Star. — London, England, 1813-03-10 00:00:00

r . .littee, that he was finable to say immediately %vitt ,h2r or not be should propose any proceeding founded '.on the Peti• ion alluded to. - Mr. DICKINSON wished to know whether the lion. Baronet, at any period prior to his present an- 1 'Petition, had investigated the allega,pions of the 'Petition, with a view to ascertain their truth or false hood ? Sir F. BURDETT said; that as he had been able !Ito , inquire into those allegations, he had reason to be- teve they-were true. 4 Mr. DICKENSON inquired, whether or not the 'loaf exhibited by the Hon. Baronet last Session, had 'been brought from the gaol of Ilchester ? Sir E. BURDETT allowed that it had not been :brought from Jlchester—but from Bath. SIR STAPLETON COTTON. Sir STAPLETON COTTON (dressed in full regimen -Itals, with the ribband of the Order of the Bath) hay ing previously taken the oaths and his scat, i The SPEAKER rose and addressed him in a -speech of the following purport : ~ Lieutenant-General Sir Stapleton Cotton—ln 'the interval between the active services of war, the 1. is proper sphere of your duty is within these walls.— , This House hails with pride and pleasure your re -,' torn to it, bringing with You fresh marks of the Royal favour, the just reward of your long-tried and eminent services (hear, hear.) " Descended from a long line of ancestors whose ; names have been recorded with honour in the ear liest pages of our history, and who have been uni formly characterised by those qualities of prudence, ~ of generosity, and of courage, which laid the founda -1 tion of English greatness, your raee has afforded 1 many splendid models of that worth and that valour ~ which dignify the Gentleman of England—always 4.,prompt to discharge the duties of civil life, and never I, slow to take up arms in the cause of his country.— • (Hear, hear.) " Such, in an eminent degree, were the qualities of him from whom you derive your immediate here ditary honours—endeared to his country by the highest public virtue—not unknown to many who are here present—and remembered by myself perso , pally with sentiments of the deepest respect and es teem—(Hear, hear!) 4 , W lien in your early years the flame of war burst } forth throughout Europe, you evinced a spirit con genial with the times, and your military ardour ur i ged you to endure the toils and perils of your pro fession in distant chines. Trained in the same camps, and animated by the same enthusiastic love of glory • as that great Captain who commands the British ar ' mies in the Psionsula, and who has filled the world with his renown, you have pursued his career, and • yon have shared his triumphs—(Hear, hear, hear.)— , Renouncing the charms of ease which awaited you at the seat of your forefathers, you followed to'the ten ted fields of Portugal and Spain ; and having esca ,i ped the harvest of our thanks for your gallantry and eminent services at Talavera, you now stand hete crowned with the never-fading laurels of Salamanca. (Hear, hear, hear.) Your overthrow of a part of the enemy's force, at an early period of that memorable -.' day, laid open the road to victory ; and your perse verance completed the triumph which your valour bad commenced—( Hear, hear, hear.) i 44 These heroic exploits have again entitled yon to the public thanks of Parliament; and I now, in the name and by command of the Commons of the Uni ted Empire of Great Britain and Ireland in Parlia i ment assembled, deliver to you their unanimous thanks, for your distinguished exertions in the battle on the plains of Salamanca, on the 22d of July last, which terminated in a glorious and decisive victory. 1,. (Hear, hear, hear.) I Sir STA PLETON COTTON's reply was to the ' following effect : " Mr. Speaks r—l am unable to expresehow much I feel honoured by the approbation of this House.— I am indebted for it to the bravery and discipline of the troops which I had the good fortune to com mand. my King and Country, I will, however, yield to no t man ; and my feeble efforts shall ever be exerted to I render me worthy of the high honour that has just 1 . been conferred upon. me."— ( Hear, hear, hear.) 1 On the motion of Lord CASTLEREAGH, the address I of the Speaker to Sir Stapleton Cotton was ordered : to be entered on the Journals of the House. ' ARMY ESTIMATES. -, Mr..LUSHINGTON brought up the Report of - the Committee of Supply. p Mr. CR EEVEY intimated his intention, in con ' sequence of the important business which stood for that night, to postpone until that day week his mo tion relative to the second Paymaster of the Forces . and his deputy. The carious Resolutions were then agreed to, sub 1 silentio ; with the exception of that for granting for Barracks 4460,587. (is. 4d. ; which being read, Ur. FREEMANTLE drew the attention of the .i House to the item in this grant of £ 125,000 for new Barracks in Ireland, respecting which no information whatever had last night been afforded by Ministers. i Conceiving it highly proper that the House llhould be told the object and the vitent of these projected buildings, he would move an amendment to suspend the grant of this 4125,000, by substituting the sum of £355,587 Cs. 4d. fur £4.60,587 Cs. 4d. in the Re solution submitted for the approbation of the House. Lord PALMERSTON observed, that his Right 1 Honourable Friend and himself had last night stated ell that they could recollect on the subject of the I lonoureble Gentleman's inquiry. For several years ' $ considerable number of barracks haci been in pro t gross in Leland ! for infantry at Kilmainham and Cork ' ----fcr cavalry, at Caliir, Kilkenny, Newtown, and Maryborough), in order to relieve the civil commu nity from the great pressure of the troops, and to save to the Pubsic the expeuce of hiring buildings for ~ 1 , - the purpose. Scveral of those barracks were to have ' been completed by the end of 1812 ;—although be was not awsre whether they had actually been so completed. Another description of Barracks was also in such forwardness in Ireland, as to be expected 1 to be brought to a completion in the present year.