Star. — London, England, 1813-01-06 00:00:00

l it P .d 3- of Y, a d- v- his F s ure ourselves, that in adverting to them, your Lord- only other : document to be read was the Leasr of well as of the Ptoprhstors, would be unanimous on ship does not mean that the Company should be con- the President of the Board of Controul, received late this point. e ll i e d, or their fate determined, by what those who last night. The letter was then read— Mr. RollEitT Tunneller.: could not, in the situation o ppose their interests choose to advance h alt h ou g h India Board, January 4, 3E113. he held, av o id sa yi ng a f ew w or d s . A s to t h e Ml their reptesentationg appear to have so far influenced Gremvant—l had the honour to receive your portant trust committed to his hands, lie hid exe his Majesty's MinisTers, as to lead them to think that letter cf the 30th ultimo, and proceed to convey to cited it, and should always endeavour to execute it the merchants have a claim to as munch liberty of you the sentiments of his Majesty's Government, as with fidelity. If lie should ultimately secure their trade as t h e y ca n enjoy " without injury to other ini- far as it would seem advisable, under present cir- aPPnibation, he should ad it the ptide and honour portant national interests." In those interests, we m a y cuinstances, to continue the discussion. Of his life__( efeseiende.) A great deal of industry pr esume, are comprehended both the consideration of With respect to your observation, that the repre- . had rife som e yeas b een muc h m i sa ppli e d i n run the pu blic revenue and the maimenance of the East- sentations which induced his Majesty's Government ning down and misrepresenting the conduct of the India c o mpany. But what that extent of trade is to give their opinions upon the subject of the exten- Company. The interests of mankind had been tam e which can be granted with safety to those inte- sion of the Import. Trade have been withheld from pered w ith, and pro m i ses h a d b een ma de, and rests," is still a question undetermined. We confess I the Court of Directors, a n d th a t y our objections to hopes held nut, whi c h cou ld never b e rea li se d. Th e b et t h e regulations contemplated by his Majesty's that extension have not been "adequately answered ;" commercial interest conceived themselves to he suf , t eni n isters, so far as your Lo r d s hip has been pleased you must allow me to avail myself of this occasion fereis ; and what panacea did they hold out for the to explain them to us, appear by no means calculated to apprise you, that although his Majesty's Govern- I restoration of commerce ? It was simply to destroy to remove our fears. The comparative interest which meat has shewn a strong disposition to enter into the I the greatest and oldest commercial establishment in the Public and the Company have in preventing the most frank and unreserved explanations with the i existence ; (eippiatoe) this Company which had so ereugeling of tea, was described in our letter of the j Court of Directors, they have not felt that it was long excited the wonder of mankind, and the jea e9ih of s‘pril ; and though it be true, as your Lord- i . within the range of their duty to eng age in a contro- lousy of our enemies ; this bright jewel of the Bri ship observes, that the stake of the Public in this : yer s y upon the points at issue :—That duty has been , tish empire, which Benaparte so anxiously eddied to elncern is numerically grea t er t h an t hat o f the Corn- ; sufficiently discharged, in stating, for the information deprive us of. He proclaimed that what he wanted ean • y ; y et t he importance of the Company's inferior of the Court of Proprietors, the condition upon which , Was —" ships, colonies, and commerce." Now, if c o te i s , t o them, infinitely greater, than would beto they were prepared to submit a proposition to Par-: Ministers persevere in !heir present intentions,our ships the Public the importance of the loss the revenue • liament for the renewal of the Charter, accompanied (as far as the India trade would be concerned) would m i g ht sustain : because, as matters now stand, the 'by such reasons as a r e c onveye d i n t h e comm u uica- turned into revenue c utte rs a n d sm u gg lin g yes. c e ,neiew have no certain dependence but the China : tions they have authorised me to make. trade. lot resources essential to their subsistence.-1 I can, however, have no difficulty in acquainting We do not the least question, that his Majesty's Mi- you, that the claims of the M erc h ants c on n ec te d with i be 1 seas. Colonies, to b e sure , wou ld b e esta bli s h e d f o r a time, but our te r rit o ri es wou ld b e l os t : an d as to commerce, it would entirely sink to the illicit trade. sisters world be t h oroug hly di s p ose d to frame addi the outports have not been brought before Govern- Our merchants, who now thought only of the gol tional regulations to prevent smuggling tea, should ment by written documents, that they have been den and silver trade of India and China, would soon tense now in contemplation be tried and be found in- urged and discussed at personal conferences with in- . come back to the iron trade of Birmingham and sufficient. But, besides that we extremely distrust dividuals interested in their success, and that you Sheffield. As he conceived the cause of the Company the practicability of preventing smuggling to a large have already been informed of the grounds upon to be just, he felt