Star. — London, England, 1822-02-06 00:00:00

any of their Loralships, who might ha p pen to be t h er e at the time, that never was there any rece p tion so ardently loyal, so truly affectionate, as that which his Majesty met with from his Irish subjects. The scene was cheeripg to ever, man who wished well to the best interests of the Empire, and it was needless for him-to say how closely connected the best interests of this country were with those of:lreland. His Ma jesty's visit tended greatly to remove the long stand ing distention's that-existed in Ireland; and the part ing advice of his Majesty, conveyed in a letter writ ten by Lord Sidmouth, had produced an effect which ;no . time would be able to do away. He now came to consider that part of his Majesty's' speech which adverted to the outrages which unhappily prevailed in that country. The primary cause of them was to be found in a non-resident Gentry—in absentee landlords. lie would entreat—nay, he would con jure any of their Lordships who possessed property in Ireland, not to turn his back upon a country from which he derived such advantages, nor to shew him self indifferent to its present convulsed state—(Hear). Let them show that they were willing to rescue a coon- . ' tr y from crime and anarchy to which they owe so much. The general state of Ireland would soon come tinder their Lordships' consideration, and he doubted not but that they would find it necessary to arm the Exe cutive in that country with stronger powers ; yet, however strong those powers might be, he implored them to consider that the remedy would only be tem porary, till the grand cause of the evil was removed. The only effectual remedy was a resident Gentry,- aided by education and that powerful organ 'the Bible Societies, of which he had already.spoken.— Being about to return to Ireland in the ensuing week, lie should not have felt satisfied with himself if he had not offered these observations for the serious con sideration of their Lordships. The Noble Earl con cluded by proposing a humble Address to his Ma jesty, thanking him for his most gracious Speech, and expressing the concurrence of their Lordships in the spirit and tenour of it. Lord WALSINGHAM, in rising to second the motion, said, he should have occasion for more ample indulgence on the part of their Lordships had the sub ject nut been so ably treated by his Noble Friend, who anticipated everything which he had to offer.— It was graifying to hear that the repose of Europe was not likely to be disturbed ; and to us nothing was mote desirable than peace, when it could be maintained with a due regard to the interests of the nation. His Lordship made a few observations, which were to the same effect as those of the Noble Earl who had preceded him, adverting generally to the leading topics of his Majesty's Speech. The Marquis of LANSDOWN said, it was not his intention to rise on the present occasion, but that he did not observe anybody else disposed to offer his sentiments to their Lordships on the Address which had just been read. He did not feel it to be consist ent with his duty to withhold any observations that might suggest themselves to his mind on so impor tant a subject as that now ender ,consideration ; for important it certainly was, inasmuch as certain topics of great interest had, as it were, forced themselves into .the Speech which his Majesty had delivered.— Theirj.ordships would also see that in that Speech facts had been stated which came out as reluctant admissions—(!tear, hear).—He wished to offer a few observations as to the difference of the situation of this country and Ireland. It was now mcre than twenty years since the Union had taken place, yet it was melancholy to reflect that it produced no effect whatever in ameliorating the condition of the pea santry of Ireland, who shared none of those advan tages which the lower class in England possessed.— The political features of both countries were quite opposite and distinct. With reference to that part of his Majesty's Speech which adverted to agricul tural distiess, he should say, that much as he re joiced in the prosperity of the commerce and manu factures of the country, he should not indulge in any gratification at such an event, if it had not a ten dency to revive and promote that which was the mainstay of commerce and manufactures—the agri cultural interest—(Hear, hear).--It was by that inte rest alone that the cultivators of the soil were sup ported, and these formed the source of all national prosperity. With respect to commerce, and the im provements which had lately taken place in it, he believed that much depended on the demand from both North and South America, and a great deal must be trusted to speculation. In this opinion he was borne out by those who had the best opportu nities of forming a correct judgment on the matter. As to the reductions that had taken place, he must observe, that however willing he was to listen to any proposition which went to lessen the burdens of the country, and glad as he should always be to hear of any measures which gave an improved character to the Revenue, yet, before he gave a hasty approbation, he wished to ascertain the extent and purposes of the reductions that had been effected. When he heard of economy now for the first time, after the possibility of it was denied before, it reminded him of what Dr. Johnson said of Lord Littleton, who wrote a work called " The Dialogues of the Dead." " How," said the Doctor, " the Noble Lord, after fifty years, has learned to tell the world what for fifty years the world has been telling him." Thus the Noble Earl (Liverpool), who, for four years, talked of economy •s altogether impracticable, discovered by a new light, Which broke in upon him last year, that a good deal might be done in the way of retrenchment— (Hear, hear).