Star. — London, England, 1823-02-13 00:00:00

or explanation,* Or whatever it might be, had re 4ved itself into a personal defence of Lordlieres• f or il, rather than anything irtiustification. of the keep.. jog up of the office. The Right Hon. Gentleman had s o w n why Lord Beresford had been appointed -in preference to some others; but he bad not offered. oxen the shadow of a reason why the office itself had been kept up in oppo , ition to the recommendation of the Com mittee,.neither had he offered any reason why it had been offered to ei her. He himself had the highest respect for Lord Beresford, and he could also understand why the Duke Of Wellington should respect 'Nue who had been his companions in arms; but he remained to he informed why the office itself existed. All that had been said by the Right Hon. Gentleman was, that he found the office existing and vacant. But surely the hare 'part of existence was no proof of utility. The office hall been pointed out by the Com mittee of Military Inquiry for abolition, and so the •question was not respecting the. qualifications or 4 .-nerits of Lord Beresford, but that an office had :.-en continued which ought to have been abolished. Still, however, the proposal of his Honourable Friend Nlr. Home) was rather an extreme measure. There was something harsh as well as inconsistent in pro 'posing !hat the house should withhold all supplies 'till the were put in possession of information which had never been till that moment mentioned. Upon this grotlnd, as well as upon the hope—the certainty, that it would come better .its the regular Parlia mentary way, he would advise his .Hon.-Friend to withdraw his motion. lie lied no hesitation in say ing, indeed he was quite certain, that postponement is ould not operate in prejudging or injuring the ques tion. or preventing that full discussion of it which its importance required. Ile trusted that some delay, at least a delay of a day or two, would be agreed to by his Honourable Friend. Mr. II UNIE was sorry if he had taken the House unaware , ; but-he could not agree to the .postpone ment. Ihe country was led to believe that the va-, Laney, sshen it occurred, would not be filled up. He only asked for a delay of 48 hours in the granting' of the Supplies ; and, if this was not to be granted, then it would be better to leave the House altogether, and allow his Majesty's Ministers to settle matters as themselves saw est. General Sir R. C. FERGUSSON thought that, colt• siderin• the state of the country, private friendship and all things should give way to economy. He would vote for the Amendment of his Hon. Friend. The office was a useless one, and it had been so stated by the Commisioners. It was true, as had been stated, that the whole of the duty had, in the absence of the principal, been done by the Seiretary. Strangers were ordered to withdraw, but t before many of them had left the Gallery, Mr. IVA RRE rose to say, that he did not give an opinion upon the merits of the question; but, as to the manner, he liked the ordinary practiceof.motioaX by notice, as it was extremely inconvenieotfor Him Gentlemen nut to know what motions were to be dis cussed before they came.to the House. Mr. G. BENNET telt hirnself imperiouily called upon to reduce an useless office, considering the great embarrassment of the country. He would take every opportunity of opposing wasteful expenditure; and, Ulm Hon. Friend (Mr. Hume)..chose to • divide. the. House upon every item of the Sap Ply, he would. ac - quie ce in it.• As to the .practice of. giving notices,. he thought it of anything but use, as it was that• which enabled Ministers, on the great field days, to bring forward their sweeping majorities. It was by divesting the 4 ttefition from these field-days;that his Hon. Friend . had been able to operate so much eco nomy.. He hoped he would go on. Ms. BROUGHAM.—GOD forbid that he should object to this or any other measure of economy. AU that he wished to do was to disentangle the question. from that of the Supply, by which it would have every chance of being carried by A Majority. • Mr. C. HUTCHINSON,The office had been voted by the Committee to be useless. The work had been all done, by the Secretary, therefore they ought not to he,itate a moment in abolishing it, especially in the present 'important crisis. • The House ought to attend paiticularly to that pat t of his Majesty's Speech whieh'prinni s ed every. possible retrenchment. Mr. ABERUROMBY would not wish to pot off, the .discussuak of so important a measure as that which was proposed by his Honourable Friend, but he thought that .question should not. be confounded with the question of Supply. To stop the Supply was • oae of the most important privileges of -the House, but it was one to which they ought not to advert but in extreme cases; and if the motion of his Honourable Friend would at all tend to stop the •granting of the Supplies, then in his (Mr. Aber cromhy s) opinion, it ought to be delayed. He had no.wish to underrate the value of his Honourable Fsieud's proposition—far from it:. he wished that pro position to come before:the House in such a shape as that it could be discussed fully Andfreely ; and for this reason he would recommend to his Honourable Friend to detach it from the question of Supply. If he would do so, there was every chance that he would carry it by a large majority. If he would keee it on its own merits, it could not, recommended as it was by the Committee, fail of being carried. Sir F. BUILDETT thought himself bound, upon most occasions, to support the Member for Ahersign, who, in his zeal to save the public money, really Ile served support. Still he could not go along with him ie the.present case. It would be inconsistent in the House, on the one hand, to can upon his Majesty, in the present critical p tate of Europe; to support the honour and dignity of the nation, and, on. the other, to withhold the supplies necessary for this purpose.— The stopping of the supplies was, as it were, the ul timate power of the House of Commons, and should 'Hot be resorted to so long as there were any other 'means of redress. Thets:' mumissiosers deserved credit for their recommendation with regard to this office; and the lion. Gentleman deserved commendation for .his.g eA l t o sec., hat they had proposed carried into 'effect.. He (Sir F. Burdett) believed that the Honour able Uentlernais had grounds for what he had stated ; 'but then he ought to beware, that in the manner in 'which he pursued his obleet,-he did not go beyond what was warranted by prodence and discretion. It debsd a hope do e ' mrying this measure, he would _ ri s-k it 6 1)mi an issue of this description. Considering NIL " nide of Europe. the iel.uion in which this country -Wed, and the sacrifices-.winch it might be called upon. :to make, he hoped his Honouralde Friend would not. PM, it. He would do well to consider the suite in which he placed his friends, and on that account be induced to withdraw his Amendment. HUME...-. If the motion which he had pro posed would in any way interfere with the honour, of the country, or disturb the harmony ofoll parties, he would, for the sake of unanimity, withdraw it.— (hear, Hear.)—The Amendment was withdrawn accordingly, and the Hoase resolved itself into a Committee of Supply. Report to-morrow. Id ISCIILLANIMUS. • The House having resumed, a Return of the number of per. sons and their salaries, employed at the Port of London, and the Outports, in the Excise, Customs, and Preventive S ervice, was moved.—Ordered. Colonel DAVIES moved for certain Returns relative to the Preventive Service. Mr. Secretary PEEL bore testimony to the great efficiency the Preventive Service. Mr. G. BENNET adverted to the number of persons con fined in various Prisons and Houses of Correction under the charge of smuggling.—The Returns were ordered. Mr. lIUME gave notice of his intention to move, to-mor row, for an Account of the Sums expended in the building of Churches, and of the amount now remaining in the hands'of the Commissioners. On the motion of Mr. CURTEIS, there was ordered to be laid before the House a Retuni of the quantity of Hops exported from Great Britain to Ireland, from January, 1821, to Decem ber, 1822; together with a similar account of the quantity ex ported front Groat Britain to Foreign Countries, doting the sante period.—Adjourned at Half past Seven &Clock. LORD PORTSMOUTH'S CASE. EXAMINATION L'24l,Clt Tux KING'S COMMISSION. vitae DAT, WEDNESDAY, rum:ART 12. • The Jury, consisting of the following Gentlemen, assembled at Freemasons' Hall, at the usual hour : Lord John Fitzroy • Ealward Walpole lion. John Melville' John Morris Sir William Boughton Robert Farquhar Sir Thomas Baring Alexander Nowell Sir henry Floyd John-Miles George Byng G. S. Repton S. C. Whitbread M. Bruce W. P. Honeywoed J. T. Hope C. A. Tulk J. Jackson • G. &tikes H. Kendall W. Mellish Thomas Richard Read. John Soane Mr. William Pitman examined by Mr. TINDAL —ls a surgeon ; haspractised as such at Andover for thirty years; has professionally attended the family. of Lord Portsmouth for the whole of that time; there ' was at all times a singular peculiarity in the conduct of the Earl—on one occasion his Lordship refused to comply with the professional advice of witness; he addressed witness in harsh and unjustifiable lan guage.; this was about '25 years ago ; at otliefilimes his Lordship was particularly polite; on theOC'eSsion alluded to, applied to the late Dowager Lady.. PollSi mouth, complaining of his Lordship's refusal; re members the circumstance of Mr. Combe coiling `to reside in his Lordship's house, as his fa:mily tilYisi clan. During Mr. Combe's residence in'tbe filthily his Lordship behaved very ill to witness, who accord ingly applied to Mr: Combe. This . Gentleman re monstrated-with hi Lordship, and .poSsessing much iniluente over him, sucCeeded'in persuading him to compliance .with the advice of witness. Saw Lord Portsmouth for the last tiine about ten weeks ago ; his Lordshi p t.'hiris behaved very politely, and invited him to dinner saw again the next day, perceived' directly by his . countenatbe ' that his temper was snared; his Lordship then behaved very uncivilly— had not given any cause for such treatment. From the length of time witnesshas known his Lordship, and' recalling his conduct during the• whole of that time, did not consider that he had at-any period of a long course of years been of soorid mind.........i i, Cross-examined by Mr. Wfwasta.-:4t thi 'two I several times at which his Lordship behaved ill, and' shewed ill temper to the witness, he was labouring under the pain at one time of a fractured arm, and at the other from a severe contusion, occasioned by a fall from his horse—it is not uncommon for people suffering under pain to be soured in their temper, and f?ritable in their mind—at - other times, when not la• bouring under pain, has treated witness most civilly; conceives there is nothing unusual in a person's Ya nking in his temper at different times ; did not say Lord Portsmouth was uncivil merely because he told witness his, advice had not been serviceable. Witness had been.in his Lordship's' company in public—his conduct was then generally dignified and correct ; has always thought:Lord Portsmouth unsound in hit' mind,-ne.ver expre.ssed an opinion to th e contrary.— Remembers a conversation with Mr. Halls—it was about an affidavit made by. Mr. SkirroW, in the Court of Chancery ; did not then say his Lordship was of sound mind=cannot recollect having said otherwise than that he was of unsound mind. By Mr. G. BANICEs.—Was not examined in 1814. By another Jaror.—Had not been in the habit of attending persons of unsound mind professionally. By Mr. flottywoOD.—The conversation between witness and Mr. Halls he did not consider of such a nature as would justify a conclusion that he had ex pressed an opinion of his Lordship's sanity. Ann Cole, called by Mr. Poore .•-.IS the wife of William Cole, of Whitchurch ; has known Lord' Portsmouth thirty years; was out nutting one day; I saw his Lordship: did not speak to her, nor she to him ; his Lordship did not give her a farthing, more. or less ;.has seen him since; on one occasion his Lord ship asked her to feel his pulse; did so; told him he was very poorly, and wanted letting blood; he asked witness to bleed him; said she could not; he. then gave her Ss. and told her to go,' having first asked her to call en him the next day; did so the next day at one o'clock, and saw his Lordship at the 'gate Of a copse; felt his pulse again; he repeated his request for her to bleed him; refused; he gave her 2s. 6J. saw him another day; asked - her to fetch him a ser-- vain; she asked the name of the- sersant ; said he did not know ; witness replied then, that she did not know wha..to ga for ; his Lordship then -gave her a seven shilling piece; he never shewed bee anything, eicept-i inn a lancet; was in company with four other-women' one day, when' his Lordship came up and ma.le therc I put their hands in their peckers, and walk before him; his Lordship never attempted to take ady lit beriies with witness, not the- least in the worid— (witness was about seventy years of aged.. . ' Sarah Adonis, examined by Mr. Wersisans4...- , Resides at Tulton ; has' known Lord. Portsmouth twenty years; 'met his Lordship one day 'm abye road ; sometimes asked his Lordship how -Itewasi be gave her something, which . shei; has kept ever since ; has it about her now (produced it lauctt, in a red Morocco case); gave it her aiHnit thivieenyeara ago ; i the first time witness saw his Lordsh i p she was in company with Hannah Curtis; he asked her to his pulse, which she did, and told him he was very poorly; asked her to bleed him • she Said she tout& not ; he remarked t h at h e h a d b een hied • by .wonsim' in London ; witness refused to bleed his* beesiose it was on a Sunday morning ; his Lordship produced a lancet at the time he asked her to bleed him; had never seen Lord Portsmouth tilt then; met his Lord ship on the following Wednesday, about-a quarter of a mile from the place where they met first; this meeting was by the appointment of his. Lordship ;4 again felt his pulse, and told him he was better: he said no, he was worse, and very - giddy in his head; he then asked her what pockets she wOre,,whether corded or ribbed ? she said ribbed—he sgsrisot ask to see them —wanted her to bleed him, blitsbegidnet/ he strewed her his lancet; and requested her to get a young woman to meet him for the purpose of phle botomizing ; met his Lordship again; wanted . t 9 be bled—made her put-her hands in her pockets, bule ing them out, and walk before him ; did so till be told her to stop I then felkhis•pulse, and tcld him he Was better ; he was then very angry, and s*id'he was worse ; told her he hid met ante* girl es..he was riding through Whitcburch.f he thought she conld bleed him, and wished witnesstobri be to him, beat could not tell her where she lived ; he gave her a 7s. piece, and told her not to go nutting, or he should be angry.. Shortly after his Lordship went to London— on his return met him again—tied her arm in a hand kerchief, because she knew he would aslc her tobleed iiiru-,toid . him she had the rheumatisris. 7 4e said he was very sorry—made her put her hands in her . pockets, and walk before bim. Twenty years ago, the witness said, she conceived she was more attrac tive than at present. He never offered to take :the slightest liberties with her. He saw witnse and three other girls in the fields, and asked them rte feel hi., pulse, which they did. He never 'so muck as,offered to give them a kiss, which they all wondered at, and thought him a very simple man. . Mr. Justice BEST was then called and examined from the. Bench, by the CON/SION BERJEANT.—His Lordship deposed that-he. was related to Alit grentley family. After the death of the Dean of Exeter, his Lordship became a trustee to the estate of Lord Ports mouth ; before that time:the' learned - Witness said, he was applied to very frequently relating to Lord Ports mouth by Lord Grantley. Witness had much con versation upon the subject, and he recommended Mr. Coumbes, as a man of gentlemanly manners and as a medical mad, to take care of him. The witness was certainly of opinion that it was requisite that. some One should fake care of Lord Portsmouth. Witness remembers Lord Portsmouth coming to town on th,e death of Lady Portsmouth; His Lordship - came to town a feW weeks before his marriage with Miss 'Hanson. Witness never ceased to think that Lord Portsmoirth should have some persons about him.— A'itness had a conversation with Lord Grantley on the Friday before Lord Portsmouth was married. His Lordship was married - on a Monday..- - • • Does your Lordship remember having had . any conversation with - Mr. Hanson relative telsordPosits;' mouth's mind, 'a few days before the marriage- ,of Lord Portsmouth with Misteliansort?-4 saw Mr:' Henson, and had some conversation with him °rube- Filthy, I think, before Lord Portsmouth's marriage Serjeant PELL.—Did the conversation Which your Lordship had with Mr. Heaton relate to Lord Ports mouth ?—Justice Best.—Yes, it did.. 7 Serjeant PELL.,—Then object to its being received' as evidence, unless Lord Portsmouth Waipresent. ' Mr. TROWER said the question might be put whe ther Lo- I Portsmouth was acquainted with•that par ticular .onversation. If he was, the conversation would be admissible as evidence. Mr. Justice Best.—:Lord Portsmouth was certainly not acquainted with this conversation. The COMMON SERJEANT pressed the question as to the conversation. As his Learned Friend Mr. Wetherell' had' opened the case, one of the facts— namely, the marriageof Lord Portsmouth with Misr Hanson, on the 7th of March—was an important event, intimately connected with the case, tending to shew the imbecile state of.his Lordship's mind. He (the Common Serjeant) meant to charge all those who were actors in that transaction as having taken ad vantage of Lord Portsmouth's weakness. • ' • Serjeant PELt • said; he rested his objection upon the ordiniry principle of the English law, that a man was bound by no conversation at which he was not present, or did not subsequently assent to. ; Mr. MOWER, the Chief Commissioner 'interrupted the Learned Serjeant, and told him, that the Com missioners were of opinion that the question could not be put. • The examination of Mr. Justice Best proceeded. The COMMON §ENJEANT—.Were you informed of the intended marriage of Lord Portsmouth ? Mr. Justice Best—Certainly not. • The Learned JUDOS went on to state, that having been very intimate with the family of Lord Ports mouth, and consequently bad many opportunities of observing his Lordship's conduct, the result of that observation was, that he (Mr. Justice Best) -believed him to be utterly incapable of managing any important affairs. In point -of capacity, he was not.above the level of a boy of eight or nine years of age. " If he is treated civilly,' said the Learned Judge, « he re turns it like a boy : if he is treated unkindly, or in a manner that he conceives be unkind, he will sulk and cry like a boy.. During the whole period of my trust, it Was never thought necessary to apply to. him, Atiftept on one occasion, wbera applied to him togive his consent. to a loan of money. I thought it neces sary, i to a# ply te him, but he refused to lead the money'. At table, and in gentle' : interceerse, he' conducted hin•Aelf hitt a Gervilimair: • • • , Cross-examined by - Serjeant. Lest:fled - Judge said he did nofedrasow-Lord Portsmouth Wei* his raairiage Anith- LOrci-.GLansleY;l islet Witness had hefted t,hat..l4o,Portstneutlii %Tr's a man'' of weak mind,erol bevengly objected to the Mir- Tinge. Witeess su.ccceded to the.trUst an the - death of Dr. Gdritet, due of the; Trustees Order the deed 'whit% .was-made before .the marriage_w ith Lord : Granger's sister k :and which placed the management , 'of Lord Portsmouth's estate in.the heeds of Trustees.' The deed certainly 's hied imbecility .-.64.• th e part` of Lord Portsniouth. Th e deed, related t o . aiitters of the highest importutee • to his Lordship. His Lord ship executed it, certainty, The family, no doubt,' considered the execution of it as a,wiseaneasnrei but:. hal he been applied to on the occasion, he should .se cm - ridetetl it himself as a prudent theinatte; yet he doubted the . prtSpriety of Lord Portunonth boing a party to The deed ) , and he- would. Rot• have executed it. Lord .Portsrnouth appeareirlit av*.va . , sense of religion; but the learned •witness bad never cpfestioned him upon it. Q. On the occasion of the Queen's trial did Lord Portitnouth attend as a Peer? Mr. Justice liter—He sat in the House of Lords, ,and answered to his name during the. trial; but I was not resent during the whole time. Mr. &leant Pet.ti:—.lDoes your Lordship renlern bet that when the Lord Chancellor came to Lord. Portsmouth for his vote, there was a general silence or sort of pause throughout the House, and some persons said, " Give him a little time—give him little timer Mr. Justice Brer.—l do not remember that cir cumstance, or that I was present.• The Learned Judge- continued-irises evidence in chief, that he did . . not know. who took Lord Portsmouth's proxy. On one occasion of an important nature, and one occa sion only, he • considered Lord Portsmouth to have' spoken•rationally. :His Lordship asked the witness why he had ceased. to be a trustee ? The witness as signed as a reason, his disapprobation of the conduct of Mr: Hanson. , —(The learned witness -wished to avoid stating the reason he assigned to Lord Ports mouth for withdrawing from the trust, as the state ment might.he offensive to a particular party ; but Mr. Trower declared that it was necessary the reason 'Should be stated.}-Lord Portsmouth replied, I thought so; . and asked the witness whethert- if. Mrs Hanson. went out, he (Mr. Justiceerst). wotild-tia willing to .return ? ‘Vitness expressed hie-readiness t*sokee the family. lie was of opinion -that - Lord Portsmouth had not sitificient intellect for any impoptaut affairs.-- ' Heshad not mind sufficient to . conduct his ok(4 do mestic afFairs, his property' would have b , ...en endan gered if it • were entrusted into his qwn hands. He was extremely nervous, and easily frighted out ()fatly thing. His memory is retentive as to trifling facts, whatever he understands he can remember, but he :cannot understand matters of. importance. The Learned Judge . repeated the opinion which he had given before of the state of Lord Portsmouth's' in rtellect, in answers .to-questions from the Gentlemen of the Jury t Charles Tee was then called and examined by Mr. PEpys.