Star. — London, England, 1830-02-26 00:00:00

anything of the mode in which Parliament may deal with that subject, but this I will take the liberty of saying, that it will be impossible that your lordships will ever agree that the charter of that corporation be renewed unless they give greater faci lities than heretofore to the formation of joint stock banking com panies. It is utterly impossible that the Bank of England should supply all the currency of the country ; and the proof that they can. not do so is to be found in this, that they have done all in their power for that purpose—they have established branch banks, and done all else that they might, but without success. My persuasion is, that nothing will better supp ly t he existing vacuum in the currency, than the establishment of banks upon t he Scotch system. (Hear, bear.) I do believe, that the extensive adoption of that system would have the effect of safely and instantly tilling that vacuum. Such banks would proceed upon prin ciples very different from those which governed the present class of country banks. No one bank knows anything of the man ner in which other banks carry on business. They, again, know no thing of what is going forward in the bank of England, and the go vernment remains in perfect ignorance of the operations of all.— Hence arise the most complicated and monstrous difficulties. But of all the sort of banks of which I speak, publicity would be their essence; and, from the number of persons concerned in them, the fullest information would be possessed, and thus directed, respecting the course and variations of foreign exchanges, and the vibrations of that golden chain upon which so much depends. A body, so formed could easily discern the earliest approaches of danger; and from them such contractions of their issues might be expected, as a sound and broad acquaintance with the subject might be expected to supply, corrected and canvassed by a numerous proprietary. At all events, whatever be adopted, the banking system must be put upon a footing safe and substantial, such as will, on the one hand prevent over issues, and on the other guard against unwise and dangerous contraction. It was with views of this sort that the measure of 1826 were proposed; but, as I have already said, they were rendered Insufficient by the directors of the bank feeling it to be their duty to refuse their assent to any relaxa tion of the privileges of which their charter had put them in pos session. Notwithstanding that this refusal acted so prejudicially upon the establishment of joint stock banks, seven or eight were set up. and, I believe, at the present moment are doing good bug m.sti ; but the numbe r Is too small to be productive of any extensive benefit, and this disadvantage is obviously owing to the existence of teem: restrictions which the privileges of the Bank of England im pose. In making this statement, Iby no means wish to convey any censu-e upon the conduct of the Bank of England. I have had much communication with the directors of that corporation during the few years that I was connected with his Majesty s government; and the results of that communication, combined with other cir cumstances, have left the fullest conviction on my mind of the earnest desire which they entertain not only of discharging the obligations they owe to their constituents, but of doing all in their power to promote the public good, in discharge of the difficult, serious, delicate, and at times awful duties, which they are called on to perform I should do them great injustice if I slid not state, that even when I thought them in error, and looked upon their conduct as injudicious, 1 still saw most palpably mani fested a disposition, an earnest desire to do justice to the other proprietors and the public. The next subject to which I desire to cline' your lordships' attention, is that of taxation. It will be re membered that at no time have I joined in those indiscreet attacks which from dine to time have been made upon the king's govern. meta to reduce the taxation. Perhaps It will be said, and not unnaturally, that the situation which I held tor some years ren. tiered me the least likely of all men to join in those attacks ; indeed it was my duty for some years to resist them; but I think that resistance was not carried beyond the proper limit. During a short period of my connection with Government, it was my fortune, as its organ in the other house, to pro. prase the repeal of 9,000,0001. of taxes ' • and now I will call your lordships' attention to the practical effe ct of that reduction. If the consumption of the taxed commodities had remained the same, tie revenue of the country would have been reduced to the amount of 9,000,000!. What, however, was the fact ? The accounts of 1827 showed that there was a loss of only 3,000,0001. and the succeeding year was only 2,000,0001. below the income of 1827. I need scarcely Then, my l or ds, praise the wisdom of those reductions ; the more es pecially when I state the fact that the revenue did not suffer to the extent of the reductions—nay, that the loss to the public income bore no proportion to the relief given ftom taxation. It was all along stated that there would be a certain loss, and it was foreseen that that loss would not equal the reduction ; but there were few be yond those by whom the measure was proposed who anticipated so large a reduction with so small a diminution of income. To this I have to add, that in sonic branches of the public revenue, so far front lowered duties producing diminished receipts, the direct re. verse was the effect produ ced .-increased income followed upon reduced imports. 