Star. — London, England, 1802-05-11 00:00:00

great work of Peace the inilant they could accom p! h it, and the Treaty was not to be condemned if it was not fo good as might have been hoped, tAr ; it was iiifficjent for them to have done the i.eit that they were able to perform wider the la tnetitable circumfiances in which their predeceffors had placed the country ; and when he confeffed this, jullice to them he (wiled obliged him to con fers it, and not partiality ; he did not by aly means approve the principles upon which they came into office, nor the whole of their conduel flue. His Lordfhip compared the treatment of Portugal by his Majefly's late Minifters, and the ruinous effea of it, with the different effea of the me4fures adopted in raped to Portugal by the Adminifiration in the war of 1763. In the courfe 111 his argument, his Lordfisip (aid, he had been --iiiinderftood on the day of a former argument refpeaing Portugal, when it was thought he was againfl the giving any fublidy to Portugal, he was only a h •rainft the fmalleft of the fums propofed, which he thought infinitely too (mall. Lord Hol. land concluded his fpeeeh with the motion that he had fisted. Lord Pesusis Paid, he could afire the Noble Lord that any information be could with difcretiost communicate, he should be pevfeely ready to give it, but Tome better ground ought to be laid berme the Houfe, in order tort* fuffering an Addrefs to go to his Majefty for a paper that referred to a negotiation between two foreign powers at a for mer period, to which negociation this country was not a party ; he muft, therefore, give his negative to the motion. _ The Marquis of Ssrao rote to take notice of an error into which he believed he bad kim'if fallen, in refpea to what the Noble Lord (Lord Holland) had raid on a former day laft Seffion, when the fablidy to Portugal had been voted. From the general tenour of that Noble Lord's argument, he had thought the Noble Lord was adverfe to grant ing any fubfidy to Portugal at all: he now found the Noble Lord meant merely to objea to the fmallnefs of the firm propofed. With regard to the difference between the Treaty of Badajos and the Treaty of Madrid, he (poke from certain know ledge, and could take upon himfelf to alien, that eicre was not only the difference alluded to refpeet ing the limits of French Guiana, but many other differences.—As to the heft means for this country to hi. of fervice to Portugal, he could tell the No ble Lord that the belt means of affording Alliance to Portugal was for this country to maintain her own honour, her own dignity, and her own inde pendence; for he was convinced there was no good fobjedt of Portugal that did not think his eziftence depended on the ftrength and fafety of England. Lord Gat rc vi Lzz faid, the noble Secretary of State aged wiftly and well in not acceding to a motion for ar Addrels for papers relative to a ne. gociation between two powers to which this coun try was no party. It would be in the higheß de gree indifcreet to grant fuch papers, nor could they be laid before the Houfe without an abfolute breach of the oath dill! King's fervants; hut if they could have been laid before the Houfe, the Noble Lord behind him would have Peen that the greater part of the fags on which he had built his arguments a o'a in ft the Admiuiaration were erroneous, and that t Co far from their having forced Portugal into the war, they bad done all in their power to pre vent it, and to keep Portugal neutral. That (he bad remained perferftly neutral for Come time, and to enable her to do fo, the Britifh Government bad forborne to expea her to fulfil any of her engage ments to this country that in the 'call flood in the way of her neutrality. With refpeet to the treaty of El-Arifch, he begged to fay, notwithftanding the repeated affertions of Noble Lords, that lo coon as the Government of this country had re ceived an official communication of that treaty, they immediately difpatched orders for its ratifi cation. The Earl of Sorroza, notwith (landing the af fertinn of the Noble Lord who (poke laff, denied the faa, and faid he (poke from as good authority as any man could ; that an official communication of that treaty was brought here to his Majefty's ' Mindters, dire& from Sir Sidney Smith, by Sir John Douglas, a confiderable length of time before any