Star. — London, England, 1813-06-19 00:00:00

N V .7f:L wards us, that indeed would ben disclosure excee dingly prejudicial to Ministers themselves; but that could not by any means he considered hurtful to Den-1 mark, inasmuch as her views had been sufficiently explained to Fiance by sending an Envoy to the country, and introduciti7 a military force int.O . Ham. hark. The fact was, that if there was any reason for eonce,alment, it was; because disclosure would shew that a robbery was to have been committed on one Power, which was to be' cortipensated for by a further rubbery of others—(Rear; hear:) The coun tries which - Were to have snffered'tlie - projecred spoi lad= had perhaps been designated. Perhaps the Hanse Towns were to have been the prey. [Here a negative was given in a low tone of voice, by some Peer on the Ministerial side of the House.] He was hlad to hear that was not the case—he was glad to ear that people who had taken up arms with so much spirit and vigour to rescue their country from a foe were not to find that they had purchased with' their blood only the privilege of being sacrificed by treacherous friends. Brit what a principle of disu nion would result from the knowledge that some country was to fall a satrifice ! Would not every country in the vicinage of Denmark apprehend that she would be the subject of the intended spoliation ? Was it the Duchy of Bremen ? Was it the country between the Elbe and Weser ? Was it the Duchy of Vagdebitrg ? Whatevetitwight be the ill-fated coun try, Ministers were called upon to shew that the prin ciple was honourable—(Hear, luar.) This, indeed, he believed they could not shew, but they ought to *hew the extent and nature of the sacrifice. The No ble Lord then concluded with moving— . " That an humble Address be presented to his Royal High ness tl c Prince Regent, praying that there be laid before the copies of all the communications which had taken place 'between the Government of this country and that of Denmark, `Within the present year." • Lord LIVERPOOL said, that the Treaty between this country and Sweden had been substantially con cluded before any formal overture had been received from Denmark, and resisted the motion on the grot .arnd that the House had before them sufficient weans of judging whether the Treaty was wise and provident or the reverse. Atter a few observations from Lord GRENVILLE, the House divided— Contents • - • • .b t 7 Non-c'•ntents - - 61 blajority against the Motion —24 TREATY WITH SWEDEN. On the readmitsinn of strangers below the Bar, the Earl of LIVERPOOL was addressing their Lord ships on the subject of the Swedish Treaty, pursuant his notice on a former evening. In calling the at tention of their Lordships to the moti'•n with which he meant to conclude as well as to the measure to which it referred, he felt it necessary to premise that they could form no correct judgment upon the me rits of the Treaty, without considering its stipula tions in relation to the state of Europe, not alone at the present moment, but when the Treaty was con. eluded. If it were considered in that view, he was satisfied that it w. aild be regarded as founded in sound policy and strict justice--he was satisfied that it would be looked upon as calculated to promote the best interests of this country—andthat it would-prove to have been concluded upon those principles which alone could afford hopes of the ultimate salvation cf Europe. In coming to the consideration of the Treaty between this country - and Sweden and that between Russia and that country, it would be necessary for !him to• begin by calling. the attention of their Lord ' ships to what were the antecedent engagements which had been fnrmed,. and to what had been the state of !Europe previous to the conclusion of either of these Treaties daring the winter and spring of last year.— : He would ask any one of their Lordships what had 'been hi. sentiments at that period ? What had been ,the exertions cf France in her gigantic preparations .against Russia ? Great as had been the preparations of France for the humiliation of Austria, of Prussia, 'and of Russia herself, in former wars, they were as 'nothing compered with the. exertions made during the last year for the subjugation of that empire. Prepa t/aims had been in progress for that object nearly three years, .and the army which was led against "Russia, including the contingents of her allies, wasnot less than belt a million in number, exclusive of a Ca yvalre force of 60,000, ail the choicest troops, and in the highest state of discipline and equipment -that had ever been brought into the field. Wheth?r the length find magnitude of the preparationsthen be considered, or the description and quality of the troops employed, he must ohserve, that so formidable a combination of tineens ant! power had never behire been provided to pct .against the independence and e%istettoe of any empire: Whit, he amid ask, had been the opinion 1 ci even tl-,e most :,anguine as to the result of the con test ? Was-thete one man in one htntelted that did hot think that Russia w..irld sink under the unequal eonflict i Had not the Noble Earl himself (Grey) declared, that ..11 that had since occurted had' excee ded all.exeectatien ? Tit' se V , 11 n considered the sub ject even with teference ao - the inform:loon supplied through the ordinary channels, must be sensible that two events parr itaihirly had conteihated to this happy keeult, by prometi:;g the immediate secnrity and ul timate seise:trail of Reesiiii iThe first of these events 'as the prate w th Turkey—the net the treaty with weuen.- . Th.: farmer event had not been effected ili late. in the yeer,- but the pacification stiff took itace in time to he -of elscntial benefit to Russia in the•pregreseof the campaign... With respect to the treaty with Sweden, it was well known, and if.it had nth eerr well known world have been fully believed that France 'had made *very eifoit and offer to attach that pewee to her,conse. , This ...as. done in the first instance by intimidation, in the-seizure_of Pomerania, i find that•measure was soon followed by an offer of I the restoration of Finland if Sweden would co-operate iiifth France against leessia. These proposals were put-trade elitectle, .IaTA through the agents of a nett- I term Power ;ail that fact, however, there could he no ..I(idbt-t. At that 'period, it was hoped that Russia wield act a wise and politic part, by restoring Fin atitt-An secure-. the co-operation of Sweden. But hough there Are diflerences.ol opiiiien amongst the InteiestiStateSman. as to the value of all the other aeteatiiitiooss.f kiissia during. the last twenty years, slierli..aelaut.rand'ae to tha; imp( rtance of Frill:tad to tleiirearrity of the Ruseian eapit-ato Under these de. teeestantes, the Genera/Dent of.Steeden was placed id •s, peculiar :ai mation s r and. in . uniting itself with ttrietivagaktst FFaacni tould have been actuated by 4 . • a • t•,,, • no other motive than a wish to , her confirmed rejection of all the tempta national honour and independence. by Bonaparte, and to he; hnittlit made period, before any treaty betweer ise with Russia, that in a great measure Sweden s had been proposed, the; ;he imp6rtant advaritages gained in the Sweden and Russia was 'cone], 1. It-was due to thihiptersts of Europe 1 made count:an Cause against le to the Treaty s hire' the first object of • view to the security of Sweden, lovernmeint waoto provide that tlse first.' Norway should be in the Erst insta luld be made on -the Continents. Den- Sweden, and that afterwards . a di' had aliently matesl a in.all:thedanger and. joint force should be made on the . Anti,- . So id aka circumstances of the campaign, had , this treaty Great Britain was invited to accede. rts nberoacte any Manifestation of a wish, to :shake off. the , forming a judgment upon these engagements, three yoke of France and join in the cause of Europe.— considerations fiaturally present tin mselies—First; Her whole means; on' the ecintrahy's • siere melted whether Russia and Sweden were morally justifiable down into the power of France. In September, when forming those engagements ? iecOndly, -whither in the enemy was marching upon Moscow, the Danish they .were or were net justifiable in so doing, would Government, upon occasion of a propos, :on "t• ' f rom ion 'to stand or the Russian Minister, avowed its intent Great Britain have been justified in acceding to the . as there was a probability Treaty ? and, thirdly, were these engagement favdu- fall with France. As lon g cable or unfavourable to the interests of this country? of the success of France, Denmark was staunch to He was prepared distinctly to contend that Russia that Power. Under such circumstances were we to i forego the co-operation of a Power willing to make and Sweden were perfectly justifiable in the Treaty ! common cause against France, for the sake i f ten , they had concluded ; and this opinion he rested upon ! a point which the Noble Earl had kept clear of alto- • derness to a Power that was our enemy, and coati gether—that Denmark was leagued at the time in to rmed do every thing to injure us ? There would be neither sense nor policy in •suc'h a course ; and it confederacy and co=operation with France against w Russia ; not by any ancient treaty, nor by previous would be fatuity and. insanity not to have secured ' stioulations which she could refuse to perform, with- Sweden. It was true that alter the evacuation of eat a violation of her public faith, but by engage- Moscow a proposition of a pacific nature had been ments entered into at the time, and made in content- made by the Danish Minister, but was afterward s plation of the then meditated attack upon Russia.— disavowed by his Government. The proposition s Denmark had agreed to place a certain corps of was made when it wa thought that the French troops at the disposal of France, to be employed in Ruler could not extricate himself, but it was dis avowed when it was found that he escaped. . The the occupation of Mecklenburg!' and other places in the North of Germany. Would any one tell him, offer which had subsequently been made he had that such a disposition of Danish troops was not as no doubt had been made in the confidence that i t w effectual an aid to France as if they had been would be rejected. Even when Count Bernstorif marched on to Smolensko,and Moscow? If the ter- ' had come on a mission to this country, there w a s sonic doubt as to the issue of operations, and the two ritories of Powers in alliance with Russia, amongst great baitles which had since b e en fought slimed others Oldenburg, which was the primary cause of the war, were to be forcibly taken possession of by how well founded these doubts were. Denmark, by the Danish troops, would any man tell him that this sending a Minister hither at such a time, wi s hed was not to take part with France against Russia ? 'n° doubt to keep the door of accommtidation with both parties open. But the ' • If that were not so, what security would there be for propositions Made at t the safety of any country, or the independence of that period were such as no man in that House, o r in that country, would* have advised any Govern set up as an excuse so far as one belligerent was con. Europe ? If the weakness of any Power were 'to be relent to accede to. (Hear, hear.) lie came no w cereed, it should be equally available towards the to the last proposition, as to 'the conduct of the Swe others. But the fact, be contended, was, that Den- dish Government in the execution of the treaty, and mark was following the steps of 'France—aiding, the interest this country had in the performance of abetting, assisting, and supporting her in the ire- these engagements. Upon this point he could assure their Lordships, that no Government had s 'ever made mendous contest against Russia ; upon principles of more zealous exertions for the fulfilment of •ts engage was equally justifiable now as at the time of its being mesa! justice, therefore, he contended that the treaty ments than had been made by that of Sweden. .The concluded. It was, besides, wise, expedient, and po . , preparations were expedited with all diligence, a' nd the troops ready to embark in 'due time. The first lick. This . country was at the time at war with Den. mark ; and whatever may have been the cause of i division of transports left this country'on the 31st of . March, and the secood arrived at Gottenburgh on ' quarrel, he must presume, the country beino engaged the Bth of •May. But from' the unfortUnate revalence ' in it, that the war was just. Danish seamen were at l contrary w i n d s d ur i ng the time seiving in the navy of France ; the Danes o f !five 'weeks, these transports were at that time annoying British trade in every pos. were prevented from reaching their' destination.— sible manner. Were not the Danish ports hostile to ; Every Officer employed on this service knew, that all time the Swe dish troops were to emark..... us ? and were not our merchantmen captured perpe_ this had As to what had been said of the rea Ba ndon b ment ti tually by Danish privateers ? This countr7 ! Hamburgh, however important the trade and lode: therefore as just a right to conquer Norway as to capture St. Croix, or any other possession of the Da.l pendence of that city, it was perfectly clear that it nish Crown. Besides, on the other hand, it should ! must have depended on the contest between the Grand be remembered that Sweden had not been a arty 1 Armies. But whatever may be thought of what had to the arrangements of the Treaty of Tilsit, an d had ; been hitherto done, the Swedish army was now in actuall situation where it can operate with eff e ct in any event; her refusal y pr to accede to them, in the cause of whichovoked a war with Russia and France b y 1 , —As to the cession of the Island of Guadeloupe, the she had lost Finland. Their Lordships knew that i Noble Lords opposite knew well that the cession of an i an expedition had sailed from this country under the : sland in the West Indies, under such circumstances,' late Sir J. Moore, to assist Sweden in the conquest of ! was not an original idea with the present Admini. ; Norway, as a compensation for the loss of Finland. stration, and the grant of-this particular island was He would not say any thing of the revolutions which least objectionable. In order to protect our own co had since taken place in Sweden, or of the nominal ! : lonics, the produce of the conque r ed colonies had, during the present war, been prohibited ; the cession war in which she had been engaged with this country. would, therefore, be an advant a g e t o the c o lonyo-- Though that war had never been more than nominal, , But besides, the establishment of rights of entrepot in it could not, he would allow,• be contended, that it ' Swedish ports for British goods for twenty years, was had not released Great Britain from her former en- , an adequate equivalent for any sacrifice we made. gagement. But regard should be had, in the con , An article had, besides, been introduced, prohibiting scanty of her attachment to this country, though in the continuance of the Slave Trade. The establish the maintenance of her own rights and independence, ment of an enirejtot for the commerce of Europe, how./ she incurred a loss, which gave her a claim in justice i ever, was the main equivalent, and gave a death upon the good offices and support of this country. — blow to the Continental System of France.—With He next came to consider whether the Treaty was 1 res Oct to propositions for Peace, Ministers would at not expedient, wise, and politic, as against Demark. all times be ready to receive them. He had begun by Any in any kind of view that could he taken of the ; ! calling the attention of their Lordshies to the state of subject, the arrangement respecting Norway was su- Europe, and the preparations and prospects of France bordinate in importance perhaps to the liberation of , last year. They would feel, he was sure, that the the Peninsula, but no other object was more deserving fate of Europe depended on the fate of Russia. Let of attention. . The great mass of its population was then, look to what Russia had done—he did maritime—its produce consisted chiefly of naval stores ! them, not mean to say in accomplishing the sanguine ex -the number and convenience of its harbours af- pectations which may have been entertained, nor did forded ample accommodation to privateers—in short, lie allude to certain recut[ events vrAch were a source in. every point of view it was most deserving of at of regret—but lie c ailed upon their Lordships to look tsntion. It was the interest of this'country that NT at the hada.; endence of Russia vindicated by the mug. way should belong to the' country that cottllidebewmoir:lsdt • nalAmity of its Government and people, and esta independent of France. (Hear, /wan) . • 14 s!it.,, 0-; a haSif WiliCll slo !tame effort of France join issue upon this point. There Might' bedifTerencts (mulct p :•ibly shake. This Northerr. Power had over as to the r.iode of reducing the power of Bonaparte throes is the .e, frestest force that had ever been brought —as to how fa-.this country should carry its e f f orts . for that purpose, but there was but one opinion as to 114° the h 1 A re-action was to have been expect. the expediency of detaching as many countries as ed i b u t the battle upon the Elbe shewed that the s possible from the connexion with France. Holstein, spirit of Europe had been roused. The course which the German territory of Denmark; would );.cep her this country had to pursue was, to support those who subservient to France, until she could bring herself made conimon cause against the enemy, and those , to sacrifice her German dominions for her insular in- ' Powers that were prepated to resist his violence should 1 be nraintained at the expellee of those who concurred dependence.. Norway, of course, whilst subjeet to 1 and co-operated in it.— Ch Noble Earl, after again Denmark, -would he equally subservient to France.! The ;contrary would be the case, if it were united to alluding to the effect of the "last campaign in f throwing die Continental System, which had been over- Sweden.' This was the opinion of the Swedish Go: ' vernment. The conduct of Denmark last year shewed ; growing up for seven years (since the Treaty of Til sit), by moving ress to hal that her value for her German , dominions made her 1 High concluded ness the Prince Regent, an than Add king him is f ßoy or the dependent on France; 'Ms thir they considered the i gracious communication of the Treaty, and assuring hituation in which Russia, therefore, or Sweden, or ' this csuritty stood, with regard to Denmark, the treaty 1 him of the support of their Lordships. was peitectly Sustifiablo in itself, and the British Go-' The question having been put, vernment were completely warranted in acceding to Lind HOLLAND rose to reply to the Noble Earl who had just sat down, but felt many diff i c u l t i es as its arrangements. , The duty of the British . Govern- : ' ment last year was to see that the diversions to be I to the course he should take on the occasion. He made 'should be in Germany.. They declined acceding felt a difficulty in answering the speech of t h e N o bl e to tie Trea which would render it effectual then, till that diversion could be made 1 Earl' because, from what he could collect f r o m w h at under circu mstances had fallen from that Noble Lord, he fea r ed th a t th e y in the scale of operations. He must insist, however, annexed different meanings to t h e same wor d s .