Star. — London, England, 1810-02-23 00:00:00

: That wheri'Donartre ptossedect VD at. Span. c i c s Austr a there were two lines of policy marked t f o r our Ministers, 'neither of 'which, though ob• I s did they think p ro p er to fellow. have They ought promPtly aided .A.ustria,Or availed thenntalves ,f the Austrian war to expel the French force from ; they • pa,n- But attempted .nothing that 'wisdom W sanction or the counts-pig/w ov e. Every thing indeed which they did attempt was marked by imps (lace an d, mismanagement ;: their whole career be mod, as the universal opi_ IStsin of the public pro -024 a fetal want of j udgment, foresight, and an „ woo . r ; and, as the climax of error, they now seem tesolved to defend Portugal, according to a phtn o f defence, too, which was perfectly im p racticable. wa s utterly F ridiculous to suppose, that the la° 1. e r asof the Count La Lippe, as to the practicability o f defending Portugal from invasion, could now be tee upon. In fact, nothing could be gained from Me attempt, and the danger was certain. We should •be allowed to retain Portugal, under our present sys tem, just so long as Bonaparte thought proper. Yet t h e patrons of that system, the present Ministers, still called for confidence ; and amidst all toe calamities 2CCU • ululated under their auspices, they had still the hardihood to speak of gaining for the -country. « But !would ask," said' the Noble Lord, " What have they gained i" The Noble Secretary of State boasts, s i at our country has obtained a higher character than a ew er possessed before in Eur op e : which, by the wa y, ',deny. B ut I would ask him, Has he gained bis object ? Has he reduced the power of the enemy ? If I were to ask a chess-player whether he had won his game, and he were to answer me that he had got a' T ook, or he had got a bishop, what should I think of his answer ? Precisely as I do of that of Ministers to this House; who, when asked whether they have won their ga me with the enemy, reply, that they have d honour, laurels and fame ; that still they are *5,,,._-they have lost their game—for the last two years they have gained nothing. Their admi nistration has, in fact, been marked by , the defalca tisn of every foreign hope, and the reduction of every domestic resource—they who vaunted of their reso lution to protect and liberate the Continent, have only succeeded in bringing danger close to our own shores —and why ? because they sacrificed their duty, and the interests of their country to their personal ambition and personal cupidity. While they covered the coun try with their tax-gatherers and supervisors, who erre almost as great nuisances as the plagues of Egspt, they aggravated the insults and injuries they inflicted upon the people, by most wantonly squall derino the produce of their exactions. Yet, these were the Midsters who called fur confidence ; while he was certain that he was speaking the language of ninety-nine out of a hundred of the whole popula tion of the country, when he asserted, that such Mi nisters deserved reprobation and punishment. Lord SIDMOUTH was of opinion that Govern ment had neglected to avail thernielves of the favour able opportunity for striking a decisive blow. He should feel much reluctance at withdrawing our suc cours from Portugal, if without too great a risk and bavock we could assist her with any prospect of suc cess. Her long attachment to this country, the sin. verity of which, had been so forcibly evinced at dif ferent periods, which he instanced most particularly in 1762, that we ought to feel it incumbent upon us to afford her eves y assistance in our power. He wrisunwilling to accede .to the amendment, as he thought it would he an unjustifiable action to with draw our uoops before such a measure became abso lutely necessary. He, however, thought they ought to be well informed as to the co-operation they were to expect on the part of the Portuguese. Government ' ,:could be careful not to add to the weight of the bur den already borne by the people ; and to lighten the present as soon as possible. He would withhold his consent to the Address • and he thought his conduct both parliamentary and constitutional, when he de clared, that, giving it his assent, he threw the whole of the responsibility •on his Majesty's Ministers. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE expressed his surprise at the allusion of his Noble Friend to the po licy pursued in 17G2, when the circumstances of the country and of Europe were so materially different, if not directly the reverse of what they were at the ?resent day, when we had a vigorous Administration a home, and an important intiuence abroad. It was, Sae felt, somewhat singular, that upon the very same 'itemises that were stated by his Noble Friend, he should come to quite an opposite conclusion. For he could not reconcile it to his mind to repose any confi dence in Ministers, who, according to his Noble Friend's confession, were not entitled to it (Hear, hear)--he could not trust to the judgment or respon sibility of men whose misconduct had involved 'the country in a series of disasters and disgrace-but it seemed that they had some intention of taking a new course--so it appeared were the Portuguese, for they were beginning to form an army. He had heard of an old l'hilosopber, who observed; that it was the characteristic of a foolish man to be always beginning, and he could not help applying the observation to the leoitinings of Ministers and the Portuguese army : for himself he had no hesitation in stating, that Por tugal ought not to be retained, that nothing but dan ger and loss was to be calculated upon from the at tempt, and that any delay to abandon it could only test upon the same irresolute, culpable policy, whith produced so much mischief in the retention of Welch*. Ten, after the impossibility - of holding it, without more' sacrifices than it was worth, became quite glaring. Lord HA RROWBY deprecated the idea of tying the hands of Ministers, while they were permitted to hold the functions of Government. If they were un worthy to be trusted, let an address for their dismissal from office be at once brought forward ; but while they retained office, let it not be attempted to injure the country and them by depriving them of the means cf discharging their public duty. If it were deter ranted to abandon the Peninsula, it'ought to be done at once, and the Portuguese left to make the best terms they could with the enemy. But if the Portu guese were to he protected, the vote proposed by the Address wa s indispensible to that protection. No doubt should be allowed to exist on such a subject. The Noble Lord then proceeded to animadvert upon the administration of those who were so anxious to dis- P l ace the present Ministers, and concluded svith ob serving; that if these persons were to succeed in thei r Object, the country could not, from their former cone d uct, be very sanguine in its hope of their capacity to manage ex p editions, tr to. promote our foreign in- Lutace. places ; they acted in those - places ? Their conduct, particu larly in retaining Walcheren, after the main objectQf the expedition was found unattainable, was most cri minal. It was, Twill say, as a lawyer, a murderous act. Awl yet they challenge, it seems, a motion for their dismissal. Such a'motion is, indeed, suspended over their heads, and GOD knows it is of little conse quence whether they, are on or off. (4 laugh. ) But as to the retention of Portugal, it is stated, that a. na tive army is collecting in that country, and our money is to be sent there for its support. What fatality ! There really seems to be a sort of predestination which I will leave to the Reverend Bench to explain, that whenever the French take any country or any prisoners, they shall have some of our *money also. I can hardly account for the infatuation which pos sesses those men' who suppose they can defend Portu gal, by sending a supply of British money there. It might as well, in fact, be expected to accomplish that by sending over the Woolsack with my Noble Friend upon it. (4 laugh.) The Noble Lord con cluded with stating his intention to vote for the Amendment. The Earl of BUCKINGHAMSHIRE vindicate 4 the opinion arid consistency of his Noble Friend (1 4 1 Sidmouth). Lord HOLLAND animadverted upon the con.' duct of Ministers with regard to Spain and Portugal, and expressed his regret that a' more enlarged and li beral system of policy had not been acted upon. If the privileges of freedom had been communicated4O the Spaniards, he was persuaded that the strugg of that people would have led to a very different re sult from that which now seemed too probable. When, he mentioned freedom he wished to be distinctly derstood as meaning that description of freedom for which he always had been, and always should continue, to be, a warm advocate. His opinion uniformly was, that freedom could not be too democratic, because the basis of the Government could not be too broad for its own security and strength, and for thehappiness and defence of the country. Had the Government of Spain rested upon this principle, he firmly believed that the Spanish nation would have triumphed over the attacks of Bonaparte. Lord DARNLEY 'supported the Amendment. The Ministers had almost destroyed three armies in the course of twelve months, and had within that period and to little or do purpose, expended more the military and pecuniary resources of the country, than any of their predecessors had done in the course of ten years. Under these circumstances, their Lord ships could not give them their confidence in the fur ther prosecution of this line of policy without inquiry. A division then tookplace. For the Original Proposition. , Present .59 Proxies 65 For the Amendment. Present 42 ' Proxies 32 1.M...... ,0 124 Majority 30.