Star. — London, England, 1815-05-27 00:00:00

was the extent of that description of force, and what was the value of the aid which they were likely to receive from us. Having stated the force of the gnat powers, he did not wish to enter .into a statement of the force of each subordinate power. Considering Great Britain and Holland separately, he would esti mate the other powers together--some of them would bring considerable forces into the field r—Ba vat ia, for instance, had an army of 60,000 men, of the very best description. The force which that rower, with Wirtem'oerg, Baden, Hesse, Saxony, the . hanse Towns, and the small States on the Rhine, would bring into the field, amounted to 150,000 men, 'orsides wha: was already stated. That collective • tinss was ;edependent of the force of the three great • pciwers, and the force of Great Britain and Holland. The British force would be - 50,090 men, and the Xing of the Netherlands was to furnish an equal amount cf 50,000 men to the Confedertscy.. There were actually 30,000 of them in service and . in the held, and the remainder of the force was in a state of • preparation and • was 'expected to be'soon • rattly.-- the:refore, the whole collective . inree— • Austria • • ii:0,000 Russl% • 445,0t1x • Pritsviii . • - - • - 536.000 (7nlkciive States of Germany Great Briraln - Holland 150 000 50,000 50,000 • i,ot pa) It farmed a total of one million and eleven thOusand men exclusive sif the army of the Emperor of Russia assembled on tl4 frouti. rs of his dominions, and ready to act inssase of exigency. He had been asked across the table (by Mi. Linkes, we believe), %slim r.dditioual subsidy' was to be paid to the other States? The• House were aware that we were bound to fur rash 10,000 men, or to advance a subsidy to the other Powers for the numbers in which we might be deficient. If we furnished only .50,000 men, we had to pay for 10Q,000 men, according to the rate in the Schedule of the Treaty cf Chaumont. This amount ed to 5e2400,000. We should apply that sum in aid of the citufederacy, in such a. manner as would be Calculated to produce the most satisfaction among them. By distributing this sum among them, we sh-uld give for the 150,000 men of the smaller States nearly the same as was paid to the great Powers, WAS Jti 1. 2s. a min. .This, although an in considi-rable portion of the expense of bringing their tt orps into the field, would serve as a considerable encouragemer,t. and would remove any feeling that aeme were preferred and others neglected. It might i.e verhaps, by some, that our own genuine and national efforts should be greater in this contest ; hilt ttnnt 'be manner in which our force was at pre. Sent distributed, we could not expect to bring more in a the field. The country, however, was greatly a g Cher, in a pecuniary point of view, by this commu .tion of the service. He well knew that the glory winch ,he country &rived from the creation and ex crams of a g illant army was incalculablei but our army, with all itS merits, was not the cheapest in Zurope. it required in this country from £6O to '.,c70 to bring each man into the Geld—so that on a Principle of producing the greatest amount of eau eons for the smallest sum of money, this commuta. Lion was very advantageous for us. The House .Would he aware that Sit. tts. a man, which was the rate paid to the great Powers, was exceedingly mo derate. compared with former subsidiary allowances. The Subsidy to Sweden was calculated at £4O a Man. Even the subsidy of 11.800,000 to Prussia, in )794, for 60,060 men, was 030 a man. In no other ease were it ever so low is on the. present ece,asion ; it formed but a small proportion of the whole charge of rendering those armies moveable. Formerly we had given sums in addition to the subsidy to put the armies in movement. It was ctistoroary.to give a friendly care ee aantagne for the equipment and artil lery of the armies, and afterwards to continue the subsidy. But so fir from the armies being at present as it r ere a l -tract Wen of armies, they were fully equip ; ed andt in a situation to move. The Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Tierney) had thought it improvident to make the provisions commence with the lie of April. But the armies were in motion On the Ist .of April. Orders were given for their march es early as the Declaration was issued, which • Criss whenever ;he advance of Bonaparte was known; and Ihey were now near the seat of war. With re spect to the length of time these subsidies` might con tile, the Allies had a greater interest