Star. — London, England, 1820-07-12 00:00:00

I V Nes of the nobler bird into the weaker—(Laugher). re was of Opinion Mr. Swann lost his cause lay being his own Counsel, thereby verifying the old saying, that " the man who pleads his own cause has not a wise one for his client r' Mr. BURRELL said, that when Sir M. Lopez was imprisoned, he was labouring under the severest domestic afflictions, and himself in such a bad state of health, that in all probability the: completion of his punishment would be sending him to his grave. , He thought, indeed, it was punishment enough for the offence, to send a man of his rank and fortune to the common jail of the county. A Memasa stated, that the hardship in Afr. Sivann's case was aggravated by circumstances of domestic affliction—one of his children was at death's eoor, and the other was in a most deplorable state, - - w hilst he was prevented by the Order of the Court ring's Bench, Under which he was now suffering, -.: rorn being able to render them any assistance. A BERG ROM lIIE considered it as an extreme a:t on the part of the House to interfere in this case, and therefore he must oppose the motion. It would ,c attended with very prejudicial effects if the opi nion should prevail that the house disagreed with the Judges. On other subjects, particularly that of libel, sentences had been passe.] that had appeared to many to be too severe; but no attempt had ever /Ten made to bring them under the cognizance of the House; and much surprise had been felt when opinion of that kind had been expressed by the la:e Mr. Whitbread. He must oppose the motion. Mr. BROWNLOW observed, that if the House interfered in one case, it would be impossible to draw the line of distinction. Mr. CANNING saw no necessity for the motion, which he hoped the Noble Lord would withdraw, as no impediment elibted to a proper consideration of the case in the proper quarter. Sir J. MACKINTOSH concurred with the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite;. and u there ap p: red to be an understanding, that due considera- OA would be given to the case of Sir hfaoaseh Lo pez in the proper quarter, he hoped his Noble Friend ivruld by induced to withdraw his motion. Lord J. RUSSELL said, if .he understood the state ment of the Noble Lord, this case was already under consideration—(No, no, from the Ministerial Benches). The Noble Lord had said, that with or witluslt this motion, the same consideration would be given to the case of Sir Manasseh Lopez ; and he (Lord J. Russell) was satisfied with this declaration. Ile stated at the commencement of his observations, that there were some obstacles and difficulties in the way of a lair consideration ofthis case; but as the Noble Lord Lad assured him that those difficulties would be re rwved, he was ready to admit that the case would L. much better taken into consideration in the quar ter which had the power of mitigat;ns the punish n:ent, than in this House. Of this ipnnciple he had I ever entertained the smallest doubt, and he thought, thelefure, that much of what had beenurged by his lienourable Friends around him, might have been' ' s ; .ared. 1-k had certainly never intended to say, t::at in any ordinary case it would be proper for this' 11,:csc to consider whether mercy ought or ought Let to be'estended ; but this was a case in which the Iliivileges of the House were peculiarly involved, and it: which the House therefore might have properly in terposed. After what had fallen from the Noble Lord, he ceuld have no objection to withdraw his motion. BOURSOS DYNASTY IN SOUTH AMERICA. Dr. LUSHINGITON rose in pursuance of the no tice which he gave, to move for a copy of any offi cial communications relative to a negotiation be tween the French Government and that of Buenos A' re. for the establishment of a Bourbon Dynasty in South America. It appeared to him to be of very considerable importance, that these documents should be laid upon the table of the House, and he should proceed 'therefore to relate. the transactions which took place about thirteen months ago between the Court of France, and the Agent of the Provisional Government of Buenos A.yrez.. The transaction ori ginated with tfie Secretary for Foreign Affairs of the French Government, and was one of a most extraor dinary character. At a period when the most arni. cable relations were supposed to subsist between the Courts of France and Great Britain, the French Go veinment, if his information were correct, was treacherously and perfidiously engaged in originatir.g measures, which, if not subversive of, were at least highly injurious to the commercial prosperity of this country. At the time when we were assured in speeches from the Throne that foreign nations enter tained the most amicable dispositions towards us, a negotiation was carried en between the French Go vernment and the Goiernment of Buenos Ayres, for )e purpose of placing the Prince of Lucca (nephew of Fe - dinand Vll.)upon the Throne of that Province. !l was obvious, that if ever unfortunately such a pro. ject should be carried into exxution, it would tend to the infinite detriment of this country. In the very first document on the part of the French Govern ment, if be were rightly informed, it would appear, that there was an express stipulation that'England was not to be apprised of the .freaty. The negocia tion was to be conducted behind her back in perfect secrecy ; and it wits further stated, that the Courts of Austria and Prussia were decidedly favourable to the