Star. — London, England, 1805-03-07 00:00:00

ANIONIIIIIIIIII i • . PEI' •.• , . . . S ..,.... )' ' . 4 1141 • 4 . ---- 1 11 1. Pr.= • , NUNIEEit 50211 „ -rriTTTI nr% • --;"----.---; .--- 7 .... --.:-.-. --"--- ---77:7-"-"------------ -.----------- - - I _ __ PARLIAMENTARr PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OP LORDS, WEDNESDAY, MARCH 6. Thl Poftage Bill and Loan Bill were read a feeond time. I ord Azov, prefcnted a Petition on the part of thaw frith r. :a, relative to certain claims. It was referred tb the Coat i •:c of Privileges. MR. JUSTICI TOX. !ot d WALSINGHAM, as Chairman of the Com m r -e, to which the complaints againft Mr. Plaice are referred, rote to propofe to their Lordfhips, :ave (hould he given to that Committee to re : - from time to time. This was not the moment to: laying any thing on the queßions which had come under the confideration of the Committee. It was fufficient for him to obferve, that the inveßigation WAS purfued with that attention which its importance merited—but the cafe being no leis novel than im portant, the Committee was defirous that they might have the opportunity of obtaining the inflrueliona of the Houle, when it might appear to them necdrary ' to Tern on any particular point. He therefore moved, that the Committee appointed to confider of the charges againft Mr. Jußice Fox, have leaie to I report from time to time fuch parts of the evidence as may appear to them to be of filch a nature, that if fubflantiated by proof at the Bar of that Houfe, would form a fit ground for an addicts to remove the perfon complained of. Lord CARLISLE thought it unneceffary to give this power. He laid it would be much better if n 1 Report was made until the Committee should come to a decifion on the whole of the quellions before them, and walled their Lorcifhips to agree to give the Committee an infirtglion to that effea. At any rate, if pat tial reports were to be permitted, he hop ed it would be underftond, that no proceeding would be intlituted upon them by the Houfe, until their Lordihips had an opportunity of confidering the whole. Ir the Committee were to be confidered in the maul a Grand Jury, tbcy ought not to re turn one Bill until they had gone through the whole. Lord HAWKES6URY — obferved, that the mo tion propoted did not affea the question Rated by the Noble Earl. The Committee might report or not, as they thought fit, and their Lordfltips would alfo be at liberty, if any report,fhould be made, to defer taking it into confederation until the Committee had gone through the whole of its inveßigation. There might be cafes, however, in which it would be ne eeffary to report oecafionally ; and he could fuppufe cafes, in which great public inconvenience and pri •ate injußice would atife, were fuch a power not to be granted. Lord CARLISLE explained. Lord GRENVILLE only agreed to the prefent motion, becaufe he conceived it did not preclude the queßion of, whether the Committee (bold make par tial reports ; or, whether the Houfe °zooid proceed to the confideration of thefe reports, before the inver tigation of the Committee was concluded The LORD CHANCELLOR expreffed his con currence in this lag opinion. The motion was then put and agreed to. • THE BOCK-YARDS. Earl FORTESCUE rote, in conformity to the no fce he had given, to bring forward a motion, which appeared to him of great importance, as it concern. ed the public fervice. It would be neceffary for him to detain their Lordfhips but a very Mort time, while he detailed the circumfiances that had given rife to it. In the fpring of 180 t, when the price of Corn was high, he was called upon, in his official ca pacity of Lord Lieutenant of the county of Devon, to adopt meafures, in confequence of open ads of violence having been committed. He found, how ever, that thole diQurbances arofe from other caufes than the high price of provifions. In the dock-yard at Plymouth they had become the more dangerous, as a communication was maintained with other parts through the means of delegates and that fort of ma chinery. He could nor fatisfy his mind without 'com municating to Government the refult of his own ob. fervation. A Noble Duke (Portland) who then fil led the office of Secretary of State, wiffied to avail himself of fuch local information as he (Lord For tcicuei could obtain. He would not trefpafs upon their Lordthips' time by very minute - details, hot woula fhorily Rate, that he alto received from the Nohlt Lord (St. Vincent) who at that time prefided at the Admiralty, information that three Commif iloners of the Navy would affociate with him for the purpole of enquiring into the confpiracy in the Dock yard. The refult of the moft impartial and patient enquiry they could make was, that from t to to iso men were difcharged from it. This Rep was followed by inflrudions being given to all the other dock yards, that none of the peifons thus dif miffed fbould be received into them. He had, how ever, lately heard, that many of there people had, notwithilanding, been again admitted into the King's service. He therefore telt it a public duty, in confe lisence of the flare he had had in the tranfaelion, to bring the fubjed before their Lordfhips, on account nr . •:)e great danger which molt attend fuch an ex- He mutt alfo add, that he felt fomething due .o tie late Board of Admiralty, and a Noble Earl, !3t. Vincent,) whom he hoped he might likewife call qiis friend. He thought it jug that they fhould not lay under the imputation of having wined out fuch a number of perfons, except from a rooted convic tion that it would be incompatible with the public texvice for them to aft otherwife. It was not his with to grtuad any proceedirg upon the motions he was ibotit to fabmit ; but he fhould leave it to their L.ordlhips to ad as they might think proper. The noble Earl concluded with mo v i ng , firß, for " A Lift of the Artticers difcharged by the Navy Board 'n tBot,in confequence of the Mutiny ;" Secondly, " A Lid of the Artificers fc difcharged, who had Ince been admitted into his Majelly's Dock yards." Vifu.unt MELVILLE begged to apologize to ‘;ir Lordfhips, for his abfcnce yefterday. He was ..;t aware of the motion, and w.u, in the country.— He deemed it unneceffary to enter into much detail onthis occafinn. TheNobleMoverhad,in thisinflance. only aped with the fame candour that bad always dif tinguifhed him. Nothing certainly could redound more to his credit than the produdion of the papers ; at the fame time, he thought the revival of the buti nefs might produce much mifchief, and could do no good. If it was intended that the prodaton of the papers called for, (hould lead to any further proceed. ing, he would will; to know what that proceeding was. Hemight then, probably,bringforwardother circum (lances. He could not content to the produCtion of the documents in the form they had been moved for. He would fuggea to the Noble Lord (Fond - cue), that it was not neceffary to obtain the name: of the perfons who had been difmilfed ; the *umber would be fuffi tient, without any fpecification. They were, perhaps, fcattered over the kingdom; at leaf he hoped they were fill in it, notwitbftanding what had been laid to their charge. He thought their names ought not to be handed about the Dock-yards. They might, perhaps, have been perfeEtly replar fence. He ob jelted to the term of Mutiny, which bad been applied, and did not think that fuch an epithet was bellowed at the time. The Delegates came to London, had conferences with the Navy Board, and returned back. Afterwards, when the ditturbances in Devonlhire broke our, both parties were connected together. He fhould offer no farther obfervations. The Earl of ST. VINCENT expreffed his opinion that the confiderations adverted to by the Noble Earl were of great importance, and the country was highly indebted to him for his conduCt upon the oc cation ; were it not for the temperate and firm tone of his meafores, the whole county of Devon would be, he believed, not only in a Rate of difturbance, but in atflual rebellion. At the fame time it was fair to fay, that the exertions of the Noble Earl were very well and effectually feconded by Lieutenant- General Simcoe and other officers. It was well known to the Noble Lord on the Woolfack, and to the Secretaries of State, that what be then anted was founded in truth. Earl FORTESCUE fhortly replied to Lord Mel vale, and was inclined to be fatisfied with having the Nursikr of the artificers. He fufpeaed that many had changed their names. Earl ST. VINCENT witted that the name: might be laid before the Houle. Vifcount MELVILLE then moved his amend ment, that the words" names of" &mid be