Star. — London, England, 1830-05-29 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAM ENT. HOUSE OF LORDS—FRIDAT. Lord KING presented a petition from Ashburton, county of Berne. arainst •Ibe East India Charter. •Severni other petitions on the same subject were presented. 800 DRAINING BILL. 'The order for the second reading of the Irish Bog Draining Bill -Was discharged, and fixed for a future day. THE DEPUTY PLACE ROD. The Earl of SHAFTESBURY informed the house that be had received a letter from Sir T. Tyrwhitt, Usher of the Black Lod, • stating that Mr. Quanne, the Deputy Usher, had resigned his si tuation, and appointed Mr. Pullman in his stead. noble earl observed, that Mr. Quanne and his father had discharged the office forty-three years. he should, therefore, move, that Mr. Quarme, in consequence of his long and meritorious service, be discharged from the once of Yeoman Usher, and recommended to his Majesty's most gracious bounty. The motion was accordingly put and agreed to. FREE TRADE. The Earl of MA LMESBURY rose to move for a document which could not, as he supposed, be denied by his majesty's govern. ment. The noble earl was desirous of obtaining the last Russian • Tariff of Customs, in which their lordships would plainly see the effects of the new system of reciprocity, by which Russian products found their way into this country to an extent never before known. The amount of Russian produce, imported into this country, during the last four years amounted to 12,000,0001. sterling. The amount of Russian produce imported in the three years previous to 1827, was about 8,000,000 L sterling ; so that the difference in favour of • Russia, was as twelve to eight. The amount of British mercban (lite imported into Russia, during the last four years, warabout 8,000,0001. During the same time the importations from Russia bad increased. Hemp, tallow, and grain, had flowed into this country in a continued stream. Russia had derived an advantage from this country, under the reciprocity system, which the noble earl really believed had enabled her to carry into effect many of her ambitious projects. He concluded by moving an address for a copy of the last Russian Tariff.—The motion was agreed to. PRINCE LEOPOLD AND GREECE. The Earl of ABERDEEN laid on the table the papers'contain ing the correspondence with his Royal Highness Prince Leopold, respecting the Sotereignty of Greece. Lord DURHAM begged to ask the noble Earl what was the date of the first letter submitted to Parliament on this occasion, and whe. ther the papers contained a memorial transmitted to the Senate of Greece by his Royal Highness Prince Leopold ? The Earl of ABERDEEN said, in consequence of the anxiety expressed by the noble lord, he had laid on the table all the papers, with the exception of letters which he received from Prince Leopold marked private. The letter to which the noble lord referred was a letter of the 21st of January. The memorial from his Royal High. nest Prince Leopold to the Senate of Greece, was the last article. Lord HOLLAND did not wish to make a captious objection, but he thought it unusual to return printed papers, which pur. ported to be manuscript. The papers were described to be copies of correspondence with Leopold, and he found only printed paters. The Earl of ABERDEEN considered it the practice to present papers by command of his Majesty, in print. He could have pro. sented them some time ago in manuscript, but the practice was to present such papers printed, for the convenience of their lordships. If the noble baron and the house objected to receive them in that form, he was ready to take back the printed copies, and give the manuscripts. Lord HOLLAND did not wish the noble earl to withdraw the papers, but still considered the practice to be a presentation of pa. pars in manuscript. A motion was generally made to have such papers printed. Earl BATHURST and the Earl of Haaftowirr expressed an opinion that It was convenient the papers should be printed. Lord ELLENBOROUGH thought the practice had beenro pre. sent papers in a written form, and move they be printed. Earl BATHURST then put an end to the discussion, which ap. peered futile, by moving the house do adjourn during pleasure. The LORD CHANCELLOR accor dingly adjourned the house. After a short time the house resumed. SLOW MAXUAL RILL. Sir R. PEEL, the CnawcaLLon of tne EXCHICQUIS, Sir A. G tArrT, and a numerous deputation of members from the Commas., brought up the Sign Manual Bill agreed to by the Commons. Sir A. GRANT also brought up the Greenwich Improvement Bill. The House then adjourned until twelve o'clock to-morrow, when their Lordships will attend divine service in Westminster Abbey, and rite Royal assent will be given by commission to the Bill to afford relief to his Majesty in affixing the Royal signature to in. struments. HOUSE OF COMMONS-FRIDAY. Mr. & RICE presented a petition from certain proprietors of Steam-vessels connected with Liverpool, praying to be beard by themselves or counsel, against tke Irish Graziers Steam-packet Com. pa Bill.—Ordered to lie on the table. Colonel LINDSAY moved the further consideration of the Re. port on the Perth Navigation Bill. Mr. RUBLE moved an amendment, to add to the Commissioners, to make them 29, instead of 26—the additional three to consist of Shipowners of Perth. The house divided on the amendment : the numbers were, For the amendment Against it s • 76 Majority against the amendment 17 Mr. G. W. WYNN peeaented a petition from the corporation of Dumbarton, complaining of the report on the Clyde navigation bill ; and praying that the same might be referred to an appeal committee. Mr. 11. DRUM MOND strongly opposed the motion. — Sir R. INGLIS supported the prayer of the petition. Mr. W. DUNDAS opposed the prayer of the petition. To agree to it would be estabhshing a precedent that would occasion constant appeals. Mr. SYKES was of opinion that substantial justice had been done by the committee. Sir T. FREE MANTLE considered that the committee of appeal might, with great propriety, be granted. Mr. J. CAMPBELL said he doubted not that the committee had acted with perfect upright motives; but as he thought that they had excee de d their powers, he .considered that the motion now prayed ought to be acquiesced in. Mr. C. W. WYNN replied. He considered that this was pre. cisely the case that was contemplated by the establishment of an Appeal Committee, to give satisfaction to dissatisfied parties. The gallery was then cleared for a division ; the numbers were. For the Appeal Committee.... 24 Against it--. l7 Majority in favour of it ORELCI-PAINCE LEOPOLD. •Sir R. PEEL presented papers, consisting of correspondence with .IPrince Leopold, relative to the sovereignty of Greece.—Ordered to be printed without any remarks having been made on the papers. THE _IOTAL SIGN MANUAL. Sir R. PEEL moved that the house go into a committee on the Rol Sign Manual Rill. Lord ALT HORP said that the securities provided in the bill were sullicient ; but if any renewal of the bill were required, be thought there ought to be evidence adduced at the bar in sup port of it. Lord J. RUSSELL agreed in this opinion ; evidence ought to be adduced, if the continuation of the bill were required. The existing securities he admitted were sufficient Mr. C. W. WYNN considered that the bill could not be viewed with too much jealousy, to prevent it from being drawn into precedent. The amendments to the bill made in another place, es mecially that which required the royal acquiescence to be delivered "by word of mouth," were sufficient. He considered the securities, for the present bill, to be ample enough. The bill then went through a committee. On the report being presented, Sir R. PEEL observed, that similar precaution against forgery of the sign manul would exist, as was provided in the regency bill. ' Report agreed to, bill read a third time and passed, and Sir R. ' Peel required to the same back to the lords. Mr. HuTCHIN presented petitions from Tipperary, against the Apothecaries' regulations of Dublin, and against the Vestry Act —.Ordered to be printed. Mr. BRAMSTON presented a petition from Colchester, against ' the Importation of foreign flour. Sir M. S. STEWART presented a petition from the writers of . Dundee, in favour of the Bill for the improvement of the adminis tration of justice in Scotland. Mr. FERGUSON approved of the trial by Jury In Scotland. Mr. R. GRANT asked whether the learned lord intended to pro. pose, during the present Session, any measure respecting the police a the Boroughs of Soodend. The Will) ADVOCATE replied, that he experienced so much delay and difficulty in the measures that he had brought forward Otis session, that he must postpone any other measure till next session. Petitioll ordered to be printed. Mr. SADLER poen ted a petition from Moue, county of West mesth, fee the intion of poor laws into Ireland.--Pedieed to A: IN. . G. MOORE presented various petitions from Dublin demi duty on newsmen, ewellery, he.— wen NM the Lord u Mayor sad Carnation of Dublin, Slid Calattlos or Smiths, Sesames, end Goldsmiths of Dublin generally, agabsst the /imposed assimilation of stamp duties He agreed in the prayer of all the petitions; he should support them on all possible occasions, and he could not but hope that the ministers would be induced to relinquish the measure. Mr. H. GRATTAN supported the petition with satisfaction and regret—he regretted that such a measure should be threatened. The measure was not one of assimilation, but of annihilation; it would be to follow the measure of relief by one to pick the pockets of Ire land. There never was so unanimous an opinion against any mea sure as there was against this. He observed, that there were now 14,800 paupers in Dublin; and yet such was the moment selected to increase the taxation of devoted Ireland. Mr. BRIGHT expressed his astonishment at the delay observed in bringing in the bill ; lie supposed it was to make the bill ss plain that "he who runs may raid." He trusted it would not be full of vexatious or incomprehensible clauses. All the threepenny and sixpenny stamps ought to be repealed. After a few words from Mr. H. (IRATTAN, the petition was ordered to be printed. Mr. 0. MOORE presented a petition from the Rev. Sir Harcourt Lees, of Blackrock, near Dublin, against the Roman Catholic Be quest Bill. •TAGE+COACME6. Sir T. ACLAND brought in a bill for the farther protection of stage-coach proprietors against losses by parcels.—The bill was read • first time. Mr. WODEIIOUSE presented a petition from the farmers of Ailsworth, Suffolk, complaining of the duty on coshr; also two pe titions from two places in Suffolk, against any increase of duty on corn spirits and rum. RALE or sacs BILL. WODRHOUSE gave notice, on the part of Sir Edward Rnatchbull, that on the consideration of the Report of the Sale of Beer Bill, he should move that the bill he limited to three years, and that persona taking out licences should not allow beer to be consumed on their premises. YEW POLICE. Sir R. VYVYAN said, that he hoped the system of New Police would not be extended to other parishes until the subject was fur ther considered by Parliament. He-wished to know if it was a fact that, within a short time, the New Police had been increased to the extent of 6;000 men additional, and he should therefore movelor a return of the numbers of men and their emoluments, and the orders issued to them by the Secretary of State. Mr. S. RICE said, that he thought the change was one of the most beneficial description, and the more the country felt and ex perienced its advantages, the more they would rejoice at the change which had been effected. Mr. LENNAItD admitted, that this force was as well conducted as such a force could be, but be still objected to it on constitutional grounds, and he feared the time might come when the house would regret having ever placed such power in the hands of a minister, armed and disciplined as it was like any military force, and nearly as effective. The motion was then agreed to. risitzky BOUNTIES. Mr. DUNCOMBEprs;entea a Peiiiion - inom the East Riding of Yorkshire, praying &continuance of the bounties on the deep sea fisheries. The hon. member asked if ministers intended to continue these bounties. Mr. BERRIES said it was not the intention of his majesty's go. vernment to continue the bounty on the taking and curing of fish ; but .a part of the establishment would be continued for a limited time with a reduced expenditure. Sir R. VYV YAN expressed his regret at this information, having entertained an opinion in common with the panics interested that government woulticontinue the bounty. Mr. W. Shl ITH thought that one shilling out of four might be retained with advantage. Mr.-PENDARVIS thought that if bounties were justifiable at all they were so in the case of the fisheries, and he wished that a part at all events of the bounty might be retained. Mr. DUNCOMBE said, he was a friend to economy, but still in this case be thought the bounties ought to be continued. The petition was then ordered to be printed. RECOVERY OF SMALL. DEBTS. Mr. LENNARD asked if any steps were to be taken for passing a bill for the better recovery of small debts ? Mr. Seeretary PEEL said, that It was an important subject, but before it could be brought in another bill must be carried into execution, in order to remove the difficulties which stood in the way, on account of certain interests which impeded the adoption of such a mama If the question of compensation could he satisfactorily settled, be was prepared either to bring in a bill upon the subject himself, or to support the more extended bill of his boa and learned Mend the member for Kuaresborough. ASSESSED TA XL'S. Mr. Ald. WA ITHMAN presented a petition from the inhabi tants of the parish of St. Lute against the house and window.tax.— These taxes admitted of great abuse, as proof of which he would just state the fact, that there had be en surcharged taxes within the last year to the extent of 160,0001. Airy BR WHIT supported the prayer of the petition, on the ground that it pressed unequally—for a mail tradesman in a town paid more in taxes than did the gentleman in a large house in the country.— The removal of these would be felt as a benefit by the whole of the community. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, he meant to introduce a MU on the subject of the composition of the assessed taxes after the holidays. Mr. 1110NCIE m* the assessed taxes were most oppressive in their operation, and were also unequal in the way in which they were levied. Mr. O'CONNELL presented a petition from Whitechurch, in Cork, stating that the petitioners were anxious to return an honest man to the house—and they therefore prayed for the adoption of the rote by ballot; also a petitionsfrom Naha, in Scotland, praying for parliamentary reform. Mr. BRIGHT presented a petition from certain millers in Bristol, praying for a reduction of the duty on foreign flour. Mr. Secretary PEEL said, beau not in the house when returns were moved for relative to the new police; and he therefore now :Telto say, that every poasible information should- be given ; order to render these returns the more complete, he should move for returns of the extent of district and population which the various divisions of police had to protect. PORGEBY BILL. Lord J. RUSSELL asked when the Forgery Bill was likely to be fixed for discussion Mr. Secretary •PEEL said, that u the house would sit to-morrow, he trusted to be enabled then to fix a day. re to a question from Mr. PENDARVIS, Mr. &astray PEEL said, that be had no connection whatever with the Brighton police, which were not under the controul of his department in any way whatever. Mr. W. small presented a petition against slavery In the British colonies, from Rochester and Chatham. 31r.W. SMITH also presented a petition from the city of Nor. with, complaining of general distress from the pressure of taxation, and praying for a reduction of the public expenditure, and the repeal of taxes on coals, candles, and other articles. CITY IIZPRESZNTATIOIf. Dr. LUSHINOTOii pre7ieniTtlaP;tiii; from the freemen of resident in Castle-Ha card Ward, complaining that they were ved of the right of voting for the return of re. representatives to that house, unless they were also liverymen. He was of opinion that the petitioners ought to have the power of voting for representatives In parliament. Mr. Alderman WOOD said, the effect would be to increase the number of electors, to which he had no objection ; nor did he be. lieve that any of his colleagues had any objection to it either. The petition was ordered to be printed. Lad J. RUSSELL his motion upon the state of the representation until the ith of June. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that the chaplain of the house Amid preach before the house to-morrow.— Agreed to. rTART WORK. Mr. O'CONNlCLEidi,herose for the purpose of asking for leave to bring in a bill for the reform of the Commons House of Pediment ; and although he felt by ao means very confident of success that night, yet he had the consolation of knowing that the principles of reform were ring amongst the people, and must eventually succeed as MI as to-morrow's sun would shine from the Heavens. It was not pleasant to him to be arraigning the oligarchical confederacy, by whom the rights of the people were usurped.; but he bad a duty to perform, which he was resolved to execute. His first object was to show that abuses existed in the representation, and if he failed in doing this, he was conscious that he must fail in making out his ease. His next ob. jest was to point outs remedy. In order to establish his first po. sition, be felt it would be unnecessary to enter into a discussion on the fact that might be assumed, that the constitution consisted of particle of and Commons. He could not ad m it that one of the popular part of the Constitution should be abated, for be felt there should be a regular reward for the laudable ambition of those tram whom the one great branch of power was so advantageously removed out of the reach of contention by the the of our constitution. On the other hand, b e revered his and be felt that the democratic principle was well balanced by the ly authority. It was for the right of constitutional repre sentation which he meant to contend. It was coeval with the people, and depended neither upon the king nor upon the peers. It was u him to prove ibis. It w as f or tlaoes who s u m p age those un do ubted righ ts , to prove the con- According to the principles id down by Judge Blackstose, the sovereignty an this country, as well as in every other, was in the people, and according to the same authority, the right of voting should be in all, except in those who were r situated as to render it unlikely that they could exercise a will of their own, uncontrolled by the authority of those who were in any shape plead over than. In bringing this subject before the bowie, he meant not to depart one iota from the British CAM. Whiting, but at the same time he would be satisfied with no. thing less than all of it. (Hear, bear.) Since he had entered that house he had heard that this person and that person were re turned by Lord this and Lord that; indeed, theta* wee notorious, for a petition formerly presented to the house stated that 249 members were returned to that house by peers—that 159 were re turned by commoners since become peers, besides those which was returned by means of government boroughs. It was then im. possible to deny the existence of these abuses, which were offered to be proved at the bar, though the offer was refused. It could not be denied that peen nominated and returned members to the house, and therefore it must be admitted that abuses existed in the ram sentatioa. It was declared, no less than 200 times, to be a high infringement of the :tits of the people, for any peer or prelate to interfere with the return of members to that house. It was, not withstanding, stated in the house, and the fact was notorious, — (hear, hear) that seats were sold like stalls in Smithfield—(hear); and one patriotic baronet had openly stated the sum Ire had given for his to a peer who was a minor. The seats in that house had a marketable and variable value, like any other commodity. If, then, one-half of the seats were bought, and the other half filled at the no- Manion of peers, how •was it possible to deny the existence of glaring abuses; and if they could not be denied, how was it pos sible to defend them ? The Irish representation was not so venalas the English, for there were only 19 out of 100 of the Irish members who were nominated by individuals. It might be said that the system melted well, but that assertion he would at once deny. lie could chew that the money of the people was turned against themselves, for no less than one hundred and eighty thousand pounds was spent in purchasing the votes of their representatives. In the case of lien. King, who held a situation which he was paid for by the money of the ple, he had an undeniable proof of his positices,•for the Galena! having dared to vote against Ministers, was dismissed from his situation, and no doubt but his successor would meet: with the same fate if he was not more careful in voting rather according to the wishes of Ministers than according to his own conscience. He admitted that formerly more members of that house were in the receipt of the public money than were now—he .admitted that the house was formerly more corrupt than it was at present; but then, if Ministers disposed of less money in this way, had they not much greater patronage at their command. (Hear. j The army, consisting of 100,000 men, the navy, the bar, the excise, and the countless other branches through which it was distributed, gave them a power of purchasing votes in that house fully equivalent to what they had lost by the diminution of pecuniary purchases.- -Repeated attempts had been made by legal men to effect a legal re. form ; but such were the oppositions which the system of abuse threw in the way, that every attempt, however well intended, and however zealously pursued, always ended in a monstrous abortion.— (Hear, hear.) What was the remedy? The remedy he had to propose was perfectly constitutional. Ile thought the dura tion of Parliament was too long, and he would propose to shorten it —(Hear.) He had no objection to triennial Parliaments. In early times the Parliaments were annual--by statute of Edward the Third, the Parliament was to be called together annually ; he knew therewas a dispute whether that meant the election of a new Parliament every year, or the annual meeting of the same Parlia ment; but he could not discuss the question. Ile did not wish to occupy the house with antiquarian research, but would take the duration fixed by the Act of William, about which there could be no dispute.--(Hear.)--The next remedy was an extension of the right of suffrage. Nothing could be more open, even to ridicule, than the present state of the qualification of electors. In England, a freehold of des. gave a vote for county members ; in Ireland, the qualification was 101. ; and in Scotland it was a feudal tenure-- He would propose that every man of full age, not tainted by crime, and in possession of his reason, should have a right to •vote. The king and peers were eaempurd from thentietif equality, and thew could be no other privileged class in the land. (Hear.) There was no distinztion of cast or colour amongst Englishmen—all had their right., and the vote by ballot would give security to its rm. dm. He thanked the house for their patient attention to an insig nificant individual. He moved that leave should be given to brit.g in a bill fur the effectual and radical reform of the representa tion of the people in the Commons Howe of Parliament.—(Hear.) Captain DUNDAS said exertions were making all over the court. try to prove that the House of Commons were every day becoming less mindful of its duty to the people. He would admit that the right of election throughout this kingdom was not the most uniform nor popular; but it was a system that had adapted itself to the wants of the people in all ages of our history. The rights of the people were admitted to be coeval with prerogative, and had, when necessary, been maintained by arms. The popular part of the community continued to exert its proper share in the legislation. He thought the proposal of the hon. member for Clare did not go far enough on his own principles, for as property was power it should go to prevent the accumulation of wealth in the hands of individuals ; he believed the hon. member would not object to such lmislation, but it would be wholly inconsistent with the existence ofthe monarchy; and he did not believe there were more than a dozen members in the house who would support it. He thought the passage of the Catholic relief bill was a proof of the popular feeling of the House of Commons. But as long as the aristocracy was considered a part of the Constitution, and possessed wealth, they would possess influence in elections ; nd though after such a reform as the hon. gent. proposed they might not exert that intba. wee as directly as at present, it would be exerted in a manner more brjurious to morals. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said the motion of the hoer. member placed him under some embarrassment. He had brought forward the question of reform till he despaired of success. The hon. and learned gentleman had proposed areform founded on three principles, triennial perllements, - universal suffrage., sod voting by ballot, to all of which be disagreed. He should therefore oppose the motion of the learned gentleman, but after that motion should be disposed of, be should submit a motion for reform on the principles he had always supported. The triennial duration of parliament was a • point that might be debated, and might be gmerally approved of; but voting by ballot, and universal suffrage, though it might ' answer in America, yet considering the existence of a monarchy and aristocracy, and the state of property in this country, he could not but fear that their co-existence must produce a collision which would end in a democratic goverment or an absolute mo narchye—(hear. hear.) He should now offer some observations on the resolutions for parliamentary reform which he meant to propose. The first would be to extend the basis of the representation.— Tbe want of representatives of the great manufacturing, and trading towns, was one of the greatest practical defects of the pre sent system. There were a number of manufacturing, trading, and populous towns, which he thought ought to be admitted to send representatives to that house. He would mention Manchester, Bit. mingham, Leeds, Sheffield, Masclesfield, Whitehaven, Sunderland, Cheltenham, and Brighton. Most of these were manufacturing and trading towns, and all wereporulons towns, and, he thought, should be represented. flesh° thought that Edinburgh, Glasgow, and Belfastobould be allowed to have a popular representation. The large counties, be also thought, should have additional representa tives, which be would propose should be given by a division of the counties into two parts, giving each part two representatives. This would make a large addition to the numbers of the house, and he would propose to keep the number to the present amount by taking off one representative from all those boroughs that had leas than 2500, inhabitants. We were now told, that we were not so corrupt as in the reign of George the First and Second, when there were 250 mem. beta of that House who bald places. He had looked into the divi sions ethos, days, and found•that the grants of the people's money wesoinuch monsfrugally made than at present. (Hear, heat). — From a comparison of the two periods,its was confident it was better for the people to live under the tamp parliament of that day, than under the - pure paclimenta*s pmeat don. In the administra tion of Sir R. Walpole, MAUL was mfficlent fee the military force of all the colonies, whisk was now scarcely sufficient for the lonian Islands. However mash we might boost of our superior pu rity, it was certain that perlimmat, in die time of Sir R. Walpole, was a more faithfulguardian ref the public purse than at present. This might be proved by the conduct a the government, who had, in the two last years, reduced the estimates 2,000,000 L If the house bad done Its duty, ft would keg Mat have re. dead the estimates much more than 2,000,0001. (Hear, bear.) He was aerate that the reform he was about to propose w ould not satisfy either the radical Edemas or those who opposed all reform ; but be conceived that the resolution which be had too were calculated to unite the people and the house, and to ye ml ceased effect to lthelr maths* In the cause of liberty. hon. and learned gentleman lied sequined himself with gran talent and temper, but he differed with him on prineipk„ and must therefore oppose the modes. • Mr..S.WORTLEY said, th e esm i Odle horn. and learned gent. had nothing *o es der in it from him. It was of the same ebnieeter as these be bed media plasm, mead had the game ob ject, vii. to excialeall iniemee d from the hewn of coin. mess. If universalise/nee meg we shell semi have a Ovvenment by a HmegaCeminene, instead of a Cenaltution King, Lords, and Comm. He malanbed that, Mammy km. portant occasions, it was the duty of the ve ma hi sp. position to the will of Mg constituents. In A i wee not universal in on dig stela, mid *se. thew li n i tt direct briberh which the want d Maier Wait pommy yet voting by ballot did not prevent Inlingneg being cussed in a enamor that was unknown to this country. Lord ALTHORP said, that the bon. and Wend spedemen's plan was CO: I CW in these three pointe-..m t hoedes p ee n e emete, chitties by and universal gaffing; no dangler anal tz: 'Willey arise from the Ant ; be should, Wa l den, mime s doe of it as he had ems en fanner occasions. This vespadagelesdee by ballot he *add give it bin vote alga ffie thus ming to the other point, universal soffisge, whisk mean Weir teem nor less than radical reform. Were the pies of the ilmengebie and lamed gentleman to give W the peep* tha inftsnes in the boos which they ought to enjoy, he should support even this put of his motion, for his opinion was, that not only one class but nay class in the country ought to be represented; but he was persuaded that would not be the tenth of what was termed univers a l ' ,de w ,. Of the hon. andlearned gentleman's three propositions he (Lord Althorp) agreed with two • with one he differ e d, sod i t ran so clue. oe was so identified with dm others , that , n the whole, he esulf not support the measure as it was to the house. Lord VA LLETORT end Mr. '0 ft IEN said a few woods in op. position to the motion. Mr. 11011 HOUSE said that he should trespau as little as few ble on the patience of the house ; he should at once say, that he should vote for the motion of the honourable and learned gentle. man; he had the precedent of a great man, now no more, tor his example ; he meant Mr. Fox, who again had Mr. Pitt a , his precedent in the year 178(i.—(Hear, hear.)—He sh ou ld quote the words of Mr. Fox on the s u b je ct o f eformation He stated thee , wheh they were no more they were well spoken of by the er. lightened part of the country ; but even of Fox, in his lifetimes was lie designated the enemy of the King, and t h e f ree i nterest, of the country, and who, night a ft er night, fighting in the cause of reform, was even in danger of being arrested as a dissatisfied person. Hon. gents. now on both sides of the house quoted Mr. Fox ; so n.uch for the advance of reform principles. (lieu) One thing was clear, that that was the best system of reform upon which the greatest number of reformers agreed ; now it would sl. pear, that for such a reform, or nearly such a reform as that pro. posed, one million and a half of persons had petitioned the house, in the years from 1817 to 18111; be was satisfied that without bJ. lot, there would be nothing like fair election, and that with it n o great harm would arise ; he should vote for the motion of the hot. and learned gentleman. Sir hOBRRT PEEL said that the subject before the house had been fairly exhausted on other occasions of a similar ca. Lure. He should, therefore, confine himself to the specific pro. positions before the house. The honourable and learned gentle. man stated in the outset that septennial parliaments were a usutps. tion of triennial ones. He denied that they were so ; but 11'114 were the fact, ft could not be relied on as a reason for return. ing again to them; but he was against a triennial parliamen t on another gtound, namely, the ground of expense. Then, in re . fermate to voting by ballot, he confessed his objections to that west confirmed by what he haeheard urged in its behalf. He doubted the policy of the measure—he thought it would afford a cover 6r hypocrisy, and prevent that free discussion of the merits of can. didates, which was so essential a right of the people. If the hen. gentleman means to say that he will mend the constitution by urn. versal suffrage, he (Sir R. Peel) denied that such would be the re. suit. In conclusion, lie said he could not think that there was the grievance made out which would warrant the opinion that a reform was required. Mr. BROUGHAM said he must oppose the motion, differing as he did from so large a portion of it, and the sentiments with which it was supported ' • hut he should support the motion of the nobl e lord. With the bulk of the promised resolutions be, nevertheless, agreed. The division of counties was, in some instances, adviseable. Nor could he agree in th e opinion th at; reform such as this would be despised by the reformers. The reformers were not so senseless. so narrow-minded, and so intolerant as to avow themselves dissatis. fled with such reform. They might not be fully satisfied with it, but they would not complain of it. (Hear, hear.) As to short. ening the duration of Parliament—if nothing else were done— he should view it as an evil; it would in reality increase the is. &trace of the crown. If with shortening the duration of Praha. cent, there were to be reform, that would lessen the expenses of elections, it would be beneficial.—( Hear.) He also differed on the subject of ballot. He had great doubt on the subject, and he spoke with some confidence because he had passed through four con tested election.. If the voters voted by ballot against their pre. mises, would not they be watched ? and if they were suspected —only suspected—would they not be oppressed by their land. lords ?--(Hear.) The hon. and learned gentleman said " hear; he supposed bad landlords, because otherwise the ballot would not be wanted. If they only became suspected, would not the landlords, supposing the tenants were not turned out of their farms, be pre vented from again attending the poUs ? To him the vote by ballot appeared to be most extravagant and chimerical—(Cheers.) It would be be still farther pernicious; it would create hypocrites, and snake our lives one continued lie.—(Cheers.) And could a nun be false for years, on one and one subject only : trust and credit he would not deserve. and would not receive.Thue were reasons for not doubting, but foe disbelieving in the efficacy of the ballot.—(Hear.) Mr. OI:ONNELL replied, it was remarkable that be was op posed by both sides; they had had an excellent debate between them, but they had touched anything but his motion. The amend ment bad been debated. Was that a fair way of meeting the qua. tion, of treating the principles of reform ? However, he would see y, that any reform that was proposed, be it ever so small, he would support ft. As to the evils of ballot, they were as Imaginary as they were facetious. He had been met by a by-battle that was not to be fought : every reformer ought to have supported his motion ' for the bill—(Hear, bar.)—He had proved his case of abuse—the only difference was as to the remedy. the gallery was then cleared for a division. The numbers For the modest Against Majority. Previously to the re-admission of strangers, the house MOW on Lord .1. Russell's resolutions. The numbers were-- For the motion Against it .. 213 Majority. The remaining orders having been disposed of, the boa's a+.• }slurried at Halfpast Three o'clock. The following are among the projects attributed to the Polignae Ministry, by the Parisian correspondent of morning paper : To assemble the Chambers, as proposed, on the 3d of August—to prepare a royal speech reproaching the last Chamber, and gently threatening the new one—re minding it of the fate of the old one, and of the deter mination of the King to dissolve the new Chamber should it vote an " insolent" Address, or attempt to refuse the Budget. As the first measure of the Session, to present the Budget, in case the Address should not be " insolent." If the Address should be " insolent," forthwith to dis solve the New Chamber. But if otherwise, then to dis cuss the Budget—and if rejected, to dissolve the Cham bers—if accepted, even though reduced in amount, to adjourn the Chambers until February. Should the Budget be refused en masse, or the Ad dress be insolent—to proceed to new elections —to 41e prive, by Royal Ordonnance, all electors of the right t vote by virtue of their patents, thus reducing most con siderably the number of voters, because thus depriving a great number of shopkeepers and traders of their quali fications, and consequently of their rite to vote. To make another Ordonnance, prohibiting the election of any Deputy who joined the Napoleon party during the 10° days in 1815—and even naming certain Members of the Extreme Gauche as ineligible. In order to provide for the expences of the State, and for " its surety," under the 14th Article of the Charter, which grants to the King the right of making Onion nances, to issue " Bons Itoyaux," or Exchequer Bills. and to levy all the indirect taxes by Ordonnance. In the event of resistance to the payment of indirect taxes, to enforce their payment by summary measures, and to appeal to Military Law ! To convoke the second new Chamber of Deputies for the month of December—to pursue the same line of con duct as that proposed to be adopted with the Chamber in August—and in the event of a renewed opposition to the Budget, to suspend the Charter—establish Military Lae —appeal to Foreign Powers—put down the Revolution by force, and eventually revive the Ckarter and form a new Constitution for France. The Supreme Court of Zurich recently condemned a fraudulent bankrupt to stand in the pillory for an hour, to be imprisoned twelve years, to lose his rights of citi zenship for life, and to pay with his fortune for the ex penses of the trial. The Gasettee of Prussia speaks of a custom-house officer, 112 years old, who has been in active service for 87 years, and still performs his duties in the most satis factory manner. Two young Arabs, about thirteen years old, have arrived at Geneva, where they have been sent by the Pacha of Egypt to ham watchmaking. 'rheas have been apprenticed to a watchmaker at Chahai I French village not far from Dordogne. .c was persuaded that tcr,ned universal suffrage. bra proposition s he (Lord differed, and it ran so clus., ; upon the whole, he couli need to the house. IEN said a few words Mop. Id trespau as little as pOste. hould at once say, that he urable and learned gentl e , at man, now no mo te , to , rho again had Mr. Pitt a, r, hear.)—He should quote reformation He stated the well spoken of by the er. rn of Fox, in his lifetimes :ing, and the free interest, ;lit, fighting in the cause of ; arrested as a dissotibfi e d re of the house quoted M e , reform principles. (hear.) best system of reform upon agreed ; now ic would ay. uch a reform as that pro. I had petitioned the house, s satisfied that witho u t b a l. lection, and that with it n o for the motion of the hor. re subject before the house ucasions of a simila r ea. timaelf to the specific pro. arable and learned gentle. parliaments were a usutps. they were so ; but if such on as a reason for return. ainst a triennial parliame nt of expense. Then, i n in. I his objections to that were in its behalf. He doubted it would afford a cover So baton of the merits of can. of the people. If the her. rid the constitution by um. that such would be the re. not think that there was th e nt the opinion that a reform pose the motion, differing a s a the sentiments with which sort the motion of the noble resolutions be, nevertheless, n some instances, adviseable. reform such as this would mmers were not so senseless. • to avow themselves dissatis. tot be fully satisfied with it, 'Hear, hear.) As to short. f nothing else were done— in reality increase the in. ing the duration of Paths. sold lessen the expenses of tr.) He also differed on the on the subject, and he spoke I passed through four con. by ballot against their pre. end if they were suspected oppressed by their land. gentleman said " hear erwise the ballot would not eel, would not the landlords, out of their farms, be pre. To him the vote by ballot ehimerical—(Cheer.) It would create hypocrites, and leas.) And could a man be t only : trust and credit he e.These were reasons for not racy of the ballot.—(Hear.) remarkable that be was op. In excellent debate between at his motion. The amend. fir way of meeting the qua. ? However, he would uy, it ever so small, he woo they were as Imaginary as by a by.battle that was not have supported his motion roved his case of abuse—ibe division. The numb's 13 319 tran: uni gers, ben .... t w h e e re_ bou 3" se divided 117 ..... 513 96 disposed of, the homes ad. manne orojects attributed to the dan correspondent of v proposed, on the 3d of 1 reproaching the loci rig the new one—re- one, and of the deter- [se new Chamber should attempt to refuse the easion, to present the tld not be " insolent." ent," forthwith to die- ' otherwise, then to dis- to dissolve the Chant- reduced in amount, to iary. en masse, or the Ad- new elections —to 41e- electors of the right t nu reducing most con- xause thus depriving a traders of their quali - their rite to vote. To iting the election of any party during the 10 certain Members of tbe ences of the State, and Article of the Charter, lit of making Onion " or Exchequer Bills. y Ordonnance. he payment of indirect by summary measures, • amber of Deputies for e the same line of cou- d with the Chamber in newed opposition to the establish Military Lae t down the Revolution e Charter and form a recently condemned a the pillory for an hour, lose his rights of cid' his fortune for the ex - iks of a custom-house ren in active service tot Mies in the most satis- icteen years old, bare have been sent by the 'king. These chikine tchmaker at Chan', I kr". We sail, day meal ineei dike ifeOr/ to re to P ADM fleet in P qua car Stan dent only such the I an e nett wou von IMINI JIM' OS iron (roe kin Jun V NMI Uppi •h«