Star. — London, England, 1829-02-28 00:00:00

rre .le , hid ant remain silent on the object. It not only effected the persons who were pressed into the service, ut likewise very msterially injured the commercial in terests of the county. It the system was not altogether done away with, an inquiry should at least be made into, k. He expected that such a step should be taken at this particular time, when the Government were doing so issitch for the general good. The system of impressmenti was *material) y injurious to the shipping . trade, e-p ci slly the Colonies, where the seamen in merchant vessels' onstrained to enter into the navy—it necessarily owners of the ships to a very great expense and eience. He not only objected to the system, but . to introsting the power of impiessn ent in the of subiedinaie ofhcers. If it were to continue, the should be ukthe hands of some officer who would it properly. lie wished to know what were the ions of the Government on the subject ? ;. CLERK ho a vd the lion. Member would not that he should enter into a detail of the system ow. He should merely say that the Admiralty ii•tention of bringing any measure before the to do assay with the present sty-Arm. The Hon. fiber was aware that in tme of pe.ce it arts not and he thought that eren in case of war it Would not now be fund necessity to have recourse to It. lie knew, however, the necessity of manning the Bsitish navy well, and he doubted the policy of Parlia ment interfering to deprive them of the power of call ing upon every seaman to enter into the set vice when their services should be found necessary. Mr. HUME said, alhough he could not agree with the Right Honourable Gendeman that the system should be continued, yet he believed it was not esual to discuss the subject when they were about to enter upon 'the Estimates. If the Hon. Member (Mr. Robinson) would fix upon any day to bring the question before the consideration of the House. he would sopport him. Tim Home then resolved itself Into a Committee. Sir GEORGE CLERK felt much satisfaction in being able to inform the House that a considerable re duction had taken place in the Estimates of this year compared with those of last. The attention of the Ad. l rniralty had been directed to the state of all the navy, establishments in the empire, in order to see what VW ductions could be made. Already a very great reduction 'Of expense had taken place in those establishments, and arraugements were making for still greater. The House, however, was aware that, though some alterations might be made, great care should be taken lest they should fall into worse errors than those they wished to cortect. In'the first place, de number of men employed was the cane as last year. The same circumstances still existed I in the east, which required t h em to increase their :qua- I dron in the Mediterranean ; and there, as well as on other stations, it would be found that the British naval force was not greater than that of other nations, Of than; Wes necessary from their foreign relations. It was ne cessary for him to explain the - apparent increase of wages,, as they were three shillings per n.an pet month more than last year. This arose trim having removed 'the charge of slops and clothes, which were last year charged to the account of stunts, to the m , n's Wage.. The sum, of the inc ease' in this item was . 69,0001. Is would be found that the reductions ifs th e stores were more than that. The vote for previsions was jiliviise greater than last year ; but this, as the Committee wete aware, arose lain from an increase of the victuals to the men, bat from the increase of the puce of piovisions. Thi* formed ate increark of one shilling per man per mouth. The amount of the charges of these two items amounted to 1,6574004 This, with the addition of the 3s. per held on the rate of wages, made this branch 78,0001. greater than it was in the 1811 year, but still, by reduc tions in other brafiches, there wciuld be a reduction on the . whole of I 17,0001:es compared with the last year. The Committee were aware that at, the end of the last Sedan of Parlianieut the Board of Ldngitude was abo lished.. There were then three. scientific Gentlemen employed - at a salary of one hundred a year each. When theßoard 'was put doWn it appeared to the Admiralty that, as 3001 . a year was so small a sum, and it would be necessary to have some persons to refer to on scientific subjects, it would be better to continue the salary to those Gentlemen., It was only Mambas of the Royal Society who were to be employed; and salves be stated the names of those who were employed, the Committee would admit that theyConld hardly have snide a better choice. The first 'was Dr.' Young._ the next Captain Seville, and the third an eminent chymist, Mi. Farraday. He thought, under these circumstances, there could be no objection to continue ibis sum. There teas also in the estimates of last year 1,0001. allotted for rewards and experiments which was at the_ disposal of the Board of Longitude. This sum was , likewise to be continued. The next item was the charge for the Navy Pay office. Thisivas a matter which had swatted his particular attention, in cons, quence of the-debarkation of,an individual from this office to the actions injury of the public. They wished to make such arrangements as would . preyent the recurrence of such a circumstance; but as all alterations in , this department were made by legislative enactment, the matter would of course come brims the House. A - circumstance of the same kind bad taken place in Greenwich Hospital, and with re-. pill to it the same course must be pursued. In the Navy Office a very considerable reduction would take place. There were nit* Commissionets, which were, to be reduced to. sir. W ith respect . 