Star. — London, England, 1801-11-04 00:00:00

=PI 7"T r of it was not known until in Britifh hands, it had felt the benefits of Britifh induflry and Britifh inapitaL Such were the colonial poifeff.ons which we bad acquired by the War. °lt was true that the War was net undertaken for the parpofe of co- lonial conquefts ; yet the force of the country had b:enntoft wifely direfted to that lthjeft for when ever we were at war with FIVACC,OIIe dour Srtl ob jeas mull always be to cripple her marine, which could never be better done than try contracting her commerce—by depriving her of her colonial lief feffions. But although we 'were difappointed in the objefts of the war, thefe poffeffscus fhould ueverthelefs have been held as pledges of in demnity, and Rill more as pledge. for fecurity. And if the Continent of Europe could not have been reftored to its former date, they ought to have been retained as a counterpoife to the , power ef France. The Noble Secretary teemed to reit a great part of his defence of the Tveaty by a fort of arzessewan ad IN:Aiassit. by a comparifon of the Treaty with the Projet of Lille. He dif dained to Tetrad what he then did, bwt he thought the prefent queftion ought to be decided by argu ments of higher importance; and drawn from the nature of things thcmfelves. But it efcaped the Noble Lord's mentery, that in addition to what they propofed to cede by the Projeft qf Line, the prefent Treaty gave up Surinam, Malta, and Mi norca ; upon what new principle in negociation was it, that after four years of additional war and exptnce that they fhould offer more to receive kfs; which was the cafe, as between the pre ' fent Treaty and the Projet of Lille. The Noble Lord raid, that they treated on a foot ing of equality. At Lille the cafe was different, for at no time during the continuance of the war %vas the fpirit of the country fo much depreffed as jug at that period. If he were aiked, why did they chufe fuels a moment or defpondency to ne gociate ? He would fairly fay, that it was a mo mast preferred by no man ; but they were fully convinced, though it was then a melancholy re geaion, that the war could no longer be carried on, unlefs the people of this country were con vinced that peace would not-be granted by the then Rulers of France, upon any terms of mo deration.• or fuch as could be acceded to. A va riety of caufes all combined to produce that def. pondency : The goppage at the Bank—the confe. quences of which were expeited to be more dreadful than they turned out to be : the de fe6tion of our Allies, which was as difcouraging as unexpetted : and, above all, from that caufe which he wifhed it were poffible to blot front his memory, he meant the deplorable mutiny in our fleet. If fuch were the fituatiiin of the country, the terms then might have been defended upon necegity. But at prefer* no man had ventured to affert that the prefent was a meafure of that more. It was contended, that by the prefent Treaty much was obtained, as betide Ceylon and Teinidada, we had obtaistedfecurky for our Allies. His Lordflip contended, that in the negociat ions at Lille we had gipnlated every thing for our Allies, and had beer. willing to concede on our own part. In the precept Treaty we had made no provifion I for the NinceofOreogt, for whom, in the Pro jag at Lille, there bad been an exprcfs flipnlatioa. It was the more hemming on the part of this coun try en have tome fuch a ftipulatiou, becatife the Colonies which had been regored to Holland had b eak 9 btai l wAll by mug of him. Tse Noblc Logi, • ,11=anrte otrlTttrieli mull be by an examination of thole terms ; by weighing our cdfions and our conquers; and by balancing our loffes, our acquirements, and our relative tituation. Ia entering into mgociation, every flatefinan knelt that are bafis nauft be one of thefe two—either to take the original Mate of things at the commencement 'of hot: tilities, the jatsu gee ante bedura ; or the aftual hate of things, the ail pojideris, at the moment of negotiating. From one of there points every negotiation mutt fet out. True it was, that if the Bate of things were fuch, that they could not be replaced in their original pofition; or that tbefu perioriry of one tide was fuch as to treader ridicu lous fuck a projeft, at lean every deviation in the other cafe ought to be narrowly watched and ma turely confidered. If we were inferior' to our enemy, that molt unquellionably mutt be taken into eonfideration. But that was not our fitua tion—he heard every Noble Lord difclaim it— which relieved him from the neceffity of going into a detail, Which itherwife he thould have done, to prove that at no period of the tali year were we inferior to the enemy either in thought, means or refources, to Zontinne the contett with vigour and diva. If it were fo ; if the fituation of the country was elevated and prof s, we ought to,have had honourable terms of Peace, becanfe we were in a condition to demand. them; and entitled to alk fuch as were adequ-ste with our rank and power. This being the titua tionolisur own , country, he Acta their lordthips next to confider what was the fituation 00 France? and by comparing the two countries to fee what were tbeir relative conditions. It was far from his intention to under-value the acquisitions of France; onthe contrary he thought them more important than they were genentlly efteemed. She had made the Rhine the boundary of her Empire ; Me had acquired Savoy, &c. And had not only extended her territory beyond what the ma& am bitious of her Monarchs ever had in contemplation, but the had her frontier protefted by Dependant Republics, and Tributary Kings. On our fide me , had fuccefies no lets brilliant and ftriking; we had multiplied our colonies, and our navy rode invin cible. We had refcued Egypt e we had captured Malta : we had polkaed ourfelves of Minorca; and the Mediterranean was shut up from the Chips of, France and Spain. In the Eaft Indies we had every thing except Batavia, and that we thould lave pollElfei, but it was not thought worth the colt of an expedition. We had the Cape of Good Hope, if not the only, at leap an important key to the Eaft. In the Weft Indies we had every thing defirable Martinico, Trinidad, &c. Upon the Continent Of South America we had an abfo. lute empire, in extent almoft equal, and fuperior to that power to whom we rellored it. He meant Surinam, Demerara, &c. &c. indeed, the value tlse7iQt - 74 74-- iewiif virl l ittl ''..- 7 ' ;d — lTeen done for Porte - w gal, which he confidered tis too little, and as den-, gerous to our interells, by affording the French a Niyal Station in the River of Amizons.— . li' the EA,. his L!zrdfhip confidered the aceeffion of -- Myfore territory as not to be under-rated, but forming no part of the merit of the prefent Peace. He deprecated the ceffion of Cochin, for which the projed at Lifle ftipulated fo esprefsly, and on the importance of which to the fafety of India, his Lordlbip particularly .nulled. With refpea to the Cape, he coniidered the ceffica of it particularly unfortunate, when we had loft, as we lhould find we bad done on the event of a new War, Portugal as a place cfrefreflintent for our Troops on their voyage to India. In the Weft Indies he regretted that Trinidada 'had been preferred to Martinique. In the Moditerrauean, all that we had taken we had ceded, and the Porte bad been compelled to exclude us from enjoying any parti cular commercial advantages, s ofter the greateft fervice that had ever been rendered by one country to another. • His Lordlbip particularly inveighed againft the Preliminaries as unfatisfadory, and as leaving too much to hr fettled by a definitive treaty. He confider ed'Prdlimioarics, where fo much was left to be difeuffed, as little better than a naval armiftice. On the fubjea of the Newfoundland Fifhery, the words of the treaty were different limn . thofe generally employed, and therefore dangerous. His Lordfhip, at great length, went into the danger to which the country would, in its intern' fituation be expofed, and concluded by hoping that the peace eaabbiliment would be,fuch as to avert danger. Lord Git EN WILLI was followed by the Lord Chancellor, Lord Rawdon, Lord Warwick. Lord Mulgrave ' the Nilo:1p of Itochefier, the Bilhop of London, and Earl Fitzwdliam ; for a report of their fpeeches it is impoffible for us at prefent to make room, After which Lord Sr: Vtupswe rote to take no tice of an exprefLon which bad fallen from a No ble Earl for whom he bad thehighat, raped and elteetn. 