Star. — London, England, 1831-03-22 00:00:00

IM FEB 1 HOUSE OF LORDS. MARC!!L 21. Lord PLUNXETT took the trellis and his seat. Sir A. Grant, and others from the Conimons, brought up the Prohi. Lit ion and Mantln:nus Bill, or.ti also a private bill. The Duke of GR 1 FTON presented a petition from Suelk, in fa yr, r Lati SPrNVER rd,.l r. petition from Northumberland, in sup port r`' th t ' Parlienantery Reform Bill ; also a petition to the same' eft cr from Perth, Lord ELDON presented a petition from a pariah in Galway, for an sztensicti of the the:lye franchise. Lord KING presented petitions for Reform from Axminster, Dun. hemline, Newport Pagnel, Durst arton. and other parts of Scotland. Lord MONTAGUE presented a petition from Selkirk, against re turns in parliament. The Earl of ROSEBERRY presented 'a petition:in favour of the weresere. from Linlithgow and Queensferry. Furl DUDLEY presented .s petition to the same effect from Sedgley. bed GODER II presented a petition front Lincoln, for reform. T:e Duke of NORFOLK presented similar petitions from Cove of Waterferei, Glasgow, &c. Lot.' FARNHAM said as many of the petitions presented by the Noble Duke were from Ireland, he could not help expressing his sur prise, that whilst the bill for parliamentary reform for England was to be katl a second time that night, nothing had becn said as to the bill:which was to affect the representation of Ireland. He was, in com mon with other noble lords, totally ignorant of the principles of this bill ; he could assure his Majesty's Ministers that there were circum. stances connected with the policy of Ireland, which rendered a similar bill with the English one unsatiefaetory, and altogether inapplicable. He wished to know when the bill for Ireland was to be produced ? Earl GREY.—It seems to me that the nol,le lord adopts an irregular course of proceeding. The noble lord asks when a bill to originate in the other House of Parliament will be brought forward with respect to Ireland. It is impossible. consistent with the forms of this house, to give any answer. It is a bill which must originate in the other house, anti lam sure no time will be lost in bringing in the measure. Whether it may be objectionable, advantageous, or detrimental to Ireland will be :he subject of discussion when it comes before this house; but It is the first time I ever heard that a bill for the advantage of England cannot be discussed without reference to measures intended for Ireland or Scot. lard. It was not understood to be the principle upon which Reform was discussed by Mr. Pitt. In answer to the noble lord's question, I can say that the bill for Ireland is prepared, and will be brought forward at tae earliest opportunity. The LORD Cif ANCELLOR said, he had a great number of pe-1 titions to present. First, he should present petitions fron 30 corporate bodies in different parts of the United Kingdom. Those corporate bodies ferreted that they wished the measure for Reform in Parliament to i pass into a law, elthough it would interfere with and destroy interests long vested in their corporations. The Noble and Learned Lord ac cordingly presented thirty petitions from Stirling, Perth, Edinburgh, Kirkcudbright, and various other parts of Scotland. He then presented twenty-six others, making fifty-six, from corporate bodies. He had eighty or ninety others, some signed by 14,000 or 13,000 inhabitants-- but had selectee, 56 from corporate bodies, for the purpose of Illustrat ing the generous feeling of his Majesty's--lie would not call them porter classes, because they had raised themselves high by excellent conduct—hot more bumble classes. It was impossible to pay com pliments to Noble Lords who had stood forward so honourably to sacrifice their interests in boroughs, without giving similar applause to his fellow-countrymen, who had shewn equal disinterestedness in the relinquishment of their corporate privileges. The noble and learned lord said he would draw one morel from a remarkable fact. He called upon their lordships to consider how grievously those men had acted who endeavoured to stir up a feeling of discontent and disgust against the plan of his Majesty's mcerement. The great measure of Reform —(A laugh from three o r Lords.) The noble and learned lord paused a few seconds, and observed that he had often seen impatient members laugh, whereas; if they had waited but a short time the laugh would have been po-tponed sine die.—(A laugh.) He should say great had been the delusion under which those individuals had laboured to raise a feeling of hostility against the reform measure among the lower classes. The people bad been excited by seducers, the seducers bad resorted to extraordinary arts and plausible ar guments. It had been said—you, the lower classes, can get nothing by the measure—it is founded on property ; but the people naturally enough replied—this is the first time that any of your kidney have said any thing to the people about their interest, and we suspect ye---your motive is not charity. This was, however, not the first time the stratagem had been resorted to by those who bad bad de signs. An instance was to be found in the Holy Scriptures. Here the noble and learned lord cited the following passage from the New Tes tament :—" And Judas Iscariot answered and said, Why is not this' ointment sold for three hundred pieces of silver and given to the poor." —The sacred historian gave an interpretation of the motives of Judas, and added—" This he said, not that he cared foe the poor, but because he was a thief." The