Star. — London, England, 1818-05-19 00:00:00

-- I . . heart, anxious for the success this i n ; and he was therefore willing, for , die state ale' security which his AkersOlialitsy n tioivsovOilld give, to make a temporary reheat Othe'bniihets. He felt this a very delicate subject ; but he could not, in duty to the investigation he had originated, refrain frontsay-, ing what he had said—(Mach cheering.) He again expressed his hope that the measure would find no interested opponents elsewhere. In that House there was none particularly connected with the abuses which were the objects of the Commission. But he looked confidently for the special and strenuous sup port of the heads of the Christien Church. The Gos pel was emphatically styled the Gospel of the Poor. , Surely the heads of our great establishment for teach- I ing the Gospel could not fail to etert all their pot* in providing that the poor should not be robbed., • The Bill went then through a Committee, and tile Report was ordered to be brought up to morrow. BANK RESTRICTION BILL. On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EX CHEQUER, the Report of the Bank Restriction Bill was taken into further consideration. Mr. F. LEWIS said, that in passing this Bill some preparation ought to be made by the Bank, to re sume, at its expiration, cash payments. If this were not done, he conceived that the present nieasare would go to render the restriction interminable. He should, therefore, propose a clause, which, if the House agreed to it, would pave the way for the re sumption of cash payments, in the course of the next Session. He felt that his powers were not calcu lated to produce that effect on the House—(these was, at this tine, a coniiderable noise) which the im portance of this subject demanded—but he rose in the hope that his observations would call up individuals of greater talent than he possessed. It was his wish that a Bill, considerably different from that now before the House, should be passed. He was anxious that the Bank should, by a legislative provision, be called on to limit their issue of Notes. For this pur pose he should move an Amendment to the preamble of the Bill, specifically binding thein to do so. Two years ago, such a proposition was made and nega tired—but the arguments which were then opposed to it, did not apply to the present circumstances — several reasons had formerly been urged against such a provision. The supporting an army in trance was one. But that army wags now almost entirely maintained by France—and, therefore, the argument failed. Again, the unfavour able state of the ex change was stated as a reason for continuing the restriction—but was this a fair argument, when it was known that a loan was toast raised for France, and when it was perfectly understood that a part of that loan would be contracted for in England?— The effect, en a parity of reasoning, must be, as spe cie must be sent from this country to create a fa vourable, not an unfavourable state of the exchange. If the circumstances of a loan being made for France were used as a reason for abandoning cash payments for he moment, it might have some weight—but he de nied, at all events, that it was a good one for conti nuing such a measure for any considerable length of time. Let the House look to France itself. Under all misfortunes she had adhered to a metallic circu lation—and the price of theprecious metals remained almost unchanged—(hear, hear.) Let Parliament reverse the picture. Notwi thstanding the flourishing state, as it was termed, of this country, no citcum stances, it was said, appeared, to authorise the re sumption of cash. payments. What then was the in ference ? It, was clearly this—that gross misma nagement must exist somewhere. This country had drawn from France and from other nations larger quantities of gold and silver, than had been received in any other part of the world. Yet that abduction had not compelled those countries from which the resource was drawn, to resort to a paper circulation, and, by a parity of reasoning. it was evident that the sending out of this country a quantity of the pre cious metals, ought not to lead to the result, that cash payments should be wholly abandoned. Other causes than those stated must be looked to at the reason, for the non-resumption of cash payments, and other remedies must be resorted to, for the cor rection of the evil—remedies very different indeed from those hitherto proposed. The Honourable Gen tleman then entered into a review of the circum stances which attended the great issue of country bank notes. A vast quantity of paper of that de scription had got into circulation. Many of those country