Star. — London, England, 1817-03-11 00:00:00

tote of the proceedings which he had advised, when t' , e application was made to the Court, which were calculated to give every facility to the obtainment of the liberty of these persons. He was bound to sup. pr,te that. the parties were entitled to redress by re gular action, and could not help chi:ll6llg that there must have been some mistake which had ptuvented them from seeking it in that way. Mr. CROKER bore testimony to the immediate ity.erlerence of the Admiralty, to facilitate the serv. in of the Habeas Corpus. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER admit' d it would have been We duty of the Trea sury to inquire into the transaction ; but he had no tecollection of ever having heatd the names of the 1 attics hetqre that night, cr he would certainly have Ezeude:l to any anlic.uion that had been made to him. He would mike inquiry now, to satisfy hilt:- elf, ,! if legal remedy could be obtained, the parties would soon li.:trn the proper way to proceed f•tr it. Mr. CA LCRAFT dechred that nothing could be mote satkfact , ny than what he hail heard from all the Ge :denten oppoiite, and he would himself join them in making the fullest inquiry. The Petition was orderei to lie on the table. Mr. BENNETT, at the requesst of Mr. Bit , vowrist, postponed his motion, relative to Mr. Herries, the Commi►sary, till Thursday sennight, in order to afford tht latter Gentleman an opportunity of bring ing forward that rcliting to Manufactures and Trade on l'hursday neat. Mr. BROUGHAM asked some questions respect ing the intention of Grow-mm-1a to alter the ditties on the importation of timber, the growth of the Bri tish Colonies. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said . ; that it wAs not likely any alteration would be invade this Session. _ Mr. PONSONLIY wish.d to know whether some eltepti n was gait intended to be made in tavour of Ireland, as it never could have been intended that Ireland should pay a higher duty than England.— The people of Ireland were match poorer than those it England, and there was no article that could so inconveniently bear a high duty, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the duties had barn equalized three years ago; but, in'conseq.tencept complaints that had been made, another change had taken place in the following Ses• iron, that was thought to be more favourable to lieland, and it certainly was intended by Paha anent to be so. NEW SOUTH WALES. • Mr. BENNET r said, he held in his hand a Peti tion from cocain Settlers in Ncw South Wales. He I:4d taken the trouble to ascertain, as far as possible, , who they were, and had found that they were not convicts, bdt petsms who were bona Jie settlers. The petition complained of partiality in the admi riatration of justice, and of unjust and oppressive .conduct on the part of the Gcerernor. Ile , knew :nothing of the facts, and could only take them on die authority of others; and when it was considered flit the seat of complaint was 9,000 milts distant front this country, it would be seen that it was ;input siblillor him Co take any steps on this_yetition in len than a year. Amongst other matters, it com plained thAt the agriculture of the colony Wil in yurea by the great importation of corn allowed from India, winch Ives sold at a lower price than that of • act, o wn growth. They were also not permitted to .-- distil In) Cpirits; 'which prevented theta *overturn• kg their surplus produce to advantage. A prefer r.nce was given to American vessels, which had pri vileges that English vessels *ere denied. The Honourable Gentleman commented on these and • other circumstances detailed in the petition, and in the course of his observations he adverted to the state of the convicts who had served their time out, and who•hid no means of returning to their native coun try. This was more particularly hard with respect to the women, who were Obliged to prostitute their persoarin order to gain a passage home. Lord CASTLEREAGH observed, that as the Honourable Member intended to call the attention of the House to the petittoi, that would be the proper time to enter into a discussion upon it. In the mean time, 'he hoped no unfavourable impression would be imbibed against that distinguished °Meer at the head of the colony ; for it was due to him to say, that he had filled that situation for several years; and be had been sent out when he (Lord Castlereagh) was at the bead of the Colonial Department, from the most sanguine expectation of his being fully -qualified to _r administer the government of that distant colony.— ! He had no possible objection to the petition lying on the Table. - • The petition was then read, and ordered to. . lie on the table. It concluded with praying, that the Colonists might no longer have taxes levied with- Out the consent of-Parliament, and that they might be allowed the full benefit of trial by jury. IRISH BUTTER. Mr. M. FITZGERALD rose to move for ac counts of all Butter exported from Ireland to Fe. reigu Colonies, and also to England, for the last fflur yea's. He would take that opportunity to ask be Chancellor of the Exchequer, whether it was in tended to make any increase in the protecting duties on butter for thole parts of Ireland which were most concerned in it f The Dutch had withdrawn their duty of 7s. per cwt. which was now to be deducted 'from the protecting duty we posss, which made the amount 18s. or IBs. and this wholly defeated the purpose of protection. He wished to ask the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite, whether it was his intention to redeem the pledge which he understood be had given on this subject last Session? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was not prepared to give a decided answer;' but ; at resent he telt no disposition to propose any alteration is the existing duties; because the duty of last year must have caused the effect of regulating the course of trade ; anif one year was hardly sufficient time to enable a just judgment to be formed. lie thought , that the regulation adopted by the Government of the Netherlrnds would prove, that any further aug . meat:doss at duty would affect our trade. Mr. BROUGHAM wished his Honourable Friend SKr him bad stated wl.at course he meant Adopt; • for the present proceedings aight lead to an antici pation of the discussion which would mist out of his motion seat Thursday, on the Manufacturing b i t e -. rests of the country.. He would venture to say, 'b o i l the more the subjf.ct of our commercial embaseass-1 Silents, as wells those of the landed and egriculits ral interests, were inqoired into, the more it would be 'found that we had gone a great deal too far in dirlli aishing the importation of foreign commodities. Mr. Alderman ATKINS spoke in favour of the free ivaportation. We should be met from every port by prohibitory duties, if we continued to increase those which were in force. The Honourable Alder man instanced particul irly tbe 'disadvantage which arose from such prohibithns in the sugar trade. The Motifs was the pat and agreed to. Sir R. FERGUSON presented a petition from the Borough of Arbroath, signed by the Magistrates, most of the respectable inhabitants, and all the ye ters of the place, in all about one thousand eight hundred persons. The petition prayed for a Reforni in Parliament, and on this occasion he begged to notice what had fallen from a Learned Lord on a former evening (the Lord Advocate of Scotland). who had described the people of Scotland to be per fectly satisfied with the manner in v hieh they were represented in Parliament. He (Sir R. Ferguson) was convinced that nine-tenths of the people wished for some reform or other. The argument used in favour of the present system seemed to have been taken from that urged in defence of those most use less offices the Lords of the Admiralty. Of them it was asserted, that they were proper to be kept up, because they had existed ever since the Revolution; and in like manner it was said the people of Scotland ought to be satisfied with the way in which they were represented in Parliament, because no chalge had been made since the union of the two countries. lie, however, did ..ot think it reasonable to es4ect they could be content, sari' there were not more than thre e thousand voters in the nation, and when they could not but know that Cornwall sent as many M.:mints to-that House as were thought adequate to represent all Scotland. Mr. BRAND rose to confirm what had been ad v inced by the gallant General as to the anxiety of the people of Scotland for a Reform in Parliament... Acquainted with their rights under the British Con stitution, they were nut unequal to express that , searrnty which they felt sincerely and patriotically but, at the same time, the petitioners from that part of the kingdom did not forget what was dire to the dighity of that House. From these no alarm could be telt, for those who knew their Tiens is well would be the last to countenance any proceeding which might lead to tumult and disorder. Mr. BOSWELL observed, there was not a single petition from the Landholders of Scotland in favour of Parliamentary Reform. In the counties, he be lieved, there were few freeholders who were not vo ters; and though the roll was small, he believed there were generally as many voters as landholder ' who were freeholders. The petitions sent up on the subject he did not l)old to be of much importance. Many of these did not express the sentiments ofthose frinn whom they were supposed to come— they were sent up to London, like children to the Foundling Hosponl, and left to their tate. From - one little vil lage, which did not contain more than fifty inhabi tants, a delegate had been sent to meet the other delegates, lately assembled hi the Metropolis. Had all parts of Scotland engaged in the cause with the same ardour. the delegates sent to discuss the ques tion of Parliamentary Reform would sot have been fewer than 140,000. Lord A. HAMILTON protested against the as sertion that there were its any county as many Voted as landholders. He could not acquiesce in the opi nion that the people of Scotland were satisfied with the manner in which they were at present represented. The LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND had stated, on a former night, and he would repeat it now, that the people of Scotland, taking those classes of the community who were most capable of forming a judgment on the question, to express the sense of the people, were nine-tenthsof them opposed to any change in the representation of