Star. — London, England, 1817-05-02 00:00:00

pommy the House sh,•tild resolve itf.el into a Comin'oi••• on rh.• West India Act, and on the Bermuda Trade Act. TIIE WOnL TRADE. Mr. BURRELL rose to present a Petition from t! , e Wool Glowers u: Brighton, in S;issex, praying, that the importation of foreign wool ttrigla he dis couraged, or some enckorragement given to the ex ist:Twin!) of Bit sh wool. HT stated that the prayer of cite Petition involved a question of the utmost importance with reference to the commercial policy of the country, and that the reasonableness o f it was shewn by the price of British wool, which, within the lag eight year:, had then ;50 per cent. through tie qiial.tity of foreOr ul itopqrted. He also cootenJed, that the revenue w n not itn.reased by the importation of fo r ei g n w(; .a., prayed that an inquiry might be in .tituted ori the stitrj , ct, and that they might have an opportunity to substantiate by evich•nc-... the allegation, in thtjr Petit;on. He moved that t!te Petition be brong:it Mr. 11 ESTEItN could riqt refrain truto saying a few words on this subject, as lie held a similar Pea- tinit ;n his hind. The ‘Vo.)I-;rimers li..d a Lir cl son to ti .e :mention of the limite, itn.l he 1101),:d tilAt 'twit c is, w..01d be particulaiiy considered by . the Hour.. The tiou,e 1,4 d, 14st year, iecogi.izyd the distr..s.; under which this branch o' t:a.lcl4hotired, the country was alasoluie!y intoili•ed with foreign wool, every t•cility wes mivin to tile immotation of foreign W 0 ,3 ; ev:ay facility to the 10 L.g it won!. grower and the loreign wool welt:hart, while the 1;660 1 w. 0:-grower WAS fettered i n VICI; way as Opt!' itcti to tl,e t• re it Ciscutil iwozient of this impor tant letanci of produce. He therrfoie thought that the H use would neglect its duty if it did not ippuint a Committee ti.) inqiiire into the laws relative to the importaticu of fi;rcign wool. But it was ni.ire espe cially necessary that this shnuld be done, Irons that which tuck place in the Committee appointed last )e.ir to inquire into the causes of the disirei,sed state of agriculture, because in dirt Committee flu ol'•por tt: was afforded to the wool-growers to tom: for ward to give that evidence of which lie wished the House to be in possession. Lord LASCELLES wished to notice what the Honourable Gentleman who spoke last had ctitl referente to it* Committee appointed last Session. The first thing done by that Committee was to fins t its inquiry into the wool trade to the general question of agrictiltura . I distress ; and with this view, to con fine-itself to the state of the wool market, so as to etclude All the questions about the preference due to • foreign wool, er the effect produ ed on the nischi eery employed its the tvot.llen manufacture, and the various other questions involved in an extensive ge neral inquiry. 'Cre.e Honourable Gentleman said, that the wool-growqrs had not an opportunity of la•iiig heard before the Conim'ttee of last year ; whereas the fact was otherwise, for that Committee was appouved before the Easter recess, and when met A .m(1 after the recess, an opportunity was given to the wool-growers to come tore/4rd, but not oi.e of them appeared. It the Committee now proposed was asked fur on the principle of excluding foreign wool, he should at once disagree horn anz motion for the appointment of a Committee on any such principle, at such 4 time. He would disagree from it on this principle—that a duty on the importation of a raw material, which was wrought up in this country, and which employed the labour and capital of the country, produc .d as much advantage to ae landtd interest as could be received by any forced encouragement of the growth of British wool. Mr. DAVIES GI LBER said, that he also had a Petition from Wool growers on the South Doss us, the prayer of which was the same as that now pre sented. Although he very much concurred with the Noble Lord who spoke last in his general principles, yet be must agree with the petitioners, that it would be expedient to ley a 'motive Ate duty on the importa-, lion in the coarser kinds of foreign wool, which could not in any degree affect the nianufacturing interest, or the f ore i g n trade. The peCtioners wished, either a duty on the importation of foreign wool, or a bounty on the exportation of British wool ; but they would prefer a tax on the importation of the foreign produce. Mr. FRANK LAND LEWIS wished to say a few _ _ words as to the Committee of last year. He well remembered that the N. Lord (Lascelles) had said, that the Committee could do little more than g.ve a rod excuse fur not going into the general en quirt'. Ail that the C really did, was to make such a superficial and general enq•iiry as ena bled them to report to the H. use, that the agticul. tural distress was not owing to the st.ite of the wool trade. If any Member of the Committee attempted to put a question to any of the witnesses who appear ed before the Committee, which touched the general question, as to the expediency of permitting importa tion, he was immediately stopped. He therefore maintained that the House was bound to institute a complete inquiry into the state of the wool trade, with reference to the interests of the British wool grower. Mr. CURWEN thought it was necessary that an enquiry should be instituted ; but was aware that it' would lead to a very wide investigation, and involve questions of foreign policy of great importance. Mr. SHIFFNAL observed, that all the petitioners wished for was a fair remuneration, and that they would prefer a tax on the importation of foreign w. 01. The Petition was then brought up, read, ordered to lie on the table, and to be printed. Mr. BURRELL presented a similar petition from the Wool-growers of Sussex, which was disposed t•f in the same way. Mr. D. GILBERT presented a similar petition from the Wool growers of Lewes, in Sussex, and Mr. WESTILKN one from the Wool-growers of Essex, which were both read and ordered to Ise on the table and to be printed. HOMAN CATHOLIC CLAIMS. Mr. GRATTAN held in his hand a petition from the Corporation of Dublin, which he regretted that most respectable body had , not, by availing them selves of an ancient privilege which they claimed, presented to the Howe by their own officers, as it wNild have relieved him from %hat he felt to be a vety unpleasant duty. It was the petition of the Corpration of Dublin against the Claims of the Ca. th 'tics. AS he had the honour to be one oldie Re prt•teritatives of the City of Dublin, he was, in that capdei y, instiuctrJ io peseta it—but, at the same ttnie, he o'u't c.inte4s that, he vitally differed from tor SenetilUtili• Saprested to this petiuoa by his worthy and honourable constituents—he differed from them' totally and sincerely. But, as he did not think it his duty to pass any criticisms or observations on the pe tition of the City which he had the honour to repre sent, he would merely beg leave to lament that the ta , k was imposed upon him of doing thAt which he would not presume to condemn.—*rhe petition wab then brought up, tead,.and ordered to lie on the table. REFORM. Sir FRANCIS BUR DEI"F rose to present a pe tition praying for Parliamentary Reform, from the freeholders and other inhabitants of the borough of St. Ives, in the county of Huntingdon, and took the opportunity of saying a few words in general terms Qn the corrupt state of the representation, and the passiveness with xvhich the people had born the vie,- lent attacks lately made on the Constitution.—The Petition w 44 read. and ordered to lie on the table. Sir F. BC t) Err said, that he would bring for ward his motion on the subject of Reform on the first open day atter Tuesday, the 20th of May. r FRANCE IMPORT. Mr. DAVIES GILBE RT moved, that the Order of the 1) ty for a Committee on the first Report of the S• hcr Coni,iiittee on Finance should be read, for the purpose of postponing it till to-morrow, which would probably be the most convenient day for discussing it. Mr. BROUGHAM wished that ►t should he post poned for a few days, as he knew Clete were several Members anximis to take a part in the discussion who cou:d not be present to.mortow. Mr. D. GILBERT said, he only wished to fix the mt►st convenient day. Lord CAST LE It EA G 11 said that it was intended to introduce Bills frainded on the Report of the Com mittee to regulate or abolish the various offices men• tinned in it. It was highly desirable to have . these Bills introduced as coon as possible, for it would not be proper that Bills of such importance should reach the other House at a late perio lof the Sessiln. As the Report was to be disciisfed in a Committee of the whole House, it might be commenced to-morrow r.ti the understanding that thegeneral discussion would not be closed to-morrow. . Mr. BROUGHAM said, that the ground on which he wished I,r the delay of a day or two did not seem to he understood by the Noble Lord. If she matter mally did press, let it come on to-.sight. I tuleed he siw no reason why the House should not proceed to it to-night. The question row was not, whether they should proceed to the discussion this night ? but whe. ther it should be fixed for a night witen hr knew it would be highly inconvenient or impossible for se veral Members to attend ? The general principle, as to the mischief produced by the appointment of the Select Committee — as to the &snip which it had thrown over the inquiries of the Hawse during the whole Session—all that would come to be discusseJ ill the Committee on the Report, and not on the Bills founded on it. Mr. 1). GILBERT said, that he was prevented from btioging on the discussion this night, on account of two notices, which were likely to occupy the whole attention of the House (alluding to those of Mr. Pon. sonby and Mr. Tierney.) Mr. TIERNEY saw no reason why the House should not now proceed to the discussion of the Re port —(Fleir, hear,from the Oppoti'l , n). He was very attiilus that the motion should come on, and was only sorry it had not come on sooner. All that the Commrttee had done was known long ago ; and in their Report they had stolen from other Reports, without having the grace to acknowledge whence they purloined —(4 ku74.) Mr. Serjeant ONSLOW said, that his motion to night w Juld occupy the time of the House only for a very tew minutes. Mr. PONSON BY said, that he did not mean to press the oration relative to the Welsh Judges, of which he had given notice, as he had determined to alter the nature of that motion. T►ie order of the day was then read, and Mr. DA. vies GILBERT moved that to-morrow be appointed for the discussion. Mr. BROUGHAM wished to know whether it was resolved to persevere in refusing this, almost the first request from his side of the Howe, to postpone a discussion for two days—a refusal so contrary to the general courtesy of the House ? It it were per sisted in, then those on his side of the House would know• how to act. Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that the Army Estimates had been put eff from to-morrow till Mon day, and if the order book was looked at, it would be found that every day in the next week was fully occupied. It was not intended, in the discussion of the Report to-morrow, to involve the general ques tion, or to call upon the House for any sweeping ap probation of the Report. It the Bills to be founded on the Report were not soon brought in, it augmented the chance that they could not be passed during this Session. Mr. lIERNEY said, that if the Noble Lord would not agree to continue these offices for two days, sine cures were in a bad way indeed—(if laugh). It was finally fixed, that the discussion on the Fi nance Report should take place on Monday, and that the Army Estimates should be taken on Wednesday. wnsii Juvon. Mr. PONSONIIY said, that he had received a number ot colsummications, made to him relative to the administration of justice inWales, which induced him to put off the motion of which he had given no tice, and to embrace a much larger field ot inquiry. He had not spoken to one Gentleman wi:o was con nected with Wales who approvtd of the mode in which jastice was administered in Wales. He there fore moved that a Committee be appointed to inquire into the laws relative to the administration of justice in Wales. He hoped the House would excuse his not having given any notice of this motion. Sir W. W. WYNNE seconded the ;notion, and said, he was convinced that the laws relative to the administration of justice in Wales required conside rable alteration. Lord CASTLEREAGH said, he would not op pose the motion; but he wished it to be understood, that in agreeing to it be did not mean to throw any slur on those most respectable persons concerned in the administration of justice in Wiles, the mode of which WAS certainly different from what pervaded the other parts of the kingdom; and tie therefore thought it a very fair subject for Parliamentary inquiry. Mr. PONSONBY guarded himself particularly against being thought to mean any slur on tie re spectable persons alluded to by the Noble Lord. The ATTORNEY-GENtRAT. said, that if the motion of which the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Ponsonby) had given notice had been fat night forward, he should have fat it Lis duty to remain io his place, for the purpose of giving any explanation that might he required. He wished now to be allow ed to say a few words on a suhject of such a nature, th.st this was the only place wh.:re he could th; i .k decorous in him to enter upon it. He h.,.1 handy gone down to perform the duties of his r ffiee, wle he understood that a question had been asked iu this House by an Honourable Baronet (S:r M. W. It'd ley), whether he and his Honourable and Learned Friend (Mr. Serjrant Best) had not pot off the time of commencing the Sittings at Chester for a special retainer ? It was only necessary for him to state, as I to his Honourable and Learned Friend, that tl:e time for the commencement of his official duties in Wald was fixed and notified in the Gazette some time pre vious to the date of his appointment, and even before :!is predecesser hid any thought of resigning. As to himself, he could only say, he had, since his appoint ment, allowed the Associate Judge to appoint the time for the commencement of the Sessions, and in this way, the 30th of March last was appointed ter the commencement of the last Sessions, which pare him the opp etiinity of going to I. tonceston. Two schemes were sent to him for his aperobation, one of which accorded with leis going to Launceston, and that lie chose. The truth was, that i-i point of pe cuniary advantage, it would have been mere advan tageous for him to have had the sessions in Wales commence oa an earlier day, so as to enabled him to be in town by the first day of Term.— That this would have been the not profitable ar rangement for him was notorious to every one who knew any thing of the business of the Courts. On comparing the dates of the commencement of the Ses sions in Wales, from 1759 till t 1 pres e nt time, he' found that in every instance they had commenced as late as this year. It had been said that he was not present at the first day of the opening of the Court, and had left that duty to be done by the Clerk. The truth was, that there was no business done on the first day of the Sessions, and it never was the practice for the Chief Justice to he present on that day It was also said, that for his own private emolument, he had delayed the trial of the prisoners. Nylon men saere accused, they were made tie tell what they had done, and he must therefore state, that since h, had the honour to fill the office of Chief Justice of Ches ter, he had caused the prisoners to be tried three day , sooner than they had ever turn before. He had troubled the House with this much, that he might stand acquitted of the flagrant crime of having put :iff the administration of public justice for his own private emolument. Sir M. IV. RIDLEY said, that as the Honourable and Learned Gentleman had alluded to hint, he felt himself bound to say, that it was with no view of cAumnialing the Honourable Gentleman that he had put the question which had been alluded to. I - I , : had information on which he thoe p tlit is could rely. that the Sittings at Cl ever had been postponed re, account of other engagements of the Honourable and Learned Gentleman ; and although he was leered to give credit to all that had now been stated, yet be WAS not at all persuaded that the Sittings at Chestet 1 had not commenced later than tined by nine days. The Honourable and L-arned Gentleman acknow ledged, that of two plans which had been submitted to him, he had chosen tha which gave him the op portunity of going to Launceston. It was not her nim to determine any thing as to this, or whether it WAS usual for the Attorney-General to take special retainers? He believed that ha- was correct in saying that the Gentlemen of the B-.r had experienced great inconvenience from the arrangement made by the Honourable and Learned Gent! man. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL explained. The present Chief Justice, Lord Ellenhorough, accepted general tetaiuers up to the last day that lie held the office of Attorney-General. Mr. C. W. WYNNE could state positively that no delay had taken place which could produce 11,e leas: inconvenience. The only thing which he had to com plain of the Honourable and Learned Ge.ntkitran was, that he had not appointed a Barristet to sit on the first day at the formal opening of the Court, in stead of having the Associate sir, which was unusual. fie gave the Honourable and Learned Centleman much credit for having expedited the trial of pri. soners, which was now brought on on the fits: day atter the Court, instead of the fourth, as had tot m.