Star. — London, England, 1827-03-07 00:00:00

F I t 1► the Pruett debt Phbeasanestkos. 'the Protestants were put upon the defame. They weeecisergod with bigotry and oppression: they were charged with those very vice% which used of old to be laid to the accoMat of the Roman Catholics--(Hear.) He was at a loss to account for such a charge. But was there any just i c e in the charges thus pref rred against the Protestants When Honourable Gentlemen told him of the laws Whlch had been passed to the prejudice of the Roman Catholics, they • kept out of sight the transactions which gave rise to those laws; Cr if they touched upon them at all, they did so very lightly, and intimated that those who made them had been deceived, had been led to frame them through deception and delusion, and therefore they argued that they ought no longer to be continued in force. Why until within the last twenty years our Protestant ancestors who had framed those Lows had been revered as the friends of liberty and as the champions of independence--(Hear, hear.)— bnt within these last twenty years, those who bad before been regarded and admired at the benefactors of their country and the founders of her Constitution, bad been looked upon by some as bigots, as iatolerants, and as persecutors.-4 Cheers.) Some vindication, then, of those laws seemed necessary, and he would, there fore, direct the attention •of the House to the occasions which had called for them, and the absolute necessity there was for their adoption. Were the laws, which were passed in the reign of Elisabeth. passed from vague fea r s an d doubt?—were they the result of unfounded leers and apprehensions ? No, those laws were caused by the dreadful sufferings which bad been endured in the short reign of Mary ; and it was for the purpose of • preventing a recurrence of the atrocious and hart-rend sag scenes which then transpired that they were enacted. Those who framed them were spectators of those dread ful scenes; and they were likewise spectators of what was passing in France and in the Netherlands. They felt that the Roman Catholics of that period (he meant no reflection on those of the present day) were labouring to overturn the Government of this country, and that too in concert with the most bigotted and despotic Go. iternment that ever existed, which was that of Spain.— (Hear, hear!) He Would pass from that period to the - reign of James. In that reign fresh laws were enacted, wool among others was that which imposed the Oath of =lance. Those laws and that oath were not ins for the purpose of irritating, taunting, and op reeling the Roman Catholics, but they were passed in consequence of one of the most atrocious attempts that bad ever been made to destroy the freedom and the religion of this country. That oath was imposed to counteract the effects of Popish intrigues. which were directed to the subversion of the Pro testant Establishment. Again, when the framers of those laws to which he had alluded were charged with bigotry, let him call the attention of the House to the . frightful picture which Ireland presented in the reign of Charles, in the year 1641. When they and their predecessors were charged with intolerance, let him call the attention of the House to the dreadful scene of desolation and bloodshed which Ireland presented at that period through the ,maskinations of Popery-- • (Lbw, hear). Was it then, wonderful, that those who had beep spectators of those fearful days, should .• have endeavoured to avert their return, and have pass. . ed those acts—call them acts of severity, if you which had been described as displaying bigotry and • latoltrance ?.--(Hear. hear). From that period of de t ',repletion he rnight pass on to the Revoluuisn. It was tlseoasequence of the nefarious schemes. *Lich had • taken place during the latter part of the reign of Charles the Second, that the people of England saw the dangers . and perils with which Popery was. endeavouring to environ them; and it was to the successful resistance of those schemes and of those endeavours that England might attribute the possession of the glorious free• dom and unrivalled Constitution which she at this day posseued,--(Cheers). But why did he advert to those facts which were recorded in the page of history? Not to cast a reflection upon the Catholics of the present day—No, Goo forbid, that he should for an instant even think of such a design—(Loud cheering) but to prove to. the House that their ancestors were not those bigots and intolerant. which some persons of the present time en deavoured to make them appear. And if in the olden times such lees only had been adopted as were neces sary for the salvation of the freedom of the country, and for the protection of the Protestant Church, so also was true . that in modern times every law had been re pealed which an alteration of circumstances had ren dered unnecessary for the