Star. — London, England, 1830-03-24 00:00:00

Mr. O'CONNELL rupporteci Nbe petition, and condemned the fee system. and the inconsistencies exestflig in the Courts of Law. The petition was ordered to be printed. Mr. HUM IC presented a petition from persons of the Jewish per suasion residing in the northern part of the metropolis, pray::/f: the repeal of their civil disabilities.—Laid on the table, and to be printed. Mr. HUME presented a petition from a person named John Sheham, of Londonderry, complaining of a wasteful expenditure of money by the corporation of that city, to the amount of 16,0001. of which they had received the loan from government for the purpose of improving the harbour, and praying for an inquiry. Sir 0. HILL said that, had the petition emanated from any res pectable set of persons, he should have felt it his duty to support the inquiry. It, however, came from an obscure individual—a total stranger in the place. and unsupported in his assertions by any one. He (Sir O. Hill) therefore considered it unnecessary to say more, than that the conduct of the corporation would bear the strictest in vestigation. The petition was then read. Mr. HUME said that, as the petition contained something like a criminal charge against the corporation, he would not move that it be printed until after he had had an opportunity of inquiring into the truth of the allegations. The petition was ordered to lie on the table. Mr. HUME then moved for a return of the amount of all sums of money advanced from the consolidated or other funds to the cor poration of Londonderry, with the dates of payment, from the year 1814, and the balance now due. Sir OEO. HILL seconded the motion, which was agreed to. THE ARMY. _ _ Mr. HU 1E moved for ireturn,ln continuance of former returns of the number of officers dismissed from the army, without court. martial, since the 14th of February 1827, specifying the number in each year. and their several ranks.—Order ed. Lord GRA NVILL E 34ID1ERS ET presented a petition from the inhabitants of Chepstow and 3lonmouth, against the hawkers and pedlars' licenses. INDIA. Sir JOHN LOWTHER p►eeented a petition from the inhabi. nant* of Carlisle, in favour of a free trade to India.—Ordered to be printed. Clio MIDIAL LAWS. Mr. DUODALE presented -- a petition from the magistrates, clergy, merchants, " bankers," manufacturers, and inhabitants of Birmingham, praying • revision of the criminal laws, and against the punishment of death for forgery. The Hon. Member observed that it gave him pleasure to see the " bankers" coming forward to join in this and similar petitions, as they had been represented as adverse to any alteration in the law for the crime of forgery. The petition au ordered to be printed. Mr. RAMSDRN, in the absence of the member for Yorkshire presented a petition from the inhabitants of Yorkshire, praying for reeenchment, is reduction in all public officers' salaries and passim, and ter a reduction of the taxes. Mr. CAVENDISH presented a petition from the farmers and inhabitants of Blythe, in Sussex, against the tax on malt.—Ordesed to be printed. Mr. 310NCIE presented a petition from a town in Ireland (the name of which we could not hear), praying that a parliament be held in Ireland once in three yearx—(A laugh.) Mr. lIONCIC presented a petition from sertain persons in the city of London, of the Jewish persuasion, for the removal of their civil disabilities. The hon. MEMBER presented a similar petition from a Roman Catholic Clergyman of Ireland, complaining of arts 23 and U Geo. 111. affecting the Jews in that country.--Laid on the table. IMIGRATION. The Marquis of CHANDOS prevented a petition from a hundred in Buckinghamshire, complaining of the existing distre►s amongst the working and lower orders of society, and praying that govern. ment would hold out proper encouragement to those classes to emi. grate to foreign colonies. Mr. WU...Hu T HORTON assured the noble marquis that be hoped to he able to bring on his motion on the subject of emigra tion, which stood for the 4th of May next, under circumstances of encouragement and support which might lead to the completion of the petitioners' wishes. If the house received his propositions on the subject of emigration favourably, he pledged himself to take the sense of the house on them, should he experience In any quarter an opposition he did not contemplate. Mr. PORTMAN thought it high time the government should come to some deci.lon as to the pert it ought now to take, and the mode it should point out for adoption by the country, relative to the prospect there might exist of relieving the poor.rates of this country by holding out inducements to the indigent to emigrate. Sir THOMAS FRE3IANTLE supported the prayer of the petition, and thought it highly improper that, when there was so fine a field for the exertion of industry in our colonies abroad, so many thousands of poor should be employed in breaking stones on the road-side. Mr. Secretary PEEL said he believed his right honourable friend had nearly matured all the preliminary of the system he meant to propose to parliament on tr u s l ubject of emigration—such as the pointing out the most desirable and healthful situations in North America, and the projected stations for provincial agents of emigration at the several outpons. As to the other question, whether parishes should be called on to impose rates in furtherance of the projected removal of the poor by emigration ; or, in