Star. — London, England, 1812-03-06 00:00:00

t a 7 1, o. • 7. itk ' se 4r. bes hat :ess :et. Y(4 con lion; ivace• such► I Thsu, iot a ,lik e g rear.) at ill Stock ctioF ,tlxo cant a per' 1 that 'at the M 641 Dr thi , th• who it neee bt tO 1;0 .1 t .... I .; { indicted for felony, and the Jury found a verdict of Guilty against him, in which they were not jus tified :—it was a false verdict. They found him G u ilty, and the guilt was left open. to the opinion of the Judges I This was an irrational mode Of pro cedure. What! try a mar. for an offence, which the Mee himself does not know to be an offence ? Such things were, indeed, the snares of law. How was soy man to know whether such and such an Act Was cr ime, when Judges themselves did not know it ? Then came a.sort of pardon, not under the 'Great mil. The laws had said that a pardon should con tain the reasons for it, that it might be pleaded in a Court of Justice, and that the Judges might say whether it was good or not ; but here an easy mode was resorted to. The only notification was a short note sent to the keeper of Newgate, and then Mr. Walsh s r as at large. All this appeared to him to be irra tional and extraordinary. But with regard to the moral guilt—the exposition of disgraceful and dis gusting fraud—it was undeniable ;it was proved G o record—it was shewn in Mr. Walsh's own k, tter . How that letter was come by at the Post office he should not then enquire ; but should not do justice to himself and to his own honour, nor 'to any society' among whom he might be cast, if be did not consider Mr. Walsh an unfit person to remain a Member of any such association.— (Near, hear.) Precedents, however, would often justify any proceedings, founded, as they frequently were, on the proceedings of times of violent paity b es t s and animosities ;—and here he could not re ' Train from calling to the recollection of the House Some precedents of a recent date, instead of those more ancient ones which some chose to cite.— How was the case scme time back with Mr. Steele ? That gentleman's offence was the taking at two se veral times the sum altogether of £19,000 of the public money , of which no notice was taken, till something occurred on a change of the Ministry, When it was taken notice of by the Finance Commit tee. This, however, was ended by the dissolution of Parliament. Then, objections were taken to the no mination of certain original members of that Com mittee, whose opinions of the unfair use of public mo ney, by public agents, were pretty well known ; and in the re-appointment of that Committee, those per sons were left out. Mr. Steele, it was true, paid back the moneys but that was not done for some time af terwards; and it might be supposed possible, he ne 'ver had intended to pay it back at all. It was the duty of the House to have looked at the matter im. lrhediately; but no question was brought before the 'ouse. A gentleman who sat for a Treasury Bo roogli—(Ne, no, from the opposite side,)—in that point, then, as to what Borough he sat for, said Sir F. Burdett. I am mistaken. The Hon. Baronet then ob served, that he understood that the same. Mr. Steele was still in the receipt of £l6OO a-year. Then came the case of Mr. Hunt, who, to be sure, was expelled:l btu sufficient time was allowed him to get out of the way, and go to Portugal ; where he (Sir Francis burden) should have thought, we having every thing at our own command there, it was no difficult thing to get at him. From Portugal, as he understood, he went to the Brazils, where, also, we had power enough, perhaps, for that purpose. Yet this Mr. Hunt had two pensions rerlaining to him, as he un derstood, granted to him in 1802 and 1804, and amounting to more than a thousand a-sear ! After these, came a very gross case,—that of a Mr. Mills, who had been arrested for a very large .urn, and was a prisoner in the King's Bench at the very time when •hetontrived to be returned a Member of the House of Commons. His creditors petiti, ned the House, and stated all eise circumstances of their case : but the House thought it fitting to refuse their prayer ; andahey granted their high privileges to that Mem ber, and gave him the opportunity of cheating his creditors of £20,000, and of arranging matters rela tive to his seat in the House, and then setting off.— (Iftar.)—There was another case of a very extraor dinary and of the grossest nature of all that he had mentioned. From the greatness of the individual, the long duration cf his power, and the number of Persons who hid long been receiving benefits at his buds, it might excite some alarm when he mentioned that it was the act of Mr. Pitt, who ackaaced no less than 440,000 of the public Money to aro of his vo ters.—(Near.)