Star. — London, England, 1813-07-09 00:00:00

PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS. NOUSE OF LORDS, JULY S. Counsel was heard in brhalf of "the Trustees of the late Duke of Queensberry v. Wemiss," when judgment was postponed dine di,. In the cause " Rubicon e. Humble," Counsel was heard, and further hearing deferred till to-morrow. On the motion of the LORD CIANCELL•R. the Earl of SHATTRSEVRY took temporarily the place of Chairman of Com mittees in the rc , oni of Lord WALscs °Hass, who by a domestit calamity was prevented from attending in his place that day. Lord W.llington's Estate, Lord Nelson's Estate, the Vote of Credit, and the bilk Duties Bills were read the second time and ordered to be committed. '1 sse Irish Co tholic Officers, the Vote of Credit, the Irish Fees, the Irish Court-houses, the Parish Registers, the Irish Insolvent Debtors, the Appropriation, the Salt Duties, and the Tower Hamlets Bills went through a Committee, and, with some Arnaidnients, were ordered to be reported. The Annuities Registration, the Ecclesiastical Courts Regula tion, the Fire-Arms, the Country Bakers, the Glass Duty, the Poor Debtcrs' Relief, the Isle of Man Spirits, the Excise Li cences, the ;awes Embezzlement, and Windsor Forest Bills, were severally read the third time and passed. Mr I.v sIIINGTON and others from the Commons, brought up the Slsip owe is' Responsibility Rebel Bill. The Endowed Irish Schools, the Mary-la-Bonne Park, the Archbishop of Canterbury 's Estate, and the English Insolvent Debtors' Relief Bills, were also brought up, with the concurrence of the Commons in the several Amendments made therein by their Lordships. _ _ _ Mr. Huddlestone, from the Bank of England, presented Pa pers relative to the value of Gold and Silver, front sth January Iboo to the sth January, 1813. Mr. Hill, from theTicasury, likewise presented Papers agree ably to theirLordships' orders. Their I.ordships then adjourned till to-morrow. HOUSE OF COMMONS. The Iri3l► Loan Bill went through a Committee, and the Re• port was ordered to be received to-morrow. 'flie Itepert of the Committee on bill. l'aliner's claims was rec. ivi ', a, d a BM ordered to be brought in accordingly. Mr J. S.\ I rrli brouOit is a Bill, to anicuil the Act of Queen Anne, f n• mak ii,g navigable the liver Cam, in CaNtbridge.hire, hizli w r• ail aEr t timt. Mr. 1.0 L;i:/ IART movie' that the House should resolve it eh' into a Conn' ou the Mock Auction Bill. some c bNervatioos horn the SPEAKER, as to the re gular 0t,), 1 .; of pr) euln:, the d tuie impo,it g dutits WaS omit ted, it cot being a r b.l , ur lot:next' upon ail previous Resoltrion of the House. Mr. WHARTON r,:newed his objcctkrs to the provisions as nor ginn.s tar enough._ , SHAW movcd several rev, clans(-, for eralling Auc tionet rs to withdraw goods Apecifitil in the caralogut s ; and for the exertivion of Colonial produce—which were adopttd, and the Repol tc: the Commit Orderej to be rectivt d to-morrow. Mr. W. SMITH moved, tint: a Committee hr. aprointed to inspect the lands' journals, to examine what riesol,tiocs had, been passed coneer.dng persons cliff ring f nlll th. En-hi:shed' Chit. !t, iu tr.e princi,:les of their religious bel,f. Ordi.i A Me).:q .. .,c f.'utti the Loids ancutinc, that 'll'4 had agreed, without any amendinert. to tl.e Ct.s•oms, J xtyt quer Bills, and other Bils, aid to tht Ilc:!, 4.lst:cid Ccort and - Life Annuity Lolls, with An.cadruent to st tno ; dt ed the Concurrence of that House. st:ANIEN'S WAGES ANN 11117.17-MONEv. Sir FRANCIS BURDETT expie,,..ed his hope k that the FLuse woald unanimously c.,,ncut V , itil him in estimating the importance of the roject to nhi..lt be had already given notice of his intention to dr.:‘‘- '. their com,ider.:eon, •and in the necessity of applying some practical remedy to the grievance which it was undeniable did exist It had been admitxd on a re cent occasion, That consider,.ble difficulty was expe rienced by relative., of deceased seamen in making good their claims to the m3ney due to dull], under 1 1 ) the different heads of Prize-money, Wages, &c. It was acknowledged, at the same time, that the Clerks i ‘ of the Admiralty we r e c o mp e ll e d to g i ve a b on d, en gaging them not to disclose ti:e names of the deceit sed. He could not see any sufficient ground for a J regulation of this kind ; but . o f thi s h e was qu it e cer., fain, that there was no way by which the House, ! could so effectually testify their approbation and gra-, i titude to that valuable class of men, to whom we all owed so much, as by protecting them against the' 1 cru,lty and injustice of their Comm an d ers , an d seen .i ring. to them those hard-earned fi u it s of th e i r b raver y and exertions. In the Navy Pay Office, he under stood, ho%%evtr, that no obligation to secrecy was ex- . • acted, and it appeared to his judgment that this system t of secrecy must itself ptesent the chief facilities and r advantauts in the peiPetration of frauds. He con ceiveia ~ t , v , .ercfoie, that some legulation similar to that which v..t. applied to the unclaimed dividends at the .... . miss.: be adopted with advantage, although he shrl.ld tvili;ogly kten to :my suggestion that migla ttpitear beaer e tJcnl tied for the accon.plish merit rt cite pizrpose he k . RI in view. He should cur.