Star. — London, England, 1830-05-12 00:00:00

e^iild nut receive eviiiinre of that nature of the solemnisatiot► of the marriage, ft was ntrissary to apply to the legislature for re lief. The marriage had been consummated, and the lady was anxious to be released from the engsgement. He, therefore, moved for leave to bring in a bill to annul the marriage contracted between Elisabeth Hickson and Thomas Buxton. The LORD CHANCELLOR said, the allegation in the peti tion called on their lordships to inquire into the ease, and, if sup ported by evidence, to give the relief required. Leave was then given to bring in the bill. The house then resumed the hearing of evidence on the East Retford Disfranchisement Bill. Reverel witnesses were called, who admitted having received 20 guineas each after the several elections since 1818. The sums were sent to their houses, enclosed in papers which bore no signature. 'the further consideration of the subject was adjourned till Thurs day, and their lordships adjourned at nine o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS--TtiEsDAT. Lerd MILTON presented petitions from Halifax, and other 'laces in Yorkshire, against negro slavery ; from Huddersfield, against the punishment of death in cues of forgery; and from Huntingdon, in favour of the Beer Bill. Mr. EASTHOPE presented several petitions from parishes in Sheffield, against burning Indian widows. Petitions were presented against the Beer Bill from Oldford, Basingstoke, Canterbury, Rochester, %Vahan, Worcester, St. Agnes, city of Bath, Wokiagham, Colchester, parishes of St. George and St. Giles, Bloomsbury, New Windsor, from 400 licensed victuallers octhecity'of Norwich, and from the Mayor and Corporation of the city of Norwich. Petitions were presented against the East India Company's mo nopoly, from Leicester Maccles fi eld, and Dean Prior. Mr. HUME presen ted a petition from an individual residing in Glasgow, raying for an alteration in the duty on soap. AIL SYKES said he mould certainly persevere in his motion with respect to soap, for he thought that a reduction of the duty upon that article would be of greater benefit to the people, than a reduction of the duty upon beer. Mr. HU3IE presented a petition from Lismahago, in Lanark, for the abolition of church patronage in Scotland. Sir H. PARNELL presented a petition from Mount Melick, against the proposed increase upon stamps. Mr. S. RICE presented a petition from the perish of St. Michael and St. John, against the duty upon coals. A Petition was presented in favour of Jewish emancipation from Exeter. ietidoss were presented from Limerick and Mallow, against the proposed Stamp duties. Lord ALTHORP presented a Petition from an individual named John Smith, against the practice of the Small Debts' Court. The same noble lord presented a petition from the county of Northum berland, complaining of the Poor Laws; and from a person named Flanagan, complaining of Corporation abuses in Ireland. 3lr. H. DRUMMOND presented a petition from Stirling,against the proposed increase of dutyon British spirits. Mr. BYNG presented a petition from the inhabitants of Water loo-road, praying for the formation of a new street from Waterloo bridge to the Museum. 31r. O'CONNELLpresented a petition from the Irish catholic bar in favour of the Galway franchise bill. The same bon. member pre sented petitions from Kilmahon, Kilmorc, New Ross, Irishtown, and the parish of the Holy Trinity, spinet the vestry act. The same hon. member presented petitions agamst the tithe composition act, from Capoquin, county of Cork, and New Roes; from New Ross, against the Subletting Act ; from Freshford, praying that the Government might take the payment of the Protestant clergy into their own hands ; from an individual named Brodignal, residing in the county of Meath, against the proposed duty oa tobacco. Upon the motion of the same hon. member, the Catholic Charities' Bill was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on the 38th instant. POLICE IN ZEELAND. Mr. O'CONNELL gave notice titTitl;;;;;dd, on Tuesday next, present three petitions, from Michael Whelan, Patrick Farrell, and Patrick Leary, respecting the homicides at Borrisokane. The hen. gentleman then moved for a copy of the coroner's inquest upon the body of Daniel Nolan, who was killed at Midtown Malbay, in the county of Clare, on the 29th of June, 1829, for whose alleged mur. der William Feiguson;a police constable, was tried and acquitted at the ensuing assizes. On the question being put, Air. DOHERTY said that in the absence of the noble secretary of state for Ireland, he must express his astonishment that a mo. thin such as this should be brought forward as a matter of course, and that the honourable and learned member for Clare should move for the depositions on a coronet's inquisition, without showing any grounds, and without having given the slightest notice. The motion came upon him by surprise; but, as it was altogether coo. trary both to principle and precedent, he must give it his opposition. This was the commencement of a system which would make the house a court of appeal from the criminal tribunals, and the deal. sion of juries in lreknd ; and if this course were pursued, there would be no case which had been submitted to the investigation of a jury, which, upon some ground, or under some pretext or other, might