Star. — London, England, 1813-02-26 00:00:00

Shall have free exercise of their respective rt with full liberty to build churches, erect a found schools, form - church.yards, &c. without climent." So much for religious toleration' for civil qualification. The edicts proceed tt. that wtberpublic ehargeitioffices, and honours, a. Or low, great-or small, sball be given to native Hui, stirians who deserve well of their country, and who are winos:ern to bold them, without any regard their religious persuarion.—(ilear, ljear. ) l--This the declaration of a Popish diet. This proceeds from one of those nations which, according to the Anti. Catholics, has no idea of toleration, as compared witkl this country ? This Catholic Government gives nif , , only toleration, but qualification, and the Catholie Church acquiesces in the gift. We give toleration, without qualification; and we accosopany that tole ration with pains and penalties. " The Anti-Catholic Petitions require that those - pailis stAti penalties should be continued. The Petitioners seem totally ignorant of the real state of things. 'They declare generally (Mayors „and Corpmauons), that the principles of the Catholics are the same as they were at the worst of times. They state, and they state it after the de molition of the Vatican,—after the ptostration of the Inquisition—ifter the fall of the Pope, that that re ligious toleration, and that civil qualification, ought not to be granted, which is allowed in every great country in Europe, England excepted. They as sume that to be true in argument which is false to fact. They quote Catholic writers, who have' said that the Fathers and they - hold the same opinions; And on this the Anti-Catholics fond a monstrous 13th-statement. Sir, the Catholics of the present day have evinced their principles by their oaths. They have abjurea every criminal tenet attributed to theit ancestors. In taking an oath framed by a Proves , cant, enacted by a Protestapt 'Parliament, and going into the minutia of rejection, the Catholics have ac quitted themselves by a solemn obligation of the , principles formerly imputed to them. • They, never iheless, maintain, that there is no difference o$ opinion between them and their ancestors because they Maintain, that their ancestors were charged unjustly with entertaining criminal opinions. This defence of their ancestors has been converted into a crimination of themselves; and they are suspected of maintain ' itig doctrines, an adherence to which they deny on oath It is said, by the Anti-Catholics, that the Catholics have been, and are, always the same. The Catholics allow that a true Catholic was" and is al., mays the same ; but they add, that a criminal Ca tholic is not a true one—(Hear, hear, hear.)--" But the Catholics are enemies to the Church of England." Believe me, Sir, it is a very hasty and imprudent as sertion ; it is one calculated to make the Catholics that which they are not—enemies to the Chureh of England. If it proceeded from high authority, it Might be seriously dangerous: but coming as it does from persons, however respectable, whose opinions are not entitled to very serious consideration t it may be comparatively innoxious. Sir, why should the Catholics be enemies to the Church of England ? If the endeavours of the. Catholic to obtain his civil li berties be opposed by the Church of England, then it is not the catholic that is the enemy of the Church of England, but the Church of England that is the enemy of the Catholic. What is it, Sir, that is to make the Catholic an energy to the Church of Eng land ? Is it his dextrines ? Is it the doctrine of pe name, of absolution; of extreme unction t The affir mative would subject the affirmer to the most just ridicule and scorn. SJ much tot the hostility of the Catholics to the Church ! " But," it is said further, the Catholics are enemies to the State."—[Some lion. Members on the other side of the House ob. .seved that they were se 44 in principle.")—ln prin ciple! Sir, 1 deny it. 'Hew are principles to be ascer tained but by actions ? If they are enemies to the State, let us go into the Committee; and let these who alledge that the Catholics are enemies to the State, support their allegations by evidence. If they plead the Canons of the Council of Lateran, of Con stance, of Trent, I will produce authorityof a much higher flescription • I will adduce the testimony of the Parliament of le United Empire; I will quote the thanks of that Parliament unanimously voted to armies, of which a large component part was Cathq lie, for the most important services rendered to the State— (Hear.)—Sir, the opponents of the Catholics • go on to assert, that they are enemies to liberty.