Star. — London, England, 1820-10-14 00:00:00

At , . .:i . • •g• • ". ..4 ; ~..• : r "*" " • 1 . •4. ••• :4' . •:". TN44 notrsr. & Lofts: Otionait is. _a; DEFEN'CZ-7ENTH . eceoSintt . ahlittir.mi AP first AIWA' 'of yesterday's &Ai.) Lord CAR.NARVON rose, anti raid -- " My-Lords, it is im possible to yroceectone step further in shisediests,projkottiond de :eatable measure, _without having•before i ns every particular relative * to this agency. - Untiiihe transactioas are unravelled, the characters of all those who had any concern in'the Commission; or were it its disposal, and under its' aethority, ire pracHcilly A discredit is fixed upon then's,. whlch is:of itself eidculated to destroy the case which hakbeen set up, wit.hout.reference , tta the evidence which has been brought forward in support of the hear). I cannot bring myself to think that yotir Lord ships would, after the establishment of that•which has been just stated at the Bar, think p( entertaining., for one hour Inure, a Bill which has been the greatest curse that has ever fallen upon this coun:ry !—(L.:;te.! cries (if . Hear, hear, hear!) If lam rtistaken in supposing so, I can say that we are • doing neither more ow less than signing the death warrant of the British Con stitution !—(Loud cries o Hear ! )—and .uni,lermining all the se curiti..s nisional justice, stability, and honour !—(1/ear, hear!) I cannot consider this nuestion as a minter of drl• law. It ap pears from the evidence. which, on one aide, is concluded, that three years have elapsed since any of the acts to which that evi dence refers were committed—a period of such length, that even if Treason hat: been :he crime allezed, it could not have beeu tried. It is not a case which interfered with the interests of any o.te, rot even, as far as I can see, with the. private interests of those who have entangled themsAves'in the proceeding and wished in entangle in it every interest is the country. They have brought odium or. the Government; they have excited a feeling which can never be excited withont tlan.,:einot, probably, immediate danger, but danger that never can be small, in a country where copular feeling must be the pillar and prop of all its institutions ! —(Hear, heard.- 7 -They have excited a feeling which is sapping the foundations of all that is valuable an 1 dear to us. Although I•may have hitherto abstaihed from calling on your Lordships to pot an end to this proem:din. under the impression that there might possibly be grounds which made the necessity for it impe rious, I can no longer be withheld from doing so, when, on the wholt• f ice of the case, as sheave in evidence, there is nothing whatever to warrant it, even as a measure of expediency.— And what stage for interference can be more proper than the rresent? If taus charge against the agents of the prosecution is substantiated, is there one of your Lordships who will not think that the greatest service you can do to the advocates of the Bill, to the party int'ert:ted hi it—if such party exists, though _where I. know not !—will be to rid them of the pressure of the millstone .which they have got round their necks, and which threatens to drag dory: not only them, but every thin g on which the hopes of the country are set?—(llecir, hear, hear !) However unusual it may be in ordinary cases to interfere in the roadst of a prosecution,. I. conceive that' every consideration of tsage pr ferns ought to give way in Apse like the present, the moment you have evidence before you of a system of suborna tiet of perjury on .he !raft of the prosecution ! I think that your Lordships arc b •. •.•! to receive evidence of that suborna tion, and that being et.tablished, you will not- do justice if you do not instantly throw out the Bill 1"—(114 Lordship c:tedmt amidst !mad charsfrona all parts of the The Earl. of DONOUGHMOItE said, that he had never heard st.ch . a speech• on such an occasion as that just deli vered by . hia..lsloble Friend. In the midst of a proceed ing, which no otie bad sat to investigate, except with the rioit • painful feelings, but which had not been proceeded in from other than motives of strong necessity ; and; when only a .part of the evidence bad been gone through, his Noble Friend had called on their Lordships to stop short, and throw, out the Bill ! Was ever such a thing heard of? He would not. tfauble" their Lotklships with entering into any argument on the st:bject. It was enough to mention the state in which matters were, to chew the.intulmitsibility- of