Star. — London, England, 1821-05-09 00:00:00

t • • Z -• No . •-. paragraph whw" 1\110*st:16E410 in the Courier News mix, although h was substantially correct, was not inseitted by the authority, advice, consent, or, know -ledgott2f any person connected with the high indivi dhal Wose character was chiefly concerned ; on the contrary, the appearance of it gave them great pain, as they feared it might be inferred that they were not amply satisfied ith the very handsome conduct of •the Honourable Member for Shrewsbury. He begged to repeat, that the paragraph in question was wholly false and malicious--(Hear). The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that no one who had heard the explanation given by - the Ho. nourable Member behind him, and had heard the paragraph on the table read, could for a moment doubt that it was a libel. An imputation of the na- titre conveyed in the paragraph, and the direct as serting that an apology was made, when an explana tion merely took place,. must he considered by every person at least as a breach of privilege. Consider ing, therefore, the statement in this paragraph as wholly false, and reflecting so severely on the cha racter of a Member of that House, he saw no other course for the House to adopt than to vote the publi cation a'breach of privilege, and afterwards have the Printer brought to the Bar. The Resolution then passed neat. con. Mr. BENNETT then moved, " That T. B. Weaver (Printer and Publisher), do attend at the Bar of this House to-morrow."—Ordered, nem. con. THE SEDITIOUS MEETINGS BILL. Mr. LENNARD rose, pursuant to his notice, to move for the Repeal of the Act of the 60th of Geo. 111. relative to Seditious Meetings, &c. The Hon. Member entered into a review of the character of the measure, and the circumstances under which it was passed. It was a measure adopted by Govern ment and by the House, during a period of alarm and domestic agitation, which, thank GOD, no longer existed in this country ; and, whatever might have been the necessity which called for the enactment of measures so destructive of our liberties and the spit it of the Constitution, that necessity no longer remained, and these Acts ought to expire. The dearest rights of Englishmen were destroyed by the operation.of this law. Public Meetings were interfered With, and the only Constituti,nal mode which the People had of expressing their opinions on the conduct of their Representatives, was taken away. If these Bills were to be continued in operation, he was convinced much of the energy and force of the c _nary would be destroyed, arid the spirit of the People done away.— By the measures then adopted, the freedom of the Press, the Guardian of the People's Liberties, was done away, and every possible facility was given to the establishment of arbitrary power—(Hear, hear). The People were now quiet and tranquil ; no one would attempt to deny that position ; and the occa sion on which this attainder of the People's rights had been founded, having passed away, he trusted the attainder would he reversed. He might be told that these Bills would expire in a few years, if the conduct of the People should appear to deserve it ; but he could not consent to have the restoration of o ir liberties deferred for a moment—(Hear, hear).-- It was now nearly two year; since a new and arbitrary mode of punishment for political libel had been in troduced into our Code ; but such had been the effect produced on the spirit of the People, such the apathy caused by this suspension of public liberty, that not a single remonstrance had been made on the subject. The People had ceased to regard the House as their Constitutional Guardians, and paid no attention to their proceedings—(Hear, hear).—The second Act to which he had alluded, the Libel Act, introduced a most severe and arbitrary punishment for a libel, which neither Judges nor Lawyers could define cor rectly. He would not trouble the House with any remarks on the law of libel, but he saw nothing to negative the proposition, that Judges might in time future be as cruel as in times past, and what an in strument did such an Act put into the hands of such Judges ! Suppose an Hon. Baronet (Sir h. Burdett), might, by a legal finess?, be tried for publishing a libel on Ministers, he should tremble fir the result ; especially considering the conduct that some Judges had adopted—(Hear, hcar).—lt might be said there had been no restrictions on the Press; but if so, that bad arisen from the independence of Julies. He would say, that the expression of public opinion had been less free since the publication of these Acts.