Star. — London, England, 1820-06-27 00:00:00

• vett this calamity, the Parliament of this totititiy, would return to its ancient character foi dignity and moderation—(Hear, hear)—and that, in the course , of this painful examination, the Houseof Commons would exhibit itself in its proper attitude, without any of that angry feeling, which, however much it might belong to politics, ought to find no place in this subject—(Hear, hear).—These, he assured the House, were the feelings on which he grounded the motion, which, he begged to give notice, he would bring forward, If in the meantime no judicial pro :eedings were instituted by the other. House. He wok the entire responsibility on himself, but he did r o t intend to embarrass them with any different x o .. lr se of proceeding, if any other were adopted by the other House—(Hear, hear). Kr. BROUGHAM said, he concurred, from the iierrom of his heart, in the appeal which the Noble Lord had just made ; and in imploring all sides of the House, from that moment henceforth, through the whole course of the now inevitable inquiry, to let the voice of party cease—( Hear )—to suffer no factious, personal, or political feelings to interfere in the prosecution of this question ' • in order that no shadow might be said to Cros s their path towards the attainment of substantial justice !—(Hear, hear). (L the part of her Majesty, he had to express his in• finite satisfaction, which he knew to be the reflected image of her sentiments, on finding at length that there was some chance of her obtaining justice on con stitutional principles—on finding that there was an end of that dark, inquisitorial, unjust, unconstitutional, and illegal proceeding, which it was the tendency of the green bag, accompanying the Message from the Throne, to institute against her—(Hear, hear!)—Her claim, from the beginning, had been for an open in quiry; her protest had been against an invisible Tri bunal. Ile had, however, not to thank the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) for this favourable change. He had to felicitate Parliament, the country, and herself, who had declared with one unanimous voice, that that secret trial should net take place—(Hear, hear!) After saying this, he would say a few words in reply to some observations of the Noble Lord ; and he must begin by stating, that although it had been his. lot viten to admire the great talents and tactics of the `Noble Lord, he had never, till that night, had an e?poltunity of knowing, to their full extent, his sub tlety, dexterity, and sophistry ; for now he would have it appear that they were to go into the inquiry, not because there was a charge—not for the purposes of justice—not in compliance with the Message from -ene Crown, nor the voice of the country, nor even in deference to some over-ruling state necessity, that t';e7 were now to go into the inquiry; but because )3 Saturday her Majesty requested they should do so. 'll.e Queen had said, last Saturday, that she defied :a I open inquiry, and put herself on Parliament and tae Public for her trial. But was that the first time that she had said so? Had she not stated it as clearly in her Message to that House, the very first day she had heard oT the proceedings against her ? Why then had not the Noble Lord, a fortnight or three weeks ago, complied with her request ? A month ;ign the Queen had requested, had challenged, nay, had peremptorily demanded an open investigation— hut the Noble Lord refused the challenge. Something, however, had happened to change the Noble Lord's determination. He had now found out that a Queen could not decently be put upon her trial by a subject; and all, the House were told, was made easy, because her Majesty had asked to be tried ) a request which the Ntwie Lord could not in gallantly or politeness refuse ! (Hear! and laughter)..--Often as he had had occasion to notice the dexterity of the Noble Lord, lie had never seen so marked and signal a specimen if his powers as in the management of the present case. The Queen could have nothing to wish for but a public inquiry. She had constantly and ar dently courted it, and by its result her Majesty vas prepared to stand or fall !—(hear, hear! ). *The line chalked out by the Noble Lord was most vague and undetermined, but yet enabled the House to perceive that its proceedings must depend on those (1 another place--(Hear). The Noble Lord had ob s.n.ved that her Majesty was the first Brunswick who Ltd turned a deaf ear to the solemn determination of Parliament ; and when he had stated that determi nation to have been adopted by 391 Members, he might have said by nearly .500, for upwards of 450, flough they disapproved of one part of the Resolu tions, had concurred in its main object. That main object was the solemn and now recorded opinion, that let the proceedings terminate as they, might, they must be" derogatory from the dignity of the Crown, and injurious to the best interests of the country."