Star. — London, England, 1820-05-12 00:00:00

PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF COMMONS, IktAY Seretal Nlembers took the oaths and their seats. Mr. Alderman WOOL) presented a Petition for a Bill to re move Slaves from the Island of Antigua to Sierra Leone.--Or dered to be referred to a Committee. AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS. A Petition was presented from certain Occupiers of Land in Wiltshire, complaining of Agricultural Distress.—Laid on the table. Mr. CIIILDE presented a similar Petition from the Land Owners of the County of Salop.—Laid on the table. Mr. THEM AYNE presented a similar Petition from the Lsnd Owners oT the County of Cornwall. They stated, that the late Corn Bill totally failed in its object, and they prayed that their Petition might be referred to a Committee.—Laid on the tabl e . Two similar Petitions were presented from Land Owners in Dorsetshire.—Laid on the table. ) similar PetitiOn .--- N;;; presented, by Mr. DI:CDA LT, from Oecnpiers of In. in Warwick,hire.—Laid on the table. Sir E. K presented similar Petitions from the following places :—Feversham, Sandwich, and two from Ashford.—Ordered to He on the table. _ _ A simiLtr Petition WA also presented from East Kent.—Or dered to lie on the table. LONDON POST DFFIDE. Sir W[LLIAII CURTIS brought up the Report of the S:.lect Committee appointed to examine the matter of the Petition from the City of London, for the purpose of raising additional supplies to build the Post Office. The Honourable Baronet moved— " That the Report be referred to a Committee of the whole House." Mr. 11. SUMNER hoped the House would take into consideration, that this Report now recommended the raising of a sum of £lOO,OOO, after a sum of 4.:210,000 was expended in clearing the scite for the new Post Office. He begged the House to remark, that if the proposed sum of £33,000 were to be drawn from the Orphans' Fund, which was a Fund raised by a duty on all coals imported into London ; if the recommendation of the Committee were car ried into effect, it would make necessary an addition of one shilling duty on each chaldron, to be paid not only by the inhabitants of the Metropolis, but also those of the surrounding Counties. For his part, he could not forbear from expressing his opinion that the means heretofore provided for the purposes of the new building, had been prodigally and wastefully expended. He thought the House would not do its duty unless they required a detailed account of the expenditure, as well as the item of the estimates for which a new grant was demanded. The Ilonottnable Member then moved an Amendment to the original motion, « That a Select Committee be appointed to examine the accounts of the expense;, and the esti mates of the proposed expenditure, and report their opinion on the same." Sir \V. CURTIS said, that it was by no means difficult to account for the manner in which the money had been applied. Unfortunately, in this in stance, as is many others, the expenditure exceeded the estimates—( ,4 laugh).—The Committee for building the Post Office found that they wanted money to proceed with the erection, and it was there fore they came to look for the interposition of Par liament—(Hear). Mr. Alderman WOOD would not object to the production and strict examination of the accounts of expenditure; iu fact, they had been furnished already to a considerable extent. He begged the Hon. Mem ber who proposed the Amendment, and who appeared very properly so careful of his constituents, to con sider that the addition of the shilling duty on coals, which he complained of, would not take effect until after the lapse of thirty years. He would assure the Hun. Member, the new building was far from being a City job; on the contrary, the money now expended had opened a street hitherto impassable by carriages, and it was intended to expose, in one of the finest openings in town, a full view of St. Paul's. So far from the Corporation of London having any interest in the continuance of the duty on coals, it was a fact that they paid every year 12,000/. while it was in existence. The Hon. Member had not been by any means correct in his statement, that 33,0001. were to be raised by means of the tax on coals.— This was not the case. The sum of 27,0001. would be produced for the benefit of the new building, as soon as it was completed. It was to be remembered that the 'cause of the excess of expenditure over the estimates was this, that a part of the scite to be pur chased was Church property, and the owners, of course, were awarded by the juries a considerably larger sum respectively than the surveyor estimated. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought, that nothing had been stated to warrant the conclusion, that there had been any waste of money. At the same time he was of opinion, that it would be proper to appoint a Committee for the examination of the accounts. He suggested that there was some irregularity in the Amendment. The SI'EAKEIt said, that by a verbal alteration the Amendment would be quite regular, and if car ried, it would leave the Report precisely in the same circumstance as it would remain in if there had been no motion made by the Hon. Baronet. Mr. 11. SUNINER said, he thought it was usual, that upon a Report from a Select Committee, leave' would be asked to bring in a Bill. If this had been the course pursued, be was determined to have r. - :et it with a motion to the effect of his present Amendment. The Amendment was then put and carried.—The Committee was to consist of the Members for the Cities of London and Westminster, and three for the I tome Counties, the CHANCELLOR of the Emelt EQUF:It, and Mr.BaNices. COURT OF EXCHEQUER, SCOTLAND. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ob serving that a motion of the Noble Lord opposite (Lord A. Hamilton) stood for that day, requested t.l.at he would postpone it until Monday next, in consequence of the unavoidable absence until that day of the Noble Secretary of State, who was anxious' to be present at the discussion of the motion. Lord A. HAMILTON was ready to yield to the request of the Right Hon. Gentleman, upon the con-' dition that his motion would have the precedence of all others on that day. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that so far as he and his colleagues were concerned, t.,e Noble Lord might expect the fulfilment of the soudttion. Lord A. HAMILTON said, that as he understood tl.ete %vete several Members who would be content to s o me to the proiluction of the copy of the appoint . • meet, provided the motion di ' d not involve the discus sion of the meriti—he took this opportunity to an nounce, that it wog his intention to include a discus sion of the merits in the motion which he purposed to submit on Monday next., Mr. WILDMAN presented a-Petition from certain inhabi tants of Essex, stating the great inconvenience to many of the inhabitants in consequence of the distance of the place for hold ing the Quarter Sessions, and praying for leave to bring in a Bill, enabling the Magistrates to hold Quarter Sessions in two places for the same division. Admiral II A.II.VEY said, that this Bill, he was sure, would meet with the determined opposition of the Magistrates. Mr. 1). W. HARVEY thought that when the merits of the Bill came to be examined, it would be .found that the majority of the Magistrates would not be found hostile to it. Admiral HARVEY said, he was present at the last Sessions, when twenty-two Magistrates were against, and only five for it, being more than four to one.—The Petition was ordered to be hid on the table. Mr. IiON Y WOOD presented a Petition from certain Owners and Occupiers 'if Land in the county of Kent, praying for the in terference of the Legislature in their behalf. The lion. Gentle ' man said, he would not now enter into this important question, but would merely express a hope that a subject of such weitht would meet with the attention of the House.—The Petition was laid on the table. Lot dJA ES TO W NSII END presented a Petition from the Borough of Helston, for leave to bring in a Bill for the better recovery of small debts. ELECTION PETITIONS. • The SPEAKER said, if there were any Election Petitions, this was the time for presenting them. Petitions were immediately presented from the follosiing places :—Wallingford, Town of Cambridge, Chester, Aberdeen, St. Ives, Tregeny, Ipswich, liossrney, Wooton B asset, Not tingham, two from - Maidstone, Elgin, Cokhester, Bishop's Castle, Grantham, Truro, and Coventry. The SPEAKER said, the Petitions from Truro and Bishop's Castle were double Returns, and these were, by the Resolutions .come to on the first day, to be taken before the others. These then, in the first instance, were to be put into the glass by them. selves, and whichever should be drawn would be taken first. The Papers were then put into the glass, and Bishop's Castle being first drawn out, Th' SPEAKER said, the earliest day on which that Petition could be taken into consideration, was Friday the 26th of May. That was not the ordinary day fur balloting, and as fixing it for that day would leave the parties at liberty not to enter into their recognizances till the night before, if they were not then entered into, the• House would be put to the inconvenience of assembling in unusual numbers to no purpose. If the Petition were not taken then, it could not be taken before Monday, the 29th, but on that day the House did nut sit, and for Tuesday, two Petitions were already fixed. It was finally fixed that the Bishop's Castle Petition should be taken on Tuesday the SOth of May. The Truro Petition was then drawn forth, and the Ballot fixed for Thursday the Ist of June. A Petition from Petersfield, against a Member returned for two places, vim then presented, which was ordered to be bal lotted for on Tuesday, the 6th of June. The St. Ives Petition was fixed for the Bth of June. The others were then drawn from the glass, and the Ballots fixed for the following days: Nottingham, Tuesday, J une 20. War wick shire, Same day. Maidstone, Thursday, June 22. Cambridge, same day. Colchester, Tuesday, June 27. Wooton Basset, same day. Elgin, Thursday, June 29. Coventry (from Mr. Cobbett), same day. Grantham, Tuesday, July 4. City of Chester, same day. Wallingford, Thursday, July 6. Aberdeen, same day. Aldborough (Yorkshire), Tues day, July 11. Bossiney, same day. Tregony, Thursday, July 13. Ipswich, same day. LONDON BRIDGE. Mr. Alderrnan WOOD gave notice, that he would, to-mor row, move for the appointment of a Committee to inquire into the state of Lordon Bridge. GALWAY ELECTION. Mr. DAWSON presented a Petition from Mr. V. Blake, setting forth that Mr. Prendergast not having taken his seat, and Petitioner not knowing his address, had not , been able to serve him with the notices necessary to be served, where a re turn was contested. He therefore prayed that the time for entering into his recognixances might be enlarged, or some other step taken that the House might think fit. On the motion of Mr. W. WYNN, the Resolution come to by the House, relative to Contested Elections, on the 11th of February, 1819, was read by the Clerk. The Agent for the Prosecution was then called in and exa mined by the &TARSI. lie stated his name to be Wn.r.ran G aux:: and that he was Agent to Mr. V. Blake.— lle was then ordered to withdraw. Mr. DAWSON moved that further time should be granted to Mr. V. Blake to give the notices required, till Monday sett night.—The motion was agregd to. DUTY ON WOOL. Mr. S. WORTLEY said, that in the course of the evening sever al Petitions bad been presented from persons connected with the Agricultural Interest, praying for relief. He had now to present a Peti tion from a different class of persons—the inhabitants of a number of populous villages in the West Riding of Yorkshire, who also prayed that the House would consider their case, and afford them assistance. One passage of this Petition he would take the liberty of reading to the House, because it shewed the depla brable situation in which those persons were placed.— He here begged leave to observe, that' the Petition came from a body of people, than whom no men in the kingdom were more ready to support the present order of things. The Petitioners stated, that the pressure of distress, arising from want of labour, was great without example. This fact they could not prove more clearly than by referring to a recent in vestigation of the distresses in their parish, from which it appeared, that out of 8000 persons, 7000, after having paid theiirent, received only 110. per week. From this it was evident that the greater part of the population were in a state of absolute pau perism. They, therefore, prayed that the House would take the state of the country into consideration, and devise some mode of relieving them, particularly with reference to the T ax on Wool, which they con ' ceived to be the great cause of their distress. The Pe tition, which was from Kirkheaton, in the West Riding ,of Yorkshire, was then read and laid on the table. EXCIIEQLTER ' BILLS. Mr. MABERLY reminded the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that last June he had proposed to the House a plan for raising the Sinking Fund from £2,000,000 to £5,000,000. To effect this, the Right Hon. Gentleman had proposed several taxes, many of which pressed heavily on the middle and the lower classes, one of which, though it did not imme diately press upon them, was ultimately felt most severely by those classes—he meant the Tax on Wool. By taxing the raw material on which, when imported, many of our Manufacturers were usefully employed, the lower classes were greatly injured. The Right Hon. Gentleman. had been told that his taxes, as they pressed on the poor, who were unem ployed, must fail. But he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had been of a different opinion. For the failure that had since taken place he did not blame the Chancellor of the Exchequer, as he was confi dent that he was sincerely anxious to see the Reve nue in a nourishing condition ; but he was a little surprised that he should come down as he had done