Star. — London, England, 1819-11-25 00:00:00

0 w i s h whatever to calumniate the Grand .' le facts whic h be stated might have occur t the iune time there 'might be no blame the Grand Jury for not &Mint the bills e presented to them. They .might have reasons for doing so. But of the facts no doubt. Ndr was there•any doubt that A t least difficult to be obtained. He did nor could he, ander the circumstances, his mind to believe, that such Gentle ;olposed that Grand Jirry could. violate rs * oath. He saw in all this, something ordinary, but no perjuryi as far as those I were concerned Herr, hear, hear).— iv instance , that indictments had been pre them upon Lord Ellenborough's Act, it ily happen that, fiom the operation of icalities, the Bills could not be found. The nit of those Bills, therefore, gave rise to no spiciens in his mind , but it certainly did is mind, very strongly, that there was, a delay and a difficulty of justice. That ide a slow progress, every body saw. A Friend of his, after the Grand Jury threw determined then to proceed by infor out when he prepared,his affidavits and laid re the'Magistrates, they refused to receive ing, indeed, that they did not think they act in the case, as either by expression or a they might be considered as parties:— to. Cases were then laid before them, in L• were admitted noeto be parties. ven found reasons to reject. He must confess, was something in the whole of these pro rhich he could not explain nor understand. and Learned Gentleman who spoke last I who maintained his opinion with all that 6 usually distinguished his• speeches in that mended that there was neither difficulty nor btaining justice for any party who was in hat memorable occasion. But he (Sir F. :ould say, there was both difficulty and de ,- did the Coroner, who presided at the in ,ecs, after making the most strenuous, but ul exertions to render his Court a private why did he betray so much anxiety to have dings still kept as secret as possible?— r).—Men who had - sinister objects in con always courted secrecy—men who were upon upright and honourable objects, light—films hear). But in this case, the tade every effort to obtain secrecy, while attended - for the interests of the injured •rted the most open and unreserved pub ay, that officer went so far as to commit s, for no other crime than that of taking he evidence which was adduced—(Hear, te,toa, it was said again, there was no dif arriving at justice. But he would say the or in point of fact the Coroner refused to go blame at least was to be attached here ; asal and such conduct were strange and un is country, and therefore called aloud for in fear). The facts might perhaps be explained if an investigation were gone into ; but at ley ap pe ared to him totally inexplicable. e that the Court of King's Bench made an certain proceedings; but these proceed not try the questions —wheiher the Riot r was not read ?—whether a military force y used?—and without an investigation of ,t , ons, it Would be vain to expect, that the as it ought, be satisfied—(Cheers). ;lad to hear it said, that no abridgement of of the people was meditated. But the Gentleman who gave that intimation, ac it with such a view of the rights of the urrounded them with so many restrictions, ,ted upon so many exceptions, that he feared ich boasted rights would ultimately be cir ,ed within a very narrow compass. That ble and Learned Gentleman would not have he meet in numbers, because then they could isily controuled by the Civil Power. And if t in parishes it will be said, that the repre ss of such thin meetings ought to have no Thus, if the assemblies of the People be ey must be dispersed ; if small, they are tible. What then becomes of the birthright, , nt boasted birthright of the People of Eng (Cheers.) Really the manner in which this was treated on the other side of the House, sd one from knowing how to argue upon it: rus said aly. , ut the training of the people in parts of the Manufacturing Districts. He. ..y to admit it, and to give away all the ad that could be derived from the circumstance. v long did the people persevere in their hum lc of petitioning?—how long had they been [sly endeavouring to catch the ear of that and all to no purpose?—(Hear, hear). They wish—it vas libelling them to say they had wish--to change the Constitut i on. They well indeed it was as notorious as noon-day, that Lion, undisguised and barefaced and shameless tion, prevailed in that House to a vast extent. ;able Lord opposite was known to have bar the patronage of the Crown for seats in Puha erzes of Hear, hear, hear !)—He did not the Noble Lord particularly; he was not a p offender. What be did was done, and re fly done, before. He alluded to the fact, with ay hostility to the Noble Lord—without the !a vindictiveness towards any individual. - He desire that any punishment should be called ilon the Noble Lord in particular. The truth airy :Minister found such coirliption necessary ' He must absolutely do it, under the ag state of things. He would, however, take to say, that it presented a harsh and singular an ; while the Noble Lorclomained at ease and Y •is the full possession of all his blushing ho- Sir Manasseh Lopez, for a crime of a similar e, vas sentenced to pay a fine of 4:10,G10, and imprisoned for two yearsl--(lienr, hear, hear.) h nonsense, downright absurdity, to inflict such •Arnent in one instance, upon a crime generally rcil to go on with iMpunity. In comparison with tioble I.ord, Sir M. Lopes was as pure as snow, nocelit as childho o d! Th e on e only treated with I, it,2 individuals, only expended his own private 'TtY ; the other bartered the patronage of the for avowed purposes of Ministerial influence.' alubt the Noble Lord, for such crimes, deserved, e impeached ; but if that proceeding wereproved' tx (Sir Francis Burdett) would say for one, " let any man in the House who is free roni such crimes, throw the first stone, he Certainly should tint be that first man"--tHear, hear, and ;loud He did. not •wish to hurt a single hair on the Noble head, but he thought the system by which such oh:. equal justice was administered, neither more nor Zest than a system of hypocrisy !—(Hear, hear, hear). If was said the People had treasonable intentions—he denied the imputation; but if it were true, those in tentions assuredly could not be extinguished by new taxes, and new . legislative measures, hostile to their character and freedom ; measures of vigour, indeed, they were styled—he would call them measures of oppression—(Hear, hear). The same course of tyranny and blood was run in Ireland, and it eventually ter minated in the suicide of that Legislature by whose fproval it was sanctioned—(Hear, hear). The People were ready to submit to any sacrifice—independence, commerce, any thing they wo ild surrender, provided only they could get rid of such a Parliament--(Cheers). Let Ministers, therefore, be cautious how they go on. If they propose, and succeed in carrying through the Legislature, Aets subversive of the Rights of the People, instead of effecting a remedy for discontent, they will goad the People to madness and despair ! The Hon. Baronet then proieeded to vindicate the principles of Reform, from their supposed associa tion with doctrines of infidelity ; insisting that the Christian Religion was a religion of liberty—that, instead of being hostile to the principles of freedom, it rather taught and encouraged them ; that religion taught us to believe, that all men were nationally, equal—it taught us to do justice, to she's'', charity toe wards all men, to impute false motives to no indivi dual, and, in every act of life, to " do as ,you would be done by !"—(Hear, hear, hear). There was, there- fore, no ground for such an imputation. As to loyalty, he believed the country to be perfectly loyal. There never was„ he firmly believed, a more general, or a more ardent feeling of attachment to the Con stittition, kiiciirn to animate the country, than at this moment. The People loved the Constitution, .com- . posed as it was of king, Lords, and Commons ; they only say, that they cannot live under a Constitution 'of King and Lords only, and that the Common* should not be, as it is, virtually taken away--(Hear, hear). They had no wish to exchide from the Con-• stitution the privileged orders. There was no people in the world' who were more disposed tó look up with respect and regard to men of talents, than the People of England—(Cries of Hear, hear, hear). Loyalty !—Why, were not the Ministers actually in despair, because the people were so loyal? When Harrison was imprudently apprehended in the midst . of the people at Smithfield, did not the Treasury Journals taunt the people for what they called their cowardice, in submitting to such an insult ?—(Hear —After vindicating the antiquity of Annual Parlia ments and; Univerial Suffrage by the authority of Seldon, the lion:BaiOnet thouiht he might assure the House, that the people would generally be sods , fled with a moderate Reform, with such a Reform as would tend to establish a sufficient controul over the executive part of the Government. It was unjust, therefore, to charge the people with irreligious opi nions, because they desired a Reform of the Consti tution ; and, at all events, he' thought that opinion should not ibe the subject of legislation. Acts, in deed, if criminal, ought to be restrained; but for mere imputed theoretical doctrines, the people were menaced with an torts of new infringements of their ancient liberties. Did the House imagine it could ever re-establish its character by such measures as these? It was a subject of shame' and regret, that for the last quarter of a century the Parliament never met without taking away some of those valuable fundamental rights which were recognized and re-enacted at the Revolution. Ses sion after Session a new restriction of liberty is adopted, or a new tax imposed. Last Session four millions of taxes were agreed to be taken out of the People's pockets.—[Here it was intimated to the Honourable Baronet that the amount of these taxes was three not four millions.}—True, said he, three millions in the Exchequer, but four in the collections, and the pockets of the People were now completely exhausted. Allusions were made, and invitations were given by some Honourable Members to an Li comerax, and it was often said that . such a tee would lighten the pressure on the Poor. This was it .fallacious view of the question. It was not true that an Income Tax would have any such effect. On the contrary, it would increase the privations and distress already too prevalent among the lower aliases. The rich man should be considered as the poor man's banker, and every thing which tended to diminish the fund in the rich man's possession, was so much .taken from his means of employing the labourer and artizan—(Loud and continued cheers). In fact new taxes would require new military force ; and thus by taxes and new battalions the Ministers would create ten times the discontent they could con troul. The Hon. Baronet then alluded to the insult given to Earl Fitzwilliam, a Nobleman, with whom every Public Meeting held since his dismissal, sym pathized most sincerely. This proved the justice in herent in the character of Englishmen ; for though the people composing those Meetings were in favour of Reform, to which the Noble Earl was certainly no friend, still they paid public and glowing tributes to his public honour, integrity, and patriotism, and to his private virtues—goad cheers). Such a people, I if fairly treated, would heartily co-operate in ame liorating. their own condition, arid in regenerating 'the Constitution. He Concurred with the Hon. Member for Shrewsbury, that it was difficult to see 'bow one could vote upon the present occasion. Whe ther he looked to the Addreis or Amendment, he found noth'uig in Ilse prospect which either suggested, that Was not *glocmr and disastrous. He regretted that the Marithester affair was totally omitted i n the speech frona the Thtone and in the Address. S ome 'compunction at least for the raelancholy_transactions of that fiat Necting mighf bare been expressed.— Against the new measures intended he-strongly pro tested. This matter shouldlielagirnitted to a special insuiry ; atter that wa.! ci OW - 4 the House might tben turn its attention to er tonstitutional subjects, which it was high time e tOOnttY should now go into..—(The AloApteraAie e fi d ro w , t&n sat down (7 tOull thews , which manor for ssvei# nsinutesi. Mr. W. WItNNE could not agree with the Von, Almoner., or those who had (*ca. ed him in . the s e m . coarse of argument, that there..were mot sifficient, grounds for asserting. that the Meet. ,ms • of the op, of August was illegal. I fie conten ded, that the ats- I ls* dr ,iinnerg, inscribed with such unmeasured 1 epithets; al !ftilierty or Death,'! &c. and the hotori riot* raOtslif the'rnilitiry:ariAy. of the bodies which cettiptiseci.thit Meath's, add of their drilling up to the very itight - preeeding • it; were Most unequivocal and imperishabl e te s t imon i a l s. , of the illegal spirit Whith lid thein together oh that occasion, and of the propriety of dispersing them. The Honourable Gen tleman conchided, by s e:pressing his acquiescence in the original motion. • Sir JOHN SPRIGHT said, he believed there had scarcely, since he had sat in the House, been a Motion for inqui'r'y proposed for which he had not given his vote,' He should be sorry to be thought second to•any 'man in lamenting the events which had, taken place at Manchester; but although he admit ted the necessity or inquiry, he was decidedly of opinion that the object of the Amendment would be better attained by the investigation of the Courts of Judicature, than by any interference of the House. Ile then entered into an able exposition of the affairs of Manchester, and the question of Parliamentary Re form, and concluded by declaring that he had never mixed in any society, the political circles of that House excepted, in which he did not find the senti ments of the majority to be, that some reform in the House of Commons was necessary; but he depre cated the idea of making any concessions to what were called the Radicals. Mr. LYTTLETON agreed with his Hon. Friend in thinking that the present Amendment was not the best calculated to convey to the Throne the senti ments of the House and of the Country. In voting for the - Address without any amendment, • he hoped he would not be considered as concurring with Mi• nisters; he thought that their misconduct was the cause of the prevailing discontent in the Country, and he looked upon the dismissal of the Earl Fitz.' william as having alienated from them the heart of' every honest man. Mr. CANNING.—The House had now heard the different opinions of every class in that House on the Address,- the Amendment, and the General State of the Country. He could not comprehend the reason-. ing or the policy which prepared the Gentlemen op posite to concur in the original Address, and yet to tack to it this Amendment. The first duty to be performed was to suppress the disaffection which was now allowed to be spreading. The Gentlemen . opposite did not think the simple Address sufficient to express their duty, without the aggravation in the Amendment. The individuals pointed at by this Address were to be told they were to be put down. but at the same time that a party in that House sy pathised with them. The numbers in the Minority (air he would contemplate a Minority) would be counted with the greatest anxiety by the objects of this Address ; they would see that a party in that Houk, thodgh not prepared to support their pretensions, yet were not determined to oppose them. He would wish for unanimity on this question, be cause he was certain that unanimity in carrying this Address would decide with tenfold certainty the im pression which would be made on the objects of the Address. This division would give these men called Radicals (he hoped he should not again in the course of the debate use the expression) . not only consolation , but hope. There were two distinct topics on that day—in one of which these great Aristocrats agreed with their associates, while on , the other hand they ;'differed: -; and, Oh, shame to Aristocracy! they con sented, humbly consented, to sink the point of diffe rence, and to dwell entirely upon that in which they were agreed. But what said the Amendment pro posed by the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Tierney) opposite, of their new allies? Why,• in the very words which he would read, they were admitted to be persons who were engaged in " schemes inju rious to themselves, dangerous to the public quiet, and inconsistent with the security of the Constitution:— And yet it was with these co-operators the great men of York shared the honours of the hustings, and with whom, on some points, they professed to entertain opinions in conjunction. What, now, was the doc trine of these great men as to those excesses? Deal kindly, say they, with their faults; endeavour to re ' cal them, by explanation, from their delusions; do not visit their transgressions with coercive measures, and returning, sense and tranquillity will be the result.l o,alcon days f peace when such golden glory can be realized o ßut why did not the great men of York, when they met the great rabble on their com-. mon hustings, convince them of their theoretical de lusions? Why did they not endeavour to recal the wanderers? Why did they enter into a compromise, to avoid the discussion, and remain determinedly silent? Had they done so, then indeed the sacrifice made at York would not have been made in vain—then, in deed, might they have felt a compensation in having saved their new allies from the ruinous consequence of their mischievous course, and the Constitution of the country from danger. Wholly opposite was their proceeding, directing, as they did, their con joint efforts to what was already decided, namely, the immediate assembling of Parliament, and avoid ing all reference, not even uttering a word on a ques tion which so essentially affected the Constitution. — In his conscience he believed, nay, he went further, and would say, that many of those who supported. the Resolutions at York, in their consciences believed that the effect of that Meeting must have given encouragement to those very schemes which the Amendment under consideration now rebuked. Mr. LYTTELTON rose to order. The imputation of a motive, such as that stated by the Right Hon. Gentleman, was disorderly—(Cries of Chair, chair). The SPEAKER observed, that to impute a motive was certainly disorderly; but, in his apprehension, the Right Honourable Gentleman did not put his. arguMent with that intention. Mr. CANNING—Most certainly the Chair took the view of the obsei4ation which was by him in tended, and he must be•allowed to state his conscien tious conviction, that the difference would be im. mense between acceding to the Address singly, and sending it out to the country qualified by an addition, which would haie the effect: of divesting it of its wholeseme harshness. He now proceeded to the great point of difference, naively, the transactions at Man chester; and, he now callednpon the House to review the course that question had taken before it reached theconsideration of Parliament. Let every Honour able Member reflect - oolis own previous feelings on that question aim festerday, and then sick -himself whether the legality 'F ilisgality •of that Meeting,. .wai not by' him the expected point of discussion that pniu4 had been disenssed on b oth= sides cif. riae,, 1 4-A(4114. :Until his explanation. that night, he under- . stood the Ifonoarablettentlemanoppolite (Mr. Scar lett): to agree.with his, Right:Hon. Friend (the *Attar ney-General) as to its illegality. If ,wrong hi this supposition, those who .contended it !vas illegal hid not the benefit of the )Elonciurabledentleman's opi nion, but they had that of his flight lion. Eriend near him (the Attorney-General), and not 'of alone, .but of every Lawyer who spoke upon question. In the Course of two nights' Debate, not one Lawyer In.theliouse had ventured to standup and maintain . that the Meeting at Manchester on the Ir Of August was not an illegal one. For its illegal, they had the opinion of his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Plunkett), who broughtto the investigation of every, subject a powerful miud, habits of deep investigationo anti that ; professional knowledge which must render his opinions valuable to the preseataige arid posterityw; Against all this there was only, a sort of conditional , negative on the part 'of the Hon. Gentleman oppo site (Mr. Scarlett). If, therefore, the question was - be decided by weight or tale, with all the weigin one scale, and only, at best, a negative quantity , the other, the House could not, for a moment, hesia• tate to pronounce the Manchester Meeting, on 16th day of August last, an illegal one. There were two reasons on which the Manchester question was pressed as a fit subject of investigation for House ; first, as being an attack upon the Constitt_ tion ; and, secondly, because inquiry was demanded by the Resolutions of various Meetings, in different : parts of the country. As to the first reason, without taking into consideration the many small spots of ground, occupied by di fferelic reasoners, he considered that as disposed of, by the admission that Meeting at Manchester was illegal---(Hear, hear). — The Resolutions were the next point to be considered. He had taken the trouble of looking into them, it was curious to observe that all the Meetings . which they were passed, set out with the assumption that the Meeting was a legal one. First came Westminster Meeting—(a laugh); with them the . semblage at Manchester was " perfhctly Constitu. tional. Next, the Corporation of London—that- - Body, with plenty of Lawyers, too—(a laugh); them the Meeting was " a Body leally assembled. Then came York, equally " legal ." Next Halif "assembled according to law. Richmond, rural Meeting—(a laugh), "legal and constitutional. Reading, " . perfectly legal." it was strange that further they receded from the Metropolis, the opinion of its legality increased. The Devon County Cl•-' he would not trouble the House with the Club's nion, though perhaps it was better to state it- Meeting not beyond the pale of the law"—(Hi hear ! from the Opposition). Now, he would giving all due authority to the expressed demands these Meetings thus convened upon grounds so totally false, had he not a right to presume, until those ' dies should again re-assemble, and though convir of the admitted illegality of the Meeting at chester should still continue in their support of solutions passed under a different impression, was not warranted in asserting that these Meetings • taken by surprise, and under a misconception ceeded to a decision that was no longer tenable And here it was impossible to overlook those flagrant misrepresentations by which the pubh, mind was worked up to such a degree of tnijustifi— able irritation. It happened to him from accident have taken the daily press on these transactions gross. No person, until he carefully applied .- self to the search, could ascertain their contradic tions, who was in the habit of perusing them in diem. He had taken, from the circumstance his absence, a strong dose of these diatribes, taking the most violent as the most candid, he dared solemnly to that House he never before a tissue of misrepresentations more atrocious C hear). 'The first proof of this fact that intnitu convinced him, was the statement that the Magis strates of Manchester were necessarily actuated embittered feelings towards the People, from circumstance of their being generally master nufacturers (Hear, hear). Happening to have connections in that part of the country, he personally knew, that however true such a circumstanc' might have been in any other county, it was • invariable rule in Lancashire not to put into Commission of the Peace persons connected manufacturing establishments--(Hear, hear, There was no person who bad ever conversed Lancashire man but could have informed himself the.fact; and he was not an honest man who '• not have inquired before he ventured she assertion (Cries of Hear, hear). This - atrocious statement passed current for many days ; when, lo ! there from the same source a tardy acknowledgement' the Magistrates were not manufacturers, accomr with the observation, that though the master facturers were not in the commission of the peace, -mem, built upon the falsehood, was not true. How many persons must have read the tion, who perhaps to that hour were not aware falsification? How many persons in the country whose suspicions were first aroused by this awake statement, remained up to the meeting of that ' under the influence of that delusive impression. Hon. Friend of his, for whom he ever should Min a sincere and unfading friendship, he. would don his name, or perhaps that was_ unnecessary ; be said the Member for York (the Honourable Liam Dundas) misled by one of those sources formation, had stated at the York Meeting, t swords of the Manchester Yeomen were sharpened for the Meeting of the 16th of August. That obser• cation ha . d been publicly retracted by his Honourable Friend, but in the mean time the Resolutions 4.. - bad passed. Those, no doubt, were disabused saw the denial, but it-came too late to prevent 'mischief it must have produced in the mf many. There was another assertion of a nature, made at the Norfolk Meeting, by a highest honour, whom every person that knew must respect. He stated, that a woman was by a soldier from the fury of the Yeomanry, circumstances too horrible to relate. - This, 1 other assertions, was retracted, but it should collected. that the Resolutions in these, and .eases, were passed in the interim between the mivation of the fileehood and the contradir If any man wal called upon to decide upon tions, perverted. b such Krdss pad terrible atograva. .041114, could be be considered, ansder •stsch ,iii a master of his passions? Could Public Bo e, . • . c ! . ' 1 • . . I tb,, i der-. ... _ Cal- ; ,1 this , 1- • '• hid . *- iend, i , hilts, ?„ e • th ._, one •-• 'l'. i • . and IGth7 ' , d i ity• ' 1 Mr. • I I very, ), ion,' . 4ler . i .i rity.' i • onal . I P 11 P. - . • as to . ,t in, , viii. iesii.. the . I 'here . i stion. • • the . : • Om . ? •aded • reek , bout.- ts of . lered • , .. , , the r).-- ered. • . and, gs in' ` • i. I ption • . . , . . 4 ' ' W e the e As stitu- • :I wise ; with . .. • . . bled." , ~ ; • Max, .1 that L t• .! Dnal." , at the . , 1 )inion' . - ;. , . 4 I tub—. s opi- I 1 —.. a t Hear, I, , ' l ask, 4 rids of 1 • :otally • . ~, L ~ , se Bo- • H winced Man- . • )f Re- was he , 1 . ,• • t . s were . 1 A pro - , -, - ble 7 , , :„. 1; r : ,-' e most ~ 1. d ij p en u ll s b tifi • to o t a . . I in the d him- ' • • itradic- de die trice of .. —. -i 1: ( 1 . rii, and t . . he de- re read k (Mear, natively • , Magis- ..e aced by ma the er ma- .. I ,1 , re some .1 minimally instance ;, , '•.., •••_. was an .; , i nto the . ed with , hear). .1.: ' I with a ~. i i rnself of . " o would , . assertion • . , atement , we came' - • . lent that - . i , mpanied • . r !mina- ' tice, the( • • t the less' he asser- • . are of its• . ~ country, - naming at House on. An. - - I kl enter- , . old men- ry, when .blii Wil- . ~ 1 , !, es of in- l' 1 that the ii II 1 ' iarpened • • at obser- I, ' , nourable a at York , wed who vent the , ininds of i ti, a similar • man of . i new him • . , 1 1 vas saved . . I, under 1 1, i like the - ; t ~ d be' re- ... - ' l l Lnd other 1 'I • I ' l . the dis*. , I fiction.-- • • a trinsic- leglrava. . ! j ileenc, • • N '''' 4kes, pro. • . •