Star. — London, England, 1810-12-20 00:00:00

PARLIAMEIVTARr PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF LORDS, DECEMBER 19. The House met a few minutes before four. THE KING'S ILLNESS. ,After a short interval Earl SPENCER rose, and observed, that he wished to ask a question of the Noble Lord opposite, cr of any other of his Majesty's servants, with respect to the course of proceeding it was intended to propose on the present melancholy emergency. He was aware that he was irregular in thus asking a question, as to the course of proceeding before the Report of the Committee appointed by the House, to examine the Physicians attending his Ma jesty, relative to his Majesty's state of health, was laid before the House ; but as it would be a great con veaience to many Noble Lords to be informed of the ; n u de of proceeding which it was intended to propose, • he trusted he should be excused for thus asking the question. The Earl of LIVERPOOL was aware that it would be a great convenience to many Noble Lords, from circumstaeces arising out of the present season of the year, and other considerations, to be informed of the mode of proceeding it was intended to pro pose, and he had no objection to satisfy the Noble Lord upon that head. It was the intention of his Majesty.'s servants to propose Resolutions upon the two branches of the subject which must now fall un . der the consideration of the House. The first related to the defect in the personal exercise of the Royal Authority, and ,to the mode of supplying that defect, if the House;should be of opinion that it was necessary to proceed to fill up the personal exercise of the Royal Authority ; and the second to the regulations, which it might be deemed expedient to adopt, relative to such exercise of the Royal Authority. Upon the first branch of the subject, it was intended in the. Resolu tions to be proposed to adhere strictly to the prece, • dent of 1788 and 1789, that being the course which in his opinion was in strict conformity with the history of the country, and with the Constitution. It being the course pointed out by the Constitution, it must be the same at all times, and therefore, the mode of pro ceeding intended to be proposed would be the same as ,ie 1788. With respect to the second branch of the subject, the regulations fit to be adopted respecting the mode of exerctsing the Royal Authority, that was a question of expediency, and the course of proceeding .IrlSt beliable to variation according to the alteration of circumstances. He must,: therefore, decline stating more precisely what course of proceeding upon that part of the subject it was intended to propose. Upon the former branch of the subject there could be no difficulty in stating an intended strict adherence to the precedent of 1788. With respect to the time, their Lordships would have observed by the votes of the House of Commons, that to-morrow was fixed upon by that House for the consideration of this subject. If, there fore, there was any probability of that House having any communication to make to their Lordships' House by Saturday, he should propose that their Lot dships should meet on Saturday for the purpose of receiving that communication. The discussion of that commu nication, from the circumstance of Tuesday being Christmas day, could not conveniently take place on Monday ; he should have no objection to Wednesday, tint understanding the succeeding day would be more convenient to several Noble Lords, he should propose Thursday for the discussion. Earl SPENCER was obliged to the Noble Earl for his explanation. He was not sure that be perfectly understood the Noble - Earl as to the proposed mode of proceeding, it was, however, evident that the three . Resolutions of 1788, were intended to be the basis of the Noble Earl's propositions. He could not avoid, therefore, saying a few words upon this subject, and in order to avoid the irregularity of which he should otherwise be guilty, he intended to conclude by moving that their Lordships be summoned for to-morrow, when the Report of the Committee, it was understood, was to be presented. He was anxious to put in his claim now, although it might be considered premature to discuss the subject at this time, in order that it might not be imputed to him, or to other No ble Lords who entertained similar opinions with him, when the discussion came on, that they liailacquies ced in the mode of proceeding intimated by the Noble Earl. A t the period of 1788 he was a much younger Member of the House, and took no part in the pro -eceding,. of that time, except by his vote and his pro test against the measure then adopted. All his ex perience since, all that he had read, and all that he had derived from conversation from others, had only tended to confirm him in the opinion which he then entertained. It was his firm conviction now, as it was Then, that the measure then adopted was one of the greatest breaches in the Constitution that had ever been made ; and he thanked GOD that that measure bad never been carried into effect. A delay highly censurable had already taken place, a delay of no less than seven Weeks, and not a moment ought to be lost in supplying the defect in the personal exercise of the Royal Authority, the melancholy fact of the sus pension of which must be unhappily established by f 1 a Report of the Committee. To proceed as the s - ioble Lord had intimated, by a legislative mea sure , was, he contended, contrary to the Constitution, inns- , much as they ought first to supply a third estate, the exercise of the authority of which was now unhappily ' suspended. To supply this defect in the personal ex ercise of the. Royal authority, at a crisis like the pre- : teat, wipe moment ought to be lost. He trusted that then. Lordships would consider the subject with • - the most anxious attention, and that the course which the COirciustiOn pointed out would not in this instance be cle*ted i r TQUI. to the great and essential injury of the Monarchy.. His Lordship concluded, by moving that the Lords be summoned for tomorrow. Lord GRENVILLE rose and observed that he , thought his Noble Friend (Lord Spencer) was by no means premature in the observations which he had submitted to the House. He differed indeed with him on some points, and as it was probable that he might be absent to-morrow, he was anxious to take the pre fect opportunity of stating what were the leading sen- Vments of his own mind on this moa important and interesting occasion. The House ihtd now to pro ceed, to the discharge of a most solemn duty—one . which be must:still contend they ought to have di:. charged it a much earlier period. If, as he much feared, the representations which bad gone abroad should be confirm_ e_ d_ by the Report of the Committee, • on the Journals of the House with whic.h the kingdom is then, atter establishin g c 'slit fact of that calactuty • 'visited, there would be, as the Noble Earl opposite (Liverpool) had justly said, two questions, per fectly distinct in their nature, submitted to their con sideration. The first was, as to the right and duty of the two Houses, representing the Estates of the Realm, to proceed to supply the defect in the exer cise of the Royal Authority; and the second rela ted to that course of proceeding which it might be deemed expedient to adopt, founded upon the pre vious decision of the first. And before he went farther, he begged leave to correct an error into which his Noble Friend he was sure inadvertently had fallen, in calling the Sovereign Power of this country the Third Estate of the Realm. He had heard this expression with the more concern, for it was an error which was too prevalent, and which, in his opinion, had a ten dency to misrepresent and degrade the Monarchy:— The Nobility, the Clergy, and the Commons, re presented in Parliament, were the Three Estates of the Realm, and the subject' of the Sovereign Head, the King. The Noble Earl (Liverpool) had de clined to give any statement, or to describe a ge neral outline of those subsequent measures which it was the intention of Ministers to propose in the present critical exigency of public affairs. His No ble Friend conceived the day fixed on by that Noble Earl too distant, and creative of unnecessary delay. But although he thought, and must ever think, that the time which had been already suffered to elapse was connected with most culpable omission—with a dereliction of their duties, and almost a breach of the allegiance which they owed their Sovereign, he was not prepared to say, that the intervention of a few days, between receiving the Report and taking it into consi deration, was not necessary to give both dignity and efficacy to their deliberations. He was sure that the Report ought to be attentivelyread,and maturely con. sidered,before Noble Lords made up their minds to the adoptionof any measure founded upon that Report, and arising out of the evidence