Star. — London, England, 1831-07-22 00:00:00

S & rti .111 s: ;; A i;i •, ) . I IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT, HOUSE .LORDS-JULY 21. The Marquis of THOMOND presented a petition from Colic. against the removal of the naval station from Cork Harbour. The Bishop °IC LOUCESTER presented a petition from the inhabhante of S'oetbbridge, Lear 'f onbridge Wells, pray. i; for an alteration of the Beer Act. Mr. FOLEY, and others. from the Commons, brought up several Bills, which were read the first time. '[he Assessed Taxes Composition Bill, and the Forest of D:an Bill, were read the third time, and passed. rtraenueetne DEBTOSS' BILL. Lord WYNFORD, having an amendment to iniroduce by way of rider. upon the third reading of this bill, was de •i,1,116 of die: barging the order for the third reading, which seesel for th 4 s day, to fix it for Tuesday next. Lord PLUNK ETT repented the objection to the bill which he ::lade on a former day. It was bard, lie staid, that person. ;nine, abroad without tiny Liteniion to defraud their ertditers, should, by remaining ni, , 01.1, become fable to all tile c :sequences of the bankrupt laver. A person out of the eetintry unsold have no notice but that which might be 1: f; .t his last plee of re•iience, and if he did not return w tin a given time, he became liable to punishment. The punishmem of a bankrupt for trot swearing under his com mission was formerly capital, but at present it was tram seortatien. Tale was a serious consideration when the peaty male bankrupt was out of the country, and perhaps iirable to return. When the bill came on again for discus. slim, be should give his opinion more at large. The Earl of ELDON said, no person in the house had less feeling in fueour of the bill than he had. It required a great deal of consideration before it could pass. Lord WYN FORD said he should be ready to attend to the suggestions of the noble and learned lords whets the subject came again under discussion. Ile then moved to discharge the order for the third rending aid named Thursday next. TITHE CO3tPOsITIOX RILL. she Archbishop of CANTERBURY moved the Order of the Day for going into a Committee on the bill to fa- dilute payment of tithes. , Lord TSYNHAM said the right rev. prelate's bill re quired much amendmeot and consideration. It would be inoperative in its then shape. An immense weight was ! cast on the owners of landed property. He should not j oppose the measure going into a Committee, but give it his negative upon the third reading. The house then resolved itself in Committee. Lord WY NFOR D proposed a clause to extend the pro. visions of the bill to lay impropriators. The Archbishop of CANTERBURY begged the Noble and Learned Lord would lend his assistance in amending the bill, but he wished to impress upon the Noble and Lennied Lord whether his amendment would not entirely destroy the principle of the measure ? Lord WYNFORD amuted the Most Rev. and Learned Prelate that he would give him all the assistance he could both in that house and out of it. His amendment would not interfere with the principle of the bill. The Earl of ELDON said the bill could not be made available without great alteration. What was to become of all the tithe laws :and the existine compesitions by motive deeimandi fl That was to become of tithes under the claims of a prescription of' non dechnando 9 In many instances where tithe was dem:mad, the proprietors of land lead a right to claim discharge from tithes. It must be Lunen to their lordships, that at the dissolution of monasteries, by the 27th of Remy the Ei e hth, the appropriations belongi sg to religious houses, amouetieg to a third of all the parishes in England, were taken by the King. From that root sprung all the lay appropriations which we now ace in the kin then, the saute havinz, been granted by the Crown. In numberless cases the owners of land, instead of paying tithe, I eonaidered themselves tithe free. TSte noble and learned lord mentioned a case in which an individual claimed exemption from tithe. After the suit had continued lie: or six years, it appeared that the person bell no right to claim exemption. When they consicered the immense number at monasteries of the large and lower order diesolveti, the circumstance of so many objections to the payment of tithes might he accounted for. Persons who purchased land alter the Act of Henry the Eighth were as much entitled to tithes in parishes as the clergy themselves The bill did not contain a single provision relating to those who claimed a right to refuse payment of tithe. It only provided fin payment by composition. There was another part of the bill which was highly objectionable. The landlord's right to distrain had been passed over. That was is new proposi. tion in the law. It did not make it a bill for conposition of tithe ; but a measure for alteration of a fundamental principle of the law of the land. The noble rnd learned lord could not help thinking the bill required a great deal of consideration and that it was impossible it could pass with out many important alterations. The Archbishop of CANTERBURY said if the noble and learned lord had been Ito good as to have stated to him some of the objections made on that occasion, when he un dertook to bring in the bill some months ago, he would have thrown it in the fire. It appeared to him that every word the noble and learned lord had stated was tree, with respect te the difficulties in which tithes were involved, but those difficulties were not raised by the bill. His grace did not see how they int rfered with a composition for tithe, where it was clearly due to the clergy. The riehte of lay impro priators were not touched by the bill, and on that account, without a