Star. — London, England, 1820-05-06 00:00:00

~1 1 1111) } I. 4 7 9 1 s f distinctions, stood his afflicted country in no larger a sum than 11. 18s. Bd. a. year !—(Loud laughter).— Next came the Minister of St. Botolph's, and, as he descended, appeared .hose more useful, mere indus trious, and not less eminently distinguished Officers of State, namely, the Churchwardens of St. John the Baptist, at salaries of £l. 3s. and £5. each ! Then came the Schoolmaster of Southwark—in short, the ark itself contained nothing like the variety of the seventh class l—(Loud laughter). Here were sped . mens of every description of human beings—Clergy, Laity, Gents, and Nobles ! Nor were they always sorted together in - pairs, as in the ark—but four or five of the same species were combined together ; sometimes, perhaps, for the sake of variety, there was but one of the same kind. The Universities appeared conspicuous in the seventh class. There were Regius Professors in abundance, Corporations, a Mayor, a. Minister of the Savoy, &c. But, not satisfied with these terrestrial objects, they must also include celes tial ones. There was the Astronomer Royal, at a salary of £62. 10s.; the Master of Christ's Hospital, the Genealogist, the Master of the Hawks, the Mas ter of the Ceremonies, the Marshal of the Ceremo nies, &c. But even the beasts of the forest were not deemed unworthy the dignity of a place in the se venth class ! Het e was a salary to the Keeper of the Lion. in the Tower, and a Latin Secretary was re tained at £7O a-year ! There was next an Exchequer Watchman ! He (Mr. Brost ham) did not know if' the Ri!...ht Hon. Gentleman was acquainted with this personage—(llnch laughter). But for his part, pro vided the watchman did his duty, he would not grudge him a larger salary. There were, perhaps, five of these dignitaries, who had together a salary of £lOB a-year. Tu his sorrow, however, he found in another part, that these Gentlemen watched to the tune of thousands per annum ! All that he wished from them was, that they would produce much bet ter evidences of their official activity in the Exche quer department, than were to be found in the un-' fortunate confusion of the Civil List. He had been turned aside front the immediate subject of the mo tion by these remarks, but they would be found ser viceable towards the general object be had in view. He wished that what was necessary to support the honour and dignity of the Crown should be given. Ile objected to have this arrangement made for the life of the Sovereign, be it short—which GOD forbid, or be it long, which he anxiously hoped for. But let it continue, as long as there was found no reason to alter it, by mutual consent. Why was a grant made only for life? because the Sovereign granted his hereditary revenue only for life. But this limited commu ation was the most ridiculous blunder that could w ell be committed. IVhat was the consequence in the Lae reign of sixty sears? Tins, that meat had to maks' six hew trrangemsnts of the Civil List during that time, and to pay eight times the arrears of the Civil List, and sometimes thc , e fresh art ange4nents occurred within a short ir.terval. It a commutation extending only to the lite of the Sove reign were made, if the life were shot t, it might be too much—it long, to o little. The only remedy was for Parliament to take permanent possession of all these Revenues, carry them to the Consolidated Fund, and pay the Sovereign a settled annuity instead—to keep separate from the provisions of the Crown the salaries of Judges, the salary of the Speaker of the House of Commons—a provision, next to that of the Monarch, that ought to be the least grudged by the country. By all means, however, have the expenses provided for by estimates; and, if necessary, there ought to be a Civil List extraordinary. In this man ner only could the digrity of the Sovereign be best consulted, a cLir and necessary arrangement of the civil exiendittire seemed, and economy satisfied.— With respect to the Droits of the Admiralty, he would only remind the House that they possessed all the bad qualities v,hich rendered revenues of this nature the objects of dislike to Parliament. They were occasional, coming at intervals—sometimes slowly, sometimes in a lump, and, what was worse than all, they could be turned-wit:: the greatest faci lity to a bad account. In proof of this lie should mention, that in Iso7 the slim of £118,050 carnv into the hands of the Sovereign, all at once, by the lunacy of a rich person. Some time after, anoiher stint came in in like manner, of £47,000 ; in 1809, a sum of 1:62M00. Ile did not cite these sums to complain of their enormity, but he objected to their irregularity, because some such sum might by acci dent be brought into the hands of the Soveiek, , n at some unlucky season—at the eve of a General Election, for instance. Again, to mention other, instances of the accidental falling in of money : in 1801, the confiscation of a ship produced to the Crown the sum of £105,000. Another shortly after brought in £40,000; another, in 1798, £60,000. But the proceeds of the Dutch prizes amounted to £1,030,000, the Spanish prizes to £2,200,000. Such was the irregularity of the proceeds; but there was one circumstance which would no doubt give rise to serious reaction in the. minds of the House. In 1306 his Majesty was graciously pleased, out of his great goodness and condescension, and in considera tion of the burthens of the country, to send down a Message to Parliament that he was