Star. — London, England, 1826-04-26 00:00:00

'former debate, and he would candidly confess, that such - was the influence of the•legal ingenuity of disputation on his mind, that on that occasion his opinion vaccillat between both sides of the question—he was involved and entangled in the mazes of the law's ambiguity—. but having bis doubts on the policy of a change of the system, he thought it safer to give the benefit of thole dollies to the existing order of things. Since that period all his subsequent observation and reflection tended to confirm his doubts, and to convince him of the impolicy andinespediency of the proposed alteration. In sta;ing the impression which he felt on this subject, he must claim for himielf to be free from all professional prejudice. far as his own inlet est was concerned, the alteration now proposed would be extremely satisfactory, because it would lighten some part of that. which he now felt to be the most painful part of his duties. He meant the revision which he was often compelled to bulky of the sentence between the period at which it had been pronounced, and its execution, when te was compelled either to decide in a few hours, 'or to grant a respite which might give rise to hopes wholly without any reasonable foundation. He should not object to the alteration, because it was an innovation tip on a practice which had been sanctioned by years— for that would come with an ill grace indeed from one who had already more than once endeavoured to abolish Easton), which, if their antiquity could alone have re commended theirovrere entitled to the most absolute protection. Nor woes it because numerous authori ties were yet to be found in favour of the existing practice; for the same might be said of many others., of which he entirely disapproved. On both sides autlimities might be adduced, the weight and re spectaOility of which no one could doubt, and which placed the mind of any one who examined them, as Lord Bacon said, in colfluentiis (warm. He was ready to admit, that whatever would tend to elucidate the truth, to procure the acquittal of the innocent, and the conviction of the guilty, recommended its immedi ate adoption, and the alteration of the system which prevailed; but it was because he firmly believed the motion of the Host. Gentleman, if carried, would not tend to this, that he opposed it. One of the consideraione on which his opposition WAS founded was, although not in itself a very important one, yet not to be lost sight of—be meant the expense to the prisoners in paying fees to Counsel, and the delay which must beoccasioned in the administration of justice. He did not mean to be understood that any consideration of expense or delay ought of themsesehres to preclude an alteration like that now moved for, if it could be *two that justice was more fairly done in consequence; but be did not believe (and he bad means as accurate, perhaps, as any one, of knowing the fact if it were so) that any iejustice or even inconvenience was felt by the prisoners themselves under the actual practice. Every day almost petitions were presented to him on the be half of prisoners, which contained various complaints, but he did not remember ever to have seen one like those mentioned by his Hon. Friend. Various grounds were alleged by the prisoners, but none of them com plained that Counsel had not been heard on their behalf. The Hon. and Learned- Gentleman had alluded to the case of a man named Evans, who was tried at M in , chester : in that case it seemed the Judge who presided found it necessary to check the observations of Counsel, and to confine himself to facts only. One would have supposed that the prisoner in that case was convicted, or st by did the Hon. and Learned Member adduce it? but the fact was otherwise—he was acquitted. He (Mr. Peel) very much doubted whether the result would have been the same, if Counsel for the prisoner had been heard, and then a reply frorn'the Counsel for the prosecution. The example of Scotland had been. referred to in support of the Honourable and Learned Gentleman's proposition. It was said that in that country Counsel were allowed to speak for prisoners charged with felony. It should be recollected, that in Scotland unanimity was not required from a Jury.— A majority of eight to seven (the Juries were composed of fifteen) was sufficient to establish a verdict. The speech of a Counsel under such circumstances, was not likely to produce such detriment as when addressed to a Jury of twelve, who must be unanimous, and who might be induced to return a verdict contrary to the evidence by the persuasion of one of their number who should be captivated by the eloqoencp of the Counsel. .He was unwilling to risk any change of the present system, which not only secured the impartial administration of justice, but gave general satisfaction, if, tender the system which it was proposed to introduce, the Judge might be rendered less impartial, and the Jury les s free from influence than at present. (hi these grounds he was