Star. — London, England, 1830-02-26 00:00:00

004 which he had the honour of that night bringing forward in a ,ery different shape. Had he had such an object in view, he should have moved a humble address to his majesty to remove the minis. ,1m (Hear, hear.) This would have been the course taken. It ,natter of considerable surprise that such obsimations as those te which alinsion had been made, as to the object he had in view I,t inging the motion forward, s hould have proceeded from such • • ; ticater. Inquiry was what he sought into the distresses which pervaded all classes, with a view of affording relief. He denied that, t* the house should accede to his motion, it would have the effect ..;* removing ministers from office. He would now proceed to offer -.roe remarks on that part of that extraordinary production, the ;,.:evil delivered by the Lords Commissioners at the opening of Pkrliament, which spoke of the distresses of the country being OA— of a temporary nature; that they arose from unavoidable oati4es ; and that they were beyond the power of legislative rell the minister. sera sincere in their opinions—if they 4.1 the information on the subject which they could obtain—ifg believed that the speech from the throne gave a true description of ;be state of the country, they had nothing whatever to fear from a fail investigation on the subject. '.Vas it not their duty, was it not ti.eir interest, to court inquiry into every part of the subject, and rot rest satisfied with the majorities which they might possess, and which majorities would be equally possessed by other ministers In the same situation ? He contended that the system now acted upon by the government was most injurious, most ruinous, and would bring destruction upon the interests-of the country. The noble duke at the head of his Majesty's government, whose name would be written in the brighrest page of history as thb deliverer of Europe, and to whose gallant achievements his Country was so deeply indebted, would be also consigned to posterity, unless he altered his present course of government, as contributing to the ruin of that country. The situation of the country was such as no man could contemplate without horror and dismay. The sufferings of the agriculturists excited no sympathy, probably because their complaints had been uttered in respectful language, for recent experience had shown, that if they had funned assoc iations, collected rents, and adopted the language of menace and intimidation, they would have been better attended to. What, he would ask, was the situation of the agricul ture of the country at present ? The rents, which were still paid in some parts of the country,—for they were by no means paid in all parts of it,—were paid not from the profits of the farm, but from the capital of the fanner. Let not such of their loniships as had been fortunate enough to receive their rents at their last audit lay the flattering unction to their souls, that they would be equally for tunate at their next. They must be aware, that already had many tenants been driven from their farms, and consigned to bankruptcy and beggary : that the capital of others was daily extorted from them to meet their current expenses, and that when that capital should be exhausted, their ruin, as well as that of the land. owners, would be consummated. He knew that there were many landowners who possessed incomes from the funds, from houses, from canals , and fr om various other sources—he knew that their shim. tion was, therefore, different from those who had no other means of support than those which they derived from land ; he knew that they might, therefore, be indifferent to the continuance of the dis tress in which the landed interest was at present involved. To such persons he would say, that, whatever they might be inclined to do with their own rents, they had no right to dispose of the capital of their tenants. He was well aware that it had been said, that the re. medy for the existing distress of agriculture was to be found in a reduction ofrents, and that that advice was daily given by those who had no rent to receive, and, indeed, no rent to pay save that of house-rent. He would admit to those persons that when every spe cies of agricultural produce was diminished in value, a reduction of rent was not only just but necessary ; but then he would bid them recollect that such a reduction would only transfer the pressure from the land-occupier to the land-owner; and that as such pressure would compel the land-owner to rednce his establishment, and to cat out of employment many of those who at present depended upon him for subsistence. it would only tend to aggravate the pro. sent distress. But the reduction of rents was talked of as if it were a new system. Was that the case ? Certainly not. Rents bad been already reduced 50 per cent. and it was not to be supposed that the process of reduction could be continued ad itsfinitens. Besides, in some cases no rent was paid at present ; and where no rent was he should like to know how it could be reduced. Hs to. mind their lordships, that according to a statement which had re. cently been made at a large public meeting, and which had hitherto remained uncontradicted, thexenses of an awe of arable land, exclusive of the rent, ex ceeded by Os. the returns derived from it; so that the owner lost his rent, and the occupier the labour which he bestowed upon it, Was this the result of unfavourable seasons ? It was a curious circumstance that the noble duke referred the source of our present distress to the pre valence of unfavourable seasons, and that the late Earl of Liverpool had attributed the agricultural distress of 1822 to a long continuance of favourable Gessoes, which had created what lir was pleased to call a superabundance Of produce. Curious as the circumstance was, it would be most ludicrous if it were not in its rssuits most lamentable. One of the worst consequences of the ex. isting agricultural distress was the constant increase of the poor rates, which bore upon the landed interest with a pressure which was almost incredible, and quite intolerable. He knew that in that fertile district of England, the vale of Aylesbury, the poor-rates were in the proportion of 30s. an acre. What, then, could remain to be decided as profit between the landlord and the tenant ? Their lordships would also recollect the statement which had been made on a former evening by a noble viscount (Torrington,) res the condition of the parish of Mereworth, in which he resided Pe ! thi rt appeared from that statement—he quoted from memory .for he had not a copy of it—abat the amount of the local assessments in that parish reached within 401. of the amount of its whole rental. He 'himself was acquainted with a parish in Sussex, where all the pro ms& of the land in the parish did not suffice to maintain the poor, and where they had been obliged to apply to neighbouring parishes to give them relief. (Hear, hear.) He therefore ire. plored their losdahips to look at the progression in which the country was advancing, and to consider what was the first stage on their road to ruin. The first stage—a , which he was afraid that they had almost reached—was that thelanded proprietors were not the real possessors of their own estates, but held them as trustees for a large and increasing number of fundholders. The seat stage, which was not far distant from the first, was that that class of persons, supported at the public expense, and, unable, from a defalcation of the rents paid to the landed proprietors, to obtain the comforts to which they had been long accustomed, would demand, lid by their superior numbers would endeavour to force a partition oi the land. Their lordship. were already acquainted with the de. piorable state of the labourers in more than one district of the country. Their lordships must have seen that they have been degraded to the lesel of beasts of burden, and that they had been yoked like cattle to • the wain, to draw loads from one place to another. Was that a situation to which their lordships wished to see labourers reduced in England—in that country which boasted of its free constitution, and which looked down with an eye of compassion on the condition of its neighbours These evils were not, however, confined to England ; they extended also to IxLnd, as he would prove by an extract from a letter which be had LITZ nom a highly respectable person in Cork, as a proof of the truth of his assertion. Before he read that letter, however, he would just call their lordship? attention to the expressions used by no less a person than the Chancellor of the Ex. chequer, while alluding to the same subject in the other house of parliament. Tbat right hon. gentleman was reported to have ex. pressed himself thus--" It was not to be denied that there was a great and severe pressure of distress on the manufacturing and cultural classes of the community in some *parts of the united king. dour ; and if he excepted some portions from that summary, it was because be believed that there were parties.wWch, so far from being visited with such infliction, were enjoying a comparative state of easel mid of comfort. It was oblervable that the hen. baronet (alluding to Sir Edward Knatchbull) had confined his statements to England only, and had omitted all notice of that past of. the united• kingdom which at all times commanded much of the tare. and attention of that House—he alluded to Ireland. lithe honourable baronet had investigated the state of agricultural produce in that annoy, he would have found that great prosperity and comfort were existing, and he would likewise have found that there were parts of this country in which much of the pressure of distress had arisen from the free introduction of Irish produce; so that in proportion as one part of the kingdom was depressed, at least another portion was benefitted and advanced." Now this was reported to have been art. tered in a house in which there should have been at least one hun dred Irish Members present, every one of whom could have borne testimony to its falsehood. He would now return to those facts which proved that the assertions of the right bon. gentleman were unfounded. The writer of the letter to: which be alluded, stated in Bendon—a town of 12,000 ichabitants—there were 4,000 in a state of the greatest distress ; and that in the city of Cork more than 9,000 persons were wholly supported by voluntary contribu tions to the house of industry , nom whence it was administered for their support. The writer of the letter also lidded, that bacon pigs had fallen 30 per cent. in price during the lest twelve months--that oats were almost unsaleable—that wool wee in the same state, and had been parted with for Od. a pound. He also added, that he : had received several notices of the surrender of a farm which had for. merly always been let with a fine ; and that debts, instead of being recoverable, were in almost every case being compoun ded fee at the rate of six or eight . shillings in the pound. [ Lord was here observed to smile, and express his dissent.] T h e noble lord might smile, but it vrottld be wall for him, if, as the possessor . of Irish estates, ale did not rod the statement but too true. Having said so much ton the subject or the agricultural distress, he would now entreat 'Heir lottishiff tq Mosider what we the state of the manufacturing closes. Witltbereexist a man possessed of a heart to feel for the situstlos of his fellow creatures, whose bosom did not throb with paw when be beard that th ou. sands of unfortubst a r 41 4 s out of employment were com pelled to drag on a miserable existence with an allowance of twopence halfpenny a day. It behoved ministers to consider well how long they were likely, with any military force, however considerable, to