Star. — London, England, 1802-12-09 00:00:00

th e Right Hon. Gentleman to kop ihott in the r ologium which he was paffi on his Right Ho n .ng Friend (Mr. Pitt),, I mud, Sir, obferve, that it is not enough for us to have the mere appearance of, iCcitrity ; for cannot the French Government, at an times, afcertain the (late of adual preparation in which we may be ? Our fituation isvery different f ro m that of France ; and the difference arifes f r om the nature of our Conaution. The number o f men voted by this Houle is a fiibjeet of public notoriety ; and if none are voted, the Government o f France mull know we can have no army : the :a ppearance of fecnrity can of courfe be of no 2V.til. But it is Paid that Bonaparte is not defer- ens to hazard any attempt againft us, becaufe he has every thing to lofe and nothing to gain ; and it is urged, that as ;he French have felt the force of o ur arms, they will not wantonly attack us. Ts it ,AEL•Ie that we can he fuch (hangers to the work ings of mortified pride, efpecially in the bofom of a man like Boniparte, as to think that he will not r ak every thing to gratify his refentment, more par. ticularly as hisaggrandifernent mull fupply him with new and copious means for accomplilhing that end ? The motives that urge him on, are certain ly more imperious that thole which aetuated the Bourbons to engage in bold and daring enter prizes, and conflantly to afpire at univerfal empire. They had fome regard to hereditary fuccelllon, and the various relations connefted with it : but Bonaparte is under the moral and phyfical necef fity of coming to an agreement with his fobjeas, that he will make them Ilfger: of the World, if they will but content to be hit Slaves. I cannot, as an inhabitant of this Country, fit quite at my cafe when I fee him convert Holland into a Province, when I perceive Pruflia under his influence, Auf tiis under his contmul, Spain under his feet, Por tugal at his beck, Turkey encompalfed with his toils, and obferve hint taking pofitions in all quar ter: of the world, calculated more for the ruin of onr commerce than for the extenfion of his own. That is the fort of commercial rivalry in which he is willing to engage with, us. Amongft other things we find him at Louifiana for no other pur ple but that of deflroying the commerce of Ja maica. Thefe 'pofitions are like thefe which hil tory inform us was the cafe with.regard to fome armies, and by fuch manceilvres we may at length be deprived of all power of refinance,, and com pelled to yield without a blow. We have a right to think that he imagines this the &pack way to go to work with our domineering cotnmer.- cial, manufacturing, banking Country. I admit, indeed, that he might find himfelf difappointed in the refult, and that all this capital, indttfiry, en terprize, and wealth, would (brink, or be hidden ' , in the bowels of the earth, when under the con trol of a defpot ; butthis affords us no ground for fuppofing that this is not the way and mode in wh:-.:11 he means to deal with us. What are we to think of the moderation of the man who cafbiers with fo little ceremony the King of Etruria, and fo many other Princes ? Can we doubt that the de an:llion of this country is his principal dream at tight, and firll vifion in the morning—that it is is latch and moll fervent prayer, whether his orifons be addreffed to Jupiter or Me;hentft, to the Mcffiah of the Jews, or to the Goddefs of Reafon? We have heard, indeed, that Bonaparte is a great philofopher and a great' philanthropin, and I do not like him the better for it, particularly, as fuch crying mifchiefs have already been the effeCt of the pretended fpirit of philanthropy. I cannot withhold my admiration at the cant of his Ifdieris Ceentry, and been only aftonilbed at fuch jar gon being fpoken in the prefence of, and ad drelfed to one of the molt acute and intelligent men in the world (Mr. Fox). What folly to fup. pore that fuch 'phrafes would pats current upon The King of Etruria bad a (mall (hare in this new/nation, but not, as it (hould teem, upon a very folid tenure : for there was a rod kept for him in the corner, if he did not proceed according to diretlions, like a little boy in a go-cart. lam not here dealing in invective, unlefs I am doing fo by barely telling the truth. The Firft Conttil has felefted a pleafant family party, fome of whom he treats with good dinners and entertain ments; but what I have to deprecate is, his mak jog (;rest Britain one of the family. I (peak not from any particular information, but from my ap prehenfions and my fears, and I therefore do not fay to you, " Go to War ;" but I exhort you to. airtime a thong defenfive attitude. lam not in. different to the fitnefs of men to elercife power. Every country mutt depend upon its fleets, its ar mies, and the integrity of thole who have the ad mininration of the Government. Upon thefe the nation mull always ten for its fafety.