Star. — London, England, 1820-09-19 00:00:00

upon every occasion where the national voice was raised ? Was it not-an. excuse ready at all times to act in direct contradictiOn to the wishes of the coun try ?—(Hear, hear). —But the motion was not on the surface ; the feeling was deep And intense, and it sprang from a love of justice and a hatred of oppres s sion ; from sentiments that had always distinguished and done honour to the inhabitants of these king doms, and which it was the duty and interest of the Government rather to cherish than to destroy. Next, could the King (if his name might be mentioned) be benefited by perseverance ? Unquestionably not, for it was now said that the Bill was not for the re lief of his Majesty, since only that part of it would pass which degraded the Queen, and not that part by which she was to be divorced. What, then, could be its object? Suppose the Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite should be cursed with the accomplishment of their desires in this respect, in what situation would the Illustrious Parties be placed? The only result could be, that the Queen would be proved to be a strumpet, and the King—what he would not mention in that Muse !—(Cheers). Who, then, would be the gainers, for even Ministers themselves must be severe sufferers ? Had the Noble Lord and his col leagues taken into consideration what must in any case be the event ? Would they ever be able to carry their Bill into execution ? If they consulted the opi nions and feelings of the lower orders,• whom they were so much in the habit of despising, they would fin&that it would be impossible. But if, as the Prime Minister had stated, one part of the measure was to be rejected, why not throw it -out, altogether ?—why was one clause to be kept for the sole purpose of de grading the King, the Parliament, and the country, under pretence (and pretence only) of degrading the Queen ? In Goo's name let a stop be put to all such ruinous proceedings! What had appeared during the inquiry ? Supposing it true, was it to the honour of the Nation? And what well-wisher to the cha racter of Great Britain in the eyes of foreign nations would not gladly witness the termination and aban donment of the whole? The degradation was not merely at home, but abroad—it was here, these, and everywhere : our Ambassadors, our Officers, and our Lawyers, had become spies, eves-droppers, and su borners of peijury !—(Continued cheers). At last, to complete the picture, our Parliament, the Peers of England—the representatives of noble families, and the descendants of heroic ancestors—the pillars of the state—were sent to pry inrofoul clothes-bags, and to pore over the contents of chamber-atensils pealed cheering).—Was such the legitimate duty of a Peer of Parliament ? Was this the mode in which the law-makers of the greatest country in the world should be employed ? Was it fit that the Commons s could follow such an example: Was this House, is solemn mockery, to sit down to the examination of charges rejected with. disgust and detestation by the whole body of the people ? He was not now speaking on behalf of the King, the Queen, or the Nation ; but, even if it were severe upon her Majesty to stop at this moment, before the opening of her defence, he still should . say " Stop, and reject this most infamous Bill." At the same time he must say, that he did not think the Queen would suffer; it was very well for her Learned Counsel to implore a continuation, for he knew how everything in the end would re dound to the disgrace and confusion of her prosecu tors; but enough had now been done to shew that the preamb7e of the Biil hail not the slightest foun dation, supported as it had been by documents in the green bag, unn wiry to be submitted to any man of common sense, common decency, or common ho nesty !—(Hoar, hear). The national feeling was ob vious from the precautions taken against it. The Lo-ds had literally hedged and paled themselves in by a standing army ; and in the same way the Com mons, he supposed, would be required to put them 'elves in garrison, under the _protection of the mili tary, until, at last, the sentence was verified—obses saw curiam et clausent aratis senalum. What a figure must England cut in the eyes of Europe, when her Representatives should be obliged to fence them selves round with brist:ing bayonets, because there was no sympathy between them and the people ! (11ear, hear). The best mode therefore seemed, un der all the circumstances, to be, to adopt some such motion as was offered by a Noble Lord at the last Meeting—that his Majesty would be pleased to pro rogue Parliament, and thereby suspend at once all proceedings against the Queen. There was one ques tion he should like to ask beline he sat down—and that was, who was to pay for all this . ?