Star. — London, England, 1822-06-27 00:00:00

~~ . ~.,~,~~- - T7y• . rW;f7.7 N of o t b h k e C m om a.r i ci titt s ee al ll h ttil t alluded as s a ith4Reassobeludoplean-sed of The dis vigouraxg—(A l i tis.44)--aye, Sir, dis-vigouring l The term was not has (Mr. Creevey's): he should never think of using such a word. He had borrowed it from the vocabulary of the Noble • Marquis—(4 laugh).—He was never more /surprised than when he heard it. He wished to shew what had been the practice of Parliament at various times. In 1782 hel—He had now stated to. the House the motion which found a Message from the King to the following ef. be had to submit. He knew he should be left in a fect:" His Majesty has taken into consideration the limited minority, yet he knew that, when the enlight supply granted by Parliament, and, in the present ened opinion of the country would become ac distressed state of the country, recommends to his quainted with the facts which he had stated, sooner faithful Com Mons to adopt the most effectual plan of or later the Bill would be entirely removed from economy." Now, if that retrenchment was necessary their statutes—(Hear, hear). at the end of the American war, when *e had only Mr. BANKES said, he w,as not sorry the Hon. a debt of 200,000,0001. how much More necessary Member had brought the subject before the House, was it now, when that debt amounted to 800 millions? because it would give him an opportunity of explain. (Hear, hear).—This system was perfectly new ; but ing the views of the Committee which recommended supposing it were not, and that it had been the prac. the Bill. The principle of the Bill was to abolish tice of Parliament to propose rewards for public men, every office without duty. The Hon. Gentleman and to marshal them out like clerks, there never was said, the principle was not -one which ought to be such an atrocious, abominable barso.irras was made supported, and that it was a departure from the prin between these pensioners and the Public. The fifth ciple of Mr. Burke's Bill. That great man held that Resolution, which he should now read, referred to it would not be injurious to the Constitution, if the that part of the subject: Government were allowed to tempt great talents into " 5. That in addition to and independent of the preceding the public service, by the means of giving certain objections, u affecting the origin and principle of the Pension offices as a remuneration. The Committee of which ICI, the contract which is thereby set up between the pensioners he was Chairman when they considered the measure under the Bill, and the public at large, is without any adequate " , consideration or advantage on the part of the nation ; that the then before the House, were willing to adopt the offices to be prospectively abolished or regulated, by the Act of principle which allowe d sinecures to be given for the 57th of George the Third, cap. 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 67, and 84, public services, but they found it had been abused, forma limited part only of offices of the same description. a nd which were all decided upon as fit to be abolished or regulated that they could not concur with Mr. Burke in his by the votes of this House, in the years 1912 and 1813; that of view of the subject. They resolved to abolish sine the offices to be prospectively abolished, those of the two Chief cures, and they recommended the Sovereign to te- Justices in Eyre, of the value of two Thousand pounds per annum ward services with pensions rather than offices each, are the only ones which have been usually granted by the It was impossible he could support the motion. Crown to persons who have held high and efficient civil offices, and that of the offices to be prospectively regulated, the pried- —lf the Bill was repealed matters would return to pal regulation is, that the duties of such offices are to be propor- what they were. On the repeal of the Bill sinecures tiunably regulated. The principal regulation is, that the duties must revive. The offices retained in Mr. Burke's Bill of such offices shall be performed by the holders thereof in per- had been ,ab ° lished ; but with respect to offices held son, instead of by deputy, the appointment to such offices, as well • aspf salaries, being left at the sole discretion of the Commis- for life, that was a species of property which Mild aioners of his Majesty's Treasury ; and yet in return for, and by sat be set at nought. Much had been said with re way of purchase of these prospective, partial, and indefinite spect to a pension granted to his Noble Friend, but he savings, the people are to pay, from henceforth 42,0001. per would app eal to the House whether the conduit of annum, in perpetuity, to the different public servants of the Crown who are named in the Pension Bill." his Noble Friend, while he filled the Chair of that The principle on which the Pension Bill was sane- House, was not admired? He was convinced no man tioned was, that by its operation many places had ever received more respect and gratitude for public been altogether abolished ; but with very few excep- services. It was but reasonable to reward the Noble dons, all that had been done was, to introduce an in- Lord for a long and laborious public life—(Hear).