Star. — London, England, 1801-03-24 00:00:00

I PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS. Y.OUSE 0? LOADS, MOYDAY, MARCH 23. The Earl of presented a Petition from the Debtor.. in the prifon of the Four Courts in Dublin, which was ~ rkei ea to oa the Table. Lord DARNLEY fuid, in confequence of what had paired in the courfe of the debate on the mo tion lie had the honour to ilibroit to the Houfe on the State ct the Nation, on Friday Lift, he thould feel h;tnielf called upon, if it thould not be taken up by Tome other Noble Lord, fpeedily to trouble their Lcrdlhips with a Motion in a different fhape. Many Noble Lords, he faid, who had voted againft his Motion, admitted the necellity of Come fpeciflc meal - are, and objerted only to the wide Held he had taken. One Noble Marquis, he laid, remarkable fir his attachment to the late Admini ftration, had evprefid his difapprobation of the manner in v..hich the Hon. Members who compo. fed it had quitted their fituations. He therefore hoped and truiled the meafure he lhould next have the honour to propule (if he was not prevented by the bufmcfs being taken up by ionic other Noble Lord) would meet the concurrence of their Lord !hips. Lord Hot LA WO sliced if it was the intention of his Isilajeity's Ministers to lay before the Houfe the Papers relative to the rupture with Ruflia. Lord HOBART laid, he did expert the Houfe would receive a communication on the fubjeift. The Printer and Publifher of a Morning Paper were called to the Bar, .to anfwer for a mis.ftate ment in that paper of a con verfation which palled in the Houfe on Friday ; and alto for the infertion of an alledged libel, intitled Chriftianus, in its pub lication of Saturday. Strangers were as ufual ex cluded upon the occafion. The refult, however, was, they were reprimanded, and ordered to be difcharged on paying the fines in one of the cafes. IRISH MARTIAL LAW SILL. On the third reading of the Ira Martial Law Bill, The Earl of RADNOR, noticing the precipitancy with which a Bill of this great importance was hur ried on, moved the. reading of the Banding orders on the regulation of the refpeaive Rages of Bilk, and difapproved of the proceeding of this as a cau tiop for the future. Earl Mot RA,Earl TITZWILLIAM, and Lord Hot.- LAND, expreffed their difapprobation, and Paid, they were not fufficicntly apprized of fuch a proceeding ; fo little, that they did not expea itfrom what was laid on the fubjea laft Friday night : in reply to which, the LORD CHANCELLOR urged, that the ne cerfity of the cafe juftified the proceeding, and laid, that the Bill was open on the third reading to all ob jeaions their Lordthips were difpofed to make to it. Lord Firzwi attars declared his difapprobation of the Bill. Ile laid, " was a Bill which deprived filch a large portion of his Majefty's fubjeas of the bleffings of the Britfth Conßitution,. to be pallid through that Hottfe, without one document being produced to their Lordthips to thew the necellity of the meafure ?" He Paid, in the prefent Rite of Ireland, when the Judges were enabled to go their regular circuits without moleftation, fuch a Bill could not be necellary. In this country, if a per fon was accufed of High Treafon, he had Counfel affigned him, and a lift of the witneffes againft him, and the jurors by whom he was to be tried. He confidered, he raid, the greateft misfortune th::t could befall any man was to be deprived of a trial by his Peers. The Earl of WEST?4ORELAND raid, that fuch was the Rate of Ireland, that Noble Lords (hould ra. ther look for a communication from the Crown, why fuch a law thould not continue, than look for rearms why it (honk! be revi% Earl of CAERNARVON took up very warmly this laft expreffion of the Noble Earl. He afked if an AR, the ffighteft word of which thLald make a freeman thudder, was to be continued as long as it fliould be the plea tiro of the Crown The Earl of WESTKoRLLAND explained. Earl Moine Rated what had pal Ted on Friday night. He afterwards faid he coincided entirely in opinion which his Noble Friend (Lord Fitzwil liam) that fume information Should have been pre vioutly laid before the Houle. Lord CLARE raid, before he (hould trouble the Moore with any remarks on the necernty of the eneafure aow under its confideration, he fhould move, that the report of the confeflions of the Rebels examined before the Committee of the frith 'Houk of Peers, which was laid before his Majelly, and which his Majefty had been gracioully pleafed to lay before their Lnrd(hips, Should he read. The Report was accordnigly read, which occu pied the Houle a confiderahle time; after which, Lord CLARF laid, with fuch documents as there will the Noble Earl (Fitzwilliam), fay the Houfe is without any proofs to proceed upon ? He then allured the Houle (and no man could be prefumed to know the Rate of Ireland better than liimfelf), that this was the meafure that did, and this was the meafiire alone that could rave Ireland, and prevent its difunion from Great 13ritain. The Noble Lord then entered into a detail of the Rebel lion ; he told the Noble Earl (Fitzwilliam) that at the very time that flattering loyal addreffes were preenting to himfelf, when - his Lordfhip was the chief Co'rernor of that difiraaed country, the Very peraints who prefented them were many of them concerting the reparation of the two king doms, and one of the perfons was ..:Wally one of the frith Dire Cory. He could tell their Lordlhips loch tales la would make them fliudder. This Bill, he Paid, originated in confequence of Theo bold Wolfe Tone having being taken in arms on board a French frigate, which formed a part of the expedition that failed from Bieß for the invafion of Ireland. Tone, lie faid, bad beer( tried by Martial Law, was loom! guilty, and ordered for execution ; but (nine friroid of his applied to the Court of King's Deitch for a writ of Habeh Cor pus, a Military Tribunal not having power to try a criminal whilfl that Court was titting—the granted a Habeas Corpus, by which mean-. Tore obtained a fi.fpenfinn tithe lenience of the Court Marcia!, and found means to cut his throat of pritun before could be broughta time'; • 'to trial. But he begged fo affure Noble Lords, there were many cauleswhich called loudly for the palling of this Bill.—Jurors could not be fOund hardy enough to do juftice to their confcience and to their country; they preferred perjuring themfelves; to the almoft certainty of allltflination. It; as the Noble Lord had oblerved, lifts of ju ; rors and witneffes were to be given to the Rebels of Ireland, as in cafes of High Treafon in this country, fourteen days pretiLts to trial, nine tenths of both witnciles and jurors would not be in exiftence on the day of trial. Helamented much as any Nobic Lord in that Hours: ; nay he had cattle, he laid, to lament more than a great ma jority of their Lordthips, the necefilty of the pre fent meaftire, becaufe he could Oct go to his own houle in falcty : lie could not walk round his cwn farm, or go to his bed, without fire-arms to pro tekt hinifall and his family—nor did he know at what rumens, if he was not thus guarded, he might fee hisile and children butchered before his eyes, and he himfelf only fpared to witnefs the bloody fcene. When he left his houfe—when he moved from one fpot to another—his fervant reached him his fire-arms as regularly as he reach 'ed him his hat. if Noble Lords judged of Ire land by any fort of comparifon with this country, he was Lorry to fay the comparifon could not in any relpeel hold good. The more he law of the happinefs of thole who lived under the Britith Conditution, the more he bewailed the fate of his unhappy country. If in Ireland, as in Eng land, the military were to quit a.town on the ap proach of the Judges, the laws could not be execut ed. A Noble Lord had ailed, whether the Judges had not regularly gone the circuits for two years and a half? lie could anfwer, that in general they had done fo, but they had always been pro teded by a ftrong efcort, and that two Learned Judges goinsg to hold the alli zes in a diftant coun ty, had been attacked by the rebels not many miles from the capital. They were not murdered to be Pure, but they owed their fafety merely to the rebels having negle.9ed their uftial precaution. Their fervants not being bribed, and the poll-boys turning quick about, they efcaped from the fnare Of the laft journey of the Attorney General, it had been laid truly, though ludicroutly, that Mr. Attorney all the time looked pale, that the jurors perjured themfelves, that the affatlins efcaped, and that the witnelles were affaffinated. They can try for common robberies and mifdemeanours, but they dare not try rebels; and, if they dare do fo, they could not, as he had before Rated, get Jurymen to do juftice. He allured the Houk, that the fame or gan; zedfyftem ofrebellion Rill exilic:l, that was plan ned in the year 1792, and it wanted but an opportu nity again to burst forth with frefh vigour. Until within the hall eighteen months the county in which he refided (Limerick) was perfectly tranquil, but fuch was the fyllem of organization with which things were carried on,that all of a fudden the whole county was ina Rate of rebellion. The firft altofrio lence was committed under his own roof. One of his fervants was put to death with circumftances the molt !hocking to humanity, merely becaufe he was an Englifhman ; and to thew the extreme bar. barifm at which the Iri(h people had arrived, the principal affallin was a man who had been his fer vant and his father's fervant for upwards of thirty years, and had been uniformly treated by both of them with the greatell poffible kindnefs: The wretch had ftolen arms from his houfe, and diliri buted them among the rebels. When he was led to execution, he confefred to the Prieß who at tended him, a There were five and twenty Gentle men in the county denounced (as they termed it) for afraflination, amongll whom I was onc—l was to be one of the laft in this tragedy, but fortunately the plot was difcovered." He (Lord Clare) was the only perfon who gave employment and bread to the poor in that neighbotirhood, and without him they mutt be reduced to the greateft wretched nefs. He mentioned this to Ibew that they were not animated by any thing refembling a rational motive, but were (purred on merely by a third for blood. His Lordfhip, in (peaking of Marquis Cornwallis, obferved, that he poll - eared an undaunted cou rage, with the mildeft—the fofteft nature." The noble Marquis,he laid," never would refort to ads of violence but under the molt preffing necefllty— he never permitted an individual to Infer without the molt minute inveftigation of his cafe—he fpends not lefs than four hours every day in examining the minutes of Courts Martial. Soon. after the' noble Marquis took upon himfelf the chief command in Ireland, he releafed many rebels from prifons, and many others lie granted a pardon to, on giving up their arms. Some of thofe were afterwards again taken up, and fent abroad ; but there are many of them with the fame rebellious fpirit kill in the coun try ; and many, I believe, found their way to this country. Should Gentlemen have an inclination to fee what was going forward in my unhappy coun try, I will undertalte to provide half a dozen with a villa, where they (hall, if they pleafe, remain t or i 8 months; they-will then have an opportuni ty of judging with more accuracy of the [late of Ireland. If the Noble Earl (Fitzwilltam) thinks the hate of things has been tnifreprefented, he has only to go to hi; own ellate in the county of Wick low ; he will there fee the change the face of the country bears in coafequence of the unhappy re bellion. A Noble Lord near me, and a near neighbour of the Noble Earl's, can inform him what afpedt his own eflate wears. I cannot help thinking, my Lords, that Government is much indebted to the perfons who concluded the affairs of Ireland at the molt critical period of its hiftory :* had it not been for their vigilance, that country would at this moment either be feparated from England, or carrying on an open and expenfive war. I would remind Noble Lords, That there is not one fentence in the whole of the Report which they have jitit heard read, that the Gi.vernment of Ireland was not in poffellion of, long before it was difclided hr the rebels in the (hape it (lands at pre fent." arts a great variety of other oblervat ions, the Nolde I.ord concluded by adverting to tlie re port that lie .vas an advocate of torture. The i; ' , iodation for , 11:it report he laid he recolletled el!, and lhotild Rate to the Honk. A blackfraitlt had been apprehended, who, there was the Preat‘ft I1,1" -- - reafon to Lelieve, had been engaged in framing pike head , . After various means being tried, in vain, to free him to confefs where he had con ceaicd them, Le was placed upon the piquet. There he had not remained half-a-minute when he told where about might be found, and there they were found a-cordini;ly. In anfwer to what had fallen from a Noble Lord oppotite (Earl Moira), he had laid it lliould maturely confidered whe ther fi,cictv would fuffer ni ill from the miii.der of two or thice hundred loyal and well difpofed men, whir!i seas pronably thus ',revolted, or from a rebel hiackiniith being placed half-a-minute on the pi quet ? What he had faid then he now repeated, and if there were any who, regardlefs of the two or three hundred loyal and well difpof:d inhabi tants, pitied only the rebel blacklmith, he did :tut envy them their . feelings. Lord Frrzwituast fiid, that no proof was given of any confp:racy having exiled in Ireland at the time when he was at the head of the Go vernment in that country. Lord Ceaas laid, he could bring the nutter to his Lordfhip's recollenion ; but did not feel him fell at liberty to do fo then. , Lord Moi RA laid, be wiflL:ti, if pogible, to draw a veil over every tranfatlion which took place in Ireland, the recital of which could only fill the mind of every perfiat with ditgult. But he mull repeat the affertinqs he had formerly made, in order to comet miticprefentation. Hc had noted that torture had been applied to perfons in Ire land to make them confefs their crimes, and ac- Icufe their neighbours: this was a pradice which he reprobated as ufeicfs and unjuft ; and as a proof of that affertion, there was one man who had been piqueted, and fubjeifted to various other tor tures, in order to force a confellion from him, and after all he did not make a true confeffion. If the hate of Ireland was fuch as their Lordfhips had jun heard from the noble Earl, would any man fay thit it was not owing to fome mitinanagement of the Government ? It was obferved by Plato, that a general 'edition exiling in a State, was pre , fumptive evidence that it had been caufed by the conduel of the Government. If Ireland was in fuch a fituation as the noble and learned Lord re prefented it to be in, the Bill then before the Honk could not correft the evils that country laboured under. Were not the people of Ireland human creatures, and hcw was it pollible to bring them to a fenfe of humanity except by mild treattneat ? by infpiring them with a fenfe of fecurity, which could not be done by eftablithing a law like the prefent, which could not even be called martial law ; but it was filch a law as hung like a fcourge over men's heads, and while they continued under its terrors, they could enjoy 'lto fecurity, poffefs neither mildncfs or humanity ; nor ever be come peaceable or good fubjeas. As to the com binations entered into to murder people, he minted to know whether the noble Lord meant to (late that they were general or not ?—(Lord Clare an twovd Feneral).-,“ Then," fail Lord Moira, " this Bill is inadequate to the purpofc of prevent ing raaffacres." In fuch cafe nothing would do but military law proclaimed all over Ireland. Therefore one great objection to the Bill was, that of its limiting the operation of martial law. Ano ther objeftion was, that of its attempting to lega lize that which could not be reduced to law. If it fhould appear that a real neceffity did exift for fuppreffing rebellion and murder in Ireland, the bell way would be to invert the Lord Lieutenant with full powers to all as he lhould think proper, but with fuch a refponlibility attached to him that he fhould afterwards throw himfelf on the country, which fhould judge of hi: concha. He was Pure there was no noble Lord in that Hoare who would Ibrink from fuch a duty, or fuch a rerponfibility. But this Bill, oncepaffed into a law, would re move all refponfibility from the Viceroy, who would not be obliged to give the motives for his condua. This Bill infliCted a deep wound on the Britifh Conflitution, and nobody could doubt hut that another Ali of the kind would be paired for England. He would not pledge hind& to oppofe this Bill ; but he heard nothing Bated as yet to convince him of its neceffity, and until he did, he fhould continue to oppufe it. Lord MULORATI wondered that, after hearing the eloquent fpeech of the noble and learned Lord (Clare), any man could doubt the neceflity of the meafure which the noble Lord who (poke lull pro pored to fubflitute in its Read. This was a legal rellraint againfl the improper exercife of power, the other would permit the Viceroy to do what ever he pleafed. Lord HOLLAND raid, that during the fhnrt time he had a feat in that Houfe, he never oppofed any Bill againft which he had fuch infuperable objec tions as the preterit. It was a complete contra diCtion to the affertions of thofe who had fupport ed the Union ; who had raid that the Union would deltroy all local prejudices, &c. It had alto been raid, in fupport of the Union, that the natives of Ireland were unfit judges of what was bell for that country; but now that the Union was paired, they were to be confideted as the bell judges of every eircumflance relating to Ireland. He de- nied that there was any evidence before the Houfe to ground this meafure upon ;_ the papers that had been read, and which Rated the niftence of rebel lious praCtices three years ago in Ireland, were no evidence of loch neceffity. As well might the ac count of the rebellion in Scotland be given as a round for eftablifhing military law in Scotland. he fpeech made by Lord Cornwallis to the Par liament in January *Soo, wherein he congratu lated both Houfes on the termination of thi_ rebel. lion, and on all tendency towards infurreftion be ing removed ; proved that no pound tufted at that time for fuch a Bill as this; and the only ground that could now be properly Hated, was that of an application made left year by Lord Cornwallis. The Noble and Learned Lord in his fpeech had frequently ufed the word Democracy, by which he probably meant the mats of the Pen ' pie. This opinion was certainly not to be direttly followed in every fepsinte AR of the Legiflature ; bit , this be would maintain, that all Government mull be calculated for their good; and if it was not, it could not be a good Government. He could not believe that the People of Ireland wen' a fit of Barbarians ; and if they were, Etc thone:t that no fociety fhould there exift. He was not a,: quainted with the mats of the People of tha• country, but he knew many Gentlemen belongin j , to it, and there were none whofe talents, cot.- rage, and amiable qualities he more refpeaed.— He would not fay that he doubted the fads related by the Noble and Learned Lord ; but he mull fay, that that was not the fort of evidence on which th e Hook ought CO proceed. Perlial.s upon a full I.iveltigation, that horrible as theft lads were, they had proceeded from motives different from what Noble Lords now fuppofed. If, howebc : . fads were listed in a Men age from the Clown, the Minister would be refponfible, if they after wards turned out to be falfe. But no refponlibili ty attached to the fpecies of evidence now given. As to the horrors in Ireland having been commit ted merely from a love of blood, he believed that men were capable of being brought to inch a fa vage and barbarous Rate of mind; and that Whi one of his principal grounds for oppoling the L... 1. The poffibility of the human mind being fo de praved, was with him a reafon for not giving to in dividuals fuch a power as the Bill would invert them with. This Bill might afford protection to great properties ; but it would be the deftrudiou of little properties, as mull appear obvious to every man who knew the nature of a military difpofition, which was the worn of all bad Governments:— Admitting the necellity for this Bill to be ever fo great, he would refill it on the broad principles of moral juftice. The Earl of LIMERICK fupported the Bill as abfolutely necelTary for the prefervation of Ire land. He contended, that no perfons could have a knowledge of the Rate of Ireland, or tell what was fit for it but thofe who had gaffed a great part of their time in the country. Thofe Englitla Meru. hers of Parliament who oppofed the meafure; of coercion in that country, were ignorant of its fl tuation. From whence did they receive their in. formation? From traitors, who had come over from that country, and deCeived themwith fare re. prefentations, fo as to induce them to go and give evidence in their favour on their trials. The other defcription of perfons from whom they received their information could not be called traitros, he cattle they never declared themfelves openly, but flunk away during the hour of danger. waiting to fee what fide would be the flronger ; and after the conteft was decided, they made their appear. ance and began to accufe thole loyal Gentlemen and Yeomen who had bravely fought in the field and faved their country. The (laments of loch perfons were now to be taken as authority againk the evidence of numbers of Noblemen and Gen tlemen from Ireland, who had been !witneffts of fuch horrors as this Bill was intended to prevent. Lord CARLETON fpoke thorny in fupport of the neeeffity of the meafure, and declared that nothiag but a conviction that it was elfentially reqoifite for the fafety of Ireland could have induced him to give it fupport. The prefent Rate of the coun try, however, from all the information of which he was, in poireffion,. he was convinced was filch, that the municipal law was altogether inadequate to the fup,preffion of diforder, or the protection of loyalty, and that the Judges were unable to apply this law to the various crimes which had fprung out of the rebellion. No one, he believed, would be apt to fufped him of preferring the dicilions of a military mbunal to thofe of the municipal law, but believing that the latter were not calculated fur the diftraded Rate of the country, he was wil ling.for a short time to r elinquifh their advantages to give up a part to fi ve the whole. The Bill hut not been originally adopted or continued without a full perfualion of its tweak'', and he had rea fon to think this neciffity was not let's at prefent, for according to the lateß accounts which had reached him from Ireland, he believed that Ire land was lefs tranquil at this moment than it had been a year ago. He adverted to the circus:.- fiance that the Bill was introduced into the other Houle of Parliament with the exprefs approbation of the prefent Lord Lieutenant, whole integrity none had ever dared to difpute ; whole feelings of humanity all allowed, and who would not, with out a ftroag conviction of the nceeffity of the mea fure, recommend a meafure which added fo much to his refponfibility. This recommend::. tion he drew in aid of the fads which had been adduced in fupport of the meafure, and concluded by giving his decided fupport to the meafure. The Larl of Kissout profeffed his unalterable attachment to the conflitution, and his unwilling. nefs to agree to any meafure which fo ftrongly trenched on its fpirit and privileges. From the fads which had been Rated, however, refpeeting the Rate of Ireland, he had no doubt of the ne ceffity of the meafure, and exprelled his craft that inftead of deftroying it would be the means of far ing the Conflitution. He alluded to the meafure which it had been thought neceffary to adopt by a Whig adminiftration in thedifirming of the High- . Landers in Scotland after the Union ; and conten ded that as this meafure bad been prodildive of no bad confequences, but, on the contrary, hail been the means of giving fuller effect to the bid fings of the Conftitution, Co he trusted this ma lure, though in the mean time violent, would be the means of relloring peace and happinefs to Ire land. Lord Gattavuta erpread I,is trull that a mei fure of this nature would never be adopted by Britith Parliament without the fulleft conlideratiot., and the fironga proofs of its neceflity. He was convinced that fufficient proofs had now been ad ' duced to prove that it was effential to the prefer ration of the lives and property of the loyal in habitants of Ireland. In reply to an argument ufed by a Noble Lord, that the defcription of the horrors of the rebellion' three years ago, which was long fincc wholly put down he argued, that the reports laid on the table fullicicntly pointed out the fallacy of fuch an argunient. From thcle reports it fufficicntly appeared that the rebellion as of fuels a nature, that though the rebellious army was deftroyed in the field, the principles on which it had been formed had been mfufecl into the fpirit of the people long before this rehellien appeared in the field, and that their influence would iteceirarily 'be protracted long after tip: I nn t t rra fin'