Star. — London, England, 1821-12-05 00:00:00

' • \ - .......i. '=' • him to go far 'enough, as it only prayed his MAjesty to institute an inquiry into the state of Ireland when Parliament meets. But the other Petition prayed his Majesty to assemble Parliament forthwith, for the purpose of instituting an inquiry into those evils and distresses under which Ireland has so long laboured, and which . had given rise to enormities and atrocities which no man could contemplate without feelings of horror. He would therefore put it to the Meeting whether such a Petition should not be presented to es. in produeintthe present state..of things' in Ireland. Bet how was ?his scat things to be remedied ? Heaven.alone could tell. Some said by making men live on their estates--others .by taxing absentees:—, But they must first make the country fit for a hnman being to live in, before any of the libsentees even for the sake of their own properties, give an occasional residence among them. They must dis courage private distillation for the payment of their rents, and, by so doing, withhold the strong excite. meat which habits of smuggling and the intoxication of whiskey give to the commission of midnight out rage. They-must cultivate better their own native resources, and encourage domestic industilc Some thing, of course, must be done by the Legislature, besides making a barrack of the country. B ut from whom were they to expect that legislative assistance? Was it from such an Administration as the present ? Was it froM Ministers whose principles of Govern- Knent were bigotted and despotic ? No ; he confessed be had no hopes from such men. They had neither .*e.vrisdom nor the honesty for the task ; nor could any partial change in the Ii ish Administration work any good for that unfortunate country. What was the conduct of these men on a recent occasion?— They deluded their Sovereign, who intended to serve Ireland. The King was in fact shut out from all in formation of the real state of things, and the Mini stets deluded him by a mockery of idle parade and apparent grandeur, which covered over begg ar y and misery. Nothing could shew more the poverty of Ireland than the utter inability of the people, with all their good will, to contribute towards the intended Palace; nor could anything exhibit more strofigly the hollow character of the Irish placemen, than the fact that even they, with their hundreds of thousands each year out of the system—with the overgrown wealth of the Church, and the plunder of the place men, would only contribute a few thousands on such an occasion. The old remedy of coercion was again about to be applied in Ireland. He knew that out rage must be punished; but were there no evils to be redressed ? Talk not to the peasant of Catholic Eman cipation. What matters it to him, if starvation be his fate, which Church shall divide the spoil? Bat he called upon them to take c ire, that whatever re medy they now applied should go home to the pea sant, and inspire him with confidence and hope. Their whole system of Government in Ireland was too expensive; they paid too much for an influence that was bad, and nothing for an affection that would save them. They taxed the people too high for their means, and more than half of what was got was pocketed by the mode of collection. The people could not bear this system any longer—their industry had no fair play. A solemn inquiry into the state of Ireland must take place, or the country was undone. But that inquiry would be a mockery, unless they declared at the outset that they were prepared to make great sacrifices, and to begin them with what were called the privileged orders; they, with the whole twain of placemen and pensioners in Ireland, extracted too much from the public stock. This was the truth; he knew it was unpalatable; but it must be told. His stake was small in the country, he had suffered much from the present system, but he had happily survived much of its effects; he could not, however, but feel for his unhappy country. A Gr.. rLEIIAN—I beg leave to move that we ought not to hear this Gentleman any longer—(A laugh). Mr. DANIEL DONOVAN said he had just concluded his rem:tilts. The Earl of DARNLEY said, he was glad the Paper had been read, for though it contained much that wasirrelevant to the object of the present Meeting, and though many of the statements were exaggerated,'] yet he could not but confess that it also contained a great deal of truth. Mr. Wita.s read a series of Resolutions, and was proceeding to call the attention of the Meeting to a Pamphlet on the Population and Resources of Ire land, when he was called to order by Mr. C. WATSON, who observed, that the only ques tion for the consideration of the Meeting was the ex pediency of presenting a Petition to his Majesty, p aying him to convene the Parliament with as little delay as possible; but if their time were to be occu pied in hearing dissertations upon the best means of affording relief to Ireland, they might sit there till Parliament actually met on the 3d of January. The Earl of DARNLEY decided that the speaker WAS out of order. Mr. WILLS submitted to the decision of the Noble Chairman. He could not, however, help expressing a wish that an opportunity would be afforded to the English Public to ,express their opinions upon the existing ;tate of Ireland. He held in his hand a book which pointed oiti in the clearest manner the causes . of the disturbances at present prevailing in the