Star. — London, England, 1818-05-28 00:00:00

• -- • C.,& Gist, he was rather sueprised that he should object talieth a proceetliabl. ejnquiry was not against honourable Trustees, but for the purpose of ascer taining facts necessary to direct the proceedings of Parliament with regard to the Education of the Poor. They had a right so to inquire, and it was time enough when the result of their investigation was known, to state in what way it was proposed to le gislate on the subject. The Noble and Learned Lord 'had shewn great acuteness at various times in pick big boles in Bills, but when he undertook to bring forward Bills of his own, he did not always manifest the most extraordinary sagacity in their preparation. This fact reminded him of a story he had heard of a certain Member of Opposition, who, sell& he,re xnained with his party, delivered many eloquent speeches, but on being transferred to the Adminis tration, spoke with less talent than before. The cir cumstance being mentioned to Mr. Soarne Jennings with some expression of surprise, he answered, that it was nothing extraordinary. A man, said he, has spent his life m breaking windows, and you want to 'Flake him a glazier—(A latigh.)—lt was because the subject required investiration—because Parlia. went had a right to inquire into it—and because the mode of inquiry proposed to be adopted was recog nized by the practice of Parliament, that he should vote for going into the Committee, and afford the Bill every support in his power. Lord REDESDALE was convinced that the Bill could do no good,• and might occasion infinite mis chief. The Commissioners would not do their duty if they di 1 not rigidly inquire into all Charitable Foundatims ; and if they did do • th eir day, it would give disgust to all who had hitherto executed their trusts most faithfully and beneficially: the measure would also have the effect of deterring every honest man from accepting a duty which might subject him, to malicious and groundless charges. The Bill, it bad been said, would be a vehicle for information but it would be a vehicle for scandal, and a vehicle for immense vexation. The expenses of carrying the Bill into effect would also be enormous. In each of 11,000 parishes in England, the expenses would amount to three or £4,000. It would thus occasion enormous taxation upon parishes. The machinery already existing was sufficient to correct any abuse that could be pointed out, and this Bill could there fore do no good. It would convert that House into a criminal court of justice. The effect of it would be to disqualify individuals from being Trustees. He had conversed with many Trustees, who said that they would not have accepted of the trust. if they had been aware of such a measure as this. The Bill extended to all contributions excepting those which were excepted." if Jews were excepted, why not Roman Catholics—why not Quakers ? The good charitable lady (Mrs. Fry) who was employed in re forming prisoners in Newgate, was not excepted from the inquiries of the Commission to be appointed. If such a Bill pncim, Trustees would consist only of persons of great zeal and of little discretion. He should on those grounds give his negative to going into the Committee. Lord HOLLAND explained. The Earl of CARNARVON said, that if the House was piepated to resist all preliminary enquiry, be caw*c they did not then know what might be the re sults of that enquiry, and to say that they would receive only specific bills for every ' abuse which could somehow or other be proved to t hem, this bill must, of course, be rejected. But, unless they were pre pared to go so far, he could conceive no reason, and he he ird no reason, why the bill should not be com mitted. It might come out of the Committee a bill much improved, and certainly a bill calculated to do infinite good. The House then di tents B—Majority for the Committee 2. The Bill was then committed. Lord LIVERPOOL, by several amendments in the preamble and clauses, restricted the bill to cha rities for the purpose of education. Several other amendments were also introduced and agreed to. The Report was ordered to be re ceived- to-morrow. 10—Non-con- After the various other Bills were forwarded in their respective stages, the House adjourned at Half past Eleven. ezi to. Ito tai Ps T 1 en I:n is foe T 1 to cn wi it • r the nit en( nil voi Bil ca ch . if Fo ' trtl WC ns to ha, bu for 11 au en , I ale .1; the I foe cri to . ha thi ha , WI RI ch . th su pe fi sh tRI w, ca SU rC so of he tm in • te rit an 4 ce tit to of NI sr WI 14 , 1 < nai • i rot • t to ' : et 1 fr t tri so t al di st i t.l ! . tl ti tl a { • .; 4\ HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. Marrimis, from the East India House, presented a Copy of the Resolutions come to by the Court of Directed's, re. speeting the Warrants for Pensikuts and Salaries granted by the Company.—Ordered to lie on the table. Mr.V. FITZGERALD announced it to be his intention not to press, in the present Session, his Bill for regulating the Office of County 'Treasurer in Ireland. The Navy Prize Bin, the East India Marriages Bill, the Negcelable Securities BW, and the Vinegar Duties Bill, were serenity read a third time, and passed. The Rock Salt Duty Bill was read a second time, and it then went through a Committee.—The Report of the Committee was ordered to be received to-morrow. The Soldiers' Pensions Bill; the Greenwich Prize Morey Bill, the Irish Exchequer Bale All, the Irish Treasury Bills Bill, and the Irish County Intirmariee Bill, went through Corn nraittees, the Reports of which were ordered to be received to morrow. The East India Shipping Bill was taken into further conside ration' re-committed, the Report received, and the Bill ordered to be road a third time on Saturday. Mr. CANNING presented a Petition frees the Watch and each Makers of Liverpool, against the BM for regulating their trade.—Ordered to lie on the table. Mr. COURTNEY protested papers relative to) the origin sad progress of the War in India.—Ordered to Ka on the table. The Report of the Irish Auctions Bill was brought up and agreed to, and the Bill ordered to be read a 3d time to-morrow. On the motion of Mr. MORITT, the second reading of the Mines' Assessment Bill was put off till that day three months. BICHIIQUER BILLS. Mr. MABERLY put a question to the Chancellor d the Exchequer, to know whether he properly un derstood his reply to the Honourable Member for Nottingham. He was reported to have said that he should not resort to a Loan or Fumding neat The Hen. Gentleman asked him likewise, whether there would not be forty-four millions of Exchequer Bills afloat at the end of the year ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that there would be forty-one millions of Exchequer Bills in circulation at the end of the year, besides three millions lying in the Bank, making together the sum mentioned by the Honourable Gentleman, 44,000,0001. and being considerably less than the amount of thins* now in circulation. In reply to the other part of the Hon. Gentleman's question, he bad certainly said that he saw no probability of being obliged to fund or to raise money by a Loan next year, having funded 4 large a stun this year. This autetnent was founded cru the great itriproyetuesst which had taken place, and on the present flourish ing state of the Consolidated Fund. He added. the Revenue was increasing at the rate of one hundred 'thousand pounds per week. The money market was redundant, and the general state of the country highly satisfactory. He had given no pledge, for that in his official situation, would always be im proper, as he could not foresee what circumstances might arise ; but he had stated truly, that he saw no , probability of being obliged to raise money next year by Loan. BRITISH SHISHITIG General THORNTON called the attention of the House to the Regulations under which the Public were at present admitted to the British Museum.-- He shelved, that though persons who had lived a good deal in the world - might find no difficulty in gaining admission for purposes of study, yet those who knew but little of the world were in effect ex chided by them. He suggested various alterations, with a view of affording increased facilities to those who wished. to be admitted for purposes of study, and concluded by moving for the production of the Regulations for general Admission to the Museum, as also those for regulating the admissions to the Reading Room, and to the Gallery of Antiquities. Mr. BANKES set forth the importance of pre serving the objects deposited in the British Museum in perfect security, and reminded the gallant General that, at no distant period, persons who bad been ad. mitted in the garb of inquirers had become dators. If the alterations suggested by the i c g= General were adopted, an additional Offier and an increased expense would be found necessary. After a few words from Mr. GVILWET and Mr. Wrusiz, the motion was agreed to. • BANKRUPT LAWS. - On bringing up the Report of the Committee on the Bankrupt Laws, Mr. JOHN SMITH spoke at great length on the evils of the present system. In the last Session of Parliament a Petition had been presented from a large body of the commercial world, setting forth the heavy grievances of which they had to complain under the present Bankrupt Laws. These had been proved by the evidence laid before the Committee, l and indeed he might say that new proofs had been laid before them, stronger than any that could have been anticipated, of the inefficacy of the measures now in force. On this subject the Committee had been assisted with the opinions cf several Gentlemen of professional eminence and high character, and in particular with those of Mr. Basil Montague, Mr. Cooke, and Mr. Cullen. Mr. Montague had stated, that in the City of London there were many person's who made a trade of proving false debts before the Commissioners of Bankrupts. Mr. Cooke had spoken to the same effect, and Mr. Cullen had asserted the majority of the Commissions of Bankruptcy to be neither more nor less than conspiracies on the part of the bankrupt and the petitioning creditor to defraud all the rest of the bankrupt's creditors. He had also the authority of the Lord Chancellor himself against the existing Bankrupt Laws, as he shewed by refer ence to what had fallen fromhim on a case that came before him in 1801. He described the course taken by the Committee in conducting this inquiry. They had first applied themselves to ascertain what de. scription of persons were liable to the Bankru pt Laws, and they had been of opinion that they ought to extend to all persons in trade. They considered all the acts of bankruptcy, or at least ninety-nine out of every hundred, to be concerted, and