Star. — London, England, 1803-06-24 00:00:00

4 C Ilp . ch !):e 'he of he ted iod Y. 4 0 al aed :my eater °disc- t''fre 7... ts greo!er necerfity havin t , a large : Inentation of force be employed for ti e L.,.e of the c oniry, titan of a 1111 Cu fOr ofFenlice opc ; .;,ins abroad. enipteiiionably, nor means of de ,-.lice ought to he more ~nalc!,otis to the means of ...Fence in the hands of the enemy than our means of o:fenlive warfare, however important there might be, when a favourable opportunity of retorting to them prefented itielf. The quellion then came to be, what ss 3S the mode by which, w.th the leaft dilhcul- Aty, our free might be doubled, or even trebled, if loch an augmentation lhould be called fur by the circumfiances in which the country was placed. He was as ready as any of hi, Honourable Friends on the other tide, to admit that a force for general fer vice was, with the view of availing ourfelves of the openings, which, in the courfe of the war, were much better calculated for ofFenfiec operations than a force whole Cervices were limited to the defence of the coun try. He would not deny, the even with reference to the ohJe,rt cf defence, they were preferable. He admitted that troops under the command of officer So who in foreign countries had teen revere fervices, and had reaped the glories of their courage and their h• boors, and who themfel •es flad that ed in there glo ries, we: e by their experience and their Bill entitled to much more ci i :dente than troops who, with th fame bravery, never enjoyed Slit means olimprosir,g themfelves in the fchool of difficulty and danger.— Allowing all this in the fullell extent, he confetfed he did not fee how a great many general eoehines, net which fo much (keels had been laid, were at all appli cable to the fubjed before the Houle. When Gentle' men talked fo much of the value of regular troops at the prcfent moment, he fhould be glad to hear where they were to be procured. They feemed to argue as if we were to ballot not for the men, but for the experi ence, for the (kill, for the difcipline of vete' an folders. Ifahe militia were afttially ditbanded, and the fyflern of balloting were to be furpencled, would more dif cipline, more (kill, more experience be obtained?— Would she individuals brought into the ranks palls more of the charafter of regular troops ? As to the •great quelion before the Houfe then, there general doftrines led to a mere Motion. If, indeed, the me 'maces of imitation . could be fufpended, if Bonaparte would confent to delay his pre jeCt of attacking this country till we had time to form a large army forge astral fervice, andwould fuller this army to goabroad, aad after learning experience in the art of war, re turn in (silty to the defence of the count, y, this would be all very well ; and certainly he fhould not be at difkofed tdcontrovkrt the potation, that in all cafes regular troops. while they could be procured, were preferable to thole poffeffing inferior difcipline, and • more limited expel ience. As, however, the num ber of men neceffary for the exigencies of the pub tic fervice could net be obtained, a mealitre of the nature now before the Houle was rendered indifiren fibly neceffary. In judging of the merits of the 'mature, Gentlemen ought to bear in mind that is did not at all interfere with the future augmentation of the regular forces. If there is in the Bill nothing to preveat the recruiting of the army from the very " force now to be railed ; if this recruiting is even fanftioned by a pofitive claufe in the Isiah which, for Lis part, he thought highly expedient, he fubmitred to the Hotivhether tnis were not a better chance of procurin g very large augmentation to the at. my by individuals entitling into the regular army nut of the regiments now to be railed, than there would be by endeavouring to procure this augmentation by recruiting in the fink instance. In this way not only would the public be raved a very confiderable expence, hut indiviattals would be freed from mate rial inconvenience. Suppofing then that the number of men to be railed by the provifions of the Bill are aftually embodied, and that the recruiting fervice continues to go on as ufnal, he of whether any man doubted that 15 or ao,taco men could he found ready to enlift into the regular army, if loch a number as that was thought nee effary for undertak ing offenlive operations? After :he experience of', what had been the alacrity of the militia in volunteer ing their fervices, he was lure that this could not be confidered as an exaggerated anticipation. It was' to be confidered, that the militia had made their of- 1 fers of fervice under circumflances very different from thole under which individuals in the regiments now to be railed would be called on to offer them (elves for admiffion into the regular army. The officers of the militia, of cr all the exertions which they had made in !slinging their regiments to a (late of high comparative difeipline, had naturally Rrung objeations to their being mutilated by the entitling of 'aft numbers into the regular army. The fatty ion of the officers in the regiments now to be railed was totally different. Sn far were they from having any with that the men lhould not enter into the regul at army, that they would he inclined to encourage there offers of let vice, and look forward to a period when they themlelve, might have a command in a regular regiment. That baore the end of the year a number equal to that which he head already fitted would be found to volunteer their cervices, was therefore not a matter of conjeCture and experiment, but of almoht abfolute certainty. If filch was then the cafe, he put it to the confederation of the I lode, whether there could be any thing like a reafonable profpeet of fo Freat a body of troops being railed for the regular arm, by the moft :alive recruiting for that period.— He was fut-e that a great mak), ity of the Houfe would agree with him in thitikin;a that the thing was utierly impoffible. On this part of the iuhjeft he had only one doubt, and it was out of very confiderable im rorranet. It had not hitherto been mentioned, hut 1, i. lieceffu y to mention it now, accompanied by a feiv otrfervat ions. The okijeCtion was, that to permit recruiting from the regime: is now to be railed, would he levelly fiarverlive of their difcipline. He wa s willing to allow that this ovoid he the cafe. if the re iiitiog were allowed to be indifei iminate, if it were to h: permitted at al! times, and above all, if the fie git.ime ptaffice of el inqiing was endured. fly proper rega!atious, however, all the inc anvenienetcs witch w e l t made the grounds of objee'lion, might he re moved. The entitling might take place on particular e.s es rf matter ; on dick days. the officers might be •oiliorired to receive offers of kr% ice from a eel olio proportion of the men, and as in all probability three r four times mote than were wanted would otT. 7 t, it waroid remain with the officers to make choice of the individual. whole offers n.ight he accepted. What the particular Jays were 4111 MllOl the renr.r. , ;(.s fhould be made. it was not neceffary for the Officers aricsioully to dal - clots. A power might be granted to his aripoilit frillier whe - c7er there :weary oat ic.il ir , •e7cilly,by the pre. anis notice of a I a ri.ight. i y this means no fiffilier w old know when he was to quit his officer, and the dai:ger of want of dif,:iplioe would be avoided. If he 'a as at all right in there be was at all home out in the conclulions which he had endeavoured io ellablifh, the meaffire could not be denied to be one 1 whicb,while it made the molt effeCtual provition f , it the liffity of the country, held out the molt effeetual prof peCt of providing, with the greatell expedition, for the increale of the regular army. One of the principal reafons which induced him particularly to give his Corwin to the plan was, that it was diflinguilhed by the tittnoft finylicity. The regulations applicable to the miiitia, which the experience of forty years had proved to be highly ufeftil, were to be continued, and the only diflinetion betwixt the force now to be railed, and the ordinary militia of the country was,, that the force now to be ellablillied to be placed tinder re gular officers. For this alteration the citifies were ob vious and lifisfaeory. It was found that officers hay ingthe qualifications required by the militia laws, comil not be obtained; and that other confiderations made it highly delirable to have officers to difcipline this new force who had known a good deal of aettial fervice. As far as the fyllem of appointing officers was micet ned, there was no fair ground of objection to the Bill. Tie Right Hon. Gentleman next ad verted to the propored commutation of fervice by pay. ing a fine of aol. He was much difpofed to doubt die policy or the expediency of fuels a commutation. He thought that the piiniple of the militia fy item ought, in this a, in other inilances, to be ftriely ad. hexed to. He was, theref re, inclined to contend, that milers perffinal lervice was given, every indivi dual balloted for fhould be compelled to procure lubllitute. At all events, if the principle of commu tation was to be admitted, he could not agree to its being admitted on its prefent footing. The fine as now propofcd to be 1-vied would fall equally on ail ranks of the community.—Among thole orders of fo• ciety from whom our army was to be fopplied, the fine would operate as a compulfion of perfonal fer. vice. Among the higher orders of fociety, no fuels effed would be produced. Thofe unwilling to ferve, and to whom the-payment of the fine is a matter of no confider.aion, would, by offering a high bounty, procure a fubflitute, and avoid all the trouble and in convenience which the production of one might ob• tain. He was 'anxious either to put it out of the power of thole ballotted for to procure relief by the payment of a line, or, if that could not be effected, to impofe the fine in a proportion correfponding to the fitoation in life in which they are placed. Perfons of rank and ability, if they would not contribute their perfonal cervices, ought to be under the neceffity of employing their influence in procuring able fulifti tires; and, if forgetful of all that they owe to them laves and the country, they are relneant in grant ing their equitable (hare in fupport of the public ho nour iind dignity, then it was but fair that they ought to be made to contribute in that proportion in which they can be made to commute their cervices. In the Committee he trulted that this part of the fubjeet would undergo particular investigation, and he kill now thought it his duty to call the attention of the Houle to it by a few obfervations on the prefent oc cafion. The objee of the fine, if it was at all calcu lated to produce any advantage, was to force thole on whom it was levied to ufe all their exertions in procuring fubflitutes, and act in this inflance in the capacity of recruiting officers for the fervice. Unlefs it was impoled in fuch a way as to produce this ef fee, it would he totally ufelefs, and not ufelefs alone,) but highly inexpedient and dangerous. He had little more to add to the obfcrvations which he had taken the liberty of fubmitting to the Houk. He was willing to give a Right Hon. Friend of his (Mr., Windham) full credit for the purity of his intentions in oppofing the Bill. He allowed that in all that he laid tin the fisbjee he was animated by the moll earnelt &lire to promote the bell interefls of his country. He knew that no one could be more defirous of taking every Itep to refcue Europe from the calamities, the &Irate and the mifery with which fo great a pro portion of it was now oppreffed. He WAS fenfible that in no man's heart there burned a more ardent flame of attachment to the belt interells of mankind, t r was more dairous of making any exertions which in their confequences might free nations now groaning un der the molt galling tyranny. That his Right Hon. Friend would be the foretnoft in fupporttng thele great objees, lie cordially admitted ; and it was not from any difference of opinion relpeeing their im portance, that he was at all inclined to give the Bill his warmei fupport. Their opinions on the ffibjee were in imilon, but it was becaufe the Bill was cal culated better than any other mode which occurred to his mind to hold out a profpee that, when.; fa vourable opportunity prefented krill, a large difpofe able force may be molt fpeedily prepared. The Right Hon. Gentleman, after a few more obferva tion<, concluded by voting for the fecond reading of the Bill. _ ..; The.htc aaaaa v at War. in explanation fait, that be bad prepared a clank for elaffing the fines upon perlons declining perfonal fervice. Mr. WINDHAM. in an acute fpeech, impreffed on the Howe his objeflions to the Bill. He denied that he and thole with whom he had the honour of afting were not fully aware of thl importance of providing for the adequate defence and fecurity of the country. —Unlels as the primary objeft, this was attended to, all preparations for external annoyance were ridicu lout ; all hopes of dot rellorttion of the relent vio lated liberties of Europe ridiculous. If the danger of the co.intry WAS curb as had been repretented; it there was , n immeelate call for exertion in the country, it certainly was the duty of 41ini1cre to take effeanal steps for placing our Hate of defence on the moll re fpeflable trozing. Confining himfelf to the mereviews of the immediate defence of the country, he had to fay that the meafute was one which he not only con nected as totally inefficient for the purpore of effec tual eefence, but one which he could not contemplate wilingit feeling. r (anxiety approaching unto a feel ing of dread. He had on a former evening taken the liberty of fuggeflikg shat w.ne his plan and views he thought moil calculated to provide for the defence of the country, and he had fern no real , n why he Ihould I-chin:pint than after the (*perch of his Right Hon. Friend. He Aill reverted to the baneful influ ence %thick the adoption of tt e m:afure would have in preventing the incrc.ine of the tegular Mniv, and contended, that nothing but the adoption of the ma cure of the nature he had taken 11:e liberty of fug7er ting on a hunter evening, can protea c'ellruc- Con. As the founda.iita of all miter improv:itte.as, he was urgeitr for the abolition Fr' high tyittiri:s given to tl e du: tog the exiittmee of which it could not he too often repeated, that the enabOfh moot of a regular army was imp•elild-.. He adverted to a circumitanee, whiew he regretted to fay was too often altogether negleo.ed, he mean: the nature and quality of the armed force of the country. He did not think that the manner in which the (tree propof ed to be railed was inch as at all pr•tmifed a trate of efficient dilcipline. In (peaking of the cbaratrter of the otEcers, he %%if tce! it not to be thought that he meant to throw out any accufation against their mi litary (kill. Bur, he delved the liouCe to confa:r that a confider:at:lz proportion of them were men, who from age, from ill health, or from having re ceived wounds, had found it neccfrary to quit oatve fervice, and retire on half-pay. A much fmaller numbertrf men, well trained, and properly inured to a military life, would have been much more effec tually employed at fir perilous a moment. He &t -d.:red at the idea of this auxiliary force being confi• dered as the army of referve. If the People were' taught to give up the confidence witich they ought to repofe in thernfelvo,, and trait to loch groans of de fence, we were undone. Nothing but a general Ipit it of armed refinance could effcanally enable us to veldt invalion. The great mats of the population of the country, afting as light troops, might be defeated by a regular force of the enemy. Detest was, however, under fuck eircumnances, of little conlequence, while to the enemy i: malt ultimately prove dcflruffion. In illunration of this part of the fuhje.ft, the Right Hon. Gentleman particularly referred to the exer tions of the Royaliffs in La Vendee. After iliuffrat ing at confiderable length there topics, he Fat down by voting againft the fecond reading of the Bill. Mr. Pyre-, in explanation, laid, that the Right Hon. Gentleman who had 011 fat down feerned to have mifunderflood his argument. He limed to think that the plan only laid a foundation for ditlant fecurity, but was inlufficient for prefent defence.— On the contrary, he contended, that it was a more immediate meant of fccurity than any other that could be devifed. Lord CASTIARSAGH perfedly agreed with the fen. timents which had been delivered by a flight Hon. Gentleman oppolite to him ( Mr. Windham), when he looked at the hollile intentions of the enemy ; but when he looked at the means which they had in their power for the accompli(hment of filch intention, he confidered it as nothing but pufilladmity, he calla. tiered it, in fad, as a meannefs unworthy the charac ter of the country, to contemplate that power with any degree of apprelienfion. He could by no means give his affent to the opinion of the Right Hon. Gen tleman, that the poffeflion of our capital was but a fecondary objed ; he could not even for a moment entertain the idea that the enemy were capable of making any impreffion on our chores. The Right Hon. Gentleman had alluded to the inhabitants of La Vendee, and yet, he confeffed, he was utterly at a lots to account for the tranfition which he had made, or by what train of reafoning he could afterwards fop pore that the prefent force would be found inadequate to the porpofes for which it was defigned. This, he confeffed, appeared to him as giving a fort of colour ing to his arguments which could not be fupported by any regular courfe of reafoning. He trufted in the unanimity, the feelings, and the eftabliffied cool and determined hravery.of the country, not only that they would manfully defend their invaluable free con ftitution, which was the admiration and the envy of the world, but that they would refill any attempt to deprive them of that bleffing in fuch amanneras would utterly and completely emit, the invaders of our hap py land, andhold out Inch an example as woulddetet others in future ages from entertaining the mad idea of making any imprefrion on a country fo long pre eminently dillinguiflied for the bravery and freedomnf its inhabitants. He °Nettled in the ttrongeft manner to the great preference which the Right Hon.-Gen tleman wilbed to give to the regular army ;he thought that by too firiet an attention to that defcription of force, we would either go beyond the kill terms of our financial policy in times of peace, or that we would find ourfelves too weak at the outlet of a war. The Right Hon. Gentleman had delivered a jult eu logium on our militia force, as a contlitutional body; but then he had expreffed fomethinl like a defire that they Ihould he limited to 30,000 ; that was by no means adequate to the intreafed population of the country. Underthe prefent circumftances of thecoun try,and conlideringthat the amount of themilitia force we had in thee iflands !aft war was I to,ooo,he trufted the Houk would agree with him in laying that, by granting an addition of 50,000 to the 9t0,000 which had been already voted by Parliament, they would not go too far. It was the defire of many, that the militia fhould be diipnfahle to any place within the United Kingdom; that dcfideratum was accomplifh ed by the prefent Bill, as for as relpeded the force which it propoled to mile. Another difficulty, the officering of the militia, was frequently the object of ditentlion; that was in a great meafure removed by the provifions of the prefent Bill, as far as regarded the force railed by it ohe officers for that force might poffefs either of the two qualifications, a confiderible flake in the country, or that of haring ferved many years in the regular military fervice of the Crown. ac cording to the rank which they were to hold. The Right Hon. Gentleman, in his eagernefs to defend the fervice of the line, had teemed to have loft all talk for the fervice nr merits of any ether dais of our military force:. He fhould confider, however, the great number of the militia than had been dills:ended at the conclulion of our tre.uy of peace, and recoiled that they were officered by many perfons of tl-e greatelt retpcdability, both for charader and military talent, and that many of them would in fad be glad of the opportunity which the prefent meafure afforded them of returning the rank which they formerly held in his hiajefly's fervice, and no doubt they would be found eminently tileful in the defenceof their country, it ever there fhould he occafto3 to bring their talent into action; he had no doubt that they would be found as efficient as any body made up according to the Right Hon. Gentleman's prelcs iption for making fol. d.et s. It had been fuppofed that, unkfs the forces of the line polfelfed a monopoly of the recruiting market. they could not hope for any fuccefs in filling up their ranks. Experience had confiderably tended to weaken the force oh the Right Hon. Gentleman's reafoning ; for, at a time when we were raiGns Us: fupplemer tary, and we teCI Iltilt..!f,r our regular army than at a time v her they hail 'he matkct tho7:r Cf*d ni,l !• ever) . pint (If vier hr I).liLvcd :,1141 triacti .h. , t the lio•r:.!at,d ti.e Cemrtr. on4d ;4.gtee with him, Ia pc; the neceffity 01 immediately giviint. ciitEl to thi • ; •;.in, and tun EtT,:ill.rne would pot thep v.h:le an enemy had ope-d) pt:bdtelt•ti thre :t. J2.l;llit nrr Lotv.try. We .DRAM, In explanation, Iti3," if we cannot hive thflideat force completely rewelAr, it may be tif!:111 futtic,.-.::• force compl i• the p illii:irated by reference to La Vend, e." Sir Er %F. CO TS fimportecl the merif.re, art! ob. ferved that, when it was the intention t f the enemy to annihilate his Nlajt tty's Co.:eminent and robjii,. , ate tiie United Kint , dorn, he wa. contideut th it E:nlith men would nGtliettate to thew the First Coldttl ..nd the IVor:d what Eni;litlimen could atchiefe in Inch a gi ohm.; ca n ine. Dr. LAUsince, in a frech , f confiderab'te length lupporacd the politions of Pitt. Windham. He fail, the itte A st: it force if La Vend.:e was lit poweifttl, that he could state fi.rn the bell authority, that more Reptihlt,:ans h id been t!...:1r0y:...i by RoyaliiC there, t.. 111 by Al the cornhined armies. The pte'ent f n - ,:e h.t. c infidered wholly inadequate to the end in view. rite men were to be locked 1.1) i;i thc country, nailed like hale metal to the counter, witli,ut being able to at tdefolly for il:e public. With rtfpett to mcn grim; into regimen's of the line ;—il they tiid do, it would be only a proof that they liked not the fo vice they were in ; and, therefore, no great dependence could be placed on that force. The Learned Gentlit man concluded with reading a letter, partly wa itten and partly dilated, by the late Mr. liurke in his laff moments. The'etter hated," that he had taken the rp psrt unity of the firfl relaxation which a mind °pint Bed with various caufesof affliaion could find,to op efshis many fenfttions at thenewand flrange thingsesery day palling before his eyes in the political world. He had lived to fee new views, new plans, new prin ciples. new men, nay almol a new fpecies of mcn. If they who lived 4o years before had fliddenly re vifited this