Star. — London, England, 1830-05-22 00:00:00

TTENC3 PAPERS. Tram the Moniteur of Thursday. (OFFICIAL PART.) REPORT TO THE KING. - - not Majesty, always attentive to the prosperity of •:r.te cc, the progrtss of commerce and of manufactures, the means *t*f.:outing them, of increasing and improving the communications ort , seto the sever al parts of your kingdom, has thought that the .rnr.,lsc given to public works did not answer to this state of pros ?ern., to those improvements, and that it was checked by forms of administration too timid — by excess of precaution, which does nct leave su ffi cient ind ependence to such undertakings, or a sufficiently . free access to capital, and the employment of it; that it was requisite to put these essential parts of the public service in Etamonv with the necessities of the present time, with the spirit of oar institutions, in older to unite more and more closely the inte. rests of individuals with the general interest, is a commence of esutichs, of advantages profitable to the first, and unless beneficial to the tecoad, by lightening the obligations and the burdens of the state. Your Majesty, impressed with these observations, and persuaded that the Minister of the Interior, too much en in affairs of the bigliest order, cannot pay sufficient attention Z ia :L e :measures which t would be useful to adopt in order to obtain the results which you Impose ; that such ameliorations cannot be effected by the most en. lightened seal of subordinate officers, whose situation is, perhaps, not su fficiently devoted wholly to comprehend and to vanquish the difficul .tiett,has resolved to establish a department of public works,which unit ing in one hand, invested with the necessary authority, the administra tion of the works, enterprises, and concessions, relative to the high says.ronds, streets, canals, now navigable or not navigable; the mines, .I,tarrie., civil edifices, &c. will submit these several branches of the public service to tl:c sante impulse; and, besides the advantages already considered, will give opportunity to profit for their mutual interest of the relations that exist between them, of the conception, the information, the asssistance, which may result. (The report then proceeds to 5h....w that this desirable object will not cause any additional expense to the State.) I have therefore the honour to propose to your Majesty the an nexed Royal Ordnance. The President of the Council of Ministers, • 4 t Cloud, May 19, 1830. PRINCE DE POLIGNAC. ORDONNANCE OF THE KING. 1. Charles, &c. We have ordained, &c. Art. 1. Shall be separated from the department of the Interior, :o form a particular department, under the title of Department of Pubic Wor.ra, the branches of Administration which compose the general direction of bridges, highways, and mines, as well as those relative to the rivers and streams not navigable, civil edifices, the embellishment of the towns, and all other works of that description. 2. The President of the Council of Ministers and the Minister of ete Interior are charged with the execution of the present Onion. given at St. Cloud, the 19th day of May, 1839, the tkh year of our reign. CHARLES. By the King. The President of the Council of Ministers, I L Charles, &e. PRINCE DE POLIGNAC. An. 1. The Sieur Chantelause, First President of our Royal Tri bural at Grenoble, is appointed Keeper of the Seals, Minister Secre tary of State for the Department of Justice. 2. The Sicur Baron tie Montbcl, Minister of the Interior, is ap. pointed Minister of Finance. 3. Our well.beloved and faithful Count de Peyronnet, Peer of France, is appointed Minister of the Interior. 4. The Sieur Baron Capelle, Prefect of the Seine and Oise, is ap. pointed Minister of the Public Works. 111. Charles, &.c. Art. 1. The general direction of the bridges, highways, and mines is suppressed The Sieur Becquey, Director of that department, is permitted to retire. 2. Sieur Becquey, Councillor of State, is appointed Minister of State, and Member of our Privy Council. IV. and V. Charles, &c. Art. 1. Are appointed Ministers of State, and Members of our Privy Council, the Sieurs Courvoisier Count de Bertier, Direc tor.Cleneral of the Forests; Baron de Balainvilliers, Councillor of State. All these ordonnances are dated May 19, and countersigned by Prince Polignac. GERMAN PAPERS. LONDON, MAT 6. Private Correspondence of the Allgenteine Zritung. In continuation of my last communication, I send you the fol. lowing protocol, with the supplements : Protocol of the Conference held at the Porei3n-o f fice, Feb. 26, 1830. --- Present—The Plenipotentiaries of France, Great Britain, and Russia. The sitting of to-day has been employed on the forms in which the arrangements of the protocol of the 20th of Feb. shall be com. municated, comfermably to the clause in that act, to the Ottoman Porte, as well as the provisional Government of Greece. The Ple nipotentiaries have agreed to follow on this occasion the form al ready adopted by them, for the communication to be made by them to the two parties intended, of the principal Protocol of the 3d Fe. brury, 1830 ; and they have in consequence drawn up the instruc tions (A. and B.) annexed to the present protocol, to be sent simul taneously to the representatives of the alliance at Constantinople, and to their residents in Greece. Signed ABERDEEN. MONTMORENCY LAVAL. LIEVEN. Appendis A. to the Protocol of the Conferences of the 26th of February, 1830. Instructions to the Three Plenipotentiaries at Constantinople. The three annexed protocols inform your Excellencies of the sup plementary measures adopted in the conferences for the accomplish ment of the work of peace, the principal bases of which are con. tained in the protocol of Feb. 3. Of these three documents, the first two contain the motives which have induced the Allied Courts to offer the sovereignty of Greece to his Royal Highness Prince Leopold of Saxe Coburg, as well as the proposals addressed to him with this view by the Plenipotentiaries. The third contains the assent of that Prince, and the answer given by the Plenipotentiaries to the wishes with which his Royal Highness accompanied that acceptance. The protocols in question, Sir, are intended for your perusal and information only. But the three Ca. binets have thought proper that these respective Plenipotentiaries at Constantinople should communicate to the Porte the arrangement re. specting the choice of the Prince selected to govern the new state. You will, therefore, Sir, join with your colleagues, the Ambassadors of —, and of—, to notify to the Divan that the choice of the Al. Hance has fallen on Prince Leopold of Saxe Coburg ; and the three Cabinets hope that the Porte will see in this choice a new proof of the care which they rate to give to its future relations with Greece a so lid guarantee. There is another important object forming one of the articles of the last protocol, to which the three Plenipotentiaries will have to call the attention of the Porte. Though the Isles of Candle and Samos are not included within the boundaries of the new state, and are to remain independent of it, the Allied Powers, not. withstanding, think themselves bound to insure to their inhabitants security against the molestation which they might experience atom the Porte, on account of the part which they may have taken in the preceding troubles. The three cabinets are happy in believing that the Ottoman Porte, in its enlightened wisdom, will be convinced, that considering the bonds of affinity and religion which unite the Greeks of these islands to the new state, a mild and equitable go. vernment is the surest means to maintain its dominion over them on a solid foundation.--Appendis B. to the Protocol of Feb. 26, 1830. Instructions to the three Residents of the Allies in Greece. I have the honour to transmit to you the three annexed prow. cols, to acquaint you with the supplemetary means adopted for the accomplishment of the work of peace, the principal bases of which are laid down in the protocol, No. 1, dated Feb. 3, this year. Of these three documents the first two contain the models which have induced the alliance tooffer to Prince Leopold of Saxe Coburg the Sovereignty of Greece, and the proposals which have been made to him in consequence ; the third shows the assent of his Royal Highness, and the resolutions taken in consequence of the wishes that Prince expressed on announcing his acceptance. 'These protocols arc intended for your personal information ; but you I I will have, Sir, to communicate without delay to the provisional go. vernment of Greece, the important arrangements decided by those acts, which deeply Interest the future destiny of the country. You will, therefore, first of all, conjointly with youttolleagues sr. and st. announne to it that the choke of the Alliance has fallen on Prince I Leopold of Saxe Coburg. The personal character of the Prince, and the place he holds in Society, have appeared to the three Powers to offer all the guarantees that tie be desired. They hope, there fore, that the will recalls him as their Sov ere i gn w i t h peks gratitude, and they will lie in this choice a new proof of the good will the ARUM towards them. The solicitude of this the three powers towasda this not confined to the, present ma went. It is with a view tel an additional support to the a u . tensity which is going ID them, th at the 4th and sth clauses of ell last prowal framed. The residents of the three Court. , . endued to *quaint the Provisional Government with eh' 0 ., areangemeat. They will add, that till the ar. I rival of . 4 , Is othece, the relations between the pre- I sent • . .v et that etaantry and the Alliance will remain in the footing at at this mentent.