Star. — London, England, 1821-03-20 00:00:00

'4. ... _ , ,PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF LORDS, MARCH 19. Mr.Joinczots, from the Office of the Chief Secretary for Ireland, presented an Account of the quantity of English Goods imported., into Ireland during the last year. Mr. Wincursrea, from the Post-Office, presented an Ac count of the Balances inthe hands of the Deputy Postmasters of Great Britain on the sth of January last. Lord GRANVILLE presented a Petition from the Wool lengdanufacturers of Norfolk, praying for a repeal of the Duties on Foreign Wool. The Earl of DARNLEY moved that certain Papers relative to Stationery in Ireland, which he had moved for on a former day, be printed.—Ordered. The Earl of MACCLESFIELD presented a Petition front the Mayor and Corporation of Oxford against the Catholic Claims. Lord ROLLE presented a similar Petition from the City of Exeter. The Flax and Cotton Bill was read a se cond time. The Cochineal Bill, the Glass Duties Bill, and the Silk Bill were committed. The Earl of DARNLEY said he held in his hand a Petition from several Clergymen of the Church of England, praying that the Queen's name might be restored to the Liturgy. This Pe tition was numerously signed ; but since the day he last men tioned the subject to the Muse five other names had been added to the Peti:ion. His Lordship then moved that the Peti tion be read. The Clerk then proceeded to read the Petition ; but The LORD CHANCELLOR observed, that as it consisted of separate sheets of paper, it could not be considered as one Petition ; it was therefore withdrawni--Adjourued. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. JOHNSON, from the Office of the Chief Secretary for Ire land, appeared at the Bar with certain Returns of Salaries and Pensions.—Laid on the table, and ordered to be printed. The Leith and Kinghorn Ferry Bill was read a second time, after a few words from Captain Worm, Mr. Hem, and Sir ISAAC COFFIN. Mr. GOOCH presented a Petition front the Archdeaeonry of Sudbury, against the Catholic Clahns.—Ordered, to lie on the table. Mr. T. WILSON presented a similar Petition from the Clergy incorporated in Sian College.—Laid on the table. Mr. PELHAM presented several Petitions from the Owners and Oceupigrs of Land in the County of Lincoln, complaining of Agricultural I bstress, and praying for relief. Laid on the table. Mr. LITTLETON presented a Petition from certain Iron Workers of Staffordshire, praying that the Roofs of Churches might in future be made of iron—(Laughtee).-•-The Honourable Member made some observations in support of the prayer of the Petition, stating, that every possible encouragement ought to be given to the Iron Trade. Mr. BENNETT preferred roofs of timber, which should be brought from our own Colonies. Mr. CROK ER urged the advantage of making use of Iron in huildiug.—The Petition was laid on the table. Mr. CURWF.N presented a Petition from certain Agricul turalists of Cumberland, complaining of distress.—Laid on the table. Mr. S. WORTLEY presented a Petition from the Merchants of Huddersfield, praying for the Repeal of the Duty on Foreign Wool.—Laid on the table. Lord E. SOMERSET presented a similar Petition from cer tain persons in Gloucestershire.—Laid on the table. Lord JOHN RUSSELL presented a Petitiob from a person named Flanagan, a native of Sligo, in Ireland, complaining of a conspiracy having been formed against hint in that county, for his Activity in suppressing illicit distillation, and alleging that he had in consequence sustained losses, for which he now prayed compensation.—l Add on the table. Mr. MARRY AT presented a Petition from the Ship-owners of Leith, Kirkaldy, and other places, against the Timber Duties. —A conversation on the subject took place between Mr. Mat lITAT, Mr. S. WONTLLY ' Mr. WALI.ACF., Sir T. Acorn, Mr. VAILILE, and Sir J4112i Nawroar.—The Petition was ordered to lie on the table. A Petition was presented from the owners and occupiers of land in the Hundreds of Coleridge, complaining of Agricultu ral Disteets, and praying for relief.—Laid on the table. Mr. W. COURTNEY presented a Petition front the Mayor and Corporation of Exeter, against any further concessions to the Roman Catholics. He felt it but due to himself to state, that he entirely differed with the Petitioners in the sentiments they held on this subject. He indeed regretted this, because he owed to the Petitioners the honour of a seat in that House. But it could not be expected that he should abandon opinions conscientiously formed, merely because they happened to dis sent front them. lie saw no danger whatever in passing the Bill which was now in progress through the house; un the con trary, he thought that the adoption of the measute would not only tend to the tranquillity of the country, but would give sta bility to the Protestant religion—(Hear).—The Petition was laid on the table, and ordered to be printed. The Marquis of TAVISTOCK presented a Petition from certain persons in Bedford, friends of civil and religious liberty, praying the House to sanction the-Bill which was brought in for removing the disabilities under which the Roman Catholics la boured.—Ordered to lie en the table. THE CURRENCY. Mr. BARING said, he held in his hand a Petition respecting the Currency, signed by a number of very respectable merchants of Liverpool. Though not entirely concurring himself in the views they enter tained on the subject, yet-he thought that the Peti tion was worthy the attention of the House. It ex pressed a wish that a currency should be established, which should to a certain degree correspond in value with that upon which they had formed engagements previously to the period when an alteration took place, in order that they might be enabled to meet those engagements. It also prayed that payments in bullion should be made, upon whatever standard the House in its wisdom should consider most expedient. Mr. ELLICE "said, he had never yet seen any Pe tition in which all the evils arising from the Paper System were more clearly shewn, than in that now before the House. Mr. BIRCH. did not agree in the opinions ad vanced by the Petitioners, but he thought that the House ought to pay every attention to the Petition, as the pasties were highly respectable.—The Petition was read, and ordered to lie on the table. • CATHOLIC DILL. Mr. PLUNKETT, in calling the attention of the House to the relief of the Roman Catholics, did not rise upon the present occasion to create any discus sion with respect to the proposition which he had to submit. Since the Bill had been read a second time, he had adopted various suggestions, and he felt it his duty to pay the greatest possible attention to any alterations which might be deemed either necessary or advantageous. Certain new clauses had been sug gested, and he should now propose that the House resolve itself into a Committee, with the view to these clauses being formally inserted. He wished that the discussion should be postponed till after the Report was placed in the hands of Members, and the Bill -recommitted. The clauses did not make the slightest alteration either in the principle of the Bill or in its details ; nor would any great time be necessary to give them due consideration. It had been stated to him by a Right Honourable Gentleman opposite, that it would be better to have the explanation with re spect to the supremacy of the Pope incorporated in the oath which the Roman Catholic was to tale, rather than it should remain distinct from it; and he (Mr. Plunkett) was willing to acquiesce in the suggestion. The Right Hon. Gentleman then moved, 16 That the House do now resolve itself into a Committee on the Roman Catholic Disabilities Removal Bill." Sir JOHN NICHOL had no objection to agree to the proposition of . the Right Hein. Gentleman, if it was intended to go no further than the length he had represented. He certainly thought that it would be much better to see the Bill -in a detailed shape; but he wished to know from the Right Honourable Gentleman; at what time he intended it should be re. committed ? The subject was one of peculiar itn portance, and ample time ought to be allowed for considering it maturely. As the House had divided on the principle of the Bill, no interruption ought to be thrown in tits way of the Committee ; but as the. question involved matters of more importance to the Constitution than any which had been brought forward since the Restoration, or at least since the Revolution, ample time ought to be given for look ing at it in all its bearings. It was extremely im portant, as it went to alter the character of the Con stitution; he would say of the Constitution as esta blished by law, for he knew of no other; he had no conception of a Constitution in the abstract—a Con stitution founded on the Rights of Man or onlJni versa' Suffrage—( Hear, hear).—The British Con stitution excluded Roman Catholics from political power, but the present Bill placed every political office within their reach, making only two excep tions. There was another consideration which was to be duly regarded. A change of so much moment ought to be made with satisfaction to all parties, and a large portion of the Protestant communion ought to be reconciled to it. These were two very essen tial points. He did not see that the Bill ought to be hurried into a Committee before the Easter recess— (Hear, hear from the Opposition Benches). --It was by no means his wish to excite angry feelings with respect to the question, nor did he feel anything like asperity towards those who supported it ; but he thought that the House ought to see its way clearly before it went into the Committee. In his opinion, if it stood over for another Session, it would be better—( LoAd cries of Wear, hear, filial the Opposition) ; at all events, a convenient time ought to be allowed. Air. PLUNKETT felt assured that the House would indulge him while he said a few words in reply to what had fallen from the lion. and Learned Gentleman opposite. The only question that now remained to be considered was, as to the time when the Committee should take - place ? He silts not, on the present occasion, to be drawn into the discussion of au important question which had nothing what ever to do with the Bill—a question as to the nature . of our Constitution, whether it was one of mere law, or whether it involved principles not sanctioned by legal enactments. He might possibly differ with the lion. and Learned Member upon this subject, for he held that the Constitution was not one of mere law, but involved in it principles quite distinct from written authority. If we had only a paper Constitution, lie 'did not know that it would be so valuable as that which we now possessed, nor would Roman Catho lics be so anxious as they now were to participate in all its advantages—(lkar, hear).—The Hon. and Learned Member first had said, that no interruption ought to be thrown in the way of the Committee, yet he first proposed a delay till after the Ester recess, 'and then till the next Session—(Laughtei).— Now, this was very singular, considering the decisions which the House had already come to. An amend ' ment for reading the Bill that day six months had been negatived by the House, yet the Hon. and Learned Gentleman would now suggest an amend ment for reading the Bill this day twelve months— ( Hear, and a laugh).—He would not follow the Hon. and Learned Gentleman in the extensive field of argument which he had opened ; it would be un seemly in him to do so on the present occasion.— Nothing was farther from his wish than to take the country by surprise; but surely he could not be ac cused of any such intention, when the period was considered since the question was first brought for ward—(Hear).—No point could possibly arise that bad not already been amply discussed. He should propose Wednesday as the most convenient day for the Bill to be recommitted. The only question now was, as to whether the explanation of supremacy should be independent of, or incorporated with the oath ? This was the chief point to be discussed. He was better pleased to go into the discussion at once, than to lose any more time. There was no period of personal accommodation which he would not wil lingly grant to the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, but it would be recollected that there were others whose time was not to be trifled with. Many iVlem. hers had remained in town at great inconvenience to themselves, for no other reason than to give their votes upon this most important question. Sir WILLIAM SCOTT could not agree to Wed nesday. The time was much too short to allow of sufficient delibetation upon a question so momentous. The Right Honourable Gentleman talked of Mem bers teluititting in town at great inconvenience; but would the Right Honourable Gentleman consider that there were, in that House, Members who had professional and judicial engagements to attend to, and that the difference of a day or two to these was of considerable importance ? He hoped he should not be considered as going too far, if he named Mon day next, or perhaps Weduesdarsennight—(Hear). Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, that the alterations which his Right. Honourable Friend had proposed did not affect the principle of the Bill; they merely. concerned its detail, and had grown out of the de bate of a former night. They introduced no new matter, and the House was as well prepared to die ! cuss them now as it would be at any future period. .He hoped, therefore, that his Right Honourable Friend would not postpone the Bill beyond Wednes 'day—(Hear,hear). Sir T. LETHBRIDGE said, he was aware that there was already very great agitaticin in the coun try upon this question--(Lau Titer)—and that he was satisfied that in a short time it would be still greater (Continued laughter). Since it was a matter of cour tesylhat they should consent now to the Speaker's leaving the Chair, he thought he was entitled, as a matter of courtesy also, to ask the Right Honoilr able and Learned Gentleman for a little further de lay ; that courtesy was, he thought, due from the Right Honourable Gentleman: The questiop was one of the greatest. importance. The division of the other night 'hewed that at least the opinions of this great Assembly were nearly equally divided upon it, and this reason alone would, he hoped, operate upon. thellight Honourable Gentleman to allow a delay at least to Monday. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER con-' ceived the time beiwitu this and Wednesday too short, and he hoped the Right Honourabl e Gentle man would concur in the suggestion of ;his Right Honourable and Lealeed Friend near him . , and fix Monday for the recommitmen t of the Bill—(l No, no, Friday,' front several Members). Mr. HUTCHINSON considered the delay to Wed nesday as quite sufficient. The Honourable Mem ber for Somersetshire had talked of difference of opi nion and agitation existing in the public mind on this subject. He knew of no such agitation, and he was far from wishing to insinuate that the Honourable 'Member had any wish to create any such agitation., Delay, however, could have no other effect than to produce it. Ile (Mr. Hutchinson) thought no delay should take place in the discussion of this question. . Mr. PEEL hoped the Honourable Gentleman who spoke last would see that there was no wish, in the discussion of this question, on the part of its 0pp0 . .. nents, to take advantage f any weapon except fair discussion. He, for one, disclaimed any wish to take advantage of any opinion out of, doors; but he was persuaded the delay now asked would serve the cause of the Bill itself. The Right Honourable Baronet . (Sir John Newport) had said this proposition was only for delay ; but he would put it to the Right Honour able Baronet, whether the delay asked was too much, when it was considered that the object of the new clauses was to decide how far the Pope was to have a share in the allegiance of the Roman Catholics? And would any one say that was not a question de-, serving the utmost consideration? He asked for no unnecessary delay ; but lie would ask, whether a de lay of four days, after the reprinting a Bill, going to alter the oath of allegiance, was too great a delay? Dr. PHILLIMOIIIfwas against the delay beyond Wednesday.. If any agitation existed in the country on this subject, as Legislators, it was their duty not to delay the progress of the measure, but to dispose of it as soon as possible. He denied that any mate rial alteration was contemplikted by the new clauses on the contrary, their substance had been discussed over and over again. Ile was desirous not to delay beyond Thursday. Mr. PEEL said, some mistake seemed to exist as to the operation of this Bill. The Ilon. MemlAt .ippeaxed to think this Bill was to put the Catholic iit the same situation as the Dissenter, and make him liable to the operation of the Annual lndemriaty Bill; buk,. in fact, as he understood it, .the Bill was to re lease the Catholic from the operation of that Act, arid place him in the same situation as a Member of "the Church of England. Mr. M'ETHERELL was in favour of delay be- yond Thursday. Mr. TIERNEY thought delay heyopd Wednes day unnecessary. If delay was granted to Friday, as the discussion' would probably occupy two nights, that wouhi carry it over to Monday. Ile could not consent to any unnecessary delay; he gave the Gen tlemen opposite credit for their assertions that they did not desireto excite agitation, but the'delaj of the Bill could only have that effect, as they had seen, on. more than one occasion, that parties out of the House might be found who had the power to agitate the public mind at, any, time. He considered delay be yond Wednesday as uncalled for. , Lord CASTLEREAGH was perfectly of opi nion that there was nothing to call for delay beyond Wednesday ; but as he would be sorry to excite ani mosity against the measure, he would not press for that day; Thursday had been mentioned, but if it would not be unparliamentary, he would allude to there being a Drawing-room on that day—(t fear, hear). —Perhaps it would be more regular to say that Something would occur on that day in another place, which might render it difficult to make a 'House.— Monday was out of the question; but, under all the circumstances, he' -would say Friday should be the day(liear, hear). PHILLIMORE, in explanation, said he con-' sidered this *Bill would only place the Catholics in the same state us the Dissenters. Mr. C. WYNN thought there would be no danger of making a House on Thursday, and therefore was in favour of that day. Mr. CROKEIt said, he. had on a former evening given notice of his ir.tention, on the Bill going into a Committee, to pmpose a provision for the Catholic Clergy ; but as the Bill was now only to be commit ted, pro, forma,. he should delay bringing forward his proposition till the Bill was recommitted. He eon= sideied the subject to which he had alluded, how ever, as one of the most paramount importance, and he would now, with the permission of the House, propose his Resolution, and have it printed, that it might be in the hands of Members. Mr. COURTENAY was sorry to hear the decla ration of his Hon. Friend's intention to propose so important a question as that to which he had alluded, as it might endanger the Bill. Mr. CROKER had no intention to propose any thing to the House, except that they'should recognize a certain principle. He was persuaded, that, with out some such measure, the Bill would not be satis factory eitber to Protestants or Catholics. He thought they should not legislate to give privileges to the Catholic Laity, without making some provi sion for the Clergy.—The Bill was then committed. The House having resumed, Mr. PLUNKETT said, that he had every wish to accommodate his Right Hon. Friend the Member for Oxford ; but Is the sense of the House seemed to lean the other way, he must name Thursday. Mr. GOULBURN had entertained no doubt that Friday would have been fixed; if it should not, he must take the sense of the House. - Mr. PLUNKETT then named Friday for the re committal of the Bill. Mr. CROYER fixed the same day for his motion. PETITION OF THE REV. RICHARD HAYES. Sir GEORGE HILL said, that the Hon. Member for Aberdeen had; a few nights since, presented a Petition signed by a Roman Catholis Clergyihan ' of the name of Richard Hayes, against the Bill now be fore the House for the Emancipation of the Roman Catholics.- He wished to know why it was that the Hon. Gentleman did not at the same time move that the Petition should Ix printed ? . Sir JOHN NEWPORT said thattheßouse would , recollect, certainly many of them Were aware, that the person who signed the Petitioti id question, Raman Catholic Clergyman himself, had yet acted so improper and so reprehensible a part, as to havi provoked the reprobation of his Holiness the Pop e __ (Hear, bear).—when, therefore, he came lorwmd to throw an impediment in the way of this salutary measure, the House would consider who he w. the# would not forget that he was a person r e p ro , bated by the Head of his Church. Was it.to th e o h. jections of such a person that the R , ght Honou ra m e Baronet (Sir George Hill) attached any valu e ? if so, the House, he (Sir John Newpott) wa s al% would not follow his example. Considering th e ex _ alted station of the Pope—considering his age— t be mild virtues of his character, one would have sup. posed that Pius VIL would have been protectedf roi c insult, at least from a Clergyman of the Church it Rome. To such an extent, however, did the cAdu e t of Mi. H a yes go, that he called down upon his heal Lie heaviest marks of the Pope's reprobation, wi th those marks upon him, he modestly came ho me t he Legislature to state his objections against a closure which had for its object the tranquillity and the f ree ; dom of Ireland—the strength, and union, and glory of the whole Empire. Mr. HUME said, that he had presented the p c i,, .tion, though he declared that he differed in opinion with the Petitioner, and would not support the pray of his Petition.—The motion, that the Petition bt printed, was then agreed to. TUE QUEEN. Lord A. H AMILTON remarked, that froma Papa on the table it appeared that the sum of £46,000 charged for the expense of proceediiigs ag a i nst h e Majesty. He had always understood, that the charge for the Milan Commission was paid out of the Sinking Fund ; and he wished to know whether, if he mor t al for the details of that charge, he should get at the whole expense of that Commission, or of wh.,t p art of it? In the next place, he would ask, wheth er , 04 the other side, any objection would be made to a see. ate motion for the micute details—the sum total, the persons to whom, and the purposes for which the • items were paid? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER Tv plied, thit the £4(i,(X)O did not include the whole expense of the late proceedings. The whole even: appeared on the face of other documents also oe t h e table. He had no objections to produce, *slues they could he ascertained, and as far as they weld be- disclosed with propriety, the details of the ex.' penses of proceedings against her Majesty. lien Majesty had required not to be called upoe Ice the details of the mode in which she had expended pats of the money granted for her defence. Lord CASTLEREAGH referred to the edit • which these accounts must undergo at the Imago* . •The items of charge on bath sides would undergo the. _ same examination. Dr. I.USHINGTON observed, that the Hoi • would be aware how. impossible it or'as lit her M a . jesty to furnish all the details of the eipesditwesh; had' incurred, and the same' difficidtiei l eant equally on the other side—(fkar).—Some .of items it might be unfit to submit to.the hear).—The Crown had been able to obtain intelligence by its regular 'couriers in:many cars, while the Queen hid been obliged Le employ ip . etial messengers, which of itself would foim no incnosv.... derable item of charge—tllear, liar)--As to the sum taken from .the Sinking fund, be should be aorry to sanction such an employment of the money,. and he had great doubt' whether the sectet service money were so applicable, • Lord A. HAMILTON then gave notice, thet a Wednesday sennight he should moye for-the demi* of the expenses of the Milan Commission, with asp* ment of the Funds from which they were paid, • RUSSIAN TARIFF. Mr. BERNAL requested to know froth. theNcidi Lord opposite, in what state the commercial isaer course between Russiirod England was, respect* the duties on sugar? Lord CASTLEREAGH replied, that the sallied was under consideration between the twoGovemnian. Mr. WARRE said, it was very important iCrtle colonial interests of the country to have-an ineaki made reipecfing the new additional duties impaled upon refined sugar, according to the Rusin Tat lately published. What he wished to know was , whet ther the Emperor of Russia had given any direction to his Minister here to settle the question of ddl6 alluded to in the Tariff? Lord CASTLEREAGH stated, in reply, We believed the Emperor of Russia had referred dopy ticular subject to his Minister for the considetaded commercial matters, who had not yet made lligo port. The-subject was, at any rate, still under& cussion between the two Governments, and be a not at all despair of an eventually favourable W. BANK CASII PAYMENTS. On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of tie EXCHEQUER, the House went into a on the Bank Cash Payment Act. The IhillgtH, Gentleman stated, that in calling the atteetio_tr House to the subject of the Currency , it Was intention to enter. into any question of od's nomy, or discuss the nature or the measures formerly adopted by the take it for granted that the condi upon this great question had been in bringing about a gradual restoration ments. In February, 1820, the taken, by payments in bullion, and the Act, On the Ist of May, 1823, longer to pay in ingots, but in specie. a power, at their own discretion, ' issue of cash on the Ist of May, 1, present was, to enable the Bank to May, 1821, what by the Act of Pat not obliged to do till the Ist of M; Bank, by-the Act, was allowed' their notes only ; his object was, to issue specie for any purpose wh; commencement of the Restriction a power to, make a partial issue; been restrained by the Commit question as to the.circulation of left to the discretion of the Bank. be able to state, that the Bank much: greater sum' in bullion, than contemplation of the Committee. - for another year would he attended convenience to the Bank; and could be re-exported, should it be by the state of the exchanges. The reduction of their notes to the amount agreeably to the recommendation' to 'U let fai ru ni ni on of politic al ecP ;rationf dK e t e ductHfin werliosls ed n t u o s e s e afot n . fp e pd H c ac ieau c bad: 0 • ,ecie. The Bask , l to issue sprig to enable the rhatever. From; n Act, the 1324 ; but that power ‘ lll3 t a : B l : ar 22d i t y d t.: : ,a o b. m , e l yina Be ßl o lt i2is hiacen n t ies . th e tb i: : wasj r r st u, ittee of 181 8 . £1 notes wm d c. He was 1 12 PPI J had accumulat :han had beep° !,„ Thb atcum ended with ten a par t of the P`' be rendered Bank bad iss mount oft 9, NI o f the ColusP )