omitted, and that there fhould be inferted, innead, " number of, with their defcriptions." The queltion was then carried. Lord CAMDEN laid on the table, by command of his Majefty, certain Papers relative to the Military Defence of the Country. On the motion of Lord DARNLEY, their Lord (hips were ordered to be fummoned for Tuefday next. Lord KING moved, that there be laid before the Houk copies of the depoUtions of certain State Pri foners in the Jail of Kilmainbam, before thofe of his Majefty's Judges of Ireland, who fat for that pur pofe. Lord HAWKESBURY doubted whether this mo tion could be agreed to with fafety to the public, and wilhed the Noble Lord to pollpone it until to-morrow. Lord KING obferved, that from what had already paired refpating motions which he had been requefl• ed to pollpone, he felt very little encouragement to I delay the prefent. Lord HAWKESBURY faid, that fence the Noble Lord perfifted in his motion, he would not propofe that it fhould be negatived, but would merely move as an amendment, that the Houfe do now adjourn. Lord GRENVILLE thought it incumbent on the Houle to agree to this motion, as its objed was to enquire into the fituation of perfons who were fuffer ing imprifonment in confequence of their Lordthips having agreed to furpend the Habeas Corpus AEI.- 1 Would their Lordthips fo far abandon all enquiry, as not to examine into the filtration of the public pri fons ? It fuch an examination was at all times their duty, it was particularly fo at the prefent moment, when there prifons were filled by the aft of their Lord fhips. The LORD CHANCELLOR obferved, that one of the reafons for which the Sufpenfion of the Habeas Corpus AR was to be regretted, was, that it fre quently rendered it improper to give information, which, under other circumßances, would be readily granted. He did not oppofe the motion from a with to rejea it, but merely to obtain time to learn what was his duty refpeEting•it. The Earl of DERBY expreffed his furprife, that the motion of his Noble Friend thould be refuted.— It was the duty of the perfons prefent to know, whe ther it was fit to grant the information required?—lt was a very extraordinary cafe indeed, if the Secre tar; of State could not fay at that moment, whether or not it was proper to agree to the motion. Lord HAWKESBURY again urged the neceffity of his taking time to confider of a motion of this na ture. Before he could agree to it, he would think it his duty to confult thofe who had the fulleft infor mation on the fubjeft, and to form an opinion how far it would be proper, fhould the motion be agreed, to accompany the paper, when produced, with other documents. The pradice of haftily acquiefcing in motions of this kind, had been often produftive of bad confecrences. Information had in this manner been frequently difclofed, which it would have been for the advantage of the public to have withheld ; it would therefore have been a fufficient reafon for ob jetting to the prefent motion that no previous no tice had been given by the Noble Lord, were it not necefrary that enquiry Ibould be made in order to af certain how far it wits proper to agree to it all. In the mean time as he did not pretend to declare that the motion was unfit to be adopted, he had not pro pofed that it thould be negatived, but merely that it (ho uld be delayed. The queftion was then put, and Lord Hawkelbnry's amendment, that the Houk do now adjourn, carried. Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, WEDNESDAY, MARCH 6. The Clerk of the Crown attended the Hou!c purfuant to an order of yetterday, and amended the return for Middldes, by rrafing therefrom the name of G. B. Mainwaring, EN. and infest ing that of Sir Francis Burdett, Bart. Sit Jo:i.s ANDERSON then moved, that C. B. Mainwaring, Efq. and the Freeholders of Mid Wm, hart liberty to petition the Houle within fourteen days, in queition of the election of Sir Francis Burdest.--Ordered. Sir Jon N ANDE soN brought up the rcport of the Conunlows`, to whom the periiion of the Matter and Wardens of the Company had been referred. It appeared from the report, that owing to the high price of grain, and the additional duty on fait, the bakers slime entitled to half an afrrse additional price; to twen ty puce additional ou the lack of Hour; and five-pence additional on the bufhel of fait.