'to the, Clerks in 'the o ffi ces, be could _not speak ao exactly as to the number; but arrangements were making for lessening the superannuated list by appointing the junior clerks to act as supernumeraries, and, making tines fill up tile vacancies as they should occur. The reduction to be Medlin the number of Commissioners of the Navy would require the authority of sn Act of Parliament before it could be carried into effect. It would, be new- • satyr to Introduce a Bill to make the signatures of two Coptini4iOneri equally effective as the signatures of three Commissioners, which were stow necessary. The number cf Commissioners being reduced, if . threesigna tures were required the duties of the ofSce_wou ld become much tait'heavy; there were such an immense number of documents to be signed. As to ' the Victualling Office, it was also intended that there should be a ye s -• i i duction' of the number .\f tomasissiOsieks. that de., pumice s The present number , was' seven, and it era propleci to reduce the number to six.. It had been bound' impossible to catty reduction further is, 041 particular depaitineet. Tsse,unstist l iiiOneri.siefe. some t abeent on' profersiotial business, and it was ne cessary to hAre Awn others to Supply their plaices and those font Commissioners, With therhairMan en4' deraty.thaidnafi, comprised khe'Board. ..lo the Esti. i mate lot the duck jai& there was a cdticihn of &OWL ' as computed with the Estimare . of last year ; and he he a ped.beiore the y ear was over , nd...indeed, before any tuithe'r apid.cation was made to Parliament fqr an ad, vdnee:e9*il.r.si E-tim.4s ) . that a much:larger seduction wtiukltweffected. It tau very easy to talk of rookie,* reductions, but he could assure Hon. Members that even when reductions were determined upon, it ,rrquiresi greafertitioll to terry iher*.iiitt;effect :T: .Alleal.)_ Vim *es a reiLitii - dtof 10 001. on the sum required fos•th , of the wages of a , Cfi:ers in the duck-yatot, a ti he Is , be bt a oat not nisi eft4 ht. ova Iva fee& • • ro• I. ibw t be *tit its • • • h 4 t he ..:. • :r : ; • + 'AZ «40-1;1. 5.., t. • . : .. . and that redaction was produced by employing p' sandier panther of artificer& The iiitimate last year wee 490.0001. and the estimate for the present year was, 480.0001. for the wages of artificers. It was only fair to mention that the decrease in the amount of the esti mate for stores were merely apparent. The apparent increase of the vote for wages was a mere transfer of 00,0001. from the vote for stores. The estimate under this head,did not vary mate. ially i ftoin the estiosate at last year, for it had been thought impolitic to permit the naval gores of the country to become exhausted.—. The item for pilotage was recently inserted in the estimates; 40,0001. was the sum fixed upon, but . the teal outlay always exceeded that sum ; and it was now proposed to add 10,0001 to the last estimate,. which would bring the estimate much nearer tile teal *a rose. There was very little difference in the remain tior estimates, as compared with those of last year.' There was a small increase in the medical establish.' ascot, and a considerable reduction in the charge of thei naval college at. Portsmouth. Last year there were seventy-two students in the college, and now the num ber was eighty. The former system was, that half the students, who were the sons of naval and military i fficers, paid nothing,. and the other students paid 701. a year. The students who were the sons of officers now paid someihing equal to the expense .of their maintenance, and the other students paid 1201. a year. The full benefits of the present regulations did not ap pear in the present estimate, but would take effect berme the. next year. It might be interesting to some Members to learn that the Commissioners of the Admiralty had directed the Professor at the Naval College at Ports mouth to give lectures on the scientific subjects con nected with the profession. All naval and military Officers would be admissible to those lectures, which would not be attended with any increase of expense to the public. TO next estimates were the super-. annuation allowances and the half-pay list. There was no alteration worth mentioning in either of those Estimates. There had been an inctease in the amount of the Esti-. mate for the pensions of Officers widows, and it was .to be feared that Estimate would continue to iocresso. The House aas aware that the restrictions as to.tbe marriage of Officers widows, had been removed in di •ference to they sense.of.. the House. Since that reside• tins oa s t. -been removed the increase of expente wit. much greater than bad been anticipated. Indeed tbe 'increase was so great, that it was a consideration whether the restriction ought not again to be' n- 1 troduced. The seismal '.f the regulation, however, had been forced on the Government by the sense of the House, and it %vivid therefore ill become the Govern. ment to propose a return to tilt-se restrictions; but the subject was worthy of consideratiOn. An alteration had, been introduced as to the fund from which widows pensions were paid. It had been the custom to put a certain number of fictitious mess on the books of every , ship, and the sums thus saved were applied towards the payment of widows pensions. This system had been pot rid of, as it. was found that it only created confusion loth, account, and gave more labour to the corks-- (Hoar, bear).. A small abatement was made from the' pay of officers, and an abatement of 3d. in the pound on the half_ pay of naval officers; and the sums thus created went to defray the expense .of widows' pen ions. It w.-s a question, however, whether the sums' thus paid by the public should not be voted directly. and rho real amount of the widows pension list would then be seen. There was a reduction of no less than 80,0001. On the estimate for works. The only new work now going on was the buildingof an engine house *trot tansouPose hicls was about to be erected for th e purpose cf repaints the engines of steampackets.When any part,of dip macbraery; of those vessels, got out of'order, it.had been necessary. to send theni round to the river, by -which their service& were lost for a considerable time.. This loss of tin* would be prevented by the erection of the engine house at Portsmouth, which wooldhe effected at an expease of 74001. .The.Comnsittee would observe that the esti mates contained an item of 156,9001. for the works goins on at Sheerness; bet it was not intended to take thet vote during the present year. The works at Sheer..., nets were now placed bEyond all danger, and if. It was 'found' necessary they might be finished. in a very, Short time ; but at. present the works were to 4 suspended, and it was not intended to call upon Par., liament for- any part of .the vote during the present .year. He had already stated that the estimate for pro visions was larger this year than it bad been last year, as there had been a considerable increase in the, prices of provisions. It was not necessary to trouble the Com mittee with any further details. The amount of the Navy Estimates for the present year was, in round numbers, 5,878.0001. whilst the amount last year was 5,995,0001. The redaction, therefore, on the Estimates for this year was 117,0001—(Hear). The Honourable Baronet then moved the first Resolution, which was to the effect that 30,0.:0 men should be employed for the. sea service in the present year, including 9,000 men belonging to the Royal Marines. The CHAIRMAN having put the question ea the Reseletien o Mr. HUME was glad to bear the promises of eta. nomy which had been thrown out ; but he would much rather have heard of an immediate reduction, than had. promises of reductions:which were to take place. Tbe. .Committee were aware that the Finance Committee had come to the deliberate conclusion that reductions might be effected in almost every branch of the, public ser vice. The Members of the Finance Committee would now percejiethat it was not enough that they should take evidence as to the reducaions that might be effected. They should have reported on the subject, and not have left the matter entirely in the hands of Government. It had been said that the Duke of Wellington would clear away every thing; but nothing had been done. The estimates were reduced to the amount of 117.0001. but this reduction had not- been effected by any real saving. The quantity of timberhad been diminished, or, in °ther words, the usual stores had been withheld; but surely that could not be considered a saving. Then as to the &WOW., saved on the estimate for works, it only amounted to this, that the works bad been sus pended. Now, he objected to that system—the works ' ought aot to be suspehdedior they . ought to be given up. , If the works were uaeful they .thould be completed at i once, juiced ,of ?presiding the amount over a numbes of years, us. the , gneat disadvantage of the country. this way the breakwater at Paymouth was managed, which might have been finished in two years, instead of «thick o nestoiiihmen; was kept up for a number of i yeera r iffo gain appreciated the services of the navy more thets !topic., Hume) did, and he was always desirous to re use the army and to keep up the navy; so that be did, not suggest reductions in that - branch of the service in a Aggar t ly,spiOt,. He thought .the pi epent establishment, l hotegyers was unnecessasily .large. There were thirty thousand men for the sea service, and, from the evidence taken before the Finance Committee, he contended that a reduction of 10,000 men could be effected. In 1821 and 1822 that e were not more than 2 . 3,000 men employed is. the Navy. When an iticreise was proposed it was on the ground that our foreign relations were nut in a =tate which enabled us to reckon with any degree of certainty on the continuance of peace, and the increase of our . .. ' tUttii ne was stated to be only temporat e k if so large a fore. as thirty thousand men were kept the estimates .sid e d not be • materially reduced, but would remain at lisisat they now were. above 5,800,0001. He thought the number of men might be reduced without any disadvan lawn° the service.2.7oo men were employed in the coast blockade service alone, and it would. be weU for Par liament to consider whether it wis• right to keep laws in existence which .requited such a force to carry t'.em ' into effect. At all events, :he expense of persons em•' ployed in this, service. should be transferred to the Re venue, and not charged, to. he. Marine. Seven hundred and five men were alsoomployed in the packet service, which had been taken up by the Government only within a few years ; but it did 'not appear that the packets were safer or better. Indeed, he understold that a.grearer number of packets were lost within the last few years, since Government interfered, than had been during the entire war. The only use of those packets was to convey letters, and, if, they were necessary, the Port office should. be ,charged with the expense, for that was the only public establishment deriving any bene fit from them. There were 5,583 marines kept on shore. for what purpose he could not conceive;. for, nr ta ids - standing the existence of such a force on shore, the army was not reduced. The 5 000 marines kept on shore he conceived might be reduced; and thus, including the persons employed in the coast blockade service and those employed in the. packet service, no less than 9,000 men would be removed from the naval service, without in any degree crippling the navy. The naval force kept up at different stations was also, he contended, unneces sarily large. There were 2,000 men belonging to our navy stationed at Lisbon. As to that count's', our. Govern (Dent had been too long playing fist and loose with it, and it was absurd-to keep se large a naval force there, 'acting as a kind of police, for it was, in effect, nothing 'more. There were several other stations on which he considered that we had an unnecessarily large naval force, if the assurances contained in his Majests's Speech were to be relied upon, and that there was a reasonable prospect of the continuance of peace. There was so. reason, unless there was air apprehension of war. *hat the navy should not be reduced to the state to which it' was in 1822. As to the establishments for building ships, they entailed its enormous expense on the country. Since the peace micas a sum than tssenry-three millions had been expended in building 'and repairing sl i . s, and a great number of those bad got into decay. The whole tonnage of the navy might be calcula ed at about three hundred thousand tons, and ships cauld be built at thirty pounds a ton. The whole number of ships, as they stood a; Presents might be built for nine millions, and twice that sum had been laid out since the close of the war. He complained that, with mole ships than all the world beside, we were still going on increasing the amount d our navy, and keening, at a great ex-I peas e , fr o m repairs and' otherwise, a vast number of ships, no reasonable expectation of employing which 1 1 could, In' any well informed rrson, be entertained.— In the present state of the navy, and in the present l aspect of our foreiga relations, -a vast deal of this expense might. ;be postponed ; especially the opera-1 tions at Sheerness might be .postponed., The fact was, if the Committee took the trouble to look over the estimates and the returns, they would see that at the present moment we bad mote ships than, we could men, without any of those extraordinary ex= ertious to which he hoped recourse would never be had. To enter into some particulars—we had, rot the Yards' at home. an expendi.ure of 145,0001. abroad the cape's' was 52 ; 0001. Before 1792 the average expense set this department of the public service fluctuated between 22.0001. and 23,0001. Bearing that fast in mind, he could not but express strong surpriorthat the llon. Member should come down to the House with the Rsti-1 mates destitute of that reduction which the country had a right to expect. The Navy-office was especially one of those public departments which might be dispensed with.' It was like auotheroffice.of neatly the same descsiptiow —not a pay but a. check office. It would be a great saving, and very easily effected, were it altogether done away with. The head of that department, when exa mined before the Finance Committee last year, gave it as his opinion that the office intimation should be' du pealed with. That was an authority which Hon. Mem bers opposite- ought not to dispute; and yet they sou -- pled not to come to House withoufeffecting that di minution of the public buttbens. Before the French war the docks cost the country only 25,352/.. It was not 1.0 1 much, then, to expect that they might now be reduced, Toot so low as that. at least to one half their present came, When Mr. Barrow was examined before the Committee respecting the cost of snpetintendence, be stated that the best mode of arriving at a jest conclu sion would be by comparing the expense of a private yard with a public one.. Thus, in his Majesty's yard at Woolwich there were 248 shipwrights, 18 clerks, 16 measurers, the wholesystem of expenditure, on the same extended scale; while in a private yard, where there were 250 shipwrights, there weie only one foreman, one measurer, two clerks, and ten labourers, with every extra expense in the like proportion. Thus was seen the difference always found to subsist between the way in which individuals conducted their business, and