Star. — London, England, 1802-06-01 00:00:00

11/I.ollllu *. - ••• 4 PAR I.I44IIENTART PROCEEDINGS. HOIISE OF LORDS, MONDAY. MAY3I.. Preview- to prayer* being read. th-ie LordOsips ref dared Into s Committee of Privileges, on the ruk,•et of the claims of cer tain infli M.ers, tie.; but the order ;or the eveltifion of aran sem kintverforted, we 'atr;e precluded from Rating pinta/13r wtnt toot thee. Caaii.!..l were then heard in enntintiail , n, relative to the Scotch Avstul, M.,rthland and Tni 1/I.ti.tl T.. Cadell. namely, Sir. Mosaic at time length feeonil fn: ; the further hearing was dile reed till Thurfday. .1 hr Pills itrin the ihk wen forwarded in their telOcaive Rage:: In the count Of theft ptoce,diii;:s, a convcrf.ation of lecath strife Between the Earl of Carnarvon, Lord Bolton, the Lord Chancellor, and Lord Auckland, reipeclie.g the Behinfyille Inclnfure AIII, affei‘ling Cr: t41:1 !4114.14 in the Pat of Kingfclere, I !ants. The firtt-m. mils:tad Peer moved," that the further entilideration of the Bill he deferred till that day the. • iitontlis;" and perfifting in his motion, the PA-angers wet e or& r--1 to withdraw, that their lairdfhiri might divide. How ever, the converfatior. nn the fuhicel continued Conic time at length the clifeaffion W. 3 term'aiatid by a divifion r putrin off the Bill for three 111011 , h3,32.--ligainit it,3- 11 tkirity sy. The Bill is confaquently loft for the prefent 'The Order being read for their Lordllaii.s to rcfolve into a Co not, tee on the Manure Sale Bill, . _ Lord tloet.A‘D Ude to oppoic the proceeding. After rcvcat ing a Pew leiding objedlione, which he had fo forcil•ly againit the Bill, on a former eveni..g, his he retift a detailed &Sentries:l of the Bill. as wh:illy beneath the attention of their Lordlhips. He cenfured the praalcc, ton frequent of late, of calling for the interference of the Legiflature, upon fueh trivial. and iiiinecelfary occalions, and concluded by moving, tsh..e the Comniittcc on the WI be poft e otied till that day three months. Which proptition inectirg with the concturencc of their Lordihips, it was ordered accordingly.—lo cualequence, tile Bill it loft for the prefcnt !i'ef;ion. Lord Pt en Alt prefented a ',umber of Papers, which were certain Accounts reletivr to the Civil Lilt, the 41 per crats,ace. Th,fe were ordered to lie on the Table. _ Lord HOLLAND moved. that they fhould be printed. Lord Petti.tst fa:d. tic did nut confider it as a matter of more that lt.:h papsrs Cnould be printid. Cowl it,,t an Parliament Mid been called upon to pay the (lASI% of the Cisil Lift, (very Member of either Honk was fairly intitled in have every di;:ree of nsormation on the fubjett, and that unlels the papers w..re printed, they could not couvesiently nuke themfelvee mallets of their contents. Lord Pr L'IA rt faid, be had not cqucted to the motion, hut had only •,hf,rtted, that fuch a too ion was r.ot to be eonfi.krsd a. a motion of ont.t.G. Tilt MILITIA IIItL• The fine fe having ;chatted it (di info a Committee on this Rill, Lord lint , art, the Fad of Berkeley, the F.arl of Carnarvon, anti I ord Rolle proporc_d a great variety of antendments, fcveral of Which were difeulted,oul the Carl of Rnmury. lord Media, Lord GiantLy, the Marquis of Buckingham, and Lord Pei jai :Cll in debate. Then- ve:,‘ a divifion no the elaufe p. 33, which coatis and dire& ~that the lull ices affembh el at the next Ckfterill or Quarter Sdfion* for any County, Wieling, or Place, in which any pri vate Militizoian chofcn for unv place or par:thin the raid coun ty, in cone quence o f any pa awate being appointed a fitrjeant, corporal, or drummer. upon any vacancy necafinned by death or difchargc of any non-conimifLooed offi.-er,or drummer, fhall save tier power to order a turn of meney„ not exceeding the average price paid for a futltitute or volunteer in filch, or the adjoining patifh or place, to be paid cut of the county rates to the churchwardens or overfeert of the plor of the parifh, who fbould find or provide (web other man, as aforefaid. 1 he Earl of CA aNAIVOa warmly contended that this impof ea a new and unexpetted tax on the farmer, and as the Militi a fervice was no longer a (ovine for the county which claoft it in particular, but to all invents aod purpores a public fervice, the money ought to be paid out of the public treafury, he therefore moved to Lave oat the words " comity Lev.," and infect, 0 re ceiver of the land tas."