Star. — London, England, 1801-05-28 00:00:00

• • PARLIAMENTARr CROC.EEDOWS. IN CONTINUATION FROM THE PRECEDING PAGE. HOUSE OP COMMONS, WEDNESDAY, MAY 17. lik-Wit I.IAM CIARY brought up a Bill for erc _ling a Hui Mtlfkiet in the Borpifigh, which was read a firft time. Mr. Maori. tiffught up the Report of the con....i:tt-e vatted to enquire into the numb,: of perfoos fitting in the Haute q Reprefeotatives for Ireland, who held places of in. lament, which *as ordered to be taken into coofidernion w 113011 TOW. Mr. Moor gave notice, that he mould is-morrow move fe leave to brincln a Bill to are.crtain by name the pedal% wit , Mould be entitled to fit in that Houfe, as Reprefentatives for Ireland, and hold places of emolument. The btioircut Debtors' Bill 'fru brought from the Houfe o: Lords. Mr. BRA cum brought up the Report of the Committee or the kids Foundling Hapltal Bill, which was agreed to, anti the Bill ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. Mr. VAN 111 TTART pretested a Bill for the farther improve ment of the Manufattures and literenlat of dm 10e of Mau :-. Alto a DUI to render valid all abases de_rwhasisi Of abs or ders of his Majefty's Coszted, Min Se illbtliven In Ituffia, ad the detention of Rada% DEO, awl dawns verds:— Alfo a Bill to feeare a Peaks st soul yer mama to Lady Jthereraenby. Mr. T. Jones—Sir, I maw sillhesseely and cordially In this Penton but wbea • Padget Lid WNW dis 140 May] lass lately bear atm oak Ml* dim ha argata grates the country, and, I stay lay. Mile emu/ nick borror e - I do hope, Sir, that thi Ma as at dis odes sisait mime who fell in Egypt, will OMNI be migrated by tbdr emery. —The Bills were read sIA dm, gal ordered to be read a fecund time to-morrow. The irills Indemnity BM me mad a third time and pared. • The Conunittees of Ways and Means aad Supply were de ferred till Monday. MARTIAL LAW IN IRILAND. The Order of the Day being read, for the Houk to take into confederation the Report of the Secret Committee, Mr. Assort Paid, no man in that Houk had a greater diflike than himfelf to coercive meafures, and he was extremely forry he was under the ne ceffity of recommending then' ; but the Report of the Secret Committee, which the Honk was in poifeffion of, fully evinced the untranquil Rate of Ireland, and had, he doubted- not, (hewn to the Houle the neceflity of the meafures that were al ready adopted in Ireland, and of that which he had that night to propofe. The Report, he kid,: fully confirmed all that had been Paid in that Houk relative to Ireland, and be was forry to fay, that the difturbed Rate of that country feemed ra ther to increafe than diminifh. The Houle would perceive that the flame of rebellion was unquench ed. As every Hon. Member had an opporttodty of satisfying his mind by a petufal of the he fhould not take up the time of the Htfre l r; commenting upon it, becaufe he thought it was fo leery clear that very little oppofnion could be given to a continuance of thofe meafures which were -foand fo neoeffary, and *hick had produced the ben effeas. He then moved --g , That leave be given to continue, for a time to be limited, an Aa palled' in the preknt Seffion of Parliament, for empowering the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland to enablifh Martial Law in that country." Mr. WHITBREAD Paid, he was glad he had op pored the meafure now before the Houk, when it was firt introduced. He Was then perfuaded it :would not have any beneficial effeas, and cape rieace bad proved to him that the opinion he had formed was a jun one; as they had then heard from the other fide of the Houle, that the flame Of rebellion was unquenched. This, be Paid, was nothing more than he exponed. What effea, he allied, - had Martial Law ? That it had not put down rebellion, was very evident ; and he was convinced nothing beneficial could be drawn from it. He was well pedboded bow indreSual all the oppofition he cold air MUM be er yet that i .. • not prevent his *eh deed*. wbee theßill was brought in, as be WPM teed while themeafure. He transpillkr imMit. be aseei th k en sacred in Imbued W • tillage. • NW *it only offeaual veethed of relievior 'dint front its dinettes, woidd be a yomm—emil the period arrived, beamed Bede was to be sepodelL .^ Mr. Hannay: ltamrwerld, it was evideMbete the Report of the Secret Cdlllllllitted, due Woad nose not in a worts Sate than &imams ; be rade. thought the flue of that c was ineadedoiir Ma dad• sot 'octave of the Bllilt as a witafpre of aeselrey to avert greater evils; pad dbeillOofe sod' recoiled it was Dot to be a penmeneast 111/1. Ms outland that he acceded to the atedbit with mitamice, and he was very to obit it Aelial he anneceffary, if the Em re wee Miffed reode with a e ; but as that defira le eve* could mot be tiMised at prefect, confltlent with the ho nour and dignity of the country, furl sesrares nutnise reforted to as were likely to prove effedinal in ftsppreSng the difcoatent that prevailed; and die pedant WI he confidered as putting the axe to the moot. Mr. O'Hata Paid, that Ireland was in a very afferent fituatien from what it was when the Bill was Ira pared. He thought the Committee had out a fair opportunity of judging of the Rate of Ireland, not fitting in that country. He had a eight to doubt the namments liven into that Honfe floes they did not accord with thole he bad him felf received. He Paid by far the greaten part of Ireland was in a Rate of perfeet tranquillity. Upon that part of she Report of there being hie. Emit faries in France, much firers, he fad, had been hid, bat he willed the Mode to retie& that thofe perfoas had led from Ireland a long time ago, and it was ao wonder that they fbould be defirous of creating a rebellion ; but he did not think fuf icient was to be dreaded from the machinations of thofe perfoas to aide the prefent Bill via:4er , ', their fituation in France was not what it was. He did not, however, mesa to oppnfe the Bill alto. ether, bet he diked it to be in force as abort a time as paibia. Hs then proceeded to comment at differemparte of the Report, front whiathe Joined is country was, as his own Ovate re pels bad bad it to k, in a peaceable date; and liimught is Comaitwe took their foil:Kim' of its Wog #s a &ate of rebellion store front what it was, ohm s ees err. By the re two tis pol s :.,, i ti t ap- W a viirda oily parts ef Ireland Is an entree. silliteme l dwi that the red of the emsorry was in - . ' - literimoot saidlislomee. Tbet Wag the . • . _ _ .. - cafe, he was in hopes it would not have ,beer hought neceffary to put the whole Illand under I &rtial Law. If the Secret Committee had refer to the Judges, they would in his mind have of into the beft channel to receive true informa ion. There was now no difficulty in executing to laws, which he was perfuaded the Committee ould have been informed of, had they applied to ofe who adminiflered them. He wifhed to fee eland reinßated in the good opinion of the peo e of E ngland, theref ore he wifhed every infor ation to be given which might tend to this end. Sir F. Buantrr would not admit, with an Ho rturable Gentleman (Mr. H. Browne) that Mar !al Law had produced any good effeet in Ireland. It was fufficient to read the Report to be con vinced of the mifchief it had occafioned. The public mind was more exafperated, and the affec• ttons of that country more alienated than ever.— When no good whatever could therefore be ex pefted from the renewal of coercive meafures, he oppofe any Bill that could tend to introduce them. Sir Roblin. Bottom defended the condua of the Secret Committee. He was convinced that the Bill already paired had bad a good effea, and confequently he recommended its continuance, from a conviaion that it would be attended with advantage, and was likely to reftore tranquillity to Ireland. Sir Jour PARNELL hoped, if Ireland was to be continued under Martial Law, k would be for as ihort a time as poffible. He was very much in dined to think lenient meafures would at prefent have a more beneficial effect than coercion. The Sate of Ireland at this period, was rather that of defpondency than reliftance ; and he thought the Committee did not apply to thole fources frpmi which they were likely to receive the molt correct information. He agreed with his Hon. Friend, that the opinion of the Judges ought to have been