appointed to Indisowbabod never finished their course at the Hertford Collor. With respect to the periods when the insubordinate= prevailed there, be was ambled to say, that within the last Mesa months the Stakes bad exemplified great and flagrant dis tressed - of the regulations and discipline of the Semi, lay. What better authority could the Court have *en 'the very statement of the Learned Professor bbaself (Mr. Malthus), who had stood most promi see)* forward in the defence of the Collep, when be eves admitted, that he was estonished bow that Institution bad been able to get at at all. Most bappY Would be (Mr. Home) feel, should a full and Witt insestiptiosof the subject enable that lasdtu- Ilea to relieve itself from the bad opinion which the Yee mind entertained of it. For his own part, be 4 founded bladoetwicdoa cm facts, sod facts Sibiu; sod en their sodsootiaity be would embrace the mess VlSscrutiny. BWIAIAVAT wished to guard the Coat from oily further ma repprresentation, by reading the clause la the Act of t, which interdicted Ban In dia Writers from proceetras i z e lndia before they were duly emend c at the of Hertford, had sawed four terms, and had wceived from the bead Wilma a certificate of their !swag complied with Its rules and molations. Thatanactasat could not be dispensed b. neither was it imperative on the Professors to sive the Certificate, anises• they were convinced of us being deserved. Mr. Hums, in explanatioe, desired to state, that Writers not educated at Haylebury, bad been sent out to India previously to the Act of 1814. He bad, by accident, with him a letter on that very subject, acquainting him that Gentlemen of the names of Parker, Phillips, and Thomil.4d obtained such , situations, without any prelitniti educatioa at the College. - Mr. Pommy (Ex.Direttor) &dared himself per fatly indiffizent whether the Resolution for the pro duce= of the Papers was acceded to or not. If the cal** was to be at all discussed, and of the policy im cf discussion be was persuaded, he should ra dor per that the last seams of the Resolution *o be withdrawn, and that no latitude whatever efreald be allowed to the discretion of she Court of axon. Should the Resolution, accompanied wish hs restrictions, be acquiesced in, it would most peabably be asserted hereafter, that some important . document, calculated to elucidate the 'object truly, bad been' withheld from the consideration of the Court of Proprietors. lf, therefore, discussion ost this most delicate subject was advisable, it was his conviction that every document ought to be 'before than, stn order to lead to a strict and comprehensive frreamiation. Still be most eautead.that it was the better policy to mative the Resells* altogether. The evil, of which such great COOptaint was now • made, had gone by —fifties moods bad aired due say symptoms of insubordination bad appeared,. The pupils guilty of misconduct at that paled had been punished. and the well-timed correction bad produced in the discipline Of the College the meet :slaw dies. The storm was over, the vessel bad sighted itself, and was proceeding tenably to her destination, when two men 4 the Piper of that room, like' the Conjeror is lb Firepera, bad dam &ermined to raise a storm of their: t w s g d fleentifrer). O n Upon th eir own of they •upon the • Coots of Peoptittors as 11111eie that bid mad to oporptis. and an y =CI votikk, is plus of gm Ind* Ytty o, aissassogritga ♦ to ilk omit admit Mile • - A 111 0. " • Liss wee et isY Pea h 'dos ausumeake that peeking did min. arm Wawa; wh in rem we Willa reediest hisbet doe the hese stealemau-leires shoe lemma Seisesediam Es did = i eser Ideas we lasedidassessissd sheir se at Id* CAW 407 swing eitmaiitti*, bit is void ash Ask • were there not some donor in all schools ?..