the motion tiaade by his Noble Friend. The Earl of CARNARVON, in explanation, appealed to their Lordships whether he had made any such motion as that represented by his Noble Frienß, or, in fact, any motion at all? All he had said mad contended for was, that evidence having b en offered of a system of bribery, on the part of a person who was an agent of the Milan Coinniission, their Lord • ships onght• to suspend all other investigation till that act of , lariber, was enquired into; and if it was established, 'then, undoubtedly, tkat their Lordships should instantly put an end to the proceeding. His Noble Frieud had said that he had never heard of such a speech on suck an occasion. But "let him she w nie," said the Noble Earl, " in all the annals of history such an occasion, such a .proceeding as the present ! and I shall have rio .diffaciney in shew.ing a precedent for the course which I have felt it my duty to pursue." The LORD'CIIA NCELLOR said that perhaps their Lords. ships would be of • opinion, that the witness should now be re called. • • • The House consenting, the witness was recalled to the bar. I;Santitia:lOn by Mr. WILLIAMS resumed. At the time you are speaking of, had 'you any furthee con rarsation, about what Rastelli was doing as to witnesses? The witness enumerated various times and places where he had had repeated conversation' with Bastelll about witnesses. ItaAelli also told him, that he ha,l gone to the witness's c;untri about witnesses; that, he had asked persons whether thty were willing to depose against her Royal'lligtmess, and whether they would go to Milan with him ? That he had thus, one after another, taker: all the persons from the witness's part of the country to Milati; that he (Rastelli) had told the Keeper of the Inn of St. Clement, where they put up at Milan, to give them everything they wanted for yietuals ; that he had given to ail -his people money—to Raggazoni 50 francs, to Bruzzi. 'also 50 francs, to theoathers 40. Who: the moues , was me.ltioned, of which you have given an account, wa., anythig said about the expenses as contradistin grdshed from that money ?--Not for the expenses Itastelli told me that when he went into my country he went in a post-chaise and paid the expense*. • I)id he pay the expenses of these people?—There were many sent from my country, a nd they were all at the inn where he was. UK! Rastclli pay the rtses of the bin ?--:-He paid them the forty franca. Ile paid the expenses to the innkeeper, and they gut the forty francs clear. Cross-examined ty Me Soctctzoa.G L?LßA L. Whete . clid the witnesses go from to Milan?—From Cazzoni, my country, to Milan. - How many.miles did they travel altogether ?—Twenty-eight or thirty miles. Was it twenty-eight or thirty miles to go to Milan?—lt was. You'have said something about Raggazoni. Where did he go from ?—Rastelli came to my country and went so the inn, and then told llruzzi to fetch Raggazoni, who was four miles di stant. kit tour miles further than Cazzoni??—Nearer. And di‘l he go to Ca7zOni, in order for them all to go toge ther to ?lilan?-11e came With BrOzzi to Cazzonf, where they dept, and next morning they set out for Milan. Did Bruz4 live at Cazzoni?-.-Yes. The witness having answered ti-is question without its being 4nerpreted to him. The Sotectroa-Grautatt ached hint, have you learnt Ell -4,lish since yesterday?—No. You do UndertitlUd a little F.nzlish ?-I'so, but from the asso ,:iation of Bruzzi and Cazzoni, I judged what was the question. Was Bruzzi tent to 'fetch Ltavtelli?He Hoar long ware the witnesb,:a in going from Cazzoni to Dili ko?—.l day. . - And a day in returniog?—Some a day, tome a day and a half. They leturned as they wished. Bow fa: is the grotto at the Villa d'Esft froth one extremity of it to the other? Is it forty or fifty feet ?—I do not remember that. I have been in it every day, but I have not paid attention !O the number of feet. Do you believe it is 40 or 50 feet?—About )2 or 15 brascia. The Interpreter said the witness did not appear to understand :the question. • 1. ill you swear that the grotto was not mole thin 12 or 15 ,bra:cia?-1 cannot swear, because I did not measure it. Will you wear to the best of your recollection that"it b not • • 4 % • • . • . ^ ' * ? I ‘. . • • . • ?I l i. .. . . • • , •' . • . • ..0) . l • 41=•• • 14•" ' .0••• Z • . . . i- t ....., .? . .....: .. • •.:: it• • ••• t ' , _ '1..-- •, • 4 :4 4 - -... . 1 , ".141 . ~ < ' 4 le ... 7 .. %,,, . • • . . 1 " . - 1 0, 44 ,,„ t-5 •i - 0 iklk,A4 . - , = 1 I I ( ‘ •••. - • • • .4 i s lir v. : . - ) ..*1 dp. fi r N iiii. ~• • • 411re114 . A PI d&e.am , - s. ••• . - ..i. s lk Apr; ''' '• * .-.._ . t 1 r • N ...N • 'r.-. - •: ..... ..t. • • • t 7 ~.c . r .. .:„,., . ._ ... , , -, . : , :k . .. • —...—.... i.....-:....... . _LA. _f_A ',tan:: -r- , .:_ • • " OGTO:" ~ t 4 ! as .~ ~~ ' 7^. . t' • • , s4 ; • • .1. : . • , B ER, 14, 1820.): . PEIC SEVEN - PEN CX. 10 4 - ITD _ • • peal then twelve or fifteen brascia 4-The Witness peielied: the extremities of the House of L?rels, and said it was as long a from the Throne to the door. What were 'you paid for coming here?—Pay I have not received-, but I made my Calculation aboitt my business, and the time I should lose; and a Doctoror Advocate, whom Ge neral Pino had sent to me, wished me to make thiswriting,.be cause my 'family and children would not let me go. At Michael mas; the people-at Mitsui change their houses,• when there is much more: to do in my business, and . I was 'consequently obliged to .employ.another =Atm atteud my business in the coun.• try. I could not send my son, because.he attends my business at home, and pays the men. I could not undertake any. hasinets, for t did not know how long I should be absent. They told me I should be absent about twommonthe: Whenever I cannot take work at this time, I lose a whole year. They agreed to give inc for my year's loss 2100 francs. Are your expenses paid ? = Yes. • What was the name of the Advocate who made this agree ment ?—I do not hums his name.. . • • ! had a right to put questions relative to any part of her Royal I lighness!a coodort„ without being called. a Public Prosecutor. The LOAD CHANCELLOR said that- the right was quite clear, Lord DARNLFY admitted the riadit ; but in a case of so complei, an allemalcius; so estraorginkty a character as the pre sent, in which their Lordships wine both Judges, Jurors, Le, giglators, and Pr osecuiori, he thought it was peculiarly their duty to lean to the side. of the accused :„and he could not omit the opportunity of remarking, that there were some among their Lordships whcrappeared to him no; be acting as impartial Judges. ' —(Loud aim of Orlier, .rskr 1). • Lord DE ll 17 N ST AN V I LLE rose to order. Such personal altercations tvete most improper. • Lord DA'RNLEY•explatned, He did not accuse any paitl; eular individne ; be spoke genendly. He must still say that he had seen a disposition in the Hoof, contrary to wbut;Jea 'con ceived and felt tq be his duty.. ,•••• • • - Lord REDESDALE o b serve d, t h at some th in* bad r e d • which might, perhaps, excuse the ob ser i a t ion o f th e Noble rd ; but that certainly. it- was-as applicable to one side of its House defending of ifie right prOper, but v Atkorney t; have an violation • - - The Marquis - of LA NSDOWN admitted the explanation as far as concerned the Noble Lord and his colleagues, but it a certainly required the weight of the Noble Lord's character to de r fend him from the charge. The necessity of a defence from such a charge was one of the calamities attendant upon those proceedings —(Hear, hear, hear). But while the House would lacquit him of criminality, they w e r e b oun d to consider the egect of such' a circumstance as that of which therhad complained, upon the interests of the Queen. The agents of that Howe had betrayed the trust that was reposed in them ; and was it at all fitting. to visinthe consequences upon the Illustrious Lady? It had been an understanding that the witnesses should be all forthcoming, amongst other reaatms; for the purpose of giving satisfactory explanations, upon points of evidence; to the House. Had not that rule been found most useful in the • case of Ms jocchi—(Henr, hear, hear).—What Were the House to think when they found that so important an evidence as Rastel4 could not be produced before he could hive time and oppor tunity to prepare himself to meet a contradiction ? And all this because the people at Milan stouici not be satisfied with anything but bis presence to prove that thete was safety in visiting England ! As if Rastelli was the eertittrat of thesis: position of the country to treat witnesses with tiness—(4 laugh).