that country in Parliament. He had stated then, that no petition had been received from the Landed Interest, from the Corporate Bodies, or from the Communities of Scotland. He should have considered the sense of the people to have been expressed in Petitions from meetings of the Freeholders, from the Commissioners of Supply. or from the Heriters of any diptrict. That petitions like those which had been brought under- the consideration of the House, did not always speak the sentiments of the people from whom they were sup posed to come, might be seen from the petition pre sented from Kitkaldy, which had not been signed by on e of the constituents of th e ga ll ant G enera l op posite, one and all of whom had subscribed to a -counter-declaration. He had certainly said, that he believed Scotland to be satisfied with h er representa tion an Parliament, the Constitution of which had been settled by a Whig Government at the time of the Union in 1707. This opinion he'still retained. Since the Union, in no instance had the electors been ali. :smashed, but in the counties they had been consi des ably increased. The respectable part of the peo. pie, he believed; would rather have the representation continue in its proem state, than exchange it for the boon of universal suffrage. Mr. DOUGLAS believed muclh apprehension to be entertained in Scotland on the subject of Parlio mentary'Reform. and was satisfied the people wished for no alteration in their Representation. Iffe ex posed the practices of those who seat up Petitions on this subject, and described one to have been meetly framed by certain low idle persons, who had after wards carried it into a private school, and obta!ned the signatures of as many,children as could write their namer. General FERGUSON replied, that the counter declaration signed by his constituents was certainly against universal suffrage and annual parliaments, but in nothing else opposed to Reform ; and he fur ther stated the substance of it to have been most painful to Ministers; as it strongly pressed Upon them the importance of economy. Sir M. W. RIDLEY thought some change in the representation of Scotland ought to be made. Mr. BROUGHAM tbongl.t it was of some im portance that they should know whether these Peti tions really same from the people or Scotland, or whether (as his Learned Friend the Lord Advocate, of Scotland had stated) nine-tenths of the people were against any change being made in the representation. lie thought it rather extraordinary that they should not only tot wish toe a reform, but that they should be anxious not to have one. His Learned Friend had stated, that at the Union that representation had been given to Scotland by a Whig Government which had thought fitted to her situation, and that the number of electors had since increased. The Learned Lord knew, that in the Boroughs the Alec lots could neither be diminished nor increased, and' it there were mare electors in the counties, it ought to be remembered, the population of the country was nearly dotds!e what it woes formerly. He would ask of those who defended the present representation of Se° land, if it were not true that a man might there possess £20,000 a-year, and yet not have rune for A Member of Parliament? and if it sr:l.e not also true, that the electors of a Member of Parliament rroght not have a single acre of land among them ? In li.ngland the copyhelders were denied a vote. This he thought an absordi•.y, hut it was corrected in practice by the number of tune treehol.lers. What would be thought of the representation of Yorkshire if there were but three hundred freeholders to seventy thousand copyholders Lord BINNING believed many of the Petiri ms sent up from Scotland to be o! the same family of I those which had been sent to the manufocturing dis tricts by wicked men who wished to . work on the minds of those who were suffering from the pressure of the times, and who, to eff:ct this, reptesented Par liamentary reform to be the panacea for all the evils of which they had to complain. He was of opinion that the Lord Advocate of 6c0 , 1.1nd was correct in' assuming that 9-tenths of the well-educated people of Scotland were favourable to the present system. He believed, in fact, the cause of Parliamentary Reform tied among these made very little way indeed, and the majority were most completely against the ques tion.—The Petition was then read, and ordered to lie on the table. ----- General FE IiGUSON presented another Petition on the same subject from the Royal Burgh of Brechin. Mr. CURWEN took occasion to observe on the difference between the representation of England and Scotland, that in Yorkshire there were 60,000 free holders, while in all Scotland there were not more than TOW freehold voters. The Petition was ordered to lie on the table. Anil" Immo ATE& On the motion Of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHE QUER, the House resolved itself into a Committee of Supply, to which several Papers were referred. In answer to a question from Mr. BROUGHAM re specting the, Commissariat Accounts, Lord PALMERSTON stated them to be in pro. gress ; but on the present occasion the Resolution he should move would onlyise tantamount to a vote on Account till the subject could begone into more fully. Sir C. MONCK ifiquired if