Star. — London, England, 1812-02-29 00:00:00

• ' This thy sr!. Published, Hand+rmilyprinttdin (Marco, rriee lE!.l•onr,'l, PORTUGAL. A POEM, IN TWO PARTS. By LURD GEORGE GRENVILLE. Printed fur Longman, Hurst, I:e.L s, Oran, and )3rown, Pater nosier-, OW. City, and dint lonfiatir for whlch this country wail no 4,, , ,s famed. It he were correstly informed, one. cemtneleial character offered w give .15,0 n 00 for two ot these licences, which he wound h:we converted into a kind of monopoly ; but, on an enqpiry being made, it was said to be a mistake at the office. He deprecated a system which tended to infuse a fraudu lent and cotrupt spirit into the commercial transac tions of the country. A sentiment similar to this seemed to be enwrtaincd even by the Learned Judge of the - Court of Admiralty himself—in illustration of which, the Noble Marquis referred to some send. merits expressed by that very learned Magistrate.— The commercial evils of the system might be known by the circumstance, that at present there were -at leest double the number of bankruptcies there were , 1 four or five years since. Upon the general subject ot the exports, it would be very difficult, from a view of the official statements, to form any accurste esti ! mate, as numerous articles were entered at the Cus• tom House, which eventually peid no duty. elle wished, however, to call their Lordships attention to ' SJMC accounts which were that day laid on the table. From these some idea may be gatheied as to the its., jurions tendency of the Orders in Council. They would find that upon the three quarters ending the :10th of October, an actual defalcation of upwards of fifteen millions in the exports, as compared with the preceding year, and this, were the colonial pro duce to be calculated, would amount to twenty-one . millions in the whole year. He deprecated a war ' with America, from which - Ile apprehanded the fp eatcst evils. If such an event stir utd. unfortunately take place, the predicted that the sea %%aut.! swarm with American privateers, which would destroy our remaining commerce ; and, he was persuaded' that our colonies would be lost. He concluded an able 'speech by moving, " Test a Committee be appointed to enquire into the Effects of the 01%.!erti in Council, the Sptent of L.iceuz.s, and other ' existing Commercial Regulati‘ms. Earl BATHURST chinned entirety from the No ble Marquis who had just sat down, both with re ispect to the extent of tee embarrassments complained ;of and the cause to which they were , asci keit. The I ' onesttoe leletive to America was too extensive and & i premature to warrant a Committee in the present cir : cumstaoces, as it would require a lull discussion of ' the whole conduct of America v his respect to this i . country, and interfere well negociations not yet :strou2,llt to a filed conclusion. When the Noble Marquis first gave notice of ,iris motion, he appealed to ascribe the whole of our commercial embarrass ments to the Ordeis in Cetilli ;1 ; as the only existing cause, and gave that as a reason for their I epeal. He of course asked the Noble Marquis. what the Orders were, which he wished to be repealed ? but was sur prised to rind that the Nosfle Marquis was not pre pared to answer that question. If any Noble Lord wished a certain law repealed, it was certainly not only competent for the Noble Lord, but usual, to state what that law was to which he referred. He was ready to give the just tribute of praise and ad miration to the talents and ability of the Noble Mar quis, joined wills all the advantages cf birth, high character; an amiable temper, and the rani he so de servedly tilled in the country, which were advantages of no small consideration ; but he deprecated the line of policy he was pursuing, and was surprised still to find that he had not yet pointed out the obnoxious Orders in Ceuncil, to which he attributed so much mischief, and which he was so anxious to have repealed. He was et a lees to know ;sleet were the Oraers he re-, ferred to. Was it the Order in Council ia 1807, that.' the Noble Mat quis wished to lore repealed ? He had stated, that that was now at an end, since Hol i and had been annexed to France ; but this was not the case, as he conceived that Order to apply to every port from which British ships were excluded, and,ot ceurse, was still in operation with respect to Hol land. It applied also to Americans, coining from French ports to the port of London, and they them selves had stated, that this Order must be repealed. Our Orders in Council proceeded on the principle of retaliation, which was the only defence weliad in re ply to America, and the only means of defeating the operation of the Berlin aid Milan Decrees. The Noble Marqu s must give up all the advantages he pleads, for it he does not rescind also the Order in Council of 1807, and should this be repealed, in what a situation will he place the trade of this country, and what superior advantages will lie net give to France. The Noble Marquis should remember, that the Order of 1807, oa whieh the others were f iunded, was the act of that Administration of which he frrmed a pert, and, if it really was so mischievous in its consequences, the Noble Lords had themselves to blame, without making the present Ministers responsible. The po pular objection to the Orders in Council, of which the Noble Marquis had also availed himself, was, that tiley led to the increase of licenses. He denied that this increase was the result of these Orders, but owing to the increase of our enemies, and the number of poles that had adopted the Continental system. The licenses, were of ccurse, new more numerous than at any termer period, which depended also on the increase of the merchants that applied for them,. because the effect of licenses wet's, that they enabled neutrals to apply as well as our own. While the licenses, therefore, to ports from which we were et chided, had become more numerous, those issued to ports not blockaded, had become less so, which showed that the licenses were not increased by the Orders in Council, but that our trade was in the same situation as if the Orders had not existed. There was a variety of other circumstances that rendered licenses neces sary. and, were the Orders in Council repealed, the same number would still be wanted. The Noble Marquis had complained, that our trade in British ships hard diminished ; but this was not the result of the Orders. in Council, but the necessary consee quence of the increase of the enemy's ports from we Lb we were excluded, the Continental system being farther extended now than formerly. Would the Noble Lords opposite say, that we should send our ahips into the enemy's ports in order to be cap e tuned? —(blear, hear.)—Our prinCtpal trade in Bri tish bottoms was in the Baltic ; bait were we at war with Russia,. it would be necessary to carry on that trade in foreign vessels, and our own seamen ern. ployed would, of course, be still farther diminished. It was not, therefore, the Orders in Council that - was the caose, but the state. of the enemy's ports. But there was some fallacy also in the accounts before their Lordships, owing to the manner in which the Tetwas were made, ILstead of the numbs': of voy- C.A1 3 1 . .7' AL NAVY TIMBER.-11EREFORDSillRE. *:•ti• To be SOLD by AUtTION, by WM. JAMES, At the Red Lion Inn, in the Borough of Weobley, on Friday, the 40th of Msrch next, between the hours of three and six in the 1r aft:rnoon, subject to such tonations - as shall he then produced, THE following very Prime Lots of OAK TIM BER, now marked and numbertd With white paint, from .3 'Who number in each lot privessively. r L L-108 Trees l.ct 3.--100 Trees I Lot 5.—'2•14 Treys l it .-341 ditto 4. 70 ditto 6:— ti J ditto above Timber will be (mind worth the aftentfort of Navy Con ctor, and Timber Dea'ers in gt.neral, beirg of very suer . rior qua ity and of large &mem:ions: lying well twethtr, a•id near jape turvpilte road, abta.t It miles from the city of H e r e ford, 10 figin Le.iminster, and 7 from the navfgabTe river Wye. pciat e o particiti.irs may be had of tie Auctitme:..r. at Hertford; Mr.iiihn Cliese, at Lyonshall, near Kinston; or of Mr. Ricketts, Ba'nsibeld Court, who will .hew the Timber. P4RLIA.IIEIV74Rr PROCEEDINGS. 1 -7 .OUSE OF LORD.:, FEBRUARY 28. 1 he Royal Assent was given by Co:nmission to the Coal Du- t'ee Regulating bill, the Insolvent Debtors Amendment, the East India Loan, the Irish Naval Store: End), zzirment Bill, and to a few whers of a private or local description. The Lords Conintissioritirs were the I.OIID CNA NCI: LLOR, rall CAMOLN, and 1 (luti VIALS:NC:IIAM The House then adjourned till five &chick. • Soon-after that hour the Logo CitaxcEttork took his scat on the Wools,ck The Drury lane Theatre Amendment Bill was ;brought vp from the Commons by Mr. WeirrsaEAD and otbtr Members, p 4 V/26 tic Sugar Duty Drawback Bill, by Mr. I.usulNG•rox. These P.ils Avt re read the first tinie. Mr. I OCK :I A R r pi esented a Message from the Houle of Com. row., reque,lieg that Laid Grenville unght 11,1 witted to at. tend a Ceitunit,er of that hicuse on W l'llnevt ay next. hr Deptitat i6n was informed that their Lordships would send as answer by a Metherger ef their own. Mr laviNc, the Inspt c•or- General, presented an account of the nuinber of vessels trailing in the rtver,il poet. of Great Uri tain, will: a bta'ement of the tonnage tht reot, sthichwasui&red to lie on the table. OTIDFRS IN