- a.t preent, by mov;ng, 4t 'I'LL: au Accotan publi-hetl every s;x momhs, or (all the Nion , s, due to drevatied t;t. , m , r, att.! Mart:ws, :rtbing them from the Looks. znd ^pcii; U.& the 1.1..C1 W4Crl: they At r c barn." fora COCHRANE seconded the motion. Mr. CR.WiLIi. said, it he saw tl: , . :ieccs,ity or ex i pediency of the Hon. Ba'ronet's measure, he hoped (the House would do him the justice to believe he ;would most willingly give it his stipp. rt. If such a regulation were, however, at all pi acticable or likely to be attended with any beneficial consequences, it would not, he believed, have been left to the Hon. Baronet to suggest it. The Hon. Baronet, in com tnenting on the bonds entered into by the subordinate Clerks, a copy of which he held in his hand, had uncandidly omitted several words, which gave to it its qualified effect. These words were those which ,iendered it ncces ary for the lower Clerks to receive the previous permission of the Chief Clerk before he made any diclosure. This limitation of the restraint Ole Hon. Baronet, in frankness, ought not to h av e Isuppressed—(Hear, hear).—What was the object and result of this practice, but to prevent tampering with the inferior Clerks, and to guard against those nu merous frauds to which this particular department of 'the public service was so incessantly exposed? Were 'the Treasurer of the Navy, the Lords of the Admi- 1 r•alty, the Secretary of the Admiralty, or the Comp troller, such obscure personages, that i claimant, (however ignorant, was less likely to find his way to them than to the petty Clerks of public offices ? The regulation or taking bonds had effectually checked a Isystem of fraud and imposture which had been car lied to the greatest length ; and the measure of the Hon. Baronet would oily have the effect of furnish ing inf rmation to the sharpers with wham Lon- Lcion abo , inded, and not to the poor relations of the ' deceased, mho probably resided at a d'stance, and seldom saW a Gazette. The fact was, that every practicable means had been already ad-pted, and that by the care taken in registering seamen': vrillL, the ends of jest cc a , d humanity we:e carried home to the cottages of tilt! ri..l.tfill elaiti,;mt. The Honour ,able Laroliet, he would no: say with what propriety, act intimated his doubts aa to what became of the 'nclairned money due. lie would now infoon hitn,l that it was sunk in the Greenwich fund, the interest divided into pensions to meritorious seamen, and the capital reserved to meet the future claims which might be made by the heirs of the deceased, when ever they should be preferred—(Hear, hear l) He was glad, on this occasion, to see a Noble Lord, (Lord Cochrane) in his place, because he was about to give him an opportunity Of 'redeeming the pledge which he had given in his answer to the speech of that Noble Lord on a late evening—(Hear, hear).-- had then said, that in so widely extended a ser vice, it was not possible to refer at once to every in sulated fact which might be stated in that House. The number of letters which he daily received was upon an average about 400, which were answered by the next post, if the circumstances to which they re ferred were within the cognizance of the Admiralty. If they were not, they were immediately transmitted to the different public Boards to which they respec tively belonged. He had, however, since enquired into all the cases mentioned, and was now enabled to contradict them all, in point of fact, as he had before done upon principle—(Mar.) As to Wm. Ford, who, the Noble Lord said, had been obliged to pay £BO to procure his discharge from harbour duty, he had to state these circumstances :—He was a gunner's mate on board the Im',erieuse, and had never beer. sent to harbour-duty, and had never paid eighty pounds for his discharge—(Hear, hear, hear). —He had received a letter from his wife some time ago, informing him that the Imperieute had arrived at Portsmouth, and requesting that her petition for her husband's discharge might be complied w;th as soon as she had procured the substitutes. The pe tition was granted, and no money was paid. The Noble Lord had betrayed some ignorance as a Cap tain in the Navy, of the origin of the practice of taking money for discharges ; the object of which was to pre vent the men from becoming the dupes of crimps.