Star. — London, England, 1819-04-06 00:00:00

• • ' N. • • • • ill • • founded in noleat entertained by the Committee, • as es theattedthe Bank, or of its ability to answer ▪ - every elan -that could be made upon it , but upe ts • smosWhs Ntoprestiiiilknecessity of a further measure to he adopted **insult of the investigation, and to the sisceess of wiiitirthe measure no* in agitation was considered indispensable. Earl GREY re-urged the arguments he had already stated against the measure. He farther asked, why did not Ministers Wait until the conclusion of the in vestigation ? It might be completed in a week or ten dayi at farthest. What obstacle to the adoption of a final Measure could arise from so short a delay ? Was the inconvenience of retarding that final measure for so 'hart a period so great as to balance that of the violation of the order or their Lordships proceedings? Nothing could be more/ irregular and unconstitu tional than to cell upon the HoUses•of Parliament to pass a law, of the reasons for which they must re main in total ignorance. Thoit who were members of the CoMMittee could not explain the grounds of the measure. In this state of things, he should con tent himself with protesting against the proceeding, and perhaps woulditoetrouble their Lordships far ther on the subject: He conehided by moving as an amendment, that the House do now adjourn. The-Earl-of LAUDERD.ALE, in consequence of what hid payed; wished to say a few words by way of explanation, lest it should be supposed he enter tained any fears with Jespect to the state of the Bank. He begged it to.be distinctly understood, that he was convineed of thefull ability of the Bank to answer every degiand. The had been re commended s olely on a view its necessity, for ex fie:Lilting that firral /molt of the investigation, which, Ir thi opinion of all, was !hest desirable. The Earl Of lIARROWSIrs motion for conddering the re layed Standing Orders, with a view to their suspension, to morn w, was agreed to, and their Lordships, after disposing of some routiaelnuiness, Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. • Se feral Petitions were presented for and against the Railway BilL:-Ordered to lie on the table. Lord CLIVE presented two Petitions from Wenloch, agailat the renewal of the Insolvent Debtors' Act, and against the Equalization of the Duties on Coils. Ordered to lie on the table. ' 'Fetichist wu presented from Uxbridge, praying for a revi vlon *I the Criminal Code. Referred to the Committee on the Criminal Lawa. Mr. IL SUMNER had last year presented a Petition re- Mr. Bakers, which had been referred to a Committee up stairs; and it Was expected that some measure for their relief *Aid be proposed in the course of the present Session. Ile nowemea notice. that after the Holidays he should naive Ow the R awaits Acts affessing Bakers, within tea miles Ism yo?Xtt id e Sills of Mortality. • Mr. RENNET gave' notice," that on Wednesday he would Slime in Address to the•Prinee Regent, to stop the sailing of the Yessel:Motracto proceed to New South. Wales with Female . , 'Mr. LAMBTOK presented a Petition front the Inhabitants of St. Leoraid, FAA tleap, against the. London Clergy Mt. It stated thit , parish to be h2ivily bArtheneci with floors' ltates, and described the Itedor, who had the Livia; of Stoke Newington and other Preferments. to be amply provided for, and • non-re sident.—Orderod to be referred to a Committee on the Bill. 'LONDON CLERGY. Sir ROBERT'W/LSON presented a Petition from thellarish of St. Michael, Q3Seeehithei in the My of London, against the London 'Clergy Bill. *Theillo nourable General` read pait of the petition, whiCh•set Forth that the present ;incaitnbent had a provision amounting to CM per annum, and deducting £5O wo• !inmost zoirl rt o f " all the duty, ,anadd other sums Which were specified, there remained a clear £220 for the Rector, who was a non-resident. Mr. W. DttiDAS considered it irregular to read Bic petitionita the'piesent stage of the proceedings on as st,wae l so 160 d to be read at the table. • Mr.' L'AMSTO2 ; 47 had, a Petition to present of a fimilar chaiactet, and was of opinion the Honoura ble General bad been perfectly in order in reading Part of thit Which he was about to present. The SPEAKER said, it was usual to allow any Member presenting a Petition, to read part of it as tart of his speech. It was a distinct question whe iher it should afterwards be read. Sir ROBERT WILSON observed, he had not Wished to read the whole of the Petitiim, but only that part of it which related to the money received by the Rector.