Star. — London, England, 1819-06-04 00:00:00

j ; btlt laced amoc .;:vices to yavonets a! 1 1,, r % vele p. .vas urnoces . e ro 11:11 slipp •, a ve been s ; a s-'1.1: itc::,l;2, to ti sooli, rt, dice : 3 ...1.7.. day' j,.' ('bath : 0 Var. that of 1•.:It:•:dir) t , ) be h u Ailely h; to go c:•:' clause u• r tha ;. so far a t'v; fare t ornrAir!c to ti I:. Dl woi K ..: -ITC of it oat:. Merc: E::;: W;LS 1: lib !o v.-,ts :,trice s :ruction Iva ti the Colon cnsistent r c..A upon forcer o:c:. peal:'.:, sl; had cc:it:dui had never r( Mr. Al (lobe v..occ rit _ l / 4 /rar . House sltou which they sufficient ex towards het consider the the trade ar abominable 1308 that a these Colon overturn of Bonapaite, lish so:re sc Juntas were edict vas opening the nations of excited ate had eajoye et conseque the return establish al resistance test. Will to be co nsi were in So country wi ;vials for a continued, the more the comae the whole a right,to less coops the attend gross viols Governor. raccas, in who then • cleaned it asylum; t could not privilege c to the Spa was then I debarkatit principles cZeering.) flagrant..t e the Govet e partiality rho certa • the subjer sion to ti is Ferd'aran; churches • having g oppositio 1- Wished t d uas this herons si id :iouth ig that any difficult', enemy ti to cumstan a cool an ough o tile to tl7 t• Sir C g in refer( j. circulati .tating :lame s I io there w r • :sf the ti er had rei United towards la scriptio Ilonout an hist Treaty Trcatic ho would wikh to thi 'the principle intro• ; )r.g the.people locEngland, of selling th e i r the highest bidder, •ind pointing their a , za inst each other's breasts, according as paid for it? But it was said that this Bill es , .try, because the Coinmon Lair enabled rccal his subjects by the writ of ne ereat is was quite ridiculous, Could it be se= ;posed that writs of she e.reat regno should sued out against all British subjects now lancrica? For his own part, he was rather L think that Ministers were to blame•for not nicr adapted so effective a measure as this !cic the evil before it had reached its pre . lle had been informed, that within the Lys, out of a battalion which was disban ,timm, three hundred men had immediately to serve in South America. It appeared it it must always be considered as a breach ity for a State to permit an armed Expe-- e iitted out within its dominions, to serve gainst another. On the whole, therefore, y thought that this Bill ought to be al 'o into a Committee. There was, however, , . uch he thought ought to be m modified— :hat wh:ch related to the detention of yes regarded the evidence to be admitted. -eat principle of the Bill was exactly con the principles of our Law and Constitution. OOUGLAS said, he had hoped that this -oula not have been persevered in, not on its mischievous tendency, or its unconsti aure, but on account of the remonstrances •cantile Interest. It was to be recollected, under British protection that those blos- Eiberty and independence had first been South America, which now promised to o fair a maturity—(llear, hear.) The pO3- • became this country in the present case :t neutrality; and if any latitude of con ;as to be allowed, it ought to be in favour .Inies. It was alisxtrd to supposethat it wit with neutrality for one 'Of the belligerents on the neutral power to pass new laws for ).--e of maintaining the neutrality. On a casino, the Noble Lord opposite had ap support of this measure, to a treaty which inlv been laid upon the table, but which • received the approbation of the House. NRRYATT thought that the moment the Keeded to legislate en thii subject it took a r!) It was therefore proper that the Luld consider the Merits .of the contest in 1- were about to interfere. There had been experience of the policy adopted by Spain ter Colonies; and it was only necessary to 4e conduct of that country with respect to and government of its Colonies, to see how Ile it had been. It was not till the year any degree of political information reached ,ales. At that time, in consequence of the of the Spanish GoveniMent in Europe by :e, the Colonies found it nave's- ary to estab sort of local Government for themselves. :re erected in the various Provinces, and an ,s published by the Council of Regency, :he trade of these countries to the various of the world. But this edict immediately 'le, indignation of the Cadiz merchants, who ,yed the whole monopoly of that trade ; and l eence it was revoked an two months. With n of Ferdinand VIL came an attempt to re all the abuses of the old system; and the of this attempt occasioned the'present con ith respect to the issue of the contest, it was tsidered that all the great resources of Spain louth America-that in the mines of that was her wealth, and in its forests the mate ' a navy; therefore, the longer the contest the more . weak would Spain become, and strong her,Colonies. The war disturbed unerce of these countries, and thereby injured le of Europe. This country, therefore, had „to call upon Spain not to persevere in a hope cogest- The liamourable Member then called minion of the House to what he thought a .elation of neutrality on the part of a British ferner. A vast number of the natives of the Ca n consequence of the oppressions of those :n governed their country, some time ago it wise to-emigrate to Trinidad, expecting an but the Governor, from what motives he )t pretend to say, not only refused them the ;e of landing, but actually forced them back ipanish Main, ortti their own country, which ;a occupied by the Anti-patriotic Party under , who immediately massacred them on their ttion—(Hear,hear.) This was adhering to the les of neutrality with a vengeance—(Loud '.) Some other instances, although none so could be adduced. He was astonished that 'ernment of this country should manifest such all of a sudden to the beloved Ferdinand, rtainly had not densonstrated any kindness to jects of Great Britain. Soon after his acces the Spanish Throne, one bf the first acts of and was, to order general thanksgiving in all les on the retirement of the British troops, for got rid of all the hereti es—(llear, hear.) In ion to all principles of liberty, he then re-esta the Inquisition—(Hear, hear, hear!) And is the man for whom vie were to check the ge spirit of our countrymen in the cause of the Americans? —(Hear. hear.) He was ashamed iy Government should try to involve itself in sties on account of a Monarch who was. an to the interests of mankind. Under such cir ances, all that we ought to observe should be a nd cautious neutrality; and, above all things, ght to abstain from any measure that was hos the true commercial interests of the country. C. ROBINSON rose in support of the Bill. 2rence to a paper which had been industriously tared amongst the Members of that House, g the conduct of this country in the days of I. the Learned Gentleman mentioned, that was a strange misapprehension of the practice times. This country, at the time alluded to, recently recognized the independence of the xi States (Provinces), consequently the po li cy -ds foreign nations was of a very different do ion from what was now thought requisite. The iurable and Learned Gentleman then went into istorical analogy of the times. In 1614, a :y was entered into, comprehending all former :es. We were pow in a similar situation ticaur . . as regarded Treaties. That of 1814wittr and other. Powers had rekrenceveigair by such tD en a ga l g P em rec'edi ents n; in T a re n a a ti tt q;pptki4rent of *tea There are records in our Courts, particulatly . k Court of Admiralty,' founded on the princ . iptes i how. - in dispute. The Treat? of IVA, and that orilgt recognized the connections of amity and comtik*ced between this country and America. sy theseos, there was a complete neutrality between tl)e tWo' Governments, so far as regarded revolutionarylub jects of either country; and in case of any infrac tion of the engagements, by letters of marque or par tial armaments, on the part of the subjects of foreign Powers, the offending persons were liable to all the pains and penalties of pirates. If he (Sir C. Robin son) understood what was the law of nations, that now described was what came under the consideration of such treaties. Neither the municipal nor commercial laws were founded on any other basis. It was in his opinion an insult to the wisdom of Parliament to suf fer individuals to interfere in the disputes of foreign nations with their subjects. Parliament had declared the necessity of a policy diametrically opposite; and notwithstanding the strange sympathy now afloat in the minds of some men, he thought the legality of the measure, corroborated by the wisdom of Parlia ment, ought to be strictly adhered to. The present Bill was only founded on particular laws, already fully. acknowledged by the Legislators of this coun try and by Europe. It was therefore quite a mockery to c onsider whether we should suffer men, sub jects of this country, to go into foreign colonies, and to aid in the revolutionary organization of others. The Treaties now alluded to were all founded on the ,Law of Nations ; and although in those laws, like other enactments, there were exceptions, our engage ments with the Spanish Government ought to be strictly fulfilled. They were founded on the policy and Treaties of our ancestors. In reference to an old Treaty, he was about to read an extract, when he mentioned—".lnpupulo (populum, perhaps) emir..." or some other place—and here the Learned Gentleman rested his authority.