Star. — London, England, 1805-02-09 00:00:00

• *,, wio have long been tnuftereJ front the fugitives on thtir native country, to carry on correfpom nee with their fellow traitors at home, and foment hie feeds of new rebellion ? Was there no reafon to be found in the recent exiflence of an open infurredion in the heart of that country, ex cited by the artifice of loch men ! Would any man fry there were not grounds, calling as loudly for the adoption c.rthis ineafore, as any which had induced tl.e Right Hon. Gentleman, in the mirk of the loft war, to vote, without feting the neceffity of previous enquiry, for any flrong meafures which hid his fandion and fupport. and I , hich he, Mr. Pitt, fin eel ely believed had proved t.*l . &ovation of the coon try ? The Right H••n. Goldman afked if the call ence of an Irilh Committee at Paris was a fufficient !talon for (attending the Habeas Corpus Aft gene rally towards the people of Ireland ? To this he anlwer, that the fapenfion was never meant to ()imam upon the loyalty of the country : but fu long :IN fyiletn was avowed and continued by the enemy, t I cciring dillurbance in Ireland, and carrying on a c• .t r eiltondence with traitors in the heart of the country, in long mid meafures of vigilance be maintained ; and fo long as the war las, and the enemy canti nas: in the fame difpolition, the necefary meafures of precaution ought not to ceafe. The Right Hon. 'Gentleman had not ventured to tell him that the foarces of (edition were dried up, and therefore be hula not blame him, if he hill maintained the fame principles unchanged, to which that Right Honour able Gentleman had formerly given, and he trufted would again give, his (import . . The Right Hon. Gentleman alked, if the great majority of the peo ple of Ireland were to be fubjeded to the feverity of this Meafure, on account of the feditiuus few ? 'lbis was the fame dungy weapon that had been former ly ufed again' the Right Hon. Gentleman himfelf, when fimilar meafures had his fupport, but which weapon be always manfully oppofed and baffled with his wonted ability. He well remembered the lan huage oppofed to the Right Honourable Gentleman imfelf formerly, and which might be repeated againft the prefent meafure. It might be Paid, that it was libelling the loyalty of the majority in pairing general meafures to meet the miliondud of the few. But the Right Hon. Gentleman always met fuch ar foments with his wonted ability and difcernmcnt.— He well knew that what was termed the voice of the great majority was nothing more than the clamour of the (editions few, and that the real majority of the nation were convinced of die neceffity of thole mea fures againft which that clamour was direded.— That the great majority of the people of Ireland were loyal and well &poled, he had no inclination to doubt ; there was room to hope that a majority of that who had been (educed into the late rebellion, were under the zeal of republican principles, gene rated by the French Revolution, had feen their error in the confequences of that revolution, and changed their fentiments. There were reafon to hope the loyalty of the generous Catholic felt no attachment to that man who had trampled upon all the religions of Europe, but molt of all upon his, by the folemn mockeries to which he had perverted the ceremonies of that religion, to cover the atrocities of his own tifurpatian. There was reafon to hope the defperate fituation of Europe, and the plunder, depopulation, and defpotifm, under which every nation, vifited by the hordes of France, now groaned, had opened the eyes of all orders of people, and taught them to de precate the horrors of Frenc h alliance ; yet although there was a great majority of the people whole loy alty was attached and unfhaken, would the Right Honourable Gentleman contend that there was no inifehicvotis minority in the country, who, though unable of themfelves to effed their purples, would yet he ever ready to combine with any enemy who could effelt a landing, for the purpofes of pulling down that majority, and Peeking to climb to power upon the ruins of their country? It was the duty, therefore, of the Legiflature to direi9 all its caution to this point, and to protect the loyal againft the rill( of filch a conflid. With regard to tie enquiry monied, the notoriety of the tit cuniflances on which this meafure was founded, made all reatiming on that fubj:a roperfluous. Among the ohjedions to filch an enquiry, he could not avoid noticing the danger with which it mull be attended. What was the tort of invefligation required ? It was to examine into the fecret deigns of the enemy, and the links anon nedion by which they were united to the difaffeded in Ireland. He had great confidence in the purity and patriotifm of all the Members of that Houle ; but fome allowance mull be made fur the tcndernels of the feelings of all men, when the confequence of the difclofure of fome keret intercourse is the fact i fice of the life of the perfnri immediately concerned. If the general Hate of affairs, as publicly known, were fufficient to jullify the meafure, the examina tion by a Committee would be inefficient and impo litic. With rrlped to notice, it was not corred to fay the Honfe had not been apprized of this propofi tion ; notice was given lonic time fence, but it was thought to be preferable to polipone the matter until a time of more leilure ; and we were now arrived at the moment when it would be inexpe'lient to Puffer any further procrallinatian. He had now adverted to the grounds of Hs opinion; he had frankly es poled the principle on which lie veiled the propofal. Mr. WIXDHAM, in explanation, Paid, that he had n..t ated that be w mild in no circumliances uorcur in the lapenlion of the Habeas Corpus An initittiting a Committee of Inquiry, but this t .'id lay, and was ready to maintain, that upon t nr. , nr.ds as thole which were Rated for the Mo • Lefere the Houle, it would be quite unjullifik I,! r acLedeto that Motion without rrevions ingniry. Mr. FOX t ote and I poke to the following put pot t V••d., Sir, os I have been alarmed, and have had to reg• et the opinions avowed, and the conduct putiiied by the Minifters of this country fur leveret years back, particularly while headed by the Right Honourable Ce tleman who now prefides over the Adminillration of his Majefty's Government, yet I confefs that I Lave never felt an equal degree of alarm to that which the fentiments he has jolt uttered have excited in my mind. I Resold hope, Sir, that he did not Speak tiri °idly. If he did—if be really and deliberately holds Inch fentiments, I moll fay that I confider him as maintaining principles the mull alarming that I hare ever heard promulgated in this linute or this country, and fi lch as I could fcarcely foppole it pollible that any man who imagined the pe is of England re :l,ihed any degree of regard kr their liberties would women to declare, or who praeffed even a refped . . (for the fpirit of Cite flr dlh Conflitiatioti would hear !without pain. If the dodrines which the Right Honourable Gentleman has this night avowed, be thofe upon which he means to ad, and if he Should obtain power fufficient to carry them ihto died, bow melancholy is the profped for this country. But per. haps the Right Hon. Gentleman meant to ufe the declarations I have referred to merely as a defence againft the arguments of my Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Windham), and not as the indication of a fet tled opinion. If even fo, they were inefficient to the purpofe of filch defence, and they certainly went mach beyond any principles avowed by the Right Hen. Gentleman or any of his colleagues, during the laft war ; yet they were not incontinent with thole principles. They were different from, though not contrary to the nature of thole maxims which diflated that mifchievous murk of policy towards the people and their privileges, that it was my uni form endeavour to deprecate and prevent. Indeed, the Right Hon. Gentleman himfelf never attempted to go the length he has hazarded to-night. He never before ventured to maintain that becaufe fame of the people were bad fobjeas, the liberty of the whole people Should be placed at the difcretion of the Mi. nifier and his agents by the fufpenfion of the Habeas Corpus Ad. With this Ratement he has coupled fomething which he meant as a reply to the argu ments of my Right Honourable Friend (Mr. Wind. ham), and as a charge upon me and thofe Gentle men who ailed with me in refitting the frequent mo tions for the fufpeolicin of the Habeas Corpus AO, which in the courfe of the laft war were carried through this Houle. The Right Honourable Gen tleman Rated that my Right Honourable Friend has had recourfe, on this occafion, to that which he himfelf to often baffled before, when ufed by my friends and me, and which the Right Hon. Gentle man calls a " clumfy dilemma." But I would tell him, arid my Right Hon. Friend alio, that it was not the dilemma we (fated they fucceedcd in refuting, but it was the clumfy mifreprefentaion of that di lemma, againft which they dirated their objeftions. We never did maintain, that, while the majotity was loyal, there could be no neeeffity fur a meafnre timi lar to that now before the Houfe. We never would have offerted any thing fo abfurd and clumfy, that the loyalty of a mere majority formed an argument againft the adoption of any meafure: of precaution againft the dilaffeCtion of a mere minority. We never even faid that the loyalty of a conliderable ma jority would furnith an irrefiaible objeftion to inch mealirres. Our rcafoning was uniforailv grounded upon the degree and nature of the dilloyalty al legded to caul, which we did not conceive filch as to juflify the harth fyftem of proceeding the Right Hon Gentleman was then purfuing. But it fuited the Right Hon. Gentleman's purpofe to give ano ther defcription to our opinions, and again ft that other and unjuft dcfcription his arguments were always le. welled. The Right lion. Gentleman and his col leagues appeared to me in every inftance, to Rate in fufficient grounds to call for the rigorous meafures of the IA war, but yet almoft any pounds they urged at any time, were fufficiency itfelf, compared to thole that are laid for the meafure now propofed. How is the 'late of Ireland dcfcribed, even by thofe who fuppert this propofition? Why, that it is in general, and particularly in the Province of Ultler, which is by far the 1110 n populous and important dinria of the country, and once the moft lanceted of difloyal. ty, as found, as welhdifpofed, and as loyal as any part of England. Here then, we have a comparifin made that enables ns to decide as to the nature of the neceffity that exills for the farther continuance of fuch a Bill. Here e e have a rule and meafure to guide our judgment—and, what is molt extraordinary, fur. niffied to us by the very men, who, notwithtlanding, alien the necetlity of this meafure. But their realon for the affertion is truly curious—"becanfe there are tome difaffe.Red perfons in the country." And where is it, I (honld be glad to know, that fuch perfons are not to be found ? Are there not bad fithit:ets of every , kind to be met with, perhaps in every part of Eng land? Yet cutely, no man will venture to alledgc that as a reafon for extending the operation of the meafure before the Honk to this country. Perhaps I,me one may be found to do fo. Poffibly !he Right Hon. Gentleman may feel difpnfed to urge Lich a propnfition. if he should entertain the wall, moll certainly the adoption of the motion of the Hon. Baronet will afford him a moll encnuraging prece dent. Unieis it be pretended that the meafoie of jua;ee which is due to the people of Ireland is very different from that which belongs to the people of this country, and that different, nay eonti :try prin ciples of argument are applicable to the two coun tries, it cannot be laid that the Englith nation en joys the leaf fecurity againft the fufpenfion of its Conflittition at the will of any Dlinilter, if :he motion fubmitted by the Honourable Baronet be acceded to upon inch flight grounds, or rather upon no, grounds whatever. I have Elated, that I fee not the kali necetlity for this propolitinn, and I always Rated upon fimilar propofitions in the courfe of the laft war, that I never law an adequate neceffity for adopting them. This statement my full conviaion jullifies me in repeating, and I fay again to the Right Honourable Gentleman, and to my Right Honourable Friend that they never fucceeded in their reafoning againft my friends and me, but by initiating our argument. We continually put the queflion which naturally fuggelted idea' to our m inds, and which my Right Honourable Friend has very properly put to night, namely, of what , confecpienct is the difenntent or difaffeftion of a ree it the great body of the people be found and loyal ? Certainly, the confequence is not fuch as to warrant the Itifpcnflon of public liberty—and I never imagined that any man would have the har dihood to Wert in this Hotife, that it was. Bat the Right Honourable Gentleman has exceeded my expeetatirm. In the Jliole progrefs of his hoftility to freedom, and the Conflitution of England, never has he uttered any thing fo dangerous and alarming as we have heard from ban to-night. Never has he at tempted to take fo great a flride before. In addition to the exiftence of difaffellion in Ireland, the Right Honourable Gentleman states another reafon for the adoption of the meafure under confideration, and it is this, which he defcribed in ve, y lofty terms — that we are engaged in war, with an enemy who threatens tv dettioy mtr Conflitution and indepen dence. I would aik, utre we ever at war with any power, particuLtly in France, that was not willing to ;Lamy our independence, aye, quite as willing as the prefent Government of France ? I never heard that we were. It was, however, refereed for the Right Honourable Gentleman to maintain that war is a good ground for futpending the Habeas Corpus Aft. But the Right Honourable Gentleman Oates, that the enemy threatened Ireland with an invafion ; and did he not alto threaten Great Britain ? Both thefe reafons, therefore, are as applicable to the one coun try as the other, and would, as I laid before, equally fullain the mention of the meafure before the Houle to both countries. When reafons of that fort, there fore, are flayed, I mull feel as much alarm for Great Britain as fur Ireland. I approve highly the true and generous fentiments (and there is no fentitnent generous that is not true), that have been expreffed by the Honourable Baronet who moved the amend ment. He feels a laudable tendcrncfs and folicitutle for Ireland, and to do I. But I feel alfo for Great Britain, and who knows how foun it may be doomed to Puffer from the effeas of that principle, which the Right Honourable Gentleman reeks to eftablith in the adoption of the motion before the Houle. That Right Honourable Gentlemen would, I prefume, he the hill to deny, that there exifted as strong grounds to apprehend an invafion of Great Britain as of Ire land ; or even according to his own opinions fome• thing more. Different opinions prevailed as to the probability of invafion but in the mind of the Right Honourable Gentleman, there teemed to be no doubt that it would take place. Indeed, notwith (landing the dote blockade of Bret}, and the vigilant aftivity of our fleets and cruizers, with the ;net cafe of our land force, which none profeffed a delve to increafe further than the Right Honour-Ale Gentle man, Oil was he haunted by the apprehenfion, and loudly proclaiming the probability, that an ;ovation of Great Britain was to be expeded from day to day. This I mention, merely to thew, that at lead, in the judgment of the Right Honourable Gentleman, there cads a good reafon, in his view, for the fafpenfion of the Habeas Corpus Aft in Great Britain, as well as in Ireland ; and alto to account for the alarm which I think mull be univerfally excited by the opi nions he has delivered inthe courfe of 'lds debate.— If we are to be told, that although the people of Ire land are as loyal as click of any county in England, that becaufe tome perfons in Ireland are alledged to he difalFeeled—that we are engaged in a war, tee.— an invafion of Ireland is to be apprehended--we are, without any other reafon, and without any previous examination of the nature and fufficiency of the grounds Rated, to alfent to the motion of the Ho nourable Baronet. Then I fay, adieu to the teen city of Britith freedom—adieu to that Habea , . Uor pus A 8 which is the proudeft boat} and noblefl guard of the Conftitution. tithe Right Honourable Gentleman and thofe who ael with him ferioufly think that the grounds they urge are fullicient to war rant the fufpenfion of the Habeas Corpus Aft, when, I would requeft to know—l don't mean as to date— but under what circumflances is that important pri vilege to be revived ? Upon looking over the hillory of this Ad, I find that when, in former Mita:ices, it was thought neceffary to litlpend its operation, that fufpenfion was hut of very thort duration. In the reign of Qeen Anne it was fufpended twice ; and during the reign of the two foil branches of the Houfe of Brunfwick, it was fufpended more than once. I find that from the Revolution down to the Treaty of Aix-la-Chapelle this important privilege was not withdrawn from the Britith People In often as during a very few years of the Adminiftration of the Right Honourable Gentleman. And yet during the period that intervened, the Country was fre• quently engaged in war—frequently threatened with invafion, and was much diflurbed by ditiffation alto —a ditaffeeion which fprung, not from Jacobins. but Jacobites.—The latter party, I mutt obfervc, was quite as refolute and enterptifing as the former, and much flronger in numbers, influence, property and power. What a material difference does this refleCtion ma nifeft between the charafter and views of the Right Honourable Gentleman, and that of any Nliniiter wbo preceded him! The Right Honourable Gen tleman contends that notoriety is a to:tit:lent ground Int. Parliament to proceed Non, without inlittuting a Committee of Inquiry. Fle has In contended on other occations—!ant did he and others who thought with him, argue that what they called the notoriety of difaffeCtion, at the commencement of the laft war, was an adequate ground to induce Parliament to agree to a meafin e of the fame nature as the pre fent ? No. And though that notoriety was gene rally affertcd by the Right Honourable Gentleman and his friends, and by none, perhaps more than by my Right Honourable Friend—and I mention that for the purple of defending him aping( the obfer vations jolt made by the Right Honourable Gentle man—although the notoriety was loch as was laid to be obvious in the public streets, yet Minifiers did not attempt to apply to Parliament tor a fufpention of the Habeas Corpus AB, without intlittoing Committee of Inquiry to examine and report upon the information which Government poffeind. That Committee made a Report to the Houk, and upon that Report the propofal for the tut - pennon of the Ha beas Corpus AO was grounded This was the courfe of proceeding which my Right Hon. Friend fupport ed, and this is the courfe which he recommends now. Can it be Paid, then, with any degree of fairnefs, that the leaft degree of inconfiftency is attribittableto him for oppoling a motion of filch importance as the prefent, which is nthered into the Houle by the mere flatement of a Minitter, and that statement itfelt con taining fuch vain and futile grounds. The patting, of this aft eighteen months ago, without any previous inquiry, cannot be justly urged as a precedent to in duce even thole who agreed to it, to accede to the prefent motion, for the circumftances arc not at ail analogous. The alarm created by the intelligence received of the riot in Dublin, afforded fome excufe for the precipitancy with which the propofition of Minifters was then adopted. It was carried on the fpur of the occafion, and lonic might have hoped, that when there was time, Miniflers would commu nicate more latistaaory grounds for the cxiftence of fuch a meafure, or that the Route would inflitute an inquiry to afiertain the necefEty of its continuance. Thefe ideas might have influenced the acquiefcence of fome Gentlemen in the condo& they 'her. purfned. But my Right Hon. Friend took a different and'a wifer courfe. He urged the aeceftity of previous in quiry, and had I been prefent, I fhould have artaialy supported him. although I should have to refill the argument of another Right. Hun. Fei cil d o f mine, who underßand maintained that the Bill for Saf. pending the Habeas Corpus AA &mild, under flick circumllances, be immediately paired. [Here Mr. Sheridan, towards whom Mr. Fox looked, fignified his diffent.] Then, refumed Mr. Fox, lam glad it is a millake. I am happy to find that my Right Hon. Friend was not among the number of thole who were deceived in the expeflations which induced them to vote for that meafure ; which, although it has been now IS months in exillence, no inquiry has been intlituted, nor have Mimi ers communicated any further information to the Wok on the fithjeft than what was contained in his Majelly's Nlefrage. That my Right Honourable Friend was light, not with(' anding the flatement of the Right 'Laminable Gentleman, in ftippofing that this meafure way dropped, will nog, I think, be denied by any candid man who ct.nliders the citcumhances. After having given notice of the motion fume time hack, the Hon. Baronet put it cif fee die. The Right Honourable Gentleman has laid, that the reafon of that pollpone ment was the prefs of bufinefs ; but that need not have prevented the Honourable Baronet from men ' tinning fome day for bringing it forward again. The omigiun to do In appears to be fomething like a defign to take the Houle by furprife, or to raife an argu ment out of the ihortnefs of the time between tois and the expiration of the an' againft the delay of any previous inpuiry. If, without fuch inquiry, you enaft this meafure, upon the mere flatement of a Mi filler, upon loch evidence, as, according to the prin eple of the Right Hon. Gentleman, is fufficient to ethblifh the ntceffity of a Legiflative aft of this na.- tare—namely, the view and opinion of his M Minillers, you may as well pats an Aft at once to in vett the Executive Government with the power to fufpend the Habeas Corpus A 8 whenever it pleases. I'o appeal to this Houle for an Alf of the defcription propofed by the Honourable Baronet, upon fuch au thority as he has mentioned, is quite a mockery ; and to anfwer that appeal by concurring in that Al,f will, in my mind, amount to little lets than a virtual aban donment :four legiflative fonflions. For what means an at.plication to our judgment, unaccompanied by filth informatirm as is nectfrary to qualify that judg ment to decide ? I cannot underhand the cur ions dif rineVon which the Right Honourable Gentl-Aran has drawn with refpeft to the character of Lord Hard wicke, as applied to this meal:ire. My Right Ho nourable Fi lead hated manfully, that the chat-after of any man, however pure, could fOrm no reason to his mind to invert that man with arbitrary power. This is exaftly my opinion. But the R;glit Honour. able Gentleman lays, that lie only alluded to the cha ta.fter of Lord Hardwickc, as an argument againft the abide of the power which this Aft is meant to ettablifh, hut as not at all applicable to the nitt its of the meafure. This is to me A very nice and vet y ; for the ttrongeft raafon in favour of any grant of power is, that k is not liable toabule. —Therefore, when the Right Honourable Gen tleman a.ferts fo much with regard to the difpofition and charafter of Lord Hardwicke, he is flrongly re commending this meafure ; but yet his panegyric upon that Noble Lord, were it ever th well baindeds would have no influence on my mind in favour of this propclition. I know there are certain theorifls who hold the maxim that the molt uncontrouled authority may be granted without danger to an honeft, able man—nay, that an abfolute monarchy is the belt fyttem of Government, if the Monarch were pollif fed of all the virtues and talents of which man is capable, but lam not one of thofe theorifls. Let the difpofition of a man be what it may, I will not content to invert him with extraordinary, unc miti tutional powers, for this plain reafon—that it is fub jai to abufe. The virtue of a man is, therefore, no .srrotnient with me in favour of fuch grant s , b c c a ufe . I learn from the hillory of mankind, becaufe particu larly the itiltory of the Conflitution, and my own ex perience, forbid fuch grants. lam impelled to dread the abufe of power to whomfoevcr it may be given. There are my icafons for not allowing any weight to the argument, drawn from the character of Lord Hardwicke. Into that charaaer itfelf I will not now I I enter. 1 have teafons which form flronger grounds of complaint againit that Noble Lord in my mind, than I perhaps they would form in the minds anthers. I t (hall not now mention them. It is enoughwith me to ' jnilify the vete I mean to give againft the meafure under con tideration, that I will not intruti Inch power t to any man. If charafter wer e a lufri z i eu r rea t' Gn die conflitut ion of filch a power, t!tat reaf.ta a • Mini!ter cotild always find among the uchility fa country. II Lord Hardwicke did nor answer, ano• • titer and another nobleman of unexceptirnable ;ha t railer could be immediately found to till his place. I • cannot, therefore, Mien to fuch reafunirg. My ob jeflion is, to grant the power propefed to the otEce, not to the man. As the Right Honourable Gentleman h,.; not hint ed when the mealure before the Houle is likely to ceafe, I fuppnfe, from tome obfervations of his, that it is his intention that it [hall continue duti-g die pre• fent war, and nothing more likely that he may pro. pok to extend it to this country. If he pleales to do in, he can adduce reafons quite as Itrong as he has offered in fupport of the motion of the Honourable Baronet; and why thould it he prefumed that the Right Hon. Gentleman is net as fond of enjoying extraordinary power himfelf in this country, as of granting it to any Lord Lieutenant Ireland being now admitted by all to be in a general hate of tran quillity, I cannot conceive what change in her fou -1 ation can take place that is likely to induz the Right Hon. Gentleman to put an end to :V. ,dious mea fure. If, although Ireland he tranquil, the exiSl ence if what is called an hills Committee at Paris, be conlidered a reafon for meafures like that before the Houle, then is the French Government furnilhed with the means of perpetually and folely annoying this country, by depriving the people of their li berty. For that Government has nothing mere to do than to create, or to promulgate, the eciftence of an Irith and an Englifh Committee alto, and upon that it kerns, combined with the popular dikon tent which inch meafures as this under difeullion will always prnshice, an Englifh Minilter may found a realm& for inverting himfell and his friends with the extraordinary power of fufpend inz the Confli:ution of England. Among other tingular and indeed incredible things ; we are told by the fupporters of this bill, that the majo :icy of the people of Ireland will gladly hear of its rc-enaFtment, becaufe they ate lb confident of its ucceflity, and they are fo much attacked to Lord I II 1