Star. — London, England, 1805-06-21 00:00:00

NUMBER 5 I 2 I ______ F.4RLIAMENTARr PROCEEDINGS.. HOZ. 3E OF COMMONS, THIISDAY, JUKE 10. A M.ll'..gc from the Lords Rated. that their Lordihips had agreed to the Salford Jollier., the Infh Fiedtion. the Lottery, the Spamfh Red Wine, the different Militia Regulations, the Corn. rnifrwr -rs of inquiry lout Public A bufes, the Sail Cloth, the River Avon New Bridge, and feveral other Bah, without any Amend sent. Mr. PAUL, with leave of the Hoofe. fixed his motion relative to the Nabob of 01...1e and Marquis Well-fley for Monday next. The Report of the Committee of Suppl) , was tir.niglir np, in which adesoL was voted for the maintenance -of his Majcfty'a Fora. in Africa; zegooL to the Board of Agriculture, add 'soot. to the Vett rivary College. The Refolutions were read a Sell and Retied time, and agreed to by the i ionic. .On the motion of Mr. S FORGES BOURRE, the Middlefez Pe n-Inn waiortlered to be taken into enefideration on Monday next. 'ibe Wrellen Manufadurcre P , natty Sufpenfron Ad, was after fomr eonverfation between Mr. Brooke, Admiral Berkeley,. and Mr. Peter Moore. read a feeond time, add ordered to be commit ted to-morrow. It was fisted by Admiral Berkeley, that the total ruin of the Cloth I rade was likely to follow if this Bill was puffed j Into a law ; exadly the fame deferipi ion of people in every cafe, ' and in Come inflames the very fame individuals, w,.e the protect:- tors as thole who had made a living fame time huee, by lodging informations againß the Clergy for Non -rtdadcoor. . Mr. BROOKE moved that the Bill be read a third time"thits day three months. Mr. MOORE Rated, that the Bill was brought into Parliament t the.requelt of 33 pet fens, while it was oppofod by upwards of s dN eca people By fufp. riding the penal laws, we wouldlanAion eonftant breaches of the law and protedt law-breaker+, to the ma terial in ; e'y of the great bulk of thole engaged in the Maple menu failure of the country. . . The liomarable Member who had moved the Am.utiment, however, agreed, wit'. leave of the Houle, to withdraw his. Amendment.for the prefect, and not to pref.% for a divifion in the than Rate of the Houle, as there was an important motion to be brought Lein. them. Mr. PETER MOO't E then prefented a Petition from a num.' her of Cloth Manufaelurer. in York. Wilta , Somerfet. and Glo m after, agairft the Sufixolion Bill.-Ordere d that the Petition do lie on the Table, and that the Petitioners be heard upon the Re• pan of the Bill Th e Ba"k Bill was reported, and ordered to be read a third time tomorrow Mr ROSe. brought up a Bill to p.rmit the exportation of Wool from the American colonies into Groat Britain. Read a firlt time, and ordered for a fecond reading to-morrow. • 'the Chancellor of the Tzehequees Indemnity Bill was read a third time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow. The Loyalty I oan Biß, and Ar-ry Commiffloners Amendment Bill were read a third time, and paffal. PROCEEDINGS AGAINST LoaD MELVILLi. Mr. BOND defired very mud to have an eeplaia tion from an Honourable Cattleman oppofite to him (Mr. Whitbriad), whether or not it was his wifttoor his underlianding that, in the criminal profecution 'MAIM, the above mentioned Nobleman, his Majesty's Aootney General was to proceed upon that part of the charge which related to the 40,0001. which had been advaneed to Boyd, Beniel.l, and Co. He would alto with that information fhould be given him as to what was intended about the cafe of Mr. Jellicoe, whether or not that point was to be included in the proceeding of lilt Attorney General ? Thefe points appeared tot tm to be In clear, that he trusted there would mat be more wanting than the prefent intima tion to dirdi the Attorney General as to the courfe which he Mould pwfue, unlefs a contrary mode Mould be recommended t , •,- any other Member of the Houle • • Mr. WHITBREAD declared that according to his ideas of the tubjeft, the circumflancelof Mr. Jet. lieoe's arrear not baying been fettled would form a material branch of the impeachment. This might mu, however, have made loch an imprelfion on the ki,,ufe as it had done On his mind. As to the legal powriety of loch a figs, or the probability there was of fucceeding, however, lie fhonld rather let that reit with the Att.,' or y The ATTORNEY GENERAL obferired that,' from the Contlitudonal jealtaufy