Star. — London, England, 1813-01-23 00:00:00

, INDIA HOUSE. Yesterday a very'numerous Meeting of the Pro prietors of East India Stock took place at the India 1-lotre, for the purpose' of taking into consideration the Resolutions which had been proposed at the for mer Conn:- At twelve o'clock the CHAMIAN en tered; with a number of the Directors. The Minicar' said, they were-again met to tilt& into further consideiatiod the Papers which had been laid before the Court on a former occasion. As Par liament would meet early in the next month, it was Most desirable that the Court of Directors should be early informed of the opinion of the Proprietors.— Since their last Meeting he had received a letter from the Earl . of Buckinghamshire, which, as the most regular mode, he would read as a part of his speech. The letter stated, that, having observed that a Gen ' tleman of the name of Davis had stated that a vessel named the Rodney had arrived at Madras when he (Lord B.)4ai Governor, in 1795, and that the Cap tain was unable to dispose of his investment, and thkt it Was at tast.disposed of by lottery; be•:( Lord B.) now thought it necessary to declare, ,fcitTaar of. any impttiper inference being drawn, that, ifissels & Cir cumstance had taken pike, it had entirely escaped; his memrry. He remembered that a vessel named the Hillsborough lied arrived at Machitituring his and that it steas.neciuxii to dispatch . id immediately, - on the pudic service. of her signified to him -(Lord B.) that utterly ruined. In consequence of this , fie (Lord 13.) authorised an agent to go, he , (Lord B.) making himself re the amount of it. The cargo•lvas sold; not }Ave been sold at a lois, for he was on to make it up. The worthy Chair ight it his duty to read this letter to aPprehended that it ought not to inter- liscussion before them. thought this letter demanded some .ex his part, on this important point. He Ime ago, contended that the trade with as open as was serviceable to the coun :e was no one year of his commercial could have shipped' 5000 tons of goods, so disposed. At ne period last year ships lying at Calcutta, the Captains itioned Lord Minto to take the goods, iarkets were so glutted with •European 1795 he was at Madras; when the 'ved : she was freighted and consigned, in 'he last debate. He had no doubt iould bring the circumstance to Lord irance. The Captain of her (Carruthers) - tt a private party, and he (Mr. Davii) um memory, but he was strongly of his name stood at the head of the list to the lottery which was set on foot of Captain Carruthers. 'However that new case of the Hillsborough, con :d B.'s letter to the Chairman, made for his (Mr. Davis's) argument. For, he was actuated by oo private motives iiestion, but was only anxious that the of this country should not be misled. ,MAN here interrupted the worthy Gen tying. that the Court - was perfectly sa le explanation which he had given. - • :or, %hose name we did not learn said,4 ipossible the exports to India could 1* the country; for the Merchants of the ild soon complain of the mad delusion .en held out to thesis. But borne away, at present; these obliging Gentlemen .ports) would undertake the China trade its own part, he conceived the Charter They were now without an enemy in !ir own exertions; and was that a time r•theierights, when they stood on so minence. Ile hoped that Parliament if against a delusion, which would be ; City, and most injurious to the coun- Was that system to be destroyed by ienies of ridiculous speculators, whose Iws into this country, invigorates its increases its marine ? He could not ible that Parliament would submit to lierefore relied on the wisdom, equity, policy of the Legislature, to save their my that means to prevent injury to the ANT said, that there had been some Int in other,plates, out of their doors, , of Proprietors wished to stifle all dis iere could be nothing more unfounded; he W 25 glad that an Honourable Pro . Hume) had tried the experiment how position, both as to quantity and quality, The Hon. Proprietor had accused :h reprobating, in too strong terms, the domineering language of Ministers ; had made as bold a charge against Directors ; for at a time when they • themselves on that meeting for coun irt, he had charged them with the base 1g all this with a view of preserving to whole of the Indian patronage. As 'al course of that Gentleman's argu- Id satisfy the Court in a few words that )r the most part, .irrelevant, inconclu- Founded in fact. The advantages which is had enjoyed in this trade were cr ud in the Resolutions which had been lastmeeting ; but the worthy Gentle ;ondescer.ded to say from whence they advantages ; he had said not one word of them, their neutral impunity. The the worthy Gentleman would have relevant if they had been discussing Council, or the