'That Noble Earl (Lord apogees-) had laid, that the Preliminaries on the Table Were attended ' with circumflances of humiliation and difgrace to this country. His Lordfhip denied that any thing. like either attached to them. The Preliminaries, he was convinced; were eenallT honourable and ' 'advantageous to- this country, and the Owe he had the bottom to have bad in advifutg their being acceded to, be lhould ever confider as the pride of his life. By the Peace. the Preliminaries of which were under coofideration, we Ited ob tained two of the roof valuable iflands to the F whole habitable globe, confidered either in a poli tical or a commercial view. On many other ac counts, which he would not at that late hour at tempt to detail, the Peace WRS a fit fubjea of ex ultation, and not of lamentation. I Lord Na Lieu rife to (peak a few words refpea ing a point, , in regard to which no one of their Lordfilipscould, perhaps, (peak with more. infor m. con than himfelf. With regard to Malta, that Hand, when the noble Earl fent him d'oern the Mediterranean, was in the hands of the French, and on his return from the battle df Aboukir, be thought it his firfl object to blockade it, becaufe he deemed it an invaluable piece of fervice to refcue it from the hands of the French. 'ln any other point of vices, he could attire their Lon:Mips, that Malta was of no fort of confegnence td this coun try i it lay at too great a difkance fibril Toulon, to ferve as a Ratios to Watch the fleets of the French that put to fea from that port. The Nary iiitof Bucant 9 time lainentedfiontrelY, that he could not give his confetti to the 1- naries on the table, becaufe he thou& them hi y Prl e humiliating and difgraceful to this ccqq~~aattrryy In lira place he held them to be dilhontile, inat. mochas they did not keep faith with our Allies,but left them expofed and unproteCted. Portugal, in particulars was molt shamefully abandoned, and he could allure the Hotife that the Treaty with France, of which they had heard and teen fo much, that there could be no .doubt of its authenticity, although they had it not Parliamentary on their table had been ratified llncce the firft of Odober, the day on which the Preliminaries were figned. By that Treaty with Franey this Country was ill but excluded altogether from her former tinnier , Lial istercourfe with Portugal. anr,l if it were true that the cloths of France were to be received as thole of the moll favoured nation, our manufactu rers of woollen cloth would food talk the bitter fruits of this price, for they wouldnot eerily forget that Portugal, if not now our greateft cultarner for woollen , cloths, was certainly our oldea collomer. So much, therefore, for the good faith of the peace. The Earl of C.a s aaaaa ow aligned his reafons for not concurring is the motion for approving the pre liminaries. He *greed with the Noble Marquis that there was nothing wale than a hollow truce, which gave no fecurity to the Country for a continuance of Peace,land was difgraceful and dillionourable, becaufe it did not (hew that we had kept 'our faith with our Allies. His Lordlbip declared he fhould vote against the motion. Lord HOBART in a pointed but fummary @eel, replied to the leading arguments that bad been urged againll the motion. the quellion being put from the Woolfack, the Houfc divided. Contents 94 —Proxies zo—Not Contents to—Proxies o. The Mover, Seconder, and other Noble Lords withdrew as a Committee to draw pp the Addrefs from the Refolutions that had been voted. and loon returned, when Lord Konya w prefented it to the Woolfack. On the Qseftion put, it was agreed to, and the Lords with White Staves ordered to wait on his Majefly, to know when he would be. pleated to receive it.—Lord PeLitAtil then moved, that the Lords be fummoned for next Tuefday—Ordered. • The Lords then adjourned to Friday next. , HOME OF COMMONS. The Hook on the Motion of the Cvootcrit.on Of the Es cqo es, went bre a Committee •ao etre Doty on Salt, Spirits, sod Starch, and le Report was reedvet MIA IMINAZiII Of 'TAM Mr. WINDHAM rok and laid, he was not in the Houfc when a Noble Lord (Hawkeibury) had cr plained what was to be underflood by the 6th 4rtigle of amlirninAties which guaranteed the % teftntklitiMoß Faithful lia)ely o accliitll he heard what were the terms of the Tre jadosi but he their underflood that a conilderable part of the dominions of her