Star. — London, England, 1805-04-05 00:00:00

PIRLIAMENT,4Rr PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OP LORDS. THURSDAY, APRIL 4. Connie! were farther heard relative to the Scots Appeal, Cath cart, Bart the Earl of CaiGltis, viz. Mr. Adam, in continuation, as Leading entinfei for the Refpondent. Farther confideration of the cafe deferred till Monday. A number of Bill+, chiefly private, or Return Bills,were brought up fro,. the Commis, by Sir J. W. Anderfun, Mr. Pierrepoiut, and Mr. Cite,. The ;read AfGze Bill wag prefented by Sir J. W. Anderfon. On the motion of the Earl of Surrocz, the recent Letter of Lord Vikount Melville to the CommilTionera of Naval Enquiry was ordered to be laid hef”re th e Houk. The Bills upon the table were forwarded in their rdpedive Rages. Ain the mafiosi of the (could reaeing of Bowyer's Lottery Bill, Lord Et-L[IEIIOEOEICH made a few obfervations : though he was by no mesas favourable to the general Mociple of Lotteries; yet, under the circunittances of the cafe, the prefent Bill was one which might, without much !Alt of injurious confequences, be af- Caned to by their Lordfhips. Earl SPENCER faid af. w words. And, after fame remarks from L..r.1 WA LSINOUAM, of a tendency favolsrable to the meafure,fhe Hiil was read a fecond time, and ordered to be referred to the confideration of a Commi,ter. The Bills recently Iprought up from the Commons were then feverally mad a firit time. Refpedting that for regulating the Maze of IlreAd ; The Earl of Sur rink remarked it was one worthy of the molt &rictus art/union of their Lordfhips; it was well known that Bread was ecmilltkrably cheaper in the country than in the metropolis; and that grrat quantities of Bead were brought into London by Means of Rage coaehe., machium, &c. Lord A ue - acawn gin notice of a motion refptding the cafe of Judge FoL CATHOLIC PFTITION. Lord G RENVI LLE moved ,that the Lords fhould be fummoned for the Loth of May, as he would have a propoli:ion to fubmit to them on that day, refpat ing the Petition on the table, from certain of his Ma jay's Catholic fubjeas of Ireland. Lord AUCKLAND obferved, that it was ufual for any Noble Lnrd, who moved that the Houfe (hould be fummoned for a particular day, to explain the general nature of the population which he meant to fubmit to the Houfe. Lord GRENVILLE anfwered, that it was his in tention, at prefent, without pledging himfelf not to change the form of his motion, if circumftances fhould render it need:try, to move on the day for which he defired their Lordfhips fhould be fummoned. that the Houfe fhould refolve itfelf into a Committee on the lubjeCt of the Petition which he had preCented to their Lordfhips. Strangers were ordered te withdraw for Come time during which their Lordfhips were engaged in hear ing evidence on a breach of the orders of the Houfe, by a coachman of Lgrd St. Afaph. STANDING 011DIRS. Lord MULGRAVE was on his legs (when aran- Fere were readmitted) for the purple of withdrast - tog. for the prefent, the notice he had given on Tuef day, of a motion for expunging one of their Lord fhips' orders. This produced a fhort converfation between the Marquis of Sligo, Lords Fitzwilliam and Grenville, and the Chancellor, which terminated by the motion being acceded to. On the Order of the Day for the fecond reading of the Bill, for allowing the purchafe of Advowfons by the two Univerfities, Lord HAW KESBURY wilhed, that as the Bill involved a quellion of confiderable delicacy, the Learned Prelate who propofed it, would confent, in order to allow time for further deliberation, to poll pone the fccond reading until the 26th of April. The Bufhop of OXFORD had no objettion to en ter upon the difkutßon of the principle of the Bill at any time it fhould feem proper to their Lordfhips.