noble and learned lord then took his east. The Duke of WELLINGTON thought it would be better to defer the consideration of this question until it came regularly before the house. He wished the noble and learned lord had gone further, and teatc‘'.. that the measure was resisted because it would introduce ulterior r,..c.stions injurious to the Constitution. The LORD CHANCELLOR agreed with the noble duke, that it would be better to avoid premature discussion, but having presented so many petitions from the lower order of the people, he had been induced to do them justice in this statement. The Duke of WELLINGTON said the ulterior messures would be radical reform and universal suffrage. The LORD CHANCELLOR said, ulterior measures would not be the result of the measure then in Parliament. At a meeting of 33,000 persons in Edinburgh they signed the petition in favour of reform only, upon the belief that it would secure them proper representa tion in Parliament. Lord ELDON brought in a bill to explain the law on the sub ject of Scotch marriages. The twelve judges of England had de clared that English marriages could not be set aside in Scotland, and the Scotch judges had expressed a different opinion. It was necessary the law should be clear upon the question--The bill was read the first time. The Earl of HADDINGTON presented a petition for reform from Haddington, and one against it. The Earl of CARLISLE presented several petitions for reform. Earl GREY presented the Birmingham petition, signed by twenty. one thousand persona In favour of the reform bill. Also a petition to the same effect front Manchester, signed by twenty thousand persons. The noble earl assured the noble duke that the reform bill would pre vent ulterior measures. He had ever been opposed to annual parlia ments and universal suffrage. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE presented a petition from War rington, signed by one hundred and sixty thousand persona, in support of the reform bill. The noble marquis also presented two other peti tions, numerously signed, having the same object. • The Duke of SUSSEX also presented similar petitions from Saint Luke's, Chelsea; Holywell, Renfrew, and Dutufries • as did also Vis count Melbourne, from Glasgow ; and Lord Durliam, from various places in the county of Durham. BANKRUPT LAW REFORNI. On the order of the day being read for the recommitment of the bank rupt law reform bill, Lord ELDON at some length, but inaudible below the bar, expressed a hope that the motion would be postponed until the return of the Chief Baron (Lyndhurst) from the circuit. The LORD CHANCELLOR would not object to a short post ponement of the motion ; he was certain that his noble and learned friend (Lord Eldon) was above making the great commercial question, then under discussion, a handle for a party. (Hear.) He (the Lord cataiitenur) had orrittvu mu ale tatter Baron, to ascertain his sentiments on the subject, but he had not yet received his answer ; by to morrow he expected it, however , and then be should be able to say what day might with propriety be fixed for the re-commitment. After a few words from Lord ELLENBOROUGH aid Li ELDON, The LORD CHANCELLOR said, most probably the Monday. before Easter would be the day for the re-commitment of the bill. Adjourned at a quarter to seven o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Masten 21. The SPEAKER took the chair precisely at three o'clock, at which time there was a very full attendance of Members, and every seat was labelled. The gallery and all the avenues leading to it were ems steely crowded. It being the last day for receiving private bills, the house was occupied until near five o'clock with private business. COLCHESTER ELECTION. Sir ROBERT HERON reported from the Committee on this elec tion. that the return of 31r Spottiswood was null and void. On the motion of the Hon. Member, a new writ was ordered to be issued. GALWAY ELECTION. Mr. WARD brought up the report of the Committee on this elec tion, which declared the sitting member duly elected. 'kraut or rarviLzar4 Sir R. INGLIS said he bad to request the attention of the house to a subject which he was about to bring under their notice. It related to a newspaper which he had had put into his hands. It was a tameela don to him, however, in bringing the subject forward, that he was set one of the parties directly affected. He never had at any duo men to complain of any paragraphs affecting himself; but he should be as. worthy of a seat in that house if he had not, when such a paper was put into his hands, called attention to it. It was extremely im= when on the eve of a discussion like the one o f t h at n i g h t , t h at able members should not be labouring under the influence of threats.— He, therefore, requested the serious consideration of the house to the attacks that had been made on what tem called the unconstitutional conduct on the part of all thews who fooled the meows. Ms paper to which be referred was the Tilos. (Heat) He understood it was a respectable paper as repelled talent, but he could nqt think it respect.. able as regarded its motives. (Hear.) Other papers had been equally , violent, but be had chosen ember, as the Times was one oftboso "INF ranked first in point of circul- Coo. to select that. Foe his part, he was not in the habit of reading the Times—(hear, hear), but he was told the paragraph he complained of was one of a series that had been daily Issued since the Ist elblarch, &Imlay ma which the noble paymaster of the forces brought in Ma bill of ndorm. They bad regularly continued itskto the prompt day, .cad Iterevlowas lea to degrade the house, and bold it up to odium with** people. (Hair.) 'They were legislating with double odds with indithduale in the gallery against them. (Hear, hear, hear.) Re Avoid, themthre, as a member of that house, betray his duty to his comsat:peas, as would also every other member, If they allowed not one, but a large portion of its mem bers to be insulted in the way they had been by this paragraph. The hon. baronet then read extracts from the Times' leading article of. Mon. day, the 14th of March, the reading of which was received by consi derable chest ing in the house. He bad no wish to check fair discussion, he had no such object in view, but it could not be endured that para graphs like the one in question were to be published, day after day, with impunity. He would repeat, he did not stand up there to crush free discussion ; but it was very desirable that a breach of privilege, calculated to disturb freedom of debate, should be brought under atten tion. He believed the bat time that a similar motion to the one he was about to make, was made by Mr. Fox, against a paper then in exist ence, called the " Public Advertiser." He (Sir R. Inglis) did not consider himself affected by the charge, but he considered that by allowing such a paragraph to go forth to the world without the ex pressed opinion el the house upon it, the respect and sonfidence of the people would become forfeited. He should move, therefore, first that the paragraph in question he read by the Clerk of the House. The pa ragraph, which was as follows, was accordingly read : 1 . When, night after night, borough nominees rise to infest the pro. ceedings of the House of Commons with arguments to justify their own intrusion into it, and their continuance there, thus impudently maintain ing what the lawyers call an adverse possession,' in spite of judgment against them, we really feel Inclined to ask why the rightful owners of the house should be longer insulted by the presence of such unwelcome in mates? It is beyond question a pieceof the broadest and coolest effrontery in the world for these hired lacireys of public delinquents to stand up as advocates of the disgraceful service they have embarked in. Of two condi tions, these persons must be in one or other: they must either have bought the close borough seat which they fill, or they have sold themselves bodily to him who has the disposal of it. It Is Impossible to get into parliament for a close borough but on either of the above conditions. Yet, is there a single individual amongst them who has had the truth or honesty to tell the House of Commons, I have paid 5,0001. for this seat, the confirm once of which I am now defending;' or 'I have sold myself to the pa. tmn of the borough, for his permission to be one of his members ?" The Hon. MEMBER then resumed. He felt it unnecessary after what he had already said to add another word upon the subject. He should, therefore, move that the paragraph re.id was a fabe and scan dalous libel upon the House, tending to deter Illembers thereof from the I discharge of their duties therein, and tending to alienate from the house the respect and confidence of their fellow subjects. An Honourable MEMBER seconded the motion, and complained of an attack made by the press on himself. He did not speak unad. visedly, or without due deliberation on the subject, but he felt it was the bounden duty of that House to check that course of abuse and in vective, in which almost the unanimous press of the country had joined. Lord ALTIIORP rose merely to put it to the Hon. Member whether it were advisable on the eve dumb an important discussion as pressed then upon the house to propose such a resolution without giving pre vious notice to the house ? Sir IL INGLIS considered that it was not usual to postpone the con sideration on a question of privilege.—(Hear from the opposition.) Mr. CA LCRA FT did not believe that the paragraph in question could at all havr the tendency which the hon. member tor Oxford seemed to conceive. He thought there aas nothire so much calculated to lessen the confidence of the people in that House as any attempt on its part to infringe the liberty of the press. He did not believe that the paragraph in (potion was libellous, but even if it were considered so the Attorney-General was the proper person to take notice of it. Mr. BA RING agreed, but on different grounds, with the honourable member who had just sat down. He hoped the subject would be left as it was, that what had passed would operate as a notice, that while the liberty of discussing what passed in that ho us e with freedom might go on, yet that those discussions were to be conducted with a li t tl e more decency. Mr. PERCIVAL felt considerable difficulty at all times in ad. dressing the house, and be bad not intended doing so on the present occasion. He certainly could not by any means agree with the hon. gentleman who had just sat down, that the eubject,having been brought before the house, ought to be passed over. He had not long ago given his opinion upon the state of the press in this country, and it now being mooted, if the House of Commons got rid of it in the way proposed, the house would lobe its authority, and lose its character, by such a proceeding, more than by any :act of violence of which the house could be guilty.—l say (continued the honourable gentleman) the question having been brought before the house if we decline to proceed —it we decline to visit this gross breach of privilege as we ought to do —if we shrink from doing our duty on this occasion, we give an awes dancy to the press which it cannot obtain by any other means. (Cheers.) It may be a question whether at this dine the subject ought to have been brought forward; but it having been brought forward, I appre hend there is but one course to pursue, namely, to vote it a breach of privilege and to follow that up in the usual way. 1 w as not present when the honourable baronet brought forward his motion, and I do not know, therefore, whether he called the attention o f th e h ouse or not to the fa ct of this being's part of a keg-continued series of para graphs, which could only have been writteu for the purpose of pre venting hon. gentlemen from doing their duty, to prevent them from giving their votes against the reform bill, and for the purpose of li belling their characters if they did vote for that bill. The paragraph to which my friend has called the attention of the house was the climax of this series ; and it is impossible to doubt that .the writer meant thereby to deter men from doing their duty—to hold them up to scorn and reprobation if they didto represent them as infamous members for boroughs, who would not dare to again Ince their constituents if a general election took place—to render the whole discussion of the house of commons contemptible in the eyes of the country, and to promul gate a belief that that dismission was conducted by men who had no right to be there, or to vote in the affairs of the country, being only the slaves—the hired lacqueys of corrupt peers. ((bars.) This was the only intention with which it could have been written. I thank my hon. friend for having brought forward this motion ; for, having thus brought vir pri —you cannot suffer the press to be brought before the atten tion o the house after this long series of attack on the privileges and liberties of the house, you cannot pass over it in silence, without, in my opinion, a great dereliction of your duty to the country and con. stitution. Sr FRANCIS BURDETT rose and mid, I am not quite aware of the exact words that have been used, but I agree with the lion. Member who has just down, that the Press has with very great per severance, with very great integrity, and with very great abill:y advo cated the cause which is now at issue between the boroughmongers and the country. lam not the least afraid of any course that may be taken on this occasion. Any..course that may be taken will tend te bring to issue the opinion of the country upon the corrupt system which has long existed ; and I will trust to any Jury— to any tribunal—to any collection of Englishmen who have the slightest feeling, In a word, to say collection of men in England, except those whom I have now the honour of addressing within these walls—(hear, and a laugh,)—the whole subject with more than perfect confident* I declare that lam perfectly satisfied of the fate of this house, bad the fiat sot gone forth and as their character being libelled by an honest writer Ina public paper stating that fact. Why are they ashamed of it ? The comp tion of returning members to this bonne was as notorious as the arm at noon-day; and when we are forced to see limbers get up because the privileges of the House of Commons are violated forlootb--locasse the Press states the exact state of the thiag-1 should like to ask the honourable Dl ember who is so tender of those privileges, why be over. looked the vital and fundamental privileges of the country, that neither Peers, nor the Press, tar any man, however high, being allowed to make a traffic of the seats of that house, without its being considered one of the greatest breaches. Those who talked of the privileges of the home being violated by an honest writer asserting the truth, knew that there was a constant violation of their privileges by Peers and knaves trafficking in seats in;that house. Why did not these sensitive gentle men direct their attention to that constant notorious breach of their pri vileges, instead of the hypocrisy of profaning to support their privi leges by attacldag the pens of the many. To talk of the character of that home wide the repla was dilmions—why their diameter was gone long ago.—(Chswe sod bragiage Hs was satisfied that the times was now come when the hem @ad e l marking in besought wadi be pot an end to. Whiehmaresenes might he adoekied, be andiond that house wee seas ters tolussottnee &bake on the abbst that bad ban et. It was spinet reason to sums. that die hobs bona belt as and Judge. He himself bed been Mk oilseed as a llb of that bass, sod hai sabred what he asoldored its greatest pashinesou Ha sr mmteseed the dam who sub s sys tems as was at proem parsed woad have to be spoken of whh the utmost tenderaess ; but oboe deo year 1807, Aft Lord Casdoneagb and Mr. Pereeval wine betas& in thin seandalewly, tralleddag spasm and when they mad SW Ul ha. member for not big peso to vets In favour of the asassee 01811 % thLraWis bed t ains notice of this it b bey mum Pyle. Cheers.) lb speed .