Star. — London, England, 1820-09-19 00:00:00

for the Queen bad said, that it would be a great hardship 'if she were not allowed to go into her defence, and he had ,conse . queatly withdrawn his support from that motion. But the fact was, as it now appeared, that though the whole of the case agaiust the Queen was gone through, the injuries she had suf- feted were so great, that the evidence against her went, in the opi nion of the Public, for nothing. The people had seen the Queen charged with a crone that was no crime by law ; menaced with an Act that was at once to make the crime and pronounce the judgment on it ; they had seen her negociated with and threat ened alternately; they had seen her formerly tented out .of her house ; they bad seen her almost compelled to leave this coun try ; they had seen her, when abroad, followed by spies, all her actions watched, attacked by a confederacy of all the Powers of Europe—[lord Castlereagh dissented].—The Noble Lord ' might shake his head at this, but he (Mr. Creevey) had attended to the eviarace as far as it had gone in the house of Lords; he • bad heard from the mouths of the witnesses, that such and such Ministers and Ambassadors bad requested them, and had threat ened to use force to induce them to come here. They had seen the day in which the resources of England had been lavished on 'the witnesses; and they felt convinced that the sante powers ilett were set in motion to bring hither evide.ice against the Queen, would be employed to keep back the witnesses in her lavoar. Such were the cahunities whirh were heaped on an in sdividuale7on a woman--that woman too a Qeocen—a l', incurs tit' the House of Brunswick—(Hear, scar).—'These thine could not be known without arousing the warmest and most lasting iedigration. 'The fact was, political questions were comparatively matter of a day, but violations of the principles of justice were never forgotten—(Hear, bear).—Why but for this was it that now, at the distance of nearly two hundred years, the name of Hampden, a plain country Gentleman, who had defended his propetty ageinse the arbitrary orders of the Court, was still famous among all Englishmen ?—Why was it but from the vit t:Airy and corruption of the Judge' who had sanctioned the pro ceedings, that he was in the mouth of every one who could read the Englishlanguage?—That was a proceeding against a private man. Did the Noble Lord think that these proceedings against the Queen would excite a feeling less intense or less durable?-- (Hear, hear).—lliti he think that it was nothing to set the Alas tocracy :against the middle and lower classes of the tuition? lie was not one of tho s e who thimghtfightly of the Aristoc racy;' they were identified with all that had been gained for liberty iu this country, and he wished to see them continue to be thus identified ; but he was sorry to say, that as far as they had gone, they injured themselves iu public esteem, and he believed the Aristocracy to be in the wrong, and the great body of the people In the right—(Hoar, hear).—Would not the Noble Lord rather harp the Ariuucracy and the People united, than separate them r.s they ware separated on this question—(lient, iitair).—The LOA elect - riled as it went on every institution in the country. It professed te deg rade the Queen. It had degrade.! the House of 1, - ..rets—://ear,kair).—Ttie Lti4hops were seated to hear evi eteice which eye' y nt...st..r of a family would hide carefully from the sigie of his sons or daughters--(Rear, hear).—Had not the Neble Lori, too, seen in the published accuuntauf the evidence, tae notices of the cheers of the Judges when anything came out which seeraed to prentute the case against the Quern.--(LOrd Cascleneeh iatinette‘l hit dissent]. lie (Mr. Ctetvey) bad beard thew chsers with his own eats. 1k had been a witness of thet tri.:htful eetnaition. He had heard the Counsel repria "nianciirg the Judges—a/leer, (war, !tuts sllear!er on Vie JJaris feria el le 11 lie did not arsOW what the Honourable Men:!rer ottani, but he would ask whether it was not a repri mand, end whether it must nut hay, been felt a.. a degradation to that .Is•eninly, ‘k hen the Counsel fair the Queen asked what was the meaning of those acclamations? Did he nut think that a. ch an event was sincerely to be deplored? 'lbis was a real degradation to the Aristocracy. Then cause the intimation that the Divorce Clause was to be given up. This intimation was given at a time whet. it wea apprehended that recrimivation. which was inseparable trent the measure, in whateaer way at was urged, ( night be resorted t o . Th e Honourable Alen.ber fur bbeewsoury heti justly observed, that whatever had been said of the King in :the House, or still more strongly out of the Howse, dui nut actaally degrade the King half so much as this attempt to witharew the Divorce Ana). The next Establishment that was to be degraded was the House of Commix's. If the Bid, by any misfortune, should come to them, in nitre situation would they be? They were a Jury of az honored, witkeut the power of administering the oath. He did not complain iif this, but such was the law. The only autho lary to whim they could appeal would be that of the Chairman of the Committee of Ways and Atari. During the time he had attended the Howe of 'Lord*, he had seen the Judges retire tvco or three times a day to instruct the House, in which there wets four learned persons who lad tilled the office of Lord Chancel air. What c uld they do in that Home without the assistance ef any Judges, and withont any legal authtJuity other than that of the worthy Chairman (Mr. Brogeleo)? Ile hoped that this • ificulty would never be brought home to them; and he felt not only justified, but ailxious to vote with the Hon. Member for Westminster, for an Address to prorogue the Parliament. Be should vote for the Motion, from his anxiety to preserve a respect for the administration of justice and veneration for the I.ws.—( Hear, hear). • Mr PETER MOORE lamented that the Motion of the Ilo nourahle Member for Cambridgeshire (Lord F. Osborne), on a timer occasioo, had not been carried into effect. The objec tion that was then made to the Motion was, that as the evidence had began , it was fit it should be carried through. lie had not tarn; h t that argument conclusive, and he should vote for the .amendment of • the HonourableMember-for Westminster, on the treeeet occasion, as he had now the satisfaction of being stren b -thened in his opinion by all his Constituents : The Noble Lord t eked of justice and the character of the country. Who was it that bad inflicted the wound on the character of the country and of justice? A day of reckoning would comes when a little more would he known of the proceedings. The feeling of the Public, on the perusal of the evidence, was, that it was as dark and foal a conspiracy as ever existed against the Queen, and that his Majesty's alinisters were at the bottom of it. The country was persuaded, that till their afiairs were out of the lands of those men, there was no security fur persons, or pro perty, or laws. or Constitution. What was the judicatory in this esse?—who was the prosecutor? As in 1806, there was a child withent a fither, so there was now a Counsel who could not tell wheetttr toyed him:— Who had drawn up the Bill? If a public ooh ea 1, why did he not come forward and avow him self? The Attorney-General said, that he acted under the House of Lards; but he did not know how they could Live any direction tiil an accusation was preferred. These things bad raised the eublic mind to a conviction that the proceedings ought to be put down. The Bill of Pains and Penalties might be ap plied as well to get rid of any other of the High Dignitaries of the State. The next Bill might be to get rid of the King. or the Bench of Bishops, or the House of Lords, triad the whole Aris tocracy. Ile lamented that the proceedings had not lung ago been put a stop to. Ile bad received a letter from a very end- Letn professional Gentleman, who said, that by this mockery of justice, the victories of Nelson and Wellingtort, and the glories .•1 England, were souk for esa r !—(el high).—The measure was, it Lis opinion, full of danger to the State, and he hoped it would b: at once stayed, for the reasons be had assigned (Hear, hear). Mr. ELLICE said, he was sorry to differ from his Honour able Colleague, and if. he could, with any principle of justice, row put an end to the case, or if, by any sacrifice of his own opinion, he could cause the proceedings to be dropped, be should nillergly do so. Bat as he saw no probability that his /lon :ar able Friend would induce the House to agree with him, he could not help expressing what he felt—that, after the evidence against the Illustrious Individual which had been offered, he should be guilty of the grossest injustice if he did net allow her to offer evidence to rebut the charges, and to prove, if possible, that they originated in what some I lonourable Gentlemen had said, a foul e.tnspiracy—(lieur, heuri.—For these reasons, though he felt bow desirable it was that these proceedings should never have commenced, he coalti not now vote for the Amendment of his llouourable Friend (34. llubhouse). But he could say thus tetuch, that if the Bill were ever, as he hcped it would not be, beaten down trom the other House, he should oppose it on the principle that no Bill of Pablo and Penalties should he tolerated where the public interest did nut manifestly require it. Sr M. IV. RIDLEY said, he felt that it was unnt cessary for tam to state his opinions after the speech of his 1-lonourable Prield (Mr. Ellice), in which be fully concurred. In one of the Ps.Feld a statement had been made, on which he was anxious to he.,r some explanation. At a Public Meeting it had been said by all Ilunourable Baronet (Sir G. I(liiel),.that he had received a letter from a %firth) , Alderman,. tlit'iltletnier fur the City of London (Mr. Alderman Wood) k •viho state that her Majesty lim4 been left Witt of money for her defence. He hoped this natsitot originated in mistake. The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER said he was kappy to assure the Hon. liaronet i , that every sum which her /dayesty's legal advisers applied for had been issued, and that toy bad been imfurmed, that whatesa they might apply for hereafter, would be 'issued, subject only to such an account as they might be emlbled to give hereafter. Sir M. W. RIDLEY asked whether the Chancellor of the Exchequer would object to produce an account of the sums, with the dates, which he would move for ? Pig, CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the sum issued was £20,000. Sir M. W. RIDLEY—What were the dates of the issues? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not exactly remember. The first sum of £lo,ooo bad been issued just about the beginning of the trial, the other sum of £lO,OOO .:bout three weeks ago. Mr. HC M E said, he wished to know how many days had• elapsed between the application for the money and the issue of it. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, no fur ther time had intervened than the forms of office rendered necessary. Mr. WHITBREAD said he should support the Amendment, because he had never been able to see to what good the Bill of Pains and Penalties tended. All public ground had been cut away from under the measure at its commencement, by the vote of that House. They were told by some, that it was ne cessary to the morals of the count' y, but he should be glad to kunw whether the morals of the country would have been bet ter served by suppressing, or by sending abroad such evidence as that which had been adduced before the Lords?-41 they were to search, to ferret after immorality, for the purpose of exposing and punishing it, he feared they would have the con duct of others to inquire into beside that of the Queen—( Hear, hear). High as the station of Queen was, there were persons as high, if not higher than the Queen, whose conduct would form the subject of inquiry•, if they were to inquire into all immo rality. He should, to avoid such a consequence, vote to stop the proceedim; at any stage of it, and as soon as the present mo tion was disposed of, in whatever way, he should make a motion as to the costs of the proceedings. Mr. MONCK aaki, he thought the House of Commons had a right to interfere when it saw the House of Lords acting in an unconstitutional manner, and the practice had been to pray the Crown to prorogue' the Parliament. There was ore very me= morable case of this kind, when the House of Lords, in a question between the India Company and an individual, assumed an unconatitutional power, and when the House of Commons prayed for and obtained a prorogation. The motion was there fore regular, but he could not on the present occasion support it. Ile agieed that the inquiry was prejudicial to the interests of the country. But, as the Member fur Shrewsbury had said, the treason had done its utmost, the poison had been spread, and he felt desirous that •the Queen should be allowed, as he hoped and believed she would be able, to rebut the charges against her. He could not forget, too, that independently of the question of the incontinence of the Queen, there was another question to be ' tried—Whether the Ministers had acted justifiably ? And if it should be shewn that they had built their charges on persons who weir not creditable in their own country—ii they had built .them on the loss est dregs of society in Italy, a case of guilt was established against the Ministers—(Heor !). Sir GERARD NOEL said, he should vote for the Amend ment, as the means of putting an end to the Bill of Pains and Penalties, the principle of which had not been.heard of since the time of James 11. Mr. Alderman HEYGATE said he remained of the same' opinion as when he had voted for the motion of the Ilonourable M ember for Brainber, that the inquiry was injurious to the country, and sheind, on no account, have been brought for ward. But it was one thing to krevent an inquiry, another to stop it wit;:u it was commenced. lie now thought it would not be fair to either of the parties to interfere at this stage. No measure could be substituted fur the Bill, till both parties bad fairly been heard in the House of Lords. There was a point connected with this subject, to which he could not but advert. Ile war astonished that any one who professed to love liberty should encourage the interference of the military in political matters, as it was evident that the soldiery who aided the cause of liberty to-day might to-morrow be mined against it. Ile did not doubt the allegiance of the British troops; but as their was no evil out of which good did not arise, he hoped that the inter ference of the troops on the Continent with politics would induce Government. is teenier their military establishments, and resort to amore constitutional species of force. Mr. K. DOUGLAS said, the alarm in which tbe.country was kept was less owing to any dread of the troops than to the Press. Ile thought the /louse should not prorogue without Ric Government spewing that it was disposed to cheek its industry... ! (clear! heat! from eke Ontosition).—lle spoke honestly, though his of vations might be very imperfect. The Adtiresses pr.:, sensed to the Queen were of a very violent nature.—lle had seen the agitation of the Metropolis when the body of seamen had passed through; not that any riot had ensued; but when a number of men met together, they were liable to bad passions, ani danger might ensue. There was a Meeting on Monday, at which many thousands of persons were likely to attend ; great alarm existed, and very considerable inconvenience was likely to arise. How they were to be suppressed he did not see, but the: Governuient should come forward, and assure the country, that as far as legitimate power could be exercised to suppress them, they would take care that there should be no fear the popular feeling should go so far as to be dangerous to the Buil liltiollS of the country. Mr. BERNAL said; that bad he not known what question was before the House, he should have thought that the Honour able Member had been - engaged in advocating the Seditious Meetings' or the Libel Bill—(Near)—or recommending some similar new nefarious measures for the abridgment of general liberty--(Hear, kcar).—Now, though what that lion. Merober most dreaded was the Public Press, its great influence, and the talent by which it was conducted, the House of Lords were not actuated by such feelings when they did trot adopt the order, at the commencement of the evidence, ordinarily made in Courts of Justice—(Heur,hear)—but permitted the evidence against the Queen, though it was calculated to do her great injury, to be published iii the Newspapers—(Hear, hair).—The liberty of the Press ought to be cherished by every lover of his country and its Constitution, and if it produced such great benefits, as was allowed by all, they ought to be prepared to bear with a little occasional bet:me—(Hear, hear). The cries for a division being then very loud, Mr. HOBHOGSE obierved, that, being a young Member, he should not press a division, did he not think that there was no case made out for the ,Queen to defend herself against. • The House then divided.' The numbers were : For the. Amendment Against it Majority PETITION FROM THE COUNTY' OF NORFOLK. Me. COKE presented a Petition from the Freeholders of the County of Norfolk against the Bill of l'ains and Penalties. The Petition was numerously signed, and set forth that the subsea hers to it considered the refusal to grant her Alajesty a list of witnesses, or a specification of times or places, as contrary to the spirit of British justice. It concluded by intreating the House, as it va!ued its own character, to reject the Bill of Pain* and Penalties against her Majesty when it should come before them. NEW WRIT FOR ABERDEEN. Course of the evidence. ' It appeaivd that some of the witnesses Ihad received very large sums of money, and be thought. his Majesty's Ministers, so far from opposing his motion, would be glad of an opportunity of' removing part of the odium attached to the proceedings, by shewing that the expenditure could be properly accounted for. He should include in his motion an account of all the expenses incurred by the persons composing the Milan Commission—a Commission which, in his opinion, reflected anything but honour upon the Ministers who employed them, and the country with which they were connected. He should move for an account of all the expenses incurred from the period of her Majesty's departure from England. in 1814, up to the present time, hi the prosecution now carrying on against the Queen, including all sums expended by our Ministers in foreign Courts, and all sums paid on account of the Milan Commission. Lord C A sTLE REA GH said, tipit if the motion of the ho nourable Gentleman had merely for its object to ascertain the gross amount of the expenditure incurred in the. proceedings against her Majesty, it might have been acceded to olhout any serious inconvenience, though at the present moment such an aCCOUCt was nut, perhaps, very juoiciously called for, since it could not but be extremely unsatistactery. The Hon. Gentleman, however, had distinctly stated to the House, that he made this motion with a view of getting all the details of expenditure, and subjecting them to an adverse examination, for the purpose of mice:netting whether any sums had been improperly or crimi nally applied. Now, to whatever extent the House might here. after think it necessary to go into such an inquiry, and on the part of i.is Majesty's Government, he was sure that every di.- position existed to furnish the fullest information, yet the pre- . sent was certainly not the proper moment for an investigation of this nature. As to auditing the accounts, he th'.eght the ex penses incurred either in the prosecution or for the defence, could never be audited upon any satisfactory principle in that House. With respect to the expenses of the Anhui Commis sion, it was the wish of his Majesty's Government that these as weU as all the other expenses, should be subjected to the same audit as was applicable to her Majesty's expenses. Both ought to undergo such an examination at the proper season, as the na tore of the case admitted. The motion of the Ilonourable Gen tleman was altogether premature, as the vouchers were not at present in a state of readiness, and he should beg leave, there fore, to move the previous question. Mr. WI I ITII,REA L observed, that a motion similar to that which he had just made had been made in the other Louse, with reference to the Qtien's expenses, the amount of which was a mere trifle compared with the expenses of the prosecu tion. Now, if the present was not an inconvenient period for one motion, he conceived it could not be an inconvenient period fur the other. Lord CASTLEREAGH said, it was perfectly understood that the motion in the other I louse of Parliament was made not for the purpose of examining the accounts, but merely with a view of as ce rt a i ii i iig the gross amount of the ex penditure. To such a motion there could be no objection, though, for the rea sons he had already stated,the account must necessarily be very Unsatisfactory. Mr. BENNETT wished to ask the Noble Lord from what fund theae sums of money had been drawn ? The Noble Lord Lhad said, on a former occasion, that the l)eke of Cornwall had A right to inquire into the conduct of his wife. Now, if he had ra right to inquire into the conduct of the Duchess of Cornwall, he (.fir. Bennett) conceived he bad also a right to pay the ex peeaes. He hoped tbe Right Honourable Gentleman nr the Noble Lora would inform the House from what fund, whether large or smal!, the expenses of this Inquiry were to be paid? Lord CAS TLEREA GII said, that the expenses which had been incurred abroad-were properly charged out of the Secret Service money ; but from the moment the Investigation assumed the character of a Public Inquiry it wonld be charged among the Civil Contingencies. Ilis Majesty's Ministers were prepared to submit all the items charged out of the Secret Service money to 'the same audit as every other part of the expenditure. !Me: HUME said he recollected when the vote for Secret Ser vice Money passed, he put a question to the Noble Lord ex pressly for the purpose of ascertaining whether any part of the large:eum then voted Lad been applied to this object,,and he had been unable to obtain any distinct answer from the Noble Lord. ' Ile was astonished to hear it now avowed by the Noble Lord, that his Majesty's Ministers had dared to take this money arid employ it for the dirty purposes to which it was now ad mitted to have been applied. Lord CASTLEREA Olt recollected that the Honourable Gentleman had put a question to hips as to the gloss amount of Secret Service Money, and that he stated upon that occasion that half the whole sum charged was due out of the last year. In fact, the whole amount did slot exceed £e 000 or £9,000 in any one year. Considering the nature of the inquiry, it was de. 'kaiak - to conduct it with as much sea esy as passible, and the fund which had been resorted to was precisely that which was best calculated to meet the expenditure. Mr. Al A BER LEY was bf no means satisfied with the ex planation of the Noble Lord. Mr. CREEVEI said, it was furnishing a dangerous prece dent to take money out of this fund Without a vote of the House. Mr. HUSKISSON said, that these sums were properly charged upon the Civil Contingencies. The fund expressly pro vided for such expenses of a civil nature as could not be made matter of estimate. Mr. CREEVEY said, the granting of this money was one of the many anomalies of this proceeding. The Noble Lord was of opinion e tbat the secret service money was precisely the fund out of which the expenses should be defrayed; but be (Mr. C.) could not help thinkieg, that if secret service money were de voted to such a purpose, there was no one object to which it might not, with equal propriety, be applied. Could the House think it had ever entered Mr. Burke's contemplation that secret service money would be employed for the purpose of keeping the King's wife abroad? If so, it was high time that the Act for regulating its application should berevised, and that some security should be afforded against so gross a misapplication of, that fund. It was a mere private proceeding, 'wither more nor less, and he protested against burthenirig the Public with any part ()tithe expense. Mr. BENNETT wished to know at what precise period the Noble Lord deemed the proceeding to be one to which secret service money was no loner applicable? Lord CASTLEREAGH said, the proceeding became of a I public nature from the time the Message was sent down to both houses of Parliament. The sums taken from the fund for secret service would be laid before Parliament in the same manner as the expenses incurred for the defence of her Majesty. Mr. HUME wished to know, whether the ,Milan Commis sion had acted from the outset under the sane ' and with the approbation of his Majesty's Government? Lord CA STLEREA G II said, the inquiry had certainly been conducted from the commencement with the full knowledge and approbation of Government. Sir GERARD NOEL said, his decided opinion then was, that the House would act criminally, if it consented to burthen the Public with one shilling of We expenses. Lord CASTLEREAGH said he was ready to agree to a' motion for an account of the expenses incurred on both sides in the proceeding now pending against the Queen, as far as the same could be made out. Sir G. WAR RENDER moved fora new Writ for a Mem ber to serve in Parliament for the County of Aberdeen, in the room of J. Ferguson, Esq. ciccgawd. KROUS, THE COURIER. Sir ROBERT WILSON, seeing the Noble Lord in his place, wished to ask a question upon a circumstance, which be conceived to require sonic explanation. He understood that a man of. the name of Krous had been employed by the Milan Commission, not as a Courier of 3overnment, but as an extra courier, and that upon one occasion, when he was on his way hum Milan to England, he was detained at Paris upon a charge Qf havinE, attempted to utter forged English notes to the amount of 2t 510. Having stated that he had received the notes at Milan, the French Government had sent thither to ascertain the fact, and the man was in the meantime to remain in prison. It had been said, that though the individual could not be found, from whom Krous had stated be bad received the notes, yet he had been released at the instance of the British Ambassador, Sir Charles Stuart. Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that the individual alluded to had been long employed by Goverrment, and had brought dis patches from Milan. The character.of the man had since been why justified, the French Government having abandoned the charge, and he was now reinstated in Ibis employment. EXPENSE OF THE PROCEEDINGS AGAINST THE QUEEN. 111 r. WIIITIiREAIJ rose to move for an account of all the monies expended in the prosecution of the IRII of Pains and Penalties against her Majesty. At any other time he should have felt himself bound to conform to the regulations of the House, by giving the usual notice of this motion. He could not, however, conceive that any opposition could be made to this motion, and he was induced to make it at the pretest momora In consequence of the circumstances which had come out in the Mr. R. DOUGLAS said, the Honourable Gentletnan had entirely mistake's the scope of his observations. He bad ex pressed no opinion as to the necessity of restraining the liberty of the Press, but he had said what, as a Member of Parliament, he had a right to say, that the object of a part of the Press seemed to be to intimidate Parliament. Fur his own part, be would never he deterred by that, or any other consideration, from acting in the manner which he thought consistett with justice and propriety. Mr. CSIi.ISSON said, that the lion. Gentleman appeared to allude to him, as having stated on a (ensure occasion that the plate in question could not he disposed of by any act of the late King. The lion. Gentleman had awed, not indeed of his own knowledge, tit it this plate was now in the hands of an indivi dual. He was ready to admit, that if this could have been ,shewn to be the case, nothing could be more irregular and cen surable. Ile felt persuaded that such a statement must be ut terly unfounded, and upon applying to his Hon. Friends Lear Lim, he found that the plate alluded to had never been out of the custody of the Lord hamberlain since it was rector( dto him upon her Majesty's departure from this country. Whether any plate with the Royal arms stamped u 1 on it, was or was nut in the possession of an individual, was a fact which he was un able to determine. It might happen that an individual was in possession of plate of this description, without such plate having been pre iieeted by his Majesty. lie repeated, that no plate belong ing tothe Crown, acid purchased out of the money charged on the Civil Last, could be granted by the King as personal property. Mr. IIUMI eapre.:sed himself satisfied with the exile:la:ion of the Right Hon. Gentleman. There was one part of his state ment which the Right Hon. Gentleman had misunderstood, and which lie wished to correct. He had not said that the plate was, but that it had been in the possession of Mr. Street, PORTUGA Mr. HUME said, that in consequence of various reports of an alarming nature, he wished to know from the Noble Lord op posite, the uature of the relations which subsisted at the present moment between this country ;eel Portugal? Lord CASTLERF:AGH thought it could scarcely be ex pected that he should express any opinion upon such vague ru incurs as those alluded to by the Honourable Member, or that the :Members of his Majesty's Government should be called upon tc give au opinion upon evens which had recently occurred, and with regard to whi.lethey hail in tact received no authentic information. He hoped that this would be deemed a sufficient answer to the Honourable Member's question. Mr. BROGDEN brought up the Report i f the Committee appointed to examine the Lords' Journals with respect to the Queen, which Report described the state of those proceedings upon the adjournment of their Lordships' House. Upon-the-Report being read, Lord CASTLEREAGH moved, that the House should at its rising adjourn to Tuesday, the 17th of October. By that day he calculated that the House would be able to find its way, and to determine, from the proceedings of the other House, to what farther period it might be expedient to adjourn. If the Bill of Pains and Penalties should come down from the other House, it would he obviously desirable that that House should be called over, with a view to render the attendance as full as possible; and, therefore, he thought it proper to mention his intention to r opose that the House should be called ove r ear l y i n N ovem b er . !'his he stated now, in order that Members might be in readi ness to attend within the period of three weeks after the day to which his present motion referred.' Mr. II h: asked, whether the Noble Lord had received any communication as to the probable extent of the Defence for the Queen, or what time it was likely to occupy? Because, if the Noble Lord had had nu such information, he might be-pro posing to assemble the House to no purpose, bat merely that of a further adjournment. Lord CASTLEREAGH observed, that he wished the House to be left open for the exercise of its own discretion as to the period of any farther adjournment. If the Bill of Pains and Penalties should be brought down from the other House, it was his present intention to move a farther adjournment to the sth or 10th November, and that the House should be then called over. Mr. HUME thought, that if it were possible., the adjourn. ment should now be fixed for such a period as should afford the Lords an opportunity of deciding upon the fate of the Bill of Pains and Penalties. This he conceived the better mode of comulting the. convenience of the House, and therefore he took leave to suggest to the Noble Lord the propriety of fixing upon some more distant day. Lord CASTLEREAGH conceived it more advisable to ad journ to the day stated in the motion, and then it would b.. open to the House to fix upon some day in November wile.; it might be convenient to meet for the dispatch of business llis view was, he repeated, that if the Bill of Pains and Penalties should be adopted by the other house, that Assembly should lie called over within three weeks afterwards, as in a case of such delicacy it was obvious!) , necessary that as little delay as possible should be allowed to take place. Sir GERARD NOEL could not think what the Noble Lord meant when he talked of delicacy in this business. Surely he did not mean to say that his Majesty'a Ministers had treated the House delicately respecting it. On the contrary, they had treated the House just as a huntsman did a pack of hounds—they turned them out, and whipped them in, just as they wanted them—(laughter). Lord F. OSBORNE took occasion to ask the Noble Lord, whether it was the intention of his Majesty's Government, as he understood, to omit the 2lause of Divorce in the Bill of Pains and Penalties? It was said, that in conformity with the opinion of certain religious persons, such an intention existed ; and that the Noble Lord at the head of the Administratior, than whom a more religious, moral, and honourable man was not to be foundin society, had avowed the intention in the other Ilou * of withdrawing this clause of Divorce. If this, clause, then, were to be withdrawn, was it still meant to proceed to a degra dation of the Queen from het rank and privileges? By the Act of Edward 111. the Princess of Wales and the Queen stood in the saute situation with regard to adultery. But if the conduct of the Princess of Wales val.re taken out of that Act, she was placed in the condition of any ordinary woman, and could only be proceeded against according to the ordinary laws of the country. Was it, notwithstanding, intended by Ministers to make the Queen responsible for the alleged misconduct of the Princess of Wales? But with respect to the misconduct imputed to the Queen on this