Star. — London, England, 1817-04-01 00:00:00

- - calamities, and had taken some measures to soften and reduce them—(Near, hear). He hoped that the Administration would not satisfy themselves with merely passing Bills to coerce the people, who were writhing in miseries, and tormented by their wants into acts of violence and rebellions relief must be afforded, and the necessity was too urgent to admit of further delay—(Hear, hear). He expected some considerable good would be effected by the Commit. tee which was now sitting . on the finanees of the country. He expected the ir labours would be most salutary in their effects, affording relief to an extent which would be felt as an earnest of the intention of Ministers to make every personal concession to alle viate the public sufferings—(Hear, hear). He would again repeat, that he should expect from his Majesty's Ministers a speedy, present, and effectual alleviation of the national distress. A complete abolition of every species of suffering cannot be rationally hoped for at once, but every means should be taken for ac complishing that end. The eyes of the country. Sir, t directed to us with an indescribable anxiety for what we shall do ;_may I hope they do not look to ns in vain—( Hear, hear)? After expressing his sin cere regret at the much-lamented indisposition of the Speaker, the Right Hon. Gentleman trusted the recess would be much improved by Ministers, and he could have wished, for the sake of the Speakees ill-health and the opportunity which Ministers would have had for examining into the resources of the country, that the adjournment had been longer. Mr. CANNlNG.—Ministers, he could assure the House, were disposed as much as any class of men could be to attend to and relieve the distresses of the country. At the same time, he thought the Right Honourable Gentleman who had just addressed the House, had excited the hopes of the country ton much by the delusive prospect that during , the recess Ministers could accomplish the complete removal of public calamity. If the Right Honourable Gentle man meant really what he said, then he had imposed a very hard task on Ministers. On the part of Go vernment, he was at liberty to say, no exertions had been' *wanting to ameliorate the condition of the country, and he hoped they might be able to give at least a partial relief. Besides, such high expectations as the Right Honourable Gentleman held out could only lead to disturbance, instead of preventing it. High hopes often ended in complete delusions, and it was therefore belt r to be moderate. Mr. PONSONBY. — " Sir, I have been not by any means understood by the Right Honourable Gentle man who has just spoken. Sir, you and all who heard me must know, that 1 did not in the slightest degree intimate that it was possible for Ministers at once to remove the causes of the public calamity; and I must say, Sir, that no one step has yet been taken by Ministers for the accomplishment of that great object (Hear, hear. hear) The Ministers have coerced, but not relieved the prople"—(,Hear, hear. hear.) • Mr. BROUGHAM—On an occasion like the pre sent, he should have been the last to presume to ad dress Vie House, or to detain them one moment, had it not been for the few words delivered by the Right Hon. Gentleman on the other side. That Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Canning) had imputed mo tives and put words in the mouth of his Right' Hon. Friend (Mr. Ponsonby), for which there was , no foundation in truth. Never had it.,. been within the walls of Parliament a speech more moderate in its tore, more conciliating in its nature, and mote cal culated to.do good, than the speech which his much arid justly respected Friend (Mr. Ponsonby) had de livered. He (Mr. Brough.m) was only sorry that* his Friend had been too sanguine in his expectations of what Ministers would do, as he had not the slightest hope of what they would do, when he remembered the manner in which the Finance Committee had been appointed. The origin of tharCommittee was too well known to be ever forgotten by the country.. To what was the appointment of this Committee owing ? Was it to any anxiety on the part of Ministers to alle viate, or even to really consider the distresses of the country ? Alas! the painful experience of every one in the country taught them the contrary—(Hear, hear).—He remembered well the cause of its being appointed. That cause was the wish expressed by bis Right Honourable Friend (Mr. Ponsonby) that a Noble Friend of his would revive his motion last year respecting the State of the Nation. This wish had extorted from Ministers the appointment of this Committee, and but for this wish it never had been appointed—( Loud cheering front She Oftpotition Benches). Here he could not avoid taking notice of one clause which Ministers, in their immoderate and unprece dented hurry for Legislation, had procured to be in serted in the Bill, which had this day received the Royal Assent. The clause he alluded to was the one respecting the meetings to be held in Palace-yard by the Inhabitants and Electors of Westminster. That a regulation was necessary to prevent seditious and unconstitutional meetings, he was persuaded there was not one among them would deny—(Heer, hear). The Meetings at Westminster (he meant in Palace yard) had been charged with being,disoederly. and they were therefore now to be prevented. The wis dom, however, of those Legislators who had enacted this clause, would be found to be perfect folly, and Indeed he could aunre the House there was every probability of a Meeting being again held in Palace yard before the Houses of Parliament met after the adjournmeot..