Star. — London, England, 1812-02-13 00:00:00

neath that of the - offices which he had before men tioned, as having I een held , by navy officers. The promotion also went on so slow in the marines, that it was fourteen years before a subaltern arrived to the rank of Captain, and thirty years before he came to be a field officer. It must be a mortifying thing to marine of to see Admi ra l s an d Generals who en tered the service long atter them. If their situation was compared with that of the navy, it was much in ferior, as they could never rise so high as naval officers. It was the same If compared with the line and the ar tillery; and upon garrison duty, an old mai ine officer I might see himself commanded by a junior officer 'of militia. They never were placed upon the Staff : neither bad the Serjeant of Marines the same al lowance at Greenwich, that the Serjeant of the line had at Chelsea. As to the privates in the army, they were allowed, in computing their pensions, three years service for every two years spent in the East or West Indies. 'I his was not the case with the Marines.— His great object was, that a corps equal in merit to any other should be equally treated, both as to rank and emolument. - He concluded by moving for the copy of a memorial presented to the Admiralty in 1810, by the Field Officers of the Marines, as well as the copy of a letter from Colonel Trench, to the First Lord of the Admiralty upon this subject. Mr. YORKE agreed with the Honourable Gentle man in every thing he said in praise of the Marine I Corps, but he could n9t see the necessity for agreeing to this motion. The Marines were part of the navy, and after they had passed the post of Captain, they were in a sort of sinecure retirement. As to their ' not being admitted to garrison places on shore, it was an old regulation, and one that oughtsnot in a hurry to be departed from. Captains in the line rise by purchase, this they could not do in the Marines, which night account for the disparity of promotion. That the principal commands in the Marine Service were conferred on naval officers, he conceived, was easily accounted for, from the circumstance that their actual service was usually, if not always, at sea, at which times they were commanded by naval officers. The Honourable Gentleman was probably not aware that the.question as to the allowance to Marine Officers had been under the consideration of the Admiralty, in the year 1809, when a considerable addition was made to their - emoluments and advantages. He . was convinced, therefore, that the officers of the • Marine Corps in general were well satisfied with their situation. The first Officers of the Marines had more pay than a Major-General on the Staff, and so in proportion. The Right Honourable Gen tleman therefore thought that he had a right to complain, that the Honourable Gentleman had, with so little ground on which to stand, come to a com parison and chaffering on such trifling things as .ss. here or there. On shore, he contended, that the Ma rines, in proportion to their numbers, were better supplied with officers than the artillery or any other corps. They had a Colonel, two Lieutenaht-Colonels, and four Majors, for each division of 1000 men.— The services of the artillery, he contended, were more important, and attended with more risk : but even on a comparison with them it would be found that . there was here very little difference in point of time as to the period of service required for rising in rank • by the officers in each. As to allowances ost beard of ship, prite•money, &c. he conceived, they would be found - to be fully adequate. As to Greenwich • Hospital, the officers in this corps had exactly the same advantage as was possessed by officers in the navy, except as to the holding of offices in the Go vernment of the House itself. It had been said, that the corps in question was not entitled to the Alvan , taqes granted in the year 1806,• to the army serving in the East and West Indies. It was to be-observed, however, that they were not to be considered as sol diers serving on shore ; at sea their service was com paratively healthy. The Right Hon. Gentleman de clared, that he had entered into this question with a zealous desire to afford relief wherever he should find it to be wanted ; but finding that a full inquiry had been made into it three years ago, when the subject underwent the fullest investigation, and considerable ' additional allowances had been made, he did not find that he was now bound to take up the question. He never recollected of any case being brought be fore the House so little entiled to consideration. Sir EDWARD BULLER declared, that he had never heard k insinuated that the Marine Corps had i any peculiar ground of complaint. Mr. GRENFELL said, that might ,be so ;—but still his Honourable Friend, as an iniiividual, might b convinced they had ground of complaint ; if that were so, he hoped he would persevere in his motion, and would not suffer the door to be shut on the pre sent discussion. Mr. ROBINSON declared, that as to any idea which the Honourable Member might entertain as to prejudices existing in the Admiralty Board, either against the Honourable Gentleman, or any measure recommended by him—such an idea was wholly un founded. - - Mr. HUTCHINSON replied, declaring that he ! had felt himself impelled by an imperious duty to call the attention of the Admirsity to the degraaed i Militar y state OF the Marine Corps, . - and to the super- i cession in rank of the Officers of that Corps, by which they were not allowed to share in the g irrison duty, which, he conceived, was a great slur on the corps. It was no answer to tell him that the Officers in this corps did not purchase their commissions. The Artil lery Officers di i not purchase their commissions ; and in the army, many of the officers did not purchase their Fonunissions. The artillery service was as 17 to 31, in comparison wth that of the corps of marines ; and there were not 20 Captains in the whole army with ne irly the same length of service as the Marine Cap tains. The statementof the First Lord of the Admiralty which the H• use had just heard, would be received with surprixe, not to say with indignation ; and the Right Honourable Gentleman would shcrtly find that there were things connected with the Corps of Royal bilaiines which were at this moment well worthy of his most serious and anxious attention. He had called the attention of the House to a grave case. He knew that he was correct in saying that there were feelings in the corps of Marines whiclainow required to be at tended to. In submitting this question to the House, lie had only discharged an imperious public duty. Mr. YORKE explained ; after which the question was put on Mr. Hutchinson's fit st Motion, which was negatived without a division; and the second motion ,be agreed to withd, 4W. • TEANLPOATATION TO NEW SOrTit WALES. Sir S. ROMILLY rose, to move for the appoint. ment of a Committee to enquire into the effects of the system of transporting convicts to New South Wales; and in doing so, hp should only detain the House a very short time, as he understood that his motion was not likely to be opposed. He would beg leave to ob serve, however, tbat.as connected with the subject of transportation, two important objects of enquiry would naturally conic under the attention of the Com mittee ; one was, as to the effects which transportation produced on the convicts; and the other, as to the na ture of the punishment which was thus inflicted upon them, and their situation when removed to that co lony. At a period when the Legislature were almost every Session under the necessity of passing Acts of Parliament, denouncing the punishment of transpor tation on offenders, it became more th an ever necessary to enquire into its effects. He did not mean to throw any reflection on the mode of distributing justice, but he wished merely that the public should have some information by which it would be judged whether transportation was a punishment advantageous to society? The only information which the country had on the subject, was from a work of a Mr. Collins, and another of a Mr. Mann ; but this was not authentic. All the information that ever was laid before the House, with respect to New South Wales, was a correspondence between Governor Phillips and the Secretary of State in 179'2, although i this mode of punishment was tried at first as a mere experiment ; and differed in every sense from trans. ; 1 portation to the colonies of America, which was in,' use previously to 1778. He then moved, that a Com mittee be appointed to inquire into the manner of exe cuting sentences of transportation to New South Wales, and into the effects resulting therefrom. The Motion was put and carried, the Committee nominated, and three appointed to be a quorum. Sir SAMUEL ROMILLY gave notice, that be would move to-morrow for a revival of the Commit tee of last. Sesssion, for enquiring into the situation of parish apprentices.—Adjoerned. MILITARY ENQUIRY. EXTRACT FROM TILE SEVENTEENTH VEPORT. Our enquiries respecting the Accounts of the Mili rtary Corps in the pay of the Ordnance, have been directed to the situation of the Agents or Paymasters of these corps ; to the course observed in issuing money to them ; to the mode of distributing it, and accounting for its expenditure ; and to the nature as well as the actual state of the examination of these accounts. But we shall bring forward in this place, such particulars only of the information which we have obtained, as may serve to shew the general conduct of the Ordnance Department in this branch of their concerns, or which may lead to any observa tions on that conduct. We shall state these particu lars in each of the Agencies separately, premising, however, that the Agents of all the Ordnance Mili tary Corps, are in the appointment of the Master- General, and are removable at his pleasure. The most considerable of these agents are Messrs. Greenwood and Cox, for they have the agency of the Royal Regiment of Artillery, (including the Horse Brigade, Invalid Battalion, and Medical Staff of that regiment,) of the Foreign Artillery, and of the Ar tily.attached to the German Legion, of the Corps of Royal En , ineers, of the lite* Military Artificers, and of the Royal Military Surveyors and Drafts men. They give security to the amount of £lO,OOO as Agents of the Artillery, and of 41,000 as Agents lof the Corps of Engineers. They have two pence in the pound on the full pay of the non-commissioned officers and privates of the Artillery, according to the establishment of the regiment, and the same on the establishment of the Royal Military Artificers, whether these different corps are complete or not ; and two pence in the pound also on the pay of the Officers of all the corps of which they are Agents ; but the poundage on the pay of the Officers of these corps, above the rank of subaltern, is not charged to the public. They have the Luther allowances of £l5O per annum for paying the Half-pay and Pen sioners of the Artillery, of £lOO per annum for pay ing the incidents of that corps, and £lOO per annum for paying the incidents of the Royal Military Arti ficers. None of this pay, or of these allowances, is specially issued to the Agents, but the amount is charged by them in their several periodical ac counts. The money for the service 0 the Royal Regiment of Artillery, is obtained by the Agents in different ways, according to the stations of the companies be longing to the regiment. The subsistenCe for such as are stationed in Great Britain, Gibraltar, the Me diterranean and Madeira, and for such as are serving in Spain and Portugal, is issued to the Agents monthly, according to distributions made up by them from the returns of the stations received from the Adjutants of each battalion of the regiment, and which are delivered to die Board of Ordnance about the latter end of each year for the year ensuing. We find that the amount of this issue is not regulated by any returns of the effective numbers, but is accood ing to the numbers borne on the full establishment ofi the regiment ; and that no statements of the sums received, and of those actually disbursed by the Agents for this particular service, are ever laid be. fore the Board, although they are in the habit, it is said, of giving in half-yearly statements of their re ceipts, and of the disbursements, as nearly as they can be estimated from the returns of effective num bers received from the Deputy. Adjutant General's office. The subsistence for the companies of Artil lery at other stations abroad, is issued on Bills of Ex change drawn on the Agents by the Ordnance Store keepers or acting Paymasters at the several stations, after the bills have been transmitted to the Board by the Agents, with an application for an issue to the amount of them. Mr. Drewry who has the superin tendence of this branch of Messrs. Greeawood and Cox's agency, apprehends that the Board has no means of checking the amount of such Bids, or, in other words, of regulating the sums to be issued t' the Storekeepers, &c. abroad, except through the in formation. to be communicated from the Agents ; yet the Agedts do not at the time that they make these applications to the Board, add any statement or cer. tificate chewing that the amount was properly drawn for, for they consider, it is said, the words •' Certi fied," or , 6 Approved," which are put on each Bill by the Officer commanding . at the station, as suffi cient to justify the application. ^ It is added, how ever; that the Agents have wade representations tv the Board as to the propriety of accepting and pay ing such Bilk, when they have appeared considerably to exceed the amount required fir the payment of subsistence at the station at which they are drawn. It is stated further that the Agents are considered re sponsible for the rate of Exchange at which these Bills are drawn, as well as for their amount ; yet it appears that they take no steps to ascertain the correct ness of the rate before they apply to the Board for an issue to pay them ; and that when they are making out their annual accounts, which include the accounts of these Foreign Storekeepers and Paymasters, they rely for the correctness of the rate stated in them, on the affidavits of the Storekeepers, &c. annexed, s , de daring, that no premium or emolument whatever, either directly or indirectly, has been received for or on account of the Bills drawn by them on the Agents of the Royal Regiment of Artillery, but such only for which credit has been given in the said ac counts current." The issues to the Agents on account of the regulai ted allowances, such as extra bread and meat, 6cc. are made quarterly, on applications founded, as to their amount, upon the disbursements of the preceding period ; and half-yearly statements are given in, shewing the amount of the receipts and disburse ments on this account withiu the period, and the ba lance. The issues for the incidents for the home ser vice are made in the same manner. The allowanem and incidents for the companies of artillery abroad, do not pass through the hands of these agents, but are issued by the Board direct to the Storekeepers or Paymasters at the several stations. The subsistence for the invalid battalion is issued monthly, together with the subsistence of the companies of the march ing battalions at home ; but the issues for the pay ment of half-pay, retired pay, and pensions, are made quarterly, 'upon application, accompanied with state- , mentsiof the numbers of pensioners, and the names of the half-pay and retired officers, with the rates of ! pensions and allowances per diem. The issues on account of the recruiting service of the artillery are made on statements of receipts and disbursements, shewing the balance. It must be observed however I of these last issues, that they include subsistence mo ney for the recruits, and therefore as. the issues under the distributions before spoken of ale made accord ing to the full establishment of the companies, that so far as respects the number of reeruits,• there is a double issue of subsistence to the agent. The pay and allowances of the artillery of the German Le gion are the same as those of the British artillery, and are issued in the same manner. The foreign ar tillery have also the same pay and allowances, but the money is issued for that part of this corps which is stationed in Great Britain, generally on applica tions made half-yearly, and for the other part of it, which is stationed in the West Indies, on the bills of resident storekeepers. The money for the detach-, ments of the artillery stationed in Ireland is issu ed from the funds of that country to a Deputy of Messrs. Greenwood and Cox, in Dublin. The extra allowance of ten shillings per diem, which the Field Officers of the artillery commanding in the se veral military districts of Great Britain and Ireland receive, is usually issued twice in that year ; it is paid to them by the special orders of the Board for each payment, and is charged in the account of incidents. —lt will appear from the foregoing statement, that the Board has the means of judging correctly on the propriety of the issues for the several services alluded to,. except in the cases of the bills drawn by the store keepers and paymasters abroad, and of the subsis tence which is described to be issued under monthly distributions, formed on the full establishments of the companies of artillery. It would be more satit.fac tory, we think, with respect to the first of these ex cepted cases, if the agents were instructed in all their applications for authority to accept the bills, to cer tify that the amounts are not greater, in their opi nion, than the services at the stations from which they are drawn require, and that the bills are nego ciated, according to the enquiries which they have made, at the most favourable rate of exchange of the place and date. This measure seems to be the more expedient, because it is considered by Mr. Drewry that the agents are not responsible for the balances in the hands of the store-keepers and acting paymasters abroad, as these officers are not appoint ed by them ; and because it is not in the agent's power to prevent them from drawing for more mo ney than may be necessary. The second exception made, because the subsis tence is issued on the full establishment every month, according to distributions delivered in previously to the commencement of each year, without any perio dical information of the amount actually disbursed I for this service ; for the statements which the agents are said to deliver into the Board half-yearly shew only what it is calculated has been disbursed. There may be cash balances, therefore, in the hands of the agents beyond what the Board of Ordnance might probably intend should remain with them. We learn in fact, that these balances, on the 31st of December in each year from 1804 to 1809, and or. the 30th April, 1810, a few days previously to our examina tion of Mr. Drewry, had been very considerable, particularly those on the 31st of December, 1809, and on the 30th of April, 1810, the first being fifty. six thousand two hundred and seventy-eight pounds, and the second fifty-one thousand seven hundred and sixty pounds. It was stated, hoe ever, that there were estimated claims on these last balances, includ ing pay undrawn by officers, and sums occasionally lodged by officers of the regiment, to the amount on that of 1809, of fifty thousand pounds, and on that of 1810, of forty-five thousand. pounds. It is never theless evident that a more strict attention should be given to the subject of the issues to the agents, than seems to have been practisedi for we find that bills I to the amount of ten thousand pounds, part of the estimated claims on the balance of 1809, and of twenty-seven thousand pounds, including the former ten thousand pounds, on that of 1610, were calculated to be due for the pay of the artillery in Portugal, but which had not made their appearance on the 11th of May, 1810." This information was not' communicated to the Ordnance, however, until morning of the examination of Mr. Drewry, and . therefore, as one means of preventing the unneces. nary accumulation of cash balances in the Arne hands, we would recommend that the subsisting@ should not be issued under monthly distributions foe any of the companies of artillery serving out Great Britain, nor until after the bills drawn for it have been preseated at the Agents', and have been sang tioned by the Board, in the same manner as is pra t 1 tised at present with respect to the pay of th e an ii . lery serving in America and the East and West ht. dies. Mr. Drewry admitted that the cash balances in the Agents' hands arose almost exclusively f rom the issues under the distributions, and that he saw no objection to the course which we have recommended for better regulating these issues. The money for the artillery serving out of Great I Britain, is issued by the Agents to_the Store.k eepele and Actin Paymasters, in the manner before me n , tioned. 