Star. — London, England, 1821-07-11 00:00:00

• N 4 - In; that an siffenng further evidence et ' mr ht be a rded to him. SPEAR , gr a nt red whether this Petition, 4111 of public money, had the sanction of the Crown? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, after the late decision of the House, thought, in his situa tion, it would not become him to take any further step in the business. The Petition was of course dropped. SOCIETY TOR THE SUPPRESSION OF VICE. Dr. LUSHINGTON presented a Petition from William Clark, Bookseller, of 201, Strand, complain ing.of hardships sustained from certain prosecutions instituted by , the Society for the Suppression of Vice. One part of the Petition, if true, seemed to him of , great importance, as it chewed the way in which all such Societies proceeded. He stated, that an old man, whom the Petitioner verily believed to be em ployed by the prosecutors, had come to his shop, and purchased a work, entitled, " Killing no Mur der," which was written by Colonel Titus, and which contained an exhortation to murder Oliver Cromwell. The old man said, " This is a good book, and the principles which it contains might well be applied to Castlereagh and his junto." To this the Petitioner answered, that " the book was written at a particular time, and under peculiar cir cumstances, and that its principles were not gene rally applicable to the present times." The conduct pursued in this case seemed to chew that it was the object of those who were thus employed to instigate to the commission of the offence which they were re tained to detect. He, for his own part, abhorred the use of spies under any and all circumstances. The Petitioner complained that he laboured under difficulties with which be should not have to con tend if he were prosecuted by the Attorney-General, as he had been refused a copy of the indictments preferred against him. Notwithstanding the obser vations which he had been called urn to make on the Society which had taken upon itself to be the guardian of public morals, he trusted that he should not be considered the less willing to detect blasphe mous and immoral publications, in whatever forms they might present themselves. Mr. WILBERFORCE would be the last to pre vent an individual from exercising the right of Peti tioning, which every British subject possessed under our glorious Constitution, but he put it to the House whether the representations of an individual who got a living by selling publications_ like those which had been alluded to, or the statements made on the part of the Society by whom he had been prose cuted, ought to be most attended to. That the So ciety employed spies and informers he disbelieved; and if in any instance it could be proved that a person connected with them had so far overstepped his duty as to urge the commission of an offence, he was sure that the Society would be as much disposed to pro ceed against that person as the Honourable and Learned Gentleman could be, and would instantly discharge him from their service. He then adverted to the remarks made on an individual on a former evening, and declared it to be his conviction, from long acquaintance with him, that he would not con nect himself with any Society, from the motives imputed to him, nor lend himself to institute pro ceedings against individuals, with a view to his own emolument—(Hear, hear). HOBIIOUSE wished to ask if any thing had yet been done in the case of William Benbow, and if , the Attorney-General could tell whether or not the trial was coming on? He (Mr. Hobbouse) had this day received a letter from Mr. Benbow, in which he said he did not believe that the vial was coming on; at least, that he knew nothing about it. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL had been with the Chief-Justicc Abbott that very day, and learning that the trial was not likely to come on, he had thought it unnecessary to take any immediate step. As far as his authority would go, it would be in terposed to procure the liberation of the party, on giving moderate security. Mr. HOBHOUSE expressed himself satisfied. Dr. LUSHINGTON explained with respect to what he had said of the Society for the Suppression of Vice, and vindicated his own conduct in bringing forward the Petition. He threw no new imputation on the Society, nor did he renounce any opinion that he had before advanced. The course of proceeding of which he complained was common to all Societies who employed such agents. It was in human nature that it should be so, and that had been fully exem plified in the course of the last three or four years. Mr. WILIIERPORCE rose— The SPEAKER suggested, the Hon. Member had better speak on the next question. The Petition being then ordered to lie on the table; on the question that it should be printed, Mr. WILBERFORCE observed, it might be true that persons employed to purchase a libel with a view to prosecution, might be liable to abuse the trust reposed in them ; but would the Honourable and Learned Gentleman point out any better mode of proceeding? If there were any other mode by which the purpose could be accomplished, he doubted not it would be adopted by the Society for the Sup pression of Vice, as well as by the Constitutional Association—(Hear, hear). Dr. LUSHINGTON complained, that presenting such a Petition, he was to be put on his personal de fence, nor was he to point out the mode an which those Societies should carry on their proceedings.