Star. — London, England, 1820-09-06 00:00:00

WM •••••r- . ev rent . • 0, A , - .. .. ..--- • I . . - 4iLL7.N . . 4:".....;", „ , v, ot, • k (,)e--.....7 0 \ , Z 3 6 . - -- _,__ e jg• tanolyi . „,„ ,ifor•Pc • i ~, ' . ' , . ..' . 1 ' 7.4 -1 II 1 11"11.-4 46 -- ' ' ' ' "" i ' . (12-4!‘. I . 1 alr- •. . a-i-X-'l, . . $ . • . , • . . . r Cent. , na WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 6, 1820. Nu • 10.463. . PRICE SEA, EN - PENCE. OFFICE OF ORD:UWE, August 25, 1820. 1 1 1 Th PRI ACIPAL OFFICERS of hif MA JESTY'S ORDNANCE do hereby give Alike, That Proposals will be received at their Office, in Pall-mall, on or before FRIDAY, the 15th day of September next, from sua persons ;a may be willing to undertake the supply of FORAGE for the Ordnance Horses stationed at Woolwich, in Sussex, North Britain, and Northern District, to be delivered at the expense of the Contractor, for a period of Six Months from the Ist of October next. TRIAL OF THE QUEEN.. SEVENTEENTH DAY—IN CONTINUATION. HOUSE OF LORDS, SEPTEMBER 5. CrosiNenunination of Signor &semi continued. How long did you serve as courier while there ?—Abont nine months. Who hired you for her Royal Highness?--I entered her Royal Highness's service through the good offices of a banker named Chearini, the Baron and Bergami. And do you mean to represent, that when you went Into her Royal Highness's service you were in easy circumstances ?—I always have. thank Goa, been in easy circumstances. Were you always as well dressed before you went into her Royal Highness's service as afterwards was always well dt eased. Why you know you were always called Count Milani when you were introduced to Signor Marietti ?—I do not knelt it. Do you mean to swear that you were not called Count Mi lani after you were introduced to Signor 3larietti?--I have sworn to say the truth, and the truth alone; and I don't know that I was introduced to Seignor Marietti as Count :Milani. Do you mean to swear• that yOu never heard yourself called Count Milani, in the presence of Signet Matietti, in London? —I assure I never heard myself called Count. Do you swear that you never heard yourself called Count at Aston, when you lived with Mr. Godfrey ?—I assure I never heard myself called Count at Aston. Will you also swear that you never introduced yourself to Signor Marietti as a merchant ?—Never. That you have never said you came to this country for com mercial purposes ?—No ; I always said I came in the service of a Spanish family. What is the name of the Spanish family in whose service you It is a little too much, to be told that a letter written on a for• aver occasion, which directly contradicts the evidence he row gives, must be produced, before we can put any question to his I , that may tend to prove his perjury by other means. If we asst bound first to shew the letter, he may give his own explanation. say it was a double eutendre, or escape by some other mean,. Tice Learned Counsel concluded a powerful and argumentative appeal to their Lordships by declaring, that no power on earth,' not even that Court, much less the persons charged with prop fluting this perjured witness, had a right to dictate the manner in which a question should be at to his own witness. He de manded, on the part of the piefessiOn to which, be belonged, and on the psolt of the Public, that their Lordships would pause be fore they gave a doctrine so monstrous the sanction of their high authority. The Arroaarv-(nstat. replied.--Ile complained warmly:of the term of I •Perjared Witness" applied to the individual under examination, Mr. Ermosam owned that S was improper, and begged leave to retract it. ' Mr. Baosonate.—lt was used purely hypothetlailly—merely hypothetically. Abe Arroastar-Thontaat resumed.—The opposite Counsel had no right to do drcuitsuly what they could not do directly. They admitted that their object was to get the wituess to de clare as to the castrate of some written document that was in their possession, and which they might afterwards produce is contradiction of his testimony. Mr. BRS/OVAIII admitted no such thing—(Order,erder).-- My Loth, we have a right, when what we state, is !alert's*. tented, to contradict"—(Order, order). My Lords (with veho mence), I have a right to do so"—(Cries o f order, order, erder).