Star. — London, England, 1812-07-14 00:00:00

lARLIAMENTARr PAOCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF LORDS, JULY is. ROYAL ASSENT BY COMMISSION. ° Their Lordships met at about half-past three o'clock, when, layers being read, the LORD CIIANCFLLOI, the Earl CHOL. lONDELtic and Lord Weinsitturs.tos, dressed in their robes as ammissloners, took their seats o:i the Woolsack, and in the ane of his Royal Highness the Prince Regent, for and in ballot his Majesty, gave the R iyal Assent to several Public Private Bills. Among the for.oer were the I.ocal Militia, le Corn Distillery, the Regent' i2anal, the Soldiers' Families, le Levant 'lr.tc!:•, and the Ryde Pier and Harbour Bills. '1 he Ife Anwit'es, the Ins)) Butte:, the Commercial F.xchequer ills, ant] the unredeemed Prizes hills were read a third time id passed. VW!' 1: OF CREDIT. The Earl of LIVERPOOL presented a Message from his oval Highness the PI a ce Regent, recommending, In the usual rot, the annual Vote of er,dit, which, .on the motion of the lol.le Farl, was ordered to be taken into consideration next yeanesday. Mn. PALMER,—AND EX-OFFICIO INFORMATIONS. .The Earl of MOIRA rose to request it as a per. nnal obligation to liimsell— if he might so put it— if his Noble Friend (Holland), that he would allow he discussion of Mr. Palmer's claim tomorrow, to ake precedence of his motion on the subject of Ex )fficio informations. Lord HOLLAND could not refus . to accede to he request of his Noble Friend, though the conse pience must be, that he must postpone kis motion till farther, as it was not likely he could bring it on liter the. di‘posal of the question of Mr. Paimer's :laims. Ile could net fix any particular day at pre ient for bringing it on, until he consulted some Noble Friends of his. He could not, however, help feeling -egret at being obliged thus to postpone his motion, leimportance of which was becoming every day more :ipparent. Intelligence which reached him this very day, of certain proceedings in Ireland, impress. :d upon his mind; still more deeply, the necessity of some regulation to check this discretionary power of the Attorney-General, which, in its abuse, was the most dangerous that could be conceived. . Earl GREY expressed his very serious regret that the motion of his Noble Friend was to be postponed, as he could not possibly attend their Lordships' House after to-morrow. Not that he thought he eould be of much use to his Noble Friend in the very laudable and important purpose in which be was en gaged—but it was a matter of personal regret to ' himself, that he could Lot be -present so as to record, 'by his vote, his most perfect concurrence in the prin. ieiple and object of his Noble Friend's motion. This discretionary power, in an Officer of Government, might he perverted to the most dangerous purposes. A Government, weak in itself, and having no hopes of resting itself upon the favour and affection of a lir arrateful people, would naturally endeavour to s h e lt e r 'itself by preventing free discussion ; and for that end this power of filing Ex-officio informations was a most admirable instrument. He had this day. heasd that in Ireland a prosecution bad been commenced by the Attorney-General, where there ought to be no prosecution at all ; or, if there existed any ground for pro s ecution, it ought to have been done in a very different manner. An individual had published a pamphlet on the subject of the penal laws against the Catholics ; a pelf :cily fair subject of discussion ; and which, if there was any thing objectionable in it, ought to have been met by a contrary statement.— But instead of this, a prosecution was resorted to,_ and in a mode which, as tar as he could learn, was altogether unprecedebted. The Attorney had sent a notice to the Printer of the Pamphlet in question, in the nature of a summons to attend him at his own house, and there shew cause to him, the Attorney-, General, why a criminal information should not he filed agai CI him. He had consulted several in re. - gard to this proceeding, and all had declared, that such a thing was utterly unknown to them in the course of their experience.. He was sorry to find, that a system of conciliatit n, such as perhaps might have been expected from the recent resolution of ahe House of Commons against theCatholies, was not to be-adopted. He could not let slip this °ppm tunity of making these few observations, and declaring his most perfect concurrence in the object of his Noble Friend, since he could not be enabled to do so when the motion should be brought forward. IIIGIMAY SURVEYORS. Lord ELLIOT moved the second reading of the Highway Surveyors Bill. The Earl of LAUDERDALE said, that the measure was too imperfect to pass this session. He col:fit:ended the chject of the Voble Lord, but sug gested that it would be proper to withdraw the mo tion, and postpone the business till another session, when a measure more applicable to the several parts cf the country might be brought forward ; and be concluded by moving, that the Bill be read a second time this day three months. . Lord ELLIOT said, that as there was no objec tion to the principle of the Bill, it was proper it should] go to a Committee. . 1 Lords REDESDALE and RADNOR observed, that there were a great many objectionable clauses in the Bill, but it was proper it should go to a Commit tee, that the objections might be discussed, so as to give a better chance fcr the production of a more mature measure next Session.—The Bill was•read a second time, and committed for Thuriday. LOCAL TOKENS. The Local Tokens Bill was committed. The Earl of LAUDERDALE called their Lord ships' attention to a clause in the Bill, by which, . in case any one-should unfortunately - have white let- tis s engrave': on paper with a sable ground, they were liable to he transported to Botany Bay for 14. years. This was going a good deal too far ; besides, he did 1 not see why the Bank of England alone was to have ' this security. They ought to legislate for the public, 1 and not for the Bank of England. The Earl of Liverpool said that they were legisla- ' ring for the public, for as it was incumbent on the people to take the Bank of England notes, itwas ne. eessary that these notes particularly should be guard- - ) ed against forgery : and as to the observation in re. , gard to transportation, it was obvious that the law did sot include such as could shew that they came by such pieces of paper innocently. The Earl of LAUDERDALE next objected to the word 44 Coin," as applied to Bank dollars & and .asked, whether it we's really their intention, that the Prerogative of the Crown, in respect of coining, should be transferred to the B ink of England The' Earl of LIVERPOOL agreed to substitute the word Token" instead cf " Coin." After a few words from Lords LAUDERDALE and Ross, the Bill passed through the Committee. Re port to-morrow. ADMINISTRATION by JUSTICE. Upon the Order of the Day being read for enter ing on the Report of the Bill for the better Admini stration of Justice, Lord REDESDA LE rose, and observed, that the Bill be4ore their Lordships had been founded on the Report of their Lordship's' Committee of the 20th of May, 1811, to whom such a measure had appeared absolutely indispensible, on account of the increase and multitude of Appeals and Writs of Error which had of late years so accumulated as to render it im possible for any powers or faculties of the Lord Chan cellor to go through with them, together with the due discharge of his important duties in another Court. There were, at that moment, no less than 338 Ap peals and Writs of Error standing over. His Lordship distinctly recapitulated his former arguments and statements respecting the vastincrease of the business, both Parliamentary and Judicial, which pressed upon the Lord Chlncellor of the present time, compared with that of Lord Hardwick, particularly in the Bank rupt Laws and Recorder's Reports, and thence de duced the absolute necessity of affording relief and assistance to the Lord Chancellor. Lord RADNOR suggested some verbal amend ments, which were agreed to. The LORD CHANCELLOR should only trou ble their Lordships with a few words. Whatever might be the opinions of other persons concerning the weight and multitude of the public duties which it had been his lot and his honour to sustain, or of the faci lity with which such duties might be discharged, be was fully conscious, that to the very utmost of his abi lity, he had done his dwy, and when death should have removed him from the exercise of those duties and those cares, he was confident it would be found, that he had not omitted or neglected any means or opportunity of hastening and effecting the objects of public justice. But it was not possible to conceal from hirnself, or from the world, that the business both in the Court of Chancery, and in that House, had so accumulated, as to be at that time beyond the power or faculties of any. individual to perform it with effect. He would call upon his Noble ..nd Learned Friend (Lord Redesdale) to confirm the statement he had made. Particularly, in the single instance of the Seal, which, formerly, and at no great distance of time, re quired but a single day for dispatch, but at present demanded years. But abundantly and heay.ly as the business in Chancery had recently increased, he scrupled not to say, that with the incessant and perse vering application which he had devoted to the proper discharge of it, he might be still able to execute it, if his labours and attention were confined to that Court. But when the duties which his station in that House called on him to perform were considered, it was im- possible for him not to shrink from a load and multi plicity of cares which no human mind, strength, or faculties were equal to. It had happened in the last and in the present Sessions, that he had listened in that House to arguments in causes of appeal for thirty days, and should he do his duty in such causes, must add to the time spent in that House many hours and nights of private thought. Impressed as he always had been with that sense of his duty, he not unfre; quently had found himself scarce able at night to step into his house. If he were to indulge his own private aad peculiar comfort, he should choose re tirement at that time, and he could confidently and frankly say that the most pleasing thoughts which could there press upon his mind, would be the recol lection of the reflection on the fidelity and industry ! with which he had fulfilled his public and judicial duties. His Lordship, in the course of his speech, paid sorhe high compliments to the Master Of the Rolls, than whom there could not be a m•re compe tent and exemplary Judge. The Report was agreed to, and the Billiordered to he eugrossed. Their Lordshipi then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. The Black Rod summoned tlTeCon;i;ons to the House of Peers, to hear the Royal Assent given to several Bills. 't he further consideration of the Report of the Frame Work Knitters Bill was postponed till to-morrow. Sir FRANCIS BURDLTT, Mr. BTNG, Mr. MILLISM, and Mr. THORNTON, severally presented Petitions from various parishes in Middlesex Westminster, Southwark, and Surrey, against the Nightly Watch Bill. The Malt Regulation Bill was read a third time ; and, on the suggestion of Mr. Paulson, the time fit for the wetting•of barley for malt was extended front 50 to .55 hours. Colonel PALMER wished to observe, that amisconception had gone a►road, that the compensation Bill in favour of his father exempted him from payment of the Income Tax. He did not believe that any clause had that effect ; but if it should be found that it was so, he pledged himself to bring in a Bill to alter any such enactment. The Army Prize Money Bill was read a third time, and passed. The Manure Carriage Bill, the Warehousing Bill, and the Ids of Man Trade Bill, went through Committees. A message from the Lords acquainted the House, that their Lordships hall agreed to the Irish Pupalation Bill, and the Starch Bill. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, after a few ib• nervations, moved for leave to bring in a Bill, enabling the Ke4er of the King's Privy Purse, to dispose of and transfer all sums standing In the name of his Majesty at the Bank. The object of the Bill, was to liquidate certain expellees that had been curred, and to make the Privy Purse, in as far as regarded suds property, responsible to the Cummtss!onus wins bad the care of the King's private property. After some conversation,in which Mr. Tr ea ra se, Mr. SIM ROW, and Mr. BROUOIIAM took a part, leave w; s granted. Mr. 'IIERNEY gave notice, that on Wednesday he should move certain resolutions with rap ed so the fi nance of the country.-- _ _ VOTE OF CREDIT. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER brought up a message from jhe Prince Regent, which was to the following effect : _ G. P. R..—The Prince Regent, in the name and on the behalf of hie Majesty, considering that it may be of the greatest im portance to provide for such emergencies as may arise during the recess of Parliament, confides in the wisdom and liberality of the House of Contmons, - that they will enable him to make such provision as to disappoint any attempts of the enemy, and as the urgency of affairs may require. On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, the Prince Regent's Message was ordered to be taken into consideration to-morrow. _ EX• omen) Peosocurlort. Mr. SHERIDAN said, he understood that an ex officio prosecution bad been commenced against a Mr. Fitzgerald, a, printer in Dublin, for the publica• tion of a pamphlet containing a statement of the va lions acts which affect the Roman Catholics, mom. panied with observations. He had read the pam phlet, and saw In it nothing libellous but the Acts themselves. The Noble Lord opposite had-talked of employing the recess in conciliating the Catholics, but this was a singular step towards harmony and conciliation. What he wanted to know was, whe ther this prosecution originated here, or was merely the recommendation of sonic Crown Lawyer in Ire land ? The body of the notice served on Fitzgerald was extremely curious. It was a notice given by a Mr. Kemmis, requiring him to show cause before Mr. Saurin, the Attorney General, at his house in Stephen's-green, Dublin, why a criminal informa tion should not be filed, against him. He would submit that a proceeding of this nature was quite illegal—(Hear, bear),—aud should now move fur the production of a copy of it. Lord CASTLE R EAGH declared, that if was the first time be had heard any thing on the subject; and hoped that the Right . Hon. Gentleman would not press his motion without a notice. Mr. SHERIDAN acceded to this wish, and fixed his notice for to-morrow. PEACE PRESERVATION RILL. Lord CASTLEREAGH moved the order of the 1 day for the second reading of this Bill. Mr. WHITBREAD said, that having now had an opportunity of reading this Bill, he had not alter ed his opinion with regard to it, but was more dis posed to object to it than before. The preamble stated, that assemblies of men were in the habit of forcibly demanding, and taking arms; but he - would deny that the recital which it contained was founded on any adequate authority. The information had come from Magistrates who were actuated bj . their fears, and through other channels, where opinions were taken up as to the origin of these disorders, which were totally different from the real causes.— He would again repeat, that due exertions had not been made to preserve the peace of the disturbed dis tricts under the existing laws. In some cases the Magistrates had been swpine, and in others, they had acted with violence, and from a perverted judg ment. There was every appearance of the cessation cf disorder. From the 23d of June, wl:en the Secret Committee was appointed, down to Ft id !y last, there had been no evidence of any act of disturbance at all. The preamble besides asserted, what was not proved in the Committee, that there were assemblages amen learnini in part the use of arms. There was no one tittle or evidence to that effect. There was no oral testimony; all that was produced by the Noble Lord, Was a mere hearsay in writing, in which a man told us, that on a Sunday, during divine service, there were 300 persons assembled at one place, for the purpose of learning the use of arms. But all this was merely what a person had heard. The recital of the Bill, he would contend, was false, and therefore the enact ments 4liould fall to the ground. These enactments appeared to him objectionable in the extreme. As to the persons who had blackened their faces, and disfi gured themselves for the purpose of concealment, and had attended the meeting on Dean-mcor, near Man chester, it wrned out that ten of them were spies sent out by/Tie Magistrates; and the only other man present, who was similarly disguised and with fire arms, was one Hurst, who was now under sentence of transportation. These spies were the very ring. leaders of the mischief, and incited the pi-or le to acts which they would not have thcught of. bush a prac tice should not go on—(Hear) ; and T; wculd never consent to entrust new powers to Magistrates who had thus grossly misconducted themselves. 'The Hon. Member for Yorkshire had ascribed the evil to certain inflammatory and seditious publications; but he, and other Gentlemen who thought with him, had in the same breath, declared, that work, and a lower prioe of provisions, were likely to render the people tranquil. The Honourable Gentleman's mind seemed in 4 state of alarm and consternation ; and, of course, his ideas were not likely to be clear. One Gentleman in the country had conceived the whole to be a plot, di rected by persons of consequence in London. Nay, he hehi a deposition in his hand, which had been taken from a person confined in Lancaster gaol, in which an opinion was stated, that he (Mr. Whit bread) was one of the heads of the plot.—(Hear.)— The only circumstance in which such a report could originate was, his having written - a letter to the ma. nutacturers of nolton, in which he gave them the best advice he was able. So ridiculous were the ideas' entertained by some people in that part of the coun try, that there was even some expectation of getting the Duke of York to give them support. These ideas of plots were ridiculous in one point of view, but base in another, because there was too much reason to be lieve that the absurdities had been propagated by some of the. Magistrates. A convict had given in a declaration affecting a very respectable man, who was, however, a Presbyterian, and the consequence was, his character had been implicated, and he was marked out by the Magistrates. The Honourable Member then adverted to information which he had received from the Potteries, which represented the workmen as now employed, tranquil and happy. He .depre cated the introduction of the Bill at all ; and though i he anticipated little support, he should divide Ole' House against it. He protested against the measure ; more especially when he considered how similar powers were exercisedin Ireland ; not merely in times of confusion, as the Noble Lord had stated, but in general orders, calmly issued by Generals and Magis trates, and which showed that they acted under the consternation of fear, which was the cruelest as well as the blindest of passions. The abolition of the Or ders in Council had done much to restore tranquillity, but the restoration of a general peace would do more. The' e was a prospect that it might be now obtained on honourable terms; and he for one would prefer the extermination of the country rather than consent to dishonourable oneso—(licar.)—lt would do much to tranquilize the people, were they convinced that the continua nce of war was not the f au l t o f t h e i r own Government, but of the enemy. He was inclined to think, that about three weeks ago France had trans mitted offers of negociation, and he should wish to hear why they had not been accepted. Mr. SMITH (Member for Cambridge University) had expected that the report would have. been ac companied with some extracts from the evidence. He was glad that there appeared no satisfactory ground for the rumours, that persons of high rank were im plicated in these insurrectionary combinations, and that large funds existed for their maintenance—at the same time it seemed evident, that a powerful. conspi. I racy did exist ; obscure indeed, but not the less dal. gerous for its obscurity.—The Report abstain e d pr, ri plying any cause or remedy for 61 evil—it b e . came, therefore, the more b:tuntien duty of tle House to consider these objects. The causes had been referred to the distresses of war, and to the oven. tions of the Orders in Council —and it was true, that no outrage had been committed since the ,e3 t l i f Juine. But one feature of the case wtitilA b, or o t !t ,,a unless it were allowed, that tho ng ! ' t:,. or i gin of the evil might have been commercial, yet it had as , un te d a political character, and was n w aimed to & limy all property and wealth. Ibe dittresses 4.1 ih, ct tu t . try had furnished a golden opportunity to t 1 m e tut . billent ipirits, who can only cis,: to the top by m- ans of agitation. These men had seized the occasion to delude and ruin the distrossed manufzcsiiret s . H i agreed 06 the Honourable Member for York 4, „; that much of the mischief was to be attrbuted tot * publication of calumnies against public men. He did not mean to impugn the liberty of the pros: it was as necessary as the air we britubed,bot if t h e air was agitated into storm, or the free press dim e * its efforts to the destructiiai of his character o r re► perty, he thought he 'might use legal means Carla defence in one case, as tie would adopt an ifi cid means fur his shelter in the other. In order to ni b tain the peace of the c, entry, it was above an th is necessary, that the Government 1 should be a tm and it could only be strong and efficaciou s ky t h i r, ing a disposition to listen to and relieve allo nyms t . — an jubtification of the measures now p eopled, is could state, that represent duns had bee n ma d e w Government for acme months on account of die t & turbid state.rf eiose northern districts ; net was it right to reflect on die Magistrates, it they hadtcn the usual means inadequate to die preservatio n ei t h i peace. He did not know that (;overnment had dal all that could have Inc!' dome; perhaps motet* have beta effected by mean s o f use secretme.; service ! ney, and the stipendiary police --yet, at au, r del Parliament should not now withhild its aid : ahid. reluscd, would encontage the dibc-ntented is a l same proportion, as et would, if granted, ittspiorth e Magistrates in their elution's Tbere were tw o r „.. 1 ciples which should be-kept m sight ; one was, at the Bill should be temporal, and oor the show 1 possible time, and the mitt that no poW er shooldtt given to Magisuates, escrpt what is absolutely m g:tired t• for.so.muela power as is given to the*. gistrate, su much is taken away from the subject— 'file Honourable Gent!, man then expressed it deal his approbation of the claus..s of the Bill, except I'4 which empowered any two Magistrates to scut s et raan's aims on demand. The principle Lai whit" alone any seizarE 01 alms was jus , ifiabie, was, thatis those disturbed places it would be mere coudocinto the general safety that arms should be taken poses. sion of by the Magistrates, than that they sheralil be seized by the disaffected—yet, there was chicon. sequence likely to et:sue, that by taking away a man's arms, they took away his best security amid the attack of these robbers.—The Honouraale Gee tleman then sat down amid cries of Hear, Hear, lion the Ministerial Benches. Mr. FITZGERALD thought the speech of di. last Honourable Member a complete answer to the speech of the Member for Bedford, in all thAtrelatei to the character and foam of the distinbaicesties under discussion. The Honourable Member fieln . ford had founded his objections to the Bill ea we grounds—individual instances of misconduct wit dart of Magistrates, and the manner in which a simi. I lar weasure was executed in Ireland. but thew. 1 stance of Magisterial misconduct was almcbt.too de , ; picable to .be mentioned ; and with respect to he land, it ought not to be forgotten in what a statethst country was at the time of adopting those IMAMS I He could state, from his own knowledge, that tie I acts which mere afterwards sanctioned by the Eat i lish Parliamen t —the A rms A ct , an d t h e lnsurrw tionary Act, were never in any 0.. e instahceenlorced alter their re-enactment. As to the argument shwa the t racticat.ility. of obtaining a peace, be mall thought it wits one from which the Hon. Member should most alefully have aliXtained, tuiless be had felt convinced that their was cone possibility ciao tabling it on honourable terms ; and on no other term he was happy to hear, would that Hon. Gentienus consent that it should be o...tained: Sir FRA NCiS BURDEI.7 observed, that the Member for Cambridge had expressed his opiaicer, that the cumoinatiolis were estemely elangeroos,asd (Ailed tor extraordinary powers to suppres ; but se (Sir F.) could not agree with the Hun. A-mber be low him (Mr. Whituread) that there was nurse& tient evidence to support the preamble of the bill. He was no Iliend to esti.. me measures—it was co, mon for bad Governments to push matters tumid:► ties,and then to make those very extremities a growl for extraordinary measures. He did mean to impel such conduct to the present Administration . —K such was the metbod of proceeding, which a badCt vernment could always adopt if it pleased. Ow. the present Bill, he disliked it altoetrier—lie v gli its title—it was called a bill for P ihe preset ,„, the peace : it ought Co have been called hial• disturuing *the peace of counties by giving estor: dinary powers to Magistrates. He was 1t1104101.. creasing the power of those authorities, as he dot it had been already abused ; they had been ge4 l l. the most improper acts in the employment of 1 1 111 and instigators of crime—a speciesot meschievous . ss! duct, which waerusu a lly imputed only to the doh The Metilber for Camb,:tige waived a strong Goa' went; he (sir F.) thought the Gove;ninent 0 0 strong enough ; it had strength to carry any mes o P! it pleased, against either the laws or the constitution and, indeed, the members of it tuok credit to tho selves foi having, in the present Bill, producid o . o l_ a slight infringement of the Constitution, when tag would have been fully supported if they ha s ti to Z posed much greater violations of the accu law. He saw no necessity for the present mes° .. __! Ministers . themselves did not deny that the. di' bances were subsiding, and yet this was sbe_ :!: when every man's liberty was to be put et discretion of the suspicions of the MAgi su c l t ir. That those men were very capable of error, r almost daily instances in the papers. There. wa ste ....a lately detailed, where two young men, who 14 . 'l' i employed to work in a gentlenian' had very naturally contracted an intimacy . obnossoul servants, had, on that account, become . ~s ages the gentleman , and were by him carried mg Magistrate. This Magistrate, who WAS 4 s house , cy p and a ao I II C