opening of the Conti- He had also argued as if the trade idChina had suffered no increase under ;tablished by the Company. The indigo said, had only been brought to perfec :ertions of private individuals ; at the ie, his own statement proved that those ever c&uld have done what they had, tssittance of the Company. For these laces of individual success (to use the :man's own language) were not wor .. The worthy Gentleman had also .eatest reliance on Mr. Colebroke's opi. irned out, however, to be that of Mi. mon of a most speculative disposition, and one deeply eondeeted with the private.. trade a.. India. After these scattered remarks be would ask' if, (admitting all the evils to exist in tie present sys tem), they were pet well worth enduring, rather than proceed to tho dreadful political alternative pro posed. For his own part, he should hope that this systeth that had stood so long with advantage to the .country, and to - many millions in Asia, would norbe destroyed for any supposed political advantage what ever. In viewing the arguments carried on between Ministers and the Coast of Directors, the latter say it is impossible for them to go on with the profits arising from the China trade. To this Ministers give some vague answers; and when they are asked for an explicit one, they very coolly tell the Direc tors, that they are, very welcome to hunt in the Jour nals of the House of Commons for it. From the im mense profits arising from smuggling, being no less - than 95 per cent. on tea. From the extreme facility that would be acquired for carrying on that trade among the almost countless islands of the dian Archipelaips, and from the extreme difficulty OP preventing such a trade, there was the greatest pro ; bability that the'Company's trade with China would be shaken to its foundation by the throwing open of -the Indian trade. Even. Dr. Adam Smith, that ora tie of their opponents, but who, Hitt other 'oracles, is not always understood by his own priests, declares that it is most diffitttlt for any Government to put a check.on illicit traffic: When Ministers were called on to 'declare the exact and specific measures they intended to adopt for the prevention of the illicit shipping of tea in the Indian seas, and its illicit intro duction into this country, they talked of some em bargo measure; such as, that the vessels were to be prevented from 'running along the coast of Ireland and Scotland. But that could easily be surmounted. Except a proposed extension of the Manifest Act, they had proposed nothing for the prevention of its being shipped in the Indian Seas. And what uti lity would that be of among the numerous islands iii those seas, many of them larger than Great Bri tain, and among which we have neither Custom.. house Officers nor Consuls ? When they were aboet to resign this important traffic into the hands of pri vate adventurers, it might have been expected that they would have held out some hope that they would, be able to prevent them from .an illicit traffic, to which they have great temptations and lavish oripor (unities. But the schemes which the wisdom of nisters has produced, gave them evils in the gross,l and remedies in -the detail ; 'all that was bad in their plans was certain, and all that was good contingent. The increase of intercourse, too, be tween Europeans and the natives of Hindostan, was ominous to theace of India, and equally ominous to the saf ety of our own country.— By some this was considered as a phantom of the imagination ; but could any one be so ignorant of past history as to believe it so ? What greater clan. ; ger to a State could be apprehended, thanan uncon.: trolled intercourse between the most enterprising na.. (ion on earth, and one of the most pusillanimous— between presuming strength and unresisting weak-', neis ? A charge has been brought against the Com panyand its servants of injurious haughtiness in the discharge of their duty ; and it had been said, that this would not be the case with private merchants, who must be civil and oosequious to their customers. A proof of this charge, however, he had only been able to glean from a publication well known for its' servility and abusiveness, the Edinburgh Review. But many of these private merchants belong to places tor merlyengaged in the African Slave Trade, and might employ persons who had' been accustomed to all its scenes. Nobody could accuse him of libelling private British merchants ; for he thought that Britain do. served the charac tet of Tyre of old-4 , Her merchants are princes, and her traffic is the honour of the earth." The free Merchants under the Company's different establishments in India now are a most respectable class of men—none more so. But in Lord Clive's time, they were composed of lower characters, who were guilty of the greatest inhumanity