orders were difpatched for its ratification. Lord HOLLAND faid, he was amazed that the Noble Secretary of State fhould oppofe the motion, which would afford fo . good a ground to )unify fo much of the Treaty as related to Portugal. It hems as if the foipport of (Fine powerful party, or individual, was to be purchafed at any rifque to Minifters. who were ready to facrifice all the mate rials of their defence fooner than loft that fupport. With re/Lard to the difference between the Treaty of Badajos, and the Treaty of Madrid, the Noble Marquis near him had mistook him—He had not (aid, that there was no other difference bin that refpeeting the French limits of Guiana, but that he believed there was no other material difference between the two treaties. Before he fat down, Lord Holland declared he lhould not take the fenfe of the Houle, but thould neverthelefs perfift in his The Tuition vras put, and the non contents had it. ITALIAN Lord Mt wTO (aid, that in riling to move for the papers of which he had intimated his intention on a former day, it might naturally be expefted that he firould make Tome obfervations on the fubjed to which they referred. He Ihould not anticipate that difcalion that was likely to take place in a day or two on the late Treaty of Peace, upon v !rich he had been, on account of abfence from this kingdom, precluded from giving an opinion when the Preliminary Articles were difcuffed. It was impoffible for him to defcribe to that Houfe the aftoniffiment which he felt upon his hearing the fir (1 account of that Preliminary Treaty. There was not a Tingle friend to this country in Vienna at that time, who was not alto Anniffied ; and whore grief and dirappointment were not equal to their altonifhment. As the information, however, firff came from France, they, in common with himfelf, felt a momentary confolation in thinking, that the account was either totally 'hate and fabri c-AA by the French to anfwer Comet purport of their own ; or that the articles of the Treaty had Leen, much difguifed and exaggerated. But in a Mort time his apprehenflons concerning the dif-, grace and degradation of his country were too well confirmed. At the conclufion of every for mer war this country had maintained her high charaaer, and prefeived her independence ; it was not until the prefent difaftrous period that the fat- Erred the enemy to diaate terms the molt humiliat ing that ever any nation in fimilar circumftances had ttooped to. It could not be called a Treaty of Peace, it was more like a Capitulation to a vktorious enemy on the field of battle, than an agreement mutually entered into by two indepen dent nations; and all this was done, not on a fad den, not in confequence of a panic occafioned by any untorefeen diallers, but after a negotiation that had been carried on near a whole year; and after a feries of the molt brilliant and important fucceffes obtained by Britith valour on the ocean, and on the land. in feveral parts of the world. —Could any man pretend to fay that we were not more powerful than France in ftrength and refources ; that we had not much greater means for carrying on the war, and that a peace far lefs diadvantageons had been called for by any circumfiances of the country. Great as had been his furprize and indignation when he learnt the terms of the Preliminary Treaty—what mutt he have felt when he heard of the fignature of the Definitive, with very little alteration, notwith ftanding the eztrordinaryand alarming tranfaaions that occurred on the part of France between the figuing of both thefe treaties. The firft of thefe was the affumption of fovereignty over the greater part of Italy by Bonaparte. Perhaps it might be laid that fuch nominal fovereignty added nothing to the real power he had previoufly poireled over that country, called the Cifalpine Republic. In anfwer to this he would alien, that there was a material difference between the power he could ez ercia in the one cafe and in the other. He well knew the nature of fuch a difference; and as he never did any thing without Tome ftrong and fe cret motive, it was to be prefurned that he had objeas in contemplation which might not flrike people at firtt view. • Trifling as it might appear at fir ft fight, the very circumftance of his chang ing the name from the Cifalpine to the Italian Republic ferved to develope his plans, and fur nithed ground for alarm to all thofe who walled to prefcrve the integrity of the States of Europe.