1 allude particularly to the alteration of duties affecting Scotch and Irish spirits. When those alterations were first proposed, they were immediately objected to on the ground that the people would then have increased facilities of indulging in intemperance—that they might drink in the streets ad deitues—and that the change, though a pettuniary relief, would be a mural injury; fasts, however, falsified this prediction. The parties who made it overlooked the fact that the change del not make legal spirits one whit more accessible than il licit spirits had previously been. On reference to return', your lordships will see that if consumption had remained the sane, the loss to the revenue would have been 800,0001. But not only was there no loss to the revenue, but it was actually found to exceed fonner7years, though the reduction of duty was as much as 50 per cent. Thus was there gamin without loss— pecuniary advantage without any corresponding eactifice. Upon such data as this, then, I might say to your lordships, if you could spare 1,000,0001. of the public income, you might repeal U. 000,0001. of the taxes. From the papers presented to the other house of parliament for the year 1828, after making the necessary eetiuctions from both sides—from the one the reduction ef fected by means of the contract with the Bank of England for tiic payment of half-pay and pensions ; and from the other &ide— al.: side of payments—the ainuigement made with the trustees of those annuities, we perceive that the balance is 3.231,0004 that in 11129 it was 1,711,0001. making a total of 4.942,0001. The average of those two years being 2,471,0001. and taking that average of 2,471,0001. as a fair criterion of the present ear, we may assume for , Mai a balance of at least 2,470,0001. Now l think the circum stances of the country require that a vigorous advance should be nubs by the government in reducing the taxes. In saying this nawever, I beg to be understood as not undervaluing the reductions which have been made. I think those reductions are worth a great deal. (Hear, hear.) The estimates have been reduced 1.300,000 f. now it' we add to this the estimated average reduc tion of 2,470.0001. it gives us in round numbers a sum of 3 .700.0001. If I ant asked what I should recommend to be done with that sum. I say, first, there are three modes In which it We be di'Mtd of - ist. That surplus of 3,700,0001. may be applied to the reduction of the public debt -2d. It may be spelled solely to reduce taxation „ ltd. It may be applied in a manner that sha ft tarn a combination of both modes. The last of these is that '.htch I should think it advisable in Parliament to adopt. While I was eennected with his Majesty's Government there was at one time a surplus of 7,000,0001., of that sum 2,000,0001- sere applied to the reduction of taxation, and 6.000,0001. to the liqu idation of debt. lam aware that debt and taxation cannot now be interfered with in any degree approximating to the same propor- cone ; but I think that a reduction of taxes might be to the extent of 1 ,700,00411., leaving 2,000,0031. as a surplus to guard against c ont i ngenc i es, and to save the Government from the risk ef being obliged to borrow money in time of peace (hear, Ivear, hear ! nom the Duke of Richmond, and one or two other peers) ; bu t I conce i ve that an estimated surplus 0f2,000, ail! prove quite sufficient to prevent any necessity of lug in debt. I should certainly be the last m a n j n your lordship's g hotiee to r reipmend so large a r e d uct i on of taxed" did I - not believe that e t:ie 'situation of the ceiuntry made it a dut in his maj es ty' s m i n i s . tern to atttattin that reduction. IVhen (consider that the various ways in which the taxes operate, I am induced to consider that I dal ni mole than discharge an imperative duty your in calk g lordships' atter:nen to sonic o f the various ways in which taxation o perates. It dt.tihixties the actual amount which a consumer cam afford to en joy of she . several articl es taxe d. In maitufactures it dimi n i s h es the quaruity of capital, skill, and itielustry which can b e a ppli e d to t h e ma,ty oancives on which it directly operates, to say nothing of the souragement which it affords of illicit There is one "lest al surd d mischievous tax, of whrh ae Y desire o :ke ti e the repeal -I mean the tax upon hops. All objec tions to all m in taxes combine themselves against the tax on hops. Di rect ly dat once it interferes with the produce of the soiL You might 34 well tax apples and pears while ase growing, or rather ee. .0 t re they have grown to maturity, awhile they are in the field, tut the duty is levied upon hops before the proprietor has realised afra seirotgedlehsyhitilhine variations on than. There is no produce of the soil so much of the weather aa bops. One year the duty c hap down to 40 G41 . 1 -- the ' m ma y be high wx 4 0 0,0001.-;-the next it may suddenly ()eject of taxation that 000 4 It is fur that +A other reasons the most unfit ta can easily be conceived. Who can point out U tit 'Nem anything more objectionable titan bringing att excise. officer into a garden ? I find that the average amount of the tax on tio PSI 240 ,0001. the repeal of that would give a positive and threct relief to a part of the country on which it peculiarly Freaks and hop d uty , which sufi'ers severely from the present distrems. T h e too, is so local and limited in its le ray is felt with increased force . 0 1wwwdwor that its wee- The dudes on printed cottons ' are vel Y heavy, press thereof which is tion most unequally, and heldy a revenue the collet extremely expensive. Ireland is not affected by --they press solely on hngland—and this consideration is of much importance, se e i ng that Ireland is exempt from 12,000,000- t t lt e t t h ie e e duties on which cottons press 'upon lea' lands Then, besides this, the cumbr ous machinery of die ssir ex and ievelse, by " wi dme th el die osthe oScir l s'wit hy hal w i hk th l e ; ,heir collection is *sally attended. 