preserve tranquillity in the country, and to keep the discontents of so many classes who had little to lose and little to fear from breaking out into open rebellion. It was said, however, that the master manufacturers were prosperous, although the men might be in a state of suffering. He feared that the condition of tile master manufacturers was deeeptious; and that, although their production might be large and their trade apparently great, the profits arising from it afforded no remuneration for the employment of their capital. He knew, and a noble lord near him could con. tradict him if he was wrong, that the price of one of the staple arti. cies of the trade of Birmingham had fallen one half, and the Taps of labour had been reduced still more lamentably—he believed la the extent of one quarter of their former amount. The noble duke may say that much of this was owing to the productive power of steam when applied to machinery. He was well aware of the of. facts likely to be produced by the undue extension of the powers of steam. He knew that it tended to the injury of the labouring classes, and was not attended with corresponding benefits, because the advantages which it produced by giving chap articles to the con. sumer, and a large stock to the manufacturer, were more than counterbalanced by the additions it made to the poors' rates. But even supposing that some of the distress of the menu. facturers was owing to the power looms, it surely could not be said that those power looms had been introduced since last session. The power looms were in existence years ago, and the distress which has been so apparent for the last two years could not well be connected with them; besides, if the noble duke was informed so well as he ought to be, he would know well that the power looms had been given up in several districts. It never, however, had been con tended that the production of power looms was not for the benefit of the masters. AU that was said was, that it enabled them to fabricate far beyond the quantity that could be consumed ; and he confessed it was very natural that they should endeavour to make up for the diminution of their profits by the extent of the quan tity which they could bring into the market. He had heard a great deal of excessive production, but when he found that those who would always:purchase the comfort and necessaries of life, if they had the means, were unable to do so any longer, he thought the decrease of consumption would be found to have gone on in an *sect ratio with the increase of distress, and that the excessive pro- duce was not the consequence of over manufacture, but of a dimi nished means of purchase. There might be, he had no doubt, a glut of produce at a particular season ; but to say that the manufacturers would go on for yaws piling up heap on heap of manufacture without end, would be to say what every. man knew was not the ease —that the manufacturers of England were totally igno rant of the principles of trade, and possessed not even o prudence in the management of their affairs—(Cries of hear, The noble duke had informed their lordships, in that elaborate pro duction which had been lately read to them—he meant the speech from the throne —that the export in the last year of British produce and manufactures exceeded that of any former year. Now the noble duke should knew that this test of the prosperity of the country was extremely fallacious. He did not mean to deny that the quan tity, as declared by the official value, had increased; but he meant to matend that the quantity, as measured by itereal value, had very amdderahly decreased. He trusted that the noble duke would agree with him that the profit of the merchant depended upon the quantity and the price. If so, the noble duke ought to have shown, if he wished to make any just impression upon the nation, that not only the official, but that the real value, also, of the export had in. creased. Now the manufacturers of England were ready to prove, V aped were, at the bar of their lordships, that not only the external but that the internal trade of the country too, was conducted at present without profit. He believed that the noble duke would not deny that goods which bad been sent to another hemi sphere—and which had been offered there in vain for sale—bad boo re-imported into this country, and sold here at an immense Ise. How could such a fact be reconciled with that pros =which the noble duke had stated to be prevailing in parts of this great commercial community ? It was easy for any man to say that it was not possible for Parliament to prevent competition with our manufacturers in foreign markets. Be admitted this to be the case—but what then ? You should encou rage, instead of depressing, your home market, which is at once the Most secure and the most extensive of all the markets which you possess, consuming goods estimated by some at 9.loths, and never estimated at less than 4.sths of the whole amount of your manta factuted goods. With respect to the foreign trade of the country, he wished their lordships to turn their attention to the state of our trade with our colonies in the West Indies. According to infor. nation which he had received lately from a great West India pro. prietor, and which might or might not be correct—according to in formation which he had lately received, the tax on the higher de. scription of sugar was fifty per cent. which left a profit of only 2s. per cent. on the higher sugars, and no profit at all upon the lower. What was the state, he would ask, of the shipping interest? The ship-owners found it impossible to carry on their business, not only without realising &profit, but also without incurring loss; and many of them, of late years, bad preferred parting with their ships at a certain loss of forty per cent. to continuing to hold them at the risk of incurring a loss still greater. To this lamentable state was that