—lf what I have hitherto urged may be thought agreeable to thole who are contidered as men of war, I am now about to adminifter a correetive, and do not mean to deviate from the good humour that has hitherto prevailed in the debate. I was no: prefent on the firft day of the Seffion, but I never read any ac counts with more regret than I did that of fome of the late Minifters, who feemed to cry out, "Give us hack our places." Thefe perfons are divided into two claffes—one of them thinks a (late of war preferable to that of peace. I honour fome of them for their franknefs in warning us of our dan ger, but when a Noble Lord (Temple) rays, " re. (lore us to our places, and we will not go to war'" . I know not which to admire Moll in him, the in. genoufnefs of youth, or the incaution of inexpe :knee. I. alk them, would they go tri war for the Helvetic Republic f They reply, " No ;" but they would be more vigorous in their inaaivity ; they trould at leift make wry faces—they would not lie Rock Hill, but inllead of laying them down, they would hold their artnt a & 10. Yet I do :lot know, that while reftraint is put upon ation, !ouch can be got by_ growling. &limners mutt have felt the opprellions and encroachments of France as much as other men, and while they are tefolved not to fubmit to infult, they knew that frith a determination may be made know* in mo derate expreffions—Some fay," Let thefe incapable Gentlemen go con." I alit them why fo I Have they made any threats to France, and if they have Made aiti, have they afterwards re:rafted them ? Thee high minded men would not [loop to fo low a job as that of figning a peace, but they afterwards Coax and call upon BOsibirs to raga For what ? . 1, '""''• ,`" ' - Stint& the *dor teems difaireeable to the:pa, tient, the latter does not like them/ o f his *ord— .. Non unto tc, Zeblde, net pofum dieere quare ; " Sed hos poll'unrdiecre..-uon amo Cr as the pafage of Martial has been put in an Englifh drefs— u I do not like you, Dodor Fell, " The :vision why, I cannot tell ; " But this, I'm Pure, I know full weft.... I do not, like you, Dodtor Fell." [This rave birth to a burit oflaughter for fome mi nutes, in which Mr. Addington himfelf was the firft to join) They afk what right Mini tiers have to our confidence ? I afk by what is it they have forfeited it He did not fee that the time they fucceeded to the Adminiftration was the mo(t inviting. The fuccefs of the Baltic and Egyptian expeditions was more than doubtful, and it was only an aet of chance and (kill that gave• the firft a favourable iffue, and certainly the gratitude of England would not have been too much evinced on the occalion, if even the meaneft of the Tailors were to be crowned with laurels. In the arrangement of Peace, Mini. fters had alto to deal with a man who would be fonfid to retort upon them the infolent language of Lord Grenville': letter, and call for 1 , expe rience and the evidence of fails." I will be .that they did.ilot ipprpye the men. His Friend had faid that he wifhed he bad continued in Office : he would return the compliment by faying, that he wilhed the fpeech he had made had been the !beech of a Miniffer. Had his words come from the mouthof one of his Majefty's Minifters, he would have been fatisfied. He had Rated on a former n;ght, that the honour of the country had fuffered indignity in confequence of the conduct of Minifters with refpeet to Switzer land. We bad conceded without conciliating, and interfered without prevailing. Such was the prima facie fituation of the country. His confidence in Minifters was fhaken, and being fhaken, he fhould be dimmed not to avow it. He had been accufed of mifreprefenting the circumaances under which the prefent Minifters came into office. He had not need, that fuccefs was certain in the expedi. tions to the Baltic and Egypt. All that he had