Star. — London, England, 1821-08-22 00:00:00

.`.V % ~ f. .% • J. • ' . 11 „j o i, -qtAgleitit r ibiZNV: Q UES T ON R. lIONEY. FOURTH DAY, TUESDAY, AUGUST ea. As we noticed in our last report, the Jury on its rising on Monday night, was adjourned to the lute Horse Inn, at Knightsbridge, at one o'clock. It was the intention of the Jury t o have proceeded from this place, accompanied by the Coroner, to the Barracks, there to be present at the i n spection of the troops by the witnesses. At one o'clock several of the Jury had arrived, and very soon after that hour the whole of them were assembled. It was, however, within a few minutes of two before the Coroner made his ap pearance. The Jury, afraid of being delayed beyond the hour appointed for the inspection of the troops, n bad, before the Coroner's arrival, ag reed to adjour from the White Horse t o the Rose and Crown, and a notice to that effect was posted up outside the door of the former place. Bef ore the Jury acted upon this determination the Coroner arrived, and preceded by him the Jury went down towards the Barracks. We should here observe , t hat some time before this the gates of the Barrack -yard were closed, and prepara tions had commenced within for drawing up the troops. Several of the witnesses were already in at tendance, and waited opposite the gates with their tickets of admission. Mr. Alderman 'WAITHMAN, Sir RICHARD PHILLIPS, and some other Gentlemen, who have been present at the Inquest every day, were also in attendance; but it was not the intention of any of them to seek for admission within the Barrack-yard. At two o'clock the Jury, preceded by their Foreman and the Coroner, went to the gates. On knocking for admission one of the gates was opened, and some few words passed between the soldier by whom it was guarded. What these words were we were not near enough to hear ; but immediately after the door was closed, and the Coroner and Jury proceeded to a small door leading to the Barrack-yard. There the Coroner having knocked, the door was opened by a dragoon, who demanded his business. The Coroner told him that the Jury which had sat to ascertain the cause of the death of It. Honey were in attendance, and requested to be admitted to see the inspection of the troops by the witnesses, and desired him to take a message to this effect to his Commanding Officer. —The dragoon shut the door, and after a short pause it was again opened, when an Officer made his ap pearance a little way within the gate. Addressing himself first to the soldier near him, he said, " The Coroner must wait a little;" but perceiving the Coro ner standing in the door-way, he observed, very po litely, " You must wait for a short tiras Sir." The door was again closed, and in a few moments was re-opened. The sentinel again presented himself, and asked the Coroner whether he had a ticket of admission ? The Coroner replied, " Why I give the tickets." Upon this the door was again closed, and in the interim some of the Jury suggested that they should get tickets. Some tickets were given to them, which, on again demanding admission, they pre sented. The Coroner then entered, and was followed by several of the Jury. Some, on being admitted, presented their cards; others had none to present. The Officer who stood inside, seeing several of the Jury coming in at the same time, said to the sentinel, " None must be admitted who have not tickets, and must conic in one by one." Those Gentlemen of the Jury who stood in front, some with and some with out tickets, were here most rudely pushed back by two or three dragoons ; but not appearing to retreat as quickly as was expected, an Officer said, in a harsh and menacing tone, " Soldiers, do your duty." This order was no sooner given than such of the Jury as still continued in front were most rudely repelled by the soldiers, one of whom struck a Juror a violent blow on the face with his fist, with such force as would have knocked him down if he had not been held up by those behind. Some of the Jury had by this time got in, but three or four who stood in the door-way were forcibly driven back, and the door shut in their faces. After a few moments, it was again opened, and the other Jurors who had got tickets were admitted. Those who had not were ex cluded. The violence thus offered to the persons of the Jurymen was observed by some of the crowd of about twenty-five or thirty persons who were outside, and who expressed their disapprobation by some hisses and cries of " shame !" The Jury and the Co roner remained in the barrack-yard for a short time, but were not admitted to see any of the witnesses or the troops, except these who were stationed inside the door. Of what passed within the gates, we of course can speak only from hearsay, not having been ad mitted. We were informed that the Jurors were asked for