- (Hear, hear.) He would not, how ever, be surprised if such a Meeting should be stig. nsatised as acting in contempt of, and disobedience to the !awl; of Parliament, and loaded with all the epithets which Meetings friendly to the cause of the people were. But however numerous such a Meeting might be (and it was not for him to say that it woulsk be well or ill attended), he must say that it mists', in perfect-consistency 'with the clause, severe as it was, Which had just been enacted, be held—(Hear, leer. ) The Bill, be it remembered, had been hurried throng the Hotise in a manner, to say the least df it, most uoprecedented in either House of Parliament, yet not withstanding the wisdomul those who framed the clause, there were several obvious flaws in this very 8i11... In the clause which had been passed it was declared, 46 that it shall not be lawlul for any person or persons to convene or call together; or give any notice for convening or calling together, any meeting of per. sons consisting of mere than filty, &c. for the pur. pose or on the pretext of considering of or preparing any petition, complaint, remonstrance, declaration, or. other address to the King, or to his Royal High ness the Prince Regent, 'or to both or eitheef of the, Houses of Parliament. for alteration of matters in Church or State." Thi s umiak mighty plausible, and might, to many who did not consider the sub ject, appear a very formidable barrier in the why of these meetings, but in fact it was none at all; for in the first place he begged to say e that this clause did not prevent the people of Westminster meeting on any day they chose, for the purpose of petitioning his Royal Highness the Prince Regent for a removal of Ministers--(Leted cheerio: freas the Opposition benches) To be sure, the clause said, that no meeting should be held, Ike. for addressing his Royal Highness the Prince Regent foe an alteration of matters in Church and State; but he toofessed he had yet to learn what connection there was between Ministers and the mat ters of Church and State—(Loacheffistg.)—Ministers , were, to be sure, in a certain sense, belonging to pie State : but would any man say they were so far iden tified with the State as to become part of it ?—Who. ever the individuals might be whom the existing Ruler of the Country might select for his Ministers, it was still evident to every man of common sense, that they by no means were o the State." It followed therefore. of course, that the meetings could be held in opposition to this clause. but not in violation of it. Another thing well worthy of notice was, that this clause prevented such Meetings from being held on either of the days on which Parliament or the Courts in Westminster Hall met. To-morrow, therefore, these Meetings might be held, for to-morrow neither Parliameat nor the Courts of Law meet, and what was to hinder them ? A third remark on this singu lar clause would, be was confident, shew the House its grass absurdity. It eracted, that no such Meet ings were to be held within the distance aif one mile *4 from the gate" of Westminster Hall. Let the House mark the expression—" from the gate of Westmin ster Hall." This Was really very good, but were its provisions duly considered ? It was very true they could not meet within a mile from the gate of the Hall, but where was the law prohibiting them from meeting within the Hall ? (Load cries of Hear, hear.) The Houses of Parliament had agreed to debar them from meeting a mile distant from the gate of the Hall, let in defiance of this mile, the Electors could meet within half a pistol shot of the doors of both Houses of Parliament. (Hear, hear.) Such were the absurdities of one of the most astonishing Acts which had ever received the sanction , of a British Le gislature. Such was the wisdom displayed in this most extraordinary and unparalleled Act. (Cheers.) While lie, in the discharge of his duty to the public. brought these gross absurdities into notice. merely for the purpose of 'hewing the folly of the Act being so hurriedly passed through the House, he trusted he should not be the means of Ministers adopting any new measdres on the subject. Enough, yea infi nitely more than enough, bad been done by Mini. sters to direct the attention of Parliament and the country from the long, the ardently desired measures of economy and reform. (Cries of Hear, hear, hear.) Yes, he repeated, no exertions had been wanting to divert the attention of the country from those much looked for retrenchments, which we had been taught "to expect. He, in the name of his suffering country. implored and intreated the House no longer to ai:ow such efforts of Ministers to engage them. He im plored them to remember the duty they owed to them selves, their country, and to justice itself. Much had our country borne, many were the sacrifices she . had made in the cause of freedom, and surely pain. NI was the thought that such sacrifices were to be rewarded by her being stripped of every thing like liberty, and by no gumption being paid to her com plaints—(Neer, hear).