not be brought before them. The house would thus be made to suspend the proper tribunals; for if any thing erroneous had oar curved; there were other and proper places of appeal to which errors might be referred. His attention was more alive to this, on account of a motion of the Honourable and Leaned Member's standing on the book for tomorrow night, which was for the pro. duction of the depositions of the witnesses for the crown on a capital case in Ireland; but that motion did not rest there, as it also pur. ported to be fora copy of the notes or the judge who tried that and several other cases. He would appeal to any honourable and learned member in the house whether such a motion had ever been granted, and he would defy any one to contradict that this was the most monstrous thing ever attempted by any hon. member, and that it was altogether and entirely without precedent. The hon. and learned member for Clare had declared that never would he be absent from his place, and that no evening should miss him from attendance on his duty—but on one very remarkable evening he was absent. An honourable and learned gentleman, the member for Mallow— he mistook— the honourable m em b er for Mallow—.fiut he ho he was not displeased at th e latter imputation — (a laugh given trd ped notice of a motion connected with the consp . Now any one who had been in Irel a nd f or th e l ast eight months, and knew all that had been said and threatened by the honourable metnber for Clare, would have supposed, that of all the nights during the session, that was the particular one upon which he (Mr. Doherty) must have expected to have met the honourable and learned gentleman face to face, because allegations of an important nature" had been made respecting his personal cha racter; and, what was of infinitely greater importance, against the pure administration of justice. Then, certainly ought the gentle. man who had made accusations behind his (Mr. D. s) back, to be in his place, and be had looked for him, but in vain—he was not to be found. And why did he introduce the mention of that now ? Because if the honourable and learned gentlemen had then been in his place, he would have beard a discussion on the propriety of pro. during depositions or the notes of a judge. The opposition to the 'isogon did not come from Government, for they had nothing to conceal; but the motion was opposed by an honourable and able and learned friend of his, as being contrary to all principle, and without any precedent. To see the present motion then brought forward, and, above all, by a lawyer of thirty years' stand inf. excited to the utmo s t his astonishment; but although this ;night be an insignificant case, he would not have given it Us op. position, nor should be have urged the violation of principle as an argument, but that he had referred to the records of the house and found that the present motion was altogether without the shadow of a precedent. It might be asked how this could be jar. portant to him, and if the hous e w ou ld hear him he would ally say why the subject w as p ersona ll y i m p ortant . H e was not accustomed to view the words or actions of honourable members with sus picion ; but if the conduct of an honourable member led to the ref that he bad a certain object in view, and that that ob. jeet was a retreat—if, in addition, that hon. member was a lawyer of great dexterity--he would watch every stone that member laid for preparing the bridge by which he intended to escape. When by his (Mr. Doherty's) taunts the hon. and larded member was forced to exhibit the courage which he for the first time had as stinted, what was his course. He ' " I shall bring forward the Doneralle conspiracy —that is, if the will grant me certain documents, for which I shall move—if they do not, I shall let i c = ra t t t a the ground." Accordingly, after twenty-four hours' as to the documents he should move for, he canto forward with a motion for documents, the granting of which was so entirely repugnant to principle and precedent, that anxious as he (Mr. Doherty) was to meet the hoe. and learned member face to face, and to have a full discussion of the whole subject, yet over. ruled by th e opinion of those who valued principle sod precedent, be could not consent to grant the present motion upon terms which would violate every pr iplat that ought to be dear to that house.— (Hear, bear.) The and learned member. however, par aded a safe course, and his ft was plain and obvious--it was by two steps, to secure to ItimsU a safe ;retreat, the first of which was to move for documents; I: could not be granted, and then next to say be could Dot' _on, because he did not get Amer (Hear, hear.) He (Mr.