knowledge of law, he would not consent to the admission of the clause proposed by the noble and learned 1 rd (Wynford). - Ile could not see why persons who admit ted their liability to pay the tithe could not enter into cemposition. If the right to claim tithe was disputed, the ce.upcsition might occupy a court of law. If the noble and learned lord wogld devise any mode to make the bill perfect, lie would confer a great benefit on the country. After a ft w words from Lord ELDON, The LORD CHANCELLOR observed that he did not agree with the bulk of the observations of noble lords oppo site. The noble and learned lord then went on to say that the commissioners, by whom the assessments were to be made. should have no power to interfere with the title of t »her rector or landowner; the former could only take the nismey on proving that that he had a legal right to the tithes. of jection taken by the noble and learned lord (Wyn ford) applied equally to the Irish bill ; and he (tl.e Lord' Chancellor) had cot heard any objections to the powers of thet bill. The noble and learned lord then detailed the du ties of barristers under the intended measure. They were in no case to decide upon the rights of any party, but only to coca'y that the required provisions of the Act had been complied with Lord WYNFORD said be was convinced that the thanks (*the ci.gbiry were doe to the Right Reverend Prelate for Ins intentione; he was apprehensive, however, tbat lie had tee had much to do with the drawing up of the clauses con. 14111061 ill it. He should humbly move that the Bill be dis euss.d :n a privioe Committee, or if that were informal, he hogged to move that the Chairman do report progress, and that tic Bill be postponed till that day sennight, and he should therefore withdraw his former motion. Earl CARNARVON suggested the propriety of the ansendments of the most Reverend Mover of the Bill bring piloted, together with the Bill, prior to its pestpone ment. Mier a short conversation between the Archbishop of CANTERBURY and Lord ABINGDON, the House rounicd. The Committee to sit again on Monday se'nnight. The Duke of RICHMOND presented a petition from Lanark in lavoa of I , eform. Adjourned or Half.past Seven o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Tim gallery ma. not opened until five o'clock, there being two ele ction ballets. The fell.. AL.mbers were appointed to take into con sider:lnm the liiixburgh petition, complaining of the Rox. burgh elet tion : S. Cradock, Mr. Alderman Venable., Lord 31arti,ville, A. Dawson, Sir H. Williamson, Lend Killeen, sir A. Citii.rst..l, J Wynn, Hon. L. Kenyon, Hand. ley. S r W. Hat% kins. &c. Lint :11641 PET H moved that the petition upon the Leeds and 31:webs:ter Railway bill be referred to a Select Committee of Appeal. Mr. STRICKLAND supposted the motion. Mr. W. DENNISON could not support the motion, be. cau , e it was unusual ; but he would support any motion for an improvement of the principle upon which committees were constructed. Sir R. ILRGUSON was favourable to a reconstruction of the mode upon which committees were formed. Lord STANLEY defended the conduct of the committee, and put it to his noble friend whether he should press his motion. Dr. LUSH INOTON said the question was this, were the inv...tigaiion and decision made respecting the merits of the bill by the committee proper? (Hear, hear.) Now, if the itatcanent made by the noble Lord (Morpeth) were correct, 'Neither the investigation nor the,decisiou were correct, for fiom that statement, it appeared that a number of members of the committee, without hearing evidence, came in and overpowered the opinions of those members who hod heard ' the evidence, and the bill was thrown out. After a ew words from Mr. Grosvenor, Mr. Littleton, Mr. O'Connell, Mr. S.Wortley, Mr. Sotiler.Mr.H. Gurney, Mr. Portman Sir 11. Williamson, Sir J. B. Johnson, Mr. Warburton, 'Mr. Moberly, Mr. C. Pelham, and Lord Morpeth, The gallery was cleared for a division, but none took place, the opposition to the motion being withdrawn. Mr. O'CONNELL postponed until this day week a mo tion which stood for this evening, respecting the state of Ireland, as he did not wish to interrupt the progress of the great measure of Reform. TON REFORM DILL. Lord A LTHOR P rose to bring fm ward his motion re. greeting the facilitating of the reform bill. He admitted that there was no precedent for this motion, but he thought he could state special (pounds to justify his erellieg upon the lieu.a to accede to his proposition. He thought that er..n those who opposed the bill, as well as those who sup. ported it, ought to give him their votes in favour of the mo tion which he was about to make. His object was not to force the bill through the committee ; on the contrary, his anxiety was to give increased opportunity fat the fullest discussion of 'he bill. Although, as be before stated, there was no pre. cedent for the motion which he was about to make, he yet thought that the circumstances of the case would justify him in appealing to the house to accede to the motion. The question of reform was of the utmost importance to the cuun. try ; and in his opinion it would be wise in the present House of Commons (indeed, he thought that the people would be justified in calling upon their Representatives,) to Postpone all other puhl!c questions, for the purpose of fur thering that now before the house. if there were lion. petite. in that house who thought that no postponement of the oche- public business ought to take place, in order that the reform bill might be fnzwarded, why anything he might say could not by any possibility convince them. But sure he was that hon. gentlemen must admit the truth of his state. mcnt when he said that