Star. — London, England, 1821-05-12 00:00:00

*, . % - ' ' PARLIAVENTARY MOCEEDLVGS. HOUSE OF LOADS,. MAY 11. Their Lordships met at ten o'clock to hear Appeals. " Morgan n. Sir Watkin Lewis." This was an appeal from the decision of the Court of Exchequer. Mr. SLALZ was heard for the respondent.—Judgment postponed. The Glerawley Divorce Bill was, on the motion of Lord St. Gxaxaias, read a third time and passed. The following Bills were brought up from the House of Om woos .—The Detain Gas Light Company Incorporation Bill, the Steam-engine Smoke Consumption Bill; the Chichester Police Bill; the Westminster Improvement Bill; the Conway Bridge Bill, and Mile-End Gas Light Bill, which were read a first time. Sir H. PARNELL brought up a Messag e from the House of Commons, stating that the Commons had agreed to the Anumd ments made by their Lordships in the Holyhead Road Bill. The Earl of SHAFTESBURY matte a Report from the Committee of Privileges, which set forth that John Fart of Portarlingtnn had made good his claim to vote for the Election of Representative Peers for Ireland. The South London Gas Light and Coke Bill was read a second time.—Adjourntsl to Monday. HOUSE OF COMMONS. The Smitten entered the House at a quarter before four. Lord BARNARD presented a Petition from certain persons interested in the Woollen-drapery Trade in Bandon, against the laws affecting the same.—Ordered to lie on the table. Mr. A. CAMPBELL presente 1 a Petition from the Cham ber of Commerce, at Greenock, against any alteration in the Usury Laws.—Laid on the table. Mr. BLACKBURN E presented a Petition from the Clergy and Inhabitants of Preston against the custom of Bull-baiting.— Laid on the table. On the motion of Mr. Lunn:terve, the Militia Pay Bill went through a Committee of the whole House, and the Report was ordered to be received on Monday. The Irish Militia Pay Bill went also through a Committee, and the Report was ordered to be received on Monday. Upon the motion of Mr. Hums, several Returns on the table were ordered to be printed. Upon the motion of Mr. Lusurriceon, it was ordered that the House ' on its rising, do adjourn to Monday next. Mr. CIIICH ESTER postponed the second reading of the Dundalk County Court-house Bill to the 27th instant. Lord A LTIIORPE, after stating that in consequence of the period of the Session at which they were now anivedc wished to postpone the County Courts Bill to the next Session, and moved that the said Bill be re-committed this day six months.— The motion was agreed to. Upon the motion of Mr. J. Smelt, the lknkrupt Laws .Amendment Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on 3londay. The Witnesses in Foreign Parts Bill was read. a second time, and ordered to be committed on Wednesday next. The Irish insolvency Court Bill went through a Committee : the Report was received, and read.—Ordered to be taken into further consideratior. this day sennight. A .ties..ige from the Lords informed the House that their s agreed to several Private Bills, ar,d the Apprentices' Intlentii.e Bill, without any Amendments. The rquis of TICHI lEI.D brought up the Report of the Committee on the Warwick Election, which declared that the Sitting Member was duly returned, and that the Petition was LOL fiivolous nor veitatiouw. Mr. C. DUN DAS brought in a Bill to amend the 22d of the late King, for the better Relief and Employment of the Poor.—Read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Monday. biund to take notice of it. He was the more induced to think so, for this reason-.41e bad heard it out of doors that persons orhigheondition—(Hear , hear) — nay, that men who were thought worthy of a seat in the Councils of this Nation, were at the bottom of, and countenanced thit vile publication--:(Lottd cries of Hear, hear).—He would not say what truth there was -in this, but the House ought to be in debted to his Honourable Friend, who, by a gene rous exertion, endeavoured to bring this matter to light, to expose the hidden assassins who were its real supporters, and shew to the world, that though wretches could be found vile enough to come to the, Bar of that House and take the responsibility on ' themselves, yet so clumsy was the pl ot, so base, so unblushing, and so barefaced were the evasions of ' these mean instruments, that the Public would not be duped to think them the real Proprietors of the Paper—(hear, hem).— With regard to prosecution by the Attorney-General, that was not a course which he' would recommend, because this was not, properly speaking, a libel upon the House. He would, him-, ever, have the House guard itself against any misre ' presentation of its debates from improper motives.