Star. — London, England, 1805-06-12 00:00:00

f Numßk:R 51 3 ) PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF COMMONS, WEDNESDAY. JUNE IMPEACHMENT OP LORD MILVILLE. Previous to the moving the Order of the Day on Mr. Whit - lame. 'notion for the impeachment of the Right Hon. Lord Vif cooa:M•lvillr, IThc SPEAKER called the attention of the Houk to a letter which he had yefterday received from the Noble Lord, on the fuhled of this motion. The SPEAKER read the letter from the Chair. which was dated from Wimbledon, and Rated that his Lordfhip having fern the Report of the Committee appointed to inveftigate the matters contained in the Tenth Report of the CommilLoners of 143V1i inquiry. was defirous of being allowed the indulgence of offeritg his fentiments to that Hon. Houfe ourthefe Reports. After the letter was read, the Honourable Mr. ROBER r DUN. Di'sq -nfe. and moved that the requeft contained in the letter be admim d 1 he queftion was put from the Chair, and paired without the Inft on) ofition• The Ml' AKER then, according to the form ufual in fuck cafes, rave order. to the Clerk, accompanied by the Mace, to go and ac. Sit , l ord Melville, who Wl* waiting in the lobby, that the Houle had agreed to his requdt, and that be was at liberty to come in. The Noble Lord appeared within the Bar,when the Speaker in formed hint, that there was a chair prepared for him in which he might repoie. His Lcrdfhip fat down covered, a slew feet within the bar, on the left hand of the Chair, and very near the place where the Metter of the Rolla, and fcveral of the Law Weed% are aced toined to fit. At this time the Houfe was aflonithingly crated ed, and the utrnofl filence prevailed. After a thou paufe the Noble Lod role, and fpoke in fubflance as follows :—" Sir, in the flotation in which I am be fore you this day, I mutt be fully aware, that I need no mien - Anon aids of firmnefs and fortitude : any man N . :fluid be impreffed viith the mere folemnity of form ; but when it is noshing' ufual or common that engages attention, he who is the objeit of peen rety, if not of undivided remark, cannot but be in duced to with, that in any cattle (bort of that of his fame and honour, and of the charafter of his family, he had never been brought before loch a tribunal. —I have wilted for nothing fo e much as for en quiry. liThatever was in my poser, I have exerted to that end. I have not fucceeded. Every attempt I have made at any explanation of my own conduit has bton in vaio. by all the modes in my power, I have attempted to lay my cafe before the nation and the world. As I have not fucc:eded in my anxious endeavours to obtain the full audience of my fubjeft which the nature of my cafe demands, I am now, Sir, to crate your attention, and that of the Com mons of the Empire, to the vindication of myfelf, againli the cl6rge which the accufations I have al luded to embrace.. I can truly fay, I never more felt the importance of any queflion than I do that of the , prefent. This is all very natural. My honour is on the die ; my happinefs is involved ; my peace of mind, now and for ever, is at flake. I can affure you, Sir, that I deeply feel thefe things. I lament the occa lion for this fcrinus appeal to the confciences and an elertlandings of mankind ; but Handing on the t onßi tution, and enjoying the legal priiileges of Parlia ment, I am unappi ehenfive that the minute tediouf nefs of a juitification will at all impair the force of Tea fon, sir the authority of evidence. I will, therefore, mow advert to the hi Rory of thofe proceedingson which the Commons of the Empire will probably ptefently be called to legiflate. When I teas firth called on, Sir, for examination by the Commillioners of Naval In quiry, I was completely ignorant of the particular fubjeas which they were deftrous to inveftigate; and was at the fame time wholly unappriied, that all the private accounts of Mr. Trotter, and the banking houfe of Mr. Coitus, were already in the poffeffion of the Commiffioners. Of thefe accounts I was ttu quainted with one item, and had therefore no means of affording that explanation which it appeared the Commiflioners were anxious to acquire. i knew not the exitlence of thefe accounts, I had never feed them, nor did I ever fee them till I taw them in the Appen. dix of the Tenth Report. When the Report did ap pear I felt an immediate anxiety to have an oppor tunity of making tome explanations to the Comtnif floor s, for