Star. — London, England, 1813-02-26 00:00:00

- .. •• . i . . • ..s. • . . .g ' . - . s ':- ' i. • ''-'-. -'. . . . - S., : '',•''' -.:: ' 4 : % :':.. • . .1 :‘ I J- - .. 1 • ', •• :; , -..-. , - • , .' •.• • . . I'. - '.. :''.,•- - , ~. i N? . - • I . . , ' ''. A' " • . :111kft , ~s, Il li P F . -. ~.kl , % i&. • . , lt-----:—'"'=r' .7 , ~_... -., . :: ..... 6 4 • • ; ~.....4 • ...a.,.....• _ . . P4RLI4NXIVEr4I2T PROCEEDIAtS. chat* since the enactment of the Penal Laws had happened in the opinions of men, and the concilier tory adjustment of these measures bad been in the contemplation of. many illustrious individuals who held high situations in the empire. Pitt, Burke, Foi, and Windham, had professed theniselves friendly to such a conciliation,-notwithstanding the other mighty , political differences which occupied their minds...— The Rontan Catholics of England, ho*ever distin guished they might be in enterprize, learning, and genius, Were wholly excluded from engaging the immunities of any civil office, and wete likewise re stricted from voting for a Representative in Parlia ment. Neither could they rise to high rank in the Army or in the Navy. A most remarkable feature in their seclusion from nai , al or military command was, that 'although they might not rise higher than the office of Captain in England, they might be commander's of armiesor navies of Ireland. Such was the Lave An English Catholic might com mand the royal navy stationed in the harbour of Cork, but he lest .0 those valuable privileges the. stioment he reached his native land. Certain people contemplated that extraordinary penal enactment as one of the chief corner stones of the venerable fabric; of the Constitution; and conceived that the whole I would drop into dust in case of its removal. The discontinuance of these penal enactments had now i become the general wish and prayer of acme of the most ancient and illustrious families in England..— True it Was, that they still professed an attachment to that religion which had descended to them from their forefathers, and which we had purified and re formed. But it Was the faith of those who at Run nymede opposed a faithless And tyrannical King, who hid rendered himself tributary to the Papal 'See •it was the religion of th ose who wreathed round their foreheads the laurels of Cressy, and Poictiers and Agincourt ;—it was the religion of many of those who gloriously combated the formi dable armada of Spain, that sailed with a boast of making Britain tributary ;—it was the ancestors of their present Petitioners, who assisted in the accom , plishment of those glorious enterpri . zes. They peti tioned their native Parliament for immunities which had been conferred on British Canada, and which had been so successfully maintained by the same power in Corsica. This they did with the remem brance that we had with treasure and with troops supported the tottering Papal throne, and with the knowledge that at present we were fighting by the side of Catholic Allies. He held in his hands a petition from many of the most ancient and illustri ous families in the kingdom professing the Catholic religion, praying for the repeal of those penal enact ments. • All that he meant to propose was, that the Petition "should lie on the Table, trusting that its contents would sink deep into the minas of the House. Mr. C. YORKE Said, the speech which the Ho nourable Gentleman had just conchided, embraced all the topics to be touched upon in this night's de. bate, and he really persuaded himself that the Hon. Gentleman had moved, that the Resolution die* Sestion should be read, for the purpose of giving the Right Honourable Gentleman ! . Mr. Grattan) an opportunity of bringing forwlrd his motion. So soon as the Petition was disposed of, be would move, that the Ninth, Tenth, and Eleventh Sections of the first and second Chapters of the Declaration of Rights of William and Mary, should be read. Mr. W. SMITH lamented that the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite entertained an opinion so differ. ent from that which he entertained himself. For his own part, he would never consent to the final con. cession of the Catholic Claims, unles; that the same privileges were extended to all the Dissenters. Mr. ELLIOT, after having made a brief reply, obtained leave to present the petition, which was or dered to lie on the table. to lament and condemn the vehement manner in which some of these Petitioners denotoscihe Catho lics. I will avoid the example ; and in thg allus;ons which I may And it necessary zo make to the Prote stant Petitions, I will speak of those from whom they have proceeded with the highest respect. Ido re , spect and love many of them. I dissent partially from their opinions; but I respect and love them , personally. .Nay, more, I will consider them not as present enemies, but as future friends to the Catho lies. They live in the same country, they are em barked in the same cause, they have the same battles to fight against the common enemy, for the common interest. Never can it be my wish to widen the breach between great bodies of men. The particular object of the Catholic Petition itself is general con cord. Never can I think that any difference in reli gion most necessarily lead to civil discord. Never can I believe that revelation came down to us a five brand, to justify Parliament in withholding . from a part of the subjects of the realm their just rights.