Star. — London, England, 1801-02-20 00:00:00

• the Honourable llaronct relative to the charges] for 11..1 ind not being particiilarly fpecified, he obferved, that the Effinuttes for the Army, Navy, aria ....Rinance, had been made for the whole United Kingdom, it being ncedlels to - make fepa. rate Eftimates, as Ireland was of pay a certain pro portion of the whole expcnce, and with refpef to that head of Supply alluded to by the Hon. Baro net, entitled " Mrkellancons," it had been um foi mly the cuflom to vote a grofs tarn under that head, of which the particulars were afterwards more minutely Elated. He now c, ifhed to Illy a few words, in anfwer to what had fallen from an Hon. Gentleman (Mr. M. A. Taylor). He could not help protefting, in the ltrongelt terms, ;Taira bringing forward flatcmcnts which could only tend to deprefs the thength of the country and caufe an unmanly defpondency. The Hon. Gen tleman had come down to the Houle with certain papers in his pocket, how long they had lain there nobody knew, which he had taken fome trouble to read to the Houfe, and of which the fum total was, that the Poor's Rate had increafed in certain parts of the country. This was the fum and fubtlauce, and the v•Ily fad they contained, which, after all, was perfeCily Well known to every one, and could not be denial. There was no doubt the preffiire was great upon all ranks—he lamented and de plored it—but was it to be contended that in a great flruggle, in a momentous conteil, on the dim of witch the exi Renee of rich and poor equally depended, the rights and interefts of all were to be facrificed, became there happened to be an increafe of the Poor's Rate in Ibme particular diftrid ? He acliii;tted the flatement of the Hon. Gentleman, that the Poor's Rate had materially increafed fmcc tL crnimencement of the war, and lamented as much as any one ; but was it a fair reafon for en deavouring to deprefsthe fpiritofthe country,which had already Rood a trial molt revere, and was yet perfectly capable of meeting one Rill more fe vere ? Peace, it was contended, was the only re medy r—he wilhed as fincerely and as ardently as any man to fee the re etlablifhment of Peace, when it could be carried into effeCt confiftent with the honour and interefts of the country. Admit- . ing the, general diftrefs, was it proper, was it po litic to proclaim our diftrefs to our enemies, or to give them information of the Rate of the country, which could only terve to augment its calamities and add to its misfortunes ! In the next place, how did the affertion of the Hon. Gentleman, that the war was the cattle of the increafed poor's rate, of the ruined trade, and decayed manufaftures, which he &pitted in forcible language, agree with thole aliertions which had frequently come from the other fide of the Houfe, that the commerce of the Country, which had vifibly and manifally in creafed during the war, was wholly artificial, and would vanifh immediatclyupon the return ape= ? bow were the two contradidory affertions to be re conciled ? If the commerce of the country, flourifh ing as it undoubtedly was, and increafed ss it un doubtedly had been; during the war, was wholly artificial, and depended upon the continuance of the war, then how coda the war be the means of ruin ing merchants, and taking away the employment of - manufadurers ? And if it was thus artificial and dependent upon war, why then the fo much wifh ed for peace mull be, according to their own doc trine, the ruin, inftead of the fafvation of the coun try. If, on the other hand, the war had actually injured the commerce of the country, and peace was ncceffary to preferve it, why then what be came of the affertions of Gentlemen—that our com merce was wholly artificial—that by war ithad ri fen, and by peace it mull fall ? Thofe Gentlemen were reduced to this.dilemma, they had made two affer tions cuntradidory to,each other, and one mutt be renounced : they mutt either take the one, that the increafed commerce of the country was entirely to be afcribed to the war, and then they mull give up all their affertions of the ruined Rate of the country, and admit peace not to be defirable—or they ;44 deny the Rubborn fad, that the comma cc of the country had increafed during the war, and then they may declaim upon the ruin of the coun try, and the neceffiy of peace ; but all the ingenui ty of thrill: Gentlemen cannot make war produce two different cffeets at the fame time—at once to in creak and to ruin the commerce of the country. When Gentlemen talked of war in fuch general terms, and of the neceffity of peace, he withed they would be fo good as to confine thenifelves to the war with France, to which alone their affertions ought to refer, and not confound it with a war un dertaken for the defence of our maritime rights and of our naval fuperiority, undertaken for the defence of our honour, our independence, and our exillence. Much fcepticifin had been dif played in the language of fii:ne Gentlemen upon the Inhjed of maritime law, who had expretfed themiclves, he would not fay with ignorance, but with much diffidence—for