Star. — London, England, 1803-12-10 00:00:00

- 1 tom the fterpea a ttleaion I have been able to g., e the Ribjea, I would mol feriontly recommend, a nd that is, to cnlitl al c men for a term of years, in- i Read or the iiinai mode of enrolling them fin- life. 1 It is a poiaire which I am perfacnied will not he deftruilve to the army : it has hero ref - moat to • in every war, 111 d frail/ U'IIICII no evil confequences ale likely to enthe. Your Volunteers too may he turned , • to flute ai:vantage, in this refloa. Inficad of de- 1 bating in Committees, in putting on fine coats, ant 't., IC'. them new ideas, " rm.: ..tryi.'ia neva fres ;" let them volimieer, but let it be for general firvice, so t reltriOiag then - delves to the defence of this town or too villago or to march ten miles in one direaion, and twice as many in another ; but let them reale to be volanteers, t:iat is, to have paramount inelina ti ins of their own, the moment they have enrolled ; a..d &bike themfelve., entirely up to the command of thole u hoot-. the country has appointed to wield its means of defence. Thule arc my ideas of an efficient nail:my on cc ; and I molt conlefs that I have been notch dill pooin i ted in what fell from the Min. Secre tary this eveniag, for I did not expect that be would have confined hinifelf to the mere routine of his office. I would iliy to him, do as little as pollible in a coin rico' y way, ha do not, for the lake of that phan tom, popularity, pet levvre in a fyllem which may endanger the vital hoe' ells of the State. You can not let too loon about correaing the vices of it. Your Army of Referee, on which you appeared to place fuch immediate reliance at the end of haft sec lion, was not ready in two months after, and even now only gives you a stifporable force affix thoufand men. You lhould have taken meafures to unlock the mar. of your population, to unletter the energies of t'te people, and, above all, to deftroy the praftice of fiOotiiution, which, if once admitted, cuts up the met ket for ever. By purfuing thefe meafures, and by regolating that main hinge, the volunteer fyftem, you will he enabled to eftablith and fecure to the ciamtry that fine qua not, a numerous and efficient army. I regret, Mr. Chairman, that I have tref pitied on your patience, and that of the Houfe, much linger than I intended." Hon. Mr. Yoe xe......" Sir, after the very long, and certainly very entertaining fpeech, which you have jult heard, I fear that I Iliall neither merit, nor be able to obtain from you and the Houfe, that patience and that attention which I 'hall have ample occifi , n for, in replying to the attacks that the Hon. Gentle man has made on the, and moll of the meafures of the prefect adminiltration. The Hon. Gentleman has quoted a paffage of very indifferent poetry, to prove that there is " nothing good we fay, or nothing ' tight we do ;" hut, in my opinion of the country, and cf . this Houle, the relent Government, if I am to judge front the experience of the left Sellion of Parliament, or the aftual feelings of the people, has little to apprehend from the °pixilation of the Hon. Gentleman, or the application of what he has quoted. During that feafion, it mull be admitted, that we heard many excellent oppofizion fpeeches (and I fhould be lorry that the Hnn. Gentleman were de prived of she opportunity of amufing and inflruaing the Houfe), but then we had to let off againft them Come good mit:Melia' votes, the cordial and zealous flappogt of a very great majority of this Houfe. The Hon. Gentleman has begun by condemning the con ttitution of the army, confidering it as the whole of a military fyftem ; and has enforced, with all the do- i l quence and ingenuity that he is matter of, the neeef- 1 fsty of a total alteration in it. For confidering. he 1 lays, the power, the means, and the intentions of France, it is abfolutely incumbent on us to circa an entire change in our military fytlem. I need fcareely repeat to the Hon. Gentleman, that peculiarly con- Aituted as the army of this empire is, there is no power, lave and except the omnipotence of Parlia ment, that can operate thole changes he fo forcibly recommends. The fanBion of the Legiflature mutt precede the improvements (if improvements they are), that the Hon. Gentleman advifes. I have no objetnion to taking the whole of our military fyftem under general confitieration, provided that the Hon. Gentleman will have the prudence to omit the mi mite details; for I truft that every one who, hears me will allow, that a Committee of this Houfe is not the belt or the fitteft place to go into an accurate ex amination of the merits or defe&s of Such a compli cated fyllem. The Hon. Gentleman