other words, to forward the plan by enabling the landowners and overseers of the poor of each parish jointly to mortgage the poor -rates, to Assisi in getting the surplus population to emigrate : it was a question of some delicacy, and his majesty's government ought to be allowed to entertain an opinion for themselves upon a question of that nature. He, however, be lieved that every species of information that was desirable on such a subject had been collected with great cars by his right honour. able friend. H e s h ou ld not now prejudice the question_ by en. tering into the di s c uss i on , further than to my he was ratislia that no inquiry had been conducted more satisfactorily than that prose. cited by the Committee on the Poor Laws. If any professional person, well acquainted with the subject, would attempt to consoli. elate the laws on the subject of the poor, the matter would be, he imagined, much better managed than through the medium of the interference of his Majesty's 3linisten, and probably lead to more satisfactory results. Mr. RI DLET COLBORNE concurred in the propriety &some definitive arrangement of this difficult subject being attempted as speedily as possible. Col. WOOD believed the evils complained of arose in a great degree out of the mal.administration of the poor laws, more pant. cularly in the southern counties of England. The petition was read and laid on the table. CIVIL insasibiTtes OF THE JEWS. A lung conversetion wok place as to the propriety of postponing the motion of Mr. It. OR aNT, relative to the civil disabilities of Penes.* of tile Jewish persuasion, on the ground that a more impor. taut subject—namely, the adjourned debate, on the motion of Mr. Daveriemee, respecting the distress of the manufacturing and 44ncidettral cleans —also stood on the paper for this evening, end one in other must give place &r the sake of public convenience. In thee conversation llr. ESTCOURT, Mr. Secretary PEEL, Mr. R. Lease, the CulaeczbLoa of the EXCHEQUER, and Dr. Limn. teoTus: took pan, and it was agreed the motion should be pat. Potted to a day which the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would tit on prior to the Easter holydays. Amseired SOTH EKON presented a petition from the owners of lands in Nottinghamshire, and Mr.W. HARVEY from those of tolehrster, praying the interference of the legislature in removing dee caosee of the present distress. —Both writ otdered to be printed. atter a few words from Mr. Hume, Mr. O'Courittb, and Mr. DATIL bY, On the motion of Sir T. FREMANTLE, returns were ordered of the butter inputted irom Ireland, end butter and cheese imported fruit, foretell ports into England, during the last year. Sir '. BARING presented a petition from the owners of land in the neightsturhood or the borough of Chipping Wickham, corn. planting adisurrv4 generally in 'hat district. iIr.WE•TERN ' , resented a similar petition from the hundred 01 Meek thew, in the county of Norfolk. oti the motion of Mr. BERNARD. a return was ordered of the moneys paid to the officers and servant. of the Trinity House for a err i'riud. Lunt M -HP. TH brought up the report of the Committee on Nllrtlll/4, Road. —laid on the table. Mr. Di NIStrN presented a petition from the freeholder* of the comity et burley, praying for a further redumon of tazation, and t'.r Parliamentary reform. The Honourable Member observed that tie currency question was quite as important, under the pre sent circumstances of the country, as the Catholic question had fi r`"'' snti the sooner it was taken into consideration the better. lir recomin e nd e d a reduction of the assessed taxes, of the colonial riptiuliture, of th e dead weight, and of th e tax u p o n coals; and a those reductiaa were allowed he had no doubt that the spirit. "'trey, situ resource* of the country, would bear it triumphant ev.r veer), difficulty. Mr PA LEM ER bore testimony to the respectability of the peti t,, ' abet concurred a concurred with hi s 110111. colleague in thinkin g t h a t re u mTheime might go, and o ug h t to go, still further. petition was onitral to lie on the table. Mr. C. PALLMEIt presented a petition from the labourers of D.tr tu bib* 1 51 , 11, in the county of Surrey, complaining of the extent of the public e xpenditure.—Orderrd to lie on the, table. Sir H. PARNELL 1140Vld fur an account of all moneys expended, doting the last five year*, upon the dainties of the united kingdom, and their respixiire establishments —Ordered. Sir M. 1.. RIDLEY patented a petition from the churchwardens userseens of Newcastle upon Tyne, respol a ilthe rating of WWII for th e p oor rate to s. Ordered lie as the Mr. CARTEL: pre.ented a pennon from the borough of Rye, of an undue election. Ora:root° Be on the table. WAltill/hIC/N pee•ented a pendia from the physicians and surgeons of the town of Sheffield, coneaniag the supply of eaw tomical subjects. Mr. MA ItSti %LL supported the payer of the petition, and hoped that the prejudices at present entertained would not long be op to to a satisfactory arrongement. The petition was ordered to lie on the table. Dirt R. GRANT fired his nodos relative to the disabilities under which persons of the Jewish passed= laboured at tee present day for Monday the sth of April. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER hoped that, as he had given up the precedent:eon that day to Mahon. friend, the house would not think It unreasonable if the government availed them selves of the Wednesday following. Lord NUOENT presented a petition from Mr. Thomas Wilson, architect, praying the consideration of the house to a plan for the erection of a cemetery in the metropolia.