Star. — London, England, 1812-03-17 00:00:00

I r PARLI4MENTART PRO,CEEDINGS. HOUSE OF LORDS, MARCH 16. Their met at about three o'clock, when, canforma lity to a e l.. = iPs onal arrangement made on Friday last, the fur. tiler consideration of the important Roxburgh Cause was de- I erred till to-morrnw. The consideration of the claims of Mr. Barnewell to the Irish Peerage of Kingsland was postponed till Wednesday next. The Bishop of MEATH took the oaths and his seat. Mr. JOHNSON, front the Officu of the Irish Secretary of State, rrewuttd Papers, which were ordered to lie on the 'f able. STATE OF THE NATION. Eari GROSVENOR gave notice of his intention to submit to their Lordships a motion for going into a Committee on the State nt the Nation. i 1 motion of considerable importance was fixed tor Thursday next, and one of still greater importance for the lath of April, when the Petition of the Irish Catholics was to be brought under their consideration ; of which Petition, if the Prayer was not granted, the consequence, he apprehended, would be little short id rehelllon. He was inclined to wait the event of that discussion, before he came forward with his own motion : a motion which was loudly called for in the present discouraging and distressed situation of the country, and the disjointed and distracted state of the Councils of Government. He would not name spy particular day, but content himself with the general notice, that he intended soon te submit a motion on the btate of Alt Nation. GRANT TO PORTUGAL. The Order of the Day having been read for the House to take into consideration the Message of the Prince Regent, desiring them to concur in enabling him to grant the usual supply to Portugal, for the support of her army, , The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, that in calling the attention of the House to this subject, he should not feel it necessary to take up much of their Lord 4hips' time. He conceived, naturally enough, that as the measure now proposed was no new one, the only feeling . *.with regard to it would be, that the House owed the fulfilment of it to itself ; that it owed it to an ancient and honourable Ally, who had stood bp us in the most arduous and trying circum. stances ; apd that the House ought to afford it the ricore readily, as that assistance which this country had already lent to Portugal, had not been bestowed is vain. One point on whi:h the opposition to this might turn, as on former motions on the same sub ject, would be "the impracticability of effecting the end proposed by this measure. No one could say, that looked at the history of this country, that in such circumstances as Europe is at present placed, the de fence 9f Portugal was not most essential to the safety of ibis country. They had now had sufficient expe rience on this subject to know, dist the system pur sued by Lord Wellington was sufficient to defend Portugal from the French. Another question might swise, how far in our endeavours to protect Portugal from invasion we bad been assisted in those efforts by hereelf? The answer to that was, the number of troops which she had brought into the contest, when 4 was well known that Portuguese troops (of whom it had been said, that they might do to garrison places cf strength, but could never be brought to ef fectual service In the field) ? under British Officers, hadshewn themselves capable of facing with honour an 4 advantage to themselves and their allies, the proudest battalions of France, commanded by her most distinguished Officers. His Lordship instanced The conduct of the Portuguese troops at Barrosa ; and, indeed, wherever they had been brought into action, their conduct had been that of well.disciplined and gallant toldiers. Many Officers who had served In Portugal, had formerly declared it to be their opi nion, thsit no effectual assistance could be expected to be furnished by England in the way of levies.— That opinion had also been adopted by many Mem- tiers of that House ; but those Officers had since, most honourably to themselves, acknowledged their mistake ; and the efforts of the Portuguese, in this way, would chew what might yet be effected by the I pations of Europe in general, if they would but arouse from their lethargy. In stating the particular and numerous instances of the valour and conduct of the Portuguese, he felt that he should be unnecessarily wasting the time of the House ; but these points, he must contend, were completely established, namely, that we had effectually defended Portugal ; and that from the Portuguese army and Government we had received every assistance in their power to afford us. —When they looked at the antiquity of the alliance between this country and Portugal, added to the other circumstances which he had just mentioned, he wassonfident they would be found enough to hinder any one from opposing this grant. Their Lordships were aware that in consequence of the removal of the Court of Lisbon to the Brazils, and the long con tinuance of the French in Portugal, that the finances of that cbuntry had fallen into decay, which rendered it necessary to afford them this assistance. But the Bouse would be greatly deceived if it thought that the subsidy granted. last year by this country was sufficient to support the military force ot Portugal, for they had themselves added £1,800,000 to it, for the maintenance of their army. His Lordship then concluded by moving—a That an humble Address should be presented to the Prince Regent, assuring him, that the House would concur in enabling him to fulfil the proposed grant to Portugal." Lend GROSVENOR said, that he could.not help rising to offer a few observations on this sub ject; and, if he did 'not oppose the motion, still he wished it not to be understood, that be abstained from doing so in consequence of his agreeing in the gene ral policy of the war in Spain and Portugal, with that divided and distracted Government, which had so tong, for the misfortune of this country, been in power. He must, however, bear his tribute of ap plause to the valour and skill of those distinguished officers and men, who had managed that war.