— He had reafon to believe, that he fhould be able to prove to their Lordihips, that it WAS a meafure extremely neceirary, and unattended with any of the difadvatages which were apprehended as likely to refult from it. Lord GRENVILLE profeAd himfelf friendly to the fyllem of mixed church patronage, and thought the Bill one very proper to be fubmitted to the judg ment of the Houfe. The EArl of SUFFOLK wifhed to embrace that opportunity of pteferring his claim to endeavour to draw the attention of the Houle, when that Bill fhould come to be difcuffed, to the iniferable fituation of that deferving dais of men, the Curates. He had received many letters on that fubjed, which he would communicate to their Lordlbips on that occafion, without, however, divulging the names of thole by whom they were written ; and it was not improbable but he would receive many more. Indeed, he would acknowledge, that he intended the obfervation he made as a kind of alueriyinsent to all the fufferers of that cl ifs to addrefs him on the fubjed of the grie vances they laboured under. Lord Hawcasautty's propofltion was agreed to. . . A (bort converfation took place between Lords DARNLEY and MELVILLE, refpeaing the praltice of the Houle on a queaion of order, arifing out of a mo tion made by the fira noble Lord, for certain Nav'al Papers, MILITIA DILL. The order of the day for the fecond reading of the Militia Bill being read, Lord HAW K ES BURY entered upon the detail of all-the meathres of defence which had preceded the prefent Bill. The neceflity of a large difpofable force had been admitted on all fides of the Houfe, and there was no readier, no leis burthenfome, or no lefs expenfive mode of procuring it, than that fuggelled in the Bill before their Lordlbips. The gradual re duaion of the Militia Eltablititment from 6o to 40,000 men had been acceded to by their Lordfhips, in the laft Setlinn, and he could forefee no inconveni ence in haftening the operation of that principle ; Ili. Lordfhip concluded with moving that the Bill be read a fecond time. The Marquis of BUCKINGHAM oppofed the mt•tion. The principle of the Bill was heither more nor lea than the meditated deflruaion of the Militia ; that truly conliituttonal force was to be annihilated, for the purpofe of creating an uncoil- Ritutional force at its ezpence ; for fuck, he would contend, a permanent ft , rnding army to he. upon all thofe views which our fathers were wont to have on that fubjea. The Earl of DERBY, in a long and animated fpeech, opp fed the Bill. His Lordlbip alluded to the recent tranfattions in the Weil Indies, and con. trailed the inefficiency of the prefent Government with the mighty promifes they held forth eight months ago. The Earl of BUCKINGHAMSHIRE replied to the objections of the lall Speaker. and defended the policy of the meafure, agaiva which, be maintained, no eonaitutionat argument whatever could be urged. He requefted the Noble Earl .vonld fufpend, for a (hort time, his cenfure of the Government, refpeCt ing what he fuppofed to have taken place in the Weft Indies. He had every reafon to fuppofe, that long before this the hoftile fquadron had been op poled in thofe Peas by a force fully competent to contend with it. He alfo begged leave to affure the Noble .Earl, in anfwer to another point of accufa• lion, that the military force in that quarter was not fo inconfiderable as he conceived it to be. Govern. ment was aware of the poßibility of Come attempt, and had taken fufficieat care to he provided againft the contingency. He paid Tome warm compliments to the Noble Earl for his conduCt as Lord Lieutenant of a county, in which capacity, although Admini- Rration had not the fatisfaftion of his fupport in that Houle, he did every thing poffible to promote all thofe meafures which they employed for the benefit of the public fervice. Earls DERBY and BUCKINGHAMSHIRE fe verally explained. Lord BORINGDON expreffed his apprehenfion, that the Bill would not produce that efficient force which the framers of it fo fanguinely expelled. He was, however, a friend to the principle of increafing the difpofable force, and would, therefore, give his concurrence to the Bill. Lord CAWDOR was fully convinced, that the meafure was impolitic and unfeafonable. The late conduit of Adminiliration had greatly tended to diforganife the Militia, and what was now propofed, might, in the event, produce its utter fubverfion.