Star. — London, England, 1820-07-18 00:00:00

• tion on the OM of his 4lajesty's 'Ministers with re-, aspect to her Majesty - having every requisite accom modation. I am sure the feeling and good sense of the country will bear me out, when I say, that if ! her Majesty had conducted herself with that Welts% I, which became her sex, and that dignity which-be ! longed to her station, his Majesty's ,Ministers would be most anxious to afford every consolation, which a Queen, under such circumstances, can expect. But when her Majesty condescends to listen to the meanest adviser,s, when she suffers herself to become an in strument in the hands of the basest populace of the touttry, who have presumed to insult the Palace of - her Sovereign and her husband, as I had an oppor tunity of witnessing in my - own person, I have no hesitation to declare, in defiance of every taunt that the Hon., nd Learned Gentleman may throw out in this House, that I should abandon the duty which lowe to the dignity and honour of the Crown, were Ito ad• vise the Sovereign to become the dupe of such artifices. If her Majesty's present residence in town is not suit able, I am 'persuaded that an difficulty will be thrown in the way of an arrangement by which her Majesty may find herself, not iudeed in a Palace, bet in such a residence as her presefit situation may lead her to desire. It is most painful to me, as I am sure it must be to the House, to embark in a discussion cf this nature; and if the House suffers itself to he dragged into such discussions whenever a discontented Mem ber of the Royal Family chooses to approach it, it may happen, that in-disastrous times a pretty ample harvest of the most perilous as well as the most de grading topics will be forded ups, us. If assertions are madiron the one side, it may become the duty of the Ministers of the Crown to make assertions on the other, and I will leave the House to judge of the painful situation in which we should be placed. by such a course of proceeding, where the private trans actions of the Royal Family were involved. With respect to the plate in question, it is so far from being property of the description stated by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, that it was no more the intention. of his law Majesty to give this plate to the Princess of Wales, than to give her the Palace ,&t Kensington. So far is it from being the property of her Majesty, that some part of it is actually old plate of King William HI. which was used at the Palace of Hampton Court. The use of it was even restricted to Kensington Palace, and this fact is very gravely and learnedly entered in the books of the Lord Chamberlain, " A list of the King's plate in loan to het' Royal High ness the Princess of Wales, at Kensington Palace." This is tha official entry, and it is so specific, that if at any time the Princess of Wales carried the plate to any other residence, she exercised a larger discre tion than was warranted by the condition of the loan. As to the observations which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman has thought-proper to -make upon the answer of the Lord Chamberlain- to the application made on the part of her kl.jajlistam so far from thinking that answer either .atrA or in. decorous, that I know of no °flier answer which, under *all the circumstances, Lord fl ircourt could possibly have given. If - the Honourable and Learned Gentleman had exercised the common diligence which might base been expected from a man of business, he might hive discovered that this was not the first time that her Majesty had claimed the plate at the Palace of Kensington as her property.-- When she was about to quit this country, in the year 1814, she had - actually ordered it to be packed up, and sent to the Continent, and if the Lord Chamber-I lain had not interfered, it would have gone out of the country. If this- had happened, 1 am nut aware, but primps the Honourable and Learned Gentleman can inform the flem,e, by what proceeding it might have been brought back. In the year 1814, a letter was received, dated Geneva, September 28, from Sir William Gell, her Majesty's Chamberlain, directing that the necessary steps might he taken to send to her i Majesty, without delay, the plate left at Kensingtool Palace. The Lord Chamberlain replied, thin upoO reference to the books of the Office, he did not feel himself authorized to permit any part of the property to be removed. His Majesty's Ministers have every disposition to afford her Majesty Whatever may con tribute to her ease and comfort; and I am persuaded . that no difficulty will arise with respect to an arranr meat of plate, when her Majesty has