Star. — London, England, 1813-02-19 00:00:00

r ..Y -.- - , of cite ttnton "mid 'mi l? be found, intlige",t the ttitrkgektatthe WEts It in tie 'Wen]. beret! in the Win tetlnd Stites oit-the Nuts. kippi ? No it web In the: Eastern States, *here real American Seamen were to be founds Yet it was in these very parts that the war was Most unpopular ; there it was most cried down, and on this par. , tieblar point: There the people were most against Mrs Madison, and in those districts it appeared not a single Vote had - been given for this Presi dent, who had done them the favour to engage' in a war fbr that in which they were so much int.- tested. He proceeded to contrast the temper of the Governments of England and America. He thought there would be no charge against the English Go vernment for want of forbearance, he was rather led to expect one of an opposite nature. This • was not the time to go into this subject, but hereafter he should have, what was in his own mind, a perfectly satisfactory case to submit to the House. The con duct of Ministers had been marked by a perfect spirit of Moderation, yet they had not relied on the hopes instead of their means, nor failed to prepare for that war in which the negotiations appeared likely to ter- Minate ; as early as the month of May they had sent out instructions to the Officers in America how to act, and strengthened the Army and Navy on this point. Their object, however,, had been principally defence. Canada, which it was thought the first burst of war would subjugate, had been successfully defended; and none of our fleets had fallen into the hands of the AMericans, notwithstanding they had the advantage of choosing the moment of war. He then defended the Government in not sooner placing the American ports in a state of blockade.- -There was no part of their conduct of which he repented, or cf which he was ashamed ; they were anxious to conciliate, but a finger could not be laid on that spot where the rights and interests of the country had been surrendered. He lamented the degradation of the American character--he lament. ed it, for every nation was interested in it ; and he thought the 'letting down of her character no gain to Great Britain, but much evil. Instead of assisting those who were struggling •against the•tyranny of France, she had thrown her weight into the opposite scale, and that at the moment when she was on the eve of receiving the Duke of Bassano's declara tion of the Cede of France, which was hostile to the rights of every country. Then it was that America seemed impatient to get into a war ra ther than settle the differences between her and England. After waiting so long, it might have I been expected that she would have waited to learn the result of the proceeding s of that House on the Orders in Council, which had then commenced.— She made her declaration at the moment the French Ruler declared that he would invade and subjugate' every country which refused to receive his commer cial system. It was at that moment when Bonaparte I went to put himself at the head of his last army, with which he sanguinely hoped to subdue the world to his terms. This degenerate mistaken idea was taken up by America, and at that moment she thought it I consistent with her character and her interest to be-' come the associate of France—(Hear, hear.) After a few further observations on the disgraceful conduct of America towards this country and towards Eu- 1 rope, the Noble Lord rep e at e d, th at t h e b est interests .; of this country had been consulted by Ministers in what they had done ; and again expressed satisfac tion at having the reflection, that if war could not be avoided, justice was on our side ; and the war, he trusted, would not be thought to have originated in the misconduct of Ministers. He then moved— " That an humble Address be presented to his Royal High ness the Prince Regent, acquainting him that we have taken into our serious consideration the papers which were laid before as by his Royal Highness's command, relative to the late dis cussions with the Government of the United States. " That, while we deeply lament the failure of the endeavours of his Royal Highness to preserve the relations of peace and amity between this country and America, we highly approve of the resistance orposed to the unjustifiable pretensions of the Government of the United States ; being satisfied that those pre tensions were not admissible without surrendering some o' the moat ancient, important and undoubted rights of the British Empire. "'That Impressed with these sentiments, and Fully convinced of the justice of his Royal Highness's cause, his Royal Highness ally rely on our zealous and cordial support, and our affording every means necessary for prosecuting the war with vigour, and far bringing it to a fare and honourable termination." Mr. PONSONBY said, that he was induced to rise thus early in the debate, in consequence of some of the observations of the Noble Lord who had just sat down, and who, though he had not quoted any expression of his in terms, had inferrer', from the ge neral tenor of his observations, that l,r stood in the rituat on cf being bound to support the Government in the prosecution of the war with America. The Bruise could not fail to remember the sentiments he bad expressed upon the Orders in Council : from the commencement to the conclusion of the system upon which they were founded, he had alw:lys foretold that they would he productive of hos:ilties between Anietica and Great Britain; and when the Noble Lord, in compliance with the sense of the House and the wishes of the country, had advised the revocation of these Orders, he (Mr. P.) had said, that however adverse he was the system, and however pleased at the revocation, .he feared that it had come too tar dily to be productive of any good effect. But he had also said, that if the repeal of the Orders in Council did not prevent hostilities, and that America should rnanitest any unreasonable disposition towards this eotuiti y, that he would be found as ready and as for ward to resist any unwarrantable aggression, as the tiosi strenuous supporter of those Orders. The Noble Lord had travelled further into the subject •of the Orders in Council than he wished to follow him—they had been revoked, and they had not produced Peace; the two countries were in a state of war, and they were then engaged in the discussion of a subject un connected with, and distinct from, the Orders in Council. The Noble Lord had said, that, under these circumstances, his Majesty's Ministers were fairly entitled to the approbation of the House; but that, whether or not their conduct met that approoa tto, the House wa4 r bound to support the Crown in the prosecution of the war. Without giving his full lit to the Propositions of the Noble Lord, and uottgh be should animadvert on some of the topics i.urged in his speech and in the Address with which me had concluded, he was free to say, that he felt no 4114 Politiuu to vote against hint upon the present occa- - ' llX._ sion•—titeadlem . Atilitetial 44.1 n the itse place, the war was net olte bf our bft blakidg-this Ituntry .hod nor declared *at, the American,Gos Veralheht . ;Neff declared this war; atrd they Must have made . ottt a very strong case in their favour, to Ittstify .Parliament in eltpressing siisappMbation of Ministers. Having made these general observations, he nes t proceeded - to remark on the Propositions of Mr. Russell, the American Charge d'Affaires, both of which he considered-Ministers as justified in rejects ing, The proposal of a secret understanding as to the suspension of impressment; he regarded as pecu liarly offensive and objectionable.—The third offer • ' came from Mr. Monroe to Sir J. Warren; and, if he. understood the letter of the American Secretary, it said, that there was no remaining difference be tween the two countries except on the point of im pressment and proposed, that giving up the idea of armistice or secret understanding, the two Govern ments should discuss this point event flagrarrie kilo. —He entertained a doubt as to the propriety of re jecting this offer. We might have seen what plan the American Legislature offered, to prevent the en ! trance of our seamen on board their ships; but it did not follow, that we were bound to accept it. Indeed, America must be told that this country will never abandon one jot of her right of search for con traband of war, and of claiming her seamen wherever they are found. • if she imagines that she has a right to shake off the allegiance of a British subject, by passing him through certain forms of citizenship, she must be told, that this is a pretension unjust, de grading, and that can never be submitted to.—(Cries of Hear, hear.) The Nobfe Lord had touched upon another topic, and that was the mode in which the war had been conducted by Ministers. Now from all he (Mr. P.) had read, and all he had heard, he was convinced that the conduct of the war had cceitri buted much more to its continuance than its tenni . nation—(Hear, hear.) Was it not evident that the naval triumphs of the Americans must have contri buted to strengthen the war party in America ; and would the Noble Lord say, that the navy of England • was not competent to sweep from the ocean the tri fling force which the Americans possessed ? Upon the whole, his duty compelled him to vote for the Address, because were it negatived, the war party in America would thence derive an encouragement that might be productive of much mischief. So far as his influence extended, he should ever support the great maritime rights on which the security of the empire mainly depended. I Mr. A. BARING declined going into any exami nation of the Orders in Councl, ou which the Noble Lord had thought proper to pronounce a panegyric; but he was inclined to doubt the assertion th a t Ame rica had been influenced by any appearance at Euro pean politics to go to war—on the contrary, any wan who read the papers laid before the House could see that the Orders in Council were the real cause of war, ; and their repeal, he was sure, would have put an end to it, it the uniform declarations of Ministers had not been averse to concession on this head. Another ground of offence had been the declaration of the Bri tish Government, that they would not consider the repeal of the French Decree quoad America as a suf. ficiera ground cf repealing the Orders in Council ; and be appealed to the Honou r able Gentleman op posite (Mr. Fosti.: ) whether the Minister's repeal ut the Orders in Council would not have produced a prevention of the war ? [The Honourable Gentle man next adverted to the question of impressment, and argued against the abrupt termination of negoci , ation, when offers were made by Mr. Russell and Mr. Monroe.] He did not mean to recommend con cession, but there should have been 3 spirit of,conci liation, and e'en if there were no more than 1600 American seamen in the British service, America had a right to demand redress, as Great Britain would have done under similar circumstan,:es. Tire Hon. Gentleman took a view of the conduct of the war, and censured Ministers for not blockading the American ports which afforded such facilities for the purpose. He concluded, by contrasting the mi litary operations by land, and paying a high compli ment to the skid, prudence, and gallantry with Vt 111C11 they were conducted. Mr. FORSTER said, he was not able to say ex• actly what might have been the effect on the mind of Congress, had the account of the repeal of our Orders in Council reached America previous to the Declara tion of War ; but he believed that Government had not had a sufficient influence to prevent Congress coming to the decision it had done in favour of war with this country. The Honourable Gentleman then adverted to the different Treaties which had taken place between America and this Count: y ; and ob served, that it had always been the policy of the American Government to keep differences open, that they might have opportunities of occas:onally irrita ting the people of America against this country ; and in proof of the truth of his opinion, he adduced the instance of the Chesapeake, which had been kept alive by the most artlul means, and been made the subject of dispute from year to year ; and from all that had taken place on the subject of blockade, &c. it was iery apparent that there was a strong party in America who were inimical to the interests of this ' country. This feeling had arisen since the death of Washington, and since the influence which his name ; carried with it h a d ,: ec li ne d. Th ere were i n Arne . ! rica many great men, whose talents would do honour to this or any other country ; but there were many to whom it would do us no honour to claim affinity —many emigrants from Europe, and particularly from the Sister Kingdom, who were the bitterest ene : mies of this country ; and to his knowledge there were six Irishmen who had seats in the Congress, • which decided for war with this country. It was in the New England States alone, that an Englishman could travel with feelings of satisfaction, and be in .clined to view their inhabitants as friends and rela tions. In this part of the United States comparatively little clamour had prevailed against our Orders in Council, awl no inclination to proceed to extremities had been manifested ; yet, in the provinces north of the Hudson, the snipping amounted to 1,424 4 000' tons, whilst in those States, where the Orders were the constant object of complaint, the total amount of shipping did nut exceed 200,000 tons. He considered the introduction of the question of impressment at a moment when all the other differences were in a train of settlement, as an evidence of the hostile spirit by which the party he had described were animated. It was a question which had been before Aiwa) s reserved for separate negociation, and ought to have been kept distinct,' is a (attire subject bf amicable atitisi. merit. He had hitself fully anticipated a suspenthoti of eery hostile fedi% after conceding the Orders in Council. But it that impossible accurately to ascer tain the ketitirnent of the predominant party. They had no acknowledged head in whose opihions a stan dard might be found of the probable wishes and pro fessed principles of the whole body. Few rational men could have imagined, when they saw above 100 millions of dollars employed in a commerce which depended on peace for its duration ; when they sate 600 vessels at one period leaving the ports of America to viait any quarter of the Flobe ; when all this wealth and trade were to be sacrificed by a war ; when their whole military and naval force consisted of 1000 troops, when they had a coast of 1500 miles exposed, and of four frigates, to an enterprising naval power, that any Government which was not iuled by a party, instead of guiding and cuntroling it, could plunge into a measure so fraught with danger and calamity. Such, however, was the ascendancy of that hostile feeling, and he believed it had not been a little aggra vated, by the industrious circulation of those rumours, of the arts employed in stirring up the Indians against them. Mr. WHITBREAD said, he derived. great con solation from the statement of the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, that Mr. Madison and Mr. Monroe had been forced into the war with this coun try against their own inclinations, by a party. Espe cially as with ersons who, according to the Hon. Gentleman's acco p unt, possessed with so conciliatory a spirit, if an equal spirit of conciliation were displayed by those who guided the Councils of this country, little difficulty could intervene, and little time could elapse before peace should be re-established between the two countries. The Hon. Gentleman's speech was a contradiction to itself, however, for in one part of it he says, the Government would not, if it could have avoided it, with the diminished means they pos si:ssed (four frigates only and a deficient revenue), have entered into a war with the first naval power in 'lie world, but that they were over-ruled and forced into it by the people. Yet the Hon. Gentleman seem after told the House, that a majority of the Ame r i can peopl e w e r e i n favour of peace with this country.— These were inconsistencies which the Hon. Gentleman only could explain ; but one thing, however, he (Mr. Whitbread) could conceive, namely, that the imprudent conduct of those who had - had the ma naoement of the contest in this country, since it ha commenced, had given the American people a tastt for the war, by suffering two of our finest frigates to tall into the hands of the Americans, feeble as their marine was. The Honotkable Gentleman had said, he did not know whether the repeal of the Orders in Council, had the news of that event reached Amer:ca previous to the Decimation of War being issued, would have prevented the war taking place.— To satisfy his doubts on that he:4d, he referred him to the President's Message, in se hich it was distinctly ' stated, that had the news of that measure arrives sooner, it would have had the effect of preventinp the war. If, therefore, a motion made by an Hon. Friend of his (Mr. Brougham), in an early part (.1 last Sessions, had been acceded to, this war might have been avoided—(Hear, hear)—a war which it had been found very difficult to enter into, but which it would, he feared, &so be found more difficult to put an end to. Mr. Whitbread then proceeded te animadvert on what had been stated by Lord Castle reagh on the subject of impressing American sea men, and of the abuses stated to have taken place in American ports, in granting certificates to seamen. He wished to know of the Noble Lord, whether any representation of these facts, which appeared to be so well known to the Noble Lord, had been made to the Ainerican Government ? If such representations had been made, and the offender had nct been dis missed, then he would say, the charge was brought home to that Government. Ii no such representation had been made, the American Government might still be ignorant and innocent of the fact. He, for one, could not but think our mode of impressing sea men had been conducted in a manner calculated to give considerable offence to an independent Power. He thought, however, a negotiation on the subject might have been opened, and even that one might and c ught now to be cart ying on. It was said in our Declarazion, that America was subservient to the interest of France. He denied that it was so.— She had been oppressed by us, and oppressed by France—but she had declared fel. neither. Notwith standing all that he bad said, however, he should vote for the Address, as he felt it his duty, now we were engaged in the contest, to support it. Mr. CANNING rose. He observed that the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) had, in the speech with which he prefaced his motion, very properly stated that the only question for the House now to consi der was, whether upon a view of the question, they would give their voice in favour of the justice of the cause in which the country was embarked, and placing out of their view all points of minor consideration, say, we think our country in the right.—(Hear, hear,) and are determined to support her in asserting that right. In taking such.a view of the subject, he was glad to find himself relieved from minor details, and would not dwell at any great length upon the sub ject. The Honourable Gentleman who spoke last, in expressing his regret, mingled that regret with consolation, in reflecting that the differences with America were now reduced to a single point.— lie agreed with him, that if the differences with that country could be brought into discussion with one who could represent that Government divested of the passions that seemed at present to influence it, then, indeed, there might be some probability of success, even on the subject of impressment ; but, combined as the contention was with national feeling and na tional passions, it did not appear to him to be one of such very easy settlement. With respect to impress ment, he would not allow i: to be a point in which equal concession could be made. The statute which the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Whitbread) had alluded to, he was disposed to construe it very differently from him. By that statute this country intended to mark what she could do municipally, imparting by it to other nations the knowledge of what it was in her power to do, by considering, as an adscription to her society, those persons who had served in her Navy for the space of two years. It was not intended by that Act to place the subject of another country in such a situation as would, in the event of war with that country, relieve him from allegiance to his own sove reign. Such was not the (laming of the Act. What likeneil then ants therebeßieen that ActincittreO ndw brought forward by the Athetican Gotermnetlt Those claims were distinctly aVostred by the oigin that Government; who, with respect to Masi' set, men servin on board American vessel s , w a s t ep d to have sai l they have become American sailors, an. i ' must be protected against any right their Soverei. might claim to their services. So far from confiders ing the Statute alluded to as placing Great Britai • • under the same circumstances as America, he woul • say, that if a similar law were promulgated by th Government of America; one great step would he made towards the settlement of that d spnte. But when they considered the practice, together with the rights which citizenship was supposed to confer in America--that it was supposed to remove the indea structible right of birth and alltgiance, and all those ties that bind men to their country and their Sove. reign—he wondered that any person could for a mo. ment consider, that the Statute of Ahne, and their certificate of citizenship, were of the same nature. It did not appear to him that there was any thing on the face of the papers bet;:re the House, from which it appeared that this country had shut the door against negociation. In the two first proposals for negocia. don, it had been refused as to the mode of commence. ment, because in that mode there was dentaneed by America, in a covert way, the concession of an import: • ant point. Was that a fair mode of proceeding? Whe.• ther this point was defensible or not, at least it was a long-established usage—it was one of which, according to the est tblished lawof nations, Great Britain was long ~ in possession. It was proposed to discuss the point; ), but the proposal implied an abatement of the right, during the period of discussion. Nothing so pr. pos.ii retorts could have been expected by America, as • this country would trust to her enactments for the re gelation of a right so important. If it had beta once yielded up, even for a moment, the renewal it would lead only to additional exasperation. 11 iti were once pantei with, how was it to be rectrverecif except by a war of perhaps tenfold asperity The other point alluded to in the course of the debate, re (erred to the blockades instituted by this country.—. On this subject :-.11 appeal was made to his recollec• don, whether the blockade of 1806 teas not made a matter of remonstrance ; and whether it was n. ...lie origin of some irritation in America If his memory did not deceive him, that blockade wash • deed made a matter of inquiry by the America . ; Minister then in this c o un t r y, b ut w h en exp l a i ned him, Le expressed himself satisfied ; the blockade of 1806, howeVer, Merged in that of 1807; an. when in January of the latter year it assume. the appearance of a retaliatory measure, then it became a matter of remonstrance on the part of the American Government. It centinnes so still Ind was the foundation of the Decrees of November, ,t.hich seemed to be the ground of the present quarrel. The measure of 1806, permitted ingress and egress, with respect to neutral ports. Ater that came the Milan Decree, from which the decree of 1607 mole rise, which was founded on the same princi, le as the Decrees of November. With respect to that part o the Noble Lord's (Castlereagh) speech,alluding to the% :ime at which America thought proper to commen 47 hostilities, he did not by any means consider it - out o reason. Every on ewlro looked to the state of Europ e at that time—who looked to the fortunes which his I count:) , had at stake—who looked to the useful, nor the splendid, part which America might have taken in that contest—who looked at the infant Child of Britain becoming the ally of France and the plus. dear of Spain, (Hear, hear,) lending her aid in sup. port of the most desolating tyranny that ever op. pressed the world ; looking at all this, it was impos. Bible not to feel indignant that she had lost an cppor. tunity, which no combination of circumetantes could perhaps ever again restore. He would not go so far as to wish that America had declared war against France. He never thought it to be her proper policy. He merely wished her to I•emain in a state of neutrality He would not have asked her to r'sk a tender and infirm resistance. He would not have demanded o her to run these risks ; but judging impartially, and considering which risk was preferable, to which court. try she should lend her aid, to Fiance or Great Bri tain, he would not hesitate a moment as to the choice, , but he would not unit her to the alternative. Ho feared that neither the vision, which one contem; plated with delight in the ancient republics, were yet realized in America, nor the more refined commercial improvements of modern republics. He was afrai. that some hope of taking this country unprepared for defence in her Settlements had entered into the estimation of the American Government, other. wise he could not conceive, that a country so badly prepared as had been represented by the Honourab Gentleman (Mr. Foster) could have embarked in such a contest. He regretted that the 1500 miles o sea-coast alluded to by that Gentleman, had not been assailed. He regretted that with a navy of only four frigates, she should have taken two from this country It was no excuse to say that the scene of action for th British fleet was extensive beyond any former exam ple. He feared the Admiralty held the pen in their hand, when they should have launched their thunder. , Admiral Warren sailed with the Beet under his corn. mand about the middle of August, and arrived at Halifax on the 27th of September. There he re. mained for a considerable time. On the 10th of Oe.. tober,Commodore Rodgers sailed from Boston. Why s , he would ask, was not Admiral Warren before Bo ton, either to intercept the American squadron, or to keep it cooped up in that harbour, and prevent the enemy from putting to sea ? it was not until seve. f ral months had elapsed, that Government took any notice of the American declaration of war —not un til the 13th of October last, although the Americas Declaration reached this country about the end July. Why was there not some notice taken of it , sooner? Or why was it noticed then ? it was, becauss on the 10th of October, Government received intelli. gence of the loss of the Guerriere ;—an event which made an impression on the minds of the people , of Great Britain, more forcible than any which • could have been produced by the most awful eon. vulsion of nature. (Hear, hear.) He did not blame the acts of the Government, but he complained of their being dilatory. ,The Macedenian had been captured by that very squadron which had escaped trom Boston, because Sir John Borlase %men was lin the harbour of Halifax, instead of being where he should have been, off Boston. He did not impute ' any blame to the conduct of the officers and men of. " t h e uthrtunate ships which had berm captured. Oa •