Star. — London, England, 1812-12-09 00:00:00

BATH—AND BRISTOL CANAL AND BRISTOL WATER-WORKS. NOTICE is hereby given, That a General Quar terly Meetirg of the Committee of Management of the /BATH and BRISTOL CANAL and BRISTOL WATER WORKS, will be held at the LONDON Corr st-noost, Ludgate- Hill, London, on TIIVRODAY, the 17th day of this instant De- somber, at Eleven of the Clock in the Forenoon. WARD and MERRIMAN, Principal Clerks to the said Company of Proprietors. Marlborough, Dec. 8, 181::. PARLMMENTARr PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF LORDS, DECEMBEtt 8. The hearing on the Writ of Error Case, the East-India Com pany .. certain Rectors in London and others, respecting a Tythe Question, which stood fur this day, was postponed till Monday next. Their Lordships then adjourned for some time during pleasure. Immediately on the resuming of the House, Lord ELLmsBOROUGH presented a Bill to explain and amend the Insolvent Debtors' Bill of last Session; part of which his Lordship described as found to be materially defective, and prin. tipsily in what respected the provisions relative to debtors, the amount of whose debts exceeded two thousand pounds. With respect to these, the powers of the Judicial Barristers who were to be appointed by the respective Courts of Law were far from dearly defined, and in some points of view they fell short of what was found to be necessary. The remedial Bill which be now proposed would go to give those Barristers, so appointed, the powers of administering an oath; and also to cause prisoners for debt to be brought before them, oh their warrants, in the counties of Middlesex and Surrey ; and with respect to other parts of the kingdom, by writs of halvai retpus. Provision was also made that the decisions of the Judicial Barristers should be anal; and farther, that the properties of debtors of such descrip don should be vested, for the purposes of the Act, in the Clerks Of the Peace. The Bill contained some subordinate provisions for remedying defects in the original Bill, which were adverted to by the Noble and Learned Lord. He then presented the Bill, Which, under the above title, was forthwith read a first time. A Message was sent, agreeably to their Lordships' cider of last night, to the Commons, requesting copies of the Reports of their Committees, appointed to enquire into the delays attending the decisions on the suits in the High Court of Chancery ; and which, on the return of the Messengers, were presented by them to the House, and ordered to lie on the table. The Report of the Vice-Chancellor's Bill was taken irito con ideration, and agreed to by the House.—Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. On the motion of the CHANCILLOR of the Excurgunt, the House resolved itself into a Committee on the Sugar Brewery Bill.—ThQ Resolutions were read and agreed to. Mr. CROKER moved for leave to bring in a Bin to amend got this Nll Mewed. declaring Bank paper and gold of equal value, the price of gold was e€ 4 14s. per ounce, and Bank paper was consequently depre ciated 20 per cent. The Act now in force would expire next February, and the Right Honourable Gentleman, who had begun when gold was J£4 101. per ounce, and got the Bill renewed when it was £e4 14s. per ounce, brought forward again the same measure when the price of gold that day was Jes ss. and the market in paper money and Bank paper in consequence depreciated 35 per cent. It was at this time, and under such circumstances, that the Right Honourable Gentleman had face enough to come gravely forward with such a measure, and even to appear 'surprised that a disposition should be found in the House to discuss its propriety. Before they proceeded farther, he wished to know if the Right Honourable Gentleman still thought gold and Bank paper of equal value ? The law declared them to be so, and in consequence it was not common for a per son to enter a shop with a Bank note and a guinea, and say ; how far will this go, and how far this ?—as he who did so would be secured and tried for a mis demeanour ; but if the law were repealed to-morrow, the difference would at once be seen, and found to be to the amount he had stated: From what had fallen from the Chancellor of the Exchequer the other night, he supposed he was rather shaken in his opinion, when he found his Jew friend, or whatever he was, wanting 255. each for his guineas. He cl:d not know what heavy guineas would fetch, but a friend of his, a few evenings ago, had a few light guineas to dispose of, arid, in his presence, he sold them ; and to a man who had to make a profit of them again, and received *1 7s. 2d. for each. Did the Chancellor of the Exchequer mean to say the light guinea was better than a good guinea ? that the proprietor of the one should have such an advantage over the holder of the other ? Why was the proprietor of the heavy guinea to be so persecuted, that he must either hoard his gold, Or part with his guinea for 7s. less than its value ? Why was he not allowed to bring it, as he might every other article of his property, into the market, and sell it for what it might be worth ? He then went on to descant on the injustice of this bill is it affected the public creditors, and those who had granted long leases, as he contended these persons lost 35 per cent. of what they wjre entitled to, and he knew of no party benefited by it but the Bank Company. They had been told in 1797, not to pay in specie ;- and in 1811, they were told, Your paper is as good as gold, go on." , They had an interest in keeping paper in circulation, instead of gold, and had divided among them through it, in hard cash, six million pounds sterling in bonuses. He wished the House 'to consider the consequences of this system to the public Creditor and the Stockholder. The increa sing depreciation of Bank paper made him anxious, that a new inquiry should be made into the causes of the high price of the precious metals. He thought it was desirable that the House should pause before they again enacted this law, and considered if, in. stead of this, they ought not to adopt an opposite line of conduct, suffer this to expire, and repeal those laws which had been made to give it effect. He thought it extremely improper, to call upon the House to pledge itself to this measure. It was also unnecessary, as there would be sufficient time after the holidays, when many Membera: nowahsert would have an opportunity of being present. Under these circumstances he would move that the second reading should be postponed till the 3d of February . Mr. BRAND spike against tl.c Bill,. and con tended, that while gold w.is not allowed to pass for its value, it would be withheld by those who pos sessed it. He repeated and supported many of the arguments urged by the last Speaker, and asserted, high price of specie and depreciation of paper, to be synonymous terms. This Bill had driven gold out of the market, when before it came in competition with paper. If this Bill were not passed, and the de preciation of paper fairly acknowledged, gold, he had no doubt, would immediately appear.—(Hear, hear.) He denied that the Bank had gained all the advan tages set - forth by the Honourable Gentleraan (Mr. Creevey), and had no doubt, but if less connected with the Guyer:anent, it would have ample means of meeting all demands upon it. To the present Bill he must object at any time, but he thought to press it would be most indecorous at present. Lord A. HAMILTON opposed the Bill, and wished to know if the ,depreciation of paper money was not now admitted, by what test Ministers would be content that it should be tried? an Act passed in the last Session, respecting the intercourse be tween tilt islands of St. Domingo and Jamaka.—Leave given.— The Bill was then read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow. The Household Amendment Bill was read a first time, and or dered to be read a second time on Thursday next. The Malt Duties Bill was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow. A Message from the Lords requested this House to communi cate the Reports of the 18th June, 1811; and 13th June, 1812, respecting suits in Chancery, to their Lordships. The Reports were ordered to be communicated, and, the Messengers were in formed of the same. Mr. Rost NSQ ta presented a copy of the Order in Council, au thorising the exportation of certain goods from, and the importa tion into the West India Islands. He also gave notice, that on Thursday next lie would move for leave to bring in a Bill lot the isulemnification of persons acting under the said order. Lord PA LMERSTON, in presenting a Petition from the Uni versity of Cambridge, against the Catholic Claims, took occasion to state, in contradiction to the rumours tha had gone abroad, that six days bad been allowed to the non-rt.sidents to attend the convocation, winch was twice the time usually allowed. The Petition was read, and ordered to lie on the Table, A similar Petition was presented from the Recorder,Aldermen, and Burgesses of grantham. Ordered to lie on the Table. The SPEAKEft acquainted the House, that he bad received s letter from the Deputy Clerk of the Crown in Ireland, contain 'lns a Petition, complaining of an undue return of a Memberto serve for the town and county of Galway. The Petition, which was from John Juice and others, was then read, and ordered to be taken into consideration with the other Petitions against the same return, on the 1 ith of February. Mr. LOCKHART rose, pursuant to notice, to move for leave to bring in a Bill to prevent the Trustees of Parish property from granting long and improvident leases. After explaining what, in his opinion, were improvident, and what long leases, he stated it to be his intention to pro; es;e, that the Trustees should not be able to grant a lease without the concurrence of the Bishop of the diocese in the term for which it was granted; and he also would propose, that it should be imperative upon the Trustees, to give a public notice when leases of grounds were to be granted, which would r toduce a competition that would have the effect of making the lands lett for their value. Leave was given to Win in the Bill. • '1 be Starch Bill went through a Committee, the report of *licit was ordered to be received to morrow. The House went into a Committee on the Malt Act, in which the Chairman was instructed to move for leave to bring in a Bill to alter aid amend tbe said Act.—The Honse resumed, and en the motion of Mr. Ix ant uprou , leave was given to bring in the Bill. The Ht.use went into a-Committee on the Chocolate Act, in which it was resolved, that the Chairman should move-for leave to bring in a fill for allowing an additional drawback. 7he House went into a Committee on the Customs Consoli dation Act, in which several resolutions were moved for altering the drawbacks un Spanish Wines, &c.—The Report of the Com mittee was ordered to be received to morrow. Mr. LUSHINGI ON brought up a Report of the Committee on the Prince Regent's Message, respecting the Grant to the , Marquis of Wain - von. Mr. CALCRAF did not ;iv to oppose the grant ;on the contrary, he . spbscribed to it in the most unqualified manner, and thought np reward could be too great tor the services f the Marquis of Wellington.—The Resoltrion was agreed to Mem. ewe. The Rt port of the Conunittge of Supply was brought up and agreed to. Leave was given to bring in a Bill purauant to the Resolution for grat ti• g £lOO,OOO to purchase lands 'to be attached to the title of Wellington. - It was ordered that the House should to-morrow resolve itself Soto a Committee of Wayi and Means. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER directed the att. ntion of the House to the necessity of the measure now before them, and made several observations upon its origin. The idea of a depre ciation in the currency was, Fe remarked, of an ear lier date than the'Bullion Committee, since Lord King had introduced the subject in the House of Lords, so far back as the year 1801. In the year 1811, that Noble Verson, whom he was ready to acquit of any other intention than that of practically proving the justice of his theory, had resorted to a step, which rendered legislative interference indispensible tot the protection of the tenantry of the country. They had also the evidence of Mr, Monck, on the same side of the qvi'stion, who said he would not accept of paper at the same rate of value as gold. The reason of which was obvious—Mr. Menck was a coiner of local tokens, and for his purposes gold or, silver was much more useful than paper. With re-, gard to the practical question, he put it to any one of the Bullion Committee, to say, if it would be wise' to cause the Bank w resume its payments in specie, at this period ? and if not, would it be expedient to pass a law, as they had formerly proposed, to fix the resumption of cash payments at any specific time, the circumstances of mhich they could not foresee ?I He had at that time pointed out to the satisfaction' of the majority of the House, that similar rises in the price of the precious metals had taken place when' there was no paper currency at all, and when there was a paper currency convertible into its nominal value in money. This proved that the rise slid not depend on the depreciation of the paper currency.— It was true, as asserted on the other side, that gold bad advanced in price within the last year; and the argument they would draw from this was, that the circulation of paper had increased, and consequently its worth diminished. Now, the case was not so ; an this fact afforded another argument in confirma ; tion of the fallacy of their reasoning. For lie part, he fowl(' a sufficient cause for the rise of gold in the ' GOLD COIN BILL. On the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moving t' e Order of the Day, for the second reading of the Gold Coin Bill, Mr. WHITBREAD moved that certain Resolu tions of the House respecting the value of Bank Pa per, as compared with gold, which were cone to in the bullion discussion, should be read. The Resolutions were accordingly read by the Clerk. . Mr. CREEVEY, with the view he had of the ntiority of this Bill, could not allow it to-pass its se cond reading, without stating some of his objections to it. This Act was one of the consequences of the Bullion Committee, appointed two years ago, to en qttire into the high price of Gold. At that time it was said Gold was Je4 10s. the ounce. The Bank Proprietors could not think of purchasing it till it came down to their standard, which was £3 17s. per ounce. These being the actual and the Mint prices of gold, Bank paper was at that period depreciated 15 per cent. Mr. Homer, when endeavouring to .• that Bank paper was depreciited, brought for nostrum, and proposed that thE Bank yelled to resume its payments in specie In opposition to this, the Chancellor t proposed his nostrum, which was that in public estimation, one pound Bank paper was equal to a guinea.— ' Honourable Gentleman last Session nude' the pressure of the timer, and by De the same year was returned to the B k vast aUgrnentation of der foreign expenditure ; and still morkin the total interruption of the supplies of circulationa l l ed g ed , c o o f u l th d e n not a b s n e k e the circulation again reduced. From this it wa s mille t? o f dtrenib ted that to o th a e ny depreciation exceuve an --and thu s the preciens metals from South America, which in itself was sufficient to account for the advance upon those metals in the market. The circumstances of , present year were also somewhat remarkable. He also defended the Bank from the charge of ter the debates of last Session, the price of bullion , fusion in their discounts, and issuing money for St: remained for some time pretty steady ; but of late it own profits. The Bill was neither wished for by had risen very suddenly, to the extent stated by the Government, nor the Bank, which wished no by the Honourable Qentleman opposite. It had so risen on protection for their Notes than the confidence ° - of th e the opening of the intercourse with Russia, whence People. It was rendered necessary by the toes an excessive demand had occasioned aesimilar rise all taken by the Nobleman already so often alluded t over Europe. The nostrum of the Bullion Costimit- By t h e Restriction Bill of 1797, th e Landlord was alluded over tee was to resume payments in cash ; but where was protected, but th e T enant l e f t to vexat i on and oppres it to be got ? The mines of America were stopped. sion. His effects might be tak en f or non - payment in and the balance of trade was against us with every a coin he could by no me a n s procure , and when sold other country. It appeared then, that we must either the same cause, operating, and purchasers bein g se , have sacrificed our political prospects, withdrawn fused wh o c o u ld not b u y w i t h go ld, hi s stock would be our army from the Continent, and have surrendered disposed of infinitely under its real value. Was not the hopes of Europe ; or we must, for the present, such a case of hardship to be guarded against ) H e have continued the Bank restrictions. Happily for would certainly give the Bill his support, for if such our character, honour, and greatness, the latter alter- an example as he had mentioned, were to be followed, native had been adopted. The Right Honourable lorto be left possible bribe law, the utmost f • con usien Gentleman then went into a justification of his Re- and distress would be the result. solutions recorded last Session, and contended that I Mr. HENRY THORNTON supported the pp' t the paper of the Bank of England was, for all legal nions announced by 'lie Bullion Co mm i ttee , and was -L. purposes, equivalent to coin ; though certainly not so •ih favour of opening the Bank p rov i s i ona ll y, at asp , to those who wished to melt it down, or make it the ; cific p er i o d. H e ac k now l e d ge d i t would be hasstr-t; subject of foreign trade, which, however, was and had • limit their issues, if the exchanges could be rectified I long been, contrary to the laws of the -land.— i an d t h e p r i ce o f go ld otherwise diminished. ' }l et h al —Could it have been possible to enforce these penal proceeded to point out the advantages to the cone laws vigilantly and perfectly, gold would have had munity arising out of gloater issues. It gate ease I , no other value than paper of the same denomination, 1 speculation, and to the furnishing of loans and hki s and the only difference between them was, that the money for the public. h also favoured born :met g s. one could be converted into bullion, the other could th oug h i t presse d h ar d upon rea l property, and tatect not. The anomaly of light guineas had been much those w:io were possessed of capital, by decreasing animadverted on, but this was no new case; there their interest. It was injurious to landlords, and in were abundant instances in our history, of light guinea s f avour o f t h e f armer , through wit= it became of being more valuable than standard coin, long before advantage to the country. It was also beneficial to the Bank restrictions were ever thought of. The the nation, in paying its annual 26 or SO millions to enormous profits of the Bank had also been dwelt the National Creditors. He agreed that the rise of upon : to this he would bear testimony, that the Bank gold was in a considerable degree owing to the cis,. was an unwilling party to those measures whence the cumstances of the world, and the state of oar force profits accrued, and which were forced upon it by on the Peninsula.: but the principle of the current the Government of the country. The Bank had ever medium was as much an invasion of real property as evinced a desire to be released from these restrictions, if the Government actually took so much from the and the preparations it made for resuming payments Proprietors. We were getting into a paper currency, in specie were a sufficient proof of its readiness so to ' without reference to the corresponding value and do, when it could be permitted consistently with the test of the precious metals. He had thought that, public good. The practical question now was, whe. when they got to 30 per cent. of depreciation, Gen ther the period had come, when they could safely tlemen would be alarmed, but nothing would have give up the safeguards that had been imposed for the that effect. He professed he did not want any sud, preservation of our metallic currency, and to protect den remedy to be attempted in the present vibrating the public generally from individual vexation and state of Europe, and was willing to wait the probate, oppression ? All that the public wanted was to go lity of the opening of the Continental markets. On on quietly with the currency they were used to ; but the subject of local tokens, he asked, how the circa. this, it was in the power of any one to disturb, unless lating medium would be supplied were they put a the present law was passed to protect debtors from stop to ? and concluded by stating, that he was wil, the exaction of payments in a medium, which it was ling to suffer the Bill to pass, though he would rather out of their power to obtain. The act had arisen out have wished further time had been allowed to recon. of the provocation of one individual, but for whom . sider it. they might have been quiet yet, and the necessity for I Mr.W. KEENE thought, thet if the present state the law never have been raised. It was now abso- 'of Europe were duly considered, the House would lutely indispensible to protect the subject from grie- • agree with him in thinking, that had it not been for voui oppression ; and he submitted that there were ' the Bill we should never - have been able to continue stronger reasons for its continuance than even for its our operations on the Continent. On this ground, being originally passed. I therefore, he would support the Bill. Mr. PONSONBY expressed his surprise at some Lord FOLKSTONE thought that there vrasgreat of the positions advanced by the Right Hon. Gen- cause for the House to consider well before they tleman, and at his persevering to recommend the con. agreed finally to concur in the measure now prom. tinuance of a law ulna, directly contradicted his own ed to them, and that particular attention should be Resolutions. To skew this, he contended that if pa- paid to what regarded Local Tokens, before thisßill per was equivalent to gold, as stated in the third reso- was passed. However, upon due consideration of the lution, there could be no ground for this Act to de- circumstances of the case, he proposed, that the Bill Clare that which was undeniable. But if a pound should be allowed to pass for a limited time ;—and note and a shilling were equivalent to a guinea, how thus, that after the Christmas recess, Parliament came it to be necessary to prohibit a landlord from might again consider the matter More fully, particu. insisting on his tenant paying him in gold ? He larly what related to the state of the currency, besides, could not comprehend how it was possible for the ' the other :netters connected with the Bill. On this Right Hon. Gentleman to advance an assertion of • ground he wished that his Hon. Friend (bir.Creevey) this sort, and to say he had no doubt of this equi- bad withdrawn his Amendment. valency. Had it subsisted at all times, or did it sub-1 Mt. HUSKISSON, who had been alluded to is' sist now ? Would a man give a guinea for a pound the course of the debate, excused his entering on the note and a shilling ? How then could it be said they subject in this stage of the question, on account of were equivalent ? But there was no difficulty before ill health, but approved, in the mean time, of der the depreciation existed, 'and therefore he maintained' second reading of the Bill. that the resolution was false. The Right Honour-1 On : the question being put on the fi rst Amendmeet, able Gentleman had attributed th e di ff erence to the . Mr. CREEVEY wished to know, before the cies• non-importation of gold and silver from South Ame- tion was put, whether Ministers would accede to the rica ; but this, if true, would apply equally to all proposal of his Noble Friend, and agree to have d Europe. Would the Right Hon. Gentleman say that Bill passed for a short period 1 the price had risen 35 per cent. in France, as it bad Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that several done in this country, or that gold bore the same pro. branches of the present question must remain for dist portion to the French Bank paper which it did to ours? cussion on some future occasion, but was not aware But it was equal for all lawful purposes--of this there of any circumstances which mild possibly hippo was no test, and they could not resort to fire to pro. within the limited period which had been raentionot duce it. He contended that the Bill of last Session that could tend to render the present measure tie . was introduced to protect the resolution, arid at all necessary. events, could see no reason for pressing the present i Air. WHITBREAD thought that there should los Bill at this time. He wished to know what premium I more valid reasons assigned for the measure now iq was paid by Government on the bills transmitted tol question, than any which had been given by tile the Continent ; and asked the Chancellor of the Ex.; Right Honourable Gentleman (the Chancellor ofthe chequer across the table to furnish him with this in. Exchequer.) In fact, the Right Hon. Gentlemaik formation, which request not being complied with, he bad evaded the questions which had been put to tins coniplained much of the silence maintained on the and in giving his reasons for pressing th e weal" I * subject. He then enquired what was the reason of 1 now in question, had evaded any satisfactory State' the scarcity Af change, and the disappearance of sm a ll . ment, by entering into general details. He wished e silver coin throughout the country ? He believed' to reduce the Right Hon. Gentleman, adverscawiews • that even the trivate bankers in London were obliged to make him ashamed of his having been the memo to pay for accommodation in this respect, and that : of having an Act passed in direct opposition to ait ! the Bank of England had told them they could be solution of the House.. With regard to that part 0i • lai supplied as heretofore with silver currency. Did th e : the Act which went to protect the tenant ama . Right Hon. Gentlemantha t this state of! landlord ;on this matter he wished • to vi propose • things should last, and that no inquiry should be a l.l much injured author of the important question on dir : lowed till this Act was crammed down the throat of I subject (Lord King.) The proposal of Lord Sot ' the New Parliament ? Such conduct was indecent . was not, as it had been represented, an lams's , and mischievous, and he, for this reason, concurred hardship, by calling on the tenant to pay his fa", heartily in the Amendment that had been moved. gold, which it was no t possible for him to proall‘ Mr. MANNING noticed that the supply of change What Lord King meant was a sum in Bath .Ms .. xi had been discontinued for se/feral weeks by the bank, equivalent to the bullion price of gold which hi on account of the stop put to the importation of dol. I calculated. Lord King was not the only nook lays from South America ; but to shew how much I bad this in contemplation. He (Mr. Whitbread)! I ► had been done, he stated that within the last .fifteen many other landed proprietors who inclined to • months, nearly two millions had been actually issued the same measure ; and their reason was th i s, that 'in this way by the Bank. About a week ago the tenants had long leases, and at the same time • Directors had given orders for further issues, and these leases were granted, the rent was p were, as they ever had been, most de s i rous to accom . • to' the value which the produce of the lend eser .: modiste the public, in so far as was possible, from the to the value in gold. So that the value of • .quantity of silver in the market. H e th en a d verte d i ng i ncrease d,iwas NV t was but just, that if the meat „, to the paper in circulation, a nd as t h e returns were paid in gold,'it should be made in a sum v e •fr e ndt yet before the House, informed them that the notes equivalent to the market price of gad.- 'Bank-notes in circulation yesterday evening, amount- King had reason and law on his 'side, ind 4. iS, ed to only 22 millions , and a half.—(S ear , hear,) — law proceeded to do him violence. As to rheas* In July, 1810, the amount w as twenty - five millions; timation, nothing could be mote ludicrdgs -f .three millions of which, however, had lain in the draw- proposition stated by the Chancellor of tterVis era of country banker: l to preserve them from ii,akin4 quer. He (Mr. Vineittarq had 0111121114444 -.I prove that Bank sward his nostrui should bo compel its two years. In of the Etchequir - ter.etolutioo t. that o. m Ba the Right