Star. — London, England, 1808-03-30 00:00:00

FIFTH REPORT, SIONERS APPOINTED TO ENQUIRE AII P EXAMINE INTO THE PUBLIC EXPENDITURE. ET THE ARMY MEDICAL. DEPARTMENT. ( Continued front Friday': Paper.) The Army General Hoepital System, to which we shall now advert, either as it has been adopted in our military service abroad, or in that at home, is to be estimated in respect of its utility in the care of the sick, and of its seconomy. In both these points of view, and in both services, it will be found, we believe, that the system has been carried to too great an extent, and has been very disadvantageous. In pursuing this part of our enquiry, we have col lected information from Gentlemen of great experi ence in every branch of army medical practice, and have endeavoured, by an examination and compari son of the accounts of General and Regimental Hos pitals, and of the medical system observed in the Navy, Ordnance, and East India Company's ser vices, to judge ofthe merits ofthe army medical system. When troops are engaged on active service abroad, it must, we presume, sometimes happen that the sick and wounded cannot be accommodated with the re giments to which they belong : in such cases, hospi tals to which the sick might be generally sent, and medical aid beyond that which the Regimental Sur geons could supply, must become necessary. Accor dingly, we find that there were General Hospitals with our army in Flanders in 1793. The sick were nevertheless mostly kept with their regiments, and the Medical Staff of the army was composed of persons who had had experience in regimental practice. But in 1794, after the formation of the Army Medical Board, a new system seems to have been adopted.— Medical men, stated to be inexperienced in military habits, and the conduct of army medical practice, were placed at the head of the Staff ; and the sick were taken from the Regimental Surgeons, and were almost solely accommodated in the newly-established General Hospitals. The consequences, as we learn from Doctor Borland, then Surgeon to a regiment on that service, and the concurring testimony of 'other medical persons serving in the same army, were very unfortunate : the mortality which, whilst the sick re mained with their regiments in the former year, had been trifling, and even in those regiments which still kept their sick under the eye of their Surgeons in 1794, was comparatively small, became very great in the General Hospitals : and the expenditure also, owing to bad superintendence and the want of a due system, was very considerable. It was another con sequence of the change, that the Regimental Sur geons, whom Doctor Borland considered as at that time equal to their situation, not being permitted to take care of their own sick, became less active in the ser vice. Doctor M'Grigor, who also served as a Regi mental Surgeon on the Continent in 1794 and 1795, speaks of the greater mortality in the General than in the Regimental Hospitals. and of the great expendi ture of wine and spirits in the first, whilst the expences of the second were very moderate ; and of the dis gust which was created in the Regimental Surgeons, because their sick were taken from them and sent to the General Hospitals, where they were placed under the care of others not acquainted with army practice, but selected from civil life. The concurring testimony of these Gentlemen jus tifies us, we think, is alluding to two publications of Doctor Jackson, who was also a Regimental Surgeon serving at the same period on the Continent, and which state the same facts. • Doctor M'Grigor has noticed in the West Indies, as well as in Flanders, the superiority of the Regi mental over the General Hospitals, in respect of the treatment of the sick ; for, whilst he served as a Re gimental Surgeon in Grenada in 1796, the mortality under the Regimental treatment was trifling ;—but when, on the return of the army to Martinique, the sick were sent to the General Hospitals, the mor tality became very considerable. The same observa tion of the superior advantages of the Regimental management of the sick was made by Doctor Bor land whilst he served in the West Indies, and whilst he acted as Deputy Inspector of Hospit als with the Russian auxiliary army in Guernsey and Jersey, in 1800. The explanation which is given, to account for the superiority of the Regimental treatment of the sick is, that the Regimental Surgeons, and the officers whose