Star. — London, England, 1825-02-05 00:00:00

■ 1111 M le "k • IN %t PARLIAMENTARY PROCtEDI.VGS. HOUSE OF COMMONS, FEBRUARY 4. Mr. GRENFELL presented a Petition front certain Mer ohants and Shipowners, for leave to bring in a Bin relative to St. 6thetine's Dock, which was read and laid on the table. Mr. KEMP presented a Petition from the Inhabitanu of Brighton, for leave to erect a Chapel of Base.—The Petition was read and laid on the table. General GASCOYNE presented a Petition from the Liver pool Dock Company, which was read, and laid on the table. Mr. BYNG presented a Petition from the Churchwardens and Parishioners of the Parish of Edmonton, praying for a reduction of the Assessed Taxes. He also presented a Petition from the Vicar, Churchwardens, and Inhabitants, of the Parish of St. Pancras ♦ praying for a re peal of the Duty on Windows and Inhabited Houses. Both Petitions were read, and laid on the table. Sir JOHN NEWPORT mov ed for sundry Returns relative to the number of gallons of Spirits, from Corn, distilled in Ireland, from the stit of July, 1790, to the sth of January, 1825 ; the total amount of duty paid each year on such spirits; the number of gal ions exported each year, and to what places exported—Ordered. Lord A LTHORP rose to give notice, that on Tuesday next he should move for leave to bring in a hill for facilitating the Reco very of Small Debts. Mr. PAYNE presented a Petition front the Parish of St. Cle ment, Oxford, praying a Repeal of the Window Tax.—Read, and laid on the table. Mr. BROG DEN presented a Petition from the Equitable Loan Bank Company, praying for leave to bring in a 13111.—Read, and laid on the table. Mr. GREN FELL moved for sundry Returns of the Value of British and Irish Manufactured Produce, and Colonial Produce exported for each of the last three years ; and also for Returns of the quantity of Copper imported and exported for the same period.—Ordered. Sir H. PARNELL rose to give notice, that on the 15th, he should move for leave to bring in a MU relative to Landlords and Tenants in Ireland. Sir JOHN NEWPORT rose to give notice, that on Thursday next, he should move for leave to bring In a Bill relative to the County Rates in Ireland. The SPEAK ER, in reading the usual Orders of the Session, stated that no Private Petition would he received after the Bth day of March; that no Private Bill could be introduced after the 21st of March ; nor any Report on a Private Bill received after the 30th of :May. Mr. W H ITM ORE rose to give notice, that on the Ist of March he should submit a Motion to the House for the amendment of the present Corn Laws. Mr. HV si E moved for sundry Returns relative to the Land Tam, fl* the years Inv, 25, and 24.—Ordered. Mr. tettretary CANNING appeared at the Bar with the Papers relative to the Commercial Convention lately entered into between his tlajesty and the King of Denmark. —Brought up, ordered to he laid on the table, and printed. Mr. M A BERLY rose to give notice, that at an early day he should Move a Repeal of the Assessed Taxes. REPORT ON TDB ADDRESS. On the question that the Report be brought up, Mr. 1-10BHOUSE said, he - could not allow the Address to be brought up, without availing himself of the opportunity to offer some observations to the House. It had so long been the practice to consider the adop tion or the Address in answer to his Majesty's Speech, as a mere matter of form, and that no Member, in al lowing it to pass, was pledged as to the vote he should subsequently give on any subject therein embraced, that he (Mr. Hobhouse) should think it unnecessary to trouble the House at present, were there not matters of the utmost importance introduced into the Address of last night. He was sure, indeed, that there were very few Gentlemen on his side of the House who would not have thought it their duty to enter their solemn pro tests against the Address, had they in time been aware of its nature. For, his own part, so far as he had read or heard respecting similar Addresses, none bad ever deserved more severe animadversion than the present. In the very able and eloquent speech of his Honour able and Learned Friend (Mr. Brougham), last night, he (Mr. Hobhouse) conceived that several topics of the greatest moment had been left untouched, and that many topics which had only been cursorily noticed. Isere still deserving of the deepest attention. His Ma. jesty's Ministers, in the Speech from the Throne, des Glared the country to be in a state of the utmost tram• qutl.ity and prosperity, and that relations of perfect amity--subsisted between Great Britain and Foreign Powers. Now, he would call upon the House to say, whether the measures proposed in that Speech were ac cordant with such flatteringpromises ? If that Speech, and the Address which echoed it, were to be believed, when was Ireland in the same peaceful and flourishing state as now ? and yet the first thing proposed is a change in the penal code of that country—he might even say of this country—striking at the dearest rights ref the subject. Could anything be more calculated to excite the suspicions of foreign Powers, if these suspi cions were of any consequence, or if the Right lion. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Canning) were afraid of such suspicions, which he (Mr. Hobbouse) did not believe to be the case, than the measures now recommended to Parliament? What more could the Right Honourable Secretary hive done, if Ireland were ready to burst into an open rebellion, and the Holy Alliance were marching against as ? It was, therefore, impossible that be could concur in the Address, and he should have expressed his disapprobation of it last night, if the House, after the eloquent speech of the Right Honourable Secretary fur Foreign Affairs lad not manifested a wish to sepatate. Many parts of that speech, however, were more spe cious than solid. The Right Hon. Gentleman said that the Catholic Association was opposed to the interests of the Catholics, and could only be supported by their ene mies. But if so, who in Ireland, among the Catholics, were the dissentients? He (Mr. Hobhouse) heard of no dissentients ; but, on the contrary, that the Catholics were unanimous in upholding that body. He asked the Right HonourableSecretary last night, and he repeated the question to-day, if the Association did not speak the sentiments and represent the feelings of the whole Catholic population of the sister country ? Was the Right Honourable Gentleman's word on that subject to be taken in preference to the proofs of an opposite na ture daily before the Public ? Would the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Plunkett) whom his Honourable and Learned Friend (Mr. Brougham) last night eulogised so highly, say that the Association did not embody the sense of the people at large? And by the way, with respect to that Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman, whatever his talents, he would beg to ob serve, that men ought, in his opinion, to be judged by their acts, and not by their public reputation for parts—(Hear.) It was In vain to talk of persons talents, when their whole conduct seemed to be under the carte of folly. The Right Honourable Gentleman never took up- any thing Which did not fail, nor did he ever take up with any party which was not'glad to get lid of kim. Bet to return; so far from the Association not truly repre senting the Catholics of Ireland, their opinions, wishes, apd feelings—if the public journals were to be believed nothing could be more harmonious and universal than . the agreement between the two. Nay, it not only re presented Ole Catholics of Ireland, but those of Eng• land ; for at the most numerous meeting of English Catholic ever ass woad, their thanks and approbation were Toted to that body. It was certainly on, thing to 441 that the Asioci4pou did not.reprolcat the.Catba lies, and another to say that in the Right ,fionourabli Secretary's mind it ought hot ws represent them. Sot, it would ;eke more than rnerd assertion to convince him' '(Mr. llobhouse) in apposition to facts. If the Associa.: don did not represent the Catholics why meddle with it? and yet such were the apprehensions inspired by mew who were declared to possess no influence, that in his Majesty's Speech an early and immediate resort to means for putting them down is recommended! From all he (Mr. Hobhouse) had heard or could collect, the Catholics of Ireland were never so united and so zealous in their unanimity as at present, and that was what ter rified the Right Honoui able Secretary opposite— (Hear, hear)--or at least some of his friends and co adjutors—(Hear.) So far from the Catholic Associa tion being as it was described, an incubus pressing down the energies of the people, he (Mr. Hobhouse) be lieved the Catholics were never before moved or sus pected to the same degree of activity. They had at last :hewn an intention to sink their petty differences, and they thus struck terror into their enemies. The Association, however, had been called an impel-hint in io, but were it so, even that could not obtain his exHobhouses) unqualified sanction to the Report of the Address being allowed to pass without observation. How long had they not to endure Orange Lodges and many other Associations, some of the latter of which had not only been praised, but supported by those who would now put down the Catholics? He for one, thought, should the measure proposed be adopted, that by such a penal enactment a dangerous inroad would. be made on the Constitution and on the liberty of the subject. He now came to another topic in the Adiress, which had not been touched on at all last night. He meant the augmentation in the army, in consequence of the Burmese encroachments upon the territory of the East India Company. It was certainly a modest request of the Gentlemen of Leadenhall-street, that to protect their empire the standing army of England should be increased; and the whole excuse for that in.