Star. — London, England, 1817-03-04 00:00:00

f'i'lch distinguished his private arid public life. The p !Mit character of Mr. Horner was more distinguished thin that of any man whom he had ever known, for its gegleness. He never exkillited any heat—never did a ny indiscreet warmth betray him into any ex. pret.ion wliich he might afterwards regret. His loss rill: L ear y loss to the country--.tolus friends it was irrepitAe• A . S VIIUEL ROMILLY.—Having had the ~IT • • i gTl3 ;l•-•%• of a long and moat intimate friendship with Mr. Homer, he was desirous of saying a few words on this most distressing occasion, as to hi s ‘ 7,, ces , n o t as a private but as a puhl c man. What b, (;ir Samuel) always considered insist valuable in 103, was the independence of b ib character. It was t \ l r injepentkoCe. sel.i.:ll, while he was storing his se a with information on all subjects of economy...a jobl.t and foreign politics—while lie was taking a Tut is u:e discussions in this Haase, made him, at the sane time, continue the painiul and laborious pr a ctice...t a profession in which (high as was his enaractir in it) be (Sir S muel) never thought his merits se.te sufficiently acknowledged ; and he con tinned the practice of his profession as a means of in ilvendence. (Hear, hear ) Within the last twelve Ices n o s house had suffered the loss of some of the greatest public characters that had adorned the country. But in the present loss there was something that ilistinguished it from the others. TM other great men vie. had been lost during the period which he raentiomd,h id attained the meridian of their fame and glory. But wl.cn he recollected how in each s...sces , ditig Jeo ,slop t! e . eloquence of his excellent hiend had acquired new force—how his mind had attained new powers—how his intellectual faculties I. +.l been improved, it was easy to see that he had not niched the distinguished station to which he was rapidly advancing. But eloquence, however distin guished, was in itself a subject of vain . admiration - it was the cad and object for which it was employe d that made it valuable. The enfranchisement of the slave—the relief of the poor—to extend the means of education, and the improving the condition of man kind—it was by devoting it to such objects that it became a public virtue. To these ends alone it was that that admirable man had applied those high riTers with which Heaven had endowed him.— (Hear, bear, rata al /tarts of the Hague.) Mr. W. ELLIOT.—Among so many others he could not deny himself the melancholy satisfaction of Inkling his humble tribute of esteem and affection to , the n.cm.ry of that excellent man, whose loss so tinily now deplored. His enlightened mind, his ex etllent talents, his admirable integrity, his sober zeal, Ins chaste eloquence, rendered him one of the greatest sir:mg/lents of this !louse, as well as of the profession to which he belonged, and a finished model to the , wising generation. The loss of such a man, at such si time, who ci.old attempt to estimate ? He had been withdrawn from this world at a time when his !merits were most deeply felt, though certainly not yet fully developed, and when his country had the reatest need of such eminent talents and integrity.— ( ( kering from all 'tarts of the Howe ) Mr. C. GRAN I', jun.—Having bad the gond fortut.a to know M r . Horner even before he had be come a Member of this House, he could not deny himself the gratificatioa oi adding one or two words to the ample testimonies of the virtues of that la xneuted man. It was pleasing to observe, that what ever diffc:snce of opinion might exist in the House on ordinary occasions, they could all lay them aside to unite ou a subject, in which, in common with the cousin), they had sustained so heavy, so irreparable loss. But it was not merely his talents, transcendent as they were, whidi commanded the admiration of tits House. If the first charm of his oratory was its ' philosophical spirit, its second charm was his lode. ruddier—his noble and exalted sentiments of virtue. If to these were added his private virtues, it would be agreed that the House never was called to deplore a loss more severe—( &aro Hear). However high his public virtues, those which he 'hewed among his friends and his family- were on a level with them— (Hear, hear, hear). Lord LASCELLES could not refrain from stating in public those ',clings of admiration and respect for the character of Mr. Horner which he had constantly expressed in private. He, in common wish all those who had spoken, telt that by his death, the country bad sustained a most extreme loss; and though, on the present question, the House could not be able to come to any decision on the merits of Mr. Hornet's character, yet he was sure, that if the sentiments of the House could be taken by a vote on that subject, it would.he quite unanimous.