— It did not exist till 1810, although the Noble Lord had complained of its operation in 1809. Ford's wile was employed three months among those crimps before she succeeded, during which time Ford was on board the flag ship, Salvador del Mundo, in order to be discharged, and in due time was discharged ac cordingly. The second case was that of Samuel Milton, the Noble Lord's' own- coxswain, and a Greene ich pensioner, stated to be invalided for har bour duty. [Lord Cochrane said, No !] Mr. Croker appealed to the douse, whether the whole of the Noble Lord's statement and cour se of argumnt did not imply, that to be exemptcd from harbour-duty this man had paid a€Bo ? (Mar, hear.) Samuel Milton was an able ~ : eatnan on beard the Imperieuse; he had been discharged in ISO 9 ; and in 1811, by a forged ccitificate, tilt ough the means of one of the Honourable Baronet's lower clerks, he meant Mr. Gawler, he had obtained a pension of £l2 per annum. ( Hear, her.) This had, since his misconduct, been discovered, and taken away, and all the charges of oppression and neglect against the Admiralty resol vs d themselves into this, that they had erred on the :ade t,l indoh , : ,ence and given for .t short time £l2 a- I ycat to an undeserving object. (Hear.) As to the case of Farb!y, the Noble Lord's statement was just as correct as it was in the particulars to which he had already adverted, that is, utterly destitute of any foundation in fact. ( Hear, hear.) The man had been discharged into Plymouth Hospital on account of a severe malady, and on his recovery, discharged entirely froni the service without any payment what ever. (Hear, hear) The Noble Lord had said, that he had been himself obliged to discharge sixty men upon his own responsibility, when he commanded the Pallas. This did not appear by the books of that ship, and he could not suppose that the Noble Lord had falsified them, although he had been told that the Noble Lord's practice was a little inaccerate,and that he had been in the habit of taking able men wherever he could find them, not as supernumeraries, but substitutes. The Noble Lord seemed to signify dissent, he might perhaps say, that he sent the men whom he discharged from bis own ship into others, but he had on a late occasion declared, that they were discharged as utterly unserviceable. Now, by the books of the Pallas, it appeared, that during the Noble Lord's command, only tilteen men were dis charged by order of the Admiralty for different causes. The Noble Lord had complained of borough interest —had that bad any weight with the late appointment of the Noble Lord himself, with the Lieutenant who had been made a Commander, contrary to the regu lations upon his (Lord Cochrane's) special recom mendation, nr with the Midshipman, who, upon the same recommendation, had been made a Lieutenant ? In turning to the Noble Lord's observations on the Macedonia, he had discovered fresh reason for asto nishment that the Noble Lord should uniformly steer so clear of every thing that resembled fact. ( A laugh.) He had received that day the sentence of the Court- Martial upon the Captain and crew of the Macedo nia, which expressed the highest admiration of the courage, coolness, and resolution, with which Capt. Cardan had fought his vessel ; and whilst the Court honourably acquitted Captain Cardan, felt it, at the' same time, a duty to bear the fullest testimony to the zealous exertions of the First Lieutenant, and to the assistance which had been given by the other officers and crew to their Captain, in that arduous contest, against a greatly superior force; and con cluded by observing, that their conduct was as ho nourable to themselves as to the general discipline of the ship.—(Hear, hear.).L--He had received another' letter by that morning's mail, as it were by the aid of some divinity unpropitious to the Noble Lord, from Captain Cardan himself, informing him that his men, notwithstanding the insidious means em ployed to seduce them, had all remained faithful to their allegiance, and refused to enter into the service of the enemy.—(Hear, hear.)--The Noble Lord, however, was yet more unfortunate. As he was on his way to the House, he met Captain Broke, who had just arrived in town, and received from him some particulars relative to the late action, which he hoped it would not be considered impertinent to mention in the House.