Star. — London, England, 1829-04-06 00:00:00

itki lAA 4'. I.i I. 1141.1 -'•ii •. i• %AC.. Alaii lie lii.pee qt. :tlir Milled be treed fro n it that he had with era an to pritate Isle. • N"vert elates, it did seem to be ght every Placation thing in Parliament to have a d„wirehe ohiChancellor. "I, beings to my mind,"con , tinued theNohlrE4ll, "an anecdote which perhaps, spoor 'tbi.,erious eine damn would be hater to omit. However, with the patience of the Noose, I will mention it.—l wa• pace at Bulb* with my ye- enable deceased friend,Lot d 'Therlow, who went them for the Issnefit of the water.. 41 veiled upon him one evening at the Inn where he ,eras sitting, when he told me he had heard that th re : wen -six or eight persons in the piece who meant to have a dash et the ex-Chancellor when in the b.th ben morning. I asked hiM what course he intended to take; and he replied prudently, that he meant to keep tour of their way. I'he misfortune is, that I have not been table to keep out of the way of those who hive been de- Ulnas to have a dash at me"—(Hear a:.d laugh et). Hr bow came to 'hearer 1807, when a new Admini.tration brat formed under thciimstanees of clamour which many ovelit %Menthes. The Sovereign then on the tin one, his la-i venerable and beloved mister, would not give his Royal assert to thE Bill for the emancipation of the Ito-risen Catholics: it was his opinion that he could hot give that assent canscienti , ugly, and he was 'psi the only man in his dominions who entertained that sentitnent. In the year 1817 his Noble Friend (if he would permit him to call him so) was a Member of his Majesty's Government. They had been accused of doing in 1817 what they had refined to do in 1807. — The fact was thia It was his opinion-apethaps an in conect one, for lawyers sometimes make mistikes—sthat persons qualified to serve in the army in Ireland § being, as military men, under the orders of the Ciown; were qualified to serve in the same capacity in England. I Was thought not safe to rest the matter on any less authority than that of an Act of Parliament, which was in ez ct accordance with his opinion. He hoped to be permitted to add this short remark, that in no part of these discussions had he ever stated his objections to go further than to resist the giving political power to the Roman Catholics by bringing them into Parliament, and allowing them to fill the great offices if Sate. Here the House would per haps allow him to state, very shortly, that he bete dismissed at once all consideration of the true intent and meaning of the coronation oath. It bad been said tonight that this was an extremely delicate qnestion. He thought so too; and he thought, likewise, that the envision of it belonged only to the Clown. They would, indeed, place his Majesty in a distressing situathe if, by passing this Bill, knnwintg his opinion to be adverse to it, they were to j lace upon him the whole weight and odium of refusal. He seas 'therefore inclined, at the present moment; on this point to say no mote than that, according to his*present opini , n, the obligation of the coronation oath must be settled between GOD and the King. It was not for him or f.r others to say that in their judgment his Majesty could not safely give his anent to this Bill, regard being had only to that 'acted obligation; whether he would or would not withhold his approbation was a matter he niu‘t decide, and he was sine he would decide conscientiouly. In so deciding he might °wools his opinion, and he hoped that hr would satistactotily overrule the opinions of all who on this point agreed with him. They now came to the con sideration of what aas the constitution of this cotta ry iu 1688; and Mir, he mat be allowed to say, that be cause fundamental laws were then passed, on eve'' , page of every statute of which it was said that they were to be permanent and established, be did not on that account deny the competence of Parliament to change those laws. The Legislature of that day thought to make a change might again put the Constitution in Weird, but he did not assert that such a change could not be made. He Maintained this, however, that look ing at the lSth Charles 11. the 25th Charles 11. and the SOth Charles li. the reclusion from Parliament operated by the last of these statutes. was in conformity with the true construction of the Acts of 1688, and with the Act