Star. — London, England, 1812-01-22 00:00:00

spectable family could she, however clear her inno cence, afterwards be admitted. Tke H o n. Member `concluded with . moving fur leave tO bring in a bill' 'for the erection of a Penitentiary House, for.the recepticen of male and &Male convicts in Louckin, and the covey of Middlesex. Sir W. CURTIS- rose to second tbe Motion, of illerhich he cordially approved. Mr. Aldertlian.COMßE stated, that the Corpora tion of London had it in contemplation to build a Penitentiary House in the City. Sir S. ROMLLLY thought teo much delay had al ready taken place on this very important subject. In 1798, a list_of the persons confined in the hulks aid prisons, had bein presented to the House. He him self had formerly called the aleniion of the House to the subject, and yet two xears had elapsed without any alteration. The House would do wrong irtley confined themselves to the Report of 1794, without taking into the account that of 1-798. Mr. Bentham had proposed that the prisoners should 'be paid for their labour, and that the Contractor should take the . responsibility upon himself'. Mr. Bentham's plan was attended with many advantages, and particularly the small expense at which employment might be procured for the convicts after they should be discharged. He wished the late Committee h td paid more attention to some of the suggestions of Mr. Bentham, then gh be ing himself on that Committee, he must share also in the blame. His objection to the present plan %vas, that the Peni•entiary House was to contain so small a. number. The present was no experiment. h had • succeeded in Ireland and America. 'I he expellee could be no objection, the same expense attended transportation and cnntinement in the hulks. (Hear.) Mr. ABERCROMBIE bore testimony to the me rits of Mr. Bentham. With respect to the Report of lest Session, he begged leave to state, as a caution, That it was a complete exponent of the system of Mr. Bentham. The persons who acted for the Public placed so much confidence in Mr. Bentham, that they 'did not think it necessary to enter into a full exposi ;Lion 'of his plan.—Leave seas given to bring in the Bill. DROITS- OF ADNIIRALTY. Mr. BROUGHAM said, he greatly lamented that it should have fallen to his lot to call the attention of ' 'the House te e subject so important .to the Constitu a ' tion as this was, which embraced•tio less a que,tion than whether the - Crown should be enabled to raise money without coming to the House of Coltimans, by having these funds at its unrestrained disposal. It avas well known there were several funds of that de- 1 esnongst which were those of the Duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster, which. when not enjoyed by . any other individual, were vested in the Crown. Thus it appeared, that during the minority of the prinse cf Wales, near £S(X/,000 accrued to -the Crown. Of the Duchy of Lancaster he should say nothing, hut go to one of more importance, namely, 'the 41g per Cent. Fund, which, during the last fivo years; averaged 835,000 ; the fund which this tee af forded was not its greatest evil ; this was exceeded by the manner in which 'it was raised, which con 'adtoted it a most operessive tax. The next think he would allude to was, the Scotch Revenue, which did not amount to less than X 106,060 ; all these ques tions, however, would come he!ore the House on 'another occasion ; he should ow advert to that greaf fund the Deoils of Admiralty. The Honour 4ble Member then - se:Alt into a tat . .?tner,t of the mode; by which these arose, but said it was easier to state _ the .sum . to which they amounted than the seteces• from which they were drawn. Up to July 1810, the net ;um paid into the hands of the Registrar of the Admiralty. was £7,310,000, anti he unuctstood, by payments since, it hid been increased to .CSARX),OOQ, vnt.l the questi in now was, whether the Crowe, in addition to its income, was to have the disposal of this enormous sum without any coreroul—aliether that was law, or if that etas law whether it was right it should be so—whether the Crown should have the power of appropriating these enormous sums to a mistress, or to a Minister for the pnrpases cf elec fons in all parts of the country—if this was to be law, it was folly ; it was mere mockery, to say that all supplies were derived from that House—it was Mockery for-the Crown to come down to that House to ask sepeties, when, whether