Star. — London, England, 1812-06-26 00:00:00

PARLIAMEATtiRr • PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF LORDS, JUNE 2.5. . - The Irish Glass Drawbacks Bill, the Militia Adjutants' Bill, the Illilitia Subalterns Bill, and the Bermuda Trade Bill, were and a second time. The Irish Bog Draining Bill was read the 3d time and passed. EPISCOPAL PRECEDENCY. The Covnmittee of Privileges met at half-past three o'clock. Lord REDESDALE desired the attention of th it Lordships to the Petition of the Bishops of Meath and Kildare. The claim mentioned in this Petition was for a right of precedency, founded upon a clause coatained in an Act of Parliament respect ing rank and precedency. It was there enacted, that the Spiritual Peers of Ireland should take rank and precedency next after the Spiritual Peers of England, severally, according to their rank and degree. The Rev, and Learned Prelates conceived, that, under this Act of Parlia?nent, tlicy had a right to prece dency after the Bishops of London, Durham, and Winchester. As to his own opinion, he was inclined to think there would be considerable difficulty in re conciling this construction to the obvious meaning of the words of the statute. With respect to Bishops, he believed, as one order, there was no distinction, though certainly the Bishops of London, Durham, and Winchester, had precedency to other English Bishops who ranked only according to the time of their consecration ; and the Bishops of Meat! , and Kildare were entitled to the same rank in Ireland but this was a distinction amongst themselves, and did not appear to be contemplated in the statute to which he had referred. However, whatever m;ght be his individual opinion, he thought it right to bring the Petition under their Lordships' consideration ; and for that purpose should move, " That the Bi• shops of Meath and Kildare were entitled to their claim of precedency." The Bishop of KILDARE stated generally the rank which had been always acknowledged among the Spiritual Peers of England and Ireland previous to the Union. There was a distinction in both coun- tries as to the Archbishops, the Primate of all Ireland and the Primate of Ireland, and ag ain , there were the Primate of all England and the Primate of Eng land ; and hence it arose that the Archbishop of. Canterbury took precedence of the Archbishop of York, and the Archbishop of Armagh preceded the Archbishop of Dublin. Among the Bishops, who were certainly one order, as indeed were the Archbi ahapc there was no precedency in general but as to the time of consecration, excepting the Bishops of London, Durham, and Winchester, in England, and the Bishops of Meath and Kildare, in Ireland, who preceded all the others in each kinj l l!om respectively, without regard to any other circumstances. By the Act it was generally provided that the Bishops of Ireland of equal degree with those of England should take precedence after those of England. But if the words of that provision were strictly construed; they would, he believed, admit that it was intended that the Bishops of Meath and Kildare should take pre cedency after those of London, Durham, and Win chester, but b.-fore the rest of the English Bishops. The Bishop of MEATH was desirous of dis, charging his duty for the benefit of the office he held, but beyond that lie was not anxious about the decision. +le generally agre.:d with the observations made by the Reverend Prelate who had just sat down, and he left the determination to their Lord- ships' judgment. The Duke of NORFOLK was satisfied in his mind that the Act alluded to warranted the con struction, that these Reverend Prelates were entitled to their claim of precedency. If possible, indeed, a favourable interpretation ought to be given to the clause in question, for, since the Union, the Peers of Ireland ought to be paid every distinction which was their due, and with open arms we ought to allow them every fair claim to precedency. Lord ELLENBO ROUGH begged not to be un derstood as stating any sentiment personally against the claims of these two Reverend Prelates. But he must contend for a certain principle which ought to guide all their Lordships' decisions upon questions of this nature. They ought to put aside every con sideration of favour and respect, and make their determination according to the true sense and import of' the clause which had been referred to on this oc- casion. According to the obvious meaning of the voids, he was induced to think that the precedency now claimed was not entertained at the time of fram ing the Act • The LORD CHANCELLOR concurred in the. senirments delivered by the Noble and Learned Lord, and although lie was far from saving that this pro vision of precedency would have been the one he would have framed, > et looking to the words " rank and degree," he was inclined to believe that the pre cedency among Bishops themselves was not contem plated In the enactment. Lord WALSLNGHAM proposed the motion, which was negatived without a division. • BANBURY PEERAGE. Lord ERSKINE proposed to defer his motion re specting the Banbury Peerage, till Thursday next. Lord ELLE.NBOROUGH stated the inconve nience of his being present that day on account of the Sittings after Term. Lord E RSKINE idtivnated hispast anxiety to have some decision upon this subject, and if the Noble and Learned Lord thought proper he would even then proceed. He accordingly proceeded to state the evidence as it ratted to the legitimacy of the claim ant, and concluded by moving several resolutions of the facts which appeared upon their Lordships' Journals, stating that the claimant was descended from William, the first Earl of Banbury, whose son sat in • that House as Earl of Banbury, both before and after any question had been raised against his le hitimacy— tl.at the Committee of Privil eg es, i n 1661, ad assented to his claim ; and that a Bill was in troduced, but not prosecuted, to declare him illegi timate, &c. Lord ELLENBOROUGH said, the facts recited 'acre brought f,rward like Foinuient objects upon canvas ; but there were other facts most maierial for their judgment, if they were to decide at all. Upon a view of all the evidence,. his deci4td opinion was, that the present claimant was the spurious offspring of Lord Vane and Lady Banbury. The LORD CHANCELLOR observed, there d .43 change in his opinion upon this subject. wished to put this question for their determination, he should, unless some arguments should be used to the contrary, express his vote agreeably to the decla ration he had made. He was one who always re viewed his own sentences as Judge, and always felt anxious after he had made them ; but in reviewing the opinion hr had tormed on this claim, he was sa tilted the claimant had no right to the title, Lord ERSKINE then proposed, that he would bring this subject bc-fore their Lordships next Thurs day, for their final decision ; which proposition was agreed to, and the Ca minittee adjourned. DISSENTERS. Earl STANHOPE rose, f it the purpose of firing the day for the second reading of a 1311, which re ,pected the miist abominable persectu ion against men fir their religious opinions. The Noble Earl then moved, that the Lot ds be summoned for Friday, the 3d of July, when he would move the second reading of the Dissenters' Bill. - SHORT-HAND WRITERv. Earl STANHOPE wished to call the notice of the House to what he conceived a right of petition. It was certainly provided that when petitionets appear-. 1 ed before their Lordships and witnesses before their Committees, no charge by the clerks, or others, was authorised to be imposed upon those persons, but he held in his hand a paper containing a charge }or short-hand writing before a Committee of that House, and he moved that this was a breach of their privileges, and that the pets , n offending should be brought before their Lordships to answer for his conduct. Lord WALSINGHAM said, it was usual for .the parties to engage a sh,rt-hand writer, xthich ex pedited the business before the Committee, but it was optional, there was nothing compulsory: How ever, if the party referred to did not consent, the short-hand writer must be compensated from another quarter. Lord KENYON observed, that the Noble Earl himself had been attending the Committee alluded to (In the Nevin Enclosute Bdl), and yet he liCVel noticed the impropriety of the short-hand writer's presence. - Lord REDESDALE contended that the short hand writer was entitled to compensation, and all that he could suggest was, that it the parties refused, there was no means of using compulsion. They were not bound to pay the expense. But it appear ed strange to him how the Noble Earl could form in his imagination that this was a breach of privilege. —The parties for whom the Noble Earl seemed in terested, had, in respect to the Bill, shewn an ex: traordinary conduct, as they endeAvoured to support robbery, because it had been practised for a series of years. Earl STANHOPE replied, he was anxious fat justice, but ate did not know what the proceeding, on the Bill had to ch) with the. present ertestion.— He was, however, satisfied to hear the Noble and Learned Lord say they were not bound to pay this bill. But if the short-hand writer dared to use, here after, any means of compulsion, he would bring him before that House to answer the charge he should make against him. Adjourned till to-morrow (this day). HOUSE OF COMMONS. The Newfoundland Spirits &II went through a Commiuce. The report was ordered to be receive:l to-morrow. The Loan Bill was read a thitd time and pa , sed. The Report of Committee o. Ways and Means was brought up, and the resolutons were agreed to. On the motion of Mr. Rosa, it was resolved, that the House should tuAnorrow resolve into a Commitee on the Free Port Act. Leave was given, on the motion 'of Mr. Rose, to bring in a Bill to obtaiii returns relative to the expense and maintenance of the peer in England. The report of West Tndia Licenses Bill was brought up, and the Bill was ordered to be read a third iime to-morrow, The Reports of the Copper Duty Bill, and the Southern Whale Fishery Dill, were likewise brought up, agreed to, and the Bill ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. The Bahama Wands Trade Bill was read a thild time and passed. On the motion of the CUANCLI LOR of the EXCHEQUER, tho additional Postage Bill went through a Committee.—Report to. morrow. The Report of the Sugar Distillery Bill was brought up, the resolutions were agreed to, and the Bill ordered to be read a thud time to morrow. The Linen Bounty Bill went through a Committee. Report to-morrow. Sir WM. SCOTT gave notice of his Intention to-morrow, to move for leave to bring in a Bill for the better regulation of Prize Courts. lie intimated, however, that he should not press this Bill through the present Session. The Excise Duty Bill went through a Committee. Report to-morrow. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER gave notice, that in the Committee of Ways and Means to-morrow, he should move an additional duty on Stone-ware Bottles, which were many tac• tured to a considerable extent, to the injury of the Glass trade. A person from the Transport •fftce presented an account of the *umber of French officers who have broken their parole, been retaken, and effected their escape, during the last throe years. The House went into Cola nittee on the Excise B.lL—Report to morrow. Mr. VA:(SITTAaT Said. he should propose a duty OD Stone ware, in the Consin , rtee of Ways and Means.____ On the question that the Ass. sseri Taxes Bill be committed, Mr. Wk.sTERN objected to the , tax on horses employed in ' husbandry, and to the principle of such taxation. It was as departure from the true object of taxation,—a fine on luxury ; and went to tax the implements of trade. They might as well' tax the pbu g h. bjr IA A AK WOOD supported the Bill. It was then committed, and the Report ordered to be re ceived t Et-morrow. The Irish Stamps Bill went through a Committee, and the Report was ordered to be received to-morrow. The Unlawful Oaths Bill, and the Riots Bill, were read a third time, and pasted. The House went into Committee on the Irish Population Bilt i Mr. W. Voce said, he approved of the principle of the BM, though he differed from the Right Honourable l'aronet (Sir John Newpsrtj in the method of carrying it into practice. He thought tffe mode proposed too expensive , and wouli recom me , that instead of erecting new officers, the census should be ma by constables, by baronies in the counties, and by parishes in the towns. Sir J. NIWPC,IIT objected to the returns being made by persons enitiloyed in collecting the taxes : the common people would take alarm, imagining some new taxee to be imposed, and would be anxious to conceal their numbers. After 'a few words froth General M.sTncw, Mr. Rost, and Mr. POLL, in support of Mr. Pole's Amendment, it was agreed to. The Report was ordered to bet eceivad to-murrow, and the Bill as amended to be printed. sir NI ARK Woon moved for an Account of the French Pri soners of War, distinguishing sailors as far ai possible. Ordered. LOCAL TOKENS. The CHANCELLOR of the Exc arouse moved the Order of the Day for the second reading of Chit making this mo • lion, he beggedleave to state that he should move an amend ment in the Comntittee the object of which would be to make ttAstatal ro issue new Tdriele. and to suffer those Tokens which ibould ego propose to omit that part of the Act which referred to copper Tokens. •1 he Bill having been then read,lt was ordered to be corn• mjttcd to-rnorrow. IMPRESSMENT 07 AMERICAN SEAMEN. Mr. ROBIN tots could not refrain, (though in the absence of an Hon. Baronet, Sir F. Burdett,) from saying a few words on the subject to which be had lately called the attention of the House. It appeared that a seaman (named John Williamson,) had been impressed, and ;sent on board the Enterprize—that application had bet n made for his release, and that, consequently, the no. cessary inquiries' had been made, before the Honourable Baronet mentioned the circumstance to the House. The man, Indeed, bad said he was an Ametican who had been discharged from the Namur': but be was recognised by one of tile gang, as a deserter Isom that ship. The Hon. Member stated, that in all canes the utmost attention was paid to the representations of the American Consul on this subject of impressment, by our Board of Ad miralty. Mr. CROR►R said, he was in the lobby when the Hon. Bart. made his statement the other night, or he would have given au immediate answer. LINCOLN JAIL.-PETITION OF MR. HOLDEN. Sir SAMUEL ROMILLY called the attention of the House to the complaints contained in this per son's petition. He had been long confined for debt, but riot conceiving that he received that treatment to which he had a right, he complairml t, the gaoler, who gave him no other satisfaction than calling him rascal and scoundrel, and took him before the Magi strates of the County, who ordered him to be con fined in the condemned cells, where he remained for a period of eleven days, without being permitted to see or converse with any other person than the under gaolers, or allowed the use cif pen, ink, and paper. He (Sir Samuel Romilly) observed, that although he thought this a very grave case fin- the consideration of Parliament, yet as they were in possession of only ex-parte evidence, he should at present content hiM. selt with moving for a Committee to hear evidence on e both sides, and to report the same to the House. fie ought also to observe, that he had'another reason for limiting himself that far, because Mr. Holden was. now at liberty. He declared that it was far from his mind to remove that legal and necessary subordina lion which must exist in every place of confinement; but, without meaning any thing disrespectful of 4he Magistrates, he wished to trace abuses, if possible, 1 .0 a corrupt source, and remove them. Perhaps there was mi class of people whose situation required ihe attention of that House more than people ton fined lor debt, and Parliament acknowledged it as often as they passed a Bill for their liberation...— (Ilear, /ear).—Bur at present they were to consider :lie situation of a debtor put in s-litary confinement eleven days and nights by the authority of a Ma gistrate. Now he would take the liberty of asking by what authority such Magistrate acted I He did not know by what statute law, and he knew he had Stu r ight to do so by the common law. If the pri soner be a felon indeed, such authority was vested in non to prevent ay escape. But he heard that many Nought such authority to exist over a debtor, and hat even some lawyers were ot opinion, the Act of the 81st of his present Majesty conferred that autho. int). He, however, caretully perused that act witn out being able to find any oiie clause to countenance the opinion. He understood, that when Mr. Hol den was first confined a bed was sent him by the gaoler, with which he was dissatisfied, and J.. ap i,lied for permission to have his own bed taken in to him, to which indulgence he was ciunled by the Act of the 32d of George the Second, which provided, " that prisoners brought into any gaol for debt, shall have the privilege of bringing in weer own beds, and shall not be compelkd to take or hire any from he gaoler." That was consented to ; but the goo ier, however, 'told him, that he must go to the Pau pers' Watd, where there were seven beds and thir t.'en prisoners. This was in the month ot June, when the weather was very warm, and a double -An ated door prevented a free circulation of air.— (Near, hear.). : -. Oars, then, was Mr. Holden, and die other priso. aers in that Ward, punished for his offence. These facts he had learned, upon the authority of an affida vit sworn before a Magistrate. It would be recol lected that, some time back, a petition was presented to the House from Mr. Finnerty, and as soon as the news reached of the discussion whick took place upon it, he was removed from the place of his confinement, which strongly shewed the great public advantaw which resulted from the discussions of that House, and he doubted not but many would be relieved •of the rigour of confinement by his present motion. An advantage WAS attained by the Public upon another . motion made by him, when he was in a minority of six, in consequence of its being denied that the abuse of which he complained did exist, yet he had since seen an order from a very high authority, comman ding the suppreision in future. He was much aft aid-, that great abuses did at present exist in Lincoln Gaol, and that Magistrates connived at them—( Cries of No, as.) Mr. Tinnerty's petition represented, that one Magistrate told him, he could be accommodated with .a better room for three guineas, and on Mr. Fitinerty's representing that really he had no such money, another Magistrate, who was present, told him, " I understand there is a subscription for you." 4 Since the facts were disclosed, a meeting of the Ma-- gistrates was held, at which they came to Resolta.. tions for the future management of the prison ; and it containing nine rooms, seven were placed at the d:sposal of the gaoler, to let to prisoners confined for debt, and two were allotted for those who could not afford to pay for a bed. In another place, caned the Low Cells, under the Chapel, •refractory and disor derly debtors were to be pnt. He understood the gao ler had a salary of 4300 a-year allowed him, yet a case occurred of a pris-ner dying in the night from want ot medical assistance, because the gaoler must not be disturbed.—( Criu of No, no.) All these facts were detailed in the public papers, yet no answer was given them, at least through the same channel. ( Hear, hear.) He was glad to be cheered by an Honourable Gentleman who expressed a wish, in his absence, to proceed as early as possible to inquire into the state of the gaol tow in a state of instil tee tion. He should like to know what was meant by a prison being in a state of insurrection, unless it was spoken as a metaphor. He heard that means were taking to convince the Sheriff that he ought not, nor had he a right to interfere in behalf of the prisoners ; but he (Sir S.) was certain that the Sheriff had not only the right, but it was his duty to interfere, and do the prisoners in his custotly justice. The office of Sheriff wa► a very impoitant one, and not confined merely to the shew of trumpeting before this Judas. That distinguished Philanthropist, Mr. Howard, for. randy undertook the office of Sheriff , but k ever felt affected prisoners, and his conduct gave such Ne d tion, that no one could be f oun d to prosecute although a dissenter, and therefore unqualieer t i e ti that high of The Learned Gentleman concluded b L y i:e,c4 m T o ph v act i .i n a g htsel , e I::: %I C I ahe d t : pc tbarte of a of appoi nted :/ih gi t: dnu i r t et y,:tl tray •im t • been, and what now is, the treatment or weson i ert ire c w. ; s si need rlie M raet, r• tar s ums l t i ,i i t l ae P n4 L dt l ht N haat , t o th ne e o c f ai th ce e c le s m j, be er rs iff f ‘ e ,a L s 71;4 . with g sage the t t I t t th e i e prisoners Learned t u da dGceeersu his Gentleman justice lqvtaiasi anft re d ad o i d n w o ti u character, which Hd, n‘rdalSvnisecclaatecmlforaosonnlloyfablivyicmtrlytpegroMopoael motivescistrates, try lie g d eanc,,: wasgaoler couldalso l c s o con f ined he understood that no bl ame could attach to mi d his conduct. duct. CASTLEREAGH said, he was not at surprised to hear the Honnurable and Learned Cep tleman desirous of putting the House in possessic e e evidence upon such transactioas as he had related, and he felt happy the Motion was made so early,e, cause, should the House find the truth to have be e told, it would be the duty of Parliameta to ado g same legislative remedy fir the future. But ou t t,, other hand, it was not to be forgot, that if the Itue were to order an Inquiry on the application ce ewe r prisoner who might alledgc grievances, the Hou s e would get into a state of embarrassment, from1;0.'1: it could not easily extricate itself. The !melee:4.c titioning that House, likewise, was more expens;re than by proceeding in the usual way. which M r . Hu. den acknowledged he did not avail himself of.. He should not, however, oppose the Motion Om an le quiry, but reserve his farther cpinion until the Hoe should be in possession of the evidence on both W et , Mr. ELLISON said, he had been acting ui public capacity in Lincoln for upwards of 25 yeah He agreed with the Learned Gentleman, that neit the Magistrates nor the gaoler ought to ill treat ety of their prisoners ; but he would ask the Hag whether the present was tie hest mode of d scosi d the subject, or to allay the evil spirit wiac' , wee; walking abroad ?—(af/inegh.)—He was afraid teats was neither, and he Inuch doubted whether ii wosll be productive of any good. With respect to thecae. plaints .4 the manner in which the prisoner Ben same by his death, was, to his knowledge, unfree. ed, because it was given in evidence before the Cep nor, that he was much troubled with a very doge rous, irritable complaint, and, from his having bee a very hard liver, a mortification ensued. The Se. geon, indeed, who had seen him the preceding n* expressed himself satisfied that he could not livetil the nett day.— (Hear, hear.)--While the Surges was giving this in evidence before the Coroner, Kr. Finnerty went tip to him, called him a dirty feller. and threatened to strike him. Whenever the' should take 'place, he was curt it would be falai that there was not a word of truth in the suttee& relative to the man deceased, nor in the pretest P tition of Holden. The met was, Heiden agile sbd from a fell, .w•-prisoner, and he suspected that &milli fellow-prisoner had itlormed against hen; be this proceeded to use very threatening language him, which induced the other to thi k his Wiwi* ger. Under these t.ircurnstances , i,ewas coakl closely t:11 he made a sa apology. '!ti were the real facts (Item case, aed b wooldre trouble the House with any other obserratiie, ties that it was his sincere belief that he postetiede much humanity as any man who could be ?latch! his situation ; and he ((told say fo• himself, that li feelings of humanity were in no respect less than those of the Hon. and LearnedGeetienwasia made the motion. The gaoler had :ndeed takes& opinion of Counsel, and he hoped that opinion trash not turn out to be a *Tong one. Mr. BROUGHAM had no with to prolong tie discussion. He agreed with his Honourable Fried who made the Motion, that the House could no a better employed than in protecting most help mid distressed class of men, the numerous debees confined in the different gaols. The present mewl might lead to a great practical improvement. data an improvement should appear to be wanted. Whit he had said with respect to the Piofessional Gunk. men had been misrepresented, as also with tespect to the gaoler. All that he had stated was, that an i" l ' proper delay had taken place in procuring media assistance, and that, had such assistance been pint cured, a more favourable result might have been the consequence. To prove the contrary was incumbei upon the a s:trey who denied the justness Of his state ment. Mr. Evans had said before the Cur , that had he been called earlitr, the consequence night have been different. He had in prISSeWt)II 1 state went, signed by twelve persons, one of whom to bn sure was Mr. Finnerty, testifying the fact. But' the statements that the Honourable Baronet and himself had formerly made respecting the Pr' _ upon the authority of Mr. Fineerty, bad turned!!! to be welt founded. The privy of the prince 1, been 14tely cleansed, and instead of being Mr* dicular, had been found to be shelving under r * of the prison where the ptisoners were cone • s not OA Anether name was Mr. Dralcard, who wa apt to complain, as he had on a former °coastal se* fused to come f orward, conceiving himself to be . wt. treated. But he (Mr. Brougham) had no tWta to say, that f the statement made were corm' ,f Coroner had d.scharged his duty in a very rei) r 7.:;„ sible marntr, as he had workmen emptoyed a , the gaol ups.; the inquest. Judge Blac ksto n e justly obsetve that this (Ace was too much . IT . 4111 hands of low men, and consequently was liab le S• id abused. '1 he verdict pronounced *as D, visitation of God." Three, however, who sem tir— the Inquest, wished to have returned a elite ent diet—but the Coroner had told them, they me . bring it in wilful murder, or died by the w cin u a re a c i; of GA: This, he had no doubt, was on the part of the Coroner. The three pets" were° whom he had alluded wished to have found e of the W.- that the man had died by the Ileg lo g enCe ist ler and his Servant, and this ut on the grw""— tune. jolted had wanted medical aid in proper tu ne. joked that the present inquiry wuuld be ro and hoped that t le managernent of the tea.' l , be found to be proper, and that be !time% considering the evidence, that was handy had been Imataken in his statement. Colonel ELLISON understood die Od d. hwisis