Star. — London, England, 1802-05-13 00:00:00

MR. FOX'S MECH, BY AUTHORITY. This slay was published, price Sixpence, SUBSTANCE of the SPEECH of the Hon. C. J. ROL on moving • N. -v Writ for the BOROUOI rAvisTocK, hlarch 14. a:l.—Pr:4l,a. by Authority. Painted for J. Lehrer . . tn - poSte Beington•Houfe, Plcesdi 1, Of whom may be had. The LETTER of the lino. CHARLES JAMES PDX to the ELECTORS of WEsTAUNSTER, with an Ail lea tioo of its Principles to ulsesit Events. Bl ROLE T ADAIR, Efq. M.P. Price 3s. 6d. PARLIAMENTARr PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF LORDS. WEDNESDAY, MAY is. Collard were further heard, and at eonfiderable length relative to the Scotch Appeal, Hog w Thwaites. The Courifel were ' ordered to proceed again on Lido , . The hall. before the Hotife were forwarded in their Wpm tlve flages—vuloug which was the EleCtion Treating Bill, read a fccood time and committed for Tucfday next, on which oc eafion their Lordfidps were ordered to be rum:toned. Seventeen Bills, anion which were the Militia Pay Bill, the Norwich Poor, and fix Return Bills were brought up from the Commons by Sir Grolas Sueetsueon, Mr. DICIMNSON Mr. FArit, Lord GIORGI CAVENDISH, Mr. SAVILLI, and other Gentlemas ; theft Bills were feverally read a Slit time. Sevezil Accounts refp:.4 the Importation of Logwood from the Bay of Honduras, Mahogany, Re. were prekntcd from the Infpeetor General's Office, in purfuance of a recent Motion of Lard Gan net sta. _ . . . Some private Banners was difpnfed of :—after which their LordfLipe &teamed till to-morrow—when the Houfe Rands ftunmaned for the purport of taking the Definitive Treaty of Peace into canfidentlaa. HOUSE OF COMMONS. The Report of the Committee on the Bill for improvement of she Entrance into the City at Temple Bar, was mil and agreed to. and the Bill ordered to be engrafted. Mr. W. ELLioT prefented fcvcral Accounts from the Ad- miraity. Ordered to lie on the Table. Mr. J. MARTIN prefented a Petition from the Mahan of Tewkdbury and of Glouceiter, againft the Mak Duty Bill en adted this Seffion. Ordered to lie on the Table. MI. VA N SITTART brought in the Lottery Bill, which was read a AA, and ordered to be read a fecond time on Friday. The Reports of the Committees on the Franking Bill, the Lottery Licence Bill, and the Medicine Duty Bill, were brought up by Mr. ALRIANDIR. and Bills ordered purfuant thereto. The SIC TTTTTT at Woa brought up the Bill for the con tinuance of the Mutiny 11111..—0 n the fame principle, the Right Moo. Gentl.mtan Rated, as at the Peace of 1783, be timid pro pofe the continuance of this AR only for one month. The BM was read a lira, and ordered to be read a fecond time to morrow. Mr. W. E Lime brought up the Marine Force Regulation Bill. Read a brit, and ordered to be read a fecond time to morrow. The confideration of the Militia Bill was, on the Motion of the SICRITARY at WAR, pOltpOned to Friday. The &MILITARY at WAR brought in the BM to authorize his Majefty to accept the ferviees of certain Volunteer Corps. Read a Brit, and ordered to be read a fecond time on Monday, and to be ',ranted. Ordered on the Motion of Mr. VANIITTA"..T, that the Charges for the Allowance of the Adjutants and Selo:ant Ma jors of the difembodled Militia lhould be defrayed out of the produce of the Land 'tax. The Houk rcfumed, and the Report was ordered to be re vived to-morrow. Mr. BUXTON prefented a Petition from the Sierra Labe Company, praying aid. Referred to a private Committee. Lord klowxasau r prefented an Account of the Produce of the Revalue of Malt previous to :798. Ordered to lie on the T;.ble. IRMO LOAN. The Houfe having refolved into a Committee of Ways and Means, Mr. CORRY rofe and Rated, that in difcharging his duty upon this occafion, he Ihould confine him. fell thialy to the notice he had given on a former day, refpeaing the conditions of the Loan con traited for the fervice of Ireland. Into the affairs of that country he would therefore refrain fkom entering at any length. With refpea to Supplies, it was in the recollation of the Houfe, that a mode of proceeding had been adopted, in the courfe of the prefent Sefton, by the Chancellor of the Ex chequer, of which the Houfe approved—follow. ing that example he would Rare generally to the Committee, without entering into details, the na ture of the Motion he had to fubmit to their con fideration. In regard to Supply, the Committee were