Star. — London, England, 1830-02-13 00:00:00

said by some that the conduct of this country, and theproceedings in parliament, did not excite any lively feelings of interest in Turkey: He recollected, however, the statement made by a nobib lord who was conversant with the habits and feelings of the Ottonidn Porte—he recollected his stating that the Porte took the most :aria :oils interest in the affairs of this country, that she looked up to .land for support, and that we were not at all aware of what itt., :ercst sbe took in the debates in parliament, in the language of the' z4overetgn, in his speech to the two houses, and in the measures adopted by ministers ; or with what anxious solicitude that power canvassed every proceeding adopted by the government of this coun try. i% Well," said the Turk, " I have engaged in war, the Eng lish have whispered that they will not stand by passive spectators in consest which, I believe, interests them as much as myself, and I , am convinced they will not allow Russia to overrun the country." The Turks were buoyed up with such hopes by persons sent out by his Majesty's government. I do, therefore, think that the lan guage used, and the vacillating co nduct afterwards, are totally in consistent, and have produced effects most injurious to this country. I hail almost, however, forgotten to mention one re.. markable instance of active interference in favour of Turkey —I mean our interference with respect to the blockade of Prevesa, which had been resolved on by the Greeks. Now, what did the English do—the English who have such a love for blockade•—who, with such breathless haste recognised the blockade of Oporto by Don Miguel, and risked the shedding of blood, and the violation of the law of nations by their conduct at Terceira ? The English Government said—" No, you must do nothing to assist the Greeks ; what the Greeks do they must do single-handed, and for that reason, we cannot recognise the blockade of Prevesa." I know that statements of this kind may not be looked upon by some as perfectly authentic, but nevertheless they were borne out by facts. For instance, I cannot see the common sense of sending out an am bassador to Constantinople when the Ottoman Porte would not consent to concession on any one point ; and in that very act the English Government introduced a claim to which the Turks could not agree so long as they objected to concede to the vast conces sions demanded by Russia. The very manner and conduct of the Turks at that time proved that hopes of assistance from England were entertained by the Turks; and I believe that, even. before the Russians passed the Balkan, the Emperor of Russia, with a magnanimity which did him great eredit,'offered them a treaty on the same basis and the same principles which he at last obtained. To this, as lam informed, the Turks sent no an swer at all, but probably did as some great sovereigns do—as Louis XVIII. for instance, on the landing of Napoleon from Elba —who declared that he would never desert his capital ; and that rather than do so he would lay down his life at the gate of St. Denis; with a great deal more balderdash of a similar kind. I forget the barbarous name of the place at which the Russians first arrived on their passage to the Balkan ; but after that on their ar rival at Adrianople, what said the Tutk I—l am in a perilous situation ; but I have an old friend and an ancient ally in the Sovereign of England, who stated that I was ne cessary to the safety and balance of Europe—that balance of power so dear to the people of England, and on account of which they kept up a standing army, because such is the cus tom of the other States of Europe. They have not a large army, of course, to send to my aid, but they have a fleet ; and they have sent a brother Reis Effendi to act in consort with my Reis Effendi, and, therefore, I may trust to their assistance— not, perhaps, by arms, but active and earnest Interference with the enemy. Some such hopes were entertained by the Tusks, but what was the result ? What did our government ad. vise ?—Unconditional submission ; and this, too, from an ancient friend : who could give him no better advice than to accept terms, even the most unreasonable. This reminds me of a story given by Dean Swift, in his "Tale of a Tub," or some other of his works. A friend of Don Diego, or some such name, applied to him, in his utmost distress, and asked what he could do to get out of his din: culties. "Do I" said he " the best thing you can do is to hang yourself ; and, when you have hanged yourself, that no sacrilegious hand may touch you, I will come and cut you down."—(A laugh.) Such was the advice given by our government to Turkey ; and they had improved in following up the advice—they not only had ad vised her to hang herself, but afterwards had pulled her by the heels to tighten the noose.—(Laughter.) And, not satisfied with this, they deprive her of her sovereignty over Greece, and strike out that clause which might be of some advantage to an ancient friend. Now mind in what language that is expressed in the King's speech, which says that his majesty had great satisfaction in informing them that hostilities had ceased, Now here is a friend, who enters into a quarrel, and who trusts tohis friend for support—who, by the bye, is a fine sturdy fellow too; the friend is kicked into the kennel, and receives a sound drubbing, which affords the highest delight. What does the pretended friend do after all this ? He tells every one he meets, "All is over, we have got rid of him, and I congratulate myself that the affair Is now set at rest.