= velar he the Tinee ombely, bit the ought to bus dm aim/ le within,. (Chem) He amid boo* flatter based bey woad do so. but be thought that this was deed& ebbe. He was in sodded that It they bad whet the poem aniassoksk votes would bane no no sabot them Way Wslbded se the wild. In this idsw et she nos, it was a raateer ofjporleat indifiteses whiner sears the besenglones. !prs permed. He borsht they would baby be ete blieensetsi e.to adopt any proceedings against the writer of this paragraph at this pe riod of fermentation ; but if they did, he was quite sure that the da mage or compensation awarded for any thfringenient on tbsirwappossd virtue would be extremely small. Sit C. WETHERELL was surprised at the speech which the hon. member for Westminster had just delivered. hews.) The hon. baronet, who set himself up as a man of peat popularity, and the advocate of the most liberal measures. whose advocacy had gone so far as to induce him to proclaim himself in that house a maintainer of the doctrines of liberty and equality. Such was the man who had addressed the house in a speech more dictatorial in language, more dic tatorial in matter. and more dictatorial in prirciple, than any which he (Sir C. Wetherell) had ever heard since he became a member of that house. It surpassed in arrogance and dictatorship of tone all the speeches which he had ever heard, even by the hon. baronet himself. According to the hon. baronet's proposition, such members as repro. tented boroughs, such as he had the honour to represent, ought not to vote on this question, and thus, by one full sweep, sweep out 160 mem bers. To much a proposal he would never accede, and he hoped soother hon member would. Sir CHARLES FORBES said, if the hon. baronet, who had so properly brought the subject before the house, bad gone back to the Times of the 2d of March, he would find language not less deserving of punishment. In that paper it was mid, that if the borough members voted against reform, they would bring down on themselves the ven, geance of the people. He had brought down the paper in his pocket, thinking to bring it before the house, but was advised not to do so, as it would only bring the libel into notice. The paragraphs were the at tacks of cowardly assassins—they were anonymous libels, and if their authors had courage they would be assassins. He had heard them spoken of with the greatest indignation out of the house, and had never beard them defended till the hon. baronet had stood up in their defence. The muse was worthy of the defender, and the defender of the cause. He would do his duty, and take hi s stand against the revolutionary measure; and if it passed, he would never wish to enter a House of Commons so formed. (A laugh.) Lord ALTHORP.—Sir, it is impossible for me to deny that the paragraph brought under the notice of the house Is a breach of the privileges of this house. (Cheers.) But I think it is &different ques. don, in what manner we ought to treat this publication. Upon a question which interests the people of the country in the way and to the extent that this Reform question interests them, it is true that violent language—that unjustifiable language—is used by writers and advo. cotes on both sides the question— (Cheers front all aides)—but when the Honourable Baronet says no attacks have been made, except upon those against the measure I must deny the truth of that remark. Do not we who advocate the measure see ourselves daily called revolutionists ?—(Cheers.) Do we not see entwine •attacked for endeavouring to produce revolution ? Upon a question of this kind I must admit that the public press has used language that cannot be jus titled ; but I appeal to the prudence of the house, whether this is a case in which the privileges of the house should be indicated with any degree of severity when the public feeling Is so strongly excited. I have experience enough to know, that when questions of a breach of privi lege are brought forward, it is difficult to induce the house to look at it in a temperate manner. But if we are carried away by our feelings now, I ask the house, whether such proceedings will be likely to reflect credit or tlifficulty in point of form ; but if not inconsistent with the form of the house, I beg to move the previous question, instead of coming to a decision on the motion. On the amendment being put, Mr. CAMPBELL said they must all be aware, that in times of pub lic excitement like the present, newspapers contained paragraphs which strictly considered, were breaches of privilege. During the Queen's trial, and the debates on the Catholic question, almost all newspapers contained breaches of privileges ; but what would be the consequence if they were all prosecuted,? (Hear, hear.) The paragraph now complained of appeared a week ago, and no one could say that anything injurious had been the consequence. Mr. WYNN felt sorry he could not support the amendment of his noble friend. Whether it was necessary to have brought the subject before the house was a different question, but the paragraph having been brought under its consideration, he thought the house could not desert Its privileges. (Hear.) Considering the very important; nature of the question of reform. and the great excitement it produced, he was disposed to allow a great latitude of discussion ; but the paragraph in question was an instance of that despotic and arbitrary system of liberty we bad seen elsewhere. (Hear, hear.) The libel, had evidently in creased in number by the forbearsace of the house, and if the present libel was passed over, he did not see how they could punish any future libeller. (Hear.) He was aware that he must pay the penalty of giving this opinion, but he could not be deterred from the discharge of his duty. (Hear, hear.) Sir JAMES GRAHAM mid he had heard the speech of his right honourable friend and late colleague, with regret, but not with sur prise. (Hear.) He felt anxious that the house should give its sup port to the important measure proposed by ministers--(a laugh;) but, however ardent his desire on that point, there was one feeling pre dominant in his heart--that was, that the subject should be discussed la's manner that should not endanger the existence of any of the institutions of the country. (Hear, hear.) lie was sorry that at a moment when the public were waiting with breathless expectation their decision on the question of reform, that the honourable mean. her for Oxford University should have thought proper to delay_ the discussion by bringing forward a question of privllne.—(Hear, bear.)—Was the strong language used by writers on the question of reform all on one side ? Day after day, and Sunday after Sun. day, its supporters were reviled and threatened. He was frequently asked what would his constituents in Cockermouth say to his support of the measure ? He did not complain of this—he only felt it a stimulus to persevere in his duty. (Hear, beer.) Even that borne, an hon. baronet had said the Reform would pull the Crown off the King's head, and that language gave encouragement to writers on that side. If the language used on one side should be punished, the example must be followed on the other, and the public voice would be stilled. (Hear, hear.) They might as well close the gallery and shut out the publics' sneer but by such a proceeding they might put in peril the institutions of the country. The paragraph might be a breach of their privileges; but if it were, then the house were ponies and should not be judges. (Rear, blew.) The language used in the house on the question of Re form was quite unusual ; the necessity of nomination boroughs and of venal boroughs was contended for; end the use of such language in the house naturally induced a greater freedom of discussion out of doors. (Hear, bear.) A contest with the public press at this moment could not but be considered a dangerous experiment, and might lead to dig. mthances of the peace and even endanger the institution of the country. (Hear, hear.) Sir H. HARDINGE said, he bad expressed his opinion that the re form bill, if it passed, would pull the crown from the King's had ; but be was not on that secouut to be brought into comparison with the libeller in the paragraph before the house. (Hear, hear.) He was at present Member for a Borough ; but he had for nine years represented a large constituency, sod be felt himself as perfectly free to give an in dependent vote as he did then. (Hear ' hear.) He never would allow himself to be deterred by clamour out of doors from doing his duty ; nor should he be detested by any thing in that house from the fullest expression of his opinions. (Hear, hear.) Lord J. RUSSELL said his right bon. friend had never intended in any thing be said to abridge the liberty of speech in that House. He his hon. friend the member for the University of Oxford to re bcoeflieiectd that the persons he called on to decide the question of libel were the person libelled, and who after deciding that the publication was a libel wen then to award the punishment.— (Hear bear, hear.) The people had a peculiar dislike to such proceedings, tied tide useel , eilket woe to exalt the person so punished by the basso Is As teak ef martyrs. His hen. Mandl the member for Westminster bad =kW a =bisuswey rellsoft so tbit constitution of the bones. The d e :died thM the was a libel, and estuinitted blot be& Mod teliewg*; the essetopsente of which was that be was mamma de tobiegit dieWastminsteep.illear hear.) Unless lit ones 'factual Ifieu be *nibs the blase sh ould not become a Jed, in its own .area; multhat he the present ems they would act more wisely by pass *ever the h without further notice, as the notice already takes alit would be wieejsat foe waralag.—(Hear, hear.) Sir F. 1111.1111DITT said, borrower much he might regard the bon. baronet's dotimaides, that he would do his duty fearlessly without re. gad is pddis dismour, he shsuld do his duty, certainly, without rwrd to Oft elifineter, but with wet rape% for public ophsion.—(ll - ear, WA) The hen. baronet bed raid be bed se seeetheents. Sir. H. RAIDING add be aid M. ray be kilo assthsenti fie though the beams!is segenwited was Mie of those which the bill proposed to dkinnehlos, k hid as many inhabitants now as when the elective franddee hhe ssafand on it, or as it had at the time of the revoludom Fir F. BURDETT must say that the honourable baronet's not having a large body of ocestitusom naturally detracted from the =not' his opinion on the resent =Went. For himself he was t the measure of Reform, instead of pulling the cruwa Mot the ging's bead, would fix it more firmly, and make it sit ender en his brow.—( Hear, bear.) Sir R. INGLIS said be should consider it an abandonment of mg Amy not to persevere in hie motion. All admitted that is was a libel—and unless they were prepared to sham they must perform their duty. He is Oh knew ep hie Iket near es by a second. that the Attothey4diesd ANY te the priest sad radiates of the Timm newspaper -fa a Ma HUNT nee heidst she of thanks whim sestkeed Dose doe. If honourable palms§ of NEM put him down by cross tesedes their palms would be put - tioa nimigreater trial dun Akhildai that thsee was he judge in the had that would not dlerisegpiegit VW, was it amok aka he jury in the land wadi think elikedee P Bag weed in the piempetir. however cost the kmgaide, whe peek* huh (Cries it He, 20 Osman I) He was habfes hew entneher behind NH thee le wadi de dm Veen Weddle. Mem) He was esty amiss ist the hew shield pre ! .midi ssen de de Ashton to the km, end peeve thaneekes shoeseeksee d lto ebellt e ll ti re =1 16. 1 sentiekei odahotdd be beim die keels bin they eadd MIN to akl& 0 1 001IHRLL mid, lee pressing perseed by the issesande baronet was, to pronounce the paragraph a libel, and then to direct the Attorney-General to prosecute the publisher. Was that justice or liberality to send the writer to trial, with a sentence of coexists nation 'passed on hint? (Hear, hear.) 'the real question was, we( the pa rs . graph substantially fa/se ? Did any one deny that there were nomin ee , of pews in that house ? Lard Coke had slid the whole legitlature could not make a man a judge in his own calm, and should Mat hour be come judges in their own cause ? He should certainly oppose the hon. Sir R. PEEL said, as the question had been brought heron. the house they could not escape from the discussion, and be should fear. lessly do his duty. He considered it of the first importance thet the question should be dispassionately discussed, without reference to f ee s. lags of individuals ; and, before the house was called upon to vote fat any single resolution, that, in the first place, all theistic-leased the whole resolutions formed thereon ought to be read over to the house. Sir R. INGLIB said the whole secret had been read at last three hours. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL expressed his astonishment that the subject should have been pressed forward after having bar suffered to rest so long without being mentioned ; and he was still more surprised at the mode of proceeding called for by the honourable baronet to have the number of extracts from the newspapers teas over to the house. The reason of his surprise was, that the hoe. baronet must have been acquainted with the circumstances long enough before that might. The honourable baronet who had m a g, the motion bad spoken to him (the Attorney-Ehnen!) in pri er , about it on Tuesday last. (Hear, hear, hear, from the Ministerial benches.) And be considered it an unfair proceeding tha t h, I should now be called 'won to prosecute, he having been in this I manner brought to give:his opinion in private. The question at that time of the honourable baronet he (the Attorney-General) under. stood to be, whether or not what bad appeared in this paper ea, a breach of privilege : on that score he thought there could not be a question ; but that the articles were false he did rot think so. And he thought that so far front their preventing hon. members front votin g according to their wishes on the measure, that the very opposite effect would be the consequence. With regard to the measure itself. he (th e Attorney-General) was satisfied that trusting to the honour of the mem bers of that house, who must be convinced of the absolute necessity of the Reform proposed—that the measure must be carried by a very large majority.. (Hear, hear from the Ministerial benches; No, no, front the Opposition.) He bad not been in at the commencement, but he was truly surprised when he did enter the house to find them in brisk debate on this minor matter, after it had been suffered to sleep for ten days--(hear, bear)—and that it should have been brought forward to foil the most important question that had ever come under the conside. ration of that honourable house. (Hear, hear.) He therefore Consi dered that it would he much more proper and consistent with decency that the original question should at once be gone into. Sir C. WETHERELL said that the terms in which the Resolutions were copied from those of Mr. Fox were an 'authority to which be thought the Gentlemen opposite ought to yield a ready compliance. Sir ROBERT PEEL rose in explanation, and denied that this ques. don had been brought forward to prejudice the measure of his Majesty's government. The hon. baroret then recapitulated at length the pleas that he had previously urged, why all the articles and resolutions should be read over. He was much interrupted, and sat down amidst vodfe roes calls of " Question." Mr. SLANEY reprobated the bringing forward of this question on this night, after soaring it to sleep for ten days, he thought that would tend more effectually to bring the opposition into discredit. The hon. member concluded with expressing his anviction of the necessity of reform, and his admiration of the measure Sir R. INGLIS rose to amign his reasons deferring the quesdon till that night, but he could not btiheard amidst the ales of " %tea don, question." We understood him to blame the learned Attorney. General for having mentioned the private conversation, without having stated all that had transpired at the interview. After some confused conversation, strangers were ordered to with draw, and the gallery was cleared. Strangers were excluded for up wards of fire minutes; and of a sudden the outer doors were burst open, and the people rushed in like furits, in despite of all the endea vours of the messengers and door-keepers ; but however the mistake had occurred, it was not necessary to again clear the gallery, for the house did not divide on the question, but considerable confusion existed for some time. Sir. J. GILBNIET, whohad been in custody of the Sergeant at Arms, was ordered to he discharged on payment of the fees. Sir G. CLERK rose, and, as we understood, asked permission to present a petition against the Reform Bill ;—but amidst the noise,— (No, Do.)