Star. — London, England, 1821-06-28 00:00:00

'RIP t • •11 '..- ' • * ', . ~ Paar s trr . PR 0 CE ED ING S. HaUfS OF LORDS, JUNE 27. •".. .Earl Tarig k LortNjeutenant of Ireland, took the oaths asendhis seat. The Navy Property Bill, the Sheerness Lands Bill, the Jer sey and Guernsey Trade Bill, the Prisoners' Rescue Bill, and the Irish Revenue Inquiry Bill, were brought up from the House of Commons. On the second reading of the Wool Stamping Bill, The Earl of HAREWOOD opposed the principle of the Measure, on the ground, that it would materially affect the com 'ntercial and agricultural interests of the country. This - Scotch Malt Duties Drawback Bill, the Scotch Distil ' leries the Irish Stock Transfer Bill s the Customs Du ties Bill, were committed, and reported. The Marquis of LA NSDOWN said he held in his band a Peti tion from a Gentleman of the name of Gurney, residing in the King's County In Ireland, stating that he had formed a plan for the. beneficial employment of the poor; and praying that the House might adopt the same. The Noble Marquis observed that, for his own part, he could say nothing respecting the merits . of the plan.—The Petition was ordered to lie on dip table. The London Wharfs' Bill went through a Committee, and was reported. A Person from the Commissioners of Margate Harbour pre •ented certain Accounts.—Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. • The Coasting Trade Bill was read a third time, and passed. The Warehousing of Goods Bill was reported, and ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. The Collectors of Customs (Ireland) Bill went through a Committee r and was ordered tobe read a third time to-morrow. The Sheerness Lands Bill, and the Navy Property Bill, were read a third time, and passed. The Acetous Acid, and Draining Tiles Bills, went through a Committee, and were ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. The Hops Exportation Drawback Bill was committed, and ordered to be reported to-morrow. The Report of the Mohair Bounties Bill was brought up and agreed to, and the Bill ordered robe read a third time to-morrow. The Greenwich Hospital Bill was committed, and ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. Lord MILTON gave notice that on the third reading of the Husbandry Horse Duty Repeal Bill, he would move a clause to prevent the surcharging of persons who occasionally let out horses, which they kept for purposes of husbandry, on hire for drawing coals. The Report on the Lagan Spirits Duty Bill was brought up and agreed to, and the Bill was ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. The Report on the Prison Laws Consolidation Bill was brought up and agreed to; the Bill was ordered to be read a second time this day three months, and to be printed. Mr. HUME presented a Petition from several Market Gar deners in Kensington and Fulharti, praying that the benefit of the repeal of the Tax on Husbandry Horses might be extended to then[.—Laid on the table. . Mr. H. G. BENNETT presented a Petition from certain Protestant Dissenters of the County of Nortlitanberland, pray ing that the same privileges may be conceded to them with respect to the celebration of the Marriage Rites, which were en joyed by the RUman Catholics in Ireland, and the Jews and Quakers; and that the celebration of that ceremony by Ministers of their own persuasion might be legalised. Dr. PHILLI MORE said that the Petition contained a mistake as to the Roman Catholics; for, in this country, the " marriages of such persons were not valid, unless they were cele brated according to the rites of the Church of England. Mr. 11. G. BENNETT said that fiat: certainly was a mistake ; it appeared that the Petitioners spoke of the law as it should be, ;let as it :vas—thinking that a greater degree of liberality existed in the cot:eery than, to its disgrace, was to be found in it.---The P.:66mi was laid on the tahle. Mr. CA Lynn' presented a Petition from George White, who was formerly a cenfidential Messenger of Mr. Pitt ; and, for 1:: ..... rte. en year:, a Collector of Taxes. The Petitioner stated, that he had given certain information relative to abuses existing in the col;ection of the Taxes, which was taken in a wrong light, and he was in consequence dismissed from his situation. He prayed the [Louse to investigate his case.—The Petition was or d e red to he printed. The Prisoners' Rescue Bill was read a third time and passed. The Stock Cancelling Bill was committed, and ordered to be reported to-morrow. Mr. S. RICE moved for Copies of all Letters addressed to the Irish Government by the Barons of the Exchequer in Ire- land, relative to the Report of the Commissioners of Inquiry into the Courts of Justice in Ireland.—Ordered. The East India Private Trade Bill was committed, and the Report ordered to be brought up to-morrow. The third reading of the Husbandry Horse Tax Repeal Bill was postponed till to-morrow. NEW STAMP OFFICE, EDINBURGH. Mr. HUME rose to bring forward a motion, of which he had given notice, respecting the purchase of a new Stamp Office at Edinburgh. He said that his object in this proceeding was to lay before the House an instance, in his opinion a glaring one, of the manner in which the Government allowed its patronage to be perverted, in direct opposition to the public interests. He held in his hand a set of papers, furnished by order of the House, and it was from those that he collected the materials upon which his motion was grounded. He might here remind the House that the Hon. Secretary for the Treasury jus tified the increased amount of salaries, so conspi cuous in that department, by alleging that the busi ness had been multiplied of late years, particularly by a variety of correspondence in which it was forced to engage. Let the House now judge of the nature of that increased duty from the specimens before them on this occasion, for here were forty folio pages of correspondence carried on by the Treasury, with respect to a matter totally unconnected with them. Upon this subject he would not enter further, but would proceed to state the facts of the case which he had thought it his duty to lay before the House. It appeared, that for the greater convenience of busi ressy a new Stamp Office was wanted at Edinburgh, and the fact being regularly stated to the Treasury, they directed a proper person, Mr. Sedgwick, to look out for a place in that city. This Gentleman, after some inquiry, fixed on a house in every way, ac cording to his opinion, suited to the purposes of a Stamp Office, and possessing the additional recom mendation that immediate possession would be given. The house was called Dumbreck's Hotel, St. An drew's-square, near the Excise Office. The purchase money was settled to be £8,400. The Commis sioners approved of the purchase, but had reason to fear this economical and convenient arrangement would be obstructed by private influence at the Trea sury. Their fears, unhappily, were realized. The Treasury could not approve of the purchase, but were induced, by private influence, to sanction the pur chase of a scite on what was called the Regent's bridge, at Edinburgh, for the erection of a new building altogether. The House would find that this was one of the grossest jobs that ever came before them. The Honourable Baronet (Sir J. Marjori banks) the active patron of this work, in the first in stance, caused Mr. Lorimer, a builder, in Edinburgh, to send in a proposal for building a new Office on the Regent's-bridge, and the Honourable Baronet accompanied this proposal by a statement of his own, .describing the advantages of the situation, and re • constnending the plan to the attention of the Trea sury. The Board of Commissioners objected to the plan altogether, and preferred the original choice. They saw that the Honourable Baronet's selection Would not only heap a great expense on the Public, bat also that the building, when completed, would be far from being so eligible as that originally pointed ont. In fact, so inferior was the plan altogether, that, out of all the Honourable Baronet's friends in 'Edinburgh, there was but one man, a Mr. Johnston, a grocer, who had ventured to express his approba tion of it. Under these circumstances the Treasury refer the matter to the Board of Works: they refuse, and properly refuse, to give any opinion. What did the Treasury do then? In defiance of the opposi-, rion of the Commissioners of Stamps, and whilst the Board of Works refuse to express any opinion upon the subject, the Treasury, approve of Mr. Lorimer s plan, and order him to proceed with the building— and all this before any contract was completed. But this was not all. Mr. Reid, the King's Surveyor, applied to have the superintendence of the works; this was refused, and a Mr. Elliott was appointed, on the recommendation of Mr. Lorimer. The work went on, however. The Honourable Baronet, anxious that the Treasury should be satisfied of the propriety of the arrangement (for it was not to be concealed 'that the site belonged to him, Sir J. Marjeribanks), sent up a statement of the opinions which he could collect from time CO time, in favour of the eligibility of the site. These opinions were, however, but few; and from men whose authority on architectural mat ters did not deserve much attention. In cases of law, one would think that the best authorities were law yers ; but here was a case, perhaps, of difficulty, upon a point with respect to which architectural men alone were entitled to form an opinion, resolved by Lord Melville and the Lord Advocate: so that it ap peared the Honourable Baronet opposite and Mr. Lorimer could find no other authorities in their fa vour except Lord Melville, the Lord Advocate, and Mr. Johnston, the grocer. It appeared from these papers that the Honourable Baronet complained that no instalments were paid to Mr. Lorimer; but he had no right to complain, for Mr. Rennie wrote to him originally to state hat if he prosecuted the building he did it at his own risk. The House might judge from this and the following instance of the power of the private influence of the Honourable Baronet (Sir J. Marjoribanks) at - the Treasury.—, The Revenue of Scotlandlsay three millions a-year) was remitted to the Treasury by a private banking house, and they were allowed forty days for the pur pose. A proposal was sent in to the Treasury from another qulrter, offering to do it in twenty days, but it was not attended to. The securities were unex ceptionable. The House would be enabled to account fur the inattention of the Treasury in this instance, when they were informed of the fact, that the Hon. Baronet had a considerable interest in the banking house that had possession of the contract. The effect of the adoption of the new proposal would be a saving of £17,000 a-year. The only consequence of the ap plication was, that the Chancellor of the Exchequer was satisfied that the Ilon. Baronet's friends should retain the commission, on their undertaking to ac complish the remittance in thirty days instead of forty. The lion. Member proceeded to explain the superiority of the house which had been originally fixed upon over the new building, in point of conve nience and economy. Behind the former was a space of a hundred feet, which might be used for additional buildings ; but there was no space behind the new building, except a very small one of nineteen feet only, which the Hon. Baronet pledged himself to procure for the suns of £2OO ; that, in addition to the other benefits arising from this job, the House was to learn, that this spot would not be sold for less than a thousand guineas: that sum was actually paid. The Chancellor of the Exchequer, in his good-na tured way, relieving the Hon. Baronet - from this part of his contract, and transferring the expense to the. Public. In order that the House might see the ad vantages of this transaction, he would state the corn parattve expense of the two arrangements. Had Dumbreck's Hotel been purchased, it would have cost the Public 428400; out of which a sum of £6OO was to be deducted, being the probable amount of some valuables in it, leaving a charge of £7BOO only. There was the additional recommendation in this case, that immediate possession would be given. In the other instance, the amount of expense might be estimated thus :—The contracted price of the build ing was £9100; additional charges, £llOl ; Mr. El liott's charge, £3OO or £lOO, the charge for interest on instalments which had not been paid up ; and the last item was 1000 guineas, being the amount of the purchase-money paid fer nineteen feet of ground be hind the new building : the total amount of expense, therefore, was £12,000; and this was paid, as the House would see, for that which might have been procured at £7BOO, with additional conveniences.— The Hon Member moved the following Resolution : " That it appears, from papers laid before the !louse respect ing the purchase of ground for building a new Stamp Office at Edinburgh, that much irregularity has taken place in that trans action, particularly in the selection of a situation on the Regent's liridgc, in the appointment of Mr. Elliott as Superintendant of the Works, in proceeding with the work contrary to the opi nion of the Commissioners of Stamps, and without any contract being signed ; and, lastly, In releasing Sir J. Marjoribanks from an agreement, by which he was pledged to purchase a space of ground for £2OO, for which the sum of .000 guineas was paid, highly injurious to the public interest." The Resolution having been put from the Chair. Sir J. MARJORIBANKS said, he was incapable of any of the dirty work alluded to by the Honourable Gentleman. He should mention the way in which he became engaged in the Stamp-office at Rtlinburgh. The ground on which the new one was built was cer tainly his property. He got an eminent Surveyor to look at the property ; and, on his report, he gave him a credit of £lO,OOO to purchase the ground, which he did. There the Regent's-bridge was built, to make a handsome approach to Edinburgh. He defied any man, let him sit on which side of the House he would, to go less to the Treasury than he did, or to want less of it. But it was proposed to erect a Stamp-office on the ground, which, in his opinion, was nearly as central as Dumbreck's Hotel. The new building was one half larger, and laid out for the express purpose.— Dumbreck's Hotel was to have cost £9900, and the new house was built for £9lOO. He certainly did chew the plans of the place to the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He had been kept a month after his fa mily in town, merely to wait for the Hon. Member's Motion ; and, when he had got this public building erected in three years, though it might have taken thirteen years but for him,' he thought it strange to be censured for it. He should as soon expect to be taken by a watchman, when going home that night, for picking pockets! This was more extraordinary to him than his being once pressed at Dover by a set of fellows, in the hope of getting ome money from him for his release : but Scotchmen,in general, could not be brought to part with their cash so easily.- -(Laughter).—What extra expense took place in this building was done at the desire of the Commissioners of Stamps themselves. He had supported Ministers because he thought they had saved this country from the yoke of the greatest tyrant that ever lived ; and nothing should prevent him from giving them all the support in his power, unless it might be that the Chancellor of the Exchequer should again treat Scotland in the unhandsome way he had once done —(Hear, hear! and laughter). Lord A. HAMILTON disclaimed imputing any corrupt motives to the Right Hon. Gentleman, or the Hon. Baronet, in these transactions. Still he must vote for the Motion, because there was no con tract, no estimate, no security given, nor was the King's Surveyor employed ; the whole was left to the protecting influence of' Sir J. Marjoribanks, the Lord Advocate of Scotland, Lord Melville, and a grocer. He attributed a political, not a pecuniary, interest to the Hon. Baronet in this transaction. His interference was improper, though the motive was not improper. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER denied that the Treasury was bound to give up its opinion to that of any subordinate Board. It would be highly improper that the Stamp-of f ice should be in any way independent of the Treasury. The Chairman of the Commissioners of Stamps had imbibed a notion that Dumbreck's Hotel was the most eligible spot for the new Stamp-office ; but this the Treasury did not agree in. Dumbreck's Hotel would have cost quite as much as the new Stamp•office, before it could have been fitted up as a Public Office. The Hon. Baronet did certainly, in a private conversation with him, offer to purchase the ground behind for fourteen thousand pounds ; but he (the Chancellor of the Ex chequer) would have thought himself disgraced for ever if he had bound down any Gentleman by any hasty expression in a private conversation. Mr. MABEILLEY said, the Public had lost ten' days interest on the remittance of three millions of money from Scotland, by not accepting his offer of transmitting it in twenty days. He complained that the Scotch Bankers gave the Clerks in his establish ments in that country as much unfair and dishonour able annoyance as they could. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY spoke to order. He did not see how the question of the remittance of the revenue of Scotland had anything to do with the building a house for the Stamp-office at Edinburgh. Mr. HUME contended that no answer was given by the Chancellor of the Exchequer as to the irregu larity of the interference of the Treasury. It was clear, from the statement of the Hon. Baronet him • self, that the. building of this Stamp-office was a job. He was not for controuling the Treasury, but he thought that Board ought not to take to itself entirely what belonged to a minor Board. Sir GEORGE CLERK said, the site of the build • inti was the best adapted to the wants of the people of Edinburgh. • The Motion was then negatived without a division. MR. TitropottE • IIOOK. Mr. BENNETT rose to move for Accounts of the 13arances due to Government by Mr. T. Hook, for public money passing into his hands in the Mauri tius. On the 15th of January, 1818, the Acting Go vernor received a letter limn a Clerk in the -Trea surer's Office, that Mr. Hook had appropriated £4O of an allowance to the Office to his own use. Mr. Allen, the Treasurer, also mentioned, that 37,150 dollars had not been carried to account by Mr. Hook, and that he was surprised that the Auditor had not discovered it. Mr. Hook discharged Mr. Allen from his office, and then told him he was a ruined man. Mr. Hook caused him afterwards to be told, that he (Mr. Allen) must quit the Island, by order of the Governor; but that he would allow him a salary of £2.5 a-year. Allen applied to the Governor, who told him he had never given the order for him to quit the Island. Soon after, Allen wrote a letter in a state of derangement; but a Committee was ap pointed to examine the charges he had made, and it was found that there was a deficiency of 68,148 dol lars. Hook was deprived of his situation, and sent home; but he had not heard that any steps had been taken to punish him, or to oblige him to return that money. He wished to have a copy of the Dispatch of Governor Hall, respecting the deficiency of Mr. 'T. Hook. He wished to ask, whether that person had any sureties ? for if he had, Government should come on them to make good his deficiencies. He then moved for a copy .of that part of the Dispatch of the Governor of the Mauritius respecting the sus pension of Mr. T. Hook; and an account of the ba lances due by him to the Government of that colony. Mr. GOULBURN could have no objection to the production of this Dispatch; but it did not contain all relating to Mr. Hook's case. A case had been submitted to the Law Officers of the Crown, and they said that Mr. Hook could not be detained in custody, and that there were no grounds to warrant a crimi nal prosecution. But an inquiry had been gone into, and a case again had been submitted to the Law Of ficers, whether Mr. Hook could be criminally pro secuted? Till a decision was come to, he appre hended it would be improper to produce the docu ment demanded. He could only say, that all the property of Mr. Hook had been applied to make good the deficiency. Mr. BENNETT consented to withdraw the motion. EXPENDITURE OF THE COMMIT. Mr. HUME rose to make the motion of 'whith he had formerly given notice. There was all over the country a cry of distress, and the only remedy for that he believed to be a reduction of the National Ex penditure. The Report . of the Agricultural Com mittee had pointed out retrenchment as the only means of relief.. There was but one opinion, that the expenditure of the country was upon too large a scale, and that various items might have been re duced. He did not despair of the state of the coun try, if a proper use were made of the great resources it possessed. In 1792, the interest of the Public Debt was £9,534,000; and, in 1821, it amounted to 1:32,600,000. He, with the Member for Portarling ton, had examined the Public Accounts, and for each year, since 1813, ;here had been a variation in the Public Debt. By the Public Accounts it appeared there had been a reduction of only fbur millions for the last five years ; and the statement of the Chan cellor of the Exchequer, that there had been a reduc tion of twenty-nine millions, was wholly unfounded . The charge of the Debt to the Public had pro ves. sively increased, and would be more this yea r d ian in any of the former. In the last four years th e ; certainly had been no diminution of the Publi c Debt, but an increase of £lOO,OOO. He must e ta s contend, that a reduction could be made to the et , tent of four millions, and that without wealtem m , the energy of Government in any of its bran c h es : . The House was to be told what Ministers had d am and not what they meant to do, as had been pr am tised by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. From t h e year 1817 to the present, there had been a gr a d ed increase of the expense for the Army, Navy, am Ordnance. The expense of the present year had less than that of 1820, by £525,000; but, a t th e same time, had exceeded that of 1817, 1818, a m 1819. In 1792, the expense of the Army amounted only to £233,000, and, in the present year, b e d amounted to £8,900,000. In the same year regi the expense of the Navy was little above a ;1% 0 4 while in the present year it had exceeded six What in the year 1792 had only cost the coun try four millions, now amounted•to sixteen millions; a y at the same time the National Debt had inae me l from 210 to 836 millions. The Member for yak, shire had said he could not vote with him (af r. Hume) as he had stated what Ministers had ma. tradicted. An Honourable Member on his ov, i side of the House had 'stated that he could 110( concur with 'him, as he stated opinions and no t facts. The expense of the country had increased pro. gressively from 1817, and in the last yea r h a l amounted to 70 millions. On a former occasion the Noble Marquis had said " Give us details f' he OIL Hume) had endeavoured to snit tlle taste of that Noble Lord. In the present year there had been a diminution in the expense of the Army of £163,00C, but that had arisen from the Chancellor 01 the E. chequer having put off several items to another)e e . The Honourable Member proceeded to analyse sere. ral of the charges for the Public Service; and cols tended that on each a great saving might be ef. fected. An addition had been made of i:10,003 to the Horse Guards, which was wholly unnecessary. The expense of a Dragoon was £36 a-year, and that of a Horse Guar d £76. The mode of giving away Commissions was productive of much abuse, and he had a list of 333 persons, who, the day after meia ing them; were put on the half-pay. In the last five years no new Commission had been given by the Admiralty, but all the promotions had been made from the half-pay; while in the same time 508 Com missions had been given away by the Commander. in-Chief. The Honourable Member here went over the same ground that he had done when the Army Estimates had come before the House. More than 240 Officers had been brought from the Line into the Veteran Battalions, and placed on full pay, a an expense to the country of £13,000 a-year. He had proposed a reduction of £20,000 men, and the would have produced a saving of £1,053,000. The Honourable Gentleman proceeded to compare the different charges in the year 1792 and in the pram year, and pointed out the great increase that had taken place. The expense of building ships for tht last seven years had been £17,000,000. In the & ferent dock-yards, £22,000 more was paid for super• intending the docks, than for all the other charges The Chancellor of the Exchequer had said, when he laid on three millions of taxes, that he would have a Sinking Fund of five millions, but at the utmost it had only been £900,000. The expense ofmanaging the Revenue came to £1,000,000, and he could can. fidently state, that a saving might be made to the amount of £1,200,000. He had heard with equal surprise and regret, that none of the recommenda tions of the Finance Committee could be carried into effect till the next year. He should hope a Bill, if necessary, would be brought in to diminish the per centage paid to the Receivers of the Revenue. Be was confident that in the case of the distribution of stamps, persons would be found who would do the duty at half the salary now paid. The negligence in collecting the revenue was inconceivable, except to those who had examined the subject with equal care as himself. In Scotland an increase had takes place in the per centage in collecting the revenue, from 3 9-lOths to 8 9-10ths. In Ireland there had been a diminution in the revenue of upwards of half a million, while in the expense of collecting it, the increase had been £15,000. The savin i n a ll might be made to the amount of more than four millions. At the same time, he would propose to take off the tax on candles, salt, soap, and leather ; and the might still be done by a short Bill on Friday. The amount of the taxes he proposed to take off would be about £3,300,000. In France, every man in office, with the King at their head, made a large sacrifice of income; and in America, the half of official is come had been given up. Why was not that example followed in this country? The more there was lei in the pockets of the Public, the more would the le venue increase (Hear, hear).—The Honourable Mete ber concluded by moving an Address to the Crows, praying for an inquiry into the collection and me nagement of the revenue, and for an adjustment ci salaries and emoluments to the standard of 1797, 1 a also for a reduction of the Arm y—(Hens, hear). The Marquis of TAVISTOCK having been Abel during most of the discussions on the Estimates, happy to take the opportunity of seconding this ear tion, to do the Hon. Gentleman who had just dt down an act of justice, by acknowledging the viii and importance of the services which he had , * dered the country by his zealous exertions,+,. had placed him high in the estimation and w, dente of the People of England—(Cheers). "IN N ' however, he did justice to the zeal, activity, ele . . _ i d P ei ' severance of the Hon. Member, he must be to say that he could not but lament to see that* necessity should have existed for dragging bei° ll their view the minute details of official arranges through which they had toiled. He was serrf! see the House departing from its ancient and zot,r . tutional practice, and taking on itself any part 0 1 , functions of the Executive Government--(Crierf Hear, hear, hear). Under the existing circumstan c ,_ however, with a Ministry obstinately persevering"' profligate expenditure and waste of public and determinedly d e e f te e r c n n i n in n e m d y ly , hopepwosaesd ready d th y e te adopon d 31)1 admit that w. pe g ' haps the only way of enforcing retrenchment vasf e adopting the course which had been taken . le• • Hon. Member for Aberdeen, and which be had i lowed with so much ; anJ, at least t::i, V I- , , 1. •