granted or refused, the Crown could commend such turns wdlloat any controul. That such was law, however, 'he meant to deny, and I a that pureem he Tilted the opinion of Lord Chief 'Justice Hale, Lord Coke, and other great lawyers; and first, he alluded to the case of wrecks, which formed a considerable portion of the Dre'ts of Admifaity. Lord Coke says, wrecks are to he applied to the clearing the sea from pirates— ' and Hale says, the produce of' the sea are to be ap plied to tl.p defence and safeguard of the sea. These opinions, • aid several othets which he quoted, the Honourable Member said, all proved' that these pro. ducts of se rack, treasure t.tx, and other regalia, was, • in fact net prcpetty of the Ca.wn, but were to be applied as other Parliamentary grants •were, • and that the .ame legal cnnstitutional rules were appli cable aperopriation as to oilier publit monies. He won:deo:1:e down to our own times, and stele the opinion of Sir W. Scott, who say s Prize - is the creature of the Ciowa ; but how did he say it?--to use h:s t,wa voids, because the Crown may apply it either to peace or war, a:: May be most bezel- chi' to the Stare—but the Crown does not hold it as private property.— ( licar, hear, hcar !) It was said, that these tegalioc or funds were vested sepa. • rattly in the Crown, for the support of the Crown and defence of the country :—but allowing that they bad beets originally granted f.t that pot - pose, y t for more than a century past, Parliament b. d taken on itself to make grants necessary fai those parpo.es ;—and,. theiefore, Parliament having re - 1 eyed the Crown from all these burdens, had a right resume those grants which had been made to cn. ab c the Crewn to bear them. Seireral of ehese , g axis, which constituted the regalia, had been nliena t ..t and abolished ; the purveyance was abolished in Ittn - of Charles the Second, and, in the reign of Anne, she, much to her honour, alineated that part of the regalia, called the tenths and first fruits, and appropriated them to a most meritorious purpose. At different times since, Parliament has interfered in t';ese afledged rights of the Crown ; he should only aaude t . - one instance, and to that, because it alluded particularly to the getestio i n of prize, this was the Act : of the 35:h of the 'Xing, called the Dutch Corn ' eilssioners• Act, which appointed Commissioners for t he sale of Dutch prizes, and directed the preceeds to be pair:Linn - a the Bank of England, there te.remain, indeed, fey the benefit of the Crown.. (Hear, hear, frees the Ministerial Bendul). • In the Devonshire case, it was laid down iy all the Judges,. that %he treasure of.the King, being the sinews cewnsr comfort of the realm, could not be disposed ofliut by grants under the Great Seal, and that all attempts to assign it, bj 'wirrants under the Sign Manual, were absolutely illegal. The Honourable Member then quoted the opinion of Lord Clarendon on the subject of Droits cf Admiralty in the reign of Charles the Second; when the King having made a grant of the Droits (by sign manual) to Lord Shafte sbury, Lord Clarendon went to the King, and told his Majesty he feared he had been surprised into this grant, that he was of opinion such grants were contrary to the rights o otlier•per sons, who had rights as well as the Crown. This was the language of Lord Clarendon ; this was his opinion of all revenue so attached to the Crown, and that all manner of danger would arise from the Crown possessing the power cf making rants with out all the regular constitutional checks. He bad now stated the reasons which existed, in -his opinioNagainst the Droits of Admiralty remaining any longer at the disposal of the Crown ; and only stated the mode in which they ought to be applied. The origin of the fund was disgraceful. It induced the Crown to go to war without that honourable, frank, and 'generous avowal, which, ie former times, had always preceded hostilities by this country. Similar practices, he was sorry to say, were pursued in modern times, although I the Mctives might have beat different.—He did not' think the Copenhagen Expedition, ill-fatec and un just as it was, had been undertaken with any view to plunder; but our attack upon the ships of Spain, previous to any Declaration of War, nes a disgrace to the character of the nation, and subjected our Go vernment to this . imputation— that it made war for the sake of plunder ; 'that the King made war, not for the good of his people, but fur his own aggran. disement, and the gratification of avarice. Should there be any Minion of the Crown, whose vices were catalogued and chronicled in the minds of the people, I such a man, instead of punishment, might be re warded by the Crown—he might be penroned, not , out of the Consolidated Fund, but out of Droits of Admiralty—out of the plunder, which the Crown, without the consent of the people, might take front , unoffending nations —(hear, hear.) The Learned Gentleman next entered into the debt of the Civil List, which ; after three millions applied towards it by ParliaMent, and the proceeds of the Duchy of Cornwall, suffered a still greater deficiency el re7GO,OOO, 'which had been paid, unknown to Parlia ment, out of the Droits of Admiralty. There was another circumstance which he must notice : Previous to 1800, it appeared, that considerable purchases had been made in land for the C: own ; and it was stated in the preamble of an Act, brought in by-Mr. Pitt, that these purchases were IT ade out of the private purse of the King. And this Act at the same time, in opposition to the Act cf Anne, declared, that these lands should be the private property, and at the disposal cf the King ; although by the Act of Anne, all lands belonging to the King, should vest in, and be unalienable, from the Crown. He noticed these facts, because he wished to support the dignity (f the Crown, by giving to the Crown that Constitu tional revenue which consisted of a Parliamentary stipend : and he would never consent to have the Crown receive revenues from so many irregular sources, which would have th e effect of throwing too Igloat revenue into the hands ot one S.afereign, and too little into the hands of another.—lt was from such e fund as he was now speaking of, that abuses cf t: lis kind exited. He strongly condemned the grant ut re21,0:;0 to Sir Home Popham ;`and he thought that auy officer, who made a capture should, if it was an unjust capture, be condemned in costs. But as M. - ters now stand, a most dangerous and unconstitutio nal fund might be *peened from this most corrupt source ; and thus the rapacity cif the worst Conn &- vourite might be armed with frightful powers.— Might not such a man at this time, by bringing about a riiptute with America, bring three or four millions of property-into theltands the Crown and the Mi nisters ? See then what the dreadful consequences must be of suffering such a power as this to exist . in thd country. He concluded by-moving 14 Resolution to the following effect ; • a That the grant of money for any public purpose, othervi.e than by a yot« of the Commons H ,use of Parliament, syas tm comtitutional and ,:angerous: that it was the du y of the House of Commons to investigate all grants Sat might happen to be made is any other w4y : that property from cap:pres and seizures of vessels belonging to nations with whom we were not at war at the time of such captures, had arisen to stick ap Imam der. ing the present war, as to call for the serious attention of puha meet : that since the commencement of the war, s e sups 'srncun. tins to £7,344,000, arising front sources of this kind, had b•itst received by Government, and was entirely at the disposal of G 9. vernment, without any controul on the part of Parliament ial. though Zarb/argent had paid all the debts of the Civtl List to which that suns m'ght be su?posed to be applicable t and that Ike House would mks the nr. t effectual means to inquire into the manner In which such sums were disposed of, in order Mat the same might be applied to ti.e arlendour and dignity of the Crown." ' Mr. BRAND seconded the motion, arid contended that the application of public money should never be entrusted to any Minister of the Crown ; that Parlia ment ought to have a controul over all public money; send if such controul was not now exercised, the House of Commons ought not to vote one shilling towards the arrangements that were making with respect to the Royal Establishment. At this time, when taxes were so rigorously exacted from the people, it was of the utmost importance•that the application f the fund in question should be enquired into. Mr. COURTNEY admitted that the origin of this fund had been attended with abuses, but none such now existed. In the Copephaeen captures there were no•Droits at all; and the proceeds df the capture of the Spanish frigates were applied to the relief of cer