towards the natives. But still it was not right, out of respect to the private British merchant, to compliment away the happiness of our fellow•creatures in distant parts. From what Exchequer would they find a remedy for the broken heart of an empire, consisting of 60 mil lions of people ? If its welfare were shaken (as by carrying the question-of r.n open trade it would be), it were easier for the British Barliament to cover the face of the Company's possessions with statutes of security and indemnity to the proprietors of stock, &c. than to re-establish peace and social order in those immense dominions. He hoped the-Govern ment would think better of it, and support the views of the Directors. A Proprietor observed, that the speech of Mr. Hume 4ppeared fitter to be pronounced before the merchants of Liverpool than before that Company. Many had asked what had become of the profits of the China trade ? He should answer generally, that it had been employed in making conquests which were of no material advantage to the Company, but added to the greatness of the British empire. • Mr. ItAPEY said, that hp. was very glad that the speech of the Hon. Proprietor (Mr. Hume) had been heard with so much attention. He hoped that it would be published and generally distributed. He was confident that it would be of much service to the Company that it should be so distributed. He con sidered the speech of the Honourable Gentleman to be the speech of the Minister—the statement of Lord Buckinghamshire. Mr. Hume spoke to order.—He had never spoken to Lord Buckinghamshire, nor seen him to his know ledge : it :'as, therefore,.unfair to call his speech the speech of Lord Buckinghamshire. Mr. Istria' said, that whether he had ever seen Lord Buckinghamshire or not, still his speech might be considered as the speech of Ministers; ands he thought that it was proper, inasmuch as Lord Buck inghamshire was before the public as well as the Company, that his statement should be as generally circulated. He was convinced, that if Ministers had no better arguments to offer than what were adduced by the Hon. Gentleman, the country would be of opinion that the Company was in the right. Great praise WAS certainly due to the industry of the Hon. Gentleman, for collecting such a number of facts as he had adduced in his speech. He, however, did not think, that although the speech of that Gentleman had occupied Considerably more than three hours, one-thirtieth part of what. he had said bore at all upon what was die real question. The questign was 72prWhetlier the Compaspsheed swot that t trade, which for two cennuies had been to the port 'of London, should in . future be . . Aledfinted among the out-ports. Aps to his fasts, W diould not quarrel with him ahont them. Thq anotto . to Tristram Shand?' was a proposiii be firmly assented to,—That it was opinions, anil not facts, which produceditateady all the troubles of mankind. The difference of the Company With the Government was on fdndamental principles, which no facts that could be adduced would ever be able -th shake. The very existence of the Company appeared to him at stake ; and the question for the Court of Proprietors to decide was, whether they would desert their Directors in the arduous and manly struggle is which they are now engaged with his Majesty's Mi nisters, or whether they should support them with heart and hand ? (ifolosiie.) It was not sufficient that they should be themselves convinced of the jos. Lice of their cause, but they had reason to hope.aatat they would have the good ,wishes of an enlightened public, and the support of men of great talents in Par: liament, who would be able finally to obtain a verdict in their favour, the cry which was set up against the CoMpany reminded him of the old story of the MMe hers complaining of the inactivity of the belly. Tbe Company was not inactive. It had been constantly occupied in preparing for the natives of India a mild and beneficent system of Government. It had always Attentively considered whetherany of our maim:fie. tures would suit the markets of the East, and in that case it exported them generally w its own loss. If, nit the other hand, any thing, which was the produce of the East, was wanting to our manufacturers, it care fully provided a supply. The present question, how. ever, was far more important in a political view than in a commercial. It involved the stability of our Con stitution, to which this country had so long been in debted for its happiness. It was impossible to transfer India, and all its patronage, to the Ministers, withosse destroying the Constitution. Mr Pitt, and all thegreal statesmen we have had, always viewed the subjects!, the same light ; and it'was on those principles that be renewed the Charter in 1793. The Late Lord Mel ville, in a letter in the year 1802, stated, "That the ostensible Government in India, with its patronage, must remain as it now is, and that , this could not be questioned by any one who did not wish to risk the freedom of his country for his own personal aggran dizement ;" and yet, now Ministers talked lightly of taking this to themselves, unless the Company should consent th the proposals they now make.— The only title on which the East IndiaCompaay held their power. was a grant of the Great Mogul to their predecessors;—on this ground, they had made war and treaties of peace. 'The authority of the Mogul was gone, but the name was still reverenced ; and if the people of India were told that the East India Company no longer existed, what mischiefs might not ensue ?—they might imagine that they were all transferred to a new master, and their allegiance• would, no doubt, be extinguished. If the Company could nct be said to have a legal right to the empire of the East, they had at least a moral and equitable claim. India had been conquered at their risk and expence ; and even since the renewal of the present charter, the French and Dutch had been expelled, the , Mahommedans and Hindoos had been subdued, and the Islands of Ceylon, Java, and the Mauritius, had been added to the empire. The natives lived in peace and tranquillity under, the present govern ment, the excellence of which had not been denied even by the Honourable Proprietor (Mr. Hume) ; even the enemies of the Company had ceased to revile it. Lord Melville had . said in the House of Commons, that the States under the subjection of the India Company htd attained a degree of happi ness unknown under their former masters ; and their lands, compared with those of their neighbours, were like a cultivated garden contrasted i ith the garden of a sluggard. Such had been Lord Melville's opinion, and such had been the opinion of Mr. Pitt ; and opposed to the sentiments of these great men,. we have now the suggestions and surmises of their puny successors. He should be sorry to speak offen sively and personally of any one ; but the statements of Lord Buckinghamshire appeared to him confused, unintelligible, and contradictory. If it were true, that Ministers had in contemplation a new system of go vernment for India, which would do more good than the present, then it became them, who were nut merely holders of India stock, but also British subjects, to consider the general good as paramount to their own ; what were their particular interests compared with the good of millions (Hear, hear). —But if the present system produced certain happiness, while the advan. tages of the other were only problematical, then let them not suffer themselves to be sacrificed to the petty profits of a few adventurers : let not the limbs of the Company. be scattered among the Out-ports, as a bonus for the loss of the Atherican trade.—(4- islaute.)- -The Company desired to see these argu ments which had influenced the Ministers to their pre sent opinions: but no information was given. If the Company was to be destroyed, surely it was but fair that it should, like the hero of old, demand to perish in the light. In the correspondence between the Di. rectors and the Government, the Directors, who were surely competent to form an opinion on this subict, had hinted at the increased danger of smuggling in opposition to this, an Honourable oprietor had quoted the opinion of a Commis sioner of the Customs, who stated that the most smuggling - existed on the River Thames.--... This observation made against the Hon. Proprietor's argument ; for if the Government could not, with all their vigilance, prevent smuggling on the Thames, which was immediately under their eye, how would they be able to prevent it in the numerous docks and creeks in Scotland and Ireland? The struggle in which the Directors were now engaged was ardu ous and full of difficulties ; but when he saw, the merchants of the first commercial city in the world rushing forward to their assistance, he did not de spair of success. This was not the first battle which the Company had had to fight ; in 1784 they had to contend with a Minister of the greatest talents and most finished eloquence, supported by two-thirds of the House of Commons, and backed by some of the highest families in the kingdom. The Company stood firm, and he failed (ilisrlause), a lasting proof of the sure consquences which must ensue, when private ambition attacks great public interests.