Star. — London, England, 1820-05-03 00:00:00

rnent of spies ; but their existence, let it be remem bered, lenders it equally unnecessary to employ in stigators—( Hear, hear). I say this, that / should: not be considered as joining in the common olaMour against the use of spies, and without at all blaming the employment of Edwards. But if it does appear that lie went beyond his office, and was, in fact, an iastigator, and in matters totally unconnected with the late plot.—if he shall be proved to have been an instigator, and in the manner mentioned, in aNdistiu.et F lo: —then I say that the cause of justice will be sa crificed, if, for this new offence, some satisfactory cause be not shewn why he is not brought to trial." (Hear). Mr. C ANNING said, he believed there were occa sions when the House employed itself upon consider ing, not whether or not the topics proposed to their notice were to be decided as good or bad, but whe ther or not the time was a fitting one to have them discussed at all? It seemed to be the general sense of the House that they could not come to any useful ccnclusions upon the motion just submitted to them. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman seemed to think that there was a disposition in the House to treat the subject with levity. For his part, he was not con scious of any manifestation of such a feeling, and as little could he plead guilty to the charge of having accused the Hon. Member of joining in the popular cry, and which he had now in such a manly and creditable manner disclaimed—against the mode which Government was forced to make use of in order to become acquainted with plots against the State. He (Mr. Canniiit) never thought the Hon. Member capable of such imprudence. He was well disposed to rest the defence of Government, and not only of the British Government, but of all Governments in the civilized world, for having employed the only means which offered themselves, to counteract the dispositions of their enemies, and take advantage of the prostitution of one set of melt in order to defeat the machinations of others as wicked. That defence, he repeated, he was ready to rest updn the state ment of the Honourable Gentleman—(Hear, hear). What he particularly had in view in standing up to address the House, was to intimate to the worthy Alderman, that it appearing to be the sense of the /louse that the motion could not be discussed, he rould withdraw it. It would be for him at a future time to consider of it. At present he (Mr. Canning) would give no opinion upon the subject, referring ele worthy Alderman to his own good sense and judgment to guide him, and appealing to his own consideration as to the propriety of the topics that cr:ght to he discussed at that particular time. Alderman WOOD expressed his readiness to with draw his motion. At the same time he wished to ob serve, that in bringing the matter forward he had avoided, as much as possible, stating anything that could inflame the public mind. Many of the deposi tions were of such 3 nature, as he was unwilling to send forth to the world, and therefore he did not read them. He should now ask leave to withdraw Lis motion; but he would not state whether the sub ject would be again introduced. On that point he would consult his friends. Mr. CANNING hoped he had not said anything whkh could lead the Hon. Alderman to imagine, that he disapproved of the manner in which the sub ject had been brought forward. He had merely ob jected to an unpratible discussion. The motion was then withdrawn. CIVIL psi.. The Order of the Day for the House going into a Committee on the Civil List Acts being read, the SPEAKER accordingly left the Chair, when The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose to move the first Resolution, the purport of which was to giant to his Majesty an annual Revenue of 1850,000 for England, and £207,000 foareland. Sir HENRY PARNELL affirmed, that, with the information at present before the House, it was im possible for the House to do its duty. They were called upon by the Speech from the Throne to pro vide for the expenses of the Civil Government, and they were informed that the Hereditary Revenues of the Crown were placed at the disposal of that House. There was a variety of points connected with these topics, which it was absolutely necessary the House should be in possession of before they could with propriety legislate upon the subject. The House ought to lee informed what the expense of the Civil Government actually was. The Honourable Barnet quoted the authority of Mr. Burke, in.justification of his censure on the Royal Household, as at present constituted. With regard 1.1 the Hereditary Reve nue•, it was an important consideration to make them as productive as possible. The expense of collection might, he thought, be considerably diminished. The Revenue of the Duchy of Lancaster and Principality of Wales, .ought also to come under their considera tion. It was impossible for him at present to say what papers he ought to call for; .but if time were granted, he would come down to the House prepared to move for such papers as, in his view of the subject, were essential before the House decided upon the subject. Under the present want of information, he dui not think proper to commit himself by voting kr the Resolution. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, tiat the present course was adopted in consequence of fell from some of the Hon. Gentlemen opposite, and was acceded to by him for mutual convenience. Colonel DAVIES conceived that by this Itesolu-' tion the whole Revenue, as fixed in Ibl6, was pro posed to be settled on his Majesty, with the exception of the allowance to his late Majesty. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the lion. Gentleman was in error: there ere further surnsileducted. Colonel DAVIES said, the error he had fallen into ras a striking argument for a further delay, as it vi enced tale i necessity of Gentlemen being better n torined before they could come to a decision. Mr. CANNING said, that he was aware that in rrict arg ument no person i n t h at H ous e could bind i:}e decision of even the person who sat next 14m, but revertheless it was the practice—a practice adopted I r menial convenience, for a Certain disposition of t :e business of the House to be arranged as to a cer tain stage of it, with the understanding that no de bate was to arise thereon in that stage. If such ar rangements were not to be attended to, if such tacit trl , :erstandings were not considered binding, Olcte w.ts an cod at once of all the system, ap4wit41.4.14 11 the accommodation resulting. Mi. TIERNEY observed, that in what he had said en a former night, which had now been alluded be had merely wished that-the Hottse A 04411141 put in possession of the line of cowitici teitt4), the, qnvernment intended to ;)ttrsue 94 0,115 9C*901 And in considerin g hiinself as, _ bhand net to op2ofre the ResolUtions in the present stage, he had . qo means meant to preclude himself from gi ving them all the opposition in his power in their future stages, should he think fit so to do. Before - he Sat down be wished to know, if the Revenue of her Majesty was included in, the arrange Men; made in the year MIA? Mr. 141.}SKISSON said, the income of the Quce. was settled r hy a subsequent Act, and was paZa lle out of the Consolidated Fund. Lord A. HAMILTON said, that notwithstanding what had been said, he was fearful of being pre chided, in the future stages, from discussing the principle of the measure, if not the details of it, and therefore he must withhold Ids consent 4o any ar rangement by which kis right to do that would 'be compromised—( Cries of "No, no," front the Minis terial Denehes).—Unquestionably, he said, if the whole subject was Co te just as open on the nett stage as on the present, he could have no objection to postponing his observations till then, though *he, thought the more regular way of proceeding would' have been to discuss them in the first stage. Mr. CANNING said, that undoubtedly, not only in point of form would the subject be fully open for discussion in its future stages, but alio froin the un derstanding of the House on it. He agreed with the Noble Lord, that the more natural wax soul have been the one he had desiderated, but it was from the understanding of his Right Hou. Friend, the Chan. cellor of the Exchequer, Qf what would be most con venient to the Gentlemen opposite, that he had taken the present course ; and it would be a little hard, after he had acceded to it on such considerations, if they were to refuse the Vote on grounds which they had solicited him to take. The object was merely to advance the measure one stage, and no unfair advan. tage would or could be taken of the present arrange ment. These would be many other stages in which it would be perfectly open for discussion, both is its principle and details. Lord ARCHIBALD HAMILTON expressed him self satisfied, limn what the Right Hon. Gentleaum had said, to waive his objections. Mr. HUMS did not approve of the plan now pro posed. In 1815-16, when an inquiry into the Civil List was called for, it was shut out, and they were then told that a time would occur when it would be proper to investigate the Hereditary,Revenues, and those branches over which the House had no con troul. The House had, therefore, a right to take into consideration the state of the King's separate Heredi tary Revenue; the Revenue, for instance, derived from Scotland, which produced £BO,OOO or I:90,000 ; the Droits of the Admiralty ; the sums received from the Four-and-a-half per Cent. Duties; and the monies collected in Gibraltar. Consistently with the Speech from the Throne, the Estimates laid before the House should be of the mott economical description; but he would contend, that the Estimates now submitted to their consideration were of the most extravagant kind. The Report of the Finance Committee said, that the 6th of George 111. fixed the different Esti mates. It was then declared, that the ensuing In come should be estimated on an average . of the three last years, 1818,1814, and 1815 7 -three years of the most extravagant expenditure that was to be found in the annals of British Finance. He, therefore, argued, that in proposing to the House to adopt the extrava gant estimate of 1815, which was admitted to be greater than that of 1&13,1914, and 1815, Ministers were not attending to the directions of . his Majesty, and were neglecting a systeM of economy which ought to be pursued in every department of the State. He wished to know what the Expenditure was, un der different items,_ since the passing . of the Act of 1816 ? he should also wish to be informed what the total amount of the Expenditure for the Civil Go vernment of this Country was? because they were now going to vote, under the single head of Civil List, a sum that did not, in point of fact, amount to more than one-fourth of the Civil Expenditure. He alluded to all those items that were defrayed from the Civil List, at the accession of his late Majesty. By various Acts passed since that period, the Civil List had been freed from a charge of I 600,000; and, notwithstanding that, they were called on to grant a greater sum than was voted at the accession of his late Majesty. This, in the present state of the Coun try, was highly improper. Instead of such a pro ceeding, he had expected that the Right Honourable Gentleman would have submitted a proposal of re trenchment, beginning with his Majesty, and going on to reduce the salary of every public officer belong ing to the Conntry. Such was the situation of the Fi nances, that unless they made a considerable reduction in the Expenditure of the Country, it was impossible they could go on wit f hout.flying from speculation .to speculation, and-thus adding to the immense Debt by which the Country was ground down. He, for one, considered the present mode of _proceeding wrong in principle ; it was not doing justice to the House or to the Country. After reducing his Ma jesty's Establishment, the salary of every individual ought to be proportionably reduced. kjowtheylad.it in their own power toeffect this reduction ; and they. availed themselves properly of the - opportaßiCT, al thouggh he did not expect such a relief as some,con temPlated, lie did believe that consider'able relief could be afforded to the Country. So far, therefore,, from keeping their pledge to that House and to the Country, Ministers had violated theirpledge to both. All he could do was to protest against soch a pro utediug. He approved highly of what the Honour able Member for Winchelsen had said the first night on the subject of the Hereditary Revenues ; for no' money ought to be givento the Crown but what was under the coatroul of that House. Inquiry had for merly been resisted upon this Subject ; and it yeas &Lai ways said to them, " Wait till a change takesplace,; and then you may enter freely upon the inquiry.", This had been the bargain made with the House; but, now that the change had taken place, no . ciuiry was allowed. Sir H. rARNELL was that the Right Hci, nourable Gentleman pirfecttY correct in stating; that there was an understanding between Ministers and his Honourable and R.ight lionautableFrieWs that the motion of the Committee was to 4vepasset,i in silence, and the discussion reserved. for _ the recep tion of the Report. He did not -adroire the plan i that agreement, as it set aside the whole policy usually autedoninsimilaroccasions. He thought,thit before the subject was brought fornar4;9l.ts EFcsgs t dwie, there ought C o haieTein the utmost befitte the Maas% as to the asisiont and applies:- , 4 0 16: got 0 0,17 of tilt sign rider co, aidatratiors. hsaii au is other fpnsl! spicr&V.} received and di j sbursed the Crown. He would further say, that he pot only. did net approve d the course-adopted, because of its deviation from the general mode of pioceeding, but he firlit that there ought W have bees a Select Conr an** aPPOtOiI, to which aU the Mem skvAlW have been 'Alerted, aad the amen of this Cotntnittec ought to have preced e d the aepi t io o of a COM mittee of the whole House. he did not feel hithselt bnund to the support of anything now proposed, Which was, indeed, only propiased by way of informa tion. Evert Member would be : at liberty to detet mine according to the effact which fit:4ler tiplitaa tien and discussion would prodiwe on his 'Mind when the debate should take plaEe.' , Mr. MIMIC:HAIL said, that the circumstance of not then opposing the natation, did not in the lea& de gree bind any 14otbers from doing so it: the discus son which would take place on the measure on Fri day. The measure before the Hour was only a par liamentary mode of laying the necessary information before the House. Sir J. NEWPORT said, that certainly no Member was bound ty deferring his opposition to the present motion to defer it altogether. He recommended a strict investigatio'n when the subject came under dis cussion. Of the Revenue of Ireland, one entire branch of it had been diverted from its proper channel, and the charges which it maintained were now levied on the People. He would not then pro long the discussion by stating the particulars of this affair, to which he only wished thus briefly to allude. The Resolution was then carried. On the ilKition of the CHANCELLOR of the EL CHEWIER it was resolved, that these charges should be taken out of the Consolidated Fund. It was ordered, that Accounts of the Hereditary Revenues should be laid before the House. The House resumed, the Chairman reported pro gress, and the Report was ordered to be taken into consideration on Friday. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY. The CHANCRLWOR of the 'EXCHEQUER fussed the rder of the Day for receiving the Report of the Committee of i pply. The Resolution of the Committee, that Supplies should be was read a first and second time. The iteport of the Committee was ordered to be referred to Committee of the whole House to-morrow. It was ordered, that there be laid before the House copies of the lid, 4th, sth, and 6th Reports of the Conunissionets ap pointed to inquire into the Departments of Customs and Excise. Ordered, that there be laid before the House an Abstract of the net Produce of the Revenue,. with the usual distinctions as to the time of the Receipts; and a separate Account of the Amount derived from the New Duties. Also Accounts Of the Eackeques Rills received in payment of Duties, distinguishing the Atnounts received on the Ise January, sth April, and 2 T. sewers/4. 'Mr. id wax moved for Accounts to be laid before the House, variously classed and distinguished, of are total Funded and Un funded Debt of Great Britain, and of the Interest paid thereon, between sth ha- 1819, and sth Jan. 1820.—Ordered. auscriukusouss The usual Navy, Army, and Civil Estimates were ordered to be laid before the House. Mr. Lountotott brought thept up. They were laid on the table, and ordered to be printed. Mr. WILSON moved for Accounts tithe Wool and Woollen Manufactures exported Om the country 10 tb game of Lut year. Mr. LUSHINGTON brought up in 'Armoric of the Ab street Revenue of Grua Britain; and Alpo of the Amount of NeW Duties, accordiug to ttic Orders of the House, which were laid upon the table. Adjourned at twenty minutes put seven o'clock. LAW INTELLIGENCE. COURT OF KING'S BBNCM, MAY 1. THE KING D. HUNT, JOHNSON, BAMFORD, AND HEALY. The defendants-appeared early in Court this morn ing, and about 11 o'clock Mr. Justice BAYLEY pro ceeded to-read his notes of the trial which took place at York. He began by stating, that the indictment on which the defendants had been convicted con sisted of seven counts, and that the verdict was found on the fourth only. The substance of this was, that they had caused an unlawful Meeting of great num bers of persons, to the terror and alarm of the King's subjects, and for the purpose of exciting disaffection and discontent. On coming to that part of Murray's testimony which related to the drilling at White moss, his Lordship observed, that this evidence had been objected to, but he was inclined to think it legal, and therefore admitted it. _ _ About one o'clock, and as Mr. Justice BAYLEY con cluded his report of Entwistle's evidence, the LORD CH . ME - JIISTICE left the Court, ht. order to sit at Nisi Prigs, in Guildhall. He intimated to the bAr, as well as to the defendants, that as there was one case upon the paper which had already been heard in part, the Court would to-morrow take that in the first place, and then resume the further cohsideration of Mr. Hunt's motion. . . MAY 2. Mr. Justice BATLEY, at half-past eleven o'clock, resumed the reading of his notes ofevidence adduced in support of the prosecution in this case. Mr. Hunt-- - -Will your Lordship allow me to make one suggest ion ? . The LORD CHIRr JUSTICZ--StQp p moment Mr. Hunt. Mr. Hunt—lt will tend very much to save the time of your LOrdships. •' - The 1411 D Quits Jusricg,,Wait a moment, Sir ; you see there ria.cominpnication taking place be tween two of the Judzei'tif the Court r LNOW; Mr: Hunt then 'said, that olla of his iiints:of ob jection appeared to have been' . ( aisotten by the Learned Judge before whore the trial took pla!e. He alluded to the admission of that paii . ortheevidetiCe Which related to the flizi used at the . Meetin:g. Mr. Justice kplirelieqeil that he bad : tipt yet come to that pait Ofthe ev ide nce. Mr. Bunt-1 t h ink ; 11) , ;' Zoo have : my oh jeCtion was taken'io the evidenco of lf ?i tton—to that rpart t of his evidence / in w hich, .SpeAttug s of the ilitgs, states . the iiiiCtiption upon one of%em have to been, a. LiVertfoi t Piathl" .. MY : Otjeciiiiii was; that' the•sags iliemselvisonght have ye been produced.' Juiiice s li, ' :11Rctn notes, COUTd niii• grid' that :any .objectiOn had bein! taken to evid,enCe gortoti ; but if dAre`siere any such ObieCtion, s the .have the he:peti . 4 • bunt 4feiteci to a taper which he heft hand, .and.i,aid; • tha t tlip . 4jectiOn tyfakpear . nio9r , the notes winch we're"iike;Cat die trial:' Mr. Justice BAYLEY said, that no notes could be+ aamttied crcetpL tiAtittpitido bad been tang g by law. self at the iris!. " Thitenitiessizt Yiyarins-1 wilt add this obset tion, Mr. Hunt; to' eitria isliections which you have stated. You object to the admission of the evi dence with re,speetv,cstbe tralaiag 4-14/lokse.moss, and also to the evidence as , 'to th e ripticniS which were upon she flags. The ATTOREBY.GENIRAT. put in the placairds which gave notice pf 14eAckeptcr meetiqw, and the counter-advertisement s e of the. Magi,s ‘ traw, cau tioning the people not to attend s . Jtistide BAYLEY then prneeeded in reading the. evidence ; and upon that part . cif 'the testimony of Matthew Cowper Which . spoke ciC the exhibition of "five caps of Ikberty,7 Zf< il,4ncislAp clothed; that that fact was more fully itroecd by the witcts.s Ellis. Mr. Hunt thought . tha kt t Was at that point th a t he had requested to see the notes of Cowper, which request had been refused. Mr. Justice BAYLEY did not know. If such was the fact, be should probably come' to it by lad gye. His Lordship continued to read; and %WOO anotkee part of Cowper's evidence, is Wikli the %YAW% irati said, " that the flags wetp at the ti‘les. of 41% polar he observed,.that upon that point Cnsiper Wis w'ron i g. The resolutions of the Smithfield Meeting were diets put in and read, which closed the evidence for the prosecution.. • The Loen.Cutee.Jurrscs.— lt is now two o'elfickt and, in order that Mr. Justice Bayley may not be 'exhau'sted with continued reading, I think it Will tie convenient to stop here fin' the present. 'We wit" tp on with this case to-morrow morning. , The Court then heard some special arguments, none of which had any public interest. COURT OF COMMON FLEAS, Nor O. SEVERN AND OTHERS V. SLADE AND Ori!ltal. Mr. Serjeant BLossiv moved 'for a Rule to shew cause why there should not be a new trial in 'this case. It was an action on a policy of insurance brought by the plaintiffs, as the owners of the large sugar refining house at Whitechapel, against the de- • fendants, as the representatives of the Imperial In surance Company. The policy in question was ef fected by the parties at an increased premium, on account of the great danger supposed to be attend ant on the business of a sugar refiner. The premises were destroyed by fire some time since, and on the plaintiffs' demanding payment of the sum for which' they had been insured, the defendants resisted.it on three grounds—first, that the premises were not Well described in the policy, according to the printed pro-. Posals of the Company i secondly, that the fire took place from a new process introduced without the de fendants' permission; which they contended, thirdly, had considerably increased the risk. The second and last points were those most relied on by the Learned Serjeant, who contended, that by not com municating every risk to the insurer, the policy was made void, observing at the same time, that this case was precisely similar to, and governed by, the rule with respect to policies of insurance on shipsy and that the situation of a.considerable part of these pre mises might be compared to that of a ship between trio hostile batteries when liable to be opened upon by either. He added, that the evidence and opinions of different gentlemen, as to the effect Of some ex periments tried to ascertain the fact of increased risk, were, at the trial, very contradictory to each other, owing to the recent discovery of the process alluded to; and; if a new trial should be granted, he hid no &nil* 'but that the evidence would be more defi nite and certain, anclthe result more satisfactory to all parties.—Rule to shew cause granted. OLD BAILEY, MAY st. John Rsisimuon, alias TISOCIUSS Turner, aged en, was capitally indictbd feffelonioudy - uitering various forged one-pound notes, with intent to defraud the Governor and Company of the Bank of England—Guilty. Witham Bients was put to tht bar upon an indictment which charged him wida having' uttered, knowing them to be forged, a £1 and a £5 forged note, with intent to defraud, Stc.—Jdni Serjeant Bosononex was about to'cipen the cue, when some of the Jury requested to be permitted to Withdraw. Several of them accordingly withdrew, and shortly afterwards a ll but one returned to the box. ' The bsent Juryman was sent lei, and found at home, anti be wan Aped ollno.—Gent-Betort • ' - Yesterday, the friends of the families of the unfortunate men who were executed the day !salon for High Treason, met at a public-house, and after some discussion upon the submit of raising a su bscription for the wives • lot children of theee who were transported, as well as these who were hapged, adopted a resolution to apply to Lord Suruorrn for leave to take away the bodies of the deceased froM Nest:gate; Their oblect was to exhibit the bodies foe the benell . t of the poor famlliks, which are literally starving. It Was prophsed by some that the Loan Mayo& should be applied to; as it was probable hie:WA ship's authority might extend to he disposal of the bodies i but, after some deliberation, it apreared to be the'sense of the room, that the Loan Mayoa had no power of thelind—ehit his Lied ship had no more authority to give up a body upon which she sentence of the law bad been put In force than he bad to order the execution. It was suggested; however, 'by one of the Ind viduals who attended, that though the Lash Maven lead tip power of the kind, his Lordship's recommendation would, lnill Trobability, be a t te n ded to by Lord Sinuoiree. The Meeting. -in . . ,entertained fOr some tinuktlutintesiticia ctimiski l / 4 the app citios to his Lerdship ; another of the company rev* seated that it would be needless to - isle a &ever of hini, . The*lttnit, however, still lichi t h e opinion Wit apiicaticu 'haute be made, but they determined that Lord Stsprotrgh *Wad be the authority to which thej should apply. ISO actordingly sent a request to his Lordship that the bodies might be given hp to the friends of the deceased, and matins, that the object was thd hhinarit one Of raisint - the 'remain OrsuPport for the wives end children. by a public exhibitlon,lt io unnecessary to orate that his Lordship did not, hesitate to refuse tbe mum A channel 'wee dna on Monday night'alongs of the sub.. tOW!**OIOIPMII9e Olt leads to 'no bail-dock, and abuse owe. o'clocir in the evening the Coigns were filled up with quick line and being' stretstli liertiralip, litre placed in a straight line With Sigh Awand, iIPPK4i9WO strewed over with earth, 1 04 !Wally embed ` with stones. le is inapeesible to describe the agonies expreued by the wives nt OiaPP erwitsh who *PPUI4 at . fftlate litlter.d4Yawbrits49 ter see elk* hiasbands k who were ordered for tratimortarano, whelp neet whet infersised, 0 ' Their husbandi wiie'son 'Mead Mr Trtrw” .itlVß!dity!y..ntaile wi t .' applitltird!'to 411-.aberf reams, who aeciarea ars total Ignorance of both the shove circumstances. — N o lte wife of Strange is in an adiiuirerd stfirsibi , VeOpeY , .a,a#r whi* 44 00 *IthiPPY rtibto l Are. 0 p tacit wretched ,tate poverty. - . 1 - t. . . ..... .. N 0.9,80, a Prize of tSQ,Q(X), .*nod k5,'746, a Prize Of t 599 C6nsds, draWritirsday,.27o'April, were Shared aid gold by J. and J. StVilw itt flier_ ! at , their . t s rui y fortunate Offices, ST, Cohihill ; - 11; HOI- Will ;.I,tiiiiiinitriget ; anti 1411, Oxford-street,-.1..un -40 ; w ipTe Tickets 3ripi §ll;tes,,Nyajr4Osed ggiftorp, ar e on Sale fx the F 9 NP. grilAsj# 0 4 e 0 P , - .A 4 4- : L t., yet in the Wheel ' : 4rid'; as there o rb is -et nt Cipitia-Ptizei; in . NrOrierind Consols, Osr apwardi al Twenty of theiikmaj;be (helmet& ,01 ft. bieft : p3y• 9f ,Rweipt, - 18th „Mit, wipe the 'Toe 'affi tO .P.liics,. the WO' 4 )(44 0 9Q4jiteg )r Cowit-C. ,SSI* II / 4 . Wi14 1 . 4:04 - T First lizei. . l err. ~;