compelled testae a reluctant refusal to a proposition which had Mll4 before tke House recommended in so fait and temperate a manner. (Hear, Mar!) Mr. H. TWIN; spoke in favour of the motion. He contended that it was inconsistent to allow prisoners to be defended byCounsel on technical points, and not upon the matter of the indictment. The practice operated in favour of the guilty, and against the innocent. The awful situation in which a prisoner was placed on trial for life, paralyzed those mental facukies, the ends* pas session of which was necessary to enable him to make his defence. It was one of the fallacies which had passed current for 'centuries, the assertion that the Judge was Counsel for the prisoner. It might more properly be said that the dodge was counsel for the prosecution, for he read all the depositions against him before the trial commenced. Then how could a Jody act effectually as Counsel for a prisoner, supposing that he %idled ? It was not, however, in all cases that a judge desired the prisoner's acquittal. Sir Robert Atkins, in his com ments oa Lord Russell's trial, observed, that "1w knew what sort of Counsel judges were for prisoners." It was nut in political cases only that judges were likely to be biassed against prisoners. A judge might desire the , conviction ot a prisoner (roam a private knowledge of Ins character, and other causes. A judge, it was true, was bound to see no wrcng done to a prisoner; but he was equally bound to see no rroug stooe to the prose cutor. He might, therefore, be con sidared Gomel for ell parties. The case then came to this—that a priso ner had to compete with a banister. It was quite impossible that a prisoner could egfpctpally contend against the Reotenees of a Couusel, whose faeultins (be r ',units); no risk, having nothing . to lobe by the mine) ..%,. re completely at bis command, whilst the prisoner st; as subdued lie knowing that if he lost the victory he must also lo e his life—(Hear).--The Hon. and, owned Member then proceeded to Wiest that it was possible for the public prosecutor todeprive a prisoner of the ;elven tage of a defence by Counsel, by taking advaotage r f the tecl - ankelities of the roototes, and indicting bias for a felony instead of A inibriertwanour--( fleet). if a native of Scotland—wbere this hardship is an known—shouid meet any Member of the House next Iday, and ask, what aiduousprc,iblem in Legislation had been occupyi ng them this nig ht, what account would be render of hit di.qui a ition '. 4 le would hove to teed the inquirer, that the House had been Considering the question—whether, in a Court of Criminal Justice,. be fit to hear both side! equally; whether, theugh - in civil cases, where only property is at issue, both sides should be equally heard, there ought not not to be a difference where liberty and life were at state? (hear) Whether it might not be the best way of dealing with all prisoners who could not defend themselves, being 999 out of every thousand, to condemn them unheard ? He was glad the Right Hun. Secretary had disposed of the, discreditable argument about the consumption of time by the addresses of the Counsel. Whet ! could the country find time enough to accuse the prisoner, time enough to convict him, time enough to inflict the pu nishment of death uptut him, and could not find time to hear the reasons for his acquittal? The Right Hon Secretary had dealt with the argument in his usual manly tone, and he believed it would have no more effect on the House than he was sure it would have with the Judges of die land, who would not grudge their time for the justice of their country. He trusted the House would decide on no arguments drawn from per. soul convenience, or the darkling Actin's of the law, but on those grounds of broad reason and plain justice—opposed,indeed, but not yet shaken—which prescribe that we should give to the accused the same chances and means with his accuser—(block cheering). Mr. RICEIA RD MARTIN congratulated the House that this manure, which he himself had brought for ward three sever al times, was at last likely to be carried into effect. This would encourage him to commit the care of other Gentlemen other Bills which he had had the honour to propose, and he had little doubt but that they too would ultimately become the law of the land, notwithstanding be, in bringing them forward, had been ativnatisti as a promoter pf petty legislation. Mr. TINDAL said, from time immemorial the pri soner accused of felony bad possea.ed the right of being assisted by Counsel, u hose duty it was to cross.examine the witnesses against him, and to call the attention of the Judge to arty points which might arise in the pro gress of the trial ; the only thing complained of was, that he was prevented from replying to the speech of the Counsel for the prosecution. Now, what was the nature of that speech? In general practice, it was limited to a plain, simple statement of the facts of the case; and if an advocate %%eta beyond that, he was stopped by the Judge. The