— The effect of agreeing to the Honourable Gentle man's amendment would be, that these works, so begun, would Ib~ suspended; and that the money already expended would be totally lost to the public. . If the Honourable Gentleman wished for more de , oailed accounts on the subject, be was sure that his lion. Friend would 0 very ready to produce 03;xu. Mr. FREEMANTLE declared, that he would not press his amendment if the Right hlosourabla Gendenian would assure him that he would lay be fore the House all these details, which in his opinion were indispensable on the subject. Mr. PEELE having intimated that he bad no objection to the introduction of the information re quired, and that the,Htm. Gentleman might have had it beim had.he chosen to move for.it, Mr. FREEMANTLE withdrew his amendment. CATHOLIC CLAIMS. Mr. GRATTAN moved she Order of the Day for theltHot►sc going into a Committee of the whole House, to take into consideration the claims of his Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects, with a view to their final and conciliatory adjustment. ' On the question being put " that the Speaker do now leave the Chair," Mr. LUSHINGTON rose and observed, that as it was possible he shoUld pot have an opportunity of cirliveting his sentiments on this great question after the Speaker left the Chair, he was very anxious now to express the opinions . he had always held upon it, an anxiety which had given way on former nights to a consideration of the exhausted state of the House, after the protracted debate which had occupied their attention. He wished both now and at all times, to deprecate any imputation of bigotry and intolerance, for the Right Honourable Gentleman Who brought forward the motion could not be a truer friend to the most perfect toleration than he was, and he wished further to disclaim the charge for the venerable and enlightened Clergy of the city which he had the ho nour to represent. Having, however, thus vindicat ed his motives and principles, he must be permitted' to say, that he differed materially upon the mode in which it was proposed to accomplish what he could not but consider as a great change in the Constitu tion, nor did he think that the Right Honourable Gentleman had laid a sufficient ground for such a change.--:(Hear, from the Ministerial side.)—All circumstances should have induced that Right Hon. Gentleman to shew that those cbtroxions tenets which the BM of Rights was intended to guard against no longer existed, a fact which was far from being clear it they looked to the professions of the Catholics, orythe conduct of their advocates—at one time Lord Grenville had vouched for the concession of the Veto ; but the Noble Lord had left the Cabi net before his mistake was discovered, and even at the petiod when the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Canning) made his motion the last Session, for a consideration of the Catholic claims, the Ca‘holics had announced a•complete denial of all concessions on their part. -He trusted the 1-Liuse would pardon him for saying that they must go back to the BB of Rights, as their guide upon this occasion ; and he confessed he had felt much surprise on hearing an Honourable and Learned Gentleman opposite (Mr. Plunkett) lately assert, that the Bill of Rights con tained no prohibition against the Catholics—it was enough for him to refer to the preamble and the con cluding parts of the Bill, to spew the necessity of ample security. The former acts which had been pasced on this subject bad a reference to this-security, and the Right Honourable Gentleman was bound to spew that no fear any longer existed. It was, as had been justly said by his Right Honourable Friend, a question for calm and dispassionate consi deration,—and he assured the Right Honourable Mover, that if he satisfied him as to the security of the Church and State, no man would be more ready to support him. The House having then resolved itself into the Committee, Mr. GRATTAN rose and said, that as the Com mittee was nothing more than a new form for con tinuing the debate, which bad already occupied so large a portion of their time, and as the subject had been a good deal exhausted, it was not his intention to to much at large into it at present: In the reso lution which he should have the honour of proposing, he had make a few alterations, in compliance with the suggestion of an Hon. Friend with whom he,had consulted. Those alterations did not amount to any departure from the leading features of the resolution as he had originally prepared it, and consisted only in such shades of difference as made it impossible that there should not be a final concurrence upon it. He had added such regulations as appeared neces sary for the preservation of the Protestant Church and the Protestant Establishments; and though he thought that his original idea well the same length in this respect, yet as his. Hon. Friend was of opinion that it might be more clearly expressed, he had readily concurred in making the alterations sug gested,by him. With respect to the feelings of Eng land and Scotland, Nvitlt reference to the Catholic claims, it had been stated alread:: that Scotland had taken no active part against them ; and even though there might exist a difference of opinion, it afforded rather an argument for discussion than the contrary. As to the Presbytery of Glasgow, they were decidedly not hostile to the consideration of the question ; the Presbytery of Edinburgh, he believed, were other wise disposed. With respect to England, there had been much respectable opposition; but there had also been much respectable support; and it was to be ob served further, that the agitation of the subject had not excited that sensation which authorised them to think that the people of England were unfavourably disposed towards it. They had no right, either, to predicate that the Church of England was hostile to the measure, however individttafs might be affected with respect to it. He was sure that the Church of Ireland afforded less reason to warrant' that House to keep back and refuse to entertain the question.— In many of the Petitions the principle contained was not a principle of opposition, but one of security ; if they desired security, they desired it graciously ; there was such a confidence implied both to the Le gislature and the Catholics, that the Catholics had, n fact, the force of the argument in their favour.— Those who urged the Petitions against the Catholics, petitioned for a monopoly ; they placed the safety of the Church and the State on the principle of exclusion, thus assuming a position most fatal to the liberty of the country and the monopoly of the church. But on the subject of the general security of the nation, there is a decided argument, they should finish what they had begun; and those who recommended a con trary course, engaged them in a dispute which must end, because the combatants on the one side desired that they should exclude a great portion of their fel low-subjects by an argument which affronted those lieu out of their connexion with them. Many of those Petitioners put their signatures to words which din" did not understand ; and he believed that W they weft eked whether they thought that their Catholic cowstrymen were enemies to. the Church and the State, insincere in their profesiions and unsound in their allegiance, they would at once reply that chef held no such opinions ; but he believed also, that if this question was left unsettled, the Catholics might be forced out of their loyalty ; if they made ica question of debate whether one-fifth of Isis Majesty's subjects were well affected or not.—(Hear, hear). — With respect to the danger of admitting the Catho lics into the Constitution, it had been already answer ed, but he would endeavour to answer it again, be cause it appeared to be one of great force. The ar gument was this, that the exclusion of the Catholics formed a part of the Bill of Rights. He allowed it : but as his Hon. and Learned Fiiepd (Mr. Plunkett) had truly said, it was not an essential but an inci dental part of the Bill of Rights—it was mitigated, not originated in that Bill. The Gentlemen, there fore, who made this assertion, should shew it to be the case, but they could not do it. He could pro duce the authority of the Act of Union in Scotland, when the oath prescribed by the Bill of Rights was not considered to be essential but subject to future regulation. Here then was a decisive authority against that argument. When it was said, therefore, that this provision was a fundamental part of the Constitution, he would tell them that Parliament said it was not—and when they set forth the claim of consecration, lie would set forth the declaration of Parliament. They could not disgrace the Parlia ment nor make it a party to so vile a deception.— The next argument he believed, urged by the oppo nents of the Catholic Claims, was the incompatibility of opinion with regard to the different modes of set tling those claims. To this he would answer, that to those who agreed in the principles of emancipation, there could be little discordance as to the mode of effecting it. The first preliminary should be, that the Church of England shogld be preserved full, perfect, and entire—on this they were agreed ; the second was, that nothing should be granted, which could weaken the rights of the Protestants in Church or State. Here then was concord. It was a question of concession, not of difference—if there existed any difference, it,went not to the principle but to modifi cations—it was a subject of debate, not of opposition. When they had once agreed to the principle they might consent to delay, but they never could admit impossibility, The Right Hon. Gentleman then ad verted to the arguments which had been advanced relative to the authority of Mr. Pitt, as being hostile to their claims, in refutation of which he read an ex tract from a letter addressed in 1501, to Lord Fingal and Dr. Troy, by Lord Cornwallis, as explanat,:y of the sentiments of Mr. Pitt, from which he inferred, that if Mr. Pitt thought the concessions of those claims impossible, as had been asserted, he could net have written that letter. In 1505, on