Star. — London, England, 1806-05-31 00:00:00

i *A franchife in conoties, to unite them to, and Rive them a. lake in, the Country. The Right Hon. Gentlemen °included a very argumentative fpecch, which lotted snore than two luaus, with various other _ obfavistiona. Sits JAMES PULTENEY thought that the temp. titian rimd to the public of limited Seeks. would rot materially promote the recruiting for the army. The Right Hon. Gentleman bad talked much about youthful ardour, and the love of milit sly fame, but he thought thefe were not the motives which had an ertenfive influence; the bounty was the attranion to which the fupply for the fervioe was molt indebted. lie confidered limitation of time, but not of (pace, aright be applied to the (mond battalion), and this was the nn.v way in which the concefflon 'mild be ;attended with any advantage. He did not admit that !he European armies were all under the limitation !green:ed. The Pruffians were, but the Ruffian. were not ; and whatever their conditions of fervice, eiretring the Swift foldiere. the troops of no nation nn the Cominent could be difcharged daring war. In Vrance. the year previous to the Revolution, it was by lux ordonnanc• 'naked, that no man in her armies Mould obtain his difeharge during war. The all French ordonnance on this fubje& was aliened to the "enlifting recruits for eight years, but it was not chargeable with the abfurdity of the prefent people rion—of rejeningencs who offered themfrives for per petual (mice. During the (even years' war, the French were defeated is every direaioo. and their ewisforrones were in a great degree to be attributed to this limitation. After a man had endured the hardflrips and perils of actual (mice, it was naturally to be expelled, that he would retire from theft dilE• tulties and dangers to cafe and retirement,.if be had the option of clang fn ; in the sort interval thole mi litary habits wonld not be fn completely formed, on which the Right Hon. Gentleman had dilated with pa muds confidence. The Hon. Baronet proceeded to flew the dillinnions under which he had noticed limited fervice in his own poldication.and concluded with afferfing the impolicy of it under the precept 4:immune/tees of the country. Mr. YORKE differed extremely from the Right lion. Gentleman on the Ibhjea of his military projet, and wifhed that before filch a rneafure was adopted. the opinions of men of talents and experience in the army th,,uld be taken. The plan was a mere matter of theory, unfupported by pnetiec ; and yet on this (peculation the Committee were called upon to in troduce a clan& into the Mutiny Bill which might be attended with the moil ferious mischief. He hoped that the Right Hon. Gentleman would have made a beneficial ufe of the long interval (ince his Icheme was fiat pet - spored. by colitaing the bell opinions on *c Sheen. Indeed he (Mr. Yorke) had beard with inutile, that forte military men of high rank had very recently communicated their fentiments in dime eqophfition to what was now propeed. But what ever might be the judgment of others, he entered his prate/ again?! the meafttre ; and whatever ?Infantry the Right Hon. Gentleman might employ in athifion to so 'specifics in a former debate, he (\tr. Yorke) declared his feelings se basally and cankientionfly as the (worn fervama of the Crown. Anson; the ob jeaions he had to nate, one was on confhtutiowal grounds, and. that was, that the natafure ihoulabe *legated on the Mutiny Bill. It was not at all DC ceffare, that in a pica of this kind the Legiaa ture Mould interpose r the Royal Prerogative was perfectly competent to the purport. Was not the pledge of his Majefty a full and fufficient feent ley to the foldier ? itenl if it were to, why interfere with the le- Isitimate ezercife of the Kingly authority ? Suppofing is Majelty Ibould difapprove of this Itheaw, how could he give his negative to the Mutiny Bill, which was connened improperly with it ? He did not ta ped, that even loch a Constitutional objenion would be fufficient to change the views of Ministers : he bad feta too much of their difpolition to adopt crude plans, and of their tenacity and obHinacy in adhering to them, when they fat on a different fide of the Honfe, to weft that any thing he could fay would vary their intentions ; from others who were snore mineable, he Ibould have hoped at lean, that a awe. fare for which there was confeffedly no immediate neettifity, and which was remotely profpeetive, would not be pertinacioufly defended. or precipitately adv., led. To the army and navy we were to look for pro. talion in theft