Star. — London, England, 1830-03-20 00:00:00

.1 .'.at could be called a spoliation by which no one had benefitted, sr :hat which had altered the standard into one which had ver been the standard of this country for twenty-three years. He could not agree with the honourable member for Liverpool, whom he was sorry not to see in his place, that this alteration could be, in any respect. beneficial to the poor. In that, as in every other case the weakest must go to the wall. It pressed heavily upon two classes of persons—the debtor and the labourer. In any defalcation of property the rich would endeavour to retrench, but the retrenchment was made at the cost of other men. (Hear, hear.) They threw off their dependents, who, being thus thrown out of employ, were thrown upon the labour of the country, and thus added to the distress of the labouring poor. It appeared to him that if the country could bear the pressure under which it suffered at present, that pressure was not likely to go any further. The question was, whether the country could bear it ; and it would be arrogant in him to hazard a conjecture. Of all kinds of circulation he considered that to be the moat dangerous which consisted of small paper payable on demand. But, though he agreed with the hon. member for Essex as to the causes of the distress, he did not agree as to the remedies. There were three results which he looked upon as inseparable in the present state of ' things—these were low prices, very low rents, and very low rent for money. Mr. L. FOSTER observed that it struck him as singular, that every gentleman who had spoken hitherto in this debate, had attri buted the distress, now so prevalent in the country, to one cause only .....the currency--(cries of " no, no.") He certainly understood the majority of the gentlemen to use that argument —(cries of " no, no") However, if he was mistaken as to the whole, he could not be de. ceived as to the tendency of the argument, which certainly went to contend that the currency was the sole cause of the present distress of the country. If such was the argument he must say it was most falla cious. There was no worse nostrum in the hands of political quacks, titan that the distress of the country could be relieved by addition to the currency. For what was the currency but an addition to the capital of the country? And was it complained that there was a scarcity of capital? on the contrary, the complaint was, that it was too abundant. An increase of the currency would, there. fore, but add to that which was already too abundant. The fact was, that trade wanted not an increase of currency, but of customers ; either find out new markets abroad, or open that best of all markets the markets of Great Britain, which can alone lighten the burdens of the country, and you then bestow a benefit upon trade. This Government had done much by reducing the taxes, and the country ought to be grateful to then, for it. Much had been said of the distress of the coun try With respect to the condition of the people in England and Scotland he would not presume to give an opinion, being but little acquainted with those countries. One remark, however, he might make, that it seemed to be unfair to take extreme instances of dis tress as the average of the condition of the whole country. He might say the same of Ireland. Undoubtedly, in Dublin, Bandon, and some other places, there was distress prevailing to a considers- Me extent; but what he complained of was, that these places were taken as the average of the whole. But in these places, the die tress was referable to known and local causes. His impression, from all the information which he had received, and his own observation, was—that there never was so much capital in the country, never was trade better, and never was distress less general in Ireland than at this moment. This he could prove in various ways. It was admitted upon all hands that the manner in which rents were paid was a fair criterion of the condition of a country. lie (Mr. Foster) understood, and from what he considered very good authority, the receivers under the Court of Chancery in Ire land, that the rents were collected with as much facility now throughout the country as at any former time. Exceptions there certainly were to this, but they were explainable on known ma soas. It was not perhaps generally known to English gentlemen, to what an extent some estates were mismanaged in Ireland ; how upon others there was an excessive population ; and upon others for local and positive causes; the returns were not such as they were capable of being made; with the exception of such estates, he asserted that the condition of Ireland was never better than it was at tnis moment. And when he called the attention of the house to the circumstances under which Irish produce was brought into the mar ket, this was not to be wondered at. It was astonishing to what an extent Irish agricultural produce, castle, bacon, and even eggs, found its way into this country, even as far as the remotest parts of , Yorkshire. He had not the actual returns by him, but he believed he did not overstate the case when he estimated the whole of the amount of Irish commodity, brought into this country, and for which the Irish tenants received cash to pay their rents with, at three-fourths of the value of the whole rental of the agricultural property of Ireland. This he stated in the rough, though he believed it would not be found very incorrect ; but gentlemen who were curious on the subject might obtain informa tion, almost accurate, by referring to the steam-boat offices and other establishments connected with the intercourse between the two counties. He had mentioned Dublin and Bandon as exceptions to the general state of Ireland, and he would now say a word upon those exceptions. In Dublin, the number of ab solute mendicants might be about two thousand, but there were besides, about 7000 operative manufacturers who were out of work, and therefore, incumbents to some extent upon the charity of the public. This number of both these classes, had been nearly the sane for many years, and the way in which they were provided for WAY the same as before.. The absolute mendicants were steady in their distress and in their claims for relief. With respect to the distressed nianufacturere, they were the objects of transitions of the most frequent as well as various kinds, alternately the victims of temporary depression, or nhort.lived prosperity. Odd as it would seem, it was no less a fact that the most opposite causes Lad worked equally to distress them. Before the " free intercourse" mea ty,• between this country and Ireland, the Irish manufacturer wet oppressed by the restrictions which were imposed upon his market, being obliged, whatever the return, to confine himself to the Irish market ; but since that measure, although he had been I into the English market, yet it was with the ruinous condition of having to compete with the English manufacturer here and at lame, who opposes Min with capital, skill, and resources, which give hint a decided advantage over the Irishman. So much, then for the distresses of Dublin. and indeed for the manufacturers throughout Ireland generally. With respect to Bandon, that was peculiarly situated. The distress there was attributable to the partial failure of an attempt made to establish the cotton menu laCtUte upon a small scale, and which, by being upon a small sale, was the more likely to fail, for a small capital can bear re ve:s, s much worst than large, as was well known. In Belfast, however, where the capital invested was larger, the cotton trade was beginning to take deeper root, and for sixty miles round the hand heron, which were of the same size as those of Lancashire, were at out earnin g 4s. a week. He thought that gan additional ulus ro trade w ou ld b e a great relief. and this g ministers had .coar by reducing the taxes. For all these reasons be thought tit it further inquiry was not desirable, for the causes of the distress had been already proved. Ile protested against it, therefore ; because it was unnecessary ; secondly, because it was likely to mislead the public; thirdly, because he was sure that in an in auuy extreme cases would be taken as the average state of the sanitary, and we should at length persuade ourselves, and other euuntries, that we were reduced to a state of desperation, which would more likely exasperate than alleviate the distress. But, lastly, he objected to the inquiry because it did not mean investiga tion, but meant two things —namely, papas currency and a change of Administration. (Hear and laughter.) Mr. HOLSWORTII next addrested the house. He was under stood to say that he did not see what benefit tout(' be derived from a committee of inquiry ; for, i n hi s opinion, ii:stead of tendin g to teheve this digress, it would only deceive the public, and do more ham than gond. Nu doubt the hon. gentleman who had brought t. re:ad the question had the good of the country at heart, and he gate hint credit ter the course which he had punned ; but, at the same time, he vus afr.ild that it was riot in the power of the house to afford that taef which the public expected. The causes of the distress were various and complicated. They heard of great distress in par elculat distrets ; in other places the distress might be 'said to be com paratively small. There was, however, no great difficulty in ac counting for this, b.:cause if the house would look to the different parts Ul mime country. and take a comprehensive view of the genera! sytem oltrade, manufactures, and agriculture, they would find that S constant chan ge was going on, and th a t manutactwes were trans i /nal suceeseively from one county to another. For instance, the woollen tra d e at one time was carried on to a considerable extent in Hampshire, Sussex, Norfolk, and other southern counties, while a' the present time that trade was confined to Yorkshire and one or trt: western counties. The s ilk t r a d e a l so h a d undergone a similar et ;"hge• It had removed from Spitalfichls to Manchester, and other places in th e country, and it was natural t o su pp ose that the Inha. hi is of t h ose places from which the trade had been transferred must be :n wear distress. In his 'pinion, however, the distress did not !tres s so heavily on wha t might be called the poorer ag cla r l eu `n" -- 2!.. l, Pses . seel most heavily on the sma ll . shopkeeper, ‘ the Ur , lahourer, and those connected with agriculture, but h e wa, ••• aid the reined, was beyond the reach of the legis lature. «'.n, Ur commercial confidence, no doubt, increased toe evil. I n suite districts, he admitted, there was an ap ,P.iernce ut presperi t y, but t his was but too oft e n deceitful, moss as persons who were engaged in trade—in the iron trade, tor it ..tice.-- were obliged to keep their furnaces at work, and often tuut any p ro fi t, in order not only to prevent their machinery to !rout going to decay, but also to prevent others from erecting storks 94mithiun to them. Nothing, ho wever , h e was convinced. .1 at change the state sit the manufacturers but their own good The manufacturer's, however, were not in such difficulty as the agriculturists, and this was easily accounted for. The ma 4afactarer meld go to what market he Plea!" use had emnpara %rly few risks ; while the agrieult ut i st was cui;fined to the home 6" tit/1 oth the eat Ny sot bee ant pu wa , tht dig Ohl tall set• 1 11 Ill• Iltl lilt of 110 gi , tit th pt Pt 1. a. it th it. fit to I 4 uu WI 111 lot an y. It. 4:1 hi til 11, 1)1 4:t Pi .3 a Ic a tI el d st in :n W. as 41: ll market, and at the same time was subject to the mercy of the sea sons, the consequence of which was often moat severely felt by the aristocracy and the landed proprietors in general. The issue of one pound notes, bad as it was, in his opinion, was the only mode of re lieving the fanner. Even that, he was afraid, would not be suffi. cient, and he would be a great statesman indeed who could devise any ;ffectual remedy, and place the agricultural interest in the same • footing with the commercial. Mr. Alderman WAITHMAN agreed that Ministers had selected proper taxes for remission ; and he congratulated them on having done more than any former Government; roe did he think—while they were determined not to reduce the establishments—that they could have taken off more taxes. He thought that every exertion should be made to relieve the country, as every class in the coin. munity, shopkeepers and tradesmen, were equally affected with the agricultural and manufacturing classes. He was satisfied, from the inspection of various documents, and from the observations he had personally made that the depreciation on commodities in consequence of the change of the currency, was forty per cent. He was not wedded to any particular remedy, nor did he think that the way of the currency was the only road to relief; but still he thought the question was an open one, and he had no idea that be. cause a right honourable gentleman had brought in a bill on the subject, it was for ever to be closed to all inquiry. He was not frightened at the name of currency, nor could he see what magic was in the name. He thought that property should be taxed, and that those who drew a revenue from the country should be obliged to contribute to the exigencies of the state. He believed that there was a want of circulation in the country. There was capital in houses, and all that was wanted was a medium of interchange.—.[Some interruption having prevailed in the house, the worthy alderman said, he was determined not to be put down by the clamour and interruption in the discharge of his duty to his constituents. lie would say to the Speaker, as a member of the house once said, " I hope we are all here on equal terms." He (Mr. IV.) who had constituents, felt himself, at least, on equal terms with these hon. members who had not. He was determined to do his duty, and he thought he was much entitled to ask the at tention of the house, out of respect to those whose opinions he represented, as well as the hon. member who spoke for two hours last night—(cheers).] The right hon. member for Liverpool contra dicted all the statements which he (Mr. W.) had made on a former occasion, but he was ready to meet that right hon. gentleman— that Goliah, that oracle who told the house how much he had la boured for the good of the country—before a jury of intelligent men ; and he was satisfied their verdict would be in his favour.-- (hear, hear). The lion. alderman then went on to contend that the right honourable member for Liverpool had been guilty of a fallacy in mentioning the years from 1815 to 1820 as a test fur ex. ports ; whereas, in 1815 and 1819 there had been a deficiency to the amount of 10,000,0001. Great stress bad been laid upon the in crease of impotts, but they had increased for the last 30 years only In proportion to the population. The official value of exports was not a true criterion, as the real value was far less than ordinary. lie had often repeated this, but he did not know how he appeared to the public, as he read but one paper, and in that he was reported but very shortly —( hear .) Free tr ade was nonsense—now called reciprocity—a new name introduced by Lord Shelburne, after wards Marquis of Lansdowne, and rather of the description that seemed to be praised by the honourable member for Bram ber. The question had been settled by Adam Smith who had written best on the subject, and he had been echoed by Pitt and others that what was looked for in such cases, was an equi. velem. The country had nothing but its labour, and the Right Ho nourable Member for Liverpool seemed to say the less that was I got for it the better. The system appeared to him like that phi. losopher, the father of Tristram Shandy, who found out that the world had been mistaken la 400 years, and that children had come into the world the wrong end foremost. If, however, the experiment of Mr. Shandy were tried, it would be found not more ridiculous and untenable than that of the free trade gentlemen. The Hon. Gentleman then touched upon silk, shawls, and shipping, and dwelt at some length upon the duty upon servant girls gowns not being more than that upon their mistresses. Ile then went on to read an extract from a speech of the Right ilon. Member for Liverpool in 1814, in support of his position, which from the cough. ling and interruption, could not be heard in the gallery. He would not be interrupted, for he did his duty to the public--and while many who were disinclined to hear, applied their hours to cards and wine, he devoted himself to public business. The labour of the country was taxed 75 per cent, and when the principles now acted on were carried into effect, it would be just as if 2,000 French pri. ;tenets were brought over and set to work here. Mr. FYLEit said that the silk trade in Coventry laboured under great distress, anti it would be an aggravation of the sufferings of the people, if, at all events, no enquiry were entered into as to the causes which produced it. The ribbon trade was carried on at a very great loss, although it is said that the import of raw silk had con siderably increased. This was a fact against an assertion made with great confidence by the right hon. member for Liv erp ool (Mr. Huskiason). The wages of labour had also decreased, and he asked if such a subject did not call for Inquiry ? Mr. BRAMSTON said he had only a few remarks to make. He was convinced of the reality of distress, though It was not universal. He entered that house as an advocate for inquiry; but the only two tangible objects for inquiry, namely, the currency and taxation, bad been already disposed of. In 1819 the currency was fixed, and they would only encounter greater evils if they now attempted to make any alteration. (Hear.) The recurrence to a paper currency might benefit the agricultural classes, but he could not shut his eyes to the fact, that it would be injurious to the country. He felt satisfied that the remission of taxes would be carried as far as prudenc e would justify, and with that lie felt satisfied. If any furthe r remission rat taxes could take place, he would support it; but h e could not vote for the appointment of a committee. (Hear, hear.) 3tr. Lc it.:KHART said he was convinced that distress prevailed in this kingdom, and inquiry should be entered into, to ascertain its causes tine was a new ease of social distress; our trade increased; our revenue did not fall off; and was not this a phenomenon de serving of the most serious investigation ? He attached no blame to his majesty's ministers upon this subject; be believed the whole house to he ignorant of the real situalon of the country, and hence the necessity fur inquiry. This house had a constitutional duty to perform, and he hoped they would not neglect it. Mr. W. HORTON said he would resist this motion, upon the ground that its object was to make an alteration in the currency. (Cries of " No, no.") Mr. ATTWOOD said the question for the house to decide now was—was there that degree of distress and embarrassment In the country which called for inquiry ? He would take the state of the country as given in its most favourable terms, and sure he was that even in such a state Inquiry would be absolutely necessary. He believed the condition of the country to be most calamitous, and as such deserving the most serious inquiry. Every interest in the State was engaged in this inquiry the corn laws—the currency—free trade—anti almost every other subject connected with our existenceas a free people. The Act of 1819 fixed the price of wheat, and with that the rent of land must fall; and that was a measure of confiscation._ The hon gentleman adverted again:to the change of the currency, and imputed distress to that event. The petitions of the people describing the existence of distress were entitled to more credit than the letters read by the right hon. gentleman. The reports made by the right hon. gentleman betrayed themselves, but the pe titions of the people spoke truth. The people, dissatisfied with the conduct of parliament, called loudly for reform. The character of the house had been changed, and the people turned from the house as the house had turned from them. He however denied that the house in its collective capacity was unable to protect the great interests of the country. He could account for the unwillingness of the right hon. member for Liverpool to go into inquiry. That right hon. gen tleman told them he had been acquainted with the objects of go vernment during the last 40 years, but he did not say that his own measures had been influential. At a period like the present, the house could not act upon the dicta of ministers. The right ho nourable gentleman bad told them of the horrors of the late war, but he forgot to tell them the strength of the country had been equal to the difficulty. During the 20 years of that war, the re sources of the country were able to meet the shock. They did not give way until peace, when the measures of public men occasioned a failure of those resources. The distress of the present day must have been brought on by former dangerous and imprudent measures. What was it that blasted the industry' of the people—that cheated them of the profits of their labour, and left them a prey to famine ? It must have been the unfortunate culpable legislation