— The principle he should be disposed to lay down in such cases was this, that the party employed on such an occasion ought not to be paid. The Petition was ordered to be printed. RIGHT 01 SEARCH roe SLAVES. Mr. WILBERFORCE moved that an humble Ad dress should be presented to the King, praying his Majesty to communicate a Report made to the House of Representatives of the United States of America, in favour of granting mutually the right of search for slaves, in ships belonging to the two cotsatries— EntTi er d and America. • few words from the Marquis of Loanow- DIZZY, the motion was agreed to. MTISSIAN TARIFF. Mr. BERNAL wished to know from the Noble Lord, whether the result of the negotiation which bad been opened with Russia, respecting the Tariff, bad yet reached this country? The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that the molt of this negociatice bad oat yet reached Eng- land ; bat he had reason to think that the result would be of a favourable nature. OPHTHALMIC HOSPITAL. Mr. BENNETT moved, that the evidence taken before the Ophthalmic Committee should be printed., It *as right that the Evidence should be laid before the House, in order that the country might see why £4,000 o f ? the public money should be granted by a Committee which was not unanimous, bat amongst the Members of which a difference of opinion had existed. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that no part of the public money would be granted at the mere recommendation of the Committee. He ob jected to the printing of the evidence, on the ground of expense; the expense would amount to at least £l,OOO. He believed the Honourable Member would have acquiesced in the Committee to the grant of £3,000. He now moved for printing papers which would cost the country exactly the sum in dispute between him and other Members of the Committee! Lord PALMERSTONE said, that he had hoped that the Report of the Committee would have put an end to the disputes which.this subject had caused. Mr. C. FORBES said he would vote for the print ing of the evidence. The expenditure of £l,OOO would save the country the other three. After a few words from Sir R. Fatalism( and Co lonel WOOD, the motion was withdrawn, on the un dentanding_that it would be brought forward early in the next Session. THE STANDING ARMY. The Marquis of TAVISTOCK said, that he under.. stood it was intended to assemble an unusual mili tary force about London on the intended ceremony of the Coronation. The flattering manner in which his Majesty had been received in public since his ac cession to the throne was the best proof of the loyalty and affection of the People. He wished to know, under those circumstances, from the Noble Lord, whether it was the intention of his Majesty's Govern ment to adhere to former precedents respecting the Royal Coronation, or for what purpose were the mi litary to be introduced into the metropolis? The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that with respect to former precedents, he did not know how the case stood; he, however, could assure the Noble Lord, that whatever military force should be assem bled on the occasion, would be so assembled in ho nour of the ceremony—not with the remotest inten tion to intimidate, or from any distrust of the gene ral tranquillity. The Marquis of TAVISTOCK hoped that the No ble Lord would do him the justice to think that it was always with reluctance that he made use of any ungracious language to him, and never, but in the performance of his duty. He now wished to ob• serve, that intelligence having been received of the death of Napoleon, and the Noble Lord having him elf in that House announced the gratifying mei. ligence of the good humour, good feeling, and gene ral tranquillity of the country at large—it followed, of course, that there was no longer any necessity of keeping up an enormous standing army. He wished then to know from the Noble Lord, when, and to what amount, might the country expect a reduction of the army? He wished to remind the Noble Lord, that at the time of the Duke of Marlborough, wheal Louis XIV. was on the throne of France, the peace establishment of England did not exceed from 12,000 to 14,000 rzien. Now that they witnessed the termina tion of the mortal career of the great Military Chief, now that they had the good fortune to see upon the throne of France their friend and ally, Louis XVIII. now that the Noble Lord had just placed the peace and the affairs of Europe on a footing exactly fitting to his own taste—when none but friends were known abroad, and nothing but good feeling and loyalty prevailed at home (such was the description of our affairs given by the Noble Lord himself), he wished to know from him how long the people were to main tain an available military force of 250,000 