Star. — London, England, 1820-02-22 00:00:00

~ II 'AditLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF LORDS, FEBRUARY Sl. The Earls of ANICRDZCN, WINCNSLIIIA, Drone and Cow rows and Lord BOSTON, took the oaths and their seats. The Marquis of CHOLMONDELEY (as Lord Steward) reported the King', Answer to their Lordships' Addresses of Friday, which was read frqm the Woolsack, and expressed his Majestyl.thanks to the House for its loyal and dutiful Address. He again thanked their Lordships for their renewed condolence on the circumstance of.the lamented death of hii Majesty's Royal Father, the late King, and expressed his Majesty's cordial satisfaction at their Lordships assurance of their readiness to concur in such measures as his Majesty may deem it proper in the present exigency to adopt. With respect to the death of his Majesty's Royal Brother, the late Duke of Kent, his Majesty received with satisfaction their' Lordships' condolence on that lamented event. The Marquis CORNW ALLIS reported the Answer of her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent to their Lordships' Mes sage of Condolence on the afflicting circumstance of the death of bet Royal Highness's illustrious Consort, which was expressive of her Royal Highness's high and grateful sense of the distinc tion so conferred upon her. • These Answers were ordered to be entered upon the Journals. Mr. Meet's from the Commissioners for the Reduction of the National Debt, presented an Account of the Receipt and Expenditure of that Board for the year endihg the sth January. Lord AUCKLAND presented a l'etition from the Debtors confined in the King's Bench Prison, praying 'for the continu ance of the Insolvent Debtors Act. His. Lordship took occa sion to observe, that as he understood the present Act would expire to-morrow, he certainly was desirous, as the subject was one of great public ani private importance, that a Bill may be passed for its renewal until the next Session of Parliament, early in which it was his intention to move for the appointment of a Committee for the full investigation of the subject.—The Peti tion being read, was ordered to lie on the table. Two Private Bills were brought up from the Commons by Mr. llousLon and Mr. DAVENPORT, and read a first tine. The Marquis of LA NSDOW N presented a Petition from the Insolvent Debtors in the Borough Jail of Liverpool, expres sive of their apprehension of the discontinuance of the Insol vent Debtors' Act, and earnestly praying for its renewal. On this occasion the Noble Marquis said a few words, similar in purport to what had been expressed by his Noble Friend (Lord Auckland). The Petition was ordered to lie oh the table; as were a few others, presented by the Earl of CAR: A R VON, from certain .E.trislies in tilt: County of Devon, on a subject of a local nature. Adjourned till to-morrow. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Several Members were sworn. Lord MOR PETH appeared at the Dar with the Answer of her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent, to the Address of Condol,nce upon the death of the late Duke, which had been voted by the House. Her Royal Highness felt deeply sensible of the kind sympatii7 which ha d . been expressed by the House, for which she returned her most grateful thanks. Mr. BENNET' . presented a Petition from several Freeholders, inhabitants of the &and of Cape Breton, in North America, complaining that though they had been nnder the immediate g .vernment of Nova Scotia for several years, they had been lately transfer red by the British Government to a foreign State —(the United State). They denied the right of the British Government to tran3ter any of his Maj.:,ty's subjects to the rule of any foreign Power, withcut their own consent. Such consent they 1:.4.1 not given. lle (Mr. Bennett; did not know whether the aLee:ttiors in the Petition were or were nut true ; the case which it stated was a hard one, and if upon inquiry it was found c wrect, it ought to be rirr.edied.—The Petition was then read, and laid on the table. A Petition was presented from 'he Insolvent Debtors con fined in prison in Liverpool, praying for the eontimiation of the Insolvent Debtors' Rill.