tickets, and at the same time it was stated to them that none would be received but such as were signed with the names of the bearers. This, we understood, was complied with by the Coroner sign ing the tickets with the names of those present ; but eves this was not held sufficient, aad they were told that none but witnesses could be admitted. The Jury were then told that they must withdraw, or that they would be put out by force. The Jury at length came out evidently indignant at the treatment they had received. They soon after assembled at the. Rose and Crown Inn, but the room there not affording sufficient accommodation, they adjourned to the Old King's Head. When the Jury had taken their seats in the great room at the Old King's Head, the Coroner addressed them as follows—" Gentlemen, since I entered the room, I have received a letter signed by Mr. Hob house, in which he says— Sui—l have laid before Lord Bathurst your letter of yes terday evening, and am directed to inform you that there ap pears no reason for altering the direction already given, as to the manner in which the witnesses are to make their inspection of the Life Guards. It may, however be right to observe, that as tho examination before you appears not to be yet closed, it may be for you and the Jury to consider whether it would not be proper . to postpone the inspection till all the witnesses are eta smiled who wish to view the troops, as It would be inconvenient and highly inexpedient to direct any further inspection. " I remain, Sir, &e. " H. HOBHOUSE' " The Foreman.—lt should be matter of consider ation how tar this arrangement is consistent with the convenience of the Jury . lam unwilling to agree to any suggestion coming from that quarter, unless our convenience be considered. If the Gentlemen of the Jury be of opinion that they ought to procras tinate the inspection of these men until the final exa m ruination of the witnesses, so be it ; but I would not put it off on account of the military. Mr. Brows? ( a Jurory.—The question is to know whether bailment evidence has been given to satisfy the minds of the Jury, so that they may be enabled to return a correct verdict. Has there been a suffi cient inspection ? A Juror.—l believe the witnesses are at this moment inspecting the military. A Juror. —They went to the barracks, but have been turned out. stated that he had been -- Montague, a witness, refused admittance. The Foreman. — We don't know the quality of the witnesses who have not yet been examined. If those who are in attendance are likely to give more impor tant evidence than we have yet received, it would be desirable to examine them ; but if not, it would he a waste of time to receive a body of evidence which has already been given. Mr. Sheriff WI, an MAN.—I don't know that I shall call a single witness more than 1 have already done. I have reduced the list of witnesses under twenty, and I will put it in the hands of the Jury. If any con tradiction appears between the witnesses already exa mined and those who may be brought forward here after, it will then be for the Jury. if they think proper, to call any other individuals whose names are con tained in the list. I may, perhaps, call one witness ; but Ido not know that I will. I wish everything to be reduced to a certainty, as far as possible ; and 1 think nothing can be gained by a postponement of the inspection of the military. Mr. HANSON.--I will object to any witness being called after I have adduced my witnesses. If such a course be admitted, we may go on ad igfinitum.— Whatever witnesses Mr. Sheriff Waithman chooses to bring forward, he ought to call at once. Mr. Sheriff WAITIINIAN.—The Learned Gentleman mistakes my situation entirely. I am no prosecutor ; 1 and it is for the Jury to say whom they will call, and at what time. I have done my duty to this poor man's relatives as far as possible ; but I think it would be very useless to call additional witnesses, who could only prove what has already been stated. Ido not wish to call witnesses after I have heard the evidence given by those whom the Learned Gentleman may bring forward ; but I speak constitutionally when I say that the Jury have a right to make whatever in quiry they please, and to call witnesses before them when they please. I will give in the list, and then the Jury can act as they think fit. Mr. Spicer (a Juror).—l think you can say no more, Sir. You have, as it appears, done with examining witnesses on the one part, unless the Gentlemen of the Jury , please to call them. The Foreman.—l do not know why Mr. Sheriff Waithman should be shut out from the inquiry. Mr. Sheriff WAIT/IMAK.—This is not a party busi. ness. It is a matter into which the Jury are to in quire, in order to satisfy their own minds and their own consciences, that, in the end, they may return a correct verdict. Mr. Blakie.