—During the short recess, he begged most earnestly to impress on Ministers one consideration, namely, the absolute necessity of taking no measures whatever with respect to Spanish Ame rica. Freedom, sacred freedom, was the birth-right of man, and to rob him of that right was to rob him of hit all ! He trusted that his Majesty's Ministers would not interfere even in what was called a media tion between Spain and Spanish America, but pre serve that neutrality which became British Legisla tors. The Learned Gentleman concluded an ani mated speech, by imploring Ministers to remember what they owed to themselves and their country, and not to amuse by false or delusive hopes—(Losid cheer ing front the Opposition Benches). Mr. BATHURST argued, that it was impossible for Ministers to be more anxious than they had been for the public welfare. He admitted that every faci lity had been given by Ministers to the inhabitants of Westminster meeting, and these opportunities of meeting bad not been kept secret. The malignancy of individuals had induced Government to resort to those measures they had adopted, and he trusted Government would be believed when they asserted that it was with great pain they were forced to exercise such powers as the Hone had committed to them. Mr. CURWEN—The speech delivered by his Right Honourable Friend (Mr.'Pensonby) bad been perhaps one of the most moderate in its tt aver, spirit and tendency, ever delivered in Parliament. The House was now to adjourn for the short period of `two weal% and he trusted the Members would part in peace. Much, infinitely much, depended on the character of the House, and the opinion in which it was held by the Public. Every man who loved his country, every man who saw the state in. which that country was placed. was aware of the indispensible necessity toe Retrenchment and Reform. The loss the country had sustained by jobs, pensions, QQ and sinecures, was great; but the loss it should sus tain in public opinion would be infinitely more, were it to thew itself indifferent to public feelings. - Mr. PONSONBY said, he should treat with the contempt they deserved, those assertions respeetieg his wishing to excite disturbance, by exciting too great hopes. Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, from the system which bad so long been followed by Ministers, it was impossible to hope bad any real intentions of re lieving the country . The Right Honourablersentle man (Mr. Canning) had charged his much-r es p ecte d Friend (Mr. Ponsonby) with exciting hopes which would never be realised. Such a design had never entered into the mind of his Friend; and he could say, that be was firmly persuaded little was to be hoped for from that Committee appointed by Minis ' ter& One great,step to afford relief, was certainly doing every thing that could be done to keep up the spirits of the people, and to prevent them from fall ing into despondency. This certainly was the best means of doing them good. But while be wished' most anxiously, as indeed every true subject of his. country must do, to repenas any and every appear ance of improper conduct, .be could not help saying, that if ever in the history of Parliament there was a Session wherein the people had condocted themselves with'more propriety than another, it was in the pre. sent—(Near, hear.) And be w ould ask, how had this been shewn ? They had sheers how much they loved and valued the British Constitution by their ap peals to both Houses of Parliament for redress of wrongs. Promises might be made by Administra tions, and coercive measures might be used, but this would not, because it could not, repress effectually the tone of public feeling— (Hear, hear, hear.) Let the House shew the people that it felt fee and would relieve their sufferings, and then good might be ex pected, but till this was done hope was exercised in vain. He was glad to see the glorious sacrifice which a Noble Marquis (Camden) had made for his coun try, and he could only sincerely lament that the ex ample bad not been followed by others. He lamen ted the delusive hopes held out to the country by Mi nisters, and could only say, that public expectation was trifled with in vain, unless other measures were adopted—(Hear, hear.) EXTENT& Sir M. W. RIDLEY wished to ask when the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) would take any means to prevent the evil or correct it, of extents in aid ? and he would ask another Honourable Gentleman (the Solicitor- General) whether it was true that the Chester Assizes had been postponed tor ten days, in consequence of the Chief Justice being specially retained ? The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said, he was not ' aware of such being the case, and indeed he was to tally ignorant on the subject, but he did nut believe ' nor think the story was Idunded in truth. He was perfectly unacquainted with the appointments of the Honourable and Learned Gentleman who presided at Chester, and the places adjacent, and in consequence of this, he could not say one word on the subject. Sir M. RIDLEY—The Honourable Gentleman moved Inc leave of absence to the Attorney-General, who is Chief Justice of Chester. The SOL I C ITO R. GE N E RA L said, he believed the Justices of that district were on their way to the places where they had to preside. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the consideration of the Events in Aid wits postponed till the return of the Lord Chief Baron from the Cireuit, and also in consequence of the ill ness of another Judge. MARY-LA-RONNR CHURCH. Mr. BENNET wished to know, it it was true that Ministers had been in treaty with the Duke of Port land for the purchase of the advowson of the new Mary-la-bonne Church, near the Regent's Park. It was a subject of some public importance, on account of the patronage which it would throw into the bands of Government, as the rectory was worth £4OOO a year, and - the offices of clerk and sexton were esti mated at stlooo a.year each, the duties of which were performed by deputy. He should be glad, ton, if the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Curwen), who had taken a good deal of the business of the pubic distresres out of the bands of his Learned Friend ( Mr. ffrough..m). would give them some idea, before they separated, of the kind cf proposal which he should submit with respect to the amendment of the Poor ,La ws. Mr. BROUGHAM said, he willingly gave up the task to the Honourable Gentleman, because hebelieved that it would be much better performed by him. Mr. CIJRWEN, in answer to the question of the Honourable Gentleman, replied, that it was his in tention to propose that personal property and the pub lic funds should he subjected to the Poor Rates. Mr. CALCRAFT would not at present say much respecting the proceedings of the Finance Commit ye, but he was folly aware of the folly that the coun try would be guilty of, in expecting too much from this Committee. A Right Honourable Gentleman opposite (Mr. Canning) had talked of the anxiety to do as much as possible for the public. In reply, be (Mr. Ca'craft) must say that he was a Member, and to be sure only a young Member of that Committee; but he considered that not one single thing had been ;lone by the Comrgittee to please the country. Mi nisters professed anxiety to relieve the country. This was very well, but did the House remember how they had shown the reality of their professions ? These was a recent instance of this in the motion brought before the House by his Honourable and Learned Friend (Mr. Brougham), which motion embraced the various branches of the public distress, and was prefaced by a speech as luminous in its de tails as it was convincing in its arguments; and yet it had met with a direct repulse and a negative from the President of the Board of Trade. Where, in fact, was theie a proof of the slightest intention on the part of Ministers to attend to the distresses of the countryq The Prince had from the Throne recom mended the House to consider the subject of Finance and Expenditure, but every man knew this had in not one instance been attended to—(Zleor, hear).—He saint again repeat, that since he had the honour of being In the Committee not a single measure had been taken for the alleviation of the public distress, for on the contrary nothing bad been done to soothe the people. It was important this should be known, and be was sorry to say, an going down to the country, he had no consolation to give his constituents (Hoer, hear, hear). Lord BINNING said, every thing had been done that could be done by the Committee. They had not forgotten their duty, but, on the contrary, had given it every attention they possibly could. A s y et the question was under the deliberation of the Com mittee, and it was rash to judge before they had finally settled. The Committee bad made already two Reports. Mr. S. BOURNE defended the Committee. Mr. F. LEWIS said, the Finance Committee had been most diligear, and the plan on which they had proceeded was much better than to look slightly over the whole range of the questibn of income and expen diture, and Report generally upon all the topics at once. He did not wish it to go forth to the people, however, that these Committees would be able to re move every grievance, because he knew there were evils beyond the power of the Poor Laws, however revised, to remedy for a long time. Mr. CALC RAFT said, all be had heard did not convince him he was wrong, and he must again re peat, that not one single effectual measure bad been taken by the Committee fur real practical Ecopoitiy• He was bound to say so in justice to himstlf Member, and to the country in general. Hope js good, but 'a hope deferred maketh the heart • ck " The House then agreed to the queßinti of , Irn . went till this day fortnight (the 14th of April). The CF,ANCELLOR of the EXCHLQOI.II brought in a Bill for amending and akerlsig the F.x_ eise Duties on Rock Salt, which was read a first .raw, and ordered for a second reading en Friday fortitiV: Adjourned till Monday, the l nth of April. THE EvENING LONDON. TUESDAY, APRIL 1, 1817. PRICE OF STOCKY TIM DAY A I' TWELVE O'CLOCK: Reduced .hut—Cow. money, 7214—f0r Ace. 72i 4 per Cent. ,hut--S per Cent. Navy, 1001 Exchequer Bills 44. to 141. pr.—lndia Bong SS pr. In the House of Commons, latt night, Mr. AxGri.o TAYLOR brought forward his long-promised Bill !or Paving the Streets of the Metropolis. Mr. PONSONBY gave notice, for his friends Sir U. PARNELL and MT. GRATTAN, the. they wnuld bring the question of C.itholic Emancipation once nure before the House, about the 20th instant. Mr. CURIUM stated it to be part of hic plat t:r ameliorating the Poor Laws, to make all per property, including the Public Funds, to t 3. Rates. Nothing can be clearer than that pr:, perty, as well as much personal, is 1::)•: nttej, ;, 0: a place to be dwelt in, but strictly :-rope•c!-. Cairn is rated at a value of several honctol own': a-year, though the house upon it would not l ut more than twenty if it were in a town, and could r.”. be let at alt, except for the cake of the 1311,1. C.ns— and Docks are also liable to the R4ICS, though, by affording some constant employment to the Po r, ths, tend to lessen their amount. Why should nut tn, n upon every sort of security be equally subject to dens ' The proceedings of the disaffected at Maneheste7, and the prompt measures by which their machinations have been defeated, have excited every where the most lively interest. Its another column we h.z.v! given a full detail of the circumstances that bay! transpired, and of the vnyintis statements that been received respecting these movements. In the nature of things, it is difficult, in such cases, to ascertain the precise truth. Where aec►et nations are in operation, calculated to disturb the public peace, and these are defeated only by the viii. lance of the Magistrates, it must ever be impossiLle to determine what the consequences might have been, had a watchful vigilance not operated to prevent :fie execution of the project. In such cases men may be brought to trial, and may be acquitted, merely because, happily for them, their hands were tied up before they had time to strike the meditated blow. On the present occasion it ap pears, that eleven of the people apprehended were actually assembled in deliberation in a small public. house at the time of their arrest, and seven others in a cellar. It is impossible to justify secret meetings for political objects, at a period when the Legislature has declared them illegal, on any ground whatever; and the presumption, prima fads, must be, that the object of the meeting was dangerous to the public peace. That the Magistrates had information on which some reliance might be placed, is proved by the fact of their proceeding to the very spot at the very hour or meeting, to secure their persons ; and this circumstance fttruishes strong presumptive evi dence that their information respecting the objects of the conspirators, deserved the utmost attention. If but a tenth—a hundredth part, of the designs imputed to these men be true, what blame would have attached to the Magistrates had they been lax in their endeavours to prevent the mischief ? What would lamentations have availed after conflagration, deAstation, and murder ? Manchester, it is said, was to have been attacked on Sunday—the clay after that en which the conspirators were apprehended— the factories in the outskirts were to have been set un fire, and, in the confusion expected to be thus pro duoed, the Banks, the prisons, and the barracks, to have been attacked. Tb reason about the folly of their expecting to be able to accomplish such projects would be tidicvlous. The attempt might have been made, and whatever its results might have been, the consequences would have been dreadful—much property would have been destroyed, and not a small number of people mirl,L have lost their lives. It is extremely probable that some of the parties • lass detailed may have been exaggerated by tl,e fear: of the writers ; but that circumstance detracts nothing from the praise due to the Magistrate- ler the prompt measures by which the plans of the Co , -, spirators, whatever they were, have been frustrate'. It may be very true that they did not intend a tecol part of the enormities that have been reported; brt wheat popular tumults are contemplated, or 0r.: ,- ; comtnence, who can tell to what they may lead i` not tisneously prevented or instantly suppressed ? The riots of the year 1'?80 were commenced by less t' thirty boys and blackguards, but they nearly laid the British Metropolis in ashes before they were supre , se 2 That the accounts should have been a little ctizt . : ed by the fears of the writers is nit surpri,ing ; so far as concerns ramifications of a plot r hick %vs, to have broken out at other places, as Nottirgliarzi Derby, Birmingham, and other large towns, ec statements have been proved incorrect by tl.e that is these places the hots: fiaed on ha: pa::,:d CSC