Star. — London, England, 1802-03-16 00:00:00

tett the Hon. iticniter to hare prcceedcd !lad he not prefumed he would have brought himself in order by concluding with a M. tica. The CHANCELLOR of the Excatespat raid, he thought it material, after what had pallid, that lonic notice fhcald be takcn by him of the mil slaternent to which the f-lon. Gentleman had allud ed. He knew it had produced a very great fen flti .n it certainly was a great mifreprefentation, and the very reverie of what fell fiom him on Friday night. The Houfe patted to the Order of the day. CIVIL LIST. Mr.Bßeccs brought up the Report of the Corn. mittee to whom the accounts relative to the Civil Lill were aeferred. The CHANCELLOR of the Excrorosta (aid, he fuppofed it was not the with of the Houfe to have the Report read—lf it was their pleafure, he would move that it fhould be printed, and if the copies could he delivered by Thurfday, he willed to give notice he thould, on Monday next, move to refer the accounts to the Committee of Supply. He defired the Houle would nnderßand this notice as merely given provisionally. He moved, that the book containing an account of SpecialtService Mo ney, and Royal &unities, which had been refer red to the Committee, should now be returned to the Lords Commiffioners of the Treafury. The motion, after fome objection from Mr. TIERNEY, was agreed to. VACCINt INOCULATION. Admiral BARCLAY Paid, he held in his hand a Petition front a perfon to whom not only this coun try, but Europe in general, was indebted for a dif coveryi which went to eradicate one of the moll penitential diforders with which the human race were antiaed. He alluded to Dr. Edward Jen oer, the author of the Vaccine Inoculation. He had given the benefit of his difcovery to the public, when, if he had adopted a lefs liberal line of con dua, he might have realifed a princely fortune.— Out of thoufands who had benefited by it, Doaor Jenner was the only perfon who had not reaped any advantage. The Hon. Member read a letter from the Secretary of a Committee appointed by the Republic of France, Rating the importance of the difcovery, and the advantage likely to refult from it. The Sreattea informed the Hon. Memlser, that as the period for prefenting private Petitions had elapfed, he mutt prefent a previous Petition, pray ing for leave to prefent the one now offered. CORN RLGULATION. The CHANCELLOR of the Excl., patron raid, he role ptirfuant to the intimation he had given to the Houle, to move for a Committee to examine the Rate of the Corn Trade between Great Britain and Ireland. In making regulations upon this fubjea, it appeared to him that there ought to be a free intercourfe between the two Countries, that they Should have the means of adminillering to each others wants, and that the deficiency cutting in tome parts, might be fupplied by the abundance which exilled in others, and if it were neceffitry to impoh any reftriaions, they ought to be of a ge neral; and not of a partial nature. In regulating the concerns of England and Wales, when that Country was annexed to England, or at lean in a very Ihort time after, the great objea of our An tennas was to identify the two Countries. The fame policy was adopted at the period of the Union between England and Scotland, and it mull be the with of every man who wished well to the Em pire at large, that the fame policy should prevail between Great Britain and Ireland. The fat was, that for reafons which it was not neceffary now to advert to, in the article ofCorn, there was a pro digions difference between the two Countries.— There were many inftances in which the price of Grain in Ireland had been nearly double the price of the fame fort of Grain in Great Britain, and this had arifen from the operation of Laws which had been thought wife and expedient when they were adopted. They were enaaed at a time when Ireland was a feparate kingdom, and when it was of great importance for the Legiflature of that Country to give every facility to cultivation. By thele Laws the export price of Wheat was fixed at 455. a quarter ; of Rice and Barley, 231. a quar ter; and Oats, 15s. 9d. a quarter. Hellateti the price by Om quarter inilead of the barrel, in order to make it more intehigible. But he contended, that even if Ireland were now a feparate kingdom, , Chef! priced ought not to continue. They were fTed under very different circomilances, and when the prices of Grain were much lower than they ncw were, and therefore, even if the Union had not taken place, fame alteration ought to be made in them. He knew bow difficult it was.' upon filch a fubjeil as this, to make a great change by the immediate adoption of a new prin. however incontellable the wifdom of it mig!it be. Upon all general principles it would he wife to get rid of all dillinaions refpeaing Corn between Great Britain and Ireland, as had been done in the cafe of Scotland ; :Ind that no , more &Illation ought to fubfil between them than between any two counties of Great Britain. There were, however, independent of the preju dices which mutt prevail upon fuch a fubjet, fome • circumftances peculiar to Ireland, which were entitled to confederation. It might be apprehend ed, that in the event of a preffure from a fcarcity, that the Capital of England would draw a great proportion of the grain from Ireland. There was oil . ° another circurailance that deferved to be con sidered, 'which was, that the means provided in this country for the relief of the poor did not JO fill in Ireland, there being-no poor-rate there.