Star. — London, England, 1829-04-29 00:00:00

Go. , have thvalfect of quieting every murmur of the kind?" Uprorthet - suggestion be now acted ; and thilieh' be . could not hut regret that the duty had not devolved upon persons abler than himself—though hgregretted that it had not been discharged by a bleat - et of his • Pllaletty's Governatent —still he trusted that Ire should mat with support; and he honed he would be allowed the time and patienee of the House while he gave a rea son for thiscouree he wes shoot to take. With respect to the great importance of the question pending, it was unnecessary to enforce it on a country remarkable for the extent of its parochial assessments. By the returns of 188 it appeared that the poor rates of England and Wales amounted to 7.334,2661. and of that enormous seas 1,362,00Q1. and some odd pounds were paid for other purposes than supporting the poor ; that is seven teen per sent. out of the whole. it was not told how this money was disposed of ; but a great part of it 1111011 l go to the collection of that enormous assessment. The sum thus levied for poor rates was a great deal larger than the total revenue of many States of Europe. But to it must be added four millions more lie paving. lighting, watching, church rates, &c. making, is all, neatly twelve mill6os raised by parochial contribution. It was worthy of remark that the revenue of the Otto man empire was only ten millions; that of the United States something above five millions; while the aggro- . gate amount of the yearly revenues of the two Sicilies r Sp.in;end Pro tugal s amounted to 12 500.0001 exceeding the parochial assessments of England by not much ;note chart half a million: 1n1.795 the poor rates of this , roomy were only two millions bnd a hilt. If he turned from aggregate statements to defisilwthe east• would be still more striking. In one parish of the metropolis the parochial assessments am-oared to 173.0001 a sum exceeding the revenue of many Ger man States. parish at St. James they amounted to 63.0001.—m Saint Giles's and Sam Georges to 50,0001.—in Clakenwell to 36.0001. (a sum making ju t twice as great a revenue as that arising from the German principality of Hesse Homburg)—in St. Mar.' this to 30.0001.—aud in St. Pancras to-38,0001. The petochial assessments of Middle , ei amounted to 759 0001. out of which 101.0001. was paid for other purputes th in the relief of the poor. Now, *hen thesi immense aunts were levied off parishes, was it not Do. torsi that they `should be anxious to know how they' were expended ? When jealousy; was en•ertaisted of an officer so high its situation as the Chancellor of the Es chequer, was it not nutria' that parishes should leel • • jealous' of persons livihnin they saw controulling their parse. and whom they cowed not think higher or bah" thitil themselves? He would ask whether it were nu. cessery that a self-elected and uncontroullable body should be roasters of vie purse of pariihinners as they tit resent indubitably were? Honourable Members would be aware that the constitution,* the country did not recognise any such power. He would refer to the autholity f Dr. Borne, who said. that anciently, and by common law, parishioners paying scot and lit re gulated parochial affairs, -and no other persons had a right to come to their meetings; and he further said. that select vestries originated in the practice of parishes choosing persons to manage Their affairs, through which they gradually were dispossessed of their rights, both of dr mg so themselves and of electing their own ma nagers. He (Mr. Hobbouse) bad beard it stated from the Bench that there was a tight . by . prescription sane stn Stilect Vestries. He dissented completeiy from. teat opinion. A• to any .ancient prescriptive usage, it was mutely out -of the question, but many of the rights of the Select Vestries were - very modern indeed. Fos instaisce. that one, the nightly watch, commenced in the time of 'George the Second; the" paving and lighting with the 10th of George' the Second ; and. as every body knew. tie pi or rates with the 43dof E both. These Select Vestries had noancient tights. The' manner in which they were first of all constituted they . had been told be the quotation fitioi Dr. Butte. was admitted that they were not authorized by Act of Parliament, but by what was called custom. He could . find na very ancient authority for that custom. He found that. in 1691, an issue bad been 'teed allay ar.ith. respect to a parish. ins