perilous limes. The military fyltem had been found hitherto adequate to all our purports —it was therefore fomething work than folly to ha-' seed this innovation. He had heard no fans, and little calculation ; and it was too much for Mini/en to expen, that their mere affertions of the policy of the (theme were t.) fupply the place of all former ex perienee. What was the (fate of the army when this great alteration was deigned ? The Britilh army he would venture to fay, had never been in a higher Pate of difcipline. Exclufire of tile artillery, the fit reign and local forces, And the militia, it conli:led of sco,Ooo men, of which only about fourteen il fif teen thoufand were for limited fervice. On the a6oh June. 18og,there were wanting to compkte tliearmy 46,806 men ; and to fupply thefe, there were the Additional Force Bill, and the other fuhfidiaty mea. lures, which hat! been fo far fucceLtul, that he under- Resod, from the confeffion of NE:tillers themfclves, the deficiency was row only twenty thottiand. Then ifie cafualtieson an average of 1803, tnoa, and tBos. l a Were t 6.746. and dedudtir.g the foreign nod local th rtes, one twelfth ofthe whole, or thirteen thoufand. ll'hatever plan was propoled, it Sould be competent to meet this deficit of twenty thoufand, and thirteen thoufand for the eafualties, or in the total thirty.three thoufatisltnen. There were two periods in the modern hilloty rf this country, in which limited ferrite had been attempted; the one was Lord Bolinghrt.ke's. the other in Lord North's Adminifhation,and the turner De reckoned among the worn times of our annal..— Since the time of Wiiliam 111. with thole exceptions, the enlifting had always been for unlimited fervice. It had not been comely Paid that the service was during life : it was confidered, that atter twenty four Cents every man was entitled to his difcharge, al though it could not be thinly claimed as a right. be. caul" the engagement was fir a term commenforate with the withe. of the Sovereign, under the parlia mentary searinions applicable to the cafe. It was in the ltth of Anne, that a claufe was 'dated in the ' Nit:Kitty Bill, limiting the fervice to three years, and r.rquiting of the foldier three mo nths notice if he in tellied to retire. So far the refcniblance was pre• faired with the peek= mature ; but it was not at. r Ittstpted to rint flat as osperlateat in the time of ,: ~i wan ; it was immediately startle pia" Of Utrecht. In another refpea alto it varied : it was extended to the exiaing army. This pitied maid maintain:its ground only two years ; for as fonts as the Houle ofl Hanover focceeded, and the Whig Minifters were reflored, the chafe was rejected ss dangernns and im p• The intention of Bolingbroke was to defeat the fneceffiun of the Hoofs of Hanover ; and, by leaving the country without the oroteition of that annv which fought noder William and the Duke of Marlborough, to introduce the Pretender to the Throne. The new: inflame of limited fervice was in the American war. All the regiments were to recruit for three years. or during the Rebel lion ; but that regulation did not. like the prefent, emend to the Artillery and the Cavalry.—That !yam prevailed from 1775 to the end of the war : in 1779 it was made a fubaantive elaufe in - the All ; before that time it was under the authority of the King only. So many pans of ill's new feheme teemed to be imitated from Lord North's projea, that it would be material to enquire into the fitted' of the latter. Ti.e ordinary recruiting, en the ay-rage at that time, fupplied 11,780 men ' • the fame, with the admit) on to unlimited from limited fervice, 19,3 to; the fame, for limited fervice. 28,470. This was the firft period to which he would beg the atten tion of the Committee. The fecond was the three fir(l years of the laa war, when men were railed for unlimited fervice. and rank was given for recruits ; which tall expedient he did not approve The ave rage railed at that time was 35,95; men per annum. puling the three Ora years of the American war, the number was only 11,63: per annum. In this talcs,. lation, formed from papers on the table, hr had been obliged to make an allowance for the trans ter of men from one regiment to another who appeared as new recruits, for which he had in the one cafe allowed one fifth, in the other one-fifth of the whole. He would now advance to the third period, when the plan of general recruiting was adopted. as by the Bills for the Army of Referee awl the Addi tional Force. By thefe expedients more than sox= men had been ntifed. Such was the itlCZelik which was now