Star. — London, England, 1820-07-05 00:00:00

The warrant for Its tie-establislimetit tad been made out and sent to the treasury, without coniug or communicating with the Commiss i oners the mselves, or any part of them; so that it was possible that the Commission might have been revived, without the individuals who were empowered to act under it being . at all acquainted with the circumstance. In his opinion, those Gentlemen were treated most con temptuously by the Secretary for the Home Depart ment. All this he would corroborate by the corre spondence ; and he would ask the House whether an individual making a statement, ,which he professed to be able to substantiate by correspondence, deserved more the confidence of the House than he who con troverted that statement, and - would, at the same time, conceal the correspondence? He then moved, That there be laid before the House copies of all corre spcmdence that bad taken place between the Secretary for the Home Department and the Commissioners, or any one of them, appointed to inquire into the state of tht Courts of Justice in Scot land, with reference to the duration and continuance of the same." Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that there was no difference between Ministers and the Noble Lord op: posite with respect to the course to be pursued. There was no disposition on the part of Government to stop the Commission or restrict their inquiries— on the contrary, it having been found, after the ex piration of the Commission, that many subjects wor thy of investigation were left untouched, Govern ment determined to renew it—and the only question. was, whether or not the demise of his late Majesty dissolved it? If such were the case, it followed that all the acts done after the period of the demise would be invalid, and it was his intention to bring in a Bill to render all such acts valid. However, the result of the inquiry was, that the Commission did not terminate by the demise of the Crown, and con- sequently, that all their acts were valid since the de- raise. The Noble Lord opposite had complained that the suggestions of the Commissioners had not been attended to. The time for carrying into effect such stigFestions, it was apparent, must be when the Commissioners had concluded their labours. It being, then the intention of Government to revive the Com mission without delay; the Noble Lord would see that all the practical advantages which he might ex pect to derive from the production of the correspon• dente were attained, and therefore that there was no ground for pressing the Motion—(llear). Mr. J. P. GRANT took this opportunity of sug gesting the postponement of a Bill relating to the Court of Session in Scotland. The Bill had his en- tire concurrence; but he knew that amongst his pro fessional brethren in Scotland a great difference of opinion existed, and as at this particular period a great press of business rendered their mutual com munications more difficult, he hoped that the Bill would be postponed to next Session, in order to give those Gentlemen an opportunity of consulting each other upon the propriety of its provisions. Lord CASTLEREAGH said, it was the disposi tion, he believed, of the Hon. Mover of the Bill to fill up the blanks, and postpone it till next Session. Lord A. HA MILTON said, that after what had fallen from the Noble Lord, he had no difficulty in withdrawing his Motion.' Mr. KENICE DY wished to know how soon the Com- Missioners might be expected to finish their labours? Lord CASTLEREAGH said, it was the opinion of the Commissioners that they might be able to con. dude in ont year.—The Motion was then withdiawm UOLLECTION OF THE REVENUE. Mr. HUME said, that in rising to submit certain Resolutions concerning the expense of collecting the Revenue, he should disclaim all hostility to Ministers, because they had appeared desirous of encouraging the objects which he had in view, and, in fact, had, courted inquiry. The calculations which he held is his hand were all founded on official documents, and., in order to avoid all possibility of difference, he chose to take the calculations as they had been officially made up, although there were instances where his own comrtations led to very different inferences from those set forth in the documents. The first Resolution, he was sure, would meet with the concur rence of the House. It stated the necessity of eco nomy and retrenchment in every branch of the pub lic expenditure, and was as follows: " 1. That with a view of accelerating the period at which re lief may be afforded to the country item a pan of its birchen, a continued and vigilant superintendence ought to be exercised over the expenditure of the State in all its several