of that House. It was the duty of the House of Commons to 11nd out what those causes were; and to point out fairly how they were beyond the coe. trot of the Legislature. They told the people that the ruin of Iffird was occasioned by the bad harvest. In 1828 they told them the bar. vest was over-abundant. Machinery had been described to be the cause of that distress. The steam-engine was blamed, but if that was the case, they could not frame a law to restrain the use of steam. it was, however, absurd to suppose that machinery had produced dis tress. One of the choicest gills which science bestowed *amen be came destructive in their councils; but it had not reduced society to the present state of distress. Could they tell the people that the bankers had ruined the country by not leading their money to when but a few years ago those very bankers were charged with ruining the country by lending too much money ? The bankers were now to be joint-stuck companies ; and It could not be forgotten that not many years since joint-stock companies were sai.i to be the cause of ruin to all classes. In this hour of distress he might call the attention of the Howie to the real state of things. During the evils of war and the quietude of peace ;that House had been occupied in changing laws in abusing the monetary system, witicii affected all relations in life. They had given •it .is pct. petual mutation, and when th e y h a d b ut t h e fi n i s hin g touc h to their system, they fotti4 the country involved in misery and distress un known before it fell under the curse of baneful measure*. It was sad. in extentiatinn of these calamities, that Other countries were equally exposed to distress. That was not the fact. No country in the woad was setraing under distress sad privation like this country. He could not suppose that distress in England did not affect other countries. France, America, and other parts of the world tru.4 be affected by the state of our embarrassed commerce, but no nation was so miserable as England. The hon. member adverted to the paper circulation, and contended that it was the standard in which their great engagements and contracts had been founded. That s'ai:dard could not be taken away without producing in all transactions hor. rible confusion, and the present state of the country, which on former discussions upon the currency was predicted with fatal Rem racy. The difficulties of the country had arisen from legislative measures, and he for one would never admit that those difficulties' were beyond parliamentary controul. In entering upon this subject the hon. member had been anxious to prove that the distress under , which all classes laboured was susceptible of remedial measures, and without a breach of faith to the public creditor, the house of commons might enter upon inquiry. -- - - _ . . Mr. PEEL said, the question before the house, if agreed to, would open inquiry and discussion on every s u bj ect hat could have the remotest bearing on the public interests. He would merelioad vert to what had fallen from the hon. baronet, the member for wall, to say that he never mentioned the honourable baronet, or the party to which he was allied, with intentional disrespect. He did not mean to defend the calumnious paragraphs of newspapers ; but if the honourable baronet had been their object, the time would come when he would be convinced that such weapons were as dan. gerous in their recoil as in their attack. (Hear, hear.) With respect to the subject before the House, he felt that distress existed in the country to call forth all their sympathy and all their exertions for its alleviation, by every means compatible with the safety and honour of the country.—(Bear, hear.) His Right Honourable Friend the Member for Liverpool had considered the unusually large sums drawn out of the savings banks in the course of the last year, as proof of the distress of the country. He could explain that fact in a satisfactory manner ; one which both his Right Honourable Friend and the House would be glad to hear. Pre vious to the month of November, 1828, the interest on de. posits, In savings banks, was threepence per diem ; from that period it was reduced by law to two-pence farthing ; and it was prohibited to any individual to deposit more than 301. in one year, and when the deposits and interest amounted to 2001. all interest ceased. This of course led to the withdrawal of many sums above 2001. and it appeared that in 1828, the deposits above 2001. amounted to 2,273, while in the year 1829 they amounted to no more than 1804. But he was happy to have to state the smaller depo sits, including all under 201. had increased nearly 4,0001 in the year 1829. In the year 1828 the deports under 201. were 68,2041. In the year 1829, the deposits under 201. were 70,1591. There had been an in crease in Liverpool, Sheffield, Leeds, Southampton, Norwich, Exe ter, Truro, Warwick, in Whitechapel, and Panton.street, Hay market. (Hear, hear) He knew the sympathy of the House with the poor so well that they would not think him too minute. (Hear, hear, hear.) No one could feel more steeply the necessity of enlarging by every means the enjoyments of the poor, which was a security for their good conduct, and the best security of all property. Of this feeling, the measures proposed by Government had given proof.