convinced, that if they were but extent, where ti - ,e temptations would be so great, we , which they were supported ; but that it does not ap- firm, they must finally succeed. He could not, how , must entreat your Lordship and his Majesty's Minis- pear to his Majesty's Government, that you can be ever, avoid remarking, at what period this commer ters seriously to consider what would be the situation warranted in expecting that they should give a more cial revolution was proposed. It was when a bright cf the Cerripenye if they obtained a Charter upon no , particular account of the arguments adduced at star had arisen in the North cf Europe, which pro better terms than those now proposed, and upon trial ' these conferences. : mised to be the harbinger of a general peace. It it Should be found that their commercial income i 1 may add, however, that RS the Merchants and such a hope was realised, what would be the situa failed, arid that their dividend should be unprovided , Manufacturers connected with the out ports, consi- tion of the Company ? When the deliverance of fee, or towered : their stock would immediately fall ; , dering themselves entitled at the expiration of the Europe Was effected, in the first dawn of peace and their credit would be diminished, the currency of j Charter of the East India Company, to carry on t h at general salutation, the India Company would have to their affairs, in their payments particularly, would ; trade from which they had been excluded for a limit- lament its downfall. While all other commercial b e impeded ; general alarm and dissatisfaction in all led time, bad entered into a statement of their case men would be congratulating one another on the re f.:flies connected with this great establishment would jby Petitions presented to P ar liam e n t in th e course of covers , of trade, they alone would be ruined. For be felt ; and there would be a necessity for going to 1 , the last Session, you may obt a in f r om th o se r eco r ds his own part, he felt it individually his duty to say, Parliament again, when evils great, perhaps ivretrie- 1 that further information which you appear desirous that he conceived it would-be much better for them vable, would have been experienced. It is the duty to possess. to wind up their concern, shut up shop in the India o f the Executive Body of the Company to cart y their With regard to those points to which you have House, and every man mind his other affairs, rather views forward to ,such contingencies, and to seek pro- alluded as requiring particular regulation, the Mini- than come forward at the end of a very few years, vision against them : and we must beg leave to add; sters of his Royal Highness the Prince Regent hay- and tell them that it was impossible to go on any thett whatever rights the merchants may claim or the ing signified to you, that consistently with their sense longer. nation be pleased to best o w on them, it cannot be of public duty, they can submit no arrangement to , The Rev. Mr. THIRLWALL spoke for some time equitable to make concessions to them which should Parliament that does not include an extension of the on the number of labourers and clerks employed by destroy the Company, who acquired the Indian Em- Import Trade, and the Court of Directors having, . the East India Company, and the distress which they pine, and who are as much the owners of the chief with the knowledge of their opinions upon that' and their families must feel, if they were driven out seats of European trade in dist empire, as they are I point, by their Resolution of the 18th ult. declined ;of employment. of their freeholds in London. With respect to the to recommend to the Court of Proprietors to agree j Mr. KENNET Barrett observed, that the Charter resort of Europeans to -India, if we do not misunder- I, to such an extension, it wculd seem premature to given to the Company 200 years ago, was for ever, stand the scope of your Lordship's observation, it j enter into details until that question shall have been " unless, the grant should prove prejudicial to these seems to imply that their numbers might be in pro- I finally determined. . realms, and the interests of his Majesty's crown." portion to the export trade. from this country. Li, You are apprised of the disposition of his Majesty's ' Now, he believed that it would not be said, that any indeed, they were to be regulated by this scale, our I Government to adhere to the present system of Ad- prejudice had arisen to these realms from the India apprehensions would be the less ; bat we have no dif- ' ministration in India, and lam not aware, that if Company. His opinion upon the present occasion ecuity in acknowledging, that, in addition to all our I c i rcu m s tances s ho u ld admit of it s c ontin u a n ce, it was, that rather than consent to the trade being ex other 41 - patients against admitting • importations to would be necessary to propose any material ahem. • tended to the out-ports, they had better give up their %he outports, we think that the granting of : this pri- Lion in the existing provisions for carrying it into Charter altogether. In that case they would ote em' vilege eould increase the spirit of r a 5,11 speculation execution, except such as may arise from the open- titled to the value of the territories which they had ,fram Great Britain and Ireland, and thereby the •Mg of the trade. j acquired—of their freeholds in the East, as well as in number of adventurers in -search of fortune in India; The