- crease, stated in the Speech horn the Throne, was the situation of India, and "other circumstances" con nected with our foreign possessions. Ile really must beg some explanation of what these circumstances were, for the Noble Lord, who so eloquently opened the discussion last night, left the matter nearly as moth is the dark as he found it. That Noble Lord, however, had said, that the increase of the military establish.' meat was not in consequence of the state of Ireland, but alluded to some possessions not very distant from the Mediterranean ; and he (Mr. Hobhouse) supposed this had reference to the peat struggle now pending between the Tusks and Greeks. No doubt it would give the utmost and most genet a ) satisfaction , if the ßi g ht Honourable Gentleman opposite (Mr. Canning) deemed himself strong enough in the Cabinet, or out of it, to in terpose in the glorious cause of Greece—of civilization wad freedom. He (Mr. Hobhouse) had list year admitted that many difficulties encumbered such a proceeding,bot since that time events had occurred, which altered that - opinion. At present, it appeared to him that much might be urged wish reason, and probably with success, on the Ottoman Porte, respecting the Continent and Islands of Greece, which were now free ; and whether the Right Honourable Gentleman looked to the Otto man Empire as a bulwark to our Eastern territory or not—nothing more serviceable to the interest of that Government or of England could o. cur than the recog nition of Grecian independence. It was vain, how ever, be feared, to flatter himself with these hopes, and be should turn to another of the destinations pointed out for the additional military force. The Noble Lord Iwho moved the Address mentioned the necessity of strengthening the army in Canada: and he (Mr. H•h• house) had certainly beard that Ane of the individuals who now aspired to the Presidency of the United States, wets so hostile to England, that Canada might require to be strengthened. He was at the same time ignorant whether that were the fact or not.although such ig norance was not his fault, but the fault of Ministers, who bad not affotded adequate information to the .public. No one, indeed, seemed to know why the aug mentation took place, nor whether it was owing in any degree to the new line of policy which had been adopted by this country towards the Holy Alliance, yet the people of England had a right to know the reason of such a vast addition to our present military force. We had now a regular army of 13,000 men— a body of troops which, twenty years back, would have alarmed all the constitutional jealousy of the nation, and to that number of military a further addition was to be made of some said ten, some fifteen, and some twenty Ithousand men. The House, before it granted or approved lof such a measure, bad a right to ask the purposes to which the troops were destined, and it also had a right to a categorical answer to the question. Was it on ac• count of the occupation of Spain by French troops that the augmentation took place? And here he could not help saying, that lie was absolutely astounded not to find the least notice of that occupation of a neutral country in his Majesty's Speech. Pai liament bad a right to know why the occupation was allowed to con tinue, or was it on that account that the army was to be augmented? We had suffered one of our Allies (Italy), however, to be overrun by the troops of another of our Allies, and no increase followed that proceeding. We allowed another Ally, Spain, to be overrun in the same way, and still there was no talk of increasing our military establishment. But now, because the But man Empire attacked the East India Company, a large aug mentation was to be the consequence. Another topic to which he must advert befog e concluding. He should beg to ask the Right Honourable the Chancellor of the Exchequer, what the expenses were to be of this aug. mentation? although it was not to the pay of the army, but to the army itself, that he (Mr. Hobhouse) objected. Year after year the Chancellor of the Exchequer told the House that taxes would be reduced, and when the Right Honourable Gentleman did produce his plan, it was to be hoped that in redeeming his pledge he would take off first of all some of the dtrect taxes. Much as he (Mr. Hobbouse) approved of a liberal system of commercial policy, he was anxious that the working classes should be relieved from those charges which pressed immediately en their comfort. If, when all the people were in easy circumstances , the restraints on trade could be effectually removed, no measure was more to be desired. But-at present the first thing to inquire was, why the public burthen s were to be in creased? Having trespassed so long on the House, he should not object to the Report being brought up. At the same time be did not concur in any pact of it, but in that which related to the improvement in the re venue of the country, to the improvement of the great interests of the nation, and to the improvement or his Majesty's Ministers—(A laugh). Mr CRESSETT EL AM said, that in allowing