—We do not know whether it will be proper or necessary to examine another witness, until we have received the report of the persons who have gone to the barracks. It is premature to talk of exa mining witnesses until we have seen those individuals. We all know, that we have made an attempt to get into the barracks, and we are equally aware of the disgraceful manner in which we have been treated. I wish to learn whether the Jury mean to let this business fall to the ground, or whether they will take some decided cognizance of it, to let the world know how we have been treated as Jurors? Mr. Brown.—The approbation of our own con sciences is sufficient. We have nothing to do with the opinion of the world : we are to consider whether the evidence already given is sufficient to satisfy our minds. Mr. Sheriff WAITHNIAN.—To save time, may we not, while the witnesses are viewing the soldiers, employ ourselves in discussing any other point that may arise? Mr. Blakie.—l wish our treatment not to be passed over in silence. It ought to be taken into considera tion; particular cognizance ought to be taken of it. The Foreman.—Certainly the conduct used towards us is too gross to be borne. Mr. Blakie.—Mr. Deloraine Jones, a witness exa mined yesterday, has declared, that he will not go into the barracks unless some of the Jury are along with him. I heard him say, this morning, that he should not feel himself safe if he went to the barracks without the Jury. The Foreman.—l think it necessary that these things should go forth to the world at large. Mr. Brown.—One would think that you wished your most secret thoughts to be known to the world. Mr. Blakie.—The world knows that we, as Jury men, meant to attend at the barracks this morning, and people will naturally wish to know how we were received. I wish it to go forth. Jonathan Deane (a witness) said, that he had pre sented himself at the great door of the barracks, but was refused admittance. He was directed by the Foreman to proceed to the small, or Officers gate. A Juror suggested the propriety of summoning the Adjutant of the Regiment, who ought to be pro duced, with the muster-roll of the detachment which was on duty on Tuesday, August 14. A Juror.—What can we examine him to? Mr. Sheriff WAITHSIANYOU may summon him before you as an Inquest sitting on the body of the deceased, and he is bound to attend with the muster roll of those soldiers who were present in Oxford street on Tuesday. You may, when he is before you, lesake what remarks you please with respect to the conduct which has been pursued towards you at the barracks. The Foreman.—l think there is no doubt but that we have a right to call the Adjutant before us. We, ought, therefore, to send a summons to him im mediately. The CORONER.—There is some difficulty attached to such a proceeding. The Regiment are now under inspection, and the Adjutant is of course with them. Mr. Sheriff WArreisinte.—But they refuse your in spection, and they knock your Jurors down. The CORONEIL-4 have not heard that : I hope no person was knocked down. Mr. Blakie.—l was struck severely, and I should have fallen but for the person behind me. The blow would have been more violent if I had not iu some degree warded it. Mr. Sheriff WArritstAv.—They refuse admission to your witnesses. There is an evident obstruction. The witness Deane.-1 do object to go into the yard, unless accompanied by some Gentlemen to protect the witnesses. Some advantage may be taken of us when we are there. I protest against going by myself. The Col:mum—Then I think your conduct is not quite correct. You ought to go to the Barracks tem perately and quietly, without lending yoimelf to any party, and without pointing out the way in which you wish to proceed there. There are b My , istrates • - in the Barracks ; for 1 have just received a letter from Mr. Birnie, requesting my presence. Mr. WAITHNIANTIIis is a gross violation of jus tice. Another witness, I learn, has been refused ad mittance. Many of the witnesses come from an im mense distance. Some from Stepney, some from Lambeth. We cannot expect to keep them together during the whole day. We could hardly induce them to remain yesterday. Here is a witness (Sa muel Green) who has been refused admittan ce, and his ticket has been taken from him. Mr. Brown.—lt appears that we are considered very fit objects to be laughed at. Mr. WAITIINIAN.