Star. — London, England, 1823-05-01 00:00:00

r ow the general inteffereliee of the Allied Powers, fo rewent a sort of European Pohie from interfering with the affairs of independent States. I disclaim all alliance with such views ; and I do so in strict ac cordance with the views of my late predecessor in toffee (the late Marquis of Londonderry). I know that my Honourable Friend (Mr. WiilierEirce) whom I altogether distinguish from others, did not think, that to conciliate these Powers we should call them despots, tyrants, haters of freedom, and charge them w i t h a wish to put down the rising liberties of the world. He could hardly expect that, like Skyldck in splay, it we said to them ••• Fair Sir, you spat on me on Wednesday last, you spred me on such a day, another time You call'd me dog And for these courtesies...... ..I'll yield to you"— 'at such an appeal would do nothing. You, Gen niernen, to whom I address myself, would despise the Ise of such language, and still more perhaps decry the policy of those who could so speak. (Hear, hear.) The principles of morality were not the less enforced, if enforced by rhetoric and ornament, rather than by flowers of Billingsgate sown deep, Mcdio de fonte lepornin &alit stnari aliquid quad in ipsis floribus angst. Bach was not our language at the Congress of Ve rona; if we had used it, our object would have been altogether defeated. But here I must make some subsidiary objections. In the first place, lam asked why our Plenipotentiary went to Verona at all ? It was said that the affairs of Spain did not occupy a prominent part of the deliberations of that Congress; and here what I formerly omitted, I may now take Inge E say, that we never intended they should oc copy a prominent part. We never intended our Plenipotentiary should go to the Congress of Ye. tana at all with legate' to the Spanish question.— The Congress of Verona was assembled particularly sew the affairs of Italy; and so far back as two ; years ago England said she would not pal ticipw.e in them, in the same terms as had been said at a pre 'toes Congress at . Vienna. I. have no difficulty in saying, that when I took the Seals of the Foreign 03ce one object was, the arrangement of a peace, or rather the prevention of hostilities, between Russia rid the Sablime forte—(Hear; hear). Such was the mutual confidence of those Puss el s in the Govern ment of Great In itain, that the 11, nisi) Ambassador to the Sublime Porte (acting the chief part in the tie gociations between them) was summoned to the Con gress at Verona for the special purme of stating the manner in sshich he had left the complicated nego tiations. So little we; it expected by. us that Spain could come under the notize of the Cong ressahat it was only °biter and by the way her condition could be considered; and our Anibassa.dor's attention was merely called to the relations between Russia and the Porte—England being the only Power in whose hands were left the chance of a happy issue, England's being the only interference by which p eace h a d a chance of king restored between two great Powers, was suffi cieet reason for our sending to the Congress of Verona. But it has been asked why, when we found Snain the subject of negotiation at Verona, we did not call upoa that Power to send an agent there ? I can only .answer as to us, that our object was not to counte mance any discussion of her affairs at all ; and that if we did so, it was morally certain that Spain, being so called upon, would altogether in a great degree destroy the efforts we had previously made in her fa• lour—(Hear, hear).—The British Government was glad to avoid all discussions upon the difficulties in which Spain was entangled—a King, Constitution, and people divided against each other ; and wai at the same time anxious not to lead the Allied Powers into that assumption with regard to an inter ference with Spain, which the sshole of our policy vent to deny. The Congress of Verona ended . by teplacieg in British hands the charge of reconciling two of the greatest empires in the world,Russia and the iblime Porte ; a charge which evidently shewed there was nothing in our conduct at Verona to lower ow tharacter, to weaken our power, or to lessen the political influence of Great Britain—( Hear, hear). — The fullest powers were given to our Minister, granted by the one and acceded to by the, other great State. Our Minister was not the agent of a crippled and a weakened Power, not the organ of a helpless and de pendent State; but the agent of a Power, dispensing justice and equity, and possessing the ,means of en forcing them—(Hear, hear). Thus ended the Con gnu of Verona in tegard to the affairs of the East.— With respect to Italy, havin,g no business witli its of fairs, we did not interfere. With eespect to Spain, we "nosed a joint declaration of the Allied Powers—a ; corporate act of force or menace against her. It was in reference to this principle, that While England did sl she could to allay the itritatlons caused by the dispatches of the Allied Powers and of France, she 'said not stilt be guilty of any dereliction of her character and duty, and that the Government of England exerted every office of friendship to pre lent matters coming to the worst—(Hear, hear) What the impressions made by our interference were ei Spain, will be best seen by the dispatches of Sir I Y. A'Court, with which I will not now trouble the House. From the dissolution of the Congress at Ve rona, I am naturally led to Paris. There the French Government was found, having brought back the cosatenance of the Anied Powers