Star. — London, England, 1813-01-22 00:00:00

~_.-----,„ • , - a fii INBTA COAfPANI 'a tafARTER. 1 ..........- 'esterday a most numerous Meeting was held at. 'gyptian-Hall, blinsion-House, to take into (deration the Renewal of the East India Com- Charter.—The Loan MAYOR in the Chair. Lordship addressed the Meeting. I feel and highly gratified to see in this place so nu is and respectable a body of the first commer iaracters the Metropolis can boast, assembled in use of the City and Port of London, over which the honour to preside. We are met to csnsi. . the proper means of resisting the attempts are making to divert from the Metropolis the ' course of the Imports from India and China, i I humbly presume to think involve the corn lal interests of the City of London, and may affect the . prosperity of the country at large. 'all first propose, that the advertisement under we are now assembled be read. And then, ie Committee, who have done me • the honour me to this Chair, should bring forward the Ling object of the Meeting—that of preserving City and Port of London the Import Trade [mho and China. GERMAIN LAWS then read the advertisement. SMITH addressed the Chair. He deprecated jury which must be done to the vital interests cormnerce of this city, by the discontinuance of _impany's exclusive Charter. The East India Company owed its first existence to the exertions of a few individuals at the close of the 16th century.— It continued in the form of a Company till the pro tectorate of Oliver Cromwell, who dissolved it and opened the trade, induced by the clamours of the mercantile . adventurers of that day. It remained open from 1653 t 0.1657, during which► short period the influx of goods was so great and disproportioned to the demand for them, that it ruined those who were engaged in the trade, and it/was found neces- 1 sAry to restrict it once more to the India Company. This was the - first experiment. Another had been niade in the reign of King William, with the same c Insequences and the same ruin to those who had Leen most clamorous for it. The exclusive privi leges of the Company were then renewed, and had remained in their hands ever since, with honour to themselves, and equal advantage to the country at large. Such were at present the connections and establishments of the Company, that he believed, from the best calculations, more than 30,000 indivi duals in this city alone were directly employed by the Company. And if to these we add those who` indirectly and collaterally owed a subsistence to the same source. it would be found that not less than 100,000 persons would be thrown into poverty and distress, by granting the Petition of the Out-ports, from which they themselves could reap no probable advantage. The present distressed state of com merce had arisen from the shutting up . of the North ern ports of Europe, and from the interruption of our intercourse with America, and not irom the mo nopoly of the East India Trade. Mr. Smith then went into some other topics, to shew the impolicy of admitting an unrestrained into course with India, and concluded by expressing his concurrence with the sentiments of a popular writer, who had said, that Parliament, when theAuestion was regularly brought before them, would take a comprehensive and deliberate view of the subject in all its beatings, and would not suffer the Company to be deprived of its property, the Crown of its revenue, and the coon• try of its freedom. The first Resolution was then moved by Mr. SMITH. and seconded by Mr. BAssrrr, in a short speech. MTAVAITHMAN rose to speak, and having mounted the hustings, declared that he should not have offered himself to the notice of the meeting if any other indivi dual had appeared desirous of expressing his sentiments on a subject of so much intricacy, embracing such a wide range both of arguments and facts, and of such importance not only to the merchants of the city of London, but to the whole of the community. On such a question, he would rather have listened to the arguments of others better acquainted with the sub ject, in the hope of obtaining information. From the Advertisement in the Papers, he was at a loss, indeed, to know the object of the Meeting, as it ap peared from the wording that it was only to pass cer tain Resolutions. CHere Mr. Waithman was interrupted by Mr. Twining, jun. who desired that the Advertisement might be read; 'and the Lord Mayor having ex plained,] Mr. WAITHMAN said that he found he was borne out in the construction he had put upon the adver tisement, and he would insist that his Lordship bad no right to grant the Hall for the .purpose of any Meeting from which the Citizens of London were to be excluded, or in which they were not at liberty to express their free opinion.— (Great efitapprohation and ale: of Q ues ti on .) The Loan MAYOR wished Mr. Waitbtnan to state his opinions, but requested that he would do it as concisely, and with as few digressions as possible. Mr. WAITHMAN said, that the time for which he should occupy the attention of the Hall, would' de pend entirely an the number of interruptions he should meet with.--(Here there were repeated trice of p and hieus.) Mr. WArrinwAN declared he was not at all affect el by these marks of disapprobation, as they were only a proof that those who uttered them were afraid they could not answer his arguments.