Star. — London, England, 1831-09-21 00:00:00

k ~. 1 9! J ~~ •1• fore their lordships. Now, with respect to the charge against he present Commissioners, he agreed in all that fell from eoble and learned friend in favour of these Commie s.:.s.a-s. His objection was not against them, but the system. Now the noble and learned Lord expressed his appreben. viols of the possibility of getting ten efficient men at the Coaneery Bar to fill the situation of Judges under this Bill. Ile would ask his Noble and Learned Friend if it was not eAsier to find ten efficient Judges than 70. being the num ber req dred at present. The mischief of the present system NJ% 11.. a the nu nber of seventy must be kept up, while the capacity es! those Judges was trot inquired into. The Noble isil Learned Lord here mentioned some instances of deci. • founded on the grossest ignorance of law by some of the present Commissioners; at the same time, he would say that, consideting the mode in which they were elected, the majority of th were unobjectionable. Whether there was a regalsr nunilser of bankruptcies, or a stagnation in trade, the nu:ssta r of Commissioners was always seventy. There was one notorious tvil attending the present system, is solely, that shere W.% one measure of justice before one Ino, and a different measure under another. It bad been a subject of discus-ion in the other 'tousle, sod also cont. piained of in the c• ucts cf justice. that one list of Coin s:: istioners com i.i•te.l as 'natty persons to prison as all the o•her lists of Commissioners together. He would take upon himself w sac, that there was not a dozen among the Cot.sns;ssiones3 capable of examining a stupid reluctant witness, and no Mime to them, for they were appointed the moment they stare into Westminster Hall ; in fact, when they acre tally boys. A person may be a very' gentlemanly man. at the same time a bad lawyer.— He no more blamed these young men for not being excellent judges. that. he blamed hi- noble friend for rot being capa ble of playing -sal on a fiddle. (Laughter.) Now with re gard to the patronage, he begged to say, that this Bill would rather diminish, than increase the patronage of the Great Seal, for, instead of the appointment of seventy Judges, the Lord Chancellor would not have the appointment of more tlitn ten. There was no part of the bill of which he more highly approved than that which provided for the appoint. Inent of official assignees. When he considered the amount of money at present in the hands of assignees, who were not hound to make an advantageous use of it fur the benefit of the creditors, he did not wonder at the clamour which was raised against the present system. With regard to the ex rents?, he begged to say that the present system cost the coon tty 36,0001. a year. while the proposed measure would not relit more than 19,0031. exclusive of the salaries of the otfi. cial assignees; perhaps the sem& establishment would cost 411,0001. a year, as stated by his noble and learned friend ; Lot even if it did, it would be a saving, for the working of the present system, cost at least 70,0001. a year. The corn. .r.: ye patronage of the two systems would prove greater in nie nresent practise, and the bulk of the patronage would c ihasinished and lessened by the proposed plan. The :Node and Learti:d Lord alleged that he (the Lord Chan .tslor) was increasing his own patronage. It was true that the Lod Chancellor had the power to appoint his family to sine-' ores as a . rovision. The Lord Chancellor Thurlow pro. tided fur the prescat members of his family by the distria Nation of sinecures. The bulk of patronage was cut off by 1.. c present measure from the Great Seal, and he would be l i n qsr;ved of the patronage (cheers). The merchants, bankers, I trailers, and the Common Council of London, approved, of the measure. He could not have ever imagined the idea of bringing forward such an important measure,l ithout having given it the most mature and constant deliberation. Patronage to the amount of 12,0001.1 u year would be abolished by this bill. It was . • that the present system was the best, because there sacs alt appal to the Vice-Chancellor. There was no end to tl!e swearing ; tad delay under the present law. He would talhere to the provisions of the bill, because he thought it absolutely reel scary. and a selection of the fittest persons eisosen to pern.rnt tire duties intno sed upon them; and he voulti show by his conduct that lie looked upon some of the 1 • mmissionersi of bankrupts as most able and learned men. lie trusted that the time was not tat distant when the Vice- Chancellor's Court would be done away with altogether. There was every reason to believe that the new sys tem would work well. He did not intend that the bill: sheuld apply to the country Commissions, but that the town I Cet»otissions should be put upon the improved principle, sad the country Commissions upon the same footing that the town Commissions were at present. His sole object was to amend the laws, and to prevent the waste of property consumed under the present system, and to lessen the num ber of bankruptcies. He believed that traders, under the improved system, would prefer being bankrupts to being compelled to take the benefit of the Insolvent Act. His Lordship apologized for occupying so much of their Lord ships' time. ( Hear, hear.) The Earl of ELDON said that he was always desirous to correct anuses when he believed that abuses really did exist, arid thought