Star. — London, England, 1820-02-19 00:00:00

•••••••• Message— to thank his Majesty for his most gracious to assure him -hat their Lordships participated in his feelings of tegret upon the loss which the Nation ' had sustained in the demise of the late Sovereign, his Royal Father—and to express their L ordshi p s' readiness to take such measures as the exigencies of the State might require in consequence of his Ma jesty's determination to call a new Parliament with out delay. The Marquis of L ANSI/OWN said, that while he yesterday expressed his approbation of the course adopted by the Iy c,bl e Earl, he wished it to be un derstooi that.he did so because that part of the sub . ject upon which no difference of opinion could take place, was very properly separated from that to w hich he was by no means prepared to assent. He was not one of those who held precedents in super stitious veneration; yet perhaps, if there was any oc casion wherein a feeling of that kind might he en tertained with regard to them, it was where a Crown was transmitted with all the imposing characteris tics of regal dignity. Mit what course did the Noble Earl call upon the lic;use to adopt? it was one which, before that, no Minister had ventured to propose, inasmuch as he dared not advise the Sove reign upon the propriety of Parliament fixing the period of its own dissolution. This was manifestly unconstitutional, as it went to interfere with the pre rogative of the Crown. Was it supposed that the present Parliament was less capable of transacting the public business than the new one to be called by the Crown, or were measures to be proposed to the former which could not be submitted to the latter, ' as being less tractable? He expected that the Noble Earl would have stated some grounds for his extra ordinary proceeding, but he had not done so, nor offered any arguments but such as could easily be refuted. The Noble Marquis then adverted to for mer precedents, contending that the Civil List had always been settled immediately after the new reign commenced, and before the existing Parliament was dissolved. As instances of the fact, he referred to the reigns of Queen Anne, George 1. and George He next commented on the inconvenience which the public business must expeiiencr from the abrupt dis solution of Parliament; and particularly urged the -necessity of coming to some previous determination for reducing the number of troops added to the standing army, an increased force being no longer necessary, though imperiously called for at the time by the extent 01 political disaffection which pre vailed. In his opinion, it was the intention of Minis ters to establish this additional force as perinanent i by getting the approbation of Parliament to a short Mutiny Bill, in which it was to be included. The Noble Marquis concluded with stating again, that some measures were in contemplation which, it was • -expected, a new Parliament might sanction, but to which the present one could never accede. The Earl of HARROWBY argued, that the course proposed in the present case was far more' advantageous and convenient, with respect to the public business, than that contended for by the No ble Lord. The Noble Marquis was likewise mis taken in assuming, that Parliament was here called upon to advise the Crown, with respect to the pe• riod of its own dissolution. No such inference could fairly be drawn. The Crown merely communicated its determination to the House,. and the House en its part had to consider whether it would concur in cer tain measures which were essential to the public ser 'vice. With respect to the Civil List, on which so much stress was laid, would it not be preferable in a case where it was impossible, at the utmost, that Parliament could last longer than six months, to bring that extensive and important subject, at a pe riod and under circumstances in which it could un dergo a thorough investigation, into full discussion ? Even at the present moment, the country was begin ning to feel inconvenience from the prospect of a pending dissolution; and it certainly was advisable not to leave it long in such a state of suspense, but to go, as soon as was safely practicable, to a Gene ral Election. There was no prospect of bringing for ward those great questions to any beneficial conchs sion'in the interval which could remain of the conti nuance of the present Parliament, and it would be infinitely more advantageous to enter upon the in-. vestigations in a Legislature by which they were cer tain to be deliberately concluded. Under the pecu liar circumstances of the present case, it was impos sible these discussions could be gone into consistently with the public advantage; and that was the ques tion upon which they had to consider, in order to de termine their minds. No measures should be pro posed that there did not appear a certainty of being duly considered, in what was likely to remain of the present Parliament. Earl GROSVENOR observed, he should trouble tlseir Lordships with a very few words upon the pre sent -occasion. He could not consistently-approve of the proposed course. It would appear there was an endeavour to coerce the decision of Parliament ; and in no constitutional point of view did it strike him that the proposition was justifiable. He was opposed to the measure of postponing, to an indefi nite period, the consideration of subjects of the highest national importance, and without making the least endeavour to reduce the public expenditure.— The finances of the country were in that lamentable state, that no delay whatever should take place in at tempting to meliorate them. As to the idea of suf fering a large addition to the military force to re main, it was what he must regard with the highest disiatisfaction. Why was a large force maintained in this country—or for what purpose ? .Could it row be said that it was for the purpose of putting' down 'disaffection ? They bad lately heard, even to nauseating, that disaffection bad been put down.