— Though no inconvenience might have arisen from the Acts hitherto, it did not follow that the case would be the same in time to come. If to meet was the right of the People, in proportion as that right was circumscribed their liberty was diminished —{Hear). It was a fact that County Meetings were less nume rous than they used to be, and the expression of pub lic feeling was greatly restrained. Without doubt we owed much to the forbearance of men in power to put these Acts in execution, and it was true that so long as that forbearance was guaranteed liberty had nothing to fear, for " Arunquans liberlas grader Mat Quern. sub rev piu." But who could say how long this state of things would continue, or where encroachments once made would stop ? He believed there were few who were bold enough to assert that we were now in as free a con dition as we had been at other periods of our history. —Every year of •the late and some preceding reigns was marked with one encroachment or another, and, of course we were losers in liberty by all these enact ments—( Hear ).—He was aware he had been but a feeble advocate of a good cause; and it might also be thought that the time had not been judiciously chosen. But the earlier the resistance to it was the better; and, should he fail now, he should bring it regularly before the House till the subject should fall into abler hands. If the affairs of the country should be deemed by any to be better managed under a system of coercion, he was not one of those.—The Hon. Member concluded by moving for leave to bringin a Bill to repeal the 60th of George HI. cap. 6 and cap. 8, entitled an " Act for more effectually preventing Seditious Meetings and Assemblies." Mr. Serjeant ONSLOW had always been friendly to the liberties of the people; but, at the same time, he was of opinion, that the Acts commented on had been called for by the circumstances of the times.— He was sorry any allusion had been made to aJudge in the Court of king's Bench. Than the Judge al luded to, no man could possess a more h umane m i n d ; and if that Judge had acted wrong, let him be pro. ceeded agalast in a constitutional manner. A mere inconvenience bad never been regarded as a proper ground for the repeal of a law. Did the Honourable Gentleman mean to represent the Justices of the Peace as mere tools in the hands of the Crown? Was that . a correct account of the Honourable Magistracy of the country ?—(Hear, hear.)—lf Mr. Fox could not convince the Parliament of 1797, he had very great I doubt if the Hon. Member would convince the Par- I lfament of the present day—(Hear, and a laugh).— He believed that the state of the country had been more alarming in 1819 than it had been in 1797. The Ilonourable Gentleman seemed to have taken a very narrow view of the subject, when he described banishment as a new punishment ; k was, in fact, well known to the law of the land. He should not mevc the previous question, as he thought that the motion should not have been made at all, but give it a direct negative. Mr. DENNIAN said, that if the Constitution was not sufficient for its own support, our ancestors had been strangely mistaken. He could not conceive how any Gentlemen who thought the Meeting at Man chester had been legally dispersed, could be advo cates for the new Acts ; as the same means then em ployed could be made use of on similar occasions; nay, more, the assemblers of the Meeting had been punished by the old and common law of the land.— He knew of no instance in which this new enactment had been brought into use. All the convictions had taken place under the ancient law. It was for those who had encroached on the rights of the people to shew the necessity of the continuance of such en croachments. It the cause had ceased, then the enact ments ought to be repealed. By the law in ques tion, the right of petitioning had been materially obstructed; and the country had been divided into departmental districts. But that law bad never been carried into effect, and no advantage had been taken of that cause, by those who might wish to defeat the operation of the Act, than which he conceived nothing could have been more easy. Nothing could be more difficult to define than a blasphemous libel; as ap peared from the fact, that three Juries had acquitted Mr. )lone, whilst others had convicted persons in exactly ,the same circumstances. Nothing could be more vague than the language-4e Words tending to bring the Government into contempt." The law had been passed on false and fraudulent assertions, and no