Star. — London, England, 1820-06-07 00:00:00

% • • Ns b ; • Nklr little delibt.ratioh l tii - state. t fact. The question, vrp pe*ctly fair and reasonable. From' the of the Nsbie Lord, he had no hesitation in conciuditithitt the letter was perfectly genuine.. Mr. CRE VEY said, that whatever might be the opiniohof the Noble Lord, 'it certainly was not the opinion of all that the question of his Honourable Friend. was ,inexpedient ; for so persuaded was he (Mr: Creevey) that it was entirely competent to him to introduce this question to the House, that he held in his hand a motion which he had proposed to make, the object of which was, the production of the ac count of the negotiation that passed between the Agents of the English Government and het Majesty the Queen. It seemed that the House was now tallectupon to institute proceedings against her Ma jesty.; for the crime of setting her foot in England. This was the sum of the charge. The King, it ap peared,' had the same objections to be in the same kingdom with her Majesty, as he formerly had to sit with herin the same drawing-rcom—(Hear, hear). In pursuanceof this feeling of enmity, a threat was held out against her Majesty at one time, and then a bribe. was proffered of £50,000 to induce her to renounce her character. of Queen of these Realms ! (rear, hear).—The House ought to recollect, that when the King sent them a Message, desiring them to interfere in his behalf, it was their bounden duty to consider, before they went into the evidence (into which he maintained that they had no right to go, as nob Ody could doubt of the present being a private prosecution), not oaly the situation in which they might themselves be placed, but also the situation in which the King absolutely was placed. In the first instance, he was the procurer of the evidence and the prosecutor of the crime of which in the last he might be called upon to become the judge— (Hear, hear) ;--for if a Bill of Attainder should be passed against her Majesty, it could not be passed without the King's giving his consent to it as a' part of the Legislature—(Hear, hear). —The House ought to beware how it made itself a party to such a trans action, especially as, from the reign of Henry VIII. downwards, it had not been the custom of Parlia ment to interfere with the Queens of England-- (Loud cheers).—The arrival of her present Majesty appeared to have created indescribable alarm amongst Gentlemen on the other side of the House; for, strange as it might appear, fifteen Ministers failed last night to attend in their places, being too busily. employed in arming against one poor, weak, de fenceless woman ! ( Loud cheers). —And who was that woman ? The daughter of the Duke of Bruns wick, the niece of the lute King, the wife of the pre sent King, the mother of the Princess Charlotte (Hear, hear). —lf that Pi incess had been alive, would this business have ever been brought before the house ?—( Hear, hear).—lle thought not. He had written in pencil the motion of which he had intended to give notice, relative to the late negociation at St. Omer's ; whether he should move to-mom row evening that an account of it be laid before the House, he would not say ; but, feeling as he did upon the sub ct, he should have felt himself a disgraced man , if he had not made the remarks which he had just offered to their notice upon it--( Hear, hear).. Sir ROBERT WILSON assured the House, that no motion had ever occasioned him more acute regret than that which had just been submitted to the con sideration of the House. He trusted, however, that, in the appeal which he was going to make to their generosity, he should meet with the support of a majority of the House. He called upon them to protect her Majesty during the continuance of this inquiry from every species of indignity—(Hear, hear). Ile did not now allude to the indignities which she had received from our Ministers at foreign Courts, or from those foreign Courts themselves, at the in stigation of those Minister s, nor to the paltry indig nityof strikin:: , her name out of the Liturgy of the Church ; but he . ' did allude to the treatment which she had received in her journey to this country, and to the obstacles which had Leen raised up to retard it. It was a disgraceful fact, that the Queen of Eng land, in crossing from the Continent, should have had no other vessel on which to erect rhe Royal standard than a common passage-boat ! (Hear, hear). —lt was a disgraceful fact that she should have no place to which she could fly to as an asylum ! (Heru, hear)—that she should have no other roof to shelter her head, than that of an honest, but pri-, Tate individual ! —(Loud laughter.)—Gentlemen might laugh at the term, but he maintained that the Gentleman to whom he alluded was an honest man, and had performed his duty to her Majesty in the same exemplary manner as he had performed all the other duties cf his station—( Hear, .hear).