Star. — London, England, 1824-06-16 00:00:00

I whom theelfects of t he C a ptain Hall's valtuible 'Kirk n ew state of things were clearly pointed out, and the consequences of the recognition of independence very accurately ,toted. In one instance he describes a con versation between a Mountaineer and a Royalist ; the Royalist asks, Whet objection have you to the King of Spain:'' Why," said the Mountaineer, " my ob. jection is not to the King, but because he resides 6000 leagues oC—if we are to have a Kin g , I s h ou ld lik e o have one nearer home." " But," said the Royalist, w hy are you so anxious for trade; what do you under stand by it r Why," said the Mountaineer, " I find that some time ago I paid nine dollars for my shirt; no w, in consequence of other traders coming, I pay but two, and that I call a free trade"--( Hear, hear). Mr. Hall's book shews, that from the southernmost point of Chile to the most northern point of Mexico, the whole country was open to our traffic, and from that work it a.ipears that the trade is not recommended to us i n a selfish or mercenary point of view. We find, said the Honourable Member, that our traffic was twice blessed, blessing both the receiver and the giver. For, Sir. by creating new wants, you infuse new f acu l t i es , an d thus you raise the population of that immense ter ritory from their debased and degraded condition to an e levation worthy of a free and independent State— (Hear, hear). It has been said, that Spain has no wish to resume her ancient sway to the former extent in South America, but we may collect what her conduct would he, if again possessel of her Colonies, from the Proclamation issued last year by General Camerae at Lima. He there gave notice, that it was his intention to put the old law in force with respect to British goods wherever he found them, and added, that he had been re strained from doing so before from a feeling of mercy, supposing that the merchants were ignorant of that law. :The delay made in recogaixing the independence of South America is, in my view of the question, calcu lated to prolong the divisions and dissensions which are alaged as the cause of that delay; and though calcu lated to produce nu legal effects, strong moral effects are likely to be produced by it. I appeal to the do cuments on your table in support of hay assertion, that the connection between the Old World and New is at this moment at stake, and that any delay will be pro ductive of the evils you wish to see subside. Sir, if you make them outlaws, you will drive them to acts which will deserve that title; if you refuse them the honours due to free men, you will make them what you declare them to be —(Hear). You may sow dissension, raise faction ag tinst faction, prolong the effusion of blood, and the continuance of violence and disorder ; all of which may he avoided by the course which I now re commmf. I would not commit a breach of neutrality to serve South America—l would not do an act of in justice to serve the commerce of England—but I would do that, which, while it was in itself an act of justice, would have the effect of establishing the independence of South America, and emancipating 16,000,000 of aruls trom that legitimate and paternal protection, that justice and order, peace and harmony, which the resto ration of the beloved Ferdinand had spread over happy Spain—(Hear, hear). I move, Sir, that this Petition he brought up. The Petition, which was inserted in the STAR of Friday, was then brought up. On the qUestion that It do He on the table, Mr. Secretary CANNING said—Unquestionably, Sir, am very far from having anything to complain of, either with respect to the tone or topics with which my Honourable and Learned Friend has introduced his speech ; and if the observations which I shall feel it my duty to make upon that speech, or the Petition upon which it is founded, shall bear but a small proportion to his address, I hope he will do me the justice to be lieve, that it is nut in consequence of any offence at what he has said, or any.disrespect for his opinions. But my Honourable and Learned Friend must be fully awaret that though these ale in the late Spanish Colonies grea, questions involved, anything which may tall from me on the part of his Majesty's Government, would be likely to produce effects which neither lie nor I could wish to witness. I, therefore, must rather restrain every dis position which I feel to follow my Honourable and Learned Fr iend through the various topics upon which he has touched, and confine myself as much as possible to a simple statement of facts, with no other qualification than a full and clear understanding of them. My Hon. and Learned Friend has gone over the papers, and given a just analysis of the course pursued by his Majesty's Government with respect to the South American Colo nies. He has justly stated, that the first question in point of order for their consideration was, the question between the parent state and hit e Colonies ; and that the course laid down by Ministers was a strict neu trality. In doing this, it was also right to observe, that allowing the Colonists to assume an equal belli gerent rank with the parent country, we did, pro taato, raise them in the scale of nations. Ills Honourable and Learned Friend had justly said, and it was also stated by the Petitioners, that in the year 1822, the extent of the commerce then subsisting between this country and the Colonies of S t rain led to another de facto recognition of their separate political eitistence : we recognised their commercial flag, which was admitted to the same advantages as the flags of in dependent States in amity with England. He has also most correctly remarked, that the next step was taken before the breaking out of the war between France and Spain : an intimation was at that period given to Spain, privately in the first instance, and afterwards publicly to the whole would, that to the British Government it appeared that time and events had very substantially decided the question of sepatation, but that the fact of recognition must be determined by various circum stances, and, among others, by the internal state of each of die Colonies so claiming recognition. My Honour able and Learned Friend further stated, with the same accuracy, that after that declaration made to Spain, and after the publication of that declaration, which left nei er to Spain, nor to any other Power, cause of corn ;slain:, if Great Britain should think fit to act practically upon it, the circumstances of the last year induced this sourary to suspend even the consideration of that ques tion—to suspend the mission of commercial agents to Amelica, and to remain inactive and undecided until the result of the contest in which Prance and Spain v ere engaged. Immediately after the decision of that vultest, or rather, I should say, at the moment of its (!ecision, and before any consequences could arise and any seep be taken by France, or by other Powers of Europe, o.le effect of the issue of the war, a warning was given by this country in the clearest terms, as to the course site should pursue on any proposal for a joint con-, ie:ence, or C.ngress, on the affairs of Spanish America. hey Honourable and Learned Friend has faithfully re called to the recollection of the House the particular expressions of that warning. The next stage in the Thole of these transactiods was the proposal s on the 'par: of Spain, that we should . bocoose a Member of such a Congress, and join in such a conference. That proposal was followed by our reftisal—(Hear • hear). O n the mode in w hi c h t h at re f usal was made, first as it re lated to Spain, and next as it referred to the Colonies, ; the House . is already so p er f ect l y a d v i sed, t h at i t i s not necessary tor me to dwell upon it. Since that period (and this forms the last stage of these transactions), a • public discussion took place in thi s H ouse . Th e state en which things rem a i ne d t h e l ast t i me the question was agitated within these walls was this—it was stated that the King's Government, though reserving to them selves the right of acting a s th e y t h emse l ves s h ou l d think fit in reference to the interests of Great Britain involved in those Colonies, y e t t h e y t h oug h t i t not merely politically expedient, but just and generous, to afford Spain the opportunity of precedency, and abso lutely to suspend any decision, till they knew in whir way she would avail herself of that opportunity—(Hear, hear). What I have now to state i s , t h at t h at con di t i on is at an end, and that with respect to any further steps to . be taken by thi s c o untr y towar d s t h e S out h Ame rican Colonies, she must act for herself. What has passed upon this point between the two Cabinets, it is not necessary for me to particularise, but the result is, that the British Government is left to act ution its own decision, without further reference to Spain -(Hear). — Such is the result I have to state, and there any com munication I have to make to the House ends. I trust Honourable Gentlemen will see that, in stating what is a fact, I avoid rather than incur the danger to which I referred, and which might arise from the agitation of this question. I apprehend that I should run the risk of that peril if I wete to state any ulterior, conjectural, or e een hypothetical case, and I shall, therefore, carefully shun it--(Hear, hear).—Here I should conclude what I have to address to the House, were I not glad of the opportunity afforded by the speech of my Honourable and Learned Friend, and for which opportunity I un .doubtedly thank him, of putting on its true ground, and in its just light, the expression of recognition which has been so much mistaken. It is perfectly true, as has been mentioned, that the term " recognition" has been much abused, and unfortunately that abuse has perhaps been supported by some authority. It has clearly two senses, in which it is to be differently understood. If the colonies say to the mother country, " we assert our independence," and the mother country answers, " I admit it," that is recognition in one sense. If the colo nies say to another State, " we are independent," and that other State replies, "I allow that you are so," that is recognition in another sense of the term. That other State simply acknowledges the fact—or rather its opinion of the fact; but she confers nothing, un less under particular circumstances. She may be considered as conferring a favour—(Hear, hear). — Therefore, it is one question'whether the recognition of the independence of the Colonies shall take place, Spain being a party to such recognition ; and another ques tion, whether Spain, withholding what no power on earth can necessarily extort by fire, sword, or conquest, if she maintain silence without a positive refusal, other countries should acknowledge that independence. I am sure that my Honourable and Learned Friend will agree with me in thinking, that hi., exposition of the different senses of the word " recognition," is the clearest arga ment in favour of the course we originally took: viz. that of wishing that the recognition in the minor sense should carry with it recognition by the mother country in the major sense—( Hear, hear). The recognition by a neutral power alone cannot, in the very nature of things, carry with it the same degree of authority as if it were accompanied by the recognition by the mother country also. If, therefore, the Government of Great Britain had looked exclusively to the interests of the Colonial States, she would reasonably pursue the course we have in fact taken : it must have been an object of higher importance to those States, that the recognition . by Great Britain should be delayed, in the hope o f bringing with it a similar concession from Spain, rather than that the recognition by Great Britain should be so precipitate as to postpone, if not prevent, the recog nition by the mother country—(Cries of Hear, hear). Whether all hope is over of any such step on the part of Spain, is another question. Our obligation, then, as a matter of fact, is at an end—l am enabled to state that positively—the rest is a matter of opinion, and must depend upon a balance of probabilities. But, as my Ho nourable and Learned Friend has said, this simple sense of the term " recognition" has been very much mis understood, both here and in other places ; because, though there is nothing more plain and easy titan the act of acknowledging a fan (if fact it be), that such a Government is independent, yet 1 am quite certain he will agree with me, that it may make a difference, if that acknowledgment be asked, which implies an expec tation of consequences which do not necessat ily belong to it. I am sure he will feel, that great as the boon of recognition in its simplest sense might be to any new Government, it would be greater il, though given in one sense, it were accepted in another. It might be given as a mere acknowledgment of a fact, and accepted as a sort of treaty of alliance and co-operation —(clear, hear). I am not ignorant of the many commercial terests that call for this proceeding; but if what is re-1 quired were granted, some sup i , ose that it would neces sarily have the effect of tranquillising the State esta blishing and confil ming its independence. The simple recognition by any neutral Power, if it were not mi, understood, could have no such effect. I am, therefore, anxious that exaggerated expectations should not be 'n• dulged as to what might be the immediate consequences of recognition. My Honourable and Learned Friend has put two cases, the possibility of the existence of one of which I certainly do not feel. He says that South America must either be considered as one great mass, and then the contest in any part bears but a very small proportion to the tranquillity of the whole; or that each separate State must be considered by itself, and then only the State in which the contest exists can fairly be excluded from recognition. I have no sort of difficulty in saying, that to take South America as a mass, pre sents a physical impossibility ; and my Honourable Friend does not pretend that there is any Government established which has authority over the whole. That position will, therefore, certainly be of no assistance to his argument. The other point of view he has presented deserves mote consideration r viz. how far we ate to con sider each separate State entitled to recognition: into this part of the argument I do not go at present ; this is a horn of his dilemma with which I am not, for various reasons, now prepared to contend. I will state only, that though I agree with him that we have no pretence to be so difficult and scrupulous as to insist that A new Government shall have all the stability of an old otie,. before we acknowledge its independence, yet we must act with sonic uegree of caution, belore v.e can give ourfsat, even if it be understood to amount to no mo re than a declaration of opinion. We. are n o t Wood, tat deed, to be so sareof Our ground as to be able toanswer for it that our opinion shall turn out to be true, but we are bound to take care to have the chances in its favour. The principle to guide us is this:—that as the whole of our conduct should be essentially neutral, we ought not to acknowledge the separate and independent existence of any Government which is so doubtfully established— that the mere effect of that acknowledgment shall be to mix parties again in internal squabbles, if not in open hostilities—(Hear, hear, hear). My Honourable and Learned Friend is aware, that before we can act, information as to matters of fart is necessary ; we have taken the means to obtain that information, but we are not yet in possession of that official intel ligence which will enable us to arrive at a decision. Even with regard to the particular State last alluded , to, Colombia, I know what has passed there enly through the same channels of information my Hon. Friend seems to have consulted; I mean the Newspapers. I have seen much that I think must be rather exaggerated, but I have yet no authentic record by which I can correct the public statements. This is all that I think it consistent with my duty to state to my Hon. and Learned Friend; to every principle laid down in the Papers lie has read, and on whiCh he has bestowed commendation, the King's Government steadfastly adheres (Cheers). The progreis made since we last had any communication on the sub ject, is a proof that we have proceeded in the execution of those principles, and as my Hon. and Learned Friend approves of all that is stated in those documents, he must,l apprehe:►J, approve equally of what subsequently occurred. The House will judge whether it is expe dient, in the present state of affairs, necessa! ily partak ing of so much uncertainty, to press the discussion be yond the information which I have been able to give, or whether it would not complicate, and, perhaps, re tard rather than accelerate the object in view ? Mr. T. WILSON rose— Mr. CANNING said, his Right Honourable Friend had just reminded him that there was one part of the speech of his Honourable and Learned Friend which he had left unanswered. The invitations originally made to this country by these Colonies had been renewed and :again declined. Mr. T. WILSON again rose, and we understood him to state, that the commercial part of the country, and his constituents in particular, were interested in the re cognition of these Colonies, and the Honourable and Learned Gentleman had brought forward the subject with so much ability, that he was entitled to the grati tude of all who felt for the independence of South America. Mr. ELLICE was of opinion, that the recognition of the British Government would do more to tranquillise these States, than a recognition by Spain herself. Mr. BROUGHAM bore testimony to the able man ner in which the Petition had been presented to the House. The assurance of the Right Honourable Gen tleman (Mr. Canning), that the British Government had refused to join in a Congress, must be highly satisfac tory to the House. Ile trusted, that when official jaw-, mation should be received of the independence of any of these States, that independence would be formally recoginzed by the British Government. Such an ac knowledgment would involve us in no conflict either with the mother couhtry or any other State. By the recognition of that independence alone could the diffi culties arising daily in the Courts of Law be removed. The Petition was then ordered to lie upon the table. On the motion that it be printed, Sir J. MACKINTOSH only rose to express his great satisfaction at the approbation of the Petition by the Honourable Member for the City of London; the ob ject of which Petition was to obtain information on a subject of such importance. According to official de tails laid before the House, it appeared, that the annual value of the whole exports from this country was about 41,000,0001. of which 17,000,0001. wont to the Conti nent of Europe, and 6,000,0001. to the South American provinces, a greater portion .than went to any of the European States. He perfectly agreed (with reference to another part of the question) that the force of the country ought not to be employed by Government to effect the recovery of sums of money advanced by Bri tish subjects on the faith of foreign securities ; yet, never theless, he could not conceive that the application of Bri tish capital in speculation: on foreign funds was unlawful. Mr. Secretary CANNING insisted nn the objection he had before urged to the claims of those who had lent their money to the new Governments, and who, in fact, were not fairly interested in the question of recognition. Yet, if the Honourable and Learned Gentleman knew as much as he did, he would be aware that those persons had been not a little importunate in enforcing their claims for the interference of the British Government in favour of these demands in the event of a recogni tion—an interference which could in no way be justi fied, and least of all could it be due to those who had advanced their money without any reference to the cir cumstance of whether the independence of those States would be recognized or not. Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH said that the thiited States of America had made their recognition of the independence of those States, with an express declara tion that Lliey would adhere to a perfect neutrality in the struggle between Spain and her colonies. Sir F BURDETT thought the Right Honourable Gentleman had given no information to the House. Ile thought the recogni tion of the British Government of much more importance to South America than that of the mother country. The Lord Chancellor had said, that he did not recognise the independence of the South American Stater, and that might be the cause of the hesitation of Ministers. He hoped his Honourable Friend would bring the subject before the House in a way that would make Ministers speak out. Mr. HUME could see no reason why we should not hate Consuls at St. Domingo, to watch over the interests of our com merce.—The Petition was ordered to be printed. A message from the Lords acquainted the House that tbeir Lord ships had agreed to certain BiUs—(for which see Lords Report). Mr. ELLICE moved for copies or extracts of Returns of any Report which may have been made by Captain M'Lean, of his Ma jesty's ship Bustard, respecting the Settlement at Honduras.— Ordered. The same Honourable Member renewed for to-morrow Lion respecting the conch= of the Governor of Bermuda. his Mo- SLAVERY. Mr. WILBERFORCE rose to present a Petition from the County of Carlow, and to pray for the Abolition of Slavery. The Honourable Member went into a state ment of the rituation of the slave population of the Colonies, and condemned the course pursued by Go vernment for obtaining the object of amelioration. The prejudices on the other side of the water went on increasing; and he was afraid that melancholy effects arose in consequence of their misconstruing the course adopted by his Right Honourable Friend. Inthed, 'he was ready to admit at once, that he believed the 'policy which his Right Honourable Friend was pur• suing to be' both hopeless and dangerous. The Honourable Member then dwelt upon the condition 01 he Slaves, and stated that in Demerara the decrease of ;r t - - ~;:a, n .~..' . ' tlieir population was two-nnio half per east. plater than in the other Colonic& It never.could be expected that the resolutions of Parliament could be . eartied into effect by leaving their execution to the owners of Slaves. Was it likely that men opposed to them in feeling, and believing that they possessed opposite in terests, should co-operate with them upon the very point of difference? They abhorred the means recom mended by Parliament, and they abominated the end. Their prejudice s were becoming greater and greater eves y day, and the course which the House was pur suing only added t o t h e i r v i o l ence . A t D emerara, the authority of the Government was as much denied as at those places which possessed Legis lative Assemblies of their own. They first published a resolution, condemning Lord Baihnrst's regula tions, and then proceeded to one, by witi. - 11 it was declared that all Missionaries shou'd be sent away.— The great question in fact was, whether they should leave to those Colonial Assemblies the work of carrying the intentions of Parliament into eifect. or vrhett-er it should be done by the Supreme Power of the State ? The Honourable Member next alluded to some violent proceedings of the House of Assembly at Barhadnes, upon the presentation of a petition, temperately worded, from the free people of colour in that Colony, praying to be placed upon the same footing as that class held in Jamaica. He felt it to be his duty to impress upon the House the danger of the policy they were now pur suing, in working upon the feelings and hopes of the slaves, and then allowing their masters to withhold from them in one moment what had been granted or pro mised the moment before. He concluded by moving that the Petition be brought up and read. Mr. BERNAL complained, that at so late a period of the Session, and after such repeated discussion on the West Indies, the Honourable Member should have re capitulated his charges against the West India Islands, without a notice of any kind ; so that he, or some other connected with the West Indies, might have been pre. pared to have refuted his charges, which he must con= sider as most unfair. He would asset t that the West Indian residents, and absent Proprietors (the latter by their Agents) had given orders 1. r ameliorating the state of the Slaves. :It was impossible, by a series of speeches in a few Sessions of Parliament, to bring about com plete emancipation of the Slaves, ot make them fit for it, though the Missionaries and their friends seem to think that it was possible. The continued inve.tives of the Honourable Member against the Colonies were not likely to allay angry feelings. If he possessed the genuine feelings of humanity and Christianity, as lie a sinned, and as he (Mr. Bernal) gave him credit tor, lie N 4 /Uld meet the Colonies with mildness an f calmness, instead of the language of menace and insult. Mr. Secretary CANNING said, he rose with a des're, rather than with an expectation or hope, of being able to dispose of the question for the present—( /tear, hear). He had some time since explained at length what was the plait upon which Government intended to act with respect to the Colonies in the West Indies, and the man ner in which the gradual improvement in the condition of the Negroes was intended to be attempted, and he had been encouraged to believe most persons present were satisfied with it s details. His Honourable Friend must make up his mind to permit Government to pur sue that line of conduct, which not Government itself, but Patliametit-had chalked out, or he niust resolve to bring the question anew before the 11 , ;use, aml subject it. to a complete le-examination. But_irt aIL modes of treating the subject, he must say he con , i.lered that the worst would be at th.: end of a Se•sion, after the discussion which had taken place, ;o take an oppor tunity on presenting a Petition, of expressing a regret that another line of conduct had not been adopted.— His Honourable Friend objected to the system now in operation as too slow in reaching its object.. His answer was, that no other remedy was likely to effect its object, without society in those settlements sustaining a violent shock. It was, besides, the manner in which Parliament had thought fit to meet and remedy the evil. If then his Honourable Friend were 6e:ermined to open the subject afresh friim time to time, and neat it in the manner they had just witnes ed, he at once threw back that responsibility which his interruption of the mea sures of the Executive rendered it imprudent they should any longer assume. It was impos-ible to suppose that Government was insensible to the feelings of in itation which prevailed on this very deiicate subject, and yet it had courteously abstained from alluding to any proofs of bad temper or angry feeling. What would the House think, when they had advisedly put aside all those topics in former debates capable of exciting angry discussions, if those topics were called forth now so as to interrupt, not a plan which would be considered that of G.,vern meat, but a plan matured and adopted by Parliament ? There were still materials enough to excite ill temper. He therefore intreated his Honourrble Friend, it the proposed system were too slow or not su ffi ciently vigor ous, let it be met, and discussed candidly and fairly. But if it were necessary to asset t the supremacy of the 'mother country, let it be done consistently ; but let us not maintain a temperate line of conduct abroad, and an inflamed course of argument within those walls. His Honourable Friend had mentioned wi:11 regret the ex periment being tried in the island of Trinidad ; now it was obvious that here it could be attempted by the Go vernment with greater influence and better hope of success. In the other two Colonies, Demerara and St. Lucie, which were similarly situated as to the direct influence and power of the Crow n, the same course bad been pursued. These were already reaping some of the advantages of the system pursued ; but it was one which it would require not days or weeks but months, and years to mature ; and if it shall be so matured, it will at least be achieved without apprehension or tenor. If his Honourable Friend had felt it his duty to make Ithe statement he had made this evening in the discharge of his conscience, he hoped that noiv Government would be left .to follow the course which Parliament had pointed out to them ; but if it were really his opinion that another course ought to be followed, he should suggest to him that it would he far more suitable to the importance of the subject that he should bring the ques tion fully before the House alter due notice, than intro duce it in this manner on the presenting of a Petition. Mr. WILBERFORCE said he had mentioned the Petition before being in his possession. Mr. Secretary CANNING admitted he had heard, as a matter of courtesy, that he would present a Petition. Dr. LusHINGTQN referred to some Jamaica Papers of a re cent date, which contained an account of the Government of that. e Island towards two persons, Lcsane another. The Honottrab Gentleman stated , that it was hi: intentio n earlylin the next Be uion of Parliament to bring the subject before the House. a wben ; h b e hopett released by the Court of King' s Beach i he le tw ar o ed ind ! i o vi l d ro uals oce to wh e om to St- Domingo. He would meats connected with the case • ester was not prepared with acts his allu d M e a d j , es af t y. te s r s b l a in v i i i n t g ers b not say that the Duke of Manch . but he would say that those facts iron be of to jurtify . hiscoficluct, ot Jamaica, bad been ar c r w e i s i° tt u A ld as b ld e. sent . I -