reason had been assigned for their continuance now. Individuals had beer. convicted of going armed in the night, but the convictions had been made under the old law. The Acts in question had arisen from that love of legislation which was so conspicuous in the enactments of the late reign. Those Acts had been justified by no necessity at the time, and still less at the present day. Mr. HUTCHINSON complimented the Honour able Mover on the talents he had displayed in bring ing the subject before the House. He did not admit, that at the time a sufficiently strong case had been made out ; but there could be no doubt the state of the country was totally different now. Could any part of England or Scotland be proved now to be in a state of disturbance? From the statement of the Noble Lord, as to the tranquillity of Ireland, he had thought that country would have been exempted from the operation of the Acts. The motion should have his cordial support. Mr. MAXWELL said, that in the County he re presented much alarm had been excited by Public Meetings, held for no rational object of political dis cussion. He should vote for the repeal of the Act that went to restrain the Liberty of the Press ; though, from a regard to consistency, he could not vote for this motion. Mr. ABERCROMBY had been one of those who had voted for the Bill passing into a law, as he thought the right of petitioning had been much abused. He also thought that the Meeting was illegal at Man-1 chester. But he had voted for the Bill as a tempo rary measure, and the necessity for it had now wholly ceased. Though some Sheriffs had acted with much propriety, yet others had acted with much caprice. The Meetings held at the time were wholly unfit for all rational discussion. But the state of the country was then different ; and, if pressed, be must concur in the motion. At the same time, he could have wished it had not been made. As there was but little hope that the motion would be carried, he was afraid that the decision of the House would be afterwards turned into an argument for the continuance of the Acts in a time of tranquillity. Mr. LENNARD replied. He had not been sanguine as to the success of the present motion, but he had trusted a great deal to the justice of the cause; he had trusted that Ministers might feel disposed to restore to the people that which was the people's birthright, or at least that they would shew sufficient reiscns for withholding it—(Hear, hear). Sir JOHN NEWPORT rose, amidst loud cries of " Question!" and said, that as no case had been made out on the other side, he should vote in support of tin' motion. The House then divided— For the Motion - - 68 Against it - 89 Majority in favour of Ministers —2l On the re-admission of strangers, Mr. DENMAN was on his legs, speaking on the motion for a Re peal of the Seditious and Blasphemous Libels Bill. The Honourable and Learned Gentleman reprobated in the strongest manner the principle of .the Bill ; it inflicted a severe, cruel, and barbarous punishment, that of exile, upon any person who might be a second time convicted of publishing what a Jury might think was of a libellous tendency. When that Bill was first introduced into Parliament, he contemplated it with a degree of horror; he hoped that no Gen tleman in that House would say that such a law was now necessary. Publications of a blasphemous and seditious kind were put down—put down, not by the force of that Bill, but by the old laws of the land. Prosecutions under the old laws put down those pub lications, but since the enactment of the statute, cir cumstances of a most frightful nature came to light— (Hear)—the must infamous libels that had appeared —libels above all others best calculated to excite the people to acts of violence, perhaps to actual rebel lion—(Hear, hear)—were traced to certain spies and agents, who evidently wished to goad the people on ' to acts of mutiny—(Hear, hear). Ile called upon the House, as they valued the invaded liberties of England, to repeal a law odious to the people, as it was incompatible with the existence of their rights. The House again divided— For the Motion - 66 Against it - . . SO Majority . - POOR LAWS. Mr. SC ARLETT rose, pursuant to notice, to call the attention of the House to a subject of the greatest importance, and he did so in the hope that it would meet all that serious consideration which it deserved. In moving for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Poor Laws, he was. not unconscious of his own ' ability to place this question before the House in that clear and perspicuous light