Star. — London, England, 1808-05-24 00:00:00

I P..IRLIAMENT/IR r PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF LORDS, MAY 23. MERCANTILE LETTER-WRITING. day was pualished, L 1 12ran. price 4s. in boards, and is. 6d. bound, SERIES of MERCANTILE LETTERS, in:.endect to give a general Knowledge of Business to those. young Persons whose views are directed to COMMEP.CE, and to.- the Use of Scho As. By E. HODGKINS. Loudon Printed for T. 800...ey, No. S, Old Broad-street,Royal .1 . -than ge ; and C. Law, Ave-Maria-laic.—Where nay be had, AItITHME.TIC, or a New Method of l'eaning :hat Science with facility, and of enabling Learners to vr.struct themselves without a Master. By C.Dosos - r. Second price 3s. 6d.---.1150, by the sane Author, ELEMENTS cf CUNINIER CB, 2 Vols. Bvo. price 11. ss. KAU iFMAN'S DIC I'IONARY of AIERCHANDIZE and I'URE, in Ten Languages, two. los. lid. Their Lordships heard Counsel in the Roxburgh Appeal Cause. The proceedings on the Banbury Peerage case were adjourned ^.> Wednesday next. Mr. Wharton, Mr. Alderman Coombe, the Lord Advocate of Scotland, and other Members from the Commons, brought up :Le Cork Duty Bid, the Child Stealing Bill, the Court of Session _-cock Bill, and some private Bills, which were severally read a tlrst time. '1 lie Earl of SUFFOLK put a question concerning thr Druits Adin:i4l:;, which was nut anbwtred. IRISH GLEBE HOUSES. On the motion of the Archbishop of CASHEL, the House went int) a Committee on the Irish (Ache-House Bill. A cum- rsation took place between the Duke of NORFOLK, the Earl of FOLIC, the Archbishop of DUBLIN, Lord 11E0E5.. LIALIL, and the Loan CHANCELLOR, respecting the appropria tiun of the sum of £50,000, granted some years back for erect ing Glebe Houses, and repairing certain Parish Churches in Ire- After some verbal amendments by the LORD CHANCELLOR, which were agreed to, the House resumed, and the farther consi deration of the r, port postponed till Wednesday. Upon the motion of the LORD CHANCELLOR, the Corn mitten un tit: lrish Clergy Residence Bill was postponed until Wednesday. NIARRIAGE INDEMNITY BILL. The House went into a Committee upon the Bill for granting lndentaity to certain persons celebrating marriages in chapels, not I.;gally authorised for that purpose. The Archbishop of CANTERBURY wished that this mea sure could be extended to all Chapels of Ease, and Churches which have hitherto been restricted from the performance of the marriage ceremony. Many young Clergymen had innocently laid themsvives open to the penalties of the Marriage Act, without ever dreaming that they had offended against the existing laws. Lord REDESDALE said a few words on the Bill, which he approved of in its limited effect. - file LORD CHANCELLOR and the Bishop of BANGOR both spoke against the Luncritable and shameful evasions of the N:arn.tge Act. Atte, 7- some further conversation between the Bishop of Ex r.- TYR, the Duke of No RFOLK, the Earl of SUFFOLK, and some ver bal amendments moved by the LORD CHANCLLLOk ilLd agreed to, the House resumed, and the Report was ordered to be re ceived on Wednesday next. The Report on the Irish Promissory Note Bill was postponed until Wedmiday. After some turther routine business, the House adjourned until to-inaruw, when their Lordships stand summoned on the second ch.: Assessed 1 ax_s till. HOUSE OF COMMONS. The Bill for rebuilding the town of Chudleizli Was read the third time, passed, and urdtred to the Lords. A new Wilt was ordered for Ryegate, in the room of Lord Roysione, deceased. On the motion of Mr. IRJSKISSON, the House resolved itself into a Committee to consider the expediency of continuing the bouhties on the exportation of pilchards; and he moved that it is expedient to continue the said bounties; agreed to, and leave given to raring in a Bill for that purpose. etitmus were presented by Mr. S. THORNTON from certain landholders of Surrey ; by Mr. Co KX, from the county of Nor folk ; from those in the neighbourhood of Colchester; by Colonel Le LLOCK ; and from those in the vicinity of Rumford by Admi ral !Leaver, against the Sugar Distillery. Referred to the Com mittee ou the full. CATHOLIC PETITION. Mr. GR.I . ITAN presented a Petition from the Roman Ca tholics of ; which, being read, the same Right lion. Member moved that it do be on the table; and he gave notice, that he should on Wettnesd.ly next move to refer the same to Coninuttee.—Ordered accordingly. COWL 31 MAUI - UM also presented a petition to the same ef fect nom the Roman Catholics of the County of 'Tipperary. Or dered to lie ou the table. - . Mr. LETHBRIDGE presented Mr. Palmer's Post-office Per centage Annuity Bill.—Read the first time, ordered for the se cond leading on Thursday next, and to be printed. Mr. ROSE presented a Bill to Repeal and amend certain re strictive Acts relatirg to the Woollen Manufacture.—Read the trst tittle, and ordered for the 2d reading to-nun-now se'nnight. Mr. JALK.SO:4 presented a Petition from the Pilots of Dover, against Oa Litt now pending for the regulation of Pilots in Bri tish and praying that the appointment of Pilots for that port he e.:stad in the Warden of the Cinque Ports for the time b..ing.—Reietred to the Committee. .1 lie House then resolved itseit Into a Loinviittee on the 13ill. Air. RO3L said, the object of this Bill was to increase the num ber ut competent Pilots, and to pr.,vent unfit persons from being licensed to undertake so important a business. It was, he said, a century ago, since the number of Pilots appointed on the Dover coast, was i•-), and they had not been increased from that time to the present, although the number of British ships resorting to the port of London had since increased three-fold, and those of fureiza zuuntries ten-fold. The necessity of an increase must be obvi.,us. fie stated the calamities resulting from the want of proper. ptiots. He stated that he had caused printed copies of the ISI4 :A be sent to every seaport in the Kingdom, and to the mem bers ter every maritime county and town, and he thought it was ye: y exizaordinary that he ma the strongest opposition to the But tram the frwaus of the Lord .Virden of the Cinque Ports, Inhere it was must cecssary. It had been proposed to vest the power in the Members for Dover for the time being alternately, but ads would occasion partiality for election purposes. Lord li. PL 1 TY and Mr. TIERNEY thought that more do cuments shou.d be lail before the House, and some enquiry made into proofs before a Committee. Alderman CUiCHS and Mr. HUSKISSON defended the Bill, whic,h, after some further discussion, WAS ordered to he rt ported, and Laken into Lather consideration on this day sennight, and to be prritol. oar AP. IHUK WELLESLF.Y moved to rei•r to a Committee the Papers and Documents respecting Holyhead Harbour. Committed tat Duchess of Brunswick's Annuity Bill. Ordered to 'os report-d to-morrow. proper ptiot: 13 . t..1 4 ta_ue 6e Vl.ly 13111 seJai hire it WJ • • pow,r ill th but this wo Lord 11. eumeuts sho into proofs I whis.b, aftrl and Liken be u:r the rap;:rs• Columat to be rckuti NU'. HU gallant oai o4y, as Sir attehd to-u k05.... - .ce of . Mr. ito. sLipi captul kritish por: tiv Ittp /her consk..l 1 he atai ki to-siaarr 1 be 1-1.oi: The CH. lowi is sum for Amy . to ate lik Ditto for 11 Ditto for for repairir Agreed to, '1 he Lan: • , se'nnight. Sir JANI Penahits or ordered Los SLR !LOME POPHAM. 1-11P-.KISSON requested that the inot!on respecting the gallant Gaiter, appointed for to-morrow, might be postponed one nay, as sir 11. l'ophain had written to say he could not possibly attet.d to-morrow. To this Mr. PONSONBY consented, in the a.oa_.:cc of Mr. Lushington. Mr. ROSE moved for leave to bring in a Binh, prevent British sLipi captured by the enemy from being afterwards registered at kritish ports. Leave given. 1 arc kepert of the irish Militia Service Bill was taken into fur ther consi,:eraiion, and the Bill ordered to be engrossed. Ihe 4t.Lnip 12 my ill was read a second time, and committed kr to-morrow. be House went into a Committee of Supply. The CHANC.CLI.OR of the EXCIi Ete DER moved the fol, lowi is sums, viz. kor Amy Extrdordinaries, from the 25th Dee. 18C6, to die like date 1807, not tr.ade good Ditto for 1808, for England Ditto for fur Ireland £147,179 2,850,000 500,t 00 1,000 }or repairing Henry If H.'s Chapel Agreed to, and ordered to be reported to-rnorrnw. he Land ? Tat Commissioners Bill was deferred to this day sent:lett. Sir lANIES MONTGOMERY presented a Eill to repeal the penalties on shooting Bares in Scotland. Read a first time, and isrdertil Wr a squad reading to•.nurruw. Mr. ICHARTON brought up the Report on the Copper Im port Duty &IL o:de-rcd to be recommitted to-morrow. oisro,LE a tE.s. Lord BINNING mewed that the House Aould go into a Committee on the Report of the West India Committee. Mr. COKE could not let slip any opportunity of opposing a measure so mischievous as he considered the present to be. The object of the Committee had been to point out a mode of relief for the West India Planters, but now the ground was shifted, and the Sugar Distillation was recommended as necessary in the actual rtate of the country. He reflected with the highest pleasure upon the speech of the Irish Clrancellor of the Exchequer upon this subject—a more solid, a more constitutional speech could not have been delivered ; he thanked him for it, and was convinced he deserved the thanks of his country. — The ground on which the English Chancellor of the Exchequer argued the case for the substitution was, that the price of corn was high, and that there were apprehensions of a scarcity. Both these propositions he denied. The present price of cons was no more than a remuneration to the farmer considering the f‘ailure of the beans. There was no scarcity, nor any ground of apprehension of a scarcity, and why was such a proposition held out,. and a needless alarm created ? If the landed interest were. left