— Amidst which, Mr. B. raising his voice still higher, repeated, " I have a right to do so"--I Reissued calls Verdict., and grim Mr. Banuastme said, be would not press him to disclose his present name. In answer to other questions, the witness said, he did not re member having been called by any other name in Italy, nor corresponding in any other name. He bad been in Swkzetiand many times. Had been at Colombier six weeks. Did not con ceal his name of Sacchi there. has had money in the . Beek at Lausanne, to the amount of 50 Louis. Never bad snore there at one time, bor had he credit with the Bank for more. Never recollected to have said be had credit for more, but would not swear he did not say so. Witness fetched Mademoiselle De Mont from Colombier to Milan ; was employed to.do so by the Milan Commission. Never told any person in Switzerland that Mademoiselle De Mont was going hack into the service of the Princess. Had come to England with the Courier, Mr. Krous, but did not know if it was the same Mr. Krous that was lately arrested in Paris for selling forged notes. Had several journies with Krous. kid never received, nor been promised, nor expected any money or advantage, more than his expenses in this business. Witness bad seen Mademoiselle De Mout several times since he came to this country., but bad not seen any of the other witnesses. This finished the Grose-examination. Re-enuptined is the Arroansv-Ganzaar.. Witness's family was now at Brogilo. He had been in the army of Italy ten years. Was made lieutenant Of Cavalry on the field of battle on the 6th September, 1813. When be left the Princess of Wales's service, he received a certificate of good character, given to him by Count Schlavini. It was sealed with a seal such as he had seen on the Princess's letters. Had never seen the Princess write, but was told the certificate was signed by the Princess. Schiavini was at that time Marshal of the Palace, and gave certificates of good character to persons leaving the service of the Princess. The Oats to be good, sweet, dry, and clean, without any mix tare of Foxy or blowburnt Oats, and must not weigh less than 37 pounds per Winchester Bushel; the Hay to be sweet and dry, and delivered in Trusses of 56 lbs. weight. Th Straw to be good, clean, and dry Wheat or Rye Straw, and delivered in Trusses of 36 lbs. weight. The Prices to be paid for the respective Quantities of each Article which may be delivered, to be at the following rates, via. For the Oats at per hundred pounds, Avoirdupois weight. Por the Hay at per hundred and twelve pounds. Put- the Straw at per hundred and twelve pounds. , is, And it is expected that the Contractor shall receive the Stable Dung, which, during the period of his Contract, may accumu late, making an allowance for the same after the rate of per Horse per Week. Farther particulars may be known upon application to the Ckficers commanding the Royal Artillery in each District, awd also at the Secretary's (Mice in Pall Mall aforesaid, any day between the hours of Ten and Four o'Clock, where the ?reposals must be delivered, sealed up, and endorsed " Pro. Trails for Forage;" but no Proposal can be admitted after the 15th September, at twelve o'clock at noon of the same day, 11,:ither will any tender be noticed unless the party making it, or as agent i.i his behalf, shall attend. By Order ?far Board, R. H. CREW, Scc "dap!. STAR LIFE ASSURANCE OFFICE. 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A Greek and Enzlish Voi:abul.oxy, 12nto. 3s. 6d. . . . said you came over? • cunfusion).--Mr. B. reiterated; with increased vehemence, " I The ATTORNST.-GENZRAL objected to this question , as it as- have a eight to- do so"—(Order, order , withdraw, willsdrato)— Mr. BROUGHAM objected that there was no pro o f o f S c hi av i n i having any authority to give certificates of character, and be sumcd that the witness had come over in the service of a Spa- "To that ' said Mr. II " I have no objection." complained that some entries on the minutes of what the witness nish family. Counsel withdrew.—Some conversation ensued, after which had been told should not stand. Mr. Baoucitem.—l wish to save time. Is it true or not, that Counsel were recalled, and - The LORD CHA NCELLOR.---Certeinly, what has only you came over in the service of a Spanish family.-It is not true. The LORD CHANCELLOR said, that he bad it in coo- been told the witness, is no evidence at all. Did you represent to Signor Marietti, or to any one in his mend from the House to state to the Counsel at the bar, that family her; that the Qeeen owed you money ?-1 said I had a they must not interrupt each other while speaking, but reserve The ArromuneGineuese submitted he had made ou t a p r i ma facie case, that Schiavini had authority to give the servants cer law-suit, a process with her Royal Highness; but I never said any corrections or explanations they had to make till their op- tificates of character. she owed me moary. ponent had Suished. • The House thought the evidence not sufficient. Was it true or not that you had a law-suit with her Royal The Armastr-Geneftee resumed.—To represent might mean Highness ?—1 meant to say that I was in the process which was in writing, or not in writing; the Counsel for the cross.examina- Be-examination resumed. making against her Royal Highness. - tion were bound to put the question in a way the least unequivo- Who are the Marietta's ?-They have a banking-house at Milan. Did you mean to tell Signor Matietti's family that you were cal; the witness might be asked whether he had said so and so in Have they a house of business in London ?—I know of no one of the witnesses against her Royal Highness?—No. conversation—that would be a relevant mode of examination; business they are. Was it a double entendre then that you used in speaking of this any other would not In making this objection, he stood on W ere they the Pri n cess's Bankers at Milan ?—They were so. to Signor , Marietti ?—I never spoke of that to Signor Medea': the authority of the decision which, the Judges h ad pronounced One of the Marietti's called on you two months ago?--Yes. Then to whomsoever you spoke about that law-stilt, did you as to this very point the other day; and the Counsel for het Did he state for what purpose he called? use it as a d able entendre to that person? Majesty could have no other object in their present course of pro- Mr. Hutu:num objected to any conversation between the The ArroaszinGssaaat. said, the Learned Counsel bad no ceeding, than to obtain a revision of that decision. witness and M. Marietti. right to ask what was passing in the mind of the witness. Mr. BROUGHAM now explained, and said he had never contended The ArmaxneGuisiete submitted, the question arose out of Mr. Beoueueet contende d , vpon the authority of the Duchess for anything else than simply for his right to ask generally wise- the cross-examination. Mr. Brougham had examin e d t o p ar t of Kingston's cue, that he ores entitled to ask the question, and ther the witness had ever represented so and so. Neither had of the conversation, and he had a right to know th e reat. quoted some passages in the evidence, which proved that two Mr. Denman admitted that their object vas to get the witness to The LORD CHANCELLOR—Read that part of the evi dence.—Tbe evidence was read. questions had been asked as to the expectations of a witness, declare as to the contents of ahy written paper. He had merely and three as to his belief. taken up the next stage of the argument, and contended hypo- The LORD CHANCELLOR said, it must be a continua- Thetion of that particilar conversation, and no other. LORD CHANCELLOR desired that the terms of the thetieally that if the case were even so, they had a right to put question should be stated ; and when the question was repeated, the question. Lord ERSKINE was of the same opinion. decided that Mr. Brougham was competent to ask it. . The LORD CHANCELLOR thought that the former de- Lord LIV ERPOOL understood it was a conversation rela. Answer.—Yea, as a double entendre. cislon of the Judges, as to the production of letters, did not tine to the witness being here, and being a witness a ga i ns t th e Did you allow Merited to discover you were one of the wit- amount to a decision of the propriety of putting the present clues- Queen. He submitted to the House whether they sh o uld no t nesses in this business? tion, and with the leave of the House, he would now put it to be put in possession of the whole conversation? The Arroexer-GENERA L. objected to this question, the Judges, whether according to the practice of the Courts be- The Arromsee-GeNeam., under the direction of th e ir L or d. Mr., BROUGHAM .—Well then put it—Did you disclose to any low Counsel are entitled to ask a witness whether he bad made ships—On what occasion was it you had this conv ersa ti o n a b ou t person who you were ?—I told this to Mr. Ma r ietti after I re- cert ain representations without specifying whether these repro_ the Queen? Mr. BRORGRAM still objected. It appeared in the evidence turned from Aston. sentations had reference to any written document? Did you not know that Medea* family had alieady disco- The House baying assented, the Junes withdrew to consider that the witness said something to Merietti, but n o t a w or d o f vered who you were?-1 do not know. of the p utt . While the Junta were out, what Marietti said to the witness. Do you mean to swear they did not already know who you KENYON took the opportunity of moving, first, fora Mr. DENMAN supported the objection of his Learn e d L ea d er . -were?—'That I was a witness.? copy of all Communications between his Majesty's Government The AlTogamv-GrximAL agreed that his question mu s t a r i se .Had they not found out your real name?--Yes, because 1 and her Majesty's Advisers on the subject of pecuiary Supplies, out of the cross-examination, and he contended the pr esen t bad mentioned it some time before. since the month of June last; secondly, fur an account of all question did so. Ile would put it to th e ir L or d s hip s to say , But not to any of Marietti's family?--I toldiny real name to Supplies of Money made to Il e r Majesty since her arrival in whether a Counsel, in cross-examination, was to get an i so l a t e d one of the brothers of Marietti, who was in the family. this country. question of conversation ; and the Counsel, in his examination lbw long is it ago since you told this to one of the Marktti's? Lord LIVERPOOL complained of the irregularity of mal:ing in chief, was not to be allowed to have an opportunity of p utt i ng d A few months after I was there. . such a motion, without any communication of it having been questions to explain the observation of the witness so ob ta i ne how long is it ago?—Seven or eight months. made to him. Nu complaint had been made by her Majesty's in cross-examination. To whom did you tell your name, and who you were two Advisers, of the want of money, or of any other facility neces- The LORD CHANCELLOR was of opinion the exarniva. months ago?—Two months ago—l do not remember. sary for her Majesty's defence ; and though his Lordship bad no thin must be confined to this very point. Did the Gentleman of Mr. Marietti's family, to whom you objection to laying before the whole world all that had pused on The Arroaxar-Geocznee—Did any conversation take place told who you were, ever see you afterwards ?—lt is some time the subject, he saw no necessity for deviating so far from the between you and Marietti relating to your being a witn e s s aga i ns t since : he has set out for Aldan. established forms of the House, as to consent to the present inc. the Quern?—Marietti told me, that Mr. Brougham, th e bro have you ever been in Mr. Marietti's house since that time? don. The Noble Lord might canveit his motion into a notice thee of Mr. Brougham, the Counsel to the Queen— , —Several times. of motion for to-morrow. Mr. BROUGHAM here interposed when When was the last time you were there tr make a visit ? Lord KENYON explained the cause of his bringing for. Lord EXMOUTH called the Counsel to order. . Three or four months ago. ward the motion without any regular notice. He had been in- Mr Baouanam submitted be had a right to stop the questi o n Did they then know you were Milani, or Sacchi?—The Iwo- formed, since he came into the House, that the case for the if he felt it to be irregular. ther who set out for Milan knew I was Sacchi; the other not. Bill would be closed to-day, and, conceiving it of the greatest Lord EXMOUTH could not but consider the thus i n t er - Did they call you Sacchi that day ?e-Never. consequence that their. Lordships ~and. the Public should be rupting a witness as inegular—(Order ! Order I). Did you tell the family of Mr. Godfrey, at Aston, that you satisfied that her Majesty had every means and facility given Earl GREY was certain the Noble Viscount was wr o n g . It were Milani, or Sacchi ?—I said I was Sacchi. her to prepare her defence, he could not defer making the mo- Was the duty and the privilege of Counsel so to Interpo s e ; an d h e Did you say you were one of the witnesses?—l did not say tion for the necessary information on the subject which he had tsusted the House would not so far forget it duties as to inter that ; but 1 caused it to be told them. just submitted. But as it now appeared, from what had fallen fore with—(Cries of Order, order 1)---As the Noble Visc i o un t h a d Who did you cause to communicate this?—A Mr. Sperati. from the N o bl e L or d, th a t th ere was no probability of the case taken on himself to instruct the witness and the Couns e l i u th e i r Who is Mr. Speriti ?—An English Gentknran whom I have closing this day, he begged to conv e rt his motion into a notice duty, he would perhaps condescend to direct the House in t h e known at the house of Mr. Medea. of motion for to-morrow, conduct they were to take as Judges. Is he not a relation of Marietti?—l have beard he is a cousin. After being about twenty minutes absent, the Judges re. Lord EXMOUTH considered he was doing no more than his Tell us what was the first time that Sperati knew who you turned, and the Loan Cuter Juirrica gave the following opinion: duty, any more than the Noble Earl. He was obliged to really were?—lt was on one day be came to me on a visit, then "We are of opinion, though there is not in the Courts below any Noble Lord who would eivaigm informadon,but h e w ou ld I told him who I was. any established rule upon the point, that if a witness be asked not submit to the cruestioning of the Noble Earl. He was I low long is that ago?—Seven or eight months, if he has made any particular representation, it is competent as anxious as the Noble lush to do his duty, and he trusted be Earl You will swear it was at least seven months ago?.-.-About for the Counsel on the opposite side to interpose, and ask should discharge it with more temper than the Noble at 1 was did. seven months ago. if that representation has been reduced to writing or not.— The witness resumed—Marietti asked, was it true that Did you ever make application to be taken back into the sere If it be in writing, the document must be produced before the a witness against the Queen ? and I answered in the affirmative. vice of the l'rincess of Wales?—Yens rte r es e r& ! witness can be asked a question about it. If it be oral, then the Marled said— Mr. DRNMAN here again interposed. The examination ought Did you ever represent, after you had left the service of her question can be put. In explanation, the Learned Judge re to stop here, as the question respecting the witness being an eve- Royal Highness, that you were in a destitute condition ?-Never. commended that the question should be put in two parts : first, Will you swear you never entreated any one of her Royal whether the witness made a representation; and secondly, of dente against the Queen had been answered, and the con ve r se ,. Highness's suite to take pity or have compassion on your sitarwhat particular nature that representation was." tion ought to proceed no further. tion—Aew mt ricordo ! On what occasion do you mean? Tne LORD CHANCELLOR intimated, that his practice Mr. BROUGHAM submitted, that the answer in the cross-exa- Mr. Baotenseu.—First answer my qu e s ti o n, sad then I will in the Courts below enabled him to give an opinion nearly to mination on which the re-examination was founded w aste -n I answer your's. Did you never entreat any one of the Princess's told hlarietti I was a witness against the Queen." His L earne d the same effect. ' suite to take pity or compassion on you ? It may be that I did so. Th e C ounse l were th en ca ll e d i n , an d the opinion of the Friend had now, in hues re.examir.atiote got all which pr ece d e d that observation, and had no right to inquire as to what followed. Did you ever represent to any pereon, after you had left the Judges was stated to them. The ArromemeGvotam. again contended, that his Learned service of the Princess, that you taxed yourself with ingratitude Mr. BROUGHAM b egge d t o k now w h e th er , b e f ore h e kne w towards so generous a mistress? that any representation tad been made at all, he was to ask the Friend having obtained part of a conversation in cross e xam i ne . The :mosses-Guuee, after asking for a chair for the wit- witness if he had made a representation in writing? tion, did it at the risk of having the whole conversation b roug h t ness, on account of indisposition, which was immediately allow- A conversation upon the subject took place, in which several out in re-examination. ed bine objected to the question put by Mr. Brougham, because Lords joined. Mr. Bftevemau repeated his arguments against eremi n i ng to the representation might have been made in writing, in which 'The LORD CHANCELLOR suggested to Mr. Brougham the whole of this conversation. case he conceived it incompetent to the Learned Counsel to put to withdraw the question. Counsel was ordered to withdraw from the bar, the question. If that representation was in writing, the writing Mr. BLOUGHAM.—My Lord, I much wish to withdraw the Lord L A UDE RDA LE thought the witness had b een stoppe d must be produced; but he would object to any representation, question. I have been waiting for an opportunity to do so. tOO oThswe soon. CHA NCE LLOR thought tbe proper waywould unless it was in conversation. The Earl of DONOUGHMORE did not think that tia: Mr. Bawd:mem contended, that the limits of a cross-exa- Counsel for the Queen had adopted the proper mode of appeal- be for the Counsel to put a question. mination were much more extensive than an examination in ing to their Lordships, and he called on the House to protect The Arroamer-Guseee to the witness—Wh a t did M ar i ett i m chief. He e isad a right to put the question in th e way he had i ts own di gn i ty , an d no t p e r m it such conduct to he pursued, say to you when you told him you wer e a w i tness aga i nst the dune. .He%ad a right to ask the witness if he had represented The. Learned Counsel also had not treated the opinions of the Queen i—Mr. Boot cbject&i to th e ' quest i on . ' far from admitting that so mid so, without stating whether it was The ATTORNEYGENERAL—What did M ar i ett i say to you on The 1.0111) CH.INCELLOR thought it too genera l. Lord HOLLAND w in a written instru- Judges with sufficient went or in a conversatiure Aire' further, the only time in which respect. as the opinion thu opposite Counsel could take an exception, was, if the witness of the Judges was that by which their Lordships, were to be this subject ?....-.. cross-examination s h eaved that any conversation took place on Mr. Beouettest—T submit this is irregular, as nothing in my had said it was in writing. He trusted their Lordships would bound. It was a Parliamentary rule, that their Lordships 'sot adopt a coulee, the consequences of which would be, to pre- should never esk the Judges what they were to do. They vent all the benefits of a croeoexarnination, m i g ht ask them as to the practice of the Courts below, this subject. Here the witness pleaded indisposition, and asked for leave to i and then judge for themselves.' His Lordship wished the I Lord LAUDERDALE—You may i nqu i re wh a t t o ok pl ace withdraw.f Learned Judges to be confined• to the points in question, and before. The AxeOlOire-Greasee—Before you told Marietti yeti were Mr. Dxx,u*—ln all the books of law that I have seen; in a witness, had he said anything on the subject ?—No. all the trials that I have read, and in all the practice that I have , nut to give extraneous opinions. The witness was then called in, and ' known. I never knew such an interpositioa as that of the At- Mr. BROW:MAY tininwiths cross-exantiaalion. What did Marietti then say on the subject? torney-GenereL To furnish a witness with an excuse for not Did you ever say to any person that your conduct to the Mr. Bnonan.tx—Hen we object; nothing said by Marietti answering a question, which only put hit credit to the test in a ' can affect the Queen, unless you first chew he was her Majesty' s Princess of Wales was liable to a charge of ingratitude to her agent --.--The qt was submitted to the Judges.- legitimate way, if permitted, must prevent the detection of every for her goodness?—Never . • • conspiracy. I dare the Attorney-General to state a single 'Hue three Letters were produced by the Learned Colima, Lord LIVERPOOL said the Judges would perhaps r e qui re case, to quote a single instance, in wbith this was Permitted. ' and shown to the witness, who acknowledged them all to be in some time for considering this questing, and as it now wa n tk • . It may prevent a witness from the detection of his frauds and his own h a nd-writing. .The Le%ten were not read- but five minutes to five, he submitted thrproprkey get .i ng . • I perjuries ;it may, for the moment; prevent --A hi being proved Did you ever go under an y other name than mo u e an d Sace The LORD CHANCELLOR agreed hi the eulliefirion, and as teken totally disqualilied to give evidence. It can be of no oteer chini, or Sacchi?--I have been called by another name, as lam said theeLeartied Judges would be materially assisted by having use, nor used for any other purpose, than to prevent the still called the questions and answers which relatecito this subject, eliciting of truth. What ! shall we not put a witness, *hem What is that name?—The witness begged their Lordships ile s course was :Treed to, and their Lordships Adjourned. we know to be ir,famous, to the severest examination, with- would prevent its getting into the Papers if be told his name, as After a few words from Earl Garr and Lord Larnmeetr, out declaring to bane the meatai we Wive of droving Clint so? it might otherwise expose him to tbe fury of some persons. , thi the Short-hand writer's notes. n, le, ks t. et, lf ; )11 he Ps" lei at-- Kr r-