Star. — London, England, 1806-05-07 00:00:00

• 4 _.•. . . _ . ender the AR. As one criterion of 'their einallty he would only late, that out of i 1,000 men railed pre vious to the pa of January lafl, more than aOOO had deferted. With regard to the means that were em- Pored, he looked upon them as entirely unfuitable to 'lie end in view. The parith officer had very dif faent duties to pertorns from that of railing foldicrs, and MI habits and purfuits were evidently fuch as unfitted him for fuch an employment. Inftead of men being railed by local influence, the effeas had been, that crimping was encouraged, and the boun ties had undergone no diminution. The general are , age of the men fo railed b a d co lt t h e country thirty ,deo pounds for each, and t h e f e ra il e d on ly for a li- I inked time, a fpecies of f er vie e , w hi c h t h e Gentle men oppolite had reprefented as ureters to the country, and dangerous to the army. Another obje& of the 4 AEI had been fisted to be, that of releaang the re v cruising fervice of the army from the competition to which it had to-en before liable. But in oppofition i 1„ to this be would Aden that immediately previous to the operation of the AR, the recruiting had been car ried on at the rate of 6000 a year, while Muting its operation it fell to 400 e. All the great objeas which bad been propofed by the authors of the Pa. rib Bill had completely failed t and be amid there fore Weirs thole Gentlemen who profeffed In much reps& for the memory of the Right Honourable Gentleman (Me. Pitt) who brought it in, to confider at leak as much the objeit that that Right Honour. able Gentleman bad in view, as the means by which be hoped to obtain it. The objeet was to raife men I but in this rape& the bill had failed. He mutt, therefore. confider it as a lirange way of hewing their relperk to the Memory of that Right klooeur. able Gentleman, to overlook the policy and Moak. Joel for which he bro.& in that bill, and to winkle perfevere in the means which had hiled la argue. sag that elk& which* had wilhad. The oppefition that the repsalof the hill now experienced, proceeded, as he fuppekd, from that natural pertiality• which ~ men will feel to 'Drawn which they themfeivellia, aroduaed, however thdy 'mei& fail set their operation. The Noble Lord (Ltd Calltereash) had Paid it was unfair to reprobate the principle alibi periflabill. on . account of the 'balks 'of it. It was, however, only by thole shahs that the hill could be made t• pro duce any mem. The park\ officers went to the i in, fpeaing . riffican, and requeded they would finish them with mcraiting redcoats, or, in other words. with'etimps, and without thole crimps the bill gelid nos have prodddsd any men. The *berm then of the bill were in fa& the principles ofin operation.— As to the ceconotnical argument, rehretking the ex ”nee of making repayments. of .thofe hens which had. been levied from the patifhes as penalties, he thcnght, that if the Noble Lord agreed that the pe nalties now due lieeld settee levied; he molt alto agree that it would not be jolt Of kr to ptutifit thole pantiles who had been quick and•ready in paying their penalties, and to exempt thole who had been dilatory and negligent. He, therefore, for thefe magas, flsoold rapport the motion. ' Mr. BASING TON , laid, that it ilairgiltekion able that theprovifions Ofthe bill had their objilt ' to mile men. laud of wttl the hal had only ope. rated to relic money, In the Cemety of Leicelkar, he ' knew that thole two hundred men, that were 'lead bj the returns on the table as twin bah railed kr panfb officers, were in fall only headed over by the recruiting ferjeants of other corps, Is men that being. under fine, could only be admitted in this delkeiprion of force. Five guineas a man Was Om to a retruit. big officer for getting perfons of that dircrilition. and the bill was never in that county confidered to be • any thing but *bid to rail. money ln the writhes. — The apportionment that was made of the men to be railed in the rerpettive pennies, was not on the pro portion of their population, hut of their wealth and their ability to contribute. He therefore thought the bill had completely failed ID its propofed objeas, and ought to he repealed. Colonel. BAGWELL was averts to the plan which the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Windham) bad propofed. Mr. I.EE began by fisting, that although by the ifreturns on the table, it appeared that in the county he had the honour to reprefent (the county of Wa terford)t the panes officers had railed above too men, yet he could fay, from his own certain knowledge, • that there were not two men railed in the county in that manner. The number was entirely made up of men under - the fire