Star. — London, England, 1830-02-05 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, FRB. 4. At one o'clock the doors were to those who had obtained Peers' orders. That Portion of opened d ouse below the her devoted to the sons of Peers and foreigners of distinction. was by no means crowded. _ _ There was a thin attendance of Peers. The Commission for holding Parliament, with that appointing the Lords Commissioners for opening the um*, having been read by the Clerk, The Loan Cataxcat.sos delivered the King's Speech, of which we gave a copy yesterday. The Commons then retired, and their Lordships adjourned.— At five o'clock their Lordships again met. Dawes, from the Hanaper Office, Ireland, presented at the bar the writ and return for the election of the Earl of GlOl4llll, as Representative Peer for Ireland, in the room of the Marquis of Headfort. The Duke of %Lummox snowed the first reading of the BSI for the regulation of Select Vestries, the Bill usually read at the cotnmeocement of each Session. The Bill was accordingly read a first time. THE ADDERS. 4 TO HIS MAJESTY. The LORD CHANCELLOR having read the Speech from the Woolsack, which was afterwards repeated by the clerk, The Duke of BUCCLEUCH (dressed in a military uni form) rose and spoke to the following effect :—My lords, in rising to move that an humble address, in answer to his majesty's most gracious speech, which has bean just now read, I am not unmindful of the difficulties Mick have to encowater *mapper, dr tlritalik.LMve plrso• taken, nor oftlay inability to do justice tie those import ant subjects contained in that gracious speech. It would be presumptuous, my lords, in one so young and inex perienced as I am, and who have bad the honour of a seat in your house for so short a period, to venture to give opitrions at length, or to enter into a discussion on the vserious topics contained in his majesty's speech. I shall, therefore, confine myself to each few obseriations and reasons as may occur to me, claiming, at the satire time, the indulgence of your lordships. (Hear, hear), feeling as I do that there never was more need of it than on the present occasion. • My lords, the strong assurances which his majesty has been pleased to in form us he still continues to receive from the dif ferent states of Europe, of their anxiety to maintain and cultivate the relations of peace with this country, mast be a subject of congratulation. We have, my lords, every prospect of the peace which for so many years we have enjoyed being lasting. My lords, this nation is too much involved in the generakintereste of Europe not to view with satisfaction the intelligence that peace has been established between Russia and the Ottoman Porte —that, therefore, the scene of warfare between these two neighbouring stated which bad so long existed, is happily terminated, must be a subject of satisfac tion; for who could contemplate the conflict carried on without fearing that the ravages of war might be ex tended to other states of Europe ? We cannot but hear, my lords, with satisfaction of his majesty's unremitting offices with his allies to carry into effect the treaty of the 6th of July, 1827. I trust, my lords, that you will think with me, that this is not the period to enter into the details on that topic of the speech, but that you will wait until his majesty shall think fit to make those dis closures respecting the measures carried on with his al lies as regards the situation of Greece. The measures are of great importance, and are intended to raise up a people who have been so long a time plunged into misery and ruin, and give to them a station which they have not enjoyed among the nations of Europe. With regard to Port ug al, my lords, it is impossible that we can view with indifference the proceedings there forward, considering towlot o te bass lations with that country. friendly relations must continue to be interesting to a country which for so long a period of time has been our ally. I trust that his ma jesty's exertions will effect a reconciliation between the two branches of the house of Braganca, and that the di plomatic relations which have been so long interrupted between the two countries will be again established. One of the most important questions which will come before your lordships is the revision of the courts of law, with a view of expediting and facilitating the course of justice in different parts of the united kingdom. Every one of your lordships, I am sure, will agree in the propo sition, that it is expedient some alteration should be made in the administration of justice. I feel convinced of the necessity of such a proceeding, more particularly as re spects the country with which I am more immediately con nected. I am sure a vast advantage will arise from expe diting the course of justice, and adopting laws adapted to the present day. No one, my lords, can be ignorant of, nor view with indifference, the distress which the agricultural and manufacturing classes are at present la bowing under