Star. — London, England, 1826-05-03 00:00:00

t h e co untry at proantlaboured, were slot, by any means, • attributable to the state of the Own Laws. He was, upon that account, Parry that his Majesty's Ministers isad postponed the consideration of that question, con vinced as he was, that the result of the discussion would b e , i n the words of the Right Hop. Secretary for Foreign Affeirs, to convince the opponents, as well as the *deo votes, of the measure, hat that for which they had been so long contending was really of no consequence— while its effect upon the people at large would be the promotion of union, or, at least the prevention of dis imion, upon so important a subject; look although the House had, In his *plain, inindicisudy postponed the coosideradon of the go. nerd question to a future period, he saw no reason for objecting to No pram measure, which was, be cooddered, railed for open wary principle of npediency and sound policy—(Hear)..—Should It be carried, as be bad every hope it would, through that Mane,' he visited it would melt with so impedimart elsewhere. He hoped that no considentio• of print* interest would operate in Nay after-question to defeat a measure frets which, in the absence 'nf one of a more general astute, be uoticlpeted, under misting dr `cumstasoes. the greatest good. V Colonel WOOD was of opinion that little or no ad riin'tage would result from the proposed measure, or any partial measure. Ministers ought, at once, to look the question in the face, and either liberate all the bonded corn, or say at what price it should be imported. He would, for himself say, that a duty of 12s. would t,, quite sufficient. Under the present system, the ports were to temain closed until the average price of corn arrived at 80s. The reason of this regulation proceeded from the fact of the agricultural interests batting been in a state of extreme depression since the year 1822, when it-was passed. Upon that occasion a protecting duty of 7.4 was . proposed, but that not having been considered stufficient. 80s. was substituted. It was at the same time , determined that the ports were to continue open until the price fell back to 70s. The agricultural interest had, fortunately, survived the crisis under which they were, upon that occasion, bbouriss, and the necessity for such an enutinent consequently ceased. Ho (CeL Woad) therefore thought that it would be very fair if Ministers were, for the future, to open the ports whets the average price wan 40s. or 655. Lord MILTON said, the arguments made use of by the Hon. Member who spoke last would have much better applied to the discussion which had been expected' on the 18th of April, than to that which was then before them on the 2d of May. The Right Hon. Secretary for Foreign Affairs had said, that it was not by any means the intention of Ministers, in bringing . forward the-nsea sure which they now proposed, to Interfere with the general question of the Corn Laws. He (Lord Milton) thought, however, that by acceding to the present measure, the House would be investing his Maje4ty's Ministers with a power which he should be very unwil ling to intrust to any body of men. however high their character. It would, in his opinion, be much more preferable at once to enter upon an investigation of the causes of the present distresses. Those distresses could hot have been unforeseen by Ministers, and he certainly thougnt they would be deserting their duty if they allowed Parliament, which yet had some months to run, t• dissolve, without entering into the most full and de liberate inquiry into the subject. He thought the po pulation of this country, and more particularly that Faction of it which now laboured under severe distress, would have something to complain of his Kiesty's Government, if they should propose to do nothing more towards the alleviation of that distress, th4n to admit the handed corn to be brought into the 04rcet, end' to grant to the Crown power to . admit, the rice*, the importation of such quantities of corn *sable Crown toighe think fit , ..(ifear).— By laws of this country, every individual in distress P as entitled to parochial relief. At the present moment be considered the manufacturers of Lancashire were 'paupers, and the c' untry at large was their parish, hear), and that for their relief, not only the parishes of Manchester and of Bury, but the State at large, ought to contribute. and the more particularly, because be was satisfied that Acts dose by, and speeches made in, that Haile, hail tended to promote, by a remote operatimr„ the calamities under which those persons laboured. Over-trading (essouragod by the measures sanctioned by that Home). and the convulsion came pest upon weer.trading, were the causes of the present calamities ; sod, under such,. circumstaecte, the country would be justified In taking under their protection persons Mr were the poor of the State generally. (Loud cheers). Mr. G. PHILLIPS should much lament if this mea sure were not carried. He denied that the people of Lancashire were under the delusion, that their distresses arose immediately from the Corn Laws. They were lly a well-informed and intelligent population. generally them, if they bad an opportunity, would puzele the