Star. — London, England, 1805-02-06 00:00:00

Lad condated the inveßigation in an untiCual man.! turd leng, Sir Andrew Mitchell, Sir Richard Bick ner; that they had framed their Report without hear- erton, and the late Captain Cooke, of the lido la ing Sir Home Popham as to any of the grounds of Forte, the mode of proceeding was jug what had charge. but that in following this courfe they thought taken place in that of the Honourable Officer (Sir they ailed in conformity to the wifhes of the Lords Home Popham.) Commiffinners of the Admiralty. Sir HOME POPHAM thought, that as the Hon. The queftion being again put, Gentleman had fo many as three precedeats betides, Captain MARKHAM role to offer a few remarks in juftice to the memory of a gallant officer, (Capt. in explanation of the condo& of the late Board of Cooke) he ought to have omitted thefourth. Admiralty. It was true that the enormous charges The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER la. for the (hips under the command of the Hon. Officer, mented the reference which had been made to the had excited die attention of the Board, and orders had fubjeft of Captain Cooke. It was due to the roe been given to the Commiffinners of the Navy to in- mory of that officer to have fpared the feelings of velligate the Winds ; th e y had inveftigated the bull. thole who admired him, and of a country grateful nefs, and they had given in a report, which was the for his valour and Cervices. Had he lived, he would fame as they had publifhed in the pamphlet alluded have proved an invaluable ornament to that proftf• to. 'rhe lion. Officer had been furnifhed with a copy fion in which, few as had been his days, he had of :tie report, at kelt orders had been given to furnifb lit me ; and of fociety, that in deploring his lofs, did him with a copy as form as it was received. In coh- him no more than jullice. lequence of this report, the Board of Admiralty bad Mr. KINNAIRD faid, that he would not be : ttint foinc intention of proceeding againft th e Hon. fchcoled by any man in that Houfe into fentiments nicer by way of indiEtment. But as it appeared of delicacy. He had alluded to the cafe of a gal. doubtful hew far a charge fo preferred could be main- lane officer ; but both without having afperfed, or tained, this courfe was not purfued. It was next re- meaning to afperfe his memory. folved to proceed againft him in the Court of Exche- The motion was then put and agreed to. qaer, but the change of Adminiftration prevented this Sir HOME POPHAM rofe to move for copies of p l an f r om being carried into effect. The Hon Officer his Correfpondence with the leveret Boards refited had atked, why fo great a delay had taken place in ing the Expedition to the Red Sea. In alluding 'irking any Reps againft him, if the Board of Admi- further to the fubjea of the papers, and repot tof the ra tty were convinced of the irregularity of his con- Navy Board, to which fo various references had du& ? The anfwer to this was, that the Baard were been made, he obferved that it was not a little ex anxious to have fuller accounts of the tranfaitions in traordinary that papers, which were no where to be the Red Sea, and had iffued orders for colleCting fur- found in the offices; that had been tiolen or purloin titer ir.forma.ion on that lubjed. They had alfo in- eel, he fuppofed, after making a traverfe throughout 'battled the Navy and ViCtuallins Boards to commu- the Empire, had found their way into a pamphlet nicate the refult of thefe inquiries a s the ground of unaccredited by one tittle of truth. As an inflance any future proceedings. It remained for thole who of the jealoufy, or worfe, of the late Admiralty, now compoled the Board, to inform the Houle whe- Sir Home next Rated to the Houle, that when at ther (itch reports had been received, and what Reps Sheernefs, for the purpofe of refitting, every de were in contemplation in Inc hau le rs ? Before he fat lay had been interpofed, and the molt vexatious ob dawn, he would only add, that it would afford him ltacles thrown in his way, until at length, the the higheft fatisfaClion, if the Hon. Officer, on a full ohjelt was in danger of never being accomplithed.— inveltigation, fhould be able to clear his conduit from There was a fabjeet on which he felr peculiar pain.