Star. — London, England, 1827-03-09 00:00:00

'ARLIAMENT. aD2I, Mama S. )UGH presented a Petition from Peterborough against the Catholic Claims. presented a similar Petition from a parish the table. , a Petition from the Bishop and praying that no further concessions an oppo‘ite nature, from a small who described themselves u the Europe, the Roman Catholic ,in the county of Roscommon. Christian charity in the sentiments dignified and Right Reverend Di just been read. There was not, In they said, which, In point of loyalty, • Noble Earl on the Woolsack. their Lordships to the following means my wish to make Lordships receiving the Petition, by. the Noble *now, but 1 not pass without an obser this Petition may be the .. a culptit to the bar of your lardships'HoOse ,as it will appear, if I am permitted us wad a speech, which has been made by an Hon. Member of soother House—(Order, order). My Lords, I mast explain, and I trust it may appear satisfactory to your Lordships, that it was very far from my inten-, *to make any allusion to any Member of the Imperiall flouseof Commons. No, my I,,ords, I allude to a speech, which has been made by a Member of the Irish Roman Catholic Parliament, whose speech was reported in his own newspaper, and is now in my hand ; with your Lordships permission I will read it : Mr. O'Connell rose to move a Petiti against the uncoil• stitutional conduct of Lord Lorton ; it was the indis psStle right of the subject to Petition. It was a right merted by the Revolution of 1668. King James was, hurried from his throne, for, as was said, attempting to interfere with that undoubted right of the subject. It was the very essence of the British Constitution, and the violation of it was put upon record, as a justifies tioa of a violation of allegiance ; it was for that that the people considered themselves entitled to cashier their Monarch. If the Parliament of England acted thus to wards a Monarch, they would be untrue to the pin. aisle, if they did not punish the Village Lord. The Village Tyrant may consider himself a great man in his own village, but when the Monarch on his throne, when, be to whom the original music was chanted of ' Goa save Great James our King,' was not above the law, shall the comparatively petty Village Lord escape with impunity? They shall bring the question before Par., Lament; they shall spew the injustice done, and can for redress. lie would move that it be referred to the Standing Committee to frame the draft of a Petition to be presented to the House cf Commons, complaining of the unconstitutional breach of the subjects rights committed by Lord Lorton.'—Now, my Lords, you have a specimen of the proceedings of the Roman Ca. thole Parliament of Leland, and truly laughable it would appear, were it not for the effect that these kind of denunciations have upon the minds and actions of a• deluded population, as the natural inference to be draws from this production must be, that the proscribed per son is a tyrant, an enemy to the people, and an op of their just rights.—My Lords, the origin of all this, was, that I recommended about 14 or 15 of my tenantryl to have nothing to do with the getting up of a Petition in Boyle, as there was a general one for the County, and which was to be presented by a Nobleman (the Duke of Buckingham) of the highest rank, which probably many of them bad signed, and which they acknow ledged. After a little more conversation, we parted in very good humour, and without any threat whatever on my part. They all agreed not to have anything to do with the meeting which had been announced for the following Sunday. This mating did take place, with the Coadjutor Priest in the Chair, assisted principally by two or three persons who had lodgings in the town, and no further connection with it. After some very gross abuse of me from the Priest and two others, this Petition was agreed to ; and I congratulate the Noble Baron on a sate deliverance of it. It is unnecessary to trout* your Lordships further than to say, that a re port was made to the Convention by the Emissaries which are employed in all parts of Iceland to excite mischief, and I was denounced accordingly. My Lords, it however strikes me that it may be as well to take this opporipnity of informing your Lordships, that since I had the honour of addressing this House, the most vim lent threats havedseen held out against me by different Members of the Roman Catholic Parliament, MOM particularly by Messrs. O'Connell and Lawless. The latter person, who is the Editor of a Newspaper, The /rieinten, says, at one of their late Sittings, in no very Parliamentary language, The speech attributed to Lord Lorton, and the assertion is it that the Protestants of Ireland are persecuted, is a lie, and that he (Mr., Lawless) if at th e B ar o f t h e H ouse o f L or d s , w ould at any expense tell the Noble Lord that he was a liar.' Now, my Lords, as you may perceive, this Member at the Romish Parliament is a candidate for notoriety; but it is not my wish to indulge him further than now doing, as really I am grown quite indifferent to any abuse that may be lavished upon me by suck a deo scription of persons. When they resort to any this else, I shall know how to d e f en d myse lf. My Lora. it behoves your Lordships to put an end to this mock Parliament (so similar to ' the National Convention' of former days), the existence of which has affixed in• delible disgrace on the Government of Ireland." Lord ELLEMOROUGH said, that Parliament had attempted to put down the Catholic Association. It had failed, because as long as the causes which pro. doted discontent and irritation in Ireland were suffered to exist, all such attempts must fail. If the Noble Viscount wished to give consequence to the contempti ble individuals of whose speeches he complained, he could not do it better than by the course which he had just adopted, Viscount LORTON said, that it was very easy for a Noble I.otd who never visited Ireland and knew no thing of its real state, to get up and speak as the Noble Bann had done, as if he knew more than a mar. *La had sojourned fur years in that country. Lc. d Pea Nat wee 10. 00 •""'"--""" "—".. —"--"----isvUMBZE 12,502.11 ars IMPERIAL PA 4 HOUSE OF LOI be lbe !Mop of PETER BORCO iss Dos and Chapter of Peterboroi ale the table. 10, lord COLCHESTER presentk It Y ow toasty of Kent.—. Laid on th sa Lord CARBRRY presented a Sa Daly of the Diocese of Cork, prat as k made to the Roman Catholics. to lard RING held a Petition of a p a rtiss d that oppressed class wh , ▪ mat poor and wretched people in ▪ idditann of the pariah of Boyle, 1 The Petitlonen displayed more 011 which t h e y opressed, than the digc times whose Petition bad just I* f x , t , s *Os word in what they sa ▪ WO sot have come from the Nobl Ike Petition having been read, Viscoont LORTON addressed tl elect t-- t "MT LORDS--II is by no toy opposition to your Lordsh which has been prepesmed by , se desirous that it should is , • mitts from me. My Lords, mans of bringing me as a e ▪ lerdsisips'House, as it will a ' to read a speech, which ha Member of another House—(( lipost explain, and I trust it to your Lordships, that it war tile to nuke any allusion to an Housed Commons. No, my L, a (wilt FRIDAY EVENING, MARCH 9, 1827. him go and spend there, not a short time, but a year or two, that he might have more information than what he now collected in the streets on his way to the House. What would he say, after this attempt to pat him down (Lord Lorton) if he should hear of a massacre in Ireland ? He (Viscount L.) had taken the mildest pos sible notice of the conduct of the individuals by whose speeches he had been insulted. He had received many letters from Ireland wishing him to bring them to the tier of the House, hut this he should not do. Lord ELLENBOROUGH said that he did not speak on theory or as a stranger. He had visited Ireland , more than once, and had spent seven months there at a time. He had been present at what the Noble Lord called the Convention, and he had heard the speeches .made at that place, and he knew of nothing more con temptible than those speeches, with the exception of the speakers themselves. Nothing could tend to give either of them more consequence, be repeated, than the course followed by the Noble Viscount. Viscount LORTON would saris*, ammo& heCos awe that if be spoke to eternity Ils,llM4ssld con vince the Noble Baron. • himi charge the duty which his oath as a Peer ment imposed upon him, by recommending the best use of his discretion he conceived conducive to the advantage of Ireland. The Padden was then !Aldan the Cable. PROMISSOnT MOM. •Ild ALEX. GRANT and others from the Commons dopy of the Report of the Committee of that Rouse af Promissory Notes in Scotland and Ifeland.—•Laid ordered to be printed. nt DUDLEY and WARD presented Petition vent smdreds in the County of Suffolk against. =dr umming Wolverhampton for, an alteration in the Laid• the table. Lord REDESDALE was understood to say, that such language and acts as those of the Association, if not repressed, might involve the country in civil war. The LORD CHANCELLOR. should have observed his promise, not to trouble their Lordships with his opinion on the Catholic Claims till they were fully before them (and he trusted that the notice of a motion on that subject, for Thursday next, would not be abandoned. in order that they might decide the ques tion, and know what they had to do), had not his Noble Friend. (if the Noble Baron (Lord King) would allow him to call him so, and he doubted it, for no one had acted with more hostility towards him than the Noble Baron) bad not that Noble Lord said, that the Petition was drawn up in such a manner, that even the Noble Earl on the Woolsack might have written it himself. Now, there was not one word in it which he could ap prove. As to what passt.d in the Irish Convention, unless it amounted to a breach of privilege of that House, their Lordships had nothing to do with it.-- Indeed, he was not aware that they knew exactly what passed in that Association. He. had seen in a news paper, but that was not an authority on which the" House could proceed, that it had been remarked in that Association, with respect to the speech of a Right Rev. Prelate in that House, that he was a liar. Now, if Noble Lords would print their speeches, which was in itself a breach of the privileges of the House, the obser vations made on those publications did not fall within the cognizance of the House, as, if they had applied to the immediate proeeeJingsof the House itself. But be did not believe on the authority of newspapers alone, that these things had passed in the Convention which were represented to have occurred. He did not believe it, because, if evidence of it could have been laid before Juries of she country, it would have been tried whether it was fit that the Legislature and the individuals be longing to it should be treated in the manner in which they were represented to have been treated ? The Marquis of LANSDOWN, atter the allusion made to his projected motion, thought it his duty to state, that he should give ample notice to-morrow to their Lordships, of the course which he intended to take with respect to bringing or abstaining from bring. ing his motion forward. He hoped that Noble and Learned Earl would not - think it want of respect if he (the Marquis of Lansdown) said, that the Noble and Learned Earl was the very last man whom he should wish to ; ionsult as to the propriety of bringing for ward his motion or not. He should trust to his own sound discretion to determine what course it would be proper for him to adopt, and he should distinctly ex plain the grounds en which he should make up his mind to act. The Earl of CLANCARTY had always regretted that an Act of Parliament bad been passed to put down the Catholic Association, as he thought that the Common Law of the country was competent to do so, if the Magistrates had dune their duty. He differed from the Noble and Learned Earl on the Woolsack in thit he thought that at least as mtch passed in the Convention as met the public eye in print. That the Law Officers of the Crown in that country should not have noticed those proceedings, was a matter on which he could give no explanation. But he must say, that be should be sony to be connected with those Law Officers of the Crown, as these was something extra ordinary in the manner in which they looked upon the discharge of their duty. After a few words from Lord Km and the Earl of KIWOSTON, Viscount CLIFDEN said, that the late fatal vote in the other House had been waited for with anxiety, and would be received with exultation, by the Apostolic faction in Fiance and Spain. He called upon their Lordships to reflect, what would be the situation of this country, with Ireland in its present state, if, as there was every probability, a war should be com menced with Spain, which must lead to one with France and America? _ . The Earl of MOUNTCASHEL regretted that a British Peer should be. found, and especially an ab sentee, to echo itithe House the sentiments of the De magogues of the Association, and thus to encourage them to use language which might be followed by acts fatal to the peace of the country. He also denied that the Catholics in Ireland were as numerous as they were represented to be. They only amounted, at most, to five millions, and the Protestants and Presbyterians to two millions, so that there were only two Catholics and au half to one Protestant, a propottion which ought not to frighten the latter out of their lives, if they stuck together, and were firmly attached to the King and Constitution. The Marquis of LANSDOWN complimented the Noble Earl on his arithMetical vwer, and on the very novel light which he had thrown on the suhj ct. He had put the Hoisse at least in possession of a striking proof of the importaner of the Catholic Association, for he had'clearly shown that its object, which he had formerly stated was to close his mouth, hid completely f a il e d—( A laugh): He (the Marquii of Linsdown) should at all times be happy to hear the Noble Earl's ,entiments, but still should claim the right, in all hu mility, and even in the Noble Earl's presence, to dis- PRICE OF FOREIGN CORN. The Order of the Day having been read is I S a Committee to inquire into the price "Sign Corn, The Earl of LAUDERDALE began by , she House that the Noble Earl opposite (Earl bad promised not to refuse a Committee, laity should be limited to the price at which 1.. might be grown and imported. He could not .anticipated that the motion which he tit to make should be so necessary, for ' acquainted with the grand seiret of the Laws. The Home were now in possession of and it appeared that a duty was proposed which had never before been adopted here, other country endowed with the power of reason. Noble Earl then entered into the details of the with which our Readers are already perfectl , quainted. He contended that the gradation should have been fixed according to the price abroad, and not according to that of British FOr that purpose information ought to have cured, in order to establish a 'scale to suit the peke the different places from whence corn would ported. But even then the nature of a single might render the whole labour nugatory. Our tors had seen the difficulty of a graduated was resolved for the present age of theories , one. Until the existing Government had been and some men had become members of ltv fond of experiments, he did not think that entered the head of any one individual to i a duty. Let it be done, and let any of . him the data on which tenants could offer He should not oppose the measure if honestly and conscientiously believe that pleading the interest of the manufacti asore strongly than those of the landowners. i * idea that the landed interest could ever monopoly. Could the five hundred and silt) tenants in the country, some with, and some capital, combine together so as to produce r.— nopoly ? Let their Lordships look back at history there was a complete prohibition of foreign grain there a monopoly at home? He contended F be couch easier for great merchants, who nommen* as die laadbokisso, to cosibine, ing the price of corn from 60s. to 70s. to themselves the introduction of 1,000,000 grain duty free. This they could renew whenever interest required it, so that in fact the effect sent plan would be to allow grain to come countries free of duty. This was a most extraordinary time to try such as experiment. In INS, home price acorn was 695. his Majesty's Speech ed, that there never had been a period at which 1 and classes had been so satisfied and happy. the price of corn was only 535. experiments , made under the pretence of saving the country . monopoly! The plan held out a mere semblan , securing to agriculturists a protecting price according to the scale of duties, when the abroad should be 255. it could be brought t tish market at 555. when 50s. at 565. when and it was only when it should be 40s. an price for the Continent, that the protecting would be attained. The weekly average put an end to all import trade, and wouL supply to be entirely drawn from warehoused perpetuating the warehousing system which fatal to all branches of Commerce. He had the last Corn Bill, and bad forborne to press jections to it, because he had been its-ured by the Noble Earl at the head of his Majesty' ,that it was to form the lasting law of the count peace. The present plan had been called Lora, measure. Were that Noble Earl present, and much rejoice if he was, be would tell he did not believe that the Bill had with him, though D evil communications good manners." - Übe wanted evidence of thi took for it on the Journals of the House of C 1814, where some traces of the origin of tote seen. He had seen this plan itself a twelves It had been lodged in Mr. Huskisson's hand it had been got out of them, to become thought in Lord Liverpool's brain, he reall , conceive. Perhaps, in order to screen the Lion from the unpopularity which it was produce, its authorship had been thrown tunate colleague. When a certain indi, boasted that b= had-extended his hand and world to take off our cotton manufacture said nothing about Lord Liverpool. The - his own work. But now that unpopulari encountered, the whole was thrown on the But he was convinced that that Noble much reverence for the Constitution and , of the country to have embarked in a course ments like those which had been tried, if' left to himself. Let their Lordships recollect cotton manufacturers had been encouraged their goods. Let them remember the Silk Act passed three or four years ago to allot sion of foreign silks, on paying an ad vale, ens SO per cent. Let them also recollect that was smuggled through the House, to rep, prevent the effects of that, by laying the di and allots ing. no importation except to L' per invent of Free Trade had therefore failed as it would in V e present, and in all best system would be to prohibit the impoi Corn at all times, but to lodge in the Go - authority of opening the ports whenever sawed, as they and Parliament 'oval, . Per Cent. • - 4 7' . ... a1 .,. '-, s /i;) 4 - , • ,• . s. .-, 'i!"1; • '..., . ziiS . • : J'.......,„ .. - -,...... , . . , ” • Ai,. 1,, - A ufsz. r4FIEITITIOX .- t . .. 10r . 40 44, : ; t ._ Az uf zei tefie. . . . t • [PRICE SEVENPENCE. 1 er of Parlia- dify the supply according to the necessity Of the ease - ling what in It had been said that Government holding the scales 1 to be most between two parties had given the balance of principle . 1 to trade, and that of price to Agriculture. If there was any meaning in that foolish expression, it *as that the landed interest had been driven out of the strong rams b roug h t hold of ancient usage, and that though it had the Rouse on the balance of price, it was one which might aft •rwerds be .1 d•-Laidon dos lowered and taken away, the principle having been al- meal from ~_ together abandoned. He trusted that the House would t i „ dam a m , t h e make a firm stand again s t the meagre. If it should l t t Cara Laws.... lower the price of corn 14s. the difference to the farmer 4 would be, that, between creditably maintaining his i family and perfect beggary, whilst the manufitcturer's for appoint- gain would not eve n ; Amount to one additional half. i + price of Fo- penny a day. It was, however, impossible to decide upon all those points without p ro p er i nf orma tion.' He I y reminding should theref ore move , th at a S e l ect C omm i ttee b e r an Bathiust) appointed t o enquire into the p r i ce a t w hi c h forties I ie, if the in- grain might be shipped in foreign ports, the eparettekt of rhich foreign such grain, and the price at which such grain world be mid not then imported into this Country. he was now Earl BATHURST was convinced that the Noble rhe was not Earl would regret having used an express'oftwhkh had he new Corn escaped from him. He had thought proper to say of the whole, that the present measure had been thrown by his Ma• id tin a plan jesty's Ministers*on an unfortunate C./league who•was ere, or in any not really its author. What right had the N dale Earl 1 reason- The to make such an assertion? Could their Lordships have of the plan forgotten, that before Christmas, his /44 , .b1e A iend (the erfectly ac- Earl of Liverpool) had announced that he should sub. nof the duty mit a proposition midi/rely to the Corn Laws ? 'and rice of corn that after the Recess he had given notice that he rand - I. ish wheat.— open the subject to their Lordships at the same time that et been pro' it was done in 'the other . House—an unuseal course, t tie price at but one which shewed the-interest which he took in a I would be im- measure which had been the (Nett of his deepest ingie season consideration. And yet the Noble Earl asserted • Our antes- that he was not its author, and that his Colleagues scale, and it had taken advantage of I r i s lying on the bed cf es to propose sickness to throw the responsibility of it \ upon i been formed, him. He trusted, he repeated, that the Noble Earl i it.who were would regret haying made a charge . which was SO tit had ever totally without foundation. With respect to the Ire,. ) impose such lion before the House, he should not follow that Noble of them ' tell 1 Earl through his various ca l cu l at i o n s , because, as be offer rents.— did not Wend to oppose the motion, he thought it pie. he did riot ferable to postpone his observations till the Report of hat he was the Committee should be produced to the House, and cturers still the whole question should come to be consideted.--. s. He refuted With respect to the principle of a graduated scale of ter acquire a duties, however, he would shew that it wait not novel, Ixty thousand as it had been represented. At the time of Charles IL . one without, and up to 1755, there was no prohibition, but a*probi• i suck a mo- bitory duty. In 1776 a prohibitory duty was again history when imposed, without becoming first acquainted with the :n grain; was price of grain in all foreign ports. By the very ACtof that it w ould _ Ist% when thcprice was between 70s and SG} &WO • I were not so was a duty of 11116. and es. for the 'first three noentlers and by Tab' embus be all 17. bit if-tide price was *novo leis. to secure for the dory was only ss. What was that but a gra- 0 quarters of dusted scale of duties proceeding on the same prim. .Irl /henever their ciple as the present measure, though not carried to the et of the Fe' same extent? As all the Petitions sent to the House asked me from all; that this Act should be maintained, it was clear that the extraordinary agriculturists were satisfied with the protection which • \ IS, when the it afforded . them, and yet, what was that protection, • tech had stab. when compared with that furnished by the proposed hich all ranks measure? By the Act of 1822, foreign wheat might y. Now that be imported when the price was above 70s.and under ents most be 80s. with a duty of 17s. for the first three months, untry from a and the importation must coutinue during that period. . a , semblance of New, if in consequence of the abundance of the foreign ce of 60s. for, supply, the home price should immediately fall to 50s. price of corn or even lower, still the importation must continue at a into the Bri- duty of 175.; and if foreign corn might be imported, as . in S4s. at Stis. the Noble Earl had sird, at 255. the price in the market, an exortaant together with the existing duty, would not be more than . , price of 60s. 425. Was that the complete protection which the Pe i- ' • e would also tioners and the Noble Earl were so anxious to retain ? mid leave the The Noble Earl feared that merchants might combine Ised corn, thus to raise the price of the market so as to allow free lat- ish was most portation ; but by the bill of 1815. as there was no gra- s rad supported duated scale of defies, if corn was a little below 89s. the ress many ob. ports were closed for three months, however necessaty ed at the time 1 ' a supply might have been ( and if it kept sixpence ity'sTreasury, above 80s. they were opened' for ft ee and unbounded natty du inpo importation for three whole months, although the price ' ndLiverpool s t • - and he would of the home market might have fallen the next day to k' 20s. per quarter. Then merchants might have an in- ell him that tercet in combining to cause the ports to be opened for ad originated three months, but it was considerably less, when instead ins corrupted of a *tee months' average, importation or duties would this, he sh o uld be regulated by a weekly one. i . Commons ibis plan we in:e Earl ROSSLYN conceived that with the warehousing i ~ system still in operation, one day would su ffi ce for the Ileamnth a g — merchants to inundate the market with foreign corn. tads, and how and it would be the easier for them, even by hoarding e an original • up the home grain, to raise the price up to free imports. pat ) ally could n , calculated to Lion, as they would have to keep it for only a week in- . , e Administra - 1 stead of three months. He thought that the measure a on an ad"' proposed tended more than any other to create fiuctua- Idividual had lion in i 1 ti the country. i and created a The Earl of LAUDERDALE knew the feelings of 1 the Noble Earl oppo site too well not to be sure that at ctures, he had e act was then all events he should have thrown the responsibility of rity was to b e any measure upon an unfortunate colleague. He (the se Noble Earl. Earl of Lauderdale) had only drawn a contrast be- Earl had too tween the conduct of certain individuals in one aim- h tion and their conduct in another, and bad left it to the arse e House to draw an inference. If the Noble Earl bad if he had been i 1 , t prosperity exports- srity drawn that inference it was his own act; and if he (the Alec' how our Earl of Liverpool) had committed himself upon any aged to export point which might incur further consequences, be bad ilk Trade. the only to follow a great example, to print his speech, and l ow t h e a d m i ts . leave out the offensive passage. . I I brews duty of After a few observations from Lord REDUDALII and at another Bill the Earl of Rosteattat, ;pair, or rather Lord BEXLEY stated that his Noble Friend (the Jut,' on weight, E.rl of Liverpool) had announced his intention to ~n doo. The ex- bring forward the present measure so framed with • iin thatbranch, great deliberation by himself, and not as arising from r, others. The tie suggestion of any other person. At the same time, , . • . importation of as communications naturally took •placc between the ;overnment the Members of his Majesty's Government, the plan was of , . re it might be course imparted to others. It was possible that the her would mo- measure might come out of the other House in • some- - - - . •