— i definite kind of regulation. An Hon. Gentleman near He could not consent to repeal the Bill, anti thereby him (Mr. Bankes) had stated on a former occasion, deprive the Crown of the prerogative of remunerating that he (Mr. Creevey) had voted for these enactments; public men. The best prerogative of the Crown was but the Bill to which he gave his support, professed to that which made them authors of the benefits con- have for its object the abolition of all offices which terred on meritorious public servants. If ever they had no employment, and to regulate those which had; took that prerogative out of the hands of the Crownl and there was this difference between that Bill and it would not only be unconstitutional, but occasion a the one they were now discussing—namely, that ac- burden more onerous than the pensions. The Hon. cording to the Bill for which he, voted, all the salaries Member concluded by moving, as an Amendment, of useless offices were to be saved to the Public. At that the House proceed to the other Orders of the Day. that time he took the Hon. Member for a sincere Re- Mr. H. G. BENNET said, that lie had voted for former, but never was Reformer so dis-vigoured— th e Bill, thou g h the Lord Chancellor had a pp lied to (Laughter). He was surprised that a grave Gentle• it every species of hard name, because his object was man like the Hon. neMber, could first introduce a to keep in his hands the patronage of sinecure offices. measure of such vast utility as the one to which he But though he had supported the Bill, it did not fol• had alluded, and afterwards, when he fell into the low that he was to agree in the fraudulent substitute company of the Noble Marquis and others, support a which his Hon. Friend wa, so anxious to censure; measure which gave additional salaries, and for only and the more especially as those offices were gene two years service. Now with a view that the Nation rally applied, not to reward useful services, but po might form some conjecture of the vast saving which litical prostitution—(Hear, hear).—He objected to had been effected in the course of five years, by a mea- the present Bill, because it enabled adventurers, who sure of economy which had emanated from the Great prostituted their talents in that House, to raise them. Council of the Nation, he should propose the follow- selves to the highest offices in the State, and after the ing Resolutions: ' lapse of two years to retire upon a pension tor life •' 6. That from the Returns which have been made to the He did not believe that the country would be a 14,ser House, of offices already abolished or regulated under the Act by the repeal of the Bill; for in that case the House last mentioned, and of pensions received under the Pension• Bill, would never agree to give £3OOO to such a man as the following appears to be the result of the contract between the Noble Viscount, nor the Clerkship of the Peas to the pensioners claiming under the Pension Bill and the public at large. up to the present period. In England, offices abolished, his son. The former, he thought, was just as much those of Clerk to the Warden of the Mint ; saving, Da los- calculated to fill the Ministerial situation he had lately per annum. Stamper of Weights; saving, 2501. per annum.— occupied, as one of the door-keepers of the House— Total saving in England in five years, 3421. 10s. In Scotland, .. I Hear, hear). It might become those who were the offices abolished, viz. Vice-Admiral, saving, 1 , 900 1 . per annum. , Inspector of Military Roads; saving, 2001. per annum. Offices supporters of the Manchester massacre, and the eulo vacant and subject to regulation, Lord Registrar in Scotland, gists of spies and informers, to praise the Noble late value 1,2001. but no saving returned. King's Remem- Viscount, but he could not consider it anything brancer's Office in Scotland ; saving returned, 5001. and the but an unfortunate selection, which had placed office of Teller of the Exchequer in Ireland, late value 1,3001. such a man in an o ffi ce of such high importance. per annum • but no saying returned. Pensions which have re ceived his ' Majesty's sign manual, under the Pension Bill, to The Honourable Gentleman next expressed his sur - Henry Lord Viscount Sichnciuth, 5,0001. per annum; and to prise at the ground on which the Hon. Member for the Right Hon. Henry Goulburn, 1,0001. per annum; the latter Corfe Castle had opposed the motion. He judged, pension being suspended by the Pension Bill, as long as Mr. from the. general conduct of the Hon. Member, that Gouiburn holds the office of Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieu of Ireland." he was 'a friend to reform fir little things, but an "7. That this House is of opinion, that had the offices of enemy to economy apd reform in matters of import ant to the Warden of the Mint and Stamper of Weights in ance to the country ; and he was of opinion that no- England, and the offices of Vice-Admiral and Inspector of Mi. limy Roads in Scotland, remained at the disposal of the Crown, body had done more than the Hon. Member to pre instead of being abo li shed, they would not ha v e b een conferred vent any real reform from taking place—( Hear). by his Majesty upon Henry Lord Viscount Sidmouth, as a re- Mr. B ANKES, in explanation, said, that the attack sompence for his services,.in the different high and efficient situ- made on him by the Hon. Member (Mr. H. G. Ben ' ations which he has held, and that even if they had been all so net) with respect to Reform, was most unfounded. -- conferred upon Lord Sidmouth, their united profits are very infer rior in amount to the pensions he now receives as a compensation The lion. Member had said that he (Mr. Bankes) was for the loss of them. That it appears, moreover, by a docu- a reformer in little things, but an enemy to every ment lately laid before the House, that in the year 1812, Henry kind of reform or economy in matters of importance. Lord Viscount Sidmouth, being then First Commissioner of He would appeal to the whole course of his Parlia his Majesty's Treasury, did grant to his son, Henry Addington, the office of Clerk of the Fells, in England, of the annual value m entor conduct against such an insinuation, which, of 3,0001. and that Lord Sidmoutb or his family have received in justice to himself, he must term false. the profits of such office for twenty years, although Lord Sid- Mr. H. G. BENNET said, that with every possible mouth, during a great portion of such time, has held different contumely, he returned the term " false" in every offices of great emolument under the Crown; that the office of Clerk of the Pens was, at the time it was last granted, and is sense in which it was used by the Honourable Mem now, an office executed entirely by deputy; but by one of the her (Mr. Bankes). Acts of regulation, before referred Up, the duties of such office The Marquis of LONDONDERRY could not at some future period are to be performed by the principal in avoid repelling with indignation some of the state person. So that Lord Sidmouth, or his family, receive at pre meats he had heard from the Hon. Gentleman who sent 5,0001. per annum as the profit of this office without being subject to any regulation whatever, and Lord Sidmouth introduced the motion, and the Honourable Member receives a further sum of 3,000/. per annum, as a compensation for Shrewsbury. -He had never listened in an as for some injury which it is presumed some other person may sembly of Englishmen to sentiments so revolting to sustain by some future regulation of this office, when Lord Sid mouth's interest or that of his family t h er ein s hall cease." the general feeling of the House. The Honourable Member said he could only find disgust and cor -He did not wish to go out of his wa y to sa y an y ruption in the operation of the BilL Mr. Burke had thing uncivil of Lord Sidmouth , but h e believed the greatest admirers of the-Noble Lord would admit recommended the retention of offices as the means of that he was not likely to enjoy a more last in g or dis- rewarding merit, but it seemed those offices had been tinguished place in history than Lord Godol p hin or abused in the application, and the Bill which the House was called upon to repeal, was introduced. Lord Chatham. ' Yet both these Nobl e Lords onl y condescended to take one pension, and that from clue The Honourable Member had represented the Bill as Crown. He supposed Lord Sidmouth rec eived his accomplishing all the work of corruption, and then 'them pensions too from the Crown, although one o had lavished all the malevolence of his mind against would seem to have been conferred by himse lf-- (4 L his Noble Friend the late Secretary of State. The laugh). He should now propose the final Res o lu tion : Noble Marquis was not surprised the Hon. Member " s. That this House is of opinion, that for the House of never would forgive his Noble Friend for his cone Commons to provide Pensions for the principal Servants of the scientious service to the country. During the most Crown, by Committees of its own, and without any application difficult of period our history that Noble lord pro from the Throne for such purposes, is an Interference with the totted the country and surmounted the danger. He just prerogative of the Crown-.era abuse of that power over the public money, with which this House is intrusted by t he knew his Noble Friend never could be forgiven by Constitution—and an intolerable grievance to t h e People; and the Hon. G ent leman, because he made them fed that this grievance is still further aggray.ted by that new what the hand of Government was able to doe-. and degrading principle of the Pension Bill, which Compels His Noble Friend had been mentioned in the most tlic Pcople to purchase from the Servants of the Crown every abolition or regulation of a useless or 0 vtiraitl offige..