of five feet four inches, who had I been handed over to the Patifb Officers by the fee. t Jeants who had been recruiting other defcriptions of • fervice. In England there were no lefs than rode ' teen counties, in which note man had been railed by parish officers I and in the large county of York, ' which'eught to have produced 5674 4 rest more than 407 had been railed altogether within the left eigh teen months. He thought it was a great objeCtion 1 1 to the 11111, that in the courfe of eighteen months , it could not be underftood by thrift whole duty it wet to execute it. On the (core of economy. it was molt ridiculous to lay it down. that only flatten guineas should be given as a bounty to a perfon enlifling for general fervice at once, but that twelve fhould be given to thole who entitled for this force, and ten more if they fboold go from that to the regular I army. It was only cheating murders, and picking , our own pockets, to fay that we were ready to give the fame man twelve guineas in the morning, and ten more in the evening, or to put twelve guineas in one of his hands, and ten in the other, but to fay at the fame time, that upon the ground of economy. we could not think of giving fuch a bounty as twenty-two 1 guineas at one time. It would be coddled by every body, that the efficiency of the Bill was rather in the ! breach than in the obfervance : it was by the infra:- i tion of the law that the °Nee and policy of it was , obtained. This was a fyflem fo contrary to all ideas i of morality and good government, that were there ' I no other reafon he thought the Bill ought to be re- i pealed. As to the plan that had been propofed by ; the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Windham) 1 I as a fubftitute for this Bill, he mutt fay that, gene- rally (peeking, he approved highly of it, and t h i () i i i i h m t i e t a fu would re b b tl e r l t i h k e e r l e y w t a o be v s on ea part e r rT of ili i tcli,een and t never could agree to, and that was permitting foldiers to throw up their mulkets, and retire during the continu- . anCC of the very war in which they had been enlifled, if their term of keen years had expired. This was a part of it that he knew a great many of the Right Hoot Gentleman's friends would oppofe ; and as for hitufelf, he hould rather rejeß :he plan altogether 1 • . • than admit Arch a prineipk. As to the Par Bill, however, confidering that it had failed in all the oh jeas for which it was introduced, he Should certainly vote for its repeal. Sir EDWARD HARTOPP Paid a few words in praife of the zeal and alacrity with which the County of Leicelter, which. he had the honour to reprefent. Rood forward on this and every other occalion to fe cund the views of the Legillature. Mr. PERCIVAL (spoofed the Speaker's leaving the Chair. He coofidered the prefent fyllem to be better than any which had been pia/poled to be fhb fiituted for it. If the Right Hun- Gentleman (Mr. Windham) had thought this Bill fo bad in Hell', or , fo unconneded with other parts of the military fyf tern, he certainly need not have delayed fo long in moving the repeal. The Right Hon. Gentleman, however, by his condo& in that 'deka, (hewed, that he confidered it neceffary to nate Tome other fyfiem to the Houfe, before he called upon them to repeal that Bill. He could not therefore complain, if the Gentlemen on that fide of the Hoofs Ihould think it neceffary to examine a little what kind of Albin tute was to be prefeneed to them. The Right Hon. Gentleman had appeared to agree with the author of the Bill, that sothooo men was about the number to which the army of the country (honk t be railed. The areny.adually exifling.amounted to afiyarmo, which, in point of number, was not much inferior to what he himfelf thought heed:try. As to every thing elfe which confirtoted the excellence of an army, high (pith. genii ffifcipline, and fo forth, the Right Hon. Gentleman keened to confers, thaLettclaing was want ing io the Britillt army as it now Good. Now as to the nunsber, the (mall defisiency which, now tented would, in the courfe of a few years, ,e fupplied by the Settler operation of the eliding ('Rem. The annual wills of the army, by askance. was reck- oned at tsaaoo. On the other fide, jhe general re cruiting fervice produced, on an. average, 11,000 every year, and the Bill that it was now propufed to repeal. produeed,'at the towel calcillistian ' 'o x, which left a regular increafe to the army of Soon annually. The plan, however. which was propufed in place of this fylicas • was one that, pima facie, did not premife any incre ak at all. Although the B:11 had not been productive in' many parts eitEngland, yet it was allowed that in Ireland a confiderable number of men had been railed