Star. — London, England, 1803-07-01 00:00:00

'I was more plain than that the dared not to enter Int* any fuch alliance. With broken and difpirited armies, demolilbed fiirtifications, and deranged finances, the. l confequences to hereof a rupture would be, that dm ' Emperor would quickly behold the French in the heart of his dominions, perhaps in poffefflon of his capital, and impofing on him a peace infallibly more galling, humiliating, and difadvantageous than that which he wUlaft compelled to rubs& to. Pruffia would never unite cordially with Auftrie, and was as unable to contend with France without alfillance as the Emperor himfelf. And to all this, it muft be added, that the dark, crooked. and covetous policy of the Cdurt of Berlin, would rather induce it to for ward than oppofe the ambitious defigns of the Firft Conful. Theo+, then, only remained Ruffia which we could poffibly look to as our Ally; but fuppofing the Emperor of Italia ever fo well difpofed to co operate with us, he could do but little unfupported by thofe other Powers of Aultria and Prttllia, whole dominions were between him and ay point of con tad with France. And, after all, fuppofing that difficulty to be removed, what has France to b fear from an army which mull have goo miles of a difficult country to march, and many intervening obßacles to furmount before it could came to the encounter ; and the, fame embsuraffraent in the way of reinforcements ? Thus then were we reduced to our own military ef forts againft France. The Hon. Secretary at War laid, that France bad vulnerable points. He would ea him where were thofe vulnerable points ? (if /asszh from t.Se Treifory Basch)—Gentlemen, he laid, might divert themfelves if they pleafed, but he believed they would find themfelves at a lots to defcribe any means we could have of a dire& attack. He would even defy the Hon. Secretary at War, fuppofing his go,ooo difpofable men to be now in readinefs, to find a fingle point where he could place thefe troops, and not with immediately to have them back again. Whit, let him a&, would be the purpofe of this war upon France, after its (hips and colonies were captured ? It would, perhaps, be Paid, that Bonaparte was unpo pular. It mig ht be fo ;he would be the laft to be come his panegyrift ; but did it follow that he mull he unpopular in France, laecaufe he was an objet of terror to ourfelves ? (A univerfal and indignant •cry of no! no!) Was he not at hall an objed of our appre henfion ? (T be exclamation of no ! no ! reiterated on all fide:. He might, perhaps, he laid, have gone too far— but though Bonaparte was at leaft an objeft of our hatred, that did not prevent the people of France from being ready to obey him. He may be, and probably was, dilliked by many perfuns—but the ge nerality of the people werewilling to fupport him, to wevent the return of that anarchy, by which they ere fo long and fo Lerievonfly afflieed. It may there fore be relied on, that the Firft Conful would endea vou r to keep this country in perpetual alarm,and would continue to threaten invafion, though he may never be able to died it ; but we Ihall continue to block up his ports, though we may be unable after a while to do him any further mifchief. The Hon. Gentleman then took a review of the Revenue of France, which he Rated to be 22 millions Ruling per annum, the half of which proceeded from land, and only about t,300,0001. from foreign impofts on trade, &c. Their expences were very flight in comparifon of ours : there could be no expedation of making any confider able preffure on the finances of France, and therefore have little chance to make her &lilt from her military projeds. He then adverted to a much more material point—our own finance.—The Right Hon. Gentle man had affumed, that he could carry on the war fur 16 millions, during 26 years. In his boafted fur plus of two millions and a half, he deceived him felf a nd the country, (not wilfully he allowed), but it was a fatal deception. He then proceeded to (late, that in the prefent year, in which were five months of peace and (even of war, the expences would amount to 30,590,0001. and if in the five months peace there had been the fame ellabliflunents as during the (even, the increafed charge would have been 6,500,0001. That taking our Navy and Army only on the fame increafe as that of hit war, the whole expellee of the year would be upwards of 44 millions; and he had no doubt btu die next year the Chancellor of the Ex chequer will be obliged to have recourse to a loan of 27 millionofor the two countries. Minifters had al ways