that in which that of the state was carried on, though there was manifestly no sufficient reason for such a distinction be tween the concerns of the public and those of individuals. There was an expense for workmen of .5!:0,0001. for su perintendence of those men not less than an expense of ' 150,0001. Of she disproportion between the one and the other he would leave the Committee to judge. IC some places the expense of supetintendence was to the expense of the works as one to one and three-fourths; in others as one to one and four-fifths, and commonly running in those proportions. The Hon. Member then proceeded to observe upon the unsatisfactory way in which the estimatfs were made' up, with the eat t of details;. the putting of the charges in too many in stances in gross and aggregate sus s, instead of each particular being so specified as that it w u'd be easily set. He concluded by assuring the Committee that he made these observations without any hostile feeling towards 'the Government, nothing of anger or of ill will; but, with the knowledge wl sell he possessed, he could not resist the sense of duty hich impelled him to p o k ress these matters upon the ser' us consideration of the 'Committee, and to urge the lion. Gentlemen opposite to apply themselves to effect such a simplification of The accounts as might lead to an accurate and practical knowledge ea they really stood. Sir BYAM MARTIN observed that, though the gross amount was 5,878,0001. 620,0001. did not pro perly belong to the Navy, and there was a farther sum of 2,160,0001. to be taken off on accrunt of dead weight—a sum which had no more to do with 'the real expenses of the navy than it had to do with any other branch of the public service. The sum really applied did not exceed 3,708,0e01. for building and repairs, for victualli I. and hospitals. The greater number 01 clerks of which so muck complaint had been made was necessarily consequent upon the increase .of .duties to be performed. In 1792 the number of ships was slily seventy-eight; at present they amounted to ISO. The number of clerks in 1792 was ninety-tour. An Inereasiof only Vac's* in that number bed taken place. For his part he felt much at a loss to know where Mr. Bartow got the information on which he gro,mded his statements to the C msniittee. The norm le and Gallant Member then entered into the details uf a p r i. sate yard wi h which he was .ccriainted, for the pus.. pose of shot' iog that the expew.e! at stipet iritendence in the establishments of the Goveinnient did not so much exceed those of individeals as hod ',Len represented; that, in fact, in the c..se to which he more particularly applied himself, the superintendence in the private esti. blAment was 34, while that in the public was 26-4 difference not affording much ground for complaint -- Wsth respect to the amount of wages paid in 1792 and at present, H nourable Members should bear in mind that a wide difference existed between the price of pro. vi-ions then and now. Mr. MA BERLY said it was not very material to determine ::nether the amount of 8.800.0001. was for living and the 2000,0001. for dead weight, but whether the 3 8(X1,0001. was or was not properly expended T N .thing could be more clear and intelligib e than the evidence given on th.t subject before the Finance Committee, and tot!ting could be mote indisputable ,than the proposition that every practicable reduction should he made. - Ssips had been built that were no ' necessary, and the keeping • up of which was unne. ce.sirf. In making 'that observation, however, he was perfectly ready to give credit to his Atajesty'aliovernment for every sincere desire to effect all practicable reduc. iion, for he wa fully a A are of the difficulties insepara ble from retrenchment; but the pledges given ought to be redeemed, :and that befo:e next year. He thought it most unwise and imprudent, in the present situation of public affairs, to keep up a great naval force merely that we might be able, at some future time. to go to war. He was convinced that, had the Committee been sitting up toilie present time, and had made a report on the particular mattes, under consideration, and that the Iprinciples of that report were acted on, there would have been a considerable saving effected to the nation. Sir G. COCKBURN was happy to speak in the prew since of several Members of the late Finance Com. mittee, who could • bear him 4 set in the statement. that when in .his evidence he spoke of reducing the 30,000 men to 20,000 men, he supposed the country to be at peace without a chance of war, that there were no pirates on the seas, and that it was not necessity to send a large naval force to any quarter of the globe. In his opinion, it was not only. im perative on this country to endeavour to put the pirates down on account of the injury they were to all nations, but because the attempt was one of the means by which England ptocu:ed for himself a supe riority in the commetce of the world. It certainly had been expected, by the reductions which had taken place last year at Lisb3n, that the number would be reduced below 30,000; hut though they, had been withdrawn from Lisbon, it had been necessary to increase the number in the Mediterranean. And with respect to this increase he would observe, that though we were certainly in a state of peace at present, we were bound to be so prepared that we should not be taken by sur prise in the event of a war—(Hear, hear) He would ask the House whether it would be prudent to withdraw our ftrces from the Mediterranean, while both the Rus sians and the French had a fleet there?