detailed in it. With respect to the course which, after recording the fact of the suspension of the executive authority on their Journals, it would be incumbent on that House to pursue, it was with pain that he foun !himself unable to concur with his Noble Friend. But notwithstanding those feelings, of which he was always sensible on differing with him, every principle of duty, and every suggestion of rea son, united to impose on him that disagreeable neces sity, and impelled him to declare his dissent from the doctrine which his Noble Friend had promulgated. More than 10 years had now passed since that period when he first stated his sentiments on this momentous question—many of them he had passed amid the active cares of public life, and others he had spent in, he trusted, not indolent retirement. He had since often and deeply considered the opinions which he had then avowed—he had regarded. them as affecting every possible situation of public affairs, and brought to their review all the aid which the light of reading and research could afford him. The result of this reiterated and unwearied application of his attention served not merely to confirm, but to strengthen to the utmost degree what had then been the persua sion of his understanding. He believed he pos sessed sufficient manliness to be superior to the false pride of obstinately adhering to opinions which he was conscious had been refuted or disapproved. No influence springing from recollections of this nature ; no bias arising from affection, (and he should be unworthy of the name of man-were he insensible of such an affection) to the memory of his departed friend, who conducted the precedent of 1788, world operate to deter him from openly retracting an erro neous sentiment, and from confessing the change which had taken place in the honest conviction of his mind, had such a change actually happened. Every argument, however, which he had heard, only tended to.convince him that it was by Legislative provision only, that any steps could be taken for supplying the defect of the Royal Authority, whenever such defect was regularly authenticated to exist. It was an es sential principle of the Constitution, that the political capacity of the Crown was always entire, and he could not perceive by what Constitutional rule the two Houses of Parliament could do anyact whatever with out the concurrence and exercise of that capacity.— This he felt himself bo:inci to declare as a Peer of Parliament, faithfully discharging the duty which he owed to his Sovereign and his Country—a duty which he sincerely regretted must cost him the pain of disa greeing with his Noble Friend. On another point, however, he fully concurred with him, in disapproving and condemning any intention on the part of Mini. sters of suspending the proceedings in that House, until those of the other House had been brought to any particular stage, or until come communication had been received from it. He would not, indeed, on the grounds which he had before stated, op pose the Noble Secretary of State in his proposal for the delay of a few days, one of those intermediate days being one which the Christian would rather de dicate to the offices of religion, than to any political 1 discussion s , h owever i mportant , f or h e h a d no o bj ec . 1 tion to re c ei ve a prev i ous communication from the Commons, on the subject, but he trusted that no far ther delay would be,recomrnended for such a purpose. He should consider such a proposition as an insult on the House, and an acquiescence in it to be no less injurious than degrading. As Peers of Parliament, it was part of their peculiar and most important func tions, to interpose whenever such interposition was called for, to preserve the integrity of the Kingly Office, and to defend the interests of the people. In the execution of this trust, he hoped that House would never be found consenting to arrangements that might seem to imply, or might truly imply, an incapacity to feel, or a reluctance to perform all the obligations which it so powerfully enjoined. The Earl of LAUDERDALE combated the chief position of his Noble Friend, which lie said was built on a distinction which he could never recog nize--the distinction between the political and the natural capacity of the Crown. He well knew that , this distinction had been antecedently laid down ,atut , highly appreciated by some lawyers of great reputa. non. He had no difficulty in expressing his opi. nion, that it vjrs a distinction without any solid basis, and partook much more of the nature of a quibble than a legal definition. He had not forgotten, that the quibble had been heretofore productive of the most in jurious consequences, that it had furnished the ground fur proceedings of the most desperate character.