Star. — London, England, 1813-02-23 00:00:00

N I, P4RL14.41,E1V74kr PROCEIA/NGS. HOUSE OF LORDS, FEBRUARY 22.. WRIGHT V. DICKSON AND ANOTHER. The Faris of ALBEMARLE and NIALSIESSURY, and Lord ASHBURTON, took the oaths and their seats. • This WRM an Appeal from the Gotta of Session in Scotland.-- Tke question mated to the burning of lime in the barony of Cousland, and the right of procuring.coals on the same estate for that and oilier purposes. A suspension and interdict bad been obtained against the Appellant, and several Decrees of tharCourt li-d denied the rights which he claimed, undtr a lease • from Sir John Dalrytople ' against which he now appeal e d to th e ir Lo r d- Ships, and conten ded that the Court of Session had not construed that enutract sel ich ought to decide these righta, but had made a '.sew (Qt:tract fir his performance. Mr ApA” and Mr. HORNER were beard in behalf of the lippellant.—nether proceedings on Wedne.day. ReMAN CAI IiOLJCS. The Bishop of CHESTER presented a P et i t i on r , H of tlie Inhabitants of Cluster, against the Claims of the Roman Catholics. The Petition was read and prdered to lie on the table. Lord KENYON-said, he held in his hand a Peti, ott from the Clergy and Inhabitants of the County of Denbigh, against the Roman Catholic Claims.— ' Be observed that this Petition was signed by a great ' number of respectable persons at a Meeting held for the purpose, where, he thought it his duty to state, that the Petition was agreed to unanimously, ex cepting one who was dissentient, and who read a letter front the Hon. Baronet who represents that County, and which contained his sentiments on the subject of The Meeting. Lord KNYON presented a similar Petition from the Inhabitants of the County of Merioneth.— Beth these Petitions were ycall o and ordered to lie on the table. Lord BIJLKELEY presented a Petition from the Inhabitants of the County of Carnarvon, against the Roman Catholic Claims. Ordered to lie on the table, i t The Marquis of I-lEADFORT presented a Peti tion from the Protestant Inhabitants of the County of Meath, against the Roman Catholic Claims, I The Marquis of LANSDOWN said, from the in terest he had in that county, he had an opportunity ..,of knowing that this petition did not express the I sentiments of a large pertion of the Protestants of the county ;—and that, from a counter petition, which would shortly come before their Lordships, it .would be evident that the greater part of the Pro. testants of landed interest were in favour of the con t sideration of the Catholic Claims. The Petition was read, and ordered to lie on the table. The Earl of RADNOR presented two Petitions from Salisbury—one from the Corporation, and the otter ficm the Inhabitants—against the Claims of the Roman Catholics; which were read, and ordered to he on the table. The Earl of RADNOR next presented a Petition from the Corporation of Wallingford, in Berkshire, I against the Roman Catholic Claims. The Noble Larl proceeded to read this petition, which in its tide was stated to be the petition of " the Corpora. tion of Wallingford." 'He observed, that at first it had occurred to him, this description of thmselves, as a corporation, was not so-correct as to permit the receipt of their petition, according to t'le forms of their Lordships' House ; but he was aFterwards in duced to think, that their Lordships w .uld have no objection to receive it—for vd atever defect might exist in the description they had given eiernselves in :- the title, yet the petition had their corporate seal affixed to the same. Lord HOLLAND thought the Petition could he received as that of those only who h id subscribed it. 'lt was not entitled by that appellation which legally denominated the Corporation of Wallingford. Lord ELLENBOROUGH said, if there had existed in Wallingfirrd two corporations, this pea r tion, by stating itself to be the petition of " the Cor i poraticno" he should have considered it bad, on ac count of uncertainty, and that their Lordships ought not to have received it ;—but there being only one corporation in Wallingford, it was quite certain, and haying the corporate seal, there could be no objec tion to its being received as the petition of that corporate body. Lord HOLLAND was sorry if, by any question he raised as to the propriety of receiving this Peti tion, he might incur again what had been imputed ,to him by a Nthle Viscount, that he treated these !petitions with too much scrutiny ; but still he mutt 'say, that the description of this Corporation was not t that mhich was , applied to them by their Charter, and which alone they could constitutionally represent themselves as a Corporate Body. The Petition ought to have been that of the Mayor, Recorder, and Corporation or Wallingford ; and, therefore, he did not perceive how this retition of the Corporation of Wallingford could be received as such, when he had another Petition of a contrary tendency from :the Mayor, Recorder, and others, of that Corpo ration. The Earl of RADNOR considered the objection of the Noble Lord grounded upon his own observa tions, as to the title ; brit still the objection wou ld 'not apply to the known seal of that Corporate Body. !What the Noble Lord had stated to be the title o f his own Petition, would be equally exceptionable as to . the description of the Corporation ; for, ecrrectly, ;it ought to be the Mayor, Burgesses, and Commons of the Borough of WallingfOrd. Viscount SIDMOUTH, on the question of pro priety before their Lordships, upon the r.eeipts, ex• pressed himself decidedly of opinion that Cie Petition having the Corporate Seal, it ought to be received as such by the House. The seal was sufficient authority to their Lordships, whx.ever casual error might at tend the description, that the Petition was that of the Corporation. He must, indeed, observe, ill answer to an observatiOn made by a Noble Lord (HolL n d) that these Petitions had been treated in a most ex. traordinary manner. Every sentence, and ~:inost word, had been canvassed with the iiitentt of placing obstacles in the way 'of their being presented. It c.rtanly was more liberal in that House to look over Lice tiecidkntal informalities of a Petition. It had been in,imated by the Noble Lords opposite, that Petitions oil this nature were be viewed differently, from Petitions in general. But was it no; highly proper, after the declarations made by those Noble Lot irs of the Protestants in this country, being, if . not fivoura le, at least not unfavourable, to the concession of these claims to the Catholics, that Pe titions slautzid come before the Legislature for the pt 'pose c Wonting th.es.n what wen sentiments and opinions. The Noble Lords them selves had caused these Petitions, and the Prote stants of tliis conntry, knowing that this question would shortly come under the discussion of Patlia meat, had in a very large proportion, though mine' of them might entertain different opinions, come forward and expressed their wish that these claims should not be conceded. Their conduct he ap proved of, as it tended to chew an extremely im portant point, after the declaration of the Noble Lords, viz, what was the sense of the Protestants of this country. Lord REDESDALE entertained some doubt as to the propriety of receiving this Petition, for want of necessary correctness in the description they gave of themselves as a Corporation. They could not have. sued by such a description it was clear, and therefore they ought to have been otherwise named in the Petition, At the same time he perfectly accorded with the other observations of the Noble Viscount. Lord ELLENBOROUGH thought the title suf. ficient in all ordinary cases, though there was no dooht if they had by such description sued on a bond, or in an action of trespass, in the King's Bench, he should have directed a nonsuit immediately. D. in deed, there had been any other, suppose an Eccle. siastical Corporation at Wallingford, he should have said their Lordships could not receive it for want of certainty, but there being no other Corporation, no doubt could exist as to the Cor?oratio* described, and under such circumstances, he considered this appella. Lion sufficient for this and all ordinary cases where they were concerned.. _ _ _ The LORD CHANCELLOR wondered that doubts could exist where he entertained none. The seal was a sufficient authority for the receipt of this Petition, and the description given was perfectly suf ficient for the present purpose. For instance, In a Court of Justice, their rights would to guarded on particular occasions without any other description.