they cutely mull allow the necellity at lead of our war with Ruffin, and the nccellity there is for its continuance, if we had the 'cal} with to defend our rights, and maintain our naval fuperiority ; at any rate, when Gentle men talked of war, they ought at leaft to diflin gel between the enemies with which the coua try was engaged in hcftility, as they mull be per feCtly aware a broad and marked line of diftindion was to be drawn between our war with France, and our haftility with other Powers. He had, he raid, enlarged upon thmc topic:. much mote than he intended, hut he thought it of material impor tance that the f i thit of the country Mould not be by atements calculated to excite de- Ipondency, and that our enemie , Ihould not be' led to imagine the country in -1 Rate of dillrefs and overwhelmed by calamity, when its commerce was increafing, its rcfources flourifhing, and its fpirit yet unbroken. Sir Joria PAIN LL and Mr. A. TA V 1.01( feve rally explained. Lord CASTLI RUM,. obferved upon what had fallen from his Right Honourable Friend (Sir John Parnell), that the mod: of voting the Sup ply here was totally different to the method prac tiftd in Ireland, when his Honourable Friend with much minify exercifed the office to whkh that de partment appertained. He admitted it had been sue cuflom in Ireland for the Commit inners. of I Accounts to fend in thole a-.count‘ in the manna fiateel 'by his Honnumble Friend, ttit ob fcrvcd it was found a had pradtice to vote money ; after its applicatk , n; at any rate, not lo much to he preferred as the method of votin7 by cllimate, which was at length adopted, when the former fell into difitfe. The accounts were hosecver pre pared, and might be inipeaed at his kilnre by ale 1-lon. Bamaet. He could not admit the anima expellees of Ireland to be fairly Rated by the Han. Baronet when he gave the amount of Jail year', expence as a criterion, bccatile the expenditure of lall year seas fweiled by temporary conics, part;- calarly the compenlation of Boroughs, all of which were to be deduaed before the net expenditure of Ireland could be afeertainc;), which would then be found to be 4,900,c001. Mr. Hoauousc ipoke at confiderable and vindicated his Honourable Friend, (Mr. Taylor) from the mifreprefentations of the Chan• edicr of the ,Exchequer. He conceived that the criterion of the profperity of the country ctiabliflu:d by his Honourable Friend was per l'ealy fair, since it prefented to view a fcries of ycars in the courfe of the war, in every one al which the diarels of the people bad increafed. Nor could lie imagine that the argument deduced from it was liable to the charge of contradiaion, ;ince though in colonial articles and others, the demand for which is increafed by war, the great • bulk of the manufiteiures of the country mull of nectility he diminifhed. He inflamed in illuflra tion of his pofition, the flare of all the North of England, where at this moment the manufac turers are maintaining their workmen at a confi del ;ible lot's. This he maintained was more par ticularly applicable with regard to the woollen trade, that liaple manufatturc of our country. He was as unwilling as any Member in the Houfe to encourage defpondency, but he thought it fair that the people ought to know the truth, and be afccrtained of their real condition. If nothing but declamations on our profperity were to be allowed, if we were never to be permitted to look but at the fair fide of the picture, it would be expedient to shut the walfs of that leac, and to put an end to all difeuffion. He was not difpofed to accede to the flattering defcription which had been drawn of our financial refources. It was at a time that the Funds were very low, that the Right Honour. able Gentleman (Mr. Pitt) was compelled to re turn to the ancient mode of raifmg Supplies. What was this but a confeffion the that new fchcme was no longer efficient to its intended purpofes, and that under the old fcheme the Funds would fink to their former level ? Toe Hon. Mem bet proceeded to comment at fame lergth on feveral of the taxes propofed. The tax on Tea he thought very impolitic, as having a tendency to promote fmuggling, to which he ap prehended capital would again be introduced in confcquence of the repeated taxes to which this article had been fubjeeted. The Right Hon. Gen tleman had boafled that of the propofed taxes none would fall heavy on the poorer orders. This, however, could not apply to the articles of print ed cottons, much ufed by the lower ranks, on whom it would fall with much weight. The tax on Timber he thought particularly injurious, as tending materially to affea induary in an article of molt extenfive utility. He reprobated the grow ing ptaetice of laying public accounts and papers on the table at fuch a ikon notice as had been par ticularly obfervable in the cafe of the papers pre paratory to the budget. He could not allow that it was confiltent with the duty of the Houfe to take calculations of the probable produce of taxes on the mere affdrtions of Minifters without previous examination. Mr. JOLLITFE °Netted to Tome of the taxes, and hoped the new Mnufters would be more ceconomi cal than the old. On reading of the firft fteolution Mr. PITT obferved there was a miftake in it re lative to the terms of the Loan, which were .251. Conic& and 501. rss. Reduced, but in the Refo lution o f the latter, was written sot. los. inftead of gel. 15s. As it had paffed the Committee in that form, he law no other remedy for the miftake than to reject the Bill brought in purfuance of it, and for the Committee to ht again on Monday, to correct the error. Mi. M. A.'TAYLOR took the opportunity of ob ferving, that he thought it the right and privi lege of every Member of the Houfe of Commons to (tate whatever farts he knew relative to the hate of the country ; and when the Right Honourable Gentleman was about to add 3o millions to the burdens of the country, he thought himfclf per. fzetly juilified in endeavouring to Ihew, from the increafing Poor's Rate, that the people were the lets able to bear thole accumulated burdens. The Refolotions were then feverally read, and agreed to, and tills ordered in purfuant thereto. Mr. PITT expreired a with that the Honourable Gentleman opputite to him, whofe motion flood for to-morrow, u OWL' confider the propriety, un der the prefent circumßauccs, of poßponing it to a fubfequent day. Mr. Mc HOLLS fait!, be did not conceive the ab fence of particular Gentlemen any reafon to in duce him to defer his motion; but if it was any perfonal accommodation to the Right Honourable Gentleman, he had no objeftion to accede to his • IFItROL EXPiDITION. Mr. Sruer rofe, and obferved that he fhould take the liberty of fubmitting to the Houfe motion, which he conceived to be not merely his duty to propofe, but that of the Houk to foßer and adopt. Ile was not acenflonted to trouble them, lie was no orator, had no pretenfions to die honour of it, and thuret . ore [rutted tp their indulgence in hearing him with patience and with attention ; he Lal nu perfonal enmity to any man living, much lets to the Noble Gencrai who com manded that Expedition, or the Right Hinrour. able Gentleman who pliancd it and he fhould matt carefully avoid raying any thing in the comic ofwhat lie fhould offer th at could give offence to either. The objeel, however, was W importance,' and he would proceed on it. This country had ciPtipped a peddigiotia armament fur a particular pAkisofe. and •tiut: a; *anent was dilconigted. Ttus was a tuat.tc: that use country bad a ri;ht to uar i nire h - do. a_a all 1 i'',l:ci• . ‘l. , tls too. lie ked, thai ::•i !de lmoral ( j.tmcz Pi& ) l• .:.! i. that 'ld, motion had bee's on r I irm.r oecalion pod on the ground thiA the iiiooer it wit docmied !boner would the pliblie calah!el to favour of his honour and eh trai - tei. for his part he winked that would turn but to be the cafe, ahil that alfo was a fat:staaion the eventry required.- 13nt fill lie thringlit it caraordihary that fuch an armament Gould Co fail, and flu:it-fore he Was convinced that blame lying Chi thhere, that alone was a eaufe fur invelLgation. This armament lay three months at Qtiiheron, on the coact of Fraziee, as a diverfion, he iiippolcd, againft the enemy ; but he believed the enemy were never diverted with it (a /.!:c ) --From thence it proceeded to Ferrol, where it was difcimtited.—Upon that difcomfiture differences of opinion ;mole among the leaders of that expedition, and Milliners thcmfelves felt regret and difniay on its failure. —.The fleet that conduacd the troops was com manded by brave and experienced officers; and thofe who had the command of the army were equally gallant and brave. It confined altogether of eighty fail of men of war and tranfports, with t e soo difciplined soldiers. On the 2 5th of Au . gull they made good their landing near Ferrol, in high spirits, without molellation, and were all afliore in the Ilion !pace of three hours. A body of feamen and marines, who volunteered their cervices, foon reached the heights that commanded Ferrol, without any refinance. The Noble Ge neral, in his official difpateh, fated, that he ac complifhed the object of his enterprize ; and yet, ftrange to relate, Ferrol was not taken. This was the more odd and the more ftrange, when it was admitted on all hands, that woo men would take it. There was nothing but flight fkirmilhing; and at that the enemy fled in every diteaion, till they al lowed our troops to overlook tile town,and the lea men offered themfelves to fetch up cannon to batter it. So rapid was our fuccefs, and fo unexpeacd, that the officer commanding the engineers de clared, that if his fuggeftions Were adopted, they would be in polleffion of the town in two hours, together with the port, the ileips, the (lore% and the arfenal. The opinion of that - officer was lye]] known. It was, that the town *Quid he eerily efcaladed, that there was not a wall of more than four feet high, no cannon, no (litchi and not more than so in the fort of St. Philip that commands the harbour. The 52d regiment wifhed to attack the fort ; they earnellly de;:red it, and were fent on the enterprize ; they proceeded, and drove every thing