--Ordered to lie on the table. Lord P. L. GOWER *abed leave to bring in a bill to eons*. colidste the several acts repealing the bounties on fisheries. The order of the day for resuming the adjourned debates on the distress of the country having been read, Mr. HUSRISSON said that, before the house proceeded to the order of the day, he wished to allude to a subject which affected his own character, and in some degree the character of the house. He was aware that the greatest exertion was made by the public press to give the speeches which took place in that house to the pub. lie, and he believed that the task was performed Industriously and honestly. He was aware also of the inconvenience under which it was often performed, and particularly in crowded houses, and upon late debates. In the debate which took place on the subject of Por tugal, he had compared the oppressor of Portupl with our own Richard 111. and stated that if a struggle should arise between his party and that of the rhtful Queen, he hoped fee the sake of high lineage and royal bloo d, that he would disport one of the charges against him by closing his life with an act of courage. This ob. serration was to the effect he had just stated, but in a paper of the following day he was made to state in one sentenee—undesignedly, he was sure—that he wished Don Miguel might dies death of vio lence. Had he seen the passage sooner, he would have called the attention of the house •gt it before, as it seemed to countenance and recommend what every Englishman would shrink from with horror, the crime of assassination. He had no motion to make upon the subject, nor any thing farther to do than to dunk the house for the attention with which they had heard him. STATE OF TUE COUNTRY. The order for resuming the adjourned debate was then reed. Mr. O'CONNELL sail be owed an apology to the house es one of those who had been instrumental in causing the debate to last fee another night. But he had a great apology to offer—it was, that he felt it a duty which he owed his constituents not to let the debate close without stating his opinion on the important subject before them. The Irish members constituted more than one-seventh of the house, and he must say that, with the exception of the honourable member for Louth, no Trish member had yet spoken. He therefore rose now to enforce upon their attention the necessity of so inquiry. Inquiry alone was sought—but rather than lose it as it was let out in the original proposition of the hon. member for Shaftesbury, he would vote for the amendment. He put it seriously to those gentlemen who opposed the motion, upon what ground it was that they refused inquiry ? Was it to be said that no sufficient case had been made out for h? Assuredly not. It was understood that there was distress deep and general in England ; this was admitted by all. In Scodand it was not denied but that very great distress prevailed, and in Ireland its existence was beyond the possibility of doubt. He had himself stated that in Dublin, Cork, and Random, there had been great distress ' • but since that he was sorry to say that he was obli ge d t o a dd the towns of Newry, Drogheda, and Kilkenny. In these plates there were hundreds and thousands reduced to a state of absolute starvation. The honourable and beamed Member for Louth (Mr. Leslie Foster) had taken upon himself to assert that the distress was but partial in Ireland ; but what were the sources from which he drew his information? The Receivers in the Court of Chancery, who, by the terms of their at)- , poiniment, were bound to collect the one Mtlf.year as soon as the , other became due---(hear). And this was the only evidence which he aired of the condition of the poo r in Ireland. He was aware it might be said that there was already a Committee i tt c t i l e nt upon the subject of Ireland up stairs. But that Committee d irected Its at. tention only to the means of relieving the absolute paupers of the country, but did not touch the condition of those whose distresses were, If possible, still greater—those who were ashamed to beg, and unable to obtain a living by labour. It was not of the number of the absolute mendicants in Ireland that he can. plained ; perhaps at other dates their number some as great as it is now ; but the reduced conditions of the middle classes, by whom the wants of the lower classes used to be &applied, was now the subject of complaint. In former years, when the manufacturers In that exotic commodity, silk, were in distress, 20001. or 20,0001. were collected amongst the gentry and shopkeepers of Dublin for their relief; but in the last year not mom than 3,0001. could be raised, and of that the Lord Lieutenant contributed 8001. from hie own purse. This was the worst feature in the pawl distress in Ireland. The people asked for inquiry into the causes of this distress; they had a right to demand it. It was the business of this House to afford relief, for our business could not be exclusively to Cote away the money of the people for sup. porting armies, but to make the people comfortable. The French Parliament were more considerate to their constituents. In the late Address which they presented to the King, and which did them great honour, they noticed the falling off in the revenue, and de ' clared