Star. — London, England, 1821-04-18 00:00:00

. cane, tip the People 'seers talrti represented in the House at' commoa&—The Petition was read, and ordered to be printed. The fpiwlck Gas light Bill was read a second time, end temmittel Mr. ABERCROMBIE presented a Petition from the Royal Cooperation of Merchants, Edinburgh, praying for Reims in the Snitch Burgh System. Mr. LINDSEY presented a Petition from the Magistrates of Dundee, complaining of a Petition previously presented to the Howe by certain individuals, charging them with melvenation, denying the charge, and urging their claim to be heard by Coup. i d against that Petition.—The Petition was read, and referred to the Select Committee on Scotch Burghs. Hr. W. SMITH obtained leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Act of the late King, relating to the improvement of the City o f Westminster, about Westminster Abbey, andthe two Houses of p o di ament .—The Bill was brought in, read a first, and or dered to be read a second time to-morrow. A Return of all Cause's entered for Trial in the last ten years In the Courts of Faigland and Wales, for sums under ,Cl 5, was ordeted to be laid before the House. Mr. BA NILES presented a Petition from the Trustees of the ikitish Museum, praying for aid. Sir FL PARNELL moved for Accounts of the quantities of Tobacco, Hides, Rum, ,Vine, &c. imported into Ireland for a ci e stabs period.—Ordered. Mt C. GRANT obtained leave to bring in a Bill to regulate Abe Prison Acts of Ireland. The house then went into a Committee on the Assessed Taxes tunposition Act. Mr. LUSHINSTON said, be bad now to propose certain Resolutions, the first of which would he to continue the Com position for Windows for a further period of six years. This Resolution was agreed to. The Right Hon. Member then pro- posed a similar Resolution, as related to Houses. This Resoln- - non was also agreed to ; as was a Resolution for continuing the Composition on horses, Carriages, and Servants, for three years. The House resumed, and the Report was ordered to be received tomorrow. rbe Insh Courts of Chancery and of Justice Bills went through Committees —Report to-mortow. THE METROPOLIS POLICE. The House went into a Committee on the Metro polis Police Acts. Mr. CLIVE said, in moving for leave to bring in' , a Bill to continue these Acts, it was unnecessary for him to detain the House by comments on their utility. He would only remark, that it was now intended to consolidate the two Acts, and to propose to remove the Police-office from Shadweil, where it was not wanted, to Mary-lA.6mile, where it would be found most serviceable. It was also intended to introduce a clause to regulate the opening and shutting of those houses of entertainment called Coffee Shops. It would also be proposed to place the Parish Constables under the controul of Government. He concluded by moving for leave to bring in a Bill accordingly. Mr. BENNETT would not object to the bringing in this Bill ; but he trusted the subject would receive the set ions consideration of th e House. He was glad to and the Coffee Shops were to call for the at tention of the House ; they were, in his opinion, se rious evils. But there was another abuse to which he had to advert—that WAS the mode of appointing and paying the high and Petty Constables. He knew one High Constable whose salary was nominal, and to make out a remuneration, he turned coal merchant, and in that character served all the bro. thels and public-houses in his district. The Petty Constables who attended Courts of Justice, also levied contributions on suitors and others frequenting those , nuns. He considered this as a most important Bill. He thought it should be renewed for one year, and, in the meantime, that a Committee of Inquiry should be established. He had authority to state, on the part of many Magibtrates, that if such a course was adopted, they could give such informa tion to the Committee, as would disclose a scene of iniquity unparalleled. Mr. CLIVE said, he should be most ready to at tend to any hints the Hon. Member could give to him. Mr. M. A. TAYLOR was persuaded nothing could be done to improve the Police of the Metropolis, until a revision of our prisons had taken place. At present be was convinced that no juvenile offender could re main in any one of our prisons a week without coming out a much worse subject than he entered. Leave was then given to bring in a Bill to con tinue and amend the existing Acts. PARLIAMENTARY REFORM. Lord EBRINGTON presented a Petition from Tavistock, complaining of the weight of taxation, arising, as the Petitioners believed, from extravagant Expenditure, and the keeping up a large Standing Army, and praying for Parliamentary Reform. Sir T. .%CLAND presented a l'etition from the County of Devon, signed by upwards of four thou sand five hundred persons, all, except about three hundred, freeholders. The Petitioners declared their loyalty and attacn.nent to the Constitution, but com plained of excessive expeclitur.: a:.d burdensome taxation; and, adverting to the manner in which seats were obtained in the House of Commons, ex pressed their opinion, that the practices known to had exist on this subject the effect of weakening the confidence of the country in that branch of the Le gislature. The Petitioners prayed for the introduc tion of economy in the public expenditure—for the abolition of all useless places—and for Reform in Parliament. With regard to retrenchment and eccs- 1 nomy of expenditure, he fully agreed with the Peti tioners ; but, as regarded Parliamentary Reform, he felt it his duty now to statethat, consistent with what he considered his duty to the country, he could not support the prayer of the Petitioners in the sense in which they understood it.—The Petition was read. Lord EBRINGTON expressed his concurrence in the prayer of the Petition, which was adopted at as, respectable, if not as numerous, a County Meeting' as he had ever witnessed ; but the thinness of the Meeting might be accounted for by its not having been held, as was usually the case, on a market-day. After a few words from Sir T. ACLAND, the Peti tion was received and ordered to be printed. Loral JOHN RUSSELL presented a Petition from! certain Freeholders of Plymouth, most respectably signed. The Petitioners stated, that previous to the year 1739, the Freeholders were in the habit of voting for Representatives for that Borough, but iu that year there was a double return, one by the Free holders, and one by the Corporation ; and, on an in quiry before a Committee of the House, the Com mittee decided, that the right of 'election lay with the Corporation. The Petitioners now prayed for Reform ; and that their case, amongst others, might be considered.—The Potition ordered to be printed. Lord JOHN RUSSELL then presented a Petition from lluntingdon, praying for Parliamentary Re form. -1 he Petition was read, ordered to lie on the table, and to be printed. Colonel JOHNSON presented a Petition from Boston, in favour of Reform. Similar Petitions were presented from Ely, by Lord F. o.sison me, and from AlregOrti, in Lincolnshire, 14 Sir R. Butort. I Mr. COKE presented a retitioti from certain in.' cause, he trusted that circumstance would awaken.' habitants of Suffolk, praying for Parliamentary Re. the attention of the People of England—(Hear, hear). form. He (Mr. Coke) recollected the late Lord Chat- On the opposite bench, he only saw the Right Hon. ham having said, unless the House reformed itself twins (the Chancellor of the Exchequer and Mr. &- within, it would be reformed from without with a thurst) the Representatives of the oyster dredgers of: vengeance. He was old enough to recollect his son, Harwich—( Laug hter, and Hear, hear was Mr. Pitt, in the House, an d h ear d hi m, w h en court- aware of a spirit - of disc ontent stalking abroad, which ling the favour of the People, promise them Reform; would not now be allayed by promises that had so but he departed from that promise; and to that often been broken. He bad an auxiliary in Mr. Justice breach of promise he imputed all the misery under Best, who, in a charge at Lancaster, alluded to the which the country was labouring. The independent progress of education, observing, that it called for Member for Suffolk was not present why the other new measures. About 20 or 30 years back, the lower Member for the County, who was present, did not classes had been remarkable for apathy, and for a present it, that Gentleman best knew; but perhaps blind submission to the will of their superiors. But now it was because he could not support it. Adverting things called for amelioration and concession. At pre again to the question of Reform, if Mr. Fox had re- sent there was a National Debt of £850,000,000; a manned long enough in power, he would have effected Sinking Fund that was but a name; a Standing At my Reform, and then the country would have been that had been the jealousy of our ancestors, but was spared much of its misery. We should have heard none to us ; the jails were crowded with criminals, nothing of the Holy Alliance—he would call it, the and almost every day_teemed with executions.— ' Infernal Alliance !—(Hear)—He was convinced, Such was the state of things, that it had been stated unless we had Reform, the miseries of the country last night in the House, that the country was only in must increase. This Petition was signed by 11,000 the first year of domestic peace. Nor was there any persons, consisting of the majority of the Nobility, thing in our foreign policy to console us for domestic Clergy, Gentry, and Freeholders of the county of disgrace. The abandonment of Norway, and the Suffolk ; and as such he moved to bring . it up. cession of Parga, had degraded us in the eyes of fo- Mr. GOOCH knew not why this Petition had not reign nations. We had, on a recent occasion, evinced been entrusted to him any mote than the Honourable an utter indifference to the struggles of oppressed na- Member who presented it. If it had, he should have lions to throw off the yoke under which they groaned. done his duty by presenting it, and he would second Had we acted towards the Italians as we ought to the Motion for its being received—(Hear, hear).— have done, the progress of the Austrians might have There was one expression of the Member for Norfolk been arrested, and those chains broken which he to which lie must advert. The Honourable Member teared now were but too firmly rivetted, and which, had regretted the absence of the independent Mem- by a noble resistance, might have been broken asun ber for Suffolk. What did the Honourable Member der. In his opinion, the origin of them all was to mean by that insinuation? The Honourable. Mem- be found in the vicious state of the Representation, 'her seemed inclined on all occasions to assume to him- which gave the Ministers of the Crown unlimited [ self all the independence of the House; but he would power over the deliberations of that House. Hoc tell the Honourable Gentleman, that, as a man, he forte derivate (Jades in patrianz popidanque flusit.— was as independent as the Honourable Member for Our forefathers had fought for their liberties, and Norfolk—(Hear, hear).—lf numbers of acres consti- drew down upon them the hatred of tyrants ; but by toted independence, then, perhaps, the Honourable the present system, it was not necessary to resort to Member was the most independent—(Loud cheering); violent means to subjugate the people. The deed was but he denied the insinuation of the Honourable done with greater facility by corrupting the }Louse of Member. He never bought or sold a vote, and never Commons. It was no matter ofsurprisethatthe National would!—.(Hegr, hear).—He declare), before GOD. he Debt had been increa.ed to 1000 millions in the late had never benefited a penny by the present Admi- reign. At present the theory of the Constitution was nistration; but he conscientiously gave them his con- lost, as 150 individuals returned 350 Members to that Science which perhaps the Honourable Membe r f or Ho use . W e o f ten h ear d of Members vacating their Norfolk as Conscientiously withheld. With respect seats, as they could not vote in opposition to the to this Petition, he must say a few words on the sub- patron from whom they derived their seats! at the ject of its expressing the unanimous opinion of the same time such a delicacy was never heard of on the County. He was ready to acknowledge the respect part of those chosen by the People. To shew the ability of the signatures. There were the names of state of the Representation, a majority of that House three Peers to it; but there were thirteen Peers in the had approved of the Expedition to Walcheren. He County. As to the Gentlemen, there were twelve thought, in order to remedy that state of things, Magistrates out of 450; out of 500 livings which there should be a recurrence to Triennial Parliaments, were in the County, eight Clergymefi had signed this that rotten boroughs should be disfranchised, and the Petition; and out of 8,000 Freeholders, it was signed right of election should be extended to copyholders, by 1,000. As to the Mover and Seconder of this Pe- householders, and leaseholders. In the time of ' tition, the first was a Noble Peer, who never attended Edward HI. a Parliament used to be held once a year. his Parliamentary duty; the Seconder had held a si- —The next Act was that of the 17th of Charles 11. tuation for many years underthe Administration which requiring that a Parliament should be held once in he now abused ; and the third name on the list was three years. A similar Act had passed in the time of that of a person in the receipt of a sinecure —(Hear, William and Mary. By the Ist of George I. the dura hear).—As to the manner of obtaining signatures, he iron of Parliament was extended from thiee to seven bad a letter in his pocket, from a person at Ipswich, years. The Hon. Gentleman here read the Protest in which stated, that the comeion Crier had been sent the House of Peers, stating that the longer the Par round to announce that the Petition was lying for liament l as t e d t h e more liable it was to be corrupt.' signatures at certain places. The letter concluded On the subject of that Act, commonly called the Sep by stating, that to describe this as the Petition of a tennial Act, he should only say that the benefit to the majority, was a libel on the County of Suffolk. • The then generation was purchased at the expense of pos- Honourable Gentleman concluded by declaring, that terity. Edward HI. had said to a Petition, that although the signatures were most respectable, yet Knights should be elected by the whole of the County, they were not the majority, as stated in the Petition. and also that there were many Acts for Annual Par- He seconded the Motion for its being brought up. liaments. By the disqualifying Act of Henry VI. the Mr. WESTERN contended that this Petition did ancient regulations had been done away, and it was express, as fully as any Petition ever did, the opinion enacted that none should vote for the election of of the County at large. Members for Counties unless they had 40s. a-year ; After a few words from Sir R. WILSON and Mr. and another Act of the same King compelled artists 600011, the Petition was received. to work for low wages. By the old laws, no one Mr. CURWEN said, he had now to present a Pe- could represent a County. or Borough unless he re tition from the County of Curitherland, adopted at a sided there, and was free of them. But was it meant Meeting of nearly 10,000 persons ; but before he pre- that places now dwindled into nothing should send sented this Petition, he should move that the Clerk Members to Parliament? As to the question, whe should read the title of the Act of the 49th of the ther the owners of those Boroughs should have any late King.—[The Clerk accordingly read the Act in compensation for them, as was the opinion of Mr. question, which is entitled, " An Act for the better Pitt, he should say decidedly, no; for they would be preserving the Purity and Independence of the Re- deprived of nothing that they had a right to have. presentation, by preventing the Sale of Seats in Par- He was aware it would be difficult to make an exact liament."J—The Hon. Member then proceeded to proportion between population and property. The state that the Petition he held in his hand complained principle of a change in the Representation was not that this Act had remained a dead letter on the Statute new, but had been recognized in several Acts of Book; and to pray for Reform in Parliament, as the Parliament, particularly in the County Palatine of only measure which could relieve the country from Chester; and in the time of Charles the Second a its difficulties.—The Petition was then brought up, similar privilege had been extended to Durham.— read, and laid on the table. He should propose that Householders, Copyholders, Mr. BROUGHAM bore testimony to the respect- and Leaseholders, should be admitted to vote at the ability of the Petitioners ; the numbers were at least election of Members of Parliament. He had drawn from 6000 to 7000, almost all yeomanry. The opi- up the heads of a Bill, which was divided into three nion of that body of men was unanimous on the parts : the first part related to Householders ; the se subject of Reform, and the opinion of the yeomanry cond to Copy and Leaseholders ; and the third related in other parts of the country was also strongly in to the repeal of the Septennial Act ; the Universities favour of Parliamentary Reform. • he should leave as they were, By a 'division of the Lord LOW THER dissented from the opinion country into districts, and taking one to ten for house that the yeomanry were unanimous on the subject holders, each Member would have 2500 Constituents. of the Petition. There was a great Fair at the time, The Returning Officer was to be a Magistrate, to be and that accounted for the numbers, chosen annually by the Overseers. If he acted cor- Lord MILTON said, that the Meeting must have ruptly, he was liable to be imprisoned ; but„ upon been indiscriminate, and yet it had been unanimous. paying a fine of £2OO, lie might decline to act. The Mr. WALLACE considered that the opinion of poll was to be kept open eight hours, and to last six the Meeting was not unanimous. days. There was also to be a sufficient number of Mr. BROUGHAM