Star. — London, England, 1813-06-22 00:00:00

ruff licenses, the most liable of all instruments to be abused, as some late instances (without meaning any blame to any of his Maje s ty' s Ministers) had abun dantly shewn. It was not of them, but of the system that he complained. As to the monopoly itself, there was no reason why its existence should warrant its continuance. The trade carried on by foreigners was subject to none of those inconveniences of which the British merchant complained. Neither could he tee why China and Canton should be shut out from open trade:. If monopoly was to be abolished in In dia, why not in China too, where trade is wholly un connected with the political gaveynment ? From a desire to preserve a balance between the Company and the free trader, it had been deemed expedient for the Company to preserve a monopoly in China, and to conduct a losing commerce with the free trader.— Various inquiries it was incumbent on their Lordships to make. Among others, the maintenance of troops under the Company; to distinguish between the com mercial and the political interest of the Company and of the empire. In short, the plan proposed appeared to him a monstrous attempt to sustain a monopoly and a free trade, and thereby laying a foundation for perpetual conflict and disunion.— It would give to the Government of India an interest distinct from that of all other governments that ever existed; a free trade to an arbitrary ruler, himself a trader. One or ,the other must be destroyed in a struggle that might be fatal to the Indian Empire. —lt was like that ancient act of capricious tyranny, the fastening of a living body to a dead one. The former could not quicken the latter,"but must inevitably be embarrassed by it. He should prefer a much mere simple plan. Why, he would ask, should the charter be extended to 20 years, when changes in three or four might furnish reason for regret at such extension ? There was no one who considered the magnitude of the objects in question but must see the necessity of pause and circumspection. It was a question which, in .its consequences, would fix upon that House, and upon the nation, the character either of lasting Lemour or eternal disgrace. He concluded with moving that the Report of the Committee be brought up that day three months. L(lrd I\lE LVILLE defended the Resolutions, and the system to be founded upon them, by the practical efficiency of the measures in 1793, on which they were formed ; and maintained, that no want of formation could taiily be urged by any Noble Lord on a subject that had so long been under their con templation. The Earl of LAUDERDALE, notwithstanding what had been said of ample time and deep consider ation on a subject by no means new, maintained that the time for deliberation had not been sufficient, and the subject was in substance and effect really new.— Even if it had been literally copied from the Bill of ]793, it would virtually be new at present, when within 20 years the extent both of territory and re venue in India had been doubled. The revenue being at present twenty miilioas, and the amount of debts four times what it was in 1793. The measures, so far as they had been tried, had comeletely failed in every par: of them ; and he would tell the Noble, Lord opposite ( Lord Melville) and his noble father, were he niiw living, that the free made about to be opened was a pet feet chimera—a complete delusion. They were, however, unqualified to cone to a deci sion, for on every point information was wanting.— Amongst other things, they had failed in making in• . quiries respi-ctieg what ought to have occiipied their first attention—the ieternal state and condition of the people of India, with the view of ascertaining linw they were affected by the present syi-tem, and whe ther the Cc nip:ivy was really fit to continue the G veromerit of India, or whether a radical change was riot wanting ? This had not been done—no such inquiry had been made. With the intent of throwing light on many of these points, he had on some occa sions, moved for many papers; but he had met with that sort of systematic opposition from the Noble Lords on the other side, which soon cooled his ardour and made him abandon a course of proceeding from Which tie was so likely to gain so little benefit. ''Of the present Parliament, however, he had hoped better things, He had hoped that even Ministers would have gone into something liko decent inquiry. The Noble Lord (Buckinghamshire) to be sure had given hem all his information on the subject—and he had welled some time in India, and therefore must know good deal ; and the servants of the Company too, all honourable men," very honourable, men