—( More hints, wick considerable applaute.) Mr. Twinino again came forward to request that the first Resolution should be read, which was done. Mr. WAITHMAN proceeded. He thought it rested with the Lord Mayor to call him to order, if he de ‘l,ited from it • but he hoped he would not suffer the order of the Meeting to be interrupted by any indi- °'‘ln4l who should feel disposed to dictate to the "h'eLing what they should do (..wi/aute.) Mr. Twi- T ''' l ,t did lint even know whether be meant to oppose cr second the Resolutions. Mr. Rowcuorx rose to order. —He conceived that thi3 we not the proper place or time to enter into tie wtneral question. That Mec:ing had been called, and it had assembled, to express the serious sense en tertained by the individuals composing it of the clan yt•r to their known immediate practical interests to 4pprehended from the removal of the India jai ,- p .rt trAcle from the port of London. They did not t , nrne the re e i t h er qualified to represent the general -:lhetal q uest i on ; e of th e country, nor prepared to discuss the ge but they met fo r a confined, deter mdit2.l but important purpose—that of laying before y e sti nd the ER ;hci conside. PanY' s I nd His ct‘e proud 2 inerOUS • eal cha the cau: I have der on I mt. that are o usual ct • which I • rnercial a s deeply • sha which 81. that the to call ,tll,l interest; to the ( from In M drip r.o Mr. me, the inju LLD, and con am, the Cor 'Sss• Pis. froip )wns, o St. I and rncr>4 Dm a *elms )em;- from th tat COM. Df the e fleet 'other ntine, , with d ;34 of ed west [ 4, the le sea t three A Tn V d d, crew from is the mita, s, and iesb vjo B rath er I t other ker 9 31 ‘. e Being 90+• ' I . goo. er !W. I Pdrlianunt their eirtiendeuhthie interests, letithees • 1 of London, in the etclusiye trade from India ; and it would be for Parliament to judge - hoer far those in terests should weigh in the scale of national policy, or were compatible with the welfare of the country. This was the express, avowed, and only practicable object of the patient Meeting, and from this obj they ought not to be diverted by considerations to tally foreign and irrelevant to it. There were other places. the India House, and the Common Council, where Gentlemen migh t state their objections. He said, that when the Mussulrnen of the East wished to indulge in the unclean luxury of eating pork, they generally satisfied their coascience by first persuad ing themselves that it was beef--{Here there war a general expression of diapprobatiost, and the application of this sigtik was lost by the iseterruption that followed.] Mr. Warrumae, at length, proceeded, and said, thAt his only w ish was, that - the City of London should not decide upon ex parte evidence. The first Resolution confounded the India and China trade together, and involved in the same imaginary ruin the civil, military, and commercial establishments of the East India Company. But it was evident that this sweeping conclusion was not warranted by facts. The Resolution also stated, that the Company had subsisted for a long time, and had many persons de pendent upon it. We were at first told that the number of persons so dependent was 18,000, which had insensibly swelled to 30,000 ; and this had again, by including various other descriptions of peo ple, mounted up to 100,000, directloor indirectly dependent on the India Company. But he could not conceive that the number Could be any thing like what was pretended, considering that the trade of India was only a million and a half annually ; and he was quite sure that it ought not to be so great, as the influence and patronage consequent upon it must be highly prejudicial to a free state. As to the dimi nution of the revenue, it was all nonsense. Let the King's Ministers look to that ; whatever other faults might be found with them, they were seldom defi cient in what related to the raising of the revenue. If they had shewn the same ability in making use of it when they had got it, as they had in getting it, they would more frequently have had his feeble support.— [Here there were cries of Question.] Mr. WAITHMAN observed, that these interruptions were by no means disagreeable.to him, as they were a relief to the effort of speaking ; and those who had never made the attempt could not be aware of the extreme difficulty Of making the human voice heard in a room of so large an extent as that in which they were assembled. The LORD MAYOR said, that he stood there in the eye not of the Corporation only, but in the eye of the City of London, and he should certainly wish to do justice to eve: y individual present; but he must again request that Mr. Waithman would confine himself strictly to the questioit. Mr. Warrtimat: resumed—He said he was about to state the teal quesion, which was, whether the supposed injury to be done to the East India Com pany and City of London, would not be more than compensated by the bene fi t of the general mercantile I interests of the country ? As to the exclusive trade to and from India, it appeared from authentic docu ments, that the Company had lost two millions by ' it in six years, and in one year only £396,000. We had been referred to the authority of Mr. Dundas ; but that Statesman had declared, that all general reasoning and general experience was a.;ainst the ex elusive charter of the Company ; but that tb::it's was a particular case, the Company had acquired a habit and that habit could not be safely. broken into. If Lord Melville had, however, lived to the present day, might he not have said to the India Company, your trade is a losing wade, your debts have in creased from seven to thirty one millions, your own ex perience is against you, and I am, therefore, willing to allow sonic farther facility to an open trade. IVith all the advantages of which the Company boasted, what had they to fear, if their statements were cor rect, from the efforts of individuals ? Another con sideration which ought to weigh on the Meeting was, the Americans carried on a trade to India to an ex tent half as great as that of the India Company ! Would it be desirable, therefore, that the trade should be forced into the hands of other nations, or that it should be carried on by British subjects ? On such a subject as the present, when they were called on to depart from the fundamental principles of commerce laid down by Adam Smith, and all other writers on political economy, he (Mr. W.) was obliged to con fess that he was rather staggered when he found that the Company were - carrying on a losing trade.