Mr. Fox's mo tion, Mr. Pitt had said there was a bar, but never that the measure was impracticable. If these were the sentiments of Mr. Pitt for six years preceding his death, was it fair to conclude that he had changed them in the nine months immediately previous to that event ? Difficulties, in fact, were made out of no thing. The same fears existed before the admission of the Catholics to the elective franchise ; but instead of any injurious effect, it had made elections partly aristocratical and partly democratical ; it had founded them not on monopoly, but on property. But the authority of Mr. Pitt was not the only one. He begged to name that of Mr. Burke, Mr. Fox, Mr. Windham. His Hon. Friend near him suggested another name, that of the Bishop of Landaff—to that he begged to add the name of the Bishop of Nor wich, that model of pure and primitive Christianity. —(Hear, hear.) —The Lord Lieutenants of Ireland, for the last 17 years, were also authoritieslo which he could very safely refer. 'Lord Fitzwilliam went over on the principle of conceding to the Catholics the claims they preferred. Lord Camden was a high authority, intimately connected with Mr. Pitt, and resident in Ireland in very trying times. What did I.ord Cornwallis say publicly, in a letter to the Ca tholics ?—not that their claims were inadmissible, but necessary to the connection of the empire. Lord Hardwicke followed, and he, though first unfriendly, afterward's pronounced concession necessary. The opinions of the Dukes of Bedford and Richmond were on the same side. His Right Hon. Friend (Mr. W. Pole) had the experience of five years in an offi cial situation in Ireland, and his opinion had been recently declared in the most decided manner. It was not fair to charge his Right Hon. Friend with inconsistency, because opinions were dependent on times and circumstances, particularly in the consider ation of this question. He remembered the time, when the mention of extending the elective franchise in the Irish Parliament would have been received with horror and amazement; but the time had now arrived, when the intenseness of this feeling, as had been said by an Hon. Friend of his the other night, had relaxed—partiee were approaching nearer and nearer each other ; they would at last inevitably as sociate and fall together, not in an union of religions, but an union of interests—of feelings—of sentiments. The object of the resolution-was, to remove the civil and military disabilities of the Catholics. How was this to be done ? by securing the succession in the Protestant line—by guarding the prisrllegts of the Church in all points—by suck regulations and re strictions as might be deemed necessary. Here was a fair and honest principle. He would then ask leave to bring in a Bill, founded on this Resolution with certain provisions annexed to it for the Colleges, the Ecclesiastical Courts, and for the prevention of all foreign influence by the sanction of an oath. Those Gentlemen who called for further securities should frame them. He had established the provisions which appeared necessary, but if they desired more, he would not name them, because in demanding fur ther security it was only contending against the prin ciple of the Bill under the shape of regulations.— (Hear, hear.) He thought it his duty to do no more than this, that if any of the Gentlemen opposite had any fair and honest proposition to make for the secu rity of the Church and State, he for one would be ready to accede to it. ( Hear, Hear.) He would say more, that even if there were any proposition not ne cessary for the Church and State, if it were the opi nion of the House that they should be adopted, and that they did not militate against the principle of the Bill, he was satisfied to have it loaded with them ; in fret, he valued the principle so much that he would 1111■,.. PMl•Mil•Miii=.lPww4.l ~ • - not sacrifice it by precipitation or punctilio.-(//ear, hear.) His object was to give to the Catholics the benefits of the Constitution, and they might rely on it that they would lay the seminal principle of being 44 one people by adopting it. It was a Committee of concord. They were there to speak to the peol)le of Ireland—they had never done so before—what lan guage then did it become them to adopt ? We are friends to yaur liberty and to lour religion" His idea was, that proper delay should take rl..ce—they should not legislate wi'hout consulting the feelings of the people, though they should nut legislate under their dictation ; the whole principle sh , mild he com mon sense ; England was not Raced to give up her religion, but to share her liberty ; if she refitted thi appeal—if Parlitment refused to redeem the pte(ige it had given, then ail :he guilt and folly would with them—all tlte putti.htnent and di,grace with then whom they rejected ; if, however, they acted ai wise r.ad a better part, a brighter ploireet presented itself ; he would promise thi.m, that if thy s ent fo r the dove, it would return to them with the glad tidings that the storm was hushed and the waters subsided. (Loud clacr.r.)—The Right Holt. Centltinan then conciuded by moving the foll.)wiug Resolution : " That with a view to the preservation of the Church and the State, and uniting 111 classes of his Majesty's s+dhj• co, it would be necessary to remove the di,abilities which his Majesty's Ca tholic subjects laboured under, taking care at t'te same time, to adopt such measures as should secure the safety ref the Episcopal Church of Great Britain and Ireland, and the Church of Scot- Land." The SPEAKER then rose and addressed the (,'bait' to the following effect: " MR. CHAIRMAN—As I have not yet met with an opportunity of expressing an opinion on the sub ject under discussion, and as the Resolution moved by the Right Hon. Gentleman is intended to serve as a basis for future Foceedings, I am desirous, as well as indisposition will allow me, of stating my views of the question before you on this occasion.— I feel, indeed, the greater desire of so doing, be. cause, when I enter my protest against the form of proceeding which has been adopted, I am compelled at the same time to protest against the measure itself which that proceeding is intended to carry into ef fect—(Hear. hear.) I xvish, likewise, to accompany this avowal with a statement of those points nit!' re spect to which it appears to my jti.!gnient, further privileges may be communicated to the Catholics, without detriment or danger to the Constitution.— Looking.back to the coin se that has been pursued, and toe various modes that have her: recommended for attaining the object V. hich the advocates of the Ca tholics contesrplate, I am strongly impressed with the persuasion that this cenrse will not be successful in the accomplishment of that object —( Hear, hear.) Of the three p;ans which have been proposed, and. in some meAsure detailed to the House, one has been abandoned ; the second is not likely to succeed ; and the third is notoriously impracticable—( Year, hear.) The first plan was a project of unlimited concession ; a project, for which there are, indeed, now to be found bat few advocates within these walls, although the Right Hon. Gentleman who is the Ault. r of the pre sent mcssure was once loud in its support, -that principle, however, the Right Honourahle Gcntle man has abandoned, nrid it is disclaimed by a Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman (!tl. Plunkett) also distinguished himself on a forayer evening, and it may be, therefore, considered as r.jected by every authority in this House. The second plan, is that which professes to aim only at qualified concession upon obtaining such conditions as are necessary to the security of the establishments in Church and State. The Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Grattan) has never explained the details of those pre vious arrangements and regulations, nor did he adopt them as a part of his measure, until he found that they were essential to its reception. My Right Ho nourable Friend (Mr. Canning) who in the last Par liament submitted the question to the consideration of the House, took as his basis the necessity of regu lation and security. We know that this principle the Catholics resist, they declare that they will sub mit to no State inspection, or to any control over their own Church—(Near, Hear.) This their deter mination was declared in November, 1312, both in the resolutions and their public meetings, and in the work of Mr. Clinch, who has been avowed by several Catholic prelates to be their advocate and organ. Thus far the Right Hon. Gentleman's measure will not satisfy the Roman Catholics ; but another part of his measure is to repeal the test and corporat oil laws, and will this satisfy the Church of England— (Hear, hear.) It appeals then, that the two great parties to the arrangement in contemplation do not approve it, and the main object of general concede • tion is therefore not attained. The third plan of a Noble Viscount, which depends on the possibility of gaining the concurrence of the Catholics to every condition which can be prescribed with a view to the security of the Chinch of England, is still less cal culated to prove practically efficacious. Thus then all the plans yet devised or suggested, are deficient or inadequate to the end %% hid' they propose. In a Committee, however, upon the present state et the question, 1 must embrace the opportunity it affords me, cf objecting altogether to the form and charac ter of the measure to which we are now requited to assent—(Hear, hear.) We are desired to acquiesce in a sweeping repeal of all the Statutes and mutinous which have been made fur the safety of Oar Protes tant Establishment, without previous assurance or condition, to surrender entirely all the guards estab lished by our ancestors, to yield advantages which are certain and immediate, and to rely on defences which are subsequent and contingent —(Hrar, Hear.) We are required to give tree access to the Priv ; Council, to the Judicial Bench, to open the doors of Parliament, to abolish the Test Act, winch the Prince Orange insisted on retaining when he as cended the English throne. I must confess, lam not one of those who consider old checks as inappli cable to new dangers, or who think that those sate guards erected by our forefathers, for the purpose of excluolng a Pretender to the Crown, cannot be use ful in protecting us either against a distut ber at home or the machinations of the subverter of empties abroad. After all that has been urged with respect to the oath taken by the Catholics, 1 cannot lay out of my consideration that the oath has been taken by very few without qualifications and reservations, and that an ecclesiastical admonition had been promul gated, instructing those to whom the oath bad been adamostered, that they ought not to hold it too CL.