—SsipplenneW to the Ailge *Nee 1" sgoVapMl). a IMPER I !IA PARIAAM ENT. HOUSE OF LORDS—FRIDAY. PETITIONS—SPIRIT DUTIES. The Earl of HARDWICKE presented a petition from Wig. loon, aping( the proposed duty on foreign spirits. The Duke of DEVONSHIRE, a petition from Waterford, against hitt duty on Irish spirits. WELCH JUDICATURE. Earl GROsVENOR, a petition from the High Sheriff and Grand Jury of tile county of Flint, against alteration of the Welch Judicature. ASSESSED TAXES. The Earl of DENBY presented a petition from Liverpool, com plaining of the mode of levying assessed taxes. PRIVATE BILLS. Mr. MvstDr, and otlieimenierifr;n the Commons, brought up several private bills. STAMPS. Lord HOLLAND presented a petition from the London Literary and Scientific Institution, praying for the repeal of the tax on news. papers. Also a petition from journeymen pintas of Liverpool, to' the same effect. Lord CLARE presented a petition from Limerick, against the Irish stamp duties. Also one from the City of Limerick, to the same effect. SLAVICAL The noble baronet likervisePresen --- ted petitions from Stroud, in Gloucestershire, and Wakefield, for the abolition of negro slavery. PROTESTANT SOLDIERS. The Earl of WINCHELSEA presented a petition from the free barons and other inhabitants of Dover, complaining that Protestant soldiers abroad in the army were forced against their will to assist in the religious ceremonies of the Catholic and Greek church. The petitioners claimed a law to prevent the practice which they as mem. bent of the Church of England could not view sithout alarm. The noble earl expressed a wish to know whether it was the in. tentinn of the noble duke to give the relief sought for by the petitioners ? the Duke of wELLiNGTON said he would answer the noble earl after the petition had been read. The petition was accordingly read by the clerk at the table. The Duke of IVELLINGTON said there was a great fallacy in the petition. Many of the statements thercir. he knew to be ground. The Earl of \VINCHELSEA did not enter into the merits of, the matter ; but could not avoid saying, that any practice in the army of forcing Protestants to assist in Roman Catholic service and ceremonies, trust be painful to their feelings. Lord Lo It TON preunted a petition from Castle Blaney, signed by 1,300 persons, against the Grand Jury pesentments. AYE lIARIIOI7I Lord MELVILLE rose on the order for the second reading of this bill, and declared his intention to oppose it, on the ground that it would injure the harbour of Rye. The Earl of F.LDON also declared his Intention to oppose it. Lord TEYNHAM said the bill, though a private measure, would apply to a deal of valuable property. Lord RADNOR observed that the merits of the bill had been discussed in the House of Commons before a committee, which de cided in &lOUr of the bill. Lord HOLLAND said evidence had been taken on both sides, and the only question was, whether the noble lord intended to move the second reading auto bill. Lord RADNOR said he should move the second reading. Lord AIELVILLE declared hia intention to oppose it in the Committee. The Bill was then rcad a second time. SUITS IN EQUITY BILL. The Earl of ELDON rose, on the order for the second reading of the Suits in Equity Bill. The LORD CHANCELLOR rose at the same time, and said it was not his intention to proceed to the third reading without giving notice. Lord ELDON said, he was glad to hear the Lord Chancellor did not read the bill a third time, because he knew it was impossible to carry the bill into effect without passing other bills. He had no object in opposing the bill but what arose from due regard to the administration of justice. He should be glad to assist in any mea sure conducive to the administration of justice, and was ready to communicate with the noble and le a rn e d lord, for the purpose of doing that which was necessary obe done. He was sure nothing to be done with the bill before the house had decided what must be done with other bills. The LORD CHANCELLOR, in consequence of the made by his noble and learned friend, had not pressed for ward the measure. He was sure there could not be found an indi vidual in the county better qualified than his noble friend, to give information on all that relates to the laws, and the due administra tion of justice. His noble and learned friend had said he would communicate with him, in order to legislate upon that which was good in the bill, and he thought he should not do justice to himself, or promote the Interests of the public, if lie did not meet his noble and learned friend for that purpose. He proposed the second read. ing of the bill should be postponed to Monday, or some other day, which might suit his noble and learned friend, in order to carry into effect some other measure which might be considered necessary, with a view to the due administration of equity. The Earl of ELDON said Tuesday would be convenient. The bill was consequently ordered to be read a second time on Tuesday next. EAST RETTORD BILL. The Marquis of SALISBURY having moved the order for further proceedings on this bill, counsel were called in, and wit. nesses examined until the usual hour of adjournment. HOUSE OF COMMONS—FRIDA Y. Mr. O'CONNELL moved the third reading of the Graders (Ireland) Steam Navigation Bill. Mr. HUSKISSON opposed the second reading, as the bill was calculated to give a monopoly. Mr. O'CONNELL said there wiui one incorporated Steam Com pany already, and the present bill would go some way in