Molt Faithltd Wellywets faterendered to Spain by that Treaty, and that Dl6nißers had done no snore than to proted her, from HI greater facrifices. LordThwagllVßY faid,thst certainly her moll Faithful Majefly bad made fame facrifices by the Treaty of Bajades, but in this Treaty France took no part. A fubfequent treaty had however been figned at Madrid between Portugal anti France, by which flat greater facrigces were Made; bnt his Majelty's Miniftera hid preferred her Molt Faith ful Moray front the peceffity of fulfilling that Treaty by the 6th article of the Preliminaries. Mr. Wiwomau was "about to reply, when the Stamm obferving that there was no queflion be fore the Houfe, put a flop to the converfation. The SPIAZIa then read the Order of the Day for taking into confideration the Preliminaries of Peace figned between Gyat Britain and the French Republic.. . 1 .. - ' Sir Eowliinlflieeti raid, Ite . :we:ll/d not tref pars long s opt. the tilnc of Houle. lif should be 34 brief as the Inaptitude of the cubic* oa which he.had the borrow to aeidrefo them would admit. It was one' in whicluthe pmflierity and happiziefs, not only br . this Country, but of c at portion of the babilabt e • w i li r r . deed. and va it u Tt e "eq e l :7E, C Zt e :ndttf re ul fi rr . pU lo le through the, 'ter' of our prams and fo lders, and -klie imparallded exertions of the Goverruntnt aided by the almoft uttanimais fllPlrrt of the Country, he thought we had much carafe fOr triumph at its clofe. If we did not altogether rue ceed in the objeas of the war, we had obtained an equivalent for that part in which we had failed; and a change in the featinients of the enemy had etfeded the ref. We *rent to war, he Paid, to put a flop to the progrefs of that 4ftem of ja cobinifm which prevailed in France, the ojeft of which was the total annihilation cif all regular governments: The other objets we had in view was, to put a flop to the aggrjndizement of France. In the former we have fucceeded, by the change which has taken pla t ee in the opinion of the people of France, and their having at pre., fent atoveratnent of foipe apparent liability, ca pable of, and inclined to fupport the relations of peace and amity with furrounefing nations. In the latter, we cannot be raid to ham failed ; for, if France has gained an acquifition of territory by the conteft, we have alto added more to our domi nions in Afia, than Ate has in Europe. Befides,l we have the addition of a valuable island in the Weft Indies, froth which much advantage muft be derived to our commerce and manufa&ures. He then moved, "That an humble Addrefs be prefented to his Majefty, tp thank his Majefly for the gracious communication which he 'has been pleated to make to that Houle upon the fubjeft of the. Preliminaries of Peace figned between this Country a and the French Republic ; and to affure his Majefly of the 1 - Disport of that Houk to give, effect to the fame." , I I Mr. Lis rote to fecoad the Addrefs. He &id o l the fubjeft; on which he 'Nat *nut to addrefs the Houfe, made it particularly hecelfary that he fhould be their indulgence. It was a fubjed which he, as a Member Tor that part of the tinned Kingdom called Ireland, wok not in the habit of :difculling, os that part of the United Kingdom, previous to the Unimr,l'll always left the godlier' of Peace and War to be determined by the Parlia ment of Great Britain. However, concurring as he did in fentintent with the Hon, Gentleman who had juft fat crown, he felt much pleafure in fecotsd.- ing are motion which that Hon. Gentleman 'had Hlt fubmittedto the contideration of that Houk. e thought his Majelly'r ,bEnifters had availed themfelves of the only favourable moment which' had occurred Gncc the commencement of the cow; tell, of kting aperiod telt ; and he was happy' to find their exertions Were likely to be erokned With fuccefs. He was aware that tome ohjedion would be made to the Preliminary Articlesof Peace, parti cularly from a quarter where the integrity of the motives which adu,ated fuch objeAions was pretty generally admitted ; but that an Hon. Gentleman who had fat in his Majefly'i Councils, had given' a vote for fending a P lenipotentiary to Laic ; or ifite did not give a vote, Rill held his fituation among thofe Counkllors who aged fo very con.' trary to his opinion, could how arraign his Ma. jeay's pfelent Minifters for having aged as they had done, was a line of candult which be could not reconcile to himfelf. 'That Hon. Gentleman continuing to fit in there Councils dining the Treaty of Lille, mutt be virtually confidered to have affented to it ; yet the Moore was now pre pared to expeft the molt decided oppofition to that Peace which was now likely to be brought about by his Majefty's prefcnt Minifters; and which he could venture to afferr, was as honourable and as beneficial to the nation as that which would have been effefted by the Treaty of Lifle, - had the ne , ' gociations terminated in a pacification. Since that period a great change has taken place for the better in the affairs of the Empire. Great appre henfions were entertained at the period that treaty was commenced for our halo:wins in thea Indies; and it' was found tusciffary in theirs* delivered by Minifters to Loa Malmefbuty to fti pulate for the • Cape of Good Hope, which by the prefent treaty was to be made ' 'a Fres Port, that was the whole diffeience. The quellion was, had we gained the objea we bad in view, and preferred - our Honour and our Integrity t He, law no end to WA, if Parties were net to ;rive up on either fide fome point' of a Treaty. Were thole Gentlemen who opp'ofed the War prepar ed to fay that we &mild have re-kin dle d the flame of War, bccanfe we would not content to mak.t the Cape of Good Hope a Neutral Port ? Were they prepared to fay that the Terms, asthey were before theHoufe, ought to have been refuted, and the war continued ? Surely the fupporters of the Treaty at Lille mat appeove the grefint.— The feettrity for the permanence of the Treaty had *ell qneftioned, but he knew of no better fe- ettrity than ;he mutual ;lamas of the parties.— ' ; He rananbered having heard it - Termed of as peror of Morocco, who,whenadvifed he was a',oillu; to break a Treaty by fome .aa he was about to commit, faid, a I nuly adhere to Treaties fo lor.z as they agree with my interell." He was mild-, inclined to think the coarfe 'language of the Moor. ithchieftain wouldapply !ell forcibly to thernore poldhed Courts of Europe. The mutual heat*, of the Parties would,he conceived, fbrcibly ope rate in the prefent intiance to give fecarity to the e rr . vifions,of the Treaty.—Upon the whole,he thought it the bell Peace that under all the circtunflancei could be obtained. Lord G. L. GOWER remarked, that the eirctint. fiances by which we were warranted to forma can. pardon between the conceffions which were pr o ., pored at one time, andwhat were made at anoth er , mutt be thole in which the country was placed st different' periods, At the period when Lord Malmetbury went to negociate at Lille, fix month had not elapfbd from' are time that the Bank had flopped payment; when an alarming mutiny had broken forth in our:fleet, and when not only our home fleet, but thole upon foreign Ratim s , were fuppofed to be tainted with the fame fpirit. Ireland watt aker at thit period in a 'Rate of emmi. petit danger.' that rebellion was then maturin g , whichafterward% hurft %rib with fo mach via: lence. ,The fleets of the enemy were then alto nearly equal to our own ; in the Mediterral,, not an E,ziglifh map of war was to be fern, w; l ,lc, the French had the uncontrouled range of that fe.t. Our fituatiors now was materially altered, an d greatly impreved: Our fleets now fwept th e whole of .t Mediterranearrefrotn the Straighti of Gibraltar to the foal l of ,Syria, Ireland was now fecured to as by means of the Union wi t h that country ; we, had had a rapid fucceßion of great achievements during the loft cattraign.„. : Such were the different ctrou mliances of the coon try at there two periods. 'By the treaty of Liile N and notwitbßanding all the difadvantageous en. cumtlances in which the country was then placed, it was fliptdated that we were to retain the Cape doodflope, which was more than was done in the treaty now before the Horde. Add to which, thai by the prefent Treaty we were to concede Minorca, Goreei S urinam , Port Praya, Malta, Egypt, rt. and wh at we may have obtained (ince. This Treaty flipulated, that Portugal was to be feared in the integritj of her poffeflions, but this was ' ' after the heifer had made Peace with the enemy, by the ceffion of one, of her prOvinces. Weiv,hing all theta circpmflances , he mutt conies, tha t it ap. ' pearcd to him, that the Conditions of this Peace were fuch as had fallen (port of his ezpeaation. a t . to what this country had a right to cepal. got in declaring this as his fincere opinion, he was not prepared to fay, that Minifters could have obtained better terms, or tht better terms could have kern , obtained by the continuance of the war. He Was aware alfo, that the Treaty had met with the re , neral approbation of the country. On there ;le- . ' counts, be did not feel hit:calf at liberty to °pool: 'the Addrefs which the Hon. Member had adoVed; but though not prepared to go at length, he was far from confidernag this Treaty of Peace to be • fuch this country had a right to eeft. Lord Haws Esau' v. role andaddreffed the Houle to the following area ;—a. Sir, I rife at this GO) hour of the de bate, in confequence of the okras*. dons which hate f allen from my NobleFriEn c d, add in order to isPlain, I truft, OS the faddirolion of 'bargemen, the motives which indoePel hid Asa-. jetty's Miniftera to enter into* negotiation wit`{ the French Republic, and to cone - Iliac the PArlimi., naries of that Treaty Ilibmitted this night Co' the confideration of the Houle. The very Mat - Sirs k urged-by my Noble ,Frierid againft the nature sad terms of the Tresity,:tend, in my opinion, melt di rbaly and Rrongly to evince their preprie and clairni to the approltation °Utile country, and to ' the fanetion of Parliament. He has tindertilkyt to compare the projea as propofed by Lard Gran; vine at Lille, with the articles of theirrefent wd jutimens ; a mode of proceeding ernwarranted,hy the fail. confideration of both in their various re lationg, and he has ventured to affimileM between which no cornparifon can era, -ilia' ! " in pofitive terms, that they cannot be cooping! for no man will venture to deny that tord'Gria ville would have been glad to have taken leatrOst the Government of Ftanee than he danandedit that period of negociatio*. After nine yeats'ef lotion of blood, after cantraaiag art increak: of ' debt to the amount of nearly two hundred after the indefatigable and uninterrupted exertian: of the country ; but at: the fame time, after farces of the moll fplendid atchievemeinte and tin exampkti 'tumefies, there is not a• man in the kingdom who mull not admit that PeaCe was a molt defiraple attainment ; was the object of his fincereft willies and molt ardent defines. But. notwithflanding the hope and seal with which mallikave looked and laboured for- the reßoradot of tranquillity, I folemnly diftlaim, the plea which has been let up by fome perfons ; the pica Of over-ruling neceffity. lam impreffed,..that lath a cattle for the conclufion of the. Prelintinaly Treaty, will not he traced to any thing like ficti'- fatory groupds. lam dilittms that his Majefty's Minifters fhould, in the adoption of that maitre, ' be tried by thofc reafons in which the war origi nated, by which it was clrried on, and which were found to atilt when the contra ceafed. In laying thus much, I am, &r, aware that the. Peace, how k - ever eligible, however adequatelo the relative Rate of this country and of France ; however it can be jultified upon the principles of found policy; is not free of all evil, of all chance, of all ri& or dan ger. But let me alk what event has taken place in the tecolleftion of all who heat me, or what event may yet take place, in accounting for which *bay been or will be poible to remove every okieaiont Ido not attempt to pledge myftlf fur tits facority . which the Peace will give to this country, or to be relponfible for the liability of the Treaty ; but un der all the circumfiancei in which we were lituat ed, I maintain that it is honoarable and advan tageous ; and the quellion now for the deciSion of the Houle is, Whether his Majelly's Miniflers have been to blame or not ? In the confideratiois of this queßion, Gentlemen will not, I am per.. faded. We fight ht . du relative 0.46 at dig me • i rrt s tt c mart n hje3 t en d of Na , ate ing Re t h e ? re t h e c on nr ittclr.o titer) the co) w ar I): Intrrfet D irt at cottotr lnd it here} T ent fo this I we d dbio the 1 tiim 1 tlt it atne ler' OTC! t i pet The flea the thC tngl cf Rrel fans ten Pa Ph tot