to be refignzd for there fanciful thenrie. ! He had fisted the dzficiencies at 20.000, the c-... ties at 13e000 ; but was this number only to be provided againll ? The time was come when it might be expelled that our army was to encounter an ene• my front to Runt, and, in addition to the ordinary, we might expel ext. &ordinary cafualties. Would thefe new.fangled lchemes antwer fuch demands ? Al though he admired, as much as any man, the amnfing talents of the Right Hon. Gentleman, ye:, on filch a grave occafion. tat Houle looked more anxioullr falls than for jolts ; they were unwilling to be dazzled when they ought to be Wormed. There was an (tying, which the Right Hon. Gentleman would do well to recoiled, W,: thonld be witty and wife;" he was always witty, but he did not uniformly con ned the other quality, which was more important...- To r to the American war. What did this fa tomtit, fyllem then produce ? It wa. !loaned from 1773 to 1785, and fupplied annually tx.xon men. The calculations were not hypothetical. they were founded on papers which had been nn the table of the Haute. In 1778, t 77g, and 1783, the calve,- ties were *7,865. With all the efforts ih it could he made to regain what was celled the brighteli jewel in the Britilh Crown, only 19.161 men were mired ; and deduding the calualties, there only remained in favour of the army 1296 men. Wit: , lliii pro ceeding further, from this Ilion comparative view, would not every difcreet Miniller pante , before he repeated fo hazard su, an experiment In the year 1779• the deficiency was 25,279 infantry, and the whole ellabliatment t t t,oco. In 1782, the former Vas 26,504, and the latter it 73,•. - co. the whole com• plement now wanted is one-fifth part, whereas in the American War it was one fourth, fo that under the pretended advantages of the limited fervice, under Lord North's adminiaration, one quarter of the army 1 was deficient. At the termination of the fcheme for limited fervice, the army wits lipirt to the number of 30,000 men, and this deficit was one of the ;talons affigned for the acceleration of the peace. But this was not all—the Imited let vice occ rfioned a mutiny in the army, which expofed the country to the molt ferious dangers ; the expectation of being retested from military duty occafioned difenntents, and moil Gentlemen would know, at leaf, as a matter of hit tory. that at Pialfroonth a fpirit of this delituaive kind prevailed in the 77th regiment, and that im portant gatrifon was placed in the Mail alarming fi 'nation. Such was the flare of the Army at the eonelution of the Ametican war. The navy and the finances were in the fame deplorable condition ; yet fuch was the peritsd (torn which !simians had feted ed their model. The next contideration was the po. tithe entharraffritent which would entire from the measure. One great evil would be, diet difcipline would be relaxed. Such was the ilate of the Militia when the Service was for three years. In 1731, a falutary change took place, and it was immediately found, that the men attended to the duties of their prole ffion. The matte:al inconvenience, in regard to the Col-nial fervice, there had been tl , endeavour to remove. He was in hopes, after the Right Hon. Gentleman had taken fo much time tor contidera i lion, that he would have come forward with fome plan to obviate this difficulty. Could Minitters le. I tinnily mean to precipitate this meafure. without pro tiding for this important part of the fynem. The army infthe Cat Indies prefented another oblli uaion. B y true t line the men had ATI li iytd. and had beer leamcd to the climate, and prepared to face the enemy, to eonfiderable a portion of their time would be expired, that they could be of very little ufe to the feu vice. He timid think it a great dereliaion of his duty if he did not (late there oiler minions to theCrim mittee, and he hoped the Ritiht Honnorable Gentle. man would have b:en in his place to have attend. ed to them. Mr. Secretary FOX.