Star. — London, England, 1810-03-10 00:00:00

en of al e ,,ptors as a prise front lit enemy, -HadAg could b, more unjust than this, and let who would practice it, we shladd not. (Hear, hear.) Itin this country even in our private transactions, we act upon higher principles between man and man than in any other, let us not upon great public questions contradict the dictates of conscience. ( Hear, hear.) •If We have got greater p Aver and strength than the enemy ] let us shoe them we possess moderation in proportion —let vs not merely be just and upright r but mild and leni. eat . Such were the printiples. upon which-we acted in 1756, when Montesquieu gave us the high praise of mot seeking how profit might be made, but how justice might be done. - A Naval Officer, whose name we could not learn, sa id, he wished to remind the House, that vessels which, in time of peace, had gone to France on par ties of pleasure, were scandalously detained and made prizes of. He justified the law in question, and con tended that we had acted with more moderation than other countries. Mr. M. MONTAGUE observed, that it was some what curious for the assertion of the Noble Lord, that the Customs of Great Llritain had increased precisely tw n millions, whilst the Customs of France had been diminished two millions. Sir JOHN NEWPORT thought his Honourable Friend (Mr. W. Smith) and the.Honourable Gen tleman (Mr. Wilberforce) entitled to the thanks el. the House for having brought this subject uruicr -the % •ew of ParliAment, as he looked ttpon the pr•actice alluded to, as little better than lieenced public robbery. The ATTORN E Y GENERAL stated,!.:that alienever any property was found in the possessionof the Court of Admiralty, it was disposed of according to the law of nations, by which it became forfeited riot to the captors, but to the Crown ; and was ac tually at the disposal of the Crown, without any con troll w:Jatr , er, on the part of the captors. . T:ie motions were then put and agreed to: COMMITTEE OP SUPPLY. lie was persuaded,- that if the House was now, feiti the first time, called upon for an opinion, so far from l regretting their former opinion, they would be ac tuated by the same sentiments and feelings, whicli were not more congenial to the character and honou .r d than conducive to thu best interests of the nation. •It they would look at the question in this point of *viewi , they would find the measure proposed not alone due to the honour and character of the British name, hut upon considerations of sordid interest, find it equally consistent with sound policy as national honour and reputation—no les.i dictated by maxims of prudence and interest, than consonant to every principle Of public faith, national policy, and liberal conduct. It !wad not be doubted* that the cause of Spain was now the cause of this country, and that the longer we could make or enable that country to resist the strength and exhaust the military resources of France the more we should promote the interest of this coun try in the existing war. As long as there should re main a hope of success in Spain, it was obviously the best policy of this country to keep up the spirit of re• sistance to French usurpation in the Spanish nation. The power of France could never be completelF es tablished or really secure in Europe, until that power should be established on the ruins of the independence of Spain. So long as *Spain should continue to resist the-usurpations of France, it would be necessary for that power to direct a great proportion of its strength and disposeable force against Spain. It was there fore the duty, as well as the policy of this country, to foment and keep alive in the Peninsula that spirit which alone could hold out any hope of success to the cause, which might thus perhaps become the germ of the liberty and independence of the world. (Hear, hear,' hear.) It was not then a question to consider, what were tile best points of the Peninsula to which our succours should be directed, or whether. Spain was to be supported ? The fact then was, that we were in possession of Portugal, and that we were in great strength in that country. The real question therefore was, whether when in possession of Portugal under such circumstances the House should adopt the proposition, either to support those who were disposed to continue the struggle in that country, or by with. drawing the British army to leave them to their fate, and abandon their cause altogether ? (Hear, hear !) The luestion, he should repeat, really was, whether that House should determine to sustain the cause of the Peninsula in Portugal, or, by deserting it, leave that country to be overrun by the enemy : in doing which, they would surrender to France the most con venient station, and the most important instrument of hostility against this country ? Was that a ques tion which Gentlemen were -prepared to accede to ? Would the Committee deem it prudent or politic tti, leave the British army in that country, and not avail itself of the support and additional strength which was to be derived from the Portuguese army intended, by the measure he ha 4 to propose, to be taken into British pay ? If they should be of opinion that the English army could answer any useful purpose-byre mooni in Portugal, sorely it must be desirable to take a dvantage of any accession of force which the mean- of the country aforded, and which . would con sequently enhance the ultimate prospect of the cause. Bnt if they should now think to.withdraw their army they should, in this instance, trot feel these senti ments which made the