in many parts of the country. I am not disposed to consider that the distresses now felt are so des perate, or so universal, as some have represented, or as other persons would wish to have it believed, nor do I think they will continue. But this is a subject of vast im portance for your lordships to consider, and one which requires great judgment and caution in your deliberations, but upon which Ido not now enter. I would fain hope my lords, that it is only a temporary distress which is felt, and that it will be alleviated and removed. In the consi.leration of this subject, we must give due weight to the two late unfavourable seasons which the agriculturiets have experienced. .T 6 the many difficulties with which they have had to contend, must be added the expending of their capital in getting in the harvest, which, when secured, proved so indifferent. I will not, however, my lords, enter into any detail ; it Is a subject of too vast importance to be discussed now, and one upon which I do not feel capable of entering were the details before you. But, my lords, although there is distress among the agri culturists and the manufacturers in parts of the country, have we not a subject of congratulation in the fact men tioned in his majesty's most gracious speech, that the ex port of British produce and manufactures during the last year has exceeded that of any former year? This, my lords, is surely a subject of congratulation, and I think warrants me in the coaclusion to which I have come, that the evils complained of are not deep rooted. Your lord ships are not ignorant that we have now the manufac tures of other countries to contend against. Formerly this was the only nation where manufactures were exten sively carried on. Now every nation is turning its atten tion to manufactures. We have, therefore„ to compete with foreign markets in our manufactured articles. My lords, I trust that whenever that measure to which I have adverted shall be brought forward its this house, your lordships will avoid any thing that may tend to show the people that we entertain apprehensions on tke sub ject. My lords, the population of *this country will na turally look to your lordships for example; and, there fore,when the discussion is brought forward, it should be our endeavour to encourage the people rather than dis hearten--to persuade them to cherish the expectation of their distresses being removed, rather thananduce them to suppose that they are—which assuredly they are not permanent. But whenever that measure, whatever it may be, shall be brought forward, I trust that we shall see nothing advanced which may cause to the public cre ditor any hazard of the public credit; or injure the cha raster which this nation had supported in more difficult -~_. ~ ~~ :1 N°• 13,390. /seasons. The noble duke concluded dress to his majesty, which was, speech. The address having been reed Lord SALTOUN, (who was uniform,) in rising to second all the arguments advanced by s. lady in what had been advanced relations. With respect to Turkey. thelnation did not directly affect this le of Wag- attended with L sliihicabed.edienerle f • e se favouiably. With ip thought.that in low sovereignty was vested in the of Braganca, but the Portuguese preferred the younger, and it was not for this country to interfere with other nations regarding what rulers they should have. His lordship felt satisfied that our relations with Portugal could not continue in their present state. In alluding to the expenditure of the country, his lordship felt much satisfaction in understanding that the retrenchment was equal to the falling off in the revenue, and that without impairing our military or naval establishments. There could be no doubt that great distress existed in the coun try, and perhaps it was singular that such distress should exist, considering the extent of our exportations. Some attributed it to over-production, others to a change in the currency ; various persons assigned various- causes for it, and also proposed various remedies; but, looking at them all, his lordship could not say what altogether were the causes ; nor did he think that in all the remedies proposed any could be found sufficiently efficient. In his opinion the distress arose from receiving small profits from much produce, or, in other words, during the war we had our own prices for all our own manufactures, our own ships, our own carriers, and everything our own way. Whim peace came, an improvement in machinery follo we d ; we ceased to ave the same profit. It was then first out manufacturers felt distress, and that was about 1820 behre the change in the currency had taken place, so Sat it could not arise from this last measure ; and though distress had continued down to this period, it could not be on account of the change in the currency, for similar distress prevailed in Scotland, where there was no restrie lion on the issuing of notes. When the question should come before the house, he would give it the best conside ration of which he was capable. His lordship concluded by seconding the address. Earl STANHOPI observed that, when this country was in a state of distress unequalled in extent, and intolerable in its pressure, it behoved that house to address the crows in language quite different from that which had been noW read. He weedd ask if the speech reed from the • was a real and true representation of the stabs of the country ? If it was any other speech than that of his majesty, he would say that a more inapt speech, or ass more full of misrepresentation, had never been written. His lordship here read that part of the speech which re lated to the state of the country, observing that, instead of " some parts," it should be stated in the speech that " every part" of the country was in distress. He would ask the noble duke at the head of his majesty's govern ment in what part of the country distress did not appear? To construe that speech in plain English it was this : " You are in great distress, but you must take great care not to try to get out of it. You have fallen into a river, but you must take care not to try to get oat, .or you will be worse :" (laughter.) When we see numerous causes productive of distress, how could the noble mover of the address say that our distress was only tem porary ? When we see clouds hanging over us. should we not fear the approach of a tempest ? No man could look on the state of the country without dismay. Yet the noble duke told us not to despond. He (Lord Stanhope) did not feel disposed to yield to despondency ; but this country would have reason to despond, if relief were not afforded in time. The language of the speech was•the less excusable, because the noble duke at the bead of his majesty's government was well acquainted with the ex tent of the distress of the country, having travelled much during the recess through different parts of it ; no doubt, for a different purpose, (laughter :) but still hi grace must have collected much from observation and from the county meetings, though formerly his grace was pleased to term county meetings a farce. He (Lord Stanhope) would point out some other meeting, not far from the place in which he now stood, whose proceedings bordered on a farce (laughter.) His grace had heard of the distress from the grand jury of the county in which he (Lord Stanhope) lived. Yet, notwithstanding all this, his grace promised nothing consolatory to the sufferings of the people. He (Lord Stanhope) regretted it, on account of the noble duke himself, who, having been placed on a pinnacle of glory to which no living man had ever attained, accepted the office of prime minister, and found the vessel of the state surrounded with rocks and quicksands ; still he continued the same system which caused all these peril' and dangers. True, he can say, " I am the person who has brought about catholic emancipation ;" but he (Lord S.) would say, that the measure had been reluctantly ex torted from the noble duke by the menaces of the asso ciation. He (Lord S.) would not now enter into the particulars of the distress, because he intended in a few days to move for a committee to inquire into the state of the nation. There was no person acquainted with the state of the nation (the Duke of Wellington only excepted) who did not consider that much of the distress aror from legislative measures. Every person knew that an unfa vourable season was unfavourable to agriculture, but who ever knew, except the noble mover of the addresi, that an unfavourable season would lower the price of corn.— The corn bill proved extremely injurious to the nation. It was represented by the late Lord Redesdale as a robbery. Had any person ever beard of unfavourable sessoninsususg butter, cheese, and wool, to be sold at lew prices, orpduce distress in the manufacturing districts ? The coun now approached a state bordering on despair. He conjured their lordships to do now what the country expected they should do, that was to inquire into the cause of the distress.— Their lordships could not continue long as a body, if Some remedy were not applied. This step would be more; beneficial to themselves and to the country than legal in-' cluing'', which were proposed merely for the purpose of diverting their minds from the distress of the country the latter should be attended to before the former, He inadequate extricate the country from misery. He (Lord S.) would propose en amendment to the address, and if it should not succeed, he would move for a committee of the whole house to enquire into the state of the nation. He would not include the foreign relations, because, though he ad mired dumb in them, there wore some parts wl.ich he dis approved of ; and he would rather limit the enquiry in order to gain more supporters. Much of the misery he attributed to a change in the currency ; it was the prin cipal cause of all our misery ; it increased the amount of our taxes higher than they were during the war. The noble earl, in conclusion, observed that if tLey should re foe his motion, it would afford a strong argument in fa your of parliamentary reform. Hia lordship then read his amendment as follows : "'That this house sees with the deepest sorrow and anxiety the severe distress which prevails in the country, and will immediately proceed to examine its causes with a view to a remedy. Ibis amendment was seconded, and The Loss 01*st:suss then read it aluud, and put the question upon. the original motion. Lord GODERICH said that, although it was his inten tion to support the original address proposed by the noble duke, and to oppose the amendment of the noble earl on his left, he assured that noble lord that, amongst the many considerations which induced him to take that course, could not be reckoned any insensibility to the dia tress which he knew and felt to prevail to a great extant, in the country, and which it was clearly the duty of that home to. study every practicable means to redress but feeling, u he did, that if he acquiesced in the an:end meat proposed by the noble lord, he sh • Jld be lead ing himself to that which he wu conscious was a delu sion, be, therefore, felt it a duty to oppose it. Before, however, he proce eded to make any remarks upon that part of the subject to which the noble earl had so empha tically called the attention of their lordships, he should beg permission to advert to some other matters mendoned in his asrOesty's speech because, although he felt . )9T. ha so important a consideration as the condition Of The country, as it was represented to be in circumstances of unexampled distress, he could not think they would be justified in neglecting the consideration of all other great questions in which the public interest were also involved, and he felt himself compelled to dissent from the doctrine of the noble earl with respect to one part of our domestic , concerns, which he had treated as a question of compa rative insignificance;--namely, that which related to the amelioration of the mode of administering justice. He thought it would be one of the greatest misfortunes which could befal the country if, because the people were suffering under distress, they were to shut the it eyes wil fully, and on principle, to all other questions in which they were called upon to act, not only upon the necessity of the moment, but for the benefit of the latest posterity. He hoped also, that those considerations which were not immediately connected with the internal condition of the country would not be viewed by their lordships in so immaterial a light as they seemed to be_by the noble earl—namely, the foreign relations of the country. On. that subject his majesty stated, in his speech, that he viewed with satisfaction the termination of the war be tween Russia and the Ottoman Porte. tithe words" view with satisfaction" related solely to the fact of that war being terminated, and of the east of Europe not being involved In a war of which no person could foresee the end, he entirely concurred in the sentiment; but if they were meant to imply that the terms and conditions upon which the war was terminated were to be taken as satisfactory, he could not concur in the expression of such feeling. He presumed that the -first sense which he had assigned to the words was that in which they were used in the speech. With respect to the termination of that war, it was one which he bad all along anticipated. He could not conceive that any man, who had looked at the course of events connected with the history of Tur key, ea regarded its connection with other European States, could possibly fail to see, that for the last 130 years, the power of the Turk had been going down eves, day, while the capacity of other powers for con tending succes4fully against it had been rapidly en the increase. In fact, the nature of his Government Ind tha principles of his faith rendered it impossible for him to stand stock still with the unreclaimed pre judices of ignorant fanaticism, while all the other. States, •whose fears he had excited or whose cupidity be bad inflamed, were making progress in those arts, • , diligent application of which could alone have mails; Mined him in his former strength and ascendancy. No one could fail to observe that there was no war for the last 130 years out of which he had not come shorn of. portion of his previous vigour ; and he (Lord Goderic4 had long been of opinicin that nothing could have saved that Prince 'from tl.e consequences of his unlucky war with Roasts but that which, for his own part, he should never have counselled, namely, coalition with the other powers of Europe. He knew that great pains had bees taken to propagate a contrary opinion in this country. He believed that such opinions were held in very impor ' taut quarters, and he knew that they had been very widely diffused. It had been said that the Porte was raising many thousand Asiatic troops, to be transported from one continent to the other and further, that the Sultan was to dedicate a standard to Mehemet, and other wonderful things were promised from the inspirations of enthusiastic ardour; but none of these .300,000 troops were brought over, because they were meplayed in an unsuccessful attempt to repel a bee* attack upon an opposite frontier. As to the Sultan,• wbeee'virtues and high qualities had been so much ex.: tolled, be (Lord GoderiCh) bad never been able to die . • • • _ atT • ' _ the and. be , posed quarrel with the doctrine of laying down a monarchy :.s the principle upon which the government of Greece ou'ut to be regulated. He, did not enter into the question as to the basin upon which that government was to he regulated as regarded the subject of interference; but it appeared to him that a government of that kind 2...1 more likely to be stable, intelligible, and definite, than it it were left to the winds and waves to form a govern ment, which might tend to foment internal distaibuece, and to create jealousies and dissensions throughout Eu rope, which would render its stability doubtful and un certain under any other arrangement.L lle should i,pg to trouble their lordships with one word on the subject of Portugal, in which he bad always felt a deep interest, together with a strong conviction of the serious difficul ties which attended the solution of the question. Ile felt. that the government had not an easx. task to discharge in endeavouring to bring that question to a satisfactory issue. That it was not yet brought to such an issue his majesty's speech announced. It was not very obvious, from the terms of the speech, what specific settlement was con templated. If he might venture a conjecture, he should presume that the r esu lt wou ld b e , t h at Don Migu..l would shortly be recognised. He was not prepared to say that he should object to O.:: fact of such recognition. Circumstance* might render it impossible for this coun try to do otherwise than recognise him. He, therefore, wished to be understood as offering no opinion at pre- I sent upon that part of the question; but he hoped that, if this country should recognise Don Miguel, it would le.* act of England, by England herself; that the _mre should originate with this kingdom, indepen deft of the mediation of, and without reference to, any odor power of Europe ; that it should be her own single act, on which she might found a future claim to the gra titude of Portugal, for what he would call so disin terested an act. He hoped also that, if we recognised Don Miguel eign of Portugal, we should net con - • ..,... unlimited meet whi 114%-bes4smie. cuted for their attachment to their country and its con stitution to fall victims to a tyranny which, on the con trary, he hoped, would be mitigated by the intervention el British counsels. He could not but eutertaitt a san guine hope that the conduct of the existing g•overnine.lt of Portugal towards the unhappy victims cf oppression and illegal outrage would be mitigated by the nii:d, yet . firm, interposition of British counsels. (Hear, hear, from Lord Holland.) He, as well as every noble lord aho bpard him, could not but join in the fervent wish that the ease of those unfortunate men should be strongly recom mended to the consideration of their own government ; and that they should not, under the forms of law, be mbjected to arbitrary punishment and death, or driven from their native country into perpetual exile—not for their crimes, but for their virtues. (Hear, hear.) If he could be permitted to be a competent judge on the subject, he was induced to infer, from the general view given by tho noble earl who last spoke, the two great ob .octs which that noble earl proposed to himself to effect were, first, to induce his majesty's ministers to get rid of *at pestilent heresy, as it had been called, free tilde ; and, secondly, to retrace its steps in respect to the cur rency, or re-model, at least, the moneyed system of the country. Take, for example, the subject of the 1% ooh trade, and the alterations which had been made in the duties on the export of our wool, and the import of foreign wool, and he would not hesitate to pledge himself that the greater part of all that had yet been urged on this subject by the opponents of free trade, in this instance, c..asisted of violent invective against the measure generally, and an assault on the heartlessness and enmity of ministers, who were described as a sot of demons—(:lear), for let!ilw in, contrary to the wisdom of our ancesto:s, an iuunea tion of foreign wool on the British growers. Now A hat was the fact with respect to this boastrd a isdom of ear ancestors, and our culpable departure font it ?—Wl.y, that so far from its being a part of the policy of our v. - i c ancestors to shut out, by heavy duties, foreign wocl fion coming into competition with our own growth of wool, the heavy duties on it were resorted to as a measure of le tonne by this country, contrary to the wisdom of our an- Motors, only in the year 1819. The wisdom of our an .Metors, in fact, ran in a contrary way; and before noble .lords proceeded to censure measures vaguely, it would be only fair that, as a preliminary in argument, they should :start by calling things by their.right names, and lot go on thus blundering ' themselves, and attempting to mislead persons not on their guard against arguments improperly drawn from falsely-assumed facts. The second diviyian of the noble earl's speech proceeded on a fact, than which nose wormers generally assumed; namely that the am:a nuses adopted relative to the currency, some years sir.ce, bed produced the disastrous effect of Increasing the taxa tion of the count, y, and this in the same proportion as it bad withdrawn a part of the then existing currency from circulation. Assuming this as a principle, then, taxation should be increased in its effect somewhere in the propor tion of 30 per cent. to sustain the argument of those op posed to the reformation of the currency in 1819., But tens this found really to be the fact ? In the year .181.5, Jot after the peace, this country was subjected to taxation ID the enormous amount of 80,000,0001. to which, in the present day, .56,000,0001. would be just CqUitralent, at a reduction of 30 per cent. Now the amount ,a taxation might be taken at 56,000,0001, which was a reduction of 30 per cent. on taxation, since that period; .or in the direct proportiop of the reduction of the currency. Re mot deplore the practiccof imputing the mere' em ber:lament felt in Agriculture 10 man i . tio to teal itith Which it had lit* tto Alp... Thin.,. only pd ./staff lb aggravate thew* ...Milk depiptiil . Y. • , th .: '.. c.nntre4o.l4l dn. A 4-.,: ''. , : ; . , ...:.• I, '.‘ . e . '', i tOrrini; 1 04111 A. 40V 1 . )et • „' -' , . - :: - .' 1 .7 4 z, - ; - . A lia.4.otie t . - . --..,..--tr,,- ....e • - . •:,. - .. 1. 1 / 4. . • cover any thing in his character but the vi;our—if it • .-. • r 1, `` reckless . - , , might be so termed—of a barbarian, uttterly reckless .. A of human life where there was any important object - „,, \AJ ' • .-- 1 ,... , r•-•:-. ) .- t - ,_•,___,. / t) ___ •. 1. - -_-,---- : ''1.,..; . '-'--- - dIM S --- P' • ./-_•" . to be attainod, and - who nia4e nothing of putting to , death 8,000 or 10,000 men whe:e any such end was to be accomplished. He (Lord Goderich) knew that unconditional submission would be the result of tho ~- _ Prni \'' absurd struggle when it came to the point. He , ilti believed that, in the commencement, great pains had been lynx u 2 , 4 . 0.v. .00) atoxias ara mayor! taken to delude the Sultan. It was truo the individual so/lEOm r liS . , . who practised those artifices was afterwards disclaimed by his government ; but be bad already done the mischief. . . ' He had said, "do not listen to England, or to France, or ...........,, ..... . to Russia ; but stand firm, and you will be sure of a suc- FRIDAY EVENINCI, FEB. 5, 1830. P RICE 71). cessful issue of the struggle." The Suit= was thus,on- fortunately, urged on to his own destruction. He said • unfortunately, because, although he was no lover of the :minded by moving an ad- hake' not if any complaints would be made to that house. Turk, and had no respect for the principles of his govern- as, as usual, an echo of the Hlot could not say if any petitions were sent in, w h e th er meat, nor set any high va l ue u p o n his political attach- or he (Lord S.) would move for an enquiry. It was meet to this country, y e t h e did no t lik e t o see hi m led utterly crushed- from amongst the nations of E4ropc. He well known that the petitions of the people were also dressed in a military tted with neglect by parliament It was often s a id was not desirous of seein g m easures t a k en by thi s coun t ry the address, concurred in the such petitions had been got up: he (Lord S.) w o u ld which should drive hi m p rec ipit a t e l y to hi s f ete, rin d y the noble mover, particu- wish to see any person try in this country to get up p i,. leave open territories so valuable, to excite the cupidity ...:. -: iced respecting our foreign thieve, praying to continue the present distress. If no of any power who mi g ht w i s h t o p ossess them. With - arkey,- though the war with petitions he sent in, it was from - a general want of confi- regard to the question of Greece, he was happy to hear act this country, still it was dwell parliament, founded on the materials that par- that it was likely tube adjpated in conformity to thereg :- ith disastrous rewrite to our ' - was composed of. When Lord - Liverpool in 1 18k7 • :of london of WOE He beliewskaloe -,s -4 P''''' " : i k -: . fed lattlefied that It p''`,• . - .. , table to take apicalturatfrPtaraii thole &aptly - 4==in cf ' -------- rith r egar d to Portugal, his he was . , ... ,as he ought to be, by that bore:: littitylateidiaakile ditivot ' tocol no doubt the right to the their . . w ,, pe did not now adopt some measure to relieve Of May 1829: if gave, io his opinion, a just extension of elder branch of the home that ill *AM, they would find themselves inadequate to territory to thoGreelui, and. be did not feel disposed Li • _ . _ MP .~ r~