— It must be in the recollection of Noble Lords, that by means of such a distinction, the political capacity of the Crown had been formerly convferted to the purpose of making war in its natural capa. City.. Pre understood the Noble Lord to allude to the History of Charles the First:] The year 1788 he wished to remind the House furnished two precedents for the present occasion. The conduct of the Parlia ment in the Sister Kingdom appeared'to his mind be the most worthy of imitation, and every feature it. the character of his Royal Highness, the Prince of Wales, concurred to strengthen him in this opinion. He would nut protract the present conversation by dwelling at length upon these topics, as they would become the subject of future and, more ample discus sion, and should, therefore, conclude by remarking, that the awful situation of public affairs, and the im portant events which had occurred since 1788, called for a solemn review of all those arguments on which the decisions and measures of that period had been founded. The Earl of LIVERPOOL wished to be informed as a matter of convenience to many Noble Lords, whether it was intended to move any proposition to morrow upon the Report being presented ? Lord HOLLANco was not aware of its being in. tended to move any proposition to-morrow. Beint, upon his legs, however, he would just observe that he agreed with his Noble Friend (Lord Grenville) in the necessity of making a legislative provision, but con tended that they ought first to establish a reprelenta five of the Royal Authority, for the purpose of gi , ing a constitutional sanction to such legislative mea, sure, by the measure glanced at by his Noble Friene namely, an Address to his Royal Highness the Prince of Wales, to take upon him that authority. He would not, however, enter into the subject now, as he might go on to too great a length, and the discussion would be at present premature. With respect to the second Resolution of 1788, which it appeared to be the intention of the Noble Earl opposite to propose upon this occasion, he should feel it his duty to give it a direct negative, if, as he trusted would be the case, some Noble Lord did not move upon it the previous question. Earl SPENCER was merely anxious for himself and other Noble Lords, to lay in a claim, that • might not be imputed to them that they had ac quiesced in the proceeding, the intention of proposin i which had been intimated. This having been done, he had no intention of making any proposition to morrow. It would, however, ►e convenient to seve ral Noble Lords to know, whether the Noble Ear opposite would certainly move the resolutions which he had mentioned on Thursday, or whether his movini them depended upon any communication to be re ceived from the House of Commons. The Earl of LIVERPOOL replied, that he cowl, merely say, that it was his intention at present to pro pose some measure on Thursday. Lord GRENVILLE observed, that of course could not be foreseen what circumstances might oc cur in the mean time, but it would be highly desirable to know, whether the Noble Earl intended certainll to propose any measure on Thursday, or whether he intended to wait for any communication from the House of Commons ? The Earl of LIVERPOOL repeated that it was his intention to propose some measure on Thursda: Lord HOLLAND said, if the Noble Earl did n, propose some measure on Thursday, he (Lord Hot. land) should move an Address to his Royal Highness the Prime* of Wales, to take upon him the exercise - the Royal Authority. The Lords were ordered to be summoned for to morrow. The "Earl of LIVERPOOL wished, before the House separated, to mention that doubts had arisen, whether in the present state of the House, proxies could be received, he therefore, thought it would . ad►iseable to appoint a Committee to search for pre , cedents upon the subject, and intended to make motion.to that effect on Thursday. Earl STANHOPE thought it very strange that the Noble Earl should make the motion on Thursdal the day on which the question would arise whether proxies ought to be received. The Earl of LIVERPOOL observed, that if the precedent of 1788, which it was proposed to adhere to, was followed, by the House resolving itself into Committee on the State of the Nation, proxies could not of course be received. He had no objection, however, to move for the appointment of the Com mittee to-morrow. Earl STANHOPE said, the Noble Earl was aga. wrong, for how did the Noble Earl know, that the House would agree to all he proposed The Earl of LIVERPOOL gave notice of his , ml tion for to-morrow. Adioumed till to-morrow (this day.) INDIA HOUSE. Yesterday a Quarterly General Court was held at the East India House, when the Dividend for the last half year was declared to be 54- per cent. On the ,several motions of Mr.' L: JAC'Ettnit, which were se conded by Mr. P. MOonti the Resolutions of the Di. rectors, increasing Captain Sitl.tiaßieS salary, as Mi litary Secretary, from RIOOO to 41500 per annum, was agreed to, subject to the confirmation of another General Court. A Vote of thmtkswits.passed to the Students who have distinguithed themselves in the examination at Holybury and it W•aVresolved, that the future examination of the Writers giuleadets be in an open Committee of College and Seminary, in stead of an open Court of Director:. The Court ad journed at half-past two, rine die. Yesterday a Court of Directors was held at the - East India House, when the following Commanders took their final leave of the Court previous to depart ing for their respective destinations, viz. Captain T2I4IMA 3 H. Wuxi/46m, of the Cumberl an d ; an d Captain Iticuatto blisaar, of the' Essex, for Bombay and China. . The under-mentioned Captains were sworn into the command of their respective ships, viz. • Captain J. TWIDALZ, of the Perseverance, for China direct; and Captain J. JAMISON, of the General Stuart, for Madras and Bengal. The CHIFFONNit frigate, Captain Wantwamnr, sailed from Prince of Wales Island, 'with a convoy from Bombay, and with the trade from Penang, on the 15tb of June. She was afterwards to protect the Chinese trade from the insults of the Ladrone pirates. Her successful exertioriragainst the pirates in the Persian Gulph have given her a name for this necessary warfare, tot THE ARMY. he' __— Its The following were the posi tions ofd Alli e d ist. in Portugal on the 25th ult. Head -qua rters , to Jiivision at Cartazo ; Light division at and betel,, in about one league in front of Cartes° • 2d d• - 1 ' 9 ni non of other side the Tagus, supposed at Thu mp; am Is. ' +lanced in front as far as Abrantes ; 3d dis • ts — by Torres Vedras ; 4th ditto at Asambuca so t ( 1 -1 : Id cantonments on the left of Azambuca • et ch '44 ' ditto S. Alemquer, Brigadier VIII -General P ACE on the l e f t , -....---- g, leading to Santarem, branching off f rom the rn- road, and supported by Sir Verna.mee Easentes ed gade. The French mad e a reconnaisance oy - Or ch men in the direction of General PACE, a fe n To en since, but attempted nothing. Both po4tio ns 161114 2 1 said to be very strong, parti cu l ar l y i n the present . " 611-7 ed of the country. el° is, to-. NAVAL INTELLIGENCE. ................MMID E in - PLYMOUTH, DECEMEER ra. ume ng Arrived the Sandwich packet, Captain Sea , ' 11°1 he from America, last from Falmouth ; and the r he VOURITE sl.oop of war, from a cruize, with a sy nc' , In- vessel, her prize, which she captured yester ad :a- i ng , o ff t h e Li zar d . P ut b ack the Oestrus, w ith , .V- Supply transport, bound to Islilord, the wind has. . etudr, :a- come f ou l aga i nst ' t h em. The ENDYMION fri Id, w hi c h arr i ve d yester d ay evening, came from a he • ' —l4 - ce off the Coast of Ireland ; on her passage to thi s , , le she fell in with and took in tow, the chip Pen n , Fa he Greenock, RoniNsoN master, from St. John's, in Brunswick, with a cargo of timber for the Dock. he at this port ; 54 days passage, during which thee. be countered several very heavy gales: and when Abc Ise i ENDYMION fell in with her, s h e h a d l ost her rude. • side ve and received considerable damage, whi c h rendered .. ttend: se, unmanageable. The F r i en d s hi p cartel sailed ye w' 1 44 in us day for Morlaix, with anArnerican gentleman, char t h e Co with dispatches. sicians elf The PRESIDENT frigate, which brought home Is which, it cats BONAPARTE and his family from Malta, is a dcred Lc- dered to be fitted immediately, with all possible . Lor ng patch, for the East Indies. The MEDUSA was ord ~ said, I se, for the same service, b u t h as s i nce b een countermu -ideres 33- ded, and is to resume he r o ld cruising ground.. S re- Corunna. Several oth er f r i gates are ali - o order, thi s ele CO st arl for the East Ifidies, i n consequeace of the melanclia ch loss we have sustained i n that quarter. n g PORTSMOUTH, DECEMBER 19. *e " Arrived his Majesty's ship H AMADRYAD fTOM 0 - some , Westward.