Star. — London, England, 1826-12-07 00:00:00

k A , ' k _ he had returned fully tint . tellef that the lila* serious duty of Parliament was that Zrconsidering wbetheb it were not yet too4ate to save the integrity of the empire. He would say fur himself, that nothing which bad passed in Ireland had shaken his opinion as to the jus tice and safety of concedinr to the Catholics their indisputable rights; on the contrary; he was more firm than ever in the belief that concession could not longer be safely postpongd. Mr. Secretary PEEL, who had entered doting the discussion, said, that whenevei.the subjects to which the Hon. and Learned Gentlemon alluded, should come properly under the discussion of the House, he should be perfectly prepared to meet hi m ; but he could not think that this was the time for entering into such questions, and he should therefore cautiously avoid following the example which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had set. He wished sincerely that all.parties on both sides would follow the precepts recommended by the Hon. Member for Limerick, and he did wish that the party with whom the Hon. Member's opinions might be sup posed tp influence, would obey that wise recommenda tion—giear). He should confine himself to the ques tion of whether or no his. Hon. Friend ought to abstain from the printing of the Petition. The advice he should give would be given upon principle; not considering either side of the question to which the Petition referred, but founJed upon his unbiassed judgment. He found that the Petition Dime from a single individual, that it contained a very long statemeot of facts and opinions, presented Co the House in the form of a Petition. Now, that an'lndividual had a perfect right to present his sentiments to the House, he had no doubt: but the House had also a perfect right to give publicity to those sentiments, or not, as it should think fit. He found that by the terms of the Petition, many persons were alluded ' , to as being :mot ious for their avarice and cupidity.—] He did not think it right and fair that any person should be enab'ed to circulate personal matter like this, and under the pretence of a. Petition to Parliament, asperse the characters of private individuals. He should there fore advise his Hon. Friend to abstain from pressing his motion; because he did hold that it was an abuse of the right of petition for an individual to take that means of indulging in abuse and calumnies of a personal chiracter. This was a growing evil, and extended even to the publication of treatises in the shape of Petitions to Parliament, by which the parties saved themselves the expense of printing. He hoped his Hon. Friend would not press the printing of the Petition ; if he did, he should vote against it. Mr. MOORE said, that alter what had fallen from both sides of the House, he should be insensible to the best feelings, if he did not yield to what had been sup portrd ; and, certainly had his attention been sufficiently directed to the objectionable wording of one clause of the Petition adverted to by his Right Hon. Friend, he would not have insisted on its being printed. At the same time, it was due to himself to say, that he was called upon by one of his constituents to present and move to have it printed, and he felt himself bound to comply, the more particularly so on reading the .Peti tion, he found that the facts it contained were generally well founded, and the observations it made were' generally good. He would assure the House, if he had thought that the Petition of any individual could have the effect of unduly prejudicing the mind of any Mem ber of the House on the great question that would here after be brought before them, be would be the last man that would be instrumental in creating such prejudice, as no mu was sabre alive than be was to the necessity of giving that gumless the Moat calm and impartial deliberation. The Hem. Member ameleded by stating his intention of concurring in the worn suggested by the Right Hem Secretary. and would ask permisdat to withdraw his motion. The motion for printing the Petition was accordingly vritbdrawu. Mr. J. GRA rrAN gave notice, that in the course of the Sessions he should submit a motion to the House respecting the Poor of Ireland. He also presented a Petition from the Catholic Inhabitants of a parish in the county of Mayo, praying to be relieved from their disabilidese.—Ordered to Instead of be plated: - Mr. MONTEITH presented various Petitions -from Paisley, and other places in Dumbartonshire, praying that the House would enable the parties to emigrate to the Colony of Upper Canada.