Star. — London, England, 1813-02-19 00:00:00

- - ve kept them suspended over that power, till Ame ca was out of the situation to do us harm ? As to e proposal respecting the impressment of seamen, his mind there was a great difference between spending a right, and altogether giving it sp.-- !mica did not call upon us to give up this right,l d altogether giving it up. America did not call nus to give up this right, but to take time to nsider whether it might not be suspended. As to e management of the oral., he would say, " De re of entering into a quarrel, but being in it, bear manfully." He trusted, and had no doubt, that the war continued, we should, in a short time. weep from the seas all the vessels of our new enemy. . The LORD CHANCELLOR was of opinion at his Majesty's Ministers had rather to apologize or submitting so very long, on the part of Great retain, to the provocations they received from the nited States. He sincerely thought they would nd it very hard to justify themselves, if they ab tained so long in the case of any other Power. He elt assured they would all recur to the first opportu ity of re-entering, with honour, into the relations of ace and amity with the United States of America. t was the interest of both countries that these rela ions should never be broken, and their interests to urn to them as soon as possible. But he must pro test against any doctrine which militated against the ssertion and exercise of a right, without which this Country could not even exist, viz. that of calling upon , the personal service of its subjects, under their alle giance, from the service of foreign states, and to af ford their utmost assistance to the country against those States with whom we were at war. This was a principle and object in which the vital interests of this country were involved; and it was incontroverti ble, that States had a right to retain the allegiance of their natural born subjects; and he could not help saying, that unlefs America altered its conduct with respect to that subject, he did not see how the defect could be supplied : if the continuance of such a prac tice would reduce our navy to that state, to which, if it ever should arrive, the country would have every thing to fear. The question *as again put, and the Address agreed to, with not more than one or two dissentient voices. It was ordered to be presented to the Prince Regent in the usual way. WAR IN SPAIN. The Marquis WELLESLEY acquainted the House, that he should bring forward some Proposi tions respecting the last Campaign in the Peninsula, on Thursday the 4th of March, for which day he moved their Lordships should be summoned. Or dered.—Adjourned (at eight o'clock) till tomorrow. HOUSE OF COMMONS. The Starch Manufaqturers' Prohibition Repeal Bill was read a second time, and committed for to-morrow. Mr. COURTNEY presented the Report of the Resolutions of the Committee of Supply of lag night, which were agreed to, and Bills ordered accordingly. The Land-Tax Commissioners Nantes Bills was read a second time, and committed for to-nisi row. P&titions were presented against the Leather Tar, and in favour of and against the East-India mono oly P . On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, the names of the Defaulters in the ballot for the Sudbury Election Committee, were called over, and such defaulters were ordered to at. tend the ballot fixed for Tuesday ; as were the names of Defaulters in the ballot for Colchester on Monday. The following Members were elected to try the merits of the Haslemere Petition : Mr. Wood, Sir G. Bowyer, Mr. Luttrell. Mr. Vanderhagee s Mr: P. Paget, Mr. Singleton, Lord G, Beresford, Mr. Brand, Mr. Edmundaton, Mr. W. Lunde, • _ Mr. Maitland, Sir J. Shaw. Mr. Fawcett, The following Members were appointed to try the ,inerits of the Colchester Election : Mr. Grant, Mr. Brewln, Mr. Baker, Mr. Cartwrigbt, Mr. Vyse, Mr. Knox, Mr. French, Holdsworth, Mr. Collings, Mr. Ritchford, Mr. Larkins, !sir C. Saston l Bate. Mr. Carew NOMINE s2IVIr. Bootle and Sir E. Knatebbull, Bart. AMERICAN WAR. Lord CASTLEREAGH, in rising to call the at tention of the House to the voluminous body of evi dence on their table, which had been communicated 'to them by his Royal Highness the Prince Regent, was confident they would bear in mind the circum stances under which it had been laid before them.— , Bad the question of this night been merely, Whether or not Ministers, in the late negotiations with Ame- Tica, had so performed their duty as to merit the ap , probation of PArliament, such a mass of Papers would /lot have been laid before them. This for their own personal conduct would not h ive been necessary. It was enough for them to discharge the arduous duties of their situations in such a manner as to satisfy their , own consciences, with , ut calling for the approbation of Parliament. It had been thought more proper, as it was more natural for them, to leave it open to those who thought they had departed from that line of conduct which ought to have been pursued, to attack them, before they submitted to Parliament -the grounds upon which they proceeded. The papers now on their table had been produced at the instance of other persons, and particularly in compliance with i the wishes of an Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Whitbread), and from a desire on the part of themselves, to call for the opinion of Parliament on their conduct. But , though they did not call for the expression of an °pi.' • Zion on their conduct in the correspondence which had taken place between this country and America, and which had been continued for two years and a half (from the beginning of 1810 to the latter end of 181'2), they had no reluctance to give every infor mation in their power, no reluctance to submit the whole of their conduct to Parliament, and no dispo sition to avoid the fullest investigation. The point , 'which ought alone to occupy the House this night , was, whether under all circumstances, the calamitous war in which we were engaged (he thought it cala mitous, as it extended the war beyond that sphere, 'before sufficiently ample, to which it had previously ;been confined) was necessary. He knew of no guar- ',ter to which the war could have been extended with Less prospect of advantage to either party than to the United States of America ; but if all lamented the 'war, he trusted all would be satisfied of its justice. lie spoke the sense of lag Wig:taws I and ho Wasted ' that of the Parliament Ind the could not but consider the war a first importance to the country. had not the tonsolation to Meet, had averted the war, they hid the lation—.that of finding thqnselves on grounds so just, on principl derations of such paramount _ iportanee, _ Country was carried into it with a spirit (annum. mitt', which gave the best pledge that - it would be prosecuted with vigour, and that peace (the legiti mate end of all war) would be accomplished with the least possible delay. This circumstance had great weight, not only with the iceople of this coun. try, but also with the people of America ; for he did not believe the American people so dead to a sense of justice, as to prevent its having due weight on the other side of the water. It would be likely to have the effect of making the war popular with the Americans, and of encouraging them to call loudly on their Government to give them peace. This being the case, it would be for them to decide whether or. not the war was just and necessary. The proposition which he should have to submit ;o them, would be to, assure his Royal Highness the Prince Regent, that, confident in its justice, he might rely on their best ex. ertions to support the honour of the Crown, and maintain the ancient rights and general interests of the country. He should waste their time if he were to travel very far into the contents of the papers before them. Many of the points which they embraced, had been at different times discussed, and the opinion of Parliament, directly or collaterally taken on them.— He should, therefore, endeavour, as shortly as pos sible, to call their attention to the latter part of the correspondence, to shew the necessity of the war. In calling on the House to support the Address he should propose, he felt much confidence in those de clarations which had been made in the last Parlia ment, doubtless with a view to the best interests of the country, that if the concessions then made in the hope of bringing the differences between the two countries to an amicable termination—if they failed to remove the existing angry feeling- 7 if America took the disposition to conciliate for a submission to any demands she might put forward, that then they would unite against ler pretensions, to uphold the honour, the rights, and the interests of this country. He trusted those persons would feel themselves re sponsible to the country for what they had thus ad. vanced, and that their support would be given with as much firmness as it had been promised with sin cerity—that America might see they were disposed to be her friends, they were not disposed to second her unreasonable wishes. He trusted, on this occa sion, no important difference of opinion would exist, and he thought the unanimous vote of that night would lay the best foundation for a permanent and honourable peace. If they looked at the document; published by the American Government, relative to the causes of the war, there might appear reason to fear that the day of peace was at a great or immea surable distance. In the declaration of war of the President, and in site Report of the Minister for Fo reign Relations, it would be seen that every thing was pressed into those publications that could tend to widen the breach between the two countries. Every old complaint and ancient grievance, though long before settled, disavowed, or repaired, were here brought for ward, unaccompanied by a statemen/of the consequent steps taken by the British Government. These were used to influence the minds of the people in order to make the war popular, when, had pro. per explanathans been given with them, instead of justifying the war, they would have furnished argu. ments directly opposite. The American Government had built a claim to a desire for peace, on the propo sition made for an armistice, when the declaration of war was issued. If any thing was meant in this, in what temper had it been urged ? Why, if such a disposition existed, had statements been made in the declaration, false in themselves, or if not false, no longer in fairness to be urged, the subject of com plaint having been done away, by explanation or atonement ? The Orders in Council, and the illegal blockades (as they called them), but above all the practice of impressing the King's subjects when found on board American merchantmen, had been com plained of by America. The illegal blockades, as they were termed, of 1806, it might be said, had been put out of the question by the proposition made for an armistice, but this subject had been so pressed as to leave the English Government no opportunity of deciding on it, in a manner satisfactory to Ame rica, without compromising the rights and the in f terests of England. The House would recollect that Mr. Russell had claimed, on the part of his I Government, indemnity from this Country to Ame-1 rica for all the captures made under the Orders in Council, and the blockades of 1806. He did not say that, at a future period of the negotiation, this point might not have been given up ; but as the question stood at that moment, America could have no right to expect that claims so urged would be ad mitted. With respect to the Orders in Council, on which various discussions had taken place in that House, he thought he might venture to say, that those who opposed them differed from those who , supported them, more on the question of com. mercial expediency, than on the question of the right of this country to retort on France, the measure she had devised for our destruction. He wished to waive a discussion on this subject at present, but he wished fit to be distinctly understood, that Ministers, in con senting to a relaxation of that system, had never for a moment abandoned the right they had to resort to it, nor suffered it to be called in question. He beg ged to be understood at all times to assert, that the measure was not only justifiable, but necessary, at the time it was resorted to—not merely as a measure of retaliation on France, but as one of commercial policy ; and whatever pressure might have been felt in this country, from the want cf . the American market, he would say, that but for the manly resist. ance opposed to the hostility of the enemy, France would have been as commercially triumphant on the Continent, as she had unfortunately been in a mili tary point of view, and England would have had no means of contributing to that great change which had now taken place in the affairs of Europe. He begged to be regarded as the admirer and the fol lower of those principles on which that system had been taken up by his Right Honourable Friend now unhappily no more. It had been modified, and its operation brought within the narrowest bounds cir cumstances would permit in the year 1809. After bt the iloetmient is3lse6 by . the Duke w efforts had been ' made to make the Orders In Council less productive of neutrali An offer had been made :fly to enforce the blockading system in concert with her. Dispositions had manifested to relax in favour of neutrals necessarily resorted to, so far as this couldbileine without proving destructive to the principles on which they were founded—to.coerce, France, and oblige her to abandon her new system. The blockades now brought forward had long . been wholly untonaplained of on the part of America.— ' Three years had elapsed without their being brought into discussion. The conduct of the, English Go vernment in this respect was so far from being offen sive to America, that a special representation was made by the American Ministers in London regard ing this, as founded on a disposition to favour Ame rica. After stating this, it was unnecessary for him to argue on this point at great length, as it was one in which he believed all public characters in this country were agreed. It had originated in a Govern ment of which Mr. Fox was Secretary for Foreign Affairs, and the Administration which had followed, maintained the justice of the system of blockade adopted by England, if supported by an adequate. force. It was nothing more than a blockade, resting on the ordinary principle of maritime law.— Mr. Fox did not institute it till he had written to the Admiralty to know if it could be supported by an adequate force ; and he therefore trusted that it stood on groUnds which meither the Government of Ame rica nor the Government of France could by possibi lity shake. The most interesting part of the case was the general question, whether this country had or had not a right to impress her own subjects when found on board American merchantmen ? This sub ject closely affected the interests of this country, and it was one which they had been taught to believe of the first importance to our naval power. He would not fatigue the House by going through the various letters which he had received from Mr. Russell, and the American Agent for Prisoners in this country, and those which had passed between Admiral Warren and the American Minister. Though some shades of difference might appear in various parts of the correspondence, the House would feel that no sub stantial difference of importance could exist. In looking to this most important question, he wished to direct the attention of the House to the temper with which the claims of America had been urged, though he would be the last man in the world to contend the temper manifested in the discussion as that which ought to call forth resentment. He was not disposed to undervalue the inconveniences to which America had been exposed from the measures of the belligerent Powers, as all neutrals must suffer, more or less ; but America herself ought, however, to do justice to the earnestness with which Engl.lnd had laboured to make those inconveniences, as tar as they depended on her, as light as possible. She ought to admit, while she manifests so much anxiety. to protect her own seamen, that England had a right to the service of her own subjects. This was a right essential to our conservation, which belonged to us equally in war and in peace. That which was merely a question of convenience with her, was one of the first importance to us—one the decision of which might go to-shake our very existence. America had, in his opinion, prostituted the character of her Go vernment, in taking the tone which she had assumed on this subject, which was founded neither on reason nor sense, and only calculated to excite unjust preju dices, which might be fatal to the future harmony of the two nations. It was not possible for America to say, looking fairly and dispassionately at the merits of the case, that the English Government could have an interest in acting the part imputed to it. They asserted, that American subjects were seized to man English ships, and that the persons seized were trea ted with peculiar hardship ; and it was very unfairly assumed, that every seaman taken froth an American vessel was an American subject. The American Government accused this country of having impress ed fifteeen or twenty thousand of her seamen to man English vessels. Could it be believed that the Eng lish Government were so dead to all the great inte rests of state as to risk a war with America for such an object ? So far from their being any reason to suppose that twenty thousand American seamen were in our service, he could state, that at two pe riods, not very distant, an order had been given to call on those who could claim to be discharged as American seamen to come forward, when, though it was not to be supposed that fewer than were entitled to their discharge would come forward, out of the whole number of men employed in our Navy, now amounting to 145,000, in January, 1811, out of the twenty thousand mentioned by the American Go vernmtnt, but three thousand five hundred, who in any way could prefer a claim to a discharge on this ground. When a similar call was made at the beginning of the present year, (many having in the mean time been liberated,) the number fell S or 400 short of that which be had just stated. This was the number of individuals who asserted they had a right to be so dis charged. The usual proportion of those.entitled to a discharge on this ground, was found to be one in four of the number who applied to be thus dismissed the service. Three out of four were usually found to have no right whatever to such a discharge. Now if it was admitted that many who were really Ameri cans, from the difficulty of procuring proofs of their being so, were wrongfully detained, and taking the number thus kept, to amount to half the total number claiming to be discharged on such grounds, it would be seen, that instead of 20,000 American seamen being in ourservice, there might he 16 or 17(X) who were con tinued in cur Navy, contrary to the wish cf the Eng lish Government. Could the House believe, could any man be so infatuated, (for he regarded it as an infatuation even in America), that England was so much distressed for men to man her fleets that her I pride would nd to seek such a resource, and her Government sa ri cticn such an act of injustice ? Ame rica, he trusted, would shortly acknowledge, that we had not wronged her, and feel that the question was —not whether we should take her seamen, but whe ther England should submit to be deprived of her own ? He now came to speak of the hazard to which this country would be exposed, if this point were given up to America. He hoped he might say, with out offence to the American Government, that he had been able to see nothing in their cxmduct which ought to disarm our apprehensions, and inspire us with con- VettCe to trust our interests to their keeping. Milli's ten were so far from wishing American .leatten totsd impressed, that instructions were given hot td mkt men, unless under very particular circumstances, *lit) were in possession of American cert i fic a t es: These instructions, however, had not been given, with Ont a consciousness that many of these certificates were fraudulently obtained, and so fraudulently granted, th t a knowledge of the practice was totally ;nem. sisteat with the idea, that we ought to entertain std apprehensions of the conduct of America. Cerra. cates were granted in the United States with A degree of laxity, of which, for the honour of America, every one ought to feel ashamed. In New York and Phi• ladelphia the system of obtaining these from the coll. lectors was so scandalously complete ; that at the fora suer place an old woman, in one day, uas suffered by the collector to qualify a whole host. On her o .th that those she introduced were Americans, they er,• r e all registered as subjects of the United States, and c..in went on till at last the clerk, who was under due collector, was so shocked, that he asked his =pert* " if he could suffer so palpable a cheat to paw and if he would lend himself to so disgraceful is transaction ?" The answer of the collector weep " that he acted ministerially :" and the old was 'man went on to swear in those she had brought, receiving two dollars for each ; and all thus sworn in were registered as American subjects. At Philadele phia the proceedings were as bad; but he would not follow up his statement by a detail of similar ma. sactions. He, however, would ask, did Ameriai profess to admit that the subjects of this country were bound to our service ? On the contrary, did she not deny it, and maintain, that by the process he had described, or by any individual's taking the oath of allegiance to-Vae United States, a subjcct of Eng. land ceased to owe allegiance to his King ? The question of inipressment hence arising, he contended, was a question of great difficulty, and he would say, that though they ought never to shut the dour against negociation, yet with a knowledge of these circum