—" He is now preen,, al• though he has eicaped the notice of the Right Hon.' Gentleman." Mr. YORKE thanked the Rig h t Hnn. Cent!eman and then continued. H tving attended to 'he poAr ve end:tenement. he would near look to the probable danger. It was clear that t 7,h would not be di! charged annually. but ifs or 6000 men were to avail tkcanfelves of their privilege, it would be A very le- Fiona lois. It was faid that a great mineber would enliß again. But were they to legitlite upon tbefe conjetlitres and fuppolitious. in a matter uffei , ng the ircurity and independence of the Ernirire • • s • minuets fiances might &Coning, tie ranking... A& t We Were thus refigning our veteran tennis'. Of this kiik'cl would be a mortality in the Weft colic,. This nieifure was not expelled to operate for two or three years, and then it was raid it would be a permanent improvement. lull at the time when the Right Hun. I Gentleman dated its beneficial influence, he ( Mr. i • Ynrke) expelled its pernitt“us effeßs. Nothing NC- Milers had done had infpired him with confidence in , their afTertions and opinions, and there, Without Gelb and experience, were the only foppnrt of this prier!! ; ; yet he did not nppofe it from any principle of lintii. lity to them ; he proteßed again& it honetily and eonfcientioufly, from a defile to fulfil his duty to his cranium Government knew better than he did, if any rffenfire operations were intended againtt the enemy ; he did not, indeed, fee the leaft probability of filch tfiferprites ; brit, if any hopes of this kind were indulged, they mrift be utterly fruflrated, by abandoning the wirer meafures whi. h had been ref ot ed to for the annlioration of our military enablifh ment. Having raid this much, he had now difAarged his mind ; he waffled his hands of the meafilre ; and whatever might be the dangerous cnnfequences of it, Ministers would be refponfible for ;heir oa n impolicy and precipitation. ' Colonel CRAUFURD rote, as be raid, principally for the purport of replying to that part of the fpeech of the Right Hon. Gentlemen who had jolt fat down, which regarded colonial fervice. He would admit that it would always he neceffar y to keep a confider able part of the Regular Army in the Eall Indies; perhaps not tell than a 1,000 men. The wane of that army he would calculate in the prophrtion of one to feven, In that, upon the average et fe ven years. about 300) men would be requilite to make up for the con• iiimption. Whatever might he the opinions of other Gentlemen, he could not but confider it as extremely hard, that, of thole who fought our battles within the tropics,nne fourth fhnuld be ;Nev.:need from returning home. According to the prattice which had prevailed for many years, fro fldievs who went to the EA Indies had any chance of ever re-visiting their nacre country. It was not minims! f r regiments to conti• nue there for twenty years and upwards. If the new fyflem were ndnpted, this hardship would be removed; for, though there might be inconvenience in bringing a regiment home, there world he none in alloying few men belonging to it to return. As to Ns Well Indies, thin was ton gloomy a part of the fubjed to enter upon ; but even there, he would contend, the inconvenience of the ferrite had been very much ex aggerated, as indeed the colonial lervice in general had been. He world now offer a few words to th e Cntnrnitree with tefueS to the general question. It was anted, why snake any change, where was the re celrty for it ? To this he would anfwer, that the ne• catty was great and urgent; the glory and fafety of the State were involved in ir, and Minitieri, in:lead of having t h e i r rue : ew es thwarted, were entitled to the natinnal grat'!ude for I-rano:trig that change whit would enable us to hold our rank among the Powers of Europe. The ordinary means of recruiting were inadequate to furnifb the neeetrary fopplr; Compar ing the Army as it florid in ifios with its amnont in March 18)5, there was an absolute deereafe in the Infantry, and of that a very serge proportion was not applicable to fcrreh'n fervice. It at this time aft year Gratcrnment had a ch;polable force of 100.000 men, would Bonaparte have dared to milt the env' and march sterol. the lihine ? With a inch a force, what was there to prevent us from landing, taking burning the thrilla, and b.:earning masters of that particular part of the country? Ir vas to make tip for - this lamentable dried, that the prefent Government was endeavouring to create a difp.nfe able army. The principle of limited ferrite was not that innovation that was fappofed. l a th e t wo La miniarations, in which the Noble Lord ( Lord Cas- T sst) was concerned, it was dittintlly recog nized, firft in the Army of Reftrve att. and next in the Additional Force Bi'l. The unlimited fervice was one of the chief °Nations to entering into 11-e army. and the frequency, the fecurity, and, ;Acre all, the publicity of corporal p u nishment w a s another. So far hum apprehending any t eta r ation of difcipline from a leis frequent nit a corporal po::i:litnetit, st was hi: opinion, that the moral chat odet' Of every regiment would be much improved by it. Thei e was alfo another objettion to entering into the arrny,whlch would be in a confiderahie dvgree retrieved by the plan detailed by his Right Honourable Friend. The lervice, as it was constituted at prefent, was the moll arduous, and at the fame time tile worn paid.