Country Gentlemen who held their heads so high. He referred to a meeting of the working classes some time ago, at Manchester, on the subject of the Corn Laws, and particularly to the moderate and sensible speech of John Hodgin. He trusted that the liberal subscriptions made that day in the city of London would have a happy dint upon the minds of the labouring classes in Lan. oak% anti tends them not to look for relief to nets of outrage and vioisoce,bst op* coabdence in the upper classes of society,wboto they would always lard their best resource in distress and Ababa. Mr. CALCRA FT thought the measures proposed by Ministers were calculated to produce disunion between the landed and manufacturing interests. Miniiters, on the 18th of April, induced him and a majority of the House to vote against the consideration of the Corn Laws, and only five days ago they said they had no intention of letting out the bonded corn. He feared the measures they now proposed would not relieve the ma saficturers. But if letting out the bonded corn would only soothe the distress of one artisan, in Goat's name let it go. But if the power asked by the Ministers to opal the ports was conceded, the landed interest would feel that their protection was taken from them without inquiry or distsisson. band of producing a goad understanding between the two great interests, the very contrary would be the result. Bat what would beheld and Canada say is this change ? Would they repeal the Corn Laws without allowing them any shaft is the discussion, without say consideration of whether they would lose or gain by this alteration? It erstalta be better at once to take the vote of the Hama 01) the subject, and decide whether the system wan•lo exist any longer or not. These were his name for compering in the amendment peopeeell by the Musetweble aroma (Sir T. Lethbridge). Heave nona sou wy cluwerwasso should est propose a vete et nicest to relieve the distress. Having doss se * the case of foreigners, Haeo sad ediiesorbi net muse forward with a dailies' measure to relieve *staters** of their own esuietrymen? • Stir J. NEWPORT did not see how the p remedy could Teuton the existing distress. Irlf,Cvd eve, the manufacturerewere impressed with an idea that letting out the bonded corn would tend to remove their difficulties, it ought to Ile done. He bad a de cidedohjection •to the wooed part of the measure. If it Should become absolutely necessary to allow impor tation, Ministers ought to take the responsibility on thaisowes! and come afterwards to roslialtheat to indemnify dam- Irbtleara Laws, whether objectimahle of not, should be [ally is qui* int o, and not got rid of in sisisamemer by a sidemiad. Is his Pillion 'be but way wadi be to Ottheaspeelaseli, fee a cer tain term of years, of the hive/biting - et nseAm cure its lied detT. S. Lord J 61114 ReS3IIILL must cot. plain of the cone duct of Ministers in this business, Having voted with them a fosinight back. on the grossed that it would not be : advisable to enter this session into the consideration of the Corn Laws, it seemed to him great matter of complaint, that they should now come forward with such a proposition as this. Was it not a virtual admis slon, that the Corn Laws were founded in bad policy, send by yielding upon this occasion, they would set a roost dangerous precedent. Notwithstanding the re commendation of the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Canning), the whole debate turned, not on the ex isting distress, but on the Corn Laws. He doubted much the applicability of these remedies. From the best in formation he could collect, and he had spoken to those who were well acquainted with the subject,the only effect of letting out the bonded corn, would be to prevent the prices from rising, but not to lower them. If such were the case, how could it remove the difficulties now feat by the manufacturing population ? He must be permitted to ask why the - Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Huskisson) had not taken these matters into his consi deration until within a few days? Even if the result of the measure should be a difference of 10s. in the price of the quarter of corn it could be of little benefit. With respect to the second part of the proposition, it appeared a monstrous power to place in the hands of Government. —lf the result should be a great fall of pike, it might i have, for many years, a ruinous effect on. the agricul tural interest, and if the price should rise greatly, in that case a duty of 12s. would be too much. The whole question should be fully considered, and such measures adopted as would be calculated to protect all interests, agricultural, and manufacturing. Ministers would abandon their duty if they did not enter into the inquiry. If it was true that want of credit was the cau.e of the distress, an advance of money on the part of Government might be highly bei.eficial, by enabling the manufacturers to go on. If, however, the distress arose from too great a supply, a loan could be of no use. All these matters would be fit subject of consideration for a Select Committee. His opinion was, that some alteration might be made in the Corn. Laws, with great advantage to the country ; and if such was, as it appeared to be, the opinion of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Culling), he should not have allowed the present Session to pass without proposing an altera tion. Had : the subject been brought on by the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Huskisson), and stated with his usual force and clearness, there was no doubt that a bendicial change could hare been made In the system. The landed interest was not so bare as to entertain a wish of serving themselves at the expense of another classes of their fellow subjects. Mr.fIUSKISSON.—Sir, I 'still retain the opinion on h I acted a fortnight since, that the present year is n t a fit time for the revision of the Corn Laws, and for a final adjustment of that important question; in that opinion I am still more confirmed by my observe. don of all chat has occurred out of doors, and by all that has been uttered within them, even by the various speeches of the several Gentlemen who have preceded me in the debate. As to those Gentlemen who deduce their arguments in favour of a decision in this Parlia ment from the distressed state of the country, and from the agitation of the public mind, I must confess that they look at the subject in a point of view quite different from that in which) I have consideted it. When my Right Hon. Fi iced, in giving his notice of motion last night, expressed a hope that the discussion .of details may be deterred till we should have gone into the Committee, he was met; even by those Gentlemen who were used to oppose him in that House with such a spontaneous and universal concurrence, in the opinion that this particular motion should be considered sepa rately from the general question of the Corn Laws, un influenced by any partial feeling, unmixed with any heterogeneous matter, unconnected with any motive Limn a wish to do the best for the people in their peewit state of safferinr—(Lood cheers.)—This con estrence of opinion, I thought a happy omen of the promptitude and success which I expected would attend our subsequent measures for the benefit of the public; but since yesterday evening, new lights have shone upon the subject—the ingenuity of Hon. Members has been exercised to prove that his Majesty's Ministers have an indirect motive in bringing forward the sap. ri in, and that the only effect which they intend to pro duce by it is to persuade the people that the Corn Laws alone are the cause of their present distress—(hear) — and that conclusion Gentlemen would deduce from' ) our simple proposal to let free a quantity of bonded corn, less, in point of fact, than that which we admitted into the market last year--(Hear, hear). This is a strange inference indeed, and anything but a logical one. I deny its correctness. The Ministers attempt to convince the public that the Corn Laws are the cause of the popular distress; so far from it, that I say the Cute Laws are not the cause of the distress--(Meers)-- and I must condemn that mode of masoning as unjust and unfair, which would infer such a motive on the part of the Government, from the introduction of a measure which is intended solely to relieve the suffering, and to sooth the irritation of the misguided populace. This is my opinion; it may be worth little in itself, but I feel it sincerely, and I will as sincerely declare it. Its justness may be decided by a reference to a few facts. I Let Gentlemen bring to their mind the relative shoes don of the manufacturing interest in the last year, and in this. In the former, they may remember an abun dance of employment, and an excessive spirit of specu lation prevailed; every spot of the New World was ransacked for raw materials of manufacture; the wide extent of public credit was scarcely sufficient to supply the demands of. commercial enterprise ; yet, even at that time; the price of corn was higher by eight shil lings the quarter than it : is in the present period of dis tress. What then becomes of the arguments of those who would impute to us a desire to spread among the people erroneous and mischievous opinions on the sub ject of the Corn Laws? This simple statement of facts is sufficient to prove that the price of corn, if kept within moderate limits, has not that alleged influence on the provenly of the manufacturing population. When I say, that the p ice of corn last year was higher than it is in this, I hope it may not be inferred from it, that the present price of corn, as compared with the re dtiCed price of labour and of other commodities, is not much above the corn price of last year. No, I cannot concur in that philosophy, which says, that that is a natural state of things id 'Which the price of labour is in 'an invorss ratio to the price of corn ; it is a theory which I acknowledge does not come home to my understand iug.--(Learghter.)