— The continuation of such a large addition to the Army would, were there no other reason, induce him to oppose a line of procedure which he could not agree to sanction with his vote. The Earl of LAUDERDALE began by observing that none of the alleged reasons, for the course now adopted by Ministers, bad the least weight in justi fying it. The Noble Earl at the head of the Trea sury (Liverpool), had said, that if Parliament were to be continued for the Sessions under the anticipa tion of a dissolution at the end skit, or in the course t,f six n, Halls, as prescribed by last s the Members would be so much employed in attending phi their -own concerns, and in taking steps for their future se-election, that they would be tuiable to attend to . . the business of the Nation. This objection might have been made to former Parliaments which, in si milar circumstances ? had concluded the bustffess of the Session before a dissolution. What then became of the Noble Lord's argument-;-4 his only argu , . . merit ? It was said by the Noble Ear rat the Ci vil List would require protracted divirssion, and, therefore, that Ministers would, not how submit a settlement of it, lest it mi ,l ead to such discussion. Now, would it not be bettii-0 submit the whole sub . - ject to Parliament, where it might be discussed with knowledge, than to allow it to be discussed by the Public without any information ? Bet his. Noble Friend near him (the Marquis of Lansdown), had asked how the Civil List was to be provided for in the interval between the dissolution of the present and the convocation of a new Parliament ? and had not received a satisfactory answer. The hereditary, revenues of the Clown were mostly appropriated to the Consolidated Fund, and to the payment of the public debt. The Consolidated Fund would he de ficient if these revenues, so appropriated, were inter fered with. How was this deficiency to be made good, on the supposition that the revenues of the Crown, so appropriated, were to revert to the So vereign ? It was the duty of Ministers to have these points settled before the dissolution. He (the Noble Earl) could not agree to the motion which was now before the House. The Earl of CARNARVON saw.no grounds for the extraordinary proceedings now proposed to be followed. He had• expected from the Noble Lords opposite some explanation in addition to the meagre information which had been afforded by the Noble Earl who opened the debate. That Noble Earl al luded to some things more notorious and less noto rious, but he did not specify what he meant. It was at first said by him, that it would rest with their Lordships whether they would authorize an early dissolution, by agreeing to the measures necessary to precede it ; but the Is Earl afterwards deserted this ground, and rested the question of the dissolu tion on the will of his Majesty alone. With regard to the balance of conveniences and inconveniences which was resorted ato for the purpose of determin ing the expediency of an immediate dissolution, he (Lord Carnarvon) would beg leave to make an ob servation or two. His Noble Friend (Lord Lans down) had well stated, that if any Parliament, on the demise of the Crown, should be allowed to sit till the business of the Session was vine through, it ought to be the present.. It was a new Parliament : it tad proceeded in the business of the Session a con-. siderable way already, and it had still six months before it, which was the usual length of a Session. But it had been said, that the Members. of the other House, if the Session was still to last, would be so much occupied with their own interests, that they would forget those of their Constituents. This ap , peared to him (Lord Carnarvon) a most extraordi. nary objection (Hear, hear). It was the first time he ever keard of Members becoming more careless of the interests of their Constituents in proportion as the time advanced for expecting a renewal of their suffrages (Hear, hear!) He had always understood, that during the last Session of a Parliament, Members endeavoured, as much as possible, to cultiVatePopu7 lar favour ; and how could they do so by neglecting the interests, or opposing.the wishes, of their Consti tuents? With the exception of those that sat on the Treasury Bench, he was entitled to conclude, that an approaching dissolution would rather quicken dili 7 price fit the promotion of public objects, than pro duce neglect. This reason for an immediate disso lution could not, therefore, he the true one. What, then, was the true reason ? The Noble Earl oppo site (Harrowby) had disclaimed any secret or un avowed reason. But was there not room, for suspi cion ? When their Lordships saw Ministers resort ing to temporary expedients—when they heard them propounding, as the motives of their conduct, rea sons which could not stand the test of examination, and found them dissolving Parliament at so incon venient a season, and with so slight an excuse, was there not ground for suspecting that they had ob jects in view which they durst not declare, and mea sures to propose which they durst not submit, with 1, any chance of success, to a Parliament acting under, the anticipation of a general election? The suspicion here was necessarily created by tbe conduct 'or the , 'Ministers themselves. If they had nothing to sub;.. .mit now, which they were afraid to declare, why 'dissolve Parliament? They. were bound to give some satisfactory account* of the grounds of their conduct, and to explain the reasons why such a dif ference was observable between the course now pro posed, and that piirsued on similar occasions for merly. It was incumbent upon them to explain why :they departed from prkedents (Hear, 'hear), They had not done so; they gave no reasons fOi their con duct. On the contrary, there appeared strong Con stitutional reasons for not dissolving Parliament at the present moment; so strong, indeed, that he would not hesitate to declare his conviction, thit a Minister whe, in present circumstances, advised a dissolution, did not do his duty by his King and Country!— (Hear, hear). There were three Boroughs, the Re presentation of which was at present Suspended, from proofs of gross corruption; and there was a fourth, to disfranchise, on the same account, for which i Bill had been introduced into the other House. Such was the state of the Representation. Was there not here the strongest ground to continue the Session till some law should be passed regarding these BoroUghi? Would the inhabitants of these places be called upon to exercise rights which they bad forfeited by cor rupt practices, and concerning which one branch of the Legislature had instituted proceedings, which a dissolution would annul? One of these Boroughs had been so notoriously corrupt, that Ministers them selves had agreed to the transfer of its franchise to another place; and would they now, by dissolving Parliament, restore the exercise of that franchise to electors who had so abused it? He should not say one word mere upon the subject, but would oppose, the course proposed by Ministers. • Earl BATHURST 'begged their Lordships to bear in mind two things which would go far to de- cide the policy of the-froposed measure—namely;l l that this Parliament could by law sit only six , months ; and, secondly; that the business of the Ses sion was scarcely yet begun. Noble Lords had re- curred to what took plate on former becasions'et similar nature, but they did not take into view the j tine of the tear, or the period of the §eseion, the demise of the Crown happened'. T)teir,ptoe - 1 dents, thetefOre; could not strictly ap" Anne died in August ? when the business of ttotres . ston was nearly over. George I. in June, and 11. in October. There was a wide difference ipoint of the progress of public business between any of those cases and the present. It had been said that, in those instances, Members had continued at their posts, and discharged their Parliamentary duties, in the anticipation of a ntw election : but, at present t a greater degree of ferment and agitation prevailed regarding the election than at any former period.— This was evident from the circumstance, that on the very day when the death of the late King was an nounce.l,-and in the very Paper that announced it, an electioneering advertisement was published. The animosities and angry feelings of the last election had not yet subsided. There was no prospect, therefore, that in such a ferment, Members could attend so calmly and dispassionately to their Parliamentary duties, as they might be expected to do when their own business was terminated—their election contests , decided. Knowing this, and knowing that the busi ness of the Session might not be fully executed in the time 'allowed by law for the existence of this Par , liament, he would ask, was it not better to dissolve it now thil at a time when a greater interruption to pub lic business must be the consequence of a dissolution? Lord - KING was of opinion that the measure of an immediate dissolntion, would not bring together a new Parliament at an earlier period than that to which the present Parliament may with propriety be continued. Besides, in the case of a new Parliament, the glen subjects alluded to could not be brought forward but at a period or season of the year in which a full and adequate attendance of Membeis could pot be hoped for. In every former case of a demise the Civil flit was proceeded upon without delay, and the question of the Hereditary Crown Revenues was one' which he thought peculiarly called for the speedy attention of Parliament, especially as a por tion of their' was held to expire on a demise of the crown. As far as the Civil List was concerned, he deemed it disrespectful to the Crown thus to post pone its arrangement. The LORI) CHANCELLOR argued, that the Noble L9rds who opposed the proposition before the House, had taken a very erroneous view of the grounds upon which the Advisers of the Crown pro ceeded. By the ancient Law and Constitution of the country, Parliament was ipso facto dissolved by the demise of the Crown. The regulation which extended ifs duration, subject to the discretion of the reigning Prince, to the length of six months, was merely in tended to promote _ the public convenience or the public interest. Therefore, when it clearly appeared that Parliament could not be usefully continued to the extent allowed, it certainly was never the inten tion that it should necessarily exist for that time. In every case the Constitutional prerogative of the Crown was Carefully reserved, and the application of its exercise could never depend upon the sense of Parliament. Its purpose could never constitutionally be thwarted by Parliament, and it was not for the latter to take uponitself to say, that thitrown should not dissolve Parliament, or throw insuperable obstacles in the way of its exercises. Upon these con victions he felt it his duty to support the motion for the Address. The Marquis of LANSDOWN and the Earl of LIVERPCIOL . spoke shortly in explanation ; in which the Noble Minister observed, that Parliament, by the adoption of temporary measures, might preclude the possibility of injury resulting to the public service in the interval which must unavoidably take place between the dissolution of the present and the assem bling of a new Parliament. The question was then put, the Address was voted, and ordered to be presented to his Majesty by . the Lords with white staves, and the House adjouraed till Monday. nufoeturost of breWesida-mader-Lyn. praying lir • Repeal of the additional Duty upon Wool.—laeld on die Wile. On the Motion of Dr. PH 'LUXOR& the second reading of the Marriage Amendment Act was postponed tili Friday nen. Mr. LEMON moved for Returns of Culver. exported front Great Britain up to January, igen, and also the .Irrottat posted front London, and the quantity imported, nptuf) pig the ommtnes.--sarsiereu. Mr. litnicantmot brought up an Account of the Balances of Cash is the hands of the lank, on the tot and 15th of the cur rent month.-11,id on the table. A Person from the City of London brought up a List of the Nantes, and other particulars, relative to Vagrants cows:ratted to places of eirrection in the City, from the Ist of January s 1919, to the lit of January, 1990.