—'That in dividual had given her an asylum which she had not been able to procure in any of the Palaces of the Crown—(l/cur, hear). —He was sloe that his Majesty would never wish to see any of his subjects treat; c 1 with indignities which they did not deserve, much less one who had once been the wife of his affection, and still was the partner of his throne—(Hear, hear). Lord A. HAMILTON thought the present a fa vourable opportunity for the few observations which he had to make. The House would recollect that he bad formed and expressed a strong opinion upon this subject before. His Honourable Friend (Sir Robert Wilson) seemed to attach but little importance to the exclusion of her Majesty's name from the Liturgy.— Ile (Lord A. Hamilton), on the contrary, was per suaded that this act of the Ministers tended in no small degree to exhibit a disposition on their part to condemn her Majesty unheard. He was of opinion that this act of theirs' was wholly illegal, and con trary to the terms of an Act of Parliament. Was it not one of the first and the most boasted principles of Britiih justice, that every individual, from the highest to the lowest, was regarded by the law as in nocentotntil he or she was proved to be guilty ? He would appeal to the sentiments of justice, of Minis • ters themselv.es, if• their conduct to the Queen was fair,. even upon the supposition that they were ena bled to make.out a case, against her? He begged to observe, that he spoke not from any instruction or authority upon this occasion. He contended that her Majestys . name ought to:be replaced in the Liturgy, before any measureof hostility was instituted against her. . That it had been the intention of Ministers to strip her of her character of Queen, was manifested by their present conduct. Their acts against her had raised a prejudic,e, under the operation of which the House was new called upon to enter upon the dis cussion of charges to be brought forward against her. I.; • The House balsot.eventeuld why.these inas b wire ofro t eci to her Majesty. Tromithe couctuat *distaffs it was an evident conclusion that they used i their iiffisence with a view to condemn her unheard. Be implored the House to remove from their minds 11 prejudices, and to enter upon thetaslt before them in the spirit of the law, which accounted all untried persons to belnnocent, notwithstanding Ministell had, as far as in them lay, condemned her Majesty. •It was the spin't of the Constitution that the acts of the Governnseet should at least be characterised with liberality. Was the Order in Council excluding her name from the Liturgy in this spirit? Was it not issued rather in consequence of some dark intrigue hatched against her? It was a curious fact, that this Order of Council, having been sent to Scotland, was no rare than a piece of waste paper there.— Many of the Clergy prayed for the Queen ; and, in a late assembly of the General Convocation, a motion was made to condemn this Order as an improper in terference with the Ecclesiastical Administration of that country. He (Lord A. Hamilton) thought it nee essary to say this much ; for he could not see the acts of Ministers pervade every part of the kingdom, without protesting against their conduct, and with out insisting on the right of her Majesty to be treated in the same way as the meanest criminal, namely, to be.put on her trial without prejudice. - Mr. DENMAN did not rise for the purpose of entering into any detailed discussion of the merits of this case, as perhaps a fitter opportunity would after wards occur. He confessed he was not anzious,to give language to his sentiments upon this occasion, kst he should be betrayed into those ardent feelings, the exposition of which did so much honour to his Honourable Friend, Mr. Bennett—(Cheers) —feelings which, he declared, were much less alarming to his mind than the temper, coolness, and coldness with which measures of such consequence, and opening such a prospect to the country and the future policy of its Governors, had been proffered to the House— (Cheers).—He would not trust himself in pursuing the topic, but in common justice to the illustrious Person whose arrival in this country was greeted with an accusation founded on secret papers, and not authorized by evidence—to be pursued also not by the ordinary tribunals—in justice to the Illustrious Lady, he begged to know what were the distinct proceedings about to be instituted against her? He asked this on the part of her Majesty—not that he was instructed particularly to put the question; but he thought it such as might be put .by any Member of that House. He then gave notice, that he would renew the question to-morrow; for he thought the information most essential in the awful proceedings about to be instituted—(Loud cheers). Mr. BROUGHAM would not enter even so briefly as his lion. Friend (Mr. Denman) had done into the merits of the question before the Hou. e. Unhappily, not only for the Illustrious Personage herself, but unhappily for the House, for Pal liatnent, for Go veinment, and for the Country, a resolution had, it appeared, at last been taken, which made longer si lence upon that most important subject utterly im possible. The time was, unfortunately, approach ing, when all men would be called upon to make up their minds, and when his (Mr. Brougham's) lips would, at length, be unsealed from that state of si lence which he had hitherto imposed upon them. At the present moment he should only say, and he thought it but fair to give the Noble Lord (Castle reagh) such warning, that his Majesty's Government would not only have to perform the task ; and to suc ceed in the task, of making out a strong case against the Queen, but they would have another task to exe cute, foremost in situation and paramount in im portance, as regarded their own justification = thej would have to shew, satisfactorily to shew, to con vince the House and the Country, that it had become impossible longer to iostpone or to suppress the dis cuision. Which way soever might be the merits of the case,' was, in his view, a matter of minor im portance, because, whatever might be the Queen's case, the case of Ministers must be, that the landing of the Queen in England, that simple act, Inade all further forbearance absolutely impossible. This truth was so manifestly clear, that he would not waste the time of the House in urging another word in sup port of it ; and he took it for granted that the Noble Lord and his colleagues were prepared to stake their places upon the event of the present proceeding. In his own justification, the Hon. Member continued, he now thought it proper to acquaint the House, that, since he had taken his seat, a public Newspaper had been put into his hand, in which, to his infinite sur prise, he had seen a long statement, in many respects au inaccurate, and, in some most material points, a garbled statement of the recent transactions which had taken place at St. Omer's. It was necessary, in justice to his • Noble Friend (Lord Hutchinson) with whom he had acted upon that occasion, and who was net now present, that he should first declare the statement which had appeared to be imperfect and garbled ; and, in his own defence, - he felt it neces sary to say, although he believed that no Member could suspect him of such a violation of propriety, that he knew nothing of the mode or manner in which, or of the channels through which, those cir cumstances had been made public. To what breach of confidence this publicity which had been given to part of the proceedings could be attributed, he was at a loss to conjecture : until he bad conic into the House, he had not been aware that a tittle of the matter had been promulgated. The question, " That his Majesty's most gracious Message be taken into consideration to-morrow," was then put and carried. Lqrd CASTLEREAGH moved, " That the Pa pers which he had delivereB should be kept in the custody of the Clerk of t h e House."—Agreed to. PARLIAMENTARY REFORM. Mr. LAMBTON observed, when 'he stated last night that he knew of no public grounds for post poning his motion, he was not aware of the measure which had just been announced by the Noble Lord ; but he now felt that he should be doing extreme in justice to the subject which had been entrusted tohis care, if he were to bring it forward in the present agitated state of the House. Convinced as he was that he should not now be able to obtain attention, whatever he might do on any other iaccMion, he would therefore postpone his motion until the 276 instant. Leave was then given to bring in a Bill for re-' moving the Elections of Knights of the Shire for the County of Susses, in future, to the town of Lewes. •• rplosier DIMES wished the thabedlat -Of the Xtebequer Would postpone bringing up theltepayt of the Committee &Supply to a future day, on ac count of the present stab of the House. . The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER pot aidered the bringing up &Report df the Committee of Supply as a matter of minor importance and or common course, and therefore that it was not neces sary to postpone it. Lord NUGENT could not sit silent and bear that described as a matter of miner importance, which was intended to continue the Army on a war esta blishment in a time of peace.—The Noble Lord was proceeding to comment in strong tetms on the con duct of Ministers, when he was interrupted by The SPEAKER, who reminded the Noble_ Lord he was out of order. Lord MILTON expressed his hopes that the Chan cellor of -the Exchequer would at least postpone bringing op the Report of the Army Estimates.— Mens minds were not now in a_ state to discuss mat ter so impoitant. The CRANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER an swered in a tone of voice that was inaudible. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then moved for leave to bring in .a Bill to amend the Saving Banks Act. Lord MILTON again repeated his request to the Chancellor of the Exchequer to postpone the Report. The CHANCELLOR of the Excliaotrea and Lord CASTLEREAGH said, a reduction of the number of the Army might be Moved on bringing up the Report of the -Mutiny 13111. Lord NUGENT and Lord MILTON, if that under standing was suffered to prevail, had no objection to suffer the Report of the Committee to be brought up. Mr. BROGDEN brought up the Report of the Committee of Supply. . Mr. CALCRAFT had intended, upon the bring ing up of the Report, to have called the attention of the House to the causes of the increase of the Army. He should, however, defer his observations to a fu ture day; and if he should be unable to introduce the subject in its proper place, he should be driven to the necessity of bringing• forward a substantive question. Mr. R. GORDON thought the attention of the House ought to be directed to the sum of £84,01)0 for the expense of additional Barracks. Mr. CALCRAFT stated, that new barracks were building in all parts of the country, and within and near the Metropolis, expibiting all the appearance of a Military Government. That circumstance certainly demanded the serious attention of the House. Mr. HUME re-stated what he had said on a former evening, relative to pensions upon retirement. Such pensions, he contended, s ere contrary to the Act of Parliament, by which no , pensions were to be granted for less than ten years services. In one case a pension had been given for a year and a hairy ser vice. He wished to know if the pensions were granted by the Master-General of the Ordnance, or had the signature of three Lords of the Treasury ? Mr. WARD stated, that pensions had been granted to four Clerks who had served in the West Indies, and whose situations had been abolished. That was perfectly consonant to the Act. All the pensions kad the signatures of three Lords of the Treasury. Mr. CALCRAFT observed, that the last time he had taken a share in the discussion on the Ordnance ,Estimates had been when Lord Mulgrave was at the head of that Department. On that occasion he has truly said, that the Estimates then presented to the House ought to serve as a model for all future Esti mates. He was sorry he could not compliment the present Master-General (of whose military talents no man could think more highly) on his regard to eco nomy, as there was an increase of £127,000 above 'the Estimates of last year. If such an increase was necessary, he thought it might have been met by cor responding reductions. Sir J. NEWPORT observed, that the Duke of Wellington was, in the present case, only to be looked to as the Master-General of the Ordnance, and equally responsible as any other public Officer. ARMY ESTIMATES. Upon the Resolution that 92,000 men should form the Army of Great Britain, Colonel DAVIES asked, if that number was to be the permanent Peace Establishment? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that temporary causes had led to a temporary in crease, which he trusted would not be permanent. Lord NUGENT stated his intention of bringing the question of the increase of the Army before the House in one of the stages of the Mutiny Bill. Mr. HUME observed, that in the American Le gislature, it was the practice at the commencement of the Session to appoint Committees to examine the Naval and Miliary Expenditure, as well as the other branches of the public expense. Such an example, he thought, might be adopted with much advantage in this country. 'There were Storekeepers in all the different Colonies, though one Storekeeper might do all the business. Sir JOHN NEWPORT deprecated the idea of Parliament devolving its own duty on any Committee. Mr. R. GORDON moved for an account of the expense of erecting Barracks from the year 1793 down to the present time, distinguishing each year. —Ordered. Mr. N. CALVERT obtained leave to bring in a Bill for the more summary remedy of vexatious and malicious injury..—The Bill was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Monday. Mr. PARNELL moved for a copy of the Corre spondence between the Chief Secretary of State for Ireland, and the Seneschal of Belfast, on the subject of paupers passed from Great Britain to Ireland. Mr. S. BOURNE stated, that one parish had paid' £lO,OOO for passing paupers to Ireland. Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, that he could not see a remedy For the evil complained of; except the introduction of the Poor Laws into Ireland, which would be a remedy infinitely worse than the disease. Mr. WILLIAMS thqught the existing law, on the whole, beneficial. Lord PALMERSTON brought in the Annual Mutiny Bill, which was read a first time, and or dered to be read a second time to-ntorrow.—He also obtained leave to bring in- a Bill to regulate the allowance to Publicans for quartering soldiers.- • .: The Exchequer Funding Bill was read a second time, and committed for tomorrow. The other Orden ;rate then disposed of, and at Eight o'clock the Houle &dimmed. . - - Tilt QUEEN., (From the Tlyftes.) We ate this . d i ty enabled to add mane other hit pottant doettinents to those *hich we published yes tecday,:in respect to the lattscnndhlous negotiation : we shall merely cosine& theist sin a' few words df explanation 1 After the interview between the Queen, Lord Hutchinson, and Mr. Brougham, on Saturday night, , at St. °met's, during which nothing pawed except conversation on _indifferent topics, Mr. Brougham' sent the following letter to Lord Hutchinson,—.{it mar be proper here to mention, that Mr. Brougham and Lord Hutchinson were at different hotels, end' did not see each other during the negotiation, except in the presence of the QueenJ. " Mr. Brougham having humbly submitted to the Queof.- that he had reason to believe that Lord Hutchinson had brought over a proposition from the Kiag to her Majesty, the Queen has been pleased to command Mr. Brougham to request Lord Hutchinson to communicate any such proposition as soon as possible, in writing. The bearer of this (Count Vassali) will wait to receive it from your Lordship.—June 4, 189.0." To this letter Lord Hutchinson sent a written answer, which it is not material to publish, as it merely stated that his Lordship had no written-pro posals, but merely some scattered memoranda on scraps of paper. Mr. Brougham instantly sent the following reply to Lord Hutchinson's letter: •" Mr. Brougham is commanded by the %teen to express to Lord Hutchinson, her Majesty's surprise at his Lordship not • being ready to state the terms of the proposition-of which he is the bearer; but, as Lord Hutchinson is desirous of. a few he ,t, delay, her Majesty will wait until five o'clock, hi the expect.} tion of receiving a communication from his LOrdship at that Your.—Two o'clock, June 4, 1820." This letter is dated two o'clock on Suriday, and it was not till within a few minutes of the stipulated time (five o'clock) that Lord klutchinsOpconiMuni cated his proposals in the letter,which ire published in yesterday's Paper, and which is a literal transcript of the original document. : As soon as this olfensiiii e pistle' was read by tte Queen, Mr. Brougham, at her Majesty's request,. made the following answer in writing : i " Mr. Brougham is commanded by the Queen to acknow ledge the receipt of Lard Ilutchinson's letter, and to inform his Lordship, that ii is quite impouible tor her Majesty to listen' to such a proposition.—The o'clock, June 4." Within a very few minutes after this last commu nication her Majesty suddenly left Mr. Brnughant, and went into her carriage, which was ordered to: drive away with the greatest possible speed. The suddenness of her :departure was such, that.-Mr: Brougham had no‘time to follow her Majesty to' her coach, and indeed scarcely knew she was gone till he saw from - a window the Carriage hastening away. The .reason of this precipitate departure, which prevented Mr. Brougham - from' paying the respect which he would otherwise have most anxiously paid, has been since very satisfactorily and naturally ex plained. .Lord Htitchinson, 4 very short time before her Majesty's leaving St. Omer's, happened to say that he expected, almost immediately, a courier from Paris. Her Majesty, conceiving, that the only object of a courier 'rem the capital of a country which had treated her with such marked neglect must be a hos tile one, and probably might end in intercepting her journey, took the prompt resolution of setting off that very instant, lest the delay of a few minutes might allow time for the arrival of a messenger with powers to refuse her the means of travelling. Her Majesty was even afraid that some difficulties might be thrown in her way at Calais, and therefore, to make all sure, determined to go at once on board the English'packet-boat. Such an apprehension fully justified her Majesty's abrupt departure front the Hotel at St. Omer's, and as fully euplains the non= attendance of Mr. Brougham at her carriage-door: for her Majesty,- in her antiety, did not mention to any one the reason of her haste till Zte had arrived almost at Calais. It turns out, however, that her Majesty had misunderstood Lord Hutchinson's mean• ing : the courier expected from Paris was merely to bring an answer from Lord Hutchinson's nephew, who resides in that metropolis, and to whom his Lord ship had written, requiring him to come and assist him, as his confidential amanuensis, in the same man ner as Mr. Brougham's brother assisted him. Lord Hutchinson so little expected her Majesty's departure, that he was in the act of writing the fol lowing letter to Mr. Brougham when the Queen went away. This letter was sent after her Majesty to Ca- lais, in an enclosure from Mr. Brougham. The Queen was asleep on board the packet-boat when the parcel arrived, about one o'clock, and it was there fore received by Alderman Wood, who was on deck. The worthy Alderman did not think it right to disturb her Majesty; but, about two hours afterwards, hear ing her speak to her female attendant, he sent the letter to her ; her Majesty read it, and desired Mr. Alderman - Wood-to acknowledge it; but'to add, that the Queen saw no reason to alter tier course : ‘i ST. comes, era o'ctocz, note 4, TM. a MY tutes Ssa.—l should wish that you would enter into a more detailed explanation; but, to stew you my anxious and sincere wish for an accommodation, I am willin g to wo g a t ow limo, England to ask fur further instruction, provided bet Ma jesty will egmmunicate to you whether any part of the propos!. tion Which I have made would be acceptable to her; and If there is anything which she may wish to offer to the /high sh Govens ' Men,. on hot pirt, I am willing to make myself the medians througt which havethe honour to be," . &c. (Segued) • • t'. HUTCHINSON." The preceding letter of Lord Hutchinson exhibits at once the promptitude and firmness of her Ma jesty's character. We have no doubt that ; b a d she j•, 0 T la 0 1- St 1- r s 1- le e- k. r . 4 [r. at )3 nd la- ei- !re re- ,err its