— He had had Come opportunity of teeing the evil con fequences of deranging the fyflem with regard to this conftitutional force. In the rear 1799, the regi 7 ment he had the honour to command, volunteered for Ireland. When it arrived at Portfmouth, he had the mortification to fee twenty men in irons convey ed to the weflern ifland, to fupprefs rebellion, and to fupport the rights of the Britifh Monarchy. Snch was the immediate demand for that fervice, that even this was con(idered difcreet, and after filch a ttanfallion, it may be easily conceived what would be the indecency and irregularity permitted and encou raged in his own, and its other Militia Regiments, in order to induce them to embark in that expedition. —He law the difadvantage of the repetition of fuck conduit fo firongly, that he wrote to a Noble Lord in office, to learn, if it was the intention of Government to revive thefe diforders. He received for aufwer, that officially, no reply could be expelled, but that from motives of perfonalfriendfhip and refpell to him ( Lord Cawdor), he might affert, that no fuch intention el ided in his Majelly's Government. That Noble Lord had (ince formed an alliance with other col leagues, and he might perhaps fay, that he had mar ried, and that he was no longer at liberty to aft with pedal independence. This might he fatisfac tory to him, but it would not be fo to other Noble Lords, who felt themfelves aggrieved and injured by this recantation. The Earl of WEST WORELAND laid, objections were made both to the principle of the Bill Well, and to the time when it was produced. The &It objec tion was grounded on Come fuppofition, that the mea fure was unconftitutional. It was true, that the term conftitutional was applied with confiderable latitude, according to the opinions Noble Lords entertained of public meafures. By the ftatute so Gen. 11. the mi. litia was to ferve three years, and then was to be per mitted to enter into the army, or engage in any other occupation. What then could there be unconftitu tional fo dire my oppofed to the feelings of Noble Lords, as friends to the &kith Monarchy, if, after a period of two years they had the fame privilege they would enjoy at the termination of three years? Much had been ()Nailed on the ground of parochial ex pence ; but on a fair calculation, by this Bill little or I no difference would be occafioned in that refpeet ; what was thrown upon the parithes in the way of bal lot, would be counterpoifed by the relief given in refpeCt to the families of 17,000 men, who would' no longer receive the fame fupport. It had been Paid, that the Officers of the Militia almolt uni. verfally were diffatisfied with the meafuire ; and the decifion at a meeting of thirty-two Officers at St. Alban's, had been conceived to be the general expreffion of the opinions of five hundred Officers, who compofed that refpeaablt Body. This Ilite ment was wholly incorre&—no general conclufions could be drawn from fuch a circumftance ; many officers had already expreffed their concurrence, and it might be more prudent if fome others, intparticu lar fi tuations, would not be tu ft y in pro claiming their difapprobation. Lord CARNARVON laid, the only argument for the meafure was neceffity ; and we were told, that in cafes of neceffity we Mould dirpenfe with, not only all maxims of.law, all principles of policy, but all notions of common honefty. lie would contend. that by this meafure the law of the country would be violated, the policy of pall times would be abandoned, and public faith and integrity would be furrendered, and he would be bold to afFert, that no necellhy ex- Med to vindicate there aggrellions. The Noble Lord who fpoke lag, had thrown out a threat, that if per- tons in office refitted this meafure, they might find they had to lament the confequences of their own in diferetion. This menace was not confillent with that decorum fitly prefetved in that Houfe. Lord WESTMORELAND faid, the Noble Lord had entitely mifunderitood his meaning. Lead CARNARVON certainly contirued in that way the expreffions of the Noble Lord, add had he been correct in that conftruaion, he might fairly have concluded that the Noble Lord, who held an office under his Majefty's Government judged of the opinions of others by his own notions of political difcretinn. The Duke of MONTROSE felt the objections to the Bill, and was difpofed to refpee, not only the feelings, but even the prejudices of Militia Officers. It had been juttly argued that it was a meafure of neceffity, and on that ground he was inclined to Cup port it. Whatever objections might now be made by Noble Lords in the Militia fervice, he had no doubt, if it became the law of Parliament, they would be difpnfed to carry it into execution under citcum (lances moll advantageous to the country. Lord SUFFOLK, both in the Regulars, and in the Militia, had frequently feen the ferious mifchief atifing from irregularity and