the measure of reform was so impor. taut in itself, that it ought to take precedence of every other subject. His motion would be, that the Committee on the reform bill should take precederce of all other public busi. ness, whether petitions or orders, always excepting petitions relating to reform, which would of course always precede the motion for the house going into Committee. Poe the purpose of giving greater effect to the 'dim which ha had in view, it was his intention to request that the Speaker would be p leased to take the Chair at three o'clock. With this arrangement, the house would be enabled to appropriate eight hours every night for the pmccedine on this measure. He ther. moved that the Order of the flay upon the reform bill takc precedence of all other business. Mr. C. WYNNE said that he heard the motion of the Noble Lord with the deepest concern. He thanked GOD it was totally out of the power of the house to comply with such a motion. It was contrary to the constitution of the House to yield to such a requisition • if they did, it would amount to en abdication of their rights. In such a case, no person could bring forward any measure without the consent of the Government. Why if any Member had a petition to present against any Member of the Ministry, he could not bring it forward without the sanction of the Noble Lord. There were many questions of an urgent neture that required the attention of the house as well as the reform bill. Ile was prepared to accede to any understatoiing lion the subject wnich would not form a precedent, and w:,it I. could be revoked, and would not in terfere in the n i nths business of the House. He urged upon his noble friend the reconsideration of his motion. If the motion was sanctioned, it might lead to the giatest conveni -nee to the couture. lie was not aware that there had been any attempt to tirine forward any motion to inter. fete with t 7 e measure. of government. (War". hear.) He hoped that the meek lord would be content with an under. staedire on the point, and not put such a precteleut on the jot. reels of the House. (Hear, hear.) d A LTHOIiP said that he was aware of the irregu larity of his motion. His only motive was to have ample time for the discussion of the Reform Bill. If he could find eta the House was ready to consent that this question %110111 d Conic Oil at a regular hour every day, he would with (tree hie ntotion, and consent to an understanding on the subject. (Cheers.) GOULIWRN said that he was opposed to the mo tion, which would establish a most unconstitutional piece. dent. He was glad to hear that the noble lord was willing to withdraw his motion, and consent to an un on the subject. He really thought that no tin derskilla tlay had been created in discussing the Reform Bill. He was anxious to promote the forwarding of the public business, although he had many subjects to bring before the house. ' Lied MILTON entirely agreed with his noble friend, that the motion was. pregnant with many cells, and he was glad to hear his noble friend express hot inclination to withdraw his motion, and abide by an understanding on the subject. Mr. HUNT looked upon the motion as one calculated to impede public business, unless there were particular days appropriated. Ile had a motion to make upon the corn laws which was of great importance to the community. He did not approve of any understanding upon the subject; he would tether abide by a defined rule, than be left to the dis cretion of the house. If the members gave up their op. position to the bill, there would he no necessity for such a reguLtion ; and an opposition to it war useless, as the ministers had such a majority. He would give up his opposition. (Laughter.) Sir R. PECI, said, that he trusted the noble lord (the Cheneeller re the Exchequer) would act upon his own good sense in this matter, and not upon the suggestions of newepa. pen (cheers); aid view their disgraceful menaces with t ha t contempt that he (Sir R. Peel) and others did. He really belies eel that there was no delay created ; every motion was waived to give way to the reform bill, and nothing like vexatious delay took place. It was impossible to frame a new constitution without consuming a great deal of time (cheers); if there were those who would create unnecessary delay, the effects would recoil upon themselves. Of the 16 notices of motions in the committee, ten out of the sixteen were given by members who had voted for the second reading of the bill—(hear) Those motions involved topics of vital importance, and it was not fair or just to impute to others who wished to disenss it in detail, a desire to thwart the measure. The tact was that the public were getting tired of the proceeding, as the house had already shown symp toms of impatience. This was a proof that the feeling in tl:c public mind upon the subject will only temporary, and would die way. He tweed that the Noble Lord would die. pense with the necessity of any order, and rely upon an un cerstataline, and resort to that amicable understanding that was adopted last Session for the regulation of the public business. Lord ALTHORP, after the speech of the right hon. baronet, trusted the; it would be the understanding that the committee on the reform bill should sit ceery day at four o'clock. (Cries of N. no; five &dock, from several voices.) The noble lord continued, and said that in would fix five o'clock, with the untletetteding that it theuld be adhered to. Here die conversation dropped. AM AND 34118. DEACLE. Col. EVANS slid diat --- t iTibringingiotward his motion he had nor the least intention to amok any person. lie conceived that he had a right to assist the weak against the strong. In the month of November, when the country was