Star. — London, England, 1827-03-06 00:00:00

_t o ,' 6 of Roman Catholics from Parliament and tber' _t o ,' which he had alluded. The Roman Catholics "" " n o t t been united by the demagogues of Ireland, by an y desire the great maj o r i ty • h id f or a a l of the disab ilities which were im p osed on beta y by the Constitution, but they were united by that priesthood who ap esthooti—(Cheers).—by she i P e ri i i i s a oew character, as political leaders—(Cheers) peered their flocks to unite for the restoration of ; or e Church, which they called the Roman Church, few t he overwhelming of the Protestant Church— (es' ).—The Priests nded eir flocks of te r p gg les of their ancestors, teMi and of th the • ancient glory ojai p t ernacy of their Church. Not content with that, Iy/ calumniated the Ministers of the Protestant Esta• r en t, and called upon the Catholics to unite , and , t heir exertions, to give success and fresh honour to *on ly pure Church, meaning thereby the Roman. Ca. halt c bare b—(Hear.)—That was no exaggerated.pic• i r e of what had transpired within the last few months. D e anne spirit of enthity to the Protestant Church o i c h had predominated of old, had been revived in its vigour: It was that spirit in the priesthood ' e sch had been the cause of all the wars and discon tets in Ireland from the time of Elisabeth up to the r oot day. In Elizabeth's reign thousands of lives and hillions of money had been expended to protect the noestant E.tablishrnent. It was true that at first, • at the peevnt moment, the Roman Catholics did s erepenly protest that the restoration of their religion to sapremacy was the desire which animated them through the intrigues of the Priests, but in the reigp o f James the Second such *as avowedly their object, and for two years Ireland enjoyed all the blessings which Popery could bestow. The Protestant Church wa s pillaged„ and Protestants were treated with scorn ro d deprived of their rights. After a century the sane system was strenuously attempted to be renewed, and he maintained that the Priests had been the real agitators and cause of all the wars and miseries of Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) And he would ask, was the recollection of those struggles lost to the people ? Ant certainly not. If ignorance deprived them of the rover of consulting records, tradition had rendered them familiar with many ; and if tradition was too weak to bring them acquainted with all that had transpired,' there were the demagogues to sound the glory of olden times in their ears ; and if that were not sufficient, the ?rests were ready to enforce the doctrines of the politi cal leaders, and to commemorate the battles which had been waged in favour of their Church. IE any person doubted the character of the discontents and wars which had occurred during and subsequent to the Reign of, Elisabeth, let them consult even the Roman Catholic writers on the subject; and if any one doubted that the real desire of the Catholics was at present to render, , their Church triumphant, and to restore it to its , former splendour, let him look to what was at that moment passing in Ireland. Let them look to the proceedings of the Roman Catholic Association, which had taught its disciples, even in that House, to call England a haughty Mistress. Let them look to the proceedings of that Association which gloried in the misfortunes of England, and hailed with delight the probability of a war ;—(Hear, hear)—who designated the Establi,hed•Church as a curse to Ireland, and had the audacity to misrepreient every act for the improve. tent of that Church—(Cheers). Nor had the Priests stopped there, for they had endeavoured to instil into the mind of every Catholic that Emancipation would be worthless without a perfect restoration of the Roman Catholic Church. Thus had the whole society of Ireland been frightfully disorganised. The Protestant meetings had been interrupted, an effort had been made to exclude the Bible, and the ties between land lord and tenant had been broken asunder by the inter meddling of an arrogant Priesthood. The course of justice had been impeded ; the Protestant Judge, Juryman, prosecutor, and witness, had been persecu ted, reviled, and held up to derision, merely because they were Protestants. But the worst grievance of all was, that a new class of political combatants had sprung up. The Catholic Clergy had appeared in the political arena, and had had recourse to every means within their power to excite the people to discontent. A more dangerous body could not be conceived. It was unknown to the Constitution; it was altogether irresponsible ; and it assumed a power against which the laws had not provided, and which threatened to l , banish even the hope of peace and happiness—(Hear)., The effect of the conduct of that body had indeed been dreadful. The landlord could no longer repose tong-' deuce in the tenant, but be was compelled, like Shylock, to demand the tenor of his bond." He had no option left him—his own protection compelled him to have recourse to harsh measures, as the only , means of checking the influence of such a body. The intrigues of the Priests deprived the landlord of the right he had in the elective franchise of his tenant (Cheers from the Opposition). Hon. Gentlemen should remember that the elective franchise was not held in Ireland as in England. It did not arise from possess ing a fee simple to property of a certain nature, but it was derived from the landlord, who gave it .to his tenad, by asaferring on him a certain lease. He ►herefore maintained that the landlord had a claim upon the tenant in the exercise of his franchise. — (Cheers from the Opposition.) His interest was similar to that of a proprietor of property in a close borough in England.—(Hear, hear.) lie war ready to admit that the system was a bad one, he did net with to (Wend it, bat bad as it was, it would be infinitely worse should the influence be taken out of the hands of the landlords and consigned to those of the Priests.— (Cheers.) The consequence of the interference of the Priests had been most lamentable. There had in num berless instances been a total cessation of all kindly feeling between landlord and tenant; the landlord had been obliged, for the protection of his own interests, to put the full severity of the law in force, and the consequence was, that whole families were wandering about the roads in.a state of wretched destitution. The tenant had been held up by the demagogues as a mar tyr and a victim, as a patriot who had cast away even his home rather than desert the cause of his country, end rather than submit to what was termed oppressiet But than such a statement nothing could be more falls- elms. It was true that the Priests had almost in every, instance succeeded in alienating the tenant from the in-' retests of his landlord; but by what means had their suc cess been accomplished? Why, by threats and by delu sions. By exhortations uttered at the altars, by fearful threats of excommunication, of a total deprivation of the right of confession, of a peremptory denial of ab. Solution, even of the Sacrament, and what appeared to the ikolan Catholic still woe se, even of extreme unction. Noe did the Priests deal in threat; and exhortations only, but they actually did refuse the Sacrament,• and , car are unction to some poor creatures who had con. 'tinned true to the interests and wishes of the landlords. Thus it was that the Roman Catholic Priests abused the influence of their functions; and thus it %vs; that the unfortunate peasantry were compelled, through spiritual terrors, to break their promises. And did be then say too much when he stated that it was not a wish—a desire for emancipation which had actuated the conduct of a great number of the Irish electors at the last election?--(Hear. hear.) This was no idle state. ment ; he held documents in , his hand which would fully bear him out; and he had been induced to col lect those documents from what he had himself wit• sesred in the county of Waterford. Soch was the nature of the papers he had alluded to, that he should neglect his duty to his country, and to act in accord ance with his conscientious feeling, if he did not. read some of them; and if any one asked why they had not been produced before the House, he would answer, that the House could afford no remedy for the grievance they complained of. Even had a Committee been appointed to.examine into them, and a new election for the county had been the result; still that coarse had been thought unadvisable, as it would only make existing wounds the wider, by causing a repetition of the same monstrous interference. In the first place, to skew the real feelings of the tenants towards their landlords, previous to the violent interference of the Priests, be would read an ad. dress which had been sent to The Marquis of Waterford. —Ube Hon. Gentleman then read an address, which was couched is the most respectful, even affectionate terms, and alluding to the wishes of the Priests, expressed a determination to consult the wishes of their most kind and indulgent landlord at the ensuing election.] That address was signed by 510 tenants, and he would ask the House if a more kindly document could be conceived ? What was the result? Why, the greater part *of the tenants who had signed it voted in direct opposition to the wishes of their landlord--(Cheers, and laughter from the Opposition.)—But did they do so from their own wish ? No, the denunciations and threats of the Pt iests had mastered them. They looked with terror at the thought of being excommunicated from that Church in which they had been brought up. They trembled at a denial of confession, absolution, the sacrament, and ex- treme unction. But many of those very men threw themselves on their knees when they saw their landlord, implored his pardon, and stated the way in which they had been compelled to break their promise, and to repay his kindness with ingratitude, as they thought, for reli. gion's sake. He would unfold to the House some of the practices by which the Priests had succeeded in their ads; and having done so, he would askthe House if the restoration of such a religion was to be hoped for in a free country ? He held in his band sixteen affidavits upon the bubject, and he would read some to.the House. —[The Hon. Member then read a variety of affidavits, which, among other things, stated, that, in many in stances, the Priests hail, from the altars, denounced ven geance against all who should not vete for Mr. V.Stuart, and should not oppose the Devil and Orangeman Lord G. Beresford ; that the Sacrament, Confession, and . Extreme Unction, had been, in several eases, refused, because the applicants voted for Lord G. Beresford ; that the Priests had termed the gates of Lord Beres ford's house, the gates of hell, and forbade any one to enter them ; that a Priest bad declared from the pulpit, that unless his auditory turned to Got, and voted for Mr. Stuart, he (the Priest) would not quit them until they were in helq--He should not, hare , read so much of these documents had be OA whiled to spew that his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Plunkett) was altogether mistaken when he uttered so great a calumny as he did against the Protestant Clergy, as to say that their conduct had been as blameable at the last elec tion as was that of the Roman Catholic Priesthood. Another affidavit stated, that a Priest, from the altar, called Lord George Beresford 4,a second devil V' while another one stated that the deponent was actually excluded from trading, in consequence of his having voted for Lord George. Again, another stated that a 'Priest, when in the pulpit, said he would send any one to the devil who should vote for Lord G. Beresford, that •he had directions to do so from the Bishop, aid that he would rigidly put them in force. The most extraordinary affidavit, however, stated, that the deponent was an exciseman, that he had Occasion for a certificate of his baptism, that the Priest repeatedly refused him in consequence of the vote he had given, that k was only by the payment of ss. that he could procure the certificate; and that he was afterwards refused the sacrament from the same reason that be bad been refused the certificate. He re peated that he had read these documents to shew how entirely unfounded and unjust was the comparison made by his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Plunkett)—Hear, bear). $e had thus performed his duty to his country, and he ' should conclude by expressing it to be his firm centric tion the Roman Catholic religion was unchanged; that the struggle of the Priests was not for political power; that they cared nothing for political power, compared to the restoration of their Church to its ancient supre macy ; and that while the Roman Catholic religion continued as it then was, and ever had been, no further concessions could be granted to its professors without endangering the safety of the British Constitution— The Roman Catholic Priesthood were looking for Ca tholic supremacy in Ireland; and unless the evil should be carefully. guarded against, the Protestants would be put down, and a Roman Catholic supremacy established. — (Cheers.) Mr. S. RICE had never before addressed the Heuse oa the question, but so. many Petitions had been en trusted to his charge, that he felt called upon not to give it a silent vote. The Hon. Baronet who had pro posed the Resolution, had most justly asked those who were opposed to further concessions, by what means they proposed to pacify Ireland? To that question the Hon. Member who had just sat down had given an indirect answer. He had hinted, but appeared afraid to speak it openly, that force should be bad recourse to. That the Roman Catholics should be suppressed and subdued, but he (Mr. Rice) would tell the House, that if such a system were unhappily resolved on, nothing short of the utter extirpation of the Roman Catholics would pacify Ireland. The facts stated with respect to the election for the County of Waterford would, if true, afford sufficient ground for setting aside the election. But the witnes , es shrunk from examination, or rather from Cross-examination ; and at last his lion. Friend was reluctantly compelled to adopt ideas adverse to the Roman Catholic faith upon the written affidavits of Roman Catholics, who, by the whole tenor of his speech, were not to be believed upon their oath. He was in possession of wl,ole folio volumes of affidavits, and would have the House to receive as sterling, what he himself described as a fictitious paper currency. But, admitting the witnesses to be good, what a teartul - scen, did they present regarding the forty shilling freeholde s ! The threat of taking from them all the comforts of life was represented a* of no weight in comparison with that of the Priests. This violent attachment to Priests existed only where the Penal Code exhtss remove therefore therm*, and the effect wonlitheease. The first disunion of landlord and tenant in Ireland had not origi nated in the influence of the Priests. He would read an I address to freeholders of the South of Ireland, not signed , I b - y a Doyle or an O'C o n ne ll; b u t by th e p re d ecesS3ll of t 'his Honourable Friend in the conntrof Londonderry—art Address of the Irish Delegates to the Irish People, calling upon them to forget all intentsr comiderations, d to be true only to their Country and their, Goix He honoured and admired the public spirit. which the 'freeholders of Ireland had evinced. The freeholdeis of Waterford; if they had elected Lord Geo. Beresford, -would have furnished a much stronger argument against the claims of the Catholics. than that which was now founded upon their conduct. His opinions were well known, and if they bad voted for him, wield net the inference have been that . they were in different to:the question? He rejoiced that the people Of Ireland could act under motives and impulses supil-' rior to those of mere physical feeling. He had often conversed with the Irish peasant in every part 'of the world, and he bad always found him sensible of the degradation of his country. The accord of public opinion was essential to the due, administration of the laws. He would not stop to defend the eonduct of individuals belonging , to. the Catholic Association. But were those who most violently arraigned, that.con 'duct prepared to say, that if this body were dissolved— if O'Connei and Shiel were to retire to their professional avocations—they would then be prepared to suppOrt the question? If not, the argument drawn from their conduct was a mere make-weight and a delusion. lithe question. was to be considered as one merely of political power,then adieu to all the generous and sublime views of statesmen upon the subject. Two years had passed since the subject was last discussed, and he would ask , if any combination of political power, or of legislative wisdom, could regain the ground they bad lost? Many men, and some of them who were unfortunately blame less, suffered deeply under the responsibility'of the evil they had incurred, and the good they had suffered to escape. The Members from his unfortunate country were entitled to the confidence of the House, for the votes they gave were of a tendency to deprive them of their seats in that House; and, if the apprehensions of the opponents of the measure were well founded, even of their properties and their lives. This was not a qua, tion of a sugar island, or of any petty interest, but of a whole people. Mr. V. STUART supported the Resolution. The interference of the Irish Clergy in temporal affairs, had its apology in the depressed condition in which they were held. Their interference had been grossly exaggerated by the public press. They had been accused 'of employing the threat of eternal perdition to secure Foote; at the late election : but those who thought such *threat necessary,knew little of the condition of Ireland. In Waterford, previous to the late election. they. bad in accordance with their duty, instructed the Electors how they were conscientiously to discharge their duty, Farther than this they had not gone ; for if they had, why were they not called to the bar of that House to answer for a breach of its privileges ? In a recent con versation he had held with the Roman Catholic Bishop of Waterford, that Prelatehad expressed his anxiety foe the strictest investigation, Thipioflnence of the Land-. lords over the Forty4h3liiss Freeholders would Se Ma cured by the concession of these Claims; that, and that alone, could fill up the gulph which now separated them. If the Freeholders were to give no vote but by the command of their Landlords, why not apportion the number of votes to every man according to the number of acres he possessed ? Mr. G. BANKES said be should not complain of the freeholders votes, when given in consequence of difference between landlord and tenant ; but there was ground for complaint when they were guided by priestly domination—when, to obey such authority, I they disregarded those to whom they they were in debted for kindnesses and protection. It was the na., we of ardent genius, such as that possessed by the peat names to whom an Hon. Baronet (Sir F. Burdett) had alluded—to overlook difficulties, and to despise ' dangers ; but if they could be sure of always having such men as had been named as guarantees for the se curity of Protestant interests, when the granting of the Claims might be pregnant with so much danger— then opposition might be waived ; but they had no right to indulge any such hope. Their opponents desired to pull down ; they also desired to substi cute something instead of what was to be removed.