Star. — London, England, 1820-06-02 00:00:00

Ili. It was not his intention to trouble the lime at ary length, but he begged it to bear in recollection ti.at many Acts had been passed for this object, mhich being thus recognised AS a legisrative principle, had the less difficulty in asking Parliament to en force by the new Bill the preceding laws against paying in truck, and of rendering effectual what had been devised for the protection of labourers, artisani. and mechanics. It was the purpose of the Bill, that these classes should not be under any controul in the expenditure of their money; but that that which they received in wages, they might be free to lay out as they would. The Bill also proposed to take away the right of appeal to the Quarter Sessions; because pool n.en were unable to meet the expense of such proceedings, and this gave the rich an advantage over them, which ought not to be possessed. He was persuaded that these alterations would be productive of much good, and would assure the House, from a vast quantity of information which had poured in upon him since he gave his notice on the subject, that the pressure occasioned by the evasions of the existing laws was very severely feit. He acknow-' ledged that the Bill might cause some bad conse quences, by preventing masters in a I.irge way from buying provisions wholesale at two or tilre, months, and retailing the same at a reasonable retail rate to their workmen, end also by interfering v. ith those persons who, from humanity, furnished those they employed at a cheaper rate than they could purci:a.e elsewhere; but still the advantages would, iii his opinion, far outweigh these inconveniences, and place every one in the same situation, and not AS now, some used according to the law, and others oppressed by its evasion. Sir J. MACKINTOSH world not opprise tl!e Bill in this stage, but he entered his protest against ti,e principle. The true rep edy of the grievance, he thought, would be to repeal the Acts already in force, riot to extend them. If all restrictions were taken away, it would be infinitely better for all parties, to Thom such transactions as those prohibited were often expedient and convenient. Mr. F. ROBINSON also entertained great doubts as to the policy of this measure. He was not satisfied that if they had to begin to legislate on this subject, they would think it one to enact any of the old laws. Mr. WRATTULEIG Colonel WOODi and Mr. HUM; expressed similar opinions. Mr. BARING followed on the same side. Restric tions had better be removed than added. He sug gested a Committee to inquire and see what remedy could be applied, as a preferable course to bnnging in a Bill upon a matter so important. Mr. LITTLETON replied, that so long as such laws remained on the Statute Books, care should be taken to render them effectual, as A protection to the pot r, and also to the honest trader, whose conscience did not allow him to violate them. He instanced the iron trade in Staffordshire as subject to consider able abuses in this respect, in consequence of which the Poors'-rates were greatly burdened. Seeing, hon. ever, such an array of opinion against the nieasuie, he should only express his desire to be allo‘ , e,i bring forward the Bill, and, if he found the H. , the against it, he would adopt the advice of the Honoui - able Member, and move for the appointment ut a Committee to inquire into the laws, and suggest a remedy for the evils complained ot. Mr. W. SMITH confirmed the Sl.t.ement respect ing the great inconveniencies of the present practice, but thought a Committee would lead to the most effectual redress.—Leave gi, en to Wing in the Bill. IRIbH COMMIsSIoN. Sir J. NEWPORT, adverting to what was said last night respecting the functions of Commissioners ceasing on the demise of the Crown, inquired of Lord Ci,s,lereagh if the acts of cer tain Commissioners in IreLi..cl, since the accesion ut his present Majesty, were really illegal? Lord CASTLEILEAGII replied, that front looking at the Act try which they were constituted, he was in hopes their pro. credings were valid. BANK BALANCES. Mr. GRENFELL should deter his observations on this sub lect to a future opportunity, on account of the 'business about to me before the House. lie then moved tor a variety of Ac counts betwixt the Bank and the Government, sinnier to those uoved for on a former occasion; which were ordered. LINEN TRADE. Mr. MABERLEY rose, pursuant to notice, to move the ap 4)intmef.t of a Committee fur to-morrow, to take into consider -4 ion the Acts of the 29th George 11. and 54th George 111. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved " the pt•evious question," as the whole subject of Trade would soon Le brought before the House. Alr. MA BERI,EY thought the course adopted most extra (.4.dinary, as, by an arrangement with the President of the Board of Trade, he had understood no opposiriim would be made to tk c Motion. He should state, that his object was to give em pl oyment to the people of Scotland, and should desire that the t 9411 Article et the Union be real Ir. ROBINSON stated, that he bad promised not to oppose the Motion, and could not object to place the exportation of !British and Irish Limns en the same tooting. But it did not folow that the Chancellor of the Exchequer might not hesitate as to the propriety of assenting to it. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had not been aware cf the understanding alluded to; and, with the leave of the House, would withdraw the previous question. Mr. M.l BE It LEY was about to eater up,,n the subject, when The SPEAKER interposed, and observed, that any discus sion would then be premature, as the Committee was bated for to-morruw (this Clay). Mr. 3IABER LEY then said, he chi,tild move that it be an in struction to the Committee, " To take Imo consideration the' charging a duty on the importation of foreign linen yarn." This gave rise to a conversation of souk.• knio it, relative to the point of order. But the Srtaxao having expressed hi= opinion that the motion would he against the forme of t!:e e, as the Committee, which was. to be so lust ueted, had not yet been ap pointed, the nu:4km was withdrawi,. ALIEN BILL. Lord CASTLEREAGH, in pursuance of notice, rose to move for leave to bring in a Bill to continue the Act for the regulation of Aliens, and to abolish naturali-snio n arising from purchase of stock in the sank of Scotland. He voorikl pot have Aligught it neces4a, y to explain the grounds and objects of the Abell Bill, if he had not heard that it Wit the inten ton of an Honourable and gallant General to op pose it. It wa:; a treasure 1940 at by the other side of the Howe with great constitutional jealousy, but wss persuaded that whatever were the gro unds of ohjevion which mi g h t b e urge d , none of could be rested on any extent of abuse supposed to have' taken plant. ludeed th.: return of -the number of .A leas sent out of the country within the last two years, instead of raising the argument of abuse, u0u14.1 rather go to chew, from' the small uulPbCr upon whom it actually operated, that the Alien Law] was unnecessary. But that paucity should not be : taken a, the measure of the utility of die dill ; for it' slid not follow, because only a small number of Aliens were sent forth from the country, that there-I fore great clanger irOnici not haste existed if the tze- of the iicsiers given thetreentive under the Alien cutive Government had not the power of sending %Act. lie had only to mention the-case of General foreigners out a the kingdom.'Many foreigners whose Gourgaud, as a refutation of that assertion:. He had presence here might have been very mischievous, were, only to state the violence with winch that General's perhaps, deterred fron, coming by the knowledge that 'person and papers had been seized, and the answer such a power was in the hands of the Government. given to his remoestrance, when it was urged that he From the number of foreigners at present in this had desired to be brought before a Magistrate, and country (about 25,000), the House would see the , not before the l'riv.y ,Council; such an answer he necessity of arming the Government with such a considered a weak excuse, and a perversion of every power as would enable it to prevent that number, or principle of law—(Hear, hear). There was also a any part of it, from interfering with the public case of still greater hardship within his own know safety. It was clear, that since the Bill of 1818, the ledge, which he would mention to the House. A number of Aliens had increased in this country, and Lady of high rank, who had resided in St. but a small proportion of them were here for corn- had been recommended by her physicians to try the mercial purposes. No man respected more than effects of the Cheltenham waters in repairing her himself the old constitutional doctrine, that this health, which was much impaired by the climate.— country should be open to all nations. But the ques- She accordingly sailed from St. Helena, and arrived tion now was, whether, uirder the present circurn- off Margate on the sth of September. No sooner „stances of this country, and of Europe, such a Bill was she come there than Captain Walsh, the Captain was necessary ? Was it improbable, in these times, of the ship, informed her, that by an order from that many foreigners might be disposed to come to , the Alien Office, she was prohibited from landing this country, for the sole purpose of disturbing our there, hot must go to Gravesend. The Lady was internal peace?—(" Yes, Yes,"front the Oppsiiion).— the Countess Montholon. Through the humanity of He contended, it was not improbable ; and that many, Captain Walsh, 'she was suffered to remain on board who had no view of that kind with respect to Eng- his ship until they reached Gravesend, but there she land, might be eager to take up their residence here, was put on board an old gun-brig laying off ; and, .for the purpose of carrying on transactions whose ob- after remaining two days in this situation, Mr. Cap ject would be to disturb the States of the Continent. per, so well known in the Police Report (and whom, In the appeaiancts of the world, there was quite after his treatment of General Gourgaud, it was esiorigh to justify him in taking measures for the pro- shameful to employ on this occasion), came on board, tection of the country both from external as well as and informed her that she must not land, but pro internal danger. Such a law should, in truth, be teed to Ostend. Being thus ordered off to sea again, looked upon as a measure of prevention. hpre.. in the infirm state in which this Lady's health was, vented foreigners from coming here to commit acts I and deprived of any assistance from shore, she ne which might compromise the public peace. Iu time cessarily suffered extremely; hut this was not all, of war, w hen a toreOter might come here with hos- for her child died in consequence. Her reception at tile views, it was necessary that every alien wlm , Ostend was all that she could wish, as she herself landed on our shores should be placed immediately I wrote from thence, and he blushed for his countrymen under the inspection of the Police. He was obliged lat the contrast which their coisduct afforded to it to reside in a certain district, from which he could There was still another case of an Officer of high not .move without the permission of Government, rank under the Old Government of France (the Duke and, in sb , rt, he was every way treated as a sus- of Rovigo), who was obliged to quit this country petted person; but When i race returned, the nature with the greatest precipitation. The aforesaid Mr. of the Alien Law was changed. Foreigners were Capper was also after him, and even went so far as then allowed to come here, and to reside wherever to use great liberties in Mr. Vs ilkins' (a most respect- Amy plea:e.i. the only condition required of them able merchant) house, where he lodged. Ile asked, being, he believed, to deliver in their names and de- was it decent to be again employing this Mr. Capper, scriptions, and to subscribe their names in the pre- or was there nothing like an abuse of the law in the sence of the Officer. All the hospitalities of the cases which he had mentioned? Indeed, there was country were siren to them, hut power should be left a case within his knowledge, of a foreigner having fo the Goternment to remove foreigners, if they been removed, without being guilty of anv offence should find it necessary. The Noble Lord pro- but writing a libel upon a foreign Prince! Did such ceeded to state, that there was a species of internal' conduct look well in the Government of England, war, which it was more difficult for a Govern- which piqued itself on its hospitality? Ha stranger meet to dests with, than a proclaimed, open warfare. was so treated in Prussia, mayhap he would set . it The reason for the Bill, derived from our internal down to the account of the Military Government; if circumstances, was rather stronger than it was two' in Austria, because that Government was 150 years years ago. Treason was proved to have existed in behind all others; and in Russia there would be still flee country, and was it not possible that efforts might less excuse; but would not England be the last place be combined here with similar efforts on the Conti- in the world where he would expect it ? —(Hear)._ nent. if a facility were given ? Though n e had re- The gallant General then read the instructions put ceded from the period of the French Revolution, yet into the hands of all foreigners (even women and men were to be found now., who by no means dege- children) coming into this country, to shew still far aerated from the charactms which were conspicu- ther its hardship and incivility. The stranger was tors in that season of disorder. There was a fanatic obliged to apply at the Alien Office in Westminster, spirit abroad in the world which taught some men and enter his name within a week, or he was told in to believe that morder itself was justifiable—(Hear, case of non-compliance he was to be imprisoned for hear).—He admitted that the nature of the measure a usonth—(Hear, hear). The Government of the was modern, but he thought without such a law no Netherlands did not now permit any one to land State could non exist. It was true that, in the opi- there who had not a passport from the Secretary of nion of Blackstone, a power of sending forth aliens State's Office, for which he was obliged to pay £2. 65. was inherent in the Crown, and that opinion was He knew a Gentleman, who having got a passport confirmed by the - authorities of Land Ellenborough of this nature, was complaining to the Dutch Consul and the ereseht Lord Chnticellor. But that power that he thought it a great hardship, but he was itn requile.l the aid of the law, arid was found to be in- mediately answered by the Dutchman, who said, effectual for the accemplishirent of its own purposes. " We look upon your Alien Laws 'as vexatious to He repeated, that the public safety was the only thing foreigners, and we must meet them by other laws in Goverinient had - in view in proposing the renewal of our own defence."—(llear, hear). Now, if all the the Alien Act. It was not done from any disposition Governments of Europe acted upon the lei talionis to lessen the hospitality which this cousary used , to which the Dutchman argued upon, there must be an aff rd to strangers: The general principle, that every end to intercourse altogether. This bonus to the Se- Gcaernment had aright to send out of the country cretary of State acted as a bar to egress from the coun those who would in ike k a theatre of faction, was in try, contrary to the regulations of the great Charter. his favour ; but he rather chose to make use of the The presence of 25,000 foreigners in the kingdom peculiar situation of this country as an exception, was used as an argument for the measure. Was this even if the general principle was contested. The a way to induce the House to put this number of Noble Lord concluded by moving—" That leave be persons under the most arbitrary Government? He given to bring in a Bill, to continue certain Acts of should deeply regret if any indifference was shewn to the .6th of the late King, for the regulation of Aliens the liberties of foreigners, for that would be the first coming into, or resident in this kingdom, in cer- step to neglect our own—( //ear ! ).—But it was taro cases." said, the presence of such a number, if not under, Sir ROBERT WILSON, in rising to oppose the a tight rein, was dangerous. Where were the Alien motion of the Noble Lord, said, he felt it was a little Laws, when, by the revocation of the Edict of unti-ual to do so at this stage. The proposition, how- Nantes, this country was filled with foreigners? Up ever, at this time was in itself so extraordinary, and to the time of the last war, 'and the operation of so far from what lie expected, that he did not scruple what was now called the Peace Alien Act, there was to dispute its adoption by the House, even in its in- no law of this nature, and no danger was therefore fancy. When in the course of last Session an Ho- apprehended. All the other nations of Europe looked nourable Friend of his expressed his intention of upon it as in direct hostility to them, and he would moving for the abolition of the Alien Bill, he (Sir put it to the House to say, whether or not they Robert) dissuaded him from it, under a conviction were in a condition to bear counter-arrangements that its renewal now, the fourth time, in profound which might be made by these other nations?— peace, was not contemplated by his Majesty's Go- The Continent had been taught to look upon .this vernment—(Hear, hear). The Noble Lord might country as a place where there was no longer a re argue that it was meant only as a measure of security, fuge for them. But a place still-remained. Spain but he was persuaded, out of every hundred persons, had taken the place which England once held ! It not only iu England but in Europe, ninety believed was become the asylum and the citadel of the perse it was a consequence of some pledge given by him cuted of the Continent !—(Hear, hear). Although he at the Congress of Vienna, or some other Congress, had no hopes of being *le to prevent the motion from which the Noble Lord could not recede— being carried, yet he would take the sense of the (Hear, hear). All foreigners looked upon the Aliesi House, with however small numbers, and leave no Bill as a part of that general system of Police in all stone unturned to put an extinguisher on this anti-so the Governments of Europe, by means of which per- cial and anti-European law!—(Hear, hear). sons who became obnoxious to any one of what was Mr. C. BARING WALL said, that it had been called the Holy Alliance, but what he would call the stated that there had been no abuse of the powers Unholy Alliance, could never escape its vengeance! conferred by this measure, and it had been replied The Noble Lord had talked of it as a preventive mea- from. the other side, that there had been abuses corn sure. He had no objection to laws which were merely mitted. But, conscientiously acting, he must vote preventive, if they were not unconstitutional. What on the merits of any question, not upon the charac a miserable contrast the Alien Bill would make to ter and conduct of an Administration—(Hear, hear, the character of-this country, which had been always from the Opposition side).—He would not 'enter into *so remarkable for its hospitality to strangers, and for any argument on the law of the question, nor would its being the asylum for the unfortunate, and the he discuss at length the general policy of it; but be , refuge of the distressed. The authorities of Lord would ask. the House to consider what was the ge.l Elleabocough and Blackstone, had been cited in neral opinion of foreigners respecting the Alien Act, h=of the principle of the Bill. These were — He did not allude to opinions r eceive d fr o m the thol 'ties, but he had higher the other way, diplomatic corps, or from attendants on foreign He bad the authority of Magna .Charta, which de-, dourta, but he'appealed to all Gentlemen travelling dared that foreigners should have free ingress and through foreign countries, whether foreigners ever egress, nisi corenantiaprohibiti firerint / Sir Edward mentioned the British Government, and the British Coke, in his Comments on tire Great Charter, de- Constitution, without expressing their astonishment Glared that the power of sendingfweigners out of the that such a measure as this could be proposed by. a nation was not in the King, but the cheat Council.— British Ministry, and sanctioned by a British Par- The .I:Ziug of France pever adopted 41 4 4 s power with liament--(1414 cheers a frosa the qpposition tegurd to strangers. The Noble Lord undertook to The Noble Lord had stated that there were 25,000 say, that no abuses were committed in the execution foreigners in this country. He begged the House to .. • recolleCt the situation in which all those pelions were Placed by this Bill; he heed them to recollect with what feelings they must look around them upon a nation, free, and jealous of freedom, yet 'subjecting them to such a law. In the land of liberty and law, they found that the people with whom they lived could not impart to them what they themselves en joyed—( Hear, hear).—Minister, in proposing this Bill, iiitroducz.i a principle unknown to the British Consifintian. It was absurd to establish such a powr in a fres?. country : hi a despotic Government it -might be intelligible and useful: , but in a free c °entry. no sooner w: , .s any project started than it was discussed, and therefore such secret and sum mary steps were never necessary—( dear, Fear). The SuLICITOR-GENEIf AL said he rose chiefly in consequence of the statements made by the gallant General, as he was willing to allow, that if true, they were cases of abuse which must furnish strong tea sons against the renewal of the Bill. The first case, which was that of General Gourgaud, had been al ready brought before the House by a PetitiOn from that Gentleman, the allegations of which were theta answered and distinctly contradicted (Cries of No)! —lf the charge was made out, why was it not pur sued? why was not a future day appointed for en tering into the allegations? The gallant General, he was aware, bad taken pains to acqo.:int himself with the whole of the facts—he had wl hum a list of questions to a person at -I'larwich, to each of which he had got distinct and tatisftctory answers. lie was informed that the General was allowed an in terview with the Magistrates, that many pers .ns were admitted to him, that he bad only ihtid his own expenses, and that he had never complained of the conduct of the officers while at /larwich. Bit though the gallant Gen . ..tat on the other side of . the House had gained thi; intormation, he had not the candour to state to the House the proceeding he Lad achnted. Ile would take urn himself to say, having investi gated the case, that all the allegations v. -hie false. He (the Solicitor General) would un wake to shew, that Mr. Capper, of the Alien Office, had been grossly li belled. When that person was in the room, the General had, made an attempt to get, at the chimney. piece, where there were two pistols, so that some force was necessary to prevent him. Ile was per ' 'bitted to collect his writings, but had refused to go until force was employed. With regard to the case cf Countess Montholon, the Government had exer cised the greatest forbearance ; but, if the gallant General thought proper, he might make it the subject of a distinct charge. As to the general question, he would maintain that the power of sending strangers out of the country vas the undoubted pi erogative of the Crown. The Bill, therefore, was not a new law, but a regulation. It was acted on in the reigns of Elizabeth and William, and maintained by the au. thority of Blackstone. The gailaht General had stated that he had Magna Charta On his side, but the clause to which he alluded, referred to the restrictions which had previously existed against foreign merchants; and Blackstone, in the very page in which he quoted Magna elm) la, asserted the existence of the prero gative. All writers on the laws of n at i o n s sa id t h e same. Puffendorff and Vattel laid it down, that the right of removing foreigners existed in the Sovereign power, which was here vested in the Executive for con venience. .It was the Executive that granted letters of licence and safe conduct ; the Executive therefore could best exercise the right now under their consider ation. When it was said that the Alien Law was a t.rror to foreigners—that it wo,lid scare them from our shores, was it recollected that two-thirds of the foreigners now in England had come in under t i; law?-- (Hoar, hear) —How many Aliens, too, had been sent out of the country under this law during the last two year ? Why, nine ! (Hear, hear).—But then it might be said that it was unnechhsaiy, because it was so seldom exercised. On the contrary, it was highly necessary that these nine persons should be sent out of the country. He was not then able to state, nor was it his duty to state. the cases of these nine individuals; but he had no doubt that if the particulars were stated, the Ministers would be found fully justified—( Hear, hear, am; laug,hterfroin the Op position side).-1C theme was a period in the history of the country in which it had shewn the highest libera lity and the most et,:a..-bed benevolence to foreigners, it was since this Act was passed —(Hear, hear).—He should not now trespass further on the House, but he had no doubt that he should, on 2 future day, be able to bring precedents to justify the opinions he had stated—(Heer, hear). ' • Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH said, that at so late an hour of the night he should have been unwilling to say anything on a subject on which, at former times, and at great length, he had felt it necessary to trespass on their indulgence, had not his opinion been specially called for; but as that had been done, he should,now, on the first stage, say a few words, on a measure, to every stage of which he should offer his most decided opposition, reserving for a future occasion a more detailed statement of his reasons. In making these observations, it was not his intention to enter into a controversy as to particular facts. In the first place, because he was not acquainted with the circumstances, and therefore could better leave it to those who were; and in the next place, because the discussion of particular instances of abuse might tend in some manner to weaken the argument against the measure. In his opinion, the mischief and ma lignity of this measure was, that it necessarily was the instrument of injustice, in the hands even of those who least intenc!ed to abuse it—(Hear, Hear).— The most conscientious ministers of such a power must necessarily, at times, be made the tools of .pri vate malice. He had not, as was stated by the Noble Lord, viewed the measure, since the peace, with jea lousy—he had viewed it with abhorrence—(Hear). —He had viewed it as one of the most untie tunate deviations from the ancient system of our laws that formed n' part of our modern legislation. It was (as it was well expressed by a Gentleman who had voices that night for the first time with such credit to a . self—who had shewn the force of principle,Aettigt the better of political partiality, while:lien:tamed:hi general attachment to the persons with - whom he had been accustomed to act) a measure for reducing to slavery 4'..5 f 000 of the inhabitants of this island--a Wleasure for de riving -25,000 persons of all th e bene pr fits of our free.Constitatior.—(Hear, hear).—Thi s , with the Noble Lord, was an argument 'Wits favour. Hesitated the minsber of the persons to be outlawed as an argument in favour of the outlawry—he stated the number of the victims as an argument for the x• ~~