which the Houle had always been acct! loured to eiercife in Inch cafes, he trolled that the opinion of the Houfe weed be mew. lennicited to hint, not only upon the topics to which the Honourable Gentle Man had added, hot alio that feveral other parts of the fobjett would have been elplilined to him, rather than to have left hies to fetal a ground of profecution from the whole body of the two repoits.. He would afk the Houfe whether, as the civil profecutioo was efireaed to be fufpended as fir u related to Lord Melville, hi Mould not alto tofpend any profecution on fimilar grounds againd Mr. Trotter ? There might, poffibly, - home formal difficulties be flirted In the cafe when he came to confider whether he Mould make Ore of Trotter as a witnefs againfl Lord Melville. There was another point upon shich be molt particularly required the aid and dilation of the Hock, that was, as to the propriety of producing in another place, evideace of what had been Paid in that Houle by the Noble Lori who was then the fubjett of con •Clfarifill. A prataiee had of late years grown in upon the Houfe, of of dering direr% profecutions by the Attorney General, iidlead of the old, and, in his opinion, leis objetli•sable Mode of proceeding, that of fending op an adds els to his*Majefly. If the pro. cceding had taken the turn to which he novr alluded, he lhould have had a communication with site Secre tary of State, who delivered him the orders from the Thr ne, and ft 'ln the expofitions which would con fequently take place, he would have force particular line of conduit t Stinted ont to him, and he would be moll likely in politffion of all the evidence which would he one 'Eery, or which could be procured towards the fubltantiation of the charge on which was to found a profecotion. He hoped that the . H o eft would ezercile its power to lancet (tech dif ficulties as be had fiated, and that they n ould ermdc feend to Le more icular in the ioartglions which they would be pleated to put ;n Lis liktndb. Mr. BOND laid, that as to Jellicoes affairs be I Mould not have the leaft helltation in fubroitting the Tuition totie Houle, ar.d had no doubt that it would be ordered to exciude that from the profecutien or dered by the Houle. Mr. WHITBREAD hoped that the Hour; be able to help the Honourable and Learned Gen tleman out of all the great difficulties of which he bad complained. For his own part, he did intene° that both the civil profecution against Lord Melville and that againft Mr. Trott-r lhnuld be forgended it the event of a crie.inal ptoJcutioa having been • . e - 4 • st. AL ) 4 3( • r "t • • • • I••• • EC* . • • . • • •• ••••—•4 t•••" . • . 11 1:0 jt• I 4:41E • .? , el . V 00. . % A• 7 .4 A MP . . [PRICk. SIX-PENCE. thoufand have been fur regiments at home. It ap peers too that the cafualties within that period, to the regiments at home, is within one hundred and feventy of the whole ['applies they have received by • ordinary recruiting. Arid if we reck.in, as doubtlefs we may, the cafualties of regiments on foreign ha. ' lions, at leaf as great as of thole at home, it gill follow that the army, on the liming it now hands, can with difticulov be kept by the recruits it receives. The reduCtit. a of the Militia, which makes no addi tion to the numbers for hone defence, is the only augmentation which the army of the country has ob tained in the courfe of the lag year, The whole of this fubjett will be fo much more ably hated by the Honourable Colonel (Craufurd) who has turned his attention to it, that I !hall abstain from any further remarks contenting myfelf with laying, that Iliac fags which are within the level of every man's ob fervation, are of themfelves fufficient to excite anxi ety in fo important a branch of our defence. I proceed now to that which is the grand bulwark of our fafety—the Navy ; and if, as we have Peen, there is no mkt* coegyxonlate ourfelves on the improve ment of our finances, or of our army, I fear th to the • !late of the navy will afford little more reafon for exultation. Left year at this time we had in commit lion of the line 88 (hips, and at the prefent moment I underhand the number of this daft in commiffion is only 91, being an inereafe of three lance left year.— There have been added (even frigates, sa floor, and 5o gun brigs. The number of Icemen voted lag year was 78,000, and the number aSually muftered welt above 87,000, being above snoco more than the vote. What the numbers now muttered is I cannot fay, but I apprehend from the difficulty of manning the this put in commitlion, of which I have heard something, I am fatisfied that the number now muf tete.' is not greater than that mattered this time twelve-month. The addition of brie of battle-(hips, and of fitgates, we fee, • very thrall, and tho' that of gun-brigs is larger in toe amount, I do not think it adds greatly to our fecnrity. I fear, indeed, that the Right Honourable Gentleman has been deceived as to the importance of thii dafs of smirch. Com pared with the immenle number of the enemy they are nothing; and if our defence were to'depend on them, we Ihould be wretched indeed. The improve- ment of the navy in that dais of (hips which molt conftttutoour chief defence againft every naval at tempt of the enemy is by no means latisfaCtory. It is admitted, indeed, by Many on the other fide, that our navy is not in the (late in which it ought to be but this they affert as a matter of charge agairaft a former Board of Admiralty. That charge, and the defence of the accufed party, firm kill ground of inquiry into the fair. For my own part, I profefs to be little verfed in the fubjeCt ; but as far as autho rity goes, and as far as my own invellipations can , form the ground of my judgment, lam decidedly of • opinion, that the fytlem of Lord St. Vincent was the • belt, and that if he had remained in eke . , be would have placed the navy of England in that Rate of fa- I perioritf and of power which all friends of the cowl. try mull defire to fee. This, however, I only Rate incidentally, and after the oppofite opinions fo Itrong ly advanced, as deferving of examination ; and with a view to our flotation, either for cat rying on the war with vigour or negotiating with effea, the navy de mands the molt ferious care and attention of the Houle. If from thefe topics we turn to our domellic fituation, then indeed there is room for a fatisfaaion unmingled. Never was there a period when the peo ple were more difpofed cheerfully to bear the burden impofed upon them by the circumstances of the t u nes. Never was there loyalty more aftive or more cordial. Never was the fpirit of the whole nation more deter mined to refill every attack on their independence, and to defend themfelves at every hazard. But, while we congratulate ourfelves on this pleating pic ture, we cannot help obferving, that the burdens of taxes prefs hard on many alalfes ; and we ought the more to feel that burdens borne whit fo much I)yalty, ffieuld be lightened, if potlible ; at leaf}, flown not be increafed without neceffity. If we look at Ireland, I hope that there too we !hall find ground of 'lois faftion, for in Ireland, partly through the conciliating adminiltration of Lorti . Hardwicke,coniiderable pro grefs has been made in compoling that country. More indeed has been dame by the example of the confequences of French aid to thole. who everlooked with any degree of hope to the effeets of French co. operation. If the date of Ireland be not yet fo fatisfac. tory as it might be, there is ;cilia to hope that the frith now ice the advantage of Farhat: connexion, and that they know that what they have to expe&t from the liberality and the policy ot Great Britain, would utterly be loft by French cootteeft ; that by conoihuting to the injury of their naturel friends, t by a currefpondence with France, they would only be adding themfelves to the lilt of Saves whom France has !educed under her dominion, either in an abje& dependence, or totally (tripped of their name and exittence as a nation. Such reflations and belt ex. emotes, mutt have wrought a great rhange even itt the fentiments of the difeffeetei. But hill there is room for farther improvement. There is room for that entire cordiality between the two countries, or ; rather between the different parts of the Empire, that inftead of being our weaknels, Ireland should be one of the chief instrument;. of our gt camel's ;—• when,intlead of abforbing a large portion of our mili tary force to preferve trantriiiity, Use might contri bute fo large a portion to the adtive military ftrength of the hate. To me it teems, that while any ob. (tack remains to the entire latisfaftion of the Catho lic Body, in regard to the objeft, for whirl, they pe titioned the Legiftature, the progrefs to