in February, when he knew that the new duties, from , the state of the exports and imposts, had failed ; the exports having failed to the amount of £300,000, the. I imports to no less than £10,000,000, and state that • he expected to hare a clear Sinking Fund of £5,000,000. He must have known that the state of the exports and imports would in a great measure determine whether the new taxes would be produc tive or not, yet he had declared that he expected the Sinking Fund, on which he had previously calcula ted, when he knew that these had failed. The Re- venue in the year ending January 5, 1820, that wal the produce of .the year 1819, had been such, that when set against the expenditure, it left out a ba- , lance of £919,340 for a Sinking Fund. lie was not sure that there would be so much, for taking other circumstances into considera•..ion (which he particu larised) it would appear that there would remain hut • a balance of £395,316. At the time the statement was made it was very much doubted by the Honour • able Member for Winchilsea. Now, instead of £5,000,000, it was clear that the Right Hon. Gen tleman would have a very little Sinking Fund, or none. The Revenue of Great Britain appeared to have fallen off considerably in the last year, as com pared with the preceding year. The produce of the year ending the sth of April, 1819, had been £49,050,000. That fur the year ending April 3, 1820, was £ 48,208 , 000. It would therefore be seen, that there was a deficiency of no less than £838,388, and including the falling off on account of Ireland, be doubted not the total deficiency would exceed £1,000,000. It was of importance that the House should have their attention directcd to this subject. It was also to be remarked, that the unfunded debt ' had not been diminished, though a large sum had been voted for that purpose last year. It would be seen, that of the Exchequer Bills issued between, the sth January 1519 and 1820, there were Bills outstand ing to the amount of 1:9,698,0(X), notwithstanding £10,400,000 had been voted by the House to reduce the unfunded Debt. The Right (lon. Gentleman had taken the sum of £2,000,000 on account of the in terest of Exchequer Bills, but for the last twenty. one or twenty-two months, the interest on them had not been paid, and in the pi esent year it appeared that interest to the amount of £1,100,000 remained un satisfied. it must be clear to every tine, that if it was intended to maintain the public credit, the interest' on Exchequer Bills must be paid. He did not know that there had ever been so great an arrcar on Ex chequer Bills before. How this could be made a part of our permanent system he could not under stand; he would rather that it should only be tem porary. He objeced to the calls made on the Bank for advances to cover the deficiencies of the Consoli dated Fund. If this practice were sanctioned by the House, the Consolidated Fund, it might be expected, would always be found in arrear. If the Revenue went on as it was going on now, at the end of the July Quarter there might be a deficiency of £2,000,000. — He meant that the charges on the Consolidated Fund would exceed its income by £2,000,609; and this would make it convenient to call on the Bank for new advances. At a future period, from the Bank being obliged to pay in gold, or other circumstances, they might be unable to meet these demands; the consequences would be serious, and, therefore, he considered it most dangerous to pursue the course of which he complained—that of covering the arrears' of the Consolidated Fund by advances from the Bank. To him it appeared necessary to meet in earnest the difficulties of the Country—not by taxes, that must fall on the lower classes of the community, or on the raw materials of the manufactures, which must throw them out of employ, but by a solid tax on property. If a tax to the amount of £10,000,000 were raised on real property and the Assessed Taxes given up, this would be a boon to the middling classes who were at present severely burdened. It ever there was a period when property could be fairly taxed it was the present. Could any man say that there was any comparison between the price paid for corn now, and that for which it might be purchased if the ports were open? Supposing the effect of the present system to impose but an addition of £1 per quarter, and taking the annual consumption of corn at 15,000,000 quarters, here was a tax of £15,000,000 paid, not to the Government but to the corn growers. The landed proprietor who shared this, and the stock holder, and the possessor of every other sort of pro perty, ought to be taxed, if taxes must be raised, as certainly they must, unless it were thought prudent to give up our public credit, which he did not sup pose would be thought good policy. The Assessed faxes might amount to J.:7,000,000-6y a Property Tax £10,000,000 might be raised. But when he spoke of a Property 'fax, he did not mean an Income Tax. That he detested as much as any one could do. He would not tax trades, professions, and•income, but property and property alone. This, he thought, in the present state of the Country, was necessary, and he could see no other way out of our difficulties. He thought, that in the first instance, economy ought to be resorted to in every possible shape. Last year the Chancellor of the Exchequer had given them reason to hope that some inquiry into the drawback,. and bounties, which came to so large an amount, would take place. Out of £62,000,000 annually raised, but £52,000,000 found its way into the Ex chequer, the other £10,000,000 being consumed in expenses of collection, in drawbacks and bounties. He concluded by moving "for accounts of all Ex chequer Bills and Irish Treasury Bills outstanding on the sth-January, 1820, with the interest due thereon, separating the amount of the interest from the prin cipal of each." The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did Lot mean to follow the Honourable Gentleman through all the views which he had taken with re gard to the financial interests of the Country. Un-' doubtedly, he had introduced what must be a sub ject of great curiosity, but he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) should not feel himself justified in at pre- I sent disclosing what might be the intentions of Go vernment. The Honourable Gentleman had sup posed, that the late taxes had all proved deficient in their expected amount, but the papers already on the table led to a different conclusion. He applied this remark, in particular, to the amount of the Duties in Excise, and a part of which was forthcoming, hut not yet actually paid into the Exchequer. Taken into this view, the whole amount fur England alone was £2,190,000 upon three Quarters, being, on an average of the whole year, only £lOO,OOO short of' what was anticipatzd when these taxes were first pro posed. The deficiency actually experienced took place only in the Customs t but, even in that depart. ment, he now entertained a confident hope that the improvement would be as progressive as it was in' the Excise. The Hi:metre& Gentleman must he aware, that the practice was to pay the interest ol Exchequer Bills at the same time with the principal, and the present state of arrear was partly owing to the Bank having declined to receive interest on the Exchequer Bills in their possesyion. Though he could not hold out to the House any confident pectation on the subject, he still continued in the hope, that there rhipla ho, on the whole account of the year, a surplus of 1:1000,C00. Mr. JOHN SMITH did not mean to blame the Right Honourable Gentleman fur declining to stale the views which. the Treasury entertained upon this most important subject ; but he did think, that the present condition of our ri ti.MGCS cper'ated iniu riously in various respects. It was undeniable, that men of capital tr.n.e withdrawing it in .d 1 directions. Though done, perhaps, upon absurd surmises, or un founded alarm, these could be no question as to the fact. The only remark which he had to make on the suggestion of the I ionourahle Gentleman (Mr. Ma. berly), with regard to a tax on property, was, that every future tax ought certainly to be laid on those classes which could pay it. He sincerely trusted, that his Majesty's Ministers had in contemplation to introduce, during the present year, some fixed and permanent plan oftinancial policy. Mr. BARING was as anxious as any other Hon. Member could be to see a definite and permanent policy adopted ; to see, indeed, the country in an independent situation, which it never could be in its present financial circumstances. We were, however, so peculiarly placed, that it was very difficult to es timate correctly our own resources. He made this remark in candour and fairness to the Right Hon. Gentleman. Though sorry to learn, as a matter of information, be could easily conceive why a defi ciency should have taken place upon the last Quarter. IVhat he - dreaded was, lest the same uncertainty should attach to every future estimate of our Reve nue. Nothing, however, could be calculated oa, without a greater degree of quiet and subordination at present existed. In the present untbrtumate state of the country, he was averse to any decisive measure till he could sec the strength of our means. Labouring, as they did, under a w ant of credit and of confidence, from the s:ate of the country, he did not think that any decisive measure could at present be proposed. There was, indeed, plenty ! of money in the country, but would there be such a depression of stock if there was not a want of contidei,ce ? If there r. er e a Sinking Fundof 500,000,000 k—he meant a real Sinking Fund—it might be said that that would resle:e c: edit, and bring stocks to their proper price. The shaken state of the great interests of the coun try rnt(le it extremely difficult to adopt any decisive financial measure. Some other expedients, he under stood, were to be adopted, which he thought highly dangerous. He had understoird thit these were large drafts, for long periods of credit, drawn on the English treasury, and circulated abroad. He had been informed that there were drafts of this kind for three months in Paris . . This was an extremely ob jectionable expedient—it was of the same descrip tion as that of Mr. Pitt with Boyd, ss hich Mr. Piet was so much blamed for. If the Right lion. Gentleman would give the amount of such drafts, or consent to a motion, by him on the subject, he should advert no farther to it at present; bat it was an expedient practiied only in the greatest distress, and fur the purpose of raising money —(Hear).— Ile must say that he thought it extremely discre ditable—(Hear, hear). The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that Mr. Pitt's drafts in Hamburgh were of a diffefent description. The drafts at present cir culated abroad were made applicable .to the funds abroad. In a few months he would wind up the whole account, and then present to the House most regular and accurate accounts el all. Mr. GRENFELL observed briefly on the. large quantities of silver imported into this country, and the large drafts on the treasury of this country, arising from such imports. Mr. BARING said, that it was quite sufficient for him to hear the intention of the Right Hon. Gentle ' man to present the accounts. If the Right Hon. Gen t tleman hRd general bonds for money outstanding on the Continent, he would say, as far as he knew on the subject, that it was a measure extremely objection able ; and be had heard that there were drafts at three months circulated all over the Continent. The CHANCELLOR ofthe EXCHEQUER said, that those drafts were for silver imported into this country. Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, that he could never consent to the strengthening of the Funds at the ex pense of the community. If the Funds were im proved by fresh burdens on the country, that world be improving them at the expense of the other in tercets of the community. The stockholder already received increased value, for he had become a stock holder during a depreciated currency, and now he received increased value by means of the meliorated currency. No sacrifice ought to be made of the gi eat iaterests of the country for the benefit of the stock holder. The Commercial and Agricultural Interests were already in great difficulty, and their difficulties seemed not to be diminishing. He, therefore, must protest against any improvement of the Funds, at the expense of the landholder. Mr. MA BERM( said he rose chiefly to reply to the remarks of the Right Honourable Gentleman who had just sat down. His observations had no re ference whatever to the stockholder, but they had a reference to the country at large—(Hear, hefir).— Ilis object was to put the Sinking Fund and the Finances on a permanent and solid footin. Whig respect to the remark s o f th e Ch ance llo r o f the Es-. chequer, what he complained of was, that in le.• bruary List, when he knew the exi ectations which he had excited in the former year, and the impossi bility that the Revenue should amount to %%hat he had calculated—when, in fact, he knew that theUe venue for the Quarter ending the 5:11 of d.otuary,- 1820, was £:600,000 short of the corresponding Quarter in the preceding year, deducting the new Taxes—he complained that the Chaneetlor (.1 the . Exchequer had, with this knowledge, come down to the lions; and induced .the House to believe that the Sinking 1.1044 would amount to what he /lad held out on the former year. H e (Mr. M.therly) re collected that, in answer to a -question from the Member for Winchelsea, who afked if the Chancellor of the Exchequer could tell the House now thlt ther e ", would be :[clear surplus of ,115,00%000? the I:iyht im au ea he tar . e • n t ou • is< Suc le Avh Ina 1,0 dec • wit tua all'tll; thei Ger not incc cr.l( anti Ch the Irel 1,0( Ayer ferr and Cus If tl Ah•ot no mot for sucl on low, 1 fur then sth traul L whit • 111 and to In Itl offs read • Sc JONI Plea the be fc ime t 1 Ai r. the for slot •ye.a Sin incl fall sho gre Prc P" Per a n fesi 1101 sid du • col on the thi sai an tin on . tlr thi ah C 3 ex w. ref Pi lo •