— Suppose he were to devise by his will certain devise able property to the Corporation of Wallingford, there could be no question but they could by that description take under the will, and a Court of law would so decide in their favour. - The Petition, as that of the Corporation, was or dered to be laid on the table. The Earl of RADNOR presented another peti tion from certain Aldermen and inhabitants of the Borough of Wallingford, against the Roman Ca tholic Claims. He said this was the Petition of those only who had signed it. It was signed with a view to any informality preventing the receipt of the other from the Corporation, and contained the names of many very respectable inhabitants. Ordered to lie on the table. Lord HOLLAND presented a Petition in favour of taking the Roman Catholic Claims into consi deration, from the Mayor, Recorder, and other inha bitants of Wallingford, in Berkshire, whose names were subscribed. He trusted their Lordships would receive this Petition, and though lie was not pre pared to point out the respectability of every indi vidual, he could assure the House it contained the names of several very respectable persons. Ordered to lie on the table. Lord SHEFFIELD presented a Petition from the inhabitants of Lewes, in Sussex, and the places ad jacent, against the Roman Catholic Claims. He said the Petition was signed by upwards of 4,000 persons, amongst whom were many dissenters, and several dissenting clergy. Lord HOLLAND inquired if the Petition were signed at a meeting ? Lord SHEFFIELD replied, there was, he be, lieved, no meeting. The Duke of NORFOLK thought it was neces sary to inquire how so many names could be pro cured without a regular meeting. If this Petition were handed about for signature, it would imply some agent being employed, and therefore he would thank the Noble Lord for any information as to the mode in which these signatures had been procured Lord SHEFFIELD could - not inform the Noble Duke particularly ; all he knew was, that it origi nated with the Dissenters. It was first transmitted to Lord Chichester, and afterwards to himself. The Petition was read, and ordered to lie on the table. Lord ROLLE presented a similar Petition from the inhabitants of Exeter. Ordered to lie on the table. Lord KINGSTON presented a Petition from the Protestants of the County of Sligo against the Ca tholic Claims. He took that opportunity of stating, that he would this year, contrary to his former prac tice, vote even against going arall into tae subject of the Catholic Claims. He had never contemplated concession to the Catholics without securities. The Catholics now, however, by many Itusolutions, of which he read one, had declared they would give no securities. It was therefore needless to enter upon a consideration of the subject, The Marquis of LA&SDOWNE said, of the mo tives of his Parliamentary conduct the Noble Lord himself was to judge; but the reason he had given for the change was at least a very unparliamentary one. For his own (Lord Lansdowne's) part, he would enter into the discussion, and in case of mea sures of conciliation being agreed upon, he would exercise his own free judgment as to what securities and restrictions he should at the same time wish to impose. He would not treat with the Catholics as an independent body, or enter into any stipulations with them. He said this merely with a view to the general principle, independent of the consideration or the value of any arrangements or securities. Lord KINGSTON thought that he acted right, as the Catholics were now coming upon them with demands, instead of Petitions. 1 he Petition was then read. The Duke of NORFOLK observed upon one part of it, whew it t,t , ited, that the Protestants were now roused ; these were most improper expressions. He was sorry to see such means for rousing made use of, in regard to religious subjects. They ought to re collect that the Catholics ‘‘ele four millions in num. bet-, and injudicious rousing on the one side might produce rousing on the other. Lord KINGSTON then presented a Petition to the same edict from the Protestants of the County of Tipperary. Lord HOLLAND said, that with 411 the latitude allowed, and pr‘ perly allowed, in the case of Peti, eons, it was tanposible tot to :egret the roethogi which some of them were drawn. It was too flinch, be thought, to be stating that the Catholics 'came with demands instead .01petitions, whet; the House had 110 . doc u ma; ts before it tb eatable it to form any opinion how that really was. Lord REDESDALE said it was notorious that the Catholics had passed resolutions, and sent abroad publications of the nature described. The whole of the Petitions were laid on the table. Lord CHARLEVILLE presented a Petition from the Protestants of the County of Carlow against the Catholic Claims. A Petition to .the same effect was presented from the County of Monaghan.