interest reduced, to which our ancestors attached so much import ing., which was essential to our maritime commerce and greatness, and to our insular protection and defence. He had now placed before their lordships the existing condition of our agriculture, our manu factures, and our trade; and in surveying the situation and circum stances of all these interests they would find no ray of hope or coin. het to remove the general gloom in which they were all involved. The Noble Duke, however, had discovered one topic of consols don for their Lor d ships. He had found out that there had been an increased traffic upon our canals, and that the tonnage ;employed upon them last year had exceeded the tonnage of former years. When the Noble Duke referred to such copies of consolation as that, he must himself be in a state of great distress. lie did not know whether this amount of tonnage was proved by official re turns, or whether it merely rested on a memorandum of the Noble Duke's own; but let it rest on what grounds it might, one thing was at least very clear, that there could be no satisfactory Inference or conclusion drawn from it. The Noble Duke would not deny that the same efect would certainly be produced if the goods had been shipped upon speculation, and bad been hawked about fur sale from one part tithe country to another. That would give the semblance of increased traffic, but would not be a criterion of imestased prosperity.—" Then," said the noble duke, " look at Os now houses which are springing up on all sides of you ; those who pay rent for them cannot be distremed." One would suppose from such an argument that the noble duke, who had travelled in the course of last summer through a large portion of the country, had not travelled beyond the bills of mortality. New houses might have been built, but they had not been built by the productive dames. He bad not heard of any new mills having been erected ...afany new manufactories having been formed—of any new build ings having sprung up, which were to be used in promoting the in , dusszy of the productive claws, and, until he did hear of such ode 'treble consummation, he should deny the validity of the noble duke's argument on the number of new houses which had been erected ' in the metropolis. But then, said the noble duke "the retail dealers throughout the metropolis ars not distressed." Beal Stanhope) would admit that there were many retail dealers In London who were not distressed; but, if the question were put to him as to their con. ditlon throughout the whole country, he would reply that it could be proved beyond a shadow of doubt that the retail dealers were in great distress, and especially in Ireland, where they were core.pounding their debts at the low rate of 2s. or 3s. in the pound.... (Hear, hear.) But to what did the argument of the 'noble duke amount at best ? It never was contended by any person that eves] man in the country was in a distressed situation. If such were the 'case, hernuch doubted whether those whom he was then addressing would be *Mingle) that place as a House of Lords:" (Hik4, hea t h) —Who had ever said that the fundholders and the annuitants were distressed ? They might continue to flourish, like rank and noxious weeds, among the general ruin which surrounded than. (Hear, had.) But even the fundholders, and persons with fixed in comes, were injured by the prevailing distress; not that their in comes were not at present increased, but that the security of those incomes wan materially diminished. (Hear, hear.) That secu rity depended on the state of the revenue, and that revenue was stated, in the speech from the throne, to be on the decrease. The words of the speech were-- ,, The national income, during the last year has not attained the full amount at which it had been esti mated." Would it not have been fairer to have stated that It had fallen short of the amount of former years. But if the statements which:were periodically published of the revenue were to be de pended upon--and the noble duke knew better thin he did *halter they were to be depended upon or not.—there was a falling.off In the revenue of the last year, as compared with that of the former, of 1.300.000/. The speech, however, expressed an opinion that " the diminution was not such as to cause doubts as to the future prosperity of the revenue." Now, whatever doubts there might be ' upon that point three weeks ago, those doubts must be much increased now, if the infornatica which he had received wen correct, that the revenue was decreasing week by week, and particulary in the excise, which was generally considered as the best criterion of the prosperity and comfort of the nation. It was impossible that the n eat= should do otherwise than decline, as it was founded upon a ion which wee daily decreasing. Ile would, therefore, ask Male lords whether, when they saw in the country a girstate of distress, affecting every branch of iniustry, affecting eelurity of annuitants, and of those who derived their incomes km the funds, affecting the public revenue to a great extent ; he would ask noble lords whether, when they saw this distress, they were not to inquire u to the causes front which it originated ? Was it to be attributed, ash bad been attributed by the noble duke, to some epidemical disorder, new is its nature, and tremendous In its ravages, which affected at one and the same time all the interests of the country ? It was said io the speech he m the throne, those the distress was only partiaL—that itprevailcdooly among the apical. tural and nsanufactiaing claws in sane parts tithe united kin Such was the language of the royal speech, but he should wish know where that part of the country was in which no distress was to be found. He contended that the distress was nearly universal, and that its tendency, unless it should be checked, was continually to increase. He conceived that there was no hope se fallacious as the supposition that the great and intolerable distress under which this country at present suffers could be remedied by being left to itself, and that it would not go on progressively increasing, and becoming more and more intolerable every day, if scene means were not adopted to arrest its course. The preient situation of things in this country was the most alarming, he would say, that had ever been witnessed:le a n t / period of our history. He would not except times that had by, and which he was himself old enough, in WOW degree, to remember ; not even the period of the French re. volution; and, if called upon to do so, he was quite confident be should be able to prove, to the perfect satisfaction of their lordships, that the state of the country was more perilous at present than it had been then, or at any former period. The times to which he alluded were those when extensive conspiracies were formed throughout the country—when a rebellion was actually t elt n nti i in Ireland—when a mutiny had broken out in our fl ee when revolutionary doctrines were industriously circulated througous the country. The great majority of the inhabitants of this courtly were then prosperous, happy, and contented (hear, bear); and not, as they now are, afflicted with intolerable distress, which had naturally excited general discontent ; which discontent might unhappily hereafter, should no means be adopted to remove the cause of it, be converted into actual disaffection. Never he would say, was there a period of our history in which such cense queues were more likely to arise than the present. It there. fans materially behoved their 'Miltss to endeavour to ascertain the ceases of the prevailing distress, with a view to its removal. ,(Hear, hear.) In the speech from the throne, to which be 'ad ?Arcady referred—in that clear and luminous document, they had been infbnned that this distress was attributable tv unfavourable seasons, and to other causes over which parlia ment bed no control. Now, he would contend, on the contrary, that it was their bounden duty to endeavour to ascertain what the real causes of the distress were, in cedes that they might be enabled to judge how far it was possible for them to apply a re medy to it. It was their duty to institute an inquiry into the causes of the distress with which the people of this country were afflicted. Such an inquiry was called for in order to satisfy the people of Eng land:—(hear,)—and this he would tell them, that the people of this country would not, and ought not to be patient under such intolerable sufferings as they now experienced, if no inquiry would take place, and if no attempt should •be made to grant then relief.—(bar.) It was also necessary for them to enter upon the inquiry which he proposed, in order to ascertain what re medies were applicable to the present appalling state of things. As to the nature of those remedies he should abstain from giving' se opinion at present. All he eked for was an inquiry, for the pupae of ascertaining them ; and that appeared to him the more called for now, as, from the speech from the timely it was clear that there existed no Intention on the part of his Majesty's Government to propose any remedy what. our for the consideration of Parliament. In that speech, not in words, at all events in effect, there was an admission it l i s t part of his Bfajesty's ministers that they had no remedy to =iirHe knew he might be asked, what good would result uch an inquiry ? To that he would answer, that the good N result from it must depend upon the mode and spirit in which such an Inquiry would be conducted; and he would ask, in return, whether the evils which at present existed might not be increased if such an inquiry should be refused ?—whether it might not appear to the people of this country that, in refusing such an inquiry, their Lordships were deserting their duty, and neglecting their interests ?—and whether by such a refusal they would not be likely to incur the well merited reproach and even hatred of the people of England ? He was not about to propose the appointment of a Select Committee for the purpose of making this inquiry. What. ever advantages might result front the appointment of Select Com mittees upon other subjects, in the present instance the case was of ,too pressing urgency and paramount Importance to admit of the de lays incidental to such a mode of inquiry, and that great minuteness of investigation,:such as was now carried on before the select com mittee upon the East India trade, he conceived would be totally im practicable, and was besides quite unnecessary in this instance,where sons mode of affording Immediate relief was indispensably required, and where a minute and detailed inquiry was by no means the thing that was wanted. If a select committee was appointed, what would be the consequence ? (Hear, bear.) The noble duke opposite would of course take the selection of that committee into his own hands, and he would take are who should and who should not be named upon it. (Hear, hear, bear.) Many of the noble lords ap pointed upon such a committee might never attend its sittings, while the noble and official lords opposite, who would be care fully included amongst the members of that committee, and who would not fail to be punctual in their attendance, would no doubt, by the weight and authority attached to their situations, con. troul the opinion and guide the decisions of such a committee. The result would be, that, after a minute and uselessly protracted inves. Option, the committee would terminate their labours with the pro duction of a voluminous report, establishing the fact of which all persons had been previously aware, of the universality of the distress under which the country suffered, and concluding with the statement, that the committee had no remedy to propose for its relief. It was necessary that this inquiry should be =ducted fairly, openly, and publicly ; and it was with that view that be would propose that it should be conducted before a committee of the whole house, who might consider the resolutions which would be proposed—discuss their various details—have evidence laid before them as to any facts that admitted of doubt, and have any practical question, with regard to which it might be desirable to obtain additional infor mation, elucidated by the evidence of Forms practically acquainted with it. In that way he conceived that great advantages would be derived from the discussion of the various resolutions which might be laid before them. All the various causes of the distress would be investigated and ascertained, and in that way they were more likely than by any other mode of proceeding to arrive at the real source of the distress, and at the proper remedy for its removal. If he were asked what specific remedy he had to propose, be would reply that his first object was to have the inquiry instituted, and in that case the suggestion of the remedy should emanate from the committee it self. But if his proposition should be unsuccessful, and if no in. quiry should take place, then it would be his duty, as well es that of other noble lords, to lay such suggestions as should appear to them best adapted for the present state of effigies before their Lordships, in the present shape of a series of resolutions. If he should, however, succeed in his present motion, he trusted that the noble duke opposite would not object to the discussion of such resolutions, where they could be most conveniently and advan tageously discussed, in a committee of the whole house. If his ma jesty's ministers should oppose this motion, such opposition would manifest a desire on the part of government to object to a full amid fair investigation of this important subject. He knew it would be said by many who spoke without thinking, and who appeared to be totally unconscious of the meaning of what they said, that a proceeding of this kind would only encourage false hopes amen the people of this country. He would ask if it were du- Vim to encourage false hopes, would it not be still more danger. ens to tell the people of this country that no hopes whatever ex isted, and that his majesty's government had no intention to pro pose a measure for their relief, or for the redress of the grievances under which they suffered so severely ? Though It gave him much sorrow to make the remark, he could riot avoid observing that, in his opinion, the country did not entertain **strong dWeeo l respect for his majesty's present government, and that it did not build ghope on any thing which that administration was likely to fie ig. But be would ask if it was not wise to encourage fallen and tell the country that all power was not lost within it.... ow would net say that it wee useless to look to any quarter' fie relief; and though the disease was in the body politic, still Ii th t the body would endure, and he believed that sooner or later would work out its own cure. That cure which twould be 'what was called a radical one. (Hear, hear.) A cure which must be radical in order to avert the progress of the evU, which would :be terminated by bringing to a common ruin all existing institutions. It was said that this country was in an ad: venom! state ; but the question was to what kind of state was it ad. vancing. They were edvancing from distress to terror, and from the decline of revenue to perhaps a national bankruptcy. lie cond. deed that by the course the legislature was pursuing ft was adding to the general disorganisation, and bringing on an almost total dia.. solution of the body politic. He begged leave, before he concluded, to state to their lordships what was the actual question before them at that moment. It was not what were the causes of the distress, or what were the real legislative remedies which should be applied. He did not say that his remedies would be successfuloun did he pretend to discover what the actual cause of the sufferings of the people were but the question was shortly and simply, whether or not it was the ' duty of parliament, in tote present state of the country, to institute' an inquiry. (Hear.) That question was not one difficult to be an. owned, but when he saw it stated in the speech from the *rue that distress did not exist generally, he kit it due to their lordships and to the country to call on them to decide that no din. erase existed, and if they admitted that it did, to institute an inquiry into its causes. He thought he had stated briefly, be could wish hi had done so more impressively, the several causes which induced him to pleas upon their lordship for an inquiry Into the interval state of the country. He would not occupy more of their lordships time at present, but be would reserve to himself the privilege of re.' plying to any observations which might be made. lie had done his duty, and he left it to their lordships' to do theirs, and he • *led upon' them to do so, as they would answer to their consciences, and, perhaps, to their country. The noble lord coocladgd by moving, "That the house should resolve. itself into a committee of the whole house to take Into consideration the Internal state of the country." to nab to u t n tbs "D s zodsb ises, llll Ef i d tb; perhapo i N n o the ble ° Sar an PP°Bl l, un l t po im fee pu l w i t: hi rt tai l Iltaks:treanantodhaperear... tainly I am under no obligation to be the first to offer any remarks in opposition to this Committee, as that would rather be expected to be the part of some member of the Government. If I had con sulted my own ease, I should have abstained from the coma which I am pursuing ; but if, before the house entered on the considers. tion of this measure, I felt considerable doubt u to the propriety of concurring in the proposition of the Noble Earl, I must confess that the speech we have Just heard has most materially confirmed that. resolution. I must confess, also, that I did not at all expect that the Noble Earl would have confined himself on this occasion I to the description of a state of things which no one can attempt to deny-(hear, hear,)—l mean the general distress which prevails in the country, and the duty which lies on your Lordships to do the best in your power to alleviate and relieve that distress.