in certain hypo thetical cases, which had not then, and which have lot since occurred—and hence France, now at War with Spain, is not at war upheld by the countenance' tithe Allied Powers. The cases foreseen at Verona, *ere, in the first place, any attack by Spain on fa mily --or violen c e to King Ferdinand or his "atily--or any forcible change in the reigning eire *Y. Such were the cases provided for; and lam not here to argue whether interference we; e neces sary on nor part if a.sy such occurred—l merely "ate then], and state diens the more to sheer that t hey have not occurred—(Cries of Hear, hear). — Prance is now, therefore, not at war upon a Verona case, and, so far as I know, no subsequent Euru. Kos Conference has assembled for the purpose of o Hoeing other cases within the right of France to Proceed to a war with Spain—(Hear, hear, heat). Neithe r do I know that the Allies are its such a new, and to me unknown situation, as that they are pledged to assist France. A question was started at Verona, as to whethe r Eint'and would mediate with Spain; and the Duke of Wellington reporting home whether such 411 intelieietice would be offered, received a Mo st di couta a in ,, ans wet. Ile was particularly de sired hiut to undertake it, if the Powers of the Holy Alliance shewed any disposition to move towards. :99 is ' Spain by any corporate or joint act. Whet), howev . av, he arrited at Palk the nature of things altered, and that interference was undertaken. Was it necessary to point out the differences of our situation at those two periods? Wher, interference was necessary OT useful, we lost Dist a moment to grasp at it—we •seized the chance of mediation, because we had just thee received an application from Spain for the inter ference ofour good offices. It was said that the re. fusel of our mee: aims on the part of France should be resented ; but speaking generally of the policy of nations, he begged to be anderstood to say, that such a refusal could be considered as no affront, and subsequent acceptance no proof of humiliation.-;-- Our mediation was refused, but our good offices were accepted by France, whilst at the same time they were received by Spain; and whilst he was on this part of the subject, he begged to call the attention of the House to a Paper, which had been a good deal commented on ; he meant the Letter of the Spanish Minister, San Miguel. In all that had been said of the eloqu'erice, sincerity, simplicity, and manliness of that document, he fully concurred ; but its purport, he believed, had been a great deal misunderstood. The Spanish Minister had complained that he had not been made acquainted with the progress of the negoti ations, but the reason he was not informed of them was' —we were then negotiating with other Powers, in' tie hope cf arriving at a result favourable to Spain. Ile appealed to any honourable man who heard him, whetter, as long as there was a hope of an issue Una nimoils and favourable, would it not have been un-' fair, both to Spain and her Allies, to make known the disputes which were then going forward, and which, might never he brou g ht to issue? Would it have 1 , been right to tell France that we. were fighting her .battles, so long as there was a hope of a layout able termination; which would have prevented her from feeling that these battles ever had been fought, and it was not until he found that he had been disappoint ed, that he communicated the subject? He thought he had now put the House in possesSion of facts which would explain the following passage of San Mignel's speech, and he wished that the conduct of the English Government might be tiied by this and no other standard. The Minister San Miguel writes thus:—"" The acts to which I allude would in nowise compromise the most strictly-conceived system of neutrality. Good offices, counsels, the reflections of one friend in favour of another, do not place a na tion in concert of attack or defence with another— do not expose it to the enmity of the opposite party, even though they do not deserve its gratitude. England might act in this manner; being able, ought she so to act? and if she ought, has she acted so ? In the wise, the just, and generous views of the Go vernment of St. James, no other answer can exist than tire affirmative. Why,. then, does she not notify to Spain what she has done?" It is true, and no less lamentable than Wile, that the representation's of this country to France did not prove successful. The Ho nourable Member for Westminster (Mr. Hoblieuse) had attributed the failure to the intriguei of the Rus sian Minister, and had gone so far as to state, that this distineuished individual had made a bet in a French coffee-house, that he would engage the Prencli nation in a war—(el laugh).—EMr.Hosirodsz (across the House)--." I only said it was so supposed."3-In deed, the whole argument of the Honourable Gen tleman, and those about 'him, seemed to proceed upon the same system of supposition, and it might perhaps be as well to amend their Address to the Crown by adding, that his Majesty's most faithful Commons most humbly pray, that his Majesty will be graciously pleased to take measures to avert the dreadful calamity of a war, supposed to have origi nated in a French coffee-house !--(Great laughter).' I believe, however, that what the Member for Bridgenorth said was more true. I believe the war, against Spain not a war by France, but of a dormant faction in France—(Hear, hedr).—l believe that some of the Members of the French Cabinet hoped to a late period to avoid a war, and that, up to the latest period, the smallest loop-hole from which they could have crept Would have induced them to avoid war—(Hear, hear).—We wire considered dupes, be cause some Gentlemen ascribed to the Frepch Go- Vernrhent an unalterable line of conduct from the beginning to the end, and had held their coarse right on. But a little consideration would shew how er rorteous were those views. M. Matthew de Iqontmo rency went to Verona, high in the confidence of and, countenanced by the Holy Alliance—on his return to Paris he was created a Duke for his able services, in the view of France and the Allied Powers; but, I strange to say, in three days after his return, be was I dismissed from office, and his dispatch, conceited %%WI the Ministers of the Allied Powers, was signed by another Officer- -(Hear, hear, hear).—From this change, I must confess, I believed in the prospect of a peace, and so far I may have been a dupe. The, fact, however, was not so ; for the question thence forward turned from being an European to a mere , French question. M. de Montmorency was bound to the conditions agreed to by the Allied Powers. Ano-, ther French Minister had merely French views as to the war with Spain ; and M. de Montmorency, like a man of honesty and honour, quitted office when he found he could no longer accomplish his object. This conduce, in my mind, completely negatives the charge of our being duped. If the Hon. Gentlemen oppo site read over the correspondence attentively with the key, they would clearly understand the difference be tween the Note of M. de Montmorency to the Duke of Wellington, and that of M. de Chateaubriand to me. M. de Montmorency said the policy to be pur sued was European ; M. de Chateaubriand, ip expla nation said, rather singularly, it is toutes Franraises. et tout autres—an explanation, in truth, which I don't well understand—(Hear, hem, hear, and laughter).— I can only speak of M. de Chateaubriand with .re spect for his private worth—With admiration of his talents and genius— with the most perfect conviction of his untainted honour, and his capability to fill the highest station. Whatever I may think of the con duct of France, or of the French 'Ministry, I cannot individually say of him that he is capable or been guilty of duplicity. I have been the cause of some unintentional misrepresentation relative to his cha racter : in justice I owe him some explanation, and now most willingly offer it. I must, however, con fess that M. de Chateaubriand was rathet unfavour ably spoken of in a dispatch from Madrid relative to the failure of Lord F.Sornerset'scnission to Madrid; but I have received another copy of the FrenCh Minister's dispatth, in which the tense of the objectionable verb 'is future and nos past, and the mere (lesion 'era einse should not beneficed too severely. I mast here beg lest.* to say, although rather - out of plate Its to my argument, that a great sensation was prodticed in this House and the country by the seiaure of a Spa nish corvette by a French ve3sel of war. The first intimation I had of this transaction was in this House; and I must needs own the event looked a little strange, inasmuch as if any orders for such seizure had been given, it must be when the French Govern-, ment had expressed such warm dispositions for peace. But looking to the war of 175 G and that of 1804., it was not for this country to throw the first stone—(Hear, hear, hear, from Mr. Brougham). As soon as I heard of this seizure, I sent off a mes senger to a.k an explanation on the subject. This explanation had just arrived by telegraph, and wa; put into my hands as I was coming to the House.— The dispatch is dated Paris, 28th April, 182;, and is as follows: 1, Nothing of has been received by the French Govern ment as to the seizure of a Spanish corvette by the French ship of war Le Jean de Bart. Nu instructions for such seizure were sent out, and if any such prize were made, it must be under very particular circumstances. In any case, however, the French Government will see justice done."—(Bear, hear, from both sides of the House.) —I have mentioned this circumstance in order to slim there is a promptitude in explanation afforded by the French Government whenever such tion can be given. It has been mentioned in the course of the debate .last night—l am not sane if it were so, but it has been menti:nrea, that it was an insult to call upon Spain to assure us confidentially of the safety of the Royal Family. I can account, however, for our making this request. It was on e of the cases stipulated for at Verona. We did not a4c this tssui ante other wise than in the most friendly manner ; we asked it as one friend would another ; and we asked not any positive guarantee, but merely a confidential assurance to that effect. On a subject connected wilt this lam unwilling to speak—l al lude to some objections Which have fallen from My Honourable and Learned Friend (Sir J. Nlackinto,h) who seemed almost to exhaust the power of his mind in that able eulogy which he pronounced on M. Ar guelles. I allude more especially to that part of his eulogy Where he so much praised that. Minister for spanrig King Ferdinand's. Iiie—ESirJAMES MACKIN . - TOSU—I tried the word as sparing the delicacy of King Ferdinand.j=l have no doubt my Hon. and Learned Friend must have so intended, for no man can be more aware how fatal it is to associate in the mind and render familiar to less gifted persons the danger of lightly treating Kings---(Henr, hear). — If they did advise a change in their Constitution to the Spaniards, they had done it in the mildest and least offensive way possible. After paying a com pliment to the speech of a Noble Lord (Gower) on this which had contributed much to set the question on its right footing, he observed, that they had refused to interfere in persuading Spain to mo dify her Constitution, and that afterwards they had been called to account in that House her so neglecting that which many now consider to be their duty, should they not haie been taunted and reproached by certain persons in that,liouse, with having pursued such con duct? He would rather haie now to defend his Majes ty's Govern ment from the chasge made against theni,of having - suegested a change in the Constitution of Sprtin, on the strength of suds information, than ha* to defend them against the charge of insensibility to the advantages they possessed, and stupidity in the want of application of them to the practical question . of the propriety of our interference on this point. He regretted, and must ever regret, that the advice had not been taken by the Spanish Ministry; he admitted the point of honour, but still much would have been done in clearing the way of difficulties towards our ,effectual interference, bad any, even *the slightest. concession been made. It was at the time n3dch.re gretted that Spain had. no external cause for war, if disposed to commence. hostilities. The case between France and Spain stood thus: France. alleged that the internal state of Spain•alartned and affected her interests; Spain alleged that the existence of the Army of Observation on the Spanish frontier alarmed' and affected her- interests. This was a state of things which admitted uT nothing but war or mutual conces sion. tin was it for our Government to say we could not, owing to-some stupidjty Which palsied our Coun cils, advise Spain to make her internal State in some degree acceptable to Prance; when we were perfectly aware that by so doing she would have obtained from France most important advantages, in the na ture of concessions, as to the external condition of that country? In giving this advice, we hal not gone further than we were warranted by the law of na tions; but that with a view to modify the differences between them, we had only intreated the Spanish Mi nisters to abate a little of their just pretensions, and not insist on the rigid justice of their case. It was! therefore his duty, as Foreign Minister, to induce Spain to relax something of its positive right, to procure the pat..ificatiun so anxiously sought. .He would even admit that he went to the wrong party to ask this con cession—the party who had most right to complain. He quoted the authority of Vattel, which, he said, he could the more safely rely on, because it was al ways applicable, .and not formed fur the occasion, who had laid it down as a principle, that the weaker Power (even though situated as Spain was) should re linquish some of its right, with at view to effect a. pa cification. Under this authority, he felt lie might safely shelter himself, more particularly as he had given this advice with the best intention, although, in this respect, too, be had been charged 'with parti ality. " Good.Gotir said he, "if I had pursued a contrary line. of conduct, and were impeached, by those who now arraign me, for adopting such a con trary line of conduct to that *hid) has been adopted in these negociatiops, what woad be the tone of triumph in wikh my conduct. would have been de nounced, coupled with this memorable sentence from so high an opinion" as Vattel? might very fairly have been added by me in that negotiation, that the concession was the more necessary, as France was a mighty Power, entrenched sound by extensive :Oli-. antes, and so centrically and fortunately situated, as to give her a preponderating influence amongst nations."' He could not possibly say what might be the conse quences of the evil which France had done, or whe tiler it might not recoil back on the party thus vio lating the rights of nations—(Hear). But if it did recoil on the aggrbssur, it should be leanllected aggressiop, in this sense, was notian isolated existence, either influencing or influenced by others, bdt that • • s. . , this itCoii on tFe • aggresioi Might tatiikthe ne . hours of tMt*aggression, possibly might affect the )6 7 terests, the tranquillity . of Europe. Alid in iliisiefise he would say, that could we have put-Chased peace by such a concession as the one alluded to, he should have thought he li id purchased it Oeitoly tar Spain, for Great Blitain, :and for Curgie-:airrear}: With respect to the suggestion gf a concession, he IshOuld observe that tl:e exre ?jerky of that measure of pacification had many adVocates even in Spain: Tne Constitution of Spain, As it now stood by law, was liable to be renised at the end of the Bth year. Some persons consid.o.ed the Sth year in this case wet to be calculated from the commencement of its ac tual operation, whilst ethers contended it was to be taken horn its date, which would make the-Consti tution, according to the first construction, have three years to run still; and, according to the latter, it had already run out its date. Now this opinion he had from a Spaniard of great name, and who had taken a very prominent part in the revolution of that country: '.his was a question purely Spauish, with which he had no concern, but 140n1 which it would appear that some-of the revolutionists themselves thought that for some years bac; this revision of her Constitution might lawfully have taken place. Where then was there : a colour for putting into the mouth of the Cortes the pathetic appeal of our, poet, " Can I lay [et: J uly on my soul ?" for here was a distinguished ma 4, with as good a Spanish soul as any of the Cortes, who thought that in subjecting the Constitu tion to a revision, he should not perjure himself or violate the oath he had taken to observe and defend that Constitution. (Heat, and a laugh.) There was as great a diversity of opinion on this subject, be un tie' stood, among'st Spaniards as in this House on the Catholic Ques:i:th ;, yet, would it be said that, in re commending the admission of the Catholics to the first pi ivileges of our Constitution, which was in vio lation of the Coronation oath; that either the Hon. Member for Bramlber or himself Wished to lay per jury on the soul of any one, much less on that of the inheritor of the Clown ? He could have no objection to the experiment being tried as often as possible of . seeing how diff,rent Constitutions might suit, or be practically usef'il, provided that the effects of the ex periment were tobe visited only on the parties who tried it. It was argued that we had dune wrong in even let ting France be aware of our intention to maintain a strict neutrality ; and in order to give a colour to the supposition that this bad influenced the French Go vernment to take the decided ground she adopted of entering the Spanish territory, reference was made to dates, which proved, as was alleged, that on the 81st of March, our determination to preserve a strict neu trality was known, and, on the 7th of April, the French Army crossed the Bidassoa. Now, so far from this being true, Preece was kept in utter dark ness, as to our intention to remain neuter, from the time the French King made his well-known Speech to the Chambers up to the very period and after the period of the French Army entering Spain. Before that Speech our intended neutrality had been avowed, but after that Speech the profession of our intention to remain neutral was withdrawn ; and he himself, in anlinterview he had with the FiencliCharge d'Affaires.• told him that it*as in consequence of the purport of the Speech of the French King, that the pledge of our neutrality was withdrawn—(Wear). Was this truck ling to the French Government ?—(Loud Cheers.)— • And why bait' he done so? because he saw in r that Speech that we were about to be brought back to ancient times, when France did not conceal her settled enmity to British intetests ; and such being the case, would it have been right in him to set France at ease as to the consequences of such a step ? The declaration again of our neutrality was then" Wit hheld Until things were too far gone to make it Of ins pgrtanee to conceal our intentems; yet somehow an opinion gained ground that the British Government would be forced, in spite or itself, to take part with Spain by the influence of the popular voice. He was atraid this had a share in inducing the Ministry of Spain to brave the dangers of her situation. Nothing could relieve the regret which he felt at her present situation, but the idea of his being in the least acces sary to the grating disappointment which, she must have experienced from the calamities which have since awaited her, and which have produced results so con- . vary to the wishes and general feelings of th is country. if we had been accessary to plunge her in war, we should have been liable to the greater responsibility. The greater ground of objection rested on the diffi culty to prove that peace was our proper policy.— it was not enough that the country had a just cause of war; but it must be of such a nature that war must be prescribed as a duty ; in short, that it was our_duty with reference to Spain, to Portugal, to France, and the whole state of the world. So fat' this question was thoroughly met by the Member for Westminster, yhq, conscious that one of the first sinews of war was supplies , had stated that those whore he represented were willing to grant a sub , sidy for carrying on this war—(A laugh) —on the condition that this should be such a war as' they would like; in other words, a war of subjects against Kings; a concession to which I should not like to be a party; and not much unlike that 'Resolution passed by the National Convention in the year . l79S, offering assistance to all nations to throw off the yoke of M-maichical Government, and adopt that of a Republic like their own. He thought the House would be in a predicament similar so that of King James I. who having asked two Bishops in his Coun cil, iV4lliams and Neale, whether he had not a right to take his subjects' money? Williams said—" forbid; your Majesty is the breath or our nostrils." The same question being put to Neale, he said— " your Majesty is certainly at libsity to take brother Williams's money." If his Hitmiturable Friend, the Member tor Surrey, were applied to for a subsidy, from his constittieuts, he might ti,ate a simila r re mark, and say he was erttitled to take the Honour ' able . Member for Westminster's subsidy. He 01r. Canning) had been attempted to be bnbed by that Honourable Member recalling to his recollection the line of conduct which be him .. self pursied with respect to Spain in the year 1808, when the flame of freedom burst forth in that country, in 'despite of all the difficulties and disasters it had to encounter. H" c 'h o P un l rry k L ag tcs b th ac e k • t e:M th int e a nt ri me el 'anal straggle; must now r o e :r b e oe l:t tu i ai n 't s under the most difficult • cir cumstances—to the long and arduous trial aidlich we so nobly sustained in the Spanish territory, who dirt not feel excited in his bosom an enthusiasm which,