—. When the Noble Lord talked of j us e ce , th e p r i nc ipl es etat the tneastnes adopted by Sweden last year, had just f ioe,ond the in dee of E mean had a considerable influence upon the campaign. o ing apparently attache p d e t o e them was uro di pe, the fferent from The force assembled in Swedish ports kept a ;conai. that in which he should use the sam e terms . H e f e l t derable enemy's force in the noeth of Germany, and also another difficulty 'in answering the Noble Ea r l, by releasing Russia from its previous engagements, the.Swedist; Government .set at liberty a force of ; t h oug h he should not complim en t h im by saying that any difficulty in answering his argume n t s , eighteen thousand men which was assembled in. Po. I there was land, and which was sent to join Count. Wittgens or refuting the logic wi t h w hi c h t h e y were en f orce d ; stein's army, and afterwards contributed so materoiSl but there' s; was a difficulty g ro wi n g ou t o f .t h e nature to the destruction of the French army on the Bere y of theallobleLord'S assertions , which he w ou ld own sina. It was to the conduct of Sweden. in ibis in- P res *. 11011 his Wind. Wi le N°l4* lard created .. •1: ..• S.. .a ... .. •• t.. this difficulty when - he contended before their ships, that this country had derived an acleant*. : from the Treaty. Was not the first question in di.; case, whether they were to sanction an act of flagrant injustice—whether they should sacrifice the houour ut tha nation and the glory of the Crown—whether they esould abandon tliat priacinle for which they had bee a 9.0 years contending ?He cou'id 's t ing hirn st ag ua 'consent to any such •proceedtg —no; not the alike of Russia, nor even the eloquence and arguments the Noble Lord, should ever induce hint to sacrifice his fair fame an] the high character of the Britit It na tion in such a manner. It was neceilary.for him to follow the Noble t arl threugh the wholeOf his speed.. ' He must observe, however, that•in -statingthe tetra;; Of the treaty, and the cessions 'seder it, the Nob!, Earl had somehow overlooked the million of money which was to be givers to Sweden.—(B rier, hear.)—The Noble Lord dealt nut millions bberali,, and might, there fine, have thought this circumstance not worth notice. But lie should go throngte stipulations 44 the treaty, and as iihout stopi.ing to inquire into the policy upon which they were founded. This country, in the tirt 4 t h•ce, engaged to cede Guadaloupe in perpetuity to Sweden—we next en. gaged to assist Sweden in despoiling Denmark of Nor. way, and to guarantee that kingdom in perpetuity to Swedee—we also' engaged to give a million of FAT lish money annually to S avelen—and in the 7th at fele we. engage not to make any pence with common enemy, while ut reference to these engagements.— These were the considerations to be given by this country. On the other hand, Sweden engaged is do in the fist instance, what she was alreadrobliged to doi—to furnish quota of hO,OOO troops fora di version in Germany—she also engages to grant Eng land a right of entrefrot at Callsham, Gottenburgh, and Stralsund. He should not here adopt the prin ciple of argument of the Noble Loud, by saying, it she should be fortunate enough to hold Stralsuna....- The Noble Lord had argued that 'No: way and Hol stein being possessed by the same Sovereign was in. compatible with his independence with respect to France, and yet he did not appear to consider the continental possessions of Sweden an instrument of dependance on that ?over. Bu‘ whilst Great Britain was to :ede Guadaloope an 4 to guarantee Norway to Sweden in perpetuity, it was curious to see the tight of cntrepot secured only for twenty years, / These were the terms of the Treaty. He did not mean to argue that they were objectionable merely ,•te'cause they .were tfo eminextly advantageous to Sweden. He would readily admit that there might be occasions when'the terms of a treaty might be in finitely more advantageous.to one orate contracting parties than to the other, and yes very eligible to be concluded. The King of Sweden, however, M this instrument engages lb do that which lie Was' already pledged to dO, and in encoring into this treaty Ries over a second time what t he had before undertaken. I The necessity ot referring to the treaty ot last year w.is Obvious, and yet it was Impossible not to observe Ithe siudied endeavour with which' the Noble Lords oppOsite:sotkght to keep k out of sight. *lt was fresh in their Lordships' recollection,' that if it had not bees ftir the motion of a Node Friend near' him, the • would not have•had the:meagre abstract which had `been :fit length • laid upon their tab*. • But to come to the speech ()film Noble Earl. That Noble Lord • had gone back to the eatly part of last yeir, 'and at: tributed all the success of • the campaign to - what he coritplaisantly tettned the co.operatioo of Sweden.