—The time was, wherea Member of that House would have been called to order for the bare mention of such a thing ; for it could not have been endured that such a transaction should have oc curred : but now times were strangely altered, and they were told that such practices were perfectly jus tifiAble,and t h at they were in the spirit of the Consti tution. A good deal had been recently said respect ing certain important ' a measures relative to the uomes tic state of the country, of the Ministers not making such things Cabinet measures. However important such measures night be to the country, he knew of nothing more destructive to the Constitution than the system .of making' every thing important, what was 'ailed a Cabin e t ' measure. That was the case with respect to the transaction he adverted to. The pre sent case, compared to that, was as a mole-hill to a mountain, in the view that Parliament should take of it , fort itThis . was simply the case of a man rendered soctety, by becoming a private cheat ; where as other was the case cf a monstrous misapplica tlln of the public money to Mr. Boyd and Mr. Ben -41% . or . t he purpose of Parliamentary influence.-1 ) 1 o justify this, was set up the shameless Petence of supporting public credit !—(Hear, hear, 1 Nun the opposite side.)—He understood what was *leant by the cry of Gentlemen opposite. He would sa7. howev er , t h at if t h at act di d support t h e credit ' of t h at . t0 :70 Government , the Pariiament did not, in pass-1 1 . 7. c . er, support its credit with the public.—(h ear .), thought it extraordinary to Pear from an Ho- 44 calie Gentleman (Mr. Hume) that if Parlia arellt voted to expel Mr. Walsh, on the circumstan- ' ces before them, they might go on to enquire into the ' l3O l conduct of three-fourths of the country. If th at Was true, they were living in a very extraordi tarY state of society indeed. If that was really the " of society in general, be should think that it be 'frt!etenfold mor e necessar y f or P ar li ament to k ee p ; or 7, col _ illation from itself, though it would be a of some hazard to undertake the punishment of these offenders, if they amounted to three-fourths of the country. It put him in mind of the dialogue in between. La 4 Macdu ff and her son. The acd li l e urres—" Must they all be hanged that swear " Every one," says the mother. Who illult lung them ?" asks the child, 0 Why, the ho- I. • nest men, gays the Lady: 'te Th . " tbetars - and swearers are fools," rejoins the boy, t‘ foi there are liars and swearers enough to beat the honest men, and hang them up l"—(al laugh.)—He had endea- ' vourekl then, to explain his opinions, and the reasons of the vote he should ere, which was on no other ground than his abhorrence of the conduct of Mr. Walsh. if the House had any power of expulsion, they had a right to exercise it in getting rid of one, who, in public esteem, was evidently and totally tin worthy to remain in their society. This was his opi nion, who could not be supposed to entertain very high notions on the subject of their power and privileges. Mr. HERBERT could not see how the House could punish a man merely for moral guilt, unless they went on a broader scale, and visited the higher crimes: otherwise they might act severely to the poor and mildly towards the rich. He did not dispute that Mr. Walsh's act mint be highly criminal; but it was not so by the law. fhe indefinite epithet " disgrace ful" was emphatically attached to it.: he did not deny its propriety; but how many different opinions might there not exist as to the applications of that term, ac cording to the different feelings of different people ? He recollected in Mrs. Macauley's History an anec dote of Henry Martin, one of the regicides, who was caned in the lobby of the House of Commons by the Earl of Northumberland, for opening a letter of his Lordship's at the Post Office r, and the historian ex pressed her wonder that the House of Commons did not expel him for submitting to it. She thought it , disgraceful: some persons might think it disgraceful not - to go to church ; and others might think the same of illicit intercourse with the sex. He saw no end to proceedings founded on conduct considered as " dis graceful." He knew nothing of Mr. Walsh ; but he thought the grounds of the motion insufficient.