Ministers had intelli gence respecting disturbances in the island of Corfu ? Lord CAS ILEREAGH said, no information on this subject had yet been recelved. Lord PALbtt RSTON whiled not to trespass lon7 on the attention of the House now, as alter Eas , er the 'alien must again come before them, when it would be for them to decide on what should be the amount of the establishments for the re.t of the year. At present he should only move for a vote of the Land Forces, to enable hina to bring in the Mutiny Bill, which, however, he proposed should only take eff ct horn the 24th M March, and expire on the 24th of June. He intended but to propwe certain grants, on which he apprehended there would be little diffe rence of opinion; among which were those for the Hospitals of Chelsea and Kilmainliam, and fcr the AMP/NOM of the Yeornintry end Volunteers. He' might, however, be alloWed to stets to the Commit tee the general bearing of -the estimate that might be raised on these Estimates, and shew the difference between the charges and the numbers of the last and present year. The charge, as compered with that of last year, - was less by the suns of £2,163,000. The numbers voted last year were, including officers and odn-commissioned officers, 196,000, including thirty thousand which were to be paid off in the course of the year. The number to be called for this year wasl 141,000 men. Here, ,it would be seen, was a diffe rence of 55,000 men. From these deducting the fo reign corps, there would remain a difference, officers in,cluded, of 39,942; and from these deducting the officers and non•commissioned officers, and taking merely rank and file, it would be found there was a reduction in numbers of 26,176 men. In addition to these, however, io consequence of the atr.ingeinetiis entered into with the Allies, a further portion of our contingent of the Army of Observation in Fiance was to be withdrawn. to the amount of 4ROO men. These, added to the 26,176, gave a total of 30,376. This was the reduction in rank and tile made in our army serving in England and France. He then I lmoved his first Resolution. Mr. CALCRAFT approved of the mode in which the Noble Lord had brought the Estimates forward. Till further information was before the House, he did not propose to enter into the details, but he wished to know if the present votes were to be conclusive a. to numbers ? Lord PALM ERSTON.—Up to the 24th of June. Mr. CALCRAFT was glad to hear this stated, and to find the subject would be open for lut tiler discussion. Mr. CI.LWEN hoped the present enormous mili tary estabitabment would be reduced, as he comi di red all the retrenchments that had yet been niach: to be quite inadequate to die circumstances of the cc-ll:Any. The following grants were then voted t To tiefke t y the charge of the Land Forces of Great Britain, es cepting those serving in France and in the EAU 111- dies, £237,600; to defray the charge of Land Fi,:ces for Ireland, £4.38,000. Lord PALMERSTON, in moving a Ga:nt to provide for the allowances of the Yeomanry, said, it had been the intention of Government in the lisp year to reduce the allowances from 4E4 , to elt2 per man. This plan, howevar, had only been carried into cif ci in the last half year, and the allowances had tilt le:- fore been at the rate of £3 per man for the year.— Oa giving the subject further consideration, Goren:- meet had been of opinion, that to give the Yeomanry that degree of efficiency which was necessary in the present state of the country, it was desirable to con tinue the alloop.nces.at the last-mentioned rate, and the estimates had been framed accordingly. Thu. force had never been objected to, and it any com plaints could have been urged against it hesetolore, their conduct during the last threemonths most have Aer them at rest. Th•y had been most active in pre serving the peace—had ever been vady to obey die call of the Magistrates, and had deserved the thanks of the country. he should, thcrefoat, propose a Vote to cover their allowances for dare, fro gas, cu:ated at the rate of tiller r unds per man, acid a • a vote of £6OOO to provide t or these lunteer on any occasion to go on psr"anent duty. Sir J. C. HIPPISLEY bare testimimy to the gr. • t services of the Yeomanry, which he had had two o r , poriunititis of witnessing within the last six weetts. H e hoped, %Ten the Secretary of Kyr came tot ear of all their services in vary us parts i•f th e conittry, that he Mould propose that their allowances strong be raised to four p :tinds p-r rutin. Lord CA S f LEREAG H said, the H onoura bl e Bar,,net had borne very l:nnottrable testimonx merits of the Ytoman, y, but dortig this he had (..-1 furnished one sample of general aphlause, which their conduct alwa-is ottained whenever the p eace „I a e country was in danger; but for their tliciynt st :vice' v itid not feel themselves jit , titim i n cr , rn _ tog to Parliament with estimates on so sus...! a . c ar e as those submitted to the House, and thereiore is country really owed to thins those ecoltoniscal rangements which the Government had been etribltd to make. With respect to their allowsnces, he (loot:- ed not the liherality of Pathan:en' %mad do 'may thing that was necessary to encourage ma d :wee 9i:us in a proper oat? of ainctency ; but as they weir nut now obliged to ithierve exactly the same discipree as in time of war, it had 1 .1-,r, thought £3 per mats might ha su:ricient for Eh': service. Government, however, felt all the importariceof this tnr ce , an d were sensilile it could nit h e too highly valued. Sir J. C. HIPPISLEX again expressed a wish that the allowances of the Icom.i.nry Cavalry raiskt be raised. .