— , He had no motion to make, but he would recom mend to his Hon. Friend to withdraw his motion, for, it would give him pain to vote against any motion of' his, and yet that was a course which he would be obliged to take on the present occasion. Mr. BENNETT said, he was always willing , to attend to the suggestions of his friends. In bringing forward this motion, he had two objects in view—, first, to vindicate his character; and secondly, to, drag the author of this paper to the light. The, House had pronounced the paragraph which he sub mitted to them a scandalous libel. It then remained for him to select such of the delinquents as were most guilty for punishment. In doing this, he suffered himself to be influenced by certain feelings, which, perhaps, were not very correct, and he determined, as far as he eras concerned, to bring the defendants to another tribunal, where alone they would have an opportunity of defending themselves. He was ready to admit that his course might not he the wisest one, but he assured the House it was taken up from ho nest and conscientious motives—(Hear, hear).—He was alive to all the objections stated by his Honour able and Learned Friend, and knew the House could grant or refuse this evidence in case of a trial at Bar. Having now, however, done his duty, he had no ob jection to leave the further disposition of this matter to the wisdom of the House—(hear, hear). Sir RONALD FERGUSON was decidedly hos tile to a prosecution by the Attorney-General. His wish was, that these unworthy persons should escape without any punishment—(Hear, hear).—He would, therefore, oppose any motion for committing them— (/hear, hemr).—He was sure his Hon. Friend was ac tuated by no vindictive feelings in bringinrifor ward this subject. His object was to clear liim.s;lf fr om a foul aspersion cast upon him; but his Hon. Friend had done more than was necessary, for his character was not so low in the world as to call for such a pro ceeding. It was, however, natural enough, when a man's honour was attacked, and his courage im peached, that he should feel some uneasiness until these were cleared to the world. He had no diffi culty in establishing one and the other. As to the paper against «hick he compla;ned, though not en tirely successful, lie had at least succeeded in ex posing to the world the base wretches who were put forth to meet the storm. The House saw what a com plete contem et these wretches had for everything like decency and truth, and he hoped the thinking part of the Rublic would also appreciate the future labours of these worthies—(Hear, hear).—He hoped in GOD that the real authors of this most infamous publica tion would soon be dragtted forth—(Hear, hear). — It was, indeed, a new era in the history of this tour.-' try, that a paper, set up confessedly for the purpose of blasting the characters of virtuous women, should' be suffered to exist—( Hear, hear).—But it was more' wonderful that such a paper should find supporters —(Loud cries of Hear).—He wished he could believe the wretches at the Bar to be the real authors ; but, looking to some other paragraphs in the same paper,' he could not shut his eyes to the conviction that others than these men were concerned in it—(Hear) —that its poison was supplied by mean, base, and cowardly assassins behind the curtain—(Hear, hear)—and that these wretches *disgraced a certain rank in society, into which, by some adventitious merit, they had intruded themselves. But he hoped they would be one day dragged forth ; he hoped to see them over whelmed by the scorn of the world : but even this punishment, severe as it was, was scarcely adequate to the flagitious offences which these wretches had been in the habit of perpetrating against society. Mr. BARING thought the honourable Member, by consenting to withriraw his motion, had placed the I House in a difficulty. It was scarcely fair km any' Member to bring an affair of this nature under the notice of the House, and then stop short before the House had vindicated its own "dignity—(Hear). He would advise the Honourable Member not to submit his complaint to a Court of Law; for though the offence might happen to be a great infraction of the privileges of the House, yet a Court of Law might look upon it as no offence at all—(Hear). As the question now stood, the House was committed to go on with it—it could not stop here. The House was called upon to take some measures in its own defence. He was unwilling to interfere, and was induced to do so, only because he saw no other Gentleman inclined to take the matter up. He would now suggest the proper course which ought to be taken. He should premise, however, by stating that