Star. — London, England, 1817-04-29 00:00:00

' 0 ~_...._ tale to parishes. Unless they could provide a markett, for the produce of labour, unless they could revive the commerce of the country, he did not see how the issue of Excheqber Bills could be of any benefit, for they would not create resources. , . Mr. C. GRANI' said, the primary object of the measure was to relieve the poor, and that was, at • present, the only object of their consideration. The mod.. of that relief would hereafter come before them. No doubt, however, it won't be preferable, that whatever obi wa s bestowed should be as a fewsrd for labour, rather than as a Mere gaatuity. Itovimld keep up the moral habitsroof a i be people, and •tegeb them industry. It certainby Would net be desirable to extend our manufacturesiolne.the complaint now. made was, that the supply lay eircreded the demand.' It weuld Dot therefore be wise to meet the evil, by increasing, still (either, that supply. Sir M. W. lUD LEY inquired, whether, in lend ing money to parishes, personal security would be required, in addition to the security of the poor rates fond ; and whether the Commissioners to be appointed were to act gratuitously I . The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER replied, that personal security would certainly be de manded.. With respect to the Commissioners, he hoped that as, on former occasions, persons of re spectability had been found willing to lend their ser vices gratuitously for the benefit of the poorothere would net he less liberality manifested on the present. Mr. BROUGIiAbt said, he agreed with what had fallen from his Hon. Friend below .hiar (Mr. Ponsoilby) and that it would be most .painful to his fielinho, it lie 'should . ..find trinsself e.ompelled to sty terpose'airo . obstaeles • hi the way of the pewit ince.i tyre. It wcold. be arrogance in him, however, im- 1 per'eoly .as 1* fet understood its nature, to argue upon its genrral chat octet . ; and he could only express •-s hope that it might he found practicable, and celcu o , listed to overcomes many of the objections to which it, sgt first aispeored treble. At the . same rink he wished to tali; 'tb at oppriituniiy of expressino, one Or two doilliti that prevailediu his own mii.d. Intim first place'. 'ea iritlieoninitee in which the money was to he ~employed.. It was eirident, that it would be chiefly, If not entioeTy,opplied to the promotion of rioblic enarks. .No to the idea of parish officers been= Ilk L:g manufaitoieto,:it was so preposterous, that its ibstirdity. beedly requited to be illuatiated. It was Impossibleehey shoulit be Able tqtcwy r on an y braise) of manufacture, either with bensfit to Ow cilontotiit Or comb at to thausselires. TI T idIA was equally. _ . i d surd .also, as appl-cable to agrivOtbralai,ursuos. Puh lic works, therefore, of some kieflocoalito. would,' the objects to which the money must be appli e d - ,-.. But 'nen a diffiroety immediately occurred. What no 01 kept public works from going on f.--Was it tie want of capitol solely ? He was afraid nut.— He was &raid it was the wart of a demand for Feb: lic works, and that canals, bridges, and roads, .were fir t now wanted, fOr the same reason that other pro ductions of labour were not wanted. If they were found no longer to answer the views of private ad irenturers, it was not likely they would ever tempt persons to become debtors of the Crown for the sake of carrying them on. lf, on the other hand, they were desirable simulations, wiruhl not the Money that was necessary be borrowed-in 'the usual way 1 I . 'or it would have this advantage, that no Exchequer pro cess could be issued against the borrower, and it ap. peered that the usual Crown preeess was to be em. ployed in recovery of whatever sums might be leis. With respect to canals, he believed there.was nothing which' bad been more overdone in this . country than that description of improvement. Besides. the *Ws. lance in that way snot necessarily be very limited; ft r be understood it was not unusual to expend halt a million of money it he completion of a single ca nal. Then, as to roads and bridges; he believed there was no slowness, even in the present distressed SLAW of the country, in making roads where they were wan _ ted. The advawage was so evident, and the benefit so immediate, that capital was seldom delicirnt.— . Perhaps application might be made.for assistance to &Ill) a briefs, or two, but even there his uteri hopes were not very sanguine. With u oigord to parordrill, relief, he doubted whether any goelet advantage would be derived horn 'hot past °E l oise - ppm. • He wouttl, take Birmingham for example, ,froui which . ploce he, bad that night presented a Petitini„r t i s gned by opwarcks , et 12,000 persons, who were out of employ. He might fairly, however, estimate the male population et that town and its neighbourhood, who were ca pable of work,, at 26,000. According to the proposed phia o by which the relief afforded to a parish was to be in the.proportion of one-half of what it annually paid in poors' rates within a certain period, Birming ban/ would be entitled to receive only et 90,000, hav ing paid for some time past at the rate of 4'60,000 a year for the relief of its pow. But suppose to that were added £ 50.000 for a canal, a road. or a bridge. The whole relief which that sum would afford, at ten shillings a week-for labour, would only be to employ 20.)0 out of the 25,000 for oat year, and upon such *ages as were hardly sufficient for the support of life. He entertained considerable doubt riot° the probabi lity of ending respectable persons willing to accept any such loans, under the obligation of entering into recogaixances, or of being subjected to extents in aid. Let the Right Bon. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) be as rigorous as be pleased in look. ins out for good securities, but at the lame time let the mosey be advanced to those securities on the same teems as any capitalist in the City of Loudon would afford the loan. Unless that course was adopt ed, Corporations perhaps, with a view to Ilse jobbing of favoured individuals, may accept the terms but Ire was confident iadividual s , or associated bodies of persons, would be extremely slow in committing themselves to obligations so sev. re in their operation.— .. ea was also solicitous to be intormed how the- diro l trihution of thee: funds was to be managed. He . a.ot disposed to indulge so ha rs h an o pi n i on , th at an y' undue influence in the application was intended, but - he was cor-fident that es t ey thing depended on sods. dying that House and the conptry - that •npne will ari l . .. co u ld take place. He trusted', therefore, that such A selection of Commissioners ~seas iisterided, sad es Elie service was to be gratuitous, a selection could be' well made of the must respectable and independent characters, such as would give confidence to the ' , expectations of the people. Sefore it were possible to give effect to the decision of Parliament, that Wai o robably at the end of'three or 4 months, the exercik ss any' implorer Wham, cc even the suspicion of it .. . . .. •• LONDON. • TO-MORROW THE LOTTERY BEGINS DRAWING MO RE THAN TWO PRIZES TO ONE BLANK-FOUR OF TWENTY THOUSAND-TICKEIS UNUSUALLY CHEAP. TUESDAY, APKTL 29, 1817. 'PRICE OF sTocKs THIS DAY AT TWEI.VRO'CLOCK S . Com. 72—Do. for Account, 72,15--Rellutod 71 a per Cest. Navy, 101114-.4 per Ceot. 117 f Ezdeiver 84/14 lIIe. 20s. pc—lndia Donde 75 74 pea The Plan of the CHANCIILLOR of the Exclaim= tot the relief of the Poor came before the House of Commons last night. The whole sem proposed to be advanced for England, is a million and a ball, by an inuenf Exchequer Bulls, by Commissioners to be yet appointed; the money to be emplpyed in CoM• plating •Publie Works now in progress, or about to be commenced; in encouraging the Fisheries; and in providing employment for the Poor in different 'Parishes. The money intended for Parishes is to be advanced on chi Poore' Rates. In no case are the Commission:, to advance more than halt the sum raised by the Poore' Rates in the preceding year, and the money is only' to` to lent to Parishes in which those rates in the last Tear have been made double what they were on the average of the three years an tecedent to it. It will hence be seen that the Com asissioaers bare the tower of advancing to a Parish thus circumstanced, a sum equal to the ordinary an nual produce of its Poore Rates. The sum to be advanced for Ireland is two bun. drcd and fifty thousand pounds—to be issued out of the Consolidated Fund. for the completion of works of a public nature. From the plan eubmitted, it will be seen that these disbursements do not constitute a national Poor Rate, in addition to the Parochial Rates. Securities ard to be duly taken en the Loans; nor ill the burthen of the general Taxes be increased by thy considerable losses. In one word, if means be 4 0 04 ie remive r dm tears expressed by some 4 that theism, maybe converted into means of influence at t he expected General Election, it is not easy to see any solid ob jection that can be urged to the measure; and much public benefit may be expected to result from it. They are mistaken, however, that can persuade themselves that loans from the community to indivi duals or portions of the family will instantly re move the causes of our general distress—nor can the staress be remedied till the cause ..be, removed, of its . operation in some degree neutralized by the counteraction of other causes. You need ei lber a diminished expenditure or an increased re venue. These two terms are precisely of the Same value and import, in examining a question of this kind, nor can any fallacy or disguise of language change their quality. Is their any absolute want of property in the country ? NI such thing : we have every acre of land that we ever had ; the rain pours down as freely es in times past. and the Sun and Moon run their course to ripen the products t.f the earth, as regularly as ever. As to the riches under the surface of our soil, they are as mach within our power as ever—nay more, by the extended powers of our machinery. Is there any want of moveable property ? So far frorti this being the fact there are millions now unoccupied, and means are wanted for their employment. Do we want ships ?—do we need sailors ? The former we have in such abundance that many are rotting in our Ducks— the latter in such numbers that they are wandering over the whole country. Let not the tact then be disguised, for while you shut your eyes you will never think of applying a proper remedy. Your Poor Rates and your 'fazes have been suffered to operate, taken together, as heavily as ever, while a general derangement of all your commercial relations has taken place and re coiled upon your Agricultaralists, while the necessary accompaniumst of this derangement, an increase of the number of hands ash° cannot find productive employment, is daily aggravating the evil. Can retrenchment in your National expenditure be instantly effected to such an extent as shall turn the scale ?—No—Niit at present. This is not the work of a d3y. To deny its necessity would be obstinacy, nor have any been so absurd To maintain that be cause its recessity is admitted, its accomplishment needs but to be willed, is equally foolish. The mon strous expenditure was incurred by too long a course of extravagance to be cured in a week or a month. You have begun retrenchment—pursue it—hut you must seek and you may find speedy relief, in per forming an act of justice in relation to the operation of the other source of your malady--tbe Poor Rates. When the community resumed the hada which had been wrung from them by priestcraft, to the ex tent of more than a fourth part a the best land of the kingdom, it was soon found, that as the funds of the previous landholdcrir( the Monasteries) were taken from them, it was absolutely necessary that the new proprietors should be burtheaed with the maintenance of the poor that were formerly supported by the Mo nasteries—hence our poor laws. Did the Monks for merly maintain the poor out of mere charity ? M— ule maintenance they gave rose out of the necessity of the case. Land was the only property of the country at that times they bad no choice; for the land is the natural support of its inhabitants; ant had they, withheld the support, it is very probable they would much sooner have been deprived of the Lordship than they were. When provision was made by law for the Poor, ihe contribution was levied on property. There was no property then but land.; and hence the load has ever since been chiefly levied from thit species of property. Had funded prated) , then existed, it would have been subjected to its tats proportion of the burthen ; but its future creation could not even be contemplated. While this species of property continued to bear only a small proportion to the other, its exemption produced, comparatively, but small inconvenience; for it was in the power of the farmer to shift a proportionate share of the load from himself by enhancing the price of his produce. But as the dividends from the funds increased in magni tude, his power to be the rateleathffer for the others be came proportionably diminished, while his ability and that of the rest of the community (not fundholders) became daily diminished by their actually furnishing in taxes (besides their poor rates) the very money that formed the dividends to the Stockholders! 1 That is—the spare profits of their lands front which alone they could maintain the poor, are first taken from them in the shape of taxes to be divided among the Fund-holders, and yet they alone are required to maintain thixe by whose boJily exertion the whole has been produced, while the Fund-holder is charged only to the extent of the rent of his dwelling! Asto nishing absurdity 1 which needs. only to be steadily looked at to be as discernable as the sun at noon Jay. If you go on with your quackery and your pal liatives any longer, you will be ruined past help of remedy. Boldly meet the evil. and apply the propriate remedy. Till this is done, there can be no such thing as that just diffusion of property which forms the health of a Community —that necessary return for the esetticns of industry, without which there can be no prosperity. The tendency of every system of unequal pressure is to augment daily the wealth of the protected party. at the expense' of the rest of the•community. But • what is the sum of this expense to them ultimately Their utter ruin—they must sell their possessions to those who can buy them—to those into whose pockets the present system must, ere long. send the whole excess of our industry ! Nay, not only the excesubet el.e whole capital that produces it ! In the early part of the evening Sir HINAY Pen cm. presented the Catholic Petition, upon the subject of which some conversation took place ; and -Mr. WiLaisaleaCa presented a Petition from the Acade mical Institution, a license to which has lately been reiusekby the London Magistrates. This Petition was wail received, it being admitted by Mr. Ba rman that there was no intention of putting down all political discussion under the Sedition' Meetings' Bill. A similar admission, it will be.seen, was made 37 Lad SitmeNph in the tiler: of Lords. I • in the distribution of this loan. in the event of a ge neral election, might produce the most injurious and reprehensible effects. ,Before he sat down, he could not help throwing out for the consideration of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in place of the intended issue, the propriety "of remitting the *rear; of the Property Tax (or two or three years, or he would say altogether. Such an alleviation at this moment would be attended with the most effectual assistance to a most suffering class, while the fair dealer met no greater impediment to his claims than what arose from the severity with which those arrears were collected. Mr. 11U I'TERWORTH recommended that a portion of these fonds should be applied to the erec tion of parochialschool houses. - • . The first Resolution was then put and carried. On the second Resolution. for voting the sum of £250,000 to be applied to the use of the Public Works and Fisheries of Ireland, Sir F. FLOOD tomplained of the very short mea. sure afforded in its unparalleled distress to Ireland, whose population were patient under their sufferings, whilst other parts of the Empire were disturbed by meetings to subvert the Constitution. He bad recently traveled through five' counties in Ireland, and the only food of its• labouring poor was half-boiled pota toes. It was shameful in st.eh an emergency to see Marquisses, 'Earls, and Gentlemen of fortune, emi grating, as numerously as shoals of herrings (a 'laugh), to foreign countries, for no other reason than to avoid their share of the taxes.—(Hear, hear.) — If it was amusement therwanted, why did they not come to our country—(a laugh)—and give us the benefit i—But no—they spent more money than it would.otheswise cost: them in doing their duty, by travelling from England to Calais, and from Calais to France--(a itursh).