than we had no; idling or• wasting their time; and theielore tlitre'wat not likely to he any abuie froM that source. He hoped the House felt the arrangement was as fair and reasonable as tumid be 'made. He trusted ;he House felt how extremely encouraging it was to See such a fusee as this arranged against the enemy' 'with whom we had to crintend. And though France 11 the Treati wtkich site had violated bad got•back *any soldiers. yet her acquisitions from Whet. pro. inners "%Ole but a small proportion to all the augmen tation of force ;which the confederated Powers had e,titainedin the interaial between the cessation of the list war i,lnd the pt4cent moment. There Allies; a very great imiruveritent ;lie situation of the fur torruerlY the. very position; occupied by the French, *MO ditplpilited the fories 'left ifor•the defence of France, imposed' at the same time on the Allies a inc:.nvenierice: The French held garrisons' from the Vistula throughout Germany and on the Rhine. They gave up by the Convention with t' e Allies, S 3 fortress... 4 lai . 4 at or them most iinpertaat lisilwatlts. In these "gamsons,' 'they h?.(1 dui in . 8 'the last War rem armies distributed throe :.- nut Europe; and the resources of which the gar: risons gave' them the 'communtl, Vier, reatii heyon 4 Eli 4 Wants of the armies. and 'prevented those -arrniec 'from being any burden. on Fratire.:— liesides these gatilions reduced the Allies to the ne teasify detachil a much greater force for the pin ./ • • roc Ist rnatasint m,' than the force Which they re: SpeCitVelY cOlttatrle d , thlst si line of yomitspnication maghs•het kept up from the frontiers of Russia and the extremities of Austria to the French territories. lie had qeen . iupPlieit arriite at ;he RUssian army, aofu'ally *ought from Russia* the communication s o kept Moti forty . ' tbtiesan4 'Men were ern'plo)ect before Pantaic; and More than double the number of the !gartisod 4 D r esden were 'sago erts -044 in Masking andlieslegitig When We eon. pared the dim' ti.tuation to(; 'be Allies With'whatit at at present; vie Mutt see the immense augments: tion wll,o4lhe'p#3.l(kon't itilie"VitOkimv WO en their means . of carilfisk on esSa war. The House • would not forget also that on the very frontiers of. France we bad besides four of the strongest places 'in our hands, whence in advance we :could draw strength, or in retreat could secure our safety. Were the fortresses of Luxemburg and of Mayence of no value? Was the restoration of that chain of fortifi cations, destroyed by an infatuated Prince, along the Belgian frontier, of no importance He had the sa tisfaction to state to the House that many of the chief places in that part of the Netherlands were now in a state that would enable them to make a vigorous and regular defence—(Hear, hear.) Behind these we possessed Antwerp, Bergen-op-Zoom, Bredau, and Maestricht, powerful 'in aiding success, and most advantageous in redressing calamity. He bad e therefore a tight, to say, that though PROVIDENCI alone could prevent reverses, we had not only a just 'cause . of war, but me a ns worthy of such a cause.— The military force of all the rest of Europe was ,com bined against the half of France , which could l o ok lalonuto the Allies . for ultimate liberty and happi ness. His Lordship admitted that it would be most unjust and unnatural that all our Allies should be provided frsim the resources of Great Britain, bet such a statement would be in opposition to the fact other countries were making parallel exertions, and• we were contributing only in our fair wholesome pro. portion. Under these circumstances, .without de taining the House farther, he should only think it necessary simply to move the Resolution for granting, a sum of five millions to be distributed between thei three great military powers he had named. 'On a future occasion the House would be called upon to provide Ways and Means for raising this sum. Mr. TIERNEY asked for some information re garding Denmark. Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that he wished now to avoid entering into particulars with regard to the minor Powers. Mr. TIERNEY wished to know what part Spain was to take ? Lord CASTLEREAGH answered, that Spain had signified her acquiescence in the Treaty, but to what extent she would engage in the war, his Lord- ship was not able to state. Mr. TIERNEY inquired whether any part of the disposable sum of n millions was to be given to Por tugal, and if so, fur what purpose ? Lord CASTLEREAGH was not able to stare the arrangements with all the minor Powers, who would during the contest come into the field. He moved the following Resolution —as That a sum not exceeding five millions be granted to his Majesty, to make good his engagements with the Emperors of Russia and Austria, and the King of Prussia. Mr. TIERNEY thought that in point of candour the Noble Lord was called upon to give the House some information regarding all the Subsidiei for which Parliament would be called upon to provide. He had not stated whether any, and what sums Swe den or Portugal were to obtain. At least be could enable the House to form a wide guess at the amount. Lord CASTLEREAGH was not empowered to give any specific answer, by stating what share they would take in the general disposition. Whether Swe den or Portugal would be subsidized at all, he was nor able to state. Mr. TIERNEY requested to be informed whether' any great addition was likely to he made to the di:-' posable sum of two and a half millions, b 7 subsidies to miner powers ? L-rd CASTLEREAGH felt every disposition to satisfy the Curiosity. of the Honourabl.: Member, • but he deciiitesi pledging Government to any principle of policy that might hereafter be found injurious. Mr. W HITBREAD understood the Noble Lord 'to have stated distinctly that Sweden and Portugal were acceding parties to the Treaty.he wished to know in what proportion they were to furnish a con.' tingent, so as to unite the whole of Eurate, in the worth of the Noble Lord, against half of France. Was: Denmark also an acceding party to the Treaty ? Lord CASTLEREAGH added, that he had re ceived the most unqualified assurances from them,' and they had signed the Declaration of the 13th of March. He was not prepared to state what force Sweden would put in 'motion—he apprehended she could not now receive from us the aid she had ob tained in the last war, and without it he doubted whether she could provide a large contingent. It the Honourable Member meant to intimate that there WAS any doubt of the party Sweden would adopt, his Lordship begged to state that he had no more hesita tion as to the line of politics she would pursue than he had with ard to Austria ?—(Hear, hear.) Mr. BAN KS admitted that we had a just ground of war, but he doubted the expediency of insisting upon it in the mode recommended. As the cause was common, and all the Powers had the same in.its success, in his opinion all ought to be upon a perfect equality, and although he concurred in the Address otyesterday, it did not necessarily, as the Noble Lord had observed, pledge his opinion as to the propriety of voting the subsidies now demanded. His chief ob jection was, that though our Allies were to ibe ; equally ben fited, the principal burden fell upon Eng ' land only, and the system of subsidy of late years had been carried to an extent severely felt by the As. 'do n . It appeared by documents upon the Table, that since the year 1793 Great Britain had expended in sub sidies to foreign States 46 millions, not including many other sums advanced under other names. Of these 4(i Millions 26,600,000 had been voted by. Parliament within the last three years, besides an immense quan tit y of clothing and arms supplied to the minor powers, and arms and money to Holland. Lord CASTLEREAGH observed, that Holland had only received arms and stores, but no money. Mr. BAN KES was decidedly hostile to any exer tions or .sacrifices, on the part of this country, that exceeded those of our Allies, more especially in the present state of our finances; though he did not de spond, it was fit to look our affairs in the face, and we ahoul.. then find, that though our revenue' had atigtriented, our eapenditure had increased in mere than' it' double proportion. Our revenue, in 181$,' was 6$ millions, and, in 1814, 72 millions, being is additiOn of nine millions. What was our disburse. 'Seat I In 1813 it was 97 millions, and, in 1414 s 117 milliens•—•-an increase of 20 Millions within fur 'List three years. Such was by /to means a cheering prospect, at the warm we Mare votiagive millions to our Allteslor sr Diary :oar, besides what - we should be compelled burselvet to expend. It was tee that we tiould not provide 160,000 men ; but were it .in out power, though it silk drain our population, it - • • " would net drain the radical resources and wealth of the country. The Noble Lcrid,.and with him the oche, side of the House, seemed to make up their minds only to one alternative, viz. that the war would be short ; it might be so, but it would be fit to pro. vide for its prolongation ; and althringla he might consent