selected a snits; able residence; but I must again deprecate every at tempt to lacerate the peace of the country, by sekan tonly renewing a discussion of these-painful topics. I feel that I have already gone beyond the sphere of my duty in detaining the House so long upon this subs ter. I have been provoked to a breach of my duty, I have been provoked and dragged, .l.sy the taunts of the Hon. and Leareed Gentleman, into a detail of circumstances which ought to be conducted by the sole authority of the Crown, and never to be made the subject of Parliamentary controul. If the Hon. and Learned Gentleman bad experienced any diffi culty in communicating with his Majesty's Mini- sters—if he found them inaccessible, he might have had some pretence for 'bringing forward this motion after the lapse of a fortnight. The letter of Lady Anne Hamilton. which I cannot but consider as a most extiaordinary production, is dated the Ist of July.— As to the assertion that the plate is the property of the Queen, it may as well be said that the King is able to dispose of my estate, as that he was able to give the property of the Crown to her Majesty. Un der these circumstances, I trust the House will cordi ally join with me in giving a negative to the motion.", Lord A. HA MILTON said, that the acts of owner ship on the part of her Majesty, furnished a strong presumption that her Majesty believed the plate to be her property. He would ask the Noble Lord whe ther the peculiar situation of her Majesty was such was calculated to give her any sanguine expectations of justice from his Majesty's Ministers? The con duct which they bad putsued towards her, was one continued course of insult *ad degradation. There was another circumstance, respe cting _ which he wish ed to say a rew words. By a Mornieg Paper, which maintained the opinions of his Majesty's Govern ment, and which was understood to receive their protection and support, it had been proclaimed, from one end of the kingdom to the other, " that her Ma jesty stood is the way of the public good, and ought to be got rid of, either as a martyr or a ern -hitter — Ought not Government to redress the wrong thus in• flicted on her Majesty ? If they had the power to do so, and yet refrained, were they not highly culpa ble? He repeated, that it appeared from the Noble Lord's own statement, that every step which had been takeu by her Majesty respecting this plate, Was • . I cannot believe that this will be stated ifs, ar,;antent on the other side, because I cannot suppose tt 'possi ble that his Majesty, who Isaibeen so long separated from the Queen, could ever be persuaded to avail himself of such a plea. I pray this House to consi der whether I am not justified in calling upon it to render its aid and assistance to her Majesty under these circumstances. If the decision of this subject svere left to the judgment and feeling of the Noble Lord, unbiassed by. any other adviser, such arc the sentiments which I entertain of the Noble Lord's li berality, that lam confident he would be the first in titis House to assist her on this occasion. I regret t l . , at his Right Hoeourable colleague (Mr. Canning) has left the House, because I might have appealed to him, with the certainty of obtaining the powerful aid and assistance of one, who has expressed his re gard and affection for her Majesty. I think the House will not expect me to press this subject farther, or to enter into its more minute details. I shall only add, therefore, that at the present moment there is not a single article in her Majesty's possession which is not hired —(hear, hear!)—and which is not ut terly unadapted to her rank and station. "hope the House will feel this, and give me credit for stating the truth, without entering into further detail.— Feeling, as I do, that the domestic concerns of any 'branch of the Royal Family can never be pried into with a nice and scrutinizing eye, without infinite in jury and detriment to the best interests of the cotto ny, I trust the Noble Lord will spare me the neces sity of persevering in this course, not by coming for ward with reasons of State, but by admitting that the circumstances of this case have been misapprehended, and by giving an assurance that au order will be im mediately issued for the restitution of her Majesty's property. Sure I am, that if this course be adopted , by the Noble Lord, it will be congenial to the feelings of a great majority of this House, and most satisfacp 'tory to the people of this country. I shall conclude by moving -01 That an bumble Address be presented to his Majesty, pray ing that his Majesty may be graciously pleased to direct that there be laid before this