— He blained, however, the measures adopted by the Government at home. Were we not in possession of Portugal four years ago, at the time of the uator tunate Convention of Cintra ? Were we not in quiet possessie,n of that country when Sir J. Moore, to the destructiOn of himself and great part of his Army, was ordered to match nearly into the centre of Spain? And what had been our conduct during those pe riods was well known. France was in possession cf the capital ot Spain, and of the strong parts of that country—and what had been done, with an Army of 'sixty thousand men in Portugal, besides Spaniards who were ready to join us ? Would the country be sitisfied, without sonic gieater efforts being made, with such ample means, than the tikiiig of a solitary f , rtregs—fiewever brilliant and honourable to our arms it Their Lordships, and die Country, would not be satisfied Witln,t . some greaten effort being tra,ie to terminate at once the fate of Spaiu—to tee winate at ante the power of Bonaparte. Unhei tkeir Lordships would encourage some noblor and bolder efforts in this cause the country would alter its opi- Limb which it had hitherto held on this subject. He had thought that when the Portuguese were com pletely relieved from the oppression of the French Army, they would have been able to have raised suf ficient supplies themselves to pay their troops ; but that not being the case, he could not help consider ing this grant as giving Ministers still farther power of continuing that dreadful system of war which they had carried on so long. If the Spanish, nation were for us, our assistance might be of essential service to them, and ought to be granted to them; but if they were against us, and willing to bow their necks to the Conquetor, vain would be all the efforts we could make for them. He, however, would not oppose the motion. The Earl of DARNLEY said, that the honour of the country was pledged to this gran:, and, of course, if it were withheld, that honour would be compro mised. He, therefore, would not oppose the motion ; at the same time, he must express his disapprobation of the general line of policy pursued by Ministers during the war in the Peninsula. The question was then put and carried nem. Adjourned. • HOUSE OF COMMONS. Lord CA sr f.CRYAGH took the oaths and h•s seat for Plympton, The Committee of Ways and Means was postponed till Wed nesday. The Marine Mutiny Bill was read a third time, on the motion of Mr. CROKER, and passed. Mr. W. POLE gave notices 9f motions for three Bills . the first to empower the Coadjutors of Bishops and Archbishops in Ire land, to perform certain duties; the second, to enable the Wives and Children of Soldiers on foreign service :o return home; and the third, to amend the Irish Militia ►aws. The Royal Woods and Forests Bill, and the Members' Oaths Bill, were read a second time, and ordered to be committed ter to-morrow. The bill for preventing the granting of °Sees in Reverhion, passed through the Committee, and the Report was ordered to be taken into consideration to-morrow. _ _ The Indemnity Bill was read a third time and passed. On the motion of Mr. ROSE, leave was given to bring in a Bill for prohibiting the intercourse between Jamaica and certain parts of the island of St. Domingo. Mr. ROSE also moved for and ob•hlned leave to bring in a Bill for allowing the importation of the produce of the other West India Islands, into the island of Bermuda, by British ships as also tor allowing the said Colonial produce tube exported from the said Island to the United States of America, in American ships, under certain regulations. Mr. RODE also moved for, and obtained leave to bring in a Bill, for permitting the Importation of certain foreign gouts into Canada from the United States, either by internal navigation, or by land. Mr. W. FITZGERALD asked whether the Irish Government had come to any Reso:ution respecting the stopping of the Dis tillation from Grain in that country, in consequence of the high price of Grain and Provisious from the great exportation of those articles? After a few words in answer from the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, he gave notice of a motion on this subject on Wednesday. THE PRINCE REGENT'S MESSAGE. The House having resolved itself into a Commit tee of Supply, Lord CASTLEREAGH rose, and said that he conceived that it would be unnecessary for him to trespass at any length upon the House to induce them to agree to the motion that it was his duty to submit to them. The grounds upon which Parliament had been originally called upon to assist the exertions of Portugal were so fresh in the recollection of the House that he hoped thst there was now no occasion for any extended arguments to restate them to the House.