Star. — London, England, 1801-02-20 00:00:00

... \ ronly get off at a particular time of the tide.' der there circumftances, if the enemy had been allowed to recover from their firft impreffion °fez peaing an attack, and had been prepared to fol low us on our retreat, Ii conceive that whatever other advantages our troops may have polfeffed, we could not have effetted it without considerable lots, perhaps the ruin of the rear guard. Thefe confi %tend ons left me no , choice in the line of condua I was to purfue ; but as they could not be in the contemplation of the other Officers of ei ther fervice, who raw no reafon why the at tempts fhould not at leaft be tried, and who knew that we had fuceeeded as far as it bad beck tried, it is not unnatural that met; of high fpirit and sanguine difpofitions thould feel difimpointment, and be diipofed to impute blame. The Hon. Gentleman has talked of the difference and the difputes which exißed between the army and navy employed in the fervice. Of that difcord, I confers I never heard before. He has thought proper to cenfure my condua in land-' ing my whole force in the firit inftance, when 2000 men would have been fuffieient to afcertain how far the Elate of the garrifon rendered my at tempts upon it wife or pradicable—but it furely would have been a strange fpecies of generalfhip to hazard zOOO men in a country, when none could be afforded, without having tome idea of the force of the enemy they might have to en counter. The Hon. Gentleman's affertion, that the Officer of Engineers was excluded the Council has not the ilighteft foundation in faCt—that Offi cer was prefent at the Council of War which I af fembled. With regard to the reported facility with which that fort might have been taken, that Officer's opinionwas deadedlyagainft the attempt. What a gallant Officer might have done if he had not been wounded, I cannot pretend to judge of, but if the exploit particularly expeeted from him was the capture of the.village of Grana, there were other officers by whom that village was taken polfctrion of, and they found none of thofe gores or arfenals with which the Hon. Gentleman had been taught to think it abounded. • The Hon. Gentleman has talked in high terms of the fix cefs of the troops, certainly we landed fafely, and with inconfiderable lots approached the heights which are faid to have commanded the town ; but it was the opinion of the Officer of Engineers, whofe opinion deferved every deference on fuch a • fubjeft, that we derived no advantage from the polliffion of thofe heights, and that cannon placed upon then could do no execution on the fortifica tions of Ferrol, from which they were at a great dittance. The Hon. Gentleman has dwelt upon the bravery of the 52d regiment: I have no .objeilion to acknowledge their fpirit and gal lantry ; but of their exclaiming with three cheers .their ardour to march to the attack of Ferrol, .was quite ignorant till now. As to the variety of offers which the Honourable Gentleman had Rated to have been made on that occafion, they were, if made at all, kept a perfea feetet from me, and as to the redoubt which was propofed to be taken by one of their offers, I am now at a lofs to know where it was ; I am Pure there was no fuch redoubt to be Peen. The converfation of the tailors with the privateer I (hall pats by—the murmurs of the Army, that they had loft an opportunity of making their fortune by the capture of Ferrol, does not furprife me : perhaps their difcontent on that ;core was the chief reafon of the clamour and injurious reports that have gone abroad on this fubjeCt. The reported drowning of 400 men in a tranfport, I am pal as ignorant of as the pub. lic at large, befOre the Honourable Gentleman mentioned it. Of the poffibility of taking Belle ifie, with other opinions advanced in the letters read by the Honourable Gentleman, I (hall not detain the Houfe by taking any notice, though I Ihould have no objeCtion to follow the Honourable Gentleman Rep by Rep : and I hope that if any other Gentleman, in the course of the Debate, thould mention any new reports, the Houfe will grant me the indulgence of obfcrving upon them. I have taken up much of the time of the Houk, but I beg to fay one word more, which I hope will he confidered neither as trefpaffing too much on their indulgence, nor as any thing improper in me to mention— [a :aural cry of hear! bear!]