—The Petition was then brought up, and or dered to be referred to the Committee on the Bill. DARLINGTON RAILWAY. Mr. LAMBTON moved the second reading of the Darlington and Stockton Railway Bill. The Honourable Mr. POWLETT opposed the Bill, and moved as an amendment, that it should be read a second tittle On that day six months. Mr. M. A.TAYLOR supported the measure, as one' of great importance and utility. Sir. WHARTON opposed it as unnecessary, and thought a Bill might be brought in next year that would answer every purpose proposed to be accom plished for the benefit of the town of Darlington by the present measure, at half the expense, by a railway that would not go over above halt the ground. Mr. LA.MBI ON defended the Bill, as calculated to benefit a population of 60,000 souls, exclusive of the inhabitants of the town of Darlington. At pre-, w a t9a. per mile Was paid for a ton of coals. By the proposed plan, one horse would be able to draw ten tons of coals, at the rate of lid. per ton per mile, all expensesincluded. Mr. HOL ME SUMNER. presented a Petition in fa 's/our of the same railway, from certain Land-owners of the county of Durham, all of which were severally brought up, read, and ordered 'to lie upon the table. • Lord LASCELLES wished to know whether the Aprivate interests of individuals affected by this Bill would be considered in the Committee on it, and . compensation given to the workers of missro and .others who might suffer from the proposed raslwAy, before he came to a decision tin the question. On die answer he might receive his vote would depend. Mr. LAMBTON replied generally, tioit it was in tended to temunerite tl:ose who might *offer from the undertaking being carried into effect. The House divided—For the Motion 93—For the Amendment 106- . —MAjority against the Bill 13. CON SILL. • Mr. ffOLME SINN alt rose to present a Petition io the Ilouvr,the subject of which he was aware would be very unpopular. It was a Petition from the Far mers of the county of Surrey, praying some further reg igutkor it the Corn Laws of this country, where by the interests of the farmers of England might be betw protected against the importations from other countries. lie was prepared to hear it said by some Creatlemenob* the (amen of England had received suffickat relief tat security' 410 . der interest bf tbel rest Vom-Regulgill, which had been passed by thaL eg iikture, and that ant s= to effect a fur-, this; tegulation on this head wobld hive the effect of exciting discontent and alum throughout the country amongst the manuracttuingand commercial popula tion. But be begged leave to my, the vital interests of the agricolturists of England were not to be aban doned upon a kiofthat sort. They were a body of men whose i ndustry and whose fair interests were as fully entitled to protection as those of any other class of subjects, and whose successful industry was as essentially interwoven with the well-being of the country. But the fact was, that the farmers of Eng land, under the system of Taxes and Poor Rates, and the prices of labour which embarrassed them, could not meet in competition the foreign growers of corn. It was said by many Gentlemen when a former Corn Regulation Bill was introduced, that the state of the agriculture of this country weal' subject which cer tainly required consideration, but that was not the fit time to investigate it. That objection was urged at a moment when the country was engaged ;#1 war, but circumstances were since materially changed, for the ' country was now restored to a state of profound peace; and if ever there was a moment at which the subject called for inquiry, the present was that inn ment. He W 2% not one of those who were far declin ing investigation for the relief of any class of his fel low-subjects on the pretence that it might raise pre judices in the popular mind, or to defend such 'neap sures as were necessary for the relief of the sufferers. He, for one, thought that there was a very great de g ee of suffering amongst the farmers throughout the kingdon, which every man passing through the country might see ; and whilst Gentlemen were ef t • deavouring to avoid popular prejudices by refusing to consider the distress undet which the farmers la . bowed, they were running the risk of injuring the agriculture of the country, and doing incakulable, mischief to all those connected with it. He should most cheerfully comply with every measure that could tend to remedy the distress of the aviculturists of the country ; but when he heard it declared from the hi*hest authority in that House that a man must be indiscreet in the extreme who