Star. — London, England, 1821-03-06 00:00:00

. fless , at this moment, in a situation very much ;,; es obling that of France immediately before the josslution. Its finances were embarrassed, the peo _lr t h r oughout the whole country were in a state of were e• suffering, and many considered themselves as s houted from that country, on account of the exemp tions from taxation which were enjoyed by a privi leged order. Under such circumstances he consi agred i t eq ually just and expedient that the fund jeader should contribute to relieve the country. He At ocluded with Moving for a Return of the amount d 3 11. stock transferred in the Bank of. England for o e lsa ten years, ending 1820, excepting those trans fers w hich had been made in reference to the Public pet, and distinguishitg . the sums for each year. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER as *red the Honourable Member that he was far from A im ing him with any wish or intention to subvert ih e Public Credit; but he must say that the measure r ei l l i t h he proposed deserved all the reprobation that ) ei ej been bestowed upon it—(Hear, hear). Revert s., to the Honourable Member's proposition, he ;I t observe, that if it was allowed to operate once, then was no reason why it should not be afterwards applied to the whole and every part of the system of b u ying and selling—(Hear). It should also be re collected that property of the kind here contemplated cou ld be easily transferred to foreign funds—( Hear, kar)—and if the Honourable Member's principle wer e applied to it, he did not know what mi g ht b e the Teat. seeing that at present the only advantage which the British fundholder possessed over every other was the superior security which this country enjoyed—(Hear hear, hear). That would be no longer the cased the principle in question weresar intoeffect, and indeed before it could be brought into operation, the general cry would be suave qui rat—(Hear, bear). Thus, the capital which em oloyed the industry of the country would be reduced to nothing, and it would soon be seen that any mea sure whic h' violated the good faith, would take away also from the solid defence of the country—(Hear, leer). On these principles, without going farther Sao detail, he felt it his duty to oppose the motion. Mr. JOHN MARTIN observed, that as the re striction on the Bank was not a permanent measure, so it was known when the public contracted loans that an alteration must take place at some time or other in the value of the currency. After a few words in explanation from the CHAN CILLOR of the ExcueQuEst, the motion was negatived. MR. ELLIS. Dr. LUSHINGTON said, as the motion which he had to make directly affected an Honourable and Learned Gentleman opposite to him, he should dis charge the task which was imposed on him with as such brevity as possible. It was not necessary for lim to state, that in Courts of Equity all the most rariour and complicated questions of property were aided—that where accounts were to be taken, where tbeestates of bankrupts, or lunatics, or minors, were isquestion, the Courts of Equity had an almost ex clusive jurisdiction. It was not to be concealed, that though justice was ultimately done in these Courts, verylseavy burthens were imposed on the suitors by delay, and it was their duty to see that this great evil was not still further augmented. The basis on which be should found the motion he was about to submit to the House was, that the Honourable Member for Dtblin could not discharge the duties of Master in Chancery in Ireland—that he must neglect either his duties as Master or as Member of Parliament--and that, therefore, as the house had a paramount and compulsory claim on the service of all its Members. the suitors in Chancery must be necessarily the suf faers. In stating to the Nouse what the duties of the Honourable Gentleman as Master in Chancery were, he had the very best evidence, that of a Com mission appointed by the Crown, an:l of the Honour able Member himself upon oath. The Honourable Member, he should premise, had purchased the re signation of his predecessor, Mr. Walker, in 1807, in pursuance of a long custom, with the evil of which the Honourable Memberwaas not chargeable, though the practice had generated a whole train of abuses in the administration of justice in Ireland. No man meld read the Report of the Commissioners of In quiry without perceiving that the administration of Justice in Leland, for the last thirty years, had been a system of corruption, and was disgraceful to those by whom it was administered—(Hear, hear).—From the Report of the Commissioners, it appeared that me of the Six Clerks had charged 1,297 attendances a single cause, without having attended even once! s-{Hear, hear).—This was only one of the many *uses which prevailed up to the present day, to the great injury of the suitors in the different Courts.— The Honourable and Learned Member (Mr. Ellis) entered upon his office of Master in Chancery in the Cear 180 G. Whe n e xam i ne d upon oat h b e f ore t h e ommissioners, he stated that the duties of his office sere various and difficult—piers the Honourable itemiser referred to the Report, in which it was stated that the Master in Chancery had to attend to the use of lunatics, taxing bills of costs, bankrupts' al: fairs, and, in short, whatever it might please the Lord Chancellor to refer to them]. Could any one doubt that the absence of any Gentleman who had such va rious duties to attend to, must be productive of the most serious injury to the suitors in the Irish Court of Chancery?—(Hear, hear,)--The next question pat to the Honourable and Learned Member by the Commissioners was, as to the length cf time which as necessary to the performance of those duties.— tpon this point he had the most unanswerable evi f!ence—the evidence of the llonourable and Learned Itemiser himself, which was corroborated by two !her Masters in Chancery. The Honourable and learned Member stated, that the duties of his office tequired his personal attendance during ten months tf the year that he attended in his office from eleven till four every day in Term, and out of Term, more M less, as business requited—and that he also at ded in his office in the evening, for the dispatch various branches of business connected with Isis How, then, could any Gentleman so oc upied attend to his Parliamentary duties without in- Jary to the Public ? It was impossible that a man, tinder such circumstances, could discharge his duty, e ll : ess he could make forty-ei g h t h ours out o f twenty . mans In another part of the Report, the lion. and Learned Member stated, that the duties of his office tnuld not be discharged by deputy—(Hear). —He busted, • then, notwithstandin g th e -d esperate s i tuat i on whi ch lide _..motions arisin g f rom his (Dr. Lushington's). 91 the House WIN genetally placed, that. the • • - Members of the Sister Kingdom, at !bast, would get rid of •party prejudices, and e x e r t t h emse l ves i n fa vour Of their country—that they would reflect upon the situation in which recent circumstances had placed that unhappy country, and endeavour to pre serve to the suitors in the Courts, at least, a wreck of their fortunes. lie presumed that the Honourable and Learned Member (Mr. Ellis), or his friends, would say, that the moticn with which he was about to conclude would operate as an ex post facto law, and go on to argue that no such motion should be made until all the mischief complained of was done. If he knew anything of the nature of an ex pest judo law, his motion would be totally different from it.— He would allow the mischief to be done rather than introduce an er post facto law to prevent it. The fact, however, was this. The Honourable Member's office was conferred during . pleasure. Now, if he could shew that the holding of such an office was in compatible with the duties of a Member of Parlia ment, he trusted that he would establish his case.— The Honourable Member wa's appointed to his office in 1806, and he (Dr. Lushington) was happy to say, that he was fully qualified for the duties imposed upon him ; but this was an additional reason why he objected to the absence of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman from his office. Two or three Masters in Chancery had been recently appointed, none of whom could be supposed to possess the knowledge and experience of the Honourable and Learned Mem ber. The fees of office were stated by the Honour able Member himself to amount to £3710 a-year.— Ile meant no imputation upon the Honourable and Learned Member, when he stated that those fees had been principally created, within the last twenty•five years, by the Masters themselves, for their own bene fit. In addition to the fees, the Honourable Mem ber had a salary of 1:400 a-year, which, with half the fees of the Examining Clerk, made the situation I.worth £1,400 a-year—a sum as large as the salary of any Puisne Judge of this country. The Honour able Member in support of his argument, quoted the cases of several Members who had been arrested. by order of the House, though their excuse was having gone to attend the duties of Public Offices in Ireland. Suppose that a Call of the House were to take place, would'it be a good answer on the part of the Ho nourable and Learned Member to say, that he was engaged in inquiring into a complicated and difficult question connected with his office? The Honour able Member, alluding to the previous discussions on this question, observed, that the Noble Lord oppo- site (Castlereagh) and a Right Honourable Fi iend of his now abroad (Mr. Cannin, had declared, that in the event of the Honourable Member's wishing to re tain bath his seat and his office, they had not the slightest objection to au Address being moved to the Crown, praying his removal from his situation of Master in Chancery—(Hear, hear). This he had heard from the Noble Lord, and he now called upon him to make good his assertion. The Honourable Member, after some further observations, concluded by moving a series of Resolutions, the purport of which was, that the situation of Master in Chancery (Ireland) required the constant attendance of the per son filling that office ; and that Thomas Ellis, Esq. Master in Chancery, who had been recently elected Member of Parliament for the City of Dublin; was 'incapable of efficiently discharging both these du ties. The Honourable Member said, he meant to fol low this motion up by another, praying an Address to the Clown for the dismissal of Thomas Ellis, Esq. from his office of Master in Chancery in Ireland. Mr. LENNARD, of Ipswich, seconded the mo tion.s He contended that it was utterly impossible for the same person to discharge fairly and faith fully the duties of the two situations. His duties as a Master in Chancery required his constant attend ance in Ireland ; whilst his duties as a Member of Parliament, which must supersede all others, called for his attendance in the House of Commons. The old adage," that no man could serve GOD and Mam mon," was verified in this case ; for whilst Mr. Ellis was attending his duties in Parliament, the interests of the suitors in Chancery must be sacrificed. A conversation then took place between the SPEAKER and Mr. C. WYNN as to a point of order in the proceedings ; namely, whether the Member for Dublin should be heard before the question was put or after? It was decided, however, that the Hon. Member should be heard before the question was put. Mr. ELLIS then rose and observed, that he should now only state a few facts, and offer 4 few observa tions in explanation. Could he have doile it consistent with his duty, lie would have withdrawn from this contest ; but the misrepresentations which had gone abroad day after day, and the consideration that it was not a question relating to himself alone, but one which concerned the Empire, and the future rights of others, whether the Elected or the Electors, he felt that he could not withdraw himself from the expla nation. Much had been said on the subject of his answers to the questions put to hint when formerly examined as to the duties of his office. It was true he stated that he attended at his office daily to trans act the business which came before him for at least ten months in the year ; but this was only an answer as to his own habits and customs, and did not prove that his attendance daily was necessary. His next answer was, perhaps, more distinct—namely, that there was daily business, more or less, for Masters in Chancery. True, it was so ; but he was not so vain as to presume that, with many other Masters in Chan cery much more able than himself, his absence could be material. Indeed, he knew it was not ; he had an unanswerable proof of it, for at the time lie left Dub lin, a fortnight ago, not a single paper *as left on his desk undisposed of.—The Honourable Gentleman then entered into an explanation of the course of business, and the mode of doing it, in the Master's Office in Ireland ; and contended that no inconveni ence or injury could arise to the suitors in Chancery from his absence. If the House should determine otherwise, he was free to confess, he must resign his seat in Parliament, for he could not resign his office ' in Chancery. fie shoal,' now retire ; and if he should never again enter the House, if his voice s h ou ld never again he beard within the walls, he should have ! the conscious satisf.ictien of knowing, that the last I time he raised his voice there, it was in defence of his own rights, and in defence of the rights and franchises of his Constituents.—The Hon. Member then bowed and retired. The question having been put, Mr. PEEL said, he believed this was the tirst time such a question as the present had .been agitated, and that the House had beets called oq to approach the Throne ''to pray the removal' of an individual from office on a suspicion that there might be a neg lect of duty. At present there had been no neglect. The House, it would be recollected, had the power to enforce the attendance of its Members; but did they always do so ? Was not the contrary the fact ? He would ask how it was with Members holding rank in the Army or Navy ? had not such Members been absent during the war for a great length of time? and more than this—that it should be recollected, that many of these individuals had been appointed to offices, removing them from their Parliamentary duties after their elections, and that the removal was not contemplated by their Constituents at the time they selected them as their Representatives ; but in the present case, the Electors tf Dublin selected Mr. Ellis, well aware of the office he held, and the pro bability there was that he must, by his duties in Chancery, be sometimes drawn from his attendance in Parliament ; or, by his attendance in Parliament, be obliged to neglect his duties as Master in Chan cery ; still they selected him as the object of their choice. The Right Hon. Member then proceeded to comment on the case of Mr. Culliford, quoted by Dr. Lushington, and contended it had no bearing on the present case. The House did not address for the removal of Mr. Culliford because he held office, but they complained of him for having refused to.at tend his duties in the House, when called on to do so by the House. The Right Honourable Gentleman then proceeded to comment on the hardship of the present proceeding. The House, last Session, endea voured to get rid of Mr. Ellii by an ex post, facto law. They failed in that point, and now they were endea vouring to carry to the Throne an es post facto Ad dress. In 1801 a Statute wa s passed, in which it.was stated what offices should constitute. ineligibility to sit in Parliament. Master in Chancery was not in that list. English Masters in Chancery were eligible. Irish Masters had been, and by this Statute still were; yet as soon as the people of Dublin, acting on this principle, had elected a Master in Chancery to repre sent them, the House turned round on them, and said, true, you have elected a person eligible by Statute, but we will get rid of him, by addressing the King to remove him from his office, if he does not resign his seat. The Right Honourable Gentleman concluded. by opposing the motion. Mr. ABERCROMBIE supported the Resolution. No injury could be done to Mr. Ellis by the adoption of this motion; that Gentleman had accepted a seat in Parliament, well knowing, at the time he did so, that the duties attached to it were incompatible with those of the situation of a Judge, which he held.— Mr. Ellis had now an opportunity of sheaving his attachment to the - people of Dublin, by sacrificing his lucrative situation, and adopting that of their Repre sentative. Unless he did so, he trusted Mr. Ellis would remain no longer a Member of that House. Mr. BROWNLOW opposed the motion, as one of the most cruel and unjust he had ever known. Lord CASTLEREAGH said, he should divide the subject into three heads—first, as to the general ex pediency of some regulation respecting the office of Master in Chancery in Ireland ; secondly, as to the particular case of Mr. Ellis ; and thirdly, as to the situation in which the majority of the House stood, who had voted last year for the Chancery Bill. With regard to the last, he had expressed his concurrence in the clause for excluding the individual from his seat, but not from his office; but he had never con sidered that he was bound to pass by the House of Lords after they had rejected it, and to do that by Address which they had refused to do by legislation. That, indeed, would be to place the House in such an attitude, with respect to the Lords, as no prudent man could desire. He was ready to admit the great incon gruity of any Irish judicial officer holding a seat in that House; and such was his impression when this case was before under the consideration of that House ; but yet, since that period, he had found that Mr. Ellis's situation formed a special case ; for at that period he was not aware that this Gentleman had bought his office, paying no less a sum than nine or £10,000; that at the time he made this purchase, he was not aware that his tenure of the office would exclude him from a seat in Parliament ; nay, more, that when elected by the citizens of Dublin, he had no reason to think himself ineligible to that seat.— Under these circumstances, and considering that there was less pregnant public necessity for the exclusion of the Hon. and Leatmed Gentleman than he had contemplated upon the first view of the subject, he could not accede to the motion, although he was ready to agree to any measure for excluding Irish Judicial Officers from that House in future, except ing the particular case of Mr. Ellis. Mr. PLUNKETT felt all the respect which was due to Mr. Ellis for his talents and general conduct; at the same time he felt bound to say, that Masters in Chancery ought not to have seats in Parliament. The prospective regulation admitted by the Noble Lord and the Right Hon. Gentleman, shewcd the in compatibility of the two situations. He concluded with repeating his respect for the Learned Gentle man, whose ineligibility to sit in that House, he (Mr. Plunkett) stated publicly at the hustings in Dublin, before his election—adding, that he thought the House itself likely to declare him ineligible, not the cause be was in any respect incompetent to the duties of a legislator, but because he could. not perform such duties in conjunction with those of an Irish Master in Chancery—because, in a word, the Learned Gen tleman could not do impossibilities—(Hear, hear). Dr. LUSHINGTON, in his reply, stated, that he took the words which he had imputed to the Noble Secretary of State from the concur rent reports of all the Journals he could find, with respect to what the Noble Lord said when this question was before under the consideration of that House, those reports too being confirmed by the testimony of several Mem bers of that House. The Noble Lord had, however, thought proper to deny those words; but hoar this denisl and the Noble Lord's change of opinion, lie must say, that he should never again allow himself to be wedded to any confidence in the declared opi nion of the Noble Lord, considering the ingenuity with which lie could change his opinion, and the man ner in which he could assert that new lights broke in upon him to call for that change. He saw, however, that those new lights broke in also upon several Gen tlemen, for they were all babes of grace! (Hear, h ea r). But, notwithstanding the aberration of the Noble Lord and his immediate adherents from.their former professed sentiments upon this subject, he trusted that the House would, in justice and humaniti, ac-, • . cede to the Irish Court of Chancery, that attention which they had a right to expect. At all events, he was determined (however .the Noble bond might desert his native land) to do all the justice In hispower to wards the very interesting and much-injured people of that country. The House then divided, and the numbers were_ For the Motion - - - - 52 Against it 119 Majority for the Minister - 0 Dr. LUSHINGTON give notice of a motion for Thursday next, for leave to bring iu a Dill t.> declare persons holding cer_ taia high offices in Ireland ineligible to sit in that House. He extended his notice beyond that point in which the Noble Lord had declared his disposition -to acquiesce, in consequence of a doubt expressed to him by the Solicitor-General with respect to the eligibility of Irish Judges. CRIMINAL LAWS. Mr. DUG DA LE moved for leave to bring in a Bill for the summary Punishment of Juvenile Offenders. The object of the Bill was, to enable any two Magistrates, in cases of slight de. linquency, to commit offenders, under the age of sixteen, to hard labour for a limited period.- - Leave given. The other Orders of the thy were then disposed of, and the House Adjourned at nearly Two o'Clock. f ' 7 NEAPOLITAN PAPERS. The Giornale Constitution:4le of Feb.ls, contains a Report, addressed to the Pttt sce REGENT by the Duke of GALL°, on his mission to Laybach. Tills Report describes the manner in which the Duke was_inter valued on his journey ; directed to geoto Gorice,and, finally, only called to th e C ongress to rece i ve the de cision of that body, and the letter and instructions of the King of NAPLES. The Report concludes thus 4, With respect to the Powers who have taken part in the said deci.,ions of the Congress of Layhach, it is my duty to inform your Rnyal Highness that Cer tainly Austria, Prussia, and Russia, may be consi. dered as those which have unanimously adopted the measure of acting hostilely against the order of things existing in Naples. The French Plenipotentiaries at the Congress have, indeed, adhered by a vet bal note to the instructions given to the Ministers of the be forementioned three Powers, solely with the hope of being able to avert a war ; wherefore they may, in this respect, be considered as included in this unani mity. But they have not engaged in the name of France to take any active and hostile part in the exe cution of the decision in case of war . _ _ "Indeed, the letter of his Most Christian Majesty to our Monarch, and the declaration delivered to your Royal Highness by the French Charge d'Affaires, may be considered as giving full assurance on this point. His Britannic Majesty not only does not con cur in the principles and hostile measures of the three Powers, but has also declared his perfect neutrality in what relates to the question of the Kingdom of Naples. That Sovereign has declined to partiCipate as a deliberating party in the Congress of Laybach, or to nominate to it his Plenipotentiary ad hoc," but has merely ordered his Minister already accredited to the Emperor of Austria, to attend the conferences purely as a witness, in order that his Britannic M. jesty might be informed of the determinations which the said three Powers should adopt. The other Mi• nisters of the Italian Powers have also taken no part in the deliberatiqns. Therefore, as officially inti mated to your Royal Highness in a conference de manded and ohtaiued by the Ministers chargtd to make known the Resolutions of the Congress of Lay bach, the Ministers of Ifussia, Prussia, and Austria, have alone taken part in these conferences, and those of England and France have no: thought fit to par ticipate therein. " The facts which I have the honour to detail in the above Report, I have previously thought it my duty to communicate to your Royal Highness in successive dispatches. (Signed) " The Duke of GALLO. Naples, February 16, 1521." TRANSLATION OF A DISPATCH FROM COUNT NEUF:ERODE, MINISTER FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS TO THE EMPEROR OF RUSSIA, TO COUNT . STACEELRERG, ENVOI' EXTRAORDINARY AND MINISTER PLERIPO. TERTIARY FROST THE COURT or RUSSIA TO IcArLES. To enable your Excellency to take a complete view of the object of the important mission which his Ma jesty the Emperor has entrusted to you, .and which yoit have to fulfil in concert with the Minister of Prussia, the Charge d'Affaires of Austria, and the Charge d'Affaires of France, it is necessary to make known to your Excelleney the reciprocal explanations which, since the arrival of the King of Naples at Laybach, have taken place between that Monarch and the Allied Sovereigns, and the result to which the de liberations of their Plenipotentiaries at the Congress has led. ,His Majesty the King of Naples, deeply interested in knowing the intentions of the Allied Monarchs in their full extent, relative to the affairs of his kingdom, addressed for that purpose to the Con gress of Plenipotentiaries a Message, stating— " That having accepted, with a sense of as great importance, the invitation of his High Allies, in the hope of conciliating that welfare which he was desir ous his people should enjoy, with the duties which the Allied Monarchs might consider themselves called upon to fulfil towards their States, and towards the whole world ; and iu the hope of yet causing to dis appear, under the auspices of peace and concord, those obstacles which for six months have separated his States from the European Alliance; being unable to disguise to himself the unpleasant impression which the events that have recently occurred in his kingdom have produced in Europe, and having reason to fear its consequences ; having recognised with the Most lively satisfaction that the Allied Sovereigns, faithful to the principles of justice, suavity, and moderation by which they have constantly been guided, have wished to take no definitive me.,snie wlth regard to Naples until they had tried the means of conciliation, which they would prefer to the object which at present unite; them ; and by being able, as long as the King could flatter himself that he should be able to give validity to a title so dear to his lean as that of Me. diatar for his subjects, his Majesty was anxious to concert with his Allies the means of sparing to his country the miseries with which he saw it threatened: but in order to fulfil, with any hole of success, the important duty which was imposed upon him, he demanded'i l°all that his Alli es s h ou ld d ec l are, ‘ first of reserve,their intentio ns •t o t h e f u ll extent, convinced ti ahe was that they would nct fail to give to the world on this occasion a new proof of those elevated sentiments, and of those just and enlightened views, ss hich,form the basis of their political conduct." The arsaVer to this first overture was as follows : ' "That inasmuch as hi 3 Sicilian Majesty could not be ignorant of the painful impressions produced by the events which had happened at Naples since the '1 1.. e • • 1 i