--Adjourned. i•••••• LIST OW THE MINORITY.' • - PRESENT. Ilcbester Cowper Grosvenor Bredalbane Headfort, Bristol Bulkeley Dundas Cessna Holland Lauderdale Grenville St. John Besborough Gloucester Norfolk Somerset Stafford Lansdowne Grey Spencer Roselyn Luean Derby Donougbmore Thanet Albemarle Hardwicke • Essex TankervUle Duncan PROXIES. Arson Carnarvon Montfort Cholmondeley Hereford Grey de Ruthyn Glastonbury Shaftesbury Ashburton Devonshire St. Alban's Grafton lute Darlington Stawel Buckinghain King Searborongh Glildford Berkeley Bolingbroke Fortescue Carlisle Charlemons Townshend Braybroke Mendip Crewe Eglington St. Vincent Cork and Orrery Somers HOUSE OF COMMONS. .. _ the Pettrevenie di* . evening, re *as ' Initiation of trade, 1y one way or other, the Gentlemen at probably imagined , as long as it was at place (Hear, hear). House, that the Dis foriy days after the , thirty days had al 'hour or day of delay the country. The Modon, be was per. J turn out the:FreSeilt succeeded to their places surely not be to than sich extreme **atty. He was therefore st 'the Speaker's leaving the Chair, that the House might proceed to discuss the subject relating to the Distilleries. Mr. WHITBREAD observed, that the Right Ho nourable Gentleman intended to pay him and his friend's an ironical compliment, by stating that they had in view the dismissal of the present Ministers, which they considered would be for the good of the country. Their object was 'not only the removal of Ministers, but also their punishment. The Honour able Gentleman had asked, if it was important whe ther that object should be accomplished on Monday or Tuesday ? He would say in reply, that it was very important indeed, because, at this moment, Ministers associated with Earl Chatham, the Master-General of the Ordnance, and Lord Multrave, the first Lord of the Admiralty. After what appeared before the Corn- t h mittee of Inquiry, and who were now concerting pro- sup, jects for - sending out troops to Cadiz, and taking into to u the -pay of his Majesty' 30,600 Portuguese troops, convet could the Honourable Member deny the fact? Mr. c di ts a red_,...i' Whitbread observed, that he and his friends had ~,,,,17,:y'L been accused of wishing to obstruct the public busi - those oils°, sens, by postponing the Distillery Bill. This was a Sir JOHN . misrepresentation, and no such -thing. If the House. Lord in a :peer -1 proceedeF.l in the inquiry in the Scheldt Expedi- if o ‘ t it vre :f fera d nd lion now, it was agreed tha the Committee should venue of that count, break up at eight o'clock, w n the matter apper- Mr. DUNDAS fol, taining to the Distilleries might commence, and he termination to spew tk appealed to the Hotise if that was not an hour who acted from a sense , when business of importance was often, ,if not Mr. BOYLE maintain' usually brought forward. The Ministers seemed hlbition to Ireland. to wish to go on from day to day with the Corn-Mr. Mr. atATTAN conteno flict an immediate injury o n it mittee without making any progress by studied de- Eug l an d an d Scotian d , by des signs, arts, devices, and mechanical process. The En g land and Scotland now dens House must recollect what occurred on the pre- so large a portion of their subsiste, ceding evening. It had come to a vote to prdceed , Sir W. W. WYNNE objected to on the Inquiry this day at four o'clock, and to conti- I" t°t•• nue in a Committee antil eight, he therefore wished he to Glreneland. eral T i Aßl i . n E t T e ON ts vn of 's t h w ed erg th e e m p ik the House to preserve its honour and consistency, and to be sacrificed to the interests of four mit not rescind a resolution which it came to on the for- Mr. WINDHAM supported the proposit. crier night. It would be also recollected that one of ' Mr. LESLIE FOSTER argued agaiast ti the Honourable Members on the Treasury Bench at - elm to Ireland. By adopting such a p a quarter before ten o'clock, observed that Gentlemen 4 indeed secure a mouthful at the s had not the physical strength to proceed farther, and et the risk of future scarcity. . ' objected to the calling in of Sir Lyre Coote. How- .very respect, and ought to -sued. Should the Irish V ever, being run to a division, the Secretary of State -owe be Impossible to for the Home Department got up and made a speech -e necessarily pecan of considerable knoll, he would not say with a view to speak against titne. If he were to follow the ex- of the ample, he would oppose the Distillery Bill in every stage, and prevent it from being passed ; but he de clared, on his own part, that though it' was now a quarter past four o'clock, if the House would resolve itself into the Committee of Inquiry on the Scheldt Expedition, he would move that it be closed at eight, for the purpose of the House then proceeding to the business of the Distilleries. Mr.'STEVEN said, it was now obvious that the object of Gentlemen at the opposite side of the House was to turn out Ministers, and put themselves in their places, for which they seemed to languish as much as a lover for his mistress ; but haw far the country would benefit by the measure, he would not say.