—(Cheers). He supposed that the Nation must pay (for he did not imagine that the Noble Lord an 4 his colleagues would be-very willing to bear the disbursement); and then arose the inquiry, what it paid for? Did it pay for honour or glory ? No : it was compelled to pay for that which was contrary to its most delibe rate wishes and most valuable interests. At least, it was reasonable to tell it how much it would be called upon to pay ; but even this was denied, tho . Minis ters were very ready to disclose how much money had been paid to the Queen: they determined to say nothing of the heavy charges incurred by .the prose cutors. There was another reason for abandoning the Bill, which he should have mentioned before had it occurred to him ; and it was this—that the House of Lords were not acting as Judges and Jury, but as prosecutors. On the first day the Attorney-General being asked, stated that he appeared by order of their Lordships; and, if so, it was not easy to know how they could order him to attend to support the Bill, unless they were its prosecutors. This was another deformity to be added to this monstrous tribunal. Suppose this measure were at once rejected, would Parliament be disgraced? If it were, it would be the doing of the Noble Lord : he had heaped the dis grace upon the Nation, and he (nr. Hobhouse), feel tog no respect for the Noble Lord, had no difficulty in speaking freely what he thought of his conduct. The whole fabric had broken down under those who b a d heaped together the frail materials, and it was mere folly not to be taught by experience. He could not divine a reason why Ministers should object to a prorogation, which would save them an immense quantity of trouble, anxiety, and disappointment. A great deal hadobeen said, indeed, about not being in timidated by the people, but he could see no disgrace in being taught by experience—in withdrawing what was most detrimental—in being intimidated from doing what was wrong, unjust, and injurious. On these grounds he should move, as an Amendment, 4g That an hankie Address be presented to his Ma- ~~ J jesty, Trim, to prorogue Parliament; and this' House and the country, it would not; and,.-con7 therely to prevent the further - progress of measures ,vinced that it ought he should now sup port the against his Queen" Amendment p ro b y his Honourableitituend the I After a pause, the SPEAKER put the question, Member. for Westminster. when— The ATTORNEY-GENERAL rose With much . Sir ROBERT WILSON said he was not aware this warmth to repel the charge brought against him by Amendment was to be moved, nor was he aware . Of the Honourable Member for Shrewsbury. He had in the dignified silence which the other side had deter-- conducting the case entrusted to him at the bar of mined on. They might call it dignified, but he did the House of Lords, only acted in the conscientious not believe such conduct would satisfy the people. discharge of his duty; had he acted Otherwise than He should, although he had no hopes of carrying he had done, he shbuld have felt he was guilty - of a the Amendment, feel it his duty to state his opinion dereliction.of that duty. With respect to the Hon. I freely. He had attended daily in the House of Lords, Gentleman's opinidis; he should always feel himself and had heard the evidence, and had now no doubts disgraced by any approbation of his conduct from 'left ; he was able to judge for himself, and so judg- that Hon. Gentleman, and, on the contrary, he should - 'I ing, had no doubt, or any hesitation in declaring his consider his censure an honour—( Hear, hear). —He opinion, on his honour and conscience, before GOD, should not, however, suffer himself to be betrayed I that the whole proceeding against her Majesty ori- into the same error into which the Hon. Gentleman ginated in a foul conspiracy !—(Hear, hear).—He had fallen,. namely, the making observations on evi was aware these were bard words, but he was bound dente, and on a case not before the House. to speak his sentiments, and would repeat he believed Mr. HUME denied that his Honourable and gal the whole proceedings originated in a foul conspi.... lant Friend was open to a charge of having made an lacy, the foundation of which was laid at Hanover. ex-parte statement. What his Honourable Friend had Who had not heard of Baron Ompteda and his prat- stated was known to all the world. He would ask tices, his breaking open locks and stealing letters; who had been guilty of ex-park statements, and & and who could read the evidence, as taken at the Bar prejudging a case? it was those who had, previous to' of the House, and not see that there was a conspi- Liquiry, condemned her Majesty—who had refused to racy ? One of the witnesses examined there, Sacchi, insert her name in the Liturgy—who had refused or Sacchini, stated, that he was receiving 70 Louis-. her a passage to this country, and who, since her ar d'ors from the Austrian Government, and that this rival, had treated her as a convicted criminal—who was all his income. He had a letter now in his had prejudged the case upon ex-parte statements. pocket, stating, that this person, who stated his in-' He must agree with his Honourable Friend, that the come at little more than fifty pounds a year, was Attorney-General had disgraced himself; he meant living in this country, keeping a servant, and paying not to use the expression in a personal sense; he five pounds a week for his board only. So the mas- meant, that he had disgraced himself by a statement ter of the polacre was kept here, and receiving £1,500 in his opening, which be had not proved in evidence. --oa sum fully equal to £5,000 in his own country. How had he crated tocharge her Maiesty with living Was this a remuneration suited to a sailor, whilst the in adultery six years; and then only prove her having Prime Cardinal of Rome had an income of not more done so three years ?—(A laugh).