Star. — London, England, 1827-06-02 00:00:00

f eCt rf complicating and obscurin g the national ac caniii..—(Hear, hear, from Mr. Hume); and because n has that effect, I am apprehensive that more blame k ally attributed to it than really belongs to it—. ear ). As to this account, however, its operation not , s ly had no ill effect, but really gives an advantage to it. ybeenntribation from the Commissioners of Half-pay ~,a fiensiona wa5'7,600,0001• but the Committee should i n , in mind, that at the time the measure of the Dead „apt was introduced, annual taxes to the amount of toot were repealed. Before it was assumed, M e te, foie t hat this 7,600,0001. imparted an ex a gg erated " winc e to the statement of our inc o m e, Honourable 'ac;ntlemen should consider what would have been the To me of the taxes that were repealed because this contribution, and only because this contribution was e.tablished—(Loud cries of hear, hear). These taxes, if now u tirepealed, and which only were repealed to d now arr ive at this object (the Hear, Dea hear). g ht) would So far, there amount w 8,200,000 L—( foie, from the statement being unfairly swollen by this contribution, to whatever objections it may be liable from introducing obscurity into our accounts, as far as relates to the charge of presenting the accounts which I have submitted in a false point of view, it is perfectly guiltless; for if it had never been established, the in come would be 600 bOOl. more than it actually appears so be. The general effect, therefore, of introducing this measure, has been, instead of increasing to diminish the general account, from 1,800,0001. to 1,200,0001. The obvious faults of the measure I admit, but it has coun ter/ailing merits; and of these I own I was not aware, until! examined into the subject. Before I had done) ao, like others who are in ignorance of it, l was alive only to its evils; but it cannot be denied, that during the last four years of its existence, very substantial be atfit has been derived from it. At the expiration of the contract, it will be our duty to consider its de fects and compensating advantages, and, in the con iideration, mainly to be directed by the view of sim. plifying our accounts. This is not, however, the time for discussing it; it will become us, when that toe comes, to meet the difficulty fully in the face, and to take up that part of the burden from which we have been relieved. More benefit will be derived from wait ing for that time, than flom prematurely adopting any sweeping measure now. I forbear from giving any pledge upon this subject, further than this, and it is all that the House can expect, or the Government can do. The Committee cannot fail to perceive, from what I have endeavoured to enforce, that I have enter tained the expediency of a Sinking Fund (whether it be called by that name or Surplus Expenditure), to assist us in maintaining the national faith and national credit. I may ask the Committee, what would they suppose of a country that was not in a condition to provide for a sudden defalcation of revenue, or an unforeseen emer &mei ? The past year has brought both these necessi ties upon us—a sudden falling off of revenue, and an emergency coming upon us suddenly and unawares— (Hear, hear). What would they think of the situation of a private Gentleman, who would squander kis ascer. taineJ income, and not lay by a part of it to meet any sudden call that may be made upon him, or demand that may not be foreseen?—(Hear, hear, hear). What should be the amount of such a surplus fund, it is not our business now to discuss; but I own that it does appear to my mind that there ought to be a Sinking Fund of not less than five millions on a revenue ti fifty millions—less than this we should not have, judgiii e ing from our own experience and acting consistently, with private analogies. I abstain now from expressing how large that fund should be, but express frankly my opinion that it should exist ;reserving the determination of its amount, until the whole question of our finances shall be considered. On such au occasion Government shotililnoiiothe --- -advieirsit Parliament. The question for the Committee now is, whether the deficiency, vhich I have stated in round numbers to be three mil lions or something less, shall be provided for by any extraordinary course, or by taking credit on the Conso lidated Fuod ; and also to wait until next year for the adoption of•any measure of a stronger character, should such a measure be deemed necessary? The first ques tion for the Committee is, whether the amount of Ex chequer Bills are at present at such a rate that the hypothetical addition may be safely made? or whether, by making it, they would run the risk of bearing too bard upon them? This may be determined by a consideration pf their present price. The present re ams is 50s. on each 1901. Each 1001. yields three, and there is so appearance at present of an over stocked m ar k e i. 'The whole amount of Exchequer 4i/JS out at present is 23,500,00172 SIAPOO4 that amount to be increased according to the state of the revenue and of the country for the last four inooths,, and without taking into account the indications--1 sot say of prosperity, b ut o f activit y , nod einumerce-.-:' suppose the !Opt s the utmost they can tsi at the' close of:the present year trill be 26,7.0 I &Mk from the united testimonies that have reached the Go: vernment and the House froth all parts SA di quiltry. Suppose even: this to be she . **bunt, it err uold be a smaller ' amount of- _ oer than ace been • afloat any yeagfpwAsi last twenty years; but.withont taking the nogg Avow able view for the relief of the deficiency of the present year, there is an important view of the subject which should be presented to the Committee, namely, torsonsider .that of :the whole ag gregate of these Exchequer Bills, *ione-fifth is not B k.: chequer Bills, in the ordinary sense of that ,term; so that there would remain but four-fifths to which that term is fairly applicable. I say that one•fifth does not fairly come under the denomination, as they are re presented by advances made by and due to the GIP vernmeat—in public works, in loans, kc. which wor, available securities. This reduces the whole amount? of Exchequer Bills, on the supposition of their pos sibly increasing to twenty-six millions, which is not, only couiderably less than the estimate I have made, but is by five millions less than the amount of Exche quer Bills afloat at any time within the last twenty years. This consideration of the present state of outstanding Exchequer Bills, and a comparison of it with the possi ble effect of any other mode, strongly incline me to meet the deficiency by the cotrr* I have suggested.— lhe present condition of the country is that of hopeful, sot confirmed convalescence. 1 trust and believe that , it is proceeding to a return of its former power and security (of course I mean financial security), provided !tit not at this critical period tampered with by any n'lerious remedy, or by any sudden shock, which !lay uivert it from the course of prosperity in which , n giadually, but directly advancing--(Cheets). I see iniprovement in our reson:ces, which induces tae to trust much to the old natural means for relief, and not allow ourselves to be preahaturily tvluipteti from that sys.em, n a perseverance 'in ivh:th I think we may rely for a realization of Our hopes, and which we ought not premataiely to 'abaft, don without a due consideration of what coarse to pur l sue. If I were to decide for myself in taking a course like this, without first stating it to Parliament, I feel' that the respinsibility would be too great for me to as sume. But it is because I have frankly and openly stated it to Parliament—because I have nothing to keep back or to colour—because there is no concealment— ' because I have no object other then to represent things l as they are, that I have the courage to wait and expect, and that I do hope that more benefit will be derived from leaving things for the present as they are, than from any premature measure that could be adopted. I have thus far stated the general principles on which I think it expedient and vise to proceed, rather than enter into any complicated accounts, or multiplied details, which may only add to the complication, and which belong to a department in which, I am free to admit, my experience is not very great—(Hear, hear !) My object has been to put forward the principles upon which I propose to proceed, in as conspicuous a way, as I wish the course to be pursued to be clear and satisfactory.— It only remains for me to state the Supplies for this year : Army . £8,194,000 Navy . 6,125,000 Ordnance . . 1,649,000 Nisi:4ll46ms . 2,275,000 Interest on &chequer Bitla . 650,000 • 1E1,893,060 The vote of 2500,000 was rendered rejuisite, on ac ' count of our troops in Portugal. The Right Hon. Gentleman then proceeded to state, that, besides the vote of credit, the accounts on the table 'state an ex cess to the Ways and Means of last year over the supply • . 2900,000 Vote of credit . . 2500,000 Sinking Fund Total Expenditure . . . . 157,464,000 1 7 .10Selene* to be provided for in 1827 . . . .12,864,000 Military and Naval Pensions 455,000 Debt from the East India Company and Military ) 100,000 ' Expenses . . . f Duties on Sugar : • • • . . 50,000 Having proposed to provide for these charges on the "Consolidated Fund, the Right Honourable Gentleman proceeded :—From what I have stated, it is for the Committee to decided under the circumstances of the country, whether we shall go on through the present year, not in ignorance, but with a full knowledge of our situation, and abstain from a change until we I await the growing effects of our present prospects of prosperity, rather than hastily press forward to that question of financial consideration which stands for next year, with a risk before to of deranging our present accounts without knowing the possible effects of that derangement. In the Supplies of last year, there is an increase, beyond the estimated charge, of 800,0001. This increase arose from certain charges on account of Army Extraordinaries ' and on account of the Vote of Credit for Portugal. I know it will be urged that it is desirable to bring us back to a fixed and certain ex penditure. As to this or any precise limit, or any future measure, I forbear from making any promises; and for this reason, that I have always observed that promises of this kind are always exaggerated by those to whom they are made, and because, as mote is expected than is held out, they generally end is disappointment. All I can say on the part of Government is, that Ministers are disposed and determined to apply their best efforts, and that they nave resolved to take the House Into counsel on the subject. This is all that, in the circum stances of the country, the House can expect, or that Government can do—(Cheers). In its present state we should not even aid the country, but leave it to its na- , tural course, and, before the adoption of any new mea sure, wait until the prosperity of the country was more unequivocal—(Hear.) I have a confident hope that that I prosperity which has commenced will continue to pt crease. That hope I found on a knowlege and reliance of its intrinsic energies—of its ascertained, though not ' now put-forth power, rather than on any particular cir cumstances which might, in the statement, lead into urinate and detailed explaoation—(Cheers). Before 1 sit down I will, with thepermission of the House, read an extract from an eminent authority in support of the propriety and efficacy of the principles on which I have professea and avowed my reliance.—[The Right Hon. Gentleman then read the following extract Q " But thee* is still another cause, even more satisfactory than there, because it is of a still more extensive and permanent nature—that constant accumulation of capital, tkat con tinual tendency to increase the operation is universally' seen in a greater or less proportion, whenever it is not obstructed by some public calamity, or by some mis taken and mischievous policy, but which must be con spicuous And rapid indeed in any country which has at once arrived at an advanced state of commercial prosperity. Simple and obvious as this principle is, and felt and observed as it must have been, in a• greater or less degree, even from the earliest periods, I doubt whether it has ever been fully developed and sufficiently explained, but in the writings of an author of our times, now unfortunately no more (Adam Smith), whose extensive knowledge of de tail, and depth of philosophical research, will, I be lieve, furnish the best solution to every question connected with the history of commerce, or with the systems of political economy. This accumulation of capital arises from the continual applicetion of a part, at least, of the -profit obtained in each year, to increase the total amount of capital, to be employed in a similar manner, and with continued profit, la the year following. The great mass bf the property of the nation is thus constantly in creasing at compound interest, the progress of which in any considerable period, is whet at hrst view would appear incredible: Great as 'here been the effects of this cause already, they must be greater in future; for ' its powers are augmented in proportion as they are exerted. It acts with a velocity continually accele rated, with a force continually increased, it may, indeed, it we have ourselves experienced, be checked or retard 'ed by particular circeniltances—it may for a time be interrupted, or even overpowered; but, where there is a fund of productive labour and active industry, it can sever 'be totally extinguished. In the season of the severest calamity and disues=, its operations will still counteract and diminish their effects; in the first return ing intetval of prosperity, it will be active to repair them. If WC look to a peeled, like the present, of continued tranquillity, the elifficu!ty will be to imagine limits to its operation. None can be &end while there exists at home any one object of .A.iii Or industry short of its utino.t possible petfectiOl-ope spot of ground in the j country capable of higher cultivation and improvement; or white there remains abroad any new market that can be exploird, br any exiting market that can be extended. From the intercourse of commerce, it will iii some measure participate in the growth of other n 4 ions—ln all the poiiible* VAtieties ofthetr situations. — The rude s% ants of countries emerging tiom barbarism, A 51,764,000 5,700,000 cud ate al tificial and increasing dethands of I .fury a d tefinensent, will iquilly open new - tonnes of tteasure sod new fields of exertion, in every state of society, and ih iheremdteit quarters bf the globe. It is this prin ciple wbiehll believe, according to the uniform result of history and experience, maintains, on the whole—in spite of the vicissitudes of fortune, and the disasters of empires—a continued course of nieces• sive improvement in the general order of the world." These are the words of Mr. Pitt. Adam Smith is the authority cited. Let those who regard the application' of philosophy to politics as innovation, go back with me to the principles avowed in this House by Mr. Pitt in 1792.—(Cheers).—I now speak them from my mouth—l adopt them as my principles—l proclaim them to Parliament as the guide and polar-star of my political course."--(The Right Hon. Gentleman sat down amid loud and continued cheers.) After a considerable pause in the House, Mr. HUME said, the Right Hon. Gentleman ad mitted there was a deficiepcy. The House should con sider the situation in which the country was placed. He did not mean to deny that it possessed great reaources,l and that there were efforts which might be made, and ought to be made to relieve it. After twelve years of peace, were theyto be still deluded with the expectation of improvement? Let them look at all the debates of the last twelve years, and they should find it regularly said every year, thatthey were to have the golden nom. ber of five millions for a sinking fund. In 1192 tha whole revenue of the military was only 16,000,0001. nose 4t amounted to 55,000,0001. He could prove, that by the 'operation of the Sinking Fund since the time of its esta blishment by Mr. Pitt, the country had lost no less than Iwo hundred and twenty-three millions sterling. The debt at present amounted to 800 millions. Would such an enormous load of debt warrant them in going on foe another year in the same course of expenditure while there was an actual defalcation in the revenue? If they did so, they would shew an utter disregard of the int*• rests of the country. Before the appointment of the Committee which the Right Hon. Gentleman promised next Session, three or four millions would be added to the Public Debt. The Right Hon. Gentleman .built his hopes of improvement on a passage from Smith. Since ever he had a seat in that House he in the habit of hearing yearly from every Charliellor of the Exchequer those promises of improvement: What a delightful prospect now to be told, that they must either raise a new loan next year or impose nest taxes ! Would they permit the country to'go on de pending upon such unexampled expedients as those now suggested? Why not meet the difficulties. at once? The Bight Honourable Gentleman might say what he pleased upon the energies of the country, about opening new markets, and new sources of wealth; but the only true source of wealth was a saving out of income. He saw no reason to expect greet improve ment either in trade or commerce. Let them look at the shipping interest. Was there any prospect of in creased revenue from that source? Quite the contrary. There was no reason to hope that the capital embarked in it would return even a simple interest. What was the state of the manufacturing interest? Would any one say that for the last four years the saving of manufac turing capital was such as to warrant any great hopes from that source? Look to the mercantile interest. There was no branch of it that returned the usual pro• is of capital. Instead of declining in price, the fund* were getting higher, because people were desirous td get any interest for their money, not being able. to' employ it profitably in trade. No merchant now could employ 1,0001. in any speculation with a certainty of ' reasonable profit. Another source of future prospe rity alluded to by the Right Honourable Gentleman was increased demand. From whence was it to come ?...... He saw no ground fur expecting an increased demandi the truth was, that the general interests of commeree. were depressed. If a person saw a man staggering under a heavy load, in place of saying, " Oh ! let him go on," would not humanity suggest to relieve him by taking off past of the burden? He did not expect that the Right Hon. Gentleman would have attempted to lead the House astray by such fallacies, by taking the average of four years. The course proposed to be pur sued was unfair to every interest. He must protest against the Right Hon. Gentleman's taking his establish. ments larger by 830,0001. this year than last. England was the only State in the world, not excepting even Tur key, which did not keep its expenditure within its income, and in this at least Turkey was happy that it had no credit, and of course could not run into debt. He could not perceive by what had fallen from the Rt. Hon. Gent. any advantage that accrued from the Dead-weight: He must protest against any increase of the unfunded debt I 'to meet the expenditure. They had been going on for the last. 22 years borrowing in this manner at a con siderable loss to the public. It was not enough to ssly the unfunded debt would be less at the close ot ibis year than at any period for twenty years. The Right HO& Gentleman seemed to forget that 8.000,00 01 ; had been funded last year, and still the unfunded debt was as lailge as ever. The plan proposed was altogether fal lacious and mischievous. Let them look at the state of the Revenue. The fact was, that in proportion as the Revenue decreased, the Elf enditure went on regularly increasing. The accounts were so complicated that it was impossible to understand them. It would be better to have a plain statement of 2 debtor and creditor account, which any person might understand, as was the case in France and the United States of America. The object proposed by the Chancellor of the Exche quer last year was to reduce the Uofunded Debt by 14000,0001. six millions 6f which was to be paid to the Batik. He believed this six millions had'not been yet paid. if the income was not sufficient, what they should do was to reduce the expenditure. In two months he would undertake to reduce from five to seven millions, without injury to any public establish ment. He most protest against putting the nation to expense, for the purpose of giving constitutions to other cou,stries. He believed that in Portugal a ma jority of the government of the people and of the army, of all orders, in fact, was opposed to the Con stitution. If they wished to have a tyrannical Go vernment, in GOD'S name let them have one—(A laugh). —He should not object to the expedition to Portu gal if the expense was to be paid out of the Right Honourable Gentleman's own pocket; but he must protest against putting the cuunity to expense for , such foolish undertakings. It it were proposed, now, he felt confident that not one in the country ' would be in favour of it. Before the House separated he' was determined to ascertain whether they would agree to the ret aiming of an army in Portugal at a vast' expense? In America, with a population ot 12,000,000, rive regiments were found sufficient for all the military *ant ? ot the country, ,whsle our establishment cost no leas than 10,000,0001. The statertient of the Right Gentleman wat too general. 7. He (oak aneAci tbe top of the ladder without !hewing hosi he got siversi.ws- Whatever debt had been'ineUrthdin thtlittuyetriobght to be provided for in some w .y or other; instead of tiding it over until the next. Th course recces:nen 'ed by the Right Honourable Gentleman, resaissied hire of a Gentleman who came to consult him about his affairs, and whom he advised to cut'off several items of kis expenditure in prder to create a sinking fund to resleeakhis encumbrances. He was told that his advice was very kind, bat his f iend deter mined to let 11:s affairs go on as they were for anogier year, and perhaps some thing might turn up to improve them. The Right Hon. Gentleman was taking exactly this course ; he protested against it; and he called upon the House net to co• sent to the proposition of deferring the consideration of the state of the cotiotry to another year. Lord ALTHORP said, that although he thought the Right Honourable Gentleman might have, been too sanguine in some of his anticipations, and although he believed the situation of the country still required the greatest core and wisdom in its management, yet he thought it would not be fair to the Govern.. anent to compel it to go into all the details of its affairs until they had been longer in office, and had had time to examine them calmly and thoroughly.... Indeed. he was of opinion that to force them to take that course prematurely, would hays a bad effect ,on the ultimate reduction of expenditure to wbichthe mantry now looked. It would be better, as well as airs fair, to allow the Right Hoc. Gentleman to be ti lmelonger in office, so that he may have turned his 'Died to a more comprehensive examination of the Finances, before they called upon him to bring forward measures. By that delay he was convinced a more effectual reduction would be obtained; because if the Right Honourable Gentleman now went into a consi deration of that object, he would do so with a more reluctant disposition of retrenchment than at a more distant period. when enquiry bad convinced him of its necessity. The Right Honourable Gentleman had promised that a Finance Committee should be appoint ed, and that was a security to the House that something would be done. It could not be supposed that the Right Hon. Gentleman meant that Committee to be a delusive one; and if it should not be a delusion good must arise from it. He, must say, that however he was disposed to give his support to the present Go. vernment, he could not continue - to do so unless the utmost economy should be carried into all the branches of the expenditure by the next' Session. But the Right Hon. Gentleman had promised better things, and the country looked for reduction as the condition upon which his Government was to, receive its confidence and support. For this reason he was prepared to agree to that proposition of the Right Hon. Gentleman to tide over the present year. He should object to an in crease of the unfunded debt under any circumstances, but at present lee thought it was the best course for the country. . Sir H. PARNICLL maileleek diet *Ow* view in wbicb a Sinking Fund could be of adearritMe wee den of its trimaran sae. pies of become over expenditure. The worst part of oar financial circumstances was our having had twelve years of peace and no di minutiae of the Debt ; and as long as we remained without a hope from which the Debt would be diminished, the finances of the comer, mg be considered in a wry bad predicament. Ile trusted that the Memo Minister, before they were assembled in the next Sesdne s eeeulitaywdiecaatr some raesbridtly which the 'National Debt afight be gamed In a enures of redection. He had, four year* rissi af o r i za lo Me fives, which at that t i lz ir. ewas sane ); and aphid ea= had never beard One reasonable objection. The Hon. &Met them restated Ids plan, which we understood to consist in the 1111111.01114012 of Stock in terminable Annuities. Still, debt was only an evil telativeiy—is relation to the wealth and the means of the country. It must therefore be the true principle and policy of a Chancellor of the Exchequer to give every encouragement to the prodiaction and increase of wealth, and that could only be done effectually by a reduction of taxation._ One of the greatest evils was the system of protecting particular articles of produce by duties. With respect to the Dead Weight, he thought the statement of the Right Honourable Chancellor of the Exchequer incorrect. He agreed. with the Noble Lord who spoke last, that it would be un wise, in the present state of the Session, and under the present fir eantatanera of the country, to press the Right Ham Chanardecof the Exchequer upon the financial system. . ..4- , • Colonel HAW ES said, that he believed the state of the popery still to be alarming, although there was undoubtedly a gromitipa pr Dimmest going on in its affairs. But WAYS the Goetwilemilli and the Parliament came forward to do their duty by relieving*. it was impossible that the commercial and maNufacturing imams could dm be replaced in the situadon they held before they were pasted down under the weight of so gamey barthens. After dis lairirlkin several parts of the statement of the Raabe Ha*. the amillariest of the Fackeepre s ahe Hon. Member expressed Mouth- Arden at its general spirit, and particularly at its concluding with the Oscura front Mr. Pitt. Lord MILTON said, that although he had frequently fiiund himself called upon to agree with his Hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen, be could not do so upon this occasion. If he wider.. stood his Heo. Friend rightly, be proposed to censure his Majesty's Ministers for not being prepared to come down to the Hasse w.tb some permanent financial measures for the future government of the country. Now, if there ever was a time at which it would be unwise to attempt to legislate upon such subjects it was the pre sent,—when the country was, indeed, reviving from the prestra. don to which It had been reduced, but not yet restored to that rest and tranquillity, so necessary to a calm and dispassionate view of its actual dtuation and future prospects. lie looked forward to that period arriving horn which the ' future might be viewed with sanguine expectation, because he looked to the probability of great general reductions In the expenditure of the country.— He was sanguine In this because when be saw that no attempt had hitherto been made by the Government to carry retrenchment into effect, he did not despair of its being practicable when the Right Hots. Gentleman set about it in earnest. With the exception of that one period when distress pulled down some of the greatest and the strongest in the country, and by driving many oldie landed interest, who had been the staunchest supporter* et the Govern- Meet, into something Ste epposkima, cenapelled the Greeranumt to make a considerable reduction, with that cue exception, nothing bad been attempted. The Right Hon. Geetismen mast undertake to do this, and be must brace up an his firmness to the task. He must put on the whole armour of denial against the appeals by which be would be beset from every department. Ile must remember that be stood in a different situation from all his predecessors, and make up his mind to resist firmly those applications, which, to describe in more distinct terms would not be parilementary, that wand be sure to become those possessing parliamentary telecom To lay on taxation for the purpose of creating a Sinking Fund was a de lesion. it appeared to bins to be the oily error in Mr. Pitt's finan cial administration. Sir J. NEWPORT said he placed entire confidence in the intentions of the Right Honourable Gentleman, and he was sure that such an arrangement of the leading taxes could be proposed by the Finance Committee, as would greatly increase the Re turns of tfie Revenue, and rather relieve than augment their pres sure upon the people. The Honuurable Member for Aberdeen had condemned the expedition to Portugal, and said that if it were to be proposed now, there was net a man in the country who would agree to it. He denied that this was the fact. But if no other nun could be found to support it, be would still undertake to do so. The country could have taken no other course without violating the faith of treaties, and sacrificing its character and honour. He en tirely concurred in the course pursued by the Right Hon. Gentleman in postponing the consideration ot the Finances until another year. Mr. WA ItBURTON said, that a+ dal would be his only oppor tunity for calling the attention of the House to the badman, there was one item which he was extremely anxious to owntion. They had been called upon to vote a large sum for fortifications and canals in Canada, and the ultimate expense of the works bad been estimated at one hundred and seventy thousand pounds, a +llOl which in all probability would be greedy exceeded• When so many public works remained incomplete in this country,it was a gross thing to begin an undertaking of this nature, whir* might, ass on as it wan finished, passimo the hands of an enemy. ' Ht entreated I 1 , l i 1 1 , 1 't 1 t. 1 1 1 1 1 , ' l t ; i 4 i . 1 / 0 , . • I I '' .1