raid, that the thong inclination of the people for peace, had been the chief caufe of making the Treaty of Amiens ; be was afraid that in three years more they would be again more clamorous on that fubjed. He might be ailed, amid ft thefe difficulties, would you Puffer an enemy to go on —[Here he was called to order by] Mr. PI yr, who Paid that the prelim qiieftion was merely as to the bell mode of arming to refill the enemy; and he appealed to the Houle, if going into a long hiflory of the negotiations for peace, was at all to the point in quellion. Mr. JonasroNC fAid, part of the Bill related to the more vigorous profecution of the war, and he there fore thought he was petit:4'lly in order in giving his fentiments on fuch parts as related to the attack of the enemy; which this force was in fume events to be applied. Mr. Ptrr claimed the opinion of the Speaker. The SPI•KER laid, it had for fume time appeared to him, that the Hon. Gentleman was taking an ex• creme latitude. It was always difficult to fay, how far Gentlemen would go in illuftration of an argu ment, but he left it to the Hon. Gentleman to confi der whether he had not greatly deviated from the queftion then before the Houfe. Mr. JOHNSTON.; gave up the point, but laid, in jultice to himfelf, be would only (fate, he could with we had reconrre to mediation, more than, he feared, we &all do. He would not recommend we thould withdraw from all interference with the Continent, but that we ilsould wait till the Powers of the Conti nent were diet : Mid to do fo. With refped to the pre fent meafure lie approved it (a load lace l,). He laid his declaration was by no means inconfillent. As a defenfive mealure he thought it good, hot as a gene ral fyflem he could not approve it. He thought that this country was at pi cfent engaged in a war on the mere affertion of Minitters, and that if we had given Malta to Ruffia the war might have been avoided. • Colonel HUTCHINSON raid. the Hon. Gentleman who bad juft far down, the Honk and the country, might rei n afureel, that from Ireland this kingdom would derive the moll cordial co-operation and moll effeeual rapport. He bad no doubt of the hoftile mind of the depot of France againft this country, but was eonviniced the prefent sneafuee was well cal culated to make him repeat of his ambitious and in- .....-~, =~_, Agent attempt► to invade its liberties, and to overturn its invaluable Conftitution. 411doisel ARCHDALB fold, the Hon. Gentleman who aitegsvd the prefent debate, had taken fo circuitous route, that he believed the Houle would not be in. chimed to follow him, nor thank any Member for at tempting fo entertaining a talk. There was; howe ver, one part of the Hon. Gentleman's fpeech, which be had liftened to with confiderable furprize, when be Paid, " that this country had loft the affedions of one part of Ireland, while they had not conciliated the other." How the Hon. Member had become a Reprefentative of Irith affedions he could not guefsr he Ihould be inclined to doubt the ir , eidain and far ads of the eleaion, and if a fcritthy were to take place, he thought it would notturn out quite fo pleating as a late fcrutiny ( te toe -Borough) to thole who with well to an il tislithed and confii. national Government. He thought. the only °bye with every one at the prefent moment ought to be, to join hand and heart in repelling the common enemy. He was well convinced this meafure was intended to produce that Co much defired event, but u he did not fee it in the fame point of view with many who had fpoken in its favour, he begged the attention of the Houfe till be aligned a few reafons why he prefurned to differ from thole who fupported it. He thould not enter into its principle or its claufes. What every Government, under fuch circumftances bad to provide for, was the fafety of the country grithout violating the Conftitution. At a time when ire were threatened with invafion; when a great por tion of the community are addided to habits of plea. fare, luxury, and the molt fafcinating enjoyments when fo much depends on public imprefflon. and more on public fpirit i when fome Gentlemen had not (erupted to hold out that the people were almolt in a Rate of abandonment, it was difficult for prudent men to difeufo in a prudent manner a warlike queA , lion like the prefenvin a public a(kmbly. There were two points to be confidered :—Whether it was pot likely this new levy would prove as good railed in this manner, as in any other ? Whether it was to be railed as regulars or militia, it muff be polifhed and Sharpened by Come means or other before