-= What was the 'question before theHonse ? This: Noble Lord contended that this treaty should not be, considered as an insulated question - but with refer. ence to the general 'state' of Eurripe at the time—td the principles of general poliCy 'upon which it writ founded, and to the antecedent state of Eoropett the time of the conclusion 'of the anterior Treaty. ale agreed in all this ; but what did it amonatto ? at gument of necessity, and he should not . besitate49 admit, that there might be occasions when divatees• . sity of the ease and the principle of self-PreserVatiott would justify an act in itself indefensible.' • qui•pose then that Russia felt this necessity of signing the an terior Treat)', the circumstance Would be a little jos. tification ; for whatever abhorrence be had, as he had expressed, of injustice, be wou:d a t deny the plea of necessity. But granting all this respect;ng Russia.; where was the necessity for England th sign the Treaty, and thus make herself an accessary alter the fact ? Was she so chivalrous in disgrace, that she . must voluntarily court the dishonour -- that she must take off the shoulders of Russia, to place upon her own, a part of the load of infamy which such an in. principled act of spoliation was calculated to cast upon them. The Noble Lordaben proceedathrough the other. aopics in the speech of the Noble Earl, ant rnadverting with a similar spirit upon each ; and said, anxious as he was tor peace, he could not be content to purchase it at the sacrifice of national lionsur and justice. Ministers bad adopted the maxim of fighting the enemy ni,th his e),en weapons, and whatever had been urged on former occasions against the Ruler of France, there neves was exhibited by him so gross and gratuitous a display of the want of principle as was set forth by his Majesty's Government in their acceding to the terms of the Russian and Swedish Treaty. His Lords . atip concluded with•mtving,, That an humble Address be ?relented to Ids Royal Highs ness ill: Prince Regent, assuth l hi, Royal Highness, that they had tt. k: n into tot:sht- rat ien the Treaty of Concert and 6ubssily with Sweden, and that with deep regret they fe:t it the.r du.y to express the strongest ..i,approbarion„ ol !hi- principle of taking Islurway from Deianark ;.that ttn s 'ilitarp'rphation was still far ther ii,creased by offerEg cettain.diltrtets itf•Gernrat.y to Den• mark, user which we bad no edtitrotil 9 r ata hority. Ne const• dera , ion of advanta g e or Convemency Cou l d ct' ? hapensite a nation for a violatmn of its honour or justice ; tut .eett that consideraw dm they had nor, for is they gained awed, r, ttey necessarily lost the co-operation of Dolma, k and the,N9rth of ihrinany. !he cess on of Gt.velaioupe al-u they disl not feel prepared to approve, because they saw no advantage to is t i4ir a ived from it, and it was a circumstance that mi g ht throw obstacles in the way of a gee s. ral peace ; that they did to wish, however, to °owe the sub sidy, or to prevent Ropi Highness from ful6lbrig the ettpula• tioti: he had v.uught pro t er to enter into with' the Courant" l ark s." The Earl of HA R RO\VBY should not attempt to follow the Noble Baron through the • wide fi4cl of observations that he had communicated to the House. But before any conclusive opinion could properly be formed of the merits of the treaty, it would be right . to lune back to the situation of Europe at the time' and previous to the time at which it was en:ered It was natural to' Rosi.ia, then, to attach to Swede* an importance which, und , r tit! er circumstances, she could not be entitled to. France was offering to the . latter Power every possible temptation whiclk could . • ~7 . . maintain iliTiolats th• staste—to bet ~. . di t c a t ce. •It n , ' , • t d out en this . - t r . ~ , cans at the tiiiif . - . .-,' ,+ w , l . i ineing th laded, by'which, . !..,, llskilissPaign. France ; Vt.. .: ii . iheii to accede ,it was stipula . t t t the British Go nstance conquerea .r operation shnu a. diver sipo.ln_a corz-_lll'Artcs as he - !1 s the tontinem To t peril and critic