diforganization. Thofe who had feen the troops embark for Holland might, without the gift of prophecy, have anticipated the event of that difgraceful expedition. The troops in Egypt, which did fo much honour to the country, i were trained by a molt able and illuftrious o ffi cer, now Commander in Chief in Scotland, and by ann Cher of extraordinary merit (Sir Charles Stewart), of whole fervices the country had . been deprived by death. This was not a titre, when meafures propo fed by Minilters could be received with much confi dence ;—the misfortunes in the Eall Indies were known, and new calamities awaited us in the Weft, in confequence of the efcape of the Rochefort fqua dron, which might be attributed, juflly, perhaps to the de fi cient vigilance of the Noble Lord at the head of the Admiralty. We fhould not have had to la ment fuch a mifchance, if the gallant and illuftrious Officer, who fo lately filled that dignified fituation, had Hill exerted his talents, for the protection and glory of the Britifh N a vy. Lord CAMDEN laid, the augmentation of the army was uniformly admitted as a necefrary meafitra and the leaft inconvenient way of effetling this, was by the reduCtion of the Militia. . _ • Lord ROMNEY conceived it to be deftru&ive to the fyftem of the Militia, and jultified by no principle either of temporary expediency, or general policy. Lord CARLISLE Paid, Minillers had wholly fail ed in their former fchemes, and this was equally non• fenfical with the-preceding, and would give way to new projerlis equally ineffectual. Minifters would not deltroy the Militia, becaufe they dared not, but they were determined to melt it down, or fritter it away by every contrivance to which they could retort. The queftion was then put, when there appeared, Contents 6a Non-Contents 35 Proxies 40 Proxies 19 --sox *-54 _ _ Majority for the Bill, 48 Adjourned at It o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS. The Bill for Regulating the Afkae of Bread was read a third time, and paffrd. ' Mr. VANSHTART took the oaths and hit feat which had been vacated on his appointment to the Chief Secretarythip in Ireland. Lord STOPFORD prefented certain papers relative to the claim of the Duke of Athol on the Ilk of Man. The Ira Militia Reduction Bill was read a third time and palled. A me Wage from the I.ords announced their afrcnt to the Cußoms and Excite Doty Bill& ISLAVD OP MALTA. An the propolition tf Sir W. SCO TT the queltion was put and agreed to, that on Turfday nest the Houfe refolve itfelf into a Committee, to confider of In much of a former Mt of Parliament as refpedted the Salaries of Officers in the Vice-Admiralty Courts of the Mad of Malta. IRISH MILITIA BILL. On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the FXCHEOZJER, the Bill for the Redudtion of the lrLlh Militia was read a third tint; and paired. VOLUNTEERS. Sir ROBERT LAWRIE moved, that fo much of the orders re , garding the accounts of expences fur the Volunteer Service, as re lated to the Hoife and Hair powder duties, thould be dlfcharged; which was difcbargcd icentdingly. He then moved, that there be laid before the Houfe, a full Itatement of the mode of iffuing the funds for the Volunteer eftehlift\ment from the office of the Agent- General, from the sit Tune, t 8 )3, to the tft January, 1805 ; which, after a few words from Mr. Huikiffon, was agreed to. He further moved, that there be laid upon the table of the Houfe, an account of the Staff Eftablifhment in the fame fervice, from the 24th Sep tember, 1804, to the tit January, 1805. His rearms for moving this was, becaufr 'rom fame accidental inaccuracy, the particulars hail only been Rated tuthe former date.—Agreed to. IRISH LUNATICS RILL. Sir JOHN NEWPORT moved the Order of the Day, for the fec"nd reading of the Bill for the protec tion of Irith Lunatics. He laid, that the Aft of the 27th Geo. 111. c. 29 . which impowered Grand Ju ries to report npon the Rate of the Charitable Elia hhibments, had not been carried into execution with any regularity. The principal objeft of this Bill, was to remedy the inconvenience aril rig from the nu merous eliablithments for beneficent purpofes, yet very dillina in their nature, which were placed un der the fame general provifions. The AO, feet. 8, empowered the Grand Jury to provide a ward for Lunatics, and the rum expended was to be account ed for by the Surgeons of the Grand