—By accidents which perhaps no human prudence could forefee, and in which neither his Majefty's Minifters, the Admiral, or myfelf, had the finalleft blame, I was difap pointed on my arrival at Ferrol of intelligence which I had confidently expeCted, and on which I had depended, in a great meafure, for our future operations. I (hall further add, that, as far as I am enabled to judge upon that head, his Majelty's Min:fters were, in the then Rate of the war, perfeet ly jullified in employing the body of troops which ' they had placed under my command, in the man ner in which they wereemployed, and in giving me the inftruCtions under which I acted. I was undoubt edly apprifed, before my departure, of the inform ation which had been received upon the fubjea of Ferrol, and though that information did not prove to be correlt, there was, in my opinion, upon the face of it fuch rational ground - of hope, as juflified the enterprize fo far as it was intended to be pufhc.l, and under all the circurnftances of the campaign. I have taken up too much of the time of the houfc—[a c.y .f beer! beer I]-1 (ball therefore conclude, only begging to fay, that not withltanding the outcry wlocli has been made, and all the obloquy to which my condutt has been ex poled, from the Aippofed batty re-embarkation of the troop, I I :are never felt a moment's regret on that ICCOMit. Even if I had not been fupported by the opinions of the General Officers—if the enemy had publifhed no accounts, confirming any ftatement, and if the quellion had not been Poch, and brought to fo (bort an ilfue, that Mili tary Men may decide upon it, now or at any fu ture period; even, I fay, if ibefe circumflances had not trifled, 1 thould have felt confcions of has ing done my duty—and I mutt further fay, I thrai:J have thought myfelf uuworthy of the fituatioa in which I Lid the honour to be placed, if after making up my mind upon the (obits, I had, with a 44mv to my own repatat:un. or to convince the army and the world of the neceffity of what I found myfelf compilled to do, been guilty of hazarding Lc an hour the (day classy part of my corps, or throwing away ufelefsly the life of a fingle man under my command. Mr. JEKYLL raid, his Hon. Fricnl (Mr. Stir?) deferved thanks for having brought forward th.: prefent motion ; and he was alfo entitled to the thanks of the Hon. General, who was furni flied with an opportunity of making a defence as fatisfaCtory to every perfon who heard it, as it mutt be ho nourable to himfelf. But, while the Hon. Gene ral acquitted himfelf from 411 manner of imputa tion, he brought forward the leveret and heavielt charges againft his Majefty's Minifters, who had fent him out upon an expedition, without plan, projed, cr information. But after having planned and aCted upon all thefe ufelefs proses, the Minifters came down as mere men of draw : They might, indeed, tell the Houfe, that a day would come when they ihould give a full account of their conduct ; but in two or three days time they would come down to the Houfe, and fay they were no longer refponfible, becaufe they were no longer Minifters. The manner in which this expedition terminated was a ftain upon the British name and the Britifh chara&er; and Minifters could never juftify themfelves for running the rifle of wafting the effeftive force of the country, and for lavifhing fo much blood and treafure. If they were not now made refponfible for the Expedition to Ferrol, no refponfibility could ever be expeeted to attach to future Minifters. Mr. Secretary Dusting obferved, that the Learned Gentleman who kilt fat down appeared to be equally regardlefs of what had fallen from the Hon. over of the queltion, and from the Hon. General. The former fated it to have been the opinion of both naval and military men, that the Expedition was perfeetly pratlicable, and might have been attended with fuccefs ; which opinion, if true, roof completely removed all manner of blame from chore Minifters who had planned it. If therefore the Hon. Gentleman laid the fault upon Minifters, he mutt have abandoned all the great authorities quoted by the Hon. Mover, Sind acknowledged that no difference of opinion had exitied between the naval and military Officers employed in this fervice. For his own part, he I was glad to find the matter take this turn ; becaufe he feared that there might have been a breach between both theft (cranes, which would be high ly injurious to the country. If any inquiry on this fubjedi was at all neceffary, might there not be found a more proper place fur inflituting it than in the Houfe of Commons ? But accol-ding to the Learned Gentleman's ftatement, the Houle was not any longer to confider it as a military in quiry ; for all the charges and the clamour again(' the Commanding Officer were now dropped and converted into an attack againft Minifters, for their want of forefight in fending out fuch a fnfitlefs ex pedition. But while the learned Gentleman was making thefe attacks againft Minifters,he feemcd to forgot what had fallen from the Hon. General,when he laid that he had been furnifhed with all the in formation which could poffibly be obtained,fuch as completely juttified him in making the attack, and furnithed him with rational hopes Of fuccefs. He clerked therefore that the learned Gentleman would not loofely a Wert that his Majefty's Mini tiers had fent out an Expedition without fuflicient in formation. AU thefe were fine words ; they were all prepared before even he heard the Hon: Gene ral's defence ; and he came down to the Houfe determined at all events to lay the whole blame on his Majefty's Minifters. Mr. Dundas then Paid that he had no manner of objeeion to fate to the Houfe the grounds and the objea of the Expedition; he would candidly avow that the Armament which had been fitted out in the earlier part of the 'aft campaign was not defined for Ferrol, but was in tended for the accomplifhment of a very different purpofe. Let