duty it is constantly to inspect the hospitals, are previously acquainted with the habits and charac ters of the patients, and have a superior interest in keeping up the effective strength of their corps ' • and that the patients have a grea ter attention shewn them by those belonging to t he same regiment than they probably receive in a General Hospital, and that their cure is promoted by it : and it is also said, that diseases are often acquired in the General Hospitals, in addition to those which the sick carry in with them. It appears to be Doctor Jackson's opinion, as stated in his publications, (to which we the more willingly allude, because we have had frequent opportunities of ascertaining the correctness of the facts stated in them, and also because many of the improvements which have lately been made in the army medical system appear to us to have been suggested by him), that two-thirds of the Medical Staff abroad, during the last war were useless : 'Wherever the Hospital Staff acted," he says, " the Regimental had little to do ; and where the last did its duty, the Hospital • Staff had nothing to do." In other parts too, of the service abroad, it seems that there was an unneccessary appointment of Medical Staff Officers, even on the General Hospital System of practice.— For Mr. Young, a Gentleman of almost universal experience in the medical service of the army, states, that while he acted as Inspec tor of Hospitals to the army under General Sir Ralph Abercromby, in the Mediterranean, he has applied to the Surgeon Gene- OA for some additions of Hospital Mates ; but instead of Mates, commissioned Medical Officers were some times sent out, who being superabundant, were, on his report to the Connnander in Chief; ordered back 6o England. Nor does it seem a sufficient answer to this objection of sending officers of a description not wanted, that officers of the description_required could with difficulty be obtained. In respect of the controul and rank established in the General Hospitals abroad, Mr. Young thinks that the system was founded on good principles, but that it would be more convenient to employ Inspecttsrs and ' The distance of Dr. Jackson's residence from London did cwt conveniently admit of a personal communication with hi*. and two Assistants attached to each regiment reign service, it would considerably ease the General Hospital department; from which we infer, that a much smaller Hospital Staff Establishment than has been recommended for our expeditions abroad, would be sufficient, in his opinion, if proper care was used in appointing well-qualified persons to regimental situations. The circumstances which we are about to state, and which happened during the campaign in Egypt in the last war, will clearly shew, we think, that un der an experienced and judicious management of the medical department of an army, the General Hos pital Establishment (including the large quantities of wine, medicines, and Purveyor's stores belonging to it, which usually accompany our foreign expedi tions) is superabundant, if not altogether an unne cessary encumbrance. The army which was sent from Bombay to Egypt in 1801, under the command of Lieutenant-General Sir David Baird, although consisting, with followers, of eight thousand men, had, with the exception of Doctor M'Grigor, who acted as the head of the Medical Staff, and of .a Storekeeper who was appointed after the landing in Egypt, only the usual Regimental Medical Officers; and these carried their medicines with them. Ac cording to the practice, however, observed with fo reign expeditions going immediately from England, . a provision of a ctlplete Medical Establishment, consisting of between twenty and thirty s, with a very large supply ' of medicines ancre pers ons, ;stores, including much wine, had been made for this army, and was sent to Egypt by the way of the Cape of Good Hope. This establishment joined the Indian Army about a month after its landing on the coast of the Red Sea, and, as of course, took the charge of the sick from Doctor MeGrigor and the Regimen tal Medical Officers. But Sir David Baird having refused, on the part of the East India Company, to defray so large an expence, the whole of this esta blishment, with the exception of a few Hospital Mates, were ordered to the English Army, at that time in Egypt ; and Doctor M' rigor and the Regi mental Surgeons resumed the charge of the depart ment, and of