Star. — London, England, 1820-07-07 00:00:00

/ . • . . . . • • • • ih.......e.. ..* ; _ i____ -•-- - second readings if Divorce Mt WO 140E1114k We how the Learned Counsethad gone beyond the lino, with referent* to a 'case of etis 'peculiar kind, ler • prescribedv -*gm . . till:slight no unnecessary delay next he should be given, and Mr. BROUGHAM then resumed, and pressed the ge - he had distinctl y stated, that on ,Menday steral line of argument he was engaged in, repeat. shouldpropose the day which he should deem pro. jag, that it was the principal wish of her Majesty, per for the second reading of the Bill; that course, in thus recurring to their Lordships, to deprecate all he still meant should be pursued, .and he trusted* further delay, and to conjure them to decide upon full attendance would take place. 'He repeated, that the Bill as expeditiously as the forms of their Lord- on Monday next he should proposes. day for the se ships' House would admit; her chief object being coad reading of tbe Bill in.question, ild moved that so secure to herself that which the humblest of the for that day the Lords shOuld be summoned. King's subjects were entitled to, namely, a full, fair, Lord HOLLAND sar i. the Noble Earl opposite and impartial trial. had proposed to post pone the further consideration Mr. DEN then addressed the House. He said, of this. subject. Queens by her Counsel, had that, having been commanded by his Illustrious prayed at their Bar, that the trial might proceed with Client that morning to enforce her demand at their all possible speed ; .and he now, under such circum- Lordships' Bar for an immediate prolecution of the 'characte r es, yelled on Ministers, for the sake of their own Proceedings that had been instituted against her, he , for the sake of her Majesty, and for the could, slot be said to be wholly unprepared on heir sake of the country, to suffer no unnecessary delay to Lordships instructions , that her Majesty's Counsel interpose in opposition to the wishes of her Majesty. should confine themselves to certain points. He then When the Noble .Earl talked of Bills of this deserip urged the absolute necessity under which her Majesty tion, he wished to know what was his meaning ? He was placed to relieve her character at the earliest wished to know tO what description of Bills tone l • moment from the severe, imputations that had been held to belong? Was it a Bill of Divorce, or of alleged against her.. However - imperfect her means Pains and Penalties? If the Noble Earl wished to of defence—howevet.deprived of the instruments,to regulate his conduct by precedent, he must look to repel the deadly attacks upon her honour, her Ma- former Bills, and to the manner in which they had jesty was anxious to meet her accusers face to face—if been brought in. If he did this, he would find that possible at this very instant—but, at furthest, after all delay after a Bill had been brought in, was un the lapse of 24 hours. Her Majesty required nothing usual. There appeared to be some foundation for one at their Lordships hands but justice. It was his duty of the reasons urged by the Noble Earl for the delay to separate the question of time from that of charge; intended to be proposed. if proceeded_with irnme it was a Bill of Divorce and Degradation, without a diately, they could not have the benefit of the assist verdict of a Jury, and without sentence pronounced ante of the Judges of the land, which was most in the Ecclesiastical Court, and at the same time they anxiously io.be wished for on this awfully important were. told that the charge had been known for sit occasion. This was the only good re a s on that he had years. He was aware, in a case where the Sovereign heard suggested for the course intended to be pur was a party, that the proceedings he had alluded to sued. It however appeared to him, that when were not necessary ; but if that was not the case, her they were about to. institute a punament not sane- Majesty would have had an opportunity of defending turned by any existing law, they ought at least to give herself in both Courts, and it would be then a question the accused every advantage that could consistently whether, where a wife was abandoned by her husband, be afforded.• He called upon the Noble Lord to say would not be a mitigation, where a divorce was a s ked what he. meant by ~n ecessar y arrangements ?" - Did for? He begged not to be understood as confessing guilt he mean. to say that time was wanted to enable Mi on the part of the Illustrious Lady accused, b ut as nisters to bring forward further witnesses ? Was it her Counsel he used the argument. She called for to be understood) that the evidence which had been no delay ; she was only anxious to see at their Lord- laid before the Select Committee wasnot now thought ships' Bar the witnesses that dared to accuse her.— sufficient to bear out the case—that it was not suf. He, as one of her Majesty's advisers, wished to have ficient to carry them through the inquiry ? If it trati a list of the witnesses that were to support the accusa- intended to bi ing forward additional evidence, this tion, and he could not conceive how it could be de- ought to be so stated by Ministers. Unless this were the ca s e, he could not sec why they should wish for nied. The charge was thought by some to amount further delay. Ministers had been in the p ossession to High Treason ; if it by a Grand Jury, who share obliged to was such, a Bill must be be of the evidence laid before the Secret C o m mittee for found open Court, and on that oath to inquire more than a year, and if this were deemed suf fi cient , sworn in lie could not see why they should not be able to pro whether there was ground for finding a Bill, and if the Bill was found, a•list of witnesses was handed to ceed, when such was the wish of the acc used, to tr y the accused party, for the purpose of inquiring into the merits of the question without delay, instead of their characters ; but in the present proceeding that asking, as they now did, for time to make further advantage was denied, and he did not know but it Preparations. might be considered, 'by his Learned Friend and The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, the Bill now be himself, to be their duty to abandon her Majesty's fore their Lordships was a Bill of Pains and Penalties, and who defence 14 that reason, and leave it in the hands of wholly different from a common Divorce Bill. corn those who had brought forward the accusation.— The same deliberation was not necessary in a From the reign of Henry VIII. there was no piece- mon Divorce Bill, where an individual pray e d for relief, as in a case like dent for such a proceeding ; as from th a t time ever y , was to be decided, and the present, where the fate of individual had been dealt with alike , and made the Queen of England where to the law of the land in the same way. the course of proceedings so deeply affected the ho amenablene had heard of Bills of Attainder ; but the only ex- nour of the Crown, and the moral interests of the. case he had ever heard for them was dire necessity, country. This was not the case of an individual, but which did not arise in this case. When he considered a state measure, brought forward for the relief of a the Commission which had been sitting in a foreign' nation. To him it did not appear that it ought to it was w he n surprise country, and what passed in it regularly reported to exc i te p ro posed to deter till the Ministers of the Crown , there Monday the fixing the second reading of the Bill. It could be no excuse for delay. There was another circumstanceit had was to be remembered that her Majesty's Counsel, trial might pro come to her Majesty's knowledge who the witnesses who had that night prayed that the were, and if they were one hundred times as many , , ceed with all possible expedition, had the last t ime all she wished for was, that she and the Public shonld they appeared , at their Lordships' bar, desired that a be informed of the contents of the green bag, as delay of ten weeks might be allowed to enable her, Majesty to prepare for her defence. He begged that she had no fear of what it contained, for she knew he might -not be understood to speak in any way dis the infamous soar ct: it sprung from. She not only respectful of the Learned Counsel who had advised I wished for a list of the witnesses, but she considered this course. They might be justified in calling for the contents of the green bag to be her's and the delay on the former occasion, and yet have very good Public's property. He had no guide to go by in reasons for praying now that the trial might be pro arguing this case but that of the common law ) and seeded with immediately. But after the request he considered the Secret Committee to be a Grand Jury, and their Lordships the higher tiibuna l.— " All which they had urged on the former occasion , it I entreat now (observed the Learned Coun se l) is, that ought not to be a matter of surprise if things were we may be granted a full hearing , and not denied not in such a state of preparation as might other an opportunity of entering into the proof that "the wise have been expected. On Monday it would be conjugal relation has been violated toward s her Ma- for their Lordships to consider whether they would jesty in every particular. If you proce e d without Prosecute the inquiry forthwith, 'or whether some a furt h er delay should take place. The importance of :arty inquiry into those allegations , I cannot help it. f I have done my duty in stating them to your Lord- securing a full attendance on this occasion , and o ascertaining when the Judges could be present, must ships, and if justice is to be done at all, my con be v i c tion is, that it cannot be done without entering felt by every one, and these considerations , after into the investigation which they suggest . — lf hearing her Majesty's Counsel at their bar that night , • anything that I have stated should appear to bear would, he thought, make the House feel that it would be bard upon the stronger party , let it b e remembered right to take till Monday to determine on the way that it is the stronger party has ad v ant a g es which in which it 'would be most desirable to proceed. the weaker does not possess. It has been said that The Marquis of LANSDOWN,• though not pre this Bill, though it proceeds to degrade or divorce, pared to say that the trial ought not to go on imme ciiately, vk as of opinion that twenty-four hours ought is not a Bill.of Pains and Penalt i e s . Is it no p ain, is not to pass before Ministers came to a decision whe it no - penalty to her Majesty to be accusell on the tiler they would proceed to the trial forthwith, or Report of a Secret Committee , wi th out having any not. He wished them to consider whether the ends opportunity of hearing the charges against her, or of knowing who were her accusers? I sa y , my Lords, of justice would be promoted by the course now sug that if ever there was a Bill of Pains and P enalties in gested? and, if not promoted, whether it would not the strictest sense and meaning of the word , the B ill be detrimental to them to interpose four days of un necessary delay? Having hitherto had the good for which I now hold in my hand is on e. But this is not all. Not only will this Bill , if carr i e d, h av e the tune to prevail on their Lordships to agree with effect of punishing her Majesty , b y de g radin g her them in all they had proposed, be thought the Noble from the rank and character wh i ch s he holds as Earl, who now stood in the situation of a public ac , Queen, but she may be liable to impeach men t also, curer, and his colleagues, ought not to require four inand-twenty hours to determine whether ;hey would which case your Lordships w o uld be her Jud g es. Is it then, I ask your Lordships, too much that her proceed with the inquiry immediately, or whether a Majesty should request, or that your Lordships should more tardy course would be preferable. They ought grant, a speedy inquiry into the charges pending not to hesitate, in deciding how this great and- =- against her? I feel, my Lords, that I have not done P°rtant business should be proceeded with, one day my illustrious Client, but I longer thrat was necessary; and he therefore prayed justice to th e case of adopt every sentiment uttered by my Honourable the Noble Earl to consider if he could not_be pre and Learned Friend, and I trust those sentiments Pared to-morrow to state what his view of the subject might be. Their Lordships not being in possession b ar e strongly impressed themselves on your Lord ships. Let me then, m y Lords, in conclusion, im- of all the circumstancesof the case, could not decide; plore you to do that justice to her M a j es ty , and that but the Noble Earl, befog in possession of them , could, whether it would be right to comply with the too as speedily as possible, which she had too much wishes of the Illustrious, though accused Personage. reason to fear would not be shown to her in the course of these proceedings." who was the subject of these proceedings , or whether After the Learned Counsel had withdrawn, a contrary course Was to be preferred. A delay of The Earl of LIVERPOOL rose and observed, four das might materially interfere with the attend- By Monday, many or all Of' the question as arising Qut of what was advanced by *nee o f the Judges. the Counsel was, whether they should go on in th e them would be depudng to perform those duties course decided upon, or hurry on the next import.; , which usually devolved upon them at this period of, ant stage , of the Bill in twenty - four hours I For the r.v. Under these .circumstances, he called upon . the haler he thought no adequate ground whatever . the Noble Lard to say whether he would defer com weateid. Ilbe !nein, &weal between the fest end ; bqg to a dedelea tie the Out is question till noulay ? The TA of CAXNARVON put it to thew ships, :what Inuit be the feelings of the country, if, after the steps , which had been already taken, it should be considered n for them to separgte before they , could detine w at further should be done? Ministers ou ght to be prepared to static codrse it was their intention to take, and they ought to have no private motives for postponing their deci sion on the part they were now to act. But there was one business now in preparation which he thought might not be improperly postponed. He hoped it would not be supposed that the Public were to be amused by a Coronation, and led from the consi deration of this question, to run like bels to a puppet shew. He thought, at a time when a question of such importance, and one that had excited such general interest, was pending, that an attempt on the part of Ministers to captivate by . gaudy pageantry would provoke resentment, and bring down upon them ge neral execration. It would not be well, that they should place the King in a situation of pomp and parade, while his Consort, the subject of an awful inquiry, awaited - the judgment to be pronounced on her case. He hoped that a different course would be pursued, and that he should not have the necessity of bringing this subject again before the Home; an d that the King, if still advised to urge his Coronation at this time, would consult the wishes of the . People, by 'departing from such fatal counsels. Earl GREY hoped, that what had first fallen from his Noble Friend would be attended to by Ministers. He was persuaded, that expressing the painful feel ings he had en the subject, his Noble Friend but ex pressed the opinion of every feeling man in that House and the country. He thought the Noble Earl ought to have been prepared to state the course that was meant to be pursued, and he did not think that it would be too much to urge the Noble Earl to state distinctly what were his views even that night, when he called for delay ; at all events, by the next day he ought to be ready to enter into an explanation. The dispositions and arrangements to which he had alluded, could only depend on one of three things— the time required for producing witnesses to support the Bill:—the steps necessary to ensure so full an at tendance in that House as the importance of the case demanded at this period of the year—and the ar rangements necessary to securing the presence of the Judges to assist with their judicial advice, without which it would not be safe for them to proceed. Now, be would ask, which of these circumstances' could be pointed out, which had not been ltng, or which might not have been long under the considera tion of the Government, and on which they ought not to have been prepared to come to a decision at once? With respect to the witnesses, as their testi mony had been in the hands of his Majesty's Mini sters for the last twelve months, he must suppose that they were all ready to come forward whenever tEey were waited. With respect to the attendance in that House, it was certainly of importance that a full attendance, throughout the long and important inquiry about to be instituted, should be secured; and this might be a matter of some difficulty at this advanced period of the year. But the difficulty and inconvenience of attending the House, their Lord ships, he was satisfied, would feel as nothing . when put in comparison with the discharge of their im portant duty ; and on this point the Noble Earl and his colleagues ought before now to hive decided— As to the Judges, the arrangements for the Circuits 'having already been made, it seemed almost impos sible that the House could have their assistance if the inquire were brought on immediately. He then named the periods at which the Judges were to be at various parts of the country, and shewed, that without interfering with the whole course of the ad ministration of justice, it. was impossible to procure the attendance of the Judges at this period of the year. This he thought an additional reason why the Noble Earl should be called on to-morrow, to state what were ;he circumstances under which it was in tended to prosecute the inquiry, and the time and mode of proceeding. He hoped the Noble Earl would be piepared to state his reasons on the follows ing day. Ile could not think it possible for him to be unprepared to do so, though it might be incon venient, and he therefore called upon him to make his statement to-morrow instead of on Monday, that the House and the accused party might without delay be put in possession of the manner in which k was determined to proceed. Feeling that it was of importance that this information should be given without loss of time, he should move, as an Amend ment, . 1 That their Lordships be summoned for to morrow." The Earl of LIVERPOOL had no particular ob jection to to-morrow being named, but being per suaded that whether the business were brought on as rapidly as the 'Queen's Counsel had desired that it should come on, or was put off till the Judges should return from the Circuits, whatever decision might be come to, the period at which the inquiry might com mence would not be at.all affected by the question, whether the decision should be taken to-morrow or on Monday. He therefore could see no reason why the House should not have till Monday to determine on the course, which, under all the circumstances, it might be most advisable to pursue. Earl GREY said it might as well be decided to morrow as Monday. Lord DARNLEY wished the House to proceed to morrow to determine when the second reading of the Bill should take place. He thought the Corona tion ought to be postponed, and was sorry the Noble Lord on the Woolsack had not listened to what had fallen from his Noble Friend on the subject. The LORD CHANCELLOR begged the Noble Earl's pardon, but assured him that he had heard every word that had been uttered on that point— (A laugh) The Earl of DARNLEY proceeded to state, that the general impression out of doors was, that the Queen would come out of the inquiry innocent. With this impression, he put it to Ministers, what would be the feelings of the People when they saw their So vereign crowned alone, entertaining the opinion that. his Royal Consort ought to be crowned with him ? He hoped his Noble Friend would not find it neces sary to make a specific motion on this subject ; but he earnestly implored the Government to consider of it, and to advise their Sovereign not to persevere in what were understood to be his present intentions, as doing so might possibly lead to results to which he would not more distinctly allude. After a few weds from Lord BILHAVEN and Earl . . •, who declared tt to be bis iotenton 'to Oen his tdatent, the House divided— Foe Earl Gases Amendeient Against It - - . --,st • The origin: l l l room was then carried, and elsi House adjourned. The Home wee HO oe U eep SE ied O e F otil CO e M qe M are O e Nt e to five in balloda for a Committee to consider the merits of the PetitilM the return for the Ear& of Aberdeen. The names of the Contritittee are as follow: T. S. Rice, R. Price, i Williarn Rickford, X H. Trews*, R. P. Scadamore, J. Carter C. Tulk, W. L. Mabaley, J. Inner, T H. Cakraft , & C. Cocks, J. H. Blair, and J. P. 'Grant, Essirs. Lord C. Fitzroy, and the Earl of dountcharles. Lord RUSSELL postponed his motion for an Address for shor ten ing . the trait of imprisonment of &I M. Lopez, el; Tuesday. On the Motion of Lord DIOUNTCHARLES, Accouuti were ordered of all Tuuber imported into Ireland Tor the last ten years. Mr. W. PARNELL brought in a Bill for ameWlng the Tani with respect to the removal of the Irish Poor from kinglaed to belatitis which was read the first time. - MANUMISSION OF SLAVES. Sir J. MACKINTOSH, adverting to the notice which he bed given on this subject yesterday, thought it necessary, in or ' dler to guard against the possibility of being misunderstood, to I ante a little more plainly what his object was. The Motion then related to the existence of certain Laws and Regulations in his Majesty's Colonies, with respect to the power of Masters to Manumit Slaves—laws which were often in their operation crud with respect to the Sloses--unjust to the Owners of them, as well as injurious to the puce and order of the Colonies. His object was to move an•Addrese to his Majesty, praying that he would be pleased to signify to the Governors of the Colander to recommend the gradual repeal of those laws by the respective Legislatures. Ile should be sorry, indeed, to be thought carp ble of entertaining a wish for the sudden emancipation of Slaw* fur he thought it a measure that would be the most injurious to the Slaves themselves. Mr. BERN AL was rare that no one could think for an in stout of imputing to his Ilonout able and Learned Friend a pro ject which was not highly proper. PARLIAMENTARY REFORM. • Mr. HOBUOUSE presented a Petition from Major John Cartwright, upon a subject of the deepest importance, name'., the Constitutional Reform of the Commons House of menu In that period of the Session, and in consequence of the nature of the objects upon which the House was engaged, he ' would not take up the time of the House by any detailed state ment; which would only be proper where it was intended to fol low them up by more distinct measures. The Petition referre to the unconstitutional interference of the Peers of the Realm * the Election of Members to serve in *ornament. From the earliest times up to the present, statutes bad been made, among *hick was that of Westminster, guarding from inch inte rference k the choice of their Representatives by the People, and he wissid remind the House of a Resolution passed at the cam. Haencement of every Session—" It is a high infringement of the liberties and privileges of the Commons, for any Lord of Par liament or any Lord Lieutenant of any County , to concern themselves i in the Election of Members of Parliament." in 1793, a Society, consisting of some of the first characters in the country, represented in a Petition to that House, that 150 of the Members were returned by means of the interference of Peers, and this statement they were ready to verify upon oath. They had shewn, that out of 154 Borough patrons, 71 were Peers. This num ber was subsequently increased to 95, who returned directly or indirectly Members to that House. The Petition was read, and ordered to be printed. MONARCHY OF SOUTH AMERICA. Sir ROBERT WILSON seeing the Noble Lord (Castle. reagh) in his place, wished to ask hint a question of considerable importance to the mercantile and political interests of this coun try. He wished to know from the Noble, Lord, if Govern ment had received any official communication of a proposition on the part of the French Govenunent,not only to recognize the independence of South America, but to place a Member of the House of Bourbon on the Throne which it was intended to ere:t in that country? Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that in the present state of the information in the possession of Government, he should declice answering the question of the Honourable Member. THE QUEEN. Mr. HOLFORD brought up the Report of the Committee appointed to examine the Journals of the House of Lords, in order to ascertain whether any and what proceecings had taken place in that House with respect to her Majesty, and to report their opi nion thereupon to the House. The Report set forth the recent proceedings of their Lordships with re spect to her Majesty, and contained her Majesty's Petition, the prayer of which was negatived by their Lordships; and the Bill which had been brought in against her Majesty, a copy of which had been or dered to be handed to her by the Deputy Usher of the Black Rod. Lord CASTLEREAGH then rose, in pursuance of the notice which he had given last night, to more to defer the order of to-morrow for the adjourned debate upon the subject of the King's Message. Though this motion did not stand first on the Orders, yet he thought tbat he was entitled to bring forward the matter of it under the head of another notice, which stood first, namely, for a motion on the Queen's Answer to the Resolution of the House, the subject of which he would let fall to the ground. In doing so, he thought it most convenient to recal the attention of the House to the situation in which they were placed. Mr. TIERNEY thought he was justified in inter rupting the Noble Lord, for the purpose of asking.. did. the Noble Lord abandon his first notice? and it so, he (Mr. Tierney) thought that the Noble Lord was not warranted in skipping over the notice of his Honourable Friend ( Sir R. Ferguson) with respect to the Milan Commission for the purpose of getting at a notice which stood l ast in the orders ? Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that he made the exposition of the course he intended to pursue, last night, more for the convenience of the House, than with Lview to give any formal notice of a particular proposition. He submitted to the Chair, that he was at liberty to bring forward the subject of the last notice, if it was contained in the first, in the same manner as if the latter notice was not given at all. The SPEAKER observed, that it was impossible he could - give an opinion upon the subject. Tile giving notices at all was mere courtesy. The terms of the first notice, no doubt, were sufficiently etleral to include any proposition with respect to the Queer' but then the difficulty was, whether or not the Nob:e . Lord, after having given two distinct notices c' motions on the same subject, the one standing at the head, the other at the bottom of the paper, was a: liberty to couple the two together.. Mr. CANNING said, that the opposition to t.' course proposed to be pursued,'arese from his Nob Friend's unnecessary candour in giving an ex 1' nation. Such a mode of taking advantage of a dis' position to accothmodatioa, as that which he now witnessed, was not calculated to produce a repetition of those instances of candOur. Mr. ABERCROMBIE admitted that the first notice of the Noble Lord was sufficiently general to inclua any proposition respecting her Majesty. Lord CASTLEREAGH said ) that nude, the 44' I 1 1 1 ti 4 J 4 • •