Star. — London, England, 1830-02-17 00:00:00

ask\ LNIPERIAL PA iILIAM ENT. 1401.'SE OF LORDS.-TUESDAY. Shortly %fur live o'clock their lordships met and adjourned, there being no public business before the house. IIiWSE OF COMMONS.—Tr.rsnAy. At too r •I'dock preci.4ely the SPEAKER took the Chair. Mr. A I.lerroan WOOD brought up the Report of the New LlllllOll Budge Committee, anti also the Report on the Fleet-market Itnprosemcnt Bill. •:1 r. Alderman WOOD presented a petition front tne inhabitants f +be Ward of Cripplcgate Within, complaining of the Tithe :•,* stem and heavy Taxation, and also praying for the,epeal of the Walt nut y ._Ordered to.be printed. COAL TIIADE. Mr. Alderman WOOD gave notice that he would move, on the 2:fl inst. fora Select Committee to inquire into the state of the Coal Trade of the Port of London, the prices of coals at the pit, and the riwrges at the port of shipment. DISTRESS OF THE COUNTII V. Lord ALTHORPE presented a petition from the inhabitants of Daventry, in Northamptonshire, complaining of general distress, and prAving a reduction of taxes, &c. Mr. ",*. R. CARTWRIGHT spoke in support of the petition. --Order,.a to be printed. Lord A LTIIORPE presented a similar petition from the town rf Northampton, and also one from the bailiff, burgesses, and in. habitants of Daventrv, praying the like relief —Ordcrsd to be printed. Mr. T. FR N' presented three petitions from Wathington, and two other places in Oxfordshire, complaining of the general dis. tressed state of the country.—Ordered to be printed. SIERRA LEONE. Mr. HUIITE gave notice that on the Bth of March next he would bring forward a motion for the abolition of the British Settlement at Sierra Leone. RECEIVER-GENERAL Or TAXES. Mr. HUME gave notice that on the 10th of March he would move that the office of Receiver-General of Taxes should be abolished, and the duties of that of transferred to the Commis sioners of Excise. Mr. HUME also gave notice that on the 16th of March he would move for a select committee to inquire into the circumstances at. tending the' renewal of :leases of crown lands at Withirran, 411(1 other places in the county of Norfolk. THE LORD LIEUTENANCY OF IRELAND. Mr. BUMF--I also wish to give notice that on Tuesday, the 23d of March, I intend to move for the abolishment of the office of Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland. (Loud laughter ) On the motion of Mr. HUME, it wss etch:red that the names of Mr. O'Connell and Mr. Edward Cost should be added to the list of the committee sitting to inquire into the laws respecting select vestries. COMMITMENTS BY THE COMMISSIONERS OF BANKRUFTSj Mr. BUM} moved for a return of the number of individuals committed by the commi‘sionctit of bankrupts to the prisons of New gate, Whitectoss-street, the Fleet, and King's Bench, from the 15th July, 1b26, to the present time, with the dates of their discharge.— Lord J. STUART presented a petition from Glamorgan, com plaining of the distressed state of the country. Mr. SLANEY withdrew his notice of motion respecting di* poor-rates, which stood for the 4th, to the 9th of March. LEATHER TAX. hlv. G. 111001 e.; presented a petition from the Tanners of Dub. tin, complaining of the oppression of the Leather 1 ax.—Ordered to be printed. Sir JAMES GRADA3I presented a petition from the Lead Miners of Alston, in the county of Cumberland, complaining of the great distress prevailing amongst the inhabitants of that part of the uounty. Lord LOW ill ER and Lord POWLETT spoke in support of the petition.—Ordered to be printed. LAW OW LIBEL. Mr. It'CONNELL renewed his dropped notice of motion for an alteration in the Law declaring Truth to be a Libel. Mr. J. BENETT presented a petition from Wiltshire, com plaining of the 42tieral distress of the country. Mr. BEN t; rr presented a petition horn the hundred of Hindon, and other places in Wiltshire, complaining of distress, and praying for a reduction of expenditure and salaries. The hon. r•.tember stated it to be within his own knowledge that numbers of persons were out of employment, and even those who found employment were not adequately paid. tome were only receiving 3s. a week.— The Act of 1819, by which the currency had been restored, was the eeusc of the distress. lie had never voted for the repeal of thecae" and would not, but the consequences of the act must be a reduction of taxation. Mr. PORTMAN supported the prayer of the petition. He had head the ministers of the Crown last night again and again deny. log the distresses of the country. He would not for a single mo ment allow it to be supposed that he, tht member for a county, eat mute, and did not assert that distress existed. The honourable member for Wareham, whom he saw opposite, -was capable of in forming the Government upon the subject of the di.tresa. It was necessary that the Governrneat should meet the distress. They Mould remodel the taxation. He believed they might take off the OMR tax. That would be the greatest relief to his (Mr. Portman's) tlenstitucnts. They might also propose some tax on absentees, par ticularly the absentees of Ireland. The county of Wilts suffered Materially from the large Imports made by Irish farmers, who could undersell us in the market. Those constituents who more particu larly supported him did not intend to offer their petition until mi. obters had made their expose. It was imperative on them to do something, and that quickly. The petition was brought up, and laid on the table. Sir JOHN WROTTI.SLIW gave notice that