men; and I whether, at this time of peace and security at home and abroad, further Estimates were to be given in for building new barracks—establishments at all times looked upon with jealousy by the people, hostile as they were to the free spirit of the country? The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that be could not give a precise answer to the Noble Marquis without entering into a long statement. He admitted the principle of reduction laid down in the Address of that House, in which Ministers had concurred ; but he did not think that he ought to be called upon at that moment to state at what particular time those reductions were to be made, or to what extent. Colonel DAVIES said, that the garrison of St. Helena, and the establishments of that island would be now reduced. THE LATE EMPEROR NAPOLEON. Mr. BENNETT said, that he observed that the signature of the French Surgeon in attendance on Napoleon was not to the Report of the medical per sons which had been published in the London Gazette, as to the cause of the death of that Illustrious Person. He wished to know whether the Noble Lord could state the season of that remarkable omission? • The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, he did not knew whether the French Surgeon's name was to the Report or not. Mr. BENNETT repeated that it was not. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that he could not account for the cause of the omission. EDUCATION IN IRELAND. Mr. S. RICE then rose to move, that the Four teenth Report of the Commissioners on Education in Ireland should be printed. In bringing forward this 'subject, the Honourable Member stated his objec tions, in strong terms, to the system which had been adopted in Ireland. There were three great esta blishments in Ireland, namely, the Protestant Char ter Schools, which had cost Ireland £600,000; the Foundling Hospital, which had been supported at a charge of 41500,000; and the Society for -Discounte nancing Vice, which had also cost the country large sums. He was persuaded that the Protestant Schools had been injurious, inasmuch as the Protestant Schools had given origin to Schools exclusively Catholic. He was convinced the whole subject stood in need of re vision, and he trusted would be a subject of future consideration. He concluded by moving the reprint ing of the Report. Mr. BROUGHAM fully coincided with his Hon. Friend as to the state of education in Ireland, and tol the necessity of inquiry and investigation on the sub ject. He had delayed his own motion on the subject of Education, on account of the controversy between the Church aad.the Dissenters. That delay had oc- visioned a number of publications to be sent forth. which had thrown much light on the question, though he feared the differences were too wide to be recon ciled. The Dissenters thought the religious opinions to be inculcated in the children would be too near to the Established Church. Some members of the Church of England thought these Schools too open to the children of Dissenters. Still he hoped that more dis cussion would convince the contending parties of the propriety of approaching each other with conciliation, after tip heats of difference of opinion had subsided. It was principally for this reason that he had post poned the farther consideration of this subject; but in postponing this measure, he would remind both the parties that they were obliged to do (on the part of the Churchmen) as little to the exclusion of the Dissenters' children, and (on the part of the Dissen: ters) they ought not to look at this as a measure of exclusion, nor one which they could avoid paying for, if they even did not send their children there. He thought he saw ample room for modifying these Bills ; and he hoped the Dissenters, the steady friends of civil and religions liberty, would not oppose this system, as it sanctioned their principle; for no Ca techism was to be taught, no Liturgy, nor any attend ance on Church discipline. This great national con cern could not be brought about, unless concession was made on both sides; and the Legislature must not giie up a measure so highly desirable. Some said, that the Parochial Schools were quite insufficient; but be contended, that there were many small Parishes its which there could be no School; for they were with out any endowments or means of establishing Schools. This was also the case with the greater number of Parishes in England. He contended that the Paro chial Returns were as accurate as could be, and were therefore the best evidence in favour of his opinions that could be; but if it were asserted that they were erroneous, he would tell them to occupy the recess in finding out errors in those returns. He had no doubt that when the present Census of the Popu lation should be completed, it would be found that there was an increase of one million since 1811.