Star. — London, England, 1821-05-31 00:00:00

Lnrd Registrar of Scotland ? It was to be lid' l‘y die Keeper/of the Signet, without any salary or emo lument ; and, when the office of the Keeper of the Signet•should fall, - that of Lord ltq;ktiar vioa in .. tentletil, to be restored. CREDITORS OF R. C. BURTON, F. Mr. S. 11 ()RILEY rose to complain that the cre ditors of K. C. Bunco, Esq. had been kept out of their money by his being eiected Member 14 Bever ley. He was thea in prison, but the House, by its' privilege, ordered him to be liberated. He went abroad at the dissolution of Parliament, and his cre ditors wei e prevented ft om bringing all action against him ; besides which, they v.ere obliged to forego an action against the Warden of the Fleet Prison for releasing Mr. Burton by order of that House. The whole amount of their loss was at least £3,000. Ile wished fur a Committee of the whole House to take into consideration the propriety of addressing the Crown to grant a compen.azion to these creditors.— At the same time he intended to move a Resolution, that no person taken in execution should be eligible • to sit in that !louse. He then moved for a Corn. mittee if the whole House to grant a compensation to the credi:ens of It. C. Burton, Esq. Mr. W. WYNN saw no reason tor the interference of the (louse in this matter. Here was a person who had been six years in prison for debt,.thail liberated by privilege of Parlianteot. He was now in this country, and no longec a Member of Parliament; but he might now he arrested, because, by the Act, his privilege of Parliament .had ceased. He thought the House should not interfere with a question which belonged to the decision of the Courts of Law, and which did not immediately come before the House in the shape of a breach of privilege. He thought that, if the lion. Member wished the general law on the subject altered, he should move fin leave to bring in a Bill fur that purpose. Mr. S. WORTLEY replied. He still contended that the creditors, in a case like this, had no remedy - at law. Mr. Button was a man of very considerable ',laded property, and had ample means of paying these debts, if he chose. Ile was as little a prisoner as any man, except in Term time; for he had seen him in the Strand, and at Doncaster Races. He wit, ready to bring forward another measure upon this subject. Mr. A. BARING said, the knowledge of these things going out to the Public would create a scandal which they could not suffer longer to exist, because it must be considered a fraud upon creditors. They had formerly the instance of a man finding his way out of the Kings B.nach, and out of the king dom, through that House. If a man could not pay hit' debts, he thought they ought to bring in a Bill to declare his seat vacant, which they had already done in cases of bankruptcy. The motion was thea negatived without a division. LXCIIEQUER BILLS. Mr. M ABERLEY rose to submit the motion to the' House of which lie had given notice.—(From the noise which prevailed, in consequence of Members leaving the House, he was almost inaudible in the commencement.)—He stared, that in January, 1820, the Batik of Ireland received five per cent. on A:524,000, and the Bank of England the same in terest on the sum of I:2,000,000 Irish Treasury Bills. Both were temporary drafts to be discounted by the Bank, and the House should understand that these Bills were not brought to open market, but confined to the Banks of England and Ireland, whereas they should be objects of competition, like Exchequer Bills. The number of Bills issued from 1815 to the present time, would he seen by Returns laid upon the table: In 1815 1816 2,497,808 1317 5,304,000 . 1818 5,666,930 1819 4,950,000 1820 • 4,300,000 1821 2,524,000 Of which the Bank of England holds at present two millions, and the Bank of Ireland the above•men tioned sum of £524,000, at the rate of interest al ready mentioned. The lion. Gentleman then con trasted the rate of interest, so paid, with the interest on Exchequer Bills in the market: In 1815, iii the early part of the year, the interest on Exchequer Bills was 5%d. per day, which Per Cott. nude £5 6 5# 4n the latter part of 1815, 3*d. per day, - 418 0 In 1816, early - - 3*d. ditto 4 11 3* In 1816, late - 3d. ditto In 1817, early - - 2*d. ditto 5 6 0 In 1817, late 2d. ditto 3 010 The total loss for the last three years amounted to £400,000. On his side of the House; they had constantly' urged the principle of economy, and he hived not unneces sarily. He did not complain of the majorities that supported the Government in this expenditure; they acted boldly and manfully, but lie did complain of absentees—(!fear, hear)'--of those Gentlemen w:to staid away night after night from the !louse ; and he thought, when they went back to their constituents, they deserved the highest reprehension. He should conclude hy moving, " That it was expedient the same'rate of interest should be paid on Irish Trea sury Bills as on Exchequer Bills." The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER con tended, that it was impossible to borrow money in Ireland at the same rate as is England. It was ne cessary to borrow in Ireland, in order that the Eng lish money-market should not be too Much depressed. At a future time he would slew how the account be tween the two countries stood. Mr. Al ABERLEY replied. He complained that the Bank of England received the same rate of in terest for its loans as the Bank of Ireland, at a time when the London Merchants would have lent money to Government at a much less rate of line: est. This was, he contended, giving an undue preference. Ile did not think that the Bank of England would refuse, a this moment, to lend money at three per cent. so that the Right lion. Gentleman would have no oc casion to go into the money-market. lie should take the sense ut the House on the motion. Sir J. NEWPORT said, it was better that the ca pital should be augmented in the poorer country, and at no time was that more necessary in Ireland than at the present time. It was extremely difficult to pre cure Exchequer Bills in Ireland. The House then divided :—For the motion, 31— Against it, 6h. lONIAN ISLANDS. On the re-admis,ion of strangers to the Gallery, Mr. IIUME was on his legs, stating, that he Island for certain Memorials to be laid before the House previous to the discussion that would soon take place. He should move an humble Address to his Majesty for a copy of a Memorial signed by se veral of the• inhabitants of the Island of Zante, and transmitted by Signor Rossi, to the Agent for the lonian Islands ; also for a copy of another Memorial, presented by Signor Shirsdien ; and for an account of the number of persons arrested in the lonian Islands from April, 1819, to July, 1520. Mr. GOUi.111;1t N said, that the second Paper moved for by the Hon. Member was pot in his office. Mr. HUME wished the document be produced, in order that the conduct of the lonian Government might be known. Mr. NIA 'IRV ATT said, that this House could not be satisfied without the production of the Papers.— Every information should be given. Both motions were negatived without a division. Sir J. NEWPORT said, that much of what had taken place in the lonian Islands should be made known to the House. Mr. GOULBUILN was at all times ready to defend the conduct of Government relative to these Isands. Mr. HUME Moved for a copy of a Memorial from Santa Nlaura, relative to the insurrection in that. Island ; and an account of the number of persons put to death by Martial Law in that Island. Mr. GOULBURN moved an Amendment, for a copy or extracts of all Communications from Major- General Sir F. Adam, relative to the Insurrection in Santa Nlaura, in 1819.—The Amendment was car ried without a divison. GRAM POUND. Lord MILTON niii;;Cltiiaihe House should take into consideration the Lords Amendments on the Grampound Disfranchisement Bill. He should have preferred the mode in which the Bill had passed that House ; but, to secure the passing of the Bill, he should assent to the Amendments of the Lords. Mr. WYNN could have wished the Lords had sent down a separate Bill to that House, in order to dis pose of the franchises. He thought the situation of the county of York would be much worse with four Representatives than with.two ; as it •would induce candidates to stand who had no chance, merely to cause expense to the real candidates. Hence none hut men of overgrown fortunes, or mere adventuters, could come forward. He thought the experiment might be tried of amending the Lords' amendments, and divide the county of York into two counties, each of which should return two Members ; two to be re turned by the West Riding, and the other two by the North and East R.id;ngs. Mr. S. WORI'LEY thought the reasons of the List speaker conclusive, as to the principle of the Bill. Ile, in the present instance, spoke as a Member of Parliament generally, and not at Member for the County of York. He thought the House of Lords had placed that House in a very embarrassing situa tion. That House had demanded two Burgesses, and the Lords had determined they should have two Knights of the Shire. The way taken by the House of Lords was calculated to increase the influence of Peers, which was not less in the county of York than in other counties. The House was reduced to the nece,sity of agreeing to the Bill as it came from the' Lords. No complaint had ever been made by the county of York ; on the contrary, all whom he had heard on the subject, had deprecated the idea of four Members. He had great objections to the division of the County into two. Though there were 14,000 voters in the West Riding, yet they went different ways, and there was a strong competition between the landed and the manufacturing interests. A large proportion of the Members had come from the North and East Ridings. He should take the sense of the House as to not agreeing to the Lords' amendments. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY could not agree to what had fallen from the last speaker. The House of Lords had done no more than exercise their legislative power. His Hon. Friend had endeavoured to inspire into the House his own Yorkshire feelings, and had claimed a higher power for the House than he could admit. Such a power was not known to the Constitution. lie had always looked to the re medy that was most likely to be attained. lie bad also endeavoured to shew that the tranfer to a County was better than to create a new tight. The other House of Parliament hid given a pledge of their readiness to co-operate with that House in its object of Reform. The House had never contempiated the extinction of :he franchise if Grampound without a transfer to - some other place. The present measure was not to be regarded as irrevocable, and in a future Session a proposition might be entertained for the division of the County of' York into two. That plan, however, would require much deliberation. Parlia ment would separate with more credit by passing a less perfect measure in the present, than a much more perfect one in a future Session, as he thought the measure had been too long delayed. Lord J. RUSSELL said, it was open to the House to disagree with the Lords.,' Btu the Lords hail agreed to the principle of the Bill, and the only doubt was as to the application of that principle. Ile still ad hered to his opinion as to the pi opriety of giving the elective franchise to large towns, and should lose no opportunity of pressing such a pi inciple on the House., Mr. SMYTH said, that doubling the number of Members would be pi oductive of much inconvenience to the County of Yuc k, He thought the best mode would he in the first instance to agree to the Amend ments of the Lords, and then bring in a Bill to di vide the County. • Mr. WI LBEIiFORC E thought it would be a good plan to give one of the new Members to the West, and the other to the North and East Ridings of York shire. It was the Lest policy to agree to the Amend ment, lest the Biil should be endangered. Lord MILTON thought it would not he wise nor kind to the County of York, to divide it into two Coun ties. Ile concurred in what fell from the Noble Marquis (Londonderry); and though he did not think the proposed plan the best, he was disposed to concur in it. Mr. R. MARTIN tad formerly stated, that he thought the measure was one of much inju,tice to Grampound, and not likely to be attended with much benefit in any other quarter. _ _ The question was then put, and Mr. WORTLEY ap peared at tirst inclined to take the sense of the House, as to agreeing to the Amendments of the Lords. No division however took place, and several of the Amend ments were agreed to without opposition. The other Amendments were agreed to, and the, Bill again ordered to the Lords. Lord MILTON then gave notice that he would to morrow move for leave to bring in a Bill to regulate the mode of taking the Poll for the County of Yolk. THE CONSTITUTIONAL ASSOCIATION. . On the Order of the Day for receiving the Report', of the Committee of Supply, Mr. BROUGHAM said, he felt it his duty to call the attention of the House a second time to the poi ceedinms of an Association, calling itself " Constitu tional,' established without any law, and acting solely and entirely upon its own authority—(Near, hear). He had before expressed his surprise at the nature and proceedings of this Society, but that sur prise was much increased by what had since come to' his knowledge with respect to its conduct. He held in his hand the copy of a letter, a Circular, which had been not only distributed among all the Members of the Association, but which this Society, unknown to the Constitution,—not recognised by the law of the land,—had dared to send, to whom ?—To the whole of the Magistracy of England—(Hear, hear). Here, then, was this Bridge-street Committee, erecting itself into a great body of the State, taking upon itself all the authority of law, and issuing its mandate to the whole of the Magistracy of the kingdom—(Near). But what was the object of the important document so issued by this sagacious and absolute Committee ? It was first to instruct the Magistracy of England as to the nature of political libel; next it inclosed the copy of a pamphlet, written and published by the said Committee, containing their opinions, or in other word , , a digest of the law of libel, for the guidance and instruction of the Magistrates—(llear, hear). This might in itself be considered as a foolish and officious intermeddling with public justice, but it was followed by a most extraordinary Circular: This So ciety stated, and he did not mean to deny the fact in certain cases, that it was lawful for one or more per sons to prefer a Bill of Indictment, but when Bills of Indictment were preferred by large Bodies, having considerable funds at command, the question assumed' a different shape. It was true that many Societies, instituted for different purposes, possessed and exer cised the right of preferring Bills of Indictment in certain cases—but here was a Society, whose pro ceedings must excite considerable suspicion, who went to supersede altogether the office of the Attorney- General, by preferring Bills of Indictment ; and who, not satisfied with that, undertook to instruct the whole of the Magistracy of England in their slaty. What was this Committee about? Was their conduct legal, or was it not ? He would leave the House to judge from the Circular : it commenced thus--"J. B. Sharpe, Honorary Assistant Secretary to the Constitutional Association, 6, B:idge-street, Blackfriars." This was the' Circular Address to the Justices: " Sir, I am directed by the Committee"—by what Committee? by whom was that Committee appointed ? but it ap peared that the Magistrates were bound to know from what CoMmittee this instruction had emanated.-- In fact, the Committee was talked of in the same manner as Members in that House talked of the King, or of the Privy Council, or of any other power or body who had a right to issue Proclamations to the Public. The Circular went on to state, that " In pursuance of the fourth Resolution" (of which Reso lution, it was of course presumed that the Magis trates had received due notice), " we have instituted several prosecutions against persons who sell libellous publications ; some of those prosecutions have been abandoned upon the accused parties having expressed their contrition for the offence." In Gon's name to whom? Was it to J. B. Sharpe, the Assistant Hono rary Secretary, or was it to the whole of this precious Committee, who, upon a proper expression of contri tion, were graciously pleased to stay all further pro ceedings by entering a ;toll prosequi ?—(Hear, hear). " And upon their surrendering, upon oath, an ac count of their remaining stock of the libels or cari catures in question, and also upon their entering into an engagement not to embark in the sale of such matters in future"—(Hear, hear, hear). Now did any mortal ever hear of such an Association as this before ?—Did anybody ever hear of such a confe deracy and conspiracy, instituted to prosecute all and sundry who sold such publications, and to bring them to certain ruin (for it was certain ruin to grap ple with persons so supported) unless they made due submission to J. B. Sharpe and Co. of No. 6, Bridge street, Blackfriars, and unless they gave up upon oath the whole of those publications, of the crimi nality of which the said J. B.- Sharpe and the Com mittee were to be the sole judges ?—(Hear, hear). And now he should like to be informed, if there were any Members of that Association near him, upon what authority that oath was to be taken ? In this coun try, where a regular Government still appeared to exist, we had -the Attorney-General, who had not hitherto been found backward in instituting public prosecutions ; we had also the Secretary of State for the Home Ds:pavement, who had not been at all. backlard in enforcing the law, or in issuing Circa-, lars and Instructions to the Magistrates of the Coun try ; and though the consequences of these Circulars might have been severely felt, still there was not any man who would not.prefer them to the instructions of this self-constituted body. This being the case then, he desired to know upon what authority this self-constituted AssOciation took upon itself to issue Circulars to the Magistrates? They first associated, they next subscribed—they then promulgated their opinions, and lastly, they became prosecutors of all persons who published what they (the Committee) conceived to be a libel, unless such persons expressed their contrition to he knew not whom, and made oath as to certain facts, before he knew not what authority hear).—Their exposition of the law of libel had been served upon every shopkeeper, and those who relinquished any further sale, were exempted from their vengeance; and the Circular further stated, that in no case was prosecution commenced for a few days after the notice, in order to give time to the parties to express their contrition. Under these circumstances, it stated that should the party persevere, that fact might be urged in aggravation of Finishment. His cos, tempt of Mr. J.B.Sharpe and the Bridgc-street Com mittee might be pleaded in aggravation—(Hear, hear). Now, it might possitly happen, that Mr. J. 11 Sharpe and the Committee were mistaken in their interpre tation of the law of libel, and that the unfortunate trader was more innocent than themselves of violating the Laws and Constitution. The Circular proceeded to state, that, in furtherance of the ends of justice, a notorious offender, as they desaihed him,uj doubt,:astmw about to be tried at ganchester. It was, n in order to secure to him the benefit of a fair and im partial trial, that t ey had thus denounced him to the Magistracy of the County! He was induced t o bring this subject once mote before the House, ors seeing that forty Peers of the Realm had subsc ri bed their names, and exposed them to be made such un. moral) , use of against those who were prosecuted b y such- Aumnies. '1 tie proceeding was, in every re . speot • of the most objectionable character. It w as calculated to poison justice in its very source and foun tain, and to call up the angry passions in that very class from which Jurymen were chosen—f Hear, he ar ). lie should like to know what chance that poor rtiap could have, who lived and was to be' tried in a Leigh. bourhood where a Noble Lord, whose tenantrT were to be his Jurors, had subscribed to this Association? lie was disposed to feel this the more, as he h a d heard a person of high rank and great influence in one of the Counties observe, upon seeing the nam e of a Nobleman of the same County among the solo scribers, "-None of the tenants of that Nobleman ca n be fair Jurors upon such a trial." He had no hesita. tion in stating where the remedy for all this evil lay. It lay in the power of the Attorney-General to dis countenance all such prosecutions, by entering a kali prosapi. That should be done without waitiogfo r an aggravated case, for, by being followed up in an instances, it could appear invidious in none. He hoped that the House would pardon him for this trusion, as he was induced to it by a proceedin g which he considered more dangerous to the liberti es and Constitution of the country, than any other tha t had come to his knowledge of late years—Ohara Mr. SCA RLETT begged leave to say a few w or d s with respect to the illegality of this Association. The motives of the Gentlemen were probably such that one would not wish to treat them hardily, but their proceedings were contrary to the law of the land— (Hear, hear). In individual cases, the party a g . grieved was allowed to be the prosecutor by the law of England, but where the Public was the party, the prosecutor was the Government itself, and the At torney• General was the recognised agent of that Go vernment. It was probable that these Gentlemen did not mean to stigmatise the Attorney-Genoral, but the effect of their institution was to do so by implication. The cases which called for prosecution, could be bet ter judged of by the Government than by any set of men ; and he was certain that there was no person who considered the subject in a legal or constitutional point of view, but would :Agree io what his Honour able and Learned Friend had stated respecting.it. Mr. WARRE observed that the highest Law Au thorities in that House had expressed their opinions declaring, the Association illegal, and as there wasno Member in the House who defended it, cite Associa. turn must be taken to be illegal—Weao. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY questioned the propriety of any discussion as to what the Attorney- General ought or ought not to do, in the absence if the Attotney-General. Without entering into the legality or constitutionality of the Association him self, he could not but express his regret that, if it was of such a character, the mischief of the principle did not flash upon their minds before, when Missioncies were sent down to prosecute men, not for libel, but to death ; and great names appeared to the subscrip tions, which were as likely to warp the minds of the Jury as in the present instance—( Hear, hear.' front the Ministerial Beaches).—But all their sensibility was reserved for the crime of libel, and the name of Constitutional Society was an aggravation of the lawl which had called forth such a display of constitutional and legal learning as they had never favoured the House with upon any former occasion. Sir JOHN SEBRIGHT entered his protest as a Magistrate against the presumptuous, illegal, and unconstitutional proceeding adopted by that self constituted Society in their Address to the Magistracy of the country. Mr. BROUGHAM rose amidst loud cries of a Spoke ! spoke !" and a Chair ! chair !" At length he was permitted to proceed.—The inconsistency, be , observed, with which the Noble Lord had charged them, was wholly unfounded in fact, there being no semblance or analogy between the case which he had accused them of passing by, and the one of which they now complained. He thought he had guarded himself against that in the first instance, for he had stated at the outset that be did not deny the legality of one or more persons joining to prosecute in a par. ticular instance, but here was an institution established on a systematic plan of prosecution fatal to the Li berty of the Press. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY instanced the Society for the Suppression of Vice, to chew that the system was not unknown to the country. 311 . . SCARLETT considered that there was no analogy whatever between the cases. He thought the self-called Constitutional Association a gross and severe attack on his Majesty's Government—(Hear). The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said, that in the absence of his Learned Friend (the Attorney-Gene ral), he could not avoid making a few observations to the House, and he could not avoid also expressing his surprise that the Association should have been called illegal. He differed wholly from this opinion, and would take it upon himself to say that in that Society there was nothing illegal, or at all contrary to the spirit of the Constitution—(Loud and continvel cries of " Hear, hear,"from the Opposition Benches). If this were contrary to low, he should be glad to know who were the Judges of the law—whether that House, or the ordinary Judges of the land ? Now he would say that when the question of the legality of the Association had recently come before the Judges of the land—(Cries f " No, no," from Mr. Scartel4 and cheers film: the Opposition sede)—he (the Solici tor-General) asserted, that in consequence donap plication by the Counsel for an individual against whom a prosecution had been commenced, the So ciety was mentioned; but he (the Solicitor-Genera l ) had not heard from the Court any insinuation that the Society was contrary to the law of the country. Could the House think that if this Society had bet a contrary to law the Judges of the land would unt have objected to it? And were they (the House) to take it for granted, on assertions made from the other side that this Society was cont r a r y t o law, against which the. Court of Law had not hi n ted an objection? leqr, hear, hear, from the Opposition Benches).-- o Were they to believe th a t t he as s ociation of Pei wog s for itself a violation of that law? lie maintained that tae presecution of offences against the law, was such an Association was not illegal. Of the ponol of it he begged to be understood as nut giving any opinion; but he challenged Learned fricuos i