—Thc House warbound to do all that pens; ly cou ld b e it i t done to repair the effect of such i emission= the interests of her' Majesty—(Hear, hear). • • , The LORD CHANCELLOR said, that he certainly comd dead, the measure extremely ill-jiniged,.if it arose from want of judgment; he-should grit no bar4her attar/44. but if it pro" ceeded'frorrt anikhing of si worse character, no-name could be .too bad for it. " I cannot deny that an atlowance most be' made-for the absence of the winless, to the Qbeen's cause, end I consider that those who support the Bill are , bound to bring him back. I consider tha t hi s examination u pon i future day cannot be so beneficial to the cause of the Queen as his exunie, pation It this moment would be. You are bound th en , m y Lords, to make a liberal and Jame' allowanCe. I think, indeed, - it is is;possibk to repair the injury altogether. But, good Goa I ha, . ..- to the Quells; as we it as to the Country, do not close these 'proceedings in this stage of them."—The Noble Lord concluded a speech, which be. delivered with great energy, by calling upon their Lordships to proceed with the evidence until the witness should return, and upon his return, to make a large allowance for the unfortunate circumstance that had Occurred. • Lord CARNARVON.—" I agree with the Noble Lord, that the injury is irreparable ; but I must add, and in doing so I speak the feelings of thousands, the only remedy is.to put an end to these proceedings--these abominable proceedings—altoge ther--(Losul cries eHear ; and other evident markt,' a powerful sensation in the House).—No man who wishes well to justice can wish otherwise(Hear, hair). The Queen's defence never can be restored to the position it now holds, and it therefore becomes us, if we are not determined to outrage all publiq feeling, all common sense, to disgrace the country- in which we hold so high a character, and to degrade even our charac ters, it becomes us to abandon this detestable Bill. Substantial justice never can be done in this House upon this subject; and if we proceed, we shall be subjected to the execration of all Englishmen, and the contempt of all mankind—(Hear, hear)-, A system of extensive subornation has been proved—(dfeie cries Et* No, no").—The witness who is accused of it has disappeared: - Those who conduct this prosecution are, I say, in fault ; and if this BM should pass to the other House, it is impossible that it should be entertained for a single moment, for it would excite agitations of the most dangerous character, disgrace the prose cutors, and overthrow the most glorious of institutions."—He concluded by moving, " That the House should actiourst to this' day as months !" . • • The LORD CHANCELLOR sa id be never could again enter that House with peace of mind if he had said that they i• could not do substantial justice.- On the contrary, he bad said,' that though they could. not put the Queen in exactly the same situation Us if Bastelli could now be produced, it might turn out so far,from being unfavourable to the individual in question, to. be in the highest degree favourable to the Queen. Lord lILLENBOROUGH said, it would be fital to her Majesty's reputation to close proceedings in this stage of them, - The Earl of CARN4 RVON said he should move, that a question should be proposed to her Majesty's Counsel, to know whether they could proceed with the Queen's defence in the absence of this evidence? • - • , , . Earl DARNLEY said, it should also be proposed to them, to say "whether they conceived any injury mould be done to their Client, If their Lordships stopped the proceedings at this moment?* Earl g REY said, that he never felt greater difficulty as to the course which it would be advisable for the Howe to follow than at the present moment. Helelt the same warmth of indignation ' es his Noble Friend had expressed at what had happened; fqr, notwithstanding the explanation of the Noble and Leatned Lord (the Lord Chancellor), he conceived that, in the situation in which they were placed, substantial justice could not be done, as, by the abduction of the witness at this moment, an injury bad been done to her Majesty's defence which •it was not pouf- ' ble altogether to repair. In 'ltch a situation, sub"eantial justice could not be done. He should be better satisfied if his Noble Friend (the Ball of Caraaryon) did not persevere in his motion, - but, if he did persevere, feeling as he did, that there was pQ pos t , aible remedy for the mischief of the act, if he were asked whe ther the proceedings on the Bill ought to be continued, he (Earl Grey) should be compelled, however reluctantly, to assent to . that protcfsition for putting an end to it at that moment. In the first place, as to the evidence which Rastelli might give -_ - there bad been. witnesses examined who dire ct ly contradic;e4 what he bad asserted. How very different then, might his tes timony be, if he could have been called up without knowing what, had happened, from what it mint assuredly would be here after, when he was made perfectly acquainted with all that had Taken place that day. His Noble Friend had saki, a little incur ' reedy, that extensive subornation -of perjury,was proved; but this he (Earl Grey) would say, that there wan a' Very strong suspicion that Rastelli was engaged in the trade of subornation, • The vtimeniat the bar had Ova an acconnt of this. rOCess *cry natural, and which he and others had suspected to haye taken place. The witness said that Rastelli had conveyed the promise to one permit, he; to a third, and so on. He had described exactly what seemed extremely probable to have happened, and which aeceented extremely well fbr the depesitions of those' irritnesaes as to the Admit and Eve, and other separate facts., If he, the suborner of those -witnesses could have been pro.. used immediately , that conspiracy might have been detected, and thus would have 'been .defeated completely, what (if it existed) was the foulest plot ever raised against the honour or life of an individual If that could-not be done satisfactoriir hereafter, he asked, whether they were not placed in a situation In winch substantial justice could not be done?-(Hear).—Audit wino one could'leny that they were in such a situation, If his Noble Friend pressed ids motion, he would necessarily have his (Earl Grey's) assent. Thus much as Sc what his Noble Friend proposed; bat, with respect to the fact itself, that Rastelli was withdrawn, •because his Majesty's Ministers a p pre h en d ed he would be c alled as a witness, there, was no reason to believe.— The Noble Earl * (Liverpool) had only done himself justice by saying, that'his charatter and general conduct would protect him from suspicion of being concerned in the act; but he could not agree with him In the gentle terms which he applied to it, ii that it was merely ill-judged." The persons who took upon themselves to do so, must have known, from their professional habit~, the necessity of keeping all the witnestes during the exa inflations ; but if ellen' there ryas a witness from whose exa mination in chief the necessity of keeping him here was ap.. parent, Rastelli was that witness. The Noble Lord (the Earl of -Liverpool) trusted that his. chasacter protected him. He gave the Noble Lard all the credit which his high character de parted; and 'vehei the pledge was given by the Noble Lord that all should be done which depended on him to keep the witnesses is a situation .to bp produced, the House also had given full credit to that assiwance. But when they found, after the Noble Lo&d had given that pledge, that there were persbet (lb* w, r e bound to Obey his 'instructions and to attend to its pledges, it they hid theileifi settee of duty) Mho had acted as' they had done, what siedSt i arsy lohger would be given to any piedge, : T o rn. i n direct defiance and contradiction of his promise, thesagent, had e a t out o f th e einotii a witness so nsatarial?—S Zinn* ,Page. . . u Does he live at Milan?—)es. Is it Palazzol—No. Was Vassali present at the time?-=-lle was not. Have you met Vassali on this business)—tes, at Milan. Did you, never see him before ?—I never saw him either be fore sr since. • • Where did you see General Pino?—At his house. lam his head mason. - . . Did you see General - Piny on this business before signing'the agreement ?—I have not seen him on4his business either before or after. I met Hata coming down the staircase at GI Pino's house, and he told me that if I chose to go to .V sho'jld be indemnified for my loss of time. Was this agreement made with General Pino. Did he agree to pay you ?-1 never saw General Pow about it. Who is to pay you the money for which you stipi,dated ? Vassa'. the Queen , • witnesses this new enquiry. it. prosecutors,... Lordship said he kn,w of none . but the House of Lords; aid it was one of the monstrous fea r tures attending this case, that their Lordships were prosecutors, Judges, and Jurors--(ffear,keard..--Thii anomalous proceeding placed their Lordships in all these characters. If, theg, the term " public prosecutors" Was found irksome, he could only say— " Pudet Aga opprobria Et dici /wham et non pinnate TON." The Earl of LAUDERDALE .said he spoke. strongly self, and he allowed others to speak as strongly; but through f l out his whole life he. had _never done anything but what in Lis conscience he believed to be right. • The Earl of DARN LEY explained. The LORD CHAECELLOR.--Ilave the Coilhsel on either side any further questions to put to the witness? Mr. Wituans.—We have, my Lord. Witness ealled in, and .erimined by Mr. Wittlasits.—He stated, that the pilasters io the grotto at the Villa d'Este were on the opposite side to the cornice. • That before the long journey, witness employed forty or fifty bricklayers, besides helpers ; and after die long journey, when he had made a contract, he em ployed from two to threo . hundred men.—.Esonsitiatiorsioncludsd. Mr. Brumossass wished to learn from the Attorney-General, whether Rastelli was accessible'or nut. In short, whether he was in the country of not; as he wished to call him, and put some questions to him. The Arrostizy-Gxsumai said the Learned Gentleman must first satisfy their Lordships of the necessity of calling him. Mr. Baouvian.—lf the Learned Attorney-General will in form me that liastelli is not in the cOuntry, I need not trouble their Lordships on the 'object.. When you made this agreement, were other witnesses pre sent making , agreements ?—No. Vassali was not present whets I was making this writing. He has nothing to do with it but to see I am paid. Is not Vassati to pay you ?—He is to pay me. You told us of a bill due to you from the Princess of Wales. Has that bill been paid ?—Yes, she has paid me that bill.. When was it paid?—l was paid part in. January, part In March, and the remainder in April, 1819. • Was the money paid to you after you had the interview with l Rastelli ? When I spoke to- itastelli; I was not paid the whole, I had received the part in January only. How long is it since the last payment was made by her Royal Highness ?—The end of Aptil or the beginning of May. In the present year?—No, in 1819. Will you swear, that besides that agreement for 2,100 francs, that you have entered into no engagements with other persons to receive other sums of money ?—I was to receive another sum of five or six francs a day for my family, but made no writing • for this. The LORD CHANCELLOR here found it necessary to tell the Interpreter, at the suggestion of Mr. Basortausit, that It was his duty to explain and not to argue. The witness continued—The agreement was made between my son and Ratti. had you, besides .the 2100 francs, any promise for yourself or your family, or had .you Any expectation?—l contend that my time will be considered during the period I am here. Am I to consider that, besides what you have received, Tou are also to be paid for your time?—The 2100 francs I received for the loss I may sakain for the time•to come: What are you to be paid for the.lou of your time daily?—As they told me that in a month and a half I might return to my .own - country, I believe I asked a golden Napoleon a day. They did not offer me this. • • The Atros:exir-Gaimait said that Rasielll had been sent to Milan, as a courier, with dispatches. As soul as he had learnt this fact, and anticipating it might be necessary again to call him, he (the Attorney-general) had sent another courier to bring him back, and he believed be might speedily be expected. • Mr. -llisououax.—ls it possible; that a person who has bees examined as a witness for the prosecution, has been sent out of country in the service of the Milan tomftauinn ? The ArcOaltirr-GINEItAL said, Mt. Brougham bad put quai l:ions to the kit witness, which he conceived he had-no-Akin put, in order to furnish ground for again calling Hanel& ' : • Mr. BlOUpliast.—My Learned Fri n 4, or , rather those wbe instruct him, must have seen, that in t he course of my cross examination of Rasteiti v l laid the foundation for his refutation; and they who defended, and rested o 6 his evidence, should hale had him ready to be produced whenever he might be called. If 'there was anything in thia prosecution that ought not to have been done, it was the sending Rastelli out as an agent in, this Tess,- Milan Commission. The ArroxsavaGrceeri. gild it became necessary -that the friends of the witnesses fur the prosecution, at Milan, should be assured that they were safe ; .and no- person was thought so pro per to satisfy them as Rastelli going with letters from the wit. nest's to their friends. - • - Mr. Baoucniax did not rise to reply, but to remind their Lordships-that there was. an - sod to all security against the per jury 'or a witness, if he wail to be sent out of the country. " How," said the Learned Counsel; " can I go on with this case under such circumstances !" Lord HOLLAND commenced a very animated speech, by saying be rose to advocate the cause of justice. The fact which had just come put at the Bir of that House was most monstrous (Hear, hear, hear.) When, it the commencement of this case, it waiconteinplated that perjury might be coininitted by some of the witnesses, it was asked that there should besocansecurity, that the same checks and the same penaities would.