-rly been the case. Mr, ABERCROMBIE said, that on the shortest 'calculation, the commencement of the Sessions had been put off two days; and that the Judge. itiftead of being at the first place on the Circuit on Easter Day, should have been at the third place on that day. Mr. BARHAM thought that much inconvenience might occur horn the Associate holding the Court on the first day. After a few words from Sir Jon); Ntclou.r. and Mr. MACDONALD, the Motion was agreed to, and a Committee arpointed. Mr. BENNET V presented a Petition from a Mr. John Delresne, late of Leeds, complaining of the ar bitrary powers of the Commissioners or B inkruptcy. —The Petition e•as read, and ordered to lie on the table. Mr. CALVERT, alluding to the observations made yesterday on the subject 4 , 1 frauds in the Hop Trade, said' he conceived, from the Reports which had appeared in the different Papers. that he might be suprosed by that respectab:e body, the. Hop Fac tors and Merchants, to have stigmati>ed their con duct. lie wished it to be understood, that he Lea: thrown out no allu►ion whatever to them in the re marks which he had thought proper to make. INTEREST CV NIONEV. Serjeant ONSLO%V, on rising to move fa leave to bring in a Bill to repeal the Laws relative to the rate of Interest, said he should not detain the H(,use by repeating the observations he had already made on this subject. The Laws relative to Usury wen• founded on no principle of equity, but on gross iglu , . ranee of the relative and fluctuating value rf money, and on the principle that it was improper to take in terest among Christian men. It had been said on former occasion, that this was not the proper time u. introduce such a measure, but that it would be better to wait till the Funds were more regular. He hat' yielded to this opinion, and he was happy that he hat done so, btcause he was now convinced that tic dOil!I could any Langer be me:witted un the fie :lonia now be brief in bis observations. P.c should not mention the history of the different len t that had been enacted on this subject, n..t ew e sic, thet in them all interest was called usury i n i i;„ time of Henry VIII. the taking of any interest at ap, though in the re•ii et ).1. was held to Le irtetal ; yard VI. I 4• per rent. wi , . the cemmon interest. T; e I act sees, that the mere Cte r,,:e r,t interest w ar re . ..trained, the more tistiry sere; !,r( vaimt ; and the p i! , ;ei.t estioing Act , had only teeded t• increase unity, end be ,r down entertimate mer, t. ho had their rif! A i ts in tde. worse by yin se operati. 0. tie would nil.; ;ay that nil loan Lod been rn.t...e by (...leivernstient iti ts. • memery of man whet e the pubic interest bad been A irecteA by these &mites ; Istc or .e n.. - Wed rrt. lonked into the nature of Goveretnent securitec t 3-.1, trusted to them alone, et ithout Werence to any ,S.. twos. Indeed we bad now .t very striking instant, 1:1•v: little these :statutes affected U. vernMevit secu rities; Ezchrquer ilil:s being neg ciated at a :Tho : !, lower interest, on account of the anxiety et Mose who have nrone:t to invest it in them The same was the case. with respect to the public Funds. where, while the capital was s t.e, the interest was paid regularly. On the whole, the state of the money market was such, that it could not he denied the period web ncw arrived when the former obji coons of the Right Hon. Geittleman cpposite were invalidated. Ti e n p, Cents. had now teac.!ed a prooer state to admit of such a triiiasure as he proposed; they 11: - ..ti advanced about lo per cen•. since he spoke nn the subject last year. With respect to the landed interest, it ;here was any set of men on whom the ;resent laws (Tr rated more hardly than on ^theirs, these were the) ; for those who wanted to borrow on mortgage vt; driven to the most ruinous expedients. Til..y had been obliged to give, by way of annuity, trim 10 to 14 or 15 per Cent. tor four and event five tires.—. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman atlud. a inciJc• - tally to an eminent public character, wt om he cad not name, but to whose spirited exertions, the House would agree with him, too much applause could not be given, who had been forced to resort to these terms, and who was now, in consequence, one hundred thou sand pounds out of pocket, and yet these were t ' s 6..ntlemen who were supposed to derive advantte .: ;e I troll' the law as it now stood. It had been tn, rely t i obtain money alone that this expedient had been t;- sorted to. He denied that the landed noel est had benefited. Estates had been brought to market at a time most impreyer for their sale The It nder el money would always make every inquiry into the na. titre of time seem ity before he advanced it, as well as I into the responsibility of the tenant, and he looked to the chance ..1 repayment. It had been objected, Mat the repeal of these Acts would lend t.: put capital iato the hands of projectiirs—hut what erionia were tr determine what were or what v.ere nut project, and whim schemes were rash t.r w!:.tt usetut ?—(Hear.) Ile must repeat his opinion, that those whom they were most intended to benefit wine trust ii.jurett by them. He would instance !rel.:nil in particular, where the deficiency of capital was now felt mote than ever. llc hid teceived a letter from a Gentleman is that part of the kingdom, eiiraplainia, mist grim, rously of the Want. of capital, as the great desider.i tum that depressed all the energies et ore pe.•ple. Ile diould say nothing more on the siibject, titan mrtly t h a t o n e n o e t n4 for lease to hr•ng in the Illi, Ire should not propose to Ell op the blanks with a re s term than several years. He then moved—"e ri.:t leave be given to bring in a Bill to I epeal the laws that regulate or restrain the rate of interest." Sir FREDERICK FLOOD de-lxied, that he gave his most hearty aptly &gallon to the motion of the Hon. and Learned Gain tertian. because he was Con vinced that it would be iil great benefit t.. rte - L.Teind Kingdom. and particulai fy to Leland. tilotiey was the representative of labour, and it should be left t r find its own way. It was truly said, that lrehe.d wanted only capital, for it would make the NeLil..y and Gentry come and reside there, and tl.en th.a country would be equal to any part of the gl Le.— Nothing was wanted ii benefit Ireland but no ra', and the residence of the Nobility and Gently. Had they only money Inc then :Iberia:int population, to employ the well di, posed people and assist die ma. nufacturers, Ireland won!‘: then be a happy ceuntry. Without money no country could prosper. Tt e Hl,:l• Baronet then read au tALI act front .t parnpilet On eie injurious crnisequetre-s of high interest, ate: cohne ded iliac time ought to be no regular ra c of : :: :erect'. I(es:raining iateiest was illegal and Tuned's. i.e then descanted, at sri:ne length, on the great ad vat" tage or draning me.ney into lit:laud, and e..lichtd - .1 with giving his hearty cencurrence to th e nee ien. The CHANCEI.I.OIt of the EXCI-11-1( 1 !:P. said, he did not rise to oppose the nvitien al the Hi:- flout - able and Learned Gentleman. it was net h a s intention to offer any objections to it at preseet. F: perfectly coincided with the principle, that some tire: should be left, but he doubted whether the H!tec would be prepared yet to concede to such a sii cur. , : alteration in the laws relative to int. rest as this m" tion embraced. lie hoped that the extreme ini'li that the landed interest Stiqained in I)o:rowing morel had been much overrated. Il e wis h e d, homey r : .., reset ve his opinion on the general princr i .l•••...i ir= dill, as adapted to the circumstances of the Orrice. He should, in its future stages, give it his in e.t. e' ' - tivr cansideration. Mr. LOCKIIART doubted whether great iM:•7 migh not be sustained by tepealing the Acts, as sons who lent money would then be cn.l);e4l te th": and transfer the securities they held Irons tint:: v. , tiitiT, in order to get gre::ter interest, which mig put individuals to the most serious iirconren:ence. Sir JOHN NEWFORT contended that the (nation was ruinous at ',resent, and the prorteJ would not make it mere so. The cif:T. t.f ;he Iry tor prohibiting greater interest than file had been so severe and ruinous, that the had been obliged to open adoor as a venue!y i•); of annuity, to relieve the country horn the (Tr "...I it occaLiorwd. They bad sought a remedy : r evil by allowing annuities to h: raw:J. l'e annuity•rate of interest had gone ••• the es..t.n•••l t had done. It was a tact. that morev was l•-tr.r''' .3 it a leas rate of interest in Cetint ies t!'tie .5 to rate fixed by lar, as in 11(•11 end and Itordefe• han in any one of these countries where sec!" l' xs'N adopted. Great /3titain had sancttrared leparture from 11*i own principles by aifortirg Annuity Act; and s!!e surfered a monorli• erupting to litter what could nut be fer.ao