their own sick. To this it appears they were fully competent ; for the only addition which was subsequently made to this establishment was an other Storekeeper, and the employing one of the As sistant Surgeons as the responsible person to whom money was to be issued for the contingencies of the department. The same simplicity, and the same laudable economy are observed in what respects the medical disbursements of this army. The accounts, after being examined by Doctor M‘Grigor, received his signature of approbation • and, when countersigned with the approbation of the Commander in Chief, were submitted to the audit of two persons attached to that army, for the special purpose of examining all the accounts belonging to it, and their decision was final. The success of this system of management certainly justifies Doctor M4Grigor in his opinion, that, with the addition of a few Staff Surgeons and Hospital Mates, as a provision for an extraordinary number of wounded men, the same system might be beneficially adopted on all our foreign expeditions.— And this opinion is confirmed by what we learn from Doctor Yates, of the practice adopted in the India Company's army : for even. when in the field, the only additio nto the Regimental Establishment is, one Staff Surgeon to superintend the whole Medical Department, and a Medical Gentleman to take care of the hospital stores ; with, occasionally, three or four Assistant Surgeons, who are at the disposal of the Chief of the Staff. If, from what has been stated, the propriety of the General Hospital System, as it has been adopted on, our foreign expeditions since the establishment of the Army Medical Board, shall be deemed questionable, the extensive adoption of the same system at home will be found probably to be open to much stronger objections. On active service, a distinct Medical Establishment, which might relieve, in a great de gree, the Regimental Surgeons from all duties except in the field, and whose expenditure was under a sepa rate controul, appears to carry a great convenience with it ; but the reasons which might be urged in favour of such a measure on service, do not apply to our forces at home. Hospitals, to which the sick of regiments absent on service may be generally sent, must be undoubtedly useful ; but our objection is to the number which have been established, and to the magnitude of the establishments attached to them; and to the principle on which they have been conducted. The return in the Appendix shews, that five Gene nefal Hospitals were established in 1793 • and that. three were added in 1799, during the ex pedition to Holland ; but that these last were discontinued in the next year. Four others are stated to have been established in 1803, by a War Office Order. The establishments of these last, it appears, were continued with the exception of some of the servants, for two or three years, although the hospitals werenever in use.. At present, all the General Hospitals are disconti nued, with the exception of the York Hospital at Chelsea, and the depot hospital in the Isle of Wight. In the same return. it will be seen, that the estabrisfi ments in all of them were nearly the same in descrip tion, although varying in the expence, on account of the difference in the rank of the medical persons em ployed, and the consequent different rates oftheir pay. It Doctor Borland's opinion, that the General Hosplals in England appeared to have more medical • officers and servants attached to them than were ne cessary. This also seems to be Colonel Burnet's opi. nion, if we may judge from an estimate of the anneal expence of an establidtment requisite for. a General Military Hospital, which he hax communicated to us. It will be proper tp (*serve in ihis place t that, with respect to three of those Hospitals establiihed in 1803, which are stated in the return not to have been in, use, it appears that his Royal Highness the com mander in Chief had direeitt on the - 30th of Septem-' ber in that year, that his order for providing them should be revoked ; bnt, Mr. Keate having•itated' that in easisequence of &ruler orders, he had appoin ted a rear Staff for each of the p4i..ate, and ordered them, together with the requisite Yomplemewt of su• perior servants, to their re-pective destinations, his Highness's order to abolish these establishments, as Mr. Keate's letter to his Royal Highness contains; Of course, the reasons which operated on his mind. But we cannot omit to observe, that the continuance of these expensive establishments seems to have been unknown at the Wir GlEce ; for we Sad, that on the 12th NOvember, 1804, Mr. Keate was questioned re lative to the appointment of principal medical offi cers to two of the places, " when it appears thattliere were no General Hospitals at the posts at which they were respectively stationed." Mr. Ream's answer, on the 15th January, Ism, being made known to his Royal Highness, he was pleased, on the 21st of the same month, to recommend discontinuance of those. Hospitals. fro be coniansed.) • Surgeons than Phy'si* osfd • ns, because the former could Highnels was pleased to o rder, - thit although t occasionally act eitho medically or surgically. • • e eral Hospitals were not actually occupied; in respect of the check on the expenditure of inedi , the; the Staff that hid been appointed for diem cines, and hospital stores on expeditions abroad, igiig under the existiag circumstances, be kept in Mr. Young's opinion that the mode adopted wad.' -• • ss at those places: be sufficient under an attentive euperintendance, * We have not enquired what were the existing cir- prevent waste and peculation. Mr. Young, however, climstances which could justify the fixing of complete admits that if there were one well-qualified Surgeon establishments for General Hospitals at places where and two Assistants attached to each regiment on fo- there were no patients, or into the motives which in- _ _ • ft_ • D -1 PAALLIMBNT'ART PROCZIPINGS. . - HOUSE OF LORDS, MARCH I& The House was some time empieyod in a Coamalbles d Psi vikges on the Roxburgh Peerage; after which the Committee adjourned, fin ifie. 08=88 IN COUNCIL. The order of the day was then moved, and Lord HOLLAND rose to make his promised mo tion respecting the policy of the Orders in Council. The object he had in view, in bringing forward his present motion, was to take an opportunity of recor ding the opinions of those with whom he acted, on thisimportant subject; and to entreat that House to stretch out a saving hand, to rescue the country from the sea of troubles which these measures must inevi tably bring upon it—unless the salutary and season able interference of Parliament was interposed to ar rest it. His Lordship adverted to the loss of negroes by famine on a former occasion, when the inter course with America was suspended, and which amounted to 15,000 in the single island of Jamaica. He asked, were Noble Lords aware of the proportion of sustenance drawn by our West India settlements from the United States of America ? and adverted to certain calculations to shew, that of the whole quantity imported, the United S tates furnished— Of Corn 65 per cent. or nearly 9-3ds. Bread, Flour, and Meal, 91 ditto or snore than 9.loths. Rice --- 98 ditto or needy all. Fish 50 ditto or oso.half. Ewe Butter 14 ditto or 1-7th. Cows and Oxen 79 ditto or 4-Sibs. Sheep and Hogs 90 ditto or 9-10chs. And of Lumber, which his Lordship observed was next in importance to Provisions-- Of one Article, 97 per cent. Another 99 ditto; and, A third 96 ditto. The Noble Lord afterwards went into an histori cal retrospect of the commercial intercourse. between this country and the United States, both immediately before, and subsequent to the acknowledged indepen , dence of that great country, and went over all the arguments before adduced, in respect to the conse quences that may result from a war between Great Britain and the United States. Under these circum stances, he said, he would endeavour to record the opinions of his Noble Friends on this momentous ques tion, and with that intention he should ihow submit certain resolutions to the House. The Noble Lord concluded with moving five resolutions, in which he embodied his different arguments against the Orders in Council. Lord WESTMORLAND contended, that Fhat ever mischief might arise from the measures so much inveighed against by the Noble Lord, were wholly imputable to the late Administration, and that the Orders in Council of the 7th January were the fatal source of all the evils that have followed. Lords Auckland, Darnley, and Lauderdale sup ported the resolutions ofLord Holland, and endeavour ed to shew, that the measures of the late Adminis tration, whether right or wrong, were no excuse for the bad measures of his Majesty's present Ministers. Lord MULGRAVE opposeorthe resolution, and vindicated the Orders in Council. Lord GRENVILLE, in a speech of considerable length, argued in support of the resolution. Lord HAWKESBURY answered the Noble Ba ron, and in the course of his speech observed, that the knowledge of the British Orders in Council had not in any degree interrupted the Negociation in Ame rica, nor had it produced any unfavourable impression in that country ; and although Mr. Rose was only instructed to treat upon the affair of the Chesapeake, he took out dispatches to Mr. Erskine, embracing other objects, and which it was expected would pro duce a speedy accommodation. After a short reply from Lord Holland, the -- divided : Contents. 25 Non-contents. 55 Majority against the Resolution-28 Adjourned at past One o'clock this morning. HOUSE OF COMMONS. The two following Committees were balloted for to try the 'merits ache Petitions against the Elections and Returns for the County of Sussex, and the Borough of Christ Church : UNMET ELEOTION COMMITTEE. - R. H. Bradshaw, Esq. P. Gel', Esq. Lord Viscount Pollington 1. Staniforth, Esq. W. Loftin, Esq. I. Hodson, Esq. Lord Viscount librington B. Long, Esq. R. T. Stewart, Esq. C. Lesson, Esq.. H. Bankts, Esq. Hon. W. Howard R. Thornton, Esq. _ NOMINEES. The Right Hon. G. Tierney and James Graham, Pm, CHRIST CHURCH ELECTION COMMITTEE. .J. Dawkins, Esq. Ch. Jenkinson, Esq. lien. R. Curzon I. Dupre, Esq. H. Thornton, Esq. • T. Whitmore, Esq. J. Fane, Esq. J. Baker, Esq. .Lp. Pocock, Eng. 7. Forrester, Esq. T.,m - d Chas. Somerset Manners 1. F. Turner, Esq. NOMINEES. The Hon. J. Abereremby and R. Permian, Esq. COMMITTEE OP FINANCE. Mr. RIDDULIPH gave notice, that te-morruer he wlll mews that thename otthe Hon. J. W. Ward shall be sehatknesd ea the * Odes Otenseitest= p ee, In the Alone/ die OW. Wluir. e el* opiCelr= sa le the Comisimil mai l i r li pA mot M cesgeed ara 200101,- 0 111111 The LORD ADVOCATE et ertat plow% that tier* be laid before the Hews a sort et t h e of dtt "COI mistimes* of Publis Records in as far as respects Scotlead wi tk a view to founding a Bill upon this document, the object o_• should be the better regulating of the mode of keeping k mris in that part of the kingdom.—Ordered. NOTICES. • Sir THOMAS TURTON, on the suggestion of Mr R D u . . . • d u , his motion relative to the Carnatic, till m s rho ACM— • u y ITZWART gave notice, that be will move for ti e postponement of the Donegal Election Committee. Mr. WHITBREAD put of his motion for Rosana Pap from Friday tilt Monday stem ers On tha motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQ time Committee on the Petitions against the Orders in Co s ' was deferred from this day till Friday next Mr. HUSKISSON produced an Account of all the S t u ns sf ihfiney drawn by virtue of Treasury Viatrants out of the ba n d s of the Surveyor General of the Woods and Foram, Maki was ordered to lie upon the table. The Indictment Bill and the Orders in Council laden:why hu were severally committed, and the Reports ordered to be receiv e d tommerenr. The Irish Warehousing Bill was read a second time.' DAMN FLZEr. Lord FOLKESTONE rose to submit a motion for the consideration of the House, respecting the pro. ptiety of restoring the Danish fleet, at a futur e pe. nod, in the same state as when taken. The Nobl e Lord condemned the principle on which Govemnsent had aced in seizing the fleet. He was induced to do this, from the sort of defence which they had set up. Though at first he had been incli ne d to approve it, he then felt that a ground of strong emergen c y must be made out to justify the seizure. When the Expe. dition first sailed, Ministers had declared their tention of taking possession of the fleet, in ord er to keep it for Denmark until the restoration of pe nce; and then they pledged themselves to return it back into the possession of that Power. Their subsequent conduct, however, had since proved that the declare. tion was a mere pretext to k the fleet, and t o d e . lude Denmark. There could eep be no real doubt exist. ing of the friendly disposition of Denmark to thi s Country, though there was certainly great doubt as to her ability to resist the power of France. Th e Noble Lord, after a few more observations, mo ve d, n That an humble Address be presented to his Ma. jesty, that he might still retain in his mind the first tror rt sal made on the part of this Govern ment to t h e Court of Denmark, - respecting the fleet of that Power; that that proposal has bbeeeenn violated from no fault on their part, but in consequence of violent aggressions acted on the part of Great Britain." ,I'he Noble Lord stated, that after this Address should be car ried, he had to move a Resolution for the restoration of the fleet in the same state as when. taken posse ss i on of, at the ratification of a Definitive Treaty of Peace. Mr. BRAND seconded the Motion. He lamented that the subject, which was one of importance as con. nected with the honour and character of the country, had not induced a fuller attendance of Members.-- . He too had entertained similar opinions with his Noble Friend, as to the propriety of the seizure, coa ceiving that Ministers had good grounds for justifies don. They had assumed those grounds, but when called upon to produce them, they had failed, and therefore stood, both in the eyes of the world and the People of England, as having acted improperly. The Hon. Gentleman was ready to assume, for the sake of argument, that one Nation had the right to dis possess the other of any of its propel ty. He would take a broader ground, and say that it had the undoubted right to attack and despoil a Neutral. Suppose the - Emperor of France were to attack Holstein, be would hR like manner be entitled to any part of that territory he could get. He was ready to admit that this country bed the right of exacting from Denmark any part of her property or her possessions essential to the contest ilk which we were engaged. This was clear, on the ground of self-preservation—but in case another treaty . of Westphalia was made, and Bonaparte so modified his demands as to preclude the necessity of keeping the fleet, we were bound in honour to restore it. Mr. SAMUEL THORNTON was inclined to support the motion of the Noble Lord, but was of opinion the authority to restore the fleet in the event of peace should be vested in Ministers. Sir THOMAS TURTON justified the conduct of Ministers, on the ground that though no actual ap pearance of hostility was manifested, yet that a co vered one was evident from all the information which they had obtained ; which information, if published, might lead to the most dange,ous consequences. Mr. DAVIES GIDDY supported - the Address, not that he thought the restoration of the ships due w Denmark as a matter of right ; but that he thought it an act of generosity becoming and incum4eet on the character of the British nation. Mr. WILBERFORCI conceived that the ground of necessity which had been established, was a suffi x cient justification for the steps taken in getting pot-. session of the fleet. Ministers had, in his opinion, acted properly in obtaining an instrument (which might have been used by the enemy against this country) by less violent means.than was usually re., sorted to. Sir T. TURTON explained. Mr. HAWKINS BROWNE commended our moderation in having paid for every thing we got from the Danes, and was against returning the ships at present. He considered the fleet as much a lawful prize as if we had met it at sea in a state of 2, 1 14 hostility. Mr. HANBURY TRACEY, adverting to thealii servations of some of the former Speakers, that it . ought to be left to Government to return the ships it' the conclusion of the War, hoped that the .. present Ministers would not then be in pl ace . , . Mr. BABINeTON supported the motion. *. *Mr. SIMEON was against returning the ships. He commented on the hostile mind of the- Dane! l .; which he said w as ev i nce d i n t h e i r k ee pi ng oils pp-, soners, although we had released theirs. - • 2 Mr. BATHURST considered this as very different ••• -. from the discussions which had taken place before.-- .. ' the question was then respecting the sh i p He t •,, now respecting the re stor a t i on of the ships.. He ‘, thought the character and dignity of the country tt! quired that they should be restored. We should net,','/ by imitating the example of others, abatition uil gm: .*- . 4; • 1 " sal and political rules. _ -,:5.11,i5... eidi:' , Mr. SIMEON ex pl a i ne d. -r:-7 !t , aP. A'• - 4 , , Mr. STEPHENS was against the Motion:' • - ', ' House had *sadly 48644 tits,. question - in Al fa il , thi rime,. aid Wheeled ncrir ;hexed tit of r a*lnt io Ai _to render it papa. to litnan thesat--It had bees raid, that the ha*less 4141111 k t ,e V; 1 the mercy of France, gave ... • The Dutch, during our N u4ll l Silt i d e o"wr 'PI I F ! twißll4 ;• .. 4 f~ r ..- - -~- ~.0 I 6 4