* enforced as in ordinary cases. The Learned Lord on the Tregary Bench then declared, that although Government felt simiedity in cle taining foreigners, yet that he would do everything la his power for the ends of justice. Whet aiSw appeared? Why, that one of those men, who may have. been bribed to appear at your ' Bar—(losr, hear, hear)—that this man, cross-examined by the Counsel in a manner that sheaved he intended to impeach his evidence—ahisman has been tent away-rqlfear,iov, hear).. .--" 1 ask your Lordships (said the 'Noble Lord), I appeal to the common sense of- the Country, if you„think that we .or any men hive that. degree of character as to withstand the odium,, • Itainelli was an agent, it had been said a corrupt agent, to . the Milan Commission. This. witness, who has deposed to some Of the most disgusting faits in this disgusting enquiry, baa been sent out of the •coontry. We were told that, as far as our • siltation would permit, everything should be done to pee tent any vritoesses being withdrawn from justice and et this man has been sent away by that Very authority ithich ought tq hairs isterainiscl him. This probeeding will taint all your proceedings,. and this branch. of the Leginansre., This affair lnuit he set right before we proceed any further. Nq itronger proof of a conspiracy could oust than thil,ntioniirous fact ; and your Lordships will do well to get :Id of-tie whole matter at once." • Lord LIVERPOOL, in the wsi bed ignant inagner,, dig. claimed MI idea of justifying the conduct complained of, and de r tied ROT man to state any circumstance in his public life which could give a colour to such a suspicion. With indignation he repelled the insinuation; contained in the speech of the Noble Lord (Holland), which gaVe an erroneous, fallacimis, and lama. oratory view of the conduct of Government—(lfear,from Mani kin). • lam ready. (amid Lad L.) to admit that it was the duty of *lase who are Condnitime. this busloess to ensure the conti • nuance of all the witnesses for the Bill in this tountry-untilit should come to a close ; end that the circurnscaiwe of one of the. witnesses being sent out of the country pending -the proceed ing*, was highly broopiable; but I Must acquit myself Murray cdl leagues of ail knowledge of die fact—(Loud &slat o f iletn)-- and- I must say, khat the. Attorney and Solicitor-General were as ignorsuit Of it as we wore--(Hear, heir,. hear /).- r now then tan we be charged . with'conspiracy ?" The Noble Lard then stated that tlii Cause of sending Rastelli out of the i ctuo- try was this following :—Bastelli had been employed by the ICommission as a messenger, and in brjoging witnesses over to this country. After the adjournnient -of the House,, it pas thought necessary to have more evidence, and Rastelb was considered the most proper person to bring them over to this country. He was therefore employed, but those who employed him especied him over before therHouse should meet. This i lao ' doubt, arose from an erroneous jpdgmeut, but hour an honoor-. 1 ! able motive; and there existed AO intention to withdraw the `witness from justice. As 'dots as the fact became' known _to. the. Attorney-General,. he ihatahtly sent a person onto( .the coputry to bring Itastelli back Nov, whether Allii.gink,s: ground for charging Minister! witlicoaspliact,#e wooki c ktem, # to the candour of the Howe Us decide—Vittirjoar): . • , -- ... Ml!' Although you have not been promised this Napoleon a-day, do you not expect to receive it?—lf.,they gin it tp ale I shall not refuse it; but I have not claimed it. . • Have they not behaved toward% you in suck a manner ai to make you confident that you will receive s it? • This question was withdrawn without being disputed, in con sequence of.a buzz of disapprobation in the House. Besides w)at you have received, have auy promises been made to you, or to any of your fam il y ? None z . _ Witness continued.