very much disturbed, informations were laid against Mr. and Mrs. Dearlepitod a constable was entrusted with a war. rant for their apprelit nsion. Ile then alluded to the pub lished report of the trial, which stated that Mr. Heade was a gentleman of respectability, e.tirl had graduated at Oxford. The judge who tried the cause express - d his regret that such harsh proceedings were adopted towards Mr. and 3lrs. Dsa de. It appeared that 31r. and 31rs. Dcacic had not shown the least violence or resistance to the constable, although great violence had been used in their apprehension. (Hear, hear, bear.) He belies eel that there was a vtty strong feeling upon• the subject in the public mind, and he thought it the duty of the house to enquire into so great an abuse of magisterial authority, as appeared to have been cont.. mined by a magistrate. He would more for the proceedings of the trial at the Hampshire assizes, the judge's notes, the indictment, and other documents connected with the pro. ceedings. And if the documents proved his statement, he would move an address to the Clown, that the magi strates who had so committed themselves be superseded, and if they did not prove the allegations, he would move that the Attorney-General be instructed to prosecute those who had sworn to such statements. The SPEAKER enquired who seconded the motion, and there appearing no person to do so, Mr. F. DARING said that as there appeared to be no person in the house to second the motion, be would do so. (Cheers.) He believed that there was a strong feeling in the public mind, owing to the statements that were published. He begged to call the attention of the House to the situation of the country at the period when the arrest took place, on the 24th of November. The hon. member then referred to the numerous meetings of the labourers which took place at that time, in order to show the necessity of great vigilance on the part of the Magistrates. He then read the affidavits of several persons, to prove that great violence was committed by the peasantry at that time, and that numerous machines were destroyed; and the &Mask of one of the parties stated that a female was on horseback with the mob, and that she appeared much pleased at the destruction of the machinery, and that the female was Mrs Beagle; and the affidavitof another person corroborated the former statement, that she Mrs. Made, desired the mob to fall in ! fall in and that she rode from party to party, and asked this deponent if there were any soldiers near and that Mrs. Deride was assisting in the distribution of the money which the mob had forced from the proprietor of the machinery. The affidavit of another person stated that Mr. Deacle attended a mob on a machine.hre.,k ing excursion, when live sovereigns were obtained ; that Mr. Deacle returned with the mob to a public-house, where Mrs. Dank Tie the patty, and assisted in d;viding the money. The hon. member then referred to other affida vits, which justified the issuing of the warrant against Mr. at.d Mrs. lhacle. He was bound to say that, when the war rant was issued against :Jul Mrs. Beetle, he was aware warrant, ti n te ,, y w w he e i r i e t a i I: cy ore the condition of farmers generally, but that the magistrates had only their duty in issuing the four.: a person in the condition of Mr. Daigle inciting the peasantry to acts a violence. The con stable to whoa the warrant was entrusted said that he could not execute the warrant; but the constable was accompanied by himself and other grade, le n, and a light cart was obtained LS most convenient to eon% ca the prisoner*, as it woad be attended with great 'Lager, if the cotaaable went in a post chaise, as the country at that time was in a state of great ex eitement, and all warrants executed by the aid of the mili tary. Ile wins into the son -t accoropa . .ied by another gentleman, and he would state on oath that Mr. Bingham Baring did not enter the room, and the only reason why he did not gn into all the details, was that the cause was likely to be investigated in another plate. H: daticti that 31r.11ingitam Baring had carried Mn De do, for he (Mr. F. tearing) es corted Mot. Deacle across the yard to the car, wit: a she com plained of the mud, and he lifted her a, rossaiad site traaked .im for his courtetty. It was nue she objected to the testicle. Those facts he could have stated ea the trial, but that he was made a party to the action. He was reedy to admit that he was anxious to iter a te the 11• :inters quietly, as It was ' not a time to IiStCP to small °Net-tit:rm. (Ilea a hear, hear) Ile was afraid of a rescue, cad that bloods'ad would ensile. , It was stated that th^ lady was halispoactl, which was rather unexpected and singular. She had been seen ealing the day before, at the bead of several bodies of 'mu. (Hear, heat.) She (tit; complain of the jolting of the cart, but at a place that e Testae was most lilted; to take place. He denied that the cart went at a great pace, as the constables were able to keep up whh it. He did not believe that any blow was given. It was impossible to prove a negative. He had a conversation with Mr. Mock, who never said one word about P 'how, and he never heard one word on the subject until he hail received an attorney's letter. Mr. Deane conhlnot give 'my evidence on the point, as he was not present at the time, and was not called to prove what had never taken-place. Ile thanked the house for their indulgence, and trusted that thy would believe his statement, and that Mr. Bingham Baring was incapable of eating an inhumane part. Mr. Ferjeant WILDE -aid that thiriog the proceedings rhich tool: plat last November, the depo , itions were sub ',Acted to him by the Attorney-Genera], and it appeared by thoac that Mrs. Druck superintended the distribution of the money that was divided anion yet the mob, and that a prper was • lama by Mr. neacle, Mr. Boyce, and other farmers, antliorizing the increase of wages ; an d he believed that those persons had incited the unfortunate peasantry. Nlr. Boyce was tried and acquitted, and as he felt that the charge against 3tr. Boyce was fully proved, he had him tried ' l ain, with the sanction of the Attorney-General; he was than found guilty, and was transported, and he believed that, owing to this conviction a the promptitude of the longistratc, the violence of the mob was most mato riallt arrested. 