had • yen their information .on the subject ; but after •II this splendid display, what real light had been hrown on thedifficulties and doubts which surrounded he question ? With respect to the Government of ndia, he should like some of the Noble Lords oppo ite to tell him that it could be carried on with some 2 or 24-Directors—that they could govern 60,000,000 if people. Ir they were to say any thing of the kind, hey would assert what was belied by the experience f all ages and by all the best theories of good govern ent. Who would, who could have the boldness to - y that 21 Directors could govern such an immense opulation at such a distance from them ? To make ch an asstrtion, or, that the government of India stild not be carried on without die Directors, would a libel on that excellent Constitution which they 11 professed so mncli to admire. In 1793 they had eard a good deal about a surplus revenue—but on fat head the Ministers were now silent. To continue to Government in its present form, or in its sug ested form, would be a robbery—would be impove siting the country by a constant drain without any !turn. In conclusion, lie told their Lordships, that ; renew the Charter would be the grossest breach of ith, and the grossest act of injustice, that could be terrnined on by any set Of Ministers. The Fail of BUCKINGHAMSHIRE shortly died to Lord Lauderdale. The Earl of Itot. ,, ,LYN and the Zerl of BuotiNcioem- RE explained as to the ononwr in which the lour onti sLoidel be nt: t. .ord CLANCAItTY was of Ppinion, that the intents of the Noble L rds opposite in favour of advantages that ruig!.t result to the private lcr were extrcniel) ta.lacious, and c,iicoisto d mach injury. Shacked as the private trade hi qo had gren, much Littera resulted !runt it ; anu :otifidently looked fi.r,vard to the realization o • ease d b en , fi. s to to pict C traJur, provide, the 'ate tra.le was kept ‘sit:uit hounds 01 a chili accei had heretofore anarkd the teatrictions. The i lion.. si Lord C Intitnent! s e adval tdcr we ) mach I et to lot confide :reased ivate tr: a; had 1 system as enlarged was good, and well merited the support of Parliament. The Earl of LAUDERDALE certainly had required more time, and be yet could call to mind many points on which they were deficient, Their were many of the accounts of the Company ',lda required explanation and illustration—but he raged for other accounts in vain. CRENVILEE, is *planation, observed, that lie 'would haie one great objection removed, it indeed this measure vitae to be subject to the constant visas of Parliament. The necessity for the renewal of the Charter for 20 years was nothing but a mere pretext—it was putting off the evil day in a way that 'skewed, that as long as it could be put off, nobody cared how it was accomplished. Notwithstanding _ . ed to oppose the Duke, though the Duke sent a very submisiv.e letter, promising more attentive conduct —To this indignity he submitted, for the sake of his interest in this corrupt borough. He thought, that after what had been done in the Penryn cau , e, the House could not pass over that which 1, . :c now under their consideration. He believed the o.ily borough in Cornwall that had the least semblance at Lord Crometery explained, as did Lords Bocit a all he had heard, he yet thought that the root of the independence, was that which he had the he ,„,. INGIIANISHIRE and LAUDERD A LE. ~ , evu •in me' system was, the union of Sovereign and to represent, (a laugh); and the reason MS, they mad e • Lord GRENVILLE would not take up much Merchant, a union tha t t o met a tb d em a t d every turn of the the rate in the Vestry in such a manner, as that r( of their Lordships' time at that late hour, but he system now proposed man could be returned who was not the choice r I ' . ) owed it to himself and to his country and to their Lords Mrseviet..x, Geativiae opte and B majority of the freemen of the town.—(Hava)....l ai t Lordships to say, that should the Amendment un- swag, successively explained. ; ncitiNtibt . u.