maintenance of the same ends. Every law affecting the exercise of religion had been abrogated, and all civil disqualifications which could . hosiers) with happiness and independence had been re moved—(Hear, hear). The question now was, not titether Roman Catholics should be allowed to pursue their religion, aid to be protected in their different avo cations ? but it was simply one of expedience. The Ro man Catholics laboured under no disqualification which checked their prosperity as individual members of the community ; and the question before the House was, whether it was wise to admit them to take a pact in the deliberations of Parliament, and to fill' some of the highest offices of State? It could not therefore be considered as a question of necessity. but it must be re. gartfed, as he nsaintained it was, a question entirely of expediency—(Hear, hear). And be would not hesitate to say, such was his anxiety to attempt to give peace to Ireland, that if it could be proved that further maces along could be granted without danger to the State and the supremacy of the Protestant religion, he should be most ready to make them. He was perfectly aware that the other side of the question had been supported by men whose genius was an honour to the country which had produced them; but nevertheless he did not feel depressed from that consideration, because he was perfectly convinced himself, and he firmly believed the majority of that House would agree with him in think. ing that in principle he agreed with those illustrious characters to whom he alluded. The first name which be should mention and which had hitherto been quoted as an overwhelming authority on the other side was that of one of the greatest men that this 'or any ether coun try had ever produced. He meant Mr.lPitt—(Chems). The House and the country had continually been told that that illustrious Statesman was favourable to grant. mg further concessions to the Catholics. He perfectly remembered reading the speech of Mr. Pitt upon the, union of Ireland to this country. He remembered,, also. that one of the arguments used t o i n d uce th e a d o p. ' lion of that great measure, was. th a t it wou ld ten d to facilitate Catholic Emancipation—that it would enable, England to grant that concession more easily. Bat what' course did Mr. Pitt take ? why, he expressly stated that Emancipation could never be granted unless sufficient and adequate security was given by the Roman Catho lics against foreign influence and against the united and combined system between Catholics--tbat anima ouch, cos of ' he goillamtver gamut that they s.._ o finberritilign tad to bold*, great That language was in print; n was the .. g uagit of Mr. Fitt, and therefore it was evident that that great man never would have granted Emancipa tion to the Roman Catholics unless they brought for ward sufficient secority—(Hear, hear). The same doc trine was enforked by Lord Grenville. And what was the security which presented itself to his Lordship's mind ? Why, that the Crown should be able to apply it. Veto in the appointment of the Roman Catholic Bishops.— He did not mean to say whether such a security would lave been efficient or not, but he noticed it as contend iag for the principle of security, and that Mr. Pitt was so authority against the opinions which he entertained. There was another name, Mentions alike in the annals of eloquence and in the annals of patriotism, which had also been quoted by the other side as a great authority, to meant the name of Grattan. But what did Mr. Grattan himself say in his recorded declarations? Why, he said, that he never proposed to maintain that further concessions should be granted to the Roman Catholics, without their offering a competent security against foreign influence; end he added, that unless such security was tendered, chit country did but justice to its Constitution in pefudng them any further favour. So that• Mr. Grat tan, like Mr. Pitt, was the advocate of the aecessity of sufficient tecurity being given by the Roman Catholics before they were admitted to further power—(Hear, hear). He went one step further, he came to the name of a Nobleman who was now no mere, but who a few years since had greatly influenced the proceedings of that House, and who bait devoted his best efforts to the forwarding of the Roman Catholic cause. He alluded to the late Marquis of Londonderry, than whom the Roman Catholics had never possessed a mere strenuous, sincere, and indefatigable friend—(Cheers). Bat that Noble Lord was the same as he was in the cause, and had never thought of maintaining that Emancipation ought to be granted without ample security being given against foreign influence. He stated that we must have security—not of oaths alone, bin solid and substantial security against the intrusion of foreign influence— (Hear, hear). He then came to the eminent men of the present day, who added lustre to the debates of that House, by the integrity of their principles, and the splen. dour f their talents. The first man to which be should allude, was that of his Right Hon. Friend, the Secre tary for Foreign Affairs, whose powerful genies greatly influenced the proceedings of that House, and whose authorit was most justly of no mean description (Hear, hear). Ills Right Hon. Friend had over and over again insisted on the necessity of sufficient security, and had repeatedly expressed the impossibility of his consenting to grant any further concessions to the Roman Catholics without ample security being given against foreign indorses. He bad also another Right Hon. Friend of his within his view, who had so often argued the ques tion with amusing brilliancy, and who had but very recently displayed in the cause an astonishing power of eloquence, sarcasm, and ingenuity, but even be (the Right Hon. Attorney General for Ireland) had always, held that the Romeo Catholics must afford security' against foreign influence before they ought to be ad mitted to the stations they now required.,—(Cheers.)..... Were, then, all these great authorities, so much relied, upon by the other tide, for or against him ? He should maintain that they were noes and the anticipas riots that the House would agree with him in iniona the. more especially if be should prove thit the. Romeo Catholics bad always refused to give the security **Se great men bad held to be necessary.—(Hirar.)—Having, 'stated thus much, he would call the attention of the Howe to the amine of the security requisite; and also 1w would ask the question, are the Roman Catholics inclined to give us security ? Let that question be an. swered by an examination of their conduct since 1808. In thatyear a proposition respecting security was aged by the Catholics, and a Bill founded upon that proposition was introduced by Mr. Grattan. That bill, moreover, was introduced by Mr. Grattan in consequence of an understanding he had with some of the heads of the Roman Catholic Church. In a short time, however, Mr. Grattan was obliged to come down to the House, and declare that he could proceed no further with the Bill. Mr. Grattan stated, that when last he came down to that House, he had said he was authotised to propose as a security that the King should have, not an abso lute Veto in the election of the Roman Catholic Bi.bops, but that the election should be under his influence to a certain extent. He added that he was sorry to say he could not longer affirm that the Catholics were willing to offer that security.--Whether he had been mistaken, or whither the Bishops had retracted, Mr. Grattan did not state, for it was the rule with thit great man never to defend his own conduct or reputation at the expense of any portion of his countrymen.—(Hear, hear.) In 181$, Mr.Grattaa, together with the Right Honour able Secretary for Foreign Affairs, brought in another Bill, which it was hoped would prove successful, as it was founded on the principle of adequate security. Again the leading point was, that the election of the Bishops should be under the influence of the Crown, and Mr. Grattan pledged himself that he had authority to make the proposition. Before, however, that Bill had passed she House, the Roman Catholic Bishops had a meeting, in which they strongly reprobated its prin ciples, and declared that it placed them in s worse con - Alden than they should be if the Penal Lawf were re viited. That then was a second retraction on the part of the Roman Catholics, and yet the Protestants were to be charged with being bigots and intolerants, because they refused to confer the most important privilege on a class of men who refused to give any adequate security in return.—(Louticheering.) The Bill of 181$ was lost to consequence of the conduct of the Roman Catholic Bishops, and he would pass over the interme• diate time which elapsed between that period and 1625, when the last Bill was introduced. He repeated that it was monsttously unjust to charge the Protestants with bigotry and intolerance, when they only asked for that which the most strenuous advocate for Roman Catholic Emancipation, declared they were bound to demand. If such a demand, however, was necessary at the outset, it had become more so now than ever, for the Catholics bad shewn themselves adverse to complying with it, and be was firmly of opinion that they never would do so. He thought, too, that the House would be of the same opinion.— (Hear!) He would then notice the Bill of 1825. That Bill was not hastily prepared. It was well considered; it west} well weighed by Catholics, as well as by the Protestants who introduced it, and therefore it showed at once what kind of security the Catholics were its. dined to give. The oath of 1795, bound every Catholic' holding a place to do nothing to alter the state of pro. petty in Ireland. Wag it nothing that in the Bill of 1625, that most important and vital pm of the oath' was omitted ? la the oath of 1794 ems them (Creches* cleaunistasees ealstemed to iftsy their _? Were they to dhpeose with seetnitiekab found such language used by those who exetwiweld unbounded influence, Bot it would, he ks xw , be this was only the language of individuals, and _ to be placed in oppesition to the claim s of , and the argument, he must admit, was spee i oe : If, indeed, he found Ireland rencmiking tin men, and denying all community of sentiment with them, would readily admit that his argurnent.wis o ne be ought not to preis—tiond chem)Z.Bet if be /m o d the men who used this language the objects of re vers praise, and the language itself the theme o f „ utak commendation ; if, above all, be found that the &tame of the men who employed such language ,g rather increased than difitioished by it-_then he said bad a right to infer the general prevalence of tong /Jo i s t sentiment, and to take . the individual s as a wolf of the nation— ( Load and long conkinued In the sentiments he had expressed, it was a satisfaiti o n to him to know that he bid but re-echoed the sentiment; of the illustrious body which he represented—(d s lot cough on the Opposition lide of the House, followed b e general and tumultooisi cheers )zta body ( tominr i l i the Right Hob. Gent. with ncreaged energy), Nu n, eminent for leaning. for loyalty, and for virtue; a b o d e in which the love of science, and the love of their m a i: try, mutually illustrated and ennobled e ac h other„ (Load cheers). The lion. and Learned Gentkmio wile bad attempted, not indeed by words, but by gesture, to throw a sarcasm upon this body, wa s i s . spited, no doubt; by the recollection that he had him self been a competitor for the favour of this distinguitiod body, and had bean distanced in the race—(Hear). g e had oalleavoaretito shew that the Blunt ious individuals wham authority bad been referred to, bad nev er h it sight elite nereerity for ample securities for the P r o. testant Church, wand to induce the Howse to conform to their example. What was it (he continued) that Wai asked? What concessions were those which were required of them? What wu the nature of the subject on which they were met? What was the language of the King's writ, under the authority of which they were assembled ? That writ summoned them to consult upon the AM of the State and of the Church, and they were now call e d upon to admit Catholics to join in their deliberation, upon the affairs of that Church to which they were boo. tile, and to which. if conscientious men, they me e d necessity be hostile. After the passing of the Act by which the 40s. freeholders wete enabled to vote, it test publicly promulgated that the represeosation of haat would be in the hands of the Clergy. This boast us at the last election verified by the fact. The Bill of 1E25, for disfranchising the 40s. freeholders, vu opposed by the Catholic Hierarchy ; and why ? be. cease it would deprive them of that power which they one day hoped to turn to the elevation of tbeit own, and the overthrow of the Protestant Church.. What was the description which one of the Rama Catholic Bishops had given to the Protestant Chuck Ireland ? He had said that she was not the spew the Repulse., but the handmaid of the Ascendancy that when rebuked, she was humble—when encoura arrogant—and had indulged in aunty other etprest of contempt and abhorrence. What mightbe the sequence if a considerable number of Catholic to hers were introduced into that House P He was to say that there were already many lukewarm fries and be feared also some decided enemies of the P team Church, and if an additional mass of power a combined with these, would not the Protestant Chu be subject to perpetual assault? It was not enmy as bad been well remarked by the- Hon. Member Corfe Castle, to know that they should be able to re these attacks, it was not fit that the Church of Engle should be perpetually exposed to them If this powerfc phalanx should at any time happen to be headed by man possessing the energy and talent of his Rig Honourable Friends were they, he would ask, preps to encounter the danger which most arise him soc a combination ? He feared be bad tteapassed ahead too long upon the patience of the Hose—.(Loo cheers). It bad been said that the sate of Ireland to quired some remedy, and it bad been asked what t medy other than granting the claims of the ROAM Catholics they had to prepense. And it had farther been said that in Austria and in 'France no didinctioa a account of religion existed. 'With respect to the law argument he should only observe, that in Austria sod France the Dignitaries of the Church were appointed b: the Sovereign, and that in those countries all compote, deuce with Rome was subject to the superintendence cai Government. In Ireland, on the contrary, they had u Hierarchy appointed without the consent of the Crown v carrying on a constant correspondence with the See e, Rome, tree from all super i nten d ence on t h e put cf the Crown, and exercising, at the same time, an tio• controuled influence over six millions of the sib' ',km of the Crown—Wear, Lear), Theie was tbes D. ' Ma ny between the two cases. To those wbc enquired for sone ether remedy to the evils Aid; ▪ Ireland, and who insisted that they rgait : age Mod where they were, but men either W "••• err le bark he wield ask if it were mall? I!" tilik to boe” that this neeastwe could calm the ague Lion of Ireland ? Gentleman shoeld act w'r I aikated state of Leland as an ark to the Hog vnebont showing that thethepropoardmeasure week' the idiect of okaying it. The effect of this be believed, would be a great explosion et fint, a explosion of wimple on the part of the Catholics w ent, and on the part of the Protestants a Ifni consciousness that they were webdned—(Hear). would perhaps be succeeded by a temporary But permanent tranquillity. no asan who cons' the subject meld aspect to be the conseepteoce Catholic religion was essentially a religion of sec teens --(bear)—aid the Catholic Hierarchy now dee the possession of their church in the hands of heretin He should Woe then to know if that Hier:say. poi!' ins as it did unbounded indeesee, would Mail l ie land to be tranquil tiliCatholic Emancipation had bee followed by Catholic doeniintleo. He might be come VI rest this part of his argument upos, the nature 0 man—but be could refer to express testimoob and ti testimony which, upon this subject, was of the Wee. authenticity. The Bishop of Kildare had said io teen in a pamphlet of which he was the author, that means patios might do mach, but mot* more remained ti b dose. TU question then was, not whether a few Cr tholic Peers or Costumers shall be admitted into Pat liniment, bet whether the Protestant Church shall cur tiatte to exist in 'Mead ? He exhorted the House the not to be away t the question they had to deters' was sothiag less important than the existence of 61 Protestant Establishment. He knew that may we were even now ready to join issue upon that q ' and-if this. Bill passed, be had no doubt that the cm" argument which was now founded upon past • table. ward, apd ovary. opt whcrhad - altasa4l - •tot this Wire vidence gives. before the I,ords Commitbleha the suspiehons of beland, must be deeply impressed with a prise, they found stir • importance ; the words to which be alluded such unba " I Jo swear to maintain to the utmost of my said, that I ri the provisions of Ole Act of Settlement." Was ought not ion* aware that in the Bill of 1825, this part of nation, an • 10 • .1 of their power the House _ the osth was entirely omitted? Was this done ad visedly ? He feared it was, and that it arose from as indisposition to give them the securities they were, fairly entitled to requite. Another remarkable ch.. cumstance was, that connected with that part of the oath of 1793, which bound the Catholics, when in possession of office, not to employ the in -1 Hume they thus obtained to disturb or weaken the Protestant Church of Ireland. Presently afterwards a commentary upon this oath appeared, explaining its meaning CO be, that t'iey were not both to disturb and weaken-, or rather not disthrb in order to weaken, and stating that in any other sense the oath was one which could hot be admitted. Taking the hint probably frees this commentary, in the Bill of 1825, and he particu larly begged the attention of the Muse to the circum stances 'the Word .. weaken" was omittedt Having called oissin4 he w o the attention of p the Houser the oth td these et z emarkable aalthough there Were many others of a very striking character. Was there any body who -could consider this an ade quate recurityfor the constitution? (Hear.) What seems rity did that Biq of 1825 contain upon the important subject of Foreign Correspondence ?—merely this, that it should all pas; through the hands of the Catholic' Bishops, It would perhaps be said that they were not now discussing that Bill, he begged here that his argument might not be misunderstood. He referred to that Bill solely as a criterion of the state of mind of the Catholics of Ireland. That Bill had sodergene ample consideration and discussion previous to being brought before the Howe. It was properly considered *ache ultimatum of the Catholics, and it must be plainly understood as conveying on their part a refusal of any farther securities. What they demanded was simple repeal, unmodified concession. And with proud de,, fiance they 1./fused to make any concessions, to given/Ay securities for the safety of the Protestent.Churcb. The Hon. Member for the City of Dublin, the oth a e p r p s a l i t presented a Petition, and to that Petition he He would ask, if it demanded anything but uisqaalifed and unconditional emancipation? 'this was a boom s however, that the great Constellation of genius to which they had been so triumphantly referred, had never contemplated, and would never have granted,- Then be would ask, how could those authorities, and l high and valuable authorities he admitted they were, be used against him? He was as ready as any one of those eminent individuals to support concession upon the same principles as theirs. He meant concessions combined with ample and satisfactory securities. He knew that an argument would here be urged against hist, founded upon the conscientious feelings of dew Rowan Catholics. It would be said that they caddie* without violating their religion,grant the Veto, or agree to the principles of the Bill of 1813, because they were contradictory to the principles of the Catholic religion. But he woo answer this argument by reminding the, 11 House, that !though some of the Irish Catholic' Bishops had o 'ected to those securities, they had ob• tained the sanc ion of the highest authorities of the itennibh Chord, including that of the Pope himself. Ha bad she d•cuasents now within his reach to prove these fiets,'but it was unkeetresary ) as they were too no-1 'Widen to be disputed. The Right Hanottrable Gentle man Isere referred to she state of the Catholics in foreirs causerie* of which the Gortertsulents were not Catho lic . The Catholic Bishops of Silesia were appointed by the King of Prussia; those of Etude were appointed by die Emperor—awl both in Russia and Prussia all corres pondence with the Court of Rome was under the super. intendence of Protestants—.(Hear, hear). Then let him not be told that it was Incompatible 'with the Ca. tholic religion to grant the securities formerly antici pated. Me object in refusing them was to uphold that clerical denomination which had been described by his Right Hon. Friend. the Attorney General for Ireland, in terms much stronger than any he could em- ' I ploy. if an appeal was to be made to authority, be might appeal to the authority of all the great men who had been se frequently alluded to, and whose conduct he was attempting to follow at an humble distance— (Hear. hear). He would now ask if there was any thing in the present state of Europe to render the same securities less necessary now than in 1813? At that period the Papal authority was dead, and it was the, if ever, that securities might have been dispensed with. Since that time, they had seen the glory and the pbwer of the Papal See renewed. All over Europe, this power was stirring with great activity, everything was in • state of excitement ; and what was most rerberkabie was, that while in this country, those who were pecu liarly loud in their professions of liberal sentiment% were striving to promote the Papal power, all the (Heeds of liberality on the Continent were dreading the effects of its efforts, of its vigorous effuses. and exciting thew. selves to resist its persevering encroachments. He asked the House to recollect the scenes in the South of France, since the year 1814, and to reflect upon the re• vied of the Order of the Jesuits, wbo'were at this time forcing themselves into every country. He recollected : to early youth, reading a popular wort, die history - of this Order, and his astonishment had been excited, this site an institution could ever have been tolerated by any Go. vernment. Little did be think that they should ever see that order revive, obtain the highest sanctions, and be permitted to renew its most extensive and amibitious projects. The revival of t h e or d er was in itself a sufficient reason why the securities thought necessary is 1813 should not be deemed more imperiously necessary at the present time. He knew that although ostensibly employed in education in France, they were actively en t a h c a qiC t ua g gisied re t i nsin i o n df st b ru adli m4t rel a o ll ipa vrta Fel .de d g r T i e s ae ina thq t p i mg o u n isru h tion ad inalle.the re-established in Italy and Spain. He usedthese famle not because be apprehended the establishment of these institutions in Ireland, but because they 'hewed that in no part of Europe at least the Catholic religion was not changed. Then in NIS and 1814 Ireland was tranquil; now that country was in a state of violent ez citement, apparently subject to the dominion of that mischievous body, the Catholic Association, which mi. m tat s ed nd i ed t a t th th ese efr eo w n i c li essiOna f a , bed an e dja y wh et of e th a L ha u ticall a L a te . ; it linsoth ri n g t h , : tbr huande oao ngt f . this body Ireland a giant sap tradsohelontagtelsits of they the con e re s d lituti° th e: selves to mild applications, their prayers had beau din. regarded ; but they, had changed their tone. and had been raised in consequence to the pinnacle of hope ; and then exultingly asked if gentletess would have done M 1 Sal dig i M' .1111. SIO seN wi Hi N