Judge, during the progress of the case, toolenotes of the evidence of the facts, which he afterwards read over to the dory, and directed them if they bad any doubt to give it in favour of lie prisoner. Now, what was asked by the adtiscates of the proposed change? That as in prosecutions for treason and misdemeanour Counsel should be heard in reply. The consequence of that change would be immediately to alter the character of the Counsel for the prosecution from a simple minister of justice to the advo cate of a party. Every one knew how different was the course pursued by Counsel under these different circum stances. In civil cases they were not very chary of in sinuation:or extreme statements to possess the minds of the Jury against what would follow from rivals of their own experience and talent. nits the personal feelings of tie advocate would be brought in,and the passions of the Jury excited against the prisoner; and instead of giving him new means of defence, they would be raising up a new arm witli which he would have to contend. The Hun. and Learned Member then read a passage from the work of M. C ttu, in which he describes. in terms of high admiration, the method of trial in cases of felony. The Hun. and Learne d Gen:kman concluded by saying be had made up his mind that the change would be any thing but a benefit, and hr called upon the Hottsvio pause before it came to a resolution which would do more thap any thing else to alter the tone and cha racter of the administration of criminal justice in this country. Lord ALTHOItP's principal reason for objecting to the present system was, that it gave so great an advantage to a prisoner of edu cation over one who was unedocated. Mr. SCARLET 7' said, that at one time he had been of opinion that this measure was not likely to be bene. ficial, but since then he had seen reason to change that opinion. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman adduced several cases which fell within his own practice and ex perience, in which the speech of Counsel would have elucidated the cases, to his certain knowledge, beyond the entire force of the evidence; in some of those cases the certainty would have been acquittal; in others con viction ; but in all of them the ends of justice would have been much more advanced than by the verdicts which were actually pronounced. As to the argument about wasting time, he thought that more time was wasted at present. The Counsel were compelled to set out the scope of their arguments by laboured cross-exa minations, and the Judge was by necessity disposed to indulge in their prolixity, because the form of proceed inn shut them out from the opponunity of setting forth those argnmests in a speech. Muck as he prized the solemn and deliberate course of justice in our crimisal coons, he did not think that the tendencies to acquit the prisoner, which prevailed in that jurisprudence, were any advantage to the ends of justice. At any race, be strongly recommended that tho Bill of his MM. Friend should be introduced and undergo deliberation in the Hsu& The SOLICITOR GENERAL, after pointing out the conflicting effects of the opinions given by the advocates for this bill, as to whether it would tend more to acquit the innocent or convict the guilty, declared that the whole measure embraced so formidable a novelty in the Constitution and Criminal Law of the land that it was impossible to entertain it. He admitted that there was an apparent inequality in the ground upon which prosecutor and prisoner stood with respect to each other. But this was made perfectly even ty the other ar rangements of a criminal trial, more especlally in the sympathy shown for the fate of the prisoner by the presiding Judge. Mr. BROUGHAM said, that he did not wean to detain the House at any length, but he wished to state mohortly as possible the reasons which induCed him to vote in support of the motion of his Hon. Friend. Be was free to acknowledge that he formerly had felt some doubts on the propriety of the measure, bat never saw the difficulties attending it in so formidable a light as some had done; end now, having euamined those difficulties, he had come to a conclusion favourable to the introduction of the Bill. The Right Hon. Se reretary of State said he had never known a claim to mercy preferred op the ground of improper proceed ings at the trial. It might be so; but no man who me, the fearful odds against a prisoner who had Counsel against hiss, as none for him, could avoid ying that justice minted something more. The most veinal question was, ought the country to be satisfied *th this part of the trios** law ? Was it intended to be said that calmness and dignity were observed in all al proceedings ? Points of law were often raised • ..Cooosol, with ocnuwkedl ig s that the Judge must de -4140 against them. May were not ohisetions made to decided in their favour,butmade to catch the attention of the Jury, whom Counsel had not the right of address iqg. By s deitirs ..tp per pima., the Amami practice, tiley weie eaceutagiog those complaints of the admiais- Dation of criminal ristice s which a great legislator wished to reform, rust did sot live to see amended.— Mot distinguished and great man objected to nothing mo a than the license givisa to Counsel to open it peole cation by a statement affects. Now, would a promo tor desire any thing better in a case, in which there was'a great deal ark ireemistainialeyidence, than a state ment of circumstances? Vie facts might b.- sn worep together, or placed in such *Eta position, as to make an impression too great perhaps to be afterwards removed by the observations and con3ments of Counsel for the prisoner. The s impl e f a ct s t hem s elves beca me a living witness, if he might so call it, against the prisoner.— With testect to the other topic Tiled against the ma tion, which he had before allud to, was , the alleged waste of time it would necessarily involve. S upposing it to be so, they were nit to we how much time was occupied in administering justice, but to see that it was administered. If the present number of Judges and Assizes could not get through the business in proper time, let the number of both be increased. It was upon these grounds that he should support the motion, and should the Bill be brought in, he should support it throughout. Mr. Secretary CANNING.—It cannot be expected, that alter wheat has been said, I should be able to throw any additional light upon the subject, and I merely rise to explain the grounds upon which I intend to give my vote against the motion. I have, Sir, attended with earnest anxiety to the arguments advanced by both parties on this subject, in the course of the debates, to which it has at different times given rise—debates dis tinguished above others, for the eloquence and candour with which the subject has been discussed. The Hon. and Learned Member who has just sat dawn, originally entertained the doubts, which I confess, still prevail on my mind. but which have, he says, been shaken by what he has heard and seen. If, in his long experience, the Hon. and Learned Member who has just sitdown, and the Hon. and Learned Member for Peterborough, have only now had their doubts shaken. it will be par doned in rue, an unlearned person, if I still entertain' mine. Whin these debates began, I prepared to listen with no other prejudice than that which an Englishman naturally feels for the institutions tb which he has bait accustomed to look up to with reverence, particularly , that part of our institutions which all na,tions allowed surpassed their own. After all I have heard, it appears to me the natural course is to oppose this Bill on the threshold ; a course which a tubject like this absolutety . requires. It is the principle I oppose. and not the do t tails ; and it seems to me, that in the state of doubt in which the greater part of us are, and which even the Hon: and Learned Gentleman opposite feels, it would, be best for us to oppose the introduction of this Bill ; not, however, precluding other debates on the subject. IF, in the course of those debates I should change my opi nion, I shall, of course, come to a different conclusion from what I do now, and shall agree to it. At present, having attended, with great care, to the arguments on both sides, it appears to me, that if not trim'', they preponderate in favour of the present system remainin unchanged. But if , they were only equal, I think it ought to remain unchanged till a stronger opinion is expressed by the House in favour of the alteration.. I confess I have heard no complaints made of the prod* system, and if there is any apprehension in the Hone% it is, as far as I can discover, of the change taking place. There is certainly no anxious desire to see it. If I were convinced of the necessity for the alteration, and I am sure I need not defend myself against the ordinary topic of not desiring the change on account of its being a change, but I say if I were convinced of the necessity of a change, I should .be ready to give my vote for it, cr, indeed, for any other which might be of advantage to the public. However, till the advantages in favour Hof the alteration predominate, it will be safer to main tain the present system. Whether it would produce more acquittals or convictions, is nothing to the pur pose, our object is the elucidation of truth —(Heer).— Wes are not to consider what the comparative amount of the acquittals and convictions would be, but how far we can- increase the amount of confidence in the people, of the justice and correctness of the sentences of the Judges of our Criminal Courts. I think the pro portion the acquittals bear to the trials, considering the various previous stages a case has to go through before corning to trial, affords a pretty fair presumption, that the practice did not fall to the disadvantage of the pri• soners. I mean to say, that the number of condemniiv tions shewed the prisoners had not such odds again* them as have been supposed. This fact does not change , the conviction I have upon my mind, that an alters. tion in the law is needless. But it would not merely be a change in the mode of conducting criminal trials of this particular description, but would operate upon the whole administration of criminal justice.