Star. — London, England, 1813-11-24 00:00:00

lURZLiMEtitIAr I s t6ting D$ iAliiDS s . NOitattio.-sis, . The Loan MI, the Malt, ate. Dian Bill, the Local Tawas • Bill, and,the Aseentior4t Grid!!'* NU, were read a Second time, and committed for to : moirow: • INSOLVENT DEB/1131t3. LordELLENBOROUGH said, he was happy to see his Noble and Learned Friend (Lord Redes. dalei in hisplace, for which he had waited, in.order to introduce a Bill for the immediate relief of a Mime. rous class of persons. now confined in the different 'eels, who, in consequence. of the difficulties that had occurred in the' execution of the Act of last Session, Could not -be otheritise liberated for. a considerable time to rionse, ,Thaßill, he was about to introduce Contained a clause Air repealing the Act of list Sea ` sion, he being of opinion that there would be a consi derable difficulty, if fit was not altogether impracti cable, fob tbis,Bill and the Act of last Session to be both executed at the same' ime. Tbe Bill afterwards contained sintilar' provisions to the Insolvent Act of .ths I Ittr,George 111. They were unlimited in point. tesurti ti and there was also a proviso that the. notices wpm under.the Act of last Session should be Witider the pre-Sent Bill.. His Lordship presented the•BilD which war read a first time. - Lard ftZDESDALE said, he had in the Morning optettylotigeediessation with Mr. Serjeent Palmer, and .be was litisfitid that the difficulties which had arisen in the eie l ciltiotti t of the Act might be easily re moved. The Princfp . 4l difficulty arose as to the ap pointMent of assigneee,. it not being easy to find per sons willing to undertake ills office, from the strict manner in which they were tailed upon by the Act to account. This, however, might be obviated by constituting an Officer similar . to the Clerk of the Peace in the counties, to whom, under the temporary Insolvent Bills, the effects of the debtors discharged were in the first instance assigned. Another difficulty had been stated respecting tbil place of the sitting of the Court ; but the words 'wake; that the Commis sioner should ordinarily sit in London, or Westmin ster, or the county of Middlesex, which certainly Meant that he should not regularly sit there, antiAhe intention was, that .he should have . power, to move from place to place, as occasion might . retrire. ; The difficultY respecting the taking examinations . might also be easily obviated. With respect to the Court of Appeal, the clause consituting it he. had inserted et, the suggestion, of : others, and all, Abe:diffsculties' Arising from it might be.easily removed by,repealing ' the Clause it not appearing to him at all tsecesseg, there - shOulttbei Court of Appeal, as he *o.eesti-- -triticed-thlt the decisions Of the Cornmissionetl4Sild be perfectly satisfactoi, and all that would•betertuie site: .Another objection had been started, thtt . the Act did not extend to Wales'. heat the fact was, that by an Act pissed, expressly for the purpose, all Actt Of Parliament aPplicable - to *F.Agland extended also to Waled tied Berwiek.dportlTsiteed. The vast number Of persons now confined forlebt in the different gaols was certainly .very extsaprdia4ry, -hut as it was isu. possibleto...coneeiveobat under the circumstabcee 04 the passing of the . A.erof lard Session, creditors would have put theft. debtor s' trs' prtsun with any Vietie to the tlavteent of their debts ;. the Only inference was, that a great number of those at present confined had con trived to place themselves there in order to get a dis charge 4 fsons their , delits;'..pr. to be what was con?, fuonly 'called whireutehid. In this opinion lie will confirmed by the circumstances of several persons haring obtained their release by compromising with their , creditors, alledging that they could aot wait - so long as would be necessary to obtain their discharge* uAder Chia Oct. The fact was, that there were a tiutinbir of . persons who bad Jived for. several years, and 'who lived well,"tvithout having any thing ; this they had done by the plunder of thoii who were now their creditors. 'The great iiisehlef of temporary In. aolvens Bills' had been,' that persons of this descrip tion, as well as others, had been discharged, without any regard to the interests of their creditors, and Without taking to, proper means of making their pro' l efty available or the discharge of theit debts. Thus at happened, that many who were very clamorousibr the passing of the Act of last Session, were now equally clamorous against it, because they found 4iey tould trot be discharged with the same ease and eon• iiniencies as under a temporary Bill: He could not, therefore, consent to the clause proposed by the Noble and Learned Lord, for repealing. the Act of last Ses sion, nor did he see the least diffictilty (for the pur pose of gettidg rid of the present ptessure) in giving an option to the parties applying for relief,..ll take the benefit either o f t h e permanent Act, of the temporary measure. There were certainly many' who, for reasoos which it would be. too long now to detail, who woulJ prefer hiving their discharge under the former, and it would undoubtedly be a greaon juiStice and injury to those' (upwards sou) whii had given •notites tinder the - Aced last Sesrtioir, hid gone through all the regular forms ! and many of whose cases were appointed. to be heard in the:course Of a few days,, nnw to repeal the A.c.i.. tech*, therefore, their Loidships constpt ARIA: peal the ACt'of last - Se s sion, *Kai' after the present. pressure was 'got over ; • would, be - waS . Consiinced,' be permatiently beneficial * and it would indeed be mote ettraordinary,. if that principle of law, that of the riale4eiryttoestrltit-b had been. fctgcl .upon without dif tilittlty Zr a long period in Von:ma and in fliotland; could not be also carried into effe c t idl n glaid. Lerd HOLLAND thought, that for the-Legisla ture to.repeaLtheAct-of last Session, would be stul tifying holf f endqq pass a temporary, Bilk would be **sorting to a mostrniselnerous And nrilust.Mode of litislation, When they had ilie'sonnd principle. already entisntlieil 'in that Act; which, to the credit 'and ho e:our of the Noble and Learned Lord (Lord Redes. fele) be had devoted so much of his time and atten tion na prepire.. Let them not lay the flattering unc. hoe to their soils, that if the /Let was repealed, and a tertipetery Insolvent - Bin substituted, the sound principles of legislation would again be resorted to.— Theiweisld then be exposed again to all the evi/s and mischiefs of these temporary Insolvent Bills, which hail for so many - years proved so injurious to the in terests of the community, boat :which he hoped were happily 'got rid of by th e Act of last Session. Why not, by an amended - Bill;reenizive thedifficultiesithieh had occurred in the' execution of that Act, and - thui render it effective for its intended purposes ? This appeared to him the only wise course, and he muss therefore oppose the- remedy proposed by his Noble rid Learned Friend (Lord Ellenborough.) • . • • Liar d EL UNDO iteUGH said, he had tone of that folio prlikyarbiets faiirdttember df tiatelLeglsla tun, would leadlim to coiadeilfielfselrdileta6d by acknowledging an error; 'nor 'did he conceive that the Legislate ,wookl.";be hy - acknoiv. .ledging that they find , been erroneous in passing the- Act•of last Session. He, however, 'wits willing to lend hii isiiitaneo (if kcciiited) to 'his Noble and Learned Friend, in. amending that Act, which car , tainly required many alterations. He saw no oh*. tion to repealing the clause Tektite to the COM of Appeal, being perfectly convinced that the decisions of Mr. Serjeant Miner would be thoeoughly satitlitc tory. With respect r; also ,to ,assignee;, it vcit4dbe necessary to have an o ffi cer similar to the Cle r k of the Peace, and it wouldiikeliie be "tieteskarf id glee übiquity to the sittings of the Commissioner. Them were many other points which required attention, if his Noble and Learned FriencrwOild Undertake the task of amending tilt* Act He was' ashostik to thi principle of temporary Insolvent Vaills t as the Noble Lord( Lord Holland) but he had introduced this Bill as the only praddeabk meinti of giving relief, withottf delay,. to those whose,expeccations been : oo)sigbly eicited. The Bill was ordered to be printed, MILITIA. SERVICE BILL., Dn the motion 4 1 E0 BATHURST;the Iltiot Service Bill was read a third time.' • -' •=•• The Duke of N9ll.} 7 Q4K..askmk s with respect tr the limitation of service l in Europe, what would be the effect incase of Milititittitehed to the line being sta tioned, for instance, at Gibraltar, and being ordered to the opposite coast ? • Earl BATHURST taid, that those who vcilim teered as Militia would not be attached to the line, and therefore there would be no difficulty. The Earl of LIVERPOOL Observed, that those Militia regiments. (thtee-fourths) who volunteered as Militia, would be on service as such.; and that those. companies who volunteered as Militia, would be for. med into provisional battalions as Militia, Under Field' Officers of Militia. Neither would be attached to the line, and therefore there would be no difficult y: T hose individualaWbo volunteered into tile line, would, Of •course, become incorporated with it. • ThODuke of NORFOLK was satisfied as to these points, but wished. to know what would be the effect of a portion of a company under. a subaltern volun: teering T Earl BATHURST said, that if, they volunteered aemijitip they would be incorporated with a provi siiinaLhattalion of Militia, and considered as such. Tbe.,Duke I of,NORFASLK expre ssed himself per satisffesT - with these explanations, and stated his deterMinationin the regiment which he had the ho. COOT tp command, to give every possible effect to the melisiire, intimating, of course to the men, that what they did was to he perfectly voluntary. The. Bill was passed without amendment. THE CLERGY. Lord HOLLAND presented a petition from Mr. Wright against the Clergy Penalty Suspension Bill, .pr4ing to be heard by himself or Counsel against it. His Lordship stated, Thule preseated the Petition, it. 'brio& couched in respectful vitae", but that in the *Bill he cordially concurred. The petition was read, stating along detail respec tingnonlesidence of the clergy, Ste. that the petitioner had commenced several actions against the incum benit for penalties undo - the Non-residence Act, and iiteirred much expence, arid that he shouldhe injuted 'in a petuniary point of view, by the passing of thebill. . The LOAD CHANCELLOR suggested, that if a shorter petition was presentediltating merely the injury which the petitioner would sustain by the pos ing of the Bill,. the House would probably hear him by Counsel. • • • ' Some conversation upon this point took place, when it was at length determined that the petition should lie on the table, with the Understanding that, on a shorter petition being presented, confining itself to the point of grievance which the petitioner :,would sustain by the passing of the'Bill, the House would hear him by Counsel against it. Adjourned till to.morrow (this day). 'I 11/OUSE OF COMMONS. lard HENLEY presented a Petition from the Losolvent Debtors confined id the Castle of Lancaster, complain olds. delay whick lot taken place in the execution of.the Insolvent Acts'. Mr. BANlUntliwed for an account of the net pr9dnat (gale Assessed Taxes the years 1810, 11,.18 and 13.—Ordered. The House bag resolved Itself into a Cotumittee on the Police Act, Mr. itILEY ADDINOteN proposed a Rieelntion, that a Bill be brought In to septa' the said Acts - and ea4Ct ether provi sions In Its stead. • The Committee agreed fo this Resolution, and the House having resumed, a Bill was ordered to be brought in accordingly. ..The arose, on the motion of Mr. VANSITTAIt r, resolved.it. i nto * committee on the Sugar Drawback Acts, • Mr:: V ANSff FAR I: proposed a Resolutioire to continue the several bounties on the eXportation of this article without alters• thili, the 'Acts 'which authortted - the payment of them having nearly expired. The Committee agreed to the Resolution, and the House hay big:resumed, the Report was ordered to be received to-morrow. LONDON MILITIA. ItrlS bblelnetl leave to bring in a Bill to enable his Majesty to accept the services of a cer . tall; proportion,.of the. Militia of the City..of London ant of the United Kingdom fOr the prose cution of the strar. ' • MA lAEA DUTY. The "House having resolved itself into a Coinntittee on the Duty on Madder, The CHANCELLOR of the EkCIfEI2IIJER said, that the circumstances of the duty on Madder were attended 'With considerable diffitulty. In the present circumstances 'of the Continent, but little Madder being obtained thence, the duty bore very hard on the inferior article - Which was obtained from Turkey. .There were . so many descriptions of this article, that it Was difficult to make any such distinc tion as would be effectual; as the Value of different species of the article varied from . 255. to 10 guineas per hundred: The only method,' therefore, of im posing the duties which would be resorted to, was by making the tax ad valorem. The Fjouse was aware i of the nconveqiencics which in general arose froth this species of duty, the disputes and seizures Which it gave rise to. But the duty which bkintencicd to pro pose was so moderate (being 5 per cent. only), that there would belittle temptation to evade the payment of a part of it by entering the article below its value. This do t t 5 per tent. it Vasi comptited, Would pro duce to _ revenue a, sum etistal that produced by the present dity of six Shilfisgs per huadred weight. Itc 11- et if eyes a diminution of the revenue were the eon se9T9lcei the Home weidei *roe with him, that thee teifesebla Wtt , / 're on so • to -.`traiof •k . ~ ~; .. 1 4 1 11 1 ;t 1 sus. &Kt* tvoiitacinie iijarlcpttais; shoUlA r.bett-toiti a itetoltiiibi, tint *& preied atier ;crase,'andlnlts stead that Mikes be- fa3pOsed 'a altty a per cent: The Resolution was agreeA to, after whit'hihe . Douse resumed . and the iteport was ordered to be • '•: p 1 a. , .....,... t ...• . • ... .. iatITARtY..AARANGEIkt#, ...... , r Lord PALMERSTONE Otained leave to bring 'in the Annial Mutiny Bal. The BilL was brought Fin, read a first time . , and ordefeit to - be read a second • tithe - to-Itiortalv;" ' ' " ' 1 . Sir W.CUATIS brought-in the Londoo - Maid& WI, which was read a first time, and ordered to. Mk: r e ad a second time to-mor ro w. - - .etiv.ttneristhou g ht it right to state, thitt l ihtiligh eintra intipertion of the Militia' were allowed to ratree - out of kin gdom by the Bill, yet the Cor poration of London, is Common Council, had given their oonsenetbat.the whole of both regiments should terve abroad, as they were, and he doubted not that they,eitetheir gallant olficeri would have done - lio hour to their country. - ' - -' ,' A"L'. '- :, : LOrd'CASTLEREAGH said, that the NoWill Ilktist feel that the City of London had done itself her t0ir,..4 thii proceedi . ng, b4 . . r tliat . * Majesty's Mi. titttets did not think it eog -4egt to "sent npre than fint'stited - prbportion. - '''- ' • - '- -. ''' T .LiSrd bititTLERE AGltagain idsi, id pursuan ce I of notice, teCtill dicattentiOn of the Houk to some fur ther military arrangements`which he presumed would not be found inconsistent with the spirit of those which the House had already agreed to. 'lt was pos sible that the circumstances of the country would not iettufre that the arrangements which he had to pro- pose.should be resorted to, but it was i nten d e d topro l vide against possible inconvenience from those troops' being ordered abroad which were now placed at the j disposal of the Crown. The Ministers of the Crown hid tict thought it expedient, notwithstanding the ciir ctunstances of the times, to propose any fund a m e h ta l 1 iteration in the militia system, being convinced that this body and theveLocal Militia were as well formed and regulated as auypilitary force could be; butzases might possibly soon arise when both these valuablebo dies might be enabled to render a service to their &inn try, which their spirit would render grateful to them.- The propositions, therefore, which he should submit to the considytation of the House, would neither be prOductive of any fundamental change, nor be incon sistent with good faith and the limited nature of their engagements to their country , but all that was desi red was to enable their country to profit from the spontaneous effusion of their spirit and good will., The first branch of his propositions was as to the Lo cal Militia, the substance of which was to enable 'his Majesty to accept an extension of the itgriiite of &is . valuable body within the kingdom, When' the lirge proportion of the regular militia, which was allowed to extend their service, may have been ordered abroad. The Local Militia was now subject by law to two de scriptions of duty : ili: first for a limited time, and for the purpose of trditsing only'; the second, unlimited in point of time, and which might be extended to any part of Great Britain ; but. this could only be exacted from them in case of rebellion or invasion. Happily such was the state of the kingdom, that neither of these afflictions was even remotely to be apprehended; and amply - was any such event pro: ' vided against; for the Local Militia and the Yeoman Cavalry of .this country, and the Yeomanry of Ire land (a body not inferior to any in discipline and effectiveness), formed an army of 500,000 effective men;' Well' armed and disciplined. When theffiad seen the conduct of the Silesian battalions to recentlf called forth to the defence of their country, they might rest satisfied, when they contemplated the cha racter of Britons, that the internal tranquillity of the , country was 'stiatalsntly secured against disturbance. There were, )I.loole, some services at home which it was neceeektlif reside for. There were iii this country a tai giettuber of prisoners taken from the enemy (Na,4r kifie): For such were the circum stances of France,- that the number of its subjects prisoners in the power of the different States opposed to it, and together with those shut up in garrisons, amounted, perhaps, to a larger army than was at the disposal of any power in. Lump (Hear, J'ear), The duty of guarding these prisoners; as well as - the police,' and some other dutiel of this kind, might be well sup• plied by' the. Local Militia. The arrangements he should propose. would make as littleOlteration in the duties of the Local Militia consistently with these ob jects. The dist Once 'to which they might be sent from their country'was to be restricted, as no possible Con , venience could iesultftom sending them from one end of the kingdom to another. - The time also was to be limited, for instead of the 28 days allowed for train ing in their - Iron 'county, they would be glowed to serve doting this time, with' an additional period, during which' they might repair to and return from some place where their service would be useful.— The time would not be pushed beyond six weeks, in chiding the time of going and returning. The service for the performance of which it was necessary to pro vide, would, he hoped, be thus performed without making any ungenerous call on the spirit (high as it was) of those troops. This was the substance of this part of his proposed arrangement which re lated to the Local Militia. Under the existing law it might be proper to remind the House) the Lord Lieutenants were enabled to call these troops out OfiheirYeipective counties in case of iiotsor tumults. -As to the Regular Militia, the arrangement was fodnded on the same principles. It did not lon 1 them to undertake any thing; the only object to 5 , 'enable the Crown to accept a small extension the services of the portion of the force which remained within the kingdoin. Under the existing law one fourth only of the English Militia, and one-third of the Irish Militia, were allowed to serve out of their respective part of the United Kingdom :—neither could any regiment of English Militia be called on to serve in Ireland within :ix years from the time when it had last been in that kingdom; nor could any . regiment of Irish Militia be called on to serve in England within four years from the time of its service in this country. The proposition he should submit to the House, would enable the Govern- Dint to accept the services of those Militias out of 'their rotation, for one yeas. The measure would tot saabk these troops to volumes; literally, but is . • •• •—• • .% • 1.• •, 1 1 •••• 1 at • ' 11 1 10.104 Rotri. it v iii dot nfodiorplioe, to deigiukkbe. house loognfi is asoentlg for Save !xi, bring in . ihe Bib, as die Coin- r - naligteeweaddlie the proper place for lu'rtheidetailij bee he should touch cone or two other points respecting • ;which he should also move for leave to bring in Bilk. Without departing from the established principles of • the measure adopted by the Legislature, encourage ment might begiventoilrat extension of their servicetia the pen of the Militia which the Government was ena: bled t° accept. One proposit:on was, that the time of service in the Militia should not be lost by a man on entering info the line, but-that it should be allowed, not lode -d to its full proportion. There was a precedent for tliiiatratigemftet, as service in the West Indies was reckoned at an increased proportion. Thus the Militia man would not enter the regulars as a rccruit,but would carry with him those honours of long service, and a title,-In par 4 to those . advantages which at the end of seven or fourteen years the regular soldier is entitled to, and which are so great ;n encouragement to him. There was a very valuable body of men in the • Militia for whom it was painful to think that nothing - had yet been done ; he meant the non-commissioned officers- The footing on which they stn)d was, that in which they were placed in former times, when the Only duty of the Militia was tt,be called•out toe one month in the year. The condition in which they wei6 !placed was such, that they were obliged to continue in the service when most unfit for it, or to retire on the small pittance of two-pence a-day—this being the' largest pension which was in the power elite 'Colonels to grant. He should, therefore, propose , the extension of this pension—not indeed to the same amount as that of the non commissioned officers of the Line, but 4.) far that when worn out in the see. vice, these valuable men should not he left in cum; piece indigence. The act of volunteering for tempo. rary foreign service, he proposed, should advance the time wheothe pension would becomedue, and every year of extended service would be equal to two years of ordinary service ; s that this arrangement wouli act as an auxiliary to the extension of the services of the Militia. In another particular, he should pro: , pose to assimilate the Militia to the Line. The Sur. . geons of this body were at present so inadequately rewarded, that it was to be wondered at that Gentle men of respectability consented to disch irge the duty. He hoped, therefore, that Parliament would consent to make their provision more respectable.— This was the 'outline of' his pteipositions as to the Militia. The 60th Regiment v f was well known. was compoied of foreigners, limited as to extent: —He should propose to extend the regiment from seven battalions to any 'number of bit talions nut exceedinl; ten. His Lordship concluded by moving [ for leave to bring in a Bill to enable his ht,jesty - to accept the service of the Local Militia nut of their respective counties, with certain restrictions, and fir a limited period. • Mr. WHITBREAD rose and said, it appeared from the motion of the Noble Lord, that this modifi cation of his former plan had been adopted in conse quence of the late glorious events in Holland, in con ! sequence of which he was desirous that every facility should be. given to the collection of a large military force. Never was there a more favourable oppor. 'tunity for the employment of the whole military force of the country. Never was there an event in history' which so urgently called on the efforts of this tree country—(Hear,- hear)—to exert their whole military force in asserting the liberty of another country.— As to the particular motion in the hand of 'the Speaker, never was there a time when, except from the unfortunate circumstance of the necessary detention of so many prisoners, and for the ordinary ,duties of the police, the service of any troops within the kingdom was less required—(Ntae, hear).— • Never, most happily, was there more internal peace • and tranquillity (hear.)—The abundant, arvest, with which, by the blessing of PROVIDENVE, we had been . favoured, had caused that cheapness which, co-ope rating with returning employment to awl' maitufac. turers, had dried up all the sources of discontent.... (Hear.)—The discontents thus appeased, proved sa tisfactorily that which he had contended for •at the time, but which had been disputed by swine, that thole disturbances had arisen in necessity alone, which now having ceased, the disturbances ceased with it. had reposed confidence in the Government, in con. side ration- of the proper use which they would make of it. But now, one voice, from the centre to the circumference of the empire, called on them to exert all their force in the assistance of the Dutch.— The war was now their own—a war of the people— • no longer a war of Sovereigns. It was because that was not a war of the Prussian people that the Prussian Monarchy was overturned at Jena. It was that Mir was • - a war of the Prussian people, that the Prussian Mo. - narchy now existed. It was that the Russian people would not suffer (as it is said) their Government' tts accept terms of peaCe, that the mighty army which entered the Russian territory never returned. It was that the people of Sweden got rid of a Government which was unfit to rule them, by a bloodless revolu tion, and elected from the French armies that g reat Captain, who was enabled to contend with him, by - whom he had formerly been commanded,' that they saw thesglorious results of the battles which had beets • fought. It was that the energies of the people of France were called forth by the Revolution, that the French Ruler had possessed the power which he had so lately wielded—it was, that these energies were spent under his despotism—that,- with the aid of his inordinate ambition, this mighty power cruatbied to dust in his hands. The people of England, he doubted not, would give to the Crown any power which might be directed to so holy a cause. The time of the year was also peculiarly favourable to the collection of military fotee. It was discreet and wise in the Ministry to propose only a limited power over the Local Militia ;—and happily the season that the wen might be applied to the services which they Were to fulfil with less inconvenience than to the . [ works of agriculture than at any other time, and every disposition (he doubted not) existed on the [ part of the officers end men to relieve those troops which were disposed of on more efficient service.— I With these measures and opinions he agreed. But in assisting others we should not forget ourselves—while *indicating the liberties of other nations, we should not forget our own—nor should we forget the large share of influence thrown by these measures into the hands of the Crown. We should recollect, that how. ever necessary events might have rendered these :nes sures, they put its the power of the Crows more in.