which was so desirable; ' yet, at the same time, he would say, that he had en deavoured, so far as he could, to make himself ac quainted with its merits. He was aware that it should be considered in all its bearings; and it was one which was well worthy the attention of a Rime' and enlightened Government. Indeed, had lie any expectation that the question would be brought for ward under the sanction of Government, he should himself have abstained from making any motion ith respect to it; and he would further add, that if he thought it would be taken tip by any of those Gen tlemen who had sat upon the Committee, and whose Report was so very valuable, from the information it contained, he would have declined the duty that now devolved upon him. However, as he understood from some of those Gentlemen that they did not in tend introducing any motion on the subject, he ven tured to do so from a thorough conviction that, in the existing state of things, something ought to be done —(Hear, hear). He was quite certain that nothing he could say would serve as an additional recom mendation to the importance of those matters which formed the basis of his motion, and to which, for many years past, he had given the fullest considera tion. tie regretted, however, that at the time he framed the Bill which he had to propose he had not had an opportunity of availing himself of the in formation contained in the Report of the Committee. Yet, in the vicar he had taken of the question, he was fully borne out and confirmed by that Report. The great evil he believed to be this: that by the esta blished law, as it now existed, an unlimited provision was made for the poor—(Hear, hear). The effect of this must be, reasoning a priori, that if the provi sion was unlimited, it must operate as a premium on poverty, licentiousness, immorality, and crime— (Hear, hear). The constitution of nature was, that man should earn his bread by labour, and nothing was more hostile to that principle than to depreciate labour and profit. The effect, however, of the Poor Laws was to do this; they gave a man a remedy for all the inconveniences produced by his own vices or im prudence; they lessened him in his oa n estimation, and made him a degraded being. In fact, the tendency of those laws was to injure and debase the whole mass cf the labouring population—( Hear, hear). The evil was enormous, and the population would soon be come so great, that if the Poor-Rates should increase in proportion, the farmer, after having expended his capital, would no longer be able to cultivate the soil —(Hear, hear). From the result of the inquiries made by the Committee, it appeared that the mode of relief was not considered as a charity, but as a right ; it was administered without compassion, and received without gratitude—( (Tics y Hear, hear). — The consequence was that all the finer charities of social life were lost in a revolting pi inciple, which went to separate the poor from their natural de pendence upon the rich. It was a principle of exac• tion which left no scope for the heart to expand itself on its finer feelings—(Hear, hear). Unless some check was speedily put to the evil, the landlord and the pauper would equally be left without the means of subsistence. The Honourable Gentleman here made a statement respecting the progressive increase of the Poor Rates, shelving that from X 689,961, which had been their amount in the years 1743, 1749, and 1750, they had continued to advance, till in 1815 they amounted to £6,129,844. The Hon. Gentleman then read an Address from the Parish of Nantwich, which stated that the parochial relief had contributed materially to the deterioration of the moral character. The first provision he should propose would be to fix a maximum to parcchial relief, and he would take that of 1821, as the rate had not then been the highest, and the value of money had approached somewhat to its ancient value. He should then propose, that no higher rate should be levied than had been done on the 25th of March, 1821. The next measure he had to propose related to the distri bution of the Rates. In many places the poor looked to the parish for the maintenance of their second child, and in some even to that of the first. His regulation should be prospective, after the passing of the Act no relief should be afforded by any Overseer or Justice of the Peace, to any single person, except in the case - of sickness, infirmity, atid old age. He con tended that the law for the removal of the poor to the parish in which their fathers or grandfathers were born, was one of the most oppressive that had ever existed ; it was one of a most cruel and oppres sive nature—it, as it were, expatriated the poor, and made poverty a crime ; yet such was the true state of our law, and there had been no law so open to litigation since Magna Charta—(Hear, hear). — His object was, to prevent the removal of the poor from the parishes in which they may be settled, ex cept by their own consent. Manchester did not re move its poor, but it paid less for Poor Rates than almost any agricultural parish in the country, which were in the habit of removing their poor. If this law were repealed, it would be the greatest possible ex citement to economy in the Poor Rates. The pour man, whoa by his labour has contributed to enrich a particular district, ought to receive his support from that particular place. The Hon. and Learned Gen tleman, after recapi.alating the measures which he bad in view, concluded with moving for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Laws relating to the Relief of the Poor in England.— The Honourable and LearnedGentlanan sat down amid checrsjiont both sides. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY expressed his thanks to the Hon. and Learned Gentleman for bring ling forward this measure. He hoped he should not be considered as wanting in feeling if he should offer no opinion on the principles of that measure at present. When the Bill was printed, and in the hands of the House, they would all be able to consider it in its details,and he would assure the Hon. and Learned Gen tleman that he would give it the most serious attention. Sir ROBERT WILSON said, that though he must acknowledge the good intentions of his Hon. and Learned Friend, he must deprecate any proposition to take from the unemployed industrious poor a sub sistence to which they had just the same right asevery Gentleman had to his estate. If they wished to-reduce pauperism, they should reduce taxation—(icar, hear). Mr. CALCR AFT attributed the main evils attend. ing the poor, to the inadequate price of lah,, sr , i n consequence of the increased taxation, and the tional Debt. For as that had increased, the price uf agricultural labour had decreased, while the priced corn had incteased. If they were not prepared to make an increase in the price of labour,' they co u ld never hope for a decrease of the Poor Rates. Hewn: glad to find, however, that there was an intention o r returning to an administration of the Poor Laws a r the reign of F.iizabeth. 1k should make Ito oppo s i. tion to this Bill, though he did not view the prese nt state of the Poor Laws with that despondency with which in an y gentle men looked at it. He did not see that there was so much enervating want of industry, or loss of morality, produced by them. The same thing was said of this law above seventy years ago. Mr. S. BOURNE was glad that this subject had been taken up by so excellent a workman as the Hon. and Learned Gentleman; and he concurred in the great principles laid down by him. The proposed system had been fully tried, and found to succeed, in the Isle of Wight. The establishment of Select Ves tries had materially reduced-the Rates wherever they had been formed, though that system had been le -1 sisted in some parts of the kingdom. As to the se. cond Bill, he thought it would correct all the evils of the Poor Laws; because the Poor were indifferese whether they were maintained by a Master or by th e Parish. He should give every assistance to his Ho. nourable and Learned Friend. Mr. MONCK compared this system of the Por t Laws to the Spencean system ; for they silently al. lowed Gentlemen's rents to be applied to the maia. tenance of the poor in their Parishes. Still he wa s not prepared to deprive the poor of the rights and protection which they now enjoyed. It was to the Taxation and Debt that he attributed the distress of the P,oor. It was, therefore, in their name that he 'called for a decrease in the Malt Tax, and an also& ticn of the Corn Bill. Mr. MANSFIELD thought it was impossible to oblige the poor to rernaia in parishes where they did not wish to be. Mr. PHILLIPS had a presumption in favonrof this proposit i on. _ _ Mr. itlCAltbo was pleased to find that the pre. sent plan propose.l to do away with the litigation of which the former plan was the great source. Be. sides, it would give the labourer a fair chance of finding a remuneration for his work. Then all the evils of the debt and taxation would fall on the rick and not on the poor. Mr. M. A. TAYLOR highly eulogised the priori. ple and tendency of his Learned Friend's