—But I shall decline, at present, ea toting ibto a detailed argument of the opinion, in com pliance with the general wish of the Eloise to avoid a discussion of the general sysem of the Corn Laws. A No ble Lord opposite has asserted that the present distress has proceeded from a want of pecuniary credit among the ataster-manufactusers; as to credit, its absence or ex- LOW* perhaps little more than a matter of °pintos, net tangible by a practical measure of legislation. The only way to reestablish credit is to restore a demand for manufactured produce; a demand will raise the prices, and an increase of the prices will restore stabi lity to public credit; bit this is 'not the cause of the present state of the country ; the distress has been caused by want of work, for though all our manufacturers are not out of employment, many of those who are employed receive but very miserable wages. Now, if we could adopt a measure which would tend to make the price of the people's subsistence commensurate with the re duced sum of their wages—(cheers)—and help the un• employed manufacturers to eke out to the greyest possible extent the limited aid of charitable donations, I think we should be doing a great public service.— In the next place, we ought to take measure; for pre venting the price of corn from rising higher than its pre sent rate; and when it will be recollected, that such a measure would only have the effect of preventing a quantity of corn from going to decay in the ware houses, I cannot think that any Hon. Gentleman will be found eager to object to it. Such a measure is ren dered particularly necessary at the present period, by the tendency of corn to a higher rate. I hold in my hand a comparative statement of the prices of corn in the last five weeks, from the 19th of March to the 231 April ; and the prices at the same period of the year 1821, and for the same space—(Here the Right Hon. Member quoted some numbers).— The result of which , chews that the price of corn was inc. easing, and would increase, if we would not let out. .the quantity which was deposited in bond, namely, 450,000 quarters, through a fear of the price rising to 801. This ground it was on which the landed interest supported the libera tion of bonded corn last year, and on which I brought I forward the motion on the measure. But now, in the i year 1826, is it fair to expect that we can e ffect the same object by the former limited means alone, under different circumstances and with different views, when the price of corn has already limn from 545. 11d. to 60s. Old. and while the price of every other article of onr staple commodity is depressed, why may not corn also be made to undergo a slight depres sion of price, through a compliance with the benevolent feeling for the sufferings of ' a large portion of the community? —(Cheers).—And in looking to the cir cumstances of this and last year's discussion, it should be remembered that there do not nisi at present obstacles to the liberation of bonded corn which e asserted by some persons out of that House, and by hers within it. Now to another point, namely the !! :$l, disc ionary power proposed to be given to Ministers to admit foreign corn—and here I Must remark that that part of the question should in justice be postponed till we should have carried the measure into the Com mittee. In that stage of the proceeding we should be prepared to explain our views, and submit our plans to the consideration of the House. As for myself I give no opinion as to the quantity of corn at present in the country—and I think that it would be very rash in any Honourable Member to declare an opinion on the point in the absence of all statistical informa tion. Such a rash and unfounded assertion—that we had not sufficient corn for subsistence, and that coming in an apparently authentic shape, may lead to the most serious consequences—(Heir.) But consider iugthe fact that the price of corn has been rid* during the last six weeks, a fact ascertained by ail average returns made by the inspector from nary great Mal kec town in the kingdom ; and that the supply 'of last month is less by several hundred thousand quarters than that of the preceding; and reeollectini also, that, in the year 1823, when a depression was caused by causes, some of them similar to the present, in the prices of all other articles, that corn was but thirty-eight shillings, at a time that the currency was so low. From all these facts it wiU be seen, that the price of corn must be now made commensurate with that of other commodities. Last year, between the months of June and the beginning of the harvest, we liberated ,sot less than 500,000 quarters of corn from bond, and that though that harvest was earlier by a month than any preceding one, these circumstances were the reasons why the posts were not opened last year to foreign corn in August ; and, but for this, the price would have deen to eighty shillings. Now, I put it to the Gentle s** of the landed interest, whether such an alternative would not have been most injurious to the general coun try. From a consideration of these facts lam induced to say, that between this time and the-next harvest we may be placed in the greatest difficulty. lam sure my Hon. Friend will agree with me, that a price of eighty shillings would be little less than a calamity to the country ; and that such a condition would tend to shake society to its very elements of security. In what a situation should we be, if, with such a pike, we could procure no corn between the present May and the 15th of August? For after this, you cannot, by existing re gelation; admit foreign corn, even though the price should have arisen to one hundred shillings a