they wished to alter the law so that it should no longer be in the power of an insolvent person to wipe off the debts of the great body of his creditors at pleasure, and pay his friends and maintain his family with their property. To effect this, they thought it would be well that an individual who was insolvent should no longer be able to make a bankrupt of himself, but that an insolvent trader should be compelled to lodge a declaration, of insolvency with an officer authorized to receive it. They also wished to provide that such a person going abroad, not for the purpose of avoid ing his creditors, but about his business, *ould not be considered to have committed an act of bank ruptcy. They thought it might be improper to de clare a man a bankrupt till his shop had been shut up for seven days. One great grievance under the present system arose from the imperfect manner in which the bankrupts' property, books, and papers, were at present secured. This he traced to the man ner in which the messengers employed for that pur pose were appointed. He was most anxious to have it distinctly understood that whatever he might say against the existing system generally, he did not in tend to cast any imputation on the Commissioners of Bankruptcy. He knew they fiequently lamented their inability to do justice, and for his part, all cir cumstances considered, he wondered at their doing their duty so well. The scene of confusion in which they were obliged to sit at Guildhall to prove debts, subjected them to many inconveniences, and led to constant perjury. In the Bill he should move for leave to bring in, provision would be made for their better, accommodation at Guildhall or elsewhere. Among other improvements suggested by the Corn. mittee, it was proposed that every' person intending to prose a debt should be obliged to give notice to the Commissioners four days before, and that a re gister should be regularly kept that would give the public an opportunity of knowing what dividends were made, and what certificates signed. At present nothing was more common than for an individual to prove a debt that he ought not to prove, but if this should be discovered two minutes afterwards, the Commissioners had no power to strike it out, or to make any alteration, till they had petitioned the Court of Chancery, In the measure he wished to introduce, it was proposed to give them the power, in such a case, of setting aside a fraudulent creditor. In 1814, several active Members of that House had , inquired into the state of the Bankrapt Laws in Scot land, and the result of their labours had been a Bill which established a system there which was perfec tion itself, when compared with that which still ex isted In England. He continued to describe the evils at present experienced under the Bankrupt Law s , and stated that the Committee on them recommended strongly—and this they considered the principal fea ture of the new plan—the appointment of a new offi cer, to be called an Agent, who should be chosen by I the creditors, give security for his good conduct, and receive com or salary for Eu services, always subject to the ap • bb atiou of the Commissioners. It would be the duty of this Agent to attend to the whole of the proceedings that might take place in Bankrupt cases under this Bill. He now came to no tice the most important evil complained of under the present system—the ease with which dishonest bank rupts could obtain certificates. It appeared that they could obtain them with greater ease than the honest bankrupt could, as they were generally sure of the co-operation of fraudulent creditors who proved pre tended debts to qualify them to sign the certificate. To shew what the law was in this respect, he world, state one fact. A bankrupt before the Commissioners had been called upon to account for 17,0001. which it was known he had but a few months be fore. He accounted re e oL ed hundreds having mat various purchases here and there, and the remainder he confessed he had spent in follT and profligacy. Yet the certificate of this man was signed, and as the low. at present stood, he had a right to have it aireld because be had spoken the tru th . The sever/trai l the law which punished fraudulent bankrupts old.' tally, he condemned, as he considered its very sear sky to be the cause of their escaping punishment al together. He complained of the inadequate allow ance made to bankrupts, who co-operated with their creditors in recovering their debts. A more libxral allowance to honest bankrupts would be money wall vent. The Committee thought it would be right to allow the bankrupt, in some cases, five per cent. as the Commissioners should approve, but in no castles than two per cent. This, however, was to depend altogether on the good conduct of the bankrupt, to be decided upon by the Commissioners, and to apply `only to cases where 2,0001.. or upwards should be re covered. After some further observations on the ne cessity of altering the law, and an exposition of the abuses proved to be common in country bankruptcies, the Honourable Gentleman concluded by moving for leave to bring in a Bill to alter and amend the Bank rupt Laws. Sir J. NEWPORT said the Committee conceived, and with reason, that the present Bankrupt Laws were worse than no laws at all, as they afforded pro tection only to the fraudulent, and enabled the frau dulent to cheat every honest man in the count' y.— Some alteration hz held to be absolutely necessary. Mr. WROTTESLEY complimented the Honour. able Gentleman (Mr. Smith) on the great industry and ability which he bad exerted in the inquiry. He was of opinion that half the evil complained of would be done away, if the Commissioners of Bankrupts he The CityofLondon: were better knew were of opinion that they ought . to sit in Guild hall, but he was of opinion if a situation were chosen half way between Guildhall and Lincoln's Inn, it would be found equally convenient. A Gentleman who was concerned in building the Custom-house, had recently purchased Furnival's Inn, which he had offered to fit up for that purpose, and to receive the money by instalments. Mr. LOCKHART was glad that a measure was about to be introduced that would discriminate be tween the unfortunate and the fraudulent debtor. Mr. FINLAY offered his tribute of praise to the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Smith) for the part he had taken on this occasion. He approved of the pro posed appointment of a Bankruptcy Agent, which he thought would be productive of much benefit. The motion was then agreed to. BANK RKSTRICTION. A Message from the Lords announced their Lord ships concurrence with the Bill for continuing the Bank Restriction Act; and communicated the Re gency Regulation Bill, which had passed that House, and to which they desired the concurrence of the Commons. Lord CASTLEREAGH moved the first reading of the Bill now, with a view to its being printed, _ _ which the and named Monday as the earliest day to second reading could be conveniently taken. Mr. BROUGHAM was fearful that the motion he should have to submit to the House, respecting the charitable funds, would occupy almost the whole of that day, so that the Bill could not be proceeded with till a very late hour. The Bill was read a first time and ordered to be printed, and the second reading was fixed for Monday. Mr. BROUGHAM then postponed his motion, which stood for Monday till Tuesday. RIGHTS 01 VOTERS FOR COUNTIES. Mr. BROUGHAM called the attention of the House to the Circular Letter sent from Kendal, by a District Surveyor, to the Assessors, not to proceed in the assessment of the Land Tax until further orders. He maintained that this was a wilful disfranchise ment of voters : for if no assessments were made to l the land -tax, the Freeholders who were not assessed could have no right to vote. It was one of the gross est attempts that had ever been made to invade the rights of electors ; and this must be particularly im pressed on every man's mind, when one knew the quarter from which it came. Persons engaged in the collection of the revenue had always been excluded , from interfering at elections, under very severe peH nalties. Not one of them was allowed even to ask an elector not to vote; and it was much worse to in capacitate a man from voting. This conduct was also a violation of the duty which the Collectors of revenue owed to his Majesty; for they were bound to collect in a manner the most beneficial and effica. cious for the service of the Crown; and if they did not collect the tax upon a particular freehold when it was due, they were guilty of a breach of duty. It appeared that the letter to which he alluded was sent by a person named Thompson, residing at Ken dal. He concluded with moving—'4 That there be laid before the House forthwith, Copies of all Letters or Notices issued by John Thompson, Clerk to the Commissioners of the Land Tar, at Kendal, relative to the assessments of that tax, during the last three months ; together with the names of those Commis sinners by whose authority such notices or letters were sent." Mr. LUSHINGTON observed, that he had already stated, that no order of the kind alluded to by the Hon. Gentleman had been signed by the Treasury. A letter had been written by Thompson to Mr. Lowndes, of the Tax Office, wishing fot some infor mation respecting freeholds, because there had been some dispute respecting their titles. Mr. BROUGHAM—" If the object of the inquiry was to investigate the titles to those freeholds, that might take up a long time, and injure the rights of the freeholders." Mr. LUSHINGTON said the letter had been re ceived by Mr. Lowndes on the 12th of April, and the object was to know whether the Corahustioacrs had la right to assess these freeholders to tt . e Land T 4 Mr. Lowndes sent for answer that it depen.f:d oa t h title, quality, and value of the estate. Mr. BROUGHAM wished to know what had 31 4 Lbwndes to do with the sight of Conunissi assess, or talk about titles of elates ? be more disgusting than to see officers hel,,aging the Tax-office thus holding discussions resie tt i a votes at elections. Th e y h a d no other duty t o it ! form than that of collecting the revenue. Mr. LUSIIINGTON replied, that the Lasd. ct itself did not establish a right to voteHhear, /ie v j The question was, wheth er the COMMIS4OIIeIs a right to assess certain persons to the Land. tax t i e had not been assessed ? Mr. BROUG HAM—" It was not Mr. Cora c l e * de t to give an opinion on that point: t: I ;I7. I OW'rHER said, the pararraph in gnestie o first appeared in a count r y paper—E o k w . nothing of the transaction until be saw it publislsed. Sir JAMES GRAHAM said he had toeuther ra. ragraphs on this subject, in the same pape r , knew to be false. Many persons is the cnuntv Westmoteland had pressed forward to be assessed to the land -tax, who never had been assessed; and 4 1 . quiries were made of the Commissioners of Timis 7f. lative to their claims, and it was very pier to hine made such an enquiry. For his own part he knew ro. thin more on the subject, that w h at h e now sta;e:. After some remarks from the CRANCELLoI cf . the Exceactuaa, and Mr. W. Wrest, the motiosor a agreed to. WIDOWS OF otrtcrits IN FRI ARMY. Mr. LYTTLETON said he did not intend to Ras his motion relative to the af f idavit to be ow e b y Officers on half-pay, because he understrx,,r / was under consideration in the War-Office. He wi+ed, however, to ask whether he was tight in s appyi /g that the Widows of Officers who now half-pay were not entitled to a pension ; and ..thoher, if the Widow of an Officer martied her pension ? Ile also wished to how ;: t. „ true, that in following the recommendation io tLe Committee of Finance relative to Ceeteral Otiizers the Army, the choice of the Officers who cans: s; til the new regulation was in the Crown, and wlit they were to be taken according to their staidritr? No answer to these questions would be perfectly ss'..w factory to him, if it was jn the affirmative. Lord PALMERSTON said, that as to the Ent question, the regulation by which the Widows cf Officers who now married vn half-pay were to haw no pensions, was now under consideration. As a the second question, it was certainly tree, that bY the existing regulations the Widow of an Officer, by mar rying again, forfeited her pension. As to tlie rrFs lation adopted under the recommenda:ioa et t_4 Committee of Finance, the choice of the Geueral cers was in the discretion of the Crown ; :ad Lis Officers were not indiscriminately taken accertriars seniority. The reasons for this wee perfectlr oats, as being for the benefit of the public scrim. Mr. LYTTLETON said, he was i 1 a great degree satisfied by what had fallen from the Noble Lent and therefore he would not trouble the House Tick any motion on the subject. CAPE IRETON. Mr. BENNET, pursuant to his notice, mewed as Address to the Prince Regent, praying, that them be laid before the House a number of Orders Cea.• cil relative to the Duty on Rum in the Celow cf Cape Breton, and Correspondence between the 6. , vernor of that Colony and his Secretary, and the x-• cretart of State. The Honourable Gentleman pre faced his motion by some observations OR the rains of the Colony. Mr. GOULBURN said, that the Correspondence between the Governor, his Secretary, and the Se cretary of State, related merely to a private qurrei, in which the House could not be interested; he therefore hoped that part of the motion walk! be withdrawn. He did not object to the production d the other Papers. Mr. BENNET then withdrew that part orbit mo tion which related to Correspondence. The motion was then agreed to. COURT OF CHANCIRT. Sir JOHN NEWPORT rose, pursuant to his m tire, to submit to the House a motion relative to 1.5 e Commissioners appointed two years ago to imp:iv into abuses in the Court of Chancery in England.— The motion which he meant to propose was foucdtd on a passage in the last Report of the Finance Com trainee, which alluded to the proceedings of these Commissioners. At the time when the House avvv.l to his motion for the appointment of these Comm sioners, he had expressed his decided opinion that re . Master in Chancery, or engaged in the hue ness of that Court, ougt7:o 6 be nominated as Cos missioners. Contrary to his opinion, however, the Commission, as now constituted, included Mr. Cam? bell and Mr. Alexander, two Masters in Chancery, besides other Gentlemen in the profession of the law, and they had all salaries of 1200 it a year. they should be so largely paid, when the Commis sioners appointed for the same purpose in Stolid had only eight hundred pounds, he did not bros.-- But although more largely paid,: it appeared, this instead of doing their duty with more activity odors the Irish or Scots Commissioners, they had been mcdi less active. The Irish Commissioners had prmentre several Reports, and the Scots Commissioners hail presented four; whereas these English Conamiumc en had presented only one Report. And even in thaw s Report they had committed so signal a mistake,tha they had been obliged afterward. to make up a sere rate appendix or supplement to con err it. Tilts tray take was, that by their Repoit they had saactsooed the payment of a fee of from one guinea to twerp seven shillings, which it bad been usual to pay ra the admission of solicitors to practice in the CALit of Chancery', although there was in existence as Act of Parliament which expressed directly that such fee should not, in any case, exceed one think% Scn*. kind friend having pointed out the blunder, 60.C* missioners published the supplement to their it stating that they had overlooked this Act Ve single instance would enable the House to joc'''' the mode in which these Commissioners est I, e di their duties, and of the superior fitness of Mat ten Chancery to form a part of such a Cozonii:si.n. " 44 they overlooked an Act relating to the huar.•%t ". their own offices. Yet this Commission hai s l ra-1 cost the country 21,000 L although the Irish l'earn= non, which had done its duty so much men-4A talk; cost oali 13,0001. aad the Scots