Star. — London, England, 1828-07-05 00:00:00

s rnces t.f the Doke of,Wellingten an.] Lord Boresfo:d no? estatdish the fact that the duties 4sl the otiice r oght he con•oli.lated wit . ) some other office:—(ileac) `roe other reitictions recommended by the Ftiance C o mmittee commeaCed from the 1-t of July, so that ...bile the Government determined to continue the offs. e of Lieutenant General, because all the evidence provrd that that office was essential to the service, they had shown the utmost leadiness to comply with the recom mendation of the Committee, where it was borne out by the evidence. Theßoacd efOrdna,nce had all flu ough acted in a manner quite consistent with the praises that the Finance Committee had been pleased tq bestow on them. And never in tne instance did they continue an office that had ceased to be necessary. The salary of Lieut. General was now reduced from 1,5001. to 1,2001. The . recommendaticn of the Committee as to other re- ductions had been assented to, and a sum of 2,0931. `avow of the general efficismcy and economy of the 0 dinnice establishment, and all Vie witnesses who had hero examined on the subject -werearf opinion. that• the office ought to be maintainrd.-The eviderice itstabli.heit,• too, the tact. that there were useful duties attached to ifte office, which required it should not be abrilishel He knew that opposition -to any recommendation of -the Comrniitee - wood meet with popularity in that House, but he was or t inclined to gain that popularity any more . than Oat which .was talse.obtaities/ thkt of doors,. by pretending to vote raitle — reiluctiori - Orl72ootirygi for the relief of the people—(Hear, hear). To do so was a complete farce—(Hear). If the office was not necessary, he said, 6 * Let it be abolished but let them not, for the appearance of effecting a saving, injure an ;mportant branch of the military service —(Hear). Mr. BARING said, that seeing the deficiency there had been in the revenue, to the ;mount of borne bun• dreds of thousands, the Committee was called upon' to I examine seriously and severely into what means there I were of effecting a reduction. And the reductions, such as they were, must be defended before the House, whenever the Government should think proper to refuse to adopt any Of the Committee's recommendations. He thought in the Committee up stairs, and he still thought; that this was an office that might be got. rid ot.— The discuision he had heard that night. particularly what was urged in opposition to the abolishment of the office, had confirmed him in his opinion. Tire Ar tillery Department was now said to be in an excellent condition, and it was urged as a reason for retaining this office; but he begged to call to the recollection of H•ii nourable Members, that, when the department was in quite an opposite state from-the present, this same of of Lieutenant-General of the Ordn ince caked. But . the best evidence of its u elessn-ss at present was the continual absence of the p'rsons who filled it. This fact was worth ten thousan 1 volumes or opinions of official person., .however respectable they .might be—(Hear. hear). With respect to that duty, which used to be that which principally engaged the Lieutenant-General, viz the inspection r f the corps at Woolwich, he thought it •might be transfeir d to the 'Office of the Inspector-Ge neral. He should supp lit his Right Honourable Friend in taking the sense of the Huse upon the question. Mr.CALCRA FT would not vote 1-r the continuance of the office if he did not think its duties necessarY;or if he thought the state of the fin inces such as could not allow its exisience; t.ut lie did not consider the finances to be inn c 'uditiun that required .the proposed reduc tion. Those Members of tie House, why, like himself, .were not members of the Finance C )mmittee, and wl o were therefore ignorant of tits Committe.'s motives for recommending the abolition of the office of Lieutenant General of the Ordnance, should decide un the evi dence given in the Report. On this ground he appealed to the House whether they could dott4t the necessity of upholding the office in quest on ? Was there any authority against the cot Otwanceof the office? • It was said Lord Moira declared r ir, the Master-General were present * the ..ffi:e of Lieutenant-General wOulcf unne cessary ; but against that there waithe authority-Uf L.ird Chathani. who • said the office was necessary. When he was at the other side of the House, he pressed the reduction cf the .Ordnance Department as strongly as his Honourable Friends tiere were disposed to : press it—(aters and laughter). True, the Cominissioners had been taken from different salaries; and even while the Committee were sitting. the Masten-General of the Ordnance had effected reductions to the amount of 9,9D0/. When before the Committee he was a'ked by the Hon. Member for Aberdeen what reductions it would be possible to make ? The best answer to that rriestion would be, that already had every reductiori ciii: , istetit with the good of the service been made by the Noble Lord at the head of the Board. He meant merely to claim for the Board of Ordnance that merit which they so justly deserved, and for the Duke of Wellington that sincerity in giving his evidence, which every Member will readily concede. For himself, were he not ashamed to speak, he world simply say, That Le could not so far demean himself as to state, that that was esseniisil to the service which he did nor really, think to be so. The Right Hun. Secretary croncluded by Moving that a sum, not exceeding 24,93 U. be granted to his Majesty, for defraying the expenses of the salaries of Master-General, and of the other officers of the Board of Ordnance, for the year 1828, a sum of 2.5.0001. having already been voted on account, for that purpose. Sir H. PARNELL said, that notWithstinding what had fallen from the Honourable and Gallant Member, he should feel it his duty to propose such an amend ment as would carry into effect the ohjecrof the Finance Committee. Tbat recommendation was not made with out the.greatest consideration ; they had examined the subject in every possible way. Indeed, they must have had strong reasons for the conclusion to which they had come, since it was opposed to the evidence of the Duke of-Wellington. The Committee had, however, after looking attentively through all the evidence, decided by :the largest majority that had appeared upon any question wnich came under their consideration, that the office-of Lieutenant-General of the Ordnance was un necessary. This officer warin fact little more than the doable of thC Mister General; and if the latter were to perform tbr duties of his office. the other, eirjoi a perfect sinecure. But if a person were required, to do any duties now supposed to be.done by the Lieut.. General, might not one of the Generals attached to the establishment at Woolwich lie found for that•porpose? The Honourable Member, after-stating that the military branch of the Ordnance, as well as that of the'Engineers employed about building, we') too great, proposed at an amendment, that instead of 24,8841, the vote be reduced to 21,335 i. The Amend' Intern —ens . pat, • ' .. bf Military'lngait, had ihonght it Might be dispensed Sir E. OWEN supported the continuance of the of with, but, at thesame time, they recommended an ar fice of Lieutenant General, and entered into . 8 stale s rangement.. and a Board , over . which the Lieritenaut ment. of the laborious duties to be perforrneikle ane General should be placed. The Duke of Wellington. Ordnance department.- He himself was obliged to work some years ago, had reduced the Ordnance Depart at home for three hours every evening, Sundays notet- went to the loweit scale possible. Lnrd Mulgratie. cepted. He thought it highly - necessary that • some ton , introduted economy Into the departimuf.• As' officer of high rank should attend, as in this case, to to the assertion that the absence of the Lientenant arrange and communicate. between the Master Geotral General proved the office was urn ecessary, he could, and the Board. if this were not done the business of pryve that•the Master General and LieutementGeoeral., the ; Board would get•into arrear, as it had done tofore. of the Ordnance were more urliequently. absent I one notwithstanding the exeitions of a late Master GeniraL t h e i r d ut i es than the r fficers of any other establishinent,: General GASCOYNE said, that the recotameitdmina. The ahsenie of the Lieutenant•Genelatwat belt an ei-' of the Report, in !reality, was to abelialt tee Lieutenant- cepiion. yet Hon; 'Gentlemen' sought- to -make if 'tae. General, and to appoint * Geneial is) Isis stead. • The rule. it wonid be absurd and.rnischievcets tciahrolske, office had been filled by thernirt eminent military men , nec es sar y o ffi ce on ' acc ount of the - occasional absence of and he believed it b ad temaieed unquestioned for 200 an officer, Wolf the officer should Ontieueubsent beyiind or 300 years. He, was ske l ost disposed_ to nOd, Loo m finit a reasonable time, the inconvenience would boromedied with-the proposed reduction of Ahc 1 41 1 74 the . k.- by appointing another to e office, as tea s intended at tenant-General to 1,2001. ftom 45601.. As. te the , rastr the case of Sir:H.Clinton. A s , sto the- arguipenc, that Metes generally, particularly •tbe Civil-Depat Meat, be an officer of the litie ought. notto.be appoi tied,oieka he at s Sutprisedso much had beep done. .' • , situation, his experience in the tfidtience .)ffi . teeliti.. • ..Sri H. PARNELL explained,. :Hi bad flair wool- vino/tibias tha; an ()Vet' of the liiieeltieliniite'fite.tio' mended the-appointment of any General insinia.of the fill k tbdu an officer of a. tillerf. LAO Cleatharn - was Lieetenant-General—(Hear)t 'He meant to -contend, of the same opinion. On the whole, he should. take* tfigk if a militaft Officer, were requited at the Hoard, a eiiitlineele the-Repoiceilsin i srflierpininti of the COM- General could be had witNiut. th e contianaisca_of Olio siker-. . Hew as sure there was enhugh •of ..- hi:Sine's.; in office. • . the Ordnance Department - for the Master General, the Mr. BA NKES maintained, that the office was useless; Lieutenant General, and every other Officet.in the. Es it might be advantageously . abolished, and that feet tablistiment, however active and knell gent they might was /moved by the O ffi cers having been repeatedlY b e . Th ere was one :educt i on he re gr etted'; namely;' absent. He was in reality a depute to the Mister Ge- that ef the salary of clerk of the Ordnance from 2,0004. neral: With great defe. ence to the Duke of Wellington's to 1 , 2004 H e ha d himsef proposed an increase of the . evidence, he thought the reasons adduced by his Grace salary in 1824, and succeeded, with the urianimous.con , did not make out that the office could not be abolished. sent of Parliament. He was sure the House would not; He thought that the office might be abolished without. agree to diminish the efficiency of any public office. He; detsirneot to the public service. . should not vote for the continuance of the office in ques- Sir G. CLERK contended that the office could not lion if he did not think that the abolition of. it would be abolished ; he could personally bear testimony . to the diminish the efficiency of the Ordnance Office. inconveniences that had resulted from the temporary Sir J. GRA HA M said, nothing could be more natutel absence of the Lieutenant General. When such absence than thelyinpathY expressed by the Payinaster of the was experienced, there was the greatest inconvenience Forces with the Lieutenant General of the Ordnance. oaring to there being no military Officer present. To But he thought the Right H. nourable Gentleman disc destroy this office would. be to aboli•-h what constituted played the zeal of a new convert, which outran his dis the greatest merit of the Ordnance Board. cretion. It could tot he said that the office was indis Mr. MABERLY contended, at great length, that the pensably necessary; a.d that being the case, the present recommendation of the Finance Committee, for the re- condition of our finances tequired that every - saving duction of the office in question, ought to be attended should be made. He was sorry to hear a Right Ho-' to. They would, had the facts been so strong, equally noisrable Gedtleman call even such a saving a farce. have recommended the abolition of the office of Master- Mr. Canning's claim to the gratitude of the country General. rested more on cal ing on the Representatives of the Sir J. SEBRIGHTsaid, that he did not think himself people to aid the Government in the great work of re justified in voting for the abolition of the office—(Hear). trenchnsent, than on any other of his acts ; and it to ll the artillery were once suffered to fall into decay it night they threw the recommendation of the Finance would take years to restore it—(Hear). It was at present Coinmittee overboard, they would forfeit their title to in a high state of perfection, and had excited the admi- the confidence of the country(Loud crie- of hear). ration not only of the military men of this, country, but Mr. W. HORTON, in explanation, said, that in the of those of the Continent. He called upon those then use of the word farce, he meant that the abolition of a who did not know more of the subject than himself, not necessary office, on account of the sum saved, was a to meddle with that which was now so effective—(Hear.) mere f arce . . . . Mr. BERNAL said, he was well aware of the present Sir G. MURRAY said, that considering the length to' excellent condition of the utillery and engineer depart.. 