Star. — London, England, 1803-03-16 00:00:00

PARLIAMENTART PRUCEELL'AGS. HOUSE OF LORDS, TUESDAY, MARCH r 4. The fiveral Private Bills on the table were forwarded in' their 'riper:llm Bap& The Order of the Day was moved by Lord Pelham, for go lag into a Committee on the Bill for granting an Additional AlMwanee to his Royal Highnefs the Prince of Wales. Tbc Houle accordingly refelved into the Committee. The Earl of CaRLIS La, though he had meant to deliver his fentiments at confiderable length on this fubjcd, found it necialloy, under the prefent fituation of th country, to confine what be had to fay on the fitbied, with.r, a very limited compel's. He had no diflicull in Paying, however, that his Royal Highncfs the Prince of Wales had expe rienced the :non grofs iii treatment, in the man ner in which his affairs were now propofed to be arranged. A profpeet had been held out to the country, that iii confequence of this arrangement, his Royal tlighnefs would immediately be enabled to tefume his dignity; whereas, his Royal High refs, ailing on thole high principles of honour, by hich every part of his condo& had been diltin- Toothed, had informed buthHoules of Parliament that nu prof i led of this nature could be realized. In any other circumllances than the prefent, he! fhould have felt it to be his indifpenfible duty ro have refined in the molt unequivocal manner any propofition, the refult of which could not fail to be fo unfatisfadory. With the knowledge that his Royal Highncfs was animated with ihofe high feutiments of patriotifm and honour, which thofe polfeffed of his confidence had expreffed, and which he, in common with all who were belt acquainted with the charader of his Royal Highnefs, fully admitted, he was unwilling to forward any dif cuffion under the prefent arcumflances. While he faid this, he begged it to be underfiood that he did not at all relimmilh his right to bring forward a motion relative to the rights of his Royal High nefs under other circumliances. All mull admit his Royal Highnefs had not experienced that libe rality or generofity of treatment which was due to the HOT Apparent, and under any other circum fiances than the prefent he Would have thought it neeeffary to have pointed out the circunthances in the propofed arrangement of his Royal Highnefs's affairs, which appeared to him unfatisfaltory.— His Royal Highnefs bad, in manner highly cre ditable to himfelf, deprecated at the prefent mo ment any furthet difcufficin of this bufinefs, and it was not his with to countered this intention. This he was. induced to forego, not merely from the' wifhes of his Royal Highnefs, to which, how-1 ever. he was anxious to pay every degree of re fpeß, but from a confideration of the prefent cir- ' cumftances in which the country was placed.— An espreffion which had fallen from him in a former debate, had been the ground of confider. able mifreprefentation; and it was therefore rte cellar on the prefent occallon, that what he had then raid (hold be clearly undertluod. On that occafion he had re-narked, that the country was placed in a perilous Gtuation. Viewed in one light this might appear a reprefentation of the Rate of the cot/tory calculated to excite the greaten alarm. In the fenfe in which he had ufed it, it could bead no interpretation which could be dif cool-aging on national confiderations. He took this opportunity of explaining in what manner be desired his affertion to be undernood. He had faid that the fituation of the country was perilous, but in what manner did he with that affcrtion to be applied ? Did his idea of the val. loos fituation of the country depend on any dread of the inadequacy of our naval or military re fources to meet the combined exertions of Europe Was he to he anted, whether he doubted of the' adequacy of our naval power to contend againit all the exertions of whatever enemies might appear againft our independence ? The triumphs of the late war afforded us the molt fetisfedory prolpeifis of our future glory. Was he to be called on to declare whether the exertions of our land forces would not be found fulficient for the maintenance of our national independence and honour ? Such an idea as that no man could for a moment in dyke. Who, that had contemplated the whole exertions of our army during the war, could doubt of their prowefs in future contens ? Without dila ting on other fubjefts, it was fufficient