Star. — London, England, 1805-05-25 00:00:00

ReIRLIAMENTiIkr PROckEDINciB. HOUSE OF LORDS, FRIDAY, MAY 24. Ihe final decifion upon the Mil Appeal Cattle, Redingtort •. Redingtan, was,after fume obfervations from the Loan Nelms- Loa, upon the nature of the cafe, poftpaned till Monday. The farther conflagration of Moores Diverge Bill was aifo poft poned. The Bills upon the Table were forwarded in their refpealve Rages, and feveral private Bills, brought up from the Commons by Mr. BALD* IN, Sit J. Fa trauma, Mr. Man MING, Mr. Moit- IMO'S t, anki other Gtntlernen, were feverally read a Brit time. Till LARI. OT ST. ♦INCINT. Lord AUCKLAND, in ensfequenee of a IVlefrage from the Commons, rtquelted their LatelOsips pcaniflion for Earl Sr. VI tICZNT to attend. if he thought fit, before the Selea. Commit- tee of Naval Enquiry, in order to be examined, moved, that a McKay be fcut to the Commons to enquire as to what points it was intended to eaandne Earl Sr. VINCI arr.--Ordered. Jusnca VON. - • • • • • • ' Lord CARIATON role, and obfaved, that this being the day appointed for the Houfe to refolve itfelt into a Committee to en quire into the Charges againft Mr. Juitice Fox, it became nocef lazy from partite' eircumftances, to requeft of the Houk the indulgence of poltponing this erlisiry a few days longer. Nut at all from any ttowillingricfs or impromptitude on the part of the Learned Judge to meet the charges againft him ; for he begged so remind the Houk, that from the &ft moment that Learned judge bad heard of dude charges, be rofeffed not only h:s readinefs, but his molt anxious wills to inert enquiry, and to be put upon the vindkatien of his charader and coodudt. It was bis wins to have been beard by Comfy] at the Bar of that Houk, and nothing was farther front hi, delire than the f•ghteft delay or merlon. Buten account ef the min-arrival of Tome Papers material to his defence, it became nroeffary to requeft their Lordihipt to pullpone, for a few days longer, the proceedings in this bufinefs. The Noble and Learned Lord coneludiAl by moving to difeharge the Order of the Day, and to appoint the Committee for Thurfday neat; which, after Come converfatiou on the ft bJedt by Lord Howe (sty air, the Duke of CLAit an and fume other Peen, was agreed to. e••• t. encapar. Lord DA KNLEY role to bring forward his pro. mifed motion, in confequence of the notice he had given on a former day : that motion he felt it neeef fary to preface by Come obfervations on the fubjeCt of the enquiry it was his object to propofe for their Lordthips adoption; and he apprized their Lordthips that the tenor of his motion would be direted to the appointment of a Seleta Committee to enquire into the abufes which had obtained in the Naval Depart. anent. It was particularly worthy of remark, that the long Lift of Papers for which he had moved in the month of M trch la, and which had been refuted to him by his Majelly's Minifters, had been fince sranted, upon the motion of an Honourable Member m the other Hoare of Parliament. In order to en able their Lordthips to enter into a full enquiry upon this &Ned, it would not only be neceffary for them to inveltigate thole papers, brit leveret others, for which it was his intention to move, should the Houle think fit to adopt his motion for the Committee.— In the invelligation, to which he had no doubt their Lordlhips would readily be induced to accede, he defired exprefsly to ditclaim all views of perfonal afperity towards any Officer of his Majeßy's govern ment. Public juaice was his Pole motive ; nor had be any other oleic& than to render jußice to thofe who Would be found to have deferved well of their country, and to dill-over and bring to account thole whole cOnduß had been of the contrary tendency. —The palters for which he had already, and might hereafter Move upon this fubjeet, were for the ile t& of enibling the Houfe to form a comp.-ri berowerea the econdnet of the late and formes Board of Admiralty, and to idiertaid which had sifted Moll ateritorioutly for the public fervice.