'l'he effect of the action where all the par ties were made a patsy to the action, prevented that expla nation which the house had heard from the Hon. Member. The house must be well aware that when all the parties were shat out from giving evidence, that the trial was founded ppm] ex-parts statement. He thought that as the case was likely sea% to come before a Court of Justice, it would be xpedient to content to the motion ; besides, he thought it was impossible to compel the Judge to give a copy of his notes, which were private. He trusted that if on any future occasion the country was placed in a similar situation, that the Magistrates would act with promptitude and vigilance, and not be deterred by any obloquy that was now attempted to be thrown upon their exertions. Mr. B. CARTER observed, that from his own personal experience and knowledge, Mr. Bingham Baring was inca pable of acting the part alleged against him. He believed , that no one would deny but that the magistrates ware obliged to act with the greatest promptitude during the disturbances lest winter. . . Mr. HUME was aware that the situation of magistrates on that occasion was one of difficulty ; but the question was, whether the magistrates acted with too much harshness on the occasion. (Cries of question.) He (Mr. Hume) knew who those core who interrupted him. (Laughter.) If it was true that Mrs. Beagle war not handcuff:ll, was it true also that Mr. Deacle was not handcuffed ? He would ask the learned serjeant what connection was there between the MRCS of Mr. Boyce and of Mr. Deacle. (Cries of question.) He asked for information on certain points which affected the public. In doing so, he must enter his protest against the language of the learned Serjeant respecting the authority with which magistrates should be invested in turbulent times. Were we, then, in a country in which the sight of a magistrate should excite terror ? (Cries of no, no.) Yes, ob•erved Mr. Hume, the learned Serjeant said that the ma gistrates should strike terror in the multitude by their ap pearance in such times. (Cries of no, no.) Such conduct 14 quite disorderly, said the hon. member. If the learned Servant did nut say so, he would be glad to hear him ex plain what he said. Mr. J. CARTER observed that, as soon as Mr. Francis Baring saw both parties handcuffed, he gave orders to remote the handcuff from Mrs. Deacle, and the reason why it was not removed from Mr. Deacle was, that a key was necessary, and it was not at hand. Mr. Serjeant WILDE explained that what he said was, that he thought that the presence of a magistrate, in eon. ducting the pawners, should excite respect and terror in the beholders, so as to prevent their attempting a rescue. Mr. DARING said that Mr. Bingham Baring,on reading the facts which occurred at the trial, prepared a counter statement, and sent it to the press, which they insetted; but what did the Times say next day ? why, We do not .be lion: one ward you say ;' (cheers and laughter.) Mr. B. Baring said that lie was prevented from proving his case at the trial, because hi: witnesses were made defendants. But wha. did the witnesses say ? why, that's an impudent aggravation of the ofrence" (laughter) Much as he res pected the freedom of the press, still he must say that on this occasion it was abused. If any gentleman entertained a doubt ot Cie innocence of Mr. B. Baring of the charge brought against him, he (Mr. Baring) would submit the oapers connected with the subject to Ills consideration, and fie wa:. satisfied that, on perusing them, they would remove his doubts. Sir J. SCA ItLE'rf said the impression made on his mind, on reading the trial, was that all persons who wit nesse') the transaction v.-ere made defendants, for the purpose If excluding their testimony, and that the eireuntstanecs of the case were i•:ttelt exaggerated. Mr. HUNT recollected that the hon. and learned mem het mho spoke last had once put him (Mr. Hunt), and all who were along with him, into a net for a similar purpose (laughter). He should own that it filled him with honor when he read in the newspapers that a woman was hand cuffed and struck with a stick. He felt more bona-struck, as he Wallach . had once been in a similar situation, having been handcuffed between two constables, Avben aliother struck rice his hat, and aimed a blow at his head—(cheers and laughter.) lie would be glad to hear the charge cleared up, but he had heard nuthing as yet to satisfy him that the evi. dence given at the trial was false. Now - he thought that the hest course to pursue was to institute an inquiry. He hoped that we should see the day when magistrates would be better employed than in putting ladies of this kind into carts: (hear, hear.) Had he (Mr. Hunt) been on the jury, and believed the facts, instead of 501, he would give 50001. Mr. MI LDNIA Y entered into a defence of the conduct of Mr. B. Baring, observing that he was perfectly justified in the course which' he pursued. Lord ALTHORP thought that though the Gallant Officer brought forward Ids motion to give the Honourable Member en opportunity