Star. — London, England, 1823-06-06 00:00:00

' Lord Chancellor, that " such was the way in which t hat decre e was pronounced ?" II these assertions were . warranted, was it fit that a Committee should be ap pointed to inquire into facts which, if true ought to be Ing le the subject of an impeachment? The Hon. weer sa id he had brought forward this proposition at t he grievance complained of had been admitted, an d the remedy attempted to be supplied in 1813 had completely failed. He should have thought, when t h e o bject was to shew that the evil was as great now as MlBl3, that the Learned Gentleman would have Dad recourse to some authentic document, to shew neat a mount of business was now before the Court. He b eg ged to state what the amount of business was j a June, 1323. At present there were standing to be hea d before the Lord Chancellor and Vice-Chancel -560 causes. The Learned Gentleman had, he aeught , use d rather a hard expression when lie de icribed the view taken by the Attorney-General of faniness in arrear, to be a quibble. He felt himself , om pelled to take the same course. He thought it , :ev ,ary to know what was in art ear to consider the : A A nu mber of causes to be heard and bills filed, r d that with reference to the time when tfiey were pit down fora hearing. The bills filed altogether 3 the course of 1822 had amounted to 2180. In Is , 2o,the number was 2220. In 1821, 2071. In the resen t year the number already filed was 1038. 'ese added to the 2189 filed last year gave a total o f eeaa since January, 1822. Ile did not consider it was correct to say because such a number of cases were before the Court on a i iven day, that there was w ear to that amount. ii;t if on any given day, my t h e sth of January, 1822., it should appear that sich a number of causes had been set down to be heard three years ago, that business he should call an arrear. This might be fallacious reasoning, but it l as no quibble. The bulk of the cases which now good for heating had been set down since Michael mas Term, last year. The number of cases under the L ea d of" Further Directions," now before dig Court, was one hundred and twenty-five. Two months re rineJ before the long vacation to dispose of these.— Visiting to take a fair view of the arrear, he had yes taday inquired what it had been before the corn rencement of the last long vacation, and had found t:at the number of cases under this head which were among the most important as suitors, which bad not been finally disposed of at tl, rt time, did not exceed 0. He would venture to lay it down as a position, f.at with the exception of appeals, there was no busi rss in the Cow t of ChaMcery which could be called i-larear. lie meant that a suitor might now go into Court, and get his cause heard without its being set ion in die list of arrears, and that in as short a time, a s horter, than he ever could before. He knew that sa opposite opinion was wen lined by some Gentle- Yen, but he hoped they would not meet his position rah a mere contradiction, but shew that such delay Las incurred by suitors.—The office which now re clined for him to notice was that of the Master of case Rolls. When Sir William Grant retired at Mi enelmas Term, 1816, the number of causes unheard tam 480; since that period 817 had been set down, zai the number remaining to be heard was now 61. Lints 1,179 causes had been disposed of within that ieriod, and he stated these independent of the peti eons. The petitions heard amounted to the number 15,003, though lie was willing to allow that these id not consume much time. It was said that on his tided the House they had not answered the addi tional facts brought for ward by the Hon. Member fir Durham. He would state to the House why he bad not answered them ; because at the time he heard them, he knew they could not possibly have any foundation in truth, or even in probability. There sis one case in is hich it was said that the Term fees EX one year amounted to 100/. He had since applied through a different channel in order to possess him self of the documents upon which that statement was founded by the Hun. and Learned Member; and he tail ascertained that the most unaccountable mistake Lad been committed. In the civillest language he could use, he would say that he could not coeceive how his Hon. and Learned Friend could think there was the slightest truth in the matter, and he would therefore only conclude that there had been a gross mistake. In the case of Beer and Harwood, it had been partly charged by his I lon. and Learned Friend, that the Lord Chancellor had made a surreptitious decree. Mr. WILLIAMS--" Never." Mr. COURTENAY proceeded to read the words ashebad heard them fall from his Hon. and Learned Friend. This statement was, that the Solicitor com plained of a surreptitious decree having been given. lir. WILLIAMS—" Hear, hear ; that I did say." Mr. COURIENAY said he knew his Hon. and Learned Friend was too guarded to make such a shargehimself, but what was the impression his state rama conveyed to the House, if it was not an accusa tion of such a decree having been made? What was the meaning of v hat followed? After stating the it; he left it to the consideration of every Gentleman is the House, and let them see how the Hon. Gentle man who spoke last understood it. That Hon. and Learned Gentleman he was sure would not shrink bow owning, in the bold and manly manner in which lealways spoke his opinions, that to his mind such am the charge made. The charges for the alleged itendances having been disallowed, was at least roof that the evidence possessed by the Hon. and l Learned Gentleman was of too loose a nature to *say a - charge so grave. When Lord klldon heard that his receiving the assistance of the party in pri vate bad given offence to the adverse Solicitor, he mentioned the subject publicly in Court, and stated taut Upon the best of his judgment and experience thoughtire it • best to have such private assistance in some cases, for the sake of accuracy and clear ness in the minutes, and that it was always his in tention to do so ii hen necessary—(lleer, hear). — Om Hon. and Learned Gentleman then went through the cases which bad been mentioned as examples of delay, and sheaved that it was owing either to the! peculiar intricacies of the questions, or to the con duct of the parties themselves and their Solicitor s.— "lhe number of appeals from all the Courts, and upon all the business of a wealthy population of 33 mil lions, now before the Lord Chancellor, amounted to lOC These, of course, he meant, were upon ques tions. But, independent of this, the increase ot po jralation, and wealth, and enterprise in this country, had created a new kind of business, which formerly W aS never known. This consisted of motions and in structions in reg ar d to i ntr i cate commercial transac clens, the working of • the la r ge mines, interests in c on - T.~.-s r ems, such as theatrical estahliAiments—(A laugh). And he would also remark to his brethren of The Bar,, if they found fault with the delay which ex isted, that they sometimes contributed to it by the ex treme length of their arguments. When all these things were considered, he thought he had a right to say that the arrear of business was not great in pro portion to that which was done. It was said that the Noble and Learned Lord took large time to consider before he gave decisions ; and from that he would not shrink. He held it necessary to public justice that large time should be taken : and the manner in which his decisions were given would make them the' foundation of a system of Equity Lsw, by which the property of the People of England would here after be secured. He knew that every lawyer would agree with him when he said that the judgments of Lu-LI Eldon - would go down to posterity as a guide to future Judges, and a direction to future Counsel. —The whole argument of the Honourable and Learned Gentleman, whatever his motion was, was directed against the slowness of the Lord Chancellor. The only object to which inquiry could lead must consequently be the removal of Lord Eldon. He would ask the House if they could entertain the idea fora moment of goin g i nto suc h an i nqu i ry i n t h e month of June? Panegyric upon that Noble and Learned Lord would be from him presumptuous; but he would say, that he had held his great station for a number of years with great service to the Pub lic, that his learning was universally acknowledged, and that his integrity was unimpeached. Yet it was now attacked for the first time, and if the House went to the Conimittee, it would be for the tsial of the Lord Chancellor. For his`own part he sh6uld object to an inquiry, which he believed in his conscience could lead to no good. Before he sat down, he would read to the !louse what he believed ought to be the an swer of every honest man to the only charge which could be made against the character of Lord Eldon. During the reign of Louis XIV. there was a Chan cellor of France, against whom the only charge was dilatoriness in decisions. One day his son told him of these rumours, and he made kim the following an swer My child, when you have read what I have read, seen what I have seen, and heard what I have heard, you will feel that upon any subject of which you know much, there is mach that you do not know. Yon will then be sensible of the mischievous and ruinous consequences of the smallest error committed from want of reflection"—(Hear, hear). Mr. ABEItCROMBY said that he was about to state not his own opinion, but that which, he was con vinced, was the opinion of the great majority of the country as to the character of Lord Eldon. He was admitted to be a man with most extraordinary acute ness of understanding, and to possess the most sound and correct judgment. But his best friends would allow, apart from debate, that there was an unfortu nate hail mity of mind which intercepted the opera tion of tkose qualities to the detriment of his future fame, and tl the great loss and inconvenience of the Public. Tae Hon. and Learned Gentleman then contended Oat the present was a new era in the state of the Lourt of Chancery, which called fur the at tention of that House. The House of Lords were, about to restore the Lord Chancellor to his own Court, and then it would be necessary for that House to re consider the principle and operation of the Vice- Chancellor's Bill, and to remove it if desirable. The people of England had a right to the decision of the Lord Chancellor, and now they could not obtain it without first travelling through the trouble, delay, and expense of an inferior Court. He called on his Hon. and Learned Friends opposite to.shew him the time when an appeal was entered, when it was put .upon the Lord Chancellor's paper, when it was heard, and then when judgment was given. These were matters of dates, and upon this he would be content to rest the question—(Hear, hear). When these dates were produced he would take as a standard the quan tity of business dispatched by Sir W.Grant. Upon these grounds he thought inquiry was necessary, and the I louse would not do its duty if it refused to inquire. Mr. WETHERELL said, that though unconnected with Lord Eldon, and not feeling the slightest per sonal interest in the present question, he could not agree to going into a Committee on the data urged by his Hon. and Learned Friend. He had voted for the Vice-Chancellor's Bill, and would do so again, from a conviction of the utility of the office. He was not prepared to admit that appeals from the Rolls or Vice• Chancellor's Court could not be heard by the Lord Chancellor in less than two years; but even if the delay were as great as that, he would contend, that such a delay would not warrant the overturning of the whole mechanism of our Coarts of Equity.— The Honourable Member had certainly disclaimed everything like personal imputation upon the Lord Chancellor; he had said that he spoke de re, and not de persona; but if he condemned the thing which ex isted, did he not of necessity condemn the author that thing ? The Hon. Gentleman said, that he derived all his information, that was, his facts, from one office. He (Mr. Wetherell) had been concerned in more than one of the cases which the Hon. Member had cited. He knew the (ffcina from which the statements of the Hon. Gentleman had been supplied ; and he would say, that there were some of those cases cited, which, if they were meant to be connected with the personal conduct of the Lord Chancellor, were foul and slan-, derous falsehoods.. In the case of " Beer and Har wood," it was alleged that the Lord Chancellor had, directly or indirectly, given out a collusive and sun.' reptitious decree. He (Mr. Wetherell) denied thai charge, let it be brought forward in what manner it might. He would say to the man, whoever he was, that originated such a calumny, mentiyis impudextis time —(Laughter). He did not see how, because Baron Garrow was ill, and Baron Graham was old, and that there were delays in the Court of Exchequer, the Court of Chancery was to be vaccinated, if be might use the expression, by the delays in the former Court; or that they were therefore to go into an in quiry into the Court of Chancery on that account. He could mention a singular fact ; and that was, that there never had been but one of the present Lord Chancellor's decrees in Chancery reversed by appeal to the House of Lords daring a period of twenty-two years. He had often heard that an appeal from Lord Eldon in Chancery, to Lord Eldon in the House of jaords, was an appeal from Czsar to Czsar ; but there was Lord Redesdale, and others, to check him. He preferred dull truth and accuracy in judgment, to b r illiant and expeditious error. The Gentlemen op posite seemed to think that expedition was everything, • , - "et% never mind how legally inaccurate the decision was. There must be a dreadful pressure upon the moral nerves of any man who had by his sole and uncoil• trouled arbitriuns to hand over enormous masses of property from one man to another. No man had ever given more luminous judgments than Lord Eldon, nor such as were more likely to become guides and standards to those of future Judges. Mr. SC A RLETT was astonished at the patience of the House in hearing speeches of Chancery and Com mon Lawyers ; but he would advise the House to hear the opinions of any Member who had been a suitor in Chancery, and who had had a decree with costs given! in his favour. He had too much respect for the Lard Chancellor to praise him in that place; but this was a proposition to enquire into delays in Chancery, and the appellant jurisdiction of the House of Lord,, the existence of which was denied on the other side ; and I as they were at issue on this, the House ought to go into the inquiry to set the matter at rest. lie had thought that the Court of Chancery, from its very nature, was one of delay, and of complete repose, and therefore it was that his Honourable and Learned Friend opposite loved it. Some Gentlemen said, they would not agree to the appointment of this Com mittee, because its object was innovation. Now the fact was quite the contrary, the object of this motion was to prevent innovation ; and to stop any Bill in troduced with a view to make alterations, being passed hastily and without due consideration. He w ished not to be thought to flatter any man, but he must remind the House that this was not an attack upon the Lord Chancellor, but on the Court of Chancery. Upon this account he should vote for enquiry. Mr. BROUGHAM said, the House was now ar rived at the latter part of the second evening of this dry debate, and not one person had addressed the House except legal persons. He had hoped to have heard some other person, not an artist, on this sub ject. Ile should have been glad to have seen some one of the numerous victims of the kind protecting power of the Court of Chancery, if any one such was to be found within the walls of the House; but it appeared that such an one would not come to the House; he wished to have a Committee appointed, to which these unfortunate persons might and would come. But the motion was opposed by those who pretended to be the friends of the Chancellor, because it was said that this was an attack on his Lordship. They saw a personal attack upon the Judge in mere desire, which was expressed, to inquire into abuses as old at least as Dean Swift, who in " Gulliver's Tra vels" had said that the hero's father was ruined by gaining a Chancery suit with costs. He (Mr. Brougham) had the highest respect for Lord Eldon. In all his intercourse with that Noble and Learned Lord he had always experienced the greatest courtesy. The