to them selves, they would be able to supply the country, and save the money expended fur foreign corn. It had been well observed, that till the interference of Go vernment with the corn laws, we had always been an 'exporting country, but when that interference took place, we began to import. It was the duty of the Chancellor of the Exchequer therefore to give every encouragement to the landed interest, instead of sup porting a proposition injurious to them. The Hon. Member then referred to several parts of the evidence in the Report, to slew that, in the opinion of several of the most competent witnesses examined by the Corn rirttTe.., the measure was not expedient with a view to the relief of the West India planters, or on account of any real grounds for the apprehension of a scarcity. Mr. Chalmers, Chief Clerk to the Lords of the Com mittee of Privy Council for the consideration of trade and colonial matters, being asked, " whether exclu sive of any consideration of the situation of the West India planters, he saw any reason why Parliament should interfere to manage our resources for grain ?" replied, " that he did not see any reason why Parlia ment should interpose, as this might cause an alarm, and so produce the evil supposed." Mr. C. Scott said, that " if the distilleries were restrained from the use of barley, after the next crop, and that crop should prove abundant, there would be a very material fall in the price." The Honourable Member stated, that he had letters from Norfolk, represmting that there was every appearance of an abundant crop of barley. If this should be injured by the rain, thgre would be a great deal of black barley, which could be used in no way but in the distilleries. Mr. Kent, land-surveyor, being asked whether he thought barley necessary to the mode of cropping in Norfolk ? said, " that he con sidered the cultivation of barley as almost necessary to the existence of Norfolk." Norfolk, the Honour able Member remit ked, might be considered as the granary of England for barley, and could not be in jured without material injury to the whole kingdom. Mr. Kent being asked, whether any substitutes for barley could be found to answer the purpose equally well ? answered, Certainly not ; for oats would be the most obvious substitute—and them I consider to be one of the most exhausting of all crops, they rob the ass seed, and ultimately injure the wheat crops.— Thee Honourable Member observed, that a vast num ber of cattle were fed on the grains in the distilleries, and sent to the London market a source of supply which would be lost in the event of the substitution.— There was another most important point which was brought forward in the evidence of Mr. Overman, which was, that in the event of a considerable depres sion in the price of Barley, a great part of the land in Norfolk must be left uncultivated, and fall back to its pristine state. Mr Elwin's evidence also went to chew, that in the event of a fall in the price of barley, a smaller number of labourers would be employed by the farmer, and a portion of his lands before allotted to grain must be left in grass. The Hon. Member next adverted to the great quantities of wheat and barley brought from Norfolk to the London market, and the great injury that would arise not only to that county but to the whole kingdom, from any discour agement to the agriculture of Norfolk. He concluded by opposing the motion for the Speaker leaving the Chair. He thought it best to oppose the measure in this stage ; for if it went into a Committee, almost the whole Session might be occupied in discussion and hearing Counsel on the various petitions. Mr. ROSE expressed his conviction that no person who read the Report of the Committee could doubt of its propriety. In consequence of the stagnation in the sugar market, many estates in Jamaica were abandoned. A revenue from eight to nine millions was in danger of being lost to this country—and if soch should be the case, what must be the consequent effect on our navigation, amountingito about a fourth of the whole navigation of the kingdom, and on our manufactures, to the extent of one-third of the whole ? He had stated, when the Committee first met, that if Gentlemen of the landed intefest viewed the subject in a narrow point of view, it could hardly be carried. He hoped, however, that they would regard it in a different light, and that looking at the subject with a liberal principle, they would give way to a small extent. What he then proposed was, that the distillation from grain should stop when grain reached a certain price, and that it should be again renewed when sugar got above another stipulated price. If it was meant to give any relief on this sub ject, his opinion had always been that the present was better than any other time. We were an importing country. We were in the use of importing annually 700,000 quarters of grain. He did not talk of a scarcity, or of any danger on that score—( Hear ! hear !)—But he asked v:by, at a period when there were no means of importing this 700,000 quarters, the 400,000 quarters employed in the distillery should not go in diminution of this deficiency ? Sir W. W. WYNNE declared his readiness to af ford any relief to the West India interest that they could fairly claim, provided it was not at the expense of the landed interest. The measure now proposed , he did not think would affor4.l them that relief. The I season for distillation was at an end, and not a single quarter more of barley would be wetted ;mil Octo ber pest,- He would therefore oppose the measure, 'on account of the mischievous speculations which a of givingwasl relief ikaitntoprtohdeuce. West There india were many a ters, without trenching upon the landed interest. He ways pin thought a gr.eat part of their stock might be taken off, by lowering the duty upon coarse sugar and molasses, and employing it iu the fteding of cattle. Mr. BA RI - lAM began a very long and able speech, with observing, that the question before the House was to be cOnsitiered in three points of view. It was first to be considered as a question purely domestic, without any reference whatever to the West India Colonies. It was next to be viewed as a question purely colonial, which would lead to an enquiry, whe ther the Colonies were worthy of relief, and whether the mode proposed was sufficient ; and lastly, it was to be considered in a more general point of view, as affecting the interests of all parts of the empire. As to the first, he would admit that it was extremely dangerous to enter into discussions respecting the quantity of corn on hand ; but the evidence to that part of the report had not been brought by the advo cates for the West India interests. They did not en deavour to shew that the crop was deficient. False alarm might be dangerous, but false security might be fatal. If the question were argued without pas sion, the interests of both parties might be reconciled. It was admitted, that we imported to a great amount (about .800,000 quarters) from the Continent ; and that we now were cut off from that source. Would not that person who should find a substitute for these 800,000 quarters, and that without in the smallest degree affecting the landed, which he would call the permanent interest of the country, be entitled to the thanks of the public ? The crops of barley, in gene ral, were not more than equal to the usual con sumption. Now, all the pers6ns who had been exa mined before the Committee, some of them great theorists, and writers upon agriculture, agreed, that the crop of barley for the last year, was deficient one third,or,according to some, one-fourth. He would take it at one-fourth. Now, one of two things must follow from this, that, the consumption must either be re duced, or that the deficient) , must be supplied by im portation. If this were granted to him, from whence he would ask, could the importation be made with so little detriment to the landed interest, and so much advantage to a class of persons contributing so largely to the public income as from the West Indies? It was not adviseable that the prices of corn should be either too high or too low. The very low prices were invariably found to produce exorbitant prices at sub sequent periods. He would agree that the landed in terest should have a remunerating price ; but though he was an old and successful farmer, he could never ascertain in what this remunerating price was to be. It varied in different parts of the kingdom, but where barley farms were to be let, he invariably found that the landlord required double the rentwhich he last received. I'his,he supposed, was what was called a remunerating price; and to such remuneration, particularly as he was so little remunerated from the Vsrest Indies, he had no objection. This was the landlord's idea of reniuneration; he would next shew the House what was the farmer's. First, as it was just, he should be expected to be able to make enough to pay his rent. Next, he expected such prices as should secure him against short crops. In addition to this, he calculated upon gaining as much as should enable him to live comfortably and genteel, in a manner much superior to his ancestors or to the ancestors of his landlord ; and lastly, that he should be able to lay by a provision for his family. This was the farmer's idea of remuneration. 'Was it not evident from all this that the price of land was too high, and that the profits of farmers were too high ? While the landlords and farmers were rioting in wealth, the West-India Proprietors were in a state of the greatest distress. One third of the plantations were actually under foreclosure. The supplies of clothing, provisions, &c. for the negroes must be stopped, - and the existence of the colonies conse quently endangered. Was not this a crisis worthy the interference of Parliament ? But Gentlemen say, you may have any other remedy but this. Un fortunately there was no other at hand, or they might well believe the West-India interests would not press for this particular measure. He could suggest many, but there was not time for them. The distresses of the West-India interests would admit of no delay. —They must be instantly relieved, or some great con vulsion would ensue. They had the strongest claims upon the gratitude of the country: they contributed to its wealth—to its revenue ; they consumed its ma nufactures, they supported its navigation, and what did they ask in return ? Why, a market for their produce. This was the compact between the Colo nies andahe Mother Couatry, and that was denied to them. The annual importation of sugar was about 290,000 hogsheads, of which 200,000 might be con sumed in Great Britain and Ireland. There was therefore a surplus of 90,000 hogsheads, for which, , by the acts of the Government, there was no vent. Instead of facilitating its exportation, they forced the sugar of all the world into England. This, in the course of the last year, amounted to no less than 60,000 hogsheads. Was it to be expected that the West India proprietors could bear tip against these ac cumulated disadvantages ? He regretted that this should ever have been considered as a party question. I The Right Hon. Gentlemen on the opposite side di the question might be in a minority on this occasion ; but the friends with whom he in general acted, and from whom the principal opposition to the measure came, would be much mistaken if they thought they , would remove the Minister by carrying the que s tion I against him. The party who stepped over so nimbly on-a former night, would step back as briskly.. when' the question was decided. The party-queotion, there fore, would not turn the Chancellor of the Exchequer out, and would leave the opponents of the Bill ex actly where they were. It was clear, from the nature , of the division, on the last night the subject was un der consideration, that Government did not view it as a party matter. He was sorry to find, from a circumstance which took place last night, that it was so considered by his side of the House—by those with whom it had been his pride and boast to have acted. The House was aware that on public questions letters were sometimes written to Members of Parliament.— These were couched in various degrees of solicitation. Sometimes they astumA the shape of simple invita tions to Attend ; at others, they were expressed with all the vehemence of petitionary zeal. On these oc casions, they were written in the superlative. He would now state the 'fact. On his return home, he found a letter on his table, which, with permission, he would read to the Hott.:e. It was dated, Mouday m on ,. ing. " I received it," said the Hon. Member "at eleven on Sunday night"—(a bud laygA.)—He stated , that he was most earnestly and pressingly requested to attend in his place, as the measure fur ;;upping th e distillation from corn would be opposed, and an earls &vision was expected to take place. Such practice was mu t unwarrantable, and he could not have s u p. posed, if he had not been acquainted with the 1,1::„1 in which the letter was written, , that it would lA% been resorted to on a ques:ion of such great a:td g . neral interest. Mr. DUNDAS concurred in Ow general laid down by his Right lion. hticnd Cbancell(r of the Exchequer for Ireland,) as t o t h e propr i ety cf not interfering with the corn laws, an interference which could not be productive of any beneficial c on . sequence. But, at the same time, he mo,r. allow that there were extreme cases, in which it would be neces. sary to resort to such interference : The question there. foie was, whether the present circumstances of thi s ' country were such as to constitute a case of that ch.. scription ? The late crops of barley and oats had ham short, but nor the crop of wheat. Though there we;. no danger of scarcity at present, rt they ought to look to the future, and in the event of a short crop this season, they would not be justified in not leaving Ito the Executive Government the power of giving t o the public consumption that amount of corn which was consumed in the distilleries. He did nut agree either with those who supported this as a colonial measure, or with those who defended it on the score I of existing or apprehended scarcity, hat with a v i ew ! to the great national interests which it was calculated to promote. Mr. PONSONBY declared that lie never had taken up the present as a party question, end 11.4 no coin. munication upon the subject with those with whom he was accustomed to act out of the House of Com mons. He repeated what he had said on a former evening, that the Resolutions were a virtual and ef. fective violation of the articles of the Irish Union.— The Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Rose), indeed, seemed to hold this argument extremely cheap, %Alen he said that these articles ought not to be violated merely upon ground ;o1 convenience. But Mr.Pcnsoa by contended that a sacred and solemn compact cug!it not to be violated in any circumstances, nor iii.d:r any pretence whatever. He opposed the measure as , a direct interference with the agricultural sy s t em o f 1 the country, which never ought to be done but in cases of extreme urgency. This interference would ibe attended with much mischief. The farmer hal three markets for his commodities ; the first arising out of the demand of the people for food ; the :ecend was the brewery, and the third the distillery ; and if he was cut off from one of these markets, he would be induced in consequence to grow less corn. V+ ith i resp:ct to Ireland, the measure was peculiarly un- I just, because one of the principal advantages which accrued to Ireland from the Union was having the British markets open to her agricultural produce. It I was as unwise, too, as it was unjust, because with a view to a possible scarcity, it was extremely impor itant to avoid discouraging agricultural improvement in Ireland, from which we could derive supplies with much greater certainty than from any other country. Mr. HIBBERT said, that he had heard nothing against the substance of the measure, as all the objec- 1 tions pointed merely to some circumstances attending its introduction, or the manner in which it was sup ported. In 1807, an inquiry was instituted how far it might be expedient to introduce the use of sugar and molasses_ into the distilleries, expressly for the pur pose of relieving the planters. The Committee to which that inquiry was entrusted, immediately came to a resolution that there was no ground for the mea sure upon the apprehension of a scarcity of corn ; and that it was not one which they could recommend. This resolution was adopted by a Committee,in witch there was a greater proportion of West India planters than there was in the Committee which had been ap pointed in the present Sessions. The object for which the last Committee was appointed was a very different one ; their commission was to inquire how far it might be proper to confine the distilleries to the use of sugar and molasses. In conducting such an inquiry, which required great knowledge of calculation, and consi derable information respecting the present state of the Colonies, he put it to the House whether it would have been proper to leave it to any twenty-cne Gen-. tlemen of landed property, wbo could have been named. He did not assert that there was an actual scarcity existing, but he affirmed, that some symp toms of a deficiency of corn were already apparent, and if there was a deficiency, there was no way in which it could be better supplied than by the intro duction of a substitute for the corn at present under the distilleries. The Honourable Gentleman next sheaved the tendency which the measure would have to relieve the planters, while it was liable to fewer ob jections than any other mode of relief which could be suggested. He should therefore vote fOr the Speaker's leaving the Chair. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL of SCOTLAND admitted that it would he a most foolish policy to relieve one set of men at the expence of another class of the community. When he considered, however, the facts stated in the Report upon the table, and what he knew of the state of the crop, particularly in Scotland, he thought it would be a measure of pru dence to stop the distillation from grain, not merely from the beginning of July, as had been proposed by the Noble Lord, but if possible from the beginning of June. This opinion he had formed some months ago, altogether independent of the present situation of the West-India' Planters.: He should therefore betray the duty he owed to tie country, if he did not vote for the present measure. Sir H. MILDhIrAY professed to feel as deeply as any man for the present distress of the West India Planters, and to be most anxious that some relief should be accorded to them. But this relief might be much better given by a deduction of the present duties on sugar, by a relaxation of the Navigation Act, or by advancing them a sum of money, as bad been done in one instance before. He hoped, how ever, that in order to relieve the West India Planters, the House would not consent to derange the whole of the existing agricultural system of the country. The landed interest, he said, already bore their full pro- portion of the public burthens. The poors races, the militia, &c. rested exclusively upon the land. The price of barley, he contended, had risen in conse quence of the discussion of the measure, because ever since it was projected, the Distillers hail been buying 111 t w post tore hof Mr. t t hat cc feel in g' tame s ubject stop Pin I n 179 , at 9 1 s. wards w h c n t sa d b: *IT "sv I ke sus tbs es' do bet Fri But if ou ght in ord4 rohib Neithe f oray re am they a had bi of fort Pitt, 1 agreei ferenc He di that grout pate, whicl thls ihut pes lute atl4 Ala COU nat