of explaining his conduct, that objeet being attained, he did not see that the motion should be pressed. He believed that there was but one person in the house who was not satisfied with the state ment made by the Honourable Member (Mr. B. Baring.) (Cheers.) Knowing as he did Mr. B. Baring a long time, he was satisfied that he could not be guilty of the conduct attributed to him, for a more humane person there was not in existence. (Cheers.) Colonel EVANS replied. The motion was then put, and negatived without a di vision. REFORM RILL. Lord J. RUSSELL having moved the Order of the Day fur the House to resolve itself into a Committee on the Re form Bill, Mr. CHOKER presented petitions from Lydd and New Ramey, against the Reform Bill, as we understood, the con fusion being very great. The House then went into Committee. On the motion that the borough of Downton stand part of schedule A, Lord .1. RUSSELL begged to say a few words respect. lug this borough, because, including the parish, it con tained more than three thousand inhabitants; but as it was an inconsiderable borough, the Government thought that it should be placed in schedule A. He could not give the House satisfactory information respecting the number of 101. householders it contained. The Commissioners sent there by the Home Oflice reported that the number of such houses was 94. The overseers returned that the number Teas about 104. From all accounts it was evident that it would be necessary to go a considerable distance from the town to make up three hundred voters. He would admit that, is proposing to place this borough in schedule A, the Govemment were departing from the principle of the Bill. But they would leave it to the discretion of the House whether they should disfranchise the borough of Dowaton or not. The borough of St. Germaine was simi larly circumstanced. Mr C110KEI: referred to the speech of the noble lord on the introduction of the bill. in which the amount of the popu lation was laid down :Is the rule, without teference to the number of houses rated at 101. He took an interest in the borough of Downton solely on account of public justice. — (Cheers from the Opposition.) 'rma borough and parish con tained upopuLtion of 3114, according to the census of 1821, thus it had 114 more than was necessary to save it. Now the number of houses rated in the borough was 38, and there sere seven boroughs in schedule B not having 38 dec. toral houses. If, as 'he noble lord stated, there were 100 houses in that borough which were w orth 101. a year, still that ~ .ta more than a great number of the borough s in schedule B had ; fur Xi th.:m hid not more t han ISO decor.' houses each. There were 84 boroughs whose franchise was kff untouthed that had not 300 electoral houses each. He would venture to say that there acre may boroughs from which the noble lord would have to go fur. th:r to make up 300 voters than he could have to ° o from Downton. There was nothing to be said respecting Down. ton that was not applicable mere strongly to other boroughs. He thought it of the greatest importance that they should hsve a rule to go by, as the only thing that could justify them teith posterity, or exempt them from the charge of partiality. Under Owe circumstances, he would negative Cis motion. Lord J. RUSSELL would vote that this borough should stand in schedule A, though he admitted the advantage of adhering to the prbciples or the bill. Mr. CHOKER observed that, by the returns laid on the ykatettlay. Bowman contained a population of 3,968, so that it was neer prereiving its two members 31r. O'CONNELL thought that no principle of the bill would be violated in disfranchising a rotten borough. It was not denied that this was a rotten borough. Colonel SIBTHORPE reprobated the frequent use made of the term rotten boroughs in that House. An Hon. Maxima said the noble lord (Radnor) who was connected with the borough in question, was willing that the borough eitould-be dealt with as that house pleased ; but be would suggest that it would be advisable to join this borough with that of Wilton, and place it in schedule B. and by doing so, enable it to send one member to par liament. Mr. CROKER said, that the noble lord alluded to had no option. Those who opposed the bill were anxious to make the borough of Downton as free as the borough of West minster. (Hear, hear.) Afters few words from Mr. O'CONNELL, in explanation, Mr. STANLEY said, that he did not mean to say that the right hon. and learned gentleman would not be in a majority, because the case of Downton rested upon such special grounds, that even if the question were carried against ministers, no principle of the bill would thereby be lost. (Hear, hear.) He denied that they could by any means whatever make Downton as free as Westminster. TM Meg hon. gentleman alluded to the scarcity of dooMell Wein in the borough of Downton, and the poverty of the place, which latter point was ascertained by the fact that the entire amount of taxes paid by the borough in 1830 was 721. sod by the parish in which it was situated only 1101. There facts, despite the amount;of popolation, which was certainly above 3,000 persons, justified his Majesty's Ministers in placing the borough in Schedule A. However, as he said before, let the question be decided as it might, no principle would be involved in it (hear). Sir R. PEEL contended that, according to the principle of the bill, it was impossible not to place the borough of Downton in schedule 11, and his Majesty's Ministers, acting in their judicial capacity, could with great justice support his view of the case. It was with great pain that he advocated the principle of the bill, but he would support that principle in the Committee. iii.(3.iiiiJUSSON supported the placing of Down ton in schedule B, because, in doing so, he was supporting the principle upon which be all along advocated the reform bill. _ An Hon. Mums said that he was not there to support Ministers at their beck or call; he wu there as an indepen dent Member of Parliament, to support what be conceived to be of advantage to the country ; and considering the bo roug in ciliation to be a nomination borough, he would sup port ministers by his vote that night, for the purpose of gt Will; rid of it. Mr. EWART hoped the reformers of that House would not be led away by the sophistry of the right hun. ban. (Sir R. Peel), who attempted to sow the seeds of discord among the reformers. (Hear.) Afttr a few word* from Mr. C. PILHaX, Mr. HUNT said, that unless they travelled a long way from Downton, they would be obliged to give the votes to the sheep on Salisbury Plain. (A laugh.) They should go out of the county to make up a constituency for Down. ton, if they took it out of schedule A. Mr..l. BULLER thought the best way for the House to act would be to stick to the line upon which the reform bill was founded. After an observation from an hon. member, whose name we could not learn, Mr. BENETT said, although Downton had been a no. mination borough, yet under the proposed plan it would no longer be so. He contended that as they bad laid down the plan of 2000 persons sending one member to Parliament, they ought not to depart from it. The gallery was then cleared for a division, when the numbers were, For the motion Against it 241 Majority for Ministers ems-40 Upon our return to the gallery, we found the Chairman o the Committee putting the question that the borough of Dunwich stand part of schedule A. Sir J. BRIDGES rose muely for the purpose of expreas. ing hii high sense of the independence of the members of that house in the votes given that evening. The motion was then carried without a division. Upon the motion the: the borough of Bye stand part of schedule A. (Laugh:er.) Sir C. KERRISON, the member for the borough in goes:ion, challenged any one, either in or out of the house, to say that he had ever practised any improper means in order to get returned. The increase of population between the years 1021 and 1831 was 404, and he therefore thought that some mistake had been made in the return of 1831.' He should vote against the disfranehhenient of .he borough, because his solemn opinion was that tit:. measure would create anarchy and contusion in the country, and that the pe,iple would soon have cause to regret. Mr.IIURGE., the other Member, strongly objected to the disfranchisement of the borough which he had the honour to represent. (Hear, hear.) It was not a 'men borough, but a borough which had long enjoyed the right of send. inq Members to Parliament by virtue of a charter, which enabled the inhabitants to show their gratitude to their landlords. 274 31r. iiDLER rose amidst cries of eptestion ! question The hon. gent. regretted to find that a borough which had sent to that house a hero oho had fought the taales of the country and spilled his blood in her defence, was to fall amidst the general ruin. Sir C. WETHERELL rose amidst considerable confu sion. H e bad heard, when this borough was announced, some persons in the gallery pus upon Aye and Eye. (Cries of oh, oh.) He had heard the pun. It was not his inten. Lion to m a k e a long speech, but if he had deemed it neces savy, he should do so, in spite of any interruption that might be offered to him (cries of go on go on.) The honourable and learned gentleman thought ;hat the census of 1821, and not that of 1831, ought to have been adopted in this case, as by the former the borough would come within the rule. Vl* div question was then put, and also agreed to without a ision. The CHAIRMAN then proposed that the bur e Olt L: Fo..ey should stand part of schedule A. Sir J. BRYDOES moved that the Chairman of the C o miLotteerdsh;gd then LTON itP° theu " pr ghtthC m i l t i ou . r was not so late es t : . ,, they could not proceed further with perfect convenience. Sir IL PEEL said that if the motion of the hon. b.tree t t was pressed, be should vote against it. tiir J. BRYDGES would not press the motion against ti.Z sense of the house. (Bear, hear, go on, go on.) Lord BItUDENELL said that the popolation u; t borough exceeded 2000 by the census of 1821, and he th..r.. fore submitted that it ought not to be disfranchised. if, complained dist the house was pledged to a majority. !N no.) It bait only to refer to the vote given by ,:n alderman, and the apology which he was obliged to consequence. Mr. SEVERN also contended that the borough ex..N4l the line, an that it was in an improving conditieu. Lord J. RUSSELL said, that Fowey was only at: itlear. siderable place, and that only secemeighth% of the botov,f 3 were within the parish of Fowcy. Thepepulation was ands the line in 18:1I, and they could not therefore do otl.•eriti, t than include this borough. 