Star. — London, England, 1814-07-28 00:00:00

'T P4RI.I4I.ItIENTARr PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF LORDS, JULY 27. In the cause of the Lord Advocate of Scotland v. M , Kentle, the Judgment et the Court below was garotte' as to certain tights at presentation. In the causes of Smith v. Robertson, Laurie v. Laurie, and Smyth v. saunders, the Judgments of the Court below were aisrntt.(l. In t t.e canses of hlountoorris v. White, and Baker v. Merger, the .1041,,nleors of the Courts Mow were rtver-eci. In thr cause of Frazer v. Chishnime, the Judgment of the Court below was reversed, bat it was deferred till to-morrow to fit the terms of the Judgment. lodgment in the cause of Blake v. Vesie was deferred to the llrßt eanse-day after the recess. The Royal Ascent was given by comtrission to the Loan and Loan Amendment Bills, the High 'treason and Corruption et Blood the Stamp Duties and Thames Police Bills. The Earl of SHATTESSURY, and the Marquis of HeavroaDs with the Loan CHANCIMLEIR, were the Commissioners. Several Petitions were presented against the Slave Trade. Lord BROWNLOW -presented a Petition • from several Far mers . complaining of the want of encourzgentent to grew corn. Mr. Him., from the Treasury, presented an Account of the Achttions to the National Debt, during the last LB years, and l'i.pers from the Conindssioaers of Northern Light-hou , es. 'the Agent General's Bill, the Silk Handkerchief Bill, the Hackney-coach Bill, the Scotch University Paper Bill, and the Gunpowder Carriage Bill, were each read a third time. Mr. BROGDEN, and other. Members, brought hum the COM. MODS the Clergy Farming Bill, the Vote of Credit, the Ship Letter and Local Militia ;idle, which were severally read a lint time. GLOUEnTER GAM. The order of day having been read, for taking ito consideration the Petitions complaining of ill treat. went on the part of the Keeper of Gloucester Gail-r' • Fad STANHOPE moved that Mr. Mbgg be called to the Bar. Mr. SAMUEL Mora was then called to the bar, and examined by Earl STANHOPE. He stated that he was an Attorney at Law, at Gloucester; that he had two clientsowned .I—Perrin and J. Yeates, con. fined in Gloucester Prison ; previously to the last Assizes he had applied at the gaol to see Mr.Yeates, and had been refused, principally by Mr. Cunning. ham, the gaoler. Mr. Yeates bad been formerly an attorney at law, and was defendant in a cause at the Gloucester Assizes, in which a verdict had been given against him. Mr. Yeates had since declared that he had lost his cause because he had not bad a private conversation with witness. On the 18th of June last witness applied to see J. Perrin, who was also his client, and was refused by the gaoler.— About this time a letter was delivered to witness by Mr. Yeates ; as witness was taking the letter out of the prison, he was asked by Cunningham, the gaoler, what letter it was ? witness answered, it was a letter from Mr. Yeates to him (witness) ;—Cunningham asked witness to let him see it ? witness gave it him, but bade him open it at his peril. Cunningham how. ever took the letter, and broke the seal, read it, and took a copy of it. On the 18th of the present month witness had had a conversation with Cunningham relative to a lettei sent from Lord Sidmouth, and asked him whether he had not received a letter from Lord Sidmonth, saying, that opening letters from the prisoners was illegal ? Cunningham answered, °whether I have or have not, I shall do as 1 please." .—Since the 18th of the present month witness bad again applied to be admitted to his client, but he had received as an answer from - Simmons, the clerk to the gaoler, that he had received no such authority from Mr. Cunningham; Earl STANHOPE having no other question to put, and no other Peer offering himself, the witness was' crdered to withdraw. Earl STANHOPE then said, that he had proved all which he had wished to prove, and he should leave it to the consideration of their Lordships, whe ther, as such strong facts had been proved, a Cons.' mittee should be appointed to consider of the case, or whether another, course of proceeding, • which he thought best, and for which there were many prece. dents, should be adopted, namely, to order the King's Attorney-General to prosecute the Gaoler. Lord SIDMOUTH began by remarking, that the letter from himself mentioned in the Evidence was sent by him, not to the gaoler, but to the Chairman of the Court of the Quarter Sessions, in whom the power of corm-outing the gaoler resided. He had stated in that letter, that the opening of letters ad, dressed to the prisoners