he was not an jnemy to reports being given of the proceedings in that House, provided they were fair reports. In ' deed, on the contrary, he thought those reports did much with the country for the character of the House itself—(Hear, hear). Ile would even allow a great degree of liberty in commenting on the proceedings in the House, and make great allowances for the dif ficulty which the Gentlemen who took these reports had in hearing the Members. I)ut the present was not a palliated case. It was not a misrepresentation of something said in the House, but a fabrication of a story from one end to the other(Hear). With r e g ard to the persons who had been at die Bar; he would only say, that as to Cooper, he haviiig avowed himself the author, there could be no doubt as to him. Not having read the paper called John 134,1 re could not say whether there were any ()fliers coocerued in it, wino were unwilling to expose them. selves. He should move, therefore, that Henry Fox l'Cooper,having avowed himself the author of a para graph in John Bull, which was declared to be a false and scandalous libel on a Member of that House, should for that offence be committed to Newgate— (Hear, hear). The Honourable Member then said, that if this motion was sanctioned by the House, he should move that the printer should be dealt with in the same way ; though, as to him, he hesitated whe-i ther be ought to propose the same punishment as in the other case. The printer had, however, been guilty of gross prevarication, and for his hesitation in giving up the author he deserved punishment. 4 With regard to the orher, he was not sufficiently master of the evidence to move respecting them ; but any other Gentleman who had read that evidence might do so. He concluded with hoping, that when matters of this sort were brought before the House, Gentlemen on all sides, forgetting party spirit, would concur in putting them down. The SPEAKEII having put the question (Mr. Ben nett's motion being withdrawn), Sir W. DE CILESI'IGNY rose to thank the Hp nourable Member for Shrewsbury for bringing this matter before the House. But he denied that by so doing the Honourable Member had reduced the House to an embarrassment. The truth was. there was a crying necessity for dragging this foul libeller to light, and, by exposing his malignity, to put the people on their guard against his base designs— (Hear). But he regretted that the real authors were not unmasked. At present they were concealed be-' hind a semen. but he hoped the screen would socn be pulled away, and they would then stand con fessed and convicted before the world—( Hear). Lord NUGENT felt obliged to the Noble Marquis for adjourning this question-last night, and thus ena bling Members to return to the discussion of it with calmer judgments. Ile did not agree with an Hon. Member, that the house was reduced to a dilemma, in consequence of his lion. Friend withdrawing his motion. It was not true that there were s im other means of getting out of the situation in which the House was placed, than by committing the parties to Newgate. There was another mode, and he called the attention of the House to what they had done in a case circumstanced precisely as this was. Early in the present Session the Member for Waterford made a complaint against stn Address from a Pres.' bytery in Scotland to the King, advising his Majesty to interfere, and take some measures for checking the freedom of speech used by Members in the House of Commons. Now a grosser breach of the privileges of the House than this could not be committed ; and yet what did the House do? The Right Hon. Gen tleman moved the committal of the parties concerned; but the Noble Marquis opposite offered an explana tion On behalf of the Presbytery, which was held by the House to be satisfactory, and, after a reprimand, the matter dropped. He would recommend a simi lar course on the present occasion, and he thought the House, in consistency, ought net to condescend to punish such wretches as these, when they suffered a greater attack upon their dearest privileges to pals unnoticed. The wretches about s' hose punishment they were now debating, were but the mean instru ments of an assassin working in the dark—( Hear). —Hitherto this assassin was undiscovered, but he trusted his detection would soon come about, and that, in the scorn of the world and the scofFs of man kind, he would meet that punishment which he so richly deserved—(hear, hear).