— (Laughtet.) Is not this exactly the case with this country ? And does not such a course of condutt, and such a want of energy, and want of principle, call on Parliament to inter fere ? I have, however, so long detained your lordships on this sub ject that I have left myself little time to speak of Russia and France; and here I must say that the conduct of the government has gone far to irritate the former power, and, consequently, to injure our commerce in the Black Sea. ven as the case is, however, this country will still be a gainer in that point by the victory of the Russians. To this point I should not have alluded, but that per sons - and those, too, well informed—had stated that, owing to the success of the Russians, our trade with the Black Sea would be much diminished. Why, they would lead the public to believe that we had a great trade in that quarter while every port, with the exception of that of Asoph, was in the hands of Turkey. While the Black Sea was completely under the control of Turkey the English flag was hardly ever seen in that sea ; and now that it had been opened to all nations one-third more English vessels had passed the Dardanelles than at any former period and, with the exception, perhaps, of Greek vessels, they were more numerous than those of any other nation. The idea of the state of trade which prevails there, indeed is so incredible, that it passes current only because no one has thought proper to contra dict it. The conduct of the Government in this affair altogether, has been most inconsistent; and conduct of a similar description had been so well described by a poet, though not in the moat poetical language, that he could not help quoting it—Ansonius had de scribed a wise statesman and a foolish statesman in the following words Quid prudentis opus ? Cui possis nolle nocere. Quid stulti propnum est ? non posse et wells nocere. I believe we might be able to prevent Russia from taking any ma. I sure to injure England ; and it would, of course, be the duty of this country to pursue such a course; but I think it would be the I height of folly to endeavour to prevent Russia from asserting her •just rights. From the course we had pursued, we might be said to resemble the dog which shows his teeth, but is afraid to bite ; or, , rather the dog which, to impress an idea of his power, opens his mouth,but shows only toothless gums. With regard to France, I must I, say that she has, throughout the whole of this affair, acted a most generous and friendly part. Ido not grudge her the praise which she has so well merited, and for which the public and posterity will do her justice, and o nly lament that England has not, by her conduct, acquired . the same title. If, in future times, hostilities:should break out between this country and France we shall deeply lament the part which our government has taken on his occasion, finding that the French, by their generous conduct towards the Greeks, have forestalled us in their good opinions. On these grounds I think that enough has been said to call upon the government to inform the parliament and the country on what principles they intend to act for the future. I must, at the same time in justice to the noble Lord, admit that' on several points on which I have touched, I have only spoken from conjecture, fort' believe co member of the house has lees access to public documents, or knows less what is going on, than 1 do, baying obtained my Principal fact chiefly from common conversation. I trust, homier, that the time will soon come when the noble lord willtive the house the fullest information on the subject. With regard to'the limits, I should wish particularly to have satis factory infmmafion front the noble lord, as any thing that could be learned from the' treaty is not only vague and imperfect as regards the continent but also the Greek islands, and particularly the, great and important island of Candice. There seems, indeed, a sort of in. tention, or wish, at least, to get out of the affair; and, if report is to be believed, government begin to say that is a bad business,and that the noble lord thinks he has done enough by fulfilling the treaty of the 6th of July, and that it is the duty of this government to take away as little as possible frinn the Turkish territory. But I must say that it is the duty of this country to see that the boundaries of Greece are . sulliciendy extended, and that she should have suffi cient power of herself to 'resist foreign force, and not fall a prey to the first invader If such should be the case, only see in what a condition the Prince would be who should be sent to pre side ever the Greeks. If report were to be believed—and as the re port was so current and universal he hkd no reason to doubt its truth , --an illustrious individual, well known for his great qualities, and who had, by residence of twelve years in this country, become acquainted' with our free institutions and free Government, was ; to be appointed Priam; ~ o r King of that country.; and I have heard that, even previous to the Treaty of the 6th of July; he had been 'satiety:l by the Greeks themselves as the fittest person to prefidat'ilrer them. Now, if this were the fact, let the house odor lle hi Seta cruel situa . iou this Prince would be placed if the state of Greece were not fully settled before he was sent out to govermatem. 