was unlawful, and that the prisoners should have free communication with their legal advisers. Such, he believed, was the general practice, and he should have much doubted, it it had not been stated on oath, that any person who had presented himself in the character of a legal adviser, had been refused admission to a prisoner. There might be extreme cases where it nii&ht be proper to open letters of prisoners, but they should be extreme; 'and he could scarcely conceive any thing that could authorise such a proceeding in the case of a person confined for debt, or for fines due to the Crown. In persons committed or imprisoned for felony, the case might be in some degree different. The existence of the practices asserted by the witness had been denied by very respectable persons, of whom he t Lord Sid mouth) had enquired on the subject. As to theCorn mitne of Enquiry mentioned by the Noble Earl (14:anhope) he should not object to it. tarl S FAN HOPE was glad that the Noble Yts. count had acted so properly on the occasion, by in forming the Magistrates of the illegality of the pro. ceedings complained of; but it was only an aggra vation ci the case (if it could be aggravated) that* general attorneys were admitted tA their clients in r t e gaol in question—because it followed, that not only there was a bad rule, but that it was partially tamed up : for it had been stated at the Bar, on that in a particular case an attorney bad been refused adattanee, and the evidence had been deli vered in so unexceptionable a manner, that no Peer had even thcught ht to croseexamine the witness.— He should proceed with a motion for inquiry, if the Noble Viscount (Sid:mouth) did not pledge himself to make an inquiry, and proceed, if ME tracts turned ee.; :but as they appeared at preseut from the evidence, to take such proper measures as were in -the power of Government; fur it would not be proper that people a this country should be left under lock and key to be so tormented. Lord SIDMOUTH seated, that whether or no the Noble Earl proceeded to move for a Committee, lee should feel it I.is duty to inquire into the circum stances of the case, which had been quite differently represented to him by the Magistrates,- win, had sta ted, that access bad never been denied to legal ad. visors. He had also a letter in his pocket Iron, one pf the Petitioners to the House, who had represented \ c, tills matter quite differently from that In which he had stated it in his Petition. Earl STANHOPE said, that if it turned out that abuses had prevailed, he hoped that the Noble Vis count would proceed not very smoothly against the offenders. What information the Noble Viscount had received from these Magistrates and others was not worth one nib of a straw in opposition to the evi dence taken at the bar. The Magistrates might have heard and believed that no obstacle had been thrown in the way of the admission of the legal advisers of the prisoners, but a case had been fully proved at the bar to the contrary. He should leave to the respon sibility of the Noble Viscount the further considera tion of this important subject. Lord HOLLAND said evidence was of great im portance, and thought it should be printed. The evidence was accordinglyordered to be printed. SLDITIOUO MILIZTINGS BILL. The order upon which their Lordships were sum moned being read, Viscount SI DMOUTH, pursuant to his notice, rose to move the second reading of this Bill. He prefaced the motion by a luminous and forcible speech, in the course of which he stated, that the powers to be given by the measure would not be re quired by his Majesty's Government, except under the fullest conviction of their necessity. The situa tion of Ireland was unhappily of too much notoriety to need much illustration of that necessity ; and in the repeated discussions which the subject had - undergone in another place, an unanimous anticipation of the urgent expediency of such a measure prevailed. His Lordship then referred to a variety of documents in his possession, several of which he quoted, in order to shew the nature and extent of the outrages and atrocities committed in several parts of Ireland, but particularly in the counties of Westmeath and Tip. perary, and the consequent necessity of some vigo rous and decisive legislative provisions as were pro posed by the Bill in question. He also adverted to the oaths proposed and taken by the sanguinary fiords of depredators previous to and since the con clusion of the war. He knew all these, in an inci pient state, could not pull down or destroy the Con stitutional Government of Ireland ; but