'which the debate bad - been carried, he should to t have 'rent of our army ; but it was one thing to admit that, intruded upon the attention of the House had h- not for rid anoGer to say that the maintenance of the office of some short time been connected with the. department in Lieutenant General of the Ordnance was necessary to question. He agreed in the general principle laid down seep them in that state. When the office was held by by the Hon. Member for persetshire, as to the objects 'Use Duke of Marlborough, Schomberg, and the other to Which the-Flnance CoMmittee had directed their at great m en w h o s e n ames had been mentioned, it - was tentioo. but he differed from the Hon. Gentleman in natosiqns that our ,aataletY was in the worst possible thinking that:they had made a wise selection for re state. Besides, if the blaster General discharged hi. duction in fixing upon the office of Lieutenant Genet al chines properly, there could be no occasion for this of the-Ordnance. He entirely agreed with the Honour.. gleFiely office. .„ . , . litile s Member for Abingdon , when he said, that the • Colosset. WOOD supported the nati of the •Offile, ilevarliWorthe . offic e should not at all prevent the and said, that it was impossible for the senior officers of 'Cointkiittre from recommending its reductio ', if such the artillery establishment at.Wookset - ''ch to niscliaige4 a *visors appeared beneficial. He could not, how.. duties, from ,ther advanced age, seldom being less th;so totar,.ccinciir .with -Hoemerable Gentlemen in think* sese n i.y whenllieireached:Lbciai k Orati,erarppeett. ing.that the' duties t of the chief • .officers of the Olt lilt. W. H 01 1 .1021 said that the Ceiaatittesepeildlir Ana' iiid"doobtinoitiareased. They had been , ill-. 1 having been , - • -4: • , creased, and greatly ir.creasel In saying that he spoke from *aperient:4.v and ups r his own know ledge.; and he would •.also state., without any fear 6f contiadicticift; • that ihe various : alterations Which .kadbeen:madetad proved highly bene fi cial cache coma 'try. • If :the -prinAiple of the Honunr.ible gernbet for Oorsetsfilre was acted upon, "nanacly,:that the Govern ment shotild be debarred from calling for the services of military uteri already in office, wit nut those officers being dspriied of the office they held when calesl ipon, its operation would be highly injuriou,•so. ch.• public service. For instance, would the saving which would have been made in Vie cave of Lord Corn , . wallis, a man whose great reputation was still increased by every new inquiry. have c4nspensated for' the loss of his services in Ireland ? With respect t his Gallant Friend who now filled the office of Lieutenant General of the Ordnance, he was selected to command the expedition to Portugal in consequence of his cape-, rience and his well-deserved reputation. If. unfortu nately, this country had been .plunged into a war. doubtless another Officer would have superseded Sir H. Clinton in the Ordnance. But if, on the arrival of the troops in Portugal, it had been found that they were not wanted, it would hive been very hard upon his Gallant Friend if, on his return after a short 'absence he had found himself excluded from an office which be had only left in consequence of his Sovereign and his country having required his services in a more impirt iant station. The absence of Sir H. Clinton had beet , round most inconvenient, but another Officer had • not been appointed. in consequence of the just claims oi Sir IL Clinton to consideration. He had a very sincere, respect fOr cite pith,* l ehotc.eis and abilities of the. Gentlemen conspo4pg the Finance Cominiqee. but on i ebat oecaso a he did out fcelbilaself justAed on sup : porting their proposition—(Hear). Mi. STANLEY said, .the argument of the Right Hon arable and Gallant General went to show, that it • was desirable to have a blaster-General and Lieutenant- General, who might be sent away on other service— (He.tr). 'Tile Honourable Gentleman here read several extracts from the Report of, the Finance Committee, to show that the office could be dispensed with; and said, though this was not the most glaring case that could be produced, yet he thought it his. duty to vote for the abolitiouof the office--(Hear, hear). ' Lnrd-MORPETH said, that he should support the reduction of the office, in consequence of the very fre quent absence of the officer from his indispensable du ties. He *mild 'further.. say, that as a Committee of that ; House had -been appointed to inquire into the pro pyiettptof abolishing, that House would have little cre dit with, the country-if thii recommendatietv was not acceded to. . . The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, having, been a member of the Finance Committee, and having . "eapiessed an opinion there, that the reduction, was ima politic, he thouglit it right to avow that opinion in the face of the House and the country. The question was one which ought not to be decided on grounds . of per,', sOnal conduct or feeling. If the individual now at the head of the Ordnance had.. done that whiCh was' deserving of censure, it.wate open to Parliament to' in stitute an inquiry into that conduct, and Parliament might punish if 'they; thought proper—{Cheering). But let not any, aspersidne • üb!ch . mat. be cast upon that Noble Ida .00 , Made. the. •reaaots for n'ullifying the exertions of that department by depriving it of . the -servieet - of ats-o*cer who- added most materially to its efficienry, — , Ha agreed with the Honourable bicrldber, folPallington, that the qsiestien'wis a sint, ple one.. Was-it necessary to the business of the' department or notilhat . - theta should be such an 11:A•• eta' This wal . tfleiteeitiodiiirli stated, and he thought theloss to• khe service in the. inefficiency of the , department would bagleaterthan.any gain to the State from the savinrof tha•-talary.• Free years ago it had be it detetinsinqbY tlik•Hottsir.thattlfia office was ne eessaryo.and he wai . efiatlifistejebai 4;fiiiiige had since taken place .vallich should indica thertl:l4 alter 4144 .opinion. Mr. Canning, too, had voted 'in favour:44 the letsterlie - of she of4e. The Lietteeeot Geueial had ;certaialy. b:edabaeit Upon lap . his abseriee atifirays.beeik severely felt by ate Abet officers of .... et dapfa-cotenti ., anit he argue _ dohat this , private him loptiriued o bave.ratatially bem , use calklitikota - pee t iteei)fitt theie.:wei id theslis-. : grivairea.4-.1401‘ Allifetbel live too motif ;pressed: :-Ttreweluitiv.;ol4sfirsvbe..sp indiference and inglt„Et:4 ilifiddiiiooalsditie9 Ind - secondly, of those Ot4itr4o RiOhtilisaburahte t4enilemaketinelu :14 saying, ri:it be. would ataiesrxhisseduction,Jseeati4in it he ihoughi - be would practising 7 tibad economy —atternp ing to save a few ' pup tid5.!.041. - rtnining:o4 risk I: • closing . t floc' sand s. '•14t , :51001. 1 4.- t0.. - Re amidst cries of question,. t-! erstreardir,attention•Of the. Bow to an item cf the ii,fear to an Dfficertwhe 'ch4tnitl. one: Moth. part i( !duties of the labanrs. During the time the Committee had been car eying on their inquiries into the Or.•!nance Dpartmenr, the laht•urs of the. G ivernment had cur twig the 1.:46- ;111.4m A ill:riM9,oooi. w..n 4 - 1 , savrlss4stay-4:brss..eaer- s tions,and there w ;tin (lest. e tit lidosh. t' c • econ . my. With tesp c l 0 t O dnarice De r , Poem, G i over nmeut - did not con oder fne ati,eo . c ref t*.e• Gellojat at pr. of of .11,e useles t es. 4 the rifli They. kook the opinions .ftwo 'men w on-e -natoe, w. 'e of. .orate weight—the DA. rti W Ilingron mid his Itigh! . .. Hon. Ftiend. yvey stated that the ctlice • f L-etieoan•- • General was essential t 6 the appointment of t ie B lard. It was their opinion that it v as iiiief.trant with reqiect • to the italitary part of the establi,,ornelit Titer autho. • rity was clearly with his own ovii.ion, a •i • e was per fectly ready ro Act on the opinion of iFe Duke of We!.:- Jington and hit Right H. , notirable Frie -I. When 1 - 1:: . did so, he consulted the true dignity o t .e s rvice and prom‘ited the intissst - of at countr y. Mr. 1341.01.1G . H AK said this was 1 quest ran of a very interesting character. heconside.e.l it of sufficient impo mice to call upon him t' support the Reoort of the Commi!lee of r , lial.Ce. It was t e fi• s in.tancc in which they were cal;ed upon to sown. t a C turn tt e which had excited g , rat expec ati Th • t Co .