to vote 'five m.llions, if it were to bo 44 the be all and the end all," it ought not to be forgotten that that sum and more would be required every year that hostilities were continued. The money co•ild only be raised by loans, which depressed all commo dities of sale, and raised all those of purchase. If from the long struggle she had maintained E , gland was not able to join with equal vigour in this new contest, why was it not fairly stated ? and if her ina bility had the effect of deterring her Allies, who pro. tested to be so hearty in the cause, we might be sure that their spirit, even with her aid, would scarceli be equal to the contest. Would they not fight with such assistance as our means fairly viewed would afford, and if so, why did we volunteer the squan dering of our money when. we could so ill afford it ? Contemplating the comparative dangers of peace or war, he confessed that his fears of the former were not by any means so great as those of the Noble Lord, though he was by no means desponding as to the result of renewed hostilities. —lf the Allies had turned their mind to security, he thought they might have obtained that end without making war upon France. A treaty with lira would leave been much safer than at the time when terms were offered to him at Chatillon. He was weaker in a Military point of view, and there had been an inter ruption in his title, which, by making him insecure at home, would render him unable to engage in attacks on other Powers. The French too were now, it was said, divided ; but foreign invasion would unite them, and increase his power, by making it ne cessary to give Bonaparte such power as would cit able him to direct their power effectually. He did not think, also. that the chances ot .success against France were very great. However great the force brought against France, that nation would, when firmly united, bailie all attempts of foreign invaders. It was said that only one half of the population of France was in favour of Bonaparte. If the other half would rise against him, there were hopes of•suc cess; but if invasion, as he thought it would, united all France, his power would be strengthened by it, and he would, besides, be able to meet any invasion. All alliances, also, contamed within itself a principle of dissolution, neither were we to beli,.ve that our pre sent Allies were elevated far above their predecessors. If we have the magnanimous Alexander, we have had theinagnanimous Paul before him. (Hear, hear.) The King's speeches for the last twenty years have been fall of praises of Allies who have afterwards deserted us. In one of those speeches we were told to look at the wisdom, the vigour, and the magna nimity of our great Ally. And who was this ? The Ottoman Porte. In 1799, the King's Speech was full of praises of the decision, the magnanimity, and the abilities of the Emperor Paul ; and before the end. of 1800, complaints were made to ParliA. meet, by the Crown, of the unjust detention of Bri. tish goods at Petersburgh, and the imprisonment of British subjects there.—(Hear, hear.) —Our Rystern should be to husband our resources. and not lavish . ; them on Allies on whose adherence to us we couldl never rely. The sum too which was demanded was larger than that which had ever been granted to the three Continental Powers a one year.—(Hear.) Even in the last year, the sum granted. eccordiqg to oue of the papers, was lets tban five trillions, though, accoiding to another account, it was something more. He would not consent to act on the idea that the resources of this country Were inexhaustible, that we were to pay the whole expense of the war ;—and it was also unadvisable to pay a subsidy, which (if the war continued long, which there was every pro bability that it would) we should be obliged to with draw, and thus give a ground of offence to our allies, who were unacquainted with our real situation.