—We have all a right to coin plain. The country has a right to complain, the Jury have a right to complain, and I, as an indivi dual, have a right to complain. Jonathan Deane (a witness who had been sworn and examined). —I went over to the Barracks, ac companied by Francis M‘Gowran, another witness, and the Coroner. The Coroner was admitted ; but the soldiers turned us out rudely, and shut my foot in the gate. Mr. Birnie is in the Barracks. The witnesses all wish for justice, but we cannot be ex pected to bear insults every day. The CORONER now left the Court for the purpose of proceeding to the Barracks. On his return, he said, " Gentlemen, I have seen the Magistrates at the Barracks ; and they say, that according to their directions, the witnesses shall be admitted, but that they considered none to be witnesses except those persons who have been sworn and examined. They do not think it right to admit persons who have not been sworn and examined, because they do not know to what extent it may he carried. Their instruction is, that the witnesses who have been sworn, and who think they can identify the man, may be admitted." The Foreman.—The answer to that declaration is, that Francis M'Gowran and Jonathan Deane went with you to procure admission, and were turned out. They produced their cards, and stated that they were -witnesses who had been examined, but the door was !.shut in their faces. A Juror.—The determination stated by the Co toner has been come to since. The Foreman.—That matters nothing. The Offi cers and Magistrates had the same instructions yes terday, under the letter which was received from the Secretary of State's Office, as to the admission of the witnesses, which they now adopted. Why, then, Mr. Coroner, should they give you the trouble to go over for the purpose of explaining that which was clear before? I cannot conceive the meaning of it. The CORONER.—My idea originally was, that the witnesses examined were the persons to be admitted; and that I should issue tickets for those individuals only. This was objected to by a Gentleman present, who suggested, that those who were not examined, as well as those who were examined, should be ad mitted ; and I was called on to issue a certain num ber of tickets accordingly, which I did. The Foreman.—Then the proper course would have been, to have ascertained from those two per sons, Deane and M , Gowran, whether they had been examined or not, before they were refused admittance. But, to shut the door in their faces in this manner, is against all the rules and principles which had been laid down by the Secretary of State, as to the inspec tion of the soldiers. The CORONER.—The Magistrates stated that the best way would be to forward them a list of the names of the persons examined, and to let those in dividuals proceed to the Barracks, accompanied by some ostensible person. Mr. Sheriff Warrumart.—This is as great a viola tion of justice as ever I knew since I marked the course of public proceedings in this country. The CORONER.—We have nothing to do with dis cussions of that kind. Mr. Sheriff Wataltstme.—Sir, I am appealing to you on a point of public importance. I demanded from you that tickets should be given to certain per sons, after they had been examined on particular points. Finding, however, that the other Jury had acted differently, I requested tickets for fourteen or fifteen individuals, prior to their being sworn; and as it was stated at the time that they would be ad mitted, I hold the refusal to be a gross violation of justice, and of the solemn engagement entered into by the Secretary of State, or, at least, by Mr. Hob house, as well as an insult to the Jury, and to every person concerned. In this country, if a demand were made for a whole Regiment to be drawn up, in the face of the world, in order that all persons might as semble, to identify an evil doer, it has been constantly complied with. I have seen this done, myself. I have seen a whole Regiment drawn out to identify a man who stole a piece of dowlas, " of filthy dowlas." But in this case, a man is killed, and the Secretary of State tells you you shall have an inspection, with a limitation, that is, the witnesses are to be shut in, and you are to be shut out. We are next told, that the Magistrates cannot guess to what extent the in spection might be carried. Why, is there no confi dence to be put in aJury? And if not in a Jury, is no confidence to be put in a Coroner' Is it to be supposed that he would forget his oath, and abusa his office, by admitting persons in an indefinite man ner? Such conduct is not to be endured ; and it is for the Jury to consider how far they can vindicate their honour and character in the face of the country. When witnesses are called on to view a large body of persons drawn up for that purpose, they will natu- - rally feel some degree of intimidation. Therefore I think that the muster-roll of the detachment which was on duty when the man was shot should be pro duced before us. This would answer the ends of jus tice better, instead of drawing up a great number of per .wan sol es s in a a pp sp ly ec e i v e e s n of di tose sg e u t ise. But w the etroops d n r o aw , when nup, the they a smiimma re tat t gdan u iin m ncege e t. d away, and the Jury are also refused ad ml declare, head la s r t e I a , n do irn h gm a r oy d n l kno w sb gr whether caonuscarcely imagine rlsctaei Such heels. Y Eg h o a n l t conduct is better calculated for the meridian of Turkey or Algiers. I speak warmly; because 1 feel warmly. Even a delay is a violation of j ustice ; but this is a downright refusal of redress. It is said that persons learned in the law should attend here. 1341 hog: can with the poor man whose brother has been killed fee soli, citors or lawyers? The Jury can do nothi ng to in. to demnify him, either with reference to his mind or his pocket. All lie desires is—for he is not sensate!d by any vindictive feelings—that the persons and pr o perties of the Public should be protected ; and that view he makes an appeal to the.laws of his com l . try. You can, if you please, summon the Adjutant immediately, and see whether he -.via or will tax obey your call. A Gentleman appears here for him, and the summons will be sent through his means. The Foreman.—\\'e certainly ought to d o i t . Mr. Sheriff WA IT II M A N.—There are eight or ten witnesses in attendance, who may be sworn to t h e particular fact of identification, if you choose. If the Ipersons named in the muster-roll, :is having f ormed the detachment called out on Tuesday last, be d rawn tp, I e e c n o o gn d ize doubt that thiantdsievvi individual w l wihtnoefissreesdvt•Fi.l! momenti ihave Many persons knew him as he was g oi n g into the barrack-yard, but it appears that the - Secretary of ) State's order is not obeyed, and those who can lam. tify him are kept out. A Coroner's Jury I conceive to be the highest Inquest in the country. Some Ju.. ries meet to investigate the loss of property, but theirs is an Inquisition respecting life. When a life is taken away, however humble the individual, and although he may be without a friend in the world, still an Inquest must be held on him. The Jury must return a verdict, and if he has conic to his is death improperly, or by violence, the fact must he ascertained, and the oifender brought ' • to justice. I am sorry to have been obliged to take up so much ' of the time of the Jury. I never spoke to or saw the deceased. But when I saw the poor woman swoon. 'tug in the arms of her surviving brother, and when, with tears in their eyes, they stated that they had not a friend in the world, that they had no means of e m . ploying Counsel, that they knew not even how to get the witnesses together, I should have considered myself the most wretched being that ever crawled on the earth, if, an appeal having been made to me, I did not take up the cause. Mr. Brown (a Juror)—Your sentiments, lbelles e , accord with the sentiments held by most of us, and we arc obliged to you for your exertions. After some further observations, it was determined that the witnesses who considered they could identify the Officer should be called in and sworn to that fact. The first witness called was .1. Denver.—Saw an Officer fire and shoot a man at Cumber land-gate ; thinks he should know the Of ficer again if he saw him; witness stood at the censer of Cumberland-street; saw a man drop, and .7 a soldier fire ; if I saw him in the same dress I I should know him again, but I cannot be certs;n. • The Officer was two or three feet from the drain of • the street. Mr. W. Pinkerton, a grocer, lives at Bayswater, next door to the Black Lion; was on the left hand side of Cumberland-gate; saw a person file on that side; did not see any one fall, but saw a body carried away soon after; it was an Officer who fired: cannot say if he should now know the Officer, but if he saw him in the same dress to-day, probably lie might know him. J. Curtis lives in the Almonry, Westminster; was at Cumberland-gate at the time of the Procession, but saw no person shot, nor did lie see any person fire. Mr. Dean now returned from the barracks, where he had been with the two last witnesses, and stated, that the witnesses were all shut up in a room, and not permitted to come out. The CORONER—WeII, we know that. A Juror—Certainly, and there it appears they will be kept until the Coroner reports he has no morewit nesses to send. Mr. Sheriff WA ITHMA NT, with mach warmth, oh. , jected to this course. The letter of Mr. Ilobliouse said the soldiers were to be paraded at two o'clock; now no soldiers were to be seen, and the witnesses were kept prisoners! It was most shameful. Foreman—We ought to summon the Commander. Mr. Sheriff WAlTHNlAN—Certainly. The Jurilase been insulted; the witnesses have been insulted; and I am sorry to say, the Coroner seems reluctant to do his duty. The CORONER—Sir, how dare you say I am tn. willing to do my duty? I was never so treated is the whole course of my life; and I say you do rot say what is fact. One of the Jury—Certainly the Coroner has beet insulted. Such language