Star. — London, England, 1821-03-16 00:00:00

I t hey were supplied with bread at a fair price, of good qua l i ty, and, above all, at a just measure or weight. This, be was sorry to say, was not at present the we; the law did not in, fact perform what it pro mised, but suspended its caution in the very provi sion where it was most requisite. He did not mean to go through the history of those various Statutes w hich had succeeded each other in relation to the size of Bread since the reign of Henry HI. and daring a period of 550 years. The House would, he was sure, excuse him for declining this labour, and f or limiting his attention to the last Act which had passed on this subject. It would be sufficient for his perpOSe to point out the defects of the law as it now txisted ; many might differ as to the remedy, and sonic might think that it would be better not to le gislate at all respecting it. He himself intended to move for the repeal of a part of the 59t11 of Geo. 111. T . 36.--a part containing a clause which enacted that all cases of complaint against bakers, the torn /plaint should be made within 24 hours after the Dread was ma de, and should be supported before the Magistrate by one or two disinterested witnesses. It was manifest that the onus probandi was here laid . u pon the wrong party, and that difficulties were iere cast in the way of the poor, who were most ea rned, and !specially in the country, to frauds of this description, which it must be almost impossible for them to surmouat. The labouring poor in the coun try often bought their bread on :t Saturday, and em ployed theifehildren for that purpose. A deficiency on its weight might not therefore be discovered till Monday, when the time for receiving the complaint was gone ►y. In fact, he believed that in the County of Norfolk, not one conviction had yet taken place under this Statute, although a very short time before it passed, there had been forty before one Magis trate. He understood that in the County of Dorset similar effects had followed, and one Magistrate had stated to him that be was averse to receiving com plaints, from a fear of making the bakers acquainted with die actual state of the law. In the .County of Stafford the same inconvenience was generally felt ; and be should, therefore, now move for the appoint ment of a Select Committee to consider of the Act for Regulating the Sale of Bread. Mr. LITTLETON observed, that he had heard many complaints of the futility of the law in its pre sent state. lie was inclined to think that unrestricted competition would afford the Public greater security than any legislative enactment ; hut was of opinion at the same time, that there should either be an en the repeal of the law, or that bread should in future' be sold by weight. Sir C. BURRELL observed, that the circumstance of the quartern loaf being now sold to the Public at. 10d. whilst fine wheat was at 1.34 a load, could only be ascribed to a combination amongst the bakers. Alderman C. SMITH observed, 'that wheat being at 1:14 per load, the quartern loaf might be sold at 10.—The motion was then agreed to, and a Com snittee appointed. ARMY ESTIMATES. On the Order of the Day for bringing up the Re port of the Army Estimates Mr. BERNAL complained that the Guards should be used at the British Museum, the Docks, and other places. A guard of one hundred men dispersed over the Metropolis, required a main guard of 400 men. He wished to see the Guards reduced from 7,000 to 4,000 men. He wished to see the Sovereign at tended by a proper proportion of solitary; but his wish also was to have as much reduction of the bur thens of the Peopleaw could be. &r H. HARDINGE said, that in point of expense the Guards were only about £2OO a-year more •ex pense to the Public than the same proportion in bat talions of the line. Mr. LOCKHART said, it was necessary for the House to examine the resources of the cruntry before voting such a number of men for the Army. They ought to have an account of the resources of the country at the beginning of a Session, before voting such large bodies of men, without knowing how they were to be paid for. Their present mode orproceed- Mg was a sort of _ " FaciUs descenses Averni !" He contended thaitiii:.lor;mitieeWas falsely called one of Ways and Means, because it voted large sums without really knowing what the Ways and Means elf the country were. The object of every' man should be to bring the Ministry to a sense of economy. SieHENitY PARNELL ridiculed the notion of these Estimates being brought forward with a view to economy. It was evident that so long as the No ble Lord was in office there would be no reduction in our Army, and consequently none in our expenditure and taxation—(Hear, hear).—He complained of the Army being used instead of the Civil Power in Ire land; but it was absolutely necessary, for, in fact, there was no such thing as a proper Constable in that country. The cause of this evil was, their being ap pointed by the Grand Juries. He hoped the Secre tary for Ireland would attend to this circumstance, and place the Constables under the complete controul of the Magistrates, which would enable the Noble Lord to make a reduction in the Army in Ireland of five thousand men. This would enable them to bring the Army in that country to the peace establishment, the same as we find it was in the year 179`2: Lord PALMERSTON said, the practice of Par liament was, to inquire how low they could reduce the various Establishments of the country, and then to examine how the; were to be made good. Mr. CALCRAFF was for keeping . up a great Sian skeleton regiments and Officers, in case of a sudden rupture. If, on a former occasion, he had been led to say anything which cast reflection upon any part of the military service of this country, he now retracted it—(hear, hear).