world how much would they have flood afinnifhed to fee an army of near 2f10,000 men, al moll totally unemployed in any great work of offence againft the enemy ? What if they law goo men of war almoft kept upon the fame limited and confined fyfiem ? What, if they raw thee Wands, containing all there troops, with all the means of annoyance, connected, before an inferior force, into a fen of garrifoned towns, without daring fcarcely to make ' a tingle filly againfk their barbarous befiegers! He fhould return to this great fubjed again, if he ever C. far recovered his health and ftrength, but of this : he then defpaired ; but the fulijed was, indeed : above al bodily confideratl:lls. He had not bunted after what was called popularity, generally to be purchafed by Itcrificing truth. Only on ono ine;fiim did he ever recoiled it as his object, and of thofe two ' he then feverely repented. But at the time he now , wrote, it mattered little to, him whetheithe breath of : flattery blew hot or co'd. 'I he in.ereft of the country called him to (peak freely ; a country dear to him ; from his caviled recolleCtion to his final exit from this tranfient nate." The CHAWCILLOR of the Exc it scuts a fad; Aar notwithllanding the very high authority of that name t which was fubfcribed to the letter jail now read by the Learned Gentleman, it was very loon afterwards proved, that from the fupplementary militia we de. 1 rived thole means of exertion by which this country derived, in India and elfewhere, thole advantages ' which had added fo much to its glory aid its inteeetts. He did not by any means intend to enter at length into the fubjeA of the various arguments ofed by the : Right Hon. Gentleman. but he wilhed the Houfe to i underhand dininalv the poii.t at Wile between hint and his Majelly's Siniflers. This was the number of men to be obtained by this means, without pro. judice to the recruiting the regular army. An Hob, Gentleman, who had spoken early in the debate s bad raid, that he would have been content with 30,600, in order not to impede the railing recruits for the re gular army ; but this was really a vague formife. for ' it had been inconteftibly lhesrn by his Right Hon. Ft iend, that the provers of the recruiting fervice was nearly as great during the 'all three months as ever it was at any former period. What, therefore, was the dednlion to be drawn from the fpeech of the Right Hon. Gentleman ? No other than this' that it called on Government to put out of their hands at 1 fuch a critical conjuncture as' this, the bell means 1 they had of providing for the defence and fecurity l of the country ; for it was a fad well eflablifited, that when the Miiitia was kept up at its largelt amount, there never was a period in which men could be railed jn greater numbers; and, on the con- ' trary, when 25,000 militia were sliftlandest in Ireland, it had not the effed of recruiting to any eon& ! derable degree the regular army ; which is a very fining proof that they do not interfere with each other. The Houfehad been advi fed by die Right Hon. Gentle man,and the Hon. Memberwholollowed him,torejed the meafure; and the reafonforthis extraordinary two- ceeding was, that there was no other means nffaving the country,but by refortirg to compolfot y means. He allured the Houfe, that no man in this country wee willing, or could be willing to go farther than he I would for its defence and protedion, but he could not agree that men, who were to be called on for the de fence of this country, (bould be forced to ferve in any f part of the !sonde globe, where their fetvices might I be required—ruch a proceeding, he thought, could not lid to produce what the Right.. Hon. Gentleman lays the pref . = metallic will moil afluredly produce, univerfal dircontent and averfion. There was at pre. • Tent in the kingdom a larger regular force than had ever been at the commencement of any se it ; the mss litia amounted to go,ooo men, to tilde lie propofed to add go,ooo ; betides theft there was a very large and molt relpeetable body of Yeomanry, which was . of feven or eight years ttaudibg, and to all theft was to be added the Volunteer Corps. When he ret:Se4 on all Olen: conflitutional means of defence, he cools not, without abhorrence, think of recurring to the unheard of mean.--the a!rominable pi ircipls in • fire Covet nntent—of recurring to the mealure of ti conferipti•in, and ther eby putting this free country co the fame lamentable footing with that which misgo verned by the execrable tyrant, whofe ambitions view and continually 'created agsteibons, had coin US to have occali.- oto recur to the means by . the prelim Bill. The Right Hog. Ceptlenditi d frit ,d pru L .- -~+