tain merchants: whose eroperty in Spain had been cOnfiscated, yet still it was useful that a fund of this kind should exist, and that it•should be applied to the wants ( f the Crown. • There always had been, and there ought to be, an uncertain fund applicable to the Civil list. He would not say that this was the best fund ; but until a better one was provided, he would nofiuffer this to be done' away. The K ing ought not to be dependent on Parliament , because such a thing would endanger the security of the Crown, and even the - independence -of Parliament, 'whose Members would by such power have rhe-meitns nfinakids court to the C h own, and genera: corrUptian would be the Conseilfiance. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL called the atten tion of the House to the several Acts by whiCh reve nues were settled upon the Soyereign, and contended, that none of these Acts did eyer touch the revenue arisg from Droits of` Admkalty, which alWays be lon to the Crown; and therefore the question was, whether this revenue ought now to be taken from his Majesty. Unless it codid be shewn that the property in question had been applied to corrupt pitrposbs, he _maintained that Parliament should not interfere with that which his Majesty had an undoubted right to, and which was to make up the deficiencies'of his Civil I List. As well might the House pass a vote to take from his Majesty any other part of his revenue. On this ground alone, he would oppose the motion. Captain HERBERT contended, that Parliament had a right to interfere in the distribution and appro lriation of those proceeds ; aed that they did not be. ong exclusively *to the Crown. He denied that it was the wish of his Hon. Friend (Mr. Brougham) to introduce any alteration of the law, he only wished to correct an error which had crept into it. Mr. G. ROSE considered that as it had been al lowed take a distinct right in the Crown, they should have sheen in what way it had been abused before they called on the House to deprive the Crown of it. The first acquaintance he had with Lord Nelson was his Lordship calling on him to say, that in the West Indies he had captored a grcatmany vessels, in all' of which be was threatened with actions, which would eventually ruin him. He (Mr. Rose) went over the cases with Captain Nelson; and told him he had done his duty ; and that he should feel itto be his duty to make a strong representation in order that he might be indemnified against the expences of those actions. Mr. STEPHEN thought that this fund, although in strict law the property of the Crown, ought to be applied to the public seiv ice ; and so far he agreed with the Honrurable Gentleman who spoke last. He maintained, however, that the Crown had the sole right to all Droits; and if the wing had a right to the property when captured, had he not a right to the beneficial use of it ? At the time when Mr. Justice Blackstone published the last edition of his Com mentaries, he who was so strict a guardian of the public mcnies as well as liberties, when it was pro posed to increase the Civil List Revenues, called upon every person in the country to consider how much the Royal expenditure had at that time in creased. At ptcsen:, the gross proceeds of the Droits of Admiralty are reduced, by necessary dis'burse ments, to nearly one moiety. 'Flip Learned Gentle man then enumerated the different items of these disbursements, including large sums paid to the cap tors of certain vessels, the salaries of the principal Crown Officers, &c. The country would have had many distinguished Officers ss ho.have fought its bat tles, and cnntributed to its glory and strength, lying in prison, for debts which they could not have paid, in consequence of actions on captures which might have been given against them, bad it not been for this wholesome power vested in the Crown, which enabled it to relieve them. He concluded by declaring, that, in bis opinion, there was nothing in Law or the Con stitution which did not entitle the Crown te hold, as formerly, this branch of its particular revenue. Mr. - BROUGHAM explained. - Mr. ABERCROMBIE said, that it was not merely the duty of Parliament to link into the abuses which may have already crept into these funds, but also, what abuses may hereafter creep into them ; and into m hose hands those fends may yet fall. — Upon those grouttds he would vote for the motion of 116 Hon. Friend (Mr, Brougham). Mr. W. SMI'l Li wished to kniax what the Home would have thought, if, in 1793, it had been proposed to grant 81.00,000 to be pl iced in perpetuity under the sole controul of the Clown - The CHANCELLOR'of the EXCHEQUER said, that was a most distinctly different question, and he did not know how it applied to the subject before the House. Whenever any complaint had been made as to the applicition of these f unds, he had always de sited that the accounts of their appropriation should be laid betote the House, that either the calumny might be refuted, or the misapplication of them be placed on those who had so misapplied them. As to the legality of these funds lacing vested in the Crown, it was evident Item the Crown having always op prop: iated them in the same way af any of the branches of the Civil List. It was impossible, he said,. to find one minion of Minitters who had received one hundred pounds out of these lunds.—Was it fair then ler the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Brougham) to inflame the public mind by assertions which he could not sub stantiate ? • S;r - FRANCIS BURDETT thought the Right Honourable Geetleman, although he had touchei on some, of the collateral points of the eeestion, had left out every material consideration. He had grged the inconsistency of supposing that Government would go to war from unjust considerations, merely for the sake of the Proits to the Crown. The astonishing fact, however, was well known, that there have been Minis- , ters of the country who have actually plunged the country into war from such unju st coriJerat.ons. A part great of the Right Hon. Gentleman's spzech was directed to the qualities and qualifications if the Right Honourable Gentleman who brought fcti ward the Motion, and to the conduct of a former Adm.ni stratiOn • but that had nothing to do with the argu ment, iNhat the liberty Gf the subject called for was what they ought to consider. In the present day, Parliament was really so ornamented with Gentle men of the Learned Profession, that arguments were now listened to, that would, at a period not beyond his ezperienceof the House, have been received rather coldly. It was in the nature of man to desire power, - and nothing could be more constitutional than to watch with an eye of jealousy over every means of re venue which were not under the controul of Parliament. —lt was a fact, that a King might a; King be now poor q with his Civil List in debt, yet with private property to _a very considerable amount. He was glad e to find that some doctrines, which had formerly very coolly maintained in that House, were now relinquished by those who opposed the present ques ,tion. He remembered to have heard it gravely main tained by a Judge Advocate, that the Droits of Ad miralty were as touch the private property of the King as any private gentleman was entitled to his fprtune, He really cools} not see, though, the wing might have right to this property de jure come : that he,could hold any property on any other tennis the; f or the benefit of the public. He bad no right to p at money into his n own pocket. jt was impossible to sa y ham this money might, be disposed of. It had b ran said it might be given to Minions and Mistimes ;, but might it not also be , given to sneh per sons al Membrss of Parliament ?—[laugh.] H. n i g h t first buy all' the salenbleiboroughs, had then proc ure sbch a Parliament as Would willingly sauctinn the ra m 1 unjust measures. He was sorry that this (jun 6 0 4 11 3,1 at present been brought forward, for be considered i t so strong and so clear, that when he saw the disp a a. tidy of the House he could not but be alarmed l et they should decide against the public, which w, against the vital interests of the country. He really, alien be saw the liberality of the people of (Isis“,,,„. try, and their wiLlifigness at all times to soppoit t!, dignity and splendour of the Throne, was astoni,h. j to find, that while the debts of the Civil List ru j been encrrasing, the splendour of tile Throne had been di ee d dih . lo g . "He must with sorrow MAMA, that it appeared to tin a ., the eri f inal s c lendoor of the Crown had been disclaimed, 114 that I .4.w:rat esublishmesda had been laid slides while More m e , s millions had been paid to the Oa Ll a r. Mr. Bankeis W eed y Bill had been never acted on. lie matotained that the wh i l e 4 the Drults of Admiralty ought to go to the captors; aid d aubs , who bear the burden of the war ought to bare the book ie ii . The public, as they st ere at all the expence, ought to be m e w ed to the cqntroul at what arises from the war. tYpon the pr ow sysiem It might happpen that a Civil Liu might be Matthaei with dlit, while a King might engross 'half the landed mato 4 1 the kirgtiorn. as his pleats property. Mr. 'IIF.RNEY saki; It was probable that a demise ef d e Crown would take place at no very great distance, and k b e i e . ved the House to enquire into the sobjea. lie *mild, bore,,,, , content himself at present with proposing an Amanda:tutor& ling the jealousy with which the Mose viewed the subjec t Th.. Amecdment was then put, and opposed by the CHO. .C.E1.1,0 it of the EXCHWQUEIt. . . Mr. BROU tt li Mel n pried. Mr. PONSONBY declared his opinion, Coat the Ca g es* not have one shilling of stv'enue not subject to the comma d Parliament. The House then divided—Forgo original motion M—Apho t k Ski division then tank place on the animilmeat:—ter it 26—Against it 94,—Adjourned at l'wo'eCluek. THE EVENING SLUR. LONDON. la the STAR of &tarp last. in as; Advertisement for the Wll W,ster urks. far I. Rona in the sigt6uur, tot A. S. tiLorka. WEDNESDAY. JANUARY 22. PRICE OF S VAS DAY AT ONE EYCLOCI per Ct. Coos. for money 6211—D0. for m. 631 Sr.., Ct. Reduced 63.1-4 pee Cent. s per Ct. 943/ —Bonds 17s. pr.—Omaha:l L a. Exch. Bills (3.1.) is. es. pre..—Ditto :s. ' II? Adventure packet has arrived from the 14. diurrancan : she is 64 days from Messioa l 57 days from Malta, and 25 days from Gibraltar. The 44. yeuture brings an account that Tariffs was chid, besieged by the enemy, against which they had length erected 18 pieces of heavy cannon. A Malta Mail, which arrived this morning. fee. niches us with the details of a most dashing insist of the gout of Naples by 250 of the 69d regimen. udder the command of *lce Daude t sith $0 ses rines. They had to coin pd with upwards et lON of the enemy, whom they put to the bayonet. of after destroying a battery and three gun boats, em• turd six gun boats and 20 merchantmen. Therm. mained on shore for two days, end returned umph to Sicily with their prizes. The Gibraltar chronicles are finid inch eta from General BALLISTEROS and his army—be be seems to have effected nothing of importance. Jamaica Papers to. the 24th November. were le , seiyed in town this morning. In the House of At. semblf, on the 13th, Resolutions were adopted iam der to continue and strengthen, by Ting the soF plies, the relations that have long subsisted with, Oat colony, and the parent state. An Amendmrat. • this /Lewin:ion, stating the distresses which the milt planters suffered, by the distillation from gni* Ws roPOSO. but rrjected by a milirwity of 23 to l& The Assembly hits aho pAbsed an Act, doe* the dtities on all grain impurted ftom /Oaks. NOTTINCRIAU. ;AN. 'A.—Perhaps no circa connected with the commotion' in this tovia sad • • nity, has given so clear a display of the dispositin the rioters as qne which took place on Friday ego* last. As Mr. Townsend. who keer i the 8ark7 4 . 1 ! public r house, at Bastard, was retnndag home from town he .vas assailed by two men. who **ld mined to take his person, without any attempt st sib' b.ry, but, oa his voice being beard, they inmedisMl 'desisted from their desperate purpose ? and vac • 44 Ifs are aristaim—yea are tpre she woo ipe *ed. —On Sunday morning early oue frame was bolo in Nottingham ; 4nd the following night PM at New Radford, one of which was the filot . silk stocking frame in England ; and. rerat was then employed in making an order for the RiZEN T. On the same night nine warp la • were completely destroyed at' * vain ( seven miles hence ; they were employed to what is called two arras hale at, which has bent dent uctive to the credit of the Nottingham nufacturers. On Friday last our tcnenSessions and the only circumstance worthy of =intim% m nected with the present troubles, was that not bit fopnd against the - two men who had been ' six weeks, on suspicion of collecting money to the franse.braikers. Yesterday the Duke of Yogic held a lifditarrif at his Office, in the Horse Guards, Which Ifs tended by— hobjetr.Ganeral bb gabg to th• lug hind ; Major-Gentpal I ileao rook leave co Lb ON dal; Earl-et Suffolk, Major-Gen. Chan" Lieet.43 o . btalar-Oetutral Sharpe, Major-General Scatleaw, Gereral Norton, hiajor-Geueral Stoma" 4nli " jonAkneral Burnett Ma* Williams, If do ewes and a intsibei aka. Oliccrs