— disgustiog lffidllgers awl tinted WPM Liitail a • „. • '• That after alt the aiediletekubkLiame boaLtaaile by. the great and of kingdollffi, and under all that j an Whit which* great portion of such popu- is it puma Abated. they are entitled. to demand, as a matter aright and justice, and pot of purchase, the abolition j and regulation of every useless and overpaid office in the State ! whatsoever; and that, in conformity,to all such just and reason- ' able claims it is th e o pi n i on o f thi s H ouse t h at t h e Mi n i s terial IPension Mil of the 57th of his late Majesty, e. 65, ought to be repealed forthwith." I,,awyers, they . wo4l l , &WI I4 .Carr with Ahem comme ntaries upon the_gtseapons whic h they em braced, that would remain the greatest monuments o f legal learning and of legal understanding— (Cherrs).—He confessed that there was one of the source of complaint which undoubtedly did exist.— The very high confidence and veneration with which the country looked up to the talents of the present holder of the Great Seal, induced a general wish to h iv e his judgment upon all causes, and from that feeling there was unquestionably a larger proportion o f A p p e als. That was an evil of such a nature, That he earnestly hoped it would be long, very long, be fore it was removed—( Hear, hear). Mr. TAYLOR shortly replied. In original causes the Vice-Chancellor sat for the Chancellor, whose la bours were withdrawn from his own proper Court.— Ile must move for a Committee, and then he should bring in his Bill. The opinion of the Great Seal could only be obtained at double the expense that it was before the appointment of the am Court.—The House then divided: SI - 108 Majosity - —ST MINISTERIAL PENSIONS. Mr. CREEVEY rose to submit his promised mo tion. He was aware that at that late hour he la- For the Motion Against it bowed under a considerable disadvantage in bring ing forv►ard this important subject. When last he Nil the honour of addressing the House upon that quv,tion, he merely moved for some documents, which were to make the foundation of the ulterior proceeding which he now called. upon the House to conAder, namely, the propriety of repealing the Bill commonly known by the name of the Pension Bill. He knew that when be called upon the House to adopt a measure which went to take away 42,0001. :-year from the Administration of. the day, paid in pensions, he imposed upon himself a most difficult task ; but so fortified did he feel in the unparlia rientary, nay, iniquitous character of that Bill, that was not deterred from taking the sense of the louse upon it. His allies upon the occasion should be public opinion through the publicity of their pro ceedings and the forms of Parliament, and he was confident that even though he should be left in a minority of twenty to-night, yet ultimately that Bill would be erased from their Statute Book. The course he meant to propose was, to submit certain Resolutions, containing the facts upon which the Ilouse were to decide, and when these facts were in ere t h ul eof Resolutions, and before the Public, they would be able to form an opinion upon them. it would, pothaps, save the time of the House, as yell as trouble to himself, if he should tale the Re s-Ilutions as his text, and remark upon them as be' went along. The first Resolution was— Resolved—" That it appears to this House, by an Act passed in the 57th year of his late Majesty, c. 65, that a sum of 6::,000.'. per annum is charged in perpetuity upon the Consoli dated Feud, to be divided in pensions among certain persons who •ul have held certain public offices under the Crown for certain poiod. of time, via. six pensions of TOOOL per annum each, to such persons as shall have held the offices of First Corn intssioner of his Majesty's Treasury, or one of the principal Secretaries of State, or Chancellor of the Exchequer, or First Lord of the Adnu ralty, for a period of not less than two years in the whole, either uninterruptedly or at different times. One other pension of 50001. per annum to any person who shall have held any of the last-mcntioned offices, without being subject to any limitation or restriction whatsoever, as a duration of service. Three pensions of 20001. per annum each, to such persons as shall have held the offices of Chief Secretary fur Inland . , or Se cretary at War for any period not less than five years in the whole, either uninterruptedly or at different times. Six pen s:xis of 1,500/. per annum each to such persons as shall have 'rid the 'Zees of one of the Joint Secretaries of the Treasury r First Secret:xi of the Admiralty, for any period not less :::an five years; and six pensions of 1,0001. per annum each, to •-•ch pasons as shall have held the offices of the Under Secre •:..i.s of State, Clerk of the Ordnance, or Second Secretary to ::.e A.ltniralty, for any period not less than ten years." Toe second Resolution referred to the pretence upon rhich the Act was founded, and was as follows : " 2. That it appears by the preamble of the last-recited Act, ' that such sum of 42,0004. per annum is provided for the different par,uos therein named, on account of, and as a compensation for, the abolition and regulation of differeut public offices by other Acts then and there passed, and which will deprive the Crown (as therein stated) of part of the means by which his Majesty had been heretofore er.abled to recompense the meritorious services of 'persons holding, or who have held, high and efficient pub