Star. — London, England, 1826-03-07 00:00:00

7.( ~~, ;~•>-~. 4 .> ! t 'cc. ,i_-•,- . , tki4k \IA -\I • -11, •\ . """" 611 ".PIPT. AMMO Mime its sebool-mas -me considered it thoughtless &mord PA LM ERST(RsI said that: the subject already is.eri an often argued, that he felt it must be irksome to the House to discuss it at any length. if it was necessary to have an Army at all, it was neees „.,sary to have .the Officers well instructed. At the ex twice of 15,13.51. they provided the opportunity for j young melt destined to the Army to acquire the best possible in *ruction of every kind calculated to render them valuable in their , profession. Those 'silo had already proceeded front that semi.. • nary had generally distinguished themselves.: There were, at• present, three hundred youths deriving the advantages of that await to ion. Mr. HU MR did not mesa .to dispute that the cadets were well instructed, but he thought that those who were desirous of an office ought to qualify themselves for it. He enquired how many days the Oov'ettsor,hatbeen present at the establishment last year ? Sir A. HOPS said, that lie was the Governor of the College. He obtained leave of absence for four months, during the last year, upon urgent private business; but his attention was not withdrawn from the establishment. The situation was an arduous one; and, so far from heing an object of desire, that he had resigned it for the iituation he formerly held, the salary of which was only 4001. He now only continued in the situation until Sir E. Paget, who was in future to fill it, should arrive in this country. The salary was not too much, consideri , g the liberal conduct which the Governor wasl • compelled to displiy towards foreigners visiting the - 'College, and to the society in the neighbourhood. He Itad held tl e situati n for ten tears, but had nal grown Sixpence richer in consequence. He (Sir A. Hope) -begged that Honourable Gentlemen would consider what this establishment was: it afforded a,general edu cation upon almost all subjects—classics, languages, mathematics, drawing, fortification—in short, every= Manly accomplishment. If German was thought un ,,,necessery, the establishment • might be diminished to ...that extent ; .if classics were deemed superfluous, it admitted of further reduction. But the establishnseet had been maturely considered by Government, and was thought to be not too extensive. Independent of matters relating to the military profession, our Officers should be possessed of every aceomplishment—historical knowledge and classical knowledge. Rewards should excite emulation. On this principle depelided the whole expense of the establishment. The Officers who studied at the College were not sent out until they were found, open examination, to be critically perfect in their duty. • Colonel W 001) made a few observations in support of the resolution. The example of the Americans had been referred I to ; but they had a Military College as well as this country. Colonel DAVIES remarked, that the expense of the .Ameritan army was only 500,0001. whilst that of ours was • 6,000,0001. The Honourable Member complained of the large and 6=re staff maintained to superintend the education of 216 rift Sir A. HOPE observed, that if the Gallant Member knew the duties of these Odicers, be would know that they did not eat the bread of idleness. Sir H. HA RDINGE said, that if the Hon. Member (colonel Davies) had looked into the papers which had been laid before Congress, in regard to the American army, he would find that they had £6B cadets, who cost more than he was aware of. There was an estimate before Con gress for horses, which we never thought of. There were always more cadets at West Point than at our College. M. HUME contended that it was the duty of his Majesty's Ministers to see that persons nonainated to fill offices were properly qualified. Now if the Hon. Member who was governor of the college (Sir A. Rope) was right in his sogurnent, the ptinciple should be ap plied to all persons under Gravernment. We should have our ambassadors sent to school, and dancing, masters as well as other teachers provided, for tlarrasi-i . We had to pay S 00,0001: to support our istsbassadots,' . and lamentably did they . figute when they had ana l thing to do. f A laugh, and hear from Mr.C.W. Wfnn.) , The Right Hon. Gent. might know more of the Matter than he (Mr. Hume), who knew nothing of them but what came before the public. He would ask she Chansl tellor (.1 the Exchequer whether 24;0001. (the amount; of the pay and subscriptions of the cadets and others)l was not enough for the College? The Government