It was the bounden duty of the house, before they changed the law of bankruptcy, to institute an inquiry, to ascertain how far those abuses did exist. He had con: versed with some of the most influential men at the bar, and who did not approve of the proposed bill. He could not cansent to the passing of the bill in its present shape, and impressed the necessity of an inquiry into the question. He agreed with the noble and learned lend that the retiring salary of a Lord Chancellor was not sufficient. He held the office fur 25 years, and the average of emolument amounted to 15A00L a year. He thought the retiring salary should de pend upon the number of years that the Great Seal was held. lie condemned the proposed alteration, and thought that the three additianal Judges were perfectly unnecessary, as the present Judges had sufficient time to try all issues that were dircctel to be tried. The Noble and Learned Lord contended at considerable length, that the proposed Bill was perfectly inexpedient and unnecessary, and would create more delay and expense than the present system. The LORD CHANCELLOR explained. 'Tice bill was then read a second time, and waited to be comntitted on Thursday next. SPRING GUNS. The Report on the Spring Gun hill was brought up. Lord WY N FORD said that the bill would prove bone. &is'. as it was a good bill, with the exception of the clause grant 4 og to one Magistrate the power to grant a license. Lord 31E ',BOURNE defended the peopriety and meet si. v of the clause, and urged the expediency of passing the WI! is i:l4 present form. Tile bill was ordered to be engrossed, and read a third time on Munilay. '1 he Beer Act Amendment bill was reported. Their Lordships adjourned at a quarter to ten o'clock. 110 USE OF COMMONS. Sir J. N EW PORT moved for an account of the expense of erecting the parish church of St. George, Dublin, and the amount of the debt outstanding for the erection of that ilaing, together with the original estimate and sum granted by aivertitient for that purpose. He was induced to do this. in consequence of a poor widow with sevenal children. Living been distrained upon fur an arrear of 21 years' church rate. (Hear, hear.) air. LEA DER seconded the motion. Mr. O'CONNELL said that. in Ireland, no more than one year's Minister's money could be recovered. except in the parish of St. George, which was regulated under especial Act of Parliament. Mr. LEFROY defended the conduct of the Ministers of the Church, and said that the expense of the building was borne by un assessment upon the inhabitants of the parish, who did not complain of the expense. air. H. GRATTAN bore testimony to the injustice of the grievance under which the inhabitants of this parish labour-31. Mr. SHAW objected to imputations being cast upon the Ministers of the Church, who had been guilty of no extra vagrnce.— Returns ordered. 511. EW ART presented a petition from Hugh James Slunderson of Liverpool. merchant, complaining of the capture of lass ships by the Brazilian squadron, and praying that compeniation might be enforced from the Brazilian Giivernment for such injuries in the same way that corn penkauon had been enforced for French subjects by the French Government. _ - ..... After a few words tom Mr. Littleton and Mr. Dixon, th. peiwioa WWI laid upon the table. Mr. I.W ART postponed his motion for leave to bring in a bill for abolishing the puniabnient of death, until the 13th of October. Mr. CA Al PBELL brought up his bill for the establish. ing of a general registry. —The bill was read a tint time. CA NIPBELL said it had been objected that this bill would disclioe the private affairs of individuals, but he (knits' it would have any such eff,:et, as was proved by a reference to Doctors' Commons, where the will of any indi vidual might be inspected by any person who pleased to pay $ shilling fur searching after it. The honourable and learned ge n l owa n. in conclusion, moved that the bill be read a _se cond time on the 4th of t/ctober._ Air. 0* CON N IRL L e apt need his unqualified approbation of the measure, and thought it mould confer an incalculable benefit ttpon the country. Mt. *TRICK LA N U observed. that so far as Yorkshire was eocerned, •there was ao occasion whatever ter this tun sure, as in that part of the kingdom local registries had lung been established, and gave such general satisfaction, that it would be unwise now to disturb them. Mr. SLANEY concurred in thinking that such a mea sure as his boa and learned friend had proposed was loudly called for, and would be of the greatest possible utility. Sir J. NEWPORT supported the bill Mr. PAGET expressed himself in favour of the Bill. Mr, LANGTON was in favour of the Bill. CRA MPTON declared that the Bill should have this decided opposition. Mr. JEPHSON supported the Bill. Mr. HUME was glad that the subject was likely to un. dergo investigation • such registries were found most useful in Scotland, and he could not understand the opposition which the Bill had received. Mr. J. SMITH thought that the measure would be beneficial. Mr. HUNT was also in favour of the Bill. Mr. CAMPBELL replied. Sir J. SEBRIGHT approved of the Bill; which was then ordered to be read a second time on the 4th of October. A messenger from the Lords announced that their lord. ships had agreed to the Hackney-coach and Double Assess ment Bills. Tilt ROTIISAY CASTLE.. Mr. SIOSTYN presented a petition from Resumer's, and other places in Wales, respecting the loss of the Roth say Cattle, and