Star. — London, England, 1812-01-17 00:00:00

' • not for men to foresee erhatld actually occur, and their best plans cotstil only be formed to meet that which could rationally be expected. Formerly, when recovery was probable, it was their dutyprima rily to look to the restoration of his Majesty to health, and to the exercise of the Sovereign Authority, but, at the same time, to guard against any inconvenience that might arise from the temporary suspension of the Kingly functions; now when recovery wa s stated to be highly improbable. it was for them to look pri marily to the improbability of his Majesty's resum ing the Sovereign power, not leaving out of sight this; it was possible he might yet recover. Formerly they were called upon to make an arrangement which it' . was probable circumstances would only render rims iary for a short period, now it was expedient to form one wNeh might be expected to be permanent. The state of his Majesty's health, at present, was repro seated to be such, that recovery was very improba ble, though not altogether hopeless. The Physician who was most sanguine, Dr. Simmons, had stated, that in younger cases about half the number a.; icted !usually recovered ; but in cases of persons who were more than seventy year; of age, the recoveries were but as one in five. He had, however, addedohat in .the case of the King, from the singular strength of his Majesty's constitution, he should rasher class, {rim with these who were but of sixty, than with those who were seventy years of age. It was there. I fore their duty, under all the melancholy circumstan ces of the case, to consider that as one in five of those who were so afflicted when more than seventy years , pf age, they were not to consider his Majesty's reco very as more hopeless than in that proportion, if the extraordinary strength of his constitutic a. furnished no additional ground for hope. He would now proceed to lay before them what he conceived to be the'prin cipal objects which they had to keep in view. In the first instance, the exercise of the Royal Au •thority being suspended in the person of the King, it had been necessary for them to consider in _What manner it should be supplied ; and in the next place, they 'were to take into their considera tion the nature of the provision which it would be necessary to. make for the maintenance and comfiirt of the King during his illness. With respect to the first, a provision had been already made for supply. .ing the executive power, ;which gave to the Prince .the full'pow‘r of Royalty at the expiration of 6 weeks from the commencement of the present Sessions ; so that, as the law now stood, bT about the 18th of ;February, all the autlacrity, as well as ail the duties of the Sayereign, would devolve On him; and, uu- Jess some provisions were made for his Majesty's •Jousehold, the Civil List also. • If nothing were done by Parliament, the Executive power would bet eomplet ; but :here would be no arrangement for the maintenance and comforts of the King. The House 'had had in their view, in the last Session cf Parlia ment, the necessity cf making such an arrangemertt, and therefore provided that the restrictions on the Re gentshould continue until six weeks after the Houses' had met, in order to give them an opportunity of considering of what they were now called upon to consider namely, of making a provision suitable to 'maintain the dignity, and supply the comforts which were necessary to his Majesty's present situation.— On this subject, two consideration:; naturally sug gested themselves ; the first was, from what fund, and from what source, were the provisons and men- dants to be drawn ? tl-e second was, as to the nature anA extent of theprovision to be made? With respect to the first, he thought he need have no hesitation in saying, that his Ma;esty's rresent Civil List, and his pesent officers and servants, t uotit to constitute the fund and the source from which the necessary provi sions and attendants should be taken. It was not in • the ordinary course of things, when making a provi sion for an individual, in his Majesty's present situa tion, to draw it from any other source than th:tt which might be considered as peculiarly hi 6 own. In . making the arrangement which he should have the honour to propose, it was their duty )to look not only to the probability or improbability of F. is Majesty's recovery, ispt •to have in their contemplation another event, 4ebieli was perhaps mere likely and more probable Xtt'an his ultimate recovery. That event was a par tial recovery, which, though not such as to fit him for resuming the reins of Goveiiiment; might yet afford him the means of tasting more comfort and enjoyment than he could participate in at pre-ent ; a state in which he might he so far restored to reason, as to be sensible of what he was and what he is. In' the event of his so far awaking to a sense of his situ tion, it was natural to suppose that his feelings would be less hurt to find not merely the!serne incividuals about him who had ' , formerly attended him, but the same officers he had been used to, than to find every thing changed, and hirnself attended by new officers, of whose names and of whosehrosineis he had pre., vionsly no knowledge. Thel-louse would feel, that, in agreeing to any arrange:nate that might be pro posed,it was their duty not iti'deny any thing that was necessary or desirable, but at the sante time to be anxious, to pay propel attention to econpmy, and to make the arrangement as little burdensome to the public as possible. It was not, however, possible, for any one who wok a view of the subject, to think :that the double establishment necessary to maintain a Regent and a Xing, could be conducted at as little 'expence as the establishment of the King alone.