Star. — London, England, 1815-02-22 00:00:00

oily to trod that the House would • be , of opinion, chit it was not right to go abstractedly into this 10- 1 leery question, and so thinking, he would move, as . ane ndmetu, that the House should now proceed. to the other Orders of the Day. 'l'lte CHANCELLOR. at the EXCHEQUER rose amidst the loudest acclamations from the oppo sition benches. lie said he fully agreed with the Honourable Gentleman who moved the question,. that no apology was necessary for the very able and honourable and manly manner in which he had stood forward as the champion of what he supposed to be the sullied fame and injured honour of the country.— All, however, which he (the Right Hon. Gentleman) must contend for was, that this is not the prep: r time to come to a discussion of the subject. He was sure it was the wish of Ministers to have an opportunity of exculpating themselves from such serious charges, es much as it could be that of the Honourable Gen :leman that they should do so. Dut it would be :m --possible to enter upon such a discussion without slicking a variety of particulars which ought not to be disclosed. One circumstance, however, required ;erne notice. Notwithstanding the apprehensions of the Honourable Member, all the allegations that the national ho:wur had been compromised, the national character stained, and the public faith violated, he atuld take upon himself positively to deny. He would be able to stew when the time arrived, that 3othing whatever had occurred to degrade the high character and dignity of this country. He could have wished, however, that his Honourable Friend (Colo. T eo Wood) had not moved the amendment for pas• .:ng to the orders of the day, because he thought it a erode not sufficiently respectful to meet the motion of lee Honourable Gentleman oppo site : i he would there we beg of him to withdraw it, n order that he (the Right Hon. Gentleman) might move the 'previous question. Colonel Worm accordingly withdrew his motion, and the CHANCELLOiI of the EXCIIIQUEft moved the previous question. Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH said, be would give his hearty support to the motion of his Horaour- Able Friend (Mr. Lambton), who had in his elo. • quent speech a second time so ably redeemed his he redttery reputation. If he ever had any doubt whe. ther there ever was a case which so loudly called for the interposition of Parliament to rescue the national honour from the foulest aspersions, he was convinced of it completely, by the manner in which Ministers had resisted the motion. They said that flwy were more anxious for being brought to trial than their accusers were : yet they sought anxiously to protract the fatal day, and on this preliminary question for delay the House must meet them. The charge against Ministers was not that they have done one impolitic act, but that all their impolitic acts must sink into insignificance, when compared with that which relates to the polluted honour of the country. This charge was the most serious that ever was made against any Ministers of this kingdom—it was not passible to imagine any one more grave, except it was for an act that militated against the liberties of the couetry. The charge consists in their having been guilty of a gross act. of injustice, in transferring a mazy for whose security they bad given a pledge . ; end they had made England a principal actor to committing the perfidious transaction. And he be. Leven, from the bottom of his heart, and in the sin ecr:ty of his soul, that nothing equal to it had oc curred since the infamous partition and plunder of Mond had given-an example which had been inhe teed by the notch Revolutionists, whose atrocities stem only to havechanged their seat, without chang ig their nature. The question of their perfidy to eat& Genoa would not admit of any defence, and Ministers must either deny that their faith was ever ,pledged, or they must deny that it had been vio •lated. . The House must inquire into and know their motives for this violation of faith, and learn whether .auy circumstances ran justify such a breach of the ennaion principles of justice. He would challenge teem to produce a single example, whertin such Ito tolcreuce on the part of any rover to destroy the It. bertha of another had been justified. Ministers were involved in a dilemma, from which it was impossible they could escape. ould they find an excuse in pre- Tate papers for. a breach of public faith ; or did they mean to contend there was something of more impor tance than public faith ? He wished to know on which point they meant to make their stand—one of :them they must take, for there existed no third alter and than the first, nothing could be more ab urd; than the second, nothing more abominable.— No good reason could be assigned for not giving the i.apers called for on this subject—no public inconveo oience could arise from their production. If any partiorlar paper were objected to, let the motion be germ:el.—all that was required was, that certain rapers should be laid before the House, explanatory ul the cession of Genoa; to she w on what foundation that change in the European system had taken place. He was not sorry to observe the manner in which what he had offered on this subject was received by the Gentleman opposite. From their looks it should seem they anticipated a triumph. He wished such .m . ight beam event—but, once for all, he gave it as 1 " , opinion, that they had it not in their power satis factorily to answer what lied this night been urged. . Tie had now disposed of the plea urged. to delay pro ceeding to trial. To trial Ministers had admitted they um go on this subject, and this he could tell them I .! i t . d been anti c i pate d b y t h e greater part o f Europe. • Abe national honour and due regard for public jos. t ti .k lice required t h at an i mmed i ate investigation should ". Ile preferred a substantive charge against nesters for the cession of Genoa. In support of 11 " 5 he would :cad to the House a passage from the , l 'Oarks of a publi c wr i ter u f great aut h or i t y, on the 'Etta of nations, which applied to the case of Genoa 4 , !. closely as if it h a d b een w r it te n with foresight 2 . the arrangement now under consideratien.— he lion —Ind Learned Gentleman then read from lintel a passage against 44 taking for either of the li',a•ers which m a y h ave b een engage d i n a war, the t aories continued front the enemy, of which a ti, ird party m a y have been unjustly dt prived. The r "Ole thus despoiled of their liberty would never de , i? ) aly of r ecover i ng i t. Victory ought to b e use d not !„ Change their mast ers , b et to b rea k their chains.”— i :le people of Genoa had been victims to the corn k..." enemy, not efllnders against the other powers v;_3 i c up)pe. The treatment they had experienced, he d say, was mijust and immotel, and an abuse ' 1 the rights of conquest, which ought to be univer 'sally ctintieftined. Had Portugal not risen AO* fight, for het rights as she had done, he would ask, would 'she ton have been disposed of to the highest bidder t Would this principle have been adopted with respect: to Sicily and Holland, and the powers which formed the Confederation of the Rhine ? Would it be bide the Great Allied Powers did n‘t consider the Princes of Germany entitled of right to their territories ? Were they new to learn, that they were held by the. precarious tenure of the generosity of their neigh bours ? Beside these considerations of • generouty, l and policy which ought to have interposed in favour; of the Genoese, they had pledges in the former con. duct of the Allies that their republic would be respec ted. In September, 1805, the Austrian Government had published a note, complaining of the annexation ; of Genoa to France as a substantive cause of war and on the 16th of .Tune, in the same year, the Rus. sian Minister, M. Novulitzow, who had been sent by his master to mediate betwet:n Great Britain and France, had protested against this measure in the strongest manner. This, he wished it to be observed, was atter . Napoleon had attained the imperial dig nity. After he had subjugated Switzerland, by en tering it as a mediator; alter he had annexed Lom bardy to France, to pave his way to the crown of, Italy. It had been preceded by the deaths of d'En. ghien, Pichegru, and Toussaint, and many others. It was after all these things were known that the Russian Minister had attempted to mediate between the two countries; but when the course pursued wish respect to Geneva was published, he informed the' French Government, that his master had, in his pre vious conduct, proved how desirous he was of rests ring peace to Europe; but this l a st act WAS so sub versive of every principle of justice, that it was im possible to continue his mediation any longer. 'rids conduct on the part of the Emperor of Russia lied not been adopted at the suggestion of England ; but it was the spontaneous movement of his own breast. After this, could th e G enoese h ave b een prepared for such an arrangement as had now keen made The The preamble to the Treaty of Chaumont described the object of the Allies to be, a peace which would secure the rights and liberties of all the Continen tal States. It was not their avowed object to secure the independence of the generality of them ; but that of all was guaranteed by the assembled Majesties of Europe. Where were the Ambassadors who had concluded that Treaty ? Hew had they looked to the observance of it, when an infraction of it had al ready taken place with respect to Genoa? Other pledges had been given besides those to which lie had before referred, that the republic of Genoa should be respected. England, in 1302, had refused to recognize the Ligurian Republic, and had requi red that she should resume her ancient name and form of Government. The arrival of Lord William Bentinck in their vicinity, towards the close of the late war, they had hailed with much satisfaction, and had then agreed to that which England required of them in 180'2. No compact could be more deli. berately made, and the pledge given that the inde pendence of the States of Europe should be secured, applied in a peculiar manner to the Republic of Lord William Bentinck was a man who un derstood the force of language, and, after the procla mation lie had issued, could it have been expected that Genoa was to be outlawed ? Yet after his pro clamation came that of General Dalrymple, and this was followed by that of the King of Sardinia, who tells the Genoese lie comes to take possession of their country—not in compliance with their ancient laws; not in consequence of the wishes of the people, not by right of conquest, but in conformity with the wishes of the principal Sovereigns of Europe." In other words, lie came in conformity with that spirit which had directed the partition of Poland. A case like this being established, he could see no advantage could he derived from delay. If the sittings of the Coonress were closed, it might not be of great im portance whether Ministers were convicted of that laid to their charge a few months sooner or later; but, charged in the face of all Europe with an act of the most flagrant injustice and faithlessness (he spoke advisedly) . that had ever occurred in the civilized world, he thought it the duty cf . the Commons of England to interfere, and he called upon the House to express their sense of it with a voice that must be heard, and which might possibly yet withdraw the assent of Ministers from it. He had been absent from the country during the sittings of the House, and his pride bad been flattered by the admiration felt for this country as the guardian of liberty. How ever the minority in that House might be despised by the Right Honourable Gentleman with his majo rities, all Europe felt gratitude for its exertions. lie then recapitulated the principal arguments which he had urged in the course of his speech, lied concluded strongly insisting on the propriety and -necessity of an immediate inqury into the merits of the case. Mr. %V. POLE thought, if any doubt before exis ted as to the object of this discussion, the speech of the Honourable Gentleman who had just sat down must have proved that it was only meant to be the vehicle of censure on the whole proceedings of the Congress at Vienna, without having a single docu ment before them, or any thing to go upon but the mere conjectures of-the Gentlemen opposite—(liter. : hear.) Yet, under these circumstances, they did not hesitate to arraign all that might have been done, was now doing, and hereafter to be done, and to bestow on it the most opprobrious terms. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had said what lie (Mr. W. Pole) nor repeated, that when the proper papers could be laid before Parliament, which was at present imprac ticable, no one would he more anxious than he would be to bring the whole businessunderthe consideration of the House. He characterioci the conduct of the Gentlemen opposite, on this occasion, as a party ma noeuvre. With this he did not quarrel—he considered it to be fair; but it was not to be expected that Mi nisters would give in to it, and play their opponents' game. Because they did not do this, it was not bur to assume that they knew themselves to be guilty. To assert this was unfair ; Ministers wished for no protection from Parliament —all they desired was justice. They only desired to postpone the ie. quiry, because it was at present impossible a fair state ment of the case could be Lid before the House.— Whenever it could be brought fully under their con sideration, his Right Hon. Friend stood pledged to. count discussion, nit only on the affairs of Genoa,. but also on those of Saxon, and Poland. He denied that Ministers had differed on any of the gre at . clue s . tions which had come under *lir WM14441011 WWII their Noble Colleague (Lori •Catttereagh). Tire Noble Lord s it war true, hod more merit than his colleagues—they had thrown more of the- but then on him; but when he came home, he Was confilent he would be foremost to lay eves; informatiiin 6:f we them, and anxious to take the sense of the House on all the proceedings. The Honourable and Learned Gentleman had set out with declaring it to be Lis in tention to argue on the injustice of the case, leaving the policy of it out of the question. He, however, before he sat down, had given the House a tolerably good dissertation OR its policy. MIS proVekt that the two questions were inseparable; and Oiettfote he hoped the HontturahleGentlemari (Mr.Landnon) would consent to postpone the discusst.in. Tiw Ho nourable and L•mrned Geode:lran had said, it was admitted by Ministers that this case must go to trial. lie admitted that they were sensible enquiry would; be necessary, but he denied that a case had been' made out against them. He had said that they could have done nothing worse than that which they . had done, unless they had entered into a conspiracy against the liberties of their country. This also he . would deny, and he did not hesitate to express the' fullest confidence that they would stand acquitted, not perhaps by the Hon. and Learned Gnitlernan _ _ and his friends, but by the House, whenever the day of enquiry should arrive. Sir J. MACKINTOSH explained. Mr.W Hint READ could not yield to the request of the Honourable Colonel, to postpone this discus. sion in the absence of the Noble Lord, and felt it his slaty to animadvert as freely on the facts which had come out, as if he were present. He wished to know it the Right Hon. Gentlern in could deny the Pro:l4- m ttioas of Lord Bentinck and General Da!rymple ? If they could not, was it to be said that they took up these matters on mere conjecture, as if they it id t tken their information from letters, like close sent through the north of Irelane, setting forth the iustneese re. sponsibili , y thrown on the Noble Lord, or like those private letters from Vienna, which spoke el silence as desirable on the part of Ministe: s for the present, as Lord Castlereagh had sent special instructions home that they should not, by answering questions, expose th-mselves as they d d before C h ristmas (4 laugh.)—He begged the House to bear in mind the pledges which the Right Hon. Gentleman who seoke last, and, as he said, the Chancellor of the Exchequer had given, that all the Papers necessary to the discussion of the affairs of Genoa, Saxony and Poland, should be produced. The Right Hon. Gm demon had said they ought to wait till the whole proceedings of the Congress could be laid behtre them ; but this the Congress itself, by the acts which had preceded its breaking up, had made it impossible. He was above wishing for a triumph over Ministers, and would rather have to applaud them, as be had done last ye:tr.—(llear, hear.) He wished he might be able to praise them, though be feared he should feel it his duty to condemn them for one of the foulest acts of injustice ever committed. Convinced that policy and justice were inseparable, he felt the conduct pursued with respect to Genoa, as it was one of the worst clinics that hadever been per. petrated, was also one of the greatest instances of po litical folly that hal ever occurred. The Right Hon. Gentleman did not take the line adopted before Christmas, that of endeavouring to shake the audio rity of the documents produced or referred to by Gentlemen on that side of the House. Ile did not attempt to throw a doubt on the proclametions of Lord William Betitinck and Genera Dalrymple, nor on that by which they had been followed from Vic. tor Emanuel, in which he proclaimed that he tools possession of their country in conformity with the wishes of the principal Sovereigns of Europe ; though he had not yet been able to take possession of it, and he for one fervently hoped this never would be in his power. He proceeded to contrast the conduct formerly pursued with respect to Italy when Lord Bentinck was sent out by the Marquis of Wellesley to effect a Revolution, when the Italian prisoners were liberated to forward that object, and a cor respondence opened with Secret Societies, and the Societies of Free Masons in that country...—. Then the man was named whom England proposed to place at the head of the Italians—their deputies were received here, and they were promised liberty. They had now, however, been treated worse by the Allies than they formerly were by Bonaparte. Would to Goo he could speak of the Sovereigns of Austria, Russia, and Prussia, as he could some time ago, when they were at Paris! But they had now des cended Irons the eminence on which they then stood to become hucksters and tricksters for territory. The Geneese had been prriaised dick liberty by the Agents of England ; they had been promised that the Constitution of 1576 should be restored with such mo difications as time had made necessary. It was pro posed that an English Officer should hold the Go vernment of Genoa till the Ist of January, 1815. At that time he was to lay it down, and England, by. putting them in possession of their ancient rights, was to prove that her professions were sincere—that she had fought for the liberties of Europe. But before this period arrived, the protocol of the Congress at Vienna was produced, dated December 12, 1814, which disposed of Genoa to the King of Sardinia.— . He contended, that this injustice had been done to give Victor Emanuel weakness rather than streng . th. • He had announced that he came to take possession of the country, but General Dalrymple had said, " Don't send your soldiers there, or they will getl their throats cut." The Kirg of Sardinia premised the Genoese a Constitution, commerce, and that they should pay no taxes which were not imposed on them by a representative government—provided they were made by his direct authority equ deo those paid by' the Piedniontese. So, in the first instance, the King of Sardinia, by his own direct authority, was to raise their taxes higher than ever they had been before, and then to give diem a body of representatives, and a Chancellor of the Exchequer, to find the ways and means for heaping new leitlens on them. He thins noticed the dependent Mite in which the King of Sardinia must stand with respect to A ustria, who had already attempted to get possession of 'l'urin. They were desired to.wait the return: of the Noble Lord before they discussed the proceedings if the Con gress. It they might judge of ugliness by his toot, what a whole must they shortly expect to behold ! After animadverting on the proposition for placing the King of Saxony over Catholic subjects on the left bank of the Rhine, rather than let him reign over Protestants that loved him on tbr Elbe, be again, 'filled the necezitty of interference nit depart of that House. %yid, respect to Poland, die view was u. t eitistactxy. It had been said, he hoped falsely, that when this subject had been mentioned, the Cmprrt►r of Russia ha i given this laconic answer, 66 that he I f id five hundred thousand men to support his claim ;" this answer was stmilar to the cold-hearted speech, said to have been made with respect t Genoa 66 Les republiques nc soot plus x 1.1 mode--Repitb lics are no longer the fashion." The House, how ever, w►.ts told to wait till Lord Castlereagb came aid) the l'Apets, wliich were promised. While wait ing lot his ieturii, it was t b t0.41:,d the (nisch', f would be clone, and the views (It Au,:ria, Russia and prus.i.l c:+•ried into (deer with respect to Italy, Pi,. land and S ►army. The t i 'use would desert its duty, if it did not inlibt on the proluction of the papers. He then alluded to the anecdote which the Chancel• for of the Exchequer had related yesterday respecting Air. Burke. Abe war to which it referred, had been conducted by those at the head of atf..os at the time, in a very different manner Irom tl:at latrly concluded. there was any sincerity in th:! splendid . . which be had heard that Gentl..inal utter in that House, he would now, were he living, units.; fe should belie hi, own professions, himself' tell Ministers that their proceeding towards Genoa WAS a com pound of folly and iniquity. Mr. B. BATHURS 1' contended, that the A mend. ment which had been moved did not in any manner negative the general question; it merely went to sub stitute another time, which would be more convenient tor the discussion than die present one. When that time should come, lie had no donht that the Honor able Meniba's (Mr. Whitbread's) information, uprn which he so contidentiy relied, would be found with. out any foundation, as it mo,tiy was. (Hear, hear, from Mr. Whitbread).