—(Hen). He believed that this countr y was likely to conttnue at peace with Russia, but it w as judged by Government, and wisely as he thought, 'hat it was prudent still to keep our lorces there; which, in leis opinion, was the sure way to preserve that pe ace which already existed—it served to make the nations cisil to its, and •make them respect us. But the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Horne) had complained that the ships bu It since the 1 each had rotted, and that the mcney srent upon tl em had coast. quently been wasted; but this he denied, ler he really believed that the ships which had' been built sin e the peace, were better now than they were when launched; and the reason was, that those which were built in the time of peace were built slowly, carefully, and under cover, while those built in war were huriird on t n meet the exigency. With respect to the establishments that • were kept up, he was flee in cenfess that, in his opinion, there was a larger soperintendence in the Dockyards and in London than was altogether necessary. The G vet nment, he was happy to state, had been looking into those matters, and though it could not m.ke all those reductions that might be n ade in a moment, yet it certainly was its• intention to examine every thing. and to make every possible reduction; and he hoped, ' when he next had the hon ur to address the House on this subject, that he should be able to state something satisfactory to them on this held. With respect to the Marines, he could assure the Committee, that they had • their time fully occupied on shore in doing garrison duty ; and it was therefore clear that they relieved the army to that extent t in having them on shore ready, there was this advantage—that, in the event t f a war, those additional Marines—to the number of about 5000, could instantly man the frigates, and would at once be `efficient for that purpose ; while. it fresh men were em ployed, they °alai be useless for the first month, owing to sea sickness. As to the Dock yards, it was the in tention of Government that Chatham and Woolwich should be used as building-yards, while Sheerness was employed as the fitting.yard. flir H. PARNELL compared the state of our naval Meet with that of foreign nations in 1793. and its state compared with that of all the world at present, and contended that we did not need so large a force now as we did then. Sir C. COLE was of opinion that it would be much better fie- Government to supply its own stores, as be believed that all war contracts turned out in the end to be inordinately expensive. • Mr. Alderman WAITH AI A N complained that the Finance Committee bad been broken up without making a Report on the Navy. Mr. HUME thought that a great deal of the expense of the Victualling Office might be got rid of by permitting the stores to be supplied by contract. Lord A LTIIORP said that the Navy Board might be divided into three departmenti--the manufacturing department, which would embrace the building, Sic. the commercial, which would include the baying of stores and provisions; and the financial des peruneor, in which the accounts might be kept. These depart meats ought to be kept distinct, and there ought to be no mixture of responsibility. If this division were made, and strictly adhered l ane die Navy Board would be looked upon as the pattern instead of Ordnance. Mr. A. BARING should be sorry to see any diminution of ear oral force that was not absolutely esseotial. The tercet proper Mbs kept by the country, both by land and sea, must depend epos fermsiss; that a country which keeps up establishments beyond . Ur MOM. instead of strengthening itself, was entailing weakness Iwo MIL When the Finance Committee recommended a redraw • gin of our naval force we had a deficient revenue - but be hoped, with our present improved finances. that be shi;old be able to Maintain the force now proposed—(Hear). A respectable • force we* not ,only consistent with our honour and dignity, but was the serest means of maintainiag peace. The Committee of Finance appointed last year was useful in furnishing hints for retrenchment, which be bad hopes the Government would adopt worn the candid end fair manner in which the information was gives that led to . this suggestion. The dead weight, however, it was. in this branch of the seniors, weU as in all the others, that was the great evil en be overcome. It was flee or as mill ohs skogether—a most ensue mots sum, compared with what it was in former times. It this were taken away our establishments would best to be compared with those of any other country in Europe for their Mr., Baring coodaded los expnusing his rdiaise that Me doss of reduction whlcbhad been thrown me by Ministers world be carried into effect, and that some provides would be ask against such events as the losses which had bees barred. ire a great amount, In she present year, by the maim' sway nit pass* in the Cc ' were con put the c inconver bands of power st Arzercise btentior . Sir G. learn tl "at pies-1 had no i House Metnbei practise) t ~. ._.. t