willing to lay one million out of the Droits at the disposal of the house, with a view to relieve the digresses of the people. In answer to this gracious Message, the Commons returned their most . grateful acknowledg ments. Did he charge the Parliament with obse quiousness? Certainly not. But our ancestors would have discovered in these things a strange conversion of our constitutional order. What ! the Sovereign coming down to Parliament, and out of his gracious condescension giving money for the relief of the dis tresses of his subjects—to Parliament, whose functions it was to controul the provisions of the Sovereign, and instead of the King asking for pecuniary aid and. the• Parliament granting rt—the Crown giving an. the Parliament thanking him for the donation. There was a part of the funds which were of a per manent nature, though not of large amount, which required to be spoken of; namely, the surplus reve nues,from Batbadoes and the Leeward Islands, and the Civil , List of 'Scotland. The first of these did riot amount trilnose than £25,000, and the second consumedlin liensions, without the knowledgr or contioul of Parliament. The services for which these pensions. were ranted, might be good or bad, or there might be no services at all. So that in fact, these windfalls might easily be converted to effect niitchicf—to make a job ; he did not mean to use the word in an inleidious sense. But it must be the Base, so long as these fundscontinued to be uncon traded by Parliament the suspicion would be kept alive, that means were in existence of supporting a bad influence in that House. If, indeed, these pen sions were to be granted to Earl St. Vincent, to the relations of Lord Nelson, or those of Lord Hutchin son, the Minister would not have hesitated to come down and ask the consent of Parliament, because he knew full well that the proposition would be met with unanimous approbation. But it struck them very properly, that the same approbation would not be extended to a proposal of pensions to those who neither fought in Egypt, nor yet at Trafalgar, and who, in short, could boast no other claim to their consideration than being favourites of their Sove reign. It was by no means self-evi,lent that any of .those Gentlemen—for instance the Right Honourable Gentleman (a Scotch pensioner) opposite, or any other of the numerous pensioners that be could name— Lord Grenville for instance—it was very convenient, by the bye, that he could name two pensioners con fleeted with different sides of the House ; but it was by no means self-evident that any of these Gentle men would have obtained their pensions with any thing like the unanimity that could be expected in the case of Lord St. Vincent. But that there might be an abuse in the management of these revenues, he ,should shew, by citing the case of Sir Home Pop ' ham. He would take the circumstances of this gal lant Officer's history from himself. At the end of a long war, when 3 continued peace was apprehend ed by most of the military functionaries of that time, this gallant Officer, disdaining a life of inglo -1 ions quiet—anxious also to seek the haunts of his former exploits--impatient of that repose to which he was unaccustomed, and burning to augment the glary which he had so often acquired on the watery element—giving way to all these ennobling emotions, he engaged in transactions for smuggling—(Loud laughing).—Thus it was with the world—there were various pursuits by various paths. One man sought glory in the field, and found it in death—another sought it in smuggling, and found it in capture— (Much laughing).— Having invested his capital in a consignment, he embarked on a voyage to the West Indies, taking upon him the name and character of his purser. He there fell in with a Captain Robin son, afterwards Admiral Robinson, who was quite as anxious for the good of country as the gallant Officer, though not quite so disposed to engage in smuggling transactions. The Captain, however, seized upon the gallant contrabandist—the vessel was condemned and became a droit of die Crown. nstead, however, of,the proceeds, or any portion of them being given to the Captain, £2.5,000 were made ever to comfort the gallant Officer who engaged in smuggling for the good of his country ! But it was a question indeed, whether or not, Sir Home had smuggled homewards also ?—(Laughing).—As the man oho was foremost in battle, was generally dis tinguished fur the cultivation of the domestic virtues, so did the gallant smuggler unite the character of the hero and the man of sentiment. " GOD forbid," said be, " that I who am so forward in battle, should ever be wanting in •my duty to ray family. No, I will leave the ship, and join my wife and family on the shore." In fact, he left the Etrusco to join his wife in a small boat, but by an odd accident the boat, the endearing little boat, " which sped the soft intercourse" between them, was observed ‘ci go back and forward during the night between the shore and the ship—(Much latighler). It form/ out, however, that Sir Home did not own the cargo; and the ves sel and cargo belonged to Messrs. Charnock, of Ostend. Now the gilt to Sir Home might be right or wrong, but this was certain, that it was given secretly, and out of the Droits, without the consent of the House. The Hon. Member then proceeded to argue, that the Droits ought not to continue, on the ground that they furnished a temptation to the Government of this country to engage in war, with out the usual Proclamation—(Hear, hear, hear). — On those funds ought to be written, in indelible, characters (lie feared it was already written in cha racters of blood on the pages of our history), " These funds are the purchase-money of the honour, the rood faith, the pure arid unsullied good name of •:agland f'— ( Hear, hear!)—lf he wanted a proof that they were so, he had only to refer to the Dutch war in the time of Charles 11. That war was under taken for the purpose of seizing the Smyrna fleet— for which perfidious action PaosinexcE punished that Monarch, by overwhelming him and his Minis. tens in discomfiture and disgrace. But, to come to later times, what did they think of the Dutch— what of the Spanish prizes ?—( Hear, hear I J—Two million two hundred thousand pounds were acquired by attacking unarmed, defenceless men—(Hear, hear!)—men who knew of no reason for such a pro ceeding, except that they had dollars on board their ships. He vowed to GOD, he had never yet talked to a British Officer on the subject—he had never spoken of it to a gallant Officer with whom he had tht honour of being connected, and who had the mis fortune of taking a part in the transaction, but the events of that day were described as *sufficient to make an English seaman hang his head with shame —(Hear, hear !)—lt was, however, enough for his argument to shew, that a fund of this kind was a fer tile source of temptation. Charles 11. had yielded to that temptation, and other Monarchs might here after pursue the same course. The Hon. Gentleman next applied himself to the consideration of the Four and a half per Cent. West India Duties. It was a revenue that was just usurped by the Parliament from the Legislature of Barbadoes, and after having been treated in several reigns as among those reve nues of the Crown over which Parliament had con-, troul, it was, upon representation of the Authorities of I3arbadoes, surrendered by Queen Anne. It was somewhat curious, that after Queen Anne's acknow ledgment that it was not het's, that it belonged to the Colonies, and that Parliament had the controul of it, it should neither go to the use of the Colonies, nor fall under the inspection of Parliament, but make a dead stop, and become the property of the Crown. So it was, but the cause and history of the fact were buried is obscurity ; all that was known was, that it was the fund for obscure pensioners of all descrip rions—(lfear, hear).—He regretted that he had de tained the House so long : all that he begged of the House was, to consider that the arguments adduced by the other side of the House, when he last brought this motion forward, aid not now apply: it was now a new reign ; and if now, in opposition to the clear lite Ott's, question, in oppositiote ttl 'view of its principle, in the face of . isum'crous .precedents of mischievous abuse derived from Us-. tory—if now the House neglected the opportunity of wiping away a foul blot on the honour of the country, by .giving up a vile relic of feudal barbarism, useless for any natiodal purposes, and serving only as an oc casion of calumny to our carping rivals and bitter enemies—if now, when this mischief could be done away, without injury to the Crown and with benefit to the People, the House should suffer the opportu nity to be lost, it would, in fact, go the length of say ing, that these Droits ought to remain for ever a last ing anomaly in the Law and Constitution, a peren nial source of abuses, and a perpetual stigma on the character of the country !—(Lovd and repealed cheer ing for some minutes).—He should therefore move, " That it is expedient that the House do take into its consideration the Droits of Admiralty, the 4fr per Cent. Duties, and other funds, not usually deemed within the controul of Parliament, in order to make such provision respecting the same as shall be con- 1 sistent with the dignity of the Crown, with the inte rests of the People, and with the maintenance of the Constitution."—(The cheering was repeated from all parts of the House, when the Honourable and Learned Gentleman resumed his seat). Mr. CANNING rose immediately. He began by observing, that if any person had entered the House during the last few sentences of the Honourable and Learned Gentleman's speech, without knowing what had been his previous argument, such stranger would have been induced, from his high tone of indignant remonstrance, to imagine that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had been called upon by some pressing necessity to make a stand against some new assault of arbitrary power—some sudden encroachment of Ministerial rapacity. He saw no grounds whatever for a substantive motion on this subject, and the course adopted was altogether an unusual one at such a stage of the proceedings as the present. The in-' variable usage had been, dui ing the last four reigns, to settle the amount of the Civil List in the first pro ceedings of .every new Parliament, and he saw no reason why there should be now a departure from that rule. He perceived, however, the distinction which the Hon. Gentleman attempted to draw, but it could not be maintained by any argument either of expedienc y or constitutional legislation. The change which it was now sought to effect in the arrangement of the fund in question was quite unprecedented, and was but an ungracious return for the courtesy evinced by Gentlemen on his side of the House, who con- ceded a point at the beginning which it had net be fore been the practice to yield, as nothing was trans acted before the necessary provision was made for the