House, Copies of all Official Papers relative to the Service of Plate presented to her Alajesty the Queen, by his late Majesty, in the year 1308, and used by her lisjesty till her departure from England, in the year 141-i." Lord CASTLEREAGH said—" I regret very much that I happened to be absent when the Hon. and Learned Gentleman first made his motion, and I regret still more the course-which the Honourable and Learned Gentleman has thought proper to adopt in making this motion. It is true, as the Hon. and Learned Gentleman has stated, that a letter was re. ceived from her Majesty's Solicitor-General, inti mating that it was intended to make a motion upon this subject, but surely in a question so intimately connected with the domestic concerns of the Royal homily, it was the duty of the Hon. and Learned GenCeman, if his object was really to obtain relief for her Majesty, to have exhausted every means of obtaining information, before he proceeded to tail the attention of Parliament to the subject. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman has been good enough to do justice to my matins, and I am unwilling to impute any improper feeliag to him, or to suppose that he has been actuated by other than honourable motives; but surely it would net bow bear a-very extraordi nary act of courtesy in the Honourable and Learned Gentleman, if he bad entered into some communica tion with his Majesty'nGovernment. I will ask whe ther it would not have been more consistent with a fair Parliamentary course of proceeding, if the Hon. and Learned Gentleman bad abstained from making an actual motion, at a time when there was no in dividual Minister of the Crown present who could give the slightest information on the subject? The Hon. and Learned Gentleman is placed in a peculiar situation, and it is perhaps my duty to suppose that a person in his situation, with reference to her Majesty, acts under instructions hear). — Looking at the Hon. and Learned Gentleman's course of proceeding, andus far as I am able to collect from the substance of his observations, in which there is somewhat of the same acrimony of remark - as in bis former speech, though I am bOund to suppose that he acts under what he conceives to be a sense of duty, yet I cannot but add, that if his object were to in flame the public mind, and to reinforce that sort of appeal to the worst passions of the country, and to the populace who hurried through the streets even to insult the Palace of the Sovereign, that object could rat have been more directly pursued than by the course which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman has thought proper to adopt. If the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had used the commonest diligence that became him in the situation of her Majesty's adviser, he would not have made a speech pregnant with the grossest ignorance of every circumstance of the case; he would have probed to the bottom the facts of the case, before he threw a firebrand into the public mind and the feelings of the country, and suffered himself to be made the vehicle of such a-statement to the House, at a time when he knew there was no Minister present sslas could give him any information upon the subject. The very fact of my being absent, and I charge my. self of course with The-responsibility of not being in the House to do my duty, ought to have restrained' the Honourable and Learned Gentleman from asking a single question upon the subject. Standing . in the situation of a Minister of the Crown, and anxious as I am to uphold the dignity and honour of the Crown in this House, even the Honourable and Learned Gentleman himself must feel that I have not ex pressed myself more strongly than the nature of the circumstances demands. Now, with respect to the circumstances under which the filings of House Are again to he tortured,' and the peace of the coun try agitated, befog... , I come to this very novel discus sioitiaioa the internal affairs of the Royal Family, I apes to observe, that although the Honourable and !Learned Gentlen3an could not wait till I was present , n the llotoe, this is a case of three weeks standing. understand, upon inquiry, that so long ago as the Jet of July, my Noble Friend at the head of the Go ernhrcpt an intimation from the Lord Chamberlain that an inquiry had been made as to her 14.1j*ay having the use of the plate which was for merly in her occupation. This communication took place at the same tine that an application was made for a suitable resideace for her Majesty, sod it was naturally understood that the plate was to be used in the house fur which her Majesty aeplied.