Star. — London, England, 1820-06-08 00:00:00

.. - which cottietatt propriety and justice requited la . ease, to believe in innocence till guilt was prot t'Veq but not to suspect outw ar d appearauces which coul not at first be explained, but which, after a little inH quiry, might be satisfactorily cleared up. He called I upon the House to bear in mind her peculiar situa tion :—a foreigner, unprotected, and nearly friend,. less, who had sustained a six years almost involun-. tary absence from England. Bearing these things in their recollection, he thought they would not eery severely blame her if she had fallen into the error of listening to the honest and well-meant recommenda tions of a friendly individual who had desired to serve her, even though those recommendations were not as in candour he would say he thought they were not) the recommendations of absolute wisdom—(A laugh). It was not surprising that she should open her heart to friendly advice so given, after the treatment she had experienced. He was surprised that the Noble Lord could construe the language of her Majesty's message on the 'subject of the Secret Committee, into an expectation that by that Committee she was to be ultimately judged. She knew that an open inquiry must follow. Not to suppose that, would .be to sup pose that laws more monstrous than those under which Lord Strafford and the wives of Henry VIII. perished, were to be resorted to on this occasion. The ricketty and shattered Administration, of which the Noble Lord was the organ in that House, did not dare to attempt acting such a part. He was con vinced it Would be found impossible to pass a Bill in the Secret Committee, without even witnesses being examined, and without the possibility of the accused being heard. He would not, therefore, counsel the Illistrious Personage to look upon this either as a concession, a demonstration of kindness, or as any proof that it was better to throw herself on Parlia- Assent than appeal elsewhere. But he would wait to see what course the House would take. But did any man, in his sober senses think of calling that Cem esittee a Grand Jury, of conjuring up any sort of analogy with that unimpeachable institution, which did not exist ? Did that, he would ask, did that stra. tagem take in any one person? There were many per sons in that House who differed both from himself and the Noble Lord ; but he would answer for it, there was not one man who was convinced by it, that there was any sort' of analogy between a Grand Jury and the tribunal about to be initituted. A Grand Jury, it would be olsserveri, in the first place, were all sworn ; in the next, they were entirely impartial— They were impartially selectede-the party ernpaanel ling had no connection with the issue--the aceused, as much as the accuser, wen concerned in sbe - cheice, of them. There w a s ao doubt they 'deliberated oie es parte evidence—but what stet a evidence? , (Hear.)—Was It 6n papers and letters—pities 0 , evidence, called evidence, brought from beyond shit Alps by a Secret COMMitiloll sent out by Goa bowel whom, but now well known for what purpose, via., to save the Committee of the House of Commons the trouble ot eaaminiug evidence. He stated him self to be utterly ignorant of the contents of the papers to be laid beforp the Committee. He had only seen the outside of that green bag, nothing more; and all his objection against it was, that the whole of the evidence was in that bag, and that there was not a living witness to be examined. He knew that some one would be called to prove that this was the signature of such a one—a Gentleman, perhaps, who had beeir sent out to make a residence of ten months at Milan—a member of the learned pro fession, who, till that ill-fated hour, stood high in the I , reputation of the world and the esteem of his friends. of the late King, softie new arrange tent became nes cessary. He had, hotvever, no hesitition in saying, that if that arrangement had not been made with re spect to the Prayers which had taken place, the course which must have been pursued • would not only have been unbecoming, but would have been absolutely a mockery. The instructions given to Ministers abroad had been issued so far back as in the year 1807, and nothing had been done since, so far as he knew any tiing of the matter, beyobd Calling their attention to the spirit and letter of those instructions...(f/ear), These grew out of an application made from a Ali nister to a foreign Court for information how to-act in the situation in which he found himself. Her Ma .;sty having. as was well known, been excluded from the English Court, it followed, as a matter of course, that it could not be required that she should be re leived at foreign Courts. Our Ministers, therefore, at foreign Courts, were instructed to take no public o r official notice of her Majesty, in the way of intro ducing her to any foreign Court ; and in the event of a foreign Court choosing to receive her en its own account,. the English Minister was nut to assist on the occasion. But saving the question of a public re ception, it was broadly and distinctly laid down in the body of their instructions, that they were to treat her Majesty with every respect, and afford her every facility and accommodation in their power. All the resti ictions wished to be imposed upon her Ma jesty when travelling was this, that she should not assume her public character. This suggestion was dictated by a wish to save her from the hiconve nicaces to which she was in the habit of exposing herself, from her being in the habit of pressing her self on foreign Courts, in her public character. 'fhe next question was, whether any unbecoming spirit had been manifested by Government in the reception given to her Majesty en her arrival in England ? Ifcr Majesty, as he had already stated, was apprised of the situation in which she would stand the mo ment after her landing in England. Some might thi;lic it harsh and unkind not to give her those fad. lities and honours which were usually afforded to the me•nbers of the Royal Family. It was, however, to be remembered, that fur a long time prior to her leaving this country, she had not been recognized as a member of that Illustrious Family, and, without abaiidoning that resolution which had been taken, and Ltd been announced to her Majesty, it was not for Ministers to take any step that might lead her to conclude that they had changed their determination. lie knew that remarks had been made on her taking up her .abode in the house of a private individual; but he could assure the House, • that there existed no disposition on the part of the Government to annoy or cramp her Majesty, and he was surethattliere was no feeling of that sort in a higher quaiter. .In proof of this, he might recal to the House the time when a larger graut to her Majesty (then Princess of Wales) had been sanctioned by 'the Crown than she thought it consistent in her then situation 'to accept. They would also remember, that on the first day of the Session he bad announced to the House that care had been taken to guard against any inconvenience being sustained by her Majesty from the lapse of her Income. He could further state to the House, that the moment it was known that the Queen had landed in England, a communication had been mace from the First Lord of the Treasury to the who might most naturally expect to rece i ve t e e r r g , °l :tating that there were no instructions on the part of Govern ment to subject her , to any inconvenience while the question to be submitted to Parliament remained uar decided, and, for any arrangements that might be necessary with respect to her residence, she had only to send to her Agent, and all would be set tled with due regard to her accommodation, The I louse, he doubted not, would treat this question with that calm and dignified attention which they' gave to all great questions; and the Public, though i; would share the anguish growing out of the pro- ceedings, would await respectfully the decision of Parliament. " But," said his Lordship, “ if there were any disposition to inflame the Public on this question, and I assure the Gentlemen opposite that I am satisfied, not only of such a wish being remotel from them, but that they would be, disposed to re-' press it wherever it might appear ; but, if such a dis position exists anywhere, and if her Majesty should unhappily ha v e l ent an ear to any mischievous and false adviser—(Dear, heat) -L-who would teach her that either her honour or her innocence (and I am , cure I wish that she may be enabled to establish both), will be best vindicated by such a proceeding, I hope the feeling of the Gentlemen on that side of tile House will satisfy her, that, far from attaining such a result by such means, opprobrium and re proach will pursue her, 'for being the dupe of such wicked and foolish men !—(Hear, hear).—l trust that her Majesty will now be awakened to her situation, and be convinced, that if she has an enemy on earth ssho would make her situation at once desperate and odious, in the eyes of all good and honourable men, it is he whit. would advise her. by a gat bled and false misrepresentation of the late proceedings, to appeal, not to Parliament, who would bear her cnnqittints and do her justice, but to those out of doot s, whose passions may be excited, and whose malice would be gratified, by disclosures that can only prove injurious to her, and calamitous to the country. if any individual, entertaining such views, should have presumed to approach her person ; who, from his incapacity to give good advice—(Hear, heco—or f rom hi s d es i re to mislead, bas conducted her into the thorny and crooked paths in which the ncw wanders, I hope that, roused to a sense of- her Teal situation, she will see that the best course shis 4 ' can take is to bring her case ip a oeimututional way :before Parlianient, and the only course which shel .:an take with propriety, if she wishes for justice. !low move, that the Papers yesterday communicated %. this House be referred to tt Select Committee to consider the matter thereof, and report their.opinione thereon to the House"—(Hear, hear, A s p). Mr. BROUGHAM felt satisfactioa that the hour', 'v. - as at hand when he might freely defend that Plitt"' :.ess, who was connected byblood and by markagn„ ‘rith the gttat fa m ily on w hi c h our cooS tltutiou s tested, or a: least wi t h w h om i t was so knitted, that, 'ln their interest, dignity, and popularity, the walfarii of the whole nation must depend. This Illustrious Lady, from her natural sagacity (putting the atti• dvint of her highibirth Out of uonsiderauon), would, '..eve instinctively shrunk from 'anything that wan Siean, impure, or degrading. He implored the House •'.* set out dispassionately. and WA only to do that That this individual should have lowered himself, he confessed had both surprised and pained him.— He begged pardon for the expressions he was using, but they were canvassing so freely the characters of illustrious individuals, that minor considerations must yield. He must again recur to this unpleasant sub ject, deprecating, as he did, the individual and the office. To go as he did, and sii prying into the most secret actions of domestic life in a foreign country— seeking for information among the filthy wine-houses, joining in familiar confabulation with the bargemen of the lake, porters, cast-off servants of mistresses— those detestable charaCters who, to the credit of Courts of Law, scarcely ever shewed their faces within them without having them stamped with in famy—to sit, he repeated, writing down all the tiule tattle of those reprobate characters. Before this he had thought better of human nature, more of the me rits of professional honour !—(Hear, hear). In saying this he was saying what he felt at the degradation of a professional brothe r . S uc h l ow o ffi ces, he-acknow ledged, must be performed ; but then let them be done by hands that could not be sullied by any Species of baseness—(Hear, hear). Let no man dip a finger in such filth who was not born to degrade the human species ! (Hear, hear). But it appeared that all this Committee could do amounted to nothing.— According to the Noble Lord, it could not bring in a Bill of Attainder against her Majesty, nor otherwise injure her; because in its capacity it could not adopt any specific measure in the matter. This entire harmlessuess of the Committee, however, be denied. The Report of a Committee of that House was no indifferent matter, He would put it to any one man present, how he would like a body, consisting of twenty-one persons, appointed to investigate into bis character, in the appointment of whom be had voice, and between whom and himself there were irremediable differences?. How then he would put it to that man—for he only suppined in the case the feelings of a man,how "would he like that before that Committee, selected by the servants of his antis. gonist, his conduct for six long years should be can. vassed—his conduct, too, paved at the distance of twelve hundred miles, without retstivipka tittle of evidence from him, without his being permuted either to know the nature of the evidence adduced aphait him, and of course without the power of refuting it? Having censidored Ness objections, Moss - Would be 'like this C,oriamittee, thus composed. and thus in quiring, as it were; in darkness, to record their ver dict? Putting him in Ag same situation in which her Majesty• Was before, What of hii earthly goods would lie not give to escape the garbled ekpositio of his character which would in consequence ensue? if the Committee should only turn out their Report, couched in the mildest, terms of affirmation which it was in the power of the Noble Lord' s oily rhetoric to framei—(Leughter}--so long as it 'only said Yes to the charge, that 'man's chancey Witold be fa es blasted. An appeal, it wii , 11" at i tat4 ICS M OO to open trial. DUI 4144 i q , so b 0 cowl- shved, that In the Interim the evicledee might be lost,' tl4s statement, that the Queen's cause mu s t haiie beta Abe iSilfidual might . safer greatly from aloes*, or a bad one, or he (Mr. Brougham) would sot helot ad le might die -stand Ins it nnt a consideration for a I vised her to accept the propoial. He certaialeiped man of honour that hi s memory might b‘hlighted, . counselled h er Maj esty ' s rejection of It With great . whilst he might not hate an opportunity to restore' paiu, because he had hoped to have put an mill, to it? Sven it he did live, he .mutt go to trial with an the p resent quest i on b y an arrangement. lli might immeasurable wei g h t of prejudice against him. It add, t h at if ot h er propos i tions had been Made to her I was in vain to liken this Tribunal to a G r and Jury. Majesty, which, as a woman of heenur, she coml.' If Ministers thought her Majesty guilty on the Ite- hive accepted, and which it would not have beeusin [fort of the Commission, let them act upon that as- consistent with the h onour o f G overnment to h ave of- I ssuance I—(Cheers). He strongly deprecate.' the fired, nor wit!, j ust i ce ' far her to ac c ept , b e s h ou ld 1 course of Minister s on this occasion ; they wi s hed by ha ve counse ll e d h er to accept it; always giving the the appointme nt o f t h e Committee to screen them- preference to an lioness:able private arrangement over selves behind nam es b etter t h a n t h e i r own—to seek all others whatsoever. Who should presume to say shelter from th e public gaze — to cover themselves where the inquiry WAS to sto p w h en once gon e into ? up from the p u bli c eye ! B ut t h ey had of their own Tho'se who coenselled ih s Crown upon this occasion, if responsibility come down to the House with this they did not know, ou,slit to know, th a t a certa i n li ne Message, and t h ey oug h t to f ace i t as men, and as once passed, everything must be told—not merely all Ministers should do! By going into an inquiry how the Illustrious Personage had been treated by in the manner of a Secret Committee, no one could' foreign Powers, and British Ministers at foreign know that this inquiry was in fact going on; the very Courts--but all the private anecdotes and transac etistence of it even could not be known. He would dons of certain Illustrious Personages would be in just as lieve take the opinion of Ministers as of such a volved, and must be disclosed and laid open to the Committeeswith this singledistinction, that the verdict public eye !—(Herr).—ln that case, we might be of the one would leave no stain upon the character of exposed to see such another Session as occurred this unfortunate personage, whilst the other would eleven years ago, when all interest in the• ordinary undoubtedly leave a very deep one—(Hear, hear), topics of . gossip or of politics was completely swal- This was the broad ground on which he viewed the lowed up in the subject which then engrossed all attend question. He wished every one to consider whether don, the private transactions of one most Illustrious he would like, not Ms whole character, but even any Individual—{Haar, heard.—He must be a man of peculiarity of his character, to be judged.by such a miraculous sagacity, and he did not think the Noble Aribututl; and as he would a n swer f or hi mse lf, so h e L ord (Castlereagh) that man, who could furetel what might answer for the Queen. The elements and consequences might ensue from the conflicting ins • - whole formation of the tribunal constituted, in his terests of the two parties, after this question were mind, an unpardonable objection. With regard to once entered upon. He maintained that be Must be the precedents, he must confess he was astonished to a bold man who would heedlessly plunge the NAP. basal them mentioned as deserving any weight. The try into an inquiry of this kind, if there was a pos,si.• practice of proceeding by green bags be wa,s aware bility of putting estop to it--:(Cheersfroar both rider). had before been resorted to, in cases of High Tree- He most earnestly entreated the House, for the sake .. son and Seditious Bills ; but he might say, that from of all the parties, for the sake of people,the. for the his peculiar way of thi n ki ng on t h at su bj ect , h e d i d sake of their wives and daughters —(fka r , Hear). not think the better of this proceeding on account - of that we might not again be placed in such a state, the precederks afforded in those cases. But throw- that it was impossible to take up a newspaper which ing those out of view, he came-to the precedents of did not contain something dangerous to morality. In Bishop Atterbury and Sir Thomas Rumbold. The the name of HEAVDS, he implored them to wait for charge against the latter person came, to be sure, a little, to