Star. — London, England, 1827-06-01 00:00:00

.• .. . . respected hit lion. Fr ? eve the obit- nature. Since the gations which the Howell".lobe country n . many re- of his (Mr. Peel's): spects owed him. As would not consider him as an au- dettimeetal tohis Eliot ity Dmit a tjtierine-on any other subject, or look up to Meuse ; and, in him as a model in any matter of general legislation. been observed by Mr. PEEL ought the Hon. and Learned G entle } of the House that I Mghttha_tfelki ? L a consistent and honcntrable cou r s e thin g like the alto •\... in heinVhgtdo n the House upcm this occasion, to the Right Honour state manfully his reason, for the change his opinions correctly stated, that upon _ ongalarsa, bad undergone. He honoured him for this conduct, tleman's going out of office, he had adverted,hivith ho which contrasted very remarkably with that of other nest pride, to the circumstance that he bad preserved H ,n. Members, some of whom had recently j fined his the peace of the country without the aid o any of those Majesty's Government, and who, hoeing Isomer ly op- arbitrary enactments that had been dee iet necessary at posed the Act now sought to be repeated,hmth, great an earlier period, when the Hibeas Corpus was consi violence, shiunk abashed from the exposure of irew in- dered as the only conservative power of the British Com consistency, which they supposed this discussion likely stitution. With respect to the measure under considers to occasi in. He did not think the Hon. and Learned tion, he thought it might with great advantage be con- Gentleman was bound to act at the present day upon sidered by the Attorney-General during the recess. This the opinions he bad expressed when these. Bills were measure, as had been observed, was one likely to bring originally introduced, although he did not entirely agree a degree of popularity to the Government which could with him as to the grounds upon which he ?misted the not tail to be useful to it, and through It to the country. present motion. It was a great satisfaction to him (Mr. His Hon. and Learned Friend (the Attorney General) Peel) to hear a measure which was introduced in 1819 had thrown some doubt opon the motives of the Hon. by the Government of which he was a Member, now Gentleman (Mr. Home) in bringing the motion for in 1827 defended by his Majesty's present Attorney- ward. He would speak more openly, and he regretted General. He rejoiced to hear this ample, though tardy being compelled to do so. But the Hon. Gentleman had justice, rendered to the calumniated name and memo r y p led g ed himself individually to him that he would of his Noble Friend the author of thetepills. It was not bring it forward without the consent of the Attn. to him the most gratifying circumstance thus to find nay General. He would not attempt!o say what the that reparation was at length made for al4tst endea- Honourable Gentleman's feelings ought td be upon the yours to attach dishonour to his exalted chanter. The occasion ; but for himself he would say that he Hon. and-Learned Gentleman was wrong in saying that thought such conduct could not be visited with too this particular Bill experienced comparatively a slight strong reprobation. He did not come to the side of the resistance. It was not true that any amendments had House on which be sat by the circuitous route usually been introduced io it, which had the effect of propi- adopted on such occasions, but he marched over boldly eating the Hon. Members then in opposition. The Bill and unblushingly, because with the cotours of liberality was strenuously resisted to the very last, and the Reuse flying. He looked to the present Administration as divided upon the third leading. At the same time he calculated to raise the interests and glory of thecountry would . admit, that the Hon. and Learn ed Gentleman to the highest pitch. It was an enlightened Adminis was j ustified in the course he was now pursuing. He tration, to Which the interests of the country might be was right in saying that now after the Act had stood confided safely. It was this conviction which induced the test of experience, it could not be regarded in pre- Catholics, Dissenters, and the friends of Reform, from cisely the same light as when first. introduced. But pressing an immediate consideration of their claims. It let him take advantage of the occasion to rescue the was that which induced him, to join himself to that memory of his Noble Friend from the imputations thus Administration, and he would always endeavour to so i recly cast upon him. If the Act, after a trial of eight suppoi t them as well against open and generous foes, years, was now tHliught worthy of an anxious defence; as against insiduous friends. While he sat these, to the if they were now about to sanction it by a l arg e m a k,. best of his power he would assist theM, in repelling rity, as be foresaw they were; it the Hon. and Learned open assaults and invidious attempts to prejudice their Gentleman could now vindicate his owe change of opi. character with the public, and produce aniongtt their nion—still more triumphantly would they vindicate the supporters a fatal schism. • memory of the Noble author of the Act. He was told Mr. CANNING then rose, and spoke to the following that it would check the aspirations of genius, and con- effect :—" Although my Hon. and Learned Friend has demo - some man gifted perhaps like But ke, to hopeless already, I believe, disposed of the question, and although obscurity. All this was now, however, found to have he has.left me but little to say upon the subject, yet, been a mistake, and if it was right to retain the Act Sir, as I am anxious to state the grounds up n which it now, how great must have been the ni cessity for its is my intention to resist the motion of ti e Hon. Member adoption. We now lived in quiet times, blasphemy and for Aberdeen (Mr.Hume),l will troubletbe House with a sedition were almost unknown, both having been cliec- few words. If, Sir,it be that every Member who has op -: tartly suppressed by the good sense of the people. If posed any particular measure in its progress through' i the Act was just and necessary now at this season of this House, is bound to continue that opposition, and to e tranquillity, how amply justified was his Noble Friend support the repeal of that measure alter it has passed into for having proposed the measure, which in its practical a low, the inevitable consequence must be, as the Hon. application was found to have produced none of the Gentleman concludes, that a partial change in the Acht evils which had been predicted as its inevitable results; ministration ought to produce a partial chaose in mea for haying proposed it at a period of great commotion, sures, and that a total change in the Administration and when the utmost efforts were made by a part of the ought to prod y . ce a total change in measures , and that Press to delude and corrupt the people. He recollected all preceding s t atutes should be swept away. But , Sir, t c, that at this period the Grand Jury of Chester had ap - the application f the Hnn. Gentleman's argument to prhached that House or the Throne—he did not accu- my Hon. and Learned Friend, in his capacity as a rately remember which—with a remesentation that the Member of this House, is about as teastmoble as another most industrious efforts were employed to corrupt the argument, which might be applied to him in a capacity lower orders of society, and domestic servants in parti- (in which he excels all others) in that of an advocates cuter, by the distribution of blasphemous and seditious The argument - is, that when you have once engaged tracts. If they referred to the Reports of Sir John to exert your reasoning powers in defending a particular Bytag, they would find that attempts had been made to cause, although the Jury may have decided against seduce no less than six soldiers from their allegiance you, and although the Judge may have declared his within one week. He referred to these circumstances conviction of the correctness of their verdict, and al with a view to defend the memory, and when an attempt though the coun:ry may have repeated and ratified the was made to repeal the measures which be bad intro- decree-.. 1 will, nevertheless, bind you down to the sem dace& and it was resisted by the Hon. and Learned timents which, upon that occasion, you breve professed Member, he thought lie had the opportunity of most —1 will hold you to your opening speech, and c 411 upon triumphantly defending the character of his Noble you to repeat the opinions, which, in the discussion Friend, and the course of policy pursued by the Admi- of the subject, you delivered, for the palpate of nistration of that day—(Clieeis)• producing a particular decision. With respect to The ATTORNEY-GENERAL is exp i amt i on. sa id. the Act which we are now called upon to repeal, I will say, Sir, that if our experience of it is to go he had stated, that he had not originally opposed all the clauses is the Act. He had also mentioned , t hat his Hon. for nothing—if its fixedness as a statute is to go tor nothing—if the acquiescence of the whole country, from Friend the Member for Knaresbotoug h, was absent through indisposition. one end. to the other, in its justness and expediency, is Lord MILTON did not understand w hether the Right to go for nothing—if the oblivion of the whole country, Hon. Gentleman intended merely to v indicate the con- the utter oblivion of the circumstances under which it duct of his Right Hon. Friend , or to a rrai g n the conduct was passed, is to go for nothing-1 can at once perceive and acknwledge the expediency and the necessity of re of others. Whichever was his intention, he appeared to pealing that Act; but if not, Sir, I conceive [lyric nothing him to have signally failed. The a h ole mass of mea can be more preposterous than the desire that we should sures were not vindicated by the resistanc e of his Hon . of one o f go back, and cad for its repeal, bec aus e it and Learned Friend to the separate re peal h ad been ve hemently opposed at its enactment. If, Sir, the opera them, and that the one which had be e n t he least ob j ected tion of this Act had been found oppressive, or incon ro at the period ortheir introduction. Some of those Acts which yet remained upon the Statute Book ought venient to the public, if it had disappointed the just to be repealed, and particularly that which imposed hopes respecting it that wereentertained, or if, in curing the punishment of transportation upon the second evils of one description, it had produced evils of auo conviction for a political libel. The conduct of his Ma. ther descripti in, and of greater magnitude, I should jesty's present Government with respect to the Act he at once perceive the necessity for complying with the had mentioned, would determine in his mind the degree desire which had been expressed; but, under the existing of confidence to which it was entitled. It was of little circumstances, I cannot but see that it is impossible.— importance whether this repeal took place this year or And now, Sir, after what has fallen from me,with respect the next, and that might account for the absence of those to the repealing of this Act, do I mean to say, that Hon. Members upon whom the Right Hon. Gentleman because certain Acts ate in our Statute Book, they are had animadverted. He begged leave to remind the also to be immortal? No, Sir; but what I mean to Right Honourable Gentleman, that in the exposition say is, that the question of repeal must stand simply of his conduct upon retiring from office, he took very upon its own grounds, without reference to other cir considerable credit to himself fur having suffered some cumstances, to the opposition which the measure of those Acts to expire. may have originally encountered, or to its success. Mr. PEEL-1 aid, but they were intended to be —The question now before us, Sir, is not what temporary. the nature, or what the quality, or what the de- Lerd MILTON was then entitled to infer, that even gree of opposition to the passing of the measure in the estimation of the Right Hon. Gentleman himself, may have been, but it is if in the law itself there be the while of those Acts were not unobjectionable. any thing positively noxious; if in its operation there Mr. PEEL explained. The opposition had been mi. be any thing so absolutely mischievous, and so inteler tigated with respect to some of the Acts, but that now ably inconvenient, as to make it imperative upon Par under consideration had been most strenuously opposed torment, at this precise moment, to decide upon its re throughout. He had stated, and he had no objection peal. lit favour of this proceeding it has been argued, to repeat, that the Right Hcia. and lion. Gentleman to that because there existed a system of laws, some of whom he had alluded would haae taken a better and a which were perishable, those that were perishable ought more manly course it they had followed the example of to communicate their mortality to the rest. Now, Sir, his Hon. and Learned Fiiend, and attended to oppose really this argument is so extraordinary, and so insects the motion, instead of absenting themselves. tibiae:, my judgment, that I know not how to deal with . Mr. LENNARD expressed his intention to oppose it. 11, Sir, all these laws bad been made together, and the motion, although there were several clauses in the it one of them had been afterwards repealed, and we Act of which he aid not approve. Het xisre,sed his were then called upon to repeal all that remained, the intention of giving his entire confidence to his M ijesty*s c ise would be widely different ; but, Sir, in the present Government. instance, Parliament judged, after mature deliberation, Sir R. WILSON said, that although he could awe- and after lteatiog arguments upon every side, that some ciate the motives which had influenced the Right Ho. of the e Acts should be perpetual, whileothers which had nourable Gentleman . (Mr. Peel), he yet thooght that been rendered necessary only by circumstances of a tem eulogiumssucb as he bad indulged in upon his departed purer), nature, ought to expire with thosecircumstaoces Fvieltd wete indiscreet, because likely to provoke dig- sinus which they had thrived their birth. With respect CU4IIOII, which could net be of other than an unpleasant to those intended to be permanent, Parliament width, _ . subject, you would be obliged to travel from one end of the cou try to the other; and tell the people that such a law existed—(Hear, hear, hear.) And I will say, Sir, that a more wan on attempt at excitement to produce a consequence, is not to be found in the whole history of Parliamentary proceedings--(Hear, hear). 1 shall now say a lew words with respect to the liberty of the press, and the effect which this law is supposed to exercise upon it, and will ask, Sir, if a foreigner who had, for the first time, placed his foot upon this soil— or even if an Englishman, who had been for, we will say, ten years absent from hoiue, was called upon to state what he considered to be the peculiar grievance under ' which we labour, would he not say—" Why, you have nothing printed here—you have no free discussions upon public measures. What has become of your rights mad privileges as Englishmen? Why do ,you abstain from public men and from private character ? In short, have you no such thing left as type and paper in this country of yours?."—(Hear, and laughter). Now, Sir, I will just beg of you to consider for a moment, what is the great grievance of which the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Hume) complains ; and what is the end and object of the measure he proposes; and we will then see laow the vacuum, which he laments so deeply, can be supplied. With this view, Sir, let us observe, what description of publications it is that this law is calculated to prevent. In the first place, they must be blasphemous. Well; let us have blasphemous publications by all means— (A laugh.) In the second place, they cannot exceed two sheets. Let us, then, have two-sheeted blasphe mous publications. In the next place, the author must valise the produce of his brains under sixpence. Well, Sir, then let us have blasphemous, two-sheeted, under sixpenny, publications. The Honourable Gentleman opposes the prevention of them upon general princi ples, and declares that the prevention creates a great defect ; and to supply this great, and melancholy, and deplorable, defect of blasphemous, two-sheeted, and under' sixpenny, publications, calls upon all parties— upon those who had opposed, and upon those who had supported, the measure which be deprecates, to lay their hands to the hallowed work of restoring to the eye of day those blasphemous, two-sheeted, vile-priced, publications—(Hear, and laughter). But I believe, Sir, I can inform the Honourable Member, that all this is not aecessary—there is a much better and shorter course of proceeJing. Let any Gentleman, who is blasphe mously disposed, and who has a stock of blasphemy upon hand, that he is anxious to dispose of—let him, to the two sheets, add a third—let him, instead of an interval of twenty-six days between publica tion, take eight.and-twenty days—slet him screw his courage to the sticking place," and instead of 6d.charge bid. and he will evade the law—(Hear, hear, and im mense laughter). In fact, Sir, the y persons who would derive any, the least, benefit from the repeal of this law, would be those who, with a disposition to blaspheme, Were yet either too modest to think of pub lishing more than a second sheet, or possessed too tender a regard for the pockets of the public, to venture upon adding the additional halfpenny, which would free them rem the prohibition under which they are restrained— (Hear, hear, and great laughter). For myself, Sir, I mast say, that notwithstanding what has fallen from the Honourable Gentleman opposite, I do not con sider the grievance to be one of first rate magnitude, nor one under the infliction of which the people of England are made m writhe at present. Ido not think, Sir, that there is at this moment that great deficiency of gross abuse and unlicensed vituperation, which would, render it necessary for us to open a new sluice, by the, repeal of this Act—(Hear, hear). I say Ido not think this necessary, but at the same time, I will also declare my conviction, that there never was a period at which' really uselol information was circulated at so cheap a rate, or at which, by consequence, it was so widely diffused amongst the lowest classes in society. This, Sir, I consider the peculiar characteristic of these times, and in this I conceive they-differ from those in which the Act was passed. By this Act all the advan tages that can result from a freedom of publication ate left untouched, while it is purged of its gross impurities ; and, Sir, highly valuing as I do, the press, as the source of wholesome information, I shall conclude by express. ing my hope and trust, that the House will never consent to poison the healthful stream, by letting out a stream of vile pollution, which has happily been dammed up." (The Right Hon. Gent. sat down amidst loud cheering.) Lord HOWICK said, that be did not agree a ith his N.ible Friend below film, in thinking that this was a subject of comparatively little importance ; on the con trary, he thought the law in question was of a tendency much more mischievous than many others. The penalty of banishment, from its severity, as well as the other re strictions, must operate as a constant clog on the energies of the Press. He would rest his support of the present motion, if there were no other grounds, upon this fact alone, that the law, as it at present stood, threw ob stacles in the way of cheap publications,which were alike impediments to those of a proper and improper so. r. Mr. BARTLEY said, that he opposed the motion, because the present was not a proper time for such a proposition, as the Ministry had only been just formed —(Hear, and a laugh) Sir J. NEWPORT rose, amidst criesof question. He said he could not see any thing in the Act which did not equally affect newspapers, and he saw no reason why publications of the description alluded to by the Act should not be subjected to similar restrictions, and unless the Hon. Mover was prepared- to go the length of doing away with the stamp duties, and other regula tions, he ought not to succeed in his present motion.