—The House would not do its duty, unless itlevied on ,all these emigrants an impost 'of 20 per cent: unlesi hi the case of ill health, which should. be verified by the certificate of a physician '(a lairri),..—The Irish Members, at a great expense, and with :considerable difficulty in procuring their rents from their unfortunate tenants, came to this country to do their duty; and yet in the meritorious endeavonts of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, their suffering Constituents arc Cut off with short measure. All they wanted was Capital—he trusted, therefore, the Right Honourable Gentleman would re-consider the second Resolution, and add a few thousands more for the use of the right arm of England—(a larch). Tile Resolution was tarried, and the Report or dered t, be received to-morrow. SAVING BANKS. Mr. ROSE moved the Oran of the Day for the House goi.ig into a Committee on the Saving Banks Bill; pro falba; for the purpose of adJing some clauses, and postp.:ning the discussion until -Friday next. Sir Ci - MONCK whiled also to add a clause, ena bling persons having interests in those Banks, to transhr such interests by way of security. Sir J. NEWPORT was decidedly against making those interests negotiable: it would be adverse to the whole intent of the Legislature. Atter a lew words from Sir THOMAS BAILING and Mr. Pnit.r.rPs, the House went into a Committee, when the Bill was read in it: several clauses. Mr. HUSKISSON moved that those labourers and others who should have, during three years, paid a weekly sum into the Saving Winks, without draw ing out any part cf it,, should, in case of their becom ing paupers by adverse circumstances, be entitlef to additional allowances.—Agreed to. Tl:e Report of the Bill was ordered to be received on Friday, and in the mean time to be printed. IIitSCILLANLOU% _ _ _ The Window Light Zsomption Rill was ro.commltted, and the Report ordered to be received to-morrow. Mr. H. MAR filif moved, that there be laid before the Home an account of all Monies. Secaritim. and ilacherser Bilk, be longing to) Suitors In the Cant of Nachequer invested by the Deptity-Reinembraneer, specifying those luvesied by the order of the Court, and those invested miaow he order.- —Ordered. The Finance Committee Report was ordered to be taken into conslderatieu on 'lttursday neat. • lbe other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the House.adjourned at isavis o'CLocs. THE EVENING STAR. TILE ARMY. Friday, *tont 80 men left the depot of t 1: regiment M Edinburgh Castle, to embark at L 4 t l / 2 , and proceed to join the regiment lyitog at C..r. to. The transports. w;th the 40. h 4,•,,r r , of the 88th regiment, armed at Leith 1, t we, k ~; a very tedions ae,l I, ,, isterons voyave The 40th conanknced its marei on S du. ; fir Glisgow. A considerable draft CAbout 251 ri k J we..) i.,t been made from the (23 b 34.t0 qlsrtered in Clonmel, to fill up the I,t b.t wh;ch is in india. Saturday s...'npight, the Eastern Tr. op of fi•, 2 , hurghshire Ye im..ury C.tvalry. itri.he c 'fn., t • t.: Lieutenant-Colonel r I. CRIIAR r, ins . ... .0 on Woo Jen Ana, ssli-n Ole arms antl accoitt; were fctand to be in excelli n. orJer. :tones to go into quarters a: K-Iso for ten days, on the L. of May. NAPAL rA727I.LIOENCII. FALMOU Ili, AMU. 'al. Arrived the 1-1 tr-nt Londgm. Sale: the Swiftsure p:citet, with Mail, r the Lrewc,i Swif:surc. Tito:Arne. tor Litt) .n a.. 1 Amon, PUILLTri, Wind N. POIt rsNloti l'H, APRIL 2s. Sailed the Elizt transp.tit. for the Daring; aa Isabelle, It (sir Shirlds —.Wit ! I IV. DE M.., APRIL tr. Sailed for the It:cer, the - H. mu,. IS sin, tr-r, Savannah. And Ocean, Am. hum 14m ic4. main in the Downs. the G358M..:136 frit: r, cutter ; Itatlesnake, Ittvenue t an I th. li. iigrencr, East India r iht yacht. the latter ib 1 ,. . 3 the Arrival of some of VI: houtevretd.l.: .2:1.1 1. Indiansen.—Wind S 1401W1C.11, APR:I. eg. Sailed the Lady Islepran and Loral N..lson p•ct. for Cuxhaven, with Mails. Nowni sulEi.ng, /,p ; IL 26. Put into this port tLe X. Y.Z. .4.4.1 Finny tr. pints, with troops on bo.tr:l, bona.' to Lritti. tell shot t of provisioas, an,l.ore roplAylag The Paris Papers of 3 curday are the otiii anis from the Continent th.s !nos The KING of :RANCE bzid a C Comic.), far , . it said, oh the 25. h, but we do serve any thing extraoanary to have resuite.i f r • Ilif 111.t.U.Slif is s ill rl %able tz) leave 1116 ;Iraq Ments.--An arrest of scme imp irt,mce 11. i; Li r e place, which is thus announced in the Joilin :4. II We are assured that Madame RvavAtar (dt. SAN: JEAN A\01±01) has been arrested at her chateautf Val, near Paris, and condarted yesterd.l (Friday) to the Comiergerie:" French Funds, 95:h lett: 67 1. 15 c. New York and V,rgiilia Papers, to the Lutes ell of March, arrived this uvriiing. The only intel. genet of importance whie'l they contain relai.s President Prrrow, of St. Doming, who is tail, at the authority of a schooner, ft crr. ha w ordered an j impress in all his ports, of nausea ft r :he service of the Repub'ic. A letter from Trieste, dated the ICtli 'n. 1 . tions, that too Austrian frigates, the Austria, Car:. PASQUALION and the Augu,ts, Ca; t. sailed from that pert for Rio .lanriro, I.4v4ig es board many tons of Animists manufactures, by t. of encouragiag the subjects of that Empire ro sea. menu a direct commercial intercourse ecith the Br6tift. The Duchess of Gtoccerren continues seri.msly indisposed. Her Royal Highness sprained her anck lon Friday, during her jourr:ey Irons Windsor; erg it is feared that, in her present condition, some ~ t!* ill consequences may have Ell .wed from the slink. The Duke of NEWCASTLIt is recoveridg fast, as is also the rest of the family. It is now understand that the emptying of the fish-p , md is not considered as t!,e cause sif the fever, wh pi acceded from severe colds The person named Arthur Mittlesuoaal. for yaws , apprehension, to answer to a charge of high treason, Government, some time ago, offered a reward ef £5OO, has been taken, and brought to town. He ap pears to have got on board a vessel, in the Rive; with his wife and child, with a view to escape II America ;.but intimation of hit rnoticuas having bees given he •was apprehended off Gravesend. There were some others taken with him, against whom ire do not, as yet, learn that any charges have been el- Whited ; though, as his friends and the partners of his flight, they may be objects of suspicion. Thiek• wood himself was brought to London ky water, and was at first lodged in Tuthill-fields Bridewell ; from whence he was taken to the Secretary ef State's 017 ,- e at ten o'clock Jest night, for examination, and lira thence committed to the Tower. He appeared MOO dejected. With respect to his particular share 3 concern in proceedings of a treasonable nature, I may be recollected that be is the person who hashers represented as having ordered the pikes, and as oar wise a leading character in the ourages which (P -graced the metropolis. He is understood to to el third man who was whh the two Watson: at Ilit t • gate, when the eider Watson was apprehendelby Mid. the i;orse.patrole. The Grand Jury before whom the Bills for F.% Treason have been laid were - yc:terday clierged is the Court of King's Bench by Mr. Justice Batty: after which they proceeded to the Crand Jury R.g** to examine witnesses. The Bill of Ind.wrrasat is against the two 11 7 0trony, treitos, Mnler, Kele, 5 11 Thistimmcd. From the mime and lerm of :! . .e indictment it is extremly long. It totrPr i l lour counts, and imput e s to th e p ers o ns fourteen acts of treason. The trials are ex: acted tO commence on the 11;th of next month. Yesterday ltehett ali:s William l'illTtor, sat brought to town from Manchester, and conc.-ye,' 'G the Secretary of State's Office for the T-T.,m2 D:1! ment, wf:ere he underwent an examination ; ht ‘cal afterwards committed to prison. Tuesday a melancholy accident. happened at L4th. A new vessel was getting her masts on boar a, w: Ca a gentleman who was standing by was caug!:tby sheers, by which ore of his arias was torn 41 1 he was thrown on the quay with great vic!cr.c , .. :1 11 much bruised. lie is still ill a vary danger.-n+ w;l°. iu~~% Sunday morning, April 27,in lox 34th year, Mary Richardg.. wile ot Mr. J. M. ilirliard.son, Bokseller, loruhid, !ay . ; eleven children to lament the irreparable loss ot a mot intl* m■ile n.oth.r. LQtll.)Vti ; l'itued errl pt:NlAlied by I .rwrs it, rf; lteui le.tar. rr It. ts t. 3 a f 1. st e I. I e E a a a 5 •