Star. — London, England, 1815-02-18 00:00:00

• o raise the price of Corn, be would ask, was it humanity towards six millions of the people empire to give to foreigners a preference to them —When the question of humanity were po pit, he thoeght it applied as strongly tp one part girdle catnr• try as to another. He was not 'aware that there was shy - swanky tears* ott MS' 'littera! principle any Longer. He conceived he was addressmi ap audience capable of appreciating the brief arguffients he bad made use of; utfirshonie nor detittf' the Committee with any observations in . detill. The'teneral result, he conceived; was, that &wile intpossibie for us safely to rely on foreigst inipOrtidonal that if we do think we can rely en them, the' cimsectisence• will be, a diminution * of Diar own apicultnrat• ititerem s then when thwfand ttfornent cornet, the shock will be of such a name that martini, be' lar/0411A ihm4f h h e he had but feebly eitelitiottrad to-describe it. natirat would finditself id eatteme Thine", ind'aelawe its delusion. A principal poirieto be teasideted - was, what - skald be thel extent at which the prohibition should take effect? On this tbere'wtmld most 'Maly be dilikrenoe of opinion. Some petit:llllr might think it right to put the price of importation consi derably !uglier than what would be proposed; others would wish is fix it stilllower, and might contend, that beam* many buMbens were about to be re moved, that a reduced price could be taken for the produce of the land, - and afford a fair profit. He would not agree to this, if be could think the ;woes. sary effect would be to bring up the market price of corn to that point ; but he did nut believe it would be so; for what with the competition between Eng land and Ireland, the annual produce would be so large, that, except to bad season% lie did not believed but what we shcluld have a supply amply sufficient to feed the whole popidatitm of the country. He could int conceive what it was that'eatthl necessarily keep up the price of corn to the amount at which the importation was to commence. The price' he was disposed to recommend was nos. for wheat, and that the relative proportions of other grain should remain exactly as they are at present. The nature of the Rcsnitation that he had first to propose was, that at all times meal and flour of whatever description should be imported, with the exception of flour, ipto Ireland, and that it should be warehoused free of any duty, and exported also, till the average price for a given time could be ascertained; reserving, how ever, some principle with regard to the calculations ; but that the importation should be prohibited till wheat was at 80s. after which all importations from any part of the world should be permitted, free of duty ; and then under no circumstances should corn pay any duty whatever. With regard to the impor tation into our own colonies in the West Indies and' America, the price should be 675. which would be in the same proportion as 80s. in England ; but that it should not be usable till the market price was 675. and after that it might be taken ont of the warehouses for consumption. The Committee would find that 87s. for wheat bore the same relative proportion to $Us. at Ms. does to 695. at which the prices now stand. They would•also observe, that this was only a general outline, but the Resolutions would not in vasive say complicated :natter for disrUssion. The principal tpiestiod therefore to be considered would . be, *liedtwit would be right to adopt the Resole tionsotod whether the price proposed was the proper emelt* be flied ? As it was not his intention to call - on the House to come to any specific opinion at Pre sent, he trussed he should be excused for not going inartitrther detail on the subject. But•he must add, that he felt extremely tinwilhog to ondertake it, from a knowledge of his incapacity to do it justice. He would therefore only add, that he did i n his con science believe, that the measure was one of universal benefit ind utility. He must state that it was not his intention to proposaany . alteration in the method of taking the aeeragesi but he . proposed to make one *legation in the mode in wh ich they would ap ply. As the fluctuations in the prices during three snooths were often considerable, he would recom mend, that as the law now stands, when the impinta tion is allowed at all, it should be allowed for three months, taking the average of the three weeks pro cedinig the thtee months. R might be objected ' that three months would alloW of the 'lntroduction of an enormous glut from France and Flanders; at to in vert the stale of prices on the instant. He thould therefore