Star. — London, England, 1821-06-30 00:00:00

WIN . • dividuals, who had been oppressed by proiiodings under the Alien Act ; he particularly alluded to the case of Madame Montholon and her child, the latter of whom died, in consequence of not being allowed to land; and concluded by proposing to negative the grant altogether. Mr. HOBHOUSE agreed entirely in what had been said by his Hon. Friend. He was sorry a Ses sion of Parliament should have been suffered to pass without some attempts being made to pt rid of this system, which was productive of an impression so much to our disadvantage abroad, as the Alien Bill was. He would relate only one instance on this subject, which came under his own knowledge. He was at Milan some time since, and, accompanied by another Englishman, went to the Theatre. Whilst there, the hat of an Officer of Grenadiers, who sat before them, impeded their view of the stage. His friend requested the Officer to take of his hat. He was answered with rudeness. An altercation followed, and the Officer beckoned the Englishman out of the Theatre. Every one conjectured that a tencontre was about to take place. How great was their surprise, then, to see the Englishman in a minute handed over to a guard, by whom he was kept in custody till the next morning, and then ordered to quit the Milanese territories immediately. He (Mr. Hobhouse) having some knowledge of the Minister, waited on him, and attempted to intercede for his friend, and represented the hardship of ordering an individual to quit the country thus at a moment's notice, only for desiring a Grenadier Officer to take off his hat. Remon strance was in vain; the reply was—" You have the same power. Lord Castlereagh would order a man out of England for the same thing under the Alien Bill."—( Laughter ).—He assured his Excellency that Lord Castlereagh would do no such thing; but the impression on his mind was strongly fixed, and not to be removed, and his (Mr. Hobhouse's) unfortunate friend was obliged to submit. The Hon. Member concluded his observations by strongly urging the repeal of this measure. Mr. CLIVE, in allusion to the case of Madame Montholon, said, that the medical man who attended Madame Montholon's child, gave it as his opinion, that the disorder with which it was affected was common to all children, upon which removal would not have any effect, and, in fact, the child did not die for two or three months afterwards. Mr. BERN AL argued strongly against the measure. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY could not be lieve the gallant General was serious in his opposi tion to-night to this measure. if the gallant Gene ral really was serious, why had he not proposed the repeal of the Bill in an early part of the Session; and not now come and oppose a grant of money which was to pay the Officers of the Alien-office for their labour for the year? An Honourable Member had inquired whether the Allies had issued any docu ment relative to Turkey ? lie could only say, he had heard of no such document, and he had no dis position, either from ambitious views,or otherwise, to interfere unnecessarily with the affairs of that country. With respect to the Alien Act, he denied that it had ever been abused. Sir J. MACKINTOSH condemned the Alien Act altogether as unconstitutional and impolitic. Mr. G. BENNETT wished to know %hat had been done with respect to a Neapolitan Officer, who had a command in the Neapolitan Army, and escaped on board of a vessel on the approach of the Aus trians? He applied to Sir William A'Court, who advised him to come ashore with his son, aged 18, and that he should be protected. He did so, and he and his son had been thrown into prison. This Of ficer was a member of the illustrious family of Ca raffa. This was the treatment which the King of the Lazzaroni bestowed on his subjects. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, we could not interfere with foreign Governments in their in t.2rnal regulations. If the King of Naples was called the King of the Lazzaroni, he was the delight of that portion of his subjects. He was sure Sir William A'Court would not have lent himself to such a trans action; but he knew nothing of the circumstance. Lord MILTON said he would say nothing of the Government of the King of the Lazzaroni, but that was the worst in the world.. Mr. C. HUTCHINSON would repeat it, that there was a system of tyranny and oppression on the part of Russia, Austria, and Prussia, which we ought to endeavour to counteract. He blamed the conduct of Government in not allowing the Priest, Bonavita, %ho attended on Bonaparte, to land in this country, as hen he came home from age and ill health. The House then divided— For the Resolution - 44 Against it hlsiority - - - - —l7 THE QUERN ' S ABSENCE PROM THE CORONATION. • The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER hav ing moved the Order of the Day for the House re solving itself into a Committee upon the Duke of Cla reace's Grant Bill. Mr. CREEVEY rose to protest against the whole of this Bill—(Hear). —He would leave it to such of his friends as were disposed to give the annuity with out the arrears to the Royal Duke, to state their opi nions in the Committee; for his part, he would not give a shilling; and, therefore, in order to defeat the ends of the Bill, he would move that the House go into a Committee this day six months. His objec tions to this grant were manifold. First, it was not called for at a proper time, not having been asked till the end of the Session ; and secondly, the man ner in which it was called for, was, in his mind, most unconstitutional, and if not against the law, was most certainly against the usage of Parliament—(Hear) This attempt to annex a proceeding to something which took place two Parliaments ago, was highly preposterous, and against all rules of Parliament.