sister country, and— • The Earl of bansmar was convinced that the worthy Gentleman entertained a most correct view of the case, and no doubt he would take an opportu nity of giving his opinion to the Public upon it ; and in the mean time, if he would be so good as to men tion the name of the book to which he alluded, bis Lordship pledged himself to study it before the next Meeting of Parliament. Mr. 1\ ILLS said the title of the book was 4 ' Obser vations on the Population and Resources of Ireland." Mr. CORRY read the following Petition, which he thought it would be advisable to present to his Ma jesty on the present occasion : " MOST Gascrots SIMALICN—We, your Majesty's ever loyal and dutiful subjects, the Noblemen, Gentlemen, Merchants, and others, natives of Ireland, resident in London and its vicinity, beg leave humbly to represent to your Majesty, the deplorable *ate to which that country is at present reduced; humanity shudders at the hare recital of such horrid and diabolical crimes. " When your Majesty so lately condescended graciously tovisit that Island, your Majesty's paternal heartfelt sensation of de light at the cordial, dutiful, and affectionate reception year Ma joey experienced from the warm-hearted sons sod daughters at Erin ; but, alas! great Sir, what sorrow will the paternal and anceptible heart of your Majesty new feel on node ee- Tainted with the dreadful scenes passing there at this inonents No tiw, divine or human, is respected, and neither life, pare" nor property arc secure or protected, but the must atrocious and *mulling murders are daily perpetrated with impunity. Most august Sire, we whose limes are hereunto subscribed, agonized wl:h this truly distressing mate of our native land, most humbly . implore your Majesty to take the same into your Royal coin deration, and give such orders on the meeting of Parliament, as in your Majesty's wisdom the nature and urgency of the case • • requires. And we shall ever pray, &c." The Earl of DARNLEY said the question was, first, whether any Petition should be presented to his Ma jtaity, and, secondly, what the nature of that Petition was tn be. The Petition just read did not appear to lay as possible." This Resolution being carried in the affirmative, thanks were voted to the Noble Chairman, and the Meeting separated. Link irealisgtan, of bill-sticking notoriety, was present dur ing the whole of the proceedings, and endeavoured once or twice to obtain a hearing, but underst anding from those around hiss, that he bad no right to address the Meeting, or else hopeless of bring attended to, he declined giving publicity to his opinions on the subject. his Majesty. Mr. SPRING RIM M. P. begged to offer a few words before the motion was put. He should not have obtruded himself upon the Meeting, were it not that he had promised to convey to them the opinions of his Right Hon. Friend the Member for Waterford (Sir John Newport), who was unable to attend per sonally on this occasion. He came forward with the less reluctance, as in delivering Sir John New port's opinions he was also stating his own. He did not mean to discuss the propriety of presenting the, proposed Petition, neither did he mean to enter into the still more difficult and delicate question of the distresses of Ireland. A time would shortly come when he and many of those around him would have an opportunity of discussing such subjects in their proper place. But he objected in lintine to entertain ing any Petition at all. He objected to the constitution of the Meeting itself. But even if the expediency oil such a Petition were .allowed, he should still have felt the delicate and difficult situation in which they , were placed : he should have dreaded the want of the necessary inf amation upon which to act. He should have feared the very great danger likely to Arise on the other side of the water from such a proceeding, whether the Meeting called for mili tary aid, or fee relief fee the sufferings of the People. Small and trifling indeed would be the advantage to be derived compared with the evil which such a pro ceeding was likely to produce. Could any man do,ibt that Parliament would be speedily called together fer the purpose of taking the disturbances in Ireland into consideration? He was not, any more than the Noble Chairman, in the habit of reposing entire un limited confidence in the present Administration; but he felt that they must he less than men, that they must be totally divested of all feelings of humanity,l who could look to the present state of that country, without taking every necessary step to inquire into and relieve its distresses. On these grounds it was, that he objected to. any Meeting being held on this subject. But how was this Meeting constituted? He ! appealed to the Gentlemen present for the fact. Ile' called upon them to pause before they established a precedent so injurious, so fatal to the interests of Ire land. That Meeting was called by an anonymous advertisement which appeared in the public papers. He (Mr. Rice) feeling an interest in the subject, wished to know by whom the Meeting was called? The Gentlemen who published the advertisement had kertainly given the Meeting a local habitation—he wished they had condescended to give it a name and designation also. He applied at that Tavern for the names of the Gentlemen who had called the Meeting, and was referred to the shop of a stationer in the next street ; he went there, and the names were refused.— The Hon. Gentleman went on to spew that this would establish a dangerous precedent, inasmuch as it would enable any number of persons to call a Meeting on Irish affairs (in the absence of the great Irish Land holders), and there to discuss and decide upon the most important matters. These were the opinions of Sir John Newport, and they were his opinions also. If any Gentleman wished to stimulate either the Irish Government or that of this country to any measures, let a regularly signed notice of a Meeting be given, and let the subject be fairly discussed. Constituted as that Meeting was, they could not call themselves the " Noblemen, Merchants, and Gentlemen, of Ire land." It was true they had the good fortune to have for their Chairman a Nobleman, whose name was sufficient to give dignity and character to any Meet ing ; but then his Lordship was, like himself mid many other Gentlemen present, only an adventitious guest. The Hon. Gentleman in conclusion said, that he had but lately returned from the county of Lime rick, where he had resided for the last two months, and be could assure the Meeting, that nothing could equal the misery: and distress to which the country was reduced. After a few words from Lord DARNLRY and Mr. Colonel Mosiscor proposed an Adjournment, for the purpose of giving further notice of a Meeting, when a fuller attendance might be expected. Mr. Ham senior, moved that the Meeting do adjourn sine die. Mr. WATSON thought the Meeting would not pro perly consult its own dignity, if-it adjourned without coming to some decision. The constitution of the Meeting had been arraigned, and its competence to die discussion of a measure affecting the interests of Ireland was called in question. They were a Meeting of Irish Gentlemen—that was their constitution, that was their right. It was a libel en the King, and on the Government of the country, to pretend to call its attention to the present state of Ireland. It would be better that the Irish Gentlemen should be told to go .back to their country, and there exert themselves to, check the progress of disorder, and to put an end to the outrages that were there prevailing. He was sorry I to see so many Irish Gentlemen there. That was the time of day when every man should be at his post; that was the hour of action, when every man in the ship should be in his station on the deck, and not slum-, bering in his hammock—( Cries of Hear, hear ! )—' Let the Gentlemen of Ireland be seen in their places, let them there call Meetings similar to this; let them repair to their estates, and there assemble their te ~nantry; let them tell them that they are deluded and mistaken—that they are drawing down destruction on their own heads—that not they alone are dis tressed, but that the whole Empire feels the pressure; that in this country too it is heavy and severe,.but that the people are bearing it with fortitude, like men, and look forward with hope and confidence for better days. From the mouths of their Landlords and Gentry they would believe this, and by their advice and exhortations they would be guided; but they will not by those understrapping agents who are now placed over them, and whom they have long looked upon as their most grinding oppressors. The best resolution for this Meeting to adopt appeared to him to be an expression of ahem firm and unanimous re liance on his Majesty and the Government, for the adoption of the best measures for amending the con- IMPORTANT AGRICULTURAL MEETING. .. • 'n dition of Ireland.--The question being then put on own country be too large: the question, in his ts:i • the motion of adjournment, it was negatived. resolved itself into a small focus. By LLing om ; Mt. W. lIEMIER tl ght that in all cases of extra- corn a duty equivalent to the Poor -rate; a r ordinary danger and difficulty, the wisdom of Parlia- charges, with which the English farme r ha , but he thought preceding iPe )1, el..- 4 County meet was the best adviser to which the Governmeot tend , and of which the forei g ner knew uctt of the country could have recourse, and therefore former would be protected. moved "'That in humble Petition be presented to his Mr. holrtaantfoo ; trr agreed with thePrec a Majesty, praying him to lay the present alarming con - to imp ditton of Ireland before Parliament, with as little de- the best for discussing the question. Lord EGREMONT thought it too comp, question to undergo calm and effectual discussion a Meeting of the County. He wished t o have so, thing definite and distinct proposed now. Mr. ELLS! AX, jun. advised another Periii na , House of Commons; and then read a series lotions censuring the Report of the Select Com - of the House of Commons on the Corn Lay congruous, its reasoning in some parts be ing b „ reedy opposed to that contained in other m h o- tit Report, as to leave the present race of farmers ve t t little hope of escape from irretrievable ru i n , su b Petitions, and in still greater numbers, be p r y to Parliament in the ensuing Session, setting fori dreadful and melancholy situation, and praying fa immediate relief. Monday, pursuant to advertisement, a number of the most affluent and respectable Farmers of the County of Sussex, assembled at Lewes, for the pur pose of taking into consideration the present de pressed state of Agriculture. The Earl of f:cittamowe took the Chair, at the request of the Meeting, and stated that, though he had considered the subject at tentively, yet he found himself unable to come to a decision on the Agricultural question. Mr. LAMBS (a Magistrate from the East of Susses) said, the distress in his neighbourhood was alarming : he spcke not merely of the condition of the occupiers of land, but also of the state of the Landlords and the Clergy, who severely felt the pressure of the times. The number of men out of employ in the Eastern district was very great, so much so, that in the Rape of Hastings only, no less than 1,000 persons were unemployed. Mr. HAYMAN') confirmed this statement. , Lord Eonestosx wishei to know the real situation of the poor in the neighbourhood of Lewes? Mr. &Luise, sen. stated that, in the Parish of Glynde, where he resided, the Poor-rates bad risen very materially during the last twenty or thirty years, although employment had been given to men who otherwise must have had parochial relief. He had paid for labour, during the last year, no less a sum than from £1,400 to £1,500, a great proportion of which had been useless to him. Mr. Hayman° said, that in Burwash the number of paupers had greatly increased, so much so, indeed that out of a population of 1,900. there were actuall y 4.00 (including the whole families) unemployed. Mr. LAMBE remarked, that the Poor-rates afforded but a very deceptive criterion by which to estimate the real amount of distress. In the East of Sussex, there prevailed a system of billeting the poor; that is, the farmers mutually bound themselves each to maintain a certain number of paupers, who were thus prevented from resorting to the parish for relief. Mr. Hircutna said, the poor were employed at Hailsham in the laborious and degrading employ ment of drawing gravel. Mr. INGRAM must say, that it was disgraceful to see paupers occupied in the way that had been de scribed ; as a further prcof of the feeling which pre vailed on the subject, he said they had received from the lower orders the degrading appellation of convicts. Mr. ELLMAN, jun. had prepared a series of Reso lutions, which he would either read then, or postpone till a County Meeting could be determined on. Lord EOREMONT thought a County Meeting would be of little utility, unless some one should be prepared with a specific proposition. His Lordship animad verted on the contradictory evidence presented to Par liament on the subject. In Yoikshise, where he had large estates, the Poor-rates were only seven-pence in the pound. The distress was not so severe as in Sus sex. His Lordship thought the present distress to have been caused by too hasty an attempt to alter the currency. He took shame to himself for having voted in Parliament in favour of the abolition of the Property Tag, since he was now persuaded that, on a modified scale, it would be the most salutary mea sure that could be adopted. Every man, however,' who mixed in public affairs, would often do things which he would afterwards be compelled to regret. It was said by many, that the Debt of she country was a great evil ; yet no one could say that it was a loss to the nation ; on the contrary, it was but the transfer of property from one class of the community to another. It was, in his opinion, a mine of wealth ; and he was persuaded much evil would result if a re duction of the Debt should take place. For himself, his Lordship said that he had not, nor would he ever have, one farthing in the Funds, and therefore, in what he stated, he could, of course, be influenced by no personal feeling. He must say, that he thought them a sort of bank in which all might take refuge; and that we should find ourselves much poorer with out them. He had, during a life of seventy years, witnessed many and various revolutions; and he must say, that any one who could bring himself now to speak confidently on the subject, must be of a very different frame of mind from his own. He thought, that before a County Meeting should .be decided on, the measure ought to receive a careful consideration. Mr. ELLIIAN, jun. thought the importation of fo reign corn caused the depression. In 1818, the ports were open, and no less than 600,000 quarters of fo reign wheat were imported, which thus met the early and abundant harvest of the following year. The supply for London was estimated at 16,000 quarters weekly, one-eighth of which would have been foreign corn. Now either 600,000 more quarters of English and Irish wheat would have been consumed, or some of the importation of foreign wheat must still remain unsold. lii June last, he knew that 50,000 quarters remained on hand, which the factors had orders to sell whenever it 'reached a specific price. The con sequknce was, that the London market, which it was well known had an astonishing influence on all others, had, till the last harvest, been much depressed. Lord EGREMONT, adverting to, att overflow of stock in the markets, said that it might be•caused either by too great a growth, or by 'the ppiierty of the far mer forcing him to send his corn.for sale. Mr. HITCIIINS was of opinion,'that the primary cause of the present distress was to be found in the resumption of cash payments, and the con,sequent diminution of the circulating medium, which bad the effect of checking speculation, since now the agricul; twist bad neither inclination nor means to.indulge in it. He believed that this year would not expire with out the ports being opened. If the growth of our The Resolutions pointed out several of the • gruities complained of, particularly in regard to importation of foreign grain. The spirit and deny of the