to recall the attention of their Lordfhips to the honours ac. quired by the Britith troops in Egypt. What Ilii tilh valour had accompliflied in that part of the world need not now to be defcribed : the ninon. ments of their glory were loch as could never be effaced. Not even the Pillar of Pompey. or the Pyramids of Egypt, at a period beyond which the annals of hillory did not reach, could furvive 1 that glory which Britifh valour had acquired in that quarter of the world. He would nor. there- fore, be underßood by their Lordfhips, that when he fpoke of the perilous fituation of the country, be meant to allade to any dread which, in a fair eonten, :right be anticipated from any foreign Power. He wafted his uepreffion to be clearly tindernood, and he had no helitation in declaring dillinelly to their Lordfhips, that when he fpoke of the perilous fituation of the country, he meant folely to refer to the character of the prefent Mi.' ninty. The prefent was a moment which required the exertions of the higheft talents and the anif farce of the molt retentive information. It was a period when the country, called upon to make the greaten ex. rtions, demanded the co-operation of the moll extended knowledge. and the molt commanding. powers. Men of ordinary capacity I were not fitted to Ala in fo perilous a crifis. He had. en more accaGons than one. urgrercrredly declared his opinion refpelling the prefent ftry. The circumfiances in which the country was sow placed. did not admit of the language of, complacency. The honour, the independence-- slay, the very exifience of the country was nor to be t: Wed with at filch an interefiing cribs.— lie called on their Lordfhips to declare, whether the prvf•-nt Miniliry was compared of (etch Mate. rick as ought to pallets the confidence oldie coon. try ? It. would go farther than this. and lie woald ark, %holier any Noble Lord was prepared to Jay that he could vouch for the exidstice of this c tttt fidence ? For his own part, he could declare that he G so mots of it. Os the cuutrary, into whatevet companies he entered, he heard univer. fal complaints that the prefent Itliniary were not entitled to the confidence of the-country at fo pe rilous a crifis. This, therefore, was the ground of his declaration, that the (late of the country was perilous. It was perilous, becaufe the fervants of the Crown did not enjoy the confidence of the country. This was not a moment when the dig nity, the honour, even the exitience of the empire was to be compromifed, by delegating the defence of all that is deareft to us, to men in whofe exer tions no confidence can be placed. Let the prefent inefficient adminiftration be removed ; let the ta lents aad the wifdom of the country be united in his Majefty's Government. and he would ceafe to entertain any dread of the fafety (lithe country. — His Lordfirip, after dilating the fentiments he had delivered, had proceeded from the molt difinte relied motives. Lord PELHAM, in reply, contended that the greater part of what the Noble Lord had advanced had no connection with the quellion under conli &ration. The circumilances which had given rife to the prefent Bill were fufficiently explained, and the Noble Lord, while he complained that his Royal Highnefs the Heir Apparent had not been treated with fulficient liberality and juftice, had fpoken a language which that illuftrious perfonage himfelf had difavowed. With reference to what had been Paid of the character of his Majelly's prefent Minifters, it was not for him to offer any detailed reply. How far the affection of the Noble Lord was corral, that the fervants of the Crown did not enjoy the confidence of the country, and were inadequate to manage the reins of Govern ment in the prefent fituation of affairs, were queftions which Noble Lords were entitled to dir. curs. He had only to obferve for himfelf and his colleagues, that the lunation which they now held was not one of which they were ambitious. If they had foceeeded to public fitiiations, to which they were incompetent, the fault was not to be attributed to any intrigue on their part for ob taining poffeffion of the profits or the honours of office. In accepting of their offices, they had merely yielded to the wilt of their Sovereign ; and it, at a critical period, the management of public affairs fell into their hands, the fault did not lie with them, but with thole who, from confide rations of duty, thought it incumbent on them to withdraw from his Majefly's councils. With re fpal to himfelf particularly he had to fay, that he was not ambitious of public preferments or power. This was not the firft time in which he had taken a (hare in public affairs. He had been called upon to engage in public affairs at a . period of peculiar difficulty, and he trolled that no part of his condu.l in that arduous trills was liable to cenfure. On every occafion he had endeavoured to difcharge the ditty he owed to his Sovereign and his country. The fituation which he now filled was not one which he had particularly courted : but he fhould, as he had heretofore done, endea vour to difcharge its duties to the bell of his abi lities. His Lord(hip concluded with a few ob fervations relative to the immediate quellion, hut nothing of novelty occurred in this part of the argument. The Earl of CARLISLE (poke Monty in esplana• lion. He resftated his former obfervations relative to the manner in which the Prince of Wales bad ; been ailed. He could not but repeat. his Royal Highnefs had not been ufed with that liberality which national liberality and honour required.— I He melted to the fubjed of the imbecility of the prefent Adminiftration, and endeavoured to for tify all his previous fcntiments on this part of the ruble!. It bad been urged by the Noble Lord that the prefent Minifters had involuntarily ac cepted their prefent fituations. This appeared to bins a very ex traordinary fort of polition, but per• I haps it was very convenient to throw the burden of reiponfibility on the Lte Miniflry. How far the late Miniftry were jultifiable in relinquilhing their public fituations he would not now difeufs ; but he would fay, that to accept of a fituation involving the management of a great empire at a moment of unparalleled difficulty, could rot but espnfe thole accepting . of fuch a fitnation to very great reflsonlibility, it they were conlcious that they were not in poffellion of abilities adequate to fo very important and inte'refting a charge. The late Mi- ' ni thy had been acc tiled of encouraginq plots for the deftration of the Ertl Magistrate of France. Some • of them bad been charged with inftigating affaffins to prepare the infernal machine which was to ye complifh his deft:sifting). It was needlefs for him to exprefs to their Lordlhips his conviltion that fuch accufations were not in the ftir,hteft degree entitled to notice. This, hot he might fan ' that if the Right Honourable Ceastleman (Mr. Pitt) who lately prelided over Isis itlajelly's Conn efts, and to whole alive exertiorat, in emanation ! with :hole of his colleagues in office, he could not but attribute the falvatioa of the country, lent the aid nt his commanding talents to the fop- port of the perm Miniftry, or was he the author of a Miniftry lo utterly deft; lute of talent, he was the author of a machine. elfonially deftruaive to the bell interells of the country. His Loid(hip concluded by recommencing the renunciation of all party eonfiderations, rind the adoption of loch a fyftem of union, of talent, and •.f feeling, as; alone could animate the energies and route the cn thufsafm of a great and a free people. The Loan Csawor LLOR in a (hurt, bait very ani mated fpeeals, repelled the charges which toe No ble Lord who (poke left had produced agahaft the' prefent Minil►y. 'l•he fituation which he now held was one, which above all others, be bad coveted, but he felt a perfed confcioufnefs that in no one inftanee had be failed in the difcharge of his duty. ! The Noble Lord had raid a great deal of the want of confidence which the Country poffeffed in the prefent Ministry. He was at a lots to know where she evidence of this want of confidence was to be foi , :d. Was it to be found in the Parliament of the country ? Certainly no fuch conclufion could be drawn from the manner in which every one of I their oteafures had been received. Indeed of any want of confidence, there had been icanifelledythe , snoß cordial and animating Inpport. The Male Lord bad dated, that in every company into which be had oceafiga to euta, the general caseating° turned en the imbecility of the prefent Adosiai firation and the want of confidence which the Country placed in their exertions. This was a fort of affertion which was very eafy to make, and weak indeed would the prefent AdsninilLratioa be ; unworthy