—(Ckeriegfrolo all lhou sills Bolue.)—The motion was then a g reed to. LOTTERY. Mr. LYTTELTON, seeing the Chancellor of the Exchequer in his place, wished to ask him a question, which it was necessary to put immediately. He had received information that notice was given on the Stock Exchange that it was the intention of the Chan cellor of the Exchequer to. contract to-morrow for a ace Lottery ? The Honourable Gentleman thought, from what took place last Session, and from the no tice of a discussion in this, that this measure was pre cipitate, and wished to know from the Right Hon. I Gentleman if the information he had received was correct ? If incorrect, the Chancellor of the Exche quer should disclaim it. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that nothing was in contemplation but what was ordered by the act of last year. PEAPKTY TAX. Lord STANLEY w ished to know whether it was iattrded to keep up the offices of Inspectors of the Property Tax, who had been appointed with salaries of £lOOO a year, when the Property Tax was raised to ten per cent? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in answer to the Noble Lord's question. begged leave to refer him to the Report of the three Coamussionere for tb.. reduction of Of f ices, which had lately been laid before the House, sad by which it appeared that all those Inspectors were to be reduced bath the excep tiou of three , sod the reason why *these three were to be &tin kept up would be loudd stated in that Report. ORDInt ON TUX BATH. Mr. BENNETT wished to know whether there //at not some mistake in the return made of the sums psid to Officers for fees on Orders of the Bath, as it aPPesred by the return that 12000 had been paid as the fees foe six Companions of the Vall i and the cc. turn of sum s p a id b y t h e Treasurer of the Nay was ell. He then moved that there be laid helots tbC House an account of the digtribntion of all sums' issued by the Paymaater-General, the Treasurer of' the Navy, or any other public department, to defray the expenses of fees on Peerages, or Orders of Kn;ghs hood, from February 1, 1815, to Sept. I'4 1816. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he hAd no obilction to the motion. He , ok it for granted that the return which had been oretented to the HOUlle WAS quite correct. The todioar ) f.es, as he underatiod, on the Otter of the Bids, were trim t3OO to £4OO. Al) these fees were Ito Oacers of the Navy in the same way As to Officers in the Army. rt*Ftle Mr. BROUGHA NI wished to ask a question rela tive to the Lisbon Commission for Auditing Public Accounts, the expense ot which altogether appeared to be about sfl7,(km or AlB,ooo,_ year. For two years ands halt its expenses were £-1.0,000, and the amount of Accounts audited was only abut al,(x)aou, which was an expense to the public of above in per cent. for the amount of Public Accounts audited.— At this rate, it the Lisbon Accounts amounted to fifty millions, the expense rf auditing there alone would cost the public abc‘ttt two millions. The first item iti the Account was the S Clary of the Auditor- General of this Cornmision, which was sirS,ooo a year ; and it was stated that he received under the Act of the 461 ot the King 81,5100 a-year. and XIV for house rent. He wished to know if the sa:ary of el,::00 was to be continued during that Officer's stay at Lisbon? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER s that upon 'he face of the Account, it appeared that the Auditor-General received the whole of these allowances, which, considering the heavy expenses to hich he was subjected, was but jit,t. He admitted that the expenses of this Commission were great, but the advantages to the public service were propor tionably great. It was expected that the whole amount of the expense of this Commission, till its termination, would be about 5e1,000,600. Mr. CANNING said he was well aware of the dit. ficulties of getting through these most complex ac counts, and could bear testimony to the able way in which the Auditor-General, Mr. Dawkins, executed an invidious and most laborious office. Mr. BROUGHAM desired not to be understood as saying one word against Mr. Dawkins, whom he understood to be a must deserving public officer. Mr. BARING bore testimony to the ability with which Mr. Dawkins executed the duties of his office, and spoke highly of the utility of this Commission. bEDITIDVD sizaTlNCis The SOLICITOR-GENERAL ro e to move the second reading of this Bill. and said that those who were satisfied from the Report of the Secret Com mittee that extensive and dangerous conspiracies and combinations existed, would be setistied of the neces sity ot such a Bill, The oniy Meetings which it was Litendeu to prevent were such as had not the sanction of a certain number of Magistrates, and which were not convened according to certain forms, which the Bill would prrscritie. The Bill permits a Meeting to be demanded by any seven householders, who ate to give in their names, that it may be known who they are. The Learned Gentleman explained the other regulations of the Bill, which went to prevent the propounding of any seditious matter at any such Meetings, and which would cause the persons whti propounded it to be taken up. He proceeded to strew that there was the same necessity for the Bill -now as in the year 1796. He should propose ad ad ditional clause for preventing Meetings demanded byl seven householders from being adjourned, in order that there might be proper notice given of every Meeting as an original one— (Hear. lost, hear.) — This would prevent large bodies of people from being kept in a state of fancied contiguity, if be might so call it. The object of the therefore, was not to touch any fair and legitimate Meetings, but only to pre vent or check such as were of .1 mischievous tendency. Another object was, to prevent Debasing Societies, or rooms for reading Newspapers—(f/w, Istar,)— th. keepers of *lrish receive money. This was the purport of the law in 1796 ; hut winch being found ineffectual, was amendedin 1799. But as the regu lations respecting these rooms were contained in the 36th of the King, when that Act expired, that of the S9:11 expired al,o. The second object of the Bill was, therefore, intended to unite the intentions of the two Bills just alluded to." It was not intended , to make these regulations perpetual, but only temporary; namely, for three years, and to the end of the then next Session of Parliament. The statute of 1799 had tor its object the suppression of certain societies spe cified by name, and others constituted in a particular way ; such as those that administered oaths and tests, or those which had branches and delegates.-- But that statute did not touch the great evil of cer tain societies of the present time, such as those for inducing people to commit acts of insurrection against the Government, through the means of what they called delegates, committees, or missionaries, to con fer nith other societies. Thew were to be declared unlawful combinations, and the object of the Bill was to prevent the evils that arise from them. Another object of the Bill was, to suppress the Spencean So cieties, whose principles were totally incompatible with any civilised state of society, or any regular system of government. The same exceptions in the 49th of. the King, respecting the Lodges of Free. masons, &c. would be admitted in the reseal Bill. In fact it was not intended to affect any societies but such as were evidently constituted for the purposes of mischief, having in view the overturning the Govern ment, and destroying whatever matt holds VAlltable in society. Mr. YONSONBY expressed his willingness to post-' pone the full discussion. Of this measure to the future stages which would be presented in the Committee, and on the third reading. It was not easy to under stand the precise nature of such a measure at'present, oompounded as it was of the acts,'erith several new addiuttas. certainly wan not swath of any 'ob jection to the'proilsion with regard to the seven house- Holders t and 'did not thilik it could operate so as to interfere, injurioostr with the constitutional right of the subject to 'inlaid the Legislature for a redress of grievaUces:' Ile should deem it his ditty, however, to offer some suggestions on other parts of the Bill in the . Cortimittei s after Which the principle would be bitter understood, and Might be diluted , on the third reading..* In' the mean time, he would call the linen dad of thy Honourable and ' Learned Gentleman to two clauses in the Ac: of 1799, one of which was, in his opinion, calculated to do good, by inducing those who had been mistaken to retire from those societies 'pins• which the law was Row tor be directed. H th..ught also, another clause, iirst;tiog the period within which actions, against Magistroites Mr their cond , oct under this Act could be brought, might be very pro p:Hy advted. The Bill, he must likewise observe, 4s it stood at present, appeared to him to be very loosely worded. Mr. CALVERT stated, that a most respectable and numerous meeting of the irhabitatits cf South werk had just taken place, for the purpose of peti tioning Parliament against the suspension of the Htbeas Corpus Act fbut.fieding that it was om late to adopt this proceeding, the Bill having been already read a third time, they had determined, without one dissenting voice, to petition the. House against any further encroachments on the Constitution--( Hear.) Under these circumstances, and agreeing entirely with the unanimous vote of his constituents, lie must feel himself constrained to take the sense of the Hoose upon this early stage in the progress of the measure. Sir FRANCIS BURDETT, although he felt no desire to anticipate the discussion. which might be taken with more advantage perhaps on a subsequent occasion, felt it right to declare, that he should oppnse the principle. as contrary to the conditions stipulated for the Subject in the Bill of Rights. With regard to the propriety of putting down Political Clubs, he. felt satisfied that the measure was resorted tai merely lin consequence of the numerous Petitions which had been received on the subject of Parliamentary Remit). Nothing was more common, when a public grievance was pointed riot, than to say, the public make no complaint of it. The Public do, however, •it last complain pretty loudly ; but he did not think that their voice on that account ought to be stifLd. it appeared to him, that if the Government were con. scions of acting with integrity towards the People, they could nut feel so much alarm at any expressvii of the popular voice. There were not less than GOO Petitions on the Boor, and he believed there never was an instance of a people displaying so much pa tience, good order, and obedience to the laws, under the pressure of so much distress. Their conduct took away every pretence for infringing the Constitution ; and he was surprised that the absurdity of the Spen cean doctrines did not render Gentlemen ashamed of expressing any apprehensions from such a Calif!. Lord W. RUSSELL conceived it to be his duty, as a representative, bound to defend the purses and liberties of his constituents, to enter his protest against the present measure. He would elite' fully give to the Government all tke recurity that was vinsisteut with the principles of the Constitution; but he con sidered that the House had already, by suspending the law of Habeas Corpus arid trial by Jury. give". them as much power as pie Romans gave to a dicta- tor, when they directed him to provide ne gaud resta lira detriment; capiat. The Hon. Mr. LAW contended, that the Bill, in stead of taking away the right of petition, gave the right of free discussion. He could nut but observe, however, that it contained no provision to hieder Meetings from being held in places very near each other on the same day. Such a clause, he thought. would be very desirable, in order to prevent combi nations which might distract the attention of the Ma gistrates, and of the civil and military force of the couniry-eee. hearen thellopaitiee.) Sir JO HN NEWP ORT said, that in passing a law of this nature, the House should have under their consideration every provision intended to be intro duced, and not leave it to a period when they could not go into the discussion. The Bill seAs now in a very imperfect state, and, therefore, he should nor pronounce his opinion on it till he saw it amended in the Committee. Qn this ground he gave his assent to the second reading. Mr. CA Lvetur then said, that not wishing to set up his own judgment against the opinions of both sides of the House, he would not insist on a division. Some conversation took place between Mr. BIN NET, Lord CAsTLIIIZAOH, and Mr. Cocoas', respect. ing the going through the committal of the Bill then Aro forma; but on the suggestion of Lord Came iteacit, Use committal was fixed far to-morrow.. . Mr;BENNE 1' adverted particularly to the Clauses of the Bill that related to Reading Rooms. It would be' a must harsh measure to interfere with the inter. cinitse and cammuoication these places afforded. In the town which he had the honour to represent there was such an establishment for the conveaience of the inhabitants, and though he suspected the conduct of his Majesty's Ministers was rather sharply canvassed there. yet he should hope, that would not operate to deprive the people of the convenience which these rooms afforded. With respect to the Preamble of the Bill, it was a gross libel on the People of Eng land. It stated that as fact, whica every man who heard him, indeed the whole country, knew to be false—(Hear, hthr).