Star. — London, England, 1820-06-27 00:00:00

brought to swear' *fore their Lordships, what they had dared to assert abroad, then six weeks was the least possible time within which they could be ena bled to commence their proceedings. Let it not then be said, that zhis was the plea of one who felt herself in guilt. No I it was dictated by a consci ousness of - innocence, and the more vile those calum nies were—the more scandalous those accusations were—the more necessary it was that the delay be was asking should be granted. Her Majesty's sole object was to gain time to bring over those witnesses, and those documents, which she knew would con found her accusers, and put to the blush whoever dare come forward to slander her reputation. He would ask their Lordships to consider the circum stances of peculiar hardship in which her Majesty was placed. He need only to put the case of a woman living in England and labouring under such impu tations, to shew how much more painful and diffi cult was the situation of her Majesty. Here the wit nesses would be English, and none would be received without the greatest caution, whose principles hung loosely about them. No one who thought lightly of the obligation of an oath, or held any of the dan gerous notions by which that sacred obligation could be violated without a crime in certain cases, and for certain purposes, would be allowed to affect the in terests of tile accused in a British Court of Justice. Here then was an advantage which her Majesty was denied. In the next place, in the case he had sug gested, the woman would have another safeguard, in the witnesses against her being her countrymen, subject to the salutary controul of public opinion, enforced by the moral sense of a well educated people, and still more powerfully put in operation by-a free Press. Let their Lordships reflect, that in the next place, she would have the advantage of a compulsory process, to compel the attendance of witnesses, and neither threats, nor bribes, nor pro mises, could keep them out of Court, for they must come forward ; but, in the case of his Illustrious Client, the witnesses were foreigners, some of them said to be degraded and infamous in their character, and if so, high as was the integrity of their Lord ships, fearless and bold as they might be of all at tacks, and he made this observation with the great Captain of the age before him, yet which of them would not shrink back from such witnesses, were they produced against his wife or daughter, though entertaining the fullest conviction of her innocence? He begged their Lordships to reflect, that the wit nesses in this case, or at least some of them, came from Courts which had yielded to the influence of those prejudices which existed in some quarters its this country, and treated her Majesty ungraciously. She had also the disadvantage to have those wit nesses examined in a place far distant from the eyes of their neighbours, whose presence might be sonic controul upon the license of their accusations ; and the chance was a million times less that they would speak the truth here, if they were not scrupulous at home. What then must be the strength of that'con scious innocence, to demand that they should pro ceed with the investigation, under all these adverse circumstances? yet such was the conduct of her Ma jesty, such was the proof she had given of the good ness of her cause, and such was her confidence of an honourable acquittal. But it was his duty to guard her against the risk which the most perfect innocence incurred by precipitancy. Until be knew more of the witnesses that were to be produced, and . some of them ho did know, how was it possible to cross-examine a single one of them, without know ing their neighbourhood, their character, and the various circumstances which may affect their credi bility, and determine the value of their evidence?— He would put the case, as was the fact, that one of tl-e;e witnesses was a servawt, who had been turned off for stealing 400 Napoleons from a drawer be longing to her Majesty. Now he could bring a Bri tish Naval Officer of distinguished character, for he had bled in his country's cause, to confront this de graded individual ; but even he was now at Rouen. Would their Lordships then drive him into his cause, when he told them that, without the necessary delay, he was unable to sift the character or the evidence of a single witness ? If he were asking for a delay which would be an absolute loss of time, he should at once give ep his appeal to their Lordships, be cause his Royal Clieut was anxious to proceed with • all possible rapidity ; but let the witnesses be col lected, and all the evidence on the spot. Then, when they did begin, they would be mile to proceed with order and dispatch, so as to brinfahe whole business to a conclusion at a period quite as early as if they went forward from the present moment. After the character of her Majesty had been blackened all over Europe, he would assume that no Court 9f Justice would proceed to judgment, whether it was estab lished in England or at Milan, without affordipg the delay which was necessary to collect the evidence. He was bound to believe that their Lordships would grant the time required ; it was impossible they could refuse it; they must allow the delay, because in the character of British Judges, they could do no other wise. If they proceeded then, they would he making up their minds to give judgment before trial, and delay must come afterwards, when all its uses were lost to the justice of the case. He was only asking for that which would be granted in a common indictment against the meanest individual. Before heconcluded, he took the