—(Hear, hear.)—Of all the naval actions, then, which had ever been fought between single frigates, this was, in his opinion, the most brilliant. Captain Broke, who had been on the American station for a considerable period, and had taken several prizes, stink them, in order to keep his ship's company in a condition fit for meet. 1 1 ing the enemy ; sacrificing; without hesitation, his personal interest to the honour and advantage of his country. With great judgment, he sailed to protect 'the Jamaica Convoy, and to search for Commodore Rodgers.—He found them both ; and if the triumph over the . latter was still deferred, he had been indebted for his safety to the wiods alone. The American frigate which he had now taken was captured in fifteen minutes.--(Hear, sear, hear J.— gaptain Broke was wounded—and where ? on the ,enemy's deck, leading on his men to storm her fore- castle.—(Hear, /rear).—The battle was fought with no other ship in sight ; the American came out of port, for the purpose of fighting, in full confidence, with all her sails set. She had 16 guns and 110 men more than the Shannon, mounting 44, with 440 men on board. They came side by side, and nothing ,could exceed the tremendous precision of the broad sides. Captain Broke perceived that the enemy's men flinched.from their guns; he called instantly for the boarders, - and headed them himself ; although cut down with a sabre on the deck of the Chesapeake, she was taken in three minutes alterw ar d s .—(H ear , shear). —lt was a beautiful sight, to use Captain Broke's expression, to see the two ships sail away, after the American had struck, with all their masts and rigging standing, not a sail or a rope injured, and wearing the appearance of having been engaged in firing only a friendly salute. He mentioned these circumstances, because they came so opportunely to meet the unwarranted assertions of the Noble Lord, as to the disheartened spirit and depressed condition of British seamen. --(Hear, hear).--He believed, however, that there never passed a day which did not afford not precisely similar, but quite sufficient evidence to refute such statements and such observa tions as those of the Noble Lord. He had to beg pardon for so long detaining the House, and con cluded by saying, that as he thought the Honourable Baronet's motion, to say the least of it, unnecessary, he should certainly oppose it. —.( Loud cheering). Lord COCHRANE denied having cast any im putation on the officers or men of the Macedonian ; and be thought, that the Hon. Secretary, by owning that men were not discharged even after the longest period of set vice without finding substitutes, had made good what he had advanced, that they were obliged to pay in some shape or other. The Noble Lord then produced a letter he had that morning re ceived from a sailor's wile, stating, that her husband, I after spending one hundred pounds to procure substi tutes, and having obtained his discharge, had been impressed again. All those facts were substantially correct; and he cou!d prove it at the Bar of that House. The letter of this poor woman went on to state, " that. her husband bad made one more voyage in the East India Company's service, in the Bengal, not supposing, as he had a certificate of discharge, that he was liable to impressment. He had, how -1 ever, been taken from on board that vessel, and was at present serving in the Hecate frigate." The writer declared that she did not possess the means of pur chasing a single loaf of bread ; and she must have perished had not Mrs. Cavendish Brad.rha.,v heard of her situation, and afforded her some pecuniary relief, at the same time taking her eldest dauglrer into her own service. If the Right Hon. Secretary of the Admiralty possessed a spark of humanity, he must feel for an unfortunate wile and mother, plunged into such deep digress. The poor woman concluded by beseeching him to espouse her cause, and to use his exertions in procuring the release of her husband ; surely this was not a situation in which their brave seamen should be placed. There ought to be a li mited period assigned for their service. They ought not to be subjected to the caprice of the Board of Admiralty, or of any other set of men. He thought it was extraordinary that he should have been attacked in such an unwarrantable manner, when he could prove, beyond a doubt, all the material facts of the cases he had stated. (Hear, hear.)