Star. — London, England, 1818-04-07 00:00:00

icing the subject ; or as those of die parties them 'yes, who were said to be actuated by a spirit of .Jdism, in opposing their employers. If there were any defect in the evidence already before the ise, he held a Petition which would supply it, was exempt from all the charges made against s others. It was signed by the names of seventeen hundred and thirty-one of the most respectable inha -tnts of Manchester, who feelingly deplored the si lion of the persons employed in cotton manufac tories, on account of the excessive hours and the tem perature in which they were made to work, which "rodueed the most injurious consequences amongst em. Among the Petitioners, seven were Magis .:es, nine Physicians, 21 Surgeons, and 20 Clergy- , m, and 17 of these of the Established Church.— ; of the Physicians had attended the Infirmary 27 years, and three of the Surgeons for 30 years. House would therefore now be in possession of opinion of 30 medical men, who thought the :king hours excessive, and their consequences in ious to the individuals employed; and it could longer be maintained that sufficient evidence had been produced. The following is a Copy of the Petition : " To the Honourable the Commis of the Uxersai KINGDOM of (limper Bemis and butialm in Parliament assembled. The bamble Petition of the undersigned Inhabitants of the Owns and Neighbourhood of Manchester and Salford • Sitxwcrir, That the Manufactories fur Spinning and preps ; Cotton in Manchester and .Salford, and their immediate inky, are very numerous, and the hands therein employed, :insisting of children as well as adults), form a large proportion the working classes in this D:strict. "rThat your Petitioners most feelingly deplore the seerings those who are thus employed, inasmuch as their daily labour not only protracted to an unrcatiouable'and destructive extent) point of time, but is genet ally performed in a temperature, d under circumstances, connected with the process of manu :titre, which tender the pressure of its lengthened duration more highly prejudicial. ' That the species of labour above mentioned occasions results tally injurious to many of the individuals who pursue it, and specially to the delicate frame and strength of Children, who, it common with the other bands, are obliged to attend the Fac tories early in a morning, and continue their toil until late at '-1t; whence it is evident, that in passing to and from their •uses, they experience the inclemenctes of weather in a more a., ordinary degree of severity and danger, owing to the heated id relaxing state of the Mills where they are so long and so ly in= r.rd. 'w That from the generality of the practice which is produc re of these evils, and the natural competitions of the Trade, ich evils cannot be removed without the aid of Legislative tuthority ; and your Petitioners are unable to express the saris. faction they feel in the existing prospect of Parliamentary relief. Bat your Petitioners, nevertheless, hope that they may be Mowed to submit to your Honourable House the sentiments' pith which the subject so strongly impresses them. " And earnestly to solicit the enactment of such regulations may effectually reduce the working hours in Cotton Mills to :asonable limits, and, in principle, embrace the other humane revisions of the Bill recently introduced by Sir Roam Pun.. " And your Petitioners will ever pray," &c. Mr. PHILLIPS thought it rather extraordinary, that in so populous a place as Manchester, only 1731 'ndividuals should have signed a Petition, which was (presented as expressing the sentiments of the town. ,s to the opinions of medical then, he knew that a fference existed. But certificates had been given Physicians and Surgeons, who spoke from actual observation and from fact., and not from general -,pressions, and who considered the persc a. employ i in cotton manufactories at Manchester in a situa ion far superior to those engaged in other labours, id more free from complaints. Sir F. BURDETT thought the asse.tio:i that chil (ren of a tender age, called out early in the morn hg at all seasons, and kept closely a.: work till ten 'c ock at night, were not injured by s ich treatment, :as a most monstrous position—(hear, hear, from the Ministerial side.)—He therefore hoped that the Honourable Member would persevere, and that the House weted not delay to adopt a remedy to so cry n' an evil. lord STANLEY, to shew the mode in which me statements were prepared, begged to refer to which was published in the Manchester Exchange Herald of Slst March, folio 103, third column ; and which, it was understood, has been sent to many \lembers of Parliament—that in the Sunday School sick Society of Jersey-street, Manchester, out of 40 persons relieved, 33 worked in factories ; thus con veying an impression that the unhealthiness of this employment, compared with that of others, was as 1.1 to seven, whilst the fact was, that the Society :onsisted of 270 children, of whom 213 were em ployed in factories, 23 in other occupations, and 34 had not begun to work. The numbers relieved were, of factory children 33 in 213, or one in six 4-10ths ; and of those in other occupations, seven in '23, or one in three `2-10ths : and as to the time during which th use of each class remained chargeable upon the sick fund, it appeared that the factory children averaged at the rate of three and a half days each for the 13 months to which the statement referred, rnd those employed in other occupations at the rate if five 3-1111 days each. The 34. children who had lot begun to work, did not appear to have received issistaace from the Society's fund. Mr. PEEL explained, that if the Petition had not been more numerously signed, it was because the par ies wishCd that it should only contain the names of individuals who had no pers:snal interest whatever in the question. The Petition was then ordered to lie on the Table. • . . .. • ..... --- gating selves, Luddis were al • - House, and Via the oth hundre bitants tuation tories, 1 . peratui I . produc them. tr aces, • men, One of l , for 27 The H the opi workir juriou: no lcm not be The ' l fill \ ' " 1 , I ' "Ti Town: , "Su; ~ ring Co vicinity (consist of tlie 1 "Th of then, Is not o • in polls i and um facture ; I still me 41 • " Ti fatally 1 i 1 . ) 1 . , eipecia ° bi com tories 'lig it ; h 'uses k 11 . that or t a and re elo.,sly sa 1 rive of each e fkuthn intim • 1 But allows t . with v GI A as mal reason provis It ,I il 1 Mi that i indiv li: repre As tc differ by i P obser , imps c . ed in tioa I ; 1 and i Su dren 1 ing a o'c oi was the al How How inz ii those 1 . . one 1 Hec whit. Men Sick pert veyii emp Sin cons i ploy ill ad I I • of fa and I ' in ti: I f 1 .., th ,s sick aver for 1 and ' of fi ) ' ' not assi beer 1 ' • ties r .... indi I i the pe l , a a sc tI ) t the try But p..e do I ' 1 2 V bee 111 1 • Tr. Th , 1O: lon l' f the Pt" ' no , wa , ott ii . • ini• i i .!' effi . t, too , t tAX ' I tat . I 1 ( i f 1L ; ., , --..,, 1 , I . :. . . • • l ' ,\ • . 4° '1( 111 1 4, . • 46 • LEATHER TAX. Lord ALTIIORM moved, that the Bill for Re pealing the Adjitional Duty on Leather be now read a second time. Mr. C. GRANT was ready, as well as the rest of the House, to give every possible relief to the coun try and to pay due respect to the request of the people. But he could not refrain from thinking, that in the p..esent case, the petitioners had come before the douse under rather extraordinary circumstances. For a whole century, during which every other trade has been subjected to increased taxation, the Leather Trade had remained free from any additional burden. This had continued from the time of Queen Anne tol ltil`2. But on what ground should it have been any longer exempted from contributing its due share to the service of the State? It had increased in pros perity like all other branches of trade, and yet it was now proposed to replace it on the footing on which it was 100 years ago. Would thts be just towards the other trades ? It had not been proved that the Tax iniposed in 181'2 had been attended with injurious effects. If the revenue had decreased and the trade too, if the trader had not the power of throwing the tax on the consumer, and if there was no prospect of Lie trade reviving with others, then a strong prima Facie case might be Made out ; but the contrary seas the fact, and this was proved by the papers laid be fore the House. The tax had been imposed in the month of July, .1112. The produce of the original duty; up to the sth of July, 1812, had been 363,890/. and that of the next year, with the additional duty, 654,0001. or nearly double that of the former, al though immediately after the imposition of e new tax a diminution might have been expected. The in crease had continued for two years longer, for in 1814, the produce had been 667,000/. and in 1315, 677,000/. It was therefore evident that the duty had not injured the trade, since both had doubled toge ther. It was also clear that the traders had thrown the tax on the consumers, for the price of the article had risen even more than in proportion. In 18,12 it was Is. 7d. per pound, and in 1814, from 2s. to 2s. 2d. Not only the domestic; but the foreign con sumers had paid off the tax, for the exports had tre bled in two years. As to the depression which had taken place, it appeared to be as follows: in 1816 the produce of the tax had sunk to 599,000/. and in 181.7 to 595,0301. but this was from causes m hich were notorious to all when the period was considered, and which had beaten down every other branch of trade. The almost total cessation of demand had occasioned that fall, and no diminution of taxes' could create a demand which had no existence of its own. There was another cause also for the decrease which had taken place in the revenue. Pre\ inns to the Act of 1812, the Tanners were not allowed to perform any operation on the hides while they were undergoing the tanning process. All the superfluous parts not being shaved off, increased their weight when they went to pay duty, and consequently the duty itself. By the Act of 1812 this restric:ioa was removed, and the weight of hides being reiuced had occasioned a proportionate diminution in the produce of the duty, which by some • was estimated at half the amount of the depression. Supposing that it was one-third, still it would account for a very consider able part of the reduction. In many cases, iron had also been substituted for leather, and thus another ground of diminution had sprung up. In January 1817, the produce of the tax, as charged, was 611,000/. and as collected 599,000/. There had also been an increase of 17,000/. during the last quarter. If the accounts were made up from January to Ja nuary, instead of from July to July, the facts which he had stated would be confirmed. The produce had been On January 5, 1812 - £349,000 On Jatrlary 5, 1813 - 674,0(0 On January 5, 1814 656,000 On January 5, 1815 674,000 On January 5, 1816 596,000 On January 5, 1817 - 595,000 but charged 611,0001. which were in progress of co lection. It was stated that a proof of the depression of this particular trade might be found in the in creased number of bankruptcies, and the diminution of licences. But it was notorious that at the close of the war, the trade was more one of speculation than any thing else, and why should tanners be exempted from the consequences of speculations any more than others? They had speculated rashly, and now bore the consequences of their rashness. During the last two years, the amount of the sums for which Extents in Aid had been issued against Tanners, did not ex ceed 2,0001. which sheaved that their distresses could not be very considerable. With respect to the dimi nution in the licences, it was remarkable that the li censes in the Malt Trade had also decreased since the repeal of the War Malt Duty. In 1815, before that repeal, they amounted to 20,548, and in 1817, since it had taken place, to only 80,272. He then conten ded that the question was not to be decided on par tial and local, but on general grounds. The duty of the House was to support the revenue, which required its protection. If the securities which the public cre ditor held were thus reduced one by one, the foun dations of public credit would be shaken. The House must come to the discussion with a view to the country, to the revenue, and above all, to the public faith. He concluded by moving, that the Bill be read this day six months. Lord ALTHORPE cordially agreed that it be came the House to support the revenue of the coun try, but he trusted that they would feel it to be their duty to support the manufactures of the country— (hear, hear.) It was said, that it was but natural to expect that the trade should have declined at the ces• sation of the late war. But he could not find that the trade had declined at the conclusion of any for mer war, so thatif this cause had any real operation, it was discovered now for the first time. Looking to the decreased number of licenses, and the multiplied number of bankruptcies, lie thought the trade alto gether declining. Lord DEEItHURST did not intend to trespass above a moment on the attention of the House, in treading afresh the track so beaten already, by a re capitulation of the arguments which had been, he hoped, successfully used by the Noble Lord who had originally moved the question, and by other honour able Members who intended to vote as he did, for the repeal of the additional duties on leather. It was not his (Lord Deerhurst's) inclination to oppose upon trifling grounds the taxation considered necessary by his Majesty's Ministers ; but representing as he did a great commercial city, deeply interested in the pre sent debate, he could not give a silent vote, without stating that the repeal of the additional duties on lea ther was of great import to many highly respectable persons connected with that trade in Worcester, who prayed to be relieved from the burden of it, that they might, at least, upon equal terms, meet the fo reign merchants in the market, which they were un p,ble to do with the additional duty in force, as they at present stood. He should therefore vote for the repeal of those bills. Lord COMPTON contended that the argument used by the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. C. Grant) that no additional tax had been laid on the Leather Trade from the reign of Queen Anne to 1812, was most unfortunate for his side of the question, for it proved the view which the different Chancellors of the Exchequer who succeeded each other during that period entertained of that subject. Had they thought such a tax justifiable, they certainly would not have been so long without imposing it. Mr. H. DAVIS said, that he had consulted with some of the most intelligent tanners, all of whom agreed in thinking that no good was to be expected from the repeal of the tax. He read part of a letter from a respectable tanner, who, the Hon. Member said, he was conscious, had a perfect knowledge of his own interests—(hear, hear! and laughter.) Th 2 Object of the letter was to shew that other eauses ha i operated to the depression of the trade than the doa ble tax. In consequence of this letter, he should vote in favour of the tax. Mr. BURItELL said, that he was sure the gene ral feeling of the country was against the tax, and •that, beside elc correspondent of Ore lion. Gentleman who had just sat down, there could suit be found ano ther tanner in the country favourable to the tax — (hear, hear.) Mr. M AIIItYATT, relying more upon the nume rous Petitions which were presented to the House, than upon the letter of a single individual, should vote for the second reading of the Bill. He referred to several papers to shew, that since the double tax was imposed, the export of the raw material was doubled, while the manufacture was diminished to less than half—(hcar, hear, hear!) Thus the foreign manufacturers thtained a great advantage over the manufacturers of this country. The tax, in fact, though pressing upon the poor, was repaid to them again by the rich, in the shape of poor rates. The wealth of the country was its manufactures ; and if was the duty, as well as the interest of the House to support them. Mr. BENSON (amid cries of Question), said it was not his intention to trespass long on the House. He would not have risen but for the letter which was read by an Honourable Member opposite. That Member said, that his correspondent had a perfect knowledge of his own interest. He (Mr. Benson) was sure that the llonourable Member had a gnoJ knowledge of his own interests when he voted for the tax— (Order, order.) Mr. H. DAVIS—" I rise to ask the lion. Mem ber, upon what grounds he presumes to say, that I have been actuated by interested motives in voting against this Bill ?" The SPEAKER—" I interrupted the Hon. Mem ber when I heard him use personal expressions. It would have been an abandonment of my duty, if I had not prevented him from proceeding. lam sure, however, that the Hon. Member did not mean to convey in those expressions a personal otience."— (hear, hear.) Mr. BENSON—" No man would be more un willing than I am to give offence to any Honourable Member. I used the term in a Parliamentary sense, for I considerod that we were now at the eve of a ge neral election, and the word interest I applied to that concern, not intending it by any means in a per sonal way."—(Hear, hear, hear.) The Honourable Member concluded with expressing his intention to vote for the Bill. _ _ Mr. LUSHINGTON was convinced that there never was a complaint made against a tax, with less • justice than that made against the tax now in ques tion. He disputed the accuracy of the information which stated that the exportation of the raw material was doubled in the five years subsequent to the dou ble tax. The tax upon leather was productive to the country (hear, hear !) and he was astonished to find it so much ei iminated. It might, indeed, have been to the i. serest of the tanners that this tax should he given up, because it would take 160,0001. out of the pockets of the public, and put it into the pockets of the tanners—(hear, hear.) The question should be treated upon large principles. The number of tan ners, it was true, was reduced ; hut that did not prove the declension of the trade. A few of the small tan ners were thrown out of the business; but the fact was, the trade of the principal tanners was increased. This was evident from the state of the trade of Messrs. Bruen. The injuries sufrered by the small tanners arose not from the tax, but from the superior means of manufacturing leather which the principal tanners possessed. It should be also remembered, that the tanners themselves received the duty from the public before they paid it to the Crown, so that they had no real reason to complain. The tanners with whom he had communicated were averse to any change in the law ; and he had no hesitation in saying, that if this tax were repealed, another one should be substituted for it. He had heard it repeated by several respect able tanners, that the pretences upon which it W 6 sought to repeal the tax were scandalously false. Mr. BROUGHAM denied the necessity of impo sing a new tax in case this tax was repealed. When a larger, though not a more impolitic tax, was re pealed, about two years ago, the Ministers imposed no new tax--(hear, hear). No. They took back their estimates, and reduced them to the level of the ex penditure—(hear, hear). The estimates were still open, because they pledged the House only not to exceed a certain amount, and he, therefore, wished that the Ministers would still be obliged to reduce their estimates. He was surprised to hear the Ho nourable Gentleman give, as his reason for voting for the tax, a letter from a particular tanner—(No, no,from Mr. H. Davis). He understood him to give that letter for his reason, but, if he did not,•he cer tainly gave no reason at all—(hear, hear). Beside, the tanners, there was another class who suffered largely by the tax, namely, the consumers—the pub-' lic at large. This tax had all the inconvenience of the Pell lax, and it was oppressive, because it fell chiefly upon the poor—(hear, hear). Mr. HUSKISSON begged the indulgence of the House for a few moments. He stated. that the Lea. titer Tax was pledged to the public creditor, so that , if it was repealed, another tax should be necessarily substituted. He had considered the subject deci.ly, and he was convinced, that if the country could bear a diminution in the revennc, the Leather T a x was not that which it would be most advisable to repeal —(heai., hear). The real state of the case was, that the tax was imposed in a period of distress, and then, as it was not as productive as was expected, the No ble Lord thought it should be done away. The Noble Lord might have found a stronger argurneet for the repeal of the old Malt Tax, in its gee it dimi nution. It was diminished to less thus one half, and here, therefore, was a strong argument, in the view of the Noble Lord, for its repeal—(hear, hear). The leather trade was certainly depressed, but it was nosy reviving like other trades. A greater injury could not be done to the public, than would be caused by the commutation of taxes. The public had all the expenses of this new tax, while it &lived no benefit front the repeal of one tax, and the substitution of another. The question was loudly called for, and t 17,2 House divided. Foram Amendment, 34i—Against it, ISO— against Lord Althorpc's Bill, 6. A coLversation took place lictwt.t.ii Sir J. I PORT, Mr. B. BATIICR3T, and M. Ltsstmery specting the delay in the return of the Rep o! , Commissioners ti Inqui r y i nto t h e r eel nt cr„,, Justice in England ; wilen the la,t man intimated that he had a from them, stating, among other cability of completing their labnurs •. months to come.—This Sllbetr• and ordered to lie on the table and t , ) ADJOURNMENT. Lord CASTLEREAGH moved, that t: its rising do adjourn till Wednrsdav Committees ha. e leave to meet to-ni standing. Also, that the Private to-morrow be postpcned till %% ftllomeho3sN:t.;:::..ro:E' IRELAND. Sir JOHN NEWPORT move.lf..r.'i:— number of Causes decided, and or defendant, in the Assistant Ireland, established by tbe t: • King, up to die Ist day of A prii, - •. Account of the number of Dec • • superior Courts of Ireland, pallyno t exceed to e to e ascertain a r c d h s were aggrieved by the course u: 1,: • - BaArrfit,,ettr•r;' few wo rds tion was agreed to. FEES ON PARDONS UNDER THE Grtr.-IT ';Ed! 3 . 1 r. F. DOUGLAS rose to move for leave to in a Bill to diminish the expenses if obtainil dons under the Great Seal. He thcu g h t t h e would be surprised to learn that such aryl:don not be obtained under the great sum of IV truth this expense prevented many persons r' be proper objects of the Royal mer,y, from ing the enjoyment of their civil Ile it would be found that only tv.-e:7c. pa:don kind had been granted during the Lc,: He thought he could prc.ve that tlie on some occasions, a great im justice; and he would menti, which first led his atientica t the district in which he rc lees, sort of crimes were frequent: Occasion a female evidence coil, forward, whose testimony won't'', viction of the culprit, but sLe. l l of a felony, could nr,: be exan obtained a pardon ul.der the (. been commissioned to Gblair, it, in addition to the great exp:::.,e the pardon would cost 1104 'l' fore, that the object could be a person making himself resp: - .‘r.s;: which still remained to be pcnses, therefore, rr.?;ht ac: of public justice. The HotmJ. gued, that it was not pi( pc:. t dual might he pardoned, he an inability to pay his fees. LI, under the Clown receiving an being the medium of a gr.l7-. like restricting the quantity o: Crown according to the ;tl2,';i The ATTORNEY-GENEE .1l pardons were granted like ai. oti:er the Great Seal, and were subjected to the as all other letters patent. The charges a the business done in preparing the the stamp duties upon them, which lets: an. 361. The other part of the expense went to lic Fee Fund, and for the payment of two of Officers of the Crown, who saw, by th.em their agents, that the patents were properly a and one part was for the expen , e of slier Seal. Now when a person applied for :L., favour of the Crown, he must natura.iy pay the expense of obtaining it ; Legislature had enacted the .tamp !.. But in several instances it had flannel.:. in the course of public justice, jthtice cot. obtained without it, the Crown had t self. But convicted felons, and petsuns to he restored to their rights, had no :.!ro pect the labours of public otti;:ers f,e: , t fc• in this case, they were paid not by cording to the business they did. Leave was given to bring; in the roll. The Irish Cork Importation Bill was read On the motion of the CHANCELLOR tit• Ell for the third readinit of the Faur-whL. • Sir JOHN NEW poRT hoped the ma- n. - tended to Ireland. The CHANCELLOR of the F.NCIIEQ:' I is - prektit measure would not answer rent' ~ .. that part of the kingdom; but that he tr_d platinn of a ,imilar purport. LORD ADVOCATF. gave r•••i - e. tt , .l Friday se'rrnight move for leave to a t.,. improper expenditure of the Corpora:iors carne It of Scotland. Dr. ILI.' MOHR postponed his lirr:qn w Weitne•relay next, till Friday the Ist if 1 J •.; EAST-INDIA INTEILI6EACE. FROM TILE BOMBAY COURIER OF ‘TCRDAY Rumours of the British force :a l'oenahla attacked by the PEISTIWA'S hive. w last few days, created an an •.icry • which even the confidence tori,c, our troops was not sufficient to apprehended that what was v anti: enemy, might have been ov: by number,. We have endetvoa. correct intOrmation on this int,' it affords us the proudest grdtit'a to add to the honourable record India, another brilliant instance or ih and courage, and another decisive pr• perioritv which discipline gist's te ever colour or of whatever natit n posed, when directed by 11,•itish c 0 n1.1.,1! Of the causes of this rupture. and views which his Ilighness the lha , nw.t t to himself from it, we are cntircl is when we consider the whole tenour L.: , I —c the proverbial infidelity of a true Mal rrise at his pre-ent conduct may Le , is well known that the grcate were detached on a serr:ce, t.2d s ith the welfare of a • in the a in the eS ~.:~., ~ehiz~ 11 C' inand...t the zealous ct..-01 - State in. India, and cf Lip 11 particular. instead, how,:v, and raaud uulk of suppressi the h.t.5 jI vi ew rdir I force wit synto it tome da: tonrnents pOsition i nuanced . : forces, tc infantry . ?•: t i om 0 with the meet the whose fit were gal t he sam r t ss, an itit havi grew tin i f 10,000 , t he 2.1 c L. t ,,, :: r.• it. ti br-, 1g r z. . Het, 1 cot! 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