liberty of observing to their Lordships, that one branch of the Legislature had pronounced that which their Lordships were about to do in this case, " disappointing to the hopes of Parliament, de rogatory from the dignity of the Crown, and inju rious to the best interests of the Empire." He asked them for the necessary indispensable delay in the pro ceeding which the House of Commons had so de scribal; ixl• order that a legal murder might not be committed on the first subject in the realm. MT.DEXMAN thee proceeded to address their Lord ships. He observed, that after the very able speech which they had heard from his Learned Friend, he should, perhaps, best consult the interests of their Illustrious Client by abstaining from troubling their Lordships on the subject. However, he felt it ne cessary to make one observation, as it had fallen to him to bring down the Petition which had that day been received from her Majesty. He 'gad thought it not at variance with the forms of that House for she Noble and Learned Lord to be the medium of in tr adocing the Petition; and as he was not aware that he was likely to refuse from any Rersonal mo tives, he had applied to him in the first instance, not . . nte;ding, that in a proceeding of this Cacao?. could arise -anywhere. However, the Pe• , tltion had been received; but he might observe, that , as an the subject of the realm had a right to have their 'Petitions presented to that House, it was not for him to search out difficulties, but for those who felt them to explain their nature to their Lordships. These things were passed, and their Lordships had now to turn their attention to the more serious part , of the business; and here the principal difficylty be laid to contend with, was the anomaly of those pro ceedings which ..bed now commenced. He might say he was emending with shadows and clouds, for he could not see 'where the next step would lead them, or what would be their mode of proceeding. He might venture to say, that however high the au thority to which those proceedings owed their com mencement, he was not able to pronounce that they would not yet take the form of an impeachment; that might, for all he at present knew, be the mode eventually pursued. Or if a less aw ful; form was given to the investigation, it might lirearried On to a Bill of pains and penalties, sending the offender to exile, to suffering, and to death. If, then, their Lordships should• proceed by other means than thosi already adopted, how could it be that fifteen of their number, who would have been prejudiced by the contents' of that portentous bag, should sit in judg ment upon her Majesty's life? How was it possible that the most honourable mind could divest itself of all influence involuntarily acquired from evidence of the most malignant description? for such he was led to believe was the character of the evidence in the bag. Malignity had volunteered its testimony when supposed to be acceptable in a certain quarter; and how probable was it, when there was such a demand, or supposed demand, for evidence, that it would be supplied promptly, especially from the quarter where this unfortunate individual had resided. How pro bable was it that some person, influenced by an in terested malignity— " Some eternal villain; " Some busy and insinuating rogue; " Some togging, cozening slave, to get some office," might come forward to assert and to substantiate charges of the blackest description. He might pro ceed to shew to their Lordships, that no delay would be suffered in their proceedings, by allowing the time for which his Learned Friend had applied, be cause, in all cases before the tribunals of this country, all the witnesses must be present, in order that their evidence might be sifted by cross-examination. It was possible that suborned witnesses might be pro duced on both sides, but there was no danger or difh• culty of that kind in the course which they had en treated their Lordships to adopt. When he looked around him and saw the number of distinguished individuals before whom he had to appear, and re collected into what feeble hands, as far as be was concerned, her Majesty's-case . was entrusted, he felt himself called•upon to make an appeal in behalf of hi. Illustrious Client, in the language of Lord Bacon, who said, that •" A Judge ought to prepare his way to a decision, by raising the valleys, and taking down the hills, so that when on the one hand there was great power, wealth, and exalted station, it was his duty to remove them, in order that he might plant his judgment on a level foundation." Mr. WILLIAMS then began to observe that he had but half an hour's notice to prepare himself for the duty he was then about to perform—when The LORD CHANCELLOR rose and stated, it was the practice of the House to hear but two Learned Counsel upon the same side at their bar. A motion was consequently made that the Coun sel be ordered to withdraw, which was immediately agreed to, and the Learned Gentlemen withdrew. Lord LIVERPOOL suggested the propriety of taking time to consider of the arguments of the Learned Counsel before they proceeded to determine upon their application; and moved, " That the fur ther consideration of the Petition be adjourned to Wednesday," which was agreed to. Lord GREY said, it was not his intention to bring on the motion of which he had given notice, that evening, but he certainly should submit it to their Lordships' consideration to-morrow, when he should state the reasons which he conceived might induce their Lordships to alter their whole proceedings in this business. He accordingly moved, " That their Lordships be summoned for to-morrow."—Agreed to. The order for the meeting of the Secret Commit tee was then rescinded, and the meeting appointed for Wednesday.—Adjourned at Eight o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS. The debate expected to come on this day, excited the same degree of interest, which has been witnessed on former days, when the question respecting the Quern stood for dicussion.— All the seats in the House were taken at an early hour; and at about half-past three o'clock the House was more than half filled. About 20 minutes before four the SPICAIM took the Chair. .The Anti-blephitic Company's All was read a second time, and ordered to be committed. The Drury-Lane Theatre Bill was read a third time and passed. Sir H. PARNELL brought up the Report of the Dunkary Harbour Bill; the Bill was ordered to be re-committed. On the motion of Mr. 'rsaiiir son, the Report of the Land lords and Tenants Bill was put off to Friday next. On the motion of Mr. Lusnixcron. the Twelve Millions Loan Bill was lead a third time and passed. Mr. LUSHINGTON brought up the Report of the Lottery Bill.—To be read a third time to-morrow. lie also brought up the Report of the Exchequer Bills' Bill.— To be read a third time to-morrow. The Greenland Fishery Bill was reported.—To be read a third time to-morrow. Mr. BIRCH moved that there be laid before the House an Account of the quantity of French Silk Lace imported into Great Britain, during the last three years, distinguishing what was worked and embroidered, from that. which was plain.— Ordered. The House resolved itself into a Committee on the Isle of Man Trade Act. Mr. LUSHINGTON said, it would be necessary to abolish the Fees on Coals imported into the Isle of Man ; and be moved is Resolution to that effect. Mr. CURWBN wished to know whether the object of this proposition was not to swell the large Grant, given some years ago to the Duke of Athel ? Mr. LUSHINGTON replied, that the Grant to the Duke of Athol had already been settled; and ibis measure had no thing to do with it. Several other Resolutions for the imposition of New Duties were moved. They were all agreed to, and the Report ordered to be received to-morrow. °The House, in a Committee, agreed to a Resolution for con timing the Welch Coal Act; and a Bill was ordered. The House went into a Committee on the New South Wales Duties' nu. The Report tolse received on Wednesday next. The St. John's (Newfoundland) Bill was postponed to Wed nesday next. The House went into Committee on the Dublin Mimic of Industry BUL—To be reported to-morrow. The House ' in a Committee of Ways and Means, voted, on the motion of the Cz. v rauna of the lbauroosa, a Resolution for raking the sum of X 4.500,000, by Treasury Binh for the 'service et TreissiWarine the tiniest 7eslL—the &poet to IV ranked tosustrow. On the modon of Mr. Rosnumos, the House went Into i exan mittee an the Barbadoes Free Port Bill.—To be read I third dine to4nurrow. On the motion of Dr. Pantaixosa, the Marriage Act Amend ment Bill was postponed to Wednesday next. CRIMINAL LAWS. Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH said, that of the six Bills witkit cou tob n e try ma h :t d h e h it an i r con d for seg to mrec uen wM c c e h ti g m a the e oe un pCpo pon ri:inimiti ant onwi s ia b s which the House was about to be occupied, he would not press w ject so wt f inten d edt ' h th e those three Bills et present—a more convenient opportunity would arise hereafter for discusshig them; but if, in the present agitation of the public mind, he should bring them forward, the I object he had in view would be materially injured. With . re spect to the other three Bills, he understood that no oppo sit ion was intended to be made to them ; and therefore they might take their course through the House. He then moved the se-' I Bond reading of the following Bills :—The Bill to repealthe Act for making it capital to steal privately in Shops; the Bill for commuting the punishment of Capital Felonies; and the Capital Felonies Repeal IN.—These Bills were read a second time, and ordered to be committed oa Friday. ttill KING'S MEWS. Mr. M. A. TAYLOR wished to make an inquiry, with a view to the acconunodation•of the Public, relative to the shut ting up of the King's Mews, at Charing Cross ? His object was to learn whether it was to be understood that that passage was permanently closed, and that another would be opened as a sub stitute. Although it had not been a thoroughfare for carriages, its being shut up would be a source of great inconvenience to many persons. •Mr. LUSHINOTON said he was sorry that from the knowledge he possessed, he was not able to give an answer to his Honourable Friend. He suggested, however, that the tho roughfare had existed from indulgence only. Mr. M. A. TAYLOR said, he never assumed that it was a right; he merely stated, that the loss of it was an inconvenience. THE QUEEN. Lord CASTLEREAGH rose in order to address the House on the subject of the adjourned debate on the King's Message, which stood on the Orders of the Day for consideration that night. He must at the' outset state, that in consideration of the situation in which the House then stood, after the efforts to at - fain conciliation—after the efforts which lead been made, and which, however little hopes they might have entertained as to its termination, the Govern ment had entered into with the utmost cordiality ; it must now be considered that every exertion of Go vernment and of Psuliament was exhausted, and that . they could only look at this painful subject as one which must, for the ends of justice, be carried on with as little delay as possible. He begged to recal the recollection of the House to- the moment when Go vernment declared what would be