uffices." Hitherto it was for the Crown to find out the me rits of its servants, and the House of Commons was a ; )plied to in order to enable the Crown to confer re. wards where they were clue. But by this Bill a dif ferent course was pursued, for the House of Commons took the power into its own hands, fur which reason he should p:opo , e the following Resolutions: " 5. That although the said Act of the 57th of his late bajesty, c. 65, professes in its preamble to supply the Crown with new means of recompensing the services of persons bolding (or who have held) high and efficient public offices, no application from the Crown for such new sources of patronage, by message or otherwise, to this House, is to be found upon its Journals; tha.. the said Act appears to have originated solely from a Select Canenittee of this House, and which was partly composed of perzens who, from their official situations, would themselves be come entitled to the pensions created by the Bill ; that this Select Committee was appointed in the year 1817, during the pressure of great public financial distress ; that the sole object of its ap pointment (as appears by the Journals) was to examine into the public revenue and expenditure of the country, and more espe- ' cially to ascertain what relief could be afforded to the People by the reduction of such expenditure • that this Committee, never theless, so appointed and so comp osed, did, in their first Report, recommend the creation of this new and burdensome Pension Fund upon the People, fixing, at their own discretion, upon such persons who were alone to possess it, and in what proportions, and leaving to his Majesty the authority of his veto only in the last resort over pensions thus created by his servants in favour of themselves." " 4. That antecedent to the Act of the 57th of his late 3lajes'y, c. 65, it was unknown to the Laws and Constitution of this kingdom, that the abolition and regulation of useless or overpaid offices were to be purchased and paid for by pensions front the Public, to persons holding high and efficient public offices; that the power of the Crown to dispose of its revenues Sr. favour art the subject has been greatly abridged within the lass' two centuries, without any claims for compensation by pen sions being made irons the persons who then held high and effi cient public elfices; that various useless and overpaid offices have abolished and regulated during the same period, particularly by the Act of the 23d of his late Majesty, c. as, whereby differ ent offices of considerable emolument in his Majesty's F.xchea , mister were abolished, and others having profits to an enormous amount were regulated and reduced to a definite and compara: tively moderate value, but that no compensation by pension for such abolition and regulation was claimed by the persons who then held high and efficient situations." These were the facts on which he meant to proceed. This gave him air opportunity of remarking on what had been said fry the Noble Marquis opposite, on the debate relative to Ambassadors' pensions. The Noble Lord was then very high-minded—(A laugh).— " What!' says he, " would you dis-vi;our the Mo narchy by going into the Committee?" He (Mr. Creevey) was at a loss to know how the Monarchy could be more dis•vigeured Limn by the 'procectli.iss .... .: . t .n pared ._ _ __ and Fox, but it was no disparage ment not to tise to the talents of those great States... men ; but his Noble Friend had given splendid proof of his gi eat ability. The question of the Peace of Amiens, and the subsequent triumph of the country., might be attributed to the wise measures of his Noble Friend. The very year afterthe peace of Amiens he provided £12,000,000 for the public service. The excellent administration of his Noble Friend greatly contributed to raise the triumph of the country.--: The Hon. Gentleman had endeavoured to wound his Noble Friend in a quarter which all who knew hint would say was impregnable. No personal interest had ever Unelected with his Noble Friend's duty.— ' When he left the Chair of that House, which he filled twelve or thirteen years, nothing could induce him to look at his private interest. His Majesty was recom mended to grant him a provision commensurate to his services, but his Noble Friend peremptorily in sisted that no provision whatever should be made for him while he was engaged in the hazardous affairs of the country. The King had issued his commands for a Message to be brought down to that House to reward the services of iris Noble Friend, as Speaker of the House; but his Noble Friend had desired that it might not be done.— The Hon. Member (Mr. Creevey), for purposes best known to himself, had referred to a paper on the table which recalled the afflicting domestic circumstantes in the family of his Noble Friend, although in his (the Marquis's) opinion there was not the slightest necessity for such a recurrence with any view to the Hon. Member's argument. His Noble Friend had filled the offices of Speaker, Prime Minister, and Se-. cretary of State; the latter in a period of ten of the most critical years in the history of the country.— And this was the individual who was to be grudged the reward of his long services, and in respect of whom a charge was to be brought against the Crown for doing that which it had been empowered to do by Parliament—(Hear, hear, hear).—He really felt that he was abusing the patience of the House in enlarging upon such a subject ; but.he could not, with satisfac tion to his feelings as a Gentleman, refrain from thus noticing the speech of the Hon. Member for Shrews bury a speech he believed to be the most disgusting and disgraceful ever uttered within the walls of a Bri tish Parliament—( Cheersfrom the Treasury benches). Mr. BROUGHAM rose and said—" I protest, Sir, against the tone and language in which the Noble Lord has presumed to address a Representa tive of the People in this House—(Loud cheers from the Opposition side).-4 protest against the principle of this language; and I am surprised how any Mi nister should dare—(Loud cheers from the Opposition, re-echoed from the Ministerial side. In the midst of the contending cheers, which laded for some minutes) The Marquis of LONDONDERRY rose to order, and said—" When any Hon. Member uses the word dare,' as applied to any remark made by any other Menher in the course of a preceding speech, I NS prehend it is quite incon-istent with the order of Par liamentary proceedings —(Cheers repeated on both sides). It the term is applied to any observation used by me, it is irregular ; for at the time of making a remark which could call for such in expressicai, the Hon. and Learned Member's Laity was to have in terrupted me, and called for the ohjectioriable words iu order to have them taken down, that the sense of ,he House might be taken on them. The Hon. and Learned Member has neglected to do so, and I now ap peal to the Chair whether he is regular in the expres sion he has used ?"—(Cheers, and cries of Lhair, Chair). The SPEAKER.—" As 1 ani appealed to by the Noble Lord, I must say, that it would not be con sistent with the usual practices of debates it I we. e to interrupt Hon. Members in the use of expressions which may be interpreted with two meanings.-one of which would not be against the rules of debate. Un doubtedly, if the use of the word " dare" were to be interpreted in the sense in which the Noble Lo: d takes it, it would be quite disorderly ; but the House will allow me to say, that the term is one which is fre quently used in debate without any offensive intention on the part of the Member speaking, and'no ir.teirup tion is given. lf, in the heat of debate, many ex pressions drop from Members which may not !nut the most minute investigation, I trust the House o ill not think it neglect in the Chair not to call to order.— The reason is, that on such occasions the Chair would make that an offence which most probably was never intended—(Cheers). I apprehend that if the House has attended to the debate, they will recollect that the expre s sion used by the Honourable Member (Mr. Bankes), in allusion to what fell from the Hon. Mem •ber for Shrewsbury (Mr. H. G. Bennet), was used in the warmth of debate, and without any intention of personal offence, and that the reply given to it by the Honourable Member for Shrewsbury was of a similar character. This was the reason why I did not call to order at the time, because I conceived that the words were not intended to give offence, and therefore the interruption would be unnecessary." Mr. BROUGHAM," Sir, I should bow to the de cision of the Chair, if given against me, with the same respectful deference that I would now return thanks for its decision in my favour, if, indeed, thanks could be required for the performance of a duty. Every man who heard the expressions I used, in reply to the extraordinary language of the Noble Lord, must have taken it in the same sense in which you, Sir, have taken it—that it was not meant offensively to any Member. If the Noble Lord's ingenuity had not dis covered it (which I excuse) his experience at least in Parliamentary matters ought to have taught him that the term is appliel, and has been applied again and again, without any personally offensive intention. I, Sir, used the term when I heard a Minister of the Crown presuming (for I must not use a harsher word) to charge a Representative of the People with using language disgusting and disgraceful; but I will re.. peat the sense of the term, though it may not be per• mitted to use the sound—that whether it be pre. suming, or venturing, or pleasing (for to such critics of words I will give the whole vocabulary of the English language, such as it is understood by those who speak it, and by him who does not, and I w ill give him his own vocabulary into the bargain) and I will say, that in this House no man ever before heard a Minister of the Crown using snai epithets at 66 diaguatiag" and " disgrace - A" as applied lie d the ob. , • door-kges:r the tioneg-Afimr i horrk.4falt:, , ,Tue r , Hon. r must have. known his Noble raretid did not *sive the Chair front any Wish ofbis owns he was indtieed to take a part in ere Government from a sense of public duty. His Noble Friend had Leen compared with Pitt and Fox, but it was no disnarace- y! ~ .i