'These officers used to receive a pou n d age ' from the public on the money distributed to them, but in 1809, this allowance was abolished, and aix addition was made to their salaries in lieu of it.., The subsistence and regulated allowances of the a t . tillery serving in Great Britain, are issued to the,c ap . tains or officers commanding companies or detach. meats, according to monthly abstracts which th ey transmitted to the agents. All the commissioned of. ficers have separate . accounts with the agents for the money thus issued to them, and are Mowed t wo pence in the pound on the disbursements. Th e The . ney under the head of Incidents is not issued by the agents without the special authority of the Board fry; each item. The Storekeepers and acting Paymuters abroad transmit to the Agents half-yearly abstract of di, bursements, accompanied with the necessary voucher,, and half-yearly accounts curtent, showing also U lf . amount of such disbursements, and the laps dru m and money received within the period, and th e or loss by exchange on the bills drawn. Th eeets l' ir , regulation fixing tile time in which these accoust eare to be transmitted, but these officers are direct e d t , transmit them as soon as they conveniently caa alter the termination of each half-year, and it is bury that in every case they could be made up within tw o months after the period of each account. It is eta. ted, however, as one of the causes of the delay whi c h has occurred, as will presently appear in the traae h i o „ sion by the agents of the annual accounts of the who regiment to the Surveyor-General's Office, that du x . counts from the foreign stations of the artillery area received until a considerable time at* t h e p er i o d s ' to which they are made up, particularly front Cey. lon and Canada—the half-yearly accounts from Ilse .first of these places, owing to the distance, and from the second, owing to the dispersed state of the dr• tachments, not being usually received until near t twelvemonth subsequent to the termination of the pe. riod. The only steps which have been hitherto take. to enforce the transmission of these Accounts, have been for the Agents, when they have thought thnthe Accounts have not been transmitted within a rearoa. able time, to apprize the Accountants of the ciao. stance, and to desire them to transmit the accosts by the first opportunity after the receipt of their in. ten. As the regular making up and traumatise of the Agents' accounts to the Surveyor-Gael% Office, depend so much on the receipt of thew counts of the Storekeepers and acting Paymaster; abroad, it seems that the regulation of the Bonin. specting the transmission of civil accounts frcn abroad, should be extended with such variatioatar may be necessary to the Military accounts ; and that it shotild be required of the Agents to make poi" &cal returns to the Board, of those Officers wbnIRN not forwarded their accounts within the time spa ci fie d. The Captains and Officers commancfing amp nies and detachments at home, transmit to theAgests monthly pay lists, with the muster rolls and odes vouchers for the regulated allowances, to cover the sums drawn during the month, and also accents current half-yearly. The monies fur the Recruiting service of the As.. tillery, are drawn by the Non-commissioned Olio of each battalion employed on that service, bum gulated, as to the amount, by the directions come nicated to the Agents from the Adjutants olds* spective battalions. The accounts of the ezpendinat of this money are made up by the Adjutants. and use certified by them to the Agents, and by the Cash manding Officers also of each battalion. The money for the service of that part of the Coe man Artillery which is stationed in Great Britilim• is issued tb the Paymaster belonging to the establisheee of that corps, who transmits the accounts din* penditure to Messrs. Greenwood and Co. by what they are included in the accounts of theirArelleryi that corps. The course observed in Messrs. Greenwood ad Cox's Office, in checking and new-arranging .• several accounts, is hilly detailed in a paper cuW nicated by Mr. Drewry, and seems to be well aka. 1 laced to detect er rors an d d ou bl e charges. There is no regulation of the Board &Oil% within what peri.4 the Agents should deliver I their annual accounts, and we learn, that duriag tie first years of Messrs. Cox and Greenwood's AgestY to the regiment of Artillery, there was no pubis& exertion in making up and forwarding the ammo of the Surveyor-General's Office ; but it is Rath thak since 1805, when the Agents were patticisdi called on by theßoard to send in their accounts, exertion has been used to forward thau—sit seemed to be noticed in May, 1810, as a prod!' that the accounts under Mr. Drewry's • - dence to the end of 1806, with the excepti a lg or two heads of disbursements, had been ' and that those of 1807 were in such WNW* that it was expected they would be given MM. the end of 1810. We have already noticed the time elapsed Mille quent to the periods of the accounts, before that., keepess and Paymasters abroad transmit 611. 01 counts to the Agents, being mentioned as we d causes for ties delay on the Agents part—allk added, that the necessary examination and meat of them, and of the vouchers, after 2 0 1 1 : received, and the entering of them in books, &c. require such a. considerable time, dot„ i ! was doubted by Mr. Drewry whether it wok! practicable to make them up and to deliver at.z tbell INF the Surveyor General's Office, without being two years and a half to three years in are Mr. Angell, the chief clerk in the Surveyor rat's Office, says, that they do not look for doe!' similar accounts in general till after three ymers o 7 be gives ale. as the reason for this obserddille. i dispersion of the companies and detad4g .- tant parts of the world." As moth delay in transmitting the Artillery l a Accounts to the Surveyor General's to be owing so the practice of givinglbli, f pine, it became as object of our coqulrri ' • • Si Ot a SC is' mi g fa tic A be pie te the be sn lb Of gni tio of Tic wil la, UJI «1 N 1 w 1 Tel aec au ye, tea De fac we Cll ch; 8 11 sty the fur St, lel • Os 011 t•. t - ,