Star. — London, England, 1813-03-31 00:00:00

f IMALI4MENI* - ARr PROCEtDINGS. HOUSE OP LORDS, MARCH 30. In a Committee et Ps iriieges on the borthwick Peerage, Coun sel was beard at the Par. and the further consideration postponed to Thursday next,--'rhe Committee then adjourned. Prayers being read and the Mouse formed, the two Exchequer Bills BPI went through a Comna!ttee, and were ordered to be reported. Lord SIDNIOUIH invented a Petition from the Freeholders end other. of Aprleby. and moth -s from the Synod of Meese sod ttitint Dile. against the claims of the Catholics. Lord CA iDIGAN rresented a Petition to the sane effect, from he othllattants of C't pving Wicontbe. Mr. Macleane, from t•lte Chest at Greenwich ; and Mr. Sted- Mon. from the Stamp-ollice, presented Papers, agreeably to the orders of their Lordst.iis. The Earl of BUCKINGHAMSHIRE, adverting to the ques tion of India Whirs, obsery d, that It had been the intention of his Majes.rs Gov.rnment to bring forward the business in mode corrermabie to that pursued in the Commercial Regula eons and th. tlpitxs with Ireland. But it had since been found • ozpecLent to refer the course of referring the various Petitions to the consideration . of a Select Committee. After some observations from Lords GI twin LLE, LIVIR toot. ' .ad ELDON, it was-agreed that the question should be referred la a Select Committee on Monday next. Lord REDESDALE presented another Petition from the East bads Company, praying to be heard by Counsel. Lord DARNLEY regretted that be was under the necessity of postponing his motion relative to the Mismanagement in the Naval Administration: No subject could be of greater impor tance. and few more seriously called for investigation. But some Lords, who were &moue of being present at the discussion could not attend on Tuesday nest; and he therefore moved, that the order for summnnhig the Lords for that day should be dis charged, and tlist the Lords be summoned for Friday, the 9th of April, on whial d.y he proposed to bring forward his motion. Lord HOLLAND moved that the Lords be summoned for Friday, on the subject of the Shop-lifting Bill.—Ordered. Lord HARROWBY stated, that the further consideration of the Curates Bill stood for Friday. - - - • • The Sugar Bills and Waste Silk Bill were committel p awl re perted.-,-Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. CANNING inquired of his Right Hon, Friend opposite, (Mr. Grattan,) whether it was his intention to submit to the House the Bill for the relief of his Majesty's Roman Catholic Subjects before the Easter Holidays. He (Mr. Canning) thought It better to defer the bringing in of this Bill until after the recess, not only because the consideration of the East India Company's affairs would occupy a considerable portion of the intervening time, but st ill more as the Bill, by going before the public in rather an imperfect state, from its early introduction, might produce an unfavourable impression on the popular mind. Mr. GRATTAN expressed his concurrence with the views of his RiCt Hon. Friend, and would not bring in his Bill until after the holidays. Sir JOHN NEWPORT, fintling the Returns of the Port of ' London, though called for, had not been presented. gave notice, • 'that, unless some satisfactory reasons were o ff ered to the contrary, he lould move, to-morrow, that the Commissioners of Customs be summoned to the bar of the House. Mr. 'FIERNEY 'presented a Petition from the Parishioners of St. Pancras, against building a new Church.—Ordered to lie on the table . Sir S. ROMILLY postponed his Motion, for a Committee on ' the High Frea,on and Felony 8.11, till Monday next. The Kilmainham Hospital Bill was read a third time. Sir J. N I'WPORT postponed the Irish Schools' Bill to Thurs day, the 9..2c1 of Apr.l. Lord CA.; I' LER EAGH presented a Petition from the Cot ton Weavers in In land, praying that the same regulations as to Master and ;1:-.v.tnt shon:d be extended to them, as prevailed in the other parrs of the United Kingdom.—Ordered to lie on t he table. Mr. K. rnp from tl.e Mint, presented some moon's, porsuat:t to the Order of the liuuse.—Ordered to lie on the table. M. POLE CAREW moved flr leave to lirng In a BM in fertherance of a doe and efficacious discharge of the duties of Surveyors of Turnpike-rods. The motion was .tctnded in a short sperck by Mr. SHAW LEFEVRE.—Leave AVZVOJOUTIe VOTERS' BILL. Mr. Alderman i:TKINS moved the second reading of the Veyn:ouili Voters' Bill. Mr. W. WY NNE ctrt.pla'ned of the total want' of Informa tion upon th subject now brotiE.ht befnre the House. As it now stood, it appeared to be a d• ciaratury Bill, a:ic put a new con struction on the Sia'ute of Adam, regarciug conveyances by devise. If the. operation of the Bill would be expedient in the Borough of V'eynioutb, why not extend it to aL the other Bo roughs of the same description ? Mr. B. BATHISRS I . partly agreed with the Honourable Member who had just sat down. An Act was already In exist ence to prevent the spiittit.g of vutas by died ) bat the framers of that Act hail not foreseen the present ease. It might be a suffi cient remedy if the Act already paved were su amended as to comprehend cony( panes by tell as well as by deed. Mr. W. WYNNE wished to extend the But to all Borougha. Sir I. NEWPORI said, he held in his hand a Petition true certain Electors of the Borough of Weymouth, deprecat.ng the projected operation oft his Bill. The course of proceeding in the present instance was dJl..rent from that on all farmer occasions. We were proceeding to contract the elective tranehise, and dis qualify a considerable number of Electors for the offence of a few, without any gro:tnd of avowed or proved corruption. The object appeared to be to get rid of the franchise because it bad become inconvenient. But why may not this shadow be per mitted to exist as well as oaten, that, for instance, of Hazlemere 1. This House should rather study to enlarge than narrow the elec tive franchise. _ _ _ . _ _ TiIeAffORNEY-GENERAL conceived there would he ample opportunity for discussing this Bill in a funtre stage. All were adverse to it in its present form, but it might be improved in the Commtmee. Ihe House should be very jealous of admit ting any neveniodelling of Boroughs. Mr. Aidermaa A l KINS, in support of the Bill, stated the abuses in the rig ftt of vo•ing, where votes were split by sub-divi sions of .he most trifling sums. i lie Bill was then read a secord time, and ordered to be com mitted to-morrow. After a few words from Sir J. NEWPORT. Mr. B. BATHURST, VW Mr. \V. I,Vvv NC, it was ordered, that the several ertitions 021 the Subject be relerred to the same Committee. EAST INDIA AFFAIRS. On the motion of Lord CASTLEREAGH, the Order of tLe Day was read, and the House resolved into a Committee on the Aff.tirs (if the East India' Company—Mr. LUEIIINGTON in the Chair. Lord CASTLEREAGH, preirions is the calling in - of Mr. Hastings as a witn,ss, said, he hoped the House, considering the extreme age of that Gentle man, would have no objection to indulge him with a chair.— (Hear, hear.) Mr. HASTINGS was then called, and examined by Mr. ADAM (as Counsel), who stated, that the object of his examination would be to shew the dangerous consequences that were likely to result from the unre strained intercourse and se.jouti.ing of Europeans in India, and the improbability of being able to get the nitive population to take any quantity of our manu factures. The substance of his first question was, whether Mr. Hastings, whilst at Madras, could state the tact product•d by the residence of European so journers ? --Ammer. No particular effect was observ able frim the small number of Eat opeans not in the Corn pan ) 's servce. Q. Has the vs iti,Lss the means of stating what effect (add he prodUct..i by Europeans returning to Ind:a ithuut any kind of restraint ?—A. If Europeans , re alluwei to settle in India witnotic any kind of straint, the consequences %wait, be most ruinous to the tJOVeITIMOOL am! to the Company. No- • \ . - - • thing eonlclbe Mere incompatible thin the anthem Mint Members, the withal said that he belt of of an European and an Indian. The Indian was only two persons having been converted to the Chris.' weak in body and timid ill mind, and wholly without tian Religion in India, and that by a Missionary who that sense of shame that makes an European despise had been there introduced pith great pomp on the sheath. Cases, however, might occur, that would Parade. All the Missionaries whom he had known rouse the people to insurrection. In India, the name to go from England to this time, he understood to of an Englishman was his protection, and would be under the authority of the Government there, andl screen him from punishment for offences which be amenable to it for their conduct. From his own would not dare to commit at home. knowledge and experience, he conceived that unlf- Q. Does the witness think that the unrestrained censed preachers, or religious instructors, subject to liberty of Englishmen settling in India, would lead to no restraint by the Government, might be the cause tyranny and oppression t—A. It certainly would, and of much danger to our. establishments there. 