— Therefore, upon loch a lubjea, it would be ne— ceffary to move cautiously, fearfully, and with a degree of circumfpeaion upon a lubjea which might be fuppofed, in fome intlances, to prevent the Poor of Ireland from getting their fond at reNfonable prices. There being no Poor-rate in Ireland, the labourer bad nothing to depend upon but his own earning, and the liberality and bene volence of his neighbours. At the fltme time he could not help laying there mull have been a de free of prejudice in entertaining the idea that the acility of exportation of corn from Ireland into this country would be injurious to the People of 1--....a.—mo—dkewprocua•nrn ni. ay. An .4 4 % ‘ .4 •I N % ‘ U.,:0.. operated as a rearaint on the exportation of fpirits from Ireland to this Country ; and therefore, if Corn was brought here in the Ihape of Sriritsjo any amcunt, the elle& was the fame, at leatt as to the quantity of grain ufed in filch amount, as if it came in kind. Under this im. preilion of the fubjea, what he wiffied and hoped to be adopted at prefent was, that of railing the export price, fo as to enable the owher in Ireland to lend, and this part of the United Kingdom to receive from thence, grain, (after fixing the price at which it may be allowed to be exported,) in like manner as from any other part of the Continent of Europe. The lowelt price at which, at pre fent, Corn could be received into this country was, Wheat 545. Barley 28s. and Oats 235. per quar ter. He mould hope that the Houle would be of opinion it would be an encouragement to cultiva tion in Ireland, and by fuch means, an advantage to the people at large there, as well as here, to en able one part of the Empire to obtain from the other—that was, to enable the Empire to obtain of a part of Well the means of fubfiflence with more facility ; for this purpofe he thought the bet ter courfe would be to raife the price at which it than be allowable to export from Ireland to Eng land grain of all denominations. The principle on which he propofed this had been already car ried into effeft for the benefit of a refpeitable, and indeed valuable body of men in this country, the Diftillers. The trade of the Well India Mer chants, a valuable confederation alfo, called for the adoption of this meafure, and therefore the Houfe would be defirous of adopting it; but, above all, he would fay, (for it was a matter of the higheft importance,) to enable Great Britain to traffic with herfelf in the article of corn, for to traffic with Ireland now was to traffic with her felt; inftead of rcforting to any market the may find on the Continent ; for, at prefent, intlead of deriving our fupply from Ireland, and, by fuch means, encouraging cultivation there, by which the advantage would be reciprocal ; to Great Bri • tails the ad vantage - would be 'confiderable, by having her grain from Ireland—to Ireland the advantage would be alfo confiderable, by the en couragement it would give to cultivation, whereas the prefent practice of importing from the diffe rent markets on the Continent was a lots to both— dead lots to the Empire at large.—Thefe were the confiderations which had induced him to think of referring the matter for difcuffion, and he had no doubt it would receive from a Committee the attention it required ; if it Ihould, as he hoped it fhould, be the pleafure of the Honfe to appoint a Committee for that purpofe.—lt was not for him to fay what might be the refult of the labour of that Committee, nor to anticipate what might af terwards be the determination of the Houle—he had only at prefent to fuhmit it as a matter worthy of inveffigation, and, therefore, he Ihould now move, " That a Committee be appointed .to confider of the State of the Corn Trade between Great Britain and Ireland, and to report the fame, with their obfervations thereupon, to the Honfe." Mr. Form raid, he rote for the purpofe, of delaring his approbation of the meafure now propored by the Right Hon. Gentleman who had jolt fpoken. There was no man in England who had more Readily (leered through every difficulty which lay in the way of the perfc& Union between Great Britain and Ireland, nor any better quali fied to carry the fpirit of that Ad into ace, than the Right Hon. Gentleman who (poke 1011. The matter now before the Houfe, was of very im portant confederation ; but it was not all that ought to be confidered, even under this head : there were many other topics extremely worthy the attention of the Houfe--it appeared to him to be the true interta of the Empire at large; to bring the two parts of the kingdom into one, and make them as if they were only two counties, in regard to the trade in Corn, at leak He had the more pleafure in feconding this motion, fine on Thurf day he intended to give notice of a Motion for the appointment of a Committee to inquire into the Corn Laws of Ireland, and to take a view of the Imports from thence into this country, for the purpofe of extending it. However, he did not chafe to enter on that butlnefs until the Chancel lor of the Exchequer appeared in the Houle, but when he found it was intended to be taken up by that Right Hon. Gentleman, he thought that, as well as the regulation of the Trade in general, was in the hell hands, and therefore he gave the matter .up to that Right liori. Gentleman. He approved entirely of this proceeding, and he thought he could anfwer for =lreland, that it was a general with there that fuch a meafure as this fliould be adopted. He believed it was a fincere with in Ireland, that every obllacle to the plan of making the two parts of the Kingdom one, in refpeet of this Trade, thould be removed ; t hat it Mould be made as it were a mere coaltini trade. However, while he raid this, and when he underftood that Ireland thould, in general, be of this opinion, he could not let flip this opportunity of obferving, that the laws of Ireland, upon this fubjeß, had continued uni form from the year 1784. By the Bill which then pall, upon this rubjeft, Ireland was bound to allow the Expoi tation of its Corn from thence into this country, leaving it to this country to fix the price at which that k.xportation timid take place. The Britifb Parliament had the power of fixing the price, and Ireland was bound to allow the Expor tation accordingly. That law had been continued now for leventeen years in force, and it bad always been approved of, and, therefore, he believed that the mealure now propofed would meet general con. curreuce in Ireland. Having f Paid this, he thought it might not he improper to übmit,• further, whe ther it might not be better to enlarge the power of the Committee, for the appointment of which the Right Hon. Gentleman had jull moved, and to in- Aral it to take into confideration the Corn Laws at large? The Corn Laws of Ireland had the ad vantage of thofe of this country; and under thole Laws, the Agriculture of Ireland had greatly thriven, fo much fo, as to have more Corn than it could life, except for the IA feafon or two; but that was indeed chiefly owing to the failure of the growth of potatoes, the feareity of which increafed ear Arvin • hsiei it now been for the tailor. of the crop of potatnet, theft would have been no neceillty for impoi Ling any Corn into Ire. land. He was lorry to fay, that, in cOnfiJering the_cafe of this country, the laws in thi, it ef i xa, bad been inferior in policy to thoCe of Ire, Intl, for ever fince the year a 767, and down almoll to the prefent day, the Laws of Great Britain had been almoll the reverfe of the Laws of Ireland, and certainly unwife, for it had bee,i a continued fyi: tern of alterations. An endeavour femetimes to regulate the trade of the Corn Faaor, at others to regulate, capricionfly, the trade of exportation, at others importation, the whole of it antUng up a difcouraging uncertainty, and therefore it was no wonder the agriculture of the country declined under the imprellon of it. He thould not, now, expatiate upon all the defeds of (itch a fyflem, nor make a laborious comparifon between it, and that which was adopted in Ireland; there was one point, however, which he could not pafs over un noticed: in Ireland, when the regulation was made upon this article, it was made to operate uniform. ly on the whole of the country. Here we had fixteen diftrias, and chitin& regulations to each, fo that we might be exporting Corn at one part of the Kingdom, while we were importing it at another, the evils of which were many : one of them was, that we never could haie a true crite rion to guide us for general purpnfes, which ought to be the end of Legiflation. He f - aisl, therefore, in this cafe, there thould be a free participation be tween the two countries; we fhould make one Ilandard for both. Fix the regulation of import or expert by a price taken from an average of the two parti ofthe United Kingdom. We fhould join the whole together, and regulate the whole as of one common Kingdom, and one common cattle in one Kingdom : for which purpofe it would be ne ceffary for us to look, at large, into the whole fubjea, and lay down one general fyflem for both parts of the United Kingdom. Ireland (hould be taught that the would be (ale in opening her trade to this country, and we (hould be fecured here againft any apprehenfion of inconvenience from that fpecies of encouragement to Ireland.