on Thursday next he should present a petition from Bilston, Staffordshire, against the practice of paying labourers by goods. Sir CHARLES WETHERELL gave notice that on the 3d March he should move for " copies of the ex officio informations retently filed against certain public journals ; fo r th e m i nutes o f the judge before whom they were tried • the names of the Jurymen; en exact minute of the words in wh ich each jury pronounced its verdict • and also an exact minute of the terms in whi c h one o f the juries expressed its recommendation 'to mercy." Mr. DI NISON presented &petition from Farnham, complaining d distress. - Colonel SIBTHORP gave notice that on the 3d of March, be Iliould move for a repeal of the standing orders of the house for the inclusion of strangers, as fir as regarded the reporters of the house, 1 card that they shoul d afforded better accommodation. Mr. BROWNLOW presented a petition from Claigh, Queen's Minty, complaining of distress. The honourable member stated that the distress was intolerable in Ireland. Throughout the wide world there was not so much suffering as was to be found in Ireland. As to their homes, their food, or their clothing, no language could -soßerate the state of the distress. It had berm said that labourers is England were receiving 3s. ad. a week. He was sorry to hem that; but he begged to state that it was in evidence before the com mittee that the average amount of wages throughout Ireland did mot exceed 3d. a day. How was it that, with • fertile soil, so much Cahtmity was to be found throughout the land ? There was no con section between rich and poor. There was no obligation on the wt of the rich mad in Ireland to assist or provide for paupers. The petition he had to present prayed for the extension of the poor laws to Ireland. The petitioners particularly prayed that the 43d Queen Elie. might be applied to that country. He agreed with them in that part of their petition. Mr. BENETT observed that he had said that those who ob tained labour only received 3• a week, and that they had to work hard for that sum. The petition ;as laid on the table. Mr. MARSHALL presented a petition from Leeds against the renewal of the East India charter. The honourable member was not distinctly heard in the gallery. He said that the removal of tbe. restrictions of the East India trade had already produced the most beneficial effects. Dir. WHITMORE wished to know whether it was the inten tion of , ministers to give notice to the Court of Directors of the East India Company (as they were empowered to do) that in Apnl, at the expiration of two years, the Charter would expire. Viewing the question as it stood at this moment, he could not bring himself to believe that neutrality was seriously entertained by the govern ment. There seemed to be a disposition to compromise the ques tion. There ought to be entire freedom of trade--this was not only a boon to be asked, but it was • right to be challenged. He felt convinced that that right would not be conceded. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he did not know upon what it was the hon. georleman founded his belief that government was not acting with good faith. They were free to adopt what course might appear to them to be the beet. The notice was not required to be given undl Alai! IOC!. In the interval there might occur, during the e...sininadons, material. to quicken them in their decision. Sir GEORGE PHILIPS said that the committee ea been a , cause of muchkidettsy among the manufactuting districts Mr. WALLACE mid it was something pined that the first sa tins of the act was not to spew in an et • pert lotto way. One feet of this armours would be to relieve the patiently ofleelsnd fathe a ray peat grievance, and thus far kg highly approved of the alteoiwoot popped by the noble lord. There were, however, Imo paw ports of the Nil which he thought highly objectionable, the last section. This section he considered not only but most unjust,' foe It derived a men who had a bleu fent hinds. *property to those whom by anon be was bong to patelde fee. Thin, b e thought , called quits as loudly for amendment as the section adverted to by the noble lord. For his 'owi part, he wished to abstain from making any objections to the measure till the house went into a committee upon it. He must, however, express his best thanks to the noble lord for the magnani mity with which he had stated his opposition to a law for which the landlords of Ireland bad shown a very great fondness, anti he himself was not surprised that they should be partial to it. for it threw into their hands a power which many might be disposed to abuse. Mr. A. ItA%VSON said that this was not the proper time for the house to go into the details of this measure ; yet he must observe that the noble lord who had brought it forward justly entitled himself to the gratitude of Ireland. But, highly approving, as he did, of the views generally entertained by the noble lord, he still thought that it would he much better to get rid of this act altogether than to endeavour to amend it. The Union could never be complete, or the inters-ts of Ireland consolidated, till the statute Law of the on,. country was made the same as the Statute Law of the other. The only argument urged in favour of the Subletting Act was, that farms were divided for the purpose of increasing the number of free. holds, with a Slew to parliamentary patronage. That argot. matt, however, was now leg without the slightest foundation, for -10 