'The average Maoist of this duty is about 2,000,000/. of which 1,500,000/. or 1,600,000!. is have had it oßen recur, and it at this time was similar in its cheese annually paid back on exportation. Thus the whole of these cum . ter, and might be traced to the same causes as it might et 1816,1821, brous and troublesome operations are gone through for the sake of 1822, 1828, or 1829. This, he confessed, he could not but look upen 400,0001. for that is the average amount received by the Exche. as a bad type of the disease—its frequent recurrence was really appal quer out of the 2,000,0001. levied. I know that there are those in ling ; for the State, like to the i nd ividual, was eirp is:it to more vi tit is house, as there are out ale who have no very ftiendly feeling gorous attacks when more and more disabled for ix:sting then:. He towards the cotton trade, and who regard it as a monstrous evil, attributed great pert of the evils which had ensued to the alters pteying upon the vitals of the nation. But the giant system has dons that had been made in the currency, and he thought been created, and if not supported in full health and vigour, will that it would have been wiser to have altered the standard, or to have consume the resources of the State, and, perhaps, ultimately b ring it given a longer time for the withdrawal of the small notes. One cause, to the brink of ruin. As it stands at present, however, it is the staple too, of the existing distress was unquestionably to be attributed to article of our manufactures, diffusing wealth among all clauses; our the improvement in machinery. The noble duke at the head of the duty therefore is, not to allow the continuance of any tax which in. government had before stated so, and he (Lord R.) believed he tetferes with its prosperity, especially when that tax is so unproduc- was correct. It threw men out of employment and that tended to tive in amount and so expensive in collection. There is another tax Increase the redundancy of the population. The influx of the Irish to which 1 shall now advert—l mean the tax upon leather.—. labourers, who could work at so much under the wages expected, Certainly that tax is not very large in amount as compared with and indeed necessary, for the English, especially in the southern the value of the article taxed—it is only three-halfpenee counties, was another cause of distress, as was also the payment of a pound upon the leather, while the value of that leather is netabove wages out of the poor.rates, and the systein of fixing the amount of 15s. or 16s. a pound. ut the nature of the trade causes great in- that payment according to the number of the family of the convenience to arise from this impost. •No one can form any idea labourer. The unequal distribution of wealth was also a fruit. of the inconveniences thus arising who does not make himself prac. ful source of distress, and if any plan could be adopted to diffuse it tically acquainted with the details. He who is a tanner cannot more generally, it would be a great advantage. The next point to become a currier— he must carry on his business in a particular which Its would refer was that upon which the noble viscount had way. lie must keep his hides a certain time in the vat—so long, so ably expatiated—he meant that of taxation—and no doubt but and no longer—he must try no experiment—he must disregard all the country would experience considerable relief from the projected the discoveries of modern science—chemistry becomes of no value to remission of taxes. He was of opinion with ministers, that th.: had him. He must go on in the same beaten routine.—improvement is crops of the last two years had caused a great deal of the distress shut out from his trade, and endless vexations imposed upon it under which the agriculturists laboured. It would be vanity in him for the sake of a paltry tax, from which the revenue de. to propose any measure of relief, but at the same time it was the rives but little advantage. But repeal it, and you serve every class duty of every member of parliament to suggest any thing that may of the community as consumers ; you relieve the agricultural class appear likely to alleviate the existing distress. The noble lord in particular, as producers of the article taxed. Leather, hops, and next alluded to the currency ; he thought it would be of ail. printed cottons would be somewhat upwards of a million. The re- vantage to make silver a legal tender, and that it would in a great moral of the tax on sea.borne coals (which we understood the noble measure relieve the existing pressure. The next point he wished lord to fix at 600,000!.) would also be a great public benefit. I to call the attention of government to, was the subject of the poor should also recommend a modification of the duties on beer, so as to laws ; he thought they might be much improved, and It they were give encouragement to the production and consumption of strong beer. extended to Ireland, they would have the effect of preventing so The effect of the present system is to render the operations of the ex. many Irish labourers coming over to this country. Nothing, how. else, as respects beer, extremely complicated, and mat inconveniently ever, would relieve the country but retrenchment ; and he was to divide the business of brewing. Thus the man who brews strong happy to say, that he had the greatest reliance on the noble duke at beer cannot brew intermediate ale or small beer ; and here, as the head of the government, that all retrenchment in every depot everywhere else, comes in the whole cumbrous and objection able anent that was practicable would be carrried into effect. He should machinery of oaths and penalties. The modification that I wish to see many taxes that now pressed heavily upon the Indus. should recommend would have the effeet of increasing the con. trious classes of the community done away with, and a property-tax gumption of malt, and affording relief to the agricultural classes. instituted in lieu of them. This would much relieve the burdens In the particular cases, then, my Lords, to which I have adverted, of the state, as it would affect the incomes of absentees, who now i I would say that relief can be afforded to the amount of 1,700,0001. spent many millions a year out of the country, and contributed no. l and as far as that sum goes, it would be a substantial and beneficial' thing towards the public expenditure. He was ashamed to detain relief, and might be safely ventured on. I deplore, as deeply as the house, or he would refer to the corn bleat many attributed any man, the public distress — but the conviction of the prevalence a great deal of the distress to the existence of these laws He of that distress does not lead me to entertain those gloomy, wise- could only say that he, for one, was ready at any time, if he could rable, and hopeless views which the noble lord endeavoured to be convinced that such was the case, to lower the scale of duty— impress upon the house. 1 doubt the prudence of telling the (Hear.) He thought it necessary for their lordships to institute the people that their condition is hopeless—l doubt the pro. most minute inquiry into the state of the country ; but not in the dens of rooting out from their minds all confidence in the manner reposed by the noble lord's (Stanhope's) tr.otion. The legislature. When in danger I should candidly confess the manner of making the inquiry proposed by the noble lord, be eon. amount of it ; but I think there is equal folly and unfair. sidered most inexpedient, and unlikely to answer any beneficial ness in telling them, on the present occasion, that their purpose. He felt, therefore, bound to oppose the motion. At the case is hopeless. All that the noble lord recommends is inq u iry, same time he wished to state that he should vote for an inquiry upon and he would have us believe that there exists in the people a dials°. &different plan. sition to treat with contempt the deliberations of the legislature, Lord ELDON next addressed the House, but in so low a tone and to place confidence neither in its wisdom nor good intentions. voice as to be for a time inaudible below the Bar; when we In that course I cannot bring myself to concur with him. There is catch his Lordship's observations, he was regretting that be new one other point to which 1 have not yet adverted—l mean the ex- obliged to be absent from the House on the first day of the ileseiset,' =proceedings with respect to the charter of the East India for, had he been present, he must have taken the liberty of contra. pony. I am the furthest in the would from wishing to anti- dieting what fell from the noble Duke respecting the distress of cipate the opinion of parliament upon this great question, but the country being partial (hear) ; he was of opinion it was it cannot be settled any how without great advantage to the public; general. The noble Duke had said that the cause of distress was but in saying this, I say nothing as to the manner in which it tusy not under legislative controul--it was the badness of the seasons ; be settled. Again, the present condition of Ireland is such as that was the only cause he had seen assigned for it. Now he entitles us to hope that we shall get through our present (Lord E.) was astonished that no other cause could be discovered difficulties with more ease than through any former crisis of for distress of such a nature that was enough to break the hearts a similar description. There must be great present relief, and of every Englishman.—(Hear.) If the country was then in peat ultimate good from the state of Ireland. Formerly, when such a wretched state, was it not the bounden duty of Parliament looking to that country, we saw nothing but clouds and tern- to take some measures to alleviate the evil ? The country would pests, but now the sun of liberty has arisen, and the gloom be most thankful for an enquiry, and it ought to take place. of tanner years has passed away--as in the natural The people had been most quiet under their distress, and he summer the evil influence .of the atmosphere may retard the hoped to God they would continue to manifest such a disposition.— general progress of the season, so have centuries of bad go. (hear.) but surely k was the duty of their lordships to show a vernment kept back the advancement of Ireland • but the tre- willingness to afford every possible relief. The house was bound, mendous barrier which impeded her progress has been removed, as be before said, to make every inquiry. He thought the House and that country—no longer unhappy Ireland is in a fair way of Lords bad every facility of inquiry, and ought to agree to the to establish her own prosperity, instead of being a clog upon the moti o n of th e n o bl e lord. It was no satisfaction to the people operations of government, and the improvement of the empire at to be told that their suite:begs arose from causes not under legit large. In the condition in which Ireland at present stands, we soon halve controul. The cause ought to be inquired into, and, if expect to see her the scat of industry and the depositary of capital. possible, a remedy ought to be found.—(hear, bear.) From what II hen I state that the contribution of Ireland to the taxes of the had been said on the other side of the house, he took it foe granted country is only 3,800,0001. I think it will be seen that there is much that parliament was to make no inquiry ; but he could tell noble room for advance; and when I call your lordships' attention to the lords that the constitution , compelled them to make inquiry (hear, change which has taken place in its condition, you will perceive that hear, h ear ,) a nd no nobl e lord on hi s (L or d Eld o n' s ) s id e wou ld say there is every prospect of improvement. oking, then, upon this otherwise. The noble viscount who spoke second in that night's subject as I do, I feel bound to oppose the motion of the noble earl, debate had suggested many measures that , if carried into effect, he in the full confidence that his majesty's government will apply their had no doubt would greatly relieve the country (hear, hear.) But best energies to remove the existing evils. whilst ministers say it is nothing but the seasons that cause this The Duke of RICHMOND said that it appeared to be the opi- distress, and the bench of Bishops agree and affirm that is the only nion of his Majesty's Ministers, both from the speech from the cause ' he would ask their lordships what was, or what could, paella throne, and their subsequent statements in Parliament, that the mentdo ? (hear, hear.) The operative, manufacturer, artisan, and distress under which the country was now suffering was partial. agriculturist, must continue under their unparalleled distress (hear, He, however, was convinced that it was far more general now than hear.) lie would not do the noble lead who spoke last the Injustice it was at the panic of 1025 ; and he was equally convinced that it to suppose that he was adverse to an inquiry. in a very great measure resulted from excessive taxation. What. Lord ROSEBERRY said, I never objected to inquiry—all that ever, therefore, might be the disposition of Government to deny ' I o bj ecte d to was the form proposed by the noble lord's motion. I the existence of general distress, he would fearlessly assert, that would agree to any other mode of inquiry which I considered pmts unless they joined to inquire and find out its causes and its re. ticable. medics, it would not, it could not pass away. It had been Lord ELDON continued—The noble lotd objects then to the by many persons attributed to the high rent of land. form of inquiry proposed by the motion. Now, it would be very Ile did not believe that that was the cause for it was well kind of him to suggest to the house any other mode that he might known that those rents had, from time to time, been lowered ; but think practicable—(hear.) One noble lord who had spoken in the if it was so, the country gentlemen of England would, he was quite debate, had pointed out 15 ways of practical relief, and it was the wound, most charitably make the sacrifice—that they would never duty of the house to inquire into every one of them, and without it relinquish the high and honourable character they had so long and the country never would be satisfied. Every information ought to be so deservedly enjoyed. The misery and wretchedness of the ag- obtained, and all the causes and remedies examined into in a ricultural labourers were without parallel in the history of this constitutional way. He (Lord Eldon) did not know whether a country. He trusted that he should not be supposed desirous redundant population, like the seasons,' was one of the causes of exciting feelings out of doors • but he must say, that such a which Ministers alluded to when they said the distress was state of things could not—aye, and he would, as a Peer of Pat- not under legislative controul—(laughter.) There had been Lament, add, that such a state of things ought not to eon. many causes assigned, which he must fairly own he did not under. tinue. In the part of the country with which he was mote stand. He could notforget his ditty as a member of the legislature, particularly connected, able-bodied men were compelled to work and that duty was to inquire into the state of the country, and the on the high roads at 4d. and even 3d. per day, and out of that co u ntry had a right to know the opinion of parliament ; — be should miserable pittance they had to pay for the tools they employed. He therefore vote for the motion. He did not wish to allude to the would ask if noble lords were prepared to say that such things ought measures of last session ; after the best consideration that be had to go on ? It was, he contended, the paramount duty of parliament given to one important subject, be felt bound to oppose it, as he was to inquire into the cause of this increased and increasing distress. fateful of the consequences—that opinion still remained, for he was The people of England had s_ a_ a 2ht to demand it. Who had yet apprehensive it would be attended with danger. He did think not read in the daily paper who, reading, had not felt however, that if the distress of the country could not be altogether the bitter degradation to which the British peasant was re- removed, it might be alleviated, and most sincerely trusted a ma. duced ? In the county of which the noble duke at the head of jority of their lordships would not say to the country, there shall be his Majesty's Government was Lord Lieutenant, the accounts no inquiry, which would be the case if the motion was lost. He of the distress of the agriculturist were most appalling—nor should eve it his support. was the state of the manufacturing interests better (hear, bear.) The Earl of ROSEBERRY explained. He would read some extracts which he had selected from the The Duke of WELLINGTON said, that before he replied to vast mass of misery that had been published, and he would ask the speech of the noble earl who spoke last, be should make a any one but the hangers-on of Downing-street, what emel t. few o bse rvations upon what had fallen from the noble lord and the sion must be formed. [The noble Duke here read several extracts noble duke on the other side of the house. The noble lord had from the newspapers published within the last few months from said that his motion was not directed pe Bt' Manchester ISinningharn, Rochdale, and other manufacturing use, and yet he had contrived to in uce Matter has districts, a nd' inquired whether these facts were not sufficient to his speech. In the saute way the noble duke, who had no caws warrant a call for inquiry. At Blackburn numbers of indlealuals to indulge say feeling of hostility towards him, bad contrived ss existed upon la nil. a week. They were told that our exports were being out an allusion to what had pared In a county with whist. increasing, and that was addaced m a convincing proof of the re. he (the Duke of Wellington) was connected, forgetting at the turning prosperity of the country. It was, however, very easy to same time that similar occurrence had happened 01 other war export a great deal, and get no profit, and that he was convinced ties, and even in that county with which that noble duke was would now be found to be the case. In fact, the state of the ma. reduced nufacturing population was, that one p ar t of th e m was to connected himself. It was the duty of all to do what could be done for the alleviation of the distress. There was no use in giving pauperism with work, and the other for want of work. He expression to personal accusations. All they had to do, was to knew, and should ever most anxiously inculcate the Christian exert their capacities to the utmost for a remedy, and by inquiry. and moral duty of evay man, to the very last, to exert his every (Hear)—and application, to devise the best means of relief. The power to maintain his family. He would never encourage any man noble earl had adverted to the existing distress of the agricultoill against his master, but he would yet say we ought to institute an in. interest as deplorably extensive, and the noble duke who follownil, quiry into the cause that had conduced to the miseries And privations bim bad similarly described the condition of that clam of tee egffie end the want of employment that had reduced the once free and bin" amity. In reply to this he could only say, that no person the peasantry of England to a worse condition than the slave. The IBMs ;more confident than himself that the agriculturists were at pima duke here quoted at some length the charge, delivered by oos if thi lehouring under depression, and he had not disputed the loactaliii right reverend bishops to the clergy of his diocese, and remarked, it was stated by those noble lords at the opening of Parliament. Aft that the canker.worm, as that venerable divine had stated, had hi.. the existence of that distress he did not profess to entertain any dout deed eaten its way into the vitals of our national prosperity, and whatever; but when they called fur a Committee of inquiry, In dr. that it must be ejected before any rational hope of relief could be posed it as inexpedient sod outrage to the usual practice oldie Maps. enterta:ned. Ministers complained, that the distress that existed What remedy had the noble earl it t contemplation when be as. hail been greatly exaggerated, and that those who attended county mended a committee of inquiry? And unless some pried& taxi- ' meetings were but too much disposed to make the moat of ft.— sure of relief could be suggested, it was manifest that such a Pm. One of the inset upright statesmen that had ever adorned that mince could never be productive Of benefit or adviduage. N • house—he meant the l ate Lord Liverpool—had often said that if a nd Ineffectual it must unavoidably prove, if the prepaid= those who petitioned were in error, yet every attention ought to be new plan of relief or project hitherto unheard-of to recommit} paid to their petitions, and he much hoped that thole whit professed Did be wish to have a repeal 'of the corn-law ? If such were ids to look up to Lord Liverpool's example would not neglect to follow rise' he would at twee meet it with unquali fi ed oppostekie it in this instance. All he would ask was a full and free enquiry ; be system worked well, and the event abundantly justified his sad that be would press notwithstanding the array that might ar. anticipations, for the agriculturist received fair value for his la. range themselves around the ministers. A devastating epidemic boor, while at the same time the importation was greater than it bed raged throughout the country its progress was marked with deso. been before. Last year the increased importation amounted to tat ion and dismay. The pedp lc now petitioned for what they had a 5,000,000 of quartets, half of which was from Ireland ; end the re. right to demand, and h e did trust that parliament would not be muneradoo of the agriculturlit was not lower sow them it wee &- prorogued without some effort being made, to show that they were merly. Then, as to the other branches of agriculture, the present desirous to do something to alleviate the distress of their fellow. prices of meet, timber, ihd so forth, were equal to these of the subjects. dram' time*, *nu. the farmer was at the height . of latarssipsrlsy. The Earl of ROSEBERY said, that feeling as he did upon this (Cries of " rio , DO," from the opposition.") The aseerthros he mew occasion, that every individu a l we e called upon to do his best, he I advaddsd might be disputed; but he was prepared t• prove shelf was induced to trouble their lordship* with a few observations. •He e g e osaey, foe they were Ammo! •• substantial tocusterievertilsie could not .but acknowledge that great distress existed in the cooing, facts. (Ow, hear.) 'Z'be next subject to width be should ad. bat tkatWas obtew'eient. ' Stole the tetaiiitatiots of the war, ye 'mit wits' sate df thle resehtlistior 4 714 toothy of Mass. I LI I factures in the country, it was admitted, Was greater now than it I. sd aver been at any period hitherto. No dads whatever existed that this result had been produced by the employment of steam, and the application of machinery. There was likewise a very general con.- petition with our manufacturers throughout the neighbouring B.a. tient on the continent,-a circumstance which could not fall nt =ce its proportionate effect on the state of our operativos These were assuredly main causes of the distress which had been animadverted on so severely, as if attributable teeny mean:tr. Air which Government could be pronounced answerable. The noble lord was certainly not very happy in the topics which he h 3 I selected for fastening censure on the administration. In th Royal speech at the opening of the session, His Illaiesty had re• ascribed the distress of the manufacturing and • agricultur.a ince to the influence of the weather exclusively,as had tem Tinos. tifildrly assumed, but merely expressed a hope that "due weight would be assigned to the effect of unfavourable beiSo,lo, and t.. the operation of other causes beyond the teach of legislative r. seedy or control." That speech also expressed his Majeit) • conviction, " that no pressure of temporary di ffi culty would a dice parliament to relax the determination which they had =- teem], manifested to maintain Inviolate the public credit, and thus to uphold the high character and permanent welfare of th... country." Such was the recommendation from the throne whic: had been referred to by his noble friend, who, no doubt, w.s far from wishing to injure the credit of the country, but who a l , patently laboured under a mistake on the subject of Its resource.. This conclusion he thought hi mse lf justifi ed iu drawing fraai the very nature of the noble lord's suggestions, which it would be absolutely impossible to accede to without Injuring the credit of the country. To take a just view of our present condition, it was ne cessary to call to mind the state of England at the end of the con tinental war. Europe bad been the arena of contending armies for a space of thirty years ; kingdom after kingdom was covered with a filmy forces, and nothing at the time could be thought of but gentles and the means of supplying them. When peace, however, after so long an interval, ensued. the inhabitants of all these sta'es naturally and simultaneously directed their energies and attention to the refinements of civilized society, and manufactures were universally fabricated. The inevitable consequence proved to be a fall in their prices. To enable the house to judge generally of the proportion between present prices, and those which existed at the beginning of the peace, he would read a few entries of items made at the respective periods. In 1814. cotton in England was sold at the rate of 2s. 2d. and, including the duty, at 2s. 41; in 1817, it might be had at Is. Bd. and in 1829 at lid. thus Fogies ively decreasing down to the present times. Again, silk in 1814 was at the rate of H. 4s. and, including the duty, at U. 19s. while, in 1829, it svx* fallen to Bs. 10d. and, including the duty, to 8.. lid. Spanish sheep's wool, an article very common in this coun ry, during 1613 was Is. 2,1. and, includies the duty, Bs. 3d. but in 1829, se find it at 2s. 3d. and, including the duty, at 2s. 4d. This wag obviously beyond the controul of Parliament, and not to be ntiedied by any provisions of the legislature, proceeding as it did, from causes will. out the sphere of parliamentary enactments. Then the price of tit timber in 1814, was 3/. 4s. IW. and duty inclusive, 10!. as. ; in 1829, it only amounted to 21. 4.. and, duty inclusive, to 4/. 191. From those few items their lordships might infer the general depre ciation in the price of all such articles since tire peace. In tact, he himself bad no doubt but manufactunrs, speaking generally, made at the end of the war five times the amount which they at present, owing to the natural effects of foreign competition, steam, and machinery. Their profit now, lie firmly believed, was la. duced lower than the price of the raw material before To go far ther :-in 1814 the price of cotton yarn was 4s. 45d. and in 102 a it was ls. lied, manufactured cotton goods were then at Is. 5(1.- duty inclusive, Is. Bd. while now they were 65d.-duty inclusive. 85d. Irish linen was Is. 7d. in 1814, and but one shilling and three farthings in 1829. Woollen cloths had likewise sustained a simi lar reduction. There was no competition in cotton, no competition in the potteries, no competition in the iron ware, yet all these btanches of trade were reduced in proportion. Both cause and effect in cases like these were, and would always remain, beyond the reach of the control of Parliameht, however well inclined to apply a remedy. He defied the noble lords opposite, with all their powers, to do any thing whatever on the subject which would he at once politic and satisfactory,--oxpedient, and efficacious. Was it fitting, then, he would ask, that Parliament should attempt to interfere, when it was utterly impossible to do good ? (Heim.) He was indeed much concerned to hear of the distress which existed amongst his fellow-subjects, but would feel glad if. rabic lords who agitated the question would only discover in their =ty some judicious means of relief. They proposed a com et the whole house, but it was sufficiently easy to make Huss a saggestion. That was doing nothing, for it led to no re-' rawly whatever. The noble mover would simply recommend them p into a committee, but to what end would they follow lass Mosel if he could lead them no farther P And not one step far. the had he gone. In the course of the speech which had been de livered by the noble viscount, he had adverted to two or three points which he felt it necessary to notice. One of those points related to the batik charter, which he seemed desirous to restrict by a further extension of the act of 1826. On further consideration, this advice, he was sure, would be retracted, for the measure proposed was unquestionably beyond the control of parliament. It was not any longer legitimately in their power to adopt such a suggestion, interference being impracticable, consistently with a due regard foe vested tights. They could not Interfere without a breach of the Bank charter, unless the consent of those whose interests such legislation would effect could be ob. tained. Another of the points alluded to touched upon a repeal of the taxes. He was sure that no one would rejoice more sincerely than himself if to comply with the noble lord's recommendation were really possible. But every kind of economy should be ef fected without injury to the enctive maintenance of our establish ments. It was also suggested that tars[ might be obtained if government made a prudent application of the 3,000,000/. of surplus which had been saved. la reffirelng le this he bad no in. tendon to enter for a moment into the diseunion of a subject al ready amply debated in the House of Commas. But the noble viscount had committed a mistake is epeatiagef our incemiesodint penditure during the last year, and the nati VEa , esnelu sips. There was a difference in the of between them, but his majesty's spinals= adverted to the Ist %mien the estimates of 1829 and those it HMS, end net to the difference between the estimates and expenditure if Mk as the • noble viscount appeased to infer. The diilleseee had peemedied ibenothe duty en ask having been 900,000/. late than in the year. what it was unusually great, and a deficiency of ring =mfa ether departments of the reveaue. Anoka atheake of ail cheeses was to be ascribed to his haring saw& out the receipt boos the Bank while he neglected to aisalue the matte rebores the other side, which would leave sheds= wiltseessin. lag ea It stood. The earplus was greatly ow b aled 44 7AM, for is reality the surplus would net miss= Ie mere than 1,1100,61111 at the utmost. It was their duty, he esedimei, and also their iodination, to cony saving as far as they psoldeally could, but oaring, it should be remembered, wait set always clear gain to the public. (Hear, hear, hear.) No asimeehmseit what. ever had been introduced, except where it vas found that in practical operation it would do no injury to the esonny. Whir. ever an ogee happened to become vacant, it was always the first ob ject to assidm whether business could go on without it in future. 1 e it was ascertained that it could not, their next considered= was. hew it Gould be jadiebusly remodelled and revised, so as to be squally ssevieurble at kis expense. The pensions of the army and navy, es the same principle, were diminished so for as was possible without kabbspig es equity and justice. &telt was the system which ti e posseMpverstuent adopted, and they intsedual missal econany whatever is amid at any time be effected an as to leave th e public service elllmatt and unimpaired. As so the ether proposals of the =hie eariarre, he could amine him, had been made without any odibet...he meant that relating to a sibs currency. (Hew.) silver and pia now circulated on the seam principle whit* *pleat= betant'ini. Silver then was a legal tender in tale for only fol, but world diculate to any ulterior amount by weight. It was at pre. mat a legal tender in tale, only up to 40s. bet might circulate by weight mink's to any amount beyond it. The noble lord, how. ever.lind them who thought with him, would have oilier made'a legal reader to a still higher amount. But be had given much at. tendon and consideration to the subject, and wow felt convitund that silver to •a higher amount would ilwaye sees tarots to the bask, as it had done formerly when the laquilleftt was tried, and could never in that ease be forced loft thistles. The entire matter had been lung made the _said* of eirrorst deliberation, and the noble lord 'bight rest satielled that Wuhan felt as disposition to neglect it. Another point kstradootd bore upon the shipping interest, which was likewise demelhed • be in distress, He Could sincerely declare to their Ittithipe that no ens felt mere anxious to encourage the shipping iheseme 'than he were. He had always been deeply impressed with • Nem Si the portanee of the British shipping as a wins of security and ea object of national pride, while at the sa m e Cote it had so vat • share w ministering to the logurms, necessaries sad sour its of society. (Hen.) Nor solid soy penis• eatruated with a 'pars Mike =Weigand= of this country be wade, of hie high Aim, or at Air lie diesksege if his .duty who did not enter a *Oar wetness. The at/eying labs= at proem be coorei%e4l .o be is fu l employincnt, or Oen suirelnatasekbut the profits of ship owners, for eadess sultriest rastenr, were net saw m base as they W been. Their peollotwere =saran& tweedy. by she expensw s Jet the ship, the peoaridens supplied, and •theceeriwA details con nected with their bcalisses, .bst they hiewise in a great 441iitee of the wages- of the pope who wese;oisipieged. • Bearing ens in mind, they might in some mom= maga= for existing depression *hen it was known that •00111111 SIM reetived - W. p.r enolgh, whereas they bad got but Os. r feemerelsne , . The a elle lord Oberrvest that the humiliator of foreign ship. by the re. 'dignity i7stenv *as unfavourabie , to the in'erests of our native ship.orrners."Bet once the yam 11114' these existed the -sump t nbeesitfty fur *raking the transport of oar 1001611 a-. cheer : lIM wauei {