Star. — London, England, 1805-06-12 00:00:00

on which I fee additional ground of aectsfatiott, an 4 on which I am anxious to have additional light.— The propofition which I originally made was that . Lord Melville fhould be difmiffed from all offices of troll and confidence. Inflead of this the Noble Lord was allowed to withdraw himfelf and to refign. The Right Hon. Gentleman afterwards at a lubfequent period, oppofed the propofal for dif sniffing him from his Majefty's Councils forever, and for expunging his name of the Council Roll; and he was finally allowed again to withdraw, not in conk coience of a vote of the Houfe, but by the AR of the Sovereign, on the recommendation of the Right lion. Gentleman, in confeqaence of a dread of the Refolution of the Houk. After what has now come oot, I think it impoffible not to vote fee an impeach ment or tome criminal proceeding againh Lord sale. There never was a Committee in which there •.,: as more unanimity as to the evidence received— and circumhances did come ontbefore that Commit tee which unqueflionably lead me to fay' and to be lieve that Lord Melville did participate in the tale of the public money. ft may befaid "it Was not the objeCt of the Committee to make any . ditiovery of this kind, and therefore yon are not entitled to gn on any thing which there came out." This I can never agree to. Suppling it were referred to a Solicitor to look into the affairs of his employer, particularly in fo far as his Steward had' (hewn any partiality to par ticular perfons, it being at the fame time Rated that corruption was by no means mean to he attributed to the Steward, and that in the cootie of the invehi gation it Mould come out that the Steward bad been guilty of partiality, from corrupt motives, would' it not be the duty of the Solicitor to Rate this difeoves y to his employer ? In like manner, it is not my duty, when a point of this nature comes out incidentally before a Committee to whom the condo& of Lord Melville in other points conneßed with the charge is referred, to fay that he ought to be impeached ? But I lapel we are nail only on the very verge and brink of the difcovery. But as from the paring of a giant's I nail we may be prefumed to form tome idea of his nature, fl from the minute difcoveries which we have )et been enabled to make, we may, I think, form fume trifling notion of the enormity of the fyr tern which has been praeifed. I (hall therefore re.' since what I have to fay to three - diflina heads. Pura, The grofs violation of the law and high breach of ditty incurred by Lord Melville, in his counieing at, the breach of an Aa of l'.ll-liament, of which he him. tell had beta the framer.— Secondly, Lord Melville's participation in the• emoluments arifing from that breach of an Aft of Parliament. On this head, I pledged myfelf to certain friends and relatives of the Noble Lord, to bring forward his condo& whenever I fhould fee reafon fo to do. I mean, therefore, this night, to redeem my pledge on that head.— Thirdly, I mean farther to thew that he praaifed an impofition and fraud on the public by contriving, under falfe pretences, to get an acquittance of the debt due by Jellicoe. As to the first, the Noble Lord himfelf confeffes that it may be a violatisn (tithe law, but it is not a grofs violation. I (hall not attempt :o enter into any fuch nicety of diflinCtion. It is Ili& cient for me to fay, that the Noble Lord has admit• ted that he did connive at this mifapplication by Trot ter. But he Pays it was neceffary to do fo to a cer. twin extent, and the permiftiow he gave was limited. I maintain, however, that it was unlimited. That Mr. Trotter did actually draw to the extent of a million at a time, and that he might have drawn to any extent. One thing I charge him with, that it was put beyond his own controul. It was pot into the houfe of Coutts, and might be drawn out from thence is Trotter pleafed. lint what was added to this in the Seletl Committee ? Not that he had given this power to Trotter alone, but that Trotter had alto de legated a fimilar power to Whim, with whom, on his going to Scotland, he left blank drafts to be filled up to any amount. Wilton again might have dejegated this power to fame other fulxirdinate perfon, and to it might have gone through all the petty clerks in the office. I have already declared my opinion that the Right Hon. Gentleman (Canning), was to blame in not difmitling Wilton; I mutt now do that Gentle man the juffice to fay, that no perfon could have be haved better or more correCtly before the Committee, and that I underhand his