—What said the Preamble ?.+. 44 Whereas Assemblies of divers persons collected for the purpose, or wider the pretext of deliberating on public-grievances, and of agreeing on Petitions, &c. to his Royal Highness the Ps ince Regent, or to either House of Parliament, have of late been made use of to serve the ends of factious and seditious persons, to the great danger and disturbance of the public peace. have produced acts of riot, tumult, and disorder, and may become the means of producing confusion and I calamities in the Nation." Now he begged to putt it to the House to say, whether the popuhr Meetings lately held in various parts of the country, were not remarkable for the quiet and ordetir demeanour of the people assembled I—(Hear, /star). —l' et this Bill called upon the House to pass a sweeping cond:intia uon against these Meetings. Sir M. W. RIbLEY rose and said, that he wished to have some explanation from the Attorney-General respecting the meaning and operation of that clause in the Bifls which, as it appeared to him, would pre vent persons from resorting to any rooms for the pur pose of 'reading books, pamphlets, and the daily jour odds. The words of that clause, as applicable to this particular subject, were es follows 1-4* And whereas divers places.have of late been used, under the pre team of being places of meeting, for the purpose 01 reading Books, Tracts, Pamphlets, Newspapers, or other Publications ; be it•enacted, that every house, room, or place, which shall be opened or used as a place of meeting for the purpose of reading books, paMplikts, newspapers , . or other publications, and to which any person shall be admitted by payment of money, or by any ticket or token of any kind, deli vered -in consideration of money, or other valuable thing, or in consegnence of paying, or givingi . .lo having paid or given, or h av i ng agree d to para. , . give any money or other valuable thing, or where. any m ner or In her, valuable thing skill be receilkdr from any person admitted, either under pretonce s Ott for any other cause, or by means of any device r contrivance whatever, chall be deemed a di:orderly holt:, or piste. unless theitame shall have been ously licensed, in manner hertinafter mentioned ;" —(that is to say, by a justice of the peace, tor which licence a fee Uf shall be paid) ; 14 and the person by whom such house, room, or place shall be opened or used for any of the purposes aforesaid, shall forfeit the sum of law every day rir time that such house, root's, or place, shall be opened or used as of eeseid, to such person as will sue for the same, and be otherwise pa. nished as the law directs in cases of dirord.die hews ; • and every person furnishing or delivering any book. pamphlet. newspaper, or other pubiicemin as afore. said ; and also every person who shall pay, give. collect, or receive, or agree to pay, give, collect, receive any money, or any thing for or in respect ef the admission of any person into any such houses room, or place, shad, for every such offence. Maroc the sum of " Now, as the Heeourehle Baronet read this clause, he conceived that it went to prevent persons from resorting to readieg rooms and circtilatine libraries, for the pu: pose of reading news. papas and books, which would I.c A mast us: warren. table oppression of the suhje:t. in in-: town in which lie livid there was a reaeling mom, which war fre. quently attended by the most respectable persons and yet, under this clause, the person who kept it, and the p irties who resosted to it, (laciest. iedeed. it were regularly licensed, which appeared to him to be a very arbitrary mode of collecting meney), (Hear) would be treble to be prosecuted. (itor, But this was not his only objection to this Bill; le objected to the preamble, which was a libel o.r the whole people of England ? It asserted that wh;en was not true; for he maintained, from all that he had seen or heard on the sterject, that in none of the meetings, held tor the purpose of petitioning, had any acts of riot, tumult, or dis rder tarn place. The riot in the hletrnpolis, on which the Sestet Committee had founded a great part of their Report, did not commence in Spefields, but was committed by some disorderly perverts. * whose object was totally uncon nected with the purposes fur which meetings had been celled in almost every part of the Kingdom— (Rect..) Lord cockittAN,g presented hitusett to the no. Lice of the H ruse in - ord:r to read an extract from a letter which he heti received trim a person at Glis gow, rel itive to the object fee wh;cli the meeting its that city had been held, and to she ar the manner is which sunie of the persons had betel treated. The postscript stated, e that it was merely the intention of the persons assembled to devise some method for procuring parochial re.iet, which was n ,t granted in that country in :he same inatwer .is in Ferglend."