—. •lhe ulna) t readiness existed on the part of MP Ms' S Government to enable her Majesty to procure t , suitable residence ; an d I state t hi s , b ecause i t wi ll ".ira• that there-could be no groat spirit of persecu- i taken under the firm conviction that the late King he therefore deprecated an attempt on:any side had given it'to he r , and th a t it Was lie! Own. And timidate. In what had fallen from him, he trusted here lie must say, that it would not be inconsistent that he had not said one word which might appear v.ith the liberal- feelings of the Nobe Lord, of the to commit him on the merits of the case. He most Adaiitastration generalitt a trr their Royal Master, had sincerely hoped that her Majesty would come out of some means heeraadopted of supplying her Majesty's the investigation as pure as her warmest friends could wants in this respect, without compelling her to have wish her to appear. He most sincerely hoped, that recqprse to the expedient of hiring the necessary ap- if she should appear to have bean persecuted, let pendages to her table. This fact, along with the nishreent and dagrace might Le heaped on-ber per. rest, must go to the Public, and added to his firm secutors. But all lie asked, and all he demandisd, aas (conviction, that there never was. and never could ' • impartial justice; anti teat no means of intimidation he brought before the notrae a subject so unfortunate should be resorted to, tither withal those walls Or and so injurious to the interests of the Royal Family elsewhere; because any such pr; ceeding would have and the country at large—(hear, hear). • a tendency to prevsnt the great Public Authorities Mr. MARTIN (of Galway) rose to make some re- from fulfilling the sacred duty eattusted to them ply to the many misrepresentations and injurious ca- Lord A. HAMILTON explained, that his lima luninies uttered on this occasion by the Learned Friend who spoke lest had inter!rretel his *olds Doctor against his Majesty'S Ministers: If it be true, somewhat too largely. The Noble Lord (Castle. (said he) that the Queen is obliged to hire the corn- reagh) had contended, that the King could make vo monest articles of furniture, because these funds are present of plate: if so, he (Lard A. flamiltoa) ad withheld from her Majesty which might put the mitred that there was nn foundation for the motion ; Queen of England above such degrading wants; if but he did not by any means allowthat the does- • those funds are withheld by the Administration, why meats referred to by the Noble Lord had made out not, he said, bring that subject under the notice of the point he had insisted upon : on the contrary; he Parliament ? He should zrssume then, until contra- (Lord A. Hamilton) was of a totally different opiaton, dieted, that those funds were provided ; he hoped, for he thought that the King could make a aresent and this. House would expect that they should be li- Mr. S. WORTLEY said, that he had never entered berally provided. If this be the case, he would ask the House with more painful feelings than to-night, who had advised her 7.llajesty to lay aside all that because, if what the Hon. Gentleman (Dr. Luslang appearence of state which became her rank ?—Who top) had assert::) on Saturday were true, he should had advised her Majesty to travel through this capi have felt bound to accede to a vote of censure upon tal, from north to south, and from east to west, in a Ministers—(Hear, hear).—N,Av Ire, the country, and vehicle not better than a hackney chariot, drawn by the Learned Gentleman himself, must be relieved a pair of wretched horses, and a squalid iedividottl from that impression; and he lioped it would ape mounted on the box, and thus to masquerade, as it rate as a lesson to the Houie, and to the country, were, round our capital? The Queen, he said, had how it placed confidence in attempts to delude and a house and equipage, and what befitted her rank. mislead under a false feeling of compassion. He He said she had, for her Majesty had the' funds ne- feat called upon to acknou ledge that some steps had cessary to purchase all these—(Hear, hear, hear.)— been taken by the Queen, as if for the express pur- The Learned Doctor would have proved himself an pose of creating agitation--(Loud cheering).—He honester adviser of his Illustrious Client, had be re- believed that the motion would not h tee, been commended the manifestation of decent splendour, brought foravard had the lion. Geralemaa been ac rather than by corning here to tart Government for queinted with the facts of which. I,e was now in, subjecting a Queen of Englander) privations against formed ; as it stood .t present, it seemed introduced which be must know it was in her Majesty's power to excite inflammation—Wear, heat). to provide. It was manifest, he said, from the car- , Mr. HUSKISSON wished to offer a few remarks Tespondence, that , the plate which was the subject on the point how far the Crown could part with its of discussion, was lent, not given, by the late Icing property in the hands of the Lord (chamberlain, with to -the Princess of Wales—Wear, heall.