Star. — London, England, 1821-06-27 00:00:00

P i R' IRISH REVENUE COMMISSIONERS. On the Order of the Day for the third reading of the Irish Revenue Inquiry'l3ill being read, Mt. DENMAN took this opportunity of again urging his objections to the appointment of the Mem ber for Beaumaris (Mr. F. Lewis) as a Member of the Commission to be appointed under this Bill with sa lary. The Honourable and Learned Gentleman con tended that the principle thus adopted of allowing persons holding office under the Crown to have seats in the House, was a most mischievous and unconsti tutional one. When his Honourable Friend (the Mem ber for Beaumaris) said he should despise himself, and wished the ground to open and swallow him, " Taimajwia: if he could suspect for a moment that taking this office would make any alteration in his political conduct, he had no doubt his Honourable Friend was sincere in what he said; but be (Mr. Denman) could not, on this occasion, refrain from adverting to the instance of the virgin of old, who made a vow of celibacy, and in a few days afterwards was a wife, or some thing else—(Hear). The Ilonourable Member pro deeded to cite several instances in which Members had taken the appointment of Commissioners of Inquiry on various subjects, but without salaries; and said he should move, as an Amendment, that Mr. Lewis, being a Member of the House, should either take this situation without salary, or accepting it with sa lary,-should thereby vacate his seat; and he would also move that the third clause should be omitted en tirely, as k provided that persons taking these si tuations on the nomination of the Crown hereafter, should not vacate their seats in the House of Com mons, if Members, or render them ineligible to be Members hereafter." The Bill was then read a third time. Mr.DENMAN moved first that Mr. Lewis's name should be omitted in the Bill. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was of opinion, and had no doubt the House would agree with him, that the appointment of the Honourable Member for Beaumaris was one most honourable to the House, and likely to be most advantageous to the Public. Mr. ROBHOUSE had nothing to do with the per sonal character of the individual appointed ; he cared not whether the individual was the best or worst fitted for the office, still his ,objection would be the lame; the objection was to the principle. Mr. SMYTH (of Cambridge) combated the ob jections to the appointment of his Honourable Friend; if the doctrines now contended for were adopted,they would have the mischievous effect of excluding ta lents without property from the service of the State. Mr. S. RICE also supported the appointment of Members of the House to this Commission, that they might hereafter be before Parliament to answer for their conduct in their situations. Mr. D. BROWNE defended the Irish Government, and especially the Excise department, and Post-office. Mr. SCARLETT contended that the appointment ought not to have been a parliamentary appointment' with a utlary.—The Amendment was then negatived without a division, as were some :•other verbal Amendments. Mr. DENMAN wished to - have the Bill printed before it proceeded farther. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER saw no necessity for the delay of printing. Mr. DENMAN said, he should then propose a clause, that no Member of that House becoming a Commissioner should receive a salary or remnnerauon. The. CH ANC &LIM of the E)C H EQUER said, the clause was unnecessary, as no Member of Parlia ment could be appointed by the House with a salary. Mr. DENMAN said, he would propose that the debate be adjourned to Friday, and in the meantime the Bill be printed, and on this question he would take the sense of the House. The galleo, was then cleared for a division For the Motion - 31 1 Against it - - 75. Lord MILTON objected to the giving salaries to Members who did not already enjoy salaries and places. He bad no objection to Members of Parliament being appointed ; but as there were upwards of seventy Members of the House who had salaries under the Crown with but little to do for such salaries, why was not the Commission made up out of that number?