Star. — London, England, 1830-05-15 00:00:00

as Parliament continued to make this allowance of 6,0001. the gross absurdities of Clerk of the Pipe, Clerk of the Nile, and King's Re membrancer would be retained, for Parliament by granting the money was sanctioning the abuse. (Hear, hear.) The wood tallies of the Exchequer which h a d been so often alluded to in that House. and which an Act was passed to put an end to at the expi ration of certain vested interests, were accordingly put an end to about six or seven months ago ; but the principle was still kept eq. for now instead of wood they had parchment tallies, so that but advantage was to be derived from the change--(hear, hear.) There was also out of this sum of 6,0001. an allowance of 171. 10s, to each of the Barons of the Exchequer, for stationery—a most petty thing, and which should be done away with, when it was considered what a liberal provision had been made by parliament for these func tionaries. He thought the house ought to call upon his Majesty's enbil.ters, to state why they paid so little attention to the report of their own commissioners, and why they left every abuse of tile ex chequer precisely as it was in the reign of Henry the Second. Mr. O. DAWSON admitted, that a great many amendments might be e ff ected in the exchequer, and several had already been sarried into execution, in accordance with the report of the commis. l @loners, to which the hon. member had alluded. The vote at m ean before the house had no reference whatever to the clerkship al luded to by the hon. member. With reopen to the sum appro priated for messengers, it was as reasonable as could be expected. Hen. members must be aware, that if their valets were sent on such messages, they would find it difficult to reconcile every shilling of their accounts, and such business as this could not be effected with proper expedition unless a liberal allowance was granted to the mes sengers. • Lord ALTHORP said, he felt disappointed that some change in this system had not taken place wading to the advice of the Fl. mance Committee. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, mach had been done in accordance with the report of the commissioners. Mr. HUME said, according to the returns it appeared that the vote, or a great part of it, was for the officers of the Exchequer. One portion of it was explicitly charged as paid to the Clerk of the Pipe. He thought the house would be perfectly warranted in refusing the vote, for the Court of Exchequer ought not to be suf fered to remain as it was for another year. Mr. BERRIES said, a change in the system would be effected as soon as possibly. Mr. GORDON, in reply, said he trusted he had succeeded in drawing the attention of the house to the subject, for it was now six years *Wes the report of the commissioners had recommended the abolition of the office of Clerk of the Pipe. Mr. HUME wished to ask, if a messenger had not been sent to the Duke of Buccleugh, to request that he would come to London so move the address ? If this was the way the messengers were em ployed, it was no wonder the charge for messengers was high. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that at this distance of thus it was impossible to say. Mr. P. THOMSON said, the expense of messengers to Paris twice a week was most extravagant, and the messengers not content with charging double, made also a trade of smuggling—The vote - vas then agreed to. The next vote was 950 L far Professors of the Universities of Ox 'GM and Cambridge, for lectures —Agreed to. The next vote was for the sum of 13,7781. for salaries of Com missioners, &c. of the Insolvent Debtors' Court. Mr. WARBURTON said, when we had so many commissions of bankrupts he could not see the necessity of voting such a sum for the Insolvent Court. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL defended the neceralty of main taining both the Insolvent Debtors' Court, and the Commissioners of Bankrupts, but the hon. gent. spoke in so low s tone as to be in audible. Mr. O'CONNELL said, that the business of the two courts was very different; but it was remarkable that in thesister kingdom young banisters, inexperienced, were generally appointed. He condemned the practice of appointing as Commissioners of Bankrupts prac tising banisters, for they pleaded before each other to the great de triment of the public. He had also known a fee of ten guineas paid tea young barrister ' who was a commissioner , to obtain his opinion one supposed case, and, after he had given that opinion, the real case has come before him the next day in his character of Commis sioner. He could see nothing to prevent the junction of the two courts; for, though different in practice, and though many people became botiltrupts, expressly with the intention that they should not thereafter be insolvent —yet there was that connexion between the objects of both, that a plan might easily be devised for their advantageous union. If no one else took up the subject, be should, next Session of Parliament, introduce a bill with that view. Mr. WARBURTON said he had • bill for the purpose of al. tering the constitution of this Court, which he hoped, before long, to have brought before the House. Sir M. W. RIDLEY said he thought an alteration might take place with goat economy, and with great advantage to the public. Mr. P. THOMSON said that mercantile men would prefer a composition of five shillings in the pound where the property was equal to ten, rather than make a bankrupt of the debtor, as by so doing they risked the loss of the whole in law expensea.—(Hcu). ----- - - - - Lord ALTHORP said he agreed with the Solicitor-General that the two Courts could not be united, for the Insolvent Commissioners bad to go circuit, a duty which was wholly incompatible with the duty of Commissioners of Bankrupts. Mr. BATLEY could not agree with this opinion, nor did he think that Commissioner, of Bankrupts should be suffered to prac. tiae, for, almost invariably, a great portion of their time was devoted to the bar, which ought to be devoted to their duties as Commis. stoners. Mr. SYKES complained of the existing system as inconvenient and expensive. Mr. J. WOOD thought that the present practice was perfectly ais r e flUME said, he thought the Bankrupt Court the greatest nuisance that could be inflicted on the kingdom ; and it was, there fore, lamentable to hear the Solicitor-General uphold its existence on the ground of its excellence and its utility. The expense of the Bankrupt Court was 260,0001. a year, a sum not to be equalled by the expenses of any Court in Europe. It was disgraceful of the Ministers and of the Law Officers of the Crown to permit the eels trace of such a Court for a single year. (Hear, hear.) Some of the Commissioners belnew were men of great ability, and were anxious to redress the abuses of the Court—who, be would ask, prevented it ? %S - ax it the Lord Chancellor ?—Perhaps so. Was it the hon. and learned gent. opposite (the Solicitor-General ?)-114 believed it was, or he would not have lauded It as he had done. (hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the hon. member for Aberdeen had altogether mistaken the argument of his hon. and learned friend (the Solicits-General), who only contended spinet the propriety of uniting both Courts. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said, be had no more controul over the bankrupt court than the hon. member for Aberdeen had himself. He was not disposed to retract any expression of appro- bation he had given to the commissioners. Mr. WAITIIMAN said the fault was not in the commissioners, but in the system. There could be no necessity for 74 commis 'loners, except to swell the patronage of the ministry. He had him self taken the opinion of a commissioner, who had told him that a man was amenable to the bankrupt law. The next day he was sur ptised to see him as counsel for this very man, contending for the opposite proposition before two other commissioners, In which be succeeded, and he (Alderman Waithman) lost thereby a debt of I,OOOL (A laugh.) This had given him such a distaste to the bankrupt court, that he would make any sacrifice rather than go there aw n. Mr. D. W. HARVEY said, that the principle of the Insolvent Debtors' Act was very imperfect. It appeared by the return of the provisional assignee, that he received fees to the extent of 16,600 a year out of the miserable assets of the people who passed through that Court. Mr. BRIGHT said, it was Incumbent on government and the law officers of the crown to Caitlin! :this Important sub ject, for the benefit of the public. The creditors of insolvents got 'nothing. There never was a system of laws that worked so much immorality as the bankrupt and insolvent laws of this cautery. He did not mean to say that the Commissioners of the Insolvent Court Here not respeetable men; he believed they pa. fanned dut y ; but the system was so vicious, that it must be emtkely . The Court of Commissioners of Bankrupts abounded w such evils as no commercial people should be af flicted with, and government should, without loss of time, set itself to provide a remedy. Mr. MONCL said, there should be a Bankrupt Court appointed with permanent Judges; not having the same persons Ju one da and practising Barristers the next. The Resolution ma agreed to. 4, 0341. was voted for the Allen Office. Oa the resolution that 11,1364 be granted for the Penitentiary at Milbank, Mr. HUME rose to make some observation, when— The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, to prevent deftly, be would withdraw the motion. On she resolution, that 60,8821. be opted for superannuation allowances to officers of public offices and departments, Mr. LENNARD said he thought the superannuation allowance was defective in principle. Time who had large salaries should lay wit a reeitina fee their old age; but those who had small salaries could not be expected tease. Sir NEWPORT macurred in this opinion. Mr. MABERLY said there were two heads of expense in the saperannua flan list whieb should not be allowed to enter it. One was the office of Commissioners in Scotland, and the other the linen Board of Ireton& They might as well call people out of the Meets to give supseanapatioo 'llama* in. Mi. DAWSON defended the gnat. The resdutlest nomad to. 13,6421. was granted for relief to Corsican emigrants and Dutch naval officers. 2,5001. was granted reedit support of the Vaccine Institution. The Resolution for granting 3,0001. for the Refuge foe the Desti tute, being opposed by Mr. Hums, was withdrawn. The House resumed. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that the House at its rising do adjourn to Monday..—Agreed to. EmOLusIEXTI Or Myr ColinclLLOas. Sir JAMES GRAHAM said he was sorry and surprised at the refusal of his Majesty's Ministers to grant the Return he was about to move for, nor could he imagine on what ground it was refused. The house, as the guardians of the public purse, had a right to de mand a return of what sums of money were received by any officers under the Crown.—(Hear.).-Such returns had been moved for and ordered by the house on former occasions, when the object was to show what members of the house received public money ; and he could not see why it should be refused when applied to Members of the Privy Council. The Privy Council was a body recognised by repeated statutes. In all communications with the Crown by the House, the address was presented by Members of the Privy Council. It was for the Chancellor of the Exchequer to 'hew why the Privy Council should be exempted from the general rules. He had told him (Sir James Graham) that there was a return moved for by the honourable member for Lincoln, which made his motion superfluous; but that motion was for a return of such officers as held two or more commissions. (Hear, bear.) There were amongst the Members of the Privy Council but thirty who held two or more offices ; and there were 113 who held office under the crown ; the former only would be returned on the motion of the honourable member for Lincoln. Ho had endeavoured to make out a return himself, from the best information he could. He knew the information asked for was of a delicate nature, and he should not read the return which he had collected with considerable difficulty from various sources, but would read to the house an analysis of the whole. The emoluments received by the members of the royal family had when granted been the subject of discussion in that house, and their amount was well known to the public; he should, therefore, omit any mention of their emolument. Besides the members of the Royal Family; there were 169 Privy Council. logs, 113 of whom received public mon e y t o t h e amount of 6601641, annually, being an average of upwards of 6,7301. for each. Of this sum 386,0001. was received for sinecures, 143,0001. for services, and 121,0001. in pensions. In the 113 who received salaries, pensions, or emoluments from the public money, there were 30 pluralists who held more than one office each, and whose receipts from the public amounted to 221,1331. being an aver. age of 7.3711. to each. (Hear, hear, hear.) Of the Privy Council 69 were Members of Parliament; of these 47 were peers, who received salaries, pensions, and emoluments, amounting annually to 387,8401. being an average of upwards of B,oool— Twenty-two were members of the house of commons, and received in the same way 90,8491. being an average of 4,1901. each. (Hear.) Besides the 69 Privy Councillors who were members of Parliament, 29 held offices or received emoluments in consequence of having held offices amounting to 126,171;1. being an average of 4,3541. to each person. This analysis was not probably perfectly accurate, but to the best of his hottest belief it was substantially cor rect. He was confident itapproximated to the truth. If the right hon. Gentleman opposite (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) should say this return was inaccurate, and at the same time refuse to produce an accurate return, he would say to him why not prove his assertion by the production of an accurate return, which was the only way the people of England could be satisfied.—(Hear). He thought it his duty to state another fact, founded on official documents, produced in compliance with the directions of that House, which she% ed the number of persons employed in public offices at different periods, and the amount of their salaries in 1827, and he would observe, that the price of wheat was then about the same as at present, the number of persons employed was 18,269 ; the amount of their salaries was 1,374,0001. In 1827, the number of persons employed was 22,912 ; their salaries amounted to 2,788,0001. (Hear.) It had been said, in reply to his observe. dons on this subject, on a former occasion, that up to 1812, the offi cers of customs had been principally paid by fees which were then abolished, and their salaries increased ; but it appeared by an an. swer published by Mr. Dee to the invaluable work of his hon. friend (Sir Henry Parnell) which was his text book, that the increase of salary which took place on that occasion, as compensation for the loss of fees, was but 40,0001. In 1810, the price of wheat was 105 s. now it was 665. There were then employed in the public of fices 22,931 persons whose salaries amounted to 2,822 0001. The salaries of ministers and other civil officers were raised expressly on account of the high price of provisions, and still continued at the same rate. (Hear, hear.) What was now the fact, as it applied to the unhappy country gentlemen ? They were obliged to receive half price, and pay the double annuity ; while ministers received the double annuity, and paid but half price. On a former night be spoke on this subject, without any intention of giving offence, but certainly with sincerity of heart ; for he never could consent to begin the work of reduction with subordinate clerks, and leave untouched the large salaries of those who had parliamentary interest, and many of whom had large properties of their own • this could never accord with his notions of justice.—(Hear, hear. ) Mr. Payne, a clerk in the Colonial Office, was superannuated as unfit for service, with an allowance of 7601. per annum, and at the same time made agent to Ceylon, an office of considerable emolument ; but he would not animadvert on this minor case, or others of a similar nature, when he saw Lord Cathcart receiving 23100 L a-year for a sin ecure in Scotland, being at the same time in possession of all his military employments and emoluments; and when he saw the Vice-Admiral opposite (Sir G. Cockburn) in the posses. don of his civil employment of a Lord of the Admiralty, of his full pay as Major-General of Marines, and also knew that by a special warrant in his favour he bad received half pay for three years, amounting to 3,oooL—(Harr, hear.)--He would read to the house the oath administered to every lieutenant before he could re. =be his half-pay, by which the house would see how strictly any accumulation of income was guarded against in the case of inferior officers. The honourable Baronet here read the oath, stating that the person is not in holy orders, and has not any other pay, half pay, or emolument of any kind t why should there be an exception made to this rule in favour of the Vice-Admiral ?—(Hesr, hear.)--- He should not now complain of the salary of the Vice-President of the Board of Trade, when he found that the First Lord of the Ad. miralty had 6,0001. sad a sinecure office in Scotland of 3,1001. The heads of the Boards of Excise and Customs had their salaries raised in consequence of high and they continued at the same rate; but he thought it would be unjust to direct an attack against their salaries, while Lord Melville's and Lord Rosslyn's emoluments re mained unreduced. The latter, besides his office of Lord Privy Seal, and likewise his military appointments, had also lucrative sinecures In Scotland.—(Hear, hear.) It might, perhaps, be said, in answer to his motion, that it was merely made to gratify curl. osity, and could not lead to any beneficial result. (Hear, hear.) He would not conceal the objects he had in view in moving for the in formation be sought to obtain. His first object was to contrast the sums paid with the services that if there were room for a reduction of expense, wha f ;te m t e htight there was, it might be I lmade.--(bear, hear.) His second object mulct ascertain the sense l' of the house on the point, whether the rule now applied to half. pay, vb. that it should be suspended during the time of receiving any salary, should not be applied to full-pay.--(hear, near.) His third object was to ascertain whether, when ministers returned to of fice, the salaries of the sinecure offices they had received as retired allowances should not abate. These were the grounds on which he made the motion, and the objects he had in view ; and, tithe return was granted, he hoped the house would not think these objections unworthy of notice. He would now shortly advert to the subject of superannuation'. One would think from their being allowed to continue in the same state, that the subject had never been investigated by a committee ; but it had been gravely examined by the Finance Committee, who stated the alarming fact, that the non.effective superannuation' amounted to 484,0001. the effec tive to 4,300,0001. The committee came to an unanimous resolution that no halt-pay should be held with full pay t this resolution Was acted on towards the weak, but was forgotten in the case of the powerfuL (bear,) The finance committee also recommended that military and naval officen,when employed in civil offices, should only receive the salaries of those offices; but this recommendation was also disregarded. The committee also recommended that the regu lations of 1822, for forming a superannuation fund, by a deduction from salary. should be acted upon. The defence of government was, that they acted on the recommendation of the committee, but the house would not agree to It. The Chancellor of the Exchequer brought forward the second reading of