would even attempt any measure tending to disturb the presentregtilations of the commerce of corn in this country, he was al most deterred from hoping the assent of his Majesty's Ministers to any investigation of the subject with a view to salutary amendment. But he contended, that the agriculture of this country was inseparably interwoven with-her vital interests. The existence of , her manufactures, and consequent, of her trade, en tirely depended upon it, for if that failed they mast be destroyed ; and therefore he was for taking the subject into speedy consideration. The Petition was then read by the Clerk. Mr. DICKENSON 'thought it highly necessary that the 'House should . look into this subject. 'like revenue of the country, it would be remembered, was principally derived from the land, and the Go vernment could not go on without the revenue; and therefore that ss hich was its source ought not to want protection. Lord A. HAMILTON had opposed the Corn and was still hostile to that measure. Ile did not say the case of the present Petitioners was entitled to no consideration, but it was not a new Corn Bill that st•o• Ineettine, htst rathor that which would restore the currency of the country to a healthful state. The Petition was ordered to lie on the table. Other Petitions were in the course of being pre sented, when Lord CASTLEV.EAG3 begged to remark that she hour had passed when Petitions ought to give v ay to public business. The SPEAKER said, tte regular paper had been gone through some time, but he had still two long slips filled with the names of those on whom he was to call. He knew no rule of the House which should preclude these names from being called over, but thought the best way, if the House wished to pro ceed to any particular business, would be for some Honourable Member to state what it was to which it was desirable that their attention should be directed. CASE OF WTNDHAM WYNDHAM QCIN. Mr. ELLICE rose to withdraw the notice he had given for the removal of Mr. Wyndham Wyndham Quin from the office of Custos Rotulorum of the County of Limerick. He had intended to found his r.!otion OA the Resolutions come to by the House, but on looking oaer them since he gave the notice, it had appeared to him that resolutions so mild would not be sufficient to justify him in proposing to go farther. This had been the opinion a the Gallant General who had conducted the late proceedings, and in deference to him and the House, he wished to withdraw his notice. He begged to add, that in what he had done, he had no motive but that of per forming his duty as a Member of Parliament, as he had personally no knowledge whatever of the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. W. Quin) against whom his motion would have been directed. BANK AFFAIRO. Mr. PEEL brought up a preliminary Report from l the Committee appointed to inquire into the Stan of the Bank, which was read, and was in sabstanc.' as follows : " Thr Commi are f1t.1% rogaril Lope to bei tAe /low, 'id& to be Rot, sod wltA stly. wbjfts ii.ey book lima &de notes eves under teflon of I' to Simian Report of measure Is 4 Mr. Pl the Hou: would ral princi i The Report measure move for from Snaking , and to restrain before consequence intentions) pay their 1817, there Bank, and collected, time bad been drawn out; up to the com mencement of the present year, No less s Won than - • . - •• C 4,500,009 . There had been drawn out since the Ist Jan. in the present year - - - - 700,000 Making together - - 1ii,0011,000 By the issue of this treasure no had been ef fected. Unless the issues of goltra i d been accom panied by a simultaneous reduction of Bank paper —(Hear,ltear)—the consequence must inevitably be, that the gold would be sent where a profit could be made of it. No doubt could be entertained of the destination of that gold which had been issued by the Bank since the notice to which he had alluded. It was in fact announced to them by the Report made by the Minister of Finance in France. From that Report it appeared, that in the sixteen months which had preceded the Ist of last January, there had been coined 25,0017,000 of francs at the French Mint, amounting in value to about £5,000,000. The Committee had it on authority on which they could perfectly rely, that threelourths of the gold used in this coinage was the same that had been issued from, the Bank. He would now ask of the House to re-, Strain the Bank from:snaking further payments in hold till the end of the present Session of Parliament. The reasons on which he called for such a measure, !were shortly these t it was evident to every one that 1 when the period arrived for the resumption of cash payments, a quantity of bullion would be necessary, considetahlv exceeding any supply the Rink could be supposed to possess ist present. This fact could Inot be questioned, and it necessarily followed, that i the treasure of which the Bank might now be de rived, world in no respect benefit the country, bat would only tend to make the Bank more unable to ' !pay in cash, and consequeptly to postpone the period pias at which the sosumpt:on could be effected. These reasons led him to prifpose the Bill which he now ked leave to bring in, and he begged to say he moved for it solely wit h a view of facilitating the return to cash payments. The Committee had 21 con- fident hope, that at an early period after the recess, they should be able, in their Report, to propose a plan for the resumption of cash payments. This hope he thought would prove to be well founded ; and he must beg leave to add, that he was of opi nion, the inestimable advantages attendant on a re turn to metallic currency, might be purchased by the plan now in contemplation, without subjecting the mes'cantile world to those. inconveniences and embarrassments which some Gentlemen anticipated. Ile then moved for leave to bring in a Bill to restrain ,the Governor and Company of the Bank of England from making certain payments in gold, pursuant to notices giveo for tbatpurpose. The Right Honour able (k+tleman added, the. House would feel that this Rill, if . pernsiked to a brought in, ought to pass with the least possible delay, and he therefore hoped that there would be no objection to its passing that evening through its several stages. Mr. BROUGHAM felt unquestionably consider ably embarrassed at what the Right Honourable Gentleman, as Chairman of the Committee, had re commended. The House must, he thought, feel em barrassed also, as the measure proposed was notbrought forward, as it ought to have been, on the responsibi lity of the Ministers of the Crown, nor even on that of the Committee; but on a partial statement, foun ded on what a Right Honourable Gentleman kr.::w of the proceedings of the Committee, they were called 1 upon to pass a Bill of some importance, not only without debate, but without the possibility of deba ting it. This, to say the least of it, was an extraor dinary mode of proceeding. On a former occasion, when a great emergency occurred, a course was taken, not only different, but directly opposite, to that which was now preferred. In 17137, Ministers having made up their milids, on information which they could rely upon, issued an order in Council to restrain the Bank from making cash payments, and then called on Parliament to pass a legislative mea sure in the usual way, and afforded the House every means of inquiring into the subjeet, and of debating it. A Committee was appointed, and made a report, land, whatever the reasons contained in that report might rest upon, they were laid before the House, and they were enabled to debate it, without the usual delays attendant on the observance of ail its forms. Now his first objection to the measure proposed was, that the Ministers deviated from the course taken by their predecessors, in not issuing an order in Council on their own responsibility, in the first instance. This done, they might have come to the House to pass a measure, under circumstances that would have left the usual. opportunities for debating it opea to the House. His second objection was, that this measure was recommended to them as being necessary to pre serve the credit of Me Bank, and as subservient to that ulterior measure which the Committee might or might not recommend, at a subsequent period. if the measure rested solely on the ground that it ought to pass to save the. credit of the Bank, he should be prepared to oppose it in all its bearings. He should even be inclined to avail himself of those forms of the House which had been placed in the hands of Members for the purpose of arresting the progress of proceedings when all the forms of the House were' set aside by others. For if the measure had no foun but that which he had supposed, what was : attempt to save the own misconduct? The ;give notice that they issued before January I, proper to issue the notice - be screened from its he should be disposed .. way. He was more account. The Committee, exactly see their way, thauhey might have a nt nature, to which the brought in might be made .'e were of opinion that contemplation, but of which could nut be effected to have been stated. • as to say this, then grounds for recommendin • proceeding--(Hear, hear .) tbat