- " ,) towns, *Quid say the impsseh. men; of his conduct rested upon feed, whisk he admitted—on do. commis which were helm the puWll, whiciage printed in all the newspaper% and to ail of which he AndW, y in the face of the house. Thies could thin be no d is h as ftt was wished for was admitted... The hon. and gestlesnal said that he (Ms. riezi es ikted•upon information be 'a nd had allowed to swag to certain thinla wkich knew to be !alas; aad• be, they* cot lag known to hours, appeal to them whether It wee hkeli be would so ._fttle Ace which was coin . • milted to bilk for she purpose of the ossiviction et as in nem* nosner(dtettea ) The bearale - slood gent. bad, however, brought this charge against him—one, that he had made use of the , I power and au thorit y his offies gave him, to protect guilty parties, am to saran them Prom punishment; and the next and moo heavy accusation was, that he, with several other gentlemen as honourable and as high-minded as ever adorned a liberal professiOn, had leagued together and entered into a conspiracy —and that with documents in their possession to prove the falsehokl and the perjury of the wit-1 nears for the crown, they bad still gone on to ensure the capital conviction of innocent men. These were the charges made send him, and as he had said before, he admitted all the facts. There could be no trouble, therefore, about documents ; and he assured the house that if his own personal character were the only consideration involved, he should not thus weary them. There was, however, something there that told him, and he was sure there was not a second gentleman in the house who could believe him guilty of such baseness, and, but for other consi derations, he would have left these accusations to produce the excitement they were intended for uneontradictcd. (Cheers.) They had been made at meetings in the tavern in the street, and to the rabbis; to those cert a i n ly amongst whom he never went! but, when he did go amoupt the people, it wu not as a volunteer, but to discharge the duties whic h were intrusted to him by his Majesty's representatives; and these he discharged fairly, faith fully, honourably, and, be also hoped, mercifully. (Cheers.) In these he had not any personal interest or concern, nor should he have in these accusations, but that an interest much deeps than personal was engaged—be me a nt th at o f t h e public. character of a public man was public property, and even in so in significant a station se that be held, it was important to preserve it pure. If that were true in any country, it was doubly true in Ire land, more especially when connected with the administration of jus tice in that country ; and his conduct, without meaning offence, he would say, and which he bad documents to prove, was the daily, nay, almost hourly, subject of the bon. and learned member's un founded slander—(loud cheers.) Mr. O'CONNELL said he thought that on an occasion where one of the King's subjects had lost his life, and that an individual had been charged with the crime, it was not so very extraordinary a proceeding to move for a copy of the coroner's inquest. If his reasons for doing so had been required, he was ready to give them ; and if, instead of the tragic display that had been made, these reasons were asked for, he would have been happy to have stated them. (Hear, hear.) He had not arraigned the administration of justice—for the acquittal, be admitted, was quite right ; but his reason for wishing to have this inquisition was, that he might make use of it on a bill now before the house—the Constabulary bill—(a laugh).—His motive was that the officer and the other per sons belonging to the police, knowing that the man was innocent, suffered him to lie in gaol for six weeks, and had not come forward on the Coroner's inquest, the consequence of which was that the guilty party was still unpunished. He certainly meant to follow that up by a motion for a return of those who had loot their lives by the police. He was not to be deterred by any man in the house from the perform a n ce o f hi s d uty . He would do it (ear -1 *sly, as he had ever done. He did not pretend the courage Bandy as called in courts of honour — be disclaimed and dim. vowed that. If blood were on his hand, it was to him a source of deep regret and heartfelt sorrow—such and so deep that he had registered a vow never again to enter into such a conflict—(har, hear.) The hon. gentleman knew that—for It was well known-- he knew that he had suffered insults to pass unpunished ; and but for that the hon. gentleman well knew that he would not have dared to make the attacks, and utter the taunts so safely Neerted to in that house—(Cries of hear, and loud cries of " order, order.") Here the Speaker rose, but before he had time to call Mr. O'Connell "to order," the latter repeated several times—" I retract the expressions." [He then pro. esedeti]—he was perfectly aware that the present proceedings had been adopted with a view of prejudicing a motion which stood for to-morrow. The honourable and learned mem ber, however, must be at any rate aware that the notes of a trial be. fore the Lord Chief Justice of the Court of King's Bench, when called for in the Exchequer Chamber, are always produced. This is also the cam with die Chief Justice of the Common Pleas, who, as well as the other Judges, produces the notes of every cause tried before him, whenever they are called fie. These notes are just u much a legal document as anything else; and he (Mr. O'Connell) could see no reason why they should not be pro duced in that house. The notes of the Judge were not of so much consequence to his case, as all the information he wished for might be obtained from another source. He moved for them, how. ever, on the ground that the most authentic documents might be produced, and that there might be no charge against him on that ground. The next subject which he had thought it his duty to In vestigate, was touching the trials of the so called Doneraile conspi. rators. At an early period of the linden, he had intended to bring this subject before the house; but he then thought that the time of the house was occupied on more important business, and since then he had come to the conclusion that it would be better to let the sub ject rest, and endeavour to allay the angry feelings that had been excited on this subject. He did not call in question the propriety of putting on their trials, for their lives 13 or 14 respectable farmers, who were • now admitted to be innocent, and were now at home with their families. He did not call in question the conduct of the honourable and learned gent. (Mr. Doherty) on this subject. But be would maintain that it was the duty of the counsel for the crown to have let the prisoners know of the exists me of the document of which so much use was made on the trial. It was their duty' net to seek to convict, but to see whether the wiles on their trial were guilty or not, and to have afforded them ever= portunity of proving their innocence. He greedy blamed the trates—wito bad regularly hired spies in their service and pay for the space of 18 months-4e blamed their conduct in suffering permeate be accused and put on their trial who were not accused in the first im amate, and who, it was known,would be called as witnesses for those gatwhom the charge was first brought. If it were permitted would go at great length into this part of the subject to. mitermr. If he could now get the papers and documents he now mewed for, he should proceed with this part of the case until It was completely investigated. If the conduct pursued in the Borrisokeen case was right, then that pursued in the Doneraile conspiracy was certainly wrong. In the Borrisokeen cue, the Counsel for the Crown had thought it sight to call a witness subtxmaed for the prisoner. (Hear.):He was ready—as he was with regard to every thing that he said in that house—to prove it at the bar; he had been six or seven times taunted on this subject; he repeated, that if the papers were refined, he should not press for them; he did not mean to say that the man was fey of murder in Bor. deplore . ," but be protested against the police being allowed to carry arms. The use to which his present motion referred was simply this ; a warrant for an assault was issued against Daniel Nai ler, and was to be sent at one o'clock in the morning to his mother's house, where there was a marriage being celebrated, to execute it. This was not a proper time to execute a warrant foe a common assault, and still less at an Irish wedding. The man against whom the war rant was issued endeavoured to escape, and was fired at and killed. No doubt the person accused of murder was Innocent ; but be (Mr. O'Connell) doubted the Propriety of arming the police with deadly weapons; he repeated, it his motion was opposed, he should with. draw it. The motion was accordingly withdrawn. Mr. HOBHOUBB presented a petition from certain inhabitants of London, praying for the opening of a new street from Waterloo. bridge to the British Museum; also a petition from Bolton, most numerously signed, against the emplOyment of children in manu factories; also a petition from Oldham, for regulating the time far working. The honourable member said he should„ at some fu ture time, introduce to the coosideratke of the House a measure for the consolidation of the laws relating to working in ma. nufactories. rADA. JUDOZ Lord MILTON presented a petition from J. W. Willis, Esq. who had been a Judge in Canada, praying the attention of the house to his situation. His Lordship said be wished to draw the attention of the house to the case of Mr. Willis, whose petition be held in his hand, and who had tilled the office of Judge in the Court of King's Bench, in Upper Canada, and bad been super. seded, and he believed &ill/ da r t :moved from his situation. By an Act of the Colonial re, the court in whi c h M r . WU- Ili sat had been constitu of a Chief and two Public Judges. While Mr. Willis acted in the latter capacity, the Chief Justice came to England on leave of absence from the Governor of the Co. key. His duty devolved on Mr Willis, and in the course of his paformance of it, it occurred to him to inquire whether by the le- gal constitution of the Court be had the power to do so. It was sufficient for his (Lord Milton's) purpose, that this gentleman felt a reasonable doubt on this subject—for whether Mr. Willis should ultimately be deemed to have been right er wrong i n hi s opinion, under all the circumstances of the case, be could hardly be said to have been clearly originally wrong. However, he represented to the Government of Canaria the impossibility of Ms sitting in the place of the Chief Justice. The Council se knowledged that it was dearly impossible to require of him toe:.ercise tie functions of that offia, while he continued under that lett proudest. In consequence, the business of the Court was s and Ph. Willis was eventually suspended. He ((L or d Mil ur6 no wades se arraign the conduct of the ____ adealibaseam, but yet be Illaiderad that there had been somedibeg in la disk . 6 4, f ie By tbe constitution of the imagery, Me. Wills could say be removed by the act of the gomsaee is council. ipi n g the governor, on his own audtedity, removed Mr. Willis en *spa Jews, it* No communication had boo aisle to the emissli Gila the With, when It orassmed his &aim Air. W11N1,4111 renewal, retuned to Ileshol and appal In redrew et the 44 hie has. Mead, the Oeheiel Beeestaey, by when be wee rad to the !sky whhh be in opinion tem a haild esseerred hi the asodnet puessed _immunise et Canada. But obi& he Owed Hilton esasi the by statute of the awn se whldt lie. lielsoged, NI that a very coodinallie doubt sit be esiestebsed en the WON. Let it be supposed that llie. Willis had seadnued to sit; thin might he not have been exposed to the danger of Wanting the ..altiett of false imprisonment, or even murder, no he would have done, in court notlegally commissioned. ' P his (Lord Mil ton) said to show that it was a case at least requiring very great circumspection. He did not complain of the government lay ing taken measures for establishing another judge in the place of Mr. Willis. He did not impufm the decision of the Privy Council, because, with all the light of legal authority which in Mtjeled, be gave it credit for having correctly overruled the ob- Palms of Mr. Willis ; but his object was to lay before that house, and pertkularly to submit to his right honourable friend, the ruin. ous silket of the measures which had been adopted in regard to this unfortunate individual, whose prospects in life were likely. in the result, to be blighted for ever. Such consequences should not fall upon Mr. Willis, for having conscientiously exercised his disczetion on a subject, which, it could not be denied, was open to some reasonable doubts. What he (Lord IWiltnn) then stated, he had stated in private, and also to the Under Secretary of the Colonies; and he now submitted it to the consideration of the House. Sir G. MURRAY hoped the house would pardon him if he tres passed for a short time on its patience. He was sure the subject in troduced to their notice b the noble lord was one of considerable importance — certainly nothing could be more important than what. ever could be supposed to influence the independence of Use Bench ..-nothing more worthy of the attention of that house than a transac tion which involved the removal of a Judge from his situation. He (SIT G. M.) was exceedingly happy that this petition had fallen into the hands the noble lord, for the house must teed with him that there was no individual whose weil.known character and principles could eV, more weight to an inquiry of this kind. He (Sir G. M.) thought necessary to enter into the circumstances of this case a little in detaiL Mr. Willis had been recommended to Government for the situation of Judge in Canada by Sir Charles Wetherell, when At torney-General, in which capacity he continued to ate until the Chief Justice, having been absent from England for seventeen years, obtained leave to return thither for some time. In the first tam afta this event, Mr. Willis discharged his duty in the King's Bench Court, in Canada; but in the interval between that and the second term, he adopted the opinion that the court was incomplete, as by the colonial statute it sou constituted of one chief and two mains judges. Mr. Willis expressed this opinion on the first day of term. His brother judge differed from him in that view of the case, and proposed an adjournment of the Court until next day, to which Mr. Willis objected, on the ground that the Court had ceased to exist. He then addressed a letter to the &- eatery of State, and another to a gentleman in his office. These letters he presented to the Governor to transmit to England ; to which proposition the latter refused to acquiesce, as he sou not aware of their coutents. Mr. Willis then transmitted them open to the Secretary, and he stated that although unwilling to sit in Court, he was ready to perform any other business, of the legality of which he had no doubt. A communication was, in conse quence made to him to know what he considered legal, and what not ; but he ,declined an explanation on that head. He then not only declared the court dissolved during the absence of the Chief Justice, but asserted that all the business transacted in the tam which ad just passed, was illegal and void. The house would per ceive that it was impossible for such a state of things to continue. In consequence Mr. Willis was suspended. He (Sir G. Murray) should advert particularly to the observation made by the no Ue lord relative to this matter having been de c id e d by the governor of Canada on the 26th, and only submitted to the council on the 27th of June, 1628 ; but the house should know that the council bad sat also on the 25th of June, when this matter was communi l i - cated to it for its approbation. As this question then appeared to, him (Sir G. Murray) to be one of law. he resolved to sub. mit it to his Majesty's privy council ; and as Mr. Willis complained of the expense of this mode of proceeding, the government under took to meet his expenses. In the privy council on this occasion were the Chief Baron, the Vice-Chancellor, and Sir Christopher Robinson, so that its decision had the authority of persons high in rank, and of distinguished ability in the profession of the law. That tribunal considered the objections of the petitioner, and de. tided that " the removal of J. W. Willis from the Court of Ca nada was not illegal and void." He (Sir George Murray) had thus recounted this whole transaction fully, and he trusted