— Whether that Board bad aced moll wifely and efficiently for the public defence, who had difmilled fermi the publit fervice a number of ureters flips which crowded, without arengthening our Navy ; which declined the giving contrads for Ships to the merchant builders, and preferred the building of our 'grads of war in the King's Yards—which difmilfed ureters and ineffedive officers and artifans, and em ployed only thole that wete aetive and efficient— which &retied inveltigation into abufes and pecu lation, in the various departments of his Majelly's Dock yards, and put a flop to the moil flagi ious and profligate fytlem of profution and watlp of the public money : or that Board of Admiralty, which reverfed this fyflem, and by giving contraas for thips to the Merchant Builder, increafed the num ber, but moll materially impaired the firmer of our Navy, by crowding it with thips at an enormous expence, but abfolutely ufelefs to the fervice. The Papers now on their Lordfhips' table, confining of the Report, of Commiffioners appointed by the other Houfe of Parliament, abounded with Qrong inßancer, and laid before their Lordthips fufficient Parliamen tary ground to thew the neceffity of going into the Enquiry. In looking over thofe Papers, one of the fiat objeds that !truck his mind was the purchafe of fome (hips of war from the Merchant Builders at the enormous rate of 341. per ton; fome of which, neverthelefs, fo far from being fervicsable to the na vy, or adding to its Rrength, were abfolutely ufelefs. He would fele& two for the prefent, and the Houfe would be bell able to judge, from the report of the Officersappointed to command them, whether or not they were of u& to the fervice. Theme was called the HindoGan, and was attached to Admiral Rai nier's fquadron.and he would read from the report a letter from the Captain commanding that veffel— his opinion of her fitnefs and efficiency : the other was called the Mediator, of which the Houfe would alto be enabled to judge from the letter of her Cap. tail). The Noble Lot d read the letters from the Cap tains of both flops, from which it appeared that both were fo ill built, In utterly difproportioned in their mails, rudders, ropes, Jigging, and guns, and fo high above the water, as to be totally unmanageable And unfit for fervice. They were both under fifty guns, and yet they colt the Government as much as ;.}.gun [hips built in his 7.lajely 's Dock-yards ; and, wltat was Itill wade, lone. thips of the line were ac tually arippcd of a principal part of their crews to man thole ufelefs veils ; and thus the means of our defence, inßead of being Rrengthened, was con& derably weakened, and our Navy reduced to a Rate much below what it was at the time when a Noble Lord who fat at the head of that department had re tired from office, and whohad been, by certain pezfons, to whole proceedings he was not friendly, cenfured for his condat in directing the affairs of the Nary, which, in his (the Noble Speaker's) mind, merited tee univerfal approbation and gratitude of the coun try. What he would with was, to contrail the Rate cf the Navy at preient with that in which it flood under the diteditat c f his noble and gallant Friend. It might indeed have a greater number of thips, but were they fo well manned, appointed, or prepared to meet that adivc and enterprifing enemy with whom we have to contend, and AO has net* relaxed ' one moment in his exertions to inereafe his Rtength, and facilitate the aceemplifhtnent of his views agiunft ' this country t He would afk his Lordfhip, whether, when his noble, gallant, and venerable Friend, was at the head of the Admiralty, any fuch event had occurred as two formidable fleets of the enemy tri umphantly proceeding to lea, and roaming no one knew whither, in defpite of otir boafted navy and blockading fyllem ; while our Weft India Mandl were attacked and ravaged by another of the enemy's fquactrons (Near! Hear! Near!) Let their Lord- Ihips judge, from this -eircumflance, to which praife or cenfure was moll due, the late or the prefent Boat dof Admiralty. Another ground of condem- Illation was, the fyftem of taking fillips from the Mer. chant Contraaors, inflead of building them in the King's Dock-yards, by which means a number of competitors, encouraged by thole contraas, were brought into the market to out-bid the Government in the prices of labour, timber, and every material for building and Rom. Thus the expeoces of build ing in the King's yards was increafed almolt in a double ratio. If their Lordfltips would be at the trouble of examining the papers npon their table, they would perceive a molt ftriking inflance of this kind relishing from the contraaing fyftem, where, in the fpace of a few weeks, no lets than 173 able fhip-1 wrigl:ts, is the prime of life, quitted the fervice of the King's Dock-yards, for the purpofe of being em ployed at much higher wages in thofe of the Mer chant contraaors, to build thole very fhips, which, he would contend, but for this fyllem, could be built molt confiderably cheaper, as well as infinitely better in the King's yards; and he would aver that chore 175 men were competent to build three feventy•four gun !hips at 361. per ton. Could any cafe be flronger than this to prove the badnefs of