maintenance of the splendour and dignity of the Crown. It aught to have been enough for the Hon. Gentleman and his friends that they heard from the Sovereign himself that no new burdens were to be imposed, and that he asked for nothing beyond the fulfilment of an engagement which had been made , after mature deliberation. In favour of that arrange ment an argument rni vitt justly be offered that could' not have been adduced with res t ect to any former one—namely, that after the practical experience of four years, it was found to answer satisfactorily all the ends proposed. But it was, he must insist, a most unseemly return for the generosity of the Sovereign to say, when nothing new was wanted there remained something which might be taken away. This, in deed, was what he could not have anticipated, even from such zealous advocates of economy as Honour able Gentlemen on the other side. Nor could he help thinking it hard that if a little excess wa s f oun d beyond the fixed allowance of the Sovereign, that a charge of wasteful extravagance should be made.— This, to say the least of it, might be termed a suspi cious economy, and was altogether unworthy the sanction of the Legislature. If the suns established was found sufficient, let it be adhered to ; but let it not be diminished merely because no addition was required to it—(Hear, hear, front the Ministerial Bench:). Let them not say to the Sovereign, " Wei find you are too well satisfied, but we shall see if there be not something which might be taken away from the funds at your disposaL" But the Honour.. able Gentleman proposed a suitable compensation to' the Crown ; yet the question for the House to consi der was, not whether the funds were to be abo lished, but whether it would be consonant with long established usage to make any change in their ar- Jangement ? The Honourable Gentleman, in support of his arguments for a change, had traced the his tory of these funds, and he (Mr. Canning) should follow him as briefly as the nature of the subject would admit. He should, therefore, begin with that fund .which was known by the term '44 per cent. The particulars respecting this fund, he found to be involved in much difficulty, and they had been so for a long time past. In the beginning of the reign of Queen Anne, a representation was made by cer tain persons connected with Barbadoes, which in duced the House to assent to the expenses of that Island being defrayed out of the 4i t per cents. and the condition of such a measure was, that quit rents and some other charges were to be done away. It was certainly true, that upon the receipt of an Ad dress, communicating the representation, Queen Anne said, she would give directions accordingly; but the revenue arising out of the 44 per cents. which had been secured in the Civil List of king William, had been taken from Queen Anne, and was not included in the Civil List of the Sovereigns for the four last reigns. If then the House had before them this usage of a revenue existing in the hands of the Crown which made no part of the Civil List, there was sufficient precedent of the Crown granting pensions out of the funds from which it proceeded. But could it be for' a moment denied, that the custom of granting such pensions was co-existent with the first mention of our Parliamentary history? A distinction, however, had been drawn between these and other funds by the Hon. Gentleman, who said, that when pensions were asked on the part of the Crown, there was no difficulty i• coming to Parliament and claiming them; but that these funds were for particular pur poses, which it was deemed prudent to conceal. It was, indeed, a most singular character for the funds in question, and one which must appear extraor dinary to the House, that they had as petitioners upon them two men, who, of all others that ever existed, were the. least disposed to elude st r i c t i n - i quirt'. These were the Earl of Chatbam and Ed mund Burke, names which, if the whole history of the country were examinsd, were not to be surpassed eterythiitt associated with public 'oiitue and griatness of soul. it was quite impossible for any set of Ministers tb be so mistaken as to expect con cealment from those Wen `upon any subject which concerned the public interest. What I would it he said that the Earl of Chit/lain was a 111:1 1 A 11- ia the course if his splendid career, would lather ;iave concealed 'facits than led to ter detection? Or would the same be said of Edmund fturke, who must live in the. respect and admiration of ages, himself too a professed Reformer? No;—such an assertion could never be made, and he should leave it to others to find contolation in defeat from at tempts to degrade departed virtue!—(lleetr, hear! tsaffiioer! cheering from the Ministerial lienelfes)..._ - _ Burke was new placed far beyond the teach of all human assaults; he had well earned what a grateful. country - had given him, and his autliority was the best that could be adduced, to shew that the Fund out of which he bad received a Pension was trot mit:: appropriated. If then no quesLitm should remain but with respect to the possibility of ahrise,ioalroucit as there were no States which weie stoditsus of ite: form, when the Pension List was lett entirely to the Crown, without any superintending contioul. To this he should give the best possible answer, namely; that in future all disbursements froiti those Funds, and the purposes to which they were applied, should every year be submitted to Parliament, not by a di.- tinct motion, but as a matter of course. It appeared to him very strange that the HoisourableGeatlemz-.. if he wished these Funds to he at all continued, had not explained how they were to be administered, un less by the Crown ? It was certainly cotopetent to Parliament to see that they weie properly applied : but so it was to Parliament to watch over any other of the prerogatives of the Crown. He now came to consider the details of those Funds, from which it would appear how little bad been expended but ftir 'the public service. In the course of the late rt.ign, the Funds had increased to £9.700,000, a..d a suns of £5,700,000 was paid to the captors of ships, ot:: of the Droits of the Admiralty. leaving a fund of £4,000,000, of which sum £2.700.000 itidl - evn Fait in aid ot the 4 1 ,4 per cents. and the remaining sum, after having defrayed the char ! ..ec at . the Royal Phy sicians, the expenses ot enter raining Foreign Aruba, sadors, and other incidental del:llan:is wonld become matter of new arrangement in future. He wished it to be distinctly understood, that it was iniende,i, in the course of evet y Session, to lay before the House an account of the sums issued from these funds, as well as a distinct statement of their applcatiim. lie saw no TCASon whates er that could induce ;Ile House to depart f--om that course, with regard to them. which was sanctioned by the authority ct the C. nstitution. The Hor.Gentlentan, while he ::,roosed a change, had not offered any just a:game:it in support of it ; and, according t,e his statement. it was rather to be assumed necessary f. om ir.ference than 0-actice.— The Honourable Gentleman said, that if a !elision was to be granted to a Nelson, a St. Vincei to or a Wellington, there could be no difficulty about it, as .dl must acknowledge it was well des..rved; but the case was quite different with regard to political ser vices, where, in his opinion, Pall'arnetitat interfe rence was necessat y before any pensi n was :mauled. Now it was for this very reason ..hat he (Mr. Can ning) thought the existir.g practice the most conso nant with the principles of the Constitution. He de sired rather to see these funds under the care of a protecting Monarchy, than at the disptY al of a De mocratic Assembly, who should dole out their lar gesses e, the spirit of faction or the influence of a successful canvass dictated. Faction must necessa rily sway the minds of such an Assembly, and there had been of late abundant experience of what might be done by a successful canvass (A langh). If on the one hand the Crown was the best judge of the appli cation of the sums to be laid out, so, on the other, it was the best trustee of the funds that remained. It must be perfectly known to the Honourable Gentle.. man himself, that the change he proposed was at variance with the best principles of our Conititution, though, if he could but succeed in getting the Crown to abandon those funds, he would not hesitate, for the sake of a rhetorical flourish, to witness all the mischief which would be consequent upon such a measure. But if no change of this nature was called for by necessity, and if, after the experience of more than sixty years, the honourable Gentleman could prove only one instance of abuse, the House would find that the sanction and practice of experience was decidedly against any alteration. As to the general argument, that those funds, being in the - hands of the Crown, offered a temptation to go to war, he thought it had no 'foundation whatever. He entreated the Honourable Gentleman to give not the least credit to the views or intentions of the Administration, but to look at them, even as he did, in the Minister of Charles Ile—let them do this, but let them, at the same time, take a view of human nature, and see if it was possible that any set of Ministers would place a twentieth part of the Droits of the Admiralty, as a set off against an unjust war, commenced only in disgraceful motives? It could not, he was convinced; be denied, that the practice, which had hitherto been followed, had in it something salutary, In the period during which £9,000,000 of droits had accumulated, if they once provoked war, they mote than three or four times saved ns from hostilities. As an instance of this fact, it was sufficient to men den the case of the Swedish Convoy, where restitu tion being made out of the funds in question, to the parties who felt aggrieved, war was thereby pre vented. If the funds had been, at the time, under parliamentary direction, the chances against any pa cific adjustment would have been multiplied tenfold, from the number of obstacles which must have been encountered. This country had invariably been ac. , tuated by motives of high and romantic honour, and she always sought rather to avoid war, than rush into it without a sufficient cause. It was right then, till all claims upon these funds Were • fairly adjusted, that they should be kept out at the view and also the official knowledge altogether of the Parliament.—. 'He believed in his conscience that they 'afforded the very best means of avoiding . war. But if they were placed-in the hands of Parliament, the consequence would be otherwise. Either war was just or unjust; and if unjust, the national honour was committed, and ought consequentlyto be vindicated, - while the prod posed change would tend to introduce various impel. diments. - There was no proof of practical abuse-4- none of any defects in the Constitution, or that those -on his side of the House were called upon to do