it not therefore be Paid that the at tack made by thisforce on Ferrol was attended with any expence, beeaufe the expence of the Armament would have been the fame, whether the attack was made or not. It had been the earneft with and intention of Minifters to employ a great force in loch a way as might be belt calculated to co. operate with the Allies of Great Britain, who were at that time fighting on the Continent. His Majefty's Government had received communica tions from the Allies, that the greateft advantages might be expeBed to follow their efforts, by cauf ing the enemy's force to be divided, and that might be done by making diverfions in various places, by threatening to invade them, and by railing alarms on different parts of their coatis. The enemy might thus be compelled to appropriate a pat t of their force to the proteeion of their coatis, which Mould be much greater than any force that this country might employ for that purport-. Certainly the Nile was the place from winch it was intended that the greateft part of there operations ffiould be carried on. But at the fame time it was in tended that familia operations Ihould be carried on from Minorca, Gibraltar, and other places in the Atlantic and the Mediterranean. A fcene of fatal reveries had, howtver,fruftrated there views. The vieories gained by the enemy in Germany, the ge neral inadaivity which afterwards prevailed on the Continent, and finally, the battle of Marengo, pre vented thole plans originally projeaed from being carried into Sift.('. What wasto be done under there circumfances? This country found its interests threatened in two ways—in the firli place, an at tack appeared to be meditating againft Portugal, on the part of Spain and France; and at the fame time was perceived the firti dawning of that Mari time Confederacy which had fince been formed in the North of Europe. To guard againft on: of thefe evils, it was thought that a confiderable part of that force which atfirft had been defined for other purples, might be very ukfully em ployed in defending Portugal againft any at tempts on the part oi Spain, and that this could not be done in a better way than by attacking Spain on her own crafts. It was impollible that any thing could lead more effectually to the AC comprifhment of this objet, than that of tai.ing away the Spanilb (tips that were at Ferrol and Ca diz. The only line that Miniliencould have par fired on fuch an occafion, was to lay the informa tion received by them concerning the fate of the force at Ferrol before the Generals, who were In, take the fubjefi into confideration, and give their I opinion as to the pra.'ticabilit y a ttu t k agaraA that place. They were furninted whit fuch infur• mation as afforded rational hopes of ftfecefs ; and that was as much as could be expeded. But if any Gentleman could accufe Minifters With having direded fuch an attack to be made at all hazards and at all rilks, whether it was likely to be fucceff ful or not—in that cafe he admitted that Minifiers were highly culpable. No fuch thing appeared, and it would be highly unjuft to impute blame to chafe who had direded an expediuon, which, if fuccefsful, would have produced the molt impor tant advantages; and which, though nnruccefsfid, was an expenment they were perfon fly julhficd in trying. The plan was not only communicat ed to the Honourable General whom henow raw in his place, but to that great and diltinguifhed officer Lord St. Vincent, who then had the com-. mand of the Channel Fleet : both of thcfe approv ed of the plan ; and the accounts he had received from them both, rendered him more confidentithan he had been before as to the fucccfs of the under taking. The Hoisfe would therefore perceive from his flatement that the real objet of this Expedition was—that it was an etperiment left to the difcretion of an officer, with a full confi dence that each difcretion would be exercifed with that manly gallantry, that zeal and ability, which belonged to him as a foldier from his earlieft life. Upon there grounds he would refill the enquiry. Mr. HORNE TOOKE rote and fpoke in favour of the Enquiry.—ln fupporting the motion (faid he). which has been made by my Honourable Friend, I am about to do that which no doubt is frequently done in this Houfe, for I am about to facriffee my intereft to my duty. Surely, Sir, the Houk will never trouble themfelves about Old Sarum and its Member, they will never enter into an enquiry about whether a prieft is or is not worthy of a feat? if they refufe a Committee of Enquiry upon this great queflion, which involves the honour of the nation. In what I am going to obferve, like wife, 1 even facrifice my willies to the caufe of truth, for it will not be fuppofed that I am prompted by inclination when I undertake the de fence of the Right Honourable Gentleman who has jolt fat down. This queffion, when firfi brought forward, teemed to be wholly of a mili tary nature; but the Honourable General, in the courfe of his long flatement, has made it plain, and fuel' as every man is qualified to decide upon. —ln this Houfe, Sir, I have obferved thatit is of advantage to men individually to have connetions. It is of advantage often to the public, however, that they thould have none. On both fides of the floufe men are influenced by them, and a regard to them frequently prevents the full inveffigation and the nnreferved difcuffion of a fubjeEt. From their connedions and their bias I am perfectly free. One Honourable Gentleman, after admit ting that blame ezifted fomewhere ' faid, that Minifters were entirely exculpated b y the flate ment of the Honourable General who commanded the expedition. On the other hand, the Right Ho nourable Secretary, or whatever elle he may now be, juftified the Hon. General in the execution of the plan. This fort of mutual apology and de fence may do very well for the parties that are liable to accufation, but when a quellion is fo dif cuffed, truth is utterly loft fight of. Perhaps the -next Secretary of State might find it convenient to depart from both conclufions and to adopt a new line of juftification. Amielft thefe oppotite (late. merits I feel Tome embarraffinent. Though an old man, I am a young Member; yet when a difficulty occurs inthe choice aground, I think it fafelt and beat° prefer that which 'confider to bej uft and true. Some Gentlemen have expreffed their fatisfadion with the explanation which the Honourable Ge neral has given of his condull ; but it is that very explanation which induces me to think that there mull be fomething wrong in the execution of the plan. The principal authority on which the Honourable General relied his defence, was the Madrid Gazette, and a letter by which it was accompanied. The Spann Minifter of Marine, it teems, gives a free liatement of the preparations that had been made to receive the attack, the excel lent pofture of defence, of the plan, and of every thing that could exalt his own reputation for vigi lance and promptitude. But furtly Minifters mull know, too well, from their own experience, that fuch pompous accounts are not to be taken as exadly true. But confider too, whither this fpeeies of jolli fication, if admitted in favour of the Honourable General, would carry us ? Will the Houfe acqui efee in the compliments which a Spanilh Minifler choofes to pay himfell, when this would be to infer a ccnfure upon our own ? If the Miniflers of Spain had every thing in fo good a Rate of defence at Ferrol, it is clear that the Minifters of this coun try mull have been deceived in their views when they refolved on the Expedition. The houfe then mull choole whether they will acquit the Hon: General upon a defence, which, if well founded, implies that the planners of the Expedition were deficient in Mentz:nation. Betides, fuppouing a Ge. neral who a&ually had not done his duty to have been arraigned of mircondud, could he not, though guilty, have made the fame fort of defence ? Look at it; weigh it : Who arc to be the Judges of an officer's condo& ? Not the Navy, rays the Honourable General, for they could not tee the place ! Not the inferior officers, for they were do ing fomething elfe at the time. Tlru*the General is the only perfon competent to decide on the pro- priety of his own medures ; all other teffimony is rejeded. k does not appe ar t o m e t h ere f ore , that the I Honourable General has fully juftified himfelf : The Right Honourable Secretary appears to have exculpated himfelf ; but, to ckar up all doubts, let the houfe enquire. I hope, Sir, that the queftion will be carried, though if it is, the precedent may prejudice my perennial intereft in the fcqucl. lithe -Houle refute to go into a Committee of Enquiry, I repeat, with what propriety can they enterin to the merit* of the Borough of Old Sarum and its Member ? How can they plunge themfelves into enquiries and difeullions about what is. or what is not a Prieil, and whether a thirty years qu trantine is not fufficient to guard againfl the iafretion of his origivl charader. Yet, in re cr.mnreniling this line of conduß to the Houfe, I facritice my iatereft to my duty, as well as , Wave ray withcs to truth in defending the kight llonourallc the Secretary of State, a ter ♦ie* which he never has done, and I dare fay & l e y,. will do for me. Lord BeLGILAVE oppofed the motior. Sir James Pu LTENIY explained. It v. 11.1 not eor. rest he obfervcd, to fay that he had retied his de. fence folely on the Madrid Gazette. He had a?. duccd many other rounds of juilification. He h quoted the authority of the Madrid Gazettes, he caufe, after a campaign, or after a faced's, it 9,, t anal to underrate the mean by which it had 40 1 obtained. Colonel GASCOIONE conceived this to be a fut.. jea which called for inquiry, and thLiefore fhoui I vote for the motion. Mr. Ettiewt fupported the motion for inquiry; but at the fame time he thought it would have been a better mode to have referred the go:Rion to a military tribunal Mr. Pitt agreed that a Military Court was the molt proper tribunal to condos% public inveltig...