—However, he (the Marquis of Lans down) fully subscribed to the new system upon which the Noble Earl professed to act, and he hoped it would be carried to the utmost in every department.' Whether any expedient could be devised for the re lief "of the labouring agriculturists he should not say ; but, if he were at liberty to allude to one which had come to his knOwledge within the last twenty . lout hours, he should protest against it as totally in effectual. He understood that a Meeting of particu lar persons had been called by a Noble Earl, at which it was proposed to lend the sum of five millions for the relief of the agriculturists. This expedient must prove altogether abortive. If relief was to be afforded by money, it was not in a country where money was abundant and security rare—(Hear, hear). .-.:.What good security could be found under the pre sent circumstances? And if no good security could be found, what good could be effected? Even if the rnbr.e) were given as a free gift, it must rather in jute than alaist the tar iculturisu ; and the Noble Earl himself could not but be of the same opinion, enter taining the views hadid on the question. The Noble Earl held that the evil arose from .a superabune dant produce, which must be checked. Now, it would surely be madness to increase that lespevabundant produce, which mast be the necessiey ennsequence of live millions of money being eaployed In agricul ture. He said thus much on the subject of agricul tural distress, not with a view of anticipating the ge neral merits of the question, which would more properly conic under their Lordships consider ation at another-time, but because he would not be understood as sanctioning any measure which did not appear to hill) calculated to effect the object in tended. The only effectual remedy to which their Lord ships could look was in a diminished expenditure.— In adverting again to the unhappy state of Ireland, as noticed in the Speech from the Throne, he felt deeply upon the subject, for reasons which every man ought to feel—reasons of shame and sorrow at the outrages that disgraced and brutalised so important a portion of the United Empire. Yet, at the same time, ,he felt that, in selecting as a Chief Governor for Ireland the Noble Marquis who had recently been sent over to that unhappy country, no choice could have been more wise or more judicious. That dis tinguished person was not to be surpassed for a vigour and reach of mind capable of applying a remedy to all the evils, both legislative and political. No man who did not possess such extraordinary powers could be competent to such an arduous task. Yet even from his exertions no material advantages could be derived, unless, soaring above the prejudices of the past, he provided remedies for the tuture---iHear, hear). No good could result from one particular act. The evil originated in a complication of cause, and the cure could only be found in a complication of remedies. The condition of society in Ireland was different ffom that which existed in any other part of the world. This was the great cause of the evil: The Noble Marquis now at the head of the Irish Go vernment would not attribute to any other cause that spirit of outrage which broke forth into open rebel lion, unless he believed, what no enlightened man could believe that there was something inherent in the Irish peo ple which could not be corrected—some thing to render them a semi-barbarous race. He would say, that the anomalous state of society in Ire land, which was the cause of the distresses that had been enumerated, was entii ely to be traced to the English Statute Book—(Hear, hear). —He was ready to adopt the most prompt and efficacious measures for restoring tranquillity and good order there, but he hoped that any new powers with which the Exe cutive might be invested, would not be confined to penal enactments. Referring to that part of his Ma jesty's Speech which contained an important allusion of a political nature, he felt in a great measure re lieved from the necessity of making any observations, on it by the explanation given by the Noble Earl who proposed the Address. He entirely agreed with the Noble Earl that in a contest between -Christians and Infidels—between the Greeks and their oppressors, no Englishman of feeling could be indifferent to the result—(Hear, hear). There could be but one feeling upon such a question; yet, while joining in the sen 7 timents delivered by the Noble Earl, he would say, that no active exertions on our part were called for, and it was perfectly compatible with the strictest neutrality that Greece should once more be what he was sure their Lordships wished her to be—free and independent--(Hear, hear).—The Noble Marquis sat down expressing his assent generally to the subject matter of the Speech, though it contained some state ments of which he could not entirely approve. With this impression on his mind, he should not oppose the Address. The Earl of LIVERPOOL, though he did not think that the observations of the Noble Marquis re quired a general explanation on his part, would still refer to some points which the Noble Marquis had brought before their Lordships. The Noble Marquis, in allusion to the reductions which had been made in our naval and military establishments, would fain re present this year as the first time that such reduc tions were contemplated. But it would be in their Lordships recollection, that in the course of the last year reductions had been effected to the amount of from £1,000,000 to £2,000,000; and it had been then said by his Majesty's Government, that the diminu tion of the public burden, particularly in the army and navy, was to be gradual. Whether the reduc tions which had lately been made would prove satis factory to the Noble Marquis or to their Lordships, he (the Earl of Liverpool) could not take upon him self to say, till the necessary explanations and details were gone into. He only wished to guard his Ma jesty's Government from the imputation that any class of persons had been treated with more harshness, or with a greater measure of injustice (a more appro priate term), than those who, filling high offices. were willing to deal out to themselves, while they felt it their duty to advise the reductions in question. Making every allowance for the feeling which called for such reductions, he could not say, at the same time, that they were of a nature to afford any mate rial relief to the agriculturists. They may prove sa tisfactory to the country, but it would be vain and idle to suppose that any sensible advantage to the agricultural interest could result from them. He fully agreed with the Noble Marquis in the position he had laid down, that no one great interest could be served is the prosperity of which all other inte rests did not participate. The agricultural and com mercial interests were:one. Every attempt to disso- ciate and distinguish them was detrimental to both. He admitted, however, that the agricultural interest must always be the first, however important might be the commercial and Manufacturing interests. But if the commercial and manufacturing interests pro spered, they must necessarily serve the agricultural interest; and those who would strike a blow at the two former, would inevitably injure the latter— (Hear, hear).—The Noble Marquis, in the Course of his speech, adverted to the risk which commercial men ran by excessive speculation; but they were now much more Cautious than before the war, being con tent with moderate profits. That system of-gam bling which manufacturers had practised in time of war ceased entirely on the , return of peace. There was every reason to believe that commerce and ma nufactures rested now on a Much more solid founda tion than during the war. Coming to the, remedy adverted to by die Noble Marquis, as having been. adopted within the last twenty-four hours, he could assure their Lordships that no such proposition as that stated by the Noble Marquis had been made 14 'his. Majesty's 'Qovernment. They had never.. posed: P. 6 'a loan of ,000,000 as al means of iir ji relit:Pao the agriculturists,,: It was true thataheY , had a communication with some persons ott_tb ion of s i t ject of agricultural distress, ancaoposn been made. respecting the inue of Exchequer Bills, which proposition would yet prObably he subtnitted to. the consideration of Parliament. He admitted that this question rested its a great degree on the question of supply mad demand : and it could not be forgotten that the vast importation of foreign corn which took place in the years 1816 and 1817 was the great casisenf the agricultural distress*-which after wards was so sensOaly felt. rt was elearthat Oistrest would be the consequence of over-production, and in illustration of this fact, it was only necessary for him to state, that within four years, not less than seven millions and a half of quarters of corn had been im ported from Ireland, while five millionsand halfhist of quarters had been imported in the course of year. Here, then, their Lordships would at once see the real source of the evil. Here they would see a na- I tural evil, to which an artificial one was superadded, in the methods taken to keep down the markets. He was ready to allow that the issuing of Exchequer Bills was objectionable in principle ; yet, as applied to certain branches of trade, such a plan produced a f practical effect, and the money borrowed was repaid. He would not take upon himself to state how far the principle could be applied to the agricultural inte rest. It was quite clear that, a free gift of any large sum would be nothing but madness; and no advance ought to be made, unless on good security. What ever proposition might be submitted to the Legis lature, he hoped it would be of such a nature that the Noble Marquis would not find it necessary to make any comments upon it. With respect to the convulsed state of Ireland, which had been noticed by the Noble Marquis, he (the Earl of Liverpool) should that night lay before their Lordships certain communications which had been made by the Irish Government to his Majesty's Ministers. Those papers would be in their Lordships' hands to-morrow, and - would inform them of the grounds upon which 'he 'should propose to arm the Executive in Ireland with additional powers, which, however, he intended should be confined only to the duration of the pre sent Session, wishing that the question of the state of