— Upon that ground I alone should prefer maintaining things as they are, unless I am Jed to alter my opinion. I do not at present see any reason to alter it ; for, as 1 said before, the presumption is, that the convicts are mercifully dealt by, and it will not induce me to change my opinion to tell me that there is a chance of an inno cent man being punished, and our anxiety to let no doubtful case escape us. Upon the whole, I do not , think that there is any apprehension that justice will la any material degree suffer (and it will certainly besafer) if we remain where we are, till the Minds of the people were more made up about it, and till the call for the 'change shall prevail more generally than now. I shall, therefore, vote against the introduction of the Bill us amine, as it would be unfair to lead the Honourable and Learned Member into a discussion hereafter by ad witting it now. Ido not oppose the introduction of the Bill, I can *Sure the Hon. Gentleman, from any feeling of hostility, for I, Wok he has 'acted property in introducing it; but I oppose # limply on tlp.grounds I have before stated. 1 Mr. DEN Id ?N ettcongly supported the motion, taking credit to !for two eepverta to ids view of the question. Every Hem- was allowed to use his own discretioo. He ib.ught that when a man's life was its danger he should not be deprived of a prielieP which would not be denied Wm if it was a tenement of is a year which was a stake. The gallery was thee cleared for a division; when there appeared For the Modal, Sc I Against it, M.—Majority, 60. Mr. Secretary PEEL moved that the Petty Larceny Bill be read again that day three months.—Agreinl te. The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at Two &Cum Yesterday afternoon, the Deputy• Governor of that Bank of England had sa interview with the Kul of Livaaeoot. at his house in Whitehall. The Cortami,sioners for building dditional churches had a meeting yesterday at their Warm in Parliament-street. The Archbishop of CA Ilszasuav sad the Bishop of Lennon were present. The fight between Ddtch S drt and (limy Cooper took place yesterday, at Grape, opposite Gravesend, ter 50 soy. Both men are well known in the ring as aisle erateaees, girl* bad fought many battles. Harry dolt and 131e.k ereesitleil and Jern Ward and the brother of Coopir Il lted for lilMs. tiag was 2 to I op Sass, said di. rusk of WI bud* felt ifswill4 the odds. isrhe Fes let the Nat reap& Irtte wag lutedlittle mere than a quart er ot an hour. Willow Herring. an Irish labourer, was brought ktfoCe tlw AJkrWt 44 %Olt/ arleltiscilair egged iv ith hsvino nearly murdered his wife. t ?Owner did set attempt to say an ything in hie detente, and be was Amended tot fart bet mum& h nation nest Saturday. INDIA. ADMIRALTY MICE, Aram la, 11111. espy are Letter from Csnimodore Sir jam's . Brisbane, C. B no aishaMillooss Croksr, Esq. dated on board the Hon. Company's steam-vessel Diana, above Prow, on the Irawaddy, the ad • Dee. 183.5: Sta—The enemy having approached Prome in lasge bodies of men, evidently with the intention of drawing a line of circumvallation round the British position, I beg you will be pleased to inform the Lords Commis sioners of the Admiralty, that the Commander of tfie Forces moved out on the Ist instant, for the purpme of attacking the left column, a short distance in the in terior, and requested that I would, at the same time, make a diversion in his favour, by engaging the enemy's centre position at Pagoda Point, with the flotilla under my immediate command. It is extremely strong, both by nature and art, and is situated on the left bank of the river, a few miles in advance of Prolix. I am happy to say that the result of these arrangeinents was de cidedly favourable; the enemy's left column, consisting of ablaut 14,000 men, being completely overthrown, their ordnance and the whole of their commissariat captured, and a heavy loss of men. The next day (yesterday) the Major-General determined on following up the blow by an attack upon Pagoda Point, the object of the fat mer diversion ; the flotilla covering the advance of the army along the shore. After a cannonading of several hours, the troops rushed forward to the assault, overcame the natural obstacles which presented them selves, and carried the position in the most gallant style. The flotilla at the same time pushed en up the river, and captured the whole of the enemy's boats (amounting to about three hundred), together with several guns, four hundred muskets, and a I irge quantity of stores. I have much satisfaction in stating, that the whole of the officers and men employed in the flotilla conducted themselves throughout this service in a manner that reflects the highest credit on each individual, composed as this force is of various establishments. The officers of the