Star. — London, England, 1830-12-10 00:00:00

, but in many cases there was no rent left at all for the landlord; the Committee on the Poor Laws was only confined to one body, but the inquiry sought for by the noble and learned lord would be productive of the greatest possible good. lie was satisfied with the truth of the re. marks made by that noble lord on the paper currency, the introduction C 1 which had added to the distress of the country; at the same time he did not hesitate to say, a papa currency introduced now, with proper security, would be of the greatest benefit. He should give the motion of the noble and learned lord his warm support. Earl STANHOPE contended that the Motion of the Noble and Lti.rned Lord wits not liable to the objections which had been umed against it ; it would in his (Earl Stanhope's) opinion eminently tend to promote those measures, which must ultimately be adopted if it were meant to secure happiness and prosperity to the country. The Noble Earl then at some length eulogised the present Ministers for their pm. fusions of rettenchment and refotm. With respect to the Corn Laws, lie should vote for their entire abolition, provided home corn was put in a situation to compete with foreign ; he was also in favour of an aboli. tton of the Malt Duty, the Hop Duty, and the Duty on British Spirits; at present, however, he should give the Noble and Learned Lord's ',lotion his support. Earl ROSEBERRY and Lord ELDON explained. hold RADNOR said lie should vote against the motion of the no. We Lord, from the multifarious subjects it embraced. With respect to parliamentary reform, he had sat the greater part of his life in the lower house of parliament, and had uniformly voted for it; and he did not hesitate to say that those Ministers of a former period, by whose operations the country had been lift in its present state, ought in some sense to be impeached. Lord TEYNIIA M rose to order. Earl STANHOPE then read the standing orders of the house,which enjoined that no sharp and personal attacks be made. Lord RADNOR resumed. He ought to have said that former Mi. ❑litters were responsible for having plunged the country into its present state. The Duke of WELLINGTON said, not having voted for a bill of inquiry last Parliament, it was not his intention to do so on the present occasion. He resisted inquiry last session, because he deemed it pre judicial to the interests of the country, and he was of the same opinion still ; the noble and learned lord in his speech had touched upon the question of finance, then the coinage of the country, its commerce, and manufactures, and even the use and abuse of machinery ; upon all these subjects it was impossible to have inquiry without involving the country ten times more than it was, and raising hopes which could not be gra tified ; the committee aittingabove stairs could gointo every point noticed in the noble lord's speech as effectually as any motion of his on the sub ject could effect. It was not his wish to extenuate aught of the dangers or distresses of the country. He must say, however, that they did not originate in the administration of drain by the last government. He had heard it whispered that his Majesty's late ministers were not sufficiently attentive to the disturbances which existed in some parts of the country. He should take that opportunity of stating, that from the tint period of their breaking out the greatest attention had been paid ; after the unfortunate occurrences abroad, in July and August, the people of this country, without understanding the facts of the case, thought of nothing but following the bad example, without being aware of the con. sequences. Notwithstanding the charges against the late Ministers tax ation by them bad been reduced 3,900,0001. trade had been improved, and the country was happy, with the exception of the few disturbed districts. jAfter a few,words across the table from Lord ELDON, Earl GREY observed, that what he had to say should be confined in a very narrow compass; he confesred he was not aware that discussion would have taken such a course ; he therefore did not think himself bound to go into every topic of the noble and learned lord's speech, em., bracing, as it did, the currency, the corn laws, machinery, and the en. lightened policy that labour requires the same protection as other de. scriptions of property, which meant that he wished a tax to be laid upon machinery, thereby enhancing prices still more. Into these, he (Earl Grey) did not at present mean to go. He certainly had said that he should not oppose any inquiry likely to lead to useful purposes ; to a committee on the poor laws with this view he had given his consent. He doubted the practicability of the noble and learned lord's motion—he regretted that be could sec no way through the maze of subjects with which he had charged his speech; many of these subjects, as all their Lordship's knew, were beyond the power of the Legislature. IVith re spect to the currency and the small notes, he thought the present was not the most judicious lime for agitating these questions ; so, also, with respect to the Corn Laws. He did not pretend to be free from weakness and faults, but if he knew any thing of himself, and he had considered the question of the Corn Laws he thought some protec tion ought to be afforded. He was rot one of those courageous persons that would throw open at once the trade in corn ; that was his opinion, and he was not ashamed to state it, although it might occasion unpopularity; continued changing. did no go od,i but hum ;he did not mean to say,how. ever, if circumstances permitted it, that he should never consider the question of the corn laws de novo, at present he was not inclined to entertain that subject. The noble and learned lord seems to think that the capital of the country is all locked up for no other purposes than that of the golden guineas being looked at. The noble lord opposite (King) had so well answered:the learned:lord on that subject, that It was unnecessary for him (Earl Grey) to say more on that point further than that capital was employed in loans and in every possible way. In op. posing the enquiry he had no factious opposition to offer, and he trusted that no such feeling would be attributed to him by the noble and learned lord ;* he did not like to look back, he would rather :look forward in the hOpe of good for the country ; and all the indulgence he looked for, was to be allowed to prosecute those plans of reform and retrenchment which would be submitted to Parliament, without being interrupted.— Ile was necessitated to vote against the motion of the noble and learned lord. Lord TETENAM and the Duke of NEWCASTLE opposed the motion. The Earl of FIFE said it was wrong to adopt any step that might hold out fallacious hopes to the country ; had the present motion been brought forward at the beginning of the Session he should have sup ported it. The Duke of RICHMOND was of opinion, that the Committee on the Poor Laws, sitting up stairs, would arrive at all the information required by the Ncble and Learned Lord. The Earl of CARNARVON opposed the motion, and said a few words in support of the chartered Banks of Scotland, observing, that a great boon would be conferred on England, if the banking were assi. inflated with that of Scotland. Earl DARNLEY and Lord CLIFFORD were opposed to the measure. After a few words from Earl Gaza', Lord ROSSLYN, and the Duke of RICHMOND, in explanation, Lord WYNFORD made a few remarks, and signified his intention of withdrawing the motion. It was, however, put from the woolsack. and negatived without a di• vision.—Adjoutoed at half-past eleven o'clock. HOUSE OE COMMONS, bac. 9. Mr.PLANTA moved for a new Wilt for St. Germaine, in the room of Sir H. HartHoge, who has accepted the Chiltern Hundreds.—Ordered. Sir J. OWEN presented six petitions from congregations in Pem broke, for the abolition of slavery. Mr. KEMP presented a similar petition from Sussex. Mt. PATTEN presented two similar petitions from Lancashire. Mr. BUCK presented petitions from Bideford and Exeter, for the repeal of the duty on coals. Mr. O'CONNELL presented a petition from a Chelsea pensioner, complaining of a deduction from his pension of 5 per cent; and from a Freeman of Clonmel, complaining that his Freedom had 'been refused. Mr. O'CONNELL presented a petition from 105 labourers of the county of Limerick, stating that they had been turned out of the land they had occupied for many years by the operation of the subletting act last year, when 2,000 acres of land, on which they lived, was let to four persons, with a clause to prevent his subletting even an acre to any labourer; and they should have perished in theditches but for the huma nity of a middleman, who let them at a high rent small quantities of land far their support. They prayed forrepeal of the subletting act, or that they might be transported to some country where they might obtain the means of subsistence by their labour. The honourable gent. presented two similar petitions from labourers in the county of Mayo and the county of Cork. The bon. gentleman presented a petition from live Catholic clergymen of Navan, in the county of Meath, complaining that all deserted children were brought up in the established religion. Lord KILLEEN hoped Government would, on an early day, give some explanation of the measures intended for the relief of Ireland. lie. O'CONNELL presented a petition from St. Michael's for $ re form in Parliament. He trusted no attempt would be made to delude the people on this important subject ; that not one rotten borough would be le ft , and that the electors would be protected by the vote by ballot. The Marquis of BLANDFORD trusted that no delay would take place in granting the reform. The delay of a single day was dan gerous. Mr. O'CONNELL then presented a petition from Ayrshire for re. farm, and said that if ministers made no declaration on the subject be fore Christmas, he would give notice of a motion. Those who resisted vote by ballot must intend, that some ministers influence should prevail OUT votes. Sir R.WILSON replied with indignation to this imputation : those who resisted vote by ballot were as honest as the bon. member. He re sisted vote by ballot from the sincerest conviction ; he considered it un favourable to purity of election. His was the opinion of the most core and honest man in North America. He should resist it and do his duty in spite of the dictation of the hon. member. Sir J. MACINTOSH took the oaths and his seat. Mr. RUTHVEN said, he was sorry to see the Hoo. Member (sir R. W.) who had so touch dilliculty to make up his mind on the Civil List, make up his mind so decid edly against the vote by ballot. Ho considered the only security to be a vote by ballot. Mr. PRYCE considered that Pullamentary Reform had been too leas delayed. Mr. O'CONNELL said that the Gallant General had shown equal wager and lack of argument. Hs would not interfere with his boast of I patriotism, but leave him to be his own trumpeter. He then presented petitions from the Association Meeting at the Rotunda, and from the ' Carpenters and Bookbinders of Dublin, for the repeal of the Union, and eight similar petitions from parishes in Ireland, fur the extension of the Galway franchise. Mr. CALCRAFT presented the Report of the Cork Election Com mittee. It stated that D. Callaghan, Esq. the sitting Member had been duly elected. Sir W. INGLEBY presented a petition from Mr. Cobbett for the re peal of the assessed taxes, and a reduction of tithes. Mr. O'GORMAN MAHON presented a petition from Kennyard, for the repeal of the union. He would throw himself on the indulgence of the house to complain of a system of injury inflicted on members of that house, by means of secret letters, which in this case could be brought home to a member of that house, by evidence at the bar. He con ceived it was perfectly in the power of every member of that house to impeach the conduct of any other member, but not by secret insinuations. He thought as a member of that house, he should not be doing his duty if he did not bring the subject before the House. It had lately been secretly imputed to him, that he had acted under the influence of the Treasury on a late occa sion. That was a fact he totally denied, and he equally asserted that the charge had been made by a member of that house. Deliberate false. hood had already been imputed to the member out of that house, he now called on him to come forward and prove the charge, or appear, as he must, in the eyes of those to whom he had made It. Mr. WARBURTON thought the hon. gentleman was quite out of order. Mr. O'GORMAN MAHON said, he had not used the terms allud. ed to by the hon. member in the house, but he thought it would be pusillanimous in him not to avow that he had used them out of the house. He was ready, now that the Duke of Wellington was out of power, to acknowledge that he felt the greatest gratitude to that illus trious man, who had given freedom to himself and his fellow Catholics of Ireland and England, and saved his country from all the horrors of a civil war. He lamented that the illustrious Duke, who had brought so much glory to England, and so much peace to Ireland, should have made the unfortunate declaration that had caused his withdrawal from his Ma jesty's councils. Had he not granted the boon of Emancipation, now that France had acquired her freedom, and Belgium asserted her independence, while Ireland was burning with discontent, and re ceiving subsidies from America—lnstead of now being greatly thankful for the boon they had received, Ireland would be thundering at their doors for her rights.—(Hear.) The Duke of Wellington had saved the country from all these evils; and he could not pass by the right hon. gentleman opposite (Sir R. Peel), who had nobly sacrificed all the power he possessed as the church.aseendancy idol, to give all his support to a measure that he deemed necessary for the welfare of his country.— (Hear, hear.) He felt gratitude for all these benefits, and never con. cealed it, nor ever would—and this was made the ground of calumny against him. He would now mention the fact that gave some appearance of plausibility to the accusation. On the night of the civil list ques tion, he (Mr. O'Gorman) sat between the hon. members for Middlesex and Westminster, and was determined to vote against Mi nisters. At nine o'clock he asked Mr. Hume whether he might go to dinner, and was told the debate would continue some hours; he went out, and was absent but forty minutes, but when he came he was shut out from the division.—There was one Member in the House (the Hon. Member for Waterton]) to whom nothing he had said could apply, for that Hon Gentleman had taken the trouble of fully acquainting him of the imputation. He came into the House determined to support mea. sures not men, and it was on this principle that he was glad to find him. self supporting the men in power, who bad always been the advocates of liberal principles. He was very grateful for the courtesy he had cape. rienced.---(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman presented a petition from a parish in Clare, praying that parishes in Ireland, that had no Protestant inhabitants, should be exempt from the payment of tithes. Mr. ELLICE moved for a new writ for the Borough of New. port, in the room of Bir John Doherty, who had Laceepted the Chil tern Hundred. GRAND JURY ASIRUMENTI. Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, the great Increase of Grand Jury Assessments in Ireland called for some legislative restraint for the pro- tection of the people. In the last year they amounted to upwards of 800,0001. according to the returns made, which it was known were less than the real amount. They were lev iedl by persons almost irrespon sible, and over whom the persons paying the rate had no controL He would now move certain resolutions respecting those levies, founded on reports of committees of the house ; after the adoption of which by the house, it would become necessary to take measures for the remedy of the evil. The right hon. gentleman moved a series of resolutions de claratory of the amount of Grand Jury Assessments in Ireland, at dif. ferent periods of time. Mr. M. FITZGERALD said it was wholly impossible for the grand juries of Ireland to exercise the power of taxation with which they are intrusted, with advantage to the people. The landholders of Ireland could not long endure the oppression of taxation under which they had long been suffering. (Meer.) The grand jury system was con demned even by grand juries themselves, and was, in fact, a hope. less system. T'he drain from Ireland by absentees was one under which no country on earth could prosper. As he could not compel the residence of proprietors, he would compel them to contribute from their property to the employment of the people. Poor laws in Ireland would only aggravate the evils under which the country was suffering. It was his intention, under the late Administra. don, to have submitted a plan for the employment of the peo ple of Ireland which was approved of by the Duke of Wellington. He felt the necessity of making an advance of capital for the improvement of Ireland and the employment of the people, which capital should be repaid, both principal and interest, by a tax on land, but certainly not to be paid by the occupying tenant. It had been his intention to give notice of a motion on the subject; but there was no open day until af ter the Christmas recess, and he was confident it was impossible long to delay its consideration. Ireland would continue to be a drain on England unless she were allowed to improve her condition out of her own resources. Sir JOHN WALSH said he felt that all Irish questions were English questions. He thought the employment of the people was a most important question to both countries. Mr. JAMES (RATTAN said, the grand juries of Ireland were ea anxious as any members of that house to perform their duty correctly. The system had existed in Ireland for above a century, and, though it required improvement, should be dealt with cautiously. The great evil of Ireland was absentees, and the house should be extremely cau date how they resorted to any measures that would Increase their numbers. FITZGERALD explained. Sir R. PEEL thought it would be better, before the house should affirm resolutions, that they should be printed, and a few days allowed for their consideration. He was not prepared to say that he did not concur in the resolutions ; but as they went to condemn the present system, before they were entered into, a new system ought to be pre pared. Mr. O'CONNELL approved of the suggestions which had been offer ed by the hon. baronet (Sir R. Peel) ; but he thought the principles of 1 1 his plan would require to be more directly defined. The hon. member concluded with giving his support to an alteration In the law, and he was favourable to the printing of the resolutions. Lord ALTHORP was convinced that the Grand Jury Law of Ire land required revision s • but he had to communicate to the house that the Chief Secretary of Irel and had a bill in a forward state of preration, which would embrace the purpose that had given rise to this d is cussion .—that of revising the law of Grand Juries. Mr. G. DAR SON commented at great length on the present law, and gave it as his opinion that the fault did not lie in the men, but in the system. Mr. WYSE and Mr. O'BRIEN expressed their opinions in a simi lar manner. Mr. S. RICE thought further discussion unnecessary, after the as surance of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that the question would be b roug ht forward in a practical shape. The hon. baronet who had proposed the resolutions, would then have the opportunity of establish ing his own principles. On that account he (Dlr. 8. Rice) would re commend the hon. baronet to withdraw his motion. Sir JOHN NEWPORT, after a few observations, withdrew bis motion accordingly. THE IMPORT OP STANHOPE._ Lord ALTHORi, in answer to a question regarding the Rectory of Stanhope, stated that the present Government were inimical to a plots. lity of offices in the church, and they had consequently come to the de termination not to issue the ad annuiendans on the late appointment.... (Loud cheering.) /ALARMS OT THI MHZ/TIT. Lord ALTHORP rose, persuant to notice, to move fora Committee. He did not anticipate that there would be any opposition to his motion, when be had explained the purposes and the principle upon which be proposed that a Committee should be appointed. The present Govern. meat had set out with avowed professions of economy and retrenchment; but it would be placing them in a delicate situation to require them to decide upon their own salaries, on which account he moved for a Com. mittee of the House, to convince the country that it was the honest inten tion of the Government to show an example in themselves, by submitting their own salaries for consideration, to be reduced. He would remark, however, that it might be indiscreet to di it reduction i n t hi s depart ment to such an extent as to render it chfficult to obtain as many persons as were necessary to fill the ollices--unless persons of large fortunes. Economy became, as it were, a secondary consideration where really important services were required lobe discharged. This it would be for the Committee to consider. Economy was what the country called for I but the country could not expect that any great retrenchment could be effected by the reductions in high offices of state; but Ministers were nevertheless determined to show the first example. The Noble Lord then stated that from the Conuniuee should he excluded every member who in any way was under the Government, and when We was stated he was co nv i nce d that there could be no objection to the measure. The noble hied con. eluded with moving for the appointment of a Select Committee, to in. quire into what reductions can be made in all salaries and emoluments of offices held dur ng the pleasure of the Crown, by walabsts Ist *lase house of parliament, and to report their opinion, and 0011411•5 ahem from to the house. Mr. BANSES said that when no great reduction was to be expected in that quarter, be thought that ministers, having set out upon princi ples of econom, might be expected to act otherwise in another quar ter. He wou ld allude to a question that had been put a few nights back. and which bad not yet been answered. If it was the intention of the government to remove from office Sir Anthony Hart, the present Lad Chancellor of Ireland ? He (Mr. Banks) knew that it was im portant for the good government of Ireland, that the person holding the seals of that country should have the full confidence and correspondence of the government of this country. But it was with regret that he ob. served, that for a political purpose, those principles of economy which Ministers had professed should be changed, and the country be bur thened with another retiring pension. Mr. G. DAWSON said, that besides the retirement of Sir Anthony Hart for political purposes, he (Mr. Dawson) was informed that a Chief Judge was to be removed for the same reason, who was as capable as any man for the duties of his office, so that the country would be burdened with two pensions. It had not yet been stated to the house what was the intention of government r eg arding the retiring pensions, and certainly the Chancellor of the Exchequer, being the responsible minister in that department, was the fittest person to Inform the house; and when the noble lord spoke to the house, of retrenchment, he was cer tainly bound to give some explanation, and he (Mr. D.) thought it re. quired a satisfactory answer. Lord ALTHORP rose and stated that with regard to the two ques tions, he had to reply to the first, relating to the Lord Chancellor of Ire land, and to state that no removal had taken place ; with regard to the Chief Baron, that he was about to retire; but that was no act of the Govern. ment, that it was his own choice, and that he had filled the situation for 26 years. The noble lord denied that the Government had made any professional appointments for their political friends, excepting that of the Lord Chancellor. But with regard to the Lord Chancellorship of Ireland it bad, up to the appointment of Sir A. Hart, been considered a political appointment, and it was still necessary that it should be a political office. Mr. H. SUMNER said, that as the Government appointed the mem bers of the committee, and would no doubt take care to put their friends in a majority, they would be responsible for its acts. Mr. D. W. HARVEY said, that if he thought it was the object to propose a cotninittee composed of their friends, there was no one who would have objected with more readiness than himself; but the spirit which had directed the formation of the committee was ate which would reach through the country ; it would be received as an earnest of prat. deal reform. In one thing he did not agree with the noble lord ; it was when he said that a great financial benefit might not be expected from retrenchment. When he looked to that invidious return lately made to the house, in which it appeared that the total of the salaries of front 1,000 to 10,000 equalled 2,000.0001. exceeding one-seventh of the an nual expenditure of the country, apart from the payment of the interest of the national debt ; when he looked to the nominal offices, which many of the salaries represented, he could notexpect less from an haw committee than a saving of 1,000,0001. per annum. There was another list, containing from the 2001. to the 1,0001. salaries, which would also offer a rich source of saving. With respect to the office of Chancellor, he wished the Equity Judges were made as unchangeable as those of the common law. - - _ _ _ _ Mr. H. TWISS said that he had always hoped, though economy had been carried in the last two years to as great an extent as the times would allow, that there would still remain the means of retrenchment. The Government, in making their present proposition, especially thus early, when they were unshackled by private engagements, had done a great service to the country. Above all, the public mind would now be disabused with respect to political remuneration, and something like a standard would be established to which, on future occasions, refer ence might be made, if ever the present unfortunate prejudices were to recur. He rejoiced that the Government had delegated toa Committee a duty which if any great reduction was to be effected, a new Govern ment could not have fulfilled without exciting feelings of ill-will. Lord J. RUSSELL trusted that when the arrangements of Govern ment were fully established, the economy introduced into the Govern anent of Ireland would be apparent. With respect to one subject to which the hon. member who had last spoke had alluded, he thought that it was not in the power of a committee, nor in that of the house, when it required retrenchment, to give full satisfaction to the public mind; as long as the great proportion of that house did not arrive there by a popular election, there would exist suspicions with respect to its motives. Until there was a solid, substantial, and at the same time temperate reform of that House, they could not allay the fenncat which existed on the subject of public appointments (hear.) Mr. K. DOUGLAS said, that though an advocate for reasonable retrenchment, he thought that the only permanent relief was :to be found in an augmentation of the productive industry. He was an advocate for retrenchment; but not to pay efficiently the public ser vices, was not the way to secure efficient men. He approved of the appointment of the Committee. Mr. JEPHSON said that the change which was about to take place in Ireland would be most unpopular. Sir F. BURDETT said, that he did not think there ever had been an administration which, in so short a time, had made so many amis. factory promises, and given such earnest of their intentions to fulfil them. He weed with an bon. member, that public servants should be well paid, and that men of talents should have an interest in serving the public. The present administration, however, stood on the ground of retrenchment, and they should proceed in it as far as possible. With respect to the present administration itself, it had his support; they had no longer a party administration, at one composed of an unnatural coalition, but an administration selected for their talents and for their cordial concurrence in a new and beneficial system. There was only one regret which he experienced. and that was, that an ho nourable baronet opposite was not included in it. With a liberal sovereign, and an able administration, there was no reason to despair ; there was reason to hope, on the contrary, that all the present evils would be speedily alleviated, and, with time, altogether retrieved. Mr. GOULBURN, after expressing his concurrence with the hon. Baronet in the opinion that public servants should be fairly paid, stated that when a Member of the Administrades he had endeavoured to bring forward what be thought salutary measure; and that now he was prepared, without ceasing, to mambo vigilantly the measures of a Government to some of the general principles of which he was strongly opposed, to give his support to such of their propositions as he thought beneficial. He concurred in the motion ' foe a Committee. Mt- LITTLETON said, that if any thing could surpass the plea sure which he had felt at the manly conduct of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, it was that which he had just experienced at the gentle. manly declaration of the right hon. member. With respect to the Administration of Ireland, the appointment of Lord Plunkett met his fullest approbation. Lord VALLETORT concurred in the motion for a Committee. Sir E. SUODEN said, that as the Lord Chancellor of Ireland bad not been appointed by the late Administration, but by Mr. Canning, it was matter of surprise to him, when he looked at the manner In which the present Government was constituted, that he should have been die. placed without any allegation of unfitness. When a Government, which made such professions of economy, began by making pensions of 4,0001. and 3,0001. to learned Judges, he hoped some more substantial reasons than any yet given would be offered. Lord PALMERSTON expressed his admiration of the Learned Gentleman's (Sir E. Sugden's) abilities; but he thought it was rather hard to answer a speech so decidedly without having beard it, to reply to and condemn arrangements which he had not heard. (Cheers.) With respect to the complaint about the Lord Chancellor of Ireland, he thought it was perfectly consistent, as the Government must necessarily have considerable communications, that a person should be appointed in whom the Government had the fullest confi dence. He could not but here express his satisfaction at the manner in which his noble friend's sentiments bad been received generally. He hence inferred that the Ministers bad the confidence of the house. They had succeeded to office at a time of p re:Lir di ffi culties; and it was therefore gratifying to know that the la and measures of the go vernment, as far as they were known, bad experienced the apptobation of the house : he also trusted that they would merit and have the sanc tion of the country. He might be excused for adding, that it was only so long as they had the confidence of the house and of the country, that they desired to retain their places. (Hear.) _ . Mr. CALC RAFT said, it would be insincere in him if he did not say, if there were the opportunity of getting the services of the noble and learned lord, they ought to be secured for the public. Not to se cure them, if there wets the opportunity, would be in some degree cal pable, especially as it was intimated that the new law appointments would be followed by savings. The noble lord (Palmerston) observed that the ministers had succeeded to office in times of very great diScul- ties. It certainly was true that affairs were not quite so smooth—(c laugh and hear)—as it might be wished that they should be ; but at the same time the noble lord ought to remember that they succeeded to office in times peculiarly favourable to the carrying into effect the measures and principles they contemplated. ( Hear, hear hear.).— That was the truth, and how much would th a t f avo ur a ble f eeling aid the frovernmonti! Had there for instance, ever been so strong a feeling 1 in favour of reform; did any man recollect any thing like it in this' . country ? It had laid a decided hold of the country. He would just add, that be would cheerfully support the governm e nt w h ere h e cou ld ; at the same time he should not hesitate to oppose them, if he disap proved of any of their =insures. With respect to the contemplated savings, he agr e ed with the sentiment of the hon. member for West. minute (Sir F. Burdett), that there were cuttings down and parings which were not called for by the country, namely, of the salaries of the minor persons In the government offices i the reduction he admitted, I ought to be extended to the larger offices. The great salaries were the salaries that ought to be reduced. He should be sorry 'to be on the committee—at the same time, he thought none of those who were in the enjoyment of large salaries ought to be *cod en such com mince. 'l'hat committee, he trusted, would not visit the subordinate offices with too much severity. He had seen suennit of Mee to know that there were many clerks who were by no embia los well paid ; many of their salaries were small, really hardly agleam ih e elee l tef living. Let it be remetnbered, that he was now sposkres i t the sub. ordinate clerks only. Mr. OEOROE DAMEN said, it was curious enough, that Si; A. Hut had been appointed by a ministry of width Lord Plonked, and some of the present ministers, formed a part. What had Sir A. done to forfeit confidence ? There was to be the same Lord Lieuten si . who was in Ireland when Sir A. Hart was appointed, and ytt they were the same men, Sir A. Hart was to be removed. Ther e vier ' to be savings—was Sir A. Hart against them ? Had nit A. Ilan tried ? If he acceded, then there would be a still greater saving, a „ ditional saving of 4,0001. a year. At present he saw no subject for gratulation; as yet there was neither explanation no r pretext to jo,ti,„ the removal of Sir A. Hart and the appointment of L or d Plunkeit ' Colonel SI BTHORP said, before the motion w as put he wish to ask some questions of the noble lord. He wished to learn %ll ther the o ffi ce of Comptroller of the Navy had been filled up ? A l ' whether the Second Clerk to the Council had been appointed whether there were to be a new Ambassador at Vi enna, at a cam, of 12,0001. a year, with an outfit ? His eonstituents wished t o ,4 the public servants well paid—but they desired that money should be squandered on those who rendered no public services. Lord A LTHORP replied, that as to the first question, he c ou l.l no . at present answer It. With respect to the second - question, the yei es ,' pleasure for the appointment of Mr. Bathurst Second Clerk of the Council had been taken ; that appointment, therefore, was not ow e b y the present ministers, but by their predecessors in office. The wily thing that the present could do was to reduce the salary ; i t h ad be reduced front 2,0001, to 1,2001. As to the third question he had ;,. reply that there was to be no change of ambassador at Vienna ; i!,.„ would be the same ambassador and the same salary. Mr, GOULBURN begged to observe that though the appointmat took place under the late administration, it sou their intention to h a „, reduced the salary, and they would have done so under arrangenun.. that would have been beneficial to the country. Mr. R. COLBURN thought that offices where there were efficient services ought not to be underpaid ; but as to sinecures they oupt rot to be regulated but abolished. Mr. LABOUCHERE wished to repeat a question put on a forme evening to the late Chancellor of the Exchequer, whether the pension• had not been granted by the late Ministers after they had virtually re signed their offices ? Mr. HOULBURN said the question had been very unnecessarily put ; there was a return on the table that would give the answer. The pensions in question were dated, it would be seen, on the 16:h of November. Mr. O'CONNELL said, with reference to the law appointmetts in - Ireland—where, unfortunately, all Judges were made political dr. racters—he would not express any opinion. He would wait till they were completed. Mr. JOHNSON trusted that the Ministers would act on the priced. plea they had avowed. The motion was then agreed to, and the Committee appointed. The following were of the Committee :—Lord Althorp, Mr. Gout. burn, Sir Henry Parnell, Sir Charles Wetherell, Mr. Lanky, Sir R. Vivian, Mr. Irvine, Sir J. Newport, Sir Robert Pei,, Mr. Hanka Sir G. Warrender, the Marquis of Ch a nd os , Sir H. Bur. bury, Mr. Baring, Mr. Hume, Mr. Kennedy, &c. The Committee to have power to send for persons, papers, and re. cords ; and five to be a quorum. Mr. HODGSON moved for various returns of persons who had taken up their freedoms in Reading and several other boroughs, to as. certain the expense of Stamp Duty; but after extended consecution as to the difficulty of making out the return, the motion was with. drawn. REGENCY BILL. Lord ALTHORP moved the second reading of the Regency Bill. He said he had great pleasure in expressing his approbation of the principle and provisions of the bill. It violated no principle of the constitution. The prerogatives were properly retained, for if they au, useful to the Sovereign they would be - requisite to the Regent. Sir C. WETHERELL thought there ought to be a clans: intro duced into the bill, declaring that the heiress presumptive would have by right succeeded to the crown, and was Queen. The ATTORNEY-GINRRAL, MT. FERGUSON, and Mr. CAMPBELL, declared such clause wholly unnecessary. Bill read a second time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow. BISHOP Or EXITEB.—DR. Lord ALTHORP gave notice that to-morrow he should mote fir copies of the correspondence and communications between Dr. Phil. pots and the Home Secretary. Mr. J. WOOD presented a petition from the Rev. Mr. Spence. fo r a National Synod, to investigate and re-adjust the affairs of the The returning orders and business having been disposed of, aid veral petitions in favour of Reform having been presented, the Poe e adjourned at Half-past Twelve o'clock. TER TURF. STATE OF THE ODDS.—BETTING ROOM, Dec. 10. DRUM 12 to I apt ;Lord Sligo's Bras-de-Fer IS to I Lord Jersey's Blunder colt 15 to 1 Lord Jersey's Fillagree colt 16 to 1 Mr. Chifney's Caleb 16 to 1 Mr. Beardsworth's Co!wick 20 to I Lord Exeter's Memos (taken freely) 20 to 1 Lord Exeter's Bohemian of to 1 Lord Verolam's Varennes colt 45 to 1 Duke of Grafton's Pastille colt 25 to 1 Colonel Udny's Antlope colt 30 to 1 Lord Jersey's Cobweb colt 30 to 1 Sir J. Shelley's Cressida colt 33 to 1 Mr. Houldsworth's Philip 10 to 1 --- Mr. Petra's Rattler 40 to 1 Mr. Vansittart's Slight Colt. The betting Sat and little change. The only horse backed to sal amount was }lamus. Nothing done in Oaks or St. Ledger. LdW REPORTS. COURT OF COMMON PLEAS, WEsTMIESTER, Dec. 9. Sittings after Term, before the Lord Chief Justice. WILLIS v. SCALES. This was an action brought by the plaintiff, who is a rate.colketor. against the defendant, a butcher, for having been called by him art. kited villain. The words were used in a public meeting held at the wish of Bt. Mary-le-Bow, and had reference to a deposition made In Willis in the case of " Bilton v. Scales." All the circumstances ;3i, been already thrice before the public under different shapes, and the ;e. suit alone of the present trial need be given —The Jury, after an hour'. deliberation, found a verdict for the detendant. SURREY SESSIONS, Dsc. 9. Thomas Mindus was indicted for robbing Mr. W. West of upwards of 41. in cash. On the 23d of November, some thieves robbed the pre. secutor of a gold watch, and escaped. On the following morning, tt e prisoner accosted the prosecutor, an d sa id if b e would ikconlp.r.y him. he would get him his watch. He did so, when he took the upporhaitY of mixing some atupifying drug in the liquor they were drinking, ara while the prosecutor was insensible, robbed him of his money. The Jury found him guilty, and he was sentenced to be transpotted :or life • POLICE REPORTS. GUILDHALL —.Eliza Cook RSS brought up, charged with stealing sable pelerine, value 21. 106. from her employer, Mr. Smith, furrier. No. 4, Gough.square. It appeared that in consequence of receiving an anonymous letter.and missing a valuable fur tippet on Blonds) , evening, a person was secrtt,d behind some boxes in one of the rooms on Wednesday afternoon. jug 3$ she went to tea ; the prisoner entered this room to depo4it some oid work, and after walking up and down two or three times, she took awn) the article she was now charged with stealing. A constable WAS imme. dlately sent for, and after she had quitted the back and secured, and the property found upon her. The prisoner, who is only eight een years o f age , was t hen fully committed. premises, she was brought 3 1 41111 . 801 0U011-STREET.-11Vil/ias Chester, who was on iVellass day examined on a charge of breaking machines in the neighbourhood of Salisbury, sou yesterday morning taken off by the constables, for the purpose of undergoir.g an examination before the local magistracy. We were informed that a letter has been received at this office twin a magistrate in the country, stating that the prisoner was known as a rag leader in his county (Hampshire), and that a good deal of evidence could be produced against him. THANES PoLicx.—Yesterday John Wapoheare, a master boot ma shoemaker, was charged with stealing a bag of silver, containing from the shop of Mr. Howse, pork-butcher, in Shadwell. Mr. Howse placed the bag of silver at the end of the courier.. and directly after the prisoner ente re d, a nd wu saved with a pound o f sausages ; after the prisoner left the shop, the bag was missing; Pr!' toner left his change on the scale. The prosecutor followed in the di rection. On Wednesday night the prisoner called again, and was S"'" into custody. Ile was remanded. MARRIED. At Willey Church, Shropshire, the Hoo. George Anson, second son of the late Viscount Anson, to the Hon. Isabella Elizabeth Annabelle' third daughter of the late Lord Forester. DIED. On the oth ult. Captain W. M. Godfrey, R.N. e ld est inn of P. frey, Esq. of East Bell/holt, Suffolk.—The 4th inst. P. lii'gout, Erol• of Woodtide, Aberdeenshire, aged 73.—Tbe 29th ult. at Ktdderna s " ter, G. Custance, L.q surgeon.—At Tunbridge Wells, on the 7th inst. Mrs. Warde, wife of - Mr. Wattle, of the Theatre Royal, Covent-garden' HIBH 'MATRA AT LONDON SLUDGE TOJIORROW 111. sr. 11. Wes lag 11 20) Afterneea ......•••• •11 Limbos t Primed and Yublished by Joni' Mania, al die Sias Orrics, N.. 1, Pickett play, Temple Her. II ~+, .11 'a