— When it is considered that 100,000 tons of shipping, and 14,000 seamen, were employed, and 30,000 de pendents existed un der the Company, Ministers must atneirpause, before, for contingent good, they 0 , 11 , 0 signed the ast-India Company to destruction. concluded by observing, that he thought the Reid, 4 lions wduld be better if worded more s h ort l y. . Mr. HORACE l'eriss stated, in defence tith e c ast pans , ' that if they were monopolists, they were tasohha polists only in expence ; that it was unjust, t h at the advantages which they bad perchased by their blnni and wealth, should now be transferred to other 3 - and that those should reap who had never cout.., to sow ; that the East India Company would not ea . joy the profits of the extension, nor the fair - but the smuggler; that this illicit trade co u ld not, a, was supposed, be checked by regulations, as in the exportation of bullion, notwithstanding , penal enactments ; but smuggling could no more checked by the statute-hook, than vice could be pressed by proclamation, or disease extirpated by of Parliament. He concluded by staling. that it In a bad time to choose for a political experiment, r,... that the commonwealth was in danger. Mr. PLOMEIt enlarged on the clangers of , tion and smuggling be thought the res o l ut i ons much in detath Mr. RANDLE Jetsam said, that the quest fre them involved the awful altersistive, 'who they would consent to the imports of India r brought to the out-ports of this country, or Whet ) other means should be suggested by his M r . Ministers, for the Government of India The , lutions which had been proposed evinced no ordi powers of mind: they had been opposed by demon, of whose speech, however long, he hat an milked auditor, and whose numerical. state were so strong on the face of them, answered, tlAt Gentleman would go out cf ' the with advantage. He should attempt to answer details. It had been hinted that he was the adl of Lord Buckinghamshire; he wished, if it wet that Noble Lord had sheen as much discernment his transactions with the Directors, as he had it choke of his advocate. The Honourable Ge nt ' began his speech by doing away the charge _ gance which had been imrnputed to his Lordship, thus ingeniously, at his commencement, by • fence.of Miuisters, bringing over to his side all persons, who, for whatever purposes, were far of Administration. He considered the letter of Buckinghamshire, as the letter of the Cabinet, the exception of Lord Melville, who could bar supposed so soon to have altered his expressed menus. He did not know that Peer ' • it he had honour, he should advise hi m to tread the steps father, whose whole life was marked by consistency of conduct. The Honourable Proprietor he'd rowed the subject, by saying it was merely a commer , cial one : and no doubt these were his sentiment , - if he had supposed it was loaded with polii consequences, he would hardly have so that Government, and that Indian system ministration, which his arguments tended stroy. He says, that he wishes for no radical change yet in his amendment, he talks of regulations - provisons to be framed, when the political power the Company is annihilated, and the Eastern is no more. Nothing could be motirinconsistent the above declaration, and the subseouent ment. It had been asked, wily the Directors said nothing of indemnification ? it vrouldsurelv more naturally from the Government. Tha nification must be large and liberal; indeed, filters, (not even Jonathan Wild and his would venture to propose such an alteration, . the amplest recompence. What ! were the ports, warehouses, the garrisins of the Company, to given up for the protection of those who were coin loose on their commerce—i-and no indemnificatioi The proposition was monstrous : no compensation had been mentioned, because the negative was I base an idea to be entertained by any person. 1793, Lord Melville had partially opened the at the same time declaring that the Company still, and must still preserve its replaced monopole It would be better for Ministers still to adhere to system ; or, at least, to have amended the rather than attempt to subvert it. But the of England will not suffer such men as the Ministers to overthrow the. system. Mr. Fox, all his mighty talents, fell under the attempt— and it will never be endured that ignobler tures shall lake that spoil for which the lion destroyed for attempting to seize...(cipidasue.)—' `Hon. Proprietor, in his financial statement, had that after the extension of the trade, the private had increaseed, in five years, from 0181,000, £BOO,OOO, and, in ten years, to three millions. under whose auspices had it so risen t It was the care and protection of that system which Honourable Gentleman wished to subvert. The was true, but the inference was very different drawn by the Hon. Gentleman. As to the licences which had been granted by Lord Wellesley, : nisters ought to blush at such an argument. — The distresses which induced Lord Wellesley - necessary act, arose, because the funds of the pony had been applied to other than commercial objects ; they were applied to those great and glorious purposes which had raised the renown of the British name over Europe, and over the world. Mr. Dundas admitted, that the objects of Govern ment and the Company were both the same 1--that the monopoly was essential to our Indian Empire ; that he was prepared to state that it had become inter woven with the whole interests of the country ' • and that it had grown t o more importance to the State than to the Company. Government acted only on the representations of interested individuals. Lord Buokinghainshirehadnot detailed them ; but saidthat they were on the table of the House of Commons.— On those petitions his Lordship bad acted and com mitted himself: yet they contained propositions which no man of ordinary sense could agree to. A great proportion of them, indeed, related to Parliamentary Reform, and the Catholic Question. He hope that when those questions came into the House of Lords. the Noble Lord would remember his partiality to his beloved friends the petitioners, whose op nions on India he so much esteemed, but all.) made that subject only the means of introducing the others- Much of what Mr. Hume said, both the Compaq and Government were bound to answer. That Gen tleman was not very irrelevant in what he said of America ; but he (Mr. R. J.) had always hoped, with respect to the shifting of the seat of trade, that whenever the renewal of the Charter was considered , (for the sttbversiv of it be never dreamt of), the ea I • . 4 A 4 f IdIST 311flpt1:91r interence cumstance had talc his tnemrry. He the Hillsborough Government, and her. to England im The Captain of he he should' be utter] representation, lie take the cargo, h spcnsible for the ar and it could not I* never called on to man had thought them, but he appr fere with the discu Mr. DAVIS thou planation on his p had, some time a India was just as c try; and these w life but he could h If he had been so c there were SO ships of which petitione d because the make rticles. In 179: Aodney arrived : . as he stated in 'h, but that he should B.'s remembrance. met Lord B. at a p now spoke from opinion that his of subscribers to 0 - for the relief of C; might be, the nev tained in Lord B full as much for li his own part, he in this-great questi manufacturers of tl The CIIAiRSIAN tlernan, by saying, tisfied with the tap A Proprietor, that it was impossi `maintitned by the .Out-ports would s( .which had been be .is tbiy were at • (of tbe Out-ports) also.', 'For his •ow 'was notond.. India, by their ow to take away 'the Wroud a pre-emine ould be proof ag the ruin of this Cit try at large. Wal the mad schemes influence flows in finances, and incr believe it possible it • and he therefi and enlarged polic tights, and by th country. , Mr. R. GRANT 'lints thrown out i that the Court of cussion. There cc and for one, he w prietpr (Mr. Hum much of opposition they could bear. the Court with rep dogmatic and dotr but he himehlf hat the Court of Dire were throwing thet sel and support, he motive of doing al .emselves the wh( or the general c milts, he could sa they were, for the sire, and not fount the Americans ha pressly admitted is proposed at the las man had not condi • erived those adva os the source of th arguments of the been perfectly Tele the Orders in Com vernal Ports. He with India and Chi e system establis trade, lie also said, ion by the exertion ery same time, hi adividuals never c • ithout the assistar nsulated instances •onhy Gentleman y of notice. •I .laced the greatest ion, which turned 4 a mon on. H e r R es° Iy. t he Com. re m oiaa, th,it the leir birs4 1(11* hat3C l otribu te d Id not e n . Lit gate, ld no t , a , I was teez n gallthe more b e d be Rip red by at: bat it sea- lent, r,..! coloti n . 144 !Stint; trbet!• lr dia 1 0 ; n? r wherht‘• Majesty', 7he out i• PT a Ger. had be e tote nen.% UnleS! the Court wer these advocate ii were so, c •nment in lad in thu lentlernar ( ;e of arm. •. Lordship, I his de. r all these favourers r of Lo r d iner, with hardly be • Jed send. had that tees of his )nsistency • had rut- IcornMer• L merits, for political • a praise 4 ' n of Ad. hi to de. I changes [ions and r power of rn empire • ;tent that t amend• rctors had • rely come is Judea. d, no MI• wt gang) . 1, pitchout ports, the iy, to be e toile let ification r ipensation was too rson. In • the trade, ay should lonopoly. le to that le system, he people • e present Fos, with '• Ittempt— >bier na• lion was 4)—The had said, ate traffic 1,000, to as. But, ✓as under t . rhich the The fact ot to that e licences sley, Mi. ey to that the Com• mmercial Peat and enown of he world. Govern. te s---that Empire ; inc inter- try ; and the State only on ls. Lord t said that mons.— and corn- Gins which A great amentary hope that at Lords, partiality hose opi• 112..) made be others- OompanT 'hat Gen- ie said of s hoped,' ade, that insidere4 , the net