Star. — London, England, 1820-06-08 00:00:00

• • Il k ~ ~~. , x. • N....A. zwc,,,, ' - • Workinsti.c county of Cumberland, against any alt A te • on 'timber. •‘••• fall 'll.!..byaught up a Petition from the oc cupier; of.tand in the County of Nottingham, t omplainlog of Dint...ie.—Laid on the table. Dir.S. WORTLEY presented Petitions from Messrs. Horne, Floa4 - and T psnb 2 Collators, MIAMI In 1144 And from. their town agent in London, Mr. Rouser, stating that they heard with surprise, that the legal proceedings which they had taken.atiinit the Warden of the Fleet Winn, ter 01,-OttZtint the enlargement of Robert' Christie Burton, Esq. was a breach of privilege. They declared their total ignorance of the effect of the proceedings they had commenced; that they bad acted under the direction of Counsel; that they had forthwith ran quished the proceedings against the Warden of the Fleet; and that they were ready to pay all expensos to Which the said V arden bad been put in the matter. The lion. Member bore testimony to the good charactet of the Petitioners. • Sir J. GRAHAM also bory testimony to the respectable character of one of the Petitioners. Mr. W. WY NW, in consequence of what has passed, then moved, that in consideration of the Petitioners having acknow ledged their offence, and espreued their contrition for what they had done, this Meuse is content to proceed no farther upon the Petition complaining of a breach of the privilege of that House. —Agreed to. The order for the attendance of the Petitioners on that House was then discharged. Mr. DA LY postponed his notice respecting the state of Ire- I sad to this day se'nnight. Mr. C. CALVERT obtained leave to bring in a Bill to con tinue the 50th of George 111. C. 36. for the regulation of the Baking Trade for one year. Sir GEORGE COCKBURN brought in a Bill to regulate the state of his Majesty's Royal Marines while on shore.—Read the first time. Sis J. STEWART obtained leave to bring in a• Bill to repeal so much of the 39th of the King (which was an Act to limit the operation of certain Acts relating to the imposition of Fines en Town Lands, &c.) as required Grand Juries to levy half the expenses on Town Lands, arc. General HART, in supporting the motion, declared he would r.,tier prefer placing 'relate under the operation of Martial Law, than under the present system of rapine and plynder that *as perpetrated by Excise Officers. The mode adopted - in fkistlsod was far less oppressive, and produced double the Re- Tenet of that in 'rebind. Lard MOUNTCHARLES support ea the motion likewise. Mr. HUME moved for Returns of the whole Establishment of the Storekeeper-Genial, abroad and at home, to the Ist of Na,y, 1820, including 'Conductors, Stations, a descr_iption IN the reraosis employed, the Rates of ray, and the Total of the whole, and also of the Contracts merle by the Commissariat Department for Military Stores.—Ordered. Mr. HUME then.moved far a 'temp.' the number of Men and Officers of his Majesty's 9$ Regimes*, in 1819. It the time of their embarkation, and that of, their landing in the West In dies, and of the number of deaths' on their passage, and since their 'adding, to the Ist of December 1a5t.....-Ontand. The ATTORNEY•GENERAL:put off his modalr respect. log the Courts of Justice in Westminster Hall, to this day. Six P. BUKDETT postponed his modem on the Manchester affair. to ThursdaY the end instant. The Glass Bill passed through a Committee. The Customs Duties Regulation Bill was ordered to be read ' thethird time on Friday. The Report on the Dublin Foundling Hospital Bill, as also this on the Dublin House of Industry MU, were brought up. sad the Amendments having been agreed to. was ordered to be road the third time on Friday. MESSAGE FROM THE QUEEN. At a quarter past five o'clock, the House being crowded to excess, Mr.BROUGHAM rose in his place and said, that I .he was commanded by the Queen to lay before the Douse of Commons a Message, of which the follow ing is a copy. The Honourable and Learned Gentle sßau then read her Majesty's Message, as follows : the Qum thinks it necessary to inform the House of CUMmons, that she has been induced to return to, England, in mmorglance of the measures pursued against her' honour and kg peace, for same time by secret agents abroad, and WAY .sanctisised by the conduct of the Government at heist. In Adopting this course, her Mummy has bad no other purpose whatsoever but the defence of her character, and the mainte.. name of those just rights which have devolved upon her by the death of that revered Monarch, In whose high honour and VD staben affection she had always found her surest support. " Upon her arrival, the tterax is surprised to find that a alreasse has been sent down to Parliament, requiring its at. minim 