character in'the office to be without blame. Having heard fo, I think it but fair to Rate it. But hill I mutt again repeat that his re futing to anfwer queftions before the Naval Commit tionets, did him nd credit, and that it ought to have been marked by fotne puni(hment. The Noble Lord tad faid, that till this period he had had no oppor tunity of making his defence. He forgets, however, that he was examined before the Commiffioners of Naval Enquiry on oath, when he might' bare given 'any explanation he thought'neceffary ; and that when the Report was putliffied, and notice of the Motion . Liven, he had then the lam. opportunity of being heard or, he hail this day. The Noble Lord teems to think the AR not fo good or valid as the Paymaf ter of the Forces' Bill, becaufe it is not fu long.— But whole fault was that, but the fault of the Noble Lord who brought in the Bill ?With re'ard to Trot tet, the'Noble Lord has faid fame very extraordinary things, leading us to believe that he is not a perfon to be trolled. He would make us believe that Trotter bad never great fume in his hands. He had indeed tome money; but it woo limited and inconfiderable.— Mut does not the Noble Lord know'that Willon on one occafion drew out ao,oool. for a fervice alltnled to this night ?—Then comes a moll eitraordinary admiflion of the Noble Lord: Ile had fame idea that Mr. Trotter might make tome • (mall r •tit from the occafional fmall flanslying at his Banket's ; but this he was led to fuppofe from his being a Seotfman, and • knowing the prattice of the Banks and Bankers at Edinburgh.—The Noble Load is not fo ignorant of tranfaßions of the kind in this country as not to know—he mull have known well that it was not cuflomary for Coutts, for Drummond, or any other Banker to make allowances for any ordinary fums remaining in their hands, but that fuch allowances were only made on large and ex traordinary balances. Yet the very next moment after, the Noble Lord has thus induced us to believe that he has been deceived by Trotter, he loads him with panegyrics. Trotter, no doubt, did give con fufed anfwers before the Committee. He was aflced, in different fhapes' as to Lord Melville's participa tion, and be uniformly refuted to anfwer.—Wnold au man, however, credit the affection, or would even I.3ed Melville himfelf pretend to fay, that he believ ed that from the mode of mixing the accounts it was . ~ impoikble to tkllingtiifh his private rboitej ricon that' fhnlitd have ihetvn that the greater pin of the too reallY 'belonging to the public ? The affertion is ney 101 l through Jellicoe had been balances left • ir. fundamentally and paipably falk. Trotter is the his hands during the Odminiftration of Lord Mel ', creature of public money ; his property is nothing vine's predeeeffors, as had been aliened. Did he Co?' elfe. Whit was he when Loid M. firft found him ? Before the Noble Lord, the deficiency had never l a Clerk in Somertet Houk: tie raifed him to a ft= amounted to more than 70001. and had been reduced tuation of gaol. a year. bn this falary he contrives. to 9001. When his Lurdatip came into office. Un to live in cafe and affluence, and is alinoß imtnedi- der Lord Melville It increafed, at one time, to i ately able to lend Lord Melville firms to any extent, 37,0001. The whole deficiency, therefore, was his and with Out interell. lf; as the Noble Lord would Lordfilip's, except 9001. for which his predecellors reprefent, there was a neceffity for haying force part were anfwerable. B u t w h c h the defi c i e ncy i s fi na tly Of the money in a banker ' s hand, why n o t c o me for announced, was the utmoft done to recover the ho- Ward with the fad and have the law altered ? In lance from Jellicoe's affairs ? From um up to ilko point of Loft, however, it was ithpoflible that the Corns no tneafures were at:lively taken for that purpofe.— to which he had alluded, of fourteen &Wings, and The flubs too that had been paid prior to the warrant loch like; could ,be paid in any way but out of the of the privy feat were paid to his Lordfhip's account, iron circa, which alone ought to be ufed for the faudl Ind no part placed to that of his prednefios ; and payments of the office. eel. difcovered afterwards and obtained from Jelli- The Honourable Gentleman then proceeded to eon's effeas were paid—to Whom ?--to the public Chew that though it was impoflible to fay what the treefury ? No ! they went to pay the fees of the tors to the •public from this fyltem Bad been, one warrant granted to his Lordfhip 1 So that he did not article which could not be difputed inuft be efteenled, pay elven for the paper of his title deed!. After all, the additional Calory given to the Noble Lord for the Right Honourable Gentleman fhould have (hewn the difcharge of a duty, which he had undertaken his precedents for acquittance in this cafe. If .it de and violated. At firft Trotter pretended' to recol. manded acquittance in equity, the method Should lea nothing. Afterwards, however, be began to grow have been ntherwife. This was exenfed by no pre a little better, and, like a man awoke from a dream, cedent. The Noble Lord had Paid much to induce to recoiled not more than had happened, as the the Houfe to believe in a Rory he had made of hi: Noble Lord would rem-dent, butTuch parts only as preferences of one 40001. per annum before another. by degrees came into his mind. What was the na lowas plain, however, that his Lordfhip always total prefumption kom all that had occurred t Was looked upon the Treafurerfhip of the Nato , as a fine it not that Lord Melville had participated ? And cure. and a place for his private emolument. He if he had not, how could that Houk or the pub. had Paid that place was always defigned to go with tic ever be penliaded of his innocence till be came the Board of Controul. That was a linguist and to a trial? On what principle could the burning hardy affertion. But if fo, why . has not the Noble and deflioying of books and vouchers be otherwife Lord oppofite to him ( Lord Caftlereagh) the Tree. accounted for ? The Noble Lord Complained of the furerthip of the Navy ? Lord Melville held various deceitfulnefs of memory ; but ought not this totive places of emolument, and they are torn into frog induced him to cave the vouchers. They did not ' meets, and fcattered about among many, all of whonC concern the Noble Lord and Trotter alone. The he mia fuppofe to be content. Then why was hie public was a third party interelled in them, with- Lordfhip to hold the Treafurerfhip of the Navy' out 'whore knowledge they ought not to have been merely for private emolument ? His Lordlhip had dellroyed. There circurnaances were conlidetably' formerly, and now talked of retirement from the aggravated by the evidence before the Committee, cares and hazards of (tate. Yet on the firft glimpfe and by the unbluthing effrontery with which the of the Right Honourable Gentleman Near him return• Noble Lord had this night declared, that certain ing to office. he hurries totown, from his beloved and parts of the films with which he flood charged were praifed retirement, with forty or fifty proxies in his expended in fervices which he would never explain. pocket, tornake his path more fecure and pleafant ; The clanfe in the releafe too rendered every thing never once reconciling that he was old or infirm, or dottbly fufpicious. It was confered by all to be un- tick of what he had been doing for fo many .ye,ao. utoot—and the time at which it was executed being No: in this return will he let go the Treafiner. welly at the time when the Commillioners of Naval (hip of the Navy ; but holds it fait, as the faleft Inquiry were in the midi! of their refearches. The means of private e-nolument : and therefore he amid bond indeed might not be a great fpecimen of caution, give no degree of credit to his Lordihip's protefta but it was a fortunate ever-anxiety which often at- Lions of preference to places on motives of public traded-thole who wifhed to be fecure of concealing duty. Of the punilhment his Lordfbip had already their fraud. The circumftance too of his having de- received, he would only now fay, he fhould have for. eeived the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Pitt) likewife borne if no new matter had incidentally come out went tlrnngly to confirm the guilt oldie Noble Lord, in the &lea Committee. But it was not for punifh who, it appeared, kept the holioefs a profound ferret ment or conviaion that he c lied on the Houk. He from the Right Hon. Gentleman. It was not a fen.' required only that Lord Melville be put on his bid. teoce of condemnation that he demanded againft His friends had formerly called for trial, and lo•d the Noble Lord, it was merely the finding a Bill even rudely reproached the majority of the Hoiiie agaitilt him for the purpofe of bringing him to trial.- with denying it He had therefore expeaed that Had he ban free from participation, what would the firft notice of an impeachment would have been have been his conduit towards Trotter who re- joined by his friends with acclamation. He now Tufed to (peak before the Commiflioners ? Would called (In every friend of Lord Melville to put him he not have infifted on his being explicit, and on on his trial. He had been acetifed of cruelty ; but his not allowing his charailer to be traduced by be would fay, this was no cruelty. And lie hoped Trotter's filence ? How was it poffible for the it would be found, he had not that day departed Noble Lord to pretend that he did not know froth the fair and jug motives that induced him firft that Trotter was the lender of the 00,0001. Übe bad to bring the fubjea before the Houk. It might be not been In, mull he not have known it ? Mug he raid, that this was a time of too great difficulty fur not have given fecurities and executed deeds in fa- impeochment ; that the enemy we had to contend your of the lenders This was in itfelf an accommo- with was wife, and our own Minifters weak and in. dation, though indeed not to the full extent. For capable ; and that every hand fhould be employed in here there was the laving of (lamp •, Sec. If the No- turning afide the danger which threatens us. He ble Lord felt his charaaer and conduct to be as clear deemed it unfortimate that the Houfe mull be fn oc. and unfpotted as he would reprefent, a nd to defcend copied with fuch an enemy, and fo poorly provided fair to pofterity, lie would court rather than avoid with wifdom at home. But there was no trial for inveffigation. If his friends aid relatives had any great crimes but in the moment of deteaimt. If regard for him, they would with to fee• him cleared they are ever Coffered to pals away without exami by his Peers. It was knisoffible the with he had ex- nation and punilhment, the public feeling refpcaing p: cried, of (landing well in the eyes of pollerity, them calm* be revived. There is fomething in the could ever be realifed without a trial. But what does human helot that revolts at that, and the fault of lots the Noble Lord fay? 6 , lam innocent,. but do not try of time is that of the party &mired. It is his con me." He rays pofterity will acquit him, and ;cet he dud that creates the neceflity, and the nation, fo cir renders it impoffible by his own ad. even if he mould cumilanced, holes more by forbearing to profecute. be innocent, that pollerity amulet have the- power of than by any length of trial. But the impeachment doing him juftice. If he fucceeded in impre (l i ng on need not occupy fo much time as was apprehended. the Houfe even to the extent of the tenth. part of The trial of Lord Macclesfield, the fentence being what he felt on the Inkier), they mull agree in full- palled, occupied only sy days; and he would pledge potting hi's motion for an impeachment againft the himfelf, that the trial of Lord Melville need not take Noble Lord. up more. The grcatnefs of the expence might elm() be He now came to the confideration of the third (Melted to. But fuch a trial would be real economy in charge he urged againft the Noble Lnrd. He charg- a nation 'hooted as this is. The country, if not too ed his Lordthip with having obtained 24,0001. from poor to be robbed, is not too poor to demand joftice. the public, on falfe Ilatements, in the affair of Jelli- Nor can any expeoce be too great, to prove Lord con's balances. That perfon had been in the habit Melville's itnecence , if that was to:be the refult.— of leaving hit accounts deficient. Lord Melville at His Lordfhip had dwelt on his greatnefs; he had beefs length fuipeeted the caufe ; and had he then attend- raifed to arioNer Houfe of higher dignity than this ; ed to the Emotion and propofal of that unfortunate that he had not been railed to that dignity by a Mo man, he might have lived to an old age with honour narch whom he had deceived and betrayed, was an to his family, and the enjoyment of race of mind. objea worthy of being afcertained. He was a new Ile had been tempted by his fituation into conrfes Peer, railed to that dignity under a Minilter, now a fatal to his honour and hrappinefs. Every thing that Member alto of the fame Houfe (Lord Stdmouth), of came out relative to hio, (hewed that be had been whom he would fay, he never would have advifed his tempted to ufe money I}ing, by negligence, too long Majvfty to raife Lord Melville to that dignity, had he in Ins hand. What ought Lord Melville to have known of the tranfaaions now known to the Houle done when he difcovered the real cafe ?He ought to of Commons. But if a Peer is difgraced by his prac , have fufpended Jellicoe, and to have taken recurities tices, it ought to be known to that Houk that he is I o ff ered him for the repayment of the deficiency. Belt a difgr aced man. Such a charaaer is not meant to lie p• J .