Star. — London, England, 1812-12-11 00:00:00

. but paiticularly at the battle or Royal, Highness the Pence Regent name and on behalf of his Majesty, 1 HOUSE OF LORDS, DECEMBER to. to order that those Officers now sery The Insolvent Debtors' Amendment Bill was, On the motion rary rank in the several regiments of LORD ELLENBOROUGH, read a second time, and corn have permanent rank in the British mitred for to-morrow dates of their respective CoMMissiol The oaths were administered to the Earl of Londonderry, and she Bishop cf Lichfield and Coventry. ship thought that this order coup_ APPEALS. . only in one way, that which the.words plainly im- Lnrd REDESDALE mentioned, that it would be ported, and so comprehending it, it appeared to be of great importance to the public service to have a an attempt (ineffectual it must be, because it was speedy decision on an Appeal vow before the Huuse, contrary to a positive enactment) to introduce Fo. relative to encroachments itt Portsmouth harbour, reign German Officers, permanently, or as long as and suggested the glpfiliCACg Di bearing it on an they should live, into the British army ; the German early day atter the recess. • .. Legion having been enrolled as a temporary corps. The LORD CHANCELLOR. said, be had no —The ingenuityof the other side of the House had, objection ro take this Appeal out of its course, pro- however, he believed, discovered another interpreta. sided it valid be done without injUstlce to the other tinn, and he should sit down in the hope that the suitors be.ore the House. If the Appeal now al- Noble Lord (Palmerstone) would state whether he laded to could be heard in the morning, so that it did or did not concur in the explanation just offered? taigfit not interfere with the regular course of pro- Lord PALMERSTONE begged that Lord Folk meeting in regard to. other Appeals, he should be stone would repeat his construction of the words of willing to agree to such an arrangement. It would i the Order. • be telt to be an indispensißle act of justice to the other Lord FOLKSTONE complied, repeating what suitors to make some such an arrangement, when be he had before said, and adding, that by the order in stated, that of the 270 Appeals and Writs of Error question he understood that the Officers of the Ger. now on the Table, the last of these, according to the man Legion were to be allowed half pay. mode of hearing hitherto acted upon, could not be Lord PALMERSTONE replied, that it was not decided for eleven years fri m this time. his intention, nor could it be the effect of the order, Lord REDESDALE had no objection to agree to give the Officers of the German Legion privileges to this arrangement. It was only the importance of or advantages inconsistent with the Act, under the the case to the public service that induced him to authority of which the German Legion was formed. propose to take it out of its course. His Lordship , Lord FOLKESTONE continued. If such were went into the consideration of the Bill. recently passed the fact, the order was a nullity, and amounted to by the House, and sent down to the Commons, for nothing—(Hear,liear.)-Lbut the explanation just at the appointment of a Vice• Chancellor, observing, ' tempted was directly at variance wish the words of that either that measure, or the House, must aban- the instrument, and those words were equally theon• don its appellate jurisslktion. Which was the more . sistent with the Act of Settlement, and with the sta. constitutional course, it needed no argument to point , tute embodying the German Legion. In the extra. out. The greaest grievances and hardships to par- ; ordinary vocabulary of the War Office, the term tem. ties arose from the delay in hearing Appeals in that porary might not mean during a limited period, or douse, and the only effectual remedy he conceived the term permanent, mean during an unlimited pe. to be, to give assistance to the Lord Chancellor in skid, but until the War Office could transform the, the Court of Chancery, in order to enable that Noble I English language, as they had transformed the Eng. and Learned Lord to sit in the House of Lords, at i lish army, the true sense would be perfectly obvious times when at present he was required to sit in the! to every man who had sense to comprehend any Court of Chancery. It was also of importance that I thing. (Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord would an. some measure should be adopted to compel the at-' swer, iperhaps, with equal intelligibility, that this tendance of Peers, during the mornings for three or was meant as a reward for meritorious service, but four days in the week, in order to the hearing and de. what boon was it to tell a man that something should Biding upon Appeals with a due regard to the funs- be bestowed upontim, which; from a positive enact tions of the House, and the interest of Suitors. His ment, Gould never be realized ? The officers of the Lordship moved that the Appeal in question should , German Legion were all serving with temporary be taken into consideration on the first day after the' rank, and none other could be given to them. In for.. tecoss, which would probably be early in February. Imer times, British subjects had been allowed tempo. Lord Viscount MELVILLE urged the great tm- i rary rank, without ascending the regular steps of portance of deciding upbn this Appeal as speedily , promotion, by which means they were put over the* as