Star. — London, England, 1826-05-03 00:00:00

S IPfr . of the House, when they were expecting a matter com paratively /rf so Much greater irnportanetfor their c'on sideration ; but he must trespass on its patience so far as o state a few facts relative to the mal-administration of justice in the British settlement of Parhamattah, in New S bath Wales. He alluded to the case of Henry Lovaine, who bad been ,entenced to receive twenty-five lashes each day, until he confessed where the money 'was w hiCh he had been accused of stealing. This pri soner had been subsequently sent to Fort &lacquarrie, and the Grand Jury had subsequently confessed that thearst part of the punishment had been inflicted to compel the coofession of his crime. The next case was of a nun named Johnson, accused of stealing a pair of trowsers, similarly treated ; and the third was the case of a Dutchman, who had been a deserter, and had ac cused two persons of harbouring him, merely to escape punishment himself, whilst it rendered them liable to the penalties of the law. The latter person confessed subsequently these persons were not the parties who concealed him. There were also two cases in which torture bad been administered to convicted persons to extort coofession, and obtain restitution of the property stolen. In some of these cases proceedings had been instituted against the Magistrates, and to defeat those actions an Act of Indemnity had been issued by the Governor-General, Sir Thomas Brisbane. The effect of this act oft he Governmeut obvi ously went to screen the authorities, and the object of his motion was to obtain mote satisfactory informatiou as to the whole of these ereeeedinp.. He then moved for a copy of the ordnance to stay premediags against the parties in these cases, signed by Sir Thos. Brisbane under date of the 11th October, 1843 ; and also for copies. of the fedistments sued out against the Magistrates in any of these cases for eruelty or excess of jurisdiction. Mr. WILMOT-HORN said he was not at all in disposed to grant all the information on these cases which had as yet reached the Colonial Office. He was happy to find the conduct of the Gallant Officer (Sir Themes addend) alluded to without mit heinuation as to his being involved in the culpability of the temneMisn. The error as to Doctor Douglas's oanduct as a Magisnmee hug arisen out of a series of precedents which he would not meet had siet geteiestied an a false principle. He hoped, as the information mull be girded, *at the House would withhold its opinion Until they were in pos session of that evidence- _ _ After a few words front Mr. Bow and Mr. Wain: Moms, the motion wag agreed to. Mr. HUSHISSON wished to *rise the House that in con sequence of the dose of the Ram big likely to be such occupied with a very imports* %vie stillsessellas that evening, he should postpone the motion relative teakipplig, of which he had given notice for that evening, to Friday neat CORN LAWS. _ Mr. Secretary CANNING moved the House should go into a Committee on the Corn Law.. On the motion by the Right Hen. Gentleman that the speaker. do leave the Chair, Sir THOMAS LETHBRIDGE rose and stated, that inasmuch as it was always a pleasing duty to rise in that Howse to propose that which was popular, in the same degree it was painful to have to interrupt the house in proceeding - to the consideration of the propo sition of the Right Hon. Gentleman, which, as coming from him, must always have so much weight. And be =use confess he felt an additional painful responsibility ea this occasion, as it had been generally considered -that the proposition of the Right Hun. Gentleman was intended to meet the exigencies of the present period, and quiet or alleviate the distress of the manufacturing classes ina particular district, whose sufferings he mutt sow say, he, as much as any man in that House, felt 'for and deplored. He should pursue on this occasion a straight forward course, despite of any gibe with which his observations might be. met in one quarter. or any ' severer denunciation which might escape from the Noble Member for Yorkshire, who had, on a former occasion, expressed himself in a manner on this subject which was no lets undeserved by those to whom his severity had been applied, than it had been painful to those *hi heard it from that Noble Lord in his place. That inculpation was the more singular on the Noble Lord's part, considering the' class in society to which he belongs, though perhaps he might be• considered a landed- proprietor in so large a sense, that it might *aloiost be a, Menet of indifference what might be the Trice of corn. In resisting the motion of the Right Hon. Gent!eman, he meant to induce the House to agree w ith him that it was a fallacy to suppose that any con siderable relief mould accrue film the scheme new pointed out by Governmeat. That proposal, he un derstood, wt nt to let loose the bonded corn now in this .couotry, at a duty of twelve shillings per quarter... 7. This was the first part of the scheme, and to it, per haps, he had no such very strong objection as be had to that which followed, and that because he thought the latter involved the whole principle of the Corn Law:— (flear). It was now but a short fortnight since, on the motion of an Hon. Friend of his, that the House would not consent to go into a Committee to deal with the whole system of the Corn Laws, that the Hon. Member bad been left in a large minority, and the principal argument used by him on that occasion was, that as there existed a possibility,or remoteeprobability of a scar city, the Legislature should thereforego immediately to .work with the Corn Laws,' so as to prevent the likeli hood of its occurrence. Oa that I ccasion it would be recollected, the argument used by his ajesty's Gco 'to was, that it would now be extremely ill-timed to go into a subject of so much importance and vital interest to the public. He would now ask what had •since arisen to alter their views, except indeed that the distresses in the district alluded to had continued longer (for they had even then begun), or that these poor manufacturers bad begun to be riotous? He would believe for a Moment. whit - had been insinuated, namely, that these riota had broken out in consequence of the manner in which the House had treated the motion of his Hon. Friend on the subject of the Chin LXws.— He could not Conceive either that the subscriptions, urged so becomingly by the Right Hon. Secretary, for the Home Department, however extensive might be that proof of our national benevolence, could yet go 'deep enough to redress the evils already felt, or prove any thing beyond a palliation to the evils which all deplored. If such were, as he and others believed, the case, would it not have been far better' that his Majesty's 'Ministers should come to the House and ask for a vote of Money in aid of the poor's rates of the district so distressed, which was a mode that had often been re sorted to as to those parishes adjoining a distressed parish or district. Instead of what was now proposed as a mean of meeting the evil, he must contend that an application for a vote of money would have been much more rational. Some persons had been hardy enough to say that the cause of the present distress was the high price of corn. This was all a fallacy, and he would be glad to know whether any one there would for a moment credit such a thing? Yet that fallacy had been gaining growl and getting proselytes, because it bad boor nur tured by some persons of considerable talent as a means 1 of getting at the landed interest. But the truth waarlhe caw of the distress was to be traced to other circum- li stances. He knew that Ministers now said it was not their intention at present to moot the question of the COgn Laws.--(Mr. Comma saddled assoot).—Had the object of the row:dud keen confined tetbstinbs jet.: otthe corn dedisare, be should, as that had beim' done before, nettles* opposed its being done again.— It had been asserted by the advocates of this project, that there was not above 250 to 200 ) 000 quarters of corn bonded in the warehouses, which would drys be brought into the market at a duty of 12s. per quarter. He thought, taking the different ports, there must how ever be more; yet even this could not operate as a te ller. According to Mr. Jacobs's intelligent statement on the subject of the Corn trade, 600,000 qrs. did not 'form more than a week's consumption. To propose this as a remedy, was to practise a deception. It was something calculated to soothe, rather than act as a grand source of permanent relief; and, he must add, he did not think it a fair or a manly way of meeting the difficulty, after the House had been recently informed that this was not the fit time to touch the subject, from Ministers themselves. In fact it appeared to him to be an attempt to get rid of the Corn Laws by,' side wind. As to the Ministers' second proposition, the country would hardly believe it possible, that within ten days or a fortnight after their: opposition to Mr. Whit more's motion, to propose in fact to annihilate the Coto .Laws. He would not give such power to the Ministers to allow corn to be introduced on 12s. duty. As to the principles of free trade, however they might be sup ported by ingenuity and research, 'they were car rying the Ministers out of their depth. It was not 'agriculture or manufacture alone that complained ; the shipping was also in distress. He had not seen the principles of reciprocity acted upon by other count' ies —they took all they could get but returned nothing. If there were free trade, there most be freedom regarding corn ; but if that were to be done, how were the interest of the debt and the large estaillakments to be paid?—{Hsu, hear). Those things must be paid—but with this freedom they could not be paid. He called on the Nielsen to pause, and not to sanction the Wrap for such was t he inci et. that cheap bre ad would remove the difftaddes. He with moving an amendment, that a Committee be appointed to enquire ioto the causes of the distresses in the manufacturing districts. Mr. BENETT seconded the amendment. The Hon. Member expressed his astonishment at the introduction of such a measure so shortly after the question of the Corn Laws had been decided by so large a majority, to the approbation and satisfaction of the country. The object of the measure would he to derange and alter all the contracts that had been made respecting farms, lands, and corn. Some Gentlemen seemed to imagine the Corn Laws were not the cause of the distress; if this were the case; where was the necessity of repealing them, for the purpose of putting an end to this distress? He was as ready as any man to administer relief to the sufferings of the people; he only doubted as to the mode of affecting the object. He would venture to suggest one as a temporary expedient, which he admit ted, if considered as a precedent, would be bad—that was, to purchase corn, and sell it to the sufferers at a cheaper rate. This suggestion, if acted upon, would agree with the interests of all; it would neither interfere with contracts, nor touch upon the Corn Laws. It would, perhaps, be giving relief through the medium of the poor rates, the legitimate mode in this country, of alleviating distress. He siid, that the distresses of the agriculturists were not as well known as those of the manufacturing, classes, from the facility of combination possessed by the latter. The Hon. Member deplored the conse quences that must follow from the riots of the manufac ahrers, who, after destroying the instruments of their own trade, would also destroy the ricks and corn of the farmer. They would finally . imitate the conduct of the _lrish peasantry in the rebellion, who burnt the Bank notes, for the purpose of ruining the bankers. He op b..sed the motion of the Hon. Member for Btidgenorth, because the dui he proposed was not adequate to the protection of the farmer, and because his Bill contained nothing that appeared to him to be certain. The Right Hon. Gentleman had proposed the duty of twelve shil lings, because it was that laid on by the law at present, but he had forgot that the law required an additional duty of five shillings for the first three months. The statement of Mr. Jacob appeared, to him, to be ape* ; no effort was made to ascertain the stock on hand in the country. It would be expedient, perhaps, to send a person, properly authorised, to the suffering districts, who should ascertain the extent of suffering, and the best node of giving relief. He should not be accused of insensibi lity to the sufferings of the manufacturing classes. He had been for thirty years an acting Magistrate, and he wellknew what they endured, but be also was convinced, that if they were relieved to the extent which they sought, the consequence would be *sir ruin. Mr. Secietary CANNING.—.When I took the liberty of submitting my proposition to the ccnsideration of the House, 1 assure Hon. Members that I did no , think' it would be incumbent upon me to offer any thing in the shape of an apology fur so doing. I did not think that 1 should be charged with anything like disrespect to the House, or to those Honourable Mem bers who choose to hold their own opinions upon the subject. I introduced the motion, because it appealed to me to be the most convenient mode of exciting disc cession, more especially as the proposition to •which 1 called attention, may be divided into two parts, to one of which the Honourable Member for Somerset, who has led the opposition in a manner so strong and so vehement, has anode comparatively but little objection. In this stage is the discussion. I think it necessary to say a few words by way of explanation, for the purpose' of doing away the impression that seems to be made on the mind of the Hon. Baronet, and of disencutnber ing the proposition of that character which he seems to think should justly belong to it. I assure thh Hon. Baronet that he (mold not think more unworthily of his Majesty's Government .than the individuals who compose it would think of themselves, if, acting open the principles which have been ascribed to them, and' with that view which has been attribueed to them, they had brought forwardthis proposition with the intention of aiming, by a side wind, the principles of the Corn Laws. Honourable Members will do me the justice to remember that I have not dated what my opinions mity be upon the subject. And when the time for the general discussion shall arrive, I will approach it with my mind perfectly unbiassed, and with feel ings not kindled by any former debate. My ergo. ments will . then stand upon their own importance; and will be advanced upon, and supported by the peculiar grounds of the question, and the peculiar circumstances of the country at the time when it shall be brought forward. With this general question 1 desire, at present, no interference; and I cannot refrain front expressing my regret, as I do most sincerely (though without presuming to impute blame), that the Hon. Baronet, and the Hon. Measbee who has seconded his _ _ - amendment. though in a wilds!: took should have thought of connecting:this-props"ion with the great question of the .CoraLa • ai I do, that this Resolution will asset thatqaprobation oF, •and -be sae timed by this-and do other House. I hope also to ' be 'able mem the Hon. Monk% shpt k taro ',Netts' are ape* and perfectly distitiet. Ilherness to eon to that the lent cod into the _peen fly, woold to dist ress—e say theyjthe withholding of this corn, and its high price, *ill be the means of prevent ing this distress: bet I deny that these propositions are the same. The causes of distress may be widely different from those which are affirmed by Hon. Members. I could remind the House of many which have beenprietal facie assigned as the sources of difficulty. Many of them have, for instance, been said to ow: their existence to the principle of free trade; but whatever may be the cause, I think it evident, that letting out the corn which is bonded in the neighbourhood of those who are afflicted with want, wilt for so muds at least prove a remedy. If there be a medicine which we know to be a specific for a certain disease, and if we have a patient enfeebled by that very disease, without having that specific to administer, would l it not be prepos. terons to suppose that he is reduced to this sate by the medicine, which, in the absence of the specific, we gave him ? I will not at present follow the Hon. Bart. through that wide range of discussion in which, he has indulged, for the purposeof finding the cause of cilstreu. I will not consider whether it be the consequence of over-trade, er of those fluctuations which are peculiar to trade, and which are and will be essential to this country, as long as it shall c intinue a great commercial nation. It is surely enough fur Parliament to know that the distress does exist, in order to induce it to admit the necessity of inquiring what are the speediest, safest, and most efficacious means of alleviating it. The proposition which I have, for that purpose, to submit to the consideration of the House, is of a two-fold description. There is in this country at this moment a large quantity of corn which was imported under the laws, and which, by the regulations of those laws, cannot be brought into circu lation; yet, in the place where this corn is now hoarded, within almost the view of the granaries, the most grind ing and most pressing distress prevails. Can any ques tion therefore arise as to the propriety and utility of bringing that corn into circulation, in order to afford relief to persons, whose claims upon our sympathy there is not one Member who hears me, nor one person in the country. I am convinced, will attempt to deny.— If a proof be required of the necessity of bringing that corn into circulation, the proof is evident to all who witness the distress. That the distress is prevalent to a most lamentable degree, is undeniable; that there is corn in the country enough to alleviate its pressure can not be denied, and from what has fallen from the Hon. Members who have last addressed the House, it is evi dent that there is no unwillingness on its part to afford to the sufferers relief. I therefore anticipate no diffi culty to the first part of my proposition, and I therefore pass to the second branch of it. By the existing Corn Laws it is regulated„ahat foreign corn shall not be im ported into this country. unless in cases, one of which, as so provided, does not now come before us for our adjudication. Bot a case is now before us of paramount importance—a case which requires that his Majesty's Government do now make application to Parliament for a power, which, if it be regarded in the light of a boon, is of all boons the last to which the Members of his Majesty's Goverment would be disposed to ask of this House, or of the Legislature, to give their concurrence --(Hear, hear).—lt is the granting to the Government a power to admit foreign corn into the country, in order to meet the exigencies of the peoples if the exercise of that power be unnecessary, it will not be required from those who have to guard the welfare of every class of his Majesty's subjects, to give it effect. This is the pro position which on a former occasion, when I was not one of his Majesty's Ministers, was objected to by the Members of his blajesty's Government, on account of theniselves ; for they regarded it, and justly, as involving. them in a responsibility of the most serious importance. Parliament is now about to separate, and as there is no reason to suppose that, during its separation, any great facility will be afforded to ensure its meeting upon any sudden emergency, his Majesty's Government now pro pose to its consideration the propriety of being prepared t meet the exigences which may suddenly occur. I am under no apprehension that such an, emergency as will call fore an unlimited exercise of that power will immediately arise; but every - Member who knows the state of the country, and who is sensible of the pro priety of being provided with means to check any sudden evil, cannot but acknowledge the utility of greeting to the Government this power. There is now, and has been, for a few weeks, a rising market : that fact is undeniable. While applying for that power, it will be allowed to me to state my opinion, that the in troduction of foreign corn will not materially lower the present prices. I feel, however, that I ought not to use the epithets high or low ; for these expressions are but relative—they are relative as well to the returns of corn as to the state of the country. Last year the price of corn was 675. and it is now 60s. yet it seem( manifest, that the present price of 60s. is comparatively higher, in consequence of the existing state of the coun try, than were the nominally lower prices of last year. Without stating my own opinion as to the means of procuring it, it appears to me evident that the object, the desirable object, of all our efforts, ought to be not the highness or the lowness of the prices, but their steadiness. (Heart) Supposing then, that during the separation of Parliament the price of corn should in crease to a great amount ; is it to be assumed that the existing legislative enactments will be sufficient to meet the evils which are contingent to such a rise? Certainly not. Supposing that the price of corn should rise to the extreme verge permitted by the Corn Laws, and to a height greater than pswhaps the framers of those laws tontensplated, - is the cuentry to bear ,the evil resulting therefrom tlll after Aug. 15, fir until after that period the, presint system of the Corn Laws can produce no advan tage? May not there happen a rise in prices as suddenly as this distress? Ai immediate remedy becomes impera tive: there natty be a difference between the expedients requisite; but there . may be but little time for defilseto tion. Whist is therefore to be done? Its. that atomics, and with a view to be prepared to meet those contin gencies. Government now proposes to be armed with " a discretionary, but effectual power to apply thetemedy. There is no tendency in this measure to alter the Corn Laws; if I borrow from the Corn Laws by taking the amount of the duty from them ' I take it because it exists. If &permanent duty be requisite, as some Hon. Members have contended, for the establishment of a fixed system, I state no opinion —I take the duty as it exists. Any vat iztion from the standard already determined, would imply a change in the laws, to which I am not inclined to accede. Why have you not, says an Hon. Gent. " taken fibs. as the price, and 15s. as the duty?" That proposiden may be appropriate in certain cases of a reviving trade and, a fah price, but in cases of a diminished trade and of a lowered pi ice, will it be, ',so? My object is to obtain a discretionary powerli •rs be used when the appivipriate occasion shall arise, A Noble Lord, whom I - do not now see le his place, on a former occasion, expressed his sentiments respecting the union of the agricultural and the 'manufacturing interests; for myself, I will aver, that I can perceive but little in which those interests dilfer—(Chears). I see no discrepancy between them. The Hon. Baronet has expressed his sympathy with the Manufactstring interests, chile be spoke his sentiments- candidly; it would, therefore be unjust to attribote to that Mon. Member any other motives than sincerity of conviction on this isnportrust subject. I shall not, therefore, I trust, be mtsrepresented, nor nay motives misinteipreted4 F4r myself, I think that the Hon. Member for Wilt shire has done himself credit by the free expression of his sentiments; and I am satisfied that every °narks man must see that if once anything like charges Of personal feeling are admitted into the discussion oUri question like the present, so fir from anything being done really to aid those classes which are suffering, they would only have. further .nnhappinens of barred and suspicion towards their superiors, added to the pre , sent misery of their situation. Then, while I give the Hon. Members apposite credit—an d do so fully, even in that which I think the extravagance of their appred hensions—for the absence of anything like interested motive, . I hope that they, oti their pit, will acquit Government of any intention, under the mask of a die , Wu which all parties must alike deplore, to come down to the House with a measure which goes or is intended to go one point beyond the limit which they aLa to it. The present measure, I beUeve, is calculated to do smoke to the whole country ; and mot least mos to those very Gentlemen who are the most woo* haelied to opp«e its for, its distress Amid arise cuonected with the ease and no power be Oise to rd !Moe it, they may, poriMpe e - ilod th e current of slinksn settle, an wrongly against the had which they rely on, that they may be unable to maintain it. I repeat to the House an. assurance, that Ministen.lll asking this discretion frees the Home, asked that which, but for the peculiar exigency of present ciremnstances,thoir greatest comfort would be the failing to obtain. Mr. BANKES thought that the measures of Minis. tars ought to have been taken much earlier; he thought, too, that there could be nothing in their policy which might not be more fully explained than it had been so far. There was a prevailing opinion among the lower daises, that they were suffering from the operation of the Corn Laws ; the Right Hon. Secretary, who de rided that this opinion was well-founded (in words), ad mitted it in spirit; for, when the distress arose, it was by tampering with the Corn Laws that he proposed to relieve it. What would be the first part of the Hon. Secretary's measure—the letting in of the bonded corn —what would it do? Suppose it reduced corn to Ws. a quarter, haw would that help people who wanted work. and who had no money to buy it at any price? The Right Hon. Secretary said that this corn was bonded in the districts in which the distress lay t--that state .ment was erroneous: 1S0,0(0 quarters of it, at kart, were in London. For the first part of the proposition, he saw no advantage that could result from it : and be thought the principle erroneous. It was bad policy to encourage the working classes to look always, in case any distress affected them, for an alteration is the price of corn. At the same time, thinking the measure could have little operation in any way, he would not oppose k; but the second part of the proposition—that for vesting a discretion in Ministers—he certainly should resist. He thought at least that such * measure deserved mare serious tion than to be etatedon use day and mud en the neat. Much uhe was inclined to give credit to the puma Goverment, be would not burial she power oralleani the whole of the unary to any Citivenunent. wittiest *we proof than bad been even of the absolute necessity of the cis,. Mr. ROBERTSON did not concur in the propriety of the mensute proposed, and therefore intended to sug gest some other and. better mode for remedying the miseries of the country. The grand cause of the dis tress which prevailed was to be found in the want of employment, and it should be the care of his Majesty's Ministers to provide against its results. The distress which the country suffered was shared in common with the Continent, where similar misery prevailed in conse quence of the glut of manufactura. The effect of the unlocking thelonded corn would be to produce a very slight alteration, and to change the current of distress to the occupants of land. That diversion of the mischief would be of greater detriment than .that which it was intended to relieve, as it would spoil the market and reduce the prices to the agriculturists, thereby involving them in the general ruin, by a temporary expedient in favour of the mpnufacturers. Such a course would be only making bad worse, as it would render the distress more extensive. Mr. Col. qnhoun had estimated the landed property of the coon ' try at 226 millions, and all the remaining species at net more than 180 millions. That comparison ought to be sufficient to induce the House to regard the landed interest with attention, and to pause before they adopted any measure likely to interfere with them. What be should propose would be, that half a million of money should be devoted by the House to the purchase of bonded corn, free of duty, under the contronl of his Majesty's Government, or perhaps a greater sum; and that the cern so ptuchaped should be given for the leder of the dis tressed districts, and that those who subscribed for such relief should also be a llowed to purchase free of duty. me House wads% thus; at an eipense of 50s. thequarter, obtain corn for the sagerses without affecting the landed interest; for that mode did not present any prospect et interfacing with the autumn demand foe seek* tura produce. The distress oldie eetaatry required an ireinnliste application of the salutary remedy Width be had seggettad. Mr. W..WHITMCIRE was perfectly willing to allow the fullest credit to the Right Hon. Secretary ,for Fa. reign. Affairs, for good intentions in his . propesition.; but he not heard any reason to convince hem of propriety of voting for it. Looking at the disteerixof the manufacturing classes, and at the state of - the country, he could not but consider it as a mostAlas serous proceeding to permit Parliament toss/mem, sad perhaps even to be dissolved, before it had came to a full division on a subject celestially conneeted with the vital interests of the whole nation.—The prawn aids had not ban unforeseen by him. He lad, upon for- - mer occasions, foretold that a time would come, whoa it would be found impossible Us procure a supply of corn; and it did not require much skill in prophecy to predict the disastrous consequences that mast inevitably follow—a rise in prices was one of those consequeWceift He had no hesitation in affirming, that the produce of , this country bore no relation to its consumption. The high price of core did not depend exclesivelynpoti the exclusion of foreign corn. It the country ps ad's sufficiency for its own cossumpdoos th e := 44 "l article could no: be influenced by the ' of fo• reign corn. The quantity of foreign corn Wakes,' in creasing every ten years during the last sky Yews** withstanding ; while the ordinary eonsumptiob bad much increased the ordinary , /modem He mistimed that the stocks on hand had, during the peflolttb . tifilleh he alluded, been much isferiat was, however, of opinion alit the distresses under which