—Laid on the table. Mr. Alderman WOOD withdrew his motion concerning the employmeet of the Poor upon Dann-Aloe Forest, as he under st•ood that other persons, with the approbation of an illustrious personage, were makiog arrangements for the application of the grant which that ilhistriotts per tonage had made of this forest. Sir ROBERT WILSON begged leave to ask if the Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite could give any information to the Muse as to the number of Arms which had been st ized by night and day since the enactment of the Bill for that purpose' ?dr. B. BATIICRST replied, that he was nut aware any re turn had beets made to the Ilorne Office upon the subject. Ile was, therefore, uuable to give the Hoeourahle. Member the in formation he required. Mr. LUSHINGTON brought op a Rcturn of the amount of sill Treasury 1312 s bsued within a certain period fur the service of Ireland, which, ail nn the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the' Exerinoecrt, was ordered to be referred to the Committee of Sapply. Mr. SCARLETT moved the Order of the Day for the Se cond licading of the Local JuristLetious Bill. II.: btatt . d, that the object of the 13111 was to enable Magistrates in local jurisdic tions to commit for capital crimes to the jail of the county in which their local jurisdiction was. At present, Magistrates whose powers were limited within a small jurisdiction, could commit only to the jail within that jurisdieton. It would be a great convenience in the course of public justice, if such Magis trates were enabled, in capital cases, to commit to the county jail, to bind over prosecutors and witnesses, in order that the persons so committed might be tried at the ensuing I.Luarter Ses sion-, in places where no Assizes were held. After a few observations from a Member, who wished the ptovisions of the Bill to he more extensive, the Bill was read a seconi time, and committed. Some trivial Aim odments were added. The Report was brought up, and the Bill ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. The CHANCELLOR t,f the EXCHLQUF:R obtained leave to bring in a Bill to continue such Bills as would expire b, fore the meeting of the oext Parliament. He did this on the precedent of an Act of the Ist of George 11. Ile then brought in the Bill, which was read a first and second time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow. Lord A LTIIORPL gave notice, that on the motion for going into the Ceimmittee on this Bill, he should move that it be an i:.‘troction to the Committee to include the present Insolvent Daloors'Act among those which this Bill was intendedto continue. 'the Amendments to the Irish election Poll Bila were read a third time, and ordered to he engrossed. DROITS OF TUE ADMIRALTY. Mr. BROUGHAM, seeing a Right Honourable • • Member in his place, took this opportunity of call ing the attention of that Right Honourable Gentle :ll,ln and of the House, to a subject which was not without importance. lie was desirous now of moving for certain accounts, to which, as no objection was entertained against their production at a former pe riod, when they were less wanted, he took it for granted that no opposition was now meant to be of fered. It would be recollected, that early in the Session of 1812, he (Mr. Brougham) brought on the subject, which, whether it was estimated in a politi cal or a financial point of view, was deserving of the most set ions consideration. He alluded particularly to certain funds which had been deemed to be under the peculiar controul of the Crown, and not of Par liament—he meant the Droits of the Admiralty. It was true, that these funds existed chiefly in a time of war, but to them were to be added one or two minor branches, which made the whole amount to a large sum. When lie brought the subject before the House, lie urged the propriety of placing these funds snore within the controul of Parliament ; and the ex pediency of what he urged was not denied by Mr. Percival. But that Right Honourable Gentleman then said, that upon the accession of his late Ma jesty, certain arrangements, in which these funds were inchided, were made, and that it was not fit to break in upon them, by renewing any discussions with regard to them while these arrangements sub sisted. But Mr. Percival allowed, that as soon as these arrangements ceased, on the demise of the Crown, then the time for renewing the subject would arise. That time had now arrived. It was agreed upon all hands, that the disposal of these funds ought to 6e • placed upon a more constitutional ground—that the amount -and application of therif ought to be broaght mo, e within the knowledge and coatroul of Parliament. The only dispute was, as to the time when such' an arrangement could properly be executed, and he presumed that there would be no hesitation in redeeming tke pledge which had been given. He then moved, " That an humble Address be presented to his Majesty, praying that his Majesty would order to be laid before the House an account of the total produce of allfunds at the disposal of the Crown, and not usually deemed to be at the disposal of Parliament since the accession of his late Majesty, distinguishing the amount of the Droits of the Admiralty, and of the Droits of the Crown, ,ef the Four and a Half per Cent. on West India Duties, and of the Scotch Revenue ; and also of all Funds not heretofore specified in the Returns to Parliament." The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought, that the question of these funds might - be ,more.properly, and more advantageously discussed when the House should be called upon to consider the general subject of the Civil List. At present, the Civil List was not before the House, and he should therefore forbear from entering into the sub ject at any length. He, however, had no objection that an account of the Droits of the Admiralty should be laid before the House ; but as to the other funds, the Four and a Half per Cent. on West India Duties, and the Scotch Revenue, he was afraid that some delay might occur, if not some inconvenience, from producing accounts which were necessarily so disjointed. He would not, at the same time, resist the motion. Mr. BROUGHAM said, that he moved for the Accounts now, chiefly for the purpose of saving time when the Civil List should be brought before the House. It was essential to the dignity of the Crown, as well as to the respect. which the House owed itself, that as little delay as possible should occur in voting the Civil List, and the previous production of these Accounts would considerably facilitate that measure. The motion was then agreed to. MALT TAX IN SCOTLAND: - Mr. PRIMROSE presented a Petition from the Molesters, Distillers, and Brewers, of Strathaven, in Scotland, complaining of the additional Tax im posed upon Malt by the 59th of George HI. in which no provision was made for excepting Scotland from the full payment of the duty, although, upon all for mer occasions, the Tax upon Malt in that part of the United Kingdom was less than in England. They complained that the Act was passed without any in formation of such a measure having been given to them—that they were thus deprived of an opportu nity of having their claims discussed; and they sub mitted, that if the Tax were in future to be equalized in the amount, it would fall heavier upon them than upon the maltsters, distillers, and brewers of Eng land, because the grain in Scotland was much infe- 1 rior to that produced in the south. Lord A. HAMILTON bore testimony to the ex istence of the grievance complained ef in the peti tion. The barley of Scotland was so much inferior to that of England, that it was always considered in the arrangement of the duties, until the Act of last Session was passed. That Act equalized the duty, and the result was, that the growth of barley and oats Wab altogether suspended. The House would perhaps be surprized to hear, that the tax ex ceeded the cost of the article itself—(Hear, hear). — Ile hoped that the Right Hon. Gentleman would afford some information to the House upon the subject. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, he had no objection that the petition should be laid upon the table, nor would he refuse to go into an • inquiry upon the subject, .if it should be brought before the House. The petition. was laid on the table, and ordered to be printed: • ••• • • moTix . x. ACT. Lord PA LMER'STO'morgfor leave to bring in a Bill to continue tbesiolis6ily Act of last Session, from the 24th March to' the 244 h June next. He would not now enter int - daily lengthened detail upcn the subject of . the Military Establishment, as the whole question would come before the new Parlia ment. He should merely observe, that his motion could scarcely give rise to any discussion, as it did not contain any recital of numbers. Colonel DAVIS could not let the motion of the Noble Lord pass in total silence, lest he and his ft lends should be supposed as giving sanction to the existence of the present Military Establishment, hich he thought much too large.. At was to be wished that Ministers, had condescended to give some explanation of the .grounds upon which they desired the continuance of so large a body of mili tary in a time of profound peace. .11e protested against the proceeding now resorted to by the Noble Lord. By the Mutiny Act of last Session, the House sanctioned the continuance of nearly 1,260 men, who, it seas then said, were about to be disbanded ; but that the disbanding would require time. But the short Bill which the Noble Lord now proposed, as it would continue, this last Mutiny Act would also continue, he presumed, this extra number of men. With regard also to the 11,000 men added to the' Army Establishment last November, he was anxious to know what necessity there was for them now.— The country was perfectly tranquil ; and, therefore, supposing they bad been called for by reason of the discontents which existed, as those discontents now disappeared, so also should disappear the force which they created. He, for one, however, denied that even at the height if -the agitation which prevailed, there was any n ecessity for an addition to the mili tary force. Ile authors of those tumults would, if left to themselves, have finally accomplished their own overthrow. The tide of public opinion had turned against them—the misled mechanics and wea vers were beginning to perceive the folly of wasting their time at public meetings, and listening to in flammatory discourses, when they ought to be pro viding for the support of their respective families.— He would not be understood to say, that the Govern ment was not bound to suppress sedition wherever it appeared, and to check the progress of blasphemy. But he thought the civil power was quite sufficient, and it stood in need of no assistance from the mili tary. He was one of those who wished to see the military establishment reduced to the smallest possi , ble scale. There should, perhaps, remain as much of it asin eyery district might be sufficient to, form , a rallying point in time of danger—a nucleus, as it were, on which a force might be formed whenever it was necessary to the safety of the country. As much as possible should be' entrusted to the civil power. In Scotland it was well known that a large and populous district was last year discontented. — Indeed, an opposition to Government was more firmly organized there than in Manchester, or in any other of the disturbed districts. Yet it was also known that there were not more than fifteen or six teen hundred military in that country, and that these, seconded by the civil power, wete quite sufficient to suppress any tumultuary effort. In a constitutional point of view this was a subject of the first import ance, and it was also deserving of consideration sofar as expense was concerned. Intending, however, as he did, to bring the subject more fully before the House: if he should possess a seat in the new Partia ment, he thought it unnecessary now to proceed fur ther than to repeat his protest against the motion. • Mr. CALCItAFT joined his Honourable Friend in protesting against this proceeding, which was con trary to all precedent upon former demises of the Crown. He could not see the propriety of such a speedy dissoluti:,n of Parliament, at a time when a great deal of important public business remained to be transacted. Did it become the Representatives of the People in that House, to turn their backs upon the Petitions which had been presented from several parts of the country, complaining of severe distress ? Did it become them to pass to an adjournment, when such weighty matters were presented to their consi deration, as were contained in the Petition of the Merchants of London, presented at the close of the early portion of the Session? Having adjourned over to the 15th of February, in the mean time it pleased HEAVEN to release the late King from his sufferings here, and when the House met again, as by law it was commanded to do, it was told that it had but a few days to survive, and instead of attend ing to business, .the House was told that Parliament was forthwith to be dissolved. Thus the months usually devoted to the dispatch of business, January, February, March, and April, shall have been spent without any public affairs being transacted. Now it appeared, that all those affairs were to be deferred to a time when it would be difficult to obtain a full attendance of Members; though formerly there was no hesitation in going into them immediately upon the demise of the Crown. He could not but suspect that there was some latent reason for postponing all the important business, which it was exuected would have been brought forward—he meant the settlement of the Civil List, and of the Establishments of the country. Much was said of economy ; but he suspect ed that something was to be proposed, the voting for which might make Gentlemen uneasy in the presence of their constituents—(Hear, hear) : —The Military Establishment was much too large—indeed so large, that he trusted the House would never agree td its continuance, if it were now proposed ; and this, among the rest, perhaps one of the reasons why/it was to be submitted to a new Parliament. . Lord PALMERSTON thought that by refraining from gging into the subject at length, he had best consulted the convenience of the House. As to the augmentation of the Army, he would appeal for its justification to the opinion of the whole country, and he was sure that if Government had not exerted the rigour which was then called forth, they would have been guilty of a dereliction of the duties imposed upon them for the protection of the properties and lives of his Majesty's subjects. He believed that general approbation was also bestowed upon the other Legislative measures which were adopted in the early part of the Session—( Hear, hear).