— The Duke of Clarence, as coming to this House to ask a money-grant, stood on the same footing as any other.individual; and there was no reason.why the usages of Parliament should be strained in his in stance. The only thing to be said for him was, that if this House was foolish enough to give away the public money, the Crown would sanction the grant. But was this a satisfactory mode of proceeding?— Whir did not the Crown send a Message to the House to that effect? It was a compliment which the House had a right to expect. There ought to have been a Message ; but this House should never be made the instrument of favouritism to any branches of the Royal Family—( Hear, hear).—Ministers, thus pro.- dtal of the public money to one member of the Royal Family, had beets guilty of a breach of faith with another. Had they not promised the Queen that, like others of her station, she should have an outfit, and bad they not broken their words with her? It was the duty of thr House to see that even justice was done to all parties ; for if the Duke of Clarence had a claim upon the House, so had the Queen, they being both branches of the Royal Family. The House should see the promise made the Queen foi -1 filled, before they sanctioned the grant to the Royal Duke—(Hear, hear). —He challenged the Noble Lord to produce an instance of any branch of the Royal Family giving up what had been voted them by this House, but that of the Queen. Her Majesty had, with a magnanimity which did her great honour, re fused to accept more than £35,000 a-year, though £50,000 was offered to her. This was seven years ago, and her Majesty had just as good a right to apply for her arrears, which would amount to nearly £105,000, as the Duke of Clarence had for his. It is true that the Duke of Clarence had refused the sum 0(4'6000 a-year, but he did so from motives very different from those by which her Majesty was ac tuated. He would certainly oppose all favour to one branch of the Royal Family, while another branch was not only neglected but defrauded. It was a little hard that the people should be called upon to make provision for the Duke of Clarence, while her Ma jesty was neglected. In saying this, he did not wish to insinuate that her Majesty asked for anything.— He was not aware that she did. Was it right to call on the people to give this money to the Duke of Cla rence, after having taken a large sum to defray the expenses of the trial of her Majesty—a trial_ to which the people objected—a trial which they considered unjust and iniquitous ?--(hear, hear).—lt was too hard, after that expense, to ask a large sum of money for that Royal Personage, who (he might say it in a Parliamentary manner) had acted so conspicuous a part in that fatal measure, which had so much in jured the character both of the Crown and its ad visers —(Hear, hear). —He wished the House to re collect the word; of a Noble Marquis (the Marquis of Tichfield), when speaking of that trial on a former evening. Those words ought to be engraved in let ters of gold, for the purpose of sheaving the Royal Family how much they degraded and disgraced themselves by such public prosecutions—(Hear). — He (Mr. Creevey) was an eye-witness of what took place on that fatal and most disgraceful vial, and he never should forget the ferocious manner in which the Royal Personage who came now to—(Order, order). The Marquis of LONDONDERRY put it to the Chair, whether the words " ferocious manner" ought to be used in speaking of the Royal Family ?—(Year.) The SPEAKER said, lie was sure the lion. Mem ber would himself see the impropriety of using such expressions. • Mr. CREEVEY said, he spoke of his Royal High ness merely in one capacity—that of a suitor to that House for money. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER sub mine I to the House, that it was out of order to al lude to what was supposed to have passed in another House of Parliament, and to make that the ground of opposition to certain provisions submitted to the consideration of the House of Commons. Mr. CREEVEY contended that the proceedings of the other House w ere public property a great part of them being contained in what were called the Pro tests which were published by certain of their Lord ships. He was, therefore, inclined to think that he had a right to use these documents. But he himself had been present at their proceedings, and he had heard the Royal Duke, acting as a Judge, pronounce " content," accompanied with reasons the most in sulting to one who was, in every respect, entitled to his esteem as his cousin, his sister-in-law, and as a Princess of Brunswick—( Cries of Order).