—He was glad he than £12,000? Would witnesses he wanting, if they had made this slip, as it gave him the opportunity of were so well paid ? The house at Milan was a ren- again repeating, that the Attorney-General bad stated dezvous for discarded servants, where every-one who facts in his opening which he had not - even attempted would come. and say anything against their Royal to prove. He had heard talk of partialitrobut he Mistress was sure of being well paid. He would believed partiality was principally exercised against again repeat his belief that the whole charge was a her Majesty. He had now a letter in 'his pocket, on foul conspiracy, in which his Majesty had been be- the authenticity of which lie believed he could rely, trayed, and the Queen insulted. His Majesty had which stated the difficulty Mr. Henry, her Majesty's been deceived as to the evidence which was to b e Agent, had in obtaining permisfion for her Majesty's brought forward, and her Majesty had been most witnesses to come to this country; and stating, that, grossly insulted by examinations to subjects the n:ost by the interference of Colonel Brown, four witnesses disgusting, disgraceful, and improbable, and in no .at least,'out of twenty-four, had been prevented from way whatever connected with the case. If the House coming over. He had further been informed, that should ever be insulted by the Bill being introduced, Razzelli, one of the most active witnesses against her he gave notice he would oppose it in every stage, Majesty, had been dispatched to Italy on a mission. until it should finally meet the fate it merited. • Under these circumstances, where did partiality lie? Dr. PHILLIMORE was surprised at the speech of It had been said, that morality and State policy de- 1 the lion. Member who had just sat down. The manded this inquiry. He denied both, and he would' gallant General had drawn the House into an e.r- further declare, in the face of all the Bishops, that parte statement this night on what had passed at she this proceeding would do more to demoralize the Bar of the other House, and had, with a fore-know- People and degrade Royalty, than all the blasphe ledge which he alone could possess, declared an opi- mous' pamphlets and seditious meetings which had nion on the whole case, though only one side had existed for years past. Ile trusted the promoters of been heard—(hear, hear).—He had been most re- this proceeding own ld be impeached before the House. luctant to say a word on this subject, but he had of Commons. The law should be equal, and why been forced into it by the gallant General, and he should a poor weaver be hanged, and a Prime Mi must declare his disieut from the doctrines held by nister escape?—(A laugh).—He hoped the Bishops the g.illant General. He should feel it his duty to would consider the situation in which the Church. vote against the Amendment. Ile was most anxious stood, or 'rather, on which their authority rested. her Majesty s hould - have justice done her ; and, not- Scotland was as religious and moral as England; yet withstanding what had been said by the gallant Ge- they did without Bishops or any such expense!—(A neral, he had no doubt but that illustrious Assembly laugh).—He could not agree to the proposed Amend (the other House of Parliament) would decide with ment; because by doing so they would deprive her justice; and he had the fullest cohviction, the House Majesty of the opportunity of defending herself. He of Commons would aet on the same principle, if the wished the inquiry to proceed, and to have Lerd question should come before them. Stewart, Mr. A'Court, and other Ambassadors and Mr. BENNETT felt it his duty to state his opinion Ministers, called and examined, to shew how this on this proceeding, which was a continuation of a case against her Majesty had been got up. system long pursued by his Majesty's Government, Lord CASTLEREAGH could not suffer thikques and which had the effect of bringing all the establish- tion to go to a division without adverting to the nients of the country into contempt ; this was su- temper and feeling with which Gentlemen had dis premely so, for he had heard the Prime Minister of cussed this question on the other side of the House. the Country, in the other House of Parliament, say, The vein of argument which they had this day that although her Majesty might have so degraded adopted, .deciding on a case not yet,before them, herself as to be unworthy longer to continue Queen and on a question on which, as yet, they had not heard Of the country, yet she *as still worthy to remain the a single tittle of evidence, shewed how well quali wife of the Sovereign—(Hear, hear).—Was such doe_ fled they were to become hereafter Judges in that trine ever heard ? Again, his Honourable Friend case. Although the question was not now pr o pe r ly ho last addressed the House, had described this as before the House, yet, in consequence of what had an ex-parte statement. Ile would ask, what was the, fallen from several Gentlemen on the other side, he whole proceeding but an ex•parte statement? Was'. felt it his duty to offer some observations in reply to such a proceeding ever known or witnessed even in them. lie denied the assertion of the Member for the days of the Star Chamber, or even in that Court Westminster, that the House had decided against in u hich Bradshaw presided, and which took away this inquiry. On the contrary, this was at least the the life of the Sovereign? Did it ever before occur third time the House had adjourned to await the that ex pare evidence against the accused should be proceedings of the other House. Nor was the Hon. sent into the world unanswered for weeks ? and such and Gallant General quite