-flitted the abufe to go on, and the 'refult was tit there. He concluded by ohferving, that he would moil unfortunate. He had too much reafon to fear not move the articles of impeachment now, but would the Noble Lord hod not done this from p;iy for Jel- content liimfelf at prefent with moving, "That Henry licoc. It was rather to be prefumed, he had dread- Lord Vireo= Melville be impeached of high crimes ed that Jellicoe might hare laid to him, if too ri- and tnifdemeanors." I 1 gidly punned. o that which thou judge% 'thou doll Mr. NATHANIEL BOND faid, he was anxious.' commit thyfelt." A Right Honourable Gentleman t o Rate his opinion in a few words to the Honk.' opposite to him (Me. G. ilofe ) had given an evidence becoode he did not entirely approve the motion of the l on this fubjea, of a finurifhing and 'dangerous de- Honourable Gentleman, although he viewed the con. feription, very oppofite to the Wool character of that dna of the Noble Lord with no different feelings.— Gentleman. No man, in general, could be more His intention was to move an amendment to the mo. prudent or fagacious in his anfwors. Mcoofyllables tion of the Honourable Gentleman; and he ihould were frequent with him in all difficult cafes. And if begin by reviewing the proceedings already powered ihe were to be afked fur an antidote for-the fineft or adopted by the Houfe. He could not agree with fpeech ever made in the Houfe of Commons, he the ref - au:ions firft propnfed by the Hon. Gentleman, Should recommend an anfwer from that Right Ho- becaufe he thought they were premature. He does noorable Gentleman. Yet, for once, he gives a No. not now think them too thong, but full inquiry rid and reafoning anfwer. He lays, it was an ad of ought to have preceded them. If inqui, y had been bate _lattice to grant the warrant ; and be would then made, not only would the cenfures of that Ronk have granted it even to an enemy—(4 ery If Agar!) been- without reproach, but the Houk would not now Heoheard the Right Honourable Gentleman's offer- have to fit on the prefent queflion, for junice might' [ tion ; but would he have done Co to a pelitical ear by this time have been attained. Th e re fi lutions of I my ?Th e Ri g ht Honourable Gentleman *mild have! the Hon. Gentleman had thrown the Houfe into em- hewn the reams for smiting the warm& klei barratiments, Which It would be dithcltilt to get ridof, and which were at Bra wholly anneceffary. The mea. Aire of infiituting a Committee to mcpi;re into the con • •ud of Lard Melville , although late in being adopted by the Honourable Gentleman, Ind his entire silo orobation.; and that commuting of the Courfnittee, reftriding its powers, lie could not condemn in -, a ) thong terms. That the Committee, however. had produced infinite tasit was con ltituted, wa• plain, and he raj • In the event. In the quellion of a civil or a crialinal profircution tgainft Lord Mel. rile he hid voted fur the former, bec rule he could not ',.:sieve the censure. of the Houle vas no calamity, ,r the other misfortunes which fell on the Nobt. Lord, was no puniffiment The cpteffon now • •to longer the fame. The new Nene- introduced by the ingoiry of the Seidl Committee, •:as mate rially criminal, and more highly crimin tr than what was before the Houfe anterior to the fittir.g of the Committee. That evidence clearly, in his mind, , proved the participation of Lord MelvOle. V, • ous fumy of the public money were traced into r• s hands. Could any one doubt of participation aft r that ? He had raid that ten thoufand pounds, the firil deficiency, was employed in Scotland, while he WS his Majefiy's confidential advifer' for that coun try, in fervices, a declaration of which no power on earth lhouli wring from him. He would afk, is that an anfwer to fuch a charge ? (a e,7 of beai;4ear.) What bounds, and what is the fort of ufe that may not be made of public money, if fuch can be received? Could it be a loan that employed this money ? But of what nature that it cannot fince he declared ? He did not know how much more of the money Lord M. meant to account for in this fecret let - vice of Scotland. What he accufes him of however is, tbac he connived at the employment of the public money for Mr:Trot ter's private ufe, and that large rums came to his hands for purpofes he ill not own. It is tin mattes that Lord Melville did not (if it was fr) participa'e in any particular profit of a job at the Stock Ex. change, or elfewhere. His Lordfltip's explanation to Mr. Pitt of the information given to his Right Hon. Friend, by Mr. Raikes, is a high aggravation of his fault. He explains the firms to be merely fuch as mutt make certain (mall payments. He Pays the rumour is falfe in its meaning. No blame is to be imputed to his Right • Hon. Friend. lie was deceived ; and he was in a fftuation in which he could do nothing, if there were not fome in whom he mull place an implicit confidence. Lard Melville, in the anfwer refpeding 'Raikes' intimation, knew he was praffiiing a fraud upon his friend to abut out inquit y, which, however, has now reached the fohjed of the releafe, and made the participation Rill more clear. The dates of the Precept, of the Return, and of the Releafe, mull (hew its purpofes. The Releafe is executed ; and Trotter burns their account books, their papers, all their do cuments, and vouchers. If Lord Melville is capable olcsplaining all there tranfadions, he is the molt un fortunate and ill fated of men. Till explained, how 'ever, they are only to be taken as ground of fufpicion, to call on his Lordihip to explain. He would in jultice, both to the Noble Lord and the Mule, con. tribute by his vote to fend him to anfwer for his conduit. He would recommend that this be done by a criminal profecution before a jury. The fame end would be attained more fpledily, and more 'finely ; and if it were argued that there is more dig nity in impeachment, he would fay the other is more lenient, and equally jolt. Nathing is fo liok liable to objection as our Criminal Courts. If a hittory may be made of the occafional violence of impeach. ments, it is not fo with our Criminal Courts. He thought the ground of accufation againft Lord Melville fufficient for either mode of proceeding; and if his amendment was rejected, he mull vote for the impeachment. But he would recommend to the Gentlemen of the other fide to confiner the value of having a large majority, or if they eves fail in a mea. fore of accusation-, in having a large number with them. He concluded by moving, as an amendment, s , That the Attorney General be directed to profe. cute Henry Lord Vifconnt Melville criminally, for the offences Rated in the Reports of the Naval Com. miffioners, and the Selec Committee ; and to fuf pend the civil adion already ordered by the Houfe, till the other is determined." Mr. WHITBREAD obfer•ed, in explanation, that he meant to prt•pofe the fufpenfion of the civil fuit, if the impeachment atonic, be carried. _ _ _ The Islfi#Eß of the ROLLS argued againft the motion for a Criminal Proceeding. He Paid Lord Melville had already been punifhed by the votes of that Houfe : he had been deprived of the high office which he held, and his name had been erafed from the Privy Council ; yet he was now to be tried over again, and pur.ilbed for the fame offence. No propofitions were made for the purpofe of refcind ing the Refolutions that had been paffed againft Lord Melville, nor tar petitioning the King to re ' (lore him in cafe of acquittal. When an applica tion had been made by the . Houfe of Commons to remove Lord Somers and two others from their time. tions, the King did not conrly, becaufe a contrary addrefs was prefented by the Lords. Betides, the Commons had at the fame time been palling votes of punifhment againtl him. This proceeding on the part of the Lommons was highly cenfured by Burnett the hitlorian. The only new point brought before the public in this bufinefs was, the releafe given by Lord Meiville to Mr. Trotter; and he would himtelf have executed fuch a thing under firniAr circuntilances. In the proceedings between the Noble Lord and Mr. Trotter, the only thing that could appear on evidence was, thatothe latter made a certain ufe of the Public Money which Lord Mel ville was nut appliird of. This proceeding againft 1 . Lord Melville could not be for the fake of example ; becanfe he was convinced that no man placed. in th.t lituation held by Lord Melville would ever again brave the public yoke, and do any thing charged again(' the prefent pat ties. So far as regarded ex. ample and jnftice the Noble Lord was alteady fit& ciently . punilhed. Before, therefore, he fent him to trial, be mull fee a tircag cafe of necaty and expe diency made out. Lot d TEMPI. E differed entirelyfrom the Leaned Gentleman who ipoke La. He Paid the King could not keep Lord Melville in his offices pending an im. peachment. The Cale of Lord Somers was different : for there the Houfe of ConWtions voted an Impeach went before they prefented the addrefs to the King ' It was laid that.only one new thing came oat fence the appointment of the late Commiffioners. Did not fomething new come out that very day ? Did not Lord Melville hintfelf avow that the public =my MOM