Star. — London, England, 1825-05-07 00:00:00

. „ Ir• M 1 i 1. t a I ~ •' ': {„. j . '¼ spatting die mount of the Bank issues. On that occa sion the Hon. Humber stated the dissent of the Bank to maks say seek retsina—lle (Mr. Grantee) wished to know whether the same objection still remained in the part of the Bank and if that establishment would now supply Parliament with die informatian alluded to? Mr. MANNING, who spoke iq a very low tone of voice, stated, that the ground on which the Bank last year refused the returns was, that the restric tion of cash payments having aces_ remov ed, there appeared no more right to demand a state ment of the affairs of the Bank of England than of • those of any other banking.house In Lotnhard•street. For hit own part, the opinion he entertained on the subject remained unchanged; at the same time be did not undertake to say that the Bank would refuse to make Parliament acquainted with the amount of its issues, if the sense of the House required it so to do. Last year those issues v:, t e about twenty millions of Bank notes, and they did not exceed that sum by more than two or three hundred thousand pounds. On the motion of the Loan Anvocaru, the House resolved itself into a Committee on the Scotch Judicature Bill. After which the Report was brought up, and ordered to be taken into further wan derstion on Monday se night. Sir GEORGE HILL obtained leave for the Irish Linen Trade Conimittee to Report their proceedings. The Right Honourable Bironet accordingly brought up the Report, which was laid on the table. A Message from the Lords announced their Lordships assent to several Private Bilk. Mr. BERRIES brought up the Report of the Committee on the Isle of Man Acts, and leave was given to bring in a Bill con formably to the Res olutions of the Committee. Mr. S. RICE presented a Petition from the Chamber of Com merce, Ste. of the City of Limerick in favour of the Provincial Banks' Bill. The further consideration of the Customs Laws Bill, the Naviga tion Bill, the Smuggling Prevention Bill, and the Isle of Man Trade Bill, was postponed to Tuesday next. The Irish Exchequer Seal Bill was read a ,seeond time, and ordered to be committed on Tuesday next. Mr. COURTENAY brought in the Lunacy and Infants' Trus tees' Bill, which was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Monday next. it was then moved and carried, that the House en its rising, Adjourn to Monday next. On the motion of Mr. Gouutuas, the Report of the Irish Chan cery Court Bill was brought up, the Amendments read a second time, and ordered to be read a third time on Wednesday next. CATHOLIC BILL. Mr. BROUGHA M moved the Order of the Day for the House resolving itself into a Committee on the Catholic Relief Bill. On the question that the Fp:aker do leave the Chair — General GASCOYNE rose at present merely to advert to some points connected with the Catholic Bill which lia:1 not been generally noticed. Two distinct measures were introduced as adjuncts to Emancipation which he was justified in considering as parts of the whole subject—he meant the Bill fur regulating the Elective Franchise in Ireland, and for paying the Romish Clergy. The three Bills should receive his decided opposition. If the House were prepared to adopt the principle of disfranchisement, it would com mence an Augean labour, for he could not conceive where the inter Terence was to stop. Every man knew that in the nature of aings the landlord exerci .ed an influence over his tenant, and the master over his work man, and he therefore was at a loss to c on c eive an y just termination to the operation of such a law. In another respect he might observe, that the man most sanguine of long life could never hope to tee the object of this 8.1 l completely realized ; for although it pro posed to give an immediate security by disqualifying 250.000 vlectors, the present generation must pass away etc that security was really available. The t.ther Bill —if Bill he might call it—when, although allowed to be brought in, had tot yet been introduced, was for granting a sum of money annually to the Roman Ca 'holm Clergy. Th.: Noble Lord, in short, had come down contrary to the usage of the Constitution, and called for a vote without the sanction of a responsible Minister of the Crown,who uniformly demanded supp'ies it the instance of the Sovereign. Was it then to be con sidered that although the Minister had hot made the pro position, still it received his official approval, and would be concurred in afterwards, if adopted, by the Execu tive Authority ? The motion, ho.wever,of the Noble Lard, appeared to him (Gen. Gascoyne) as a sort cf flank company, advanced to cover ulterior operations, and not intended to do more than discharge a random shot. He was sorry, nevertheless, to see such an appa rept acquiescence of Ministers in the measure before the afose of Parliament had been ascertained. The authors of those laws it was now sought to repeal would, if living, have teen with dismay and surprise, any Bill resembling the Noble Lord's brought into the House without the sanction of a responsible Minister; and he (General Gascoyne) thought with the country, that ad junct would be a most material objection to the granting Cathol'c Emancipation, particularly as the enlightened part of the country were divided upon the latter ques tion, and /-10ths of the mass of the people decidedly against it—(beer). What too was the state of this House regarding Emancipation? Honourable Members could • not expect a dissolution to be far distant—another year at farthest would see the demi e of the present Parlia ment; and were Honourable Gentlemen sure, it they passed this measure, that next Parliament would ap prove of the proceeding ? He begged to say he had no wish for a dissolution—(Hear)—it was generally at tended with trouble—(Hear) —but neither had he any apprehension for the event—(Hear). All he wished to chew was, that this was not a fit moment for deciding . .so momentous a subject. If the advisers of the Crown thought otherwise, then they ought to dissolve the Par liament forthwith, and submit it to the succeeding Re presentatives of the People. Nothing, however, he re peated, could make Emancipation so unpopular as coupling it with a Bill for paying the Romish Clergy ; and he must further obserye, , that whatever was the state, of Ireland now, it had always hitherto been much the same—with a strong tendency to outrage and re bellion. He confessed, when he saw the Attorney-Ge neriV for Ireland,- almost on the same night that he moved the third reading of the Bill for suppressing the Catholic Association, the favourite organ of the Ca-' tholica, support the Catholic Relief Bill, he could not help considering the latter as a sort of bounty on dis afieetiem If the ptople of England were reconciled to this Bill; and any means could be devised for ascertaining that fact, be would be as ready as any man to sad—let it pass. He was conkdent, bow ever,-that this was not the case, and that the House were pro ceeding precipitately into an evil course, without tat knowledge which ought to be the ground-work of the measure. It was not his intention to oppose the motion for the House going into a Com mittee, although he litad thought it proper to.deliver his sentiments before•tbat took place. Sir THOMAS LETHBRIDGE said, he hoped he would be able to convince the House that a revisions of their decision should take place in this stage of the proceedings. This measure legislated upon legislation, and went to repeal .an oath solemnly taken by the Members of the House in the presence of each other, and which doubtless every Member recollected; but is case any Member might not be perfectly in possession of the precise words, be would take leave to ask that the Clerk of the House do read the oaths of Abjuration and Supremacy, befdre he'proceeded. (The Clerk then acid the oaths). Now if it turned out that the passing of the Bid 'would -oloarly viotigibet Ohth, he thous ► tcould be no 'doubt as to the ries* of the goes* e rs Wig cemmiiird. He lookial at the objection with regard to the otitis in two Points.' he first was, thiatvrery Member, wbetehe *rat • *cod to a seat in that House, entered into an implied aontract with the ple of Elgland, that he would support the Cot ititu don in Church and State, is it existed at the moment of his election. And he apprehended that no one could get rid of that contract, because the people were aware of what the oaths were at the time they sent a Member to that House, for they 'were not so ignorant as some persons for the sake of argument bad. hinted—they knew and thooght, arid he bad no doubt they were sensible, that Members could not proceed in support of this Bill without violating the oath they had taken. But there was another, and he thought a more forcible argument. In the terms of the oath they bound them.' selves to resist the interference of any foreign Prince in all matters spiritual and ectlesiastical, and yet they' were about to give their consent to the formation of a Committee of Bishops before engaged by path to serve and obey a foreign S rvereign., He apprehended that this was a difficulty the House ; geoid not get over, without violating the oath by which