Star. — London, England, 1818-04-16 00:00:00

ussignel to the ilittstrions' lmartied state, he•did not justice or in }Jolley, to re rinciple, that the illustri ,rovision was to be made, income, without having come subtracted from the . conceived there should be, en the provision made for ons in the married and un hey ought not, in voting, tir.g their establishments r resource they might have. 1 , confined their grants, in its which the)* mig ht - derive :s—they would damp in, of enterprise and ambition their talents in public life.' ding principle, which went ivicluals, that no exertion nofession, would ter.d to tainly it would not, if in use of their abilities, the hand, when called on to far them. Their situation the respect it commanded, autages—but many disad ed to it. They were a pri particular situation for the anted from the enjoyment individuals enjoyed. They endent existence for them- much less could they- amass Lek posterity. He thought principle to an extreme, if, dded to their emoluments, for narrowing the income :essary to enable the Royal ught to do, in a married or :ouse would the more rea e question, for they would iditional emoluments never aide as dangerously to dis s adopted by Parliament.— to the employment of the Hanover. An Honourable o calculations of what the rious Duke were. It would, n he stated the case, that prevailed with respect to it, uke received nothing which use from doing him an act ild add, of ju.stice. La the peas, in the strictest sense of le, and he never would have e not been pressed by his il. ce Regent. That the illus. Ton it as a mere temporary n this fact, that he had not, abroad, altered any one of is in this country. His re hment of servants in Eng the same as when he left he received, including every as only 6,0001. a year.--and ment abroad ought not to ing treated as the son of the he Duke of Clarence had but his half-pay of eleven as Admiral of she Fleet---P. d, that all the Royal Dukes f a military nature—(hear). Ore, which went to prevent provision to a certain extent :ount of great emoluments es, was not made out. He information—but the docu uld be made out, would be With respect to the Duke pr of Gibraltar, and also had From these sources he per annum. but it should be ientary allowance was made to his Royal brothers. He in the Colonies—and he en- Pe years later than any of his six years after some of them. gave him the government of hers had had acts of grace T, which placed them in a Now, as he conceived, that mentary provision, any sum might obtain in the British of a State so nearly connect mover, would deprive them tion which ought always to ted that neither the situation ige nor of the Duke of Kent innate against their interest, country. After the feeling f in the course of the former it appeared to the servants dispensable duty to examine sely. They had minutely in ls, in order to see whether any lade, which would neither put Pates' alliances, nor yet involve es. In forming their estimate, their own feeling, but had been )f those more experienced than who well knew the difference pat was necessary for a Public id for a private one. With ice to the Duke of Clarence, was almost as little as could ply not leis than 10,000/..-- psonable hope was entertained stablishment. In deciding on , it became a question whether ranted or aot--.(Near, hear.) other branches, the Dukes of d Cambridge, it was agreed tb provision for them to 6,0001. s the lowest sum that circum. As to pin-money, it was an the husband and wife, lnd was, om the gross sum. The pro ake of York, for that purpose, posing that the Duke of Cla the net increase, for all addi be 7,0001. a-year. The same !d by the other Royal Dukes, ,ould leave a net increase of -le did not think 7,0001. a-year .e of Clarence, and 3,0001. to on their marriage, could, on any prittsiple • wondered that the Ho proceeding in she stme*elegant calked the Members who coin. ' , .gang".. The Gentlemen air' a were Permits of :sec= ; that - therefore cal en whisitta ground feelongssaf onimi Pottrih seis4 4iesii and perhaps not leisla..thirkfunneeithle.emd Learned Aelleel3lmigham) in some .of his .hehosaji se edears, certainly not in ir re 'from the same sl theHonourable and Learna min fodnd•the elegant .expression "Tlickesl"),; Might be calked ".Ihe giji die gab I"—.(Laughtet) , would nasotbing further .as to the character of that meeting, since even the Honourable Geode:- man hlniselralowiseLthat is Was coteposed .tiany of the tklast Tespectahluiiinnbers. of the Homes, . As to such meetings in general, be Was decidedlrofispii• niort that they'avekeyralcillatedto produce Veryitsste rat effects. The present occasion .was fail indsiabe For such was the respect shown by Ministere ilithe opinion.of these 'who composed this meetings it- manifesting the public opinion, :that they had imp ceded from their Original-pnopcsal. With respect eq the resolution nov/ moved, for a provision feria* Duke of Clarence, he could not concur in ility.pmet Position which wad& plate that ill 2 . 