Star. — London, England, 1830-12-14 00:00:00

I 1/1 to Inas than it so If, to Oats election have turned oat the sitting Members—Lord Kennedy, eldest eon of Lord Cassilis ; and Sir Charles Cockerel!, a large dealer in troney ; declaring that they have both been guilty of bribery—guilty of tempting a number of their fellow-subjects to betray a high c ,nstitutional trust, and to disgrace themselves and the House of Commons, and bring shame upon the order to which the no ble and wealthy personages so (most justly) dismissed from their seats hod hitherto been considered as belonging. But we hope, that as one sort et retribution has been already administered to the noble Lord and the wealthy Banker, another and even more signal example will be made of the base community upon whom they exercised their corrup tion, —namely, by disfranchising the borough of Bush= for ever. A hint to this effect was given by the Chairman, Mr. Clive, who moved to have the report of the Committee taken into consideration on Thurs day next,—by Mr. Buncombe and by Lord G.Lennox, whowere mem bers. Po:yr.—Lad Grey, in the House of Lords last night, afforded a most ample justification of every opinion we have lately offered to the public relative to the boasted disinterestedness of the Whigs. We have more than once fearlessly stated that the primary principle of Whiggism, whenever change shall throw the officers of state into their power, is to appropriate to their relations and dependents all the tangible emoluments In all and every department of the Administration. Soon after the acces sion of Lord Orey to the chief office of government, we chewed that in the course of a short week he had made ample provision for nearly the whole of his fantily,as well immediate as collateral; and will be seen by his lord snip's avowal last night,thnt he had this sinister object fully in view from the commencement; for he u ndisgu isedlystat es that after so long an exclu sion from (Ace as that which he had endured, he considered that he was justified, when the means were in his hands, of providing for his rela tives and connections. So much for the disinterestedness of Earl Grey in his acceptance of the highest office in the ministry ! There is however contenting remarkably outdid in this declaration ; though we are bound to say, that there is something in it more shameless than has ever before characterized the conduct or sentiments of the most profligate of Minis ters. The remark made by Lord Brougham that the retirement of the Irish Chancellor would be attended with no expense was last night ex-' 'dinned by bold Grey, who argued that as the salary of the Chancellor ass to be reduced front 10,0001. to 8,0001. the pension of 4,0001. during the life of Sir A. Hart, would be counterlatlanced by a permanent annual savin4 of 2,001)1. The report as to the appointment of Lord Lyndhurst to the office of Chief Baron, which we yesterday contradicted, received the official contradiction of the Premier last night. TIMEB.—The anxiety of the public on the matters of sinecures and pensions undeserved, was sure to lead to some inquiry before the Christ mas recess of Parliament, and the subject came under discussion last night in the House of Commons. The declaration of the Chancellor of the Exchequer was of a highly satisfactory character. Every possi ble reduction was promised or in a state of execution, and broad prin. epics of retrenchment were avowed. The salary of the Lord-Lieute nant of Ireland has been reduced by Government from 30,0001. to %,0001,—that is to say has been docked of one part in three. We du not say that this ratio, which is applicable only to salaries of very high amount, should be adopted in all; but that the principle of diminution should be carried into effect is highly necessary; and, above all, it was most gratifying to be assured by such a man as Lord Al. ti nip, in the name of the Government, that " all places, whether high or low,.were to be abolished which were held by individuals perform. tag no duties." For our own parts, in looking over those pension lists which havebeen recently brought to light, we cannot help thinking, that if substantial justice were dealt out to the parties therein, it ap pears, enjoying pensions, nine-tenths of them ought to be sent to the tread-mill for the plunder they have committed, and were intending to commit upon the public purse. When the Chancellor of the Exchequer,' however, speaks of the proposed reductions, let not the country be mi._ taken,—let it not suppose that these retrenchments will be effected without difficulty. The sons and daughters of corruption will make a stir. Hithnrto they are tranquil, or comparatively tranquil, but we hear they mean to oppose reform upon the broad principle that the pre cent corrupt state of the representation is preferable (as to them, no doubt, it is preferable) to anychange whicii:can be proposed ; and we have little doubt that some plea will be formally and unblushingly put forth against the extinction of sinecures. The country must therefore be firm in the support of Ministerial reductions. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, Dic. 13. The Earl of SHAFTESBURY presented a petition from Lyne Regis, against the duty on coal sea-borne. The Duke of DEVONSH IRE presented a petition from Derby, against the duty on newspapers. TOBACCO. Lord FARNHAM moved that certain returns relating to the growth of tobacco in Ireland be printed.