see if it were not possible to do something . out of Secret Committee, but then it was to be re- to put an end to this matter (Cheers). He was bound membered that it arose incidentally —the Secret .to obey the commands of the Queen, whit; were Committee sat upon subjects connected with East peremptory, to challenge this inquiry; yet, he would India affairs, and the subject of the charge came Even venture to thWart her wishes, if it appeared so ' out unexpectedly ; and then the whole matter was him that there was yet any read open to negotiation. finally investigated at the Bar of the House, and He was convinced, that if the inquiry were to be witnesses regularly examined—( Hear, . hear! ),— gone into, it would not he of that short duration - He did not know what any accused person could anticipated by the Noble Lord. The Queen in ,wish better than this. Then, with respect to the case common justice, must be allowed to send HER green - 'of Bishop Atterbury, there was also this striking clif- bag down to the same Committee—(Hear, hear 1) ferance, that there the Committee had the power to She must be allowed to bring witnesses to refute examine witnesses.—[Lord CAsu.sanaun here inti- those brought against her—rand as she would, pros mated that the present Committee'would also have bably, have to go to Milan to find them, the time -the power of examining witnesses.]—Well then, it must be greatly lengthened; /or though the Milan appeared they were to be allowed to examine wit- Board had sat for ten months, to find matter of ac nesse:, in the absence of the party accused, without cesation, which might not require ten days to lalOw her Majesty knowing anything of them, who they i nto t h e a i r , yet i t wou ld b e necessary to inquire into were, or the nature of their testimony, and in the the character, spanner of life, etc. of witnesses, One-of . elbsence of her Majesty's profession-al advisers. He the principal witnesses to be brought forward . ainst ..,..:- would now come to the observations of the Noble the Queen, was a servant who was discharg froin Lend with respect to the proposal made by Govern- her Majesty's Household for the crime of l'e ny-.4 - , ibelit to the Illustrious Personage in question. The (Hear, hear)...and the peasant who was the wi tne s s Noble Lord's arguments were co r re c t in a cons ti tu - o f i t was at t hi s moment in the interior of tlitcolius . tional point of view, as t o th e r i g h t o f Government try, which was one of the numerous little ricsicren it• - to make that offer, doing it merely under the expec- which must occur to create delay in proseenting-ak tuition that Parliament would afterwards sanction it. inquiry of this nature. He who thought less the : : Whether the offer was to be viewed in thelight of a eight months would• terminate the affair, deciltest ': 'bribe or not, was not the question. The offensive himself egregiously. And eyen if icelesOnnly Ann:, part of the proposal was, that £50,000 should be he entreated them to spare the country the sostOsir. - given to her, not only on condition that she should the agitation, and vexation, that most result even for live out of the country, which was in itself- a most that time. The Hon.'Gentleman remarked with great *exceptionable proposition, but what appeared to him warmth on-the indignities to which her Majesty hail infinitely worse, notwithstanding the special pleading be en su bj ecte d a b roa d , b y the behaviour of Foreign pf the Noble L ord,: that a renunciation of title was Ministers and creatures, who thought it woulaget nut a renunciation of rights—(Hear, hear, hear). favour with the British Government to offer her not —But this part of the proposal he looked upon worthy wrongs. He instanced the withdrawing the m. neither more nor less than calling upon the body-guard from the Queen by the Government of Queen to say, that if she was not guilty, she was Ronl, as soon al it became known to the rope and at least not altogether innocent—(Hear, hear, hear). Cardinals that her name had been left out of the -Li ne Noble Lord said, the Queen could r.ot be called turn 'after praying for her (hiving seventeen years, 'upon to renounce her regal rights, as it was not in There were two instances which he wished to point her power to do so without the consent of Parliament, out respecting the conduct of Haneverian Ministers This, in point of fact, was the case ; but why -then towards her Majesty while in Italy. The Baron should she be called on to give up the exercise of Omptedit, who was on his way to Rome as nano. ' 'them. She was to renounce the title and style of Tynan Minister('was most graciously received by her Queen ; which, said the Noble