—Laid on the table A Person frim the Pay-Office brought up as Account of ,ike . total Rtpenees of the Pay-Olfice from 1798 to 1813, and fly, Estimate for 11119.4—Laidon the table. ROYAL MESSAGE. Lord CASTLEREAG ii moves! the Order of the Day for the reading of his Majesty's Most Gistrieui Message, which bents read accordingly, the N, old Lord said he rose for the purpose of moving air humble Address to the Throne in answer is the; Message, and also to state the course , wh i ch a t t he present crisis his Majesty's Ministers thought right to pursue. The country was now, he said, differentli circumstanced from what it was before the recessi What was then done had reference to the covintry as to the state in which it then stood, but since that a demise of the Crown had taken place. This great event had made a new course of proceedings neces sary ; under these circumstances only two .courses presented themselves to his Majesty's Ministers— either to endeavour to meet the . exigencies df the crisis, and go regularly through public business in the present Session, or adopt temporary measures !Or the present, and call a new Parliament for the regular dispatch of business, 'and the adoption of the necessary arrangements. If the former course were adopted, it would be considered unfai. in Mi nisters to make any selection of business. Whatever they might do, other topics and other subjects v'ould be thought to have as great a right to be disposed of, and if it were open to every Member to intro duce what subjects he pleased, the Crown must be placei in the awkward situation of being obliged to suffer the Parliament to continue in existencebeyoud the usual time, or would 'lse under the necessity of cutting short the Session before the subjects with which the Legislature was occupied came to any sa tisfactory conclusion. It was of course known, that aoy public measure brought in, and not completed in the present Session, must. fall to the ground.— Looking, therefore, to the alternative, his Majesty's Ministers had decided in favour of advising the call of a new Parliament : and he was sure the feeling of the House would go along with him, that k was the best mode that could be adopted under the necessity of the case. It was indeed usual, immediately after a demise, to make prevision for a great portion of the Civil Establishment; but then it was to be con sidered that such matters could not be adju ted at once. Time would be required for Gentlemen to snake up their minds, and besides, the House would Ise naturally open to other propositions coming from different Members. It would be awkward to pre vent other Gentlemen from banging forward subjects which they judged to be of pttblic importance. The state of attendance was .rtso to be taken into consi deration, and it would be hopeless to look for a full attendance when Gentlemen were occupied in pre paration for future elections, and matters of the first interest could not be so well arranged as when there were calm minds and a good attendance. For these reasons the advisers of the Crown had preferred to suggest the measure of regulating the public affairs in a new Parliament. As to private business, it would be resumed in the same state in which it had been left in the Parliament dissolved ; and no injury could, in the meantime, arise to public business. — It was not necessary to propose, at present, any sum for Army• Services, as a sufficient sum had been voted to. answer the demands of the interval. But it was intended to continue the Mutiny Bill to the 25th of June, and also to continue such other Bills as would naturally expire iu the interval to the same period. He was of opinion, that by_this means the present Parliament would be enabled to s du ties completed by the end of the present month, so as' to allow'the dissolution to take place on Ow Ist of March, as the new Parliament might be assem.: bled en the 25th of April. He did not think it ite cessary to offer any further observations to the House. -He then concluded by moving, That an humble Address be presented tehis Majesty, aeknow: ledging, with every sentiment of gratitude, the sense which his faithful Commons entertained of his hay e iog'been graciously Pleased to make a commlinica.- tioit on the subject of public business, and of 114 in tentions to call a new Parliament without delay, ada to assure his Majesty that they would immediately adopt such measures as would provide for the exi gencies, of the pUblic servicto in the interval which was to elapse between the close of the present Ses sion and the convening of a new Parliament. Mr. TIERNEY said, that such a measure as that now proposed; had never at any former time been brought forward—such a mode of proceeding had never been adopted at any accession sincelthe Revo lution. The general course was, withoorany suffi cient ground having been stated, to be now departed from. They were daily told, that it was the -best thing they could do, to provide for the immediate exigencies, and then dissolve; but nothing whatever was said in the Message, or by Ministers, in reference to future Government; nothing like this had hap pened, whether the House was actually, in a state of prorogation or not; at such a time, more might have been taken notice of. As it was, he could not help giving to the proceeding the epithet indecorous. On all similar occasions, the Prince-had requested the House to make good the provision which was to defray the expenses of his establishment. By so doing, he recognized the power inherent Wake.. House, of voting or not voting the sums necessary to support the Royal dignity - . There were, indeed, some of what were called the hereditary revenues, which were independent of Parliament ; but what were generally so called, expired with the demise of the Crown. k required new Acts to authorise their collection. The words of his late Majesty expressly avowed this, that they could not, without an Act, be collected or iip lAied. Why such a departure from all precedent. was now resorted to, he could not say. •He was sure there was something at the bottom of it which it was not intended that he should underitand. Why no the Civil List voted as it heretofore had been ? The Noble Lortsai4, it. would *calf,. a considerable time abets; Aye **irate ne Pot the Civil new; a id h.nl bee the mate to mean , ' ti mini on It but,. Atm cl l 4rate • 7i fhl relv . nei t ficulties 1 lion of rl that it IN, by no ni o pecific s ' 7 f ormer 00 The i` 4 , h ir6e. , ce. I thro.y. h . - id* so f Gentlem , the mont • There wr 11Session 1 Wild the' • then goil • was s•m , -ackaowli i. 'the HOU be had a ••• to sacrifi therefore ~... :1, . b aest t e b rsom o nLo a t a t u e b n ;r tl re yl dt sa icih i g: that thin the Civi Mr. T ' Gcntlern them fol i Nothing necessar remove) duct wa „ from it, Civil Li aware of of Gent: l • occupiec : i teturnn r• , • him tro -They a occasion lIOUSE OF. COMMONS. The Serainta took the Chair at half.past three o'clock, when upwards of thirty Members took the oaths" among whom were Lord LOWTHIS, Mr. ROZITZT . NIL, Lord J. STIVIIAUT, Sir E. Cost, Mr. A. Wawa? Lord Avraoarz, Lord Jocanru, Lord Arguer, ant Sir E. latamsox. Sir WILIAAM CURTIS presented a Petition from the Prisoners confined for Debt ill Whitecroamtreet Prison, pray ing the continuance of the Bill for the Relief of Insolvent Debtors.—Ordered to lie on the Table. Mr. ABERCROMBY presented a Petition from the Pri sonde confined for Debt in the King's Bench Prison, praying, that the House Might renew the Intolvent Debtors Act for such time as they might deem expedient. 'The Honourable and Learned Gentleman observed, that the Petitioners stated, in support Of their prayer, that which he enosidered its unanswer able. They mentioned ' that the present Bill, which would el pire on the 22d of this month, was paged with the intention that it should remain in force for three months Ore* the coenL 1 mencement of the next Session, during which period it was ex pected that sufficient time would be allowed for passing a new Bill on the subject. Though that time had now nearly elapsed, it was. known that sufficient time had not been afforded for go ing into an inquiry or bringing in the other RM. He trusted, - that as Gentlemen opposite were in such a hurry to dissolve Par liament, they would, amongst other Acts suffer this Balm be renewed, and not dissolve this law, which was so important to Oa Petitioners, and to others in their situation. He was the more earnest in tkis hope as the principle of the Bill had been so often recognized by Parliament.—The Petition was brought up - and read. On the question that it do lie on the table, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not con ceive that; it was expedient to introduce anew an at the present moment. The subject was one of which his Majesty's Ministers had not been unmiodfel, aad he conceived that they and the House bad to thank the Noble Lord' (Althorp) who had taken such pains on this important subject, which he trusted would be renewed in the next Parliament. At the same time he would state, on the part of his Majesty's Ministers, that no objection would be made to the renewal of this 13111, 'amongst others, for a time. Lord ALTHORP conceived the measure to be one of con siderable importance, but be thought it better that it should he ' co mmenced de novo, than that a Bill should be introduced lb make any alteration at present. It would bi better to have it begun in the next Parliament, and that in the meantime the -present Bill should be renewed.—The Petition was dlrdered to lie on the table. Sir WILLIAM DE CRESPIGNY presented a Petition from a person who, in the capacity of Chairman of Parish Meetings at Newington Butts, in the county of Surrey, had some time since discovered a nefarious syitem of peculation practised by a Collector of the King's Taxes. The Petitioner lodged qui tan informations against the defaulter, on which he was convicted and fined £looo—of that fine, the Petitioner had supposed himself entitled to a moiety ; but he had received but £l5O from the Commissioners of the Revenue, which nut con ceiving to be an adequate remuneration fur the loss of time and great trouble which the actions had cost him, he prayed for jus tice and relief from Parliament.—Laid on the table. Mr. F. BUXTON gave notice, that the Chairmen of the Committee on the Criminal Laws (Sir J. Mackintosh) intended to move Per the revival of the Committee,..which had, under the direction"( the Hill. and Learned Gentleman, laboured so usefully in the last Sargon to procure a revision o f Criurtnal COO. Mr: KINNERSLEY presents :Petition from the Hat Ma-, . • 2 , ble Lori hit th before It was. semen to lo ,th of M mold be what 01 !ti there ing on. some reaso souse was a public ificehis re, see t fished cuss grant. grant? i CAST' TIERN; they ougi Credit, CHANC (ere was A List t TIMM .man cou illowing ig haw' ary, , ed by the as unacc L , is t t ht o t u h l of. It v itlemen iiect with ing office om pro y ought r moue, by whic from the Crow the expense, appointment c tucisure ot the sent, to be kept authorized the part ot the po the country wa danger that pe there was no as to allow ter liadeed, there c Plass ot his M: 4 t4The no y ti k e e i h e p a n t n w u ce r The Noble La comber. He net make him would occur Eiesion, which 'Right Hon. G declaration on for the Civil I Lord CA: being actuate& which he had the vote for April, ought I it his oppoaiti stitutional je fitzwer of the feet of the su, more favour:ll those becomir gard to the 11 been in the h was to avoid ably ensue to ,grounds .whic .present meast than what he Mr. TIER: stated, that t 1 attended witl {Mr. Tierney) hot wish foi question. 11 called upon until Ate find the extraordi anent should' The CH) said, that tho get the arran 1233. He y that 'part ofi Right Hon. but, at the s; plicable to Revenues a • Aid not, as 311QFC than. f was hss lute ten.ancount 4 that such g! He assured. silents, no a ; but Would take Slew (Dreg, which bad,l diseuxibUdiec be exercised %such au Ac of conorn4r, itckve air *isplies tb Eaki,ooo, voted es nv bear- with gums Roil be reciiire4 by getting the approoation us KAI HAW... ••-• .. .....-. ,‘,... ." - Mutiny Bill, in which it was to be included. The But it had been said, that the 'Members. of the r --- ----- - . Noble Marquis concluded with stating again, that other House, if the Session was still to last, would be that Parliament could not be usefully continued to ---- a demise, to make prevision fora great portion of • the Civil Establishment ; but then it was to be con- 7 sent, to be kept some measures were in contemplation which, it was so much occup ied with their wn interests, they the extent allowed, it certainly was never the inlet- the that such matters Could not be adju led at ' au th orized the • expected, a new Parliament might sanction, but to would forget t h ose of their Constituents. This ap- tint that it should necessarily exist for that time. In every case the Constitutional prerogative of the s part ot the joi which the present one could never accede. geared to him (Lord Carnarvon) a most extraordi-once. Time would be required for Gentlemen to " - s the country Na Crown was easefully reserved , and the application The Earl of HARROWBY argued, that the nary objection (Hear, hear). It was the fist time make up their minds, and besides, the House would /s , 1 danger that pe of its exercise could never depend upon the sense of :milt . se proposed in the present case was far more he ever beard of' Members becoming more careless la naturally open to other propositions coming from different Members. It would be awkward to pre- 1• . there was no Parliament. Its purpose could never constitutionally adOantageous and convenient, with respect to the of the interests of their Constituents in proportion as vent other Gentlemen from bringing forward subjects 35 to aliow ter be thwarted by Parliament, and it was not for the public business, than that contended for by the No- the time advanced for expecting a renewal of their • Indeed, there c latter to take upon itself to say, that thitrown ble Lord. The Noble Marquis was likewise mis- suffrages (Hear, hear!) He had a l ways understood, which they judged to be of public importance. The Mass ot his M. should not dissolve Parliament , or throw insuperable talc= in assuming, that Parliament was here called that during the last Session of a Parliament, Members state of attendance was also to be taken into consi- •••s- Why then was obstacles in the way of its exeicises. Upon these sou- upon to advise the Crown, with respect to the pe. endeavoured, as muCh as possible, to cultitatePopu- deration, and it would be hopeless to look for a full ' . . to,be kept up 1 victions he felt it his duty to support the motion for riod of its own dissolution. No such inference could lar favour ; and how could they do so by neglecting the Address. paration for future elections, and matters of the first attendance when Gentlemen were occupied in pre- .be uo chance 4 fairly be drawn. The Crown merely communicated die interests, or opposing.the wishes, of their Consti- The Noble La The Marquis of LANSDOWN and the Earl of . not cc"r ma lier ke . bi ll iss 4 its determination to the House,. and the House on its ruents? W 4.11 tbe exception of those that sat on the interest could not be so well arranged as when there LIVERPOOL - spoke shortly in explanation ; in which part had to consider whether it would concur in ter- Treasury Bench, he was entitled to conclude, that an were calm minds and a good attendance. For these the Noble Minister observed, that Parliament, by the taro measures which were essential to the public ser- approaching dissolution would rather quicken dili- s u gg est the measure of regulating the public affairs reasons the advisers of the Crown had preferred to would oat's' te . adoption of temporary measures, might preclude the vice. With respect to the Civil List, on which so gence in the promotion of public objects, than pro - ; Sesion, which possibility of injury resulting to the public service much stress was laid, would it not be preferable in a duce neglect. This reason for an immediate disco- in the interval which must unavoidably take place in a new Parliament. As to private business, it Right Hon. G case where it was impossible, at the utmost, that lobo could not, therefore, he the true one. What, would be resumed in the same state in which it had declaration on between the dissolution of the present and the assem- Parliament could last longer than six months, to then, was the true reason? The Noble Earl oppo 7 . - ri been left in the Parliament dissolved and no injury for the Civil b ng of a new Parliament. bring that extensive and important subject, at a pe- site (Harrowby) had disclaimed any secret or un- could, in the meantime, arise to public business.— Lord CA: The question was then put, the Address was voted, riod and under circumstances in which it could un- avowed reason. But was there not room for sus i• and Ordered to be presented to his Majesty by the It was not necessary to propose, at present, any sum i being actuates dergo a thorough investigation, into full discussion? riot? When their Lordships saw Ministers resort-for Army• Services, as a sufficient sum had been which he had Lords with white staves, and the House adjourned . ... a A y h r .i i!, o o p u p g o l: i t ti i Even at the present moment, the country was begin- ing to temporary expedients—when they heard them till Monday. voted to answer the demands of the interval. But the vote for 1 ning to feel inconvenience from the prospect of a propounding, as the motives of their conduct, sea- it was intended to continue the Mutiny Bill tu the 25th of June, and also to continue such other Bills - ..,,:,, rz stit w u e t r io o n f al th j e e pending dissolution; and it certainly was advisable sons which could not stand the test of ex ami nat ion,e • lIOUSE OF- COMMONS. as would naturally expire iu the interval to the same not to leave it long in such a state of suspense, but and found them dissolving Parliament at so incon- The Sezainta took the Chair at [pacthal three o'clock, when sect of the sU, upwards i, of thirty Members took the oaths , among whom were so , , w go, as soon as was safely practicable, to a Gene- venient a season, and wit h so slight an excuse, wasperiod. He was of opinion, that by s this means the Roassv - Pses., Lord J. STIVIAILT, Sir E. sal Election. There was no prospect of bringing for- there not ground for suspecting that they had ob- -°— --asw":4l,47' Mr . COT, ...r. A. . Lions, Lord ALTMOM, Lord JOCZLVII, Lord 1? Parliament would be enablectto have i:s do- - ties completed by the end of the present month, so . ward those great questions to any beneficial conclu- jests in view which they sturst not declare, and mea- A.escrt, ad Sir E. Exuma. 