— (Math of applawe and disapprobation.)—He begged the meeting not be imposed on by ag ieeicg to Reso lutions utterly unfounded in fact. [Here Mr. W. was interripted for some time, by long and reiterated marks of disapprobation on the part of some Members of the Meeting, as well as by the applause of chose who wished him to proceed.] The Loan Micron rose to order, but without effect. Mr. WAIMMAN declared that he was ready to stay there till tomorrow.—[The tumult continued for some time, but Mr. W. was at last suffered to pro ceed ] He did not at all object to the Company's stating their case to Parliament—but it behoved the Citizens of London, before they adopted such an exparte statement, to , examine into the truth of it.— How %you'd the monopoly which was now so stre- Amonsly supported, do when applied to the trade with America . , to that, with the West Indies ? It had been said that competition was dangerous—that the goods would not find an advantageous sale ; but was not this competition the main spring of all Conimerce ? It was true that the Company, notwithstanding their carrying on a losing trade, was enabled to pay a RA per cent. dividend. Their object was the patronage,: the disposal of the revenue of India ; they could well afford to lose their commerce. He (Mr. NV.) had an interest in the trade with India—he had been I.,ng concerned in a trade in the staple commodity of that country, in all pat is of this kingdom. But the ques tion was, wherter there would not be more trade in the city of London in the event of the breaking down the monopoly, than at present—(4tplauser.) The home trade could not be removed trom London. It was in London that the consumption of the goods imported trout India was the greatest—the fine piece goods in particular, being almost entirely consumed by the families of distinction in the Metropolis. The resolutions committed suicide, by stating that all the trade would be removed from London. This gla ring impossibility divested them of all the weight which might amorally be atischeit to them. It the I mama of the ay was iambs, with risk s 'could this be alledgienis an argument to prevent in vestionaion ? If the trade carried on by the Company Yietas a %Ming one, though carried on in the best postible • Amnia., what ground had they for fearing the par ticipation in that trade of individuals.? The question ibefore them required such extensive information con cerning the habits of the population of die East, and .various other subjeets, as could not be acquired with out discussion, and it was the duty of the Meeting, as citizens of London, to keep themselves own to con viction, and not to be led away by the senseless cla moor, that all the trade would be taken away from [the port of London. They were now told to look to ,their interests. Was any of. this sensibility mani fested, when the trade of the City of London was removed to the Isle of Dogs ? Did any of those ,who were now so loud, then come forward ?—(Loud ifpplauses.)—The zeal for the interests of die city lwas pushed to such an extent, that it had been en cleavoured to exclude discussion, to keep every -one down who had a tongue in his head s and, dared to use it ? The streets, too, had been placarded to this effect : 46 The same power which can deprive the East India, Company of its rights, may deprive the City of London of its charter." But there was a great difference between the cases : the Company had now no rights—its lease was out. What a cla mour had been raised against him (Mr. Waithman) because he had complained of the sale of seats in the House of Commons, and some other little things.— {Continued marl : of di sapprobation, mixed with Meers.):— His wish was to persuade them to suffer the subject to undergo Parliamentary discussion. He knew he was on delicate ground, to touch on which would make some who were present wince —(Lead cries of question.)—[Mr. Rowtroft attempted to speak to or der, but was interrupted by loud hisses.—The Lc'id Mayor rose, and hoped the meeting would hear the Gentleman who spoke to order.—This speech was received with marks of approbation, but Mr. Row croft's attempts to he heard were again equally inef fectual.—Mr. Waithman attempted to be heard, and declared his determination to persist.—After Mr. Twining had made an attempt to be heard, without effect, the Lord Mayor rose and said, that he was sorry the meeting should separate, without hearing the Gentleman who was . before them. Mr. Waith man was then enabled to proCeed].—He should have been able to compress his matter in a great degree, but for the many and improper interruptions he had met with.—( Maris of dirajOrobation).