confidence you express in the wisdom and this country,—as well as of their stores. If Govern for it is to be remembered, that those adventurers justice of Parliament, will, I am persuaded, not be ment would pay them a fair value for their territories would naturally seek for new establishments, even dh.appointed ; nor is it to be supposed, that in the and stores, they would do better to give up the Char out of the Company's territories, and there endeavour consideration of this great question (to use your own ter altogeth r. They had as much right to their free to acquire real property. words), " the safety of the British Empire in India, holds in the East as in this country. But, my Lord, this is only one of many points and the British Constitution at home," will be over- Mr. Rosette GRANT could not avoid expressing which require particular regulations ; and, at the looked either by the Legislature or the Ministers of his surprize at the very singular letter with which stage at winch we are now arrived in the negotiation, the Crown. j they had been favoured by one of his Majesty's Mi. we cannot but state to your Lordship the anxious j If the Government of India cannot be carried o n sisters. He was also surprized at finding, that when wish of the Court to be made acquainted with the ' with safety to the Constituti o n, except throu g h the his Majesty's hinderers thought proper to comrnuni whole plan, which his Majesty's Government may intervention of the Company, the propositions of the cafe to them their sentiments, they should not think have it in conternplatiOn to recommend to Parliament Court of Directors, whatever they may be, must un- it necess sty to make any comnomication at all of the for a renewal of the East-India Company's Charter ; conditionally be admitted. r• arguments which had induced them to adopt those including such amendments in the sys eine of the 1 It will be for Parliament to determine whether the sentiments. He did, however, concur with them in Company's territorial Government and administrit- ' nation is i n t hi s respect without an alternative, or ' the hope, that when the East India Company should tiOnt as past experieece may have indicated—the re- ' whether, if a c han g e of system should be rendered throw themselves, and the interests of 50 millions of gulations deemed necessary fo r promotin g the disci- necessary by the decisions of the East India Corn- people in India, on the wisdom and justice of Par pline and efficiency of the Indian army, the amount of pany, measu r es might not be taken for opening the , liament, they would not be disappointed. He was force which his Mejesty may be empowered to main- trade, and at the same time providing such an Ad. - not so much surprised at die tone assumed by the tent in India at the expellee of the Company, and ministration of the Government of India, as mig ht Minister, as by the matter of his communication, . the provisions that m a y b e thought requisit e f or sett- b e f oun d compat ibl e w i t h th e interests and security , " that if you should refuse to accede to those pro. ling the relative powers of the Board of Commissio- . of the BritishConstitution. , posa l3 , it may be submitted to the decis on of Par nets and the Court of Eirecters. Though these to. j • I h a ve the hono ur to b e , Ge n tlemen, your obedient liament, whether an Administration might not be pies were specifically mentioned in the letters from and faithful humble Servant, formed for India of another nature." Now he had un- Lotei Melville to the Chairs, of the enth of Septem- j (Signed) BUCKINGLIASISIIIRE. derstood, that the Ministers, the Parliament, and the bar,' 1808, and the 21st of March, 1812, the Court The Chairman and Deputy-Chairman of the country, bad settled the question long ago. The are still, in great measure, uninformed of the arrange. • • ' - East India Company. Minister had admitted the expediency, but had said meets, in regard to them, which his Majesty's Go- The CHAIRMAN, as this last was a most important that there was a limit to that expediency. Now, as vernment may have i n v i ew to propose. And we doe ment, wished to know it the Court was desirous lie always understood this expediency to be for India entreat, also, that your Lordship will enable us to thaf it should be read a second time ? as well as this country, he could translate the words lay a yma before the C ourt o f Directors, end ultimately the This being accordingly done, •of the Minister upon the present occasion, in no other Proprietors, in a n y s h ape that • • •oa y judge fir, the The CHAIRMAN then stated, that the papers would manner but that there were limits to the expediency information, additional to that of the - be printed, and distributed among the Proprietors in of governing well--(a laush).