the fyftem on which the bufinefs of fhip-building was conduEted ? But if flagrant caufe for cenfure crated in that department, it was Hill worfe in the contralts for repairing, for it appeared that the repairs of the Magicierme, the Andromache, the Flora, and another vac!, which he named, coil, in 1793, the enormous fum of 63,0001. by contra t, the building of which, in his Majefly's Dock-yards, would be completed for little more than 40,0001. Here then was another palpa ble ;finance of the ruinous principle of proceeding by contralti.. It was Paid, that in the King's yards there was not room for laying down firft-rates. He denied the affirtion, and Rated that there were in each yard twenty flips large enough for firft.rates, which, fuppofing each to require two years in com pletion, would he competent within that time to in creafe the number and ftrength of our Navy greatly beyond any necefliry. But was the number of hand, now engaged in our Dock-yards greatly reduced. on account, as was alledged, of the numbers difmitfed by the late Fiat Lord of the Admiralty t No; but on the contrary, much greater than on any former occafion ; and yet from the bad fupply of timber, and the fharneful mifmanagement of mixing hands, all forts, good and bad, and paying all equal wages, iuliead of Rriking the men into clalfis, and employ. ing each upon the work to which he was moll competent, the bufinefs of the yards was molt tardily condufted, and at an enormous expeoce. The per fons who proceeded in this fliarneful manner teemed to have forgotten the voluminous report on their Lordllsips' table, or to fuppofe at lean that they were deterred by its magnitude from looking into its contents. Not intimidated by this confederation, he had looked into it minutely, and felt himfelf every where appalled by the enormity of the peculation, and alto the profufion which it exhibited. Not wifh ing to go into particular detail at this moment, he would jolt advert to the Sixth Report, which exhi bited inch fcenes of perverfenefi, mifmanagement. and criminal proftifion, as he did not think it poffi ble could have exilled in any fyftem, and more ef pecially under the eye of a Navy Board, appointed to condufl the bufinefs of a great nation, and formed of men profzaing charaaer and competence for their poll. Among other inflances which this Report pre tented, was one, where a charge had been made for certain repairs and additions to a alp at res. per inch ; and in another place, for work executed pre cifely in the fame manner tol. per inch ; and yet both charges were figned by the Navy Board. How it was poflible fo grofs and fhameful an inllance of ex tortion upon the country, as thatof charging pounds in lieu of (billings, could have palled the vigilance of any public board, unexamined, was to him utterly inconceivable. The Noble. Lord then proceeded to examine many other parts of the Report, and upon the whole con demned, in the flrongelt terms, the criminal and atro cious instances of negligence, profnfion, wale, and peculation, it exhibited. Again, the Noble Lord difclaimed all perfonal views in this enquiry, yet he could not but feel that the Noble Earl behind him (Lord St. Vincent) was very deeply interefted. He thould neither advert tithe malicious rumours which had been indufirioufly circulated, nor the virulent pamphlets, and other flanderous libels that had been directed againft that Noble Earl.. The Noble Earl had been termed, by tone authority too, the greaten enemy his country ever faw. But Rending there as' the friend of that Noble Earl, he could not fit down without giving (however unneceffary it might be), the molt decided contradiction to fuch !lenders.— (Hear ! Hear !) That Noble Earl had been one of the bell friends his country ever law ; for, after hair-' ing ianquifhed her enemies abroad, and crowned her Itandards with trophies in every quarter of the globe, he returned to vanqnifh her dill worfe enemies at home. That Noble Lord was not the patron of pe. culators, but the detector of abufes. He did not, however, call their Lorellhips' attention to the fitua-I tion of the Noble Earl upon any ecnfideration of his public fervices, brilliant and invaluable as they had been to his country ; he merely befought for him jullice at their Lordfhips' hands, againft the bate and unfounded imputations rumoured by thofe who, in revenge for his detection of their mifdeeds, had endeavoured to injure his charaEler. Inftead of be log the worn enemy of his country, he would aver him to have been her bell friend. By him it was that the enquiry was fet on four, which led to the detetlion of fo many and fuch enormous frauds