—Leave was given to bring in a BiU accord ingly. Sir C. PRICE Prefented a Petition from fcveral Merchants of London, praying a repeal of the fix per cent. duties paid by retail dealers in Ireland on Britiiti goods, and EaR India and C..lonial produce, imported into Ireland from Great Britain —Laid on the Table. Mr. RI X prefenteci an Account of the quantity of Salt exported from Great Britain. Mr. laysNo prefented Accounts of Exports and Imports. Mr. B t ea brought in Bowyer's Lottery Bill. On the motion for its being read, Mr. FutLEa objedted to it as eftablifhing a bad precedent. It was fupported by Mr. W. SMITH and Mr. BAR ER. Sir J. Algot luny( moved fer leave to bring in a Bill for amend ing the different Ads refpedling the making of Bread, in and with in ten miles of the Metropolis. Sir T. NtEEPOK,T gave notice, that he would, on Wtlnefday next, call the attention of the Houk to the Report made in the month of June laft,refpedling the Rate of the Poor of Ireland. On the motion of Mr. Forrza, the Houk refolved Welt into a Committee of Supply. He moved for various Sums for the fupport of different Cha rities in the Metropolis of Ireland, and for Government purpoks I to the latter of which fome objedtions were offered by Sir JAMES FITZOIRALD and Sir JOHN NEWPORT. All the Motions of Mr. Fosses paired the Committee, and the Report was ordered to be received to-morrow. The.Serni: ea having retuned the Chair, Mr. Wm ;sr ran anted fome quettions refpedting the number of Men raifed under the General Defonce Adi„ The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEVER anfwercd, that by the Returns it appeared 378 were raifed in Scotland, tsaB in Ireland, and 08( in England. Lord H. PRI 7 EY moved for copies of the dcpofitions of the State Prifon-rs in Kilnuinham goal, given on oatia, on 27th July hit, before three Juftices of the Court of King's Bench in Ireland, fitting in that prifon for that purpofe. The CHANCELLOR of the Exit u EVER could not content to Inch a motion without previous notice. Lord H. PETT; gave notice for Friday next. Sir JOHN NVA'PORT moved for an account of law espences in Ireland, incurred by Government fince illot, the period of the Union. Mt. SHUMAN'S MOTION FOR THI lIIPEIII. OF THI ADDITIONAL DEFENCE ACT. Mr. SHERIDAN rat, and (poke nearly to the following effai :—" I rife, Sir, in . p:irfuance of the notice I gave, to firbmit to.the Houle a motion for the 'repeal of a Bill, pat Ted lall Seffion of Parlia ment, intituled An Aet for the Additional De fence of the Kingdom, &c." I choofe to give the whole of the title of this Bill, rather than to be flu dious of brevity, though it might certainly give me an opportunity of complimenting.the feelings of the Right Hon. Gentleman, by defcribing it in its ufual appellation, as Mr. Pitt's Parith Defence Bill. When I gave my notice of this motion, I could not help obterving, that it appeared to excite fome furprife on the part of fome Gentlemen oppofite; a furprife not unmixed with marks of difapprobation of a nature not the molt orderly. I have been endeavouring to account for thefe fymptoms of furprize and difap probation. Did the Honourable Gentlemen con ceive that my motion arofe merely from the thought of the moment ; from being piqued at the Right Hon. Gentleman's filence ; from the lofs of a de bate on the occafion of the motion of my Right Ho nourable Fliend on this fide the Houfe ? Did they imagine that we confidered the fpeech of my Right Hon. Friend, a fpeech in which fo full, able, and luminous a view of the fubjeft was taken, was fo feebly fuftained, and fo ably and completely anfwer ed by a Right Hon. Friend of mine on the oppofite bench, that we withed for a little time to rally and get breath before we renewed the attack? Or did thofe Hon. Gentlemen conceive it to be extremely dike (ocelot to the Right Honourable the Chancellor of ,the Exchequer, who appeared to be fo reludtant and fo bafhfnl when an attempt was made to bring him to take a part in a difcuffion, that I Mould (hive to force him into another opportunity of a fimilar kind ? I do not doubt, Sir, that it muff have been molt un pleafant to thofe Gentlemen to have teen their Right Honourable Friend wincing and writhing under the &ill and force of the attack made upon him, and the mortification he mull have felt at the necetTary fee blends