would they fhew themfelves of the confidence of Parliament or the Country, if fuch affertions could in the finallefi degree excite their unealinefs. An Adminiftration which had not itreagth enough to rapport the weight of filch ae curauons, teas an Adminiaration of which every man of common honour, talent, or honefty would be afhamed to form a part. In no one inflance had the meafures of the prefent Adminiftration been !itch as not to . meet with the fupport of Par liament and the Country, and as long as this eon. tinned to be the cafe, whatever might be the lan guage of the Noble Lord and thofe with whom he was aecultomed to affociate, Minifters he was convinced, would difcover a degree of firmnefs which would enable them to pay to fuch infinu;. titans only that degree of attention which their unimportance required. The Bill then pallid through the Committee without further obfervation, and the Report was ordered for to-morrow. Previous to the ad Reading of the frith Poft Of9:e Duty Bill, Lord Auc mmmmm gave notice that he timid in the Com mittee move for expunging a Claufe by Which a Bill profeffedly applicable to Ireland alone, was made to include England. The Noble Lord took oceafitto to remark that feveral Mat Bills now on the Table were liable to a limilar objcetion, and there• fore he thought it ncceffary to call the attention of the Houle to the fubjed. After a wort explanation betwixt Lord Pa caw se, the Earl of 1./MERICIL. the Duke of Noes° ax and Lord AIICICLAND. the Bill was read a ad time, and committed for to-morrow. hail MOIRA moved the Committee on the Vexatiogs Arreft Bill. The Noble Lord fisted that he withed the Chutes in. the Bill now to be filled up and amended, and the Bill to be reported and re-committed for a fubtnquent day. This propofition being acceded to, the Houle reolyed into the Committee. Several new Claufes were propoled by lords Ecurtmoitooott and Arc.orLiy. The Houle then retunisd, saddle report was ordered for to•morrow.—Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. A put= from the Stamp-016ct prefented the Lottery Ac counts of lilt year—Ordered to lie on the table. nit M. W. Rune r brought up a Petition from J. Hill, a witnefs at the Crest Grimfby Ekclion, expreing forrow feu• his mama, and praying the forgivenefe of that Houle. After the Petition was read. the Honourable Member moved, that the Petitioner be brought to the Bar tomorrow, and difeharged. The Clink (Southwark) Paving Bill was read a fecund time, and committed. The Report of the Grand Jundlon Canal Bill was brought up ; and on the motion that the Refolutions be agreed to, Sir J. ANDECION mfr, and objedted to the claufe which granted a power to the fahfcribers of making fuels improve ments in their plan as to than from time to time might appear prom This was a power which Osould not be granted to any let of men • for there was no knowing where their improve ments would cud. He mould therefore move, that the words in the Bin conveying that power be expenged..—This amendinent was agreed to. The lath Cußoms and Eseife Duty BM wit read a third time and paired. Mr. Dien N ion gave notice, that it was his intention to morrow to move for leave to bring in a Bill fur fufpending, for a further time, profscutions againft the Clergy for Nets-re fidcnce. A hfritage from the Lords informed the Houle, that their Loninsips had agreed to the Mutiny BU with Auseadateuts, and to two Nenrahzatioa Bills, to which they defaced the coo cu rrence of that Houk ; and to two Roads Dills, without any Mr. Cog a r rammed, that that be bid before the Knife an Eitimate of the charge attending the ray and Cioaddng of the Militia of Ireland Wt yaw—Ordered. RR COUNTY ELECTION. Mr. W. DICKINION, Chairman of the Hereford County F.ledtiou Committee, reported, as their refedutims, " that J. Bofeawen. U. is nut duly etedted." "That Sir George CornewaU is duly defied for the Paid County." " That the Petitl , n of the Petitioners in this cafe was neither frivolous nor madams, and that them Is Rill a vacancy in tha Reprcfentation of the County, in the room of John Goers Cut terell, Efti.whofe elation was null and void." Ordered, " That the Speaker do iffue his warrant for the elc&on of a Reprefenta i.e for the County of Hertford, in the room of John Gems Cotterell, Efq." RAN[ 01 IRELAND. Mr. COR.:r,purfuant to the notice he had given a few days force, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to refirift, for a time further to be limited, the Miles of call) from the Bank of Ireland. He thought it onneceffary to trefpafs on tire attention of the Houfe, by any obfervattons to prove the policy of this nseafure. farther than jolt to remark that, con:idled as were the commerce, the credit, and the interea of both countries, the reftridion which had been thought neceffary, in continuance upon the Bank of England, called, as a matter of coolie, fur a firnilar reltrieion upon the Bank of Ireland. With refpea to any meafure of enquiry touching the affairs of that Bank, which might be 'thought =edify to precede a meafure of this kind. he had only to obfirre, that in the previous meafure, of reffriaion, the adoption of which had been thought neceffary, not the moll diltant doubt ILA ever etifled on the perfeelt fulidity and folven• cy of that Bank, nor was any enquiry ever thought reptilite ; but a reflriaion having been pat upon I the Bank of England. that on the Bank of Ireland grew nut of it, as a neceffary confequence. He eon eluded by moving for leave to bring in a Bill, which was accordingly agreed to, and * Commit tee appointed to prepare and bring in the Lime. IRISH MILITIA. The Honk having refol•ed id& into a Cont. toittee on the Irina Militia A& The SICRITARY at WAR rote and moved, that it he an inflruflion to the Committee that they da confider of making further provillons fin filling up the vacancies of the Militia of Ireland, and that the Lord Lieutenant be empowered to draw upon the Lords of the I'reafury for inch toms as may be ne• ceffary for filling up the fame, provided the• do not exceed four guineas for each private man. Mr. Esssor waived to know if the meafure pro- poled was to be extended to the whole of the Mi litia of Ireland . Mr. %Vietnams obferved, that it had been re folved to enrol the Militia in Ottober ur Novem ber lan ; but it was found that with fo low a ►oon ty as two guineas. which was then propeSed, it was impoffible to raife an effeiffive Militia. The, prefent meafure bad it in view to enlarge the power ro be granted to the Lord I.ieutenant, thAt he might be enabled to offer a higher bounty, in order to accelerate the enrolment. Mr. Es.csor could not help obferving, that fuch a meafure evidently tended to (Avert the military fyilem of the country. the conllitutional mode of rang the Militia was by ballot, and not by bounty ;betides ' by offer ing fuch larg e films t‘ Licit enticed men to Ray at home, mull they not be dif couraged from entering the regular army ? If the pretent mode was purfued, it would not be a Mi. but a Fencible Corps that it would raife.—.. It was obvionfly a direa attack on the recruiting fervice for the army for who would expo& them. (elves to the hardflaips of foreign fervice and the unheadthipcfs of foreign climates, when they cohid receive fo large a bounty fur remaining at home t He hoped the Committee would ferioufly p au f t before they voted for a force of more than forty thoufand metyto be locked up in Ireland—a force which was merely applicable to defentive opera tions. Mr, AVICKHAM ebferved, that many of his Hn. nourable Friend's fcruples would have been re- moved, had he taken the trouble to read the Bill. He would there find that it went rather to proteet, than to attack the Militia Laws. The bonntiti heretofore amounted often to 6!. and even to 101. per man. What was now propofed was not to exceed four guineas. How then could it obilrua the recruiting of the regular army t There were betides a variety of very cogent reafons, which of late had very properly ditroaded him from having recourfe to the mode of ballot. Exceptionable perfons were the &ft to oiler themfelves, in which the Officers could not confide. 'l'he Militia mai therefore be railed by bounty, or not at all. Hi s Honourable Friend feemed to infinuate that the Irifh Militia amounted to about 40,000 men. No filch thing. At the utmorl, when the Aa wa s fira propofed, they did not amount to more than 27,000, and now they did not exceed 111,000. Mr. &Laos- complained that the fyitent by bal. lot was never gem:rally enforced, and that unlefs the Militia was railed upon that fyitem, it was so Militia at all. The Sscasraer at WAR rote and obferved, it was pretty extraordinary, that the Hon. Gentle. man, who was the fir( to found the trumpet of alarm on the dangerous fttuation of the country, and to arraign the inefficiency of the public force, and the fnpinenefs of thole chargedlwith the pubic defence, the moment that the alarm of real danger is excited in the country, and that every exertion is punted forward to Rrengthen the country, that this Hon. Member thnuld be the firft to rife in his place, and throw cavilling impediments in the way of that exertion. The Hon. Gentleman had been told, from the bell authority, thatthe completion of the Militia torte with the neceffary expedition, was found impracticable by ballot, would he then argue, that there was to be no Militia in the coun try ? The very principle, to which he now object ed, was not an innovation at this day, but already a part of the high Militia law, which by a former Ad enabled the Lord Lieutenant to give a bounty of two ineas. The Hon. Gentleman was prefent while that Bill pafed through the Hoare, and fat (lent, without offering a fingle oblation. If his antipathy was fo flrong to the novelty of the prin ciple, why did he not refill it us &site. infiesd of referring his oppornion to that cries in the affairs of the country, when he begged leave to obferve, it mull appear fo highly invidious ? He was ready to agree with the Hon. - Gentleman, that the con ' Ritutional principle of the Militia, was railing them by ballot; but the predict bad always been of necetlity, in direct contradidtion to the principle— for in nine inflames out of ten, the balloted man (erred not in perfon, but by fubltitute ; where then, he would Mk the Hon. Gentleman, was the mighty difference in effect between a militia force, coo. poled of fubflitutes, and one of recruits ? for in both cafes the men were railed by bounty. Sir L. Paasoas obferved, that there were two modes of recruiting the public forces of the Coon- I propofed under the projeded arrangement; the one, for recruiting the Militia, the other for the troops of the line ; and there *ere many men who would enter the Militia at a (mall bounty, but would not be induced to enter into the line for any confederation. The fervice of the line was not, therefore, impeded by fuels men entering the Militia fervice ; the Ilrength of the country would be materially advantaged by rat:feting to both modes. It was a fad well known, that, however defirable it reall, be, under the circumftances of the Union, to ACfintilate as much as pafible the principles of laws and cuftoms in both countries ; yet however lamentable, it was true, that the coo- Ititution of the army differed totally and almolt ir• reconcileably in one from the other. In Ireland. for inftance, the Catholics of the army were per mitted the ezercife of their religion : here it was ntherwife. Other circumltances were created by a recent convullion in that country, to which be wfhed not to advert, hot which created many ob. jeelioss to railing the Militia by ballot ; as by that means it would inevitably happen that many per. lons concerned in the late rebellion, would be chaos to fern., and whom the Officers appointed to command that Militia wouldbe extremely lorry to find in their ranks. He had the honour of be. ing Governor of a County. and in confequence of the notice he had received for calling out the Mt litia. he had convened a meeting of the Depot) , Governors, who were unanimoully decided, that recruiting by bounty, and not by ballot, was the only mode by which a choice of proper men fur the Militia conk, be effected. Colonel Firaotias.to bferved, that it bad been all along found impratticable in Ireland to com• plete the Militia by ballots. That in every county they were obliged to retort to, the mode of bal. hitting in that country, as it had been originally in this, was extremely obnoxious to the people. — In his mind, the bell and laurel mode of raifing the Militia force, as well as the moll Conllitutional and call oppreffive, was by bounty, the fund for which &mild be levied, as it now is, by the Grand Juries of the different counties, who were the nown, legitimate, efiablifted afeffors of acreacle taxes for local fervice, and againft whore impolls the people never mannered. By this mode, as every man paid taxes in proportion to his acres, in every man would pay towards the public de fence (Redly in the ratio of the property be bad to defend. Front this fund it was, and not from the public putfe, that the bounty propofed by this classic would be paid, and by limiting it to four