had no right to teach. at the public expense what these persi ns could learn at o:her seminaries. If they were to be taught every thing at the College, why not teach them the r letters? Here %sere three French maiters,. . two German masters, three masters of history and classics, and a drawing master. He contended that these nir.e masters should- be dispensed with, or that the pupils should pay them themselves. Here were 6,0001. for teachers, and 6,1601. for the military staff, making upwards of 12,0001. fur the education of 260 young men. The Him. and Gallant Officer (Sir H, Hardinge) said, that there were no horses here as in America; but was, there n^t a riding establishment sufficient to teach the whole army ? lie (Mr. Heine) contended that the country could not afford to pay 1,5001 to a rivemoF as well as 1,0951. to a lieutenant-governor; and that the military pay of the students was sufficient to defray the whole earn pense of the establishment. The Hon. Member then proposed, as an amendment, to reduce the vote 3,0001. making the sum voted fur the whole expense of the college 10,1351. Sir H. VIVIAN declared .that it was necessary the field and staff Officer of the Infantry should be perfect ed in the equestrian a• t. He took that opportunity of stating, that he had inqeired into the affair spoken of the other night by the Honourable Member (Sir F.- Burden) for Westminster, that happened at Exeter; and was happy to sly, that the Commanding Officer's report, which he held in his hand, clearly proved that the Newspaper statement was a .grans exaggeration, and that the offender had been guilty of the grossest breach of military subordination, and that his punishment, such us it WAS, was inflicted from the wish of avoidiug bodily chastisement. Indeed; his Royal Highness the Come :minder in Chief censured the Commanding Officer for not having the offender tried by a Court-martial, and punished as he richly deserved. He had also a letter from the Mayor and Magistrates of Exeter, speak ing in the highest terms of the Regiment of the 10th, so much the object of calumnious • vituperation. The lion. and gallant Member bore testimony to the 'mai • tary character of the 10th Hussars, which he had corn mauled for many years. He declared there was no Regiment in oho service maintained a higher character fur discipline--as their Saving a young Nobleman for their present Adjutant evinced. Mr. MONCK wished °Seers to be educated at their own expense.—General Gescorse supported the ori g inal Resolution. Ale. NUMB had no objection to the sons of Officers being cheaply educated at the Military College. Sir J. YORKE denounced the system of instruction ar the several Colleges and Universities of the country, e here, he said, nothing was taught but prr , fligacy and (Laughter) The young Men left those places without a single idea in their heads, with thick sculls and hard hearts, (Laughter.) and were then appointed to fill most important stations. He excepted the Military College from this charge. Mr. HUNIE still contended •that the tbarge was unexampled. At Woot.wich, there were 200 pupils ; and one Lieuieriant-Governor, at 4001. a year, did the whole inspection s At Sandhurst, there were 195 pupils, and there was a Lieutenant-Governo r at I,oocif. a yev , and a Go vernor at 1,5001. He protested against the weavers at Bolton or t I c , 65. On the House resuming, proposed for garrisons at home anti abroad. Mr. HUME objected chat, in a variety of cases, Go vernors, and Lieutenant-Governors were kept up, whose appOintments were merely nominal. Some never re• sided at all; and in many places the garrisons were only kept up fur the purpose of plating a certain number of sineeorei at the disposal of Government.— Ile wished to know w by Fort Augustus and Fort Wil liam—two places which the Military Commission had recommended for reduction—were not given up? and why there was an increase in the estim de for them for the present year? He understood that they were still maintained at the desire of the Dike of Wellington.