pyre& tran quillity and to complete co optration melt he far ihort of what it might be. Yet, both by Legillative meafureo and by thole of.Adminiiti atitro touch may be done. lam fatisfied that it is die wi:1) of Leta Hardwicke to do every thing that depends iivn him, but I fear that on the other tide of the Channel, as here, they labour under the diitraaina of a divided , Government. Lord Hardwicke can never give full, FRIDAY, JUNE 21, iBo.s. termined on. He would go (lA. farther ;he would even bring in a bill of indemnity for Mr. Trotter, if it was neceffary, to render him a• competent witnefa againti Lord Melville. The other points he had no dlobt would be fully cleared up when they came re gularly before the Houfe. • .. . The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER declared that in his opinion, it was•nttetly impolfible for his Right Honourable and Learned Friend (the Attorney General) to be able to grottnd a profecti. tints on what had lonfely palled in that Houle. He would require not only to be negatively kith-need, but he would fiod it sequifite to have it po6tively and accurately pt;inted out to him upon what part of the. debate he was to found his proreeutinn, and- by what precife orders his conduet in that proceeding was to be regulated. After the Houle had once de-, tided that a cilmin..l profecutitindhould he inflituted, he (horrid not wit% to peels an'y other Gentleman to the dedsration of a contrary fentiment ; but on his own part, he mull confers that he was Advetre both 'to the mearitte of impeachment and to that of the proreeution by the Attorney General. But if either lluft.be adopted, if it were abrolirtely unavoidable to accede to one of the two propolitions, he &mid think the form of an impeachment the more preferable.— He was c mfidem that a confiderable majority of ' other Members who voted for the criminal profeca. tion, were neverthelefs fittingly inclined in their own minds towards the tneafurc of impeachment. The more he confide'red this circitinßance, the more he was dilpofed to think that it was A hefty decilion— the more firong.y he felt the neceffity of a revifion of I the vote of that night, the more clearly be faw that it was due to a rerpen for the other Houle of Perlis. ment—the more clearly lie raw the neteliity of fuck a ilep in order to do fiihitential jultice to the party.... The difficulties which had been mentioned by his Honourable and Learned Friend, in addition to all thofe other confederations, were dill further and molt convincing proof, to hi mind of the neceffity of con. fidering delibcrztely and fairly of what was due to the Conflitution, what in jultice to an individual of high rank and exalted station, in proceeding upon a cafe' of such high importance as that which was now alluded to. • . Mr. PDX raid that, for one, he could not acqui efce in the difficultiei that had been urged by the Attorney Gene' al. The Houle had frequently or dered profecutionrof the fame nature, and there was always a refponfibilitir Telling on the Attorney Ge neral. He could not, therefore, think why the re. fpontibility Ih:odd be taken from him in the prefent inaance With regard ro the mode of proceeding, h e was fi r impeachment, and remained Itill of the fame opinion ; but he could never allow that the ferife of the Houle was not fairly taken. The moti , n of his Honourable Friend was refuted, and another fub ftituted, which Wah carried, contrary to the expetta tions of the Right Hon. Gentleman and his Friends, the aim of which was to make the proceedings of the Houle look ridiculoirs. He was now informed,' that many who voted against both queftions would have voted with them for the impeachntent, if they could have forefeen what had happened. He was happy to think fo ; and if the matter thatild be brought under confederation again, that would be a proper tine to difcufs it. He protefied againft the difficulties that had been flayed to-day ; for if they were admitted, older :Hoag of the fame nature might be brought forward on any other occafion, and form a bad precedent. He withed the tioufe to pre&rve its right ter both Erodes of proceeding. Mr. BOND then gave notice of a motion fora negative inftruition to the Attorney General as to the Proceedings refpetling that part of Lord Melville's cafe which relates to the arrears of Mr. Jellicoe. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was decidedly of opinion, that the queltion thould Mend to a revifion of the fubjeft, there was an evident mifunderfianding at the time of the former vote, there not having been above 5o in the whole who were for the junket', i.,n by the Attorney Gene. rat, independelatof thole who voted for the Impeach: Meat: . Mr. SHERIDAN atferved, that a Secretary State might be himfelf the pertim who was to be pm -.1 (muted. Wendt! the Right Honourable and Learned Gentleman in that cafe apply to him to confult as to the molt effectual mode •)f proceeding againit him fell? But the Right Honourable Gentleman oppofite (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had fuppofed that there was not above Sc. Members who were attually and pofirirely inclined to lupport the Vote for a Cri minal Profecurion. It was known that there were about 470 Members in the Houle at that time, and if that were corrett. the filial' minority of 5o car ried the vote of that night againft a majrnityconfifting of po. If the Right Honourable Member (the Chan cellor of the Exchequer) found that he was not ftrong enough, or that he was not able to perfuade the Hoofe from his known experience it might hare been expetted that he would have been able to explain things more fatisfaaothy at that time. Mr. CANNING obferved, that it was worthy of c oof i deration that the Houle thould examine into the (paths of--:Whetber they would order any perfon not to be tried• by his Petra ? Mr. HARRISON declared, that it was the fief time that he had ever heard of an Attorney General, a principal Crown Lawyer, and one of the chief fer rants of the public in the law department, Acing in fit rations from a let of perfons who did not prattice the law, or profefs a knowledge 'of its forms, what c.rinrfe he was to purfue in a profeeution at law It was his duty to find out where he would have the belt ground. When loch difficulties were ttat ted, he really thought it appeared to be nothing. but a plan to de tulle the public and to evade the jti dice of the country. The ATTORNEY GENERAL laid, that the in. .entions of the Houle, he believed, were ufually ex ireffed on filch occafions, although the law ofncer would exercife his judgment as to points which re quired a knowledge of the law. Mr. BANLES thought the mode which had been adopted was the heft; but at the fame time he Nras of opinion, that thofe who fupported the original mo tion, if they had to revile that vote, and failed of car. rying it, would vote again tor the criminal profecut ion. Mr. ROSE believed that no profecution fimilar to the prefent one was recorded on the Journals of the Houle, or that was of fo complicated a nature.—The notice was 63ted for Monday. STATE uI THE NATION. Mr. GREY role, and ('poke in fubflance as fol lows—Mr. Speaker, I rife for the purpofe of calling the attention of the Houle to the prefent molt critt cal State of the country, and in doing fo I am not aware that any other apology will be neneffary, than what the fulsjed itfelf will • afford. Whether we look to our foreign or our clOrneßic Rate, whether we fix our view .on our colonial ellahlithments, on the Situation of our commerce, our finances, of our army or navy, whether we look at the Rate the war, and thethance of our Rate, even in the event of peace, we fhall find that on every one of thefe points, form in& in the aggregate the actual flare of the empire at large, there is matter of Serie= confederation, that upon the whole there is room for much anxiety, and that to carry us Safe through the prefent crifis, will demand all's:te wifdum and energy we poffefs. embrace all this variety of fubjeas in a tingle difeaf lion,.would exceed any ahikies, however great; and for me to offer even wllight (ketch of them, might feem prefumption , were.it not that the Rite of affairs itfelf fo imperioufly calls for invefligation, and the importance of the interetts at Rake, renders it the duty of a Member of Parliament to bring the Situa tion of affairs before the public. It is now two years Since the commencement of war, a war in which we are Still engaged, undertaken after a Short, uncertain interval of unavailing peace. It naturally fuggefts itfelf, them, to inquire, wha: were the -grounds on which the war was commenced? what the objets to which it was direeted ? what the profpeas of fuccefs with which it is attended ? and what the heft policy in the condlid of it ? The firft objet which prefents itfelf is the Rate of our finance.