the bill late in July, when it was opposed by the supporters of the ministers, and two others who had left office about five weeks. The Chancellor of the Exchequer then said that the salaries had been left larger than was absolutely necessary to enable the individuals to provide for their own superan nuation, but the alternative was never acted on ; and though they did not provide, the salaries were allowed to remain the same. The Chan. cella of the Exchequer said, be had strenuously supported the recom. mendadon ; but instead of that, be expressed his great regret at being obliged to propose it, and gave itup without a Ifgovernment would support him, humble member as he was, he would undertake to carry that repudiated measure through the house. The hon. baronet =included by calling the attention of the house to what fell from Lord Londonderry in almost the last speech be uttered in the house. When sparking of the salaries of public functionaries, be observed, that if them were to be viewed and treated as vested rights, there would be an end to all legislation; and were such an idea entertained and brought forward, It 'mild instantly be scouted. (Hear.) These words ought to be borne in the rend. laden of his majesty's ministers on the present occisloo, and he gusted that they would be attended to and 'acted . upon that i n= The time had arrived when the state of the country de. the strictest scrutiny in the administration of the sake Of govwpassar, aad he should now call up on his majeety'embistere to fulfil Oat deemed. Let his majesty a ministers da this; -and he pledged himself to Wag forward plans of retreathmeet, that would answer all the purposes intended ; let them grant these returns, and, by so doing, keep faith with the people of the country—(Cheers.) The bon. baronet then moved, that an humble address be presented to his majesty, that there be laid before this hones an "account of all salaries, profits, pay, fees, and emoluments., whether civil or military, from the Bth of January, 1821, to the loth of January, 1830, held and enjoyed by each of the members of his majesty's most honourable privy council, specifying, with each name, the total amount received by each individual, and distinguishing the various sources from which the same is derived." The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that if he meant to oppose any general reduction, or abatement of full and half-pay, or if he intended to oppose the principle of the honoura ble Baronet's motion, he might have risen with greater diffidence than he othetwise did ; he appealed to the honourable Baronet, and to the house, that such never did appear to be his intention ; he should not only grant one return, but he should grant more,— (hear)--and give the honourable Baronet every means of scum plishing the objects he had in view. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequee) did not object to the returns, but as to the form in which they were sought to be obtained.—(Hear, hear.)—On a former occasion the honourable Baronet was told that the papers he required were all ready, and would be placed on the table of the house. What did the hon. baronet then say ? why, that the returns that were then offered were too voluminous, that they would embrace a variety of information undoubtedly, but would not touch the points whickhe had in view ; but the hon. baronet was told still further that there was no member whatever of his Majesty's government, whose of ceand emolument should not be fairly stated. He should tell the hon. hart. now, as he did on a former oces.tion, that there was no precedent on record for stating the emoluments of the members of his Majesty's Privy Council. They were :appointed by his Markt,. ty, and did not come under the denomination of the public officers of the Government ; they might be persons holding other offices, and deriving emolument to a large amount, but it sp. to him (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) as invidious to ring them forward as Privy Councillors. Such a proceeding would be holding them up to obloquy, not because they received the public money, but because they held an office of high dignity, and apart from every other ; but the hon. hart. has not confined himself to the objects of his motion, he has travelled into a wider field, and thought proper to discuss the conduct of Government re lative to matters which had recently taken place; he (the Chan. cellor of the Exchequer) alluded to the question of superannuation la:ely before the house. The honourable baronet had not only blamed Government, but had charged others with having acted wrong on that question. When he (the Chancellor of the Ex chequer) was taxed with indifference to that question, he should at once deny the justice of such a charge ; but he begged to assure the hon. ban. that there was a treasury minute, which caused certain reductions in the salaries of public officers, for the purpose of providing for the superanuation fund. Let the honourable baronet and the house look to what he (the Chancellor of the Exche quer) had done and it would be found that there was, at least, some disposition on his part to follow up reduction.