proposition, which he thought would be productive of great good. Leave was given to bring in the Bill, which Pir. SCA fiLETT accordingly brought in; and on moving that it should be read a first time, the Learned Gen. tieman took occasion to animadvert upon some ob. serrations which had been made as to the principle of the measure. A gallant Friend of his had al. served, that it was calculated to affect the rights MI interests of the poor ; but he could declare that if it had any such tendency, or if it was calculated in aay degree to interfere with the independence of the poor, no man would he more unwilling to introduce or to support it than himself. But he had quite a contrary impression ; and as to the rights ot them he thought it a most fatal maxim to inculcate that the poor had an unlimited right to parochial aid— (Hear, hear, hear).—The Bill was then read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on the 24th instant. BANKRUPT LAWS. Mr. d. SMITH rose to move for leave to Wirt in a NI o amend the Bankrupt Laws. He did not propose to retain albs former propositions on this subject. A provision was made is this Bill to protect the Commissioners in the discharge of their important duties; another to prevent certain frauds; and saw to enable unfortunate bankrupts to obtain thir certificates. lb great object was, to obtain a due execution of the law as k sw stood ; to punish the fraudulent, and to protect the honest Id unfortunate bankrupt. He bad great reason to believe dutib obstacles which were formerly opposed to this Bill, existed o longer.—Leave was then given to bring in the Bill, which ire done; and it was read a brat, and ordered to be read a awed time on Friday next. Lord W. BENTINCK moved an Address to his Majel4, for Copies of the instructions given to Sir W. A'Coutt, relate to the removal of the British troops from Sicily, and rape* the reunion of that Island with Naples.—Ordered. The Report of the Committee of Supply on die Navy E mates was brought up, and the sums in the Reviations war agreed to. - The second reading of the Audit Offics Bill was pagtrl till Friday next, at the suggestion of Mr. H. G. Bainist sol Sir T. BARING. The other Orders of the Day were then diapered of, sa 65 House adjourned. LIST OF THE MINORITY ON MA. LIOOLIRIA NOTION FOR Tin &IMAM OF tax /LS ♦Y.D SEDITIOUS LISELS ACTS. Abercromby, Hn. J. Ferguson, Sir R. C. Phillips, J. Burdett, Sir Francis Gordon, Robert Phillips, G. R. Barham J. F. Griffith; John W. Bickford, W. Baring, 11. Guise, sir W. Russell, Greenhill , . Bernal, ltalph Grahath, Sandford Rice, Spring Benyon, Benj. Ilarbord, lion. Ed. Robarts, A. W. Birch, Joseph Ilurst, Robert Robarts, Caned Bright, 11. Hobhouse, J. C. Ram•den, J. C Boughey, Sir .1. F. llutchinson,lln.C.D.Ricardo, Davit Byng, G. llaldimand, W. Smith, J. IL Bury, Viscount James, William Scarlett, J. _ . Buxton, T. F. . Lushington, Dr. Tierney, Rt. Mx Concannon, J. Lucius Langston, IL Tavistock. Crompton, S. Martin, John Whitbread, S }lg .E ll Chaloner, Robert Moore, Abraham Western, C. C- Calvert, C. Mooch, J. B. Webbe, Edward Coke, T. W. Macdonald, James Wyvint 14 - Calcraft, John Mabirley, John Warre, J. A. Denison, W. J. Milton, Viscount Williams, Witlisa Davies, Colonel Newport, Sir J. Wilson, Sir Rea Dundns, lion. T. Newman, R. W. ....... Ebrington, Lord Nugent, Lord WILDS Folkestone,Viscount O'Grady, S. Leonard, tit Fitzroy, Lord C. Palmer, C. Fysche Des mats Th.. Itlr. J. Wharton paired off with Lord Robert Scam& THE HERMIT IN LONDON continues to mite ill' creased attention. It has been justly observed tt there is nothing more amusing than a w e ll-written work , rn " -- and manners. It 4 to the mind n ea rly what the carnera•7 l , is to the eye ; it presents to us, in our c l ose ts, a piiture,_, l ," external world in miniature, with all its moven:ents and which we thus observe with less trouble and to more than in any other way. Nor is amusement the sole tail": productions. They may serve, if properly executed, wain portant uses, and tend materially to ilenruction, correct's/ 4 _7 h improvement. When we mix in the timed, we ere tool !: taken up with our own "business and desires" to observe": partially the conduct of others, but when this is rep:twit; us as in a glass, we are in a fitter situation to apprealte value of those objects for which the generality of mankind:T o lice their time and their ease, or It may be poolt 44l *" 0 important. The Hermit iu London will, nn doubt, station among the classical works of the saute ileoctirua " have so lung adorned our libraries. r lati ha l yes 1)01