- was true that corruption had flourished even there - fortunately be rejected, he should decline all further After which the House divided on the original a former period, and that twenty-four guineas was th " : interference in the diScussion of the question. Every motion for having the Report brought up to-morrow, price paid for each particular vote, but these irc word, every sentence that had fallen from the oppo- when there appeared—For it 49—Against it 14— tices had been discontinued. He then advertedte ' ;; a : site side had convinced him the more firmly of their Majority 35. Adjourned. case of the Borough of Lestwithiel, at the time of it complete inadequacy to come to a decision on so HOUSE OF COMMONS. Robert Walpole, and mentioned an anecdote of that great and so important a question—a question in- The Ecclesiastical Courts Bill we. read a third time and passed. great Statesman, which shewed the nature of the b raving interests of so much magnitude, not only as The English Insolvent Debtors Bill,the d Lotterl . Bill, and the gage tenures in Cornwall : there was something u i r ; regarded ourselves, but as they affected those en- , Cape Wine Bill, were read a third ti me it rather coarse. but it was truly descriptive of their Sir G. WARRENDER brought up t h e an R p e a p as o e rt d. of the Naval trusted to their care, either by the triumph of arms Ireal situation. Sir Robert Walpole, then Prime n Pensions BilL Ordered to be read third time a _nie to-morrow. sister, put into the hands of the candidate whom I t ; or by the success of treaty. He saw more and more ; The Report of the Irish Malt Duty Bill was brought up, and how lamentably deficient all of them were of infor- the Bill ordered to be that rea t d he 3 third ß time to.niorrow. favoured, a charter for the Borough of Leawithiel, Report of the kish Distillation Bill which vested the right of election in 17 Aldermen mation on this great question, and, therefore, did he : On the questi on most sincerely wish for solemninquiry, dreading as be taken into further considera e tiot t nearly in and a few freemen of the town, and he told him if he he did the evils which must result from legislating in Mr. W. POLE opposed it on the same ground, and ever lost his election he ought to bed —d. The the en l same ded words which he employed od the second reading: he ignorance and darkness. Here had been the mockery by m ovin g, mt that kbe taken‘into farther consideration expression, certainly, was not a little applicable to the of inquiry. The Company, in their petition for a ous oc d u ay three case imniediately before them.—(Hear)—After the renewal of the Charter, had prayed to be heard by i Sir 0. Hill, Colonel Bagwell, Mr. Croker, and Mr. W. Fitz- House had sent Mr. Croghan to Newgate, for asserting gerald, said a few words in support of the Bill. The House then Counsel, and to have witnesses examined in support that he had seats to sell,he did not see how it was possi divided on the am o rris it, 7—Againstit, 82. Majority, of the Company's allegations. Witnesses had been 75, in favour of the Bill ble for them to pass over this case, unless they meant examined it was true, but in such a way, that he : me. MA nf D c r ia X tia p n r it e y s . T n ted ind a ia petition from Boston , for the pro. to measure their resentment by the rank of the often. could derive no satisfaction from the proceeding. A Pinion ders, and not by the quality of the offence. (Hear, hear.) , Ike Report el the Bill on Mr. Palmet's claims being broughtup, Noble Lord, on his having complained of the want He could see no reason why, in the present insUnce, b Mr. STUART ‘A ORTI.kY rose, to move that the Bill ntigiet df information, had Undertaken to teach him (Lordthe person transgressing the law should be excused d the purpose b of altering the grant contained Grenville) his duty, and had told him that he ought in it; he recomm it te d , aiol f : Mr . Palmer, whose i because he is a Duke. In this case the Duke of Leeds to have attended the Committee. He had attended invention had been of the tam e os aa t " se l rt r e al to to the had paid the debts of the Corporation who elected therefore, that some compensation was due t p rOlll 'a the nation to him, and by so doing, had acted contrary to the law it for two days. but the result was, that he felt COO though it was not to be claimed as a matter of rinced there was no mode of employing his time that Gentienan ' of the land, and had - infringed on the principles of sum which he proposed to give would be nearly two which could be of less advantage to him, in so extra- thirds r i g, t.T f h t e hthe Constitution. He concluded by moving, that the A s ur m a already d s y t at mentioned d ordinary a manner were the witnesses questioned.— i Colonel n l a ' , that as the arrangement propmed Attorney-General be ordered by the House to prose. As he could not by possibility hit on a plan of em- by the Hon. Member was not agreed by the Administration, lie cute George Frederick Duke of Leeds for the said had no alternative but to endeavour to carry the Bill as it stood; ploying his time that could be less profitable to offence. that dt be h i ad t d d une id every thing in h i; power, consistent with his him, lie endeavoured to fi nd out a mode of making a f ll u a rt l h % t V r lin a St C a u l s t e o li p e hail l. undertak d en, to prevent Mr. D. GIDDY expressed his surprize at the man bim P ar li ament ; Goverment,an e nt; an alterl , es i theit ce r l t as l y t nee in which the present motion had been brought a better use of it, and had desisted from attending th l e y ne n ce t sjty n of i the Committee. They had the examinations of regretted that an offer, niacrepe b yforward, and the observations which had been made those witnesses before them, and he would ask, Session, to refer the matter to arbitration, had been rejected.— on the Noble Duke, and the individuals said to be r is i le trusted, therefore, that the friends to the Bill would pardon w'lat light had been thrown on the question by their ancerned in the transaction. If the u 'cement was cor evidencethLe. t rou bl e n i nto,l b e fer h t a t cl e been compelled to give them, and would reject • C ? He bad much reflected on the matter, recommitment. • I reef, much as he respected those individuals, it would as one of the deepest interests, and the result was, Mr. RUSE opposed the Bill, and also Sir C. BURRILL. not be in his power to say a sin; le ward in their tie. that many, vet y many, were the points on which : Mr. P.MOORE insisted that Mr. Palmer, ins cad of receving fence, or in the defence of conduct so directly oppo. two and an half per cent. as had been alleged, wou id nut receive he had doubts, and on w hich he would inquire i one N, r, Lis agreement. site to all constituti mai principles. He admitted that before hc could think of coining to a conclusion.— the question of the sum could not now faults had been committed, but contended tiat there After what the Noble Lord (Lauderdale) had said, ! conic before the i House. sad, was not sufficient ground for the present mot ion The he e ould not go through the details of the question • i The SPEAKER said it was undoubtedly - competent to t t o iftheit family of the Duke of Leeds had long resided in the 9 1 House, in any stage of the proceesh:g, to reduce yet he could not abstain from some remarks.— y, whether the neighbourhcouti of Helstone, w .icli town bad derived thou; he proper : lut the question now was ccerel The Noble Lords opposite had said, as the Minis- Bill should be re-committed ? f the greatest advatttges from their good offices. 'l'ae tees contemplated no change in the Government of ! Mr. LONG tho, 11. that N . 1 Palm er s h o uld consent to sonic family of Gidolp;mt was wel. known and celebrated India, why ask questions—why make inquiries ? deduction , or, account of the exempti on t. M ai l- co a c h es .10M the •in thehistory of Englafid. The ojet in the parties Why, that was the very reason for desiring inquiry, • toll-duty. now aectbed had been to relieve du e ai rough from Mir. l ERO I WN said, the House had on former occasions consi to ascertain whether there ought not to be some 4 d, ainial a matter of tight, and that to recommit the certain heavy taxes which it had laboured under. change. Nei one would say that there was a ter- Bill ou t ;la s e . present ground., would be to etultfy their former de- This tl;ey had dune, and this was their only crime. tainty of the Government of India being well carried , ci'l""i• , It was well known that the Duke hid repeatedly no- Mr. W. DIINDAS oppose d the Bill. on for the next twenty years ; indeed, very little ex- ; minated candidates for the Borough of Helstorfe. and , Colonel h I d 'ALM Lit, lel answer to Mr. Long, s4d, that Mail perience was reqnired to show that many reasons 1 tint nexeed from duty in 1784, and that Mr. they had been returned. No doubt, tie law had been might shoot across the mind to induce 7t contrary ' c° l , :i c in'er s •did a receive his appointment, nor wu the agreement traken ; but he would leave it to the House, whether, belief. With the Government in its present form ', made, till 1189. i under all the circumstances, it was a case which Mi. H. SUNINER opposed the grant. . called for its interference ? There was another way the complicated mixture of rule and commerce, oft Mr. WYNNE would never allow that any Chancellor of the Sovereign and merchant—and the great remittances i Euxecnitirqerha e consent d i aright to convey any sum art money, by agree- ,by which the House might m express iis disapproba fro that country without any returns, he had neve n r withou t 1 of Parliament. I ton—that would be, to come to a re; 1 ulna signify- Colonel PALIVER S:liti, the objection of the Hun. Gentleman ing the intention of the House to b r ing in a Bill to heard airy one say that the cutmtry could bear such i a state of things for any great length of time. What regulate Elections at Helstone in future. Such a I . lter a few words from Mr. Goutsovarts, the House divided was done in 1793 was no example for them now—if ; — . : li i i r e t it ', e e A m et endn:en h t 44—Against is 77. 