—On the divilion the numben were, Contents —Non-contents e 6. Man* of the other amendments gave rift to dileuffion, and there waa another divifion. Lord HOBART moved the inf•rtion of a new claufe, drawn to meet the Earl of Carnarvon's objed ion, Rated the other even ing to the augmentation of the Mibtia eventually to boaooo tern. 'the elaufe Rated chat the sewoo over and above the eflablifh anent !.Deco), Oiould till exhaufted furniftt every Militiaman wanted to fill up the VlC4llCit's in the 4,:,cao,wlhtiever vacar cies Should arifc, without further expetics to any parifla or place. The claufe was received. At length, after going through the whole Bill claufe by claufe, which took up hnor hours. the Dill was reported. and the report •Mrred to be taken ir.to eonfideration on hurfday next. The Debtors' Reba Bill and four other, were brought up by Mr. C. Wynne, Mr. Alexander, and others, and read , a Brit time......ldjuurned at nine. HOUSE OF COMMONS. The Debtors Relief Bill was read a third thne,ancl paffed• further comidtration or the Report of the Committee er. the Volunteera BM was deferred till 'Wednefday. The Report of the Committee of Supply was read, and the Ref°lyrical on the Pet thin of the Sugar Coopers in the Port of Loudon. for comporstion of their loft by the Wet Agre.d ta. . Thy Report of the Comraittee on the Expiring Laws relative to Wrought Silk and the Either , was agreed to. The colif..h.ration of the. Report on the Alien Bill was de !crud till tVedi.efday. Mr. VA w Ayr tA* r prefented an Account of the Ordinary P.evenu s a.,d Fsi r.tnniinacy Rcfourcrs ot (treat Britain. The Bid inr granting an Allow.mci. to Adjutants and Set , Item Ma . ',ors nt difcalbodi,d lt,;:im.nt: of Militia, was read a net, and ordered tab. re d aft co id time on Wednefday. CARNA I IC. Mr Nicifou.s defircd to know whether it was the intentiqn of Mioifiers t , ) lay any information before Pa- liament relattve to the tranfaaions that had recently taken piace in the Carnatic? An lion. Gentleman (Mr. She: ;Jan) had given nn tice of his in.ention to bring the fubjeet forward. If tit It H•in Gentleman did not do fo, he fhould think it his duty to fubmit a motion to. the Houfe T.le Ctiawcrtt,.ottof the Excuactltez faid there eras no I with whatevlr on the part of Government to willthold any information which might be enalid.fred impnrtant to the queliion. On the COlllt at y, it WAS ILL' ansious &ire of his Majef ty's Mini!ters to mext the difcialion fa i rly, parti cularly as attacks had been made on the charac: tees ci certain pet fons high in office in India, who, ti iten their mutat was fct utinizeti, would he p. tint i t' have merited the approbation and thanks of the -Houle. MIL , TIA OF TIFT.A,M. - - . Mr. Fos TF it laid, he rof; to fithrnit to the Pouf- a litlaject of •great importance to Ireland.— An aavertiterucet had appeared in a Dublin paper, hy the Adjutants of the Militia, (lathy._ That doubt; having been entertained whether of tie Militia its had ferved their time were en ti;!ed to their dircitai ge,4•ll,hd been thought advise aSle to explain to Inch perf , ,n; that they were tilt charged from !licit telpeflive colps, and that they were at liherty to return to their hornet." Stich die ~e :ieral order of thc.Adjatants for eh ogingfrom ft! vice vier , " mart .. in the Militia time was expo-ed. fie maiotained, how, ever, that loch men were the proFrty of.the coun. tie% if tj,i, was a genuine Advertifenient, the Adjutant had taken upon himfelf Infarairsit tht pleated. If it was a tiratagem for remitting, ae thould fay nothing further upon the fubjea, but if it was nut, he Ihould on Wednefday make a motion. • Mr. WICRttAM faid the adrertifement had been ;ailed in confequence of the opinion of his Majef ty's civil Officers. The SECRETARY at Waarecommended the Hon. Member to poltpone his motion till fomething up on the luffinefs had been heard from Ireland.