Star. — London, England, 1829-05-02 00:00:00

ME ,; . • district where it was established. He admitted some difficulty existed in devising a remedy for the distress which had fallen upon the silt trade. But he had never expected that. in the increased and increasing pressure under which it suffered, so serious a reduction should be made in the only means by which it could _receive protection. ..It wet net pptble for tint to pddetrity" the dismay and consternation which pervaded the tam try upon the announcement of the measures which his' Majesty's Government had brought forward upon this subject. The first fruits of this system were exhibited in the city which he (Mr. Fyler) represented, where there were four thousand looms out of employment. One manufacturer alone ordered 200 looms to step if the proposed measure should pass into a law. This stale ef stairs was not confined to Coventry; and if the measure before the House should be emitted, it would, beyond doubt, prevent the continuance of large numbers of manufacturers, and throw thousands more of operatives out of employment. Now, with regard to the arguments which had been used by the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite in support of his measures: The Right Hon. Gentleman said that the causes of the distress of the'silk trade were the exten sion of the manufacture and speculative over-trading. N.sw, as to the extension of the manufacture, he (Mr. Filer) should only say, that the immediate tendency of the new measures. Was to increase it. The drawback which had been allowed on goods manufactured in this country had produced a similar effect, as the amount of duty so returned was always employed in extending the manufacture. With regard to the ovet-trading, when the duty upon imported French silks had been redtiCed, the only chance which the English manufac tater had of being able to compete with the French co,tsisted in his throwing an additional quantity of goods into the market : but although the master ma u• facturer was able to do this, the operative could only get his Cornier wages by working eighteen hours a day. This fact he mentioned only to show that the manufac biters had not been influenced by any falsestr wild spitit rf specula - iort in preparing the manufactures for the market. With regard to the city of Coventry, he ad. noted the silk trade may have extended there, and that there had been a beneficial substitution of one species of machotery lot another; but he could not admit that the improvement was the result of the change which had taken place in the law. The trade had been gradually isiciea . itpg from 1815 to 1824. when the new treasures were introduced. Competition may, perhaps, have im proved the trade, but before the improvement could pro. duteany advantage, it would be necessary to show the manufacturers alive they were to dispose of the goods which they had produced in an improved state. But, if the extension of the manufacture had been a cause of the evili,the remedy which the Right Hen. Gentleman proposed was a very exttaurdinaty one, namely, to let mid this country the silk goods of India. It had been stated. at the close of the last Session, in that House, th tt - ships were in India loaded with silk goods, and reatoy to pour them into this country, if the measure then belnie the House should pass into a law. It was easy to see what effect would be produced upon the prevent depressed state of the silk trade by deluging the market with the silk goods of India. Another remedy Rich. had been proposed was, to seduce the duty on French ecsods. It was at present five shillings and three .pence, or thirty-two pet cent. and it was proposed to reduce it to an ad valorem duty of twenty-five per cent. It was said that France was overstocked with silk goods, and for' the star cause which had over stocked the m kets of this country.. This may per haps be in part true; bet France would be in a mach wove condition it she had not the power of pouring her goods into thii country ; and it was not to be doubted that it the present measure were :o pass into a law, but that n I only would the import of French goods be vastly increa-ed from France. but also from India. The reduction of the import duty, therefore, could only involve the manufacture in greater distress. and aggra vate. it possible, the evils under which the manufac. tote?s laboured. The first result of the measure would be to depteciate the value of the stock in hand. and to diminish the profits of those who were now only able to maintain their existence by labouring fourteen hours a daY.. It, this measure were to turn out a relief, it would be a relief to France, and not to us—to France, who had refused to allow us that free trade which we had p-rmitted to her—to France, who watches with the most steady and vigilant jealousy the silk of her own country, superior to that of any other country, even 6f Italy—who watches that silk, and prevents by severe, be had almost mid penal laws, its introduction into England. The principles upon which the Govern. went were, this country ought to proceed in matters of trade in the foreign trade a full reciprocity. and in the home trade a fair and equal Competition. It was suggested that the custom-house officers would, in the case of the duty which was to be imposed, have the option of assessing it either ad sutlers= or by weight; but the advantage to be derived from this would be entirely inconsiderable, as the whole amount of the re• duction would be-such as to afford the manufactuiet only"' protection of three shillings and sixpence. or two and a half per cent. on the whole manufacture. There was smother part of the Bill to which he was less in• cloned to object—he meant th.t part which ptovided for the limitation of the number of ports, and which he con sidered to be II good principle as far as it went; but this advantage:whatever it may be, was more than counter. balanced by the reduction of the duty. It was to the manufacturers very immaterial whether the goods w ere brought into the couhtry by smuggling, or under a duty which legalized the importation, and was so low as to afford theimanutactutet here no protection. The di-tinction which had been made upon this subject was one without a difference, and the consequence of either state of the case would be to fill the Engiish ma ket with silk goods of foreign manufacture. Another point made .in theapeech of the Right Hon. Gentleman was on the subject of the drawback-. His predecess.4 (Mr. .Huslitison) had said that his object (in whi:b he entirely tailed) was to procure for this country an export trade. Rut if the Right Hon. Gentleman would look it hi. own figures he would easily see the impossibility of this counts', in the present depressed state of the silk manufacture, exporting to any amount. But •even with the drawbacks there was 10s. 63. in the pound against the manufactures of this country in. theforeign trade. The Member for Dover had said. with some degree of exultation (ieteriing to the import of raw and thrown silk), that the quantity of raw material ins potted into - the country was the same as before. and, if the quantity of . raw Islamist was the same, the gum - City of labour employed in the manufacture must be the same. Another Hon. Gentleman. the Member for M mime, who was very fond of figures, said that every ounce of. raw material imported into the country went to the mill, and.was, there manufactured by English I.bour But Abele Honourable Members had uot taster into consideration the quantity of .stock ip baud, whsch was last year mu considerable. 's Re sides, these wets, many fabrics of silk iq which . thrown ulka were not used at all. There were a l so ls maw ether imanafactons, as a crush% description , of fine eased, in which • silk was employed::: admitted that, notwithstanding the large deductions to be made on these heads, a great cpiantity went to the mill, but it was one thing to find .employment. and another to be employed with profit. In many cases there had been no return at all, though the persons em ploying the capital bad continued to manufacture, from. the difficulty of changing the 'course in which their efforts had been so long directed. He might say more upon this subject, bat he was afraid of exceeding the limits which be had prescribed to himself. He could nor, however, help, in conclusion, impressing upon the mind of the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite the im. portance of the measure which he was about to intro. duce. He should take leave to read an extract from a letter which he had that moraing received from the Overseers of the poor at Coventry, who stated that the paces' rate, which was last year fourpenee or sixpence, would, in May next, be a shilling and eightpence. The Hon. Member next referred to a report drawn up at the request of the Right Hon. Gentleman .by a most re spectable manufacturer (he alluded to Mr. Jocelyn), who stated that the measure now in progress would bring positive ruin upon every branch of the silk trade. He would recommend the Right Hon. Gentleman to re flect upon what men . urged by desperation may be capable of committiog. There did not exist a more loyal, dutiful. and Michela body of men than the silk weavers; but their distresses had been so•great as to excite them to acts of violence; which had rendered it tieceisary to call out the military at Macclesfield.— (Here the Hon. Member read an extract of a letter from Maccleiteld, in which it was said that the town was in the greatest confusion; that 5,009 persons paraded the streets; that a troop of horse and a company of loot had been sent for into the town to keep the people quiet, and oppress them still more). He dreaded that, great as was the present distress of the silk weavers, the pre sent measures would aggravate them still more— " And in the lowest deep a lower deep, Still threatening to devour them, opens wide, To which the hell they feel would wem a Heaven." In conclusion the Hon. Member protesteJ against the proposed measures, and moved as an amendment, that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House on that day six months. Mr. G. ROBINSON rose to second the motion. The Honourable Member said that, if he was not deeply impressed with the importance of the subject, be should am obtrude himself upon the House after the result of the debate which had taken place upon this subject the ether night. The measures now proposed by his Ma jesty's Ministers were so far from affording relief to the silk trade, that they would aggravate all the evils under Wrich it at present was oppressed. He should not en ter into any details upon the present occasion, but only observe upon some of the mistakes into which Hon. Members had fallen upon the other side of the question. The silk manufacturers and their advocates had been as much misunderstood and misrepresented, as if they Aught protection and advantages beyond those which were enjoyed by the other classes of the community. This was not the case, and yet the principle of exclusive pen l tection hid been adopted and legislated on in Perlis. meat in the case of the agriculturists. He was free NI, admit that, after the long and expensive war in wind' the country had been involved, the agriculturists wow entitled to protection. and they had obtained it by law which amounted to an absolute prohibition, in ear tain circumstances, of the importation of foreign cons into this country. But he only mentioned this fact foe the purpose of showing that, in the case of the land holders, the scale of import duties bad been so con structed as to amount to an absolute, positive, and him ide protection by the sca le of duties adopted for thetas:6 pose of preventing a large quantity of foreign corn from being brought in. The distinction between bilk- mad aviculture was this—that although the Legislature, by the Act ot 18%; provided fir -the latter an adequate' protection, that very Circumstance threw the former into a state of distress=, which distress the proposed measure would much increase. The Right Honourable Gentleman asserted, that one of the grounds on which be brought forward this measure, was to protect the manufacturer against the smuggler. As he found that the smuggler could introduce foreign goods with a charge upon them ot twenty-six per cents the Right Honourable Gentleman proposed that the duty should be lowered to 25 per gent. one per cent. less than the charge under which the smuggler now ran the goods. But must it not be evident to tt.e Right Hon. Gentleman that that could afford no protection to the hominsans facturi-t ?On the coin - tory. the aigumeut of Right Hon. Gentleman went to thit. "1 cahoot protect you against the smuggler, and so I let the legal trader also in upon you." The Right Hon. Gentleman was, however, quite mistaken. it he supposed this measure would prevent smagglipg. The Right Hon. Gentleman bad truly stated, that there was a set of smugglers who paid insurances of 26 per tent. to cover all the risks of their illicit trade. But there was another class of smugglers who refused to conform to that plan; and whose ventures, though small in gamy separate trans• action, amounted to a large aggregate. He (Mr. Robin son) was appielunsi.e, therefore, that the amount et foreign goods which had been punted into the country dosing the last three years, though increasing annually one hundred and twenty thou and p-undr, would be most destructively augmeri , ed by thiißrll. He contended that there was nothing unfair or unreasonable on the part of those engaged in the silk trade to ask for a piobibi. tion of foreign goods, unpalatable as that word might sound. Toe nianulaciute of silk goods, portable and valuable as it wa-, admitted of most estensive smug gling; and fiat circumstance, added to the right of the sulk manufacturer to say, that as Parliament bad recog nised the principle of protection in tile corn trade, they were emitted to adequate protection in their trade. It was true that prohibition would not put an end to sniuggliug; but the facilities for smuggling were gie.tly increased by the difficulty of rectgnizing and distorigui,hing smuggled - goods, occasioned by the admission of goods legally. The Right Hon. Gen limas had instituted a comparison between the quan tity of raw and thrown silk, imported in the five years before 1824. and the quantity imported in the five years after 1826. But that was not a fair mode of comparison, the last two years of the kismer of those periods being years of prohibition. The comparison ought to have been bet seen the years 1823 1824, and 1826, and the years 1826, 1847, and 1828. The Right Hon. Gentleman. ought also to take into consideration the stock of, raw nod thrown silk in the hands Cf the silk manufacturer not manufactured, amounting t0.8013,0001b5. It bad been stated that the number of spindles at work had increased since 1823 ; this was true, but they only worked three or four days a weekb the owners preferring such a partial use of them to shutting them up, throwing the workmen on the poor rates. The working time of the manufacturers had been increased horn ten tortes six teen hours a day. It site bad cimdition of the labourers had arisen from the natural fluctuations of trade, he ,would be willing to leave the evil to cure itself; but it proceeded front factitious and artifieinl causes, aad the r Hems would be compelled to atteacrto them, for they were of the greatest poseilde importance, and if they did `Lack - focie)hemselves upon the attention of ParliaMeni in feletrgelo the silk trade,.they would with respect !o some other branch of industry. Hew as filled with dis may wheil . he saw the Government inclined to abandon the silk trade to its fate.. His own constituents. the glove-makers of Worcester, were suffering in an equal de ma g n i utc t" turers himr coul " dob i ta tl in n n a o le re l rie n f t Lo b : 0 4 0 (b l:ro bin' s; what hope could they entertain? He did not decry political economy. He thought it an honour to be a I political economist; but he had to complain that the abstract principles of the science were applied to eases to which they did not belong. It had been argued that the country was prosperous because the esports bad in creased; but it was a well known fact. that the exports had yielded no returns; mud in cases where they had made returns. they were too small to induce a ieperi. tion of the adventures. Our traders were met in every market by foreign competitors, who did not obtain an immediate advantage over them, but who were making great progress to that end. It was, therefore, impru dent to abagdon the silk trade to competition. He had never said - that the regulations of 1t26 had occa sioned the distresses of the silk trade; be had only maintained that they had greatly aggravated them. Other trades did not cunie forward with complaints. for they were not so mulch rivalled by foreigners, and they were willing to wait the result of the exerti-ms of the silk manufacturers. The present laws *mild not have the desired effect. for .he felt convinced that they would.aggravate all the evils of which ever y class connected with the silk trade complained. The increase of distress since 1826 was alone a sufficient case to demand inquiry. and he was convinced t•-at very soon the distress would be so great as to compel the House to grant ingisity, whether they would et not. The corn growers had seemed - theins, Ives bg, protection, and they ought not to leave others tM competition. A proposition to fix a minimum of the price of labour had been justly rejected; but a mini mum had been fixed upon the price of coin. The. Chancellor of the Exchequer would soon be unable to raise the revenue, and the country would be ruined if the (manufacturing interests we e not protected. LoreGode rich, in 1824, had said that the progress of our Ambassa dors in forming commercial arrangements with foreign Courts were impeded by foreigners ohj.cting to our re strictive system. He had said, that it all mar kets were opened the goods of this country would drive all others out of the field. This had been completely falsified, and the country had been deceived. It was impossible for the men thrown out of the silk trade to get employment in any other, and it was no light matter to throw five hundred thousand poor labourers into a state of distress. He would apply to the subject the well known lines; " Princes and Leeds may lowish or may fade, A breath can make them, as a breath has made; But a bold peasantry, their country's pride, When mice destroed, can never be supplied." Mr. Alderman WAITHMAN said that these male tonal* people had been subjected to the most cruel experiment that ever was tried upon so large a body, and that it bad altogether failed in producing any thing but the most dreadful distress that a large body of people had ever suffered. With respect to the Bill itself, be would venture to say that it would produce no one of the results which were anticipated by those who introduced it. On the contrary, it would increase smug gling, and chase the otter ruin of all parties engaged in the trade. It had all the disadvantages of prohi bition without approaching on soy thing that could be called free trade. The Hon. Member then adverted to his experience in trade to show that the present distress bore no resemblance to the revulsion: and fluctuations de pending upon speculation. He believed there never was a greeter act of injustice done to a deserving body of atea than the master in which the silk manufattuiers of this country bad been treated. He would fearlessly say, that to prohibition they must come at last, whatever expedients might be resorted to for tempisrary purposes. Much had been said of the increase of the consumptioa ci spirits in order to show the prosperity of the country, but Mr. Burke had remarked that gin was food for the mind, and that philosopher observed, that whenever, people were distressed in their mind and in difficultiei they had recourse to spirits. The Right Hon. Presides, of the Board of Trade bad quoted the official value of the exports for the last year, and contended that they were 12,000.000 i. more than in the year before, but the fact was, that the amount of the export war 16. 0 00•000 1 . ii real value less than the year before. TheHon.Aldermum then made some remarks on the difference between the official and the declared value. A few years ago the difference between the official and declared value was about 25 per cent. in amount in favour of the latter, while in 1826 it was one-half more in favour of the former. And it was easy to account for the increase in the consumption of the raw material. The fact am that the snicks made trete of the coarser kind, and they required a vast quantity of the material, which was worked up by power-looms to be injury of 'arts. sans; but the new system worked in every respect the same. With respect to corn, they had been told to take their food from the foreigner, and he would take their manufactures. Btu the truth was not so. Corn to the amount of 5.000.0001. bad been importedond no cor responding exports had taken place; and he confessed that that fact had altered his mind somewhat upon the subject of the Corn Laws. He no longer thought it would be right to strip the landowner of protection. It was monstrous to suppose that it could be for the good of this cuoury to adopt what was called a liberal sys• tem without reference to circumstances. In support of this view he quoted the remarks of the late Marquis of' Lantdosse and Mr. Fox with reference to our commerce with France, and asserted that it was left for the philo sophers of the present hour to conduct commerce with out a view to an equivalent for any concession made. Such had been toe opinion of Adam Smith. That writer. moreover designated the silk trade as the last branch of our manufactures which could afford to be dealt with on the principles of free trade. The conduct also of Mr. Pitt had been in scent dance with the views of Adam Smith. In proof of this, the Honourable Gentleman quoted a speech of Mr. Pitt with reference to France and America. Both those countries most wisely mains Wised their prohibitory systems. He apologised to the House for the time he had occupied, and concluded by declaring it to be his opinion that it was necessary for the good of the country and the silk trade to oppose the measure under consideration. The persons employoill in the silk trade were the first who were injured; but the mischievous consequences must soon be felt by the people at large. The question was not a party one; it had been throat upon the Government by those who occupied the side of the House on which he sat, and most sincerely did he hope that his Majesty's Ministers would think seriously of the subject, and give way to the feelings of those immediately concerned, and-the country in general. Sir H. PARNELL hoped that his Majesty's Minis ,rers would pursue thecourse oa this subject which they commenced in 1824. The Hon. Member for Worces ter seemed to look on the sy stem o f free trade as a mere chimera, bat he (Sir Henry Parnell) thought that the %afore of the country depended on it ; and every p r. son who studied the subject was of a similar opinio n; it was not fair to throw the entire weight of t hi s measure on his Majesty's Government ; the fact a ft that Ministers were influenced in their conduct by the sense of the nous?. No question ever cam, before the House which required more attention t t „, ll ' ' pt. - Veal& Men; thaii theSilliTrade; it was aniplYlnvet. tigated into before the Committees of that House, an d the House of Lords, some years ago; the result of kelt a conviction chat the course pursued by Ministers was the most elpedietst. The worthy Alderman had onto that the Silk Trade was on a decline since 1816. 1 , 1 at the same time he admitted that the consumptio n was increased. In answer to those who asked for remedy to the present distress, he would say that Parliamet t should not be called on for a remedy. Th e manufacturers brought it on themselves by over.r rn di eg. and consequently they had the remedy in their own hands. It being sufficiently established that over-trading , was the cause of distress. it might be asked what was the cause of the cores trading ? The fact was, wh en t h e i subject was first brnached in It 24. the uranulacturn imported above a million of pounds of raw material en speculation. becau-e they thought that with a protection ef So, they could undersell ilie foreigner in the market. They overlooked the effeci of competition at honie,b,,. ing the f reigner only in • errs. Tr c Hon. Alderman had nil taken the sense of the passage in Mem Smith's book. which he read. Adam Smith did n*.t recommend ro ., hibition.only that when a change eid t .ke place it should he gradual. He had no doubt that it the silk trad e had been originally left to its. If in this couhtry auk. out any protection, it *mid now be in a more with. ing state than it was., le a couotr y where Nonni so. s dear, the circum s tance- or labour should not be %eon .ieJ from the dearite.s. for capital generally abounded in 4 counlty where labour was dear, which was no ttiflN advantage. He waist iined that his Hight fl snonrabjr Friend had the sense of the House ansint the country along with him in the •course which be was mussin g , arid he lived that Government /would in the nest year extend the principle still further: Mr. AT r WOOD opposed the Bill. In his wpi n i.. s . the Government of the country Old nr t posses cis ut knowledge of the sus ject. Fur his pat t.he eu n ia never approve of that doAtiere which on the ore toad excited speculation, and on the next hand threw censure on the maitufactuer for over-trading. It was quite ridiculous to suppose that this or any other country could increase their importation without, at the same time, giving encouragement to exportations. He sid nor, however, mean to say that great influx of fa reign corn was likely to be beneficial .to the cm.' try ; on the contrary, he was cmifi.lent that it would only tend to embarrass the finances of the country. It was chi...ugh the unfortunate Act of the Si k Weave s that they were reduced to the lowest state of disteess, which hi was anxiously desirous to relieve. There were also other interests which suffered considerable inconve nience from the measures of Goverom.nt, such as. the shipping interest, and even the agricultural. I. deed, he thought it the bounden duty of Parliament to enter . upon an inquiry into the general state of the ci entry.- a measure which, he believed, was called upodbY the wishes and the interests of thecommunity. Mr. SADLER said he should not have risen upon the present occasion to occupy the time of the House,: did he not consider this the cause both of huntaniiyeri4 of sound policy. He should not now enter inturgeques • tion of free trade. became it was too large a one, mad:, many future opportfmtits would occur for considering t it; the more it :oat •ConSideked. the min. : its * . sitivto' l cates would be called . Upon to defend die . principle: The experience of the trading interestiof the country, and their presentAgressed state, was sufficient to show the fella% of . such a th e. trading interests he did nth mean the great capitalist: ; but that very nummoueond important class, possessed,of small capitals, who 'felt that : ,chef lute sinking by degrees, and were steeped in poverty to the very lips. The per sons interested in the silk trade stalled or e-Committee; end it were granted, they could have clearly and sr • 16(mo:oily pointed otits the measures calculated to re lieve them. As allusion had been made to a hat he before stated on the subject of fleet:ode, be would again endea vour to explain himself. He Might however asks/why it was that those who defended.the principle did not define it more clearly, and point out the limits to which they wish ed it to extend? He had no hesitation in saying. that if their manufactures were to be left open to competition without adequate protection, they must at last be com pletely prostrated. and the ultimate consequence mast be, that the interests of the shuttle and of the plough would become a sacrifice to mere . jobbers. Thei silk manufacture.: should have been heard two years back, . and they could then . have supported their cause with irrefragable arguments. It might be said that he was now only declaiming, and he thought he beard that observation fall from an Honourable Mem ber. He would therefore proceed to the proof: He had no objeetion to explain what he meant by Ira trade. It all the countries of the world were millett to the same amount of 'moon and to the satire bm thens, if their habits of life were the same, then the principle of free trade might be safely and ponied! acted upon. That. however, was not and never could be the case. Notwithstanding all they had heard about the superabundance of labour in the market, he would maintain that there was not a sinew too much in the country, if a different system were pursued. But it one country received in imports the labour of another with out an adequate Muth for its own labour, the country so acting must in the coarse of tithe necessarily become deteriorated. This country, was, perhaps, above all , others, in an artificial state. It was asked were not all the counteies of Europe in an artificial state ? They were, but then this wale question of degtee, end what an English:4pr paid tor. the necessaries of life differed as muclvfromerhat a Frenchman paid, at the• last dif fered from nothing. Thedifference was as great as if I pound weight was placed upon one man, end a hundred pound weight upon another. Could it be said that they were equally. borthened? England was not yet in a state to dispense with protection, and the attempt could' . not but be most injurious. What was the policy dictated by the present circumstances of the country ? In some branches of trade they had certain ceunterbalanciag ad vantages. In such branches let a liberal and unfettered_ . intercourse be permitted with ether countries, tie tliee basis of mutual advantage. In *thee' branches, who* the same advantages did not exist, le; a principle of pro. section be acted upon. This'eras. lib new policy. was sanctioned by .the wisest &ateimeii, end recent mended by the long course of prosperity. whieb the country had enjoyed under it. The preseil $71 601 ; the contrary; bad already depressed, sad would Om tinne to depress the country', till bp feared it weld& end in ruin. With respect to the silk trade, it wM said that the number of spindles and the umber • of looms had greatly increased ; but to draw say inference from this .it should have been stated what number of days in each week, and what number of hours in each_. day, these splndles and 16101 " were at wok . They had been told of the great, V'