praying a legislative enactment to prevent a recurrence of the catastrophe. Colonel SIBTHORP supported the prayer of the peti• tion, and expressed his intention to move for leave to bring in a Bill upon the subject, as soon as the Commi tee then sitting upon it should have come to adecision. tlr. lIITNIE thought that if persons were Indifferent about their lives and properties, by embarking on board vessels without any knowledge of their sea worthiness, legis. • lative interference would be useless. S r T. BARING was surprised at what had fallen from the Hon. Mewls r fur 'Aliddlesx. Such a measure ought to be adopted by Purliamer.t. for how else would those who • came to this country from Ireland be protested from such accidents ? • Me O'CONNELL said that the vessels carrying pas sengers from Dublin were well known to be safe. Mr. HODGES supported the propriety of introducing some legislative enactment upon the subject. . Mt. GRATTAN said that he could, on competent au • thority, assert that the Rothsay Castle had been for several years condemned, and was known to her owners not to be seaworthy at the time. Mr. Alderman VENABLES expressed a hope that some sa idactoey measure would be brought forward, to insure the safety of passengers by s team vessels. Mr. W. W YNN thought that there ought to be an in , spection of every steam vessel carrying passengers, no matter to what port they sailed, before she was allowed to put out to sea. Passengers could not tell whether a packet was over loaded or not, and therefore some means of protection ought to be provided for their security. Mr. CAMPBELL protested against legislating upon such a subject ; for he agreed with the hon. member for Middlesex, that people ought to take care of themselves.— The law subjected a party putting to sea In an unsafe vessel to manslaughter, and if one delinquent were punished in that , way, few similar occurrences would happen. Mr. WARBURTON agreed in opinion with the hon. member for Montgomery. Mr. ROBINSON thought that, as a Committee war sit. • ling on the subject, the house ought to wait for the report of that Committee before they proceeded to bring forward any ! measure. He would not lend himself to any project which might impede steam navigation. After a few words front a noble lord and CoL Sibthorp, the petition was ordered to be referred to the committee. TIIC DOCHICSS Or LIYT AND ?NINNIES' ♦ICTOLIA. Mr. HUNT said that much had been said in the public papers about the absence of the Duchess of Kent and the Princess Victoria from the Coronation. (Cries of Chair, chair ! Order, order !) The SPEAKER observed that the hon. member was not putting a proper lues,ion. Mr. HUNT said, all I want to know is--.ls it true, or is it not ? (Cries of Order, order ! Chair, chair !) The SPEAKER said that the hon. gentleman was out of order. He was putting a question that would lead to a debate. Mr. HUNT—Then I don't know what question to put. (Great laughter.) He recollected a similar question put by an honourable baronet. The SPEAKER observed, that the hon. member must have in his recollection what had passed on that occasion. Mr. HUNT then said that he would state a fact, and then put his question. The hon. member then alluded to the reports which had been published respecting the cause of the absence of the Duchess of Kent and the Princess Vic toria from the Coronation, and asked whether these reports were true ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that be had no hesitation to answer the question put to him. The circumstance of the Duchess of Kent and the Princess Vic toria's absence from the coronation had been much misre presented. The Duchess of Kent had assigned to his Ma. jesty satisfactory reasons for excusing her absence and that of the Princess, on the occasion referred to, but delicacy pre vented him from then saying more than that the reports which had appeared in the oesspapers were unfounded. Mr. CHOKER thought the question a very proper one, and one that ought, in justice to the illustrious personage to whom it related, to be put. (Cries of order.) Here the conversation dropped. 111E/0114 BILL. The order of the day for proceeding with the reform in parliament bill was then read. Mr. STRUTT said that, howeva reformers might differ about the details of the measure, it undoubtedly embraced much that was good. The time had gone by when they could hope to delude the people by the empty name of re presentation, and it was therefore indispensable that some great practical change should be effected.—(Hear, hear.)— The honourable gentleman pointed out the just influence which talent ought to possess, and said that it was not to control the votes of others, but to protect the loda pendence of those votes.—(Hear, hear.) One of the most anxious duties of the legislature was to provide for the political education of the people, but hitherto that object had been neglected, and knowledge was taxed by the Im position of stamp duties upon newspapers. The ignorance of the people had been greatly exaggerated, but he thought that giving them a share in the repetsenta►ton would speedily expel any ignorance that might exist by the intro duction of good and salutary measures. Hs felt that power was derived from the people, and that if this Bill were passed, it would be received with gratitude, and used with discretion.--(Hear, hear.) Mr. B. WALL had been surprised to find that no argument had been offered in favour of the Bill per se, for whenever the Bill was talked about, they were called upon to vote for it, because there was no other measure before the House. (Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord had found it not only necessary to make a new constitution, but to give new feelings to those who were to live under that constitution. One of the operations of the Bill would be the abolition of the law of pr iture, and such was its extent, that all aoderate reformers had been driven into giving their support to the conservative party. (Hear, hear.) The opposers of the Bill had been held up to public odium ; but he would ask, whether there were not gentlemen who had an interest in carrying the measure? (Hear.) There was an obvious union between those who opposed the Catholic Relief Bill, and those who objected to the present mitigate, and to show this, he had only to refer to the north of Ireland, which had sent Members to that House to vote against it. The Honourable Member for Tavistock had attempted to justify the anomalies of the bill, and he held up the 101 householders by way of illustration. He (Mt. Well) how. ever, had always contended that there was a great difference between the 101. householders of Yorkshire, or of Cornwall, and those of London, for the 101. householdersof the former places would feel astonished if they were to see the 101. hou s eholders of the enfranchisement alleys of Billingsgate or of Wapping. The hon. gent. adverted to the number of persons not connected with noble or aristocratic who had arrived at wealth and station, and obtained seats in that house under the present state of things, and asked whether the people ought not to have been satisfied with this demonstration of their power. The hon. gent. then al luded to the public writers who were favourale to the Bill. The editor of the Thew was one of the best writers in fa vour of the Bill ; but no eminent historian or other writer had supported it, and it was his opinion that from the pass ing of the Bill, might be dated the downfall of the British constitution. (Heat.) Mr. VILLIERS objected to the preamble of the bill, be cause It set forth that those who sat in that house bad not been sleeted according to law. If they allowed this to pass unnoticed, how could they hereafter say that this Act was iaviola•e. He objected also to the Inflammatory appeals which bad been made to the people, and the Interference of ! the military; but he hoped that his objections to the pream. ble wculd not affect any of the operative classes: (hear, hear, from the Opposition benches.) There was however one clause of which be could not approve, and that wai the clause which related to t h e division of counties, and which be conceived to be most pernicious in its effects: (hear, Aar.) The county members would be stigmatised in fu ton as the representatives of individuals ; it was they who would be spoken of as nominees. He should be sorry to see this measure pass into law ; but fortunately there was another branch of the Legislature, (loud cheers from the Opposition ;) and be would never give his assent to a measure that would be likely to infringe upon the rights of that branch. (Cheers.) 31r. LABOUCH ERR thought that, from the state of the country, his Majesty's Government did right to adopt a prudent boldness, and'give to the people of this country so Important a plan of Reform. In this plan he saw three great principles, namely, doing away with close boroughs, giving the franchise to large towns. and throwing open the corporate towns. ft was possible that this country, like other coup tries, would have to fight the battle of democratic power; but this he knew, that if they had, they never could have done it upon the present ground. As he was a lover of the true balance of power, he was ever ready to shed his blood to perpetuate it. But he thought that the surest way to en able this country to stand against any revolutionary attack,' was by this bill pasting into a law. Mr. PANE contended that this bill was a triumph over' , real liberty, for it interfered with tbc corporations of the country, and the house should recollect that an interference' with corporate rights caused the exclusion of the House of Stuart from the throne of this kingdom. CuL MABERLY said that the objections redact against the bill by the hon. m e mber for Cockermouth (Sir J. Scar. kit) were in his mind exceedingly frivolous. He contended that this hill, instead of leading to revolution, would be found to work practiellly in favour of the aristocracy, (Hear, hear, from Mr. !lune) which was owing particularly to the clause which gave to tenants.at.will the right of voting for a member for a county. Indeed, the bill was more aristocratical than even the present constitution. (Hear, bear, from Sir R. Peel.) He understood the cheer of the right hon. ban. and would answer it at a proper time. Ile denied that this bill would lead to a further demand for Re. form; on the contrary, lie declared it to be his opinion that the bill would be final. The people did not want symme try in this ileine ; all they wanted was that the sale of seats should be done away with, and that they should be fairly represented in that House. Give them these things and they will be content. (Hear, hear.) Mr. A. TREVOR objected to the bill generally, and to the means taken by a licentious press to force it along. He looked to a revolution to follow the passing of this bill, and consequently, to the certainty of the downfall of the institu. stuns of this country. Mt. L. WELLESLEY