express tO'his Majesty their approbation of his having entered 'into a treaty with Spain after her reverses—if in the 'contemplation of the present difficulties, and without a just regard to the prospective interests of the cause of the Peninsula, they should determine to abandon Portugal alto gether, sure he was, that it would be in effect to abandon the cause of this country, and to tarnish the, character and honour of the nation. When lie looked back to that feeling which induced Parliament to ap prove of a perseverance in support of the Spanish cause, after the difficulties and reverses which had been sustained in Spain, he could not bring himself to sup pose that any indisposition would be shewn on this occasion to maintain still the cause of the Peninsula. At a period when the hopes of Spain were so reduced, when the cause of that country was to be sustained almost within the walls of Cadiz, was it, he would ask, either for the interest of the surviving energies of the Spanish cause, or for the immediate advantage of the cause of this country, that we should with draw, or profess to withdraw, are British army from Portugal ? What consequence could result from such a cause, but the inevitable subjection of Spain and Portugal, and the necessary augmentation of the ene my's means of hostility against this country ? But it' might be said, that by still retaining possession of For- . toga', we should only be able to occupy thirty, forty, Or fifty thousapd French troops. Even if that the true state ache case, he would ask, whetherZ e t 'would not be a material object; at a time,' whew 'the French army was likely to he folly occupied in Spain? Was it nothing, that, if the French should think of invading Portugal, they should, in order to give them any hope of success, bring an army of at least 100,000 men to act against that country ? Or, should Portu gal be left, by withdrawing the British army, in such a state that 10,000 men would be amply sufficient to over-run and subjugate that nation ? Such a senti ment he did not expect to hear expressed in that House. Indeed, so convinced was he of the wisdom and policy of the measure he meant to propose, that he should not have felt it necessary to make any ob servations to recommend it to the adoption c.f . the Committee, if it had not been for the manner in which his notice had been received by the Gentlemen op posite, and which led him to think it would meet with opposition. But it might be asked, whether any person could be sanguine enough now to hope, that the Spanish cause would succeed ? If he were not sanguine enough to entertain such an expecta tion, even still, it was his opinion, that the cause ought not then to be abandoned. But what were they to think of the opinions of those Gentlemen, who were always of opinion, that it was impossible for Spain to hold out so long ; they, who told the House so often, that the cause was hopeless ; that it was vain to send out British troops to sustain it ; that if Spain was to succeed at all, she must succeed at once ; and that she could never maintain a protracted contest against the disciplined armies and emu mous resources of France.? Spain had continued the struggle hitherto, however • and whatever might be the gloomy aspect i of- her affairs at present, the cause of the Peninsula, t according to his opinion, ought not to be abandoned. He, was sanguine enough thus far, that it would be difficult for France to establish a tranquil domin:On in-Spain, unless Great Britain should separate herself The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved ti)e Order of the Day for resolving into a Committee of the A:hole House, to consider of . the supply granted to his Majesty. The Order having been read, the Ordnance Esti mates were referred to the Committee. On the House ing into the Committee, Mr. Lushington in the C!!:. Sir THOMAS TURTON asked, whether it was intmded to vote the Ordnance Estimates in the Com r,:t•ee •that night ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER. replied, that if the other important question should pmduce any very lengthened discussion, the consider ,:f the Ordnance Estimates should not be pro-' (ceded with. PORTUGUESE TROOPS IN slur= VAT. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in rising for the purpose of submitting to the Com mittee a Resolution for granting to his Majesty the sum of . 0 30,000, to enable his Majesty to take a , i ,cores of Portuguese troops into his pay, should have felt justified, if what had fallen from Honourable Gentlemen opposite, when be bg od given notice of his motion, had not afforded reason for thinking it could be opposed, in supposing that it would meet with generals approbation. When he looked back to the feelings , which pervaded that 'House and the country at large, on the first intelli gence of the patriotic struggle of Spain, be could not but consider this application to Parliament as one whio would have been expected and required from t`le Government by the country. If that House still retained any of that generous and honourable feeling —if it retained any part of that indignation and ab horrence with which it was penetrated against the atrocity and perfidy of the Ruler of France, in his unprincipled usurpation of the Monarchy of Spain ; or if that House was still influenced by that noble sympathy which so strongly interested them in-the cause of the Spaniards suffering under that perfidy, atrocity, and usurpation, he was persuaded that there could e:ist no disposition in the Committee to resist his motion. He was well aware, that it might