—There was no man ratio honoured that service more than he did. Mr. LOCK HART and Lord PALMERSTON explained. Sit HUSSEY VIVIAN defended the conduct of the Committee. The Report was then brought up, when Mr. HUME rose to move an Amendhient to the Ern Resolution. In doing so, he denied that lie had ever cast any re fl ec ti on on th e Guards—Wear, hear). He considered that we were voting more men for the service of the current year than our financial powers could support. Hg wished that Magistrates should belaught to use the Civil, instead of the Military Powel. There was now, be believed, a barrack iu the House of Coital:on,, which would not have bees t rnie'eti• by our consticutionaliancestors. We had a l iii=vest Police; and Ministers ought to turn their attention towards improving the \ Police. He then moved that the number, of land troops should be 71,000 men, instead of 81,000. Colonel DAVIES seconded the motion ; and again contended for reduction to the standard of 1792. He challenged ally military man in the House to defend the keeping up the Waggon Train. A reduction of ten thousand men , might be made, without any in convenience to the service whatever. Mr. R. MARTIN rose only to make one observa tion, which he wished to address to the Honourable Member for Aberdeen (Mr. Hume), The leader of the Opposition, if he understood him rightly, had said, that the pay of the military might be reduced one-half.—(A cry of " No").—He understood him to have said so, and his object was now to know how many of the Opposition concurred in opinion with their leader, that the pay ought to be reduced one-half? He merrly put the question, in order to ascertain how far the Honourable Member's doctrine was recognised by his party. Mr. lIUME, with much warmth, denied that he had ever used'such words; nor was the Honourable Member justified in using his name in the way he had—(H ear, hear). Mr. It. MARTIN said, he had understood the' Hon. Member to say so; but, if he was wrong, he begged pardon of the House—(Hear, hear). Mr. C. H. HUTCHINSON considered the Esti mates extravagant, and quite unsuitable to the situa tion of the country—(Hear, hear).—The People could not bear this oppressive expenditure. When he retorted to the melancholy distresses which pre vailed in Ireland, he left it to the Hon. Member for Galway (Mr. R. Martin), who had voted for these extravagant Estimates, to settle with his own Con stituents, how he could reconcile such a vote with the famishing state of so many of his countrymen, and with what taste he could follow up that vote, with an attempt to turn into ridicule the exertions of those Gentlemen who,like himself (Mr. Hutchinson), had endeavoured to withstand the exorbitant expen diture of the ;Minister—(Hear, hear).—The Hon. Member had talked of the Gentlemen at that side of the House following some lead r. He (Mr. Hutchin• son) knew no leader there. He denied they had a leader. They looked, indeed, to the distresses of the' People— to their financial difficulties, their nume rous grievances, and their oppressive treatment.— They condemned the conduct of those Ministers who had reduced the People to this situation, and who, instead of alleviating, were aggravating their dis tresses. They deplored the policy of those Mi nisters abroad as well as at home, because they thought both injurious to the character and true in terests of the country—(Hear, hear) —The more the People became impoverished, the greater the extra vagance which pervaded the system of Ministers. If , the Noble Lord persevered in grants like these, the, result would eventually be, that the People of the country, who, notwithstanding what was said By their calumniators, were, he was convinced, disposed to be good and loyal subjects, would be by their wants goaded on to madness—(Hear, hear).—lnstead of their being peaceable, the pressure of taxation would make them the reverse. This was the inevitable ten-' dency of the system pursued by Ministers. He beg ged pardon of the House; but he was anxious to re-, peat the sentiments he had ineffectually urged on a former night—(Hear, hear). Mr. R. MARTIN, in explanation, denied that he held up the efforts of the Gentlemen opposite to ridi cule. He had conceived the Hon. Member-for Aber deen to have proposed a reduction of the pay ; and he had put the question gravely, and not in ridicule, to ascertain whether such an intention met the sup port of Hon. Gentlemen opposite. General FERGUSON left it to the Hon. Member to reconcile his conception of what had fallen from his Hon. Friend, with what had been actually said by him—(Hear, hear). Mr. WILBERFORCE having been prevented, by indisposition, from attending the debates upon the' question now before the House, wished to sate the general principles upon which he intended to give his-vote. He could not but wish that the military establishments should be somewhat lower than the Estimates which they were called upon to grant — (Hear). —He could not but think so on account of the distressed state, he must call it the impoverished state, of the country—( Hear ).—He believed that some reduction might be effected in the Home ser vice, but not in the Colonies. He could not think that the House would be doing its duty by voting the whole of the Estimates—(Hear). Mr. W. SMITH said, that there never had been a time when our foreign Colonies were more safe, and that such a force would be sufficient as would pro. tea them from a coup de main. From India to North America none of our Colonies were in the smallest danger. The foreign garrisons were the most expen• sive of all, and a reduction there would be more beneficial than in any other branch of the service.— A reduction in them would else diminish the relief force at home. He hoped that Ministers of them selves would diminish the military establishment, . , though they might succeed in the present vote. Lord PALMERSTON said, that in New South Wales a regiment had been augmented from 600 to, 1,000 men ; and there had been two regiments sta tioned in Heligoland. The average number of troops' that would be ineffectual from reliefs, would be above 3,000 men. One of the first military' autho rities in the country had stated the Waggon Train to be indispensably requisite. Ten thousand two hun dred and fifty rank and file were to be deducted from the number of troops, and 60,000 was the real dis posable number. Mr. CALCRAFT said, that when the Honse gave 70,000 men, it was the lank of Ministers if the troops did not amount to that number; 91,355 men would be the amount of the force, including the Army in India. He thought 24,000 enough tor Great Bri tain, and 18,000 for Ireland. The House divided.—For the Amendment, 46 Against it, 116.—The other Resolutions were then agreed to. COUNTY COURTS. Lotd ALTHOItI'E moved the secoad - reading of the County Courts 13ill. Mr. LOCKHART agreed in the principle of the Bill, to take away from the Coert of Kings Bench the power of trying certain petty causes ; but though he agreed to the principle of the Bill, he wa. by no means clear that the pls., of the Noble Los On creating a uew Tribunal, wtis the mode best adapted to coil that principle into effect. He thought that the Qoar- ' ter Sessions would be a much better Tribunal for' trying causes to the amount of £.15. He should rot oppose the second reading of the Bill, but in a future stage he should either oppose the Bill in lobo, or trans fer the jurisdiction to the Quarter Sessions, ac a nets• Tribunal would not satisfy the people. • Mr. F. PALMER said, that as a Magistrate atterd ing the Quarter Sessions, he must protest against the additional burden proposed to be imposed on them. Mr. CHETWYNDE stated the Quarter Sessions to be already overburdened, and if additional burdens should be imposed, it would be necessary to have a stipendiary Magistracy, the greatest evil that could befal the country. He most oppose that part•of the Bill that went to impose any additional burdens on the County. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL thought the Bill objectionable, though he would not oppose it in this stage. The salary of a Barrister officiating in such a Court would be £5OO, and that expense, together with that of suitable Officers, would be very consi derable. Such Courts would give rise to a new set of Attornies, who would attend solely to such Courts, and great encouragement would be afforded to liti gation, from the cheapness with which it could be carried on. The Bill was exceptionable in•all its de tails ; and to be of any utility, must come a new Bill `out of the Committee. Lord ALTHORPE said, as the HonouraSle Gen _ tleman had objected to the principle of the Bill he did not wish to go into the Committee to fill up the blanks. He fully agreed in what had been stated, that it was impossible to throw any additional bur then on the Quarter Sessions. He should have no objection that Counsel should be employed if the parties chose. Ile had received a letter from a Gen tleman stating, that having been cast in 20s. in the County Court, the bill of his opponent's Attorney had come to £56, and his own Attorney's to Such a state of the law loudly called for-alteration and reformation. Mr. CAMPBELL was in favour of the 13111, which he hoped would be allowed to go to a Committee. Mr. J. P. GRANT supported the Bill, and argued in favour of it, from the practice of the Sheriff Courts in Scotland. Mr. MANSFIELD stated the county rates to be very light, and in the county of Leicester never ex-1 ceeded a penny in the pound. He was in favour of the Bill. The Bill was then read a second time, and commit ted for Monday ; as was the Public Notarys' Bill. IRISH TYTHES. Sir H. PARNELL, in moving the second reading of the Irish Tythe Leasing Bill, said, the measure was precisely the same as that brought in two Ses sions ago. He should now propose the second read ing, that the Bill should be printed, and lie over for further consideration. Sir G. HILL opposed the Bill, and complained of the proposition for reading so important a Bill as this before it had been printed, and in the hands of Mem bers for their consideration. Mr. S. RICE was in favour of the Bill being now read a second time, and then piinted. Mr. LOCKHART supported the Bill, which be considered calculated to do much good in Ireland by putting an end to vexatious litigation on the subject of T) ales. Mr. STUART supported the Bill. Sir H. PARNELL argued in favour of the Bill, and again urged the second reading. Mr. HUTCHINSON vas in favour of any mea sure which went to regulate the Tythe system of Ire-i land—the most litievous and disgraceful to Ireland of any system existing in that country. Mr. P. MOORE supported the Bill, and desired it should go to a Committee to be considered. The Bill was then read a second time, and committed fbr this day week. Sir G. HILL then proposed that the Bill should be printed. Upon this motion, a conversation took place $ when the motion was ultimately negatived. The. Mutiny bill was brought in, read a first, and ordered to be read a secohd time on Monday. The Max Manufacture Encouragement Bin was read a third time, - • , and passed. - Mr. LUSIIINGTON laid on the table Accounts of the num ber of amps for Bills of Exchange and Promissory Notes re turnedlo the Stamp Office not tiled. Alr. H. CLIVE laid on the table a Return of the number of Persons prosecuted for Forgeries of the Notes of the Go vernor and Company of the Bank of England.—Ordered to be printed. The Committee on the Husbandry Horse Tax was postponed till to-morrow. Mr. BEN E'l'T presented two Petitions irons the Laud.. holders of Wiltshire, on the subject of Agricultural Distress.— Laid on the table, and ordered to be printed. The Northumberland New County Jail Bill was read a third time and passed. Mr. DUGDA LE brought in a Dill for a better mode of pu nishing juvenile offenders stealing privately in shops and dwel- Ung-houses.—llead a first time, and ordered to be printed. Mr Al. W. RIDLEY postponed his motion relative to the continuance of Composition in lieu of Assessed Taxes, to this day fortnight. Mr. WII I TMORE presented a Petition from the Clergy of the Town of Britigenorth, and its Neighbourhood, praying the Mouse not to pass into a law the Bill now pending for the relief of Roman Catholies.—Laid on the table, and ordered to be printed. The other Orders were disposed of, and at Half-put Twelve the Haase adjourned. • PUBLIC LIBRARY, CONDUIT-STREET.—We are re quested to state, that the Best Addenda to the New Catalogue of this extensive and valuable Library, containing every recent interesting Work in the English, French, and Italian Languages, is now in course of delivery, gratis.—By the arrAngenientr re cently adopted at this Library, a Class has been established which secures to Subscribers the immediate perusal of every new Work desired, as well as the right of directing the purchase of any Work of general interest not previously added to the Li brary ; arrangements which have long been considered a desi• deratunt in such establishments, and which render the accom :nodations at this Library superior to those of any private collection ' however large, and at a far less expense.—Cards of Terms to be had on application. No BLUNDER I !!—Our brothers of the sister king dom have the name of blundering, and are allowed to speak twice; but it was no blunder their buying the whole of one of the £21,000 Prizes in the present Lottery, as the entire of 2,053, Class A, £21,000, was sent to Dublin; and whether it is owing to the foregoing success, or To-morrow (Saturday) being the day of their Saint, on which day the Lottery en tirety finishes, we are not aware, but from the num- 1 ber of Irish adventurers. and orders from all parts of Ireland for Tickets and Shares, we should not be surprised if they expect to speak twice to a £21,000, or even as one of them, who s rote to an Offi..e. keeper, expressed himself, desiring Theo. Tickets, said, `. I hope you will get me the 7'h, cc Twins Next Saturday,' 'alluding, no doubt r to the Three £zl,ooo, which nntst.be drawn To-ctouttow. ACSTRI,LV .VINDICATION. • (from Altevrean Ohscrrer.) VIRNNA, mAnovic c:pcur.Aß /Hire or THE CoIINTS of AUsTRIt. RUSSIA, AND PltVss'A, TO THE HINIsTFRB AND CHARGER • D'Al ?AIRE:. AT I H L.DERMA s Ai:l/8011TM RN CODRTs. " Informed of tie false and txtr ; .v.‘gant repo: t respecting the abject and the results of the conferunces at Tzoppau, which ma levolent persons have put in circubtion, and the credulous have further disseminate-1, the Allied Courts cotwider it to he. neces sary to give authentic explanatitm. to th.tir Aaniotra at Foreign Courts, to enable them to correct th, enimakes and false opinions occasiou:d by these reports. The ant..setl short view furnilhey you with the means. It is not designed to; a foremost commu nication. You Will cote.rder, with the Ambass Actors of the other Courts, the step to he taken on this occasion." TitorpAu, DECEMBER 8. RBORT VIEW OF TILE FIRST imstlLTic OF TUE CON FEREscEs AT TROPPAU. The events of the Bth of Audi, in Spain ; of the 2d of July, in Naples; and the catastrophe of Por tugal, could not but excite a deep feeling of uneasi ness and sorrow in all those who are bound to pro vide for the security of States, and, at the same time, , to inspire them with a desi:e to unite, and jointly to take into consideration how to eradicate all the evils which threatened to break out over Europe. It was natural that these feelings should especially influence those Potters who had lately conquered the Revolu tion, and now saw it raise its head anew ; and it was equally natural those Powers, in order to oppose it for the-third time, should have recourse to the same means of which they had made so successful a use in the memorable contest which freed Europe from It yoke it had borne for twenty years. Everything en couraged the hope, ,that this union, founded in the most dangerous circhmsrances—crowned by the most splendid success—confirmed by the negotiations of 1814,1815, and 1818—as it had prep:fred,founded,and completed, the peace of the world—as it delivered the . European Continent from the tyranny of the Revolu tien, would also be able to check a no less tyrannical, no less detestable power—the power of rebellion and crime.—These were the motives, this the object of the conferences at Troppau. The former are so evident. that they want no farther explanation ; the latter so salutary and honourable, that the wishes of all honest persons will doubtless attend the Allied Courts in their noble career. " The task which the m ‘ ost sacred obligations im pose on them is great and difficult, but a happy pre. sentiment lets them hope, that they shall attain their object in the unalterable maintenance of fhe spirit of those Treaties to which Europe owes peace and the union between its States. " The Powers exercised an undisputed right, when they considered of joint measures of precautions against States, in which an overthrow of the Govern ment, 'effected by rebellion, even considered only as an example, must give occasion to a.hostile attitude. Towards all legitimate Constitutions and Govern ments the exercise of this right became the more urgent, when those who had come into this situation endeavoured to communicate the misfortune which they had drawn on themselves to the neighbouring countries, and to spread around them rebellion and confusion. In such an attitude, in such conduct, there is an evident breach of the compact which insures to all European Governments; besides the inviolability of their territory, the enjoyment of those peaceful re lations which exclude every reciprocal encroachment. " This incontrovertible fact was the point from which the Allied Courts departed. The Ministers, who could be furnished at Troppau itself with pre cise instructions from their Sovereigns, agreed toge ther, therefore, on the principles of conduct with re spect to States whose form of Government had under gone .a change by force, and the amicable or com pulsory measures which, in cases where a substantial and wholesome influence was to be expected, might bring back such States within the pale of the Union. They communicated their deliberations to the Courts of London and Paris, that these Courts might take them into their own consideration. " As the Revolution at Naples daily takes more root, as no other so nearly and so evidently endan gers the tranquillity of the neighbouring States, and as no other can be_so immediately and speedily op posed, a conviction arose of the necessity of proceed. ing towards the kingdom of the Two Sicrlies, accord ing to the principles above stated. " In order to lead to conciliating measures for .this purpose, the Monarchs assembled , at Troppau re solved to invite the Kiog of the Two Sicilies•to an interview at Laybach—a step, the sole object of which was to free the will of the King from all &s -ternal constraint, and to place his Majesty in the situation of a mediator between his misled People and the States whose tranquillity was*threatened. As the Monarchs were resolved not to recognize Governments which had been produced by open reo hellion, they could not enter into negociations except with the King alone. Their Ministers and Agents at Naples have received instructions to this effect. " France and England have been invited to parti. cipats in this step, and it is to be expected that they will not refuse their concurrence, as the principles on which the' invitation is founded are 'perfectly con• formable to the Treaties they have formerly signed, and, besides, offer a pledge of the most just and peaceable sentiments. " The system adopted between Austria, Russia, and Prussia, is not a new one; it reposes on the same maxims which were the basis of the Treaties by which the union of the European States was founded. The intimate harmony between the Courts which are in the centre of this Union can only gain by it in .strength and duration. The Union will consolidate itself in the same manner as it was formed by the 111onarchsWho founded it, and has been gradually adopted by all tln.se who were convinced of its cvis , dent, now less than ever to be d•rubted advantiges. No further proof is necessary, that neither thoughts of conquest, nor the pretel seen to violate the inde pendence of other Governments in their internal ad ministration, nor the eadeavonr to impede voluntary ' and wise ameliorations, consonant with ti-e true in. serest of nations, has had any share in the resolutions of the Allied Powers. They desire nothing lint to maintain peace, to tree Larope from the scourge of rzsmlution, and to prevent, or to lessen a. far as is their pov.er, the evil which arises from the viulati of all principles of order and morality. Oa them conditions they think them.clvcs entitled, as tlie•re :! ward of their cares and exert oils, to the unanimous • ; approbation of the world."—[llcre fellows the OS, - ici.tl Translation of the British Circular Note.] I 1