contended that this bill was no innovation upon the constitution of the countq. It was generally admitted both by those who opposed, as well u those who supported the bill, that public opinion ought to give a direction to public affairs. The question was as to the extent of that public opinioa. Now, he contended that public opinion, as shown through the medium of the late elections, was decidedly in favour of the supporters of the bill. He asked of the right honourable member for Harwich, if he did not think that the electors of Essex voted in favour of the reform candidate from their own conviction in favour of reform, and not from any dicta tion or influence that bad been exercised with respect to them. There were some parts of the bill which he wished did not belong to it. He alluded to those pans which gave in his mind an additional power to the aristocracy, which they did not want. He contended that the broader the basis of the democracy, the surer was the power of the aristocracy. I He thought that the division of the counties would give too much power to the aristocracy ; but it was his belief, that it would be impossible to equally divide the counties ; for instance, it would be quite impossible to divide Wiltshire. He also thought that the duties thrown upon the overseers, were duties which they ought not to be entrusted with. Af. ter aome further remarks, he concluded by saying that be supported this Bill, beca use he believed it would not inter fere with any of the just rights of the aristocracy. Mr. Co URTEN A Y said that not one half of those whom it was declared by his Majaty's ministers ought to be en. trusted with the elective franchise would be so entrusted. The members that would be returned under this bill would be obliged, even in opposition to their wishes, perhaps to vote against the Government, if the Government happened not to be approved of by the people. He asked if the ministry would be able to carry on more wise measures hereafter than had been formerly carried through that house. Will the Government relieve the country from the national debt? He -would here observe that be could not but a. press his astonishment at the way in which the speech of an honourable gentleman had been cheered by the mem bers of his Majesy'a Government, (bear, hear,) tbe ob ject of which speech was to bring the power of the people to operateagainst the Nettles/ Debt. His objection to the Bill was, it would give too much of popular power in that House. Ile did not believe any practical good would result from this Bill. The only evil, If evil it could be called, which It would put an end to, was the principle of direct nomination. The opposers of this Bill did not deny that there would be danger in opposing this Bill, but they thought that much greater danger would result to the coun try hem the passing of the Bill. The people were beginning to show an impatience respecting one of the branches of the Legislature, an Impatience which was fostered by his Ma jesty's Government. (Hear.) He would oppose this Bill, because he was content with the conadtution as it was, and because he did not think there would be any improve meet in the constitution by this Bill passing into a law. If any movement was the result of this opposition, he freely owned he would rather see It now than wait for its certainty of coming hereafter. (Hear.) Mr. MACAULAY said that, although this bill of Reform had been changed in some parts tor the better, in some parts for the worse, it was yet the same bill which had received the assent of the people at the late election. (Hear.) Believing that this bill would be the parent of other good laws, he would upon this last and solemn occasion give it his most earnest support. This law would notgive bread to the people ; it was never intended to do so; the object of this law, as of all laws, was not to give the people wealth, but to enable them to protect that wealth which their industry had accumulated. (Cheers.) Hs be lieved that had tills law been in operation fur the last lb years, this country would be in a very different situation , limn what it now was. (Hear.) The opposition to this bill rested upon mere supposition. For instance, it was stated that under this bill, such would be the effect of popular power, only persons would be returned that had a local in. fluency in the place which they repreaented. This he denied; and he pointed, in support of his denial, to Nottingham, which, being a populous place, returned an advocate and a soldier, unconnected with that town. He pointed to West minster and Southwark, both which places had frequently ' returned peons perfectly unconnected with them ; for in. stance, Westminster had returned Mr. Tierney, Mr. Sheri dan, and Sir Samuel Hominy ; and no one could my that this latter gentleman was a hustings-loving individual. In deed, if that great man had one blot upon his character, it was his dislike of popular ekblbitions. He (Mr. Macaulay) denied that any ro-action had taken place, or that the feeling upon the subject was merely transitory and fleeting, as the honourable gentleman had described it to be. During the lest 70 years, the cause of reform had occupied a sessiderable space in the public mind, and although events lad mourn! to divert attention from it, yet the ntls wholly lost sight of it. The question of Re mem was pined by the Catholic 'leaden, and the senti ment in its favo u r had since rapidly gained ground. The cause of reform had at length shown that strength which It bad acquired in secret, and be would as soon expect a reaction, as he would look to a repetition of the burning of heretics and witches.