— He could guess where the enterprise would begin but be could form no idea where it would end. They would begin their attack on the Constitu tion by meddling with our Church—(Hear). Though he had no reason to entertain fears for the Church, though it was fixed in the hearts of the people, he did not see that it was requisite to do that which would in crease the power of its opponents. Those would de stroy what they did not reverence, love, and prefer; and set up what they did love, reverence, and prefer. Besides, if the claims were a question of justice and right, he did not see why there were to be any ex ceptions. Why even was the succession to the Crown to be an exception ? If he were told that the ring was the head of the Protestant Church. he was also told to view the two Houses as the pillar* of the Protestant Church ; he was told that the Con; stitution was essentially Protestant ; and yet he was called upon to make exceptions, violating those fun damental principles, in favour of the Roman Catholics. It was said that all classes, the Atheist, the Infidel, &c. could be admitted within their wills; but that the Roman Catholics were excluded; it might not be difficult to shew that there was considerable difference; for the former desired to pull down only, while the latter, not content with destroying, would be for set. tiog up something instead of what he had pulled down. Lord Bacon remarked, that si Atheism leaves a man to sense, to philosophy, to natural piety, to laws, to reputation; all which n.ay be guides to an oat. ward moral virtue, though religion were not; but superstition dismounts all these, and erecteth an abso. lute monarchy in the minds of men." Tnat "absolutes monarchy" had shewn itself it. Waterford; it there had displayed its tyranny. He did not desire either to con tinue irritations, or to say any thing that was calculated to promote them ; but when they spoke of the character of the Roman Catholic religion, they could not forget what had been once said in that House while urging this question. It was asked (by Mr. Grattan, we believe)—where were the splendours of the Vatic** now? where the terrors of the Inquisition? and what danger was to be apprehended from the Polo? But what have we seen? That same Vatican. estored ; indeed we had helped to restore laugh.)—We bad also seen the walls of the turinhi t i o n again raised—het which walls we had not helped is restore; and we had beheld the Pope who was before driven from his seat of power, who was repte rated as no longer dangerous—restored to the Papal chair, and its present occupant worthily and faithfully adopting the course pursued by his predecessors—( Hear )—We find him looking back to the dark ages, and seeking to reintroduce the feudal system; and, above all, sip• ported by that old_ally of Catholic power, the sanctuaty --(Hear, hear.)—He bore no enmity to his fellow sub• jects of the Roman Catholic persuasion, but he was firmly persuaded that it would be highly dangerous to admit them to places of trust and power—(Hear.) Mr. BROWNLOW was convinced he could-not add to the effect produced by the eloquent speech of the Hon. Baronet, yet was desirousof making a few &ter. vations. The Hon. Member who had spoken last, in a speech which embraced a wide geographical range, had not once mentioned Ireland. In that country a question had arisen of the highest importance, and his ' hope was that Hon. Members would discuss it with unprejudiced minds. When 'the House should have calmly heard the evidence given by hish Members they would doubtless go t o a di v i s i on , a n d' d ec ide with the solemnity due to a question of life and death. He had heard- it said out of that House,- 4 4 We will die at our post; die with our colours nailed to the mist, and conquer or go down together." He might ask, notwithstanding such observation% whether the'present state of things in Ireland could last for any time? The House ought to consider how much the power of the Roman Catholics had increased ; they bad gone so far in opposing that body, that they must now go back and repeal the restrictive laws. The Catholics to a man were discontented ; they w. re determined to be emancipated. It was said the present state of things in Ireland had been induced by the Catholic Association, by demagogues; but, whatever they might be called, they had the confidence of the people, and the moral strength of that country. Mr. MIT, hawing voted upon this question was or eight times, was desirous of making a few observe. - tions. He could not but consider it a Constitetional question—one on which the safety of the Constitution depended. He had been told Ireland could not re. main in her present state. He was ready to•admit that she could not remain as she was. His hope was, that prosperity might soon revist the, land ; but. it was not because Ireland could not remain as she was, that this question was to be conceded. With due sub. mission to the opinion of others, he thought the best prospect of Ireland rested on reformation. S 'me said, how could they hope to controul six millions of people? His did not wi,h to controul them, but those who made the question depend on numbers, re minded the Hon. Member of an Irishman who said, " I do not care whether I am right or wrong, but, by St. Patrick, if.you do not grant what I want, I will set fire to a train, and we will go to H—ll together." The Hon. Member did not know whether the Union was for the advantage of England, but it appeared to him to be a cloak, undet which a dagger was concealed, ready to strike at the vitals of the British Constitution. It was said t . Achy were Catholics precluded, from seats in that as sembly? The answer was, because they. were . disqualified like many .others. Protestants, couhl ups sit in Parlia,ent without t yote nualificaticws whiek I:tbeConstiatur oy moired. Clergy wetreeachidarl. !—'Why d • nor complain? An-llonentrablit Member had said ) it was not against the Coronation Oath to.concede this question, and admitting that in sertion to be well grounded, he did not think the conces. skis of the question would pacify Ireland. Several writers had declared that the establishment of the Church of Rome in England, was the main object which the Catholics had in view. He believed that was the object. His hope was, that the House would open their eyes, and reflect thit the people of England had providentially escaped danger which this sect had pre• pared for them. Using a common proverb, we might say, a " Burnet child should dread the file." Oppo sition to this sect, was the ground on which the Monarchs of this country had aso-nded the throne. He entreated the House to consider that the prejudices as they were called, had once been justly entertained. . The danger which excited those feelings might again occur. Mr. MOORE rose to express his opinion on the question. It was impossible when that House was ' Called upon to redress a nation's wrongs, for any Mem ber to rise without feelings of the better sort. He was satisfied that if the question was calmly considered, it would be found impossible to concede it consistent with regard for civil and religious liberty. The question on the present occasion came before the House for the accompllththent of one object only. The Catholic Claims had formerly been attended by some quali. fication : some safeguard for the Protestant religion.. Now it hid but one object. The claim was for political power, unqualified, unbiassed. He might ask that • Hon. Assembly, whether they were prepared to throw down at once those safeguards-which the wisdom of 'heir ancestors had raised, without any scheme of security ? He, for one, did not refuse to give political power to Jsßoman Catholic became he held a different tenet. was not on account of his faith that the Roman catholic was excluded, but because his tenets allowed a systeis of dominion under the supremacy of a foreign Power, exercising a jurisdiction too often directed to political objects—too often directed to political mea. sures. That was the reason the Roman Catholic was refused. He had not relieved himself from that thraldom, and could not expect from a Protestant people that share in Government for which they were disqualified. Mr. O'Connell and others bad said, that there was no reasonable ground for objecting to grant the question. It ought to be conceded, it was said, as a matter of right. Others had urged a com pliance with the• Claims of the Catholics on the ground `of expediency, and that they ought to have all the ad. vantages of the Constitution. They were not thett, called upon to consider the elements of a Constitution, or whether the Constitution was good or not, but the request was this :—change a Constitution which has gone on for three centuries upon the principles of liberty and independence. When the Honourable Baronet reminded the House of the spirit which excited men to deeds of arms at Cressy court, he could go further, and trace from the Norman Conquest. The wish to ... and religious liberty had led to the Test and in the reign of Charles the Second, the Acts and Mary, and the Toleration Acts. The betty had raised the British Empire to wh, had established the Constitution they were that day to abrogate. The Hon. Member us the state of Ireland, observed, that he different from that taken by several i I I I i r I : • i l l 4 : I . 4. 1 4 i 1 . f i i • -r ,f ' 1 4 if i 1 cr . Ili 11 i f 1. sr _ and :L e fin e the f establish civil and other Acts cu of William le spirit of li- rhat it WAS. It , ere called oa ber adiqtiag e took a views Hon. Man- 1 -