Star. — London, England, 1801-06-11 00:00:00

• • , w e re prefent, to enktfs their fentiments rcrpeeting its necetlity or expediency. He had, in another cage of die Bill, given it his concurrence ; but he had fince received information from his con ft ituents which induced him to believe that ther e did not es& that neceffity for the meafure which he at firfl was taught to believe, pr at kaftthat it was not neceffary that it fhould be generally applied to every par t of Ireland. He had lately received docu =cuts from the county (Monaghan) which he had the honour to repretent, theft documents he beg ged leave to read to the Houfe. They confined of letters from the Lord Lieutenant to the Fore owl of the Grand Jury of that county, and of the .Foreman's anfwers to thole letters, flitting that the county of Monaghan was in a flue of as perfell tranquility as could well be expelled, and that ab .-e exidcd in it no necelfity for the coercive mea fore now pmpofed. Such alto he believed to be the opinion of the Judges in, Ireland, or fuch at Deaf he farmifed was their opinion—that opinion tc:lld at lea!! be confulted, and the abfolute ne cetfity of the meafure fhould be fully and fatisfac. torily made out before he could affent to any pre cipitate furtherance of the Bill, efpecially in the ab fence of the Members for Ireland ; though in this, as in molt other meafures propofed by hisMajefty'a Islinifiers, he had hitherto uniformly given them his fupport. Mr. Las infifted on the immediate necaty of the meafure, and declared it as his opinion, that at no future period of the Seflion there would be a fuller attendance of Irith Members than at the pre-. f c m moment. Mr. Aaiunr obferved, that thole who intended to obiell to the principle of the Bill, would, have feveral opportunities of fo doing ; for example, on the report and upon the third reading. His re gard to his public duty required that the Bill fhould meet with no unnecetfary delay ; his with therefore was to pars it through the Committee as foon as priffible, that k might nand before the Houle with all its amendments for farther confederation. Dr. LA WAENCE deprecated any precipitancy in the ditcuffion of fo important a meafure. Mr. At EX A N DEI. was for the Bill being now com mitted. The Hon. C. W. STUART expelled a fuller at tendance of the Members for Ireland, to-morrow, and anxiouily withed that the farther difcuffion of the Bill be deferred till then. Mr. BAGWELL raw no reafon for fuch an expec tation. The quetlion was then put, that the Speaker do now leave the Chair, and carried without adivifion. , The Hoare having refolved itfelf aceardingly into the Committee upon the BiU, Mr. Bragge in the Chair, ✓ Mr. A ssovr propnfed that the Bill be continued in force during the prefent war, and for one month After the ratificatiou of peace. ~ Mr. W. B7Pos som av upon hearing this amend -meat immediately rote and moved,That the Chair- Alan do now leave the Chair. . Mr. Dawson repeated his wifh• and his argu punts for the deferring the further difcuifion of the Bill. • Mr. G coact Pore sowsr raid that, from a variety of motives, he had hitherto forborne to rnanifeft any oppofition to the Bill : its neceffity Teemed to be felt and acknowledged by the lenient and hu mane Nobleman who had jug withdrawn from the Government of Ireland. Such alfo appeared to be the fixed and general opinion of the Mem bers for Ireland and of the majority of the Houle ; and an opinion fo fupported he was not much in clined to oppofe, though in his own mind he wholly difapproved of the meafure. Bnt his helitation to oppole it was now completely done away, by hear ing the monflrous claufe which was jut propofed to be introduced ioto the Bill. Mr. BRAGGa reminded the Hon. Gentleman, that the Motion before the Honk was, That the Chairman do now leave the Chair. Mr. Poe/1011SY conceived himfelf to he pedal!) , in Order, in making die obfervations he was juft offering to the Committee. He would therefore repeat, that the Claufe now propofed was a moll monftrons Claufe from its unconftitutional nature, and moll fatal from its political conlequences.