—(Hear, hear.) It was their duty to support the privil eges o f th e other House of Parliament ; but then they were not to neglect those of the House of Commons. the House of Commons was to protect their beloved Sovereign and the country from danger, and what ever might be die prejudices elsewhere, he hoped that that House would have wisdom enough to avert the consequences of those Prejudices.--(Long continued cheering.) Mr. CHOKER was not surprised at the immense cheer. ing which bad followed the bon. gene's speech. He was glad to find that the hon. gent. had received the reward of his high services, an office In his Majesty's Government.— The hon. gent. might , however, have spared his admonition to that House, have avoided schooling the Hams of carried withlirt l e ta ve o r w b o rd rettatioie t the 16" The gen hoo r... . s g P rt. h had wal' om it only addressed that house, bat be had also addressed soothes He had drawn his argumeoa from the French mu- ration and the empty halls of St. Germain's but be seemed to have forgotten that those empty hells would re-echo a refutation to the arguments be had used. (Hear.) He should have borne in mind that France, like this coun. ivy, bad an ancient constitution, and that the French Le tialattue had met to consult concerning the law by which, they were then assembled. The Right Hon. Gentleman ex. planed the means adopted prier to the French revolution to abolish the peerage of that country, sad to destroy sensorial rights and tithes. He then obserfed that those transactions furnished the most incontrovertible evidence of the danger which was likely to result from the Reform Bill. He depre cated any interference with the privileges of the House of Lords, and trusted that the Peers of England would judge and act for themselves, and would, if they agreed with him as to the tendency of the sseesure, unhesitatingly reject it : (cheers.) It had been said that the majority of the people of this country were in favour of the Bill, but he denied this : (hear.) There certainly was a majority in its favour in that House, but he repeated, that he did not believe this majo rity to exist out of doors: (hear, hear.) The Right Hon. gentleman at some length pointed out the partiality which had been shown to some boroughs and counties over others, having equal, if not greater claims, in point of extent of po pulation and wealth, and went on to show that the repro. sentation of those places with which the friends of the bill were connected, was increased, while that of other places having no such connexion was diminished. This was said to be a bill for extending the elective franchise. The boroughs in schedule B. polled 11,000 voters, but by the return on the table, the constituency of these boroughs would be reduced to four thousand. The whole number of the electors polled by all the boroughs amounted to between 104,000 and 105,000, but by this bill a re duction to 80,000 would be effected, so that it might be said that the constituency of all the boroughs would be diminished at least one-fifth. If, after this, the people con tinued their favour to the bill, he should say that they bad lost their common senses. (Betz, hear.) He would make other observations upon the absurdities of the bill, but they were too numerous for comment. These absurdities were, however, so &grant, that they must be obvious to the peo ple of England : but he feared that the people of England— he feared—and he did so in charity.—that his Majesty's itli nistera did not understand the bill, or they would not think of it otherwise than as he did. The right bon. gentleman adverted to the period for polling, and contended that net. they time nor expense would be saved by the arrangement. It was rather singular that those members of Parliament who were appointed Commissioners under this bill had distinguished themselves in the share which they took in protroting the views of ministers in this bill. Would the house believe that one of the unsuccessful reform candidates at Grimsby was a member of the commission, as was also Isis agent at that election. But if the unsuccessful candi date, Mr. Talent, was chosen on account of his auspicious name (laughter), there was another gentleman also chosen on account of his auspicious name, he meant the Rev. Mr. Sheepshanks (loud laughter). Of course no person could find fault with the appointment of a, person who a few days ago had been made Master in Chancery by the Lord Chancellor (Mr. Martin)—(laughter). The last Commis sioner whom he should mention was a clerk of the House of Lords. What 1 a clerk of another house to be ap pointed to a tribunal in the first instance for deciding who should be the electors of member of this house—(hear, bear.) The opponents of the bill had done their duty, and it bad its effect throughout the country. He had no doubt but that the Lords would do what they conceived to be their duty. If he were convinced that the House of Lords would be influenced by intimidation in their de cision respecting this measure, he would be against that house. (Hear, hear.) lie venerated the House of Loads. He entertained the highest sense of their integrity and honour, and to then: he would say, " Now, or DOM r " (Cheers.) He would ask what was the use of the House of Lords ? Was it to register the proceedings of the House of