Star. — London, England, 1808-05-11 00:00:00

PAL himENT'A k PROCEEDINGS. • HOUSE bF LGiLDS; MAY 16: The Hotise was employed for a Consitierobie tine in beerini Counsel on the Roxburgh Appeal. A !evilly heating on Thurs day next. . The Irish Clergy Bin and the Irish Glebe flute *ere lirought ap frbm the Commons, and read a Brit time. . The gills on the Table were forwarded in their raiicctivesrages. Several Accounts from the Treasury were presented by Mr. Woodford.—Ordered to lie on the Table: iitifinLATENT DEBTOR& Lord DERBY presented Petitioni from teetain iriisonesa ecim fined for Debt in the faili of Lancaster aiid Liverpool, praying for relief.—Ordered to lie on the Table. ? HOLLAND also presented 6o om Pris n r confined in the Fleet Prison, apd in the Jail of the City of ',venter. His Lordship made akw observatioiu on the ne . lissity of grounding som measure on Petitions of this nature, wbieh pressed. upon the humanity of at House from 16 many quarters.—Ordered to lie on the Table. DA$l3ll SHIT!: Lord V;scount SU)MOUTH rose, in conipliance ivita the wish of several Noble Lordi s - ta state the ground of his intended motion, relating to the Danish ships. It appeared by the Papers laid before the House, thit 380 Danish teasels had been detained in British ports before Government had recourie to hostllitie Many of these ships had entered our ports voliiiiiarily; • notwith standing which their crews had been treated as prisoners of war, and the ships considered prizes. As these *buses were contrary to the bOnOtir and dignity of the national charieter, it was his in tention to move several Resolutions : namely; " That the seamen and Vessels so detained should not be consi dered Lawful captures. " That the proceedings against them in the Admiralty Prise- Courts should be suspended " And, finally, That the House should declare the practices al luded to, illegal." _ REVERSION sat. Lord HAWKESBURY moved the order of the day for the Second reading of this Bill. After .sta tins the origin of the Bill, he observed, that it became their Lordships to examine it with circumspection and jealousy. It had formerly occupied their attention in a different shape, and it had been related. It was no longer aßill to suspend all Places in Reversion, but a measure to suspend, for a limited period, the grant= ing of Places in Reversion pending the inquiries of a Committee in the House of Commons. It was not a general measure, but one established on abroad prin ciple, and in that sense ought to be Viewed by the House. The prominent objection to the Bill was, that it wit dangerous, inasmuch as it went to ifestrict the prerogative of the Crown. On that Objection he should say, that it did diminish rather than increase the Royal prerogative ; but if it appeared necessary on any occasion to advise the Sovereign not to exer cise those powers vested in him, such advice was bet ter communicated by the vote of both Houses of Par liament than by an address; When he save his opi nion respecting the Bill on a former day, he opposed it, because its real principle and tendency remained unknown. It was now more definite, and he gave it his support as a measure inore likely to produce the desired effect that in its former shape . . Lord REDESDALE r•se to oppose the Bill. He did not expect that his observations would i educe their Lordships to refuse the measure, because lie saw a strong dispositioa on the part of many Noble Lords to sanction it, but he should derive much satisfaction in declaring his protest against it. The measure was dangerous to the constitution. ft had been framed upon rumours and reports, the truth of which the House could not determine ; and their Loidships were called upon by such a Bill to adopt an innova tion calculated to abridge the Crown of its pre rogative. The three estates forming tilt Consti tution ought to possess equal weight to preserve the harmony of the whole, but this Bill gave the Commons power over the Aristocracy, by its in: fluence over the prerogative vested in the Monarch. —lt was an innovation which would become a pre tedent, and the system of reform, the foundation of the Bill, Would go on until the Constitution was overthrown, and the country reduCed to the state it was in about the year 164.1. He called upon the House to pause before they received the Bill, and ex pressed a hope, that it would not be too hastily adopted, The Earl of GROSVENOR considered the Bill by its preamble to be incapable of producing much utility, but at the present time, when the public feel ings had been sn much agitated and distressed by re ports of financial, abuse, he thought the Bill, ought to be adopted, as the first step to reform. The Noble and Learned Lord who had just sat dawn entertained sentiments of a serious description relative to the term Reform. Did any one imagine, that the reform allu ded to applied to the constitution ? It was generally acknowledged, that abuses had taken place in the ex penditure of the public money, and in that instance reform was necessary, particularly while the people were called upon to make great pecuniary exert ions. He had expected that the Bill would not have met with opposition, and was surprised to hear the Noble and Learned Lord entertain so bad an opinion of it. I He considered it a measure likely to prove beneficial, because it would afford satisfaction to the people. It was the first step to reform of financial abuses, and whether it did or did not effect what it purpoited, he received it as the foundation of a system highly neces sary, and consequently gave it his support. Lord MOIRA opposed the Bill, and considered it inefficient. If he should be accused of standing forth in defence of sinecures, and the abuse of finance, it could not he said he was interested, as neither he, nor any of his relations, enjoyed a great share of the public money. The Bill was an intuit to the people, and could never remedy the abuses complained of.— Reform might apply to many existing abuses ; but this Bill appeared framed to draw the attention of the public to objects of minor importance. It was alitub thrown out to the whale. He had occasion recently to bring before the House a most melancholy fact, when speaking on the Insolvent Debtors' Bill : a poor widow had been thrown into prison for a debt of three pounds, contrasted ft. bread for her infants : the costs upon this clehthintamted to fourteen pounds; and he wished to intim how much of this money went into the pockets of thlharks in the Courts of Law, who 'held offices in teversion—(Hear! hear! hear !)—ITe did not think fie could point out a stronger case in favour of abolishing reversionary When he spoll of abuse!, the huge vo of assessed taxes was worthy of attention. , was ready to admit that refiatit in the ex tditure of the public y 'Vas requisite • but . was not to be effX at one blow. +here 4 many objects of reform, and it was necessary begin with those of the greatest magnitude. The had beeftime popular, because it proposed a re- ifiedy for the abuses wi 1k cohagaiht i tittt ihg duce the desired effect. length against the clout and highly disapproved Lbrd MORTON tr naircowly into the Bill. and sent back to the Commons. It now tame - before the Hone in a new form, but it was still dangerous to the Constitution, an I ought not to be received by the House: Lord HOLLAND did not tilmn td speak upoii the Bill when he entered the House, because lie un derstood there was no intention on the part of the Noble Lords to oppose it; but when he heard the Bill opposed by observations fainded on new points, he was desirous of saying a few words on the subject. The Noble and Learned Lord had said, that the Bill Would destroy the Constitution; . and his Noble Friend (Lord Moira) had said. the Bill *as . delusive, and would do no good. So far these Noble Lords Were' ' at variance in their opinions. The Ncible and Learned lAA had told the House, that the Rill would turn the Cnnstitirticin into a repUblic, and the lamentations Which the Noble Lord had Made for the downfall Of tinettres Was not very consoling to the people, note groaning under heavy burdens. He considered the . Bill a grand victory and trininph over tho itsteiti of abuse, which had prevailed over all branches of fi nance. The evil advisers, and that party who gad so long governed by intrigue. Ministers ought at all times to have the responsibility of Government; and Ihe trusted that Government would always act at they had done by the present Bill, in. Spite of the se cret influence about the throne, and that they would never sell the right's of the people to obtain a majority in that House. The liberty enjoyed in the country was founded on the protection afforded by. the Aris tocracy of the country to the people; and the Welfare and prosperity of nations depended upon the affection of the people to their Nobles. The Noblet of other countries had laid the people at the foot of the throne, and those Nobles afterwards. were not only dekPised by the petiple for their venality, but discard ed With disgrace by the Sovereign. Stich had been the. Ease in Destr.iik, trance, and in a country, Which, from recent events, had become very interest ing, he meant Spain. In that country, the ancient Corte reset/Aired our Parlithient, and were the bul wark of the national freedoin: In the year 1522; during the reign of Charles the Vth, the popular cry in Spain was strongly for the redressing of certain grievances • !nix Most of the Mobility of the country ranged theraeliet about the king, Who, by their assistance, Was strong enough to resist the wishes of his people, and to crush what Was called a rebellion. About fifteen years afterwards, those Nobles wished for the redress of certain grievantes ; but all the re turn which they received for their attachment to the Monarch was, the folk/king message,. i. Go back to your bottles, his Majesty has no further occasion for your services." Shortly after, the Carta was entirely discontinued in Spain, and from that time the liberty of that country was gone, and its prosperity rapidly declined: It appeared to him, that whoever consider ed with attention the hiStDry of other countries, would not suppose that this country could gain by following precisely the same course as that which had led to the degradation of so many oWker countries. In the reign of Charles 11. it had been waiinly recommended to the House of Peers, by Lord Clifford, to unite themselves around the throne, and to oppose the publie Wish, and the vote of the House of Commons. That imprudent speech was answered by King Charles's own Chan cellor, Lord Shaftesbury, whb shared the ithOolicy ' of the Nobles forming themselves into a party against the nation. King Charles stoat satisfied with the rea soning of the Chancellor,. but his brother James was highly indignest at Such an opposition proceeding from a Lord Chancellor, and said to the King,— " Odzooks, Brother, what 2 „ rogue you have got for a Chancellor f" The King replied, " Odsfish, Brother, what a fool you hare got for a Treasurer !" (Lord Clifford being Treasurer to the Duke.) He could not agree in the glooMy apprehension's Which, some Noble Lords entertained from conceding something to the public opinion. He, on the contrary, liked the Bill much better for coming to the House with such a re commendation. Neither could he agree with his Noble Friend (Lord Moira) that the measure WAS of little importance i he thought it of itself a Measure of great impqrtance, by dinimiahing somewhat of the corrupt and unconstitutional influence which evil ad visers might recommend to be turned against the in terests and freedom of the country. He thought it still more important, as holding out a hope to the people of this country that other measures Would be adopted for alleviating their b :rdens, by introducing economy in the expenditure of the public money, and that the Minister. of the country would not suffer themselves to be govenaed by a secret and unconsti tutional influent:. Lord SOMERS strpoited the Bill, and felt him. self mole "strongly induced to do Yo, by the attempt that had been made to defeat this salutary measure by a party prv.euding to call themselves, in an etclu sive sense, the friends of the CroVen," While they were endeavouring to thwart the measures of his Majesty's 'Government, and to over-rule the ostensible and responsible Ministers of the Crown. Such con duct as this appeared to him to be sapping the very vitals of the Constitution, and he hoped that no Mi. nister would submit to this secret and mysterious in fluence, which would not meet the light, and which the Constitution was unacquainted with. Pressed as the people of this country are with burdens sshich are necessary, he thought it was natural for them to corn plain of what was unnecessary, and that their just crimplaints should not be called clamour, but that they deserved the most serious attention of that House. The question was then put on the second reading of the Bill, and teas carried without a division. After some routine business the House adjourned. HOME OF COMMONS. The Grampound I•:ketion Committee reported, that the right of el. etion for that Borough vested in the Mayor, and the bur gesses, reside:t and non-resident, and that the rett.ri.ed Members were not duly elected, and ought not to have been returned, but that the Hon. Coehrane Johnstone and Mr.llolntes ought to Lave been returned. The Clerk of the Crown was ordered forthwith to attend and amend the return. The Flat ing Bill, the Militia Pat! Bill, the Irish Militia Pay Bill, ,lilitia Adjutants, and Militia Subalterns Allowance Bill, were real the third time,palsed, and ordered to the Lords. Mr. WY NINF po►tponed to Monday the further consideration of the Luitatics Bill. The Million and a Half Exchequer Bills Bill, and the Three Mlllians Fithequer Bills Bill, Went theorgh a Committee, and Weft ordered to be reported to-morrow. House weneasto duty on cork. dl the al higher imported into duty should be es. be received th- Wit, after a few and Mr. HOR NER; filet ft* to:psbirohi. The Irish Soap Duties, and the Irish Assessed Taxes Bill, were each read a third time and passed. The second reeding of the Dublin Pollee BM was postpdaed till so-morrow (this day). HIS MAJF3TI MusenGis. Tie CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then brought up a Message from the King, which was to the following effect : a G. R. i ti sbi~ . . " His Majesty ands it neceisary tb state to the House of Com mons, that in consequent& bf the dinultrous defeat of the King et Prussia in 030 autumn of 1806; and of the death of the Duke of Brunswick ; his Majesty's sister, the Onset* of that illustrious Prince, was compelled to seek an asylum in this country. On bee arrival here his Majesty appointed bee an establiiliment out of the Civil List ; but there being no regular provision fde lack an expenditure, his Majesty recommends it to his faithful Coa taons enable him to make good the same; and his Majesty, on a subject so ispeicating to bit obrn feelings; and the honour and dignitY of kis Crown, Mies on the liberality of his faithful Com mons to enable bin to carry his wishes into effect:" His Majaty's Message was referred to a Committee of Supply, and the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER gave notice that he Mould to-morrow submit a motion on the subject. ASSESSED TAXIS. Mr. WHARTON thought up tht Repoli of tie Assessed Taxes BM Mr. WARDELL wished to ask a quested on the subject of the Assessed Tales. He wished to know whether the having • a fur:- iiiihed buse iiiiinhabited subjected the possessor•to the different ditties ? He believed that in some districts the cii&ctors exacted the duties in such a case; though in others they did not. The.CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER salli it was pro bable that the difference in tie practice of the Culktors might arise from circumstances not attended to by the Honourable Gen tleman. He wad not preParedidi de Ititiked into the Acts of Par liament on the subject; to give a decided answer to the HotiOur. able Gentleman, but he stiould be able to do so to-morrow. Mr. ROSE and Mr. HUSKISSON observed, that if the house thus furitiated was left to the care of a serially then of course the possessor paid the different duties on lights, &c. The Repoli was then agreed to. The Bill was then oadeitd to belread a third time on Thursday. SIR HOME POPHAM. ' Mr. LUSHINGTON lost to move for a Copy of the Proceedings of the Court of King's Bench, in the cause Paxton and others v. Sir Home Popham and others. As he believed that no opposition would be niade to the motion, he should content himself with merely moving for the paper in qiiiistinti. Sir HOME POPHAM said he certainly had no objection to the production of thii'petier, though it relattd merely to a private transaction, in which he believed the Public could have little or. no interest. He could not help nbticittg, however, the Wonderful industry with which the charges made against hirn by the Honourable Gentleman had been circulated under every form, and blazoned to the world. On this ac count, it tnight not be improper for him to give a short history of that transaction, Which led to the legal proceedings in question. About twenty years ago, be had embarked in a mercantile speciilation with a Mr. Macarthur, and certain other individuals, which was followed by certain legal proceedings; but they were conducted 'entirely by - Mr. Macarthur's Solicitor, and he knew neither directly nor indirectly the bearings of those proceedings. This he stated to the House upon his honour • it was confirmed by a letter which he had receive d from Mr. Macarthur to that effect. He was surprised, however, that the Honourable Gentle man should Moire for a copy of these proceedings, since there were other legal proceedings consequent on the confiscation of the ship Etrusco, which might probably have served his purpose better. He had ensured to the amount of 6Q,0001. on that ship, and on suing for the amount of the insurance he was non_ Suited, on the ground of its being a transactioa arising out of an illegal trade. Mr. LUSHINGTON said, it was the first time he had heard of the transaction which the Honourable Captain had just mentioned ; but his only object in 1 the present Inc:akin Was to shew, that there had been a continued practice of illegal trading tin the part of the Honourable Captain, and therefore that the plea of ignorance as to the illegality of the trade, contained in the Memorial of the Honourable Captain, presented to the Treasury, was not perfectly correct. The Honourable Captain must have known, before he pre sented that Memorial, that the illegality of the trade was proved by the proceedings iu the Court of King's Bench. Sir HOME POPHAM replied, that the Honour able Gentleman might Vet froth his Memorial, triat it was founded on the belief that the trade was not ille gal, and on the circumstance of the reception which he met with from the Government in India, which served to shew that he was in some degree authorised by them to carry on trade.—The papers were then ordered. On the motion of Mr. LONG, there was ordered to be laid before the House a copy of a Minute of the Treasury, dated the ith of August, 1804., respecting the Memorial of Sir H. Popham. 20%./ WIS... i grants. bine d —He v penditur reform I were ma • to begin • Bill had iiiki rhieh became the sl i er of ,be ' aiiikies el Mt. ItheitiMbii; WI _Heusi - pubic C . iso eohildet of the Act Mato( *Hee do if Bill, was ihad44 41 1 12- , ' , Mr. HUSICISSON Ot,ptera t. The Noble Ear et a ir - as imposed lei a readi4oade ask s 1 OA and uncertathty Of the Bill, Gent !Idylls, sod snoved,* that bele:don't the dutj ed of it. . ' free elk which *es agreed t 0,,. and elth Itepoit to t called tiObii the Mouse to iool metTc'w - The second ieetting el tie teen fddeee BM Otis I. It had been formerly rejecce , wom b f rom ?d r. B A Nxig, Dirt.vnirr BREAD, a • I` A ... . . ... • A DEMISED HEREDITARY REVENUES OF THE CROWN. Mr. BIDDULPH rose to make his promised Mo tion, relative to the Demised Hereditarf Grants of the Crown. He wished that the opinions of the Attorney and Solicitor General, in the year 1772, should be sub mitted to the Special Committee which he intended to move for. At the beginning of the present reit,u those Lands might have been comparatively inconsiderable, but it would appear from the First Report of the Sur veyor-General of Land Revenues, on the Ist of De cember 1797, that those Revenues had considerably increased, and did not at present amount to less than .C 200,000. This sum was of too serious an amount not to make It a question of importance that it be net abused. The Honourable Gentleman then xert into a long detail of the Awry and law of Crown Lands, and strongly censured the i:eglect and abuse that too much prevailed in the management of the great Fo rests of the country. He concluded with moving, " That a Committee be appointed, to consider the 3d of his present Majesty, respecting the Demised Revenues of the Crown which were to be carried to and made part of the aggregate hind, and how far they were so applied." Mr. ROSE questioned the accuracy of some of the Honourable Gentleman's statements, and denied that the present amount of the Demised Crown Revenues exceeded £350.100, out of which £170,000 or L'12,000 went - to various charges. He disapproved of a Spe cial Committee, and thought the Finance Committee, of which the Honourable Gentleman Iva; a Member, fully adequate to any desirable cbjeci the Honourable Gentleman had in view. btu sieertlt replied. whr:l y e 12—Noes, 37.—Majorif CORATIS. Mr: P . ERCEVAL moved the recommittal St diary, Curates Bill. Laid PORCHESTER. argued against the ground that while it violated the Church; it would afford no relief to the the Citrates themselves. The object said, was not to.atigment the income most wanted it ; hot io the value , r atiet, while the gra• number of those holy orders were ltft preci;ely as before. these he would be Verfecdy willing, it (lone ; but the causes cif the poverty of seere—arst, the poverty of the benefices arid secondly, the great number who holyi orders without the prospect of an) all, except a triflins and precarious curac. served, chit this raisin the Incomes of would have no other effict; than that many more than the present average nttmlaer Into holy orders, and by that means f the Whole would he increased rather than Pie deprecated this sort of meddling wit, of the Church. The Clergy were among cluing class of country Gentlemen, who h proved, and might again be the best asylum of iii betty and independence. Mr. WINDHAM agreed in the sentiments deli vered by the Noble Lord, and maintained that the Right Honourable Gentleman erred in his general view of Church establishments ; he seemed to Lave forgOtted that the Clergy were composed of Arch. bishops, Bishops, Deans, and all the reghlai grads. tions of rank. By this Bill he was afraid the. Hous e would-go the length of considering an incumbent as uselelt. If so, they would tend to abolish all tanks. It seas dangerous too, he contended, to meddle with Chuirch property, with which the Legislature had no right to interfere. The Bill provided for a sort cf liberality, but it was at the expellee of justice. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER denied that the Bill would go the length which the Right Honourable Gentleman seemed to imagine.-- The greet principle of it was to provide, that the Clergy should, beenabled to perform those great and important ditties4hich were cast upon their partitidar calling. - - Doctor LAWRENCE 'expected a number of Cea. tler,nen to support this Bill,.by their votes, the prin ciple of which they had formerly supported by their arguments, but was disappointed in that respect. He then argued against the Bill at great length, and thought it would have, in many cases, a very harsh operation on the Curates of the. Church, who were its object. He objected to. the Bill, because it tended to introduce a new established girder in the Church. The SOLICI'T'OR-GENERAL thought the Bill might be so modified in a Committee as to meet the ideas of Gentlemen on all - sides of the House, and therefore he *as surprised at so much opposition to it. If this Bill was novel in principle it would be objet. tionable to him. If it trenched upon private.-pro perty, that would be to him an insuperable objectice ; but this had neither objectidn, but was alfill upon the true principle of the Reformation, a measure for supporting properly the clerical order of the Este , blished Church of England, and encouraging the residence of the Clergy in those places where their clerical functions were to be ekercised, a consideration highly interesting to the public. Besides, in early times, the Diocesan had power, in all cases of phut 'icy of livings, to give, to what *vaunt be pleased, s salary to the Curate ' • but as the law stands =preterit e by the 36th of the King, the Curate can have only . 751. a year, whether the living be worth 1001.. 2001: 3001- 5001. 10001. 20001. or even 90001 a year. So again, is far back as Richard 11. the Bishop had power to adjudicate to the Vicar, whose very defini tion was Vice-Rector, a proper aliowance out of the income of the Rector who did not officiate in his office. Mr. WHITBREAD kens anxious tc sty a few words, as he should on that occasion vote against the opinions of those Gentlemen with whom he was in the habit of voting. The Honourable Gentleman here approved cf Mr. Perceval's Bill, but took occa sion to censure his conduct on religious subjects on former occasions, and said that his behaviour at the last election was calculated to throw the nation 50 years back into barbarity and ignorance. }ie, ever, voted - fur the recommitment of the Bill. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER explained, and deprecated all allusions to party feel• in on the I,n:sea; subject. The question was then put on the motion of Lord PORC RESTER—Ayes, 11 ; Noes, 94—Majority 93.—The Bill was con;equently recommitted fo: Fri Ajown 'l'tii•; F.% EING STA IL_ I 4 I I sisr:a the H a l li tt e ctritY• t 6. co, nmittal of 40 lag tilt Bili, di fi g.___ - • le rights of d is Pr w r at 4 o the Bill, 1 1/ xi L"fofwhth6seaofenteweiid": .IFiale,.•_ re. To relieve fp if it could be 46 1 f many of titeln iiros ces themselves / ' - ` 1 lo pressed into ' ''", - :i 1 , my provision at 3"0"-.., tracy. He ob. fa few Curates tat of inducing number t o en* the poverty of 44; hail diminiShed: rich the property i nong that mid: vho had before • ..... LONDON. WEDNESDAY, MAY 11. PRIG! OF STOCKS THIS DAY AT ONE O'CLOCK Consuls, for atoa y. 6R--Mtte So • sr.:glut 64 Redscel Si t —Ete4 J.,ls Si. p • •ss. —lal 11. PRICE t)F Sl LICKS YESTERDAY. pet Cent. Red. tilt I India Eocids, Si. 4s. pte. 9 pet Cent. Coss. 6111-it I b.ip. s pix C. 6tii 4 pet Cent. Ilit{ :xisle 5 per Cent. 95i S per Cent. 99} 100 94} English Tickets, SOL 196. I.olig Ann. 184 i Each,. Balls 'ls. to Is pre: lndis stock lost lea Co.zs fut acc. Getif A. lEIUCA. The conferences between T.U. Secretary CaNzinea and Mr. PINCKNEY have for• the present terminated; and this evening Mr. NOCREZ sets oat on his return to America with the reiult. Much discussion is under stood to Lave takeu place ppon the subject of the right of searching merchant ships : the particulars, of course, cannot for some time he made public ; Lut it is understood in circles connected with the Govatt ment, that the interests of Britain have not been Loin• promised by concessions on this important point. Some more American vessels Lave effected their escape from Holland, but the news they Iniug is not so late as the accounts we yesterday published. On the 7th instant an American vessel arrived in Guernsey, which left Rochsiort on the night of the , 50th ult. in consequetce cf i private, but paritise