1; a situation in which he did not stand, elm. • presumptive to the Thartre--(hear, Male Lord who moved the Resolution bad taken Teases views of the subject, but there was one view al ie which the Noble Lord had not taken. The Duke of York was married, and had been married for some time, without having any issne but supposing any circumstance should occur which should enable his •Royal Highness the Duke of York to marry again ? The case was one which it was fair on such an occa sion to take into contemplation. And if it should occur, would not his Royal Highness then very justly come to the House and say, that be was in the same litigation as his Royal Highness the Prince of Sate e+burg, when the House had voted the provision for Mtn? In this view, and on the very principle which had regulated the House in its vote on that occasion, kit could not agree to any measure which would distin viish the Duke of Clarence from any of the younger members of the Royal Family. He would readily con car in voting a provision of 60001. a year to the Duke of Clarence, in addition to his present income bat further than that he ought not to•go—(hear, hear). — The. Noble Lord - his brought forward the present motion with great candour, and had stated the rounds on which .Ise - prop osed it, and these out which Ministers had• receded from the original pro. Bin still the Noble Lord seemed not to have laid the whole 'subject before the House. In 'toms puting the revenue of the Duke of Clarence, he had stated the provision already voted by Parliament 1441001. and in addition 2,8001. and 1,1001. for his Nati& situations. But, betides these, Jun Royal Duke had a Charming residence, to which were at 01101heikettch advantegee as Rangerships of Parks and of lands asvould not be worth less than 'Siiiitiloral., The proposed object of the iv-- - wants the present The • those, the dfleha-ige consonai an additio. respect to jointures, it was primeieff that the Duellist of tia rence should have. a jointure of SOOOl. similar in amount to that of the Deehess of Gloucester--and that the other Duchesses should have jointures settled; on theni of 70001. each. The scope of the alteration was this, to give the Duke of Clarence 50,0001. a year, ' instead of 40,0001.—arid the junior branches 24,0001:1 instead of 36,000/. On this scale, the aggregate ex panse would-be (if the Duke of Kent rnamed) 9,0,0001. per annum. The sums that would fall into the Con solidated Fund amounted to 6Q,0001.—50 that, after covering the 28,0001. there would still be a saving of 81,0001:per annum. The Noble Lord concluded by moving Resolutions that 10,0001'. be granted to his Majesty, for the purpose of providing an establish ment for the Duke of Clarence an his marriage ; that 60001. be granted for the Duke of Kent, &c. Mr. BARCLAY begged the House to recollect, that the state of the country at present was such, that steps were taking for the purpose of raising nearly 10,000,0001. to provide for the services of the year ; that the Prince Regent had thought it neces sary to give up 8000/..a year. of his income to assist in alle viating the distresses of the people; and that most of the Members of the Administration had made a proportionable sacrifice of their income.— Under such circumstances it was that this proposal was brought before the House. He could not by any means admit that the case of the Duke of York was in any degree a fit precedent for the present oc casion. In 1792, the situation of the country was widely different from what it now is ; besides, in the marriage of the Duke of Clarence, he could only see the marriage of one of the younger members of the Royal Family. In the case of the Duke of Camber land, he did not understand that the establishme4 of that Royal Duke had exposed him to any addi tional expense since his maeriage, and therefore he should oppose-the provision for him. But the quev . tion now before the House was on the provision fol. the Duke of Clarence; and, therefore, on ,the prim ciple that his Royal Highness in such a case should be placed exactly on die same footing with the othes younger sons of his Majesty, and therefore he "should decidedly oppose the Resolution now moved. At the same time, u he admitted that some provision was proper on such an occasion, he would not meet it with a negative, but would move an amendment, for the purpose of postponing the consideration of the question. lie should therefore move that the conside ration of this question be postponed to this day week. The CHAIRMAN (Mr. Dresden) said, the Anion& ment of the Honourable Gottingen would trot be regular.. His object would prpD .he obtained* moving, as an Antendment,. )I F7 a 7 • Mr. BARCLAY then nweett, of an Anilaliftedg -64 That the Chairman do now mport progniss; ask leave to sit again." Mr: PARNEL begged the House to consider** the illustrious-Personages for whom the House wee now called upon to make a provision, were cut off from many sources of emolument which were open. to persons in a different situation in society. He was decidedly in favour of the original motion. Mr. PROTHEROE congratulated the House on the effect which the manifestation of the feelings of the House had produced on the original propo sition of the Noble Lord. But he could not help observing, that the Noble Lord seemed still to vindicate his original proposition, and even at one time expressed a doubt whether the House would be disposed to come down to agree to so low a proposition as that which he had now made. He trusted that the tnarriages in contemplation of the illustrious personages in question were founded on feelings which could render their connubial felicity quite independent of the addition of any pecuniary provision from that House. Ile would ask whether his Majesty's Ministers had in this instance acted with honest sincerity towards their illustrious Mas ter, if they represented the acceding to any proposi tion of this kind as a test of the loyalty of the people of England? Certainly not. And yet did it appear as if it were principally on the ground that it was a test of loyalty on the part of the Parliament that the Noble Lord called upon the House to vote for his resolution. He would consider the best sort of loyalty that which consisted in addressing the Sovereign in the language of truth. The House had already given the most satisfactory disappro'val of that old ca lumny, that it was unduly influenced by the Crown, and he hoped that by its conduct in the present case, k Would give a still more satisfactory refutation of it. He could not but observe 9a the unfair allusion whiCh hid been made to the vote of the House on the subject of additional allavrince to • the Duke of Cumberland. He' called' rtitfair, becauSe he be lieved that if ever there wak a 'vine which spoke the voice of the peOple, it was that Bich refused an ad .(ll6(ital alio wao,coo....thet Royal Duke—(hear, Istar.) On whole ,. t h er efore, he eoeld not bring himself to vote in favour of the ' reseintion, Which he 'tinned Die House would decidedly te)ect. " • ' Jr. GURNEY alluded to the practice in- the! thnesof the ,Houses if .York and ..I. f an.usur ' 'when the Princes of the Royal Blood cant:Mita Mirtiagei greit:heire.stis--(e'ltititheYwerei now forced into alliances with weak 'and -poor Get. Ilan - families._ The consequence was these applica.. tions to Parliament for money . .--He should oppose • • the Resolution. Mr. HOME SUMNER beganby referring to the Meeting which had been called out of doors , of th e friends of Ministers. On that occasion, a rminber of Gentlemen had been called together and those so called together were they who, by their *nation hi the Country, and their til.bits of rattOr . e c o n stituents, riattitte supposed to ouLAtltalst e menti of the great body . of the popper nourable Gentleman opposite had &Ought Toosow to, talk of some Members being " cleiked" Into that .. lead been made, nor did he think it well used now, i by hoOking in the Duke of Cern terlaud into a4rant, in prospect of other mai riages—(losid cries ehear, he ra i s s s rXons all sides of the House). He felt ember and at a loss how to act, from the terms of the: motion and the amendment, for he could not pion an amendment on an amendment. Butoif the amendment was carried, he would then move that there be laid before the House an account of the ie ceme derived from different sources. Lord CASTLEREAGIIIrote, but was interrupted opme time by loud cries of " Spoke/ Spoke!" from ~ :Dppasition. The Noble Lord said the House was in a Committee, and, being in a Committee, any Member had a righ t to address the Chairman as of as he thought proper. At any rate, he felt he .:4 a ri o -e-hattr.eallatubn the House to allow him to remove a .misapprehension of the Honourable crea geinan. who spoke list. That Honourable Gentle . a • stated -that the Duke of Clarence derived not to tha4,ooool. a year from his residence and ad uaatages attached to it. Including all possible ad vintages and means of emolument, sheep. walks, &c. it would be more correct to estimate the emoluments sferited from thence at 1001. a year than 30001. As to the other observations of the Honourable Gentle- Stan, he trusted the House would feel the very deli: tate situation in which he (Lord Castlereagh) stood. The Honourable Gentleman said, that the debts of the Duke of Clarence were of such an amount as woold,tender due Proposed vote nugatory and. use less for d p ley it. This was by no ' mans true. , He cou r irZ ed eak positively * as to this, for. be had entered into a minute examination of the affairs of his Royal Highness, and he was enabled to state, positively, that a provision was made for pay ing them off, so that they would soon be completely extinguished, and that after covering the debt there would remain a clear surplus of revenue to that Royal Duke (if the present vote were agreed to) of 25,0001. a year. Mr. COKE (of Norfolk) was againsethe Recolu-, tion. He concurred entirely in the view which the Noble Lord opposite (Lord Lascelles) had taken of the state of the country with relation to this question, and paid many compliments to that Noble Lord. Referring to the observations of the Honourable Gen tleman (Mr. H. Sumner) on the expression " el . :eked" which had been used by an Honourable and Learned Friend of his (Mr. Brougham) be expressed the strongest approbation of his political conduct, arid said that as long as it continued such as it had been, be should have his cordial support. sir WILLIAM CURTIS said, he had opposed ahe first proposal for a provision for the Royal Dikes, on the ground that the scale on which it was then pro posed, was beyond that which the country could at present afford ; but the proposition now made had his eordialatort. Mr. EL N spoke to the following effect i 7 .,;. " Mr. Brogden, I have almost always supported the measures of his Majesty's Ministers, from a firm emi r lviction'of the soundness of the principles on which they have acted ; but I am extremely sorry that they have brought forward this measure—(hear, hear ).-- I I have always, Sir, supported every measure which i I thought conducive to the dignity and honour of the Royal Family ; for I have ever been a warm friend .......atraryounget mentger of lizi"thilroiiie of l3runswick. I have felt this attach --atm eamily, am Mr marriage, to support him- merit' ever since I was capable of forming an opinion itsltt a situation of splendour suitable to his rank. upon any subject , and I fe e l i t still, Sir ; I will sup before he could agree to this, lie mast have an port that family even to the last drop of my blood aolnionce that the sum voted would be applied ex- —I will, Sir—( Laughter, and loud cheering).--- tilinively to the purpose propos nl. If that Royal lam a plain spoken man, Sir, and perhaps though Dim was deeply in debt--to the amount of 70,000/. my language be not so choice or so eloquent as that vies pol.—where was the use of voting to. him which is sometimes heard in this House, I may still dli sliiilnow proposed? Therefore, till he had an be able to express intelligibly that which Ido most assurance that this was not the case, he must con- strongly feel--(Cheering.) It is the duty of every sider, that, to agree to such a proposal, would be Member of the House to attend to the interests of to throw away the ineney—(Hear, hear, hear.)— the Royal Family, but we must attend also to the As to the Duke of Kent, there were many circum- interests of the people, and I cannot consent to hum stances to justify his situation. That illustrious per- bug them—(Laughter, and much cheering, by the Op son, much to his honour, had forborne the splendor position.) If the Honourable Gentlemen on the other to which his rank entitled him, for the purpose of side, who cheer me so loudly, imagine that in what freeing-himself from his debts, and it appeared- that I have said I wish to make my sentiments correspond this judicious line of conduct had been so successful with theirs, they are mistaken. On this occasion, as that in a year or eighteen months his Royal Highness on all others, I act with most perfect independence ; would be freed from debt. When this was the case, and I think Sir, that the principles which guide my if his Royal Highness should marry, nothing could opinion on this subject, as on most others, are widely be more proper than the application for an outfit, different from those of the Hon. Gentlemen on the which would then be applicable to the only purpose other side who just now cheered me—(hear, hear.) for Which Parliament could intend such a grant.— There is no man living who honours his King a n d his As to the Duke of Cambridge, certainly the emolu- Country more than I do. I consider the interests and meets which he derived from his appointments were the honour of the Crown; but I must consider the in much less taan he had supposed them to be, and. terests of the people too. Sir, the distress of the people therefore, he freely admitted that they ought not to is great ; less than it was, thank GOD ! still it is great. be taken into account in the provision to be granted I think that the wise and salutary measures pursued to his Royal Highness. The conduct of that Royal by his Majesty's Government hate been principally Duke had been throughout his whole life so amiable the means of alleviating that distress. In the present and exemplary in all respects, and not least sa in his state of