— Without any proof of its neceflity. it aimed at de priving Ireland, for an indefinite time, of the be nefit of the Whiffs Conftitution, while it expofed a whole nation io the horrors of Martial Law., It alfo informs the enemy, that as long as the war confined, fo long Mould they find in a great por tion of the people of Ireland, fixed, determined, and seat us allies, and-that during the protrac'ted l i continuance of the contra, the enemy might find 'an opportunity of throwing in troops to refcue them from the (nips-a - lion that was to be heaped upon them. The enaehrent of loch a meafure alfo ful pored, that the Trill, people continued fo nntwithftanding all the boalled advantages of the Uniott, that. they would fill continue the fired friends and warm advocates of France. Such • was the unconftitutional nature and fatal policy of the meafure, while nothing appeared to . jullify the monft r ousClanfe that was to (lamp it with this charader. Had not Parliament the power to renew it every year, if its renewal was found to be neceffary ? Might not a Secret Committee be ap pointed next Salon, and the Bill be renewed, if the Report of that Committee recommended its renewal? Were there the mild, impartial meafures that the People of Ireland were taught to expea from an Imperial Parliament, not warped by local prejudices or religious aniznofities, loch as their Own Parliament was Cuppofed to he influenced by? Can the People of Ireland expel a kind parental Legiflature from a Parliament that fubjells them animal °deity to military law, and to the moil revere and oppreffive treatment that the molt re fentful Government can infliel on the moll rebel lions ? ':arc CH A%CtLLOR of the Exc 14 t(),V TR raid that if he l,ad ben called u po n, when he flat endeavour. ed to catch the Chairman's eye, Ile would have raved the Honourable Gentleman the trouble of makit , g the animated fpeech v.Lich he had juft de- liv e r e d The people of Ireland. he trufted, &mild always find in the prefent Adminifiratiost a kind and. parental Government. such were the fenti I menu which aauated Lia Majcfty's Minifters when they introduceri the megitre to angl e and fuch moil unqueftionably was the charkler and difpolition of his Right Hon. Friend, who had moved the claufe fo Rrongly reprobated by. the Hon. Gentleman. In prelling that claufe as it now flood it was not his intention to perfitto 'His with only was to purfue the fame mode that had been adopted refpeeting other Bills of a fimilar na ture, and to limit it to fix weeks, two months, or rather to the asth of Marth next. He was furprif ed to hear the Honourable Gentleman argue againß the principle of the Bill, fince he himfelf acknowledged that it was carried into execntion in fo lenient a manner by the Marquis Cornwallis, whom the Honourable Gentleman now admits has given faneion and approbation to the mea. Cure. He betides admits its necellity in feveral parts of Ireland; and thefe reafons, he confetfes, had diffnaded him from oppofing it. For his part, thongly as he was convinced of the neeeffity of the meafure, he would not propofe its being con tinued fo long as the term Rated by his Right Ho nourable Friend. He withed the Houfe to hive' it in their power to enter again into the difcuffion of its expediency, and maturely to confider whe ther they fhould again ground the Bill on the Re port already before them, or on the evidence, and at the recommendation of a future Committee.— He was not aware that fo long a duration as the continnanee of the war would lave been propofed by his Right Hon. Friend; he hoped the reitora tion of peace was not at fo great a diltance as Gentlemen appeared to apprehend. This he look. ed to with a fond hope, though he could not ray with confidence ; but h;felt himfelf fully juftified in faying fo, in order to counteraa the fuppoti. tions that Tome Gentlemen were In fludious in throwing out, that peace was unattainable. So dif ferent was his opinion, that he hoped this defirable ()Ned would be accomplifhed before the period to which he Ihnuld move that the duration of this Bill be limited—he meant the :sth of March next. 'This hope he was the more anxious to exprefs as he trufted it would defeat the evil tendency of fup pofitions to the contrary, to which he had already alluded. The Right Hon. Gentleman conclud ed by moving an amendment, that the duration of the Bill be limited to the stth of March next. Mr. Possonar was lorry to hear the Right Ho nourable Gentleman exprefs merely a hope, and not a confidence, of the fpeedv rdtoration of peace. Mr. Galt conceived himfeif to be perfonally al luded to in what fell from the Right Honourable the Chancellor of - the Exchequer in the conclud ing part of his fpeeeh. On a former occafion he had indeed expreffed a with to know if it was the intention of the Right Honourable Gentleman to give any intimation to Parliament before the dole of the Sam, of the progrefs, if any, that was made in the negoeiation for peace. But be could fee no reafon why the Right Honourable Gentle man (Muhl fay that he would defeat the purpofe of Inch enquiries, and that he was bound as an honeft man to frarate the tendency of the in finuations which filch enquiries teemed calculated to throw out. There was nothing laid on the pre fent occafion, that called on the Right Honour able Gentleman to make fuels an obfervation.— When he put the queftion to the Right. Honour. able Gentleman, he did not mean to prefs him for any information that it might be improper ;n him to afford, but merely that the Houfe might learn if the negociation was yet in train. All that the !onourible Gentleman now lays is, that he looks with hopes to peace, but not with confidence: and from Inch an affertion furely nothing very precife or conciliatory could be gathered. This, however, was not the point to which the Committee fhould now direft their attention. They had juft *knelled a moil unprecedented want of attention in the Honourable Gentleman who had brought forward the pi-dent meafure. That Right Honourable Gentleman comes forward and propofes a queftion with which the firft Minifter of the country con. fetes himfelf to be wholly unacquainted. Is this the concert and co-operation with which the new adminittration confers themfelves to aft ? Not only the firft Knitter ignorant of the meafure which one of his colleagues is to bring forward, but he is the very perfon who is obliged to rile and move an amendment to it.—lt was in his mind a melan choly profpca for Ireland to obferve that a Gen tleman, who before he was in office, and fince, was always fonovolt to propofe revere and bloody laws, and even to revive thufe of that defcription which had been fuffered to expire, fhould now be the perfon cholen to Luke a (bare in the admini ftration of that country. Whircould be expected from the mild, parental (pink of the adminiftration of a Gentleman, whnfe former conduct had been marked by the proporill of loch harfh meafures, and who now, without any previous notice to the Houle, or any concert and confultation with his colleagues, proptifes the enactment of Martial Law over the whole of that country, and that to be continued for an indefinite time, during the con tinuance of the war, even though the neceffity of loch a meafure might in the interim have ceded t A meafure fo extraordinary in its nature, and dif. doling loch an extraordinary incident in the con dna of adminiftration, he, for one, would ever re probate, and fo linguist were its features, that he crafted Parliament would not permit it to pals by unnoticed or unexplained. The CH•NCRIAOR of the EXCHIVISR exprefred his aftonithment at the tone and temper in which the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Grey) had treated his Right Hon. Friend, who he did not imagine had• a Jingle enemy in that Houle, until he heard the (precis of the Hon. Gentleman. That frech be trayed a degree of political enmity which it grieved him to obferve. Indeed he was guilty of - an in plaice towards his Right Honounibk Friend him- MI, by making ufe of an ezpreffion that was turned to his diradvantage. What he meant to have raid was, that he did not to expel[ to hear the motion made by his Right Honourable Friend at the moment that be mule it. The intention of making it was communicated to bins yefterday, and hi: Right Honourable Friend imagined that he was in favour of it. Bat his approbation of the meafnre was expected loorely and generally, and ~id not extend to all the clanks of the NIL As to the iormations thrown out again* the !ince. I himfclf .with . • • • • rity novernment in theirendeAvonti fn uego ciate a peace, he was et a les to difeover the Intl grounds for them. The Honourable Gentleman had no right to call that fincerity in queftion. His individual honour and charader, svhethet in his private or public conduit, he would be ever ready to vindicate ; and until the Honourable Gentle man. fuCceeded in (hewing Tome incongruity , be tween his -words and his actions, any attempt to impeach his fincerity mutt' prove •abortiVei - A regard to the public interelt requiredthathefhould thus alert his charader for.fincerity.• For thofe intereils mightbeinjured if the infinuations thrown out againll it on a point fo momentous as that of Peace, were permitted to gain ground, ' Such in finuations were the more painful to him when they came from a perfon whole good opinion he once fuppofed himfelf to have enjoyed. • s • • Mr. GREY, in explanation, laid, that he hactno perfonal enmity to any Gentleman in the Houfe. He had harboured always the molt favourable opinion of the Right Hon. Gentleman in his for mer capacity, and he flill entertained thatmpinion of his private worth. But of his 'conduit/ as a Minifter, he fhould continue to reprobate, tire clan y aslong as his meafures appeared to be rnextel led on the principles of the late Adminifiratiun. He would again repeat that he bore no private enmity to any man; but that he 11'00.1 remain a decided and trrecnneilable enemy to all thu mea lures of an arbitrary Government. Mr. ABBOTT contended that he had done no— thing that was not warranted by the Report of the Committee, which flared that the rebellion in Ire land would never lublide as long as any hope of foreign aid was entertained by the dileontented. He merely ailed as the organ of the Committer in prop:Wing the extent of time to «Ears the operation of the Bill thould be limited, and he Mt no re proach due to him for adopting-the conclulions the Committee had thought proper to draw from the information laid before them As to the future Government of Ireland, every thing aufpicious might be augured turn .he known charader of the Nobleman who had taken upon him the admini tiration of that country :—it would be impartial, humane, and merciful, where mercy did not coun tered the purpofes of law. As to his own parlia mentary conduit, he fhould leave it to the Houfe to judge of its propriety or impropriety ; he would not hefitate even to fubmit it to the judgment of the Hon. Gentleman himfelf (Mr. Grey) when his cooler moments left him in the full exercife of it...., He was as irreconcilable an enemy to arbitrary Government as the Honourable Gentleman could be, and as zealous a friend to •good order and legal freedom. His conduit, he trulled, would always guide this rule. Nitr onfcire ftbi, nulla pallacere calpa. Mr. STEELE confeifed that he heard the attack made upon his Right Hon. Friend with mixed emotions of regret and indignation ; if any odium attached to his Right Hon. Friend, for the motion he made, he, for one, was ready to take his full fhare of it--for he was,ready to fecond it if necef fary. Mr.TIERNIY defended the conduit of Mr. Grey, than whom no man enjoyed more the relped of the Houfe, and the affedion of the country of large. The Hon. Gentleman then proceeded to animadvert very pointedly on the want of con cert that marked the meafures of Mi ll iners, an d foreboded no very favourable Government for Ire land, from the councils of men whole opinions were lb little in unifon. No terms were thong enough to reprobate the Claufe propored by the Right Hon. Gentleman: it juftly excited the in dignation of his Hon. Friend; for what could flit up indignation in a liberal mind, if not an attempt to deliver over a whole nation to the arm of mili tary law. Mr. CORRY jullified the conduit of Mr. Abbott, and the neceffity of the meafure propoled by him. Mr. GREY Paid a few wards id explanation, and appealed to his habits of debate, to thew the fu tility of Tome charges which had been adduced againfl him by the friends of the Right Honoura ble Gentleman, of whole political charafter he had ventured to give his fair and candid opinion. For himfelf he was confcious of no violation of decorum, of no breach of privilege, or of no at tack on the ellablifhed rules of civilized intercourfe, and, therefore, the attacks levelled againft him he was bound to difregard. Thofe perfons who, in delivering their festoments, were guilty of coark and illiberal abufe, had more reafon to aecuk themfelves of a violation of the decency and de corum of the Houfe. Mr. &rests difelaimed the defire of wounding 'the feelings of any Gentleman, however he might differ with him in political opinion ; he made it a rule to Wien to arguments front whatever quer- j ter they came, with attention, and it was his with i to exercife civility in every part-of battlers with which he was connected.—He adverted to the mo tives which induced him to rite on a former part of the evening, and declared that he was induced to exprefs the opinion he had then Ilated, from a -feeling of indignation at what he conceived unjuft infinuations againft his Right Honourable Friend. He fpoke with fume warmth of what he termed the diflike of the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Grey) to thofe who differed with him in politics, and mentioned the language he had employed as hark and improper. to be tiled in debate. Dr. LAWRRNCE (peaking to Order deprecated farther perfonality, and recommended a diciest: dikullion of the fubjed. The Honourable Member, after 'adding a few more remarks in juftification of his conduit, con• eluded his explanation. ' Mr. Secretary YORKE was not an enemy to the Amendment, though, if the original Chore had been adhered to, it might have been with him a matter of grave confideration, whether he would not have green; -- The preterit - Bill which no conftii ing to even lion of its neer have beenme edit - 7 was have continued As the chafe 7wiswa . .waiwirmaa ---- a - •awalgliplorwr -7 ."7 - - . . . , , I di% he went on to panegyrize the charade! sf e Vs Right Honourable Friend, avhoft . chntlind was equally eitimable from his aftiddiiY in Itufinel., from his hatred of all corrupt: an a from his excel- lent conflitutiopal principles. .. Mr. WH it BREAD Cbllceived thatthe (peach of his Hon. Friend (Mr. Grey) had been totally milcon ctived. The pabegyries pronottnced on the Right Honourable Gentleman might be sal 'true. Midi Rill he might be unfit to be reccignlzed by the Wee as a perftm itialifii:d fo:eonduCr'dieliffittre of lve: land..• He mitt be a perfon diftittleitifited. by his indu A ry; and . 's attention tcrthetdetails of of f ice, and Rill fuels might be his political :principles as his Hoh.• r, lend bad reprifented: 'He conceived that neither his Thin. Friends nor hitifelf would be doing.their duty if they did not point out Ulna festsses to' his!idtatider which in their 'pinion dirqualified him to be an Executive Minifter of die Crovat. He had no difficulty in raying then,' • that the Right Hotionrable Gentleman had encli.a voured to iirengthen die hands of Guverument by meafures not demanded by ciecumliances, nor COD; filera '.viIII thepliaileges of a free People. ' [Here • there was a cry . of :Tim- fiolikar i l from: the Wadi rial fide.) This, the Henoprable Gentleman cc* tended, vas the diftiadion laetarixt the prineip)d • held by himfelf and his Hon. Fricags, and ills would rept:at, that the Right Hon. Gentlentatt Ihad, in tie Cattle offered to the Boat, propofed tn.:yea the 'Crown • with the moil monfirous amt . unheard-of power.; .After dilating romeWhit Move 'partictilarly on This t a trt, he begged leave to put it to thet.flon.. and tried Gentleman who (opt , 'sorted the the meafitre, whether it had on the whole ' beer.. attended with I beneficial ?eft*. It ivas•aci ierted in the C thmittee,that at this moment arme# banditti traverfed ante parts of Ireland,, and raU gaged the abodes of elonteflic happinere Bid lib would alb, whether at - the 4cry -mohient that this was. Rated, whether Martial Lan badhot exiftd, and whether it was not under the dpieentinikiliff this Lavitromuch calculated to reflote trinchtilfity to* diftraded country, that all the crnclties.ctmrplainell of were perpetrated? From this he beigged Gentle. men to draw what ameltifion theY pliared, but for hinifelfit convinced him that the law was %effica cious to the end propofcd: much had bein raid in defence of the Bill, from the charade of the Mat'. quisCorr.wallis,by whom it was forinerly exercifeci. Much, he doubted not, might be Paid fcr Lord Hardwicke, aralhe felt no difpnfition in the leak to depreciate his charader;_he felt it.his duty to refill all fuch arguments, and. only to view, the Biel Conftitntioaally as capable of abule. ' Mr. LEE and Mr. MAN TIIE of allinly feverally (poke in favour of the Bill as abfolutely necefrary to rave Ireland from the recites which had deluged it with blood.—The amendment was then put and carried without a slivinon. Mr. WHITBREAD, after a few prefatory remarks, rofe to futimit a claufe the object of which was to allow no Court-Martial to fit under this Bill whore numbers fbould be lets than 13, and no (entente of death to be paired without the ctmcurrence of nine members of the Court-Martial. It was oppo(ed by the Sou ix-mt . .:-01a teat, on the ground that it would probably be impoffible, without great inconvenience to the fervice, to pro cure at all times Courts-Martial fo nomerous ; and on the queftion being put, it was rejected without a divifion. Mr. WRITBILIAD next moved, that it Mould be allowed a prifoner to challenge thofc appointed tb fit on Coots Martial, it being underftond that his challenge was not to be peremptory, but judged of by the Court. After Tome very defultory converfation betwixt Mr. Abbott, Mr. French, Mr. Yorke, and Mr. At torney General, the =cult of which was that the claufe was withdrawn as unneceiTary, Another clauie, fpecifying the necefility of a Judge Advocate on all trials, was, after a few words from Mr. Alexander, negatived. A fourth, enacting that no punifhment different from that allowed by the common law fhould be L inflided under the application of this Bill, under went a fimilar oppofition, and (hared a fimilar fate. Mr. WHITBREAD propofed a fifth, declaring, that no perfon having . been acquitted by a Jury fhould he liable to be tried for the fame offence be -1 fore a Court Martial. . General WA,LroLt adverted to a cafe where this had actually happened, bin from his peculiar fitu . ation (being, as we could coiled, on the Court Mar ' tied), he was unable to enter into the particulars of • the affair. The ATTORNEY GE !VIRAL conceived there /1111 a have been tome tniftake in the hulloes, for if fuch a plea had been fairly and legally produced, he ap prehended that it would have been impolfible to have gone on with the trial. Mr. G. PONSONBY wifhed the learned Member not to be peremptory in his afrertions, time he could affure him that fimilar cafes had occurred. The Arroas EY Gas ERA L retorted, and writhed to be explicitly informed whether the plea in quer tion had been urged in a legal form ? If this could be made out to be the cafe, lie ihnuld then be com pelled to admit what he had before believed to be morally, if not phyfically, impoaible. Mr. G. PONIOVEY, in reply, begged tette, to allure the Learned Gentleman and the Hoilfe, that tho' the cafes had not fallen under his own immediate infpedion, yet they had been commu nicated to him by Lawyers svho had an opportu. nity of kodwing the cireumftances, and whore ve racity he had no poffible reafon to impeach. After a few obferiratirms from Mr. Guar and General WALPOLE, the queflion was pot on the Claufe, and, like all the others, it pallid in the negative. Mr. Dawson In conclnfion propofed a dilute, requiring all perfons fitting on Courts Martial, stonttituted in virtue of the Ad, to have completed -aps:rieneinr n matter of grave continuation, wuccncr nc wouna committed in virtue at tne ricr, to nave Cr7Mpg . ' CIA ✓ not have greenit hisfupport. The prefent was a Bill their 21 a year. The clan& experiencing rionfi. :I which no conllitutional man could think.* steed- lion, the Honourable Member determined to di. f ing to even for an hour, without a Rrong convie- vide the Houle, and for this purpofe the gallery Lion of its necellity ; and on this principle it might was cleared ;no divifion we unteraood took place, t have become a quellion of difficulty, after its ne- hut the ittlufe being neg.itived, the Bill par e d t h e e ceility was reeognized, whether it ought not to :!ommittee. The Houle was then refurned, and have continued till after the conclufirm of the wet. the Report ordered for tn-tnortar. The other As the claufe was withdrawn , he should content orders beivr read, difpofed of, or &feared till this ▪ himfclf with fupporting the Amend:neut. From d eb the I(oufe adjourued at Half p. Two. _ _