be said, that the measure he had to propose, related not to Spain, but to Portugal. Bat he must contend, that the interests of both could not be separated ; that whatever should be done to give strength to Portugal, would add to the means of Spain ; and that to prov:de for the defence and security of Porto - toga!, wo u ld b e to promote t h e genera l i nteres t s of the - Peninsula, and the particular success of the Spa ni,'a cause. It was incumbent upon him, however, to admit, that if France should ever succeed in este bitshing a secure and tranquil Government in Spain, it would be impossible for Portugal, with even the asiist,ince which this country could afford, effectually ivist the attempts of France. But if this country 61 cilia still continue to hold Portugal, pouting the struggle in Spain, and thereby meaace the rear and flanks of the French forces in that country, he was sure it would be admitted, that we should by that means Promote the cause of Spdin, and consequen tly the interests of all par t s of th e Pe n i ns ula. • in thi s p l ace part i cularly to refer to the feel i ng = had been excited by the first built of Spanishipa tiotisrn ; and here he did not mean that general;end 2 -Tdttlt spirit of enthusiasm which glowed in every British bosom on receipt of the intelligence of the cmgenial efforts of the Spanish people, but' that more eeliberate judgment contained in the recorded opi '.kln of Parliament. In the Address of that House, a: the commencement of last Session, he found the paragraph: We congratulate your Majesty on your receiving from the quii.h Government the strongest assurances of their determined I..r w'rance in the cause of the legitimate Monarchy, and of natitotal independence of Spain ; and that, ao long as the iktiple of Spain shall remain true to themselves, your Majesty '1: continue to them your most strenuous assistance and support. ' ilese were_ the sentiments which that House enter :,tined last year upon the subject. In the Address, • , t the commencement of the present Session, they :tad said, Vje cannot sufficiently express our satisfaction, that the Spa ntah ,T,, l 7_ertrneut, in th e name a t .d by the authority of Ferdi :gu v!!. has determined to assemble the General and Exmoor _lCortes of the N at i on . We confidently trust, this mea 'e ~ give fresh animation and vigour to the Councils and the 7,7 .. . qain, and succa3fally , direct the energies and spirit of mt_csp.s.iitsh people to the maintenance of their legitimate Mo i,lefl.a.nd t;:e ultimate deliverance of the Spanish Nation." "n heHouse had expressed such sentiments in their recorded votes, i t was n ot too muc h to expect , t h at • the c9mmittee, with a view- to confirm tlie principles upon Which those sentiments were founded, would not Pose ,his measure, ta k en i n di re ct, omformity,with wishes of the nation, and the votes of Parliament. • . from the cause of that country. But a secure or tiara , but still many Members ofthelitiOsitiiiisthave bees* gull government France could not establish in Spain, startled and alarmed at the picture. A Right Ho without much difficulty, nor easily make any effectual nourable Gentleman (Mr. Huskisson), lately in the application of the means of the Peninsula in her hos- Administratioo, and whose attention had been pecu tility against this country. She might occupy Spain liarly called to the subject, had told the House that with an army, but her power would be confined with- a revision and retrenchment in the expenditure of the in the limits of her military posts ; and it would re- country, not to the extent of a few troops of cavalry, quire nearly as large an army to keep possession, as not as to some militia regiments—but a radical and to make a conquesk of Spain. There never.lead exist- complete retreechment—was absolutely required.— ed a nation capable of subduing a population posses: This was no idle phantorn,buta stateinent coming from •sing the mind, and heart, and soul, of the Spaniards. a Gentleman who possessed informat'on onthe subject, They might sustain reverses ; but victories and the and whose duty it had been to exarnineintoitminutely. triumphs of their enemies would teach them discipline, He thanked the Honourable Gentleman for the and infuse into them a spirit which would be the ruin , warning, but he wished it had come at an earlier pe of their oppressors. Under these circumstances, he : riod, when the Honourable Mern!ear for Oekhanip , should put it to the House, whether it would be pro- ton (Mr. Wardle) in the CO!IFSC of the last e;essiou. dent or wise to abandon Portugal? The last Austrian called the attention of the lieuse to the subject. It war had arisen, in a great measure, out of the contest he hal done so, they would, probably. be now saved in the Peninsula. During the progress of that war, the Inquiry in which they were at present engaged ; it would be in the recollection of the House, that they weuld have been saved the late disgraceful Er. one other day's successful resistance of the French pedition Ai - other Honourable Gentleman admit army by the Austrians, might have overthroan the ted that we must retrench ; then, why be called on accumulated power of the enemy. That such events to vote a million of money in this hopeless. experi might again take place, it was not impossible. No ment, at a period too, when the depreciation of our man could anticipate what might arise of this cieicatp- paper money was about one-third ? These were clis tion in the course of a short period, and under all the agreeable truths, but they 'twat be toll. With eeono.. circumstances of the world ; but as long as the ion_ ; my, the country possessed the meaes of retrieving fit test was, or could be, maintained in the PeniAtia, self, butnot without it. Bonaparte looked not to his he considered it the best policy of this country hail 1p- shim but to our prodigalitYforeffecting ouroverchrow. port and promote it. Under this impression s 4bVre- ) .1 1 - It4r. Citrwen) was unwilling to venture this last fore, he should move, " that a sum of .