—he would consult the convenience of the house, and do so at some other period. Sir H. HARDINGR said, that as he understood that the bill to be read that night was a bill to reform the representation of England only, before the house was called upon to vote on that bill separately, the house should hays been made acquainted with the bill for reforming the representation of Ireland, and that bill should have at least been read a ant time. Lord JOHN RUSSELL, in explanation, said, that the Irish bill was prepared, but he had deemed it neon:omq to excite fresh discusake on that subject, as the general plan was comprehended in the English bin, which had already been ro fully diseumed in the house. hit H. H ARDINOE did not consider that reason conclusive, and said, that in a question of so much im tance it was desirable that the ' House should have been in possession of all the particulars of the measure relating to Ireland, before they were called upon to vote upon the other bill. REFORM DILL. The SPEAKER read the order of the day for the second reading of the bill for reforming the representation of England. Lord JOHN RUSSELL rose to move that the bill be now read a second time. Sir R. VIVIAN said, that in rising to give his opinion en this ma mamas question, he was desirous to remove any impression that might inlet in the public mind, by supposing that he was individually inter ested in any boroughs; he begged most distinctly to declare, that be had no connection whatever with any of the boroughs in the mum where bir property lay. But he considered that where the right was es acised by a few Ina corporation, that it would be more diScult for s member to obtain his return than when the right to vote would be vested la the bands of the many. With regard to his own conethants, be was by no means assured that they ware in favour of the manure for reform. ( Hear, bear.) He thought that the measure &bent to be introduced by the noble lord would be attended with much danger, and be could not vote for a measure of such a tendency. The maim which had been proposed by Lord Grey (then Mr. Grey) in inn, was web the ease as the present measure, and so was that which had pro- Timely been brought In by Mr. Pitt ; but be was convinced that his Ma. jetty's ministers of the present day hod s much more admits teak now to 6111110•11.1 T, and that they had chosen a most unfortunate Mee to king the metherre /award. Had a moderate Reform been premed, be neighs bore been =died a have glees his silent vote to such a maniam i withent haviegvisisted ids u =s =deadens ; but of the immenee am mesod by his he was convinced that it meant but revolutio l tra ll weeld p to fassioy all the imehodens of dee bad, sod be subversive of the vary beds of the eseedindae- Usk piss bed already been developed es having been selenlated no Mow the skald interest, and to treat with reek's= hand ow mat =I our ammo ; but however the public voles might be reload in favour of the neseinee, and whatever Mini be ndott snail upon himself by the est, be was determined to enpom h, not gamely on a genentl principle, but down to its dendis. Mir, hese, beer.) The hollog woe so smog, dna these vie wan ',pond to it had no other alternative but to B ose he being mad a second time. (Hear, hear, hese.)— in=of constitution bad never been productive of good to a country of thee tisseriptien ; the laws hod either been hies& to the peeps by the teases of an army, or by the King tusking based/ sew However However much the people bad been suited, wed =twit - stimilog the use that had been made of the Rises sans, he (Sir R. Vyvyan) we determined to oppose the ohmage la our sannths• tics; and he thought that the events which had taken plate in other countries might have been admonitory to his Majesty s radium t and if .they pressed their measure, and MU eats 1, he eanhl warn them to take we that they were not at a future period before the bar of that house and dealt with se others had been = l t In similar circumstance'. He would ask his Majesty's govioneoe if there were any foreign nqpadoes, oe'any other adeeamill, in their bringing formal then leans= es hoggerutnely at iii doe! There artainly had been some Impressioa hili at thi pubis Ili= in consequence d }rar distress ; but it was not the decimal= OM Duke of Wellagnie in another place that no Worm wm= nor yet the refuel d the late ransom to institute a pa my Inquiry, that hod waked up the public ezeiNelellat OW there had =lead the Political Vries al: mends ham dos Woe ; err hot die orreistkos is other piste• id the dhot I but It had hose deftly the conduct diet had ken goomosi * gevenumot gig W ben the emu et the pubgedisson The possum* bah ems in wi t l isi r id i = d reiraihmk ad , oilier etilhh they god of y wile old sow they bei brought • goviod Iltedout, t o whioh iv nos pet *Igo& Re would raid die Mains that they wen Wiwi ter id: seats an the Tirseetwy gumshoe to ibe rev tuna that day declared waned Itstosum....lle hid me sioroseadoe ea at dons ea the subject, and he was persuaded the pestle bad Me nisi expected= her the mos sure, that it was to remove all the& tnembho—sive work to the anew ployed,,end to =the them all months bad jar= would all fix the tithes to be wadi charge thi as the aura of al don pieraMeo. sonidiag of the beneldet oo gemmorally would nip be the arras et sousiii eenrpie. Be ou tmoded ihet el the starapthes Odle beeighe veal be oersted In 6 1 toots. A weedy yield be gothwith sought ht the bast. Witt' :Tscthe shoonaing siktionikto et fit, the Noble lard . p:s t• oinly-teld thorn diet sea he raid of outteoqueettp—( Hee,L ) If the than were Maid, wail the met ea be stacked aim ? "iiir national Nei and toes imposed, as ft wee she* said, bye owl° 0 1 , )