before them ; but they had not got further than an old wall, where they were com pelled to remain expofed to a galling fire from the enemy ; another officer, Colonel Stuart, who un fortunately was wounded very early in the affion, would have taken the fort and the town itfelf, had i he been permitted—he did not intend to make any. attack on the Hon. General : this left him an oppor tunity of vindicating himfelf, if even fuch were his intentions—but the information that fpread itfelf every way among the public, both from perfons of rank in the army and in the navy upon that ex pedition, rendered this motion neceftery, and the enquiry urgent; the more particularly fo, as that General had avoided demanding, in the manly way that became him, a Court of Enquiry, the eftabliihment of which would have rendered a Parliamentary inveftigatiou unneccifary after fuch reports. It was known that there was not above 2000 men in the town, and yet 51,500 Britifh troops were thought, by their Com mander, unable to oppofe them. Good Goo I he exclaimed, how extraordinary this mutt be to a thinking man, when he races on a French army overcoming every peril, croffing the Alps up to their fhoulders in (now, braving every danger' ' and every horror, then encountering their enemy and defeating him ; and yet a Britilli army, flufhed with fuccefs, fired with zeal for the objed of their enterprize, but a few dirty hills to pals, and not even a defeated and frightened enemy in view, were:diverted and dragged from their purpofe, and coolly commanded to return and retire. This, as it might naturally be imagined, produced dif content and divilions ; this became the &nation of that army. Inftead of flattering fuccefs and victory, cold diimay and difappointment. Thefe were matters to excite enquiry.. Confidering the rank of the officer who offered his fervices; confi dering that they were not morc than a rnile from the town, on the heights commanding it ; the muni cipality aßually affembled for the purpofe of de viling and propofing terms of capitulation; he Paid thefe put together afforded abundant ground ' for enquiry; the more fo when it was known alto that notwitlifiand;ng the fituation of Ferrol, the Honourable general never fummoned it to fur-' render. How unlike the proceedings of our Ge neral commanding the expedition againft Cadiz; there was no attack made, and yet there was a Commons fent in. For his part he was not very fanrinc that the Houfe would he perfuaded to go into the enquiry, yet it was a juffice due to every man in the army, : end in the navy, that was upon that expedition, a ftigma was calf, and it ought to fall in the right place. Every officer fpoke in the ftrongeft terms of the failure, and they all exprellid thernfelves at a lots how to ac count for it ; tlic officer of engineers undertook to carry it with the lots of very little more than two hundred men, probably not fo much, yet that officer was not even permitted to attend the Council of War; this alto was a ground of enquiry; added to that, the cirmunfiance of ail. abling the navy of the enemy, getting Fair fion of their Ibipping, their (tom, and arfenal, In fall, however, it appeared, that on the even ing of the 25th, we were every where firecefsful ; and on the morning of the 56th, the cad Regi ment gave three cheers, certain of fuccefs and of getting pdfelion of Fort St. Philip, where boats fay ready to carry off its dender garrifon, and that garrifon and fort commanding the harbour, and not more &Mica%) yards diftaat ; yet, notwithftand ing all that, to delift from our enterprize in the moment of viuury, and tamely delkrt it. For all this the nationdemands inveftigation, and will not be emoted tridi paaping s ditto ports, and fending *sets mid armies ex)editiceamatiog over the tie .:1 But CCII mire ext . . - atrdinar7 app encittii ~ vent \‘,ll and three millions 11,:d h,.n e• i ct eqn;pping this vaLi armaraent.Hllei Mr. 1'1:t lied t& 11ilte his - IL:ad), Mr. Stint iemarke,:, that by ke of the Right lion. Geirleinal.'s Bead, he anticipated there no fucce; , , tend • Its motion. But, laid lie, it coil more than two uc three When our fueecs had `has foc i:ceded is every point that gave them command th•s: town, the Hon. General ludltated thin lhout.l continue his operations, Islam an ()nicer oirerea with tyro men, failors and marines, to take Fort St. Philip in 25 minutes. lie trailed the I /mi. General would be able to aflign thong realons Hi) , he with-held his affent, and that alum: lie thought a ground for inquiry. When the army heard that the enterprize was given up, indigia tion burl} forth in a variety of t Ihapcs, and it ap.. proached alined/ to the extremity of mutiny : and; therefore, when a body of nearly 2o;coo foldiers, failors, and marines exhibited fuch fymptoms of dilapprobation, was not that a fubjett for enquiry; nay, even if 5000 or 2030 to expreflzd them (elves? After this dialler the troops proceeded to Vigo, and, under its walls, one of our men of war fent out-its boats and cut out a French priva teer ; and the tailors did it the more to ferve as an example to our General, they obferved, to c mvince him what Britons were capable of performing ; and more, the Captain of the privateer laid, hearing of our difcomfiturc, that if a French General had been fent out on the fame expedition with but ;oo men, add failed in his enterprize, he would n:ver have dared to return to France. Alter all this, however, the Hon. General at the moment of quit!'n • Fen,' charg,ed his men not to be difmayed, "for the w : e only departing to reap new laurels." But u :,at the laurels were they never heard of from that hour to this.—ln rapport of all thefe circumfiances, the Hon. Gent. mad three letters he received from different Navy Officers commanding upon that occafion, all of which expreifed, in the ftrongek terms of indignation, lurprize; and regret, the failure of the attempt at Ferrol, and detailed all the occdPrences as Rated throughout the Hon. Gentleman's fpeech. [Whilft reading one of there letters, he was called to order by a Gentleman un der the gallery, who fubmitted to the Houfe the impropriety of reading letters of that nature with. out avowing their authors; but he was allowed to be in order, and proceeded accordingly.] Thc Hon. Gentleman laid, there were letters from Gen tlemen of the navy, whole charaderiflic was blunt nefs, not inflammatory. But it was nut his inten tion to fubmit any letter there whole author he would not announce if the inquiry &mid he in fti tuted, and thefe officers claim it, in that they are confirmed by thofe of the army; both parties de mand it, and it fhould be granted.—Mr. Sturt then was proceeding to read a letter from an Offi cer in the army on the fubjed, when he happened to mention the name of Major General, the Earl of Cavan, when Colonel Gafcoigne Paid, that cor dially as he agreed in the general principle of the inquiry, yet be could not fubmit to hear the names of particular perfonages mentioned in that way. Mr. Sruar obferved, that he meant nothirg perfonal to that Noble Lord (a cry of hear, bear; go on, go on, prevailed, aid he procee&d.)—He fa;ci, without any imputation to him, officers, on ac count of the variation of their fituations, might form different opinions, without meaning ill to any other officer. and yet be right in their conjec tures, and therefore he was not blameable is merely reciting their opinions, whether wrong or right. He again declared that he neither meant or intended any thing perfonal, even to the Ho. nourable General who commanded, much lefs to the Noble Earl who was under him in command. Upon the whole, as there citified fuch rumours, filch variety of opinions on the fame fubjed, fo capable an armament for the enterprife under taken, fo complete a failure, and no apparent caufe for it, the Houfe was bound in duty to inrefligate it, and that with as much (peed as the nature of the object would admit. lie thanked the Houfe for the indulgence they (hewed him; and having mentioned a circumftance that never appeared in a Gazette, vit, the lots of aoo men, and the tranf pert that conveyed them near the harbour of Fetrol, he concluded with moving, 6 , that this " Houle do refolve itfelf into a Committee of the ".whole Houle, to enquire into the mules of the " failure of the expedition to Ferrol." The quellion being put and (wooded; Sir JAMES PULTSNEY then role, and (poke to the following effect truft, Sir, that it will he needlefs for me, upon the prefent occafion, to make any apology to this Houfe, for taking the very earlieft opportunity of offering myfclf to your no tice. However difinelined I might feel myfclf on any other occafion to trouble this Houfe, on a fubjea in which I was perfonally interact!, I fair ly _own I feel no fuels difinclination at prefent.— Mier what has been laid, Sir, within tl:efe doors, on the fubjed of the prefent motion ; after all the clamour which has been railed upon it without doors after all the vague and unfounded inln tious that have been fpread abroad, the Houle cannot be ailonifised that I fhould be anxious to embrace the firft opportunity of hating to it the real grounds on which I acted. For giving me this opportunity I therefore feel under the moll ferious obligations to tho. Honourable Gentleman who brings forward the motion. But, however anxious I - naturally feel to Rate to the Houk my ideas on the prefent occafion, thould fuch a hate ment lead to any difelofure of his Majeftr's flrudions to me, or Ilsould it in the linalleft de gree tend to a difclofurc of any of the important political oiled, with'which there infhodions were naturally connected, I humid have found it my in difpenflle duty to have fubmitted with patient fortitude to the imputations that have been thrown out, and to all the clamour that has been railed. But, as after mature confederation, I am clearly of opinion that what I mean to offer to the Houfe, can - have no fuch tendency, I feel midi' enabled • 'to hate- it in the fullea manner. I think I 'hall ' rafter no amtradi.ftiou when I Rate, that all expe ditions of a nature foam to that againft Ferrol, are undertaken eider eircumlances of greater difficulty sad Laud, dim any other sue a mai.