— What 1 the authors of Magna Charta enemies to liberty I and have the Catholics shewn no other at tachment to liberty ? I say, that the very declara tion of rights, which, on the motion of the Right. Hon. Gentleman opposite, was read by the Clerk, sufficiently shews the love of the Catholic to liberty. For what does that declaration ? It does not enact new laws, but it reaffirms those which the declarers found already established ; and by whom were they established ? who were their authors ? The Catholics, those alleged enemies of the Church, those alleged ene mies of the State, those enemies of liberty ! (Hear.) Why did the Legislature, at the period of the Revo. 'titian, go further than to declare the law? Because the Roman Catholics had not only been friendly to.liber ty, but had so established the principles of liberty by statute, that the wisdom of the Reformers . Tould not 'need their distinct enactments. Sir, what is the amount of the charge now preferred against the Ca , tholics ? That they are governed and swayed by all those canons which, they contend have been grossly misinterpreted ; but which, however interpreted, they have forsworn. They are accused of maintaining the deposing power of the Pope—of cherishing regi cidal principles—and of asserting the right of perju ry. On these assumptions, and in tins enlightened age, the Catholic is not only not admitted to the con stitution, but formally excluded from it. Sir, I defy those who are hostile to Catholic concession to sup port their positions by any thing but by these canons, nugatory, contemptible, obsolete, and denied , by the Catholics themselves. What were the answers made by the universities of Salamanca, Paris, Alcala, Lou wine, pouay, and St. Omen's, to the questions put to them ? They were asked, whether the Pope had a deposing power, and whether it was a tenet of the Catholic religion, to hold no faith with heretics Sir, on the best authorities, I can assert that those I learned bodies were disposed not to deny but to ridi cule the opinions imputed to them—net to reject but I to scorn them. They, however, answered, that the Pope had no such depcsing rower, and that as to the supposition that theCath.)lics would keep no faith with 1 ProaleitaiitS l they were almost enhanced to say any 'der whether ap sot • toei ow* toast thik •on Abe die part i thit s..snd you enumerate the removal of the di.. Bute great portion 'Mind have gotseen those _ - Pope to depose royal authority, and the consequent evils. They have petitioned in favour of the Catho gicidal disposition of the Catholimand the tenet that lice. I have a book filled with - their saw in. my no faith is to be kept with heretics. The work I al- pocket. I know that it will be said again, that the laded to, Si!, is called Traesatus de Ecdrsia, and with Catholics insist on condition,. I won't take this ar the permission of the House I will read several pas- gument—you, the ratliament, area° frame your gill sagest to shew how baseless their assertions are.— and to propose your conditioits—she Catholics doq't [The Right Hen. Gentleman here read some ex. see what security they ought to give—they say that tracts from the book in question. They stated, that they have already .giten every security, though a Christ had not granted St. Peter direct or indirect synod of their Bishops has declared that they have power over the temporal contents of kingdoms: that no nidisposition to every mode of conciliation. We by the Kings and E mperors of States gone, the an. seek for nothing,' say they, but the integrity of the preme temporal establishment of them ought to be Rcanan Catholic Church,' but every thing whichdoes held f that the declarations of Pontiffs were not to be not trench on the security of their Church, or which considered as infallible, .or as points of fOith which it is necessary for you, theyare ready to grant you. was necessary to salvation to believe.] Here then,, They are against making their liberty a conditional Sir, is a book which has been traduCed as a conceit- boon I they don't see the necessity of what you de tration of evils; and it appears that it enjoins princi- ittand, but they will give you every security you pies directly the reverse of those which have been as- think necessary, provided it does not derogate from Bribed to it. When such are the misrepresentations the rights of their Church. Then,- I say, the privi that are circulated, the result is not surprising. But leges of the Catholics and the rights of the Protes there is another Work of'higber authority to which I' tent Church are perfectly coasistent, and Parliament wish to refer—l mean the common rmyerdsook of should find the means of reconciling them. Give me the Catholics. [The Right Hon. Gentleman here leave to say, as to the Anti-Catbolic Petitioners, that quoted several passages froM the Catholic Prayer- many of them do not profess themselves hostile to the book ; the tenor of which was. to declareahat no principle, but anxious about the mode of extending General Council, much less a Papal Coasistory, had those rights claimed by the Catholics. They do not the power of deposing Sovereigns, or absolving sub- say exclude the Catholic*, but don't admit the Ca jects from their allegiance ; that the Pope had no att. *holies unless you take care of our religion.' Ido thority, direct or indirect, over temporal affairs; that not nay that I am obliged to agree that the Church notwithstanding l imy Papal interference, all Catholic of England is an enemy to the liberty of the Catho subjects were bound to defend their King and coun• lice—still less that the people of England are enemies try, at the hazard of their lives and fortunes, even to their liberty—so far from it, that I would little against the Pope himself; should he invade . their fear to repose the question on their good sense country ; and that the alleged duty of Catholic sub- and sober integrity. I do believe, that it they be jects to•murder their Princes, if excommunicated for lieved their religion was safe, they would be among heresy, was impious and execrable, being contrary to the, warmest friends of the Catholics. The only all the known laws of GOD and nature.] I have an. point then is the security of the Protestant'Church, other instance, with which I shall beg leave to trots 4 and for that they have pointed out the means— ble the Hoise, and which would go to complete the they have no right to say that they are the only' chain of proofs that thew the Catholics are not with. judges of the conditions to be imposed, or who are out principles of allegiance, and which would acquit to tell you that you can only save the Church of Eng them of every chirge and imputation on theirloyaitys land by denying their prayers to the Catholics of It was the oath taken by the Catholics, according to Ireland. You shall have declared, in the strongest the s3d of the King, in Ireland, after the oath of alle. manner, all the securities you can ask ; you shall glance. [Here the Right Hon. Gentleman read the have the Crown and its Succession confirmed, as fun oath, by which theCitholic promises and swears to be damental, unalienable, and sacred ; you shall have faithful, and to bear true allegiance to the King, his the Episcopal Church of England, Ireland, and Scot heirs, and successors, and to defend him against all land, as established by law. Some of the petitioners conspiracies against his person, Crown and dignity— against - the Catholics desire the separation to be eter ' to maintain and defend the succession of the crown, nal ; I would secure the Church and the State by as established by the Act - of Limitation—and further identification ; they would do it by patronage—l by rejects and detests'as impious thn doctrine of its be- union. I would effect every object by bringing in a • ing lawful to destroy or Murder, unde r t h e p retext Bill, w hi c h s h ou ld con tain sue!. provisions as would of the extirpation of heresy—and denies that any guard the rights of the Church, and,the Colleges and such act can be justified under the pretext of good, Corporations ; and I would leave other provisions to ' or of obedience to ecclesiastical power. The oath be filled up by others in the Committee, provided further denies the infallibility of the Pope in his per- they were not filled up in such a manner as to qua sonal capacity, or his power to forgive any sin by may, or rather to neutralise, the liberty you were con his mere will, without the necessary condition, of ceding, or to displace the gift you were bestowing.— contrition and repentance; and it concludes with say. Such a measure I think practicable, and I know it to ing, that the Catholics will not exercise any privi. be desirable. The preamble I would make a cove , lege that may be granted them to disturb or weaken nant of concord, in which I would urge the necessity the Protestant Government, as by law established.] of putting an end to all animosities, national and re " Now," continued Mr. Grattan, I ask what fur- ligious. The two islands have been for two cen ther answer you require to the charges urged against turies in a state of political contest—l would put an the Catholics ? 'nitre is a further—an indictment or information—a criminal proceeding is the on ly an end to it—l would have the liberty of the press un . restrained in every thing but one—the people should swer. The petitioners against the Catholics may say not abuse one another out of their allegiance. (Hear, what they choose as to their good intentions, but hear.) They have the French and the Dutch to with respect to the pamphlets which charge them with quarrel with abroad, and they may quarrel with Ml murder and treason as their creed, they must charm sisters at home, or if they do not like that, they may them with perjury also. If such a pamphlet was attack the opposition. (A laugh.) But they should written against my Lord Fingal or Sir Thomas Bel- never wage war against each other. (Hear, hear.) lew, the printer would say in vain that he did not It is a system that you cannot put an end to too soon mean such an imputation. Suppose "'Lord Fingal ...you are one people—you have but one interest— should indict the author, would he be suffered to pro./ the outcry which is raised among you, is neither the duce the canons in his defence ? W ou ld m y L or d voice of r eligi on , nor the voice of nature, and it can- Ellenborough or my Lord Kenyon, s u ffer him to ex: not be appeas ed too soon. I would therefore pro tenuate the offence, by citing the decrees of the Coun- pose as a first step, that the House should go into a ell of Constance or the Council of Trent ? No 1 But Committee on the Catholic Claims, agreeably to the the author might urge in his defence, that lie had no Resolution of the last Parliament, and I will note particular meaning injurious to Lord Fingal or Sir read the Resolution which I should bring forward in Thomas Bellew, but only to four millions of his Ma- the Committee as the foundation of a 13i11." The jesty's Catholic subjects. (Hear, hear.) But there Right Honourable Gentleman then read the Resolu is another refutation of su c h a charge against the tion, to the following effect :—o That with a view to Catholics—the impossibility of its truth; it amounts' such an adjustment as may be conclusive for the. to such a pitch of moral turpitude, as would burst peace, streugth, and security of Om English Consti asunder the bonds of civil and social intercourse; it tution, and the ultimate concord of the British Em would be a. dissolution of the elements of society, pire, it is highly advisable to provide for the remo and of the elastic principle which binds man to man. val of the civil and military disqualifications under It is not merely unfounded, but monstrous; it is not which his Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects at pre in the nature of man, but in the nature of sects, sent labour, making full provision, at the same time, which, when they contend for power, charge each for the maintenanceand security of the Protestant other with what they know to be false. But there is cession to the Crown, according to the Act of Limi another argument which 1 hope the Learned Divines tenons, and for preserving inviolable the Protestant will excuse me for adverting to. It is that the Chris- ,Episcopal Church of Great Britain and Ireland and tian religion or its Clergy are such as to be so des- the Church of Scotland, their doctrines. discipline, cribed. I will see the tenets of the petitioners against and government, as by law established." I now the Catholics. I will first examine them when they move that the Resolution of last Session be read.— pray, and then when they petition. When they pray (Hear, hear.) The Resolution was then read, and they address the DEITY as a God of mercy and base- being put from the Chair, licence, who sent his Son on earth to spread religion Mr. I'OMLINE rose, and, in a maiden speech, and peace and love amongst mankind. When they opposed the motion. The subject was one of the petition they suppose that the DEITY has abandoned greatest magnitude, and demanded the most serious his own revelations ; that the human species are su n k and ample consideration ' divested of all the violence in barbarism; that Christians a re b ec o me monsters , o f zea l on one s id e , an d all feelings of animosity on and that the DEITY, driven from other nations in the other. The name of Mr. Pitt had been fre- Europe, is only preserved by the English Divines, quently brought forward by the advocates of the , the Colleges, and Corporations. This doctrine goes measure, to sanction their opinions ; but lie denied to establish an exclusive right to power and profit, that Mr. Pitt bad ever made up his mind upon the and whey eviscerated, is nothing more than a contest subject, or had ever digested any plan to be brought for those objects. I beg to be understood as speak_ forward as final ;he had also avoided any_discussion ing with the utmost respect for those Divines who ' and resumed office upon a pledge never to press the ; have petitioned against the Catholics, b ut I must ag it a ti on o f t h e measure. The.advocates of an un- take some liberty with their arguments. I do not conditional repeal could not therefore, he contended, dispute the purity of th eir mot ives , I on l y quarre l s h e l ter t h emse l ves under the authority of Mr. Pitt. ' with the nature of their opinions, and I hope that The situation of the Catholics was dwelt upon, as if the time is not far distant, when I shall see the divi. it really were a subject of commiseration ' • an appeal don of sects lost in the union o f p r i nc i p l es , an d b e- was ma d e lo t h e i r humanity, as if they were groan-' hold every denomination acti ng as one peop l e i n one l og un d er b ondage and oppression ; but their miseries , common cause. For what is it, that you would ex- existed only in . the imaginatio n o f the eloquent ora- I dfell ow - subjects a great portion of you r from the tor who de sc ribed them. The Catholics enjoyed the I participation of civil rights ? They are traitors and protection of the same laws—their liberties and their murderers according to the tene t s they profess. Her e properti es were as sacredlyguarded a s those of the then, is a proposition by which you w o uld exclude -Protestants. They had aCollege maintained at the ' one fifth of your population from the benefits of th e public ex e ' nc *for instructing their youth in their Constitution, in order to drive them into thos e cr i mes own doctrines a n d tenets—they we re a d m i tte d to a with which you chars.. them. If you g o on , you participation of political power at elections—and w ---... . -- • , . ....' . .- . \ ot=trias thhig on the subject.. $14 .- it-look itas f , • • t. ,' -I; ..... .. . . Ink CoOt 'Pt 0 religions, IP. Pil by the uncle* atisfshooth I . .. I '`' . . l- '. • .... ' ~ t ParlinsW will `rte'` •I. , Tr , steeples) 4addocettii decisive evisreoce not only ot4K,_ 4,, • •I ;, 5, .._ 4 of concord tiliey aoi out impe4 ; principle* of the Catholics, but ai a prof . ro"- 1 i • -•• , t discord. Yeti say 6 n I Now mitsal'principles which the posterity of the ' . -PIN .. are legitimate objection , d to say, Catholics ,were doomed to imbibe by its being ret►-. the evils that may atise front t ors, high dered available to the pp.rpose of their education.— qualification of the Catholics. tive Hun- These criminal principles are the authority of the of •Protestants of 'lreland and who Pope to depose royal authority, and the consequent re. evils. They hove petitioned ii. though the higher ranks Were efcittaed from Weld places of power and trust, the whole Mass of the Catholics was amply protected. It had been oft.* said, that offices were intended for the benefit of the • Public and not of the individual, and if it was deter. mined by the majority that certain qualifications were necessary for those offices, those who were ez. . eluded had no right to complain r they artg - ht espett protection, but they had no right to confidonat—. As then no specific object had been brought forward, he could not see what advantage would result front entering into new inquiries on the subject of the dis abling Statutes. Parliament had, in fact, doting the last twenty years, been continually examining them. The Unconditional repeal however now de mended. it had never been in the coa , ornplation of the Legislature to concede.. The declarations •aed oaths which had been repreUnted as constituting such powerful • titles to unlimited and unqualifird concession, formed the ground, it should be realm. bered, of the valuable concessions and alterations which took place in 1793. Since that period, how ever, they had become mere imposing in their de mands, and finding themselves supported by men of great talents and distinction, extended their view; and asserted claims which were utterly inadmissible with reference to the security' of our own Chards, and the fundamental laws of the Protestant Esta blishment. He was himself far from being diem.' to ferment or encourage an intolerant disposition, but the toleration which he desired to see indnlged was, a toleration compatible with the stability of the Govermnent, and consistent with the principles which our ancestors had deemed essential to Li* Constitution. He called on the House to direct its attention to those principles, and to discard, on a question of this magnitude and importance, every personal interest and every party feeling. Sir ROBERT HERON expressed his wish to form a measure of the indulgence ot the House, by occupying but little of its cynic . The Hon. Ge ntle. man who preceded him, however little disposed to appreciate highly the name ot Mr. Windham, had yet acknowledged the authority of