Star. — London, England, 1819-03-09 00:00:00

, and though t ' tha FloteiPla of wo ull be prejudicial to society. The Hon. 0 ,, r , or :laded by spins, that he should vote the Dill in every stage. CUR WEN hoped the House would see the • of revising t hese laws, and allow to the °e a mad that right which is bona j ide vested in such. This right being once established, all be ;nu-res.:el in maintaining it, and &s -lid invariably pursue the person who should The existing system h e cqnsidered detes and abhorrent, and should therifore most rea. his vote in support of the measure proposed llonnufable Friend. F ; LEWIS mainlined that the object which contemplated was only to give persons pc4- land the absolute and uncontrolled poWer It was a substantive offence• to disturb an in - the possession of his - property but it tifestly wrong to make that an offence in the lation of the law, which was not reaLy.so.in nature. He agreed most willingly to the of some legislative measure calculated to do lie evils which resulte& from tjie present ope ol the Game Laws.—Leave given. . PROSECUTIONS IN THE EXCHTULIER. W. HARVEY, in rising to bring forward his 'fur a Return of all Informations under the r Custom Laws, which had been instituted ;oat of Exchequer in the last seven years, n ot awate upon what grounds an opposition raised to it. He was anxious, however, to Jouse into possession of his motives for bring rirward, and the use he intended shobld be of the papers AN hich were called for. It was -lent to be useciagainst him, that this. pro cin!a-acei too great a latitude of inquiry, was willing to acknowledge that there was in it. la concurrence with that suggestion, he ~ t herefore, limit his scope of inquiry to the ,else wombs, in place of seven years. The investigation would embraceithree propo- First, to shew what unwarrantable expenses to the Revenue, by resorting to informations 6e Exchequer. Secondly, to ascertain the jilt- . • expense which was imposed upon defendants, is resort to prosecution, by information : and the great expense brought upon defendants , agamst whom verdicts might - be given. were one or two cases which he would take iberty to cite, and would set iii a clear point of the hardship and injustice of such proceedings. was that of a respectable merchant of London, was; by humane considerations, induced to leave of one thousand pounds to an indigent trades to enable him to carry on some business in the coffee way. An information was laid against having sold a vegetable powder of a delete s quality; and which, from its resemblahce to was denounced by law, under I.:loo'penalty. is not the owner of the hop, but Daly had his ler the, door to secure himself in the property, 1 received only common interest for his money:, • came upon him'. brsurprise, and he lost no memorializing the Coin mtssioners of Excise ; received only a ptinted circular, couched in such terms, as convinced him that his application i:h but little success. He was induced after to offer. £lO, then £2O, And at length he was to understand, that ,if ho paid £3O and the of the action, it would be compromised, which , ' that the costs was the only object with the rof the Excise. When the posts came to be into, however, they were ascertained to be of £5O or £5O, which, with the sum to be made the alternative as bad as abiding the trial.' .i.eu it came into .Court, though it was a very of an Act of Parliament, there were ar- against him a phalanx of no less , than five Lawyer*, which, with the Solicitors, etc. and: of a Special Jury, run up the expense to ~ , n:Ld and ten pounds. The reason of mak i; a Special Jury case was evident; because, in i, is always necessary that there be five , on the part of the Crown, whereas in ordi. cases, there were only three--(Near; hear.), ti given to understand, that the standing nom- , of Special Jurors. in that Court was seventeen, of • the major part were no very imposing free ., and all of whom were paid' on every case. . an array of talent and number of Counsel, side of the Crown, necessarily imposed upon fmdant the necessity of meeting them by an number, which was a great expense. jt Was z,e, that if the Commissioners thought a,sunz of quitesufficiera to atone for the offene6t that the .dart should still be obliged to pay the costs.