-- Sir, I am the mote induced to hope that the cause which I have undertaken humbly to advocate will ultimately be successful, because. I recollect that in the Irish Parliament of 1792, some general and strong resolutions were adopted against the claims then made by the Catholics ; and that, in the next Session, more was actually granted to the Catholics than they had claimed. The understanding of the Irish Parliament enlarged with the exigency of the i State. I trust that this will be the case with us.-- i ._-. HOUSE OF LORDS, PEBRUARY tat In the Appeal Came, " dullest India tompaay wick's" judgment was given in favour of the Respondent. The farther, consideration of the Appeal, " Gorey. Stack pok," was, after some observations from the Loan CHANCkL- Loa, deferred to Monday next. ' Upon the motion of Lord REDESDALE, the third reading of the English insolvent Debton' Sin was fixed for Friday (to n:sorrow). ANTI-CATHOLIC PETITIONI. . Lord HAREWOOD, presented a Petition from Bali. fax, in the county of York Lord MOUNT EDGECUMB2, from Lestkvithiel ; Lord ENNISKILLEN, from the county of Ferinanagh ; Lrrd - SHANNON, from the county of Cork, and from the Queen's county ; Lord CASIDEN, from the Gentry and Clergy of the East Hundred of the county of Kent ; and Lord Ranstoa, from the Gentry and Clergy of the county of Wilts all against the Catholic Claims. Upon the reading of the Kent Petition Lt.rd DARNLEY thought proper to Petition, a few observations. The petition bore the signature. of many high and respectable names ; but it was it no means to be regarded as the unanimous opinion of the county. There was a great dissent, at the time, against the majority ; and if sufficient notice and due preparation had been afforded, he was certain the ma jority would have become the minority. Much un, due influence, to his knowledge, had been used on the occasion ; though he wit perfectly ready to acquit the Noble Marquis tCamben) of any participation in such a practice: Lord CAMDEN was fully aware that different opinions prevailed at the Meeting alluded to, and the Sheriff who pronounced the majority, scrupled not to cotifess that his own opinion was on the other side.' After some further explanation between the Noble Lords, the petition was ordered to lie on the table. Upon the reading of the Wiltshire petition, The Marquis of LANSDOWNE felt it necessary to make, a few observations. The Meeting compre hended an actual majority of the persons who were in favour of the measures or propositions to be set forth; but to the character and description of that majority, pr to many parts and individuals of it, he felt, as he had been taught to feel, the strongest objections.— He knew, and be had documents to prove, that new and most extraordinary means bad been resorted to for swelling out the list of signatures to that petition. Women set down their names and the names of their infant children, nay" more, they summoned up and collected for the purpose the names of all their absent friends and relations, and enlisted then' in the cause, nay, they went still further—one of those women, in the exercise of ter inquisit i ve ingenuity, went into a jail for signawres. In further reprobation of the Wiltshire petition, the noble Marquis presented a pe tition from Tetbury, in which it appeared that a large Majority was in favour of the Catholic claims: Adjourned till to-morrow. With this view to the ultimate success of Catholic HOUSE OF COMMONS. CATHOLIC AND ANTI-CATHOLIC PETITIONS. Sir J. NEWPORT presented a Petition from Waterford in fa four of the Claims of the Romaa Cathodes. A Petition ftom divers Protestants of Bri tel, praying for a re peal of the PenalLawsin operation against the Roman Catholic.", we, presented by Sir S. ROMILLY. Air. GRATTAN presented the General Petition of the Ro rain Catholics of Ireland, praying for the removal of their legal disabilities. _Mr. W. POLE presented a Petition from several thousand of the Protestant inhabitants of Queen's County, praying for the admission of their Roman Catholic brethren to Protertaut im munities under certain rettrictions. ' Sir J. COI.THURST presented a Petition from the Pune*. tants of Cork againit the Roman Catholics. Lord MILTON presented a Petition from the Borough of Leeds in favour of the Roman Catholics. Mr. LASCELLES said, he understood that many persons signed the petition presented by the Noble Lord under a total misconception of Iti contenti. Lord MILTON said, he had learned that the mine objection might have been made to the petition which the Hon. Geode man had presented from that quartet for a very different pur pose some time ago. 