'to allow the to take place tau the lot snore favoural sioisin the interval which could remain of the consi- sores to prOpose which they durst not su b m i t, with sit' WILJAAM CURTIS presented a Petition from thethose becomir Prisoners conned fi for Debt ip Whitecrosoostreet Prison, play- nuance of the present Parliament, and it would be any chance of success, to a Parliament acting under of March, as the new Parliament might be _ossems : gard to the II ing the continuance of The Bill for the . Relief of Insolvent infinitely more advantageous to enter upon the in-. the anticipation of a general election? The suspicion on the Table. bled an the !I.sth of April. - He did not thinK it ne- , been in fl it as` dissolution ie h vestigations in a Legislature by which they were cer- h e r e was necessarily created by the conduct:of the Ds :ir ABERCROMBY n a 's Petition from the Fri- cessary to offer any futther observations to the lie then concluded by moving, That an was to avoid tam ' tai be deliberately concluded . Under the porn - Ministers themselves. If they had nothing to sub;. south . confined for Debt in the presented i ably ensue to • liar circumstances of the present case, it was impos- :mil now, which they were afraid to declare, why . that the house Might renew the I g nsolvent Debtori p A ra cr a fo g ; tiouse. - humble Address be presented mills Majesty, ac know. ,grounds .whir such time atthey might deem expedient. The Honourable and Bible these discussions could be gone into consistently 'dissolve Parliainent?* TheY. were bound to give Learned Gentleman observed, that the Petitioners stated, in le idg ng, with every sentiment . of gratitude, the sense - .present meant with the public advantage; and that was the goes - some satisfactory acconneof the grounds of theirf* their prayer , that which he considered as unanstvcr- which hi ••' Is faithful Commons entertained of his hays • than what he tion upon which they had to consider, in order to de- conduct, and to 'etplaiiibeleascins whY such a dif- support ae. G ' Prey mentioned ' that the Bill , ' present which would ex- iffy been graciously pleased to make a commtinica.- ' Mr• TIER: termiue their minds. No measures should be pro- . ference was observable between the now pro- sre on the 22d of this month, was passed with the interitien • - twit on the subject of public business, and of his in- * that it should remain in force' for three months after the tom- stated, that il posed that there did net appear a certainty of being posed, and that pursued on similat ore asions liar- tendons to call a new Parliament without delay, and - mencement of the next Session, during which period it wit ex- attended witl auly considered, in what was likely to remain of the, merly. It Was incumbent upon them to eipl' •wl y Pected that suf fi cient time would be allowed for passing a new to assure his Majesty that they would immediately {Mr. Tierney) present Parliament. ithey departed from preeedents (Hear, - hear), They Hill on the subject. Though that time bad now nearly elapsed, adopt such measures as would provide for the eat- , hot wish foi Earl GROSVENOII. observed, he should trouble had not done se; they no reasons for their con- it wa n ks own that sufficient time had not been afforded for go- - • o f ing ito an inquiry or bringing in the other BM. He trusted; gencies the public service* in the interval e bias ss• question. ii their Lordships With avers! few words upon the pre- duct. On the contrary, there appeared Strong Con- that as Gentlemen o e were ot i h n such A a hurry to d issolve . Par- . was to elapse between the close of the present Ses- , called upon sent occasion. lle could not consistently approve of stitutional reasons for not dissolving Parliament at e arn - sot, they would,t o b e mon and the convening of a new Parliament. until Ale fins amongst law, er whichetsse wag er w ahls lint 1 , the proposed course. It would appear there was an the present moment; so strong, indeed, that he would renewed, and not dissolve this important to e r. IIERNEY said, that such a measure as that the extraordi endeavour to coerce the-decision of Parliament ; not hesitate to declare his conviction, thit a Minister the Petitioners, and to othees in heir situation. lie was ' • had•never had been th now b proposed, at any former time been more earnest in tails hope as the principle of the Billanent should' and in no constitutional point of view did it strike who, in present circumstances, advised a dissolution, so and recognized bran forward—such a mode oaf the Parliament.—Tee . Petition was brought -es . . proceeding had The CH) him that the proposition was justifiable. He was did not do his duty by his King and Country!— a l ly of on th th e a E t i l t c do li t t on th e ß d. table, t n l ev . e Th r been adopted at any accession sincethe Revo- , said, that the Opposed to the measure of postponing, to an indefi- p resentation hear). There were three BoroUghs, the Re- UP The CHANCE ntion. e general course was, withOne•any Sal.. rite period, the consideration of subjects of the presentation of which was at present Suspended, from ceive that; it was expedient to introduce a'new on at th id e no pee c se on nt - mitt ground having been stated, to be now departed ' et the arran moment. The subject was one of which his Majesty's Ministers 733. He v highest national importance, and without making the to of gross corruption; and there was a fourth, from. Th e y were' h bre unmindfel, mad he conceived that they and the , . d al l y told, that it was the best least endeavour to reduce the public expooditure.