Star. — London, England, 1827-05-16 00:00:00

id tile the taw predate df Id the globe, end send it back again in the ed form. Dr. Johnson bad defined calico to in fabric-ashe would presently show that omposed of Indian materials, it was ma here, and sent out for the consumption of t steam-engine bad triumphed ever every When they reflected upon its powers, the energy with sehtch this country had in), they should consider whether they sound in duty not only to this country, hives of India, to replace to the one the de erroneous legislation, and to compensate the calamities and the mortifications of foreign' le would now proceeJ to sbew the progress 'isle of this country with India had made ar 1814. He regretted that the returns were o a later period than 1822, but he should ,o sheer an astonishing improvement during period. The annual export of glass and on the average of years from 1801 to 1810 . The average of the ten years ending with 1,0521. The Hon. Member here proceeded 1 other statements, but from a tumult to ndeness of some of the strangers in the gal se we were prevented from accurately taking . The exports of cotton goods was the most exemplification of the benefit of free trade. to 1810 the exports of cotton goods was reragc 55,1611. average during the win g with 1822, wits 568.5001. anJ the ave. two yea: s 1824, and 1825, was no less than The next remarkable illustration of his as in the article of sugar. The import of ugar to Eigland, from 1801 to 1810, was to ot 77,3251. From 1814 to 1822. the annual 177.9791. But the average of the two fol -1829 and 1824, was 244,3281. Now un these statements exhibited an immense in trade between this country and India, and would have been much greater, if we had to all sound principles of policy, determined igher duties should be charged upon all tro tions, which were the growth of the East hest Indies. He could not conceive upon what policy or of justice this difference was he East Indies was as much a part ot the se West. It was as much entitled to the its interests. From the extent of its popu. ded greater commercial advantages—ad ich could never, from the very nature of aped, unless upon the principle of recipro the duties then imposed upon East India not prohibitory, arose from the great de mirk to maintain commercial intercourse miry, and still more perhaps from the low our in India. Such duties imposed upon of any other part of the world would have tory, and in this instance he believed they ed to be so. The duty on East India E. a ton more than on West In !la. On East the duty was 281. more. On cocoa also ow 71. On rum, very little he believed was a the East Indies, II s. 6d. per gallon. On was an ad adman duty of W. more. It rely be said that this was acting on a prin ce; it rather 'hewed an utter indifference )les of justice and sound commercial policy. treatment which caused the separation of merican Colonies. The total amount of imports her 1824 was 4,355,4371. and f , r 3861. He begged leave to draw the a tea :loose to one particular article, sugar, that general consumption, and the consumption eht be very greatly increased. He was hat the produce of the West India Colonies e consumption of this count' y, and that, !price here must be regulated by the pia* markets of Europe. It was well known, that he disadvantage of an additional duty of 10s. of East India sugar had lately found its )ra the East Indies, and sold rapidly. It td no effect in diminishing the price. It ought, therefore, that sugar was as bad as to be, and that there could be no probe increase,' importation of East India sugar. different opinion. He thought the consump be greatly increased, if the people of this having the markets of the East thrown open re enabled to send their manufactures there, pay for the sugar they consumed. The ace option of sugar in England was 29111 b. per Ireland 615. Now if-Ireland became, as it nod government, a manufacturing country, prevent the consumption from being as ts here? To encourage manufactures was the t'.. r the evils which afflicted Ireland. If the could thus find sufficient employment, it me a tower of strength and a mine of wealth. manufacture was finding its way there al as he heard, a great deal of cotton yarn was rer to Belfast to be wove. The evils of Ire f India, arose from the same causes, excess on, and its natural consequence, low wages. n principles of justice and free trade with would establish themselves in the hearts of and continue to retain their affections, even the course of events, the country might, at t period, fall under the dominion of another The surplus population of India and of Ire , by a sure course I f policy, be employed in applying each other. His object was to move t Committee, as the only means by which could obtain full and accurate information. great impediments were thrown in the way rate trader, by the commercial residents of troy, who made advances to the inhabitants, it means shut up the trade in a great mea union of trade and Sovereignty were inconr thts was a subject which it was highly ins. inquire into. This plan would have the effect ig its advantages to the Eastern Archipelago, is of which were similar to those of India. the time was not far distant when the mono trade with China would be broken up, but :t to the Indian Archipelago the same diffi not exist. The duty on sugar from the ;co was completely a prohibitory one, being, d, 641. a ton. Mr. Crawford, in his evi se the Lords' Committee, said that, pre. le late alterations, British manufactures were sown in that quarter of the globe ; but now, no Lady was seen without some cotton of anufacture, and a large portion of wool s the use r f the later article, Mr. Crawford Ph, the rains which prevailed at certain le went on to say, that the progress of free astonishing; that in 1816 a thousand pieces overstocked the market of Java, but that in 4 1828, fifteen thousand pieces wets sold in eneseqeMted of the reduced price. This trade might be increased to any extent, if the inhabitants had a medium of payment through the disposal of their own produce. Another nod,* for his proposing a Committee was to inquire ions the emporia of Sineapore, and Prince's Island. He believed the emporium of Sincapore, though he could sot pretend to be in possession of accurate information, eras conducted on sound principles. It was important to inquire into these emporia, for through them a very extensive trade might be carried on in spices,a monopoly of which the Dacia endeavoured to secure by confining their growth to certain islands, and destroying the gee in all the other islands. Mr. Crawford writ of npi- Ilion that a beneficial trade with China could be carried on only through these emporia. It was merely in refe rence to them that be should make one or two obser vations with respect to the China trade. It was a sin• guise fact that Canton was not skinned in a province which produced um. The 'nowise, of which black tea. was the growth, was four hundred miles distant from Canton, and that in which the green tea grew, between seven and eight hundred miles. The tea VC bri brought to Canton either by land carriage or inland navigation, and the difference of cost at the place of its growth, and the Awe where it was sold was SO per cen , . The carriage to Java from the place of growth was vsry little more thin to Canton. This was sufficient to shew how much more advantageously the trade might be carried on through emporia. He bad now stated the,general outline of his plans, and he felt confident that the appointment of this Committee would be pro ductive of very great benefit. By opening the trade and acting upon a more liberal commerc al system, they would give confidence and happiness to their sub. jects in India, and what was of perhaps s ill greater importance, open a source of employment for the over• grown population of Ireland. It was not by drawing a revenue from India that they could benefit mate: ially either themselves or that country, but by giving to it the benefits of Int.extencted commerce. As the question was one of justice, of policy, and sound principle, one affecting the vital interests of the ertspite at large, he trusted the House would not refuse this inquiry. By agreeing to the Committee, they might lay the founda tion of the gre.test benefits to India, to Great Britain, and to Ireland. The Honourable Member concluded by moving , t That a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the trade between Great Britain and India." Mr. SLANEY seconded the motion. He must pro test against having this considered as a merely com mercial question. It must be considered In reference to another important consideration, namely, what was to be the future Government of one hundred millions of people? It was always thought that mental im provemeut depended much on physical improvement; and what could more tend to physical improvement than the increase of trade and commerce. Mr. Gibbon observed, in reference to India, that the richest and most extensive provinces of the Mogul Empire belonged now to a company of merchants in an obscure island in the Northern Ocean. It had been treated ever since they got possession of it as a mere dependency. He trusted, however, that in the progress of time this great country would have the honour of transpl toting her free institu tions to the heart of India, as she bad before to America. Mr. LESTER supported the question. The repeal of the high duties on East India produce was called tor, first, by consistency, fur it was inconsistent to adopt towards India a principle different , to that on which they acted with respect to other countries. It was called for by justice, for it was unjust to tax the whole community heavily for the benefit of one particular class—the West India planters. It was called for by policy and humanity. When their owa manufacturers were suffering from want of employment, was it not inhuman, by keeping up an artificially high price of sugar, to prevent them from mixing one drop of sweet with their bitter cup?—(A laugh). This high price of sugar became accessary to the slave trade, and was maintained in defiance of public opinion. If the people were not righted they would soon right themselves by a nonconsumption agreement. What would then be come of the whole West India property? It would be swept away as lin an earthquake. Nothing could make the present Government more popular than agreeing to this motion. He wished sincerely that they might be popular, for they afforded some ground to hope that the great question of Catholic Emancipation, the sine qua nom, without which the trancpSillity of the empire could not be secured, would be at length successful. By act. ing upon these liberal principles they would secure the esteem, the love, and confidence of the country. Mr. HUSKISSON said the Hon. Gentleman who spoke last did not seem to be aware of the conclusion to which the Hon. Mover (Mr. Whitmore) came. His Hon. Friend only proposed the appointment of a Select 'Committee, but the Hon. Gentleman proposed that the duties should be immediately equalized on East and West India produce. In the event of Parliament not consenting to this proposition, he threatened the West India Proprietors with a nonconsumption agreement. This plan of a nonconsumption agreement had been re commeaded some time back, but if acted upon at all it was very unsuccessful. for the consumption of sugar had greatly increased. That of last year had exceeded the consumption of any antecedent year, and brought in a clear revenue cf five million. after payment of all draw. backs—(Hear, hear). He fully concurred in the prin ciple that it was the duty of Parliament to open, where it could be done, new channels of trade, as well as to increase facilities in the old. When pro/mulls were made in Parliament tending. or supposed to tend, to such ends, it was usual to assign as one ground of in quiry the prevailing distress of the manufacturing in terest. Whatever might have been the case some time back, he was happy to have it in his power to inform the House that, at present, things were much altered for the better—(Hear, hear). In Lancashire and the other manufacturing districts there were great imp. toms of improvement in every branch connected with the cotton trade. Numbers who were out of work some time back were now in full employment, and their em ployers were able to find a market. Those who had been long suffering under severe privations, were able by their industry to procure those comforts to which they were formerly accustomed. With respect to the question itself, he fully concurred in every principle laid down by his Hon. Friend (Mr. Whitmore). Agreeing, however, in the principles, the House must be aware that it was always a matter of great importance when a material change was to be introduced, to adopt such a course of proceeding as would be least injurious to existing in terests, and to establi,hments in which property to a large amount had been embarked fur many years. It was the duty of Government to watch every opportu nity for opening the channels of trade, but they were bound also to regulate their conduct so as not to sacri fice one interest while they were promoting the views `of mother. the /Cut Indies might be rieh hi all trOis pical profluctions, bat they Most consider that before they had recourse to the East Indies fot their prodac. tions, they had encouraged the growth of similar pro ductions in their West India Colonies. They were bound therefore in justice to consider the effects to which and den changes were likely to lead. When the trade to the East was first opened,what they brought from there was not sugar, or raw silk, or cottons The trade was carried on principally in goods manufactured in that country; for there they were obliged to pay in the precious me• tale obtained by the sale of their own manufactures in other parts of the world. It would be cruel if those who hitherto supplied them with the raw material for their manufactures were now, on a sudden, to be shut out from any of the benefits they had previously en joyed. It should be recollected that very important changes had taken place since 1813, in the trade to the East Indies. Relaxations since then were gradually introduced, and by the recommendation of the Board of Controul, further concessions were obtained towards opening ete trade. It was cheering to hear the are merits of the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Whitmore), with respect to the increase of the trade, and be had no doubt that it would increase 'rill further; but if, is any further relaxation that might be proposed, they were entirely to throw other interests out of considera tion, they might infl ct evils in one quarter, which would more than counterbalance the good done in aanther—(Hear, hear). He could assure the House that this subject had received from him the most anxious attention, and he was not without hope of bringing it to a satisfactory result. The trade of the East and West Indies might under proper regulations go on together, without mutual injury; but by forcing measures they might run the risk of producing serious evils to one, without adequate benefit to the other. It was truly observed by his Hon. Friend (Mr. Whitmore), that the monopoly of sugar did not greatly enhance the price of that article. Their Colonies istoduced 50 or 60,000 hogsheads more than was necessary for the consumption of this.country. This, together with the sugar of the Br azils, of Cuba, of St. Domingo and other islands, found its way into the general market of the world; and the price in the general market of course regulated the market here. The monopoly therefore could have but lit tle if any effect. He must entirely reject the argoment drawn from slavery in favour of the importation of East India sugar. He was al little a friend to negro slavery as any man, but he did not think the quantity which could be brought from the East would have any material effect. If he thought so abundant a supply, as greatly to affect the price could be obtained from thence, it would be a matter for consideration. If an abundant ' supply could be had from the East Indies at a low price, why was it that other countries did not import it ? There was nothing to prevent them from going to Cal cutta or to the Eastern Archipelago. He felt convinced that the importation here would not be much increased by taking off the duty. The fact was, that East India sugar was brought here as a sort of dead weight and could never reach this country in large quantities, unless other branches of their teade with the East were greatly extended, and that sugar was brought merely as ballast. —He must, however, admit that the present state of the law, as it respected the sugar trade and drawbacks, was not quite the most satisfactory. The subject was beset with difficulties. His wi.b was Co advance the interests of ail parties with as little prejudice as possible to any. He should not think it advisable to embark in so large an enquiry as this pe r od of the Session. It would not be the best way either to remove prejudices or to quiet apprehensions, and no real progress could be made until that had bee% done. In his opinion the trade to the East and West Indies might be gradually extended without injury to either. He would not say that the existing difference of duty on the article of cotton was not a fit subject for reconsideration. It was clear that the trade with the East Indies could not be extended unless the popula tion there had something to offer in exchange for Bri tish manufactures. He thought, therefore, that cotton, the production of that country, ought to be placed on the same footing as that which was the growth of other parts of the Britian dominions. Silk was another article worthy of serious consideration. Material alterations had been lately made in the state of the law, ash affected the raw silk of India. He believed that ere long, in conse quence of the changes in the trade at home, the manufac turers ofthis country would be able to export silk goods advantageously to India. Thus they found from experience the salutary effects of occasional alterations suited to those changes of circumstances which were the result of accidental discoveries, or of improvements made in one country while another stood still or perhaps retro graded. If such changes were not met by accommo dating the laws to them, but by persisting in making permanent those rules of Government which were well suited to a different state of things, they should be taking the only way to drive their commerce and manu factures from the country—( Hear, hear.). This applied to the altered state of India, as he trusted he had shewn to the House. With respect to the other part of the Hon. Member's speech, he was aware of the immense number of islands which opened a prospect of a great' extension of commerce to this country. He would state—and with some personal satisfaction—that those two emporiums of the commerce of that part of the world, the ports of Sine ipofe and Mahratta, were, under the arrangements which the East India Com pany seemed disposed to adept, to be placed is all respects in the situation of per feet free ports. The effect of this system as far as their experience of it at present went, was satisfactory—but what would be its effect upon the trade of India and China here after he would not take 'upon himself to say. He looked to it for the greatest advantage in the employ ment of the British flag, and he looked also to the be nefit promised by the great intercourse likely to take place between the western part of America and the eastern part of Asia. But he would leave it to the Honourable Member himself, whether it would be more expedient to appoint the Committee now, or postpone inquiry until they had ascertained how far the experiment should prove successful, and how far it could be extended? He thought the inquiry would be made with much more advantage when they approached nearer to the period when the whole question of the renewal of the East India Company's Charter must come under the consideration of the House. If, there fore, he opposed the motion, it was not because he dif feted with his Honourable Friend upon his principles, for he was as anxious as he to carry those principles into operation as fast as was consistent with the due consideration of existing interests—but because he thought this was not the best time for going into the subject. There was only one point upon which he dif fined from the views taken by the Hon. Gentleman, and that was as to the benefits to be desired by Ireland From the extension at die gist triclit tteiltlir that part of the empire. lie would not now go into the circumstances which had hitherto prevented Ireland from becoming rich in her commerce and her mann factures. But be those circumstances what they might, be did not see how the extending the trade of India to that country could be of more advantage than its eaten. %ion to any part of the realm. The improvement of Ireland must depend upon the introduction of that state of comfort and confidence in society which alone cold attract manufactures and make them flourish. Manure& tures were already beginning to be established is Ire. land, and he hoped they would be successful and pro. gressive. He did not think !hat the manufacture of sugar world be advantageously encouraged there, as an Hon. Member had recommende '. Upon the grounds he had stated he must oppose the motion, under the conviction that this was not the time for inquiry, but without denying that it would be necessary hereafter. He agreed with him in principle, and wished to see the commerce between this country and its eastern posses. %ions placed on the least restrictive footing that was practicable; but the proper time for doing it would be when the charter by which the present rights in that empire were held should come to be reconsidered by the House. Lord MILTON said, that if the Right Hon. Gentle man had opposed the motion on principle, he should have voted for is, and have recommended his Hon. Friend to take the sense of the House. But as the Right Hon. Gentleman had only objected to the time, be thought his Han. Friend would be best furthering his own object by leavirg the subjection in the hands of the Government, whose intentions seemed to be so much in unison with his wishes. Mr. PHILLIPS said, he was happy to be able to con firm what had been stated to the House by the Right Hon. Gentleman as to the late improvement in the ma nufacturing districts. The Hon. Member read extracts from a letter he had recently received, stating that the manufactories were working night and day without being able to meet the demand ; that wages were ad vancing, and that there was more employment than hands. He had never taken a desponding view of the ( distress which had been so long suffered, and he sin cerely hoped the present change would be permanent. He entirely agreed in the object of the motion ; after the satisfactory explanation of the Right Hon. Gentleman. he thought it ought not to be pressed. Sir C. FORBES said, he had heard with the greatest satisfaction the clear and (=did statement of the Right Hon. President of the Board of Trade—(Hear). He was delighted to find so much attention paid to so important a subject. because the mere mention of the name of In dia usually cleared the House of half its Members. He would only say, that deeply interested as be was in the welfare of India, he would leave this great question with the greatest satisfaction in the hands of the Right Hon. Gentleman. Mr. SYKES thought an extension of our trade to the Ent Indies would materially benefit the Shipping In terest, which was suffering severely. He was not in sensible to what had fallen from the Right Honourable Gentleman, and if his proposition were carried into effect, he had no doubt the trade and commei ce of Eng land would be greatly benefited. Capt. ROSS said, be fully concurred in what 'had been said in favour of free trade, as fir as its principles sho.rld be safely introduced, and with due consideration of tslose interests which had so long existed in the West India Colonies. Mr. W. SMITH saw no occasion for postponing the que tion five or six years. The Right Hon. Gentleman said, the period of renewing the Company's Charter would be a fit one to consider the subject. He differed on that head : he thought the subject ought not to be so long delayed. The interests of commerce demanded immediate investigation. If, howevei, his Hon. Friend withdrew his motion for the present, his Majesty's Mi nisters might, and he had no doubt they would, give that early attention to the question which its great ins. portance demanded. Mr. BERNAL expressed his surprise that his Hon. Friend the Member for Norwich, should have gone into what he conceived so irrevelent a matter as that of Mauritius sugar. He was the more surprised, too, be cause he remembered that his Hon. Friend did not vote against the admissiOn of sugar from that colony. Hs entirely dissented from the proposition that cotton could be more beneficially cultivated in the We►t Indies than sugar. He regretted that his Hon. Friend should have so far departed from his own general candour, and he would say from the usual course suggested by the rec titude of his mind. as to bring in these common-place topics of violence and abuse upon occasions like the present. He was provoked to makethese observations, for he would not sit still and hear insinuations thrown out against that body of which he was one, without re pelling them. Sir R. FA RQUHAR said he was surprised to hear the allusion to the Mauritius question from the Honourable Member for Norwich, when he recollected that the Ho. nourable Member opposite (Mr. F. Buxton) made a speech of two hours length advocating the policy and justice of admitting the sugar of that colony. He de fied the Honourable Member or any of his pasty to prove that one single slave had been introduced into the Mauritius since 1820, with the exception of one ship( which, in the year 1825, was run ashore by one of his Majesty's cruisers, and there burnt. While he W . a s there no slaves were introduced. and the present Governor had pledged his honour as a gentleman and a soldier to the same fact. He defied the Honourable Gentle. m n to bring the least evidence to support the assertion, but that of discarded officers of the Government and perjured soldiers. Mr. BUXTON thought that he had great reason to complain of the speech of the Hon. Member for Hythe. If he (Mr. Buxton) followed the dicta:es of his feelings, he should at once proceed to controvert the arguments of the Hon. Member, and to dispute his statements. He could not, however, then enter upon the subject. as it was foreign to that which ought to have been strictly under the consideration of the House—(Hear)—but, he would tell the Hon. Member, that when the proper time came he would not shrink from his duty. bat would be prepared to maintain the charges which he had brought forward on a previous occasion. But let him not be misunderstood—he had never asserted that the Slave Trade was now being carded on in the Mauritius. Sir R. FA ILQUH AR—Jo Yon did." Mr. BUXTON denied that he ever had. He bads,. • ierted that it was carried oa while the Hon. Member was Governor; and be had no means of knowing whe ther it hAd been carried on since. And when the Hon. Member said that during the time he was in office, be had even overstepped the law to bring offen ders to justice, he (Mr. Buxton) only wished to rem ind she ~~