1 Resolution as this would answer every purpose of the Parliament did wrong at that time of day it wasting the improper conduct complained of, which and the itt i l i t o peo w pn a sed t tonbereec,eaidveed,thtileide time Amendments t agreed T to, CO;Tec no reason that they should do so on the present occa- I , certainly had taken place, The Aldermen, he con. sion. The period had, then been limited with the Mr. BANK es proposed as an Amendment thr thnetrthwri d . tended, were not benefited by their interference in this should be fixed for Thursday The gallery was cleared, readingti'a but no view of promoting ir.quiry, and they had some right i division took place ; and the Bill was ordered to be read a third Election, and therefore they could not have acted to hope that an examination would have been gone . time to-n'orruw. i from any corrupt motives. HP had no objection to into instead of receiving a string of resolutions from 1 HELBTONE ELECTION. I see the Borough thrown open, but he saw ao occasion Ministers, at the close of a laborious Session. But for the prosecution now moved for. let them say what they pleased about the measure of Mr. W. WYNNE was happy to see this question, 1793, he would assert, and feared not contradiction, and the Report, at length brought before the House. . _ tht had it not been for that very measure, the British name would not have existed in India two years after that period—(Hear, hear.) There was anther sub ject, which had keen touched upon for the first time this night, and a hich he could not pass unnoticed, namely, the surplus revenue in India.—(flear.) He would ask whether that subject was nothing when they considered the amount of the revenue—the na ture of it, the manner in which it was collected, and the mode of its application. Who could tell the abuses that had crept into this part of the system ?—who could tell what oppressions might not be carried on for the purposes of raising revenue ? He had never yet found any one wbo could solve the problem for him, whether the revenue collected in ildia was not The Special Report of the Committee on the Hel stone Election was read, containing . a charge against the Duke of Leeds, for his conduct in that borough : it was agreed to by the House. Mr. SWAN then rose to make his motion on this subject. He was actuated by no private enmity or pique, but thought it his duty, as one of a large ma jority in that Committee, to submit this question to the House. He did not wish to say any thing disre spectful of the Noble Duke, whose character was of the first respectability, nor of the worthy Members whom the Duke had nominated. It appeared that the great liberality practised by the family of the Noble Duke, formerly resident near that Borough, had produced on the part of the inhabitants and cor poration, a wish to compliment him by giving him the nomination of the Members for the Borough. He was not disposed to object to the legitimate influence of property : but the Duke's was of a different sort : his family had ceased to reside there, and the castle was going to ruin.: but he had bought the represen tation qf the Borough for the consideration that he should pay 4121,700 per year, the amount of the poor rates of the town of Helstone. The Borough had been corrupt for years, and he believed, the Right Honourable the SPEAKER was •the last Member who was chosen by the only remaining freeman. In 1804, the Duke had thought the terms offered to him unworthy of his acceptance, and an Honourable Baronet (Sir Christopher Hawkins), had purchased a moiety of the interest for 5000 guineas, a practice at which (as had been expressed by high authority) our ancestors would have started with indignation.— He had thought it, as many others had found it, a good stepping-stone towards a seat in the other House. A consultation then took place in the Clll f ro. ration to whom they should offer the ot: er ni. fr!y, and it being resolved to make an offer to the D.rke, that Nobleman received the application with thank fulness, and expressed a hope, that he should behave better in future. He must here state, that the great actors in all the corruptions and briberies of Cornwall elections were Clergymen : at f regotry, a clergyman was the principal agent : at Pero yo, a cirri, yrnan was likewise the prime mover :—arid the Rev. Mr. Grills, who was also chief Alderman at Helstone, and possessed a valuable King's living, had the con duct of the bribery at Helstone. The Duke, who had agreed to pay the poor-rates, amounting to ,El7OO, under