person of the Prince of Lucca. The project was to receive the sanction of all the Powers of Knepp% in' chiding Spain ; but not one word was said of Eng land, nor was the previous consent of this country considered at all necessary in this transaction. In the Notes submitted on the part of the.French•Govcrn znent, it was actually stated, that France would sup tort this project with such anaval pad milltrityTfirce ,ps would enable the Prince . of Litcca . tocuntend with :;ly State which might presunie to isteratro• W hat ' l :ate could be h ere a ll u d e d to but• Great Britain? It 'void(' fie wasting the time of the House to argue that nerference. could be apprehended f rom any other rlarter than front this .coantri • Some objections started by the Envoy from. Buenos Ayres as the practicability of the arrangeMent, but they were answered by fresh arguments and fresh induce= n.iv.-.ts. The French Government was ready to agree t.:,tt the Prince of LUCCa should marry one of the Ps in cesses of the Court of Brazils, and to the cession of t.le Banda Oriental to the province of Buenos Ayres. the document further stated the possibility of Great Britain wi s hi ng to p l ace a British Prince upon .the I iirone of Bue nos A yres , an d commented upon the c . ,11 s lud calamities which would result to South . 1..... . • ..- . . America from such to the religions feelings a long tirade upon the.i ligion:would receive from was glad to state, that declined entering into and approbation of Great Britain should not be preliminary, because it was one of the many circuit!. stances which proved the earnest desire, on the pale of the Government of that Province, to conciliate the good wishes of this country. If the documents_ to which he had.alluded, and some others for which he should not now move, were laid upon the table of the House, he trusted he should be able to convince the House and the Country that this Government wet imperiously called upon to acknowledge the inde pendence of the States of South America—(Hear!) No European State, except France and Spain, had i 'right to interfere with the conduct. which Great Bri , tain might choose to pur s u e as t o t h e recogn i t i on * o f South American independence. If Prussia had been privy to the transaction which be had detailed to the House, she had forfeited all pretence to such right of interference. As to Spain, he had no doubt that she had some secret understanding with the French ne gociators, for it was scarcely passible that France would have entered-into such a negociation without first sounding the feelings of the Spanish Government:4 He maintained that when a Colony had revolted froni, the parent country, and succeeded in maintaining its independence for a number of years, it became a mere question of policy, whether any other Stateshoula think proper to recognise its independence ? If chili were otherwise, the independence of the United States of Holland and of North America would have been still unaCknowledged. It was extremely difficult to carry on any diplomatic relations with a Colony so parated from the parent State, unless this principle were admitted. .It•was true that we carried on trade with Buenos-Ayres, and that an English Consul was established there, but still we felt the extreme incon venience of carrying on diplomatic relations with a Government whose Authorities we were not disposed to recognise. If Spain were a party to the negociai tion which he had stated to the House, or if she was reduced to such a state of political imbecility that France had taken her diplomacy into her own hands, Great Britain WAS no longer bound to. consider the views or wishes of Spain with respect to her Colonies. Wheu a Government was so reduced and debilitated as not to be able to protect its own interests, other States were entirely free to pursue clot line of policy which, consistently with justice and honour, they might deem most expedient. It was a curious cir cumstance, that this negociation was avowed to spring from the principles of the Holy Alliance ! The basis of that Alliance 'was the total extinction of all the Republics in Europe. The Republics.of Holland, Venice, and Genoa, were, already extinct; and in the same spirit the Continental Courts had resolved to do away with the remains, or rather the buds of freedom which now existed in South Ame rica: Upon the conduct of France it was scarcely possible to express himself in l;inguage which was too strong. After the waste of so much B:itish blood and treasure, after the un p ara ll e l e d exertions which this country had made to place the House of Bourbon upon the Throne of Frdece, scarcely was the signature of the Meaty dry which restored, a second time, to their feeble hands that sceptre which they had neither the wisdom to hold, nor the courage to fight-for, when they turned round upon their bene factor, and inflicted an injury upon the country to which they.-svere bound 'by every tie of gratitude. The conduct of France towards Great Britain he looked upon as treacherous and perfidious—(llear). —The Ma. and Learned Member dwelt at consi derable length upon the advantages which the com merce of the country would derive from a recog nition of the independence of South America, and concluded by moving for " Copies of all official com munications received by his Majesty's Government relative to a negociation between the French Govern ment and any Government, or the agent of any Go vernment of Buenos Ayres or Chili, for the esta blishment of a Monarchy in South America in a Prince of the House of Bourbon." Lord CASTLEREAGH objected to the motion, on the ground that the information alluded to by the Honourable and Learned Gentleman had reached Go vernment in such a shape that it could not be laid on the table ; and observed, that he would not be drag ged, by the example of the Ilonourable and Learned Gentleman, into an abstract discussion on assumed facts, which could only lead to great misconceptions both at home and abroad. He by no means denied the existence of the documents in question (which had been transmitted to Government by the Naval Meer on the River Plate station), but on the face of them it was evident that extensive communication must be ibad with other quarters, in order to enable the Bri- Itish Government to take a full and accurate view of the subject. The Honourable and Learned Gentle man had, indeed, made the immediate object of his motion merely a stepping-stone to a review and cen sure of the whole policy of this country, as it respected Spanish America. Into this extensive discussion he would not • enter. He regretted, however, that the Hon. and Learned gentlernan had endeavoured to raise presumptions injurious to foreign Powers, with reference to the immediate subject of his motion.— To throw out such vague insinuations was certainly 110 t, the way to strengthen the interest of this coun tryabroad. With respect to what was termed " the Hai Alliance," he (Lord Castlereagh) had had ai l many opportunities of observing its spirit as the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, 'and he had never seen a single instance of conduct in any of the Powers of ' r ivhith it was composedcalculated to awaken distrust. 'He knew not why the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had pointed the finger of suspicion particularly at Russia, for. that Power and Austria were mentioned together in the same paragraph in the document in question. If there was any thing in the transaction injurious to the good faith of the Governments impli cated, he repeated that it was the first instance of such a.spirli, that he had observed since the establish ment of the Holy Alliance—a Confederation, the sincere with of which he. firmly believed to be the maintenance of the peace and tranquillity of the world ; and the honour of every . individual rower composing which had hitherto been untainted.. As the }ion. and Learned Gentleman bad not laid sufficient grounds for his motion, and as the document, if pro duced, would remain a dead letter on the table t be should certainly oppose its production. .., . r: ' . • .. . .- tientte o n the dis ujec su of suchthere importance was so such attendance, of **Wm He did not know languid interest was attributable. H. sorny it wiereitp,be bofieved s either at abroad, that the iF i euptry wis so absorbed by the magnitude of its do m estic distresses and embar rassment{, that it had no time or disposition to attend to its foreign relations, and that Parliament ; by neg lecting the duty which oar ancestors had always so solicitously performed, ,that of watching our com mercial and political connection with other States, and of exhibiting the utmost sensibility on all:points of national honour, should be supposed to eshibit an indifference amounting almost to preparation fur sub mitting to a foreign yoke. He hoped that such a character of this nation would not go forth to the world. He hoped that France or any other Power would not be told that it might take what measures it pleased to ruin, our interests or tarnish our honour, but that we must shut our eyes to all such practices. The Noble Lord did not deny that Government were substantially in possession of the documents moved for by his Hon. and Learned Friend. Why then not produce them ?. One thing struck him as very extraordinary. The negotiation mentioned in those documents was, it seemed, opened at Paris, in May, 1819, at the time the British House of Commons was passing the Fo reign Intercourse 13ill ; so that at the very moment when we were sacrificing the interests of this country; the agents of the Spanish Government, of France, Russia, Atistria, and perhaps Spain itself, consider ing those prospects as illusory, and their realization as impracticable, were engaged in founding a Mo narchy, one of the chief purposes of the establish. , meat of-which was hostility to the interests of Great' Britain—(Hear, hear).—lf our Government did not know of that negociatiOn at the time that it was commenced, they were extremely culpable for being' , so deficient in intelligence ; if they did know of it, they had drawn Parliament into a measure which they would never have adopted had they been aware of the existence of the negociation—(Hear, bear). He admitted that the situation of Spanish America and Spfin was very peculiar at the present moment. He certainly thought that the recent transactions in Spain had made a material change in all the relations between that country and her former colonies. When' the question was, if Spanish America should be com pelled to return under European despotism? he marked the proposal with his decided detestation. But with the new state of things, hisview had some what changed. To realm under European despotism was one thing—a union of European and American ~Spain, on the principles of freedom, was another. If , such'a union were sincerely desired, no other nation had a right to say anything to it. With respect to the'probable result of the deliberations of the popular Assembly now sitting in Spain, he would not give a precipitate opinion; this, however, he would say, that Spain had already conferred two - of the greatest be nefits on mankind that ever had been contened by a nation. The first was, the expulsion ofi an invader from her territory by the mere energy of the . people, with little aid from regular military force —an, event affording the best example that had ever been given to Europe, of the successful assertion of national in dependence. Whatever deigns of ambition might be entertained by any future conqueror, Spain would Ibe the last country which he would venture to ap iproach. He was sorry to observe, by the smiles of 'the Gentlemen" opposite,. that they were thinking of party questions, which, he could assure them, did not at all mingle with his view of the subject.—Ano ther great service which Spain had done to the cause of mankind was, that she had established her liberties by a revolution hitherto unstained by crimes or blood. This service, not infer for in importance to the first, she had, however, yet to complete by still more diffi cult steps. For himself, he trusted that the spirit of political Reform had become too powerful to be re sisted. It had crushed all its open adversaries. He firmly believed, that the only danger to which it was exposed, arose from the passions or errors of popular leaders. Nothing also could defeat or retard the pro [gress of the spirit of improvement ; and he firmly believed, that every Government that engaged in a struggle with that spirit would be destroyed—(Hear, hear).—The Spanish nation had formerly evinced l ' great virtues and wisdom; and he trusted they would profit by the experience which the world had had on the subject of liberty. He trusted they would disco ver from that experience, 'that nothing was so eaat as to overshoot liberty ; and that a free Constitution was naturally surrounded,by various kinds of tyran nies, into some of which, if pushed too far, it must inevitably be precipitated. He trusted that they would engraft their reformation on the ancient prin ciples of their Constitution—that they would connect their new liberties with all the classes into which sob ciety was divided—that they would attach every great body of people in the State to the preservation of •those liberties—and that they would' not add another to the unfortunate list of nations, who, in the first de lirium of their joy on emancipation from thraldom, had inflicted wounds on freedom which ages could not cure—Vicar, hear!). • Mr!CANNING opposed the motion, as quite un usual under the circumstances of the case. On the hypothesis of the validity of the docUment in question Government might be disposed to feel as strongly as the Honourable Mover and his Honourable and Learned Friend ; but although it might be perfectly harmless, or-even beneficial, for the Honourable and Learned Gentleman to reason on such au hypothesis, .it could scarcely be expected that Ministers would take up the subject hopothetically, and talk of the indignation which they might feel against Austria, or Russia, or France, or Spain, if such and such alleged facts should turn out to be true. With respect to the coincidence pointed out by his Honourable and Learned Friend in the passing-of the Foreign Inter course Bill and the commencement of the alleged ,negociation, it was remarkable; but. if true, he should still rejoice that we had discharged our duty ; for in public as in private life "honesty was the best policy." Adverting to the change Which his HOnourable end Learned' Friend had avowed to have taken place in 'his sentiments respecting the connection between Spain and- Spanish America, he observed that it was now apparent that his Honourable and Learned Friend i opposition to the Bill of last Session was founded, not in love to the latter, but in hatred to the former. Hjs Honourable . and Learned . Friend's object, it was now evident, had been, not to belle. fit the one, but to wound the other. This was an ;114 • Lan event. It contained an aßpeal' ings of the Soilth,Asielicasie t and cation of a s the injury which the Catbalic iea thin an atten4 Pe from British interposition. -He to what this :hat the Envoy for Bowie , ' Area should he sor ito any treaty to which the consent home or abra ... •'4.w , i additiotial pr'e6( that those who spoke most loudly of liberty, were seldom so really attached .to it as • more moderate assertors of its value—(Weer, heah). He was an enemy to prophecy:. and therefore he would not pretend to predict what e ff ect tbe meal res of the popula r assembly in Spain would have on the Spanish provinces; but looking back on history, he would confidentfy assert that whatever benefits a metropolitan district might derive from a popular assembly, the state provinces under such an as sembly hadAwayt been one of suffering. If, there fore, he were animated by an ar d ent so li c i tu d e for the • cause of South America, so far should he be from re tracting any opinion he had entertained on the sub ject during the existence of the late Government in Spain, that the change in that Government would in duce him to assert that opinion with tenfold vehe mence. His Hon. and Learned Friend had talked of the expulsion. of the French from Spain by the mere energy of the people, with " little" aid of re gular. military - force. Hi s Honourable and Learned Friend was not in Parliament at the commencement of the Spanish contest. He would tell him, that only ten years ago, the , man who had ventured- to predict that Spain would be released from the yoke of France, would have -been laughed to scorn—(H'ear). The Spanish people were at that time called weak bigots, incapable of raising an arm in their own defence, and he would have been considered a mad man who should have anticipated the actual result. It was true that the Spanish people had suLequently made great efforts ; but when his Hon. and Learned Friend talked of their having only "little" regular military aid, he wished to ask whether the history of the victories of Salamanca, of Vittoria, of, Tala vera, of the Pyrenees, with all the other glorious achievements of the illustrious Wellington, was so vague and remote,:that his Hon. and Learned Friend could call the assistance which England bad ten= • dered to Spain a " little" military aid ? Left to itself, the cause of Spain must have been hopeless. —Nothing could have saved her but the celebrated march of our illustrious Commander. Now, how ever, all this was to be called a " little" military aid, and was to be sunk, because Spain had had a Revolu tion, and the benefits of a Revolution must be talked of. He was as warm a friend for the extension of liberty ,and of liberal institutions throughout Europe as his leknourable and Learned Friend ; but he never was 'disposed to prefer new institutions because they were new, and to detest established institutions .because they were established. He retained the same wishes with respect to South America as formerly.; but he must oppose the Honourable and Learned Gentle man's motion, considering it to be altogether with out ground. Mr. ELLICE expressed his earnest hope that his Majesty's Ministers would take into their serious con sideration the great capital which was involved in the South American trade. That trade was in all its branches of the highest importance to Great Britain, and called for the peculiar protection of Government. Sir F. OMMANNEY opposed the motion. Dr. LUSHINGTON, after some observation's -in reply, stated, that he had no wish at s present to press his motion contrary to the wishes of the House.— Motion withdrawn. EAST INDIA COMPANY'S VOLUNTEERS. On the motior. of Mr. CANNING, that the East. In dia Company Volunteers Bill be read a third time, - Mr. CREEVEY begged to offer a few observations against the Bill. The Honourable Member proceeded ' to argue, that the East India Company were not, at present in a situation to support a corps of 850 men, as was proposed by this Bill. These men, it was true, were their porters, but it would be ridiculous to suppose that men who worked all day could'act efficiently, if called upon in any sudden emergency. Twenty-five years - ago a simlla'r proposal was made by the Company, but then the country was in afilu-. .'once, and the resistance to be made was against - a foreign enetny. Now the country was in the jaws of bankruptcy, and the power to be raised was to resist and put down the distressed manufacturers of the country. The Honourable Member, after several other observations, concluded by moving, as an Amendment, " That the Bill be read a third time on this day six months." Mr. HOBHOUSE seconded the motion. Mr. MONEY supported the original motion. t Mr. HOBHOUSE contended that there could be no need of such a force,at a time when we had a standing army of 92,000 men, of which 36,000 were appointed to the pretection of Great Britain. In-the most usurping periods of our Government, in the reign of Cromwell, the spirit of the country was kept down by a force of 32,000 men, including Ireland ; he saw no reason, therefore, for any additional force, and therefore heshould oppose the motion. . Mr. W. WILLIAMS supported the motion, be. .cause he conceived Volunteer or Militia Regiments the most constitutional force that could be used in any case of internal commotion, or for the preserva lion of the public peace. He was averse to a large standing army, as he had- already shewn by his vote, and therefore it was that he supported that motion. . The Bill was read a third time and passed. ALIEN BILL. On the motion of Lord CASTLIMEAGE, that the Report of the Alien Regulation Bill be received, Mr. J. P. GRANT said, he wished to suggest toO clauses to be inserted in this Bill ; the first was, that Aliens ,about to - be removed from this' ountry under this Bill, should have a choice of selecting-the pOrt to which they wished to be removed, and the ships in which they should take their passage (they heining the expense), provided always that no Unneeessaty delay, should take place. The next was, preventing the removal of Alien women married to natnril born subjects of this country. The SPEAKER said, that those clauses could not " be proposed unless the Bill was re-conimitted. Mr. J. P. GRANT said; object st as to have the clauses entered on the Journals, he did not mean to press-them.—Clauses Withdrawn. The Report was then received, and the Bill was ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. IRISH SPIRWS INTERCOURSE BILL. • The CHANCELLOR of the EXCLIAQ.Uak,tope Bos , pone the cousideradon of this DMA CominitteeA . 84 1' 4 the desire of mitre; Menthes.% 'The Night Gon e. man said,,thet be would pitixtse a clause to. rtlalitikt4e ebrepob of spirits to beistported from Ireland to this c ialateTh - SHAW string*/ urged the-nectisliy of hringinsthe Ed* feet undor immediate consideration. After the pleuge that SA I been given to the Irish Mullets in 1816, he was suck:Lista to 1 r. • t . s n Z • . 8 " • • . • - • :•.‘c• • I ' 1 ~. , .• .... ... -. ,