— There appeared to be fame milunderltanding on the part of the Adjutart and Law Officers. Mr. FOSTER appointed his motion for Wand: day fennight. SCOTCH MILITIA. The Scotch Militia Bill was reported. On the motion that it be read a third time onWednefday, Mr. Exi.aor role and oppoled it with great warmth. He lamented that he had not known of its being in the Houfe, as he certainly fhould have o')jeaed to it in every Rage. He difapproved highly of thus increafing the numbers of the Mi litia. In the prefent circumftances of this country and of Europe, a large local force was compara tively of little ufe, and it would be much better to reserve our population for the recruiting fervice. The Militia wcre a garrifon that could not make a tally for their proteaion. He particularly ob jeael to the pow.;r given to the Crown of calling out 4000 men in addition to the Boco, on any emergency. This was cutting up the recruiting fervice by the roots, at the time it was moll ne ceilary to procure recruits. Scotland Inrnilhed the braved, hardieß, and bell behaved foldiers in the army; but in future all thole inclined to a military life would be idle at home in tome Mili tia Corps. The Secarraxv at Wait laid the arguments of the Honourable Gentleman went againit the Mi litia altogether. If our Conflituttian and our Fi nances would permit, he allowed that a large (landing army might, for many purpofes, be more , lerviceable ; but, confidering the many °Nees we , had in view, betides military Brengel), a militia! was preferable, and had always been preferred.-1 He regretted that the fyftem was fu late in being extended to Scotland. In former wars Fencible Corps had been railed in that part of the Ifland, who were not fo ufeful, and who impeded the re cruiting of the army as much. He was willing to allow a high degree of military ardour to Scot land, without however any difparagement to the two lifter kingdoms ; but, if it was fo military, t 2,00 0 men (the greatelt number of Militia that could at any time be railed) would not prevent the regiments of the line bc:ng recruited from that country. It was unfair to reafon from the difficul ties which had been experienced during the pre fent war, as at the beginning of it we had fearcely any army at all, and as the belt means, he had no difficulty in laying, had not been taken to form one. Mr. WINDHAM oblirved, that he concurred en tirely with his Honourable Friend as far as he went, hut he himfelf fhould go Rill farther, and exprefs, unequivocally, his dilapprobation of the whole dlyive Vent. Inilead of the Militia, who were of little ureto us in our infillar fituation, he would have a Standing Army; fit for all purpofes. He did not fpeak of the Scotch Militia, but lithe Englilh Militia too. At all events, if not utterly abolithed, he fhould wilh to fee them very much fhort indeed of what they had been of late years. The Bill was then ordered to be read a third time on Wednefday. POLICE BILL. On the Motion for the Commitment of the Po lice Bill, Lord W. Ru suit. laid, he had very great ob jabot's to it. But as he was not fanguine enough to hope that thole objections would prevail,he pro poled as an expedient which would leffen their weight, that the MAgiftrates, like the Jndges, thould hold their offices—tuamdig fe hew gsfiript. The ATTORNEY GENERAL oblerved, that the proper place to make this propofal was the Com mittee. He Mould not now difcufs it, but he law very great incoaveniencies which it would produce if adopted. The Houle then went into a Committee, and the falaries of the Magillrates were fixed at cool. a year, and the wages of the Melfengers at t6s. a week. The report on Wednellty.. 1E5106110E Of THE CLERGY. Sir WM. Score moved the Order of the Day for the Houfe to refolve itfelf into a Committee to confider further of the Report of the Cominit tee on the Clergymen's Non-Refidence Bill. Upon the quellion for the Speaker's leaving the Chair, Mr. SI M EON laid, that however much he might feel hunfell unqualified to oppofe the arguments of the Learned Gentleman who introduced this he thought it his duty to refilt a meafure'which tended not only to dedroy all former Statutes, but alfu entirely to change the Cotillitution of the Church, by lodging an enormous power in'the hinds •of the Ilithops. The Right Hon. Gentle man who brought forward this meafure, had pre faced it with an account of the profligacy of the Clergy, and other caufes which led to the forma tion of the Statute of Henry VIII: and had then concluded, that-as this profligacy had ceafed, the Statute ought alto to be abrogated. Bt.phe flionld recolleZl, that the Statute had been approved by the molt eminent characters—Lord Coke, among others. After it had reformed the abufes it had been framed to check,. it was always looked upon as an excellent preventative of the recurrence of abides. • The rigour of tht. Statute had been com plained of; but it was to be remarked that this had Kneen gradually abating, and the lapfc of time had entirely thrown iu influence into , the reale of the offenders. It was