— If in former times, and before we had any experience of the exertions that Portugal was capable of making, and willing to make, Parliament was convinced that it was bound in liberality to vote ' a sum of money for the defence of Portugal, and through Portugal for the defence of the Spanish Peninsula, he hoped, that after the experience we now had of the efficacy of the supplies that 11.1 d formerly been granted, there could be now no objection to a grant similar to that of last year. He thought, indeed, that the question was now drawn within a very narrow compass, and that it was impossible to object to the proposed grant, ex cept on one of the two propositions which he should state. He thought the objection must be either on the principle, that to grant money to a foreign nation was a thing in itself so fundamentally wrong, that no circumstances could justify it ; or else, that the situation of affairs in the Peninsula was so hopeless, that notwithstanding . the brilliant successes which our arms had been attended with, and the faith of Parlia ment pledged to support the cause of the Peninsula, it would be a fruitless waste of money to proceed any farther. It was possible that there might be persons who, viewing the subject in one of those lights, would think it right to give no support to, or what would be the same thing, to withdraw our army from For- tugal. He could not conceive any other grounds : upon which a grant similar to that of last year could be resisted ; and he hardly expected to hear any ob jections of that nature in that House. Last year, when there was by no means the same proof of the efficacy of this assistance to Portugal that there was, at present, although many Gentlemen expressed ob-- jections to the principle, jet when it came to the vote the question was agreed to without a division, Me' therefore had a strong hope, that to mark the sense of the House of the gallant exertions made by the Portuguese nation in the course of the last year there would be an unanimity on the present occasion. Two years ago, there was a great disposition to doubt, whether there was any likelihood of efficacious sup port from Portugal, equal to the sum of money de manded. There were then very serious doubts among military men of great authority, whether the Portuguese army could be brought to such a degree of discipline, as to be depended upon in conjunction with the British troops. It was, therefore, by no means wonderful, that at that time there should be a strong feeling against a grant of money to be applied to the Portuguese army. As it had been, however, since proved by experience, that, in a military point of view, the grants of the former years had been pro ductive of great advantage, he thought it very pro ! bable, that many who objected to the grant, when reasonable doubts existed of the efficacy of it t would now withdraw their opposition. Even at the time the grant was prop Ned lust year, there were many who saw nothing that had been done for Portugal, except forcing Lord Wellington and the army to rely on the lines of Ciutra for'the,r protection. This dif ficulty was now, however, removed; and it was seen that the supplies seat were not only sufficient to ena ble Lord Wellington to retain a defensive positiOn, but to drive the enemy beyond tle frontirs, and even • to take from them a most important fattiest, ;n View of their accumulated armies in that part of Spain.— The events which had thus taken place in the course of the last year, removed all the objections that had then been made as to the service which the supply would afford to Portugal. Now as to the principle of granting subsidy, he should observe, that in gran ting it iu favour of Portugal, we would be subsidiz ing a nation with which the national feelings of this country most strongly sympathized, and which we were peculiarly called upon to assis: by every feeling of national policy and national pride. It was hardly however fair to call that a subsidy which was a grant to increase the exertions of our allies, in aid of the operations of our armies, acting for British objects as well as for their interests. All the exertions which the British troops could have made alone, and even the splendid talents of Lord Wellington, must have failed in obtaining the successes which have attended oar operations in that quarter, if they had not been supported by the co - operation of the. Portuguese force which those grants had brought into the field. The first great testimony of the value of those troops was from the enemy, who, from their conduct at bu saco, believed -them to be British troops that Lord Wellington had clothed in Portuguese un:forms.— This subsidy has also this advantage over all other subsidies which had been granted, that it was entirely administered and applied under the inspection of Lord Wellington, which gave this country the most complete security that it would be expended in the manner most conducive to the object for which it was granted. He must also observe, that this subsidy was entirely flee from the objection which had often been made to subsidies granted to other nations, inas much as no part of it was granted in exoneration of any charge which Portugal ought to have borne her self. He had great satisfaction in stating, and it was highly creditable to the Portuguese Govern- mint that he was able to state, that such had been the fi nancial exertions of that overnment, that not withstanding the devastations committed by the French armies while they were in Portugal, the re venues of that country applicable to the purposes of the war were now greater than they had been at any former period in the history of Portugal ; and from the exertion of the Government the finances of the country were progressively increasing. He stated those grounds for his present motion, without the least wish of renewing a controversy upon this subject. He was very ready to admit, that formerly there were many gi ounds upon which Gentlemen might honestly, fairly, and reasonably, doubt of the propriety ot gran ting a considerable sum of money to form A Portu guese army; but he thought that the events of the List year, and the present effective situation of the "Portuguese farce, ought to remove those objections. It ought also to be recollected, that during the irrup-1 tion of the French there was no treachery to the com mon cause discovered in any part of Portugal. It was a proud circumstance for Portugal, that her po pulation proved perfectly free from that opprobrium ' which had fallen on portions of the population in other countries. The peasants of Portugal cheerfully retired with their families to those places which had been appointed for them to retire to, and did every thing in their power to repel the cotimon enemy.— After some farther observations, his Lordship cot"- eluded by moving— , " That a sum not exceeding two millions should be ranted to Ms Majesty, to enable him to continue to maintain and pay a body of Portuguese troops, and farther to assist in the defence of Portugal" Mr. FREEMANTLE begged to call to the mind of the House, that assistance was first granted with the view of aiding Spain. What had been done there ? Failure had attended our every step, and after a lavish expenditure, we had not an inch of Bpanish ground : we had not cne soldier within the confines of that country. Since so much ill success had attended our efforts there, he called on them to put an end to a lavish expenditure, that must bring OR the ruin of the country, if not put a stop to. He was aware that he might not be taking a very popu lar part ; he knew that he was opposing himself to the Government, with all its power and influence, and he also knew, that he was in opposition to the present views on the subject of some of his friends. All the attempts for Spain had failed, the country we had set mit to &tend; and he would repeat, that unless this lavish expenditure was put .:n end to, the destruction of our own country, he feared, must be ' the ultimate result. From the commencement of the war on the Peninsula, there appeared an almost total want of cu-operation on the part- of the Spa niards; on this ground he would object to the grant, it Spain were the principal object it WAS directed to; and, if Portugal were the principal object, this pro position ought, in his opinion, to have been shaped in a different way. It would not become him to en ter into the history, or the. decals of the war • but he did not think that he could, consistently with his duty to his constituents, vote away £2,000,000, with. out being convinced that the object. was sufficient to warrant such expenditure. The expense of that war was nearly £100,000,000 within the year; anti, now .that trade and commerce were un the decline, tie did na y think it probable that the country could any longer bear the burdens that srae daily increasing upon it. He would ask the House to remember what answer had been returned by Ministers to the numerous petitions which had been sent last year from different parts of the country. The Minister then said, that no hope could be entertained of re moving the inconveniences of which the petitioners complained, until such time as Bonaparte should re lax in some measure in the plan of hostility he had adopted against this country. The distresses of the country were as great now as then, and the liop ,Isessning them was now increased. The Nobly i.ord had said that Portugal was increased in revenue, and if so, should not the necessity of calling upon En g , land for pecuniary assistance have diminished ? It did not, in his opinion, speak much tot' the pride of the Portuguese, that it should be necessary to pay them for the defence of their own country. There were at least 50,000 British troops employed upon the Peninsula, and the expense was nut less than £4OOO a day for the mules employed in the convey ance of necessaries for that number of men. Every, horse brought on an expense of at least ;3s. per day ; and would any pers on say that the sending from this country of oats and hay for the. support of we cavalry, did not alter the state of the n'ilarkets ? It was almost a physical impossibility to keep up so Urge an army front the population ot the country ; that population was too small for such a dr#M, and the militia woulck - . not, in a short time, be table to serve the 4 recruiting the army to the same extent it bed hi t h er . to done. He knew one regiment 0 ca va l r y erhich • bad landed in Portugal 644) strong ; they were Bye times remounted, and at present they did bat amount to more than 4.EtO. He was confid ent dbe ! country could not support such eseense. J w as net by any means his wish that the Bntish troop thew% be withdrawn from Portugal. He did not object le the war, but the extravagaat pursuit of it. Mr.WA RD was 011 f at those who always tbei s e n . and did still think, that this count r y s h ou l d h ave never appeared as principals in the was. e lm d ia Peninsula. His Honourable Friend was of • • that the war ougbt not to be entirely aboodoced,hit he seemed disposed to pursue a rouch won t L ee of jolicy, not to abandon it, but to stirire it. (M ar a Phis was a plan which would render the Inv *a burdensome, but, at the same time, rak e away ak. hope of accomplishing the objects fur which it was undertaken. It ought to be recollected, that ivas so injurious to a great country :;ke ths , as Tient changes in pursuits of the kind now under ea& • sideration. When once a war Eke the present was commenced, it was much better to pursue than a, don it, particularly after having prosecuted it fer e• considerable a time. If it were to be now (b o p pe d. what would every statesman say, bat that EnSsad. when likely to tail, prosecuted the war with input. i but now that she had experienced succ esses o l d; most brilliant kinis, under the conduct of a gallant and skilful leader, she gives up the struggle, when she should be more eager to continue it. It cotad not be considered discreditable to the Portuguese ft • receive pay from England, even for the datum ef their own country. The truth was, they bad eons. mitred themselves entirely to England. This was practised often before towards many greaternatintis titan Portugal. The Emperor of Germany frequenty received money in the same way, and be never beard him considered as a disgraced person. He wa s not so sanguine as to entertain no apprehension that st e British troops should not at some time be withde ms from the Peninsula ; but, even when it may be found necessary, it should, in his opinion, be dime slowly, Whatever opinion, or whatever tear he may entertain as to the success of the war, he was convinced, that while it was in progress, it should be carried on with vigour. Colonel DILLON would not oppose the grant. Sir T. TURI ON could trot colisent to vote away so large a sum, under the present ciicumsiances of the country, without some previous inqu ry. It was not his opinion, Mit all, assistance .60(14 be with. drawn from Spain ; but he thought war the means of affording it, and the ends proposed, taken into consideration. There was nothing 11,,w heard in this country but warfare ; its tone was be. come completely military. This ar,,se from nothing else than the vast military establishment eds.& it was found necessary to keep up. He was quite cards whether it would render him unpopular or not ; fan while ever he had a seat in that House, be wouldn't agree to such grants without being convinced oldie" ' necessity. Lord COCHRANE thought that Portugal should only be defended upon the lines of Torres Vera; and from the great natural stv-ngth of that place, there would be no occasion for so 'mammas army as that at present on the Peninsula. With Badajoz and Ciudad Rodrigo, he was correicad did those places must fall as soon as the French would find it convenient to come against them in sufficient force. Upon the lines of Torres Vedras, from li to 20,000 men would be sufficient for the dams d Portugal. He could not but condemn the manna in which that gnat army 'was employed. Pima it might have been sent with good t fect into Catalano{, or our the purpose of relieving Cadiz, and raising do siege of that place. The question was then put and earrisd. bLIZACWATILIL IN rLymoirru swum Mr. YORKE said, that every perms in the leell acquainted with the naval concerns of the knew that the forming a safe roadstead in 01= bound was an object much to be desired. That pan for the last 2u years had not been coasiderrd u .014 we were obliged on that ace. eat to make use et fey bay and Cawand Bay. He aas as.ured that of tbe breakwater were completed,* ships of the ling 11 111 0 ,_ ire protected and tide with safety in the Souild.indlif such en objet the Holes:. he believed. “x l6lOlll refuse ' s trait. There was one coossusiatin. *hick sufficiently chewed that it was not an idle s,erage. • tion. A similar plan had been projected by Valhi% for the improvement of the hartKaer oft.Atibotsj• and carried .nto effect under the aunnaissratius d ll O Disc de Castries. He could net We may toe ompoone. meat of Flemouth.sound should noi ueripaal.76o44 o ble. He hope.' then, that toe would be di ustattoe• tified in recommindong the plan to we utioaut•to There were no disadvantages of any moaseat thst could possibly atti nu Its failure, but it it seciaando the greatest poss.bre aivant..ges would De ate weak. and w a ye. y few years I. uoutil nuke ardent if the entire expense. He WoUI.I, tlialialt. ll W v Cs tsA a sum not less than seBu,uuu be granted .er tee IMP pche of purchasing quarries, atid deli a) trig the year e;peuscs incident to the imploweinen. sat Piyerleth Sound.—The Resolution being a„reed to, t,,r CiAir was resumed, and die Repeat of the Cammioeg ordered to be received to-morrow. FLOOOINU IN THU LOCAL The Order if the Day for the third reading Of 011 Local Militia Bill being read,. Sir FRANC IS BURDET 1' signified his intestine of moving for the introduction of a clause, to meet the persons engaged in that service from sulferog ccrporal punishment. 'the SPEAKER apprehended it was ton Ist ea introduce a ciaase, but the Honourable &Matt we* move an amendment to any clause lie might o r to, and doing so, he wculd have an o?pciettlhi " making any remarks he might wish to offer. Sir F. BURDETT in consequence o this% Lion, arose to offer an amendment. He pieta motion with a few 'Titlarks on the impropriety dr. sorting to the punishment of flogging. Ad to the case of Mr. Taylor, to which he had last year, he maintained that what he then statedlNl correct, and that subsequent nuormation h•4111°.2 fled him that Mr. Taylor*was a man of excellent O r ratter, of good education, and coasiderable ab u t ducation had been recently spoken of asliittere"'" to the abolishing cif ipaga woo 11 % irofe . which a 411440 POO dgMvit ' • 1, in de as' NI col er AI wt eki 4 ag< Inv sad ern fere Wei St2t thAi intc ky tiilli tens eleS4 aPP a a rat R 1 ea AU ant it as of f tiny too arc pn p.A. I tip/ Min rot surt etie the the were !►n ti( inte r tre a bri e 'Perc sPiri out aad II lad • lial Idea tbe Occa