COUNCIL. The Order of the Day being teed, The Marquis of LA NSDOWN rose. He began - ' by taking a most ccmprehensive view of the nature • of trade, as it rel ned to the Uhitei Status end this country ; and he contended that the resoictions laid by these Orders is Council were destructive of the atrade of both countries ; and, if persevered ha would - be most mischievous of the two to our interests: -He • etated, that until they were instituted, the average amount of the exports of Great 13r itein to America were not less than twelve millions, of which eight euillioes consisted of cur staple manufactures, wool. len goods and cottons, which, if not lost, must be .eventnally considerably reduced, to the ruin of our ! - at tisens end our manufactories. Their Lordships had abed the experience of five years with respect to the , efficacy end ccuseqeenees of this system of measures. j •" lie meant not to consider what effect the Orders in I Council had with respect to coffee-house consump lion in France, or upon the medicinal supply of her :hospitals.; that would be a waste of their Lordships' time ; but he meant to consider their political effects, upon the strength and resources of Vie enemy—whe ther they curtailed tl.e extent of hie dominiOns, or di. utinished his military resources ? As far as these Orders in Council were so intended, they completely failed in their effect. Those who held out hopes taet the Continent was to be coerced through their effij Lacy, found it themselves e x p e di ent , at t h e en d o f 18 months, to depart from the principle rpoe which they professed to act. In °etcher, 1809, they thought proper to open tEe ports of the North of Europe.— j The actual operation of their measures was te he in . ! tan inverse ratio of what was so corfidently insisted' on, It was then to be considered what the effect of the system, cerehined' with the measure of licensing, b id upon neutral nations; and in this view he would particularly advert to the United States. By the Orders in Council, they were prevented from trading with any of the ports of France. He deprecated the effects of such a system with respect to the 'United States, and dwelt upon ihe ingenious effects of au- 1 thorizing a commercial intercourse between Frence and States more or less depea.lent on liar, and refuse' ing it to America, who was totally iedtpcndent of its power. The commercial evils which resulted, were equally evident and exteroive. Five yearn since, manufactures to the arreunt of twelve millions were • annually transmitted to America. Why was such a lucrative and desirable traffic interrupted ? Was i: to raise up a manufacturing spirit is that great con- 1 tinent, hitherto chiefly devoted to agricultural pure; suits.? "%Vithin the short space of four years, the di minution of c ur manufactured exports was incredible.' The United States were d:iven to the macalf.iieture. and they now ea - ported a censid.rable quantity of cottons to the Baltic and to Trieste. His Lordship then read some extracts from a production, he , aid, of a Learned Civilian, in support of his argument, and proceeded to observe, that the c ffects of the Or ders in Council, with respect to the peiitical disposi-. Lion ofeteutrals, were highly injurious; The original evils of the Orders themselves, he considered al ag gravated by the expedient ef licensing ; and the nun:- •• ber of these was progressively incree sed from three to 16,900 licensesin the course of a year. Ili this • part of the subject, it was essential to consider to whom these licenses were granted; by whom the ves-; sels licensed were maened—end in these points their destructive impolicy was apparent. The far greater proportion of them were granted to foreign vessels,l which were manned by foreign seamen, for the pure pose of imperting colonial produce into France, and -taking her manufactures in return. flow infinitely I preferable would it be to extend this contraerciel hie dulgence to a neutral, independent of the enemy, as was the case with America. The House and the country should contemplate with cheerful confidence the growing prosperity of a great commercial power at the other side of the Atlantic, completely tndepene dent of France. It was not .a ground of national boast on the part of Ministers, that the trade flowing into the ports of Brest, of Nantz, of the Charente, would have been American, but foralivir Orders in Council. How then was it? 'Were not the vessels those of countries subservient to France ? Would not Ow sailors so employed be used in the naval 'Service of France, so as to regenerate her ancient means of annoying this country—(Hear, hear,), Nur was this all—this system of licensing could not be carried on at present but at the expeuce of intra . that ages, they had an account only of the number of , and wait for a Notre market. Hisnoltirda:: g the . 