—Much had ben said about the presence of the Noble Lord ; but were it possible, Iby any pincer, th.it the Noble Lord could transport himself from Vienna to London one day, and Irons London to Vienna another, it would not make one iota of difference as to the course hat ought to be pursued. While such momentous questions were in agitation at the Congress, the good sense of .hat House would stop the Noble Lord, supposing it possible that he could be present and willing to camniunicate what the Emperor of Russia said one day, what the King of Prussia might say on another, and what Prince Harelenberg on a third. Yet a similar course was what the Honourable Member wished stiould be pur sued, in order that the minority of that House might decide the matters which were pending, and, to use his own lingu.ip,e, interrupt the march of the Congress. (Hear, hear, from Mr. Whitbread and Mr. 'ileum)). He w.ts cheered by the iionoinal.;:e Member and the Honourable Mover of the question ; and perhaps such proceedings might suit the ardour of their minds. With regard to the distinguished individual to whom the management of those important concerns was confided, it would not be easy to fiad a person more peculiarly qualified for the arduous post—a character so mixed up of firmness in principle, and yet of con ciliation in atantier, that it was equally impossible to subdue the one or to ruffle the other. He believed his Noble Friend would be found to have supported the character and honour of this country in those ne geciations to as high a pitch as they had ever at tained. The Honourable Gentleman had admitted, himself, that it would he impossible to discuss the que ition of Genoa without undoing or retarding the proceedings of the Congress ; and that very admission was an argument for not going into the matter now. It was not, indeed, proper to discuss such questions imperfectly. The linn. Gentleman had said, that he should look to his Right Hon. Friend (W. Pole) for the production of certain papers, if there should be any attempt to withhold them manifested by the Noble Lord on his return ; now he would venture to affirm, that not a word was said by his Right Hon. Friend of any papers respecting Saxony and Poland —(L9nd and reiteiatd eh.•:rs fi Lin the Oftluaitirt.) he certainly would affirm it—(Hear, hear, from Mr. ‘Vhitbread.)—Did the Honourable Genii/min mean to imply that he was utaling an untruth Whitbread certainly not.") —With regard to the motion then before them, its only object was to ob tain two Proclamations issued by two British Officers —(Hear, hear, from the Oppeeitioa.)—He was aware that certain instructions were added; but they were not before the public; and it was only the documents that were before the public on which the discussion then turned. It had been aserted that the honour of the country was comproinised ; but in reply to that it was affirmed that no such compromise had taken place; and in commin justice therefore the judgment of the House 0u . :,.,ht to he suspended till the time should an we when a full and complete ex planation night be given with propriety. For these reasons he should susport the amenthoent. Mr. W. POLE explained. What he stated, or meant to state, was, that when his Noble Friend came home, he had no doubt he would take the earliest opportunity of commuiiioting ample information, not only with rsspect to Genes, but of Poland, Sax ony, and {every other put where Great Britain was at all concerned in the transactions. He repeated again, therefore, that it was his opinion no informa tion would be withheld, but the Hon. Gentleman would not talte i hirn nu filed de knee, and suppose that every secret and confidential dispatch would be laid before the House. Mr. WHITBREAD explained. With respect to the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Bathurst) he had cheered him, not because l e doubted what he heard, but because he knew what he (Mr. Whitbread) heard. As to the explanation of the other Right Honourable Gentleman he was not at all disappointed ; and he knew too much of Ministers to take any thing which they said u /tied d /eon. Mr. HORNER took a view of the conairet of the British Government towards Gen:i.t. He began by stating, that if the House rightly telt the question then before them, they would be aware that it de pended in no manner whatever upon any information with respect to the proceedings of Congress. He certainly did not underttand the doctrine of the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. l'athurst), that the House of Commons had no right to interfere in any acts resulting from Negotiations still in progress. Would it be said that it was not the duty el tbat House, when a measure had been adopted which in volved the honour and good faith of the country, to raise its voice, and, if possible, stop the course of those proceedings which tended to degrade the Bri tish natac 3—(Hew, hear)--He would boldly tiaras