breaking up the monopoly. The bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed. General AHCHDALL presented a petition from the county of Fermanagh, against the introduction of poor laws into Ireland ; and a petition from a newspaper proprietor in Enniskillen, against any increase in the stamp duty on newspapers. Mr. SAUNDEIISON presented a petition from the county of Cs.an, against the introduction of poor laws into Ireland. Mr. HUSKISSON presented a petition from Liverpool, for the repeal of the duty on houses and windows. Mr. CUItTEIS presented a petition from Sussex, for the repeal of the duty on malt ; and a petition from the hop.planters of bus. sex, for arepeal of the duty on hops. iord GEORGE BENTINCK presented a petition from Cam. bridgeshire, against the Beer Bill. Mr. Alderman THOMPSON presented a petition from the soap manufacturers of Londot., for a repeal of the duty on soap, which amounts to 100 per cent. Mr. SYKES supported the prayer of the petition. Colonel WALPOLE presented a petition from Chemists and Druggists, against any increase of the stamp duty on medicine. Sir JAMES GRAHAM presented a petition from Cumberland, praying that Scotch and Irish paupers may be removed by bison ; and that the expense might be borne by the parishes from which they should be removed. 111 r. 110BHOUSE presented a petition from the Pariah of St. James, Westminster, against the bill for the removal of Irish pau pers at the sole expense of the parishes from which they should be removed. He had no objection to the saving of expenses by the use of steam. Mr. O'CONNELL was sorry to see so little sympathy for the Irish poor. The project of getting rid of them by steam appeared be in great favour. If the bill before the house should pass into a law, it would repeal the present law, and bring into an operation an old law, which enacted that Irish paupers should be whipped before they were sent home. Mr. GORDON moved for a return of the salaries and emoluments of all persons holding offices in the Exchequer, except the judicial offices.—Ordered. Lord STANLEY presented a petition from the calleoprinters of Lancaster and other places against the employment of apprentices. Mr. HUM E moved for a return of all the officers of the Court of Chancery, with the amount of their salaries and emoluments, and an account of all the causes at present pending in the Court of Chan. eery. The object of the motion was to show the present cost of the Court of Chancery, that the public might judge whether it could be necessary to add to that cost by the appointment of new officers.— The motion was agreed to. Mr. HUME presented a petition from Brechin, for a reduction of the stamp duties. Mr. O'CONNELL presented a petition from Youghall, againbt the Vestry Act, and similar petitions from Skibbereen, Lower Glen. mire, and Innialtannon, in the county of Cork, and the parish of Bt. Paul and St. Ann, in the city of Cork. Mr. RUMBOLD presented a petition front Great Yarmouth for the continuance of the bounty on the herring fishery. Mr. W. PEEL brought up a return of the number of convictions for forgery, pursuant to an order of the house, and a return of the number of churches and chapels ht England and Scotland. SUPPLY: On the motion that the sum of 21,1361. be granted to defray the expenses of the Penitentiary, at Milbank, being put, Mr. HUME complained of the enormous expenses of that orta blishment. On its original foundation, it was Weeded for the or. eommodulon of 1,000 persons. New, after a trial of 17 years, be wished to knew If the right hon. gentleman eonaidentioualy believed that the benefits derived from it lad realised the public expect*. tion, and whether he thought that the public should be charged with such a burden ; or if a more economical plan could not be pur sued. Every individual on that establishment cost the public 891. a-year. If such an expense were contemplated at its origin, the proposal for the foundation of such an establishment would have been scouted. The 600 inmates of this establisment cost the coun. tty more for medical attendance than a regiment of 1,000 men. The question was not as to the expense, but whether we were not injuring the country by supporting such an establishment. The inmates of this prison did more injury in contaminating the pub. lie morals than could be compensated by the diference of the ex pense between sending them to the colonies, and keeping them in this Penitentiary. Those who were a nuisance to society when kept here, became useful members of society when sent to the colonies. Government had no occasion to spend one shilling on convicts after they bad landed them in New South Wales, for they could easily get employment there. It was extravagant to expend 130,0001 a-year in maintaining them ; no person could get a labourer or servant in New South Whales unless by the consent of the Governor, which was no trifling patronage. The convicts were sent there a t the ex. rue of the public, and afterwards made subjects of patronage to the Governor. This system of management should be reformed, and convened to the public advantage. The hon. member then complained of the mode in which females were treated in Botany Bay ; experience showed that females who were considered old in this country were young there.