up on the country. He had fet his [boulders to the wheels, and in spite of art, influence, and evafion, undaunted by the number as well as the magnitude of thofe impediments he had to encounter, he pufbed thatsnquiry to the utmolt, and let an example to that Houk, which his country bad uaiverfalry op. pbruded, and Which the Noble Lord hoped their Lerdfhips would adopt. Lord Darnley concluded by moving, "That a Self& Committee of their Lord• Mips be appointed, to comfift of the Duke of Clarence, the Marquis of Bock/metros, Lord Winchelfea, Lord Albemarle, Lord Ducie, Lord Auckland, Lord King. and four or five other Peers, to take into con fideration the teem! papers on the table, refpating the State of the Navy." Lord MELVILLE addreited the Hours at great length, commenting mach in detail on the matters of calculation adverted to by the Noble Lord who had kill concluded. He (aid that Noble Lord had wick great candour, at the commencement of his (peach, explained the objet of his motion, which was to lead to a minute compariton between the condua of the late and former Board of the Admiralty.—lt was aferted that many idelefs vefels were built that were of no fervice to the fleet, and which were in competent to any duty whatever. Thefe abufes were admitted by the plan of coat-sifting (hips of war in the Merchants' yards. Thefe wtre Come of the many grievances complained of, and at leak the Noble Lord would do him the jullice to allow, that in or der that he might complete his catalogue. he (Lord Melville) granted. with a tingle enemies, every pa per and document far which application was made. With thefe inftruments, compofing three ponderous volumes, the table of their Lordfirips was burthened, and the fubjelts alluded to immediately by the Noble Lord, comprifed one of thefe volumes. The prefent motion was much more extenfive in its operation than the Noble Lord was at all aware. It was not only referable to the late Admiralty, but to all the Boards of that department for a long (cries of years. It was not fufficient to draw the attention of this Houfe to this prodigious mars of recent matter. but the Noble Lord mull alto comprehend in his review the 6th Report upon the table, which had long re mained there without entailing obfervation. He (Lord Melville) was not wholly unprepared to meet this part of the examination, but he would defer that enquiry until he confidered, under two principal di vili•ms, the variety of accefation which the Noble Lord had thought fit to apply. z. The purchafe of (mall (hips for the public defence. a. The employ ment of the Merchants' yards for the conftrutftion of (hips of the line. Both thefe citcumftances of mill management, the Noble Lord teems to confine to the period when he (Lord Melville) had the honour to prelide at the Admiralty. With regard to die fiat,, the engagement of (mall (hipping for the national fe curity, if that were a crime, he, with great readi nefs, pleaded guilty to the charge ; but the quellion might deferve tome regard, whether, under the cir cumitances of the country, this expedient was or was not politic ? It would be remembered, that this was not a new enquiry, nor was his a fanciful opinion confined to his own circle ; a Noble Marquis had propofed to bring forward a Motion, the exprefs ob jet of which was to inflitute a complaint, that veffels of this defcription were not procured to meet a fimilar force collated by the enemy ; and the foundation of the proceedings in another place was of the fame kind. He did not aver that the cla.l moor on that fubjeft was properly dire&ed ;he would, however, declare, that he thought it his duty to enquire, and craft of this fort was obtained.-1 The meafure, however, was not commenced in his time; before that period. thirty-nine (hips had been controded for ; but a much longer period than teemed to be neetftary was allowed for their pre paration. The acquifition of thefe, he had the good fortnne to accelerate; one hundred and thirty one additional were procured, and the total force of this nature then attended to one hundred and feventy•fix veftels. In the precipitation with which thefe means for the public fafety were retorted to, it was not far m-Xing if many of them were not in a competent (Late to meet the violence of the boifterous element. But whatever might be its condition, the general feeling of both Hooks of Parliament. and the voice of the nation, teemed to call for this fpecies of defence; and let Noble Lords candidly admit, if. in filch a predicament, it were proper to addnee this meafure as a fubje& of ferious complaint. But he would Rate more particularly the number of thefe (hips, their condition, and value. When he came to the Board, he found a report, Rating the time the vetch were adapted to ferve; fame were eftimated for (even, tome for five, and tome for only four years employ ment. The material enquiry was, if there. fuch as they were, would enable the Admiralty to referve the regular navy to meet the tame dJcription of force of the enemy. What was the number of (hips of the line ? We had 81 at that time, and France and Holland, in all their ports, could with difficulty collat 70 (hips of equal rank. He would not fay our force to this extent was ready ;he would grant, that after an arduous fervice of to years, they were, in many retpelts, in point of condition, inferior to the (hips of the enemy, which had remained unin jured in their own ports. During ten months the naval ftrength was preferved to this extent, but it was conflantly liable to diminution, and means were recurred to, to re(Lore the lots incident to an :alive and dangerous fervice. In the examination of the documents, No. 98, Noble Lords would find, that in the month of May, 1804, fix (hips of the line were building ; two of thefe had been laid down in rltoz ' and one in each of the years 1802, tßc 3, and aro+. One was laid down at a much earlier date. —The Deptford, the Woolwich, and another, were expated to be ready in 18os, a fourth in 18c6, and a fifth in 1807. Such was the force prepar ing in the King's yards, and fuch was the addi tional force expelled from this exertion. Fairing over that laid down as early as 1782, which was not finifhed, if Noble Lords would look to page 78, they would difcover that between February, tBOI, and May, 1804, the Bombay, and five others, were expated to be fupplied from the King's yards. But what was the return, when enquiry was made at the latter date ? Not one of them had been laid down ; and the reafon affigned was, that the want both of hands and materials had precluded the poffibility of completing the orders. Befidcs there, five (hips had been contrated for in the Merchants' yards, in 180 t, but of thefe in 1804., two had not been laid down.— Thefe fats (poke fo plainly, that it teemed quite un neceffary to make any remarks. Noble Loses would fee the Rate to which the Navy was battening,, by bare recital. With this melancholy papal before him, he confidered it his firft duty to endeavour his utmoft for the reßoration of our Naval force—the glory, the fafcty, the caiftence of the country de pended upon it. He looked round to a:retro %sit he could acquire the molt prompt and ea :all . ante ; the Merchants' yards appeared to hint r . nifli the only immediate refource ; it was c with great anxiety he found, in the mon'h of Few L ary ;803, a peremptory order not to refort to the Merchants' yards for affidance in the corillrudi-.n of !Lips of the line. At that time we had 6. !hips in ordinary, and a Purvey was made, that, under this' new difficulty, they might be repaired. The enquiry was fucceeded by an adivity correfponding with the occafion—and of that number, fifty (hips, before wholly out of employment, were given for the de. fence of the country; and this was another promi nent faa which would receive the attention of their Lordlliips. At this time, what was the !tate of the Royal dock-yards? In May 1804, only twenty five nips and as many docks were vacant. With tli;- ficiency of fpace and accommodation, it would been infanity to have devoted thefe to the building of (hips of war. But though the means we had wiry' not negleaed day after day, the (Sips on duty were requiring repair; and in the courfe of so months, in the years 1804. and ISoS, there had been refitted, in the King's yards, one hundred and fixty one veffels; one hundred and eight of which had been received into the docks. But was this recourfe to the Mer chants' yards a romantic fchetne of his own ? Was it not adopted by every board fine the year t 774? If he took a wrong courfe, he did but follow in the wake of Lords Sandwich, Howe, Chatham, and Spencer. There were at this moment no lefs than 120 (hips in the Britilh Navy, which at different pe riods had been built in the Merchants' yards. Were Noble Lords difpofed to tefign this acceffion of Ilrength, in which he computed - no Ids than thirty five (hips of the line ? if fuch were the meaning of this interruption, he Ihould be glad to linen to their explanation. He was ready to (hew. that from the period Rated (1771), there never was a time ofgreat naval exertion, in which the Merchants' yards were not the principal refouree. When Lord Sandwich was at the head of the Admiralty for a term of tea years. the greateft aaiviry prevailed That ever