—(hear, hear, hear.) The sam e spirit was shewn by the Secretary for the Co. lonies, as well as by the Master of the Mint. He had also been charged with having placed ex-ministers on the superannuation committee, with a view -o their support. Had the hon. baronet so little parliamentary experience as not to knew that ex-ministers were the last that would follow up the plans of their successors by supporting them. Atter the fatigue of the evening lie should not enter much into detail, more especially as the hon. baronet had said that on another occasion he should have further opportunities of himself going into details. He must, however, be allowed to ob. 'MC, with respect to Lord Cathcart, that that nobleman's family were in the receipt, no doubt, of a large amount, but it was for great services rendered to the country; and the government never intended to keep back these pensions. The same remark also applied to other noble families. He begged the honourable baronet to bear in mind the characters of many of these families, which had been characterized as birds of prey. These individuals did not hold their pensions from any culpability of his majesty's present government. It was the practice of former governments to bestow them upon the meritorious servants of the crown, not that the individuals them. selves might be provided for, but that their families might not become destitute. What the individuals now received was not for their services, but those of their predecessors who had earned it for them. lle should not trouble the house further, but simply move u an amendment to the motion of the honourable baronet that an humble address be presented to his majesty, praying that there may be laid before the house an account of all the Wades, pay, fees, and emoluments of the officers of the crown both civil and military, from the sth of Jan. 1829 to the sth of Jan. 1830, the total 112110 UM of each of which shall exceed 2,0001. per annum. The right hon. gentleman sat down by stating that he was of opinion that the amendment he had brought forward would meet all the ends which the hoc. baronet had in view. The gallery was then ordered to be cleared for a division. On our again entering the house we found that none bad taken place, and Lord MILTON on his legs, supporting the motion of the hon. Baronet. The salaries and emoluments of the Privy C ouncillors, as well es every other O ffi cer of State. ought to be laid before the house. Privy Councillors were judicial officers of the first import ance, not only to this country, but to foreign pans, and the House of Commons ought not to be told that it was not to itterfere with their emoluments. He trusted that the gallant Baronet who sat op. ite, who filled the office of one of the Lords of the Admiralty r G. Cockburn), would meet the charges that had been brought forward against his department; he trusted he (Sir G. Cockburn) would be able to refine them entirely • be also trusted that the eco. nomy of the present Government would not strip the indigent, and leave the rich to wallow in their riches.--(Quadon, question.) Sir G. COCKBURN would not have risen on the present occa sion, as he thought It would have been time enough when the re. turns offered by the Chancellor of the Exchequer were on the table of the house. As far as regarded his own cue individually, he felt no sort of hesitation in stating the utmost extent of eniolument which he enjoyed. (Hear, hear.) The salary of the first lord of the admiralty was 1,50 0 1. per annum--the others received 1,0001. He himself received the former cum, in addition to half pay; it pleased his Majesty also, in consideration of his services, to grant him the commission of major-general; and he confessed that he enjoyed the highest situation that he could by possibility get in his profession. H. also held the rank of major-general of the marines. He was obliged to reside constantly in London • and he could safely assert, putting all his emoluments together, ;hat he did not receive so much even as the Secretary of the Treasury, namely, 2,5001. a year. He could assure the house, go out of °thee when he might, he should go out a loser— and that there were other officers of the Crown receiving five times, nay ten times, the amount of his allowance. He received the rank of Major-General of Marines in consideration of past services and he could tell hon. members, that if be did not deserve it, be should bow to their opinion. Mr. HUMS thought that the Chancellor of the Exchequer could not be sincere when he said that the returns he offered would answer all the ends of the hon. baronet ; these returns would only give half the information required ; he should vote for the motion of his ho. nourable friend. Sir J. YORKE said that:the boo. bart.'s motion did him great credit, and he should vote for it. Mr. E. DAVENPORT, amid cries of " Question, question." said that the returns required were of so voluminous a character, that they could oot be prepared before the expiry of three months, by which dmehonourable members would have politically ceased to exist. Sir H. HARDINGE vindicated the character of Mr. Brown, of the Colonial Seartarrs Office, who was one of the individuals who had been alluded to by the hon. beet. Lord ALTHORP contended that the ministers would act very unwisely were they to withhould the desired information. Mr. HUSKISSON agreed with the noble lord who had just sat down ; it was necessary to show publicly and openly, what were the receipts of the Privy Councillors, and maintain no mystery on the subject; for his own pan, he had no wish to conceal any emo- lument of which he was in the receipt ; he deprecated above all things the appeuancs of mystery, and that it should go forth to the world, and forth it would go, that there was any truth in the impu tations brought forward. Dlr. PORTMAN hoped the right boo. the Chancellor of the Exchequer would not press his amendment to a division. Mr. W. SMITH opposed the motion. (The boo. gentleman continued to address the house amid the greatese.possible confusion, so as to be rendered wholly inaudible in the gallery.) Sir JAMES GRAHAM, in reply, observed, be had beard with pain and sorrow that the bon. gent. (Mr. Smith) opposed his motion the more especially when he (Sir I. Graham) considered that the bon. member had been the associate of Mr. Fox, and one of the oldest members of the opposition in the house. As to faction to which allusion had been made, be could Imagine a state of things when ex-ministers might have some sympathy with the existing administration; but about three yews ago they had seen like a factious opposition, and be would ask the Aucener= whether it was not an opposition that rent the pond heart, and shortened the life, of the then Prism Minister T--(Clisers.) General GROSVENOR opposed the motion, amidst loud cries of " Question." The gallery was then cleared for a division. The numbers were— For the Motion .. Aplost it Ma*ity against the Mona; Most of theordars of the day wae, on air re.admission into the gallery C postponed till Monday. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER afterwards moored fora aka committee on the Acts relating to the growth and add. vadat of tobacco in the united Madigan. pu The nned at Two o nsosining Ord Ord ers having hien disposed of, the House ad. 'Clsek till Monday. FRANCE AND ITS GOVERNMENT. (Continued /rout Yesterday's STA■.) From the Reprhentant. MINISTRY OF JUSTICE. The Ministry of Justice has charge of overlooking all the Courts of Law within the country. It presents to the King the candidates for all vacant places and all pro. motions ; and countersigns their orders of nomination. The individuals employed in the offices of this ministry, are at least The administration of justice in France consists of the fol. lowing gradations. The lowest jurisdiction is that of Justice of the Peace. There is a Justice of the Peace in every canton, and every Justice of the Peace has a notary. The number of individuals thus in employ. ment, in all France, is . . In every arrondissement there is a Court of first reser!, consisting of a President, King's Proctor, one or two Deputy Proctors, three. five, or seven Judges, according to the population of the place, two, three, or four, Judger of Audit, and a notary. Taking at seven the average number of individuals in one of the Courts, the number will be For each department there is a Criminal Court, consisting of a President, six Judges, a King's Proctor, two De. puty Proctors, and a notary. The individuals in these Coutts therefore are . The higher Courts, to which an appeal lies from the Courts of first resort, are called Courts Royal. Of these there are twenty-seven. tads of them is divided into two, three, four, or five Ckartelsers, according to the ex tent of population within the limits of the Court. Each of these Chambers has its President, and eight Members of Council. One President in Chief takes his seat when all the Chambers are assembled together. A Proctor. General, with an Advocate-General and two or three Deputy-Advocutes.General foe each Chamber, appear on the part of the Minister of the Interior in these Courts. Lest of all, comes the Notary-in-Chief, and his As sistant. Taking thirty for the average number of mem beta in each of these Courts, there will be The Court of Appeal decides on all appeals from the Cri minal Courts nr the Courts-Royal ; but it does not un dertake to judge of the facts, and only looks to the pro priety or impropriety of the way in which the law is applied. This Court is divided into three sections; the criminal, the civil, and that of repasts, by which are meant matters at issue between the Government and private individuals, or between one department of the Government and another. The First President, the President, the Members of Council, the Proctor-Ge neral, the Deputy-Proctors-General, the Advocates-Ge. neral, the Notaries, &c. &c. carry the number of Jodi viduals in this Court to ... ......... . The Ministers of State, the Privy Councillors, and the Councillors of State, or Masters of Requests, are to the number of .. . Nobody can practise as an Advocate in the councils or the Court of Appeal, but by an order from the King, nun. tersigoed by the Minister. The number of these Advo. cats is just now, about It is the same with the practising Proctors or Barristers, in all the courts of law In the kingdom. Of these the number is at least. 5,670 2,5 4 I 10,000. lt is the same with the (hwissfers) Amnia, is aU die Courts, and before the Justices of the Pea5e..... .. Lastly, it is the same with the Notaries ; of whom the number is atleast The Gaolers and Governors of the different pri50n5........ Total of all the persons in the service of, or dependent on, the Ministry of Justice MINISTRY OF THE AFFAIRS OF THK CHURCH, AND OF PUBLIC EDUCATION. When the shocking state of health of Louis XVIII had enfeebled his character and his understanding, and he had allowed the ministry since known by the name of the Villele ministry to be forced upon him by his brother,—the party of the Priests, for whose use and benefit this change of ministry had taken place, being well aware that unless they could make themselves mas ters of the rising generation, a few years would see tho end of their power in the country, asked for and got possession of public education, which was made into a dependency of a Bishop-Minister, the Abbi Fressinuus. These two departments (affairs of the church, and public education) were separated under the last ministry. M. de Polignac has brought them together again, and it is a man of the name of Gnernon Renville, a person who was never heard of before, that has been appointed Di rector. It would appear that as regards the appointment of individuals to ecclesiastical offices—that is to say for the nomination of Bishops, Vicars-General, Canons, &c.— the functions of the Director are confined to being the executor of the will and pleasure of the Grand Almoner. of M. de Latil, the Abbe Tharin, and other personage of that class, who exercise a leading influence over the conscience of the King. In the cases of Archbishops and Bishops, be has only to put the countersign, afte: the Pone has had the civility to give his approbation to the King's choice. As to most of the other offices, the Archbishops and Bishops, who are great lovers of liberty in what concerns themselves, save him the trouble of having any thing to do with them ; his business as Mi nister of the Clergy, being to lay his claws on thb ecclesiastical budget, and see to its distribution. Here will be given a hasty sketch of the numerical strength of the clergy in France. CeoW administration (in the offices of the Minister in Paris) Archbishops.. Bishops, not including the Bishops in portions (nominal Bishops, as Bishops of Jerusalem &c.) nun General 1 66 203 Calms .. Batton (at least one to each cart0n)......... 3,000 Vine. l.BOO Country Parish Priests Priests attached to parishes in towns, without distinct titles t and Almoners totegiments nod hospitals. 2,000 Is the Seminaries (places of eduadon under the direc tion of the Priests), Directors, Professors, and candidates far Orders; including what are called the small Semi naries 9,000 . _ _ Monks, Capuchins, Trappings, &e. &t. kept on foot and paid under the rose • • •• • . 1,300 Total PUBLIC EDUCATION. Education in gent;ralislic France in a state of ab solute dependence on the government. No person in France can set up an establishment for education, untd the Ministry by its immediate act, in the case of estab lishments for classical learning, and by its agents and through the Prefects, Sub-Prefects, Bishops and Rectors for the smaller ones, has given a licence in the shape of a diploma, may oma , cuse. which h it can withdraw at any time afterwards that The central machine for the direction of the publie education for the whole of France, takes the name of University Royal; and the University is divided into Academies, to the number of twenty-seven. The Mi nister himself takes the title of Grand Master of the University ; and the heads of the several divisions called Academies, are styled Rectors. Their office is to give licences, and to watch over the proceedings of all the schools and teachers, in the departments within the limiu of their Academy. The different steps of the system of teaching in From are arranged as follows :—The first series of instruction , which consists in learning to read, write, and cast account.' is given in what are called primary or commune-scbcols. The secondary schools or commune-colleges are the esta blishments founded either by the communes or by in dividuals, for teaching Latin, Greek, and the elements of Mathematics, Algebra as far as equations of the se cond class, and Geometry. Lastly, the Colleges-Royal. which in the time of the Empire went by the name of Ly ceums, are established by the Government in the principal cities of France. To the instruction in Loa I I 13 • • IMIL.