Star. — London, England, 1812-03-20 00:00:00

Tess, without reserve, the impossibility of our uidt mg," &c. This language, he thought, could not - fairly be construed into a determination that the Noble subscribers would have no persons in the Ca binet, save those of their own selection and nomina tion—that they would sit in Cabinet with the person now a confidential adviser of the Prince Regent ! Without pretending to know exactly the minds of those Noble Lords, lie was inclined to suppose their meaning to be, that they would not continue to' act with the present Government, those continuing' as a Government ; that is, they would not agree to form in themselves an auxiliary Cabinet to those whose principles they did' not approve. Referring to a subsequent passage, he expressed his opinion that it codd not fairly be said from it that these Noble Lords would consent to yield up ofir most valuable maritime rights, to render America hostile to that Power with whoM we were contending. Such, in deed, may , possibly be the intention of these Noble persons, but until he should hear it asserted by them selves, he could never believe it possible—they could never act in a measure so incompatible with the line of conduct • they formerly held. With re gard to the question of Spain, it was in like manner asserted of them, that they meant to withdraw our armies from the peninsula. This he never could be lieve, nor that they would think of such 'a thing with. I out learning the opinion of that great man, whose , name he had already mentioned (Lord Wellington), who had evinced himself as mach a Statesman as he did a Warrior— whose physical valour was not ex ceeded by his moral courage. (Hear, hear.) —He ! would now proceed to consider the subject, as in ducing a firm persuasion of the necessity of a total change in the present governing system of the coun try ; and in the first place, snore especially with re spect to the affairs of Ireland. This part of the subject snore, emphatically evinced the necessity of a change in the confidential advisers of the Prince Regent.— In his firm conviction, the superior, the necessary polity would be, that Parliament should pass a reso lution, sanctioning the principle of taking into speedy consideration the Catholic claims ; and that after wards.every thing connected with arrangement or detail, could, cr should be conducted by the Execu .. tiye Government, so as that against the commence ment of the next Session of Parliament, something in the shape of a specific measure on the subject may be presented %. its consideration. Such , a mode of proceeding would not pledge Parliament to any thing I beyond that, to which he hoped there would be no difficulty of pledging them, namely, to a considera tion of the subject, and to leave the whole of the ar rangement and details in the hands of the Executive Government. This he thought would be the proper mode, and he conceived it to be what the Noble Lords contemplated; and not, as asserted of them, ' that they would, instanter, recommend a total aboli tion of all the laws applying to this part of the sub ject. This he could not conceive to be their mean ing ; and he must believe them to be inclined to the countenance of such regulations as may be sufficient for the Country and Parliament, as to the objects proper to be secured, and that their intention was to incorporate in such Bills as they may propose, such provisions as would be efficient to the complete security of such objects. On these various grounds, be was induced to hope that the expressed wishes of his Royal Highness may still be gratified, and the general wishes of the country gratified by the establishment of such an Administration as would be fitting and competent to conduct the affairs of the country, .so as to ward off. the pending cilamities, and to ensure its safety and prosperity. He was aware, that in the estimation of some Noble Lords he may be regarded as an ignoramus in politics, for entertaining such sentiments. He would request, however, that Noble Lords opposite would not in-. terpose their eloquence for the purpose of preventing a question upon that which he should have the ho nour to submit. And he had to conjure those Noble Lords and the House, that they would permit the Address to pass, and to take its chance with the Il lustrious Person. whom it invoked. Indeed, he was at a loss to conjecture upon what grounds it could consistently be opposed. They would hardly con tend that his Royal Highness did not express the wishes stated in his letter of the 13th of February, • which was the formation of an Administration of Government on a broad and liberal basis—or that they entertained such an opinion of themselves at • present, which his Royal Highness as avowedly did not think of them on the 13th of February. Now that they lost the co-operation of the commanding name, character, and talents of the Noble Marquis, they could not deny their Administration now stood upon a narrow basis. Before he sat down he would ob serve, that because his motion went to affect the exist ing Ministry, it may be regarded as an opposition mo tion. Against this inference, he would, in the name of truth, and of the country, most-solemnly protest. He begged to repeat it originated entirely with him self ; Noble Lords opposite had no right to impute to him a particle of ill will or hostility to them. He still retained his sentiments with respect to them , what he now advanced as regarding their administra • tion, was a sentiment entertained by the Prince Re. gent himself, when he expressed a wish to enlarge the basis of his administration. And at that time they posseised, what they had since lost, the assistance of that able and accomplished Minister, to whom he had more than once alluded. He was actuated merely - by a sense of public duty, and a wish to contribute, as far as in him lay, to avert those pending dangers, the alarming symptoms of which were every day _ and more developing. His Lordship concluded by moving . 1 hat an humble Address be presented told, Royal High ness the Prince Regent, to assure his Royal Highness, that hilst we must deeply deplore the unhappy continuance of his Majesty's indisposition, we entirely rely upon his Royal High .ness's wisdom and princely virtues, for vigorous and benefi cent exercise of those unrestricted powers wit:: which he is now - invested; and that his Royal Highness may depend upon our -Affectionate attachment, and our constant and zealous support in ;IA his meastares,for the maintenance of the honour of the nation abroad, and of its happiness and tranquillity at home. " Humbly to represent to his Royal Highness, that for the at tainment of these objects, it appears to ns to be essential that the Administration, to which his Royal Highness may be graciously pleased w commit the management of his affairs, slionki be so composed act() unite as far as possible, the confidence and good will of all classes of h is Majesty's subjects. " That in the present state of Ireland, it is, in onr opinion, im possible ti.at such general confidence and good will should be en jtiyed by any Administration.; he characterl,ticpriociple of whose domestic policy, as well as the bond of whore connection in office It uct only not to reconnurod, but w recut a fair andailnoriooste . - . . . . . ss eletilanuleil et thee* civil dhahllitlet ender Shah 11.11444% , illiss n years rrperienee, be bad never Immo stay limes Catholic subjects, to that pan of the united thedoes, strniabourt and of which they complain as most grimes and Oppressive. " That we therefore humbly express our anxious hope that his Royal Highness may yet, be enabled to form an Administration which, by conciliating the affections of all descriptions of the L munity, may must effectually call forth the entire resources 1 wor d u I skin so tinparliamentstry as for a Noble Lord to maki a eonalment on a Newspaper, account. ease-- The Marquis of LANSDOWNE ,ealled the Noble . and Learned Lord to order. With every respect for ' ,the Noble and Learned Lord, he must say that not a uttered by him had any reference to the ofthe United Kingdom, and niay afford to his Royal Highness,' Question of order on which his Noble Friend had been additional means of.conducting to a successful termination, a • war in which are involved the safety, honour, and prosperity o f interrupted. 'this country." I The LORD CHANCELLOR persevered in his On the question being put ; declaration, that he would always object to any re- Lord Viscount GRIMSTONE expressed his hope ferefice, in the debates Of that House, to the Prince ' their Lordships would pause and seriously reflect be- Regent. or to articles in newspapers. fore they agreed to the motion of the Noble Lord.— Lord GRIMSTONE then proceeded. He expa- L lt was one which, he thought, should be met with a tiated on the events which manifested the energy of decided negative. It appeared to him to impute the existing Administration; particularly the capture some degree of blame to his Royal Highness the i of the Mauritius, and of Java, and the expulsion of Prince Regent for• the measure in question. The the French from Portugal. Their efforts had been Noble Viscount was proceeding, when . I uniformly successful, and he was not one of those The Earl of LAUDERDALE rose to speak to a who could attribute uniform success to chance.— question of order. It was a principle in Parliamen- Under those circumstances, and being persuaded that tary discussions that the name of the person at the no wish was entertained in the country for a change head of the Government should not be introduced of Administration, he would move, as an amendment, with any view of influencing the debate. The Noble to omit all the words in the Address, after the word Viscount mid that some degree of calumny and ig indisposition," for the purpose of substituting blame was imputed to his Royal Highness on the oc- ' others which the Noble Lord read, and which were casion. It Nv as with pain he heard him so long : but to the following effect: he must say the Noble Baron had imputed the blame i "We beg leave to express to his Royal Highness our grateful only to the advisers of his Royal Highness; but here thanks for the wisdornand prudence with which he has exe n cased the Royal author ity ; and to assure his Royal Highness was an allegation of direct blame imputed to the, that we have observed with the greatest satlsraction the success illustrious Person at the head of the Government.— of his Majesty's arms during his Royal Highness's administra- This involved an attack against the established privi. • don of that authority, and the beneficial consequences which leges of the House, which went to prescribe that the ; have resulted from the assistance afforded by his Royal Highness name of the person at the head of the Executive Go- to his Ma j est y 's Mies ' I "We rely on his Royal Highness's promoting, by every means vetnment should not be introduced by any Member in his power, the interestsand glory of the Country, and the hap for the purpose of influencing in any shape the deli- piness of the People entrusted to his charge." berations of the House. Lord DARNLEY characterised the amendment The Earl of LIVERPOOL contended that his as a side wind, to get rid of his Noble Friend's mo- Noble Friend did not state that any blame was cast I tion. •In opposition to the observations of the Noble upon his Royal Highness eon the contrary, his Noble I Lords opposite, he conceived it to be strictly compe- Friend had expressly declared that the motion of the 1 tent to any Noble Lord to bring forward such a Noble Baron was not grounded on any public or oifi- question as the present, and particularly at such a cial proceeding, but on a private letter (Hoar, hear !) critical period. He would not attempt to paint the to his Royal Brother. dangers with which the country was threatened ; but Earl GREY, in allusion to the question of order, , it was evident all Europe was united under one head, said, that in a discussion in which his own political and with one arm, against her : and for aught he conduct was so deeply implicated, he must regret knew, at that very moment the only power in the that any introduction of the name of the Illustrious world which had hitherto been friendly to us, might Personage alluded to should take place, s on an occa- have declared hostilities. All these evils were sion of such peculiar importance. With his Noble attributable to that very Administrat:an on which Friend, he felt that nothing could be more inconsis- the Noble Mover of the Amendment had thought tent with the privileges of the House, or more fatal proper to pronounce an eulogium. But it was not to the freedom of debate, than an objection on the to our foreign relations alone that the attention of the principle that the motion may affect the character, House ought to be directed. Let them look also at the feelings, or the personal conduct of the individual home. I-le did not allude merely to the riots at at the head of the Government. He by no means Nottingham, however alarming, nor the apprehend understood, that the Noble Baron who proposed the ed scarcity which, he trusted, might be found not to address, had in any degree intended to apply his ob. exist, but to that most important consideration, the servations in the way the Noble Lord opposite had state of Ireland. Adverting to the observation of the asserted. The Noble Baron distinctly guarded him. Noble Mover of the Amendment, which had called self on that point, and had stated, that while speak- forth the able and animated animadversion of his ing of the public conduct of the Illustrious Head of Noble Friend, he asked whether it was to be tolera the Government, he never looked to any individual ted, that the name of the Sovereign should be made than the responsible advisers of the Crown, who, he use of in that Assembly as that Noble Lord had yen properly stated, were answerable for the political tured to use it ? He trusted that the House would conduct of that exalted person. This principle go. give him credit for the assurance, that even were his verned the deliberations of the British Legislature Royal Highness the Prince Regent in a less elevated in the best times of the Constitution. What the ' situation, no man would be more averse to impute Nobleßaron proposed, was, in fact, neither more nor blame to his Royal Highness than himself. He spoke less than a mode of expressing the sentiments of that only of his Royal Highness's advisers, and he main- House, that the existing Administration was not cal- tamed that they were deeply culpable who had ad culated to act with advantage for his Royal Highnsss vised his Royal Highness to write a letter, of which or the public. It went to cast no blame whatever only a small portion of the evils that must be conse upon that Illustrious Person—if so, it would be quent on it had yet sheen themselves. The greatest impossible at any time to move an Address for a of these was, the disappointment of the just hopes and change in the political advisers of the Crown. Upon expectations of the Catholics of Ireland. He said this principle, he.must contend, his Noble Friend was this because it was a notorious fact, that the per fully justified in interrupting the Noble Viscount.— son at the head of his Royal Highness's Government The assertion of the Noble Earl was in fact still more i had founded his political importance co a system of connected with the real principle of order, namely, intokraece, and on his declaration that he would ne ver accede to the Catholic Claims. If the letter of that the motion was founded upon no document, but upon a private letter. All he could understand as his Royal Highness were at all intelligible,; assured - strictly applicable to the real question before the ly meant that House was, that it was no official document. The Lord LIVERVOOL spoke to order. The sup question was in fact one which went to a considera- posed letter to which the Noble Lord had just refer tion of the measures of tke existing Government. He ,red, was not a document before the House. It was trusted, therefore, the House would proceed with the . not an act of State, or if an act of State, was not in discussion, were it only on the principle of so far as- such a situation that it could be commented upon in serting the undoubted privilege of Parliament. Parliament. As a private letter it could not bs l Lord BORRINGDON defied any Noble Lord to noticed. prove, that he had directly or indirectly attached the Lord HOLLAND agreed with the Noble Earl slightest bl tine to the Prince Regent. that ins Royal Highness's letter was not a document The LORD CHANCELLOR. thought the pre- before the House. But where did the Noble Ear: learn the doctrine that a Peer of Parliament must not sent an extremely delicate proceeding. He hoped he might be permitted to implore the attention of the , allude to any paper that w a s not regularly before the House to a few words on the subject. From the ! House as a document ? This was a monstrous pro. position. As well might Noble Lords be interdicted moment that an individual was vested by the Houses ! of Parliament, representing the realm, with the func- I from quoting from the Classics. Was Horace a do-, y tions of the Royal Authority, he thought it clear that Icument before the House, and was an Noble Lord the name of that individual ought to be mentioned ' to be prevented from citing passages from that Poet with preciselye confessed his astonishment when, on the same respect as the name of the because the House knew nothing of him ? (A laugh.) H Sovereign. If the Noble Lord still contended .that it was disor- a late occasion, a Peer of that House read a let-' derly to allude to any paper, the existence of which ter from a Newspaper, and then asked a Noble I was a matter of general notoriety, let him shew the Friend of his, if that letter was actually from his ! Parliamentary Order in which that prohibition was Royal Master? Such a proceeding, to say the least I expressed. of it, was most novel: and he would take the liberty I Lord MULGRAVE supported the objections of to say, that if any man in his Royal Highness's his Noble Friend to the reference to a paper which Councils had given an answer to such a question, he was not a document before the House, which was (the Lord Chancellor) would never have entered ; not a paper of state, but which merely purported to the Council-room with that individual again. He he a private letter from his Royal Highness to his ', was firmly persuaded— I brother. If the Noble Lord persisted in alluding to The Marquis of DOUGLAS spoke to order. He , this letter, he would take the sense of the House on put it to the Noble and Learned Lord, whether he the point of it, and endeavour to determine whether was confining himself to explanation? If not, he sub. the name of the Prince Regent should thus be bast. mined to the decision of the House how far the Noble died about ? and Learned Lord had a right to proceed. I Lord GREY wished the Noble Earl who had The LORD CHANCELLOR replied, that he called his Noble Friend to order had more accurately certainly had not been confining himself to expla. : defined his objection. If the Noble Earl meant to nation, not having before spoken. He was arguing say that ieewas disorderly to introduce the name of on the - general subject of debate, and he repeated the Regent for the purpose of influencing the debate, i that ' in that proposition he entirely agreed with him.—' ' Lord HOLLAND spoke to order. If there was Rut if the Noble Earl maintained that it was disor e ' one order of the House more clear than another, it derly in his Noble Friend, in illustration of a discus was that when a Noble Lord called another Noble sion like the present, to quote from a letter, in print, Lord to order, hesshould not himself be disorderly with the signature of the Prince Regent, although in doing so. The Noble and Learned Lord's obser- that letter was not immediately before the House, •vations were not at all to the point of order. from that proposition he must utterleedissent. Where • The LORD CHANCELLOR contended, that he would the Noble Earl find the 'Order of Parliament was strictly in order, and observed that he would in which such an allusion was interdicted ? The' never again act in a manner so unbefitting one who present question was not whether Ministers were re sat on the Woolsack, as to permit so much to be said sponsible for that letter e • When that consideration as he had recently permitted, without calling to order should come before the House, he would state his the Noble Lord by wham it was uttered. He did reasons for being convinced that they were so respon. not allude to the present debate, but to what had sible, and that tba 'Lion was actuoslitY made by taken place on a late occasion, and he declared that their advice. But Pg anat was before the House at that moment, %els to deterrnine wtedier . tie pbt toy Noble Lord had a right to cite a paper not before the House in the illustration of a preposition ? The fact was, that it was every day's practice. How many papers were there mentioned by the Nobl e Lords opposite, in debate, which were net documents before the. House ? For instance, in proposing t a. u k s to Lord Wellington, for his splendid services in the Peninsula (and no one entertained a higher opinios of the value of those services than himself),the Noble Earl had cited Lord Wellingtca's dispatche s ; yet those dispatches were not before the Hous-. H o w frequently were the Berlin and Milan Decrees se a . tioned in debate ? Yet those Decrees could never be produced as documents on the table. Thrrir nutoiiety was always considered a sufficient ground for a • ng upon them. Supposing the letter in question Were a private letter, yet as it was a matter of nesc s i ct . 7 , that it touched on topics of great public i nterest , hi s Noble Friend had a right to refer to it. -lithe moo tion before the House was tor the production at the letter, would not the Noble Mover have a rigkt to read it, in order to show that it was material Ito produce it ? Lord MULG RAVE was anxious tbat there sltonlA not be a repetition of the scandal of 1607 on the ia. guiry whether the pledge of his Majesty was ,costi. tnional or not ? lie repeated his objections to as, reference to the letter. Lord GREY declared that he v. a; yet to learn that the proceedings of 1801 were consid: red a Tits. lation of the order of Parliament. If the Nobk Lord meant that the publication of Cabnet Minutes was scandalous, that scandal was attributable to the Noble Lords opposite.. Lord DARNLEY resumed, and contended that he had a right to read not only the letter, but use whole of his paper which contained it, if he chose.. Did the Noble Lords opposite disclaim having ad vised the letter ? He knew how much they depend e d on their majorities, but nevertheless their political existence might yet be terminated by a breath. They had poisoned the Royal ear, and if they con:hated the advisers of the Crown, would be the ultimate de. stroyers both of the Prince and of the country. H e trusted that while it was yet time, the Prim ant the country would be saved from the evils which awaited them. At least no consideration should re , vent him from doing what he conceived to be his' duty on this important occasion. To revert to the main subject : His Royal Highness had been advisee to continue the Administration which bad sated under his Royal Father. What was this, but toimply that the Claims of the Catholics of Ireland were at be resisted, not only at present, but at all tiniest Under such circumstances, it was impossible for his Noble Friends, without a complete sacrifice of their principles, to return to the proposition which hid been made to them, any answer, bat that which they had returned.' In that answer his Noble Friends tfis. claimed all motives of personal exclusion. For his own part, he did not feel more attached to party than any Noble Lord in that House. He thou* he knew men of principle and.talent who ini&ht bo selected from all parties. To skew his impartiality, he expressed his regret that his Noble Friends had not guarded thems?lves in their reply hem the ins. potation which had 'peen thrown out *Oast it% of being disposed totally to abandon the cease 616 Peninsula. The recollection of that cause compella 'im to lament, that at such a moment the Ceanwis of the Sovereign should have lost the only mu sem shed a lustre upon those councils, and whose meads. ment to the cause of the Peninsda had hem • warmly and so repeatedly expressed. The** Lord concluded by declaring that he should loafer • the original Address. Lord MOUNTJOY declared k to be his "Wee, that the Regent's letter was dictated by a slam wish on the part of his Royal Highness to pits d parties for the benefit of the country. After axis positive refusal as that letter had experienced, brill not think that there was any opening for as Wren from the House on the subject. Lord ERSKINE expressed himself at aloes 0 conceive what breech of order had occurred is any reference to the Prince Regent's letter. Who a Noble Lord had asked the Minister whether the letter which was in general circulttion, purportiegw be that of the Prince Regent, though GO doehtio tated by his advisers, and containing nutter did* most important kind, was authentic—whea their+. nieter remained silent on the subject—but where hi Noble Friend had risen to say that he had actvf received and answered that letter, how was it pose* that any Noble Lord could be supposed sot take* complete liberty to refer to it in debate ? He repeated his belief that his Royal Highness bad bees whist& to write that letter. No man entertained Agnew respect for his Royal Highness than himself—aolnla would be more ready to accede to any wish doll Royal Highness might constitutionally express. Si there was one part of his Royal Highness's Wire which he was persuaded never came from himself.-- It was that in which he declared that he had op► dilections to indulge. His Royal Highness'seM, I life had been one of predilections. The mew d his Noble Friends he heartily approved. The nig in which that answer was couched were 16 : spectlul, and evinced no disinclinktiou le de which honour and principle would allow thin !s do in compliance with the Prince's wishie. 1.1 Noble Friend had been invited to form s ment, in conjunction with that existing. Vibow r a proposition was made to Statesmen of s . opinions to coalesce, it was a subject of ma d sideration. Different circumstances must Mad diff.rent decisions. The two MOS ree r t _jri most celebrate coalitions were that of folt• Lord North ; and subsequently that of Skov with Lord Grenville. Let the House circumstances of those periods. The great differences between Mr. Fox and Lord ded America. Lord North advocated cueruter, Mr. Fox objected to it. But it was not itatar potation of America, and therefore it 1 !" 1 ,Ir essential political difference was removed. tbs tl Nos* and Mr. Fox coolest/J. Nonvidigt fissiover, the union was foamed on hoscaseh r ciples, the people were hot pleased with it. lherefore' consequently unattended it effects. and ought to °pintas as a WarP;. any attempt to form a Cabinet in the sentiments of the nation at her to the latter coalition, the chf'' between Mr. Fox tad Lord."' ~..., , i . -, - -- Lrivivsm• r" . • • • rem tit tie 01 ITS VD Pic se I wis inu Cal mil and Fail tal *bi vhc )00d I _tail M wit] vicy can a tab at abol She 1619 • Q • tie thi _ dig of Ito COI NO $lO the •g' int 4 ten an ad} all the Tie toj {he' tint •_ 1] at Le, ex.l that N