has found much caufe for difapprobation, in the defencelefs and vulnerable Rate in which Come part of the coalt has been fuffered to remain. in reply to this I will frank• ly admit, that it is not in as good a Rate of defence as it might have been, confidering our means and the flint of the people L but Rill I fhall contend, that it I is lolly Sufficient for the proteaion of the country, 1, and capable of affording a very ferions refinance to • any probable eff o rt of the enemy. The Hon. Gen tieman has been particularly (evert in his condemna tam% of two treaftirc of the Government, which took place immediately after the figning of the peace of Amiens, the dilbanding of the arrr.7, and the dia . - arming and Oilmantling of the navy. I molt, SO,' milt folemnly in otdt againft the view which Slut Hon. Gentlar . ,n Lis taken of thole nseafores, for the trot Rate of the I . .nti, will not jollity the inferences he has endea vim cd to draw 110111 them. At no pe riod of out 'into] y ti: a. there, at the condor - ion of a peace, an eltablithnient, both naval and military, a ter maintained, that would fopport any comparibm oafs that votiol and benaioned by this Houle, futile. yr!. to the rutheation of the Dcfioitive Treaty.— f to time of ,L.it which took place in the cavalry, in s' hitch I admit it was confiderable, the diminution in • the re 2, of out force, the infancy I mean, was very ti -f indeed; not more than 7,000 men out of rite mlvlc of our icgoLir army. The tell of thole d,l balift...l Va7e comps whole Services were limited, J , parity counting of 1 coed battalions, who volunteer ed hoot the militia, %t hole time was within a year of expiration, and will fe Cervices, for that Ilion time, Colie•l:tilel.r, tor v r y engem and prudential rcaf.rns, de:mei it adv:fable to ditrenfe with. With regard to the t.umetiral enumeration of our force, I can meet the lion. Gctolcaiati, not early with plc-dole. but with Millilitre cootadence on that head. I %Oil! Rate, for the infoimmion of that 1-lon. Gentlionan, and for the fatidaco in of 11,:t Houle, tha; our regular lot re has beers n• arit finiibled face lad Si:llion of Parlianicnt. lidola of Silty thoufand, we have row 1 an cTeaire regular Since of roe hondic.l and twenty I . . .1 1 'hour:ad men. In thi•auta:—....r I certainly matt to 1 inclode the Amy cf fi1:...: , ,, ul, c!, liit been inenr . a- military parpore, is as t f11,97ve as any regnlars, al tr,iiigii, lan acciittfing to a phi ale the Right H sn. Gentleman's, " they have not vet tot the grafs out of them." In anftrer to the Rt.:ion. Gerr!eman's ohjeßions to the reterved battalions, I w.ll allow that although they may not be as good as the others, (tall uciil maintain that Inch is the I. , e , teral praCtice in all or 1.1 the gnat military fervices of Europe. There is Icarcely one it them in which the pra6lice does not prevail of ettabildring tele. red battalions, or batta -1...ns I.f . Such a rot of .t military fyttem is not una tended with gt eat titilit y ; it is equal to many and very imi.ottaut tervices, for and rtakin2 garrilim duty fur initance, and by that means relieving the taps of the line, and aild•Tig to the difporeable force of the country. As to th: Militia, I affert that they are as good as ever. 'their number amounts to above feventy amt . :mil in England, and to fourteen thoufand in Scotland. They have been iafpeCted and teen under arms by a number of General officers, and they have extorted the applaufe as approba bation of every perfon of military eminence who has fern them. The Volunteers, as I before fated, amount to upwards of 379,n00, among whom there are 340,m0 infantry, with a proportion, and ce.t tainly no inconfiderable one, of I 7,0r50 officers. The tell of the Volunteer force is made up of cavalry and I artillery ; and it is this numerous body of men, dilci plined almolt as weli as any equal body of men could be in the time, that the Right Hon. Gentleman is pleafed to confider as not an effedive force. Al. though, Sir, they may not at the outlet be capable of Meeting a regular army in a line of battle, a cir curnftance by the bye, not much to be apprehend ed, or expelled in a country like this, yet fill there are many porfible contingencies in which they may be eminently ufeful. By ailing on the flanks and rear of the enemy ; by making demonftratinns ; by con• etribating, mitts their numbers, to encreafe to the eye of the enemy the magnitude of our regular force ; on thefe and fimilar occafions, they will not p:ove, as the Hon. Gentleman has fait!, an ineffc'live force, but a formidable and highly efficient one : and when ever the aftual fruggle comes, whenever they are to contend for their country