did not speak to a, unit. Why booths, and the votes to be taken alphabetically. The did not the Noble Lord (Lowther) attend at the election was to be .at the principal town. If the Meeting, which had been called by Requisition? No voter lived at the distance of five miles from the attempt had been made to interrupt the unanimity. place of election, he might tender his vote to the Sir ROBERT WILSON (in the absence of Mr. Overseer. The election should commence on the Calvert, from a domestic calamity) had a Petition to Monday, and terminate without the intervention of a present from the Borough of Southwark, praying Sunday. Within a fortnight after the rates had been that the House would withdraw its confidence from made, the Overseers and the Collectors of Taxes were Ministers, and in favour of Parliamentary Reform.— to send them in alphabetical order to the Returning Read, laid on the table, and ordered to be printed. Officers. At the same time he should propose, that - Mr. DENMAN presented a Petition from Not- those who had been in the habit of voting should re tingham, complaining of excessive taxation, and pray- tarn that right for their own lives. To the County ing for a Reform in Parliament.— Laid on the table, Voters lie should propose to add all Copyholders of and ordered to be printed. forty shillings a-year. He should also propose that Mr. LA MBTON then rose, pursuant tcrnotice, to all leases renewable at the will of the lessee, of which call the attention of the House to the subject of Par- twenty-one years were unexpired, should confer the bamentary Reform. Nothing but a sense of public right of voting. The duration of County Elections duty could have induced him to take up a question he should fix at ten, instead of fifteen days.--- to which he felt he was inadequate. But the neces- The Honourable Member here read the form of an sity of Reform was apparent from the state of the oath, which the candidate was to take at the poll, table. He was almost then tempted to take the sense and afterwards at the table of the House of Corn of the House from the small number on the opposite mons. He should also propose to disqualify those benches. If that was meant as an insult on himself, who had offices abroad; such as Ambassadors, and he treated it with contempt ; but if meant for the Naval and Mahan Officers. He should not now , \l-41 / 4 1 icaiP Move for leave to bring in the Bill ; but should move that the House should resolve itself into a Committee, to take into consideration the state of the Representa tion. By voting for that Committee, no man who voted for it was thereby pledged to any ulterior pro ceeding. He who voted for the Committee, onlq admitted that the state of the Representation wanted inquiry. The Bill was only to extend to England and Wales; but, should the Bill succeed, which he was not sanguine enough to believe, it could easily be extended to Scotland and Ireland. In favour of the present system it had been said, it worked well in practice ; and he did not deny that it worked well for the Honourable Gentlemen opposite—(Cheees)- It had been also said, that a Reform would exclude men of talent from Parliament. He did not believe that would be the case; but, if it were so, he would sacrifice the talents of the Members to the purity of the House. He should conclude by moving, that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, to take into consideration the state of the Representation. Mr. S. WHITBREAD seconded the motion. He was impelled to come forward by the call of duty. If report spoke true, there were Members in that House who Could not state the means by whit* they had been returned. The House seemed to be in the situation of a- female, with whom a man might take any liberty except that of telling her of her frailty ! —(A laugh).—He did not mean to say that a Reform in Parliament would redress all the grievances of the. People ; but it would be the first step to that end.-- No doubt could exist as to the power of Parliament to extend the elective franchise ; and he believed there WAS as little doubt of the expediency. Mr. WILMOT had no fears that the House would consent to the sweeping alterations in the Constitu tion proposed by the Hon. Gentleman. The distress of the country was owing to the long war in which we had been engaged; but, during that war, the country had gone completely along with the Govern ment of that day. He (Mr. Wilmot) must not be supposed to he an enemy to Reform, because he did nut support the sweeping plan of the Hun Gentle man. Ever since Mr. Wyndham had described Jacobinism as active and embodied, a standing army was necessary to aid the Police of the country...