Star. — London, England, 1801-03-19 00:00:00

PARLIAMENTARr PROCEEDINGS. HOLnE OF LORDS, WEDNESDAY, MARCH zB. Several Anent Cauf.s from Scotland were fet down for hearing. A Peer took the oaths and his feat, and the private Bills were (racially read. The Tax Billc were each forwarded a ftage, and appointed Or their further progrefs to-morrow. ADVLTERY. The Marquis of Bjciiiic HAM obferving that the magnitude of the crime of Adultery rendered it neceffary to counterata its progrefx, and prevent the extent of its mitchiefs, it therefore became ur gently requifite that the Legiflature fhould inter pole its foray, and convince the world that they were refolved to afTert the moral and religious rights of the marriage Bate. For that purpofe he had fignified force time fince his intention of in troducing in the Divorce Bill, which Rood for to morrow's confideration, a claufe to the effeEt he then mentioned, with a view to engage and porrefx the attention of their Lordlhips, as well as to give that countenance to the meafure, which Kap nroved) a full attendance would fecnre. He hoped it would not trefpafs upon the confideration of the Poufe, notwithaanding the order for their Lord. ihips to he fummoned for Friday, that they fhould be alfo fummoned for to-morrow, when this 'ma cure was'to be agitated. • To this the Houfe appearing to agree, his Lord chip moved that it be fummuned, which being or dered, they adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. Ji rrrrr s obtained lea♦e to bring in a Bill for the re lief and the better employment of the pi or of Coventry. lad Pots, Lord TilIrLE, Mr. jouas, and a great many other Members, were excufed front attending on the i4th of ApriL The &LAKER laid, that as Friday was the lan day for receiving private petitions, there would probably be a great deal of private bufinefs for that chty and to-morrow. He fhould therefore on both days be ready to take the Chair exaftly at two o'clock, and he hoped there would then be a fuffi cient number of Merabers prefent to enable hint to take it. GA loud cry of bear ! hear!) Mr. PiERREPO mr then role, in purfuance of the notice he had given on a former evening, to fub mit a motion to the Houfe with regard to the number necetrary to conflitute a quorum. He would not have prefumed, he laid, to have in truded upon the attention of the Houk, had it not been from a conviftion of the importance of the cubic& to which he now requelled them to attend. Since he had had the honour to fit in the Houfc of Commons, though he had fometimes feen the Houk-tolerably well filled, he had often fecn it al. mon completely deferted. The benches often re mained empty when queflions the mon interefting and important were under difcuffion. It had fre quently happened to him to come down to the llonfe, and to find to his extreme mortification that an adjournment had taken place from there not having been a fufficient number of members prefent to enable the Speaker to take the Chair. From the premature departure of members, it ftiii more frequently happened that the Houfe was ad journed while bnfinefs of the greaten importance remained unfini(hed. The molt confcientious members feemed to think that their duty to tlieir contlituents was difcharged, if they (hewed them- feives for a few minutes at four o'clock. Hcmorc particularly adverted to the difgraceful cireum fiance of the Houfe having been counted out four fucceffive days, while, confidering of meafures tee alleviate the diftreifes of the poor, and notwith ftanding an order that no member thould leave London. The Honourable Gentleman cenlitred this cards:net% in terms which it would not perhaps be fafe to repeat without the walls of the Houle. How the Reprefentatives of the People could re concile to their confriences this, ihameful deieliaion of duty he profeffed himfrlf unable to conceive. He had not been able to find in any record a nand log order upon the fubjeft before the time of Charles 1. yet from the hinory of the preceding reign there was every teafi:n to believe that an or der exifled timilar to the one he now meant to pro. pore. On the xoth of April 1607 it appeared from the Journals that no bufinefs kad been done, there not being more than o:reel - coil members prefent. On the 6th of January 5640, it was ordered that Mr. Speaker fhould not take the Chair unlefs there were forty members prefent ; but the Houle then only confined of 429 members. Since that period one hundred and Sixty-nine members had deco added to it, 24 from England, 45 from Scot land, and too from lreland.—Therefore, admit ting the wifdora of that Order at the time it was framed, it ought now to he altered :—its principle lhould he adhered to, and the fame numerical pro portion of the Members now obliged to be prefent. It eras, however, his intention to go a little far ther, and to propofe that, unlefs fixty were pre fent, the Speaker thould not take the Chair.