—As they had heard many authorities in support of monopolies, he should now give them ene or two on the other side of the question, His first quotation was from Mr. W. Hastings, which declared, si that Commerce could then only flourish when it was equal and free." He would ask them whether—" Or off!"—weighed against such an authority ? Mr. Rowse, who bad been examined before the Committee of the House of Commons, had given it as his opinion, that the Company's monopoly should not be continued ; and Mr. Colebrook, than whom no man had better infor mation on the subject; was of the same opinion. He would now return to the subject he was on, when he was interrupted. The Company, it seemed to be, argued, could not with safety leave their cause to be decided by Parliament. He ( Mr. Waltham) had formerly been charged with endeavouring, by vilify: ing and traducing the Parliament, to subvert all our civil and religious establishments- He would now cast this aspersion back in the teeth of those who had' cast it. They were now afraid to rely on the virtui and wisdom of sue independent representatives of the people. It had been the lot of the city of London to have, in general, its representatives fighting against them.—( Cries of question).—The present was a com plicated question, to an impartial decision on which it was necessary to weigh many facts—to decide on many opposite arguments. Their representatives, however, had sturdily pledged themselves on it, while on former occasions, on any the most simple point of opinion, when they were desired to pledge themselve. to a line of conduct—to oppose the income tax, foe instance—they could not forsooth give any opinion without hearing the arguments on the subject-- (Hisms, with some aMlause).—Some worthy indivi duals said, that what was intended was to petition Parliament ; but it was one thing to state their feel ings, and another to state false facts, and to have all the weight, all the talents, all the eloquence of the City Members pledged to be exerted on their behalf. Let them consider the trembling apprehension of the Ministry at the very thoughts of such an opposition? —(Hisser .—He should not now detain them any longer— maths of disapprobation) ;—it was impossible to exhaust the subject—it was one on which he had read much, and on which he could not make up his mind ; but if it was not shewn that such a measure would injure the City—would affect the revenue—or have any other pernicious effects—he should be ob liged to determine, on the first principles of com merce, that this trade should be free. Mr. Waith man concluded by moving an amendment to the fol lowing effect : " 'nun this Meeting, duly impreised with te magnitude and importance of the proposition intended to be submitted to Parliament, relative to the Trade with India, deem it necessary to be fully acquainted wi:h the nature and extent of these pro positions, and in posseinion of every information, so as to enable them to form a fair and impartial judgment thereon, before they decide upon a subject of so difficult and complicated a nature, involving such varied interests, and embracing su many national considerations. At the same time they hold it to be their Impe rious duty to give the most watchful attention to all the pro ceedings relative thereto, and to use every-exertion towards maintaining their rights, and those of their fellow-citirens; so far as may be consistent with the great and permanent interests of the British Empire." This Amendment was seconded by Mr. WArru- MAN, jun. and several other Gentlemen. Previous to its being read from the Chair, Sir W. CURTIS stepped forward, and said, that when he heard such sarcastical observations made upon the representation of the City of London in Parliament, from the Honourable Gentleman who spoke so long and so irrelevantly to the question be fore them, he felt it his duty to present himself to the attention of the meeting, and to reprobate, in the strongest terms, such gross and unjust ridicule.-- They were met that day, not for the purpose at examining the trade to and from India in detail. but to come to a resolution to give every aid in their power towards supporting the rights and in terests of the City of London.—(Applawe.)—The question for consideration simply was, whether the City of London had not, for a long time, enjoyed the exclusive benefit of the Indian trade—and whe ther the continuance of that trade, in its present form. was essential to its future prosperity ? And the petition proposiod to be preluded Iglo o sotto I dictate tn Parliament what thei wet e to do,lbt humbly, ancklike gdbd subjects, to state - what their opinions were upon the topic; and an important one it was, which excited such general interest and 4tten tin at the present moment. Upon this question he would be glad to hear the opinion of any worthy Gen* timers who might think proper to utter his senti ments. With respect to the trade of the India Company, for his own part he thought it ought to,l be extended. It was not, however, his intention then to enter into his reasons fur this opinion, sati: , fled that when the matter came before Parliament, it would meet with that full, free, and fair discussi, n, which would give satisfaction to all parties. those benefits which were enjoyed by one part of the community, however, ought to be exwnded to all his Majesty's subjects, was a proposition which, in candour and liberality, he did tint think admitted of a doubt.