--Ratti is an architect. He is the friend of my family, and does my business ; and in consideration of the losses I may sustain by coming over, he promised to teach my sou his profession. He did so as a kindness to my family. He must be recompensed for the loss of his time • for every man must be recompensed for the lois of his time. have made hint no promise, for he is not a common man, to whom Leis neces sary to make a promise. Ile was architect to her Royal High ness, and is nbw architect to General Pino: Are you to receive any other benefits than those you have mentioned ; for coming here ?,-The advantage of sending me back again—(4 laugh). . Matti and I went to take a'plau of part of the Viia,d'Este. Ido not know w'bether he took a plan of Villa Villahi. To the room where the'Adant and Eve were placed there were two doors. The diameter of the room was about five yards. Itc-e.masined by Mr. AV u.ussts. • I had thirty-four or thirty-five men in my employment when I came to this country. The English Gentleman of whom I spoke in talking of coming over to this country was a tall ban, with red hair. His ;same is Henry: I told the Regllsh'gendeL man the suns Ratti had fixed. Since I went. into the tampions.- ment of her Royal Highness I never knew work done in the room where the statues were. The Souerroa-Geintaat, asked, whether the Italian word pi laster meant column with a base, according to its Rnglists.sit= , nitication? • The Marchese Smartt said, it meant a pile to support a roof, and of any shape except that of a column. • Examieed by their Lordship". To Lord ELLEN BOROUG H.—There wag a pilaster intthe room where the statues were, near the. entrance fr om the ratio I had the conversation with astelli respecting tic sum due so me by the Princess about June, July, or August lait year. last payment of the money due to me was in March, intik Several questions, to the same effect, were put by the Nobler Lord, and answe red in the same manner. . • "r• Did you make immediate application for payment of sum, due to you by the Princess, after the conversation Vf 4.11 Rastelli;? —Yea To Lord ELLENBOROUGH.--.I never mentioned the' conversation I had had with Rastelli ;. it was not a businessto be told to any One ; I told it to no .one, To Lord DELAWARE--I think it was. impossible for any one to see the startles from the pilaster with the etaimn before it. The room was round tine, and the statues were on one side of it. To Lord GROSVENOR.--I have made po plan of the rooms since I came to this country. I have it in my °Sin mind. If a person was to go straight forward in the passage which' led to the room in which the statues were, he Weald break his neck:— (Laugh).—lt was not a curved passage, npr whadinga• the walla were undulated, but Ihepassage was straight. To Lord DUNSTAN VI L LE.—The 40 francs paid by Ras telli to each of the persons from my country were only paid cokes To. Lord LA UDERDA LE.—Bastelli went to the inn at Cazzoni ; told the landlord to send for BrUzzi, and when Bruzai came, Rastelli sent him for the tither persons, one after another. Had her Royal Highness a 'tiling painted at the Villa d'Eate? —She had. How was it painted ?—lt was painted in snug pannels, and in the middle there were some lowers. Mr. BLOUGIIAII observed, that a new case was now opening, and not by his Majesty's Attorney-Qer.eral. Not a word about I this ceiling had.bein said before. He did not object Co gear into this new case from •any dread of •the consequences de her Majesty, but merely in order to point out to their led.. ships the great inconvemsnce to which it would give rile. If new case,' different from that stated by the Attorney r Creili ral were gone into, then most her Majesty's advisers be and necessity of asking a new delay ,in ado- to mettAt C and II they were to have to contend with one Public Prosec4ar after 'nether there might be no and to the business. • , •prd LAUREItDA7S pootendell warmly thilt erirrret7 • i. • • .1 4 P t as to the other.. . • • •• • • Lord HOLLAND protested against this mode of di the . chiraeterOfthe House. There could be no doubt of it of their Lordships to rot any qiirstions they thought pro whew a new die was opened, it should be through the Ai general; 'so that. the Connsel for her Maiesty.might; opportunity of:nross-eptida;tng the evidence... Is.was a s of thaltindegiatail i prtnciplesTio • jusiiCe;thit they should witnesses hk — tbe *mention eitiklOthey allowed those ri to be crose.esentined.t. Nay Snore. the Possum' for the ought to here delay 40. pslpjj their. witnesses also in ,t 1 enquiry. As to prosecutors, his tnrdship said he knew ... ,~. • .3 f. jepfral Englund, I new 7 111 ,