of Union with Scotland, too, in the reign of Anne. These were meant to be the ruling and govern ing principles of the Constitution, until a strong ne cessity for altering it should be made apparent. — If; the gelid of the nation required a change, a change might be made; no man denied it; but the necessity must be established, and there ought to be no strong and reasonable apprehension for the consequences. The Comtitutioe of 1688 was the pride, honour, and glory of the country, rand they could nut Make an alteration' in it without, in some degree,altering the notions of the people as to its excellency. To produce doubt, alarm, and discontent among the people, was a practical evil which it was difficult to counterbalance by any theo retical good. The people were justly at:ached to the Constitution of 1688—they looked to it as the founda tion and bulwark of their freedom. If a part wets changed, they might change the whole, and that change they dreaded. Perhaps the state of the opinions of the people might be more manifest to one who bad risen from the people, and who had been long in communW cation with the people,the strength aid ornament of the Empire, than to most it their Lordships, the proprie- . ton of hereditary titles—(Hear). They felt it tat be their Lordships duty, and a duty the most paramount that they bad to execute, to' preserve in this Protestant kingdom the Protestant telogion. 'Not a syllable had fallen from him in' this or in any previous debate to show that—if the safety and honour of this Protestant, kingdombe Completely preinved—if they preserved a Protestant King, a Protestant House of Peels, a Pro testant House of Consume; and a Protestam Executive Governmenttheo, hr not make altentions' in the system which marlin d Wetter Wit:rides than they had yet possessed for-the Protestant religion: The securities offered wet e of two kinda.—first, tho-4 which belonged to the change as it may Opiate upon the minds oftbeßoman Catholics-2d, those suincb' are connected wittiihis Bill before us, and the ukhei enema& by which it is attended. Finer they bad pissed 'a- laii-to put down the Catholic Aiamiation; and he agree%l that it was due to the dig nity of Parliamnit, and thiVnat oral impulse of the great mind of the Noble trulti;tliit iiiieniscessiun should be made while that Assotiatitin existed, the charaiter which wastroly described'iti the pteamble of the-Billsl If that BM 'had' iti 'any way •afetteil 'the int-tidies it common law against the Association or` indiaiduals; it would wot operate as it was intended; . With regard to the Daft anctrisenient Bill; he held to be a oleko sine' or the utmost nioinent, and 'hi' was frie s ikor z denying the conspeteme of Peoliameiti to pllftj airs The Legislature had sanctioned' is ,Bill redwing the number of voter. ; Wished Noble Lords to con sider the :wore. or 1464 tfiriffeas, al that Bill, as it might oinnaste-up..ti other measures, aff:cting the pre. scot Conit•Int1011 . of Parliament. • Tn.t House, on ail seek ottihidris, rnicteded in a jodicial'aittrelVas in leplatille'eapac.ty Perin ed the piuitticlion i f evi dent:fist it. bar-41 tinct proof of the malt . , and extent If i4.e4wit.:.: 41 .,J it oi mid not act tiro the title pv4)&- 611117 .4 what may is may not be the tact. Hastng ate ' tei amid vow ei - cause We of 101 ers. betati:e :key theft& the preseht cesllifi.:4j taiu.lOub to the public mints!, t because their be N es • m be 10 10 PO • 41 1 • • • •,. • c•►nsiJrr boe•tbey piocer.J. esneinber that the !uncut condition of the uareise ..f the franchise might not arise from any fault in itself, but from a Want of discrimination in tlie 'jean! electors to make a choice for themselves. :The, might find it extremely dif6colt to say that they would' disfranchise a large population, and yet leave the state of the representation complete. He admitted that the evil was great, and that a remedy ought to he applied to u ; but when it was put to him whe.l e. the temovai of that evil should purchase this invabion of their Con- Mullion, he could not v.nsont to the latter part of the alternative. He hoped his memory did not mislead him when he said that, in opening the 801 l of relief now 'same them, the Noble Duke did nut even mention the Doblran chisement 13,11 Oil the securities offered by that n.ea-ure, his humble opinion was, that they were a perfect nullity, and it might de >r• ye conhideration what sem ities to have been inserted in their stead ; but if it be the plea- sere of the House to agree to the sec ind reading of the Bill, and to admit its principle, he would be content. on ' the detail , , to reserve himself to a future occisios. There is another difficulty (continued the Noble Lord) which presents itbei in the's. m •a•ui es, front which I find it iffiCUlt to extrtcate myself; and I candidly contras I csnuot accept even the less objectionable Mrasurg as the price of the other. That other measure 1 should have received with pleasure, and it is perfectly in the compe tence of Parliament to pass i., if soch a Ball should be considered expedient. On that Bill lam ready to say,' it it should be the pleasure of your Lordships to proceed n it, I shall reserve the delivery of my sentiments for a future opportunity. As far as I recollect. the Noble Doke in opening the Bill of Relief the other evening. did not make any allusion to the Disfranchise. meat Bill. It is germ ally considered by the advocates of the Relief Bill that ti e Bill fox the Disfranchisement of the Forty-shilling Freeholders would operate as a t security for the purity of the elective franchise in Imes land. As a security against the dangers which lap • prebend, neither th rt measure nor the precautionary clauses of the one befiire us are in my mind more than a mere nullity. It may be, ho wever, dem ving your Lords ships attenion, if yr u should agree with me that the se cori•ies are insufficient, to examine wh it ether securities ought to have been inserted in their stead. It it should be, your Lirdships pleasure this evening to agree to the se cond reacting of the Bill, and to admit its principle, should be content at a tutu e stage, when in the Cum oti tee, to sogge t such alterations as I humbly think will render the adoption of the principle less dungen:se. and so far lemoee some o the übjectir.ne which are re untitled against it by the real (rends of our Protestant Coneticution. From one task I feel myself altogether reVeved, becau e the 'illicit has bee., sits usiied with so touch ability. I shall leave the rap 'site': of the Acts of the Pa It ,aunts of England and Scotland up .n the statement of my Noble and Learned Fre id the Lind Chief Ju . i e of England—tit that argumentative and luminous statement it %sill be unnecessai y for me to add.' Hi. talents, charatte-, arid ability, entitle him to the highest ri sliect fit hi. opinions, and his seal( us con• sirtence and high moral teeling au.horised bins to de sgerate him tit as a ti tie frietul to civil and reliiii.nas liberty. Nor %hi uld the N:ble Erl (Grei) liiietakes offence at my N tble and Learned Friend's having as, tamed to himself that charatter. He eektidy meant mit to say that he was such a friend to civil tad religious 'liberty as 'het h ble there are some persons in the habit of descanting upcn civil and religious liberty 1 1 as something which they cannot enjoy under the pies slent form tit Government, or under our present coo -1 ekitution. It was with great pain that I felt tope* called upon by a sense of duty, in the course of the last year, to give my dissent to the repeal of the Test Act. The reason for my oppolition to that repeal was, that I considered it would endanger the Established Church et England. That opinion may be erroneous: I stated it with deep concern, but it governed me in the discharge of what I conscientiously con sidered to be my duty. The same reason operates with me now in te.pect to this Bill. I contend that the Established Church of Ireland cannot be in danger without some peril to the Established Church of England. It is the duty a Government to maintain a National Church ; nay, further, it ha. been my opinion ever, that it is its duty to provide for its subjects the best and purest system of Christianity possible: in this manner the State should support the Church, though not so the Church the Stott. Because I take it to be the duty of the State spontaneously and of itself m support an Established Chttich, independently of the 014:aisle of reciptocity, although there can be no doubt that there should subsist an alliance and strict union between both for purposes of mutuai.support. I have lived with the late Lord Hardwicke—l have lived with Lord Kenyon (for whom I ever entertained sentiments of the greatest respect and affection)—l have witnessed the exyression of their sentiments with that deference to which their profound talents en:itled them; I have also listened to the late Lord Edenborough when a member of the Cabinet, and prom nncing his opinions wi.h respect to the question of concession to the Catholics; one of his family has, however, seen reason to differ in sentiment (tom his progenitor. These are all great names, and they ate all of one opinion; they believed, and be lieve, that the connexion betwixt the Church and State ,was such, that it *I ught to ensure the nomination to di g . nified stations and political offices in the State to that class, or those classes of religious professors who were not adverse to the Established Church, and who yet were competent to give an enlightened and liberal consideration to the claims of other classes of religious professors. We have beard of the authority of great names in favouref the late repeal of the 'feet and Cor poration Acts; but I should be glad' to knoW what right those who opposed me last year had to quote Mr. Pitt as being opposed to me, when it is known that he stated in his place that he was decidedly against the tepee. On this subject even Mr. Canning, though the friend of concession to • the Catholics, hid not Hesitated manfully' td sliver that . his opinion of the ig dipitiiehet Of that 'sepia continued unehaken. 1 allude to these Illateliseuthorrties to 'show that there existed men isi the minds of the fields of concession a very elide differenteas the extent to which it would be prudent to admit its applicabili y. Whil s t so much i ns iitid of the friends elf civil and ieligicos liberty. I would virilistotieLcirdships that thereare in this counts y those fiiiitdrof civil and religious liberty, as they term theali: 4lits*,:wherionld oveirurn both the Church and the 'Thiene if they were able to du se,' and who now ad- VOCal'e the cause' of 'civil and veligioos liberty upon thosesort elf principles which enclave, our most antigen and vduableinstletitions Catholic Einancipatiiin was. is ,the year•l799e the'Cry oftho,e men; whir,* object, it*ha 4 ' been since ascertained, wa. nothing lees than to kindle the flames of rebellion in that country; yet it was acii enrierledged liy;thisie Men them-elves that not one of dices eus a friend to. or cared a farthing foe Catholic Emancipation, alvanseti that• cry bad been much the meads of exciting the feelings aud producing the roost disastious• consequences *amongst the people co lteland. In our own day the cry for civil and tell. o loos label ty has, as you . Loidships itcollect . :1 ... 1 0:'. • • 7 .., - .e- - . -. ' .. '' r .'' ;,- . . s • . . 4 ~rf .• , 4 , ,, -•‘....• '.. , .1:+ 1 .1 ,, T..i.•.' _ ".ere ea ktil s. iiiiik NW Volly of intiretsal mileage width km 011-talayad itwll amen , shr r eran* ; I have sd now and ell the Mischief o radical tenni. The great eke *Path al Clergy on as ebb aceadaa; I s re 4 e - e boa it .olit danger' to be :apPrebeeded is, that . in 'destroying the ~._..,""" fer ._. bieb ' be " "',_"ldlin" burst "'fn." di l. b y d P im " ....sseg .i. array ilf• Mat she measure. erwy C ords, with reapeec principle on which the revolution of 1888 was founded. in the o pini on ~f Mr. pima, his „,,,,„„„ a at .he wing . eg the Ss • basis, you may pelf down'and destroy the a hole Valets with Intl ad, whatever I have bees able to collect el that 'structure of the Constitution Which rests upon it. We are great mates opieion is, that be said hen err would e ve lo s (u i .". sold that only six or seven amain Catholic Peers can be ; t o l e "' L icb e a ctel, """.:iti: t a f ul e c" b liv as ffi c i r pe t":::: i r k ty y o . f W ha t. admitted into this House; and of what conseqnence Min. gaining : but this I know ' , that that great insansliJ say that If he be. Mat 'a 'Writhe' . be in the ilesi,iou of any question ? 'Weed the peopie. et Fagia n d would he agitate : l cr teedeeed • allay Suppose chat we shou'd have a Stwereign on the throne by it. into:electing,, he would never introduce or pone boo diem. who, like Charles 11. was concealrdly a Papist. though tendon of Peflaanieet. . The Nolde Earl was ciwered at the ma clusis: of hiespeecis, although the questing was called foe by severalprofessing himself a Psotestasir, What is to pretreat hem N (roils introducing as many Catholic Pets, into this House as bellicose+ ? Though Ido not mean to concede Lord PLUNKET.T rose, an,f, titer a short tire, succeeded in obtaining a hearng. My Lards, I have that half ad• zee" Catholic Nets in this' Hr use would mete. d myself is, this period of the debate in tone. nil make a'very great sites cion in its C.iiistitution— que. c. o' a declaratn a made by she Nol I- Earl, .Jana ow that lit is a small e'u Ober as reipeces its Votes.— cumosetating on some of the petit sin this 'o eject, 'Several great measures bait been carried in this .vhicb the N hie and Leveed Lord ptesented, that ho . House by even a smaller ma j ns i ty . It Is talk' should t.ike an oppo.tnniey, when the measure that in also, that probably but a few—some'SO or 40—Mounts coistemplasini came before their L edships, to sho Catholics may be admitted into the' Other House. l , hat, in its character,. it was 'opposed Cr the principles of contend their introduction may be Peoductive of vet , the Proiestant religion in.Eag:and, and to the fund*. great effects, if they be active, as respeits noillaitses is neenal 1 ins of the C. nstitution e Littlish's' at the pos. to. , t House; but, let me ask, is there DO sash r mode oi a iod of the . Reforms ion. and the Revolution; and obtaining seats in that House but by the suffrage 0 he said he w•iuld undes ta Ire to prove all this to dens.m. freeholders? The Bill itself is one to which 1 feel the 'motion. Mr Lords. biter the are umeasts of tai] N Me strongest objection, because if your Lordshi s look int. and Learned Friend ion the Wssoliack. and my Noble its provisions ion will hod no Bill was eves more 111. Ft tend behind me (Earl Grey), 1 must own I listened cautiously or delusively penned. It provides in i 0 at•tia isi cite curiosity to the arguments adduced by the shape for that advice ss loch may be give,. by theAlinisteee Noble and Learned Lnrd. as an answer to my Nobie of the ClOW11,1%h;, may all but one bs: Ito Sian Catholics. Ft scuds. I must say. my Lords, that this curiosity has If there should be tut one 'w two. Protestant Minister% I cannot 'seen completely, but most agreeably, disappointed. see bow they can maintain their opinions; and peril go oo the .Glee Noble and Leonard Lord *ill allow one to say.... maintenance of their upitaiun might depeud the maiuteuance of tbs PrOtestant Costnitution. I cannot see that iu such a Ministry and I say it a ith the greatest feelings • f respect for there is much probability that as effectual opposivon would be him— (het his entwines's of alarming and appalling d anger. which he had stated lie had found in the car. mask to the measure of such Ministers by a Protestant Load Chancellor; because I can very well see that a Protestant Lord c lith . stanCee of this Bill, sere stated on his own high au- Chanceilor may be very much wider the it !Purace oaf a powers , Prime Minister..—(Laughing). Your Lords..ipa have heard serest thorny, bait were unstipposted by any argso.ents. Or any deal about oath-making mid oath-taking ; that tome ut those üb. facts, or any patlianientary or historical documents. My L - cds I shall go at .once to what is essential to the jected to were by bind of stratagem. You Lye beard ..f the oath. required by the Aceof Henry V 111. relative to the King's sure. Act, and I shall defend it on the broad g sound that it mach, and subeequently by that in the time of Elisabeth ; jut I . shall carry you bath to Acts mere than • century preceding....- le oecessal? in the safely. if hot the eakence c - f the Magna Cbarta itself, which .0 distinctly maintained the Ktug's country. My Lords it is said that the principle of es supremacy as necessary to protect the Thrum and the propk sae pediency on which the measure is founded cannot jut thisthe conduct of Statesmen. A Right Revetend country front the encroachment of Papal authority. grew out a l of, and was only a. Conationion toutadenl on those liberties which ~ , . . . r os owe i . mate lad ought attaigi.ed this principle as an inserts . were derived irons our Satin' atocestors—(Hen. bear). then gust& of. the King's .upreonacy to provisions which ate can- *lent goo tend for polls ical conduct ; but, with all respect turns older than the period of Elie tbeth, and the prsivi.iou oaf kes fur that Rem :send Prela e, I shall shqw that it is lAA -1 iftajtis afar Mora, was made as much on Weill of the civil and *ions. Its what has been said against his ab--servettun