— When this fyftem was well digefled, and put in pra.aice, this country would never want Grain while Ireland had any to fend here. Mr. VANDELIUR Paid, that this queftion ap peared to him to be one of the moll delicate that could be brought forward in Parliament, becaufe it went to make an alteration in a fyftetn of Laws under which Ireland bad gained great advantages to her agriculture, and thcfe advantages the had been in the enjoyment of for the lag fixteen years. Under this code of laws the agriculture of Ire land had flourithed ; and confidering this, he, as a native of that country, fhould have Come appre. henfions of danger to its interefts, if he had not obferved the Right Hon. Gentleman who fpoke lag approving of it ; he, from his talents and ex perience, was defcrvedly high itathe eftimation of his countrymen, and particularly in knowledge of Trade, fo that he was confident the Gentlemen of Ireland would be fatisfied with this meafure, fince he approved of it ; but independent of this confi dence which he had in that Right Hon. Gentleman's abilities and integrity, he had alledged very good reafons for his opinion to-night upon this fubjea, and he was glad to adopt the meafure from thole reafons ; and that the more particularly, as he had recommended the plan of reviling the whole of the Corn Laws, and making one general fyflem for both parts of the United Kingdom.—Having ex patiated on the advantages which Ireland, at prefect, cies by the Laws as they (land, by way of flawing the fincerity which the mutt have in this meafure by affenting to it, he conchtded with approving of every thing which was Paid to-night by the Right Honourable Gentleman who fpoke laft. The queflion was then put. The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHE4VER la id . I he was confident the Houle would do him the juflice to recollea, that, before the recefs, be gave notice to the Houle of his intention (an intention which was delayed from a cattle probably within I the knpwledge of the Houle) to bring forward a motion on this fubjea, defcribing it at that time to ha,e for its °Neel, " a regulation of the Curn Trade of Great Britain and Ireland."—lt was therefore not extraordinary, that he fhould have wifhed the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Fofter)i to abtlain from bringing forward this fubjea ; and this was what, he could not help (toting. He had pledged himfelf to bring the lubjea forward, and he was bound to redeem himfelt with the Houfe upon that pledge, not that he was not fully aware of the advantages which the fubjea would de. rive from being brought forward by that Right Hon. Gentleman, but when he made the pledge he had fpoken of to the Houfe, that Right Hon. Gentleman had not a feat in it. However, what he had laid to-night was deferving of great con fideration, although it appeared to him to be inexpedient to adopt it at prefent. Thi. Right Honourable Gentleman is defirous, raid Mr. Ad dington, and I am glad he is, that all difline tions (hould be done away .in trade, between the two branches of the United Kingdom. That every thing that is harfh, or may appear invidious, or injurious, thould be done away, is my with, as well as that of the Right Hon. Gentleman, and mull, indeed, be the with of us all ; but I think it is not poffible for us to adopt the principle laid down by the. Right Hon. Gentleman, to its full extent, until we know the opinion of the Com mittee upon the fubjea, and whether, after the Committee thall have concluded its labours, the Houfe, after having had the advantage of fuch la bour will be of opinion that the whole of this trade (bould be laid opon—lt was then, he raid, the oh foliations of the Right Hon. Gentleman would come properly under the confederation of the Houfe. However, if any thing of this fort (hold occur to the Committee as a necellary meafure, they, would have power to report from time to time ; and if it fbould be necefrary, their ower might be enlarged, and according to the informa tion which the Houle might receive, and the im, prellion which it might make on the Houfe, they might enlarge the fphere of the inquiry of the Committee, and if that thould appear to be the with of the Houfe at any time, it Ihould meet with no oppofition from him ; but, at prelim, be could nrtennear in feting the expediency cf carryinrtnr inquiry th the extent recommended b i the *Uzi.. Hen. Centletnan. Yiosrta laid, his objea was, that the ports of Ireland (hould be opened fo as to enable it to 'fend Corn into this country. As to the power ( the Committee being enlarged, he thought that efential, and he hoped it would take place. The Corn Laws of Ireland had fatisfied the people or Ireland. The Corn Laws of England had not fatisSed the - people of England, as was evident by tho.Legifiature altering them continually. 11 the fyilem which we were now to adopt, was c. wife one, the price of the market in Ireland would go into the computation with that of England, and the reftraint thould be made a joint rearaint, over ating alike on both countries. Without this ge neral policy, applying equally to both England and Ireland, lie did not fee how the matter cot 44 be at all fettled to advantage. He underftood ti,i.t the Committee might call, from time to time, h, an enlargement of power, and the Houfe might grant it ; but whether they did or not, he was per• waded that nothing fhort of what he had Rated, would be adequate to the purpofe. The CHANCELLOR of the Ercuagysit at prefent, the fubjeft to be confined to the Mo tion. Sir W. PULTENEY faid, he was very glad that Gentlemen Teemed to feel fome doubt whether the Corn Laws of England were what they ought to be ? that they were not was evident, from the number of Atls of Parliament made from time to time upon that fubjed, which proved that the matter had not been well underftood, for if the fubjed had been clearly comprehended at firll, the Law might have been fo made as to require no al teration, or at kali but little alteration : initead of that, there had been a continual variation iu the Law on this fubjed ; a thing mach to be la mented : for, among many evils, it was a great detriment to agriculture in England.