quartet. And then, when famine was stalking through the land, would that be a time to legislate en such an important subject with temper or reason, or to spend time in pro. tracted discussions on the general principle of the sys tem? If Ministers should not obtain a discretionary au thority of acting in such an alternative, the prices of corn must. rise. There are instances on record, I believe, of Mi nisters having admitted corn en their own responsibility, and afterwards coming to the House for a Bill of lodes , . nity. But such a power ought to be exercised by the autho rity of Parliament alone. The duty must he contingent on 'the price, and should be imposed only under the sanc tion of an Act of Parliament. What we ask from Par liament is a power electing conformably to the possible, circumstances of the country? As to the limited duty, what should binder Parliament from fixing any limit' to it they may think proper? We do not ask the power of opening the ports till the next meeting of Parliament but under cams restrictions, and in the occurrence of particular circumstances. These restrictions and pos sible cases may be fixed on in the resolutions of the Committee. You may limit even the amount of duty and the price at which foreign corn may be admitted. We should feel obliged to Parliament for such limita tions and conditions, as they would serve to guide wain the practical execution of the measure. Let Parlia meat then admit corn now, while the price is so much greater than of former periods, lethal' not separate under the present difficulties and state of public feeling without giving to us a power of proving to the people OW attention to their interests, and our sympathy in their suirerings--(Chays).—Lat them determine whether the liberation of the bonded cora in the present sate of comparative prices be necessary or not? but for 47 pin I fear the consequences of leaving the country (hoot the meats of giving relief to the people, in the Oast of such an extreme ease. A liberation of the corn ',sow will prevent any further pressure. The support of gieh a missive is not connected with the merits of the general question, nor would it bind any Hon. Member twiny particular course on the discussion of the system. The measure must tend to alleviate same present suffer ings, and heal much angry feeling. As to the admis sion of foreign corn, which I hope may not be necessary, the very possibility of its occurs ence is an esposure to a great calamity, and ought t r be by every means avoided. I know that those m asures will lighten all the actual wants of the people ; but I know also, that if the glut of commodities continues, and the prices of ail manufactured commodi , ies sink still tower, that the agriculturists will •share in the general digress. As to the alarm at the liberation of the bonded corn (only $OO,OOO quarters) though the quantity may not much lessen the present distress immediately, it mast tend to a partial speculation, and revival of ra Iona! eate4rise; these will produce a demand for commo. dities, and the demand must give life to commercial credit, and employment to the manufacturers. The House ought to remember. too, that tie cotton trade was one which bad receiied the least benefit from the late legislative improvements of our commercial code, and that it was, on the present occasion, the more de serving of the regard of Parli ,ment. Having trev. passed so long upon the House, I shall only refer now to a queAine put to me, on a former evening, by an Hun. Member, namely," Whether we (Ministers) meant , o put the bonded corn in circulation r My answer, on that occasion, I confess, was, " That we did not intend to discuss the Corn Laws this Session."—(A laugh).—Now that may have been considered an odd way of answering suck a plain question; but what would the House think bf me, as a Minister of the Crown, if I had given a direct communication to the loose incidental question on such an important subject of the Government Councils? I will appeal to anT Honourable Gentleman to say, whether I could have made any other answer than I did. With respect to the relief to be afforded to the present sufferers from the stagnation in the manufacturing districts, I do think that one of the most efficient means for their relief will be found in the Poor Laws. It is their beneficent effects, under such circumstances, which goes far to reconcile me to them in spite of their defects, and acknowledged abuses. I look to the operation of these laws as the only safe or prudent course that can be adopted for the gradual amelioration of the distress till the demand for tabour, which must be found in the demand for manu factured goods, will give them the means of earning a @abdicate, without aid the beuevoleoce of individuals, or compulsory law. I shall say so more than that the proposals asses by my Right Boa Colleague may produce advantage, and slay avert the mils whidt sow .seem to thrums as. I shall therefor* oppose the motion for ipiug loto the Committee of bigotry (Hear.) - kr. WHITMORI .ia expienetios, said that be bad never ai sorted that the stock of tens IS baud was so short as sat to be able to carry us as till the mit barred. Mr. J. WILLIAMS thought the House was in a very embarrassing situation, the Right Hon. Gentleman not having said one word on the subject of any mea sure for the specific relief of the distressed artisan*. The Corn Laws were all that occupied the attention of the Right Hon. Gentleman —(t ries of Qmostiox) ;—be really thought that it might be consideted just and reasonable that when a large portion of *his Majesty's 'subjects were starving, that House should enter, with a little minuteness, into the discussion of means for their relief. He repeated that the President of the Board of Trade bad given them no intimation or hope with re t to the sufferings of those poor people; sad as that was the ease,helhought they ought to institute as inquiry Before they agreed to the motion proposed to them-. iipec He thought discretion with respect to the Corn Laws ought not to be given to Ministers, without Parliament first ascertaining and settling that great question. A state manly, candid, and honourable course would have bees to meet the whole question fairly at owe, and sot awed from the &Welty as they had dime, when his Hes. Friend before brought the matter under their notice, by d to enter into the discussion. He, for one, would an anent to Onie the whole agrisulture of the country in the hands of Illeisteti till the ant Meeting of Parliament. . Mr. WODRHOUSIC had always said that Parlinseatee tsht not to separate, leaving the restriction price of wheat at SOL He however had never meant to bind himself to support the Minister is treadl' epos any principle of the Clan Laws. The Moen then divided, when there appeared for the original postioo—Ayes, 214; Noes, te—Majority In favour et ping into * Committee. 1 et. The original motion was then agreed to without a division. Os ge.entering the gallery, we found the House in a Cetnesittee, and Sir .I. SEBRIGHT declaring that be would oppose the woad • reselation, beano' be considered that it involved the whole gees. Idea of the Corn Laws—(Hear.) Sir T. MTH SRI DOR wished the Right Hon. See - genre would add Se. to the Its. which be proposed to six as a ditty on the cora is bead—(No, no} He would not press this point, as be saw it was against the muse of the House. Hs was disposed to support the Int reputation, because he thought that it would be a palliative initial/Aka distress. He hoped. however, that the House would reject the second resolution. • Mr. Secretary CANNING mid, that the Hon. Baronet who had just spokes, seemed to mistake the principle epee which the aligned duty of ss. had been imposed on corn allowed to be is. ported last year. The duty of Ss. was imposed in addition to the =tduty of les. expressly for the purposes of preventing as ad unlimited influx of foreign eon. With respect to the snood enchains, he cooed aware the Committee. that he wood be very glad to have the power conferred by it limited in any way Parlieseet might deem proper ; and if the peke eitills. 'guested by the Si... Member far Norfolk should he amediered a fair prier, be i lei aeletisethsa to consent that the power tobrestekti is Milieus die=ft come into operation till cern reached the; peke. He bound to declare, that Govereepent Ind in ineestine 1 211eift diet any inference should be drone ?rasa the vote eguthildi the wee might come epos the Tonkel's to be applii# wises elft Iftsellea of the final setdement of the ens trade eked some ender dlesuesiss—(Hear.) Mr. lIRNETT said, that the power of bringing the billed cone tamerliet would give the owners, even at the higher key of 17$. illettemeasess profit, set less than 115,0001.- With repel to the peppered diserstionarr power to Ministers, he should preFer that of s sameiste discretion as to price, to a discretion limited to the 65e. hie. Secretary CANNING observed. be had only expressed hi it willingness to amen in the limitatienons eddeference to the debase whose views the Mon. /biebernipsated to bags Mr. HUSKISION said, that *s good= at igrall monk whether er. sot they would, by pesaing the sasedes the principle of the meessres whisk hail hoss .'"'.— pro;esid .- 1 If they did motes the prisdpb, it would be a setter eci f unit egneseissee to assent to the leseludens es the present l _. The fret Reesistion, “ That it was the eplaien of the CormaiNse that Beaded Cora ought to be admitted isle the Home lieent," was thou ended. Ups the roadie( of the second Resolution, " That It was ex. paw* le empown the Zing in Council to permit the Lapertatioa of Forelp Grain when it was considered necessary," Lad - MILTON, maid that he entertained so many desist tithe ' of granting such a power, that he would now move deft the report progress, an d leave twit spin. % The Committee then divided— • Fee reporting Progress, 40 1 Against it, 10! I Majority, en. Daubs our absence, Mr. Bows, et Wiltshire, divided else 0111111111fte upon the question that the Chaim'e do leave the ark. • sr. secretary CANNING said that he would anent ti..the . .. Amish be considered the sort of opposition which had hies Mersa to the Resolution most unreasonable—(Hear). The Hone then resumed the Chairman reported progress, and .asked leave to sit spin on I. The Westminster Improvements' Bill was read a third time end passed.—Thu edict Ganser the Day were pee through, and the Home adjoined at a Qsaussa To Two o'C.r.oca. A