— (hear, hear.) I expected that he would have proceeded to state something as to the causes which, in his view, had produced that distress, and something of the notions which he entertains as to the practibility of its remedy.—(bear, hear.) Ido not say that it was incumbent on any individual to submit to your lordships a spe. cific remedy ; but when the noble earl has proposed a course of pro ceedings so inconvenient in itself, and so in adequate to effect that discuaion—superficial as the noble earl makes it out to be—l think that, before we consent to such an inquiry, we have a right to know what it is we are about to inquire about. In the course of his speech, the noble earl has taken occasion to treat with contempt the principle of select committees, and has particularly noticed one which is now sitting. Earl STANHOPE.—I beg pardon. T particularly said, that for such ightan inquiry as that into the affairs of India, a select committee m do. Viscount GODERIC : Just so; but then the noble earl pro ceeded to describe the proceedings of such a committee in a some what contemptuous style ; and though he has complained that the conduct of this house is not such as to command the respect of the country, I must say that the noble earl's own description is not cal culated to raise us in the estimation of the public. It, however, Strikes me that it would be easy to describe the proceedings of a committee of the whole house in terms as ludicrous as those which have fallen from the noble earl with respect to a select committee. (Hem, hear.) It has not been my fortune, since I have been a member of this house, to attend a committee of the whole house on any important subset • but do not the King's mi. nisters sit,in a committee of the ;hole house ? Are not the follow. era of government on the same benches, then, which they always occupy ? In short, I have heard no objection &Ashen a select cont. mittee which may not,be urged with ten times the force against the plan proposed by the noble earl. Surely, then, no imputation of want of feeling is to be brought against any one for objecting to the mode of proceeding proposed by the noble earl. According to my view of the case, it has one remarkable objection. He tells you that a select committee would go into minuteness of detail, out that a committee of the whole house would only look at the general re: sult. But if the people of England are to be satisfied with such a superficial inquiry, little do we understand either of their inte. rests or their feelings. (Hear, hear.) When the noble earl says that if we refuse this inquiry, the people of England will conclude that we reject their prayer, and that we have shut our eyes, our ears, and our hearts to their sufferings. I say that such is an unjust imputation ; and I shall endeavour, before I alt down, to show that although 1 dissent from many of the noble earl's doctrines on this subject, 1 do not believe that the parliament is incapable of effect ing a direct and immediate relief to the people, and of laying a foundation of great and permanent good to the interest of the country. In saying this, lam not arrogating to myself the merit of any new discovery or plan ; but I think that I may be able to point out a mode by which immediate relief could be afforded and a foundation laid for great permanent advantages hereafter. I am willing to admit that my views on this subject may be wrong, and that I may be too sanguine in what I am looking forward to ; but at least I have a right to claim for myself and for Parlia ment an exemption from that censure and reproach which the noble Earl has cast upon us ; aid I am ready to place myself at the bar, not only of this house, but of the country, for an squittal to the charge of having been neglectful of the interests of the country. I admit that the distress of the country is ge. weal; I admits that it is more severe in some respects than at any former period (hear, hear !); hod when I reflect on one circum. stance to which the Noble Earl his alluded—the exemplary pa. tience and resignation with which the people have borne this.— I know not what feelings can have possession of a nun's mind, if he does not feel it to be a duty.—outweighing and transcen. dant to all others—to apply his best and most earnest energies to their relief. But there are considerations out of which there may arise the possibility of applying some degree of alleviation to this. And first as to its causes. It is not my intention to fatigue your lordships by entering into any learned diammadons on the infinite variety of causes which may have tended to cripple the industry of the country , and to have indicted poverty and wretchedness on its people. There are some of them, no doubt, beyond the reach, as die speech from the throne expres sed it, of legislative interference. (Hear ' hear.) This country, !for the last twenty - five years, has been in q moat singularly artificial state; and indeed every 'country, during the same period, has been more or less in the sante state. It was totally impossible, therefore, when that artificial state ceased, that all the interests of the country should not partake of the revulsion which was the consequence; and I believe that this country, having been affected more than any other by those artificial circumstances, has felt this revulsion the most severely.