— 1 Crimes of much greater moral turpitude and injury) to society were passed by, and it would be too much to begin the moral ground of expulsion on an offence of this description. Mr. ABERCROMBY opposed the motion. He thought that the House should attend as much to the danger of setting a had precedent, as to their feelings of indignation at the immorality of the action of which Mr. Walsh was guilty. As to the right that the House had to expel its Members, that had been settled by long usage. There were three great classes of cases upon which they had frequently been called upon to exercise that right. The first was, in the case of contempt of the House itself. Without the right of expelling in such cases, the House would not be safe, as they had no other tribunal to which they could look for protection. The second class was; breaches of public trust. In these cases the House exercised its jurisdiction on sound and solid principles—for as it was one of the primary objects of that House to take care of the public purse if it appeared, that any Mem ber appropriated to his private purposes any public money intended for the public good, the House was certainly called upon to inflict its severest punishment on the offence. There was another class of cases— when persons had been found guilty, and punished for gross offences. In these cases the House paid that re spect to the sentence of the laws, and to the laws them selves, as to think a person so convicted and punished, to be an unfit person to sit in that House. This case, however, was widely different :—there was a record of conviction, bet-then it was incomplete, as there I was no judgment upon it. The Counsel for the pri. soner preferred the reserving a point to taking a spe cial verdict, as that might have been brought before the House of Lords, and occasioned a great delay, during which time qr. Walsh must have remained in imprisonment. If it had been a special verdict, there would not have been a conviction. As to the mere immorality of the act, he thought that principle might be carried to a most dangerous extent. If they were to go to the Courts of Equity, they would find innu merable instances of persons confessing themselves to have been guilty of breaches of trust ; and it would be very hard to draw the line, and say what sort of a breach of trust should make a Member liable to expulsion, when another sort did not. It was said, however, that the notoriety of the offence should de termine the punishment. It appeared to him, how. ever, that it should rather be determined by the na ture of the offence than the notoriety. He thought that it was a dangerous principle to leave the House to determine on every separate case by the feelings of the moment, as that course might often lead them to determine in a manner that would be very dan gerous to lay down as a precedent. Mr. WILLIAMS WYNNE admitted, that the question before the House was one of very great im portance, and demanded the most serious considera tion. Certainly there were many difficulties to be guarded against in making a new precedent, but he did not see any that would arise from the adoption of the Motion. In his observation he did think that the House confined itself in questions of expulsion to the principles enumerated by the Learned Gentleman who had just spoke. The funds of the Charitable Corporation, which had' been misapplied by Members of the House, were not public property, but the con tributions of individuals, and they were, notwith standing, declared unfit to continue to hold their seats, and accordingly expelled.—(flour, hear.)—ln the case of Mr. Walsh, his guilt was established be yond a doubt, and the circumstance of no sentence having followed his conviction, ought not to prevent the House from treating him as it had other persons in his situation. In regard to what had been said of a general verdict having been taken, subject to the opinion of the Judges, instead of a special verdict, he remembered that an English historian related a similar circumstance having taken place at a trial for High Treason, in the year 1753, under the direction of Mr. Justice Foster, and that the other Judges very much censured him on that.occasion for his direction, as did Lord Chancellor Hardwicke afterwards, when applied to for a pardon under the Great Seal. At present, however, the House had sufficient evidence of the moral guilt of Mr. Walsh,. by his letter, which he himself professed to write, not to justify, but to palliate bis conduct. But what palliation did it con- tain ? Not that he was sorry for having committed • the offence, but that he could not get Mr. Oldham's money, instead of Sir Thomas Plomer's.—(Alaugh.) His excuse was a perfect cant of sentimental mora lity, set up against the dictates of true religion, which he conceived to be the prevailing fault of the present age. He (Mr. Wynne) did not with to palliate the ' moral turpitude of the crime of adultery, but he did not think the House had the same right to punish it in its own Members which it bad a breach of trust. Ur. CHARLES ADAM that ;e ever there was a Case in which the House shouldanalte a prece dent, it was that then before them—the case of a 1 1 Member of the House, who, with his family, had been long patronised by a respectable Gentleman, whew/ friendship h e requ i te d b y ro bbi ng h im of his property. 