houses had failed—and the consequence was that an additional supply of Bank of England paper was called tor. When he said this, he meant not to deny that the country banks had done much service, but it was most evident that, by their multiplicity, they had spread over the country a greater portion of Bank of England Notes, than, under other circum stances, would have been disseminated. The number of country banks had, undoubtedly, produced many good effects. They had occasioned the transaction of business on niore moderate terms than it otherwise would have been performed, and it had also ren dered it necessary that the issue of each individual should, in a considerable proportion, be contracted. Still, however, they had • facilitated the paper sys tem—but, to revert to the general principle. It was most evident that the great increase of paper money bad tended to raise the prices of every article, even to double them. What was the consequence? Why the expenses of the war were doubled, and thus it was, that in time of peace, they were borne down by the weight of an immense taxation. The longer th..y suffered this system to exist, the greater did the evil become. It must be found at one time or other necessary to face it—and the present hour he considered to be a proper one to meet and check the evil. There could, he was convinced, be no inter- 1 minion to uade by the removal of the Restriction Act. He would ask, had not the rash speculations, so remarkable of late years, mainly arisen out of the rise of prices, wirich a depreciation in the currency caused, and the facility of borrowing money that existed? This led to substitute rash speculation for a prudent trade on fair and solid capital. It was the losses from such a system of trade that bred discon tent throughout the country, as much as any other cause. He admitted that they ought not unneces sarily to interfere with the Bank ; but this bill was a lamentable interference with the Bank, and it was to get rid of this interference that he meant to propose a declaratory Preamble. The Member fur Sin rey (Mr. S. Thornton) complained of the House calling so often for Bauk accounts. This was imperative, so F ik %.0" • Ilong as the Restriction Act continued ; let the House remove that, and he would be content never to call on the Bank for any papers--(hear, hen.) — If the House did - not at this moment interfere, they would leave a system .in existence which had a ten dency to alter thi valie of the whole prOperty in the country. The proposition with which he meant to conclude, bound the Bank to nothing in particular, except to recognize the necessity of a diminution of their issues. They ought to begin with a large re duction of their 11. notes--(Hear, hear,)—as those more directly interfered with a metallic currency.— This would have the best effect, both in restoring matters to a proper state, and also on a subject of the highest importance—he meant the facility for committing the crime of forgery, which grew with the issue of these small notes—(hear, hear.)—Six trials for forgery only took place before 1797-800 was the number since —(Hear, Agar.)—On the sub ject of seigniorage, all he shotlrd say was, that it -would fall on the last holder. The general effect of continuing the present system of currency must be most injurious, both externally as well as internally— it must skew other States that this country wail irre trievably entangled in financial difficulties. There was, in the present moment of peace, an opportunity, by courageously facing the evils in our finance system, to remove this impression with far less dan ger than it could be effected in a time of war, when the apparently helpless state of the country might invite an attack which, from the present pacific state of Europe, there could be no reason to expect. It was in vain to hope that the next year would be more favourable than this for entering upon the subject, and it was foe these considerations that he was anxi ous to call upon the House to adopt the amendment with which he meant to conclude. The Honourable Gentleman then proposed that the words " unfore seen circumstances" should be omitted in the pre , amble of this Bill, and that after tha word " svhereas' these words be inserted—" it is expedient that the re striction be further continued, for the purpose of ena bling the Bank to provide for the resumption of cash payments, by such a gradual reduction in the issue of their smaller notes, as would enable them, with as little delay as possible, to revert to payments in specie." Mr. CANNING said he followed his Honourable Friend, because his Amendment contained precisely the reason for which he would not