1 shall only abatises, if Candle is left in poseeeskth ol'the.TiirkOritile it is chiefly peopled by Greeks, and the strattplitees are id the hands of the Turks, nothing but incur. section and civil Gar mast be the consequence. Such a state of thins must Montage' piracy, and png that unhapp y jarring interests which has so lodg prevaiM •in the east— which, fact, feemedtllle beat groundi• for out interference. thane some nissoore be- adopted to prevent them collisions the tree' must , - continue—and, probably, in time, involve all the Powers of his eyes to the foreign policy of this country. On all oecasionsigilis. I Europe. If some arrangement he not come to as to this island cessions upon foreign affairs this demon was stroked, and now it ap. what will then be the consequence P—Nothing but an inter., peered to have ri s en f rom Austria. Now ow . he tiould, y assute upon thls hhu, pol th n a t ; mitioble war, and the massacre of a people united by religious remove his a pp reh en sions, an d Wings, by language, and manners. This is a state of things Austria just as much l t f o — do with , the settlement to of speah Greece s4th as 'Stbich cannot and which must not, be allowed to exist; and I there. the noble baron had h se path ps, indeed , .fbte think th at it is the duty of parliament to interfere and put an exact precision, not so much. (Hear, hear.) And here he had no "end to It. What has given rise to such an unfortunate event I hesitation in avowing, that this country ne v er; n contemplated sf the sup. cannot say ; but, probably, it is partly owing to that evil genius Posed or suspected interference with the In ternal affairs who has hovered, though unseen, over that unfortunate country ever e deprecated all such interference, and would say, for GOD'S sake, since the 6th of July : let the Prince and Greek population settle their own i n ternal sithks ; Infest se septus !whelk mirabile dicta a and let nobody dream of forcing upon them the free institutions of other states, however admirable, but leave them to themselves. Per medics, miseetque tins; neque cernitur ulli (Cries of " hen.') Let these apprehensions of unworthy in. One thing, however, I must deprecate—and that is, any attempt to terference be banished from the noble baron's mind, for he restrain the liberty of the new state, or impose on it institutions would find in the end they were utterly unfounded. (Hear, ,which are unsuitable to the wishes of the people. Surmises have hear.) He regretted to' observe that the noble lord had not gone abroad that some such attempts were in agitation, perhaps to omitted this opportunity of renewing his reference, and giving hints please the pope, for 1 can hardly think that any other power, to him (Lord Aberdeen) respecting certain opinions which he bad even Austria, would be afraid of the contagion of liberty in that region spreading into her own dominions. If such ad i on a fanner occasion expressed on the subject of the integrity of illustlaff the Turkish empire. He had avowed, in common with his principle si-ould be acted upon, I trust it will not be sup. noble friend near him, a desire to preserve the existence of that em.. ported by either house of parliament ; but, on the contrary, that they wlli interfere on be PeoPie• alf of an injured and oppressed Aire, and he had on the present occasion no objection to repeat the same expression of opinion, accompanied by his regret at the chariot I trust, above all, that no government will be adopted which to which Turkey had risked her exposure by the late war with is not fully adapted to the wants and wishes of the people. -Russia. He said this, not from any love of the Turkish govern. I have detained the house longer than I intended ; but I trust that ment,—Gon forbid ; for he had seen and known enough of the bar. your lordships will excuse me on account of the importance of the heroes effects of these systems of rule, and the horrid excesses to subject, and that you will not give countenance to any arrangement which they had often led, to feel any particular attachment to which shall not have in view the independence of the people and them ; but he would ask their lords h ips to give him leave to the establishment of free institutions —( Hear , hear.) The noble say, that even the improvement of such a country as Turkey might lord then concluded by moving the following resolution t•'' That be sought at too high a price ' and be obtained too dearly if ware* DO pacification or settlement of Grzece will meet the approbation of at t h e r i s k of a general conv ulsion of the civilized world--(Herat:) this house; or be advantageous to the interest of Great Britain or the The destruction of the Turkish power involved a mighty change, honour of the government, which does not give to that power a and the apprehenaionc of it more or less were topics, into the con. sufficient extent of territory, by sea and land, to form a stable go. tideration of which he should not now farther enter. But when veroment ; that full power will be given to the people of that coon. the noble boron adverted to these opinions upon the polio iof up. try to adopt such institutions and such a constitution as nay be holding Turkish dominion, as being something new, he really suitable to the wishes of the great body of the people, and Bath as went a little too far, and must have for gotten that they had lone may prevent all interference of foreign powers in their domestic prevailed, and were always Maintained by British statesmen,— concerns." -by none too more strongly then one right honourab honourable - ttle • . . The Earl of ABERDEEN had hoped that his majesty's assuiance of unremitted endeavours for the pacification and final settlement of Greece ' and his confident hope of being able to lay early before the House all the papers and documents on .he subject, would have been sufficient to repress for a time the least impatience of any noble lord to enter into a discussion on the subject. But the noble lord opposite could not resist the temptation of such inviting matter, and had treated the subject in a manner certainly most unusual, and which could only be justified by well-founded suspicion of his ma jesty's advisers. That suspicion the noble lord had admitted, and he must either suppose that his majesty's ministers were indifferent to the honour of the crown, or unwilling to carry into 1 effect those stipulations by which they preferred