€9Bd, 'be s e. We were in an awrul situatioe ! The Cnnsti granted to his Majesty, to enable his Majestito * had undergone a change. The House was not advances to the Portuguese Government in _wawa t ha 4 it had. been. A Minister, formerly, could not of its exertions in that kingdom, by taking 50,900 helamain in office, without possessing the confidence of Portuguese troops into the British pay." Htaland labe House.- Now Ministers found that they could only to add, that it was proposed to make these ad- I ."retain their situations without possessing the conti vances pursuant to an arrangement made with Ole : denceeither'of that House or of the country—(Cries Portuguese Government, and not by a treaty waiich of 'Hear, Thar.) Mr. Pitt could not maintain him would be binding to the country, or take- the expen- self after he had last the confidence of the House, diture out of the controul of Parliament. but the present Ministers hadgreater reliance on the On the question being put, Sir JOHN NEWPORT observed, that the latter part of the Right Hon. Gentleman's statement had reilieved him from much difficulty, as the advance was not to he made in pursuance of any arrangement that could fetter the judgment of that House. He was sur prised that the Right Hon. Gentleman could have suppc.sed that such a motion could be agreed to with out opposition. If any question would provoke oppo sition, it must be that which would make them con tinue efforts in a cause, which every one, but the Right Hon. Gentleman, considered hopeless. The Honourable Baronet then referred to the documents, to shew that the Portuguese levies had not been ex pedited as they should have been. He did not think the embodying of 30,000 Portuguese troops, at the expence of nearly one million, could prop the hopelesi cause of Spain, now confined almost within the walls of Cadiz. The Right Hon. Gentleman had relied much upon the' recorded opinion of Parliament. Whilst the Spaniards were true to themselves, Par liament was pledged to support them. But he de- 1 uied that.they had been true to themselves. If they ; should be 'obliged to embark the British army, as he I supposed, they would, what was to be done with these 50,000 Portuguese troops ? Were they to be brought to this country, and added to the already enormous; foreign army in its service = or were they to be sent to the Brazils ? or to be lett fully equipped and ready to add to the military force of Bonaparte ? He trusted, whatever the Right Hon. Gentleman might say of I the difficulty of establishing a tranquil French Go vernment in Spain, that the means and resources of this country would not be wasted in encouraging an i intestine desultory warfare in that. As the contest was now hopeless, he would not trust any more men to the disposal of Ministers, all whose measures, down to the present hour, had been characterized. by a wanton waste of blood and treasure. Mr. VILLERS stated that he had stedfastly la. baured, and with great effect, to embody troopi in Portugal, and had never relaxed his exertions for raising the levies. The question was, whether we should leave our army in Portugal to be aided by all . that Portugal could Uo, or to contend with the enemy alone, when the whole mass of the people depended on them for protection?—He was of opinion that if the Spaniards had done their duty (and his opinion was deliberately formed on the spot), the aid afforded by this country would have more than sufficed for the deliverance of the Peninsula. He could not conceive how any one could be of opinion that an army should remain there unaided by our allies. The Portuguese Government had displayed great energy in raising the supplies. He concluded by panegyrising Lord Wel lington. Mr. CU . RWEN had looked in vain to what fell . from the ' Right Honourable Gentleman, for some grounds in support of the present motion. What, however, was he to think, when the Honourable Gen tleman who spoke last, and who was on the spot, stated that Spain had not done its duty. In the:e circumstances, how could Gentlemen call on that House to agree to the present motion, as creating a, diversion in favour of Spain ? The House had Itsffd, too, from the Honourable Gentleman who spoke Ittst, that there was energy in Portugal in the collection of taxes—but had he said that there was any enefgpiin the people in providing for the safety of the country ? If there had been any patriotism in Portugal, 'wciuld it have suffered the French army in the first instance to over-run it in the manner it had done ? He be lieved the Portuguese looked on the contest as being a British cause, and not of one for the interests of P-or tugal ; and he was afraid the gallant army which we had in that country, was placed in a very disagreeable predicament. It was incumbent on the Right Ho nourable Gentleman in calling on the House to con cur in the present motion, to shew that Portugal was in a situation to be saved—no prudent man could say that Spain was in this state. But was there no thing in the condition of the country to oppose the vote now proposed ? Was there nothing in the mode in which it was now found necessary to collect the taxes, which ought to make the House hesitate, before it voted away a million of money, without the prospect of any 'advantage resulting from it ? If our enemies could form a wish as to the con duct it would be most agreeable to them - we should adopt—if Bonaparte could express a wish on this sub ject, it would be that we should attempt to support Portugal. For he must know it would be the height of madness in us to do so. But had nothing lately passed in this country to make the House pause ? Had nothing lately occurred in that House ? He confessed it was nothing new to him (Mr. Curwen) ; ~ ~ . • . i _ torpor both of that House and of the public. What 1 change was there in the feelings of the public now and during the inquiry of last year ! Then the pub lic thought that the House had given I blow to cor- . ruption. Seeing that this v. as not the •case, they were now completely quiescent. It the House Wished to save the country, this iv,' s the tirneto dismiss allied ings of party, and to look only to the effectual means which at that moment offered. He should not presume to say what the danger was, but it was one which must not be neglected. The firs: olijoct was to bring the ex penditure of the country within its income ; the moment they did so, they wouldcutoff the 110 pes of France. The vote of this night, if it was such as he expected, would do more for the good of the count' y than the battle of Talavera, or the capture of half a French army. This would bring us ultimate success, but we must not look for it otherwise. The Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Perceval) asked, should we aban don Spain and Portugal ? No, surely not. Not abandon them, but give them the means of defending their country, if they chose it. But, in doing so we Were not to encourage civil wars. Such a proceeding was contrary to British justice. Under these feelings he should vote rather for deferring the question. No injury could arise from that, and the effects produced by a few weeks might be sufficient to shew the utter impossibility of the measure. Mr. LESLIE FOSTER cited Robertson's His tory of Charles the Fifth, to prove the gallantry of the Spanish people, and contended that the character r of valour and steadiness which they displayed on va rious occasions, particularly at Saragossa and Gerona, fully justified the expectations whidi induceii r the inn 1 terpo ition of our Government in favour of the Spa nish cause. In support of such a cause, and the peo ple more materially ii‘.erested in its success, he could not hesitate to afford all the aid in his power, nor could he ever despair of .uch a people until they des paired of themselves. General FERGUSSON le' t it his duty to express his opinion as a military man upon this occasion. He could not indeed sit silent, and.allow the delit•.'on to go forth, that Portugal could derive safety from the armament referred to in the motion. He would put the question to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, or to any Gentleman v.ho had spoken upon the 'other side, whether he seriously believed thsat thirty thou sand men could be found tit for military serv•..... in all Portugal, or rather, whether even half that num ber could be produced capable of efficiency ? With every disposition to do ample justice to the activity and skill of his gallant Friend (General Bercsford) he thought it quite absurd to calculate upon the formation of such a corps of Portuguese as any Officer could rely upon, to act apart trona a British force, or to afford any effective aid in the event of in : vasion. Upon such an occasion indeed, the cam ' paign must be fought by an army composed of very different materials from th.tse which it. would be ra- I tional to look for among the Portuguese people. The opinion which he entertained upon this subject de. rived additional confirmation, from some intelligence which he had recently received from a friend, who 14 the fullest opportunity of personal Observation.— In fact, the Portuguese levies were of such' a descrip -1 loop that he should regret the fate of our gallant ' , troops, if called upon to co-operate widi them. In deed he saw no use to which such levies were conver tiisle, while there was too much reason to apprehend their tendency to produce inconvenience and danger, and therefore he could not approve of the motion. Mr. M. FITZGERALD wished to know what was to become of these Portuguese levies in the event of an evacuation of Portugal ? Was it meant to Lend them to Ireland, where it was deemed inexpedient to entrust the defence of that country to ali army of our own fellow subjects of the same religion ? ' Was it meant to detain them in England to augment the number of foreign troops which was already, and in justice, complained of as too large for the security of English freedom—or was it meant to incur the erpence of sending them to our coketies, or to the Brazils ? As to any benefit to be derived from these levies against the common eaemv, he fully concur red in opinion with the gallant Officer who had just sat down. He had indeed never heard of any achievement performed by the Portuguese, with the exception of that in which 2000 men, headed by the Bishop of Oporto, entered Oporto, and took twenty. four Frenchmen prisoners. (A laugh, and Hear, hear.) The idea of retaining Portugal appeared to him to be quite chimerical—while our keeping up a fo:ce there was attended with enormous expellee. Indeed, he had lately seen a military memoir, presented to Louis X V. at the time of the contest for the Sp. Irish