Star. — London, England, 1806-06-18 00:00:00

PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF LORDS, TUESDAY, JUNE z 4• Strangers were for fome time eacluded during a difculEon In the Committee of Privileges. After the doors were opened, the Houfe proceeded further in the Appeal " Graham 9. the Countefs Dowager of Glencairn," dur. tog which Lord Ellenborough fat for the Lord Chancellor. The Lord Advocate of Scotland was again, in part, heard for the Ref. pendent. Further hearing on Monday next. The LORD CHANCELLOR having taken the Woolfsek, Mr. G. Eyre, Mr. Joddrell, Sir Wm. Curtis, Mr. Alexander, and revere) other Members of the Haute of Commons, brought up kale private bills ' which were read a firft time. A period from Greenwich Hofpital prdcnted frveral papers, in purfuance of an Order of the Hoofs, which were ordered to lie on the table and to be printed. The IriOt Malt Duty Bill, and the Dublin Paving Bill, palled through Committees. and were reported. On the motion of the Earl of A BOYNE, their I.ordfhips were ordered to be fummoned to attend on this day re:might. MR ARMY. ...- ........ On the Order of the Day for the third reading of the Mutiny Bill, Lord HAWKESBURY rote and oppofed the prin ciple and detail of the meafure at confiderable length, and particularly urged the policy of extending the whole of the propofed fyllem to the prefent regular force of the country. The Noble Lord concluded with moving, that inflead of the terms of feven, four teen, and twentrone years, propofed in the bill, the words " for and duringthe termof twenty one years," be inferred. Lord LAUDERDALE obferved, that the great advantage of this plan was. that it comprehended perfons difpofed to engage in a military life upon al moll any terms. It gave every man the option of fusing for a limited time, and of gratifying his willies by entering for a fecond time at the expiration of the firft. It followed, therefore, that a great in ducement was held out to the man fond of unlimited as of limited fervice. But was it, he would afk, in the nature of things, nr confiftent with the difpofition of man, that unlimited fervice fhould be preferred to limited fervice in the army or any condition of life ? If the Noble Lords oppofite to him were to under nand that they would be limited, or bound for so or even (even years to the benches which they now occupied, without the option or hope of fitting dur ing either of thofe periods on the Treafury Bench. be may venture to fay, that thole benches would be foon thinned, if not completely deferred. This, ob ferved his Lordfhip. was not a new principle ; limit ed fervice had beets known and praflifed in the (even years and American wars with the greateft fuccefs. With the experience of its advantages before us: it would be propnftetous indeed if the Legiflature did not adopt and fanCtion a meafure fo highly beneficial. In corifionation of the fuccefs with which it was like ly to he attended, the Noble Lord read a letter from General Campbell, Dating, that at Plymouth, Chat ham, and other places. the recruiting of the Royal Marine fervice for a limited term had gone on with unexampled luccefs, not only in point of numbers, but in the appearance and charafter of the men vilified. As to the objeelion taken by the Noble Lord, with re (pee todrafting,it was well known that when a regiment was ordered to a diftant clime, or on foreign fervice, that there were always individuals belonging to that regiment, who, from age or other caufes, were in capable of encountering the fatigue of a voyage, or the heat of the climate to which the regiment was dellined, and who were, therefore, drafted into other regiments. If this meafure was carried into effeet, he did not believe that there would be at any time more men to draft on account of their terms of fee vice being near expiring, than there were now for other caufes. Another obj_Ction had been taken by the opponents of this meafure, as to the expence with whirh it would be attended; and, he mutt fay, that this had been mat unfairly argued. Thofe who had argued on this ground, had included in their eflimate the penfions given to difabled and retired foldiers, when it mull be evident that thefe penfions were what foldiers difabled by wounds or age, were juftly en. titled to, as a provilion for the remainder of their hies, and that they formed a ftrong inducement on the fide of the recruiting fervice. He would not de tain the Houle by entering into any further difcuflion of the fobjeel, the arguments urged on the other fi de had already been fully and completely snfwered. He Mould therefore merely declare his determination to oppofe the Amendment. Lord HAW KESBURY, in explanation, laid he had no knowledge whatever of the Order alluded to by tl.e Noble Earl. The Earl of SUFFOLK highly approved of the principle of limited fervice, but willed the first term to be for ten years, and the fecond for four, instead of the arrangement made in the bill. Lord WESTMORLAND 'aid, that he had re ferred to the Acts of Parliament mentioned by a Noble Lord (Spencer) on a former night, in fupport of limited fervice, and he found that the molt of them applied to the prefs Service, and not to enlift ment for the regular army. Having read molt of the proofs to which the Noble Lords on the oppofite fide , had referred him, and having alto duly confidered all the arguments which he had heard on'ahis fubjelt, he mull confer; that he Dill remained of opinion, that the prefent was, at belt, a hazardous experiment ; and denied any knowledge of the Order to which the Noble Earl (Lauderdale) had alluded. He fupported the Amendment. The quellion war then put, that the word " feven" Rand part of the Bill, which was carried. The Bill was palled, and a Ntlrage feat to the Houk of Com mons to acquaint them therewith. CH fiLSEA H SPITAL •LLow•wcas SILL. The Houle refolved itfelf into a Committee on the Chelfca Allowances Bill. A long convert:slims coined, in which the Earl of W ESTM (IRELAND, Lord HAWKESBURY,the Duke cf CUMBERLAND, and Lord ELLION, re. quelled 'nation from Noble Lords on the other ' fide as to the probable amount of the allowances to be itTned, and contended that it was unprecedented 0 bring in a Bill of this nature before Parliament wi:botit come previous edimate of the amount of the clot nce. Lord C RENVILLE, the Earl of ROSSLYN, the E ar l of CAERNARVON, Lord AUCKLAND, and the EArl of LAUDERDALE contended, on the other hand, that it was impoffible to make an Wises of an expence, the amount of which mud depend upon luny e eafoaliiec and contingencies, and that the only rihket of the Eill was to girt the fuldier a legal talc to receive thug': allowances, iwLich might be hereafter 4 - raid by his Maid) , a Vote of Parliament. _ I.ord ELDON complained that the Bill was amaz ingly unintelligible. Lord GRENVILLE Paid, if Noble Lords on the other fide would flay, he would endeavour, as far as his poor abilities would allow, dill further to explain the Bill. Lord ELDON Paid, he would Ray as long as the Noble Lord wifhed, if he could make the Bill intel• ligible. No further objellian was made to the Bill, which paired through the Committee, and was reported without amendment. _ A fhort converfation took place in an under tone of voice, between Lords GRENVILLE, WAL SINGHAM, and the CHANCELLOR, partly acrofs the table, relative, as we could coiled, to a queflion of privilege flailed on a former night, in confequence of which the grangers bad been directed to withdraw. The LORD CHANCELLOR alluded to the grounds upon which he was inclined to poßpone the difcullion of the above, and obferved, that the Com mons had no more conßitutional right to arreft or to enforce tbe attendance of a Peer of the Realm (al luding to a former vote of that Houfe, which in cluded Lord Teignmouth), than they had that of a Lord of Parliament; at the fame time tis.Lordfhip obferved, there appeared no proof to him, that that Houfe meant to ad in fuch a way. Some routine bulinefs was then difpofed of, and at half paR eight o'clock their Lordlhips adjourned till to-morrow (this day) when they Rand fummoned on Lord Grenville's intended propofitions refpeding the adminiaration of jullice in Scotland. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. BOYD ALEXANDER prefented a petition front certain Merchants and Inhabitants of Port Glafgow againft the American Intercourfe Bill, which was ordered to lie on the table, and to be heard by Cowed on the fecorad reading of the fald On the motion of Mr. Alderman COMBE, the London Dock Improvement Bill was read a rewind time, sal ordered to be com mitted. . —. Sir JOHN SINCLAIR gave petite, that to-morrow It was his intention to &red the attention of the Houk to the Report of the Committee on the Ad relative to Broad-wheeled Waggons, and to that put of it particularly that relater to the end& pd piers of Stage Coaches. The Scerstary of Greenwich Hofpital prefer ted at the Bar cer tain Accounts relative to the Hofpital, with the Minutes of the Commiffloners for the amelioration of the Out and In-Pculloners, as moved for yefterday by Lord Howick.--Ordercd te lie on the table. . . Lord TEMPLE prcfented a Petition from certain Planters of Jamaica spina the Bill now pending foe the Limitation of the Slave Trade. Ordered to lie on the table, and to be beard by Counts./ en the fecond reading of the BilL Mr. ROSE prefented a Petition from certain Merchants and Ship Owners spina the American intercourfe Bill, which was ordered to lie on the table. On the motion of Mr, FOX, the Slave Trade Bill was read a (mond time, and ordered is be committed on Thurfday. On the motion of Lord TEMPLE, the Thread Lace Bill was ordered to be recommitted tomorrow. Mr. HAWTHORNE broeght up the Report of the Committee of Supply. The Refulution granting the fun of adrelool. to the Houk of Chalmers and Cowie, as an indemnity for the lots they (Whined in their contradt for Swill& Herrings, was read and agreed to. On the motion of Lord TEMPLE, the Malta Ind Gibraltar Poftage Bill was read a feted tlene,and ordered to be committed tomorrow. On the motto of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHE QUER, the Weft India Auditors Bill was read a third time and W The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER gave make, that on Monday he would move for leave to bring In a Ball for the more diedually auditing the Public Accounts of the Kingdom. 1 be Pruflian Yarn Bill was read a fecund time, sod committed for to•morrow. Mr. Milieux from the India Board prefented certain Accounts relative to the Caruatic Debts, which were ordered to Ile on the table. The Duke of Grafton's Agreement Bill was alto read a fecond time, and ordered for commitment to-morrow. GLOB. INSUILINCS. Mr. Alderman COMBE moved the Order of the Day foe re. fuming the adjourned Debate en the Heft reading of the Globe Infurance Incorporation BR On the debate being returned, Sir JOHN ANDERSON oppofed the Bill, on the round of its operating to the prejudice of the other Companies, wbo had been at a great expellee in procuring their Incorporation. Sir THEOPHILUS METCALFE fupported the Bill, as highly treatable and expedient. Mr. SHAW LEFEVRE was ;OA it. After clearing the Gallery, however, the Bill was read a Brit time without a divifion, and ordered for the fecond reading. Sir JOHN ANDERSON then prefented Petitions from fermi Infurance Companies of the City of London againft the Bill,which were ordered to lie on the table, and to be heard by Comicial the fecond reading of the Paid Bill. Mr. Alderman COMBE prefented alto a Petition apinit the Bill from the Pelican Life lafuranee Office, which was thfried of In the fame manner. !ARLAND. Sir JOHN NEWPORT broeght in a Bill for regulating the Duties on Goods and Merchandise imported and exported into and from Ireland, and for the better payment of Bounties and Drawbacks on the fame, which was read a firft, and ordered to be read a fecond time to-morrow. " ' Sir JOHN NEWPORT brought up alto the NU for regulating and amending the kith Spirit Licence Alt, which was read a firft time, and ordered to be read a record time on Tkurfday next. On the motion of Sir JOHN NEWPORT, the Order of the Day for the Houle going into a Committee on the iriflt Militia Service Bill, was read for the purpofo of having it difeharged. Mr. BAGWELL. (poke at tome length agalnft the Bill, which he coati lered as exceptionable in feveral refpeEte, and hoped that in a new 818 the Right Hon. Baronet would take CAM to have thole exceptionable points removed. Sir JOHN NEWPORT obfervcd, that every attention had al ready been employed in framing the Bill, and allured the Hon. Member that it would be rendered as palatable as poffible. The Right Hon. Baronet then moved, that the order be dif charged, and obtained leave to withdraw the Bill. On the motion of Sir JOHN NEWPORT, the Irifh Eleellon Regulation bill was read a fetond time, and committed for Thurfday seat. Mr. ALEXANDER brought up the Report of the irifh Port Roads Mil. Mr. eARR objedted to that part of the Bill which fubjedled Baronies to the Ray+nent of *the expences of thole Roads. which, in Come places, ran a great way into them, and ought to be at the charge of the Counties at large. It was, he fold, his intention to propore a ciente to the of ee of what he mentioned. The SPEAKER informed him, that be would,in another Rage, have an opportunity of doing fo. Mr. FOSTER obferved, that the Hon. Member's claufe had been retufco in the Committee tall night, and fuppofcd the fame rcafons would be fufficient for its rejeCtion now. The beR way, in his opinion, would he, not to put the Grand Juries under any reftridtions, hut leave to them the diferetion, whether a part nt the expence (hook' be paid by the Baronies, or the whole defrayed by the counties at large ; sa,ln that refpcdt, many parts of Ireland were va7 diferently emoted. Mr. STEWART concurred in this opinion ; and the Bill was ordered to lee rads third time to-morrow. ♦FFAII{ OF INDIA. On the 'notionOf Mr. PAULL, the India Papers snowed for on the 13th inft. were ordered to be pto duced forthwith. . Mr. WALLACE, after adverting to the papers moved for by Mr. Nan, moved that there be laid byl before the Houk Copies of Ifeverailetten to and from Colonel Scot, fo far as they Mated to the coo -1 duet of the Nabob of Oude. Lord MORPETH (poke againft the motion. Mr. PAULL deptecared the treatment he had ex, perienced in feveral of his motions for India Papers, of which feveral had been attempted to be withheld on the ground of their containing (fate fecrets impro per for the public infpeetion. He alluded alto to the nrong oppitition that had been made to the papers he had lately moved for, under the pretext of their expofing the charaler of the Nabob of Crude. He denied they had any (itch tendency, and maintained that it they had, the ill conduit of that unfortunate Nabob was folely to be attributed to the cruel and arbitrary treatment he had met with from the. Mar quis Wellefley. He by no means witted for the pro duetirn of any papers that would implicate the cha react or condo!) of the Nabob, but confeffed, at the fame time, that he could have no objeltion to any papers that would throw light on the fubjed. Sir ARTHUR WELLESLEY objeaed only to the papers in queflion, as they might lead to the im plication of the Nabob, and allured the Houfe, that his Noble Relation was anxious only to prevent any thing from coming out to the prejudice of the Nabob, and by no means to as to auy papers in which he him (elf only was concerned. Mr. PAULL here complained that paragraphs, from whatever pretext, had been withheld in feveral of the papers he had moved for, that were extremely neceltary to enable him to make out his charge. Mr. CALVERT was of opinion that the produc tion of any papers would be highly improper, that would expo& the condo& of a Prince with whom we were in alliance. Such a proceeding, he mai* tained, would be difgraceful, and therefore expiated his determination to divide the Houfe. After Come farther converfation Mr. WALLACE withdrew his motion, though convinced of the pro priety of the Houfe having before them fuch papers as would put them in complete potteffion of the fags. Mr. PAULL faid, that obferving a Noble Lord now in his place (Lord Temple), whofe motion re fpeaing Oude flood for to-morrow, he willed to know if it would be continent with that Noble Lord's views, to admit evidence on the quenion ? He Mould certainly oppofe entering on the confederation of the charges tomorrow, if it was meant merely to come to a vote without admitting the evidence, and thould therefore requat the Noble Lord, if that was his intention, to withdraw his motion, that another might be fubftituted in its room, embracing a larger view of the fubjeet. Lord TEMPLE obferved, that in giving . notice of his motion for to morrow, he had been induced to take up the queflion merely from a with to pre vent any long delay, and believed it would be in the recolleaion of the Honfe that he had previoufly ap plied to the Hon. Gentleman to know if it was his intention to adopt any proceeding on the quellion ? He had thought it of the utmoft confequence that as little delay as poffible mould take place in the invef tigation, after fuch thong charges had been brought forward againtt the Noble Marquis, and had there • fore fixed on to morrow for that purpofe. But as hearing evidence was certainly taking the queftion into confederation, be could have no objeaion to the Hon. Gentleman proceeding in his evidence to-mor row, if he fo withal it. AMIRICAN INTERCOUR3III DILL. Lord TEMPLE then moved the Order of the Day for the [mond reading of the American Intercourfe Bill. Mr. ROSE, in a fpeech of great length, urged a variety of arguments againft the Bill. He cantend ed that the Britith Merchants were both able and willing to carry on the trade in Britith (hips, provided they were fupplied with convoys. During . the whole of the period, from the clofe of the American to the commencement of the late war, the Planters were fupplied with provifions and lumber by the Britith Merchants. In 1793 the deviation from this courfe firft began, and continued increafing during the whole of the lan war. The Governors of the Well- India iflands were then authorifed to fufpend, from time to time, the Navigation Laws, as they might deem it neceffaty ; but were made refponfible for every fuch furpenfion. Sold regulations were alto laid down for preventing the introduaion of German linens and India goods in America bottoms, and for confining their trade entirely to lumber and provi (ions. But the prefent Bill granted them greater ad T vantages than they had enjoyed under the various fufpentions. It gave the Americans an exclufive right to the trade, and thus prevented that free com petition which might other wife take place. It would alfo operate as a complete futpention of the Naviga tion Laws, in the event of war, to the end of time. During the nine years of peace immediately following the American war, the Weft India Itlaods were corn. pletely fupplied by Britith merchants; and this coun try employed in the trade 903 !hips, carrying to the amount of a eo,ooo tons, and navigated by a propor tionable number of (cameo. In the courfe of the late was, the number of (hips was reduced to 137, and in 'Soo, our (hare in the carrying trade had de clined fo much as to be perfectly trifling. The (hip ping intereft of this country required now every Cup port and encouragement from the Houfe. Many of cur trading (hips were now lying unemployed, and rotting in our docks, which might be profitably en gaged in this trade, if their owners were encouraged and proteaed by means of convoys. He had never approved even of the fufpenfion of the Navigation Laws ; but he confidered the prefent meafure as much more pernicious, and as nriking at the root of that fyitem by which our naval preponderance was (upported. It was, indeed, only defigned for the period of war, but it would be difficult, at the con clufion of peace, to tactic it from the hand of the Americans, and tellorc it to the (hip owners of this country ; and he ventured to predit, that the Ame ricans would, in no long time, become alfo the carriers of our fugar. For all thefe reafons, he hoped that the Houfe would appoint a Committee of Enquiry into the fubjea, to enable the merchants concerned in the trade to 'late their cafe more fully than could poffibly be done by Counfel at the Bar, in a confinency with the other buGnefs before the Houfe. This en quiry would only require a delay of a few days, and he thought, in a cafe fo highly interefling to the (hip owners and merchants of this country, fuch a requett was by no means unreafonable. He would therefore move, that the Bill be read this day fenitight. Lord TEMPLE thought it rather hard, after the (nbjed of this Will had already been fo thorong. . debated, and after the Houfe had agreed that the Petitioners againft the Bill fhould he heard by their Counfel this day, that thole Gentlemen fhould have ' no Counfel ready, and that thole who brought for ward the Bill fhould now be called upon to withdraw it, and to let the regulation it propofed Rand merely upon the fpur of exigcncy. The complaint urged by the Ship Owners wad, that the prole lion of their rights, under the Navigation Aft, fhould be placed exclufively under the direaion of his Majefty in Coun cil, indeed of being left at the difcretion of the Go vernors of the Weft India Hands, where it had hither to in effed remained, and been fo repeatedly violated. This was rather an extraordinary complaint : but he would be to know how thole Governors could be judges of what was tranfadling in this country with refpea to the limply of thofe Iflands, or how they could know what cargoes were (hipped, or what ci:n• voys were upon the fin from this country for their accommodation, when, upon the flighted appearance of exigency, they mould be importuned to throw open Their ports to American veffels, for the attainment of (applies. Under this Bill, it would become the duty of his Majedy's Milifters vigilantly to anticipate, and timely to provide for the neceflities of thole Mandl. and it would be time enough for the Governors to affitme the refponfibility of the Navigation Laws. when the - negligence of his Majeßy's Mmillers fhould plate them in an emergency that Ihould warrant fuch an alumption. As to the other general topics upon which the Bill had already been fo frequently oppofed, it appeared to him, that they had been amply refuted, and et was unneceffary for him to detain the Houfe . with offering any further arguments upon the fubjea. Sir C. PRICE declared that after the molt anxious inquiry as to the effects to be produced by the Bill, it was the opinion of that refpea able body of the fhip ing intereft for whom he appeared, that the Bill would be produ&ive of the moil mifchicvous effees. It would have the neceffary confequence, too, of throwing many of our feamen into the fervice of America; where they would eafily procure them felves to be fereened under certificates of their being American Citizens. All he willied was, that the Bill fhould go to a Committee up Claim He was about to conclude with a motion to this effed, when ighl II Mr. ROSE explained that he had already, with the fame objeft, moved that the Bill be read a fecond time this day fennight. Sir WILLIAM YOUNG fupported the Bill, in a fpeech of confiderable length. He (hewed, that the exports of Britith produce and manufactures to Ame rica, in the lad year, was upwards of nine millions Reeling; very great part of which was given, and fairly and with good policy, to American (hips, its order to promote the advantages of our manufac tures, which were certainly as much entitled to pro tedion as our (hipping. Had thole goods been con fined to Britith bottoms, the fate would not ever have approached the extent jolt mentioned ; befidea, the value would have been loaded with the expence of convoy, and the market uncertain. But he would afk why thofe fhip.owners, who were fo very anxious for a monopoly in fupplying our Well India colonies with American produce, did not endeavour to obtain part of this trade of nine millions ? Sir WM. CURTIS pledged hinsfelf to prove, if the Bill was fuffered to go to a Committee up (lairs, ' that it mutt be ruinous to the Britith flip ink, and that, if Government would (enure to the Briuth (hip ' owners the protedion of the Navigation Laws, by doling the Welt India ports %dolt foreign fhipping, they would engage to find Brittfh (hip owners enough to carry fupplies to thofe ports. ' Sir FRANCIS BARING argued, that it would be impoffible to carry on that trade in Britith !hipping by fo very circuitous a route, with fuch an enormous charge of freightage, as mutt render it extremely dii advantageous to the colonies. The (hips mutt go out from thence to America in ballaft, as the Americans would neceffarily with to import the cargoes for their own confumption in their own flips; and having obtained their cargoes of lhingles, !laves, lumber, and provifions, in America, they would have to pro. teed to the Weft Indies ; and then they mull come home in handl, as they could obtain no cargoes there, which were always fecured to the regular fhips. Mr. Alderman PRINSEP had no objedion to leaving the exercife of a difcretion with Minifters, convinced that they would not abufe it. These were, however, claufes in the Bill which alarmed him. One in particular, where the importation into the Welt India itlands was extended to all goods whatever, and to manufattura a word which he thought ought to be omitted, as a ll the Wands could require under the Bill was lumber. By another claufe, a liberty of ex. portation was given, extending to fitgars, &c. which be thought ought to be omitted. if thefe alterations were underllotad to be agreed to, he fhonld not ob j•dt to the Bill, otherwife he mutt oppofe its further progrefs. Lord TEMPLE had no objedion to modify the Bill in the Committee according to this fuggeffion. Mr. PERCEVAL, at great length, went over his former objedions to the Bill, which he confidered wholly unnecefffiry ; and betides, he begged leave to exprefs Come doubts of the propriety of plating fuck implicit reliance in the difcretion of his Majefty's pre fent Minifters, as he , held now in his hand an inftru ment figned by one of thole Minifters, a Right Hon. Secretary of State for the Foreign Department, three months ago, permitting the opening of thofe ports at ,„ any period during the coutfe of the war. If, there- " fore, fuch an exercife of Minillerial difcretion was affumed three months before it was legalized by a Bill, to what length, he would alk, had not the Houle a right to apprehend it would be carried when fanc tinned by an Aft of Parliament ? If his Majefty's Mi niflers had any difpolition floating in their minds to relax thofe Navigation Laws, upon which fo much of the maritime glory, flrength, and profperity of this country was founded; if fuch a ptojeft had entered into the terms of any negotiation or difcufliou in which they were engaged with America (in which country fo thong a difpofi.ion to quat rd with England had of late been pretty manifeß) ; how very impolitic was it, jolt at this moment, to bring forward filch a Bill as this, which would (hew to the world that his Majef ty's prefent Minifters did not fat quite fo high a value upon thofe Navigation Laws, as had always heretofore been avowed by their predeceffors, and that they were not inexorably averfe to relax or abridge them, but that they held them fo cheap as to be ready, without much difficulty, to difpenfe with their opera tion, thus teaching the unfriendly power with whom