Infirmary ; and the confequence was, that twenty or thirty perfons, in the unhappy Rate of mind alluded to, required as much attendance, as would be neceffary for a hun died and fifty under the A. 61 now propofed. Ano ther detign of the Bill was, that the accounts Ihould be annually fuhmitted to the infpeaion and controul of Parliament. He much lamented the negle&, in regard to the infane, in fome of the dittrids of Ire land, brit he was happy to make an honourable ex ception in favour of the neighbourhood of Water ford, where an inftitution for their Alliance was formed, which had met with the peculiar approba tion of the great and benevolent Howard. Mr. MAY did not fee the propriety of palling a new A 1,6 while another exifted in the Statute Book, competent to the purpofe now propofed. The defign of the bill was to provide for a Ihoufand mad halt. (a general finite.) At prt fent Chef_ were wilier the proteaion of the Grand Juries of the country. The bill, now under confiderAtion, would take this impor tant duty out of the hands of the refpeetable perfons to whom the difcharge of it was committed, and would place it with others who were lets fuited to the purpofe. He added, that the only elfea would be to irnpofe a tax upon the counties, unneceffary and impolitic, and he concluded with moving the amend ment, that, in the lieu of the word " now," the term •, fix months," fhould be fubitituted. Lord DUNLOE fuppot ted the amendment. The effea of the bill would be to provide four palaces, for the reception of two hundred and fifty lunatics in each of them. Perfons in this unfortunate fituation were well provided for in the neighbourhood where he refided, and if they were not equally fo in the places for which the Hon. Baronet might be belt ac quainted, he filmid have no objeaion to atfent to a partial bill, to remove a partial evil, but he mutt dif approve this general meafure. Colonel BAGWELL thought it might be better to poftpone the conlideration of the Bill until after the Mr. ALEXANDER admitted the importance of the objet, but could not concur in the means; au error occurred in the first claufe of the Bill, which deprived lunatics of all provilion under the former plan, until the new eflablithment was formed. The whole machinery was alto too complicated ; and on thefe grounds he (hould fupport the amendments, in the hope that the Hon. Baronet would bring forward fome meafures lefs objedionable. Sir JOHN NEWPORT thought, that the nbjec lions made to the Bill, were more proper to be Rated in the Committee, than on the occafion of the fecond reading. A trifling verbal alteration, with which he timid coincide, would remove the difficulty Rated in the &it claufe by the Hon. Member who (poke tall. It was true, that a Bill had been paired to relieve lu• natio ; but it was fo incompetent to the objeet, that the Grand Jurors were either incapable or unwilling to a.ft under it. One principal defign in the prefera meafitre, was to place the expenditure under the con trout of Parliament; he never had promoted, an.l never would conduce to a public job ; what he had done was taken up on the report of a Committee of the Itoufe, and on that grave authority he had fubmit ted the fubjea to its attention. True it was, that for many years, he had contemplated the importance of the meafure ; but it was for the Houfe to judge, - and to difpofe of it, as fltould be thought expedient. Sir GEO. HILL and Mr. LEE oppofed the Bill. —The latter, however. laid, that the Hon Baronet had conferred a benefit on Ireland, becaufe, although his Bill was objectionable, the agitation of the quef tion would turn the attention of the people of Ireland to the execution of the former Mt. Colonel FITZGERALD was againft the Bill, be caufe the former Aa was fully competent to anfwer the purpofeintended.__ Sir JOHN NEWPORT then contented to with draw the Bill, and the tecond reading was of cowl:: negatived. FRIZZ AGENCY BILL. Sir NV. SCOTT brought up the Bill, of which he had before given notice, for the Encouragement of Seamen, and for the better and more effeEtually Manning his Majefly's Navy, which was read a first time. Sir W. SCOTT (after a minute recital of the par ticulars of the contents, by the SPEAKER) faid, that the merits or demerits of the Bill could not be under- Rood, without tome little time for confederation. He fhould therefore propofe, in order to give Gentlemen fufficient opportunity for this purpofe, that the 13111 be read a fecond time on Tuefday next, which was agreed to. LONDON. Of late we have received numerous Letters from our Friends, in. forming us that the Newfpaper Agents, by whom their papers are forwarded into the country, often fubftltute others in place of Tot STAR. This is a fpecies of impofidon to which our cuftomers only can apply the proper remedy. Let them write to their preterit Agents to difcontinue ferring them, and on in forming us we Hull give their orders to Newfmen, who win not pratice the fame fraud. If they do not know the name of the Agent, let them difeondnue to take the fubftituted papers. note the date when , they ftop, and pay only ■p to that time, fending us notice to provide them with another Agent. FRIDAY, APRIL 5. Confols, for money, 5 , f,--for ate. 57,11-0 Onmium 2i 2i prem. PiIICE OF STOCKS THIS DAY AT ONE O'CLOCK; _ _PRICE OF STOCKS YESTFRDAY: Bank Stock tut 3 per C. Red. Ann. abut 3 per Cent Conf. 5741/1 4 pt:r Cent. Ihut S p r tcu,t. Navy 894 g. S i , er Cent. 1797, thut Long Ann. (hut Short Ann. IbUt India Stock °tut /go for opg. India Bonds ts. a as. diL Imp. 3 per Cent. t rime Ann. 9 7. Of, Old S. S. Ann. 9 7-r64 frith s per Cent. 84} ea. div. Facheq. Bills par as. pz. Osmium at 3 21 prcni siglifb Tickets tSL iSs. Conf. for ace. 57{} Intelligence is hourly expelled refpelling the Brett Fleet, as by the latePt accounts there wasa probability of a partial aEtion at 'call being brought on between it and our Channel Fleet. The accounts received do not agree in every parti. cular, as our Readers will fee by comparing the fub joined letters. They both bring down the intelligence to thefame date,but the &ft rays our veffels had been drawn off, while the other Rates, that when the ac. counts left the fleet, the WINDSOR CASTLE, of 98 guns, the van fhip, was then adlually engaged with the enemy. We cannot reconcile there accounts but by fuppol., ing, that the latter left the fleet at a later hour (though on the fame day) than the former. We ought to add, that our Plymouth letter is from a Gentleman who has the heft means of being well-in f mmed, and whore communications we have gene. rally found to be pettedly correct. Extra& of a letter from an Officer on board one of our frigates, dated the soth ult. off UJbant. s. I dare fay the Papers have by this time given an account of the Breit Fleet attempting to come out; the manner I will tell you. On Sunday morning lalt, a convoy was obfrrved under the land, apparently bound to Breit, which, after being attacked by two of our brigs, took flicker under the battery of St. Mau hew.—. Tuefday, at day-hr..ak, three fail were fee) coming out of harbour, as if to protcdt them in, when we immediately chaced, and with . our Nall fquadron, viz. three frigates, and two brigs, made them alfo cake filcher under the batteries, of which we informed the' Admiral by a cutter, who fent us two line of battle (kips, the Co loffus and Briltruphon, when we .all got under weigh, and Rood right in, with intent to cut then) out, when the whole Breit Fleet, viz. twenty-one fad of the line, fiz frigates, and a brig, iine diately got under weigh, and flood out. A grander fight you can hardly imagine. The cutter was again dirpatclud to our fleet, and at half pail four eighteen fail joined us,and eve ry one ex-retell, and indeed longed to begin, when the Admiral made a fignal to haul off. The enemy were at anchor timely within gun mot of us. They have all returned again into virt." " PLYMOUTH, APRIL 3. - - - This day letters have been received from the Channel Fleet, cruizing off Brea, by which it ap pears, that on Saturday Taft, the French fleet, con filing of 21 fail of the line, five of which were three. deckers, befides feveral very heavy frigates, were lying at anchor in Bertheaume Road, near Breit, and that great hopes were entertained that an attion would be brought on between the two fleets, as the Britiflt were at that time very near them ; and when the account came away, the WiNDSOR CASTLE, of 98 guns, Captain GOULD, which was the van lhip of the fleet, was firing at the French (hips, from both fides. The wind was at that time (bong weaerly , fo that if the French were, as anal, difpnfed to be very thy, they would endeavour to ficulk again into Breit, as the wind favoured fuch a purpofe. We are hour.