Star. — London, England, 1827-05-26 00:00:00

the Bill wet of t hat peculiar nature, that fete alteration many of its clauses might endanger its success this s ess i on , he would not be a party to overthrowing-a measure of the general principle of which he approved. j t was unnecessary for him to be mote explicit on the su bj e ct, but Noble Lords would perceive to what he alluded, and he repeated that if any proposed change in an y of the details of the Bill woold go to endanger the present success of the measure, he for one was ready rather than risk the chance of its to take it as it was, oustp unement to another Session, lie should vote for it its present shape and form, because he thought any thi n g better than that a measure of such paramount s thl yntance should be permitted to hang up for another Se,slnn. The Earl of MANSFIELD rose to state his objections to the Bill. The Noble Lord proceeded to complain of the manner in which the averageshad been taken in the maritime districts, which he said gave the appearance of scarcity where nine really existed. As to fluctuation of price also, that prevailed to an extraordinary degree before the enactment of the Bill of 1815, which it was now se much the fashion to decry. The present mea sure was avowedly proposed for the relief of the ma nufacturing interest:, but he believed that it would have no such tendency, for it would cripple the resources of the persons connected wilt land, who were the best customers of the manufactures a. when trade revived, no more complaints would be heard on the subject of the Corn Laws; but whilst distress prevailed in that branch of industry, every law in which the word w corn' was mentioned would be made the subject of popular clamour. The Duke of SOMERSET said, that the objection to the f see importation of corn, which was founded on the alleged fact of that commodity being always paid for in gold, and not by manufactured goods, was an objection of no weight cr importance, for the precious metals did not differ from any other commodity in any respect that could be justly conceived niatetial to the ligament in question. It bad been charged against the suppoiters of the present measure, that they were inno vators, speculative men, political economists men whose measures tended to renew the evils of the French Revolution. Burke, a statesman by no mean:favourable to the principles of the French Revolution, had argued strenuously and successfully in support of the doctrine which it was the object of the Bill then on their Lord ships' table to carry into operation. He then entered ism a warm vindicathn of•the liberal doctrines of the political economists, and strenuously defended them from the imputations which persons interested in resist *the progress of political science had so industriously circulated. His Grace concluded by giving to the mea•ure his most unqualified consent and support. Earl STANHOPE said, the time at which it had been attempted to introduce the measure before the Hou•e was most unfortunate; for the agricultut al intele.l was at the present moment labouring under a heavy pressure of taxation, which was aggravated by the late change in the currency. A Noble Lerd had designated the Agricultural Association which assembled in London, an Agricultui al Parliament. He wished that the Parliament of the Empire had only displayed as much practical wisdom as that Association. The law of 1822 bad never came into practical operation. No foreign corn had ken introduced until what he might call the violation of that law took place. The - principle of the preseat hill was completely subversive of that of 1822, which vas adopted by Parliament, after deliberate investiga tion. The principle of the present measure was to allow *nation at all times, subject to a fluctuating duty. The state of uncertainty in which the agricultural ince. tea would be kept under such a system, must be pro doe . vr of great evil. Farmers would providently ce dare their expend.ture to the lowest possible scale, and you'd employ no mote labourers than were absolutely accessary. The consequence would necessarily be, an mgmentation of the burden of the poors-rate, which vas atready suffi:iently grievous. It never could hap pen except, under extraordinary circumstances, that 60s. vould prove a reinunerating price. Then let their Lordships consider what would be the consequence of admitting the importation of corn, subject to a duty of 20s. when the price reached 6)s. Two w itnesses who were examined betoie the House had proved, that in the course of last year, foreign wheat was brought to this country, including all expenses, at 225. per qr.-- nod re, when the price should arrive at 60s. in this country, that wheat might be imported (duty included) at so more than 425. per quarter--(Hear). There were two circumstances which ought to have deterred Mi. millets from bringing forward the present measure...—. One was the Act passed a few years since respecting the currency, which a high authority in that House had properly called an edict of confiscation ; and the other vas the example of what had happened from the allow. mg the importation of foreign wool. The consequence of lint per missi..n had been a great decline in the export of ar woollen manufacture. The market, also, was at present so stocked with wool, that it was become almost In unsaleable article. •He did not mean to dispute the paver and authority of Parliament; but that power 'Sea to be exercised only for the benefit of the people, is trust for whom it was held If their Lordships shou ld Resent to pass the present Bill, they would not be act-' for the benefit of the community. The consequence toot inevitably be, a diminution of the number of per ors employed. He could prove from the number of petitions lying on the table of the House, that in some ti ,. rict-, and those by no means the worst, one-fourth of e who number of the labouring poor bad been de hived of employment, in consequence of the low price of corn. The immediate effect of this measure, which, tt was said, would prove so generally beneficial, must be to raise the poor rates. The pro fits of the farmers must he redu ce d, t h e rents u f the landlords would fall off, and ultimately cease. With an increasing population, there would be diminished means of employment; pauper. Its would be seen stalking through the land, exciting in the fi rst place discontent , and in the next, by a natural tonsequence, open disaffection. This was his firm and -onest conviction, and his first wish was to avert such 'ethos must necessarily ensue it theßi II should pass into a 6 .• lie was sure that the Noble Viscount and his Col lo. Lees by whom it was proposed did not intend it should I "ve such an effect ; but nothing that he could imagine 'mid so effectually accomplish the wishes of visionary Mu ff ern and radicals as that which was now brought 1 % 1 4 sanction of the House. A revolution in the kale must be the necessary consequence of a revolution ""tte r uperty of individuals; the beginning of such a impa r ir n i tv h a s to be found in any measure which tended the _ e security of property; and nobody, he i ,112 1 . 1 ! could doubt that this Bill would produce that I , l3 7: n ruy. lie would admit, that if it could be proved also measure was advantageous to one class, it h i , e , uic ! 14 Produce a beneficiaf effect on the whole this &two in the Cory Laws, be contended, was. useful to no class of the people, and was treated with' ridicule, and thought on with disgust, by every thinking man out of the H.iuse. He called upon their Lordships, as they valued the *interests, the happiness, and the property of all the subjects of this realm,—as they would preserve unimpaired that' Constitution of which they were so proud, —as they would maintain those institutions which were justly the pride of the nation, — as they would save the country from the horrors of general ruin, of revolution, and of national bankruptcy —to give this measure their most decided opposition in every stage, and especially in that which it had now reached. Lord BEXLEY said it was extremely unjust to call this measure one of confiscation, and contended that it was no more a me asure of confiscation than the mea sures of 1815 and 1822. The Noble Earl (Stanhope) had said that corn had been imported at the price of 225. per quarter. It was true, literally, that some corn had been imported at that price; but it was not so far true as to warrant the inference which the Noble Earl sought to draw from the fact. He ought in fairness to have stated that corn was of bad quality, and was damaged ; and that it was proved by the evidence before the Agri cultural Committee, that the foreign growers had bear reduced to despair by the resolutions adopted by this Government. It appeared that very extensive seizure, had been made by the foreign Government to compel repayment of advances they had made to the mer chants, and that the sellers had consequently been coal pellet! to send corn of any descripti rn to this country. In all the laws on this subject which had been be• tore proposed, prohibition was merely a snare for the consciences of the people, a net for frauds and perjuries. This measure, without going the length of prohibition, afforded as great protection as the' grower could re quire, or as was necs s tary for the interests of the land. With respect to Ireland, the change its the old system had been most sensibly felt. In the three years endin f t 1816. the average exports had amounted to 3,012,0001.; but far the last year they amounted to 7,000,0001. The present measure was calculated to extend these ad van. tages, and by pronioting the agriculture, to improv e the condition of all the wrier manufacturers, on which the tranquillity and prosperity of that nation so mainly depended. As to the effect which might be produced on the woollen-trade, he wished the House to keep in mind the fact, that wool was not here, as it was in other countries, the principal part of the matte of the sheep, or the chief source of the grower's profit; in . 1822, pre vious to the reduction of the duty, the Southdown wool sold for 161 a pound, which made the whole fierce worth just 3s. 4.1., at the same time ahe mutton of the same sheep fetched 4Os. In 1826 the price of wool ha,' fallen to 9J., the ficece was wortn but 2,.2d. but the mut ton sold for 2165.8 d ; so rh it the value of the whole sheep had Considerably increased. He was convinced that none of the Corn Laws which had been introduced had ever deserved to be compared with this. It went, by a regular process, from higher to lower prices; and by the duty increasing as the price fell, such a check "was placed urn it as must altogether check any rapid fall. For his own part he confessed that he was very much lattaclie4 to this measure. He looked upon it as the last which had been produced by isis Noble Friend (Lord Liverpool), Whose services were now lost to the country ; and he regarded it in the light of a legacy from that Noble Lord. He knew that he had attached to it the greatest importance, and that a great part of the last summer was empl o y e d b y hi m in investigating profoundly and minutely all the details of the subject After he had given it his fullest consideration, he laid it before the Government, and having been fully des cussed, it was approved of by them, and afterwards sub mitted to the House. Ile *as far from saying that this measure, or any other of hum rn invention, was al together perfect; but he was quite convinced that it was infinitely better than any which had before been brought forward. The Marquis of SALISBURY said, that if the N ble Lord who bad just spoken, could persuade the farmers that sheep were so very valuable as they were repre sented to be, he (the Marquis of Salisbury) would be most happy to be the means of conveying them the in formation, as be might thus, perhaps, be able to raise his rents. 11.0 admission of foreign grain, last year, was a posi ive robbery upon the agriculturist; and he belie red it was so regarded by the Noble Earl, lately at the bead of his Majesty's Government. It was a mistaken notion to suppose, that the farthing in the pound which was to be saved by this measure, would be extended to the community at large, in the lowered price of ge neral produce. The Noble Marquis complained of the change of opinions in the Noble Lord who had opened the discussion, and referred to a pamphlet formerly written by the Noble Lord, oa the subject of the Cora Laws, deprecating dependence on foreign supplies. He feared visionary theories, and thought that nothing but increasul disueu attended the march of intellect. He was of opinion that all interests-ought to be attended to alike, and that for the sake of the manufacturer, the home grower of corn ought to be encouraged. In his opinion f ithe better plan would be, to fix the duty at the limo of the impoetation, and not at the time of its be• ing taken out of bond. Lord ELLEN BOROUGH expressed his dissent from the opinion of the Noble Lord, who had said that this Bill was the most perfect creation of human art. He was obliged to regard it as a Bill of amendment, and he was so far willing to entertain it at present as to go into the Clununittee with it, and there endeavour, in dettil, to improve it, with the full determination to op pose it on the third reading, if not altered to his wish. If the Noble Viscount opposite (Lord Goderich), had not been a very young Peer, he would not have exhorted that House to lay aside all the acrimony of party leelmg in the discussion of this question. The Noble Viscount would know what he had been a litt!e longer a Member of the House, that upon no great national question was the acrimony of party feeling ever displayed there.— He would find perfect quiescence amongst them upon all such occasions. The Noble Viscount, however, shewed himself not only a young Peer, but a young Statesman, when, in the conclusion of his speech he called upon them to enact this law, because of the distresses of the manufacturers, thus demanding .a permanent measure! for a temporary evil—(hear.) The Noble Viscount had also shewn great magnanimity in the recantation of his former opinions ; and he believed they . would see many more such confessions before long. With re ference, however, to the Bill of 1815, about which so much bad been said, it did appear to be a singular ad. i mission, that the price of 1822, introduced for the par- pose of correcting its evils, had been inoperative during four years. He did not think this circumstance a good foundation for that confidence, for which the Noble Viscount bad called upon them that night. The Bill of 1815 established the principle of prohibition, and the Bill of 1822, incorporated with that principle a ''gviidoated scale of duties; and 'as this 'graduate, scale) sd not' yet come into operation, it appeared to him to be that.their wiser course would be to coffee' that Bill, and give the system so framed a fair trial. He . Was of opinion that this was a great constitutional ques. tion, and that there was none which more deeply of fected the general Interests of the country than the agri• cultural interest. Upon agriculture rested the Consti tution—(Hear, hem). It was impossible for him to look at the depreciation of the last seventeen Years, amounting to about forty-four per cent. in the agricul tural interest ; he could not see the m inufacturing sys tem at the same time in that state, that the slightest' stop given to it, affected the public tranquillity all over the kingdom ; he could not see how often there had been within the last twenty years, encroachments upon the liberties of the subject, how often measures beyond the law had been demanded—without feeling the deepest anxiety at the appearance of any law tending to in crease the balance—already too strongly inclined, to the manufacturing interest—(Hear, hear). Looking on the other hand, upon the agricultural interest, as the basis of the Constitution, and being anxious to maintain the constitutional laws, he could not view with favour a measure tending to lessen its importance and prosperity. But, beyond these considerations, this was a great Irish question—(H ar.) Fur twenty years past that country monopotized the supply of grain to England ; and as their agricuttneal wealth increased in consequence their manufacture; had increased also. Now I.e was not bdirttnottb to look, at a measure whicly was to I shake'the foundations of Irish prosperity with Wife reace—lHear, hear.) He did not say that be would abandon the Bill, but merely that be ,bolo go let° the , consiteration of h with. great apprehension. By the Bill of 1815, this country was placed in a state of rude pendence as to foreign supplies; and he must say that he was one alto feared to see the English nation 'provisioned by the ftireigner. He should fear to see the En4lish Slate dependent upon a foreign Sate, jealousof its existence, of its liberty, and of its power. He knew the inconvenience of high prices; but he'wou)d rather , have that inconvenience for twenty years than have one, year of famine, or o f nat i ona l d epen d ence—(Hear,l hear.) He was sure the Noble Viscount would not bring this Bill forward at present, were it not for the pledge given last year. It was a most inconvenient moment, when the currency had by no means been settled by the measure of last year. The Noble Lord complained that that House hid been nicht unjustly assailed by calumny as to its' motives upon this subject; but it *ea placed far above the reach of clamour, and stood too high not in look with indifference on all interests and classes. The House would decide conscientiously upon that course which it conceived best for the coun try. He would not act with regard to this Bill upon the grounds avowed by his Noble Friend opposite. He would never consent to lay the privileges of that House at the foot of any other. He thought the independeece of all irduld Jo best preserved by maintaining the distinct privileges of each. • He would not be guided in his course towards this Bill by its name ; nor by any con sideration of what would be done or thought in another place.—(Hear. hear.) The Marquis of LANSDOWN, after the ample dis cussion of this question, was anxious to take up no more than a few minutes in explaining why the Bill would have his support. The Noble Lot d who spoke last bad done that which produced, however unintentionally, the effect of a dr.:et misrepresentation. He had assumed that his Noble Friend had made the distress of the ma nufacturers the foundation of the measure. Those who had attended, on the contrary, to his Noble Friend, must have heard him state. that the manufacturing distress was gradually and effectually decreasing. He himself objected to all attempts at arguing this cries., tion upon the ground of separate interests. Manufac tures were here allied to agriculture ; and if the latter had in this country attained that high pre-eminence which had been so justly described, it ought not have been lett out of the recollection of the Noble Lord (Ellenborough) that it attained that superiority while the manufacturers were at liberty to seek, even abroad, for their own provision market. By a judicious use of the means which the country then possessed, she had been enabled to call into the assistance of her resources the science of the whole world. As to the comparison of this Bill with those of 1815-and 1822,' the difference was, that the present Bill, instead of an utter prohibi. tioo, adopted the principle of a gradual admission of foreign grain, under, regulations which should at all times prevent an over flow of the market, and allow an adequate protection to the native grower. It was with this view of it that he was ready to adopt the measure as it was now laid down. He thought that the dread of allowing other nations to assist in supplying us with grain was not one which it would be becom ing in the Legislature to notice. In the nature of things, the richest country would be more depend ent than _others for the supply of corn, because its capital would at all times be engaged in machinery and manufactures; and by this application of capital, the agricultural interests would be elevated in propor tion to its profitable occupation. The opposite argu fluent would apply equally to letting the agricultural produce of one county into the markets of another. This consideration would shew clearly that the present Bill was framed with a view to the general interests of the country, and not fof the mere.encouragement of tillage, as this fast could never, or ought never, to bean object with a country like this, which was sot rich as to make it next to impossible that it could ever haven con siderable export of its raw produce. Ravening to the fate of the country under the existing law,had they not seen the greatest distress pervading the agricultural classes in 1822, in spite of the prohibitory law ? and were not those classes left by a succession of prosperous seasons and other ciicumstances, almost entirely without the means of disposing of their 0A n produce? Had they not witnessed a transition, in consequence of that law, from.scarcity to glut, an.] from glut to scarcity, the embarrassing effects of a hich had been that there WAS 110 one class which had not expressed, in terms of complaint to the Legislature, their sense of that law, and called for its repeal ? The fact being so, he contended that there was no time so proper to consider of their alteration as the present. Would they wait to be prompted on the one hand by famine, or on the other by manufacturing distress, to do their duty upon a subject which came home to the feelings and to the mouths of the community, and which was so lull of those ingredients that were the most likely to excite the display of their passions ; perhaps too, at a time which would, for those very reasons, in volve all which they could attempt in misrepresentation, when, by the reaction of the public sympathies, they might be aroused to inflammation and fury, instead of pursuing their course by deliberate, and temperate le gislation as they were free to do at present? The prin ciple of the Bilk went to admit, by proper gradations, free introduction of foreign grain; and for the rstsont, a power of admission, beyondthar which existed under the law of 1822. It had a:w .)s been understood that the-principle of that Bull was not permanent, but th t the measure should be filially adjusted, so as to ad mit foreign grain without detriment to the proper interests of the horn,, grower, and with a protection to him corresponding to the weight of taxation. Thai taxation was considered fully in the provisions of the present Bill. He would add, that if he thought - this Bill would have the effe:t of throwing either land or labour out of employment, no consideratian whatetee, under the present circumstances, would induce him to agree to the Bill. Though be knew the value of the principle of the Bill, he also knew the danger of any lash application of it to the country labouring nnder a state of circumstances so ex remely artificial. He knew how impossible it was suddenly to divert the course of set. tional industry from its adopted channels, and how senseless it would be to attempt to treat the animal economy as part of a machine, whose use and 'desti nation were cap4ble of being changed on every chang ing occasion. The Legislature on the contrary,' wtre ntund to watch it and modify its powers and adapt it taut ously to the changes of circumstances, and not at any time to lose sight of the means of is occupation, and -the danger of suddenly displacing it. • Such was the purpose of the Bill. The case of freand hid been adverted to, and let but the principal act with respect to Ireland, between the readiness of transferring her own produce and the introduction of a small portion of English manufactu , es, Ireland would become blessed. In conclusio-i, his Lordship contended that the Parlia ment - was bound to give the country the benefit of closing this question, and of not suffering a subject of such great importance to be left to circumstances mu.: sionally corrected by the exertion of a power beyond the law. It was desirable that all men should be enabled to understand their own situations; and in a contract for a fatthing, that they should know whet actual value they were legally and justly called upon to give. He would support the. B 11. • The Earl of ROSSLYN contended that aerieattare, spas tit produce of which more than half the weight of taxation MI, de manded protection from their Lordships, besides on its own account. He was prepared to prove, that by the decrease of Prices, the *eight of taxation on agriculture had increased 20 per Cent.--as the taxes which In 1 . 815 were capable of bring paid its eight millions quarters of wheat, would now require 10 millions to pay , them. He psi convinced that the law as it stood was far before the present Bill, that it was much better calculated to prevent fluctuation in sisal prices of produce, and consequently the inability olf the farnters to pay rents, and employ agricultural Igbour. His Lordship cola' ged on the advantages of keeping all the lands in cultivation, and thereby not only preserving a hardy race of agricultural labourers . , but also of preserving the country hs a s t ate of per f ect independence as to foreign Powers for the support of the rapulatiotr. Lord RRDESDALE opposed the MU, and said that the effect of * would be in a single bad harvest to ruin the tenant .entirely. The attempt was to create au Neal price of corn all over the !raid, which was an arrangement against nature, and one which could be effected. The Earl et CARNARVON supported the Bill, and denied that the country ran any danger from drawing its supplies of corn front foreign States. As aeon as we created an open trade, the people front whom we purchased wanted our market as much as we could want their grain. He supported the Bill, localise he was con►inced that e►en the price of 60s. was one which, under existing circum stances, the country would not be able to sustain. Sixty shillings would be a higher price at this moment than sui.was a short time ago. The Earl of DARNLEY supported the Bill, and was of opinion that It ga►e competent protection to the agriculturist. The Douse then di►idd, when the numbers were— For the Committee . . . 120 against k 65 Majority for the BM ..„57 The Bill was thee committed preioreso, and ordered to be committedre ow Friday next, and their Lordships immediately ad. jourued, at Oos o'Croca. HOUSE OF COMMONS. The House net at Four o'Clock, and several Private Bills were forwarded in their respective stages. Mr. H. DRUMMOND moved the third reading of the sir. lingsbire Road Bill. Mr. FERGUSSON proposed a clause exempting a certain Has of road leading to the Cat ron Iron Woiks from its operation. Mr. H. DRUMMOND opposed the clause, as likely to ba fatal to the BUL The Gallery was then cleared for a division, but the clause was dived without dividing, and t h e B i ll was read a third time and rued, XIISSAGE 111014 iNt 1.011)11. A Message from the Lads announced thrir Lsrdships' eon currency in several Bills. COAPOILATION AND TIT? ACT. Sir W. Guise presented a Petition from Burton on. Water, in the County of Gloucester, for the Repeal of the Corporation and Test Act. Similar Petitions were presented by Mr. PCIRTMAX, from the town of Dorsetshire ; by Mr. PALI.II/14 from St. Alary's, New. ingtoa; by Mr. Cuawme, from the parishes of Bknnerhasset and Aspatria,in the County of Cumberland ; by Sir C. Cote, from a parish in the County of Glamorgan • by Mr. Ras:wore, from the Isle of Wight, and three other pl a c e : : by Mr . J. WOOO, from Fro. ' rage. in the County of Lancaster; by Lord Atrnoar, from Long Buckley, in the County of Northampton, and from Chinni, in the County of Oxford by Lord .101111 Roaster., from the general body of the Protestant Dissenting Clergymen of the Cities of Lou. dun and Westminster; frogs Manchester ; from Wallingford; and from Hail-Weston, in th e C ount y o f H unt i ngdon ; by Mr. Dud son, from Kingston-upon-Thames; and by hlr. J. !11•ILTISI; from the town of 'Tewkesbury. Mr. C. PAi.attta brought in the Carriage of Goods' Bill, which was read a first time, and ordered to be reednasecond time on 'Tues day next. • The SOLICITOL.GUIZIAL brought in the Limitattion of Arrest Bill, which was read a first time, - and ordered to be read a second time on Monday next. Colonel Surzoisra presented a Petition from the Owners and Occupiers of Land in the vicinity of Lincoln, and three *thee Petitions for;. tax upon the importatidn of Foreign Wool. Mr. L. Kecx brought in the Coventry Magistrates Bill, whit* was read i first time, and ordered to be read a second tithe on Wednesday next. Sir J. Consent presented a Petition from the Coroner* el the County of Hereford, for an increase to their fees. Mr. Heath prescnted a Petition from t h e C rown Debtors in the Jail of Aberde en ? nit the Excise Laws. The same Hon. imam presented a Petiliciss from the inhaba. tants of a parish in OaltkpV e ggaitut the Parish Vestry Act. The Hun. Meanie then qtavgd for a Copy of the Report of the Committee appointed by distiessancil of Trinidad to Inquire into the state of the Free Blacks. .*S' • 4 Sir F. BURDETT presented a Petition from certain inhatst tants of Westminster, against the conduct of the Water Companies, which, after a few words from Mr. Hoanouta, was ordered to lie upon the table. Sir F. BURDETT then gave notice that he would anionic a motion to the House on the subject on Monday neat. Lord CASTLEREAGH gave notice of his intention to move for certain returns respecting the Constabulary Futce in Ireland on Thursday vat. General GASCOYNE presented a Petition from cert.dn Mita blunts of Liverpool against the Stamp Duties. Sir C. BURRELL presented a Petition from the Woolgrowers of the Rape of Breather, praying for a protecting Duty on Fo reign Wool. MILSTRUSED MANIMACTURKIM Mr. R. DAVENPORT adverted to bit dropped notice of yes terday, for a Committee to inquire into the causes of tte distresses of the Aanufacturing and industrious classes, during the prawns and late years ; and said, that though he did not caoaider be bad muck chance of sitcom, he should make another attempt, and therefore gave notice, that be should make such motion on June 14th. Mr. Alderman W A ITH id A N presented a Petition Pont cer tain Indivlduals who bad been induced to emigrate in consequence 01 the prospects held out by the Colombian Agrjaultusal Modem .....miliiMlP