their determination to inquire into the distress which it ne. eessarily evidenced. He was sure a body of English, Irish, and i Scotch Gentlemen would be as ready to relieve their country. men as the Members of the French Chamber. The Right Honourable Gentleman opposite (Mr. Goulburn) said that he had given relief to the amount of 3 600,0001. by the repeal of ! taxes. To him (Mr. O'Connell,) however, it wee a curious way of relieving people in a st a te of immedia te distress, that, if they chanced to live till October next, th e y would have beer more cheap. But what had the right honourable gentleman done for Ire- land ? Worse than nothing. Supposing that he had taken of 47,000!. in the way of the leather tax, had he not added 110,0001. in the duty on stamps, and 30,000/. or 40,0001. upon spirits ? this was giving relief with a vengeance. And this mode of relieving was toot the act of an Irish Psoliament. His (Mr. O'C.'a) country. men knew better than to blunder in this way, calling an human of taxation a relief, and telling us, when they wanted to lighten the load, that the best way was to make us carry double. (A laugh.) But this was not all. He had heard it said, even in this house, that Ireland had nut been sufficiently taxed. This he denied. If the rental of England had been made out as it ought to be, it would be found that Ireland paid too much taxes by contributing four millions. Let it be recollected that in addition to the taxes, there was a million spent in grand jury jobbing, tithes, churches, ote. besides the very large portion of its • income which was spent out of the country by absentees. The principal opposition to this motion had been made by the right honourable Secretary of state. That right bon. gentleman (Mr. Peel) had made an able and luminous speech. and never, to his recollection, had he beard • document more completely answered than that produced by the right hon. member foe Liverpool (Mr. Iluskisson), respecting savings' banks, had been. The right hon. gentleman's speech was alto ha mourous. He had no objection to this. It was well, though misery should prevail out of doors, that merriment reigned within; sad k was a consolation that, though there were starving artisans and a pauper population abroad, within these walls we had facetious privy counsellors and laughing legislators--(hear and laughter). The right honourable gentleman's principal grounds of opposition were, that the motion, if successful, would endanger the stabi lity of two principles, which he assumed to be fixed—namely, free trade and the cunency. But were these fixed ? (hear, hear) — or, if free trade was one of the causes of the present distress of the country, why should it not be inquired into as well as any other subject? He had no wish, he assured the house. to enter upon the unpopular topic of the currency ; but who could say that it was settled when we had one currency and one system of banking in England, another in Ireland, and another in Scotland ? Yet, with these several variations before our eyes, we' were to be told that the question of the current., was fixed. The very children in the streets would laugh at such a statement. He asserted that the al teration in the currency had been most prejudkal to Ireland. Since 1797, all the transactions there, between landlord and tenant, had been conducted upon the basis of a paper CRUM''' but the late return to a metallic currency in this country had al tered the relations and prices of every thing in that country. The hon, and learned gent then entered into a vindication of a much. abused class of men—the middle-men of Ireland—whose residence in the country counteracted the mischiefs of absenteeism, and contributed, by their giving employment to the labourers, to keep in circulation a great sum of money in the neighbourhood. These were the men, too, who composed the volunteers in Ireleml, which prevented effectually the introduction of French revolution ary principles into that country, and saved the institutions of this. The effect of the change of currency was plainly shown as regarded tithes. In :8-13 and 1824 tithe composition acts were passed, which were intended to give to the minister ooe.tenth, but by the al. terations in the currency since, he was now actually receiving me-fifth. He also contended that by government occasionally giving relief by an issue of paper, they conceded the principle that a change in the currency might not be injuriously felt. The hen. and horned member then proceeded to comment upon the at which had been advanced against the motion. He noticed that of a gallant officer opposite (Sir H. Vivian), which he stated to be that low wages were not an evil. He (Mr. O'C.) did not agree in this; but, if the thing worked uniformly and equally, th. re might be something in the argument. If be was informed that fleld.nimshalio and colonels of regiments gave up portions of their Isepe salaries, he must allow that it would not be very hard *Poo otoshootso to hare their email incomes alaridged. But, as the argument steed at ptesent, it seemed to be aimed only at the mechanic' and the pear, while the wealthy and the great wen- nottratitoti by it. Me (Mr O'C.) protested against this. The honourable member concluded by reiterating the several arguments which he hid advanced in fa vour of inquiry. Sir HUSSEY VIVIAN complained of being misunderstood by the hon. and learned gent. as to the import of his argoment. He never said a word about low wages 1--what he said was. that low wages were not abstractedly and necessarily an evil. With respect to what had been said of the army, he could assure the hoooutable and learnsd member for Clare that there was nobody in the public ,ey elet more willing to make sacrifice* in the public behalf. Mr. (Ya./NNELL explained—The gallant officer himself must see that low prices would necessarily lead to low wages—and it was in that way he had used his argument. Lord F. lA. GOWER said he had not intended to have spoken upon this subject, but from the observations which had fallen from the hon. member for Clare. No man denied the existence of dis tress in this country or in Ireland. But, with respect to Ireland, there was already a committee upon her condition sitting up stairs, of which the hoc, member was himself a member. He was not prepared to say that the punctual payment of rents was a prtof of prosperity ; on the contrary, to say the most of It, it was of very doubtful authority, especially as to the state of Ireland. With respect to the commercial parts of Ireland, he would ask if discounts and loans could not be easily bad by any man who had any property ? He would ask if there was any general stagnation in the state of property now to what it was only ten years ago. In 1820 he first visited Ireland, and the best asses ciations were connected with it. His real had not since abated ; he was now a salaried officer of the Crown ; but when he should tease to be so his services would be devoted to that country. There were no less than thirty.five steam vessels sailing from t h e p ort o f Dublin, seventeen of which sailed for Liverpool, and this could not be done for nothing. The number of passengers coming to Eng. land bad materially increased ; and there was a ba'ance of pauper ism in 'farina of Ireland to the amount of 21,000 persons. Imemal navigation hail also greatly improved in Ireland, and one conclusion he would draw and only one, from the few circumstances he had stated, was, do tot. disturb her by inquiries which can lead to no Let Ireland be allowed to exert her own great energies—let ' s i tt il e xL great measure which had so recently and so wisely passed work Ito own good ; and of that measure he would ray that it was the i moral panacea of Ireland. The great hopes from that measure was that British capital would flow into Ireland, and he had letters before him which convinced him the fact would have been so, if in 1824 the high hopes which had been excited had not been fruit tested by the administration of Lord Liverpool. The capital then remained in this country; but now, however, be had reason to know that there was every disposition to invest English capita in land in Ireland, and he hoped it would be effectually carried into effect.—(Hear )_lt; on the whole, inquiry was ve t , p ro p er l y re. stated as to the state of England, he considered it still more unne cessary for Ireland. Under these circumstances, he certainly felt himself bound to oppose the motion. Mr. BEAUMONT said he would recommend the ori ginal motion to be withdrawn. This was a question in. yawing a censure of his Majesty's ministers, to which he for one would not be a party. Minima, had shewn every disposition to do their duty conscientiously and sincerely, and he thanked them for it. He regretted, howeverphat more had not been done in the shape of a reduction of taxes. It was of no use to say that they would do more If they could, for th.tt could be no answer to the sufferings of the people. The remedy to be looked to was a simple one—a very great reduction of taxes. He would cut down all the establishments of the country to the lowest scale, and if distress still continued, he would then boldly say to the fund. holder-6 , Share with us the diminution of our means." Mr. W. PE Eli denied that there had been any assertion made on the part of the government that no distress existed. He thought the government ought not to act the part of alarmists, but to continue their good work of reducing the expenditure of the country and re lieving it from its burthena. He hoped never to see the day when the issue of one U. notes would be again permitted, and wished that the Chancellor of the Exchequer would add a million to his budget by a tax on those who spent their money abroad, awkwardly aping the vices and follies of foreigners, only to be laughed at, and then complained that the foreign policy of the government had yen. dried Englishmen unpopular on the continent. He thought that no man was justified in saying that there was a revolutionary spirit abroad in the country, and that nothing was so likely to sow dis loyalty and disaffection, where nothing but loyalty existed, as such assertions made in that house. He had every confidence in the re. sources of the country, and in the speedy return of its prosperity. Re should therefore vote against am inquiry which could do no good. Mr. BEAUMONT explained. Sir T. GOOCH raid he should vote against the Committee, be cause ha thought no good could come from it. He was grateful to the Government for what they had done in the remission of taxes, and he thought no prudent man would desire to see them remit any greater amount during the present year. They had, however, only taken one step in the good work, and he trusted they would redeem their pledge, and proceed in it until the country was relieved. He was of opinion that the taxes pressed unfairly upon the labouring deates, and did not sufficiently reach those who possessed the cont. forts and the luxuries of life. He should be &Towable to a modi fied Property Tax, which would relieve the lower classes and reach those who were be tter: able to bear the burthen. He opposed the appointment of a Committee, because he thought It a delusion and a humbug. The Marquis of BLANDFORD said that he could not refuse I his consent to a motion which had for its object an inquiry Into the &ore-saes of the country. He was unwilling that, by silence on such an occasion, he should be deemed insensible to those distresses. He was of opinion that the only proper remedy to be adopted, under I the present circumstances of the country, was to be found in a re. duetion of taxation to the'arnount of ten or twelve millions, mem ponied by a reduction of expense in all departments of the state.— He alto, for one, should consent to government imposing• tax upon capitaL If ministers did not adopt such • course the people had but little to hope from their representatives in that house. They had nothing to expect front the sympathies of the other house, and it should he their last and only expedient to assemble from one end of the country to the other ; and respectfully, but firmly, to present addnases to the throne, descriptive of the utter wherry to which they had been reduced, and which they could no lon ge r patiently endure. Mr. I.IENNA HD said that he believed the government had taken the only right view of the distresses of the counuy, and were in earnest in adopting the only remedy, which was an ionise. dime and an extensive reduction of taxes. He thought many other reduction a ought to take place in our expenditure He would not vote foe the motion because he would not lend himself tea delusion. General 0 ISCOYNE admitted that there was no distress in Li. vespool, but said that in the country round it, the distress was as great as in any part of the kingdom. The reason why the labouring population of Liverpool were not distressed was, that they were all employed at the present moment upon the public works there ring on. The proprietors of the Liverpool and Manchester Railway could scarcely find labourers to carry uo their work. It was, there. fore, mast fallacious to infer what the state of the whole country was from the state of a portion of it, so accidentally employed. The very remission of taxes which the Government bad announced was a proof of the tottensive character of the distress. He thought the metaphor 4.64 doctors did not apply so well to the case u an other. He should say that instead of a consultation of doctors, it was mere She the case of a jury empanelled to inquire whether the medicine administered by his Right Hon. Colleague and the Right Honourable Secretary of State, had not caused the death of the pa tient. He would ask what was to be done with the Petitions of the people, now upon the table, if they were mat inquired into? Unless the government took them into their consideration, hereafter i the people would have no hope, and it would be useless foe them to approach that house again. The time must come wheel gentlemen would have to answer for the votes of that night, and sure he was that those votes would be well remembered from one cad of the country to the other. As long as he had a seat in that house he would never be found to vote apinst inquiry into the distress of the people. Sir F. BURDETT said that the petitions of the people had been insuldngly, as he thought., subverted by ktters • written individuals, and produced from the pockets of members of that hottest. The Teal pith of the question was, whether or not high prices could be maintained. Those who asserted that they could not, had failed to make out that proposition. He believed that they could not do so. The honourable baronet, the mem. ber for Suffolk, notwithstanding his refusal now to vote far an inquiry by that house, which he described as a humbug upon the people did, in the year 1821, propose a resolution of the same et:Ratter, and almost in the same words, when the agri. cultural classes alone were distressed, and that resolution was adopted by the house. Not only was the resolution adopted, but it was followed by an Wire of one.pound notes, and by a revival or prosperity throughout the country. The honourable baronet reviewed the contractions of • the currency at different periods, and said they had uniformly produced the greatest distress and suffering to the country. Yet, in spite of Ueda ex perience, the right honourable gentleman hud forced upon them his golJen idol, which, it seemed, ail. the eouutry were to fall down and worship. He thought, however, that they should be mole besotted than the Israelites, when they set up the calf in Horeb, if they suffered their reason and common sense to be cheated by words without meaning, such as " fictitious happiness" and " dirty rap." He should be very glad to be restored to the Seri. dome happiness which the country possessed is the years 1812,1813, and 1814, up to the very end of the poslipee expensive war in (ditch the country was last engaged. It ww to talk of taxation having tiny thing to do with the ehoese which the matey had undergone since that peeled. Whets she ooppottol so toomosoo expenditure, and west on itteressing bet wealth Is se esesempled degree. He could not agree with his noble Need, the mombee fee Northarpron that these were times as that this was a soak Ili which diet msgls; to refuse to lima PS the prim et the tellies I people, fet fear of their votes heists coasteued into a censure apes minima. He saw nothing that was to mike him so sender of ca. oaring the givrernmens when he heard a prime minister convict him self of mob a disacqoaintanoe with the oonwnereial concerns et the moire se to me. that with 111.00.01101. of gold circulation tithe Maid be as great an amount of circulating medium in the came; as when the circulation was all carried on In paper. These were not times in which they . could a ff ord to be so scrupulously alive I keep ing any set drool in their places, and he confessed that other hear ing such a statement as that to which he had alluded, his alarms ' went entirely the other way. He was rather inclined so adopt the sentiments of Lord Chatham, when, upon seeing a list of the (1(.