— While that part of Italy retained the name of Cif alpine Republic, its title would be geographical ly inconfittent in any new mention of territory; but by the change of name, it was put into a growing ftate. Like a child, it was to be confi dered as in the all of encreafing inmagnitude every day, and the new name might be compared to a child's garment, which tome frugal parents have fo contrived, that it could be made wider and wider as the child mould grow up. He law nothing now to prevent Genoa and the neighbouring States from becoming a part of this Republic ; he law nothing to prevent it from running along the whole peninfula of Italy, and then the name of Italian Republic would -be more applicable than it was at prefent. There was another event which took place between the figning of the two Treaties, and to which be thould call the attention of the Houfe. This was the occupation of the Ifland of Elba by France. This might appear to be of tri fling confequence. It was no Inch thing ; the French by this had gained one of the molt im portant ports in the Mediterranean, both as a commercial Ration, and as a place for their 'hips in time of war. There was a fbort communication between it and the principal ports in the South of France, and it would command the Mouth of the Tiber, and feveral other places along the coal of Italy. It did not appear that any remonftrances had been made by our Minifter at Amiens in con fequence of thefe two alarming events. If no ne gociations had at all been carrying on—it all the parties had been in a Rate of profound tranquility, the very circumftance of the greateft part of Italy being added to France mull have been a futficient ground for going to war ; and a fortiori, it ought to have been a ground for breaking off the Ne gotiation. There never was before that time an inftance of one of the negotiating parties having committed fuch a violation of the laws of nations, and of the negociations having Rill gone on and come to a conclufion, as if nothing of the kind had happened. After various other obfervations, the Noble Lord Paid the Definitive Treaty could not be properly difculred without documents relat ing to this fubjed. He therefore moved, " that an Addrefs be prefented to his Majefty, that he be gracioufly pleafed to lay before the Houfe copies of all official communications that were made re lative to the proceedings of the Congrefs at Lyons, ' and theappnintment of the Ftrtt Conful of France to the Prefidency of the Italian Republic ; as well as thofe relating to the occupation of the Hand of Elba by the French." Lord Pli.Ham laid, he would firft inform the Noble Lord that it would be of no ufe to move fuch an Addrefs, as his Majefty's Minifters had received no fuch communications, but as his Noble Friend had gone fo much at large into the fubjed, he might expel to bear fomething farther from him in regard to the tranfadions referred to by him. He would only fay, therefore, that he did not differ much from his Noble Friend in refpea to many of the,points touched upon by him in the courfe of his argument. He admitted that the taking poffelfion of fuch an aggrandifement and Mention of territory as thole of the Cifalpine Re. public and of the Ifland of Elba, during a Nego tiation for a General Peace, was one of the many inftances of the improper conduB of France •dur ing the Negotiation ; but notwithftanding that he admitted this, he, in concert with others of his Majefty's fervants, had thought it their duty to advife his Majefty to figs the Treaty of Peace,fuch as it was. Earl Firzwit.Liaie Aced if Minifters had made any reprefentation againft the tranfation as loon as they heard of it, and what that reprefentation was Lord 11011 ART laid it would be impoflible,if any thing fo irregular was done, as anfwer a mieftion of that nature put acrofs the Houk in an irregu lar manner, without being then driven to the ne ceSty of afwering every other queftion that might fuggeft itfelf to Noble Lords' minds, and there wonid be no need of the betraying of con& dential matters. Lord PELF+ ass raid ' he fhould have con fidered that the tranfaaien referred to, if taken fingly, was not of filch magnitude as to conftitute a fuffi cient ground for war, but it was the duty of his Majefty's Minifters to take all matters into their contideration together. Lord CARYSTORT called the attention of their Lordthips to the declaration juft made by the No- ble Secretary of State. The LORD CHANCELLOR ftrenuoufly defended the refufal to give any reply to the Noble Earl's queftion. He Paid Minifters ought neither to deny, nor confers, whether any reprefentation had been made by them or not, and to meet the queftion of decifion of the Definitive Treaty under that fitua• tion of its circumftances. Lord Gavavit.LE ftrongly reprobated the refu fal of Minifters to anfwer the Noble Earl's quef tion, and contended that they might fairly give a fatisfadory anfwer without any impropriety. His Lordfhip thawed the difference between refuting the papers refpe6ing the Treaty between France and Portugal, in ;797. and faying whether, in refped to the Firft Conful's poieffing himfclf of the whole of Italy, and, by a juggle between him and the Duke of cany, obtaining the Hand of Elba. Lord AUCKLAND fupported Miniflers in their refufal to give an anfwer to interrogatories put to them by Noble Lords individually and irregularly. Their duty limited them to anfwer no queftion, but inch as came before the Houfe upon motion, and was regularly read from the Woolfack by the No ble and Learned Lord.—The queftion was then put, and the Contents had it. DEFINITIVE TREATY. On the Motion of Lord Pausal', the Order for taking the Definitive Treaty into confederation, which flood for Wednefday, was difcharged, and the fame was fixed for Thurfday ; for which day the Lords are to be fnmmoned. Adjourned at halfiall (even. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. Foamy ea moved for the produalon of feveral Accounts relative to the Expenditure of Ireland, which were ordered. The Hoe. Member all moved for an account of the applies. SIM of 334,3684 for the ferviee of Ireland for the year film fpecifying the Vote of Credit under which tech km had ban m kt remarked, that a Vote pi' Credit was a Ref*. lotion of that Houfe, which might be found on the Journals, and no Officer elfewhere amid make any morn upon it.• Mr. FORSTER only &fired to fee the authority under whisk the km Rated in his motion had been lined from the Mk 'fredury. Mr. Corn bid, that the km alluded to by the Right Hot,. Gunk:man had been taken notice of on a former itecaliontg i a a n . Hon. Gentleman ce the oppofite bench(Mr. Robfon), d pilled for his panto& care of the public expenditure. [A bee.] It was in fadt a pan of the fun of two millions Vote of Calt, Gleamed by the late Chancellor of the Exchequer, for the jest fervice of the two countries. Mr Ti differed from the afkrtions of the laR Speaker, that loch a vote as he mentioned had been granted by that Houk. That the Right Hon. Gaetano in opening the lris Budget upon that wallah mentioned that a Vote of Credit for 3cepooL would be neeeSary for Ireland be was ready to admit; and that loch a film was referred to by the late Chancel. for of the Exchequer, in opening the Budget for the prefer% Chancellor, and alfo by the prefent Chancellor himfelf, was not Ids true; but notwitliftanding theft (perches, it was a fad that no vote open the fulled had ever polled that Houfe, which he (Mr. Tierney ) Reed to the Houle in the murk of left &Soo. Mr. Ronson propofed to vote for the Right Hon. Gentle man's motion, though in doing fo he was aware that he was •ot ing for the produdion of a paper which was not in aiftence. General Walpole faid,thit if it Amid appear that this money had been Med in the manner inlinuatel, it would defcrve a vale of =fare. After a few words from Mr. VANSITTART and Mr. FOR. STIR, the motion thus amended, on the fun-taloa Of Mr. Ts , " and nadir what authority the laid fans had heed Med," was agreed to. Dodior Laws.anc a poftroried his motion rrlative to the claims of France and Holland in the Eaft Indies till to-morrow. The order which Rood for to-morrow for the Houle to re folve id& into a Committee on the Clergymen's Refidenee Hill was thfcharged, and the Committee appointed for to-mor row fennight. The Mee west into a Committee on the Scotch Militia Bill, the blanks were filled, the report received, ordered to be printed, and taken Into farther confideradon to-morrow. The Report o(the Militia Pay Bill was received, and ordered to be read a third time to4norrovr. Tle Report of Caautittee oat the Ix Linen Trade Bill was received, and ordered to be printed. The Committee, which was to have fat @pis tomorrow, was pollponed to Friday. Mr. M. A. Tertoa shamed that Mae was a Bill materially aireMft the Privileges of the Hoeft., the Committee upon which coed for today. Had the Bill remised in the fame form as he had Introbsced it, the blanks might have been lilted up without the kaft trouble, but a notice had been given of a Chute which undoubtedly would create a confiderable degree of dire-WM*lst he therefore wilted the order to be poftponed. Mr. Jonas Unarm ezpreffed his approbation of the Bill the Han. Member had introduced. _ Upon timing:talon of the CUANCRLLOII of the Ezcnacunt, the order was poll/weed till Tharfday fennlght. Mr. VAIIIIIITTAIT moved, that the Houfe mould tO.IIIOITOW refs:4w into "Committees upon the Lirtery Licence Ad, the Quack Medicine Duty Mt, and the Agana Sugar BOVOtirA AA. Mr. VASSITTAILT obferved, that by the 7th Geo.lll. e. y. the ftealkai a whole Bank Note was a capital felony, but flee hag half a one was only a milderneanor; he therefo►e moved for leave to being In a Bill to make it felony to take the half of any Bank Note kit lo any letter by the Po& Leave granted. PADDINGTON MARKET. The Sheriffs of London were announced. Mr. Alderman Comas role. and was proceeding to make force obfervations, when the Speaker Rat ed that it was the invariable ofage to admit the Sheriffs of London to the bar. The Sheriffs being admitted, they prefented a petition from the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Common Council of London, praying for leave to prefent a petition againft the ereaion of a certain market at Paddington, which petitioners complain. ed of as an infringement of their Chartered rights, which gave them fuch a power, that no market could be inftituted within fermi miles of the Me tropolis without their perrniffion. Mr. Alderman Comas ',loved, that the prayer of the petitioners Ihould be complied with. Mr. FRIIII oppofed it, conten ding that this mar ket was about to be erected by the Grand Junaion Canal Company, in purfuance of an AR of Par liament palled in the year 1798. Mr. Alderman Comae (aid, that that claufe in the AR alluded to, which authorifed the Canal Company to erea a new market, was introduced in the Committee above Rain, and was not by any means relevant to th e title of the bill; in faiab the right now infilted on was' obtained by a trick. • ~ , Lord Tssests was furpaed that the City Re. prefentatives had not before now taken notice of this fuppofed infratlion of their privileges, at leaft in due time to prefent their petition. Mr. Alderman CURTI s Rated the reafon of th e delay which the Noble Lord profeffed to wonder at, to be this—that the City of London was never apprifed deny fuch right affumed by the Padding. ton Canal Company until a few days ago, wh en an advertifement was circulated, announcing their intention of opening a market. After &me few remarks by Mr. Bragge, Mr. Frere, and Mr. Henniker Major, a divifion took place—For the motion 459—Againa k 27—M a . jority 42. Tile Sheriffs were accordingly called in, and prefented the petition. On the motion th at it fbould be referred to a Committee, _ LORD TEMPLE repeated his charge of remiffnefs upon the City Reprefentatives. Mr. Ls/ s H morose faid, that even admitting ti,c Noble Lord's charge to be juft, yet that arcs 1.4 reafon for depriving the City of London of its rights. He (Mr. L.) believed that if the bill corn. plained of by his conflituents was entirely done away, they would be incapable of refu fi ng their affent to the inflitution of this market, fhould it appear to be a neceffary °Nee of utility. They only flood forward to alert the privileges which belonged to them. Mr. COUETENAY thought the reafoning of the City Members on this fubje& not lefi ilngular th an futile, and hoped they would not influence th e Houle to interfere with the rights of a Company to whom the country owed fo much as that of the Grand JunEtion Canal. The Honourable Gentle- man who (poke profeffed for his coralituents that they would not objed to the in*itution of this market, provided the utility of it were known : and how was that utility to be afceriained, if the ellablifhment of the market was to be refilled ? Mr. FIERY aliened that the Reprefentatives of I.nndon were Wised tobe of the Committee in 1798, who were now accnfed of clandeitinely introducing a claufe refpeding this market. The ATTORNEY GENZRAL confidered thisra quer. tion of fuch importance as ought to be enquired into.—The Houfe divided—Ayes 73—Noes 24 —Majority 49. The Committee was appointed. and ordered to report. NAVAL OFFICERS. Mr. STOILT, adverting to the notice of the Mo tion he had given, relative to the Lieutenants, and other Officers of the Navy, laid, that underftand ing Government had taken the cafe of there &- retying men into confederation, he should think it unnecefary to trouble the Houle upon the fubjea. THE PRINCE 0/ WALE/. Mr. TY ILVIII I TT, alluding to the intention he had announced of fubmitting a Motion to the Houfe, relative to the claims of his Royal Highnefs the Prince of Wales, Paid he was happy to be ably to inform the Houfe that there claims bad at length found their way to a Court of Jtillice. He be lieved it would 4e unneceffary to make any far ther apology to the Houle for the tedious difcuf lion which had already taken place on this fubjetl, than to Rate that the cafe of his Royal Highnefi had lain in the Office of the late Lord Chancellor no lets than fiz years and a quarter, without re ceiving any'Opinion noon it ; it therefore became neceffary few hit RA* Highnef; to leek redrefs through an application Po that Houle. - He (Mr. T.) had little doubt that the opinion of the Tri bunal to which the affairs of his Royal Highnefc were now referred, would be in conformity to the fentiments of thole Gentlemen who voted for the invefligation of his claims in that Houfe. As loon u the judgment of that Tribunal fhould be ob tained, he would take occafion to lay it on the Table of the Houfe, in the firm confidence tha: the generofity oldie Reprefintatives of the People, alive to the call of Jolt:ice from any fob jed, would take fuch means as became their cha. railer. In proof of the zeal of his Royal Highnefs to preferve the reputation of his high rank, he Rated, that fince the ar tips, not lefs than sas,oool. of his Royal Highness's debts had been paid off, not from the Public Purfe, but from the fund let apart for that purpofe, according to the arrangement at that period. The balance frill due gave to his Royal Highnefs the greatefl pain —to be able to fettle with all his Creditors was his ut moft with for he could affure the Houfe, that hi& Royal Highnefs would feel the higheß fittisfataion in difcharging the whole of his debts. MALTA. Lord Haws s sualifaiciit was found that the _ Motion of the Houfe for an Account of the Reve. nue of Malta. while in the poffeffion of our troops; could not be complied with, as in fa& we had no fuch Account in any public office—but the Houle might be furnifhed with an Account of the Reve. nue of that Ifland before it got into the pot effiozi of the French,which perhaps would anfwer as well the purpofe of the Noble Lord. He (hould there fore conclude w;th moving, that this Order be difcharged, with a view to move for the Account he had defcribed, Lord Tatars& had no objeltion to the Motion, as the Noble Lord 'toted that the Account he had moved for could not be produced; but it feemed rather ftrange that Miniiters could be bettor able to procure an Account of the Revenues of Malta before the French took poffeffion of it, than while they had it under their own dominion. The Coamcsssoa of the Escosculat aid, than Minifters felt the utniott will to futon the Houfe with every necefrary information, and their con due in this initance was a convincing proof of their fincerity. The Officer to whom this order was directed, might have returned for anfwer to the Houfe, that no fuch account could be pro duced ; but the conduEt of his Noble Friend was quite different, becaufe it was the defire of Mini tiers to give every poffible fasisfaeion. • Mr. Ft rr did not think it all furprifing thatOo vernment could not finals any account of the Revenue of Malta, while in our poll - aeon—for it was with no view to revenue that our troops cap tured, or that we held that Wand—Revenue, in deed, had nothing to do with the queffion; but the information wlsich his Noble Friend now pro pofed to give to the Houfe was - quite fufficient to enable Gentlemen to judge of the importance and