—Both laid oc the table. MISCELLANEOUS. Papers were presented from the Courts of Chancery and Ex chequer in Ireland, and from the India-dock Company. he Report of the Insolvent Delators' Bill was received. Lurd WALSINGHAM .presented some Petitions relatiy. to the East-India Company. The con►ideration of the Banbury Peerage case was ISx.-d fun Friday. The LORD CHANCELLOR mated, he would give judgment to-morrow in some Appeal Cauaes.—Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. ELLIOT moved a new Writ for the County of Bucks, its the room of Earl Temple, now Marquis of Buckingham. Sir M. W. RIDLEY presented ; Petition from Newcastle upon-Tyne against the monopoly of the East India Cosnrany. Alderman ATKINS reported from the Weymouth Ct.innoit tee, that Lord Viscount Hinchinbrook had been absent, and that the Committee had in consequence adjourned. Upon a Medical Gentleman stating that his Lordship was pre. vented attending for some time by indisposition, Lord Machin. brook was excused from farthest attendance. The Cornish Miners' Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed. Mr.MANNERS SU [TON moved, that Lord Robert Man ners should be at I,berty to ab,ent himself from the House for sli weeks, on account of ill-health.---Agreed to. On the motion of Lord CASTLEREAUH, Sir Benjamin Hob hour! and Mr. M'Kenzle,' were di.charged from the custody of the Serjeant at Arms, without paying their tees, having come down to the House at the time the defaulters were calli ng oy‘r. ROMAN CATIOLICS. Sir NV. LEMON presented a Petition from the County of Cornwall against the Catholic Chinn. Similar Paitions were presented, by Mr. KNOX, from the County of Tyrone; by Colonel Lentz, from the County of Mo naghan ; and by General ARCIMALL, from Fermanagh. The last Petition was signed by 10,300 signatures. All these Petitions were ordered to lie op the table. Mr. PARNELL presented a Petition from ./Eneas M , Donnell, a Roman Catholic, at Molders&ld, denying the allegations of the Anti Catholic Petition of that town, and praying that hi, Petition sbould be taken into consideration. —Ordered to lie on the table. Lord G, LEVESON COWER complained of a misrepresenta• flop (which he was sure was unintentional) in a Nbriiitig stating that he had presented a Petition from Walsall, M Staf fordshire, against the Catholic Claims. Ile had presented a Pe. tition from that town against the claim. of tin. East-lnd - a Com pany ; but neither from that town nor ally other town In Staf fordshire, had there been any Petition against the claims of the Catholics ; they left this subject to the wisdom of the Legislature. Lord S I'ANLEY also complained, that in all :ht• Papers there had been a misrepresentation in stating that surf, a Petition had been presented from Lantaist.:r. Now neithe; from the town nor county, of Lancaster had there been any Petit i, n of that sort, al though there had been one Irons Manchester. Lord YARMOUTH said, that he had distinctly stated the Pe tition he presented to be from the County of Antrim. (From the low tone of voice in which those Petitions are often stated and read, mistakes of this sort arc sometimes unavoidable.] AAIERICAN CONSUL. Mr. CROKER rose to correct a mistake vrtich he had made in his statement the other night, respecting the same of an Ame rican Consul who had sold certificates. He had stated it to be Mr. Lyman. Now although every other part of the ttatement was perfectly correct, he was mistalixn in the name, and General Lyman was not the Consul who had sold the certificates. He had also to mention now, that the name of the Oikcer to whose activity the safety of the homeward-bound Leeward island Beet was principally owing, was Captain Brook, of the Shannon: Mr. WHITBREAD was estrebtely glad to hear this correc tion of the mistake, as from all he had known of General Lyman, he was a man most unlikely to have committed such an action ;I and as he was now dead, it was more pecurtarly necessary that justice should be done to hi memory. Mr. CROKER said, that he felt in the fame way. He did not think it necessary now to mention the name of the person who had sold the certificates; but tt was a name so like Lyman, that the mistake was not unnatural. The House then proceed,:d to call over the list of defaulters ; when these who were absent without excuses were ordered to be taken Into custody; those who were present wet: ordered to at tend the ballot to-morrow. VICE-CHANCELLOR'S BILL. The Order of the Day being read for taking into further c(usideration the Vice-Chancellor's Bill, Mr. GORDON rose to oppose it. He said the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) had