Star. — London, England, 1815-02-22 00:00:00

• Station, but surely neither the Noble Lord nor !AV House could be prepared to enter on the examination .of papers so diffuse and voluminous as thew which the Noble Earl had named. He should, thowever,, offer a f.Av words in answer to that Noble 'Earl. It was urgtki. that the British shipsweraiiiferior.to those ; of America. That was a Charge almost pa vague for notice But the Anieriain vessels were supplied with picked OEM That was true. for the whole ma- 1 rine population of the American States . vtaii.devoted to that purpose, and it would be strange if they did not take advantage of such a circumstance; whereas, the British seamen were 5,1 dispersed as to be answer able to the various calls which diSPersed thenn over the whole globe, and jrit . „ few, comparatively, had been acting nn the ,tertcatt ibis* Ole British ships, tliougt one all Manned withpioled sa;liars, were yet so manned as best to answer the enlarged 6bjects fur which they were . employed. At to tlik ihips called American frig ates, it .wa's . :Mere iiicli:ninte fbr a few ships of. force enough to be ranlet of the line. But because America had three or four 'ships of that description, did the Noble LOrd infer , that no British ships of inferior strength Should venture on the American coasts ? ft was surely enough to have a few applied to that purpose. But as to the con. tempt expressed by the Noble Lord for that species of force called gun-brigs, whatever the superior know ledge of the Noble Lord might be, gun-brigs had been especially required by Sir A. Cochrane. As to the construction of ships, it was a subject 6f 'bible difficulty to decide on sometimes. It Was tree, in deed, that there was much room ftir ittiprotiiment in the_. construction of ships ;.and the Commissioners appointed by the Admiralty to inq bire. flub that subject, bad made a report, which eras frinaliately icted upon. . l'heother parts of the Noble , speech were answered by Lord blei.vitxr, and the motions, with the exception of one (relative to the instructions to COniminderi, Which was withdrawn), being put, were severally agreed tp. BRITISH TROOPS IN FOREIGN PAY. Lord GRENVILLE, in calling the attention of their Lordships to the subject of the Order. of the PAY,. should cOOfige. hiMpelf to. two . Papers. . He should Move, first, for an Account of the *number of 'oops en 'ployed 6tl the continent receiving British Ply; arid nett, for a tiatethent of. the '44ff ypu. the firit. it trust fie in.thek LOrd- Zilfs' lecOlQuen, as it was dAply impressed upon Iris - aqd Num tbafpf. the Public, that when the War was terifiinatird antler circumstances 'so i t 'minus and exhilirating to all Europe, it was naturally expected that the biridetiso so .b4vity Aill'uteri, yet so fly bitinelsy:the Penfe of tlkrt tosntry, would base in a time. In s tead of that rw.elve months and more had,ielapsed without „even any apparent rogrcss. towards Abet kv.ent. lie was aware that Ail present was not the proper time Tor entering at largo op .thc discussion of those caplet,. which em ll-aced two . points of the utmost, importance. the #uatroial 3041 political interests of the country. His j,tard,ship thqt tor* a comprehensive. view of the sub ject/in its .variotis relations, and concluded with aloe. 14.4 th4.1104411t 1 P0 4 0 already named. , I:lier..titri of. E having. no objection jtkproduce the.,Papers>called for by the. Noble Baron,' ihui /411 e, to my on the occasion. Whenever the Noe st..ould come-fishes the subject would be pro.' .perly .befote the House, he should be ready to itis.• Ofy, ip stettry instance, the conduct of his Majesty's, G9,Crl3lllollt. • • • • •• • • _The blaiquis of LANSDOWNE approved of the! xr &liners, of the Noble Earl to produce the Papers required, by. Ms Noble Friend, and trusted that the vtould ago° arrive when that Noble Earl would have An opportunity .of fulfilling his engagemetn,l to .make out the justification of his • Majesty's Mi., asters, against , the charges and objections which nt present appeared to bear so hard against their! conduct. lie ardently hoped that the Noble Earl: would be able to thew that the armies on. the Con.. sineut in British pay, had been devoted to British objects. .and upon principles and in a manner. mot cal culated to involve this ,country in contests, for which; wither her interest, her character, nor her means were inked.. . . . The motions thenleing severally put, were agreed to, and the House adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. - . • PRnPEiTY