— Though the danger of peace was great, and the causes of war just, lie did not think that there was any im possibility of continuing at peace with Bonaparte, if the allies had chosen to treat with him. He should not divide the Committee himself, but if any other Gentleman chose to divide, he should certainly vote against the grant. Mr. BARING was at a loss to account for the vote the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Bankes) gave last night, considering the arguments he had just used. It was clear that if vie %%ent into the war at all, it was necessary to support it by a vote such as that pmposed by the Noble Lord. He allowed that there' was great uncertainty in going to war but having given his vote for it, he would not withhold the sup plies necessary to make it effectual. His reason for this was, that he considered it only a choice whether we should now attack Fiance with our alliances com plete, or wait till they should be broken andscatteral ed, and be ourselves attacked by her with all her re; sources re-established. Every one that looked at Bo: noparte's former conduct must see that every peace he had made was hollow; and that he was always meditating how he-could break it With the most ad-, vantage to himself. When We considered that we were only to supply 50,000 men to this great confe deration, and that the comparatively small state of Bavaria was to furnish 6%0" it was necessary for t css u moi s ion o l:.d m hwul a ti, k ieec e rhter u , iv p netdhr f e tyi fu r ldag i r i rssg u r e eaa great deficiency by pecuniary su p - s c as l dt w iel a l. pielesits consideredh w e a farces w we could t o tiaet b e th r u u e t the Powers of the Continent ought to think the pro posed supply very liberal. But he thought the other g co re n a ld t c n u o i t u f n u t r e i r i c is il countries, h a inatny u men, such as ghts o advance Holland, that red supplies of money. The trade Holland ereberdlenanreadabst: reasons very to iw.stk;ll v i rra p l ro o v f ed tl i te a ir tid ta t x 4 es e c °11 1: off ff muc se n they ought to make a considerable pecuniary. elliart ,in favour of the common Cause ; !specially as great part of her territory t be i h lostwr.ll.- in the event ot the common effort being unsuccessful. He condemned the policy of sending a Spanish force to invade the Southern Provinces of France, which were at present extremely well affected towards the legitimateGo: versiment ; but which such a policy would tend . to alie nate from it. The grant of money to Holland. to enable her to fortify her own frontier, was the most mai* policy that could be devised. But of the ge neral policy of the present war, and of granting sub. sidltei p he cordially approved. • • • Mr. BBNNET said, the people of this country . . - ought to know that we ire emlArking in tbh crusade with a debt of nei' WOO mrilions, o f 0, 44 60 millions were unfunded ; jntl that our ezpenclin d , of the last year was ISO millions. It wr should sl%. ceed, it would certainly be better than keeping tip 3 , state of armed preparation, or a peace estshlishraer A of 19 millions; but if we should fail. and Francs i10n.13 choose her own fetters rather than those the Congress might impcse oa her, we shculd brinr di , grace and an overwlle:rr:s:g (let,: on ourselve s . 11.. considered this coalition tits a conspiracy of the m any against the few ; of the rovernors a?:•.;nst the go_ verned, for the purpose ct forcing tia them rulers to which they were adverse. Mr. F. DOUGLAS ccrtended, aat vre Elt! cause for war with Bonaparte. By num go;r3 to war . with him. we should strike out Cae key•stria• the arch, and the whole fabrtc cif his defvztis . .lt crumble to dust. obTrrvi ng 1. • Mr. WHITBREAD I.cgrm by intended to occupy the attention of the Conn....;Et.- bat for a few moment.i. As to the merits oi . die w}-, his opinion upon the subject was alteadr suircientll known. It was therefote urnrcessary for im , o: this occasion, to si-gne against it. Ile diori.tere: of it mist strongly, and the: more so Suituse 'his tied led judgment that the übj,:ct :.ct s• much to remove lion:r,Art as 'to testere, t) -e boos. as the t'bject -of it quilifitd w ,., u Government vi France. But it was prColl.:!v a,c•e: beaded by 1.!...,c vivo endekOated to 4sgitist: el. object, that it it u . t.to4istinctly avowed this cot::.try would shrink from the nadertakini!. h seei . rcii Low ever, it the StiteMent of the N hie I. ird (,: ,, :; e reagti) were correct, that this iiiid.-!1::;.i,Ig w. tr ',: commenced, with no leil. thati 1,011,00) men. W. t a force I and yet the disiinguished armor (Yd. Grauan) whit had last. night unshroudel the men than blaze of his eloquence; had 0331 y contact 600,000 men against France, hut the towering im., 'gination of that Right Honourable Gentleman wa quite overtopped, anti, (who'd have thoneit i:?) 1)7 the Noble Secretary for Foreign Atliirs.—( 4 Livg4.) The Right Hon. Gentleman had, howtvcr, emit. guished the money, the credit, and cavalry of Frame at one dash, and there he exceeded the Noble Lord. The object of the proposed subsidy was, it w4s said, to enable the confederates to make a gre it, a simulta neous, and also a sudden 'effort. But how came this sullen effort to have been so long postponed ? Two months had already elapsed since the return of En:.2.. parte, and yet. according to a Gentleman on the other side, two months more must elapse before.this sett , den effort could take place. It was to be rerollectect that all the force about to act against Vie crenc!4 atria he supplied with means by this countr y, for Ai r a r i,., Rusia, and Prussia had neither money nor cr:.... ~ ‘i r. ~. This supply too, must not only be iurnished at pre. sent, but as long as the war continued—and how long it might continue no one could say. He seal .iielt: that. Ministers held out an erpectatiOn that till :: a' would speedily terminate. Indeed, this prospect WA been distinctly presented by the Chancellor of the Er chequer and others, ao doubt with a view to recolci:c. Parliament and the country to the insane proje, t in which we were about to engage. Yes, ins me he would call it, especially as to the calculation i:per. its speedy conclusion ; for supposing Bonaparte sirt ' actually destroyed at thelutset, who could say that his destruction would serve to put an end to the war I --who could say that the French armies or the Frend people would therefore submit to the dominion of d . Bourbons, or to the dictation of foreign government! (Near, hear I)—that all the enthusiasm* and energy rt the French Nation would immediately dsappear ? Such a hope could not be rationally entertained; ar.: would it not then be wire rather to 1 ,ok for sectiri:: from an armed confederacy, than reLort to ac:u.. war. The boast of the Noble• Lord as to the power of the confederacy formed at Chaumont, mu:t ha-:. been quite vain, it a similar contederacy wociii r.., now produce a sufficient security against Bolarar:. without plunging in the calamities of war. Way tho have recourse to war, the duration or end of abich I:0 one could foresee ? It was impossible, indeed, th:e. any one, that the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) him!. could look for the termination of the war within it year, as some sanguine persons seemed disposed to expect. Yet the. Committee was now called upon to 'grant a large sum of money to those persons up,a. ,whom so much of our money had already beer. squandered, each of whom had on former occzion , accepted our subsidies and deserted us immediately afterwards. Such had been the conduct of Prusa.. in 1794, •and the conduct of 'Austria and Russia to , 'wards us was quite notorious. But the Noble Lon, professed to think that be had hit upon a notahl.' of pedient, with regard to Russia, upon the subject c: the Dutch Loan, which expedient was truly to Muir the steady co-operatibu of Russia, to secure the pcs `session of Belgium to Holland. From that exPedi eat, however, he (Mr.-Whitbread) could expect ° C such result; and that se far from securing the E lbe rents of Russia, that Power muse laugh at tlg:k . who entertained the calcul a tion... But it was CO' amiss to call the nature i?r, the Dutch Loan tc the recollection of the gosp.moce. —war. ter' fr, The EMpress Catherine . borrowed a certain Alm ''' money in. Holland, with a. view to provide for the n ' vasion of Turkey, with a part of which she contr ived take . posse,sion of Oceskow.—ot that very 0 3 i' kow, to recover Which the:warlike genius of Mr. Pitt upon whose moral : the Neible Lord Protessed .to act would involve thi> . .countrY in hostilities, a nd with el ( remainder of this loan Catherine invaded Poland, I commit that spoliation which all great ion reed In throughout the warld, had uoanimoils:y ..n.J ail*. vocally reprobated. ' Yet . England had nuie law: . taken to pay a part of .that loan. Yvs, in tl''s da Y, n morality, when we were about to wage war le sn' e, io put down that arch fiend of .Europo, hini la Pr b . this country undertook to pay a debt consracteu ,: Russia .for bitch an abominable purpose as I w a t ; anemberment of Poland. Let Gentlemen e"m b '' . those facts which could not be denied, with the c ' il l . duct of Austria, which had never paid had obtained irons this country. and ask tiamse,4 *het* they could consistently grant rue prep, -_,%. subsidy to such Powers I Whether they could ~ .ii . : rely .opera their adherence, or Upon tile kitistal, I : : formance of their engagements ? These Power 0: d ascii deter . * us already, and they wow ibAbo, again if it suited their interest; and it WAS P r l i ~,,T that they would dessert eaco other-411,...,4, tile loanics. would split upon their own views of aggrandizoini—ta, This, indeed was naturally to be expected trust 1 —..ar • • • • to: $ .14