Hon. Company's Marine vied with those of the Royal Navy in gallantry and exertion. captain chada g of the Alligator, who commanded the light division, displayed the same zeal, judgment, and orrepidity, which have characterised his conduct since the opera tions in this quaker began. I have, however, the painful duty of announcing the death of Captain .1. F. Dawson, of the Arachne, whose high professional character had induced me so recently to promote him to the rank of ' Commander. The gallantry of this much-lamented _officer was conspicuous on all occasions, inviting, by his example, the exertions of all under his direction: he fell just as success had crowned our efforts. • I cannot dose this letter without expressing my ad miration of the steadiness, good order, and discipline of the troops in advancing along a line of m 4rch, inter sected with thick jungle, and a succession of intrench meats, until the storming took place. The two arms of his Majesty's service are in full and hearty co. operation for the objects of the present expedition ; and every success may be hoped for from the perseverance and resolution of Sir Archibald Campbell, the distils. guisbed Commander of the Forces. 1 have the honour to be, ate. (Signed) JAMBS BRISBANE, Commodarm =TRACT Of A LATTER. FROM Alt OFFICER. . 44 Camp lefore Baturpore, Dee. IS, nat. . . " Here we are laying siege to the far-famed Bhurt pore which thwarted Lord Like's most strenuous eff tits to ta ke it in 1805, and created the strongest s-nsations in England at the time I . WAS bidding you all farewell. Little did I then imagine that I should command a corps forming part of the force which was next to gn against this celebrated and formidable fortress ; but as oar means are very far superior to those pouessed by the former assailants, our expectations of success are pro portionably great. Lord Cnmbermere is here in per. son, with all his staff, they havinic all come up by post for that purpose. As yet, parties for reconnoitering the place (which is about eight miles in circumference) are the only duties which have been called for; these chiefly consist of cavalry, who have occa. sionally fallen in with bodies of the enemy's bone, of whom a few only have been cut up. The bat. teries are expected to open in the course of a week, when it is probable we shall all have enough to do. My will is made, so that in the event of any accident befalling me, nothing may he left undone which I might wishotherwise. We marched from Caw npore on the 10th of November, arrived at Agrah on the 3d instAaving waited about five days, a march on the other side of it, in consequence of Lord Combermere's not having time to complete his arrangements ; were reviewed by his Lordship on the 4th ; left Agrah on the 10Th; and ar rived at Bhurtpore on the 13th. It will, perhaps, syr. prise you to learn, that in the whole army ours is the only corps commanded by a Captain. In a few months, however, I expect to be deprived of this honour, which I have had the accidental good fortune to enjoy since June last." FROM THI CALCUTTA GOVILANAIANT CIAUTTII 1 MA RT. POLITICAL DEPARTMENT, Dac. 50, 1525. The following Capin of Dtchee received from Major-General Sir Archibald Catnpbet, K.C.B. and K.C.T.S. are herewith published for general inforniation TO 0201= swnwes, =Q. BROILBTAIIIT TO GOTERNMENT, PSLITMAL DIPART3STWT, &C. 101? WiLLIME. Sin—The enemy, in closing in upon our front, has been unremitting in his endeavours to intercept our com munication with Rangoon. Large bodies of ttoops for this service have lately passed oar flanks on both sides of the Irrawaddy, and the State of that river, covered, .as ill has lately been, with large and valuable convoys -of gores and treasure, has necessarily caused me much moiety, and retarded my moving forward. Sliudoun Mew and the Sarrauddy districts have been overrun by there itinerant bands, and I have been under the necessity of detaching Lieutenant Colonel Godwin, with a strong detachment, for the purpose of driving the enemy from Shudonn, and, if possible of surprising parties he might have in that n,ighb ourhood. Oa the night of the 24th, the Lieutenant Colonel marched , to Shucioun, but the enemy, receiving intelligence of his approach, Red to the interior, and the detachment returned to quarters, after clearing the left bank of the river for 15 miles below Prome. Oa the western bank I deemed it of importance to retain possession of Pscioun-Mew, and for tot purpose stationed 100 men of his Maj esty's Royal %meat, and 100 of the nth Madras Native Infantry, $t that place, under the command of Captain Dean, pf the Royals, and supported On the river by a divi iois of t h e flotilla, ender the command of I t ieummaiht Kellet t * the Navy. This party was rapeoteilly attacked by the enemy in great force, and Use oneritorkee conduct of bath officeis and men, as detailaqkin the enclosed cop* pileups Trost Capons Dail% will.' ant cettMn, obtain for theta the a pprobscism of the Rt. Hon. the .Gorier. . (icamal in Commit. lIRCIIIIT Ala