— The public business he would, however, assert was of much greater importance to the country, and he hoped it would not be postponed to qualify their natural impatietice to get into place. Lord GRANVILLE LEVESON GOWER con sidered the proposition of Lord Porchester very fair, after the vote of the preceding night. Lord PORCHESTER was anxious that the Com mittee should sit till eight o'clock, that it might re ceive the evidence of Earl Chatham, who was then i in waiting and indisposed. His Lordship was willing to be examined until that hour, and he lett to Gen tlemen to decide at which side of the House the im patience lay. Mr. MANNERS SUTTON opposed the motion. It could not, he said, be attended with any public inconvenience the postponing the inquiry for a few . hours, while the business before, the House was of the ..-...?—.-- most pressing importance to the country. ' TO THE EDITOR OF THE STAR. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose, amidst cries of Question ! question ! and said, SlR—Through the medium of your paper, I beg be could not help making some observa tion on what leave to state the situation of a certain class of Officer's had fallen from his Noble Friend (Lo rd Gower) in his Majesty's service, the circumstances of which, on the present question. He regrett ed that his on a caudid representation, I am induced to hope, i Government will take into consideration ; I allude to Noble Friend had not been present in the House the Quarter -Masters of the Army. All Officers (ex at the commencement of the debate , to have heard t either promoted or receive advan the threat held out by an Honourable Gentleman cepting them) area pay after serving a certain number of years. An opposite. The question before the H ouse was not now one of mere precedence , as t o subjects Ensign may look forward to a Company in the course of eight or ten years. Surgeons in like manner re of discussion, but whether the House were to be threatened and intimidated by the m enace of har- ceive advanced pay according to the length of their rassing divisions--(Hear, Hear.) — and b y decla services. Adjutants are atonce appointed with Bs.6d. er ra tions, that if they did not now go into th e C orn- each p day, besides rank for promotion. Lieute mittee, all other business will be retarded, and no- nants of seven years standing receive an additional thing will be done. This was the th reat of the Ho shilling per day. And in this manner all Officers in nourable Gentleman, and if the House y ielded to it, the Line (excepting Quarter-Masters) have channels through which, either by length of their services or they would show that they surrend ered the ri g ht of managing their_own deliberations , and subm it hence- otherwise, they can obtain promotion, and many other forward to the dictation of the Honoura ble Gentle- considerable advantages. In short Quarter -Masters are the only Officers without any prospect of fume man as to what course they were in e v ery instance to advancement in the Army, or reaping any benefits follow.—(Thar, hear.)- 1 f the House d id not mean from their long services. lam induced to think that to abandon their rights , he trusted t heir vote would chew the Honourable Gentleman that t he y were net- Quarter -Masters being thus situated has been an over cher to be threatened nor controuled in the ir p roceed- sight, as they were lately allowed to hold a second ings.—(Hear, hear.) commission, and were promoted as vacancies occur- Mr. TIERNEY - spoke in favour of the motion. red. A Quarter-Master, under the present circuits- Mr. LONG said, the question for the Committee stances, may pass 30 or 40 years in the Army, and of Inquiry sitting this day, at four o'clock, was nega- when rendered incapable of serving, is under the ne tivedcmity of retiring oil half-pay, which does not exceed in the Committee last night , by a majority of one. But when the House was resumed, without tle pension now granted to Serjeants, after serving 21 offering any argument, the motion was made again, years. It is therefore hoped that Government will when it was only carried by a majority of two. be induced to adopt such steps as may lead to improve The question being loudly called for, the House Q uariar ausiire s i tus 4 ol ,_k roin divided, For the Chairman leaving the Chair, 19111-e- '-- I iloti'. •1 0 ' • .., I .ft I , •4a. il.l-ft wit •,+ • * • 4'o 00 . . - 4tEainst it 180—Majority i l le: . , • Ai oda StiLlOnli - I I ... • • • • ft • • • I ' • I. . • a ft, .s - • Luray sat,. On the mo d e of Rrl i isor. the Hotta weer into a Csonssit tee oh thaDistillery Bill, the Act for prohibiting • its linputtatioio of Spirits front Deland, and an Instruction to exrenti the lib' Ireland, being also referred to the aame Conuniiiee. Mr. ROSE then stated that the circumstaneNt of England Ireland were widely different. In Ireland theme's' a„superulhAi - iititrpty of grain; in England and Scotland it we , quite ii.e itiras nest, thereat his intention to ( move thax i+.e Bill 40 extend to Irelan3; bet , in lieu thereof, to mars throw onneboasce of the Act prohibiting the importation of spaitstrons Sir J. NRWPORroggtosed this measure es repugnant sel tha act of Union. It was hatratg fair to allow the Imperial Parlie ment, by a forced interpretation of the spirit against the letter of the act, to explain away the work of two independent Perliaments Lord A. HAMILTON contended, that it had been agreed -try Mr. Rose himself, that his .aziotios for extending the Bill to Ire land should take the precedence. After soma conversation, Mr. Rose acceded; and withrew his motion. Lord A. HAMILTON then moved, that the Bill do extend to Ireland. If there was such 2 superabundance of grain in Ireland, his Lordship asked, bow - it hippened that special 'latices wen: granted to import grain into this country from Enact ? Hon. C. H. HUTCHINSON opposed the resolution, as ktju rious to the agricultural interests of Ireland. - Mr. FITZGERALD argued on the same side. There bed been a deterieraiion of revenue to the amount of one million ice consequence of the suspension. Sir C. BURRELL was against sacrificing the general interests of the country to the particular interest of any part. Sir ROBERT PEELE could not perceive the justice of the complaints of the Members for Ireland. That particular country bad no right to a peculiar advantage, at the expense of Einglend and Scotland. He maintained that the House ought to considet. the situation of the manufacturing classes of the community, es pecfally that of those in the North of England,who were but just recovering from the severe pressure they felt is -coast:gots= of the late high price of provisions. They were in a greet osionsre supplied from Ireland; and unless the prohibition was intioaded to that country, they would be reduced to the most perihelia in convenience. If the proposition was adopted, the supplieipro- cored from France might be got (ruin Ireland, and the Welt-In dia planters would have the benefit of the restriction all over the number, and it was much better to promote their interests than those of Bonaparte. Sir JOHN NEWPORT opposed the resolution of the Noble Lord in a speech of great ability and animation. He stated, that if it were agreed to, the effect would ultimately be to couvnt the tillage of Ireland into pasturage, and wholly to destroy the re venue of that country. • Mr. DUNDAS followed on the same side ; expressing his de termination to shew that there was at least one County Member who acted from a sense of general, and not of particular interest. Mr. BOYLE maintained the expediency of extending the pro hibition to Ireland. Mr. oftATTAN contended on the contrary, that it would in• ilia an immediate injury on Ireland, and a permanent injury on Eugland and Scotland, by destroying the sources from whieb England and Scotland now derived, and might hereafter derive, so large a portion of their subsistence. Sir W. W. WYNNE objected to the prohibition of distillation ii, tots. General TARI.ETON wished the prohibition to be Wended . to Ireland. The interests of twelve millions of people ought nut to be sacrificed to the interests of four millious. Mr. WINDHAM supported the proposition. • Mr. LESLIE FOSTER argued against the extension of the prohibition to Ireland. By adopting such a proposition, Great Britain might indeed secure a mouthful at the present moment, but it would be at the risk of future scarcity. The energies of Ireland were great in every respect, and ought to be stimulated and called forth; not repressed. Should the Irish be prohibited from distilling from grain, it would be impossible to supply the deficiency which such a measure must necessarily occasion in the revenue. Sir THOMAS TURTON was for the extension of the prohi bitten. Mr. WESTERN could not concur in inflicting such a penalty on Ireland as that proposed by the Noble Lord. Mr. FULLER, in a short speech, which kept