suggest; that the period of three months should be affewid fir impostatlons from America; but wtth regard to those front parts belied' the Ga- Anita; Slid the Eider, if it appeared at the expiration of six weeks, that the aver Age price was below 80s. that the importation should then be stopped ; with a dud allowance of time; however, for 'hg-shlps c° llllll 4 irom distant parts of the Continent. That would prove a bit It speculation, and he did not apprehend -it would be attended with any bad consequence. The first Resolution being the read by the Chair man of the ComMittee, Viz. "'That when lawful to import any torn of flour into Great Britain, it shall be imported without the payment of any duty what . ,4 ever ;" Mr. PHILLIP* said; that if it was s the *ill of the .1-louse to bring the etthject now under debate, he v.rould.at once debt his opmfon upon it; but if other wise, be would bi silitit:—CSeeeral voices having , m a im e d • 4 . oon ! gd on !3—He said lie agreed %v ia...the Vert' Hon. Gentleman, that this was a question on which a great variety of opinions existed. —it was one ou'which the landed and Malilfaatlr• iOtt interests were particularly at variance ; but he shOuld say, that it was the ditty of the Legislature not .01 pity attention to any one class in Prete hence to another; but to adopt just and general principle*. He felt,turprised at its being thought that theti was 07 . ottaiiois so deliberate. What uccasion was There to Wave it disiorering g a re- That We nations pot- Fir 'ply an erecty The, corn get a peerestrit jie would. Wirat.wngte pre ' vent us? We Vfi tbdod it when it trantert eines in the iPorst of times,' under the despot of llinapartet . If et any time a proclamation se*re is: sisals, prrietwe'; supply of corn, the effect weuld be' Ilia 'fort on the 'Plat of 'other countries to :apply ours. 'Could any person conceive aay thing more calcu. toted to increase the price of corn than the•experi. meat of cultivating inferior lands at home? and you must go. on 4 in finitely increasing' your new ail. lage, though is deemed a remunerating" price this year may onght far from - a remuneration price nett year. 'llse Right Hon. Gentleman says, that it is necessary to give the same sort of privilege to agritulture is to manufactures: 7 ;lHr. Robinson said a few words in explanation.]—He did state that the manufatiparis of the country woolit gain under the restrictl4 systeni. Let us considertbe effect of this system. 11 it has operated, it has occasioned capital to be invested i trades in which we have no superiority, butt are i to our neighbotits. This is a positive injury. s'.. nsanufactures t however, which are totally independent of them could exist as well without as with them. But the relation between the price of labour and the price of corn iris' a ma terial consideration; and he would content), that if these Resolutions did riot piOduce the effect of raising the price °l earn, AO *Veld be consider inoperative. Leos consider wbat will be chi effiet on the price of labour. We ore told in the Leith' ' Report, by several wittiesies,lhat there is little or no relation between the price of labour and the price of provisions.—CHere the Hen. Gentleman read some extracts from the Report to this effect.]. —It was ' stated by some of the witnesses, that a high price of provisions invariably produced a low price of labour. Therefore it is evident that we are attempting to hi. crease the wealth- of the rich and depress the poverty of the poor • and we are going on to try practically what can be the minimum of distress the poor could bear, and what the maximum of wealth that could be gained by their *tiering,. He would - defy any' man to shew that such reasoning is not literally true, and that results will not be the effects of die measure in contemplation. In new countries, where the esti. I culture is thriving and progressive, the rate' of the wages of manufacturers may be so high silo bear a relative proportion to the price of provisions. In America, the highest price of labour is pertirattentk I proportionate to the lowest price of provisions. W, I then, in regard to manufactures you increase the price of provisions, yod do a serinui inju ry to labour. I What, the, efore is the situation of the bearer ? He' malt work sixteen hours instead of ten, in order to procure the common necessaries of life; and the in- I jury is, that he must work hims e lf out o healtAnd into tie workhouse ! This established order Makes it absolutely impossible for a low price of labour to exist permanently with a high price of provisions. —A glance at some tables of comparison between wages and the price of provisions, which he held in his hand, would illustrate these facts. The Honour. able Gentleman here read several passages, from which it appeared that the price for weaving muslin: at Glasgow, on an average, for the Is 93 y•Ars, was Io,i. per ell, while the average price of corn was £4. ls. Bd. The Member for Glasgow had told him that this wits a fair prkelor labour when such was the price of grain. For .the weaving of jacconote, they got only 7d. an elll•when the price of _grain was LI. Is. 81 Let us now consider what et the in. creasing of the price of grabs will h ave on manufactures. Although it must be admitted that by means of grand machinery and large establishments we had brought certain mantifectures to the height of perfec tion, yet we ought to be aware that a period was ar riving, when a material change will be brought about in their circulation. He had had opportonitiel of talking with a Gentleman who had paid great atten• tion to the manufactures of France, and who was astonished at the very great success and improvement they had brought them to in that country. It was well known, that not only in France, but in many other countries of Europe, the greatest desire was shewn to rival us' in our ptincipal manufactures.— The Hon. Gentleman then entered into a series of arithmetical calculations, to chew the superiority which the foreign artisan held over the British manu facturer, in consequence of the cheap and regular price of the necessaries of life on the Continent ; and the Inference he drew was. that the disadvantage un der which the, latter labonted Would render the ma nufacturing competition a most severe one. If, said he, you raise the price of provisions, you necessarily raise the price of labour :—lf yott raise the price of labour, lon necessarily injure your manufacturing in. terests. Bur the whole argument might be said to centre in this important tact, that do what you will, the price of lab Our will always be bights here than on the Continent ; and thiS ii the strongest ergungent thtit can be produced against increasing the price of provisions. (The Honourable Gentleman here read some papers from a pamphlet, in support of opi nion.) He thought . Gentlemen *not be auto that the effects of this measure must be to subject the richest country in 'the world to the liability of bebop actually starved, if it .does not tithe ail the provisions . it consumes. Yon have got provisions frog's abroad when you wanted them, and Mot reveal 7 0 0 from getting them in future ? The:l/nation of this coun try is, that she stands idt the Midst of all Other coun tries Who ire wanting to her. We Might, an the saint principle, be _ ale we should want a supply of hefhp for the use of our naVy tnit. we wise that ere are and hie'Away: bees Supplied' with hemp. though Ike nib Orndike It. g er 'gr a '' phical situauoin has made tit coninianding g let us net make experinients . to change the commercial chanty.. ter of the cooltfit for the s of its agricahural wealth. This has been the result of one eomtnertlil tVealth for the prodigal. of ie onnnerei MK% and elder& the produce' . of 'aka*, by snaking #ach a ireese the Otogreie of tenviiitidhil, oliablir some Web in lettetrialigithflard contendhal . thin If things /kale idea Y ° P , O k a c ,"thl, .. as6l c 4 bti ektekt.its .e ttise=4Zt ag e t in a Olei c else Ittilitied With lajarv, 4 Met sure' Weer adeptildfor-s beaaklie theta have file Mplidet :5* it *Limr chit the a biatin_g tub $ i 9 a ~ twit Nilo& - . , •~-- _ :.ro-~Y: neeteictions for a caus e of our pospetity. It Ores ps, therefore, to dew them that die d o se .4111retent, and that it is 'by the principle i. 4 fv tl i tide that our . lnterests will be besi'coetatltcd. 'it Iroptd be utterly impossible for the germ al wealth or country to be increased, n ideast the general wealth of the landed interest in pat 'kola. being in creased 'along with it I le would, i licit fore, tay to', h i this. t out w, and not in the House. by persevering the wrong course you are purAiing, y o u %sill commis the welfare of the nation at latge ; and upon all the srounds he had stated, he deemed it itecev.ary to withhold his asrtni limn the measure. • Mr. Wl'...rEttN contended that the laiteficial effects of this measure would be felt by none more than by the labouring class. Ile t1.f0r, ; 1.; the Right Hap. Gentleman did nen last year wht.ti i.e moved so refer the innumerable petitions on this subject to s Committee, and he did well this year when he made it similar motion, because the altranq consi. deration was due to the subject ; and it was both the interest and duty of the House fully to convince their Minds that the adoption of this measure is eqoally fur their own benefit as for the benefit of these testy data it more pat ticulaely intended for.— AU measures whose effects are calculated for bent. flung the lower classes, by rendering food cheap, are wordy of adoption ;--;-and it does appear that this trfodil likely - 'bp produce such an effect t—thetefiire k ought to be adopted and persevered in' dutil any evil Onet.friseitjt, 'be rendereefobvious. But so ha holt antylajtsies:being likely to arise from it, all ks reulai 4rere of tendency diametrically op ftte.g The prohibition is only following up exist ing lawi ; by'those Which were established under the reign of King William. the prohibitions were exten ted td a much greater length. The object of these laws was to encourage agriculture in our own coun try, and to render us independent of all foreign supply. The laws and duties in question must have been con sidered as so many direct prohibitions; and the Right Hon. Geatleman was only proceeding in the paths of wisdom and foresight, adopted by our ancestors. — But he would say diet the measure before the House did not even go to any thing like the extent of those laws, under which the mercantile and manufacturing interests. first began to thrive in this kingdom. His Hon. Friend behind him had talked of the manufac tures suffering by the operations of this measure.—. Bat he wouldask, had they not risen to their present Height, by these very restrictions and prohibitions ? The measure was nothing mere than adapting the 'principle of those laws to the exigencies of the present 'time, and so delicately, that he apprehended ne dall ies, whatever from their operation could . 3 y any pos sibility arise. His Hbn. Friend Was alarmed lest the operation of the measure should advance the necessa ries of life. He would take him up oa this ground, and contend, that it would render breed cheaper in this country than those measures which his Hon. Friend would adopt The price of food in this country must And will come up to the price of labotir ; and the producer of provisions should receive a remune ration adequate to the remuneration derived by the operators in other trades and manufactures. The advantages derived from this mode of life constituted part of the prilits, and therefore minir profits were considered adequate, on account of the superior com forts of the line of life. He was confident that *fin. a time the price of corn might be beaten down below iwhatwould allow a fair profit; but it might be sup posed that the intention of the opposers of the mea 'me was to put no limits to importation. Bet there Were neutral measures beyond which it could not ge., 'The imports were comparatively not large. There were also artificial limits, inches wars, and the policy of foreign Governments, and different political admi migrations. Look ai the exporting law of France, at this moment, which law stops the export at 495. What security then had this country for a constant supply ? But the laws of King William, instead of making her dependent upon foreigners for a supply, rendered her an exporting country herself. At one time Great Britain exported annually upwards of 600,000 quarters of corn. But in 1763 we stopped the export, and admitted corn from all pal is of the world at 40s. which was befc.re the export price.— Here wasa great and material change. 1i the amount of tonnage which had entered the British Ports, within ' the last duel or four years, were eitimated, it would be found to amount to 1,500,000 tons ; but two thirds of the whole tonnage entering British ports, would only bring us five millions of grain. In 1764, the French issued a decree respecting the trade in grain, to the effect that all corn exported t•hould be con. aayed in French ships, navigated by French seamen. What should prevent other countries from adopting thisprattice (liar . 1 ) if they found we depended on them for food for our manufacturers? If, 'hen, this country placed herself in such a situation as to require the food, she places herself in a state of double de pendence. If foreign countries withhold their markets none our manufactures, and their corn from our pea. pie, in what a situation should we be placed.? Some people, however, thought of nothing but exclaiming, ''Give as a brisk demand. But he had been contending -al along that the price of bread must and will be lowered by a system of policy. such as has been put ' ed for many a year, and whith we are now called tilt:to continue. Thus far he had argued, to endea to shew, that the price of bread would not be advanced by the system in question, butit will be by encouraging a system of importation. The alarm at knowing that we were dependent oa foreigners would alone create a rise in the price. And as to the prices of 'provisions In this country, he believed they Would not be found relatively higher than the prices tarp Infers' countries, or even then those prierstiere tevesiat ts ely fifty or sixty greats ago. M. de , hiontesq eu, being called OA too state to the Legisla- INN. penjek of 'slaw on cam says, that from the * Mae in I'M the price of corn was equal to Mi. 10th ' 4 8t16 money, when the price of corn in traght ‘461; seas the price in France is 455. and in Englandlit e As this relative price did,' lot *bli previews the ItitroduceiOn of our mantlac.l WM state* Fettllol, he know not why it should pre tenttbilit introduction now. If the price of corn be ranee*, and the other articles of provision do not a in prdeortion, the situation of the workman must elwayountondisttebles moderate prices will never atiff rde itiai m a tre i :to te ". h h i a ::w a o h a r iin k oii m . en oonu i , t h the i n e y ts aß of i uf t charg a ba ct :k rer tn i rn p ays a t t h y o the Nedt. There had beep an eatery about tt4 ne. ob sedncint tenth liiet if rb44 matt are r - heed, one of these coasenaedees must follow r the landlord must say to his tradesman, when la called on him for his bill, " I must see what was rat, expenditure last year, arid as my rents have Len It.• duced oneltall, you. most strike off one-half of the Antow.P. ot my debt fr. 1:i your leuger." Thu the trill,-ao.te trirLa teduce his establishment : he area either turn off ow. half at his workti-m, or he mast employ them only half of their time. Them they would Lee the consequence. The win kmen, who were desirous of having cheap bread, would have cheap labour also.—(llear, hair). —They would have half as much to do. It wa3 a fact tl,:a the people of this country, when bread was much higher than it is at present, commooded mare luxuries and eolith,' is of lite t h in the people of, other casitotrira l from whom they would take the corn. But in arc: tier point of vine, it seemed that the cc.ro wbicb e.. wished to take from Pohjid, and knl.tx- co:no:its die Continent, should be lett to remain e...iet!, being their ow:t natural produce, for the tante of their population ; and we biloild grocluie a suffiAent proportion for the support of our own.. The labourer, he admitted, might pay a lOgber pet es for his bread in England than was paid' by the 1.,. bourers of whet cent:tries; but he contended, notwithstanding this, be might boast of more comfort than they could command. A diminution of rent, be maintained, in affecting the landlord, wnt:!,t through him injure the tradesmen. and f}om his losses the journ* yman mechanic and labourer• must sufir. From a calculation of the average produce ,qt turpips, barley, cloves : beans, acid. wheat * . be tamed the produce of an acre of land to be equal to three quasteekof wheat. The Hon. Gentleman said, for every 10s. which were added to the rent or ez penses of'land, it made an Addition of about 3s. to a quarter of wheat. If then he took the whole rental of the country at 80s. per acre (and this he was satis. Bed was considerably higher than the rate at which it oug!it to be taken), it would be seen the annibila. don of the entire rent would only effect a diminution in the price of corn to the amount of 10s. per quarter. This done, he would ask, could the English fatteer compete with the foreign grower ?—No ; even after this reduction of his expense, the price at which he could grow and sell his corn, would be much above ' that at which the foreign merchant could send his corn into the market. The consideration of tlse rent, therefore, he held to be a very immaterial part of the subject. If a reduction of 10s. per acre were made lin the rent of land, this would only diminish the [price of the quarter of corn Ss.' 4d. and th is would ronly make a difference of about three farthings—. !hardly so much, ilk the loaf. Tile Right Honour. able Gentleman, in the propositions which he had submitted to the Committee, had only followed that course which had been pursued in former periods of our history, and in his opinion doing thilt, he had proceeded with cautious steps. He had named 80 shillings as the protecting Price, and he (Mr. Western) thought this a price which ought not to excite any degree of alarm in the country. Could it be said that 80s. was any thing:like a scarcity price e The average price of wheat for the last twenty years would. be found to have been 88s. The average of the first ten years was Me It then the average price of corn for the first ten years, from 1793, was 735. it could not be thought that the Right lion. Gentle man in naming 80s. as the protecting price, now had proposed one unfairly high. In 1793 the taxation of the country amounted to but about £16,000,000. Up to the year 1804 ikshad not exceeded £34,000,000. If when the average taxation of the country was not more than 25 or £26,000,000 the price of corn had been what he had stated, now when the taxes ex ceeded 460,000,000; to take 80s. for the protecting price was to take the lowest that could with proptiety be adopted. Tire assertion that the importation price was the lowest at which corn would be sold in Eng land after the measure in contemplation had beds carried into effect he denied. On this subject, fur proof, they could only refer to the experience of for mer times. During this, however, it would be seen, that while 625. was the protecting price, and while 4 bounty was given on exportation, for a consi derable period, the average price of wheat had been as lOw as thirty shillings per quarter. A recent instance of this might be given from the rapidity with which the price of wheat had declined in the year 1813 ; when, in consequence of the mem tions entertained of a peace, its value had sunk to little more than the half of what it had been.— From the papers on the table, they would see th:s from the Deptford and Portsmouth contract pricesia February and November of that year. The contract price at Deptford for wheat was, in February, 100 s. the 'quarter. In November it was 655. 21 and du ring this period, it was to be remarked, more corn was exported from than imported into Great Britain and Ireland. The Portsmouth contract price was i t s rebruary 102 s. ;in November 675. 2d. From these statements, be iought it proved that the lowest mar ket price of corn was not necessarily that up to which the importation of grain was prohibited, 'and at the same time, it would be seen bow great the agricul. tural influence had become in this count's', and how competent it was to maintain itself. It was now esta blished, that we had the means of procuring a suffi ciency of food far the population of the country, in. 'dependent of a foreign supply. lie was satisfied that we could.not obtain from foreign countries any very large portion of the supply necessary for ow annual. consumption ; but if our ports were thray u open, the 13; itish agriculturist would be intimidated it , the dangers thus set before his eyes, and the most injurious effects. Our own farmers oppressed, and a foreign supply obtainedr not wanted. But if such a system were • should in time of need find that we could mand it. The dangn might become t4an• it had ever yet been. The differ. might in itself serve as a bounty on ion bow far this might operate he could . certainly believed it was in the contemplate agriculturists of France aad Flanders to avail themselves largely of the adr by the British market. All the evils cipated might not arise trout the tree . corn ; but whop he asked, would choose dent on a foreign country for the supply of such primary importance? Situated try was, equally the admiration and tha g ather, it became. their dew to watch caret.ully Interests, to guard against its being any "pair!, land Last of all dependent-cox w ------ ----- r i edy lot the !ei p . r!ce Ofirain ' Was it Vat We produce 7i . consider . a giekt dliWdantaie what other nations chanke, we concetrii to be thi greatest . itEatittage • they, can pos. weahlt. The .: seat ?—(raa., &if.) A iagali# aid iniforin price descant at 00113 ;Kum ii s tAto be lived here by ltrilitini the Wryly ; ciple, and cone 'while 11; 411 t atltei countrie s ik is attained by ia• own natural. or at ti zdta crew tho_cinkinOty ! fie conk! . not cOneeire any the . to Wl* egtelifitt for . pindiiikig an effect a la ii diketti . tat iitigf ht ila be eapetiett. The del ;hates aq It t 3li ri t idea. &di' h . ' jilt shall have corn might r e , • . tilt labdi th in kilt ithe r inbans s bat tempos flier' ts k ii.,........, .I:ie iht hi ptic . #llti fa'ci.. pose, it . a • • v i i it . ;.: - . lA_ of , 1 .. , aid' '' e. &re be. Tibia chit itii' : l 4 4 . „ ~ . _.. -••••;,. .. *Mt efils boon *ii at blakink iiitiklit era '." lii ,:,:. , .4 aaiiii : iitt dfilieteitif ~. . ,-, ...... • . - • • . ed, mote corn Great Britain Let price was in L From tbesi the lowest mar- hat up to which ed, 'and at ti. e.• eat the agricul• away. and how t was now esta- ocuring a sufil- he country, in- e was satisfied countries any ..essary for our . Is were throw intimiJatc . 41. 4 ad thus produce rmers mrglit be Lcd, when it w. 46 :re adupitd, we :unid no; corn( ntore A artn..v. nce rti.e Ipoet.itioo ; I not WS* H 6 InplatlVll of du. 1 to endeasoi;r rantages offend which he alit - impOtt.4duis of Notz to be clvpus• ply of an artoci 4 :ed as this cow: la envy olonv natal) , over t dependent on =Mt e