which occasion the custom b a d been held good; bat. with reference to' that case, the commentator observed that, neither the lessoning nor argument ever having been mentioned, it was impossible to say on' what precedent the drcisiotrwas founded.. In 1740, o.t the other hand, in .the ease of the parish of Nottballerton, the cutout was • held to be " It might. not be useless to go into a caul which went nearer the point in question than any he had been able to dis cover. He mimed to the case of the perish of Sr- Martits-iasthesifields, one of those he bad the honour to represent. That parish once embraced a number •ol others, and it might not be amiss. , to show how the Be leet fest. y .systeni crept into it. and, totteacte the effect of that system upon it. The eisslieitdate!sf the pariah books was, horn 1706. In 1662 a Select Vestry was created by a Bishop of London, and in - 1673 bisect was confirmed by another Bishop of London: The chief appointment of Select Vestries was, however, by Act 10 of Anne , authorising the building of certain new churches. arid the nomination of parochial commis sioners. gifted with the power of fillinic up vacancies in th• it bWy by a voted their own. In tlusact nominating thesecotnmissioners the palish of Ss. Martin-in-the-fields w as given as a model. It appeaee I that great disturbances and discontent prevailed inconsequence of the mode of snanagenient adopted by these Select Vouries; and on the 15014 May, 1693, leave was peen to bring in a. Bilho•regulate the abu:ei of the Select Vestries wriihio the bins oi mortality. Amongst the petitions against ' that ffill was one f oqs,the parish of St. &odour. South wark, 'which stated dui Select Vestries wore founded in custom; but, on trial by-law afterwards, that very parish was found to have usurped, the pow er, and St. Saiiooes. Blythe ark, was at that moment. under pusr . . . polar coattail. The affairs of the parish 4 Sc. Martio., Kf.eueminster, then underwent examinatio% and woe reportedunfavourably, it having appeared tkat not out half of qui money raised for poor rates had been applies to that purpose. The consequence was. that on the 240' .t 4 May, 1.716, the Bill to regulate the abuses of Select Vestries within the bills of mortality was carried in the • - Hosts, of—Commons hi's majority of 135 to 34. On _,;, looking over the juornalsof the House be ob,Vvrd that the Committee had dyne a very minsUal thing. They had coast to the bar-of tie Mosso, and said at they bad omitted.one item in the parochial accosint , , which . was the itee of 491. 17s. for a dinner to - tbo Church . iivettfetig' if the Mulberry Gardena, by which it ap ',,,. peatetidiet the practice of feasting at the expense of , the parish was by no - means 'Oder& the year 174) petitions were presented from Arariefal palkhes. The facts which he bad stated showed that the Corruptions and Apses charged upotirtielect Vestries were 'not of modern growth. Indeefi c , the parish of St. MMtin, being liftable, to obtain 'chef from Parliament, hafiespolese upon: four several .oceasiemi to • the Court ofTitle:l Bench. , Two of the reecnds Mating to ,the questMs were io eaistence. One of Seal showed that the clime: • von of the existence of a Select Vestry in the pert* et 'St. Ilfastisr:sufte to trial in 1791, Wok Locci-lielaialli ars a feipod ism, ofvbkh,tbe terms 1... upon by bothrilies. - ThiJory peesentall the to, 1111 fret, finding that therelsed been a Select Vests, th om time immemorial. Opt* this Lotd ICellyoll (*- anima, that-unless the number hid been always fixed; the custom was Pio an ill one; and upon this the Jury having retired,foond that the number bad alweysbeen49 The House would be surprised to .heat that.. when by mandamus. sad other means access was afterwards had to the books of the parish, it appeared that the number bad been not 49, but 22, and had never exceeded the -latter number. It was impossible -ur suppose' that the Jury could have found as they had done if they had an opportunity of inspecting the books df the parish. The Select Vestry. however, continued, in consequence of the verdict, to maintain posoission of the power which they had previously enjoyed. In 1828 the parish again attempted to release themselves from the oppression of the Select Vestry. and the same issue which bad been formerly tried was agreed upon between the Vestry and the parish as the question to be decided. The case came before Lord Teo* terden, who. for some teas- ns best known to. hinstel& struck out the words 0 certain som ber," and left the question to be tried upon the esist ' once of a stint set of persons having used tb manage the affairs of the pitisb. This alteration in the form of the issue was in direct opposition to the Opinion of Lord Kenyon, who had said that the limited number of the Select Vestrymen was of the essence of the ques. 