Star. — London, England, 1803-03-05 00:00:00

Pr Mg:A' OF LORDS, 1 RMAY. MARCH 3. HOUSE OF CONIMONS. PRINCE 07 WALES'S ESTABLISHMENT. P LI:VENT-1R PAUCEEDINGS, %sirs I.me length r.. - lative to the Scotch Appeal. the Niat,;.... of Bute and lord Haihrrt Windlor hts fece.nd v. the Hon. James S:uart \l'ortlry,fe c late rad of Bute, viz. MelTrs..AJezander and ;or •he App..iialits, and the Attorney General and Mr. the Roponskiat. Mr. Alexander was afterwards reply .1, the arguments of Count I were ficifhed, the Lou o ('ass" Ll.ux, who ftuned to have h,, wind made tip as to nor nients of the Cafe, imniediattly mutes d a pmpolition tend ing to affirm the Decree of the Stitch Court, which on the queltkin being put, was ordeed in the affirmative The various Bells before the \err: Cd.v..artied in their .repeettre Rages, in the ermrfe of the Militls Escrcifc Bill went through a Committee of the whole Houtr. The l'Sfarquis.at litsoroar, one of the Irifh Reprefentative Peers. w s (worn and took his feat. Mr. AatzaNnas and others hrought up from the Commons I the Mutiny Bill, and the Ira Revenue Otfizers' Unqualifica tlon not._ sir j. R.Att i or a sox prrfented a Rill of a local .:efer:ptior.-- Thili, Sills were livcrally read a fiat time, artcr which the Hook adjourned tiU Monday. Sir M. W. RIDIAT brought up the report from the Commit tee of Great . Grimfby, Rating that one of the Members bring unavoidably ohligtd to be &Meat, and they having fat three weeks, by gpofent of all parties. they had agreed to requeft Ulm of the Houk to adj ourn to Tuefday next.w.Granted. The Chairman of tit.,ommi , tre fur trying the MClritS of the Tett* Co <he coutetted Elettion for Penryn, reported that 'she Sitting Member was duly elected. The Pill for continuing °main Duties in Ireland ; the irifh S'amp Duty, Hat 'Armee. Curse Certificate, l'ofLiger and Dublin Police Bails were fcverally trod at &it, and ordered to be read afeeomi time on Monday next. Mr. WICIC 11A? , 1 moved for leave to hring in a Bill to prevent vexatious Suits in the fuperior Cowls in .Irelands whereby re. Moir might be Lad in the inforioa Courts by Civil BilL— Granted. Mr. CALCRAFT faid, that before he entered on the fhort fiatement, with which he meant to pre face the propofition he held in his hand, he thought it neceffary to declare, as he had done on a former Might, that he never had any communication on the fubjed with the !nations Perfonage to whoqt it alluded, nor with any other perfon, lave one. However delicate the {Wed might be, he trolled that the method the thould adept in bringing it for ward, was fuck as would not be objeded to by any perfon, of any party whatever. The Melrage which had lately been prefented to the Houfe he confider ed as the language of the Mani(ler, though it was called the Meffage of the Crown, and in that were involved matters which he thought of the greatell confequence, as they related to a fubjea fo impor tant as that of keeping up the fplendour and dig nity attached to the high lituation of the Heir Ap• parent of the Monarchy of this conntry. Sorry he was that what had been done in confequence of that Meffage was not effedoal, GI as to enable the 111 Rrious Perfonage alluded to in it, to reldme that fplendour and dignity immediately, of which he had been fo lnng deprived. To enable him to do this. was his objea in bringing forward the pre test propofition ; and the mode he intended to pur. rue is doing fo, was to move for a Committee to en • into the extent of thole claims which at pre lim casharrafs his Royal Highnefs. and prevent him from manning that exalted rank and Ration, eolith it was fo much to be lamented be had ever opt obliged to relianailb. He espreffeci the tit. spea,moDAdesee that the Hoek will do every thing issoffary towards fo clearable a purple ; and when he confideild his Majefly's Meffage. he was certain that it went further than the. mere voting Rath a fen, as does sot pot the Prince one jot soarer to the refitmption of his dignity than he was before. An Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Erfkine) had, on a former night,' on opening this bakers, (aid that his Royal Highnefs was lititified. He was at all times willing to take that Hon. ?defaces aflu • ranee, but, as a Member of Parliament, he thould ant think himfelfjuilined in taking the alurance even of the Illuftrious Perfonag e to wham he al hided, in a tale of fo