Ireland might be maturely brought before their Lord ships before the next recess. Ilis Majesty's Govern ment felt that they would not be discharging their duty towards the loyal and peaceable subjects of Ire land, if they did not afford them effectual protection against the present system of disgraceful outrage that pervaded the country in different directions. No man was more ready than he.to appreciate fully the high tribute which the Noble Marquishad paid to the dis tinguished individual now at the head of the Execu tive in Ireland ; and he was convinced that that indi vidual was at the present, moment exerting all the force of his great talents, and calling into request all the energies of his posierful mind, not only to correct the evil, but to eradicate the cause of it. There was one circumstance peculiarly connected with Ireland which he felt it necessary to advert to. The insurrec tion in that country had begun before ever the King landed upon its shores; and notwithstanding its prevalence, no Sovereign*as ever greeted with more joyous satisfaction than his Majesty was by the whole of his Irish subjects. He should notice another cir. cumstance. Not long ago, he saw a letter from a person of the highest character in Ireland, in which it was declared that, notwithstanding all the disturb ances that had lately occurred there, if his Majesty were again to visit that country, he would be received with the same satisfaction. Then, if their Lordships were to look at the accounts that had appeared in the different public prints, and at the several Proclama tions published in Ireland, they would not find that there was anything like a systematic spirit of opposi tion or disaffection against the Government, nor that the present discontents arose out of any differences with respect to religion. He thought it necessary to notice these circumstapces, in order to direct their Lordships' attention to a proper view of the subject, in order to shew that the evils which existed in Ire land had not arisen from any conflict between the governors and the governed ; and they all wept to prove, that the condition of the country was different from that of any other country that was ever heard of in the world before. It would be then for their Lordships to investigate and go to the bottom of this great evil, and apply such a remedy as would be ne cessary to put a stop to it. The Earl of BLESINTON said, in alluding to the state of Ireland, that he fully agreed that it was im possible to appoint a more competent Lord Lieu tenant than the Marquis Wellesley: it was impossible to find any man more capable of fulfilling the duties of his situation, or a man who possessed a mind more endued with iolitical wisdom, or more capable even of military execution, if such should be necessary. Hitherto Ireland had, unfortunately, been governed by men who had been appointed to their situations merely from their political connections ; and, for the last twenty-two years, the only Nobleman who had conferred any real benefit on that country was one who had been allowed only to remain there for a single year. The Noble Mover of the Address had talked of the grievance arising from so many persons being absentees from Ireland. He himself fully agreed in that sentiment, and that was one of his on that ysest a iet c n i c emco o rbyeee u l etna i art : ae All L c :aBae : c is, idiswot a bsentee s ben: the snpiaedt wasri tsedi he dteeeemfi stated was h th e refore pc asuy sos c au s e greattreeoornfyae never employment, htggo theirar grievance, ni reepdovvlpa: ob se rveetunclon. reasons for disapproving of the Union ; because the Union had increased the number of absentees, and b n ec e au s etmthinelemployment dissentious.4:)t t i t . s hipsa any specific measure for the benefit of Ireland. The o a f nd lre ti la le nd eo th un a t t4a ei y; l a t i h rd e Noble Marquis was entitled to his thanks for having heso aelioleygaradtvuoclaateteddat:elec aHouseuse prospect that at length appeared of an intention on the part of the Government to interfere in behalf of that distressed country. The Address was than agreed to Neminedissentien te. • The Earl of LIVERPOOL moved the reading of the Sessiorral Orders of last year, which was done. His Lordship then moved that the Earl of Shaftes bury do act as Chairman of the Committee • during Committees tfiepresent Session.—Ordered. The Earl of LIVERPOOL taid-btfore the House 1 proposed grievance. certain papers received from the Marquis Wellesley, ,relative to the present state of Ireland.—.Orderl t o nton the table. 'At hal~ : past !EKES the House adjourned. HOURS OP COMMONS. A; twenty minutes to two o'clock, the SPEAKER enteed the House, but did not immediately take the Chair. There were thed upwards of one 'hund re d Mertibtri Mort. . • • At two preciselyciftintiMtikvit Amain ing in .tbe .meantime, the SrmAiia mi* the disk and - Sir Thotnas Tytiwhitt, Mater oldie 'Black R ed . immediateiy entered, and ' e sumrnOned the House to the Peers,, to bear Speech.the . The Sreat ut • t i letkennee de4 to the Wouse of Lords, and was ; K . compaited by every Member. in the 'House, mitt t h e ,eiCeptiOn of Sir _oforrt t l esititen, Scai-1, Mid Mr. HoblUirse, who remained 'chi ll i The &sigma did not again retnyti to tte linos : till four o'clock, when the Right. . Hon.-Gentlem an 'took the Chair, and the Hotiserisimed. • . Intw- warri: The SPEAKER. then acquainted the Rouse, d ue Since their last meeting, pursuant to the 54th , o f G eo. , HI. cap. 4,1 e had caused new Wits to ; m il e f ly Members to serve in the present Parlianient—f o.le county of Louth, in the room of the Right Hon. Joh ai Foster, radiate the Peers by the title of Lord Ori e i for the Queen's County, in the roans if the Right Ho nourable W. Welkisley Pole, Created Lord 11Cryb,,. rough - for the county of Antrim, in the room of IL J. Huih. Seymottr, Esq. deceased; for the University of Oxford, in the room of the Right Hon. Sir W u. Scott, created Lord Stowell ; for the - Borough (i -Shaftesbury, in the room of the Hon. Edward bord, called : to the Peers as Lord Suffield ; for tile eounty of Salop, in the room of John Cotes, Esq. for the &rough of King's Lynn, in the room of Sir Mar tin Browne FoDoes, Bart. and for Castle Rising, the room of the Earl of Rocksavage,calleci to the Pc,rs by the title of Lord New borough. Several Members took the oaths and their seats. Upon the motions of several Menibers, new Wri3 were then ordered for the county of Montgomery, is the room of the Right Hon. Charles Watkin Wil liams Wynn, who had accepted the office of Presi dent of the Board. of Coutroul ; for the Borctr„ . ;11 of Buckingham, in the room of Wm. Henry Fremantle, Esq. who had accepted the office of a Commissioner for the Affairs of India ; for the Borough of Sr. Mawes, in the room of Joseph Phillimore, Esq. who had also accepted the office of a Commissioner for the Affairs of India ; for the University of Oxford, in the mom of the Right Hon. Robert Peel, created one of his Majesty's Principal Secretaries of State ; for - the Borough of •West Looe, in the room of Henry . Goulburn; Esq. who had accepted the office of Chief Secretary for Ireland. The SPEAKER informed the House, that the Clerk had prepared the usual Sessional Bills. The Clandestine Outlawry Bill was then read a first and second time. • The customary Sessional Committees of Privileges, . arc. were appointed, and the usual Standing Orders were then agreed to. . Mr. G. IfENNET-gave notice, that he would take the earliest opportunity, as soon as he heard the wc.d "-Supply" from his Majesty's Ministers, of brini;ing under the consideration of the House, the sub;ect of the Funeral of her late Majesty—(Hear, hear). Mr.LUSHINGTON moved, that the Speaker do issue his Writs for the Election of Members for—the Borough of Carnarvon, in the room of the Hots. Sir Charles Paget, who had accepted die office of 6:ocut of his Majesty's Bedchamber; and for Dunitiies, is the room of W. R. Keith Douglas, Esq. who bad been made one of the Lords of the Admiralty.—Ordered. Sir ROBERT WILSON rose to give notice, that he would, on Tuesday, the 12th instant, move for Copies of all Correspondence which took place be tween his Royal Highness the Commander-in-Chief, Lerd Sidmouth, and himself, relative to his dismissal from the Army. Seeing the Noble Marquis (London derry) in his place, he wished to ask if it was his in tention to oppose the production of these papers ? He had asked the question, because he meant to govern his line cf conduct by the answer to be re ceived; if no difficulty was thrown in the way of producing the papers, he would reserve his exposi to another time; but if it was now understood that his motion was to be opposed, he was bound to say that he thought it his duty, when making the motion, to enter upon the subject, and lay open all its details to the House—( Hear, hear). • The Marquis of LONDONDER It Y said he thought it odd that a Member of the House should, ppon no tice of motion, be called upon to state what coure he meant to take when the motion was made. At tl:e present moment he was not prepared to give an an swer to the question.of the Honoorable Member. lie could not say that-he -meant to oppose the motion, if it was any convenience to the Hon. Member. Sir ROBERT WILSON said, he had asked the question less for his own convenience than that of the House. He then.repeated.his notice of motion for the Production of all Correspondence which took place, in the months of September and October, be tween the Commander-in-Chief, Lord Sidmouth, and himself, relative to his dismissal from the Army. Lord EBRINGTON gave notice that he would, shortly after Easter, bring in a Bill to secure the more effectual Representation of the People in Par- liament—(llea r, hear). SPEECH rftott THE THRONE. • The SPEAKER then proceeded to inform the House that the Hoese had been to the House tf Lords, where his Majesty was pleased to deliver Speech, of which he had obtained a copy, and he would now read it to the House. The SPEAKER then readdie King's Speech (for which see the Report of the Debate in the Lords). — As soon as the Right Hon. Gentleman had tinishod reading the Speech, Mr. ROBERT CLIVE rose for the purpose csi moving an Address, in reply to the gracious Speech which had been that day delivered from the Throne. The first point, he said, to which he called o . * attention of the House, and upon which he believed 'there would be haunt feeling of satisfaction, was the passage in which his Majesty spoke of the stro n g assurances of airiendly nature which he had received from foreign dowers. It would be gratifying to the House to learn that since their last meeting nothing had happened to break in upon the general harmony which prevailed, and the continuance of which spat upon all hauds so desirable. Differences of a se.ious 0.. .