Star. — London, England, 1805-05-24 00:00:00

any additional debt being incurred. But from the direCtion the Hon. and Learned Gentleman gave to his argument, it is only deferable tbat I fhould re pel it lo iar as applies to the augmentation of that debt without the cadent of Parliament. The debt then coral , : Of two parts—ill. The arrears. 2d. The increafe ie the fh of bills. The praCtice of itTuing Navy Bills is not novel, it begin about the time of .he Revolution. They were :Len to be paid, without preference, according to the priority of their date, but there was no limi. ;1 tatinn in the time of their difcharge. Thus, for 60, 70 , or 8o years, Government was not expelled to pay the hills until it fuited the public convenience to anfaer them. This plan was abandoned, but not witl , any view to prevent the exitlence of the debt.— In the year 1704 an A:1 was paired, by which it was ordered, that all Inch Bills fliorthd be payable within l e months from the day of their date Dining the ti n ; ; war, bills of this defcription had been at the enormous difcoant of twelve, fourteen, and eigh teen per cent. and every principle of public policy demanded fome alteration to prevent the facrifice.— By the 17 Gca 111. c. z 6. it was enabled, that all Navy, Victualling, and Traafport Bills fhall be pay able on a day to be named in the Bill, and not later than three months after the date. But this new re gulation WAS for no filch purpnfe as was intimated by the H Insurable and Learned Gentleman, but to make the pubic credit relpeCted, and to provi.ie for the fer vices in a more beneficial manner. Looking to this fhort hillory, I am aitonithed at the feelings the Hon. and Learned Gentleman expreffed, and I am at a lois to conceive what circtimltanee can fug gel to his mind the poffibility of the violation of the conßitutian it thele tranfaftions. But to proceed to the periods to which he has adverted. From a cattle which it will be the duty cf the Committee to invef tigate, in the autumn of uSoo there was not in the hands of Government a foffitient rum to difcharge tittle Navy Bills, without carcroachieg on the funds provided for the Dock-yards, wages, and other items for which ready money is AL:aysnecelTary. In this fituation the holders of Navy Bills were divided into two claffes, the one of which would fubmit to the re newal of the bills, the other which required prompt payment. To the former, new bills, with the cor refponding interefl, were iffued ; to the latter, money was paid, and the cafh In given was railed by the ne gotiation of Navy Bills (a ith thole ivho were dilpof ed to take them) far an equal amount. Is this to be called any infringement on the Brian) Canflitution? and is it not only a perverfion of terms, but of all the received modes of jufitreafoning, front fcch premifes to make this remote inferenne ? The olijeat to which there rums were applied was bcrra fide the naval ter vices which the public fecurity imperioufly demand ed. Then the Hon. and Learned Gentleman lays, the accounts conneCted with thefe affairs were fadi titans ; they purported to be one thing, when in fad and in truth they were another. The correCtnefs tallith, no doubt, the Hon. and Learned Gentleman has acquired froM kis prof--Tonal habits, Hill not have permitted him to advance this without fufficient grounds, and there he will Rate before the Commit. tee ; for my part, I mull acknowledge frankly, my opportunities of official information have not enabled me to difcover tkefe : to my knowledge, no lift was &petted, Sir, on your table ; the aggregate amount was alone Rated. If my views of the fubjeCl fhould accidentally be jull, I have a right to expeCl„ from the candour of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, that he will tetrae, that his weighty authority may not be attached to an unfounded allegation. But not to interrupt the narrative— " The year ;goo was marked by very peculiar circum!lances. We recolleet, with pain, the gene ral tearcity which prevailed in the efTential articles ef human lubfilkence, and the calamities which were endured by a large and meritorious dais of the community. The neceffary effeet of this was a prodigious increafe in the expence in all the public fervices for the rapport of our fleets and our armies. It the Hon. and Learned Gentleman thotrld be found not to be intimately converfant with matters not in the immediate line of his vocation, this, at kali, was firdiciently a matter of general notoriety to have atirailed his attention. To this pretling cir. curnitance mar be added, the magnitude of the danger with which this nation was threatened, and the extent of the exertions of a Noble,Lord, then at the head of the Admiralty, to meet the difficulties of the State. That this extraordinary vigour in the Ad minittration fhould have been effeClual, is a matter of furpr de, when we refled that the advance in the price of gores alone was from 401. to loot. per cent. The country will impartially judge, if, under thefe eircumlianees, the meafure complained of was not fully itillifled. " Then the Hon. and Learned Gentleman enquires, How came this neceflity to continue from the rear 183 a to rßoz ?' For the tranfaelions in the latter period I am not refpnnfible, but I am on that account not the lets anxious to vindicate the proceedings.— And here I mull fay, the Honourable and Learned Gentleman has not examined the bufinefs with the accuracy the Houle might have reafonably expelled. He contents hinifelf with the infpeCtion of the ge cral comment, but he has not troubled himfelf to attend to the dates of the refpeCtive hates in fupport of the teriaus charge he has made. Had he conde4ended to do this, he would have difcovcred that the delivery of Bi'ls terminated as early as March, 18ot, for as loon as the loan was negotiated it was fufpended.— In September of the fame year, and until the fucceed• mg fptirg, the praftice was again reforted to, but at that time the Preliminaries of' Peace were negotiating. and the Definitive Treaty was figned in the month of April, rßcz. Was not the revival of this expe dient, ;,, fuck a predicament, jaflifiable ? Does not every Gentleman perceive the difadvantages under which a loan mud at that time have been obtained ? As farm as any arrangements could be made, 'bele means of fupply wete abandoned, and they have ever line.: been dircontitmed. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman did not infift, with much earnefinefs, on the difference of intereft arifing from the difcaunt on 89 or 9a days. A very few words will therefore be full . ; dent. Either the perfons receiving the bills allow ed for this trifling advantage in the bargain they made with the public ; or it was fo infignificant that it was overlooked. The extent of the evil was three pence anti a halfpenny on each tool. We know, at lean from the authority of the report, that Mr. Gold fund, who, it will be admitted, pnffeffes every quali fication to make any beneficial difcovery in fuck an affair, never noticed it, if It ereeped the penetration of this refperiable Gentleman, with his confirmed habits of bufinefs, furely it is looking at minutia with a fort of microfcopic attention for which human pru dence is not perfedly prepared. The next particular to which I (hall advert re (peas the fecret fervice. On this head alfo I (hall be very concise, becaufe I feel it a duty to be fo, whether I contemplate the good faith which ought to be pre ferved with individuals, or the fubflantial interefls of the public. I may at leaft confidently anticipate, that any Committee chorea to fcrntinize into this depart. ment, will be thoanughly perfuaded, that the items which have invited th much olsfervation have been properly applied ; and further, that the difclofure of the fervices would hate been highly improper. I will likewife aver, that the purpofes in thefe instances were flridly naval, and with thcfe folemn alTurances, I troll the }inure will be fully fatisfied. The Honourable and Learned Gentleman fays, money for fuch defigna cannot legally be railed, but out of the Civil Litt. Had he Paid that they cannot be legally paid but out of the Civil Lill, hislanguage would have been more intelligible—but we need not differ about the terms applies to a fubjea with which the habits of the Honourable and Learned Gentle man have not ren d ered him perfeElly familiar. Does he mean to argue, that an Admiral or a General employed on a remote fervice cannot apply money on fecret duty, to acquire intelligence of the intention, condition, or force of an enemy ? and will he fay that the fums In expended will not be extraded from the pecuniary tefources voted for the navy or army ? " Then the Stone Expedition, for which funds were fupplied, it is Paid was known, although a le cret fervice, by every waterman from London-bridge to Wellmintler Hall. If it arrived at the knowledge of the Honourable and Learned Gentletn..• , whole feem to have been fo little direded to fuch fob jeds, I (hall readily admit that it mutt have attained no inconsiderable degree of publicity ; but I appre hend long before he became acquainted with it, the projea had terminated, and then its notoriety was of very little comparative importance. The other fer 'ice which has been alluded to is of a nature per fedly dittinet, it can only be explained with fatety at a much later period, and I very much doubt if the Committee will not think it difcreet to confign it to perpetual obfcurity. With the Stone Expedition the Honourable and Learned Gentleman may be lefs likely to quarrel, becaufe it now manifettly appears, that it was known to, and approved of, by the No ble Lord who prefided at the Admiralty when it was undertaken. Then fur the fum of roo,oool. there is no doubt it was faithfully and exclusively devoted to naval fervices. In one refped, no doubt, it is myf terious, but it is perfedly clear it was bona Pe ap plied to that fervice, and fo it is acknowledged to be by the Commiffioners of Naval Enquiry. To con elude then, Sir, I entirely coincide with the Honour able and Learned Gentleman, that there fhould be a Committee for the purpofe of this investigation. To that body may be confided all the fubjeas adverted to, excepting the application of the fum of too,ocol. 'kith noticed. The duties of this Committee, I pre. fume, will not occupy many days, and then a Secret Committee may immediately fucceed to examine into what has remained untouched by their prede- Iceflors. Therefore, all I (hall deem neceffary is to propofe an amendment, excluding the Tingle item I have diftirsguifhed from the review of the Committee propored by the Honourable and Learned Mover of tae queflion." Mr. FOX role and faid that he did not difapprove of the divifion of the matter contained in the Report. in I i the way propofed by the Right Hon. Gentleman who had jolt fat down. There was fomething, how ever, in the obfervations of the Right Honourable Gentleman which applied to the courfe of argument porfued by his Honourable and Learned Friend who commenced the difcufEon, upon which he thought it proper to fubmit a few remarks. The Right Hon. Gentleman expreffed his opinion, that it was unne ceffary in the Learned Mover to employ fo much of his eloquence to imprefs upon the Houle the propri ety of enforcing the obfervance of that great confti tutional precept, that no part of the public money should be appropriated without the content of Parlieo ment. Bt.t it !truck his mind that there was no truth fo univerfally acknowledged as to render the repeti tion of it unneceffary or fuperfluous where the vio. lation of it was frequent, which happened to be the cafe with regard to this precept. Without entering into the fubjeet at prefcnt, or imputing motives to any let of men, he mull tabferve, that a pradice had obtained, of late years, of factificing to fuppofed public convenience the twit facred conflitutional principles and parliamentary privileges, which prac tice threatened much more ferious confequences than any that had been !fated by the Learned Mover. He did not mean to fay, however, that this pradice was as mifchievoos as that which exalted in the reign of Charles the First, and led to a revolution, becaufe thofe bills mutt be at length paid by Parliament. But yet it was not lefs conftitutional that money fhould not be appropriated without the previous approbation of Parliament, as that it fhould be levied without its previous content. In the intlance under conficlera tion, the money appeared tta have been railed by what he mutt call fictitious bills, for they pretended to be that which they were not. The whole of the tranf adion, however, required a good deal of explanation, particularly in order to know in what manner thofe Bills were difcharged, 'and therefore hs approved of the Committee. As to the mode which' prevailed previous to the insrodudion of the Bill, which limited the duration of Navy Bdls. he difapproved of that mode as much as he did of a fimilar mode with re gard to the comfit& of the army extramdiataries, and it was very deferable both upon conftitutional and economical grounds that fuch mode should be effect tually prohibited in future. The explanation which the Right Honourable Gentleman had given of the manner of paying the bills &red at ninety days, did not appear to him at all fatisfadory. For although Mr. Goldfmid, of whom, although he had not the honour of perfonally knowing him, be, in common with the world who knew his chara&er, entertained a good opinion, overlooked the difference that arofe from the manner of paying thofe bills ; yet the over fight'of the Navy Board w,.s trot excufable, particu larly becaufe the ovetfight was pointed out to their attention. Refcaing to the Secret Services alluded so in the Report, the Hon. Member remarked, that as to the Corn of 16,00ci. iffued for a particular pun pofe, it did not appear that that purpofe was deviled or tinder the controul of the Adn , lialty. The plan ' otiginated with the Treafury, and, he muff fay, that it was highly culpable in the Treafury to attempt fuch a plan, without previoufly confitlting the Beard of Admiralty ; but not lets fo in the Admiralty to fanelion fuch a plan afterwards, if k did not meet its approbation. This la II remark would of courfe ap ply, if, upon a full invetligation it *mold appear, that the Noble Lord then at the head of the Admiralty, gave his fupport to a projeti, which, it , his own opi nion, was not likely to be efficient. There r:•as an obfervation which, although but collateral to the queflion before the Honfe, he could not forbear to make ; and it was this, that in the expenditure of the 16,0001. the order did not feem to have been flrialy complied with, which prefcribed that a regular corn. munication (hould have been had with the Admiral ty, previous to fuch expenditure. The Honourable Gentleman concluded with expreffing his hope that the propofed Inquiry would lead to the effablithment of meafures calculated to guard againft the factifice of the conflitutional praeice to any purpofe of pub lic convenience, as far as Inch guard was pratlicable, as far as the forefight of the Legiflature could pro• vide for public exigency, and thus reffrid that difcre tionary power in Miniffers, with regard to the expen diture of the public money, which was too liable to be abufed. Sir A. HAMMOND alledged that Lord Hobart told him that Earl St. Vincent had given his entire confent to the fecret fervice alluded to by the Hon. Gentleman, or that he (Sir A. H.) would have felt himfelf guilty of a mifdemeannr in undertaking the condo& of it. ,The Hon. Baronet added, that he, in all cafes, as was his duty, communicated with Earl St. Vincent upon naval affairs, unlefs when the Noble Earl's abfence from town, which was very fre quent, rendered Inch communication inripofsble. The Hon. Baronet vindicated the manner of paying of the Navy Bills for 90 days, and contended that it was in a great meafure owing to the iffue of the Bills com plained of by the Hon. Mover, that the credit of Navy Bills was maintained.---If that expedient were not retorted to, he really believed that the credit of the Navy would have relapfed into the dilemma in which it was involve/ previous to the year 1797, when the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Pitt) brought in the Bill which had been referred to, and which li mited the duration of llavy Bills to the period of 15 months. Antecedent to that, he could allure the Houle that Navy Bills, againit the currency of which all 'Change Alley Teemed to he combined, were at a difcount of 15 per cent.—The year immedittely fob fcquent to the there w a laving to the public upon the fun: of leven millions iflucd for NavPfer. vices, of little leis than one million, and a propor tionate laving accrued to the public on each fucceed. ing year. To preferve that credit which was elfen. tially ncceffary to fecure this laving, the Bills alluded to in the Report on 0e table were iffued, and he had little doubt that the fulled examination would thew that iffue to be perfeetly juflifiable. The quellion being called for, the amendment was agreed to ; and then the whole motion was agreed to as follows : 1, That the whole of the Eleventh Report be referred to a Select Committee, except Go far as relates to the it of toooool. for Se cret Services, to confider the matter thereof, and to report the fame, with their opinion, to the Houle." It was then ordered that the Committee Would confta of twenty-one Members, and that they should be chnfas by ballot. Mr. HUSRISSON brought up a Bill fur the •better Regulating and Auditing the Public Accounts, which was read a firß time, and ordered to be read a fecund time to•raorrow . The hint Excite Licence Bill was air° read a fiat time, and or dered to be read a fecond time to morrow. Mr. VANSITTART poitponcd his Motion relative to the Dublin Police, which Rood for this day, till to-morrow. The kith Malt Bill was read a fecond time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow. The London Wet Docks Rill was read a third time, and pad. The Prize Bill, which had been ordered to be committed to morrow, was further pollponed rill Tuefday next. Mr. ALEXANDER brought up the Report of the Committee of Supply, which was read, and a Bill ordered to be prepared. The hioufe refolved itfclf Into a Committee upon the Null-Horfc Farming Duty Aet, and the Chairman was initrudled to move for leave to bring in a Bill, which was accordingly done, and the BiU ortirred to be preparjd. Adjourned at half pall nine o'clock. HOLLAND. SPEECH OP M. SCHIMMELPENNINCE AT THE OPENING OF THE EFESION OF THE STATES GLNE&AL• 4 , High and Mighty Lords ! 4, For a long time have our countrymen felt the ne talky of preventing, by the introduction of a new order of things, the downfall of the tottering edifice of the State. This neceffity was fo generally felt, and in fo lively a manner, that I deem it luperfluons and unfit to enlarge upona truth univerfally acknow ledged ; but it is this general conviaion which holds npto us the rule by which we are to meafure the hope which the nation has again recovered, and the ex. peaation which it grounds upon our exertions. The burden which we take upon outfaces ' and the moft troublefome and painful part of which is to fail upon me, is heavy. The difficulties in which the (late is involved are manifold and great ; the firft proof of our courage will be, to dare to contemplate thofe difficulties, fuch as they actually cliff ; the fecond not to defpair of conquering them, that is to fay, of the falvation of our country. In my opinion, it would be little continent with that calm impartiality and unfbaken integrity which muff be efteemed in a Government, to afcend, in any manner, either to the nearer or to the more remote caufes to which we have to impute the prefent fituation of our country. I deem this the more repugnant to wifdom and equity, becaufe, whatever partial inconveniences may have arifen from individual mifapprehenfions, prejudices, or aeliens, yet the main fource of our difatters is by no means to be looked for in our bofom, but in caufes entirely without us, and quite independent of us. Our country could not fail, by its fituation and relations, deeply to partake of the great events which have changed the whole face of Europe; and the powerful impulfes which have fhaken the great bodies fituated around us, mitt naturally caufe a fenlible agitation in our eontraaed territory. And ought we then to continue fearehing into our entrails, or render ing the wounds of our State more ;ncurable, by feek ing after their caufes in our own botom, a &arch, the relult of which would always be expofed to different judgments, always lead to danrrous reproaches, and would be always molt adverfe to a concl,:ation No, High and Mislay Lord s,let esicave the castles, and let us 4suly view tiw wounds dearly. fold, wit h in tenti.v. to heal them ; and permit me, w'no Om now piaced at the head of the G rvernment, to print tut the means, and on this folemn occafiun, to (late to your High Mightineffes the principlei by which (hall regulate my adminitirition, and which I deem the moll proper lot l'ecitti. , g our politiCal ezitience abroad, and our tranquillity at h 3me. " Among the great aas which I imagine a wife nation expeets of us, I principally .have the following before my mind:—ln the fit It place, the putting an end to that Rate of uncertainty with refpeet to our ir:ternal government, which has ling tince tried and fatigued the people, and which would have termi nated in def Pair and dill:Au:ion. In the fecond place, the improvement of the finances of the country, broulzht to the brink of abfolute ruin, by the contr. tierces of internal troubles, and of ruinous wars.—s And laßiy, the embracing and maintaining a firm political fyltem, calculated according to the lituation of Europe, and fit to in fpire our allies with confi dence, and our friends with good will, and our ene mies with awe. " When we Mall have attained the two former o pr n o e v v id e e n d ts w o e ut o o n f ly ou ta r power) , ket ll w be edify attainable, ohjeds, the latter (a s f ar a s d e p en d s on us , an d not care that wi ll tha in mind the great changes which have taken place in Europe, and in our relations with our neighbours), do convince all nations which furl-mind us, that our wel fare and our profperity can never be detrimental to' theirs,and that they may fully depend upon our good, faith in fulfilling our engagements. In order to reftore the folidity and energy of our internal Government, I deem nothing more fit than sth unchangeable at tachm-nt to the facred principles of juffice; the doing equal justice to all, without difference of rank or opi nions; the reftoring the neceffary vigour to the laws, and the regulate authority and the ancient refped to all the lawful authorities; homage to talents, bra very, and met it ; every poffible indulgence to mifap prchention ; inexorable rigour to mifileeds. " The refloration of the finances of the country will be our mat laborious branch. Can you deem it necerrary, High and Mighty Lords, that a melan• choly picture thereof Ihould be exhibivd to you on this occafion ? or is that fad truth 'not fufficiently known, that ail the prefent ordinary revenue of the State is hardly fufficient to pay the intereft of our debts ? and can it after this be required to add any thing, to make you feel the grievous Rate of our finances? Without efficacious remedies, there is no poffible titivation from fo great an evil; and all the authority granted hy the Conftitution to the Execu tive Power, is abfolutely neccffary to arrive at thefe great meafures, which, fence the origin of the Re public, at various periods, have always been defined by great ftatefmen, and recommended by Tome ; but constantly fruftrated by the cleating of the powers, and the eternal oppofition either of prejudice, or of mean fellintereft, oftentimes badly underftood. By thofe efficacious remedies, High and Mighty Lords, I do not by any means aim at a violation of our en gagements. As little do I aim at an order for new and extraordinary imports. There would, in my judgment, either be politically impradicable, or end in a general emigration of all who can emigrate, and in a total corruption of thofe remaining behind. And therefore they (hall never make a part of the mea fures which will be propofed to your High Mighti nelfes in the courfe of my Adminitiration. " The meafures I aim at. High and Mighty Lords. confift, on the one hand, in the introducing a much greater fimplicity in the branches of Adminiftration, and in making very considerable favings ; and on the other hand and principally, in introducing a new fyf tem cf general taxation. This fyftem operating uni formly according to the relative abilities of the inha bitants in the different diftrids, will be able very con fiderably to increafe the refources of the country, as well by its finiplicity as by the certainty of the re ceipts. This increafe, united with the Caving of the expenditure. will enable the public Treafury regu larly to anfwer all ordinary demands; and when war, or other evils, require any extraordinary expences, they will be railed by fuch means as will be found the leaf preffing upon the public. It is towards thefe im portant objects that I with to draw the attention of your High Mightineries, and in the completion of which I expel the moft earnelt affiftance from your wifdom and patriotifin ; and in the accompli(hment of which, I cannot but think the people will, in a great meafure, re-etlablifh the former Rate of affairs. " I think what I have advanced is fufficient for the prefent : but perhaps your High Mightineffes, per. haps the nation, have a right to examine and confider upon the meafures I intend to adopt for the redrefs of their grievances, and the renewing of their prof perity. It is needlefs to fay a tingle word refpeding my inclination and refolution to facrifice what is molt dear to me, in order to accompliffi fo defirable an ob jed. This very Hall, Paris, Amiens, and London, can teflify my love and zeal for my country. I have no doubt of fucceeding in thefe undertakings. My hopes are founded on Peovinssicr, whom! adore, and whore care and protection we have lo often experienced.— On the calm realon and found judgment of the na. Lion ; on that valour which ever diftinguiftsed them ; oil their good faith, honour, and inward convilion, depends this laft attempt to re-eftablifh their hap pilfers. " It likewife depends on the affillance, and concord in opinion, of your High Mightineffes ; on the wif dom of your refolutions ; on the power of your ex ample ; and on the firmnels of your courage ; objects in which I cannot be difappointed if I have acquired any knowledge of mankind. Finally, it depends on our love for our country, and the great promifes have of the affittance of the great NA POLION, that extraordinary genius, who is admired both by friends and foes, who, after having caufed a change in the affairs of France, which will _be a fubjed of wonder and Armament. to future ages, has obtained the greatelt influence over us, as well as over ( e v ent ' other nations, of whole friendlhip I have the greater rea fon to Waft, becaufc it was obtained by never Av ers .. ingfrom truth cr rectitude in all my words, my actions, or even in my thoughts, which his penetrating eye read in the deepen receffes of my heart. Notwith (landing thele hopes, I am not cw.taiu of attaining my end. The book of futurity is 'hut to yourfelves as well as to me. As for tnyfelf. I fh all never gait my object, till I have aced every poffib le effort in my power to attain it ; I than never quit it dilbonourably. May tigAV Ell avert all difappointmer t, may its biers rings crown our labours with thee& , and re-edablit tit: minis its for mer Eloolflhin g liar a and !sapping& .6