TAX. • Petitions against the Prciperty-Tsix were presented film Hereford, the Ward of tiihligine War. wickshire Taunton', the Borough of Carmarthen, Connty Of Forfar', and County of Istorfolk, and or dered to lie on the table. PAVING OF LONDON. Mr. PUGII brought up the Returns of Paving from St. Andrew's, Holborn, and'from St. George the Mat tyr. • Mr. TAYLOR said, that he rose on a subject kw itreat•importance to the inhabitants of the mettopo4 lis. There bidAseen much said on the bid state tif! Poring (.4 the bletrdpalis, yet th'e • grievance still! existed. .He • coniplained particularly of the Wes, deft ky the Water Cronipanles in the streets, which; were productive Of much mischief. lfot two days ago a Lad 's Carriiye. ha 4 'been avertinited by intl.. of these holes, and she was nearly beii% most seri.' ouslr injured: This was in evil which calledlor the attention of the 14ouse. Sol ite said, that akhough. this was a grievilice, there was no need of Pirlia-: snentafy inteifererice in it. But as the evil existed to so great an extent, without Fiarliainentary interfe.. 3 env.. he thought the application cif parliamentary interference was :necessary; and he should 'proceed) to try tor. redress , though 'he were to be put into' their hol es by the water companies, Orinto.their fur. paces litthe iron coriipanies. The c ity (f London 1V,43 certainly "ite;rfpted liy . cfraiter, 'from- paving; but lit cinninpn Taw every street irriinsWerable tOT any accident flit happened pit filick f tgli the bad state of its 'Pavement. The ,pater companies were certainty cieWalalife by action to Mend or repair any hreAches x or holes thdyleft in - a l . street., He men. tinned the Cat iir•aiinal bridge in whiph . the 'Pre. triteteri:thriuktit I,* wile norgattle fo repair iodine Ilijuiies ihtil,,.it had Afeied. ' But when ihe ease , ;wax 'auk 4 into' Clinif, Are .Tuifice said,. that tis the 14i i ite •it . a 7ig i!'bith-ivh;; 0 . 4 were certainty v ip%ed to . ,'"itin *Fit!. Forineilt ? the - iireeo of 4 nits ' oitiiiiiiizinink to the hideout, and indeed to *eiStile coital:elk of Tordiift --llnt . now. the CAA is pyrite reversed. The streets of Paris and Edinb uv g .are inibe iaro4oce 1 i' die bi,tter pvi th9.tife it.;to llistricts, iite milom may h*' election of tho: -- - . ballot, but by opt_ oath to 'Medd to the duties of their odic& They should gibe notice to the Clerk of the Company by illioMile streets were injured, and if the streets were not repaired wi€hin one month after such notice was given, they sboUld Jill empowereitto initiose a fine on the Comiany, .and also On the Para. The Water Coinpanies should be,paibiied From taking up the pavements at all times, at their own optical l y and from laying Jan pipes, but at certain times of the year; nor were they to lay dais what Wile called a main, but during its Months of the year. They should lay down no pipes lint iron, as gime pipes were continually bursting. This he could think no hardship on them, as the durability of the iron pipes would more than compensate for, the greater expence of them. He would be far from doing any thin t to put an end to the rivalship 6e tween Conlin as, and he did not think the measure he proposed would have the least tendency of that nature. He n isv gave merely a general outline of his measure. Whether hr was right or wrong in his ideas on the subject, the House would be able to judge when the measure would be brought forward. If he were found to be wrong, the House would,i of , course, not agree to his measure ; but he had con. versed with many sensible men on the subject, and was strengthened by them in his View of 'thine. While he was on his legs he could not help adverting pat ticularly to the state of the pavement from Scot landorard to Parfiament-itreet, and under the Trea- sixty. He . cptild not indeed much compliment the Chancellor of the Exchequer on the goodness of his , ways in this respect ; but he hoped he would mend them. He knew that the waycof the Treasury were often very rugged ; but the sweets generally com pensated for the difficulties of the journey. If any Gentleman could point out any measure better than his on the subject. he sliould have his most cordial concurrence. Si quid noviiti redius lair, candidur int tierti. He concluded by moving for leave to bring in a Bill to create a Board for the better paving of the metropolis. Mr. CALVERT said, that the Honourable Gen ! tleipan had mentioned the streets of Paris and Edin burgh as remarkable for the goodness of their pave ment; but he thought the streets of Southwark could not well be complained of in this respect. He there fctre wished to ask the Honourable Gentleman whether he meant to include the streets of South wark in his Bill ? . Mr. TAYLOR. said, that if the streets of South wark were so very well paved, there WAS of Course no necessity of incliding Omni in the Bill. He must -mention, in addition to what he had already said on this subject, that the present expence .f paving the Metropolis atnounted altogether to 415.000 a-year, while. that of bis plan would be but £2,300. Leave was granted to bring in the Bill. FOREION CORN. A petition was presented froth the western district of Naddington, against die importation of foreign corn, and ordered to lie on the talAe. !bleb A thong hilutoitroitt to conekial. occasion was,volitntary attendance I for in would draw On himeeif,much anger superiors in office for giving inforniation in -multi, not he at all blamed, if Iris giving /ere compulsory. This was a question common sense, 11 it was necessary to give 3issioners such powers, as the Bill required, ..otain information, how could the House refuse them f He, tor his part, thought the powers were indispensably necessary, and he would, therefore, vote for.the Bill. Sir JOHN SIMEON lose in defence of the Mas. ten in Chancery, and asked the lion. &wallet, did he know one instance in their taking unjust fees ? He said no false delicacy should prevent him from doing them that justice to which they were so eminently en titletl. He would declare on his honour, must so lemnly, that he never knew any one instance in which the Master in Chancery was complained to of unjust fees, where immediate redress was not granted. But though lie saw no necessity whatever fur the Bill, still it should meet no impediment from him, as it would only tend to relieve from aspersion characters, which he knew, deserved no suspicion. •Mr. HORNELL said, that the }l9use having re solved that enquiry was necessary, would act very inconsistently, if it relused to grant the powers neces sary to make the enquiry of any use►. The persons chosen for the Commission were the heads of the Office into the fees of which the enquiry was to take place, and certainly this could not diminish the ini. preuinn on the public mind that the enquiry was meant to be converted into a mere job, to provide salaries for the Commissioners. The ATTORNEY GENERAL opposed the mo tion, on the grounds ti the Bill's being perfectly un necessary. Was it to be thought that persons of such respectability would forfeit their characters by not proceeding in the best way for the object of the enquiry ? He had already said that persons refusing to attend, and to give evidence, were punishable by an action for misdemeanor. This was a full answer to any necessity for the Bill. It was a principle of legislation not to legislate unnecessarily, and this Bill would be a most unnecessary piece of legislation ; for there was no need of any further powers than the Commission already, to give perfect vitality and effect to the enquiry. He, therefore, conch:led in the mo tion for the previous question. Mr. ABRCROMBIE thought the powers of the Bill indispensably necessary, as the inquiry would be worse than useless without them, for it would be only putting the country to a great expense without being productive of the least benefit. The Commissioners should be armed with summary powers to punish in case of refusal to attend, if it were intended to give any effect to the measure. The action for fnisdentea. flour was so slow in its operation, that it was of little or no use. He therefore thought the BM indispen sably necessary. The Right Honourable Gentleman urged many arguments to shear that the Commission had not the necessary powers, and added, that it their , WAS to be no method of compelling wit!.esses to i ,ive evidence, the business of the Commission would pro bably be IS rather than tight years before it was completed. So far ilain their being any harm in giv ing lull powers to the Commissioners. ht insisted that this was the only means of preventing abuses, and effecting the eu.ts of justice. Mr. STEPHEN, though he had voted against the question when it was first brolly t ilt turward , did so because he thought that no case had been made out ; but he had since seen mason to alter his opinion, and should now vote for it, because he thought souse good might arise from. it. Much desultory argument, and several explanations ensued, between Str JOHN SIMEON, LORI MusoN, Mr. BATIWILST, Mr. Route Suusen, and the Cu AN• cau.ou of the Excueouett, in the course of which the last-mentioned Gentleman contended, that as the matter at pres lit stood, the Commissioners had the power to compel people to come before them, though not in so solemn a manner as the Gentlemen opposite would wish ; and that if the motion were carried, the prerogative given by the Crown would merge in the powers granted by the House of Com mons; and if the confidence that ought to be placed in the Commissioners were diminished, their feelings would be hurt, and the public business injured. The House then divided—For the motion 76 Against it 88. TRANSFER OF GENOA. Mr. LA MBTON said 1w rose to move for certain Papers relative to the late transactions at Genoa. He did not intend to apologise for bringing forward a subject which had.already attracted the attention of the House. When the good faith, the justice and honour ut the country stood impeached, and the ac cusations against Ministers so prominent and strong, were met with taciturnity, or pleas of ignorance, all who did not wish to partake of the blame which at tached to them, had a sufficient excuse for veiseve rance. Ile wished to know how Ministers would shelter thtinselves under these serious accusations ? Were not the acts of the Secretary for Foreign Af fairs the acts of the whole Government ? Or was it for the Noble Lord alone to decide on the most im portant affairs, without their advice or authority ? Their silence on this subject would not much longer avail them ; for he trusted the important day would shortly come when the most disgraceful acts of Mi nisters would be exposed, and no longer be shielded by darkness.—(Near).--if in private lite any charge was made against an individual, of the niost oppro brious nature ; it he was accused of being engap,ed in the most infamous transactions—crimes involving his honour, integrity, and all that can implicate his character ; and if, instead of answering; such (barges, he were perpetually to evade the attack, and say • 6 the time is not yet come for me to defend myself," what Would be the feelings of every honourable mind ? Would he not be deservedly treated with the utmost scorn and contempt? Similar to such conduct is that of the Minister s. Charges are al leged againit them of the most disgraceful and dis honourable nature transactions which are not merely in contemplation, but which have actually been accomplished, but against which they refuse to defend themselves. Had not the people of Genoa, 'While relying on the good faith of Great Britain for protection, been tran►ferred over to an imbecile and petty Sovereign, like so many droves of cattle ? AO, what talismanip lyord was that which was brought forward to excuse such a flagrant and infa mous transaction ? It was urged that the alteration would be found necessary to regulate the balai.c. , of power. But the true balance of power wa., to be found in the steady affections of the !K e g , : to their Government : such were the only mem., of restoring the power in question. Genoa, hoe.. ever, had seen her liberty annihilated ; and to re spoliation had England ever been a party so detente. ble and infamous as that of this territory. In April, 1814, these people were told in the most poiratd terms, by a British Officers that their best security was in resistance to lot eign oppression, and that by such resistance their liberties would be rest .red with more resplendency than ever. L-,rd W. lientinek, in the same I'rnclamation, makes an appeal to their national feelings, and bids them come forward and assert the rights of a free Was there a ,ii,ad so apathetic as not to exult in the blessed %roil: of Ts, storing to their. rights and independence a I.t.tte a e d oppressed people ? But, in eight mantis a f tcra . art k. when these people had been thus tantalised and ee. luded, a mandate arrives from the degraded and de. testable Congress of Vienna, annulling at once the designs in their form., and conaig, mg the whole country at once over to the Most Wreak aiid iniffecile Government in existence. Where was Lord W. Bentieck at this time ? lie was very properly .absent from this sceneof atrocity; for if he had been pre sent, lie ( Mr. Lambton) was convinced that lie never would have suffered his name wise couples with so infamous a transaction. But a British officer, Gene . ral Dalrymple, informed the people of Genoa t' !t they were delivered up to Sardini', and that he 1...1 it in command from the -Prince Regent Of Eogl net to inform them of what had taken place in their re gard. Now lie would ask, Who. is responsible for this 'communication ? lt the Pt ince Regent is not respon sible, the House niu.t conic to h.s Ministers; if they do not avow the advice they have given, then Gene. ral Dalrymple is answeiable for the proceeding : if they do avow it, let them come forward Aid a nswer for their conduct. They stand suspected, in the eyes of the nation, of having prostituted the good faith and honour of England, and they pretend to btlieve that they stand acquitted. Ile was confident that there was not a ratan in the country who would not deeply regret that the hitherto unsullisd character of this country shaulel be so disgraced and tarnished, country which had so lately sunfmoiled the Nations of the Continent to resist oppression, and whose grated exertions had, under Puovioesta:, been so emieently successful. That this odious transaction migia be thoroughly investigated, be should move that :et humble Address be presented to the Plinice kie:ei.t. praying that he would be graci.!usly pleased ;o order to be laid before the Howe, copies of ail the pap eis relative to proceedings of the British Governinen: with regard to Genoa. (These were separately tnnved for ; they were copies of the Proclamations of Lord W. Bentinck and G...neral Dalrymple; of the ininuc. tions given to his Lordship as t h grounds for his conduct, and of the instructiens to the Italian pris , •- neri of war, at the time of ;h e ir liberation.) On this last topic, the Honourable tl;ntlenian observed, that his object in moving for copies nt such instruction.. WAS to slicer, that this GOVerilm:nt not only gintran. teed the independence of Genoa against the French, but also against any other Power whatever. Ott the qtiestion beie.g put, a loud e ill was made fo r th e ch a o ce ifor of . the Exchequer, loom several voices on the Opposition bider .The . Right Hon. Gentleman, however, did not rise. Colonel WOOD said, that being fleetly connected with the Nubie Lord whose conduct has been so se verely aniniedverted upon, perhaps the House wou/st permit him to ask their indulgence for nuking a law obeavatious. He would veutere . to suggest to Oa Honourable Member who had made the motion, th..t on mature consideration. he would see the unfairness and even the injustice of prematutely discussiue a subject of so serious a nature in the ebsence of au in dividual who could not possibly be hew to answer for 'Mused. Bet the whole event must slimily come under discussion ; and be tetitild an:it:ewe, tht when his N.ible Friead returned, led wonld meet the char es, and repel them with as mech credit to bites self as he had acquired by all the numerous and iin. pet tant trensactions iu which he head been engaged. It had always been his preetice to mcct his accitset; face to lace, and uniformly to answer them, w4lit ut subterfuge or evasion ; and he was sure dis Noble Friend would not depart from his invariable line of conduct. But in the mean time he would put it to the Honourable Gentlemen to consider, whether this question ought to be deemed tine of an isolated er single nature, or whether the measure was uncoil. netted with the other great events which had en gaged the attention of the Congress? Nomitlistar.d. ing the epithets which heti been heaped upon 11; . . great assmibly, when it was considered what 'Lie had to do, he thought that the House and the cow.- try must not expect too much hum i: ! (Loa a::d cootinued shouts of hear, hear, hear, from the Onotitits side.) • The object of the Congress was the pecifica tion of the world ; and though ;his trust be admitted to be beyond the reach of all human agency what. ever, every man must be hilly aware that the jarriee and contending interests which cl oil) at the Congress, have created infinite difficulty in tee match al their operations. Lut their thject is to ;;ive a respite et the world from the scenes of blond and horror whir which it had so long been afflicted: this he r; A 6 firmly convinced would he accomplished ; hot mote ought not to be expected than (fluid hr performed by mete (Hear, hear.) He was rime the Noble Lord would not shrink from the respensibiley arteehed to hii"'n* duct, however gym it might be ; but all l''' 3 "" ought to he considered us the acts of the t;esen ment ; yt-t - a certain latitude ne discretion tette hAri? been entrl:s4cd to him. He had, however, tei feeia tion in acknowledging, that the Neble L 7.: leee'. l