—(Laughter and cheering.) Mr. MACDONALD assured the House, that whatever abstract ideas might fall from the last Ho nourable and Learned Gentleman, or . whatever ab stract ideas might be propagated by any other Gen tletrian front Doctors' Commons, he would main tain the doctrines of common sense, and maintain the privilege of delivering his opinions. In the discussion now before the House, the arguments of his Honour able Friends appeared to him in every respect well ' founded. It might be deemed requisite to call back to the recollection cif the House the arguments of both parties; but they were so fresh in the minds of those who heard him, that it was needless for him to enter into any recapitulation. We (the Opposition) contended, that the Government of this Country ought not to manifest any interNence with the sub jects of the King of Spain—(hear, hear). We have shewn that the Attorney-General's Bill is founde, t l on erroneous or ungenerous principles. This memo rable Bill carries a foreign influence on the face of i t —the marks of the suggestion of a Foreign Power. And ought this Country, or a British Parliament, to acknowledge such an influence over our Councils? The present Spanish Monarchy—he meant as no* formed—ought to be the very last to expect any favour from the British Government or the British People. The present Bill ought therefore not to re ceive the support of any Gentleman who felt sincerely for the interest of his country—any Gentleman who felt sincerely for the cause of freedom. No similar measure was ever acted upon by any Administration. Why the present Administration had so long remained silent on the subject,he could not pretend to determine. Long ere now they ought to have taken their ground; but perhaps the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) little ex pected that his own countrymen would ever take so serious a part in the important scenes now carrying on in the New World—( Hear, hear, hear). For eight years, the South American subjects of Fer dinand had been suffered to proceed in their career of emancipation with silent consent, if not with tacit approbation. But all of a sudden, since the inter ference of the Duke of Wellington had failed, we had shewn a new front, a very different aspect, to the dearly beloved Ferdinand. When the parties were proceeding with all the fury of the " bellues! belluns ad internecionem r then the Noble Lord (Castle reagh) and kis colleagues enter the lists, the grand arena, to attempt to give the death blow to infant li berty!--(Near, hear.) —But he hoped these efforts would be too late ; and that the South Americans, now gloriously struggling for their dearest rights, would be able to take an attitude, an invincible po sition, of defiance to every attempt in favour of tyranny'!—(Hear.)—lt was strange, indeed, that a Government founded on and supported by principles of liberty, should interpose its authority to prevent the deadly blow aimed at the last efforts of expiring tyranny—(Loud cheers.) —A British House of Com mons is bound to resist, with the utmost indignation, every endeavour to regulate or form our laws and policy by the unwarrantable interference of a foreign injunction. As the present Administration appear to act by the dictates of Spain, all those who love their country would repel the attempt with the obloquy which it deserved. The references made to the 9th and 29th of Geo. H. formed no analogy to the present case ; it was therefore idle and frivolous to mention them, and it was ridiculous to refer to them with that gravity and wisdom which some Gentlemen assumed. The Spanish Monarch might *now be said to be at war with his subjects on account of the dying embers of bigotry and superstition. The Head of that Mw narchy, which - had so long held a conspicuous part in the eyes of Europe, little thought that its manifold sins and monstrous iniquities, would on some future day be visited on his descendants. The Members . that great House never fbresaw that the horrors Of conquest in South America, would revert upon the* succesess with tenfold fury. The dreadful and abo minable crimes of this proud and imperious Castilian Monarchy are now about to be revenged by the South Americans, the heirs of the unhappy people who were doomed to die under the sword or the dagger of the invader !