the House in a roar of laughter, contended (as we understood the Hon. Gentle. man) for the extension of the prohibition to Ireland. Sir JOHN HALL also supported the necessity of extending the prohibition to Ireland. The Committee then divided. For Lord A. Hamilton's Resolution GS Against it - - - - - - - 110 Majority against extendhib the prohibition to Ireland —44 Mr. ROSE then moved a resolution " that it was the opinion of the Committee, that the Act of the 411th of his present Ma. jest) , (the Act for prohibiting the Intercourse of Spirits between Great Britain and Ireland) be further continued." After a short discussion A in which Mr. PARNELL, Sir J. Naw- PORT, Mr. FOSTER., Mr. HUTCRINSON,Ind Mr. W. SMITU, par ticipated, the Resolution was agreed is without a division. The House having been resumed, the report was received, the eesolutions agreed to, and it was ordered " that it be an instruc tion to the Committee on the Distillation Prohibition Bill, that they should make provisions in conformity to the said resolutions:. On the Motion of Mr. ROSE, the House resolved itself into a Committee on the Distillation Prohibition Bill, in which clauses correspondent to the resolutions just agreed to were inserted into the Bill.—The House having been resumed, the report was order ed ' be received to morrow. , , 1... . to . On the Motion of Lord PORCHESTER, the House resolved itself into a Committee of Inquiry into the policy and conduct of t he Expedition to the Scheldt. Strangers were immediately excluded. I QUARTER -MASTERS. Lord ERSICINEtiiged - their Lordships to refi Wished to hate thelifeten that not merely the eondect of Ministers, .but that 110114 the'Distiadries,"stres, a n their LordsWpi &hits — elvea; - wait upon . triel on this oc till W not deterteitied iftitieditetd , casion ; and the probable result of that trial,. be Aided prOduce confisiens; Which . an enlightened connu7,. was entitled to the most dee opposite side of the 'House rious consideration. Ministers,' it appeared, pursu was promoting, the public , a the old course upon this 'O4CeSiOn. Instead of vindi tended with their - getting to p 1: 'eating themselves 'they endeavoured 'to` crimina It was necessary to inforia the H their predecessors. But if their predeCetiors wefe dllery . Act now in force expired f -really criminal, why do not these Ministers who were; commencement of the Sessibn ; in possession of every information and docnment re-, ready elapsed, and a single 'hot] ferring to their official conduct, do their duty, and 'might be highly detrimental to Make that criminality Me subject of prosecution ?—. l Gentlemen who supported the in This, however, (said the Noble Lord) was not their; fectly aware, were anxious to to object. They did not want to vindicate the cause tr *Ministers; but whether they succe the public, but to get into our places; and how have . ,on Monday or Tuesday, could an they acted in those places ? Their conduct, ualtica , a Matter of such extreme anxiety. Moira Ponsonby Ergline Douglas Darnley Carrington Keith Argyle Ellenborough 1 antlers. Oxford Rochester Dude Hutchinson Waldegrave Vgiford Yarborough De Clifford Jersey Southampton Upper Unary Suffolk Hillsborough lISZOPS. St. Asaph Lincolu ---- - - - The House was summoned by the Deputy Usher of the Black Rod, to hear his Majesty's Commission read in the House of Lords. On the Speaker's return be stated, that the Royal Assent was declared by Commission to the Right Honourable Henry 'Wellesley's Divorce Act, and a Naturalization Act. A Message from the Lords requested that the House would send them a Copy of the Fourth Report of the Committee ap pointed to consider of the Distillation of Spirits from Molasses. The Speaker informed the Messengers, that the House would send an answer by Messengers of ha own. COMMITTEE OF INQUIRY. In consequence of ... an order made in the House on the preceding night, that the House should resolve itself into the Committee of Inquiry into the Expe dition to the Scheldt this day at four o'clock. and the Order of the day having been accordingly read, on motion of Lord PORcRESTER I his Lordship moved that the Speaker should leave the Chair. Mr. WHARTON said, he rose 'to oppose . the mo tion ; because he did not conceive it consistent with I the good of the country to postpone other important business which stood for discussion, and which did not admit of delay. It appeared to him that the conduct of Gentlemen at the opposite side of the House was exceedingly extraordinary in pressing the present question. Their avowed object was the re moval of his Majesty's Ministers ; he doubted much if prospectively that would be a measure for the benefit of the country. The measure which M. 94 le use and ing and the{ e in )ital? lk of a en• too‘ re ad.: