Star. — London, England, 1815-02-23 00:00:00

awao-. rumen and not the growers. It was justly obser by Adam Smith, that the questions which must always be acquiesced in are those which relate to reli gious opinions and the necessaries of life. He was confident that the price now proposed was laid too higli. 7 It was impossible that' the importation of fn. reign corn could produce the injury described ; for it hid been -admitted and proved that the whole an nual quantity did not exceed one-fortieth part of the consumption, it was impossible that this one part could affect the price of the thirtyanine, though- that of the latter-might affect the price of the one parr.- - There were Certainly same causes which had operated of fate to affect the quantity consumed ' • one of these was the tetion of the gr eat- number of prisoners-of war, who:amounted to about 100,00 G. This must have hid someeffeet. Another tense was . the num ber of persons-who had gime from this -country to visit the Continent, and who might amount to 50 or Go;000:- -The combined effect produced by -this cifithge must- have produced more effect thin hid been counteracted by the importation •foreign Ccani *this is the casei we are likely to have bread cheapest Indic encouragement is given to the•landed interest-td continue the price at 80s. it could not be eipeCted that they -would make any great reduction in their rents. He thought that this was no more a lint-to settle the price of bread orrent, titan to settle what should-be the eipetices-bf the Peace Establish.? meet, which the Right Hon. Gentltotan opposior bid said-ceeld not 'be ascertained for four or five - :yeas to cottle;---(NO, too, from the Mincsterill BAch,Y fie was -of opinion, that before the House should separate for the .summer recess, the price, of bread, Which- we are.now eating at nearly a shilling, w'buld be nearer to eighteen:pence than to that ptice. He-wished the House would- agree to go into a Com mittee on the subject, wherein clause by clause might be distussed. Me. ROSE would advise the House against going into a Committee. The matter had. already been udder consideration two ot three different times. A Committee had sat, and made a Report, and the Honourable Gentleman- now sayi the House must shunt- their ears agaihst its contents. He was as minions a friend to the price of corn being as low as pirssible, as-any man could be, and this too, without such low price being injurious to the gra:Yes; and for this• reason he wished for a full and free dis eitssiart. o ' • ".' •• ' " ' Colonel GORE LIS.NGTON said, that being cdustWins of the rectitude of his Intent-jogs, he would d ride the House upon the qaestion of the Speaker leavfng - theAtiik. • • - MA-0/11,CRAFT was of opinion that discussion would afford the hest mode of placing the subject in Orbpote: . •-- ••# • THEROlthiught that instead of the Ifnhobrabie Meinber•oppriiing the Speaker leaving the ' the pre,perest steiiwrititt hare been-to op p)se the going intolhe.Contmittee. It was now un fair-to °lsraelite disettsgon. - his. W HITBR gal), said . tbat Alte . Honourable lf ember behind hint te:lonel tatrgtonl bad p' the btisiness footing to•whithat was' itipossible himsto•accede. ••It Was onfairto the• House and the public,"tltae the . Honcurable Member - should take this step, wlibil4touldniake a false impression aissoad, ,and iodisoe.many Ad.anbera to-vote contrary t. 9 4he may: in- _Which :tin . INvld, after hearing all the arguments which coulci be adduced. He trusted, howover,that the Hon. Member was not inexorable. Mre PHILLIPS said a few words against th e r i llxi' . 4 ,. • ** tlgirisTEli spoke briefly to. the same effect. Hi had: came down with the sincerest anxiety to bear the discussion that was due to the importance cf the Sobject, w hear whatever could be said upon so great 4 question. The HUnse - then 'divfdid, Voiltte Motion of Mi. Core Langton - Against it • 199 'Majority • --- 191 • The Noose then resolved itself into the Committee. Mr. BAR INOirose. - Mr. ROBlNSON , thought, as the three first Re. solutions , were net objected to, it might.penhaps,be as well topass them at once, and take Abe diseusoon on the -general 4stvaiion when , they came to the f mob. • 'Mr. BARLNG .said, , ltie observations would be founded on the. fourth Resolution, which brought the whole-subject before the „House. ••'' • -. The•three first Resolutions were then read and, agreed le. ; !- • • a • that fivrth-Resolutionf which fixes the price at til irch-Wheac sh-allrbe t ` it Mr...Rosz and frii. BAsaia offered to addicts the Coolniiitir.• ••• • •• •..• •. • 1.. • . The CtraloraNY'ffinnetl Mr,,Theen. • • 1 !•!' • Mr; • W setnineled the Chairman that. -the; .Honotwelik •Gientleinaw.;4/dr. • Baring) baying risen or. speak 'before the light Honor :able Gentletnati proposed to.pase his three first Resolu tions, might be regarded as baring possession of the Comysiftste.f“. •••• -,/ " i••:•) :e -• 141n SC8B-denimi .4111; 116119111111114. Gristle man h4d . beenin , -posemion of thitiCoelanliteee•-•lie bad offered thintself thus. early?: in.. eeatettattie. . of 'hrs. having been called:ow by the—Honhurable-Gene tlerrian (Mr. , .Baring)'on a former day. lide "was 'very willing so' give sway to him, es be •bad .no. wish to impact on. the.. Committee before they were per fectly diatom - 10 hear him* „,.., ~; Mr.:1)&11111AG whold:hrits bees thapp, to ve+ way to•the Right Ifins.r.entlentan, bet that ha .had eb _ intentilm of omeving certain amendments on :Ow Resolutions, which henvished to submit so the Conti, enittee•at tbe•commeneement of the I.discession. • at -th.e-tame time, had he thought.sheißight-Hon. G.e. ticm:ln would have - taken upon limself•thia. with the same abilivy wbieh-he hat.-displayed4ast,. year, he sbouldihave been , most willing ..to.retsign to him. 'lbis, however% . was that which he could not .bape:, • He had been very much disappointed: on-the farmer day by the-little part which sbe Right• Hen.! Gentleman had taken in the proceedings, and tisk; Circuiestsance, combined with the reports .which:hq bad before stated to have reached hint, !had: outdo him apprehensive that he bad changed his •opinion with respect 40 the Corn Laws, Had he known there wasno strong a feeling in the House in favour of Abe view be (Mr. Baring) took of the subject, es ha 4 -be.ii accidentally manifested, he did not know, bet -he should have abstained from, putting himseilkin; w ird on this ficcasion, in the hope that the husinesi would fall into abler hands. lie was glad to see that feeling \e which ha bat* relived more general Ilan/ ke.bad ,expected it narullibst a and he hoped the numerous , petitions which had been presented i thebtst Session spinet the propped alteration wesul not have been • presented In vain. For himself, his op itainni were not at all altered from what he h .. stated them to be in the last Baum, and in the Sas. sion before the last. He had seen eothing.thet ought to induce the House at all to alter their conduct wittrl - respect to the Corn Trade, OR the general principle„ though certainly there was a d rangement of the la. boor and of the agriculture of the country to be ob ' served, which called for a remedy. In cases of great commercial distress, though it was not _consistent 'with the principles which usually regulated:the con. duet of Parliament to vote an issue of Exchequer Bills, to furnish the means of carrying on trade, yet this had been done in some• instances. as it was thought such assistance would break the fall to be apprehend-d, and considerably tend to remove the temporary difficulties under which our commerce laboured, Something of this sort, it appeared to. him, might now be done, - without -.henry to the public, and without abandoning those principles from which he would be the lest man to advise that House to depart. To the measure now propo. sed for the relief of the landed interest, he had very •strong objections. Notwithstanding a feeling :mow florourable to his views than he. was prepared to ex . Pectabad been manifested, he still feered . there was 44be minds of a majority in that House a strong drsposition to pass the measure now submitt ed to I theta in its present state. Under this apprehension heahould proceed to communicate to the Committer. the view he took of the minutes of the case. • After a long war the return of peace had caused-that con fusion and derangement in the agriculture of the Country, which might have been expected. The price Of the produce, and of course the value of land, must be affected by such a-change ; and it was .natural that those who suffered from it should come to Par iament to seek redress. The question now was , +ether the Committee could cr ought, on codsider. ig the case of these persons, to infringe every pain- tiple by which the commerce of the country had heretofore been regulated, by giving them an imme diate abstraction of the Corn Laws.? To do this was to do no less than to give them leave, by keeping up their rents, and the value of their land, to continue at a high rate the prices of labour and of food.—.. He wished it to be considered to what extent the landed interest was already protected at the expense f' the consumer, and closely to look at what they t ry ere called upon further to do. Vor this purpose e would submit to them a few short estituates.— , Taking the population of England, Scotland, and' Wales, at 12,500,000 souk, and assuming the an. nual average consumption of each person to he one quarter of - wheat in bread, and supposing ball as much more to be consumed in Beer and Spirits, at. Supposing this average to be correct, and that tloae were no Corn Laws at all to prevent importation, it would be found, from the prices which that commo dity had borne in other countries from which we derived a supply, that in England the average price of a number of years would have been 45 ale 3 ling i, per quarter. In France and Flanders, the price, on taking the average of a number el years, it would be seen, bad been 40s. the quarter. Allowing Ls. per quarter for the transmission of it to this country, its price here must have been, as he had before stat ed, about 453. per quarter ; for untler such a system the price of Corn, in a tnalitime country I;ke this, must be about the average of all other countries.— This would have been the state of the ease had that situation of things existed which he had supposed.— The Corn Laws, however, had excluded foreign grain, when the price of wheat did not exceed 65 shillings the quarter; making a difference of '2os. in the quarter in favour of the aviculturist. It would hence be seen, that an annual bounty had been paid by a population of twelve millions and a half to the Corn-growers, amounting to no less a sum than £12,500,000, in the Bread and Flour which they consumed. Add to this halt as much more for the Corn consumed in Beer and Spirits, and 16,250,000 Must be put to the ac 12,500,000, making the total bounty paid by the consumers of Corn to the landed Interest in a year-, nut less than £114750,000: This Maas an advantage not - enjoyed by the landed. in tetest in stfty other' Part. of . the world.• Now it 'Was proposed to raise the price at which- the im portetion- of foreign - corn should be prohibited, to SO shillip A gt ; and doing this, ar annual additional bbunty of 414/100,000' was required oldie consurher. This, if acceded to, . would raise the bounty paid for 'the protection of the landed interest to £.32,750,000. As he did, not wish to say any thing that could be 'considered at at all infl ammatory, he wished it to be 'understood that he did not take vaion:hisitself tosay, that so much went from thelficiple• Into the pockets Of those hy.whcim their_food was grown, but lie re.' served to himselfsto consider if it:were /mensal+ that any part of this should be paid. Inrnaking his eaten- E lation hehad rather undervalued the sent paid by the ennsnater. If 4 calculation were made in another Way, oat the rent Paid on all the cultivable -land, the. result would be similar, and it would be impossible not-to see that 4n Immense bouittlies Ova inallis' countrylothe agriculturist, which the agriculturist of. no. other Country hi-the world was. sipposedtcrise en.. 'titled AO: • tit Frame there were certitmly persons pos.. :scsted °firing landed property.., Theesultivated it. andlivedon it with that kind of hospitality Which forinerly was sere in. Englatid:hui.it waseely in tlthi iecNietry that the proprietor of landed propertt could, Securely leave his farms, receive their produce and ge. abroad to spend it elsewhere. .OnthcsUbject of the additional bounty prooMed po'bigiyete he wished to address the CUrnnatiseept particular. .Notwithstand i rig _he' admitted dismar . to exist which called for a remedy, remedy, he was decid e of opinion that pretection often be eatended . tonfar . . • It might be carried to a polka which would be de structive to the manufactures taf the country .from the increasing priCe of labour; 't p r cm that pretection ! . . They ought thereforq 'tskpre . ceed with emit:earl stePs,_and consider well the consequences' of what they were doing, or their proceeding;, mightcause incalculable, tnitchief..... He considered it would be a waste of time to co mmon; 'on certain ingenious, but whimsicel staterUents,Which had been made in die. evideoce given. n ahother place- He cotald not conceihre that ii . that House there could be any uedeeitanding so Constructed as to requite mit convinced that thelsrice . of labour might be affected by the price of subsistence. He would as: • • . .. . . , e .. soma-this tobe conceded. The eesolutiotte . cattle& would not fail to augment the price of corn and bread, ened e those of laboullantest be raised in progression.— An Hon. Friend of hit , whd had spoken in favour pf , eltetn e .had declired e he would. not support them if e he torisidered them likely tie cause bread to be soltd.at a high-price t. lie, on time contrary,. wes in famureof, them, as he. was. ceeadent thrr effect would be to make it cheaper. He believed the Hon. Gentleman to be einem e but he could not comprehend . the course. of his understanding, when it led him tolook for such an effect from the measnre in . contemplitiOn. The petitioners fora change in the Corn. Laws declared if the importation prices of Corn were not raised to SOs. they could not lixe, and must threw up their lands. If theeffect of the change should be that Qui. cipated by his Hon. Friend, they retst All be starved ti for no* their complaint was, that its price was so 10. 4 that foreigners could undersell them et the market, and unless protected against them by the Legislature they must be ruined. If the change, then, should cause the price rf bread to be loweied, the farmers , would be thrown.out altogether, they must give.up,. their hams. and the consequence would be. that situ-, ation of things which they wet e so fond of bringing firward to the alteration which they desired. Aere eulture would be given up, and we must then depend 44 foreigners fur a supply °Worn, and take it at their 'rim It was impossible Bread could be cheap if the 1 ,11 esolutious .were adopted. The argument of those , o supported themwould be consistent if they were tp say, these will ensure you a steady supply, but yqu Must .pay for it, and it is better to pay a pod price • her your bread at once, than to be dependent on fo teigners for the supply of an article . of such printery iinportanae. This he could comprehend, but that a Measure brought into give relief to those who could not live unless corn were sold at a higher price, would Make bread cheap, was that which he could not un derstand. What was the case of .1,14i5. county) , ? It was that of a country which consumed more than ircould groat, and which must the:Are have, its ices regulated by •the charges on that portion f its. supply which it had derived from foreign 4onntriea. .But it would be said, if these Resoletiens were adopted, a sufficient supply would be raied at home. This, however, by the arguments of the sup porters of the Resolutions, could not be, if the effect pf them was to make the ;nice of core Ow? Of what ese could it.be that this measure culled 'barren lends to be turned into corn fields, if the low price of cote Was immediately to throw them *out of cultivation . ? He called upon the Committee to look At the returns Which ,bad been made at various periods, and it Would be found that in England—an 'reporting coun try, the price of grain hid ever followed that which was named as a errotecting price. For five years be fore. he year 176 e, the average price of wheat had been ,fl. l Os. 7d.. the.querter, and an alteration was', , made in the importing price in that year, and the consequence was the average price in the five follow ing years :ow onere2. Ss. From 17.)t .to 1794, no considerable alteration had taken place in the price of corn, Parliament hiving left it to itself, it had tlectuated according to the harvests in the .I . o .l .;eent ye•Ars, Lut not greatly. ,No neveriel advance took place,within. the long pettiest r,l 64 years, but in Mile an Alteration was 'node in the Ilse, and its pii:.e was, in es.neequence e rAised from. el. 10s. t , 42. 3s. the gearter. Ft0m.1761 t 0179 I, no change of trneer. 'fence was msde in the Corn Laws, and the pace*. corn was not inereesed e if at all, • to any considerable amount. In the. Avie years, ending in 1791 e the ave rage price was XL 7s. the quarter. An alteration was made in. the law in 1791, and in the five folloW- ing years, the avefage ;nice was .€3. 9s. He thought there was no doubt, that raising the importation price of corn wouldejuveriahly raise the price of corn and bread. This he found on an inspection ef our imports and exports at different periods of our his. tory. The great demand for corn unquestionably at use from the increased, population of the country, and from the military establishments, &c. which had been formed in the course of the war. While we were a great importing country our prices had been low. He knew that it had been asserted the prices of corn were low when the importing price was high. A garbled abstract of the returns at certain periods might seem to prove this, but he had little faith in the statement. He did not helieve the importations of 'corn injured the interests of agriculture. Within the last 20 years England had imported more over her exports than ever she had done before at any period upon record. It was admitted such great improvements in agriculture had never been made before, as had been Made in this country within the last Ito years.— No Gentleman could go through the country without being constrained to admit that its agriculture was in e flourishing condition, and to this it had risen deting4this season of importation. This fact dis rove the arguments of the supporters of the.Reso tions,• and proved the increased demand for corn 'which rendered a supply necessary, was caused by •our incteasingpopulation u and did no injury to our *agriculture at home. Bat-the fashionable argument 'seemed to be the great value of independence—that . we oughteo be independent of foreign countries for 'a• suptilref tern, wasedutt which the agriculturists , 'wishedlie establish. That 'by keeping out all foreign' corn ] and by cultivating all sorts of land at whatever, entnenee, we might 'Procure an independent supply,was . ' alit it which could hardly be doubted, but nothing., so dd. be more absurd than for any deliberatiee body.l In decide on such a measure, as one which would be Ise whciel •to their country. Independence in any using would f ilmy. be dear to Englishmen, but that., 'we Should raise corn on Leeds which were very good tor other.purposes, but good for little for corn, when, we might procure it much cheaper froM our neigh- . !bows, was a measure which he could not admire, though it was coupled with a notion of independence. Whet if the people .of Norway and Malta ehotild, in the same way, resolve to be independent, and scratch their barren rocks and sands to sow corn, instead of w e ekjng their mines, carrying on their fisheries, and forwarding their manufactures, by which they Might with _ _. wry __Aut. obtain ease, ten times over, the greatest supply their agriculture could ever furnish. From Maltaj they mien sail to Egypt for soil to spread over their rocks, to receive the teed, but what would be the re. stile t The cOnhecjuence of adopting'such a System of policy would be thi s — they would not be able to raise corn for their popUhition : bet that would cut dawn their population to their Cain.' ` They would not cut the bed-ta the Mari, but the limb: of the man to the bed. The soil of Scotland was bad in many parts for the growth of corn I but if she Were :e , ,11 rated, as formerly from Englund, and determined be independent, declare no one should go there ul.o aid not take his bread, what but misery coald he the consequeoce of such a resolution, to attempt to ,that which nature had neser intended her to do 'L'his soil of gaglanst was raiRCILWOrn 19r tlig.grgarti of corn than * inuch of the lend' on the Continent.-v- Bad harvests in this country were awe frequent, yet to cultivate barren lands, it seemed 'a new system was to he acted upon, which threatened to * destroy the sources of our wealth and power. He did not say that the fifteen shillings, proposed to be ad. ded to the present importation price, would proeuct such.in efres:t, but it the p!an were persevered might be Fief i6cea, the lo .s Of which would be mos. ;Di ut ions to the country. It. might be, never gut bac:. again, and our present advantages might be lost i: the same way as they were formeily gained. I - i doubted not much more bsd land could Ile brougt. into cultivation. if Bth. were ,the Lmtteting price than if it fled at 70s and 'still more niight be der. ih this way, it, iasteed of 8(11. the price were fired a• 510 s. or 100« ; but the question was, would it be wist: to wait the success of this expensive experiment, and tell the people, in the meantime, drat they seeuld te e no breed but WI: it was grown in the country ? N( t only would Cais mcaoire he the mewls of bringin g : poor Linde into cultivation, but of imptoving these al:eatly cultivated. One of the witnesses had ea.; that. in censeqttence of • the low price of corn, lie could no longer use the hand-hoe its cultivating h s fialds. He Vii. Bering) understaiocrthis-h;owliil • rice, •was no ohject, the cultivator coula afford to hail-hoe, or herohrefte, his land so - ak tti - Mete it perfect garden ; but he could aff od to do this 6.0 longer when, foam competition, corn had become._ cheap. He did not ye that such improvements weto those which that House ought to encourage at Ile public expense. If this were (hoe there might be ne cud to the artificial improvements mule in agricte • tore, and they might possibly s 'on hear of a large water pot being constructed to he used in dry weethei. These niceties were not wanted They might net the taste of some of the corn growers, but they weal not answer the purpose of the consumers. Uudee encouragement given to the tended interest in do end would have the effect of destroying the ma nufecturiog interest, and then the corn growers woultl. be compelled to expel( their corn,. and thus th great elaileratssw in their eyes, the making of this country an exporting country, would be gained. Raise. cum in con e equence of the high price to let paid for it, immense pestures would be ploughed tip, retch wood would he grubbed up, Land would be a - r- Liticially prepaied for the growth of corn f'r whice it could never be and to the raising of which ate owners could never think of appropriating it, but ter the bounty offered on that commodity. Fur this reason he must oppose giving any bounty in additioe .to that already given, as mos: injurious to the emit:- try at large, and net less rightly conuideseable to else landholders then to the odor members of the com munity, as they as meth as any others, were intere..- ted in promoting the public good. But suponine, the, House attached no imperoince to thi . i reasoning, still would he corgend the pretentiens of the farnat;s were perfectly griinildkcs,and he srante,lnot lan mtr e than the evidence hefeee the other House to Grave It was irneenoible to tetot that evideuce, wi:hout seeieg the partiality %cite which it had - teen drawn From the style I)! the witnesses oTreitiined, it wee deer they were all on one side, but nothing wort conclusive against • them than their evidence co hl have been hoped from the examinetion c f. a set of . i• news, all- of the opposite party. In 1801. when Ile. kw was lest -changed, the tanner thought the rite then named, as the inapt), cation .price. a satht4tumy price. It was for him to shew why that which nes then a pre!ecting price, was not sufficient no,'.-- It was said his expences were increa-td. He ( , lr. Baring) hoped that some Gentlemen A ho treated this subject generally, would go a little into the detaii, and shew what these expences were, and how it !%Jr pened that they would not be levatared in cnnsequente of a declension in the price oi corn. An 11:s exo•nco, excepting taxes, he meinteined, must iolloo the price of htead. It was said the expense for horses wet greater than he 1804. ; but es these were the produce of drefirm, of seine farms at least, thou:;': that pm due. bore a higher price than formerly, it too not to be taken into consideration as a serious augmereetito of the expences of which they complained. Tie Seeds, harness, and blacksmith's wo:k were mai • toned. These rely gave an additional charge for labour, which must decliue with the price of suste nance. The increased charge for manure, and Ile complaints founded en it, he considered as absuild. Oil cakes were spoken of as increased in price; Let it was evident that the miller would sell them to the hrmer at half pri,:e rather than throw them away. As the seeds limo be useless to itiM•whee the o:1 was pressed out. lt was oite..i.o;.iance where 9.5. weir formerly paid, as many g.irnee.s were now demenilei for the same quanthoe. Of this article there conlil be no diminution in quantity ; and it was therefore. impossible ;Or any Gentlemah not to seeded it met be sold for that price Which the former could afoot to pay. So much for the - general merits of the coma ' plaints of the petitioners. The price used upon lo those who had siren evidence before the Committer as that Which orould.protect fa'rmer was S . os. ae.i the witnesses who stated this, universally stated e: soppositiop 1411 umixhotesfir tarn; !Amin :t rent, were to remain the same. As the farmers took the corn at a low, and every tam p ; else at a Welt Priv% in order to make out their case; how could toe Con: mittegive diem relief Uherei such circumstances, whet they Fallit.know it was impossible for the high price' of laboui Recanting', ,it the price of corn declined `On this itt4nt it would be well to look to the evident gfltl4'''b, one of the tnost•intelligent triturates exao.4 by the C'erhAilttee, who, being a.koi hoe the Neuter could :land ii his expenses were c lculeo ed at &.per bushel, and the prices were to rector •as they then existed ? attsweved; that, it the are'cum were founded in fact, be would lose about £2. it per quarter; but expressed hii opinion, that such • state of things -meld never ezist, because the teihl• tion in the price of labour, and in a vetiety oi oder expenses, mustprivartinned to this alienation r • price. The nine pint etWati Waif alio asked, whet e. molly expenses would not still remain the sane, though the price of produce: was diminished? Lir reply was, that he thought some art:cles trrieN main at the same rate, fot a short period, but hot tO! i , .