— There were 220 Parishes in which there were no schools, and where the inhabitants were very anxious to have them. He hoped that in the early part of next Session they would be prepared to meet this great question; and he should be quite ready to give his mite towards the conciliation of all the conflict ing parties. If he should be really convinced that the plan would endanger the religious interests of the country, he was not so wedded to it as not to give it up altogether ; but, after the best consider ation which he could give the subject, he must say that, in his opinion, the measure would be most bow ficial to the country. Mr. BRIGHT defended the Dissenters from any charge of undue prejudice against this measure. Aa attack had been made on the religious liberties of the i country ; for this Bill exposed the whole of the schools to be put under the Clergy of the Established Church. The Dissenter was to be called upon to pay rates for , supporting schools and masters, whose doctrines he was taught conscientiously to suspect. Every phi losopher admitted that all sectaries hated those of another sect from themselves ! The Hon. Gentleman had formerly shown that education was rapidly ex tending itself in this country. He denied that the returns of the Sunday Schools had been accurately made out. He considered this as a measure intended, to undermine, by law, the liberties of religion in this country. Mr. BROUGHAM denied that the friends of this measure ever intended to cast reflections on any reli gious sect in this country. Mr. BEECHER was glad that the attention of the House had been again drawn to the subject of the state of education in Ireland; and he trusted the Se cretary for Ireland would take the subject into his most serious consideration. He complained that suffi cient encouragement was not given to the Catholic' Schools in that country. M r.G RATTAN said, that in parts of Ireland where Ihe was acquainted the Catholic and Protestant chil dren were educated together. Colonel FRENCH would do anything to convert the Catholics to Protestantism. bat not by forcing' them to send their children to Protestant Schools. The Report was then ordered to be reprinted. Mr. W. SMITH bad been a Dissenter ever since he had had a seat in that House; but he could sot agree with his Learned Friend (Mr. Bright), that a measure of general religion could not be carried into effect without endaugenng religious liberty in this country. The only way, however, in which it could be carried was by conciliation on both sides, and therefore he deprecated everything like ill temper on this subject. (a a forme! Occasion. accused of contributing to ex ., cite that feeling of irritation which so long a..na tt d the country , and I cannot, therefore, on th sea occasion, allow myself to be a party to the Ise, ore which may have the effect of again exciting the ; me fettling. When I consider the nature and constitu tion of the Court of Claims, it would be idle t o ant i. cipate any favourable result to the claim of her M e . sty, butt am convinced that her Majesty's Advocates have completely made out her case, that her H e i m , has as much a right to be crowned as the King him,' self ; and that in any fair tribunal, or under any oth er circumstances than those in which her Majesty i s placed, her claim would be fully recognized and ad. milted. As it is impossible to suppose that the deci. sion of the Court of Claims will be favourable to h er Majesty, the next thing which it is the duty of t hi s House to ascertain is, whether his Majesty's 7,tfi, nisters intend to persevere in a course of per,o cut i ro against this Illustrious Individual, or whether it i s their intention to assign to her a place at the C orona _ tion among the other branches of the Royal Fam i l y ? If his Majesty's Ministers advise the Crown to d eny her Majesty's undoubted right, I am perfectly A u,. , fied, if I know anything of Majesty's spirit, ii know anything of her determination not to he d e• graded for want of any exertion of her own, that she will attend to witness the ceremony of the Coiona. don even if she is not to form a part of it. For these reasons, and with a view of preventing any ca lamitous occurrences on the day of the Coronation, for which I should hold his Majesty's Ministers en• tirely answerable, I now give notice that I shall to morrow move, 4 That an humble Address be o r e. sented to his Majesty, praying him to take into his serious consideration her M ajesty 's elai m to be crowilei with him at his approaching Coronation, and to duct such measures to be taken as may secure her Maiest)'s rights, and in so doing meet the wishes of the I'cop:e of England, and preserve the public peace." Mr. BUTTERWORTH regretted that such a mo. tion should be made in the present state of the !louse ; he hoped her Majesty would not he so ill-advised is to risk the peace of the country, and whit hale cre dit she might still have left, by interferiag in tie august ceremony of his Majesty's Coronation. Mr. Alderman NV 00D.—" The Honourable Mem. ber who has just sat down has thought proper o, ; a u k to her Majesty's advisers in terms which are probably meant to convey a reproach ; but he is entirely iris taken, if he supposes that, in the conduct which he Majesty will pursue on the present occasion, she wil be influenced by any advice, or act under any other suggestions than those of her own dignified mind.-. Her Majesty has the spirit to protect her rights, and to maintain the dignity with which the laws and the .Constitution have invested her. With regard to tie expressions which the Honourable Member has po, mitted himself to use, I trust, even for his own sag; that they were dropped in the warmth of debate, and that he is not prepared to defend them. Is it deco- rous, or manly, or consistent in that Hon. Member a talk of the little credit which her Majesty may still have left in the country, when, if he were to poll the opinions of his Constituents, he would find ninety-nin out of a hundred indignant at the wrongs which he Majesty has sustained, and firm supporters of bet cause? lam satisfied that the public feeling for he Majesty remains undiminished and unshaken, and that, if circumstances should again unhappily tallit forth, it will again display itself from one end die kingdom to the other. I have no hesitation in de claring, that, whatever may be the decision of the Tribunal before which her Majesty's Claim is nov pending, and a favourable one can scarcely be anti eipated; it is her Majesty's decided intention to atterd at the ceremony of the Coronation." Mr. BUTTERWORTH repeated, that he hoped her Majesty would not be so ill advised as to inter• fere in the ceremony. Mr. HUME-4. If the Hon. Gentleman intends his observations to apply to me, I can inform him that never had the honour—and most probably never dui —of being one of her Majesty's advisers. " The subject was then dropped, and the House adjourned g Half-peat Wight o'Clock. THE EVENING STALL LONDON. WEDNESDAY. JULY 11, 1821. THE FUNDS. The market has felt a depression this morning about three-eighths per cent. No political or financial reason is assigned for the fall, but the present dome tic state of affairs. From what transpired in the Hoot of Commons last night, stat►ng her MAsEsTy's &to mination to be present at the approaching Coronado, many persons are of opinion, that the schism create an unpleasant sensation on that day; and Bears, taking advantage of the public feeling, been selling Stock to an immense amount this ing. Consols left off last night at 78 1 4 Vs, and are one o'clock, 77 Ye, with a heavy Market. CURIRINT PRICES AT ONZ O'CLOCK: Bank Stock 233 3 / 4 -3 per Cent. Redu. 77 3 / 4 K 77 3 per Cent. Cons. 76 3 /4 3 / 4 3 / 4 3 3 / 4 per Cent. 86% 87 3 / 4 -4 per Cent. 95 3 / 4 % Navy 5 per Cent. 109 3 / 4 3 / 4 —Long Anne. 19 7.16 Imp. 3 per Ct. 75 %—lndia Stock 234 3 / 4 234 India Bonds Sys. 565. pr.—So. Sea Stock 84 1 Excb. Bills. 4s. Ss. pr.—Cons. for The House of Commons met to adjournment. The Marquis of TAVISTOCK, evening, alluded to the preparations Coronation, and the amount of ing in and about the Metropolil psalm assured the Noble Mary not collected as a precautionary intended to give splendour and effect The loyalty of the people, and the country, were now so apparent, ; cautionary measures on that head .. Aa intimation of some public interest was , respecting . the Qum. Mr. Hums said he ou good it was bar MAJESIT'S intention to be too 3E5 gat ma the PI Sa psi 11 26 P 2 so] w, pe ix fa *I et vs r Acct. 78% 77% yesterday, purs in the course of scions making for the military co plis. Lord L.' Luis, the military r measure, but as effect to the cermetl the tranquillity of as to render any scl wholly unnecessl.ll HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN. On the SPEAKER potting the question that the House do now adjourn, Mr. HUME rose, and spoke to the following effect: .=...44 I rise, Sir, to give notice of a Motion upon a subject o f the utmost importance, to which, had an opportunity offered, it was my intention to have called the attention of the House at an earlier period of the evening. As I understand the Howie is to ad journ to-night, with a view of meeting to be pro rogued to-morrow, I deem it a matter of the utmost importance, that, before the House separates, it should be distinctly understood both by the House and the country, in what manner her Majesty is to be , treated at the Coronation which is now in contemplation, and that the public peace may not be risked by leaving the decision of this tion to the last mo ment. A timely understanding on this subject may be the means of preventing the mischiefs which may ensue from a denial of her Majesty's rights." The SPEAKER.—" I apprehend it is not compe tent to the Hon. Member, on giving notice of a mo tion, to enter into a detailed explanation of the grounds on which he gives that notice." Mr. HUME.—" I apprehend, Sir, that I am per fectly in order. lam not stating the grounds upon which I am induced to give this notice, but I am speaking on the motion for adjournment." Sir F. OMMANNEY—" I move that the House be counted." . The motion was not seconded, and the Honourable Mover sat down. Mr. HUME resumed.—" If his Majesty's Minis ters were in their places, as they ought to be, I should be induced to address the House at greater length. It will be in the recollection of the House, that I was , one of the individuals whom his Majesty's Ministers,