—(Hear, hear.) But of all the auxi liaries which the beloved Ferdinand would' have thought of, the Honourable Member could not for a moment have believed that Ministers of the House of Hanover would have been permitted to come for ward to occupy such a disgraceful situation—(Hear.) Re hoped, . hmirever, that the vote of this night would prove to Spain 'and to Europe, that a British , Muse of Common; - were not to be deluded into, ilia'd dis gr-aced oonditiono-41/ear, heir, bat Whence comes it that a at nation, gl o wing with ++ t h dre lo r .re4taruveicishinitsalgelowetylibTlitendfieinidgyitssheoulf toid scuocnhdca detestable cause ? The people were not to blame, but their Government. The people wished well to the cause of their fellow-men in South America, but the Government acted upon opinions diametrically op posite. The Noble Lord (Castlereagh) was not con tented with the free exercise of his political genius in this country, but he must forsooth go to another he misphere to extend his fame !—(Hear, hear.) But the Noble Lord ought to know; that national anti pathies, which he was now endeavouring to en.arge '— , :when once engendered, might requite age s to re move. He implored the House not to di s grace their Statute books by suffering such a Bill to pass into a law. Why should we volunteer our ser vi ces in the w cause of an Ally, who had transferred to our danger, if not ruin, a vast and an important territory (the Floridas ?) Such an aggrandizement of power by so formidable a rival, exposed our West India Colonies to the encroachment or invasion of an enemy. It is 'said that he assigned those territories to another Power, because he was incapable of preserving them himself. Are we therefore to act so supinely as to sit in silence and see our Colonies endangered ? If Ferdinand has lost the power. of protecting, he has not lost the inclination of oppressing his subjects. He again implored the House to pause before' it sane- Ironed such a law. He would by no means compro 'mise the character of the nation, the moral feeling of the people, in order to support the political conduct of the Noble Lord. Every Government rests on po pr,lar opinion ; and although the generous and ardent 'feelings of his fellow-subjects might for some time suffer by the bold but unwarrantable conduct of the Noble Lord, yet the good sense of the community it large would always command our national respect, in defiance' of actravagant or capricious polities.— (Loud cheering.) . Lord CASTLEREAGH contended that the Bill was merely intarided to act prospectively and not re trospectively, In almost 'all the argttments which had been advanced against it, Gentlemen had taken false grounds.' They ought to Wok at the character of the offence. The Government could not suffer it self to be implicated in the misconduct of certain in dividuals. This country could not interfere with the subjects of foreign nations at war with the Sovereign authority. It was true, when on our own• shores we not only receive agents or emissaries from the cclun tries alluded to, but actually equipped formidable armaments, that Government should interpose its authority. The adventurers of this country not only sent out regiments, well organized, for the service of the South Americans, but ships of War have also pro ceeded thither. With 'the subjects of some foreign powers it has been the practice to let out for hire, troops ; this was no violation of the La t w of Nations, (because such praitices had been recognized , by the different powers. But the Noble Lord denied that it bid ever been the practice of this country to let troops l out For hire, and therefore such an assumption of power by the individuals now offending was a direct violation of the Law of Nations. With all the 010- queue of the Hon. Member whO had just sat dolig, and his Lordship maintained that his spe . ch contained More declamation than argument—he wished to know if the conduct of the intiividuals now alluded to was not a sufficient cause for war on the part of Spain ? If, for instance, we folind that Spain was fitting out , an armament from Corunna against our West India Colonies—and by such individuals as now referred' to—would not that fie a sufficient cause for war on the part of England ? What' sort of a character would the Government of this country be supposed to have in the eyes of Europe,.if it suffered such ad venturers to continue their unwarrantablt courses ? If we remained any longer with indiffetence, we would compromise our character, not only as a Go vernment, but as a Nation—(flear,hear,hear). There were a set of mercantile adventurers in this country, who, forgetful of the true character of -British Mer chants, became Political Agents, in expectation of wonderful commercial advantages. He should