Star. — London, England, 1829-03-07 00:00:00

,-- 4 parts at the cuuntry from a the measure of the Government, the ri.k of losing his seat. lie re , *iced .tholics were to be put in the .31114 COn.l Non as the other classes of Diesenters, as that would unite all In a bond of common strength which might uhintrely rgiie,,ve the .I.tablisised Church from some of its privilegee-0011—efooloments. - Icwae became be thought the measure would tend to the advance- Meet of pare religion, and tp re•ieve the country from the weight ref •an ereannous Church Establishment. that be was satisfied his conduct in supporting it would, in the end, be approved by his con. stitnents, as it was now by his dissenting friends. Mr. SPRING RICE could not help expressing bb surprise at the sentiments which had fallen from the Hon. Alentbetlor Col chester who had now for die first time come forward as an advo cate fo e emancipation. The views of the Hon. Member were sin• pular ladeed, and he ( Air. Rice) would undertake to say, that they were not such as would have been taken by those whom be should take the liberty of designating as men of wise and rational mind. He (Mr. Rice) was a friend to this question, but on different grounds from those taken by the Hon. Member foe Colchester. The effect of the present measure would be, not to attack the Church Establishment, but to acquire new frlendvto it, while the number of its enemi es would be diminished. He (Mr. Rice) would rather the Hon. Member bad preserved his neutrality, and had withheld his support, than have come forward with, he would not say Invidious, but at all events with details, and mistaken views of the 'question. Mr. AGAR, ELLIS presented a Petition from the inhabitants of Enmity, in favour of the Roman Catholic Claims. The Marquis of CH A NDOS presented a Petition front the Clergy, Merchants, and Inhabitants of the city of Glasgow, signed try 56 OW persons. He did not consider the character of the Irish Roman Catholics so bad as it bad been represented. Ile hollered that their feelings and passions were worked amen, wren to the point of rebellion / by a caftan 'class of persons not actaated by public motives, but fur personal interest; and be was site, that U requisite, the Irish people would come forward manfully, as they had always done, in defence of the country. He trusted that the 11111, whkb, Übe undehteod it rightly, would have the effect of overthrowing the Constitution would not be suffered to pass; new that the Protestant Coostittriati of the country would be sold fee a Ms rood seer—(Laaahier, and cheers). on. bUOUGriAbi said be wished it to be understood that there WAS a Petition of a different character from the same city, which had not so many names attached to it, because, u be heard. those who attempted to sign it were hooted by the mob. Mr. H. 111 AX WELL said that he bad lately presented a Petition from the Clergy of Glasgow. which bad attached to it the names of nil the Clergymen of that city, except four. The Petition was then read. as were several others presented by the Noble Marquis. The Noble Marquis wascootinving to present Petitions, when upon the question of being read was put, Mr. P. MILD MAY said, that as the House and country were Impatient Whear the result of the adjourned debate. be should sug gest to the Noble Marquis the propriety of postponing the reading of Petitions until a future day ; and. to attain his object, be should move, as an amendment, that the adjourned debate be resumed. The Marquis of CH A N DOS said, if the Amendment wore put he should divide the House upon the question. Mr. Secretary PEEL said that be hoped their discussion would be conducted with gond humour. He thought that be might ob viate all difficulties by stating to the HoOse the course which be intended. It was his intention, after going into Committee, to propose a Resolution upon those intentions. Which be had already explained. That might he done on Monday, and the Bill proposed opal that Resolution, if agreed to, be should propose to read a second time on that day week. He also intended. at the same time, to bring in a second Bill for regulating the Elictive Fran. chise in Ireland. In this way there would be sufficient time left for the presentation of all Petitions connected with the measure. He knew the generous nature of the Noble Marquis, sod be hoped be would allow the discus.ion to be resumed, The Marquis of CHANDOS regretted h; could not acquiesce in the suggestion of his Right lion. Friend. If Gentlemen opposite would persist Is having the question put be would divide the House. Mr. A. ELLIS put it to the Noble Lord whether he would pullet in patting it stop to the business of the (louse. Mt. Secretary PEEL said. It was better to allow his Noble Friend to present a few pons ature.—(Cries of" Order of clop ', Day." " Go on.") The Mar uis of CHANDOS presented a Petition against fur titer aepasdon to the Catholics front the Provost and Fellows of the Royal College of Rhin. Crawl SIRTHORPE thought it was the duty of the friends id the Coindtutioa not to allow the House to proceed any further la this detestable ateasitee, which would sap the foundation +f the State. and endanger the cecurity of the Empire—(llear t hear, and laughter). Honourable Members might laugh. but he would ten theta that be'earedns little for their unties as he did ter their frowns, and he would only say to them. " Rlsu Wept° nulls res ineptior." Mr. C. PALLMER would submit to ate House that there was not my byname which mere required their immediate attention thou the number of petitions which were to be presented; and, bumble as he was, even If he were alone. - he would divide the Hduse on the question of proceeding to the Order of the Day while a single petitiun frum the people remain to be presented. The SPICAARR then put the question that the House should proceed to the Order of the Day for continuing the ediuursed do. hate i—The House divided, when there appeared— For the motion . Against it SOS TS Majority tor coarinuing the adjourned debate ...130 On our return to the pUeey. Ms. C. GRANT sthe. He conftsteJ that he was extremely devirous of expressing his opinion on this most important'question; and in the first praoe. with the permission of the Muse, he should refer to a re• mask which had been last night made by his Honour able Friend the Member for Oxford. His Hon. Friend had asked why the ground, on which the claim's of ttie Rnmin Catholics had been always urged in this House were now changed, and whether ice gamut,* w hich had been so long debated on the principles of right and justice was now to be moved solely on the principles of expediency and necessity? As he (Mr. G.) had at all times been the friend of Catholic Emancipation—as be bad supported the measure in gloomy as well as in brighter prospects—be would beg to inform bis lion Friend, that if the ;rounds which be had advocated — the grounds on which it bad formerly been debated in this House by many brilliant friends of the measure sow no more, namely, the principles of right and jos tie% were not now brought forward, it was not that they were abandoned, far less ihat they had ceased to exist; but solely on account of the peculiar and auspi cious circumstances under which the present Will Was to be introduced. His Honourable Friend would like wise recollect that, though the measure had heretofore been grounded on the principles of justice, the capes diency of concessions had been likewise urged. The necessity bad been altogether denied by some—by others it bad been considered as remote; but the period was now arrived when, as the necessity was very generally acknowledged, so it was no longer to berviewed as re mote. It was above them—it was around them—it pressed upon every side. Thu country, he tb. ugin. bad never yet been in a more critical 'headers than at the corameecement of the pe-ent Session of Parliament -- lie bad beard it denied, up to last night, that there diet not Wit a necessity for conciliating the people of Ire lead in the degree which bad been represented by Ms Majesty's Ministers; but he would ask. whether, when the•Sessinsi of Parliament had commenced, there were not ski millions of people arrived at such a bright of disaffection that a single word from one man would have involved the empire in civil war? He lamented that all the Honourable Members who were incite intimately connected with Tieletkl did not see. or aid not acknowledge, the danger ; but he would Teter eve. to tl ore Honourable Members—he would refer to-the Petitions which t'ey had'presenred agahr.t Catholic Emancipatir n....and he would ask whether they did not represent the state of society in that coin trx as convulsed to -its very•foundation? Beu is was suiewient tor his perpf.se an reter-torhat great political phenomenon—that great power which bad sprung . op amongst the people, and which had practically assumel the functions of the Legislature—which bad not only levied eonwibutions shrr ughout the can't y, belt had actually received pecuniary assistance from foreign State., ittid Welt had afforded proiection to the ver) Government which had been unable to contrsul it—. ~ oi!nt ..1: . CI A Nfr, t , A N - L -'' . UMW. • ' '. . e. V 11414141 {A all they caner. otilgl supper although he knew it was at tl joked to thid that Ibe C.tholie • (Hear, bear). •He did not eulogise the Catholic Asia 1 -ciatieir, fit from it ; but t mastfitseh as it represented the, penM of behind, , At would telisU been danoeicitis, e possible, to put it clou n. It fens'ssiat,that Emancipi noursoold noly 'begat tbeltigher tlasoes in Ireland; , .but the Petitioas on the table of the House fully tebisited - snail "an asses lino. It was tharjed ag inst the Roman Catholic, that his religion unfitted hint for tr.edom ; but that he denied, f r no men had been moie , loyallo the Sovereign of these realms—(Hear). rhe Hon•Mensivel f r Oxford said, last tight, that they • were not 1.1 .ced in the alternative of conces , or civil war. But that be det.it d. T u , the army 01 England might have solids d the people of Ireland—the sword might have aept them dowit ; but still, would not th evil exist in as great—aye, a greater degree of aggra vation than ever? Were the PI otebtAi is of Ireland for ever to be art eyed in armed hostility against tile Catho .ics? Could any 'Statesman consent to such a coupe? He denied it. A civil war could be raised in Ireland as it had been thirty years ago; but the necessity for a settlement, it was said, was not now so great as to jus tify concession. Why, what degoe of necessity would they have? He wished to have the country rescued from the triple curse of a civil war—a bloody war— and above ail, a war of religion and religious bigotry. the Hon. Memb r for Oxford had also found fault with the Make of Wellington ; he had almost gone the length of censuring his conduct, because forsooth he was said not to have the at moral courage" of using 6' moral force" to coerce the people of Ireland. It was also said that he who was accustomed to command and to vic• ory should not ha• e flinched from the performance of such a duty. And with what a grace did that come bona the H .n. Member for Oxford, who was never ac cu.tonied to command or conquer? Ht., a civilian, would use " moral from," *hole the Duke of Welling ton, nursed in victory, went on with the peaceable work of settlement and concession —(Hear). The Honourable Member for (Mod and others also said that the proposed measure wou'et be a revolution of the Constitution as established in 1688. For that Consti tution he felt a most mysterious reverence, but he d nied that any of its great fundamental principles would be invaded by granting concession to the Catholics. He fully agreed with the wise and eloquent observations of Gallant OtScet (Sir G. Murray). that he would not look fir the British Cottonton n, either to that Act or the Bill of Rights merely, but to the affection of the people for their religion, and the affection of all classes of His Majesty's subjects to the teal interest of the State. But even if tile question were placed upon he narrower ground of the Act of 1688, be still could fully justify the proposed measure. The exclusion of Catholics horn Parliament was not a fundamental part of that Act, neither was it of the Bill of Rights. The Bill of Rights stated a grievance. and prescribed a remedy. and it further secured the .uccession of a Protestant Crown. Neither A t, however, should be looked at with the lynx-eye of su-picion or exclusion. The firs', the great. the inclis• ' movable object of those Acts was, to preserve iheThrone om the invasion of Po, ery ; as to all the re.t it was nothing but mere machinery, and so every man of sense •mtto at this day consider it. It was also said that the King must make the declaration contained in the 30th Charles 11. Very true and that strengthened his (Mr. C. Grant's) opinion. If Catholic exclusion were con oidesed as necessary as the Protestantism of the Throne, would no provision then have been made for it ? When they said, if the King became a Catholic or mar- ried a Catholic, he should be excluded from the Throne, and the allegiance • f the subject dissolved, it would have been just as easy as it would have been inevitable to say, that when Roman Catholics became Members of Parliament the allegia ice was dissolved. This, how ever, he believed was only the modern comment on the Bill of Rights, for be was aware that at present there were those who maintained that the subject weuld be absolved from his allegiance to the State the moment a RootatiCatholic should enter the House of Commons. He would not enter upon the perilous question of when the allegiance of the subject was dissolved, but he certainly would not be guided by those who,in modern days,under the name of Brusaswic ker., boast their exclusive loyalty. and presume to point out the approaching period as dia. solving that allegiance, at the veiy time they declare their hostility to their fellow subjects for holding what they seem a divided allegiance-o(Hear). If the principle of escluaion could not be found in the Bill of Rights to be a part of the Constitution, where, he would ask, could it be discovered ? or was it consistent with the, sentiments of all the great authors, from Bacon •eatsin to Burke, who all declared that the British Constitution is not an exclusive one ? WO regard to the Act the SOtb of Charles the Second, he would only say that it related to one of the most Gala tuition periods of our history, and that every true friend of his country would wish to see it blotted oat from the page, or that it should remain solely as a warning to future ages. He would beg leave to con gratulate the House on the measures which his Ma. jesty's Ministers were about to introduce. He rejoiced to see this Bill a part of the labours of the present Par liament.. He could not express the delight with which he had listened to his Right Hoe. Friend calling upon the House to emancip ice the Roman Catholics. He considered it a great day for the cc unity. It was a great day for Ireland—it was a great day for his Right Hon. Friend—(Hear). The speech of his Right Honourable Fiend was worthy of the cause which he supported —ot the course be had adopted—of the principles on which the measure was founded. He (Mr. Grant) re garded the Bill about to be introduced as an act ot li berality—an act of generosity—and as an act of justice done in a spirit which gave to it all the grace of a fa vour-(Hear). There were one or two points, perhaps, which might be open to observation and objection, but the character of the Bill, in b.s opinion, did not rest on those points; he looked to the principles of the men sure—he contested his hopes and expectations were most sanguine es to the effect which would be produced by it. A noble LordiChandos) had declared that he thought the.securities to be introduced in the proposed measure vietegood for nothing. In his (Mr. Grant's) opinion the measure did not rely on those securities so much as on its own eioential priocipleat did hot depend ouanycollateral measure, or on any artificial devices,. but on its own solnitantial strength; and this was the main groend•on which he approved of the measure. Let it not be un derstood, however, that he meant to leave the Britioh kingdom, its state,. and its constitution, without secu rities !It bad r flea been said, and it could not be too often•repeated, for, no doubt, serious and sincere alarm *tided in the mind . ' of;inany persons on the subject, that chile, was already sufficient security for the Pro. lament Constitution and Chereh, though not connected arith the- present eiseasore That this security existed 'Was psoyed by.the exertions made to tea* thit Ind much, of this exertion, no doubt, was monacienaiously, Modeoollioari tamp- •It was the • best evidence,. howa ewer, of -the afketion. Mt by the Protest* popula tion of: tbe taiiiitry• tow/Ards the estalslisli/4 cberah, l'be feelings a the Nobility, the Gentry, and thetyeo plenty of Ragland were decidedly in favour of the stablisbed.Church Land all lhoso-sfics'es. were opite4 heart and hand agaisisrthe efforts - 4 the UoistatiXasho. 64444. Now, this . was tiff reasecurify. ;people of this ci untry Wire fsnd layout of 't . •e emisth of this country, what bas theririlikilis Bill couldwhidt affect Ilsa.sectoity.44-tha .est..blishowowt? anything in the prnpn sesl molar., likely, even kr a small degree, to endanger the security.ot the Protestant establishment, much is: he approved cf its principle, he should, for one, fell rte his duty to resist it. , He conceived, floweret chit the security if the Established Church did not depend upon such barriers as could be tai ed by legislative enactments. Its security depended ou its essential principles—on its doctrines—on its put on the zeal and energy of those who ministered at its altars; but, above all, on the strong hold which it had on the hearts and affections, of the people (Hear, hear). By cheerfully assenting to extend to the Roman Cacho. I , cs the privileges which they enjoyed themselves, the Piot• stints of this country would act an example of one of the most ennobling virtue, charity, which was the ebbeliCe of Protestantism. Far his own part, he looked f r securities in the affections not only of the people of this country, but more particularly of the people of Ireland. There would now be a united kingdom. The feelings of seven mitlions would be turned towards this country alter a Itrig night of oppression, and the minds of the Irish would be relieved from the unjust domina tion of their priests, who were by turns tyrants and slaves. The Protestant establishment would find its security in the rank and talents, and wealth, and aristocracy of this country. It would find still mote security in the opi nions and feelings of the people of this country being faiourable to and in accordance with it; and if it wanted additional strength, it would find it in the moral influence of every part of Europe. This, after all, was the security on which the Established Church and the British Constitution rested, and not upon Acts of Par liament, or upon principles of exclusion.—(flear, hear.) Its own worth, and intrinsic value, was the strength, as it was the spirit and essence of the Constitution. He confessed be was most sanguine as to the result of ihe proposed measure. He trusted that his antici potions would net be disappointed. He had no doubt that the measure would be favourably received in that., House, and in the country ; and that it would be re.' ceived in Ireland in the same spirit in which it *lb proposed. 11 he had any influence on the people of Ireland he should conjure them to receive the measure as a boon which had been long solicited, but which was. at length granted in a generous and noble spirit. He war sure the measure would be thus received in Ireland, and that the day the Bill mdse.' the Royal Assent would befOr ever remembered in that country at their solemn meeting's, and in their hours of conviviality,and that it would be rem mbesed, not as the signal cif dis union and discord, but as the pledge of tranquillity on the one hand, and of protection on the other—(Cheers). Mr. V. STUART obsested. that the propositions of M rosters divided themselves into three branchei: the first regarded the main concessions, which he maim say iiad been so largely and liberally made; the second re lated to the securities; to which he thought no reasonable Protestant could object ; and the third was on the sub ject of the elective franchise. Against the last measure i.e must protest; but his opposition to it should not be of a factious character—for he would do nothing on 'earth that should endanger the cat rying of the general measures—(Hear, hear). As to what had been said against the concessions, and after what Ministers had declared, could it be thought that Ireland was to be governed. and resistance to the claims maintained, by brute force and constant blood shedding? That would only create hatred and a yearning to get rid of the yoke. The majority of the Protestants of Ireland were fa concession and adjustment. At present they watt surrounded by an almost mins* Catholic porde. lion ; and who would be compelled to rely on an and. national force, if it could continue to be maintained, for security to themselves and their property ? This state of beings brought the Protestants and the Catholics into 'most alarming collisions; and the Protestants vie* compelled to see the constant propessof alienation on the part of the Catholics. The Protestant proprietors became, as it were, strangers in tteir own land. To imagine that things could so continue would be to lull themselves into a dream. from which they might be I awakened only to see their own folly in the ruin of the 'empire. Those dangers were the result of placing the interests of one class in direct opposition to those of another. These grievances, however, would now be removed. The course was clear; let them rally round he Sovereign and his Ministers as one man, to pomace the uni-n of the empire, peace, amity. and concord. Mr. DICKENSON said, when he recollected what had occurred during the rebellit n in Leland, he could not avoid being friendly to any measure which would secure tranquillity. But when be recollected the scenes which then occurred, be could not give his consent to a measure which went to sanction all those scenes which disgraced Ireland at the period alluded to. If the rhea •u e passed the House, would the Catholics emend the same toleration towards us ?—(Hear, hear). Mr. LIDDELL felt it his duty to declare that he iapproyed of the Bid, and from the beginning to the end of the plan which the Right Honourable Secretary had proposed, he should give it hii warm approbation. He not only approved of the measure, but the manner is which it was brought forward. The Hon. Gentleman adverted to the speech of the Honourable and Gallas* Officer (Sir G. Murray), which he highly approved of for the mild and conciliatory terms employed when op. posing the arguments of the Member for the Univet sit, of Oxford, who, in speaking of the force used by nAi• tary men, had denominated it "brute force." With respect to the question of petitioning, he thought this was the time when the right ought to be allowed. He referred to a speeelrof Lord Chatham, upon the sublets of the resistance made by America, in which that Nubia Lord expressed his satisfaction that . theyisad resisted . ; for, he said, the Government bad drisea them to it by their measures. j rhis speech, *Wails sestaNdis, might• be applied to the state Id Ireland. Mr. BROUGHAM and another Member rose toge ther, but the latter gave way. , I can amuse the Hon. Member that I shall not stand many minutes between. lidos and the House. Ido hot rise to debate the gees. lion, or to offer any answer to the thousand times re futed arguments against Concession, but principally t. 'spins toy sincere and unqualified approbation of tht measure, as a whole, propounded. by Ministers. It gob die full length that any reasonable Man ever did, or thler can demand; it does equal justice to his Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects-4i puts as end to ail liti gious distinctions-4c Itzturinittates all civil disqualis -feationg. on account oflellgiotii belief. It is simple and efficacioos, clogged pith nu exceptions, unless stleti as Alen stbe moat suralous. of she Catholics thaw melees must admit to be of necessity parcel of the trea itote:' InitneerbetV it to me a. it did when 1 !tit heard it "priiyuseit oi . subsequent refloc . dais Ify opium is ca sf:lrfej,lts* far air any toolbars 111 the Legislature can do so, to proclaim through the King e ll dominions, that religious discord shalt be nt rl .)••. MGM I no w come to the cf..clara:4.r. vi." , .• • . -lave a -little wid require from Roman Cethol• .:.; ..:,. :). • tiatile•a 13.1 l to sup :become Members ot this House. am; '7 !•• • - • • 1 1 :11, grautmg - Cads,. iholic Peels sitting in the of -er Hi•i.,t .• :. •••• .. c mpact with the Cal I pillh this declaration p rfectly c- n , . e•- -. • .. .. , plc ni England gain 4 . l "ei!", . ..... .4 ..I**Wees, "kin -1 4tcw . ., t - ' 1 . 2 .1.tt 1 1- o••77'e .!•,•:. Jr i t vi,' The settlement 'ortinilit be requirai from members rf Parilar. , ....• 4 .1, ce,tors io be iss pen, far , as it is borrowed from"! Sfriolat'.'',clan: . - i n in • ...dot to be given aw a y the "Act of 11st Sessinsi fur reprinbrig ani•-iiiii"-in i . J 'VIA settlement was t) Corporation Act, 1 'see no "tactics* Or it), but th•ru g h : " ihe CatbolicAssc it is .apilicahle to that - case, it doeS "n•u appear to • •of more than terapor me that it can..be .required with per ect consistency going to bre.k itt ii i and propriety •fom "a Member of Parliament. Th at. of 1688. f..r die pu s and alui the Drairitinu to be taken by . Privy C onn . ' %Ince with Vie Catholl calms, gequi•es", it *seems to me, further con ideiat 0n.... recommended to take in the negative part, I mean. Possibly, on fusilier : se. • Irelissid'into consider (faction, I may alter My' opinion; but, on heating them ' it Minted without s, read last night, 1 thought of th,ns as.l have now stated. - be •;fforded f , r its full '1 trust they will have the best at ention in the Com. pressing' of the opitsio mittee. Passing over the rest of this measure, I co me Impg:ottani than any tl to the xecond Bill, in which it was proposed to mole •rsiie.,t since the: iccessii with the glen measure of relief one of those expedients wh cli;in 1825, were offered at that time if urgoci d ii.. n , bad just sat down, 1 as one of the securities. I allude .t-i the disfranchise- *void sot e i tahi l ,h ment of the forty shilling freeholders. I was then op. waited with ai.ciery ti posed to anymeasurt of this dews iption t and I can well the measure- he had conceive that, if•it lifffellOt united With the larger mei. shame the measure of sure, es it is a fir more sweeping measure of di franchise.. twill, tranquillise ' ment than that of 1825, It would be'a master of setionn .anxiety, but had ex) objection. I will not disguise my opinion, that tor my. self it would be in that case a matter of all btt invin.: said the Catholi t e o s p h a a r d tt ' cible reluctance. Bien if it had not been altered, my opinion of the lesser measure of 1825 (as I was one'of those who opposed it) might well and in petfect eons sistency have been charged on me as a reason for not forming a favourable opinion of this measure; but I . .glvibCattysunheorlatanhn:fhoydbisecrsysiethlniaciafieuNteriri—ttilihy;yfeebitiuiti4l a s d Church, i we re e.ihte 4security would look to the whole of these measures-;-(Cheers). If the question is put to me, why do you vote for the dii. traachitement of the forty shilling freeholders? I say,• If question is put to me separately, singly, or apart, it ought to be weighed on its ovin grounds, . , ~:th:eldepelamioeserapileyw.fdeivwtiheoeri,dagi and on its own grounds it should be answered; and heart in.pronsatini and then my answer is, Na, But that is not the goes. tion in the present ease. Hive it is pot in connection. - . dissensions by which th' with a far more difficult and complex question; and if • sided, would make m it is so-put to me, and lam practically respired to vote ce , sity of his nature, al upon the subject, I * then ask, shall I take on opt* logs of humanity. He i the responsibility—shall I take on myself—data 1 lake • bet In Oxford . (Bir R. on myself, even the smallest share of t'le •tremendoes . present state of the Chl responsibility of saying to Ireland, " Yourlast chance to religious feeling? of peace, of tranquillity; and r f safety, is gone ; fur ligion, which was eh; these two measures ate inseparably connected together, heart, and was prelim and I will vote against one of them ?"—(Cheets). The Clergy de-cende, From that responsibility, even from my small share of ) stbuld preach peace, it, I freely confess Ido shrink.—(Great cheering). I flamed people, and prk I am not ashamed 40 confess it, for kis a responsibility means by which they t which m ght well appal the stoutest heart, and shalt- preserve tranquility in) •• • the soundest judgment. Ido therefore, As:the priii,as. lend, if he had any pair the all but most extravagant price, of this inestimable , . countrymen rather tf - good, consent to give it; not only is it inestimable tiri' . tell the Honourable- (. the blessings it will produce, but it has always beets if that of Ireland dtodenf the highest expediency and strictest justice, 'and halt w . griant a tin theo w ti,b e : • . . - - - - • -r . • W. Arra s , _ now become of overwhelming necessity. That ptical, - if I , ishmers, Ilik i s . for one. say lam willing to pay . — The Honturable and : .*`..,. dancy safiftb• had so Learned Gentleman sat down amidst the general chess. I (Hear). They say the ing of the House. be broken in upon,• Mr. FYNES CLINTON said he thought it was a bad _ben practically j question which should be answered by the step f r• • ..-Ti ascendancy whi porters of the present measure, whether k wet likely ' ' ~.„gbiset of one that is dept to put an end to the distractions in Ireland, or only to in their imaginations. entail on as other struggles more ruinous than those • mks to give power 'to from which we escape ? The measure was brought Oh. , Mould tell then) chit poi ward by Minister's not as an act of grace. but loscad ow • Catholics of Ireland pia, them by necessity. He did not accuse them of acting ' though not non to b e RI under fear in any disgraceful sense of the word; both. sion had been made to' coast say the measure was forced' on them by the Ca. 'yeshtl.made it, were we to *die Association ; and they resort to it with their eyes hellion, or enlist it in y( open to all the evils they always thought and still think bate to the security and mast ensue from it to the Established Church—(Hear). Empire? Every parr He could not conceive how any measure could con. . Human who spoke last , Mance under less hippy auspices, as it was forced from , land, but most when he a teluctant Government.. Did it augur well to see his price of putting down . A Majesty's Government consenting to purchase a respite would tell him th a t by yielding to claims they bad long re s isted ?—(Heat) , never appear, and yet The effect of.the measure would be to give power to ' the land. The courts the Catholics to struggle for ulterior objects. He could . of agitation. A father) n , 4 expect shat the present concessions, unlimited as seduction of his daughr and agitates the w h o l e c• they were. would satisfy their desires. Would they • satisfy the Catholic ptiesshood ? Was it in human of bail or refuses to - nature that after having excited all their power to pro. ..s he may be wrong ;in MI cure concessions from the people, and gained so muds ' The chapel must be from them, they should have no wishes Mr themselves, . sill pint with one : and would quietly c•insent to leave the revenues of the with the other •to .the church in the hands of the Protestant clergy ? - Were - : . isibenegm:ecfnyleivp.oiraoren.vihiado,/thy she Sod they less likely, when those concessions .were granted, to exert their beamed. us power for thewelees ?-.- These could be no security but in their own moderation : • law-..(Hear, hear). Br , this measure provided none. The Right Hon. Member for , into. that House, plant Inverness (Mr. C. Giant) had congratulated the .House - haunt lrish beano, es, I ca 'that the measure was brought forward without any .. flail, of abicb they artificial securities. He had that Right Hooeurable itelluti°a of Gentlema opinion. and the Learned Gentleman's opi- legislate in all 68 le f rhoej Mon (Mr; Brougham) in support . - of his own, that this who pror Gentlemanreligious people Measure contains no securities, though securities Wills t Devil read Saipture—(Hi Established Church had been recommended by his th• • no cause to compl a i n of r jest,. The office of Lord Lieutenant i f Irela n d, and 1 . measure was ever more 61 Lord Chancellor, were not tn.be filled by Cetbalici, complaint showed them because they had the disposal of church patronage; bat ihe signs of the times. Tin the First Lord of the Treasury, who recommended the in Mrs. Thrale's ' , Ducal appoiotinent of Bishops and other. Church dignitaries, et the approach of death, might be a Catholic. The Right Hont.wable Gentleman i sod Mine, and let". whit (Mr. Peel) had certainly stated that if a C at h o li c held They appeared to be like an (Ace with Church patronage that he should tot ex. . who would net be persoadi excise that patronage; but did he mea n th a t he shoed dead. He thought the N , ant appoint ? or did be al s o m ean th at b e ;bald Government, and th e R I not recommend an appointment in t he Ch urc h? l'he achieved the noblest of vi ce themselves to the g ra ti tu d e exceptions in the Bill were-quite sufficient as a badge The Earl of TASHI,' Ind mask, to tell the Catholics that they were inferior *sole to Protestants and nottrust worthy, but quite insufficiest speech of tne Ri4 for effectual security.-- Insignificant as they Were ad. h ' sighs, not L ,_., " _,.. ichMde l ne d . le silted to be, it wet evident that danger from coon" In.aisc.th'irstitiHyt7:}rossulitahe.aeleseci_rnpit:grtioretvienteteitastc7tecyarithataecid Ea was apprehended byMtnisters. otherwise, why set to *the Calholits, we know you iie entirely wonky:et iholic:- trust? He was con6ensed in this view of the subject by the Right Hon Secietary himself, who stated Rat fir . risos4lasted the manly firm phaticaily, that though he bad altered his coarse be bad not changed his opiiloas. The Right Hoo.Gentlems" said, in effect," let tbe danger come—let eggnog thud Gentleman h a d a.vo be. though forming iel eoncessi , n. and then we shall come to the contest with Me.Cannina, osed to 0 Mar PuiSl. W 0441. additional strength." It did n o t appe ar t o hint to maintain P" csief m y sae lentim wise, when a contest w a s impendi ng , to tru s t power i Reuse of our P rotestant C o is the bands of those with whom we should haute oaf -chow, - k ssesaid b e . 4,,, contend. He did not 'regard the Revolution of 10 1 ~. wh om , i i• giffito i ' as fOrming the British Constitution, but as perinea.* c• elr •Pf. Art 414 e- co d : 6 ii i . i A mid crowning it. The Bill of Rights did not esclolr e .1 . 1 1 1..,... tb , • C Crest'', nes Catholics limn Parliament; but, looking at the whale itsionilli elicited toa and, t rircoawitances, be thought it was meant, that Puha' I nee.., wh hi row r " , list illeet ihnold be eiclusively Protestant. Tne Bill es' .a. ;-- -- • . , 'i . e.,' scs.4agsp g old that tel el . IF .., ii , l .81 issen toeliesi-oss t: 'Hided Catholic• frons the Throoe nod they were sa. . .used from Parlysoient Wine. The Bill did oatmeal . lecolection 44 or goi.ere u. tir ' Put a Protestant on the Tlatone and surround blob? . einennow le h i ch arictettie ,toolic councill o r s . The Ri g h t H on . Go dea u satiGt j aWairi alup Mod, a senstied•that the mea s u re -did b ree t in on the bettle 4 'in a e deleh , e o f ' a • P sote ; ,ant of 1638. but his reason was that the p wil t ' the Ito , it , , g , w h ic h ha , :ce :icy was such that they must at all bemuse k . -lave a little pre flame - A 13.11 to supp •• (1:11, gratitmg Canal. C mpact with the CA .hErnegtum ncl ie ga e in n ce,tors to be st, per • 'not to be given away settlement was t •the CatKolicAssociati • of mote than terapor going to bre.k in up. of 1638. for the pu • tiece with vie Cathol tecommetided to tak • Irelisdeinto consider • tiodueed without su • be 4 fforded fn- its fui pre,sinii of the 001110 Impg:ottani than any t Ime.,t since the: iccessi 'Mt. NORTH said, had just sat down, *void t.nt eitahlid; waited with at.ziety the wahine- he had shame the measure of • tually tranquillise I .ensiety, but had ex. mint, for the Hon. e lame and impotent c. said the Cstholies had save no security; but • with any security ? H Church by all the fedi bits of his life—by ti and if we were to part Chalks he would as Bb.t. eras -it a security t and misery of the peo. the people divided, a and heart in.promotin , • • Ate measure would g . dissensions by which th • sided, would auks m ce-sity of his nature, logs of honianity. He • btr far OxfordOir It. present state of the Ch to religious feeling? ligion, which was eh• heart, and was prepare The Clergy de-cende • ) preach peace, t. flamed people, and pm means by which they preserve tranquillity in land, if he had any pas . countrymen lather th ' tell the Horinurable G that of Ireland etrefd- pOontry optic gtthe; • ,1• • • „ of Fishiest!, but in th danc y wiAtts• h.td so . (Hear). They say the . be broken in upon,• had Si r en practictly a • --The ascendancy whic r • 44.10144 t of one that is depa in their imaginations. . mils to Ore "power 'to would tell them that po • • Catholics of I re l an d p o i • though not now to be g • Ilion had been made to b • 7wheanade it. were we to ; - bellion, or enlist it in yo bate to the security and . empire? Every part . tleman who spoke last is . , . land, but most when he price of putting down t t I would tell him th a t • t h e never appear, and yet . • the land. The courts . of agitation. A. father seduction of his daught and agitates the whole c of bail or refuses to acce he may be wrong ; in sit , The chapel must be o will paint with one ban r with the other •to •the it • ing—(fle ar , h ear ). T he tenacity provided by the • . tbebenevolence of the So • law-.(Hear, hear). Br r Into- that House, plant • . Infant Irish branctes, a fruit. of which they Revolution of 1688 prow legislate in all cases for • religious people who thou Devil read Saipture—(H no cause to complain of b I measure was ever more complaint showed themes ills signs of the times. Th In Mrs. Thrale's" Three et the approach of death. and Nine, and lame. whi They appeared to be like I 1 who would se be pursued Iliad. He thought the N. Government, and the R *thieved the noblest of vict themselves to the gratitude The Earl of MEM itholv aped) Of too • • sight. which oceopied t.