Star. — London, England, 1813-11-09 00:00:00

/ self them, sad of the expediency of pu!tids as end tciit with all possible expedition. Anticipating them fore' no Objection to his. proposition, he would. prop geed without farther preface to move, That leave be Oven to bring is a Bill to secure Purity of Election id. the Borough of Holston.. Mr. Selma ONSLOW heartily seconded the mo. don, declaring, that, in his opinion no case called more loudly for the interference of the Legislature than that of the Borough of Helstone, the corruption and profligacy of which had been carried on so long that those who were guilty of that , corruption and pro. fiiracy were scarcely sensible of the crimes they com mitted. Leave given. dye. Froth this situation the Spaniards could look down upon Bayonne, where their Sovereign had been treacherously made prisoner, and the Crown given to a foreigner, and from whence the French army, niarched to complete. as they imagined, the conquest , of Spain, commenced initreachery and fraud. What a difference might now be contemplated in the return of the wreck of that army beaten and discomfited to the same city. lii thee reviewing our successes in the Peninsula, he could not but recal to their Lord- ships' recollection, the share that Britain hadhad In bringing about the glorious eventathat had occurred in Europe, and which at length opened,a prospect of its attaining that independence, which had been so COMMIT= OF SIIPPLIL. long and anxiously looked for. If this country had On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the in one respect contributed more than another t 1 the EXCHEQUER, the House resolved itself into a glorious results that, had at length been achieved, it Committee of Supply, in which it was resolved-- was-not so much in the extent of our exertions, for "'h at a Supply be granted to his Majesty." these had been equalled by others, and by one coon- e House h a ving resumed, the Report was order try exceeded ; it was not so much in the skill of our ed' to be received to.exweepe, officers and the gallantry of our troops; for after the' LOCAL TOIDDIS' splendid Victories that had been recently obtained, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER we could only say, that the exploits of our own Great having moved the Order of the Day for the House Captain had not been surpassed ; it was not in the to resolve itself into a Committee on the Loral Tokens extent of our privations, for in this respect, Gon be . Act, thanked, we had been saved from this sad pre-emi- ' Mr. P. GRENFELL observed, that the trading hence; bat it was in our perseverance in the contest in part of the community, and pirticularly in the me. the Peninsula under every circumstance however un- tropolis, were very much inconvenienced by the re favourable, in the pertinacity with which we persisted dundancy of the copper circulation, and still more in maintaining even a corner of it, until circumstances by the base quality of the greater part of it. He led to snore auspicious events, and thereby holding wished to ask his Right Hon. Friend opposite, if it out a clear and bright flame amid the darkness that was in the contemplation of Government to adopt overspread the natives of Europe. that soon rose into any measure for the purpose of correcting this evil ? a pillar of fire to light them on their way to security, and should the answer be in the affirmative, he would independence, and peace. His Lordship concluded, wish still further to ask (should the question not be by moving the Thpnks of the House to Field Mar- deemed an improper one what was the nature of the shal the Marquis of We ll ington, for the eminent skill measure contemplated ? and ability displayed in the operations succeeding the The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER battle of Vittoria, terminating in the establishment of assured his Honourable Friend, that the circum the Allied Army on the French ;territory. I stances which he had mentioned had been more than The Earl of DARNLtY spoke in the highest once under the consideration of his Majesty's Govern. terms of the merits of Lord Wellington, particularly went. He did not feel himself at liberty to state the for the caution and - prudence he had displayed in for- nature of the measure which it had been in contem srierly maintaining the contest in Potkugal, and urged -elation to submit to the decision et Parliament for the adoption of some measure forgiving a. larger re- the purpose of obviating the evil. All that he could compence to that distinguished Commander, by the say was,' that some measure would probably be so purchase of an adequate estate, in order that the submitted. country might be gratified by the contemplation of I The House . having resolved itself into the Com- 1 the magnificent residence of Vittoria, as well as that , mittee, of Blenheim. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUEI I The motion` was agreed' to new. cfis. proceeded to state the reasons which induced torn to Earl BAT/V I IRST next moved the Thanks of the recommend to the Committee the expediency of con douse to Sir Thoinas Graham, for his skill and per- tinuing the existing Local Token Act. Among the severance in conducting the siege of St. Sebastian s. principal of these was the drain of the ordinary cur- Lord HOLLAND suggested that some words rencrof the country by the necessary exportation to should be introduced: , Ohe motion fur the purpose the Continent during the last summer. Unless that of contradicting the' genies published in the Spa; deficiency could be supplied, which was not imme - •. Dish papers. diatelt practicable, the greatest inconvenience would The Duke of NORFOLA i pbserved upon the no- be incurred by preventing the further circulation of velty of a distinct motinniktbanks to an officer under Local Tokens. He therefore proposed, that the Chair. the command of another,' . ; mat bye instructed to move for leave to bring in a Bill Earl BATHURST iaid;ihit Sir Thomas Graham ' to continue the Act. . bad closed a glorious military career with the affec- lhe Resolution was agreed. to, and the House , rd having mined' donate regard - and esteem of the whole army ; and he bad thonght it right to deviate from the usual course, for the purpose of distintily marking the merits of this distinguished officer. The motion, as originally proposed, was agreed to near. as were also Inotinn4 thanking the Gene. ral O ffi cers under the command orLord Wellington; the Officers, British, Spanish, and Portuguese; and highly acknowledging and approving the services of the oon.commisioned officers and soldiers, British, Spanish, and fortuguese • the Lord Chancellor to communicate them to the Marquis of Wellington. Adjourned till Wednesday. HOUSE OF COMMONS. The SPEAKER acquainted - the House.. that his Royal Highness the Prince Regent had been waited on with the Address of that House, to which his Royal Highness hid been pleased to return a most gracious answer. The Speaker here read the Answer, which was nearly in the following terms : 46 I thank you for this dutiful and loyal Address. The sentiments which it breathes, and the assurances of support which it contains, are such as become the Commons of R. great Empire, carrying to the Throne at such a moment the expression of their opinion The means which you have determined to place at my disposal, shall be employed by me in the manner mos; conducive, under Pstovt MICE, to the success of the great cause in which we are engaged ; and I trust, that through the :Jliance which has been form. ed with the Continental Powers, Europe may look forward to the attainment of a solid and honourable Peace." . On the motion of Sir S. ROMILLY an humble Address was ordered to be presented to his Royal Highness the Prince Regent, praying that he would cause to be laid forthwith before the House Accounts of the Persons that had been committed to the Gaols.' of Great Britain to be tried for criminal offences . during the years 1810, 1811, and 1812 ; distinguish• ing the crimes with which they were charged, and those acquitted from those convicted. Also similar accounts with respect to Ireland. A new writ was ordered for the County of Surrey, 'in the room of Sir Thomas Sutton, deceased. returned§ the Chairman of the Committee oh. :leave accordingly._ PERMANENT AND WAR TAXES. On the Motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHE QUER, Accounts were ordered to be laid before the HoUse of the Net Receipts of the Permanent Taxes, and of the War Taxes, in Great Britain, for the se veral quarters of the years ending sth ctober 1812, and sth October 1813. LEATHER. On the Motion of Sir C. MOKIC, a variety of Pa pers relative to the Leather Trade were ordered to laid before the House. They consisted chiefly of an Account of the Duties charged on Leather for the quarters ending the sth July and sth October, 1813, distinguishing the rates on the tanned and on the unwrought Leather ; an Account of the official Value of the Leather exported during that period, with similar distinctions ; an Account of the Qiian thy of raw and untanned Hides imported into Great Britain during the above-mentioned period, distin guishing those imported from Ireland, &c. &c. Mr,. HORNER, adverting to the Report presen ted to Parliament during the last Session by the Mi litary Commissioners relative to the Board of Works, expressed a wish that it should be printed, and mo ved to that effect. The CHANCELLOR of .the EXCHEQUER observed, however, that the document in question had actually been printed, and was on the Table of .the House. BOROUGH OF HEI.STONE. On the motion of Mr. BANKES, the Clerk hay -1 inn read from the Journals the Report of the Com miuee appointed to search the Lords' Journals on the Subject of the Helstone Election, Mr. B4NKES observed, that the circumstances attendant on the Bill of last Session for securing purity of election in the Borough of Helstone must I pc fresh in the recollection of the House. Having I passed in the House of Commons it had been carried to the House of ;ords at a peijod not long before the termination of the Session. This it was, perhaps, which' prevented any proceeding from being had in Lords on the subject. as it was well known that 94 such questions each House preferred taking evi dence itself to relying on the evidence afforded in the other ' and there was not time for examining in the House of Lords the necessary evidence in'the case to which he alludes'. for that smd other reasons he was desirous of thus early calling . the attention of the House to the subj ect. Whatever doubt might have csisted a; to the best of altering the constitu tion of the po T pugh, no objection bad been made in f s ny quarter to the proper . mbde of taking Parliamen-. try notice of the corropnoo, which havniz crept ioto the Borough of 494cosn 44 so loos snii4t4ed it. INSOLVIENT ACT. Mr. LOCKHART, on seeing a Right Honour able Gentleman opposite in his place, to whom the execution of the law on the subject peculiarly be longed, wished to ask him, whether it was intended to carry the existing Insolvent Act into effect, or to amend it in the first instance ? Mr. H. ADDINGTON replied, that he was not at present prepared satisfactorily to answer the Hon. Gentleman's inquiry. CONTINENTAL TREATIES. the Lord CASTLEREAGH, at the Bar of the House, presented from his Royal Highness the Prince Regent, copies of three Conventions entered into on the part of his Britannic Majesty : the first with his Prussian Majesty, dated the 14th June, 1813: the second with his Majesty the Emperor of all the Russias, dated 15th June, 1813 ; and the third also with his Majesty the Emperor of all the Rus sias, dated tith July, 1813. Lord CASTLEREAGH, in moving that these Papers should lie on the Table„took the opportunity of saying a few words on the state in which the coun try stood with tweet to this subject. The Treaties, copies of which he had just had the honour to pre sent, provided the aid which the Powers with whom they were contracted should derive from British cre dit on the Continent, subject to certain regulations -1 which regulations were comprised in subsequent con ! ventions, that had not been exchanged, although for ! mally signed.. It was his intention, after the present motion was disposed of, to move for the production of those subsequent Conventions, in order that the House might have a view of the whole of the details ' on which they might make a provision contingent on 1 the exchange of the last-mentioned Conventions. The Papers were ordered to lie on the table. Lord CASTLEREAGH gage notice, that on Monday next he would move to refer them to the Committee of Supply. 1 An Mumble 444 u; wm *Di on iho Motion of Lord CA:Tullman, mined to be preeered to his Royetititbne!‘ the Mace Regent, praying that he wookl be graciously pawed to order the three Con. supplementary to the above to be laid before SINECURE OP/ICES RILL. On the Motion of Mr. BASTIN. the Resolution of the House in 180, on 'the subject of Sinecures, haw ing been yead by the Clerk Mr. BANKES observed, that from the period of that Resolution a series of Bilis had been passed by the House for suspending the power of the Crown out the subject. The Act of last Session would expire some time in February. It being etinot, there. fore, to adopt a new measure ore period, be should move for leave to bring in a Bill to continue the said Act for a time to be limited.—Leave was granted. THE SPEAKER'S SPEECH. Mr. H. SUMNER, in pursuance of the Notice which he glee on Saturday, rose to make a motion, the adoption of which could not, in his opinion, be postponed, consistently with the dignity of the House and of the Right Hon. Gentleman who sat in the Chair. In the present stage of the business, there was but one step which he thought it possible to take— namely, to endeavour to put the House in possession of the document on which a Noble Lord had intima ted that his observations would be made. Those on , the one band who thought with the Noble Lord that I the speech made by the Speaker. at the Bar of the House of Lords, at the close of the last Session, con tained matter liable to animadversion ; and those on the other who were of opinion that it was free from blame, or even entitled to praise, must equally feel the impassibility of discussing the subject until an au thentic copy of the speech should be on the table.— Although certainly it could noF be considered an offi cial document, yet it had not been unusual in that House, under similar circumstances, to move that I Mr. Speaker be desired to print any speech which he I had so delivered. That was the course which he in tended to adopt on the present occasion. It might be expected that be should open to the House the ulterior views that he might entertain on the produc tion of the document. On this subject he would take the liberty of putting several questions to the Noble Lord who had given notice of a motion after the re cess, and on the answers to those questions would de pend the line of conduct which he should prescribe for himself. From the known candour and libera- lity of that Noble Lord, both in public and in pri vate life, he had no doubt that he would not hesitate to inform the House, whether the observations which he had declared it was his intention to make on the Speech of the Speaker at the bar of the House of Lords, tended to criminate the Speaker, either by imputing to him that he had acted without precedent in expounding the opinions of that House, or, admit ting that he _had followed precedent, by charging him with an unfaithful exposition of that opinion.— If either of these objects was that of the Noble Lord, then, identified as the honour and purity of the Speaker'sl character were with the dignity of their proceedings, it would, in his opinion, be imperative on the House to enter on an investigation of the me- rits of the case at a period much earlier than that fixed by the Noble Lord. If, on the other hand, the Noble Lord had no other object in the motion of which he had given notice, than to make it a vehicle for remark on the motives which had induced the House to reject the Catholic Bill, thereby indirectly I involving a re.consideration of the Catholic Question, it was a matter of indifference, whether the subject should be discussed at present, or at the period fixed on by the Noble Lord, who had indeed assigned as I the cause of the delay of his motion the absence of the Members of the sister country, who were most nearly interested in the decision of that question.— For his part he conceived that it was the duty of the Irish Members to be present at the commencement of the Session. If the object of the Noble Lord was that which he had first described, the House ought not to wait for their arrival; if his object was merely the indirect revival of the Catholic Question, then it might be desirable to postpone the discussion until those could attend who would be disposed to take so large a share in it. Trusting that the House would grant him the indulgence of making any farther re marks which the reply of the Noble Lord might reit ' der necessary, be would now content himselt with moving—t 6 That the Speaker be desired to print the Speech made by him to the Prince Regent at the bar of the House of Lords, on Tharsday, the 22d July, 1813, on presenting several Money Bills, which then received the Royal Assent." As the SPEAKER was reading the motion, Mr. TIERNEY wished to know whether the Ho nourable Mover meant that the Speech should be printed with the votes, or merely for the informa tion of the House ? If the former, it should be re collected that that was always considered as a mark of approbation, and be was sure that the Honour able Move; did not mean that the Speech of the Speaker should be approved until it had been con sidered. If it was intended merely to print the Speech for the purpose of putting it into the hands of Members, to that proposition no objectioncould apply. Mr. SUMNER was proceeding to explain his ob ject, when Mr. BATHURST observed, that there was no question before the House. The SPEAKER then read the motion; upon which Mr. SUMNER said, he had no hesitation in stat ing, that his sole and exclusive object was to bring before the House the document on which the Noble Member had declared it to be his intention, at a fu ture period, to observe. He repeated, that this step appeared to him to be called for by the honour and dignity of Parliament. At the same time it would be but fair and candid to add, that in conformity to usage on such occasions the Speech must be entered on the Journals of the House. That proceeding, how ever, would by no means imply the approbation of the House of its contents. Mr. BANKES expressed himself to be distinctly of the same opinion. was not to be inferred, be cause the ordinary mode of Inserting the Speech in the Journals could not be departed from that the approbation of the Hou se was thereby implied. The Speech made in 1777, at the bar of the House of Lords by Sir Fletcher Norton, was printed with the votes; but was that con s id ere d to imply the appro bation of Parliament? By no means. In the course of that same Session several Members animadverted vla Sir Non pies Speech, and although eventually the Homo Clllll9 to a vote of approbation on the sub ject, thelvery discussion proved that it would have been equally competent to them to come to a vote of disapprobation. Feeling the impossibility of adopt ing any her mode, consistently with Parliamentary practice, he had himself assisted his Hon. Friend in drawing out the motion before the House. Me. TIERNEY, notwithstanding the precedent adduced by the Hon. Gentleman, still contended that the admission into the Journals, of a Speech by the Speaker, bad always been deemed a mark of the ap probation of the House. Without intending the slightest personal disrespect to the Speaker, he must protest against this being considered to be the case is the present instance. For his part he was at a loss Al conceive what inconvenience could be occasioned by the production of the Speech as a simple docu ascot; Mr. ROSE detailed the history of the proceedings on the speech made by Sir Fletcher Norton in 1777. The printing of that speech by no means implied the approbation of the House. It was un.de on the 7th of May. On the 9th of May, only two days alter, came on the question of its tneriu; and although the thanks lithe House of Common were voted to Jai F. Norton for the speech, yet the discussion afforded abundant proof, that if in the present insoumetheHousefollowed the precedent of 1777, they would sot be precluded from expressing a treeopinion on the speech in question. Lord MORPETH said, that having bear an pointedly called upon by the Hun. Mover, he must be permitted to say a few words or. a subject in which, as he had stated on giving his notice, the honour a:.4 dignity of Parliament were so deeply involved. But before he answered the questions whiclaJaad Leen pa: to him, he begged to be allowed to say a single word respecting a supposed connection between his notice and some expressions that had fallen on the s tme eve°. ing from the Honourable Member for Bedford. He assured the House that he was perfectly unaware of the intention of the Honourable Member for Bedford to say any thing on the subject ; he had received no notice of such an intention. There could therefore be no connection of the kind alluded to. When the Speaker bad, with so much propriety (in reply to the observations made by the Honourable Member for Bedford) declared his readiness to meet any charge that might be preferred against him on the subject, he (Lord Morpeth) had thought it his duty, enter ' tainuting the opinions which he did entertain, to come forward - and intimate his intention, at a subsequent period, to bring the question under the consideration of Parliament. With respect to the inquiries made by the Honourable Member for Surrey, he was ap. prehensive that he could not furnish the Honourable Gentleman with information that would pro* saris. factory to him. He was not at present prepared to lay before the House the scope and extent, much less the frame and construction of the motion that it was his intention to submit to them. This, however, he - was prepared to say—that if he was rightly informed of the nature of the speech made by ;be Speaker at the bar of the House of Lords, in his view of the subject that speech conveyed expressions which, both on parliamentary and on constitutional grounds, were extremely questionable ; and which deserved the se. rious attention and the solemn investigation of a full House of Commons—a House of Commons which should contain those Members who were favourable to the measure to which the expression be alluded to referred, as well as those inimical to it. • With that conviction and impression he had given his notice for an early period alter the recess, and should persevere in making his motion at that period, unless some other proceeding, on the part of the House, should . prevent him from doing so. It could scarcely be necessary for hire to say, that in giving his notice he 'had abstained from all harsh expressions towards the distinguished individual who was the object. He hadbeen too long a Member of that House, and had • too frequently witnessed the general excellence of the manner in which that individual had discharged the high duties entrusted to him, to enter on au investi gation of any part of his official conduct with other sentiments than those of the deepest respect. Mr. B. BATHURST shewed,•that the Noble Lord's conduct was calculated to place the House in a very awkward situation. For the Noble Lord had distinctly alledged, that the speech of the Right Ho- nourable Gentleman in the Chair, on the occasion alluded to, was extremely questionable, and yet be proposed to postpone, to a distant day, the decision of a charge ao materially affecting the dignity of the House and the character of the Right Honourable Gentleman who held the high office of presidingg, over its deliberations. Now he would put it to the House, whether it would be fitting or fair to pursuseanch a 'line of proceeding towards any iudividual whatever, whose conduct might be brought under the consider. , don of that or of any candid assembly ? On this occasion he felt himself at hoerty to urge that which be was before prevented from stating, when he had endeavoured, perhaps irregularly, to press upon the attention of the House. But although at that time, namely, when the Noble Lord gave notice of his • motion, be (Mr. Bathurst) was properly interrupted, yet it must be in the recollection of the Noble Lord and others, from whom the interruption proceeded, that a practice had long prevailed of putting questions to individual Members when there was no motion whatever before the House. He, therefore, although no doubt, not strictly regular, did not, in putting a ques tion to the Noble Lord respecting the nature of his intended motion, deviate from a Tong permitted prac tice. But to revert to the subject immediately under the consideration of the House, he thought that it involved a question of privilege, and was it fair that on such a question, particularly the Speaker, whose . peculiar duty it was to take care of the privileges o: that House, should for so long a period have the ct it sure even by implication, suspended over his •of having deliberately violated those privileges. He was aware that no Member could be forced to bring_ . any motion into discussion sooner than lie himself thought expedient ; but he submitted it to the can t I dour of the Noble Lord, whether, as it might be deemed analogous, any charge were made against any public Minister; whether, if it were alledged in that House that any letter addressed by one !Alias= to another, or even to a subordinate officer, container something "extremely questionable," it would be con ceived fair and liberal to deny the individual accused. the earliest possible opportunity of vindicating inm• self against the accusation ; whether it not:L.:be jut: to put off the trial of the accused to an indefinite ps nod If such a course were not just, and be am- du 11 1.71 of U 1 a se se S -