should not have beenbeld. The Coroner, like Us, has a difficult task to perform. Much warmth of discussion followed, and thepro ceedings were for a time entirely suspended. Mr. WAITIINI A N then said, that he had just re ceived information that the troops were not than out; that it was not intended to draw them out at all that day ; and that the Magistrates were uos sit• ting in the barracks and examining the witnesses as they went over, to endeavour to draw a case from them against themselves. A Juror—This I suspected. Our Coroner shod! go over and explain to the Commanding Officer. The CORONER—I have received a message frog the Commanding Oficer, requesting to see The Jurors generally—Let us request our tAlv* net to go. One of the Jury—Some of our body s hould go with him; say our Foreman. The Foreman—l will certainly go over if I alpd sired; the whole proceeding is disgraceful; we pa" been grossly insulted. e d Mai* The proceedings were then adjourned, • 0 _„ and the Coroner and the Foreman p roceeded t barracks. • the ecI P After being absent about half a n hour, • ies nas • NER returned, and stated that a l ist of wanes - _„ • been made out, and they would be admitted e one_ s 7 one, and allowed to see the reg iment. tra ipe l, would now be out for one hour, and any ( went in the course of that time , having beetts7 ew to the fact of proving identity would be admitt t o say, th l itted adm Te Foreman said, he felt it necessary he accompanied the Coroner, and was oltera the outer court, but no further; there he wa s to remain until the Coroner came back. con ,.. ct Mr. Sheriff WaITH NI AN asked if this wasconduct be drawn 11 to be put up with; the troops were to en 1 _ j a at two o'clock ; the witnesses and Jury . tr e attendance at that hour. It was now ti d v .4 , o a" ..for i were now told that the troops vi.ould be eir on an hour. This was done to serve t sit for lie knew that a Court of Inquiryh had e wrin ting . jui j at the barracks, ccinpeied of lagistrat '" • 4. N been examining every on names and addresses, an of Bow-street Oil:cers. their own purpo<.e. and 1 The CAROM E R.—You they will be admitted, a: your examination, and n The next IN itness call resides at 235, Oxford-i sate ou Tuesday, and say did not see him killec] but did not see any one the man lay ; did not see lift his sword, with whit ness's hat; could identif he cut at him becausehc and charged him with t This witness received but soon returned, and inittance, because the C Mr. Sheriff WAITIM offered to you, Sir. Yo witnesses going with a should be admitted. Inc was rejected, and the a stilted and set at nonglu The CORONER. —Thee Mr. Sheriff WAITIINI. are the kindest and mo with. You are most re who insult you ; you at ever knew. _ _ The CoßoNEa.—Mr. return the compliment- The Sheriff here it delay, his witnesses ha more in attendance. The Foreman then :a had received of the wi the barracks, and obset of these individuals we false imprisonment. A Juror wished to a advice them to procee,:: file CORONEIL—I to conduct yourselves po:;sible. The Foreman wishe which he believed hi! against the witnesses I persons except the Jul The Beadle who ha mess now returned fro they had been refused Mr. Sheriff WAITI mation being given, t most extraordinary ; i said by Curtain Bohm which he had submitt borionsly given, and t At this period of the to the Foreman of th surgeon, who stated, t vile of the witnesses who was in extieme ill in the Barracks, with° iHntions to him, an, taken to obtain his it Srl'aillt to) which it am Sion after Mr. Jone proceeded to take his regarding himself dur By Alderman WAI to-day in consequence to go to the Barracks, Officer who fired the summoned to attend received from the Cc remained for some tin was there waiting wh Commanding Officer withdraw ; there wer of the Jury and the accordingly. Sever; remain; but the Offi the outside of the w missioned Officer opt for his card of admis a short time, and h, was soon after adrr ment in the Barrac saw Mr. Birnie and I Mr. Birnie, he asked as the Coroner was said, he had no reasr would be treated wi there. He romaine as he could guess, begged to see Mr. 11 Officer appeared to I plied to Mr. Birnie, He returned for ans their detention, and patchi and their husines small,athe guar going to the door w could not say they hayed with the grey impression on his m to prevent their seci The ConoNea. The intention was, see the Regiment, the Officers pass ano together, would ha --(Here was a mart nor said he could r mit this long col amounted to nothit anent upon it. A Juror.—We co The witness resu nie the inconvenieo heat ; and Mr. Bi suffered only reason not yet received i About five o'clock he said they had n vernment, and the they would be callt The Beadle at t reported, that at si the Barrack-door but could get no a Witness :esuniee was conducted by ri