which, previous to the appearance of the Rel'ort, I was totally incompetent. On the 28th of March I did accordingly apply by letter to the Commillioner%, earneffiv entreating to be again examined on the fubjelt. What the precifc words of this letter were, or in what terms the reply was couch ed, it is needlefs for me to (late, particularly, as they are now both on the table of the Houfe. It is fuffici ent for me now to remind Gentlemen that the Com miffioners declined acceding to my requett, on the ground that the Report was before Parliament, and that it remained with their wlldnen to determipe what further Reps should he taken in a matter of fuch deep intact% and importance. Thus dilappointed in my endeavours to have my conduel fully explain ed, I law the Refolutions of the Bth of April adopt ed, but it did not appear to me that tmy application previous to that period could have been on my part either regular or juftifiable. I could net be fuppofed to be acquainted with the mode of proceedings to be adopted, or the nature of the Refolutions to be pro porcd. It was, betides, impoffible for me to anticipate *he vote of the Houfe, and contecpiently it was tint Ira me to come forward till that vote was afcertained. A Ittr the vote of the Bth of April, and the fable qu_ot Refolutior, fiat a Committee should be up pointed to inquire fp:cially into the matters contain ed in the Tenth Report, 1 again felt anxiety to have any conduit fubjea e d t o a fall inveßigation. Diffi citifies were however Rafted in that branch of the Lcgiflature, to which I have now the honour to be long. I applied to their Lorithips In the moth earnett manner that thefe difficulties thonld be difpenfed with on this occafion. Their Lordthips, however, doubt lefs from the puma motives, and from the higheft regard Ihr their own privileges, wouid not permit my appearance before your Committee, except tin der filch reßriaions as would have wholly defeated the Mita which I had in view, of fully clearing my eondua from the unfounded charges which had been caR againtt it. Under fuch terttls my examination was nogatory, and therefore it did not take place.— The Report of the Committee is now on your table, an.l notice was given to found on it a motion whole 5 -J_l l }4 t c * P WEDNESDAY, JUNE 12, 1805. objeft was to attack me with Rill greater violence Imo urageihetn - to: pt ofeeute his enquiries.; atatl in than any other nieafure had hitherto evinced. Once framing the Ads which I had the honour to Wag more I ufed my endeavours to be permitted to defend forward, for . bettering the condition of feamen, or myfelf without referve againft the charges of which their furviving relatives, it is but ir •yu ice to fay, that I know myfelf to be innocent, but again have I been his diligence and seal afforded me the mat *Oahul refirifted as to the points on which twin to addicts &Mance. On Mr. Douglas's retiring from the cf the Houfe of Parliament. Agaioft ,no part of the fice, I thought it expedient to appoint Mr. Trotter Refulutions already palled againft sat, BM 1 to be al- to the office of Paymafler, and at the fame time I lowed to enter into any direft defence, and however gave,him power to at in feveral inferior Cervices, to it is the carnal defire of my heart to meet the charges which my other avocations rendered it impoffible for which thofe Refolutionetontain, I muff, in proper re- me. to attend. As to his general conduit in the office, fpat to that body to which I belong, conform inyfelf I mull in jai= allow, that it was not only irre to the limitations. which they have prefcribed. Such, proachable, but highly meritorious. to a courft of then, is generally the 4tuation in which lam placed, fourteen years, not one tingle ianance occurred of when addreffing you on a fubjeft which to meat Lest any payments being for a moment improperly delay is of the deepest intereft. Though I am, however, ed, and of a hundred and thirty-four millions that thus reltriaed, I truft tor your indulgence while I palled through his hands, not even the tmalleft Cum make a few obforrvations on one or two of the Refo- was loft to the public. /n (peaking of the fums lotions of the Bth of April,. chiefly with the view of which, in the courfe of tbefe fourteen years, were (hewing that I fully onderftand, and am not willing rumored to be improperly applied, I again feel my to mifreprefent their tendency and fpirit. Without' Pelf fettered by the limitations to which I have alio any further preliminary difenffion, I (hail go on to ded at the opening of the obfervations which I have make a few obfervations on thole refolutions in which now the honour to addrefs to you. I may Rate, ge my Oldie conduit, as Treafurer of the Navy, is nerally, however, that on no occafion did I fpecifically attacked. On the firft refolutions, it is ever grant Mr. Trotter power to ilraw out any part not my intention now to take up your time, aitthey of the public money for the purpofes of private emo do not contain much that is very intimately conned- lament, and that in no inftance were drafts from the ed with the rubjea in which the atientioo,of Podia- Bank obtained, except on thole terms which the menu is now particularly engaged. On the tooth and law bad prefcribed. If any man means to infintutte lith refolutions, it is impoffible for me not to make that during my Treafurerlhip Mr. Trotter was in a few obfervations. Let me call the attention of the vefled with a difcretionary power of applying the pub- Houfe to the firft of thefe Refolutions to which I lic money, he alerts what is contrary to fat, and I have alluded : defy him to produce a Engle grain of teftimony to so Mat Alexander Trotter, Efq. the Payrtudter of the Navy, eftablith such a portion. If, however, it is, on the , was the perfon, by whom, or in WilaC name the Public Money contrary, meant to he infinuated, that fums of was thus employed, and that in fo doing he aged with the know- - ledge and conknt of Lord V. Melville, to whom he was at the the public money, applicable toparticular a ffignments, fame time private agent, and for while life or benefit he occafion- may not be drawn our agreeably to the Aft of Par- Ay laid out from so to sopece. w ithout eonfiderin g whether-be liament, without fpecifying the individuals to whom was prerioully in advance to his Llordlhip, and whether fuels ad- filch turns are to be paid, then 1 certainty limit contend vances were made fronshispOblic or private balances. This, to be lure, does not neceffarilf apply to me ; againft any filch doetrine. as not being at all deduci but let the Houf e look to the Refolution that follows, ble from she fpirit and meaning of the Aft. lam aware, Sir, that it has been anted of me, whether, in and they will fee that the direft charge is made againn me, acnot only having connived at but participated the year 1786, after the paling of the Aft in queftion, I did not authorize Mr. with Mr. Trotter in the ihiproper application of pub. Trotter to draw certain fums lie money, for the puresof private emolument from the Bank and to place theM in the hands of a au :[. Th at rise Right Hon. Vircount ftlelvWe having bee „ private b an k? Ido not deny having given fuch au gegiyailo, a nd conn i ve d at th e w i t hth aw in g f rau t h e Bank thority, but add, that loch drafts as thofe which , el, for purpofes of private intcrett or emolument, fums I then authorized are effential flw the convenience of Med to hint as Tit-ewer of the Navy, and placed to hid Account t h e public fervi c e . . w h en t h e money was politively in the Bank, according to the provinces of the 15th of Geo. 111. chap. 3s. has hce „ sulky of a ings yiniatke if the imam high wanted; when the heads of fervice were properly beach of duty. , fpecified, when the Paymattet was competently au. The lath and teth Refolutions are of a fimilar na- thorized to draw the money, and no fort_of incon ve lure ; and theft Refolutions have been diffeminated nience took place. Such being the conftant underhand in every part of the kihgdora, under the (acred autho- ing of what the convenience of the fervice required, city of this Houfe ; and.the impreffion which they are lam aftonifhed at the conftruition which has been /calculated to make to my prejudice is fuch as heed put on my conduit for allowing what was only meant' not now be peculiarly infifted on. I with to Rate for the greater facility of bqfintrs. Even the Com then, in the molt esplicit terms, that, whether in this miffioners themfelves are not ignorant of the exiltence place, or in any other offembly in the kingdom, if of fuch affignments as 1 have been alluding to. They loch charges were brought forward in my hearing, admit their exiftence in the Tenth Report, but they I fhould feel it my duty to repel them : in the ftrongett dopint, while they notice them, make them a ground terms, as equally unfounded and malignant. They of charge as at all irregular or unneceffary. Thole are equally hoßile to troth and to juitice. They are who contended. that the money was indifcriminately in every pal-dollar, in every confideration of the Cub- drawn oqt Of the Bank for the purpofes of private jeft, completely erroneous. If I were anted, whether emolument, maintained, therefore, what nothing in I ever knew that . Mr. Trotter employed naval money the (laments of the Report at all tended to corm. for purchafing Exchequer Bills ? I fhould unqualicm- borate. But, really, when fo much ftrefs was laid On ably fay, never. If I were called on to declare, whe- the terms on which the money was drawn from the Cher I ever had any knowledge of his lending the public Bank, the meaning of the Aft did not feem.to be pro money to purchafe Stock ? I thould anfwer explicitly, perly underftood. Moll people talked of the Aft as never. If I were required to Rate, whether I ever a general digeft of all the duties of the Treafurer of connived at his difcounting Private . 13ills with the the Navy. This was, however, quite an erroneous i Public Money , or employing tin the purchafe of Eaft t view of the fubjea. This was not by any means the India or Bank Stock? My anfwer would Rill be.the 01 . 40 0 f thofe who brought in the Aft, or of thofe fame, never. On every one of thefe points, lam free by whom it was paired. The great objeft of the Bill to declate, that I can difelaim all knowledge of any was to make the account of the Treafurer of the Na foul employment of the ptiblic money, and theitfore vy official, and not perfonal. It was defigned too to to the firs part of the charge, which stecuret me of put an end to thofe large balances which formerly having connived at Mr. Trotter's improper applies,- remained in the bands of the treafurer, and continued tion of the public money, my anfwer is conclufive. unaccounted for long after his retirement from power. I cannot, however, leave this part of the difcuffion The whole of the Aft was comprised in twelve (hurt without alluding to another part of the charge, which claufes, and lam Lure no one can ever imagine that fixes on me the ignominy of having participated in in loch fleort enmpati it was meant to lay down all the illegal profits derived from the improper applies. that the details of the important office of treafurer of don of the public money. From the Refolutions cif the na involved . l begleave to call the attention the Bth of April, fuch a fuppofition may be eafily ad- of the Houfe to the difference which there is betwixt duced, and I lament before (uch an idea was even for this Aft and the Aft for.the Regulation of the Office a moment encourard, that Mr. Trotter, had not of Paymafler of the Army. In this loft Aft there been more fully interrogated, for lam confident that were many minute details, and the whole bufinefs his examination would have fully cleared my chem. was fpecifically arranged under diftina heads. AU ter from all idea of fo foul a charge. if Mr. Trotter difcretion on the part of the Paymafler was indeed had been called on to declare whether ' I ever had, totally removed.—This was not, however, the cafe direaly or indireftly, participated in any fuch profits, with the Paymatier of the Navy, who was Rill a ids anftver would haie been of the molt unambiguous lowed to retain that degree of difcretion, without ' kind, and would have put to tea the fufpicion for which , the bufinefs of the Navy might often fuflain ever. Having then a declaration from thofe two per many (trims inconveniencies.—The Treafurer of font, alone competent to give evidence on the fubjea, the Navy, doubtlers, incurred a high refponfibility, that no fuch participation ever took plate I cannot but without that degree of difcretion to which the fee on what grounds of argument, of re:Con, or of , raponfibility attached, the office could no longer be jußice, fuch a charge fhould be repeated, or that it ' efficient. There were in the Navy Office a number fhould gain the (mallet degree of credit. The exit- of payments that could not be made by alignments; lence of any connivance or participation on my part, if it were in all cafes requifite that the names of I therefore, do mat ftrenuoufly deny, and I call oh 'the particular individuals to whom the toms fo any man in this Houfe, or in this country, to thew me aligned were to be paid, the utmoft degree of embsi a tingle tittle of evidence. But, Sir, a great deal has rafiment would neceffarily enfue. I could put the been Paid of the intimate conneftion between Mr. Houfe in poffeMon of many inftances of the impoffi. Trotter and me in pecuniary concerns, and hence an bility of fuch a fpecification. In November tat there• argument has been attempted to be railed that the were claims for fibres to the amount of 60001. and participation of the profits mat have been a matter upwards, all in furs of different amount. Some as of neceffity. On this fubjeft there has been fo much high as three or four hundred pounds, and others exaggeration of Ratement, fo much prejudice, and in- much below twenty pounds. There were at the fame deed fo much falfehood lately before the public, that it time (hips claims to the extent of fax thoufand eight is the more neceffary for nee to Rate fficwily to the hundred pounds, where the Cum in feveral cafes was Houfe, what was the nature and extent of this con- as low as one pound ten (billings. It is needlefs for neftion, which has formed loch a copious ground me then to infill on the endlefs embarrafrment of pay • of fcurrilous abufe. When my contieflion with the, ing then fours in any other way than by alignments Navy Office firft commenced, I found Mr. 'Prater a to a confiderable amount. It certainly was much Clerk in Somerfet Hotife, and my firft introduftion more convenient then that the money should be was through his conneftion with Sir Gilbert Elliott lodged in a private bank, where it was perfeftly fi end Ivlr.Coutts. Ilion difcoveredthat he was remark- cure, and at a convenient diftaoce from the office, able for his diligence and ability in his butinet4. He than to be under the neceffity of fending to.the Bank was fill recommended to my notice by the clear Rate- for partial and trifling payments. The Ail of Par menu which he prerented to me of the claims of Ika- Hamm lays nothing at all on thefubjea of drifts as men, as well as the relatives of thole who bad Cal- being an illegal mode of transferring the money from len bravely in the fervice of their country. My at- the Bank. On the contrary, as loon as the affign tendon was then direfted to the improvement of the menu are made by the different Boards to the Trea fituation c,f fo valuable a chars of the community. I Curer of the Navy for parts of' the public (=vice, the ot...mm. • ha:9l4y r . j ' I . PitTCE SIX-PENCE. I legality of the drafts daunt poi4 l lY be difputed. I I will rumple, Sir, that there is an affignment tor the payment of the claims of-ten different individuals, it will not furely be pretended that a draft for the pur pole of obtaining mono Y to pay them altoge her would be at all illegal. This I know, that it has, always been praftifed, and I defy any man to fhew me a Ingle iota in the Aft to prove that the framers of the Adt had the fmalleft idea of preventing a prac tice fo obvioufly fuggefte s d by convenience and expe diency. In this cafe the alignments were made, and the money was drawn from the Bank. After it was fo drawn, I really cannot fee that there can be any material difference whether the money is kept in the iron chef at Sotnerfet Houle, or at the Houle of a private banker poffeffed of a chandler which raper feded all danger of the public property being endan gered. The AEI has not been prohibitory on this point ; and let it be recollated that when the affign ments are made over by different Boards, the money is no longer the property of the public, but of the in dividual to whom it is atligned, and who from that moment becomes refponlible for its application. It is clear, indeed, from the circilmftances under which the Aft was framed, that loch a prohibition of the application of alignments was not in the contempla tion of the Legillature. The.Adl was grounded on the Refolutions of the Committee in 1782, and thefe Refolutions do not contain any thing fpecifically pro hibiting the iffuing of drafts on affignments properly arranged by the refpative Boards. The Report Rated the exigence of the pratice I but, when the Aft pared, .no clank was introduced to prevent its continuance. The Treafurer of the Navy was, as I hive already remarked, left to his dircretion, whether each affignment fhould be partially paid by a particu lar draft, or whether one draft was to be applied to a variety of alignments, to be afterwards individual. ly difcharged. On thefe grounds, then, I cannot al low, Sir, that I am at all joftly chargeable with a vio lation of an AR of Parliament, in fuffering money to be drawn from the Bank, on affignments, and to be lodged in a refpalable banket's near the office, when it was known that no poffible danger was 'incurred. —But, Sir, even were she view of the AR which I have taken, incorredt, in the opinion of a majority of the Houle, fill I cannot help thil i king that my condo& by no means deferves thorn hatili and oppro bions epithets which have been applied to it. I have a t h atf h A e wa w : al sad y wl o a u msf un t a yo i eetl yguiltya t gro unds aofff o ja f r d w b nly i f l oin u i l n e t t i e r e r a af p n r f On e gy ta c f t or cs io o n t n hi o o n f f ki th d n i g e e have been vary of a violation, but finely not of a grofs violation of the law. I may have been guilty of a breach, but not, finely, of a high breach of duty. Ilitherto I have been anxious to Rate my views on this part of the fubjed, in an ab (bat point of view. 1 that' now fay a few words as to any emolument which Mr. Trotter might have derived from the life of the money in the hands of the private Banker. I confers, Sir, the impreffion nn my mind was, that in confequence of his connec tion with this Banking-houre tome emolument was in all probability derived. I was indeed the more in clined to this opinion from what I have known to be the pratice in that part of the kingdom with which I am naturally bell acquainted. I fay this idea chiefly arofe from an impreffion arifing from the knowledge of this pratice, becaufe, certainly, I did not derive any certain information on the fubje&. It is true, that the pratice of lodging any fum of money in -- the hands of the private Banker was dirconti nued, for three mouths at one time, and for three months at another. Mr. Baum& was not quite fa tisfled of the expediency of the pradlice, and Lord Harrowby had his fufpicion that an improper IA might be made of the pubic money fo vetted. Nei ther of thefe intelligent men however bad gene be yond a fufpicion. None of them had openly and diftinftly declared their belief, that it was really ap plied to fpeculations in the money market. They conceived, perhaps, that the only motive for fo de pofiting the money was private emolument, but they had no official opinion that loch emolument was de rived to any confiderable extent. For my own part I do not fee that the praCtice is liable to very knout oblations. On the contrary, I can fee eafily, that wider proper regulations, a plan might be formed of lodging the money in a private banker's,that would - give many facilities which can never be obtained from the circuitous mode of bringing it, even on the flight eft occafions, from the Bank of England. In a courfe of fourteen years, no inconvenience has been fuf tained from the prallice. No improper balances had been colleCied, and no part of the public fervice had been in the flighteft degree retarded. I know, in deed, Sir, my letter in anfwer to the precept of the Commiffioners, calling on me to account for the mode in which the money of the Navy had been drawn from the Bank, has been urged as a matter of criminality. I think I have already Rated, that at the time the Commiffioners called on me for fuch an account it was altogether impoffi ble for me to produce ir, becaufe the means of pro. ducing it were not then in my porfeffion. The Com miffioners had feen Mr. Trotter and Mr. Coutts' psi vate accounts, but I had not obtained any accers to there documents. I knew tint befides, except gene ' rally, what the Commiflioners really wanted to al-cer tain by my examination. To their requifition my anfwer was of courfe general, finee Trotter had de clared the accounts to be to blended that he could give me no fatisfadlory information.—Under fuch circumflances my fit nation was peculiarly entfiarraf fing ; and to a quetlion. whether I had ever partici-. paled in any profits aiding from the ale of the pub lic money ? my anfwer was, that I had never know ingly enjoyed any fuch participation. As to other fums of the public money not applied to Naval pur ports, my reply was fimple. that confidential connec tion prevented me from giving the Comasitlioners all the informati-n they detirect. The only reafoa which could have induced me to anfwer to the belt of my recollation to the fun queftion of the Commiffioners was the blended nature of the accounts. I confers this anfwer is at fiat fight, in point of form, fubjeU to I cettaia degree of objtpion. This I mult fay, however,