the house would feel that government had pursued the only course which sou open to them, and equitable. The petition was brought up, and ordered to lie on the table. Lord MILTON presented a petition from Leeds, signed by not less than 13,000 of its inhabitants, praying for reform. The rayer of the petition was supported by Mr. MAIIIHALL. Mr. DUNCOMBE said be should support the petition as far as respected retrenchment and economy. But he should certainly not vote for annual parliaments or vote by ballot. Sir T. ACKLAND presented a petition from 20,000 inhabitants of the county of Devon, against the tithe system. Lord Ea at ItaTON supported the prayer of the petition. Sir T. ACKLAND presented a petition from Teignmouth, against the duty upon coal borne coastways. Petitions was presented from Galway. against the increased duty on stamps in Ireland; frees Kirkcudbright, Bridport, against the Beer 811 l ; from W the Insolvent Debtors' Bill; from Reading, in favour of i ft et ßEL Mr. MONCK supported the pra etthe petition from Reading, as he thought the sale ribose t set be made too free. • Mr. D. W. HARVEY mimed he ahem of the numbers of writs of inquiry issued by the emmindestas of public charities ahem the year 1898; also the awls incurred by such processes, sad tube the results of the several inquiries so instituted. The returns alsa A7d WIN 'mimed ; as were as the meths of the same hon. member, soma returns of the fees by the several superior courts. The CHANCELLOR the HICHEQUER presented a ti t from Armagh, agelest the fine eased duty on stamps in Mr. BROWNLOW wished to bays heard It said by the Chan cellor of the Exchequer, that it was imet his Intention to impose any further tax on Irish newspapers, which were already unproductive speculations. The petition was then laid on the table. On the modest of Mr. HUME, a bill was brought in for the abo lition of fess chargeable on patents to public officers, on the demise of the Crown. LORD LIZOTINANT 01 IRELAND. Mr. HUME said that one of the great evils of Ireland was that the immense sums expended in Ireland had been applied not to the promotion of trade or industry, but to foment and encourage party spirit, welsh was the tame of that country. It was well known that Ireland could be made a source of strength to the empire, if proper encouragement and activity were given to her internal resources I and he was sure that, with proper economy, a sufficient sum could be deducted from the Irish expenditure to enable the people of that country to obtain full employment ; for his part he had always thought that the office of Lora Lieutenant was a source of great mischief in Ireland. whilst the expense of the office and its accompa niments was a burden to the country at large. The continuance of that office was, he thought, inconsistent with the principles of the Union, by which the countries were combined into one; but instead of Ireland being made an integral part of the kingdom, she was treated and governed as a colony, with a colonial government, which invariably created abuses ; experience chewed that delegated power was invariably abused. What he wished to see was a perfect assi milation of all English and Irish institutions; but the reverse of this bad been the practice both before and after the passing of the Union. (Hear.) He was sure that there had been tarts made to assimilate the laws of both countries, but not to any great ex tant, all the evils ofixdonial governments had been felt by Ireland, with this separating Menace, that one party there was supported to oppress the other. In mole this, he would mention that, out of 11,110 Aloes held in Ireland, there were little more than SOO held by Catholics, who formed the bulk of the people. The lint best step to blend the two countries was the withdrawal of the Lord Lieutenant, and the sooner It was done the better. He could not see why Ireland should not be governed as Scotland was. It was, be thought, a degradation to bighorns to be thus treated as • colony. The practices and of what be would call the colonial government of would never be issued from a British Cabinet, nor would they be sanctiseed by Parlia. mint. He did not charge the lasi Liseemeret of Ireland; their conduct was the inevitable result tit the system which they were called upon to uphold. All tbs pmts mi n Ireland had been for a long time eupported on the they were net/nary, but now that they were almost si amdemmeed with Seglish offices, their inutility was proved. The espimlllem of a *laid governor might be a bmat to a few little pent INN but it was an injury to th e ceimatinity at large; and the :of the Lord Liente. mat bad the der of deterring E and Walloon hem relates In Dublin. The of that cranny would be bemelsed= v e einseal of the le while he alluded. His was the erases at Wills; forward the sub )sot le thente the beet IMO diet VW* 1111 miens to pursue. He that mewed am humble Address be pessinled to his Ma. leatY• MAW diat his ilejesty would be pleased I. onsid e: wise tba dos dies et Leek Lisatiesat could not be abashed with ad vantage to Ireland mad die Riegiin Lord F. L. GOWER,. is th e st the Nodes, said, it the hat. number was acquainted with peppiest that coma try (bawd), lie id set hie diet *peel to them which he sow made. He (Lied F. L. Gower) was enable to diosever the *hay which the hes. member bad