have consented to the Bill. That part of the Act which his Honourable Friend proposed to displace contained the gebunds on which he consented to the measure. He'held all the principles that he had formerly held upon the subject; and if the Honourable Gentleman would do him the justice to examine hie conduct, he would find, that whilst he had addressed himself with all his little power to discover what he thought were false prin ciples, and to restore what he conceived to be true ones, he had declared his dissent from those who, from the statements made, would have deduced the necessity of Parliamentary influence in any other way than by fixing the period, and leaving the Bank themselves to do what they could when the time Came to bring about the resumption. He preserved that opinion still, and on that ground it was that he opposed the motion. It was not any part of the question that the Bank should be provided for re• snmption by July 5 ; it was their duty to be so. Par liament fixed the time, and when the time was fixed, they ought to be ready to resume at that time. The alteration proposed went a great way to assume that there had been aft incapacity in the Bank to resume, if the_ determination of Parliament had not been as it was. To obvious probability, great part of the gold in this country would find its way to other countries. Then the question was started, how had France not been impoverished? The answer was obvious—in the accumulation of capital here, and the impossibi lity of Fiince to have furnished any thing like the quantity of capital there was in this country.-- r. Frankland Lewis denied that he had used any argument like that alluded to by the Right Honour able Gentleman.] —Mr. Canning begged the Honour able Gentleman's pardon, if he had misunderstood him; but certainly he had supposed him to express himself as he had described. It was the business of the Bank to resume cash payments, and it would be wrong of the Parliament to prescribe the mode, or take upon them to prescribe, as it seemed implied they should do. As they had proceeded so far with out interference, it was most fitting, in his opinion, to leave them masters of their own concern., pre scribing the period at which the restriction should cease. It was insinuated, that other circumstances might take place that might furnish further grounds of prolongation. lie knew of none, however; and with regard to all the wishes and expectations that were held out, far from cherishing and encouraging them, lie knew of no language strong enough by which they ought to be discouraged and depressed. It was his opinion that the country would never be rightly herself till she returned to her sound and pro per circulation. Circumstances had occurred that had prevented the resumption—circumstances which it was no shame to the sagacity of any man not to have perceived. It was said, such might again take place; but in his mind it was impossible to think that circumstances equally unforeseen, equally unexpec. ted, equally anantici2ated, should again rise. Many circumstances had occurred, certainly ; but none with out the French loan would have fairly justified the measure. He could not agree with the Amendment tat the Honourable Member. Mr. J. I'. GRANT said, there was not upon the statute hook a preamble which set forth, as the ground and reason of any measure, that unforeseen circum stances had rendered that necessary. The Right Ho nourable Gentleman had stated it as his own opinion, that the French loan formed the whole reason for the postponement of the resumption, and it had been stated by others on the same side of the House ; now why; if tl at were the case, did they not at once in sert that fact in the Bill? Either they were confi dent that that was the truth, or they were not confi dent of it. If they were confident, why did they not state that as their opinion, and give the true reason for the continuance of the restrictions? They said, as it was, however, unforeseen circumstances had happened which they would not detail, and then they got up in their places and said the French loan was the reason. It was said that the Bank had made pro vision. But if their issues be too great for the sup ply of the demand, their issues would, be depreciated, and they would not be able to pay. That should have bcea taken into consideration. With respect to tic arzument of the loan, he could not tell what it meant that a loan was to affect the price of gold in this country ; that gold was to vary because the King of France had borrowed money. Surely it had never come into the heads If Gentlemen opposite that the iprwa corpus of the bullion was transmitted. Remit tances were not made in bullion; or if they were, when made, the bullion was sent as any thing else would be transmitted. There had been only 150,0001. sent in gold, of the loan made to the Emperor of Germany. The advances from the Bank to the Go• ,ernment had been about 1'2,000,0001. The Right Honourable Gentleman had made provisions, how ever, for advances by way of ExcheTier Bills to the amount of 20.000,0001. When he recollected that that had been the cause of the stoppage of the Bank, the House might be satisfied that the stoppage in 1797 had proceeded from no other cause, and there was no reason why a similar effect might not be pro duced in the prevention of cash payments in 1818. He did not mean to reflect upon the Bank for any thing that had happened. It was the business of the Directors to do all they could for their Corporation. They had certainly made considerable profit for their Corporation, but not in a way most advantageous to the country. The Honourable and Learned Gentle man concluded by giving notice, that he should, in a future stage, propose to insert in the preamble an amendment, for the resumption of payments in six weeks after the next meeting of Parliament. Mr. C. GRANT said, that most of the arguments of the Honourable Gentlemen opposite had been upon remittances, on which subject he by no means agreed with them. Mr. GRANT, jun. said, it seemed to him that thia measure, load it with what charges we pleased, had had a material effect in carrying on the last war to its successful termination. He objected to it as a permanent measure, because he thought that its, merits consisted in its being temporary. Upon the whole, after a mature and impartial consideration of the subject, he felt himself called upon to agree in the suspension for one year. Mr. BANKES said, he.nsost sincerely wished that the House had acceded to a motion that was made some weeks ago to inquire into this matter—(Aear, hear); and he trusted that the Right Honourable Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) would consent to an investigation early in the next Session, when the subject might be gravely and seiii.usly considered. If a Committee had been appointed, 1w should have asked the Right Hon. Gentleman on what grounds he conceived that the Bank would be, enabled, at the end of one year, to resume its pay menus? Was this likely to be the last year during which the suspension would be continued ? For his own part, he thought, that from time to time there would be either some foreseen or unforeseen cause to prevent the resumption of payment in specie —(hear, hear). It would be a great point to come back to a sound state of currency, and the country had a right to demand it—(lsear, hear). Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House divided—For the Motion 88—Against it 21 —Majority 67. On our admission to the gallery we found Mr. J. P. GRANT proposing that, instead of the sth of July, six weeks after the commencement of the next Session should be inserted. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that a term of six weeks would be too short for con sidering so serious a question. Mr. TIERNEY proposed the 25th of March for the resumption of casts payments, or that a Commit tee should be appointed for that day. The sth ofJuly was the Chancellor's best friend. But if the whole business between him and the Bank was not a juggle, he hoped he would have the candour of the Gentle man under the gallery (Mr. Gurney), who held the ,payment of paper in specie to be an abominable heresy—( Hear, and a laugh.) Mr. J. P. GRANT withdrew his motion, for the purpose of giving way to the 25th of March. Mr. C. GRANT explained. He said also that the effect of the French loan could not be over by March. Mr. J. P. GRANT asked, if the Hon. Gentleman could say that it would he over by the sth of July ? The House then divided, and the numbers were— For the Amendment 27—Against it 88— Majority 61. ways AND MEANS. The House then went into a Committee of Ways and Means. On the CIIAIRMAV moving a Resolu tion that 250,00 J/. be raised for the service of the current year by way of Lottery, Mr. LYTTLETON, aware that the House would listen with some degree of impatience to the argu ments on this subject, so often repeated, would only urge the principal objections against the measure. It was objectionable on all grounds of morality, and he had hoped that it would have been withdrawn, as the Chancellor of the Exchequer had lately changed his opinion on subjects of less importance—(hcar.)— He was unfortunate it the Chancellor should perse vere in this alone. However, it was his duty to protest against it, and he would do so to the last.— The most honourable distinction of a deliberative as sembly was, that it acted on general principles, and not on the convenience of the moment. If it was urged that the revenue of £250,000 could not be spared, it might as well be said that a revenue might be raised from brothes and gambling-houses. The House had . started from a propos . tion of the latter description at the beginning of this Session, and they would do the same with respect to the Lottery, if they had not been so long accustomed to it. lie feared that the Chancellor might be influenced by the patronage of the system. There was one place of 7001. a year, 2of 5001. and Sof 2001. Another evil from the system was the encouragement it gave to informers and prying people. It struck also at the root of all industry, and so injured more than it as sisted the revenues. Perhaps those who were so earnest in building the new Churches (hear, hear,) thought, by so doing to atone for the mischief they thus created. But it was utterly inconsisent to be anxious about the education of the people, and the improve ment of morality on one side, if all that was done was defeated by the Lottery on the other. The Ho nourable Gentleman seemed to be raising batteries against his own measures, but it would be mere can did and simple to abandon them at !MC?... He must oppose the resolution, unless the Chancellor could say something in its favour. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought himself not called on to give additional rea son, in favour of a measure in which he only followed all his predecessors. The llonourabl - .. Gctalcmau had 'advanced no new argument, and as time smut,' always be a certain ratitity of gambling, Lotteries were not more mischievous than unauthorised OA. Sir M. W. RIDLEY remarked the gross useon. sistency of setting up Saving Banks for the Frare, e alluring people to venture their earnings in a L otte‘. Sir JOHN NEWPORT related an anecdote of tin present High Sheriff of Dublin, who was a Lotte r , Office Keeper, and had been lately convicted i s t h e penalty of 501. fur illegal insurances, after a sirai'. 4 r conviction for a similar offence last year ; ner e -4%, standing which his license had been renewed. Th, e were six other prosecutions against him. The CHANCELLOR of die EXCHEQUER r ,• 4. that if an Office Keeper in London had been of such an offence, his license would not have has renewed. Sir JOHN NEWPORT replied, that the R onc . r. able Gentleman was Chancellor of the Irish a s a re a as of the English Exchequer—(hear, &ear). ni t Mr. WILBERFORCE, in answer to t h e argument that unauthorised gambling would e x i st if th e Let. very did not, said that the latter was a national crime, encouraging immorality at large , and no t exc i t i reprobation like a private vice. ere was to pin-A of defending , this, which would not go also to defetil any other crime, and he hoped to see the end of a system so injurious and destructive of industry. Il e sum gained by it amounted to so much as was stx ed ; but who could calculate its effects in demoialis. ing the people, and what fruits of honest industry i t might entirely destroy ? Mr. B. HOWARD contended that the mess suspended the law of the land. There were ;tauten winch declared all Lotteries public nuisances, and subversive of the common Mr. W. SMITH knew good Mr. of raiting revenue, but thought it could not justify every expe dient. He considered the encouragement of Sarrio banks with one hand, while on the other the Lott , •77 Office-keepers were permitted, by every scheme a-id mode of deceit, to induce the people to thirty a rai their little savings in the Lottery, was a solicisei is Legislature, and as perfectly the act of a mime bank as any he had ever witnessed. Mr. LYTTELTON briefly replied, that he beirld there was very little propensity to gan.blit:t in f.ke genius of the people, but that the price of a tixteett!l tempted the people to purchase, and tho very Form would form societies for that purpose. As the per. port of the Lottery Bill was so little known, he woJ,i move that it should be printed. The House the: e, vided on the question, when the numbers were—f;: the Resolutions 75—Against them S3—Nli:oritr The House then resumed, and the Report was t;. dered to be received to-morrow. COMMITTEE OP SUPFLYIRISII FSTP!ATr.t. The House, on the motion of Mr. PELL, resolved a Committee of Supply. The Irish Miscellaneous Estimates, toyelwr 074. nance Estimates for Ireland, and the sti:ll2e for died Militia of Ireland, were referred to it. Mr. PEEL moved a Resolution for creating fee car ing on the works of Dunmore Harbour. Upon the Resolution being read by the CrAIRMAIr, Sir JOHN NEWPORT made tome obst•reat:ons ea the :-.- portance of this and dmihw measures kr the raNii:,:ion of tit Channel and the Fast Coast of Ireland. lo or, week, du:7 last year, fifty or sixty, or even one hundred sail of vends, lue put into Waterford Harbour from stress of wrath's, which., without the existence of such a retreat, might have ran grent danger of being lost. The further extension of the Harbour of Dunmore was a matter of great importance. ie ~:,c: Mr. PEEL allowed that it was desirable to extend the Har bour; but he thought it ought as sow as possible to be te-s -plesed on the present limited scale, wbi cumpletton, be ltd beard from as intelligent engineer, would not at al itutrict with its extension at a futon: opportunity. The Resolution was :greed to. A 111111 of 5,000 i. was voted for the works of ilowth When the Resolution for granting 15,000 i. towards IP rne tion or support of Fever Hospitals in Ireland was poi:ma, a conversation took place between Sir 31. W. Rintar, Sir J. soar, and Mr. I'xcs., as to the propriety of increasing the and on the extent of private exertions for removing or ; the contagion ; Mr. Prat statir.g, that &is sum was me ii . a 0 tion to 43,0001. already voted for a similar object, aLd , :r ! Nara PORT condemning strongly the conduct of absent" , - - tors, who made such grants necessary be withholding Lapse • s • - ritable contribution, to the support and relief of the poor which it was their duty to advance. The Retolution n A agreed to, as was that for 18,461!. for building Char:hes I purchasing Glebes in Ireland. A sum of 15,6001. w. - .; • wards making a Canal between Lake Allen and the HT non • 9.07,00 e. fin the Ordnance Estiman ; and 141. the Disembodied Militia. The House then mu:lat.:, 4...4 Report was ordered to be received on Wednesday. LORD-JUSTICE-GENERAL OF SCOTLAND. vottJ -e• Mr. BANKER moved that the Order of the f.r House going Into a Committee on the Lordiartist.6:7. -- Scothcnd'i Office Regulation Dill be discharted, and ..he mince postponed to this day three month. Mr. J. I'. GRANT never heard any reason a.!! (reducing this Mil, and there was now as little vs for withdrawing it. Mr. BANKER said the Finance Committee had mem ed the abolition of the ofdee, and had preposetl this bill. Mr. TIERNEY said he did not wish to get :id of it. 'r was to be introduesd next year, which he did r.oe beltte. would be, as the job was so abominable, that nobody co:Id : to defend it—(/fear, hoar.) After a few words tram Mr.llersrtsvoy,fro:n • '2 denied there were any duties attached to the conc.! -ek!•1. to devolve an the President of the Court of fe.(.l-.1, :rd the only office with duties which could devolve open hi!- '- the present Justlce-Generil 'the Duke of Montrose; v; Master of the Horse, (a 1ate,h,,11 ,, m Sir J. Newer:oat,: J. P. Citta:iv, the motion was agreed to, The Resolutions for grouting 80001. a tar to the l).11e of Kent on his marriage, and GOOtd. a year of desert se •he of Linangen, incase of her sirs tying his Roral , sct lo.onght up and agreed to ; and a Dill ordered to' be Lyeetirt !rr.e.! kr IF :rr .. : .^`i in consequence. The other Orders of the Day were then disposed ef, wd at Douse adjourned at Twelve &Clod. Tranquillity has been restored at Winchester CV. lege. About forty of the Gentlemen Commow:s have been allowed to resign. There were only six on:: of 2110 who did not join in the revolt--the two scnie-. and fair other College Prefects. The difference between the Corntern Dowaget e: Kniorrox, and the Earl of KiNsisrev. has.been act. justed by arbitration, the result of witch is, that ' 9000/. is awarded for the injury done to the csatcs since the death of the late Earl. It has been hitherto considered a Prinsirk in chanics, that " what is gained in Petra is lost :ft Time ;" but by the recent construction of a Wl:v. which will soon be publicly in motion, this principle seems completely changed, as the power of a !441:1i only twelve years of age will raise from it a Thoucau d Pounds per Minute ; and whoever has a Share ia this mpiial movement, must be convinced that the ft iction of Poverty is effectually overcome, for the Wheel cots' tains 107 Capital Prizes, including three of INV (1 . and the first 20 Prizes drawn on the Ktnes DAY, when this Grand Lottery bes 4 iis, ssiil recr..le 1,1001. each in addition. t itetioC Si pee Nel Fob- 1c 01 Kowa be Abi l ee do id ed% g clop . L y au le to to ; l ey Cl 0 : the man )tv the puce a/ ever; and it su ki the I Ever rcpt t direct rtmost fa! and OTr vW Car j We luestic A) ( ihould Ncpa icier ' lr t Y 1 fitemWeei cob Pul liwini Ling( 1g a they. lead ieldoi other Cce a Magi nrne Tzad ,:trz Tt u ir. the I: nnu ut lalikll