aware that no provifion was yet made for the Military Eftablifhment of Ireland, and that the Ways and Means were not adequate to the Supply already voted. The Supply voted, comprifing the intereft of the National Debt of Ireland, Parlia mentary Grants, and other Votes, amounted to 4,641,0001. the Ways and Means were, revenue, 3,000,0001. the Irifh Loan included in that con trotted for by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, about zpoo,oool. Irifh currency ; profits of the Lottcry, zoo,oool. total 4,367,0001. ; there was therefore an exceeding u: Supply over the Ways and Means of feveralhundred thoufand pounds. In confequence of this excels a Loan became need. fary, and was calculated for the firm of 1,626,0001. The balance which this created on the fide of the Ways and Means, he had no doubt would he thought by the Committee not more than fuffi. dint to provide fur the Army for fix months. In addition to what he had already Rated, he con fidered it neceffary barely to Rate the terms upon which the Loan had been contraaed for, and he felt great fatisfaition in laying that they were pre ferable to thofe of oily Loan which had been ever obtained for Ireland ; or, he might venture to add, to that of any Loan ever contracted for in anv country. His Right Hon. Friend, the Chan crgar of the Exchequer, had, on opening the Bud get, drawn a pikure of the profperity of this country in the soft forcible colours; he wifhed to take the benefit of that defcription, and extend it to Ireland—for in this intlance happily its fortune was even more favourable than that of this coun- ' try, as the interett on the Loan for Ireland was only 31. t6s. t id. per cent. while that on the Engligh Loan was 31. tBs. per cent. The advan tage of cootie was on the fide of Ireland, and he therefore hoped this contra would meet the ap probation of the Committee. This Loan, heobferv. ed, was to be provided for out of the 34 per cent. Irifh Stock ; and from the conditions the Lenders were to have a bonus of 81. 18s. Ind. upon every tool. advanced, by which means a capital would be created in that si per cent. Stock of nearly 145 cool. frith currency above the furn aaually borrowed. At the time the Loan was treating for here, there 31 per cent. Stocks were at Ba, and the Contraaor. went over to Ireland with this Rate ruent in tli•ir pocket. On their arrival there they found their Rocks at 901, and they aftually con ducted for the Loan when tbefe Stocks were at 911. ist. la a foal atteediag that at which AI4- .1. per cents. fold in this country, as they werethen at 911. The Right Hon. Gentleman concluded with moving Refolutions according to his Rate ment, which were agreed to. INDIA. Dr. LAWltillell fO6, purfuant to notice, to move for certain papers reWing the claims of the French and Dutch in the Commerce of the F.all Indies. The Learned Gentleman took an extended view of the origin and progrefs of our dominion and trade in India; of the importance of that trade and dominion, and how far the late Treaty of Peace was likely to encourage the French and Dutch to reaffert pretenfions which had been heretofore fo often urged, and as often fuccefsfully refilled ; becanfe they were about to interfere with our interefts and to endanger our fovereignty.— He withed the fad to be fully afccrtained as to the inference to be drawn from that treaty upon that fubjed, and hoped the Gentlemen known to be bell acquainted with our Indian territories and rights would give the Houle every neceffary in formation as to the extent of the claims of the French and Dutch. By the Treaty of 1763, it was Ripulated that the French fhould not build any fort or keep any troops on the coaß of Coromandel or in the fubah of Bengal. This ftipulation was made to reit a pretenfion the French had advanced from the year 1789. to an equal right with us to the poffeffions in India, while it would be recoiled. ed that the grants under which we claimed the fo. vereigmty were from the Mogul himfelf. Some !bort time after the Treaty of 1763, the French again Ratted new pretenfions, the injurious confe quence of acceding to which were fully Rated by Lin! Clive, in his correfpondence with the Court of Directors ;but our rival, who generally fcorned logical weapons, and who feldom attended to jar tice when it interfered with its ambition, perfilted in thefe pretenfions up to the American war; and in the peace of 1783, another