possible, as it involved in a great degree the vais. heads of older officers. Of this fact, Sir Thelfellp tence of Portsmouth Harbour. I Graham was a memorable instance, but it was now, The LORD CHANCELLOR was perfectly abolished in every corps but in the German Legion. aware of the importance of the case to the public ser. lln 1804, they were embodied ; they came over in vice, and was anxious that some arrangement might , numbers from the Continent, and this man was ap be adopted with a view to its speedy decision. He pointed Colonel, and another Lieutenant Colonel, proposed, therefore, that the hearing should com. with temporary rank, but they are now advancing Thence on the first day after next Term, at ten o'clock and shouldering out our own General O ffi cers, and • in the morning, and that the Lords should be sum- I taking the command of our own armies —(hear, hear, moned during each day of its progress. As to him. from Minietere)- 7 -ene of them actually had the con self, whether in or out of office, he would certainly ; troul of a district. On what authority were these in. attend. With regard to the Bill (for the appoint- uovations attempted L Was it that at the War Of. rnent of a Vice-Chancellor), he had cautiously ab.; lice, not being able to comprehend their own Order, stained from saying any thing upon it, being satis- i they were actually incompetent to understand the fled, that although it must be admitted that the Bill !obvious wording of an Act of Parliament? 4)id they bad reference only to a Chancellor, and nut to the make any nice distinction between what they might Chancellor, still that what fell from him, upon the : call "temporarily permanent," and " permanently subject, would be received with a certain degree of temporary ?" If the order meant any thing, it was prejudice. He would, however, say this much, that either a proof of the absurdity of the persons in the he would not have suffered the measure to have gone War Department, or a proof that they meant to de on to its ultimate stage, had he not been thoroughly lude end entrap the officers of the German Legion convinced of its absolute necessity, for the assistance (equally ignorant with themselves of the English lan of suitors in that House. I guage) by pretending to reward their* va l our, but The Appeal in question was ordered to be taken ! giving them in reality nothing but empty words. He into considt ration en the first day after the recess, ' hoped that the Noble Lord, or some of his friends, if with the understanding, that the hearing should cone they understood enough English, would at . I least at mence on the first day after the Term, as proposed tempt an explanation of a circumstance which had ex by the Lord Chancellor.—Adjourned. cited great uneasiness and disturbance in our forces, the officers of which could not, with patience, endure • HOUSE OF COMMONS. to see their hard earned honours disparaged, while Mr. PARKER brought up t i. A' Report of the Committee al' German Barons or Counts were placed over their pointed to inquire into the Debts of the Nabob of the Carnattc. heads. After what bad fallen from the other side, The Sheriffs of the City of London presented at the Bar, a I Petition for a Bill to enlarge Smithfield Market. the proposition which his Lordship intended originally A Petition was presented from the unsuccessful Candidate to have made on this subject, must be altered ; but for the Borough of Tregony, .complaining of an undue return.: as a foundation for it, he would in the first instance It was ordered that it be taken into consideration on the 29d of [move, that an humble address be presented to the February. Prince Regent, praying him t o lay befo r e th e House On the motion of Mr. RosiNSON, leave was given to bring ! In a Bill to indemnity those persona who had advised and acted I copies of ill orders issued from the War O ffi ce re arm an Order in Counc 1, allowing importations, under certain ! az na tingthe rank of officers serving in the King's restrictions, into the West Indies, contrary to the Act passed in ' n Lesion. the Session of 18011. Lord PAL.MERSTONE lamented that the Noble The Sugar Brewery Bill, and the Starch Prohibition Bill, way ' severalty read a third time, and passed. Lord who had just sat down, did not allow him to Mr. Les UINGTON brought up the Reports of the Committisa answer his speech, before he delivered it (4 laugh ) — .f Supply and Ways and Means. The Resolutions were am* because it might have saved the House considerable to, and Bills ordered. trouble. The difference was merely as to the inter. THE KING'S GERMAN LEGION. pretation of words which had become technical, as Lord FOLKSTONE rose r in pursuance of notice, applied to the military service. Permanent rank was to call the attention. of Parliament, as ea r ly a s p os .' that which was 'possessed by every officer in the re. sible, to a subject of undoubted magnitude. He 1 gulartritish army, and temporary rank was such as should not have delayed even thus long, had be not I was given to persons who had raised bodies of men been requested by a Noble Lord, who b, hoped fin the public service, who were provided with high would not take advantage of the absence of some commissions, without advancing through the pre supporters of the motion, an absence occasioned by , vious stages. Temporary rank, thus conferred, ap. its previous postponement. During the last Session I plied only to the particular corps, and did not of the late Parliament, he (Lord Folkstone) had ad.: 'entitle the individual either to Brevet rank, or to *cud more than once to the infraction of the law of half pay. In truth, nothing more permanent had the country, by the introductio'n of Foreign Officers ; been conferred on the officers of the German Le into the British Corps, and a return upon the subject ' gion, than what the law allowed ;—and, at the being universally called for, it was laid upon the ; time the order was framed, the Act of Parliament T.eate. Upon examination, however, it was found embodying them, was kept in view. It was by very de:ective, inasmuch as it only stated the num- i no means correct to say, that all the officers in our her of For: ign Officers employed in that small per. j fo reign corps had only temporary rank. Such as lion of the native British force then within the three were appointed in the commencement were certainly Kingdoms, omitting all these upon foreign service.' in that predicament ; but as vacancies occurred they Oae object, therefore, was to remedy this error, by were filled up by persons upon whom permanenel auggesting,that a return be made of all the Foreign rank was conferred, and who' were placed in Officers at present employed in the British Army every respect on a footing with their brother officers. properly so called. Another motion would be for a Noble Lord had maintained, that the Order wan return of the number of Foreigners who have re- inconsistent with the act, which required the King to ceived Staff appointments, and a third for a return grant commissions, and letters of service; but it did of the number of Officers of the 60th Regiment of not provide that they should be different from those Infantry appointed to the Staff, who by law were ; in other cases bestowed, excepting that they were un. expressly excluded from that thuation. His main f doubtedly to terminate at the disbanding of thecorps design, however, was to draw the notice of the House ; a t t h e t i me li m i te d an d t h at the officers "s essing to an order respecting the King's Germa n L eg i on , I them were not to h ave the benefit of half-pay. Then inserted in the Gazette of the 18th of August last. lit would be asked, what benefit did the officer eer It was as follows :—" In consideration of the King'st from this omen ginv.).—Ho received German Legion having so frequently distinguished advantage, ea a Noblme who had gallantly served his tetmseives against the enemy, during the campaign, gouray s of Di 3 ova inbon,chat when his convuision PARLIAMIIVT4Rr J rELLIGENCE. derive I , his services should no longer be re should be printed in the Army Lists And being printed in the Army List§ bear the rank to which his merits so entitled him. Lord Palmerston, de lly, that the instrument in the, Ga , ith the officers of British regiments * the scale of promotion in the Ger man Legion had always been the same, not allowing that young officers entitled to brevet rank should pass those of older standing, who had not the same ad vantage. The Noble Lord opposite might, perhaps, ask, for what purpose the order was required ? It was-to bestow a well-merited compliment on a body of men who had always been distinguished for gall• antry and discipline : as far as related to the rank they were to bear (though not to the emolument they were to receive), it converted temporary into perma nent service. What they acquired was honour, the end and aim of a soldier ; that for which be fights and dies. To the German Legion such a reward was not, and could not be deemed a trifle ; it was la truth the most gratifying to their f.selings and well come to their ambition. Those who were acquainted from previous unhappy experience with the send=' meats of the Noble Lord (Folk:tow) on the subject of the employment of foreigners for our own and the defence of our allies, would be aware that to carry this motion was not so much his object, as at the commencement of a new Parliament to make a sort of declaration that his opinions were unaltered, and that he intended to continue the same road he bad pursued dnring the last Parliament. If he thought that their employment was improper, all Lord Pal merstoae wished was, that all those ho entertained a different sentiment should be admitted to have as much love for, and as correct views of the Constitu tion as their opponents. Looking at the present state of the world, and viewing the countless hosts that were arrayed against Great Britain, single handed, it seemed to Lord Palmerstone the height of absur dity to make such an objection. Because our hav ing swept the seas of our enemies, and because our small but gallant armies had hitherto stood undaunt ed and unbroken before the overwhelming forces of France and all her dependanti States, was it to be ur ged that we were, unaided and unsupported, capa ble for ever of sustaining so unequal a contest ? That our foreign corps, and particularly the German Le gion, merited all the'rewards that could be bestowed upon them, no man, let him belong to what party he might, would deny.—(H ear, hear.)—To the return first noticed by the Noble Lord of the foreign officers employed in our whole military force, Lord Palmer stone had no objection : but the document last re quired, he should resist with his utmost power, and, he trusted, that the House in giving its negative. to. the motion would, by implication at least, give its approbation to the employment of foreigners in our armies, and its sanction to the general system on which the war had been conducted. Mr. PONSONBY protested against the wish ex pressed by the Noble Lord, that the House should upon this or any other occasion come to a decision respecting the merits of any question not immediately connected with the motion before it—that it should determine as to the policy of employing German troops upon arguments delivered in the course of the last Parliament, and which arguments perhaps not twenty Members then present bad ever heard. With e explanation of the NoLtle Lord, relative to the order under consideration, the Right Hon. Gentle man declared himself perfectly satisfied, because he now saw nothing illegal or unconstitutional in its character, although before that explanation he cm. tainly understood the order as the Noble mover-un derstood it, and, as he believed, it was understood by every body else. This order was professedly meant to reward that deserving body of men the German Legion, by conferring upon its Officers per.. manent rank in the British Army ; but it appeared that in the vocabulary of the War Office, the word permanent implied something contradictory to itself; that it did not imply constant or perpetual, but some thing temporary or limited. Now he would appeal to any man, whether it was at all probable, that such' a peculiar meaning was likely to be so generally un derstood ? He would put it to the Noble Lord him self, whether, if it were officially announced to him that he was permanentl y . to hold his, present situation , at the War and that it was afterwards inti mated that he was to be deprived of it at the termi nation of the war, or one year afterwards, which it appeared was to conclude this permanent grant to the German Officers, the. Noble Lord would not feel some degree of astonishment; nay, whether he would not conceive that it had been originally intended to delude him ? But if the grant made to the German : Officers were really regarded by that body as a boon, as a reward for services, he must say that they were very easily gratified, and that the Governm ent o f England had discovered a more cheap and easy way of rewarding military officers than had yet been hit upon by any other country in Europe. Perhaps the word permanent, mentioned in the order, was not, correctly speaking, applicable to any part of the British Army, for thanks to our Constitution, there' was no such thing as a permanent army in the coun. try—(Hear, hear, from the Ministerial henelserly—the whole being subject to the annual consideration . of Parliament, without whose consent it could not con tinue to exist. Therefore, when. he read the word 'permanent applied to the Officers of the German Le- , ,pion, he confessed that he felt considerable astonish- ! assent, conceiving it to be the result of some peculiar arrangement with that body, which was novel to the - Constitution, and contrary to the Act originally or ganizing that corps. But he was quite satisfied with is ex of the Noble Lord ; and here be it to be understood, that as to any prejudices *Med by the Noble Lord to prevail among any body' of men, against the character of the German Legion, 46.1.1111450 t to be included in that body,—(Hear, ear, Ministerial and Oppothisa &whet). For he had toold from various Officers who had served with the Germans, that their conduct had been eminently dis tinguished by judgment and valour. He therefore could not adopt any vulgar prejudices against these gallant men, merely because they were foreigners.— At the same time he must say, that die employment of foreigners looked 5r Calamattea, his: should tease, and ;ent, actin in the ' qpiqulk is name 5 1 y, has been pleased ; =Haan ; ar,)—al erving with tempo- i lie wool still beat of that corps, shall ; unquestionably en sh army, from the ;fled most pointvdl ions."—His Lord.; r.ette interfered wit luld be understood, and insisted that of foreigners in our stilly shoisid always be ioultd to with a certain degree of jealousy. - Indeed in- all countries that are free, and wished to remain so, the employment of forgivers, particularly in the army. might be at!ded jealousy. But in this in- enlaces Bits of the- Gamin Lesko.. • this ~. and the explanation which the Hotta had of the order referred to in the motion, he didreee6t4notie; consequence ymaottton.Wa:thhoadugultttt o eri f ten t d h eaeto e ph_ t ; thoseany g r ound wH o h u .o nd fa ft v i o r u j ted ealou th s e y. MILDMAY, in eainntieorsnaulpofptiocu,hestite_rler'shost,oe any undue prejudi ces a ga i pst t h e German Le g ion, lipic which th e Secretary to guard himsel i f mtt a eo ga dtio i b n ny st u t hp h oi e sn i ion w N of ob b le in F g ri c e o n m d' m s the lrn o pteu g t to the policy of employing foreign troops. Lord MILTON strongly deprecited the empleik, ment of foreign officers in the manner in which bi le . derstood they had in some instances been, - • in the command of English Districts ; and he herided, that by the order under consideretion, "l fee a had been explained by the Secretary at War, tee s i officers might be so employed. Of this he highly disapproved, for while he felt it necessary to p a pa himself against the imputation of vulgar prejudicel he must protest against the appointment of any is, reigner whatever to such commands as he had ague ed to; and he could make no such exception i n a of % wi tt Hanoveriana, as some persons a nte d •• . for these men were not, never had been the of the Ring of England, connected with the k lia t i a lff d:. , our Government. Lord PALMERSTONE stated, that ' to the terms upon which the German Legei e i s : originally constituted, the respective rank rife . ficers, when serving with British (dicers, The Noble Lord' denied that an had ever commanded an English District . ... Lord MILTON mentioned the case of lle n u s , singen, in the Eastern District. Lord PALMERSTONE observed, that spas Lord Chatham's retirement from the comm 4 the District alluded to, another British Officer was immediately appointed to succeed him. General STEWART bore testimony to duepl. lantry of the German Legion, whose services iiihsd witnessed on various occasions in the Peninsula. le. deed, so highly did Lord Wellington think dui fidelity and valour of that body, that he did not he sitate to confide the direction of one of the most th luable corps of his army, namely, the light divies ee to a German Officer (General Alten.) Why 0444 after such a proof of well-merited confidence is red service, should it be deemed unsafe to commit as English District to the command of a German?_. %Why, while those meritorious officers were enuusted with the command of an army abroad in the mid* cif war, should they be thought unfit or unworthy take the command of our army at home. He felt believed, that upon the Continent there was but me ,feeling among the British army upon this subject, and .as to the general merits of the German Legion. Bet let those who saw them not in service, look at the Gazettes for an account of the conduct of these ile-, serving foreigners, and they would be found to have eminently signalised themselves upon all occasions. Stich was, indeed, the impression they made, thing the British army could by canvassed, which he vas „aware would be irregular, he had not the slightest • doubt that the grant of permanent rank to the 01. cers of that Legion would have been eniverally tar proved of, which grant he, among others, certainly understood to have been the purport of the ruder under consideration—(Hear, hear t from the (lm sition Benches !) According to as arra a present upon the Continent, say • Otmaa who goes into the Portuguese service is Aldveact4 W • step in rank ; but no such advance has OW here ob -1 jetted to by other British Officers. No, such is rise liberal feeling of British Officers, that they are never found to object to the advance of merit. These gal lant men were only found to murmur when young men, as was formerly the case, were promoted before , merit and experience, merely through undue influence and connection. British Officers then would never • object to the due advance of foreigners, particularly where their merit was so eminent as that of the Ger man Legion, and who could doubt that merit? He himself had the honour of commanding a Gomm corps, namely, the First Hussars, under the bow 'diate command of Colonel Aranshield, and a mom gallant or more effective body of men he hadnevernut ,with. But . the conduct of the German corps, under the direction of Colonel Bock at Salamanca, was Op , ,subject of universal praiie. The Hon. Office=e - •.• cluded with asking pardon of the House for sing upon its attention ; but he felt it due to truth? and justice to bear his testimony' to the conduct ?f a, too often misrepresented, al th ough We lly pentorsoni corps. . - • •es .. . Lord MILTON, in reply to a "quistiOn from 14.'4 gallant Officer, which question seemed peculiarly id. .1 dressed to him, thought it necessasy to state that hie i 'reason for deprecating the grant of a military come 'mend to any foreigners at home, although such s reigners as the gallant Officer mentioned. were is: 'vested with the high command abroad, *yeas sivii 'this—that in the one case the command was ia ?IP 1 tugal, while in the other it was in England, where. according to the constitutional precept and t policy, foreigners were excluded from rimy o:4z thority. Mr. CANNING professed to understandlko Vir under discussion precisely as it was underSteu si = Noble Mover,and as lie fully believed it was . by mesepeop)e. Bpt it (ctmed that he andillegkwug• mistaken,in their conception of this ordain fort 84 :: cording to the Noble Secretary's expeanstiona *d not mean what the words imported. To 0 0066 ' of the German Legion he was as ready to bear mi mony as any man, and to that gallant corps he %mak, most cheerfnllyallow any reward thatc°uld be ow* tently granted. He therefore should never have est Meted to the act of rewarding the German Offnatt the manner bad not been exceptionable. To 4: manner he certainly felt the most serious CandO r tional objections—but these objections were • and he was glad to hear the explanation whisk , been just laid lefore the Douse. U• .' - • . s . the utmost,deference was due to the ' ' of the gallant Officer who had latmobss t illittsars). His opinion as to defame* di lileinr,"; Legion could not be dispateclteit it was as 1142 recollected, that while the gallant Officer viewed it • merits of the question respecting the .ernploymille°' foreigners ' with P military ey*s 001 foreigners in our army with ii military ear .rigne that House to look to that important qj 'Aka with a constitutional eye. .Irs no circussistingr , whate►er should that House forget, witatlaP . ,. peared to him to ha►e been forgatesi by the Secretaty atr Wat—thatlecasfity taTteiiir Br ca •P to A