that agreement nominated two gentlemen, Mr. Hammetsley, the bankqr, and Mr. Horne, the barrister. One of the Cokpieation, who had applied to the Duke for some situatiori for his son, and had received no answer, though he was able to bear the disappointment, could not bear the blight, determin . _ The fact was establishal, beyond the possibility of a contradiction, that the Duke of Leeds had violated the standing orders of the House, and the law of the country ; and if the House had kny regard for its oven dignity, it could not pass over this motion with- out due notice. He telt that if this motion were ne. gatived, it would be degrading to the dignity of the House, as well as a violetign of the law. He WAS ready to participate in every feeling of private rtspect to the character of the Duke of Leeds ; but that N. bleman should not, on that account, be exempt from a prosecution, to winch awn in humbler situations of life would be liable. Mr. TREMAINE thought the punishment ought to fall on the Borough, and not on the individual, tsoo at once so enormous and so oppressive, that the land could not much longer exist under it. They ought to ascertain this fact, what proportion of revenue the land could bear from which it was collected—it was had only trod in t e steps of others who hdd gone belbre him. He would consent to have the 13,rough thrown open to the Freeholders of the Hundred ; but not. to the lower orders of the people, who would a matter of the highest importance, and well me:ited their most solemn consideration, as embracing the poverty or prosperity of the people in India. He would not have them pledge the faith of the Parlia ment of England, without inquiry, for the collection of a revenue that might be ruinous in its tendency-- that might he more than the land could bear. But the Ministers had no accounts in their pockets—they could not shew what would he even the probable effect—they had no decision in their system. There was something that he had heard which gave him peculiar satisfaction, namely, that though the Charter was to be granted for twenty years, the lease was voidable at the will of those who granted it—that in truth, it was to be subject to the revisal of Parliament. He had trespassed long er than he intended; but he owed it to himself an d to his country to withdraw himself from the proceedings which were about to be adopted, as the whole nook' have the effect of making a shew of discussion and deliberation where there wally was none—where they had nothing to proceed on. Lord LIVERPOOL contended, that every argu ment that could be adduced wits against delay; that it imperiously called on thetn for immediate discus sion, and immediate discussion of the principles of the system was all that was required by the motion before them. As to further intormatii.n, Committees of In. muiry had been had by both Houses ; and the prin. ciples of the Government were distinctly known in December or January last. The projected system was 10l111dCd on experience, rejecting what was bad, and adopti.% what was goods ester be influenced by the most Corrupt Candidates. and would return the worst species of Members to that House. Mr. BRAND supported the motion; and said, the speech of the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Giddy) only served to convince him more than ever tithe neces sity of a Reform in Parliament—a question which. he regretted, could not be brought before the House this Session. Not only ought this motion to be agreed to, but a Bill ought to be brought in to purify the Borough of Helstone, by throwing the represen tation into the surrounding Hundreds. Mr. BAN KES thought the House shruld not order a prosecution of this kind, unless a conviction was likely to take place. He was clearly of opinion, that there was not the most distant probability of such a prosecution succeeding ; and therefore, from the very necessity of the case, the House must ahandon the cony ,c of procecdinr, recommendci to ;t. Every end would he attained by bringing in a Bill correcting' the constitution of the lluton:(h, which, he hoped, the lion. Gentleman du in:meth:idly. Mr. PRESTON befesei there was an illegal con duct at the Election; but as he was sure there cou:d not be it conviction, were this motion agreed he would, move, as an amendment, this Resolution :—. That the House would, early in the next Sesuun of Parliament, take into consideration the state of the Election for the Borough of Helstone, with a view to extend the right of franchise therein." Mr. ASTON opposed the motley. • Nir. S. WORTLEY ssislied the House to consi der that there was a utr2r :1, / Oa 1 tat Lte ' F as I is 1) 1 sea il othi rhat M ,id iou