their duty, in the event of the Queeb's returning to this country` ; at which time they had framed a proceeding in the course which they conceived would be most conso nant with Parliamentary principle and justice. if at' that time Government had adopted the course •sug gested by the other side of the House, no responsibi lity of any kind would attach to them ; but Govern ment were always ready to take a full share of re sponsibility on themselves where the case required it; and ii they rejected the advice tendered them on that occasion, it was because the course recommended was not founded on the soundest principles of Parlia mentary practice. For, although Government would not have shrunk from instituting any proceeding on the foundation of the charges brought against her Majesty, supported by such evidence as they had, yet they did feel that Parliament would not be satis fied to adopt a measure of so grave a nature, and against such an Illustrious Personage, without being fully satisfied in their own minds that there was prima facie evidence in support of the charge—(Hear). These, he contended, were the most justifiable grounds on which Government had acted in framing the ori ginal course proposed to be pursued. But the case bad since then undergone en important alteration.-- On the first night of the consideration of the subject, Parliament had consented to an adjournment avow edly for the object of making an effort to avert the necessity of hostile measures. It was perfectly true, that, in the earliest stages of the business, her Ma jesty had been advised to protest against any secret inquiry, and accordingly she did, in her first com munication to the House, desire that no preliminary investigation might be allowed to take place. In a later communication her Majesty had renewed that appeal, in more peremptory and solemn terms ; she had renewed it in the terms of an injured Queen : and therefore, in offering to substitute a proceeding of a more direct character, he did not anticipate any opposition on the part of her Majesty's supporters.— The House would recollect, that on the.first night of the discussion on this question, the adjournment was not proposed in order to see what shape the proceed ing to be adopted should take, but for the purpose of entering into a negociation, in the hopes of averting altogether the necessity of taking any steps on the papers then before them. Without attempting to cast obloquy on any party, he must say, that he did feel that there were celtain strong grounds for adopt ing the course then • taken. Her Majesty had inti mated her readiness to yield her judgment up to the guidance of Parliament. From the commencement of the negociation, too, it had been understood that the moment her Majesty was restored to her dignity as Queen, she should consider any other arrangement as of secondary consequence; and in effect, that sine qua non having been granted, two intermediate per sons had been appointed, to whom were entrusted all other matters of interest, patronage, or income. After such indications, he should have thought that her Majesty would have yielded to the anxious wishes of Parliament. Yet,in a most authoritative tone, she had repelled them, a thing never before been done by any part of the same Illustrious Family which now filled the Throne of this country—(Hear, hear, hear). Our history might be searched without finding a case wherein this, or any other family, had ever been found thus to treat the request, so tendered, of that House—(Hear, hear).--He did not state this in a tone of reproach, but the House could not but feel cha grined to have their counsel rejected when they ad dressed the Crown on a question deeply involving the interests of the country, and of a nature so serious and sacred. On such an occasion would the House not have desired to know who was the Minister who had dared to advise the Crown against the recommenda tions, and in the very face of the House ?—(Hear, hear). But it was one of the many excellencies of the Constitution under which we lived, that what no Mi nister wound dare to advise, an mig ht with al • ht u with impunity venture to adopt. That Illustrious' Individual might repent the step which had been taken. It certainly. was a most serous appeal as ever - was made to any Meniber of the House of Bruns wick ; and after that, he appthended all that re mained for them to do was, to see what course of ptoceeding war best calculated to put the matter in a train of judicial investigation, now that they had done all they could to avoid that alternative—(Hear, hear). With reference to that part of her M apprehensions of exciting the resentment of the House, because her Majesty had denied herself to an application which no Brunswick before had ever done, he trusted the course they_ should deride upon adopting would be such as would convince that Illustrious Personage that their object was nothing but to pursue the ends of justice—(Hear, hear, hear). If, therefore, the House would permit of the matter's originating witlf himself, he was prepared to say that he had in view to bring forward a motion on a future day, whirlf would be founded or. the Queen's Answer to the late Address of that House. He was sure the Horeb would not wish him to go into. a detail of the nature of the motion, but he would state that it would have this distinct character, it would put her Majesty, the House, and the Country, in possession of the wHele of the evidence contained in the Papers on the table relative to this matter.-(Hear, hear, hear). — If the House should please, after hearing his motion, to go on to institute any proceedings in the case, without entering into a preliminary inquiry, it would have also that characteristic so vehemently demanded, viz.—it would be open in itself—( Hear, hear).—lf, afterwards, a prima fade case should be made our, and it should be thought proper to follow it up by evidence, that of course would be brought forward. —He must so far revert to what had passed on this subject, as to state that the matter was at present involved in considerable awkwardness. Nothing could be more embarrassing than a judicial inquiry ( Hear, from Me Oppcmition).—He would not no w look at the prima foie cause ; but he contended, a: d he had the authority of Blackstone for saying so, that nothing was more difficult in itself, and nothing was more absurd, than to require that two judicial inquii ies on the same subject should be carried on at the same time in the two Houses of Parliament. If both the Committees should, as he could not for moment doubt they would, decide that there wen: sufficient grounds for instituting and arranging some judicial proceedings, he entreated the House to con sider of the difficulty that would exist as to where the proceedings should originate. Now, he hoped the House would not think that he undervalued the capabilities of that House in cases of judicial proceedings; but it appeared to him, that if they had determined that there was cause for judicial pro ceedings, then they would have waited to see what was the nature of the proceedioas adopted by the other House ; and if that proceeding were within the reach of their judicial functions, they would in all probability follow it up. That was the view which Government had been induced to direct their proceedings upon, viz. that if the House of Lords took the matter up judicially, that House would ne cessarily wait. He wished it, therefore, to be under stood, that it was necessary to name some day for his motion, sufficiently diitant ti give to -the other House, before that day should arrive, the possibility of having framed some proceeding on this very im• portant and grave accusation ; and which, at the same time, should not be too late for the purposes of justice. —ln consequence of this impression, he should name Thursday se'nnight as the day on which he would be prepared to offer , a motion to the House, founded en the answer of her Majesty so the Addrest of that Howe. He had no hesitatioit in sayitig ' that he should desist from making that Motion, it House of Lords should have, in its judicial character, insti tuted anything which must, in due course, come down to that House. But after waiting that reason able length of time, he did not feel that, after all that had passed, after the fact had been so broadly avowed, that the papers on the table contained matters of charge so grave against her Majesty, even if the House of Lords did not institute any proceedings, he considered that he owed it to her Majesty, and he trusted the House would allow him to put the charges in such a shape that her Majesty may be able to defend her own character—(Hear, hear). — He had nothing further to state, but that he was ready to charge himself with the whole responsibility of originating this measure. He allowed that the House ought to feel a degree of• jealousy in leaving it in the power of 'any Minister of the Crown to bring against her Majesty such grave charges, en tirely of himself; but the House would see that it was relieved from any feelings of that kind by the appeal of the Queen to adopt the very course he was proposing to them. After that appeal, he conceived himself called upon, as a Member of Parliament, to take the steps he was proposing. With the substance Message, inquire e i respect to the consideration of the King's e o n f er w w h as ich th wa e i s ) , est th i a o t r they sh ng ou i l n d to m n w vest ha i t g m at a io n n of the papers .on the table, he should propose to . bring forward his motion on Thursday se nhight, meaning to debate the. King's Message on Friday se'nnight, the following day. The effect of this arrangetnenrwouli be, that if the House of Lords took the matter up, he should not bring forward hii motion; but if, Failing in the House of Lords, he brought his motion forward, and they should accept it, then the debate of the next day would fa)l to the ground. If again, as he confessed he did cot foresee was likely, the House should negative his motion, then it would leave the matter in the precise state it then was. He had heard it insinuated abroad, that, from the meatier in which Parliament had ap- proached her Majesty, the business must be ipso fbcto dropped altogether—(Hear, hear, hear).—The construction which a Right Hon. Gentleman had been.pleased to place upon the vote of the House the other night, viz.—that any inquiry must be e dero gatory to the dignity of the Crown, and obnoxious to the best interests of the Country," had helped to give rise to this notion ; but he did think that nothing couldhe farther from the notion of the Honourable Mover:of that Address, as to its ultimate effect, than this :he could. not conceive - how it was possible to torture any of his Honourable Friend's words to bear such .a meaning. For his Honourable Friend had expressly.stated, that the adoption of his motion was the last alternative between inquiry and reconciliation. He never did mean to propound such a proposition as that imputed to him. He sincerely trusted, how fever, that they should bear no more of these quib bling argu.ments- : -(Hear ! from the Opposition).—He trusted, after having dune all that could be done to inqu for I •lion the i VOUS Crol And him of tt that term steal mod it to the p shou ever had Strosi tver over thou his s pate to sh on tl Maj 4 that suer jesty knov I 4:*