- • Mr. CURWEN thought the efficiency if •se Yea. manry would not be increased by rais•ii;; tt.t it al. lowances, as they were animated by a fegher motive than the hope of pay. Hp hoped the Noble Lord would look to this force as that which w lull futuish a cheap defence to the country. Mr. COUR TNE Y spoke in praise of the Yeomanry. Mr. L. KECK, connected as he had ben tLe Yeomanry for the last twenty years, was well able to Appreciate the expense at which it might Le kept up. He was of opinion that tour pine:as i;:r man v...bant more than was sufficient ; three pounds he thought too little, and if only two ponnds were allowed, he 'was positive the cßicers would out be able to keep the ye:ill - leery regetlw. Mr. SHIPMAN Wei:, of opinias th !re were ct!er corps, wh.se a be:ances it &night ht mole necessary to augmeot, Ilion it w is those of th.: y—ananry. Mr. W. WYNNE contelided, that the yeomanly ought not to be expected to m sustain themselves. He wished their allowance fixed at Al per man. Mr. CALCItAFT hoped, before a prmatir t v( to was come to on this subject, that the N:•ble Lied would consider of the propriety of milkier, '.uch an arrangement as would satisfy those a ho gave up their time for the service of the century. He was 'lad to hear those eulogiums on the yeomanry, as be thought they Would hereafter furnish him with co answerab!e arguments in favour of a further reduc tion of the army. ' Mr. BA RING cloeibted if the yeomanry wou:d be glad? noire etliei.qtt by ir. , :real..ing their allowaricet. In PAT there were forty thonsand National Guards, well clo:hed, and in every reTect a ttsi.st body at men. who d... 1 wit cast the c•Juniry sixtieme;:, And wh , n,tt pride i. wai to rece.ce no Mr. RODINSiON , aid the allewanc?s acre itrit. and could not be eonsidere,l as lny th,eg Ike milikerittion for the services of the Ye...manly. S. : an imperfect reward could not degrade them, :;! itwas too much to expect that farmers ane..!.l: keepers should bear all the expense ut their etitni,- ments themselves. A motion for a grant of £37,000 for defraying the expenses of the Volunteers was then agreed to; as was a grant of W 15,800 for Ireland for to t e same service. The following sums were voted : To Betray the Charges of Pensioners is Chelsea Hospital To ditto to Kiltuaii,hant - - To ditto of Out Pensioners of Chelsea flosEital :91.014 to ditto of KLassitdiam - • - - The 'CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, tit House would secolltet, that r2544"1.W.MA of francs bad been appropriated by the Ati:cs to the Briiisle and Prussian armies, for their services at Wr• terloo, over anJ above their respective shares sf corstrihotieass esected from France. Seine ties had inter; el,,ed, as this sum e.:tati Ii 't conveniently urnisbed by the time at wh i ch it w..; desirabla that it should' be dist:grated, a hope h td beer, field out that . 14 grant in advance should be pl.:. posed to Parliament. The regularity v:idi %vivid tire Freed* Government had made its payments a-I that a considerable past of the awn had bera laid b), and die s u m o f ti:Z/15,04 . 0 sterling had already expended. The advance of £111,06)0,000 sc-is however necessary, for :he reasons he bad fiveer but he had the happines to say, the British ' Chest aas SC) furnished, tiost on further pre e ,si , .o would he r.cpiired for the troops in France be tevrci. this :ind the eihd of the year. The sum :drat roe ! would be repaid in that time, it there occurred failure In payment of the French contebutionr, was nut at ali to be elpec ted. from the punceuaii r hitherto observed ; more especially as the wit:st!'tttt. ing id 3i1,000 troops howl the Army Cr.s?..vetite., u.eld so greatly diminish the amount of t: e ineuts Fiance would have to make. Linder d,Lis.: ciicumst owes, the grant he should propose meat lie coih•icle reel AS a mere temporary grant. fie t. , mom, tor a grant of 5e1,000,000 to be advance,: L., the Al toies who !ought at Waterloo. In answer to a question from Mr. Comers, CHANCELLOR tf the EXCHEQUER said, ;be wit, le es pmse of our army in France was to be ihet by ire. a,lorlas.ces and contributiens furnished by the It( 'AC!. Government. Air. 13ARING understood the Right Pol- C't• - tkßiall to Intani. that Irg Op7ASC6 cot t.rr .y r - •) partly true out 01 the stisid7. He tt , ,:tc say a few words or. clic sub;rier of Lin oriirat.oli es.ihr which he had been connected, and which lad c t• tainly been noticed swire out ef that House than In it. What had been sail would have tittle tif..et en :aim as lie aas rather in the habit of erruttlt 'us own understanding to deteririne what it wa4 t.ii lay to do, than of regulating his conduct by the 1 ,7 40" dices of •others. • In the present inaance there bat been much misapprehension as tr the ettent to W. i3: l he had been engaged in the tranaction elbiele4 !0 . • He bad unquestionably put himself forwarel other individuals (Centl;:i:en of Holland, Kt'*