6 m; SIP COJIC 1: 4, ; . vessels and seamen clearing out each year, though I ed by giving the Mutien hi, decided nega t ive. these, when cleared out, might make several voyages,. Lord HOLLAND did not wish to foil ,w th e No. and therefore snore seamen might be employed than ble Lord through all his detail>, appeared from the accounts on the table. From 1809 opportunities cif acqairing all the knowledge e a -, to 1810 there had been an increase cf 30,000. To subject that the Noble Lord had, from his Offs i el, l i til ;.- know the actual state of navigation it was necessary tuition. Ile had knowledge enough, how ever, on to know the-number of voyages made in the year. the subject, as every Noble Lord must, to see The Noble Marquis had re p res ented what a fine i there was mush room for encetiry, and that the • ca.. re 'thing it would be to see the Americans going to I cumstances of our trade were such, as to y ere Fiance, Denmark, and other ports, with our produce; some immediate remedy. We ask only for inquiry. but he seemed to forget that they would not be ad- I and, if 'we thew suilicient ground s , on wl • tot pretex t mired into those ports where the Continental system , can you refuse acceding to soh a measure ? If nor Orders ie Cou s Yi operated. Ihe reason of our employing other fu-lequelly informed, we have a right to ie sat ie,; reigners, rather than Americans, was because the f and this %wield be best effected by a Commi ttee :4h; French were more jealous of the Americans. In : Noble Lord had expressed his surprise, that his N 1807, other foreigners were employed as much as ble Priced had nor seised ads it now, as the Orders in Council, issued by the Noble were to be repealed, and therefore hedee • • .''''' _tree inqeire • Lords oppceite, themselves shewed, employing even but would n e inquiry be the best nreees„L eee ,. l ,..." s hips belonging to ports under the controul of the ! ing which of the Orders in Cou nc il Duple; to be r enemy. The Noble Lords themselves had introduced ' scinded. He lamented that the Nohle Lerl had met, ed of, arising from licenses, was, by no means found- the principle (Heal - , hear.)-The immorality complein- ' a party question of it. He s tat e d that sim l* Wie m s r ies il• i had been adopted by the last Admieisttati os . 71,1, .t .ed in fact, though there n o d o ubt mi g ht exist some ' was not now, however, tl:e nuistion. Should it Ve abuses, and papers might be occasionally falsified • thought necessary to resciud time Order of isne oti When the Decree of the enemy was known in this ' not repeal it as well as the o t h ers ? li e wee ' fi ;.,r country, the Board of Trade was consulted, and the mind th e Nob!o L or d, h owever , that 3 prti„i t .. . o. .1% result was, that the enemy's good., if going to British founded in another place, on this n. ver • • ) t'a'ure, es • ports, were not prevented. By the Order in Council being a mere commix war measure, nod nat ;(til e, 18u7, any goods, havi ng a British destination, were c i ent ly v i gorous f or t h e e x i st i ng c rsumstaftset S c t , permitted to pass. They did not stop here, however. was the moti o n Mr. Perceval made, and 11311' Me ull Considering tee embarrassments of our export trade, the Noble Lord reconcile this with his declaration that they nee--modelled the system of licenses, permittiog the Order of leen was the pi inciple on v,liich the, had vessels to go to such ports as might enable them to s i nce acte d, an d o f t h e sane cliaractsr with tee., Or. take out raise licenses to cover their ortio. Tf-e dens in Council that had succeeded- (Si ev e k w er immorality, therefore, now e bi eete d to , was then Thi s , h owever , was not now the question. It'lss; adopted, and we (the Ministers) are now giving the not what had been done, Let what v ets now nertte same encouragement and protection to trade, which to he dune to meet embarressmeets whirls were e . , the Noble Lords opposite did, an d w hi c h they now all hands, and even by the Nretle Lord hits:Wee call temptations to vice and immorality, though the knowledged to exit. He begged their L dlf er s - Fs is eeenry's Decrees then were net so extensively adopted recollect the sett of spirit w ith whielt those ree eu . ei as they haye been since. Tee same measures that were impressed ! What an unfair—wh et an %mgt . they adopted in less imperious circumstances, we are nerous advantage was taken of the sepposed plat a . now following, when our difficulties are enumerated nimity of the Americans ! It was said, that no ill a hundred foil—(hear, hear.) When our difficulties treatment could rouse them to resistance. Adves were se increased, what reason was there that we ing to the effects of these measures the S• Si on • ppir t should not be permitted to resort to those measures, interest, he noticed the expectations of those wi ts of which they had given the example ? We act on supported them, as raised to an extravae.int h• • • eige. te the principle of retaliation: because France allows no —But so far are those expectations from Levi trade with us, we allow no trade with them. The realized, that the result is, that the trade oe awe object was to reduce France to the necessity of ad- mils is el_stroyed, and tile balance thrown iota Bering strictly to his decrees, and thereby injuring the bands of the enemy. The obvious interest d her trade, or to avail ourselves of any relaxation.— th's country demented, and it would become e t The consequence was to discourage the trade of interest of she House to adopt that pr:nciple urged France, and straiten her revenues, which had certainly by his Noble Friend, to threw into the hards of de l taken place to a great amount. Befcre ISO 9 you only power not under the suhjection of Ftence, as threw open to the French every port from which lit i. , much of the neutral trade as p, s,ible. As to lim e ; tain was not excluded, by which means they had it though generally speaking legal, and ties.ing fnst in their power to get the raw material, as well as the the prerogative of the Crown, yet those lately gime produce they might want of this country. if they he thought stood upon a different footieg, not rear& wished to open the trade to America, they must he- ing, but counteracting measures which had beta gin with repealing the Order in Council of 180 - , adopted on the grounds of inevitable neces•ity. The which would open not only Europe, but the whole blockade he considered as illegal for all cumme o j world, to France, (Hear, hear,) and give her every purposes ; and he was sine no judge would exp necessary raw material for her infant manufactures. its meaning so as to conform to the wishes d We should thereby lose also a great part of that trade those who had recommended it. Suppose, on the we were now carrying on. • The Noble Lord, in his principles of retaliation, that a Neutral Trade is calculations, had forgotten, that in 1810 the trade proscribed, when the laws of retaliation give you le was greater by four millions than in the four preced- power to distribute or to sell : any such TOWtr a ii a, ing years, which was one-third greater than all the ercised, is plainly illegal. The licences were illegal, trade of France and Germany. In 1810, the same in a constitutional view. The power of granting Noble Lord, when speaking on the subject, had as- them was not origieally lodged in the Crown, a cribed all this prosperity to the Oldt.la in-Council. intuitu, for the purposes of private femur or pause How could he now account for his inconsistency ? naps and no man could assert that commerce, car. Our trade to the Baltic he 'represented to he ins peers- Tied on to such an extent as our's, in that way, was perous state, because then thic Orders in Council did not liable to great abuse. . A merchant, by melted not apply ; but where they 4plied, lie represented the abuse of it, might be compelled, at the fcotof our trade to be in the most disastroui circumstances, the Crown, to submit to all its wishes. boil and therefore he concludes the Orders in Council arc therefore, was necessary, as well for other per. the cause of our decay of trade, and ought to be re- poses, as in order to legalize this matter. li • pealed. In the Baltic, however, the Orders inCoune:l had been said of the statement by the Noble • did not apply, thou eh not in the same degree, by a (Bathurst,) which was to be attended with such se concession on our part in favour of America. To versal satisfaction. With such an opinion of what, however, did this argument amount ? because efficacy, he was surprised the Noble Lord had - the pressure on the enemy was not complete, we were sent it to Hull, to tranquillize the merohints, tot. therefore to remove it altogether. It we open the rioters of Nottingham, and the traders of Lot e. French ports to the Americans, the French will have The Noble Lord, in shewing the consequences to -- every supply they want, while we are not permitted to apprehended by a perseverance in our .c onduct e trade either to France, Italy, dr Holland. Does the America, exibited, in lively colours, tee ILI ' Noble Marquis say that we should open every port distinctions of character, and the advantages silt that has adopted the Continental system, and that the politer Frenchman draws from his knowledge we should re.inquish the whole trade of the Continent th:.t distinction. He knows .the proud, haughty,4. to America ? The hardship would be heavily felt by mineering disposition of the one, and the amen' • the British Merchant. The licences were intended dating disposition of the other. He knows that Eng as a protection to the British merchant, making that land will not relax, will not be satisfied with anything trade legal which would otherwise be contraband, less than the unconditional repeal of the Berlin an` and thereby preventing much fraud and perjury.-- Milan Decrees. By relax a tion and indulgence tone With respect to our trade with America, a distinction America, France might succeed in severing them', b oueht to be made between the real and official value. uses moreeffectually than had bean done bytheA • • Our real trade with America by no means amounted can war. This was the policy in which we were - .• • to what it was represented. There was not above rating,by the fateleffectsof ottrOrders,andstilirast eSl I four millions yearly for the berm consumption of the unaccommodating spirit which accompanies them America : the remainder was merely a circuitous Noble Lords did not consider what a hazard we are . trade to other countries, which we would resume our. running, nothing less than that if losing the Es 81 1,!, selves, in case the Americans were shut out from it. party in that country (for two parties exist in I 1 I The true way to see the value of trade with America l r . ever. Th was to compare our own experts to theirs, and we the p r e ese so n li t ta m ry in m ist e e a r s 4 ur w e, a i s n th w e h w ic ar h higel the Pam objesr should find that during the operation of their embar go sula ; for time final success, therefore, of that .. our produce, finding its way to the same place s o f he would avoid a war with America; for a vein wars destination, had amounted to more th an ever t h e America would be t h e lo ss of Spain. By s"it s vo w ' Americans had effected in conjunction with us bef ore . link in the chain connecting the two countries ,_ During the last three years, we find that our exports be snaet, that never would be joined afterwards . :: • to the whole Continent of Am e ric a had not b een l ess politics, as•in war, there ;bowie be kept in vie! 7 than R 10,000,000 a year, while our exports to Canada grand object, to which all (rulers shoeld•be 00 0 7_ had been nearly doubled. From March 1809, to May; nate: in war, frittering away time strength of a .ar 1810, the embargo was in full operation, an d a ll corn .' in expeditions of lit t le consequence,—or in OSP; munication cut off with America; yet during that 1 ieeping the attention of the public divided upset.," s time our trade was most successful. From May 1810 try schemes of no real utility, would bees' ully!!! I to an advanced period of 1811, the trad e w as open to rious to public interest. It is for your Lor..ds: the United States, and our exports th a t year were not ! therefore, to exhibit the country greats as wee •ea 'so much. Our commercial e mb arrassme nt s , i n f act , its temper, o n this important occasion, as boo ' • had no connection with the Orders in Council, but *doter. were to be accounted for from other causes. In 1809 The Earl of WESTMORLAND said he gess. ot:r trade was in a flo u ri s hi ng state , be cause m an y fident that his Majesty'i servants, the prese nt leie ,„ ports had not then adopted the Continental system, try, were able to exculpate themselves, fro st oss'. from which we had since been excluded. In 1810, of passing the Orders in Council to she prestos' , our ships to the Baltic had been detained by contrary The effects of those Orders were highly e • winds till those ports, which we expected to be open, 'trade, and the p r oof of that was visible to this'll' • were shut against us, and caused considerable loss.— of our commerce, particularly for the last two - had si . Our trade also to South America, iu 1810, w as nearly Party and accidental citcumstances b. va a i • at a stand , by the 'market having been overstocked : impression of the Orders in Counc i l, which thq our coo ' - _fle since that time the trade in this quarter had consi- not deserve. Notwithstanding we are ensPF derably revived. The . credit given by Exchequer war, and that w a r is directed against pie , . . Bills had had also a very favourable tendency, by our commerce was in a flourishing state. ar enabling manufacturers to keep their wen employe, try too was satisfied with thew i for be a • 1 • . I r is C O r in tint Cni Bo' dui No cot Lit bet fir in ( licc who to t his 1 grit tim Nol k al the tbei Or( it i 11Th wri for wet k( exp the )4c the aga I ago 1 T tot A PIA 0 tort "dm bell & !ell alai 0 Prod ( oft Itt %) *us tie