Star. — London, England, 1805-02-22 00:00:00

• - The Duke of CLARENCE, faid that the Tuition was not whether the Bill was necetfary, bat whether they Mould pars it without Inquiry. The Noble Sc. cretary (poke of his veneration for the Habeas Cor- pus, and yet in his anion fporied with it in the troll wanton manner. What had Minißers been doing for the fix weeks that Parliament had fat, not to bring in this nsoft important Bill in time to allow the Houfe to difchargc their duty to the country? Earl LIMERICK. went at Tome length into a flatement to thew the argent nature of the tneaftwe, and Paid, that even mercy to the peafantry of Ire- ' land demanded that they &cold pats this Bill, to protell them from the machinations to which they were fubjett. • The Earl of DARNLEY was averfe from grant- ing fuch a power to any lit of Mitsitlers, and to the prefeni leaft of all—For it was known that they were totally divided among themfelves as to the treatment of the Irith people. One let of them had gone out of of f ice exprefsly becaufe they could not obtain for the Irith what they thought they deferred, and what would keep them loyal. The other had come in on the exprefs condition of withholding from the Irith this boon. Could he give to fuch men this tremen- dous At without inquiry ? Earl LIMERICK explained. Lord AUCKLAND declared his conviction of the neceffity of the Bill, and at the fame time could not figure any objeltion as to the propriety of dif. charging the two (landing orders of the Houfe, which, tntlead of being an infringement, was in itfelf a recognition of their privileges remaining in full force. Lord GRENVILLE raid, that the Bill went to in- fringe greatly upon the liberty of the fubjeft. For- merly an inforreition was the excufe, but there could not be any fudden infirrreßion now. If there were any, why did not his Majefly's Minifers bring for- • ward Come mean of precaution during the whole five weeks that Parliament had been fitting, inflead of adopting a plan ro highly objeitionable as the pre. fent one, which nothing but the molt indifpenfable neceffity could jellify. He raw with furrow an at- tempt to infringe upon the rules of the Houk. He thought it would be more manly and fincere to pars Inch a Bill through the Houk in the ufual manner, without hurrying it on without due confideration, and informing ourfelves of its real neceffity. His Lord- !hip, in a concife fpeech, went over the fame grounds that had been formerly urged againti the Bill. Lord MULGRAVE thought it remarkable, that • while all their Lordthips on the other fide of the Houfe had expelled their determination not to op- pore the bill, they Rill withed to objet to the only martin that was calculated to give it due and time- ly ate. He was particularly alloniffied that the Noble Lord who (peke lag, mould blame Milkers for entrufting the fafety of Ireland to the chance of the winds and waves, while he himfelf wilbed, by in- terpofing delays, to add to the dangers to be from thence expefied. But fill more was he aftonithed to hear that Noble Lord recommend to the Govern- ment of Ireland an infringement on the law of the land ; while be himfelf was to much afraid of a de- parture from a Rending order of that Honk, even when it was fought to be difcharged in virtue of ano- ther order of the Houk equally binding. The quettion was then put, that the two Standing Orders, 26 and 135, be difcharged. On this (ruffian the Houfe divided—Contents 41 — Non Contents 13 —Majority 28. The Houk then went into a Committee on the Bill, when the Duke of Ccasssics moved, as an Amend- ment, inftend of the words 4, do continue for the fpace of fix weeks ear the iseetiq of thensext Seem of Parlia- ment." the worth after the date of the paps ofthis This Amendment was negatived without a divifion. The other clanfes were then gone through ; the Report way received ; the Bill was read a third time ; paired ; and a Methge to that effee ordered to be fete to the Commons.—Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. A new Writ was ordered to be Wised for a Member to terre for the Borough of Caine, in the room of Jo( k 0 Jekyl, Efq• who has accepted oldie place of one of the King's CounfcL Mr. Atestur pretested at the Bar an Account of the V wipes and Expenditure of the Thames Navigation, for the years Ms and sins. Mr. MAT Informed the Houk, that be would defer his motion refpet9ing the Retail Duties in Belfalt,&e. as he underttood there were other Petitions to be prefented on the Cubic!! to the Hook. Lord Dome brought up the Reynt of the quarantine Bill, which was ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. Mr. Ferree amoved, that there be