s. freeholders no longer existed. Me. O'CONNELL enured the house that nothing should fall from hint %bleb should tend in the slightest degree to give this quzstion a party aspect. He viewed it entirely upon its merits, dis tinct from all party consideration.. He entertained a strong feeling that this act was to the last degree mischievous ; and he could state, upon the authority of a person who generally differed from him upon all subjects, that of the 7,000 individuals whom he had on a former night represented as faniishing in Dublin, many had been thus thrown upon the world by the operation of the subletting act. Several petitions had already been presented against it, and he was convinced that several more would he presented before the present session expired. He did not mean to oppose the measure of the nobll lord, who, though he had gone some way, had not yet gone far enough. He admitted that these was a principle in it, but then that principle ought to he embodied in a aew act. The only effect which this art produced in Ireland was to thin the population, and alter coatracts in favour of the rich, and to the prejudice of the poor. (Hear, hear.) The honourable and learned member then particularised various points which he described as imperfections in the act, stating, at the a.me time, that under it neither marriage set tlements, nor provision tor younger children, could he made. He would put it to the house whether it would not be better to repeal this statute altogether, and create another in its place ? It was a bad principle of legislation to make two acts., the one to amend the other. This act was far from ?cruising all that was ork;inally anti cipated from it. It tended to increase the retourccs of the rich, while it diminished the means of the poor. He was not one of those persons who thought the class of middlemen were injurious to a country like Ireland. On the contrary, he thought them of great benefit to it, for they served, in a great degree, to mitigate the se. verities of absenteeship, and they afforded to the poor man Pore. thing like a market for the produce of industry. Not only did this act increase the power of the rich while it injured ths poor, but It also gave rise to strife and litigation through every part "f the coun try. it the house would accept of hit humble services, he would most readily lend his aid towards framing a less objectionable measure. Mr. DOHERTY' thought it was much better to discuss the me rits of the measure clause by clause in the committee, than to go into them in the present stage of the proceedings. From the rape. rienee he had had of the proleseional ability of the hon. and learned gentleman who had just eat down, he should mart readily avail him. self of any suggestion he might favour him with; and if this were the commencement of the hon. and learned member's political life, he should be willing to believe his disavowal of this being regarded by him as a party question. But he (Mr. Doherty) could r.ot give the hon. a.id learned member all the credit he claimed for his dis. avowal, when he recollected the great agitation which the question had produced in Ireland, and that the hon. and learned member was no stranger to it. Ile admitted that this set had created some die. satisfaction, but certainly not to the extent reared .by the hon. and learned member. He himself was not at he time it was framed the legal ad; iser of the Chief Secretary for Ireland ; but he could mate of the learned nerson to whose place he had unworthily succeeded (the present Lord Plunket, as we understood,) that he was the but man living who would think of promoting the interests of the rich to the prejudice cf the poor. It would be recollected that the uct itself had first emanated from a committee 'if that house, and there fore must be presumed to have had the entire concurrence of the house. Upon that occasion, two very important questions had oc. cupied their attention.— namely, the Catholic question, and the ques tion as to the subletting of land in Ireland. (Hear, hear.). — The former of these questions had, happily fer the peace of the empire, been since settled. While the cpiniun of the house pre ' ponderated :n favour of concession to the Catholics, there was ne difference of opinion whatever with regard to the other question; foe all parties were agreed in thinking that the subletting of land was the most injurious to the best interests of Ireland. They felt that the system of creating middlemen ought not to be any longer Loma:mad, and that the subdivision of Lend tended equally to im poverish the landlord and the occupying tenant. Day after day complaints were made, both in that house and oat of it, respecting the wretched condition of the population of Ireland ; and, en the part of the landlords, erguments of this nature were urged :—" Well, but why blame us? IVe wish to raise men to the rank and condi tion they ought to hold in relation to us, but we cannot do so, for there is a defect in the law which prevents it." It was found that the system of subletting had beer. carded to a molt ruinous centre,. land that farms of 200 and 300 acres, which the landlords had left in a flourishing condition, were, in a very short time, overspread with a whole mass of paupers. Much as he thought of his noble friend's , talents, still he never thought that be could frame any measure which would be rendered perfect all at once; and, therefore, hs was open to any suggestion of improvement that might be offered. He con. tended that every