14 on might prove fatal to the British power in India. The the other hand, they continued under the controul of strength of every Government must depend upon the the Government, he could foresee no danger which attachment of its people; this would probably pro- was to be apprehended from them, provided they did duce dissatisfaction, and might afford a temptation to not by their words or actions insult the religion of the neighbouring Powers to invade the territories of the natives. Were any English Missionary to offer the Company. any offence to those natives who believed in Maho q. Do you think it possible to restrain Europeans metanism, on account of their religion, during the not in the service of the Company, •to the chief settle. period he held the Government of India, be should ments ?—A. I thought that Europeans, not in the have instantly checked it. Missionaries licenald in service of the Company, might, by well-contrived India would always attract the jealous eye of Go regulations, be confined to the principal settlements, vernment, and thereby be prevented from pursuing and that the admission of a free trade would not a conduct contrary to the interests of the establish. only be innoxinus but beneficial ; but that opinion . meats ; but Preachers going licensed, and thereby was founded upon the supposition that the authority armed with full power, from this Country, Might of the Company would remain unchanged, and that - occasion unlimited mischief. . the subjects would not only be virtually, but legally ' Mr. CREEVY referred to some correspondence amenable to their authority. But should adventurers held by the witness in the year 1782 with the Court against the sense of the Company be empowered to of Directors, and asked him if he still entertained go to India, they would probably transgress the law some opinions which he then delivered for the guid. by which they were confined to the principal settle- ante of the Company's policy ? ments, and so disturb the peace of the Company.— I Mr. Hasrinus answered, that he could not then' The Company, indeed, had the power of sending them remember the object of that correspondence, but on prisoners to England, but that power might be eluded any part of it being shewn to him to refresh his me in various ways. • . raory., he would have no objection to give a positive. Q. Would opening the trade to all individuals ne- .answer.—[Mr. Hastings here apologised for the he. cessarily lead to such a concourse of Europeans to sitation with which he had replied to the ques:ions India as might be dangerous to the Government i which had been put during his examination. He there ?—A. Highly dangerous. I claimed the indulgence of the House for any inaccu- Q. Would not opening the trade to the outports be ' racy of which he might inadvertently be guilty, as prejudicial to the Country ?—A. I cannot speak to ;he was the less qualified for such an examnation on that, but the unrestrained liberty of Europeans going ' account. of the very advanced period of his life.] — out to India would be dangerous. I (Hear, hear, and cheering.) .Q. From your knowledge of the habits . and cha- 1 In answer to a question put by Sir H. MoNroo racter of the natives of India, dcr you think it likelylMEßY, witness could not state the political effect of there would be a demand of European commodities ' creating an established English Church in India. It fbr their own use ?—A. All the habits of the natives I was a question of great magnitude, and therefore be of India are simple. They are confined to their 1 felt afraid to say much upon it, only, if such a put dwellings ; their food they have from the soil, and at i pose was in agitation, he could wish another time had their own doori; they have scarcely any want of ap- I been chosen for the creation. Did not know of any parel, and what little they did want could be sup- i surmises having gone forth in India of an intention of plied without any cost. With the present state of j Government to force the Christian religion on the society in India lam not acquainted ; but the Hin- 1 consciences of our Indian subjects. Were such an doos did not want our commodities, and the Ma- intention to be carried into effect upon the native in hommedans were generally in a state of indigence. Pantry, he should very much fear the consequencesto I do not believe the demand would increase.. the European troops, on whom this country must al- Q. Do you know the mode in which the wealthy 1 ways depend as a last resort to quell any disturbances part of the natives dispose of their superfluous wealth? i which may in India arise. He conceived that in the —A. With no other difference from the wealthy part : success of any attempt to inculcate the Christian Re. of the community in other countries than what arises I legion into the minds of the natives, much would de-', from the mpdes of life—in dissipation, in state, in , pend upon the temper, conduct and demeanor of the pleasure. ipersons taking it in charge. He felt fully persuaded Q. Do they buy European commodities, or think ' that the union of the Sovereignty of India with the it a part of _luxury to have articles furnished from ' commerial interests of the Company, were crunpatible Europe ?—A. They have laces and broad cloths, and and beneficial to the native Indians. It afforded in some instances European furniture. - them means of exercising their industry to a weans Q. Q. Was this geheral, or confined to natives con- ' extent than they would otherwise have. In his opt nected with the European settlements ?—A. In Cal- nion an open trade with India would neither he be cutta, which I know best, European articles would ! neticial to the new adventurers nor the natives.— meet with a Furchaser. I Foreigners (Americans for instance) who could give Q. Is not the character of the natives stationary i higher prices than the Company for certain articles, and immutable ?—A. It certainly is stationary—l I might be permitted to bade to India as an indul. know not if it can be termed immutable. The Hirt- ' gence, but not conceded as a right, without injuring doo ;s nto.v in the same state in which lie was at the I our own establishments. Tile natives whoM he had comn.encement. of 'the present forge, as far back as : kiaown to have stressed - in English manufactures were the era of his 11;:tcuical existence. I very few indeed. In answer to a renew,:d question, 0. Are the nations who are in the habits of inter- the witness said, it would, in his opinion, be a must course w;th Europeans, about to • adoiit European ' dangerous experiment in English Missionaries to en hibits ? A. I have seen some instances of their: deaveur to convert the Indians to Chi istianity. by h av i ng done so, but they are few. treating their own religion with contempt. In that Q. Were liiiropean articles exposed for sale ? oopinion he was con fii riled from a knowledge that A. Certainly, in all the European settlements. ' there were, among the Mahumetans, bigo's as fero• Q Can you state the extent of the sale? A. No; I cious as any which had apreattd in litll 01)C, whose hut I should think Europeans would be the chief religious quarrels had more than once threatened the purchasers. I security ot the Indian Government. Mr. HasTtecs's examination by Mr. ADAM having' Mr. Hastings was then permitted too withdraw.— terminate2l, he requested permission of the House to ; His appearance ind-cated great age, blit he gave his make some observations -relative to the unrestrained • answers clear and pi onipt, but in a low to..e of voice. . intercourse with India of Europeans not in the service i We understand him to be in the 84th year of his age, of the Company. With regard to the opinion he had I yet, although he was nearly tour hours under ex 'gni. expressed on that subject, a suspicion might be en-, n aion, he declined the indulgence.olFered him by the tertained that he was under a bias in favour of the' Committee of postponing aiiy pat ot his evidence to ; East India Company. He wished to obviate the pro. ! a future day. bability of such a supposition against the credit of j The Right Hon. Lord . TEIGNaroUTH was the next his evidence. He certainly had an attachment to the witness called. He had peen between thirty and forty Company, and was grateful to the service that had : years :n the service of the List India Company, and given him bread, and employment to whatever he four years and a half Governor-General, residing pos'srssed of talent, during the whole of the active chiefly at Bengal. lie understood the common kn.! period of his life ; but his opinions on the subject of guage of Indostan, with the Persian and' Arabic. such intercourse had not been drawn from recent cc. ' From his knowledge and experience, he thought an turrences. Twenty years ago lie had addressed a unrestrained influx of Europeans into India, if per. letter to the Chairman of the Court of Directors, in mitted. would prove prejudicial to themselves as well which, as far as he could trust to his recollection, lie as to the natives. Strangers must be unacquainted had strongly urged the necessity of providing against ' with the habits of the Indians, and there would be the irruption of B:itish adventurers into Indiabeyond great danger of their getting into the. interior of the the bounds of our settlements, as they would disturb country. The number of adventurers from Britain to the peace of the country. The copy of the letter lie India would, if left to their own discretion. be very. had either Lost or mislaid, and only mentioned it to great when a permission should be granted, but the skew that he Lad advanced no novel doctrine in the losses and disappointments which, many would feel, course of his examination. The letter had been ap-; would, in time, in a great measure diminish them. It proved by the then President of the Board of Control, ' would be very difficult, but not altogether impraCti ( Mr. Dundas), a man of whom (if it might be said cable, to keep them from penetrating into the inter of any man) it might be said, that he wanted no lights rior, and many might contrive to gain a residence; from the judgment of another to aid his own, and it there, but one general consequence would result from would be the height of arrogance in him to suppose it—from their ignorance of die character of the ma ize could claim any share of the merit ; he only with- , rives, they would depreciate the European character ed to shew how early his opinions were formed. It in the eyes of a population exceeding the number of had then beeUenacted, That no Bri:ish subject, nut Europeans in India in the proportion of 2000 to 1000. in the service of the Company, shouki be allowed to Another inconvenience would result from the irritable reside in. India without a special licence, either from : temper of the native Indians, which might be easily the Company at home, or the Government in India. i -atlected by the unguarded conduct of men ignorant On the 12th of March, 1802, he had addressed a re- of their dispositions. The power of the British Go monstrance to the Directors against the exception to vernment in India was, in a great measure, support the general law, as likely to produce much disorder. ed by the opinion entertained by the natives of rs In February last, he Lad strongly remonstrated ; strength. The difficulty of restraining adventurers against the exception, and einoret,i his opinion with ! from penetrating into the interior would be in pup a qu:itation from his letter of 180'2. The first letter • portion to their numbers, but a judicious exercise of would slew, that this had always been his opinion, authority would overcome it. His Lordship did not ant, it was in the pr'ssesskin of the .oirectorr. • , think that persons sent into the interior for the pur- Mr. PASCOE GItEi , .FELL asked it Mr. Hast- : pose of trading, would increase the consumption of ings, during Lis residence it: India, knew of any Mis- : European articles. He knew of only a few suer sionaries having been employed in converting the i articles used, or likely to be used, by the natives. So natives to Christianity ?—Answer, 44 I did." I far as the consumption required, he was not aware In answer to a number of interrogatoim put by ' of any article of European product which was not already provided by the Company, u the trade wad now carried on. In some instances, he knew a Tew natives, in compliment to the English whom they were entertaining, using articles of English furniture, but their example had not been imitated. In regard to the great mass of the population, they had not these means of indulging a desire, if they had it, of using articles of English manufacture. The exper.- &cure they incurred was not directed to the purchase of European articles. In answer to questions put by several Membeis, his Lordship said, the practice of preaching publicly against the Mabometan Religion would, if established, be attended with great danger; but he Ilid not eonceive such a practice necessary at all for converting the Indiana to Christianity. If Missionaries going to India conducted themselves in conformity to the doctrines which they preached, they would give no offence to the natives. He had read an hccount of a Danish mission, which went to preach the Gospel on the Malabar coast, in the year 1717. They acted on the principle which he stated, and no ill consequence followed it. Indiscreet zeal In cue. verting might be dangerous, but with judiciousness end prudence, he thought the conversion of the .Indians would effectually succeeed. He did not think it advisable to establish a supeihr Clergyman in India, for the purpose of licensing the inferior. He conceived it more advisable that the power of licensing preachers should be vested in the Go vernment. He never learnt in India that an opi nion prevailed there of the British entertaining an intention of overturning their religion, for the pur pose of introducing the Christian religion ; or that the mutiny at Vain., where a regiment of Euro peans were massacred, had occurred in consequence of such an opinion. prevailing among the Indians. He had read the assertion an print in England, !rat from the inquiries which he had m tde he was satis fied of its falsity, and he exposed it in a pamphlet, which did not bear his name, but was well known t.f be his production, intitled, Considaratinns on the Policy, Practicability, and Obligation of converting the Indians." The appointment of a Bishop in In dia wowid be viewed by the natives, he conceived, with perfect indifference. He heard of English Mis sionaries having been at Bengal when he was there, but had no peasoual knowledge of any of thews Did not think that an Act of Parliament which would empower Preachers to teach Christianity in India ' would enable the agents of 'France, or any other boo. tile power, to excite the Hanle of insurrection there. The Government in India shewed every mark of; re. ,spect to the religion of the people, and punished any person who infringed it. Any thing Kite a compul sory law in regard to religion would be productive of danger, but conversion by conferences might succeed better than public preaching under the sanction of an Act of Parliament. He (Lord Teignmouth) thinks a stranger might get into India, but can go no where, so as te s tae beyond the cognizance of thepolice—thinks a stranger cannot enter the interior without a license from a Magistrate at the port where he lands.— Only the head governor can give those licences. It is impossible for any considerable number of persons to Liner the interior of India, so as to evade the police. Cannot state the stipulations for the admission of B:itish subjects into India. Thinks the use of our woollens beyond the reach of the great mass of the population of India, from the low rate cf wages tot labour. Cannot state whether it would require more or less. than three shillings a month to clothe a single person. The moral character of the Indians is very low, as compared with the standard of European Christians. Their most prominent vices are fraud, duplicity, and servility—probably caused by the ture of their old Governments, as the only gaard against extortion. Their religion is not calculated to correct the vices of their character. Their pracdco of burning widows at the tuner I pile of their hus bands he cannot state to be vet y prevalent from his own, knowledge, but has been informed by persons of credit that it is such. infanticide not very corn. mon, it is prohibited by the tegulations of the Bengal Government. They sometimes immolated them. selves at the festival of Jaggernaut, by lying Foss traie under the wheels of carts. The Brabmsnical Law confers certain exemption on that cart. The murder of a brahmin by a person of another caste is not punished in the same manner as that of a person of an inferior caste by,a Brahmin ; to kill a Brahmin is deemed an inexpiable crime. The Brahmins same. ti mes do threaten to murder themselves,for the purpose of throwing the imputation of an inexpiable crime on a person of inferior caste. The Guam Law is perhaps not an insuperable, but certainly a great obstacle to ' their advancement in civilisation and moral character. Rnows little of the condition of the female sex, from the state of seclusion in which they are kept. Thinks Christianity would improve their civil condition.—ls not aware of any efforts on the part of the Company for its propagation.-r-The discreet conduct of the Missionaries, as hitherto pursued, would not injure the British interests in India.—He has discovered, in the course of his reading, not from personal know le 'ge, that other nations, the Danes, Dutch, and Portuguese, exerted themselves In the propagation of l ithe Christian Religion without producing any injury or inconvenience. —He does not know that the int ' provement of their civil condition would tend to in• crease their consumption of the produce of their own or other country.--The translation of the Sacred Scriptures for them would not be productive of any danger. The propagation of Christianity is not discota raged by the Indian Government. He oelievesi the Missionary.Schwarts was in great credit aids the Ra. jah and people of Tanjore. Lord Teignmouth's examination having been clos ed, he requested the indulgence of the House fvr the manner in which his answers were given, as ire thought the questions of a nature to require some days previous consideration. - Mr. SPEAKER having resumed the Chair, Mr. LUNIIHGToN reported progress, and was allowed to sit again to-morrow, on au understanding, as sup Bested by Lord CASTLEREAGH, that the examination of witnesses should be entered' upcon at an early hour each day, and continue for three hours, after which the House might dispose of cLe other business. A MeatsEit asked if the Noble Lord thought it would be possible to get through with the examine. Lions before the system Lord CASTLIREAGH said, the House could best judge of this. For himself, he was by no means sanguine in his expectations on this head. Adjourned at half-past Twelve.