—But where Was this ready solicited, on which the determination of his the course of to-morrow. He then repeated his wish limit to be found ? Why, in the commercial conve- Majesty's Ministers rests, as to the extension of the j that they would adjeurn, in order to afford time for . nience of the our; ports. They, however, had the trade to the outports, and their intentions upon the I deliberation on a subject of such serious consequences. imperative obligation cast upon them of zealously other parts of the arrangement, to which we have I The Court of Directors wished now, andett all times, watching over the interests and happiness of the po ra,w adverted. The requests we now make, appear to receive information from the observations of so pulation of our territories in India, as well as of their to us the mo re reasona bl e , f rom the weighty inti- enlightened a body as the General Court of Proprie- own commercial concerns. lie wished to know wire. elation conv e y e d i n t h e conc l u di ng part of your tors- The Court of Directors had pronounced no ther his blisjeety's Ministers had weighed the ledger- Lordship's tl•' ie sem s letter. It brings into view (to repeat an opinion upon this letter—but he, as air individual, books of the out-ports, against the Charter of the Corn expression used in our letter of the 15th oe A n • 1 i) would say, that Ire saw no reasoning in it which pany, and the happiness of fifty millions of men. The i " questions of the last imp ortance to t h e safety cl the could induce bins to change the opinion he had al- demand of the Ministers now upon the Company, was " British Empire in India, aud of the British Consti- ready formed. . only another step of that progressive encroachment 4' tution at ironic," This is a solemn subject for the Mr. Ricee said, that circumstances like the pre- which had been pursued for many years, and to which t °tint' y as well as the C' empeny. lf, indeed, it sent must rouse the best feelings of our nature, which they must object somewhere, or lose all. There was o seould ever come under actual dkciissm, we have I would arise naturally from the heart to the head.— a time when the Company had to contend for all ; lirat confidence in the equity and wi-dorn of the na- The Directors had acted with zeal and activity, but now it appeared as if the Government had turned 1 " , that pi ,se • nt cmoors notwithstanding all - • 1.- they v • hich called for the gratitude of the Proprietors at the siege into a blockade. First, they were obliged will - r• .ish to d o t h e Company jeoice, and to guard 1 1 age. He certainly thlt the deepest regret at the UR.. to grant extra tonnage—next to admit private ships all the ot her great interests* which most come into I for ornate turn that their affairs had taken. He —then to allow the general export trade to India 9tiestion. But prepared as v. - i, 'hail be, if forced r thought it inconsistent with the free spirit of the and now they are called upon to give up the import into this situation,Constitte inn that Ministers should attempt to assume also. It was true, that the private adventurers who to maintain the del . his and claims ; i . of our C • onstituents, we rnuA yet express our hope, that ey l aw they such a time. L was with strong feelings of shame would now go forth, would learn, I I that the Company will not be reduced to the hat d al- and indignation that he learned that any Ministers were to be prohibited front trading with China.— tentative, of thus having to contend for all th at i s should dare to nr:tke use of such langu ige in addres- All the general arguments, however, about the im dear to them, or to accept a Charter on term s w hi c h slog their Court of Directors. The danger to the prescriptible rights of British merchants to general will not enable them to execute the part hitherto as- Brut i sh Constitution was such a one as had before trade, the right of locomotion, and all those princieles signed to them in the Indian We have th e h onour to he, my Lord, your Lord- It was almost evident, that if Ministers were to seize it was not to be presumed that they would entirely . sh i p' s most o b e di ent h um bl e S ervants, upon the whole patronage of India, the British Con- r. train from the prohibited trade to China. He was i (Signed) mien !Nous. stitution would be in the mast serious danger. This convinced that a continuation of those encroachments r 110 BERT TIiORNTON. • consideration must necessarily arouse such feelings mast soon deprive the Company of the means raid I-f. D i • -sght }lon. the Earl of B uekinghantsh!re, ace. as it was impossible to avoid giving expression to. & facilities for providing for the internal Goverment . The Cilitut. then informed He hoped that the feeling of the country at large, as of India. It the, this) , were obliged to give it up, MAN the Court, that the in- We Ministers %wild say it %vas a voluntary surrender —4. It was very certain, that the extci ior ftbric nt iht4. power was however left standing, and that no in— struments of war were brought against their walls : if. therefore, the Company suffered it to be undermi ned in this manner, when its fall should come, Mi nisters would say that it was (torn no act of theirs that the building fell from its own weight—that it had collapsed from its own greatness. They might speedily be ruined, with all the exterior marks tef greatness about them; or, as hid been well expressed by an eloquent Member of Parliement, they might be " checkmated with all their pieces upon the bieird." He thought at would not be improper now to r e mind Ministers of the services which the Company had refs. dered to the people of this country, as well es of India. He had, to be stile often heard it stated, that the Come pany had no regard either for this country d: toe India ; and that all they had done which was praise worthy, was the effect of mere accident, or of the genius of some individuals accidentally employed in their service. It Appeated to him, however, rAthee hard that the company should be reproached for mo tives purely interested, by the advocates of those most di:inks-triad personages, the ptivete traders, laugh). —lt should he considered, through