I religious liberty of the people of this cuentry. as on behalf of the Concur—when no principle a f justice is violated. ripe trown's supremacy. It was neither less nor mote than a resolution protecting the Crown front the consequences sat bevies the all* diency is the best and only safe guide to Statesmen. glance of hs subjects transferred to the Papal S. e. Your Lord. B ut w h at principle of justice does the present measure ships are nut much in the habit, fortunately, of consulting those a viotale? Is it a violatson of justice to admit millions of the in habitants _ of this country to the privileges of sac sac k ien in t o bo r t r s t i o n w ei h id ich ar t n h is e f M or em pu be ch rs l iat eac tte ei leeal her pe to ott- p s ir si cc an b— ta t n A . Loath). Um if your earaships will permit ow, I will sloe what Citizens: How are they excluded from these Kiel ooe great authority says with respect to the necessity of these leges? IS it not by Acts of Parliament founded on Hiss very principle of .expedience 1 If it be demon• laws. Lord (tale. in speaking of the King's supremacy. anions that deo old o-ilt of allegiance aucluded in it that of supremacy, and slimed that the es;.ediency on which the exclusion was that the obligation of both is complete: he further adds, that to my ski Pope bat any power in this county la cameo, to the oath I,,usided had passed away—that the cause why it was el allegiance ; and distinctly says,that by that oath the Pope I. shut called into operation is now over borne by others ; if the mat from asserting any supremacy within.the tealtn. Teat learned country has been brought it t, dif f iculties and danger penes had observed that grievous erromon this head bad crept in from acting on the ground of exoediency, ate not his and made such program, that it was necessary they should be re. ~ , s _ M . tan it win become ne . mssary is let to., subjects o f th is realmrealm Ai .je ty inster* justified in making the principle of that the piker oath was virtually taken in the oath of alit. expediency, is. t of justice, the principle of their se tons? I have always understood that the principle laid &nes. Lard 114 k repeats that they who would Gen theme ache • ligation of these fetters mot now take the additioital oath of doss by my N bit Frien.l-11 t shimmed from by the -supremacy. To deny that the King's power is supreme i t , t h e goose Noble and Lessened Lcd who ha, just sac down—as the Is anther mire nor *so than revolution. It was assented as a strongargument in tastier of the repeal of the Test Act ; and an pritsciole . f slut Constitution, aid of every sound and Onuses' bad neon made•to it in this debate by a bight lire Prelate. (tee Constitution, is, that ptiveleg•-s and ft atchises are that the Legislature was busted to give way to the sense of the t h e t i g h ts of all the pro n e —that the print p e of tI• people as eaptessed in their petitions. Perhaps the Right lice. elusion is t i le exception—and that the eagle . , of the Prelate °Victualled the circumstance that the greater part of those Petitions represented the Established Church as the greatest pow• people ale not to be suspen. ed uron any principle bast sible grievance and an iutokrable abuse. The Ilight ltor. Prelate of expediency, or, I may say, I.ol o ieal necessity of the and Noble Lords will see. 'Morton', what sort ter icovitY is Pre' iglied degree. The people, ire this case, claim du vided for the Church by the 11W, which proposes to admit palmate • to make laws, and to adetionster the laws. Thee to a seat in this or iti the other Hume rig h t of Parliament who do not ac- knowledge the Kiiiis supremacy in matters spiritual and reclesia- claim the right to be admitted to sit on Parliament, and laic, and who, doubtless, as Roman Catholics, ate united itmeinion to hold the executive offices of the State —mud before with those who luuk upon the Established Church as a great gene. )otl take away the common eight of the sulsject, yeu 'lntend abuse. The oath the Hill Imposes gives up a legislative must show that not a suppositiou-, bet a teal necessity enactment, the claim of the King so far to the duty of his thejects. We are told that by ibis 11111 the interests or the Church of Kugl a nd exists. Is this claim to r espect the principle of 'egad and the Established Church of Ireland will be mutually strendtbased and justice noothiog. ? When it is clearly proved that and secured. If I thought so I would be the readiest man in the expediency is against the princille of exclusion, is that world to vote for the measure. I deny that it will. What has been ne.thing ? M 1 Lords, the hostility which prevails in die tone and tamper pursued by the members of that Association in ' Ireland,which bearded and defied the Government ot that country. [ eland is not between one part of the people and the and which has but recently been put down by an Act of Parkameot ? other. It is not between sect and sect—it sets indove • Hate they not told you that the Established Church interposed .'u .1 against individual—it enters into the fitments oaf between the tranquilization of Ireland. and is in tact the greatest until-let—it pervades all the tel tines of l . f d i , an • vi national grievance? The Bill is described as necessary to give a . new support to the Church of England : ibis, I suppose, is to sup. "tea in• *awe system. 44 society —{Hear.) It mete ply the place of that which was taken away last Session for the how all business—it affects ..I 'auks and classes--it repeal of the Test anal Corporation Acts. I voted against that is found among the rich. the poor. and the licentious— Act because I believed it would endanger our Established Church; it mingles in every transaction—it breaks down all the and on the same principle I shall vote against the present Bill bat sires of d ot it poi.ons all enjoyment—it stops all Willi\ whose abominable proceedings I have alluded to, pledge themselves to defend in future that Church which they have already illtaCtlatse,and what is the consectoence ? Why, as described, through the mouthpiece of their orators, as the bane of long as this state of things i, continued, as long as the Ireland ands grievous nuisance? Many of the rdkioas of di test ,tie. cote' (protection given to the two religions encore*. year relative to the Test Acts held neatly the cane language relative c age their hostility, it is impossible that any tneasuees to the Established Church of this country. Are their assertions can be effectual in prs.viding for the safetyof the country. then, my Lords, deserving of credit, or are they nut? Or, oinks s uet circumstances. can any reliance be placed upon either as likely We have at length become sensible of thebirevils—we are to conuibuts to the support of a Chinch which they regard with more than seasible—a - e are alarmed at this *LEe of mutual abhorrence. though for different reasons? Are the assurances • Are we then to thongs.tae fright nod by a monster of our and remonstrances of the members of the Established Church con. ' otsu creation ? The people feel in.u.t. as long as that es tuned in their numerous Petitions to he treated with disrespect. es regarded as destitute of truth? My Lords, we have beard continued it will be a grievance; to this giievance they must give vent, and giving vent to the Relevance, pro mo:nigh of the statute of Mary in relatiuo to the Ring's supre macy, and suppoeting the Pope's power as respects ecclesiastical duce the Catholic Association. If there were no griefs. and spiritual matters. To these remarks the best answer I ma give ante, there would be no As.ociation. As long as the is, that there Is so change in the creed of Rome; and shat the Catholic religion, as respects the ambition of its head. continues the grievance COlitinties, a chains must be made by the people mom ash, thou days when this test was eoas ke. te g n e c e ss a ry. The for redress; as long as the people make this claim, they dead/mot that Church I bel i eve a r e the same to that day 11l v i i " must be continua!ly collected into bodies ;as long as they nt•al matters, as they were in the moat ancient times—at least they Are so. collected they will continua .lly have leaders. To cartbi sense injuduini t y o il a pi gr s e t a k t e d m itr e L f asili p e el liSid ple. tr i ti"al fur Oag ga , M lC ; 4 l,o trd ra. ta , i els, esent their claims, they must select some of that will not sacrifice the supremacy of the Cr. wo to that of litanie s :leeriest amongst them; and the continual existence of even to religion, by giving my assent to this Bill le I. the bounden Ihe grievance drags into continual existence the sedia duty of Ministry—looking to the' duty the subjects are bound to ; cou.ness of the Roman C at holi c A ura . pay to the Sovereign, and looking to the consequences of this sea . time and lenti sure—soeto monks the supremacy of the Crown. Your Lord. elat ion. I . hus opt mition is prs.duced to the audio• wisps have beard the speeches of many Peen is favour of the UtU cities of the country. Some persons advise us* vest • ; —.l have listened with eteat anemone to the speech ot the Noble to time, an d t h e operat i on o f healing elements.