— to disfranchise, on the same account, for which a Bill sad trot house a to thank the Noble . Lord' (A . lthorp) who had taken wing they could do, to provide for the immediate that 'part of night Hon. ( The finances of the country were in that lamentable had been introduced into the other House. Such ism pains on this important subject, which he trusted would be exi encies and th • g . , en dissolve; but nothing whatever .; . state, that no delay whatever should take place in at- was the state of the Representation. Was th ere not renewed in the next Parliament. At the same time he would was said in the Message, or by Ministers, in reference • . hut, at the s: empting to meliorate them. As to the idea of suf- here the strongest ground to continue the Session till state, on the part of his Majegy's Ministers, that no objection world t o i si m id e. be made to the renewal of this Bill, amongst others, for to future Government ; nothing like this had hap- ' plicable to faring a large addition to the military force to re- some law should be passed regarding these BoroUghs? pened, whether the House was actually, in a state of ' • ' Revenues a stain, it was what he must regard with the highest Would the inhabitants of these places be called upon Lerd ALTHORP conceived the measure to be . one of con- prorogation or not ;at such a time, more might did not, as dissatisfaction. Why was a large force maintained to exercise rights which they bad forfeited by coto siderable importance, but be thought it better that it should l i e have been taken notice of. As it was, he could not snore than f bps ins I in this country—or for what purpose ? .Could it rupt practices, and concerning which one branch of *commenced de no make any e a n o t at present. ea, than that a Bill should be introduced ' It would be better to have i . t help giving to the proceeding the epithet indecorous. :was hate r. ow be said that it was for the purpose of putting the Legislature had instituted proceedings, which a b P e ar r i e ia u m ew ent, and that in the meantime the On all similar occasions, the Princeehad requested .. fonnqount e down disaffection ? They bad lately heard, even to dissolution would annul ? One of these Boroughs pre g se un nt m lßl S l . s e h n ol .—The Petition was 4irdered to the House to make good the provision which was to 11 thatsuch g! nauseating, that disaffection bad been put down.— had been so notoriously corrupt, that Ministers them- tie on the table. defray the expenses of his establishment. By so doing, He assured- !. ' Sir WILLIAM DE CRESPIGNY presented a Petition.itte-nts, no a The continuation of such a large addition to the selves had agreed to the transfer of its franchise to he recognized the power inherent Wake. House, of from Meetingsii gerson who, in the capacity of Chairman of ParishßlNlC ; it Army would, were there no other reason, induce him another place; and would they now, by dissolvingvoting or not voting the sums necessary to supporr , some Butts, in the county of Surrey, had old take to oppose a line of procedure which he could not Parliament, restore the exercise of that franchise tothe Royal dignity. There were, indeed, some of , nefarious ßingsT a sl es it . em . of e peculation ngree to sanction with his vote. electors who had so abused it? He should not say practised by a Colle e c a tor of th a e WM' what were called the 11-reditary revenues which wer • Imw ". one word mere upon the subject, but would oppose lodged qui tam informations against the defaulter, on which he -- ' • s • ' es . icl t nafit i independent of Parliament ; but what were generally :s 4 . • • . The Earl of LAUDERDALE began by observing was convicted and fi ned .Clooo—of that fine, the l'etitioner had gene rally the course proposed b y . Ministers. that nape of the alleged reasons, for the course now supposed himself entitled to a moiety • but he had received rut so called, expired with the demise of the Crown. k. '. be exercised adopted by Ministers, bad the least weight in justi- Earl BATHURST begged ' their Lordships to £l5O from the Commissioners of the Revenue, which nut coo- required new Acts to authorise their collection. The . mach nu Ali tying it. The Noble Earl at the head of the Trea- bear in mind two things which would go far to de- eelvie2 to be an adequate remuneration fur the loss of time and words of his late M • Majesty expressly avowed this, that- sissy (Liverpool), had said, that if Parliament were ride the policy of the-proposed measure—namely; great trouble which the actions had cost him, he prayed for •us- i they could not, without an Act, be collected or sip- of fc•bbornl, t,. be continued for the Session, under the anticipa- that this Parliament could by law sit mil? six rice aid rF reli ß et u * f x re r m o P v arliament.—Laid on the table. gave notice, that the Chair /slim o f the plied. Why such a departure from all precedent • Oe• for • ; %applies th lion of a dissolution at thaend of it, or in the course months ; and, secindly; that the business of the Ses- coma'siiiet on the Cr . iminal Laws (Sir I Mackintosh) intended was now resorted to, he could not say. •Ile was sure . A:tithi o oo, of six ri, mtlii, as prescribed by loot s the Members sion was scarcely yet begun. Noble Lords had re - to move for the revival of the Committee,. which had, Mid ther e er was something at the bottom of it which it teas di...directin"( the Hen. and Learned Gentleman, laboured so vOted tti nei would be so touch employed in attending tat their carted to what rook plate - no former occasions '. a not intended that h e should understand. Why toe li c set oti v e ui in the last Sesalou to procure a revision of the Criurmal bear with I own concerns, and in taking steps for their future similar nature, but they did not take into view th e the Civil List voted as it heretofore had been ? The grant s no •re le-election, that they would be unable to attend to time of the year, or . * period of the Session, when DV sr a. iit . KI..N-R-LEY presents :Petition from the Hat lila-, NoblaLortsaid, it.would occupy. a cousWisable time : be mlifizo4 • i 6 • 5 1 • . • * • ' . . , •• . • a • • • • ', . . • ; . • . 111111\ - - . - • ' . ' • ~._~; i~ u 1 lit at II