to be bound. What right had the noble lord to entertain any such suspicion from any thhig.that had passed, in which his Majesty had been advised by his present ministers ? His Majesty's ministers, if they had not been sincerely desirous of carrying into execution the treaty of London, might have forbad the departure of a single soldier from France to go to the Mores. His Majesty's ministers did not oppose that expedition, and thus gave a proof of their desire to execute the whole object of the treaty. Therefore their acts had afforded no ground for suspicion of their sincerity. But if the noble lord's motion was unusual and extraordinary in the lonsent stage of negociatlons, and after such assurances from the 'Throne, it was still more astonishing, when its real character was considered. He was surprised that the noble lord should have shown a desire to sanction an act of wanton apoilation of a friendly power, without any principle to justify it. Indeed, he felt called upon to say, , that the noble baron appeared, throughout the whole course of his speech, instead of supporting the treaty of the 6th of July, to have actually forgotten its very existence. What proof had the noble' , baron that the treaty had In view the independence of Greece, when its avowed object was the pacification merely of that portion of the world ? There was no,doubt various motives entering into the spirit of the friendly powers, when they undertook that pacification, but not one of them extending to this degree of independence which I was now described to have been the basis uponwhich the contracting parties relied. With reference to the manner in which the treaty had been always attempted to be carried into effect, he would aver, and on that issue fearlessly abide, that wherever any part of the treaty had been deviated from, it was invariably in favour of the interests and feelings of the Greeki people—and always with a desire in that respect to go beyond, far beyond, what the framers of the treaty could have ever entertained the shadow of a hope of accom plishing. The noble baron had further bald, that there appeared to him to have been an unnecessary delay, perhaps unintentional, l in tile execution of the treaty. Now, without wishing to I enter minutely into its provisions, or to criticise them too nar- I rawly, he would ask their lordships, considerately and candidly, to reflect on their bearings. The objects of the treaty were far from being very palpably defined, and equally vague and uncertain were the means inten d for its execution; it was obvious, then, that many difficulties were likely, indeed almost necessarily, to be expected in the prosecution of such a work. When they considered these important facts, and then recollected what steps had been taken in execution of such a treaty, he had no doubt they would conclude, that in the two years which had elapsed since its enact ment, as much had been done as could be yea onably expected within that period. But the noble baron expressed an opinion that this country was indebted to the anus of Russia for the progress which had been made towards the execution of the treaty. In this supposition he begged to assure him he was greatly mistaken. There .was, on the contrary, not a shadow cf doubt, that had it not been for the war between Russia and the Porte, the execution of the treaty would have been earlier attained ; but the result of tat war, unsatisfactory as in some respects he was prepared to agree in view. hig it, had not had the lightest injurious operation, so far as re- prded the affairs of Greece; and so the noble baron would find, when he had all the papaw before him, with adequate aultentic 1 ' information upon these points. In endeavouring to follow the noble baron through his speech, he confessed he was not without 1 difficulties to encounter, for he had begun with a recital of facts so confused, both as to manner of arrangement and time of occurrence that it was really a work of labour to place them so as to admit of a regular reply. He had all through, indeed, accused his majesty's ministers, not only of a gross neglect of the principles of this treaty, but also of the most glaring impolicy in following up the events after the combat of Navarino. He should like to ask the noble baron notwithstanding he professed to be so well informed upon the subject whether the present administration had not, after all, little to say to the execution of the treatyuntil some time after the battle? Perhaps it might have occurred to the noble baron himself to know, that when the present government were charged by him with stigmatizing the officer who commanded on that occasion at Navarino, they had not sent out any authority to cause inquiry into the particulars of the transac tion. As to the gallantry of the particular action, never bad he heard it doubted : with its justification it seemed there were:contending opi. Mons, but with them this government were not identified. It was said, however, that when at first a proposal was made to them, to concur in the expedition of French troops to the Mores, they had objected,—no doubt they did,—because at that time a preconcerted plan had been arranged by the three powers for the execution of the treaty, which was intended to be effected by a naval blockade. Were they not right in adhering to the means so strictly specified, and did not the admiral and the niche effect the evacuation before the French expedition had eventually arrived ? On that ground, therefore, no just cause of complaint could be substantiated against them. The noble baron had, in another part of his speech, urged the necessity of extending this new state, so as to comprehend the island of Candle. This was, perhaps natural enough from a noble had who had declared it would have given him pleasure