—Then, it out the sanction of the responsible advisers of the lent, he would ask this question—Was the Lord Crown. A warrant signed" by the'C'rown, and coun- Chamberlain requesteJ .by Lady Anne Hamilton tersigned by the Lords of the Treasury, had always again to re-lend this plate for the Queen's accorn- been considered necessary to convey a right to a third modation ? No I The plate, not the property of party. From his own personal knowledge, in the of the Queen, was demanded from the Chamberlain, as ficial situation he held in 18)8, he could take upon if the Queen was its legal owner; and no wonder himself to say that no such formzllities had been ob that, so demanded, Lady Anne- liamilton was an- served with regard to the plate in einestion. When swered that the King had not ordered the plate the matter carne before the Treasery he had himself to be removed from the 'Jewel Office—(Hear).— suggested that there was in the custody of the Lord As a Member of that Honourable House he expected, Charnherbria sonic plate of the time of King William, he said, that the Queen would have funds liberally which might be renioaalled for the purpose of 1 ro placed at her disposal, or issued to her Bankers; for valing the _then Princess of %reties with a t ers ice, this he had not to learn, that when we abuse the which was to become her property no mere than Queen we in some degree degrade the King—(llear). the furniture or linen with which she was provided But here, he said, he paused, for he was not prepared in her apartments in Konsineton P.tlace—( Hear).— to say, that under the calamitous situation in which It had always been tteazed as the King's plate, lent the King and Queen were placed as to each other, to the Princess of Vales far her use. When 'the that it would be for the honour oi' either that the Duke of Cambridge occupied apartinclas in .‘at. King or his Ministers should be ostentatious in offer- James's Palace, furniture alai plate had been sapehea, ing naked compliments; Compliments humiliating to through the Lord Chamberlain ; but se hen his Royal the one, and not of real service to the other—(Hear). Highness quitted, in consequence of the fire, and To explain, he would pay, he said, twenty thousand went into a private residence, the plate had been re pounds a-year to hire e house for the Queen's resi- turned to. the Lord Chamberlain—(Hear, hear).-- deuce, before he would compliment her with an old No servant of the King, without a warrant, could Palace, fitter for rats to inhabit than the Queen to oc- es en have removed the plate at Windsor Castle, avid copy !—(Hear, hear, and laughter). Although the an entry must have been made in the books, stating Learned Doctor seemesi mainly ignorant of all that its destination, as the public property of the Clown. he ought to have studied before he brought on this It was claim clear that the plate in question had never motion, yeah. (Mr. Martin) hoped that he had better been intended as a personal gift from King ; for than hearsay evidence to this important fact—that tire King had no power to bestow it, unless it were the Treasury had issued ten thousand pounds for the paid for out of the privy purse. • Queen's legal advisers--(llear, hear, and laughter). Dr. LUSHINGTON replied. He hoped the House Mr. C. H. HUTCHINSON remarked, that the would have the candour and the kindness to indulge question now before the House had not the remotest him with a few words,—(Hear, hear). He would trot connexion with the great case on which Parliament occupy its time by answering the observations of the would soon be called upon to decide. He regretted Noble Lord as to the exercise of his humble talents ; that this point had been brought forward, because it but be woeld say, that his appointment as an adviser was calculated in some respects to inflame and prejus of her Majesty had been unsolicited and unsought on dice the"public mind, and to interfere with that im- his part : however incompetent he might be, be should partiality which justice demanded. He gave credit at least dischar ge his duty with integrity and zeal— ' to the Noble Lord (A. Hamilton) for the candour of (Hear, hear).—he owed it to his own justification to his concession, that, taking.for granted that di; state- mention two or three facts, On Friday last, for the ments of' the Noble Secretary would be confirmed by first time, he bad becoine acquainted with an' thing documents, a case had been- made mg which formed relating to this subject. and it was arranged between a sufficient answer to the present motion. In his (Mr. the Solicitor-General of the Queen and himself that Hutchinson's) view a more complete case had seldom the former should bring it forward on Saturday. It been established—( Hear, hear). He had been present was not until late on that day, that he was apprized on Saturday, when the Honourable Gentleman (Dr. by the Solicitor-General that he should be compel- Lushington) made.his first statement upon this sub- led to leave London, and, consequently, that the ject, and he must say that the reports in the public task must devolve uron him (Dr. Lushington).— channels of informatics's were given with their usual He had-himself suggested the propriety of sending fidelity. From them it would appear that the Ho- notice to the Noble Lord, and when he came dotvn nourable Gentleman was most strong and pointed in to the . House on Saturday he had asked the Chan 'the terms he had employed; and it was to be le- cellar of the Exchequer if the Noble Lord were ei merited, that, befoie he had thus indulged in expres- pected? the reply was, that it WAS not exactly known. sions calculated to mislead and inflame the Public, He was waiting the arrival of the Nable Lord when he had not endeaVoured to obtain some more accu- the Speaker called upon him, and then he had to rate information than that with which he was sup- take upon himself to decide whether he would bring plied. It did not now seem that the epithets of it forward or postpone it indefinitely, for be did petty, mean, base, and despicable, were merited by not know at that time that the House would be the conduct Ministers had pursued—(Hear, hear).— required to sit on Tuesday. 'A is it at all fit, that In some respects, the conduct of the public Press de- out of respect for the Ministers, lie should forfeit served severe reprobation ; and if Government pos- the duty he owed to his Illustrious Client ?—(//ear). sessed the power of punishing, they ought to put that! It had been asserted, that motions of this kind were power into exercise. Passages had appeared, that made for the purpose of inflaming the passions of the went almost to encourage the destruction of wit.' People, apd exciting prejudice and agitation out of oesses against her Majesty ; in fact, if a foreigner were , doors ; but, had he been aware of any other mode in of late to have read our public wints, he might al- ' which the Queen could have obtained tile use of the most have concluded that no law existed to restrain; articles of plate she required, lie should not haVe he. them. The witnesses had been called eiyiints perdue:, I sitated in adopting it. As far as his opinion we nt , and when it was said that .they would return from he was far indeed from- wishing the Queen to court the retreat to which they had been sent, it was added, ' public favoir, cxceit whea a deep and ripe necessity nous uerronsi as a doubt whether they would ever compelled; but in the intercourse of her Maje•stv dare to shew themselves again in this country. He with Ministers, she had' not diet with that liberal was anxious for the correction of all public abuses— ; treatment to Which, as' a Sovereign, she was entitled. he was a friend to economy, and an enemy to Alien He appealed to the justice of the House and of the Bills; but he was not to be deterred by any attempts country, if, when her Majesty hid required a yad tto at intimidation; and, mute qui coute, he was resolved convey her to England, the answer of the First Lord to discharge his duty on this, and all other questions,' of the Admiralty, that the King was out of town, :Ind with fearlessness. He lamented sincerely that the that no order could therefore be made, was decorous subject itself had been forced on .their consideration. .or becoming ? It was the duty of the Noble Lord If it had not been grossly mismanaged, it would have • to have waited upon his Majesty without &Ain ih been kept out of the public 'view. That mismanage- I order to take bis• Royal pleasure upon the puini,.. 4 . meat had excited the present flame and spirit in the Surely this was no great encouragement for 1 4 * public mind. Those considerations now, however, Queen to rely upon the liberality of Ministers as to came too late. Parliament 'were now called upon to her private comfort and conveniences--(illear, tee I. rtue.oul.ce an impartial judgment on the case, and; The Noble Lord had said, that the motion was foun,ed N .