Commons, or were they to differ from the Commons only as a Turnpike Bill. This question he deemed more important than the question respecting the succession of the House of Hanover, or the revolution. They were gone, but we are going. He had such a reliance In the constitutional affection of the gentlemen of the House of Commons for our institu tions, that if the bill were rejected by the Lords, they would not attempt to force the other House to a contrary course. for that would be a prelude to the destruction of our valuable institutions. The Right Hon. Gentleman sat down amidst loud cheers front the Opposition. Mr. STANLEY said the right hon. gentleman confined himself merely to amusing the house by harping on the names of the Commissioners, which ought rather to be dis cussed in the Committee, and then in reading a lecture to the Lords on the course they should pursue. Admitting that out of 36,600 voters there was a majority of oalylB,lloo, he saw nothing in this. The thing would have been diffe rent had the real same of the country been taken. (Hear.) But it was a fact that could not be disputed, that out of all the county members in that House there were only six county members in that house who were pledged against the bill. The right hon. gentleman glanced at the conduct of the house of lords, and expressed a hope that the bill would be sent back amended, as he called it. He ad verted to the conduct of the peers of France, and said thatit was because they refused to accede to the calls of the people until they were obliged, that their assent was disregarded. He hoped that the Peas of this country would not adopt a similar course. (Hear, hear.) Such conduct would have a fearful effect. if the Peers of England rejected the wishes of the people, they would produce an hostility towards them which was incompatible with the real feelings of the people of England, who respected the aristocracy, because it was an aristocracy attached to, and connected with the people. He hoped that before six months that Bill would be the law of the land. But come what may, the supporters of the Bill would have the Bads facdon of knowing that they had done every thing to for. ward a measure which was anxiously wished for by a grate ful people. Coo SIBTHORP moved that the debate be adjourned to this day.—Agreed to. The other orders of the day were disposed of, and the House Adjourned at Haltpast One .'Clock. STAR OFFICE, HALF-PAST FIVE O'CLOCK. We just learn t►at there is no doubt bet Doo Pedro and his daughter Donna Maria will be countenanced in an ex pedition to Portugal. In the meantime, Spain is threaten ing to support Miguel, sod in that ease France threatens to invade Spain. Thus good may come out of evil; sod the Spanish Constitutionalists attain the Anal triumph of their cause. The last accounts from Paris to Tuesday morning, indi cate that great tumults still prevail in that eity—particulars to-morrow. The Westminster Meeting to-day was numerously at tended. The High Bailiff was in the Chair. Mr. Cups* moved the address, and Dr. Bainbridge, Sir F. Burdett, Colonel Terrens, Colonel Evans, and Sir John Cam Hob house, spoke with great spirit. On Monday there was a great misting at laviaroot., Sir Joseph Birch in the Chair, whim a pstidon to the Leeds was agreed on. Mr. Wallis Curry. Mr. James Broodier, Mr. Henry Booth, Mr. Lithium', Mr. Rushton, Colonel Williams, bad Molyneux, Mr. Cropper. &e. Su. addressed See or six thousand persona. At CHATHAM also, has been held a great meting, Cap. tan Kann in the Chair. Before the BT. LIZIOII, yesterday, at Dermas/zit, the two year old Produce Stakes were wen by BIUTANDOirt, against Whisker and Butt= ; and alter it, the renewed Docents: Stakes were wets by Mama, realest tear others. Our letter by this meraiug's post, give aerostats of three Incendiary Ares on Monday night In Wlltildre sod Devon dare, two of than of considerable extent. P.sca•a PASSIM Is about to tread in the steps of Mary la-bonne, in resiades the pavan* of Select Vestry rates. A public swede' for this purpose was bed yesterday. The Funds closed this evades at al 4 4. FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE. CALAIS, SEPT. 20. TO THE EDITOR OF THE ,STAR. Sin —I have just this moment arrived from Paris, and, as an old reader of your paper, hasten to give you some account of the state] of that eity, and of France, up to Sunday. Then was a fracas in Paris on Saturday, bit it has been greatly exag gerated. For a long time past, the Parisians have expected a serious row, whenever any bad news should arrive from Poland, and the news of Friday produced a very general sensation of anger tom n: t the Government, for the apathy of France, aml of horror for the sufferings of the brave Poles. All Paris was under arms, and the regiment. ,r the line were called out, " u the National Guard were supposed to be favourable to the Polish cause." There have been several arrests, and some if them of persons of education and consequence- 1 feeling of general insecurity prevailed, and there seems to be good reason to fear further mischief. Theta is a feeling prevalent that the troops I. er.', in reality, recalled from Belgium, in order to be oft the spot at Paris in case of mischief. With reg.tril to parties in France there can be no doubt, that nine out of ten all over the North of France are ultra liberals, and they speak with rapture of the liberals or radicals of England. Commerce is quite at a stand in France ; and every thing getting very