what times of peril the Company had prtseiv_el this trade to :he country, and raised this empire ; through all tile mults, confusion, and evils of the civil war, thus :r .e was still upheld. When the hesulities of France w • directed, by her ablest men, ageinst those teiesessieus, the Company knew how to defend them. W..s it no praise to the Company, that they secured the rzspect of all the people of India ? He might be told, that there WAS no merit in this, and that it WAS ail actisLot. —He would ask, however, was it ac ideal that sent Lord Cive over to India, in the quality of a pecitie cator ? Was it by accident that he went over an th at character, or - was lie not specially chosen for the pus.. pose by a triumphant majority of vete' in thatCourti In alluding to another great name, and dear to them all (Lord Cornwallis), he would ask, was it accident that made him propose those acts fur the perpetual settlement of India ? Greet as the mind of that Nobleman, and capable as it was, of originating the most important things, still it would be found on looking over the records of their Court, that all those regulations which constituted the great Charter, and the Bilt of Rights for the people of India, did not spring up from accident, but from the deep and anxious deliberations of the Court of Directors, And their minute and positive instructions transmitted to India. Of those great measures which had marked the conduct of the illustrious names he had mention. ed, the first movement came from within those walls, which were now decorated with their effigies.— (Mr. Robert Grant here alluded to their statues in the Hall, and the allusion was received with great applause.) And was the system which had afforded protection and happiness to so many mil lions of men now to be made the sport of commercial experiment ? He thought that the Constitution of India could not be destroyed, without giving a se vere blow t. the Constitution of this country. If the people of this country felt so much alive to Any thing . which could endanger the r Constitution, they should reflect what it was to unsettle I overthrow the Constitution under which India had I , ved content and tranquil far so many years. 'll it Constitution had also existed for many years : and, although it ni;glat not have arrived to theoretic perfecth;n, yet it had appeared well adapted to the particular circurn s.Ances, and the particular nature of the population in India. As this was a question of lie and death to the India Company, it was not surprising that they were not contented by mere (Nein:eat remedies and conic:ural safeguards. (iiNdeer ). Amidst the effu sions of provincial wit, he had teen it often sett d, that the arguments of the Company were merely ad aiirsthorali.m. With tut desire or hope of rival. ling their wit, he should gravely and s. riously say. that his argument to the people of this country should be ad miscriconliant. But it was not for the India Company alone that he would wish to move their compassion, but principally for the many millions under its Government • in the East. He would even add, that some compassion was due to those private Adventure's who were now on the point of ruining themselves by their new specu lation. He felt that for the interest of the he. plc of England, as well as Hindustan, the gteat system which had so long been found successful, should not now be put to hazard from the mere rage of commer— cial speculatien. He should intreat the Pediament, and the country, not to be more influenced by the din and clamour at home, than by the profound still ness and tranquillity which has happily existed for so many years throughout our vast empire in ti indostan. (Great amlaure.) If those considerations were fairly weighed by the people of this country, and by Par li :meet, he should have no fears for tie anal testa. [The speech of this Gentleman was delivered with gteat eloquence, and, on his sitting down, the ape plause lasted for some minutes.] It was then moved by a Proprietor, That the Meet. tug should adjourn to Tuesday the 9:11. Mr. Kese er Smelt moved, as an amendment, a Resolution, conveying tie approbation of the Court of the watchfulness and zeal displayed by the Court of Directors, and concluded with a vow of adjourn ment. Mr. Huste objected to the amendment so movel Tic thought th it as it was expressly uoderse.od, th it they weie to come to no decision !heti upon the ie forrna6cti laid before them, it would be quite pre. mattue to return thanks to the Ceutt of Diteccure for their conduct, before the Plop:Lew% had time to consider the papers ssiti.:ll had thi., day been read to them, and to determine whether their conduct was deserving of praise or not. He considered that the real qtastion had been entirely depined from. There was only one point at issue now between them and the Government, and that was, whether they we uld agree to the cendiii ins of Admiei-tratien respecting the imports being allowed :ieuther pot is besides th t of London ? As it appeared to hit's Hitt the was th. only question, he could not but think it had been very wren departed front. lie must say, that he did nt t view the letter of Lord Buckinghamshire iu the seine light that it had appeared to other Gen tlemen. He could not but s my, that when the Directors clw. It at such length, to Ministers, about revenue, and the British Coosttleion, they appeared to hint !either to deserve the little ra d e that they had got tti , on that point.—[He was here interrupted bye