laid before the Houfe an Account of the Ida Exports and Imports for the year ling. The Account was accordingly prefented. An Account she prefented of the fevers! Loans borrowed In this meatry for the ufe of Irelend, which was ordered to be printed. On a queltion being put by Mr. CALCRAIT to Mr. HUSIIISSON. *Rimer Oentkusan replied, that the expenee of the management K the Sok Duties would not amount to more than one per tent. He Joon Newroar moved for feverg Accounts relative to Re- Verlomary Grants and Places in Ireland once the sth of January, mks alto of Osimagatioas for Boroughs, and the Amount of the 1.pr...0 of the Commillooers, ceding under the Compenfadon Adklb Ireland, Ike which were ordered. The 8/ICRITAItT at WAR moved, that there be laid before the Hook an Account of the Return of Men raifed under the Army of Ream Ace, from the eft of January, ring, to the sth of ja- Leary, ellos. The Loom 818 ems brought in by Mr. HUSRISSON, and was read a aro time, and orderedto be read a feeond time to-morrow. The Thanks Glebe Hook were voted, on the motion of Lord Douse, to the Rev. Mr. Hall. for the Sermon preached on the Fait Day before the Houk. which was order,:d to be printed. Mr. Hose' sews brought In the additional Pottage Bill, which S sae read a APR time, introrderod to be read a fecond time to- morrow. Mr. MIMI/Sill brosibt In the Horfe Duty Bill.—Sir WAT RI IV:Luaus WVIIRS gave notice that, as being a Tax on the Agri- culture:tithe country, be would oppek the Bill in all its Rages— It was then read s Lit time, and ordered to be read a (camel time to-morrow. ' Lord Alicumazo Heantron deferred his motion refpedlng the arenlatlog Ptilediona of Ireland till Monday fennight. M r . Joaiesrosa awed. that tie Diftribution Account ilicadd be printed, whit& was prefaced to the'sift of lag mooch,—Or. tiered Mr. Gists deferred his notice of motion, which Rood for Mon- day, relpeding the renewal of the Aft for appoindng Commit. Amos of Naval Enquiry, till Friday fentigtst. • Mr WINDHAM writhed to know it the Account, moved for by him, of the number employed on the Recruiting Star, was ready to be tald before the Houfe. The BRCR [TART at WAR obferved, that he was not aware that Swim:: which had been moved for was not returned. NATION•t. Daoaaci. Mr. WINDHAM role to make the motion of o hid he had given notice the firft day of the Seffion. This motion had been, from time to time, on reverel occafions deferred, but only once at his feggation. Until to-day. he had bad no opportunity to bringit fa ward finite Friday 'Alt ; this being the firtt day 'once than, on "bids lit was able to call the attention of the Houk to the fubjed. The motion which he flsould have the honour to fubmit to the Houfe would be very much the fame as that of his Honourable friend (Mr. Fox), though in Tome (lender parts there would be a difference. His Hon. Friend had moved for a Committee to revile the fcveral ads for the De fence of the Country, and to confider of meafures for rendering the force for the National Defence at once complete and permanent. His motion fbould likewife be for the revifion of the ads, and alfo to confider of the means heft calculated to render our force complete and permanent r and that thefe queftioas might be confidered in a Com. mittee of the whole Houle. If thole Gentlemen who fupportcd the propofition for a Committee fait scflion, were not totally bereaved of juft confidera tion and feeling, they would either. adept the pre. pofition of a Committee now, or (hew why they deem ed fuch a proceeding not called for by the (tate of the country, and the fituation and nature of its pub lic force. If be argued with thofe Gentlemen, he Should expel that they would acquaint the Houfe of what bad happened (lace laft Seflion, that ren dered a Committee not neceffary and would ex ped to find them prepared fo to balance the account, as that the weight of the reafons would decifive ly fall to the fide of their diffent. They would be expelled, too, to balance the account of the ac tual or relative force of this country and the enemy, front which they inferred our greater fecurity and the inutility of fuch a Committee as the one for which it was his intention to move. On the other hand, if it was thought that the danger was leffened, it would be incumbent on thole who thought fo to evince the grounds of their belief. But if the danger was not removed, if our Situation was impaired, and theirs (the enemy's) improved, the neceffity for a Com mittee could not be denied. The danger to be con fidered was not a temporary and momentary dan ger, but. on the one band, one not likely to return, or on the other, fuch a danger as was imminent, and would be likely to endure. He was of opinion. that our force was totally inadequate to the demands of the cries. Yet Gentlemen of various feotiments would have different notions of this matter. Several would perhaps think a Committee unneceiTary. But if they tell the Route, that from the importance of the Volunteers we have both an adequate force, and that our danger is materially ditiaiuifiied, be muff be neverthelefs of opinion, that the Rate of the Volan. Leer Force did not alter the cafe, unlefs for the vrorfe. What was to be confidered was, the general Rate of oar military eftablifhments as they were connected with the general fecurity. One thing would occur to alt, that with refped to the late Defence Ad, thole who did not think that fufficient would vote for the Committee. He could only talk of that after forme, for to his apprehenfion it had not produced any thing of a force to conftitute it at all an efficient, or in any fence an efficient meafure. He had ever thought the Defence As incapable of producing that good to the Rate which its authors fiud it would.— bitch who thought otherwife, would guide their vote accordingly. If there were thofe who thought the Rata of the National Defence not complete, at the time when the Committee of tall Seffion was moved for, and who thought the fyftem wrong then, and who think it right now, they would give their rea- Sons for their change of opinion, and demonftrate to the Houk why, when nothing had been done to bet ter our fituation, they refuted to go into a Commit tee to invelligate the preeife condition of the national force. It would be quite whimfical to think that a Committee was not neceffary, on account of the ef fed produced by the Defence A. That Aft, toge ther with every thing which had been done to co operate with it, had not only not improved our &tui tion, but bad made it much worfe : the fyftem was radically a bad one. In regard, however, to the detail of this fyftem, it was far from his intention to deny, that there might have been fome parts, not in all views exceptionable, had the notions of the framers of them not been thwarted by vices of ma nagement. Indeed, a great part of the objection to the fyffem itfelf refulted from a confideration of errors, which did not belong to it, as to the men who were appointed to carry it , into execution.— Many things which had Seemed to him to require amendment, he bad pointed out in the courfe of thofe long debates, on the Subject of our military defence, which every Gentleman would recoiled.— He had never (aid, that railing men for rank, or railing men in Ireland and Scotland under the pro vifions of certain Statutes was, in itfelf or unwife. The objection he had made was, that by fuch modes men were railed under great difad vantages to the regular army, the recruiting for which was at once impeded, and rendered inefficient, by the high bounties given to men railed for rank. Still it was far from him to blame the laudable am bition of men of family and fortune to enrol them. (elves among the defenders of the Country I and, in many refpees, but molt afforedly not in any military Seale, their profufion might have falutary effects. He would not fay, that a man who was an heir to a large effete was wrong in railing money by annuities, for there might be good rufous for his fo doing ; yet it was the worn way of railing money. And this might be Paid of men railed for rank. As to the army of re feree, which it would probably be attempted to hold up as a bulwark, or as a great and efficient fource of military Strength and regeneration, his objeftio% was not, that it had not railed men, but that it had not railed men to the extent it propofed. Molt of the force the Minifter has ' 'is, however, from that quarter: yet, unlefs what he h as received diminifhes the objet. Lion to the eftabliflnent, the army of referee, as a fyftem, *as not lets than every other expedient to create an adequate force, inefficacious, vague, and objectionable. Without.doubt, this was the arriesso. tag ad hominess ; for the queftion laid between him and the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Pitt) over• againSt him. The Right Hon, Gentleman fupport ed the motion of his Hon. Friend LIG feffion now he thought that nothing whatever had been done to ameliorate our condition, in point of military ef fective force. The Right Honourable Gentleman had denounced the late, or mull he call them th e . late—now—the prefent blinifhi, as weak and Inca. pable ; now he thought the late miniStry incapable, and had no reafon to confider the prefent hang.. At. that time the Right Hon. Gentleman was in a mow. city ; be had hoped that his minority would have grown by this time into a majority but it was, tube tore, to be remarked, that with an UtCOIIUNOGOd•, day of mixture, if the minority had not grown to a majority. it had become a lmoa a new mmiltry.— Gen- Some of the meafures which the Right Hon. deman bad fince adopted, had failed, and fome had fucceeded. The Right Honourable Gentleman and his friends might accordingly tell us that we ought to wait the refult of fuch meafures as had not yet been fully tried. vremight be told that no meafure ought to be given up without the evidence of ma tured experience to ;stove its infufficiency. But if Gentlemen fhonld hold this language, it was fair to require of them not to look at the period paffing be fore them as a mere moment of time, bat to caft for. ward their view to diftant profpeas, to confider the fituation of this and all other nations, to revolve the Rate of the world, and with the belt and wifea fore fight they could poffibly have of the future, to ap preciate meafures now of doubtful efficacy, or of in determinate chamfter. We thould then be required IT/lather our army was complete, and could be ren dered permanent ; or whether we had as army ne w/tory so preibree our exigence 1 We could not be jail to onrfelves, wilds going farther, we did not examine our whole pofition ; and alcertain whether oar fituation is not very moth that of the feudal times, whenever; hour was an hourof uncertainty and alarm, when men flops with their arms ander their pil lows, or the workmen went into the fields arrayed for battle. Military queßions, and thofe among the reft, were difcuffed in great detail lall Sefton. Vat changes bad taken place fince then. Our fituation. indeed, refembled, in one fenfc, that of France. that has turned heel:ditties:a of Finance, and Minifters of grate, her men of letters, and the whole varieties of her diainguiffied men, into Generals and Colonels.— But thefe petty alterations did not make a fy Ran, and leaf of all did they contlimte any thing bor dering en a wife, ltrong, and efficieot organization ? —What, therefore, was material to be afcertained was, whether we bad fuch an army as was adequate to the neCeffity of the country, as was well organ heed, of a fens in proportion to the efforts it coil us, and to the money expended in its formation As a part of this queftion, it would be requifite to enquire whether, if the Pyftem for recruiting the ar my, now purfued, yields men comparatively enough for its wants, it yields them in the belt Mann' ? And, foppofing all this, does h fiend on a footing long to maintain dell, and to provide for its perma nent eminence ? Unita this could be anfwered in the affirmative wilds it could be proved, that our mill. tary eftablilltment is good and comprehenfive in pro portion to our exigency, in the degree in which it hat been and is expenfire. unlefs we can el on its dura tion, there is a neceffity for enquiry. • Anottar quef tion occurs as immediately the refult of this latter confideration, which was, that if we have an fumy, and if that army be not pennaoaft, bow (hall we be able effe&ually to render our army permanent ? And this quellion is of itfelf one which Would warrant, the inquiry he amid propofe. But what was the charafter of our army 1 It broached out under four different heads. There were the Volunteer fyßens, the Militia, tie Army of Referee, and the Regular Army. One of his fira objeaions to our army was, that we had fuch a variety of force. They were all different fpecies of troops; fit Only for different fer vices. It did not coollitute the Volunteers an army that they wore red coats ; but as forming'a slight& fpecies, they were y to be confidered as a - pante army. Or, pr e d Volunteers & were as good as any other troops, why bad we not all Volunteers ? But certainly nobody would fay that all thofe de fcriptions of forte were alike valuable. Troops for ' foreign fervice could not be the fame, in point of &it cipline and qualifications, as thole for home fervice. Or if one porpore include the other, why not fend the Volunteers on foreign fervice, and Ration the Re it home The faft was, however, that the Re gulars derived all their confecreoce, 'as a mili tary body, from the impaired and impoverithed fate of our Regular Army. Yet it would perhaps be Paid that this was not fo material, as the great hole would prevent the lefii from being fo much noticed. The little hole in the charalter of our arm/ occafion ed by the deficiency of members and not by the defi ciency of spirit or talent in our Regular Army,would not be perceived fo as to dee ourrredit or reputa tion, while the great hole it; the Volunteers remained as a contra. This argument might be thought a good one for him, but it would be a bad one for Mi nißers to tile. It wairthe confolation the man offered himfelf, when he Paid aloud that the great hole in his great caffock hid the little hole in his little cal% fock. But, in order to go into the queftion of the fulficiency of oar force, he was aware that be ought to examine feverally More four regular armies, as they bad been called, the Volunteers Army of Re feree, Militia, and Regular Army. In doing fo, it would be neeeffary to confider, whether they were filch as would anfwer the purpofes of prefent defence, as would give the g reaten force out of the fame num bers, how far they interfere with each other, and how far they were in nature filch as would permit of con• eert of fyßens, and unity and iptegrity of iaion.— This view of thole fubjeas, he was not unaware, would carry him far. He would be very glad if, in the confideration of them, he could pall by - the Vo lunteers altogether. An infeality of our fituation, was that remaining part of our military eftabliament. they could not be put out of fight in military difeuf lions ; though, in reference to the organization of legitimate fyllems of efficient military defence, they were anomalies. Volunteers were - not foldiers, be cede they were dreffed like fuch, any more than' the mili t ia was an army, becaufe its Field-Offi cers moUnted horfes like thole of the regulars.— As to ebe general view, however, which be thonld take of the queftion of our force, its fufficiency or in: fufficiency, and of the Volunteers in particular, he would rather Rate opinions, than go into arguments ; and leave to the recollettion of Gentlemen thole which he and otheri had employed LIR Sefficm. Not one opinion which he held then was changed fince. He entertained his opinion unaltered on reflation; and from experience. Yet what be thought of the Volunteers as a fyttem, did by no means-reflea od the Volunteers as the people of England, armed in • defence of their Kin* their country, their laws, their liberties, and their religion ; perfealy.ieady to 'clO what was their belt, and if they had not - done their bell, it was the fart 4 of thofe who ought to have pointed out to them the only fit fphere of their ;eal, wore,. and devotion.—(4 cry of hoer /leer . 1 2—In staltuning the changer of this force, its -Alia ption to the ends of its Inßitutioa, its capacity of improve meet, and title to form a part of our permanent (yf tem, he fhould confider it in the three-fold view of military, civil, and political. Viewing them as a po litical body, if they pars over without inconvenience to a (tate of (Lability, to give them a prolonged poli. tical exidence would be dangerous. The political danger was to be apprehended not as liable to occur in fettled, but in unquiet times. If ever fuch times thonld arrive, which he trolled never would, he was fearful that difcontents would be found to fly natu rally to the people from the Volunteers. We have not yet had a general election (ince the formation of the Volunteers, but until we had, we could not know what danger would refult from a forced and prolanged political exiflence of that body. The civil effect was as it would operate on the general manners and habits of the people. It deftroyed the relations of life. It filled men with conceit, arrc• gance, and vain and idle pretentious. It contributes to bring down the high and exalt the low. He was as little as any man difpofed to clad humiliating fubmilfions from one clafs to another ; yet, if im overbearing aritlocracy wouhil be odious, it would be found that the fubordination of the claffes, in al/ the relations of fociety in the country, was not more requifite to the high than falutary to the low. In the hiflory of one of the ancient commonwealths, we read of one who kept an attendant conftantly near his perfon to remind him, when his pride grew immoderate, that he was only a man. The fame thing happens, but more extenfively and :lore beneficently in our nation, when, during our general elections, the higher and the lower orders intermingle almoft indifcraninately, which is the happy effect of the form of our government, and that the whole is balanced and adapted to general ends and purpofes of honour ; fecinity to the rich, and comfort and fecutity to the poor. But in there times, the fyftem of throwing men together, without diftindion of rank, of mixing ..the noble wi th the menial, liable to the confute or the praife (which is the fame thing as the refection) of men who cannot efiimate their feelings, and will not ' recognize their tuperiority, is loch a fydem as threatens the conftionion of 'things with a dreadful revolution. ' How ungracious the circunsflance, of a fet of men, of the lowed habits and molt contracted views, fitting in judgment on our high fpirited youth, men of rank, the flower of the riling generation, and heirs of the titles and domains of our nobility, and of the &ft and molt honourable orders of the (tate. There ii belonging to loch charaaeri astride a fplen dour which demands admiration, arid dignity which calls for reverence. Our country is the foremoft in the world to bellow jail confederation on Mud:ions defcent and noble aaions. NO people are more ready to pay the homage - due to rank ; but not to rank as fuch, but to fuppored wind's, and if the virtues worthy of rank di not oairt, it is the fault of rank, and not of thofe who pay them in advance a gratuitous ho mage, as the :need of their Imaginary. virtues. But this is that fort of homage which fhould be cultiva ted, and not the unrefleaing, undiftinguithing ato ciatioh of the high with the low, where the tormer difcriminat9trie of their rights, antrthe littir none of their Midis. It was not thus when ibe gifts of the noble youth of former times were valued by v./leaky, not it the boon of belt, but as a mark and a tokinrof envious cosidefeenfion. In thcife times, the purity of the heart was poured forth in fon& in admiration of the genuine virtues of birth and rank. This reminded hint of a verfe of theilset s beginning ' Cam list's non mitt des Sed data. The man that gives only nearks of attention rotted to his sank produces the happieft effeas 'on the military fpirit of the country ; and fyftems (hotild be made tO aim at the promotion of that gallant, but molt deli cate exercife of the virtues. It is what infpires cond. deuce. But the Volunteer fyftem, fo far froth being s teriire of confidence, is i fervice of din er. If it was meant to make are °filth as troops . the lice (and without difcipline were given t h em et retold bus , e ufelefs) thep' that certainly one defence w ould be tenderest a ferilce of danger I it would b e in hoods utterly intompetent to its fupport. Many different reports were'pren. of the mime and litelit y of this force. Tim reminded hint of voyages Where the wri. termay jell you ii great many things that are falfe, and many things that are true, but the one is a cau tion not too 'readily to adopt the other. He derived a caution from thofe reports to view the Volunixeri as an unfafe force, to be ufed as troops of the line.-- Abfkraftedly, it might be raid, that a pidol was a more efficacious weapon than a bludgeon ; but if the powder were wanting, the flints out of order, and the hand 'unpradifed, a bludgeon was fuperior. Red caps, and cheering with military mufic, would not rade an army. 1 o form an army, men mu d b ot h be well difciplined, and haye feet; much fervice.— There is nothing fo like a than, as n good pis ure of a man. There is nothing fo like a painted army, that with which children delight themfelves, as a dread-up tribe' of VOlunteels. An army, properly fo called; is a faaitious thing: In this country we do not procure an sonny by compulfion ; yet the military habit is com_pulfory, the offspring of a rigoroiis dila pline. Rutfia, thiunark, Sweden, and even Aufiria, taste their armies by compulfory means ; but in Eng land fervice is fcarcely elle than voluntary; and, un til lately, correaly without bounty ,• for, till lately, the bounty was only a guinea, which was no induce ment. However, this was a tydem which infured a fupply to the army. The preterit loofe varieties of an almoft nondefcript force, enfured no fupply at all. In adopting a (yawn in part, we lore the advantage of the whole. Surely a free country had not lefs means of defence than an arbitrary country. Why mig;it no , wk raife a fufficient army, in a legitimate way? Forei A r. defences were necelfary to our domettic fecurity ; but we' had not a difpofable face, which was what lie wentedto give the country. But there mutt be :rue difcipline of foldiers. Dreffing and difcipline was the foul of an army. Plumbs and batter and egos and fugar were good things in themfelves, but mi x.,l up by a careful and fkilful hand, they become that pretty excellent thing we call a pudding. There was reafon, fenfe, and pnilofophy in this. As to the se smiting ferried it had undergone remarkable altera tions. Not long after the American war the bountv role to ten guineas; at the beginning of that war it was but a guinea and a crown. In the year 1772, an Officer (and he could himfelf remember the circuni. fiance) was threatened to be difmilfed, for hiving given two guineas and A half bounty. At the iilne s o( du American war the bounty got up to three