1, (Hear, hear.)—He trusted the Honse world not dis grace its own character, by longer keeping within its walls such a degraded delinquent. Of their tight to expel him there could be no doubt, for there was not a society in the kingdom that could exist, were they not possessed of such a power He did not know how others might feel; but for his own part be should feel very awkward on coming in contact with the Gen tleman who was the object of the Motion—(A laugh.) Mr. LAMBE trusted that the House was not to occupy itself in making precedents for posterity, but to decide upon the individual case before it. Mr. WHITBREAD said, nothing should be more practised ce ( inculcated into the minds of the rising generation than a strict observance of a trust. Upon the case before them, he believed there was but one opinion ; but if the House meant to pr teed vindic tively against Mr. Walsh, it could not-dolt more ef fectually than by rejecting the present Moiion,and compelling the Hon. Gentleman to attend daily in his' place—(A laugh.) That would be found a sufficient punishment for him, and therefore he would oppose the motion. He might be told that the public voice demanded his expulsion ; but Gentlemen had fret quently denied that public feeling should be Always gratified, because it was frequently founded in erro neous conceptions. For that reason he should not gratify it now. At present the House had no grounds whatever to proceed on. Was Mr. Walsh guilty or in nocent in the eye of :he law ? He was innocent, and was that House, under such circumstances, to proceed against him fn. that of which the law had acquitted ' him ? He wished the House to attend to a passage in the Judge's letter, recommending a pardon. " The facts of his having ; formed the design of converting this money to his use, pod of actually converting much the greater part of it,aveee proved without contradic tion." But did that a4sout to a crime ? He was told by some of the best I.lllw Authorities that it did not in law. Supposing all the circumstances to be as they were, and that through the newspapers the public were acquainted with them, but that Sir Thomas Plomer declined to prosecute, was there a man in the House who would bring forward any charge upon it ? Would the Honourable Gentleman himself, with all his Parliamentary experience, venture to make the motion which he had to night ? He believed not. As to what had been said of every society having a right to expel obnoxious Members for immorality, or any other reason, and frequently from caprice, he did not think such a practice a good guide for the House to follow. Mr. Walsh had been already expelled the Stock Exchange for nefarious prac tices, but many who might join in this vote might be as guilty as himself. Had his name beessginerased from the list of Privy - Councillors, that we not be a sufficient reason for the House to expel him. He concluded by stating, that he should not give his con rcurrence to so arbitrary a measure, es the expulsion of a Member without evidence of his g wilt. The ATTORNEY GENERAL said the offence and crime of Mr. Walsh went beyond that of a trustee who through poeerty was cempetted to appropriate to his own use the property of ethers. in this case the off-nce was the result of a settled and deliberate plan ; it was an instance of a man looking round him for an opportunity to plunder, who, failing in one at tempt, had recourse to his benefactor, and had rob bed him of a large sum, because he thought that he (Sir Thomas Plomer) could do without it ; a more cool and deliberate case of villainy never before exis ted. He was convinced that the House, in the vote which it would give this night, would not be actuated by any fear of popular clamour or hostility; it should never be deterred from doiniits duty. He gave his decided vote for the Motion. Mr. ELLIOT said he would vote against the mn tion, on the ground that it Was not sustained by the verdict of the Jury. Mr. HAWKINS BROWNE, conceiving that the House was governed by the laws of immutable justice, would concur at ith the Motion. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the only question was, whether the person, after the commisson of such offences, was fit to be i IMember of that House ? There were many cases of I breach of trust, which it would be unwise for them to take into consideration ; in this case, however, he saw no danger in establishing the precedent, that such a breach of trust as this, which partook of the crimes was sufficient ground for removing the guilty person from the Hom... With respect to the observation made by the Hon. Baronet, regarding Mr. Hunt's pension, he begged leave to state, that it did appear on the esti. mates, but there was a note to that item, which de. clared that the sum was not applied to the individual, but to the public service. The reason of the sum not being totally .withdrawn was, that, at the time of making out the estimates, there was some difficulty in procuring an .Order in Council for its appropria tion ; that Order, however, was since procured, and accordingly the pension was destroyed. (Hear, hear.) He concluded with expressing his intention of voting for the motion. Mr. BANKES, in reply, observed, that the moral guilt of Mr. Walsh, and not his legal crime, was the ground which he had urged for his expulsion. The House then divided—For the Motion 101— I Against it 16—Majority 85. PETITIONS TO THE PRINCS REGENT. Mr.WIiII'BREAD, seeing the Right Hon. Secretary of State in his place, repeated the question which he put yesterday even.' ing to the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer, respect• Ing the petition which bad been alluded to by a Noble Lord (Lord G. L. Gower) in a former debate. Mr.RYDER stated, that having received a letter from the Noble Lord, informing him that he had a Petition wipeout from certain Manufacturers to the Prince Regent; he answered, that the usual and reguLT mode of presenting a Petition was at the Levee, but that he could nut Inform him when the next Levee wnulds take place. If, however, the Noble Lord was anxious that the Petition should be immediately presented, he request.il that he would transmit It to him, and said that he would place it in the Prince Regent's hands as soon as possible. Mr. WHITBREAD wished to know, whether the Noble Lord had communicated to the Right Hon. Gentleman thst it was the wish of the persons who signed the Petition, that it should be presented by him (Lord Gower) Mr RYDEEL said, that he had received no such comennoica tion.—Adjourned at Eleven o'clock. PrtiCE UP STOCKS THIS DAY AT ONE ds-Cl.UtAik 2 per Ct. Cons. for moser6oo—Do. far ate. 60i 11 5 per Ct. Scrip Subs. if pre.—Bemis 161. pr. uch. Bins as. Gs. pss.-5 pa Ct. 9Qfj - • - T-,41 4,4 4 1 . ; . • , • r . # I 1 THE t\TtNINIC .LONDOI'I. 42 1 9 FRIDAY, MARCH 6. 1 ., The Eliza Packet has airived at Falmouth. frocia%New•VOlV She sailed on the 11th ult. and has brotight American Papers to the 10th, as well as dispatches from Mr. Fosr ea to Ministers.— The aspect of affairs at the seat of Government in America, is a little more pacific. No mention is made of the temporary In tercourse Bill, but it is easy to foresee, from the nuineroes peti. dons that daily pour • Into Congress, from merchants who say they have contracted for the purchabe of British goods, that a I trong feeling of partiality will prevail in Congress in behalf of the measure when it comes to be discussed. The prliate letters which we have seen, still speak in the same way of the fluctua tion and distraction of pubic opinion, both in and out of Con • grass, on the subject of a war with this country. The probabl lids* hotwever, are all on the side of peace, with a continuance of a restricted intercourse between the two Count, les, even with an the artillery of our Orders in Council. " HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, FEB. s. " The petition of Mr. Leonard, of the listrict'of Main., pray ing libery to4mport, from the Island of /aftsales, certain tacit purchased before the 2d of February list, was presented by Me. Widgery, and by the House referred to the Committee of the whole, to whom had been referred the bat embracias that subject." " NEW YORK, FEB a. " By the arrival of the schiooner salon, at Bishinterre, In days,from Bourdeaux, we learn that the President's Message bad been received and published without comments. Markets for rice, line cotton, and flour, was it dallars per cwt. U 'Pod States Bank—lt is stated in the Baltimore F. deral Gazelk of Monday, that a Motion was made in the Senate of the Unstrl &ates on Saturday, by Mr. Brent, (from Vtrguna,) to Ake into copildera don the propriety of establishing, or reviving a jiatiosisl link. " The Frances, Bass, of Charleston from New Yost, sad- a long pilot-built schooner, with a white streak, from Philadelphia, passed up. Captain C. has brought diTatches for Government— did not learn that arty material change bad taken place in the po. !ideal relations. Affairs were supposed to wear a more favourabla: aspect. Markets rising -42N no cruizees on the passage." " FROM Tile MgRCANTILE ADVIMTIIIII or Tut art.—'' ' l Arrived on Tuesday the brig Ambition, Shaw, * days from IV% Grande, for New York, in distress; on the flier January tape rienced a severe gale, which sprung the bead of her nuimnast, broke the tiller, and carried away the foresail and jib. Captain S. informs that all the Spanish ports in tharpart of the Maio were shut against the the English on tie lath Decensbir." A Mail from Anho't arrived after 1121, Paper was atiress. by which we have received the following letter : " ANHOLT, FEB. 27. " The German Pap►rs are still stopped; but we have latdti genee from Hamburgh, that it is generally believed there that war will immediat ?I. be declared by France against Sweden. " A Ir gate tuts to lei from Copenhagen fur the cos% at Norway, it is supposed for the purpose of joining the son-boats there. Several naval Danish Officers have also lately tone over.. land there. " Aecoun•s from Petersburgi state, that the levy of 150,00* men ordered some time since, baa been called out for organization." Dutch Papers to a late date have been received. They con. taro a new Decree for giving activity to that powerful instnutsent of domestic misery and foreign conquest—the conic iption. The Officers are to be selected fr o m t h e ancient military corps of Holland. A Decree has been published lo the Grand Duchy of Berg, ha which NAPOLEON, to the exclusion of his Nephew, the GRAND Duet, assumes to hims e lf the 'Sovereignty. by ord ering the exe. nation of the same In his own sole name and unifer his own sole authority.—By this In.trument he takes Into his hands all the ma.ndfactured or unmatinfutured tobacco which shall be ffound in the territory, and all the machines, implements, he. employed upon it, for which, he says, compensation shall be made to the proprietors. The Marquis of Mafioso yesterday tee/Nod his wand of office at Carlton House, as Lord Chamberlain to the Pa s idea Re... OZDT ; and Earl CIIOLMONDIILt Y. at the same time, received the wand of office u Lord Steward of the Household ;on which oe• casino) their Lordships had severally the honour to kiss his Royal r Highness's hand. The First Battalion of the 69th Regment In Portugal. bee been completed to 1200 rank and fik, by a draft from the %resod I Battallo6, the remains of which, under the command of Lieute. nant-Colooel LINDSAY, hate returned to England, in full ex• pectation of immediately filling up their ranks by volunteers from the Militia. We yesterday stated that Mr.lfase bad carried to the Stock Exchange a proposal from the CIIIANCELLOI of ilte Rzenagoaa, for raising ,66,739,62.1, by Navy S per Cs*t. Annuities, in addi tion to the sum of £5,431,700 subsctjbed in Eachapter 14011 In the .month of February last % The following are the Terms Every Subscriber of the Exchequer Bills funded as above-rnen• doned is to be entitled to contribute a farther sum, at the rate of gigs for every £lOO contributed ; £lOB 1n S per Cent. Stock, to be added to the Stock crested by the above subscriptioo, and fa bear interest from the Sth of January, 1812. Payments on each £lOO subscribed to be made as follows ; 1812, March 18, payment of • - - - stIO April 24, ditto . . . 10 May IS, ditto . to • June 26, ditto July 24, ditto -- - - 10 August 28, ditto -- - • 10 Sept. 25, ditto -•- • 10 gctober 16, ditto -- - - 10 Nov. 27, ditto - - - 10 Dec. 31, ditto -- • - - ---Xi 00 10 A discount to be allowed o f 4 per Cent. ass the whole advanced beyond the instalm en t s in the usual Manner. money Exchequer Bilis dated between the Ist of March, ISt 1, and 14th of February, 1812, both inclusive, with the interest due thereon, will be received in opyment of the contriblition. A book will be opened at A Bark for receiving the subscrip tions of those who may choose to avail thernsehrea of the option ; and It will remain open fie that purpose front hlooday the ola of March, to Monday, 16th of *spree°. mouth, Nast- "h"--- If the parties to whom the coffer le igir s ky scribe the whole sum of .E6OBO - the Chancellor of the Exchet nubile at large, or to robe pfete the said sum of £4,711 The discount on pay' done at 91i—New FALICAITN, Ma peared off this ranean convey, hence bound day to Jolla Rupaourn, ARCM 4 Connect; Jaates.vartel, Frencb cottyutprivate ► cts IF. %64 i. 1111%.. J itO her •+ Plow at lat I , verb Mnrlaa-t(spoliss*; Wi pt French cuttspprivateer, about Mid C• • • el) 61 ... 0 fait sloop of 'Au-, from a mdse. The sthisrn takes convoy to Oporto, and wiUspil the • 4iii• Diaz., MAaou S.—Came down fro • Riecgl) Indiimip, and three oth er s hi p', and ran • 4 rot slocrpof war, from Pertanieuth, sailed for different Put .• the ElphinstonteEan In and to •• • 1"' 1 1 . COllO4 MALLET, M ARL RCN .17 ' • Market has wain fcw fresh art{ hest, fully maintain fate prices. Barley lie supply • . 4 ** higher. Malt and White Peas continue ansltuctvase Inst I Beans of the two Untie we likewise named virile dearer. T are also but short supplies of Oars, waiting arrivals not many ' are effected, and those quoted at a anal: adiance. 'lour at prices.