certainly it was the duty of the Legislature not to shut its eyes against the real dangers to which the lives and , properties of his Majesty's subjects in that country' were hourly exposed. He then proceeded to an ex position of the nature and extent and provisions of the Bill (statements which have been repeatedly be. fore our Readers). The measure was not novel, nor even so strong as former measures adopted for simi lar objects, when perhaps an equal necessity did not exist as now for strong provisions; and he adverted to the Bill found by his Grace of Wellington (then Sir Arthur Wellesley), in the office of the Chief Se cretary for Ireland, upon which the present measure was framed. If it were asked why the present mea sure was not proposed at an earlier period, he would, answer, it was in consequence of the reluctance of his Majesty's Ministers to recur to so strong a mea. l sure till they were driven to it by a direful necessity, and found that the examples of punishment made under the ordinary existing laws by no means pro duced the desired effect. The Noble Viscount con. eluded by moving, " That this Bill be now read a second time."—On the question, The Earl of CAR.YSFO KT addressed the House at some length upon the subject, and took an histo rical view of the mode and principle upon which the English Government of Ireland in fact and practice generally proceeded, from the period of the reign of, Elizabeth down to the present time. In this view, l his Lordship seemed to think the benefits or advan- 1 tages of the real Constitution of England had never been fairly or fully communicated to Ireland, more especially with respect to the important consideration of the administration of justice to the people at large. The Bill, he thought, went to give a most alarming extent of discretionary power to the Executive Go vernment over the people of Ireland ; and, what he must think a novel and highly questionable mode, these powers were given in a way which not only mi. litated against the best principles of the English con stitution, but proceeded in a course perfectly opposed to that by which the judicial administration of the laws was regulated in this country—where the person who presided in the Courts of Justice was, instead of being a prejudiced accuser of the parties brought for trial before them, was bound in duty to be, if they had no other, their legal defender; and this prop tion he urged in contrast to the arbitrary powers given to local Magistrates by the Bill in question.— His Lordship then commented, at much length, on the actual situation of the people of Ireland—the com mon people were more estranged than any other from the Nobility, and this arose from the necessary situa tion in which they were placed.. When contrasted with the lower orders in this country, the people of Ireland appeared only like slaves. There was not a man in England who did not know that the fruits ei his labour were protected, and if he fell into calamity his country afforded him assistance : but the state of the people of Leland, on the contrary, could not be dcscribed by any other name than that of slavery. They had neither dwellings, clothes to cover them. property to support them, not even liberty. Hence people in this situation cannot be expected to shew attachment to the Government, because they experi. ence no protection from it ; they do not even know that they live under a Government ; and being in such a deplorable and desperate state, they are ready for any thing. lie objected to the Bill before the House, because it gave new powers; it directed the strength and vengeance of the State against those who stood most in need of its protection and assist ance ; while it was not even sufficient for restoring peace in places that might be disturbed. It went to authori.e Magistrates to transport a man for seven years on no other ground than not being found in his house ten minutes after sunset. By such laws neither the morals nor the peace of Ireland could ever be promoted : burls long as the principles of the an eient law were adhered to by Government, and the Trial by Jury continued, no apprehension need be en tertained. His Lordship concluded with saying, that with these impressions on his mind, he found it iell• possible to vote for the second reading of the Bill, which, he was convinced, would only create and aug meat the mischief it pretended to remedy ; and with' this conviction he should move, that instead of now, it be magi a second time on Ist of September. On the question being put ; LOrd HOLLAND said he did pot ram to detain the Noose by repeating any of his former observa tions; but he could not refrain saying, that he thought there could be but one opinion of the Bill, which was, that its principle was quite abhorrent to all ideas of, civil liberty. Yet he felt no hesitation in saying, that of many of the amendments and alterations that had been introduced in it, he fully approved, particularly that which went to place a person of legal knowledge and habits at the head of the Sessions. But not any amendment that had been or could be made in it, would obviate his insuperable objection to the dis pensing with the trial by Jury. He understood that it was intended to reduce the term of existence of the Bill from three to two years, which had his approba tion ; yet he must oppose the general nature of the Bill itself, as it punished without the intervention of a Jury, and threw upon persons the onus of proving their own innocence. He could not but add, that the Bill of 1807 had no sanction from him. The motive assigned for it was, the existence of a strong French party in Ireland ; but as it was notorious that no such party existed at present, the revival of the measure was, in his mind, unnecessary, and therefore he should enter his protest against it. Earl STANHOPE declared himself an enemy to the Bill in Coto, and should be sorry to be eonsidered by any man alive as giving his sanction to a measure so unjust, obnoxious, and unconstitutional. His Lord ship descanted on the hardships to which the lower classes of tenantry in Ireland were subjected, particu larly the poor tenantry, the last taker of land being liable to be distrained by all the men above him ; and he considered it scandalous on the part of Go vernment that niithing was done to relieve the people from such horrible oppression. As to the principle of the Bill before the House, he considered it as a curse on the country, and worse than the Norman Curfeu, It was not enough to debate the Bill ; and as persuasion would be useless, he should move, in the Committee, that it be made to end with the ter mination of the next Session of Parliament. Lord HOLLAND briefly objected to a part of a clause which authorised the appointment of Counsel, if any such could be procured. on the ground, as we understood, that Counsel could and ought always to Ise obtained. Lord SIDMOUTH signified his assent to the aiteration, and the Bill WAS then read a second time, and committed for to-morrow. The other Orders were then forwarded, and the House adjourned at a quarter past eight o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Lord PALMERSTON presented, pursuant to order, a return of the Deaths and Desertions in the Regular Army and the Mili tia within the last three years.—Ordereal to lie on the Fable. As was a Return presented by Mr. LWSHING EON, of the amount of the addition to the Public Debt for the last year. Returns from the Sierra Leone Company, from the Commis sioners of the Northern Light Houses, and of the amount of West India Goods imported into Great Britain and Ireland, with 1 their corresponding Duties within a certain period, were pre- sewed, and ordered to lie on the Table. The Ship Letter Bill, the Vote of Credit Bill, the Scotch Spirits Duty Bill, and the Clergy Residence Bill, were read a third time and passed. Mr. W. FiTzGERALD presented the Report of the Com missioners of Public Accounts in Ireland. On the motion of Lord CASTLIRIAGII, the SPEAKER was or. dered to issue his warrant to the Clerk of the Crowe, to make out a new writ for the election of a Member to serve in the pre sent Parliament for Queen's County, in the room of the Right Hon. W. Wellesley Pole, who has accepted the office of Master or big Majesty's Mint. Mr. P. MOORE presented a Petition from the widow of Mr: W. Reid, late Army Tailor, complaining that the sum of £lo,ooo, which had bean left her by will, and which had been eittu.ted to the management of two Executors by the Court of Chancery, could not be recovered by her on account of the death of the Executors, and praying for relief.