the. Address to pass, he reserved the right of freely c anvassing the future measures to which it alluded. The CHANctuon of the EXCIIEgUta had not intended VI terrible the House ore)hei resist °coition, nor should be now ihttude upon it obi:4e a few sniuutecs but after the appeal Which had been made to him by the Hon.Meinher forWnstruinster, he could not airoid rising to offer a brief reply. The Hon. Gentleman had him self furnished a complete answer to his own objections I for be set out by stating, that of late years it was tisol peactice of the House to consider the adoption of the Address as a matter of form, which did not involved any Member in a specific pledge as to the course he' should subsequently pursue. It was therefore a little too early for the Hon. Gentleman to demand a full ex position of the nature and bearing of the measures which his Majesty's Government would hereafter submit' Ito Parliament, and before they were under considera -1 tion to require an explanation of the detailed motives oh which they were founded. He said, Indeed, that when the proper time arrived, no doubt the augmentation of the army would be accounted for, and a statement made ache intended reduction of taxes. It certainly should be his (iheChancellor of theExcliequer's) duty to pursue that course, and at an early day to call the attention of the House to the subject.. The fullest details would then be entered into, and he trusted to the perfect satis faction of Parliament and the nation. Probably it would be more convenient to tile Hon. Member if the explanation were now given, but he thought to others so absurd a course would be attended with opposite results. Yet, although he objected to go minutely into the subject at that moment, he had no hesitation in stating generally, that he expected to be able t 9 propose such a further reduction of taxes as would meet the entire approbation of the public. Last year, when some of his plans were developed, he was told that the pro spect they presented was blank and dreary, and that he inspired but faint hopes of being able to relieve the people subsequently from any material part of their burthens. Ile (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) bad not ventured to meet those doubts by indulging in any flattering prognostics of the future. He now, how ever, had the satisfaction to inform the Home, that the country was in such a situation as would enable Go vernment to proceed steadily in the course it had hitherto pursued, and to afford assistance to the community as a further support to the sound principles which had been brought into partial but successful operation. With respect to the increase of the army, the Noble Lord who had moved the Address bad said that Government did not intend to apply any number of the additional troops in Ireland. This was quite correct, for he did not believe a single soldier more would be sent to that country in consequence. External circumstances called for the proposed augmentation, and when the measure was submitted to the House by his Noble Friend near him (Lord Palmerston), it would be ocean partied by every necessary explanation. The Hon. Member had spoken lightly of the attack of theßurmese On our empire in India, but it was in reality calculated to produce more important effects than might strike a casual observer. It therefore appeared to him (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) that a more proper time would occur for discussing the subject than the present, .when the house merely wished to inform his Majesty, that it would consider the measures recommended to, Parliament. It might, however, be observed, that with regard to the increase intended for India, it was, ac cording to the Hon. Member's own shewing, entitled to l i support, for it arose from a state of war and not of peace. As to the comparison which had been attempted between our military establishment now and twenty years back, he was surprised the lion. Gentleman, who wished to take a philosophical view of things, did not perceivethe essential difference between the extent and situation of our foreign possessions at the two period!. In this country, when the Government required sup port, it was only necessary to call upon the people, and it was obtained ; but in the Colonies the same resort was not acrilable. Would it not then be most impolitic 'to keep the at my establishment on too low a footing ' until the moment that danger arrived? These were a few .of the general grounds which sufficed to warrant , the adoption of the Address ; and afterwards the several topics adverted to could of course undergo a minute discussion. Before he sat dots n he should merely add, that when the augmentation of the army would be specifically brought before the House, the Hon. Gentle man, to judge from what had fallen from hfro,would be 'greatly disappointed at the increase in contemplation. Colonel PALMER said, that notwithstanding the speeches be had heard upon the Address, he rose with 'exactly the same feelings which he stated to the House when last he velituted to address it, and which he must still avow, in the face of all the praises which had since been showered upon theGovernment,and especially upon the Right Hon. Gentleman who had been declared to be its brightest ornament, and -the object of the esteem and admiration of all parties. For, it such praises had been merited, his own opinions were as unjust and illi beral, and he owed it to the Right Honourable Gentle. man, his colleagues, and himself, to defend the lan guage he had held, or to acknowledge his error. And, first, as to the Right Honourable Gentleman; what had been the ground of the unqualified applause bestowed upon him in the last Session by Honourable and Learned Friends, whose talents and political integrity load given the greater weight to their opinion? The Right Honourable Gentleman was said to have done himself the greatest honour by the way in which he had spoken of a gallant Member of the House, because his language had been a severe rebuke to the Governments who had endeavoured to degrade that gallant indivi dual; but if the Right Honourable Gentleman's lan guage had been a rebuke to other Governments, how much greater to his own, who, in the very instance, bad set the others the example ; nor could he help telling i,the Right Honourable Gentleman, as he had told him in the case of her late Majesty, that as a Minister, he would base acted more consistently by the Crown, and by his colleagues, as well as by the interests of the par ties, in defending them in the Cabinet rather than in that House, and by making the adoption of his opinions there, the condition of his holding office. Where, then, in this had been the great merit of the Right Honour able Gentleman, or what the real difference between his colleagues and himself, but that others had acted openly whilst he would conceal his conduct? for, as Foreign Minister, he stood foremost in the Cabinet, the betrayer of his country ; whilst, like Judas, be denied it to the people, and had thought to screen himself by dining with a radical Lord Mayor, or by his brilliant speeches, which, like brilliant tricks,were most admit ed when least l onderstood. If he had misrepresented the Right Hun.' Gentleman he hoped to be set right, fir nothing could , be further from his intention, nor more painful to him- Ulf, than the personal attacks which public duty had compelled him to make; but considering !the Right Hon. Gentleman, as a Minister, the enemy of his corm.' try, the greater his talents and popularity, the mote, "Tte Jangetous he WO, awl the Mote rieteistry to rilspid with, and endeavour to unmask him to the nation. At an actor on the political stage, the Right Honourable. Gentleman stood unrivalled!, both as to the varility of parts he could issuthe, and his excellence in each. But the merit of in actor was no meek in a Minister; for be should appear but in bob character, and that so fait and open as to leave no room to bang a doubt upon ; whilst that of the Right Honourable Gentleman was neither to be found in bis conduct nor his speeches; wherein he always charmed his bearers, and brought down thunders of applause, but as to his real policy, contrived to keep them in the dark. What stronger in. stance than his late speech, wherein he boasted of the applause of the whole nation, to the very echo which ap.i pleads again, whilst be depleted her immorality, and taxed her with being ready to assist Ferdinand to Bunn.; gle infant liberty in Spain. And who but himself could understand his meaning ? Whether as the friend of liberty to etclaim against the baseness of his coun try, or silly as the greater rogue. to cry out first, and reproach the majorities of the House in like manner; but in less homely terms than were said to have been used by a certain kitchen article, when abusing its corn. panion on the fire. The conduct of his opponents in the Cabinet was at east *pen and intelligible, and in fact more wise; they saw the folly of his half mea sures, and the necessity of either abandoning their sys-; tem, or of joining despotism to support it ; in the meantime, between the stools of their contention, Spain bad fallen to the ground; and England, without a change of measures, must fall at last, Never yet did, she stand so degraded and despised in the eyes of Europe and the world as under her present Govern wient, composed of parties openly professing opposite principles, whose mutual jealousy and hatred were no torious to the whole country, and who literally aree.l in nothing but to keep in place at the expense of their own honour and consistency. A Ministry of whom one half were endeavouring to destroy the press, whilst the other encouraged her defenders • who, for instance, had so boldly contended for the freedom of religious discus= sion, and so loudly condemned the Government prosecua tions for libels, as the late Member for Portarlington ?, whoseloss was deplored in the last Session by the Liberals of the Treasury Bench,as one of the most enlightened and valuable Members of the House; whilst the Secretary of the Hume Department declared his feelings upon the subject, by rejecting the prayer of a wretched peti tioner who had suffered nearly fair years imprison ment for a libel not half so dangerous to the system of the Government as the last motion and speech of the late lamented Member. Or what had been the guilt of this offender, compared with the author of a late pod litical history of Ireland? which, in the present alarm. ing crisis of that country, should be read by all who wished for real information upon the subject. lie re membered, at the close of a former Session, meeting a party of the Cabinet at the Caledoni n Chapel, whet e a popular preacher concluded one ef his orations with earnestly exhorting the Ministers present to carry the bible with them to their country seats, to put ify t!..eir - souls during the recess ; but, considering the little be nefit they bad derived from the ads ice, he would re commend the trial of another remedy; of a more search ing nature, which had been expressly prepared for their own case, by the celebrated Captain Rock, being the publication he had alluded to ; and if this should fail to move their consciences, he knew of nothin g but the liquid lake described by their Scotch P astor, that was likely to bring them to a sense of their errors. But however that might be, he challenged them to read and answer this book, which contained a short but complete history td the causes of the present state of lieland, and a true picture of the moral and religions feelings of the patrons of the Bible Society. The great Founder of Christianity reproached the High . Priests and Pharisees of the Jews with being hypo crites ; but what would He have said to the present Gospel teaching Ministers, who propagated hi. doc trines throughout the globe in the teeth of their conduct to that unhappy country ? If further proof were want-. lug, what stronger than the case of the late Missionary Smith ; for who, after all, were the real authors of the insurrection at Demerara ? Not the zealous Missionary ~;* not the unhappy slaves; nor their more unhappy mas ters, whom, he believed, if not for humanity, at least for their interest's sake, to be as anxious to protect their slaves as the estates they worked upon ; nor lastly, did he accuse the Military or Civil Authorities of the Set• Clement; placed by the Government in so cruel a state • of responsibility and danger ; but the Ministers them selves, who, to serve their political purposes, had en couraged these Missionaries in the teeth of their own admission of the folly and danger of their proceedings; for in the last Session they had declared the Missions/ Smith to have been the cause of the insurrecticn, whom the Bible Society had held up as their be,t and most exemplary agent. And what was the truth bowed them ? The Right Hon. Gentleman, with the usual consistency of Ins speeches, condemned the Missionary as guilty, whilst he deeply lamented his fate ; but id justice to the character of the deceased, he should have proved his charge and spared his lamentations, which only injured the accused by their semblance of candour. For himself he believed that no unprejudiced mind could have read the evidence without a conviction of the truth and sincerity of the deceased's declarations of his innocence; that however mistaken in his religious feelings, he had been actuated by a pure and disinte rested zeal in the cause ; and, like the Apostles, in going forth to preach the Gospel, had taken neither scrip nor pane. But in thus defending his moral character from the base motives which passion, prejudice, or cold- . blooded policy had imputed to it, he must equally avow his contempt of all these Bible Societies, which, whether composed of knaves or dupes, were alike falser absurd, and dangerous to the last degree, but connived at by Ministers to corer the still greater imposture of their Government. The Right Honourable Gentleman, to adapt his eloquence to at spirit of the times, and to tickle the Bible Society as he bad tickled his Learned Friends, by his praise of the gallant Member for South wark, had declared the Shibboleth of his policy ; and comparing its treacherous and inhuman consequences with his far-fetched story from the Bible, be could not have kit upon a better word ; but for Isis policy, be had always proclaimed it to be Mr. Pitt's system, or to quote his religious Muse, 44 Elijah's Mantle," which* according to a psalm of his own composing, bad been tried by all, and fitted nobody but himself; and now that at last he had gut it on his back, he found it too old and threadbare to serve his purpose, and instead of re placing it with a new one, was vainly endeavouring to repair it ; but who but himself would patch an old coat with new cloth, in mending his old system with his new principles. of Free Trade, which could not hold to. gether? This fallacy had been well exposed by an Ws --able Member, who maintained that without a re 4N