under it : but al though the repeal now moved foravis only the Ad ditional force Ad that alit:led England, yet if that was abandoned on the ground of its being eboozi ids, oppreffive, and tyrannical, there mull be 'a Moiler Bill for repealing the Additional Force Ad far Ireland. It was not to be fuppnfed that a tyf tens fo obooxieds, as not to be', endured in this country, was to be rivetted on Ireland. As, to the Noble Lord (Lord H. Perty), t who complained of the Bill In much on account of the hardlhips the parifhes fulFered by its !netlike, ftirely the No ble Lord would not think that that alone was a foffi• cleat radon for repealing it. He would put it to' . that Noble Lord, would it be [efficient ground for opprifing his own meifures of. finance, to fay that they peened hard on the country ? The Noble Lcrd would not admit fuch an argument as condone(' 'sawing his to per cent. Property Bill, Which was fupported on the firange and fanciful idea. that is was more coofoliog to the teenage of, the 'within, to, fee at once how high the tax could: be 'carried,' without going itirtanp,h any gradations of increafe. The Noble Lord would certainly reply, that he knew limb.* tax mull prefs herd upon the peciple I butt be did not know any other that would produce what was wanting with lefspreffure. It was upon. that principle that he fhould defend the Bill that it was now propokal to repeal.. He Tho.aa fay, that he knew no other fyltem more likely than the prefent to obtain the number of men that were waiving. It was rat ing it low to fay, that with the aaillance of this Bill, no Ws than twenty thoufand reciuits were obtained annually. Be Mould then elk, had ever the ordina ry recruiting fervice, withom that Alliance, pro duced that number If not, the excefs mull be at tributed to the operation of this Bill. But fuppofing that the Bill Ihould be repealed, and in the coterie of the next year it was to be found, that inllead of an increafe in confeqnenee of the plan of the Right Hon. Gentleman, it &mid prodoce an ahfolute di minution, what then mull be dime ?.. If the plan fhould tail, it was evident that they moll then have recourfe to compulfion of Come fort or another. He thought Gentlemen that felt fo tnetehaendernefarmo ' eantriffion for the hardfhips to• which the pariflns were now expofed, would do well to confider what they mull be expofed to next year, if the plan of the Right Hon. Gentleman fhould not produce the elle& he eipeeted. In fuch cafe they mutt either have re. condi to the ballot, or elfe to that fort of coMpol- • lion which ells upon the purfe rather than upon the I perfon. The ballot would certainly he more oppref- I five than the ptefent Bill, for fhould the balloted men -find fuhflitutes, there waald be precifely the fame quantum of money kind upon the panffies, but in a manner much - more unequal and oppreffive to indi. 'ideals. As to the plan that had been limed by the Right Hon. Genileman as a Inhltitute for this mea fore, there was no certainty of its being adopted by Parliament, and therefore if the exifling Bill was repeated, it would be poffible that there would be nothing to fet in 41 place.—( Crier of hear, bear, from eler Afinifferial Bench.) —However clamouroully Gen tlemen might cry hear, hear, he mutt fay they had produced no documents to influence the Houk, and that it was too much to mita them to ail on their prejudices alone. He could not but complain of the Houle betng deptivtd of the authority of the opinions of the General Officers who had been contented. He underllood, however, that with the exception of one, ; all of them had been againfl difcharging foldiers in time of actual war. He Ihould alk the Right Hon. Gentleman, had not the officers of artillery been con ! fulted?Had they ant adually remonftrated l( Mr. Win d: ham anfwered, No.) He had really uncle:flood that they had, and that they dated, that before a man had been ten years in the Artillery he was not fit to be a ferjeant, and that is was between the tenth and twen tieth year of fervice that they were the molt Pitiful. As to the part of the plan which was to . prevail,upon the men to re-enlifl for a teemed per iod of fevers years, he thought it could not be adopted. The Right Honourable Gentleman had not propored to give any feeond bounty, but only an iacreafed pay of fispence a week. Could any pietism [two& that this fispence a week would have as (nom_ an fired 111 a' bounty of lutirleen guineas ? OicottM 'stay 0.51 • •••• • : fancy, that the annuity of fixpenCe a week was the 'value or that bounty t If any of there men writhed to re4nlill, they would certainly , go into another regiment and take the fecond bounty. What was the Right Honourable Gentleman's idea with re (peß to the