taken, and the Committee ought not to have de pended upon the report of military officers, who certainly could not be confidered the belt fources of information. The whole Viand, he Paid, was in a deplor#ble Rate, and emigration, shad in created to a molt alarming degree. if the Houfe, inftead of patting Bills to continue Martial Law in , Ireland, would turn their thoughts towards amend ing the fituation of the poor, the unfortunate and diftretred peafantry, which he was perfuaded was their with, they would do much more towards re-1 Iloring tranquillity than ever could be done by inch a meafure as that now under confideration. He declared it as his opinion that the Committee had not ettablitted its cafe, nor taken fuch pains as it ought ; and at belt he thought there was more prudence .than neceffity in the meafure, fince the names of the Counties where rebellion exills are not even mentioned. To one part of the Report be muff give his decided oppofition, that which Rates that the Landed Inter& of Ireland looked to France for protection ; this hepotitively denied —for he laid if there was one defcription of his. Majefly's fubjefti more attached to his perfon and government than another, it was the Landed In tereil of Ireland. However they might differ as to particular forms, they were to a man attached to the Britith Government. Any influation to the contrary he fhould not hefitate tos declare un founded, nor could he conceive how it got into the Report. Before he fat down he mutt &terve, that in this year there were only la Courts-Martial, and there were 74 in Lift year, which was a ttrong proof that rebellion had decreafed. It alto ap peared that out of the 33 Counties in Ireland, 29 are in a tranquil Sate : he therefore thought Mar- 4 tial Law fhould at Icaft not be extendedthrough out the whole Bland. In that part of the Report which relates to England, the diSprbances are laid to arife from the high price of provifions. Would not. bralked. the fame palliation aPPIy with re fps& to Inlaid. where the dißurbances are laid to proceed from a fpirit of rebellion ? . Have not they the high price of prairies to murmur at ,situ! He mai, he Aid, again recommend tome sedum to ameliorate the fituation of the people. as the only means of relining tranquillity. He 4 hoped theenquiries would be liberal, particularly with refped to the peafantry, from which he pro- mifed himfelf and the Houfe the molt happy cads. . Mr. Lawn agreed with the Hon. Baronet in giving every praife to the men of property in Ire had, andif the rebellion ffiould ever extend itfelf to dikommtry, the men of property here need not be aim* to follow their example • had it' note, been far iok loyal exertions, Ireland Mull inevi tably bistibts loft. Did the Hon. Baronet with for any mudire that thould give fecarity . to•the lives and priperties of the loyal inhabitants of Ireland, Visa did, this was that very meafure. If when dia ansaktre was at a former periosi before the lima. it was ebjetbed tbsiewas net (Efficient evidence if its neeiffity, there ontrosatomaimple mad of evidence evaitolood faille Imo% of the Secret Coo mitts is addition es is be knew of his own knowledge draw perfats belies lately been murdered. For taking a part againik the Re bels, and their landlord had received notice that he alto should be murdered. He was firmly con; ' viewed of the stalky of the Bill. Sir WILLIAM NIWCOMIIII (aid, Iftlatid was in a very deplorable Rate and was every hour becom ing work. If Mar tial Law bad not citified, ten times the number of judges at prefent affix% in behind would have been infitfficient to carry into effed the ordinary coerce of Law ; and if the Bill now awed for did not pats, the country would b e undone. Mr. Joess.-0 Really the reprefentation which the Gentlemen from Ireland now renews with Rronger liatements than when kit time the Mar tial Law Bill paired. makes me dagger much ; sad I do ne" think - I can is that Oatement well ipbte aigassa the intrododion of this Bill propolid. —Bo o Sir, I thould certainly like to know, whe ther er met (es has been referred to very properly by an Hoeserable Member), the Judges have been applies( to: this alteration in the Civil Law F eed was at all ' r Ter joie AILIIIIkkin Cap. ' wilted it to be clearly andialkood i thu M was very far indeed front imiwirg to caA way reflation too the loaded , Intereft of Ireland, of whore noble efforts be had the higheft opinion. It was from a convitlion of ' their unthaken and unalterable loyalty that he re gretted the exillence of a palaec in the Report of the Committee, which even would create a fufpi cion of their dilaffeCtion. • Mr. Oc Li, atter briefly Rating the fuscous which induced him, when the Bill was formerly before the Houfe, to delineate the principles, the rife and the progrefs of rebellion in Ireland, as illuftratilg the neceffity of the meafure, expreffed his unwil lingnefs at prefent to repeat his former are-' menu. He had only to fay, that his former opi nions remained unchanged, and that he had now the fulleft conviction of the law being NI wanted in Ireland. Whatever might be anted of the tranquillity and peaceful habits of particular dif triEts he believed that the fpirit of difailtaion exifted, to a certain degree, in all parts, and that this difatfeEtion was ready to burft into= rebellion over the whole Wand. It was • fant for him to be obliged to draw fuch a pie— ture of his country, but he did not think that he would be doing his duty to his coal:Gents if he did not Rate faits on which the aecafty of a meafure of pmteßion to property, and en• coumgement to loyalty might be eflablifliaL-- The Hon. Member then proceeded to detail a va riety of fads to eftablifh his pofitions. He ad verted to the apprehenfion of a Committee of the difaffefted in Dublin, over whofe Prefident's chair was laced a Portrait of the Fiat Conful of France. He (poke of the exiitence of einiffaries in thiscoure try, who laboured to debauch the principles of the people. He mentioned the eriftence of a Dbnov tory at Paris holding a correfpondence with ann., ther at Harnburgh, and that in its turn conveyed information to the DireEtory in Dublin, by the members of whom intelligence was circulated over all the fnbordinate Committees in the various dif nil% of the country. Having dilated on there topics, he in oonclafion preffea on the Hattie the prolongation of the Bill, as necefrary to the fafety of the empire. Mr. Coors followed on this fide,Vindicated the continuance of the Bill, and paired Tome is_er high compliments on the adminierntintiof the Marquis Cornwallis with more particular reference to this' , Bill, in the application of which that &Arlon& Nobleman Teemed to him entitled to the warmer; ; gratitude and praife of Ireland. Mr. ALEXANDER denied that the * ..of land were at prefent in the Rate o which had been reprefented. This (if it did exift) was confined to trams fchemes had been &nitrated by the salient efforts of the loyal part of the community. Be repro- bated the ufe of vague affertions about the necef fity of meliorating the Rate of the poillre land, as tending to give currency to a tion that the Houfe were negligent of their interefts. He fpecified the (urns granted laft year for feveral purpofes intimately connected with the agriculture and improvement of the Country, and tuf i l l s te bj . no means inclined to believe that it was the tion of the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir. J. Parnell) to countenance any dangerous opinion, yet he witted not that any fulpicion of the Houle being inattentive to the improvement of the &nation of the People of Ireland, &odd go abroad to the public, with the fanetion of 63 gnat a name. On the Motion being Of, it pared without & divifion, and leave was granted to liring m the ntrisnisive The ATTORNEY Gentlest. rofe in purfnenee of the notice he hidgiVen,and of the retommentation oldie Committee of Secrecy, to move for leave to bring in a bill, the ()bled of which he merely thought it neceffary, in this Rage of the hufinefs, shortly to explain. It was for the purpolh'bf in lemnifying thole who had aged in aria confiftency with their public duty, but who, from the inade quacy of tbc prefent milling laws, could not de fend themfelves ag3inft the charge of aging not Aridly legally, withOtit breach of that public duty, and *Of tke tooft folenni private engagements.