ftipulation was to be found, in confirmation of the article of that of ' 1763, fo jealous were the ftatefmen who drew up that Treaty, of the aria oblervance of the article prohibiting the French from erecting any fortifica tions in India, that they remonfirated with the French Government on the conftrudion of a ditch, which was merely intended to carry off water from a factory, and the French Government allured our then Miniflers that filch alone was the purpofe. Notwithßanding thefe precife treaties, the French Rill endeavoured to urge their pretenfions with fuchipertinacity, that in the year 1785 it became a queftion of force, and our Government in India was actually obliged to fink a French !hip. In confequence of this vexatious conduct, the Gover nor General wrote home, requefting Miniftcrs to try and fettle thefe difputes. A negotiation was accordingly fet on foot, and the Convention of t 787 was the refult. Thofe feveral Treaties and Conventions being abrogated by the late Peace, he would a& the Houfe what fecurity had we that claims formerly contended for whit fo much perfe verance and zeal would not again be revived, and would not become the fource of a new war ? The next point to which he referred was the claims of the Dutch. By the Treaty of 1784 with their Government, ourrigbt to the free and independent navigation of the Eallern Seas, and the fuperiori ty of our flag was recognized and guaranteed.— That Treaty alfo was renounced, and the Dutch, now the dole allies, if not the abfolute followers of France, were releafed from all obligation to this country. The Dutch, who were fo jealous of our commerce with China, that they were long known to hold poffeffion of the peninfula of Malacca with a view to obtain the controul of the navigation of 'the Streights; and fhould they be able to exclude our !hipping from the Streights, we Mould then have only the Streights of Sunda to pafs through in our intercourfe with China, and thole Straights were not navigable during particular monfoons. The inference he meant to draw from thefe aate ments was, that the non-revival of Treaties in the late Peace placed us in a very dangerous fituation with refpeft to our Indian poffeffions. It was a danger fo obvious, that though Miniflers might have thought it wife to difcontinue general politi. cal or commercial Treaties, he was furprized they had not made fome arrangement for the continu ance of the Itipulations regarding this particular. He hoped they would this day account for the reafons which influenced their conduct ; .but he much feared they would not be able to fati..fy the Houk, or at leaft the Country, that a Treaty in which the intereas and *why of the empire had' been fo little attended to, ought to be accepted.— He would with to look forward to fome meafures to cure, or to avert the evils which this peace was calculated to produce, but he confeffed to him the profpcd was very gloomy, particularly as the al moll total ilearuftion of the balance of power in Europe, guaranteed by this peace, left us little chance of fuccefs, fhould France feel difpofed to contend for her old pretenfions in India ; for it would be recollected that it mull be at home, and not in India, we mull refill any Inch pretenfions, therefore it was abfurd to talk of our fovereignty, or to rely on the extent of our power in India.— The !oft of the fovereignty of the Portuguefe in India Coon followed the decline of their rank among the European powers. It was his defire that our rights fhould be fully undedlood, and our refolu tion to fupport them generally made known ; this he expected from the diktats!' of this night. The Learned Member concluded with defcribing the papers he intended to move for, namely, Copies of all the Treaties referring to our Indian pad fions ; alto of all communications made by the different Governor Generals in India, refpeding certain claims of the French and Dutch. The Ertl motion being put, for Copies of V Correfporaftence between the Governor General of Bengal and the Court of Directors of the India Company, relative to certain French claims in In dia, from the years 1749 to 1763, Mr. DUNDAS (aid, that whether our fituation was to be decided by negotiation or by the fword. in India or elfewhere, as the Learned Gentleman had flated, he would dare Cay, that there was no difference of opinion between them upon this point, namely, that it was elfential to