—We knew, that from the time of King William, there was no change in the Corn Laws until the year 1757 — when there was an alarm of Scarcity, and our Corn Laws were thrown open.—This had intro duced afterwards a praFtice of endeavonring, from time to time, to make provifions, according to fomc temporary exigency, which introduced into the Law an uncertainty th.it had a grievous effect ; for the Farmer never knew exaftly what to do, that is, he knew not what to look forward to as the Law to guide him. He was very glad the Country had been called upon to oblerve the con trail between the laws of England and of Ireland in this particular. The matter should be ,looked into ; and he hoped it would not be loft fight of ; and he laid this, not for the fake of England only, but for the fake of Ireland alfo. Both might be nefit by this inquiry; and he was lure it was highly necelfary that the whole of our Corn Law; (110111 d be reviewed. Mr. WILBIRFORCE ohferved, that as the Cora• mittee might report from time to time, as Elated by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, nothing far ther need be done now than to agree to the appoint ment of a Committee. And if it should appear to be neceffary, the importation of Corn from Ire land into this Country, 'night take place without delay, and that prior to any general. (*Own being adopted to regulate this Trade between the two Countries. Lord HAWKESSURY obferved, that he fhould not have offered himfelf to the notice of the Houfe up. on the prefent occaiion, if it had not been for a tingle ohfervation of a Right Hon. Gentleman, , (Mr. Porter), who had taken a part in this debate, and which, if not anfwered, might leave an im. preffiun he fhould be lorry fcr. fliere was no dif ference of opinion, as he underftood, on the Mo. tion. It was expedient, in the &ft initance, to ap point a Committee to inquire into thit Law, and that fhould precede the inquiry of how far it would be wife to open the general Corn Trade between Great Britain and Ireland ? But this he was ready to admit beforehand, that the general Law of the Empire, upon this fuhjed, was fuch as to require revition. Without Paying what the remedy fhould be, he was ready to admit, that there ought to be a general plan for the purpofe of preventing occa fronal Ads of Parliament, upon fome temporary, or perhaps, local inconvenience ; for fuch interfe rences of the Lcgiflaturc had been proved, by ex perience, to be injurious to the general interefts of the Public. But to fay this, was not the purpofe for which he role ; the Ri t Hon. Gentleman ' (Mr. Potter) had obferved t under the laws of Ireland, the Agriculture of J r and had improved. That under the laws of England, the Agriculture of England had declined. He was fpeaking in the hearing of thofe who knew, this fubjedt much better than hunfelf, who underflood the Agriculture of ' England extremely well, and he appealed to them in particular, as well as to the Houfe in general, whether, notwithtlanding the inconveniencies. whatever they might be, and they might be nume. Tons and great, bin whatever they might be, from the fluduation of the law upon this fubjea, and of prices in this article ; he would afic, whether the Agriculture of this Country was not, fo far from declining, that within the lag ten years, it had improved more than it did in the fame length of time, in the whole courfe of the hittory of this Country ? He maintained, that it was im potrible to look at fads, as they appeared before us daily, without coming to that conelufion. It might be matter of curiofity to inquire, why, if the Agriculture of the country had fo increafed, England bad, for the laft 3o years, been an im porting country with refped to corn, when it was known, that for the preceding part of the century Ihr was an exporting country. That might be uf. c ram! to the influence of population, and alfo of wealth, and its attendant luxury, by which Wheat had come into common confumption in England over every part of it, or nearly fu; however that might be, clear it was, the Agriculture of England had improved greatly within thefe ten years. On the comparifon between Great Britain and Ireland , it fhould be obferved, that Wheat was not the common food of man in Ireland ; he underflood no fpecies of Grain except Oats was in general confumption there—Barley in a great degr:e cer tainly, but not general ; but this prevented the r~