— The Hon. Member stated, that as the Petition prayed for pecuniary • assistance from the House, it could not be received without the recommendation or consent of the Government. He therefore hoped that at the object of the Petitioners would be one of great public advantage to the Colony, it would not be objected to. Mr. Secretary PEEL said, that he should make no objfaction. Ordered to be printed. Mr. J. WILLIAMS begged to ask the Right Hon. Secretary of &ate for the Home Department, whether any measure Was likely to be introduced to the House in consequence of the Chan cery Report? Mr. Secretary PEEL had no difficulty in stating that daring the Session, the sense of Parliament would be taken upon a proposition founded upon the Chancery Report. Mr. HUME presented a Petition from certain Seamen of South Shields, praying for an alteration of the Corn Laws.—Ordered to be printed. EXPORTATION 01 MACHINERY. Mr. HUME presented a Petition from a large body of machine makers, praying for an alteration of the laws prohibiting the exportation of machinery. The Hon. Member said, that the Petition involved a prin. ciple of very great importance to this country. He recollected the Hun. Gentleman at the head of the Board of Trade having said, that he hoped the day might soon arrive when the word prohibition might be expunged from our commercial system. He (Mr. Hume) per fectly agreed with the Hon. Gent. in the sentiment, and he appealed to him whether it was right to continue a system of prohibitions with respect to machinery, when he was endeavouring to abolish that system with regard to every other article of industry? In the Act of sth George IV. cap. 107, he was sorry to see a list of a great number of ankles, the exportation of which was pro hibited. This, he thought, was directly the reverse of the principles which the Right Hon. Gentleman had professed to adopt. The object of the petitioners in presenting the present Petition to the House was, to ob tain a repeal of the law which prohibited them from exporting the produce of their ingenuity and labour to the markets that would afford them the best remunera tion or reward. T.lis object, at all times just, was ren dered infinitely mole necessary, now that the markets at home did not afford any demand for their industry.... The petitionei s declared themselves to be totally out of work, and in a state of abtolute starvation ; the Ilnitish , manufactures affording them no employment, and the foreign markets being shut against them by the prohi bitory system persevered in by Ministers. Every man was now allowed to export the produce of his industry to where he could find a purchaser, except the unfortu nate maker of machines. The consequence of this was, that the machinists of England were in a state of desti tution, while their sufferings were increased by a know ledge that it was in the power of Ministers, by opening their trade, to relieve their distresses. Those who op posed the exportation of machinery were obly like those who had opposed the opening of every other trade, in order to augment their own individoal gains, and to secure to themselves a monopoly. He might illustrate the truth of this by referring to many trades, but tarticularly to the silk trade. The persons engaged in that trade had done everything in their power to persuade the country and the Government, that removing the prohibitory laws would ruin the whole silk trade of England. Ministers, however , bad persevered in ti,.. enlightened views, with respect to the importation of foreign silk ;'and so far from the English silk manufac. torers having been ruined, they were even benefitted by the new system. The opposition to the exportation of machinery arose fiom the same narrow views and personal motives, and he did net see why the Go.? vernment should pot extend their principles to that , branch of our industry. The House had been so strongly impressed with the impolicy and injustice of preventing ihiiish artizans taking their capital and in genuity out of the country, that they had come to a unanimous resolution of allowing artisans to export themselves wherever they pleased. The rational conse quence of this measure ought to be, that artizans should be allowed to export machinery as well as themselves. If the exportation of machinery were to be prohibited, artizans would export themselves to an extent to prove highly injurious to the countey. The effect of the law, as it now stood, was to encourage the emigration of our most useful machinists. No apprehension could be entertained of foreigners being enabled to rival us in manufactures by obtaining our machinery, for it was in large works that required the use of machinery, in which our supplies of coal, iron, our canals and large capital, gave us the advantage over foreign manufac tater:. In works that required little combinations of capital, and only the application of small machines, foreigners might rival us. Labour in France, consider ing the relative *slue of money, was almost as dear as in England. The law, as it now stood, was so contrary to good policy, that it could not be carried into effect ; rind it accordingly operated solely as a boutor upon the snuggling of machinery out of the kingdom. The law is its details was most absurd. Thus, be found by the list, that whilst the exportation of even a screw was prohibited, lathes, by which thousands of screws could ,be made, might be legally exported. What rendered the absurdity greater was, that the potter's lathe was the only lathe that could not be exported; when it was known that the French and Dresden porcelain manufacturers so far excelled ours, that there was no foreign demand for our potter's lathes at an. On the Question that the Petition be brought up. Mr. HUSKISSON appealed to the Hon. Member whether a question of such vast importance to the country could with propriety be discussed, at a period when thousands of manufacturers were either out of employ. or but partially employed. He assured the Hon. Member that if a Bill was to be introduced, which had for its object the abolition of every restriction upon the exportation of machinery, it would be productive of the most serious alarm in the manufacturing districts, and would give rise to the presentation of numerous Petitions frorhall parts of the country to that House: he trusted, therefore, that the Hon. Member would confine himself to the presentation of the Petition, and would not follow it up with any specific motion. It had been generally agreed that some alteration in the law respecting , the exportation of machinery should take place;, and the question having been agitated some time ars, a regulation was made, giving •to the Board of Trade a discretion as to the kinds of machinery which Might and might not be exported.• This discretion vested in the Board of Trade was oft most disagreeable and unpleasant nature. It was, moreover, liable to this objection, that in whatever way the Board of Trade decided, the party refused the right of exportation con ceived himself injured and wrongly dealt by. Upon this ground alone he felt the necessity of establishing , some fixed and settled principle of exportation andpro hibition of all articles of machinery. lie tract tumselfen deavoured to lay down a rule by which the discretion ' vested in the Board of Trade should be regulited ; and that principle was, that where machinery was of great bulk, and contained a great quantity of the raw material, no objection should be made to exportation, as he con sidered that no injury could be done to the country by it. But where machinery was of modern construction, and depended mainly upon the ingenuity and excel lence of the mechanism, and where the raw material used was trifling, then the exportation of such machi nery was prohibited. It wash notorious fact, that many manufacturing establishments were at this moment standing still under the expectation of obtaining machi nery from this country. Under such circunutances then, and particularly in the present state of the manu facturing interests, he implored the Hon. Member not to agitate the question of the Exportation of Machinery at this period—(Hear, hear). He had no objection to the Petition being brought sip and read, and, if necessary, printed ; but he did not wish it to go forth to the public, that the whole law. with respect to the Exportation of Machinery might be safely re pealed.--(Hear). Mr. LITTLETON must also deprecate the evils of Imparts statements in relation to the exportation of machinery. The fears of rash legislation on this subject were productive of much anxiety among the manufac turers in this country. He wished a skeleton Bill was proposed, to the effect of pointing out those articles it would be expedient to admit to exportation, and those it would be wise to prohibit. He was the more anxious for this, as it was impossible to prevent some machinery plug oat of the country under the existing laws. Colonel TORRENS thought machinery might be freely exported to foreign , countries, as England posH sessed the means of preventing a foreign rifalship, were it only by fixing an export duty of 50 per cent. on her coals, without which the best machinery could not boy advantageously worked: He was friendly to free trade is the abstract; but considered that great discretion should be ab solved in its introdocdon to a country so peculiarly cl,rptastanced as England—(Hear, heat!) Sir H. PARNELL mentioned, that the more fo reigners used machinery in their productions they would become the richer—in other words, they would become the most advantageous consumers of British wares, in proportion as Great Britain exported to them her ma dames. It was most unjust to keep down the class of machine *sanufacturers, in order to favour the interests of the cotton or any other class of manufacturers. _ Mr. BARING thought the subject should be reserved for discussion to a more fitting period ; it was now pre mature, and We must therefore deprecate the repetition of arguments on the subject by the Hon. Member for Montrose (Mr. Hume). He entirely agreed in his views' on the subject, with those advanced by the Hon. Mem ber for Ipswich (Colonel Torrens), who applied sound principles of political economy to the elucidation of practical subjects. He had doubts as t 9 the policy of the free exportation of British coal, but his doubts were certainly more practical than theoretical; but he had his doubts on that point, as on many popular doctrines of political economy. He, however, still thought there might be a safe exportation of most of [ the articles of machinery in use in this country. Mr. WARBURTON said, that however true it was that men of honour would not violate the existing law against the exportation of machinery, it was still, with all the facilities of communication between this and fo reign countries, impossible to prevent the exportation of large quantities of the most important articles of ma chinery. It was therefore necessary to remodify, if not altogether to repeal, the present imperfect and impolitic ,l aw . It was folly to prohibit the exportation of ma-, ! COLONIAL APPNALS. Mr. HUME moved for a Return of all the Appeals which had been received and entered by his Majesty's Privy Council, from the year 1814, distinguishing those which had been heard and those which bad been de; cided. The Hon. Member passed severe strictures on the Court of Appeal, which be described u having neitka Judge, Officers, regulations, nor appointed periods for sitting. Mr. Secretary PEEL had no objection whatever to , the information wished for being afforded ; all that he wanted was, that the Returns laid before the House should give as ample information on the subject as pot. 1 sible. He would, therefore, suggest, that not only should a Return be made of the Appeals noticed by the Hon. Member, but also of aU Appeals received tree the Ides if Guernsey and Jersey, and also of these respecting claims. Frame, distinguished, of course, in the same way as had been proposed the others should be by the Hon. Member for Aberdeen. Mr. HUMS adoptcd the suggestion, and the Astern* wen ordereod. Mr. HUME, after remarking on the great hardship and cruelty of the law of arrest, as it affected *persons indebted fortrilling same, moved for a Return of the Number Of Persons, and their Names. confined for debt In the different palms iu the United Kingdom of Gaut Britain and Ireland, stating the particular periods for which they had been confined, and the npmber confined for debts under 1004—Ordered. urn ramie Sir A. GRANT movedthitanAddress be presented to his Majesty, reptesting a copy of all correspondence which had taken place *firma his Majesty's Government and Foreign Powers; respecting the Slav! Trade, since the cemmencement of 1826; of all other correspondence which had been received by any bis Majesty's Government on the same subject, during the period.—Ageed to. asuairret WAR. Mr. HUME gave Notice that he would tomorrow, should the Right Hon. Secretary for Foreign Affairs be in his place, move for the Papers respecting the Ashantee War. COIMITTICZ 07 scpn.Y. ' The Howe having resolved itself into a Committee of Supply, ' the Exchequer Bills Bill was committed, and the Report was ordered to be received to-morrow. The blank in the Transfer In Aids BM was filled up—with ir e millions—and the Report ordered t• be received to-morrow. ONE POUND MOTU. Sir A. GRANT laid before the House the papers which had been ordered respecting one pound notes.—Ordered to He on the table. The Orders of the Day being dispowd of, the House adioururd at Right o'Clock until to-morrow Om Dar). THE EVENING STAR. LONDON. THURSDAY, DECEMBER 7,1826. STOCK EXCHANGIC, TWELVE O'CLOCK. In consequence of the decision of the King of Seam, in regail to the affairi of Portugal, and every prospect that peace will t 4 maintained in Europe, the Coned market has Improved this morn. ing. frousols, which left of yesterday at 84i burrs for the Ac= count, opened at the same price; soon after they were done at $4l i for the Account, with a steady market, and a good deal of business doing, the Hebrews hating taken the lead, and purchased largely. Reduced may be quoted at 831 j. The Foreign market has also improved this morning, and the bubble in Shares is again going forward with fresh vigour —all the Mining Sharetin iarticular, except the Brazilian, w?i:h are heavy. Current prices : Old Spanish 12 131, Mexicans 711, Colombian 39 Chilian 38 39, Danish ft /, Peruvian 33 34, Russian 8611 87, Greek 19 1, Brazilian 9 11 prem. CITY, TWO O'CLOCK. In retard to political information we have not any up to tikg present time, there being but few arrivals.—The Cansol market continues firm, although the fluctuation this morning his not been more thin t per Cent. In the earlier part of the day they were done at 841 for the Account, since which they went up to NJ I , and receded again to $4l I, at which price they now remain steady, with little doing. Reduced 8.14 to 4. The Foreign Market aho appears steady and improving. The Public again have caught the mania to lose their property in Mist ing Speculations : a great deal is doing in the above shares. PRICE OF STOCKS AT TWO O'CLOCK. Rink Stock 2033 3 per Cent. Red. 833/ y j $ per Ceta. Cons. Shut. 31 pet Cent. 89% % 3/ per Cent. Red. 89 3 / 9 4 per Cent. New Shut. 4 per Cent. 1826, 97% India Bonds 38 37 £l,OOO Exclieq. Bills 19 18 £5OO ditto 21 Cons. for Acct. 84% Vs FOREIGN FUNDS, TWO O'CLOCK. Colombian Bonds, 6 p Ct. 56 blez.Bonds,s per Ct. 591 Do. Bonds, 1824,391 / 40 Do. Aect. Do.Acct.36i, 91 401 Do. Bds 1925,6 p. Cr. 711 Greek Bonds, 5 p Ct. 15 I Do. Acct. 701 1 I Do. 80nd5,192.5,5 p C. Span. Bonds 5 p Ct. 121 4 13 Ace.lll Ditto Acct. 13/ BRITISH AND FOREIGN SHARES, TWO O'CLOCK. SHAM SAID. Anglo Mexican 100 75 474 50 521 Colombian 100 15 12)131 14 Potosi La Paz and Peru. Ass. 50 5 £3 9s. £4, .23*. £3l4s. Royal Irish 25 1 9.16 sel 4s. £1 6s. £1 34. Real del Monte 400 400 540 550 Tlalpuxahua 400 160 205 210 United Mexican 40 25 191 19 British Cu 30 22 9 General Steam Navigation 100 13 6• FRENCH FUNDS. • Five per Cents. 091. 65e. Three per Cents. • • • 71 f. 50e. Ilicutc, d. Naph. A • 77f. 10C• Rentes d'Espagne • . loiL lisytian Loan . . 710 f. • =CHANG E.S. HAMEMOII, Nov. 26.—0 n London, 36. 7k. 2M. 36. 41t. Larva, Nov. 24.—0 n London, 3 M. 6. 17. Brno, Nov. 25.—0 n London, 3 M. 6. 14. Private letters from Lisbon state, that the prevailing opinion there was, that Marshal BERESPORD would be appointed to the supreme command of the Portuguese army: be has given orders for a large establishment. . Accounts from Madrid state, that a Company of Bankers, consisting of French, German, and English, were for a long time negociating with the Spanish Go. Imminent, for the monopoly of tobacco. The negocia. tion was nearly concluded, but they could not agree amongst themselves, in regard to the price, when it was broke off. A Flanders Mail has brought us Brussels Papers to the 2d inst. The following are extracts : BRUSSELS, Novutwa 29. We have already mentioned that a Committee fbr the aid of the Greeks has been formed at Dresden; the ob ject of which is to send for Greek orphans, and to en trust them to the care of some noble philanthropists of Dresden and other cities in Germany. Twenty of these unfortunate orphans are on the way, who have been sent by the Committee at Marseilles, and have been adopted beforehand for the most part by worthy Cler gymen. Twenty more are applied for. A notice of 20th September, states, that those persons who shall receive and educate these children will not have to be at any expense for them. A Committee has also been formed at Leipsig, which takes upon itself to afford to young Greek orphans means to study at the University of Leipsig. The finances of this Committee are in a very flourishing state. Ibis Extellency Count de Liedekerke, Minister of the Netherlands to the Swiss Confederation, set out yester day for Switserland. The Magistrates of this city have giien notice, by or der of tbeGovern meat of the province, and in conformity with his Majesty's Rescript of 21st October last, that the Royal Decrees of 14th June, and 14th Augusts 1825, relative to the Philosophical College, will be irre vocably enforced; and that young men who shall have studied out of the kingdom will not be appointed by /is Majesty to any offices, or admitted to the exercise of any ecclesiastical functions. DECOMICA I.—By an official Report, of the 27th of November, it appears that the disorder in the psovince of Overyssel continues as before, the number of deaths is greater than the week before: that of the sick had ie general neither increased nor diminished. At Blockz}l, however, there were more sick persons in a dangerous state than before. The Rector Magnificos, of the University of Groan)* gen, has just resolved, that considering the great ding' *talon in the number of sick, there seems to . be no longer moment (chines, when Encyclopedias, containing ,aaate plates' of these machines, were freely eiported: He wished that the alteration in Vie law coold be effected without consuitiug manufacturers, by the President of the Board of Trade alone; and - for this reason. every manufacturer circuited wotilid admit the policy of a repeal of the law, as a general proprietor, fat would earnestly contend that his own particular merchandise con stituted the exception that required a prohibiting protection. Mr. Secretary PEEL wished the'Hon. Member (Mr. Hume) would have postponed `the discussion of this important question—as partial statements were produc tive of much mischief. He (Mr. Peel) was not hostile to the main principle of the Hon. Member's proposition; ''but considered it to be one of so complicated a nature, as to require the greatest caution in bringing it forward for adoption. For theory and practice did not at all times chime, as the Mon. Member may recollect in the case of the Combination Laws. The Honourable Mem ber, by plausible arguments of the justice of placing the workman on equal terms with his employer, induced bim . (Mr. Secretary Peel) and the House, to grant him a Committee on those Combination Laws. The result of which was a change—theoretically sound f—effected in those Laws. What as the consequence? In less than a year these changes, so accordant with perfect theory, were creative of so much mischief throughout the country, that the House were compelled to retrace their steps, and re-enact those unsound Laws (Hear). As to the observation of the Hon. Member EWarburton) about the machinery plates contained in the ncyclopstdia, jie thought it of little weight, because many improvements in machinery have been made since the last Soppkwent was published, and would be made before the next Nillon would be printed trithree or four years hence. After a few remarks from Mr. Baum and Mr. Hugs, the Pe tition was bail upon the table. Mr. RO RTB moved, that a new writ be issued for the Borough of Wallingford, in the room of Colonel Robarts, who had accepted the Chiltern Hundreds. Mr. HUSKISSON presented a Petition from the Inhabitants of Old and New Lanark, praying for an alteration in the Corn Laws. Mr. BARING moved for Retuins of the average prices of grain imported and exported to and from the Island of Guernsey, during the years 1821, and 1826. Ordered. The Hon. Gentleman took this opportunity of inquiiing of a Right Hon. Gentleman opposite at what peri‘d, after the adjournment, it was intended the House should reassemble ? Mr. Secr y PEEL mentioned the beginning of February. I i. Mt. HA EY gave notice that he should, after the holidays, move for lea to bring.in a Bill for the better regulation of Joint Stock Companies. MN. SPENCE rose to submit his promised motion, relative to the basilic.* done in the Court of Exchequer, and for a Return of the Orders made, or Causes set down on further directions and exceptions. for the last six years, in the Master of the Rolls and Vice-Chancel lor's Courts ; and the present arrear of Causes is both Courts. The Hon. Gentleman said, that in consequence of the great delays of business in the Chancery Courts, it was tut of the power of the Lord Chancellor to dis patch the business within that reasonable time which suitors have a right to expect. He was concerned hithself in a cause which commenced in 1819. A decree was made in 1821, referring it to the Master, to say who was heir at law to the, testator : in the yeai 1824 the Master made a Report, and the cause was set down in 182 e. Rrom that time to the present it bad remained en the Paper; and though the Judge had used every expedition the cause had not yet been heard. He had several other cases of vexatious delay. which he could cite, and be felt the more anxious to. get the returns, as he had hea f id that the subject was to undergo a Farltatnentary investigation this Session; and he knew that the causes in arrear were a great many in number. In the Vice-Chancellor's Court they amounted to 188, and before the Master of the Rolls to 57. His second motion would put the House in possession of the amount of the bills filed in the Exchequer Court, and the number of decrees made, so that they might be in full possession of the relief afforded to the Court of Chancery. The Honourable Gentleman said, his motion would be for Returns for three years, previous to the year 1817, and at subse quent periods to that date, in order to see whether the business of that Court had increased or decreased, and whether measures could not be adopted to ensure to the Court of Chancery cadent aid. The Hon. Gentleman havingu read his motion, Mr. BATLEY seconded it. He considered that the objects of the motion would be extremely beneficial to the country, as the speedy administration of justice was one of its greatest blessings. The Hon. Gentleman passed high eulogiums on the character of the Lord Chancellor. He said, he knew nothing of the venerable Judge personally. He never received any favours from him, and his opinion of his merits was founded solely upon the veal and ability which be had displayed in his °lice. Mr. Secretary PEEL was not prepared to go into the discission of the question, and in the absence of the Mas ter of the Rolls, the Attorney and Solicitor-General, he would suggest to the Holt. Gent. the propriety of not pressing his motion. He hoped that he would abstain front the discussion until such time as the House should have the benefit of the opinions of the Learned Gents. to whom be alluded. Mr. SPENCE said he would willingly withdraw his motion for the present. He would give time for all parties to be prepared.— Motion withdrawn.