the country, we cannot ventnre to impose having all along avoided incurring debts—that he any additional burdens on the people. If we let could not be named without adding the praises things go on in a quiet way, as they now are, war which his conduct must always command. It was shall, I think, act wisely. But at this time to think said to be the expression of his Royal Father towards of imposing any new burdens for the purpose now in the Duke of Cambridge, that he had not yet'com- view, will be to insult the nation, and will. be most mitted his first fault—an expression which might injurious to the Royal Family. If the Royal Family . still be truly applied to that excellent and illustrious are alive-to the distresseszf the people (and lam person. In referring to the Duke of Cumberland, , sure they are), they will wish for no greater provi the case was indeed widely different—(hear, hear.)— sion than such as I have mentioned . In this view I He wished he could consider the question relative to 'consider the proposition not submitted to the House that Royal Duke as already disposed of by the for- as one of the most injudicious that ever was brought men vote of the House. His Noble Friend (Lord forward. I will dote for some provision to the Duke Castlereagh) had truly said that that vote had been of•Clarencr; but the proposition now before the House given • under very peculiar circumstances. They I shall most decidedly oppose."—( Loud cheering.) were peculiar indeed—'hear, -dear, hear). Whets the; Lord F. OSBORN& said, he was compelled by provision for the Duke of. Cumberland was first pro-, the duty which he owed to his constituents, to vote posed it was agreed to by a Majority of 37 : on the against the amount of the provision mentioned in the next debate the Majority was reduced to 18 : on the -Resolution before the Committee, following it fell to 1 - lu-till at last Members having Sir THOMAS ACLAND thought it was the duty I tome up to town from all parts of the country for the of the House, in deciding on a proposition of this express purpose of testifying their own feelings and kind, tb lay out of the question every consideration 'lose of-their constituents on that subject, It was - but this:--:.What was a fitting establishment foe the finally lost--(heer, hoer). In ail eases of a marriage , Parliament of England to allow to one of the Prinota 'With the Royal Family it was usual td send a Mesa -of the Royal Family, when entering into the state of sage to Parliament on the subject. And why ? Be- 'marriage ? Questions :as to the character of the inci cause the House was thereby afforded an opportnnity ~vidual Prinie had nothing-to do with that on which. of testifying its approbation of the measure. Was- the House had to decide. He would agree too, that there a Message in the Duke of Cumberland's case ?. r the House should lay out of the question, the emolit- There was not. The assent of the Crown, iudeed, ' mom derived by the objg:t of the provision propos aiongiven to die marriage. But no Message to Par- ed front rivate sources, and still more, emoluments raiment- to enable this House by an Address to ex- ,derived fr p ont services to the Public. The simple Pat its approbation, Orby silence, its disapproba- :liamentary ground on which to consider the questa-a 'had_ on that occasion been received. Then the : was, that of granting ' what was necessary to :appeal geoposition for a provision to the R persons 'loyal Duke was those illustrious in the change of their sane oat indireedy. He thought Parliament not tion. :To apply tide so titepeoposaionef the /*We well us id them by the way in which the proposition , Lord, be was'sorry that his views of tad question isi al :14,.. - ,..1 . . • Se.) tc.aiq " . iticen principle of libtralki, be objet tat In. rfeT R Meeti l2 4-..441111111, ledirlwalk 1 1'794.5, the lite Duke of Glonctiikr *deed' nowa.ediglillilhaahlasecsidi " to the am O 94L.ACKPOOL per ILPON 14 'aid phraseology, bad not:talked t present Duke hasiroa *cow of 213,000Lii.., posed. the meeting . t." fang. limn he now m ot, ' and 28,000 i„ fist; .ssitiblad.on that dectitionlatm tour illustrious i ''.. - ' . he•thpufght it e from thailirl ipispoly, dui irnipiissible to apimr,,Wore .tlA.tie. wiili a to eicarcisivielistifiriiipedtahil t mitigated claini: le t IA 'etoitiBWit pain in a trbe astimbrolthe feelialr I fseh arge of his public Chiky.hittrireitiarsioli, - be- • PeoPle*Wiesb nisei, from .0 ehe conscientionsii belieeedthat he was running' tif th4=4. iddidai, we .plaid i,k, in endeavouring to.make the measure strictly! 4Po/had t 4 vie tridk.tharklis onant. with ; public econoipyj - of jembarrassin •_ ' titmah oppositiffilltelsl# e illustrious inctiviitiiel , - s . b,y,calling For so sma 1 4fdali6Cll6olll4' illiii•itbLV addition to their incothe . 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