—He would entreat the House not to debase itself by descending to punish these wretches. The Noble Lord moved, as an Amendment, "That Henry Fox Cooper be called to the bar, and, having received a reprimand from Mr. Speaker, be then discharged." The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that having yesterday had the good fortune to bring over the House to his opinion as to the impropriety of pushing this matter to an-issue in indecent baste, he would not now state further the reasons which in duced him to make the proposition for adjournment, than to say, that he was anxious nothing should be done against justice to individuals, or to send them, with unjust prepossessions against them, into a Court of Law. He knew the interval would be favourable to the final judgment of the House. Ile was as much alive to the privileges of the House as any one, and he thought when individuals transgressed those -psi- Vileges they ought to be punished ; but he would submit that it was always most consistent with the dignity'of the House to combine mercy with punish ment—(heer, hear).—lle wished to see this House deal out justice with an even band to all parties. He trusted that 'in the support of the privileges of the House, as all were alike concerned, all would concur in supporting them, without being turned aside by party views—(Hear,hear).—lle was sorry, therefore, to see this House, on an occasion where unanimity was so desirable, divided amongst themselves. He lamented that an Hon. and Learned Gentleman op posite (Mr. Scarlett), highly distinguished in his pro fession, and possessing those innate sentiments of jus tice which belonged to that profession, should throw out insinuations against a quarter from which he could expect no answer—(Hear)—or that, by im peaching Members in the House, he would give countenance to those speculations which people out of doors were ready to indulge in —(hear, hear): He trusted a gallant General (Sir Ronald Ferguson) would also forgive him if he hinted to him, that per haps his warmth arose more from party zeal than from any feelings connected with individuals in that House. The gallant General was to be applauded for the honest indignation which he expressed at the unmanly attacks upon virtuous women ; but he (the Marquis of Londonderry) should take credit to him self for not being behind the gallant General in these feelings. He certainly thought, that ifahere was one 'thing more than another which ought to be protected from wanton attack, it was the fame of retired and unprotected females—( Hear, hear).—This sentiment he was sure was re-echoed by every generous breast wha heard him—(hoe's hear).—But was he called upon to say more? Did the House understated the insinuation of the Hon. and Learned Member to be of that force, that he (the Marquis of Londonderry) was called upon to disclaim all connection with the Paper or the paragraph in question ? He had no he sitation in saying, that he reprobated the tendency of the publication ; but he was ready to toc t onfes2, he tha h t ad if reading it was an offence— ( transgressed.so far, being unable to. restrain his di ' iosity. Ile denied in the nest explicit way having ever given the Paper in question any countenance whatever—(hear, hear).—liut whilst he reprobated \, N, rr ,yy ~r l ~ ~1~~53 the Paper called John Th&, he was ti)liged to s v. that there were other publications which did no: stain from abusing men, who, by their puhlk ser vites, had endeared themselves to their country. The abusive Press was. not confined to Aka 1,1:111: . torrea s of abuse bad been let loose on public mea from efive quarters. And really, tvben he saw Centlemen at the other side expressing so much honest indignztion the paragraph in question, he .could mot .help recur ring to the feelings which these same Gentlemen ea pressed when comptiints'alf a grave nature had bee !' ; made against Papers for attai.ks upon Members at ibis (the Mai gills of Londonderry's) side of the Hottee —(Hear, hear). —Why was not the .same indignati o n• expressed on all occasions? We shooldt azt hei a t a h s a na ve: ' presented the picture of a truly PritiSh Parliamese acting together in defence of our pri,:ileges—( /fe e t . That indignation which kindled only by our friends, but was dormant at attacks on pollri c A;- opponents, was not, perhaps, very genuine n l / 4 r very' generous—(Hear, kear).—lle called upon the House,. therefote, to go hand in hand to ether on all ncc a . ,ions, when subjects of this sort came before them ; _ Leaving then party spirit out of the question, he wished the House to come to a temperate decision upon this occasion. He recommended them ro .idopr the same course as was done when a comi,la n t privilege was made about two years ago. 04 :hat occasion the complaint was, that ao attack of a ;elf personal nature indeed was made in a Newspa,;ee against a night Hon. Friend of his, not now LI his .place (Mr. Canning)—an attack much more hurtful to his feelings, and infinitely more cruel than the i re. sent, as it charged him openly with laughing to scom the sufferings of his fellow-creatures.—EThe Noble Lord alluded to the complaint against the Than Newspaper, .about two years ago.3—The House would see what had been done on that occasion. He made great allowances for the possihiiity of error._ But he contended, tha case quoted by a Noble Lord opposite did not apply here. If the House adopted that Noble Lord's suggestion, they would let them selves down, and forget their dignity. He thought a reprimand too light,, and commitment to New tt are too severe for the present case. He would therefore move, that Cooper be committed to the custody ef.. the Seijeant at Arms. The clerk then read an extract from the Journals of the House, to chew, that on a corn; hint of Frivi. lege being made, on the 16th Jute, 4019, the peiscu who avowed himself the author of that libel was committed to the custody of the Seijeant at Arms, and then discharged. Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH obsei - ved, that the libel was not set forth upon the Journals. It was, therefore, hard to say, from that evidence, butt fix the ca .e in question was like the present. The Marquis of LONDONDE It it iedg ment is there." M‘. .SCARLETT, being alluded to by the '..;obie Marquis, felt himself called upon to expiain certain observations which be had made. .He sli,Liairnea all party feeling—(Hear, ?ear).—ile had heard it -tared, that this paragraph was written by a Member ul this House: he did not think that possible, and he was glad his Honourable Friend had ti.ade h.s which would acquit this House in the eyes of the Public, by recording its opinion of its character. He was the last man to argue that attacks upon private character ought to be made a political engine of. Ile thought it was fair for the writer of a Newport to advocate ene party or the other; but when a per set up with attacking private characters, it be hoved every good man to set his face against it. He (Mr. Scarlett) had seen but one Number of that Pa per; but if Gentlemen would look at that Number, they would see in a paragraph these, that the writer affected to say, that he moved in high society. Bat was it possible that a man capable of writing ss would be admitted to the society, not of Gentlemen, but of men?—(hear, hear).—ln ancient Rome, Au gustus made libelling women of virtue high treason, as appears from Tacitus. That writer mentioned sa instance of a libeller on women being punished is a traitor to the State. A distinction ought always to be taken between personal attacks and attacks car nected with the support of a party. This he men tioned because an Honourable Baronet in that Home (Sir Thomas Lethbridge) wished to see a Committer_ sitting on the abuses of the Press. He would go as far as any one to punish the libel on the Right am Gentleman absent; but not being then in the Hoeg he could not say what the nature of that libel sat This libel was something more than a misrepreena tion : it " smelled of blood." If the writer wished* bring to an extremity the discussion between &Re. nourable Member and the other party concerneda he wished to produce a breach of the peace--be could not have hit upon a better expedient—(Hen hear).—Nothing could be more criminal than WWI a speech was misrepresented £0 as to bring a Mao: ber of that House into the field—(Hear, hear). -1 10 Paper, as all scurrilous Papers did, would soon broi its own level. The Public would sanction those Pk pers which were the freest from personal attack; and in fact the principal Papers were the most fag from personal attack—( Hear, hear, hear). —He del not mean to charge any one in the House +4 writing the paragraph. This was not like the cod the Right Honourable Member for Liverpool, staid by the Noble Marquis. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY, in etplatee: tion, said he had distinctly understood the meaning of the Honourable and Learned Gentleman beam He did not know whether he had said " C0?' 14 2 of the Nation," or " Councils of the King." L. 7 this misapprehension, he thought it necessarr w n of dicate his own conduct, as well as the conduct those about him. He often obser ved, that,° ader show of their being general rumours, a blow .7 sometimes struck at individuals, though,. direr unconsciously on the part of those who di.rectea_. There certainly appeared to be something in the_lr: nourable and Learned Gentleman's statement eln te! argued that he had given too mach countenince. to these rumours. He wished them should b e as htt' party spit it displayed on these occasions as Por-!i bl4. There was no distinction in the cases; forthougnT libel did not appear upon the Journals, yet the P aw : molt was recorded, and t h e vote was of a moor: • rious nature than the vote of the House on the Pre' . occasion—( Hear, hear). RONALD e F ua El . not Sir tkp Noble Mal (pis learned the art of scanning ` . . 043 ‘ , 1,. s t Itc would have the Noble argil's Ipo6 G a aS losso N said to k h n i s o n „ ! o , ti ; %: t e r s es7:l LIBEL ON MR. BENNETT. The \linkers did not come down to the House till twenty minutes past five, when Mr. H. G. BENNETT rosy and moved the Order of the Day for the House resuming the adjourned debate on the question that the Attorney-General be directed to prosecute Henry Fox Cooper, William Shackell, Thoa.as Arrowsmith, and Robe? t Thomas Weaver, for a libel on the lion. H. G. Bennett. The question having been put from the Chair, Mr. SCA RLETT rose and said, that he conceived the mode of proceeding now proposed to be instituted against the individuals whose names had been just read, extremely objectionable. He was sure, how ever that his Honourable Friend near him would ' do him the justice to believe, that if he objected to ' the course proposed, it was not that he estimated ' lightly an attack upon his Honourable Friend's cha racter. But to institute a criminal prosecution against any individual, after evidence had been first extracted from the mouth of that iadividual himself, at the Bar of that House, appeared to him to be re pugnant to the sound principles of justice—(Hear, hear).—lt appealed to him, also, that the House ought in no case to direct a prosecution merely for a libel on one of its Members. That course, perhaps, ought to be exclusively reserved for gross attacks on the privileges of the House itself. He did not un dervalue those privileges, but it appeared that a more legitimate ground for such a proceeding as this would arise in- a case where a false report was given of the proceedings of the House, and accompanied by a violent commentary, in which base motives would appear to actuate the mind of the writer.— Everybody knew that the publication of what passed in- that House was not a matter of right. It was only tolerated by the House, and tolerated, in his opinion, with the greatest utility to the Public,—( Cheers ). A faithful report of the debates of that House was of the highest advantage, not only to this country, but to Europe—to the Councils of the . Nation, and to the House itself—(Hear, hear).—lle, for one, would always be disposed to allow the greatest latitude of toleration to this practice, but, at the same time, he would be prompt to prevent the publication of proceedings of the House in an unfaithful manlier, and for improper purposes. If a Reporter for a Newspaper, instead of faithfully reporting, misrepre sented what passed in that House, and did so from unworthy motives, that would be an abuse of the toleration, and would well warrant the House in vindicating its privileges. But he, for one, would nevertheless be adverse to constructive breaches of privilege, and he would rather be inclined to praise the House for temperance, than for zeal in prose cuting them—(Hear, hear).—Now, what was the nature of the publication before the House? It in sinuated that his Honourable Friend was terrified into making an apology. He (Mr. Scarlett), and every one who knew his Honourable Flicad, must know and feel that this was a most false and slander ous attack on his Honourable Friend's character— (Hear, hear).—When any Member gave pain to an individual by an observation in that House, it was quite honourable in him to allay that pain by an ex. planation. This was true courage, for it was hu manity, and proceeded from a humane motive. But to say that such explanation arose not from his own sense of having inflicted . pain, but that it was extorted from him through tear, was in his opinion me of the greatest offences against the privileges of the House hear).—The House owed its thanks to' the Honour able Member, therefore, for bringing this subject un.:er its consideration. His ( bc' arlett' s ) attention bad been called to the parak.ral.h in ques tion since it became matter of discussion in .he House, and he thought from reading it, that the House was atteution had been called to the parae.raph in ques- Ball, he could not say — whether there were any ialiers iosity. tion since it became matter of discussion in die 110 co..cerued in it, who were unwilling to expnse them• ever g and Le thought from reading it, that the Ileum: was selves. He should move, theivfore, that henry Fox whatev . • • • • • •i S' N w ci II ti al