—Ordered. The Earl of G LENti ALL presented a petition from Ireland, for the repeal of the Union. On the motion of Lord TENTERDEN, the Bill for the better Ad ministration of Justice, by reforming certain practices in the common law, was read the third time and passed. A number of petitions against Negro Slavery were presented from various parts of the empire. PLACES AND PENSIONS. Earl GROSVENOR rose, pursuant to notice, for the purpose of snoring for returns relating to the salaries and emoluments derived by the Clerks in that House. The Noble Earl said, as they were so near the close of the present extraordinary Session of Parliament, he should take the liberty of making a few observations on points at this time im portant to the public. In stating lila opinions respecting the salaries and pensions enjoyed by public servants, he begged to state that lie had not held the least communication with his Majesty's Government on the subject. The remarks he had to make were entirely his own. In the first place, when certain papers were laid on the table of the other House of Parliament (on the subject of salaries and emoluments,) there was an omission of emoluments of officers in the Common Pleas, and also of the fees and emoluments of officers in that house. The noble earl considered this omission the mere effect of some mistake in making out the returns ; but it was necessary, in his opinion, to pro duce the papers. flaying some time ago inquired into the office of clerk of Parliament, he found it was held in reversion ; but in conse quence of his repeated questions on the subject of places and pensions, the noble earl was happy to say there was a prospect of considerable say. ing in the public expenditure. The noble earl cautioned the public against the flattering expectation of a great reduction being made Ly the present government. He gave them full credit for the very best in tentions, but it was quite impossible, with the enormous debt there was hanging over the country, that any Government could produce substan tial relief. He did not expect much advantage from the labours of Committees, but thought the committee on the poor laws might obtain useful information. '1 he heavy burdens felt by the public bad not been without one advantage. The question of economy in the public ex penditure bad been raised, and public men had been forced to look danger in the Lice. Much had been done to relieve the public, and he had no doubt much remaMed to be done. Ile would ray with the great poet : " Sweet arc the uses of adversity, Which like a toad, ugly and venomous, %Viers yet a prscioue jewel in her head." The distresses of the times would lead to proper regulation of the na. tional expenditure. The noble earl defend e d the l a nd e d in teres t aga i ns t the attacks made upon that body. They were not fairly treated. If that interest watt not eupporied what would become of the monied in. wrest? If the landed iuterest tailed, the monied interest would vanish into the air. Attention sal not paid to the real situation of the fund. holder. Jew or Gentile might hold funds- The person holding funds might withdraw the same from circulation ; carry their money out of the country or conceal it. They made a trade of it, and were not bound to contribute to the taxes ; whereas the landed interest could nut evade the taxes. It was most essential to the public interest that the relative situations of the fundholder and the land proprietor should be duly ap. preeiated by the Governnient. The noble earl then alluded to the office of Clerk of the Council, - which, on the death of Mr. Buller, remained open. By riot filling it up, a saving might have been made. He had °an told in that house by a noble earl (Bathurst) that it was not filled up, but he found the office again bestoued upon another gentle. man, Mr. Bathurst. (Hear, hear.) Ile also alluded to the civil list pensions, and observed that a noble duke, when he announced his resignation of the office of Pren:ier, did not acquaint the house of hie intention to recommend peris:oners who had since been put upon the list. With respect to the Lord Chancellor of Ireland (Sir A. Hart), the noble lord did nut see ground for the removal of that learned person 1 • but if he was to be removed, the country aught save the 4,0001. pension by giving Sir A. Hart an equally lucrative and cc zessary appointment. The noble earl concluded by moving there be laid before the house an account of all the salaries and emoluments, above 1,0001. enjoyed by the clerks of the House of Lords, from January, 1829, to January, 1830; and also an ac count of the various sources from which arch emoluments are derived. The Marquis of IJA NSDO%VNF. said 1:c should not have risen upon Me noble earl's motion had be not been called upon by the question !.e noble earl had coined with respect to the appointment of a clerk to t'ie council He should be able to satiety the noble earl and the house z.s to the person en whom the office had been conferred, and explain the mgulation upon which it had been placed. Within one day after the rot& marquis received his Majesty's commands to discharge the duties his then department, he received a communication from his noble predecessor, sating t h at on t h e lat h o f the last month, the day otter the death of Mr. Buller, who held the office of clerk to the taineil, he had taken his Majesty's pleasure with regard to 1 ' e successo r t o that office, and that his Majesty ban listed to signify that the office was to be filled by Mr. Bathurst, the noble earl's son ; arid the noble earl further informed him, that be had 'he same day communicated to Mr. Bathurst hi s M a j es ty's pleasure, .1.1 that the office had not been filled up. The Ake having been thus conveyed, he, the 'wide marquis, had no hesitation in say( , be consi dered himself obliged to take st e p s f or filli ng i t up . H e him. self bound, with regard to the person designated, to carry the appoint ment into effect, but felt, at the saute time, it was open to him to take the advice of his Majesty on the subject of reduction to be made in the sa lary of the office, more particularly as the noble earl (Bathurst,) on the 25th of November, stated to him, that It was this intention, if he had remained in office, to put Mr. Bathurst's salary lower than the rate of eatery received by any former Clerk of the Council. His Majesty found that a large reduction might be made In the office, without injury to the public service. Mr. Boller received 2.50 w. per annum, and the reduction made the salary in future 1,2001. a year, and if any additional duty was imposed en the two clerks in the office no additional allowance was to be made. It was also regulated that if either of the clerks should hold any other office of more than 5001. a year, the whole of that sum should be deducted from the salary re. ceived as Clerk of the Council. Mr. Bathurst did hold an office in the Exchequer of I,OOW. a year, and 5001. was consequently deducted, leaving, upon the whole, a saving to the public in the salaries of the Clerks of the Council, amounting to I,7ool.—(Hear, hear)—a year. The object of his Majesty's servants was to reduce all salaries which they could fairly reduce. The Duke of WELLINGTON explained his conduct with respect to the civil list pension list. He had considered it his duty to recom mend his two private secretaries for pensions of 2501. The gentlemen who had done him the honour to hold those situations had examined all the papers which came to the First Lord of the Treasury, and the government information they possessed fairly intitled them to a pension. The noble duke justified his recommendation of Dame Mary Rae, the widow of the Lord Advocate, for a pension, but he admitted he had not proceeded regularly, as the regular course would have been to wait un til the civil list act passed before a recommendation was made to his Majesty of persons to stand upon the pension list. Earl GREY considered the introduction of questions like the present, without due notice, highly inconvenient. He could not object to the recommendations of the noble duke, although he was quite sure, with. out the admission of the noble duke, the recommendations before the passing of the Civil List Act were irregular. Perhaps the noble duke might be justified in his deviation by the acts of former ministers. In alluding to the change In the Irish Courts of Chencery, the noble earl observed, it was necessary that the Chancellor of Ireland should be connected with the Government of the country ; hence it was, a change of that Government uniformly called for a change in the Chancellorship at the same time • (hear,) it was true, that it had been frequently said, the same political differences did not exist with regard to Ireland, which rendered such a change necessary— but, passing that question, he must observe, taking into consideration the disturbed state of Ireland, it certainly did occur to him (Earl Grey) when he came into office that no one was better qualified to hold that distinguished office than the individual who had been caned to it • be sides his great legal attainments, he was particularly well qualifi ed for his office from his extensive local knowledge obtained by a long resi. dence in that country. He (F./al Grey) considered by that appointment the Catholics would be conciliated, as he was one of the moat zealous and eloquent advocates, looking at the same time to the Protestant cause in frtlantl, and in short to the general state of that country, its interests could not be better advanced by any other appointment. The noble earl then alluded to the very advanced age of Sir A. Hart, the retiring Chancellor, as a palliative for the pension of 4,0001. granttel to him by the government. With reference to the appointment of his (Earl Grey's) relatives to:office under the new administration, he begged to assure their lordships, that not one of these appointments was made because of relationship alone; no individual would have been appointed to office had he (Earl Grey) not been convinced that that individual was I eminently qualified foe office (hear). If any individual so appointed should be found otherwise, he (Earl Grey) would of course submit to the censure of the house (hear). He frankly stated to their lordships, that upon such an estimate of their characters had the individuals in question been appointed. (Hear.) Lord FA RN HAM took occasion to observe, in reference to the ques tion of the Repeal of the Union between Great Britain and Ireland, that such a Repeal would be prejudicial to the interests of both coun. tries; he was satisfied that the great body of the inhabitants of Ire. land were opposed to the measure, and would shed their blood to pre vent it. Earl GREY considered that a Repeal of the Union woald not only prove injurious to both countries, but absolutely be their de struction. (Hear, hear, hear.) Persuaded of this, the Adminis tration would not hail to use those measures deemed most effectual to prevent it. He should lament if his Majesty's present mi nisters should be considered for a moment adverse to the Protestant in. terest in Ireland. In making the appointment to which he had already alluded, he conceived that both the Catholic and Protestant interest would be best suited, and he should regret if in that house or elsewhere, he held out any statement which might be considered as hostile either to the interests of one or the other. Lord GODERICH was of opinion that the appointment of Lord Plunkett to office in Ireland was one of the wisest steps that could be adopted. After a few words from Lord 005TORD, Earl GROSVENOR replied, observing that he was only anxious no misrepresentation on the important topics of which he had spoken should go abroad. The motion was then agreed to. Lord WHARNCLIFFE then presented several petitions against negro slavery, from various places in Yorkshire. Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Dsc. 13. EVESHAM ELECTION. Mr. Ctiva, the Chairman of the Evesham Election Committee, pre sented their Report, which set forth that Sir James Cockerel and Lord Kennedy had not been duly returned ; and that both thew candidates, through their agent or agents, had been guilty of bribery and corrup tion. On the motion of Mr.CLIVE, a new writ was ordered for Evesham. The evidence before the Committee was ordered to be printed. Mt. PLANTA moved fora new writ in the room of Mr. Vesey Fitzgerald. He had accepted the Stewardship of the Chiltern Hundreds. Mr. O'HARA brought In a bill to amend and enlarge the 2d Gco. IV. for making a canal from Loch Coran to the Bay of Galway : Lord LOWTHER presented several petitions from parishes mWest moreland, " respecting the claim of tithes," to use his lordshiy's de scription of the petitions.—Ordered to lie on the table. Col. WA LPOLE presented petitions from King's Lynn, Norfolk, against the duty on sea-borne coals, and praying that the same may be sold by weight.—Ordered to be printed. REFORM ♦ND PETITION !ROY SCOTLAND. kir. KENNEDY said he had to present petitions from various parts of Scotland in favour of that great measure Parliamentary Reform.— ((lheers.) He had last Session declared that it would not be long be fore Scotland petitioned for Reform. The first was from the Council of Ayr, the Council considering they held their privileges for the people. the second was from the town of Banff ; the third was from tbe incor porated trades of Kirkcudbright; the next was from the incorporated merchants of Edinburgh. (Cheers.) He had no other connection with Edinburgh, than as a friend to Reform. He had ventured to tell the honourable member for Edinburgh, that he had not correctly represented the sentiments of Edinburgh on the subject of reform. This petition tended to prove how much reform was desired in. Edinburgh. He then presented a similar petition from Perth.—They were severally ordered to be printed. LIVERPOOL ELECTION. Mr. ROBINSON (we think) presented a petition from John Rogers and others of Liverpool complaining of an undue return for that place, and to be considered Jan. 6. Sir R. FERGUSON presented a petition from Craig, for parliamen tary reform. Also from Kingborn, and from a place in Forfarshire, ac companied with the ballot.—Ordered to be printed. Mr. DUNCOMBE presented petitions from Whitby and Hull, for the repeal of the duty on sea-borne coals. Also a petition from Skeel, Yorkshire, for the repeal of the duty on sea-borne coals. Sir T. ACLA ND presented petitions from Plymouth and Teign. mouth, for the abolition of negro slavery. Several similar petitions were presented from places in Westmore land, by Lord Lowther; from a village in Bedfordshire, by Sir R. Inglis &c. &.c. 1 1 COAL DUTY. Sir T. ACLAND presented petitions from Torkey, Ringsbridge, and Holdsworth, Devonshire, for the repeal of the duty on sea-borne coals. He gave notice that, in the event of the Government not moving the repeal, he should, on March 8, move for theszepeal of the duty on sea borne coals. Mr. FRENCH presented petitions from Ballinaaloe. Ross, and ten other places, against further grants to the Kildare-street Society. Also a petition from Ballyclare, for the repeal of the Union. TRUCK ST/TEM. Sir R. PEEL presented Petitions from Walsall, the manufacturing districts, and Bolton, signed by 14,900 persons, against the Truck Sys tem. He should support the prayer of the Petitioners, and also the Bill that was about to be brought in to increase the penalties for paying wages otherwise than by money. He should do all in his power to put down so pernicious a system, because it so materially degraded the lower classes. Sir H. ST. PAUL supported the petitions, and said that something must be done to relieve the working classes. Mr. HUME said wonderful changes were indeed taking place, when a member who had supported every expense said, be called for relief to the working classes. (Hear, hear.) But the cause was not in the truck system. In Kent, Sussex, Norfolk. Hampshire—the truck system had never been heard of; yet in these counties how great had been the distress. (Hear, hear.) The right honourable gen tleman who presented the petition had allowed his feelings to carry away his judgment, and to prejudge the question to be brought forward to-morrow. If that question was carried, there would be an end to the freedom of trade. The complaint was not new; it was 300 years old, and had already been the subject of numerous Acts. The distresses of the people ought to be inquired into. Sir H. ST. PAUL said all his votes had been conscientiously given. Lord BELGRAVE objected to the truck system. Mr. Alderman WAITH MAN observed, that the truck system was certainly one cause of the distress. If it were part of the free trade system, he hoped never to bear free trade mentioned again. Mr, LITTLETON said his bill would differ in many essential points from that moved lam year. Mr. TENNANT trusted that a remedy might be found for the evil of the system—Ordered to be printed. TER WEW POLICE. Sir R. PEEL presented a petition from St. John, Hampstead, on the subject of the new police. He also presented one from Deptford, in fa vour of the new police. In that place they had now a regular police, and only two burglaries had been committed since its establishment. As in. quirt' was to take place, he trusted that judgment would be suspended 1.8 to the expense till that inquiry had taken place. As to the increase in Poplar front 1,4501. to 6,0001. that occurred from levying the rates on the West India Docks, Ac. parties who had before paid nothing for the watch. Mr. HUME said, he was not against the police--quite the contrary : hut, as he had repeatedly declared, inquiry only could remedy defects, and remove misconceptions. Mr. WILES said, in consequence of the Act, one parish had its poor rate increased eight-pence in the pound. Sir R. PEEL replied, that there could no increase—the new rate must be instead of the former watch-rate. But this statement again showed the necessity of waiting for the inquiry, and suspending the judgment thereon. Petition ordered to lie on the table. EEG RO SLAVERY. The Marquis of CHANDOS presented a petition from West India Planters. He complained of the clamours raised for the abolition of Negro Slavery. He would support that abolition, but not without compensation to the Planters. He had to complain that the West India planter waa in a very tottering condition. Mr. MA RRYAT complained of the language used by some of the petitioners who called for the repeal of the negro slavery. One petition denounced some of the slave owners as sitting in that house, " like Sa tan am3ng the sons of men ;" that they " dealt in stolen goods know lug them to have been stolen ;" and that " the petitioners burned with holy indignation at the bare mention of compensation to the dealers In human blood." He maintained that the condition of the slave was much misrepresented, and added, that he was ready to join in any mea sure for the amelioration of the condition of the slaves. He trusted that the ministers would see that justice should be done to the planters. In the meantime, let the Government send out a more efficient inquiry to the West India Colonies. (Hear.) Mr. BRISCOE observed, that the question must soon come before the Parliament. The several petitioners urged that the slave trade was of the most detestable character, and suspended the ameliorating righ:s of rational beings. The national conscience was at last awakened, and it would not be at rest till that was shaken off which had occasioned the disquietude. The petitioners for the abolition founded their claim on the sacred volume, which was the true charter of the rights of n.an, which did not sanction the buying and selling of human beings. Mr. WELLESLEY concurred in the argument, that abolition should be accompanied with compensation. This, he thought, would be acting in the true spirit of Christianity. Mr. K. DOUGLAS said that the petitioners justly called for com pensation and more extensive inquiry into their are. The Ministers had stated that they would rely for public approbation on pursuing what forwarded the public good he trusted it would be founded on public jus tice. if the slavery were abolished, as we could not do without sugar, we should be protecting the trade of Cuba, and where we could not in terfere with the proceedings of slavery. Lord IMORPETII said there was misrepresentation on one side, and exaggeration on the other; but inquiry must soon take place, and all that could be desired was, that justice should be done. The question could not rest in its present state. Mr. 111ACA ULEY thought that negro slavery should be abolished as speedily as possible; at the same time, he must contend that compen sation should be made by the public for injury that might be inflicted on private persons. He lamented the exaggerations, but he must say that the quantity of petitions was no fault, because there were societies that espoused the abolition. If they resulted from these societies, be it re membered that they were not founded on any corrupt principles. It was only mind acting on stint'., and spreading information where it was wanted. The 'Vest India body was quite as close, compact, and power. ful as were these Societies. The magazines, reviews, and news. papers were in favour of the abolition, more or less; and yet, to support the press, the West India body had in onevote given more than had altogether passed through the societies' hands. The ex. aggerations ought to be forgotten, and the question considered. A statesman of a capacious mind could settle this question, he was as. sured ; but settled it must be now, and soon. The desire for it could not be allayed ; it had yearly increased—then where was the hope of avoiding the emancipation of the slaves ? Mr. BERNAL was glad that so important a question was to be treated with temper; but, there had been much unmerited abuse. It was no very agreeable thing to be stigmatized as " dealers in human blood." As to the question, however, he did not think it wasof quite so easy adjustment as the hon. member for Caine (Mr. Macauley) thought. He wished fur the amplest inquiry, not for the sake of the planters only, but on account of the negroes themselves He lamented to be compelled to say that the question which was now raised so ardently, and which had lain dormant for so many years, had been used, in too many instances, for improper purposes. Mr. EWART said that if there were to be sudden emancipation, compensation ought to be an indispensable accompaniment. Gradual emancipation ought to be the course: but he doubted whether it would improve the condition of the slave or the master. At all events there ought to