—lt would seem that he was not at liberty to allude to the con duct of the Royal Duke, though he was now a claim ant on the bounty of this House • but he could not conceal that the impression made upon his (Mr. Creevey's) mind by the Royal Duke, would never be forgotten, not having heard of such a thing before in civilised society—( Hear). The SPEAKER said he felt himself again called upon to interfere. He was by no means anxious to trench upon the freedom of debate ; but he would put it to the House whether, if any one commented upon what happened in this House, they would not be in clined to treat it as a breach of their privileges? — (Hear, hear).—That liberty of debate which they exacted for themselves, they should allciat to others. In making these remarks, however, he wished not to be understood as giving any opinion upon the facts alluded to—these facts were before the Public, and the Public would draw their own conclusions from them. His only object in interfering was to secure the privileges of this House, by reminding Hon. Members, that if they claimed exemption born re marks on what they said here, they should, in con sistency, refrain from commenting upon what occur red elsewhere—( Hear, hear). 11Ir. CREEVEY said, that after what had fallen from the Chair, he should not again allude to the subject, either directly or indirectly. He apologized for using objectionable words in the warmth of debate, and declared that he would now dismiss that part of the subject with a single remark—that as the People condemned the proceeding against the Queen, if there was an opportunity of consulting them, or if their sentiments were spoken in this House, they would not vote a single shilling to the man who had been her principal persecutor—(Hear, hear).—ln this view of the subject he would accuse himself of desertion of duty, as one of the People's Representatives, if he voted for this grant—(Hear).—Having then done with the expense of the Queen's trial, he had to state that there was another subject upon which equal dis gust was felt by the People—namely, the Coronation. This idle pageant was condemned in the most unqua lified manner, as an expensive and unnetessary waste of public money—(Hear).—lt might be true that in theory, perhaps, this exhibition might be useful, as being the occasion when, as was said by the Noble Marquis, the King e ntered into a solemn compact with his People ; but it was not considered in that light by the Peoples He asserted that there was no national sympathy in this expensive celebration, and what strongly proved his assertion was the fact, that up to this day, now within three weeks of the Coro nation, every one who met his friend asked; would it really take place? naturally supposing that it ought not at this season of general distress--(Hear, hear) —He observed Gentlemen smile on the other side ; \ -.~ but they alight laug h , still, he. would assure than , the People gave their money with great reluctance, and he believed the absence of the Queen from the ceremony entered in some measure into their feelings. They looked upon the Coronation as a sort of triumph over the Queen, and this, he believed, was the main cause of the People's apathy. He wished to know whether it was intended that her Majesty should assist at the Coronation—he knew no law by which the King could exclude her. He had heard she was not to be present ; though there was no doubt bat she had a right to assist at the Coronation, even as being . a branch of the Royal Family, not to speak of ber rights as Queen—(Hear, hear). —This fact he thought proper to state to the Noble Lord, that he nuht be put an possession of the strong "feelings which prevailed out of doors on this subject. He was sure the Noble Lord's prudence would not permit him to put the King in a situation, which, if her Ma jesty asserted her right on the day in question, must be extremely painful and disagreeable to him— (Hear, hear).—The question respecting the Liturgy had been given up by her Majesty, and it was hoped that her concessions would lead to a restoration of harmony--(Hear).—There was, therefore, no triumph over the King—no countenance for a new slight— and the People were naturally reluctant to give away their money to other branches of the Royal Family, when they knew that the Queen was to be excluded from the Coronation—(Hear). Mr. G. BANKES contended that the introduction of the Queen's name was irrelevant to the question in debate, and that whether her Majesty thought she bad a right to the money she gave up or not, had nothing to do with the question which occupied the attention of the House. The Duke of Clarence, in accepting now what he had given up before, was quite consistent in his conduct, for this reason, that when he gave it up he was about marrying, and it was then uncertain whether the Lady who was to be his wife would consent to live here upon what,- even with this addition, would be still a limited income for a Prince of the Blood. He, therefore, knowing that he should not require so large an establishment on the Continent, had determined to live there ; and it was therefore an act of generosity to forego this sum of money, rather than spend it abroad. In the event, however, it turned out that the Lad was con tent to live in his country, and as it.was only lately she had made up her mind, the claim of the grant bad for that reason been delayed up to this time. Even with this sum the income of the Royal Duke was very limited for a man of his rank, and the sum asked, therefore, was not extravagant. Thinking 'that the Royal Duke ought to be placed in the same, situation as if he had accepted the grant at first, he would vote for the arrears as well as the annuity. Mr. HA RBORD was decidedly against the arrears. With regard to the Queen's arrears, he thought she , had as much right to apply for them as the Duke of Clarence had to apply for his—( Hear, hear). —There would be now £105,000 due to her, if this argument WAS right ; and he did not see how those Gentlemen who supported the arrears to the Royal Duke could, with any consistency, resist her Majesty's claim. For himself, he would vote against such a claim—(Hear) but he could do it with consistency, because he had also voted against the arrears in this case. It was not, however, so much for the amount of the arrears that he quarrelled, but he objected to granting them, as it would be setting a vicious precedent, which might hereafter be made a bad use of—(Hear). Mr. BENNETT said he had opposed this Bill in every stage, and still his opinions of it were un changed. As to the Coronation, there was but one opinion upon it—it was condemned on all hands as an idle and expensive pageant. He also partook of these sentiments; but his dislike to this exhibition did not proceed from feelings of disrespect. He had no objection to see the Monarch enter into a solemn compact with his People, if it answered any pur pose ; but he thought it ill suited with the poverty of the times—(Hcar, hear). It was an unnatural exhi bition of wealth ; and, to use an old proverb, " It was not fit that the country, while it was sick at heart, should look so well in the face I" Oa all sides there was nothing but poverty and distress— (Hear) and under such circumstances, he thought it was al most criminal to throw away £lOO,OOO in an idle and momentary pageant—( Hear).—ln former times, this ceremony was thought, if not necessary to the King's title, that at least it very much strengthened it ; and Charles the Second, after his Coronation, de clared, by Proclamation, that his title to the Crown was much stronger than it read been before. The tenure of Knight-service was also nearly abolished; so that, not being necessary even as an assurance of landed property, it was now become a mere idle chew (Hear,hear.) He (Mr. Bennett) would probably hear of this ceremony, but he most certainly would not be pre sent at it. Whilst it was going on, however, he would be occupied with reflecting on the miseries of thou sands, which the sums lavished that day would so effectually alleviate. As to the Bill before the House he entirely dissented from it. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY did not rise to prolong the irrelevant debate which had sprung up, but to protest against the attempts which he saw again renewed by Gentlemen on the other side to rouse all the angry feelings of the People against a sacred ceremony which was about to be performed (Hear, hear).—lt was quite consistent with the poli tics of those Gentlemen to murmur at an expense in curred in a Constitutional endeavour to support the ancient splendour of the Monarchy, and at the same time call upon the country to embark in hostile inter ference with the great Military Powers on the Conti nent. It Was not true that the Coronation was an idle pageant, it was a solemn compact between the King . and the People; and Ministers would be want ing in their duty if they failed to recommend to his Majesty to carry this solemn celebration intoeffect as soon as possible. But he was not surprised at the endeavours of Gentlemen to raise a prejudice now, when he brought to mind their conduct on a great public occasion last year—the consequences of which were so much aggravated by their endeavours. He saw in their conduct to-night an attempt to revive the same feelings out of doors—feelings which were now nearly extinct, and the operation of which would be a reproach to those who were wicked enough to call them again into action--(Hear, hear). Yet these Gentlemen complaining of the Europe exphise would hurry the country in the inti cause of acts of liberty as hostilitywith h thiy lthe Powe rs of f pretended, but, as he asserted, in the cause of confusion (Hear). MIN.Wip, These were the Men who nuentured at QO O4 being spent for the support of an ancient custom, which was sanctioned by the laws of the country—. (Hear But the Honourable Member would b eano . that in carrying this august ceremonym nne f. feet, there had been no neglect of public economy,... it was not an idle parade, and he (Lord I m a m . Berry) looked at the people of England in a diffe rent light from the Hon. Member. He could not see t h at discontent which the Hon. Member saw. Wh en h e looked abroad, sure he was that discontent would** have prevailed had it not been favoured by theeff ent of Gentlemen within this House--(Hear).-1 1 trig against this system of stimulating discontent that k g rose to protest. He felt for the King and for Mink. ters, and he was convinced now, that had Minis* * abstained from advising his Majesty to proceed yid s this ceremony, their conduct would be coward], lei unconstitutional to the last degree—(Hear)......fr wa a ceremony upon which the laws, religion, a n d nu . toms of the country rested, and there fore ought ax to be delayed one moment unnecessa rily. Mr. HUME, as one of those charged by the Marquis with inflaming the public mind, kitties:M tn to do himself justice. The charge he repelled *it , indignation, and threw it back upon the Nobk L * 4 , who, with his colleagues, had applied the fi re e n . la of inflammation, when they attempted to crush th e Queen of England--(Hear, /sem)--contrary to all *tick, to all law, and to all precedent. Th ey h a applied the firebrand of inflammation, whe n they constituted themselves Judge and Jury, in flagmen violation of the principles and spirit of the Ca nn a tion, to crush a woman whom he would call an I n . nocent woman, and whom even they the rme l,,,, could not deny to be an unprotecteJ (Hear, hear).—lt was under the expectatiou that she would be unprotected, and unable to defend hose , that the Noble Lord and his colleagues had dared', take the course they bad taken, and had expected she would fall !—(Hear, hear)—but, thanks to the DO& spirit of Englishmen—thanks to those feeling:al / la beat high in the hearts of uncorrupted Engiishmt, and which would continue to beat high aftertlx ble Lord should have finished his career, and failel in his efforts (for fail he would)thanks to thatip,n r and those feelings, the Queen of England had me fallen, and they had been disappointed of their ob. ject!—(Hear, hear.)—The Noble Lord and his cot leagues were the cause of the discontent and inflate matron of the country: they were the persons s, had nearly driven the country into a state of intend commotion; and yet they upon his side of the Han were now to be taunted with having excited discos tent!—( Hear, hear.)—This sort of trickery, which tk Noble Lord knew well the use of, would, in amen of little moment, merit only the derision ant con. tempt with which every sound mind and lams judgment must regard it. Such taunts, convenient ' as the Noble Lord might find them, when used a subjects of deep and lasting importance, he (Ms Flume) could not hear without repelling them ad disgust and indignation—(Hear, hear).—it was lel for the Noble Lord to attempt to turn off the nal and unanswerable charges against the Government, by alluding to the motion of his Honourable Frill respecting the State of Europe. That motion ha not been for war, but for preventiniwar—(Ka, hear).—The pacific and salutary intention and ter. ency of it had been at the time explained, and mil not have been mistaken . But it was convenient his too to assume what had been denied, and was sh i. ously unwarranted by the observations or the moil of his Honourable Friend. But it was quite too mud for the Noble Lord to call the Coronation an angel and sacred ceremony. He (Mr. Hume) denied itni it was either august or sacred, or that any ceremc' could be august or sacred that was, like this,lcamial in injustice !—(Cries of Hear.)—lf it was proper tht the King should be crowned, it was proper that tit Queen should have her rights—(Hear, hear). —D was right that the King should be crowned, it vs right that the Queen should •be crowned also. If otherwise, the Coronation, instead of being an asps and sacred solemnity, would be a partial, want*, cruel act of injustice—(Hear, hear).—The Nab Lord and another. Noble Lord good pledged to At both had said in his hearing, that if the Queen shag' be acquitted, she would be entitled to all her rights and privileges as Queen, and to be in every respect so treated—(,Hear, hear).—Yet the Noble Lord had now talked to the House of the august andsaciedso lemnity of a Coronation from which the QueewCa' sort should be excluded; and then did the Noble Lad accuse his (the Opposition) side of the House d*. tempting to disturb the country!—(flear, hear.) —if his Majesty's Ministers would persist in such a cats of persecution—in such flagrant outrages of let, justice, and humanity, cringing when necessary, of insulting when safe—he (Mr. Hume) could tell thew, that they would leave nothing august or sacred it the institutions of the country—(Hear, han)- 01 believed no Administration in this country had git departed so widely from the principles of Christie pity—(Hoar, hear)—or wounded so deeply all feelings and principles that were dearest to the MO of man—(Hear, hear).—Was it net then too tti for those who exerted all their power to prevail, stop, to arrest such wrongs, to be charged by Noble Marquis with disturbing, excitin and i° flaming the country ? He (Mr. Hume) bad earnestly, and in every possible stage, resisted persecution against the Queen, which had more :IP nerally and more justly infla med the country, da l any act since the Revolution. He now gave 2 Pi e ! of advice to the Noble Lord, if the Noble Lard' allow him to take that freedom—to being, o a t nisters, both to the King and to the Queen-(°7j hear)—out of respect not less to the King thaw"' Ridings of the country. Let all their acts MM . wards her Majesty : let them no longer advise 10, slues respecting her that were cruel, tyrannical, 0". oppressive, but let them advise his Majesty tobrild towards an individual whom Gov had placed tweet his especial care and protection !—(Hear, hear). Mr. C. F. PALMER said he did not know whs the cause might be, or whether it was owing personal consideration respecting his Royal .111 ness, but this grant to the Duke of Clarence was r e. grded by every one he saw, as most imprwer' Near). Out of doors he (Mr. Palmer) ofwrofithnipohGliitenmicsstle;elfmb;utenforaofioluqwtuohitfoemthdeih&fieloebunasetdhvecieowk:sveo:sef conversed deprecated and abominated this grant—(tkar , 11c would tell the Noble Lord, too, that who ~~ 7. nu thi for