had been known in that department. (Hear! hear!) — Be fides the repairs made to an incalculable extent, 36 (hips of the line were built, no lets than 34 of which were from the Merchants' yards. During the time of profound tranquillity, which fucceeded from the year 1783 to 1788, no affiflance was derived from that quarter, but fix flips of the line were con ftruCted in the Royal docks. Advancing farther. the fame principle was adhered to, and from 1794 to 1831, the proportion of (Sips from the Merchants' compared with the King's yards, was as 17 to 5. So corred was the affection, that to the time of the Adminillration of the Noble Lard who preceded him (Lord Melville) in the office, in all times of revere preffure, the merchants' yards were the principal re fource. But he could proceed even to a later period without danger of contradidion. It appeared from the papers on the table, that there had been kite correfpondence between the Noble Earl, to whom he had jolt alluded, and Sir Andrew Snape Hammond the Comptroller of the Navy. The letters he bad in view referred to Tome coneerfation which had paffed on the fubjed he was now fpeakiag to, the employ ment of the merchants' yards. Among other matters. it feemed that the molt perfed good humour had not prevailed between the Merchants and the Board. and Sir Andrew hoped that harmony would be re vived by the intervention of his Lordlhip. The Comptroller of the Navy had tko perfonal commu nication with the Noble Earl, on account of the in difpofition of the latter at his country flat ; this Offi cer of the Board therefore wrote to the Firft Lord, expreffing his furprife at not having heard on the fubjea oldie merchants' yards, and his anxiety to have fame information or order regarding it from his Lordfhip. The anfwer to this was dated gth Jab nuary, 18ca, and the Noble Earl thus imparted his fentiments : a It mull be frefh in your recoll:dion that I feldom converted with you without entailing to you the neceffity of building as many 74 gun (hips as we can, and therefore I am much furprifed at your letter." From the whole tenor of this letter he was jnitified in affurning that at lea& to this date he had the authority of Lord St. Vincent for building in the I merchants' yards wherever contradors for the or pole could be found. So Sir. Andrew S. Hammond underltood it, and in confequence of this letter he ladvertifed for fuch contrads with the builders.— Thefe advertifements had fcarce appeared in the pub lic prints before (on the 2oth of January) Sir An drew was furprifed by a letter of a very different taro. dency from his Lardlhip. Having laid (laid he) before the Commitlioners of the Admiralty the public notice given, I am defired to inform you that no tenders are to be accepted, and that no line of bat. the (hip is to be built in the merchants' yards." He was totally at a lofs to conjedure what could pro duce this fudden alteration in his Lordfhip's mind. but the opportunity was now given which he trufted the Noble Earl would not negleit, of removing the uncertainty to which all mutt heexpofed on the view of the papers on the table. He con(ldered it highly important that all ambiguity fhould be removed ; becaufe, if he were at all correct in the hillory he ' had given of the progrefn of the navy for the left thirty or forty years, this new plan would be a dc• flruftive blow, and prevent its future fuperiority.— Some perfonal feeling feemed unfortunately to save blended Will with this intercourfe, for in his letter. the Noble Earl added, " To prevent any further mifunderflanding, I &dire your next communication may be with the Board." Thus was the Comp ' troller deprived of any dire& connexion with the Fa Lord of the Admiralty. If the Noble Lail were incapable of holding any intercoutfe with Sir Andrew Snape Hammond, why was not the latter fuperfeded ? of this he (Lord Melville) at leaft was convinced, that it was impoffible that the affairs of the Navy could be managed with any regularity or fucccfs, without a perfonal. intimate, couttant, and familiar communication between the Firft Lord of the Admiralty and the Comptroller of the Navy.— With regard to the expence, halted little to add to what appeared on the papers before the Houfe. In them their Lordfhips would difcern his anxious en deavours to reduce this as much as poffible : there was no option : either the facrifice was to be made, or the (hips were not to be obtained. If :mooch were added to the public burthens from this caufe, it may, perhaps, be juftly attributed to the indifcrcer confidence in the pacific appearance prefented by the enemy, and the cooferent inattention to our marine