Star. — London, England, 1818-03-19 00:00:00

. for the honour of England to see the judgments her tribunals carried into effect. But there was rem difference between the common courts of law of the country, and the tribunal which administered international law ; because from the moment that a contract covering all claims was entered into with Spain, it became part of the law of nations. It was liseeefore no impeachment of British justice to have transferred its judgments.to Spain. These judgments, except in one case, were not against the public, but - affected the captors. And the persons who had fined them thought so little of a remedy from captors, that the judgments were at such a dis • that they might be purchased for a few shil in the pound. Nay, before the recent Treaty, gent for the Spanish claimants had complained a compensation had been given to those of Por ' (by the 300,0001. paid to its Government) whilst Spanish subjects were left to endeavour to procure relief by expensive suits at law. As to the cases in different stages of proceeding, they consisted of -trone. Out of that number the Act of 1815 no application whatever to sixteen, for it had no retrospective effect. Out of the five hat remained, were in progress of examination, and no judg whatever had been given. The fifth, which . the only one in which judgment had been °b aled, stood on totally different grounds. It was • of the Rosa, which had not been captured at ,ut had been thrown by stress of weather on our shores, taken possession of by a British Officer, and condemned in the Court of Admiralty. As the law rather been strained in that case, and there was Iputation against the vessel, her value had been ordered to be restored. Out of the sixteen first cases, five judgments had been obtained, and that against the captors, and not against the State. The - against the public had therefore entirely disap peared. The Honourable and Learned Gentleman .. not pretend that there was any ambiguity in Treaty to prevent the party from going to Ma . with the judgments from this country in their hands, and claiming compensation. There was no %%t of that. The King of Spain was to take upOn mself to compensate his subjects for the losses which might have sustained up to the signature of the y. Could any thing be plainer? There was another consideration which rendered it wise to refer claimants to Spain for a compensation. Many ,mericans and subjects of other nations had earned their depredations in disguise under the Spanish and attempted to claim satisfaction as Spa niaids. But the Spanish Goveniment would be able to clear the point. He hoped that the Honourable Gentleman's mind was now relieved from the appre hension that any imputation of injustice could be thrown on the character of the country, and that, persuaded that nothing had been done but what policy ' wisdom required, the House would concur with in giving a negative to the motion. Lord ARCHIBALD HAMILTON was of opinion _ gross injustice had been done to the claimants somewhere. This he had not heard the Noble Lord v. The case of the American Treaty cited by the totile Lord, he contended was by no Means in point. ' with respect to the assertion of the Noble Lord, . the claimants might apply to Spain under the :reaty, it appeared to him that the Correspondence an the table between the Noble Lord and the parties afforded a sufficient proof that they had no claim on Spain under the Treaty. Was it fair, 'after a long process of litigation, which they had maintained at -.onsiderable expense, to turn these parties over to the 'it of a Treaty which the Noble Lord himself not go so far as to say gave them any claim ? —ELord Castlereagh observed across the table, that had distinctly stated that the Treaty did give the trties in question a claim on Spain.]--If that were •- was nevertheless clear to him, from the Corres lence on the table, that in those particular cases Court of Spain was exempt from liability. He Id certainly vote for the motion ; at the same he imputed the blame not to the Courts in this ail, but to the Ministers by whom the Treaty .1 been arranged. Lord CASTLEREAGH stated, in explanation, no parties whatever were excluded from the be of the Treaty concluded with .Spain. WYNN, while he admitted that the sovereign tthority of a State must have the power which the ole Lord attributed to it, contended, that the way which that power was exercised was quite a diffe thing. Where we had pointed out to the parties luestion the mode by which they could obtain a ' remedy, and they had adopted those means, we not entitled to shut them out from the remedy. case of America was not applicable to the pre , question; for it was notorious, that after the ferment of the war, the Courts of Law in that coun - were not seats of Equity. There were only four and all that was desired by the Address moved ry his Honourable and Learned Friend was, that tvision should he made in order that those claim might receive the whole of what was adjudged them, without being put to the expense, trouble, ' risk of again prosecuting their claims before a lish Tribunal. :. BROUGHAM was of opinion, that if the •onsent of the Court of Spain to abolish the trade • the only result of the payment of 400,0001. k td be sufficient ; but he considered that the addi tal arrangement relative to the right of search ithout which the abolition of the trade would be possible), was of itself worth the whole sum. It - also to be recollected that the Spanish Govern received this money partly in consideration of _ _ making good the losses sustained by their sub by captures ; to which indeed one-half of it id probably be applicable. The Honourable and Learned Gentleman argued at considerable length, the act of our Government was not the cause of injustice that might be apprehended; for if no ay - had been concluded, it would have been com ,ot to the Spanish Government to bar the claims the parties in question by an act of State. It was certainly a case of great hardship on the parties who brought actions and obtained judgments, and on _ credit of those judgments had perhaps obtained advances ; but there were many other cases of hard ', arising out of the established principle, that sub .. were bound by the acts of their sovereign. Up the final adjudication, the whole claim of a captor might be abandoned for him by his Government ; saddling him pith all the costs of his action. He — , ht however, that it would have been much 0 was for 1 of her t I athettlitiae t a coit in tr teC : an i i ,• 1 • liswefor transfer exce pt only aff i obtainer the pt •, ' count t} 1 lings in the Age • that a c i 1 , fugal (la: Spanish ' relief b; different twenty-. had no retrospe four we t I rnent wl was the tained, that of sea, but shores, condem e had rat} !no imps ordered only five against 1 p case a peared. could n the Tre i 1 ) drid wit hands, doubt a himself • . 'i. they mi Treaty. another the clai Americ on their 1 flag, ai niards. , ! , I ' to clear Gentler hension thrown I .. persua.,3 and wi! . 1 . , bim in Lord i, 1 Lord a v., somew) I 1 • deny. l. Noble I .1 And wi • I 1 that the i . Treaty, on the i afforde Spain u process , conside I • result o would i --ELor he had parties i so, it w. ponden. the Cou • should time he country 1 1 had bee Lord • ; , that no nets of fi( t Mr. 1 I . j , , Noble I • i ' ! 1 in whirl • t . - rent this r in quest I: , 2 , g ier a e l c re , e ne "I , a i. , T .1 'A sent qui . 1 . . : • . ferment , try were cases, a: `I I - for by I provisic I , • ants mil I to them . .1 I and ris& 1 i Spanish ii consent were th would I tional r. / , • (withou i i 1 impossi 11. was als, , / , • ment re I their m jests 1): world 1 . , Learner that the .. , any inj. Treatf 1 1 • i ll potent t t 1 ' I , 1 :1 of the p certain! had bro the crec • advance ship ari jests we to the 6 might 1 saddling . ' I thought • . \ 1 1 i „. ‘' 1 .1 e, S • -.* . .. •., , ' . better had resort been had in the instances in quesa tion to the Droits of Admiralty. In conclusion, the Honourable and Learned Gentleman expressed his earnest and anxious hope, and indeed his sanguine expectation, that by the stipulations which had been entered into between some of the Governments of Europe (which he trusted would be very speedily extended) and more especially by the admission of the right of search, the great measure of the total abolition of the Slave Trade would ere long be com pletely accomplished. Lord CASTLEREAGH, in reference to what had just fallen from the Honourable and Learned Gen tleman, was persuaded it would be satisfactory to to him and to the House to be informed, that the Go vernment of the Netherlands had signified their rea diness to assent to the principles of the Treaties with Spain and Portugal ; and that a Treaty to that effect was in a state of great forwardness—(hear.) Mr. WILBERFORCE contended, that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had tailed in making the distinction on which his whole motion rested. As to the parties, whose claims were under consideration, instead of being Spanish, it was probable that they were all of other countries. Unhappily the arts of fraud were brought to such perfection, that it was not easy for a Court of Law to detect impostors. He could not help thinking that this circumstance was one cause of the great solicitude manifested on this subject. The trade having chiefly existed to the south of the line, it had been, in a great measure, dis continued for a great part of that portion of Africa in consequence of the French having been driven from Senegal in the beginning of the late war. There had been, indeed, an entire cessation of the trade on that part of the coast, and in consequence of that cessation the result had been as flattering as the most sanguine abolitionists could wish. The natives find ing it advantageous began to employ themselves every where in the pursuits of honest industry—va rious plantations were seen on the Senegal—the na tives began to shew themselves without fear. What had been the effect since the restitution of that Co- lony to France ? Now nothing but desolation was vi sible ; vilages destroyed ; smoking ruins. The poor negroes had all been obliged to abandon their homes. To the honour of his Noble Friend the abuses to which criminal neglect in that quarter had given rise, had no sooner been stated to him than he exerted himself with the French Government to have the evil remedied, and it was but justice to the French Go vernment to say that it had shewn itself alive to the principles of humanity. The French Government had actually removed one Governor already for fa vouring the trade. After the cessation of the trade to the North of the Line by Spain and Portugal there were only two great Powers remaining, France and America, whose consent he had no doubt would also be obtained. He could not believe that France, after the declarations which that country had made, would nut consent to every measure necessary to put a com plete stop to the trade. He could not but think this the more when he considered the person who was now at the head of France, and the humanity for which he was distinguished. That person knew what it was to be unfortunate and to suffer, and he had no doubt that he would eagerly countenance such steps as would lead to the prevention of such scenes of violence and suffering as now took place. He could the less doubt of the conduct which America would pursue on this subject, from the pledge which the American Government had given. He had no doubt that that Government would shew itself as friendly as it ought to be to the rights of man, and that it would lend itself to laws for the abolition of the Slave Trade, by the passing a law for making the carrying it on felony, and punishing it as such. He thought the sincerity of the Spanish Government cote..l net be doubted after having agreed to the right of search. Mr. MONEY wished to correct a statement cortainad in a Morning Paper of that day, relative to what he said in the House on the night before. He was made to say—{Order, order!) The SPEAKER.—Does the Honourable Member mean to address tha House on the question before them? Mr. MONEY said, he wished to take that opportunity of pointing out a misreprzsentation. Mr. BANKES rose to order. The Honourable Member ought to know, that no stranger had a right to send forth the proceedings o f that House to the public. If the Honourable Member wished to accuse any person of a breach of privilege, be might do so. Mr. MONEY continued. With respect to the ques tion, he thought the money voted to Spain for the abolition of the Slave Trade was given for a most just and noble purpose—a purpose which reflected honour equally on the Govervment and the country. He was convinced such was the general feeling, that if a public subscription had been opened for the pur pose, the pence of the poor, added to the pounds of the rich, would have accumulated to double the sum voted by Parliament to Spain. While on his legs, he wished to make an observation or two on the sub ject of the Treaty with Portugal relative to the Slave Trade. By one Article of that Treaty, it was stipu lated it should not be carried on.uearer than five de grees south of the line ; whereas, by another Article, it was said that no capture was to hold good, unless the chase commenced north of the line. Thus, though no trade was to be carried on within five degrees south of the line, by the Treaty, yet it was impos 'Ale that it could be prevented from extending to the line itself. He thought the parts of the Treaty to which he alluded required some consideration. Dr. PHILLIMORE, in reply, stated, that with respect to the question immediately before the House, the Noble Lord had completely misunderstood him. The question was, whether the Spanish Claimants, who had obtained sentences of restitution in the Ad miralty Court of this country, should be placed by this Treaty on a different footing from that on which they would have been if this arrangement had not been entered into ? The present question did not turn on the right of the Spanish Crown over their Spanish subjects--here British subjects were also con cerned. He still maintained that the credit and cha racter of this country would be impeached, it the de cisions of its highest tribunals should be nullified. It had been said, that the remedy of the claimants was r not against the public, but against the captors ; but would it be just that the captors should be forced to indemnify the claimants? The good faith of the country was pledged to give, either the restitution of the thing itself, or the value in money. The Decrees were obtained long before the date of the Treaty.— .He found no fault with giving to the King of Spain 400,000/. but when the Treaty was entered into, the case of these persons who had obtained sentences of restitution, ought to have been taken into cortsi- deration. On the faith of the Decree, money could have been raised in ant town of Europe--(hear, hear.) The credit of a British Court of Admiralty ought not to have been made to depend on the conduct of a King of Spain. Hitherto the Decrees of the Court of Admiralty had been unimpeached throughout Europe. Now the credit of no Government in Europe was so low as that of the Spanish Government. The claimants had not the smallest chance of receiving any thing from that Government. It was rather un fair, too, to say that the claimants had been unmask ed, and shewn in their true colours. They had ob tained the sentences of several Courts in their favour, with costs and damages. The cases had been ap pealed from the Viceroyalty Courts to the Highest Court—and the claims stood, therefore, on the au thority of the highest Tribunal known to the Law of. Nations. It was too much, therefore, to say the claimants had been now unveiled—they ought to have been unveiled in Courts of Justice. He would seriously press on the Noble Lord the propriety of interfering so far with the Spanish Crown as to ob tain justice for those individuals, as we were, in fact, pledged that justice should be done to them. Mr. WILBERFORCE, in explanation, observed, that it was to the credit of the country that it had not left justice upon the abstract principle, but had with drawn the veil which covered these transactions ; for it was a very remarkable thing that no Spanish vessels we:•e engaged in the Slave Trade till after the abolition, and there could be no doubt that the pro perty in the vessels, nViniaally Spanish, were either British or American.—The Motion was negatived. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved for a Copy of the Circular Letter from the Tax-Office, of the Ist of December last, and an Ac count of the Number of Districts, and the names of the defaulters alluded to in that letter, so far as the same have been ascertained. Mr. C. W. WYNNE moved for a Copy of the Re port of the Commissioners appointed to unrol the manuscripts of Herculaneum. Sir SAMUEL ROMILLY presented a Petition which he said had been put into his hands by the Ho nourable Member for Winchelsea (Mr. Brougham), from Mr. O'Hanlan, a Magistrate of the County of Down, in Ireland, and which he understood differed in no essential respects from a Petition presented last year from the same Gentleman.—The Honourable ' Member also presented a Petition from John Meson,' complaining of the defective state of the laws re specting the recovery of debts. It stated, that the petitioner was the creditor for 1,0001. of a person who possessed a landed estate of 5,0001. a-year, and had obtained a judgment, but the debtor chose to live upon the produce of his estate in prison, and by re moving by Habeas Corpus from the jail to which he was originally rendered, to the King's Bench, and getting the Rules, went to the different watering places, and lived in almost all respects as before.-- Ordered to lie on the table and to be printed. SAVING RANKS. The Report of the Saving Banks Bill was brought up, and the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that it be taken into farther consideration the 13th of April next. General THORNTON complained of the extra vagance of the rate of interest. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the sum fixed was perhaps too high, and it might be lowered. But they ought to proceed with great caution. When the deduction for expenses was made, from the 4} per cent. the allowance received by the persons depositing was little more than four per cent. A lower rate th tit this would not be an inducement. The difference o.ight not to weigh with them, when they considered .he improvement in indnstry and mo rals which migla be purchased for this slight sacri fice. It would be repaid them not ten fold, but a hundred fold. The Report was then ordered to be taken into farther ccnsid:ration on the 13th of April next, and the Bill, as a vended, to be printed. The Committ e on the Coroner's Election Bill was postponed to to-morrow fortnight. The Fovr-whAlea Carriage Bill, and the Cork Importation Bill, were read asd time. Tobe committed to-morrow fortnight. CUSTOMS CONSOLIDATION BILL. The Report of the Customs Consolidation Bill was brought up. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated that it was intended in this Bill to consolidate all the vario is Duties imposed since 1809, which was the period when a consolidation last took place. The Duties would remain nearly as they were, with a few exceptions. There were a few general principles to which, on this occasion, he wished to call the atten tion of the House. With respect to the Irish Duties, which must soon undergo a revision, it was intended they should remain for the present unchanged. No alteration would take place in the Duty on Timber. With respect to ad valorem Duties, at present a Duty of 30 per cent. was laid on unmanufactured goods, and a Duty of 70 per cent. on manufactured goods. The Duty on the manufactured goods was to be re duced to 50 per cent. and the Duty on the unmanu factured goods was to be reduced irom 30 to '2O per cent. It would perhaps be advisable, that the varied Duties on Sugar should be reduced to one fixed rate ; but this would be a subject for consideration in an ad vanced state. The duties on goods carried coastwise would continue in their present state, except the duties on Stone and Slates, which would be rendered more simple. The duties or. Tonnage would not be altered. The present duties on East-India goods would be as similated to the duties on light articles imported from other parts of the British dominions. The thrown silk would be imported from India in the same man ner as from ports of Europe. He congratulated the House on the great growth of the trade to India since the free intercourse with that country. The private trade exceeded not only what the evidence at the bar gave reason to expect, but the most sanguine hopes of the adventurers—(hear, hear.) It would be proper to give every fair encouragement to this trade which might be consistent with justice to our own manufacturers. Mr, Alderman ATKINS thought it was impolitic, that the same duty should be laid on Sugar of dif ferent qualities. He suggested that the expenses which attended the bonding of goods should be lessened, by which means, he was convinced, we might again become the great carriers of Europe. Mr. FORBES concurred with the Chancellor of the Exchequer as to the great increase of the trade to India in British manufactured goods, especially cotton. But he remarked, that in India, at if to check this trade, duties tad been hid upon British manufactured atom, i t hi exist before. After a few words from Messrs. Berrzawes n , and the Caranenzna of the Ezuhruca, the Rep ort to, and the Bill ordered to be brought ice. Mr. G I LBERT brought up a Report of the pi mittee, which was ordered to be printed. Lord LASCELLE6 wished to call the attention , Hon. Gentleman below him to the hardships nift riduals from the manner hi which shops were assLts any allowance for the difference of the size of ti k e He had presented Petitions from the Shopkeepers Halifax some time since on that subject, and me, fore the recess, that it might occupy the mitt, of I Ministers during that period. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ' Noble Lord must be aware how difficult it was to tinction in such cases. Mr. TIERNEY asked, whither the Risht Ree was prepared with any measure in allivistiin suffered? After a few words from the Csaiscesaoa cf Lord LASCEI.LFS stated, that after tl.t. 1...1 1 e ; move that the Petitions to which kr kad to a Committee. The parties aggrieved ccoltt from appeals, for in that case the Commissi• 7.ers the Act, which inflicted the injury, and in vihd some alteration was necessary. The Report on the Auction Duty Act. vat brc agreed to.—Adjourned. EAST INDIA HOUSE. Yesterday a Quarterly General Court v the East India House. The CHAIRMAN stated, that in conformi' 4th chapter of the Ist section of the Ire I dry papers laid before Parliament were ted to this Court; amongst these wem dons of the Governor-General of India, ra year 1814, and of the Governor and Len: dras, made in the year 1815. The SHAIRMAN called the attention o f to copies of advances received from Cle Go Council of Fort St. George, relative to Mr. William Cooke. The despatches were read, and contai n port of the Committee of Inquiry appoir.l mine into certain accusations made William Cooke, as to his conduct wit l. Mr. Sherson, who had been charged wit proceeding while officiating in the (Grain I The Report went to acquit Mr. Cooke a nality in the course he had adopted with Mr. Sherson. Mr. KINNAIRD inquired whether it w to appoint a time for the consideration of t The CHAIRMAN answered, that the doe now before the Court, and it remained u men before the Bar to take whatever ( thought necessary. counat RARRI!. Mr. D. KINNAIRD inquired whether Lieutenant-Colonel Harris, which had bee Court of Directors for nine months, althou have been decided in as many days, brought to a conclusion? It was a case of ship, and whatever their decision might bo feel himself, bound at a future period to ; pers on this subject, for the purpose of n Motion to the Court on the conduct of t mcnt of I3ombay. Mr. HumE strongly censored the dcla: which was apparent in this and other case with their military establishment. . The CHAIRMAN and Mr. GP.ANT state utmost attention was paid to this case. of a very complicated nature, and the which it was necessary to refer tc were miuous. This it was which caused the COMPANY'S TRADE. Mr. Ht re. gave notice that he would. day, bring under the consideration of th commercial transactions of the Company do so because, after every inquiry he cou found that their commerce to Bengal, 5 Bombay, with the exception of a few a carrying on at a very great loss. He d into a statement, to chew that the salaries different Presidencies varied from ten to per cent. on the whok investment ; and that, under these circumstances, it w.ts that the Company could compete with Trader—(Hear.) The CstAismia stated, that when the s to be considered, he would prove that t] their trade, compawd with that of indiv creditable to the Gentlemen behind the B fitable to the Company.—thear, hear.) MR. HUDDLE.TTON. Mr. Hums, seein* an Honourable b (Mr.Huddleston) in his place, felt it %Nei tant as he was to bring individnals beforc to call for explanation on a subject that cerned the honour of the Court of Direct( known to many within and without the charge of a most serious nature had hern r that Gentleman in a late publicatii,a. r.: charge had been noticed in one of the Mr. HuNtE was here called to order MAN; and after some discussion, hissll;ri Colonel ALLEN, and the DEPUTY CHM itml Mr. HUDDLESTON rose, and declared C: as a Gentleman, that the charges made J in the work alluded to were most unjust, and most unfounded. This he pledged prove, and if necessary he would verity tl on oath. Although, from the distance which the events took place that were being not less than thirty-four years sinct necessarily have to encounter some dither ing his statement, he declared, that if t tors should return him at the ensuing E: that they should afterwards deem his exp satisfactory, he would that moment reiig Mr. Hum E conceived that a week 0: ten be sufficient for the Honourable Ex-Dno up his statement, which ought to be subs Proprietors before the Election. Mr. GRANT conceived it was most on a Gentleman to answer, in the coau days, charges which related to inatteri place thirty-four years ago. There y.-,s to support those charges, and they were direct denial of the Honourable nial backed by a life of unsullied hon. these circumstances, he hoped t!-.L. HerJ Director would appear before the Proprc honourable light to which his services enl Some further observations were made 1-1 Mr: D. KINNAIRD, and the DEPVI Y Cunt which the Court adjourned zinc