— , One of the consequences thus produced was, that the country na longer enjoyed those high prices, of which so many appeared to be enamoured, and which appeared to be in great favour with the noble earl. But, besides this, there were two other causes—the state of the currency, and the state of the taxation; and I cannot but think that it is possible for parliament to apply—not perhaps an in. stantaneous—but at all events amataial relief. First, then, as to the currency. Though I never entertained a doubt that the safety of the country depended on the restoration of the metallic cur. rency. I never for a moment concealed flora myself that such a course would be accompanied with great pressure upon the people. 1 always looked upon it as chasing the lesser evil rather than the greater. But there are some circumstances connected with the currency which ought to lead us to conclude that it is not yet in the state in which it ought to be. I allude to the state of the currency, exclusive of the paper of the Bank of Engin& The noble duke, the other night, stated that the amount of the currency now in circulation was equal to what it had been at any .former period. it may or may not be so. But it ap ' pears to me to be difficult to come at any positive conclusion on the subject. But, at all events, I think that this maths does not depen d on the actual quantity of the circulation, but on a great variety of other considerations owingto a change in which the circa , lotion, which was at one time too little, may at another time be too much. In the statement on the currency made by the noble duke the other night, I think he counted one portion of it twice over ; I that is to sty, I think, when he mentioned twenty-eight millions of I gold, he did not apprehend that a certain portion of that must be in the coffers of the Bank of England. - - The Duke of WELLINGTON : My statement of the amount was independeat of what was retained by the bank. Viscount tiODERICH-1 am glad to hear that: for at then have to give the Bank credit for a more judicious management. than I otherwise think they would have deserved. But, setting aside that part of the question, 1 think that the currency is not only in sufficient, but that it is unnecessarily low—(hear), and that It might be made higher without the slightest danger to the country— (hear). I know no criterion by which we are so well to judge of the proper amount of the circulation as by the state of our foreign eichanges. Poe the last 18 months those foreign exchanges bate been highly in favour of this country, and till the Ontrencp shell be below 'par, it appears to me that the cur. racy cannot be too full. The maxim we should adopt on this had ought to be, to keep it, ‘, without o'erflowing, full." and I thick that it is desirable to have in this country as lar it a supply as way be consistent with this principle . The view which I take of the distresses of the country leads me, I costae, to the *pi nion Met those distresses are :in part to be attributed to the imper fect system of banking which prevails out of the metropolis. In my judgment, the issues of the country bankers are not regulated by those principles which are likely to prove advantagems to themselves or beneficial to the country. When times of difficulty arrive, the issuers of the country papa immediately take alarm, and contract their circulation with a timidity unfounded and ruinous; and when die peuepeets of the commercial world' undergo_ a change, they immediately begin to issue oa a scale so extended, well deserving to be described as raph. If lam asked what remedy I would recommend for this evil, it is this —give increased facility to the establiehment of banks. It must, of couree, be in the recol. lection of your lordships, that after the panic in the year 1826 a panic. the grounds of which were much exaggerated, and the effects not fairly represented—l say, my lords, that after that panic, the 4WO measures of his Majesty ' s gone. went—w.th which I was then connected—proposed to parliament were, firs'. an curlier suppression of the one pound notes than had been Mrby law ; the second was en act for flats ing the for of new banks, under the regulations and principles of joint stock companies. Previous to that dine the law had tastrieted the number of partners engaged in private banking concerns to six.; but Lord Liverpool, - who had well considered the subjtct, and who, above most men, was well qualified to furni:a . sound judgment upon questions of that nature, and the decision at which he arrived was to recommend to your Lordship', u it was mine to recommend to the other House of Parliamere, a bill for facilitating the establishment of Country Banks upun the principle of Joint Stock Companies. The measure was nrch• eerily imperfect. and for the simple ,rsasoo, that we e,.uld not induce the Bank of England to rela their rivileges to the titt• pee ,that was necessary for giving a fair opportunity for trial which I to the plan proposed by iovernment at the period to advert. dace then we have been brought within three yeah of the period when the Bak Charter will expire. Now, theutdi nothing can be further from my mind than pretending lam_ ;, and rd to ; Parka- eh the myself for an arrests is ge. at any • ircum. chi uus-- man's pies to re may to this. le your infinite tatry of on its telt, as lerenee. re, has every less in in that uld not believe y those atry d to be e noble state of it think an in. , then, that the lie eur. such a people. ian the ith the Not yet tate of Igloo& rant of nen at it ap. elusion er does a great circa. be too le duke Over ; lions Ot .t be in unount • I then gement. g aside only in. that It amp— Jag, of foreign :haulms ill the he cur. on this full." tar,* a ebb* I he opi. Inver. In my aced by melees me, the :ontract d when theY serving would ility to • e fecal. 1826 Ind de ur that t—w:th e, firs'. id boa the &l- ipid; of ter had hankin.• rred th e term> decirion •., cs it & bill run the aces. uld not the et.. for trial which I years of though ling to _