Departments; and that a minute investigation should be instituted into the mode and expense of Management and Collection in the several Branches of the Revenue, in order that every Reduction may be made therein, which can be effected without detriment to the. public interest." —The same Resolution had last year been proposed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, when he pro posed the additional taxes. The second Resolution related to the collection of the Revenue in the years 1796, 1810, and 1820; and a comparison of the expense of the collection in these years respectively ; as also the gross amount. The amount of the Revenue in 1796, had been £23,000,000; in 1810,1 £45,000,000 ; and, in 1820, £53,000,000. In the last year the expense of the collection bad borne a per tentage of £6 Is. 2d. forming an .increase of 20 per cent. above what it had been before, in 1796. In that year the expense of collecting the Revenue had amounted to £1,700,000, while in 1820 it had risen to the sum of £3,341,000. At the time that the circulating mediuni had been so much depre ciated, it was but , fair that the salaries of public officers should be increased, but as that depreciation had in a great deg ree ceased, the salaries ought to be reduced i n t h same proportion. So far, how tverrwas that from being the case, that an addi tional expense of £160,000 had taken place since January, 1819; and, in 1820, an addition had been made of seventy•two individuals above the number of those employed in the preceding year, with sala ries amounting in t!‘e aggregate to £4,904.—1n 1796 the expense of collecting the Revenue had been 6 per cent. and in the present year the total expense had been £3,341,000. That calculation was confined to Great Britain, and did not include Ireland.— In 1819 the expenses of quarantine amounted to 1:92,000 and had increased in the present year. The Revenue of Ireland fo r 1820 was £ 5,220,000, and the gross per tentage on collection was £l6. 85..11d., and £2O on the net receipt, though in 1808 it had only been £l5. He should confine himself to the great heads of Revenue, and he must observe, that in general, the increase in the Customs had exceeded that in the other branches of the Revenue. In taking the amount of the rate per cent. at which the Rev*. oues of Great Britain and Ireland were collected in . „ • the year enJing tha sth a rj ai i i i rt iing b e h a d lie pa x endi t u re, and that at wiz expedient that ihe kept out the account of •thi Pose-011ine r and tine same e oeld .14 continued. Hawkers and Pedlare dues. notwithstanding which t Sir H. PARNELL was of oP:asiee that the great they would find that a greater increase Ltd taken' increase in the expense of collecting the Reienue had place in the Customs than to any o th er department. I not been satisfactorily 'explained by the last speaker. The following were the rates per cent.- By reducing the per dentage froin seven to five per saving of £laoo,ooo the cent. a Public. would accrisiin, Mr. J. SMITH expressed his surprite that ate first Resolution should be opposed. In Ireland the system of the Revenue was a job ;as sixteen per cent. was paid in the net, and 22 per cent, in the gross amount. Mr. W. SMITH said, that it was within his know ledge that a Distributor of Stamps received 33000 or 04000 a year. This person did his duty as well is any man in the kingdom ; but he wished to know What any man could do in the distribution of stamps to entitle him to £4OOO a year ? The Chancellor of the Exchequer had said, that the Country tlankers' should not be Receivers of the Land-tax ; but he be lieved they were so, The truth was, that the present Government was one of influence, and it ought not to be, nor should the country permit it, if he might be allowed to say so. The Government would not want that influence, if the People had a proper confi dence in that House. No man could believe that the ,fair collection of the lievenue in Ireland could cost. sixteen per cent. He was, however, in despair that there was in this country either power or perseve rance sufficient to effect the Reform necessary to get the better of that influence by which alone the pre sent Government existed. Mr. TIERNEY said, that the general feeling of the Public was, that nothing was to be expected in that House. He, himself, had been encouraged to proceed in these details by Mr. Pitt, the greatest 'financier that this country ever saw; hut at last his exertions in that way became tedious to the House, nd such would be the fate of every man who endea voured in this manner to serve the country. He be lieved firmly, that if the Government were fairly to meet the evils in the face, in order by true economy and retrenchment, to bring back the country to what it was formerly, they would have the support of that House, or, at all events, of the country. No man could doubt that a great saving could be made in the money paid for the collection of the Land -tax, Stamps, Etc. It had been said that the collection of these taxes had been carried on to the amount of 330 millions, without any loss but £13,000. He would venture to say that this collection might be made much cheaper, and with as little risk. He knew he was speaking in the wrong place about the gene ral collection of the Land -tax, the County Membei-s being better able than he was to give an account of the profits of the collection of that tax—(Hear, hear). He was ready to vote for the Resolution, which stated that the collection of the Land-tax and Stamps could be done at a much cheaper rate to the Public ; and•upon that he was ready to take the sense of the House, unless something 'should occur in the course of the debate to alter his opinion. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER con sidered the Resolutions as useless. It was true that the Revenue of France was collected easier and cheaper than that of Ireland, for the principal Revenue of France was a Land Revenue. He denied that the ..d-tax or the Stamp-duties could be better or - collected than it now is. Mr. HUME contended that his calculations were correct ; add therefore he wished the Right Hon. "Gentleman to place his own calculations alongside of them, to shew the House whicb was accurate and which was not. He did not therefore think that the Chancellor of the Exchequer was justified in throw ing his . (Mr. Hume's) Resolutions overboard. He trusted the House would on this occasion, manifest a determination to economise. The House then divided.—For the Resolutions, 95 —against them, 124—Majority, 29. THE LATE KING'S WILL. Mr. HUME observed, that, by the old law of the land the King could not make any will, as his suc cessor was the rightful heir to all his property. But by the Act of 1800 his Majesty was empowered to bequeath his private property, or such property as might have been purchased by the produce of the privy purse, or other private funds. According to the previously existing law, all the property of the King devolved upon his successor, but by the Statute of 1800 the exception was established, where a will was made under the sign manual. If, however, it appeared that a will was net made under the sign manual, that will was not valid; and should such be the case in this instance, the property of his late Ma jesty reverted to the present King. It would be re collected that the will of George I. in favour of the Duchess of Kendal, was set aside by George IL upori the highest legal authority. Here the Honourable Member adverted to the regulations, made upon the appointment of the Regency, to provide for the care of the King's private property, under the superin tendence of Commissioners, who were responsible to the Queen and the Regent, observing that the Royal woods and forests were held not to be at all under the management of these Commissioners—(Hear!) — In the preamble to the Act of 1800, the King was I listed to be possessed of property in the Funds, as well as of certain lands and tenements, and he now wished to know how that property had been disposed of? If there was no will, Ministers had not done their duty if they had not appropriated the late King's property to the use of the Public. It was, in deed, incumbent upon them, in such case, to take possession of that property immediately upon the de mho of the Crown: for they were as much entitled to do so, as he himself should be to take possession, saheir at law, of his father's personal property,..untilJ 111111 i *n less some will were brought forward to bort Isis claim. Ministers had manifested an unwillingt+ ness to state, whether the late King had made any will or not, or if not, how his Majesty's private pro perty had been disposed of, and therefore he felt it. 'necessary to Submit the motion with which. he meant to conclude. It was said that his Majesty had, ac cording to the Act of 1800, made a will, by which he divided his property among his sons who were then living. This property was stated to amount to a million--(Hear, hear from Lord Castlereagh). He was aware that this property was said by some not to exceed £200,000. - But if it really amounted to a million, it. 'night be concluded that each of the Princes had succeeded to £206.000, and this was point upon which be submitted the House ought to b informed, before theprovisioes proposed for the d uttior branches of the Royal . family should be as to. • /And tied hr Customs. Xxciae. Stampia sewed Thu& In England,C9 3 $ I 3 19 7 I 2 10 el l I 3 IS 4 Scotland 16 9 Of 7 410 317 1 519 4 Ireland 16 13 Eti If 9 11e 11 S sd) 16 19 10 , And the average of the total Revenue in each county, in England, £5. 17s. 10d.; in Scotland, £9. 6s. I Id.; and m Ireland, £l5. Bs. I lid. The only way in which he could account for the greater increase in the Customs• was by this circumstance : The Customs were under the controul of the Trea sury, while the Excise was partly under Commis:. %foliar'. Though there Itad•been an excess for the last year on the Excise, yet the excess had.been more on the Customs. The reason was obvious. In the. Excise, preferment was given-according to seniority, while in the Customs it depended on interest, and not merit. In the city of Aberdeen, which he represented, the situation of landing surveyor became vacant, and instead of, being bestowed ott the next in seniority, it had been given to a young man from - Edinburgh, to tally ignorant of the duties of the office. The place was worth £2OOO a-year. A reductioriought to be made in the Customs equal to that in the Excise. The next point to which he should call the attention of the House was that of Superannuation. In 1810, the . amount of superannuation had only been £lo,2ep. But after the Act of the 51st of the late King, it had Increased, in 1817, to £61,335, in 1818, to £76,200, and in 1819, to more than £BO,OOO. The reason of that increase was obvious, as superannuation added to the patronage of Ministers. That increase had not been confined to the Customs, but extended to all the departments, under the controul of the Treasury.— The Revenue in Scotland and Ireland was collected at different rates from that of England, and that mode of collection should be done away. While he was upon the subject of . the Revenue, he must ob serve, that the Post-Office was one of the best con ducted of all the Public Departments. He should next proceed to the Office of Receiver-General ; and on that subject two questions would arise, one of which related to the expense'to the Public, and the other to the patronage of Ministers. In that Depart ment there were 95 Distributors. of Stamps, and 68 Receivers-General in •England and Wales ; and hit Resolution would go to state, that the duty might be done at a much less expense. The salaries of these Officers amounted to from £40,000 to £50,000, and the total amount of the balances was about £344,000, while the whole of the duty was discharged by deputy. While the Receivers-General kept the balances for a quarter in their hands,.in the Customs and Excise it was paid weekly into the Treasury. In London, the taxes of a large district bad been col lected without any pcundage, and the Individual thought himself sufficiently rerninlerated by the use of the balances. In the Post Horse Duty the Public had never lost a shilling, and a similar course to that adopted in the case of that duty should betaken with respect td the other branches of the Revenue. The per center should be taken away, and a salary be allowed. In the case of ten Distributors of Stamps, there had Been a deficiency of 1:390,000, and the ar rears for the present year amounted to £115,000. — The next Resolution would refer to the Distributors of Stamps, some of wldm had balances in their hands to the amount of £190,000. At the places where Stamps were sold, the Public were made to pay at the rate of 7% per cent. In 1818, in Aberdeen, £4455 had been paid as poundage to the Distributors of Stamps, while the duty might be done for a quar ter of the sum. He hoped no objection would be made to the Resolutions being entered cm the Jour nals, to -chew the opinion of the House. His first Resolution was—" That in order to hasten relief to the country, it was expedient that a minute enquiry should be made into the whole of the Public Expen diture, and the utmost vigilance be directed to the management of the Revenue." Mr. LUSHINGTON stated, that the Honourable Gentleman, in adverting to the expenses of 1796, had omitted to take into the account the department of the Post-Office, and that omission would consequently materially affect the result. The year 1 1 197 would have afforded a better standard of comparison, as it had the same items of expense as the year 1890. At that time the salaries were small, and the emolu ments arose principally from fees. At that time, there was no superannuation, and those diversities made it difficult to institute a comparison between the different periods noticed by the Honourable Gen tleman. He - (Mr. Hume) had made a mistake as to the per tentage, which was only £5. 13s. 84.—[Mr. RUMS here stated, that he had taken the account from the documents on the table.]