of the anfwer, that it was uncourteous and uncivil in us not to take thehint,antlto decline preffing him any further. But the duty every Member of this Houfe owes to his own fituation, and to the pub lic, ought at all times to overcome mere matters of perfonal feeling. It may, indeed, Sir, be L faid, by thofe who choofe to objett to my motion, that the military defence of this country, and all the mea fures relating to it, form a fubjeet on which there is fcarcely any thing new to fay. If this thould be Paid by any Hon. Member, I 111311 give him credit for the remark, for the whole fubjeEt was undoubtedly treat ed by my Right Hon. Friend in fo mafterly and per fpicuous a manner, that little indeed could be added to what he Rated on a former occafion to the Houfe: but if in the courfe of his fpeech, then, my Right Honourable Friend, in reviewing the general Rate of our military eliablifhwents, either for defence or offence, incidentally touched upon this Bill, and expo(ed its errors alid its diladvantages, and its total inefficiency, I am hill left at perfeet liberty to move fur the Repeal of that Bill, which was one, among many other of thofe meafures which he confidered an object of his difapprobation.— Having mentioned fome of thole caufes to which I might attribute the marks of furprife I have al ready fpoken of, there is but one more to which &all allude. As this Bill was introduced for the profefied purpofe of bringing forward the Ipirit and ftrength of the country at this urgent cries, it may be thought inconfiffent that I thould move t h e repeal of it, confidering the principle in which it is fuppofed to .have originated, or indeed of any AEI profelhing fuck an object. I know it has, of late years, been very fafhionabie, whenever you bad Aft, to fay you are afting you are holding out hopes and lurements, to the enemy ; and the ardour, and Rifling thi try. If I thought, in this 4114 now doing was likely, in the fm, any of us to flwink from the gt, tea in which we are engaged; it lion on this fubjeft could pofli liar or ignominy on the condi country, I am Pure I fhould be thiseHoufe to make the motion mit to you, How my arguntetr the Right Hon. Gentleman, I laft motion on the defence of the proper to preferve a refolute ar There was nothing Rated, as it nion, whatever the country at that point, which cal!ed upon : himfelf, and the talk of juftiff his Right Hon. Friend. Am Right Hon. Gentleman was pelf , the anfwer then made to the fper tion was prefaced ? There are Gentleman a perfon of a very fonable mind ; but if he was con , one of the &left men in the could have had lets reafon to be is true, heard, and, indeed, I that the anfwer was moft comp) was not thought fo by aoy Met and leap of all, I am lure, by m. himfelf (Mr. Canning), for wl lents I mutt fay I have a fil eftecm. I never law my Rigln ing more feverely than while hi anfwer. He feemed to be art and tide, clapping up a bit of fa puff of applaufe from behind h) pelted to take to his (weeps; noify, when he felt he could railing his voice jail in pri obliged to drop his arguments. in his whole fpeech, a fort of bi belonging to his fubjeft ; and no Member in the Houk felt I did : it was in fad a fort of There was plenty of noire, bu mil - chief: at kart to thew vii 7 fliould be annoyed, though it mage to thole whom it was Having endeavoured fo far the Houfe in the view I have to the lalt debate, ain Ito be confii in following up the motion of my by another motion to repeal which it is my intention chiefly the military part of it, and to prefs upon the Houle, of fliewir the meafure, and the obligate it altogether? If any perfons diverfion from any difference tradiition between me and m may Gde with me to-night, the difappointed. In truth, the di and thofe Gentlemen is by no been reprefented on this fubji from them I am not difpofed to I Wall ever be ready to Rai, frankly. I have thought, and highly of the iniiitution of the think that fyflem has been molt ble. I am convinced, from authoril for a moment difpute, that it has' fig effeet on the minds of our a• enemies. I believe that its fin ftrack a confiderable panic in( enemies. What the convi6tion of France, what the opinion of I cannot exaelly tell, but I al had fame effect upon him. lal thing more Rrongly impreffed I reign Affairs, Talleyrand, and deration in general in France, ti. ufurious, commercial, fpeculatip content, in a moment of danger mercial counters, and give their meat, but polkaed a fenfe of ardour of fpirit to bring them . and unfolicited their own perfonal fervice of their country. If yr to fight your battles but thofe enemy knows the whole of y can calculate accerdingly ; but. _ yond all calculation, of force regular nary Randard of hire, and force defence of the country by the habitants, by the noble fpirit, querable mind that burns with five country, and on the limits can lately count. While, Sir, ble inflitution of the Volunteer fyftem, _ alfo own, that I am not a friend to any very material diminution of the Militia force. lam lure that the principle of that force is a found one, and I know that it is popular among all ranks. It is one to which the opinions, and feelings, and habits of the people, have been long accultomed. Ido not fee that there is any very ferrous evil in having a force confißing of frme variety of defctiptions. I muff own that I diflike puttin* our trult altogether in an army railed on the principle of hire. No country of which biflory (peaks has ever maintained long her honour, her profperity, and her liberty by trolling merely to an army confining wholly of hired foldiers. —Still, however, I expel to be to ld, t h at b y b r i ng . ing forward loch a motion as this, I am degradin; the country. But I fay, lam only fbeaing the fat. lure of a boaßed experiment. 1 fay, it has completely failed. What was the promife of the Right Hon. Gentleman ? 4 What my predeceffors could not do I will perform. They were unworthy of being trolled. Give me your rife& confidence.' They mall be burled from their places as parlous of imbecility and • ..,• • • 'IP • . = +. LPRICE rou propnfe to repeal a ig unpatriotically ; that yd expealtinns, and al. . d that you are damping he fpirit of the coun- Itance, that what I am Imalicti degree, to lead great and arduous con- ; if I thought a dirndl of ihly call the flightelt tidal and fpirit of this me one of the lift men in on I am about to fub- nents will be treated by I know not. On the • the nation, he thought and dignified (Bence.— it appeated f in his opi- at large may think on a Mincr to vindicate iffeation devolved upon n I to fuppofe that the perfeelly contented with peech by which that mo- re Come who think that ry expefting and unrea- contented, he mna be he world, fence no one be fatisfied. I have, it I have teen it in print, nplete : but I believe it dauber of this Houk, my Right Hon. Friend whole charafter and ta- fincere admiration and ;ht Hon. Friend labour- he was delivering that iruggling againfl wind t • fail to catch every little I him ; fometimes com- ; even obliged to be Id not be convincing; proportion as he was ts. There was, in fait, • !Ailerons warmth not id I am fure, Sir, that - elt more for him than of catamaran fpeech.— but little enough of • who it was intended it was not without da- intended to fupport. far to Rand right with e taken of the Rate of onfidered prefumptoona my Right Hon. Friend, al the Defence AR, in fly to confine myfelf to to the obis& I with to wing the inefficiency of re necefGty of repealing ns expel any (port or • e of fentiment or con- other Gentlemen who tbey will, I believe, be difference between me m means fo wide as has bjea. When I differ to conceal my opinions; late them openly and and I fill think, moil t e Volunteer fyflem. I oft ufeful and admira- thorities which I cannot has had a very power- f avowed and inveterate fuccefs in this country into the minds of our S. an of the new Emperor of Bonaparte may be, am fore it mull have am convinced that no. his Minifter for Fe; nd people of any confi- le , than that this banking, acing nation, were not '1 :er, to 101 l on their corn- %eir money to Govern- ' of patriotifm, and an m out to offer at once • Tfonal exertions in the j i you have no other men ; r e whom you hire, the o l your firength, and he ,ut the difference is be- . regulated by the ordi- Irce called forth to the to patriotifm of its in- • rit, and by the uncon- . 1m th attachment to its na- its of which no invader r, I thus admire the no- er fyaem, I muil alfo to any very material nee. lam lure t h a t ; t is a found one, and I cr l ti g all ranks. It is one Eno, and habits of the ' aliomed. lAn nni 4