— sis which was so arbitrarily used by the itor for the Excise, threw into his hand's an et ;l discretion, which was unknoWn to the Con- Lion, and created him, in fact, into Judge and The party, in that case, went into Court, and a verdict given against him. The other wee the a person of vet) , bad character, who set him. lip as a licensed brewer of ale, and cajoled se respectable .tradesmen to sell him molasses,, were prohibited to be sold to a regular :eget, under a penalty of 5001. - but:, 'upon filing iutininat:on against him, in the Exchequer, he qiworsted. and a verdict was given for the de ant, through the exertions of his CounseL-- trientioned this to shew the description of men ' In nd been put foruhard as instruments by tire Ilecutors, to refute their boast that the purest tes., fraay was a l one re li ed upon. The last case was ' °'` a yea son of the name of Underwood, who was 'fir of a small smack at Colchester, called the '' ,o al haat, which he used occasionally for trading ousters. . T his man h a d Been, prevailed upon, in wdcratof some shares:, at sea, to take on board t contraband goods of a notorious smuggler off cos; and wao afterwards gave information to lievenue Ofliceis against hi m , gn d h a d hi s s hi p d Upon this occasion, two distinct courses were '°ved ; one was to condemn the vessel, Ind the to enforce the penalty of hi's bond, which every r °" l ierg . a , . c not to en gage in srigglit:,,,—(hear, h leas latter was a unjust for it should have been 4 . 15 ci !04slur:i.ce of conviction on the other olence. case, however, war brought into , the Exchequer, a n E .ig ish Jury gave a verdint for the defendant, I "er. til t - whole system was exposed, and the prose cr.tit % to , curtfessed to have been a smuggler of four II rue Fears standing—Ocar heart -When the first hay failed , ' ' he Crown Law ? en withdrew the c ults% non the penalty of the bond, after a vain Agit; an us is w° • em ail c. • the 13 .0 10 . t y Of II • o f Lux ss such. 010 IN would i i t , an d ahl g i v e his ' lonou LEI sij Nate • land It w • nal in o ldestl platior ors natn .n of sc the eva • ,ofthel PROS. Jr W. H. fur a -r Cu. the Court not awa d he raise the House it farwart of the egument enihi he was vv it. I d, there twelve u s eJ invs ,ins : First, ~fed to the the Excite e experts this resort y, the g al, at it were c liberty to the hard was that 3 was; by I of one 1. to enab coffee for havir Is quality, . , was d was not t] over th received step can in menu received terms, ; with but ds to offe Jell to U 11( • of the a Dyed that it char of ti - sired into 'lards of 4 made tl when it Lia breach again :,x Law) cast of t; handy ed it a Six sth cases, i ;r,insel on t cases, je was give prof Soeci; slorn the rr alders ; an( great an the side c de! floe gad numb, range, tits IX quite su *nlant 11 ':is iicitor for eit t4tio n ar `t/• The 41a verdi, zbe of a pe 41 up as a respe tith wen `ewer, 11111 inforsna worste.:: .?dAut, ti mention ' 4 Lad 1 Ilea:tors -sour 411 Cr a pt ! t iler Lte oyste rs , ule cum : ..e toast, lteven i 4oe- e u ; '. lll `lt to ear 11,-own,el 43 r). tonseto ; fair case, an Ea critA rue v , "eropt attempt had been nude ice induee.lite deltitiapt to offer a compromise, arta to'ltibniii hiinsdf to the costs, *hie% were the grand object. Yet he cateopoe out of Court safe ; for the casts amouhtedto £.827, which, as the Crown in no instance pays the cost:, necessarily came upon him.• Indeed, it was-held out to him as a solacing teseence, that hecould . piesecute the %an for peijury—(4ear, hear.)--In his opinion, it would be better it charges for such offences were. made before the Commissioners of Excise, who would • have it in their power to modify the penalties. . The. expenses of prosecutions amounted to thousands an nearly. Under the conviction, therefore, that he had said enough to call for inquiry, he should move for a return of the numbcr.of Excise and Custom Infor mations filed in the Court 'of Exchequer, between the Ist of January, 1818, and the Ist of January, 1819, distinguishing the convictions by verdict, from those by, compromise, as well as the costs incurred by the Solicitor of the Excise, and by . Defendants. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, he did not think he should have opposed the motion, if it were not for the speech with which it was accompanied. The Honourable Gentleman had attacked the Com missioners of the Excise, the Solicitor of the Excise, and the humble individual who then had the honour to address the. House (the Attorney-General). He had stated, that prosecutions were begun and carried on in the Court of Exchequer with no view to benefit the public, but for the purpose of loading individuals with costs. But he (the Attorney-General) had con ducted the prosecutions in that Court for the last four years, and if the Honourable Gentleman intended to insinuate, that he had ever considered the costs, not on his own account, but account of any oae—if he meant to state, that he had any other view in carry ing on such prosecutions but for the protection of the revenue and . the public ?room the frauds of smug glers—or that of relieving individuals under pecu liar circumstances—or compromising in cases where' the penalty was heavy, he was actuated by any other motives than the public. good, he must tell him, before that House, and he called his GOD to witness the truth of that deelarazion, that such an imputation was false 1—(1-1e7r, hear, • hear.) — These were Charges of such a nature as should not be brought forward in the British House of Com• mons, where every thing that occurred went forth, as ought to he the case, to the world (Hear, hear!) unless they were founded on nornethieg more than vague conjecture (Hear, hrar, hear!) The Honour-. able Gentleman was a professional man ; but he had surprised him (the Attorney•tenerall that night, by a declaration which seas contrary both ter the law. and the constivioe. He had said, that these causes should be tried either before the local Magistrates in private, or by the Commissioners of the Excise. Ile would be glad to know by what law this could be done? If a man is prosecuted as the owner of a ship engaged in a contraband trade, he must be prose cuted in 'the Conrt of Exchequer. If enfthing was seized, it must be recovered in that Court. The per ; son from whom it has been seized came into that Court for redr. ;s, and his Majesty's Attorney-Ge aeral was bound to file an information, 'upon which the Court proceeded. Here was another point to which the Hon. Gentleman objected—filing informations. He seemed to confound them with those Which were called ex-officio informations, but they were totally distiNt ;' and the former *ere no other than the method ih which the Crown brought actions to re iCover debts. If he (the Attorney-General) brought an action to recover a debt, he should, by.his attor ney, A. or B. complain to the Court; but when the Crown brought an action, in consequence of its high 'dignity and authority, it only informed the Court by the Attorney-General ; and this must be done, nn ;less frauds, such as were every day practised against the Revenue, were alloWed•ta go - unpunished. He l eromu not say that mistakes were never' made in rCrown prosecutions or verdicts had for the defen dants, but during the whole time he had carried on these prosecutions, the verdicts given against the Crown were not one in the hundred—(Hear, hear.) Wherever the least doubt was entertained by the JUry, he always wished the defendant to have the benefit ,of that doubt, and often allowed such doubt to ope rate in his favour, where lie was well convinced in his own mind a verdict should be had for the Crown. By a law of George the First, a writ of Habeas was to be issued by the Barons of the Exchequer to seize the person of the man against whom information was laid, yet not one writ of this kind had been ever issued without an of having been previously filed in corroboration of the information, and sworn before cne of the Barons. Unless some severity and strictness was exercised in the'discharge of the laws against smugglers, it was probable the Revenue would be destroyed, for there was nothing in the power of human in.venuity which was not done to • elude them. The Honourable Gentleman had quoted two or three cases. The first was one in which the health of the lower orders, who were the consumers, as well as the Revenue, was at stike. And in no prose cutions was he so anxious to convict as in instances like that addnced by the Honourable Gentleman. It was tsue the expenses were great ; but a person should only be the more careful not to incur them. In this case, a man who only lent his name and his money to another, was prosecuted for selling vege table powder ; the penalty was 1:109, and because he pleaded his ignorance of the transaction, it w compromised 'on his paying £3O, and indemnifying' the Croivn. Another was that of a small bre.vet. Those small brewers were in the habit of giving, it' their daily beverage to the people, the most daete rions mixture. The great and respectable houses were injured by this practice, because, when they furnished good and wholesome liquor to the retailers, those small brewers furnished them with this mix ture, which was mingled with the good, and both were sold to the unfortunate consumer` under the name of the reseectable how. The third case was that of a tea-dealer. lie was prosecuted for two of fences, selling adulterated tea; and vegetable pow der for coffce. And here he (the Auorney-General) felt called on to say, that in no instance where the article was seized and produced was there ever a ver dict given against the Crown. fn this case the dealtir was acquitted on the charge resPectint, tea, because the Jury did not.belieVe the evidence the Crokn ; but he 'woks foupa guilty ,of seT vegetable powder for eolropohl tketuie Lie artoci stilhal been fortunately 'Oro** the Jurj 0 :KOJI= *4 )F, Mr , * The ganouribk lop • e . . of Catdsofftploya . Vieteitedre five ,C.ottnsel, the I such severhies, the House was berm] to interpese its Atiorney s arsd',diiliciiir4tairal two ring's Counsel s , authority, .and prevent th, abuse. He supposed and a Junior Counsel. Neither he nor his Right Edo.: the motion would be 'granted, (Cries of No, No. and Learhed Friend could be always-in the Court of . from the 2Vinisterial side) at least the words of the Exchequer. It was therefore necessary that the Crown Learned Gentleman seemed to favour such an dpinion, should have learned.and able met in that Court to for he had declared in express terms, that he would carry on these prosecutions in their absence. • With probably have made no ()ejection to the motion if it respect to compromising; he assured the house that were not for the speech with which h was accompa he often wished he had discretionary powers in this nied. Perhaps, however, the more the speeches in its .respect; for nothing could be more difficult, where favour, the greater his disinclination to comply. —(A the penalty was heavy, than to affix that which should 4sughe—The Gentlemesi on the other side. bad come be exacted, so that it should have the effect ofpunish- to the .discussion prepared with every thing but - rea ment, and yet stop short of ruin. It was often his sons—they had all the machinery and apparatus of misfortune to be obliged to prosecute a poor wretch debate, excepting only the arguments.—(A laagh.)— for whom his heart aches In such a case he always It was to be hope4', howeyer,that they would co n de• endeavoered to fi nd ten who was behind the 'curtain, scen d in time to sheer what inconvenience would at.- that he might, as he could not reach him, so propor- tend the paseing of the motion, for, on the other side. e tion the penalty that the merciless master might not case s of ha r d s h i p w e r e m a d e out hich had received allow the miserable instrument to r to jail for it. no contradictions-e(heqr, hear). • Mr. WAITIIMAN guarded against the possibility TheSOLICITOII-G E a:1:'1 AL defended the course of any thing which fell from him being misconceived adopted by the Attorney-Geller el, which he contend by the Honourable and Learned Gentleman, who, ed was called* n- by the mode in vshich the Motion he contended, .had not answered any of the state- had been brought I.)rtvard. The motion did appesr meats made by the Honourable Mover of the ques- to cast an imputatien upon the Lase Officers of ti e tion. He gave his testimony to the merits of the Crown, and if the Attorney-Gees:sal displayed any lion. and Learned Gentleman—he had long known warmth it was exensuble ;no green.' had been laid him, and believed him to be made up of kindness for the motion, and it was not for the 'reuse to graiii and mercy towards all, always endeavouring, as far motions without sedieicnt cause. Ile then undertook. las his duty permitted, to soften the severity of the to review the these cases aliesed bf the Mover, and laws. But he had mistaken all that the Honourable contended that in none of these transactions could Mover had-said. The attack was net against indivi- any blame attach to those who usually instituted pro duals, but against the whole system, mid the Learned ceedinge in the Exchequer. He then adverted to the Gentleman had used no other, argument to its de- case stated by the Worthy Alderman (Waithmae), is fence, than that it was such as be had found it— which the Honourable Meniber had been personally (Near, hear.) He had said nothing_ respecting the concerned: Proceedings, it appeared, had been inea , enormous expense which - attended Exchequer prose- toted against the Worthy Alderman for having illicit cutions. He had contended, that no injustice was goods in his shop, aficlehe asserted that those preceea done to individuals, because only a necessary duty ings had been founded in the grossest perjury.. If was fulfilled, that of carrying the law into execs- such were the case, why did riot the Worthy Alder don. But -he had forgotten to state, that'a person man proceed 'against those perjured conscirators eval dragged into the Court of Exchequer without against his property and character, at law? It was knOwieg for what offence, when it had been corn - true the Worthy Alderman might not he cognisant of se witted, or who was the informer. He then detailed the fact, but his partner, or some person connected his own case, in which an information had been laid with him in his business, had introduced into his 'against him on account of a piece of India haudker- house illicit goods—(Mr. Waithman here rose, but the chiefs, which had never been in hid house, and the cry of " Order" n;sts so general, he sat down). He did value of which was not . above thirty shillings.-- not proceed against the ccnspirators, but with the The penalty demanded was £2OO. Let the ll,cnour- advice of his Counsel, he compromised the matter, able and Learned Gentleman, who was so strict in and actually paid gloo.—Dlr. Waithman intimated certain cases, look round him in Courts of Justice, that he had spoken of another transaction.)—Then, and he would see, nay mast have seen the Judges pull- continued the Solicitor-General, there were two cases. 'log India handkerchiefs out of their pocket. Let him Alderman WAITIIMAN said, he was sorry to in then do his duty, and not suffer the King to be terrupt the debate, but the Honourable and Learned robbed—(Laughter.) For ix months before he (Mr. Gentleman was mis-stating the entire transaction— Weidman) had heard any thing en the subject, it (Hear,• hear, hear). A servant had brought into the had been rumoured that he had been exchequered to }house a piece of handkerchief, for the accommoda e the amount of £20,000, and these rumours had been tion of another person, privately. This was seised the cause e of much injury to him. At last informa- by the Excise, and he was induced to pay £lOO and tions had come against him to the amount of £2OOO costs to the amount of £150; but the other charge or £3OOO, and he could not find out who had given .brought against him he had resisted. the information, nor what articles were in contem- ThiSOLICITOR e GENERAL said, he was very elation. The cause of this was, that a latitude of three unfortunate in the facts of the case—(Neer; hear, and years was allowed to lay the' information, and it Much laughterfroat the sition). He was prevent was done when all inquiry must prove fruitless.— 'eel from proceeding fiat: by He had memorialized the Commissioners of Excise, The ATTORNEY-GENERAL, who rose and al oud obtained a compromise, by which the penalty luded to a second proceeding which had been insti ad been reduced to 1001. but he had his own costs tutted against a house in trade, of which he said Mr. to pay, to the amount of 1501. So that he would Alderman Waithman was a member. have saved 501. if lie had suffered the Original penalty . Aldermen WAITHM AN said, the facts, as stated ' to have been levied upon him. The Attorney-Gene•*; by the Attorney-General, 'were not correct. Sal had then abandoned the other informations, de- The SOLICITOR-GENERAL again rose, and else claripg that he was ashamad cf the whole.—rerei served, th .t no ground had lasen laid for the motion,. ` the ATTORNEY-GENERAL said across the table " I which, as it irrputed Lamle le the existing system, he was convinced that there was a fraud, but that you should oppose. :yourself were ignorant of it."3—Mr. WAITHNIAN re- Sir M. W. RIDLEY said the last speaker opposed sumed. He contended drat the goods were not con- the motion because it went to impute blame to the 'traband, and only mentioned the cue to sheik how Officers of the Excise. For drat very reason he would :an innocent man might be ruined by the mere ru- support it... He should do this, because the character mour that he had been Exchequered to the amount of a most respectable individual (the Solicitor to the of 20,0006 He maintained that the laws on that Excise) had been called:in question, who lie was sure ' subject ought to be reformed, and that reform was would court inquiry into his conduct. only opposed because it would deprive many indivi- Mr. WILLIAM SSIITII would state -three cases duals of half their fees—(Hear, hear).—He knew with respect to winch application had been made to nothing - of the cases mentioned by the Honourable him, and he had made application to. the Treasury, Mover, but that they had been attended with enore for whom, he must sae; that they had shees-n every mews expense. If the abuses complained of existed, disposition to listen and 'to admit their error,— the production of the Papers moved for would not be The Solicitor-General 'had ;aid, that the Crown had necessary. If they did not, it became Government never offered to compromise hut in Court. The first to bring them forward to make their case clear to the case he had to 'state was that of a house of large public—(Hearehear).—But so far from having come credit, which was charged with a penalty of 1,5001. to any decision on the subject, the Honourable and or 2,0001. " I (said the Honourable Member) being Learned Gentleman had sat down illithout saying consulted, desired them by all means to inform the whether he i should vote for or against the motion. Solicitor of Excises (not the present), that they set Mr. TIERNEY expressed great surprize at. the him at defiance. ' The Solici tor offered to compro angry tone with which,his Learned Friend (the At- mise upon payment of costs. No, said I, by no torneyeGeneral) had met . one of the 'clearest states means. The whole was dropt. If the house had .ments he had ever heard.. It seemed to he a warn- been that of. an inferior or smalt dealer, it must have ing to those who disapproved of any existing system, sunk under this charge."—(Hear, hear.)—The nest in what measured terms it was neceisasy for them to case was one which his lamented friend (Sir Samuel speak, in order to avoid the wrath of certain Gene Romilly) had put into his hands. Sdme small dealer tlem,en, and to prevent their attack upon the system. in the west of England paid 30/. penalty, and 901. I from being tortured into an aspersion upOrt indivi- odd, costs. Upon - this case he had seen the briefs, duals--(Hear' hear )-- He had heard nothing in the and large sums had been charged, he had himself speech of the Honourable Mover . that coup bear in seen it, to four or five Counsel —( Hear, hear :) — Those the most remote ' degree upon ;he conduct ..of the abuses ought to be remedied. Such fees to Counsel, Learned Gentleman, or represent him in.anyother if charged against an individual, were cruel; if light than as a conscientious officer of the Crown, against the public, they were a scandalous waste of anxious to discharge his duty to the Public...He had public money. The last case he would mention, and imself listened with great jealousy to the speech of a cruel case it had been, was that cf a very ingenious the Honourable Gentleman ; it was right to do so, manufacturer in Yorkshire, who had diecovered a .il because-every attack upon a system rested on an est- new mode of manufacturingemalts. When his =- parte stasement ; but though he had listened with nufacture had arriated 4 sit a certain degree of, perfec .Jealousy to the charge, and waited patiently for the' tion, the Officers of Luise seized upon it. He en answer, no answer was given. It was much to he treated that they would not remove the materials, lamented that a great degree of rig our was neces- but they carried them all away. The Treasu ; y, con.- sty to the maintenance of those laws. Unfortn- vinced of his innocence, ordered all to be returned; - stately the condition of the country required a heavy but they were returned incalculably. diminished in taxation, which could net be collected without great value. He died of a broken heart, ;laving ie vain rigour ;he should not therefore object to the sys- solicited restitution cf his property. The Officers tern, unless it appeared that unnecessary semi- were , justified in law, but it was • a cruel abuse—. rities had been exercised under it—(Hear, hear):—. (Hear, hear ;)--Suttansum jus, :untrue ijuria 1 • The Honourable Gentleman .who brought forward The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the motion had stated instances of meat unnecessary that in the case referred to by Mr. Smith, the pro expense and hardship to individuals, and not one of pertyof the unfortunate man bad been seized by the these cases was contradicted or explained. Here the Excise Ofificesa. in the ordinary discheree of their Honourable Member recapitulates' all the cases in- duty. His property bad been restored, lot no repa iroduced by the Honourable Mover, from which he ratiou could be made for the injury be had' sustained, inferred that inquiey was necessary. -The last case in and not .the- nitaitegaiaroe attached to the parties' _ _ . I BV:liiiie had nothing information' present frtithes: wOultd "otettif . thp order con- er a vet--' inferred that inquiry was necessary. Abe last case in . and not rue smallest uame, attacnect to the pa the tea-1 which two informations weretommenced at the same concerae4 iu the seizure. 'Bir i trii'ais case hair not ring the time for one offence, he insuinced. as a trick. to. in- to do.with. the present raolitin... • lence for . crease law expetes.. lie_fully.acquitted the. . Mr. LUSHINGTON oppfeed the motion. * selling Gentleman of any inotiae of the. hind whenever he information might have Is4* ( oly4iiid4 l44 l the tide was concerned, but some , Orli!tn interested in these tiontitae 'Gentleman call 3, for .specitit inform art, and : iensaipments mutt haVe MeW Ott.. NiPif elte lOW.. on s ific - cases.' than the Ogden as at present frit f *O4 Islip complained of pitglicliita imam+ apolusi eat I we patiduce, thot to eenvi,itrivitS wt ft uld `oc:C numbei s iortbe system, but If it could be carried op. without 'the Clerks of the Department to which the order g ail A ,: