Star. — London, England, 1827-03-02 00:00:00

1 does appear to me as if it had been &sired to contrive' how the most opipositeviews could be combined by an, Act of the Legiilature. That Act provided that there should be an absolute prohibition under the price of eighty shillings,ond that after the price had turned ' that point there should be unlimited importation.— What was the consequence? Not that these two ex treme principles working together produced a mean course ; but that each in its turn prevailed, an.] from: the year 1815 downwards, everything happened Web ought to deter men from resorting to either of these' principles; but certainly from any attemit to unite them in action. What was the operation of the law in 1815? I say nothing of the prices in that year, because it occasioned an absolute prohibition up to the price of eighty shilling.. The harvest in 1816 was one of the most unfortunate this country ever saw. It was known to he so as early as August, 1816. On the 15th Aug. 1816, the averages prepared in the markets to govern importation, which averages produced exclusion on the' one side, and unlimited importation on the other, were declared. In August the price was above the import price, but not sufficiently long to raise the general ave. rage. The ports were therefore closed for the three starving months of September, October, and November. They were not open again until the 15th of November, and they had not been open above three weeks in con sequence of wheat being above the importation price, when all the northern ports were shut by the natural recurrence of the season. The ports being once opened remained open till the November following; they then closed and opened again in Feb. 1818. They closed at , that time—in Nov.lBl7—upon a fraction of five-pence; the average reached 795. 7d. The harvest of 1817 having proved nearly as bad as that of 1816, there was then nearly as great suffering as in the preceding year. The ports opened again in February, and continued open for some time. The hat vest of 1818 proved abun dant not only in this, but in all the neighbouring coun tries of Europe; and it was as much the interest of this country that our ports should be closed then, as it had been that they should have before been opened. But when the average was next taken it was found to be a fraction of 2J. above eighty, and the ports in con. sequence continued open, spreading a deluge over that year,when it was not required, and depressing the price as low as 38s. This then is the consequence of setting two opposite principles in action together. It was owing wi this that each class of the population suf fered in its turn, and that each class in its turn appealed to this House for relief. Any Gentleman who will turn to our proceedings in the Session of 1817, will see the multitude of Petitions ws'ch were heaped upon the table by the agriculturists, and which were continued through the years 1819,1820, and 1821. In the midst of this distress what was the fluctuation of prices caused by the state of the law? Why, Sir, the price of wheat at one time was one hundred and twelve shillings, and at another thirty-eight shillings, being a fluctuation of seventy-four shillings. That fluctuation was derived from the state of the law, which endeavoured to set these two opposite principles in action. The House listened to the complaints of the agricultural interest in 1822, and the Corn Bill of 1815 was revised. Of that revised law, I am not going too far when I say, that it never came into operation. It is true that that law called duty to its aid. It gave up the principle of unlimited prohibition; and admitted fo reign corn upon the payment of a certain duty. —But, Sir, to that law was added a clause, which, in effect, prevented the body of the Act from ever coming into operation. This clause provided that the law itself should never come into operation until the price of wheat arrived at eighty shillings; and the consequence of this law has been that we have lived, and do live now as much under a system of prohibition, as - if the law of 1822 had never been passed. The other provisions of the law were in fact a dead letter, and were never got at at all. Why then, if absolute prohi bition or unlimited importation will not afford protec tion—and if, as in the law of 1822, it is admitted that duty is a fit mode of protecting oar home agriculture, I will borrow from that law the principles which it never could bring into action, and apply them by means which will net fail of accomplishing that object. And first as to the mode of doing so. Can a fixed duty ever be effectual to that purpose? Take, if you will, Mr. Ricardo's, or either of the other plans, the one a twelve, and the other a five shilling duty—let them be fixed and invariable, and see how they will operate.— Corn in one year is at one hundred and twelve shillings per quarter, and to any corn imported into this country you add a duty of twelve shillings. The average price in the same year falls to thirty-eight shillings, and if you give to that only the same protec tion of twelve shillings, how small a relief do you af ford to the agriculturists of this country ! Is it not quite clear, then, that a duty which is fixed is not cal culated to remedy these evils of fluctuation ? but instead of tending to compens rte and equalise, will rather ag gravate and augment them. I have said that lam in no degree disposed to find fault with the price assumed in 1815, that of eighty shillings, as the maximum of protection in reference to the circumstances of that period. lam equally ready to say, that I find no fault with the price assumed in 1822, that.of seventy shillings. Sir, the prices of wheat for twelve years preceding the year 181.5 averaged eighty five shillings and fourpence, but the average for the immediately preceding six years was ninety-eight shillings and sixpence.— The price assumed in 1815, as I have said, was eighty shillings. No doubt it may be considered that much was deducted on account of the inflammation of the war, and of its corresponding expenditure. The price was fairly chosen. I throw no blame upon the measure. The prices of corn in the years fol lowing 1815 up to 1820, averaged seventy-live shil lings and eleven pence. In the year 1822, a new price as to be taken, and certainly when I tike into consideration the depression which had been exyerienced, I am not inclined to question the propriety of the price which was then adopted. The average for the 12 years from 1815 was sixty-five shillings and tenpence; and the average lot the last years was fifty-five shillings and sixpence. Now, in addition to the expeudituie, the alteration which had been effected in the currency ought to be taken into consideration. Althcugh that mea sure was adopted in 1819, it cannot be said to have come into full operation until 1822, and therefore the price of seventy shillings was not then objectionable, though the average was sixty-five shillings. From that period up to the present time the average price was fifty-five shillings and sixpence, and the exact average for the last year was fifty-three shillings. 1 therefore consider, beating in mind the average price for the last twelve years is sixty-five shillings, and for the last six of those twclre years i s fifty-nine shillings; that although seventy shillings oas a 'air price in 1822, no man will be found—indeed, 1 have teen able to find none, anti my Noble Friend, who has had much greater omen tunities and experience than I have had has found but few, not embarked in this particular trade, wha have not agreed rith us, in considering that sixty shillings at the present time would be a fair average price.— Now, Sir, as to the mode which we recommend as a substitute for this system. I have given the reasons which induce us to think that a fixed duty is not the principle upon which the laws for regulating the trade in corn ought to rest. I have said that a fixed duty without reverence to the variations of price, must at some times be too high, and at others too low. It is to avoid these perpetual inequalities, and the lamen table consequences which have so often followed them, that I think a scale of duties varying with the price, relieving the country when corn is in excess, and making up the deficiency when the supply is short should be adopted. It is by such a system only, that we can carry into effect the great object of giving legitimate protection to agriculture, while at the same time we guard the other classes of the country against the evils which must attend upon perpetual exclusion. In respect to pr ice. I have stated the grounds upon which the price of sixty shillings has been assumed. As to the grounds upon wtrich the amount of duty has been assumed, the explanatrott.of that part of the measure would lead more into details than I can be expected to go, when stating the general nature of our propositions. The prices of foreign markets, and a great variety of other matters, must enter into that consideration, and will therefore be more properly objects for inquiry in the Committee on the Bill. My Noble Friend was satisfied with the propriety of a duty of twenty shillings when the price is at sixty, as much as that sixty was a fair price to be protected. That duty to diminish two shillings for every one shilling of increase in price ; to increase two shillings for every one shilling of diminution in price, i taking sixty shillings as the mean price to be protected. Sir, the effects of that scale would be this :—That at the assumed price of sixty the duty would be twenty shil lings, when the price varied from sixty to sixty-one, the duty would be eighteen shillings - when the price varied from sixty-two to sixty-three ;billings, the duty would be sixteen shillings; when the price varied from sixty-three to sixty-four, the duty would be fourteen shillings; when the price varied from sixty-four to sixty-five, the duty would be twelve shillings; when the price varied from sixty.five to sixty-six, the duty would be ten shillings ; and when the price arrives at seventy, then all duty ceases, and importation will be perfectly free; when I say perfectly free,l mean subject to such a nominal duty as will be necessary for the registration at the Customs. At sixty-five shillings the duty will be ten shillings, and at seventy shillings im portation will be free. On the other hand, the effect of the scale which the Resolutions proposed will be thus: When the price of wheat shall be above 695. per quarter and under 60s. the duty will be 225. per quarter; and the duty will goon increasing progressively in the man ner I have already stated, until the price shall have fallen to 5.55. per quarter, when the duty will have arrived at Ms. per quarter, which may, speaking practically, be considered as a prohibitory duty."—(Hear, hear.) The following are the documents from which the Right Hon. Gentleman made his statements. TANA INSWING 2ZII OPERATION 07 7111 TWOS= Mai 07 10/11.10X WELL If the price per 1 70a. and upwards is Duty. quarter ba 60s. and under 705.... gs. 69,.... 4s. 6114.... 6s. 675... 6s. 66a...106. 645. 635. 621. 61s. 656....126. 646. ..14.. 636...161. 626. ..I 81. Assumed point of protection I 60s. 611...201. 591. 58s. 576. Average price of 1 c , the last 6 yrs. S Average price of 1 5 ,. 1527 to Feb. 15. "" 60L.-222. 59L.-245. 581.-265. 575...28,. Prim left to the Imparter of Fo• reign Wheat after payment of duty. 40s. up to 4ls: 561. ..50s. 551....52.. 541....541. 1171. ... 58.. 54.. 55.. 31s. 52.. 2is. 291. 2.55. lit. flu. 238. 19.. 208. £)QWAL AWIAIIII PUMP OP WHIAT Ifol TICILVZ TUBS MMUS to 1815. Per Quarter. a. d, 57 1 . 60 5 87 1 76 9 73 1 78 11 . 94 5 103 5 92 5 122 8 106 6 72 1 Year ended . 1803 1804 1805 1806 1807 1808 1809 1810 1811 1819 1813 1814 Average of twelve years Sys. AINCIAL AIIIILAO /I TAXIS Or VINZAT 10T11 INCLO Per Quart s. d. 83 S . • 76 2 . 94 0 . 83 8 • 72 3 . 65 10 • 54 5' • 43 3 • 51 9 . 62 0 . 66 6 • 56 11, Year ended . 1815 1816 1817 1818 Idl9 1820 1821 1822 1823 1824 1825 1826. 12 num raom ISIS so 1826, a d. Average of 6 years 74 2 s. & Avenge of 6 years 55 9 Average of 12 years . 645. 114. Average of first six weeks 1227 . 335. 6d: The Right Hon. Gentleman then proceeded have made the Committee acquainted with the outline of the duties which the Resolutions propose, and the principle upon which those Resolutions have been founded ; and I can only say, that it has been the earnest desire and endeavour of his Majesty's Government to poize the scales equally between the great contending interests—(Hear, heat). Casting, I will admit, into the balance the principle (I mean the arrangement of the duties) in the favour of trade, but casting also into the balance, as I think it must be allowed on all hands, price in the favour of apicultui ists—(Chrers). 1 there fore believe and trust that the plan proposed will be found to be both impartial and beneficial, and I con. fess I do not anticipate from any party any objections but such as every system must of necessity be exposed to. I am however desirous to prevent any misunder standing or misconception on the subject. 1 am aware that I may be asked this question. If you agree to a scale of duties which at a given point n ill act practically as prohibitory, why will you not at that point grant us a real prohibitory duty? I will meet such lion. Gen tlemen as would put that question upon their own, ground. I repeat, that in no-instance excepting the l one I have mentioned, has a prohibitory duty been Id mitted es a principle by this country, when legislat►ng I l with reference to the admission of foreign corn. In the long series of years which occurred between 1670 ancr 1774, when the uniaterrumed object of Parliament was not only to discourage the importation of foreign corn, but also to promote the exportation of corn from this country, prohibition was never had recourse to, but always protecting duties. In the second place, I can not but remark, that the experiment has been tried by the Act of 1815, and has most unquestionably failed; and in the third place it appears tome most desirabk, i t there is to be any trade in corn at all, that it should be car ried on on the came principles that other trades are, and in as far as possible, be treated as a regular branch of commerce, and that it should not exist merely by those sudden jerks and impulses which arise only out of ex traordinary circumstances—(Cheers). If the importa tion of corn is always free—not free as to the fact of coming into our home market—butfree in principle, it will fl iw in an equal and regular current, and not in undate our markets ; it will supply the real wants of the country, and not at the one moment overwhelm us, and on the next leave us destitute, as is now the case: we shall no longer be subject to a perpetual series of alter nations from a drought to a deluge—(Cheers). The effect of such regular supply will necessarily be to pro duce, by degrees, a steadiness in the markets, which has not for too many years been known. It will put an end to those extreme variations which have continually occurred since 1815; the price of corn will no longer be fluctuating from 112 s. to 38s. but its vibrations will be bounded by the small circle of from fifty-five shillings to sixty-five shillings. In fact the fluctuations in the price will no longer be such as to overwhelm all sober, plain calculation, and from causing a dearth force the barrier's of the laws, by obliging Parliament or the Executive to legislate against, the Legislation.— (Hear, hear).—And, Sir, there is a further advantage which will attend the working of the system proposed in the resolutions I shall have the honour of submitting to the Committee. It will operate as a cure to an evil of the very first magnitude. I allude to the abuses which at present occur in the striking of the average,— (Cheers).—After I have stated to the Committee that it happened twice io two years that the opening of the Ports was regulated by the fractions of twopence and fivepence, it will be impossible to prevent some suspi cions from arising that the averages were not just and correct—(Hear, hear, hear). By this plan the averages will not only be made up weekly, as they are at present, but they will also be weekly de clared, so as to regulate the duty. This will prevent all undue influence, but when three months, as is at present the case, are allowed before an average can be struck, which will affect the opening of the ports, it is very easy to imagine that great capitalists possess an opportunity of creating such a rise or fall as may be most conducive to their own particular inte• rests. This improper influence will be done away with, for the average of one week will overturn any unusual effect which may have been produced by the average of the week preceding. By this plan the trade in corn will be regulated by the ordinary principles of com merce, and it will assume a character more analogous I to the usual transactions of the British Merchants— (Hear, hear). Again: the plan which I propose will get rid of the interference of the Executive Government, which as some Hon. Gentlemen have very complacently argued operates as a cure, but which I regard as quite the reverse—(Hear, and laughter). But a short time has elapsed since his Majesty s Government felt themselves imperiously called upon to admit, on their own respon sibility, a certain quantity of foreign corn, and Parlia ment and the country agreed that they were right in the step they took ; yet, Sir, while I am conscious that a great public good was effected by the extraordinary power which my colleagues and myself then assumed, I am also conscious that great private injury was occa sioned. Why, Sir, every stroke of the pen which then relieved the public from the danger of famine, also destroyed many a private fortune—(Hear)—And al though Hon. Gents. may talk glibly, and say that we did but do our duty by the country iu acting the part we did, and I myself confess that we should have been unworthy of the confidence of the country had we not so acted, and if we would not have recourse to the same exercise of discretionary power under similar circumstances; still, Sir, I must say, that we should be still more un worthy of the confidence of the country if we had not endeavoured to guard against the recurrence of such an extremity, after we had witnessed the serious injuries it caused.—(Cheers.) Why then, if this measure will pro. duce that effect, that is in itself an advantage worthy of deep consideration, and if it shall appear to do so, when it comes to be discussed and reflected on, may it not be found, that those great interests which have long seemed as wide asunder as are the Poles, have gra dually been approximating, and are now mere nearly connected with each other than has been supposed ? —(Cheers.)—Should that happily be the case, this plan, Sir, will tend to calm the effervescence and to soothe the ill blood which has too long existed— (Cheers).—lt may have the salutary effect of preying that there is room in the world for both, and that the prosperity of the one may go hand in hand with and conduce to the prosperity of the other—(Continued cheers). These are the reasons, Sir, and considerations which have actuated his Majesty's Government in adopting this plan, and I do not feel that it is necessary, nor do I think that it would be convenient for me to en ter further into detail at the present moment. There will be a more proper time for such a proceeding—(Hear). I do not propose to call for any vote this night; my object is to place these Resolutions on the Journals of the House, and afterwards to move for an adjourn ment of the question until Friday se'nnight. I place the Resolutions in the hands of the Committee; and whatever objections may be found with them in their details, I entreat the House to receive them as a peace offering, and as the best measure which the Govern- ment can recommend, devised as it has been by my Noble Friend at the head of the Gore, nment, as a means of reconciling conflicting interests, and binding them together in the spirit of unanimity and good understand ing."—(Loud and general cheering from both sides). The following Resolutions were then put from the Chair : " That it is the opinion of this Committees, that any sort of corn, grain, meal, and Hour, which may now, by law, be imported into the United Kingdom, should at all times be admissible for home use, upon payment of the duties following, viz.—if imported from any foreign country-- WEIZAT, •IZ. Whenever the ge price of wheat made up and published in manner required by law, shall be 60s. anti A s. d. wider 61s. the quarter, the duty shall be (or every qr. 1 0 0 And in respect of every integral shilling by which such r price shall be above 60s. suds doty iamb he Alarm e d by es. until such price shall be 70s. ' 4 Whenever such price shall be at dr *Wee iros. the duty shall be for every quartet " Whenever itch price shall be under &h. and not undue . 595. the duty shall be fur every quarter . And in erspeet of each integral shilling, at any poi a g each integral shilling, by which such ptici shall be us: der Siis. each duty shall he increased by Its. assure. " Whenever the average price of barley made up and published in manner required by la* shall be 30s.rad under 51s. the quarter, the duty slian be for ever, qr. And in respect of every Integral shales by which such price shall be above SOL such duty shall be de creased by Is. 6d. until such price shall he 375. When: ever such price shall be at or above srs. the duty shall be, for every quarter '• Whenever suck price shall be ender Ms. aod not today 291. the doty shall be for every quarter And in respect of each integral shilling, or any part of each integral shilling, by which such price shall be under 495. such duty shall be increased ls. 6d, Cats. a , Whenever the average price of oats made of. Itnd pub , ' licked in manner required by kW shall be tis. and under 22a. the quarter, the duty shalt be for every quarter And in respect of every Integral shilling by which such price dial Ise above Cl,. such duty shall be decreased le. lit. web pike shall be Mts. " such price shall be at or above tea. the duty dtall baler every quarter * IFlliewever svch • price shall be under 21s. and sotunder No,. the duty shall be for every quarter And in respect of each integral shilling, or any part of each integral Aiding, by which such price Slap b e under 20s. such duty shall be increased by Is. avC, TEAS, MID SUNS. ▪ Whenever the average price of rye, or ed peas, or a g beans, made up and publish►d in manner required by • law, shall be 555. and under 565. the quarter, the duty shall be for every quarter And k in respect of every integral sidling by whicli - such price shall ►e above 351. such duty shall be .e. creased by Is. 6d. until such price shall be !Ss. Whenever such price shall be at or above 45L the duty dull be for every quarter Wisenever such price shall be under 555. and OW un der 345. the duty shall be for every quarter , • And in respect of each integral shilling, or any part of each integral shilling, by which such price shall be under 345. such duty shall be increased by Is. 641. WHEAT MEAL AND FLOC{. For every barrel, being 1961 b. a duty equal In moan duty payablems.Bee bushels of wheat. OATMEAL. • " For every quantity of 2511 b. a duty equal is amount duty payable on a quarter of oats. . SEAMS OLUSDIAN COEN, auce-weEAT, ataa Oa BOW w Fat every quarter, a duty equal in amount to the albia is a quarter of barley. • " If the produce of and imported from any British pmessien North America or elsewhere, out of Europe: WHEAT. M For every quarter . . Until the price of British Wheat, made wp and pub lished in manner required by law, shall be 651. per quarter. Whenever such price shall be at or above 655. the duty shall be for every quarter . . WILEY. " For every quarter Until the price of British barley, made up and pub. fished in manner required by law, Man be 335. per quarter. 44 Whene►er such price shall be at or above Us. the duty shall be, for every quarter OAT.. " For every quarter . . . . Until the price of British oats, made up and published in manner required by law, shall be 245. per quarter. " Whenever such price shall be at or above 245. the dor shall be, for every quarter . . . Ali, BUMS, AND PI US. M For every quarter . . Until the price of British rye, or of beans, or of peas, made up and published in manner required by law. r a t 40s. er such price shall be at or above 40s. the duty AA he for every quarter . MINA! DIAL AND FLOCS. " For every barrel, being 196 lb. a duty equal in amount duty payable on five bushels of wheat. oarstaaL. For every quantity of 2521 b. a duty equal In amount payable on a quarter of oats. YAMS OA INDIAN COLN, soca.watal , drat OD awl. " For every quarter, a duty equal in amount to the duty en a quarter of barley. " That it is the opinion of this Committee, that duties shall be regulated and determined, from week to the average prices of corn, made tip in manner required which prices shall, at the several ports of the United King( terming the several rates of the said duties, for and during t next after the receipt of the proper certificates of such prices at such poets respectively." Mr. WESTERN said, that the Right Hon. man had brought forward his Resolutions which did bins the greatest honour. He had very entreated that all party notions might be laid aside he (Mr. Western) should endeavour to dismiss his pis conceived opinions on the subject. He was happy to hear that ample time was to be allowed for the CAA. sideration of the novel plan which had that evening bees introduced, and he trusted that the Committee wntdl examine it with deliberation and with c tuti in. lie confessed that it appeared to him no less dangerou , than it was novel, and be hoped that it ssould be dui, reflected on before it was adopted. He regarded it a; a dangerous innovation on a system which had 'lona the test of ages. He thought that the Right Hon. Gentleman had not dealt fairly with the Act of 1815. It might be true, that that was the first Act which expressly provided against importation until corn had reached a certain price ; but it was also true, that for a long sexier of years circumstances had operated as an effectual bar to the importation of foreign corn, and the Act of 151.5 only confirmed to the British agriculturist, the prove• lion which circumstances had before given (Here the Hon. Member was interrupted by the which prevailed in the House, and rendered him audible.) He was not desirous of entering into an , evasion on the question, if it was contrary to theft tithe House—(Hear) but there were some few obserr dens which he wished to make. The Rt. Hon. Gentle bad mistaken the facts when he stated that the pikes of wheat bad been 112s.since the passing of the Act in 1815; it was in 1812 that wheat was 112 s. per quarterTheam. Member then proceeded to argue that the law of 181.5 had enabled a supply to be gained from foreign countries when required, and that it had protected our bums agricultuie, which had been a benefit to every of commerce. In support of this argument be _ a variety of official returns, and maintained that plan proposed was a far greater and more al. innovation than the Act of 1815. He could not *Liking that a system of duty would be more oboor,_ than prohibition up to a certain price. The system of prohibition inculcated upon the mind the idea that pro. tection to British agriculture was the seik object is view, and that considerations of revenue formed no pail of it. Neither the present price of grain, nor its price for any considerable period during the operation of Bill of 1815, was, or had been, so high as to disci manufactures. Indeed, high price cf corn had rally beeti coincident with the greatest manufactur prospered. 1n . 1821, agriculture and manufactures . been depressed together. In Feb. 1825, when the Ittgl> omi 4e. s, fie be the t • of• 1 2 0 Val MS; 'tom old eta it. 04 9r• 0 10 is tel "hi db. 11161 1 en. lull sea • 0 I/ Ise fad • 0 I I 1p !iv of 10 II be 1 / 1 1$ tlr by mrl beat try O rel seh •of. they fed tire Wee sty der • 0 1 • 0 s o pro t of till be Agi of sot by dpi fere . o 15 II COIr Le . tare app ny tees O 1 s Wel 111). o 11 I wer t of gee be met five moms to i so the Pri° amount to to b inste of a the duty ply. wbe II panelists is imp pricy ▪ s d. moor üb. o prof 55e. plisl S the the o 0 6 Gen O 5 6 potl pub. nod per to tl duty woo O 0 I the they O or woo isbed tens , er. duty was O 0 a disc o so vette peal. his taw, sent duty o 0 y ter ( amount to the the ease said tat to tit duty oscil did 111313• aft. IC duty mu* Si it an the aid systl k to week, by pose quired by kw; Kingdom, cle of - aring the week the such average take wig lon. Gentle- • Ben s in a spirit very justly not el aside, and of Is Hiss his pro• tine as happy to take or the cut• belt vening bees sine tittee wouli 112 tuti 40. Ile Wit dangeroui it w uld be duly ble, garded tent by oactlitoihtgalhdstlsHst i on t .m a it l i cb expressly tbei I reached I long series Pc% ffectual ber mien Act of 151.5 wit; the protec to I rem him.— fro' sy the noise way ed him ie seal nto any die why the feeling' Co. ew observe. obs Gentleman f oe se prices of he ict in 1811.51 ten er.Theam• anc w of 1813 • v er A countries coe our htstne o f 'ery branch ~ ern t be quoted tua rd that the so t e alarming ' pry Id not help wo e obnoxious res system of 131 ea that pro . Oki e object ill lltl sed no pat era or its price the scion of thei , the discourage to] had gene mfacturia; do Kluges had ties ▪ the Rig!' lee Average olds rum 72.. 2d. Average Cid' yean 9135. id. I I II 1.