—Sailed, &folly:sr and ANTELOPE f or Pl y imPdr lid mouth ; LAVINIA and S TATELY f or t h e Medirmn edam In - nean ; Caocvs on a cr ui ze ; V ENGEUR f or off Cher Oove burgh ; and the SARPEDON for off H avre .— N. B. I. o f t h e it is expected the We s t I n di a fl eet w ill sa i l in th e m. . decla! )c- ing. Wind N. E. po i nt! bye DEAL, DECEMBER 19. neces 11 he Arrived Arrived the ROYALI S T slo o p o f war w i t h t h e F!• greanegndtAersr; ble, the privateerAventurier, which s h e capture d l ast even .. nous off the French coast.—Sailed, his Majesty's . these GANGES fo;Portsmouth ; ROYALIST and PODUIGUI t 3 ras consequence of a signal b e i ng ma d e f or an enemy ' to jau opt ay sight ; also sailed several of the outeard-bound, . der m not , the convoy remains. Wind N. 01. decisi 1 YARMOUTH, DECEMBER 19. genes ess of Arrived yesterday, P. M. the CINIAMRS sloop word war, with a convoy from the Humber, and u Seas to- again this morning with th e s hi ps b oun d to t h e sr - of M ward ; also.arrived the CRACKER and KITE gun•brigt sem from a cruise ; the CRACICER is come ins port to relit. th e the Sailed again (having put back by strong westerly by b en, winds) the HEARTY gun brig, with Frencloprisones forts! :lei for Sheerness. Sailed also the Etat* armed ship, Lee• diffe be tenant Baawicec. Remain in the Roads the Roebuck, later re ' Partridge, and Magnet.- : -Wind N. W. Tole : a Parl GREENOCK, DEC. 17. tent Arrived here on Saturday, the Jean, Moffat, fins sat the River Plate, in 80 days. Saild in company Vec av to I • ' with the Iris armed cutter, Captain Bradford, on the ner 25th September. Met on the 26th the Charlton, was Smith, bound up the Rive r , w i t h a f a i r wind.—Arn. se a,, the ved here on Thu rs day t h e H azar d, A n d erson , f rom his `'"re Rio de Janeiro, in 72 days ; sailed from thence in am; ld pis, ) a company with the ship Ajax, H a ll, fo r London, and the Th parted with her the 34 October, Cepe Frio tiering NI P N.N.W. distant nine league s ; on t h e 20th tilt. hr. In - 26. long. 35. 30. spoke the B r i t i s h Q u een, Ormond'', o f 1 from London for out 24 days, all well; by tin on the 234, lat. 38. long. 36. spoke the brig Gam , he Grove, Samson, from Pernambuco for: London, out is 7, 24 days—parted with her on the 26th, all well. ter to- A vessel arrived at Virginia, from the Havannaht At ' reported, that 30 vessels were lost and 40 driven fet vr; shore at the Havannah, during a v iolent gale, which a 6 lasted from the 23d to the 26th of October. Ames; te the ships lost was the Friendship, of New York, with at 800 boxes of sugar on board. t o a t The Master and crew of the Experiment, Mourn te Est from London to Ireland, mistaking the Fumes gun. tk he brig 'for an enemy; deserted their vessel on Sunday d, f( ) 1: mGoooradiwrTillaLsitihottf..BTrohaedEstxapireer,imaenndtguo_at s o c n a l y :s ri oa e r d d ia th l ; yr ~ 11- Margate the following day. r n, The James, WrusoK, from London to Honduras , i er he S put into Lisbon in distress, on the 28th ult. Jas he sailed from the Down s on t h e I s t November, c d 0 6 1 1 ; at the West India convoy at Portsmouth, but was from be r b y e c v o e n n t t i ea nu , ebdygaletat tempestuous N. E . o ll t .e it a of tber th 7fr returning. Channel, and sess n- psl d- PRICE OF HOPS IN THE BOROUGH MARKET. . Bags Pockets 91. R. il he Kent SI. Ss. to 71. I.ls. Kent 61. Os. to ~ . , Ts Sussex 51. os . to 7 1. Os . S usstX SI. lOs. to . I a . ' 71- Farnham, Pockets, ‘ll Os to £l4 as. PRICE OF HAY AND sTK AW IN SMITHFIELD. _ ad Meldow Hay 71. es. m 101. 04. Rowin 61. Os to St 0 7 3a Clover el. 10s to 91. 9.. Straw 21- le" St be. COAL MARKET, December 19. Ships at Market Sold Prices. 46 ,, od• nSU ed. 35 Newcastle I St :t ; S bunderland •11 00.5000..: od etl ot . to o .0 59: ei: . la d 1 Yorkshi re 0 1 Cinders 0 T, BIRTH. )y Saturday, the Countess of Craven, of a sea. ....not —..--..„,.......,_=. m HIGH WATER AT LONDON BRIDGE TO-MORR OW Morning . 111 m i nute s after ; ne Aftentoeo es ---. 1:„ liS LONDON : P rinte d And pu bb a b e d b y LEVEL KLP I-1 :1 s " .. STAX.OPPICES, TlNOviejkX, and Ns it Orr