be ashamed to allow out. national character to suffer by any such sin 2; coinpariion. So much for the law of nations, ding' to this new analogy ! Ile be stowed praise on his Honourable and Learned Friend (Sir C. Robinson) •for the explanations and definitions which be had entered into for the information of the House. The present Bill was founded on principles of justice between Belligerent Powers. With regard to all the laws which related to our fellow subjects abroad, the British Government had always acted with every degree of lenity and mercy. But so far as regarded the interference of British subjects with the interests of foreign nations in alliance with us, it was absolutely necessary to adhere to the strictest rules of neutrality ; and therefore the interference of the indi viduals new mentioned was contrary to the law-of na tions, and contrary to the policy of the British Goaern ment.What sort of a neutrality is that which Gentlemen desired us to maintain by leavingthisiaw as we found it? If the law be defective, it was necessary to amend it. NO circumstance so strongly calls for the interfe. rence of Parliament as that now under discussion, To suffer any longer such 'aggressions; by which the character of the Government and that of the nation were implicated, would be acting unbecomingly and indecorously. So far as regarded the policy of na tions, we' could not repel the claims of Spain. It was our declared determination, on principles of neu trality, not to shew favour to one belligerent Power more than to another. The policy with Spain, in the lyear 1808 or 1809, *hen the latter Power was at war, was directed by different principles. But'whatever that policy was, it did not preclude us from the re cognition of former treaties. It was a respect due to the House to call Gentlemen to a sense of their duty by the statement of facts. The treaty of 1797 was no bar to our interference on the present occasion.— In reference to an Hon. Member on the second bench (hlr.'Marryatt) the Noble Lord not only contradicted several of his arguments, but gave the most positive contradiction to his statement regarding the South 'American Emigrants at Trinidad. His Lordship read an extract from an official Paper, by which it appeared that there was no ground for the representation, So far frorrrforcing them beat° theivmstive:place they a w n h d e i r n e g, hi s were admitted to a landing. The Chief Of tricTri wLotrerdinshaipssa::sedute) dwthitheoutHottr,rii•cht769o4 grants, however, with some of his followeiwretursia • • ••.41,,1, ~~'- d,,,.,....'+~. I ro the Spanish Maiii,.whiie hii wifeand childreore. mained at Thiiid2d; anti the whole-number that ha* been landed at the latter place, amounted t 0.3828. So far as regarded the great commercial advantages ! expected by the mercantile adventurers, who by the acts of their political or warlike agents had compro mised the character of a• British Merchant, the Noble Lord assured them . and the country that wherever their influence had extended, commerce had consi derably diminished. A spirit of jealousy had arisen, and the confusion which fellowed. had Leen produc tive of many calamities, especially where there was a commixture of the commercial with the miThlsty character. Merchants, however, must sot interfere in a.military, line, tp . involve the Government. By the, 4 treety between this country and -Spain, we never promised% interfere with arms to effect the redac tion of the South Americans. All that we pre mised was the interposition of our good offices, or mediation, between Spain and her colonies.-i- In contradiction of the thanksgiving said to have been given . in the churches for the retirement alt all heretics from Spain (meaning the British army), the Noble Lord assured the Houle that the alliance be tween the two countries had been renewed through the medium of Sir Henry Wellesley ; and that the King of Spain was aaxious to prove to England and to Europe, that he wished to put an end to any fa ' mily alliance or any family compact (the. Bourbons which had excited so much Jealousy on the part of this country. The common law was ineffectual in this case. It could not prevent the departure of those large transpotts now lying in the River, in a com plete state of war equipment, for South America.— A's to North America, the Act passed by that coun try in 1818 had no connexion,wbotover , with the C•PC.• sion of the 11oridas by Spain. "egociations were then carried on rather angrily between the two na tions; yet the American Government thought proper, under such circumstances, to put an end to the prac tices which this Bill'•was intended to repress.. 'After every other country had established its neutrality, he trusted that England would not be the only one that should cease to respect the faith of treaties. If Mi nisters applied to Parliament for extraordinary and sanguinary powets, instead of those necessary to give effect to the common law, then, indeed, might they meet with a repulse; but be trusted the House would approve of the piestat mode of enabling the Crowd to maintain a strict neutrality, Mr. MARRYATT declared, that before this night he had never known that the Governor of she Island of Trinidad ha 4 transmitted an Answer to the Colo nial Department, to the charge made ligainst him of cruelty to the unfortunate people *bb-had fled to that Island for protection—( Leet cries of Hear, hear ! from the Opposition Bend). That =ewer, however, did not satisfy so miach•Of the charge as declared that several persons had been driven from the Island, and were massacred the Main-440w, hear). It merely stated that-se lagoons hedtheett , admitted. Mr.. GOULBIJRN said, • that in the year iindik it • complaint had been made to the Government hy the - Honourable Member (Mr. Marryatt), and. several other Gentlemen ; in conseuence, an inquiry .had been instituted by the Government, anti the isuk showed that no persons had been refused id4fitam:e —o_leardlaiL L _r - ecor). Mr. MART IN rose amidst loud and repeateietlea of Question ! Withdraw !—the Honourable Main).* expressed a wish that any of those who so leirdly .called " Question !" would identify bjmself to hi .view. —( Loud laughter, and cries of Order ! ) ' , • , The SPEAK ER—. The Ilonourable Member Matt be aware that such is not the language idw4igh he Ought to notice any occurrence in this liottse.7 . " Mr. MARTIN—"I beg ten thousand pardona of (he House, but all I with to say is, that I would be ead any Member' who So loudly cried ' 'Qua:aid'', would manifest himself to your view, and I am sure, Sir, you would have expressed your dhpleasure of such conduce—Wear, Aiar.)The Hon. Member then proceeded to make sdme observations in favour of the measure, and expressed his confident belief that if Mr. Fox were living, he would have voted for a% Bill—The House divided—For the Amendment, 142 —A nst it, I'ss—Majority for Ministers only 13. .en then hers were announced, the House ro soan with ' e cheers of the Opposition. Mr. it 4 TIE 4 • Y wished to know of the Noble Lord, if he meant to persevere in the present Bill—(Hear, hear)—what day he would fix tor going into the COma mittee ?—(Loud cheers). Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that whenever . the queition came again before tbe lions; he should not be afraid of oil! result. .. •' Mr. 11ERNEt-' --Will the Noble Lord b, the goodness to state what day he will go into the Cong. mitmea—(LOrd cheers). Lord CASTLEREAGH referred to the Attorney. General for an answer to that question 7 -(ffear, hear). The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, Oat he should prdpose next Thursday to go into the Committee. - Mr. TIERNEY asked why so distant se day was fixed ?—(Heor, hear, hear), The CHANCELLOR of the E.XCII 0 was 41.10, . Thing, when .. • . . • Mr. TIERNEY observed, that he het e l i pUt a. Ines tion to the Noble . Lord, - i vho had racerr • him to the Attorney-General ; and when that Learned Gentle. man was about to speak,up,started the Chancellor of ( t ta he us Ex kt ch er eq )4 tter t ' b take the words out of his month— , ~. • • J. 44.4. -A4TLEREAGH stated , am an earlier 4 day ' ' :Wadi Itive.liden axed %Kat, as Qa Mon. d a y hi s . .. it ht lioupprabic Weed ,wour ii a l ta into the detail of , his r A Re 50110.41.,. • :,, 1.1 y was, he belived, aso fully . " V,liiod! jßck,.. .04 11 Wid4F would mani get. be dedicated to the.l3 . ,Thpradarursis,therefore the.first clear day that presenteditself. Y. • ~0 .. Mr. Alderman WAITMAN tejOired t t i bek a 'urea sure of this importanceshoildatoi be pressed toe ra pidly, as he knew for teitain that Petitions wouid be sent against it from ail pants ef the country. • ' The Bill was then read a•second time, deal ordered to te 'cogunitted next Tliiitivray. ' .s.r.vanrobr. 1 , elkiTtotr. •Mr. IDANNING rose to pre s ent a Petition; which he had received from the Merchants, Ship Owners, gild tradera :of Micky of Liettrpool, praying that the oreieni..;ißill in - ight-atot• pass into a liw--4Loud and I mparted cirearsThey objected. to the measure on the ground that a highly beneficial- trade• was now carried on with the Patriots of South America, which they feared would be interrupted and thrown into the . :+s t I , 4 t l 4 ' I 1 \ I 1 ' I , f t ' r . r i 4 ri V ,1 1 1. 1 ' 0 i 1 i - I 4 0 i l • I