—Ordered to lie en the Table. Mr. LOCKHART gave notice, that early next Session he would move for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Bank rupt Laws. On the motion of Mr. LUSHINGTON, an humble Address was ordered is be presented to his Royal Highness the Prince Regent, praying that his Royal Highness would be graciously pleased to order the sum of f5OO to be paid to James Cumming, Esq. in consideration of his able services on the spetial Com mittees to examine into the affairs of the East India Company during the last five Sessions of Parliament. The Papers relating to the action between the Lady Mary Paw ham and Montagne Packets, and an American Privateer, were presented to the House, and ordered to lie on the Table. Mr. J. P. GRANT moved that those papers should be primed; but the CIIIAnCILI.OII of the Baez tenet haring stated that from considerations of a private nature, it was desirable that they should not be printed, the motion was withdrawn. On the motion of Mr. LOCKHAR I', there was ordered to be laid before the House an account of the number of Writs of Extent issued between the 22st Jan. and the 24th June last. The Report of the Committee upon the standing Orders as to Private Bills, was brought up by Mr. Baoonew. and several Resolutions were agreed to. Dundas's Divorce Bill was read a third time and MAD 110CSES. Mr. ROSE moved that there should be laid before the House an account of the number of houses in the kingdom appropriated for the reception of Lunatics under the Act . of the 14th of the King, mentioning the parish in which they are situated, together with the names of the persons who keep them. He stated that it was his inteptiDn early in the next Session, to move for a Committee to inquire into the state of the Mad.houses in the kingdom. When this was done, he was convinced that it would appear that the neces sity for such a measure as that which he had some time ago proposed to the House, would appear urgent and pressing. He was so firmly convinced of the propriety of having the Bill which he had proposed, passed into a law, that he would find it his duty next Session to expose fasts which, in the hope that the Bill would have passed without opposition, he had hitherto kept back. The motion ova: then agreed to; GENERAL GORE. Mr. MARSH presented a Petition from William Firth, Esq. Barrister, of Norwich, complaining of the conduct of General Gore, in the Government of Up per Canada, of which Province the Petitioner had been Attorney-General. The Honourable Member stated, that he conceived it his duty, as a Member of that House, to present any Petition directed to a pro. per object, and couched in decorous language, which was clearly the case in this instance ; but he had no hesitation whatever in presenting this Petition, because Waving the fullest knowledge of the character of the Petitioner, from an acquaintance of several years, he' could most implicitly rely upon his honour and accuracy. The Petition was then read.—lt stated, that im mediately after the arrival of the Petitioner in Canada, he was called upon by Gener..l Gorr, to concur, in his official capacity, in the prosecution of a system of measures against which his judgment And feelings re voked. lie found, very soon, that Spies were scat tered throughout the Colony. to disturb the harmony and social confidence of the inhabitants—that the sanctity of the Post-office had been violated—that the • beat English subjects in the Colony were oppressed— that the reveal:o war impaired--and that the People of Canada had been thus kept in * f, ve ish disturbed state, without any apparent cause—Without any ra tional ground—and that his own *he Petiti.lner's) situation was, through such circumstioces, rendered peculiarly uncomfortable, the more so, se Ge neral Gore, in consequence of his (the titioner's) refusal to co-operate in his views, endeaAtwed by every possible expedient to annoy him. Pditioner concluded with stating, that feeling his situation - der General Gore quite intolerable, he resigned bis official employment, and returned to England ; and pledging himself to prove the truth of his allegation. The Petition was ordered to lie on the Table. IRISH GRAND JURY ressanruarrs. Mr. W. FITZGERALD gave notice that he should, at an early period of the neat Sessions, move for leave to bring in a bill to apneas' and consolidate the several laws with respect to the presentments on the imposition of taxes by Grand Juries in Ireland, for the construction or improvement of public works. The Right Hon. Gentleman said, that he gave this notice in order that others might have full dope to consider his object, although he himself had been long since thoroughly convinced of the justice which caged for the measure he had in contemplation. Mr. LUSHINGTON presented, pursuant to or. der, a return of the sugar imported into Great Britaid within a certain period.—Ordered to lie on the Table. Ordered, yin the motion of Mr. LOCK HA RT, that a return should be made to the House of the Writs of Extent, issued from the Ist of January to the 25th of June last, distinguishing those issued immediately by the Crown or by private individuals ; Also a re. turn of the extents issued against Messrs. Euston and Co. together with an account of the becurities given in consequence of such extents. SIR 0. BARLOW. Mr. MARSH gave notice that early in next Ses sions he would move for the institution of an inquiry into the conduct of Sir George Barlow, in the Go. vernment of Madras. This motion the Honourable Member said, it was his intention to have brought forward in the present Sessions if Sir G. Barlow had arrived in due time, but from the consideration of that Gentleman's absence, and in deference to the opinion of others whom he had consulted, because he was impressed with a respect for their judgment, he was induced to postpone his purpose. The sub. ject matter of his niotion, the Honourable Membyr described, to refer to the improper interference of Sr G. Barlow, in certain prosecutions instituted before the proper tribunal at Madras, against persons charged with fraud, forgery, and conspiracy, with r. spect to the debts of the Nabob of the Cern:die...l This tribunal was known to be wholly independent of the controul of the local Government. Yet Sir G. Barlow thought proper to interpose with it, and in consequence of hi s objection to the pro:mention., alluded to, endeavoured by all the means in his power to annoy and prosecute every person concerned in promoting or conducting them. One of these per sons bad, therefore, been sent by Sir G. Barlow from a lucrative situation at Madras, to a distant and un wholesome settlement, so unwholesome indeed as to be fatal to the health of that officer. Sir G. Barlow had also acted towards another Gentleman (Mr, Thomas Parr y ) Mr. WRO r LESLEY here rose to order, Ottitrw ing that the Honourable Gentleman was net only exceeding the usual limits of a notice of a motion, hut making accusations which could not be answered fur a considerable time, and against a Gentleman who was not present to defend himself. Mr. MARSH declared that his only °Nest mat fully and fairly to explain the points Up which his ao■ tion would icier, and this explanatoon he thought the more necessary as so many parts tit the -Administrat tion of bit' G. Barlow were also complained of. He therefore conceived that be was acting with candour towards the accused, while he disclaimed any intpo. tion of trespassing upon the Order of the House, and he was decidedly adverse to any violation of the print ciples of justice. Mr. MARSH moved that copies should be laid before the House of the Memoriam presented to his Majesty from Messrs. Maitland, Ell/1111, and Parry, relative to the misconduct of Sir G. batlow in the Government of Madras. The Honourable Gentle man also moved for other documents upon the same subject which had, he said, already been laid before the House. Mr. 'IIERNEY suggested, that in fairness the other side should also have an opportunity of calling f)r papers on this subject, observing, that it the mo tion of the Honourable Gentleman were acceded to, an ex parte statement would go forth, which 'night in terfere with the merits of the caw., and at aperiod too when no answer could be duly promulgated. The SPEAKER observed, that it could not be ne cessary to move for papers already before the House, and therefore he suggested to the Honourable Gen tleman the propriety of reconsidering his motion, with a view to select the documents for which it might be necessary for his object to move. Mr. MARSH said, that in compliance with this suggestion, he snould postpone his motion until Fri day : but upon some observations from Mr. C. Wynne, the Honourable Gentleman agreed to postpone his motion until next Session. The CHANCELLOK of the EXCHEQUER said, that at though notice had yesterday been given of his intentiou to move An adjournment until Friday, he tound,frum the state ut public business in the other House, that it would be necessary fur thitt House to sit to-morrow, - MR. MALLlson's inVeltlrloll. Sir FRANCIS suituur, after some observa. dons upon what he understood from good authority to be an untounded statement on the part of Gentle. men on the other side, respecting the inaprActicAbiiity of producing a return of the lives lost in out Navy through the upsetting of boats. am gave notice of 4 MOEIUn for iti•alliffLiW upon this subjtct, Witil A view to chew Low many pet 1•Ist since the rejection of Mi. Mdillisoies plan for saving tae loves of our tkeatteil, which plan as reCtofiltliell.k.l oe Report of a Cuninsittee of that ti•iubc. Ti,e Mtn wiloCou4J have u> decried the H Ant reupetaiog the Returns 411utteci hm. to ticserref s.rious censure. The CHANCILLLOR. of ;be EXCHEQUER