informed the House, that he wished it to go to a Committee for the pur pose of receiving improvement, and it had accor cingly gone through a Committee, but had not, in kis opinion, been made in the least degree more unex ceotionable ; and he now Woad that the Noble Lord was determined to force the 8.11 through the House by the overbearing argument alone of a majot ity. He was particularly averse to that part of the Lill , which went to take the part of the salary for this new Officer out of the Dead Fund, or Suitors' Money. The No ble Lord had no more right to take the sum intended out of that fund, than be had to say that he (Mr. Gordon) should pay towards it the sum of t'- , :uuo a-year out of his own estate. The Lord Chancellor had given up the principle by agreeiag to pay part of the salary cut of his own emoluments, and he thought he ought to pay the whole. He concluded by moving, that the Bill be recommitted. Mr. M. A. TAYLOR said, that having been on the Committee on the Fees received by the Lord Chancellor, he thought it right to notice many exag gerated statements which had gone abroad on that subject. He stated, that the whole of the Lord Chancellor's emoluments did not amount to more than from 18 to £20,000 a.year, The fees from bank. rupts were about 4E5000 a-year, and he had seen them exaggerated to A 17,000 per annum. It was the wish of the Committee, he said, that the salary of this great officer should be fixed and certain ; and he had himself mentioned the matter to the Noble Lord, and thought it would be well to settle. it ,t the average of the last five years, which the Nohl.: L. 14 thought reasonable, and that ISAMU a-) ear would be a lair compensation for the various labours of the otlice. He did not approve the Bill upon the whole, nor could he agree with Mr. Leach's plan, because he thought the Master of thelßoits had already enough on his hands ; but he thought it necessary to make these few observations, to obviate the gross mis statements he had seen. Sir F. FLOOD had voted originally against the Bill, but subsequent reflection, and the improve ments adopted in the Committee, had produced a change in his views respecting it. He conceived that the dignity of the Chancellor ought to be well snp. poled ; that he ought to go in state to the House of Lords, in a manner similar to that of die Irish Chan tenor, Who bad always three footmen behind his cat riage 4 laugh.) . Mr. ABERCROMBIE recommend e d t h e a d op. tion of a clause, dis lua iklyi ng t h e new Officer mu, sitting in Parliament. Mr. ROSE observed, that the Act of 1705 wax sufficiently explicit on this point. Mr. CANNING did not rise to enter into any dis cussion. as another opportunity would occur. He must observe, however, that all those argumeots which applied to the Bill on the second reading. andl which induced him then to oppc4.: it, remained un.rn. paired by any or the amendments which it had re. ceived from the Committee. He wa; decidedly of opinion, that the b..olcupt cases ought tc he taken out o f d r . ! . jurisdiction ();* the Chancellor, and 4upport any mea , ure (turned v:ith a view to that object. Mr. M. A. Tnviva explained. Mr. LOCLHART thought it of importance to know, whether the immediate jurisdiction of the Vice. Chancellor would emanate from a general commis. sinn granted by the Cronn, or st.h-cummission issued by the Chancellor ? The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said, the cont. mission would naturally issue from the Crown, the new ollice being the creation of the Legislature. He was of opinion, that the duties of the new ofice were sufficiently defined anti prescrilmd by the Bill. He had been severely chastised on a former evening f r not having read all the pamphlets on this subject ; and it had been intimated that he was but ill quali fied for giving an opinion on a Chancery question. He had, however, read all that had been written on the other side, and did not think it neczssary to for tify his opinion by reading what had been written in its support. The plan of an Honourable and Learned Gentleman iMr. Leach) appeared to him highly exceptionable. Its object was to impose additional duties and fatigue ton an excellent and illustrious Magistrate, at the same time that his labours had already rendered him incapable of continuing to re. present his native country in Parliament. It was preposterous, continued the Hon. Gentleman, he would not ample using even so harsh an !expression on the occasion, to expect any assistance from the