Volunteers, he could not pretend to fay, he did not know whether he meant to encourage or difcnurage them. The Right Hononrable Gentleman had profeffed, that he rather writhed that the number of Volunteers lhould be increafed, but he could not . fee how that with was continent with the opinions he had fo often delivered upon that fubjeet. For his j own part, he was as warm an advocate as any man j for the olunteer Syltem, which he eonfidered the ; ' mon important, the molt effeenat, and the cheapen ; defence of the country. But if the Right Honour- ' able Gentleman's opinion of them was c wreft, and that the Volunteers never could be made efficient tinder the prefent fyllem, nor ever all in line, or Ana in the manna that was intended, it appeared to him that in fuch cafe they ought to be ditfolvcd. The reports of the Infpeßing Officers were, however, quite in oppofition to this opinion ; and one General Officer, now high in his gaieties Councils (Lord Moira) had reported, that the Volunteers of Scot land were fit to be brought out againn any enemy, and that he would head them with the great en confidence. He was afraid, however, that the Right Honourable Gentleman had 'taken all his ideas of the Volunteers from thole corps which he himfelf command:4 Lie Felbrig Volunteers.— That corps in itfelf united almufl every thing which the Right Honourable Gentleman had been fo accufiomed to condemn (airs ebtor, bear!) In the &II place, of all the corps that fuhlißed in the county of Norfolk, this was the only one in which the Corn wander had taken the title of Colonel, all the reit of the Volunteer Commanders in the County were con tent with being merely Captains (4 larigh). The compotition of this corps was alto tome what fingio lac. There were 73 privates, but no Staff, no Field Officer, nd Captain, no fubalterns, no drummers, and only two ferjeants, which was of eonge too lit• de to initiate the men at all in what they ought to do. The Right Honourable Gentleman teemed to wills to exemplify in his own corps all the insperfec• lions which he complained of in the Volunteer Syr tem. If at any time he law in Hyde Park, or any Where elfe, fuch an appearance of difcipline as flag. gered his opinion, he immediately com fo rted himfelf with the recolleftion of his own corps in the country, and of their indifcipline and want of fubordination. (I big primal allofion to Mr. as a Volunteer Ulcer, prorlarctiereosruleralt terror ofof laughter.) He could not. however, content that the Volunteers of England lhould be judged of by the Felbrig Corps. As to the levy as w . f., the Right Honourable Gentleman, with 411 that cOurtery and conciliating manners that he ,generally ufed towards thole who oppafed his ,meafures, laid that he did not like it. the better for coming from their (hop. Fle mull tell him, how• ewer, that, in (raking of their (hop, he did not under- I nand the wares and merchandizeit produced. Nothing was more unlike than the Len ro-1440 Ad which they propofed, and that of the Right Hon. G ntlemar. .1 They prnpofed it only on the grqund of urgent necel- i fity, nod in the Bill itfelf encourageer and invited the, netion, to be fiend from its hardthips.by offering their voluntary fervice. It was for this .altat they had granted fo many exemptions. The Right Hon. Gen tleman's plan, however, gave no encouragement to 1 voluntary fervice, btu only. permitted men to retreat into it as a fort of afylum. The great advantage of the fubfining Bill in its principle was, that it multiplied I the number of recruiting officers, by interefting n o,coo pariffies in the recruiting fervice, inked ol Soo men ; and many of tbefe pariffies would, in the ordinary courfe of recruiting, never be vifited by a recruiting party. He lhould propofe to the Right Hon. Gen tleman, inflead of totally changing the prefent tyf tern, to try an experiment in the prefent year, which it fuccefsful, would induce Parliament to agree to his plan in the courfe of next year. Suppofe he would allow the fecond battalions to remain, and to recruit at the fame time for the different dekriptione of fervice, with different bounties ; fuppofing twelve guineas for fervice limited both in time and fpace, fourteen guineas for Cervices limited in time, but not in fpace, and fixteen for general fervice, then by the numbers of men railed by the temptation of thole different bounties, it would be ken_ in what light the different defcriptions of fervice were viewed by ' thofe inclined to enlift. He thought the prelent Cyt• tern mutt be more efficient than that of the Right Honourable Gentleman in railing men, as at prefent whoever chutes to enter for limited fervice, may have in the additional force a fervice limited in (pace as well as in time. This therefore being more limit c4 than even what that Right Honourable Gentle /man prnpofed, would, on his own principles, be more attraftive. He therefore mutt oppofe the newplan, as having a great chance of not producing as many men as the prclent fyflem, but no probability of pro ducing more. Mr. Secretary FOX declared, that he tis.d no with that the repeal of this Bill lhould be Contidered in the light of a party triumph ; he willed it to be repealed I becaufe he was convinced, that it had not only been • inefficient, but that it had done cnnfiderable mifehief. It was to his mind, a powerful IlLitalOrl to the Bill, that it was confelled that it wasnot intelligible to the perfons who were to execute it fur nineteen months after it had been palled. Was he to praife the wife Legiflature that could not make their meaning derttood, or the wife Executive that could nnt com prehend that meaning. The Right Honourable Gen tleman who brought in the Bill, certainly propofed it a a meafure that was likely to produce fuch an immediate effeß : but how was that promile realifed? It was nineteen months before the Bill was at all in. telligible. But now Gentlemen fay, that people be gin to underhand it—that it would produce many wonderful clefts if it were (fill fuffered to esitt.— They therefore oppofed the repeal of a Bill, whi. h. although molt unproductive hitherto, would, accoiJ ing to their opinions, be very productive in lime. —But Gentlemen fhnuld recoiled, that every tingle principle of the Bill had been already completely abandoned in the execution of it, and therefore it would be very difficult to point out how it could be : amended. Tilt lira principle which had been held forth was limitation to a certain dittri.l. The Re f ccuiting Deicer was not allowed to rauge uver the t whole kkgrium to look for men, but the men were to he railed in their reipetlive dittrrets, by the lucid in-, i iMUSOCC And authoi iiy of die parifh officers. This) •.t i 4 : r ia.intiple had been completely , I next place, it had been flame, thin expelled from the men lo raila being j as fecond battalin regiments which had been railed • ivad that this attachment to thr 1 tance, the love of their compar of Charing their dangers and make thefe fecond battalions !general fervice. 'Phis whole fcl the principle of the bill had bee, 'ed from and dettroyed. Mani Ihowever, who fupported th e b i ll only part of it that made it in al —They profeffed to be enemies t ties, and yet, if they were to be was it to be fuppofed that a fang' got for the regular army by the extraordinary how all thole Wu now harped on the fame Itring, for.g. They all now agreed, eighteen months nobodi could yet now it was grown quite int fore would be produftive. The! ever, to abandon all the min, the Bill was brought in, and, double bounties, to take away evt make it produCtive. As to difccural or difrolving them, he did not fee between the June allowance and produce that effe& He mould tat obfervations that had been made mars, or any of the details of Honourable Gentleman had fug, tails would be belt confidered in at kali when the meafure itfelf I lady in difcuftion. But as to the he thought there was no occafion tion of that nature. The only fu propofe for the Bill was to repeal other correCtive of the milchief bit' plan, therefore, fuggefted by the Gentleman, was not a fubflitute f it pretend to be fo. The perfonal been brought again ft him, for I feted, was entitled to but little Mioiler opens a budget, he thin; the Houle, at once, is poff‘ton rangemenrs thet he intended_to pot follow that a fingle part cuffed repeatedly, free from I caber parts. For example : wh: might be formed of a particulat propofed on pig iron, it would not dircuffion of it, it neeeffarily follor 'debate about the terms on which i or any thing elle which might ha‘ budget. He thought this meafure , mined feparately, and be, without other part of the plan, in giving deted that he was giving away a fiat listed, that the prostoce of the he mull now (late that itwas even quantity. He would not allow ' the general /recruiting had been b could not be expelled to have been peace and war ; or, that during Ur Army of Referee As it could p. men as it otherwife would have. produced, however, (late, the aLual increafe ' both by the regular mode of fats I affittance of the Peri& Bill, at AS 11l the months of OCtober, Noven. bd . , 1804. 88 men only were proch and 3058 by general recruiting refponding month, of the year 9(3 railed by the At% but by genet; 2388. On calling up thefe turns he the army had incanted 152 men i riod ; but when he lhould compare following, January, February, and compare them with the correfpondit, , he found that in the former there: w. the Bill, and 3562 by general recruiting latter period, although there were rc - Bill, there were but 2517 railed ' Mg. Adding, therefore, thole I pelted there was a deficiency of which the army had gained durit This ftatement appeared to him the effeet of the Bill at the differ Ihould vote for the repeal, if it fon than becaufe it was evidet to the prefent recruiting fervk When the Parifh Bill cealcd to gi ante to the army, more might be the ordinary recruiting. Gent" done much with their favourite . done fomething; but he had kept There was no Gentleman who was not a moll defirable thing t able force. All the arguments , the plan, did not weigh a featho were called upon to exert the put be alit farther called upon, trot that the nature of the prefent time, facilitate, as far as poffible, the , the army. He (hould, whea the i endessrour to (late, as far as hit that no ptao yet mentioned was I the de(ired ace', *a that of his Gentlemen, on the other fide feet , they had better grounds of deb. were furnifhed by the matter them. They were alarmed, withi lons. Ignorance WAS certainly As to the Leypeoto Mfg% he grant be fume difficulties, out the obice ?lions might be removed io the Col . however, think that the principl , . tight. A certain degree of gener ' ea to him to be the molt lOW de In this free country we mutt ' tion of our defence, to the get . and ardour of the community. concerning the Volunteers, the Go was to h.: done Kith them? %Vt mated or 'net cafed ? flue only of render them mere uleful, by fomi future t egool.t.on. The provifir matter of future confideration. nsifisprefentorion on the other fallen from his Right Host. Fries the fobjeCt of the Volunteers. seperal tendency of what his Mil Oen WC he mat obtain, that y abandoned. In the that much was to hi- ailed fn the diftriel , , 'lions to the regular ed in the fame diaritis; t • :heir former acquain. 1. anions, and the &fire d their glory would • offer themfelves for • :hone had failed, and :en completely depart- I ty of the Gentlemen, 11, difapproved of the any degree operative. s to the double bonn- be taken aeray, how ngle recruit could be e means of it ? It was to oppofed the repeal. g, and fang the fame d, that although for d underhand the bill. ' I ntelligiole, and there. ley were content, how. inciples upon which by giving up the I t every thing that could aragh.g the volunteers, fee how the difference and the Augult could d not at all anlwer the tae on the arming in f the plan which the nggelled. Thole de- in the Committee, or If Ihould come repo- lie repeal of this Bill, ion for any confidera- fubflittue he fhould teal it. He knew no but to repeal it. The he Right Honourable e for this Bill, nor did Al argument that had .1 r hating the plan of- :le weight. When a inlet it necetfary to put in of the financial ar- prop.de ; but it did t of it could be . the confideration •of hatevcr opinion thefts lar tax, fuppofe that lot be laid, that in the t I (lowed that they mutt it the loan was railed. lave been hated in the ire might well be eta- Lout reference to any ig up this Bill, con& r a loft. He hid at the Bill was nothing; en left, it was a minus r that the average of fairly taken, for it teen the fame during the operation of tba ' ci produce at many produced; he Ihould, :reale of the Army, cruiting, and by the two different periods. vember, and Decern- yrodueed by this Bill, In the three cor- ar 1805 there were eneral requiting only es he mull allow that len in the latter pc- tare the three montla and March, sBog, and Wing months of 1806, ra were 545 railed by vcruiting ; but in the ere 661 railed by the it by general. recruit- : rums together, it ap- if 909 in the number ring the latter period. a a fair comparifon of :rent periods ; and he was for nn other tea- :nay an impediment vice of the army.— give its noxious grai- n fairly expeeted from itlemen laid they had : Bill. The child had pt away the workmen. could think that it to increafe the difpol. • she had heard againft her in his mind. We 'Attic force, and might amn the circumflances met might produce, to ,e means of recruiting the opportunity came, his capacity allowed, 'as to likely to pio,luce tie Right Hon. Ft lend. reamed always to think ebate, than thofe which er immediately before ithout knowing the rea- y oue ground of terror. • anted that there might 1 aieetions of the lemon- ' Committee. He must, iple itlelf was pert...'tly teral enrolment appear- defence nt the country. look, for a great por- meral pail tot Wm, zeal, r. As to the (roton • Gentlemen ailed ‘khat Were they to be Juni- objeet propofed mat, to me better plan for their. ions to that circa were i,kde was what prineipalt b ad ic of r and two years back, Olt With refpett to the ight Hon. Friend had t it coincided with his