correct in the view he had evidence, so disgusting, so abominable, so disgrace- taken of the proceeding. He must be allowed to say, ful to the Learned Gentleman who had brought it that the Hon. and Gallant General's pledges to op forward, and ho had even opened disgusting and pose the Bill in every stage, would not dispose of t, degrading circumstances, reflecting on her Majesty, in the other House of Parliament: The Peers would which he had not afterwards dared even to attempt if they chose, notwithstanding the threats of the Ho to prove ? He would repeat, it was evidence which mutable and Gallant General, send down the. Bill disgraced the Honourable Gentleman,' and those to them, and they would afterwards dispose of it as. under whose instructions he acted. Ile could not they considered right. The Hon, and Gallant Ge look at this evidence and not fail to compare it with neral might, if he pleased, oppose the Bill in every the conduct cf that heroic woman against *horn it stage. He might oppose it on its being first brought was levelled. Was it ever known, that a guilty per- down; how far he would be discharging his consti son, who had the opportunity offered of isle/Nog tntional duties in so acting with such a Bill, would punishment, and of being declared innocent, should be another question, but the Hon. and Gallant Ge- - insist on inquiry, trial, and investigation, at the risk neral's threats would not divert the House from pm.' of conviction and degradation? Yet such, if we could suing the true line of its duty. Much had been said believe the evidence, had been the conduct of her of an existing conspiracy on this subject, yet it was Majesty. He agreed with his Honourable and Gal- urged that nothing had been positively proved against lant Friend, that this was a gross conspiracy ; and her Majesty. If such a conspiracy had existed, would with respect to the Court where the inquiry had been there have been any difficulty in g etting persons to instituted, their Lordships bad assumed a judicial swear to one fact as well as another , —(Hear, hear ! ) character, and he should feel himself at liberty to But even supposing such a conspiracy to exist, Geis comment on their proceedings withers much freedom tlemen would not convince the House or the world 'as he should on any judicial proceeding_ in the Court at large of that fact, by thus eagerly leaping to it of King's Bench or Common Pleas. He considered and adopting such an opinion without proof— it as the worst Court which existed in this country, (Hear!) —By doing, so, whether they were the friends As regarded judicial proceedings. He believed this or the partizans of the Queen, or political or legal was the first time that Judges had been seen cheering advisers, they were injuring her Majesty's cause, and witnesses, and declaring a disposition to believe only rendering their own testimony of no use—(Hear!) one side. This was the first time that Judges had not even of a feather's weight in the scale—(Hear, been seen brow-beating and putting down Counsel— hear ! )—By acting thus, in adopting an opiniors (Hear, hear).—He begged pardon, not potting the without proof or foundation, they displayed a want Counsel . down, for his Honourable and Learned - of judgment, a want of justice, and a lack of abili- Friend was not mobil deterred in the discharge of his ties as judges—( Hear, hear ! )—lf a conspiracy ex duty, but endeavouring, though unsuccessfully, to isted, the inquiry was the more necessary. No man put down the Counsel of the accused party. Such could feet more anxious than himself to fathom it to had been the result of the judicial proceedings in the the bottom; and this could only be done by investi- Lords, in a Court consisting of 200 Judges! It yet Ration —yet the Gentlemen who talked so much of remained to be seen how a Court, consisting of 600 its existence, at the same time exclaimed, let inquiry Judges, would conduct the case, should it come be- proceed no further. Much had been said by the gal fore them. He trusted, imwever, for the honour of taut General add the Hon. Member for Shrewsbury of . _ ~....~, Nit • • - ' I the ferment existing out of doors. If such ferment did exist, their conduct was not calculated to allay it. He was as regardful of the voice of the People as any man could be ; but he never would be diverted from the path of his. duty by any public clamour; and he was convinced, if any such should arise, tiz House would have firmness and resolution enough to meet it. If there was such a conspiracy as that al ludedto, in the name of Goo let it be sifted. If it should turn omit that a number of persons; collec:e't from various parts of Europe, bad possessed suffi cient art to deceive those Agents who had been seat out by Government to make inquiries (and indivi duals more honoui able could not have been selected), that was an additional reason for proceeding in the investigation. The gallant General, in his military judicial knowledge, could not have forgotten that he may hereafter be called on to become a Judge in this important question; and if he is so eager in the pm; suit of justice, how happens it that instead of puff ing letters from his pocket, and reading them whepi they could be no evidence, he did not hand acre over to her Majesty's Legal Advisers, who would have made the most judicious use of them. His thus coming forward with garbled statements, proved hire rather a partisan than an impartial Judge—(Heart. The gallant General