— every afperfion, and fully ettablith his reelitade. It was not enough to have traduced him in a Mr. DICKENSON, jun. (one of the Lords of pamphlet, in which not one fait appeared that was the Admiralty) Rated, that he was not prepared to not fcandaloufly perverted, but that pamphlet mutt inform the Honourable Gentleman, whether the be circulated with an indullry unparalleled—even Report alluded to had been received. He lhould, lent to the Officers under his command : f"r when however, inquire into the bufinefs, and communicate on a late fervice on the enemy's coat, he found the relish. He touched on the concluding words that that pamphlet had been fent by pot} to the Of of the Report, fo often alluded to, and maintained ficers under his command. Was this patriotic, was that fach language was altogether unaccountable. this public virtue, in a crifis of imminent danger ? When filch an adrniffion was made by the Commit . - when, inilead of impairing, every hone man ought !loners themfelves, it was pretty clear that both fides to with to firengthen the confidence of the Officer of the quettion had not been impartially examined- in his Commander. The malevolent attempt had He had for the lall two or three days applied ham- not fucceeded ; for he enjoyed the confidence, and he Ulf clufely to the fubjed ; and though he would not would fay, the affection of his officers undiminifhed. anticipate the decilion, he was happy to Rate that B u t as if they wou ld at t em p t ever y t hi ng t h at cou ld the conduit of the Honourable Officer, when fully be fuppofed to operate to his prejudice, he was, for confidcred, would be found to have been-totally free tooth, charged in that pamphlet with being a leader from all ground of cenfure. As to the prefent of Catamarans. He concluded with moving, for en. Board of Admiralty not h a ving proce e ded againtt pies of leveret letters and papers figned by himfelf, the Honourable Officer by a court martial, he had a and by the public Boards and their lervants, relative -cry Mort but fatisfatory reply. Previous to their to his expedition to the Red Sea, which were ordered. coming into power, the period limited by AEI of Mr. FOX raid, that on the face of the bufinefs, th e Parliament for that purpofe was expired. They had farts did not bear out the Hon. Officer's Ratement. fubmitted it to the Board of Naval Inquiry, who But as to the faits, the truth was, thofe papers for had declared it not to fall within the province affign- which the Hon. Officer faid he had written in April, es, to them by the Legiflature. He was glad that!! and which, he Paid, he had not received till the month would now be fully, and he trufled impartially, of Auguß fucceeding, had not any thing to do with cuffed. the late Board, as that Board was at an end in left Captain MARKHAM defended the proceedings than three weeks after the period in the month of of the late Navy Board, and confirmed Mr. Kinnaird Apia which had been Rated. With relped to the in his Ratement refpelling the intention to move for animadverfions on the late Board, he would fay, that a criminal information againft the Honourable Ad- it was not quite fair to animadvert fo iadifctiminatc miral. ly on the conduCt of Lord St. Vincent. lie r,:mein7 The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER. la mented that fo much difcullion had taken place on the fithjea. As the Honourable Officer was anxious for the production of all poilible information, it uolld. perhaps, have been better if opprobrious epi thets which could not be fubllantiated by fad, had been avoided by the Honourable Gentleman who opened the bufinefs. On loch a fubj:.4l as this, he ti titled the Houfe would come to the difcidlion with oil any of thole prejudices witich Inch aggravating reprefentations were calculated to produce. He con cluded by animadverting on the concluding fentence in the Report of the Comm:ffinners of the Navy Board, which afforded no evidence of the existence of any thing like full or fatisfaelory invefligation. Mr. FOX did not mean to go into any difeufGon on the prefent occafinn. He could not, however, admit that the Right Honourable Gentleman who had jolt fat .own way entitled to blame the Honour. able Gentleman for the manner in which be had in• troduced the fubjed. The Honourable Member had introduced no obfervations but fuch as were aridly conneeed with the oh's& he had in view. His ob. jea was to perfuatle the Houfe of the propriety of having the papers produced ; and was it not for that purpofe necelfary to employ fome arguments ? When papers were called for, was it not always pre• vionfly required that a cafe lhould be made nut to the Houle 1 But the Right Honourable Gentleman had argued that there was no necetlity for argument, hecaufe the Honourable Officer did not oppofe the pr.luetion of the papers. He felt himfell called upon to protell againlt filch doerine. It was not parliamentary, and he fruited it would never be ad mitted by the Houle. It was ni.t tit that the Houfe lhould hear of the production of papers nieTely be cattle it happened to Putt the inclination of the parties. He had himfelf leen the relations of parties. voting :,, r p a pers, while thole with whim they were politt conneaed oppoled theit proluttion. He del,' :tted all partiality and prejudice. On the fubjra of Reprt, of which fo much had been laid, he knew' ; but it was fit the matter toll) , in lelligated. Alter this inveiligativn, if the Honour. chic Officer was able to clear his condue, he was fore would afford fincere pleafure to every Member of the Houle. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQIIEIt, in explanation, allowed, that perfons moving for an larphry ought to make out their cafe, but he thought he had realm to complain when a fort of aggravated Ratentent was made on a motion that it was under ttund would not be refilled. Mr. KINNAIRD laid, that the reafon why be l'.Ad moved on this fubjeft was now known to the Houfe. It had become proper for Parliament to en quire into it, hecaufe the Board of Admiralty had la:.1 a cafe, founded on the evidence of the Reports to id : : to them. A, to the general method of pro ' ce d ul ' , : , he tw4lle , :te3 that ;ti the cafes of Sir Rich • tiered that a Right Hon. Gentleman now at the head of his Majefty's Adminittration faw nothing but abate in that department previous to his getting into office, hut not a word was tince heard from the Right Hol.gentleman on the fubjed. When he had moved' for papers, the Right Hon. Gentleman and certain friends of hi., svithed for another mode of proce duet ; but litre he was, that if the p.tpers he dared to be laid before the Houle had been granted, the charafter of Lord St. Vincent, and of a late Board of Admiralty, would derive Nitre from difclofure. It was remarkable too, and (hewed a.: well a change of opinion, as dernondrated the *panels of his reafon ings, that the Right Hon. Gentleman had not, fince his return to office, attempted to bring forward any charges or motions refpeding that Bir.:rd. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQIJER nbferved, that he thought every Honourable Gentle man would at once perceive that one might very well difapprove of the conduet of a preceding Ad miniltration, and yet not enter into a re:rofpeet of the conduct of thole who had comprifed it. He dif. approved of the conchid of the late Boatel of Athol ralty,yet he did not think himfelt called upon to tithe a retrofped of the meafures of the Noble Earl who prefided, or thole of the Gentlemen who aftilled at that Board. Though thinking on thefe fubjeets as he did, yet he entertained an unabated refpet for the public fervices of the Noble Lord. However, he thought it a little too hard to hear it laid, that he had changed his opinion, becanfe he had not exhibited motions against the late Naval Adminittration of this country. As to his opinion of that Adminiar a ton, lie begged that he might be ditlinetly under- Itood. Every opinion he had entertained of it when out of office, had been confirmed by every thing he had ken, or read, or heard, fince his being in office. Vet the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Foe) betrayed ii•srinconlifiency a little, in accufing him of negligence of :li. daties, in regard to his torbtarance towards the late Admiralty ; whereas the Ilonourable Gen tieman. had his recolleßion not tailed kim, might have remembered a period when the dotlrine of re p llitett %could not have proved very favourable to him (Mr. Fox.) Mr. FOX.—" I fh"uld have thought, Sir, that the Right Hon. Gentleman would have difplayed a greater accuracy than he has done. What happens in youth makes a permanent imprtffion. At the pe riod to which the Right Hon. Gentleman has alluded, he was very young. Young memories, however, are retentive of cireumftances that eminently affect them. I am fore that the Right Hon. Gentleman himfelf molt know, that there was nothing in the tranfadion to which he has trantiently alluded, that could give me pain on a tetrofpea of my conduit : but I do ap prehend that the cafe is fnmewhat orherwife as to the Right Hon. Gentleman. Several Members on both fides this Houk know that tranfadion, and will de cide on the merits of that view of it sbich I have The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEVER.—.. I (hall be judged by the world that knows the tranfaftinn." Sir CHA R LES POLE, in reference to the papers fpolten of early in the Debate by Sir Home Popham, faid, that the papers containing the charges againlt Sir Home were fent to the Board of Naval Enquiry, where he believed they Rill were. Sir A. HAMMOND (aid, that the Papers were fent to the Admiralty, and had never found their way back to the Navy Office. The motions were agreed to. WAR WITH SPASM. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEVER informed the Houle 'hat form of the Papers which had been moved for relative to the difcidlion with Spain were mere memorandums, not ligned by any perfon, and therefore could not he ciccmc.d official.— They, however, fhould be prefented to the Honfe, he hoped, to-morrow. He then moved to poltpone his former motion on that fubjea to Friday.—Ordered. Mr. GREY moved for the prodation of accounts received from Admiral Duckworth of the rale of French ptizes in the Spadiffi ports. He had heard of a proclamation iffued by the Government of Cuba, prohibiting the Cale of fuch in future, and he had been informed that the veffels had been taken out of the harbour, in confeqncnce of fuch order, and burned, to prevent their falling into the hands of the enemy. The Hon. Member alto moved for copies of the inttrations which had been font to Ad miral Duckworth in the month of March i 804, and fuhlequent to that period, as to the conduit which he was to purfue to all neutral veirels, particularly thofe of Spain. The motions were feverally agreed tn. MIDDLESEX ELECTION, 1802. On the motion of Lord MARsHAM , the Order of this Honourable Houfe for hearing thecharge againfl Robert Albion Cox, Efq. and Sir William R iwlins, Knt. and alto that they thould be heard by Counfel at the Aar, was read. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEZTER re capitulated lonic of his forme' iirgnmeros agAinil the hearing of evidence at the Bar. It had been :he uni• lot m pradice of the Houle, up to the time of the oaf ling of the Grenville Aa, to take the Report of their Committee into confkleration without hay in g any fur ther evidence before them. It world now moll cer- tainly be a wane of time to adopt a different mode of proceeding. If the witneffes faid the fame at the Bar of the Houle that they had sworn before the Committee there was nothing gained—and, if they fhould i icn to give a contrary ItAtement of what fen within . . . their knowledge, would the Houfe be inclined to he. their unattelted affertion in contradiElion to their muh—could the Houfc pollibly receive the lighter in oppoCtion to the graver tellimony ? He concluded with moving that the prefent order be difcharged. Mr. FOX felt it impollible to cobcur in the grounds Rated for the propofition of the Right Hon. Gentle man, and equally impoilible to accede to the re.: in ter -a of the proceedings he recommended. A great deal of additional difficulty appeared to him to be thrown in the way of loch concurrence by this con federation, that the Houle had already made an order that the parties accufed (hould be heard at the Bar.— This order had been announced to thcfe parties, in coutequence of which they were in attendance, and prepared, no doubt, to produce further evidence, perhaps of Come perfons who were out of the way, or were not known when the cafe war under the in vefligation of the Committee. By fuch farther exa mination of evidence the parties migl t typal to be able to lay before the Houle a more favourable view of their catife. After fuch an order, and fuch pro bable preparation in confequence, it appeared - to him that 'it would be highly unjull to make a new order at the prefent moment. It vont ibe in fa& to fay to the parties, "Although eve have made lowed antecedent to that at, the whole matter of the Election, as well with refped to the feat as to the dud cf the Returning Officers, and all collateral points, were referred to the Committee; and the ni timate decifion upon all there points Rill remained with the Houle, the Report of the Committee fervia z ; guide its judgment. But under the new arrangement, did the Houfe commit to the Committee the whole matter of the cafe ?—No; that Committee was the dernier rept as to the S:at only. Upon that their dccifmn was, according to a LegiLlative ACT, final and conclufive Bot the feat was the only thing upon which the report of fuch Committee was unalterable. —A s to any Special Report which it was authr.rifed to make relative to the conduct of the returning officer , , the Houle retained the full power, which, according to precedent. was uniformly exeicifed, proceed upon fuch (special report in the way u'hi •ti it was the ohjed of the Right Hon! !Irablc Cc man's mo!ion to reverie. The Grenville Ad m ute as clear a dillindion between the power veiled in the Committee, as to the decilion of the Seat, and that relative to a fpecial report, as words could exprels. 'ln the one cafe their power was abfolutc, in the other it belonged to them only to report that there were other circumflances connected with the election which required the interference of the Houfe. Confulering the Report before the Houfe in that view, he could not admit that it fhould have any other influence than that of calling attention to the proceedings of the ac cufed, but by no means that of forming the ground for their convidiun or puniffiment. All the precedents fince the Grenville Ad upon fimilar cafes, jultified this opinim. But the Right Hon. Gentleman who pro pifed another courfe, thought proper entirely to over: , , look thole precedents, and t o l oo k t o t h e con d u ct for merly purfued under circumflances which he con tended were not at all analogous. If the Report of a Committee under the new jurildietion were to be bind ing on the Illtife to adopt, in what a dilemma would the Houfe be placed, furpore that an Election Commit tee on the Shoreham cafe, or on that of Nottingham, had, in addition to the other particularsin their Report, refolved that the right of Elation ought to be thrown °pea that the Electors fhould be increafed 1 ‘‘".4llkl not the admiffion suf fuch an authority, in the report of a Committee, as he had alluded to, be in cfred, to delegate to fuch Committee the Legifla tive power of the Houre ? Yet, fuch an inference would naturally follow from the arg uments ()fed by the Right Honourable Gentleman. If, then, that ar gument, or the propofition that followed, could not be foil:tined by reafon, the conltitution of the Houfe, or precedent, he thought that jultice would urge the adopti at of fuels a line of proceeding as might he molt f(vourable to the interett of the accufed, and an order that you thould be heard at the B.A. to day ; although you may have taken great trouble to coiled evidence to duo* new light upon your cafe, and to repel the charges againft you, yet we have changed our mind, ani you cannot be heard —we mean to re-confider the fubj.:fl." Such arctlld be the language of the Houle to the accurcd, lliould the propofition of the Right Honourable Gentleman he adopted. The prailice ref tred to by the Rizlit Honourable Gentleman, which prevailed before the enaament of the Grenville Bill, was not, he contended, analogous to the cafe under confldera• tion, or to any cafe under that ; for, in the for mer itiaance, it was to be rzeollefled, that the Coro• minces upon Eleftion Petitions were, though nomi nally Seleft Committees, act - T(1161e to all the Mem bers of the Houle, and therefore every Member might attend to examine and crolz-exanline the evi dence. Of courfe, the Report of loch Committee , mutt be different in the eflimation of the Houfe, from thofe of the Committees under the Grenville Aft, which confilted but of a few Members. In the one cafe all the Members of the Houfe were competent to attend and inveftigate any part of the fubjeCt, while in the other only a few fele& perfons were permitted to do fo. This difference he the mote dwelt on, in order to thew, that from the change which had taken place in the jurifdiCtion upon Eleftion cafes, the cootie torinetly ruined was not fairly applicable at prefent. The Right Honourable Gentleman had endeavoured to fupport his propolition by reforting to the popular argumeat, which, in his opinion, could make no impreffion upon any candid rational man—namely, that becaule the wi;nelf,:s would not be on oath at the Bar, although they were In before the Committee, that therefore w. 2 lhould have no examination of evidence whatever heroic the Houle. The queltitm for confideration was nor whether the Committee was more competent to investigate a ; charge againft individuals, and to afcertain their i guilt or innocence. Perhaps the Court of King's Bench was Bill more competent to filch an invelliga von. But that was nut the point before the Honk. The queition was this, whether. when executing the office of a criminal judicature, the Houle would aft according to its own coriaitution, or to the principles of equity, if it proceeded to pronounce judgment without any examination of evidence as to the n more of the cafe upon which it was called on to judge In declaring a negative to this question, he bad little doubt if being (*imported by a full confederation of the praCtice of the Houfe, and by the opimon of dif paffiunate men. The Grenville Aft, whatever other perfons might think of it. or however it might be eon - lidered in other refpefts, had created an anomaly in the coattitation of that Houle. By the courte that, obvionfly, was to allow them to bring forward any further evidence that it might be in their power to produce, for their exculpation. Any different courfe would, he was quite perfuaded, be felt as inconfiffent with the ends of fubttantial juftice, as it would be with the fpirit of our laws. That law uniformly laid, that a man accufed of any offence fhoold be Cully heard before fcntence Ihould be pronoa, cad, and that law very properly allowed, that if any cir curnliances could be difcnvered to alter the nature of it the charge, and to eflablifh the innocence of the ac cured up to the moment before the time fixed for the infliaion of punifhment, the fentence Ihould be re vetted. Here, however, it was propofed to deviate entirely from that laudable and filtitary mode of proceeding. Since the inveffigation of this cafe be fore the Committee, circnmttances had occurred, which, without meaning any refleftion what, ver on the judgment, principles, or charaaer of the Gentle men who compared that Committee, would, he was perfuaded, prevent them at the prefent day from pro nouncing as a jury that verditl which appeared in the Report on the table. Was it not then but fair to allow there circumffances to he laid before the Houfe by evidence at the Bar ? It would be unjust towards the Houle, and it would he cruel towards the parties accufed to exclude filch evi dence. If a criminal were convieted of the moll !lei mins offence, that power in whom the right of par don k conffitutionally vetted, would not heft ate even the moment before the appointed execution of tence, to remit that fentence and pardon the accufed, Ihould any fags mile to prove his innocence. This example fhould be attended to in the cafe tinder con fideration, and (tumid urge the Houle to afford the accufed every opportunity of exculpation before it attempted Lo pronounce judgment.—This was not only the opinion which he eatertaiod, bur th,t which was fanaioned by all farmer proceedings in limiter cafes. In the Shoreham Cafe, which the Noble Lord ch..fe as the precedent to follow, writ one exception only, in this instance, lie recollect ed Crime debate, and a divifion alio, the refult of which was, a determination oppofed only by a very final' minority, that thofe acculed Ihould he heard fully by evidence, and by Counfel at the Bar. Such was the mode that joltice, law, and pre cedent fuggefled to the Houle on the prefent occa lion, and ire felt the charaaer of the Houle, and of public equity, to be In much concerned, that he could nut help refilling the introduCtion of a different prac tice. 'rhe evidence which appeared in the repot t might have been taken in a look way, or it might he imperial, and a farther examination at the bar might elucidate many important fires. This wat not at all impoffible, netwithaanding the dole ferutiny laid to have taken place before the Committee, and the known accuracy of the Coonfel employed, whore ability no man more highly refpetled than he did, and upon even the poffibility of Poch elucidation, he would have the p tales allowed a farther hearing. Thole parties he had heard it intimated, wen: willing to acqtriefe: ir. the refit . ..if of any farther examination of evidence; of this he knew nothing pofi ively, but even if it were to, it senteld .fret no change in the opinion he en• 4l . tiiPed. I iowever, if upon appearing at the bar tht.y adn.;t!ed the evidence as it flood in the Report, their admiiii it malt of cottrfe be received; but in no other way could he notice that admiflion, becaufe it was not more his objet to render perfea juffice to the ae. cake!, in this inflanct, than to guard againft the eftablifhment of a precedent that wa• likely to leaf! to great injuffice towards others. ha Honourable Member concluded with obferving, that under all the circumffances of the cafe, particularly atter Lavin appointed a hearing at the bar on this day, a n d („'., tiered the attendance of the parties accordingly, is would be one of the liarfheft proceedings •magurahl c to reverie that order now, and (hike into a new :“'t: 9profileliars car.