Star. — London, England, 1815-03-09 00:00:00

sonseawasouwer....-- e Board of Cannon!, so the Chairman of the East India Di jeetorr., on !armory. 1814. The Report of the Committee on the Citrate of time BIN was riceived and agreed to, and the Bill ordered for a third read- i ins tomorrow. The Irish Exports and Irish Brown Linen Bilis went through• ♦ Committee. The Reports to be received to•tinotttnw. Alderman SMITH presented a Petition against the Corn Bili from the Borough of St. Alban's, which had been signed by nine out of ten of its inhabitants. Ordered to lie on the table. Mr. TIERNEY presented a Petition against the Corn Bill from the City of Worcester, on account of the rapidity of the Parliamentary proceedings on this measure. It bad been left open only three hours for signatures, and in that dine bad re• ceived 8,000 Ordered to lie on the table. Sir SAMUEL. ROMILLY presented a Petition from !Brea, in 'Yorkshire, against the Corn Bill, signed by 3,200 persons. CARLISLE PETITION. d i Mr. BARING held in his hand a Petition from the City of Carlisle, signed by between five and 6000 persons, almost the whole population of the place an 1 its neighbourhood. Unlike the rest of the Petitions presented on the same subject, it contained two prayers. The petitioners seemed to think the Board of Agriculture an evil, and though it did not pray for Parliameetary Reform, it expressed a hope that the conduct of Parliament would evince that the state of the Representation was such as to afford protec- Con to the people, by rejecting the measure now in consideration. Whatever was his own opinion re specting the state of the Representation, he entirely concurred with the sentiments contained in the Peti tion, for nothing so strongly proved the want of suf ficient attention on the part of the Legislature to the sense of the People, as the continuance of the Corn Bill, after so many Petitions hail been produced against it. Sir JAMES GRAHAM stated, that the popula tion of Carlisle and its vicinity amounted to 9000, so that the Petition was signed by fully two-thirds of the whole. He concurred entirely with the sentiments expressed by the Petitioners. He would have been satisfied had the protection price been fiend at 725. so as to obtain 80 or 85s. as the average price of the best wheat. In saying this, he spoke.the sentiments of some of the first Landholders in the kingdom with whom he Lad conversed, and who assured him that 70 or 725. would be a sufficient price for the protec tion and encouragement of agriculture. Notwith standing what had been said, rent formed the most material part of the burthens on the farmers. If Landholders would consent to reduce their rents mo derately, and the tythe-owners be satisfied with a fair compensation, in a short time the price of labour, which was already considerably reduced, would fall to one-third of what it had been; was the price of corn alone then to be kept up ? It that was the case, our manufacturers would be driven out of this coun try. If they saw any protection held out to them in Flanders or France, they would and must leeve this eourory. It was urged, that on some kinds of land, farmers could not raise duce quarters of wheat for less than £18; but was Parli ;meet to maintain a high price of grain in order to support them in an other wise ruinous speculation ? If so, we might see Black heath and other barren places attempted to be turned into corn fields at an expellee which could net repay itself without the aasistanee of this MUM/. He would certainly not yield to a popular clamour; nei ther would he pass an unwise Bill, because a popular clamour was raised against it. He implored furthet delay. lie wished that honest Agriculturists and Stuveyors, not employed• for the sole purpose of raising rents, but to regulnte them fairly, should be examined on the protection necessary to be afforded to agriculture. If they fixed on 80s. as the proper price, he would then support it ; but he was now convinced that either 70 or 725. would be sufficient. Mr. FAUSSET wished that the measure should be of a temporary nature. Mr. HAWTHORN at first had thought Ns. too high a price, but having applied his mind to the sub jrct, he had come to the conclusion, that in order to secure to the farmer a price somewhat under that it was necessary to make the protection Ws. What had been said respecting the expence of cultivation, did not apply solely to the new enclosed lands, but to old wheat lands, a great deal of which could not produce without the most expensive manure. Unless the present measure were adopted, much land would be thrown out of cultivation and the price a corn would rise fir higher. Mr. CALCRAFL thought that if lands, which for ten years had been forced into the cultivation of wheat, could not keep in that state without the sti mulus which the present measure would give, it would he preferable they should be thrown. out of culture. He wi,s pleased that the Honourable Ba ronet, a man of great experience, should, after ma tore deliberation, have fixed on the very price which he had proposed. It was a monstrous argument to he4r tile farmers represented as crushed under the weight of taxes and poor-rates, whilst no mention was ever made of the word rent. He wished the House would not enact that which would render the respectable class of the-. Landholders odious in the eyes of the country. After some obi:creations from SW James Gasman, Mr. Meravau, Alderman Amu. And M. SHAW LEFEvnE, who stated, that in the pan ti the country which he had the !umlaut to represeht, wheat had already risen to Ns. a quartet, and was still rising. Mr. DARING explained. Mr. FRANKLAND LEWIS complafned that the mode of taking the average Would deprive the farmers of the benefit which they would derive huh the meanie. Mr. J. P. GRANT stated, that a fall had taken place in the Corn Market last Friday, since which time no great sale had been effected: The Petition was then read, and ordered to lie on the table. Mr PHILLIPS presented a Petition against the Corn Bill s from the Journeymen Taylors belonging to the House of Call, Clare-market.—Ordered to lie on the table. Mr. HURST presented a Petition to the same effect from the town and neighbourhood of Horsham. Ordered to lie on the table. Mr. ROBERT' WARD brought up an Account i s of the effective Or , gth of the Royal Regiment of Artillery and Pion s. IQRATION. Mr. HORNER asked information of the Chan cellor of the Exchequer on a subject connected with the consequences of the Bill which was now passing through the House ? He wished to know whether his Majesty's Ministers had already proceeded to give encouragement to the emigration of Mimi; so bjectf. Ire held in his band a public advertisement of a per. Ann in •Scotland, representing himself as an autho rised agent, and stating that it was the intention of Government to encourage settlers from this country and Ireland to pass over to his Majesty's eplonies in North Americas . , ant that be should provide them with ships. Herequested to know whether this state. , went Was correct, and any instructions had been is. sued by Government to afford encouragement to emigration ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied, that he could not give any information re specting this particular adverti sement but that it. was In his Majesty's Government's contemplation to divert emigration to the United States, by encou raging it to our own colonies. Mr. HORNER then stated, that on an early day he would move for particular information on this subject. CORN LAWS. Mr. ROBINSON having moved that the Report of the Corn Committee be brought up, Sir GILBERT HEATHCOTE, after some ob servations, in which he alluded to the speech of an Honourable Member (Mr. Yorke) which he had not heard, but which he understood represented agricul ture as far more important to the country than the prosperity of our manufactures, moved as au amend. meat, that the Report be brought up this day six months. Mr. YORKE denied having made use of such language respecting the manufactures of the country. Lord NUGENT rose to second the amendment. He said, that on the same grounds on which the other night he had voted against going. into a Com mittee, he now should give his hearty and decided vote against receiving the Report. Under an im pression of the difficulties with which the question was surrounded, and the importance of the interests involved, be had not without some hesitation arrived at a decided opinion by which to direct his conduct. But the question, as it now stood, involved other considerations besides those of the ultimate expe diency of the legislative measure. He thought the question had been hurried through the House, up to Its present stage, in a manner indecorous to Parlia ment, and injurious to the People of England. Oa la question of such intricacy and such importance to our commercial as well as landed inteicA, time ought to have been given to Members to instruct and satisfy their own minds, so that, even should they be disposed to concur in the necessity of the Bill, they might have means and opportunity to occupy and re concile, the wishes and feelings of their constituents. No such opportunity had been given, and the Bill had been hurried through with a haste ill becoming the importance of the subject or the gravity of Par liament.—(Near, hear, hear!)—The people of Eng land were at the doors; he meant not in riotous and tumultuous meeting, but in respectful, constitutional, and rightful remonstrance—by way of petition.— (liear.)—This was not a moment for hurrying such a Bill, or for running, as it were, a race for time against the petitions of t he people. He trusted he was as little disposed as any man who heard him to concede any thing to the outcry of a mob; which was as contemptible at it was violent. He hoped that he felt as strongly as any man, that the elf4lU. rations of the House, to be useful to their country, must be unbiassed and untimidated; and that he never would compromise the freedom of so important an agency. But, on the other hand, as an humble individual sitting in that House, he could nct con sent that the people of England should be thrust from the Bar without time for petition, nor that the voices of those by whose franchise Gentlemen sat there should be unheard or disregarded.—(//ear.)— Besides this view of the subject, on which he mainly and readily rested bis vote, there were several coins. derations on which he should pause, both as to the justice and the policy of the measure. He thought that it was imposing a high standard price on an ar ticle, which, as it had fluetuated under the burthens and chances of war, so would it under the influence of peace find its own proper and natural level. The measure would, he thought, encourage to an alarm. :ng extent, emigration among the middling orders, particularly among manufacturers, who would export arts, enterprize, and hand's to those countries where sustenance was cheaper, and the wages of labour corresponded better with the means of life.—(lfear.) He thought no case had been made out to convince the House that this minimum standard would have the ultimate effect of keeping corn at a more mode rate level ; but he was convinced that the immediate operation of it would be the reducing the labouring class to a more wretched dependance on parochial assistance than the Poor Laws had already placed them in. It belonged to older men than he to reco) i . lect the good days of the English peasantry. The high -and honourable pride which once kept the pea sant from stooping to parochial relief was now ex tinct ; the possibility of his maintaining himself and his family by honest labour was now no more; and laws such at these would perpetuate this wretched change—would make it worse, and bring down a free and gallant peasantry to the abject sutra jof the soil. The English peasantry had don* Mu in our support—had made many sacrifices through It lung, arduous, and, at one time, nearly hopeless war. We had animated their exertions, by bidding them look to the blessings of peace, whenever, under Pao. emetics, peace should arrive. They had abided with us, and for us, " the pelting of the storm."— The storm was overpast, and what is the poor man's reward in peace ? What are the blessings of peace to the poor man ? Do they consist in a lower price to bins for his luxuries or his pleasures ? No.—ln the low price of bread. How do you render the blessings of peace•intelligible to k poor man's mind ? 13 talking to him of a lower price of his daily bread. (Hear, hear.)—And now we barbarously and insult ingly tell him to enter with us into an abstract and distant speculation on a standard price of corn, which begins by raising it, and by placing him for ever a wretched dependent on the loathsome bounty of a parish overseer. lie had never given a pore cordial or eager vote than the one he should siyeicar the nourable Baronet's amendment. Mr. DOUGLAS gave his complete acquiescence to the principle of the Bill, but rather wished for a lower price. He had no hesitation in saying that the peasantry of England were not inferior to these the most favourer! countries. Agriculture had done more for commerce than commerce for avi culture. Much agitation would ham:been prevented, _ hail the idea of Omit& *amity seen entettained.— The object of the measure, he coneeisu4 . wouldsbe to create a Permanent defence against the evils of fatnir. Mr. PHILLIPS maintained the contrary positian, that it was commerce din had stimulaned epic '- Wm, and not agriculture commerce. He didiint see iii what way this restriction was to poduce cheap ness and permanent plenty. If rents were naturally and justifiably high they might be supported, but no artificial means Amdd . be adopted to keep them in a stale of undue rise. He thought all the praise be stowed on agriculture had been lavished with the view of depreciating our manufactures. He should regret that die Bill should become a law. It would then be necessary for the advocates of the measure, however, to use the best means in their power to al. lesiate the ferment which it had excited. Mr. WELLESLEY POLE expressed his entire satisfaction at the manner in which the measure had been breught forward by his Honourable Friend.— After all that had been said in the House it was im possible not to feel that the price of eighty shillings was necessary to supply our own market. He was of opinion that the measure should not be clogged with any intricacy of average. He proceeded to argue, that though rents had doubled within the last twenty years, landholders should not be asked togive up one quarter of their incomes. If they did give up so much, where would manufacturers find a vent for their manufactures ? If the Bill should pass, the agriculture of Ireland, which had of laT yemsllon tithed so much, would in a little time supply the en. tire demand of this counsry, and it world take this country's manufactures in return. The measure would prevent the fluctuation to which the country, in case of depending on foreign corn, would be sob ject from without, and would give confidence to the farmer within, He therefore hoped the House would give up no part of it. The measure had been three years under discussion. No number of Petitions, no clamour outside of doors, would make him alter or delay it, for he was confident that would prove most highly beneficial to the country. Sir MATTHEW RIDLEY said, that from the two Reports on the table, it was clear that there was an absolute necessity for some measure. The only question then was, as to the extent of the protecting price. He considered the price now fixed too high, and was sure that the liberal Landlords of England would make that reduction on the rents which cir cumstances would require. Mr. METHUEN said that the measure ought not to be hurried, for the numerous Petitions which had been presented on the subject, deserved, at least. that it should be proceeded on with deliberation. There was a difference between clamour and mob, and the people constitutionally expressing their voice on a measure. By the former he would not be at all swayed ; to the latter he would pay every attention. Mr. CALCRAFT said, that so many new cir cumstances had intervened since the reports on this subject had been made, that there was ample ground for tardier consideration. He combated the Right Hooourable Gentleman's (Mr. Wellesley Pole) as-. sertion, that the measure had been three years under discussion. Had there been peace three years ago ? had the price of labour fallen three years ago ?-...was the Property Tax taken off three years ago ?-a-how, therefore, could a measure applying to those circum. stances be under discussion three years ago ? He agreed with the Right Hon. Gentleman that Ireland ought to have the monopoly of this coun:ry as far as was consistent with the general interests of the Em pire. But he was convinced 7th. WAS a sufficient pro tecting price for Ireland as well as fur England.— Corn was raised cheaper in Ireland than in England, and of course what was a sufficient protecting price , for the latter must be fur the former. Agticulture should have a sufficient protection, but not too high for other things. Rents must fall and they ought to fall—high rents proceeded Irvin high prices, but when the high prices fell, the reins ought to fall. A man would be as well off ‘‘ith a low income when prices were haw, as with a high income when things were high. The intent of the Bill was to clinch the resat' high rents. if prices tell, neither farmer nor labourer would suffer by it. The consequences of the 13dt would be to raise the price of proviiions to the agricultural labourer in a higher degree than his wages, and how could such a measure be said to be a benefit to him ? As to Ireland and Scotland, wheaten bread was not the subsistence of the lower classes of the people of those countries. Potatoes formed the food of those of the former—oaten bread that of the latter. He thought the numerous peti tions presented against the measure deserved atten von, and though he would be far from being at all influenced by those mobs, wh:ch he considered so dis graceful and so injurious to the cause he had under taken, that the voice of the people constitutionally expressed ought always to have its weight. If he had nothing but the base and disgraceful conduct of the rabble of London to consider, he should leave the House without saying a word farther against the measure—but when he considered the general im portance of the subject, he should attend to it to ; the last. Mr. CHARLES LONG was sure. that if any class were particularly benefited by the measure, it would be the poor. lithe farmer did nut get a suffi cient price for his produce, he could not employ la bourers, nor pay his rent, and then the manufacturer would hare uo one to buy his manufactures, and consequently could not employ the poor. Rents were not, generally speaking, exorbitant. Rests held only the same proportion to the manufactures now as tkey did twenty years ago. He could not consider that there was any precipitation in passing this 13111. There were many would probably stilt speak on the question, and lie did not suppose they would bring many new ideas to it. How then could a subject, which had been so discussed as to be extremely ex hausted, be said to be precipitated ? He thought that 80s. was not too high a price, and should there fore support the measure. Mr. ftIARCHBANK said, that if the Bill did not pass it would be destructive to those farmers who had laid:out great capitals in the improvement of their lands. Mr. CALCRAYT and Mr. MARCIIBANK explained. Mr. FINLAY was convinced that the price WAS too high, and should therefore vote for the amendment. Mr. HUSKISSON said, that when the Report was brought up, surely it would be competent to any Member to propose say lower price, and he therefore wished that the Report may be recomMittikl ; but if the athenetment was can ted, a lowa- prii4 could re be proposed. Mr. FINLAY said a rew Bill cruld be: hrretelit i t Mr. TIERNEY said that he s'e old deity' y t ee Otte could to prevent rapidity in passing tire measure . If Gentlemen would say that the report should t reed mild pro forma, he would consent to it ; but i they meant only to gain one step by pyieg armaments could be hereafter proposed, be and , oppose it in every stage. Mr. PRESTON said, that a less price would b only deceiving the House and the country. to Mr. BARING said, that he %multi consent e withdraw the Amendment if Gentkrinen sy ee i pledge themselves that the Report should be pull I read pro forma. But as he could not srppnee dee t! , would agree to so gracious a measme, he we e le sist on dividing the House. No former ne: eeee this description had been so preci o ;. *1 ' . (.113t; Corn Bills had been printed, and left fur the purpat e of collecting the sense of the country. Mr. CHA RL ES FORBES thought SOs. too high ; and should therefore vote for the Amendment. ' A division then took place, when tl nun:!,e% were—Against the Amendment ItiB-I'or it Majority_ 1 IS.. On our re-admittance into the gallery, we found Mr. BARING complaining of the precipite: ,n tw ith which the Bill was attempted to be hureied l'eceu g h the House. He said he would prefer a ptotect,ou tt; out' agriculture by a duty on. foreign, rather than by prohibiting it. By the latter we would rut money into the pockets of foreigners; by the farmer us weuld give it to our revenue. Ministers tirons,-in ;n the BM fi r the purpose of catching a litt:k !meal. city-- (No, no, from the Treasury beeches): They did not ? why, then they disliked popularity.' lie had spoken to several men of information outside of on the subject of the Bill, and they all aetteJ, that a protection to our agriculture by duty of ((reign corn was far preferable. Why then such hurry i The county of Wiltshire, he believed, met on this very day to petition against the Bill. The. petition he had this night laid on the table from Carlisle had not half the number of signatures that would be af. fixed to it had there been time. The reason, the Mi. nisters give for this precipitation is the ferment of the public mind. The disturbances in Westminster he considered very disgraceful to the Police Ma4ivr There WAS gross neglect on their parts. ';lie win• dows of the President of the Board of Trade, he L. lieved were sactificed to it. There was pert/et trate quality in the City, where a petition againse the oil. noxious Bill had been signed by, seventy ire eighty thousand persons. Even the meeting of Weserninster on the subject, had been perfectly orderly, The Ho. nourable Gentleman went on to obset ye, the* he left as great an anxiety as any man in that Heue. , to pro mote the prosperity of Ireland ; but the itt its present form would certainly be a curse to thgland, whatever it might be to Ireland. As a land's!. pro prietor, he cared not one sixpence about the price of his ants, provided tl:e .enants were good. if this country were confiaed to its own growth, a tome]. failure in the crops might be calculat d tipor toner in every three years; a fact 'which cxperielce had proved to be the average et deficient prodite. We tbeeefore could not depend with any degree of cer tainty upon our own supplies ; and 'unless 'ftweige corn were to be allowed to time in with literality. we.should never be able to command ; times of scarcity. He concludtei with Aiervingethat would not have risen if be had not wish e d t i i ntreat the aerie not to shew that precipitatrey in tmilig rid of the measure, which was actually like die ope. ratioa of cowardice in their minds at die prodvedings bat had taken place out of doors. It wee unjust towards the public thus to persevere night al+ et e ht in hurrying off the measure. What he would recom mend would he to let the Bill go through all ie stages with time for full deliberation. He .chuul., therefore move, that, instead of ts now," the be further considered on the first Monday all the E ester Re:e's. Mr. ROBINSON said, that as every third which had been dime by him had been grossly taisrerre sented, he would not suffer any statement which cen sured the part he had taken to pass cannot red or 111,- refuted. He desired to know what the lionounds:e Gentleman (Mr. Baring) meant by the asserti , •::, that he (Mr. Robinson) had sacrificed tl,e list ivy:- rests of the country for the sake of catching a little popularity ?—( Loud cries of Hear, hear.)--ithat had done in preferring a prohibiting price to a duty, he knew to be for the best interests of the country ; and he repeated, that he called upoa the Hon. Gan tienrm to explain hi meaning. Mr. BARING explained, that so far fiat consi dering the conduct of the Honourable Gentleman in any personal light, he had made no allusion Ihatever to him in that way. He had merely stated, that i: was the generally prevailing opinion, that a duty would be preferable to a prohibitory price. He would say, that he apprehended his Majesty's stets, in bringing forward this measure, :sad bt;, , - posed that the word duty would be misuasiersto:d and unpopular. Mr. ROBINSON rejoined, that as the Honourable Gentleman had said that his remarks were not merit to apply to him as an individual concerned in briag ing forward the measure, he had not a wish beyoul such an explanation. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose with much warmth to repel die insinu.itiont. the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Baring) respec:;n; the cause of what he called I.recipitation. When i.r heard the conduct of the House censured as inde cently precipitated, be would repel the charge with that degree of firmness which every Member imp to show upon such an occasion. If the House. ft the course of the consideration of the Bill been them, had made any great alteration in the plans of his Honourable Friend, so that they appeared &E.:• rent from their original state, there might have bi•r. some reason adduced for procrastioation; but as the had not been the case, he did not think that any I): cessity existed for delay. He therefore trusted the House would nat suffer themselves to be taunted in the insinu.stion of cov►ardice—(Leer! aid law contouh , chseriser)—and be thus induced to defer bringing t:. question to an immediate conclusion, or at feast n settle it with all possible speed. He world &nil) deny that the House bad been at all influenced 3) the disturbances about which soauuch had been sari but•he would not deny his apprehension On; any can necessary print action of the measure might kodtingc I