Star. — London, England, 1802-05-21 00:00:00

I PARI.I44fENTARr PROCEEDINGS. HOWE OF LORDS. THURSDAY, MAY se. ' &wend WM went thrones Committees of the whole Hook. Others were read a fccond time. .111 Add:eft was moved to his Moiety. denting that be *meld he Seared to give orders that a lilsport of the Proceed. rigs of the Comnsiffi.iner. for redeeming t►e Land Tax be laid before the Heide. Ordered. ELECTION TREATING TILL. The Order of the Day for going into a Cone. mince of the whole Honk on the Ekdtion Treat. being read, The LORD CHARCELLoR left the Woolfeck, and real - coca at tome length on the feeeral claufes of 111.2 Wll, which, in his opinion, as they Rood in the Bill, required a great deal of ferions confider atinn. Hhl.orillhip in particular objeaed to the clentc cmillituting the fpecial report and deter mination of a Seleß Committee of the Houle of Com moni:conclufi e evidence of the truth of the la•ils therein Bated. After much argument upon the danger of Lying down fuch a doarine by a foletnn act of the Legiflature, and noon many I ol:;e6ionable parts t•l•tlie Bill, which might poit. bly be better treated of in the Committee, his Lordfhip exprcffed his furprize that no friend of thx Bill fhoild have thought it neceffary for him , to ',Ave raid one word in explanation of the Bill, previous to its reaching its prefent Urge; fo far from this having been done, the Bill, like too many others of equal importance in the prefent fedion, had been brought in with as much indiffe rence as if it were a common Inelofure 8011. Lord eizvazzt.y Paid be did not, of a friend to the Bill. feel himfelf at all railed upon to enter into any defence of it, before he had heard the arguments of his Noble and Learned Friend ; and notwithftanding the objections that the Houle lird _just beard made, he mull Bill contend in fupport of the Bill, that it was highly neceffary to fix and afiertain practice which the Houfe of Commons, and (fincc they fo honourably voted themfelves improper to exercife the tight of trying Eleaion Ca:es,) their Eleaion Committees had, almoft without exception, adopted from the very time of : palling the Aa of Kii%.William. His Lord fr.ip instanced the determination in the cafe of Aldhoroutli, which happened won after the Aft palled under the name of Mr. Grenville's Bill.— lie then enumerated the cafe of General Smith's conviaion of bribery at the Hendon Eleaion and his fu'irequent reelection . The cafe of the 'Thet ford Elcaion, andvarious other Boroughs, to be found in the Eleaion Reports of a Noble Lord (Glenbervie), in which the fame rule of incapa citation was adopted, till he came to the cafe of Norwich, where the decision of a Selea Commit tee was grounded on very oppolite principles.— Now, he would elk their Lorelfhips, if it was fit that there Should be one law for Thetford and an other for Norwich ? Surely it was high time that Come Legifirtive rule timid be ensiled, in order to render the dettifions of Sclea Committees uni form, and founded on known principles. He hid no man entertained a higher refpeSt, or a more af fectionate regard for Mr. Grenville's Bill, but he did not conceive that the prefent Bftl, when Come f4w oeceffary alterations, which he Should himfetf propore in the Committee, were made in it, would be any violation of the Spirit of that wife ended vantageous rneafure. The Houfe would recollea that the Bill came op from the Houfe of Com• mons, and related Solely to the Eleillions of their own Members. It was, therefore, entitle d to attention from their Lordships , andhehthat they would not decide upon it without at leaft feting it to go into a Committee, as they might debate it fully on the Report. The Earl of Rossi.ve Paid, he thourfit it re quired a great deal of ferions confidention before their I.ordfhips agreed to do Co Itrong a thing as to conflitute a Seca Committee of the Houfe of Commons a Court of Criminal Judicature. Ex clufive of fuch a Committee having neither Judge nor Jury, and wanting Several other of the ellen tial forms of a court of law, their decifions *ere always private, a circumstance at once revolting to the mind of an Englifhmau, and repugnant to the practice of every Court in Weftminfter Hall. &fides, of what was this new jnrifdiaion to con. via a man ? Of an undefined crime. Bribery was a crime, and punithable as fuch at common law, but what was Trostimg P Could any body define ? Was it a cheerful entertainment at an elec tion ? Was it a glafs of ale, or any refrefitment adminiftered to a voter on the road to the place where the election wet. to take place, when he was hot and covered with dug or dirt ? And who were to be the witnefes to convict: a feared Member of having been guilty of Treatigg ? The electors themfelves, aauated by all the heat and prejudice that a contefted election never failed to imprefs their minds with. His Lordthip reafoned upon the 4 considerations with great acutenefs and Itrength of argument, putting the pollible cafe of the witneffei, on whole evidence a perlon was conviEleti by a Sclea Committee of the Houk of Commons, being afterwards conviaed of having been guilty of perjury in giving that very evidence. Where and how was the incapacitated Member to obtain hi. remedy, if the evidence before a Se. lea Committee of the Houle of Commons were 'to he declared conclusive and final. Earl Roma sr Paid, he had been a Member oldie oth e r Houle for many years, and hrd often been on the &lea Committees to try elections. That be could bear teflimony to the Upiightnefs and equity of their proceeding . ; on their overflow, and thought that the Houfe in paving voted themfelves improper to hold the power of decidinion Elections. had done themfelves the higheft honour. His Lordfnip iaiJ, that notwitliftanding what had fallen from the noble and learned Lord on the Woolfack, and the noble and learned Lord next bins, he mud thir.k that a Bill which came fmm the Houfe of Commons, and the objea of which turned up regulations relating to the Eleaion of their own Members, was entitled to every poGbk refpea and attention in that Houfe, and he mull concur with the noble and learned Lord oppolite to him (Lord. Alranley), that there wanteiffome Bill like the r i dint, in order to render the deci. tuns of fele& CenTinittees o; the Hoak of Com. ' moos uniform, for nothing could be more nrijufi than that there &odd be one law for Thetford and another for Norwich, Canterbury, and a petty Cornifh Borough oughr to have their conceited Ele&ions dccided by one and the Came Law. The Marquis of ' Byes INGHAM rofe to fay a few words in defence of a Bill which had been one of the laft acts of a long and ufefid life of a near re lation of his (his Lordfhip's own father). He Paid the conftitution of Seidl Committees had been formed with the utmoil precaution and jealotify. Their powers were limited, and every poilible guard placed around the exercife of them. It be- came, therefore, a confideration of great moment, whether a firuiture of fo much delicacy Ihould be touched at all or not ? He dreaded any attempt at extending the powers of that Bill to which he alluded, lea ate beer objects of it fhould fuller. He complimented his noble and learned Friend near him (Earl Rofslyn) on his having more than any man proved himfelf the fincere friend of that Bill. He had been the father of its being rendered a permanent law. He agreed, his Lordfbie Paid, with his noble and learned Friend, that treating was an undefined offence. His noble and learned Friend had eked if it was a glafs of ale handed to an elector in the way to the place of eleCtion ? He would put the ilrongett poffible cafe : Was it a glafs of wine handed to an elector by a Peer, who, not by any legiflative law, but by a refolu tionof the Houfe of Commons, was reftrained from interfering in Eleßions ? is Lordfhip con curred with Lord Rofslyn and the Lord Chancel lor in feveral other points, and concluded a fpeech of fome length, with declaring that, as an enemy to the principle of the Bill, he Ihould objet to the Bill's going to a Committee. Lord ELLENDoaoucH ftrenuoully defended the prefent Bill, contending that it gave no new power to the Wed Committees of the Hoare of Com- 1 mons, neither did it extend their jurifdiCtion one iota. His noble and learned Friend near him had complained, as well as the Noble Marquis, that treating was an undefined crime. The prefent Bill did not Rate the whole of the Act of King William, which he had referred to and read that morning; and, if any other of their Lordfhips would take the trouble to refer to it, they would fee in the margin againft one of the clatifes the words „ giving money and great treating."— Now, giving money was a criminal ad that compre heniled every fpecies of bribery, and great treating was fomething more than the mere handing of a glafs of ale to an Elettor. His Lordfhip laid con fiderable arefs on the right of the Houfc of Com mons to regulate the election of their own Mem bers, and to empower their Select Committees to decide upon a tight to a feat, and the impropriety of a Member convicted before a Committee, cf bribery and treating, being allowed " to go out at one door and immediately return through the other," as his noble and learned Friend (Lord Alvanley) had ftyled it ' • and concluded with ex fling a hope that the Houfe would fuller the Bill to go into the Committee, and to dircu fi it when it fltould be in a more pedeft fhape, after the neceffary amendments fhould have hem made in it. Lord Pecnam deprecated the argument, that becaufe the Bill came from the Houfe of Commons and referred to