Star. — London, England, 1818-02-04 00:00:00

leNs% ficsil cordlv of agents employed by • theipielves. An inquiry in the Way id neither be regarded as impartial, nor ex vOerd satisfaction to the country. It should a nd bath sides of the question faitly ifro 1 pexhaps it would appear that. much fallen out may be traced to the Viscount himself. It was in expect a full sad fair in was to be founded on state- Ministers themselves. 'ER POOL said .that the question was whether it would follow been the uniform practice of all such poses? With re occasionally originating in , it could make no material option as to the two modes, Majesty's Ministers. The not to delegate to its Corn sending for persons, papers, and Committee itself, should it .y specifically to the House for Committee, therefore, would __ should deem necessary, of cal information ; and the mode now pro the almost uniform practice Under such circumstances doubt as to the course which now think fit to adopt. The - time for entering into any the subject ; nor could he would be the course their relation to the Report.— what the Noble Lord had the judicial4proceedings, he reference to those trials would the Report of their Lordship confirmed and borne out, in- It was proved the exis 'stances alleged were founded in repeated decisions of Grand Ju inspired at the trials which ac is of indictment had been persons, of whom thirty-six. were trial, or had unequivo guilt. He begged leave Lord, that it was the una- Committees of both Houses Habeas Corpus Act should be present instance, the proposed .f its discretion exercise the power information on the subject before . proper so to do. NSDOWNE said, it was far . any opposition to the mo was hisopinion that the sub onsideration of a Committee. was, that under the particular case, it might be advisable to extensive scale of inquiry. In the the information was to come themcelves, the result of such an in. not be expected to prove intry. RYON explained, that he were falsified by the trials; from being borne out by the The Noble Earl seemed to they were borne out by the de should be recollected, how ,, as well as those to be ex iittee, proceeded entirely upon put, and the Papers were the consideration of a Se irther, ()a the motion of the , that the said Committee be usual way, at five o'clock, on ijourned to to that day. COMMONS. przsented a Petition for teave to bring —.gnu harbour.—Okiered to be re- Petition from certain Attortties adoption of measures to restrain persons irons acting as Conveyancers. ramissioners for the Reduction of accounts of all sums of money re of the last year and .applied by National Debt. , presented an account of the nuin sent.nice of death in ?iewgste, Teel and the periods during which they ask if it was likely that an early receiving the Recorder', Report, which ready to be presented for some time. said an tatty day would be named might be for the convenience of the direct their attention to the Dropped der to ascertain in what way it was them. The first on the list was the old Castlereagh), for the re-appoint the Income and Expenditure. 'H said, he had no objection immediately, if it met with House. He thought the portance of losin,q_no time in ,ee on the Income and Expen- Whatever difference of opinion iect of any particular measure on the opposite side of the :eyed it would be admits Lmmittee had ever pFrfo iv and activity. He might !ter, from the few questions beer raised on the suggestion to offer, that their reports had and the Country had desired ; but, at all events, there an a; to the extent of the in• made, and as to its importance. of aTI the Offices of emolu (ernment, and particularly of -ailed, though not always pro . They had inquired into the Lance Estimates ; and though that the House imposed up mg what should bethe amount Lroper to be retained, they had Leh iaformation, and accom- observations, which brought timer limits than heretofore, and ' very useful, when it should be In the first place they had the expenditure and income 1 1rrr7 ille, , :i ' ' 1, 'o4'l ' '" . " - wfv. 47 : : " - '''' - .•7:" .. • .. f•,F . I • .1.: • ' #.7...••:C411*. \ • • Y 't" 1 1 resulted horn Ike canal* Ministers thetplelves. An _ , posed could neither be reg a ' - l• ‘S'rc , tog ford satisfaction e e d ner;l, and both sides . vestigated ; and perhaps it uf . .the evil that had fallen very , o ffice of the Noble Vi vain, he must repeat, to e qu iry, when the whole wa menu furnished by Minion , The Earl of LIVERPOC :. . now before the House, was the course which had beei Parliament with respect to spect to such proceedings, c a Message from the Crown, - difference ; because the opi would alike rest with his . practice of that House was T mittee the power of sending records ; it was for the Ct deem expedient, to apply sp such a power. The Com have the power, if it shoal ling for further informatior posed was sanctioned by th of the House in such cases. • he could entertain no dou' their Lordships would now present was not the proper I detailed discussion upon ti think of anticipating what Lorahips would adopt in With respect, however, to thrown out relative to the must say-, that a referent prove . so far, that the Ito last Committee was confi: stead of being invalidated. • tenee of the circumstances ), fact, not only by repeats , • ries, but what had transpil tually took place. Bills • found against fifty persons, either convicted on full tally confessed their own also to remind the Noble I , nimous opinion of the Co . - of Parliament that the Hal suspended. In the preser Committee could in its die , . • of calling further informal them, should they think pi The Marquis of LANS from his intention. to offer •tion ; on the contrary, it ws ject should . go to the consi What he meant to say was circumstances of the case, institute a more extensive present mode, where all th from Ministers themselves, quiry, he must say, could . satisfactory to the country, The Earl of CARNAE had not said the reports w but that they were far frc judicial proceedisqrs. Th conceive the idea that they cision of a Grand Jury : it .1 ever,•that those decisions, petted from- the Commitu exiage evidence. The question was then ordered to be referred to cret-Committee 1 and - ftiri Noble Secretary of State, I Isallossek for, in the usua Thursday neat. —Adjourn HOUSE OF Admiral FRANKS prente in a Bill for improving Race,ga fermi to aCommittee. -.Mr. SWANX presented a i 1 1 .. and Solicitors, praying for the a incompetent and Ofiterate persoz Ordered to lie on the table. Mr. Urals (from the Corer the. Debt) presented at il l' ceived by them in the course I them to the extinction of the N 1 ' Mr. 13rowa (from Newgate) i bee of persona now grader sent.: tying their ages and crimes, am had been confined. Mr. BENNETT begged to : day would be fixed for receivin It was understood had been real Lord CASTLELE..I Gil sal i t i i \ kis receiving it. The SPEAK ER said it mig 0 l i Heim that he should now diret Orders of yesterday, in order , • z their plmessm to dispose of tiler I notice or a Noble Lord (Lord . meta of the Committee on the Lord CASTLEREAGI to bring on his motion i: the approbation of the • i t, House would see the imps reviving the Committee diture of the country. WI . , might exist on the subjec y ~ between the Gentlemen HOuse and him, he belie 1 % on a ll hands, that no Con '\ % its duty with more fidelit perhaps be allowed to in; of importance that had b wl•.ich they thought fit to been such as the House a and expected from them • 1 • . could be bite one opittio i • . quiry which they had ni: 1 They had taken a v iew c i ' matt held under (river those whith had been ca 1 perly--Sillecure OfCces. Army, 1011tvy,, andOrdn. considered' they had, Pt 1 , on them ie task of sayin of each eltablishment pis afforded the House mu( panied this with many o the subject within closes which would be found v div-Ito - v2d in that House. taken a racral view of 4%* • 1, 7 :4%.. .. . 7...•• :`"A Va. '...... •. • • • : .. • ,`,.• .. • •• • of the country, in order to square them with each other, and to shew a hat they were likely to be here after,_ and they hid the merit of having presented the House with a very clear view of this most can rplicated of all subjects. They were still proceeding in their labours, and would have accomplished more 'than they had done, but for the rising of the House. IHaving briefly stated what had been done by the Committee, it was now for him to speak of what had been done by Government in consequence of the reports of that Committee. On the present, oc casion it was not his intention to go into any minute' details, but should the Committee be rd-appointed, it would be the duty of Government to state to them what had been done pursuant to their recommen dation, and why some things had not been done.— He would say more, that when they came before the House he was confident it would be seen that Minis ters had been anxious to give early effect to the re ports of the Committee. The grounds on which, in certain special cases, they had not acted on them would be laid before the Committee, who would then have an opportunity of reconsidering the cases referred to. At the time he moved for the first for • motion of this Committee, he had stated that he was not sanguine enough to expect it could terminate its labour in one year. He was of opinion they might be required for a second, and possibly for a third.— After a war of such magnitude and extended dura tion, as that we have just closed, he had thought it likely that -so much time might be required to sa tisfy the House what was the exent of the revenue and expenditure to be calculated upon in a time of 'peace, and what the measures necessary to bi adopted, not only to keep from running back, but to secure the means for effecting an important reduc- Aims of the national debt. When he had spoken thus 411 Honourable Gentleman (the Member for Bram ' her) had objected to the protracted inquiry, which the language he had referred to seemed to that Ho nourable Gentlemen to announce. He objected to the delay which he expected would follow from the appointment of a Committee, whose labours might not close for three years, as if he had apprehended that nothing would be done iii the mean tame. He (thought it had been shewn by the Reports of the Committee, and by the measures of the Government, that this fear was not well founded, but he was =us that it should be seen what further could be within the period of which he had spoken. It would be trespassing on the time of the House to go into the same course of statements on the present oc casion which he had thought necessary last year, when moving for the appointment of this Committee. The subject which it had been appointed to investigate, having by its labours been brought within a nar rower compass than it had been found in before, the , House might now expect its attention to be directed to the details rather than to the outline. On the im proved state of Ireland he spoke with much satisfac tion. The manlier in which that country had passed ,thongh the late season of calamity, without any pro vision by law for the relief of the poor, must excite equal pleasure and surprise. The spirit of charity and benevolence displayed on the part of the higher orders, had drawn the bonds of social attachment closet than ever they had before been drawn in that country. He hoped at an early day the attention of the House would be directed to the increased or di minished expenditure of the last year, when it might be discussed, with the advantage not only of the former Reports of the Committee, but with that a Supplementary Report. He concluded by moving the re-appointment of the Committee of last year, to inquire into the expenditure and income of the country for the years ending January 5, 1817, and January .5, 1818, and so far as the same can be made out, to make an estimate of the income and expen diture of the country for the year ending January 5, 1819, and also to point out what further reductions can be made without detriment to the public interest. While the fist of the Members of the Committee was being read over, Mr. BANKES remarked, that one Righ t Honour able Gentleman (Mr. Tierney) had not named on the Committee last year (on account of ill health), who was capable of affording the most important services where matters of Finance were under con sideration. As the former cause for his absence no longer existed, he hoped to see that Right Honour able Gentleman in the Committee this year. Mr. TIERNEY said, if on any particular occa sion he could afford the Committee any information, he should be happy to give them every assistance in his power ; but though he was much recovered from his late indisposition, he feared if he gave his atten dance to the Committee in the morning, he should be unequal to the duty of the evening, and should therefore feel obliged if the House would excuse him. lie wished it to be understood, that on no other account did he wish to decline being on the Committee. Lord CASTLEREAGH reminded the House that the constitution of the Committee was not such as to prevent any Member being calle.l to assist its de liberations. Much benefit had been derived from the course pursued in the last Session, that of in viting Members in official situations to give such in formation as it might be in their power to afford, and as this had been found the most convenient way of conducting the inquiry, he had no doubt that the Committee, when re-appointed, would be glad to derive assistance from Gentlemen who were not Mem bers of the same Committee. Mr. BANKES thought the call upon a public officer different from that of a private Member of :the House. The former might be called upon to 'attend this Committee, but he hardly knew how a "-person holding no office, and not being one of its Members, could be present at its sitting but as an idle person. He therefore could wish, that the name of the Right Honourable Gentleman should be add ed to the Committee, or that the Committee should have a power of increasing its members from time to time. Such a power he thought might be of great utility, as it would enable them to add to their num ber Members who would be capable of rendering im portant services. The SPEAKER inquired if the Right Honourable Gentleman wished to press his suggestion on the House by a motion ? Mr. BANKES declined doing so, and the question as originally proposed was put and agreed to, and the Committee re-appointed. DROPPED ORDZIRS. Mr. GRENFtLL was about to bring forward the Bank-notes now in'circula- tion, when The SPEAKER reminded the House that he had a little time before suggested the expediency uf posing of the dropped Orders. He had collected that it was the duty of the House to do so. It might be a question whether any of them should be pro ceeded with that evening ; but he considered it to be his duty to read over the list. Mr. C. W. WYNNE wished to know if a Member who had a question which stood for the day, had the right of priority if he chose to assert it. If such Member chose to waive his right, the dropped Or der might be taken up ; but the right was with him *hose motion stood for the day, and he might claim priority over all the dropped Orders. The SPEAKER hid very little doubt of the cor rectness of the Honourable Gentleman who had just addressed him, and would not rely upon any opi nion of his own in opposition to him. He only wished to collect what the House thought would be mast for its own convenience. Perhaps in the first instance he ought to call an the Honourable Gentle man whose motion stood next for this day, to say what course he was disposed to take. Mr. GRENFELL wished to do nothing in oppo sition to the House, but in the present instance it was only a question of priority, and he was ready to give way till the dropped Orders had been dis posed of, or to proceed immediately to offer the few observations with which, he intended to preface his motion. Mr. PHILLIPS wished to know when the Noble Lord opposite would nano the time for moving to refer the Papers concerning the internal state of the Country to a Committee. Lord CASTLEREAGH said, he should fix the day before the House adjourned. DANN RESTRICTION. The House postponing the dropped Orders, Mr. GRENFELL ' brought forward his motion. He reminded the House of the intimation which they had recently received from the- Chancellor of the Exchequer on the subject of the Bank Restriction Act. is intimation had not surprised him. lie had never deybted but, on some grounds or other, the continuation of the Bank Restriction Act would be proposed by the Right Honourable Gentleman in the course of the present Session. This he had more than once stated to be his conviction, and he had constantly expected that some pretext would be laid bold of by Government to save them from keeping their promise—that promise which they had so often made within the last three years. The promises of Ministers had been accompanied by the solemn as surances of the Bank, that they were not only ready and willing to pay in specie when the Bank Restric tion Act should cease to operate ; but that they were most anxious and impatient for the arrival of the time when they should be permitted by that House to resume their cash payments. if such were their wishes, (and such they had been stated to be by Mr. Harman), might not the Directors of the Bank come to that House, appeal to them against Ministers, and call for the repeal of the Restriction Act? As a Member of the Corporation, he should most heartily join in such an application. Let them conic then to Parliament, and petition to be relieved tom that situation in which they had been placed in 1797. However they might have profited by it, they might plad that it had made them an object of suspicion to the nation. There was, however, no prospect oi such an application being made; for stopping pay ment for twenty one years, which would have in volved any other Company or concern in insolvency and ruin, had proved to the Bank Company a source of wealth, power, and prosperity. Still, however, they did not consider the Act under which this was done was passed to benefit them. They accused Government of having passed it for other purposes connected with their own interests. This language be had heard from several, and, in particular, from lone friend of his who was in France, taking a part, as he believed, in those financial operations, which were to make it necessary to continue the Bank Re striction Act in force. From others of the Bank Cor poration, he had heard it said over and over again, that the restriction was not intended for their advan tage, but proposed to Parliament merely because it suited the convenience of Ministers. It would be curious, and not useless, though he would not do it now, to trace the different grounds, and the various arguments, by which this measure had been defended on the several occasions of its re-enactment. Suffice it to say, the measure had now been enacted eight times. He would take the liberty to express a hope, that before the Chancellor of the Exchequer again proposed its renewal, he would at least subject the l affairs of the Bank to an inquiry similar to that of 1797. He slightly touched on the arguments for merly urged in support of the measure, none of which were, in his opinion, so futile, so flimsy, (he had al most said, so insulting,) to the understanding of the House, as those which had been addressed to it for the same purpose on the present occasion. Were they now to be told, that because France, Austria, and to these he had heard Prussia added, wanted loans, and because certain great houses, Rosschild's and others in this capital, were desirous of assisting them, that, to enable them to do this, the evil of which England had so long complained during the war was to be continued in a time. of peace? Did not the Chancellor of the Exchequer know that the renewal of the Bank Restriction Act would give in creased facility to the transactions of which he had just spoken ? He could do nothing that would favour them more ; and he (Mr. Grenfell) would take upon himself to say, that if the Bank were to resume its [payments in cash, not a shilling of British capital would go out of this country to furnish the loans now about to be raised. Why ,then, under these circum stances, he would contend, that the measure about to be brought forward went in fact to give a bounty on the transactions in question. He did not mean to say that the trade in money ought not to be open, like any other trade; nor did he contend that British subjects ought to be prohibited from placing their money, if they were disposed to do so, in foreign funds : he would have the mo n ey trade perfectly free. But could it be maintained that it was so while the Bank Restriction Act was continued in force?— He maintained that it must not; and if of two things he could only have one—if he must decide between cash payments and foreign loans—he would say he preferred the former, and was content to do without the leter. lie would oppose foreign loans so long as the Bant delayed the rewrap In the arguments used in oppe support of the Bank Restrictic mistaken for the cause. So loi paper currency not convertible precious metals, so long woul bring the exchanges against it, argued at some length on the which he complained, and promptly seeking the remedy, sooner we returned to a metal! would it be for the country, as slat state of things continue would it be to return last. which he took of the subject. he was in error, with all the gr tinguished writers who had g in from the time of Mr. Loc ke - Smith, and down to the late E concluded by moving for an weekly aMoupt of Bank Note! in circulation, from the Ist of Sd of February, 1818, distingi Bank Notes ur.der the value amoant of the whole. The CHANCELLOR of thi AI when the measure which came before the House, there portunities for going into the ! cline entering at large into it ato opposition to the present in The Motion was then wee solutions moved by Mr. Gaza a great variety of Papers an with the subject. INTIRNAL STATR OP Lord CASTLEREAGH bi hag, certain papers, containir ipg the Internal State of the were ordered to remain in th of the House ; and the Noble RR Thursday he would move I referred to a Committee. PROPERTY TAX Mr. BROUGHAM wished cellor of the Exchequer could respecting the destruction of Prcperty Tax? The CHANCELLOR of t 1 a very considerable time ago been sent round, directing chi sets of papers connected wit} He had reason to believe till diately complied with. Mr. BROUGHAM wished papers so destroyed had not The CHANCELLOR of the stood all the copies to have as the originals. MIL 1101 Mr. W. SMITH, in bring of which he had given notice ject to lay some foundation I the present course of proceed mations. He should not go at the present moment ; he with moving for all account Crown Office by Mr. Hone, they were demanded. and the applied. He merely did this authentic information oflthe correct. The case of Mr. Ho sion than the cause of his ma had had the subject in his mi and he took great blame to brought it forward before ; fi might have been . the means c lately occurred in the case person he admired, in comm fortitude, the sagacity, and s played throughout the trials. had several interviews with b possessed of the manners of mated by a very proper spirit For his own parr, he (Mr. Sul of the Parodies, and he thoug worthy part of Mr. Hone's stopped the circulation of the did not think them fit subje upon in a Court of Justice such condemnatiOn as the) House, would do more to than the verdict of aJu even had a.e been given lie (Mr. Smith) did not nos plain of any one; Mr. Hone the warmest terms, of the u attention, with which he h Attorney-General, who had part of a Gentleman. Mr with every attention and civi Nothing had been refused to complain of but the law. 1 Ito charge against the Atto any one else. When he con manded at the Crown Offic law. This was the sole core be did not deny that the Jun plied for copies, had, in refit according to the law. He n " That 1 - here should be laid heft Sums received in the Crown Office copies at inforinatiois filed against with the authority on which the a the use to which the Mlle had bee The ATTORNEY-(:EN} it was necessary for him to the present motion. He v mitted that Mr. Hone had 1 spect as any other defendant If the Honourable Gentlem: information with a view to a spect, he might have obtain been more generally framed ed on the case of Mr. llone. had been treated precisely would have been under the information now called fu every body, at least every b might be found on the Jour demands now made were sui from 1690. He knew not I . prior to that date. No al with respect to them since in the stamps. Such as t were, they had been return year he had name 1, and in ~~