it could be ufed with effed. It will, at all events, have the ad vantage of being railed more fpeedily, and there was much indeed to be expeded and hoped from calling in Officers from the Marines, which were certainly a corps that were held in the higheft eftimation from the promptitude, zeal, vigour, and bravery. which had uniformly and pre-eminently diftinguithed their exertions at all times, on all occafions, and in every quarter of the globe. The fecond point was, how far i t was ufeful 1 and in this refped, as it is to terve i 6 Ireland and the Wands, its extenfion mull be highly advantageous. He could with, as the two countries were now united, to fee the whole Militia of each made difpofable to terve in both, as occafion might require. Though this country is always much in clined to lean to its navy, he was certain it would find the army in all cafes ready to exert their utmofi ef forts, and to die glorioufiy in defence of their coon• try, and their deareft rights. He had no doubt but the general indignant voice of the people of this coun try would penetrate into the inmoft recetles of the Thuilleries, and convince the lordly ruler there, that be would find it not the voice of a war faftion. as he Ind been pleated to name it, but the united fent► mean of a whole nation, ready to die in defence of its liberty, and to hurl its dreadful vengeance on all thole who &mild attempt to invade, overturn, and defiroy it. Lord BLAQZ) trill rote and delivered his fentirnents in dire oppoiition to thole of the Hon. Member who (poke firft (Mr. Johnttnne). He thought that loch an opinion of matters in general, tended to thew a de fire of placing us again in the fame abject fituation in which we were in by the late Treaty of Amiens, and he thought that, from the whole tenor of that Hon. Gentleman's arguments. he (Mr. Johnftone) ought not to have ended by denting to the Bill. That Hon. Gentleman, in his opinion, Teemed to aim at nothing elle than a furrender of every thing that was dear and valuable, and worthy of confideratton, by this Country to France. In his opinion, fo far from France being invulnerable in every point of view, the was complete ly vulnerab e on many points ; and he was convinced that there was not a tingle individual in this country who would not moll heartily join in the prefent wet, were fuch individuals to take the trouble to confider minutely the whole Reps of the negotiation. He was furprifed to hear the leaft difference of fentitnent in thefe .particulars at this time, when the opportunity was afforded us to avenge our wrongs, and eftablith our rights among the nations of Europe. It might at prefent be reckoned the pride and glory of every Briton, that there was Rill one nation left to abate the arrogance, and humble the pride of France. He was glad - when he heard a Right Hon. Member call that Hon. Gentleman to order. on account of his having gone fo far from the fubje& really before the Houfe, but he was forty that Right Hon. Gentle. man (Mr. Pitt) had not been in the Houfe at the time that certain words were uttered by the Hon. Member, which in his apprehenfion were Rill more reprehenfible, he meant the fpeaking of Bonaparte as an object of terror and difmay to this Country (a hurgb—rard cry of bear hear !) He faid he did not rife at prefent to give his entire approbation of the Bill, as he thought it deficient in many refpeas, but he wilted principally to Rate his opinion in regard to the fentinsents he had heard. He thought there could not be any defenfive force which could be reckoned fufficiently fecure for the Country in its prefent fituation, in which there was not a very large proportion of Volunteers, for if we had not the power to annoy the enemy, we had not the power to defend ourfelves. There were many favourable circumflan ces which might a:cur to this Country, during the courfe of the prefent conteft. It was not ineonfiftent with reafon to fuppofe that the people of Holland thould grow impatient of their yoke. In his opinion it was more than probable, that the time was not very diftant, when thefe people would with to break their chains. There might even be Come provinces of France, which might Coon tire of the tyranny and op. pteffion of their preterit Governor. On filch Rippe,. fitions, he would a& any man, if it would or could be reckoned of no avail to this Country, that theft was a force of not lets than so,oco men, all at the dif pofal of Government. He was convinced, that the Gentlemen who condoled the left war would, on many occafions, have been glad to have had an ad ditional difpnfable force of even is.ooo or ro,ooo troops. If fuch had been the cafe, no rebellion in Ireland could have stifled: if feet to fupport tho troops in Holland, the Britifk Randard might hay, been fiyik ; the battle of would never have been fought, or if fought snot have ended in the manner it 'dually did ; and he might even ventnrs to fay, that Toulon might dill have been io our pot. feffion. His decided opinion was, that there never was a time in which Ibis people of England would. more readily and heartily join in offering their fervi. ces to their King and Country ; and he (hould even venture to affirm, that the people of Ireland were never, in the memory of man, more cordially dif poled to-unite with Great Britain in the fupport of ; the common mule. There was, in his opinion,. no heavier grievance which could be impeded upon the people of thefe United Kingdoms. than for Gentle: men to imprefs their minds with any degree of difaf fedion at fuck a critical conjundure as the prefent, efpecially fusee it teemed fo evident to the generalityli of individualsthat there tailed no real caiife for dif. affeCtion or -defpondency. He thought. that notwith. [landing all the calumny which had, on feveral oc. cations, been thrown out by tome newfpapers againa the caudal of thofeGentlemen at the head of afairs, that the people of the Country were very much in. debted to thefe Gentlemen for that very condo& which tome obfcure individuals prefumed to difap. prove of, The enemy, perhaps, already thought they knew our weaknefs, but they did not tnow the tali amount of our ft rength. General Gescorua Paid, that though he entertain. ed Come objedions to the prefent form of the Bill, yet be was inclined to fupport the nseafure on a matur e confideration of the prefent exigencies of affairs He could not, however, refrain from riling at pretenc e s principally to exprefs his entire difapprobation of the fenttmeurs delivered on this fubjed, on a former oc- I cation by an Hon. Member near him (Col.Crawford)‘ As far as he could underhand that Hon. Officer. ths. opinion which was delivered on the oecafion alluded to was,that if ever the enemy landed in this country, and acquired the &final poffeffion of the Capital, they might then be conlidered as if in the polreffian of thei. kingdom. IA cry as! / oad is trier.) lf hts was wrong in the stainer he underhand that Officer, he (bould not now treflifs farther on the time of the Honfe a and therefore Ihoold entirely drop that fah. jell. As for the ether Hon. Member who had this day opened the difcuffion by a lengthened addrefs to the Chair, which was concluded with ao approbatim; of the very Dill agoiod which the fpesh-feemed Eli much directed. be could not help enreffing his furl prife, to hear tech sosclufion in diced med otradic. tion 16 the train of argument with which it was cowl) menced. He thought, that is the Ferenc &nation of! the Country, there wasa greater Blare of merit at., tachable to thole who fupported Government, thwtl could be attributed to the Government itfelf.—Not-st . _ . withilanding all that had been raid againil the pre. fent Bill, he, for one, was really convinced in his own mind, that it was one which was more likely to be effcattal for the purpofes intended, than any whir* Could be propofed. He thought, however, that I/ might be rendered more palatable, were it to be 14 optional on the part of the men afterwards to earnti themfelves into other Corps , for we were to look toi their patrlotifm, and we fhould l the end hare every benefit patriotifm could afford, Colonel CRAWFORD role, and espreffed the feelnart* with which he was . thee itapreffed, on hearing fen ' a l menu delivered with Inch freedom relative to th opinion he had given on the oecarton alluded to b 1 tome Hon. Members. He fated that he had never 1 on any former occafion, prefumed to offer his fend. menu to the Houfe on matters of Inch material ba t portanee, nor even, he might fay, to addrefs the Chair on any tut** whatever. Ha appealed to the Houl whether or not it was proper to perinit fuch 'obferva. Lions to be made on the op anion which the urgent - tuition of the country called upon him to expreh 1 and if found irregular, he felt himfelf called on t i crave the indulgence of the Houfe. He fhould n pretend to fay. that he was entitled to that indul. gence from any degree of regard which ought to be paid to the opinion which he had espreffed, nor in the arguments which be might have ufed on that on. ' cation, but from the liberty which he conceived every Member of the Houfe enjoyed, of delivering his ream fentiments with every degree of freedom. He wait entitled to fay, let the fallacy of furl opinion —let the weaknefs of filch arguments be proved. .Lei them be proved to be the effect of a defpooding Imam gination, before any Member thould offer his fent': menu with filch freedom relative to the opinion de. livered by another. Were his opinion really fort ou 4 to proceed from defpondency, he protefted it w give him the moll heartfelt fatisfafion. Col. Craw.: ford was proceeding fill farther to exprefs his real feelings with regard to the fiutation of the Country; when The SICRIT•ItT It WAIL /Ore to (peak to order,—, He Paid, he obferved that the Hon. Member was about to enter into certain military details; on which account he Ihould beg leave to move the mints:emelt of the handing order of the Route, for the exclufw4 of flrangers. I Strangers were accordingly excluded for the re minder of the evening, and the Houfe continued bating upon the bill. 1111 r ri4x.l.l4lMZivf4itr PRuCANDIftGS. HOUSE OF LORDS, THURSDAY, JUNE 30. Cow re were finally heard relative to the Scotch Appeal. M.Lests Behune, and others, namely, Melba ADAM Lod GRANT on pri,ul the Refpondenu. aud Mr A for the Ap *ant Missily, ,Afmr which their Lordibips adjourned t h e far eonaderadob of the cafe till to-morrow. The various Bilts before the Houk were forwarded in their re iec7tive Rage,. Some private bufinefa was thcu difpofed of and c lloufe adjournalvtill to-morrow. HOUSE. OF COMMONS. Mr. TiItINLY took the oaths and Lit feat for the Borou:11 of authveeric. The Report of the Committee on t►e Report of tae Highland survey was brought up. The Reba,lotion for granting ao,ocoL for rtomoting an IMand Navigation from the Eaftem to the Weilern w.a read and agreed to. Thetercoteh Militia Fatnilies was read a third time, and paffed. The Eaft India Doc► Bill was ordered to be re-committed to morrow. The Report on the Bill for the Improvement of the Port of Lon- eon, was taken into further confide:ratio*, and the Rrf.lutions agreed to, and the Bill ordered to be read a third time on.hlonday. Mr. Rose moved for leave to bring law sin to enablt Benefit' Societies enrolled under the 3311 of the King. to cornet and amend certain errors in the Rules of the Paid Societies. Granted. He alb pave notice, that he thould to-morrow move that the Overfeen of the different Paribas of the City and Liberties of Welt- mintier. Mould lay before the Houle an account of the numb., of Poor relieved in their refpeclise Parilbea, and of the money iffutd for that purpefe during the lift year. The Irtfh Militia Pay Bill was committed, and the Report or dered to Ix received to-morrow. The Report of the Committee on the lrifh Salpetre Duty Aas was brought up and agreed to. The irifh Revenue Regulation Bill was ordered to be committed on Monday. Mr. CURRY PRO notice. that he would to-morrow move for leave to bring in a Bill for the further regulation of the Diltillerics Ireland. The SrcazTAßv AT WAR moved for leave to bring in a Mil for tithoridng the bilktu g of Yeomanry and Volunteer Cavalry. de- . MI of being trained together; for fubjeaing the Sajeants d rs of fuch Corps to Military Difeiplinc, and for the further of Volunteer Corps.—Granted.. AUK Y OF The Seca sraitr at WAR moved the Order of the ay, for the third reading of the Engfills Additional orce Bill, which being read, Mr. JOHNSTONE role, and Paid that no man was snore ready than he was to make the greatelt facri aces or the defenr- of the Country ; but as a confider ble variance t'.f opinion had arifen on the fubjea, and any refpeetable Members had fpoken againft the mime, he begged to be heard, till he gave his afons why he differed from them. In his opinion, o exertions, however great, or facrifices however im tent, that wecan potfiblymake,couldin any degree ad us to a better Peace than that we had already ade, and have In fpeedily parted with. He would, e laid, proceed fhortly to confider what were the intentionsof Minifiers in making Peace,and whatmuft have been their objeas in entering into the war. The lagguage of Minifters had been, that the independence of the Dutch, and the rights of the Swifs, had been the grand incentives, and that we are at war, becaufe we cannot be at peace. He denied this to be the fain; and in order to fupport his argument, he began by adverting to the proceedings of Minifters on the report of Colonel Sebaftiani, and their declaration on the 9th of April, that Malta mull be retained. The ground of war, at Rated by Minifters, wai, that the enemy would not/iften to any other alternative, than Malta or War. He denied