'lke petition was ordered to lie on the table. Mr. WHITBREAD presented petitions from certain Protes tants in the neighbourhood of Sheffield, the vicinity of Exeter, and various other places, praying for the repeal of the penal ex, actmeats in operation agAnst their Roman Catholic brethren. The following Members were ballotted as a Com mittee to take into consideration — the Contested Eke- Lion Petititths for the city of Bristol : Abel Smith, Esq. Lord G. Rawl', M. A. Taylor, Esq. James Daley, Esq. Benjamin Leicester, Esq. Pascoe Greufell, E-q. C. Harvey, Esq. Sir James Graham, George Shiffner, Esq. William Gen, Esq. S. Diigdale, Esq. ----- Pearce, Esq. Thos. Whit tniue; Esq. Richard Neville, Esq. Sir F. Burdett. BAST-INDIA COMPANY AND CHARTER. Mr. It. THORNTON desired leave to present a Petition to the House from the East India Company, praying for the re. otwal of their Charter. The SPEAKER inquired, *bat had prevented the Petition froth being prevented to the House at a more seasonable period ! Mr. 'THORNTON said, the extensive and complicated nature of the East-India Company's affairs, had rendered it impossible for them to prepare and present the Petition at an carnet period. The Petition was then brought up and read, and ordered to be referred to a Cothmktee. The Honourable Gentleman presented a Petition from the Merchants and Ship Owners .concerned in the India 'Trade, praying for the renewal of the Company's Charter. Also, another Pethion from the Proprietors of East India fitatk, praying for leave to raise a sum of Two Millions Ster ling, and requesting to be reimbursed to the amount (it t'svo 11 1 111 tons and a HAf of Moneye—Ordered to be re:etted :o a Committee. . . . PETITION OF THE ENGLISH CATHOLICS. Mr. ELLIOT moved, that the Rusoliation adopt- "; during the preceding Session, to ta ke into cons'- 1 a eratis on, at an early period in the ptesent sittings of Parham-714 the condition -of his :.i.iestrs Roman C at holic shNects, with A view of cowing to A conci liatory and dual adjustment of their d ..ms, should be now read. The Clerk then read the Resolution. .I.lr. ELLIOT proceeded. The Resolution which had just been read was adopted by the House of Commons at a period when considerable fermentsnd - tion had been excited in the m i n ds of the people, a hr was happy in saying, that their good conduct, down to the present period, had presery erf ed that Re 'ol,3tion unsollied.—(Hear, lwar.)— A +wondul CATHOLIC CLAIMS. Mr. GRATTAN was about to rise, when Mr. YORKE, in conformity to his previous in timation, moved, that the Clerk should read the passages in the Bill of Rights to which he had alluded. As soon as they bad been read by the Clerk, Mr. GRATTAN rose and spoke to the following effect Sir, I am very happy that the Right Hon. Gentleman has caused those passages in the Bill of Rights to be read to the House, for I am distinctly of opinion, that the qualifications which it enumerates as the indispensable accompaniments of the sovereignty of this empire, ought to form a part of the preamble of any Bill that may be introduced into Parliament for the relief of the Roman Catho lics. For, Sir; it IS most necessary and most wise, that whenever we admit the Catholics to the privi leges which they claim, we should assure to the Pro testants the onendangered continuance of all the pri vileges which are founded on the Act of Settlement. The same measure which gives liberty to the one, should give security to the other. I rise, Sir, to support the Petition which, some time ago, I had the honour to present, from the Catholics of Ireland. I am sure that I may say, without fear of contradic tion, that this Petition is generally from the Catho lics of Ireland. It is substantially true, that it con ve s the wishes of that whole body. The motion' wl.ich I mean to make is, that the House will re solve itself into a Committee, in pursuance of the re solution which, at the desire of my Right Hon. Friend, has been read by the Clerk at the Table. — Sir, I know very well, that a resolution of a former Parliament cannot bind its successor. At the same time, I do not conceive that I am guilty of any im propriety in referring to the resolution of a former Parliament. I have to lament, and it would be miserable affectation not to acknowledge it, that the Petitions against the claims of the Catholics are very numerously and very respectably signed. I have to lament that there are still in my native country many individuals enlightened in other respects, but fallible ou the subject of religious distinctions I have also emancipation, I beg leave to make a few observa tion on the Anti-Catholic Petitions on your Table ; using that liberty with the arguments they contain, that my cause may require ; but maintaining the greatest respect for the persons who have signed diem, and who, I am persuaded, are sincere in that which I, nevertheless, consider to be a very mistaken view of this important subject. In the first place, I object to the manner in which, in many instances in this country, and more particularly in Ireland, these Petitions have been obtained. In Ireland they have been the consequence of a requisition to the Sheriffs of the respective counties, to call a meeting of the Protestant inhabitants. Now it appears to me to be exceedingly objectionable for a public officer tb call the people together ift sets; and to give to a private and party meeting the authority .of a public assembly. Again, it appears to me exceedingly ob.: jectionable thus to separate religious setts; and .to give the semblance of public authority to religious animosities. I object again to calling on one part of his Majesty's subjects to petition against another ; and still more do I object to their petitioning ano ther country against the liberties of their own.— (Hear, hear, hear).—Sir, I beg not to be understood as casting any reflections on the Irish Protestant pe. titionets ; but their object has evidently been neither more nor less than this v.-to entreat the Parliament b of this country not to grant civil liberty to the great body of the people of Ireland. They petition us to inflict on their countrymen a sentence of perpe tual incapacity ; they petition us to announce to Ireland the destination of being for ever-a divided colony, and to impress 'on the general sense an ac quiescence in the necessity of this being a divided Empire. sitting for a moment, they have given judgment for eternity.—( Hear, bear, hear).—Let us consider a little their reasons for this judgment.— One of the first observations which these Petitions contain is, that the tone which the Catholics have assumed renders it unwise to grant their claims.-- But that is not the question. We are not in the Parliament of the United Empire entering into an examination of the arguments that may lave been urged in this or that body. We are not inquiring whether Mr. A. or Mr. B. may or may not have spoken too freely. What has the conduct of any particular assembly to do with the great body of the Catholics The question is, shall the great body of the Catholics of Ireland be emancipated ? The opponents of the Catholic claims say, that they ought not to be emancipated. because Mr. Fitzpatrick published a libel. But this is not a question depen. dent on such circumstances. Ido not say that there may not have been much warmth exhibited in dis cussion in Ireland ; but I say that the question is— can you, in any past of their prxeedings, charge the Catholics wi th want of allegiance ?—(Hear, hear.)—lt is a question of allegiance. If it can 'be shewn that the Catholics of Ireland have shewn a disposition ad verse to royalty, then my motion ought to be re. jected. But if, on the contrary, there does not appear any dissaffection in their proceedings, in their speeches, or in their general conduct, then the Resolution of Thanks to the Irish Catholics which was involved in the Resolution of Thanks to the Army who gained the victory of Salamanca, should be followed up in its full and genuine spirit ; and the Catholics of Ire land should be considered as entitled to the same civil liberties as the other loyal subjeits of his Ma jesty's empire have a natural and legal right to pos .sess. Having thus stated the question to be one of allegiance, let us proceed, Sir, to examine how the Anti-Catholics have made out their case. They say that the Catholics desire political power. Why should they not? Why should they be sentenced to utter and hopeless exclusion film all political power ? But, Sir, the Catholics have not applied , for political power. They have applied for political protection ; and no further for political power than as political power is inseparable from political protection. The Catho lics, having given pledges of their allegiance, desire not to be bound in fetters from which their fellow ! subjects are free; they desire not to be taxed without their own consent ; they desire not to be tried by per sons who are exclusively partisans—not only para. sans, but who are actually covenanted against them. To the inquiry 4 , what is your wish ?' they reply, 4 i we wish for our liberties! We do not demand this or that office, but we desire to possess our just civil qualifications." Do you understand them ? Is this ambition ? If it is ambition,.then was Magna Charts ambitioa--thers was the declaradoa of Rights ambi- tion. Protection, not power, is the request of the .Catholics. The Catholic Petitioners ask for protection, it is the Protestants who ask for-power. The Pro tenants ask for the ascendancy of their sect "-the Catholics ask tor the ascendancy of the law.—(Rear, • hear.)—Let me repeat'that I wish to treat the PON testants with all possible respect. • It is natural that they should be tenacious of their peculiar privileges. But unquestionably they desire by their Petitions to keep all the patronage of Irelandkin their hands, to maintain a continued ascendancy, in govern the other sects in the country ; while the Catholics only desire in their Petitions, that the whole should he go verned by an equal law. The Protestant petitioners assert, that the Catholics want power, in order to make laws for the Protestant Church. No! they only desire, as I have before stated, nd to be taxed without their own consent ; not to be tried by parti. sane, or juries called by partisans. Their prayer is, that the Protestant Church should be governed, not by Catholics,_ but by Protestants; for the Catholic-a know, end the Protestants know, that under any eir l cumnances, and after any' concessions, the majority in this House must be Protestants, and that by that majority,"the laws for the Protestant Church must be made. But the members of the Protestant Church who have petitioned us, desire to make laws exclu sively for the Catholic Church. They wish to con. troul the conscience of the Catholic, as well as to bind him in other respects. They are willing to receive the tithes of Catholic labour, but they desire to ex• dude the Catholic from a participation in the bless. ings of the Constitution.—(Hear, mar.)—Their at. gument%s this, , 6 the persons wh o regulate the Pro. testant Church, should be of that church." Why • then, all the Scotch Members of this'House ought to be seat away. All who do not profess to hold the • doctrines of the Church of England ought to be sent • , away. The tendency of the argument of these Gen. tlemen is, that we ought to have a Church Govern. went. But ours is not a Church Government, it a Representative Government : it includes all chissei„ all religions, all descriptions of 'Arsons, except the Catholic and the Churchman. The principle on which these Gentlemen insist will prove fatal. If you confine the enjoyment of the Constitution to the , limits of the Church of England, you will endanger the empire ; if you extend it to all religious persua. skint, you will place the empire in a state of security. The Parliament is justly called Imperial. It is not a_ ,partisan. The Catholics of Ireland Make a part of • the third estate - . Is it not so ?. Is not the great body of electors in Ireland Catholic ? Does it not follow, that a part, and that no inconsiderable portion, of the third estate is already Catholic ? And can we for is moment suppose, that this is incompatible With the ermine principles of the British Constitution ? But e fact is, Sir, that the Protestants will and must have the asendancy in the State. The great popula. tion of the empire is Protestant—the great property of the empire is Protestant. This ascendancy chit. Protestants have a right to possess, but they ought I to possess it, not by the exclusion of their fellow-sub. jects from a participation of civil liberty, but in • virtue of their superior numbers and property.— Sir, in the provision for the Royal Authority being • exclusively Protestant, the Protestant interest has another great and wise security for the maintenance of its ascendancy. The admission of the Catholics to their civil rights will be entirely cc-existent with the maintenance of the Protestant ascendancy; and by granting that admission you will strengthen and fortify the whole Empire. To grant the Catholics their privileges Will be to identify the people: for t is by granting them their rights that yoii must et. pect to identify them, and not by keeping them in chains. To grant the Catholics their privileges, maintaining the just ascendancy of the Protestants, will be much more effectually to support the State, and much more effectually to support the Church, than either can be supported by a monopole of power had without that identification of the people of the • two countries, which suth a measure alone can in: Sure. Superficial, indeed, are the argument. of the opposers of emancipation. They think that the ad: mission of five or six individuals—such men as Lord Fingal' and other enlightened members of the Cacho. - tic Body—into Parliament, will be .productive of in. jurious consequences, but to the alienation of four of five millions.of persons out of Parliament they attach no importance I—(Heat !)—A Right Hon. Genii*. man has talked of the pains and penalties which, as he thinks, were justly inflicted on the Catholics at the time of the Revolution. They were not, however; the effect of the Revolution, but took place long aftkr the reign of Queen Anne. As to the exclusion of the Catholics from political power at the period of the Revolution, that was not an original idea at that peg: riod but arose out of, and was founded on, the fabri. cated plot of Titus Oates, the severities occasioned by which were even mitigated at the Revolution. And will Parliament make the madness of that time the rule by which the liberty of their fellow-subjects is to be regulated at all times ? 44 But," say the Antis Catholics, toleration in England is greater than in any other country." Sir, I know very well, that the principles of every established church are in some de. gree hostile to toleration ; there is scarcely any church which will tolerate so extensively and liberally as a wise Parliament ought to dn. But when it is maintained that toleration in England exceeds that of any other country—that it is perfect—l roust dr• dare my opinion to be the reverie. Abroad, in Ca tholic countries, persons professing a difference of re. ligious sentiments enjoy, not only toleration, but qualification. At home, in a Protestant country, persons professing a difference of religious sentiments are not only disqualified, but hardly tolerated...-. Abrciad, sectaries enjoy toleration united with quali fication. Here they have a scanty toleration united with pains and penalties. In France, for instance, no man is disqualified on account of his religious opi nions. In Hungary, toleration and qualification are completed. I will read an edict issued by the Hun. gatian Diet, in 1791. It declares, Gs that all persons