Star. — London, England, 1813-11-30 00:00:00

PARLIAMENT:Mr PROCE.EDINGS. " HOUSE OF LORDS, NOVEMBER 29. U the Appeal " Dempster v. Cleghoni and others," Mr. Ha. tier was heard for the Respondents, and Sir Samuel Romilly in tufty, 'lodgment to-morrow. In an Appeal from the Court of Session In Scotland, " An dre* v.-Murdoch," Sir Samuel &torridly and Mr. AdaLn, jun. wive heard fur the Appellant, and Mr. Adam and Mr. Nolan fur the Respondent. t urther hearing oa Wednesday. Reversion Bill. the • Helatone Election Bill, the London Militia Service Bill, the Militia Interchange Bill, the 60th Regi ment Augmentation inn, the Militia Serjeants' Bill; and the clew South Wales Debts Bill, were Drought up from the Corn :mons by Mr. BANKES, Sir Wu.LIAU CURTIS, Mr. LUSKIN°. TON, and other Members, and were read a first time, with the eszeption of the Reversion Bill, and the Helstone Election Bill. 'f he Loan Interest Bill, the Clergy Penalty Suspension Bill, and the An oat Indemnity Bill, were read a 3d time and passed. The Subsidy Bill, the Irish Olficers Bill, the Irish Sugar Bill, and the stots spirit Licence Bill, were read a second time and committed or to.niorrow. Petitions from the Debtors confined in Lancaster mad York Castles were presented by Lord - He ttazt D, and in Giltspur-street and the P,ititry Compeers by Lord ZLLEIIIIOIOUGII. Ordued to he un the 'I able. INSOLVENT DEBTORS. Lord REDESDA LE presented his Bill for; am. tiding the Act of last Session, for the Relief of Insolvent Debtors, which was read a first time, and ordered to be printed. Lord ELLENBOROUGH moved the second reading of his temporary Insolvent Debtors' Bill, wishiig that it might go through this stage in regu lar course, in order that, in the event of its not being found practicable to render the Act of last .Session effectual. for its object, that this Bill might pass before the Recess. Lord HOLLAND remarked upon the inconsis tency of sanctioning a Bill, professing to repeal the. Act of lAA Session, at, the same moment that they en tertained a Bill for amending that Act. Lerd REDESDALE also observed upon the in. consi :tem y of . racctioning a Bill, the principle of which was to repeal the Act of last Session, whilst a Bill was before the House to amend that Act. respect to the difficulties stated to exist in the execu tion of the Act of last Sessions, persons had been in dustriously employed to disseminate objections which did not exist in point of fact, whilst the difficulties that had really. occurred might be easily obviated.— His Lordship then entered into a detail of some length, for the purpose of strewing the easy with which the real objections to the Act might be got rid of, by declaring and enacting the power of the Com missioner to remove from place to place ; by decla ring and enacting the express obligation upon gao lers t, bring tip their prisoners; by appointing an officer to take a provisional assignment of the deb tor's effixts, similar to the Clerk of the Peace at the Sessions ; by repe - ling the Court of Appeal ; by substituting a recognizance, to be given by the deb tor (as to the liability of his future property, under the direction of the Court) instead of an engage. ment : and, finally, by giving a discretionary power to the Commissioner to authorise Justices in Quar ter Scsstons to discharge debtors, reserving to himself to have persons brought before him, where he saw a necessity fur investigation, which would happen comparatively in but iew instances. This latter clause, if the House agreed to add it to the Bill in a Committee, would answei all the purposes of the Noble and Learned Lord's temporary bill, without tile objections which applied to all temporary Insolvent Acts. Uoder . Acts of the latter descrip tion, the future property of the debtor was rendered liable, but in a manner that rendered it only attach able by bringing actions, and thus it might happen that one crckthor obtaining execution might get all the effects of me debtor, nothing being kft for the (Wier creditors, whilst the debtor might by this pro cedure be ruined. Under the Act of last Session, on the contrary, the future property was only ren dered habie, subject to the discretion of r.e Court ; and thus, if he attained the means, a gradual mode of payment might be resorted to, under the autho. rity of the Court, which would preserve the debtor om ruin, and be more just to the creditor in the equal distribution of funds for payment. Lerd ELLENBOROUGH was desirous of its being distinctly understood, that he had thrown no obstacle in the way of the Act .last Session, but on the contrary he had suggested many propositions for what he considered the improvement of it. He still urged the second reading of his Bill, that it might be in readiness in case it could not be found practicable effectually to amend the Act of last Session. Lord REDESDALE did not mean to accuse the Noble and Learned Lord of throwing difficulties in the way of the Act of last Session, but where some Officers attended the Court, whilst others chose to disobey the orders of the Commissioner, without as signing any reason for so doing, it was clear that a divosition existed somewhere to thwart the execution of the Act. As to the suggestions of the Noble and Learned Lord, they chiefly related to the form of the jurisdiction to be erected. Tlit LORD CHANCELLOR was desirous of giving every possible assistance to render effectual the Act of the Legislature. He thought, however, that it would be advisable to forward the temporary Bill a stage, in order that it might be available, before the recess, in case they should be unable to agree upon a proper Bill, for amending the Act of last Session. Lord HOLLAND was decidedly hostile to press. ing a temporary Insolvent Bill at the present mo ment—particularly a Bill which stated what had not been proved, that the Act of last Session had been found ineffectual. It was not his practice to deal in insinuations: it might have been by accident that the Commissioner was not-appointed till two months af ter the passing of the Act—it might have been by accident that the Marshal of the King's Bench, when the Court at length met, chose to disobey the order of the Court, and to assign no reason for such con &act ; but, with all the circumstances in view that were notorious to the public, it was a little too much to sa.y 'that the Act had been found ineffectual, par. titularly when, after all, the difficulties started bad been foto& to be merely such as might be easily re moved. He could not ccnsent to resort to the mis chi:vous principle of temporary Insolvent Bills, when they had the sound principle of Legislation before them already, embouied in an Act which only requi., red some trifling amendments. It was an observa tion of Mr. Horne Tooke's, when substitutes were resorted to in a time of scarcity for fine flour..—" Do' mot," says he to some poisons, 66 touch the barley ,4 brown bread now offered to you if you clo, you will never get • ten bread as long as you live. do not resort - to the mischievous tive of Insolvent Bills, whin , _ _ rendering effectual an'Act founded ciple of legislation. After some further conversation, tl a second time, and committed for Tin understanding we believe, that the Lord Redeedale'. amended Bill should colon on to morrow (this day) on the second reading. Adjourned till to-morrow (this day). HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. J. SMITH presaged s Petition front certain Artisans of Nottingham—Ordered to lie on the table. The Accoee,*--- Bill was ecoindtted, and ordered to be reported to-morrow. Mr. LUSHINGTON brought op the Report of the Commit tee on the East-India Sugar Bill, which was ordered to be re committed to-morrow. The Sugar Bounty BiII was read a second time, and ordered to be committed to morrow. A Message was presented from the Lords, announcing their assent to the Lean Charge and Indemnity Bills. The Watch and Ward Bill was read a second time, and orde red to be committed to morrow. Mr. H. ADDINGTON proposed to put off the committing of the Police Bill till to-morrow ' • and stated, that th e only change he contemplated in it was an increase of the salaries of the Ma gistrates. Upon this, the SPEAKER suggested, that the increase of sa lary must be submitted to a previous Committee, and the com mitting of the Bill was in consequence put off till Thursday next. INSOLVENT DITTOES. Mr. BENSON presented a Petition from Debtors confined hi Liverpool, praying for relief : also, a Petition from persons con fined in the County Jail of Stafford, to the same effect. He ex pressed a wish to be then informed, by an Honourable Gentle man opposite (Mr. Lockhan) whether it was his intention to brine forward his measure for the relief of Insolvent Debtors, or whether he had relinquished it Mr. I.OOKHART said, he thought it more expedient to waft the issue in the House of Lords of a motiouto be made this night on the same subject, by the Noble Lord who brought in the last Insolvent Debtors' Bill; he would therefore put off his intended motion till to-morrow. Sir SAMUEL ROMILLY presented a Petition from certain Imprisoned Debtors.—Ordered to lie on the table. LACE-FRAME-BREAKING BILL. Mr. H. ADDINGTON moved the second read ing of the Lace-frame-Waking Bill." Mr. J. SMYTH said, that he had the satisfaction of knowing that perfect order and tranquillity now exists at Nottingham. He, however, hdd do objec tion to the renewal of the Bill, particularly from the circumstance of Lace-frames having no statuteable protection before this Act. He was, however, un. willing to agree to the renewal of that part which annexed to offences specified the penalty of death. Mr. H. ADDINGTON admitted that perfect tranquillity now exists, but still thought it better to renew for the present a Bill found so salutary, in the same form as that in which its operation was so suc cessful. There was a remote possibility,, and, under all the circumstances, he thought it his duty to move for the renewal of the Bill. The penalty was severe, but it was the dread of that severity that chiefly con tributed to giving it effect. Sir S. ROMILLY conceived, that no sufficient ground was submitted to the House that an Act of such importance, creating .1 capital felony, should lx renewed. The House should have extensive informa tion before they proceeded in such a course. Before the late Act stocking-frame breaking was a trans. portable offence, and lace-frame breaking was no more than a misdemeanour. "I he existence of a dan gerous conspiracy to commit outrages might justify the substitution of capital punishment by the late act, but it was temporary, and its necessity at that parti cular time was regretted by the Right Hen. Secre tary who introduced it. Not only the disturbances, but their causes, were removed. Tranquillity and trade had succeeded to poverty and disorder. It would have been impossible for the most sanguine imagination to anticipate a more flourishing state of the country than that now realised. Two years of peace and good order had now elapsed, and that was a sufficient time, from which to infer that the renewal of the Bill was not called for. The principal objec tion to the Bill, when first introduced, was, that the Act of the 28th of George the Second, which made this offence a simple felony, was not fairly tried before it was declared inadequate. Its severity was a means of defeating its purpose, as it was on that account seldom enforced. Mr. BATHURST said, this was not an Act, of course, to be permanently renewed, but only for one year; nor could that be fairly inferred from what had fallen from his Right Hon. Friend who moved it-- He admitted that perfect tranquillity prevailed, and that trade flourished beyond the most sanpine hopes; but still, he conceived, a sufficient length of time had not elapsed to justify the House in discontinuing the . Act. Even prosperity might produce occurrences to render it necessary to resort to it. Mr. HORNER said, the measure was never justi fied on any other ground than that of necessity. Why then should a remote possibility be set np as a suffi cient plea for its continuance ? He would not recur to the differences of opinion on the first introduction of the measure ; but he would state, that he was at all times bf opinion, that the laws before on the sta tute-book were perfectly adequate to the occasion, and the disturbances were, in substance, put down under the ancient statutes. • It was an important con sideration, that criminal proceedings under this Bill assumed a new appearance. An offence in itself light, but rendered dangerous by circumstances, should be severely punished at all times, and a temporary law made permanent. This would derange the whole system of our criminal law. Drinking a health was at one time severely and justly punished, but from peculiar and temporary causes. The Act goes a great way. If a single individual, unconnected with any combination, should injure a piece of stocking or lace, or injure any part of the machinery,. it was a capital offence. Under the words of the Act a mis chievous apprentice, who injured a piece out of ma lice to his master, must be convicted of a capital fe lony. Many old laws were permitted to remain on the statute book through a want of wisdom in former Parliaments, which it required all the ingenuity of the Judges at present to evade. He remembered an iostance, in which it was decided by a Judge of the first talents and character, that a whip in the left hand of la coachman, and leaning on the ground, was a weapon under the Stabbing Act, which rendered stabbing a capital crime, unless the person stabbed had a weapon drawn in his hand. To renew this Bill would be virtually to make it permanent. The re mote possibility now talked of would always exist. '1 he most that should be done was to make lace fteJloller Oe old ellickiog frame arguments urged against were altogether inappli. ' to renew it for another were most salutary, and to decide upon the ~. • _: _ was greatly surprised that a Bill-enacted under circumstances of very extraor dinary danger should be continued at a time like the present. There was a particular feallirtalf sever* in this Act ; it compelled a protean/of( . ender tpa penalty of a misdemeanour, and this at 'a lime whin no disorder, no combination, could be supposed to exist. As to the argument of common prudence and remote poinibility, to that there could be no limit.— He would conjure the House to pause betore.it re enacted such a Bill, and hoped the Right Honours le Gentleman himself would take it again into his con sideration. - Mr. Alderman SMITH contended, that as little argument had been urged against this Bill as for it,' though the Gentlemen or. the other side charged up on the Gentleman with whom he agreed in opinion that they had produced no grounds.—(Hear, hear, from the Opposition Benches.)—As to the case of apprentices doing injury to a piece of stocking or lace out of malice, the law could never be supposed to ap ply to them. Mr. COURTENAY saw, no necessity for renew ing the bill. Mr. H. ADDINGTON, in explanation, declared his readiness to avbw, It:lost directly, that no appre hension was entertained, and that no information whatever had come within his official department, which would lead to a supposition that any disturb ances were likely to take place in/he country. (Hear, hear.) But still he thought the Bill was too recent to be discontinued. Could Gentlemen undertake to say that the former combinations were wholly broken up i Mr. LOCKHART said, the penalty of death had met his approbation when the Bill was enacted, which had the effect of giving a true character to the of fence. But happily the state of the country wits now changed, and he felt it his duty to oppose the conti nuance of the Bill. (Hear, hear.) If the same neces sity recurred, the Bill might be re-enacted. • Mr. BROWNE objected to the continuance of an Act, so very severe in its provisions, upon mere spe culation. Mr. H. ADDINGTON again explained, and Sir S. ROMILLY moved an Amendment, that the Bill be read a second time that day six months. The House having divided, there appeared—For the Amendment 15—Against it 37—Majority 22. The Bill was of course read a second time, and ordered to be committed. On re-enterieg the gallery, we found Lord CASTLE nEnon on his legs, moving for leave to bring in a Bill to regulate the trade of his Majesty's subjects to and from the places within the East India Company's Charter, and from thence to any other countries not within that Charter. After a few words from Mr. Alderman ATKINS, leave was given. * * ‘red ron as a ifor king, a simple lei a morsetof 7 1- ;" Its the same manner as So, he., g. mous tempdrtry - jean t BEST said, the ergo you have the 'sea of the permanency ofthe Bill wen bonded on a great piin► cable, as it was only proposed to - - year. The aids of the Bill wer salon, the B 1 was read it required great • copsideration d for Thursday, with an propriety ef discontinuihg it. that the discussion •on Mr. ABERCROMBIE was MILITIA. i.; 7 7 Lord CASTLEREAGH moved the reading of the Militia Act, for the purpose of submitting to the House a Motion on the subject. His object was two fold; first, to extend the provisions of the said act to the Miners of the counties of Cornwall and Devon; and next, to explain and amend the Act, by providing that Militia Officers, promote by the Ciown, shall still be considered as Militia Officers, so far as to enable them to command Militia Battalions. The Noble Lord. after some farther explanation, obtained leave accordingly to bring in a Bill to amend and ex plain, and to extend the provisions of the said Act to the Miners of Cornwall and Devonshire. Mr. GRENFELL made some observations on the situation of Paymasters in these corps, to which Lord PALME R S'l ON replied. MUTINY BILLS. • On the motion of the Order of the Day for the commitment of the Marine Mutiny Bill, Mr. BEN NET made some remarks on the nature and severity of military punishments, complaining particularly of the practice usual in flogging, of inflicting se much of the punishment, and remanding the unfortunate culprit to he brought out again to receive the remain. der. He doubted if the practice was legal or not ; but if so the point ought to be made positive, to let the soldier know what he had to expect. Lord PALMERSTON, in reply, contended this very seldom occurred, but that there were cases in which it was necessary to reserve that power, as otherwise there were men that would feign such a state of weakness and exhaustion, as not to be able to undergo more, and thus evade a great part of the punishment. The commitment of the Bill w►as postponed till to ' morrow. The House then went into a Committee on the Mutiny Bill. Lord PALMERSTON, in filling up the blanks, brought up a clause allowing certain Officers to sit on Courts Martial held beyond seas, which was agreed to. • Mr. BENNET complained of solitary imprison ment as a punishment inflicted by Courts Martial. Lord PALMERSTON and Mr. MANNERS SUTTON spoke in reply. There were different de. grees of imprisonment, of which solitary confinement might be considered as the most severe. These were usually left to the discretion of the Court, and the instances of the last sort of confinement they believed were very few. There was a necessity, however, of giving Courts Martial that power. Lord PALMERSTON also introduced a clause into the Bill, to prevent persons unauthorised from advertising for recruits, under certain penalties. Mr. BENNET then moved a clause conformably to some remarks he had previously suggested, for preventing persons, alter receiving a certain part of their punishment, being remanded with a view after wards to receive the remainder, under penalty of cashiering the Officer so offending. Sir S. ROMILLY said, if such was the law, as it was too often the practice, it ought to be so no longer. —He was afraid such instances occurred more fre quently than the Noble Lord opposite was willing to allow. He did not see the force of the reason assign. ed by. the Noble Lord for the practice, for he thought it impossible, as a surgeon was always present, that ~'...z . . V 4 )l c; a man could so felpotbanstion as not to be detected. There wu an.eztreme degree of inhumanity in the practice, and, if at present considered legal, it could not too soon be discontinued. It was often used, he contended, to induce men to enter condemned regi. meats, and to go abroad rather than submit to such repeated torture., Torture had never existed in this country as a civil punishment, and, if not with re spect to others, was it to be allowed against those to whom the country owed its defence He considered the idea of a man's-otherwise escaping punishment, by feigning not to be able to bear more, as chimeri cal. Ihe surgeon attending would always be able to announce the real state of the culprit, by his pulse. or other symptoms. Lord PALMERSTON contended, that such a case was by no means so chimerical, as the Hon. ant'. Learned Gentleman imagined, but, on the contrary, that this mode of evading the punishment was fre quently practised. lie objected to this clause, be cause it did not appear to him that any good grounds had been laid for supposing the practice frequent-- He trusted, therefore, the Hon. Gentleman would not press it. Mr. MANNERS-SUTTON was as much averse to the practice as any man would be, of taking down a soldier and remanding him for future punishment ; but, on the other hand, saw the great difficulty of so framing the clause as to avoid the other inconvenience stated by the Noble Lord. As the Bill was brought in at this unusual season, he wished it to pass without the introduction of any new feature. There was no thing to be feared from the present practice, or from allowing the Bill to pass as it had usually done. Na body had an opportunity of knowing better than lie did the feelings on this subject of the Illustrious Duke at the head of the army, who was ever foremost to dis courage any thing like unnecessary severity. Mr. BENNE'I adverted to the alterations that had taken place *already in the army, from dis. cussions in that HOuse on the subject of Military Pu nishments ; and saw no reason why die Commander in-Chief, in this instance, should not interfere. Could he look forward to this effect, he should have no ob. jection to the Houses not interfering. Sir S. ROMILLY was of opinion, that the evil often arose from die sentence of the Court Martial; and contended, that it was highly wrong to sentence a man to more than human nature could bear at one time. The argument of the Right Hon. Gentleman against introducing any thing, as the Bill was brought in at this unusual season, was the very objection that he had to the bringing in of the Bill at this unusual period of the Session, when so few were present. Mr. MANNERS SUTTON and Sir SAMUEL ROMILLY mutually explained ; when the clause, after a few words from Mr. BENSON, was negatived without * division.—.-On the House resuming, the Report was ordered to be received to-morrow. The Hop hill was ordered to be read a second time on Thurs day near, and the Local Militia Act a third time to-morrow. Having disposed of thi other orders of the day, the House _ _ FRENCH PA PERS. . *. PARIS, NOVEMBER 22. His Majesty the Emperor had, to-day, in the Court of the Thuilleries, a review of the different corps of troops, infantry and cavalry, when•he received a great number of petitions, presented to bim by miliary men. His Majesty discoursed for a considerable length of time with the different Chiefs of Corps I ani during that review appeared at some grating which encloses the Castle, he was received with crys of— " Five rinytereur !" by the numerous. public. The soldiers, whilst defiling before his Majesty, uttered the same acclamations. His Majesty the King of Rome, dressed in uniform, walked for a long time in the middle of the troops. This review commenced at ten o'clock, and cunclu. ded at half-past twelve. Nov. 23.—His Majesty the Emperor to-day presi ded at a Sitting of the Council of State. His Majesty appeared this evening at the Opera, between the Play and Ballet. He was received with unanimous and reiterated applause.. His Serene Highness the Prince Arch Treasurer of the Empire arrived this morning in this capital. They write from Mayence, nailer date of the 19th instant— es - A report is in circulation in this town, that the Allied Armies are about to be separated and divided into different corps, which shall be spread in very ex tensive cantonments. The difficulty of procuring pro visions is, it is said, one of the principal causes of this measure, occasioned besides by the necessitf of pro. curing repose to troops worn out with fatigue, and in want of every thing. Noma= 24.—They write from Cologne, under date of the 20th, that a part of the army under the orders of the Duke of Tarente, has put itself in mo. tion to march upon Wesel and approach Holland.— Other troops, which are successively arriving, will re place those which shall have set out. BOIS-LE.DUC, NOVEMBER 16. They are busily occupied from all parts in this de partment, in conveying goods and provisions to We sel, for the provUioning of that place. MILAN, NOVEMBER 19. The army, since the battle of Caldiero, has returned to its first positions round Verona. All is in the most perfect tranquillity here. COLOGNE, NOVEMBER 17. The enemy has left the Banks. Yesterday an in• habitant of Cologne, who was upon the right bank, appeared before Mebl ; he stated that there were no longer any troops there, and requested that they should come and take him. A Colonel of lancers sent beyond the river a reconr.oissance, which assured it self that in effect the Allies had gene to a distance. STRALSUND, NOVEMBER 19. Two days ago wer- burnt those house;•of the ail• lage of Kehl, which had not been destroyed, in order that the advanced works of Kell may not be incom moded. These works have been augmented by nee• .