man was at liberty to exercise a control over his own land, and to enter icto contracts, provided the pclicy of the state was nut against his doing so. As to the former condition of ' the peasants of Ireland, it was worse than that of beasts who browsed upon the land ; it was, therefore, high time that ions efforts should be made for ameliorating it. The psoecipal object of the landlords was, to raise up in the country, a chess of persons with whom they could hold intercourse ; end be utterly denied that this act de- I rerval the character it had received from certain individuals who described it as the act of "an exterminating aristocracy." With regard to the state of helmets, if he did not feel that he had already transgressed the limas which he had pteseeibed to himself, ' and trespassed too long upon the attention of the house, be 'ehould consider himself called upon by the part which he bad taken in the bill bet year, and by his official connexion with that vountry, Wheat his testimony io the distressed condition of the people. But, at the ' Dams thee, he was happy *.o be Mils to give it teethe remit namely of his own observation, but of the communicatioos which he had re.l ceived from men of intelligence in all parts of the oountry, that the settlement of the Catholic Question had dons more for Irclar:tl than the weeniest supporters of the measure coall have revicipeted. It had produced ail the g4ed, and none of the harm, whkh pas fore told. If the house would take the advice of the bon. member foe Clare--upon which he assured the honourable member heshould always find him (Mr. Doherty) ready to act, both in that house and elsewhere, whea:it was given without an appeal to the personal feelings, or passions or pr.:jut:las of men- -If they went on calmly and staolliy, keeping in 71ans the conditioners( the country, in order to its atnelloration, he was convinced that they would soon see Ireland make strides towards prosperity more rapidly than could be calculated. Tice good effects of the measure were already visible in the conduct and feelings of the upper classes of society ; and the whole Catholic hierarchy, who were last year in a state of discontent and dissatisfaction, were now in all quarters exhorting the people to peace, and tranquillity, and tem He trusted that the debates in that house weight partake of these attributes, and that nothing would pass +ere to eaasperate the country or any por tion of the people. (Cheen—amongst others ikon Mr. O'Connell.) In reply to is hon. and learned friend who cheered him, he would only observe that topics of exasperation were urged Dealer to the scene of action than the walls of that house. Lord ALTHOItPE gave his approbation to the prindpie of the measure, and he thought Mr. O'Connell had been improperly at tacked, for he had stated his objections to the bill in the most can. did and temperate manner. Sir H. PARNELL wished to express his obligations to the noble lord who had introduced this measure, which he was sure would be productive of the gramma benefit to Ireland. It was true there bad been petitions in great numbers against it, and such pe titions deserved the utmost possible attention ; but he believed that the complaints made by these petitioners were not against the prin. ciple of the bill, but against some particular clauses in it. It was supposed by some that the Subletting Act gave to the landlord the power of removing the temmt. This was a mistake; the Act pre vented too great a change of occupiers. The honourable and teemed member for Clare had made a mistake in regard to the cause of the poverty and distress of Ireland, if he imagined that the almost infinite subdivision of land did not contribute to pro duce that Sir F. B UIL D Tr said, that as to the fact stated by the hon• and learned member br Glare, that the Subl et tin g A ct had tended to produce a large poetise of she pauper population of Dublin, he would not deny the sosismeneef the honourable and learned mem. ben ; but it was the subdivide.' Oland shish hat, in a peat ans. sure, created that 'meaty. There vas sentethinAr p rery tenawy, but especially in such a emery as behind, dos e st i of =eat, and that was the enstom of the pesplitor The ben. and member mast, ea distsithject, be base liosiiiisi b day s other man to give the boom lahunation, and II pith them IS &mimosa& of limit eddied whit • for the madhooden H e was gl a d to War % from NA an excellent and imikenthie entiso. thy as the aolisites-Georwol gor Would, the Waft" AIM of the peat manure of last modes; and he should Imlay via list hen. end hatted member bs bops@ of the future inessiebs prosperity of that country. But when he heard these statements, WI like OM merits of the same hon. and learned member, as to the falsifications of all the prophecies of the evils that meant= have produced, he could not help asking whether the member for Clare, more than any other person in the kingdom, was not the man to whom the country was indebted for these advantages? So that, in referring to that honourable member, they ought not to go backward in his career to find cause of blame, and, least of all, to seek to discover in it those expressions which the heats of discussion on that great question had called forth. The present was not a party question, and he trusted it would not so be treated. The SOLI CITOR-OENER A L thought that the law of England anil Ireland might be advantageously assimilated in many respects, but still these were peculiar circumstances which made a difference in each. They had not now to consider whether a law should be passed to prevent subletting in Ireland. That law had passed, and the only object now was to provide remedies for some objections r:hich had been discovered in the operation of that set. The mem. ber for Clare had said that the first clause of the late act worked much mischief. It had not been the intention of the legislature that should do so, nor did these mischiefs result from any want of care in the wording of the act; tbr use what care they could, it was impossible to ensure success in the use of language that all men would agree to put the same construction upon. He had looked vith extreme attention at the act, and he felt no hesitation in saying that, according to the true constriction, it could not have an er poet facto operation. The honourable and learned member went into a statement of the clauses of the bill, which, he said, had been called for by the peculiar necessities of the time, and he gave his approbation to the clause which did not allow' the tenant to take advantage of any implied waiver on the part of his landlord of the express terms of the lease. In that' respect he wished the English law was the same, for in this country the doctrine of implied waiver was productive of much needless liti gation. Ile knew that it had been and was the intention of the government fai ly to meet the wishes and the wants of the Irish people ; and if ever there was an act passed with the real desire to ameliorate the condition of the people, this was that act ; and he could assure the hon. and learned member for Clare that he should give all the assistance in his power in furtherance of such an object. Mr. O'CONNELL explained, and leave was then given to bring in the bill. ECCLESIASTICAL CORPORATIONS IN IRELAND. Mr. STANLEY said he should make no observations on the motion of which he had given notice, as the noble lord, the Ses retary for Ireland, had told him there was no objection to it on the part of the government. He moved for leave to bring' in a bill to amend the laws respecting the Leasing Powers of Bishops and Ecclesiastical Corporations in Ireland.—Leave granted. GREECE. Lord JOHN RUSSF:LI, said, in rising to bring forward the question of which I have given notice, 1 beg leave to state, that in proposing it my object has been rather to obtain a declaration from the right honourable gentleman opposite than to enter on any hostile discussion on this subject. The events that have recently passed, and the explanations lately given in another place by the mi.l sisters of the crown, have tended a good deal to meet the views I had in bringing forward the motion. 1 am very glad that, by what has already taken place, I am relieved from the necessity of found. ing this motion on the history of the late war between Russia and Turkey, for I fed how difficult it would have been to un. derrake such a discussion without having access to those papers which his majetay's government alone at present ponces ; but there are one or two points with regard to the settlement of Greece—which settlement must in a few days take place—, that call for some explanation. The first regards the form of the government that is intended to be established in Greece. On this point there have been sinister rumours circulated with re. spect to the intention of the Allied Powers, who it is said, had in. tended to introduce a despotic government into Greece. I am happy to say that these rumours have been dispelled by the declarations re. eently made by one of the Secretaries of State, and I hope that the right hon. gentleman will have no objection to renew that declare tion, and will slate that his majesty's government has no intention to interfere to prevent the. Greeks front governing themselves, ae. cording to their wishes and their wants. Such a declaration would gratify me exceedingly ; for while, on the me hand, there is nothing more odious than the introduction, by such a nation as this, of a despotic government into any country ; so on the other hand, I am aware how difficeit it is to adapt any constitution to a people come posed of a number of different classes of men, whose habits and origin ae- tsentially die:Ft:n(l and I therefore see no course that is likely to be effectual in establishing a permanent government in Greece, except by consulting the Lelings of the people who are to be ruled by it. At the seine time, l feel as an Englishman, and sr a citizen, of a free country, that as a new state is to be established, freedom—political fseedoin—should be a conatttuent part of the principles on which its government is to be established. £here is anodic: point of a more doubtful nature to which I will now ;diode. I mean the question of the territory to be given to Greece. I can state to the !mime without fear of opposition, that as the question of Greece had been taken up by the allied powers—as it has been the object cf a treaty, and of hostile operations, iu order to effect the settlement of its goveretnent, it is necessary that that settlement should be such as is likely to be permanent, and that the frontier to be given to Greece should be such as may enable her to preserve, her independence, without a prospect of the repetition of those evils which are stated in the preamble of the treaty of July, 1827. If that point obvious and necessary as it is, were the de clued policy of the government, I should hardly feel it necessary .o make any motion on the subject; but on this subject itself 1 Wye received information from various per sons of such credit and authority as to make it hardly pose Bible to doubt what they say, that for a considerable time it was the object of the allied governments to restrict the new state of Greece to the Mores. When I beard this I was, indeed, surprised and disap pointed (for 1 speak from the t..ntirnony of those who know the fart better than I do) ; such a limitation cf territory would make it rather a place of refuge for freebooters and pirates than one fit to contain the proper elements of a state able to govern and direct itself. Much lof that sorrow I felt at this information, was, indeed, removed by the copy of the protocol in which Arta and Volo were stated as the in tended boundaries of the new state on the north ; and I was the more pleased with this declarstiot., as Sir F. Adam, whose opinion on this subject is deserving mu c h consideration, ha d stated that the coun try within these boundaries would poetess a good defensi se frontier. But, after that protocol was published, and after I had heard that opinior: I must confess it was with considerable apprehensions I heard tie; ether arrarigenients were intended, and 7hat Arta artiVolo were not to be the boundaries of the new 'tote. On that question I hope to obtain either the expression in the opinion of the house, or the declaration of the right hon. gentleman. Besides this question of Arta and Volo, there is another relating to an opinion expressed in another plate with respect to Candle. For my own pert I am not prepared to say that Candia is in such a situation that it is neasasary to insist that it should be given up to Greece; but if it is crew that there has been war there, and that the Greeks are in posses ion of the greater pert of that island, it is clear that you will hazard the tranquillity and settlement of Greece, un less you provide at the same time for the settlement of Candle.— There has been one assertion made which is essentially erroneous. It has been staid, that so far from Candle having been in the post. session of the Greeks at the time of the treaty of July, 11e27, it was not even in a state of insurrection, and that the ineuneetion which did arise was only in aauaequence of that treaty of the allies but 1 have been informed, and 1 bare no hesitation to name the autho rity from whom I derived the information-1 sae I have been informed by Sir Edward Codrington, that when he arrived its the Mediterranean Graham was in the possession of the Greeks, and from that point they excited insurrection in Candle.— With regard to Candle being directly comprehended in the treaty of 1827, I am not prepared to say that it was • but I know of no sulk:lent evidence to justify me in saying lac it was not. The words used in the treaty were, " the Islands of Greece." It was not stated what the islands were, nor was Candice actually named; and perhaps I might go further, and gay that it was ge. nerally supposed Condit was not included, but Samos was ; and that island, I believe,* not to be comprehended in the new State of Greece under the now proposed arrangements. I wish to speak on one point more. The favourable opinion of Mr. Fox towards Turkey was alluded to by the right honourable gentleman on a former night, and the same opinion has likewise been mentioned elsewhere. It Is true that Mr. Fox, or those who acted with him (for I believe it was about the time of his last illnme), did apes with Francs in a proposal to undertake the guarantee of Tur key, that neither France on the one 'hand, nor Russia on the other, should invade that country ; but those who rely on that fact ought to recollect the circumstances of that time, when aggressions to an enormous amount had been made by France, which had before then, made an.irruption into Egypt, and when it b ecame necessary to preserve anything like a balance of power, to agree to the pro- Posed guarantee. That was the only course that could then be adopted to prevent the recurrence of bar; and when, therefore, it was proposed by France, It was the object of England to amps it, for it w a s, In fact, a guarantee against France, that neither that empire nor Russia should be allowed to disturb the balance of power as it was then proposed to be ad. justed. But 1741, when Russia invaded Turkey, Mr. Fox uttered deal ipso* the weeds of which may not have been *weedy given, bum the willow eases of it can hardly be mistaken —in whet he said diet be was net afraid of the 41( Rus sia en Turkey, in Mere is not one meeney eunieet the @ A m p s oohs a d mis by Itempla, but in which the Is the stestniset et bit eplebei that Semi le test power with well 'of a 8 ethers, ball essirias liellmel it E 4 k in our imolai to hem political Ike. Oak newdoe of lir. Fon, expressed mho sir. enemimme mash mese mikes et peso. milettmg Ws die etas yew. moe, rims alma whole wise mil helms, ar pwer! Is Swop WI Ws ...awed. • imastiostalkabo whims' err Meg m y is thib ig i aD that the t 1 Is appetwolgai Ass the enjoins of the treaty otJuly are about to be accomplished. 1 feel the greatest saddtWon that another state is about to be added to the family of European nations, and that that people who for centuries have been afflicted with the calamities, and debased by the vices of slavery, will now take their chance of improvement from the free cont. munication of the knowledge and the arts of other countries. Into the feelings of those who seem to think the pacification of Eu rope a misfortune, I confess I cannot enter. I have nothing in common with them. I know that in 1790, the F.arl of Liverpool made a speech, which gained for him a high character within these walls, in which he recommended England to support Turkey, as a counterpoise to Austria. All I will say upon that point is, that how fatal, or at least how dangerous, are such ape. culations, such theories. and such wire-drawn refinements, on the preservation of the balance of power, has been established by our own experience. (Hear.) Supposing them, however, to he well-founded, when we look to the advantages gained for 510_ davis, Wallachia, Servia, and, last of all, for Greece; when we witness the attainment of freedom from thraldom, and the pro,. pent of increased commerce, and increased knowledge from commu nication between that country and the rest of Europe, we car not re gret that that balance had been disturbed. Putting those political refinements out of eight, it cannot be said that England; ass frit: and commercial country, will not have gained by the late eatablishmem of peace in the east of Europe. To those wo do not participate in these opinions, I will say that I never will consent to be classed with those who think that the improvement of mankind in any part of the globe, and in any manner can be hostile to the interests of Great Britain. " Dii meliora piis,:crroremque hostibus ilium." 1 have now only to conclude by reading my motion :—" That this house learns with satisfaction, that his Majesty hat. recently con. certcd with his Allies, measures for the pacification and final settle. ment of Greece; and it trusts that his Majesty will be enabled, a! an early period, to give such information as may explain the courts: his Majesty has pursued in this important trant.action. " That it is the confident hope of this house, that such finul st t. thment will be found to secure to Greece territory sufficient r It.- tional defence; and that the government will be provided v ur fall powers to adopt those institutions which are suited to 0, wil.cs wants of the people." 31r. Secretary PEEL: Notwithstanding the peculiar ClTCUlll atances in which l am placed, I trust that I shall be enabled to give such general explanations to the noble lord as may induce him to be of opinion that it is not necessary to take the sense of the house upon his motion. I say that Imu placed under peculiar circum. stances, because the house will recollect that on the first day of the session, in the speech front the throne, his majesty stated, that in conjunction with his allies, and in conformity with the treaty ot July 6, he was on the point oft. including a final arrangement for the pacification of Greece, anti for the deteriiiination of its relations with the rest of Europe; and his majesty was pleased to add, that all the papereconnectedwith that arreneement.eufficient to explain the course he had' taken, should be laid before parliament at an early period. In my official capacity I ant, of course, cognisant of flow papers ; and 1 cannot help thinking that nothing could be more ieeonvenient than for me at the present moment to be drawn into an untimely discussion which may involve that information of which etc long the house will be in possession. Were I drawn into such a discus. sion, I do not know how I could avoid availing myself of that in. formation, thus obtaining an advantage in debate which others do not enjoy. I therefore trust that the object of the noble lord will be attained, although I do nut cuter Into that discussion, but if it should hereafter arise, and if the noble lord should deem it ne. ceseary to take the sense of the house, I hope that the forms of the house will nut prevent my offering some further oliservetior.s... (hear, hear.) The noble lord avows that his main object is, if pos. sible, to procure an explanation on two points, which he deems cf pressing importance. First, the nature of the instieutions provided by the allies for the future government of Greece ; second, the tern. torial limits to be assigned to the new state. On the five poiet, I apprehend I shall be enabled to give complete satisfaction. 1 assure the noble lord, that in the arrane,emen a the bases of which have been laid by the allies, who are parties to the treaty of the Gth July, al. though the noble lord seems to have heard rumours to the contrary, no attempt ints been made to dictate despotic monarchy to Grace. No provision is made in the ateangements which can cantroul the establishment of such institutions as may be compatible with the present situation of Greece. I can also venture to disclaim, ea tainly or the part of my own country, and, I believe on the part of France and Russia, any wish to interfere with the formation of such institutions as are best calculated to secure the liberty and promote the happiness of Greece (cheers). Into the second point, which relates to the limits of the new State, I can scarcely enter without an haringement of the principles to which I re ferred at the commeueement of my observations. On the 22d of March was issued a Protocol, to which the noble lord referred, and which in some way or other obtained publicity in the continental Journals, relating to the limits of Greece, and the noble lord has .expressed his apprehensions that the bour.daries now about to be assigned will be ices titan those mentioned in the Protocol. I feel that the present is hot the occasion for entering into the details, but I can venture to assure the noble lord, that the arrangement now in progress for the independence, happiness and security of Greece is, in my opinion, much more favourable that: that which was contemplated iu the `Protocol.---(hear.) The tern. tonal limits,nay be has exteneive: but the compensation fir the more confined limits will, I think, be found ample. The noble lord jnstly observes, that it must be the policy of those countries which entered into the treaty of 6th July, to give Greece such so curie y as in her infancy will protect her them foreign inierference; lie, therefore, wishes that she shall have a frontier capable of being easily defended. It mar be sufficient for me to assure the Noble lord that there is no such limitation cf the new State as he appears to believe is contemplated that the boute. daries will be for more extensive than the 3lotea (hear, hear, hear!) and that it will include all those places with which our historical recollections arc gratefully associated, and that the nature of the frontier will in a considerable degree afferd the moms of defence. Bet the question of limits is of much Ices importance, provided those states which entered into the Treaty of the oth July have completed that atrangement, which we hope will be fulfilment of that engagemente.-provided also, that those states, under whose fostering ate this new rovernmeet is to be established, feel that interest in its prosperity which will induce them, until its resources are of themselves sole. elate, to undertake the guarantee of its independence (hear) With regard to the anxiety of this country to support the govern. meat of Turkey, it would be recollected by the noble lord, that on a former occasion some sarcastic remarks had been mole upon the supposed attachment of ministers to Turkish inethitioue—ets if, tss. Mike they did not wish for the dinmembennent of the Ottoman power, they necessarily admired its institution.. At thee time I pro. tested against any such inference, and I added that 1 thought 1 could prove, by the opinions of statesmen strongly attached to liberty and libetal institutions, that it was possible to entertain a ,iesist to preserve the integrity of Turkey without the implication that it sir fit to support its system of Internal government. The noble lent has spoken of the opinion entertained by Mr. Fox In !Jill, bet in 1806 the circumstances of Europe were certainly mochas mint:wet Mr. Fox to think that it was for the general interest of Europe.— for the sake of the preservation of the tranquillity of the world, that the independence of Turkey should be secured. There was another proof of the opinions of Mr. Fox on this subject, which I did not bring forward. In the course of the discussions with the Finch government in 1806. • proposition 'remade by Prince Taileyrand, that some compensation should 'he made to Sicily, by the establish. meet of a new state, consisting of Albania and the Morel. Mr. Fox protested against this proposed dismemberment of Turkey, contending that it ought to be part of the policy or Great Britain, France, and Russia, to present the integrity of the Terkisb power. Mr. Fox, therefote e attached great importance to the 'main tenance of Turkey as an independent state; but I hope that the men. don of this topic will not tend to introduce discussion. I did not on a former day mean to state Mr. Fox's view, as to tile general ars tem of European policy. I only wished to show by that instance, that public men, in accordance with the example of their predeces sors, .night attach importanes . ep 'the preaervetion of the integrity of Turkey, without necessarily interring that they approved the eye. tent of internal government in Turkey--(hear. hear.) If the noble lord had brought `forward his motion in a leotila manner ; if he hiniself%ad not said that he rather Its. adduced it In order to procure from ministers such an answer ate! such information as they could give consistently with their duty; end if I thought he meant to press it to division, 1 should feel under the necessity of at once opposing it; but considering the pro mise of the crown at the earliest period to afford information, I do not think there is any thing in the complicated relations of this country with regard to Greece, u they have existed during the last three years, to entitle this house so far to withhold he confidence from the present servants ot the crown, end to un dertake to express an opinion briers It has obtained the informs. tion on which an opinion ought to be founded. (lieu, hear.) I beg the house to recollect that when the present govern ment (I mean the administration of the Duke of Wclliugton) came Into office, they found the treaty of the6:ll July in existence; the objects of the treaty were necessarily vague and imperfect, but the intention of it was to apply an immediate remedy to an envy mous evil affecting the interests of every commercial country. Although we were not the authors of that treaty, yet through out the whole progrose•of its execution, we were as desirous to fulfil Its objects in the spirit of the treaty as Mr. Canning himself. What were the facts? Shortly after the accession of the Duke of IVellington to power, one of the parties to the treaty found herself, on rounds quite extrinsic, involved la war with Turkey. Acting the sight of Russia to enter into that was we did not pro ms,. -but left bar to pursue the line of poll,' she deemed h right so take. It boon Gild that toy noble friend at the head of the a bbot, and the govertrutest irstrally, wets in mans respects reopen sibk for the preeipitadose aced rashness with which Turkey ean. r I