—As to the dissolution of Parliament, he, for one, thought that much inconvenience would arise from protract ing the sitting of Parliament under existing circum stances—(Hear, hear). Mr. HUNIE wished that the Noble Lord had can. didly stated whether the condition of the country re quired the continuance of the whole of the present Military Establishment. The House should recol lect that that establishment, as it now existed, created an expense to the country of about £11,000,000. He expressed a hope that some Gentleman would move for the reduction of the 11,000 men voted last Session, that the question might be fairly brought before the House of the propriety of supporting, in the present circumstances of the country, so great a Military Establishment. Mr. CROKER said, that the House had voted the men and money for the whole year, and that it was the most delicate mode of proceeding, and the one most consistent with ordinary practice, to renew the Mutiny Bill by a continuing Act, as was now proposed.—Leave was given to bring in the Bill. WRITS BILL. Lord JOHN RUSSELL moved the second read ing of the Bill for suspending the Writs to authorize the Election of Representatives for the Boroughs of Camelford, Barnstaple, Penrhyn, and Grampound. Sir C. BURRELL expressed his approbation of the course pursued by a Noble Lord on this subject, in which he was confident he he should be joined by the Country at large, and trusted that the Bill would meet with the same liberal treatment in another place. Mr. CALCRAFI' thought it quite disorderly to speak of what fate the Bill was likely to meet else where. It was likewise impossible to tell it, what ever assurance the Noble Lord might give. The passing the Bill, he conceived, was only likely to im pose upon the understanding of tke country, as if all that supported it were in earnest with regard to the great principle on• which it was founded. Be sides all the Boroughs were not under the same cir cumstances in the eye of the Legislature. The Lords had examined evidence in the case of Barnstaple ; but it was not likely they would pass a Bill relative to Grampound, Penrhyn, and Camelford, on which cases they had received no information. It would be quite impossible, when the House should be dis solved, to have any evidence in that respect. He was, 'however, far from approving of the circnm stances connected with these Boroughs ; but he wished to be in earnest. He wished to see not merely the Writs suspended, but all inquiries relat ing to them properly laid open and decided upon.— He was of opinion that a better course of proceeding in this case might have been pointed out, than that now brought forward. It was not consistent with the character and dignity of the . House of Commpns to refer a question, involving its own privileges; to the discussion of another branch of the Legislature. He would rather vote kir an Address to the Throne : this would prove that they were in earnest, and would afford a specimen of what the House meaat to dd with respect to places so circumstanced.— , There seemed to be surprise Manifested at his Making this proposition, as if they were thereby to throw themselves and their rights upon the Crown ; but,he did not think the principle was open to such an objection. If the measure was to be by a Bill, that Bill must have the assent of the Crown before is tould pass into a law ; and, besides that, it must . depend upon the concurrence of another branch of the Legislature, whether it was to be allowed to come ..‘ to the Crown for its assent. This was giving that other branch an unnecessary power of interference with the rights and privileges of that House. It had beefi held by grave authorities in Parliament, that with rt.: . sped to suspending Writs, the House shottlerathet . rely updn itself, than call upon the assistance of ano ther branch of the Legislature. The step taken* • Ministers, of a premature dissolution, prevented arc' investigation taking place in a regular war, and , upon oath. Under such circumstances, he saw no course so eligible as that of Addressing the 'Throne ' to suspend those Writs. His opinion upon this sub ject was supported by a book of great authority— Hatsell recommended such a mode in all cases of • suspending and superseding Writs ; and unless he (Mr. Calcraft) had some such authority to rely upon, he should not have thrown out the suggestion; strongly as he was convinced of the propriety of it. As to the principle of the Bill, it had his most de cided concurrence. . Mr. C. WY NN expressed his surprise at the sug gestion made by the lion. Member (Mr. Calcraft) ; such an Address as that which he proposed, was calculated to overthrow the Constitution and whole frame of Parliament. It would be a distifict :admis sion, that the Crown had a right to suspend ail writs, or prevent the issuing of them altogether. This was not a new idea, he remembered that it made part of a plan of Reform, which had been proposed some time ago, by a society, called the Hampden Club. By that plan the Crown was called upon, on its own authority, to suspend writs for certain places, as the plainest and simplest mode of rectifying the general system of Representation. But persons th::t p:opo sed such things could know but little of the comzi tuticui of Parliament. The fact was, that the power of suspending, writs had been long since claimed and exercised by the Crown—and it did take upon it to discontinue sending writs in many instances. Par liament at length took up the subject, insisted the t the writ was a writ of ritiht, which :he Borough could demand. Upon this principle it acted in the case of some Boroughs, so treated by the Crown, one of which was IVendover. The unjust assump tion of the prerogative was obliged to give way : the places-which the Crown had stript of their fran chises, were ordered to elect Representatives ; and it was on this memorable occasion, that John Hamp den was, for the first time, elected a Member of Par liament. It was his clear opinion, that no subject should have his tight taken away, without. the con sent of King, Lords, and CommonS. He Would go as far as any man in the maintenance of the just rights of the people, provided they were not exer cised beyond legal bounds. The House had a right to demand of the Speaker, as its officer, to issue writs; but it could riot in the same way, order the Lord Chancellor, when the authority of the House was suspended by dissolution; but a subsequent House of Commons might impeach. It was not the Lord Chancellor that issued writs to the Boroughs, but to the Sheriff, ordering him to issue his precept to the Boroughs, to return Members to Parliament. He contended, that it was not necessary for.the passing of the Bill to suspend the writs, that the. Boroughs which it affected should have been proved guilty of bribery and corruption. It was sufficient to strew that the House of Commons had thought it neces sary to adopt a measure far regulating the elective franchise as exercised in those Boroughs—to warrant the necessity of that measure, the evidence was quite sufficient. The Honourable Member concluded by referring to the evidence, as proving that if actual corruption was not proved, enough was shewn to manifest an implied condition, inconsistent with a fair exercise of the elective franchise in the Boroughs affected by the Bill. Mr. MARRYATT said he concurred with the Noble Lord (Lord John 'Russell) in thinking it 147 cessary that corrupt practices in Boroughs ought to be punished in an exemplary manner; but 'then evi dence ought to be clearly furnished, and the House ought to proceed upon it in a deliberate and grave manner. An Honourable Member had given notice, in the first instance, of a Bill for suspending the Writ for the Borough of Camelford. There appeared to be a very great discordance in the evidence before both Houses ; yet now it was thought proper that a Bill should be introduced, by which all were to be involved in a sweeping sentence. In one respect, he could not approve of the conduct of the Noble Lord who had introduced the Bill: in the first instance, he had included three Boroughs; but afterwards, by the suggestion of an Honourable Meniber, he had added the fourth. If it were wrong to include the fourth, in the irst instance, it would not be right now ; but he had given up his own deliberate judgment. to the suggestion of another. The Honourable Member then remarked upon the probable effect of the pu-; nishment already inflicted upon one-half of the vo ters of Grampound. They and two Members of the House had been convicted of bribery and corrup tion, and punished with great severity. The effect of their rigorous sentence would in all probability be the suppression of improper practices at Electioni in that Borough. . It was not likely that any person who wished to become a Member of that House would expose himself now to the visitation of such a penalty, with -the example before his eyes. Indeed, if he (Mr. Marryatt) were to be asked, where, at the ensuing Election, there was likely to be found the utmost purity, he' would lay his hand upon those Bo roughs—(A laugh). The Honourable Member cone eluded, by observing, that a House which was so to• nacious of its own rights and privileges, ought not to suspend or abridge those of others upon light or insufficient grounds. Mr. BROUGHAM expressed a doubt with re spect to the propriety of acceding to the Motion of the Noble Lord, which doubt, be said, was founded upon the great importance of the measure. It re quired but little sagacity to fiu4 out that they could not enter with the calmnesi and deliberation that it a . - 0, I