whole ate embodied in the two lag li t , solutions, viz. " That this Meeting are of opinion that 401. per 4 na oa a wheat, 10s. per cwt. on meal, and the amount af duties n em 'lterated, are the lowest which can afford protectius to the k tish farmer; there being at least that difference between flu e " of production here, and the cost of production there, 44, with the expense of conveying it from abroad, and therefore," cording to the admission of the Report, at page 16, sky" only tains what they are fairly entitled to. " That it is clear, that although the rain in the fn's his must fall on the tenantry, still it is not len so, that u feu, merely the surplus left after allowing the tenant a fair mow" his capital and industry, it will soon reach the landlords," through them every class of society." After some pause, Lord EGRKMONT row, andd, serving, that as no one appeared disposed to sped upon this proposition, he would take leave to sugg tt what, in his opinion, ought to be done; he wa,s t able, he was ready to say, to form any judgment,t . so long a paper, merely from healing it once itt 4 and he presumed that the same inability must anal to others. Therefore, he proposed, that this p ig should be printed and published for general cis deration, before that or any other Meeting wascathl upon to decide as to the propriety of its adoption, Mr. ELLNIAN, ill& stated, that he had this lawl• ing received a communication from a Gentlest% who stated, that it was the intention of Gores m% early in the ensuing Session, to propose the shop. Lion of the present Corn Laws, in order cookies the imposition of a duty upon the import of kuips corn. This Gentleman was Mr. Webb Hall, Ito stated that he had received his intelligence lea Xt. Huskisson ; and here Mr. Ellman read an extort from the letter of Mr. Hall. The intention of nisters was perhaps of the same nature as that pro• posed by Lord Londonderry in the late Agricuitsral Committee, namely, to reduce the Wareing price to 70s. a quarter, and to impose a duty of 15s. en every quarter of foreign wheat, which should after. wards be imported. To this proposition, Lowe, the Committee did not attend, or at least nodetisiat was pronounced upon it. But with respect to tie Noble Chairman's recommendation of waiting Gaul the Spring before any measure was taken nod against the evil of opening the ports, he coils: by any means acquiesce in that recommeudnia; for such delay on the part of the Agriculturistsuall imply the desertion of their Parliamentary adezatec and especially of the County Members, who his strenously stood by them. Several Gentlemen spoke in favour of a Coll Meeting. It was then moved that it berecomanki to the several District Meetings to consider dab tress of Agricultuie, as well as the general stall the Country. Mr. BLACKMAN moved an Amendment, which* tained an allegation in the Report of the Agtioltri Committee, namely, " to consider of the jujus:kali injury cast upon all classes of the people by angel tied currency." After hearing of the cases aka mity which had been stated in the course of date! and particularly of Englishmen compelled,ficole distress, to carry barrows from morning till WO with bells about their necks, he could not help* pressing his extreme surprise that a greater Of had not been taken by the Gentlemen with this. Meeting originated, and by whom it to be conducted. He was surprised, for instance, no observation whatever had been made, mall any proposition submitted, with respect to these through whose conduct the country had been to its present melancholy ccndition—(Appieet Nor was it even noticed that, among all tlO and Commoners which this countty conuatat one was in attendance at a Meeting upon s of such importance, but the Noble Earl in the CM who, so much to his own honour, seemed by bhp» settee in due degree to sympathise in the x ants,w! evince so much solicitude for the interests do country men—( Loud applause ).—But the Gentkas from whom this Meeting emanated, seemed tail' altogether lost sight of the object which they okt to have kept in view, and not at all to have teak the end, or conceived the extent of the evil whichio, deplored, for they had not even adverted to ku!4 'where that evil was now operating with such ser / :', He was astonished to hear Mr. Ellman ascribe' our distress to the low price of wheat, whil!k,_, tirely overlooked the low price of meat. Ass7 l aware that bacon was selling at 3d. a Polos_ j , that the peasantry of Limerick were in open T'S against rent, tithes, and taxes? Did not the so; Gentleman feel th at the principle of that wall., the same as that to which the complaints d os Meeting referred? Yet the very serious distur. in Ireland hkai not even been mentioned by any ceding speaker who supported the views of M man. He agreed' with the Noble Ch a i r man, r o County Meeting would not be th proper the discussion of a case of this natu e re, uiless j tern and practices of the men who hadoeosi, La our distress were also brought under consttraLa The Meeting had heard a great deal abou t . thel; and low prices of grain, but lie had un&•II°P ;life P tiCet kraal Carrel sa tho r ice WV ) ! in didi it e , b TS Apini ft far na , fm'i git von tl tn,i other ey les t o tie to is ne' etas But " ter Moa ts or w i v e st liin we eated a l o t re iscessioa S 10 ; 0 6 1 [lave soam two or iedePe Ric* to de re ign 4 ies I¢ t em. m e mo Com* * good, aws, as is, the to Bing so it , u rea parts o f the _P T ippe , inE4ll