31r. CROKER could not see how the noble lord cotet: distinguish this from the case of the borough of Truro. Mr. GILBERT admitted that Fowcy was an Mucci. demi& place. Sir L. WETHERELL contended, that Fowcy w as , more considerable place than either Caine or Tavistock, ant! asked the noble lord whether its trade and commerce di..! not exceed that of either. Sir 11. LI ARDINGE protested against the rule Qom: by the unid... lord, of requiring that the borough shealil eo-extensivz with at least one of the parishes in %%Lich was situate. Mr. SADLER was glad that the question with respect to Appleby was again to be brought forward. (Cries of quo. tion, question !) Ile thought that Appleby had a right to retain its franchise as well as Mahon, which was also dividrd into two parishes. Fowey stood in the same situation. Mr. PRAM) contended that it was not justice to cor. tinue Caine and disfranchise Fowcy. Lord I NGESTRIE complained of the want of prow. tion in the line adopted by Ministers. Mr. CROK RR said tl.at the borough of Truro was ceo. lintd to the parish of St. Mary, but that, because the boar stretched into two other parishes, Truro was to be put oat of both schedules, and to return both members. Form cam: within the identical principle, for if a hamlet in th; adjoining parish, and forming part of the borough, we t , included, it would come within the line. Mr. GILBERT was for continuing one Melnik' fa Fos cy, but still, in point of population, it could not stand i:. comparison with Truro. Lord J. It USSR LI. explained the rule which the Gerere. ment had laid down, and denied that Fowcy contained 2,00 t, inhabitants. Fowey could bear no analogy to Truro. He hoped that the case of Caine would be brought forward the end of the schedule. Mr. ATTWOOD said that Fowey, not being a noniirk. don borough, ought not to be destroyed. After a few words from Mr. CROKE. and Lord BOUM. WILL, who reserved to themselves the right of bringing th., subject forward again, the question was put, and also r. gta d to without a division. The CH&IIIIIIAX then proposed that the borough of Gat. ton should stand part of schedule A. The cries of adjourn, adjourn ! were loud ; but after a for words from Lord J. RUSSELL, The MP:magas for Gatton both addressed the Houle, and i.escribed Gattou u a respectable and indrputden: borough. The question was then put, and also agreed to witholt The CHAIRMAN then proposed that the borough G: Hasiemere should stand part of schedule A. The question was agreed to without a division. The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, and obtaild leave to sit again this day. The SPEAKER, on resuming the chair, observed these. u it was the wish of the house that he should come down i-. future at three, instead of four o'clock, he hoped that L. should be enabled to take the chair at the latter hour. The Coal Duties Bill was read a third time t and passed, after a few words from Mr. GouLsumst, Mr. SLANE!, and Mr. HUME, The other orders of the Day were then disposed of. sod the house adjourned at Two &Clock. On the borough of Downton the division was for the Mi. Waters 274, and against disfranchisement 244, leaving a majority of only 30, which is accounted for by the followiN 40 having voted in the minority, who have heretofore rind for the Bill. Adeane. H. J. Johnstone, J. H. Agnew, Sir Andrew Lewis, Frankland Astley, Sir J. D. Ban. Lemon, Sir C. Bart. Belgrave, Lord Lopes, Sir R. F. Bart. Bennet, J. Lumley, J. S. Bentinck, Lord George Milton, Viscount Bouverie. Hon. D. P. North, Fred. Buck, L. W. Powell, Colonel . Heller. J. Ramsden, J. Durrell, Sir Chas. Ridley, Sir M. W. Colborne ' N. R. Bickford, W. . ' Denison, J. E. Skipwith, Sir Grcy Ferguson, Sir R. • Staunton, Sir 0. Fergusson, C. Tyrrell, Charles Gotdor, It. Willoughby, Sir H. Greene, W. Webb, Colonel Harcourt, E. V. Wood, Colonel Heatlicote, Sir G. Wroneeley, Sir J. Howard, R. Wynn, Sir W. W. Hothron, John Wynn, Right Hon. C. FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE. i I I j I i 4, ri r ..,.-0 1 l ii (...1 Ai ), .:., .: ;,ii. V. i i [ I. ..,, , ,p! i 1 4 I IA ‘. f 1 1 ' 4 . 1 I i 'll LICLUSIVE EXTRACTS FROM THE PARIS JOURNAL,. FRANCE. PAWS, JULY 2U• An embarrassment has just arisen, which we can easily conceive will greatly perplex M. Casim►r Perier. A great number of the Peers of France have resolved, it is said, not to make their ap- pearance at the Royal Sitting, unless the Mi nistry engage to introduce, in the speech from the throne, a phrase favourable to the institution of the Peerage. The Ministers would voluntarily do so; but they fear to displease, by taking the initiative, ' as the majority of the elective Chamber, and espe cially the new deputies, consider the question of the Peerage as settled.—Journal du Commerce. The National states that the intervention for Poland, of which the discourse from the Crown will, it is said, speak, will confess in the face of Europe that the Government has acquired another fear, that of the cholera morbus. We comprehend well, that this fear may give place to a negociation in favour of Poland ; but in case that negociation should be without success, will it be supported Ir . an eNpedition ? That would be going to meet the malady which they would prevent from coming• —Gazette de France. One of the days, whilst they were insultinc in Paris those persons who sported the ribband of July, and the tri-coloured cockade, a young ma!' walked for a long time in the garden of the Palai , Royal, dressed in white pantaloons, green waist coat, green coat, his hat surrounded with a broad white ribband, and wearing at his button-bole 3 piece of the same colour. No person thought of him ; only some persons said amongst themselves, " There is a legitintatiet who haN courage." " No," said some others, " it is it patriot who has taken that disguise not to be din turbed."—La Revolution. We publish, without comment, the followin,: article from the Tribune; we shall reply at a later period to this renewed doctrine of Diderot, in the " Code of Nature ;" we shall content ourselves at present, with placing it before our readers : Docentarz.—Passicumas AND CONSESCENCNI That which, in all times, in all places, is found in the et. paiestion of all men, is man. Man, thus organised, / 11 ` wants to satisfy, and faculties to exercise. From the satis faction of these wants, and from the exercise of these &all' des, slims the rights of man. The respect of these rights towards his species gives birth to the duties of man. This