and their homes, for every thing that is dear to their feelings and to their ho nour, I am confident that they will all he found to do their duty, and that many of them will enter into the line. As to the Right Hon. Gentleman's ob jeaion to their clothing, I mull allow that it is a matter of regret, that they have not all adhered to the national colour, and principally becitule a de parture ,fiom it may occafion fame confnlion. I even am tempted to with, that they had all adopted the regulation clothing, although that is not of lo very much importance, as it is impoffible, when ailing in large bodies, that an enemy could &din guilh the difference at a few hundred yards diltance. l'he Right Hon. Gentleman, as he conceives, has made a hill more rennin objeaion against Ishnifters, for he afferts that the volunteer ()Item at firli made an part of their means of defence. Sir, in reply to this, I will only recal to this Houle an Ad which paired in the year Idea, in which, among others, there were extract's provifions, not only for continu ing the old volunteers, but even for accepting new offers. Sir, it mutt be in the recollection of Gentle men, that loch an Aft was before this Houle, and that it created no difcufion. It was in vain that I ' minted to call the attention of the Houle to the whole of our military and volunteer fyilem. The provi fions and principles of that Bill pallid through the Houle, as I am lorry to fay many ads have paired,. ' with little comment, and as little attention. Surely, if there had been any thing vicious in that fyttem, it fbould have been retitled hs &aim. The general De fence AR, as it is entitled, did not embrace the vo lunteer fyttem, nor was it meant to fuperfede it.— The propolition for 'concreting the patinas, if vo lunteers thould offer to a certain event, was made with the unanimous concurrence of this Howe. The whole nation rote as one man, and it was from that cattle that the idea of parochial companies was laid afide. Was Inch ao inspetuona and gallant difpoti• tion on the part of the people to be rejefted by us ? Were we to fay to them we won't accept your Cer vices, we will felon to our compulfory means I' Sir, I need ant fug ell to the Right Hon. Gentleman how culpable, Mould &lama fay, how criminal, Go vernment would have been, if they had not availed themfelves of the fpirit of the people—a fpirit which we have never endeavoured to teprefs, as the Hon. Gentleman has charged us with, but which, on the contrary, we have done every thing to promote. As to the Rate of the arfenals, though that appertains more immediately to the Ordnance department, I will affertoliat they never were more abundantly provided. Upwards of 400,000 flandof arms have been dif ribut ed, and it was the queftion of arms, and the queltion ref exeinpti ins, which firil compelled the Government to the determination of reariding the extent of the Vo lunteer fyttem. I lament, that I porrefs not the ability to reply to the whole of the ingenious fpeech, which the Right Hon. Gentleman has delivered. With regard to his obfervation about a directing mind, I, for my own part, will admit, that I am not fortunate enough to philefs all the talent that the Right Hon. Gentleman does, hut I will not yield to him, or any man, in the dirpolition to ferve the country with zeal, and, I quit, with effect. We, Sir, will do right, if we can, and while we do fn, we will expel the rup port of the country. With regard to the principle of li,rtifying, althoil„h that it the exclitlive province of the Board of Ordnance, yet I than make a few obfervaf.uns on that branch of our military fyttem. I entirely coincide with the idea, that fecttrity is our belt irconimy ; and I will candidly allow, that in my opinion, that part of our fy Item has been too much neglected, and it is on that account, that the plan which was (Omitted to Parliament, fo far back as the year '786, had not been adopted. Not that I think, contilting, ..s the population of this country of a brave and ga loon race of men, Im-rounded by the lea, and encircled by a navy the moil nu mernus, enterprising and well-appointed of any in the world, that we have any etcc•fian to re f u tt to a ver y estenfive phin cf that Ipeeics of defence. AS to the :,;, ; r:er,r towers, which the Right Hon. Gentleman has terommended fn ttrongly, And tile advant.tges of which he has •11141 rated lo clearly by an initance which I (hall rot attempt to difpute, I sriil fay that their erlablithn.ent depenus npon the •.pii.ion of mi litary off.eers,and, is advifeable, molt certainly thould he atittpted, wherever they are praCticable. To the obiefrons which the Right Hi.n. Gentleman has 0••• o 0nt0...14r node taf emoivrinz the Se* Fella;les,l will obferve, that it is intended that Come further arrangements, with relpeet to that branch of the national defence, should he made in this Sefton. Conftituted as they are, even at. this moment, they ate eminently ufeful. They are competent to the manning of the gun boats, and in that capacity, I am convinced, would be more than a match for any force of the fame kind that France could fend againit us. Indeed, I think 1 should not fay too much, if I hazarded the affertion that they would he able to beat all its boalled flotillas. ..The Right Hon. Gen tleman has Paid much about adopting a compulfory ly Rem of recruiting the army by a novel and rather extraordinary mode of putting an end to the Volun teer fyllem. I do not know, at leaft I have not made up my mind to fry, whether the kind of compulfion the Right Hon. Gentleman recommends, be ltrielly conflitutinnal or not. I know that it is within the omnipotence of Parliament to ordain it, but I much doubt that the army could ever be efficiently recruit ed by adopting the fyllem of fining, and employing the revenne drawn therefrom in the manner the Right Hon. Gentleman has fuggelled. Much leg do I ap- prove of the praelice reforted to on former occafions, I mean, that of allowing individuals to raife regi ments. The bad effects of that fy Item have been felt from experience, and it has not been thought advife able to recur to it again. I think there is but one more of the Right Hon. Gentleman's fuggettions, which it is neCetretry for me to advert to, and that is, the recommendation of calling for a certain term of years. To this there is one inseparable objeetion, and that is, that it could not be done without diforganiz ing the whole of our military fyftem ; for it mull be extended to the whole of the army, or it would ine vitably produce jealoulies and diffatisfaCtion, that might prove fatal to that lid& difcipline, and prompt obedience aad alacrity, without which an army is nothing. lam aware that filch a practice prevailed in the Außrian fervice, and I know that it was one of the greatest defects in it. Let any man only con fider the confequence that would attend the adoption of filch a fyllem, particularly if a number of troops were ordeied abroad, whole period of fervice was nearly exoired, and who pallbly might have a claim to be difcharged before they could arrive half way to the place of their dellinatiern. lam Pure when the Right Hon. Gentleman reflects a little upon what he has thus recommended, he will have gond fenfe enough to perceive the utter impracticability of it, and candour enough to acknowledge it. I have thus, as far as I am able, replied to eve, y obfervation of the Right Hon. Gentleman, which I have conceived to be material. 1 regret that I have been obliged to trefpafs In long upon the patience of Gentlemen, and that they have been In ill repaid for the attention they have after led me." Mr. Pirr.—" 1 do not rife to purfue the fubjetl before the Committee into any extenlive details; nor am I inclined, in the prefent (tate of the country, to examine minutely what has been done lince fait Se r. lion of Parliament, or how far the means entrufted to Government have been exerted moil effectually for the important objefts for which they were intended. am only anxious to direel my whole attention to the prefent moment. Confides ing the danger as by no means palt—confidering the crifis of the country as in a greater degree preffing, i am inclined to look at nothing rest ofpeaively, but to confider only the bell means of completing thole meafiires which are neeef fary for our future tecurity. Ido not even profpec tiveiy mean to examine the whole of this important quellion ; I with, as far as poffible, to confine myfelf to the nature, amount, and management of the mili tary force flared in the eflimate. In the firft place, I confider that our regular force fhould be kept on an high tooting ; I confider our regular army to have arrived at that date of perfection which it is in vain to hope we ever can give to any other part of our mili tary force, but I remain firmly fixed to that opinion, which lag fealon was the general opinion of Paths. ment ; and whatever I may think of the conduct of Government, I mutt acquit them of all blame, if they have adhered to that which was the opinion of Par liament. I agreed with Parliament that it could not to be a regular army alone, but to a great national face, whether railed, as was at fiat intended, corn• pulfively, or, as happily was the cafe, by the volun tary zeal and ardour of the country, that we mutt look for our fecurity. I do look to the Army as the rallying point, as that to which the Volunteers are to direct their attention. I confider the Regulars as thole by whole example Volunteers are to be form• ed, and in addition to which they may become, on their own foil, invincible. I look to the army as the force which forms the great body of national defence; but I hope to fee that force employed, not in defen five operations at home, but in active diver fion againß the enemy abroad. I lank to the Voluntary Force ' as that which is not only a confiderahle and impor ' tant addition, while our army is chained to our own coati ; but as a force which in time, and I try(' in no very long time, will be In matured as to render the army dilpidable any where oat of the country, if the annoyance of the pone:lions of the enemy, or if the profpeet of effecting the deliverance of Europe from its prefent bondage lhould render it practicable. It is with this view, that fo far from lamenting there has been fo large a voluntary force railed, I rejoice at its having been formed. With regard to its amount and extent, I fee nothing to complain of. I Ilionld be the lull man to complain of its bring ton large, and I do not think it is materially too fmall.— If I have a with upon the ftilajeet, it is perhaps that the proportion in which the numbers have been diltributed had been better arranged: I cannot but regret, that, large as they are, they ate not larger at the molt expoled and vulnerable parts of our ma ritime coati. Not entirely concurring in the general rule adopted lan fettioni, I would fix the minn.ers at fie times the Militia; :it I am fort;ticd, by obvious conliderations of the plan lance, and by the moll re• keel tble military autlisiity, when I fay, that a numb Im.iiler force, it it can meet the enemy at the mo ment of landing, can do more than many times that amount at Inch ditlance in the country as to he in ! capable of being brought into immediate action.— It it was only a quetli.oi as to the more economical mode, not with regaid v+ the money, but of the number of lives that wont.] be 1011, and tile r:tian tity of blond Ihed, I fbould fay it a ould b.re been a better thing, if it enuld have been found peaftica. ble, to have had a larger proportion of troops at Inch a dißince from the coati, that they could encounter the enemy at his landion. It is hardly neceii:4l y to Rate, that although every Otitis ftcni we center to r the extremity of the king,lom would he brought into motion long btforz the czcmy could make any con fi lerable progrefs, yet to contemplate their cumin* t 3 that progress, in which dittant Volunteers would have to Italian to meet them, would he to admit des vaflation, mifcry, and disgrace. On the other hand, wishing that no fpecies of fecurity fhould be defec tive, and that when we are making every e7ertion, we fhould be looking to repair eves y difafler that the molt improbable chance of war can produce, it is no fmall gratification, that while We are preparing the means of preventing the enemy afeending the beach, we are, ()mid he fitcceed in effecting a landing, fur.. nilhing army upon army to oppole him, preventing thole confequences which would refult from an intl. feluat uppolition. Ido nut, therefore comend, that having a large number of .troops in the interior, it is neceffary they fhould be lefs ; but I infift , that you had a larger number at .the coati, you would make the count' y pert fly fecure. This coalmen,: I urged last Settion, and I repeat it, as I am 'Yrixe ious that the voluntary force Ihould be rendered more etteStal. I would have it not an anomalous force, not for the purpofe of alarming the enemy by num. hers difplayed on paper, but that force which would give us a pet manent army, improving in difcipline s and approaching, year after year, as near as the na ture of Volunteer Corps will admit, to military per leaion. lam apprehenfive, that, as far us the chi. iIIeITCS apply to this force, no provifions are contain, ed in them for giving any greater degree of fydent,, difcipline, and improvement to it, than it is in the road to obtain under the inflitution at this moment. With as enthuliaftic an ardour as any man for that. inilitution, and with a proud fenfe of the honour the country has done itfelf, yet it does not appear to me, as far as I have been able to form an opinion, that we fhall do juhicetothe zeal and energy of the nation in i sown defence, if we do not adopt means for rendering the volunteer force more efficient, and efficient on a mora permanent fyflem. I hold an opinion the reverie of what has been dated by my Honourable Friend. So far am I from thinking there is too much in the prefent fyflem for giving the Volunteers difcipline, that lam of opinion there is too little. I have no idea that the ()item of Volunteers is that of a rude mafs of individuals in whole hands arms are put ; if that was the cafe we fhould want nothing more than an enrolment, all the expence of chrathing and dril ling might be faved. I conceive the whole (Nett of the fyflem adopted lad year was gradual improve. ment in military knowledge and difcipline ; every one mull be fenfible it cannot be acquired at once; the lyltem is, to make a great number of men do more than the fame number would do without it, and to apt with lees rifque to the Country, and kfs dan ger to thernielves ; and I take it, that hy giving a certain degree of difcipline, you will produce with lets lids a greater certainty of victory. lam per loaded, that, to render a Volunteer force more eta. cient it ought to be difciplined univetfally : and that its efficiency is nothing, while the corps contra of in dependent istimpaviies. They ought all to be formed into battalions. Whenever they can affemble fre quently, it fhould be done ; and they caw fcarcely be to fcattered as not to wider it praillicable. They would from this circumtlance, be fubjedt to an in. fpetion and contrnul highly beneficial to them. The next meafitre to be looked to is the giving every bat talion what they are molt demons of Obtaining, I mean the Alliance of Officers of Service, to aid them in forming. I think there fhould not be lefs-to every battalion than one Field Officer and an Adjutant of the Army, maintaining their rank and receivingpay as if ailing with the Regulars. 7 Mr aware the ex. pence will be confiderable, but when I know and fee the difference herween a battalion which has had the advantage of the Field Officer who has been bred to the proleflion, and thole which have only had the zeal and attendance of their own Officers, I muff lay, that the difference of expence might not to be regarded, and that the advantage of giving fuck a ' degree of perfeidion to the volunteer force of the country would be cheaply porchafed. I am not able to form any accurate eflimate on a vote which is only on account, but I think there can be no al. lowance made for what I have deferibed. Neither am I able to judge what proportion of force confab of thofe Volunteers that were railed ander the tams prior to the 3d of Auguft, and thofe of a different Merit). don ; neither know I to what number an Adjutant has been given ; but I do not think that the wholes expence would amount to t 60,000 or stfo,oool. a year. Now, if by that we (fall be enabled to minim a confiderable progrefs in military difcipline, tog e iv s : efficiency to 3 or +OO,OOO men, and improve year after year, fn that they may be brought to it date of perfeftion which will enable them to affift the regular army, fore I am no Gentleman will hefitate to fay that any general expence, compared with the advantage, would be improper. But I would not flop there; I certainly cannot conceive that the mei lure I have hated can completely anfwer its purpofe with the very (lender number of days left to difciplina the corps, except with refped to thole accepted before the 3d of Augull. The number of diem, I under hand, is . 40,000, all the red are not allowed to re ceive ray for more than 2c, &AO, now that so days ire rot enough, is not only the opinion of thole Ad jutanb, of whom I have enquired, but el Govern ment ; for I obferve, that in one of the regulations it is hated, that the Adjutant (hall have pw when is certified that the corps have been enter' Unluckily it happens, that thofe corps, wl titled tc , have Adjutants, are only to for zo days. Now, it is impoffible to year after year we tan be taking gain their livelihood by their labour, employments for fo long a period as If it is neceffary ihey fhould be exceeded . a time, they fhould be allowed fufficient throld be inclined to hope, not with . any neceffary expence, that A lets numb - el would be adequate to every purpofe of mit t pline ; but I think there ought to be comfit 'than twenty days allowed. Perhaps, if fifty or fusty for the nest year, and forty ter, fo as to keep up the dilcipline of would be all that would be reqnifite. out this by way of luggellion. the pence; be (Ili -plied by others. If it is Adop:e,t, it a year for each man. • Stipp. fe tea ci c eding 500,0001. to the annual ct in re , orit you maintain an inmy of f ici pa A r s i tdii I floe of improvement, 1 k, C-trunittcc to Ur, whether it is not I pay. when it cifed 84 day which are e receive pa fuppoie tha perfons wh , out of th' is 4 day'. NJ for fo lon cient pay iing to fp mber than military difc ifierablym if ththetralre yearl al e li f sy r a n e a,n: era add it it , :timates. a ch magnitio cave it to t the cheap