Lord, was doing no Majesise. He insinuated himself into her boose.he more than wasp rdinarily dot* by persons of rank p ar took l arge ly o f h er h osp i ta li ty f or several mos s , when travellinabroad, who usually went under Noottwithstanding this atteption and kindness,- this assumed names. But, he believed, it would be found, ifoarairatd9 Baron wits detected not 004 in, spying that where a Royal Personage concealed their real into the conduct of her Majesty, eat only inbribing ' name and rank under a feigned name, it was always and corrupti ng her servants to give him information, the name of One of the branche s Of the same family ; but in having hired a blacksmith to make a key to and' it was well known, at any rate, that this was open her private desk in order to investigate her done solely with a view to the convenience of the papers! !—(Loud cries of Hear,. heir, hear!)--for. party, and was only done pro tearpore. One express .tunately. however, those papers so taken 'hewed this condition in - the proposal to her Majesty was, that Gentleman was on the wrong scent, as in feet they . 'the should not only abandon bee own title, but proved her innocence instead of her guilt h—(ficai).-- that she should not take that of any other branch A young Gentle Mas, a lieutenant In 'the Navy, then •ef the family. Observe 'again the difference be- about her Majesty's person, feeling for. the &meek tween a person of fortune doing this as a matter of his Hoyt!) Mistress, challenged the. ArfoorwaGla Of convenience, and for a season only, and of a Baron t the bluer, however, retreated to Mihua, iihere person taking such a step for the sake of getting he took up so secret a position, as to be with itUfficialty ,E 50,000, and adopting it for ever—( Hear, hear).— found out. Driven from this retreat, he made a back- Such had been the proposition made to her Majesty : ward movement, and hid himself in the mossetains ; 'strongly impressed as he was with the absolute neces- here again he was followed by the gallant Lieutiment, shy of some amicable settlement being come to, he whose generous ardour surmounted all Ob§tlielOS P S had felt himself under the-painful nece s sity of a d v i s - w : i il e an engagement was d a il y expected, the Baron ing her Majesty not to accede to the terms proposed Ompteda was kicked out of the Austrian tertiteeies ttO her. The Honourable and Learned Gentleman Ikea complained of the injury which had been done .both to himself and his illustrious client, by the-erro neous statements which had got into the Daily Papers of the part he performed in the negociatien at Saint .Otter's. He would only state one specimen, and leave the hisiuse to judge of its injurious effects. In, one of the Daily Prints it had been stated, that after her Majesty had expressed 'her indignation at the proposition made to her, he (Mr. Brougham) courts sealed her Majesty not to accept the proposal. If word after were to be erased, and the word before pus in its place , the case would be rightly stated. lie had, anticipated her Majesty in counselling her sties:dim e ! Who was, however extremely ready to express h er _ia-, ligu a si ms . The !loyal Personage in question had Mace eonfira4 the truth of the statement he Awl Made,,. Hp Willtjhe more reason to complain of.tb .. I , as in ;silk , : Pablic Journal (lie-Afornig Pol. . taken - with the nentes'of Lord Hutchi nso n n i x ) .bad-been repellant, meta- mbst•unwenrain a me:l6) itiiiiseif • inefaiuth sCin'avgntneint was .bulk epee .. . t not, be it observed, for having a c ted a % a .....-- ap ' - 4 iiifoo the Queen, not for the crime of 4 lavink_ ~ 14'. . • liii* Majesty's private - papers—but fOr having. r 4 wi l l* eji fight a duel, when openly called Cu .",tliat pip. pose-.{Hear, hear, hear).—This minal4diOted that basely in' order to pax' court to his eMplikter,...:. The Hanoverian Minister,. Ilecling, went farthenAe would not recognize her either as Queen ofEigland or , princess of Wales ; hi Sometimes called her VirO, -line of Brunswick, a title which her Majesty' bciri.be fore her marriage, and. sometimes, "'O. : aro:int of goglaskir a title which her Majesty never did,.*and never WWII bear. Ja.,facr,. be would tall ber :MI thingtrathar than Queen of England ; and tiai -L • : lisp hit:lilies whO tnifea in his society*aiera...... ; - 7.: beg; . thesappollanoiio iiiiiiid' to 'ihe . A 7 ,. ~.:iw Eitgiod, This wasdooe for 0 41 it _trim? : ;•s i spurt to his presi!nt'l4 . 4jesty,.. ifrj)?*,!!'l,/`;. z. '..1 ling: of a rnnce , a. gentlf 4o 4s i ztddli 2. ,,, Okir,. .0 ' receive. , ,air . iiii;;7 ,4, e; ,4,• which cast an insult a_pOillii. 1,40 : ; l ., Th e 1-140ourab). and.Learited ... .. f , . - I