10 written documents, and she learns with still putter Ascablement, that there is an intention of proposing that these *mid be referred to a Secret Committee. It is this Aar fourteen ,years since the first charges were brought for ward against her Manny. Then, and upon every occasion during that Wog period, she has shewn the utmost readiness to meet lurr accusers, and to court the fullest inquiry Wm her con. duet. She now also desires an open investigation, in which she may see both the chargeihnd the witnesses against her, a privi lege not denied to the meanest subject of the Realm. In the face of the Sovereign, the Parliament, and the-Country, she so lemnly protests against the formation of a Secret Tribunal to ecamine documents privately prepared by her adversaries, as a • proceeding unknown to the law of the land, and a flagrant vio lation of all the principles of justice. She relies with full con fidence upon the integrity of the House of Commons for defeat ing the only attempt she has any reason to fear. " The Quc cannot forbear to add, that even before any proceedings were resolved upon, she has been treated in a manner too well calculated to prejudge her ease. The omission of her name in the Liturgy—the withholding the means of con. vermce usually afforded to all the branches of the Royal Family —the refusal even of an answer to her application. for a place of residence hi the Royal Mansions, and the studied slights both of English Ministers abroad, and of the Agents of all Foreign Powers over whom the English Government has any influence, must be viewed as measures designed to prejudiee the world against her, and could only • have been justified by trial and conviction." CONSIDERATION. OF THE KING'S MESSAGE. On the Motion of Lord CASTLEIMAGH, the order of tbe day for taking his Majesty's Message into con sideration, and the Message itself having been read, Lord CASTL?EREAGH rose.—ln calling the at tention of the Muse to the course of proceedings which he should propose to adopt, he trusted the House would feel as he did, the painful and delicate nature of the task imposed upon him. The present was one of the most distressing public questions ever agitated in Parliament.; and he assured the House, that if bee, AS not convinced that every effort had beets marie.twavert from Parliament the discharge of abi lk uriblise; duty, he should rise with a still hea vier.bout than pressed on him on the present occa sion. The usual course, wbeniver anyrecommenda tion bad been made by the other branches of the Le i s ippa, aad particularly from the 'Throne, was to tat e it iato the sarliest considerition; and after it had been fairly esansined, the House was led to pro. .nouice its judgment. and to enter into the discus. sisfa.af.the VilliQUS paints that might arise. He might ,say;sm.tbe authority of tbe Ho n. and toeataikdi G en . demon opposite, that great exaggeration and nume rous soisrepresenatioos had been practised on this miijt importarat question, mall& of the House. This would make it his duty to travelbeyond what might love otherwise appeared sufficient to offer to the . _!.L_ House in explialition of tee eirgeffittalum L a_ to its view.. Du he w011i1,A . 411. it Tee_ef • I terfere with dse.nound intietife elteliouse- w object would be to keep the • • :If Parliament t• a candid disposition to hear thetrtan of the subject:, a disposition which the tont assumed to-night was, he feared, calculated to destroy. He should now address himself to that part of the subject which arose out of a question put to him yesterday, and 'which led naturally to the object now undereonsi deration. He had been segarned to state What was the nature of the proceedings which his Majesty's Ministers should think it their duty to propose or re commend to the House on this important and deli cate question—(Hear, hear).--But he should protest, in limine, against any attempt which had been, or might be made, to represent Ministers or the Crown as coming down to the House with a tone of perse cution or prosecution! Ile appealed to the House whether any part of their conduct led to any such conclusions?—(Hear, hear). —He .also trusted, that when the House adverted to the terms of his Ma jesty's Message, it mould be of opinion that the com munication could net have beetrmade in more gra cious terms--(Lesighter en the Opposition sisie) r -or more calculated to lead to a temperate discussion! The King threw himself, as he was entitled by the Constitution to do, on the Great Council of the Na tion, in a question in which the interests of the coun try were as deeply involved at the honoUr of the Crown, and called upon them,to give him that ad vice which, under the circumstances in which his Majesty stood, they would think most proper. With respect' to the manner of taking the Message into consideration, he did.not suppose there could be any difference of opiuion. It was impossible, till it had been taken into consideration in the usual manner, that the House should be aware of the nature of the papers--( Hear, hear).