— The Noble Lord attempted to do away the bearing of that vote, by saying that the refusal of her Majesty must force the Inquiry upon the House. The Queen could have no objection, and he (Mr. Brougham) as her Counsel, could have no objection to go into the inquiry. But it was the duty of the House to pause for one moment on the expressions in their Resolu tion which he had just quoted. They had said that the inquiry, in what way soever it might terminate, must haveconsequences derogatory to the dignityofthe Crown, and injurious to the best interests of the State. And the Noble Lord himself, to the astonishment of himself (Mr. Brougham), of the whole House, and of the Country, had been the first to concur in voting that Resolution ; thus condemning, in the clearest terms, the very inquiry which 'he had proposed. In stead of following the usual course, and asking leave to withdraw his motion, he had thought it an easier mode to step aside and to get rid of it, by declaring it to be derogatory to the Crown, and injurious to the State. Whether thus situated, the House should be prepared to say that the inquiry was necessary, be should not pretend to say; but only one event had ever been urged to justify its necessity. Her Majesty had come to England, and thence, and thence only, arose that painful necessity. No other ground had ever been even pretended ; but because she bad come t,ver, the inquiry must commence. Whether her Majesty had been wisely or unwisely advised, he :.1, , ,a1.1 not stop now to consider ; be should only add •mlenin assurance, and he gave it, not to excul 4,ate any one where no charge heed been made—not to I,llrink from a responsibility, which be should wish ca the contrary to assume, but for the sake of her Alajesty's character, to which he deemed it material t ..it the whole truth should be known, he gave his ,hems assurance to the House, that before her Ma i ty Lad been laid all those considerations which the ~. ..-It.dge which her advisers possessed of the pro of Parliameut had enabled them to suggest. . . The state" of tie els; (hiring the nignciations had beta compered with what it was before and had since become, and above all, every fact bad been urged to establish in her mind that conviction, which had never been absent from it, that the • fusal of the proposition submitted by the ' must lead to a certain and full investigation. %, all these considerations before her, her Majesty, with that fearlessness of accusation which nothing' but the conviction of innocence has ever been known in the records of history to inspire, pronounced her own firm, deliberate, and undaunted conclusion to abide by her demand for a public trial. She might have been the first Brunswick who had refused to comply with the wishes of Parliament; but let the House also recollect, that she had been the. first Brunswick, the first Queen of England, nay, of Christendom itself, who had been placed in such a situation. Addresses had been carried to the feet of other Queens, but far different in their nature. They had been Addresses of Congratulation, or of Con dolence, or it most had prayed for the removal of some unworthy favourite. But the Queen had felt that this Address called upon her not to give up the Abject of mere caprice, but to dismiss all regard for her own honour.. She felt that she could not make the sacrifice required without also sacrificing her character. He mentioned this in mitigation, if not in vindication of her Majesty's refusal to comply with the recommendation of Parliament. That House, which had in some way been repulsed by her Majesty, and in some measure offended, would, in the course of a few short days, become her Judges. If he had before implored Hon. Members to dismiss 1 all party feelings, he now still more urgently and pe- 1 remptorily entreated them to dismiss every feeling of offence—(llear, hear! front Me Ministerial side). — It seemed that the Noble Lord intended to propose in his motion some measure of a Legislative nature to meet the inquiries'of the other House. On this ground he should lay a claim to delay in behalf of her Ma jesty. Let not the House draw from this an erroneous conclusion. He should not have ventured to make such a proposal, had not the reasons for such a claim been most just and satisfactory. The Queen was anxious to proceed, and for her, and on his own ac count, be should deprecate all delay; but one was rendered necessary by local distance. It was a journey of three weeks to the place of her Majesty's late resi dence, and three weeks back, to bring the witnesses and evidence necessary for her defence. Should the House, therefore, proceed on Thursday se'nnight with the inquiry, how would her Majesty be in a condition to meet it ? Five or six witnesses on the side of in culpation might be examined, and all on that side of the case would be over. If this partial inquiry were open, all the country would see its nature. If it were secret, it would be still worse ; for a secret intrusted to twenty-one Members in one House and fifteen in another, according to the common adage, had little chance of being kept. How would any man like the honour of his wife or daughter to depend on the secrecy of thirty-six Gentlemen who had wives and daughters of their own, even should they be the most honourable of men ?--(Hear, hear, and laughter).—lt would be impossible that some portion of the evidence adduced should not leak out of those orifices fee emittinr crets which were found in every family ! If That evidence would issue out, more or lila; its, venom would circulate fully throughout the co Let any man place himself in the position of her Mn jesty—let him fi gure to himself the inevitable Ms character which must ensue from this interval three or fourmonths, before the exculpatory evidences for her Majesty could be produced ? He therefore a claim to delay ; but let him not be misunderstood, it was a delay which would not retard for one hour the ultimate result. It would only allow the two parts of the inquiry to come nearer together, so that no portion of the evidence should be divulged until wit ne..ses were at hand to enable her Majesty's Counsel to cross-examine, and to proceed with the trial. He trusted the House would excuse his entering into' these explanations. He had been desirous to show that the delay was not one of judgment, but one justice, and was essentially necessary to the case.— He called upon every Honourable Gentleman to lay to heart the last observations which he had submitted to the House. They might not strike at once, but their effect would be the more deeply felt, the more time was allowed for their consideration. He now congratulated her Majesty, the House, and the coun try, on an open and public inquiry having at last been granted. The Queen had never been afraid meeting such an investigation, but, from the begi ning of the proceedings, had never ceased to claim and demand it. Colonel PALMER had voted against the late Re solution, because he thought that it called upon her Majesty to do that which he would not hip done himself in her place. He now conceived that, con sistently with that Resolution, it was the dutycf the House to desist from the proposed inquiry. He dis approved of the omission of her Majesty's name in the Liturgy, and considered it, not only as an insult to the Queen, but as a serious charge against Minis ters, at a time when they spoke so much of the pre valence of revolutionary opinions. He declared that the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Canning) had produced a still deeper impression upon his mind of her Majesty's innocence, that the convincing arguments used by the Hon. and Wined Gentleman who appeared in the character of hersid : -, vocate. For how could he resist the representations which fell from one of the Ministers of the Crown„ l and one of her Majesty's accusers ? Had he not said that she was the grace, the charm, and the ern& meat of society?—(Hear, hear!).—Had he not toliC the House repeatedly of his respect, esteem, admira-I tion, and affection for the Queen?—( Hear, hear). — If she deserved such a character from so excellent a judge when she was still in the fervour of youth, he could not believe that in her age she could have done any thing to forfeit it. But why, instead of talking o his feelings for her Majesty, had he not acted upon 'them? —(Hear, .hear). He would then have per formed his duty more effectually both to his Sove reign and to her Majesty. If it were possible for the Crown to obtain a divorce, he might consent to an inquiry into the present charges. If it was, in fact, an investigation called for by the whole country, as in the case of the Duke of York, it would be stre nuously opposed ; but the whole country was against it, and, therefore, it was to be forcibly carried into effect—(Hear, hear). Mr. BATHURST defended the conduct of his Ma- N-I House I VVith ;Laileite ge—. 6.l tut ;•• - ..„ . • jesty's - - Ministers through the whole of the present unfortunate business. Ile contended against the Pos sibility of 'not taking some ulterior proceeding, and 'stated, that if a Bill should be introduced, sufficient time would be given to the parties to ptipare for de fence; so that when the ease of the prosecution should close, that of the defendant shOuld confluence Mr. WESTERN eructed his protest 'against the motion of the Noble Lord, because he conceived that its effect was to draw the House, directly sor indirectly, into an approbation of those measures, .and.into an inquiry which the whole country con demned !—(Hear, hear)—and which the general sense of the House, on the first night of the discus sion, 'had also decidedly condemned. Why had' the whole country expressed an opinion that the proposed inquiry was one .which ought net m be gone into ? Because the Noble Lord, after having represented the charges as of a criminal nature, hqJ declared that they were capable of being negociated and settled by an igamicable adjustment—(Hear, /rear, hear)—Thii was a prOceeding altogether ano malous there was no case of a similar nature. lle, believed that op to the present moment the decision of the House had been correct and tight, and had proceeded on a principle of justice towards the Illns trious Individual whose conduct had been impugned. —Now that the hope of an amicable adjustment had ceased to exist, the question of adjournment assumed a different shape, because it tended to sanction the proceeding of inquiry altogether, which the House hpd originally condemned. He entreated the Muse not to involve itself in the proceedings which might be adopted in another place—(Hear, hear). It had hitherto done its duty—let it not commit• its charac ter. Let the Noble Lord bring forward new projects, and let him give'time to the House to consider them. With this view, he should move, in Amendment to the proposal of the Noble Lord, « That the debate be adjourned to this day six months." The question having been put, Mr. S. WHITBREAD said, he objected entirely to the measures that had been pursued by Ministers since her Majesty's arrival in this country, and more particularly to the motion brought forward this day --(Hear, hear)—because it appeared to .him that Ministers, by proposing measure after measure, and scheme after scheme, were endeavouring to delude the House into some sort of sanction of what they had done. In opposing the Resolution of his Hon. Friend (Mr. Wilberforce) the other night, he did so, not because he would interpose any bar to an ami cable adjustment of their differences, but because, when that Resolution was put into plain words, it amounted,to this, that the Queen should submit to a gross insult, which must have the effect of degrading her for ever—( Hear, hear).