— He was afraid that the favoured Officers, and those of Influence, .sot more reward than the nu.ritorious ones. Who, for instance, was the Governor of Hull, with pay at more than 80(1/. a year? Lord PALNIERSTON said, that many of t:.e posts' were not sinecures, and that such as were, were re wards given to meritorious offis.ers for se vices which . they -cl peiformed. It the appoi :tiients had beer. demolished, of coarse the offices) attached to them would have retained their pay during life ; sn that nothing would have been gained. The trifling inctease in the estimate arose from some addition of pay given to non com missioned ()Seers. Really., the qiestion came shortly to this-- whether the Crown ought or ought not to have it in its ipowet "to reward long services? Sir A: HOPE said that Lord Hill, second in command to the Duke of Wellington in the Peelnsula, was Governor of Hull. Lord JOHN RUSSELL had changed his opini since the last year and could not vote with the Member for Aberdeen. He did not understand the explanation respecting the two forts In Scotland, which were recommended nut to be kept up, by-the Finance Committee. Sir H. HARDINGE said, that one of the forts was necessary to protect the locks of the Caledonian Canal, and the otberwv required as a barrack. Mr; HUME said, that unfortunately these forts were built lohg after the Union took place. He protested against the sum of 5,9001. being paid for garrisons in Gibraltar, in Canada, and the Cape of Good Hope. At the Cape of Good Hope this expence could be borne easily by the colonists, and they would readily pay it if they bad not a Governor who was detested by all the world. Sir A. HOPE said, he thought the largnage used by the Mon. Member extremely unbeitmaing. Tne CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER sald,ik was not to the Honourable Member's opposition to , the vote that his Gallant Friend objected, but to the en.' guarded phrase which he had suffered himself to use, when be stated that the Governor of the Cape of Good lope was hated by all the world. Mr. HUM it said, that if the Cape had another ,Governor, it might be made to pay all its own expenses. In sayiut,that Lout C. Somerset was detested by everybody, he meant everybody at the Cape; and as far as his own knowledge went , it was so— (Ciies e;[ Order.) The ATTOItNEY-GENERAL—A man under accusation! Mr. HUME.—Under accusation! Why, that Was jusuirhst he avid—under serious accusations—for which he ought to be brought_ jostice—(Order, order). W ILMOT-lIORTON said, that the Mon. Member 'realty seised to have constituents in the colonies as well as in'Aberdeeta -(Laugbter).—Hls statement that the people of the Cape would be willing to pay theirowneupeoses if Lord Charles. Somerset was renovate -wasatike incorrect: sad whets be talked of "bringing to )ued -or—was-it right, or usual for a public dicer to be splits of isicbsioway ? $n in Canada, he believed, the Hon. dentleman PPM End it difficult to prove•thit the inhabitants would be happy Shilliahatainthemselvtei . Lord Cluirlea gessiwrsei could eat regrew Mylifigaitsitantil hie suocesons strived at chef Cape;' and the earliest means bad been taken to send sat -a proper alter. .colomjdailkirlitB declared that there was too much of jolibing ailtbielbecjp she colonial system. • •• , i n ICS , sore undirssood ouiogised the Aker who-, .. • - ha been IC!* Ogit so reline Lord Cicadas Somerset. *.Mr. 'HUME said, his Hum. Friend nit glit as well have eulogised Sir Peregrine Tickle—(Losid . laughter). —lle wished Jo know very there were gar:rip:los to be paid for at the Cipe of Good II ipe, when there were none. at Jamaica? lie rivived that the vote be reduced 59014 b e ing the sum for garrisons at Gibraltar, the Cape el Good Hope, and the Canticles. Mr. WILMOT HORTON said, that at the Cape of Good Hope the taxes were imposed by the , Govern ment, and the proposition of the Hon. Member. would be, dile the Colonists should be further taxed to this amount, and which he (Mr. Hortoii) contended they could not bear. Lord PALMERS CON said, that if the Hort. Member objected to this vote because t' - e Colonies ought to pay for their garrisons, the principle would lead - him to the same objec tion with respect to other military forces. Sir It. WILSON was of opinion that the Cape of Good H-ape had the means of paying all its expences. Under the Dutch G•svernor a large military chest had been collected during a time of difficulty. The Committee divided— For the Amendment For the original Resolution ~ • Majority 21 . ' 106 . . For the charge of full pay for reduced, retired, and unattached Officers of his Majesty's Forces ,C 125,500 0 For the charge of ball-pay to reduced and retired . Officers of his hlajesty's Land Forces . . 724,100 0 For military allowances under the same head . 46.430 2 41‘ These resolutions were agreed to without observation. Fur the charge of half-pay . and reduced allowances to . Officers of disbanded foreign corps, of pensions to wounded foreign Officers, and of allowances to the widows and children of de ceased: foreigh Officers . . £107,246 Mr. HU Al l asked whether these Officers were allowed to aell their half-pay. Lord PALMERSTON said they were permitted to sell, as in the case of our own corps, with this difference, that they had not so large an allowance. Mr. HUME said, that such a system enabled them to sell to young Officers, and so to perpetuate the half-pay list. Lord PALMERSION assiiiei the Hun. Member that it was by no means perpetuating the half. pay list, for that those who bought were not a bit more immortal than thoseirho sold. Foreign Officers were slot allowed to sell after they were above a certain age, and unless, they produced 'a certificate shewing that they laboured under no disease or casualty likely to shorten the period of life.—. One good effect of this plan was, that it converted a half-pay list of foreigner., who could not be 'celled von to perve without an Act of Parliament, into one which was available for service whenever Officers might be wanted. No Foreign Officers bad been put en half-pay without having been in service. The Resolution was then agreed to. For the charge on account of the ImPensionen of Chel sea Hospital, and of the Royal Hospital near Xil mainham . . set 9,27 l Mt. MIME asked, whether there was any intends* of dli-1 maatling Kilmainhani Hospital. He would submit that the Par' sinners could be removed to Chelsea. Sir C. LONG said, that undoubtedly if they extended the build ing so as to accommodate 800 men instead of 500. as how, the two estaklishments could be consolidated. But he doubted whether it would effect any saving. . Sir• G. MURRAY thought that Irish soldiers who had fought and bled in the service, ought to have a retreat in their awn country—(Hear). The Resolution was carried. For the Charge of Out-Pensioners of Chelsea Hosp. £1,285,568 Mr. HUME said, that this charge had increased in a most ex traordinary degree. At the commencement of the peace it was 720,0001. and this year it was increased to 1,285,0001. He wished to know the reason of this Increase. Lord PALMERSTON said, the country bad pro vided a reward for men who had gone through a entail., 1 • , of serviCe a dr been disabled in its defence, and such men now claiced the stsppost , Wwilich they iistitled . behlws 'The nunibers,of Abe* pensioners increased sin& the peadif, and 'that ,was tbekause le increase of , expenst. In 1821, the number was 4100 ; in 1822, 81,000 ; ih 1823, 81;000 ; in .1824, 31,000 andanrire odd hundreds; in 1825, 81,800; and in this year, 82,734. After a war like that which had passed, for ;nme time a nrimber of casualties must asccer, greater than the diminution caused by death. lie *l4 certain there was no source of economy front which the House' would Ond so little pleasure, as from that which grudged the pito tance bestowed upon those poor men. Mr. HUME said there must be something wrong when this increase took pl.ce at a rrioJ so removed from the expiration of the war. 13y a salculat!on of his he found that if the whole army had been dish inded in a day at the commence - nent of the peace, and all the r4ficeis in the service placed upon half - pay, - the list would not.have been grea er than it now WAS • Sir CHARLES LONG obserireJ, that in 1822 *he Kilmainham fr..nsioners had been transterreJ to Chelsea llnspital. Tnere had, hoxever, been an increase in the item, fir which he could well ac.ount. The Veteran Ba talons had. been ,transfers ed to this list, and some' regiments arrived from the East Indies. That accounted but partially for the increase, and some persons had been sent through the country- in England, to inquire hedrer some frauds had not been practiced in the Out Pension List. In Engl and none had been discovered. He had pursued the same course with respect to Ireland, but had not as yet been able to find that there was fraud any where. The increase was probably chiefly owing t., the S:rvice Pension List exiting under MA Wind ham's system, adopted when the House and country did not seem to hate the least idea of the extent to which the expence - might he carried. He bad opposed that Service Pension plan at the time it was proposed, and he was now most clearly convinced that it oaght never to have been carried into effect. But that regula tion had been subsequently altered, and its provisions contineJ to those who had enlisted under that system. The rest were under a different regulation, and not entitled to a Service Pension until they had served 20 years. Under the former system, it was competent in many instances for persons to retire on Se' vice Pensions, whose ages only amounted to about 30 years in each case. Sir J. HOPE observed, with reference to what the Honourable Gentleman h id said of the increase in the Half-pay Army List, that the Government was not to blame; for in that particular a reduction had tak-n piace. In 1816, 18 or 1900 officers had been reduced; in 1818, l inear 1,000 officers had been reduced; in 1819, 3,000 officers had been reduced ; and in 1821, 1,000 Akers had been reduced. Air. HUME asked bow it came, tba4frorn 1821, the amount had been reduced by only 40,0001.? L rd PALMERSTON said, that the Honourable Member was mistaken. In 1821, tt e sum was 838,000 i ia 1822, it was 870,00 W. but now it had diminished to 700,0001. so that a very considerable diminution had taken place. The officer; who had been promoted were all senior or second senior Lieutenants, of seven teen years standing in their ranks, escepi one uho had served in the battle of Waterloo, and whose case Was somewhat ptetuli.tr. The Captains who had been pro moted to the rank* Majors, and received half -pay as such, were officers of twenty-six years service. The Majors who had been promoted to the rank of Lieutenant-Colonels; had served Ler twenty-eight years; and there VMS no instence of we being pro 7 mil ed b' purchase over the head of his senior, where that senior himself chow to purchase. Sir E. KNAT,CHBULL observed upon the impri.r, ptie.iagranting perl,ions to mua not more than ;hint years of age. sod spoke.of the necessity which might ultiniarely -arise for. the Hoes* to exercise a constitutional authority on the • subject, which, however, be did not press for tarragon. Sir C. LONG slid, that what he had stated was this : that 1 ersons of that age, it they came within %Ir. Wind ham's system, might demand their .ply as a r'ght, which, under the law, cou'd not b • refused them.— Under Mr. Windham's Act, aster 14 years, or three ,years less, if the service was in the Easi or West Indies, they could. Atlaini pensions for life. General GASCUY NE observed, that Mr. Windham'. Act was a rash system, adopted out of whim, and Its effects would still be felt for 10 years to come. v Glasgow being embed apes lb kay r elks edad dies at guidable' pea* was; and next year, please ,/faip it be was is die am% be t h at I would object to tbe vote altogether. ri Sle 13:11ARDINgSaggielliblieb Ma attbe 7 weft, be& haa nd"' of the fisisinsit'ut the. acedevity 7 several ulcers of rank oil day; 4al tYfir. ?Keene, rendititt appointments unnecertary of the ,„ which it was absolute* retpdsistat stake•at Sandhuhtt 69 M The novae then divided, when the numbers were— 81,0( 'or the Grant, 87 I Against it, St I Majority, 65. thi Oa the House resuming, a Grant of 35,48 W. was proposed for • ~'" ~, '', THE ORDNANCE ESTIMATES. Sir HENRY HARDINGE said, he was to bring forward this subject, and he felt that the House and the country soul& be Satisfied with the details. The House would be please.' to observe, that the sea-service vote was transferred from the navy estimate to the ord nance ; and for the future, it mould be included in the ordnance exiraordinaries, under %%bid) head the expen diture Would be classed. The o! , je t of Government in directing the transfer, WAS not only to sa.re the public money, but to place the direction of the total expenditure-under the cont. of of one hoerd. Another advant age WAS, that the several charges connected with the erection and repairs of buildings, Sec. wool,' be brought into one estimate. For the last century it had been the . custom for this vote to be taken by the navy estimate. The chief objection to this was, that the eontt ol Was taken in the navy, Though the vote affected the ordnance only. The amount of the navy vote this year was 98,183/. making 3,8831. more this year than the last, owing to the transmission of expense from the navy department to the ordnance. The total sum to be voted amounted to 1007,6711. being an into ease this year of 45 4951. AS compared with the past year. It was the intention cf the Government to make an increase ie the artillery regiments of 70 men to each company. It had been the intention to make the increase 80 men to each company, but that was abandoned for•the present. By the present augments tion there would o: , ly be 350 men in addition. It was n)t with any -anticipation of war, however, that this increase was called for. The fact was, that the artil lery regiments were considerably disproportioned to the rest of the army. The augmentation was proposed and adopted in pursuance cf the recommendation of the finance committee of 1817.- The artillery corps en gaged in the colonies had been found insufficient to care yon that branch of the service. There were only l 40 companies on foreign service. The proportion in time of war was, one artillery man to nine soldiers in theline; and in peace the proportion was reduced to one to- 15. -It was rather unlucky, he confessed, to be obliged to appliy to the House for any increase during a* time of tranquillity ; but as the present was a case of necessity, he hoeed the House would not oppose the augmentation he proposed. The companies which he proposed to increase would not have any additional officers. In the academy at Woolwich, it appeared that there were 40 cadets; in the estimate the number put down was 80. In the engineer department, there were no officers on half-pay : this was a good state of things, and he had further to add, that in the artillery there were but 16 second captains on temporary half-pay. With respect to the extraordinaries, he had to observe, that the in crease in Ireland this year amounted to 16,9191. on ac count of the survey which was prosecuting in Ireland, s and on account of the change in the currency which I had lately been effected in.tbat *Ott,. Warts IAN!l to take the present occasion ipt oNsairwelbat the Itt. : i survey was gding on extremely vittl, and' vias likely lead to the insist beneficial results. It was ,ndertak& at the express wish of the country gentleWien 0101014 In order to save the expensebf introducing sappers AV. miners from England and elsewhere; it was,daftmineti to employ the soldiers to do their duty; by whichmeans a very cOnsidertible expense was sawed to tki counts y, and the undert, king was proceedingtorith eve- 7 prospect of success. The sum proposed to be rot( for English barracks amounted to 1d.5,011/i.; for thr-.. in Ireland. the sum to ba expended was 135,0781. lea v. ing a total increase on English barracks of 87;2561.—. This .ncrease was mainly to be attributed to the rem‘tv I and intended erection of barracks at the King's lote , ‘•. It was designed to remove to the rear of the Kiw i . , Mews instead of to the front. .There was a very gam diminution in the ba: rack department of England.. At one time we had .accom.tiodation for 170,000 mer, which accomrnoda.l4.n was now reduced to 42,000. In Ireland there was during•t' er war accommodation the barracks r 80,000 men ; at present there was :Ic. comm dation for only 36,000; mak ng a total re.luctira of 171,000/.—a reduction gre tter than the Finarce Committee had contemplated. In the milita!y stt•re tn-anch f ,, r Great Britain and Ireland there wai a rr. duction of 11,3091. less than the preceding ye.tr ; and he (Sir El. Hardinge) felt it due to the Hon. ltirmber for Mo arose to acknowledge that this reduction was owing to his suggestions. Respectrog the supplemen. tary estimate, he was enabled to ray, that in conse. quence of having placed this branch under the control of competent overseers, m rny military wor ks and built'. ings had been very properly abolished. They inspected the diff.nent works in progress, and decided on vele considerable reductions. With regard to military hcs• pitals, there must be some additional expense incurred in building some and repairing others. He was quite sure that the House would agree with him in the ofe,ite, that the health and lives of our soldiery should be at. tended to. It was then propoiNi that the stun ni 5'2 5491. he granted to His Majesty, for defraying the salaries of officers, which vote was carried. The Re-olution eras then put and carried. , • For the Allowances on the Compassionate List—those of his Majesty's Royal Bounty—and the Pensions to Officers for Wounds £190.79$ ir. HU 4E objected, that there was a progressive increase in this item since the year 1116. Lord PALMERSTON could assure the House that no claim was allowed without a proper title. The Resolution was then put and carried. For Three Royal Veteran Battalions, and Tyro Veteran Companies to be disbanded . . E 9.3,6131 Mr..IIUNIE enquired whether there existed a power to com pel the service of the Veterans in case of.evnergency. Lord PA I.MERSTON answered in the affirmative. • The Question was then put and carried. Mr. H. GURNEY stated a case of some hardship upon the son of an Officer, who had served for fifty years. Lord PA LfiIERSTON 'hewed that the treatment which the Gentleman in question h-od experienced implied no imputation whatsoever upon his character. Mr. Hll 4 R said that Lord Palmerston had Tea Accounts re maining since last year. They were likely to tease the public. In 1808, it was said that three years would be sufficient to tattle the entire. He wished to know wiktber this year would litast:ient fur the purpose ? =• • Lofd PA LNIERST ON hoped that it would be stet for .. 4 the great mus of accounts. Some extraordinary owl t, per. I mo` _ ~::~; complained of the expense treated by the rating and disbanding of corps, Veterans did not serve more than three 4.4001-iseiTetil - pay for life. Would this be the me, he asked, with the seeps whose expense had just been stated "' Lord-PALMERSTON said that the Oscsrs who were raised from half-pay would retire epee half pay. • The House then resumed, and the Re fl.& was ordered to be received to.morrow--(this day). On the question being put, Sir J. YORKE regretted that he did not see in the estimates any thing proposed for the repair of the dock-yard of Pill. A fort had been erected there, when there was noihing to pro tect ; but now that the place wanttd defence the works were failing to decay. Sir H.'HARDIN'JE answered, that plans and esti mates bad been prepared for the works mentioned by the Hon. Gentleman, but the Board of Ordnance had not thought it expedient, in the present situation of the country, to bring them forward. THZ BUDQZT. Mr. BERNAL said, that certain financial diffico.- ties had been spoken of as existing in the country, but that they were not considered reasons for not bringing forward these estimates. Now it was all very well to say that it was "necessary .to have seventy or eighty thousand men, and a proper attendant we:Oriel, but he would ask the Right Hon. Gentleman, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, wl3. ther be would be able to satisfy the House of his baying sufficient funds to answer aU the votes they had passed. AU the estimates had been Increased, and he (M. B.) had beard rumours afloat, that there would be a considerable falling off in the revenge, particularly in the Customs. The Right Hon. Gentleman must be well aware of the reports afloat. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that it was Mt his fault that he had not been able, at alt 'earlier ferfod of the fission, to execute his purpose of laying the floaritial situation of dm country before the House. Various circuntatsucea had oc fatrred to make a postponement necessary, witismet amp odesireon hie part to cause delay. At present he should eontibt . lititiailf with assuring the Houourable Member, that on that day sii i iintliht he would positively state his view of the whole quelsion ,f)f our finance; and he trusted he woud then be able to sbeir.disalithise, that with all due allowance for any defalcation in eV &finite, arising from the circumstances of our commerce end manufactures, the revenue of the country was fully adequate to meet all the de mand which had hitherto been made, or would, during the Ses sion, be made on Parliament—(Hear, hear, bear). ,~-. Mr. HUbIE lamented to Ana that no dispositimilinisM4,ss the pirt of his Majesty's Government to diminish our:Military expels ' diture. On the contrary, it was continually increased. • And'oot only was it increased, but the House was told, that in the wit year in an probability it would be still further bacreneed. Goder such circumstances, the country must necessarily be °destroyed by the pressure of taxation. A much less force than that at present employed would answer all our purposes. What was the use of maintaining thirty-Ave companies of artillery, when ten would be amply suilicient? He protested in the strongest imamate against these large establishments ; and mere particularly with reference to the establishments of the year 171,5, with which he contrasted them. What was the use of having two establishments for the ordnance, one at the tower, the other in. Pall-mall? Even the expense of communication between the one and the other was a considerable • burden on the public. • Sit H. HARDIN GE, in contravention of the statements, of :he Hon. Member fur Aberdeen, pointed out ID detail various r.-diee• tions in tho present estimates, as compared with the *minium 0e former years. In the year 1620 they exceeded the present byl 67,0001.; in the year 1821, by 193,6001. Sir JOSEPH YORK had always opposed the reductiott of Officers' salaries. When the great Minister, called " the Pilot who weathered the Storm," consented to reduce the salaries of Offir.ers, he never made a greater yaw. The Gallant Otter would thither cut awn the deed might, than cement to lose a shilling from the I pay of Dilms in the army or navy. His Majesty's Ministen ought to stand by their active agents and not cut away *blies as they did in 1792. Sir R. FERGUSSON said, it was painful to differ from the lion. Member for Aberdeen, but he thought the artillery should be the last corps reduced. It was in his opinion the best arm of the service. Mr. HOBHOUSE regretted to And that it was intended to re • .ain a battalion of the Guards at thy. Mews, at Charing-Cross. It • ) r 1 C i- R. It i 0 IC 3f 9e d. rd be IO 2$ , .