-- The prepack' penfion would obviate much of this ob jetlion, for there were but few Striations in which a poor man could hope to tit down with a certain in come for life after twenty•one years fervice. What a miferable fyftetn was that of the Noble Lord and his colleagues, by which the military thength of the country was tied hand and foot, and we fuffered the enemy to do every thing in our pretence without pu nithing trim ; but that, however, was nothing to tire pui pole. There was a great difference radiated In the foldkr's charaSkr, by enlisting for feven years or for the ccminuance of the w ar. In the latter cafe, he would naturally be attaiorri for peace, the •ery mutt quality a foldier could poirefs. But that eaten this mode of enlillment would not produce the m itehi e t s the opponents of the principle of limited service teemed to apprehend, be had only to icier to the American war, in the progrefs ^f witich no leis than 7tt,eino men had entitled only for tire time it Swath' continue, and the moral qualities of the seventy tegiments into which they had entitled, were fully equal to thole of any of the re s i. I ments of which the prefent army was compofcd.— Every one who heard him was acquainted with the brilliant details of that glorious campaign in Egypt, in which Britifh gallantry was as confpicuous as in the proudelt period of our hiOnitl a and yet he could appeal to many officers now in the Houle, whether conliderable part of that army was not enlisted for limited fervice ? It had been aliened. that the Prac tice of enlitling far limited fame did not prevail among any of the great military powers of Eurnpe. ' Were he not fearful of fatiguing the Houk, be would read the ordermancer which had been from time to time publilled in France, and he would prove from there that from the year 1694 down to the French revolution. the principle bad been ter:cog nized and re/tined to in that country. Indeed tire great Martial Saxe no ordinary authority upon h lubjees. had cwt.:fay recommended that no man fhould be enlisted for some than flee years. It wa, true, as it had bees Old.' WC4 On the Other fitter that . . Wiles ditietal Wathirrgt tut trAt the cimmand -f he American army the period of fervice was only for a year, but it was n. I to ibar, Ilona a, it wan, that he attributed its want of difcipline, but to the no tins, of equality that it had imbibed; notions, :era haps, infeparable from the caufe for which thee were contending. It was there notions which made t4e men difribedient to their office's, and not the limited fervice Tn thn(e who apor , liend,d t 0..• r from difcbarging the men in cafe of inept n, he Would obferve, that in that event not a fine( man w nl ' be difcharged. So far from i , hi. .slai tv weld to entitled to call for the fel vices of. ye., aria fn the longelnm capable of hearing arms. The Right Hon. Gentlemen appeared to rely rr itch up , as the mutiny which broke out about the end of the An eel can war in a regiment enlisted for limited ferv'ee--. but that mutiny, he would crnread, wa• ed by a grofs and flagrant breach of firth in the G vet n menr. See the fah of the cafe. The min %tie en lifted doting the war. Preliminaries nt peace had been signed, and yet, in the interval between theie and the ratification of peace, the regiment received orders to embark for the Eall Indies. How was it pc flible for men, far circumflanced, to receive the be nefit of the terms upon which they tntered? He would maintain that it was Eder for us to Mimi:lnce slits fyl tem of I:mi:ed service than any other pi.wer in En rope. Whenever we make war it is by detachments, the great body of our force can only meet the enemy in a coafltel upon cur own &ire, ; and in the event of an invalion, we have as complete a nOlitai y con fcription as any power in. Europe. With refpeet t o th e Volunteers, be would even admit tl'at a force of that defcriprion, overmatched as we are in ovu lation, might be very ufeful and necefftry ( carr:et of hear, lea', from the oppAe Imam) A great ads' in tage to the etablithment of limit e d f t rvice would he. that the three or four thotifind men who might be annually difcharged, would not he 1011, they might be converted into drill ferjeants or excellent recruit ere. Gentlemen fay, they fee no prefent advantages likely to refult from the fyltem, he could perceive miny. At the fame time, he would admit it had it: inn inesniences alto ; and if his Right Hon. iend had ever f:id it had none, he had done hunfelf wrong.— Saaprofing the war was to Lift for ten years, not a tingle man would be difcharged is confeeptence cf the meaftsre. Ent one of its greatest advantages, perhaps, would be that it would greatly dimiltiflt the praflice of deletion. When that monflrous evil was correlled, men would gradually become reennciled to the fers ice, and have Id a ohjeaions en en" 1 after their term was expired. It would alto have this immediate elate when a man. whole time was nearly expiring, knew that he was to be detained fur three years more, he would have little hefitation in accepting the bounty, and enlihling for the [mond period of feral years. He could not help alluding to a former debate, fr far as to observe noon the impropti , :ty of the language which was then nfed by a Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Cannily:), who had reprefented the at ms as di:r4:l.fied with the proposed fyllem. He could ap peal to many officers who had heard him. whether any fnet ditratisfaflion exilic!? Much as that Right Hon. Gentleman was diipided to ridicule what tie ca ll,d a pot of beer, any man who knew the gene ral feelings which prevailed among I.ldier, mod know that even to trifling a boon as that would be received with gratitude. It Was alto in ca ntemplaiion of Government to give an addition of one twelfth, and ot one firth of the natal pay to thole who had completed different periods of lervice, and to dlr chat ge all thole of the prefent army within a certain time atter the re toratiun of peace, who fhould have completed their twenty-one years of fervice. The in et with refpel to India he could not attain help t.bferring were very much exaggerated. He could not reconcile it to hi: notions of humanity that men limuld be kept there for life. Now they can only come home as clippies or invalids. Whereas under the intended fyfiem, though the regiment con tinued abroad, the men would come home as their periods of fervire expired. He n far arced with :to Hue, General (Sir James Pulterey) as to approve 4.1 keepiny, tip fecund battalions. The Right Hon. Gentleman who preceded him in the debate asked, how are you to make up fir cafualties? He wo.uld ask, in his tot n, had the late Miniflers, or the Ailini nitiration in which the Right Hon. Gentleman was concerned, made provifion for any fuch emergency ? But the fad was, that the prefent Government had made provifion. They intended to eflablifh a re lei re of 20C9000 men to fill up the breaches, in cafe any accalinn lbould arise in which we timid have to contend with our whole farce. The plan in his opi nion was wife, predicable, and fife. It would tend to give Ilditlity and permanency to our army, and what was, perhaps, of as much conliquence, to in creak ha character. He felt a perfect convidion, that the fyllem only required a fair trial to obtain the ge neral concurrence and approbation. Sir JAMES PULTENEY thought it nececiary to cntreet an error itito which the Hon. Gratleman Teemed to have fallen refpeCing the army which served in Egypt. The greateß part of that army coolitted of men who had enlifled fur unlitohed ter• vice. There was nut above a regiment or two whole contlitution was otherwife. Colonel CltA UFURDfai 3, that atoll ofthe soth, 4oth, and Both (frith) regiments were compufed of teen who had enlifted fur limited fervice, limited as tu fpace and time only. General LOFTUS Paid, that he had lifiened with the grearelt attention to the Right Hon. !lie St:ere:ll.y f .r the War Department, and that he thought it but tight. tu gave the plan a fair trial. He originally had great objeifitons to enlifiments for limited (mice, but the ciente by which it was propofeel to retain the men for three years, if it timid be neceffary, after the espitatinn rf the full period of fervice reconciled him, in a great degree, to the meatball. His objeclions to it were greatly diminifhed, if out entirely removed by . this alterati -.n; and he would, therefore, decline malt. jig any oppoiition to the el.,* which it was intend ' eel to introduce. General NORTON declare./ hirnfeT in favour of e niiitm c va for limited litr%Pet:. c,4! cry thrt inv4 plarrfrr the guifii 9 R- Mr. CANNING then to& and (aid, he emit.' not allow A lei:alum of loch waft importance to be btu ried to a deeition ia that manner. It had been the con dant pildice of Parliament to proceed with cau tion in the conlideration ; of impottact changei, and not t pree : p tate them m the manner the preleat } ~~ ~• 1'