Star. — London, England, 1813-03-18 00:00:00

. . s • . s. .., .. . 1I 1- c' . .. , Ai • ..1e,p . •• , 4. .i1k. i. ; the . Reiner hid fettlried heft letter twice i—but the such as the, if on. Gentleman had taitlle Xille latter had thought it his dots , to read it to the Heine, I and. which : he had,. heard pith, regret .. (ife n i;, 4 lgni.) where it had pr dueed a disiussion which afforded I Stich speeehes were only.cskulated to encrease the , to hit mind inexpressible gratifications She. begged evil they. lamented, and to defeat the ends proireed. to be illowesi, to say, theta had theeffect of. relieving The, Hon. Gentleman. had ninindqued his onginal h e r mind from a weight,of uneasiness, and her the- notice, and seemed onh tolinve brought forWarChis ' ratter f r om a burden of reproach.. That innocence, motion as a vehicle far his speech, which entry man o f which thifiad been always conscious, was nowmade in die gouse taut see Could be productiee of no known and Published to the world. She begged to gOod effect. The Hon: Gentleman's proceedings explain that in what she had been induced to say re- -had been irregular, and would effect itethidg, but to lative to the confirmation of the f!rineese her daugh. I degrade the charatter of hii Royal Highness. He t er, she had spoken uninformed of the wish on the! had indulged himself, under the mask of defending subject, and the intention entertained by his Majesty.. the Princess of Walesein an =fait, an, illiberal, acid If her intercourse with her daughter should be rests)... unparlianientary attack on the Prince Regent, ; red to its formei state, she would willingly acquiesce j Mr. WHITBREAD here called to order' and de- , in any Injunction which his Royal Highness should , sired the words of the Noble LOrd might be taken be pleased to communicate, and confidently trusted : down: - He preferred settling such a qdestiori father that her conduct would prove unexceptionable: She '. in the. House thap Otit of it . , again threw herself at his feet, and subscribed herself, 1 The SPEAKER ordered the words to be taken &c." (Hear, hear.) This , was a hasty sketch S. but down accordingly; which ha+iag been read by the be understood that the Prince s s had copied it with her i Clerk, ... wished ' . 1 awn hand, when she was informed that a host of at- I Mr. WHITI3READ to icnow if the Noble torneys, and spies, and informers, and vermin, were I Lord persisted in this assertion ? as, in this case, he aga in at work, thatthecarriOn evidence, solotig biltied, ' should move; " That the Noble Lord and he (him was to be flung before the publi, and to offend the ge- I self) • should withdraw s and let the klodse decide On neral sense -.- that the Donglases were again sent for.--, the mode of proceedint!' ~ ~ , . . truderthesetircumstances,couldshebeexpeetedtosend .. The SPEAKKR first I t ißwed to bow froth the itt He had himself heliithe late debate to be a verdict Noble Lord, if 1114 were his words t of acquittal—a verdict in which all who had joined Lord CASTLEREAGH said, he saw nothing la in that debate most entirely concurred. He had then the words.tO Ater.. . naturally entertained the hope that her Royal High-I The SPEAKEIt—id Are that the wakds the Noble Hess bad at length arrived at the period .when ,she , Lord employed ? . . ! . might be permitted to leave her lonely state — that 4" LOrd CASTLEREAGH. t stated that unAi; she sun was again shining upon her, and that she elle mask of defending the Princess of Wales, the might now be received again by her Royal husband . lion. C e etitlemltt had indelged himself id an Unfair, Had this letter been sent, all might now have ,been . illiberal, and enitarliionentary perional attack on hilt at rest. Unfortutsately, this had been rendered im - Royal Highness the Prince Regent. He had feteired practicable, and he had only to lament , the disap. to the, chapter of 11 publication where his Royal pointment of his wishes and intention,. s; Berne the Highn ess was spoken of,, and Said, that if' the Prin- Representatives of the People of England, then," Fess of Wales was even .criminal; it must be the fault exclaimed Mr. Whitbread, " I now defy the accu- of .she Prince Regent." . . xis of her Royal Highness the Princess of Wales. I , Mr.., WHITBREAD sai d, if his eondutt hid do.not pronounce her innocent, but I challenge them .been irregular he ottght to have been stopped at the to prove her guilty; I call upon them to produce time; and sere be was, if he had Said any thing their charges, and tb bring her Royal Higlineskao a derogatOry to the Crown, or the Representative of public triai. She cannot prosecute—she has no hus- the Crown, be would have been called to order by hand to prosecute for her L I have heard it said, that the.Cfrair: ~•t - she she should leave the country. Alas! Sir, ii it for .. The SPEAKER said ; the Noble Lord had a innocence to fly I and where is It that she can retire ? right to proceed, or he must take the sense of the Vhe is at once doubly unfortunate, for she is of the House. - . - ;milli eialted rank, and the most unprotected woman Lord CABTIAREAGH said, that hii objection in the kingdom. Let us look at experience; let us to the Hon. Gentlernatei speech was, that it awas an Consult our feelingi. She castle here to a high des- unfair attack upon •ari inaivichial in his absence. tination, but on the hard condition that attaches to Mr. TIERNEY spoke to order. He wished to female .' royalty ; she came, a foreigner, unknowing know if the Noble Lord persetered i t s what he had and unknown, to meet the fate that might await her. Aid: If he meant to ray, diet froni the result and Let Us remember what befel Carolina Mat Ida, the whole argument of his HOW. Friend's speeth he drew lister of his piesent Majesty, who was unfortunately the inference he had stated, df course he had nothing Married to a person unworthy Of her, the then King to say;* hula' he made the direct charge of such an of Denivark. A conspiracy was formed in the Court attatk,:the House could not pass it over.. Did the of that kingdom, which arose out of a struggle for Noble Lind re-assert his words ? • , ~. ~ peWer, and two individuals,. Brande and Struensee, Lord t ASTLEREAGH.- 4 I sta t e that, from ' were executed, as being crithinall y connected with the whole emirse of the Hon. Gentleman's argu the Queen. The historian di those transactions', after ment, his speech seemed to be an attack of the de noticing the affliction of hii Majesty, obserCed, that . scription I have Mentioned." , . . . ell was to be ascribed to the Want of Sir and ade- Mr. WHITBREAD .— "" If the Noble Lord says queib tribunals in that country. The unhappy Ma- thil was his inference item my 'Speech, I deny bay. tdda icing ht .her husband in Vainthrough armed men, ing meant any such thing. Does the Noble Lord s and wodlid have found no protection but for the say , that such was the tendency of any words of powerliil intercession Of . his Majesty. She was, by mine?" these means, removed to Zell , in Hanover, where Lind CASTLEREAGH.- 4 Id o not speak of ibe died at.the age of 24, thevictiti of her sutler- words. Such le the inference I draw front the coons iugs, and principally, as it had been said, Of grief it of the argument we i have heard." the separation from her children. The high legal The Noble Lord then continued. The Hon. , authorities in Denmark declared there was no legal Gentlemah had laid two Newspapers on the table, Criminality in the Queen's conduct, and just so disci and proposed bringing the Printer and Publisher to any Lord Eldon pronounce the legal innocence of the bar of the House, or rather having them prose the Princets of Wales. But these mysterious exa. cuted by the Attorney-General. Did he think such minations still continue, and her Royal Highness a proceeding would have an 7 tendency to afford the rinds, notwithstanding the boast of the historian, that wishedfor redress to the Princess of Wales t He' there is even in this country no tribunal to which lamented as much as any man the disclosure of the her guilt or innocence could be brouglt to issue. documents contained in those papers; but those who She has, however, the consolation to know, that her begin this disclosure, whether in or out of doors, i father, whose great heart, as it had been well said. were alone blameable. They all knew that those do- ) heist with sorrow at th e dow n f a ll Of t he . P russ i an c uments were not in the hands of the States but ur monarchy, had received all the papers relative to individuals, and would the House think it expedient the Investigation of her conduct, and had ekpressed to take up two papers as the ground of a proceeding his dying conviction of his d a u g ht er ' s i nnocence .— 'o n thi s s ubject. Would the 'Hon. Gentleman, with Her mother too was in this country equally satisfied, his knowledge of the Princess of Wales, think that and to her bosom she might retire for solace in her she would be gratified or her situation improved by solitude and afflictitn. She had but two surporters such a proceeding I He had given notice of a mo.. in the vindication of her character, her husband and tion for trying Lady Douglas, but finding insur the law. Would the House deprive her of the latter ? rpountable obstacles to that mode of proceedin , —(Near, hear, hear!) —The course he had taken was he had very wisely made his retreat. (A laugh ) . open and direct, he had advi s ed no t h reaten i ng l etters , —H e wa s determined, however, to make his speec , be had at once appealed to the representatives of the and tor that purpose.had resorted to another motion. people in her behalf. He did not wish to execute On the whole, he seemed unable to find out how he justice on the memory of Mr. Perceval, but Lord should proceed, but in the meantime his speech must Chancellor Eldor. was alive, and .on him he would still increase the agitation of the public mind. A syll ugly execute justice, it he could.—(Hear, hear, great part of the Hon. Gentleman's speech had gone hear !)—He should certainly abstain froth making to blame the conduct of the Commissioners, his own l the motion of whi c h h e h a d g i ven not i ce , an d ear - Noble and Learned Friends ; and he (Lord Castle. nestly, hoped that a disposition similar to that which reagh) was surprised that an Hon. and Learned he knew to exist on one side. might be evinced, for it Gentleman (Sir Samuel Rornilly) who assisted in it was never too late on the other. The Hon. Mem. taking down the depositions before the Commis bcr having then caused a portion of the publications . sinners, had not remained in the House to justify the on which6e had animadverted to be read, grounded conduct of his Noble Friends. (Hear, hear, hear.) — .on it-a motion to the following effect : He could not have foreseen that that Learned Gen " That having seen with deep concern and indignation certain tleman would have. left Lord Ellenborough or my publicatLons offeneive to decency and good morals, and which Lord Erskine in this helpless state, under so heavy MR be e ir r e s h e ippainful to the feelings of them high persons . a charge from the Honourable Gentleman. We, interested, as well as to those of ,every good subject, that they (the present Cabinet) had been acctoed by the Hon. did therefore, resolve, That an humble Address be presented to Gentleman of being inconsistent. The Honourable it's Royal Highness tire Prince Regent, praying that he would be Gentleman has stated, said his Lordship, that I have given a verbal acquittal of her Royal High grassiest), pleased to clinec proper means to be taken for the pur r** of bringing to justice alt persoos concerned, with a view to ness on this subject :—this I certainly did, as not prevent the repetition and cCustinuance of such publications." having it in my power to do otherwise. lam not Iced C4STLERE AMI could not persuade him- in a situation, as a Member of this House, to judge ic of her guilt or innocence. As a Member of the sea l w et , the Hon. Membe r intended they should re- Cabinet I also gave my opinion from the evidence be surd the whole of h li s speech as an argu ment in sup- fore me, and still adhere to it and contend, that that art of the Motion with which be had just concluded. ! _ t t r opinion gave WAS not inconsistent with the Declare- The Hon. Gentleman had recomm ended concliation, , tion of the Cabinet in 1807, to which I also axed dint had the coniuct that had -bent followed by the my name. 1 did not believe that opinion could be advisers of the Princess of Wales a tendency to pro contradicted. My late opinion in the Cabinet respect ducethis eff2ct ? The Hon. Gentleman himself had in g restricted intercourse, was not founded on any made a disclosure in:Parlament,which, from the filse idea of criminality, but in the expediency of the case. impression it was calculated to give, required the dis- . with respect to the Duke of Portland's Cabinet, I .closure of other documents. 'f wo letters from the WAS not called on to judge either of guilt or inno- King had also been brought forward by those who cence, lint merely to give my opinion from the do atiected to be in the viii teat of she Princess of cements had before me. It is unfair to put to me Wales ;all which publications gave no prod' of any such questions as the Hon. Gentleman has done. I desire to conciliate. He did agree with the Hon. am not in a situation competent to judge, nor is the Gentleman, that the interests of the Mouarchy itself House in a situation competent to judge, eitbeaot .were incurred in this qualm, and perhaps never more innocence or guilt. Every individual, therefore, must than in the course that was now proper to be taken. .. Ibe pronounced innocent till found guilty (Rear, hear) _lt Was evident that such a question led to sivecues . . • - • . . ''• • !' • • • •:1 tory. f t i .• o, ~ • 41 1 . •;. ta,the dna none ntlew. , MI 01 nag LA* liost.osider the Duke of Portland was. that it - Was , at atiasimeitt hither to 'Mtge of the guilt or inno. OeOfe of any of his Majesty's subjects, "'tech lesi of cil4 Of his own family ; and they gave it as their opi awn, that rp) further.proceeding from the documents before them should take place, and that, therefore; the Princess of Wales ought to be received by his Majesty. The- Hon. Gentleman had said, that we ought to come to a deciiion in some shape or other ; and did he think the mock .trial of a newspaper would contribute to the Princeit's hondbr t . He said, that some inquiry was necessary, and with this he set out ai ti Preliniinary one, but what alteration would this make in the state of case ?He had told the Hon. Gentleitait on a former day, that he would answer no question till he should know the object of.his pro ceeding. In his plate in the Hchise he would answer no iluestion more than out of it; .till he saw its pro., priety. He had 'hewn the Hcinentlernan that he would not submit to be catechisi4 at pfeasure; ripe now that lie saw the Object of the,Hon. Gentlenian's ' mptioni had he ant reason to regret his forbearance. The Him. Gentleman thought Pikiament ought to interim to give her Rotel Highness the protection of the'Lawt but when p rocs adings shodld be iititituta, the Princess - would Lave all the benefit of that tection. Clamour, certainly, Was the most improper defence that could be made If Parltameht gave countenance to the present proceeding, the. public mind must inefritably be agitated; and no proceeding on the part of Parliament could be productite of good to any party, in any view of justice. He sittsci therefore, give his negative to the Motion: Mr. PONSONBY informed the House; that jig had sent a note to Sir Samuel Romilly, to inforiin hint of the netitsitt 'of his presence, and expressed his intention to itipport the Motion, principally ad the ground, that if the offensive pliblications cont. plained of *ire tolerated in the present instance, °theft or a similar nature would be obtruded on the Community, to the great detriment of public morals. Mr; B. BATHURST contended, that there was itrimg distiuttion between the present publications and any others which Might be offensive to delicacy, and therefore that the precedent the Right Hon. tleman wished to have established was unnecessary. Ltd MILTON had hit doubts whether he shoUld have rdled for the prosecution of Lady Douglas, or Whether he should have given a vote at all. But now' he had•no doubts as to the vote he should give. The rank of the parties distinguished this case from any other ; but even in the case of a private individual, he should think a prosecution warranted. Let.the responsibility fall upon the heads of those who had advised the publication. In the name of injured morals, he called upon the House to punish; when it was so justly dtie. Mr. CARTWRIGHT should vote against the Motion, as no possible good could arise from it. He, in common with ethers, laMented that such a publi. _ cation shotild hive appeared ; but the author of the first letter had led 'he *ay.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. STEPHEN had seen the publication alluded to with shame and grief. The Book itself he had never seen, but he was called up on the present occasion by his wish to do justice to the memory of his late Right Honpurable Friend. The Hon. Gentleman had said he should spiie the memory of Mr. Perceval, because ' the evidence contained certain indecent passages, he had regarded it as contaminating the name of Mr. Perceval, a name never connected with any thing im pure or ii amoral—(Hear, hear.) He misted the Hon. Gentleman would explain 'himself—was it an offence if Mr. Perceval intended an appeal to the pub lic upon the subject of the evidence that had ap peared I The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Whitbread) ar gued a complete acquittal, from the Princeu having , been admitted at Court. That admission to Court certainly did away the charge of criminality, though he did not go along with the assertion, that the charge of levity had also been done away. But had the Princess been minded, she would have been sup / posed guilty of the whole charge, which all must concur in terming a foul aspersion—(Near, Hear.)— On that point there could not be two opinions. Had the exclusion continued, Mr. Perceval thought the public should be the judge. Was it indecent that Mr. Perceval did not garble the evidence ? Had the evi dence been partial, no fair judgment could have been formed. Deeply did he lament that the Princess had now no similar advocate, for her present advocate was only recommeded by his zeal. " An open foe might prove a curse, " But an imprudent friend was weasel" Would a prosecution for indecency establish either the guilt or the innocence of the Princess I—(Hear.) The examination had been conducted with the utmost impartiality, rather with a leaning to find the Prin cess not guilty.—( Hear, hear.) Sir S. ROMILLY, (who had entered the House during Mr. Stephen's speech,) observed, that he un derstood, that since he left the House in an early part of the evening, an important statement had been i made, which called on him for some explanation. He had•no idea when he left the House, which was for the purpose of an indispensable attendance in a Court of Justice, that his Hon. Friend was about to say any thing which would require from him such an ex planation. He felt extremely sorry that it was, after all, impossible for him to explain the occurrence on which the House wished for explanation, especially as it had been supposed that a serious charge lay on him. It would be in the recollection of that House, that when on a former night he had stated what bad passed during the examination by the Commissioners, he said that he attended all their meetings except one. That one was the last; it took place on the 3d of July, and was that at which the examination of Mrs. Lisle occurred. This, hbwever, he would say, that unless the examinations on that day were con ducted on a different principle from those which had before taken Flace, the information communicated to his Hon. Friend must be untrue. The questions were never taken down, the answers only being written, just as in ordinarreases of infOrmation before a Ma. gistrate. The depositions were then read over to the various witnesses, who corrected any inaccuracies which they might contain, and afterwards signed them. Mr. JOHN SMITH had expected that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. -Stephen) would have expressed a greater horror at the publication so often alluded to—Out the Honourable Gentleman's mora lity generally chimed in •with the disposition of the Government- Had similar charges been brought against the wits of any individual, tl , ,at indi, id,;,) . . _..._ i . t" • 4 tit, L. -. -1 1 iith• • . set metre itt.the thanes. ier ill*: WI 'the Hain could not reftisetei.aheptiesci in the . It his' Hentraridole. 14414. it eras . toe carman . Or hat iinuae -p) cabmen a contez e tfor pteilic °pi. , i"*lt. At present there Was no • se in.the kinga 'on white the cnnduet of the wife of the Prince lie. g •nt was not eanvassed; He was eirwilling . to Pea. acute. for libel j but very lately he .had seen iipeas• • ter convicted of caltimniating an Illustrious Peters and shotild thiii Rouse 1-,:fuse to hitt:Wife to vividileato the honour of it injured wontau ? ' ..." • hia ' • • Mi. STEPHEN said he hid expreised diorite probation of the puhlication in questioci Mr. LASCELLES had thought that One of two prOceedings would have flied proposed f..either the; something should be done to bring her Royil.High. ness before a public Tribunal, or that the same should be done to those who we said to have titter. ed preuries against her. He was surprised, however , to fin thal• th e only th ing proposed was to reseal's the E dddditoi, ker., of twe Newspapers. . • . The ATTORNEY-GENERAL wished to say it few, reithi; ,not on his pwn acct unt, but on that of his excellent and lamented R.ght Hon. Friend. and of his Right Hon. and. Learned Friend, Sir Vicar Gibbi, who were with himself, the legal advisers of her Royal Highness the . Princess of Wales at the Period which had been so frequently alluded to during the discussion.. It must be remembered that bar Royal Highness's legal advisers were bound to con sider all the consequences that might result to her from remaining silent on the subject of the charges that had been preferred against her ; leaving Cho Public in the dark relative to the secret inquiry di rected against her honour and her life. If they had *diked her Royal Highness to rest, excluded from fist Royal presentel-to rest, without communicating to the Public a statement of the facts, would not that have appeared to countenance the strong imputations legainst her? On those grounds they gave her Royal Highness the opinion which they had given r not in ignorance of the objectionable nature of the publica tion, but with the conviction that it was necessary for the honour and character of her Royal Highness, that unless she were admitted to the Royal presence, the whole should be submitted to the Pubitc ; that they might judge of her innocence. Mr. TIERNEY observed, that from what the Honourable and Learned Gentleman had stated, it appeared that the Book was intended ar a complete defence of her Royal Highness; that three persons were engaged in f ilming that defence, namely, the Honourable and Learned Gentleman, Mr. Percival. and he supposed the Lord Chancellor. (" No I" said the Attorney-General—Sir Vicary Gibbs.) — Well then, said Mr. Tierney, Mr. Perceval, Sir 'lle.; mas Plomer, and Sir Vicery Gibbs, were tlk legal advisers of her Royal Highness, and they judged it expedient, because there had been a secret inquiry, that the innocence of her Royal Highness should be made public. He would therefore again ask the 'Noble Lord whether there is not a secret inquiry going on at the present moment? (Near, hear.)—The Noble Lord did not dwell to answer; then he (Mr. Tierney) must affirm that a iircret iaquiry is going on, and after the declaration that the Hoe. and Learned Gentleman had just made upon the subject of the former secret inquiry, he sh , ,uld be glad to know if the Hon. and Learned Gentlenian could divest himself of his political character, why he did not advise a public explanation ? He Should be glad to know why it was necessary et the time alluded to to suppress the labours of these Legal Gentlemen by the payment of a large sum, why those three great Lawyers were so. tisied with the reception of her Royal Highness, at Court? Did they imagine that the visits of her Royal Highness at St. James's would have the effect of com pletely whitewashing her? He should likewise be glad to be informed whether her Royal Highness her self suppressed the publication, or whether she agreed to it under legal advice—but, for the sake of the as he would agree to the latter. How was she now treated ? The same complaints still existed ; nay more ; she was not allowed what, in ordinary life, every mother is allowed, access to her child. Would the Hon. and Learned Gentleman suppress .he pub lication at the present moment, yet to-night be did not '. even venture an opinion ? Had any thing new occur red in the inquiry which precluded him from giving such advice ? Was not the inquiry grounded apse the same sort of evidence ? It was with extreme pain that he (Mr. Tierney) referred to the dis cussions, but matters were come to that pass that it was necessary tiasift them to the bottom—(Hear, hear.) It became necessary to ask the Noble Lord whether any thing was going op against the Princess of Wales?—lf he answered in the affirmative, then he should not vote for the Motion of his Honourable Friend. But the matter might be afterwards properly enquired into by the House. He did wish the Noble Lord to state the grounds upon which the present inquiry was proceeding, bat whether it was prior or subsequent to 1807. All that he insisted upon was, that her Royal Mighness ought not to be suffered to remain in her present situation. He was driven to assume, that the inquiry was going on with the knowledge of Ministers, for no sign nor gesture could he obtain from the Noble Lord to satisfy his mind; that the fact was so. But assuming as much, be would ask, what right Mr. Conant, the Magistrate, had to send for any of his Majesty's subjects for the purpose of exafnining them, touching the conduct of her Royal Highness ?..--(Hear, hear.)—Still more, why, when the Privy Council was in full vigour, was thee Gentleman, respectable certainly he was, per.. mitted to meddle with matters of State t Why was he allowed to examine Lady Douglas, on matters affecting in their consequences the succession to the 'throne ? Who gave Mr. Conant the authority ? —These were questions which required answers--- With respect to the documents, it was true that he could not, if on a Jury, find a verdict against the Printer of any Paper fur the publicatioa of this Libel,-.-bnt though this was his opinion, still be thought it material to know from the Printer of the Paper, from whom they received those dour, menu. .-- It was true, that when called to use Bar, they might not give such answers as should ins. inediately lead to the discovery of the author, but the Hause must call persons to the Bar, till they got at the right person. The Right Hon. Gentleman con tended, that the House was bound to interfere and to see that her Royal Highness had justice done her.-.. There had bent strange rumours abroad, that his Royal Highness had taken counsel from bad advisers. Would not tile wiaiiintous vote el this House pass