— He could not conceive that there would he any one fo unreafonable as to objeel to the propofal. This was not one-elexenth of the whole body, and net a fixth of the members who, during the Sef fion of Parliament, retitle constantly in London. It was very much hi; with to avoid the mention of any thing extraneous; he therefore fhould not (peak of the war and of the taro.... But he could not help laying that, if the fitu::tion of the Coun try was filch as to render it necelfary for every man to contribute a tenth of his income, the pen. pie had a right to require th,t a tesit'a of their Re prefentatives fhould he prefent before their hui tens can be increased. He could not fuppole that Gentlemen would tail: of their perfonal conecni ence.—They had come under the moll folemn en gagements to their Cr.nflituents, and theft they ere bound in the moll sacred manner to fulfilk quenit n involved the 'dignity of the Houle of Commons and the general intereftc of the Country --Mr.Pi-rrepoint concluded by moving,that I.,rtli Mr. Speaker thaa not take the Cl; ur.til there are 60 Meniher, lircf nt. Mr. JAlklf• MiRTI% Paid, it gave him gr: at Tie:duet- to feconti this motion. and he was f..re it would Le car:itd if the Houlz Lad any regard tu • prepr::ty and dc‘urcun. Mr. MUG GE laid, the motion of the Honoutableo Gentleman had nut the leaft conneftion with the complaint he had made. The evil was, that Mem bers did not continue till the riling of the Houfe ; but this could not be remedied by rendering the attendance of all the 658 Members to the Speaker's taking the Chair. The diligence and perfeverance of the Honourable Gentleman were well known, and deferved the greateft praife ; but his example was calculated to be of greater efreft than his mo tion. He certainly had a right to appeal to the feelings of the Houle; but if that was not fucceff ful, he muff not hope to fucceed by Inch a propo fal as this. He repelled the imputation of negli gence and indifference thrown upon the Houfe by the Honourable Gentleman. The non-attendance of Members was merely a proof that they difap proved of the meafures then under dittuflion. They often found it better fluently to ccnfure them than openly to oppofe. No Bill was ever palled on which the Houle had been often counted out. In fome Ilage or other every public meafure was fully diftuffed. Forty was fixed upon, not as a numerical proportion, but as a luflicient number to prevent furprife, and this it was whether the Houfe conlitted of 200 or of 2oco, A (landing Order, fuch as that propofed by the Honourable Gentleman, would only harafs individuals, without being of any advantage to the public. Mr. Joxt s laid, he was in hopes that this Mo tion would have been agreed to unanimonfly. After a few general oblcrvatiuns on the import ance and expedient/ of it, he laid he held in his hand a lift of divifions which proved the difgrace ful marmer, in which the bufinefs of the pub lic was neglected. For the repeal of the Habeas Corpus At there were 113, againft it 14. In dividing on the Income Tax Bill the ayes were 45. the noes 9. Gentlemen might laugh, but it was a pretty ferious thing for the fubflance of the na tion to he voted away by 54 ipdiViduals. For the Forfeiture and Trcafun Bill there appeared only 57, againft it 8. On the Motion for a Negotia tion with France there were 59 noes, and 8 ayes ; and on a Motion for a Call of the Houfe, 27 to 124. On the gth of June laft ten Members had palled ten Bills. Though nine taylors were laid to make a man, nine Members were certainly not fufficient to make a Houfe.—Againft a motion for Peace-there were 38, and his Honourable Friend, and he who were for it, had nobody to count but thernielves; and what was worfe, on the laft day of the Seflion his Honourable Friend had renewed this motion for Peace, and then had nobody to be joined to him as a Teller. Mr. Jones dwelt with great warmth upon the impropriety of the Ex-chancellor of the Exchequer adjourning the Houfe for three months, when there were five mil lions of um ! ,:propriated money, ,and called upon Gentlemen to agree to the Motion as they regard ed their intereft. Even the country, he laid, be gan to look upon their condlift with great jealoufy and uneafinefs. If it was now rejefted, he fhould reckon himfelf bound to bring it forward again fpecdily himfclf. Mr. DENT was in favour of the motion. The Houfe then divided ; ayes 19 —noes 751. Mr. CHARLES DUNDAS obtained leave to bring in a Bill to extend and enlarge the powers of the Aft of the r3th of the King ; and for encouraging the cultivation of potatoes in open and common fields. Lord WM. RUSSELL and Lord CASTLSREAGH role at the fame time ; and for Come moments each endeavoured to obtain a hearing. Lord William Ruirell at lall laid, that the order of the day for reconfidering the report of the Poor Relief Bill hood firh, and on that account he claimed a priority for it. Lord CASTLEREAGH obferved, that no Bill be fore that Houfe could be of fo much importance as thofe relating to Ireland ; there were two Money Bills, and the Martial Law Bill, which were to continue fimilar Alts paired in Ireland, that would expire on the 25th of this month. This gave rill to a long and animated alterca tion, in the courfe of which Mr. HORNE TOOKE &id, that for the honour and the charaaer of the Houk, he would recommend to proceed firh with the Bill that flood next in order. There was one Bill before the Houle winch was a Bill for taking away men's lives, another Bill was for faving lives—[a cry of order! order!]—" I am not out of order (fitid he) ; I contrive the ellahlifhntent of Martial Law to be giving a power to difpoie of people's lives ; and the other to be a measure to prevent the poor from Itarving.” Mr. NIARTIN (cf Galway) laid, that the lofs .•f a day could be of no confequence to the Noble Lard's Bill ; but he would fubmit it to the Houle whether the Martial Law Bill was not a meafure of paramount neceffity, that the lots of a !Ingle day in forwarding it might occalion the lbfs of the country it was intended to protest. He believed that every Gentleman who Ihould then vote for the pnhponement of the Noble Lord's Bill, would be ready to make a Houfe for him on any other occafton. He could speak for himfell, and afire the Noble Lord, that he would attend with plea lure. Mr. CUMIN was for giving priority to the Poor Mr. Pa !flu fall, that if any Gentleman could cnfurc the attendance of 40 Members, it was f.ric of the Minifters on the Treafury Bench ; and therefore they could bring any of their meafures forward at any time without the danger of loling it ; but as that was not the cafe with the Noble Lord (W. Ruffell) would vote for giving pri ority to his The Houle then divided—For the pollpone . ment of the tirfl ord.r fc.Kl—againfl it 47. The Ronfc in a Committee then went through the two Intl Money Bills. Mr. Wm. DUMDAS %Wilted, that an Hon. Gentle ' man would put off his mo tion ,vhich flood forto morrow, relative to Egypt, on account of the on nvoidable abfence of a Right Hon. Friend of his (Mr. Dundas.) Mr. JON Fll wifhed the Min 7 fters to fume a s!: , y. Mr. Vs's,. I)usnAs obi - erred, that the lion. Member might give his )ticc to-morrow. The lima's: went into a Conattittee on the Pill ft,r the further cwair.uistion of certain trifh which were to expire on the 25th of March; after which the Chait man reported progrcfs, and obtain ed leave to fit again to-morrow. The Houfe went through a Committee on the Bill for the further Sulpenfion of the Habeas Cor pus An in Ireland, and the report was ordered to be recci'•cd to-morrow. MARTIAL I.AW IN IRELAND. The Houfe then went into a Committee on the Martial Law Bin, and the claufe extending its du ration to three months from the 25th of Match next was agreed to. Lord CASTLEREAGH fhortly Rated that, though he was perfeelly convinced that no court martial had ever fat which was compofed of fo fmall a number as three, and though he was perfuaded that it would be more expedient that this, as well as all other particular regulations, fhould be fettled by the Lord Lieutenant, refponfiblc as he was for the manner in which he employed the , power veiled in him by the Bill, he was willing to accede to an amendment for the fake of fatisfying any fcruples which might era in the minds of Gentlemen on the fubjeet. For this purpofe he propofed that the number neceflltry to conßitute a court martial fitting under the terms of the AiFt fhould be increafed to feven, and that two-thirds of this number fhould in all cafes be neceffary to lane tion the execution of the fentences of courts mar tial. He did this, not becaufe he was inclined to believe that it would give any additional eternity to the conflitutional exercife of the Aft, or that lie was difpofed to allow that, in any cafe, the fen tences of courts martial under the Bill had been , executed, except on an unanimous judgment. He did it folely with the view of doing away any dila- greeable impreflions which the claufe in the Aft rendering three fufficient for a court martial was calculated to infpire. The SPEAKER thought that the Committee had no power to make amendments on the Bill, but were merely to come to a refolution on the conti nuation of its feveral claufes. Any amendments, he conceived, ought regularly to be propofed when the Report'was received by the Houfe. Mr. M. A. TAYLOR conceived that the amend ments would be difcuffed with much more advan-' tage in a Committee, and therefore fuggefted the propriety of reporting progrefs, and afking leave to fit again. This fuggeftion being acceded to, the Houfe was refumed, progrefs was reported, and leave was obtained to fit again, with liberty of making amendments on the Bill. The Houfe accordingly was a fecond time re (dived into the Committee. Mr. GREY faid, that his objeCtions to this mea fure were fundamental and infuperable, nor could he ever, on fuch evidence as had been offered to the Houfe in fupport of its neceffity, confent to fanftion a fyftem of cocrcion which was to put the People of Ireland out of the reach of the protec tion of the Conftitution. Thinking, however, as he did, of the meafure, he felt it to be kis duty to endeavour to introduce fuch amendments as would render it as little as pofßble offenfive in its opera tion. He therefore approved of the claufes pro pored, but did not think they went far enough to meet the ends propofed, nor did he conceive that the Noble Lord, in bringing them forward, had fufficiently followed up the principles on which the Mutiny Aft was founded. He raw no reafon . wh i r there fhould, in the cafe of this Bill, beany depar tme from the principle on which that Aft was framed, refpeCting the number of whom a court martial was to be compofed. In no part aids Majcfty's dominions in Europe, was a lefs number than 13 neceffary to conftitute a court martial, though in Africa and South Wales, from cirenm 'lances peculiar to them, not a greater number than five might fometimes fit for the trial of de linquents. linters, therefore, the Noble Lord could Phew that there was fomething in the (tate of Ireland which juftified the appointment of a number (mailer than that fixed by the Mutiny Aft, lie would maintain that the regulations which it contained fhould be adhered to. On this prin ciple he fhould move as an amendment, that no court martial fitting under this ASR fhould confift of fewer than t 3 individuals. Mr. GREY then proceeded to enter at confide rale length on the ufe which had, during the two laft years, been made of the Aft, and contended that however great the humanity of the Lord Lieutenant was, this was far from being a fatif faftory argument in favour of the continuance - of the meafure. In a conflitutional view, it was to be withed that the power which the Aft vefted in the Executive Government fhould be exercifed iu its full extent, fence if at its commencement it was ufed with levity, the public might have to con template its dangerous nature. It was however never to be forgotten that a power which might be ufed tyrannically, ought in no in(lance to be granted, except in cafes of ftrong necetlity, fuch as he had not heard produced to the Houfe in flip port of the meafttre. That the Bill was capable of this eyrannical application no man could pre tend to difpute, for by the preamble of the Bill it was enafted that the Lord Lieutenant could, without even a form of trial, take up any per f his whom he firfpefted of rebellion, and infliddeath on them, or any other punilhmcnt which lie judged to be expedient. That the prefent Lord Lieutenant ufed this power with every poi:1161e degree of hu manity he was far from withing to deny, but judging fuch a power to be highly dangerous, he thought another amendment neceffary, that no punithment fhould be inflifted till after the charge had been declared to be proved by a court martial. Mr. Yoitx (the new Secretary at War) argued againft the claofe, which would have for its ob ! jeCt tt. make thitteen neceffary to conftitute a court martial, bee :ufe he conceived that in many cafes it might be difficult to offemble Officers with that degree of promptncfs, which was one grand objett oldie Bill. By making this number tial, he was convinced that the punilhment of the rebellious would be retarded, and there would be a dif..aulty of carrying on the pitbliz fer rice. Mr. Gary, in reply, contended that the incon. venience which in any cafe would refult from ap p)inting thirteen perfons to every court martial, v niithing to be e ta intlie fcale with. the lives . of Brii li t thjrCts, which might ruler by a frna:ler number. He hoped, therefore, that the Com mittee would be difpofed to agree to the amend ment propofed. Mr. Yr)Rita Paid a few words in explanation. The SPEAKER entered into an elaborate legal definition of the meaning of the AEI, and argued that its object was to enable the Lord Lieutenant to execute martial law partially, without proclaim ing it generally over the country. Dr. LAURENCE argued at confiderable length in fiipport of the amendments propofed, and main tained, that as the ASR now flood it left a very dangerous difcretionary power in the hands of the Executive Government. It did not appear to him to be at all aflimilated to the Mutiny A. becaufe the one was calculated to punifh rebellion in tb . field, wheieas the other relied in the officers oftin army, or thole commillioned by the Lord Lieute nant, with a difcretionary power which might be proltituted for the nioft deftruClive purpofes. He reprobated, in kiong terms of condemnation, the idea that the lives and property of Britilh fubjeil. 'Wald h entrufted to the deeition of five indivi duals. Ile had lit:died 1.1:c hiltury el till., country, and he was ready to produce ancient records to the Noble Lord who 'had introduced the nicaltire. • by which it would appear that every city, av y diftriCt, every province exhibited fettles of z ela 1. lion fully as dreadful in their nature as any %illicit the late rebellion in Ireland 1, id ctbibited, yet in none of them had a meatnre oia camplealea to dangerous as the prefent been retorted to. Pc law no reafon why foldiers, who in many inftar ces, cruelly murdered the peaffintry of Ireland. thould enjoy a fairer form of trial than thole who had been guilty of exceffts during the lie:glit c t the rebellion? Why thole who had voluntati:r fubmitted to enter into a Rate which by its did not admit of the rcgular finms of lava should enjoy advantages on a trial which wos efated to 'thnfe on whom a meafure was impoked by fore., which fnperceded the exercise of ail law. The ATTORNEY GENERAL thou3ht that in a queftion for the prolongation of a meafiire, which had been hated to have been proJeaive of the happieft effeCts—which was to be caeicifed by a ' Noble Perfonage, on whole ufe of the power vett ed in him by the meafure, Gentlemen on both fides of the Houfe had fpoken in terms of the warmeD approbation ; and when fo much depend. ed on the ufe which was made of the Bill, there was no ground for fair diversity of opinioa. The ,only demand now made on behalf of the Sjter Kingdom was, that a power which had e.c:: more than any other meafure could have done to the extinction of rebellion, and the encouragement of loyalty, should be continued for three months under the management of a great charaCter, on whofe Adminißration, even calumny itfeif, was unable to attach a Clain. When it was Rated fully to the Houfe that every poflible degree of atten tion had been employed to prevent abufe of the meafure—when it was proved that every decifion pf the courts martial was referred to. future ex amination—when it was proved that in all cafes where doubts as to the legality of thefe decifions had exifted, fuch doubts had been propofed for folution to the higheft legal authorities in Ireland; when all this was made out to the latisfaCtion of the Houle, could there be any rational ground of ob. jeetion to the continuance of the meafure for three months ? Under all there circumflances filch a demand was furely neither unconflitutional nor unreafonable. He could not accede to the propu. fition of the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Grey), that thirteen fhould be neceltary to conftitute a court martial, becaufe he apprehended that in a variety of cafes this might be attended with very great inconveniencies. If it happened that at any time ten courts martial were fitting at the fame time, one hundred and thirty officers would be ne celfary for this purpofe, and this would be far too great a proportion of officers to be (pared from the purpofes of the public fervice. To the opera tion of this meafure, he conceived the Houfe owed their debating at this momcnt,and the prefervation of their rights, their privileges, and their property. The afpeet of the late rebellion, he conceived to be unequalled not merely in the hiftory of this country, but of any country under the globe ; never had rebellion in any former ages difplayed any which, to fuch a degree, involved the deftruc tion of all that is venerable in political or civil fo ciety--of all the focial affections which unite man to man—of all the facred principles which bind mankind to GOD. Having no reafon then to doubt the beneficial confequencesof the meafure,and hay ing no caufe to queftion the humanity, firmnefs, or impartiality of its exercife, he nutted the Houfe would feel it their duty to continue its operation. Mr. GREY was furprifcd at the fury with which the Hor. and Learned Gentleman had fpoken on the merits of the meafure ; but it only ferved the more to convince him that it isnot uncommon for men to have recourfe to declamation in the abfence of reaffining. He recollected a Rory related by Lord Shaftefbury, that acute obferver of human nature, which appeared to him to be very appli ' cable to the prefent occafion—This Rory the No ble Lord further relates of a perfon who was in the habit of attending the courts of law, though with the language in which all its bulinels was tranfaCted he was altogether unacquainted. To thole who remonftrated with him on his conduCt, he replied, that though unacquainted with the lan guage of the orators, he was always able to know who was in a paffion. On the general merits of the meafure on which the Honourable and Learn ed Gentlemen had enlarged, he was at prefent un willing to enter, but if he were difpofed to follow him over thee grounds, lie might reafonably cx prefs his doubt of the meafures of coercion which, during four years, had been employed, when at the end of thefe four years, rebellion and diffiffec ' tion were Rated to exift to fuch a degree as to ren der it neceffary to fufpend all the forms of the Conflitution. The perfonal confidence on which the Honourable Gentleman had infifted, he could not allow to be a principle which any friend to li berty ought to admit or to aft upon in any Le giflative meafure. However great was the cha rafter of Marquis Cornwallis, the Houle ought not to give power of the nature which the Bill involv. 0 1 without a ftrong cafe of necelray, and this cafe