—And be could assure the House, that nothing which might fall from him on this occasion,—no vote which he might ask, would .whin/ in the least • degree to fetter the Judgment of Parliament on the mode of proceeding, or bias it on the question, as to whether on the face ; of theinforma don there were grounds for any proceedings at all. (Hear, hear).—He Should, however, not act fairly to the Honourable and Learned Gentleman opposite, if he did not state, that there was in the papers com municated matter of the gravest nature, involving the interests of the country and the honour of the Crown. He considered the Message teat down by the Queen as recommended by her Legal Advisers; and vane: that Message spoke of secret communications, of charges resting on written documents—and to be de cided by some secret Tribunal, which the House was to be induced to adopt, through the prejudices ex cited against the Queen, be wished to relieve the Ho [pourable and Learned Gentleman from such a belief and apprehension. There was a great difference be tween a charge and actual guilt; but he would trans glen againsthis duty, if he attempted to describe in detail what the nature of those communications was. He should, however; assure the Honourable and Learned Gentleman, that with respect to the credi., bilk) , of the sources of information, it came from parties who were prepared to appear before any Tri bunal which might be appointed, with a view to cor roborate in the most solemn manner the truth of those depositions, which bad been given in the first instance in a written shape. IVith respect to the course of proceedings, it was astonishing that the . Queens able Legal Assistants should not have sug ted to her mind, that it could never - occur to a 'onal creature, to a Ministeraafthe Crown, accus tomed to the puiest administration of justice; that pry the slightest imputation of guilt could attach to the meanest subject of -the State, without his being allowed an investigation, which would afford him, together with that publicity necessary to the ends of justice, a full opportunity of cross-examining evi dence, rebutting testimony, and impeaching the cha tter of the witnesses, with a degree of liberty which her Majesty must share, not in precedence, but in common with every subject in the country— (Hear, /tel.—Without shaking the principles of !Mash jurisprudence, he apprehended that it was a most serious question for the Great Council of the Nation to decide on a course' of proceeding most likely to lead to the establishment of innocence and honour, if they could be asserted. His Majesty had called upon the House to adopt such a course as would best satisfy the ends of justice, and protect the honour of the Crown; be therefore should submit to the House that counsel proceedings taken by Par liament on so many occasions before—(Hear, hear/ from the Opposition).—No one could deplore more sincerely than he did the necessity of bringing so anxious a case before the House; but because it was a most anxious case, and one perhaps unprecedented, it did not follow that there was no mode to be adop ted on the occasion. After a Committee from their own [body had examined the information ' and brought to the view of Parliament all the precedents Which might, by analogy, guide their. proceedings, then alone could they be prepared to discuss whether the transaction should be pursued before the High Court of Parliament, or taken in the shape of a Bill before .the Legislature of the Country. He should therefore .feel it his duty, on every ground, to propose that the documents should be examined in a Cominittee of Secrecy. At the same time, he wished to guard [ against the idea that the decision of 'the Committee should in the least involve the merits of the case it eelf. It would nOmore do that than the decision if ,a Grand Jury!-(Hear, hear! from the Opposition)..— He repeated, that be did not consider that on the determination of the Committee the guilt or in of the Illustrious Individual should in the least depend. They would only examine the information, and report on its nature to the House, with their ob servations erith respect to precedents, and the course of proceedings to be adopted. It would at the same time be the duty of the House to guard that investi gation with all the most solemn forms of inquiry.