—. The Committee df Glasgow did. in the most so lemn manner, declare, that no Spencean societies had ever exist t d iIY that City—nor bed they ever heard of the name of the Spenceans tie they read dein in the Newspaper."—(blear, hear, and a kosh ) " One Gentlenaan. however, a man ot reci-,et character. and a usefel mettte:r of society, had be,•n seized is his own home, at one o'clock ill the merit ing, whence he was dragged from his wile and ft. mily, and then thrown into a dungeon, where he lay on a damp floor for two nights. He was then met— mined, and nothing having been proved against him, he was liberated"—( Hear, laar.)—" Another G.eirlr. man had been treatee in the same manner, and wa s afterwards restored to liberty." The writer then obe served, that the reign of Terror had commenced, and that the people were exceedingly indignant at the at tempts to ensnare the unwary, which they conceived were made by the creatures of Government—(Hear.) It might be very convenient for Ministers to divert the public mind from the real interests of the c"un -try ; and he (Lord Cochrane) firmly believed, that the suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act, and other Bills. were be uglet in more for that purpose than irny other. It was nepassary, however, that the Pill then before the House thread undergo the strictest discussion before it was passed, and that reasons of a. weighty nature shesul s t be given for introducing it. Motives ought natein general, to be.imputed to ant . person in that House ; but they came with a ver y b a d grace from those who were the protectors of Co:- ruption—(lhae.) Mr. BARING would not object to this measure if a clear an 4 tlecided Case could he made out for its' necessity. He conceived, however, that ev,ry Gen. tleman in the House was as able to judge of ;he state of the country, as every Member of the Committee ; and, certainly, as far as his knots/L.4e tetteeded, there was no occasion whatever for invading the liberties of the people—( Wear, hear). He hid not the least doubt that some blespheelous publicatioes had been brought before the Commetee ; hut he could not for a moment believe rfrit such publications prevailed throughout le country. There ticetr was a time within his recoil, etion or reedine, when there existed a stronger religious fetling and veneration for those sacred subjects, tar detestation of which seerne id by the Report to be cone of the grounds of thrre proceedings. 'lies was a period in which entlinsiases seemed to have taken hold of the whets of mess, and disposition had sprucg up in the letver clesset to dive into unknowu mysteries, and to puzzle them selves with what they had better le4ve alnue—(tlear. hear, and a latch). As to the riot which lollowed the ,Meeting at Spa-Llis, a very inconsiderable part of the populether of the Metropolis hdtn frombeenc a v, e .d r on, o.- nd in i a t na ha v l e f ry a i d e n w joined zcnpeople them o n th e i r way • o c et e the City. With resreet to the Spencean Plan, he little t l h e e o saw th e the o Report; tlrder of been a Mr. Seetcv had oi : t en: t o h n a c e t h b e e h a teh r o d ken o ge f h,,.t. i it oe till and, even then. ii ho wrote a leemphleV4 few tears ago on Iteei . . commerce. Connecting die* circumstences t. g Thee, ee 'was decidedly' of - Oeftnittif that them had ht e.. very great eraggeration'ln the Appreheusions of the Cr in mittee, and of his Majesty's Ministers. He cceld rot but think, that all the plots or plans, or wierceiree they were to be called, might have beets pot d.%71, it left alone, with perfect security to the ceuntry--. (Hear, hear). It did not appear that there was any intention of opposing the Bill going into a Comm L AM and, therefore, foe should not deliver his opinions upon it Al present : but he could not suffer it to p its even thus Ur without St./60g; that jt contained some i