considered bit appointment to be Mee ee :cost 'el':l iespenibility- He was in the house et the to tte' Lord's lather in Irelend, *hen a note was riKei" .l ruin Wm, which stated that his friends **veld 1). surprised to hear that he bed been erpoiceel t" (" 1 the Conexess, and that he vier. on the point of sediog he the Cu ntinent : that he was Wily aware of U awful respnesifelity et the task imrcsed en him, het that he should not shrink front his duty. F 1: (ell^m 4 !'feud) rejoic e d as muc h as t h H M e en. en eicr, that the day would soim arrive when he wuule be here to defend himself, and he did sincerely hope and belicv that the whole vt his conduct, whee " b: i: came I examined, would prove to have been die: cted as mite . for the interests o f the c o untry as i t would be sae factory to . that country cited to the House. lit' 11,0 . , are went ed te those ; .1' ~ • ,ac : misk e n. He '''.7...iis :ttigif-tfn slis o v+ Nl' Xir iltAiii* s i tO create a B---. !son, whc r vi 14 of the t o tk Ofigndon, an d to* • frorn i his super s ) Lthri,4e thi pbeitolv into four or li , snel) is cue, co id to `ateerifise fUsspectors, each. • . iforniation w• have a italdry of • aloof !; 11114 : * a Mere ,ceran those inspectors should not be by secret the Commissio by open vote, and they alai be bound by to obtain infoi 6 , 0.2 -• • 111 1 N EW POST-OFFICE. Sir JAMES SHA W moved for leave to bring in a Bill tor enlarging the %Vest side of Cheapside, op posite St. Martin's•lr-Grand, for the erection ut new Post-Office thereon. Mr. GRENFELL said, that k had been stated that the expense of the new Post Office would be upwards of reBoo,ooo,rind that the present state of the country would not justify such an expenditure. He believed the expense mentioned, was overstated ; but even if it was not, the expense of rebuilding the nresent Post Office, and the compensations to be made for the houses and ground to be added would be little less. The Hon Gentleman then entered into a comparative statement of the expenses of both, and he was of opinion that when the superior conveniences of the "new were considered, the proposition now made was entitled to every attention. Leave was then given to bring in the Bill. FEES 01 COURTS 01 JUSTICE IN IRELAND. Sir JOHN NEWPO KT rose to move for leave to bring in a Bill to impower the Commissioners appoin ted to examine into the Fees of the Courts of Justice in Ireland, to compel the attendance of witnesses to 'be examined an that inquiry. He contended that such powers were necessary, particularly on a case like the present. It had been stated, on a former night, that the officers of the Courts could not refuse to give evidence before the Commissioners, yet it was manifest that without • such a Bill as he proposed, these was no compulsion on them to attend, while no 'Oerions were more likely to wish for concealment than those whoie conduct was to be examined into.-- Besides, others must be examined, as ex parte state. ments would not be fully to be relied on. It had been the constant practice to arm Committees with powers to campelattendance, and he could. see no reason why those powers should not be necessary on this as Well as on any other occasion. As one in stance, he would _allude to the Carnatic Coutimis , Amu' were,Who rmed with such powers. The de tails of his Bill would be liable to future discussions; but to the principle of it, he did not see how there could be anybhjection. He, therefore, would move for leave to bring in the Bill. Mr. BATHURST said, that the instance alluded to was very widely different from the present case ; for the Carnatic question was one of abuses in gene ral. This we's not an enquiry into general abuses, Wince into fees, actually. taken, about which there .could he no iecret. The Right Hon. Baronet did alit state any abuses in any department but in the Mastees.OtEce, and thre77 "tile Master of that Office would ..410t red Use. fOr'hot ci vi l* character's sake, to give evidence nn every th ing on which be should he examined by the Commissioners. The Honourable Bacqteetiee t s ,to• atticlF The entire body of ;he Ma. kr*l4, l 14's ` 4f Unwilling titkivnpvidence ; why pae, 4tepel Ahem to give it t On the vhole, be sow no necessity whatever for the Bill, and he would ) therefori. move theipreviona luestion. .01te r .Vill i l,j4ssl Start . said, th'sit ie only qtees bon was whether those pourer were ;fleo;isuri. ? But if .the _Howe wished to obtain information, it, should remove all inducements to concealment as w' k