—(Hear. hear.) His Right Hon. Friend had recommended the transfer of taxation from articles consumed by the poorer classes ; but he did not name the substitute ; he believed, however, he might say it was a property tax.—( Hear.) Mr. HUSKISSON here said he meant a property tax on certain classes. Mr. PEEL said the subject had been fully considered by govern- 1 meat, and it was thought better to have recourse to the reduction of taxation proposed by his right honourable friend. It would, how. ever, be inexpedient in him, as a minister of the crown, to offer any opinion on the measures that might be deemed expedient to be taken for the benefit of the country hereafter. (Hear, hear, hear.) He was free to confess his opinion decidedly was, that most of those honourable gentlemen who intended to vote for a committee on the present question, intended to direct their attention more to a re vision of the currency and free trade question than to any other ; the whole tenor of the hon. gentleman's speech was to that effect. (Hear.) The currency question had been discussed and re-discussed since the last bill in 1819 was brought in; nothing in his (Mr. Peel's) opinion would be more imprudent than after eleven years' operation of that bill a change should now be attempted ; why does not the hon. gentleman (Mr. Attwood) in a proper way provoke dig. cussion on that important question by producing his bill ; that would be a much more satisfactory way of going to work than by vave allusions of a dissatisfied nature ; but much as the bill of 1819 had been blamed, he could not think that his Alajesty's ministers were in error in bringing that forward ; he knew he would be charged with being unfeeling by stating so much ; however unpopular the doctrine might be, still he believed in it. His majesty's ministers at that period adopted the only alternative that could be come to without causing a breach of public faith. The measure of 1819 was blamed for every evil that existed ; he would ask the house was there no panic previously to that year. In 1810, when the country was poasessedan inconvertible paper currency, a commission was appointed to inquire into the then distress of the country : that e.ommisaon did report that distress existed. (Hear, hear.) The right honourable gentleman then went into a defence of the Ricardo system of currency at some length, contending that the country being in a state of peace, immediately after an expensive war, in 1819, the Bill of that year ought to have the benefit of all advantages which it would have had during the war, when an impulse was given to business oil every description; during the first period of 14 years of that war, the country exceeded its income in no less a sum than 189 millions, sterling, and the following 14 years 238 millions, judging merely on an individual question, where such expenditure took place be yond income, a revulsion of no ordinary kind was inevitable; the, authors of the bill of 1819 were therefore not to be loaded with all the ills of the present period ; these ills—many of them at least— were beyond legislative controul.—(Hear.) He believed that much, of the present distress might be attributed to steam and machinery, but the advantages of these were beginning to be felt, and they would ultimately tend to great advantage—(hear;) but even as regarded this distress, there was a division of opinion. An hon. member said that it w::s in Manchester the subject of much controversy : the town being divided in two parties, one arguing that there was no distress, and the other contending as strenuously that die distress was great. (A laugh.) He (Mr. Peel) there fore would not take Manchester as a criterion of distress ; nor Liverpool either, because honourable gentlemen better able to speak of the state of that town were in the house; but he would select a district where the honourable gentleman will be able to bring forward contradictions to any of the statements he (Mr. Peel) should make, in proof that the distress was not on the increase in that quarter (Birmingham) at any rate. (hear, hear.) —And before he entered into any statement, he was willing to assure the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Attwood) that he (51r. Peel) was willing to submit his Bill of 1819 to any test the Hon. Gentleman might think fit to br'ng forward.—(Hear )..—ln 1819, the date of the Currency Bill, there were in Birmingham 18,000 pre. mins, including warehouses ; in 1828, there were 22,000 inhabited hhuses ; therefore as far as an increase of building went, the currency bill had not operated in a disadvantageous manner. Then, as to the value of property, the difference there vas as great ; he would allude to one particular instance : three acres of land which were pur chased in 1827 for 6,00!. per acre, had since been sold for 2,4281- per acre.—(Hear.)—Ground-rents, too, of forty years' purchase. were readily bought at lOW. A house, sold in 1828,at 3,b001. and lately re-sold at 4,200!. The various tradesmen in the town had increased in the same ratio; in 1820, there were 198 =haters ; in 1829, there were 241 ; in 1820, there were 1,150 sellers of tobacco, and in 1829, there were 1,568. If further proof were wanting, it might be quoted, that . in 1819, the year, be it remembered, of the Currency 11111, there were, in the san:e town of Birmingham, of four-wheel carriages, 38 ; in 1822. there .were forty-four; in 1827, there were 136; in 1828, there were 157 (a laugh); and, to show the House how the middling classes were off at these periods, he (Mr. Peel) should quote the state of the two. wheeled carriages (great laughter); in 1819, there were 301; in 1822 there were 321 ; in 1825, there were 388 ; and in HMI, there were 471 ; therefore, he would again remind the house that the bill of 1819 had certainly not prevented an increase in these things; but bow have horses increased ? Why, in 1819, the number was 923, and in 1828, notwithstanding the duty, they amounted to 977 ! The toll duties had also increased in the same ratio ; so also had the canals ; indeed, the income of the tolls taken on the various canals in that neighbourhood had increased to sixty.hve per cent.— (Hear, hear.) He should, therefore, take leave of the currency bill, imagining that he had convinced the house that its effects had not been very mischievous. With respect to the real question before the house, and which, after all was said had been very little spoken to.—(hear.) He had asked the hon. member what was the plan that he intended to bring forward, Oh ! says the hen. gentleman, I am too old a soldier to inform you what it is I intend to do,— (a laugh,) and after a fortnight's delay, he comes forward and moves for a select committee of the house ; he (Mr. Peel) did think that a committee of the whole house was much better than a select one. Did the hon. member think a committee of twenty-one gentlemen could, during the present session, enter into the whole history of the currency, the corn laws, and many other topics which had relation to the present distress, and report thereon ? No honourable member could suppose that any thing sa tisfactory could come from such an operation ; in the midst of re turning prosperity, he (Mr. Peel) was unwilling to gn into details any further ; but he had received letters that morning, which con vinced him, and would convince any honourable member, that the country had passed the worst. (Hear, hear.) lie confessed that he dreaded the remedy to be proposed worse than the (Ukase. He should vote against the motion of the hon. member; it would do the country more good to rouse the inqt.iry than to raise false hopes by granting it. (Hear. Sir CHARLES WETHERELL rose Amidst loud tries of Queation," and at length obtained a hearing. Fur some time there was so much noise in the House that we could not hear what fell from the Honourable Gentleman. When we could understand what he was 'eying, he expressed an opinion that I the Right nowt:obi, Secretary had dedieat•ll five minutes nil tlic practical question before the House, and had templed all the rest of his speech in defending his own Bill. The tral tion, whether there was distress in the couleu r not, waa a proper subject for deliberatien before a ittec, a-d there was so much difference of epistles ti at it ought to be investigated. The Ministers denied tiat there was a ny ai s . tress [No, no! front Mr. Peril it had been so arced then by the Honeurable Member from &amber. He stated that there was no distress in Coventry but his hon. friend, who was in the habit of slaking hands with the rilibon-weavers every day, was there, and knew nothing of the prosperity spoken of by the hon. member. The hon. member had then referred to Ueda ; but theie was a member on the spot—he hardly knew how to designate lii,r, the member for Newark—he might call him the able -the lightened —the accomplished—able. as a writer- -enlightened, its a reasoner—striking in his eloquence, and accomplished in leastrin t r,, both ancient and modern (continued langlater)—the Worthy, If he might so call him, member for Newark (laughter) was there to correct the statements of the llocononrable Member fur Bramber, and show that at feeds, as in other towns. there was gretxt distress. Ile should like to hare the condition of the country ex plained by the Budget of ilia Right Honourable Gentleman which had not been opened ; and wishing to have this informs. don, thinking that the li•ruse ought to go into a Select Cot, . mittee. and knowing that on former occasions, when disc us was complained of. it hail been customary to grant such a Cut - mittee. he should vote for the Amendment of his H0n0ura.. , ... Friend. His Hon. Friend had played the old soldier with hit, , and left him, and all the other Gentlemen on that side, wheal 1 e believed he might call Ultra Tories, as much in the dark as the right hon. secretary. It was a fallacy to suppose that if they went into a committee they MUM necessarily discuss the currency ques tion. There was no necessity fur them to do any such thing ; and it might be a direction to the committee that this question—to meddle with which ite was in conscience much opposed—should not be touched on by the committee, which night be directed en inquire into the distress alone. In former cases select committee: had been granted, and he considered it the duty of ministers to grant such &committee row, though they might limit the inquiry into the distress. lie rejected and re pitdiated all ir.quiries into the cur rency. The hon. and learned gentleman concluded a speech *litel: was heard with manifest marks of impatience, by declaring that he meant to vote for the select committee, when the hon. and learned member sat down. Mr. O'CONNELL rose amidst loud and long-continued cries of "Question !" and other minks of impatience. Having at length obtained a hearing, he said that he could not do his duty to his Lon. stituents, without proposing that the debate might at that late hour be adjourned.--[Loud cries of " No. no!" and " Oo on !"] Mr. O'CONNELL'S motion having, however, been seconded. tl: e SPEAKER put the question. Mr. Secretary PEEL rose, and said that he thought there had been a fair opportunity for the house to discuss the question, and enter into it much at large. (cheers.) He could not consent to postpone the discussion further--tu extend it to a fourth night. 11,. had postponed all other business that this might come on early, aid were he to consent to a further adjournment, it would cause tb: public business to be neglected. He should therefore find it 1.'4 duty to take the sense of the house,which seemed to think that cm. discussion had been carried far enough on the motion—(cheers.) Mr. C. DAVENPORT said there were Nati dozen friends mar him who yet desired to address the house. and he should tuppmt the motion for an adjournment. Sir E. SNATCH BULL said that he and malty other mem tn.• 1.4 were anxious to say a few words on this most important subject. After a conversation between Mr. HUSE I RSO N, Ml*. DAVENPORT, Mr. O'Coxszu., and several other members, the house divided un the question that the debate be adjourned till Monday— Ayes. Noes Majority ..-33'2 During the exclusion of strangers we understood that the huus again divided on the question, that the house do now adjourn— Ayes l2 Noes. Majority •• ..... ..• • •—••••• 317 A 3ltansta then proposed that the debate be adjourned till that day six months • but Mr. Peel and others being averse to the dis posal of the que stion in that manner, after such protracted (Hull,- sion, it was finally agreed, at the end of a conversation of half a:: hour, that the debate on the motion be adjourned till Tuesday nett. The Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the House ad. journed at Three &Clock till Monday. PRICES OF TEA. A statement showing the average sale price, par pound, of all Teas sold by the East India Company, in each year during the present Charter— P. d. 1814-16 1815.16 1816.17 1817-18 1818.19 . 1819-20 1820-21 1821.22 , .... 2 10,19 1822-23 1823.24 1824.26 111116416 11111147 1117.28 ... 11128-29. THO. O. LLOYD, Acct. General. East India - House, Jun. 6. AMERICAN TEA TRADE. Copy of a Letter from J. Backhouse, Esq. to the Secretary of the Board of Control, dated at the Foreign Office, Feb. 18, 18119 ; with one enclosure. Sti—With reference to the request made by Lord Ellenborouet. to be furnished with a statement of the quantity of tea imported into Holland by the Americans, in each year since 1813, 1 am di/L.IAM by the Earl of Aberdeen to send to you, for his Lordship's informa. tion, the duplicate of the report upon this subject, which has been received from his Majesty's Consul at Rotterdam. The report from Washington will be forwarded as soon as it is received. (Signed) J BACK FIOUSE The Secretary to the Board of Control. Copy of a letter from Alexander Ferrier, Esq. his Majesty's Consul at Rotterdam, to John Bidwell, Esq. dated 7th Oct. 1828; Stn,--In obedience to the desire of tLe Earl of Aberdeen, eO3l. molested by your letter of the 2d inst. I have now the honour it. acquaint you, for the information of his lordship, that the imports. tion of Tea into this kingdom, since the year 1818, has been es follows : By Minna of the Uni•'d Btatea. In 1818 .. 63,154 Qr Cheqe. 1819 ... 52,981 1820 ... 59.343 1821 ... 10,934 1822 ... 19,037 1823 .. 26,192 1824 ... 6,912 1825 ... 30.860 1826 ... 8,004 1827 ... 4.4:16 By Netherlan& Vew.4,10. o► for Dutch Account. 37.881 Qr. Chest+. 6 948 14,029 6,279 8.987 none 6,811 15,364 37.764 231510 271,172 Qr. Chests. 14.4146 Qr. edam.... The whole import in these W years having been 419.318 quarter chests ; and the consumption is estimated at ahcitt 40,000 quartet chests per annum. In 1827 the Netherlands Trading Company began to import, and are now the only Dutch importers, having four vessels employed in that trade. No information of the fimegoing nature can be obtained in this country from official sources, and, as yet, my endeavuora to procure satisfactory particular* of the imports from 181:1 to 1817, have proved ineffectual ; but I shall continue my inquirite, and, if sue t:mini, shall have the honour of again addresteng you upon this subject. (Signed) ALLIANDER FERKIER. John Bilwell, Esq. Sups...Tees:dent of the Consular &ivies, Foreign Office. P.S. Up to this date there have been imported is the earrent year 28,404 quarter chesti by Netherland vessels; mind 18,108 by citizens of the United States. (Signed) ALEXANDER FERRIER. We have reason to believe that the mama, to n hie* we some days ago alluded, of the retirement of MANN Kea SUTTON front the Chair of Alm 'lmre of Commons, is not well founded. There was cotton* , u negotiation on tie part of the Lowe rua interest, D ior the elevation of , Sir JOHN Bac* ary to the Speak( -- ship; but it is yet premature, Mr. Sot ton not baying fill e d his preesst swim stir the *remained term, on the completion of which the occupant is deemed to have ac quired& title to the ample pension of 4,()001 per annum, for two !iv's, usually conferred on a retinue P.lpeake- Chronicle'.