— Earl (Grry)--1 have heard with great corimity those of the new But time will out les s e n ghe e danger. My Lords, eacer cone -rts; but neither item them, nor from the Noble Karl who • has alludd to so many topics, have I heard any new reasons fur tangy as lam now addres s ing your Lordships, delay agreeing to this Bill; and after all the arguments I leave bend I wall 0..1y increase the danger, which will goon aggro. must say the subject seems to ate to be jut where it was beture. I eating from day to day and hone to hour. The Catholics give credit to the statements which have been made.tbat the inatter h ave , during the last fif y )ears, beeis advancin in of the Dill ho capable of being separated, and may be esainined andg debated &cachet*. I shall take care to examine the clauses of wealth, in khohledge, and in nurobeesj . and looking at that Ball when discussed seriatim. lu my opinion, it will be attach this notgriont fact, I ask from what source is danger most to be dreasted? It you will persist in this mo t 0110 better to await the arguments In f of the several clauses of she Mil in the Committee, anal in that stage endeavour to remove necessary, most unwise, and most unjust system of en the consequences. Under these circumatances, I dean for the pres elusion t cement myself till we reach that stage of the proceedings. I , ran cannot but keep alive and spread disecte• toeless it is on that grand that I should leave preferred that a tent and disaffection ; and if so , from whom is danger pi•poutien should have beets made by the Noble Duke for mita to be apprehended ? Is it not from those who going tato a Committee to cuisine the realms fur °righted:se, are most rapidly advancing in knolledge, wealth, in• such a Bill; because It would have been but right that is a i r e and sadwho • wal ed be the most sass esetter el so much anperrenee your L or d.hi p s s h ou ld a im Celli once ,power, a kouwo something more of the grounds of that espediency apes luable bulwa. ks of your institutions, did not the stigma which you are called to legislate. It has been stated tram a high f exclusion convert all these benefits into the most aloha-11y, that if their Lordships were in possession of all that deadly „tn.n._ Ministers knew, they would out sample to read the 11.11 a attend ly the ignominious ono MITA nygts time. I prefesi lam no frieed to legislating or passing Acts re wm ....4.0 ;eke most--+r k as liii . ch people were .. p rec i . rly ... sh oes Immanuel, -for ree , en , k ,,,,„,, only to Ministers t h eolo pi ese . it exclusions and disabilities to which they were esplked. [Waren said that our course well tear if we had a Protestant Kluge I say, that to undeltake for any great length i i time lietause then no danger was to be apprehended. This. with him, to govern the greet mass of a wealthy and inte.liv was only at.ground to: objection to she measure, because in yea- ant people on the principle that, io the midst of foss deriog darns eligible to a set in Parliament. and reeling ow . .. Kb net to appoint them to thew sionitimis which were inst i tutions, they are to be excluded from the con• -themild. Ojai of their ambition, would be to etigeoder is that body mon privitepes and bent - fits of those ittltitetiOne t dissatisfactioo and disaffection; and I will nut consent to peso is an tradertakicg that is absolutely chinsetieal.- 111 a linger of disaffection to the Threa•—(Heare hear). With re- If they sic to be excluded from those privileges, end homes to Me petitions in (avow of the Bill, mid the respect they '' '""• 'ale sodded to. I am me unwilling to acquiesce to that respect, it -sights to which they •ale as justly entitled as their Prof 1 l o sepoed they were got up fairly; nofoitbstaionng the number, • esteet fellow subjects, who form but a small minority 'km have been presented against It, I have to 'mem the *path, in the country, it is utterly impossible that they should ._ ... .. I