— Confidering that thefe ass had been founded up ion the btue4lntfis of public duty, and had opera edifor the - henit and•advantage of the public, he thought isci indemnity could be too ample; and it was aierefore his intention the Bill fhould provide that all perfons irnpleaded for any filch a 4 Amid be exonerated from all penalties or damages what. ever,upon alledging they aged in pnrfuance of any one of certain Ras, which, in the aft now moved for, would be irderted. He moved for leave to bring in a Bill to indemnify fuch perfons who had line the aft of February, 1793, been inftru. mental in apprehending and detaining or caufing to be detained in prifon in Great Britain, any per. lons on fufpicton of High Treafon, or o therwife." He pi poled, he Laid, to bring in the Bill to.mor: •=vlhat it &add then be read a firft time, and a time on Tnefday, and in the mean time 'onald be printed. W.,Gitay laid, as the (econd reading was pro pofed to be on Tnefday, and as there would then be probably a fuller attendance, and the contents of the Bill would be better known, he would for bear entering at my length into the fubjefl. Even in the prefent Rage, however, he could not, upon the grounds ;Rued, agree to the meafure. The Habeas Corpus had been frequently fufpended, lint the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had not Dated any precedent of a meafure fimilar to the prefent, and upon the firft appearance of (uch a meafure, novel and unprecedented as it was, he could not help faring it was die molt inconfiftent of all the inconfißent alb which had been brought forward by his Majefty's Miniften within the tuft fix years. The Avroaiiar Grmm., in explanation, Paid there was a precedent of a fimilar meafure in the year 1746, and another in the year t 7tio. Mr. ARC HDALL Paid, the principle of the mea fure was by no means novel. Sir b F. B. Jonas oblerved, that perfons had been imprifoned without evidence, and thole who had opprefied them were now to be indemnified with out enquiry. Mi. TIERNEY Paid, the recommendation for a Billof Indemnity came from the very perfons who went° be indemnified, fence feveral of dine indi viduals bad formed a part of the Committee, and contributed to make up the Report. He ttooofit it orange that if there were doubts of the legal it y of the proceedings of his Majelly's Knitters, th a t Come meafure of this kind had not been btotight forward during fix years ; and he was afraid, to propofe it now would give tome colour to an un founded report which gi ve abroad that there was a juggle between his Majefty's late and p re . tent Minifters. • Mr. Prrr aid, he would not detain the Houfe in this nage of the bufinefs, but he thought it ab. folutely neceffary the object of the Bill Should not be mifunderftood. It was not a Bill to jullify or to fanction certain individual meafures, but was to pieced perfons from being puitifhed for Ads performed in arid conformity with their public duty, but the legality or propriety of which they could not defendwithout endangering the lives of others. Information of the higheft importan4e had been derived from certain fources which ought not to be clifclofed, and which could not be dif. &fed without endangering the lives of thofe who gave it, and cutting off all thofe refources for the future • and it was to prevent this difclofure, th a t the prefent =dun was fought for. The public fafety, as well as the fafety of individuals,required the meafure; and Curtly it was not to be urged that evidence was to come before the Houfe, that the fafety of difelofing it might be lodged of. Surely the Committee was not to be vitiated, be eagle one or two refponfible individuals were mem. ben of it. He acknowledged his own refponfibility was deeply implicated, but he difclaimed fuch an infmnauon, and he trotted, when the general in dependence and refpedability of that Committee wero.confidered, their impartiality would not for a moment be difputed. Mr. TlielitY explained, and raid the Committee had no authority to make filch a Report. Mr. Barioue contended the Committee had a full and coMpleat authority