'bon. The result cf the alteration was, however, to produce a verdift esactly the.same at in the.former case, wird) enabled the Select Vestry to rule the parish ever since: However, 'Other parishes had beep more tortuous. One or two took the law into their 0,10 hands, • and succeeded in obtaining the ti'dminiytratici of their own affairs. althmigh the method by, which they accomplished the &loci was a little singular. The pariahioners of St. Ana's, Soho. one day broke into the Vestry, burnt all the account books. made themselees an open Parochial Vestry, and have so continued ever since. The inhabitants of St. Poufs, Coventsgarden, ,had recourse to a similar measure with like success; ' and the Select Vestry in the I Ater parish. although they bad been in possession of their power fur owe hundred and. seventy years, 'allowed judgment to .go Eby default. In the case of the parish of St. (like, the custom was ,found to be not reasonable—Vicar). — Other Select Vestries existed iu consequence of Acts of Parliament, as - tbet of St. James's, Westasineler..W.hith lusted opoo a statute passed in the reign of James the Second. He (Mr. Hobbotoe) was aware that some of the .elections of vestrymen in the country had been at. tended with great tumult. and be admitted that the Bills brought into that H 4 use in 1818 and 1819, by the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. S. Bourne), and which afterwards were enacted. had produced great benefit throughout the country. He should wily observe upoo that subject, that the prevision for enabling per ,sons to vote rateable to their property cOuld not be in troduced into the Metropolis. There were in England and Wales 2,868 Select Vestries existing. some in con sequence of the Act's of 1818 and 1819, some by cus 7 torn. and some on the authority of pirate Acts of Par liament. la most of these existed great abuses, but throe did not seem to be much greater now than they wete a hundred years ago. At that period a very isr genions co hor.Defoe, the author of "RobinsonCrusor o * published a work- upon the subject, from which, art was not perhaps as well known to the House as tke .r Life and Advvntores of Robinson Crusoe:' t e should beg leave to re •d an extract. (rise Honourable Member then proceeded to read an extract from the work, which was . called " Parochial Tyranny."- and which was to the effect, that there were no greater abuses in the world than those of select' vestries; that they exercised the most flagrant of 41 tyrannies, turning the people into thegreitest of slaves, and : obliged them to pray the • King,to' telease them from the jaws of these devout ers, who !eit riders in atriums, sad who, instead of circu lating, Luke other governing bodies, only stagnated and stunk in the nostrils of the people. Rogue succeeded to rogue in perpetual rritatiori, and if the Select Vestry, by accident or mistake, chose one honest man amongst them. he was either soon rendered as corrupt as them selves. or obliged to retire altogether ; for it might be said of a Select Vestry as of the Mint, that, although a man might go in honest, he never came out any t hug but a rogue). "Such was the tennor of the extract read by the Hun. Member, to which he added another from Dr. Borne, who pronounced the st stem to bean uncoil* stitiniiinal, oppressive, and nefarious annihilation Of the 'rights of the parishioners. In 1825, the Hon. Member for Waterford had brought into the House a Bill . for the cortection ot the abuses of Select Vestries in Ire land, and the principle of that measure he (Mr. Hob* house) meant to introduce wholly, or pattly..4 . be could obtain a Committee for the consideration of the subject. He now proceeded to the fagot of the case, which trete more accessible than I . in rezti conse quence of the Vestries having been e .. by dit latent means, to submit their acco‘nts tor' public' in spection.• He did not wish to dwell, upon the dingier which bad been given to the late worali) Rector 'of Si; Paul's, Cogent Garden, upon hes mating a visit to the pauper children at N rwuod. and in wilich,between the bucellas, sherry, and champagne. with roat•peter and noyeau, - the ex e rose amounted to $44. The Honourable Member litre catenated a variety of visitation dinners and venison feasts, costing the parish- 4247.. 