in fart even at hat a mitigation of the CanoWlsaw, which under the fevereft• pe.l nalties prohibited Pluralities, and enjoined reft denee. Before. .therefore removing thit, Statute on account of its rigour, it was to be confidered whether the Canon Laws were not !till in force, and ready on the removal of this fuhtlitote, to re turn with tenfold rigour. He owned, that the new Bill proxidedta very good remedy againd fe verity, but this was joined to a degree of power placed in the hands Of the Bilbops, which ought to be Urenuoully refifted. It gave an enormous I I* • jeaed the inferior Clergy, if net to aaual Leery, ' at lea( to a very improper degree of influence. It was alfo improper to (ketch the idea of perfonal , accommodation beyond the limits prefcrtbed by the Laws of the Land. No infances had been ad duced to prove that the penalties of the Statute had been made to apply to cafes for which they were not otiginally intended. Ore inflance, in deed, had been adduced, where the Clergyman was condemned to the penalties of the Statute for not retiding in a houfe not inhabitable. But he mull beg leave to queflion the propriety of this de cifion, as fuch a cafe could not be tualy conftrued into wilful ablence, and confequently did not fall under the provifions of the Statute. With regard to the Mule in the Bill, which allowed a greater degree of latitude to Clergymen in the article of Farming, he contended that if it were adopted, it would (tiredly tend to fecutsrize the Clergy; it would completely alter their fituation in fociety. By the vatting Statute they were allowed to cultivate a glebe, and likewife a farm under cer ' tain reftriEtions ; and this was as much as could be allowed confifently with the icatitutions of the Church, which were founded on the Gofpel. But the provilion held forth in the Bill as an en ' largement of their privileges was in reality an abridgement of them. It took away from them the tight they formerly poffeflid of cultivating their glebe, and allowed them in place of this right, a licence from a Bifhop. The licence might, indeed, be more extended, if the Bifhop chofe it, than their right had been; but there was 4 great difference between an independent right, and a 1 dependent licence. It was wrong to place to great a difcretionary power in the hands of an indivi dual. Bilhops were men, and would Well an as they had done in all former times ; tome would. make a proper ufe of their power and others an improper. If the Clergy were thus forced to de pend on the favour of a Bifhop, their political freedom was for ever 1011. With regard to the claufe which allowed a greater latitude of non-re fidence, he Paid, that this was far from being a proper remedy for the diftreffes of the inferior clergy. As loon as the finances of the State would allow it, he fhould be happy to fee a large addi tion made to Q2een Ann's bounty, in order to refcue a learned, worthy, and laborions dais of men front poverty. This was the true remedy that ought to be applied, and not the encouraging plu ralities by allowing . greater latitude of non-refi dence. For if an increafe of pluralities and a greater latitude of non-refidence were allowed, what would become of religion? 4 fermon en Sunday was far from comprehending the whole duties of a clergyman; he was alto fill more bound to initial& the ignorant in the principles of reli gion, to comfort the unfortunate in the hour of affiaion, to raife the defponding heart at the ap proach of death, and to promote the interehs of morality and religion by the example of his life and converfation. The immediate drat' of non relidcnce would be to divide the pittances of the clergy into fill fmaller portions, by halving them with curates; and infinitely to increafe the. number of poorer clergy, by the multiplied curacies that mint inevitably attend on the multiplied pinrali JI - ties. Mr. Simeon concluded with laying, that although he could not cape& that his arguments lliould have fuch influence as to carry the Houfe along`'witli them, yet he was &tithed in having brought the fubjea into difcuffion, and called the attention of the public to a matter of fuch ' portance. The CiIANCiLLOR of the Exentoarait raid, that the arguments of the Hon. and Learned Gentle man applied rather to certain claufes than to the principle of the Bill, and would therefore come better in the CoMmittee. As the objc.ll of the Bill was to proteet a moll refpeaable dais of men from vexatious profecutionc, and as it was prepared and introduced by his Learned Friend from motives which could fpring from no other foorce than a Itrong fenfe of public duty, he. trufted the Houfe would not ad fo ungraciouily as to refill its progrefs in this late Rage. It was not a tneafure obtruded on the Houfe. but one which was called fox by the al molt unanimousfentinhent ofttie Hot fe itself. anti by the voice of the belt men in the countri, who felt for the fufferings of the clergy, and thought it iiccef fary to make comfortable provirson fur the lower clafs, of whom he thougbt highly. ;lath, the Concur red with the Hon. Gentleinan ; and he regrcaed that it was impo tale is the courfe ofthisSe ffion to arrange that bonnet's, or to combine it With this Bill; which, in fad, was only a isart of a great fyftcm in con templation refpefting R..ligion and thb Clergy, ' who as a body. were from their conduit, and par ticularly from the principles they had manifelled sning•the laft nine or ten years, llrongly entitled to the refpelt and approbatim of Parliament.— Gratitude therefore ftrengtbened the claims of po hey and jultice in favour of thole among them who pottered inadequate revenue.—No money could in his opinion be more ufefully applied, than to the relief df fuch men ; to promote religion it fell, it was wife to make jtc - Mintacrs at leafl independent— that religion, without which, however we might rely on the ability of our ltatefmen,or the courage of our warriors, it would be vain to look for na tional tranquillity and liappinefs—without it, our fecurity would reft isiion a rotten balls. In order, therefore, to forward the interefts of that valeta- Me blelling, it was intended to increale the places of public worfhip in thofe diftridls, where the po pulation had increafed, and by giving a compe tence to all chilies of the clergy, encourage them in the exercise of their duty. Mr. M. A. Tavtoe obferved, that all this might be very proper • but he did not wetly fee what it had to do with the prefent bill, and he certainly Mould not be led away by fuch mifplueod.oratory. Instead of amending the ftatitte of Henry VIII. he maintained that this bill virtually tepealed it. He had the honour to be in habits of intimacy with many of the Bilhops, and he believed them all to he honourable men ; but he would not en fruit this power to any fet of men , fu circum flanced. The , Refidence of the Clergy would not be enforced. The Bilhops, like all other men, mon be fubjeet to influence, to partiality, and to prejudice. Duties were much fairer judges of fuch IT and that the governMent of the church fhotsld he left in the heads of the church. But bad not the law flood as it now is from the time of Henry VIII. for near three centuries, and while Lord Coke and other great lawyers had commanded it, it had not been complained of by a tingle divine.-- Who paid the Clergy f The laity. If he gave poi. a year to a miniller, ought it to be with 4 Bilhop to fay whether he ought to have a minif y or not i There were many cafes of non-relidenee defers ing of exemplary puniffiment, but the abut - cc would not be corrcicd. The beneficed ploralla would (till have pantiles they had never feen, while perhaps, thole who were poor and independ cE would be oppreffed. ' The Masi. cr. of the /tents obferved, that the objeftion of the Lilt Speaker to this Bill was, that it would virtually repeal the flatute of Henry the Eighth ; while his objeEdion to it was, that at did not totally repeal that ltatute—st Itatute which, from its nature and charatter, mutt bo wholly in efficient or intolerably °poi-drive. It did not pro. vide for the residence of the Clergy by the coa- Randy operating fuperintendance and infpeetio a of any refponfible perfon, but left all to accident or the caprice of an informer, inflead of Yelling that power in the Bifficps, which the Bill before the Houle very properly did--of enforcing or difpenfing in certain cafes with the refidence of the Clergy ; a power for the faithful and wife exc eption of which a the Houle had fufficient guarait. tee in the high and enlightened charaers of th e BiNops of this country. If the statute of Henry the Eighth were to exit} ever fo long, it would only be executed by fits and flans, for it was the inlereft of the informer to allow a haryea crime to be colleadl before be began to reap ; and if it was never executed at all, if it lay dormant for ever, there was no one to charge with neglea of duty but the common informer. The number of prolecutions tome time fince for non-refidence, which an Honourable Gentleman bad argued upon * a proof of the neceffity for the Statute of Henry the VIII. he thought rather more a proof of the inefficiency of that law. The Bill before the Hotife very properly propofed to do away the unzootrouled jutifdillioo of the Courts of Law in thefe cares, and to transfer the Govern ment of the Clergy to thole who were entrulled with the Government of the Church kirk: The Courts of Law could only enforce the mere corporeal pretence °fate Clergyman. He would fuppofe a cafe of two Clergymen before fuch a Tri bunal, one of whom could prove that he flept it 4 the parfonage-houre—no matter how' web he might have . 'negleaed his duty,' lie would quitted z—while another who had faithfully 'exe-: cuted all tie duties of his ttuatiim, Wit 'Mould 4- pear that he flept only three doors from his parr would be feat away loaded with penalties. 'What Monfirotis injull4e ! What an ablugity in Legit; lation I What, he would alit, would the Houle think of the prcpefition of a law to enloree the re lidence of the OffiCers of the Army or Malty, by a trial in a,Court of LAW Z. and why 40u1t.1 . 00t .the Clergy have the regulatnah of their 'Own 44iPling as well as other proleffions f—He law no—reafoli againfl it. It was fo in the Scotch Church, ind yd the Clergy there were not charged with the ieglea r of their dutf.. 'He hoped to fee the daz when not a vestige of the' Aft of Henry tbe'Eightli would remain ; even if it were -efficacious, h would be degrading to the chat:aaer of the Clergy to allow it to exist. By that teak Of legifiation, the Cler gyman was placed in a world 'fituation than the (muggier ; the latter could not 'hi; profecuted at the mere will of an informer, the 'esa,ufe mutt be previoully reviled by the Officers of tile Zcvenue ; but the Clergyman was entirely at the ftic?4Y, the qui tam informer. From there confiderattons the Right Hon. Gentleman was induced to fupport the prelent Bill, which' Was ao experiment to try' I whether the Clergy could not attend to their duty without the interference of Courts of Law ; and without lubje&ing them to the yifitation of Qom mon informers. Mr. M. A. TAYLOR faid a few words in expla nation, relative to what he obferved regarding the statute of the Sad of Henry VIII. The ATTORNEY GENERAL fupported the motion for recommitting the Bill ; but declared, that if it should conic out of the Committee without corgi derable amendments, he would not feel dill:ruled to favour its ultimate adoption. He was aware that the complaints of the Clirgy againft the Sta tute of Henry the Eighth, were iii come degree juit ; but of this he was certain, that a great deal of clamour arofe our of a few cafes' that were harfh, which produced a Bill to protest many other cafes that were not harfh at all. Mr. WINDHAM confidered the aft of Henry the Eighth as difcreditable to the church, for by giv. in g to the Civil Tribunals the power to enforce dt• residence of the Clergy, it pallid an indired cen lure upon thole who were at the head of theChurck eftablifhment: It was a. departure from the pra:Etice of all other profeflions,and of all other Chi Man Nations. He was unwilling to expofe the Clergy to prakeutions 'in : Courts of Law. There was a fpecies of baiting to which he was not an enemy, (a laugh); but he did not With that bull-dogs in white wigs and black gowns fhould be let at the Clergy to bait them. • It was faid, that the Bill be. fore the Houk would reduce the Clergy to a !late of flaverr—for his part, he would not like to fee the Church democratic, and therefore he could not think It very revere on the lower C!erg). to be is fttbleftion to their Bilhops, and obliged to attend to their clerital duties. . The quzilion,'“ That the Houfe do now refo!re itfelf into a Committee," was then put and carri..d. the Committee n number of difficulties Arcl . c. as was forefcen and Rated by Mr. Addington, from the Chairman reading the original Copy. whilß the amended Dill was in the hands of the Members A converfation of a moft defulto?y nature enfued, in which moft of the Members who fpoke wets: at leatt twenty times on their kg , . We'can only touch upon the principal points in debate. On the claufe which e xempts elerg men, a,gaina whom verthas had been obtained, from the , pay ,ment of any thing more than a fink penalty cf wed-At swith. enec tt.sa_nov.kaitts,..A.4l..• .h.