Star. — London, England, 1826-02-14 00:00:00

objeceon, by ascribing the existing dist ens to Mies with which *e do not at present affect to meddle. The second objection is founded on an exaggerated view of the evil, bearing little or nothing on the resolution, to the consideration 'of which the Hodse ought to con fine itself this night. The cante of the distress has been well des gi bed by many, and by none better than by the am: Member for Northampton. He described it on ti former flight so accurately that he brought com pletely home to the feelings of the House the true nature of the source of those embarrassments now so severely felt,which he proved to be that extravagant spirit of spe culation which had lately prevailed. Why, Sir, whoa his Majesty said in his speech to his Parliament, that some of the evils complained of were beyond the reach of Parliamentary interposition, what could the Sove seign mean t., allude to but such injuriouseepeculazions ? These had been, I will not say such as were never seen More, bdt such as could not be witnessed without astonishment for their number and for the eagerness with which they were received. It was net possible fro Parliament to deal with all that speculation which for a time filled the public gaze, grew out of public avidi.y, and was fostered by public appetency to a degree which, undoubtedly, exposed us to the ridicule of all other people—speculations which sprang with the dawn and disappeared before the sun went dawn, like a vapour that r ,se towards Ileaysn, and that the puncture of a pin brought again to the earth—Parlia ment could not deal with all those speculations which sprang from human avarice and enterprise, and in at tempting it, would do more harm than good, might' check enterprise, and not repel that inordinate appetite for gain, which could only be corrected by experience. Though I do not charge the country banks with having originated this spirit, I think it not too much to say thin the animus was sustained by their means. But the measure which his Majesty's Ministers now propose to the House, is one which they feel themselves justified in recommending on it; own merits. Though founded on recent transactions, it is not intended to apply to these alone, but, for itself, it is pressed on Parliament, to cor rect a faulty part of our currency. Recent events have furnished a fa% ourable opportunity for supplying a remedy, and this opportunity once lost, it may be long before we shall have such another. Sir, besides the disclaimer with which I set out, I have another to offer, I allude to the fashion set by an Hen. Member opposite, on a former night, and followed by the worthy Alder man this evening; of attacking those who wish, on phitoriphical principles, to reform our curreney, by fixing on them the character of visionaries and en thusiasts, and representing them, as such, to be pre pared to resign the greatest benefits, and to sacrifice the cures: interests of communities, in order to give effect to their own theories. The Hon. Member for Taunton. in his speech, the ingenuity of which I admit, but whikb was, I think, one of the most inaccurate in facts, and unfair in reference, that I ever heard in this House, has endeavoured to fix on me this character. I have no right to complain that an Hon. Gentleman, in the heat of debate, should ascribe to me a part which I never took ; and if I see it results from an error of the moment, and no unjust inference be drawn, I rest quite satisfied With denying the fact. But when 1 find that out of this error an inference is to be drawn—when I find it is sai that I, in 1810, in the Bullion Committee, voted for the resdnirtion of cash payments, and when 1 find this boted,and more than thaton appeal founded on it, and the 11 'use solemnly warned to beware how they followed a blind guide, who, having before wandered, would now be likely to lead them astr.iy —to pre cipitate them Lorin the rock of paper into the boiled less sea of a metallic currency —(llear,-hear)—when 1 say, I hear myself thus misrepresented, and "mess such an appeal, made to influence the votes rf the House, will riot say that the error was other than usontentional,but I must remark, that an error,more fortunate for the argument of the Hon. Member using it, never occurred in Parliament. I not. only did not vote, as I am said to have done, in the Bullion Com mittee in 1810, but— Mr. BARING spoke to order. He bad apologised for the error into which he had fallen, yet the Right Hon. Gentleman now treated it as intentional—(No, no).—He appealed to the House for the correctness of what he stated. Mr. Secretary CANTIDIG..•••••The argument which the Hon. Gen tleman would draw from the error into which he bad fallen:is that to which I would direct the attention of the House. Mr. BAIUNG denied any wish that the supposed inference shoal be drawn from what he had advanced. He had apologised for er reneously stating the Right Hon. Gentleman to have voted as he believed him to have done. After this be bad a right to com plain that the Right Hon. Gentleman should suite the error to have been intentionally nude. (Cries of No, no, snointeationaity.") Mr. Secretary CANNING—I spoke of the error as not being intentional. Sir, the part I did take in 1810, I think it necessary to state, in order to set myself right with the House. I voted for all the Resolutions moved by the late Mr. Horner, which went to affirm the prin ciples on which our mosetary system is founded, and against those which had for their object to throw open the Bank on the next day. My argument, whether it were good ler any thing or not, went to call on the Committee to pronounce in favour of our monetary system. I thought great good would result from pro nouncing a sound opinion on that subject, but because I did so, Iby no means agreed with t he conclusion come to by the Bullion Committee, namely, that thel existing system being wrong, it ought therefore to be immediately—in the middle of a war—abandoned,and the Bank ordered to resume cash payments at a par ticular and specified period. The only proposition which I submitted to that Committee was no theoretical one, but a practical one ; it • was this, that during the continuance of the suspension of cash payments, the Bank should neither increase its capital nor itsdividends. This was at least a practical proposition. To try think ing, it was the very reverse of a theoretical one. Now if, on the present occasion, I propose to withdraw-within a limited period the one pound notes from circulation, I do not see that this is a theoretical, but I contend, that it is a practical proposition. It is founded on the experience of years which have elapsed since the Bullion Committee sat, and which . have proved that the dr colatinn of small notes cannot exist with a metallic tiler:icy. I, like the worthy Alderman, am for treading .rk the steps of our forefathers, and, doing this, I cos tend that no par t of their policy is more strongly marked than was that for which I am new the advocate, in the tears preceding 1797. Look to the first period of our, commercial distress in modern times—l mean in 1793. What was the language held by Mr. Burke —no mean authority on this subject ? Mr. Burke, In describing the paper system of the French Republic, contrasted with it the circulation of this country —4s They think," he observed, e that our pro les ny rose out of our paper ; but the paper ruse out of ' 4l prosperity. They thought that the paper derived its valet from authority; but it was from its possessing la authority that it derived its value. Bank notes might cn— cAt st LC Ind' bat U" :ens . . ' ,be refused. Mr. Berke Concluded, 14 Never had a. scarcity of cash and a toperabentlance of paper been IN 'Close of complaint." Such was the state of the paper currency in England in 1793.. This was the good old stem to which I am as anxious to retu r n as the Wo r thy derman can be. Now, Sir, what are the impedi ments in the way of our doing so? The Honour. able Member for Taunton has stated some of them.--• 'The Hon. Gentleman has stated the Bank to be so blocked up by its engagements with the Government, that it is no longer a fit agent for the circulation of our currency, and he has stated the items by which this is caused in the fallowing way :—ln the first instance, there was a permanent charge for Exchequer Bills of 6,000 0001. Then the H m. Gentleman stated there was what he called deficiency bills amountin g to 7,009,0001. which arose from advances made byte Bank for the j current quarter, which, however, in oint of fact, amounted to but 3,500,0001. Their amount might be what the Hon. G .ntlernan stated on the day to which he alleded, but I can state that it was very speedily di minished. For the dead weight 8,000,0001. Paying off the four per cents. 2,000,0001. The sums had beets advanced on mortgage to the amount of 1,500,00 W. Altogether 24,500,0001. The tendency of the speech of the H 'n. Gentleman was to thew, that the Govern ment, by imposing a heavy load on the Bank, his refl• deied it incapable of properly exercising its functi.nts To take the Hon. Gentleman's items in the inverse order of their introduction, I will first notice the sums lent on mortgage. These are said to amount to one million five hundred thousand potinds, but these the Government has no more concern with than the Hon. Gentleman can have. The Bank - thought fit (and Ido not blame them for so thinking) to lend money on mortgages. They had thought this would prove a public benefit, and produce a profit for the proprietors. They accordingly thus advanced the sum of 1,200,0001. Whether this advance was right or wrong was no busi ness of the Government. The Bank engaged in those transactions in their mercantile character, and the Government was not in the smallest degree re sponsible for them. Then as to the dead weight.— Whether the bargain made was wise or foolish on the part of the Government, or on that of the Bank, has nothing at all to do with the present question. That which was done was this—the Government sold an annuity; which the Bank sought. This the Bank did in their mercantile character. Now, having bought it, the Bank might go into the market and sell it the next, day. Whether they did this or not, the Government ate no more responsible for what has been done, than it would have been for the decision of the Honourable Gentleman, if, when he contracted for a loan, it had been his pleasure - to keep it. The wise taker of a loan, holds it till it goes to a premium, and then sells it, But whe ther the Bank did so or not, is here of no consequence. That they had the power of selling the annuity which they bought of the Government is sufficient to overthrew the argument of the Honourable Gentleman—that by their being compelled to hold it, the B ink was rendered incapable of a proper discharge of its functions. Thus I have disposed of 6,700,0001. out of the 24,500,0001. which the Honourable Gentleman has stated the Bank to have been burdened with. The next item is one of 3,7(0,000/. for paying off the four and five per cent. dissentients. This sum certainly appears as having been advanced by the Bank, but then it ought to be borne in mind that it is in a regular course of pay ment, at the rate of seven hundred and fifty thousand pounds varterly, or 3,000,00041. per annum, so that the whole will be done away in the course of the present year. There then remain two items, those for the permanent Exchequer Bills and the Deficiency Bills, as they are called. It is not (air because the Bank made advances on a certain 44y, to a given amount, on account of the current revenue, on such grounds to assume that a sum to that amount was locked up for the whole quarter. The sums to be received in the course of the remainder of the quarter ought to be taken into the ac count. To an individual like myself, not very con versant with such matters, the state of the case may be best explained by supposing a parallel case in private life. 1 will suppose that a Nobleman or Gentleman of gieat landed property has to pay ten thousand pounds in the year by four quarterly payments. Suppose then such an individual should sly to his banker, 4, I will a ssign to you my rents and other income, amounting to more than sufficient to cover the charge which is to be met, but take you all the trouble off my hands. Make my quarterly payments for me, take the rents and account (or them, but mind, if ever you should advance more than you have received, charge interest for the same. If, however, the rents received exceed what you have to pay,- I ask•no interest on the surplus in your heads." I ask, is such a case would not the banker have a good com mission ? Would be not be wrong to eomplain of being ont of pocket for a quarter of a year, by those sums advanced which were repaid to him in six weeks, while interest was paid on his advances, none being required on the surplus which he might at any time hold. The fact is, the Bank is the banker of the Government, and the Government deals with the Bank as the Nobleman or Gentleman would with his banker in the case which 1 have supposed. This is the system, Sir, and how does it work ? 1 will shew the House. On the sth of January, 1824, the sums advanced by the Bank for the public service amounted to 1,540,0001. all of which was cleared off in the course of the quarter. On the sth of April, 1824, the sum of 169;0001. had been advanced by the Bank. This, Sir, was cleared off by the 28th of May. During the remainder of that quarter, to the sth July, the Bank was in possession of Government De. bentures, with which it was at liberty to deal as seemed teit, paying no interest on them. On the sth Jul y,in I cl:7: l ame year,theadvancesagain amounted t 01,600,0001. This was cleared off by the 3d of September following, and from that time to the 10th of October the Bank was in the receipt of money belonging to the public.— On the 10th October their advances to the public amounted to 1 1 400,0001. which was cleared off as the former had beers bythe 10th December,and thus a sur plus was in their possession, till the close of the quarter. On the sth January, in the present year, the Bank bad made advances for the public service to the extent of 5,50),00 . 1. and up to this day, I fine that that sum has been teductd to 2,500,0001. and is in the course of daily re. duction. Thus then it will be seen that the Bank sustains no injury, but on the contrary, receives a benefit from ' the Government. Its operations are aided instead of being impeded, and if the business which it manages for the public could be withdrawn and carried elsewhere, the. Bank would lose instead of being a gainer by the change. I am surprised that it should, be forgotten, that in the Report of the Bullion Commitee of 1810, and again in that of 1819, there was a recommendation that the advances made to the Government by the Bank, should never .be stated, without being accom panied with an account of the balances of the public money liedstlnidg in the heeds of the tianL, Mkt "that' were the aterages of the same. Those averages hive amounted to ?,000,0001. so here aAain . is an aid afford ed to the Bank, insteed of an impediment being thrown in its way. Why, then, it, will be seen, that, going item by item through this load of 24,00,000/. said to have been thrown on the Bank, I have explained all away, till nothing remains but the six or sever, millions of Exchequer ills which the Bank holds.— I am sure the Hon. GeAdeman cannot charge the sum advanced to th'e Government from the Bank, on its institution, as that which is to be complained of as an impediment. That advance, coeval with the Bank, has been considered as one of the cond'tions of its exist- ence. When the balance is to be struck, it must not be left out of our consideration, that if the Bank divide eight per cent. on a capital of 14 millions, instead of seven per cent. upon a capital of 12,0001. under what' circumstances their capital has been accruing, and the series of bonuses shared among the proprietors in the years during which cash payments were suspended.— Nothing then has been proved to shew that the Bank has been rendered unfit to exercise the functions of a Bank. Sorry should Ibe if such a case could be made Loot, for if the Ho,. Gentleman would fain suggest a measure, which might offer temporary relief, he must, be aware that the Bank is the only instrument by m •ans of which his object can be effected. It would therefore be in my judgment the greatest imaginable misfortune , for the country, if that body were not_ in full possession' of all the efficiency and power whichought to belonk to such an establ shment. At present, so far a; the Government is concerned, the affairs of the Bank are more disembarrassed than they were in any of those years to which retro,p action can be carried. Such beings ,the case, what is the danger to be• apprehended from: dolling as we propose to deal with the country banks? It, was admitted, that it was cl , fEcult to get at the exact" amount of their issues of small notes. But it wasq thought we approximate to it when we take them at. 6,000,0001. So me name 4,000,0004 and be it 6,000,0001.1 sr be it 4,000,0001. it is proposed that these at the eadl l of three years shall be withdrawn from circulatioef. This is the effect of my Right Hon. Friend's proposition.' There are, we are told, 800 country banks in England. Perhaps recent unfortunate events may have reduced, them to about 700. Divide between these the number of small notes supposed to be in circulation, and at the most it will net,give an average of more than 8,0091. for each. These 8,0001. then are to be withdrawn in three, years, that is to say, a sum of more than 2,0001. and noel so much as 3,0001. annually. Now, after all we have heard, and.truly, I admit, of the unquestionable soli , dity of the country banks, are we are told that to with.l draw such an amount in small notes, in the time which hatbeen named—that this calling in of from 2 to 3,0001. per annum, would produce such a strain upon them that the law could not be satisfied without plunging the country into new confusion and general distress. Quite sure I am that when the proposition of the Hon. Gentleman is reduced to its proper dimensions and guaged by arithmetic, no feeling will remain, but that of astonishment that it could ever have been swelled by ingenuity to an argument of such magnitude. This alteration, Sir, though small in its effects, will be mighty in principle. if we can by its means restore to the 1 country the fixed principle of a metallic currency, I say that we shall have achieved a mighty good, and, conquered an incalculabe and a growing evil., I will, with the permission of the House, quote a sentence from a letter which was addressed to me by Mr. Burke, at a time when a subject 'nearly similar to that which now occupies our attention was the subject of discussion.— I came into Parliament two years after that gre a and illustrious man quitted it for ever, but I lad die honosir of some intimacy with him in private life, and shortly previous to his lamented death; and while he was upon that bed of sickness from which he never rose, he ad dressed to me the letter to which I have alluded, and which I have preserved as a relic of departed greatness. The concluding sentence of this letter conta ns these remarkable words—words which I wish to impress upon the minds of those who hear me, as they conic from a man whose opinions are entitled to respect, and who, upon more than one occasion, proved himself a true prophet. The words are these—" Tell Wiliam Pitt, that if be ever issues one-pound notes he will never see a guinea again." Has not the event borne him out in the assertion ? At the time of the Bullion Question, did not the famous resolution of my Honourable Friend, a resolution of which he is the godfather, and, therefore, answerable for all its sins --(A laugh)— hedge in the one pound note with a divinity which rendered it nearly unapproachable. Although I do not mean to deny that that Resolution was founded upon sound argument, and that there were obvious reasons for passing it, still it has been productive of an obscure notion, prevalent amongst many even of the enlightened classes, that a one pound note was not necessarily convertible on demand into gold. The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Attwood) has asked "whether his Majesty's Ministers have not repented the declaration which they made last year relative to the restriction of payment upon the part of the Bank. I answer for myself and my colleagues—not for one moment.