the truth of this. The Government of France, he laid, had declared its treadinefs to accede to ,any thing which thould put Malta into any other hands than thole of England. On the 9th of May they offered to give it to Ruflla, Auftria, or Pruffia; and Lord Whitworth wrote word that they would give Malta to Ruffle. This had been tefnled, becaufe it was not an equivalent adequate to his Majefty's pretensions . He would afk Mini tiers. if Malta bad been committed fubftantially to Aida, and we had, in confequence thereof, pro cured the French troops to be aaually withdrawn from Holland. for two or three years, was there not the greaten poffible chance, that. in the courfe of that period, the national fpirit of the Dutch might return, and that they would have deviled the means to prevent the French troops from entering that coon try again, and thereby fecure their future indepen dence ? He conceived there was no real difference, whether Malta was in poffeflian of this country, or of Raffia. The Emperor of Ruffia had (hewn a great &fire to inter fere in the affairs of Italy, by the inte reft he hid taken in the fate of the Kings of Sardinia and Naples; and fuppofing Malta to have been com mitted to him, under in full underftanding that he was bound by every tie of honour which is binding on the heads of nations, would not that have been a fufficient guarantee to us? If Ruffla can for a mo ment be lufpetted of playing falfe, then France has a much caller, and fifer means of annoying us in our Indian poffetfions,than through the mc hum of Malta ; . for by the partition of Turkey with. Raffia, France might have a pofition on the Gulph of Pertia, by means of which fire would become more formidable to ui on that account, than by the poffellion of Malta. He ridiculed the idea of France injuring us ix India, on account of the expence, as the mull fend all her means of attack and defence from home ; while we had an army of soo,ooo men ready on the (pot, well provided in every refpth, to dctend our poifellions • and interests there. He anted, what was likely to refalt from the war? We have teen the courfe France will purfue s the will endeavour to !hut us out from - the Continent ; the will occupy Portugal, and draw up an army on the oppofite !hares, to make us be r lieve the will invade us. That Rte will ever do fn in this country with any effea, he did not believe ; but we ought ferioufly to look at the lunation of Ireland. When we confidered that we loft the affettions of I one part of that country, without having conciliated the other, we ought to dread the idea of the enemy making good a landing of any confiderable force there. He then anted, what were our means of an noying France? All Gentlemen, laid he, agree that a mere defensive war mull be ruinous to this country. What means we have to annoy France affentively the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Windham) has not told I us. But a Noble Lord (Temple) who feemed Rill more famttsine, pointed out three modes: i ft. A combination of the Continental Powers; 3d. a dirett i attack by this country upon France ; and 3411 y, the Mutt •f a declaration againtl the French Govern . sent. He would take the liberty of making a very 1 few obfervations upon thefe three hopeful projeas.-- • fis to the aril, the only Powers on tho-Cotitii.cnt by which a confederacy could be formed. were Auftiia. bane, and RulLs. With regard to Aunriz, nothing - _ J _._ ~. LONDON. FRIDAY, JULY a. PRICE OF STOCKS THIS DAY AT ONE O'CLOCK Cook far opg.364L—Omadtana 31 4 4f 4 41 dEortst. 3 per COIL Red. sjj PRICE OF S LOCKS YESTERDAY: Rank Stock 143 144 leak Stock Sot 3 pee Can. Red. 13th India Roods, par. ta. diE 4 per Cent. 714 71 Exclasq. DRY so to 3ordlL ors Ct. AXIIL 1797,9111491 Olnelem 34 33* AL Corse Asa. rd. 7-16 Goias for op. 33{}f} The following notice was yefterday publicly at the Stock Eschange o Mr. Comm, the alsseellor d the Eacharter of halaot. tiniarlifolbr disc sacs, trader the neetillty of hiss ?,Idol *pit! trf Jaly, Waterier Monday the t nh of July, far receivin the Masi tat the bilk lona of topoo.cooL at the Dank. la Dahlia." • The motion for the third reading of the Army or Referee Bill, lea night, in the Houfe of Common., produced a very animated debate, as far as we hid an opportunity of judging of it. As in an early part of the dianfaiin *rangers were excluded from the Qiery, we can only give the following &etch of **. moi and and fore his elea the litre rap area heir ) tal lo Cy 1•011 of Ii b de ;hid bem, IC afi VIC a/ ) the is it witl 44 } afure but yt Goo I ate] ality N ma '