— The Noble Lord concluded by moving a clause, that no Member of Parliament now, or hereafter to be appointed, under this Commission, should receive any renunexation or salary on account thereof. The gallery was again cleared for a divison ' For the Clause Against it Majority - The Bill was then passed, and ordered to the Lords. NSW LANARK. Mr. MAXWELL rose, pursuant to notice, to move for the appointment of a Commission to examine: into the feasibility of Mr. Owen's Plan. The Han. Mem ber spoke as follows:—It is painful to contemplate the nakedness and famine in the midst of plenty—to hear that the shower of May and the sunshine of July, are a curse—to know that those who clothe our fields with luxuriance, and animate the landscape with their fircks, must withdraw their eyes from the smiling face of nature, to the bitter perspective of a bank ruptcy and a dungeon. When we behold the igno rant Stoicism of those who have induced such disor der in practice, and such impiety in theory, like Nero looking with unpitying eye on the sorrows they have caused, we ate tempted to exclaim, in the words of an amiable French woman, on tracing the ravages of the modern Brennus in Switzerland—" Les mon tagnes furent verdoyantes comme autrffois les prairies florissantes comme jadis, le cur d'homme scul pour quid n'etoit it qu'un desert." The calamities which have sprung from Corn Laws, inequitable to the con- 1 sumer, and useless to the Agriculturist—from a sa crifice of the present generation by a Vansittart, to atone for the folly of a past one under the auspices of a Pitt, have travelled through the labouring classes, and the productive capitalists, and are now settled on the land-owner, and those who could not appre ciate the effects upon others, doomed labour to die down to the level of wages, or visited their convul sive movements Stith the stern compression of mili tary power, are subjected, by the perfect justice of PROVIDENCE, to a more convincing evidence, by its action upon themselves. I hope they have nearly expiated their offence against HEAVEN, by their neg lect of the manufacturing districts, and the time is fast approaching when the Monied Interest will find it right to yield the inequitable increase which the Legislature, with good intentions, and great folly, have ignorantly bestowed upon it, and to lower their rent upon the community from five to four per cent. to obviate the tardy but certain application of the sponge of necessity. I lament the sufferings of the Landlord, of the Merchant, and Of the Manufac turer; but their interests will be protected who hold Boroughs, or thrust themselves on the House through the trafficking privileges of the Citizens of Cornwall. My object is to call the attention of the House to the unrepresented labourer of the British Empire, who has drained his best veins for the House of Hanover, and now, with impaired force, but unshaken forti tude, is working the vessel of the State out of that maelstrom into which a rash and ignorant pilot had steered it. I shall endeavour to prove, not that the poor man has been ill-treated by the Legislature, or that he has been neglected by the Government, but that his interests have been misunderstood, and his condition overlooked, both by one and the other ; and that the indignation which he feels against his wealthy neighbour, and his want of loyalty to the institutions of the country, is misdirected, and in some degree n,isapplied. The inclosure of commons, since the year 1760, has been stated by a judicious and intelligent inquirer into the principles of labour, and of Poor Laws, to amount to 5500, and that the increase of the Poor Rates'appears to have kept pace with the loss of their common-rights--the green mea dows, which our benevolent and wise foi eathers had destined as the life-rent property of successive gene rations of villagers, the solace of their evening homes, and the arena of their infantine gambols, has become the haunt of the pettifogging attorney, or the un sightly villa of some sordid money-lender. The poor man, dependent on his employer, became the me nial of the farmer and tradesman, instead of his in dependent and unshackled domestic. But Mr. Pitt, by a restriction on the issue of metallic curtency, and a long and expensive war, soon rendered the nominal shilling of Great Britain, the real sixpence of barter, and the employer found it much better to give money than subsistence to his work-people.— Unable to maintain his family in the decency of a happier era of his life, the uncomfortable and morti 6ed man sought refuge in the crowded assemblies of, manufacture, where, if his mean appearance was less' noticed, and his humiliation unknown, a less cleanly cottage, and equal wages, were gladly exchanged for those altered scenes, and that humbled position which "degraded his mind and wounded his spirit. But here, alas, he was doomed to meet with new misfortunes; And no sooner had the extravagant system of Mr. Pitt carried taxation to a given point, than artificial labour,evading his burdens, was launched in half-taxed elasticity, to tear away the abundant supply of bread, which loans at home, and exclusive commerce abroad, was beginning to bring within the workman's reach,' as it had already done to the other classes of society.' Again brought back to the penury and privations with which he was before, assailed, he entered into combinations with his fellow-workmen, in imitation of his rich employer ; but his wealthy model :hewed I him that what was lawful to riches was illegal to po-i verty, and the manufacturer showered from his Bo. : rough-throne the scalding leaven of the Combination , Laws on his audacious head. Disgusted with h s rulers, enraged with his employer, his indignant feel ings attack machinery, and, caught in the act, he is immured in a cell, or transported to New South Wales. The term of confinement or banishment or -rives, and his grey hairs are sent.kack to whiten on , the pittance of poor rates, or, as a pivot and automa ton of some smoked and greasy steam-engine, he mendicates the means of life by the degradation of human nature. This I believe to be a faithful picture of the Unrepresented labourer, who will, whilst I have a seat in this House, nes er want a feeble, but, I hope, a sincere advocate; and I ask the man, who has the common courage of his species, if these wrongs might not have tempted him to take up " arms against a sea of troubles, and by opposing end them," as my misguided and suffering countrymen did at Bonny muir ? If any one can doubt that this is the situation of the labourers of this country, let him inspect the Hulks, the Jails, the Bridewells, the Penitentiaries— let him read the Press which writes for the Poor—let him visit the Manufacturing Districts—let hitnexa mine the most religious and loyal part of the artisans d mechanics of the island, and his scepticism will disappear. Crime and disaffection could not grow , as they do, in spite of the exertions of the religious philanthropy of the Public, if some great injustice did not exist in the distribution of the profits of la bour, or in the imposition of the public burdens: the violent language of the Press could not be relished if the people of this enlightened land did not feel them selves deeply injured by the privileged and influential daises of society. The orations of a demagogue, and the inflammatory style of an Editor, are the effects, and not the cause of public dissatisfaction; both are the barometers of the sentiments of their readers, and their interests make them, as much as their specula tive opinions, a faithful index of political feeling.— Having made these teniarks to spew the motives and impressions which have led me to take the Petition of the County of Lanark, I shall proceed to ',cilia out what appears to me to be the nature of Mr. Owen's schemes, although my practical efforts have been and will be directed to another channel, and devoted to reduce taxes, not only to relieve the labour of the country from the fetters of a forty per cent. property tax, but to save it from the undue influence of the Crown, and from misgovernment. Mr. Owen con ceives, that the substitution of the spade for the plough, and a re-union of r oral labour to the task of the artisan and mechanic—with a judicious combi nation of the general stock of industry, and with the savings of fuel, cf the profits of retail and of time in the management of a family, added to a system of education, enforcing the practice of honesty, sobriety, industry, and benevolence, would permit the working classes of society to derive most of the necessaries and a greater share of the happiness of life, and rescue them from the degradation and its conse quences—vice and disloyalty, which now has become their Tot. How far his conception is just, how far his theories might be reducible to practice, it is im possible to say ; but lie undoubtedly has rendered that establishment over which he presides unusually and peculiarly exempt from bad feelings and from profligate lives, without in any way wasting the pro perty over which he is superintendent and joint pro prietor, although restricted in his plan by want of! land, and inconvenienced by a too nunierous popula tion and an imperfect habitation. The tendency of his plan would unquestionably be to increase the consumption of the poor, and consequently to aug ment the value of all articles of home pi oduction— of course, to render taxation less oppressive, and to diminish the expenses of Government, by reducing 'the number of starving and disaffected persons. The Honourable Member concluded by moving—" That an Address be presented to his Majesty, praying that he will be graciously pleased to appoint a Commis sion to be sent to New Lanark, to examine into the condition of the working classes, and to inquire into any further arrangement proposed by Mr. Owen, for the benefit of the labouring classes; and to assure his Majesty that this House will pay the expense of the same." Mr. DAWSON seconded the motion. He regret ted that this motion had not been brought forward at an earlier period of the Session, as an opportunity would then have been afforded by the result of the investigation, of removing the objection of many Hon. Members on this subject.' The time, however, was so far apropos, that the adoption of this motion was sure to be grateful to the suffering nation.— They had got through the principal business of the year; they bad voted the Supplies; examined the Estimates with patience and attention ; and discussed the causes of the distresses of the country. The Supplies were retained nearly at their maximum ; the nation had sunk deeper in its difficulties, and therefore became less able to support its burdens ; but no remedy bad been attempted to be practised —Weary—They bad an Agricultural Report, and he wished he could say that none such had been made ; for, with all due respect for those who had produced it, he could not help regarding it as most inefficient to its purpose—(hear).—After answering all the theories of every speculative political econo mist, it summed up by declaring that the merchant must be content to curtail the extent of his com mercial undertakings, the landlord to receive less rents, and the shopkeeper less custom. This Report had completely disappointed the expectation of the nation—(Hear).—lt was when the country was in this lamentable state—when there was no hope for the labourer, and despair for the landlord, that an Hon. and Learned Gentleman opposite (Mr. Scarlett) brought in a Bill to regulate the administration of reliet to the Poor, which was not only of a most in efficient nature, but calculated to stultify the humane spirit of British legislation—Wear, /uar).—l•rom the state which the country was in, he thought the House was bound to inquire into every plan pre sented to it which held out a promise of relief. The Hon. Member eulogised, in forcible language, the system practised at New Lanark. With regard to those who opposed Mr. Owen's Plan, he would say to the sceptic, that no state of things could be worse, and the prejudiced he would bid look at the progres sive advancement into genetal use of steam-en gines and gas. M. Owen's Plan was at least ap proved by thirty-seven Magistrates, who had peti tioned to that effect. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY did ample justice to the motives of those who camc (Q ward du be ableilnidetorstl the present occasion as the advocates of a s the general ralief of the Poor. H n e t, e , nt p e . rt ai rt i i , nedl l l , 4 l } t:p f : ever, great doubts that they would Riede Parliament to accede to the propositio the Hon. Member (Mr. Maxwell), host e ver ca - t F eating the picture he had siraw the country. It ay:4s a serious question for p ar r,: meet whether they would cause ,to consider t !, % ; selves in the situation of parties b a re s o h m e sible for the effect upon the minds of the coun tryear an opinion expressed by them on the merits of ay a Owen's Plan. The Hon. Member, his motion, invited the House to address the O re " to cause an investigation to be Made of Mr. Ow n .; system of social administration, and to reprice ow l House thereupon. The consequence would he, that the (louse would be called upon to orient a sum of money for a trial of the system. The Honourable Member who had spoken last in so ingeriou, a mat. net; bad,' he thought, treated rather lightly the l a ; boors of one part of the Session; and the way i t which he had treated that part of the subject ough t . in his opinion, so serve as an additional cautio n% the House how they acceded to this motion. ,N O , : withstanding the panegyric bestowed on this Pl at by the Hon. Member, it was likely that the R. spett .of the Commission would be as unsatisfactory as t i t result of the labours cf the Agticultural Co rm . l • a m e , in which he could assure the Hon. Member he 44 spent many a weary morning. The Flom -arable Member (Mr. Dawson) told them that. this R Rep was a complete disappointment to the country, an d it was to avoid the multiplicity of those disap po i nt . ments to the country he now seconded this mock s . He could not consent that the country, after bei ng taught that a system was about to he put in practice which would restore the golden days of Paradise, should be subjected to be told that it had all melted into air, and left, instead of the possession of the rad ity of these bright visions, to be plunged in al t e anguish of disappointment. He could not cot. sent to place Parliament in the ridiculous anemic, of being tricked into the indulgence or the saco. t . on of such expectation, and then to find the bubble burst again, as in the ca-e of the Agricultural Committee—( Hear, hear).