dear ; a sort of feeling of distrust towards the Government certainly prevails to a great extent, and we need not wonder if the next post should bring news of important Change 4. The King, Louts PHILIPPE, has lost all his popularity. _ _ . . S. A. R. P. S. The STAR WAS read with avidity at Paris. PARTS JOURNALS OF YESTERDAY. CHAMBER OF DEPUTIES. At two o'clock, M. Berenger, the reporter of the commission, appeared with the report of the peerage law ; it was extremely long, and occupied considerable time in the reading. It commenced by examining the right of the peers to j o i n i n the discussion of this question, and observed that the chain which united the two Cham bers in legislative censultation had never been broken ; that on the Sd of August, 1830, the ses sion had been opened by- the Lieutenant-General of the kingdom in the presence of the two Cham bers ; that they 11:c1 both deliberated upon and voted for the revision of the charter that on the 7th of August Louis Philip swore to support the charter in the presence of the two Chambers ; in a word, that both had concurred in remodellinz the constitution. From this the report concluded that the two Chambers hare an equal right to take part in the discussion of the 23d article, which was now to be revised. It repelled the opinion of those who bad called for the intervention of the primary assemblies in the consideration of the na tional affairs, an opinion which would be to recall chaos. The report then examined the connexion which existed between two such Chambers in the va rious constitutional Government ' and insisted from thence, that the Peers ought to be a moderatinf power, and different in its composition and o bj ect to that of an elected Chamber. The mission of the Chamber of Peers was to arrest, in certain cases, the progress of events. The basis of this Chamber being thus fixed, it was necessary to examine if the nomination of Peers ought to be effected by popular election, by lists of candidates, or directly by the King. If the electoral mode be employed, whatever be its conditions or modi fications, the Chamber of Peers would soon become a Chamber of Deputies,thus giving two similar Cham bers. The principle of election was not compatible with immoveability. The commission therefore rejected the principle of election. As to the elec tion by lists of candidates, it would be merely a fiction, and always easy to force the will of the King, by joining with the persons whom popular feeling might wish to appoint to the peerage, other persona notoriously incapable and unfit. The direct appointment of peers becomes then indispensable, but it will be for Ministers a source of great re sponsibility. The reporter then states, that his own opinion was decidedly for the here ditary right,—that a Chamber of Peers, as a moderative Chamber could have no force without this right. This the reporter declares to be the opinion of the minority of the Commission. The reporter concluded by announ ' cing to the Chamber, that it was the opinion of the Commission that the peerage should not be here ditary, but for life ; that the King should alone be invested with the right of naming the Peers ; and that, finally, the present law should be definitive, not provisional, as proposed by the Ministers. The report, in fact, affirmed the whole project of Mi nisters for remodelling the Peerage, except making the measure a definitive one, and not provisionary. It was said that the questions about Poland and Belgium were not to be discussed on Monday evening. THE DISTURBANCES. PARIS, MONDAY EVIRING.—You will see by the journals what has been the state of this metropolis within the last three days—in fact, since the sad intelligence reached Paris that Warsaw had fallen, afters heroic e. I have seen all the riots last year; but this last riot, in one respect, differed from them. The people who gathered into street crowds were better dressed than the mobs which beset the Luxem bourg Palace during the trial of the ministers, and pulled down the Archbishop's dwelling. The young men of the schools, and persons apparently mixing a good deal in society, were the rioters of yesterday and Saturday ; few of them were with out strong sticks, and many, I believe, had conceal ed fire-arms ; loaded pistols were, indeed, found ' upon some prisoners. I certainly did not see the working people so much engaged in these last crowds as they were in the previous ones. Besides this difference in the class of men who composed these last street crowds, there was also another and a very serious distinction observable. The National Guards did not answer well to the rappel. I have spoken to many who frankly avowed, that they would not take up arms to extinguish popular sympathy for the Poles. —Enow did assemble to preserve the public peace, but there were thousands of others who heard with inattention the drum beat to arms. The regiments of the line, cavalry and infantry, were oui in greater force than I remember to hove previously seen in the streets, and they turned a deaf ear to the insidious hints of Long live the Line,' which were uttered by the crowd, and rode over numbers of people by word of command, when the order for dispersion was pronounced. Indeed they were foolish in some of their charges. for they galloped on Saturday night through the covered passage in the Rue V ivienne, on the smooth lags and steps of which horses and men rolled In boisterous confusion. Two gunsmiths' shops wen plundered, and in .~ t ! ri • ..