-• Lions. But he could not admit that mere failures, unaccompanied by thofc circungtances that point out blame fomewhere, affords of itfelf any ground for enquiry. Enquiry could not with prudence be entered into, but when pi eflimptions were to thong as t 9 require for the livered and honret of the nation that they thould• be cleared up. It has been Rated, that doubts and reports had gone abroad, and agitate men's minds on the fubjea of the expedition. Whatever doubts Ger tlemen may have come into the Houfe with, their doubts mutt be removed by the very candid, dif. tine, and manly ftatement of the Hon. General who commanded the expedition. If it be thougl:t as it had been Rated, that the mere circumflance of the Expedition having failed was a preemption againft the Officer who conduaedit ; if it be laid that the object fhould have fucceeded, nay, that it would have fucceeded, timely it was a condo. ran that exceeds all the rapidity even of military movements, to infer that the Mi ni fters who planned the Expedition were de ficient of prudence and de tote of information in its adoption. There was in. formation enough to fatisfy the utility of the plan. Lord St. Vincent gave his fuffrage in favou r of , t . His Lordthip, who, happily for the country, this. moment accepted a fituation which no man c better qualified to fill with the fame glory and tac cefs which marked theAdminiltration of the noble and illufh ions perfon whom he fucceeds.—Mr. Pita then proceeded to vindicate himfelf and his col leagnesfrom the charge offkulkins out of office. Al though they continued to fill their refpeCtive offices as a matter of accommodation, they lhould always hold themfelves refponfible for their pail conduct ; nor did the fituation in which they flood conaitute them thofe non-dcfcripts which the Hon. Gentle man had been pleated to reprefent them. Mr. GREY obferved, that in the belt of times, it has been the practice of this Houfe to inßitute en quiries into the condo t of expeditions, both naval and military; and if the honour and intere ft of the country were involved upon this fubjea,be thought the Houfe would not do its duty if it refufed the in veftigation. He confeffed, that every thing he had heard of the Hon. Gentleman made him unwilling to fuppofe, that the honour of the country could fuffer under him; but it was clear, that the honour of the country had fuffered by this expedition, and therefore, as a friend to the lion. General, he ad vifed and l preffed for an enquiry, in ordcr to afeer tain where the blame really relied ? The Hon. General had entered into.an explanation, which he would not fay didnot jultify him : but as counter declarations had been made, an enquiry, he con. tended,was become abfolutely neeelfary. We ought to have Tome betterevidenee than that of the Madrid Gazette, and the flatement of a French agent. Th. Right Hdn. Gentleman had Rated the views- on which the force was employed. He laid, it was .e great object to create a dive:lion ; but this diver. lion was not attempted until the French had evet y where been fuccefsful ; and it was then thought. that by attacking the marine of Spain, ibmetliii,:; might be procured to be inferted in the Gazette to dazzle and deceive the people. The force ori ginally employed in the expedition confifted of t z,OOO men, who were joined, after the attack upon Ferrol, by 3000 more. With this force of 4a,000 men did we proceed againtt Ferrol, and every thing failed. We gained poffeflion of the heights, and yet returned without making an attack. The Ho nourable General had !kid, with a feeling very commendable to him, that he would norrilk the lots of lives in an attempt upon a place, when the attempt vas not likely to be fucecfsfnl. But was • it poffible for us to fee fuch a force landed, anJ come away, without futpeaing that the expedi tion WAS either abandoned precipitately, or that the information upon which Minifters proceeded was not accurate ? While fomc lay the blame up en the General, and others upoti the authors of the expedition, and Come upon buds, it was impof tible but that blame mull reft fomewhere. We had teen a large misty, efcorted by a large fleet, and we had teen it come away withoutdning any thing. After arguing thequeftion in a variety ot Mapes, Mr. Ores. concluded by giving his :taint to the motion. Earl Terms was of opinion that blame at tached Ibmewhere with rdpect to this Expedition. The naval and the military affiitance was great. The Houfe had heard the Honourable General ; but, without meaning to cart the 'flight& re flection upon him, they had only heard one fide. His Lordthip therefore was for an inquiry. Mr. Deer alfo fupported the Motion. General Lorrus Paid a few words. Mi. PIFRILEPOSIT, in a fhort IPeech, fupported the Enquiry. Sir James PULTESET Paid in explanation, thitt his Corps when it landed confdled of 9300 effec tive men; that the reinforcement which arrived was t7oo or tBOO, ea thin the whole might fairly be called a Corps of 11,opo men. Mr. STUAT replied. The Houfe then divided : For the motion, 75 Againft it, ta4. Adjourned, at half pall eleven o'clock. LONDON Printed for the Proprietors. by JOHN DANIEL, (of Carnal,.ftreet) at the SI AC Parnell' tit-Or r tea No. t. Carey-Meet ; and pubtilbed by LIVRI. REM' ' (0 Cas te:bury-place, Lambeth), at No. 1. Carerareet , and at the STA -OFFICE, TCSIDIC-ikt 4 t wtiet Mire all mom* =lotu for the lisrros sts ' , quilled to Ds sitlrclisil i~ ~~