the trial of the right to the feats of their own Members, their Lordthips were not entitled to give it a full and free difcuffion. He would affert the contrary doarine, and mull ac knowledge himfelf adverfe to the Bill. During the whole time that he had fat in the Houfe, he had looked with jestingly on every Bill, he obje4t of which was the difqnalification of a Member to be eleaed after having loft his feat. He conceived that the true intent and meaning of Mr. Grenville's Bill was to inveft the Selea Committees with the power of deciding upon the right to the feat in the fpecial Eletion contefted before them, and nothing more. Entertaining that fentiment, he fhould vote againft the Bill's going into a Committee. The queftion was then put, 4 , That the Houfe do now refolve itfelf into a Committee of the whole Houfe on this Bill." The Hoare divided—Contents 6 ; Not Contents 7. Lord ALYANLEY then moved. "That this Houle will on Tuefday next refolve itfelf into a Commit tee of the whole Houle on the laid Bill." Nega tived without a divifion. The LORD CHANCELLOR immediately moved a Thin this Eill be related." The Houle divid edtents 6 ; Not Contents 7.—Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. On etc motion of Mr. &toners, the Weft India Dock Bill was ordered to be recommitted to a private Committee. Mr. Alderman Come prefented a Petition from the Sugar Coopers of Londoo,againft a certain Claufc irl the Sugar Draw back Bill.--Referred to the Committee on the [aid 818, and onlered that Cgonfol &odd be beard for and againft the kid Petition. Mr. A 'NW ARI NO brought up tbeßeports . of the Commit tees on the Petitions from the Parilltloners of St. Aan's and St. Margaret's, Weftininfter, praying aid for the repairs of their rcfpodive Churches.--Ordered to lie on the Table. Ordered. on the motion of Lord Gig nagavia, that an Ad. drefs fbould be preilancd to his Malefty, praying, Ste. that there should be laid before the Houle a Bateman oldie proceedings of the Commilioners appointed under the Ad for the tale and redemption of the Land Tam Mr. ALZIANDRZ brought up the Report of the Cotrpnittee of Supply.--Read and agreed to. The Committee on the Volunteer Service Bill was deferred to Tuelday next. Mr. A r.ZZAND/It brought op the Report of the Committee on the Lettery Bill.--Agreed to, with fonts Cbulls propored by Mr. VAN.ITTAILT, aad the Bill was ordered to be road a third time to-morrow. MILITIA. The SECRETARY at Wait moved the third read ing of the Englith Militia Bill. Mr. B. Cooke objefted to the increafe of the Militia, as unneccffiary, and creating an ureters ex pence. The Bill before the Houfe was alto objec tionable, becaufe it would put all chiles of the community too much on a level, arid he was afraid that under fuch a Bill, and from the experience we had had, it would be very dif f icult to provide officers properly qualified, in confequence of their liability to be volunteered for the army ag , ainfi their will." The SECRETART at WAR regretted that the ob jeftions of the Hon. Gentleman had not been ,urged in an earlier Rage of the Bill, as they were bustile to its prinsipic, and indeed to the whole fyfterit of the Militia, inch had from immemorial ufage placed all ranks of people as much on a level as the prefent Bill did. As to the pronfed num ber of the Militia, the taffies (!f that inct cafe had been already fufficiently explained to the Houfe, and therefore he fhould not then repeat them ; 'Le number was not, in fa& greater than when that corps was actually difembodied. In the sear 1756 a Bill was carried in the Commons, and only re jeded by a (mall majority in the Lords, in which the number mentioned was 60,000, and from hit: tory it would be feen that they amounted to that number in the reign of Charles the Second : when !therefore, the increafed population of the country fince theie periods, and the peculiar circumilances of the prefent times, were taken into confideratiou. Gentlemen could not be furprifed at the augmen tation of our Militia, as fettled in the Bill before! the Houfe. A report had gone abroad, that it was intended in future to recruit the Army from the Militia, but he could affure the Honfe that no fuch idea was entertained by his Majelty's Mini tiers, and certainly no fuels intention appeared on the face of the Bill. Perhaps this report had ori ginated from the circumilances of the expedition to Holland,but that was an emergency in which Gen tlemen thought it necelfary tcerefort to extraordi nary exertion : and Parliament thought it wife to' fandion the proceeding with refped to the Militia which had been in often complained of, at • ! he had no doubt that in afimilar exigency and under equal difficulties, the Legiflature would be not lea for ward to fecond the efforts of the State for the in wefts and fecurity of the Empire. He did not deny that there wasa feeling of reludance among the of ficer of the Militia upon that occafion, but as an of ficers of that corps, he might be permitted to fay that be thought that feeling, in fuck circum fiances, was carried rather too far. The Hon. Gentleman ex preffed his apprehenfion, that there would be much difficulty in providing officers for an increafed num ber of Militia : that apprehenfion, however, could not be felt for a moment by any perfon that re colleded the facility with which properly qualified officers were to be found for the Supplementary Corps, though fo numerous ; and he trufted, that while a fenie of patriotifm exiaed among the Gen tlemen of the country, they would be ever for. ward to keep alive that military fpirit, upon which the fecurity of all that we polfeffed fb materially depended.—He had therefore very little fear of a fcarcity of officers. The Bill was palled and ordered to the Lords. ALIENS. The ATTORNEY GENERAL rote to more for leave to bring in a Bill to repeal the feveral Ads upon this fubjea, for the purpofe of fubftitnting other provifions in their room ; among which the Right Hon. Gentleman Rated, that every Alien should, on his arrival in this country, apply to a Magif trate of the port at which he arrives, from whence he fhould receive a certificate, upon explaining his objca in coming to this country, and the place of his deftination. Mr. M. A. TAYLOR hoped that Government had taken care to have fome underflanding that thic Bill would not produce any ill.will on the Conti nent, as it would be much better to allow Aliens to come into the country, w;thout any rettraint, than to endanger the peace. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEVER was per kily fure there was nothing in the principle or in the provitions of the Bill his Right Hon. Friend propofed to introduce, that could produce the ef feet alluded to by the Hon. Gentleman, an dial which no man in that Houle, or in the country, would deprecate more than he would.—The mo tion was agreed to. POLICE. The ATTORN EY GENERAL then moved for leave to bring in a Bill to repeal the fevcral Ads rcfpetft ing the Police, in order to fobaitute other prayi lions in their acad.—Among the alterations in tended, he faid, it was propofed to add to the number of the Conftables, and to augment the pay of the fuperintcnding Magiarates. Mr. WI LB ISITORCI willed that the propofed ad dition to the Conflables lhould not be fmall, and that the allowance to the Magiftrates ihould be fufficient.—The motion was agreed to. The ATTORNEY GEN I NAL moved, that the Houfe fhould to-morrow refolve into a Committee on the thirty-ninth of his prefent Majeay, relative to Po lice, to confider the propriety of defraying out of the Confolidated Fund, if neceffAry, the expence of the offices eftablifhed under the faid a 1, in the counties of Middlefeit and Surry.—Ordered. CONTROVERTED ELECTIONS. The Houle refolved itfelf into a Committee on the Controverted Elution Bill, _ _ _ Mr. Bouts propofed an amendment, that the words " the nominees thereto" fhould be left out. He flitted, (that this admiflion of nominees on Elation Committees was originally introduced by the framers of the Grenville Aft, rather as a matter of neceffity than choice, in order to avert the °Wades which it was attempted to throw in the way of its adoption. It was thought defirable by fome to provide, that fome perfons of legal knowledge Ihould always be or. thole Committees, and the parties were accordingly authorifed each to choofe a friend. Thus a perfon was chofen at once as the judge and the friend. He would afk, was there a Member of that Houk who would like to he placed in fuch a Stuation ?—or was it probable that any man could at in fuch a capa city, entirely free from the influence of private friendfhip and party fpirit ? Thole words, he re marked, were omitted in the Irilh Aft on this rub jeet, and from experience it appeared that the Iriflt Parliament ailed wifely. Mr. M. A. TAYLOR thought the amendment propofed had better be made thelubjed of a re parate Bill, in order that it might be fully dif cuffed. For his part, he was not inclined to adopt t he fentiments of the Hon. Gentleman, becaufe he h a d known very falutary effects to have arifen from the arrangement he complained of, and had often feen nominees vote againft their friends. Mr. Wibasaroacsrpoke infavour of the amend ment, which this was the bell time to introduce. Mr. BRAGOR expreired hirnfelf adverfe to it. Si JAMES SINCLAIR alfo orTored it. The CIIANCELLOS OF THE LEClif vast thought the adoption of fuch a claufe would convey an i.r. merited imputation on thole uho had aeted as Ile minces in former Can:lli:tees. After Come further converfation, the (pettier was called for, and ttranger! ordered to withdraw, ; whert there appealing to ha only 35 111a:Ii:ers pre. fent, the Houfe adjourned. LONDON. FRIDAY. MAY 21. PRICE OF STOCKS THIS DAY AT ONE O'CLOCK t 3 pctC. Cour money. 