Star. — London, England, 1820-05-27 00:00:00

in,nanunication with some foreign merchants, giving 1 ;km as assurance of - protecting duties. ' By this n:eans the trade was opened ; but the duty was not' imposed as a revenue, but as a bonus to them to em• bark in the trade. A subsequent duty, however, was laid on in 1815, for the purpose of revenue; but it was never contemplated that this duty should con tinue ; and the merchants were given to under stand, that the matter was open to Parliament to make what dispositions they might think lie did not affect to recommend' any particular -course; and whether the duty on timber impopted from the Baltic should be lowered, or whether a countervailing duty should be laid upon that im ported from North America, would be entirely mat ter for a new arrangement. .The next question, as the equalization of the duties on wines, was im -Irirtant. Much might be said on both sides, as well Tor as against the present system. It was productive of good and evil. Though it was the work of the greatest monument of human wisdom, and the greatest Statesman that ever lived, yet it appeared to him to be derogatory to all the plinciples of pru dent economy; but situated as it nylis, it was hardly within the power of Parliament. If this country 'would insist upon the second article of . the Treaty with Portugal, she might in her turn shut out our woollens altogether. Whether it would be worth while to run tins risk, was another question. Even if Portugal did not finally exclude them, the attempt on the part of this country to equalize the duties on Por tuguese and French wines would provoke retaliation, and the exclusion of the woollens of this country by Portu gal, even for a ti me, would be productive of great distress. But he wished the House to consider the ad vantages derived to this country from the Treaty of 1785. He was not then in Parliament, but if he had, he would have given the duty his support. Portugal was snore important, from the extent of its connections s%ith this country, than at first sight it might seem to be. Taking for five years, from 1787 to 1792, the whole exports of this kingdom, they appeared to be to France only 1:718,000, whilst they were to Por tugal M 51,652, and for the same time to Spain L 6•23,340. This was a great trade with Portugal, independent of the trade with the Brazils, which amounted new to upwards of four millions, and was yearly increasing. It would not, therefore, be deal ing fairly with Portugal to put the duties on her Ines on the same footing with those of France. It uotild be well to remove the duties, if any reciprocal advantages were had in lieu ; but, he asked, was this the time for making experiments ? Already the greatest jealousy was felt towards English ma nufactures, and it would be a work of great difficulty to obtain advantages equivalent to those given up. The question, then, was to be looked at in two ices —one, as to the carrying on of trade; the ether, as to the extension of manufactures. As to the latter, he had very great doubts; for hitherto, no efforts bad been spared by British merchants to find a market for their goods, without success.— With respect to our India trade (said the Noble Earl) the question should be looked at in two different views. The first, as to the advantages to our carry ing trade and shipping interests ; and the second, as to our manufactures. On the latter head, I think it is doubtful, if any alteration from the present system would prove useful. Many Merchants have made the experiment—few have succeeded, and many have' wholly tailed. And, as I am on this subject, I cannot help noticing the value of the machinery and capital employed in this country, when I find British renslim sell on the Continent of India for one half the price of those manufactured in India itself—even adding the expense of freight and other charges incidental on their transmission there. This has led to a great and amazing effort of trade—to ton great an effort, and one that well accounts for the falling off in the last year, as compared to that of former years. The market was overstocked—the consumption did not keep paie with the supply. The consequence was a deCciency in the returns, and a corresponding dis tu ess on the part of the manufacturers in this country. With regard to • the China trade, . all.attempts to in troduce it into that country have proved abortive. Your Lordships must he aware that this trade is shut tip by the conditidns of the Charter lately entered into with the East India Company, but a great trade is still carried on by private ships, between China and India, to which they are allowed to bring tea, being previously warranted to do so, by virtue of a license, which is rester refused on proper security being given., When, however, that Charter was passed into a Law, the Parliament retained a certain power in their hands, by which a direct trade with India could be laid caea to the world, although the article of tea was particularly excinded. It was intended, when that Charter was agreed to, to make this country the ernperium of our India trade, as it was to make litita that of the Levant and Adriatic. But under' tha present circumstances of the world, I see no reason why any and every article may not be :car riad, without any intervention, directly to anyplace by British vessels. With regard to some other arti cles, which are not of so great importance, arrange ments may be made which will produce the desired effects. In the tea trade to Europe, regulations also call be adopted, which will also be productive of bei.etit. Haring gone through the points thin had Leer, urged by the Noble Marquis, and having taken a more enlarged view of thesubject, not indeed fioin any feeling of the want of the reasoning followed Ly the Noble Marquis on any particular topicof his speech, I will express my entire concurrence in the motion. I have felt that my, duty not only to the country, but to my sitgation as a Member of his 'Majesty's Cc:increment, have bound use thus fully explain, net only the internal state, but also the . .oreign relations of the kingdom !-.4-( Heardwar)o— have not concealed, nor do I conceal any matter :hich the importance of the subject requires to be .sated; and 1 will declare, not only to your-Lord slips, but to the different persons intaestedin the Commer.ial and Agricultural success of the conntey, and to the People at large, that from time and pa vence the principal remedy for the temponary distress Nt . hicli affects the nation at present is to be horpedlor! Jn the other remedies, which are various, and.pro pored on different sick's, no great dependence could he placed ; but in the investigation of the subject there will riot be any impropriety •, and however as the Advantage which Ain be gained from it may not be great, an investigation, which the necessity of the case seems to ask for, can he carried into Beet. hope, iI O I 7 CYCI", that your I,.ordshies are convinced 1 , of the insufficiency of a continually changing system ! . of Laws towards affording any advantage to either the Commercialists or the Agriculturists, and I trust .. that this conviction will lead your Lordships to ad-. runt the necessity'of refusing to alter the laws as the' clawour of one party or of the other may desire.— From an established and uniform syStem of laws, the country would know what it ought to depend on, and from that knowledge, and from the-certainty of the consequent practice, - it can use its exertions to wards alleviating the present distress. lint a change of the laws every day cannot produce much good: uncertainty on one side, disaffection and discontent CM the other, will thence continually arise. With these views, and under these impressions, I have again to express my full consent to the motion"--(Hear, /sear). The Earl of LAUDERDALE agreed with the Noble Lbrd opposite, with respect to the Corn Laws, The Noble Lord, seemed, however, to under-rate the question cf the Currency, though he acknowledged that Geverrinient could not have been able to carry on the late war without a currency of paper. The Noble Lord went into the subject of the Currency, and argned, that the substitution of paper for gold, of itself, increased the taxation to an enormous amount. He did not expect any immediate relief to the trade of the country from the new regulations; he looked for that relief only to that energy which so peculiarly' distinguished the. merchants of this coun try. He thought that the for motion of a Commercial Treaty between this country and France would give no advantages to England over that country. He alluded to the Petition for a Free Trade, from Glas gow, and agreed with the doctrine it contained—that no alteration ought to be made in the existing laws, without investigating the interests of each particular branch of trade. Upon the India trade, he was pre pared to acknowledge, that he had formerly laboured under erroneous notions, and to agree . that it ought to be inquired into. The general position, however, of the country was such, as to induce him to hope that it would be ameliorated, in every respect, much sooner than was generally expected. In order to see whether the country was really impoverished, the House should look at the produce of the whole coun try, and calculate its comparative amount. Now, no man could say, if he referred to a period of twenty years ago, that there was any diminution in that ge•. neral produce at present, as compared with that time; on the contrary, was it not very much aug mented? He was very happy that his Noble Friend had brought forward the present motion; for, at least, it was productive of the developement of much knowledge, which, he had no doubt, would be turned to advantage by the comninnity. ' Lord ELLENBOROUGH regretted to have heard from the Noble Earl the expression of his determi nation to support the Corn Laws. Ile wished that some Noble Lord had touched upon the Poor Laws, as bethought that a subject surrounded with difficulties. Of this he was convinced, that if the country did not destroy the present system of those laws, that system would destroy the country. He agreed that this coun try was now much richer than it was at the corn- inencement of the late war. The same might be said of Germany, France, and other parts of the Conti nent. Ile imputed the growing wealth of the Conti- nent chiefly to the greater freedom of communica tion 'which is now established between the several districts of each country. Where that communica tion did not exist, as in Austria and Sardinia, great distress prevailed. The restrictions, however, which yet remained in commercial affairs, between the dif ferent countries of Europe, still perpetuated that spirit of hostility which was originally enkindled from political motives. It was said that this court. try could not expect many advantages from Com mercial Treaties, because we had no equivalent to offer for them. But he thought that there was scarcely any country to which a fair equivalent might not he given. To France we might send many of our manufactures, in exchange for articles of luxury, which they produced in much greater perfection, and could afford us upon more moderate terms . than we could get elsewhere. Lord CALTHORPE said, that the luminous state ment which their Lordships had heard would tend to impress on the people of this country the willingness with which their grievances were attended to, and to prove to them that they lived Under a paternal Go vernment, which would treat them with kindness. Ile was happy to find that some principle had been laid down as a standard for our future system, and he thought his Majesty's Ministers had made a li beral concession. The question was then put and agreed to without, any dissent. The Noble Marquis then nominated his Commit. tee. Among the names read, were those of the Earl' of LIVERPOOL, the Earl of HARROWBY, the Duke of WELLINGTON, Marquis of LANSDOWN, Earl of Ross.] LYN, Earls GROSVENOR, LAUDERDALE, DONOVGIPH MORE, and DARNLEY. The House then adjourned at a Quarter before Eleven o'Clock, to Tuesday next. HOUSE OF COMMONS. The SPEAKER informed the House that the Petitioners against the Returns for Westminster, (petitioned against by Mr. Boyce Combe), Truro, Maidstone, Cambridge, Elgin, Coven try (Cobbett's), Wallingford, and Newport, had failed to enter into Reccgnixances within the period specified by the Statute; the consequence was, that they should be considered as withdrawn.' Petitions were presented, by different Members, from the ' • County of Sussex, the neighbourhood of Itrightor., County of Kildare, neighbourhood of-Lewes, Counties of Cornwall, Car low, and Bedford, praying for relief from Agricultural distress. Laid on the table. Mr. .L A MUT ON, in posentisig aohnilar Petition from Dur ham, observed, that he agreed with his Mon. Friend. the Mem ber for :corfolk, that the .Petitionen, instead of praying for pro- Weting duties, ought rather to have petitioned against that gene lel *right of tax.trion which affects not only the Agrieulturists, hut , eery 4lass of •the:eonsmunitr—(Wear, (sear!,::-... Ise red. 'tiou leas !ski on she table. Mr. NESVi‘I A ti.presented a. Petition from Eleter, au4 Mr. HA'RT DAVIS another .frorn Bristol, praying the repeal of cite Warta:Ft.-Laid on' the . table. Mr.. HU Mitap resented:Petitions .from Linen4Manufacturers in the Town and County of Montrose and To *n of Brechin, in Scotland, praying that the Bounties allowed on the exportatioc of Linens should not be withdrawn, and that they should be placed on the sarnelocttng witirrespeet to those Counties as the manufactures of Ireland.—Laid on the table. Woe the motian of Ur, C. W. WY NN, a new Writ was rarderqd for the Election of one Burgess for the Borongh of :Truro. The return sent to the Crown Office, stated the election 'of three individuzis, Sir IlusseyVlviat, Lord Fitzroy Somerset, and J. R. Pro3set..The first was returned by twelve or thirteen • Burzlipses, ai.d the two latter by eleven each. Resolutions were moved aid carried, to the effect that the double return with re spect to the two latter should be void, and thaea new writ should issue for the election of one Burgess besides Sir llus...ey Vivian, the petition agaida his return having been withdraws:, Me• C. w, WrlTNhnstartst op tie Repotatot the Connate* • such return, that time should be given for that Or of Privileges, to TAXA the gasitieces to the sedan isonitstestoed sou ' s arr i va l . • against the Ward en of th e Fl eet Pii sot ti, for tischarging Mr. I Mr. J. WY NN riri thought the Petition shotdd bait ' Robett Christie Burton, in purstrince ota former order of that Houle. was referred. The Cohens/nee agreed that the institution' the attention of the House, and its prayer be granted, of the action in the Oommee Plena was a &grant breach of the that the whole matter might go to a Committee. Privileilf of iha kiPutt• The-resolution to that effect beings Mr. TIERNEY wished to know if a new Writ agreed to-.- could be issued? Mr. V. W. WYNN moved, that Chrlsroplier Bolton, Ca:us Thoinliton, Mul es Fr ost , sa d A tc hlb al d R osser, th e pe ts :e.. ! The SPEAKER stated, that no new Wtit could be concerned in prosecuting tha etion, sha n ld be called to the ll'ar ; issued.till the present Petition had been disposed 01.." of the UMW on Monday se'susight.--,Agreed to. ' After some observations on the part of Mr. BA NEWINCTON NEW CHURCH. TIJURST, Mr. BROUGHAM, and Lord CAS?LEEIACW, Mr. .DENNISON presented two Petitions, signed by /WIT the Order was discharged, and then fixed for the 18th three thousand of the Parishioners of St. Mary, Itiewingtun, in of July. which they prayed to be heard by Counsel against the Da now in progress tor building a new Church in that Parish.—Laid on' the table. Mr. H. SUMNER moved the second reading of the Bill for erecting a new Church in the Parish of St. Mary, Newington. Mr. DENNISON opposed this motion. The principal ground of his opposition rested on the circumstance, that the' Petition in favour of the erection of a new Church was signed by only 56 htdividuals, while to the Petition against it were at tached the signatures of nearly 3,000 of the inhabitants of the Parish. It was admitted that some inconvenience was felt on account of the disproportion of the Parish to the c ipacity of the only two Churches within its precinct. ; but that inconve nience might soon be got rid of, by instituting a third evening service, and the Parishioners were willing to pay a Clergyman for reading the extra service out of their own pockets. Ile con cluded with moving an Amendment, that instead of " now," the Bill be rend a second time this day six monthe i llr. 11. SUMNER contended that anew Church was neces sary, since the present houses of worship were not large enough for the whole Parish. The Rector had on his book 3,000 ap plications for seats, which he bad no means of giving. Sir ROBERT WILSON supported the Amendment. lie declared that he considered this measure not only as an extraor dinary hardship upon the Palish, but as a violation of the late Act of Parliament for the Building of Churches, in which it was declared, that no new (lurch should be erected in any Parish unless the same was resAved on by a majority of the Inhabitants, in Vestry assembled. Mr. PEEL said he had had occasion to hold some commu nication on the subject with the worthy Rector of the Parish ; and, from the representations which that respectable Gentle man had made to him, be was convinced that there never was a case which called more for the attention of .Parliatnent than this. He certainly knew that there were a great number of Dissenters in the Parish, and that, very laudably, they had erected places of worship for themselves • but this was no reason why this ap plication should be refused. Of the 2000 who were now ac commodated lu the Church, there were 600 charity children, who were brought up in the religion cf the Church of England ; and, when they arrived at the age of maturity, what would be come of them when they had no mesas of attending service in the Church ? Under these circumstances be sup port ed the Bill. Sir WM. DE CItESPIGNY said the Rector was particu larly.interested in this measure, because when two Churches were built, he would enjoy an increased degree of patronage in employing Clergymen to do the duty in them. The House divided—For the second reading 206 Against it - . 2$ • Majority SUNDAY NEWSPAPERS. Mr. COIIRTENAY presented a Petition, signed by a considerable number of respectable vendors of Newspapers, who prayed the interposition of the House, in order to put an end to the circulation of Sunday Newspapers. . The Honourable and Learned Member observed, that when the Petitioners request ed him to present this Petition, he stated to them that the subject was involved in difficulties which, in his opinion, could not be easily removed. That, for his own part, he approved of the object of the Petition, but that he did not see hew it could well be attained. With respect to the Liberty of the Press, he was not disposed to concur in any measure which might tend to abridge it. He further said, that - he would not pledge himself to recommend any proposition to the House upon the subject, though, as a matter of course, he deemed it his duty to present the Petition. The Petition was brought up and read. It stated that the Petitioners suffered mach inconvenience and embarrassment by the great increase of Sunday Newspapers. That they felt great reluctance in en gaging in that part of the trade, because it prevented them, in a very great degree, from attending to the duties of the Sabbath ; and this misfortune was felt not only by themselves, but by others, as they were obliged to employ several extra hands in the distri bution of these Newspapers. With respect to the ge. neral character of these prints, they had, in the opi nion pf the Petitioners, a. decided tendency to injure the public morals. They afforded a strong tempta tion to the lower classes of tradesmen and labourers to give to the reading of them that time which ought to be dedicated to religious duties ; they served to sow the seeds of disloyalty, and to propagate im moral principles. The Petitioners, therefore, prayed the House to take such measures as were calculated to put an effectual stop to Sunday Newspapers. Mr. LAMBTON said, he would net oppose the motion for laying this Petition on the table, but he could not remain in his seat without expressing his disgust at the hypocritical rant of these Petitioners ! ( Hear, hear! ).—'flicy came to the House, and stated, indeed, that Sunday Newspapers held out to them a temptation to stay away front their Sabbath duties, although it was obvious that they had the power of removing that temptation as it a ff ected _themselves, by refusing to sell such Papers at all—, ( Hear, hear, bear !).—The charge made in the Peti-, tion against the principles on which the Sunday Newspapers are couducted, was in his opinion, per fectly unfounded. The great majority of those Papers, indeed he knew not that he could except even one, afforded much political and moral instruction; not one of them inculcated blasphemous sentiments. He could not but observe, that if the Petitioners endea voured to mend their own lives at home, rather than come forward with this attack upon the conductors of Sunday Papers, they would have acted much more consonantly with the dictates of Christianity (Hear, hear!).—The Petition was laid on the table. INSOLVENT DEBTORS. Lord ALTHORP moved the second reading of the Insolvent Debtors Bill. No doubts, he observed, could be entertained as to the principle of the Bill that the debtor was entitled to his libe:ty,,upon giv ing up his property to his creditor. Many objectiors had been made to the former lasi\t e lle principle of 'Which was—that the c ourt had not flicient powers to examine into the state of the debtor's property, as the examination took place in open Court. Another objection was—that the debtor often remained in prison till he had spent his property, anti then took the benefit of the Act; but by the present Bill, the petition of the debtor was to be presented within fourteen days, after which he was to have no con troul over the property. As objections had been made to the Agents of the Court, as not properly qualified, the present Bill went to enact, that the Court should nominate the Attornies for the debtors, without interfering with those of the creditor. By the present Bill, the creditor could compel the su:.- render of all t'le property, and should any property devolve to the debtor after his insolvency, he could stop it in its progress. The Bill proposed the ap poiotment of three Commissioners, instead of one; and that he thought preferable to the appointnietA of Examiners, as in Commissions of Bankruptcy. Mr. MACDONALD objected to that pin of the Bill that went to appoint three Commissioners in place of ere, By the appointment of two Examiners, the object could be equally well attained, and at less expense; and he should move an Amendment to that effect in the Committee. A Manisa stated, that though he should not oppose the se. cond reading, he thought one Judge sufficient. Mr. BRIGHT conceived a distinction ought to be made be. tween the honest and the fraudulent Debtor. It would also be of advantage if the Court Lad the -power of summoning a Jury in cases of difficulty. No exception should be made, as was done by the Bill, against the Debtors of the 'Crown, &c. After a few words from Sir F. 05;MANZY and Air. Lisirrarro‘r, Lord AI:FIRMLY. in reply, stated, that the exception in the case of Crown Debtors bad originated with the Attornly-Gene. cal; and he had acceded for fear of losing the Bill. The sum moning of a Jury would be attended with expense, and she Judges would be anxious to relieve themselves from resposuloi lity, by calling in the aid of a July. The Bill was then read a second time, and committed for Wednesday next. WOOL TAX. Lord MILTON presented Petitions from the Ma nufacturers of Woollens in the neighbourhood of Wakefield, Kirkheaton Batley, Culverley, and Leeds, in Yorkshire, praying for the repeal of the Wool Tar. Mr. DENMAN said, he did not desire to provoke debate prematurely on thii subject, but looking at the great distress which was complained of by 01 these Petitioners, he could not help urging the Home to turn their attention seriously to this question. As the first measure of relief, he thought it was necessary to repeal both the Wool Tax and the Corn Laws.— The interests of all classes he conceived to be the same, and what would be a remedy for the distresses of the one would be equally a relief to the other.. _• 4 Mr. BIRCH bore testimony to the existence ntirt.i. tress among the Manufacturers of Yorkshire, follier full extent that had been describe-I. He recoria mended these Petitions to the serious attention of t!le House.—The Petitions were then generally rend, and ordered to be printed. Lord MILTON, in rising to bring under the at tention pf the House the motion of which he had given notice; said, he felt a greater difficulty in in. traducing the question on the Wool Tax than he had felt on almost any former occasion. He felt thus, because he considered that it was necessary in bring. ing it before them, that he should, as far as was pos sible, bring the whole of the subject under their view : But even were his sentiments not what they were on this subject, he should have felt it his duty to prefer the interest of a large body of those who sent him there to his own opinion. He could, however, truly say, whoever might have been his Constituents, in that House he should entertain the same senti. meats as those which he had now Wowed. His notions were formed on those general principles of political economy which were not to be shaken,:-.. l it had ever been a principle in this country not to impose a 'tax on the raw material imported, to the end that it might come into England at as cheap a ,rate as possible. He knew of no instances, excepting in the cases of cotton and silk, in which this rule was departed from. But the circumstances attending these were of a nature very different from those of the present case. During the last Session of Parliament, this principle was, for the first time, violated in the case of the Tax upon Wool. By some, this measure was applauded as a source of revenue, while by others it was regarded as a protection to the agri. culturists. If as a source of Revenue it was calcu lated to increase the importation, in that case it could not serve as a protection to - the agriculturi s t s . If it were adopted as a protection to the Landed In terest, by causing an increased sale of wool by the farmer, it must fail as a source of Revenue. They had on the table an account of the importation of wool up to the sth of April last, and it would be seen by a reference to that document, which com prehended four months of the new dirties, that eight months' importation of wool, at the old duties, amounted to 11,450,0001b5. while the last four months amounted to but 231,0001b5.---sO that in the last four monthi there had not been imported above oneefiftieth - part Of what was-imported in the pre ceding eight months. This he thought was sufficient evidence that the importation of wool could not sup. port, the dtity imposed upon it. Since 1815, when the market Bras glutted with an overstock of woo], iq expectation of a great denraad for it on the part Of the manufacturer, the state of the rnanufacturet of the country had everywhere undergone a great di minution, to the utter disapfointment of - the specu lators on that occasion. The only suffiCient docu ment upon which to , ascertain the real state of the manufactures, was in the account frcnn the West Riding of Yorkshire, which was on t h e ta bl e of the House. - If this. Paper did not actually Prove the dimiriution'in I:he - manufacture; It proved BOROUGH OF ALDBOROUGH. Mr. P. MOORE then moved the adjourned debate on the Petition against the return for Aldboreugh ; and the Petition of Mr. Bryant, the unsuccessful can. didate, was read, preying for time to put in his qua lification ; which, after a few words from •Mr.nrxes; was agreed to. . BOROUGH OF BOSTON. Mr. T. COURTENAY moved the resumption of the adjourned debate on the petition of Mr, Green, ' agent to Mr.. Ellis, the Member returned for Boston; urging that the consideration of the Petition against. Mr. Ellis's return might be postponed, to afford time for Mr. Ellis to arrive in this country from the cape of Good Hope, where* he is at present. Sir R. HERON objected to the time being en larged ; to grant the prayer of the Petition would be useless ; since, if time was given as required, Mr. I Ellis could nevertake his seat. He was disqualified ' 'by the office he held. It might as well be said, if Gattor., or Old &arum, were. to elect -the Dey of Ali,Piers, and a Petition sheeld 'be resented against 1 . • 'I