to tuggers to the Houle any meafure which they might think expe dient grounded apdn the papers refirred to them. Dr. LAW/ATMS was ready to grant indemnity after a fall and fair enquiry, but not otherwife. The CHANCELLOI of the Exensopsa hoped what had been fluted by his Hon. Friend would completely remove the doubts (tasted as to the power of the Committee to whom Tapers had been referred. They were undoubtedly at liberty to reconmtand whatever meafures appeared to them expedient. The Sm. Gent an (Mr. Tierney) had contanded the Miaow propaed did not fairly a iir e mot thofe papers* he contended it did, and there they were at ilfne. It was impoilible the perdu whom it was wilted to indlimeify could defend the lfelves wirjmut full/Awl,* _obliga tions of sad pirate duty, asddsertiore th e 1111 Widkr4ed to what bad bees. by (I& Tier. nay, 1 1 1 thf ebetweenlis Majelly's late and prefent . l6: - bethought it wholly unworthy of that Hon. Clettleman. •No .fuch exprelEon, bowery, whether it ems frost that Hon. Gentle., man, or any other perfon, !bald deter him from dun Elu's pub li c duty?, nor thould any infinnation of a ggleizetween bu Maje . ftre late and prefent drier him from giving a confcientious vote for the prciteOtion pfthole whole meafures had, in his opinion, fared the country. With thofe Minifters he had fonietiMee differed in opinion, but never with raped to thole meafures which had Paved the country from deftrogion; and he would not-be deterred from amain to prated that' who had prototted the country. He' now allied that for others, for which, by and by, perhaps, he mould have to ark foi himfelf., Let it not be tux darltood, however, that he futmortsd the prefeat *alike from any felfilh conliderationt---every one who did his duty was entitled to pioteCtioo, and he hoped that whilit he performed • the duties af figned to him, the Lime protection would be ex tended to him. Mr. Geer, in explanation, Paid he belonged to the Comniittee to which the Right Hon. Gentle man and others had alluded; and though he did not concur in opinion with the Committee, he cer tainly had not flioken in difretedful terms of it. The Coaticat.toe of the txcoectore laid, it was not the Hon. Gentleman to whom.he had al luded, but to thous with whom - be was in the habit of ading. Mr. Ts las T'hoogh I slid not affert that there was a juggle betweeti the late and prefent Minifter, I retain the right of accufmg them, fhould I make up my mind that•fuch has been the fad. It may again excite the anger of the Right Ho ' nourable Gentleman ;• but if I think the matter is fo, he (hall 'etrtainly hear it. I have no interelt, no difpofition to attack bim, aqd in kindnefs to him (a laugh) I wills the matter to be cleared up. I ern him to appear with proper dignity-in the eyes of the people ; Co that they may not ;think the country was in fad gOverned by a man who does not for the moment choofe to appear in the character of a Minifier. At prefent, how ever, I have no proofs, and I make no accu- Cation." Mr. Burros defended the conduct of the Com mittee, and afferted the purity of the motives which influenced the recommendation upon which the Bill before the Houle was founded. Mr. Ti , in explanation, declared, he bad no slifpofition to arraign the motives of fuch Gen tlemen as might be inclined to vindicate the cha- • meter of the late Minifters. He would not deny them that merit of acting from conviction which he claimed for himfelf. Mr. Jones Paid, I concur is ith my Hon. Friead (Mr. Tierney) in thinking this Bill (which I mall f peak of more at l arge h e re a ft er ) is intended to (erten the Ex-Minifter, as Inch I object to it. As to the word juggle. I have often heard it, and have (as I have - kid formerly) differed with Tome Friends on the fubjed ; I do not believe it myfelf. I allure you, but all a can fay is, that every day I am eternally allied, Who is the real Minifier? The motion was agreed to without a divifion, and the Bill ordered to be brought in accord ingly. lb...Ronson ' oa 'account of the Intends of the hour, deferred till tomorrow, his promifed sum few an Account of the Subfidies granted der , g ing the Wax.—Adjournet.