the intereas of this country, wherever on; claims were to be &ppm . ell; and where our rights were clear and indifput able, not to do any thing ourfelves to bring thefe rights into doubt. He Rated it, as a general maxim, on which he apprehenged there was no difference of opinion in that Houfe, or elfewhere ; and yet, notwithilanding no dokdst was entertained of the truth of this general maxim, he was afraid that if motions like thefe were per fevered in, much difference of opinion would wife upon the applica tion of that principle ; his propofition was inch as he held to be clear as the fun at noon-day, namely, that no doubt could be entertained on the relative lituation of this country and of France in India. No doubt had been expreffed upon that fubjeet till lately in that Houfe, nor would any doubt be en tertained elfewherc, only by bringing forward fpe culations of our own in that Houfe, and making that doubtful in debate. which was long acknow }edged to be clear in principle. He then entered into an hillorical detail of the rife and progrefs of the Beitifh power in India, the contefts which had taken place from the codicil periods, and the !hare ' taken therein by the French, in order to oppofe our progrefs in India, down to the period in which Lord Clive had to diftinguit bed himfelf, to whom, for his valour as a foldier, and wifdom as a Stater man, he paid the higheß compliments • the refult of whofe meafures he Rated to have confummated ' the Britith power in India, and fettled our Sove reignty there by right of conqueß, which right he reconciled to the inhabitants brthe wife refpea he paid to their prejudices. Having gone through a complete hiftory of thefe events, and having given a compendious account of the progrefs of the Mo gul Empire, and of its revolutions for eight cen turies, he proceeded to Rate the tonclufion, which he drew from all thefe premifes ; which conclufion was this, 14 that though we may feel it lila and ex pedient to make fuch allowances to the prejudices of the inhabitants, and to make fuch regulations in our territories as we may pleafe, or think ad-' viable, yet with regard to European Powers, to them we fay freely and diffinaly, we have gained this country by our arms, and by our arms we will keep it." For upon all the grounds which he had already Rated, it was manifell, that the provinces' of Bengal, Bahar, Orilra, &c. had come to Great Britain by conque ß, as mach as any country ever came into the hands of another ; and from tae pe riod when it became fo under the government of my Lord Clive to the ?ref= day, the French never had directly or indirealy, from the Treaty of 1763, any right whatever to interfere with the provinces of Bengal, Bahar, and Oriffa, &c. ; but,' that they were by right of conqueß fubjea to the Sovereignty of the King of Great Britain to all in tents and purpofes, which Sovereignty was to be exercifed through the medium of &e °lndia Com pany, and through the different organs eftabliffied for the prefervation of our provinces, as much as any other part ofhis Majeity's dominions. He need not dwell upon thefe points, the faits were clear and well authenticated in the hiftory of thofe do minions ; and therefore, he laid it down as a clear and indifputable propofition, that what we had gained thus by conqueß, was to be confidered with reference to any other European Power, as totally fubjea to our Sovereignty, without any interfe rence of theirs ; that we were actually the Sove reigns of India, and no European Power had any right whatever to difpute our title to this power, which we pail's, de fade. Such was the Rate of the Britith power in India ; the fituation of France was extremely different, without one inch of terri tory except what they may claim under the Defi nitive Treaty under confideration. He would alk the Houfe to paufe for a moment, and then a& itfelf this queition ; was there a man within hear ing of his voice who had any doubt whatever as to thefe fads at this moment ? Certainly none.—Was there any one man within the hearing of his voice who thought that if thefe fans, and the right arif! ing out of them, were to be called in quethon, this country would not go the length of diking its laft Rake to fupport thofe rights, and refute giving up one iota of them ? He had no reafon to be fatisfied in any point of curiofity, by afking why it was ex pedient in the prefent moment to avoid references to antient Treaties in the prefent Definitive Treaty of Peace? It was a fubjea upon which he did not think it neceffary to dwell at prefent, it was fuffi cient for him to fay, that there was no diminution thereby in our power in India, no foundation what ever for any other to difpute our fovereignty there, nor any thing which entitled others to conteft with us the rights upon which that fovereignty was founded ; nor was that all, he would go further, and fay, he millook greatly if any doubt was now entertained, that with regard to Great Britain, her fovereignty in India flood at that moment upon a hater footing than if the former Treaties had been renewed by it. By the Treaty of 1783, which was unqueltionably the very worn Treaty this country ever entered into on the fubjea of Indian affairs, it was the bufinefs of his Majefty's Government, and a very laborious one it was, in the Convention of 1787 to do away the evil created by the Treaty of 1783. By that of £783, our fovereignty in India was tendered difputahle ; by the Convention of 1787 our fovereignty was re-eflablifhed. Having expatiated at confiderable length upon the merits of the Convention of 1787, and the demerits of the Treaty of 1783, he proceeded to . fay, that had the Treaty now upon the table renewed any former Treaty, it would have been impoffible to refer to the Convention of t 787, with Out alfo renewing the contefts which were brought forward in 1783. It would have been impoffible to have introduced the one, without alfo calling for an explanation of the other, and therefore the affairs of that country were much better, confidering all the circumilances of the relative &nation of this country and of France. To fuffer at Treaties whatever to be pair ed over in filence, we might, perhaps, by renew ing Tome of the declarations and admiffions ofour fovereignty in India as fettled by the Convention of 1787, have employed tome antidote againft the evil of which we had too much reafon to complain, but it was manifeft to him we could not have filch antidote without having alto a certain portion of the poifon by the renewal of any difcuffion whate ver upon the fubjea of treaties, and therefore he had no difficult y whatever in laying, that upon a review of the w hole coaditios of our affairs, con. fidered with relation to thofe of France, we were infinitely better in palling the fubjeit over in filence, than we should have been in endeavouring to re new any of them. He confeffed, he raid, that when the rumour reached him that the provifions of the Convention of 1787 were left out of the pre fent treaty, he fhrunk under an appreheufion that our power in India would be deftroyed, and he was the more alarmed when he heard it Paid, that this was brought about in confequence of the views of France to undermine, and finally to overturn our Sovereignty in India. This led him to turn the flibjea very ferioufly in his mind, and to look at all the ancient documents, to confider the whole matter deliberately; and the rcfult was, that it was infinitely better for us to have no reference whatever to any treaty, as he bad already Rated. But the Learned Gentleman anted, if the Houfe could really think that we could be fecure in India againft the ambitious claims of France, as they had appeared in 1783, and which were done away in 1737 ? Did we really think we were fafc now, without having renewed, by the prefent treaty, the provifions of the Convention of 1787? This he would anfwer, by putting to the Learned Gentle. man this queftioq—Did he really think, that if the French fhould be difpoCed to renew the pretenfions of 1783, or any other period, that they would be prevented from fo doing by a few (craps of papers being laid on the table of that Houle, a fpecies cf artillery that would not be equal to the operation of a fingle field-piece for half a minute ? But the Learned Gentleman would fay, that the treaty of 1783 would eftablifh the dirpofition of the French at that time to difpute our Sovereignty in India. It would indeed eltabliffi that which there was no need of eftablifhing, becaufe the thing was well known ; the French did on that occafion, as they would do on every occafion, provided they thought they could fucceed in the attempt pf it, namely, endeavour *to diminifh the greatnefs of this country, and enlarge its own; but in propor don as they were difpoted to be hoftile to our in• tereft, or querulous while we enjoyed our advan tages, he had no difficulty in faying, it was the wildom of this country, in the fame proportion, to wait until theft claims were made which Gentlemen (poke of with fo much apprehenfion, and in the mean time to Rand upon our right—our para. mount right of Sovereignty. What courfe the French would take to enlarge their commercial intereft in India was not for us to anticipate. It was enough for us, that if they endeavoured to do fo by the exertions of individuals, or otherwfe, they could never do fo without being liable to be interrupted by this country. If they were to try to ereft commercial faitories, or to do any thing that interfered with our Sovereignty in India, we Ihould be fully warranted, and what was better, we were in poffeffion of means to refill fuch an at tempt. But thofe means would not be increafed by a few papers being Laid before the Houfe, fitch documents would not help us to any arguments which we had not already, for the propriety of re filling fuch attempts; thank GOD we had never wanted arguments to refill the encroachments of the French on our Sovereign power in India, nor had we wanted Rrength for that pnrpofe. From all this it was perfectly clear, that before the French could exercife any trade in India, they mull come to us in the charaiter of fuppliains • for nothing they had yet obtained would enable ;hem to carry on trade in India without our leave. He had Rated the difference between the treat e f , 3 and the convention of 1787 already. He had to obferve, that we were not now in a &nation fimi. lar to that in which we Rood in 1787. There was now no treaty in exiftence between us and France, nor any regulation on the fubjelt of India, exce pt the fingle claufe in the Convention now upon the table of the Houfe. And with regard to the trade of France in India, if any they were to have, they could have it only through the indulgence of the Britith power in India; and, therefore, he Paid again, we were better off as the cafe flood upon the prefent treaty of peace, than if we had renewed any of the former treaties. Whatever matter of complaint was to be urged, or, rather, of lamenta tion, upon this fubjed, at could only be, that his Majefty's Government did not fettle the whole of the provifions of all former treaties, by taking no tice of them all, and finally adjußing them all.— This, however in the Aare& it might appear clearable, ought not to have been attempted in the prefent cafe, becaufe it would have been im poffible to accompliffi it, without protraiting the negociation to a length that would have been in confiftent with the interefts of the States ofEurope. [ The articles in all there treaties mull have been all gone over, if any of them were noticed; in the I wade of which a thoufand explanations would become neceffary, and which might have made the negociation in many refpeits appear to tome idle and ridiculous. But there were other con& desations which, he hoped, would operate on the conduit of thofe who may have the future conduit of the affairs of India; and they related to other Powers as well as to the French and ourfelves in India—we were not to confider merely our own concerns and thofe of France in India. He limed it as a folid ground of confederation for the EaR India Company, to regulate, not only the trade of the French, but to look to the regulation of other fubjets, to have an eye upon other com mercial connexions. But it might be Paid, Why not flipulate thefe things in negociation, and finally de termine them by treaty? To which he would an fwer, It is much better as it is, for at prefent c have the Sovereignty of India; and he would alk, if it appeared to any Member of that Houfe, to be a wife courfe to exclude the Government of this country from all difcretionary power to repo late the trade of India ? If the French, or any other Power, fhould claim the right of carrying their goods up the Ganges, or to do any other ad s was it not futficient that we had the power to pre vent them ? The French Trade in India, the Dutch t Trade in India, and the Trad e of ot h er P o wers in India, might go hand in hand, fo that it was not detrimental to us; but if detrimental to us, we had the power to flop it, and that was enough for our present purpofe at lean. He wanted this fulo jee to be confidered upon a large and comprehen five fcale, tuul not confined merely to ourfelves