—With the same feeling be now begged leave to second the Amendment, which, be felt no doubt, would be approved of by the country. Mr. TIERNEY said, that the Noble Lord had, on a former night, mistaken a shake of his head for a change of opinion, which would make him more cautious how he shook his head in future:—(A laugh). The last words of the Resolution appeared to hub to be most extraofdinary, and he denied that the con of any of the branches of the Royal Family tenld derogate frorwthe dignity of the Crown. The sense of the House had clearly been, that the inquiry should not go on. It would appear that the House was to be absolved from the inquiry, and that it was to be transferred to another quarter. But the Noble Lord was not entitled to ask for relief from that dial adty in which hii own rashness had involved the House, the Crown, and.the Country. It was only last S a turday that the Noble Lord had, by his ges tures at least, intimated a that some proceedings should take place this day. But, on Thursday se'unight, the ' Noble Lord would make a motion, different from all he had made before, unlesv.the other House should interpose. The House would be degraded if the Noble , Lerd were allowed to escape censure. Some entry at least should be made in the Journals, andhe hoped his Honourable Frinid (Wynn), who so com pletely understood the subject, would turn his at temion to it—(Hear, hear). Was that House to be so far degraded as to be obliged to wait for what should take place in the House of Lords ?—(Hear). If that were the case, it could only be upon the prin ciple of the homely saying, that " one good turn de served another." For the last three weeks, the Lords had been waiting for them, and now it appeared that they were to wait for the proceedings in the Lords. The Noble Lord had said, that he submitted Papers to the House, not. to support a charge, but to see whether any charge existed. Such an outrage, he, believed, had never before been offered to Parlia ment. Though the Noble Lord must have known the contents of Me bag, he then seemed to have doubts ; but at present, he appeared to have none so all. If he was to be believed now, he formerly trif ed. with the House; and ithe was not to be believed now, how could he be believed then? Such a course proceedings could do anything but satisfy the coun try. All the difficulties had ansen entirely from want of firmness on the part of Ministers. Had they -the , evidence which they stated to be in their possession,' way had it not been brought forward? And, for the last twelve months, they must have been in pos session of the evidence from Milan.' What then came of the dignity of the Monarchy, when the charges had only been made public since the party accused had become Queen ? All had been done by the Ministers, as he would take upon himself to say, that the Monarch who then sat upon the Throne, was the last who would iniulta woman—(Hear). — No answer had been made to the complaint of the Queen, as to the omission of her name in the Liturgy —none to her denssind for a yacht to convey her over, and a Palace for he residence when she arrived. No ittliempt at conciliation had been made till Ministers bad beeudriven to it by their fears. He was not sur prised at the failure of the negotiation, as no woman, however inclined to live abroad, would have consented to it upon the terms proposed to the Queen. One sii.zere friend would have done more in, one hour than all the Duke of Wellingtons and Ldrd Castle reaghs in a year !—(Near, hear, hear).—lt was too much for Ministers to ask, whether the country should be convulsed, because no equivalent could be found for the omission of the name in the Liturgy P which equivalent could have been found by any set of men but themselves. The question fin. the House to de termine was, whether Ministers were to be supported, or the country to be tranquillized? The feeling in favour of the Queen was so general, and all owing to . • 'be conduct of Ministers, that it wits impossible a fair trial could be had. If he might borrow-an allusion front legal proceedings, for.the purpose of an impar tial trial the venue should be laid out of Eti,;land.—• It was his Majesty's Ministers who had brought the feelings of this country into the state in which they were at present. They had set out in a way which !side it appear that her Majesty was oppressed, in stilted, and degraded; and, in consequence, the feel-. ing of the r eople of this country was, " by this wo man-we will stand, because she is an ill-used woman." :Had they pursued a manly course—had it been known, that her head was likely to be struck off in 'the next Week, so the head, while it was on, had been treated with respect as that of the Queen of England, the people would have shewn that reverence lor•the law, which they were always accustomed to shew .when they believed that justice would be impartially itilministeted—(/fear, hear).—When the Queen was spoken of as having taken'too high a tone, it should be redlentbered by whom she had been taught to take that tone. She had learned it from those who had pleaded her cause in 1807. She had then called for trial, and demanded in be acquitted or proved guilty. She had then been taught to tell her accusers that she would bear of no cumin omise, of nothing but the full restoration of her rights, of being re. instated in the favour of the Sovereign, and re ceived at his Court. This was the language which she had held when it suited some of the Hon. Gen. tlemen opposite to be her advocates—(Hear, hear):— yet it seemed to excite in them some surprise, that now, as then, she should claim to be considered in nocent! The evils 'which threatened the country might yet be avoided, by pursuing one course, which he would point out. He knew that a loud shout . would be raised when he stated what that was: it was a change of Ministers!—" And, so help me, GOD!" exclaimed the Right Honourable Gentleman, 6 I believe this country will never gain a state of tranquillity till the Ministers are changed !"--(Hear, hear!) He concluded by condemning the mode of proceeding now proposed to be adopted. To call on that House to adjourn the consideration of the sub ject till Friday week, unless some proceeding in the other House should bring it before them at an ear lier period; seemed to him a step as degrading to that House; as any that could by possibility be re. commended to them. Mr. MARTIN (of Galway) deprecated the whole tenour, as u ell as the conclusion of the Right Hon. Gentleman's speech, for, even admitting the complete innocence of the Queen, still it svas the duty of Mi nisters to afford her Majesty an opportunity of vindi pating that innocence. The conduct of his Majesty's Ministers in this respect, resembled that of' the Clerk • of the Crown who puttlie most humane construction' on the facts which called for his official interference —(A laugh). The Hon. and Learned Attorney-Ge neral opposite (here Mr. Broughain inclined his head to the Hon. Member), could set him right if. he was incorrect in the assertion he had made. The Queen bad infinitely the advantage in being the accused and not the accuser--(A laugh). The Hon MeMber next observed, that those who advocated Parliamentary Reform were the least competent to decide upon the merits of the present question, upon which, some cries of Order ! order being raised, he sat down, saying, he would not deliver another word, as he was inter rupted—(Laughter). Lord MILTON assured the Hon. Member, that though he was among those who had Galled out "Order!" vet he should be the last mars to interrupt the Hon. Member from any other motive than one that was quite admissible by the usage of Parliament. He, therefore, hoped that his having said'this much, wouldobe a sufficient explanation to the Hon. Member, and induce him to continue his speech. Mr. M A RTIN then resumed, and closed by stating that he expressed -his anise concurrence in the of gina od NU GENT mo tion. Lord ENT said, that it was his determination to vote for the amendment of his Honourable Friend. —lt was a motion for delay to-such a period as was well understood in that House to be a mode of al together disposing of the question. The delay pro posed by the Noble Lord opposite could not, he hoped, be successful. It could not but be offensive to his Majesty—it could not but be offensive and inju rious to the Queen—it would be, if agreed total subversion of the principles of public justice.— But whatever was his opinion as to thequestion now before the House, he could not but agree in the sen timent with which the Noble Lord had concluded.- that it was highly- necessary for every Member to enforce upon himself the duty of keeping his mind disembarrassed of every thing which' might tend to mislead him in the inquiry; which might prevent him from giving a cfispassionate and impartial deci sion-upon the great question in agitation. He now meant to put the sincerity of his Majesty's Ministers, in their declaration upon this point s to the test. For many days past, that part of the Press which was supposed - to be under the influence of his Majesty's Ministers, teemed with paragraphs calculated to er• cite the stronget prejudices against her Majesty, and to injure the course of public justice. He requested the leave of the House to read two passages from a Paper of that day, which were of the most hob. bible and disgusting nature.—( Hear, hear, hear)... The passage to which he alluded was in the Morn iag Post of this day. After a long paragraph, and a very offensive one, the writer thus proceeded • England ought not to be involved in mierffor au Alien and an unworthy object I"—(Loud and indir nant cries of Hear, heat). The " unworthy object" was then stated* to be the taking into consideration the necessary measures on the subject of her Ma jesty. But what, followed was still more heinous. It poi:weeded...4 , And as the Queen alone stands in the way of an arrangement, we say she (night to yield to the universal good, we care 'not whether as a martyr or a criminal I"—(Lostd ,expressions of He would nc t now make any further com ment on this atrocious 'and diabolical sentiment, which, to say the least of it, violated the first principles of public justice l—(Hear, hear, hear). — He, therefore, called on his Majesty's Minister% if they had any regard for public justice ; he called upon the Right Hon. Gentleman who had expressed his ‘4 gfectioss for her Majesty ; he put it to the tense of the House, whether they would allow this para. graph to go unprosecuted by his Majesty's Attorney. General? —(Hear, hear).—lt they did allow It to go unprosecuted, they would - not do their duty ;if they did, he would judge in his own discretion, whether ' A .; .1 • • ~w '~~ It'