whole conduct of that Noble Lord had been such as to demand from him respect—(Hear, hear). — In saying this, lie spoke of Lord Eldon as a lawyer and a man—taking special care to draw a line be tween Lord Eldon as a man and as apoliticiax—and as some expression of the respect he owed to that Noble Lord, he must express his regret that he had not had better, more able, and more judicious friends; who, by refusing enquiry, would send that Nobl: Lord out with a character tainted and damaged as a Judge—Wear, hear). He contended, that inquiry was due to Lord Eldon ; but that inquiry could never be obtained but through the medium of that House, as no individual would presume to bring a 'charge against the Lord Chancellor of England— (Hear). He wished for the appointment of a Com mittee, who should have power to send for and exa mine persons, papers, and records, and it would be then discovered whether the Lord Chancellor was de serving of censure or applause. The Hon. Gentleman then proceeded to take a review of the facts which had come out in the course of the debate, and con tended, that a case had been made out, by which it appeared that a system of mal-administration existed in that Court, which operated as an evil upon the Peo ple of England. All those who knew most of the Court of Chancery—men who had practised as many years in the Court of Chancery as his Hon. Friend had passed months in• it—had declared the Court of Chancery to be a grievous evil, pressing most heavily on the People of Lngland. This was said by great men, who were now no more, as well as by those who were at present the leaders in that Court.— But if all these individuals now living did not say that his Honourable and Learned Friend, the Member for Lincoln, had understated his case, he would not ask Gentlemen for a single vote; but if this case was made out, he would call loudly on the House not to turn away those persons who were petitioners for re dress at the bar of the House without affording them inquiry. The Honourable Member then adverted to the case of Sir William Grant, and of his regretted re tirement. Sir William Grant was followed by a Gen tleman of whom he wished to speak in terms of the highest respect, who was an honourable ana excel lent man, and had been a most excellent advocate, far superior to Sir William Grant; but it somehow or other happened that he made but an indifferent Judge, and the consequence was, that all the tusiness of the Rolls fell off. Sir Thomas Plomer had been Vice-Chancellor previous to his being appointed Mas ter of the Rolls, and during the period he had been Vice-Chancellor, there had been but very little busi ness in the Vice-Chancellor's Court. But Sir Thothas Plomer was succeeded by Sir John Leach, and in less r than a year the business of the Vice-Chancellor's Court increased no less than 1,540 causes, and the business of the Rolls sunk to nothing; and as there was a power to appeal from the Vice-Chancellor to the Lord Chancellor, this had helped to increase the arrear of business in the Lord Chancellor's Court.— He must next advert to the appellant jurisdiction; and here he must observe, that much had been said on the subject of Scotch appeals, but not a word on Irish appeals, though they had been more numerous; and, strange to say, tbe appeals from the Noble Lord 'Chancellor had generally terminated in a reversal of the decree of, the Lord Chancellor of Ireland. From the Returns laid before the House, it appeared that in 10 years there hid been 100 Irish appeals, in 50 of which the Lord Chancellor of England, aided by Lord Redesdale and the other Lords, reversed the sentences of his brother Chancellor in Ireland. How it was that the Lord Chancellor of Ireland came to such decisions he could not tell. He could not say whether these decisions originated in haste, inad vertence, or in-ignorance, on the part of the Dish Chancellor ; but it could not be wondered that there were appeals from the Chancellor of Ireland to the more learned Chancellor of England, when fifty , crees.ont oLone hundred were Reversed i and bete lit—. Must say, that, although this uas an appial frog, } Lord Chancellor to Lord Chancellor, it was hot ail. . appeal from Philip to Philip; but it was an appeal - from Barbarian to Philip. This was one point which required to be inquired into, as it generally interfered with the business of the Lord Chancellor. The Iles nourable and Learned Gentleman then proceeded td comment on the course of. Appeals in the House of Lords, and concluded by observing, that there were `Any reasons fee suppm ting the motion of his [lda nourable Friend. " I support this motion," said t h Learned Gentleman, g• ou t o f respect f or t h e law--ssoug of tespect for the fair admission of justice, besides i • personal motives to which I shall not now advert—a- • L arm not called upon to cast blame judiciiilly or per 7". sonally ; but even though I were, and though I had . frankly and fully expressed my opinions, such is the • high character of the Noble Lord at the head of the Law, that I am sure, however his friends may have - felt, he would have acquitted me upon the score of duty, as I know, were I accused, he would have ac quitted me on the same grounds: I thank the House for the patience with which they have heard me ; and shall conclude by giving - My most cordial and hearty vote to the motion. —(Cries of Hear, and Question). The SOLICITOR-GENERAL could not suffer the observations which had been made by the Hone Member for Winchel ea, on the Master of the Rolls, to pass unnoticed. lie denied at once the justice of the observations made by his Hon. Friend on that distinguished Judge, who, up to the, period of his present severe indisposition had discharged the duties of his of f ice with the strictest attention and disci iirsi nations When the present Master of the Rolls came lb hiroffice, he found 500 cases in arrears since that period. about 1,000 cases had been added to the list ; and the whole of these he had terminated, with the exception of about 50. His Hon. Friend had dis claimed all intention of attacking the Lord Chancellor as an individual: yet the whole of his speech was an adroit attack on that eminent individual which could not be mistaken. The Member for Nottingham had also declared he had no personal feeling towaid the Chancellor, still lie had made a speech, which thu ough out was made up of personalities. Indeed the whole discussion had been personal. The Learned Gentle man concluded, by declaring himself strongly op posed to the motion. Mr. CANNING said, the House might be assured, after the length to which the debate had already gone, that it was not his intention to add more than a few minutes to it, nor should he have risen, but for having been alluded to very early in the discussion. With reference to the situation in which lie stood toa ards the Noble and Learned Lord who presided in the Court of Chancery, as one of his colleagues, he could not but state the impression which, as the only un learned person who had spoken on the subject, the discussion had produced on his mind. Tlioie who had heard the debate would at least derive one ad vaneege from it—pamely, the testimony which it bore to the talents and eloquence of the English bar; dry and revolting as were the details, he had never listened with greater attention to any debate, and never was more amply rewarded by the manner in which it had been discussed. The case which the House uas called upon to decide was the arrears in the appellant juris diction and the delays in the Court of Chancery. The subject was, therefore, npturally divided into t!iose two branches. As to the appellant jurisdiction, the Learned Gentleman who opened the debate in a speech of great force and brilliancy, had alluded to the part which he (Mr. Canning) had taken in 1813. It was perfectly true that he, as a humble individual, had opposed the erection of the Vice-Chancellor's Couit. He thought it not a good way to set the Lord Chancellor at liberty, to erect a new' Court, with 'an appeal to him. He had opposed it on the ground that any new ju risdiction which was not •vi ithout appeal would not answer to the fullest extent by setting the Lord Chan cellor at liberty : but if few appeals had been made, he must acknowledge, rill prophet as lie was (fit pro phetical the Hon. and Leal ned Geatleman had been pleased to desig nate the opinions which he, Mr. Can ning, had state d), that great good had beer, done, though he should undoubtedly still consider any ex periment of the same sort as liable to equal objec tions. But though it were true that inconveniences had arisen from the erection of the Vice-Chancellor's Court, it did not follow that the cessation of the cause would redress the evil ; for, as an Hon. Friend of his had illustrated it, the man olio, by a• fall from a window, should break his leg, we should not attempt to cure it by throwing him back again—(A laugh). The second argument by which he opposed the Vice. Chancellor's 13111 was, that the evil existed in the ju risdiction of the House of Lords, and it was, theta fore, in. that House that the remedy ought to be sought. So that the whole of the argument of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, by which he wishes to prove that he (Mr. Canning) was bound in his vote now by what he had expressed in 1813, fell to the ground, and formed imargumentum ad hcininens:which could . affect him; and in now opposing the motion he was strictly consistent with his votes and arguments arthe former period ; and on the ground of the ap peals, he was not bound to go into the C omm i ttee . — With respect to the other branch of inquiry —the de. lays in the Court of Chancery—he did o f state it as invidious in the Hon. and Learned 'Gellllernan (Mr. Williams), and certainly he could not with justice to the other Honourable and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Brougham) impute anything of the sort to him ; he did not believe that there had been any intention of studied unkindness with respect to the Noble Lord ; but this he must say, that from the whole course and current of the debate, from expressions used (which no doubt were used in the warmth of the moment, sae H e o x u t se ent .w w ou b l i d ch not the g y o d i i i t d w n a o s t m convincedant. to thatgo ti) be the inquiry without it being considered in tire eyes of the th the Public and of all mankind as an accusation against the Lord Chancellor. Certainly he did not impute to the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Brougham) any intention of making such accusation, and' he equally acquitted: the Hon. Member for Nottingham (Mr.- Demon) of it, though he fount! it more difficult otherwise to account for some of his expression's.— Though there was no intention of impeachingthe judg ment, the diligence, or the capacity, 'of that . emine.it person, yet, as he felt confident an inquiry would, in the eyes of some peisilns, be construed into a slain on his character, that consideration would restrain him (Mr. Canning) from giving a vote fog the Committee .•romi!ir••••" 1MM......1