- 1 penile appointed at the breaking out tithe French war, he olvativetk • I " I don't know what it may do with the enemy, but it makes me tremble." He could act upoa not inch feelings ss those which had been expressed by his noble Mend. They were arrived at the point when the salus impull, the supremo Ira, ought to come into play, and he could be guided by no other considerations in disposing of such a question as that now before them. He hoped they were not to be so fooled nut of their mama and comnion sense by empty words as to be afraid Of being called chests and rogues foe wishing to pay a debt in the same money in which it was con tracted. He was sanctioned in this by the highest law authority in the country; by an authority in matters of law and equity. which no man in the kingdom , be he layman or of the law. would call in queetiolt—he meant the opinion of Lord Eldon. The right him. eceretort _hod declared. in his speech on Friel iy night, that it was the settled - policy of the government that the landed interest must remain permanently depressed. (6 , No," from Mr Peel.) That was what the right hon. gentleman's argument declared. Mr. Secretary PE t.L—s• I said no such thing. I did not." Sir F. BURDETT understood the Right Hoa. Gentleman to say that the Landed Interest must no more look for war prices. and he (Sir F. Burdett) contended that wilhout high priers it was im. possible out that the Larded Interest must remain di-pressed. lie called upon the la-cled Gentlemen to remember th a. and would say to them in the language of a beautiful poet-.- `• Are we, compelled by fate's unjust decree, No more our homes and pleasant fields to sea? Or shall we mount again our rural throne, And rule again the kingdom once our owt ? He woold maintain that the land was the root from which all the other interests sprang, and that without a prosperous landed interest it was id's.: to 'elk of other interests being successful. He believed that all the interests of the country would still prosper and flourish tf the right hon. gentleman were not to cram his gold down their throats whether they would or no. They did nut want gold. Gold was all the evil ; yet the house had chosen it as Midas did, and, like the choice of Midas, their choice had been followed by .the punishment of starvation ; and for his part be did not see why they should not be crowned in the same way—Atiriefflas pis soil habit. He maintained that high prices might just as well be had in time of pace as in time of war ; and that high prices formed the only remedy for the distress of the country. The dis trait was owing to two distinct causes, which affected the highest and the lowest. That being so. be could not be satisfied with the mode of inquiry proposed. lie thought, however, that either of the motions might be adopted. His hope was that Hon. :isemliers would not decide that distress was beyond the controul of Pu liament, thereby adding despair to the misery of the people. Mr. Secretary PEEL thought it necessary to notice a most ex. tranrdinary misconception on the part of the hon. baronet, of what had fallen from him the other night. The hon. baronet had paid that he ( Mr. Peel) had avowed that it was part of his policy to de. press the landed interest. All who had heard him with attention must be convinced be said no such thing. He said a great deal of bad land had been !nought into cultivation, and that he could not avoid feeling for the individuals who were endeavouring to keep up their respectability and station in society by the produce of such lands. Sir F. BURDETT said he did not mean to impute to the right hon. gentleman any intent to recommend such a system of policy. His meaning was, that the policy and principles the right hon. gen. denten was determined to putsue would materially lead to it. 3lr. PEEL observed, that he had merely expressed his regret that the cultivators of bad soil should suffer. Sir. F. GOOCH also complained that the hon. baronet had mis represented what he said. Sir F. BURDETT explained. Mr F. LEWIS deprecated the argument of the honourable bare. with respect to the eurrettee. When the hon. baronet praised the Bank Restriction Act, he was opposing the best interests of the country. The doctrines of Mr. Hume and Mr. Tooke had been perverted. If the hon. baronet looked to restriction of gold currency as a panacea, and expected the landed interest to be supported at the expense of other interests, he would be disappointed in his ex pectation. The hon. ban, must know that the bank restriction met. sure had failed from its own weakness. The currency was restored to Its power in 1816. and it created a convulsion of distress never before known. Tite Honourable Baronet said they might have what prices they liked. They must leave real prices. They might have nominal prices, but the value of products would remain the same. If an equitable adjustment was to be expected, would any Gentle. man say what the standard was to bey The dream in the heads of wandering speculators was that they were to have a fluctuating on. certain currency. The doctrines of the Hon. Baronet upon that subject were not founded upon a system of plain practicable dealing with the country. Mr. STANLEY opposed the motions for inquiry In committee, on the ground that It would produce no beneficial effect It a ape cific proposition on the currency or any other question were sub. mined, he would meet it fairly. Mr. WESTERN said there could be no doubt that distress per. vaded the country, and the question was, whether the petitions of the people ought to be thrown under the table. He contended that they ought so enquire into the general distress. It they 6Y not it would be an lough to the country. There would be dissatisfaction from one end of the country to ;be other. During the period which has elapsed since 1816, there had been a constant depreciation of all the products of industry, occasioned by a change in the monetary system. Colonel WILSON opposed the motion. After the proposed inquiry he thought they would fled themselves just where they began. What were they to inquire into? Was it the dieter* of the country ? That had been sufficiently ascertained. Ile was much better satisfied with his Majesty's Government than he had been. If any one had told him, a few evenings since, that Ministers would lake of five millions of taxes, be would not have believed bi.n. It had been insinuated that he was sneaking to Ministers. He warted neither place nor pension. He would have none of the loaves and Hetes. (A laugh.) His Majesty's Ministers should have his support whilst their efforts were for the relief of the country. If he had been Prime minister—(a laugh,) he would have taken off the assessed taxes and established awe regulated property tax. That was his idea, but still he believed his majesty's ministers had done all they could. But for the good done by his majesty's ministers they might have sat debating in that house, and they would have been just our of the mud into the mire.. --(a laugh) The pzoof of the pudding was is the eating of it. That was the fact.—(Cries of " Question.") 3lr ' D. W. HARVEY said he should not trespass now on the time of the house, the subject having been exhausted after so many nights' debate. All the petitions nearly were unanimous as to the mode of relief they prayed for, and that was a repeal of taxes , and the substitution in some cases of others less buithensonse that; the resat. He was astonished to hear the member for Westminster. the advocate atilt rights of the people, assert that taxation was if little import, sod that the only effectual relief would be high ices. He could easily overthrow the reasoning of the hon. baronet Sir F. Saida° ; but at that late hour he should not trespass further on their attention._ Mr.TRANT rose amidst loud ales of " question" and "spoke." If he was not heard he should that instant propose an adjournment. He was pledged to a large body of gentlemen in the City yesterd a y to "arm his opinion and their* on the subject. (Cries of" ques tion.' ) He would tell the noble lord that he was not to be put down. (Cries of" name.") The opinion of these gentlemen was that distress did exist to an mormous amount in the counny, and they wished to have an opportunity of proving the fact. The Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Iluskis,on) in a letter written by hint in 1814, on the corn laws spoke of the evils th a t would arise ream a low price of agricultural produce. He wculd recommend to that Right Hon. Gentleman to return to these Pound doctrines which be furmerly maintained. Mr. lIONCK said the only remedy wee the reduction of expen diture and the consequent reduction of taxes. To be able to com pete with foreign manufacturers they must repeal the unnatural c ten law He must oppose Ibis Inquiry, as he felt satisfied that it would end in nothing. Mr. BENETT said he should vote for inquiry, but mot from any hostile feeling to ministers. Mr. Alderman THOMPSON said he was a member of the body alluded .4) by the member for Dover ( %:r. Tram), and be must erter his pieta( against the idea that that committee attributed the dia. tress to the ;immures of the member fur Liverpool. lie must bow. ever admit that distrait; very generally prevailed. 1 hat was the ease in Leeds sad the neighbourhood, as he could state from private communications in contradiction to what fell from the honourable member (Mr. [reins). He denied that the manufacture of 'lron watt extended if late, and he knew minima were embarked In that trade saprodiatively fur the last Lay year.. It was no rout of prosperity that the nuinufieturet went' on pndueing. He felt quite coneissed that the new systems of banking supsosted would utterly fail. The evil ma, that bankers had sow no easedetee in while beeriest% had willeleat ctiaddetwe I. batiketv.' He' leillittrik thee was /ISMS NN, is clotted', sew, diat it eteit the eseleety wins thaw 40,11,11,0111 d. desightlhat the mkt fatal maxim the flow auM adapt, with a view wi Whetting the dimly* coots* hr So huts tkpansittee ou the entrag—(hear, hew; tub b ed with ••• ' • • 2 , • •