—Mt. Lossurro-, TON proceeded, and said that the Honourable Gentle-. .man had taken the wrong line of figures, and that' had been the cause of the mistake. He (Mr. Hume) should have compared years when the state of the country was similar; but instead of that, he bad com pared a time of peace with ene of war—(Near, heart) The years 1817 and 1818 formed the proper time of comparison with the present year ; and the Revenue and the Expenditure of the present year were far more favourable than that of the three preceding. The third Resolution might be adopted, though he should move that the others be negatived ; and in their room he should propose three of his own. The amount of the reduction for the present year had been much more than £59,000. There was no ground for com paring the mode of collecting the Revenue in Eng land, with that practised in Scotland and Ireland.— Out of £330,000,000, arising from the collection of the Stamps, from the year 1790, the arrear was only £130,000, and of that £lB,OOO only was a des perate debt. A demand was made each Quarter for the balances in the bands of the Receiver-General, and the poundage was 14s. 2d. Though in the case of the Distributors of Stamps the duty was done by , deputy, et Government looked only to the princi pal. The Superannuation had increased greatly since 1810, when a salary had been given in lieu of fees. But that had been attended with benefit to the Public, as men in the prime of life had been substi tuted for aged and infirm. Tile Honourable Mem-, ber concluded by stating, that he should move two, Resolutions, declaratory of the state of the Revenue in 1818 and 1819 ; and a third, statinl, that a minute . inquiry had been made into every lrancb of the Nib, .. 0 'The liodatineble Mati,er tonclida with ntov,.., ing for copies of any minutes of the L or d s o f t he 'nem ! Bury with respect to the private property of the lack King, and any proceedings or correspondence which ';tad taken place with a view to ascertain th . e amount of that propyrty. The CHANCELLOR of the t RCIIIEdUER ex' pressed his conviction, that the House would ag r ee with him in-thinking that no inqUiry shOuld be en tered into with respect to the private circumstances of the Royal Family, unless under circumstances of imperious necessity (Hear, hear, on die Ministerial Eienthes)—anci as no such reason could be adduced in this case, he trusted the lloute would see that the ---7 Honourable Member's motion was unnecessary, es pecially after the explanation which he had to offer. Since the death of the King, a testamentary docu ment had been found among his Maje riper!, and the subject had been referred to competent persons, who had not yet made their Report. But, whatever the decision of these persons might be upon the points referred to them, there was no qnestion whatever but that the proper t y of the late Kingde volved upon his present Majesty. But as to the amount of that property, the Honourable Mover had been very much misled, for that property comprehended about £90,000 Stock, together with some freeholds, and the King's establishment at - Weymouth, making ale together a sum very far• short of what the Honour , able Mover had stated. What claims there were upon the ao,ooo Stock, 'lre was not yet enabled to state ) nor could he say what was the value of the property at Weymouth until it were disposed of; and it was intended to advertise it for sale as soon as the Report alluded to was made, as the retention of that esta-. 'blishment was unnecessary for the accommodation of n!s present Majesty. Under these circumstances, and after .the explanation which he had made in conso• nance with the disposition of the Crown to satisfy the House upon any point affecting its private interest ' he trusted it would be felt that it was not necessary to press the Hon. Member's motion—(Hear, hear). Mr. HUME said, that after the explanation which the House had heard, he had no objection to with• draw his- motion, declaring that he should not have brought it forward, if it were not for the refusal of the Noble Lord to make any answer to the question which was put to him last night, with respect to the subject of that motion. It mould be admitted, how, ever, that the motion had produced a satisfactory result, in doing away with the exaggerated reports which had gone ahroid respecting the amount of the private property of the late King. Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that he could not feel himself at liberty to answer any question affect. , ing the private affairs of the Crown, without special authority. It appeared,- however, that the Honourable Mover, as well a, other Members, were quite mis taken, as he last night stated, with respect to the late King's private property, which, so far from amounting to a million, did not, in fact, exceed 4:104,600 or £105,000..--The motion was withdrawn. THE NEW BANK NOTES. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUERrose, he said; to make a motion, pursuant to notice, to whiCh he apprehended there wield be no objection, as it merely meant to enable the Bank of England to enjoy the same security against the forgery of its new notes that it possessed for its old notes under a former loor. The Right Hon. Gentleman concluded with moving for leave to bring in a Bill for that purpose. Mr. MA BERLEY said, that if he understood the object of this Bill it was to give the Bank a monopolyef security in the des teetko and punishment of forgery, and he should think it a measure deserving of very serious consideration. Ile hoped that the Bill would be printed, and time afforded to inquire how far the pro tection of Country Banks as well as the interest of the Public, were consulted in its provisions. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER observed, that the 13111 he proposed to introduce was not at all meant to grant any monopoly to the Bank, as its only object was to afford it 'the same security against forgery which it possessed for its old notes, without at all interfering with the security of country banks, or the protection of the public interest. Sir J. MACKINTOSH said that he had no abjection to the Right Hon. Gentleman's proposition, as he understood that the punishment for forgery under this Bill was to be the same as that agreed upon in the Bill which was yesterday before the House, namely, fourteen years transportation. Leave was given to bring in the Bill. THB LOTTERY. Mr. BERNAL asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether, as a discussion was expected upoh the Motion for the third reading of the Lottery Bill, it was the Right Hon: Gena donates intention to bring it forward at that late hour? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIIEQUER replied, that as a discussion was expected upon this measure, he should move the eta of the Order until to-morrow. . HUME expressed a wish to know whether the Right Honourable Gentleman meant to withdrast the new clauses? ' The CHANCELLOrt(the = CHEQUER said, that he wadi 11111Olkie inimatiemillimit die subject was brought forward. ils Odor ivervempuesii INN this day. . , THE ALIEN BILL. . hrrerd CASTLEREAGH moved the postponement' of the r for the second reading of the Allen Regulation Bill until !ridgy next. • Sir J. M ACKINTOSH suggested that it would be snare eon .; s eami to poespooe this. Order until Monday, asg discussion wa s 1 CASTLEREAGH Friday with respect to the King's Message. CASTLEREAGH observed, that LEIN, discussion M inded to by the Learned Gentleman should extend to a late bear, it would then be time enuegh to propose a farther postponement of the order to which his motion referred. ..The order was fixed for Friday. CONVETANCERS. - Mr. PORTMAN moved the second reading of the Nave/. timers Bill. Mr. TREMAYNE moved that it should be read a, second time this day six months; which motion was agreed-to, after a few words from Mr. Sea ALM, expressive of his approbation of the principle of the Bill, and the necessity of some provision to pretest unqualiSed persons from practising as Cooveyaneers. fbe Report of the Committee of Supply was broogbrup; dm several Grants to the different Members of the Royal Family were agreed to, and a Bill ordered to be brought In amardingly. PESIALR WIRIPPING PREVENTION RUA. Oa the (Wert:if the Day being read for the nowieloteadee itseif Mte a Committee on this Bh Mr. W. WYNN etnangly o bjected to the punidustent of whipping, as inflicted on FL-nudes, which the Honourable Mem ber deseribesi as wanton barbarity, uncalled for, and cruel in the extrema.. The Hesse then resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill, the chumps were agreed tb, and the Report was ordered to be re ceived this day. The other Oiders of the Day were then disposed of, and the Home adjourned. BATIIIIIOe-a The . - ~~i .1 BATistwo...Tbe Essay lately published * Os this re important subject by . Sir Austin Cuints,.deiervai ht . attention at the pram nuommt, wham persons are. opt t o r t !mall themselves of the prortlee as a enivereal I'VMatea t mtb ost r in the least *considering the -nature of „their Conedtptiolk The rie Csaidefe Reabh• justly obierves that It enetabselhOrit'iteifid in- areetios and more valuable ,prisatictllavntarks, After ori that Ile has appeared on the subject. ft ethildes the ,elfeett4g.is ur i ons a kind' of . Bathing ia munepies disorder% flee" aad mtpetiments of the most Eminent Physicist:soak meow ether we . :euphoria information, de". the Pe_ _aelleee in — Versia, Of Abytelnie,. A fr ica, Bengeli Yam*, sadly to, Egypt, the Levant, /cc. I