occasion, it was known that many Princ es in our own history, who had been betrayed into great irregulari ties in early life, while their paseions were too warm to be cuntrouled by their reason, had yet proved themselves good Kings ; and, in his judgment, it did not follow, that whatever irregularities the Princess of Wales might have committed, she would nut therefore prove a good Queen. On this ground he asked, whether, if her case were to he taken out of the statute of Edward, it was still meant to press that her Majesty should be deprived of her rank and privileges? To this question, as well as to the leant with respect to the clause of Divorce he wished the Noble Lord to make some answer, in ord e r tha t the House might be aware what sort of measure it should be pre pared to !relive wan :his subject. Lord CASTLEREAGH thou* that the last question put by the Noble Lord with respect to the statute of Edward would rather form a part of the argument upon the discussion a . . Mr. liiiiTßßizip accordingly withdrew his motion, and I the measure alluded to, than a question to which he could be the motion suggested by Lord Castl e rea g h w as p ut an d agree d to I called upon to make any Friend to state In the oth er lk use was any reply . At to the other q u est i on , w h at W Sir ROBERT ILSON moved for an account of the aggr e - ,be understood N his gate amount of the Fees received in th e S out h war k - C outt o f this—that he was autho rised to say his Majesty was not anxious Requests.—Ordered. • upon this subject for any personal relief, regarding the mea sure entirely of a public nature, and that therefore he was PETITION AGAINST THE PAINS AND PENA LTI ES BILL. I not desirous to press the clause of divorce. Oa I question, how- Mr. HUME presented a Petition front the l'rovost, Magis- I ever, of this description, he hoped the Hou se wou ld f eel the traces, Burghers, and others of the Burgh of Montr o s e , prayin g I, delicacy and di ffi culty in which he would be involved If ca ll e d that the house wduld rej ec t th e inll o f P a i ns an d Penalties ' upon to answer for the statements of his Noble Colleague in th e against the Queen, if it came down from the other house of other House—Wear, hear.)—But what h e un d erstoo d his Noble i Parliament. 11e begged leave to luake a few observatious, in Friend to have said on the occasion alluded to was this--that he consequence of what had fallen front the Hon. Member for 'teas not disposed to`preFs the clause of Di vorce . Dumfries (Mr. Douglas), who had urged the necessity not only Lord F. OSBOIL NE said that the Noble LO r d at t h e h ea d of of restraining the Liberty of the Press, but of checking the cur- i the Adniinistration was understood to h ave sa id , that he was rent of public opinion In regard to the Addresses to the Queen , willing to give up the clause of Divorce. which poured in from all quarters of the kingdom. The same I Lord CASTLEK EA Gil stated that he understood his Noble body, whose Petition he now presented, had drawn up an Ad- I Friend to have merely said, that he did not cons id er t hi s c l ause dress to the Queen, and he was able to boar testimony to their . as a matter of importance. high respectability. In the observations which the Ilonourablei Mr. P. MOORE asked whether it was.the intention of the Gentleman had thought /It to make., upon the Press in general, Noble Lord, its consequence of what took place upon the picies t sition of an Address for the liberation of Sir Manasseh Li p a, he appeared to hare forgotten that a part of that Press was who was now at liberty, to restore Mr. Swann to his liberty ? under the influence and coutroul of his Majesty's Ministers. He knew not whetlier there was any foundation for the asstr- , Lord CASTLEREAGH said that he had taken no pan in tion, but it bad been publicly stated that a part of the Plate the subject alluded to by the Honourable Gentleman, the matter which was formerly in the possession of her Majesty, stamped resting entirely with another department of the Administration. with the Royal arms, had been seen at the table of Mr. Street, I The House adjourned about half-past Eighr'o'clock, until the the Editor of The Courier. With respect to the manner in which 17th of October. 311 NO ILT Y Addresses had been conveyed to her Majesty, the observations or mit. ii.lationse's MOTION TO PROROGUE PARLIAMENT. of the I ionoorable Gentleman were wholly inapplicable to that Bennett, l'.U. Hughes, Colonel Noel, Sir G era ld carried up by the Corporation of Montrose, for that Body went Bernal. a . itLberiy, J. ben. Osborne, Lord F. to her Majesty in coaches and four. lie had himst If seen the Coke, Thomas W. Martin, John Palmer, C. F. Seamen's Address carried sup, and the whole proceeding was a P. ...etvey, Thomas Moore, P. Whitbread, Saimaa. conducted with the greatest propriety. I Ti." fiz,—.l. C. 11W/house and Sir Robert Wilson. •