contended for was, that if there expeditions failed, i they were free from refponfibility. Their fituation was therefore favourable. He avowed his with to fee his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Pitt) in the place which he 'thoug ht him belt able to fi ll. He de fpifed the cant of " Give us meafures, not men." If the hate of France was looked at it would eafily be Peen what ww the influence of genius. What had made France what fhe is? A man. His Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Pitt) courted oblcurity, and !tidied to transfer the friendfhip of thole attached to himfelf to others ; but, however he might fe queftrate himfelf, however he might (lady to indi vidualize himfelf, he never would be able to with draw himfelf from the gratitude of people he had Paved. Mr. WI LIERFORCE fupported the meaftires at prefent adopted by his Majefty's Government, and declared himfelf decidedly againft entering into continental conneaions; at the time time we ought not to abftain altogether from interfering in the concerns of foreign Rates. He could not teflea without confiderable anxiety, that we had been the dupes of feveral foreign Rates, whore co operation we could not, in cafe of a future war, depend upon. The Eftablifhment now propofed by the Minifter he. would fupport, becaufe by that means we fhould be able to prefent to the enemy a powerful and united people, againft whom he should not be able to prevail ; and confequently, the power of France might be looked at without alarm or danger. In his opinion the Members of that Houfe ought to abandon their petty differences, and confult the public good alone. He readily agreed in the cu. logium that had been pronounced on the late Mi• filter he confidered him as a man fent by l'arys t• DEN c e to rave his country, and one in whore hands the affairs of a great nation might be rarely trufted. Mr. Fox rote a little before twelve o'clock, and at two concluded afpeech of extraordinary arength and variety of argument. At fo late an hour, laid he, when the attention of the Houfe is fo much exhaufted, though they mutt have been equally delighted by what they lately heard from my Hon. Friend, I mould not have offered myrelf, were it not for the turn the debate has taken ; and I there fore feel it a duty I owe not only to myfelf but r my conftituents and my country, to fay a few words. The Hon. Gentleman oppofite (Mr. Can ning) has attempted to anfwer Tome part of what I Paid on a former occafion, by totally mifreprefent ing ; and that part of it which he does not mifre prefent, he does not attempt to anfwer at all. Now this is rather wonderful, confidering that the Right Hon. Gentleman is not deficient in abilities, and certainly not in readinefs. He need not there-. fore have waited for the affiftance of newfpaper maatements, or any other fpecies of affittance, fence he might have replied on the fpot to that which he cenfures. He begins with faying that the power cf France is now " Con, by me.— " Confeffed" by me ! And was it neceffary that the Right Hon. Gentleman thould now, for the firft time, find out that this was " conk fl ed ?" Did the Hon. Gentleman never hear me mutt dif daily charge it upon his friends, the late Mini (try, that by their mifcondua they contributed fo much to the aggrandizement of France ? But he complains that I have not propofed a remedy for Br II the It Ge bold to fay, that, every thing confidered, the Peace was as advantageous as could be ob tained. The Loan was afterwards made upon terms perhaps ton favburable to the public ; and in the lalt General Eledion it was known, that never did any Adminiftration interfere lefs with the choice of the people, though one of the Ex Mini(ters (Mr. Dundas)_was careful in the North to take all the Eledioneering Winer's upon himfelf. The Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Ad dington) in the fituation of Speaker, had certainly, and I fpeak it with great refpeCt, much perfonal ad vantage in point of dignity and appearance over his Succelfor ; but it was not to be expeded that he fhould carry with him into the Cabinets of Europe the qualities and language of Speaker of the Houle of Commons. He was not every where to have his, Trident borne before hith like his iWace. He was not to fay to the exiled and difperfed Kings and Princes' of other countries " Gentlemen, take your places;" and fay to chore who obtruded themfelves into their fituations, " Strayers nue withdraw." When the French and Garmans were contending for both fides l of the Rhine, it would have been ufelefs for him to pro'claim " the Ayer nusfi go forth," or "Ayes to the right, and Noes to the left."—Thefe things he could not do, but he effected every thing that could have been expeded from a reafonable man. Is Mr. Pitt to come to this Houle now, and attempt to fuperfede his own nominees ? For none of us forget the encomiums he paired upon them in preference to all others, and only with a finale exception, I believe, in favour of my Hon. Friend (Mr. Fox). The Miniffers however have been called a naufeous mixtu e, but I dare fay the Ex-Minitter thinks the contrary. I believe he is one who has no objedidn to a glafs of wine ; and in that I mean refledion on him ; bin he malt certainly think, that the prefent Miniffers are like a bottle of 'okay, when drained to the laft and grounds, by filling :he bottle with white wine, has only to Rand a little, and then 'cis as good as the former. Even after this recommendation, fome of ihefe Gentlemen voted the thanks of the Houfe to him, inaead of a Statue, which, had it been erected, would be as well decorated with the Olive Branch which he defended, as by the Lau rels of War. I, for one, think too much of his dignity to fuppofe him playing fuch a double game, as openly to fupport and fecretly to under mine the Miniaers. I have heard of great chefs players direding at the fame time two games in different rooms, but it would be as much folly to be playing from one band into another, as it would be to attempt on a chefs board to cheek a King, as the late Minifter did his Majeay, by holding him out to the kith as the enemy of the• Roman Catholics." —He then proceeded to comment on the conduit of chore who continued to perfevere in the War, againft Mr. Fox's warning voice, that it would only make France arong. They would make no peace with a Jacobin Republic, but Paid, " Approach me like the rugged Ruffian Bear, the evil that is confefred. .tut has ..ie Hon. , 2n. The arm i d Rhinoceros, or Hyreanean Tiger— tleman himfelf pi opofed any remedy ? Some fay, Take any &ape but that"— but Bonaparte has done every thing for them.— and that but few, go to war. The Hon. Gentle but was thought to be an Anteus, always man does not fay 10. Yet what remedy has been riling with redoubled firength, but he crufhed it propofed t except the high tone and fine words in riling which fo much reliance feems to be placed, I at once, by giving it the true fraternal hug. The have not yet heard. It is not faid that the two parties in oppofition, he compared to two men condua of France to Switzerland , in the Ger - man Indemnities, and other articles of complaint in the boat of a balloon, who could afcend or de fcend with pleafure, but neither floor to the right or left. Mr. Windham was following the machine againft France, are tingly grounds of a new war, nor is it faid that taken together they amount to a with gas, while Mr. Dundas was opening the valve caufe of war, for if they do, in the opinion of the to let it out, and make the anchor drop upon Come J Right Hon . Gentleman, why does he not (late it fugar ifland. He reprefented Bonaparte as an in- las a fpecific charge againft Minifters, that they do N ftrument in the hands of ov:peace, not only for not advife his Majefty to declare war ? If he does mifchief, but , for the better purpofe of making t every io . E s n rig d icionincall:iddeidrilhrs a h n um lo o v u e r h o i u s s own Conftitu• and elegant , Speech, by declaring his opinion, that this great I country had no retreat in infignificance; and that if we were reluftantly compelled into a War, we fhould purfue it with vigour and effea , or refolve to perifh in the facred flame, with glory and with , honour. M v r. CANNING rejoiced to coincide in molt of the not think we ( hould go to war, where does he and I differ but in the e ffi cacy of fine words, and the high tone ? If he does think war the remedy, I am I ready to join again with him on that gr_ound of ar t gument. But let him fpeak out. Onellon.Gentle -1 man faid, that if there was a perfon in this country, :, the agent' of France, he could not do better than by 1 holding fuch and fuch language. He Teemed to fay, I that he might have fuppofed that thole who held that language muft be the agents of France, if he fentiments Rated by Mr. Sheridan. It would be I did not find that language ufed by Mr. Banks, recolleCted that he had frequently exerted himfelf whom he cannot fufpeft of being an agent of to mull the Country to a fenfe of its danger. What France. The fpeech of that Hon. Gentlemen I cer he had faid mull have delighted all, by its variety, tainly did very much approve. Indeed lam under and what he could only be the firft to applaud, be- confiderable obligation to that Gentleman for being caufe he was the firft to rife up after him. He 1 obe. i in fome fort my compurgator in this charge of be the Houfe would hear no more fpeeches rely tag jag an agent of France, and on this account the on the Chapter of Accidents, but that the tone of fstisfataion his rpeech afforded, may be thought his Hon. Friend would be afrumed by all. He nova not altogether difinterefted. I with Gentlemen proceeded to (fate in what he differed front his would (peak out 1 Do they believe that I (land Hon. Friend. If he and thefe whit thought with up here as the agent of France ? Do they think him were apprehenfive' of the faille dangers his me satiated by hatred againft my own country, or Hon. Friend had fo eloquently defcribed, was i t bribed to betray Its interefts ?—I have been in unreafonable that they fhould a l k his Majefty , s Paris lately, on purfuits fereign to the Houfe, Minitters what was the plan upon which they in. though much connefted with my private occupa . tended to ad ? When there is no dire& communi- dons. Would it be ftrange, think they, if go cation ft 0:n the Throne, when there is no expl ana. Ing to Paris,. to read s ßarillon's Difpatches, and rion given t the only means left of penetrating the find out who *ere the penfioners of France in conduit of Minitters is to watch their Speeches in Charlestand Jame.% reigns : Odfo 1 no bad oppor that Houfe. In fnch a &nation was it to be won- trinity to get a penfion for myfelf 1 If any body dered that it thould Inlaid by any perfonstirat the: it hi n k s ft', 1 (hall not take the trouble to unde bee i approved till matures which wg;F Fr ill 4 .. script titaifq b . atif the y ilo fo, it is a more rational . . __ 777 fort of charge than the conititon place rept - Oath. that I am the Apologia of France. That kind of topic may do very well for thofe who ute it ;—the places where it is ufed ; —and thofe it is intended to pleafe but I fhould exped.fome thing better here. The Apologia of France ! And is not this the reproach ,that is ufed 'in every war, the grounds of which are at all dilinred ? If this be a war not only with France, but with Ruf fia (perhaps that may be a cafe in which in a for nier war I did receive a bribe!), thofe who think that other countries are not tb much in the wrong as to juftify a war, mull lay their account with being expofed to the hacknied charge of being the apologia of enemies. Differ ing from thole who are for large eftablifliments. I hope it will not be expeded that I Orould clear myfelf of a dclign to invite the French to invade this country. I remember, that a near and very refpedable rela tion of mine, the Duke of Ricblnond, was ac cufect, during the American War, of having , it as a favourite objet to procure the Fr ench to in vade Sulks. Proceeding in the way of in. formation, his Grace had an-opportunity of de nying the charge on oath, and making an affidavit that it was no favourite plan of his that the French fhould invade Strifes. Now, as I have no oppor tunity of fwearing that I do not intend to invite the French to invade this country, I hope Gen tlemen will take it ,n my wore. To come to the queftion of the eflablithment of the Army, it may be confidered, whether a fmall or a great army be belt fuited to the defence of the country ? I find it faid, 'that, at formerly, alliances funer feded the neceffity of large e 'abliffiments, now, having no alliances, we fliorld have a large ar my. Now, I believe the arguments in former times to have been diredly the reverfe. It was becanfe we had connedions with the Continent, and not for our own defence, that ftanding ar mies were propofed ; and this the Preamble of every Mutiny Bill, fince King William's reign, Rates. It would have routed the pride and indig nation of our anceftors, if they had.been told that a large (landing army was neceffary for their in ternal defence. No, it was on account of our continental alliances, that a (landing army was kir tified. Not thinking the policy of our anceltors wrong in regard to continental affairs, I cannot al together difapprove a (landing army, an objea cer tainly of great jealoufy. But how does the argu ment apply ? What are the moft glorious wars in which this country has been engaged for the laft century ? They are thofe that are called the War of Succeffion, and the Seven years War. Ndw it is certain that previous to thefe wars, our Peace Eltablifhment was lower than the Peace Elta- Yifhments previous to other wars in which we were lefs fuccefsful. The Peace Eftablifhment after the peace of Utrecht, a period of the longeft ceffation of war, was likewife very low. But it may be faid, that the Eftablithments of France were even proportionably low. If relative proportion be made the rule, it will not be eafy to apply it fatisfa&orily. The truth is, that the power of France is different in its principle, from the power of Great Britain, and hence arifes a neceffary variation in the principle of our offenftve and defenfive war. It is not a ratio of 30, or 40, or 60,000 men, to any given number in France, that . will enable us to judge when our Eftablifhment • is adequate. An Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Banks) al. luded to the eftablifhment in 63 and in 83—Of the latter, which out of doors was ftyled a fcandaloufly low eftablifhment, I, as one df the advifer,s of it, am willing to take the refponfibility. It was men tioned by the Secretary at War, that then we had not Holland againft us. But in fad, at the time of that eftablifhment, Holland was as much in the hands of France as the is now. In effed, France, who had her colonies, made the peace for her, and under the influence of France, Holland remained till the events of 1787 overthrew it. We now come to the power of France—and really I am doubtful whether thofe who fpeak of that power in the moft exaggerated terms, are not in fad fpeak ing what is more agreeable and more ufeful to the French Government, than thofe who talk of that power with greater moderation. Regardlefs of the certainmifreprefentation to which I (hall be fubjea, and the probable charge of maintaining paradoxes, I will maintain that the government of France is lets in a fituation than formerly to make any attempt upon this country ; if it be by invafions that we are to be menaced, and if it be againft invafion that high eftablifhment is intended. If we confider the (late of the French navy, compared with our own, we mu ft fee that for this fpecies of attack there cannot, for feveral yearsat lealt,be any well founded alarm. The acquifition of Switzerland has been baled upon as {hewing a hoftile fpirit. But is this the firft time we knew that the Government of France, part, as well as prefent, were aauated by ambition ? But it is admitted, that the condud of France to Swit zerland, which touches the feelings of all fo much, and of which no man can entertain a (Ironger fenfe than I do, does not form an aggreffion againft this country. Why then fhould it be an argument for adding twenty or thirty thoufand men to our efta blifhment ? How is the danger of our fituation, which my Hon. Friend, as well as others, labour ed by admirable powers of declamation fo much to exaggerate, encreafe.i by that meafure ? Is 20 1 000 men added to our expences,a remedy againft the French attack on Switzerland ? Is men's talk ing bravely then to be the remedy ? Brave words are eafily fpoken, and prove no courage. " He did fpeak prase words in the preach," lays Captain Fluellen, in Henry V. of Piftol, who impofed upon the honeft Welchman with fine words. But inftead of augmenting our army now, might not, upon the old foundation of our army, as many more troops be added in a thort fpaee as any emer gency might require ? Is the danger of invafion to be feared ? In 1779 and 1780, I was apprehen five of invafion, becaufe the fitperiority by fea be ing then doubtful, the French having landed an army, might have been able to fend reinfoicee ments, and compel us to fullain a war upon Eng ground, though I have no doubt that the fpirit and courage of the country might have finally prevailed. But now our fuperiority by fea is uro, queftionable ' and mu ft fo continue for acleaft fora,' time. The French then mutt eoade.,-cor They might, perhaps. finned AFAMdijoit.OP