—(Histes anti aftplause ) The amendment was then put from the Chair, and negatived bye considerable majority. the original resolution was then put and carried. The second Resolution was proposed by Sir Ro bert Wigrara ; the third by Mr. W. Johustone ; the fourth by Mr. Borrowdale ; the fifth by . Mr. Twin ing ; the sixth by Mr. Brown, who was of opinion, that the removal of the Import Trade from the Port of Lond In, would not alone be iujurioka to the Port of London, but to the City of London and all its in habitants. Mr. Davis, in proposing the seventh Resolution, said, he was considerably concerned in the Imp' , rt India Trade in the Port of London, and was satisfied that its extension to other ports, would not alone tend' to the destruction of those who were concerned in it, btu would materially interfere with the colonization orthe Indian territory. It was said, that none bur confidential men would be selected to go pet, and men who would leave their families behind them as' a guarantee for their return. This was, however, a circumstance, which, in his opinion, was not likely D happen, for those individuals would be the very pet sons who would remain in India, and in their room, a class of Indians would be brought home, who, by intermixing with our females, would spoil the old English bread.—[Loud laughter and hisses, with cries of shame ! arising, no doubt, from the number of dashing belles, who, at the moment, graced the music gallery in the Hall, and who seemed not a little affected by this bad compliment to their discri mination.]—These Resolutions were all carried in the affirmative. On moving the tenth Resolution, Me.MatitTlN took occasion to deny that the placards to which Mr. WAITHMAN had alluded, were issued by the Committee. He believed he might say, "au enemy bath done this." On the Resolution calling on the Representatives ofthe City in Parliament to support the Petition, Mr. Alderman Comae expressed his readiness to give every support in his power to the Petition. He I did not pretend to have a great d.. 1 of knowledge o the general question, as to the opening of the trade t India; but of this every one must be convinced, tha removing the import trade from the cit/ of London, must bear hard on the poor pei-sons employed oa the River, and at the water side. To prevent such sitt) occurrence, the present Petitions should have hid support. Sir JAMES &IMP/ said, viewing the present to be question of the very highest importance—one in which at least 100;000 citizens were directly orindirectly: concerned, who, if the measure now petitioned against were to be carried into effect, Would have their ownf prospects, and those of their famden, destroyed, 14 felt himself bound to support the Petitions which hack been read, and should, to the utmost df his power s ' contribute to the success of thsni, and of the other petitions of a similar nature► Mr. Alderman ATKINS declared, that his opinions continued the same they had been during the last year, when he was appointed Chairman of the Com mitt nominated to watch over the interests of the bodies connected with the Port of London. he could not now consistently continue Chairman that Committee, he was still equally alive to thi interests. He had since been placed in the cl,stini guished situation of being one of their Reptesenta. tives, an honour which he trusted had only tented tt render him more anxious to protect the rights of hit fellow-citizens. He did not think himself call:d out L in the present stage of the business, to answer any oi the observations which they had heard to-day. I r k would be more becoming their dignity, taikt lat should reserve himself for another time and place.—, He had never used an expression on the subject d the East India Company's Charter, which could a all go to shew that he bad prejudged the quettion.-. He had only begged of those who anticipated gm* advantages from an open trad.ts to be on their guard that their expectations were not disappointed. He was anxious to say this, observing that it had beet represented elsewhere, that the Members for the City had already committed themselves on this subject.— This he denied, and he wished that it should be st understood. It was but right that they should no unalterably have made up their nitnds on the sots ject, not for their own dignity alone, but for that of ' their constituents. He should take cue not to neglect their rights ; indeed, he would be wanting is grati i tulle if he did. Before he parted with any of chid privileges, he should be well satisfied that the min. try in genera! was largely beneficed by the sacrifice. Mr. Cuarstax having moved the thanks of chi Meeting to the Committee, Mr. ROWCROFT said a few words in explanation of the conduct of the Con►tnittee this day. It was not their intention to enter into elaborate discussions, but simply to agree to a Petition to Parliament, repre. seining their intereYts, their wishes, and their tears, accompanied by a conviction, as well as interested pet:* ple could be supposed capable of judging, that thef measure proposed would be highly injurious to them.; without producing corresponding advantages to the Out-ports. That the trade to India, by being laid open, might be extended, there could be no doubt ;1 but the question was, how that could be done with+ least danger 'That must depend on the decision of the two Houses of Parliament : and all that the pre sent Meeting asked of Parliament was, a due, anew. tire, and deliberate consideration of the subject.— Their decision, lie doubted not, wouli be this best that human fallibility was capable of. These wane tile motives by which the Committee had been actu 'red, and he trusted they were justified in the eyes of trie Meetings—Thanks were then voted to the Loiw Amity and the Meeting adjoarned. I