they were bound. And he defied any one, although he might defend it on some ground of technicality, to support it in the sense of plain honest feeling—(Hear). And he must con tinue the hope, although be confessed it was a faint one, that they would pause and consider before they con sented to stultify the proceedings of Parliament. When he looked to the preamble, which said so much upon permanence and inviolability, he felt himselt bound, al though he knew the talent by which it would be sup-., ported by the Honourable Baronet (Sir F. Burdett) whom he did not afire tee in his place, and the power by which he might be answered by the Honourable and Learned Gentleman on the floor (Mr. Brougham) who could give to any measure a character and appearance which did not belong to it—he felt it, he repeated, his duty to pull that preamble to pieces, and expose the inconsist ency of those who framed it. This preamble commen ced by declaring an intention to preserve inviolate the Church and State as at present established; but did the House recollect that there was a clause in the Aci of Union with Scotland, excluding all Papists from being returned as Members from Scotland ? So that in the event of the Bill for the Relief of the Roman Catholics passing into a law, they would have the strange anomaly of Papist Members being returned from Ireland and not from Scotland. He would not, however, dwell longer upon this part of the preamble, but pass to another, whet e, after speaking of the sacrifice of Mass, it goes on to say that spiritual and religious belief shall not affect the allegiance of his Majesty's subjects. Why is it that they are celled upon to make that provision ? Why, on account of the creed of the Roman Catholics—a creed which, and he honoured them for it, they would support even to their death ; but a creed which bound them to pay allegiance to a foreign Sovereign in all matters, both spiritual and temporal. To talk, therefore, of allegiance, unless they meant a divided allegiance, was to speak in ref ms directly the opposite of to uth.— A great deal of talent and ingenuity had been exerted to contradict the proposition of the Pope's spiritual and temporal autliotity : but if the Catholics con• seined to tike the oath of supremacy in temporal mat ters, he did not know why they could object to the spiritual, unless, as they had said, they would rather not. itad, however, any staunch Papist been ever asked to take this oath ? He would venture to say that no one would take it—(Hear) —unless he ini,under stood the nature of their faith—(Hear, hent,)which per haps he did—(f-tear, hear, hear)—he would venture to say that no severe Papist would. In the evi fence of Thctor Doyle, he found that the Right Reverend Prelate, upon being asked if .he had taken an oath to ihe Pope? replied that he had ; but upon being goes firmed as to the nature of i., extraordinary to say, he was unable to recollect any part of it—any portion of that oath upon which the whole objeceons connected with that part of the q •estion hinges. He (Dr. Doyle) said, however, that he could get a pontifical. He l(Sir T. Lethbridge) did not know what that meant, but that he could get a pontilica'—he supposed a copy of the oath, from the Vicar Apostolic, who was at that time in town. No one, however, had seen that copy, or knew whether it hid been presented ; but he had procured a copy himself, which he would read to the House, without, however, pledging himself for its accu racy, although he believed it to be titre: " I swear from this time to be faithful and obedient to the Head of the Church of Rome ; to assist to the'utmost of my power in supporting and preserving the tenets of the Holy Roman Catho.ic faith ; to obseive and obey, and assist in making others observe and obey, the ordi nances of the S ivereign Pontiff, and to receive all his canons and ordinances, as well as the decrees of the Council of Trent." How could these Bishops, a'ter taking this oath, abjure by another the Pope's temporal authority ? Was it not almost compelling them to per jute themselves? But he would not pursue the subject farther. He thought it a very material point, and that the framing of . such a contradict( ry Act was not very creditable to the wisdom of Parliament. There was another point, with regard to the Committee of Bishops, upon which he wished to offer a few observations. In that Council, which was called upon to advise the Sovereign, there were no Protestant Counsellors, as in former Bills—they 'had it all their own way, and were permitted to regulate all matters connected with Church and State, uncontrouled even by the Sovereign himself. How unlike such a proceeding was the prac tice of their forefathers? they went upon the principle of security. Tue Protestant Gentlemen of the present day too profess t 6 support the Protestartt Church and State, as by law established ; but he would tell them, that by consenting to allow such a Commission of Bishops, they were acting as inconsistent with these feelings, and as much at variance with their professions, as the East is removed from the West. For these Bishops, -if anything favourable to the Government' came to their knowledge, were to cemmunicate it to his Majesty; but if any thing treasenbble came :tri their knowledge—if anything inimical either to Church or State came to their knowledge, they were allowed to keep it to themselves. in short, it ever there was * Bill full of vicious principles in legislation, it. was the one they were now called upon to consider in a Com . .. snittee. It had been said that the Catholics were different now from what they had been about a century ago in Irv. land; but he deified that point; and contended, that the molt they inquired, either in Ireland oconthe Coetineat of Europe, with respect to the feelings of the Catholics, the more they would be convinced not only that their ' feelings and principles remained unchanged; but thit they bad acquired strength by time.: - He hadilt was true,-esainined the evidence taken before the Commit- 1 see, and seen in it much which militated against such 'an opinion;"bee be could not help observing, how- . ever, that the; wimp seemed to have cope getteral feeling, and to be careferir looking to the majn Chance. He had selected one of 'two observations helm:Dr. Ogles evidence, which 'might tend to . support his opinions. The Hon. Bart. here read several parts Of Dr. Doyle's evidence. in which be stated that the: Pope, even in the ease of a provision being made for the Ca tholic Bishops, had a power to appoint to the See— that he had the power to make ordinances and regula tions without the consent of the King—that he had had the nomination of Bishops since the end of the reign of the Stuarts; and that the power could not be separated, from the Papal Chair. The question of provision for the Clergy had been, he rather thought. put an end to, but he would ask how they would like such an inter ference in the disposition of Sees endowed by English generosity ? If the Roman Catholics were admitted into Parliament, would they not seek a restoration of the property which they supposed to have been wrongfully wrested from them? To chew that the tenets of the Roman Catholics of the present day were the same a; those of the Roman Catholics of former periods, he would state the instance of a farmer lately, inYorkshire, who was tenant to a Roman Catholic, one of the condi tions of whose lease was, that prayers by a Protestant Dissenting Minister should not be said in his house.— He would also beg . to adduce the conduct of Dr. Troy, Roman Catholic Archbishop of Dublin. who published a pastoral letter in Dublin, in which he permits the reading of the Scriptures only when accompanied with Douay annotations. • In those notes would be found such sentiments ac discouraged communion or society with any sect of Christians who differed from them, the Roman Catholics. it inculcated the burning of all he retical books, inclusive of the Protestant 13.b1e ; it incul cated further, an avoidancenlProtestanas, as their ways were otiotagisirs, and said that their prayers reached not the Kingdom of Heaven, and were not• snore regarded than the howling of wolves-I.(Heariond a laugh). He might early qn.,te m.ny similar passages, but this was, he thought, sufficient to, trip up and overturn the argu ments of those who constantly said that the Roman Catholics of the present day were different from those of former days. Ile was glad to address this argument to the House in the presence of an Hon. Member (Sir J. Sebright), hom he saw crossing the ffror, and oho, on a former night declared that lie was ashanied to see the House of Commons discussing the Roman Catholic Question in 1825—(11ear, from Sir J. Sebright, accom panied by loud cheers trout both sides of the House). Ile too (Fir T. Lethbridge) was ashamed to see the House consent to a measure which was caltnlated to destroy the security of the Protestant Establishment. He begged to remind the House of the answer of their late Sove reign, on being applied to on this subject:—" I am ready," said he " to descend from the throne—l am ready to repair to the retirement of a cottage, and even, if necessary, to lay my head upon the block, but lam nor prepared to violate my oath.' He too bad taken an oath which he would not violate ; and he begged Hon. Gentlemen to remember, that, in consistency with the oaths they had taken, they could not agree to a single clause in the Mill now before the Ilouse—(llear, bear.) Sir J. SEIM IGHT rose to repeat what had fallen Ifrom him on a former night; there was not, he thought, the shadow of argument for resisting the measure of F.nsancipatiou. .So far (Min being ashamed of what had fallen from high od a former night, it was a sentiment which he repeated, and which he WYJ proud of—(hear, hear). Mr. Secretary PEEL pert ived there was a pretty general impression prevailing that the sense of thelinuse would not be taken on the question of the House going into a Committee. He believed that he (Mr. Peel) had himself contributed to et eate that impression, and be now should not do anything to contravene it. He was happy that the Honourable Member for Somersetshire had not expressed his intention to oppose the Speaker leaving the Ch sir. Many Members were absent on both sides, and it was besides the more unnecessary to press a division on the question of the House going into a Committee, as on the question. with its alterations in a whole shape on the third reading, he should cat tainly take the sense of the House. The objections which be entertained were not diminished by his being in a minority; on the contrary, the objections which be entertained to the simple removal of the restrictions which at present affected the Roman Catholics, were not only not abated, but were confirmedand strengthened by the proposition which thellouse lately acceded to, for making a provision l by law for the Roman Catholic Clergy. This would opera. e as an inducement to divide thellouse on the third reading; but be felt himself bound in fairness to abstain from doing se on the question of tLe House going into a Committee. Mr. B. CLAR KE said it was impossible that Ireland could remain in its present state. Under present cir cumstances nobody would invest capital in Ireland; nobody would lire in it who could avoid it—(Hear). If the Bill before the House were passed, he was con vinced that Government might withdraw esery soldier from Ireland. Ireland would then be kept quiet with the assist.. once of the Catholics themselves—(Heat). Colonel TRENCH was of opinion, that the unhappy situation of Ireland had resulted from the system of misgovernment which h.is long prevailed in that country. That system had, however, been changed; the good seed was sown, but it could not be expected that the crop should be reaped directly. If Government for two years longer pursued the same course upon which they had entered, it would be impossible for agitators to excite disturbances in Ireland. The Honourable Mem ber who spoke last said, that nobody would carry. capital to Ireland. Capital to a large amount hid; he knew, been carried into that country, and more was about to proceed thither. That capital would produce industry, and industry would produce tranquillity. He opposed Catholic Emancipation, because in ZIA the , immense mass of the people was in an ignore and de graded state, and were entirely under the i &mice of the priesthood, whom be believed to be directed, in their turn, by political persons and feelings—(Hear). The present was the proper moment for the Govern ment to make a stand against the Catholic Claims. The Catholics would not be content with what Parliament would give them ; they would never' be content until they obtained possession of supreme power—(Hear). If Parliament, on the present occasion, were to make a Inn stand—to say " denier we will go, and no farther," the ques tion would be set at net ter ever. It would be an insult to the English Cuban to the Bill before the House; it would, in fact, be an ackao is iisat that Parliament had yielded to the threats of the Irish adismes, what they had never been disposed to grant to the loyalty and pod conduct of their English brethren. Mr. WM. BAN ES trusted that his acquiescence in the motion for going into the Committee would net be misunderstood. He did on, merely because he thought the resistance offered to the Dili should be open and manly—(Hear). The third reading was the kap es which to take the sense of the Harese.—Tbe House then resolved itself into 1111 COlOllll7llll. • Mr. MACDONALD in the (fait.—The DUI basin bees read a first and wood time, The SPEAKER rose, he said, to occupy the auea tton of the Committee but for a very short time. After the recent and very elaborate discussion which , this subject had undergone, be very much doubted whe ther any person could say an y thin g hbet w ith tegatd to it, and he certainly was not prepared to atrogate to himself the capability of doing so. He was pet• fectly aware, that according to the strict roles and , forms of the House, the present stage of the Bill un' der consideration was neither the most convenient, not the most regular occasion, for any Mem ber to state his opinion with regard to it i but as his opinion on the question remained entirely unchanged, and as this was the first opportunity, and perhaps it might be the last, on which he should be 'enabled to address - the House on the measure, he trusted he might be permit ted to say a few words—( Hear, hear). Nothing, then. which he bad heard or read, had relieved his mind from the serious apprehensions with which it was filled with regard to this great, and, as he thought, most dangerous measure—(Hear, hear). Having said thus much, he could assure the Committee, that he had lid Amendment to propose, nor did he wish to press division, particularly after the opinion of the House had been so decidedly expressed on duo point. Hoir ever painful it might be to him to differ from the majority of 'the House—however painful it might be to his feelings to differ from the opinions of those whose opinions he ought to respect, and on whose opi nions he in almost every case placed the greatest re. Hance; and above all, notwithstanding he felt that the course he was now pursuing was a great evil, and to be justified only by the necessity of the case, still feel ing that a question of this kind admitted of no com promise, so long as he retained his conscientious objec tions to the question of Emancipation, he should be ashamed of himself if he did not declare them— , (Hear). He hoped that the C munittee would pardon him for having troubled them with these few words. He had, as he beft're stated, no Amendment to pro pose, nor was he aware that it was intended to propose any, or to come to any division in the Committee. — He had been anxious not to remain silent with regard to the present Bill, the only public measure wish which he had interfered bince he had had the honour to till the Chair—(l fear, hear). Mr. Secretary PEEL observed, that when a Bill similar to that now before the House was under dis cussion, various propositions were submitted to the House—some for the purpose of restricting the t ffices to which Catholics should be admitted, and others for continuing their exclusion from Parliament, and the Governments of the Colonies. He rose for the pur pose of stating, that it was not his intention to submit any propositions of that kind to the Committee on the present occasion, the sense of Parliament having been fairly declared on those points in 1821. Sir 11. Paawct.i. and Mr. Secretary PEEL entered into a short conversation, relative to the exact meaning of the words salvo awe iodine in the Catholic Bishops' ordination oath. Mr. Secretary PEEL asked the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Brougham), whether it was his amen tion to retain the two clauses relative to the establishment of an Ecclesiastical Commission in Ireland ? Mr. BROUGHAM said, that as soon as the Com— mittee arrived at those clauses, it was his intention to propose an amendment. Mr. B. Coma, Sir ionx Nrwrear, Mr. Punnterr, and Mr. V. Frrsosaato, spoke a few words as to other clauses of the NA, which were of minor importance. Mr. PLUNKETT thought the Protestant would be in the same situation after taking the oath as before. Every one knew that the Pope had a certain spiritual authority, and that would not be more apparent after taking the oath than before. Mr. Secretary PEEL said, that the whole of the po licy of the law was, to disclaim any spiritual authority on the part of the Pope; but that would be recognised by the provision to be made for the Archbishops and Bishops. Mr. BROUGHAM said, it must have been known that the Pope had spiritual authority over six millions of our fellow-subjects ; but as he (Mr. B.) disclaimed that authority for himself, he therefore swore truly.— , But that authority had been recognised by the esta blishment of the College of Maynooth ; and in many Acts of Parliament. the actual authority of the Pope was recog nised, though not admitted by the law of the land. Mr. Secretary PEEL said, that by the Act for estab lishing the College of Maynooth, the political dignity of the Irish Archbishops and Bishop, bad , not been recognised. Sir J. NEWPORT contended, that the political cha- racter was recognised by the terms of Right and Most Reverends. They had been recognised as such by the King at his Levee. Mr. L. FOSTER had taken the oath alluded to, but should' the present Bill pass, he did not see how he could so easily take it. If the Pope was allowed by law to nos*. nate to the Catholic Sees, it was impossible to swear that he had.. no legal authority. Lord J. RUSSELL thought that as long as the exercise of the Catholic Religion was toleratedby law. the power of the Pope was acknowledged. There appeared to him to him to be no distinction between Authority and Power. ' Mr. PLUNKETT said, that the Catholics, if they did not attend their own Churches, were bound to atten d those of the Protestants. By that Act the existence of the Catholic Church was admitted.—The clause was then agreed to. On the clause declaring a Catholic ineligible to the Ake of Chief Governor, Deputy Governor of Ireland, ur of Chancellor of Great &hallos. of Ireland, Mr. ROBERTSON contended, that &chalks should not be allowed to sit in the House of Commons foe British Bolinsghs and Counties; and concluded with a motion to that effect. Sir C. ' COLE differed wholly from the Honourable Member.--: Whatever disabilities were removed from dm Irish Catholics, .herald also be renamed from the Cadman of Wend. The Gallery was cleared, but se divides took place, mad the Amendment was negatived. Mr. BROUGHAM said that be had an amendment to propose upon this clause. After reading the follows ing words of the clause, 44 And whereas it is expedient that such precautions should be taken, in respect of pet sons in holy Orders professing the Roman Catholic reli gion, who may at any time hereafter be elected, nomi nated, or appointed to the exercise or discharge of episcopal duties or functions in theCatholicChurchinlre. land, or to the duties or functions of a Dean in- the said Church, as that no such person shall at any time here after assume the exercise or discharge of any such duties or functions within the United Kingdom, or any part thereof, whose loyalty and peaceable conduct shall not have been previously ascertained, as hereinafter pro vided"—he said he wished to add to them these words —" And whereas it is fit and requisite to regulate the intercourse between the subjects of this realm and the See of Rome, be it therefore enacted, that it shall and may be lawful for his Majesty, his heirs and successors, by Iwo several commissions, to be issued under the great seal of Ireland, to nominateand appoint such persons in holy orders professing the Roman Catholic religion, and exercising episcopal duties or functions in Ireland, . as his Majesty, his Mks and successors, shall think fit to be Commissioners under the Act for the two purpose* before-mentioned, and that the person first named id the said commissions should be the President thereof." The Learned Gentleman said, that as he had before stated she grounds on which he recommended these se curities, he should not now pretend to repeat them. The objection to this measure was, that by agreeing to it she House would legalize the spiritual authority of the Pope. He molted that the House would do no such thing ; it would merely regulate 16 Walks el- tile which bad k ellastalnatar -that. the Pope Wintry dim not be coettlidlttbd. Wain bias a Priest—(alalitti), anti to the . Bishopric of Dol.--(ant aPPoisliastintrs bye, W e l ssw. going—Q.l%k Bishop per softest% and tenon vaned to confer that be was not indulging solitremind the Howse Dr. O'lleirne, the late Protestant ordained a Priest by the lot afterwards becoming without any farther ordins she, s 1 lenient In addition on the subject of securities. could net admit the necessity its Seeretary PEEL Bishop Horsley had " the debate, he could N reFdi to •the Reverend contained in it. The ' tween the different of Iteme,which well Ile admitted the. Pope had liberty tocnnfer but he denied that • this country, and the disabilities under He would only Say.. this vlause introduced utmost candour, the his mind if the Hon. leave these provisions that declarAtion b not defeating the BM, provisions were worse which he felt to the woyld be removed They were very di., merly been proposed Secretary of State for were, they were di Learned t!ntlemat not come from him, Terence to the scrur, Le (Mr. Peel) had bunked by the fair The child, " But seldom Ind hisfentark seemed appeared to have no legit' her disclaimed the sem folio* his example. They Gentleman said, by the ware not at all wanted would get up and say r dealt) the Protestant objection which be now found anxious to support and .Learned Gentleman nut be better calculated i out these securities, than to diem on this ground. obligation to appoint ts exclusively of ecclesiastics. bull, dispensation, or of aq innocent nature, it was directed, but did it, in case it should appear WAS likewise no penalty sire episcopal functions • was mentioned in the snissioner would like listen convicted of some than the tdeas attached u therefore wish to know Gentleman intended Mr. PLUNKE. necessary accom raw tAn respecting them less service.ibie the should support them, sure before the Comm palatable to the people toe : securities that • somewhat of a sir in 1798 and 1821, stcPrities necessat the... Catholics to the they were under - section with the thought it most , brought in unison ought to be plowed. said that loyalty • that it was so, if wish all the precis were to be charged might not be brought Ibis clause so as man's disaffection pithily deducible. sect, but it was no\ lk Bishops. One rides was, that minds of the Cal so* calculated toe _ thanes were satisfied, my to ; sod,' therefore, seekwities. He never 111kCatholits being ' impiast the State, • bask the object of the clans. found sew,_ Catholics. The security loyal person, but that he aseabastioa. He bad w inset be had; whether People of Ireland wet' and it was ant objected womb' observe, that •would be gond for ' Mr. BANK/3S . The original clause On the clause dal Commission Nr. Sectetary was more ne _Ur. PLUNKS _w. Ileaserable Moak k wadi therefore be baba thus in Irebi Mr. BROUGHAI Felted (Mr. Fleabite On the clause to- Church of Rome, Sit FRANCIS paid to these bulb to the mead Ok Mr. BROUGL aetire to, or rather any fears urea with horn% that quiet and inoffensive merely received ration and The CH re A l cri kg been ail gene others. Lord 4N N nuities to the of before the third . Nientbers wboviesibl being accompanied by Sir J. NEWPORT Dir. BROUG' • t *Ws bad edited f at- the • Pope had' For In .—(airlitti), and the F. Dulisah—(another e ta, by the bye, in laughter), he would and would not re confer it In the Engl* dens in mere idle louse of a case of ate Protestant Bisho r the Pope at Rome.. pining a Proteitant, ordination—(Neu). ldition to those which securities. He saw necessity of securiti PEEL said, tha had been referre ould wish that H mcnd Bishop's sp fhe Rev. Prelate .ent authorities e well deserved the r Pope was Bishop Infer degrees wit!' 'at the Pope had id upon that print under which th - tay a few words o :Weed into the Bill that it would b- Hon. and Lear risious entirely ou b notoith anysinis ;11, but from a fu e worse than nu ) the removal of t Ived by the exist- y different from posed by his lti rte for Tmeign A re disclaimed by eman opposite, him, but were f ,cruples of those had the honour fabulist, that. tild, whom many fat idom boasts a father' ?med verified in the o legitimate father. 1 securities it corstai e. They were not req by the Catholics ; ar anted by the Prot c. say that these securi :stant Church in I to now felt to them; support them, be atlesnan would c • • Mated to conciliate ies, than it would ground—that they point two permane riesiastics. , or other document ature, it should be ut did not provide f • d appear to be of a • penalty attached to a tions without having the present clause. like to impeach of d' 'some disloyal act. T tched to the words lo know what constru Lied to put upon the KETT thought- )mpanimentsb an , them in 1812 ; le than he really t them, as most e Committee sue • Ile people at larg that were form - a similar nature 821, on these gr nary. The Ho to the privileges ler the influence the See of Ro )st essential that sison with the roved. His Righ dry was an uncle . r, if the inquiry recision of a Co :harged with th brought home t. as to satisfy a , ction of loyalty cible. In 1821 as now proposed One great rea hat no objection e Catholics of I to give tranquillity tidied, and it was :herder*, be did t never supposed that being bad subjects. ate, they would be • of it was to gua rid - securities actor he security 'hewed but that be procured He hod said in 181 whether . of veto or :land wire ready to t objected to by the e that if the- Bill efor the country. ICES objected to the al clause was then a me respecting the Mon being read, tary PEEL said, the Imam in England t NKETT could not Friend; in coacei refore be more nece a in Ireland. , UGII.II id casco Phankett).—The eta iuse for regulating tome, NCIS OMM ANN IS bulls °fight not to I Commandment, lUG HA M assured t rather continue his pan that bead—for t that were smart - offensive bulls upo heed by the Cabal meet. AIRMAN then I gone through, t N ISM ORE thou Roman Ott hr third se ding of 'bowel!' only vote" ipanied by the of SWPORT said. it DUG HA Al cut • • 'Nu