—The Honourable Mem. ber (Mr. Maxwell) had indulged himself in drawn/ exaggerated pictures of distress. Parliament was not a proper place for the discussion of such ques. dons as this. All such subjects were sure to men with a due proportion of attention and inquii s is iha country, without being brought to Pasha,' eat. lk would net go into an examination of all the disco. veries in political economy propounded by the Ham, Member who opened the debate. He would rat stop to inquire into the foundation upon which the Honourable Member's position rested, that at chinery was an enemy to capitalists, and that the Revenue sustained a diminution proportioned totbe increase of machinere ; that the spade was betas than the plough ; and that we should never be happy till we were all digging the earth like labourers ins potatoe field ! (A laugii).—They were to have cotta mills; but then a Nlr. Owen must be in the ways take care of their morals. Man, in short, was tote made a complete machine, to the exclusica of aI other machines—(h'ear, car).—Ele protested again[ the House of Commons being made the theatre d discussions on abstruse questions of political econsmy There was a spirit of intelligence now abroad tibia would not fail to appropriate,, as far as it was poo tically available, the discoveries and experience d Mr. Owen. He understood there were instances al• ready of the application of his Plan with success it some parts of the country, where a combination d Parishes had taken pl ice for the purpose of trying the experiment. He did not think it could be brought to bear in one Parish, but in many together it might 1 be useful. But because an Honourable and Learned Member (Mr. Scarlett) had, with great honour to himself, proposed a new system with regard to the' poor, which did not meet with the approbation d the Hononrable Member, the whole country was to be thrown into parallelograms—(A laugh) _—lle thought the Honourable Member, in offering te bring this subject before Parliament in the manna he did, was guilty of injustice towards the Plan it. self, which should have been left te, find its level out of doors—( Hear, hear ).—lf Parliament were to take the matter up, the country would naturally wait, before it took any steps for the exteusion d Mr. Owen's Plan, for the opinion of Parliament with respect to it ; and as it must be some time before its opinions could be formed, all that period would be lost. With respect to Mr. Owen's parallelograms, he could not reconcile his mind to the idea that they would succeed in this country. Were we so par celled out, we should cease to be the country we are—(Hear, hear).—We should be a nation of an. tomatons, only to be governed by a drill serjeant. Such a system would not do for a country like Great Britain—it might be applicable to poor-houses, but not to a nation of freemen, or of moral and in. tellectnal beings—(ilear, hear).—Even if be though otherwise of the Plan, he should protest against fle liamcnt being made a school in which to try all ale :cruse questions relative to scciety. For these tee sons he should vote against the motion. Sir W. DE CR ESPIONY differed most cm" pletcly with the Noble Lord who had just spoken en thinking that the House of Commons was nal proper place for the investigation of a Plan for saw liorating the condition of the P 00.% He strong]] supported the motion, and condemned the satirical tone the Noble Lord had taken with respect to it. Mr. III:ME found himself in the novel shallot of agreeing in every sentiment that had been mod by the Noble Lord (the Marquis of Loadonderrl)' Ile agreed with him, that Mr. Owen's Plan put practice, would be derogatory from the character: Englishmen. He admitted the morality and rer larity with which matters were curled en under ill system; but those were the very things he complaiDel of, thinking that every man, as an Englishman, s!) 0 1 be left to himself. The Honourable Baronet lgr De Crespigny) must be aware, that if a man were" called upon, from the circumstances of his situat es.r to think, he never would think; and thus, if Owen's System produced so much happiness with so _ little care, the adoption of it would make u s a r2 . o _ of beings little removed from brutes, only foal the four corners of a parallelogram, instead or mazes of a forest. The Honourable Member, atiCt O pa w y e in us g e a xp h r ig es lt ic t d rib a u h te op o e f th pr a a t ise th t e o i th io e li m ou o r t . .t a b e l s c °Ai; ~ PARLIfiIiNTA4y PROCEEDINGS. "b... ALS". - HDUSE ()F LORDS. JUNE 26. eNr 4 l-Airerage wr, the Custom Duties Bill, and the • ndling Hospital Bill, were brought up from the oist. Lord DACRE said that, at the reqtest of the Noble lid Learned Lord on the Woolcaek, he should postpone his mot ion for the Committee on - the Bankrupt Laws Amendment Bill, until Friday, on the understanding that the Noble and Learned Lord would bring in a Bill of the same kind next Session of Parliament; and that, between this and Friday, he would have a conversation on the subject with the Hon. Member who had brought forward the Bill in the other House of Parliament. The Irish Coal-yards' Bill, the East India Trade Bill, and the Fur Regulation Bill, were read a third time, and passed. The Earl of DA RN LEY said that, at the particular request of the Noble Earl on the other side of the House ( Liverpool), be should postpone his motion on the Navy till Monday next. lie then moved to discharge until that day the order for sum moping their Lordships.—Agreed to.— Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. 'The Imid Tax CoMmlssioners Names Bill was read a third time anti , passed. The Report of the Husbandry Hones Duties Repeat Bill was tskcn into further consideration, and the Bill ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. The Report of the Sheerness Lands Bill was received, and after a few words from Mr. C4LCRAET and Sir G. CLERK, the Bill was ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. Mr. ABERCROMBIE presented a Petition from the Brewers of Clackmanan, praying the House to take into consi deration in Act passed in last April, relative to the Excise on Beer; and after a few words from the CHANCELLOR of the E;- CH/Q1:161%, it was ordered to be printed. Mr. W. WI LLIA MS presented a Petition from James Hat field, formerly belonging to Ore 15th Dragoce.s, and now eon fined in the criminal wing of Betbiem Hospital, who was tried before Lord Kenyon at Westminster, in the year 1800, for hav ing fired a pistol with an attempt to assassinate his late Majesty, and acquitted on the ground of insanity. The Petitioner com plained of the rigour and harshness of his present confinement, *lda he was sure was more severe than what Government in tended it to be, when they removed him in the year 1816 Irons Newgate to bis present place of captivity. Ile cbmplained also of unnecessary infliction which be was obliged to undergo, on account of the persons with whom he was compelled to associate, and prayed for redress, either by his speedy enlargement, or by such an alteration of his mode of confinement as Might ame liorate his condition. The Honourable Member in presenting the Petition, teinified to the accuracy of the Petitioner's state ment with regard to the severity of his confinement, though he disclaimed Imputing any blame to his Majesty's Ministers. Ile was sure that the removal of this unhappy man from Newgate to the criminal wing of Bethlem Hospital, was done with a hu mane intention, although a mistaken one. He also stated that the Petitioner had served his country at an early period, had been distinguished for bravery, and had actually saved the life of his Royal Highness the Duke of York. But he was afterwards visited by a dreadful malady, and laboured wider the delusion which made him believe that the greatest kindnoss he could du his Sovereign would be to send bins to a better world ; and with that view he attempted to assassinate him. He had, however, been for the last seven or eight years in a complete state of sanity, and though it might not be prudent to enlarge him lest the ma lady should return, yet in the safe-keeping of his person the laws of humanity ought not to be violated.—The Petition was ordered to lie on the table. The Nsvy Property Bill was reported, and ordered to be read a third time tomorrow. The Mohair Bounties Bill was committed, and the Report ordered to be received to-morrow. The Captured Slaves Bill was read a second time, and or-, &gecko be committed on Thursday next. Mr. HOBLIOUSE presented a Petition from Samuel Fletcher, a brewer, in Weltmanster, complaining that he had exported certain quantities of Porter, and had applied to the proper office for the drawback on the same, but without effect. It appearing that the Petition prayed for pecuniary relief, and that the Chan cellor of the Exchequer had no commands relative to it, the Petition -war; withdrawn. The Lagan'apiries Bill was committed, and ordered to be re ported to-rnorruw. The &ock Cancelling Bill was read a second time, and or dered to be committed to-morrow. t". • bi P a