— As to the mode of choosing the Committee , he had not been able to find that the House had proceeded to choose a Secret Committee, as in the case of Fez Thomas gumbold, where the inquiry incidentally led to aiarre, otherwise than by.ballot. But as he consi dered that the formation of the Committee would be an important feature in this transaction, be should new give, notice, that when the opportunity should have arrived, ha would. feel it his day to Oro- Pose itiabe House to isonsinete a Coinmittee, in order to allow greater facility for discussing the formation of that Committee, and that it should be conipgsed > ._ • . 14111414111 most capable ofadv6ing.the norm., iiilrpictk4eojted fie the Commutetas n ot r highly pa if it should report that there w ere no a l in tho th ug e h l ""i he adrai u tte die d th d at i t t h s e v: lffi uld t be s of the He as- : asuT-eid—rthsetoiloinnoustitrabutelealyaptLeocaereicfilendgGs e a n i ti a e l m l. H an o site, that he could net feel more relieved than he (Lord Castlereagh) should, if such should be the na ture of the Report of the Committee. If there were ' any' ndividuals who had a personal interest in find ing that the charge of guilt was unfounded, it wits, `those who stood in the situation of his Majesty's Mi-. ulster:. There had been no temptation for them to rush into this inquiry, either as Members of Parlia ment, or as Members of his Majesty's Councif. No thing could be decided in the Committee but the mode in which the question should come to Path*. silent, in order to place the Queen in a situation in which she could most effectually vindicate her cha racter. If be imagined that any other interest was ..to be referred to that Committee, there were no two in clivjduals whom he should feel more imperatively called upon' to nominate amongst its Members, than the two Honourable and Learned Gentlemen oppo site, the Legal Advisers of her Majesty. But, as he conceives the case to stand, • he should think it inex-' pedient to introduce them into the Committee ; for should the Committee report that there was nothing ,to impeach the conduct of the Illustrious Party whom they ;assist with their advice, and that there was no, occasion toproceed farther , t his happy decision would receive no Additional recommendation, either in the estimation' of her Majesty or in that of the Public, from having been come to in conjunction with the two Learned Gentlemen who held the important and honourable office of her Majesty's Legal Advisers.— On the other hand, if the Report stated, that there was enough of grave matter in the document laid be fore the Committee to advise some ulterior proceed ing, they would be placed in the most embarrassing dilemma between their private and their public duty. If they concurred in the opinion that there was suf ficient ground for ulterior proceedings, how much more painful would such a decision prove to the House, when sanctioned by two Hon. and Learned Gentlemen who stood in such a situation? If they thought it their duty to protest against the decision of the Committee, under what disadvantage would they not labour at being among the number of those through whom that decision had been formed ? He, therefore, submitted to the House, whether, for every purpose of public justice and of duty to their Illus.. thous Client, these two Hon. and Learned Gentlemen were not much more free to act by being omitted, than if they were to form any part of the Committee? This would not preclude the House from guardinr the inquiry by taking every precaution to sift the : matter to the bottom. It would be open for the House, as in the case of Sir T. Rumbold, before in- . stituting proceedings in the nature of a Bill, and he guarded against being understood to have any pre ference for that particular mode, to take the precau tion of referring the Report of the Committee, to a Committee of the whole House, in which the whole subject would be laid before the view of the HoUse, and might be discussed by Resolutions.. He could assure • the Right. Hon. Gentleman opposite, and the Learned and Hon. Gentleman near him, that it was impossible for them to feel the deep responsibility at tached to every step which Ministers might take in these most painful proceedings, more sensibly than it was felt by himself and his colleagues. Till the circumstances to Which he had alluded could be ex plained, he botliat, even in the eyes of the Ho nourable and Learned Gentleman himself; it would not appear that there was anything so flagrant in the conduct of Ministers as to :tient condemnation, in the present state of the proceedings—(Hear, hear). He thought that it was the duty of Ministers to avoid all painful disclosures, which, whether true or false, could not fail to produce a painful sensation in the country, to agitate the public mind, and disturb the general tranquillity. In the conversation of yes terday, an Hon. and Learned Gentleman, speaking as the advocate of her Majesty, had been disposed to charge it upon Ministers, that they had not car ried their forbearance far enough; and to contend, that even after the arrival of the Queen in this coun try, they ought not immediately to have come down with a Message from the King, but they might still have kept open what he had been pleased to call the door of negotiation," in the hope that some thing might erase to relieve the House from the pain ful and arduous duty which they were now forced to take upon themselves. Now he would own, that if be had any doubt of the propriety of the course pursued by Ministers (which he had not), it would 'lave arisen from an idea that forbearance had been extended somewhat too far. The transactions of the last eight and forty hours furnished a pretty suffi cient comment on what might have been expected from a negotiation, as it was called, since it was seen, ,that the illustrious Personage who was the subject of this discussion, was so little under the counsel of the .Hon. and Learned Gentleman (her legal adviser), that, by his own confession, those do cuments connected with dig arrangement lately pro• which had been pußlished, had been so pub lished°9edl without his consent. He (Mr. Brougham) had felt it due to himself to declare, that he had not advised that publication, and to admit that it was garbled, imperfect, and untrue. Under whatever lamentable, and he might add criminal advice, that publication had taken place, it was evident that the object of it was to appeal to the lower orders of the people— ( Hear , hear ),-..antt the purposes which it was intended to answer could be concealed from no one who did not wilfully shut his eyes. If any feel ing but regret could * have place in his breast at this moment, he should rejoice that, from the circum stances of the case, no doubt could ( exist as to the course Which Ministers had taken oil this melancholy occasion; that the Illustrious Personage herself had been fully appsised of their - resolution; and that the conduct of Ministers, free from all disguise, had made her distinctly understand the consequences to which , the step she had resolved upon taking, must inevit ably and immediately lead—(Hear, hear, hear), He did not wish to insinuate anything to the piejet dice of her Majesty, mush less to throw blame ow the, Step which she had taken, if she felt assured that she could establish her innocence. The feelings of human nature in such a case would naturally rise up in her behalf. It was, however, of importance that it should be known, that the course intended to be / pursued by Ministers had never been concealed frJrn the parties best entitled to be made acquainted with. *their decision. -In this statement the Honourable trod Learned Gentleman would bear him out ; as to him, the intention of Ministers had been communi cated at the earliest period at which they could he communicated ;.acid he Believed be might say, the they had been known to th e Honourable and teamed Gentleman fur the last motith. This was the last 'Subject on eaith with which he could wish te connect any discussion about went*, but he thought; if at all disposed to do so, he had a sight to quarrel with the use made of the word " negociation"hy the Henour , able and Learned Gentleman, hen speaking on this subject.. He, for his part, it oppcsition to that Hondurable and Learned Gentleman, conceives: I n o , negociation at all to have taken place,.uirless and unreserved exposition of what were the views of Mi-- nisters deserved that name. - He,-'however, could not admit that they had entered into any ; oege. dation,: or that they had offered anything like a' bribe to the Illustrious ludivklual whose case was now to be brought under the consideration of Parliament Having always supposed that it was the intention of her Majesty to remain abroad, he (Lord Castlereagh) had thought that it would be right to return to that specific quantum of allowance which hat formerly been granted to her, a part of which she bad thought it her duty to decline receiving. Looking at the ca' lamitous separation which bad taken place--looking at all the circumstances of the case--be had consi dered it right to bring up her Majesty's income to the amount which it had formerly been proposed tit she should enjoy. The-House were aware that un der her marriage-settlement, in the lamentable event of the death of his Majesty, she would -be entitled to an income of £50,000 a-year, as widow of the King. He had therefore thought it desirable that an annuity to that amount should be granted not; that the subject might r.evertaglia come before Par ' liament—( Hear, hear J.—This, anis, had been pro posed to the Queen, and be had no hesitation - in say ing, that when proposed, the only condition coupled with it was the stipulation that she should remain abroad ! Now with respect to the proposition that the Queen should give up her title and all the rights attached to her situation, he did not know that such a proposition had been made, or could be made ! (Hear, hear). —Nothing had been proposed to her but an arrangement by which it was hoped that all de bates of a hostile nature might be avoided. It was understood that no proposition to the Queen to sur render her rights as Queen could be valid without the interference of the Legislature, and without an Act of Parliament. Ministers had been anxious that such measures might be adopted as should prevent all future conflicts, both at home and abroad, be tween the illustrious parties. It was obvious, that i'!" her Majesty resided in England, both the King and herself would frequently be exposed to much painful embarrassment, aid it Was Ina too evident thatthere was in this country no lack of disposition to turn such circumstances to mischievous purposes (Ikon Hear).. If the Queen thought proper to remain abroad, re ceiving £50,000 per sihnum, her Majesty was not required to abdicate any of her rights as Queso off England, but merely_to do that which was-the com mon, he might almost say, the uniform practise: of persons of her exalted rank—to bear such a tithrae would not raise that perpetual question between her Majeity (from her wish to be received in her public character), which hactbeen productive of,much pain to the Queen herself, and of much inconvenience to other parties. She was not required to surrender any of- her legal rights or claims whatever, and in this,he was sure he should be borne out by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman himself,, who he believed was in possession of a document which placed the in tentions of Minister{ in this respect beytind the possi bility of doubt. He would then maintain, that their conduct had been marked by no harshness unbe ' coming them as Ministers or unbecoming them as ~ nien. Here he must be allowed to make a distinc tion between those privileges given by the Law and Constitution of the country to the Queen of these Realms, and those which usually appertained to her rank, but which it was in the discretion of the Sove reign to bestow. These the Queen, of England did ,not enjoy of right; and because she was denied these privileges, which it rested With the Sovereign to con fer, it was not to be assumed that ,s)te was treated with injustice or oppression. The distinctien which he took was between the Queen of right, and the Queen of grace and favour. Under the privilege of the King, it was that she might be received at Court. The King of this country was the master of his own Court, and family, and that House Was the last place in which a doubt on that subject could be entertain aml. as it had there beets admitted that the King was the Master of his Court, as the Queen was of her Drawing-room; and his Majesty Kid a eight.with out appeal to any human being, to admit or exclude from Court any one he was so disposed to act by, or to treat any member of his. faro' y with either fa thyme r Kg or discouragement. possess agemt. the He po ttozght it right that loss of these privileges in respect to the Crown. Thu power ought to be on those wh o o f w en ere entailing nun the g hang to the Sovereign; he did nitt, sajf that it ought to be exercised cm any impenetrable principle, but the privileges in question, whiCh ,ere conceded as a favour, could not be claimed its. a. right. Without r pursuing this branch of the subjectfairther, he thought .the.Hotise would"feel s and that the HOneuiable pet:- demon would forgive him for siying, that bicauie the Crown chose to withhold certiot favours which it was in its power tegmot, and that at a moment when a judicial inqstiry was pending, it did'not fol low, that the Crown was a party to any act of ieje , - tice, or course of proceeding that might prejudice the individual whose conduct was about to be calk,: in question. He should also, at the proper momeut, contend, that the Crown was to determine whether l or not any individual.waa to be prayed for by nalp in the Liturgy; and the exercise of this right ough" ticot to he viewed as prejudging any cause about to be tried. So long as her Majesty did nothing to force on the Government or the Crown the conside ' ration of the question now before them, no charge had been 'sought for, and nothing but the most cogent and most paramount necessity could have induce.l them to take a step which. must expose the Crown and the Country to the calamitous embarrassmeut by which they were now menaced. But the caw was now, that a nevi state of thingi must be formed from what bad formerly been. Mum tbe