angel to exist shot ro co u l2 lade ha whisk ter. -the Lei isL siamert. Be could Nis* ha et seardesose, at beet tinting_ the Vico-royalty of the het tend pesenst o rs Lira tarot. WIS Para to what the hes. umber bed in the sivegesubm et the aseseiseles of the Meade et In= (Lord eta hi Freesie v a inz emi g ined (hat est se a mesh' roses kw the re sidencehied.es, ds that a sieecturs he bier wilemisy to the able and meiiiio ordain ot the Amer whib be Moir was in race. They hod plis sz t; to de, is caniiisring the bed nude droned% the ware elf that ~try, in attending to Add :estreerweime, sad fa cerressal eating with the English government. The hon. member had not ustif l ios made out a sufficient case to j the house in abolishin g the ice of lord lieutentant. It would b e I lad to sa y th at Ireland would derive advantage from the withdraw of the court of a %%nifty, when that country was represented as suffering from the union ot the two countries. He did not agtec with the hon. member that tb higher classes would be more likely to flock into Dublin, and take up their residence there, If the court of the lord lieutenant were withdrawn. He was certain that such an assertion would not gam concurrence among the more respectable classes in Ireland, f or there was no ground for saying that respectable families kept aloof from Dublin through jealousy of the circle which surrounded the lord lieutenant. The noble lord concluded by opposing the motion. Mr. S. RICE contended that the principle on which the local government of Ireland:acted, was to create an inner circle, who governed in every respect, tet was free from responsibility. Th ere was a continual change of secretaries of opposite political prin. ciples, which rendered it impossible to establish any permanent system of government; for as soon as a secretary beesnic ac quainted with the laws and customs of the country, and began to take an interest in it, he was removed. The boo. gentleman hers enumerated the several sec ttaries who bad succeeded each other for seven years. The general impression In Ireland was that the nation' coterie which surrounded the castle, and who from ex. perience were acquainted with every thing in that country, rul e d Ireland, not the Lord Lieutenant, or his secretary ; and for this con. elusion there were ample grounds. He had no desire to divest monarchy of its splendour,but be did not agree with the n o bl e load that the morals or lie politics of the peop le of Ir e l m d were much improved by the establishment of th e viceregal cou rt in Dublin. He did not think that Dublin would suffer much from the removal of that court. Did the city of Edinburgh re. quire a court to promote its pr osperity ? (Hear, hear, hear.) Dublin was now becoming a commercial city ; and much as he vs . bled (gage the Fourth, he would prefer one steam-boat to a ship. load of Lords Lieutenant. The lion. member here took a view of the relation which existed between the Courts of Law and the Lord Lieutenant. He for one deprecated the intercourse which existed between them. He did not mean to object to the exercise of the prerogative of mercy by the Lord Lieutenant ; his objection to th e relation between the Judges and the Irish Court was founded on other grounds. The hon. member concluded by supporting the motion, as, in his opinion, the better mode of promoting the eel. fare of Ireland. Mr. G. MOORE denied that there was an advancement in thc commercial prosperity of Dublin, as stated by the hon. member (Mr. Hume.) He was of opinion that the prosperity of Dublin had beer on the decline since the period of the Union ; and if so, how much more should it decline by the removal of the vice-regal establishment. Sir H. PARNELL considered the existence of the office of Lord Lieutenant in Dublin one cause of the decline of commerce in that city. The hon. baronet then proceeded to compare the aimim; law of Ireland with that of Scotland, with a view to show how in Scotland these laws worked well without a viceroy, and that, if put on the same footing in Ireland, would have the same effect. Ilk thought that the abolition of this office would be popular in Ireland, and being satisfied that it would redound to the benefit of that country, he would support the motion. Lord OXMANTOWN was opposed to the motion. He never heard any person in Ireland speaking of the subject who did not ex. press his hostility against the abolition of that office. In opposing the motion of the hon. member for Abetdeen, he begged to say the he was not opposed to retrenchment in the expenditure of that office, and in =sequence of the healing measure of last year he thought that a retrenchment should be made in the military e xpenditure of that country. (Hear.) Lord ALTHORP was satisfied that it would be a most desirable object for the government of England and for Ireland to abolish that office. There was no more reason for having a separate Go. vernment in Ireland, than in one of the northern English counties, for the communication was nearly as easy. He did not see that the abolition of that office would increase absenteeism. He thought that the aristocracy and gentry of Ireland would form a circle in Dublin, as those of Scotland did in Edinburgh. He would lease the pecuniary consideration out of the question ; if he thought that the removal of that court would prejudice that country, no regard for economy would induce him to vote for the abolition of that office. Sir G. MURRAY agreed with the noble secretary for Ireland, that the member for Montrose had not made out a sufficient case for the removal of the office of Lord Lieutenant. He denied that there was any coterie connected with the office, which ruled the affairs of In. land. There might be cues in which the Viceroy differed from the English Government. But this Government must be weak, if it did not remove the Lord Lieutenant immediately ; for the subordinates should agree, or submit to the directions of the superior, or there could be no confidence or good order. The right lion. baronet thea alluded to the observations of the hoa. member for Montrose, respect. big the colonies, observing that there was very little foundation for most of the assertions of the hon. member respecting these colonies. The right hon. member concluded by expressing his hostility to the motion. Mr. O'CONNELL was sure that it had never been understood in Ireland that this motion would be seriously persevered in. If it had been so understood, there would be petitions front every part of the country against it. It was bad policy in legislation to oppose the feelings of the people. The government of Ireland would have influence over factions which lords lieutenant of counties could not have; misery in Dublin was extreme. It would astonish inemben of this house if they were made acquainted with the real state of the people of that country. Mr. BROWNLOW heard no sufficient answer to the argumenu of the hon. member for Montrose ' to persuade him that his o ffi ce should be upheld. The people of Ireland had experienced too much of lord lieutenants to be pre- possessed in favour of that court. lie thought that the house was bound to press the immediate abolitior of that office. Lord CASTLEREAGH opposed the motion. Mr. JEPHSON was favourable to the motion before the house. Sir J. YORK) was anxious that Ireland should be governed as an integral portion of the empire, and therefore he was for having the office of lord lieutenant abolished. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER contended, it reply to his honourable friend, the member for Limerick, that tht funalons of the Lord Lieutenant were not performed by subordinate individuals; but, even if they were, bow, be would ask, would the thing be improved by changing the system in the way proposed The House ought to consider the feelings of the people. of Ireland on this subj,ct, and then they might judge if the House, from all that had been said by the Irish members, both for and against the isotion, were decidedly hostile to the removal of the Lord Lieu. tenant. Mr. HUME replied. The House then divided, when the number were For the motion Against it 229 Majority against the modem-- Sir J. GRAHAM postponed his motion for an account of toe salaries, fees, &c. held and enjoyed by each of the members of his majesty'a privy council being laid before the house. Mr. ROBINSON brought forward his motion for a committee to inquire into the state of the island of Newfoundland. The trade of this island was of great importance. In the year 1827, 851 vessels entered into its ports. The fish caught there was sent to England, to Naples, to Tuscany, to Spain, to Portugal, and to the West Indies, so that all these countries were interested in the welfare of this Island. lie contended that the fisheries ought to be sup. ported and encouraged. The hon. gentleman concluded by moving that a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the state of the Island of Newfoundland. Sir G. MURRAY said it would be for him to ask whether the hon. member had made out a case to call upon the house to ap point this Committee. He submitted be bad not. After some discussion, in which Messrs. Bernal, Labouchere. Ponsonby, Hume, Sir 0. Murray, and Robinson, took part, the house divided. The numbers were.— For the Motion Against it. B2 Majority against the motion... Mr. BROUGHAM asked the right hon. gentleman whether the bill brought into the other house by the Lord Chancellor for the re 'deka of the Court of Chancery, bad been for a second time The CHA NCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had not ever:Cat of the report. Lord TULLAMORE moved that a committee be appointed to inqttheinto a grant of 18,0001. for extending the Royal Canal in Ireland to Wily Mr. A. DAWIION and Lord F. GOWER opposed the motion, which was ultimately negatived without a division. The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at Three o'Clock. Mr. SY KES has postponed, till June 2, his motion for a Select Committee oa the Soap and Candle Duties, and the frauds sad difficulties attending the collection-of the same ; and, as to the practicability of levying the various duties on timber and den' imported from the Baltic by an equitable standard. The Earl of Belfast had a grand dinner party on Sun day, at his house in Arlington-street; among whom were PAWS and Princess Esterhuy, the French and Portu gueu Ambassadors, the Duke of Wellington, Due de C au l, the Marquis sail Marchioness of Salisbury, the Earl and Countess of Glengall, Earl Dudley, Lord and lady Waloughby, Mr. and Mrs. Arbuthnot; and in the esaalne, her ladyship ealertained a numerous and elo ped lesensbbio of the "!taut ton." .ff , t II 9 t