prang an urgency as the relent in his opinion was. Feeling, as he did, the prefSng neetility of the Prince's rearming that pate and dignity winch belonged to his exalted fi ltration, it was much better the Houle Mould go Dee Rep farther than it had yet done, by adopting the propofition he had to offer, than Puffer his illuflrinus charaaer to be 11AJle to imputations, which there were too many, would be ready to throw on it, if, after the fins voted iu conk (lattice of the Megage. he hill continued in that Rate of privacy in which lie had already fo lung remained. If n thould be fuppoled there was any vellum of delicacy in infiituting an enquiry into the Prince's Affairs, he was certain the Commitlinners, in 1-,95, went infinitely farther than he intended to do. There donbtlefs was no mode of compellii,g a difclofure of the (late of his Royal Highnefs's Affairs; but if the Com mittee was appointed, and any ohjedion was made ft om that quarter, he and the Houle would hove the fitti%latlion to know, that they had gone as far as they could, and done evel y thing in their power to expAite the with:s of his M. jelly to the fullelt c..tent, and ..s eatly as p.:11- I,: e . Fo r his oi.n pia, he lhoul.l not have under taken th e bonnet:, but that he dims lit he faw au anxious defire in the I Tonle, on a former night, to emancipate his knyal I :mmedjately frost. ' thole enibarraiiments with %%Lich lie was at prelent currnandel While 1 1 / 4 6nifiers were continually holding forth, and while the Houle setae rejoiced • to join them in congratulations to the country on the flourialing Rate in which it now Itands, the rank, the fplendour, and dignity of the licit Ap parent might not to be overlooked. if we were to be fplendiel in our national institutions ; if we prided ontfelves on the magnitude of our under takings, and on the extent of our improvements in arts, arms, manufadure=, and commerce, is the Prince of %Vales aline, laid the Hon. Member, to live in a parlour if '.is palace, and be known to Cie people of this country oniy as a dignified Per frinage in private life He could not fuppufe the Houle would longer endure loch an idea. This was rot a perfonai quctlion by .ioy means. The poblie at large was iii,erefted, :rad deeply interett ed in this Pernin:ige, who is the Hcir Apparent to the Monate!. y , being freny reflored 1 - ) tl at h:e. rank and dignity, is which it is their pride and 0011 to tee hint. ringing forward this maitre, he could alT'ute the Houle that he did not mean the froalleftdifreped to any human creature. He could not but fed for the fituation of the illufirioas Pelt nage to whom his propoti ! tion alluded, who with fo much honour to himfdr had, by the communication he had made to the Houe, candidly acknowledged that, notwith ;land. ing his MajellY's paternal kindnels, and the liberal dilpofition of the Houle, he could not refnme the rank and fp!endour attached to his dignified Ra tion, till certain debts which he thought himlelf bound in honour to pay were diftharged. As an independent Member of Parliament he thought it his duty to appeal to the Houle, to timid forward. at once, and extricate his Royal Higliner, front thufe embarrairments, and this enable him to re• fume immediately that fplendour and dignity, which it was the evident with of his Maleay's Mel (age he fhould do, and which he was certain it was alio the with of a great n,ajority of that 'ionic that 11-.: thould do. lie would not, therchnt, longer tr.:fp:lfs on the time of the Hustle than to read his Motion, which he did to the following purport— That the Hotifr, anxioufly dtfiroui to give full effet' to the important objects contained in His Nlajely's molt gra <-ous hlcitige of the 16th of February, do appoint a Sdat Committee to esquire into the embarrafTments of the PRINCE of %VALI s, and into the molt cffeaual means of relieving them as fredily as in order to usable His Royal Highnefs to refume the fp:endour and dignity attached to his exalted ftadon." Mr. I:KSKINE frill, the Hon. Gentleman who had made the motion had adverted to what he had ifaid on a former night. On that Mahe h e came into the Houle by accident, and on Cif en trance he found an Hon. Member who held an of ficial fituation under the Prince of Wales, reading, in his place to the Houfe, the communication which his Royal Highnefs had thought it his duty to make to them. After that Hon. Member had performed the duty impeded on him, the Honour able Gentleman who had juft fat down gave notice of the motion he intended this day to bring for ward ; and he then, as a fervant of his R.oyal Highnefs, thought it his duty to Rate to the Houfe that the Prince had exprefsly Allred hint lie was I perfectly finished, both with the gracious inten- 1 lions of his Royal Father, and the liberal proceed, ings of Parliament, though he thought it a duty incumbent on him to Rate to them, that he could not for fome time refume that fplendour and dig nity they were defirous he fhould do. At the fame time, he thought it neceffary to add, that the mo tion,ofStrich the Hon. Gentleman had given no tice, was altogether unknown to the Mu hrions per fonage to whom it related ; bee:tufa, as that no tice had been given fo immediately after the corn• munication from his Royal Highnels had been I read, it might have been conceived by the public, had nothiug been Lad of it, that it was made with the Princes privity, and would then have feemed to be at variance with that fatislaeion which he exprelfed Itimfelf to have felt at the proceedings of Parliament. He made this declaration now, he faid, to thew why he had aided as he did, in or der that it might not be thought that he meant to difeountenance the motion. Proud as he was, and ever fhould be, in poffeffmg the confidence, and ading as the fervent of the illuhrions perfonage, to whom the prefent motion alluded, he had (fill a higher charader to fuppolt—that of a Mem ber of Parliament—and as loch, he thought it ne nefrary to give his realms why lie had not fpnken on the fubjed of his Majelly's Meffage. His Ma jelly did not afk any fpecific fum, but left it to the Houfe to decide for fo near and dear a branch I of the Royal Family. The Right Hon. Gentle man who was the organ of the Crown in bringing forward the mealure, had aged with that modera tion which did him the highest honour, ac it (hew ed his defire to comply with the willies of his Ma. I jelly, and at the lame time to make the preffure on the people as light as poffible. As fuck, he did nut think it proper to give any opinion at that time on the fubjee. It does, however, now di/- 611E11y appear, that what is done will not be ef ' fedual. The prelent motion, he laid, was no cen fure on his Maje:ly's Meffage. nor any criticifm on the conduit of Minifters ; if it had been either of thee, he fhould think liimlelf hound to vote againll it His Majelly lays, by his Meliage to the Houfe, enable me to give that which will name dignity to the Prince of Wales; and the Houfe afhired his ; Majeffy, by their addrefs, that they were ready to do fu. The fum, however, voted is not fufficicnt for I the purpole, and the Hon. Member who makes j the prefent motion is defirous to remedy the de fee. This, therefore, is not a propofition from Mi. j Milers, but from an independent Member of Par ' hament ; and its deign is to (hew our defire to port the Monarchy. It is only to fay we defire to give your Majcity more than you aik : in order to keep tip the splendour of the Prince, we defire ' to add to that fum which your Isfajelly's ' I bli niller has aflced and obtained from the liberality;of ' Pain:to:sent. Suppofe the Right Hon. Gentleman had afked any fpecific fum, perhaps it might have roufed the recolleeion of 'blue Members, and in doted them to revert to the cxpences of the War, arid other burdens which certainly prelTed on the people. He role thins early in order to thew, that in the prelent Motion there was no hohility to the Meffige. He was fore the Right lion. I Gentleman's ilifrofition towards the Prince wasnot limited bythe propohtion he had brought forward; I but that if Parliament chofe to add to that fum, he would be as glad as any one to fee the Heir 'I A prat cnt relieved fiom his embarraffments. For his own part, he was happy to think that this hu fluffs would be finally fettled, without the claims I of the Prince having been brought forward. On this head, he had never Paid that thole claims would amount to any fpecific him ; but what he had afferted was, that the Prince of Wales was en titled to the Revenues of the Duchy of Cornwall from his birth : this doerine had never been con , tradieed by any Lawyer in that Houk, and had I received the tacit of ent of Lord Ellenboroogh, who was then Attorney General. It was clear that the reafun of that grant was, for the fuftenta tion and dignity of the Prince of Wales, indepen dent of the King. With regard to the revenues of the Duchy of Cornwall, they had been received • by his Maj etty's Miaiften, and it was oo matter' • whether the Amount Was afcertabted 1, Any particular film ; the fat was, that Whether the public was indebted to the Pi ince, or not, this was undeniable, that. WC now have a Prince 01 Wales at the age of 40, tvlio has been no but then on the public. The Right lion. the Chancellor 1 of the Exchequer had, on a former occation, (tate(' 1 that his Mljelly's Meltrge had nu connetlion with the Prince's claims. The great objet he bad in view, in troubling the Houle on the preicnt occ.i• lion, was, to remove all idea that the Pt ince had any concern or interett in the prelent motion; and he allured the Monte, that lie had no other anxie ty on his mind, than an ardent t.villt that the pub lie mould not flippttie that the Pi ince had received the bounty of the lloufe, and not atfied according to its intentions in granting it, by immediately ie fuming the dignity and fplendor, which were the immediate intention of the grant. Mr. Foil.Eit laid lie had no doubt but that our wif e ancellors, iii their wife inftitutions, mean: to make the Prince of Wales independent of his fa.' ther. What does the Hon. G‘ntleman who made the motion ark ? Only that the enrharraffinents of ' the Prince be enquired into by a Committee of the Houk. What had been the effea of the deduc. l Liens made by the Commiffioners? They had tend ed to accumulate the prelcut debts, which the Prince thought himfelf bound in honour ro pay.— He was alionithed to lee any relu&ance (hewn to fo fair a propofition. as that now under the confi. deration of the Houle. He WAS certain, had iliac items, which had been !truck off by the Commit 'loners, been futmsitted to a Jory of the country, they would have been univerfally allowed. He begged pardon for having expelled himfelf with 1 conliderable warmth ; his feelings would not al. low him tofpeak otherwife, when he races - led that he was arguing in favour of the molt elegant, man ly, and amompliflied Prince in Europe. Mr. CARTWRIGHT laid, when he.confidered Ebel Menage front the Throne, and the communication of the Prince, lie was of opiniva that the Houle would not aft confiltently, did it no: appoint fume filch Committee as was propofed by the Hon. I Member who made the motion. Should he agree to it, he did not confider himfelf pledged to vote 1 a larger funs than that already given. He fhould therefore lupport the motion, though be was ibr from thinking that his Royal Highnefs loft airy of his refpe& in continuing longer that lyttern of pri vatiort and prudence, which In his wificon lie had adopted, until releared from his embarraffmenu. Sir ROSIRT BuKTON laid, that he Should be ex tremely happy to fee the Prince refume the fplen dour and dignity to which his rank id the State fo fully entitled him ; but he then fpnke as a Repre-. 1 tentative of the people, and it behoved him as Inch to be very cautious how he impofed any additional 1 burdens on them. It had been Paid that we were' not now in a flare of war e but are we not, he Aced, in a financial tituation, very fimilar to that 1 of a (tate of war! No raeF have yet been taken cif, except the Income Tax, and, in lieu of that, others had been impofed, which weighed very• heavy on the body of the people,-particularly the Window Tax. He then a(ked, if this was a rime to be laying additional burdens on the people?- 1 He delired the Houfe to look at the prefent tion of France, to confider the. immenfe army (he kept sip, and the gigantic exertions (he was mak ing to render bench the arbitrefs of the whole of Europe. No man wifhed more for the high elle blifhment of the Royal Family titan he did ; but lie thought the Prince would do himfelf more ho nour by giving up the trappings of royalty at this moment, than l-y refurnidg them. For thefe Tea. lons he was In thoroughly convinced of the imprn. priety of the prefent motion, that he thought it his duty to move the previous queftion. Mr. CORR/ k.,4 find, feat he had fripported the motion on the Merrage, from thinking it a debt due to the Prince ; but he could not think of do. ing the lame on the prefent motion, becaufe he did not approve the mode of an enquiry by a Committee. If there were debts due from the Prince, which would prevent him from immedi ately returning the fplendnur attached to his ex alted Ration, let them be brought firm-aid openly; let the amount be Rated to the Bulk, and then the Houfe would be able to judge at once whether they would dill:barge them or not. If they agreed to a Committee, and that Committee, on invelli gat ion, found that the amount was ton great to be dilcharged, it would be holding out hopes to the Mutinous Perfonage alluded to, which perhaps might, in the end, be difappointed. For thefe reasons, he fhould vote for the previous queftion, though he would rather the motion fhould be met by a dared negative. Mr. Hyttraito laid, that, as an Independent Member of Parliament he thyroid vote for the Trio don. He thought the fplendour and dignity of the Heir Apparent to the Monarchy were effentiel to the fupport of our excellent Conftitution, et which that branch formed fo material a part. The Houfe had determined to comply with his Ma jelly's willies, as contained in hit molt gracious Mcfrage, and it was clear that could not be done but by agreeing to the prefect motion ; for the Prince had candidly and honourably fiewn the Honk, by the communication he had made to it, that the cum granted, though entirely fatisfenory to him, would not enable him to refurne imme diately that date of fplendour and dignity which was the dire& objeft and purport of it. In order therefore to fulfil the °Neel of his Majefly's wi(hrs, and to enable the Prince to refume that Rate whir ii feemed to be the general wall of all,he thould vote for the motion. Sir ROBERT BUTTON explained. Mr. Joie:mina Paid, lie role to objea to the motion. He affured the Houle that he felt him. felf as much attached to the Prince, and to every' branch of the Royal Family, as the Hon. Mover, or the Him. Gentleman behind him (Mr.Eilkine): but at the pregenr moment lie could not give his confent to lay any new burdens on the people.— He thought the Prince ought to be confined to the arrangements which were nude in 1795, at which period the Houle was told, that was the Lift time they •hoiild ever be troubled on the glibly:* of his debts. Since that time the Prince had urged his claim to the Revenues of the Duchy of Cm-nwan,, and the itoure had LT:n rti . :: - .tc,lly told that Cm Public were tootiderable del,to! . . to him on th at dceount. He begged the Hotit:- to attend to the Ilatement Ile had to °flat rat th it head i—TO: : whole faro due oat account nl . t!tc a e'ccutie6 of the Duchy of Cornwall was 23A . ,OC)r)1. ; a;,.., - .1:1111 t; : , t there was a fum of 12g,M".;.. - .Which had beet. paSd on his account inyegular payments ; to,ocr.l. oil account of his education ; ,6,0001. to the Duk e oF York; 54,0001. on account of his martiage ; and thine other items, which amounted in the agrc. gate to 510,c001. This fum was to be f": HY agaitill 234,00c1. ; by which it would appear, tha• {,intend of the Public being favoured and Web:aid tit hie Royal Highners, the Prince was aftually a very large fum indebted to tl:e Public. This he th.ught ought to be fairly unieraood, and the Painee Mould be Llrialy confined to the arrange ments made in 1795. At that period there N7:1•1 a very Oiling reafon, wliich did not now exist, fo r granting every Mlittance to the Prince as fo dn . . :ma-Milled a branch of the Royal Family. j a , cotiinitio was then in its fullefl flourish, in its very zenith and plenitude of power ; and it was there fore incumbent on the Hoof,: to grant every of filiance towards maintaining the fplendour and dignity of every branch of the Royal Familt:. At prefent there was no filch thing exilling as j4CO: billiCITI ; and therefore the House ought to be call. . tiouc how it hicrealed the burthens of the people. ,At all everts, if the country be burthened, itougl s f not to be iitfulued by being told that it was 4 -1 3- voured, and greatly indebted to the Pt ince.—r 4 1 cry ordcr ! Oiler ri—Th,, Hon. Metuber faid; he (poke as a man who bad nothing to :ear, mut little to hope. The Prince had aliened his claims as a right, and it had been affetted that the pohlic were greatly hie debut : on the contrary, h.: ho . (liked that he Lad no right-whatever-but what he derived from the booms and liberality of the pub. lic. Fur thefe rei."Sons, he fhould vote for the pre vious quell ion. Mr. H. I. escio.t. ss fail, that he molt give his decided vote aeain't the motion. He was the hill perfon in the is told that would tie any thing that thould appear to throw the frnalleff odium on the.. Prince, but Ise could rot apps ove the mode of ia vettigating the fobjeal by a, pointiog a Curonatttec. If the Prince had come trr ward and openly (fated the full amount of his debts.. the Houle would then have been able to form an exaft judgment on the cafe. and 'nigh: have conic to an immediate &cilium on it ; but this mode 4 enquiry by a Committee he cnuid not apps ore. The claims of the Duchy i f Cornwall teemed to be held o••er the Houle as an Vojta i..: te, 'wen,. There was another point which( he thought ought no: to ekapit the notice of the Home, which was, that it had .Isuen held our that the put.lie was favoured by thole claims Being drops. He was of a ciarti:fry erniens antt he thoup.-,llt it hut tioalit that tits point fluarld be tun in its It sue ligl.t. He concluded by/lying, that he hoped the Prince would aTill the Houk. by iefumitl; the ft leottour and etignity of his tail. ted Itatiou as frectily as arlihle. . Sir W. Gs gar fpoke in favour of the motion. He Paid, be thought it was one of the tirfi ditties of that Houle, to fupport the fplendottr and dignity of the Prince of Wales, the heir apparent to tar Monarchy, and as loch, one of the mull important pillars of the Cool - tin:6on ; that this was the foun dation of the late Motion on this fubjeel ; and unlefs this motion was agreed to, the intent Of the other mull be altogether migstory, for the Prince could not refume that fituation which it was the objet of that meafure to enable liim to d0..1n 'his opinion this was an objeek tO defirable, that how ever brought forward, or at whatever time, it ought to he fupported. The motion Mould there fore have his moll hearty concurrence. Mr. L•sc s Lies laid a feu words in explanation. Mr. Dew r thought, that to agree with the mo t tinn was only common jullice, and what would be approved by the country at large. Mr. 131111)0;: could not give a silent vote on this queftion. - He was fatistieu that the Prince sonikl not, by the Bull now before the Houfe, be en 'bled to refume his (laic and dignity ; hut to enquire into the tit comtlances which impeded that refumption, would, in his opinion, he indelicate. If a Commit tee was appointed. that Comm . -tee would be placed iii a wit v peculiar tituatio... Either it mutt he arin:fl with the ufnal powers of calling for perfons, papers, and teccrds, and thus, perhaps, make enquiries which might hi irkfome to his 1 Knyal Highnefs : or if thee power: were not granted, the Committee would not be able to report tiny thing on which the Houfe could decide. He I did not objet to the motion, becatife he thought it would incur the expellee of a few ciao:rands more than the film which had been voted, but becaufe any farther ill:et-fel-vice of the Houfe with his Royal Highnefs's debts was contrary to the (obit 4 the An of 1 ;qt. On thefe grounds he would vote for the previous quettion. Mr. Tit Pl4l- v was in no degree forty that this queilion had been brought forward ; for the Re port of the Refolution of the Committee on the King's Mefhige had been brought up in a manner which pree.rded him and others fiom (hating their fee timents on that part of the piocecding.— He would briefly explain the ground on which he meant to fupport the motion for an inquire.— Stippofe he were a Country Ocotleman, jolt conie to town, and entering the Hotite for the tit fl fr.: this night, in that flotation he would find on tlx journalshisMajefis 's Metfage. hating his cieti re th A the Prince of Wales should he pinced in a (hate t.f comfort, and enabled to refume that flatinn which became his rank ; la: would rind that his tteLage had been followed up by a Vote tif the Houk. granting 60,0001. a year to his Royal Highnefs : and that a communication had been received from the Prince of Wales, afruriug the Hook that the meafure they had tdopted, in confequcnce of the propofition of Ids Majell)'s Minifiers, would not : enable him to refume his date and dignity. Sup 'poling, after finding all thi: recorded on the Jow -1 nals, that a Gentleman thus arrived from the country should hear the motion of his Hon. Friend, would it not haturaliy follow that he thould think it (ilea to fupport that minion ; but he should with to iroptire what acre the teafons which relented his Loyal Highoefs ii out rcturnieg to that f'ua- PE