-1001e examples in all Colleges, of indiliduals on whom discipline and education mold produce no desirable effect? The latest accounts from Bengal had borne testimony to the utility. of the course of education at Haleybury. Young men educated there had, by their appointment to high and important offices. placed its character and capability beyond all ques tion. When every present appearance promised fair, when the halcyon was on the waters, was it prudent to disturb them ? Mr. RANDLF, JAcnow sincerely trusted that the Court would not allow itself to be led astray from its proper direction by the seemine candour of the last Speaker. He knew his worthy Friend (Mr. Home) too well to believe for a moment that he could be warped from pressing his Resolution in its present shape by such an endeavour. • The policy of the Ex- Director was to strip that Resolution of its only cau tionary provision, and in so doing, to make it ob noxious to all parties. He would not assume the liberty of descanting upon the place or the system of his worthy friend's (Mr. Hume's). education i and who in that assembly did not feel its powerful in fluence! Neither would be say, after what had talks from the worthy Ex-Director. who was the real Con juror. But he hoped the spirit evinced that day, and so unusual in thatCoort, would be speedily exorcised. Was it to be tolerated in as assembly such as be then addressed, that any man should presume depre ciate, in terms of coarse 'phraseology, individuals of some rank amoopt their fellow aims; wipe proud distinction it was, as he trusted it should ever be, to deem themselves with singleness of heart in defence of the interests, the well.baine, and the dig. nity of the India Company?-4(lree, lean) So long as be was entitled to the rights of a Proprietor and felt th e impulse wbicb regulated the, intercosjse of Gentlemen, so 104 would he protest against the un.. bet:inning aggression upon both. language, such as had been used, and applicatithte, such es was ap. plied to ' men in a corner of that room." neither corresponded with the 'character of the nmbly to which it was addressed, snit conferred any dignity on the source whence it proceeded. lb would ever deny that he bad on the former discussion in-' ,thalged in any indiscriminate allegations of charge: the - facts be had adverted to ware illustrated in the Reports of the Court of 'Directors; and if the whole case was not yet before the Priprietors, no motion ,could be better framed to effect that object than the Resolution then submitted. as there could be none more entitled to their unanitpou, voncurrence. Un der a similar impression, he trusted his worthy friend (Mr. Home) would reject the tendered gifts of the worthy Ez-Director (Mr. Patrison). that he would p . msevere in his proposition with its cautionary pro vision, and not be trepanned by the artifice of making it palatable to one,• with the risk of making it ob. noxious to all. With regard .to the Institution at' Hertford, be was persuaded that no men ought to feel more solicitous for the strictest and most compre hensive inquiry than the Professors themselves. Every thing that had heretofore transpired on that subject must in them increase that solicitude. At the same time he resold declare his fullest conviction, that the more inquisitive the scrutiny, the purer would these Gentlemen emerge from the ordeal. Mr. S. Drupe was anxious to impress on the Court, that if improvement had actually been pro gressive lately in the Institution, it would be as act of positive injustice not to afford the Professors their advocates, endives the students the fullestopportu-. airy of vindicating themseiva. That could only be effected by a full my*, into the general merits of the question. taking a reasonable period, say within the last two years, for the criterion. Mr. PArrisost defied those who arraigned his ob servations to state say instance where his opposition to their views was not founded on principle, and was not expressed to their face. anintimidated by their talents. He could net altogether 'reconcile the warmth of feeling with which every observation against their conduct was met, with the indiscrind. nate imputations in which they themselves indulged against the whole body of the College Committee, in { terms (be was 'Wpm slim to say) of coarse Owasso logy Mr. P. Moon observed, that in the early part of ithe debate be had given, in coneite terms, his (pink* wn , the gond= before them. Al*, the understood. &dins, that the general merits 'Of the question re• span the Hayleybory Institution would be dis .cussed at a future day, he could not help considering the present discussion as a debate in atiticipation.— When the proper doe should arriVe, his opposition . should go far beyond the practical demerits of that systein. He was as opposed to the principle now as when first the "motion was introduced. years ago. Still he feared these was something is mask—some. thing below the swim ; and therefore be could not approve the lieseindon that called for all the does. meats, at the mama dam that it was accompanied with a restriction dials die end might am omit to s sanadL It was possible that in the practies of the Hertford College, there were some insroptieties. He had educated. sada his oWn supervision, his sons at Welt. , Minster College. • Daring the peeled five 'ebonies, had taken pram-wren is that respnaable semiamy bat the discipline dim was camativeld7 mould t led to great and Madnued inirsovemont. Simi effects might be pyodatied in the prudes it Haley. bury, but to judging of the true question, the Coon' must:direct its ampr to great and Commanding Fincgiss•—et the specified period be would fully press his objectioos. After a few words in upload= from Mr. R. Guar and Mr. 6. Dixon, Mr. Lowanci observed, that unless the Court PT ported the motion before them,. they wed deprive themselves or the cab chance of getting information do the College, which they possessed. He had been at the Colley about three months, and be should Waco what was thin told to bins, that so little subor dination was there among the young moo, that a row was s mected oh the 6th of November , is.they were to let of, squibs and amine in the area of the balding, by; which the rest of k.Saiglit be sada., He should expect, if sot. kids ehedielkes at from gradtsde, other conduct on the part at dila men ire whom such profitable situatioas were intended. ilk. flow n r ad to date, that if there was any pore at ihs of his modes, which was object tieseble, be net feel any diewitisfeedon m sinning it. Hi object was it is fonsation, and in rain this, be wished u noels es possible to abed the Gentleinei within and wisbiut the bar. The CUuasu►V said, that from As best view which be toot of the question, and the belief that it would do more harm than good. he thought that no alteration would make it agreeable, and he firmly hoped it would not be carried. Mr. Janus was of opinion that the information sought for should not go farther back than the date of the Act of Parliament, which placed the College on a new foundation in some degree. He would, therefore, propose, as an amendment, that the in quiry should not go farther back than the period to which be alluded. The young men.who werirlately sent out from the College had distinguisheri.them selVes considerably much to their own credit, and the character of the College. One Gentleman (Mr. P. Moore) had mid that has objection went to the foun dation itself—he (Mr. Inglis) begged ()idiot Gentle man to consider what was the conduct of the young men in general who were sent out from the College. It bad been such as reflected great honour on them selves, and on the system of their education. It was true there might among so many be some who were not so 6t for the Company's service as others, but that was no argument against the Establishment. — He should, in giving his vote, object to the motion altogether, but particularly to that past of it which went farther back for inquiry than the date-of the Act of Parliament. He regretted that ha had not been present on the day when this subject was first introduced, or he should have opposed it as kola, for he conceived that a great deal of mischief had been done by the allegattons made, which bad al ready so far misled the public. Mr. Hums then consented to alter his motion as the last speaker had suggested. He observed, that in 1811 twenty young men left the College of Cal cutta fit for bus iness : that of these twelve were from the College at Hertford, and eight were not. The average of the time which they were in the College fitting for business, was ten months, or two years, and ten mootha in all, and the average of the time taken to prepare those young men who were not from Hertford was three years, one month, and seven days. In 1815 eighteen young men were sent oat, the average of whose whole preparation was three years and a half, which was something more than the time taken by those who had not come from the College. The Cueutawr observed, that the conduct and abilities of the young men sent out from the College at Hertford were, in general, the subject of commen dation: to prove which he read an extract fro* the speech of lord Minto, on the conduct of the" Hert ford Students who were sent. In this his Lordship said- 6 4 that they (the Students from Hertford) stood honourably distinguished for