— It is alleged in some respectable quarters, that the change from notes to gold will be universally felt through every part of England. This has no foundation in fact. When it was last year proposed, that one pound notes should be circulated in Manchester a Meeting was called, with the Boroughreeve in the Chair, at which the parties entered their protest against any such circulating medium, and declared, that the business and ordinary avocations of life could not go on with security, if such a circulation were introduced.— Experience had fully shown that it was absolutely ne cessary, for the safety and welfare of the country, that these small notes should be gradually and progressively withdrawn, in order to replace them by a sound me tallic currency. This might be done without trench ing in the least upon the issuing of paper of a larger size. Pile up your Bills of Exchange, and rather de ecriptions of paper, mountains high, but let the bases of these mountains be irrigated with gold. Let paper be issued in any quantity that the trade and manufaca tore of the country might require, but let the currency' r. st on a substantial golden foundation. Some Gentlemen are surprised that the same persons who condemilea the smaller species of Bank notes should declare them selves in favour of that of a higher denomination.— The surprise, however, is, that any boly should be sur prised at this distinction. The 11. note has qualities which the larger note has not. The larger note covenants to pay the equivalent in metal ; but, with respect to the 11. note, the premise is uniformly broken. When they, came to this lower denomination of notes, and found that they could get nothing but paper in return tor paper. what was the consequence? It produced a rise of prices, which destroyed the reward of labour, . 'd la toftieqtbebtiy ciepliveil tise *oat* Jail at tilt means of subsistence. The 11. note differs in. thcise respects from the larger note. It is in fact, a substitute for the sign and superscription of the sovereign; it is an assumption of the prerogative of the Crown, and It tqpched the nearest interests of the labouring classes.— The resolution of his Right Hon. Friend would correct these evils. It had every recommendation to the confi dence of the House; and hd helieveJ that the passing of that resolution would do more to restore confidence and credit, and to show that it was determined to main tain the circulation of the country on an established, ' permanent, and immovable basis, th in could be effected by any other measure. It is, however, impossible to bear the opposition to this measure without discovering that the opponents of it are divi.led into two classes. One, and I am afraid the larger class, while they object to the time, the mode, and the degree, do, in effect, cover under those grounds of opposition a rooted, fundamental, unsparing, and "undistinguish ing objection to the circulation of any other cur rency, except that which was adopted daring the whole period of the war. It is not necessary to argue with that class on the propositir.n of his Right Hon. Friend. They are favourable to an unbounded and an irresponsible currency—that sort of currency in which the promise might be made to the eye, but never kept to the understanding (Hear, hear). If any of those who object to the present time mean to say that the thing should have been done long - ago, then I agree with him ; but in justice to the Goverinent I must say, that if they had not been hampered by the Bill which it had been deemed expedient to pass is 1822, the thing would probably have been done before ; and they would now, when discussing the state of the currency, have had to discuss it under very different circumsteuces. But admitting that it would have been better if the thing bad been done before I would ask whe. t'ber with reference to the future, any time could be more approptiate than the present for such an effort to restore the circulating medium to its proper, 'mind, solid, and healthy condition ? And let those who so fondly looked to this perpetual, unlimited, unregulated circulation of paper, consider what was the existing state of the law here. Althone nothing were done now to put an end to the circulation of these small notes, let them re member that the law would soon remove their one pound notes, their legal circulation being only coincident with the ddration of the Bank Chaster. Would the period of the expiration of that Charter, then, be a proper time for the withdrawing at once of these swan notes? If it would, where could be the reasonable objection to the ample period of three years, allowed by his Right Honourable Friend's motion ? Then it is to be observed, that no Gentleman has given any particular reason for the period of time which he preferred. The Hon. Member for Taunton had contended for a year's grace, and another Honourable Gentleman had said that even a month's delay would be acceptable.— But among his other objections to delay, one very serious one was this, that delay would be considered out of doors as a defeat, and would, by those who , con tended for further time merely in order to destroy the I plan alt Nether, be most studiously and triumphantly so represented. But among those who fealty and bona Fide wishmerely for delay, is tt ere one who would un dertake to answer to him that the interval would not be empl led in such a manner as to impose new diffi culties in getting the measure carried into effect? The Honourable Member opposite seems, by his man ner, to admit that it would be so employed, and his countenance is too'ingenuous to indicate anything ex cept what is really passing in his mind—(A laugh).— It seemed to admit, that if the present o,'por:unity were suffered to escape, it would be next to impossible, :at a future period, to resume the measure. For years and years have Ministers been assailed with reproach's, and encouraged by enlightened arguments from the op posite side, to make commerce free as air, and to open trade to all the ends of the earth, and to all the winds of Heaven. In this state of things the ques tion of the Silk Trade was introduced, and the measures proposed by Government were, with the con currence of these Gentlemen, triumphantly carried.— What then was the course of argument adopted by the opponents of th it measure? They only wanted time ; I _and why did they want time? Was it to prepare for the opening of the foreign ports? No such thing; but in endeavouring by every effort in their power to pre vent the execution of the measure at all. By the eon ployment of multitudes of labourers, and large purchases of raw material they had accumulated and manufactured 'stock to double their previous amount, and then, wten the re-action came, they raised a cry, and upon the ob stacles to the measure' which they themselves had created, they founded *an argument for timber time. Is not this like the arguments for delay now urged against the execution of the present measure? But be trusted, the House would not now, by such ar-, guments, be induced to give up its purpose, and by . waiting till additional difficulties arc thrown in the way, stultify its own measures and proceedings. I hope it was not necessary lot me or any Member of hie Ma lesty's Government, or any Member of an English As sembly, to mention the feelings of pain and anxiety with which every feeling man reAard's the present commer vial situation of the country. On all hands, in the course of this discussion, there has been a generous abstinence from topics which might have been introduced into it for other purposes than those that are calculated to place the matter in the true point of view. The question has -been discussed on its own merits, without any attempt at inflammation or,rousing the passions; so as to silence the voice of reason. But, as an assembly of Englishmen, it is impossible not to feel deeply for the situation of com mercial friends and acquaintances, and especilally for the distresses of those multitudes, uponthe comfort and wet- . fare of whom the best interests of human society depend. , I am not so absurd u to pretend the alteration in the currency will directly and immediately put as end to our commercial mbar raionseets, which have principally arisen from the uewholesome and.peeternatural extension of commercial speculation ; but I think MA trust, Sir, it will have the effect of alleviating, and pethips tr e e g unting, the reentrance of that distress, which, however it may with the higher, if not withstood in the outset, is soon sure to Sad its way to the lower classes of society ; and as a benevolent INkinarch (Henry IV. of France) said, that he hoped to live to see the day when every peasant might have a fowl in his pot ; so , if this ndon of my Right Hon. Friend pass, I hero to see the day, when every peasant, instead of a piece of (perhaps worthless) paper, will have in his pocket a piece of gold bearing the image and superscription of his Sovereign. tio ( u Th ed e cher aig s h s t fro tr a . Gentleman p.i eftbe sat Hou dor ) amid loud and con- Mr. YEARSE was desirous of vindicating the Bank off En g land from some misrepresentations which had gone abroad in relation to it. The profits of the Bank -of England in its transactions with the public had been stated at much beyond their' true amount. It was • incorrect to say the Bank of England derived immense advantages from its connection with Govertimenr, without affording any cortesponaletit benefit to the • .0 i • ski 1 .; 4 1.31