Star. — London, England, 1813-06-30 00:00:00

• ;N1 dRr PROCEEIIINGS. PARLL HOUSE 01 , LORDS, JUNE ft Their Lordships met, according to agreement, in a Committee of Privileges on tht• Airly Peerage ; the further proceedings in which arc deferred till this day sennight. Mr. Lvs at ail' ON, and others, from the Commons, brought op the MAI astillation, the Pot-Ash, and the Strand Bridge Amend ment Bills, which were read the ant time. Counsel w-re beard at the Bar relative to the New Street Bill before the Committee, when Mr. WARRBII, in behalf of the Commissioners of Sewers, and Mr. Hammon, in support of the having urged their respective arguments, the further coma &ration was, upon theltiotion of the Earl of LIVERPOOL, re. Wto a Committ ee ab o v e st a i rs , w hi c h was or d ere d to s i t on rathy no-=t. The Militia Adjutants and the Militia Subalterns Bills went though a Committee, and were ordered to be Reported., THE REGENT'S MESSAGE. The Order of the Day for taking into consideration the Message presented yesterday by his Royal High ness the Prince Regent being read, The P e arl of LIVERPOOL rose to move that an bumble Address be presented to the Prince Regent. He should not take up much of their Lordships' time. Whatever difference oropinions or sentiments might exist among their Lordships relative to the condition, the prospects, and the policy of this country, and of • Europe generally, there could be no doubt, he was persuaded, in their minds, as to the expediency, at the present moment, of vesting confidence in his Ma jesty's Ministers, whomsoever they might be. He was aware that the sum of aid proposed was very considerable, but such as, he was confident, the wis ' dom and discernment of their Lordships, whether they looked to the state of affairs in the South, or con templated the proceedings in the North of Europe, would deem it expedient and proper to afford. It was not incumbent on him, or seasonable then, to enter into a justification of the general measures of his Ma jesty's present Government. But to this conclusion was sure their Lordships would come—that Mini. eters should be invested with proper authority, and with adequate means to exert it. He should not further detain their Lordships than by moving, That an humble Address be presented to his Royal High ness the Pristce Regent, thanking his Royal Highness for his gracieu , Message; and assuring him, that the house would • adopt such measures as were best calculated to carry the objects of at into effect." Lord HOLLAND had no desire to enter in detail on the sulliect before their Lordships, not from a feeling that it did not admit of earnest and ample examination, but because he was unprepared by an intimation hardy exceeding twenty-four hours, for the discussion of questioris involving the deepest in terests of this ccurary and of Europe. Short, how. ever, as the notice had been, and limited as the means were of his entering into the question, it was impos sible for him not to express his deep regret that a con venis nt and most le•peful opportunity for facilitating at least, it not accomplishing, what all Europe lan guished for—a general peace—was lost last year. If their Lordships would compare the present situation of this country, and of our Allies, with what it was about six or seven months back, they would at once perceive the injurious disparity. At the former pe riod to whicn he alluded, peace might, with honour and dignity and great hope, have been offered to the enemy—but no proof or indication of such a wish, no effort whatever to that effect was made by his Ma jesty's Ministers, or any measures embraced for resist sag the ov,igrown and preponderating power of Frame. he would call the attention of their Lord. ships to that period, when the French Emperor was compelled to retreat from Russia. He would request of them to consider what the effect of that retreat would naturally be in France, and how much thereby the potency of the French Emperor must beimpaired. Wahl'a view to peace then, that object wished by ' all, what must be the difference between tke periods ? What had we riot to look for from the former, what remained for us in the latter ? The fact was. Bona parte had in the conduct of .his enemies found the r ablest rccinizing.offico-s to Carry on his Measures.— ills Lordship concluded with moving an Amend ment to the Address, recommending to his Royal • Highness to sieze the first opportunity of endeavour . ing to obtain a peace, Without injury to the honour and dignity of the Crown, or to the welfare, interests, and happiness of this country, and of our Allies. The Earl of LIVERPOOL, for the reasons al ready named, was unwilling to enter into or protract discussion. The Noble Lord (Holland) had very fairly stated his distrust of his Majesty's Ministers, and advanced that distrust as the ground of his amendment. An opportunity had been lost, it seem ed, last year from the backwardness of Ministers to make peace. He could produce better authority than even that of thelslobleLord why peace could not then be attained—authority no less than that of Bonaparte P ; himself, who, even after his retreat from Moscow, t and with all the probable influence of that retreat, not only on the people of France but throughout Europe, sent forth a declaration of his intentions, in /: utter opposition to any terms of peace, which could either with honour or reason be listened to by the ; • test of Europe. But whatever opinions might gene ) rally or respectively be entertained as to the expedi ency or policy of peaceful neciations, nothing, in ~ ) his mind, could be more adverse or tend more di rectly to defeat that object than the amendment \ L moved by the Noble Lord. ' The Earl of LAUDERDALE agreed completely in every part of his Noble Friend's (Lord Holland) ? argument. He would ask the Noble Secretary of State whether he could deny that peace was a desir able object, or if it were not so by Ministers, whether it was not clearly so by the Public ? His Noble Friend had distinctly shewn that an opportunity for ) 'j snaking an advantageous peace had occurred, and that the opportunity was lost. His Noble Friend had V been charged with withholding confidence from Mi . misters. The accusation was an awkward one. His Nolile Friend, in the indulgence of his generous na ture, had given liberal credit to Ministers at the early • part of the Session, and if they had forfeited their claim to its continuance the fault was not with his 'Noble Friend. Lord HOLLAND explained. The Address was then agreed to and ordered to be tarried up to his Royal Highness by the Lords 'with white staves.—Adjourned till to-morrow. HOUSE. OF COMMONS. The The Arms Bill was ordered to be reported to-morrow. Lott* D} sERT obtained leave to bring in a Pill to amend the Sill fur granting £5( ,tha to the Imb Royal Canal Company. 'I be Walt Canal Company Bill was read a third time, and passed; as were the Trinity Doetrioe Bill, the Funded Debt Bill, 1164 the Duty hes Otuds BIN and maul odes MX Mr. 112MIEY site lades that he should, en Mondinhtiot forward a motion on the state of the F►nances. Mr. ROSE brought in a Bill for regulating the Registering of Births and Burials. Read a first, and ordered to be read a se cond time to-morrow. The Report of the Windsur Forest Bill was received, and the Bill ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. PEWTER POT BILL. Mr. ROSE moved the third reading of the Victuallers' Bill. Mr. CROKER said, be bad already stated hi' sentiments so fully upon this Bill, that he should now content himself with moving, that, instead of now, the Bill should be read a third time this day three months. Mr. ROSE wished his Hon. rriend to understand, that, If this Iffit were now lost, the effect would be, that. from this time forward, no less a quantity of porter could be sent out than one gallon. Mr. CROICER said, the Statute alluded to by his Right Hon. Friend was a dead letter; it had not been acted upon for up wards of a century. He had two objections to this Bill; first, that it went to throw the expence from the tradesman to the consumer; and, secondly, that it would operate to /rive the poorer classes to the tippling houses. As to the absurd Statute which his Right Hon. Friend bad alluded to, if it was put in force, it would only be necessary to move-the repeal of it to-morrow. Mr. ROSE was convinced the Statute to which he had alluded would be put in force ; the Publicans were determined it should. be so; and, in his opinion, rightly so. Mr. WHITBREAD said, a pot, equally wholesome and clean, would be placed in its stead, namely, block tin. Mr. PEELE opposed the Bill. He thought it should be left to the Publican to use pewter or block tin. Mr. MARRIOTT and Mr. GOCLOZOURN also opposed the Bill. Mr. W. Ss4 rr is supported it. 3 he House then divided—For the third reading, 32—For the Amendment, 35—Majority against the Bill, 3. LOCAL TOKENS BILL. On the Order of the Day fur the third reading of the Local Tokens' Mi. Mr. GRENFELL adverted to the losses sustainedby the lower classes of persons by the circulation of Copper Local Tokens and old :rower Halfpence. The losses sustained from this deicrip. tion of depreciated coin, he said, were lot confined to the lower orders only, but fell partitularly heavy on some great tradesmen, and more especially on the brewers; some of whom, be knew, of his own knowledge. had accumulated unavoidably large quan tities, to the amount of several hundred weight, and had been obliged to sell them as old copper, at little more than half what they bad originally received them for. Mr. VANSITTART said, Government had It in contpnpla don to adopt some measure on this subject. 1 he Bill was then read a third time and passed. THE BAKERS' BILL. Mr. FRANKLIN LEWIS moved the Order of the Day for taking into further consideration the Report of the Bakers' Bill. Mr. W. SMITH objected to a Bill of this importance being pressed at so late a period of the Session. Great objections exis ted against the provisions of it in various parts of the country ; indeed, he was instructed by his Constituents to oppose it most strongly. He should not pledge Isi,mself to do that, if the Hon. Gentleman would delay his measure till next Session : he might then be enabled to support it, as the objections might, upon far ther consideration, disappear. He should therefore propose to the Hon. Gentleman to let the Bill lie over through the summer, and let it be circulated through the country. To obtain this ob ject, he should move as an Amendment, that the Report be taken into turther consideration this day three mouths. Mr. HUSKISSON supported the Bill. He thought the argu ments of the Hon. Gentleman who had proposed the Amendment could not a', ply to a measure which had received the full and mature consideration which this measure bad done. 'I he Report was then receisTed, the Amendment being nega tived without a divisor:, and Use Bill was ordered to be read a third time. AMERICAN TRADE. Mr. Alderman ATKINS, in rising to bring for ward his motion on this subject, said, be had flattered himself, that, previous to this time, his Majesty's Mi nisters would have done something on this measure. He supposed, however, they had delayed doing so to afford an opportunity to the House to declare its sense on the subject. The object of his motion now would be to prevent the importation of American cotton during the continuance of the war. To induce the House to adopt such a measure, he was persuaded it would only be necessary for him to advert to the Pe tition, which had been presented to the House on the subject. He had himself, on a former night, pre sented a Petition, signed by upwards of 250 most re spectable merchants, importers of cotton, stating, that notwithstanding the war, large quantities of American cotton were imported into this country, di. rect from the United States, and notwithstanding our having at present a sufficient supply on our hands, received from the Brazils and from our own colonies. It would, perhaps, be. said, that the blockade of the American ports would prevent the future import of American cotton. He was, however, prepared to prove, that large quantities had found its way into this country, notwithstanding that blockade ; and he now called on the House to adopt such a measure as should in future prevent the enemy deriving resources from thus disposing of their staple commodity, and to encourage our own colonies and allies, by taking the cotton which we wanted for our consumption from them ; it would be, he contended, particularly desirable to encourage the growth of cotton in India, which, lie was convinced, if properly fostered, would furnish a supply fully adequate to our wants. The House would, perhaps, be surprised when he stated to them, that there were at present in the Company's warehouses upwards of 26,0(.0,0001b5. of cotton un sold, and that upwards of 20,000,0001b5. had been sold besides to manufactueers. He then adverted to several other Petitions, and particularly to one from the Cotton-spinners of Paisley, in which the Petitio ners prayed the House to prevent the importation of American cotton during the war, on the grounds of the impolicy of receiving from them the raw mate rial, whilst they refused admission to our manufac tured goods. Since, if they refused to take manufac tured goods, they must be paid in specie, and we were thus supplying them with the sinews of war; whilst, on the contrary, the Brazils took our manufactured goods in return for the raw material taken from them. All these reasons, the Honourable Alderman observed would, he hoped, induce the House to adopt the measure which he would conclude with recommending. It might be said, by excluding •he American cotton, we should risk having a suf ficient supply for our necessities—in his opinion, there ' was no room for such apprehensions. The con , sumption in our manufactures wasabout 75,000,0001b5. annually, or about 1,500,0001b5. per week. Now we had at present on hand upwards of 86,000,0001b5. we could, in six months, receive a supply of 40,000,0001b5. from the Brazils, and in the same period, our own co lonies would produce us2o,ooo,ooolbs. to which might be added casual supplies ; and we might thus look forward to a supply, as at present on nand, for two years. The Hon. Alderman then proceeded to argue that the cotton of the Brazils, and of our own Colo nies was nearly, if not quite, equal in quality, to the American cotton, and read several letters from Lan. cashire manufacturers and others in support of that opinion. The Hon. Alderman concluded by moving, " 'that tho House should go into a Committee on so much of the Act of the 434 of the King as related to the Importation of Cotton Wan." Mr. FINLAY was decidedly against the object for which the Hon. Alderman was contending. He thought it would be a most unwise, impolitic, and ruinous measure, to exclude a large supply of raw ma terials coming to this countri, unless we could also exclude it from the Continental markets also ; other wise, to exclude the raw material to a large extan t from this market, would have the effect of producing) a scarcity here, and raising the price to an unnatural height, whilst its influx into the Continental markets 'wotal render the price unnaturally low, and 'hug en able them to undersell us in the market in their manu factured goods. He concluded with expressing his wish that the House would not precipitately adopt a Resolution, which might produce the most serious in jury to our manufactures. Mr. ELLIS thought the Colonies had a right to complain of the partial relaxation of that system of vigour which necessarily prevailed between this coun try and America ; and that sufficient encouragement had not been given to our Colonies. The question of difference now at issue seemed to resolve itself merely into a question of price; and he was convinced that no consideration ot this kind ought to induce us to alter the principles of sound policy which it was our duty to act upon. We were already blockading the ports of America • but, without auxiliary measures, that blockade wou ld not be sufficient to complete the, system of a rigorous hostility against that country, without which we could not expect to bring the war to a favourable conclusion. He should therefore sup port the motion of the Hon. Alderman. Mr. MARRYATT did not conceive that there ever could be a scarcity of cotton, which was a plant of indigenous growth in every country within the tropics, and which could be produced in one year from the seeds. It was proper therefore to encourage the growth of cotton in our own colonies, by prevent ing the importation of cotton from the country of our enemies. If we bought cotton from our colonies .:nd allies, we imported it in our own ships. and paid for it with our own manufactures ; but by importing cotton from America, we paid for the same in specie, and we gave encouragement to foreign navigation. We had too long borne with the improper conduct of America;—it was at length time to bring that country to her senses by a system of rigour which we had hitherto neglected; It was the object of America, in subserviency to Fiance, to destroy our commercial prosperity ;—and we should, therefore, shew that so important a branch of manufacture as this 'should not depend on America..—He, therefore, most cordially supported the motion. Mr. FINLAY, in explanation, said, he never meant to recommend any thing that should place us in a state of dependence on America. Mr. PHILLIPS said, if we refused to import American cottons, we should give the manufacturers on the Continent an advantage over us, in point of cheapness of the raw material, which would be highly injurious to our manufactures. He was convinced, that the East Indies could produce cottons equal to `those of America ; but various impediments had been thrown in the way of such products in India, and a sufficient supply could not be produced from thence. There might be a stock of cotton in die country for a year's consumption; but there was not a stock suf ficient for all the future wants of the manufacturers : it would, therefore, be doing great injustice to the ma nufacturers, to agree with the motion of the Hon. Alderman ; because they never could carry on their business, unless either the prices of the raw material were lowered or the wages of their labourers reduced. VANSIrrART declared, that the arguments advanced on both sides were unsatisfactory to him. The low prices of cotton were not owing so much to the quantity imported, as to the inability of the manu facturers to purchase them. It was contradictory to facts, to say that the Continental manufacturers would have aseadvantage over us; because the fact was, that our manufactures were constantly boug7.t up in every part of the Continent to which the y could be sent.- -From every consideration hr gave this subject, he thought it wi uhl not be adt isable to interfere in the present existing system ; and such a measure as this could have no other effect than th.:t of raising the price of American Cotton, but would nest prevent the importation ; for it would then be imported in British ships from some depot where it would be lett; but this circuitous importation woulo, raise the price, without producing an adequate benefit. Another objection he bad to this measure was, that the dura tion of it would not depend on any Act of our own Parliament, but on the American Legislature ; be sides the price of the article might be raised here so as to give an advantage to the Continental manufac ture. At this late period ot the Session, he thought it would not be wise to come to a decision on so im portant a question, which might stand over for ano ther year; and, thei eli,re, he must oppose the motion, and move the Order of the Day. Mr. PHILLIPS explained. Mr. CANNING thought the time was arrived when there ought to be some decision on this question, so as to put an end to the agitation of the country upon it. As a general position, it was clearly ad vantageous for a manufacturer to go and get mate rials as cheap as he could ; but every question of this kind must be decided on the simple principles of the case itself. Gentlemen who opposed this motion were favourable to the blockade of America. And why were they so ? because they well knew it was ineffec tual to prevent the exportation of produce from Ame rica. It did not appear to him that the motion of the Hon. Alderman was open to the objections of his Right Hon. Friend. The effect of the Act of the 43d of the King was only to prevent importation in foreign ships, but the object of this motion was to prevent importation altogether, which the blockade could not do. If cotton was to find its way to the Continent, then let the blockade be more rigorously enforced ; and at the same time let this measure come in aid of the blockade, which was ineffectual in its object of distressing the commerce o f A mer i ca. He should, therefore, give his vote for the Honourable Alder man's motion, Mr. ROBINSON opposed the motion. Mr. STEPHEN observed, that the blockade must have the effect of prohibiting the importation of any cargo that ;night escape from an American port. This was the law of the case. He fully agreed with the Honourable Gentleman (the Member for Sand wich), that the cultivation of cotton was of great im portance to our West Indian colonies. It was also of the greatest importance in the eye of humanity, because the labour and mortality of slaves was not Dew 89 gent 111 ibp cuttivation Qf mon as in dial' of stlfrar plantations. 6e a quest% o r polity, a l so, with regard to America, the cultivation of colonial cotton was of great importance, because the cotton of America was cultivated in those Southern States, whose inhabitants were most partial to France and hostile towards us. This was, the time, it ever, that America should be made to feel the effects of her hostility ; and that could not be done without making a severe pressure on American commerce ; and if we ever expected to bring that country to a proper sense of her injustice, it must be done by distressing her in every possible way. For these reasons he was clearly of opinion that it was of the highest importance to prevent the importation of American cotton. Lord CASTLEREAGH said, this was a subject in which very important interests were involved, and he must resist the motion of the Hon. Alderman, no the ground of the lateness of the Session, when ther• could not be sufficient time to attend to all the;e in terests ; when many individuals, who were deeply in. terested in the question, had gone into the country. The cotton manufacturers were the greatest body of manufacturers in the country, and'it.v.ould be unfair to them to take any step of this kind in their absence. He was not hostile to the principle of the motion ; but, for the reasons he now stated, he must o pm it. 11r. BARHAM supported the original motion, be. cause it was our duty to protect our own resources, in preference to those of an inveterate enemy. Sir \V. CURTIS contended, that our owe colonies could supply all the cotton which we want, and therefore he was astonished at hearing any proposi tion made to give our inveterate enemy an advantage over our own plotters. He would therefore vote ter the motien of his Hon. Colleague. Mr. BENSON shortly supported the motion. Mr. Alderman ATKINS replied. If this Ac:. should stand on the Journals, they would son tet. this coun:ry inundated with American co• t ()tong! t by rteutr a bottoms, to the great injtay of 11;lutli shipping. The - Howe then divided- , For the original mourn, 65- . -Agains, it, 6l—Majority for going into the Com mittce, 4.—The Committee wal sit on Thursday neat. ORANGE LODGES. Mr. WYNNE, in rising to call the attention of the House to the motion of which he had given notice, said, that he did not thjnk it necessary to r ffet any apology on account of the late period of the Session, AS it was the duty of the House at all _periods to watch overahe public peace. If new Societies bad lately been formed for purposes unauthorised by iaw, which had announced their existence in the moss public manner, and h-ad also promulgated their rules and regulations, it was necessary to take care that they should do no injury t, the public peace and tranquillity of the country. The exisence of such societies in this country was, as be conceived, directly in opposition to a specific Act of Parliament, which was passed in the year 1799, for the very purpose of putting down societies meeting for political purposes, an bound to each other by oaths and tests. This Act expressly mentioned divers societies existing, where unlawful oaths were administered, and where the Members bound themselves to secrecy and fide. lity, and knew one another by secret signs. By the meaning and true construction of this Statute, those oaths were to be cunsideted unlawful that were not authorised by law, and severe penalties were imposed on persons becoming members of such societies, who in certain cases were liable to transportation. There was a particular clause in this %lA, for excepting the Freemason Lodges from the operation of this Bill. Now, it appeared to him, that it did not signify what objects might be in view, or might be professed in the institution of the new societies which he spoke of. If there was an oath of secrecy, and the mem bers were to be bound together by secret bonds o union, those societies might be perverted to the worst of purposes, whatever were the objects which they at first proposed. A society of this nature, denomi nated a Grand Lodge, and having affiliated societies carrying the ramifications of the system throughout the whole kingdom, might be a machine powerful enough to produce the most important mischief to the State. In the late disturbances in the northern counties of England, it had been found, that even the hiendly societies which had been established un der the sanction of Parliament, for the most benero. lent purposes, were, in fact, made dangerous ma. chines for the purposes of the discontented. With respect tai the original institution of Orange Lodges, he should say little, as they began in Ireland, to which this Act did not extend. He should, how. ever, say, that the system rose there in times of great tumult and actual rebellion. Whether these societies had even in those times been productive of any be nefit he should not pretend to say, but this he would say, that since the restoration of that country to peace, he believed that the existence of those societies us Ireland were highly prejudicial to the safety of the country. He believed that in later times every Go , vernitent in Ireland had found those societies rather obstructions in their way. But whatever effect those societies might have in Ireland, he conceived that the attempt to introduce them at present into this coun• try was in the highest degree injudicious and ill-timed. If he had been hostile, instead of friendly to the Ca tholic claims, he should equally feel it a duty to cad the attention of the House to this subject. No person could be so short.sighted as not to see, that if Loose Orange Societies were formed in this country, ot! , er societies would soon be formed on contrary princi. ples, and that the peace of the country would be di rectly threatened from calling forth every description of party fury. Great pains had been taken to distri.. bute among the Members, a pamphlet containing rules and regulations of the Orange Lodges ; An a it appeared that another pamphlet of the same nature, from the same publisher, was to be sold so low as six-pence ibr the purpose of the most general circt, Winn. In this pamphlet the oath was thus stated : " I, A. B. do solemnly swear to defend his Majesty King George 111. his heirs and successors, re hog as At or tky top tort the Protestant asundtirry, the Gonad:rhos, alldiht LiSrl The phrase o Protestant ascendancy" WAS much in use in Ireland, but had hardly travelled to this coun try yeti it was, however, clear, that a man who took such an oath, would think himself at liberty to pet his own construction upon it. Suppose the Sovereir should think proper to sanction an Act tor the rea ct of the Catholich.this might appear to many Orange men as contrary to the Protestant ascendaacy, and therefore as absolving them from their allegiance.-- Ile most dangerous part of this system, however. Pnearld w bim to tie s that Orange Lode s were . ITOC 4. of a Ctrs lity Icel lug! coui tallpriu lrien sot 7, InGS the blig heat peat it,. dAni • cont rnor into the cuss ties oPPI Hot (Ha der each COSH, *long woui alone clubs Mow who Wel) chief tincti count bet•n Club three death &Bch were gall I year Into i M 46 ad lure of • issued, Mr the! so pntis ben is dined, took NI the Pn think tl