Star. — London, England, 1805-06-21 00:00:00

one or can pasts or the world, arieiy fpeaking ; and whenever they did cfcape they were always inre to have tlier own apprehenfions fulfilled in having a pritifh fquadroii clufe at their heels. InftruiSlions had been previoully given to our naval commanders tor that purpofe, and they had accordingly gone in quell of them,but were not fortunate enough to have a knowledge of their courfe. This was Paid to be a ctimiral negligence in Minaters, but it-was impoffible that any thing beyond a general outline could be known ; it was impoffible to enter into the heart of the Chief Governor of France. • A friendly union with Foreign Powers couldnatimmediately bebrought about ; and therefore, as to that principal point of the Honourable Gentleman's fpeech, it would be innre advifable, it would be more likely to promote the intetells of our country, it would be more likely to incratt e whatever Influence Government might I:dve in the Councils of Foreign Nations, to fee that a ltritiih Parliament repofed a becoming degree of ,:nntidence in the Government of their Country. The fum, however, was taken by anticipation, and was probably over-rated. Bat it would be teen by a reference to the journals of the Houfe, that fuch a proceeding was not without precedent, as on the 6th of June 1799, the film of three millions was voted n ye the hope of an alliance that was ther. unformed. Mr. WINDHAM °braved, that the quetlion to be cenlidered on this oceafion was not as the Noble Lord who juft fat down bed fisted it, Whether the amount of the fans propofed to be voted was neteiTary, or whether that him would be properly applied, but whethe7 tinder all the circumttances of the country, it would be proper that Patliament thuuld be pro ogled. It was not nicatit to be argued, not had any thing of the kind been laid by his Honourable Friend who opened the debate, that Minit ers could or ougbt to make any cotimunicatio.n to the Heinle at prefent, with regard to any' negociations they might be en gaged in with foreign powers. But this be would maintain, that in ordtr 'eo afford the opportunity of nuking the earlieft petinble communication upon that important fubjetit, Parliament thould not be proro gued — that was the prailiol'queftion at iffue. But the objenion to comply with the motion was, it teem ed that latch compliance world imply i want of con fidence in his 14ajefty's Minifters. ,To that; how _ ere►, he would fay, that the conidenee demanded was more than they or any other Miners were en• titled to tiaim. What! that Parliament thould pirate; leaving the country in fuch a (late ' &trona dedwith fuch menacing dangers, and fo inadequately provided to meet them. Every man out of doors' sun feel furprife that .the thought could be enter tained for a moment at fuch a cribs. Every man' mua fay that we are at prefent in fuels a fituation that it was impotlible to conceive what plan of pro ceeding Government had in contemplation—at what point their policy was levelledor to what it - was likely to lead—whether to peace or the ferious pro. fecution of the war. Nobody could tell or divine, though all were naturally anxious to afcertain their tibiae. At a doe, then, that fuch doubt and anxiety prevAled, ard that there wat fo little dill. volition t , confide to the diferition of his Majefly's Minitlets 3 could it be ferionfly urged that it would be wig Pariament to feparate ? lithe perfonal con. veni,nce of Members were offered as a ground for proregotion, he would fay with his Hon. Friend, that Inch a confideration was not to be put in compc tition with the :arms that miffed upoi the Honk to continue fitting. The congderation of perfonal con venience was indeed unworthy to be aUedged in that Houle agAinli the performance of a glat,public duty, when, t.- by the ball , the afFyira the Empire; upon a gtner.:l view, were in Etch a &nation that Parliament o.rght to continue. in a nate of immediate fuperiote- dance. To continue would not, be main tained, imply any undue want of confidence in his m A jeiry', Minillers. But they profeifed to-be of a diffirent 'pinion, and appeared principally to ma their oppo s ition to the motion upon that bafis: The claim to confidence upon the part of Mini fiers on this occation, naturally led him into an examination of the grounds upon which their title was fuflained, and this examination hi: Conce;red to refer to topics which mull have a double cperation, &ft, with re fpea to the motion before the Houk, and, fecondly, with terpeCt to the fituation of the country. Now as applying to both thole topics, it was to be obferved that there was a remarkable difcnrdancv between what had taken place fince Ministers came into office, and what they promikd at the time they Accepted office They certainly did not fulfil what they fo frequently promiled ref - peeling the army. the inefficiency of which was the prominent feature of the charge urged agairslt their predecef fors. Still the army, which generally formed a Ma terial ingredient in war, was in this peculiar war in which the country was emzaged, almolt wholly negleCted, that is with regard to a provi lion for its perm Intent fupply. Upon this head Minlacrs had certainly rather broken their pledges to Parliament and the country, and this was the more deferring of notice when it was recollefted that the inattention of their predtcetfors to the army was the principal taafe of their removal from office, and the principal article of accufation ton exhibited againti them by Come of the Indent Ministers. This marked inattention to the army he Confidered quite a fufficient ground, at leaß of diftruft, in his Majelly's Minillers ; and it un doubtedly occalinned much gloom and difcontent throughout the et.untry. On this (*tibial he cautioned the Houfeagainil the exaggeratetillatement which the Noble Lord had made as to the amount of Our force. He did not mean that this (brerent was exaggerated by ffie Nimble Lord; bet he wifhed to imprefs on the :inure thepropriety of anai yzing Inch Ratement before 4 attached much importance to it. The Noble Lord bad bid that our difpofable force had received an in creafe within the year of no leis than 35,000 men.— Tint the quellion was,of rb rt kind was that increafe? —We had heard of a transfer of from 15 to 15,000 men from the Militia; but of what fort were the remainder of the augmentation ? Were they of fuch a delcription as the corps talked of at New Brunfwick or Ceylon if they were, they furely formed no material addition to a regular army, although they might (well a ttatement. As to the addition which the army received from the militia, they could claim no credit for that addition, who frequently contended that the militia were as efficient and as material t r the firength of the country as the regular artny....- But in point of fad, bowever Minifiers might vaunt ut the increafe w!•;ch had taken place in the regular army, there *me no means adopted that promifed regular and efficient fupply. This was the genera Complaint. The militia had &minted a periodical re- fource; to,ooo men had been obtained from Hanover. gut then no permanent refeurce was provided : the men the army had got were not procured by recruit ink, nor by an y f e t t l e d fyftern that was likely to con tinue productive. No ; the means by which the army was augmented furniffied the extent of their capacity once for all; and the army teas abfolutely left in future to depend for fupply on accidenr s or Whs. —The Noble Lord, the Right Hon-Gentleman ob ferved, had palled on from the Army to the Navy, and gone into as it were the details of two years , na val campaigns. Bnt without following the Noble Lord through all, or any of his details, the general . refult was before the eyes of Parliament and the country, and upon that general !Welt every man could decide. Among all the viciffitudes of war, among all the-gloomy and di (Wafting profpeas which the prefent war prefented, Parliament and the people were accußomed to hear and derive confolation from the thought that Great Britain had the dominion of the teas. But how did the cafe now Rand? The fleets of the enemy were ow in various directions. A formidable force was gone we knew not where— the ball was [hot, and where it might hit, time alone could tell us, but that it was likely to give our domi nions a fevere wound, there was too much reafon to dread. Apprehenfions were entertained for Ireland, the Indies, Etc. Public anxiety eagerly fought the enemy's dellination, but all was fufpence and uncer tainty. The people , were *neafv, and the Govern ment was ignorant.—The . Right HoHottrable Gen tleman expreffed a hope and anxious wiffi, that not withftanding the ptefent Rate of things, particu larly with refpeet to the French fleet, tb country thould have nothing more in the etrd to complain of, but the I mifmanagement of Minillers, pr to in quire about the efficiency or inefficiency of the tyf tent of blockade. Every Briton mull naturilly feel glad if the effete of the prefent alarming. pmfpeas fhould at leek be reparable, and that it thould not prove that we had an infecure hold of the dominion of the lea. But he could not help laying that the ap pearance of our affairs was by no means calculated to encourage confidence, furl as the Noble Lord endeavoured to excite by a Ratentent that, however, it might tell at a Court Martial, could make but little unpreffion upon that Houfe, of the thoughtful pert of the publie.