—Witness is a servant in Lord Portsmouth's family. Had entered it in 1890; he first entered a a valet, and afterwards as butler.. • The house affairs were always managed by Lady Portsmouth. His Lordship was !lever allowed to meddle with those affairs,- but was allowed money. The witness was going on to describe the conduct of his Lordship in 'purchasing lancets. when Mr. Serjeant PELt. interposed, and said_ that as he was desircitis of shortening the proceedings as much as possible,. he would admit every fact which he con sidered as having been proved, and would not give the trouble of allowing a multitude of witnesses to speak to the same species of facts. The CHIEF COMMISSIONER said, that until the cir- Fen . **tante* were stated, it was impossible to form spy opihion as to whether the testimony was or was ritOt material: The case was not one between party and partr, and must 'go on in the same Manner in *Which it has already appeared. • WitneikcOntinued.—When Lord Poristhouth was in a passion, fie wonld strike the witness, who Would resist, -14 lartld , of . His Lordship. Wou I 'iielieometrines tall;cloWn immediately. Witness slept in lifkLiairlihip's dressing-r Oona, by the directions of the like' Lady .Portsmouth. ".. • • John Baueston, examined . by Mr. 13ftonotrANI.— Witness had been seventeen years in the. service of Lord Portimonth, and had left his service thirteen years; and had known his - Lordship for thirty 'years. A coachman, named .Geriigt l 7h ad broken : his leg, and was lying on his. bed. • Witness was . .attending.,him. Lord Portsmouth came into the room, and toldtteorge to get up and go to work.. George said he could not Oet up. Lord- Portsmouth told him he sluitad : ecrge repeated he could.not. His Lordship, then threw himself across the leg's of George, and witness heard the bone crack. George cried out, and wit ness told his Lordship that he had broken George's leg again. His - Lordship replied, that he did not. care for . that. Witness with great difficulty dragged his Lordship from off the hod, and can ied him out, of the room, and told him that 'he had ruined die Man. His Lordship replied, " I do not care for that." Witness, at the request of his coachman, gave him a broom-handle to defend himself. On obi occasion, his Lordship stood at the porch of the church, and, in a -great passion told the witness drust he was a d—d rascal, and• should not enter. His. Lordship gave .loud " Items" in the church, and pied -to snake the gitlrlaugh. • The Bea Mr. McCarthy, who had bleed** _Bettor of Whitchurch, was then examined. Halus4Veielte.l Lord Portsmoutlrup to the time of the late *Lady Portsmouth's death. Witness said that he was of a very imbecile mind. On three occasions, at funerals, where the witness had officiated, Lord Portsmouth had appeared as a mourner amongst persons who were far'below his rank. He appeared with a black cloak over his clothes, Which were not black: He came into the'church-yard with the other mourners. He alnays conducted himself with propriety on those occasions._ Cross-exatnined by Serjeant PELL-.-Witheis had often dined at the house of Lord Portsmouth. His Lordship always . coNlucted himself with great pro priety, and he was particularly .polite and attentive to Ladies. Witness never saw anything , tidier' to the eonduct .of Lord 'Potxsmuuth at table of elsewhere, ivhich would have induced the'stitness to /lave. di s contipoect his-visits at the house.. The •tortvervation••of. Lord Portsmouth was vague and _trifling, like ,that of a boy. The propriety of his 14rdship Wires.Ot a manly propriety. He remem. Pt:aired only Wks, and his amatory was an instinctive kiiiii 3 Oftnelisevjet he treasured up a sort of malice or tililiketd particular persons. • • Question. —What was his behaviour at Church ?—. H e was ver y attentive, and apparently devout; and sometimes, after the sermon, he would curie, up to rte,--and; addressing are by my Christioa. tame,, 'woad say to tne-" . Charles, we -have had a long sermon this Morning; we must have shorter one," Sirie2alt PiLle—Perhaps his Lordship was not lkifong in Ris judgment in that particular? '.'‘yalesa-Why Men dritimalreloag sermons as well lOrik SSieithet 4 . ortitt s tirnet-.(Lavgliter). "Jutia ittfriarj , , a butcher tritchnrch, vras next ' •