471. lls: and athrr similar sums f tr each separate emestainment. There a as, huoever, one item which, frog its great singulaiity, he thought deserving of the 'pedal +men tion of the douse—it was an item of 1054 18.:$1..!. in curred to IblB for busing the ltectot ! He believed that ii the witty Rector Lomeli had been consulted during his lie opts the i•ibject, he would have objected to bring buried at b.) great an expense to she partalt...; tA. leap). Some explanation of this transaction was afforded upon . inspecting the accounts of the under: takers, who,appraied to be the Messrs. Boordillons, a vrry odd passe tot persons employed in burying an English Parson. The fact, however, was. that they were not Indy the undestakers, but also meralers of I the Select Vestry; and ibis ciscumstanee would afford some clue to the whole transaction. In the parish of Mary-la-Bonne, the Select Vestty consisted of one. hundred ant( twebty three persons, whe teview their own acts, and who an 1b24 raised the parish rates front 2s. 6d. to Ss. 4J. in the pound. In the parish. of ft. James, for. the 144 tea.• years, the accounts of the .Guardians of the Poor leaf been audited by themselves, the appeal *bin appeased to ezist being only from Philip routilt . to Philip. sober. In the parish of St. *George the Select Vests y had in one. year charged a ,pipe.of wine' for the communion service. In Christ Church, Spitalfields, 801. had been charged for care 'in inci gilding 'the legs of * the COMIDIIOIOII table, land then a cloth wet purchased for the purpose of con cealing„, thii carving and gilding from the eyes of the -parisliseners. Upon another uccesion, 501. were charged -bra pair o f Invi t es. In Sr. Giles and St. Geroge s, Bloontabory, in 1820, twelve mess voted 1,6401. for the tepeirs - of the 'church, and took the mosey out of the peer rates;' and %ULM the.money wasafter wards di 'Tided amongst four of the mat who voted itows7.- _-- He now came to the account"; oribe ishenit s At a's Mar tin.... appealu_s)b that day's balance of the expense of Vai4Elleor &.* slintteeti is 1320. was 511. 16s. It tied varied , different year frion then wail 18517, whonAt aa6"flted to ' B7l ' 2* 6d . There also appe.red eie;y vest a charge of SSL 10i. 7d. for Bibles and Prayer *coke; but. althollalt the antrfwas .made in the pltual nomber, it appeared on esamot nation. that the expense was incurred for one Bible and one Prater Book, whieh were always presented to the smiting churchwardens. Teem .wiss also an item of 481. 12s. 9J. to Messrs. and and Adam, " for the Arthdeacon's truisms," which was a corn' . poition preached by the Archdeacon 'on the occa sion of the death of the ever-to-be-lamented Queen Outdate. The sermon. homelier, unfnittinately did not sell, and the parish made good the expense of printing, &c. Sir Michaud Birnie, when Churchwarden. was declared, on settling his accounts, entitled to a balance of 401. 101. Sd., which he very properly presented to the parochial schools. The fact, however. was. the account pupating to be so balanced was not given until sixteen year. alter the appearance of this item. Tittle was another transaction Which - he (Mr. Hobhmtse) tem. 'jived as highly penal. It appeared that in the watch account a gratuity of 1301. per annum bad been given . for many years to Mt. Frederick Booth. the vestry desk. This sum had. by' lying in the hands of the vesery._ in .cteased to 41111 10.. and nowthe principal and interest' amounted to 55811. In the sam.e accounts it epoepred that the same Mr. Booth received.annually about Vol. for law expenses. The nest item was scarcely creitilte, 'bet may' be seen by any Gentleman who thnuld take the' trouble of examining..the bobk,.. It was en item, rieted Feb. 5. 1813..0f 61. -or the expense of a P. tition aeitinst the Catholics. H • had no objection to the Select Vestry pesetionina against the Catliceies, biit he thought jt wery, improper that ti!ey .should charge tee Petition upoo a par Val.the majority of whom inhabitants had sent to Par liament two representatives favourable to Roman Catho lic Emancipation. • This'conduct of the Select Truro of St: Martin's the .Non. Member designated under the name of atrocity. He now proceeded to other emisi derati ns. It had been said that the memo; r f of the Select Vestries received no compensation for their ser vice?. ; but if they receivra no direct compensation them selves they, had the power of procuring it foe those whom, they employed, and of obtaining influence over trades men 'who may expect to obtain orders lroniti.e They had even gone so far.' as to take mom them to at tempt at the.notoination of Members of Par liament. In the books of September 19, 1806. these •appemed a memorandum that the board then sitting had been,con gene& in compliance with the tequest orthe then'Earl Percyoina Duke i.f Northumberland. The N - r —I I. had expressed a great desire to pay his-respect'. to the- Veiny before he presented himself a eaadidtte for the representation of Westminster. - and the board resolved that he waes !toy fit and proper person to represeiAthe city in Parliament. • Tnis coarse he (Mr. Hobisonte) considered very imploper. It Was not. bovievet.. without a 'parallel, as Mr. Paul had gnu, to the :Se lect Vestry in the 'acne manner; hot they agreed. 'in' hi, case, that he was not al fit person to -tepressoc • the, city of Westmitister—(Hear)... It was titre that the Salim Vestries rendered accounts of their teceipte and ispenditurec but "they Were hide calculated to afford satisi.ction, and still less was there any to be had iron .. Magotraits who were themselves suen.beis o f the SeltectVestr 7, and who had; in fact, on teem id occasions, gnashed appeals Which had been presented on the sob jec.t. .He should not mention names in conjunction with, the statement which he was about to make. •but be believed that theY•weull . come .nut some d. y or other. There was a Magistrate who was 6/it'd of siogis.g. and , . whowlways.sung the first sods sal ec !hater at.the vitae; of the. Select Vestei,atothtfitiZ often guatheetthe appeals of the parish ionet s ipaiast, the expenditure &ilia Select Teary. Sir Richard:Bet nicand Mr. Halls' had treated the complaints of the par ithiciners in a way which was not very becoming. - lh the parishes where the Se: lect Vestries existed there 'listed greardiscootent, ssirils[, reverse was the case in regard to that. which were uodtr a popular systenr.of election. • It was also a fact, ' showing the advantages of populai tepresentstionetbi in she parish of St. Lute, Chelsea, where the Yettey' r bad been from select made popular, the :awl- had been.. reduced from four shillings and sixpence to tv4-e541 lingo and seven-pence in the pound. In those parishes in which the Select Vestry system was in uneratioo VIM* of Sc. Mary•le•Bow; St. Giles. Holborn; St. George, Bloomsbory.r.Ond St. Andrew, Holborn, for exassiples the greatest possible dissatisfaction and ferteenilie: vatted. ' He knew very well that 'it was pretty - 11(Pe!. rally said, that if that system were altered, andthet tett • washed to the elective pinciple, popular tumult would be the necessary result. and that, in point of fact, popular tomtits bad taken place in parishes so situated. Those tumults and dissatisfactions bed. however, pines in the parishes referred to, because the true principle of popular &cotton had been depaned from ; but, in fact, to thaw pari-bes, after some , loud . . speeches %tete pro ipounced. the election of Churchwardenstoor place. /old. every thing ended satisfactorily. Tie elective principle. was not, therefore, so objectionable at it had been repot vented; et was lactose, Tee* g.. teed in several that had passed that House, and' were in progtesslo!thg. other House of Parliament, and amongst others to tie Covent Garden Bill, in which pirish.(St. Paul)anmpen Vestry was held according to .usage. The betsefitial effect of scrutiny . *upon the expenditure was !?no sttongly exemplified in the parish' of St. Mar/ Lisa; bonito. where the difference or expenditure beitetia; the years 1827 and 1828, in which the .different sass, toms prevailed, the espenditore the year 1828. being less than that of 1827 by- no less a .sum .-than 141,0001. To show the elect -of the two .prineipki on rates, he begged leave to refer to the case or the parish of Walcot, in the city' of. Bath, which Contained b 7,000 inhabitants, and in which, under the sy stein of oversee's, the average _rate (of • three years. 'enel tug in 1822) had been 7.9421. and the expense Of each pauper 91. 4s. 2i. but; under 'the operant*. the Act of the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite (Mr. Sturges Bourne), the annual average tate wail only 4,0901. and each pauper cost only. 51.165. 10d: A l . that parish, moreover, the utmost harmony prevailaik Annual elections took place, the Minister being on thew occasions generally in the chair. The House would find, on comparing those results with what occurred he Pancras parish, a - very great difference. ' Itt-the . latteef. under the head of pools' rates, he' found a charge sof 30,6991. with only seven hundred and seventy•khr*e . poor to maintain at an expense 0t,8,6211.the testa the gross sum being expended on miscellaneous:objeetet' If the Walcot palish system were applied 'to the ne teal expenditure for the poor in Pancras pariih,,s(the sum being 1011 L) it would be found capcble' of supporting not only 773 persons; but 2,708. The would. therefore, see, that even without going the whole length of altering the system, much good might result from a gessideration of the question, with , • even a partial change. Honourable Members woad. sea that the change was not intended to be estinded the canary at latge s - but'astrely to the parishes of :the metre polls. Local reform would be lieneScial act usiy to the inhabitants but vi the Clergy thriesservess awl of whom would be glad to see the question in at rests f + in some cases they bad become. Obis , si nus from the idea that they were favoetabl: to the &l ett Vestry spit. in. It bad been . original"( .his iistentitas to move tot - !eere Sri bring in a ' Ili l for rl4 l pu t. PO e of effecting such. a . refor4n 7 but so nn e asionni ... she subject. he found it one of so much diffi.-. o p y. ;:. *Airing so many different interests and so muc h or l ocal detail. tbatbe thought it would be more revere.' to the House to move for the appointment of a y r i lut Committee to take the whole question fairly into con. sieeration, and with a motion to that effect it was hit ii.tention to conclude. Ahlr ugh it was probable h e Ai% ii, rot have brought over all Honourable Membe r , to Ime opinion, hr. neves theless. could not suffer blo w y to believe that any Honourable Gentleman sto l id iv tempt to stop' the inquiry is Maine. He th ough that, from the wavelet,' of the case, it was mem o " 11. t soinethiag should be .. done—that• some measure should be resorted to capable of test°, ing tiarq u in" in those pa.ishes in whiclr discontent prevailed so e . •clustettly. at; present. Objections to universal I . 2 f, age might be used; but as no Honoura'sle Gentleman is os ij Ben, that taxation and representation thouldgo'to gs , Aber, he did hope that those heal Roliament s wield not be allowed to possess a pe.wer which the Paili as ,,,, , ef the empire had never exercised or assum.d. n u Honeirrable Member concluded by movieg—o z u , 1 .','Select Vrintraittee be appointed to inquire into the germ sat °potation and effect of the la as tinder which sc ut Veatiies are appointed in England and Wales." ....... Mr. Secretary . PEEL said it was not his intention t o offer opposi,ion to the motion of the Honourable Hess. d emos .. so f at as the proposed inquiry might be capable of discovering irone means bt whsch.t4 check the mi.. management or •misakipliciitioii of loyal tunsh; bat he begged, thallu thin acquiescing in the morionef the Honourable Member,' lee might , not be understoud to concur in, any ot.the charges - which the Honours. ble Member had stated, and he (Nlr. Peel) Criaight ton widely, age iist loc:11 Vestries, and still lestin the argument if the Hon. usable Gentleman, that the fle. lect Vesteia s of London and its 'vicinity ought to to abotiihid. He (Mr; Nei) ilieuglit 'that local fund., like all other.public fiords, ought tar undergo isulhsi ra s Bih; ; but he did riot agree with the Honorable Mew be.. that so tar as the parishes of London trete cos. aerned, the remedy Of existing evils .seas to be found in parish elections. He thosislis e on the contrary,•the More protection would he round in the character (t (ientlemen of respectability . and wealth,' rho rtioeti undertake the cake. than it in their room were ti ki. toted persons chosen at in ttectien sellete everyman who paid a local rate oas entitled to via% He biped the Honourable Gentleman 'told bear in mind the .recommendlition of the Committee over ehich his R ght Honourable friend (Mr. Stbrges Bonnie) had so ably . piesided. That Cominiitee having had evide nc e before it. proving that universal tuft age andthe election ii-aunttal. Overseers had produced great evil, teems isiended a revisal of that system, that the gratuitorn latticed of °me:seers should be dispensed with, that .in their loom salaried Overseers should be appointed, and that the affairs of perishes should be managed by Select Vestries. Frans the adoption of that recqemen d,tion of the Committee be beieved great alivantages had been. esperienceda Bo far as the Honourable ..M'ensbet's Motion, thetefore„Coniempletell the establish ment of checks upon local espeischtureeheacquieseed 'in'it, but.fie wished to.guard himself against the infens encebf concurrence in all the, viewssal e Hoe. Mgmbst. 'soil moreparticul4f ly against theidea nice acquiesced ii4fie :tegument that the principle of be Select, Vestry ;1 .. systemlhoild be departed from, 'and that that of nisi. vassal suffrage *Meld bit • substitsited for it. Uodoubtedly itimight. happen that. some impiovemtnt might take place by the -adoption of 'tile. ricannmendation of the Hon: Menthe:l4 but. bg believed that the present system furnished a more effectual check upon the abuse of lbcal lipenditore,..bf committing its eontroul to men of , character , and 'affluente, than to such persons. as.would atand.ai contest at general pariehial elections. Mr:S. BOURNE said. it was unfortunate that alf the -arguments against particular Select Vestries should be found to apply to all, as these was no diciriction in their 'apPellition. The Select , Vastly Act. the 59tlt George 111. difeVed finiii that whirl previously 'listed in vs .iotts parts.' He was quite.sure that no objection would Ilse made to inquire • into' any particular instance pf al ifited-tabude oaf the Select-Vestry system; but he begged liinhaentlenien to beat iniirild that it would be impro- OPMP ,'},take cue Kennel rule for the patishes of the me. lopolisarid . gloat manufacturing towns,* and the country pisi.he., AIL amitaly dissimilar were their situations, wants. and ekcinedancess . . sIidt:CCOLBORNEIose, not to oppose the motion 'if; lus'.Honnurable .friend, but he was quite eobvinced that the Select Vestries*Of ,osauyof the parishes referred' si by•biai (Pancres'aniOritat others), could prove them. selves not Sedge to the . sweeping charges of his Hier fiend His Hun: Friend *impaled 'that all the mem " s of Select Vestties . ought to be appointed, but Ise(Sili. It. Colboritr) was . quite satisfied that it would JouncC That the greatest difficulty eras sometiftiti ea -I;llsienced in persuading respectable persons to under take that verwatemblesoine rind cinemas . office. His .flOrtourable ;Friend . had efinded to certain . alleged eti, W4ses=aparisi 'dinners, parish favoikitiew . and parish 4iiikati t oast . ,lnat•in case of universal suffrege;Who would .. hie the persontlikely to be elected ?k Notmen of respectable ','role- and ailliwoce, , bat 'the attorneys who might coat' ii . iiiiie trio Mich practice, and the 'tradesman whom isnis:-'. larience or pri4t if might 6e to iupply to the perish the articles in which- he dealt, and in that way would . the e‘f) be increa ed instead of There might i4si cluse.forinquity in some parishes , but he thought itiiard that others, not deserving it. should be included ie.theisbloquy 'aught to be thrown on the whole system. The, sell lay' not an the : system, but in- the watt of - p.•• . rOcier .applisatiork of in ..• • . • - :Mr. HUME Was ant' inclintd. to throw that blame on persons which belonged to the system. Unless parishes should have the potter to direct 1M investigation of their expenditure, and to reputes thosembo ahoeld be lotted to )m.l'OOBlE/properly, there could be. no good. re- 1 'Olt from Anfsystem whatever. He regretted to hear . (Kt *iglu Honourable Gentlemen (Mr: S. Bourne) fay that' she .system which had. 'so' well ascended in the divant' . litoTitices was. 110 t. apPlicabli to the MOM. palls« Wa s it intended to be said the the intelligent led av'ell iiifinited inhabitants of l a ericirm were not capableaf: Oink that.which'perionslesi t qualified to judge and mot tact done tv,ithAiebe6tial effect? There might (is theft. Hun. C;,eatlailiailtutil observed) be an indispOsifielr "al die part of eonreperions to performs parish dotreilV bat that mfghc be tracerkto the elevation. of those per'," dithouttheir colisehf. Hi was. of opinion that the In" ' 4l "idnals to?.Wbs o l l 4. the management of . the finds• of a parish was intrusted should ba moans elsiewd by these Who paid thirtatire ; and that Ilstiaecooots of she parioh expenditure might to bi.in l grcases s 'edited by others thin those with whosii the appointment to tasks the s • al ..11q • • Poi die I ebie bee -u soak 2 CT :.1w 4601 Ind t . 'bas Sp _ 1)a ~r~ Fo att t WI dig woe Co. , . U, so. aft i i a .:.w