stances they could not view the conduct of America without jealousy and mis:rust ; and therefore they would not be, justified in surrendering to them a right founded on the law of nations, which had never been called in question before, and which never r.tionally • could be called in question. In a former stage of the negociation, the subject of impressment had tormed a subject of discussion ; but it was never till the mo- ment at which war was declared, that this was put forth as that which must be given up to America, or war commence between the two countries— but this was the length to which America nnw went. The blockade of 1806 was no longer in force—the Orders in Council were nowrevoked—and now it was said, we will continue the war unless this also is conceded, nor unless this were virtually assented to, would they even consent to an armistice, as appeared from the letter of Mr. Munroe to Admiral Warren. The No- ble Lord now proceeded to describe what had passed between himself and Mr. Russell. Au objection might have been made to opening any negociation with Mr. Russell, as he was in possessi of nothing to give the character of an accredited diplomatic agent. Unwilling, however, to raise a difficulty cas a mere question of form, this had been waved. Mr. Russell stated, that the conditions required by his Government for the conclusion of an armistice were these ? That the blockade should cease to be is force, that the Orders in Council should be revoked, and the practice of impressment should be suspended.— These be was instructed to require, but he had an further instructions from his Government. When he (Lord C.) bad asked what was to be understood by art American subject and a British subject, and whether men naturalized in America were to be con sidered as absolved from their allegiance to England? He frankly acknowledged that he had no instructions on these points. In fine, he had not received from his Government instructions to carry on a five nutes discussion. He gave some opinions of his own, but none which he ( Lord C.) had reason to think were those of his Government ; and when he asked if he (Mr. Russell) had no project to present ? His answer was s , No, he had not." Under these cir cumstances the negociation could not proceed, as America could not be bound by any arrangement concluded with such an agent. From past ripe. rience, Ministers had learnt the necessity of being cautious in their negociations with America. He had generally found a disposition on the part of those concerned in it to think too lightly of the ques tion .relative to the practice of impressing British sea. men fi ern American ships. He had thought he did his duty, and that he acted the part of a peace maker, when he told Mr. Russell what his ideas were on that subject, and represented it to be of little compa rative importance to America, but of great moment to England. That which he had communicated to Mr. Russell in confidence, had been made more use of by the American Government than ought to have been made of it ; and when a discussion on this sub. ject was entertained, or a project received by the Eng lish Government, the American Government had been too much in the habit of thinking this country on the point of acceding to their demands. This seas the ease in 1803, when the subject during the Admi nistration of Lord Sidmouth was first taken into con sideration. Mr. King then wrote home to his Go vernment that he had every reason to believe it would soon be settled, but when the project which lisd been approved by Earl St. Vincent and Lord Liverpool+ . came before the Law O ffi ce r s, they gave it as the:r decided opioi-n, that it could not be by any mese; carried into effect. In 1806, the discussion of this subject was renewed between Lords Holland, A JCL.- land, and Mr. l'inkney, and Mr. Munroe. T:-.ree ferentpcjets were produced in the course of drat re gociation by the American Ministers; but after the most extended deliberation, the two Noblu Lord+ were obliged to declare each of theirpojeer inadmis‘ sible, and to di ve it as their opinion, that the treat, .must go to its conclusion, without having any thir g in l it on the subject of impre ss ment. This de contended, was not a question easytobes l et rf t e le o d r . e :t, was not one which ought to be discussed in a sta , co f . war, or under an armistice, nor was it to be .coreete by a threat of war being held over our heads. — Though an imp - Ttant question to England, it was net so to America, at; was proved by one circumstances which was this :—All the maritime States of An!: rica, which really contained American seamen , vc• men would be seized if the statement of their vernment were true, were strongly against die If the statements alluded to were true. in wha t r"; ts3rt i dotintry ; but mil jit ibeakit r oal at tititiff ras a cala the 4 new If, hciiieirti • tbey R itratide, our 1 Int. that doll ' • ilsotrwience to d the next gr l / 2 -.t*otpet. KAW ca strict Ives engaged In *Wax tirli) Modify it ii des founded on consi- always been man importance, that the the measures ne 1Mm..... ef hi F ° 11101itl the Con tensic most Sri if the telly r • eVi hr bri MI the t of th sat do tzpre Sera! skuat in rho Room bad e 3 comm which that ri Anieri Lord, the of thes adverse 'the rev tidy t o Nob s a i did no' inanifel count' y Ward tc *post st i Lord h Orders i bad bee ' the two *ere tht COIVICrt4 Council. 'these Wily en wt's tion, the th e p robe lit tc though ;14 - s h ed i n ad c( 414PCieitte 4 - ;~' wh lieu Mt lbe ' M Mil Iwo lis b caul