—The Noble Lord's view of our 40 1 0 A le, the Itiotht Honourable Gentleman Rated his dinixlination to enter into, becaufe he did not dunk thailuirt of his fpeeeh very Material to the prefent queliion. But yet, there , was One [bolt remark which he begged to fubmit. The Noble Lord, in his endeavour to account for the non-per formaoee of that Mil:liter's promife, who (aid, that for a Certain period no inersafe of our debt would take place. Rated indeed, that the difappointment of the expeCtatioo excited by that promife (if any one did ferioufly rely on it), aide' from this, that the expenditure was higher than the fum provided. Why it would have anfwered the Noble Lord's pur pofe quite as well to have Paid that the income was not equal to the expenditure (a loch.) But the fad was, that both did not meet, and this (hewed that the Min;Rer did not fulfil his promife. This of eau& furniffied a further reafon for diftruß in Minifters.-.. But the ilrongeft ground for difiruß area. from the Rate of the army. If it.were Paid that this Rate was not wholly chargeable to the piefent Minißers, he would admit it ; for it *mild have been impoffilsle for them fince their. acceffion to power, to have repaired what their predeceffors have done, and to have fup plied what thofe predeceffors had left undone. Bet yet the prefent Minifters might have put meafures in motion, and thofe meaftnes might have been now in i progrefs, to remove the evil complained of. This, however, was not the cafe. The army was left to wage away, unlefs fume chance arafe—unlefs fome lucky God-fend offered to fupply it—unieCs Lure other country like Hanover fell into the hands of the enemy, from which we might be able to obtain fome force. This was a melancholy confideration, for jut in proportion as our danger puffed—whether it was our object to conclude a peace or carry on a war with vigour, a formidable army was effentially neceffary. With all the Noble Lord's obfervations refpeaing the propriety of ebitivating a ‘ continental connexion, the Right Hon. Gentleman expreffed a decided concur- I rence. He remembered, however, when quite a diffe rent fend inent preiailed in that Htrufe, and when lame Gentlemen jultißed the Peace of Amiens, in conk quence of its tendeticy to put an end to fueh connec tions. But he was glad to witnefs.the change that now appeared, and that Gentlemen were bees:me fen fible of the propriety of continental connea.ions for this country. Neceffity was a harfh teacher, but then Ile was not a bad one. Much is the Houfe had heard of I the pride and honeßy of (landing alone, it was now found that folitude in danger was not a very confoling catxtion. After having made ufe of taunting language —after having endeavoured, under the affeetation of magnanimity and lofty profeffions, to cover the in difcretion, and even the treachery of deferring and infulting our continental friends, it was no* felt ne eclaty to retort to them, to court them. Some of them, however, were not to be foUnd. Sardinia was now no more ; and others were in fetters. But fuck as felt any with towards us fhould be fought after, and their fupport conciliated if poffible. There were powers to which Minifters might look for aid, with lamb hope of fixed's. Whet they bad done yet in this lay thty declined, perhaps very properlf, to cote- • menicate to the Houfe. But their declining to do fo, and the neceffity of the continental concert looked for, formed confiderations to (hew that Parliament fhould continue to tit to watch the manner in which the Minillers tbould exercife the power veiled in their hands, and to receive the earließ intelligence of the refult of their negotiations. in the ape. nion of the Noble Lord, however, the want of coos' fidence in Minifters which, according to his judgment.' the adoption of the motion would infer, was a jult,l ground of **Rion. Becaufe, as the Noble Lord ar-* gued, to rehire confidence to Minifters at prefent would fie to reduce them ib the eftimation of the country, Rill more of foreign courts, and thus injure the progrefs of the peading negotiations. If fuel an argument, however. were admitted. it would operate for univerfal confideneeia Meiners. , But it became neceffary to take a corafe between two extremes— to take away from Minutiae a Part of the power of doing good left they theuld.do harm. It was one of the dtfad vintages of our Connittition, and of every other nation it which theft elated a popular Afes/t, bit, that the GovernMent mull have a limited cone dente. This difadvantage, however, was more than compenfated by the advantages relishing from fuch an arrangement. But this was a slifadvantage of which all Minifters might equally complain, loran Minifters were fubjea to the fame controul; and, in order to facilitate the exercife of that controul, their powers were li mited. To preferve this fidutary controul over the proceedings of Minifters at the prefent important junaure, it was his with that Parliament fhould not be prorogued. As to the Noble Lord's quotation of precedents, of which he teemed very fond, the Right Honourable Gentleman obferved, that the Noble Lord often reforted to them, where, in point of fall, they did not form a proper criterion. When the No ble Lord alluded to the army, inftead •of dwelling upon the peculiar (late of the country, and its capa city to produce a large military force; he went back , to other periods, and infiltuted a comparifon between times aid cireurollances, having no analogy what eier. But whether, in confiituting an army or de mending. confidence, it was the Noble Lord's plea- Lure to refort to precedents, it however happened, that the precedent which he had quoted on this oc canon could not avail him ; for there were not merely " fhades of difference," as the Noble Lord ex preffed it, between the eircumilatv.es under which the vote of 3,000,000, palled in t 70, and thole which et iged at prefent; but the , / were effentially different. In the former inftance the fum voted was not only much lefs than that now prolsOfed, but the negocia. don was aanally concluded, and the line of proceed ing clearly marked ant, and our continental connec tion!: afcertained.. How' then, independently of any confiderat;on arifing from a difference as to our clan gets, could a comparifon be Paid to,lie as to the two periods ? There was, in truth, no equality that could juftify the application of the Noble Lord's pre cedent. Without recolleaing all the details, there was, perhaps, one particular- reafon why that rece dent was nor applicable. It was rather probable that, although there was an individual in the pre fent Adminiftration who alto belonged to the Ad• miniftration of 170, Parliament and the Country had much more confidence in the Adminiftration of Om than they were willing to grant to the prefent. Whether looking to the motion cn the broad ground of public fafety, or to the degree of confidence due to Minifters, the Right Hon. Gentleman decidedly thought that It ought to be acceded to. Parliament would defect its duty if it invelled Minifters with on- limited power. at fuch a erifis as the precept Of it left to them the whole management of poblic affairs; if it allowed a vaR ftin:t of money to be difpofed of according to their direaion. If all ,this *as to be fubmitted to, merely in order that the prorogatiori fhould be -preferred to adjournment, it tnull excite the furprize and difcontent of the Country. The Rig'ht Hon. Gentleman concluded with recapitulating his feveral arguments, and Rating that the dangers of the country were fueh, that whether it was Meant to continue the war, or take a temporary refuge in peace, it was become neceffary always to have io contemplation that we had to contend with art enemy who followed the ambition of the ancient Romans, without emulating their virtues (if virtues they could be calledj, who.in faa entertained the fame vie* of univerfal dominion.. Into many topics of the Noble Lord's fpeech, the Right Hon. Gentleman.cleclined to enter for the prefent, particularly that which re lated to the army, as an opportunity for fully difcuf ling that fubjed would offer in a few days. Mr. CANNING law no advantage that could be derived from the adoption of the propofition before the Honfe. For if the Meeting of a Parliament fhould at any time be wiceffart, tt might be convoked with fuffi , :ient promptnefs and facility even after the ' prorogation. To keep the Member, in town at this lea fon did not appear to him to promife any particular public gond,while it might be produaive of great pub lic mil - chief. As to the turn propofed to be voted in confequence of his Majefly's Meffage, he could not fee why his Right Honourable Friend &mid :Mune that it would amount to five millions. The Right Ho nourable Gentleman deprecated the idea of fixing a fufpicion on his Majeßy's Minifters, by adopting a motion fo contrary to general cullorn as that before the Honfe, and proclairhing.to the country and fel reigri courts, that they were Unworthy of confidence. What the Gentlemen on the other fide could propofe to obtain by preffing this motion, and preventing pro. rogation, he confeffed himfelf quite unable to compre. bend. If It was their objea to difcufs and improve the. Rate of the army, they would have a full oppOr cooky of communicating their defigns on Monday next, for upon that day the Houfe was :flare that a great authority was to come forward with great military plans—in confequence of which the ffelEon might elofe with a new military fyltem, that fhould do away all the blunders that had heretofore been committed; that Omuta fet a new military machine in motion quite free from blemills, and iacapable of oblirurlion; chat lkonld, in faa, render it unneceffary for Parlia =into for years, again to confider a military fubjea. (Mane we Me Mocker Mimi Me Mitufler.) If it wts the with of Gentlemen to enquire into the fyitem of 'blockade as applicable to the efcape of the Toulon fleet, with a view to attribute blame w Miniliers, he called upon them to inftitule the enquiry immedi ately, and they would Rod that LOrd Nclfon's Fleet was more than adequate, in every refpe9, to the French.fleff, Of eourfe, than adequate provilion was madi on the part of Minifters in that quarter. The Right Honourable Gentlsman combated the various arguments of his Right Honourable Friend in favour of the motion, and contended that two thirds of his Hon. Friend's (peed) made againit the motion. From the motion itfelf, he fa* no good that could arife— nor could he conteive it to have any other objea in vkii, thaw to exprefs a little fpleen, and to proclaim an unfounded want of confidence in his Majefly's Minifters. Mr. WINDHAM Rated in explanation, that his meaning was, that Parliament fhould continue to fit, and not vote the money required, until it should prove to be aaually neceffary-thus any improper confidence in Minifters would be guircied *pion. Lord TEMPLE fupported the motion of his Ho. nourable Friend at great length, and particularly ar gued, that, if his Majefly was not yet in a fituation that enabledhim to, make any communication to the Honfe, refpealng his Foreign Relations, they fhould at kat continue to fit, and by that means be iii the fame fituation as. at the beginning of the Stilton.— Wbat they wanted was, that they Ortuld not be put out di a &illation is Which they Might receive iommlioi- IP •I cations when ready to- be mnde. The (urn lei: at the difpofal of the Minilicr, trrs no doubt great but it was not the amount to whicir he objected—it was to the principle, which he reg arded as uncond tutional and unprecedented. The Vote of Credit alluded to in the year 17 . 99, was very different. There was in that cafe a fp ecific object to which the money was to be applied. There WAS an esilling alliance and an engagement had been formed ; but here there was no precife objet fubmited to the Houfe. The one was a real, the other an eventual expence. There was a great difference, he contended, between adjournment and prorogation. In the one cafe they were certain or the day of meeting ; but in the other, whatever might Oe the fituationof the cr untry, whatever calls there might befor the di aribution of the public money, the , ' cnpaid have no controul over it. • Mr. FOX then role and delivered his fentiments at confiderable length. The coellion before the Houle, he faid, was one of Inch importance, one foiutimately conneted with the privileges of Parliament, that he could not reconcile it to his duty to give a fleet vote, though his Hon. Friend had evinced fo much ability in his opening obfervations,'las in a great meafure to have exhaufled the firbjeet. He fully agreed with ' what had been advanced about the Rate of our fi- nances, and maintained, that fence the recommence ment of botlilitiec, eighty millions had been added to our national debt. When the war broke out as affurance Was given that no more money would be required fir thl public fervice than what the pay ments of the Curnmillioners for Difchiiging the Na tional Debt could completely cover, and that promife had heed grofsly fair:tied, and the Noble Lord came forward with a moil carious anfwer on the occafion. He contended, that all which was meant by the pro mile was, that if our expenditure fliould fuffer no in creafe, or, in other words, if what we had to defray were kept within certain limits,we fhould not be under the neceffity of b atowing additional money. This was ahfohriely trifling the feelings of the Houfe, and at the time the promVe was given Minifters mutt have • forefeen that vall additional expences were indifpeo-* fible. But, Pays the Noble Lord, marital there are two years of war, and two filch years of war 1 For his part he had yet to learn what thefe two years of war had produced, of what exertions had been to ac c,lmplifh the end- of the conceit. It was indeed impoflible to look forward to two yeari of greater abv fence of all adivity or energy. Refpeeing the Elate of the army, he thould make only one or two obfer l 'pions. The fubjed was to come before the Houfq in a more regular form in a few days, and he had no doubt, from the high talents of the Hon. Officer whtl was to bring the bioinefs under confideration, &tint much important and valuable ir formation world be received. The Houfe, indeed, txithout being very linguine;, could reefunably hope for tome plan far More efficient than any which the Right Honour able Gentleman's Parifh Bill affected to furnith. Of that Bill he might fafely apply Dr. Johnfon's obfer. ration of one of Poems of Offian. He was stilted, if the Poem was not the authentic production at Man, who could be the author ? His anfwer--. Many men, many women, and many childeren." He corroborated what Mr. Grey had Rated of thd increafe in fair naval tot ce, and animadverted very feverely on the efedpe of the Toulon and itcxthermre fqnadronr, without being at all traced by our crui zers. As to the fyftem of blockading, he believed it was neither univerfally right nor univerfally wrong, but this he would fay, that the blockade of Tooled appeared to have been firangely neglefted. He be4 l : Red it to he underitood, that he was far from infino . .. acing any thing to the prejudice of Lord Nitr'jp, whom, on the critrary, he believed to be one or, t h e moltgallant as well as vigilant Officers in dm fervice. After the French fleet efcaped out of Toul on in Ja nuary, Minifters ought to have known tha t they bad come out of the Mediterranean, and th•at there was a F reat number of troops on board. A 'World time Knitters ought to have been &met apprised of their intended movement ; h , tt in March the fleet again make their efcape, and I_:ord Nelfon is left in total ignorance of their ccurfe. They arrive undiflurbed at Cadiz, drive off our blockading fquadron, effect a jam:lion with the Spaniards, Fail again, and now, after an interval of near 'three months, Miniflets cannot even form a conietture of their deftination. —This betrayed the utmost degree of fupinenefs, ignorance, and inattention to the molt important de partment of the public fervice. Mr. Fox next touched on the tlate of Irelind, and though he ad mitted its fit - nation to be confiderably improved, declared, that in his opinion its tranquillity wend{ never be fully fecured, till Catholic Emancipa tion Oxould be conceded. He paid rome compli ments to the character of Lord Hardwicke, though there were eircurnfrances in his conduct, which it was impoffible for him n•)tto condemn. His temperance and moderation had prodliced confiderable benefite, but he Was thwarted in his views by other individuals, high in the frith Government. As long as one Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Foliar) continued to have any influence, the ()hieds of the Lord Lieute nant could never be fully accomplillied. He earnestly recommended to Miniders to take fome Reps to man. quillize effetitially the people of Ireland. There were many local improvements fhort of abfolute eman cipation, which were highly important, and thole who refufed the one were bound, even in common juiliee, to concede the other. After going over thee heads the Honourable Member took op the dired confideration of the fubjed. He could not , as an honeft Member of the Houfe, content to grant any part of the public money without knowing to pnrpofe it was to he applied. Here, however, X not a tittle of information to guide the opinion of the Node. Neither the nature of the confidential relations, the exifience of any treaty, or even the names of the conic-aiding panics were at all fpeciAed. He did not mean to fay, that Minifiers were culpa. ble for withholding the information. All that he alked was, let the Honk adjourn from time to time, till it can with fefety be communicated. Bin it was aid, there was no difference betwixt a prorogation and an adjournment.—The difference was hiking. The one was the ad of Minilteia, and the other was the aft of the Houfe ilia He was at all times a foe to implicit confidence, and he had additional re lons fir not giving confidence to his Idaleity's confi dential let Tants. Pe r eetobated the manner in which they originally came together, and fpoke in terms of indignation of their aukward refignations, and their curious reconciliations on no better grounds. He lamented the cailtasse of a Oast of minas* at this MIN