—(laughter.) He considered it her. manity to send females to that country, :rather than to prisons at home. The benefit which society would derive from thence would more than compensate for the extra expense thereby incurred. On these grounds he objected to the continuance of this establishment. Sir R. PEEL, felt the importance of the subject. He considered it as connected with that of secondary punishment ; the more pub lic opinion was directed to such institutions, the more he was pleased, as it gave hint an opportunity of hearing the opinions of others on subjects on which be himself entertained some doubt. In reply to the hon. member, he would say that, if the question was whether a Penitentiary should be now established, he (Sir Robert) would hesitate before he should consent to it ; but as that institu. den had been now established, he would prefer voting for the item, rather titan accede to the suggestions of the hon. Member. The superintendence of this establishment was not in the Se cretary of State, as supposed by the hon. member, but by a gover. nor appointed by the crown, subject to the control of the Privy Council. He (Sir liobert) did not see why the superintendence of all Institutions where convicts were kept should not be in one body. He thought that some reductions might be made in the expenses of that establishment, but he did not consider the salary of the overseer too much, considering his respectability. There was a great advantage in having a person of high character in that office. There is a Cont. mittee at present occupied in inquiring into that establishment, and no doubt they will point out all the reductions that can, consistently with its welfare, be made in it. It was itupos. Bible to act on the suggestion of the hon member, to transport every offender, and if they were not transported they must return again to society, or else be itnptisoned for life. How many young females, who, after having been imprisoned for a thort time for a minor offence, became worthy membets of society. The ex pense of the last year for the support of the convicts in the Peni. tentiary amounted to 70,0001. whilst the produce of their labour has been 67,5471. so that there has been but little deficiency. After some remarks upon the number of convicts at Bemtuda who were employed in public works, Sir R. alluded to a pamphlet which had recently appeared from the pen of Mr. liolford. Ile regretted that a work from the pen of that gentleman should have issued, contahing the monstrous propositions this book did. He was, on the one hand, found fault with by the hon. member for Abtrdeen for sending, out of the country the female convicts, whilst, on the other hand, Mr. Holford condemned him for not sending all the females away. He could assure the hon. member that the office of Secretary of State for the Horne Department was not a very enviable one. He had, foe reasons well known to the house, and which he should not mention further than by saying it was to put a stop to the increase of* growing evil, sent over to New South Wales a large number of female convicts. Bermuda was particularly suited for the pur poses of transportation. It was said that a convict, on arriving at New South Woks, was enabled to support himself in a very excellent and contlottable manner. He hoped that ere long some arrange. ment would be made to enable the government to impose a heavy punishment on such convicts who went over to New South Wales, as conducted themselves improperly. He trusted an inquiry would be set on foot into the system ; and if it was thought desirable to transport all the convicts, he should not make the slightest objec tion, the mote particularly as it was considered likely to be attended with advantage to the principles of economy. With respect to the vote under consideration, he could assure the house that thc esta blishment was undergoing investigation, with a vew to a judicious reduction. Colonel DAVIES was anxious that an inquiry should take place into the whole system of prison discipline. Sir 0. MURRAY defended the system pursued with respect to the convicts, as one attended with advantage to this country, as well as to those colonies to which they were sent. Mr. NI ABERLY considered the hulks far preferable to the Penitentiary. The expense of the present system was too extrava gant. The country ought not to be subjected to it. The hon. gen. damn then went into a long detail of the particulars of the expense. He objected to the governor of a prison being paid 6001. a year, when the pay of a general officer was but 4001. He thought this vote was too large. He hoped the committee, when appointed, would recom. mend its reduction. Sir R. PEEL said the committee appointed some years ago upon this subject, had recommended that the salary should be of the amount which was now given. He had had some difficulty in pro. curing an Individual possessedsof such talent and qualifications as he considered necessary for a person filling that situation. Mr. W. HORTOI% thought the system of emigration would be attended with advantage. Mr. ROSS said the expense of this prison had been much less this year than before. _ _ _ Mr. HUME complained of the system of management. There were 74 persons employed in the management of this establishment. There was the Gaolers Secretary, forsooth, with a salary of 4001. per annum. The ides of a gaoler having a secretary, was rather, he thought, too much. Sir T. FREEMANTLE thought the establishment of Peniten. tiaries throughout the country might be attended with advantage. He defended the system. Sir T. BARING made a few observations, which war.: no: en. tire] y distinct In the gallery. Mr. HUME said it was requisite that they should be accurate. Now on making the calculation, he found that the expense for each prisoner amounted to 321. 10s. The vote wu then agreed to. The house then resumed, and Sir A. GRANT brought up the re. port of the Committee. BALE OF lEEE. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the order of the day for the house to resolve itself into& committee on the sale of beer bill. On the motion that the Speaker do leave the Chair, Mr.HOLDSWORTH begged to say he wished that cyder should be put on the same footing. Mr. MUNCK rose, and said a few words which were Inaudible. The SPEAKER said that if the hon. gentleman wished to move an instruction to the Committee, he would inform him that It was unnecessary. The House then went into a Committee. Ant the clause relative to the fieenWsWing read, Mr. lIIONCK said that the licensing system was a preventive one, and not of a corrective nature. The common law said that no man should sell beer unless he had a good character, but this bill said that any man should have a licence. (The hon. member, in consequence of the great noise in the house, and his own occasional low tone of voice, was frequently indistinct.) We understood him to object to the proposed alteration in the system, and uphold the old one. He contended that, were the proposed measure passed, it would lead to a general ruin of those who had embarked their all in their several establishments. Many of the publicans bad been gentlemen's servants, and had entered into this line of business, vesting the whole of their life's savings, all of which, were this bill to pass, would be lost. This measure carried the thing to too great an extent. He would move as an amendment on this clause a resolution, which would tend to do away with this threatened evil. He objected Wallowing every man to sell beer on his premises. The brewers did not wish to have the beer con sumed on their premises, neither did private shopkeepers who might take out licenses, wish to have their private houses thrown into pub lic-houses. His clause would also protect the shopkeeper from the malicious informadons of informers. The hon. member then moved a clause, to the arid that all persons obtaining licenses under the new Act should not he at liberty to allow it to be consumed on the premises; and that those who did do so should be obliged to take our their licenses according to the 9th of Geo. 4. Sit T. GOOCH had at first been of opinion that the repeal of this tax was the best which could be made ; he had, however, since consulted his Mother magistrates, and he was now convinced that it would be attended with considerable inconvenience. He was a friend to a free trade in beer, but he thought they ought to have slime oontroul over it: he meant, that the magistrates ought to have some controul over the licenses. He would the Wore suggest, whs. then It would not answer the purpose, were the clause first by the hoe. member for Headin g to b e tr i e d for two years. Pr = of opinion that it might be adopted in that manner with great ad vantage to the country. Should it, however, be found, after the two years' trial, that the end was not answered, then they could but 3: , revert to the new plan. He threw o u t thi s suggestion, ; hoping that it t have the effect of calling general attention to that point in . Mr. SLA HY, alter a few preliminary observations, said that it bad boa land dim the camumption of barley and of malt bad ow- dim* dbmbilisd, sad it bad ososequauly boss domed requisite rittiwleassedvierTo.byterntadt:trle,atonhcitsa:4;..... co to n i l n p q ,,n u i l e re d in w t i o th th r e es e were loaded with duty and reetrictimis—alicar, hear . )—i t art l : " restriction, of when n f rest on. There was the heavy duty on malt , which ne‘vr. facture. Then there was the on bee ' . Not on te how ever, which was ronsutned by duty the rich e and powerful h but that which was d ran k as a means o f sustenance by th poor a tea bouring chines. T them That beer which was d ran k by e as a supp ose under the he av i ness en d fatigues of manual l a b our . (Ifr - hear.) The rich man was allowed t o escape from this a: but the pool man who could not aff or d t o b uy the brewing ut a. was compelled to pay this exorbitant and unprincipled burden (Hear, hear.) Then, aga i n , th ere were restr i ctions on retailina -- beer y the licensing system. The on l y mo d e o f preventing :eti,'` nopoly In any trad e or b us i ness , was to afford all persons pirate's: such business equal advantages. The proposition of the lion yea of the amendment would do away in a great measure with substantial advantages of the bill. If this amendment sa carried, it would confer on the public no greater advantag e than they now had : for the retail brewer might se ll a , much as he pleased on the premises at present. Twoallit of the malt liquor consumed was consumed on the premises e 7. which it was sold ; so that if a consumption on the premises al , prohibited, the public would derive but little advantage from th. bill. With respect to the morality of the subject, he maintai ned that all the disorder and immorality consequent on tippling, n os ,. from the drinking of spirits, and not from drinking beer. Tice hos member here concluded, by thanking the Chancellor of the Excite. quer for the liberality he evinced in bringing forward this measure. Mr. BARCLAY observed, that so far from the brewers benefit. ing by the reduction which had taken place heretofore in the wad duties they were losers by it. If the p ro p ose d re d uct i on of Ss , in the ba rrel were carried into effect, it would be a saving to the public of 12s. in the barrel. lie denied that tee re sa. any rush thing as a , understanding between the London brew tr. :mil the spirit mer. chants. There was not a stronger advoeate for a free trade in bee. than himself. The freer the trade was the better for the Lora s brewer. He was aware, as stated by some hon. members, that Oh great capital of the London brewers gave them great advantages, s• the same time he was not ignorant that this measure must opera, oppressively on many individuals who bad vested large capital in as trade. Before the committee it appeared that one individual Isa 22,8001. vested in 10 houses in London, another 10,0001. sada. 6,1)001. and several others having similar investments. He weals ask the house if tonic ri.odification should not be adoseed, fur a . purpose of relieving those who were likely to suffer from this tie knew that a small sum would satisfy those victuallers, and he put it to the sense of the house, if they should not receive some cote. pcusation, if the bill should pass into a law in its preseut state. Mr. WaSTEItN was decidedly opposed to the amendment, a , destructive of the benefits of the bill. The great object of the bill was to deprive the magistrates ,of that despotic power which they ' possessed over licences. lie did not mean to say but that Wits amendments should be made in the bill as it now stood. Ur would be extremely sorry to see any of those evil consequences re. suit front the bill which some members apprehended ; but he had no dread of such evil consequences. With respect to the ir. wrest which brewers and licensed victuallers had in houses, h. begged to say that their interest in those houses depended on aa discretion of the magistrates. who might refuse to grant a licera when they pleased. He knew of a borough where the magistrate, took it into their head to reduce the number of public houses. err.' accordingly refused licences to many. What became of the rest vested in these houses then ? The present bill would do awa) with the control of the magistrates, so that the Interest in house! would not in future depend on the whim of individuals. For reasons, and because he felt that it would redound to the pall: good, lie should support the bill. Sir E. SNATCH BULL wished to know if it was the inti.mix. of ministers to make any alterations in the present shape of the 11::: He (Sir Edward) had made up his mind what course to pursue, he wished to reserve himself until he learned if it was the inter--. of ministers to make any alteration or not. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCH EQUER considered the pro posed amendment a direct infraction of the principles of this bill. The only difference it would make in the present system would be, L.) change the license from live to two guineas. If the amendment were carried, it would deprive the public of all the proposed advantages e: the bill. He maintained that the proposed hill was only a neva tion of the common law license, which permitted every p e r son t o d ea l in any trade he pleased, without any restriction. lie was aware that the publicans would suffer by this measure ; but when their loss was compared with the good which the public would derive from it, it could not for one moment stand in the way of the bill The publicans and brewers had many ;advantages over any (irkr persons who should embark in the trade, for they. being established In the business, knew better how to conduct it with advantage. Taa. would have their customers, and other advantages. which new con.. petitors would not have. Let it be permitted to sell beet free from restrictions, and he (the Chancellor of the Esehe. quer) would take care to Introduce into the bill such amend. meats as would prevent the peace or morals of the community from being injured. He should propose that the person licensed should be householder, and give a bond with two sureties to pay any Gnu that might be inflicted on him. He should not altos one publican to be a surety for another, so that they could not plan into each other's hands. These, with the other mtrictiora the bill contained, would ensure to the public a cheap Nana. without any danger to the peace of the community, as soe.. honourable members seemed to apprehend. The right he:.. Gentleman again adverted to the amendmenawith a view to show that it would thwart the object of the bill. He then read sort resolutions agreed coat a meeting of the licensed victualkes March last, pointing out the few advantages which had been ta. rived from the permission to sell intermediate beer, and informs from thence that the public could not benefit from throwing open the trade in beer. The right bon. gentleman perfectly agreed sr with the publicans, that very little advantage had been derived fur the permission to sell beer, but not to consume it on the prenii.L• and that was a strong argument against the amendment ; for it only giving permission to consume it on the premises alone that sr.! advantage could be derived from It. For these, and other masons,. should oppose the amendment, at the tame time he would peas, such clauses as would guard against the evil consequences so mai . apprehended. Mr. ESTCOURT was an advocate for a free trade In beer; if the Chancellor of the Exchequer acceded to the suggestions a honourable gentlemen proposing restrictions upon licensed houses then the bill before the house would be anything but a bill giving a free trade in beer. If the amendment wire carried, he should per. pose that the beer should not Ise drank within 100 yards of the pre mises.—(Laughter.) He admitted that the proposition was an ah. surd one; but he thought that it was the only method of mee:ir the clause proposed by the honourable member for Reading. Mr. CRI PPS considered that the beer bill, in its present shape. would, if it posed, be a great nuisance. Mr. MABERLY said if the Hon,. Member for Reading woula propose any limited period in his clause, say five years, to enable the publicans to get out of their business, he should vole fer tl.e clause. He was an advocate for the principle of the bill, but he was not for shutting out the publicans from all chance of getting out o: their business without incurring great lam He deprecated ti.: licensing system, which he considered to be both dangerous arc bad. But Parl iament recognised that system, and passed an Act support of it two years ago. Upon the faith of this Act of Paths- ' meat publicans embarked their property, and it would be beet far to afford them an opportunity of getting out of business with as little loss as possible ; and he was therefore an advocate for inscruce a limited period in the hon. member's clause, before persons war: allowed to drink on the premises. Mr. COLBURN considered that parliament would not be dealing fairly by the public, if it admitted any restrictions into the bill be- fore the house. He would support the bill as now brought lentos. but perhaps next year it would be advisable to modify some of clauses. Mr. F. BUXTON said that the brewers would certainly benent by the proposed measure t but the publicans would be very gnat losers by it. He contended that the public were not anxious for a tree trade in beer: for where were their petitions to show their feelirg • Several hundred petitions, however, were presented against the prins ciple. He deprecated throwing open a trade, by which persons et every character, and of no character, would be allowed to sell beer. Mr. HUSKISSON was an advocate for the measure, because it would do away with the system, which was an evil of great magnitude, and whi ch increase, if it were allowed to continue. Mr. BROUGHAM begged to set an hon. member right with respect to a bill which he introduced upon this subject six or seven years ago, and which was lost. He admitted that he allowed a clause prohibiting s from drinking on the premises to be in serted in his bill. cat w hy did hew? Because he knew that with out such a clause at that time, he would have had no chance with his bill. He however strongly protested against the clause at the time. Lord MILTON said that the Chancellor of the Exchequer ought to make the house acquainted with the entire nature of the bill be. fore they were called upon to vote in favour of it. The right bon. gentleman admitted that various alterations would be made in du bill. The house could not therefore come to a fair decision without that information. Mr. IiION6IE replied. 81r E. KNATCHBULL, although favourable to the chute. thought it ought to be withdrawn, until the bill came before the house in its amended shape. If however the clause was not with. drawn, he should vote Air it. After a few words from Lord MILTON, the house divided, when the sambas were— For the motion llB AgainMajst t ority against the Clause . 26