had described this as a Hano verian conspiracy, and then adverted to the thrice told tale of fie Baron Ompteda, and the stealing of letters. •If that story was true, the Baron's conduct towards the Illustrious Individual in question %Vac most unjustifiable. As soon as it came to his (Lord Castlereagh's) knowledge, lie instituted inquiry to ascertain the truth correctly. The person in the Ha noverian Government to whom he applied was Count Munster: a Nobleman of higher honour did not mist. The Count made every possible inquiry, and returned for answer, that he could trace the story t ,, no respectable source--( Hear, hear)Another Honourable Gentleman had talked of impediments being put in 'the way of her Majesty's getting over her witnesses. Now certainly the' Honourable Gen tleman mho said this was not one of her Majesty's Legal Advisers, for if he had, he would have de clared himself perfectly satisfied on this head, as he would have known that his Majesty's Government had pledged themselves to become a mere machine to forward hey Majesty's wishes and desires on this head. Some delay had been experienced at first ; but this was a - delay, arising out of the forms of office, and it was remedied as soon as possible-- (Hear, hear).--If Honourable Gentlemen thought this inconvenience was only felt on one side, they were much mistaken. He did not mean to state o,s as a subject - of complaint ;on the contrary, he vas convinced it arose out of the anxious , desire of the Govern:bents on the Continent to do justice to both parties. He knew there was a disposition in the minds of some Gentlemen to believe that this Go vernment could over-ride all the rules and regula tions of the Powers on the Continent ; but he could assure those Gentlemen that such was not the case. The Attorney-General had considered some docu mentary evidence, which he understood was to be obtained at Milan, as necessary to his case, and it was applied for but it then appeared the document in question could not be produced without an order from Vienna. An order was obtained ; hut, on its arrival at Milan, it appeared necessary to dispatch the document to .Vienna, to have these extracts made ; and these extracts were afterward 'sent to Milan to be certified there, and ultimata) , t:e certified copy of this important•document arrive! in London some days. after the Attorney-General had closed his case-=‘Loud cries of Heai-, hear:. AU the knowledge -which experience had taught them, he (Lord Castlereagh) immediately.eommuni cated to her Majesty's - Counsel, Dr. Lushington: and every assistance possible had been given to her Majesty to aid her in m a ki ng h er. defeilee: With respect to the question of adjournment ' , it had already been three times decided; and diet-feline had as often declared that, in justice to her Majesty, pro rogation could not take place. It should also be re collected that, at a time not long gone by, his Ma jesty's Government was most anxious to.. avoid this disgusting inquiry. At that time, however, Hon. Gentlemen opposite were continually taunting them, and calling on them to produce their charges against her Majesty, if they had any. It was most unfor tunate, but Gentlemen on the oppositelidebever felt in unison with him. As soon as the charges were produced the cry was changed, and they were new become eager to have them withdrawn. He trusted, however, that public feeling was correct, and that the great body of the people were satisfied that ample justice would be done to the Illustrious Per sons concerned in this inquiry. He was well aware there was a party in the country, but he trusted they were neither numerous nor respectable; the object of these men was to subvert the Constitution, and to promote that object they were awake to embrace every opportunity of public calamity and distress.— A mutiny in the fleet ; the diStress of the country, from long protracted ,war; and lastly, the present calamitous event, have all, at different times, been made a subject with these individuals. He WAS ready to allow much to the national feeling, and to that generous delusion which called gn the Public to support a female under accusation. But he could not but see and regret that the mischievous spirit to which he had alluded was busily at work ; and he cautioned Gentlemen to look how they acted ; their intentions might be pure, but they' would lend them selves to the purposes of those who sought to inflame the country. Whatever might be the dangers or ti.e perils that presented themselves, the House, he was sure, would act firmly to promote the great cause of justice, to uphold its own character •*d to give to the Illustrious Person accused t h e fullopportanity of defence--2(-Hear). Mr. CREEVEY said he also should state why he agreed with the Honisurable Member for 'Westminster in the AmendmetitTwiliCh he had , moved. He could not agree that the proceinilings which were now car ried on inthe other-Millie did not form a fit subject foi discesiion at that moment. He had known no public question that had ever arisen of livater im portance than whether the Bill pending igainst her Majesty should be allowed to proceed? and he knew no other Mode of bringing that question) into discus sion, and getting an opinion on it, than by such motion as that of the Honourable Member for West minster. On a former occasion, when the Honour able Member for Cambridgeshire had made a similar preposition, he bad determined to support it; but the Couwei : --,