—He repeated, that he could prove all the material facts. With respect to the insinuation, that he had falsified the ship's books, he peremptorily denied that lie had ever done so. The case to which he alluded was this :—His ship having been improperly manned originally, he took the first opportunity of discharging those men, who did not appear to be efficient. He did not send them away, as the Hon. Gentleman supposed, when he had procured superriumeraries, but they were regularly ordered on board the Salvador del Mundo. With respect to the case of Lieut. Urry Johnson, it was necessary to observe, that he was Ithe only Lieutenant on board his ( Lord Cochrane's) vessel, when he went to Basque Roads—in conse quence, he conducted one of the fire-ships, and exe. cuted the duty allotted to him in a most officer-like manner. Now, previote-ly to that expedition, Lord Mulgrave informed him, th It it was intended to pro ' mote, without reservation, those officers who were en gaged in it, which was certainly a very proper deter mination. In consequence, however, of the reports, which had gone forth, relative to his (Lord Co chrane's) conduct at Basque Roads, after he had been honoured with the Red Ribbon, which Ministers would most willingly haie taken from him subsequently, con siderable displeasure was manifested against him.— They could not get him under their claw, but they shewed their feelings by keeping Mr. Johnson at the bottom of the list of those who were then promoteo, although lie should have stood at the lead of it.— As to Lieutenant isson, he had never seen him but three times on board the ship. He recommended him, amongst others, who had behaved gallantly at IBasque Roads ; but he had not mentioned those wire conducted themselves badly, and who were, notwith standing, promoted. After all that had been said b) the Right HonourableGentleman, he contended that his principal points remained untouched. Neither the improper length of service—the grievance t I har bour duty—or the 15 per cent. additional on sleos— had been justified. Had the late Lord Melville re mained a few years longer at the head of the Adm:- ralty, he would have redressed those grievances ; and he hoped the son of that Nobleman would examine the records which he had left behind him, which, be was convinced, would afford him a vast body of use ful information. The situation of the army and navy was extremely different at present. The army, in all branches, was gnarly ameliorated. Every thing was there conducted with energy—the commanding offi cers were men of ability—and the good effects ot the system were felt in every regiment. Now, could they expect, it officers were appointed merely by Parliamen tary influence, that such a result would be produced ? Men should not be sent to command in one ships, either because they bad interest with the Lords of the Admiralty—because they had influence in any bn. rough—or because they delivered ahy p articular opi nions in that House. In the course ot his speech4ge had not mentioned any officer in terms of disrespect, nor had he thrown any slur on the character of Lri. tish seamen. He thought, however, that trifles were attended to on board our ships, instead of matters of importance. The seamen were obliged to employ themselves in polishing crow-bars and monkey-tails, instead of being exercised at the small arms and great guns. They were obliged at day-light, every morn ing, to go down or. their knees, to scrub the ship with holytone: and hand-Las, by the order of those j young gentlemen who were too frequently appointed by the weight of Parliament influence, and who were desirous of making the ship look like a toy-shop.— These were the grievances of which he complained, and which Parliament ought, in his opinion, to inter fere in rectifying. Mr. CROKER, in explanation, said, the Noble Lord had said all his material facts were right; he would not allow him so to escape. The Noble Lord had pointed out certain cases, these cases he (Mr. Croker) had answered ; and if the Noble Lord wished to point out other cases, he would attend to his com mands, and had no doubt he should be able to an. swer them equally to the Noble Lords satisfaction as he had done those already adduced. He was sur prised that the Noble Lord should have asserted that, from the spite to him, Lieutenant Lirry Johnson had t been kept at the bottom of the list. Surely the Noble Lord must have recollected, that he stated the ob jection made to the promotion of Lieutenant Johnson, to have been, that he had not served the regular number of years. And he also observed, that art Order in Council had been procured, to supersede the law in that particular instance. Of coursey Lieute nant Johnson might still remain junior to those CM- # cers on the list who had served for a greater length of time. Lord COCHRANE said, the conduct which was manifested towards Lieutenant Johnson, was a part of a regular system ; and, in proof of this, he in. stanced the cases of two of his First Lieutenants, one of whom had captured a vessel greatly superior to that which he Commanded, and the other, 'with a single boat's crew, had made prize of a large ship— yet neither of them was promoted. But, when the First Lieutenant of Sir Samuel Rood, with the boats of the entire fleet, had captured a vessel, he was im mediately promoted by the Admiralty. Mr. Alderman ATKINS spoke in high terms of the conduct of the Noble Lord as a Naval Officer, but expressed his indignation at his being so misled as to bring before that Honse, matters which had a tendency to render our seamen dissatisfied. He thought the Secretary to the Admiralty had com pletely answered all that had been urged. As a ship. owner, he knew that a clean ship was as desirable as a clean house, and that the use of the holy -stones might be very requisite. As to the loss of physical. powers, an instance came recently before him as a Magistrate, of a sailor, who had left die service, and was robbed of his watch. The tar seized the robber, and said he had grappled with him, so that the thief ,could not get away from him. Such was the lass of physical powers !—(a laugh;.—The Noble Lord could do great service to his country in his profes sion ; but did not act the same part in the character of a Senator. Lord COCHRANE appealed to the Speaker, ois . the accusation made against him of exciting dissatis faction in the navy. The SPEAKER said, that he understood the ex pressions to mean, that the Noble Lord's line of ar gument had a tendency to that effect ; but not that they were so intended. Mr,P,lderman AT K INS corroborated the Speaker's interpretation of the meaning of the expressions he ' had used. Mr. CROKER said, that two years ago the Admi. ratty had considered the subject of abuses respecting the desire of cleanliness on board ships. He could assure the House that this matter had received unre , milting attention. Sir FRANCIS BURDETT complimented Lord Cochrane for his exertions to benefit a service of tit hich he was so bright aft ornament. What he had stated of buses in the Navy, was done with the hope they would be corrected. The seamen could not have a more proper advocate; and if he was attended to. instead of dissatisfaction, the result wouk! be edv,:n• tage and justice to the navy. What improper motive ' could possibly be assigned to the Noble Lord ? Every man must feel and acknowledge the importance oi • the services of Captain Broke ; particularly under the present circumstances : but where all concurred t in the same feeling, it was not necessary for every person to take up the time of the House in praising undifputed merits. When it was found, that after long service, the seaman forgot every thing but his duty to his country, a strong reason was afforded for looking into his situation. I'he Hon. Secretary had made an eloquent eulogium on the navy ; but yet he refused a motion, the object of which was to do good to the relatives ef our brave seamen. Economy was an excellent thing ; but in such cases as this, a too close attention to it might be the worst of practice.-- By greater liberality, bounty-money might be reduced, and, perhaps, the practice of impressthent might be got rid of ; for its necessity seemed only to exist, br cause we did nbt give adequate rewards. He (Sir Francis Burdett) was no patronizer of such misplaced (economy. It was inconsistent with the justice and the character of the country, to dole out such miser able pittances to brave men. Th , :re might be unme rited pensions and sinecures, the retaining of which prevented the just discharge nt well-founded °Nip- 1 It might be impossible to reward the deser ring, while a corrupt Borough influence prevailed. Let that be stopped, and some enlargement made tot the 'sake of justice, and the nation would :imp the benefit. The division being called for, no A•es went mt • there were 63 Members remaining in the licust:.— The motion was consequently lest. FINANCE. On the re-opening of the Gallery, Mr. Throw: was proposing to put off the cost.sideration • i tit Rr. solutions forfora fortntgly, with the view'n: tal.;,ig the up next Session, which was agree,' to. Cotb AFFM Mr. R. THORNTON hope'd the 2.iscus6 - in would not be precipitated, as the Propricu-rs h.,' not time to consiAer of the 13111. Lord CASTLERE AGIT had n 1 thject:on, if ic were unArrsteod that it should be 'Ole first to-morrow. Mr. TIERNEY did tvA ice how the C. , utt P,T:-