• ntitiee recommended ihe liti•iii of a , i i Elite on 'he ground . aosence of the individual mho fi i d that like. The Right Hon. Gentleman said absence did not lead Abolition, but he considere I thes e was ..as occa ion for an offic.• in which the person holding it could he absent a year :Lid three quarters. H 000 t give his vote for the teductioii. Mr. Secret iry Pen explained.--.-The Committee then divided, 'For the Resolutlots• • . .• 204 For the •Aotendment . 93 • Majority f it the. Resolution . ----109 Qn nor return to the Gaiter y,we found Mr.limille asking whether after twelve o'clock. they should proceed with the Estimates? He should move that the Chairman do report progress, and ask lease to sit again. • Sir H. HA RDINGE was not aware that there were any,other votes which would call for h objection, and therefore-he hoped the Hon. Member would suffer the votes to proceed. Mr. M. A. TAY LOR was in favour of adjournment.. . * - . Mr. MA HER LY had not yet received an answer to the question . • on the abolition of an office, in which it could not be proved that in seven years the occupant had d*e one day's duty. Hestipporred the adjournment,• the more particularly ail the tuestion •of the Canadas, which involved an adrount of 204!),0001 of motley; will implicated in the votes. , Sir H. 'II ARDINGE said this'(the Canada'iote) , ivaie rtipplit. mtatary grant, and this 'year only 100,0001. • was intetid4 tam moved for these Colonies—(Heir, heir). Mr. HUMEstdl objected to tbeAterseas of hour, add th'ette • fore he should press the motion. Sir H. II A RDLNOE said, if the Hon; Meunier ( Nfr: truMe) . would riot out any , of ,the [tenet which *ere objechionabla,l6'him he (Sir H. Hardinge) would postpone The gallery was then cleared fur a division. ' • ." For the Adjournment .•. it • Against it 172 •• " . Majority . ' . Olt .our re-admission •Into the gallery, we round Sir' Al'elyirr . putting the question on' the original Resolution *lien the gAvi was again cleared tin a division-- For the Resolution 163 • . ;.';• 1 Against it Majority . " After a few words from Mr. Baciudeix, * Getterildiet - ihrlt. and Mr. 'Hum; the CHAlRMANryported, .progresi, and . . '',leave to 'sit again on Monday nest. • . The Regent's Park Impr ovement Bill was ard'i . thintiVafe-; and passed. • Lord LOWTHER brought eP tde t irftke eOnitttOtei the Charing Cross Itnproventents BIllis.:&-Otileeed'ttitte. 7 eritruss4. 1 1.. Mr. 0. CAVE moved that Report Of* OoMmittee Corporate Fonda Bills he brought up;, • . " . • For the motion . . .• • .Against it Majority , .• . Mr. P. THOAISON moved, as an Arne ndmnt.that the VIVIOi be further considered this day s three, months. .• • • Lord. LOWTHER resisted the bill . ai an' ettertatichnit u t private property. Mr. 0. CAVE only desired to Initiate Mil disengaged.' Debite eventually adjourned till Tuesday next:* The New South Wales Bill was. read i third' time, anttifsiVdF" The Customs Duties Bill went through . a ifoonnitt4.-4tckirti On Monday. The Longitude Acts Repeal Bill was read a thirttlm i i,andlialita, The remaining Orders of the Day: baying ltegiciAiosed of s the . House adjourned at Hocr-rase Two o'Cusca. . .*; : • .1 . -.TI4E7.CL4RE kr I , : aCmivill i .as we stated yestriciayc has b4n, tamed fey Vire. .61r. -14tsges aid,- having poi len.it ,sort icitit7ninilbet . d.rfopectkb)e volio tdleitsbre WA light .to am Ultimate-. legaL return,4 l etlig4 °M Y test, !. This tient map be consi'd a tod,-among.ibi l *i it e .estrierdin'ary (bet ever-occurred:-eater ;It•lbteie,vf iropeler -rdyteient idea. Thl• CiatticilicV;,pr •:•enrittst county 'hitio in tied,* Tißin v de4o4tl voted. f0ribv,i;.44:,,b44.41414:a . Xleciiher of the Administrated; must hoe a csetylia.-411 ewe of influence **it 4is*Cisileakses oa eßretrirt. deli been.s Olson the CatkOrte...:c4 . ll m . set -,...',.,.berriff, ltis, they bave,in pure isanteilOess . c ai and from having of efteisot-isieutisjo4e Legislature, returned as their itipiesant aerie Man who cannot bf possikliq I ekitiO thO! th!sjigasist Porliamentaty. service, f.n,.,olherorflf thky 6 i r -, a iWb; ... ' ~ r _ _ _ =.y4 ! c . t , Leutenant4eneral of the Ordnance:. par was .Man 'who is incompetent tcfact until t'kelaw shay, rave the Architects L. the Barrack D. par merit, a person been changed, while thei•throW liwar:true bt -tbsVosest WM.& name was :scurceli known to any of the Mem. isetnl instruments . for "act dinplidq;r•:itie-diAted•eff bieri:of ibit.Depaitment. teration.: H _ S , r HARDINGE.stated; that he ha d CF i given an Sir EDWARD' Baum put the Right osintTabley..essprTfts . explicit opinion Opus the subject before the.CoMailittee. herald In nonsinodoe.:Str Amount kirsc -• • • aii.m.o.seenoited thenommatton," , —During the : time of Lott _M 11 . 4 ....... angrove the. Architect . n 01141•31 : Dl proposed Mr.)(lCuppe 111. i s i*repre had 'been found: ' necessary,, but that it was the inten sanative,. . . • - • tion if, the Govermien e t' to abolish the office as soon- -Mr. FtreceltAt.p. presented hints ell.to . riankoiof as proper arrangements Could be made. The Architect the elect us. iam here (said he) to :answer awy gees had still 'many duties to pei fo: m, and he had given full tion that may be put'to me.by- any - of my: constiruegii ; information,respecting -them to the Finance Committee. indeed, I may say I stand ari'aigned here, c t :llvl4ed Final 14114 9R: 1.4_182,2* ppitter.dle Lieutenant-General . without a trial, and threatened with. your .dispkasuse .of the Ordnance nor the Master-Giii.eral of the Of d without being allowed to enter into. my vindieationw I trance were absent. Sir H. Clititon was taken away to do not object, far from it, to any Elector denratillettnf command the army upon ao expedition. With regard the person whOnshe returns to Porliaiasint 'a it‘ifq-Ic to absence, he could, nit.admit that absence ought to count of th e manner he conducted himself as.lii:iegre vacate an office. At thetitne of the expedition to Cu- sentative. From this scrutiny I shall nor shrink.;. but penhagen, Who was SeireiarY,firi Ireland ? The Duke before I proceed, pet mit me far . call your •Ottention to r&Wellingtpn., Who was in tpat office at the battle of the situation.iii which this county ii.placed by thf dovel Vpneira? The Duke of Wellington: The ab ence of mode which has been adopted by the Leariled an individual in the service of his country was no for. Gentleman and his friends. I hope I may be permit teituie cf office. He should contend that the absence ted to say, without unkindness to those opposed to me, :.t the Marquis Cornwallis was no forfeiture of .the that the system oil which they prhceed is one frauht office ot..%laster-General. - •Ls with danger to this hitheit r united county. 'flier seek S•r M. W. RIDLEY said, the question applied only. / .1-0 dissever the ties which ought to bind the tenant to to the necessity of maintaining the 7 /flee of Lieutenant- his landlord, as his natural protector ; and according General of the Ordnance in rime orpeac . e.. It visas the as they shall succeed in tlis Unfortunate carter, iitust opinion of the.Froaace Committee that the office might - the success of • their candidate depend. It has been be abolished in time of peach at least his opinion coin- said, and perhaps believed, that 1 was• not luanest in ,the cid-d with the Comirrictee's(Much coughing). support whiCh I gave - to the C.t ramie QtleAson..l deny Mr. Secretary PBELsaid; it wasodmitted by none the imputation, and I repel the charge with geom . .' I more frequently than" his . Honourable Colleague, that deny it, Sir,- as a man of .bonour and a Gentleman, the recommendation of the Finance Committee had pria well known among you, and I claim credit in - iiktue ceeded from a desire to promote the public service. An of my character for .that* denial. Another charge Hon. Member liad also admitted that he found on the against me is, that have been called to the Councils part of hii Slalestri Gtii-ernment a disposition to give of my' Sovereign—an d' . may it ple :se GA). that saNle exiilatiatiori in the best manner.. They certainly had in that situation it marbe.my good forture Own all the subj-ets under the consideration of ths4l my RomonCethoHclountryasen honest and hOttauraible COMmittre serious att!ntion, but they could not consent service. But.be the result of this day whet mislay,-an !to make a change in an important department by the opportunity:will be aff o rded me o f asking ti Cie eth4sre adoption of as reco mmen d at io n which must bepainfulito opposed:to-me,sand wbO orra.gn me no. how" p e irve thaso,..vannely, the transfer a the. serarices of 'a- Merito-. tent . rrty Vfdr&-(Loud. chews). Ors Mr. .oinizing's tiousiralividual—He had moved 1 . ,f 41r Ainiitty belhgfoi,med, 'avowed my' intiutints of . ..•. • - f ommlttce and siloulds the last to under, aise c tiseir. resiining my 40.. Ili tb eiplaniOns whithtfontitre4 • •• .64 •• it • 7 ! •T: • 7 • . • r vo - " •r. 1 I ;; I 1: 1 , 1 I .1 4 , j ~~h ~~