to have seen a Russian army ehter Constantinople. Entertaining soh an opi. nion, there could lie no great delicacy or difficulty in his mind about thropossesaion of a place of such minor importance as Candia. But these were not speculations into which the government ought to be called upon to enter. All they had to do was with the execu. don of the plighted engagements of the crown : they ought not, at all events, under the provisions of this treaty, to be called spa to seek for hew and chivalrous adventures. Indeed, he must sepia, that upon the whole of this subject the noble baron was but Tory Imperfectly informed, or else he would not have talked as he had &se of Candies. It would surprise their lordships to know how the existence of any war in Candia was to be attributed to Great Bri tain or to the allies, or how they could be called upon to interfere for its suppression. Candle was, however, not, in point of fact, in • state of war; but, on the contrary, perfectly tranquil. In the mountainous districts, as was too frequently the case in Tur kish territories, there were occasional disturbances, but of war there was none. The state or Candle, as connected with this question, was simply this :—During the operation of the block. .ads, it h adl become necessary to expel a nest of Greek pirates, and to drive than from the pans which they had infeste& Some of them fled to Candle, and there dropped a cinder to excite the flame of civil war. If it suited the purpose of the Greek provisional Government to keep up this kind of war, the case would not be altered, for, by so doing, this would he departing from the 'spirit in which the treaty was framed ; but, in point of fact, the kind et hostilities which had prevailed in Candle, was entirely at an end. '!he oldact of the treaty was, he must repeat once again, to allay, weafte olikindle a flaine between the Greeks and the Turks; but au' - _des were actually carried into Candia by the Greek they had no connexion with the objects of tbe treaty, mew, they were ho be attributed to the ' nduct= of Bag 'Nod Wallies. In the same tone of error with his preceding Obsievadoos, the noble baron had alluded to a power, which was inant limsearate even than any of the rest he had listened to, noisily, 'that Irbil* went to convey an idea' that the course shout to be tatnaettowards Greece by the friendly posses, wis one tending to pealed@ the possibility of her enjoyments of tree instituilons,and Oat Ildsoartetwas al buse d td the influence of that demon of &OP po -1 Bey, *kb sheared ever to hatun'thi noble baron when be turned' ly te... gene, man, whose opinions must be certainly as much deferred to by the noble baron as by any other man—namely, the late Mr. Fox. (Hear.) That eminent man maintained those opinions, not out of any love for the Turks, but because of his desire to preserve the peace of Europe. (Hear, hear.) The noble baron had lambs taunted the present ministers with what he was pleased to call then insufficiency, and utter want of influence over the councils et other states. To these taunts he would merely reply. that be knee the noble baron, with all his affectation of want of sources, had good information of passing events, and ought to know whs. was the real isfiuence held by this country upon the Continent.— Had they, indeed, as had been imputed to them held out meow ragemcrt to distant power to concede to her opponent, while they were seemly stimulating het to resistance, then they would deserve to have been despoiled of their influence ; but he defied the noble baron to tit proof of such treacherous conduct. Indeed, so contrary was the .reputation to the fact, that most certainly at the commencement of the late Turkish war, and even before it, the British Government most clearly foresaw the result of the struggle, and had endeavotued to avert it. Throughout that war, and when it was to be recollected the difficulty of regular communication with the Turkish Government was increased by the absence of the ministers from Constantinople, this government had always pressed the urgent necessity of a pacific policy upon the Porte. They had done so strongly at the time when the termination of the first campaign was supposed to have given the Sultan an advantage I OM Russia—an event which had never deceived himself or his col leagues. They had never deluded the Porte, or ceased to press upon the Turkish Government the policy of ueopting the pacific overtures held out by Aglaia. If on these occasions qualities of ob stinacy and an infatuated , perseverance in a hopeless struggle had marked the policy of the Saturn, the British Government, which to gether with the rest of &aye beheld the contest always with unea. sinees were at all events free from all responsibility for consequences, which they had done all in their power to avert ; what became, then, of the charges of, pusillanimity, and imbecility, and want of influ. ence in the scale of nations, which the noble baron charged against ministers ? They were all gratuitous assertions; for although their insinuation by the noble baron was calculated to produce a painful effect on their lordships' minds, still he could remember that they were not now heard for the first time. He had sat in that house for 25 years, and these accusations he had invariably heard from the noble lord under ail kinds of circumstances, and in every variety of government,—in peace or in war,—when Eng. land had allies, and when she stood alone,—when she was snuggling, and in the hour of her greatest triumph,—when it was the lot of his noble colleague near him to have finished his glorious career by giving peace to Europe in the capital of England's longest enemy. (Hear.) Recollecting these opinions of the noble baron, he hoped he would excuse him on the present occasion if