be the amplest inquiry. Mr. F. BUXTON said, the demand for inquiry, now so suddenly' bursting forth, was rather suspicious. It would occasion delay ; and was not that the object ? The roving commission that was now desired would not terminate its labours till all the present slaves were in their graves, and till all anxiety about the question should have stopped and gone. Had the inquiry been asked ten years ago, it would hays looked better ; but at that time he called for inquiry. The question was settled, inquiry was unnecessary, the abolition of slavery ought to be enacted. As to compensation to the unfortunate—he would not say guilty—party, it might be just from the government, the inciting party ; but while the question of compensation was settling between the two guilty parties, what was to become of the innocent and suffer. ing party—the slaves ! The question must be settled. Such a feel ing had arisen that it could not be stopped ; and he only hoped that it might be settled amicably, and not left till all sunk into one comment ruin by neglecting the granting of justice to the innocent and Lettering slaves. Col. SIBTHOIt PE maintained, in the present state of the country, compensation was out of the question. Sir GEORGE aMURRAY said, he hail always endeavoured to take a common-sense view of the question. He had desired to keep aloof from the opinions of the enthusiastic, the interested, and those who sought to make it the theme of popular eloquence ; while in office he had endea voured to guide his conduct by such principles. The question be had always thought would be best left in the hands of the Government—but on this principle, with the view of not stopping short of the complete extinction of slavery. (Cheers.) Comparisons had been made between the peasantry of this country and the slaves. How could there be com parison between freedom and a state where the highest stations wag open to the enterprising, whatever might be his birth, and the slave deprived of liberty, and subjected to the lash of a drivel ? As to the proposed com mission of inquiry, he admitted that its only effect, if not object, must be delay. (Hear.) Sir It. PEEI, hoped that the most cautious language would be used, and that, looking round to what was passing in the world, he thought all would admit its importance. Having given education, having made concessions, ought they to raise hopes that they might not be im mediately prepared to gratify If they were not prepared at once to extinguish slavery, why talk of the merchandise in human beluga! What could be the tendency but to promote civil, barbarous, and un. mitigated conflict ? The question ought to be carefully and prudently promoted, for whatever might be the result no good could be effected but by the gradual promotion of the question. Lord A LTIIORP admitted the great importance of the question. He, hue ever, trusted that all would be careful not to use inflammatory language, and to avoid exaggerated stalemate. He had always con tended fir the emancipation of the negroes, and that it should take place at the earliest possible period. The period had not arrived; but to be prepared for that event, they ought to use every possible effort to render the negrocs worthy of emancipation, by bettering their condition, and improving their morals. They ought to he retied to such a state, that when emancipation arrived, it might be used for the benefit of the objects of it. and not for their destruction. To promote immediate emancipation— to effect that emancipation now, would inflict as great evils on the al..ves, as it would produce injury to the proprietors. He was quite prepared to add, that it was the duty of the government to make every effort—to promote all practicable improvement amongst the slaves, and to ad. vance them in civilization as much as possible, in order that they might be prepared for their just emancipation— fur that great object which a civilised nation ought to have constantly its view. As several members had spoken on this subject, he could not forbear making these few re marks. Mr. O'CONNELL would ask what they called compensation : those gentlemen who were contending for or consenting to it, could not devise a more effectual barrier to emancipation. The hon baronet has talked of not using language to excite feelings; but if we are to do an act of justice we must not stand still—there was a strong call upon our sympathies when there were men and women, our fellow subjects— for they were subjecti,of the same king—bending under the lash. It had been urged about wresting the land from the proprietors ; it was never meant by any one that he had heard speak on the subject to take the land of the proprietors, the land would remain the same, and the negroes would only become like the peasantry of England who would be compelled from necessity to labour for their living. Some gentlemen talked of the probability of disturbances ; he (Mr. O'Con nell) would tall them of the shame and crime of slavery. If the Hans Members who spoke thus were mortgaged themselves as the pose Degrees wars what would they say if they were to be told by norms having the ascendancy over thew, that they must wait their mos. Menem The paled war come when it must be done ; and in the mow time every measure should be adopted for ameliorating the eenildes of the slaves, and the period should be fixed for their stand_ ribil• Bfr ROBERT PEEL said, that every obeetvaden erlllll6llweed gentleman bad just made was only reiterating the seal nems be (Mr E. Peel) had expressed. The learned gentleman had said a day should be fixed for the emancipation ; the honourable baronet had no objection to that, and if the learned gentleman so clearly saw the possibility of doing so, why did he not bring in a bill at once for thin 1,...rp05e ? that the honourable baronet meant to remark was, the indircretion of altercation in the mean time, and inciting hopes and m.pectidiona Li.st could not be realized Al. 111ACA ULM' explained. The petition laid on the table. GAME LAWS The Marquis of CHANDOS gave notice that he would stut forward Isis motion on the Game Lawa, which ►tood for that night ; he would postpone it till after the holitisp. PARLIAIIENTAILY lICFORM. Lord J. RUSSELL begged that the hon. member fur Colcheqes would withdraw his motion, which stood for this creaky, on parliamen tary reform ; uit was the intention of his lllajcs•e's guru-moons, as soon as possible after the holidays, to bring in a bill on the most litt.rsl principles for that purpose. COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANi. On the motion being made that the House resolve it►elf into a Eva, Whitt of Ways and Means, Mr. KENNEDY rose with a copy of a Report on which he h..d a few remarks to make, and as they related to the Hon. Member for Edin burgh, be regretted that the lion. Member was not in his place. That. Gentleman, he was informed, was bulling two situations, the salaries of which, together, were 3,350!., but no entry of these salaries was 'in the Report, although It had be :1 moved for, end was intend. t 1 to give aNU return of all such salaries. This was a most even.: !1 error, and what could be thought of tech a return ? '1 he hon. member eulogized the conduct of the present Ministers, for the earnest they 111,1 given of retrenchment, in submitting their own salaries to the conc. deration of the House; but no great s .ving could possibly be expected in that department. The departments. .uch as the two salaries th: hon. member had just noticed, would, however, emit of immente scope for curtailment, and retrencbmeon should be applied to all sine cures. The reason the hon. member had taken up the question seas to censure the act of misleading the house by such a document as the ore he now held in his hand. Celt SIBTHO it l'E tl:Tiar,tl that the truth and the whole truth was not the list to which the hen. gentleman had just alluded. The pliant Colonel bad paid the utmost attention to it, but he could not under stand 1.. He had a question he would like his Majesty's ministers to itllswLr tegsediag the noble lord who was to undertake the embassy to France. The gallant colonel bad been informed that he was to be sent out upon the same salary that the former ambassador had received. In referring to the list of persions in the report, he was only astonished that the people of England should be gulled so long, to let the money be torn front them to give to those who only fatted themselves and afterwards sought a provision for their families. Lord PALMERSTON, in answer to questions regarding the noble lord about to go to France as ambassador; he had to state that he was going upon the old salary. The late ge v.rnment, previous to their re tirement, had revised the salaries of amhassadors, and had made teduc eons, and the present government Lad in the meantime, in this appoint ment, adopted the settle of the late government ; but as the appointment belonged to the civil:list, and the house would have an opportunity of coesidering it, when that question came before it for discussion, it was far the house to consider, when it was fitting to bare ambassadors in foreign countries, to have them properly supported ; but the salary was another question. Mr. LONG WELLESLEY thought that the diplomatic service was not overpaid ; and on the list there were none had received pen. lions but those who had rendered long and valuable services to the country. Colonel SIBTHORPR dissented front the hon. member who had just sat down regarding the diplomatic service, and cited the embassy to Vienna at a salary of 14,0001. per annum. From the Ottoman tnibissy ; there were no less than five pensions, four of 2.0001. a-sear, mid one of 10001. The gallant colonel was in the net of enumerating rm.ett, bat sat down amidst cries of order. 31. ATT WOOD put a question to the Chancellor of the Exd cqt.er, (as we understood, for the hon. member spoke in a 'very h w teut,) relating to the state of the country, and the means that minkers in. tended to adopt. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied, that it sas not the intention of his Majesty's Government to propose any alteration in the •alue of money. Mr. SPENCE adverted to the 'many and expensive sinecures that existed in patent places, several of which he quoted, and if Government did not take them into consideration and bring in a measure for their abolition, he thought they wouid lose their popularity. Mr. HU3IE was happy that this subject had been brought up. lie had consulted with the Chancellor of the Exchequer and others of hie Majesty's Ministers on the means to reduce the expenditure a country to the means of its revenue. The errors in the return that Earl been pointed out were only small to what might be discovered. There was scarcely a possibility to obtain a fair return. The lion, member stated, that he had at one time been upon a Committee, on the hatekot t - coach return, and there were many subterfuges resorted to on that occa alon. One person appeased es holding tour places, and having Gorr salaries ; but it was ascertained he held a fifth place, which he bad not returned, and when applied to he refused to mend the report, because it was not customary to enter this tiith situation on the rep. :t. The hon. member did not duubt that perhaps the absence of the hon. menthes for Edinburgh's name from the return might be for a simile reason and it was possible that if he were required to mike dr.: tetunt be would refuse so to do, because such a thing had nerd been exacted of him before. On more particular inquiry it would be found, in all probability, that not mote than two-thirds of the real amount appeared on the return. It ass the intention of the honourable member to mote for a committee of inquiry into the pension list, &c. of all above 1,0001. a year, in which way about two millions of the revenue were expended; but he could tell the Chancellor of the Exchequer, or any man, that to come at the truth they must have a committee em powered to institute a strict inquiry, and to have an opportunity of cross-examining rigidly every individual they thought fit. Ile was de sirous to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he would have any objection to such a Committee being app Anted after the recess. The Hun. Member t.roceeded to ray, that of the patent pensions, amounting to abour 150,0041 a year, he considered that they had all expired with the demise of the Crown, and that the present was a very proper time to do them all away, except those who had earned them by real services ; but all sinecures ought to be done away entirely. He hoped the Noble Lord would prepare a measure to this effect ; if not, he (Mr. Hume) would give notice now that he would make a motion to that effect soon after the holidays. The Hon. 31entber would prefer Government having their own Committee ; but one must be had for the satisfaction of the House, and for the aatisfaction of the country. The Chancellor of the EXCHEQUER would beg of the ho;.. house to allow his Majesty's Government to examine into all these Mai, ters, and when ihey had done all that they could, the House might re-con sider the arrangement. The Government were determined to reduce the expenditure as much as possible. They had already abolished seve ral useless places, and they would abolish several more. The time that this country was to be governed by patronage had gone past. Mr. R. GORDON, when lie heard so much said about retz och. tent and useless places. was surprised to see that an appointmen: lad been made by the present government to the Chancellorship of the Duchy of Lancester ; it might be his ignorance, but he always con sidered it a useless office. The bon. member was certain, from the na. ture of the civil list,that the pensions granted on it died with the demise of the Crown. He thought it shameful to see the list urowded rah the names of relatives of Cabinet Ministers—whole families of them. The pension list of England had always been refused to be produced by the late Minister; it was only the Scotch and the Irish lists that they would ever submit. He was desirous to know regarding the appoint. meets in Ireland : he had elsewhere learnt what the anangements were regarding Sir A. Hart, which the Chancellor of the Exchequer had said would relieve the country of the expense of the retiring petsion. He understood it to be, that 1,0001. of the retiring pension was to he de. ducted from the yearly salary of the newly appointed Chan:elk:it. He was well assured that the appointment would occasion great disgust in Ireland. Mr. 8. BATESON made similar remarks regarding the keepers of the seals of Scotland and Ireland. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose to answer the taunts that had been so freely bt stowed upon the govermntnt. With regard to the Duchy of Lancaster it never had been considered testi nue. Ministers could net appropriate it without the concurrence of his 31a. jesty, and he did not consider the Keepers of the :seals useless places; but their salaries was another thing. The potent hind Lieutenant of Irel..nd had been sent out on the same salary as the last Lord Lir u t 3lr. SUODEN said that it w.ts absolutely necessary that 31itistres should have places fur people abort them to assist them in the dr.•:ei of their offices. He would not he like the hon. member fur 310d:este, who would burden a man to the last point at the smallest salary ; and it was necessary to have a new honorary places to assist the government, Mr. O'CONNELL eaid,that these were not the sentiments t eon:teed by the hon. member for Middlesex; he only objected to salaries being paid where no work was done ; he had neve: offered to compel a min to take any place against his mind. But these patent places were fre quently handed down from generation to generation of a family; tied on the list now might be seen the third generation in inheritance, and to pay this expenditure there were fees exacted even from the estates of insolvents. On the Irish Pension List there was 43,0001. and not a man on the list had ever done any service to Ireland, except the family of Lord Romney ; nor he might say to any other country. He would support the motion for a Committee of Inquiry. Lord ALTHORP rose in explanation. Mr. O'CONNELL noticed the rumoured appointments and changes in the law department of Ireland. which, he paid, would be attended with sedans consequences. If they had taken place, he could say that he could almost arraign, in feet impeach, those who hail caused them to be made. The Bar and the Beach of Ireland ought to have been eon. suited. Nothing in all his political career had ever given him•a much pain u to =pros himself then to the present Governnient. whom he was so desirous to support. Mr. ROBINSON would protest against Government keeping use. is.. Meas. He hoped that ministers would adhere to their ',tufts. i , i