there would b e no op measure to answer the pur ' through all its stages .44 that m throe or four such a drain onthcßank ten he should' trot Committer appointed to consider the State of the Bank dation bui that which he had at engaged in deliberating on their Report, which they the present motion but a violent ; br able on an early day after the recess tO present to Bank from the effects of its own se, and they confidently hope that they sell then be is a period fur the resumption of cash payments by the Bank had not been compelled tol ml esogy,est a plan by which this may beiaceomplished would pay of their notes issued •ty. lint the Committee are of opirioiti t t u l l iat the plan 1817. Th e y h a d t h oug ht proper toy have to propose will be maternity unwed Ix if the referred to, and ought not to scald he drained of its treasure by co • uiag to pay !es of an eailSer date than Jar. lit, 1814 and fractional consequences. On this ground, hi der £.5 in gold. They therefore subrn to the coaside- to oppose it in every possible the Home the expediency of passing orthwitb a Hitembarrassed on another a ccount in the Bank from making such payene a, till after the i t wit . seemed, though tley did not el of this Committee shall be received, someleg ive be founded thereat:."" thought it possible o r likely that, PEEL wished to offer a few bservations to measure to propose of a diferent use. lie was sure every one ust feel that it Bill new proposed tcx.be brought I .e premature to enter at la e kite the gene. subservient. If the Committee al aciples on which this Repo had been made. that which they had in c o ntem pt port itself laid a suffici t ground for the they bad told them nothing, cot * which he was about to opose. He should without this Bill, this ought tc or leave to-bring in a Bil to restrain the Bank But if they could not go so far caking payments of frac onat sums under £5, be thought there were no ground restrain them from pa their notes issued the present extraordinary. proceec the Ist day of Janis 1817, in Gold. In If he could be persemied that the trance of the Bank (he was sure with the best t portuniti of sarryear this measur ms) having issued a odce that they.wonl4 pose intemded.moisieslit plumed tl air notes of an earlier date that January.lst o that right—,if it okoulti be shewn, there had been a c iderabic & fi n of tht" days there was •likely to be terchl tad of the treasure w ch had bon pteviensly that to past it would be ogles; :~~ be so much against it. But unkss the Right Gentleman would say the measure would be a tory if the forms of the House were not in this twice suspended, he, for one, could not consen t eir being dispensed with—(Hear, hear!) Right Honourable Gentleman had embarrassed h' self by entering at all into the argument. If he f once said—" I will not open the subject, butt is an absolute necessity for the passing of thi s t. and immediately, or it will be of no use at all" House would have been better justified in pa ss i n , measure than they would be now. He bad told `.. that the Bank had unadvisedly paid some ef t notes in gold, without making a sirtrultanenusred don in their issues of paper; and the comer. : was, they had been drained of revenue to the ale of about £5,000,000. New he did not see but Bank might go on for three cr four da7s, ei : -.ili, ordinary forms of the 'louse were ce:eplied v i : ' : , the passing of this Bill, without any very se r i, t , s convenience being felt, as it appeared the: 'r, ~..a been drained of more than £s,‘/..00.000 in the c of two or three years. Theagh they might *re considerably mere in :hose three or fear ears a z any preceding three or four days, hc didn't t'...in probable that the notes issued before Jan. 1, 1 • could be so collected from ail parts of the coon as to create a very serious demand lot gold itt Bank. lie was arguing in tlle dark, he was a w and they might be prepared on the opposite sile answer that the notes entitled to be paid in gold . in such a situation, though he did not see hew could be known, that it was certain they would presented to a very large arn:.sunt in the course o few days ; but unless this could he ct, , ...c3, he saw thing to justify so violent a procee.;ing ; as that w had now been recommended to the hoisse—(lf. If the resumption of cash pay meats wa.: to take* pl so soon, it was quite clear that therz -,... :s not any . reason for calling upon the House •-.o ..dopt this traordinary measure. it wa.s that in 1797, the :.r. nation on which the Order i, C:unell WAS foun was conveyed by a message from the Bank to the ulster. But if Mr. Pitt at that time derived the in ;nation on which he acted from the Bank, and if the fact was in the present case, the information derived f. orn the evidence adduced by the Bank, was at a loss to know what was the dif, - tence bet the two cases In both, the information which cc sioned the adoption of the measure MD Alrived f the Bank. Why then was not tlie measure no: : posed the same with that formerly adopted in a si tar case? If the same course had been pursued, house would not have been called upon to hu through' the measure. By acting on the rreceden. 1797, there would bade been a perfect assurance no drain could take place. The Order in Co;: might have been inserted in the Gazette of Satur and afterwards Ministers might have come down the House for indemnity. A Bill was of course cessary for this purpose, but it ought to be one troduced and discussed with the usual fornialiti Havi.ig said that nothing as to the circunistatees the Bank coulttlittfute him to agree to pass this he must add something to qualify the generally his assertion. II he thought that the stability of . Bank, as connected with the general commercial terests of the country, was actually deper.ding .• the adoption of the measure, he was by no ire prepared to say, that in such a case he would h opposed it. But then, in order to'that, a case of most urgent necessity must be made out. He however, quite sure that the Committee were prepared to press the measure upon the . House any such grounds. Lord CASTLEREAGH agreed vith the Hon. able and Learned Gentleman, that it this meas.. was brought forward with reference mereiv to convenience of the Bank it would not be right to di cuss it in a summary manner. He conceived that ti question was, whether the :abject had come befit the House in a more proper way at present than it had been brought forward according to the piec dent established by the Order of Council in 1797? was true that the Government in that year adopti the course which had been etated by the Honourah and Learned Gentleman •, bat the cistumstanees present were entirely different from those in 1'79 There was ndw no alarm for the safety of the eau try, and he felt sure that the iionomuble and Learn _ __ Gentleman would agree, that it "'you'd be extrem improper for Ministers to step in between the Leg lature and the Public on this subject. It was on from the Conimittee that a sv.ggesrion concerning could come with propriety. With respect to t course of proceeding, if the measure proposed iv wise in itself, it ought to be adopted with all poni rapidity. He entirely followed the assertion of . Right Hon. Friend, that the object of the Commil; was to secure a return to Cash Payments as SCOT possible. If the drain upon the Bank was suffer' , I continue, so much the longer would be the del2) airivtng at Cash Payments. With respect to the eat k. to which the drain had already gone, his Right Ho Friend had stated it only so far as the early pars last year; but if the House would go only to Jii and July of last year, it would be found dia: ti: diminution of the treasure from the Bank was tic less than nine millions sterling. In the course of to morrow or next day, if the proposed measure al not immediately adopted, there would be a diming. Lion of between three and £400,000, the usual quo , tity of specie issued at the Quarterly Dividends. 01 these three grounds, therefore, lie should s3ppert tl:i proposed measure : Ist. That it was not an indulgend to the Bank ; 2dlv. That the case was not similar a that in 1797 ; 3dl y.. Vat if the measure be cor' it ought' to be speedily adopted. If it were net . adopted immediately, in the manner proposed.. would be impossible that it could be tamed ir...c effect until after a considerable delay, as there . .'s l only two days from the period at which Parliameri generally adjourns for the Easter recess. Mr. TIERNEY begged leave to say a few wads The proposed measure he said was one of the roll important that ever came before the House, and h( felt much alarmed it the composure with which the proposition was received. In the year 1817, the D ailk gave notice that they were ready to pay in spec l e 3l notes foF fractional parts of 51. issued prior to th commencement of that year. Many individuals hs called in these notes, not for the purpose of se d' them to the Bank, but to be able to say, that if th! wished to convert them into gold they could do se. i forming this expectation they had reliedon theari mist of the Bank and the faith of tli Lts'ilaturc,, ,4- i • 1 the Oat n e ! tb. va t ' Ic atingi OPt t he , ; ono 'TgrneY DOW P_l s umveu ' ~~ it h_ • set sen tr.: