Star. — London, England, 1825-04-20 00:00:00

a tr.sit certamrY endeaxoer to`exalt their swu oat at the expense of- the 4ivil faith; and therefore; : Acing theri. to:be itealons fano:airs df . theit of stss :ern, he would never'consent to intruseing Alma with p pwer. The grants proposed to the Catholic Clergy Sr the present measure, in his view, only rendered it additiunelly objectionable. He was opposed to the principle of such a grant rather than to the mere pecu niary expense; because if once it was carried, - what was, to hinder eyery other feet opposed to the Establishedi 'Church from claiming I similar provision? That tho 'grant of what was called Catholic Emancipation would end the miseries of Ireland; it would be ridiculous -co l 'expect ; he, personally, was not of opinion that it would in any way decrease them. The evils which afflicted I r eland were the want of a resident Gentry, the want of capftalti the want of commerce, of moral and religious education. These were difficulties not to be got over— not to be touched—by a measuter which, to him, seemed pregnant with danger to the community; and certainly, so long as he continued to think the religion in which he had been bred and educ Iced the best reli gion on the faee'of the earth, so long he should feel it his duty to oppose any extension of the political privileges of the Catholics. Colonel BAGWELL opposed the amendment. Mr. DAWSON felt much difficulty on the present occasion, as he had for the first time been dissociated on this question, from his friend the Member for Armagh. OR all sides he saw difficulties on this sub ject. He feared the continuance of a system that had been lo loudly arraigned, and on the other hand, he dreaded to consolidate a party in Ireland that had put forward such pretensions as had been advanced. Were he of opinion that peace and tranquillity would follow the ,proposed concessions, he should not hesitate, like the Member for Armagh, to undergo the obloquy that' , mutt proceed hem a total change of opinion. But from the evidence before the House, he was of a totally diltcrent opinion, and thought the judgment of the l'ilember fir Armagh had been led astray by the elo quence that had been displayed. He could not recon cile the turbulence of Mr. O'Coneell in Ireland with the moderation he ha I shewn here. Oa that account be anustlock with some degree of suspicion at his evidence. There was the greatest difference between the political writings of Doctor Doyle and the evidence he gave before the Committee. In these writings he launches into the most furious invectives against the Protestant Church ; and presented the truest picture of an the client son to the See of Rome. But before the Commit tee he is a totally d fferent man; he disclaims all power is the Pope, except in spiritual matters. But as to the letters under the signature of I. K. L. of which he was the author, he was short in t h e extreme. He would teg of Honourable Gentlemen who had not committed themselves. to look at those letters, and compare them with • his evidence before the Committee. The Lich Catholics were wholly governed by Dr. Doyle and Mr. O'Connell. There WS; not a Protestant that did not apprehend a convulsion in Ireland from the concession 41 the Catholic Claims; and there was not a Catholic that had not looked for more from the Bill than mere eligibility to office. A Petition had been presented by an Honourable Baronet (Sir F. Burdett)• in the month of May,1824, in which the views of the Catholics were pretty clearly developed. In that Petition they de manded the reformation of the Established Church, Orangemen should be declared ineligible to offices, and that theCatholicClaims should be immediately conceded. With permission of the House he would state what had been the acts of the Catholics when they were in pos session of the civil power in Ireland. In 1687, when the country was governed by the Viceroy of King James, and when it was intended to restore the tem poral as well as the spiritual power of the Romish Church, the first step taken was to remove all the Pio testant Judges, and to supply their place with Catho lics. But the removal was not confined to the Judges only, every office, down even to the low• situation of constable, Which hid before been held by Prctestants, was vacated, and Catholics substituted. The hext step was to disfranchise the corporations; their charters were taken away, and new charters given, with power to the principal officers to remove all Protestants who held office under the former charters. Having succeeded thus fir, the*Government next tried its power on the Irish Parliament. A Parliament was soon after held in Dublin; of which only eight niembeee of the House of Commons were Protestants, and the Peers who met in the House were all Catholics. What was the effect?' Early in the Session an Act was passed which confiscated the estates of multitudes of Protestants, and when a Petition, most numerously sighed by that body, was presented to the House, praying for redress, the an swer was, that they must share in the general ruin. To these facts he begged the particular attention of the Honourable Member for Armagh. who now seemed to place such reliance on the evidence of some Roman Catholics who were examined before the Committee. After sanctioning the proceedings he had just noticed, the Parliament next passed a Bill of Attainder, in which, according to 'Archbishop King. not fewer than 2,600 Protestants were attainted, and of course their proper. ties confiscated. The whole of the diocesan schools, which had previously been in the bands of Protestants, were placed under the superintendence of Catholics, to the exclusion of Protestant teachers and pupils. The fellowships of the Dublin University were filled by. Ca tholics, and a Popish Priest was made Provost. - All the livings within the gift of Government werefillectby Ca tholics; and as a wind-up to this reformation, which was just of the kind that Dr. Doyle advocated, there were in the diocese of Dublin 26 Protestant Churches; occupied by Popish Priests, and 'turned into Catholic Chapels. These were the effects of Popish ascendancy ; and similar results would follow, if they obtained the same power in the present day. He could not but look upon the Petition of the Catholic Association of 1824, as no more than a corollary of the Catholic proceedings • of 1687. For these reasons be would oppose the second reading of the Bill. He felt convinced, that instead of tranquillizing the country, it would tend only to create fresh dissensions. He wished the Protestant establish ment to remain undisturbed, because the country had flourished under it : our liberties had been cherished by it, and he felt convinced they would be less secure by any measure which should weaken its influence. He had, from a recollection of froreeie circumstances,' a dread of Catholicity, and was therefore decidedly op posed to any Bill which would again tend to introduce its power in the country. He would apply to the pro posed measure the words of the Poet.- patria, • Diusin dooms - Blum, et indyta hello Mania Darnauidum I quaver ipso in Maine pones Bubstidt, atque utero *Latium quitter *rasa declare. Inter nus tumour issmemofes, cacique furore, • FA monstrunt Welke saerata daises arce." . Lord was anxious to say a few words on the subject. 'His inisiety had stet been diminished by , . „ .••, • . • the. epeeeb Q th e Elm Member for Armagh . He hid ofcßn Preledeuse. might forget the past, and look 'hi :die, future, asscl that prayer.had • net been .rendered . less . fervent • speech of the Hon.. Member foi Lqndondeal. • He had nothing to do with die Councils *of 1.. K. L. The _lLisse. had nothing to - do with the Catholic, Parliament of Kildare, or the reconciliation of Mr. O'Counell with the Catholsc Association. It Was not the busineis of any one in that House to bring about a recoaciliatiok 'diet ought to look only to the effect the measure would produce. The object of the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down was to state the pro ceeding,: of the Catholics in the reign of King James. No doubt the object in that reign wi t to establish Ca- tholic supremacy ; but the Hon. Gendemawshotild look at all the circumstances—King James was contendini for his Crown, which he expected to recover by the aid of Ireland, and was there anything more natural than to put down Protestants and uphold Roman Catholics? Where was the danger of Catholic instruments at the• present day? Who could suppose that Are present Monarch on the Throne could be injured by Catholic instrumentality ? The successors of King James had barbarized the people.of Ireland. All the laws treated them. as a vile populace. Those times had however gone past. The day of emancipation had arrived, and all that was wanted was to sweep away those Statutes which had degraded the people of Ireland. Mr. NORTH believed that concessions to the Roman Catholics were essential to the safety and tranquillity of Ireland, and, therefore, it was impossible he couldgive a silent vote. He admired the speech of the Hn. Member for Armagh, and rejoiced to see the power of truth obtaining a victory over error. He could not help aiverting to the arguments which had been offered i that evening ; he could not avoid expressing his surprise "that an Hon. Member should have quitted the main ;object for extraoeous matter. It had been said the grievances were imaginary. The disqualifying Statutes affected the Country Gentlemen, and indeed all classes. The Lawyer was held back till his Protestant competi tor passed over him. That was a grievance no man could bear. They were' the grievances felt by all Catholics. —The country had a right to the services of all its po pulation, and all the members of the Sate ought to enjoy a fair participation of rights and privileges. They deprived the Catholic of political power, but they could not take from him natural power; he was armed with the sympathy of his fellow-sufferers. The : question was, whether they would incorperite that power with the State, or leave it to run in wild delusion? -One of the objections against. concession was founded on a be lief that Catholics kept no faith with heretics. The Houle ought to rely on the immutable principles of human nature. There was a rectitude in the human heart which forbade the adoption of such a principle. Could the religion of a Fenelon, a Pascal, and our greatest ancestors, alloir that evil 'principle ? He was convinced it was not in existence. The Catho?i tics of Ireland possessed all the elements of power;. ihey had education and property, and were qua- . lifted ':for the enjoymnt of the privileges of the' Constitution. A Roman Catholic presided with ho- 1 nour and integrity in the Court of Exchequer in Ire land; another in the county of Clare; and the Hon. Member could not we why the Catholic populstion were not worthy of those rights which they claimed. Colonel FORD supported the lhli. Lord ENNISMORS expressed his intention of opposing the second reading of the Bill. Mr. J. DALY thought this the proper time for the measure. There was a calm in Ireland, but it was not the calm of content, but the stillness of intense anxiety., Every man there, from the Peer to the peasant, was! united, and if disappointed of the boon now, they would take it .by force; he did not mean with arms.in their hands, but the Protestants of this country and of Ireland would be placed in such a situation of discomfort as would force the' boon from this country. Sir N. COLTHURST did believe there was a great change of feeling in the breasts of the Protestants of Ireland. He thought it the duty of the Legislature to take advantage of that feeling to unite the country in one comm bond of pease and amity., Mr. GOULBURN said, that if he could be induced to believe' that: by' acceding to the present Bill the House would produce general conciliation and tran quillity in Ireland, he should have no hesitation in fol lowing the honest and manly course of the Hon. Mem ber for Armagh, and in giving to it his decided appro bation. He could .not, however, bring himself to en tertain such a belief, and he must therefore repeat the ybjections which he had formerly urged against this measure. He could not agree in the sentiments ex pressed by the Hon. Member for the County of Galway. To tell him that the Catholics of Ireland demanded these concessions, and that if they were refused, they would take them by force, -was not an argument -to which he could listen.. He was willing to yield to the voice of reason, but he would be the last man to give way to anything like a threat on a question of this nature. He had been hostile to this. measure on former occa sions, on the very same grounds that he was now.,He -held it to be inconsistent with the British Constitution, which was indissolubly united with the Church Esta blishment: he held it to be inconsistent with the first principles of that Constitutiel. to admit those within its pale who were actuated by religious feelings of the most bitter hostility to the Church of England. 'He-agreed with the Honourable Member for Code-Castle -in thinking that if they should give their sanction to this Bill, they would depart from the ancient principle of the Constitution: . The Constitution was built upon chit principle—to exclude everything ,that was daogerout to itsexistetice, and to guard against any evil which it foresaw by checking /Its operation. Now they were told to neglect that .4winciple, and to trust to the ser cuticles Which had been formed to neutralize th effects of the evil apprehended in the present instan c y . He was not disposed to take that advice, but felt ' dined to adhere to the old. principle. , and not to desert it for the new. His Honourable and Learned Friend b+ hind him (Mr. North), in one part of his speech, had, doubted whether' any danger-could arise from granting' these concessions to the Catholics; and yet, in another part of his speech, bad admitted that he did be- hold some danger, but a danger that . was remote, in its operation. He left his Learned Friend to reconcile' this inconsistency as he could. He should merely re. mart, that. the Bill itself admitted that there was some danger. • If there were not, why should it contain so , many precautions? Why should it contain a special certificate as to the loyalty of the Bishops ?—(Greti uproar in the House). The securities which the Bill gave .against the apprehended danger wee of three kindsthe first kind was the declarations in the pre-' amble; Cie second, the oaths in the Bill itself e and the' , third, the commission formed to controalibeintercourli lof the Bishops with the Court of Rome.. He wit pro-' ceedifig•to thew that- they mere all inefficienti when the increases( abbe ht the Howe, sad the arks e[ 't Adjourn; tosia pealed fibs to &dm , - • . • •• • Mr. Secretary PEEL complaineaof Olt interruption which way . gfeen to hi s Right Honourable Friend . His , R'g'ht Itonontable Friend had had eo OPPorims;ii - Of Lkclaritig pis sentiments . upon this question, and , had been ninsous to declare them on the present evening. If it. should tie the opinion of .the House that the time was ppw come at.. which they ou ght to a dj ourn , h e . had no objection to it, prOildid it were understood that his Honourable+ Friend was In possession of the House on the neat ' , matt. Mr. BROUGHAM said, that from the manner in which Honourable MeMbers were leaving the House, it was evident that it would be very inconvenient to pro. teed further at that moment. He believed that no dis respect was intended to the Right Hon. Secretary, but that Gentlemen were leaving the House at that moment because they were aware that their votes would not be wanted on the present evening. He fully concurred with Mr. Secretary. Peel, that the Right Hon. Gentle man should be considered in possession of the House , when the debate was re-opened on a lutureevening. It was then agreed to adjourn die-debate. Some discussion arose as to whether the adjournment of it 'Mould 'be till to-morrow or till Thursday. It was at last settled, titer a conversvion across the table, between Mr. Pke; and Mr. Iluomuukat, that the adjourn. meet should be till Thursday. The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the Moose adjourned at Qua o'Osocu. LAW REPORT. COURT OF CHANCERY. APRIL is. EX PA RTE CACI' A RD. }I6 LORDSHIP said he supposed it would be necessary to proceed with the case respecting the committal of the witness in the barkruptcy against Cachard? It would be, therefore, for Mr. Horne to proceed. Mr. HORNE said, he presumed the Counsel on the other site had addressed everything they had to say to his Lordship. The LORD CHANCELLOR observed, that the case coming before him upon the insufficiency of the eta- i ruination, it would be for Mr. Horne to state his ob jections to their insufficiency. He had read the return of the examinations from Mr. Wakefield's brief, and it appeared to him the most convenient way would be to bear Mr. Horne's objection first, and als r to have the terms of the different warrants of commitment consi dered. He thought the bankrupt's former examination wanted explanation, and that his last examin rtion had not sufficiently elucidated or explained what was unsa tisfactory in the first. • Mr. HORNZ proceeded to state his objeetiOns to the examinations. The result was, that the witness was ordered to be discharged upon an apparent informality is the commitment. • I HIGH COURT OF ADMIRALTY, APRIL 19. THE MINERVA. • This was a suit commenced by the seamen of the Minerva, against the owners of the above vessel, to re cover wages. • The defence set up was, that the men had deserted the ship at Calcutta. . Lord StoweLL gave judgment.—He said, the men in question had contracted.to proceed with the Minerva to New South Wales, with convicts, and from thence to India, with a cargo of the produce of the country. Before their departure from Wry Bay, the Captain expressed his determination to visit some of the islands in the South Seas, and the seamen reminded him, that,' by the terms of their contract, they had only engaged to go from New South Wiles to India. The Captain then, for the first time, informed them, that the words a or elsewhere," were inserted in the margin of the Contract, and he said he would carry them where he ,pleased, to It--. if he liked, being a very favourable, ' place for a consignment. In reply to their remonstrances,' they were threatened with a prison, and the vessel was, then taken to New Zealand, but not a man durst land, for: fear of being made a meal's meat of by the cannibals. They then took a flight to Valparaiso, from thou .lo; Lima, then to Otabeite, from thence to Singapore, , and _then to Calcutta; and in fact, without any profitable: speculation. The men there performed their duty with great alacrity; but finding that their hours of rest were not allowed, they followed the Captain on shore, and complained to the Town Serjeant. The Captain was summoned before this Magistrate, and after several , private and public conferences, he was of the saute opi- I nion as many of the Magistrates in India are, viz. that 11f sailors leave the ship, whether- right or wrong, they t had subjected themselves to punishment : but he gave them the choice of either going to the House of Cor rection, or to return to the ship. The men ,very pru dently chose the latter, but then the Captain refused to admit them, and they were imprisoned twenty-five days. They were then put on boar& a police.boat, and taken to the ship. Two other charges were made against them, but dismissed as frivolous. His Lordship, at very considerable length, went on to observe, that the words " or elsewhere, did not form a part of the ori ginal contract. The sailors were, in his opinion, wholly unconscious of what they signed when they placed their signature to the contract, which had been drawn up in a special manner, and which subjected them to the pains and penalties of the Act of Parliament, if they violated the terms of one particular clause, which, in fact, only applied to the West India trade. His Lord ship said, he had examined very carefully all the evi dence that had been adduced, and, it only strengthened his opinion that the words in the margin of the con tract, had been an afterthought, and insetted after the men had signed the instrument. It could not be sup., posed that, under the circumstances, they would banish themselves from their country, their wives, andfamilies, and travel with the Captain to all parts of the habitable globe. He considered the men had acted with great propriety, and he therefore pronounced that they were entitled to the wages they sought , to recover. INQUEST ON-CAPEAIN PITCHER. • Yesterday evening an Inquest was held at the Gun Tavern, Blackwall, upon the body of Captain T. Pitcher. The first .wittiess, Thomas Ribbons, a Greenwich watermark, deposed that on Thursday sen'night, near eleven o'clock, he took Captain Pitcher and a servant man belonging to the Captain's father, from the Isle of Dogs, for the purpose of crossing over to Greenwich. As.they were on their way there, arid when they had nearly crossed, the Captain said " there, is some cue calling sculler, you may. as well go back and fetch them. Witness at length turned back, and perceiving it was a steam vessel, waited at thi stern of a ship until she approached. The tide was running down, and she was coming up ; she had lights up to distinguish herds a steam vessel. He rowed towards her as she neared, . mid-asked if they • wanted a :culler ? to which they . replied yes, sad said if he would come alongside they --would stop her dead. The man who had the command of .ihe vessel said this. Witness got his boat alongside , I the wheel-box of the vessel, when the commander gave that the rate should be eased, and it was eased ; she was going at 4 desperate rate, and the swe.l • • m i n Ild 1 , I 4 ' • I , , • Wag Taff hiwy Tlbe ma ea. Sba-AO4 /4_ 1 1914 1 6 him, woes be caught in Ilia leit ininsa. WWI jie r r d tq keep the boat clear of tile side with his riniti s the swell threwler tender the hick part of, the arise, , aq thepaddl i es in i•Osk..vp . cot - off the half of, the t Which. was under. .did net perceive at. first what had iiippened, but on turning round he found the twn pasSengers out of the boat. He cried Out " For Gou g er sake, stop !" but the gown vessel did Oat stop until seer nl minutes after. His beat became, a. wreck in the water, and he held to it.. The steam vessel bsiat wad{ very promptly loosened to their aid, and the boy who was in it picked np the witness, and the servant. Wit ness heard Captain Pitcher cry out, 0 Here! here 1 . three times. eon rowing towards the spot from iv** the voice proceeded, for it was too dark to see, they 'heard nothing, he had sunk. • Mr. Hobler, jun, and Mr. 1. W. Hall, on the part of the Hull and General Seam Navigation Companies; cross-examined this witness at very great length; but he per severed in representing that the accident arose wholly from the negligence of the , pilot who had .the command of the steam vessel, in not stopping. The witness admitted, that some years before the life of tl passenger had been lost, by a boat Under his c Ira having been lost, that he is blind of•one aye, that he is near sighted, and it appeared his hearindis rather dull, The servant who was in the boat stated, that %shah the last witness was conduiting the boat tovearsks• the vessel, the deceased expressed his fears that he wan going too near; but the waterman said, Oh„no; Ain! was not, and proceeded. The water was greatly bled, and witness suddenly, felt himself thrown out ot the boat into to e water. Witness heaid Smith, , win? had the - command of tl:e vessel, give an order to ean her speed, but did not hear hem say that he would " stop her dead." A great mass of evidence was taken, which, after a per severing and close examination of the witnesses on the part of Mr. Nobler, the solicitor, and Mr. Hall; the agent of the Company, went to shwa that the witeir man's account was somewhat exaggerated that there had been no promise to " stop her dead," and that he had imprudently approached her; whilst, on the other hand, it was shewn that the - speed of the vessel wi l ts moderated only to a little less than four miles per hour against the tide, which is equal to seven through the fluid, the tide being then, according to some of the witnesses; running at three miles per hour. • A pilot, who was on board as a passenger, said he should not have thought it safe to board her at night time,_whilss she was going at such a rate, and that when the Cap tain, had charge of the vessel (at the time of ,the dent it aas under the charge of Smith, a pilot), at Orford Ness, he first moderated the speed of the, ves sel, and then stopped it entirely, before he took any passenger on board. His condyct an intelligent witness ,_presented as very cautious and praiseworthy. it *as practicable to stop a. vessel almost in three seconds; but it was not, Mr. Hall stated, customary to stop thee machinery all at once "dead," as the impetus of the vessel would perhaps occasion the wheels to be broken. Several other *messes were examined to the sense eireit, after which, Smith, the pilot, was called into the mom. • Mr. Stirling told him that he was not bound to iVi swer any question, or to say anything that might tend to criminate himself. Smith then said, that he went on board the steal* packet just before she reached Greenwich, at which place a man came up to hien and said he wanted; to go ashore. He referred him to the Captain, and press sently he. came back and called 64 sculler," and or dered-the vessel to be eased ;i but before he COtild be heard in the Machine room the boat was wrecked.—. The vessel was going at not more than four, knots and a half an hour, end he should not be afraid to . ap proach her when going at that rate in a wheriy. He went aboard at Bugsby Point, to assist .the Captaiti, and he felt confident, that had the waterman known his business, the accident would not have happened. Smith was then desired to leave the room, and the Cot oner addressed.the Jury, saying it was for them to consider whether there was. any necessity to adjourn the inquiry ; and after recapitulating the evidence, all strangers were ordered to withdraw. The Jury, after immure deliberation, found the following verdiCer.: r " That the deceased, Captain Pitcher, came by his death by accident, attended wits negligence on the part of those persons who had the management of the York:Airman steam packet, upon which they levy a deodand 1501." A Meeting of the-United Parishes of St. Gregory and St. Mary Magdalen, was announced to take place ycsterday, for the purpOse of petitioning against the Rcman Catholic Claims. When there were about fie. teen persons assembled. the Rector took the Chair, but Mr. Huncossaa pointed out that the Mating had not been convened according to the,provisions of the Act of. 1818, regulating Parochial Meetings, and, : no petition . was proposed., We understand that a clue hits been found to the ,robbery of the old messenger of I banking-house, who several months ago was robbed of between 30001. and 50001. in Beet-street. It will be recollected t e at the messenger complained of having been followed and spoken to by a man of suspicions appearance, in Sr. Pours Churchyard, and also in Fleet-street, and that a sort of hustling took place near Shoe-lane, where the parcel of notes was missed by the messenger imele diately afterwards. Not one of the notes ever came to hand since that time .until last week, when two well. dressed men- called at a banking.house in the country. in . the beginning of the week, and asked tor small notes for a Bank of England note of very large amount. The house informed them that it would be more con. venient to let them have drafts upon London hankers for the sum, and that they might have the money as they pleased. They were perfectly well satisfied with this arrangement, and took drafts upon some banking. houses in the City. Soon after their departing it occurred to the country firm, upon reflection, that there was something odd in the conduct of the parties while applying for the change, and that it was very extraor dinary that they should present to them a Bank note for so serious an amount. They agreed upon the pro. priety of sending off to London. A messenger was dispatched. Immediately on his-arrival in town he went to the banking-houses upon which the diets had been given in the country to stop payment, butte arrived too late. The drafts bad bcen paid in Bank of -England notes. He then ran to the Bank of England. and, we understand.. that just its he applied to know whether .the large note, of which he had possession. was a stolen Dote, the •persons who had received the change were actually presenting the notes which they had received at the Louden banking-houses, and were about to re• cei v e sovereigns for them. wiLia • -~ 44 rT ~~