-. The Hon. Gentleman here read the answer from the House of Commons in the time of Edward 111. in which they tell the King that they are too simple to give any opinion as to the measures of his Govern ment. From such a Hcuse of Commons it was im possible to argue to the House of Commons of the present day. The people of the country had been told, that Universal Suffrage and Annual Parlia ments were their right, and on that account, and not from considerations of expediency, they had come as suitors to the Bar of that House. He was to learn what class of public men would or could undertake r the Goveniment under such a Reform as had been marked out by the Hon. Gentleman. He (Mr. Wil mot) did not know how to conclude his speech better than by repeating the words of a predecessor of the Right Hon. Gentleman who filled the Chair My daily prayer is, for the continuance of the Constitu tion, and for the preservation of the dignity of this House to the latest posterity"—(Hear, hear). Mr. HOBHOUSE could not agree in the argu ments of the last speaker, as to the mischiefs result ing from emerging from a state of slavery to too great a portion of liberty, the argument would not apply to this country. We were not ernerging.frosn a state of slavery, we were not yet in that situation, whatever we might be. As to what had been said of innovation, the change proposed would be no inno vation. Mr. Hume said, the whole history of this country was a history of changes, and a Member of high authority in the House, at present the Mem ber for Bramber, had said on one occasion, that a Resolution that there should be no change, would be the greatest innovation which could be adopted. The Honourable Member then proceeded to point out the different numbers of which the House had at different periods been composed. In the reign of Henry the Sixth the number of Representa tives was only 300; Henry VIII. added 37 to the number ; Queen Elizabeth also added to the number.; and James I. decreed, that Westminster and the Uni versities should send Members. He 'also contended, that the mode of election and the duration of Parlia ments had been changed ; therefore, those who sup ported the present proposition were not innovators. All his Hon. Friend and he desired was, to return to that form which Parliament originally bore. The Hon. Gentleman then proceeded to take a review of the manner in which the House of Co mmons was at present constituted, and to point out the influence used in returning Members ; and contended, that, as at present constituted, with a majority, returned by 71 Peers and 91 Commoners, it did not represent the People. Let the Petitioners, however, come in what numbers they might, still there was no public opinion, according to Gentlemen opposite. It was like the line " Ask where's the North? at Yoik 'tis on the Tweed!" All admitted its existence, but none recognised it present. By ancient records it was clear that we wete entitled to Annual Parliaments ; he did not say that nothing less than Annual Parliaments would satisfy him ; he only stated this to chew that Annual Parlia ments were originally our right. He now called cna all Reformers to unite in one effort to obtain some Reform. He proceeded to mention the various pro positions which had been made for Reform by diffe? rent great . men since the Revolution ; amongst them were Sir W. Jones, Lord Chatham, Sir G. Saville, Mr. Fox, Mr. Burke, the Duke of Richmond, and Mr. Pitt. He regretted that the individual last named had departed from his original principles. He was persuaded the Family on the Throne could have no fear of a Parliament elected by the People. Their attachment had been proved on more than one occasion : he need only mention the cae of the Re bellion of 1745. It was now well ascertained, that the Aristocracy on that occasion had promised the Pretender support; but it appeased the People would not support him, but adhered to the King; for in the whole march from Scotland to'Derhy, the Pre tender was joined by only 300 of Cal People. So as to the Parliament of the Rebellion of 1645, that was anything but a tree Parliament, it was aParliament purged by Colonel Pride, and by some others, and was composed of persons who had no light whatever to legislate. He was convinced, in a free Parlia- Inca, the prerogatives of the Throne would find support, and the Peoples liberties protection. The , Hon. Member then proceeded to allude to a speech - • 4.. • feii~7i'i~i ._ „~, ut....• •-•••••• .i.""Vit.. ? " • --mss . i 1 . ~ a l