he waited for his proofs before he attended seriously to his assertions. While the present Government was led by his noble friend, it would be rather odd it should be exposed to the odium of pusillanimity, at least, to the courts of Europe. What was the rolvuntege of the real power and inexhaustible resources of this country, if they did not enable her to pursue a course which to feebler poor rs was impossible ? The noble baron was, indeed, much mistaken, if he thought the policy of England was misunderstood by any of the other powers of Europe s let him refer, as he might, to the best authority, and he would find that Great Britain bad lost nothing of her wonted influence by pur suing that even and temperate policy, which, with a just attention to redeem the obligations incurred by the Crown, had preserved the general peace of the world, and amid conflicting difficulties.—(hear, hew) In this policy they meant to persevere, knowing it would be respected by those who were best disposed to act wisely, and whose respect was most valuable ; and, above all, they were determined to abstain from that restless, unsettled, and meddling policy, which was the snout likely to embroil nations in perpetual war: —(hear , hear.) Indeed, the noble baron seemed more disposed to rest hL motion upon the faith of precedents, than on his arguments, and had therefore laid no solid ground tor its adoption. Under these decant. stances, feeling that he could not more particularly explain arrange. merits which were in course of settlement that he could not even ip more fully into the correction of the noble baron's errors, or explain away by further facts his misapprehensions, he must entreat their lord. ships not to vote upon suspicions which were manifestly unfounded, or alleged facts that were alike unwarranted • but to wait until the time arrived when the fullest information could be given, and a hich he promised them would show a very different state of things, and conduct them to a very different result, from that pointed out by the noble baron's resolutions, to which he now, in conclusion, begged leave to move the previous question. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE had heard, indeed, that the government had interfered; for when the Russians were at Adria. nople, they had intimated, that if they proceeded to advance upon the capital, the fleet of the Dardanelles would sail up to Constan tinople, and realm its occupation. The result, however, was, that this d version was not three card until it became useless, and it was therefore more important ti erect a barrier now in Greece, when it was seen how that of Turkey had been overthrown Lord MELBOURNE raid that, in his opinion, the great question on the Turkish war was, whether the integrity of that empire was worth preserving at the risk of a war with Russia ?—(Hear.) If, upon that question, ministers had made up their minds in the affirmative, they ought to have pursued their object at all events. Such, he believed, was the view which the noble duke took of the question.—But, if government had derided not to abide the risk, they ought not, in any case, to have given the least encourage ment to the Turks to resist, as, unfortunately, some expres. scone in the speech of the noble duke, at the beginning of the session, had the effect of doing. He should not now thecuss the question ; but he wished to call the attention of the House to one Important fact. Turkey had been represented as playing the most blind and stupid part throughout this war • but war this the fact ? Towards Russia only was she undoubted ly blind ;—itnnie. diately after the noble Duke came into power, she published that violent paper of Alterman which gave the Russians a right to go to RN. But wbatwas the conduct of Turkey toviards this country sod fence?—She bore every thing, She bore the protocol signed by the noble Duke; she bore the Treaty of July ; she bore the ex pedition to the Mores. The only solution of this incept& tency was, that she was encouraged by this country and France to resist Russia. lie did not mean to say distinctly that any pledge had been given—he would not impute such perfidy towards Runde to the British government ; but he fully believed that the Turks were given to understand that if they resisted they would , be supported Ilia noble friend, the noble secretary, had taken credit to ministers for going farther than the letter of the treaty ; but was it forgotten that circumstances had very much altered since the making of that treaty ? With respect to the:new State, he hoped that it would be made not a blot in the list of States, or an incumbrance amongst the number of our friends, but a substantial and usefid ally. He was glad to hear that there was no intention of interfering with the internal government of the new state, but that It should be at liberty to adopt such institutions as it pleased. That was the right course for this country.to pursue; and he was delighted with the distinct assurance that there was re intention of interfering with the internal affairs of the new stet Lord NRICH congratulated the government e claration of nee ty, ' of used my noble friend has afforded, yet as some things have been stated sloop be sat down, more particularly by the noble lord u p on the Mead bench, w hom, if he will allow me, I will call my noble hied (Lord Melbourne) 1 shall trouble you with a very few words apett.this occasion. My Lords, his Majesty, in his speech from the ihrone,dellvered upon the first day of the session by the Lords Commissioners, has stated to you, that he had concerted with his allies a plan for the pacification of Greece, and in order to Sol* into effect the treaty of the 27th Ca July ; and be promises you be will shortly lay before you all the circumstances necessary to enable you to form a judgment upon the course which he will pursue with respect to these transactions. The noble lord comes down and tells you, " don't wait for the communication which the King has promised in his gracious Speech to you ; don't wait for the plans, but at once adopt the proposition es stated by the noble lord, and resolve that the plan of the f t w hichi sf y y o uth t oteh theehonour befl o ocodre t ho." s y ko co ue s e n kto tr n y o . wy ' o ' us7h ' c r taii. h ? which not r t her propositions w a ll, n upon s a miti 11ee or no the plan is irrevocably fixed, and without knowing whether th e plan upon which you resolve will have any influence upon our pro ckedings for the future. But I ask whether this is a situation in which the house ought to place itself? or whether it is consistent with its dignity to come forward and enter into resolutions such a• this, without knowing whether the crown would alter one tittle of the arrangements which it had already made ? The noble lord alludes to the resolution of 1827 ; but what can be more ridiculous than that resolution, except that which the noble lord moved tonight, and by which 1 would call on your lordships to vote that you had lost all confidence in his majesty's ministers, and particularly in myself ? To prove that, however, what dues the noble lord do ? Why, he collects stories from newspapers, and makes a statement with an absolute contempt for dates and facts. My noble friend (Lard Melbourne) says thtt the Turks were encouraged to publish their hatti-scheriff or ma nifesto, or whatever it was, by the circumstance of my coming into power. Now, my noble friend says he is well informed upon this subject • but if he consulted with the sources of his information a little more closely, he would find that the manifesto was published before the parliament met, or I was hi office. The offence, therefore, was not in any thing done here is in the King's speech, for that was delivered before, the King's specter being delivered the 29th of January. The truth is, though it 11 , 4.4 not published, that the hatti-acheriff was delivered to the Grand Seignior long before the Ministers left Constantinople. Now, to charge me in this way with that with which I had nothing to do. is what, I must say, something like being too bad—(A laugh). The noble lord alludes also to Navarino, and asks why we did not block. ado the Dardanelles, and why other consequences did not follow with which I have just as much to do as with the hatti-scheriff? The order was given by the preceding government ; and they sod very properly, to show their determination to carry into Abet the treaty of the 27th of July. 1 have followed their At eeryie and have not advised the blockade of the Dardanelles, but accommodated myself to citeumstances. Our principle was to mho hostilities to the circumstances wuich rendered them neceso vary. Ido not mean to reproach the noble viscount fur the Ines. sures which he has taken, but I will say, on the part of the present government, that they ave not forfeited the confidence of the country, and that they could not forfeit it by measures of which others were the authors. The noble baron has brought a variety of charges against the government, into the details of which it is impossible for me to enter without laying papers before the house, of which they are now in possession. Tins much, however, I will say, that there is not one of the acts alluded to by the noble lord which 1 could not justify in the most satisfactory manner, if brought before your lordships in a tangible shape. But the noble baron had alarmed us on account of the Russian war.— Again, I would beg to remind him of the importance of facts and dates. He would beg to tell him that the ambassadors of the three Powers retired from Constantinople in December, and that 1 did not come into office until the January following. (Lord cries of Hear, hear). From the time I caine into office I omitted no opportunity of communicating with the Pelt:, and of doing all that could be done by the influence of this government to prevail on the Porte to give to his Russian majesty the satisfaction to which he was entitled. His majesty's government did all that they colud, but in vain, and, having failed in that object, it was impossible that they could prevent the war from taking place.—(Hear, hear.) It is quite a mistake to suppose that we had ever been deceived as to the result. For my own part, I never dreamt that it could have teiminated otherwise, and I could produce many proofs, If necessary, to show not only that I thought all along that the war must come to the one result, but that It ought to have come to it in the course of the first campaign. I should have felt that I was abandoning my duty if I had not exerted-myself all along with the Porte for the purpose of bringing about a peace. But the noble baron says, " Oh ! your language led to the war." On the contrary, I maintain that our language neither could have, nor was intended to have, any such effect. We were most anxious to prevent war. (Hear, hear.) When I say that we were most anxious to prevent war, let me not be mistaken. Imu a firmly believe, notwithstanding the distress of this country, that there 'never was a moment in her history when she wa more capable of embarking in a war for any legitimate object. I do most firmly believe that there never was a period when our resources were more available, or when her establishments were so effective. No. Ido not even except that period when, as the noble baron has said, she was capable of contending against the world is arms, But, taking all this into consideration, there were still other questions to be asked. In the first place, would it be a just war: —(Hear, hear.) It would not, for no one can deny that the first insult proceeded from the Porte. In the next place, would it be a politic war ? We were engaged with Russia and France in the endeavour to accomplish the settlement of Greece—an object which the Parliament, if not the people of this country, bad deeply at heart. We had to consider what the effect cf a war might be upon that object ; and seeing that such a war must sooner or later embroil the whole world. we were bound to consider deeply all the consequences before wo meditated war. After all, the Turkish power still exists in Europe, and there is every reason to hope that the Sultan will be able to establish himself In a little time so as to be able to act his part in the general system of Europe...a The noble baron blames us also for not having carried on active hostilities against the Turks, in pursuance of the treaty of the 6th of July. If there was any principle which the right ho. pourable gentleman, with whom an these transactions originated. insisted on more strongly than another, it was the principle that the treaty should be carried into effect without any act of hostility. I know this to have been the cue, for I received first instructions on the subject, which were distinctly to that effea. But that is not all. The treaty itself provides that we should rot mix ourselves up with any of the hostile attempts of the part!es. The government did contemplate ulterior measures, ttntd tit battle of Navarino was ore of the results. And here again I sock! call upon the noble baton to ambit to facts and dates. It is Ira,: that an arrangement was made with the Egyptian troops for Vie evacuation of the Mores, and it is true also that troops were sect to compel that evacuation—but, at the time the troops were sell. it was not known what arrangements were made upon the sub ject. Such, IWI assure the noble baron, was the train and order of the facts to which he has alluded. I say, that throughote the whole of those transactions we were guided by the spirit of re. treaty,:and of the declaration made by his Majesty to L'arliainest. Our object was a peaceable settlement of Greece, and not a distwb ance which might promote the purposes of extensive empi e. hits: again, the noble baron has accused us of omitting to• include tote island of Candle within the new territory of Greece. This is hard.) fair—thi noble lord knows as well as I do that the Protocol of thL 27th of Meech did not include that island, so diet Candia was omitted by the coMbjned act of the Allies. But he says yea ought to have made a new arrangement, which should include it. Tee noble baron should reflect, however, that, if we were resolved to give Candia to Greece, we must first conquer it front the Turk.. —(hear, bean) And, as I have said 'Were, neither the terms nor the spirit of the treaty could justify us in conquering any thing for the Greek's. For the reasons which I have already stated, and which I Could prove still inure distinctly If I had the papers be. fore me which are at the command of the house, I shall conclude by moving the previous question upon the resit:wive of the rued , baron. —(bw, heo.) Lord HOLLAND said he should not press the house to n diet. eion, but would willingly acquiesce in due previous queNtion..if i.e did not wish that his motion should appear upon the Journal.. lie wished at the nine time to offer one or two words upon abet h:1 , l (ellen from the noble duke, and a noble earl, in the course of tbr debate. The noble cad (of Aberdeen) had given him credit for sources of intelligence which he did not possess, and had claimed to himself an authority in which he was equally mistaken. He had quoted the opinion of a distinguished relative of his. to whom he could not allude, even at this distance of time, without feel. ings of strong emotion. The noble lord had assumed that Mr. fox was favourable to the policy of mainaining the integrity ig the Turkish empire, and was even willing to guarantee it. He ILOrd Holland) could not pretend to recollect every expression which had (ellen from his distinguished relative, nor all the co• ctunstancee which might colour his opinions at different Chess nut this he could say, that it was his uoifonn wish to ace the Turks driven out of Europe—(hear, hear.) The noble earl bah! up let be =. 31i. Fes's opiltione ha 1 •• intention or unerterui_E waw !Hi lIIWAINO. mg..le VS lgli AM.I 6%.1.y. . •••••" •.• ••••• •••-- - -- • • • Loud GODERICH congratulated the meat upon the de- his hoods; but did he an to say that he knell, Mi. `no's opinion, elaration which they had made of neu •I ty. as concerned the ih- how than he (ill' Holland') ? Ir a contrary sentiment hall ait• . Eed taroal Akin of the new government of ' . He hoped, hmrsver. or any time In soy of Mr. Fox's speeches, the smell !haat thst our legitimate influence would be used to prevent any other ve been ill POW, and the tenor of hie sentiments Mistakvn. power. Nom shackling that people In the choice Of their imthutiods. h *Urban Egypt had fallen tate the hands 04 . the We Might to persuadethem to adopt our owWinititudons,lrit np r.it, Mr, Fox depleted that event, as injurious to the only to *ow the world that we boar with dies* lees as grievances, lotere sti tierh country in the war she was then prosecatias, he l ed 00 1 than . them isiblviings. Such * gift to the'new stfte irony, iinil .Pa aiU riteageSiOn• that It was ilk*_tia le td to ' l44 ' be t with ' , glans' grawillSyl sad the public . intswthc— I.', 1 Tvriusa etialdre. Until qse ie . cs,rl ii . sd sunsd in 'lord an ' tb• notiook: - • : alai t the *Wit" of the I\i/Vphfiluilre !fp NWAV to 1;140TClitl-- M i e La*, s i t o ol ordectly , OA iicAer In 'EttroPe, efch a *kins* bad - mow Iwo I " with :g.e'defenee of ale Wittman 'lMileir the speedit' Of sio - ithin the Walls of Parlismentat Lead ' lie could say that -.-