Star. — London, England, 1819-04-06 00:00:00

I .. icase e m easure was adopted they might find e e rr; lsto be relied on. In conse q uence of te rs. : t-r i l -, en by the Bank, the drain began and d cing any grand object, ex producing aisoc a rto able the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite 117. r - en-ellc: of the Ethequer) to make a speech, had resumed cash-payments. ha the link //, Op,sl:inn Benches.) It was only licn the Committee met that he (Mr. first time learned that the measure was in contemplation, and if he were all that he knew he could state sea. ought not to pass. As however s which as a ember of the Secret was not at libertyM to disclose, he should those which it was fairly within his With respect to the Bank it had they were so anxious for a return to that they felt quite uneasy at not being tetlieni—(A laughfrom thcOppositiou.) also said, that the proposed measure in order to prevent the drain of specie thought, however, that he had heard at se far from the drain having lately it was diminished. If this were cor- I be glad to know what were the Bill? Ile should wish to know why not purchase specie ?—( Hear, from they were anxious for a re tyracnts they.miglit purchase specie, au Might be obliged to do so at some inceived that after their stupid conduct it no better name) of issuing gold with paper with the other, they deserved to their folly.—(Hear.)--Ne felt quite if the Bank would pay the price, they ; gold, and as they had been for the years gaining, it was: extraordinary toweyer small to them, should be con ifficient reason to prevent the resump- Paymenti. It had been stated, that the drain last year, and that half that haps be lost if the proposed measure tdiately adopted; bat he would ask, um ought to be considered as equiva of character which the House would ;sing the Bill ? The Noble Lord had Terence between the circumstances of : at present He (Mr. Tieitey) granted• to exit, but would ;Tea from it that id nut hurry on the pe.tsing of.the pro le did not suppose that this Bill, if operate merely for the remainder of tut that the principle of it would be lan:tier regulations might be introduced return to Cash Payments. After de precedent that the Bank should not be inconvenience Which their awn folly upon them; the Honourable Member apologisit,g for troubling the House on specially as he had already in the morn . his opinions concerning it to the Gen composed the Committee. He felt it, mach his duty to deliver his opinions on that be could not avoid discharging it , occasion, although he was obliged in repeat some of the arguments which he tied hut in vain. —( Hear, hear, hear.) 1100 said that he felt great embarrass ;nod in need of the indulgence . of a :eking upon this subject after the Right ' Gentleman —(Hear.)—lle knew not the :t of this measure ; but, without know thought the measure ought to have been ig ago. The only payments in specie those persons who, contrary to law, er , or melted it into bullion, and they did reserve that they should be protected from tence of this measure. Were' we CO put :es between C 3 17s. 100. and 4.3 10s. pockets? If 100 millions . of gold were the imprudent &der of the Bank, the ob ild be equally valid t,o this.measure ; but new of resuming cash payments, it was 4to prevent the smallest drain. The reduc- Bank issues ought to he gradual, and the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Peel) had repro the only consideration on which the prir• ire was proposed was to secure us from the gradual advance towards the resumption tyments—(Hear, hea;•.)—'Cho Right Hon. n near him (Mr. Tierney) hid argued, that ik paid in gold they had an inducement to :rice of gold, otherwise tha t tr ig had not :ement—(Mr. Tierney cp that the td c'.2 induced to reduce their notes).—The al as then, that if the Bank paid in gold they induced to lower the price of gold by rep fir note;--(Mr Ti , :rnsy—.. Yee ;1' but the always anxious to have at the'loytes to reduce their notes for the purpose of so; he begged pardon for having arruded in the attention of the House—(Hear, hear) tuded svith saying that he considered this an iy good measure. • ANNING said, the Right Honourable Gen► id tailed of the stupid conduct of the Bank ag their Resolution of 1817. But he had no. in saying that the conduct thus censured red to be in e , .act conformity with the wishes ~10 Houses of Parliament. Those were cer the truest prophets who prophesied after the But it was impossible for the Bank to have the loans for 'France and the deficient har t any Meml:er would calculate the value of ign corn impcfted in consequence of that de y, he ;meld find that it was to the amount of ten millions sterling. When the Right Hon. l :man (.Jr. Tierney) said that the new light ke in upon the Bank at twelve o'clock to- Orr. Manning) must say, the light did not upm him till near three o'clock to-day, as titers engaged ca an Election Committee till ar, and not a bl e to nttel:4l the Bank Commit (le must also say, that he believed the greater r3te Gentlemen. of the Bank had not yet aware of the Dill now intended. I)Avlk t s , cmssloooed the measure as intended rue the convenience of the Bank, and at the sit the ontatry. They would exchange dear P 4 i , tt for gold, and inundate the country with 146 he c '' ucci `el mituted he the tendency of the 4•GUNFELL sa id •ne WAS much astonished to 4 -able '2atleman (Mr. Manning) sty - . -ton et toe Bank to yay In:nay in 'specie, in 1817, was adopted, in conformity with the wishes of the two Houses of Parliament. He wished to know how the wishes of Parliament had been thus expressed, for he thought it was an imputation against the House which ought to be repelled, when it was said that they_ could have wished the Bank to adopt so ill-advised a measure. Mr. MANNING explained. The wishes of Parlia ment had certainly been distinctly expressed in favour of a speedy return to cash payments, and, of course, a measure which was a partial return to that state, must be considered as so far conforming to that wish. Lord' A. HAMILTON thoug ht this Bill was a mode of continuing the' Bank restriction different from that usually adopted. As this measure was re- I commended by the Committee, he would not vent ure to speak decisively upon it till the Repo rt of that Committee was before the House, as it might throw light upon the subject. For the present, he disa proved of it, elewing it as the measure of his Ma jesty' jesty's Ministers. Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, he never in his life entertained a more clear opinion of the necessity of any measure than of this. It was because he was eafnest and anxious in his wish tor the resumption of cash payments, that he pressed for the adoption of this Bill, and because he did. sot trust to the • sincerity of the Bank in wishing for this resumption. The ope ration of this Bill would . be to compel the Bank to. recur to cash payments. It had been said that an Order in Council should have been adopted. But he contended that it would have been a monstrous assumption of power for Ministers to have stepped in with an Order in Council at the very time when the House had delegated to a Committee the whole power of inquiring into this subject. He thought-the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Peel) had even gone too far in disclosing the reason why the House should adopt the measure. It was enough to have stated seriously that the Committee thought it necessary. If an Order of Council had ben issued, the course would have been to refer it to that very Committee which was now sitting, to see whether it were neces sary, which would be absurd, when the Committee,, if they thought it necessary, should have applied at once to the Home.—(l.lear, hear, hear.) Mr. BROUGHAM explained. His objection to t the present mode, instead of an Order in Council, was its sudden and violent suspension of the Standing Orders of the House. CALC It AFT remarked, that no one had talked of cash payments being near at hand, nor was it likely, that any one cou p venture to do so. But if it were not near at hand, then the object and effect of this Bill were too trifling to justify the House in adopting (t. In measures of this kind, it was proper to consider what would be' dna effect of them on the public. mind. If he could at all anticipate the effect of this measure, he thought it would be considered as placing the hope of resuming cash payments at a greater distance than ever. Mr..CANNING said, it was undoubtedly of the nature of such a measure as that now proposed, that if adopted, it must be is a degree on the confidence reposed in those by whom it was recommended. But those Gentlemen who had objected only to the mode in which it was proposed to carry it through, must consider. that their objections would be equally dent to it, whether it, was adopted now or after the recess—(.:m; hear.) If the measure was necessary, it was indispensible that it should be pressed with the utmost celerity, and that could only be done by sus• pending the Standing Orders —for it was to be eon. Fidered that agitating this question would produce the evil which it was sought to avoid. It was true that iiil - ;97,the Bank matleanapplication to the Executive Gov e time nt, which applied the necessary remedy, and then applied to Parliament to sanction it. But thorn, as new, the application of the remedy was instant.* ,To have gone into an extended discussion upon . the „remedy, would have been to excite; and create the very evil which it was sought to remove. But how had the Executive Government acted now ? It had 'not necessarily any knowledge of what was done in the Committee ;• and he had yet to learn that it was the duty of those ...I embers of the Government who sat on that Committee to convey to the Crown in-, foimation of its proceedings, for the purpose of is. suing an Order in Council—(JJear. hear, hear.)—. If the recommendation on the Report of the Corti rnatee had been made on vague grounds, it . wouid be for the House to judge of that hereafter. But if it were, as that Committee had almost unanimously resolved, that the present state of things would ope. rate to Nt off the period of resuming Cash Payments; snrcly it was not too much for them to ask the House to adopt this interlocutory proceeding. It was enough that no man, by agreeing to this measure, was pledged to the opinion of the Committee—(Jlear, hear) Mr. BROUGHAM explained.—He wished to know whether he was to understand from tire Right Honourable Gentleman who spoke last, that the im pediment which suggested this measure, was so for midable as to make it absolutely necessary. Mr. CANNING.—A,.s to the word necessary, when they came to beat out t he argument, perhaps they might disagree upon it; but in his own opini mustons the meas ure was necessary, and if necessary, it immediate. Lord ALTBORP said, he thought the strongest objections to this measure had not yet been removed. The Bank had made great gain by the restriction, and it was but fair that they should undergo part. of the loss to be incurred in resuming cash payments. Mr.W.JSKISSON said. if the measure was pro posed merely to guard the Bank against any loss in purchasing b u llion, he should not insist upon its ne cessity. But if the Bank bought all the gold in Europe, and issued it all, no considerable part of it would remain in this kingdom, and, in point of fact, we should be as far as ever from the permanent re sumption of cash payments, The gold now in the coffers of the Bank, if it were issued, would be in stantly exported. The object, therefore, of this Bill was to prevent the'necessity of its being issued under such circumstances ; and the Committee had stated, that when they presented their Report, they were Of opinion they would recommend measures which wooed enable the Bank to resume cash payineots. Mr. ELLICE had no objection to the present met sure; it would have been better to bate proPosedit „ two years ago, as many of the evil consetitiener of the present system might then have bees evade' 11t3 had not yet seen any reason wiry an evile ref in- , whose nature they had all been agreed, t" sacred to continge.ao •iting. • TO 0.4- ever, of the present Measure were so different from that he h e r c d u H i a d i A i nc l ot i e d r E n t oi t o ed h ß o b w of y ' t h e i th s ee M e c u o aj l estr c c ile H ' t s h E G e Q m o u v t e E o lli g ß m etb s en al er . t d , . he was so strong ly impressed with the inconvenience of entering at large into the discussion of the sub ject on this occasion, that he hardly thought it ne cessary for him to trespass at all upon the time of the' 'House. The expediency of the measure must be rested on the grounds stated by his Right Honourable Friend (Mr. Peel). The Committee stated as one of the means for enabling the Bank to resume cash pay ments,s n nec is ess wa ar s y so to th p y r i esz t e ha th t now in t th he at ß l a t nr. e the sp : c nl i y e thing which seemed to require any apology, was, that the measure had not been sooner proposed. But when the Report of the Committee eels presented, the rea son would be explained why the measure had not been proposed at a more early period. The Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Tierney) had expressed surprize that the measure had not been proposed last Session, when the Bank Restriction Act was conti need. But the House must recollect, that at the pe riod alluded to the strongest expectations were enter tained that the restriction would only be continued for a.very short period. These hopes had not been realized. Upon the whole, thetefore, he was con vinced, that, under the circumstances in which this measure was -brcught forward, the House would feel the necessity of agreeing to it. A new MEthisett•regretted that the proposition had not been' brought forward at an earlier period. It was worthy of .rotree, that it had been offered for their 'consideration only two days before the payment of the dividerds by the Bank. Considering the natural agitation of the public mind on the subject, it might apprise e wise me-asure for Ministers to press the Bill rapidly through the House. from this view, he thought it utterly inexpedient to oppose it. Mr. It PEEL explaitted.-s-The House had not been appealed to without ample documents that the existing circumstances demanded such a measure. The issue of gold, which had proved so injurious to this country, by withdrawing so large a sum from our circulation, was a sufficient reason, without even any other proof; and allowing that t here had been no particular drain since the nth of January, there was no cause why we should delay the measure a single moment after the Report of the Committee. Those who had chiefly formed that Committee had recommended that the regulation should be brought up to the present period. The Report of the French Mini,ter of Finance, from whose information the means of increasing their cash circulation had been ascertained, was another strong proof of the expe• diency of the intended Bill. The advances made by the Bank, to the amount of five millions in cash, for the purpose of withdrawing an equal sum in notes, arose from the best of motives. Had it been foreseen that metallic treasure to that amount would have been drained from this country to convert into French francs, neither the Government nor the Bank would have been so deficient of their duty as to hare coun tenanced the expedient. By the advantage thus un fairly and unexpectedly taken, our public circulation ,of cash was of course deficient to that amount. The Member was about to make his motion, when ' The SPEAKER referred to the usual rules of the Wine on the introduction of such a Bill. ' r. Mr. PEEL, thanking the Right Hon. Gentleman, proved that the House do now resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House.—Agreed to, Mr. IlusztssoN took the Chair in the Committee; when Sir R. PEEL moved, that leavete given to bring in a Bill for restraining the Bank Directors from making Cash Payments under certain notices, Atc..--The House was resumed. Mr. HUSK ISSON, as Chairman of tile Commitlee, brought up the Report, and followed it up by mov ing for leave to bring in the Bill. It was agreed to ; when Mr. Pest brought in the 13111, which was read a first and second tittle. It was afterwards commit ted to a Committee of the wholy Ilouw. The Report was afterwards received by the house, and the Amendnients were read and agreed to. It was then ordered to be engrossed, Daring this interval, the I House proceeded to the subsequent Orders. A isnssEp T.r Avg. The CHANCELLOR of the F,XCIIEQUEII, seeing an Honourable Baronet (Sir NV, Ridley) in his gam hoped that if not inconvenient he would I consent to postpone his promi . ;el Motion on the As sessed Taxes till atter the holidays. ...Sir M. W. RIDLEY had no objection to accom modate the :tight lien. Gentleman ; but he thought it would not be amiss to state the ba , :is dins intended 1 , plan. Ile would subm it to the House a proposition tor a Voluntar: Contribution, in lieu of certain As sessod Tax.rs. lie would take the principle of the year 1818 as his basis, calculating from the sth of April, 1819 ; so that the several assessments made last year should be 'adhered to, and in case any per son wished to make a commutation or compremtse for the whole, that he should be indulged on pay ment of 5 per cent. in addition to his assessments. For this additional contribution, he should _not be 'called upon to make any further advance to Govern ment, let him add to his equipage or establishment , whatever he might think proper, in horses or car riages. It was also his intention to propose that. the law should continue for three years. These were the ,fundamental principles of the proposition which ire had in contemplation to submit to the Hour ; and he liras glad of the opportunity of explaining himself, in 'order that Gentlemen might revolve the subject fully in their miuds during the recess. The CHANCELLOR of tire EXCHEQUER ap proved of the proposition, and, as far as he could conceive, het hought it was founded on a very fair principle. . Mr. TIERNEY hoped that the Right Honourable _Gentleman, approving e ro w ell of the ip would not indulge his curiosity at the - ment, by - having too many cc; Tau-gatherers. Sir N. W. RIDLEY thought him to state, that if Qbvernntent ward 'a proposition of a similnr the 27th of April, he would to. the HOW; _,___,. • Tuk SfivitVatnarrtorto . After having-betetivtigrassed, was .sBoo,'When 'aftsp it; Ili a. witted . * thirdtifitr.' .:' Mr, 11110s0N - OURNE Y ii explaitiWg tlw cause of the which we had experienced. It arose from the i rn- Cldon of Corn to the amount of £10,000,000. t i cause had now ceased ; therefore we need be under no apprehension of farther drains of our me tallic treasure. DURATION OF THE RECESS. Lord CASTLEREAGH gave notice, that onWed nesday he would move that the House, on its rising, should adjourn to that day fortnight. BRITISH CLAIMANTS ON FRANCE. Mr. HUSK ISSQN stated, that he held in his hand a Petition fool two Gentlemen, who, from the pecu. liar nature of their claims, had been excluded from the benefits arising by the Commission appointed to ascertain and settle British Claims on France.— Although they had been excluded by the peculiar operation of the powers invested with the Commis sioners, yet the claims of these Gentlemen were founded in equity; and as British subjects, acting under the supposed protection of the British Govern tuent, they claimed some indemnity for the losses ' which they had sustained. Their losses arose from commercial misfortunes, in consequence of the Re volutionary Governments. They therefore prayed to be heard by themselves or Counsel, either before the Privy Council here, or before the Commissioners in Paris. Sir JOHN NEWPORT thought, that from the nature of the claims, as mentioned by the Right Ho nourable Mover, the House ought to consent to the prayer of the Petition. The Minister had been siMeesed e by let t t h er e not to give any preference to mo nioa . claiMants. He h „... ci a pe t :i ps h it at o liio t if; n iZt t Y "..t of rjr the year 1788, by faith of which several commercial houses had been established at Bourdeaux and other parts 'of France. The Honourable Baronet was convinced that com mercial interests ought to precede all funded claims. UP did not think that the three Commissioners now empowered te a , .seide on the subject of the claims on France weie competent to thAwni ein all c ase of a commercial nature ; and suggested that. un, n iotelli gent merchants should be added to the number or Commissioners, Mr. HUSKISSON said, that in many instances claims had arisen from what he had conceived an erroneous construction of the treaty. He differed from the Honourable Baronet as to the competency of the present Commissioners. In every case of commercial nature they were competent to form a iwoper and satisfactory decisiun, sir J. NEWPORT explained, by maintaining that commercial claimants ought to have a preference to funded claimants. Mr. C, HUTCHINSON observed, that there were claimants who had acted on the faith of the treaty of 1786, by the establishment of commercial houses in various parts of France I and that the property of those persons had afterwards been seized by the Re volutionists. He recommended those claimants to the attention of the Commissioners. Lord CASTLEREAGH intimated, that as soon as this question was dispr isedof,lie had some observaticns to offer on the subject of British claimants is Fratice. • The Petition was received, read, and ordered to ho on the table. Lord CASTLEREAGH rose to state tl:e plan which he meant to adopt with regard to the final s et, ,r,leeepkt. of . British Claimants on France. It was his intention to. move a proposition to-morrow, and to postpone the farther consideration of it until after t he holiday% His Lordship denied that anyincfcr , mice had been given to claimants, as Insinuated 'of the Honourable Baronet (Sir J. Newprat). whele number amounted. to 1,046, exceeding t . ;:i ..,iitio.c_.a£l.r.itic,N or about et ht millions stet:in-. The funded claims amounted to ruarinnortr - Fr francs, equal tp- two-thirds of the' whole amount, More than one.half of these had been adjudicated, anti were pow in . the course of payment, The•plan recommended to and adopted by the CornmissiOner s was, to commence with the. roost simple claims, th...t is, those which could be most easily ascertained. rn That CLASS, .if not the elcrity, formed a very large number, The funded claims were easier than those of the merchants. Proofs of the latter were fre quently very difficult and tedious, ma numbcr of tandel claimants was 738, and their claims, * ready stated, anionntei to 133 millions of francs.— This might be termed the most simple, because easily certified. The merchants advanced in a slower gra, dation, because proofs were often uncertain, hot even such as were presented were obtained with Much (lit', ficulty. No wise or prudent man could pretend to penetrate into remote causes and effects where such a variety of discordant parts were to be formed isno harmony, but so far as a judgment could be founded on principles of truth, there could be no doubt of 4 satisfactory termination of the business. His Lord ' ship declined entering . into further remark s. The y would be advanced with greater effect after Gentle. men had seen end read the printed Bill, . Mr. WILLIAM SMITH started some observations on the British ClaiMants against Spain: but he thought Ithat what he had to say would oome with greater advantage in some other stage of the business. Lord CASTLEREAGFI gave notice, that it was his intention to move the second reading of the Bri doh Claimants Will to-morrow, and afterwards move its commitment, POOR SRTTLRMENT SILL, . Mr. STURGES BOURNE, in answer to a Noble I.ord (Althorp), said, that the present Bill was simi lar to that which , had been before the House two years ago. That Gentlemen might fully cempreheed ;be effects of the Poor Settlement Bill, he should to morrow move that it be printed, and the further ,parisideration of it postponed till after the holidays. Mr, CALCRAFT stated, that he had opposed the Rill last year ; and be was afraid he would be ()Wig, itch front a sense of duty, to ()ppm it again, Mr • -et beli - - the Bill would an- from t . h . ~ morning ' 1 " for the fi ~'° e, v o r ' poied Fo;rdto slily this Bill *ief were reason! :orcittee he w u , a „te oaly on t.,c l rer to notice• said, that th payments ',iced to i tstune ..t hen it was a erequisite, in Ile tl --iai•pered, that ym.•.creased, it l a, he o chis for the ! might o r position min s zto Cash lb): although the vet he cone( . odd give it hard and pa ' mulcted for ~ J ailed that if eaZy get tw enty. one ) any loss, ho • as a stud , Call Y. octKO wits th would perk; •••• cot immedi . ,cr that sur ir:: :a the loss o taill by Pas . ' cad the Lido - aad those a;t diiaence ti tx House need pee Bill. He mcd, would 3i.vion, but alai in what :ng g the pt to any r. • brought t Luled by ai is sabject, esp delivered hi Lecka who 4:1 •• ever, so Inn 'ect, ili the present acing to ttli iready ua k. RICA a tat, and sttn Ewe in 'iccouable Crt ob:iect he th , long nia be to th :-7t t.,1 gold o it all dese rz cosequen ditrerence . .1.) their pc th . rions'wont * with the vie 'elpertita to tea of liar l Lbt anal that tl est measure els of a pi cash payr ieilcman r Ba n k t . er pr inducer Bat ;voc././ pan: vas - 4 , .».11,e in :4; tueit &t,.tia 1. e, and . ; ,7- 4 , it sc L•ase.l on cc clul had plsslag :le4.ve e 'er two t clY the Ittt. Bt !a i t If Y, i.-73 ten ra arzic !'••• t : I t Ile I . 4 e.er I tr. 'I fur • • •Lity k l tat] 7%104 • • t i • in t .4* I i , i I• A I t, i ..Y I, ' 1 '", • , _ r . 1 ... 1 • i 1 , 11 ' , 1 . '' ,i, , 11 ~ , lof the principle, would cu, re expense of his judg- Mr, RANKS did not believe the Bill would an. arnmunications with the saver its professed objects, particularly solar as re- garded litigations. , gbt it incumbent upon Mr. S. NURSE observed, that by agreeing to • 1 meat did not bring fix- the present Hill, the cause of litigation would be of . . ilar nature on or before tirely done away. hen submit his motion Mr. GORDON had heard of men seheitad pro- fessed to have entemd deeply into the amelioration I te rtioN BILL, of the Pobr Laws; but he had not found any beret I, was again presented to as yet derived by the Public from those vagulk six, . • / WI: moved, that it be culations. . . , . ~ Mr. FRANKLAND I,RWIfi . approved of the Y took that oppo rtun i t y measure. lie imputed n o bla m e to the unavoidable the law exce4stvg drain delay which had occurred: f.:ct theca .recollect the i' . f.; , e ~ . • •-• ' • - . • . .. . Mi . - !.. • '.....,,,,, A ' • . . J• b4:ow-