— ,Sorne additional provision, it would be seen, was ne cessary, and if a suitable and satisfactory arrange. ment could be made, which would not occasion any additional expence of more than i 670,000 Per annum,' he trusted the appropriation of such a sum to that purpose would not appear by any means an extraira-I -glint or imprudent arrangement.. This increased ea. penditure would be met by an addition to the Civil List of €70,000. If he was right in thinking that the present household of his Majesty was that to which they ought to look to supply his Majesty's fu ture servants, he would propose to take from it the highest officer, namely, the Lord Steward, *those office had several duties belonging to it 'connected with the person who' exercised the - Royal authority: : The same, or nearly the same observation would apply to the office of Lord Chamberlain. It was necessary to pass by these. He should therefore come to the' First Gentleman of the Bed Chamber, com monly called the Gloom of the Stole. This officer, he thought, might properly be placed at the head of the new establishinent. It was obvious the officer to selected would of necessity have new d. ties to perform, ae he would propose that the power of • ' . . superintending the whole establishment sliould e lee conferred upon him—,lt was not however possible to suppose that this Officer could always be In he spot; he thereforeethought it would be necessary ppoint a deputy far him. To All this o ffi ce he w Id pro. pose that auotheriedividual of known name and rank —the Vice-Chamberlai should be selected. Some of the Lords and Gr t of e ehe Bed-chamber, it iti would Be expected, sh d still be continued about his Majesty. Feur of each he thought would be suf ficient amply, to perform all the necessa . uties, yet not too many for that pur ose, He sh • therefore propose that these sh selected f his Ma jesty's present househo . A Master of the Robes, , he thought, and seven Equerries, he thought, should alsole continued, making the total number of per sons attendant on his Majesty, twenty-eight. The Groom of the Stole would require a Secretary, and it would also be.expedient that a private Secretary should be appointed for her Majesty. This portion of the Household, there could be no doubt, neelit to be entrusted to the management of the person charg ed with the care of his Majesty, namely, her Majesty the Queen. The principal Officers to be appointed by her. Majesty, the sabordinate ones by the Groom of the-Stole. To meet these arrangements he thought it better at once to take a sum Out of the Civil List, subject to the superintendance of the Treasury,• in order that if the sum taken should be more than ne cessary, the surplus might be returned : and that if there should be any excess of expence, Parliament should be applied to, to make good the deficiency.-- The sum which he conceived would be sufficient for this purpose, even were the King to remain at iWindsor, was £lOO,OOO. This he conceived would suffice, not only for the bill disbursements, but for the payment of the salaries of all the Officers he had named. He founded this statement on what had been the expences of the King's establishment at Windsor for the last year. He would now offer a few obser vations with respect to the nature of the provision to be made. Nothing could be more extravagant than to suppose that tae same number of equipages was necessary for his Majesty in his present state as in his former state. Taking this into consideration, he found that the ex:enditure of the last year had been ~from a hundred and four to a hundred and eight thousand pounds ; and he apprehended that the sum he had mentioned would be enough for the support of his Majesty, and fur providing every thing neces sary to his present situation. At the same time it would be obvious to the public that he did not call for more than sufficient—(liar, hear.) He next came tit consider the situation of her Majesty. k could not he expected that she could continue (as she had hitle.rto done in so exemp ary a manner) statio nary ; and it could not be doubted, that if for her health or amusement she should find it necessary to remove to any other part, a greater expence must be incurred, to meet which some provision ought to be made. With this fee ing, he thought it would not be ' unreasonable to grant her Majesty, for such purposes, out of the Civil List, the sum of £lO,OOO a year.— The last provision which it was necessary to consider related to those pensioners who were the objects of his Majesty's private bounty. These, he thought, might properly be continued on that fund which had hitherto borne them. It appeared to him that the House would think it necessary to make some provi-; sion for these, and in so doing to appoint an auditor of the accounts connected uith them, in order to pro- vide against any misappl;cation of the fund. He, should propose the appointment of a Secret Commit- tee e simil it to that of lest Session, to enquire into the , nature of these pensions. Ho would also propose that his Majesty's medical attendants should be paid' out ( f his Majesty's Privyeptiese ; this could nut ap pear unreasonable, as his Majesty would unquestion ably have defrayed those expences out of his Privy purse, had it remained at his disposal. He proposed to take £lO,OOO from his Majesty's Duchy of Lan, caster to meet in part the expellees necessarily incur red. These expences would altogether amount to .€lBO,OOO a year, viz.—Jeloo,o(X) for his Majesty's Household, 570,000 f r the Private Pensions, &c. and £lO,OOO for her Majesty. Ten thousand pounds of this sum would be derived (as lie had before stat ed) from the Duchy of Lancaster, and ‘70,000 from the proposed addition to the Civil List. Theme re mained the deficiency of £lOO,OOO to be provided for out of the Civil List, so that his Royal Highness the Prince Regent would have £lOO,OOO a year less than his Royal Father had enjeyed, For the ma nagement of his Majesty's private properly, he would recommend the appointment of a Commission (one of the Commissioners being a Master ill Chancery) to be named by her Majesty and the Prince Regent.— These commissioners should be empowered to ma nage and superintend the whole of these affairs, and to call before them any persons therein concerned.— They would act on oath, not to divulge the proceed ings which came before them, and being interested in the manner in which the surplus was to be applied, he thought they would be the most proper persons to audit the accounts. He now arrived at the conside• ration of the situation in which his Royal Highness the Prince Regent havirg the Civil List eettuned to him £lOO,OOO a year less than had been allowed to his Majesty. The most easy way to enable him to possess it to the same extent, would be to vote at once 4100,000 out of the Consolidated Fund, and extinguish his Exchequer Revenue.— It was natural, however, to suppose, that the Prince had understood the income arising to him out of the Exchequer should be continued to him till he came into the possession of the Monarchy itself. It there fore would not be fair to him, or to those who might have claims on this revenue, to disturb that supply ; and consequently the sum wanted should be taken from some other quarter. The Houte might think it better to leave that revenue, which they knew amounted lo F120,000,-osthiect at present to a deduc tion of £12,000 per annum h r the income tax (which would now cease); at the disposal of the Prince, and that it might be unjust tikeeke from him the means of satisfying the claims on him. He would however propose, that of his Exchequer income, £50,000 should he transferred tq the Civ:l List, iasteed of be ing paid to him, whiCh would have of that fund £70,000 untouched. It was to be presumed that the Household expences of the Regent, .from the circttme stance of his family teeing so much smaller than that of his Majesty, would not be so great, In taking therefore 5100,000 from the Civil List for the pur pose before stated, and adding to it from the Exche quer the sum of £5t),000, a diminution of £50,000 would remain, whidh it was thought might be dis pensed with on account of the Prince's smaller family, ' and consequently smaller expenditure. It would be an act of ,injustice, he must observe, if they were to transfer the Civil List to the Prince, as being solvent, to defray the expences of his Majesty, when it was notorious that this was not the fact. In order to fully explain this, he had moved for 'the estimated charges on the Civil List, as they were laid before the House in I bOl, together with the actual charges of each subsequent ys tea From these accounts it would be seen that in r immediately following, in 1805, the excess was *120,000, and in the sub w. quent years up to the present time, as tpllows . : • Ix 1806 • - • £160,000 1807 • • 1311.000 1808 - • • • 89,000 1309 - • • 103,000 1810 • • • 143,000 1811 - • • 110,000 The average, it would be seen, might be taken at 123 or £l2•},000 annually. The House were aware how this excess had been met, that it had been paid not out of the public revenue, but out of the funds arising from the excess of the Scotch Civil List, and the Admiralty Droits. The House would feel it im proper to apply to the public to pay this excess as long as there were other funds to meet it, but. it was necessary in the event of any increase of the excess, to give Parliament the earliest notice of it. It might have been expected, that when it was found the ar rangements made in 1804. were insufficient to meet the charges of the Civil List, that some notice would have been taken of it, but no formal notice had been taken of it from that time to the present. Ile would propose that as long as, by means of unappropriated fund's, the annual average excess of 23 or £21 4 000 could be met, it should be defrayed by no other ; but if it should increase so as to exceed its present average by £lO,OOO, that shiuld be deemed surly kilt to bring the subject before Parliament to meet their animadversions, if they should be deserved. He was I afraid that his statement would not be clearly under stood by many ; but with the indulgence of the House, he would offer a few words on one other point. He thought it would be nothing but what must be felt to be perfectly reasonable to make some provision for the expences which had already been , incurred by his Royal Highness the Prince Regent. When his Royal Highness ; first assumed the royal functions, with sanguine hopes that his Majesty wool soon be restored to his people, he had declined re ceiving any assistance whatever. It could not, how ever, be :opposed that he could assume the reigns ; government, in the name of his Majesty, witho t incurring a very considerable expellee. To this he should therefore propose a grant of the m of £lOO4OO. He hid now stated all that ne cessary to bring before the House. The £1 ,000 lie had just mentioned, would, he though}, be deemed a very small sum when the object to which it was to be applied was considered. The £70,000 to be added to the Civil List, was the only per manent charge to be made on the Consolidated Fund ; and, he trusted; the Committee would feel that the arrangements necessary to be made` for the splendour of the Regent and the comforts of the King could not be accomplished at a less expence. He therefore moved, that a provision shotild be made for the purpose of enabling the Queen to meet the increased expence, by granting, in aid of the Civil List, the sum of £70,000, to be paid out of the Con solidated Fund. Mr. PONSONBY entertained no disposition to i criticise the propo,i!ions which the Right Honourable Gentleman had submitted for the consideration of the Committee, he only rose for the purpose of stating, with the utmost deference, that those propositions ap peared to embi ace m•ne of than had ever I been brought w;thin the view of Parliament. The plan might, in his opinion, have been reduced to the utmost simplicity. The considerations which natn- ' rally arose out of the plan were, in the first place, what would be the amount of the expellee for carry. ing the plan into effect ? and, secondly, whether ground of necessity' ex:sts for inducing the Right Honourable Gentleman to call up.n Radiomen to burthen the countrimith thatripence? In entering into these cnnsidzrations, he must reverse the order presented by the Right . Hon. Gentleman, and take the latt.T part of the statement first. The Right Hon. Gentleman had said that the Civil List expenditure' was greater than the provision made, and that con sequently the Committee must expect to be called upon to provide for the deficiency—that might all be very true, but uninformed as he (Mr. Ponsonby) WAS on the subject, it could not be expected by the Right Hon. Gentleman that he would cume to the conchi sion desired. Before he would consent to enlarge the revenues of the Civil List, he must have some better proof of the necessity, than the mere allegation of the Right Hon. Gentleman. The public would expect to be satisfied also, that neither negligence nor extra vagance in the expenditure were to be found to cause the excess. • Would any Gentleman be justified in giving his vote without the othir proof ? The • most simple way of bringing before Parliament the regula tions to be made, would have been this—you voted certain sums necessary for the expences ache Crown, and also for defraying the expences of the Govern ment. The revenues appropriated to the support and splendour of the Throne, are about to be trans ferred to the person on whom the functions of Roy alty descended, in consequence of the unfortunate situation of the Reigning Monarch—to that person might be given all that Parliament, by its vote, had thought necessary for the support of the Crown, and to his discretion might be left the provision for main taining the splendour of his Majesty. The Right Hon. Gentleman had said that the Report of the Physicians must impress on the minds of every one, that it was necessary for, the maintenance of his Ma jesty's state and civil comfort, that all the splendour now proposed should be agreed to. There was nu man more ready than he (Mr. Ponsonby) to contribute to the comfort and happiness of his Majesty, if be thought splendour in his gulortunate situation could produce the desired effect—but on looking over the evidence of the Physicians; he did not see one word which could justify the opinion that statement con veyed. The Right Hon. Gentleman talked of the s , middle state in which his Majesty might possibly be placed," but the report did not even promise that such would be the case. Did the Right Hon. Gen tleman, When he attended the Committee, ever ask the Physicians any question which could leas him to expect that his Majesty would attain that state ? The • . questions lime all as to the sanity anti Intuit/ a4l Monarch's mind, and the Physicians ail clineurr e d i opinion that no such middle state was expected. Gee had said 5. it was a case withotit hope," 'ano;h erthu ot It was all but impossible he should recover." Th e Right Hon. Gentleman would find li tt l e tong, or consolation in the evidence of Dr. Sinun ons 1 ,, t , held similar opiiii o as, when he added, 4, th at he never knew an instance. ef a blind person morel. ing from insanity—that in the whole of his p ractice in the Hospital he had_ known seven or eight p n . sons in that situation, and those he called unfo rte , nate cases of the kind. What was there th en e l the particular case of his Majesty, which trade; larger establishment necessary ? Could his Nlaj e ,, t „ see any of the officers proposed to be 0 4 E4 about his person t Was it in proof, in any eel instance, within the last few months, that an one of the high officers of the household had 4. proached his person ? The !tight Hon. Gentie re4 might say, that his Maesty might at some funne l* . riod return to mental health. The same ;no t have been said last year, when the restrictions o n t hi Regent were proposed. But if his Majesty sh ou l d happily be relieved from his present calamitous c i te ; ation, would not Parliament make provision for le e resuming the regal functions, and necessarily pmt for all the splendour attached to royalty? Th at was another part of the plan which he did not this necessary : it was proposed to allow her Maj or £lO,OOO per annum, because his Majesty kept fee * carriages and horses than when exercising the rivA functions. Was that a reason for proposing this a k lowance ? When the King was in health, he uteri those carriages and horses, and, therefore, they coe4 not be necessary for the comfort of the Queen. With respect to the propesition for taking £ejo3,ooo from the Civil List, on the ground "that the family of t h, Prince Regent was not so large as the family of bi t Majesty, he (Mr. Ponsonby) WAS not much act!elia. ted with the Civil List expenditrut. and could offer an opinion, further than this, that he belie that the greatest part of the expences arising ou that revenue did not originate in the manner stated, but would be the same whether the Sovereign's fa. wily was great or small. All that he intended by these observations was, to make it clear to the pubre that the Parliament were justified in voting the ad, ditional grants. There was another part of the phe of whiZh he professed his ignorance, namely, the s. cessity cf voting £lOO,OOO to the Regent for defrays ing the expences of accepting the Government. 4 was well known, that on the occasion of the itrgesey his Royal Highness refused to accept the Gavo t ment upon those terms ; therefore the Kiel( HA. Gentleman could not now expect from Pariornee any tote which was not strictly correct and fur._ Not having the whole of the Resolutions b.fote hits, he was not prepared to comprehend the plan, time, he did not mean to object to it in all its parts; 4 the same time, he wished that the reigning monad' should have all the splendour which properly belook ed to his station. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUE4 did not think the. Resolutions, when on the Tsb would give the Right Honourable Gentleman dal particular insight into the plan, which he was so die sirous of obtaining. The natural course of procmf ing would be to wait until the Bill was before df House, when the information would be afforded. to the complication cf the plan, the Committee would do him the justice to recollect. that he had as expressed himself in detailing it ; and had referred Gentlemen to the Bill, as better calculated to give that necessary explanation. The Resolutions were merely the first step; the Bill would be ready (if the Committee agreed to the Resolutions) on Monday; and the different stages might be discussed, as it was not intended to be hurried through the Hour.— When the Right Honourable Gentleman talked of not comprehending the propositions, he wts at a kn. to conceive what was wanting to induce that coo prehension, for the Right Hon. Gentleman agreed that his Majesty's comforts ware necessary. Wash! not still our King. and was it fight that he shosli be script of every appearance of dignity?—(Heir, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentlemen appeared to quarrel with the proposed app inuneirs about alai Royal Person, and talked of their being too massy Lords of the Bedchamber, Equerries, &c. because the Physicians considered the case of his Majesty as hopeless. He did not believe, though the Rill Honourable Gentleman had made these objectiaes, that he seriously entertained an opinion or wish a his mind that the only establishment necessary vas a comfortable maintenance in a sick chamber ; sane he was that the feeling of the House, of the public, and of the Right Honourable Gentleman, would sanction such a vote—(licar, hear,) To +spout with all the dignity attendant on the Sovereign ass repugnant to the feelings of the nation at ur g e. The Right Honourable Gentleman had insinuated that he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had not disemarged his duty in the Comrui:tee, in not qua. tioning the Physicians as to the probability of his Majesty being restored to mental health ; but be would ask in return, was there any thingln the stast of his Majesty's health which required the F aitics• La enquiry on that point ? and was it not necessa/ for Parliament to make provision for the resume. tints of the Royal Authority in the person of * Sovereign, if happily the period should arrive w enable his Majesty once more to be able to esti' cise the functions of Royalty Was not the Hew aware, that up to the sth day of July (the pawl' when the accession of disorier arose), his MAjart o was in the habit of comma nicetion with 124 taat4 On more than one oecasion be (Mr. Perceval) bag the happiness of an interview with his Majesty, Ida was competent to all the pa. poses of common intet course, and feelingly alive to the situation in *l4 be was unfortunately plated; and though the Wei' sion prevented him from resuming the ltopsi Fetes' [ions, yet he was capable of enjoying common tsar course, so far as the calamity under which Die fir bowed would permit. Would the Commute!, causetis Majesty's calamity was great, abstain rendering to turn that corutort which, when ren would make it sit lighter ? He thought not. thesesore trusted that they would agree to u 4 lotions. Mr. PONSONBY had not the most distant . of depriving his Majesty deny thing necess..ry to his comfort or ctinity ; but lie wished to whether the Civil Lit° aevenue would n..t .15 the hands 01 the Prince of Wales t Would / tr .1 - A _ •••• i~ti`