Judges ill any of the Courts, already weighed down as they were with business, and labouring, as many of them did, under the pressure of years, which, while they added to the reverence due to them, cer. t.tinly unfitted them for an addition of toil. The Hun. and Learned Gentleman concluded with stat ing his unqualified approbation of du: 841. Mr. M. A. TAYLOR objected to an allusicu which he conceived had be:u made by the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, to something he had asserted him to have stated in his capacity as Chairman of the Committee. Sir W. GAItROW assured his Hon. Friend, that what he had said was in reference to the gene ral and extensive knowledge he conceived him to possess on the subject, and to that alone; with which explanation— ' Mr. TAYLOR professed hi mself perfectly satisfied. Mr. W HITBREAD was not a little surprised to find an Honourable and Learned Gentleman (Sir Willi m Garrow), who, on this day senniglit was, according to his own admission, an infant in what re garded his knowledge of the present subject, ris,n in stattne, within the Apse of 60 shcrt a period, to the towering height of a giant! On the former occasion, the Honourable Gentleman was unacquainted .%ith the subject--was all inexperience —and, in conse qeence, all ;flashing modesty and diffidence ; but to night he had come forward, speaking with the most plenary confidence, surrounded by Chancery lawyers; yet, apparently, quite forgetful of the principle on which he had before been sparing of his opinions, namely, that he was but an ignorant common lawyLr —one by whom the arcana of Chancery had never been explored. How this sudden access of know. ledge had been obtained, or this sudden decrease of modesty effected, it was not for him to say. but cer tain it was, that it could wit appear to the House but in the light of a very singular phenomenon. But howsoever rapid the method might be by which the Honourable Gentleman acquired his knowledge. he could not agree with him as to many of the opinion: he had advanced ; neglecting the lights by which, feeble as they might be, his own slower mind had been hitherto guided. He could not agree with him in particular with respect to moth of what he had said with respect to the Master of the Rolls, for whom, he - nevertheless, must be permitted to say, he enter tained as high a respect as could be feli by any one. But if the justice of what had been said with respect to his retiring from his Parliamentary duties from in ability to combine with his jedicial functions, were admitted, why should not a principle be thence de • duced which should ges to deprive the country o f the Parliamentary services of other great Law Officers; and, if that were the case, what lamentations should we not hear when the Hon. Gentleman should him- self withdraw to exercise his talents in a more con- - tracted sphere than that in which they were now dis played.—(Hear, hear! from the Trc,2sury Bencher.)— He (Mr, W.) was happy to find the Noble Lord, fur once, of the same opinion with him.—(4 For his own part, he wished the intended Vice-Chan cellor to be excluded from the House of Commons, and not only him but other Magistrates, who were now permitted to sit in it ;—the Master of the Roth, ter instance, for the admission of whom he could not see more reason than there was for that of the We'sir Judges, and other Magistrates, who were exclutel The Honourable Gentleman, he could collect troth what had fallen from him, had felt rather uneasy at some sarcastic expressions which had escape. , aim ( Mr. Whitbread) on a former night ; bur w':o Le had a little more experience of Parliamentary nest he hoped he would not be so captious, but would give and take these sort of things with ego/mi./lay, otherwise he had to deplore the very uncomic . table manner in wlikh he must of necess.ty pass his -rale. (A laugh.)-I'he Honourable Gentterm .n tits . i•'- ceeded to :rate that Sit Wm. Grant 1...1 arriv.sl the high Ake he held by means of ore taients tie twit displayed, and the exertions ac had made in Paj•i• ment—(No,frorn SOMIC prson on the Ministerial sin of the Hovse.).—He (Mr. l'i'llitbread) bi iicved, the 11° ' nottrible Gentleman tv is the 001 y person v.h.; dis puted the fact. :le would contend that Lach 1%.14 fact, admitting indeed at the same time, that it ILd have been very difficult to tied a person, seiettea upon whatsoever principle, so well aciapt_d to po i form the duties of the office. In alludin4 to Elden, the Honourable Gentleman said, dint sop,: