Star. — London, England, 1821-03-30 00:00:00

% the number of ships now stationed off the island of' St- lam.—Agreed to. ' 111r:GOULBIJRN said, he was quite ready to Meet any charges which might be made against the persons having the custody of Bonaparte. Sir It. WILSON still persisted in maintaining his opinion on this subject. No law of nations could justify his son being withheld from him, if it were only for the purposes of education. Bonaparte might now well say what Mithridates did to the Romans —« .\ on aunt rensissus sed reversus, si non credis, dimitte me." Mr. GOULBURN wished to correct the statement of the gallant General. The case of Bonaparte did not resemble that of Mithridates among the Romans, he (Bonaparte) 14ving compared himself to Themis tocles seeking an asylum with the Athenians—( Hear, hear, front Me Opposition benches). Mr. C. H. HUTCHINSON said, the time was now come when all men might speak out on the subject of Napoleon Bonaparte. There was a period when his detention might have been necessary, but no man now could say the Government became the : jailors of the Holy Alliance, except for purposes which he feared they would not explain. The foreign Courts of Russia, Prussia, and Austria had slicwn the ty ranny they intended to practice—a tyranny more little and more insulting than that ever practised by 'Bonaparte himself. None of These Powers performed their promises % nor could it be believed that the Holy Alliance forsooth, had the liberties of mankind at heart in wishing England to keep Bonaparte a pri. sorer. In the Congress at Vienna, in the Treaty of Paris, the great and sacred principles of liberty were completely forfeited. The whole of the proceedings since the peace of Paris, was in direct opposition to the objects for which the war was of iginally entered into. Bonaparte had some excuse for the mode of warfare he adopted, however objectionable he (Mr. I Hurchinsen) as an individual considered it ; but there was no excuse for the conduct now adopted by the leagued despots of Europe. The conduct towards Bonaparte was cruel to him, and unjust to the Eng lish nation. It was very well for Russia and Austria to continue the persecution against Bonaparte; but how would England's conduct look in the page of history ? Could any man state, however prejudiced he might be, that the necessity of the times required England to be the perpetual jailor of that man? On public principles the imprisonment of Bonaparte could not be maintained, even if the mode of impri sonment were not as insulting as it was made. But he had another ground of objection to his detention, inasmuch as it cost the people of this country nearly Half a Million of Money annually for his support! He declared to Goo he knew not on what ground , Bonaparte was kept a prisoner at St. Helena, except it was to gratify those despots whose object had been to curtail the blessings they promised their people— (Hear, hear). —He challenged the Government of this country to come forward and state their motives; if they did not, the House, and the country, and the world, would know the only construction which ought to be put upon their silence—(Hear). The question was then put and agreed to. EAST INDIA 'COMPANY ' S DEBT. Mr HUME moved, that there be laid before the Nouse a Return of the amount of the Debt due to the East India Company from the Government. The amount of that debt, in 1815, was C 1,300,000; in 1816 it amounted to £2,000,000; and in the year 1817 nearly a million was voted towards the balance. In 1818 it amounted to £1,49,0006, and it now amounted to nearly £2,000,000. His object then was to shew the state of the account for each year, and on what account it had been increased. He then moved, that there be laid before the House an Ac count of the Debt due from the Government to the East India Company, for Stores, Expeditions, &c. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, he had no objection to the motion ; but he would subjoin to it a direction for a return of the payments made to Paymasters-General, and all other payments charged on the East India Company.—This being added to the motion, it was agreed to. CATHOLIC cLAnts. Mr. R. SMITH brought up the Report, and 'on the motion that it be now read, Sir T. LETHBRIDGE declared, that his opinion on this Bill remained unchanged ; and that he would move, on the third reading, to defer it for such a pe riod as would get rid of it altogether. He thought he might state, that this Bill was offensive to the great body of the Catholics in Ireland; and that Ge neral Meetings, he believed, had taken place in Ire land, at which the Catholics in that country had declared the greatest disgust towards this Bill. This he believed, though he had no actual authority for saying so ; and he believed it the more, because, in his opinion, it was not likely to conciliate the Catho lics of Ireland. He had still further grounds for thinking so, because the Honourable Member for Cork had declared that this was a Bill which was in sultirag and degrading to the Catholics of Ireland.— He had to state, that if he had said anything of the Noble Lord (the Member for Ayleibury) which was injurious or hurtfulm his feelings, he most assuredly did not mean any stich thing. Lord NUGENT said, nothing could be more pleasing to him than to hear this apology from the lion. Baronet; and lie could assure him, that the la hole was buried in oblivion. Mr. ABERCROMBIE said, he had it on the au thority of the best informed persons, that the great and respectable body of the Catholics of Ireland were most grateful for the concessions proposed to be granted to them. Mr. It. MARTIN said, he had no doubt that this measure would be as grateful to the Catholics of' Ireland generally, as it would at last be to the Ca tholic Clergy of Ireland. Mr. O'Connell could not get above nine signatures to a Requisition for an Aggregate Meeting of the Catholics of Dublin ; and if there were office* raining down as thick as hail, none of them would fall on him. Mr. C. HUTCHINSON contended, that his Ho. nourable and Learned Friend was riot justified in saying that the respectable body of the Catholics was thankful for this Bill. He (Mr. Hutchinson) knew many highly-gifted Catholics, both in the Church, and at the Bar, &c. who considared this Bill as one of an insulting and degrading nature to the whole body of thetatholics, On Monday he would vote for the repeal of the penal clauses in this Bill, though he might not divide the Hou,se upon them. He had no correspondence wiih Mr. O'Connell, but be had the honour of his private friendship ; and there could not be a better friend, father, or husband ; nor a truer friend to Ireland, though Gentlemen might differ with Mr. O'Connell on public matters. Mr. ABERCROMBIE was sorry that so gross an, absurdity had been attributed to him, that out of five, or six millions of people there should be no difference of opinion. Mr. GIPPS wished the movers of this Bill to con sider the chance how far Roman Catholic Schools might not, by this Bill, be open to the education of Protestant children. Mr. W. W'YNN said, the Bill itself called upon every Catholic Schoolmaster to take the oath of ad herence to the Liturgy of the Church of England. The Report was then read. Mr. CROKER wished to call the attention of the House to the circumstance of the hardship upon Pro testants, to call upon them, in their oath of supremacy, to declare that the Pope had no spiritual jurisdiction in this country. This was hard on the Protestants, when it was known that the Pope had a spiritual power over the Catholic Clergy of Ireland, as well as the Catholic places of education in that country. But how much more would this weigh upon the Protestant, when by this Bill the spiritual supremacy of the Pope was to be distinctly established and acv knowledged. He therefore should move, that in the oath the words " Roman Catholic" before the word " subjects," be omitted, so as to make the oath of supremacy the same to the Catholic as to the Protes tant. It had, however, been suggested to him, that this amendment had better be made on the third reading of the Bill; he should, therefore, only consi der this as a notice of his intention. Mr. PEEL concurred in this absurdity, and he had intended to have noticed it. How could they ask the Protestant to deny that which they called on the Catholic to acknowledge—namely, that the Pope had spiritual jurisdiction in the country? This was thrown out for the consideration of the framers cf the Bill. Mr. W. WYNN said, it depended on the sense in which the- words " spiritual authority" were to be understood. Mr. PEEL said, that if the Catholics meant no co active authority on the part of the Pope, why could they not take the same oath with the Protestants? Lord CASTLEREAGH contended, that the Pro testant might take this oath, because the Catholic considered the terms of it merely in a doctrinal sense, without any co-active sense attached to it.— In his opinion, the two oaths meant the same thing ; and that the Protestant took his oath with the same mental qualification as that with which the Catholic took his. Mr. CROKER held it to be utterly impossible' that the Catholic and the Protestant could take the same oath ; for that of the Catholic acknowledged and legalized the spiritual authority of the Pope. Dr. PHILLIMORE contended, that the Protest. ant denied, by the old oath, that any authority what ever had power over his conscience. It was, how ever, far the Catholic to meet any objection, and to conciliate all difficulties. Mr. CANNING thought it more convenient to re serve the debate till Monday. Mr. CROk ER said, he had formerly said he would call the attention of the House to this trap for the consciences of the Protestants, namely, the Oath of Supremacy. The Amendments in the Bill were then agreed to. Mr. C. HUTCHINSON said he had in his hand a letter from the Pope, in which he enjoined the Ca tholic Prelates of Ireland not to meddle with any thing political or temporal in their correspondence with the See of Rome. Sir JOHN NEWPORT moved a clause, that no Catholics should vote at Parish Vestries, or have any share in Protestant parish offices or business. The clause was agreed to. Sir JOHN NEWPORT moved certain clauses re gulating the residences of Roman Catholic Prelates and Clergymen, and the power of the Commissioners to punish them for non-residence, &c. which were all agreed to. Mr. CROKER now moved a clause, to enable his Majesty to take measures for providing for the Ro man Catholic Clergy. This he thought a most im poi tant part of this measure, and he thought this the only time for carrying it into effect. The first ob jection to this was, that it shouli be left to the Go vernment to provide this measure. But would any Protestant Parliament agree to leave so large an ex penditure in the power of Government? The Legis lature at large must give its sanction to this measure, for without that the Government would be highly impeachable if they made so large an expenditure of money. He knew that the Government ought, ulti mately, to apportion any allowance to the Catholic Clergy; but Parliament must first sanction the prin ciple of that allowance. Without this measure they would be still keeping the flame of discord and dis union alive on this subject. Any arrangement to be made should be liberal, and suitable to the main tenance of the Catholic Clergy ; but not so large as 'to separate them from the interests of their flocks.— He then moved, that Commissioners should be ap pointed, under the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, to in quire into the state of the Catholic Clergy, and to apportion such provision for them as the King might be advised to rant. Lord CAS'ILEREAGH thought this was not a proper time for bringing forward this measure. He himself would not join Locd Sidmouth's Govern ment, until he found that (though otherwise hostile to the Catholics), they were willing to recommend a provision for the Catholic Clergy. That at pre sent they were completely in the dark as to the na ture and extent of the provision to be made. There fore, this could not be a conclusive measure, but must come back to Parliament. He thoiight that this should come as a matter of grace and favour from the Crown; because he thought that neither the Presbyterian nor tratholie Clergy had any right to a provision from the Crown. He infornied the Catholic Clergy, that Lord Silmouth's Government was prepared to recommend to the Crown the making a provision for them ; and their answer was, grate fully and respectfully, that at that time they could not accept of it. For these reasops he should object to the clause, though he was as eager as his Right Honourable Friend for this measure. Mr. C. HUTCHINSON considered this a most delicate question, and one which ought not to be M.••••• discussed without the most perfect understanding with the Catholic Clergy of Ireland. This measure might, however, become one of future arrangement. Mr. CROKER explained. He never said that the Catholic Clergy had any rights, but he did suppose them to have wants and necessities, which he thought 1 Parliament ought to provide for. He should with draw his motion until the passing of the Bill, because the Noble Lord had admitted this to be necessary to the VICCCSS of the whole measure. Lord CASTLEREAGH explained. He was not authorised to give any hope that Government would agree to any such provision for the Catholic Clergy. Mr. CHOKER opposed an amendment by Mr. Gipps, the object of which was to prevent endow ments of Roman Catholic Schools and Colleges. Sir J. NEWPORT also opposed it, because they would then force the Roman Catholics to send their children abroad %r their education. Mr. W. WYNN said, this Act could not enable the Roman Catholics' to endow schools if they had not this power before. Mr. GIPPS said, that if the words were not left out, the clause would be inoperative. Mr. HUTCHINSON opposed the amendment; and thought it singular that everything else should be conceded to the Catholics, except that they should 'be educated in the same schools as the Protestants. Sir J. NEWPORT defended the clause as it stood, which was finally agreed to. The Bill was ordered to be read a third time on Monday, and to be printed. TIMBER DUTIES. Mr. WALLACE having moved the Order of the Day, for the House to resolve itself into a Commit. tee for the consideration of the Report of the Com mittee on the Timber Duties, proceeded to call the attention a the Committee to that Report. He said, that all the important circumstances connected with the subject were detailed in it. Previously to the year 1819, timber was regularly imported from the Bal tic only ; but subsequently to that period it had been imported from Norway and North America. He then quoted various statements from the Report, to shew that the reduction of the quantity of colonial timber imported, bore no proportion whatever to that imported from the North. Whatever protection it might be necessary to afford to our colonial trade, those Duties were by no means essential to it, nor were they consistent with sound policy towards those countries in the North of Europe, with which we ought to carry on a commercial intercourse upon a liberal principle. The system of Duties was exorbi tant, and the protection to the Colonies enormous (Hear).—The Right Hon. Gentleman then urged se veral arguments to prove the necessity of an altera tion in the Duties as they now existed. He was well aware that the Shipping Interest was opposed to any alteration, but he was happy to say, that this was the only interest hostile to it. Protection to that in terest might be carried to an extent injurious to the other important interests of the country. He was ready to allow that a commercial marine was essen tially necessary to a commercial country ; but when carried to excess it became a burden. In his opinion, the regular trade of the country had always been found sufficient to meet any emergency. He thought that the Marine Establishment of 1792 bore no pro portion whatever to the present one. The establish ment now kept up exceeded it by many thousand sailors. The shipping employed in the timber trade was of the very worst quality, and fit for nothing else but the conveyance of timber; yet this was the very shipping which pressed so heavily upon all the good shipping of the country. It was essentially ne cessary to the existence of a prosperous trade, that a reduction of the shipping should take place. A tem porary advantage might be derived from keeping up a large number of ships, but ultimate loss to a very great amount must be the necessary consequence. It was on this account that he wished an immediate re duction. The trade of the country was to be pro. moted, not by forced but by gradual means. We ought to give foreign nations such an interest in trading with us, as would tend to the advancement of our commerce in its several branches. The great principle at which he aimed, was that of bringing timber into this country at as cheap a rate as possi ble. From a comparison which he had made of the portion of the timber trade carried on by this coun try with that of other countries, for some years, he had not the least cause to fear that whatever altera tion would be made in the Duties, the shipping of this country would still enjoy a fair proportion. Of the various classes of persons who had been examined before the Committee, all, with the exception only of the Ship-owners, were of opinion that some altera tion was necessary. In looking to the evidence, Hon. Gentlemen would observe, that considerable admis sions were made as to the utility of American timber, for various purposes. Most of the Gentlemen who were before the Committee thought that two-thirds of the consbmption of the country should consist of American timber. The Right Hon. Gentleman re ferred frequently to the Report of the Committee on Foreign Trade, and said, that the measure which he was about to propose to the Committee, was not in tended, by him, to be a permanent measure. The consumer would have timber cheaper by continuing to import it from both America and the Baltic. The measure which he meant to propose, though, per haps, not commercially the wisest, yet was morally just, and not, he believed, politically inexpedient. His Resolution would go to ;he alteration of all the Duties, as they at pretent existed. With that view, there were three points which became the subjects of his consideration. The first was, whether some part of the Duty were to be taken off the timber imported from the Baltic, leaving the Duty on the timber from the Colonies as it was. The second point was, whe ther an additional Duty should be put on the Colo nial timber, leaving untouched the Duty on the Bal tic timber. The third was, if it were not better to make an akeration on both. With respect to the first, he was of opinion that the taking off the Duty on the timber from the Baltic would have the effect of im porting that timber entirely, to the exclusion of the American timber. It was fit that we should at length adopt a system of liberality on this subject. He be lieved that with respect to the importation of timber and linens, the Powers of the Continent were discon tented on account of the Duties imposed by us on those articles, The system, then, on which we had hitherto acted, ought to be departed from. After several other observations, the Right Hon. Gentleman concluded with moving as a Ile:dation, "That the se are now imp : e ai d d i o r i t t lie r Z e; venal Duties which ported into this country, do cease and determine, a n d other Duties and Drawbacks be Lord ALTHORPE entered into a review of the Canada trade, which he described as operating in the shape of an immense tax upon this country, kept up for no other purpose than that of working ships tha were rotten and unfit for any other service. He sug. Bested the propriety of imposing a duty of 50i. on Baltic, and 10s. on Canadasimber, and of regulating the Duty upon deals by cubic measurement, instead of by mere length, as at present. Mr. MARIRICATT expressed himself at a loss to know why the Colonial and Shipping Interests should not meet the same protection which was afforded to the Landed and other Interests of the country. It was impossible that, without such protection, they could enter into successful competition with all the Shipping Interests of Europe. The proper line of policy for this country to adopt towards other coun tries, was that of justice and reciprocity in trade, not liberality, for it was to be feared, that if they relied upon the latter system alone, they would be disap. pointed in the expectation of a similar conduct from other countries towards them. He thought a duty of ten shillings on American timber would be consistent with the evidence, though beyond that he would not go. But if the Resolutions should assume the shape of a Bill, he should most decidedly oppose the re duction of the duty on Baltic timber. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER es. pressed his hope, that the suggestions of his Rigs* Honourable Friend, and of the Noble Lord, would lead to a more liberal policy. He recommeskkd, the more convenient course, to agree to the Resoles tions, in order that •they might be printed, Aft they might be recommitted, and any Amendment, introduced. After a few observations from Sir H. PAnNtt.t i Mr. DOUGLAS, Mr. BARING, Mr. GLADSTONE, Mr. RICARDO, Mr. BENNETT, and Mr. WALLACI, die Resolutions were agreed to ; and the House having resumed, the Report was ordered to be received dim day.—The other Orders of the Day were then dis posed of, and at One o'Clock the House adjourned. THE EVENING STAR. LONDON. FRIDAY, MARCH '3O, 1821. The accounts which we have to-day to present to our Readers, appear to concur in , establishing that. the cause of the Neapolitans has not been attended with that success which we had at first fondly anti. cipated, and which every succeeding account seemed to render more and more probable. If the Austrians are not as great romancers in matters of fact, as they are knaves in matters of principle, they have indeed triumphed, for the present, over the attempted regene. ration of one of the fairest portions of civilized Europe. The Neapolitans have vanished from the field; the ' old, rotten, despotic system of Government has been restored ; and the PRINCE REGENT, of whom we had hoped better things, has added himself to the num ber of those with whom the most sternn Oaths are nothing, and appeals to lIEAvEN to be held sacred only in as far as they meet with the approval of a certain impious Alliance, which has not scrupled to arrogate to itself both the title and attributes of ONI NI POTENCE. The truth—if such be the truth—carries c bovrever, consolation along with it ; it is not in the nature of things that such a triumph can be of long duration; there is a spirit of liberty abroad which no physical power on earth can ever subdue, and which, sonar or later, must prevail over everything that tyrants and the tools of tyrants can oppose to it. A Supplement to the Gazette Extraordinary of Flo rence, published on the 17th, states, on the authority of accounts of the 15th, from Rome, that after tire affair at Rieti General Pare had been abandoned by his troops ; that the force at Gaeta, under General BEGAN!, had revolted ; and that, on the return of General FARDELLA, and the Minister at War, free an interview with CARASCOSA, at Averso, the Par liament had authorised the PRINCE REGENT to itlTiie the KING to return to the Capital, and then dissolved itself. It is added, that General FARDELLA, had passed through Rome, on his way to Florence, wide dispatches from the PRINCE REGENT to his father. We have endeavoured, but in vain, to identify any of those discrepancies which some of our contem poraries have thought' themselves fortunate enough to discover in this account. It is with pain we con fess that it appears to us to be in the main sufficiently consistent, and to have altogether a great air of veri similitude about it. It is stated that, on the evening of the I I th, dispatches were received at Naples, annaon• cing the desertion of General PEPE by his troops; and from the private letter which we have subjoined, from Naples of the• 9th, and which is, we believe, the latest intelligence direct from that city, it will be seen that it was on the 11th that the Neapolitan Generals had determined on coming to an engagement with th° enemy. So far, therefore, both accounts are in off* cient accordance ; and, as to the events of after dates they appear to succeed in order consequent enough. It is to be farther remarked, that all the advices from Paris, down to as late a date as Wednesday night, concur in giving credence to the statements in the Florence Gazette; and, indeed, the adoption of them in the Moniteur may be considered as furnishing the demi-official sanction of the French Government to their accuracy. SUPPLEMENT TO THE EXTRAORDINARY GAZETTE OF FLORENCE. " FLORENCE, MARC'S 17. After the publication of the Gaxtte of this day, we have re ceived from Rome, dated the 15th, the following ofsys, *lda appeatt to us of the greatest importance : " 04 the: cyoung tai rho i l tlt a thjs r diseatcbti arrived at ali Al ehi II del