regular attendance, for obedience to the statutes and discipline of the Col lege for moderation in expense, and, consequently, .' an the amount of their debts, and, in a word, for those decencies of conduct which denote men well born, and characters well trained." Mr. Inoue explained. Mr. S. Meow would give his 'import to the motion as amended. After a short conversation between Mr. ELPHIN. nous. Mr. Hume, Mr. JACICSON, and the CHAIR• nut, the question was pot, and they declared it was carried in the ,mire. Several Members then got up to go away, and some bad actually left the Court, when the CHAJSUA3II begged to correct a mis take into which he had fallen in announcing the de cision. He had said it was carried in the ajavrative, whereu be should have said the Maim This pro doted a strong sensation in the Court, and some (Mr. Lowndes among others) warmly 'insisted that the question bed been carried in the alfrovirtive by a ma jority of at least two or three.. I The CHAIRMAN declared that the question had been negatived by the majetity, but that it could not be very material to either side of the question, as none had gone out of the Court ; or if there were any, they mast, before they went, have heard him correct his =Wake with regard to the decision.—CThe time itibish elapsed between the Chairman's mistake and his correction of it was not half a minute.] .fkrangers were then ordered to withdraw, but no division took place; for after a short conversation, in which Mr. Hone wished to withdraw his motion and reserve it for future discussion, the question was again pat and carried without a division. The Court then adjourned. 1 A ballot was taken yesterday at the India House, for the purpose of determining the following question, vises.-- 41 That Mr. Gnome Tenn.'', late of the Ben- Civil Establishment, be permitted to return to with such tank in the Company's service as he be entitled to, under the provisions of the Act of the SW Geo. 111. cap. 19.5, sec. 8.5 ?"—Ai els o'clock the glasses were closed and delivered to the *until:eery, who reported the question to be car. tied in the affirmative. . Captain T. M'Taoaaar was sworn into the com ma of t h e ship Rose, for Madras and Bengal. • DlVinanas, when received, should be immediately 1 em yed to advantage..—Thys it is tlue_PssoritaTz. olataa." The- folloiiiing Scale, shewing how this ANTAL of Stock - holders may Ips 611gmented by ez f tc t pending rely aprOsi if their Diviikstit, may not be deemed inapp li cable at the present moment. Maui. Consols. 447 16 0 sal probes atie,obo . o equal to 468,000 ASS IS 0 maypoles, icsime 0 equal to 834,000 412 T 0 way prod's. 410,500 -0 equal to 417,000 AS S 0 map premises 43,130 o alai to 89,500 . 411 3 I may probe* 41,123 0 equal to 44,250 11 110 0 may predate 41,21210 equal to 42,1115 If is to the present Lottery the above refers,—the &Muse of which bas met with such universal appro bation. It contains Two Grand Prizes of 20,000 Guineas, savour& of Farty oder Catrilak, with only 12,000 Tickehs the . value of the Small Prizes is in creased, As:eking 800 if 25 daises: each, and none lower their dirll6 sad dm yin& will Its paid in Strike -ffiattp..—Mit-Drawing will'commence. on Tuesday, the !fetid . this Wash (January) ; and such Persons as have not Dividends to receive at preseisi, should *Ant i that ere this Month arrive again, they may, • nersocheint 4. Air stopfrflooos mignon:, Man. .iemsslres a Ammo of an independent funded pro pad be cabled to mingle in the throng of ecieseleances, which are issuing mg day eel Doak of &eta =Ol. THE EVENING STALL LO N DON. THURSDAY, JANUARY 9, 1817. PRICE OF STOCKS THIS DAY AT TWELVE O'CLOCK, Redo. 64,1—Comma 6463—Cons. for opg. 63 4 per Cent 7911-5 per Cent. Navy 9411 Ezesequer Bah, 115.151.pr.--10dia Bomb, 2k. 354. FRENCH PAPERS. The Mail of this morning has brought tts Paperkof4he 4th, sth, and 6th instant. The cause of Representation has triumphed. Af ter two further adjournments of the discussion on es Law of Election, the two first articles of the pre: tz of Ministers have been carried by a great anti 6, tinguished majority. By the first of these 4 1 Frenchmen who are thirty years of age, and pay Sog francs of taxes per annum, are to be allowed to so y in the choice of the Deputies—and by the wow, the mode of computing she amount of lazes peid i. regulated. The only other article of impartaset which remains to be voted is that which proposes Is make the Election by one degree, instead of two ; but from the near unanimity with which At first article bas been carried, we entertain ots &Mai whatever that Ministers will be successful i 6 catfying 1 that she. The excellence of this project of the Farah liters we have formerly pointed out,—its eimpfie4y its comprehensiveness—its integrity. la a t tical point of view, perhaps, we should be &spend r think the qualifications required mmeeessarfly higb but it will be remembered that the present is ace question on the theory of Repreeentatiee—bstnierel a question as to the application and develops' of an existing law oo the subject. The Charter ordained that all who concur in the election of peaks shall be possessed of these qualifications ; it goes no farther—it neither declares that a possess the capacity of electing shall be called t to exercise it. nor fixes in what manner those wi are to be * s led shall proceed in their election. T regokiNn they of these subordinate points was 3 that camimpithin the compass of the pries is 4/i vbi has been :so much the subject of discussion ; as certainly, it most be allowed that in giving, as ifui stets have done, the utmost latitude to the of the Charter—in admitting dl to the right of elec dna whom -the Charter has declared capable ci electing—and preserving the right of all pure and entire, by securing to them the direct and immediate election of the Deputies—they have evinced an incli. nktion towards a more general and free represent.. tion of the people, which is deserving of every prz:Je. They have drawn from the Charter tall that it cm tains in favour of liberty, without trespassing t: e limits which it prescribes—they have given r 3 ux Representative System all the extension, all the farce, which the Charter permits it to take—they hue assured to the Chamber all the weight and respecta bility which, under existing circumstances, can belong to it—and have, in fine, added to the strength of zh:: Government itself, in place of disturbing its prop's by the intervention of a set of Electoral Assemb!iN alike treacherous to public liberty, and dangerous to public order. PARIS, JANUARY S. His MAJeSTY continues to enjoy hit usual stare of health, and so hear Mass in his apartments. His Ma nner precided over a Council of Ministers on Friday. The Commission of Finance is said to have already made great progress in its labours. MI the princi• pal points are settled. The Commission has diviJ , .l its work into` two parts, the Receipt and the Evto diture. M. Btugnot. has been named as Reporter on the first part, and M. Roy on the second. CHAMBER OF DEPUTIIiS. SITTING OF THE 2D OF JANUARY. The discussion concerning the Elections was re :tuned. M. BLANQUART-BAILLEUL supported the project of the Ministers, declaring it conformable to the Charter, to reason, and to justice ; and in adopting it, the purpose of the Charter will be fulfilled, in uniting as electors all the large proprietors, and persons inte rested in the maintenance of public tranquillity, as well as all the warriors, at once celebrated for their great glory and their great misfortunes. M. LAINE, Minister of the Interior.— ,, Ministers have been accused of seeking to sacrifice one class col another:. we have entered into,no conspiracy against any class: we hav, Liken as our guides, fidelity to the King, the happiness of France, Virtue and I+ `nour. The essential principle of the project is I lid down ht the Charter : the words to s assemble t4,c• then,' (concturir) embrace those who take a cl , rtct part, as well as they who take an indircct part. 7 rx law has wished to employ the verb in general, for Ai those who are called in ore manner or another. At to the allegation that the electors will sell 01(.4 you& such baseness does not belong to Ft enchareo. 1 1 . c law creates a grand electoral corps, which will re duce men attached to their country—men who rat if necessary, place themselves in the front of 4 3 Witat will they, who propsse to reject t le law, subskiStge in its place ? What the Cll.O ti r !Lis expressed, hasrin the present law been followeJ." His Excellency concluded a long speech in thil,;:pg that the Chamber ought to adopt the project, as p' e' seated by the Ministers. The discourse of the Minister made a lively irD . preuioa upon the assembly. Several Members proposed the discoatinuanc, 11 '