74F—for 3 CC°Unt, 74it. 4 per Celt. ispi--Q2d 5 [Mr C 021 -••••NCI/ 5 per Cent. LOA °militia, . PRICE OF STOCKS YESTERDAY. 3 per Ct. R:d. 73; I t Short Ann. 3 Per et Cont. 741 74•1 I mIL 3 Pa Cent. 7riti 4 per Cent. 89i Insp. Attn. 11 is-t 6 11 3 pr' C. A. unt i l.. Ezcheq. Bills is. pr n. ts. dS 5 per C. A. 1797 103 i OUITAUM /i zi t Long Ann. zot 13-16 Con[. Juttoun• 754 76ff The accounts through circuitous channels from St. Domingo are fo contradidory, that it is hardly poilible to reconcile them ; and indeed, it is hardly poiEble that difpatches of any recent date can have been received through either Martinico or Antigua. On the whole, however, the fludied.filence of the French Journals may be confidered as an acknow. lodgement, that affairs are not in the molt pronai. fing fituation in St. Domingo. We have it now in our power, however, to give fome particulars that come through an authentic channel. The Perfeverance, Captain STATER S, EX. rived at Dover, (poke on the 16th the PrincefsAme lia packet, from the Wed Indies, who, on her par: (age (poke a French fquadron from St. Domingo for France, which informed the Captain that the French wen nee in fall force there to quell the infw. gents. Whether the fquadron codified of empty tranf ports, or was tarrying back the troops, is not flitted, When we recoiled, however, that the army had fent to Admiral DucawoaTH for a fupply of pro vifions .and camp equipage, which he could not afford them, we fhould not be furprifed, if a part at leaft, were returning for the preferip—But it if molt probable that the !hips were returning for the purpofe of carrying out more troops. By the Ramburgh Mail, which arrived this morning, we learn, that a new project has been formed in regard to a provifion for the Princes of the gotzfe of Bourbon of the French line : they are, it is faid, to receive eaves in Poland, and France is to enter into an immediate negotiation on that fubjea with the Courts of Vienna, Berlin, and Peteriburgh. This morning we received the Paris Journals of the 17th and ;13th init. The molt important of the contents may be fummed up in a few words. Slavery is to be re-eftablifbed by law in the French Weft India Colonies! and the Slave Trade is to be permitted ! ! What a change in France ! We now hear the Orator of Government fpeaking of the Wiwi: of Lion, and &poky! We !hall not. dwell on the fubjed at prcfent, having fubjoined the fpeech at length.--Tiers Corfoldi 56 f. 6o c. Past's, May 18.—A letter from Antwerp, dat. ed May 10, jsys, " Twelve of the principal com mercial honks at Brunets, are forming the arrange ments neceffary for eftablifhing houfes in our city. Several American families from ;he United States have lately arrived here, alfo with an intention of fettling. We learn on the other hand, that one of the firlt merchants in London will fend hither one of his fons to form a houfe of correfpondenee be tween England and the north, of Germany in par. titular. The city of Antwerp becomes, therefore, every day snore flourifhing. The houfes have al ready rifen triple in value. The Scheldt is cover ed with merchant 'edits of different nations, which daily arrive with rich cargoes. In the courfe of this year, workmen will begin to clear the port, and to remove the bar, which confines the courfe of the river." In the Sitting of the Legislative Body, Floreal 27, (May 17), Prefidency of RABAUT, junior. the Connie Hors of State, Dueur, BRUII, and DassocLis were introduced, being charged with prefenting a projet of a law, refpeaing the Colo• nies reftored to France by the Treaty of Amiens, and the other French Colonies. Durnv.-.0 Citizens Legiflators—the Treaty of Amiens having reftored to France feveral impor tant Colonies, Government thinks it neceffary to propofe to you a Law, without which this ftipula tion, advantageous as it is, would be only a fource of new difafters, and of the grearefi evils. At the moment when we are about to take poffzillon of Martinique, St. Lucia, Tobago, and our eilablifh ments in India, it is a matter of urgent neceility that we should infpire the planters with confidence. —lt is worthy of your folicitude, as well as of that of Government, to efface, by a precife and folemn difpofition, the fears which unfortunate experience has too fully junified. The fate of the colonies, indeed, has been long an object of gene ral converfation, and every body knows how much they have fufFered. It is well known how the illuiont of lilerty and equality Lave km propagok.l in MO &pot tour:vies, where the remarkable diffe rence between man in th c civilized and uncivlli7cO I ,