— He had never given an opinion upon this Bill before, but, now that a motion was made for its repeal, he hoped it would not be carried, and he would give the motion his cordial °position. M . WARBURTON said, that at the commencement of the session the Hon. Member for Wincheisea had espressed his wish for the repeal of the Act in question, ' wherefore it could not be said not to have been thought of by the country. He, however, wished. that a Bill to amend, rather than a motion to repeal, the Act had been brought forward, because other Hon. Members would have given their support to such a course of proceechng. There was enough, however, to shew, that the principle of the Bill was bad, and on that ground he would !rote for the motion—(Question, question.) Mr. HUME rose to reply. He said he would shew that many of the Members, who had opposed his motion, event which terminated the exigence 'paled that difficulties might continue to exist, or might, Noble Friendhad taken place, nothing after an interial, arise again, and, therefore, to *wild Character had seea allnded to in that the necessity of again framing such, were anzititruthat fact, a delicacy upon the subject had th.:y should remain spots the Statute Book ;, isnd, Ste, I those who sat upon shisieppo-i , e side will now ask the House, is there any thing so outrage• t ought to have sired them from any °tidy objectionable in this law at least? Are we loudly osions which had been made use of by called upon by the voice of the country to repeal it ? It able Gentleman. A Noble Lord had Why, Sir, the voice of the country never was so silent. that upon the Right Honourable Gen- If you wanted to obtain the popular opinion upon the _ tea Its..el from nne end could never have read the Act at 1, and that the LEN things alleged by the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite (Mr. Canning) did not apply to it at As to what had been said by the Gallant Officer (Si r tt. Wilson) that he came there equally ready to opp ose an open foe, or an insidious friend, he should Observe that if the terms were meant to bt applieJ to him (Mr. Hurter they were totally inapplicable; but as thst Gan," Officer had alluded to a private conversation which had taken place, and as the Atimney•Gen-ral had al l ; mentioned a correspondence. he should only say that both the Honourable Members were under a mistake; The Attorney-General was mistaken i n saying, that he gave any consent to withdraw the mo t i on on the first conversation. It was on the 2d or 3d, an d he ap: postpone it ; then it was that the Gallant Offittf came to him and made a similar proposal, t p o ealed to the Secretaty to the Trea,ury, who a.kFd 14 0 Sir R. WILSON—No. that if the At torney -G eneral ' n in a way he wou ld propose it Mr. HUME—I say yes. The Gallant ()rte. r am( s w p o o u k l e d t a o n h sw im er , a an g d ue s s a t i i d o to him in his place, as he knew there was a division in the Cabinet—(A laugh)--he would agree n, t to bring the 'notion forward. The House was occupied until a late hour about the Peoryn election, and he had not the opportunity of petting the question. On manure reflection, however, the neat day, and not having gives any pledge, he wrote to the Attorney-General e of which be had kept a copy. It was dat , morning—the better day, said the Hon. I the better deed. Here the Honourable Gent a note, stating in substance " that it was able determination to bring the motion Ii less the Attorneys General would take it and thereby secure a just popularity to the ministration." He would tell the Gallant r or anywhere else, that there was not an :41 would not bear the scrutiny of public laugh)—and, if be was so unfortunate able to change his opinions as easily long as he did not find fault with them he hoped he might be allowed to use his o , about his own acts. He had also written Officer, and he wished him to read the (Mr. Hume) would read his (Sir R. Wit It would then be seen how fir there was making this a personal question. Sir R. WILSON.—Read it—(Order, Mr. HUME continued to argue that the Ge itleman (Mr. Peel) had answered the the Attorney-General, and that there wa. in the Bill which would have had the Learned man's support if he continued on his side -' He alai expressed his astonishment that a k . acuteness of the First Lord of the Treasury and director of the House of Commons, down as a position, that the duty of a Memo ment was similar to that of an Advocate The A:avaxsa•GsrtsAL read the 9th Section. Mr. HUME.—Oh, the title—(A hot Right Hon. Gentleman's arguments had was against blasphemy, two sheet works, pamphlets, and that all that was wanted Hume) was to " let in the sluice" of al! tt public—(Laughter). But there was nothi the Act ; it was only provided, that if a man before a Magistrate, charged with selling mous work, that a certain course should I CThe lion. Gentleman here re.id the elm , particular power to a sirgle Magistrate ii —(Hear, and laughter.) He concluded . hoping that they would remove every sha, liberty of the Press if they wished to reser' , opinion of the people. Sir R. WILSON begged to say, in order any misrepresentation, that if he did not into explanation, it was solely from deference House, and not by any means from acquiescence accuracy of the statement of the Honour for Montrose. Mr. PEEL also said, that although aware that public opinion had been an exi to the extension of blasphemous publicat would be very sorry to give up the pow' this law. Mr. CANNING said, that the Hon. Montrose had supposed him to have been with the Act, when he stated it referred He begged, therefore, to call the Hon. Gel tention to the preamble of the Act, *I recited, that it was intended to suppress tions, and also to the enacting clause, was repeated, and particular powers purpose. After a few words from Lord W. Rossur., expensing to the motion, the House divided. For Mr. flume's motion Against it Majority against the motion •LI 1100511. Mr. ESTCOURT moved for leave to bring tinue, for one year, the present Act, that of 54 t. ceneing Ale Houses. He was induced to propose proceeding to the House, from a conviction that possible in the present Session to bring forward ; upon the subject that was likely tribe acceptable Mr. HOBHOUSE seconded the motion. He it in his power to inform the House. that the very Vesninittee yesterday was, to recommend that In sure, the very r idi cu lous provision in the prescr Ate Houses at eleven o'clock, should be got rid • framers of the Act were Influenced by moral motives eon, however, had anything but a moral effect. Mr. Secretary BOURNE believed it would . Creme such an Act as would be equally appi cable country. He had no doubt, however, that the C endeavour to frame the Bill 112 the manner best gkereral satisfaction. After a few words from Mr. Hula and Mi. .given to bring in the Bill. ausrsreas re nutcase. Mr. GOULBURN obtained leave to bring the Acts relating to Provision for Miuisters in rate Towns in Ireland. The same Han. Miasma also obtained leave tc consolidate and amend the Laws relating to the Uf of Parishes in Ireland. The object of the norm' subject such onions to the control of the Lord Lieui, Sir JOHN NEWPORT. expressed his approbatia measures COVIDITRY MAGISTRACr. Sir JOHN WROTTESLEY moved the Or the second reading of the Coventry 3lagistracy Mr. CROK ER said be should oppose the lilll the Speaker's leaving the Chair. The Bill was read a second time, and ordered on Thursday next. The Honse went into a Commktee upon the Corn Captain GORDON moved an Amendment the object of which was to obtain the average* Ireland as well as Britain. After some discussion the Committee Welded, peared— For the words of the Clause For the Amendment Nlajority The reraainin Cla es, with solos verbal .• . 4 J ~i !nem! Se — note, dated Sunchy n. Gentleman, ientleman read as his nnaltet. torwa.d, un. it on himself, o the New Ad. int Officer there, al of his which lic opinion —(A to as not to b e r as others, so .na for doing so, is own discretion n to the Gallant he letter, and b e Wilson's) answer. as any ju,tice in T. order). the Right Hon the argument of was not a claim Learned Gentle. de of the Houle. t a person of the asury, the leader • as, should lay it !ember of Paths • tte in a cause. e Title and the langh). But the sad been, that it Is, and sixpenny ted by him (Mr. those upon the othing of this in • man was brought ing any blasple• ild be adopted-- giviog the e in such cases.) led his reply, by ):rereserve the gooa s s h e a r cklernithe order to present t then go further deference to the quiescence in the mutable Memba gh he was fully n excellent check slications, yet he sorer conferred by lon. Member far een unacquainted ed to hl4,phevoy. t. Gentleman's at. , which 'weedy ess such public► e, in which at rs given fir * , expressing hiring 10 Ito ring in a Bill tor* 5.1 Geo. IV. tot Li• repose this mai 'that it woo:dile* Ar r bli d tievinee a tor n wys y nasaliyal ; pitil w asatridurt mes s a n ies:togr.b: etas Law fur &an id of. No rills tb! maim; this pro isid be impossilie nuepbog l ie.na c piscon a npeakc hie uraia:Bisin i ta n :i:tioteti c ntleeo o oead urn snacoliorrozeie wi iiii its r :1 Order i t uu e ereu b i,to r i eo; ll nfe g aart ! th: B . :lo U : ll : ty !AIL litU ou the 911 60°4 ii erect r C orn frontldo niunwanebelhosoitlesecat:lB:ef::::