Mr. Pitt, and that he had surrendered office because he found him. self unable to adopt those measures, with regard to the Catholics, which he deemed indispensable to the interests _of the Empire. Among the may charges gratuitously made, and as gratuitously re. ceived against the Catholics, it was asserted, they were the enemies of liberty. Where, however, was he to seek for the evidence of their hostility to ra tional freedom ? The Right Hon. Gentleman who made the motion, and had that night enlightened the House not less with the force of his reasoning than the brilliancy of his eloquence, bad reminded theta of Runnymede ; and he would likewise venture to say, that even at the period of the Revolution, it was not a religious contest, but a struggle of men at tached to an heteditary Sovereign mingled with Pro testants, and even conducted by a Proteetant leader. (Year, hear.) Had James 11. evinced cammon con. rage or ordinary talents, after his departure from London, he believed that the result would have been widely different, and that the Prince of Orange would have been wellsa . tisfied to regain the. shores of Hol land in safety. That Revolution was accomplished. not by the universal consent or insurrection of the people, but by the united exertions of a.certain num ber of patriotic Nobles, acting upon public princi ples, and a large ao4, provident policy. When was it, as had been asserted, that the Catholics fir* felt the rigours and jealbusi of the English Government Not surely in the times of Catholic sovereigns, nor is the reign of that glorious Princess, Queen Elizabitb, whose policy succeeding ages had accorded in ad miring. Unless then some more • intimate connexion could be diesels, than that implied in vague and ge neral accusation, he should continue to believe, that there was no necessary affinity whatever between des potism and the Roman Catholic faith. Did not the Honourable Gentleman who spoke before him know that the Rebellion in Ireland was not a religiouS war fare !—(Hear, hear.) Was he not aware that it was the resistance of a conquered country, and that the conflict was between the natives and those who were • designated the Orange Party t Were.not the princi pal leaders of that Rebellion themselves Protestants t (Hear, Hear.) It was, he feared, too true, that the people of England were in general but too ready to listen to any alarm, however visionary, that was pro pagated in respect to the safety of their Church. The influence of the Papal See had expired in Italy, its • temporal existed no where, and Popedom had ceased to be formidable in all -countries except the British dominions—(Hear, Heir.) Here, in this Tmpire such was the disaffection of the people—such th; weakness of the Government,such.the cowardice of the troops—such the Inefficiency of the navy, that, notwithstanding its inselar situation, it was sot to be defended against that powerful Potentate, the Pope— (Hear, hear.) These idle fears had been long dying away ; although he believed that considerable efforts had been recently made to revive them. But if the Petitions were numerous, there were, he had re marked, but few of those which were entitled to the most weight and the highest consideration—he meant those of the- freeholders of counties called together at public meetings, and joining in free dis cussion —(Hear, hear, hear.)—Of this description he knew not what might have come from Ireland and Scotland, but in England there Was not more than five or six, and those not hostile to the genera principle of concession. lie held in his hand a work published with the avowed object of influencing and invigorating the opposition to thest. claims, and pur porting to be the production of a society which had assumed to itself the lofty title of the Protestant Union.—(Hear, hear.) —lt was with concern that he saw to it the name of an individual respectable and amiable in all the relations of life, but, as he con ceived, most mistaken on this subject. This work contained qJeries addressed to the Catholics, but to these queries no answers were desired. Wisely did its author abstain from such an invitation, for the work had roduced its effect in influencing the pre. sent discussion, and it came precisely at a time when it was impossible that any answer to it could have been received. • The first meeting of this society took place on the 12th of February, and then an address was resolved to the 'People of England, graciously promising its protection, and undertaking to enlight en their minds, -and to inform them and that donee of course, in the numberof all those points and dog mas of the ltomish Church, with respect to which they must otherwise have been left in such miserable