- a fubjea of itfelf Sufficient for mote than one day's dircuffinn ; upon which, however, I Shall enter into no detail, particu larly as of late it has been the practice at the end of the Seffion. to Ity before the Hoare a Statement of the public finances, as they (Land at the time, and I hope an able.and Honourable Friend , cf mine, who has already diftinguiffied 161111%1f in this bufinefs, will this year favour the Houle with a Similar exertion of his indultry. At the beginning of the war we were affured, that the war could be carried on for Several years, without any addition to the capital of the debt, by burrowing no more than was extinguilhed by the operation of the Sinking Fond. I at the time doubt ed the folidity of this promile, and we now are cer tain that it was fallacious. For three years of the war forty millions have already been borrowed, and an addition of at lealt thirty millions made to the capital of uur debt, beyond what the Sinking Fund has redeemed. • Such is the effea of the war, as to the Capital of our debt already, but when we contem plate the magnitude of our expenditure, when we confider that salt year our expence amounted to 7o millions, and that this year., in all probability, it wilt be more, it is impollible not to fee that our finan ces, though undoubtedly they are Rill great, and with good management, adequate to the greateß ob jeas, mug deferee the Serious attention of every Bri tifh flatefman. They are in Such a Situation as to render either prodigal admitaration, or wanton ex pence, in the highest degree criminal ; and in a com• pariton of our profpeas they Strongly remind us that war ought not to be purfued, if peace on fair and honourable terms can be obtained. But it is not the amount of uur extraordinary war expenditure that mug increafe. Even were war to ceafe immediately,' our permanent expenditme mull be greatly encreaf ed. I Shall not, I believe, be contradided, when I fay chat the whole amount of the interefi, &c. of our debt, will be at leaft 3o millions, and looking at the State of Europe after a peace, it cannot be imagined that we could fit down with a Peace Eflablithment of lel: than forty millions a year. At a time then, when the amount of the taxes is fo great, and when for the firß time there appears reafon to conclude from their produce, that they have been carried as far as they can go, it is the more neceffary to enquire whether war be indifpenfible ? But leaving this lubjeC4 I Shall barely allude to the State of the army, becaufe at the beginning of the Sefton that fubjea was fo completely difcuffed by my Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Windham) and a notice of a notion has beets given by an Hon. Colonel (Craufurd) fo well qualified t s do it Janice. This much, however, I may ()Verve generally, that the neceflity of an improvement of our army was Salt year univerfally admitted. It was particularly in filled Upon by Mr. Pitt, in the Shape of a charge againft others, that it cannot now be forgotten or difputed. Yet it has been (hewn that any improve. merit that may have-taken place is far Shot t both of what the nation had a right to expea, and of what its Situation demanded. The Supplementary Mili tia has been reduced, and this meantre, as far as it goes. I do not difapprove ; but let it he remembered, that if it gives us any advantage in point of dilcipline and quality, it adds nothing to our number for home defence. But allowing as much for this as can be claimed, yet when we compare our whole military force with that of the enemy, with its increasing means, with its uninterrupted exertions, with the menaced attacks upon us, withdrawing our naval protection to foreign Rations, we than be forced to conclude that we have not kept pace with the progrefs of the foe; that in comparifon with our danger boor means of Security have not advanced, and that in rea lity the country is now lef: upon an equality with the preparations, and with the means of F. aace, than it was lalt year when the Right Hon. Gentleman fo Strongly err Aigned the imbecility and incapacity of his predeceffots in office. It appears from a paper I have before me, that Since January 1805, there have been railed four thoufand two or three hundred men by ordinary recruiting. Of thefe above two