Star. — London, England, 1819-06-09 00:00:00

I Ii • :, • • ~` i~~ ; f iramomigiw fr • burgh, where was noir sivived, but on being in formed of it, tte tight Honourable Gentleman op posite (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had inquired illto the subject, and removed the grievance. He now wished to know, whether any Treasury direc tions had been issued to make that regular which had formerly been admitted to be an irregularity? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER re plied, that the early receipt of the Taxes was of great advantage to the Revenue. Mr. BROUGHAM acknowledged that it'might be an advantage to the Revenue, but it was one to which the Country was not entitled. It also enabled Collectors of Taxes to keep large balances for a con siderable time in their hands, from which they might derive undue profits. FINANCK REPORT. The CHANCELLOIt of the EXCHEQUER moved the Order of the Day for bringing up the Re port of the Finance Committee.—Agreed to. Mr. BROGDEN then brought up the Report. On the question, that it be agreed to? Mr CURWEN ? strongly objected to the measures proposed by his Majesty s , Ministers. He contended, that since the peace the income -of the country had been reduced one-fourth—from four hundred to three hundred millions sterling. The weight of taxa tion upon this diminished income was, therefore, equal to what it had been upon the ‘vhole when the Property Tax and the Malt Duty were in existence. Wavxhis a time to,lay fresh imposts upon the people? S me of the new Taxes proposed•were most impoli t c, cruel, andcppressive—particularly the additional duty upon Malt, which would affect all the lower claues, and increa,se their unfortunate propensity.ta drink spirits.. The Tax upon loreign Wool might grati£NAgriculturists; .but, if adopted, it would de stroy wig of the. most important branches of our Ma ntifitcturee. had. not been for the corrupt in- Ii itqape whit the Dlinisters.possessed, itp would have been iniposadxle .for them to obtain the majorities which had bitty supported their most obnoxious measures. He wished them at least to defer the exe cution of their plans .to the next Session, when the difficulties of the country might be diminished. In stead of opposing, he might then support them ; but at present, their Resolutions should have his hearty denial—(Hear, hear.) Sir HENRY PARNELL objected to the proposed application of the Sinking Fund, as constituting a breach of faith towards the Public Creditor. He de scribed a large portion of the expenditure incurred during the course of the war as totally unnecessary; and contended, that no retrenchment would have been carried into effect since the peace, if Parliament bad not violently wrenched the Property Tax from the hands of his Majesty's Ministers. He had no doubt, however, that more money might have been saved, had economy been sincerely and seriously at tended to during the last four years. Unless Minis ters consented to give up a large portion of the pa tronage which they now enjoyed, it would be vain to expect any further retrenchments. He urged the necessity of improving the mode of Collecting the Public Revenue, in which a considerable saving might be effected: fewer Clerks might be employed to make up the public accounts, without any detri ment to the.service of the country. There were sixty four Conunitsioners for the Collection of the. Rev enue: that number might certainly be reduced. In the Superintendence of the National Expenditure. as well as in the Collection of the Revenue, much sav ing could also tate place. He then pointed out se veral other practicable reductions ; and stated, that as he understood an Ilonourable Friend of his inten ded to.propose an Amendment to the bringing up of, the Report ; he should leave the subject in his hands, as better fitted for the task. _ Mr—PETER MOORE, as a Representative of the People, could not consent to vote any addition to their burthens. He complained of the manner in which the Ministers.had hitherto employed the Sink ing Fund. It bad been instituted for the purpose of decreasing Taxation, by keeping the Funds low; but they bad Used it to create an unnatural rise, which had operated against the reduction of the National Debt. Ile concluded by pledging himself to his Constituents and the Country at large not to agree to any of the present Taxes. Mr. HUME.doubted much whether the surplus so much spoke* of really amounted to two millions; he apprehended it would be found to fall 1.:500,000 short of that amount. The country had certainly to thank Ministers even for this tardy avowal of the condition of its finances ; but if taxes were to be accumulated upon tares in the way now proposOtt, it would have little to thank them for on the score of economy ; it ought not to be forgotten, too, that the new imposts almost •exclusively pressed upon the lower orders of the community—(llear, hear.)—Ra ther than vote for them, he would willingly have consented to a property-tax, by which the rich pro prietors of the country would be compelled to contri bute their fair proportion—(llear, hear.) —It bad been objected that no particular branch of expendi ture had been shewn to be exorbitant, but he insisted, that they were all too enormous ; and if Ministers had been sincere in their proffered resolution, they would have done more and promiseii less : promises would not relieve the starving manufacturers of Car lisle or Coventry. If Ministers wanted information where to begin their retrenchments, he would refer them only to the Finance Report of 1817, where the Committee recommend that steps should be taken to enable our newly-acquired colonies to support their own expenditure. Had Government made any such attempt ? Unquestionably rot ; and in the Colonial Estimates no less than 1 267,000 was voted in one mass to General Broweriyg for Ceylon, and in ano ther £15,090 to Governor Farquhar, at die Manzi tiuS. In the whole nearly a million was disposed of without the slightest attempt at specification. The same remark would apply to the lonian Islands, and if Ministers had been so anxious to stick to the letter of tite 'Treaty with Seaia, why had they not stuck twitbe letter of the Treaty regarding the lonian ,The immense Civil List ought instantly to be diminished ; it ought to be reduced from one mil lion two hundred thousand to nine hundred thousand and if sacrifices were required from the peo -ght first to be made by the Prince (Hear, :ligher the station, the more bound was tilling it to set an example to the rest of Instead of that, lie (Mr. Hume) saw a mania prevalent titat cost the nation incal ulable sums ; bands trapped in' scatlet and got were daily paraded about the streets, as if to mock the squalid pricrty of the lower orders—(Laughter lion)! Me Ministerial benches.) Ministers might laligh, but let them look at the other side of the picture; let them survey the misery of the poor laborious in:, dustrious wretches at Carlisle, or even of the unhappy beings they meet in our streets, and he believed that there would be found but one man among them who would still keep a smile upon l:is countenance, and that would be a smile of self-congratulation from a Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Canning), that by habitually turning into ridicule the sufferings of his fellow.creatures, he had been able to place him self so tar above their unhappy condition—( Continued cheers.)—Gold lace and gorgeous trappings added nothing to the British character, economy was what was nee,ied—strict undeviating economy ; and in stead of it, waste and expenditure ran riot in all de partments. Look at the office of Commander in Chief; would any man believe that we were paying 16 guineas a-day to an individual for filling an office that was wholly useless ? If the necessary papers were produced, it would appear that the income of that Royal Duke was scarcely less than £lOO,OOO per annum. The expenses of the Mint and of the woods and forests ought also to be reduced ; the latter was not of the slightest use, and he ,"(Mr. Hume) hoped to live to see the day when even the pretence of necessity was taken away, by the sale of all the crown lands, which cost the nation far more than they were worth—(Hear.) —When Minis ters talked of economy, why did they not begin them selves by making sacrifices—why was the example of the Noble Marquis (Camden) still solitary ?—(l./ear.) —ln the Staff of the Army only, £50,000 might be saved; in the Ordnance Department, £90,000; and in the Army Extraordinaries, no less than A:150,000, without the slightest danger to the great interests of the State. The Navy he did propose to diminish, though it cost £6,000,000 for only 20,000 men; because the greater part was expended upon place and pa tronage. One great source of charge to the nation was the mode in which Stamps were distributed. In all cases, much more was paid to the distributors than they merited. In Aberdeen„ to take that as a l specimen, the distributor was paid £1,400, to do that which hundreds of others would gladly undertake for £5OO. In truth, the profit upon Stamps was ten per cent. so that no salary at all ought to be allowed. He perfectly agreed in the propriety of applying five millions, or even eight millions, to the Sinking k und;, but he was much averse to the imposition of three millions of Taxes, in the present distressed state of the country. Ministers might talk about being eco nornical—they might boast of their saving disposi tion; but unless they were sincere in their profes- sions, what hope was there of ever seeing a termina tion to our distresses? For the reasons he had stated, if no other Honourable Member proposed an Amend ment to the last Resolution, he should think proper himself to divide the House upon it. Mr. PRIMROSE said, that however anxious he might be for retrenchment in every quarter, yet he was not prepared to go the lengths which some Ho nourable Members had gone, of rejecting the mea sure proposed altogether. Whatever economical ar rangements were made, they ought to be upon such a principle as would go hand in hand with the pro position of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The sum of five millions had been proposed as a Sinking Lund; and he confessed that he was anxious that a larger sum even should be applied for that purpose. The only true Sinking Fund would be formed when the income exceeded the expenditure. He thought no man would maintain, that with a debt of no less than £800,000,000, the sum of £5,000,000 was too much to be devoted to its reduction. With respect to the Taxes themselves, he objected to one or two items, and particularly the Tax upon Malt; and he thought that a Tax might be imposed upon the im portation of Foreign Coin, from whence'the Agricul tural Interest might derive great advantages. This might, perhaps, be said to be favouring too much the Landed Proprietor; but he always had considered that the interests of the Fundholder and the Land holder were so intimately connected, that in support ing the one, the other was sure to be benefited. Mr. D. W. HARVEY strongly objected to the lima position of these new taxes upon a people already too much oppressed. Petitions out of number had been presented from the rabble, as they had been termed, complaining of the most unprecedented distresses, and the imposition of new burdens was the answer to their complaints. We have read your Petitions," says the Minister, we hear your grievances, and as a remedy we will make you pay additional taxes. It is all out of pure kindness we do it, and depend upon it, it is for your own good." , Was this proper lan guage to be used to men who applied for relief to the only source from whence they could hope to ob tain it ? All this, too, was to be done without one single effort for inquiry, and the taxes were to be forced down the people's throats at the point of the bayonet. Among the expenses to the nation which might be curtailed (for to enumerate them all would indeed tire the patience of the I louse) was that most extravagant one, the Prosecutions of Informations in. the Exchequer by the Crown. No fewer than five Lawyers, at the head of whom was the Attorney- General, were constantly employed to conduct a pro. secution for the recovery of 020 penalty ; and judg ing from the Return which had been made to the House, the annual expense of these prosecutions to the Government might be calculated at no less a sum than £24,000. To this evil he would undertake to apply a remedy, by which £24,000 might be saved ; and if every Honourable Member would pledge him self to do the same, the deficiency in the Revenue would be soon made up—(n lough). Mr. Alderman W AITH MA N, after some remarks on the delusion which had been practised on the country, under the name of the Sinking Fund, said, i that the question now s as, not whether it was de • 'habit thatthe Sinking Fund should be raised to five millions, but whether the country could bear new taxes? During the war, when new taxes had been bud on, the increased issue of paper had raised all prices, and made their real amount less. Now all property had been depreciated thirty per cent. in comes had fallen in the sarr,e propel-tip% every thing had found its level but taxation—(l - fear). The Chan cellor of the Exchequer had ;014 them, the the tax which he now laid on M a lt wou ld ,ap_rhe re st, be cause an unnecessarily hi g h price was r.9W demanded for beer by the brews -Is, who, by this new tax, wOuhf "onl be compelled to give up aOR of their unjust' profits. lint, if this was the case, he should rather have instituted an inquiry into the frauds of ibebrew7 ett, than have endeavoured to paiticipate in their/ hxtortions; hut all sedlnticaiirto the Chantellor of , 1 the Exchequer, and he w* reWitei share in the pro- , fits either of a lottery or an oVixrcbirge—(fieef•osed .: a laugh). They were now ; aboutle tieprive of their beer the wretched labourers, wbon many or the agri cultural parts of the country, co uld scarcely get a bit of bacon to flavour their beeicl!..--( Lauglier.)— Honourable Gentlemen might laugh, but he could see no cause for laughter: Ile had formerly em ployed some of these distressed . people, but lie now saw them starving for want of work I Was this a subject for Honourable Gentlemen to laugh at e— ( Near, Hear, I lear ! )—As to the tax on Wool, a Petition had been put into the hands of one of his colleagues, from some of the largest manufactu rers in the kingdom, the clothiers of Leeds, who stated that nine millions worth of cloth was now ex ported, not half of which was paid for the imported Wool, so that four millions and a half were paid by foreign countries for the labour of our starving ma nufacturers, who in their present state of distress and depression were to be deprived, as far as taxes would do it, of this source of employment. The consequence of the taxes would be either that other countries would enter into competition With our manufacturers, or, that our own manufacturers would Hy to some more favourable place. - Nor could they he blamed for this when the higher classeS were king from the .taxes which they had themselves laidon ;--aye. those who imposed the taxes, those who lived by the taxes, those who now were laying new burthens on an op pressed, distressed, starving population, were flying from their share of the weight of them—(llear,hear). This was the real grievance to the country, which he and others looked to with earnestness, who were_ in different to the question, whether the Gentlemen op: posite or the fjentlemen near him bad to carry on the business of the Administration. This seemed to be made the whole question by a Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Canning), but he had no doubt but that if the earth were to open and swallow the whole House, the Prince Regent would be at no loss for good Ministers—(.4 laugh). The Right Honourable Gentleman had complained that one Gentleman was too general when he simply called for retrenchment; that another was wretchedly minute when he ex claim g againstwou l d h pl t ea e two sehLords him. .of th e c: f t it he ig l Ad lt i ni , l o i r l al ou t y. r. able Gentleman s speeches, however, he should only say, in the language of the Poet— " We laugh, indeed, but on resection's birth, We hate our elves and curse our mirth !" He (Mr. Waithman) should move, if no other Ho nourable Member would do it, for a Committee, composed neither of placemen nor pensioners, to in quire whether it was possible by retrenchment to', avoid laying taxes on the people. Sent there as he was, freely and without expense, by the metropolis of, the British empire, he entered, in the name of hk Constituents, his protest, and declared his abhorrence of this attempt to lay new burthens on the people— (Hear, hear). Nor should he vote sixpence till it was made manifest that the country had no resource in economy—(icar, hear). The Clerk then, by direction of the SPEAK ER, pro ceeded to read the Resolutions. The first was agreed to. On the second, which sets forth the charge created by the consolidation of the Exchequers of England and Ireland s Sir JOHN NEWPORT rose to move an Arne4l ment. He said that Ireland had beer rated proportion much greater than ought to fall to her share. A people who had shed their best blood in the late contest did not deserve to be treated in this manner : and to add to the severity of taxation, a shocking system of Government had always been kept up there, by dividing and fomenting discord among the people, who, after being placed in a state of hatred against each other, therr became the com mon victims of th , . Government, so that a great inili tary force, which otherwise would never Have been wanted, became necessary to keep them in a state of tranquillity. As the Resolution then before the I louse, •did not state sufficiently the sacrifices made by Ire land, as it did not tell the whole truth, he should move to add an additional Resolution, by way of amendment, setting forth, that since the Union, Ire land had contributed above sixty millions to the ser vices of the Empire; and pointing out the contrast between this great sum, and the sums paid before the Union. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER op posed the Amendment, as foreign from the subject then under the consideration of the House. Sir JOHN NEWPORT said his wish was to have the statement recorded on the Journals of the House. The Amendment was negatived. On the Resolution respecting the Sinking Fund being put, Sir MATHEW RIDLEY declared, that his opi-1 nion of the present Ministry was such, that he did not think they should be entrusted with the management of the Finances of the country whose confidence they had so completely, forfeited. They were now impo sing most heavy burthens on a country already over loaded by taxes, and labouring under every kind of distress. The agriculturists were unable to get prices adequate to their labour, the manufacturers could not get a sale for their goods, and yet a mass of new taxes was to be laid upon the people. The tax on beer would distress the poor; the tax on tobacco would not be productive, because the quantity of to bacco now grown in America was lees than it had been for many years. The whole of these taxes were directly levelled at the poor man; for after every thing he could drink was to be taxed, lie could not then enjoy his quid of tobacco without paying an ad ditional tax for that also. He believed the Restric tion of Cash.payments would have suc h an e ff ect on . the prices of all articles, that the people could not pay this additional load of taxation. As to the Sink ing Fund: he believed the time would come when the people would not be so sanguine as they hitherto had been respecting the utility of such fund. lie .coacipciad with moving, as an amendment, a Reso lution declaring, that until every practicable means of retrenchment were resorted to, it wa3 not fit to add to the burdens of the country in its present dis tressed ,st:lte by the imposition Of new taxes. The CHANCELLOR a the EXCIIEQUF.II op posed the Amendment, as calling oa the Rouse to reject a proposition to which it had alteady acceded. If an eirective System of tAtation was to be adopt ~j; it could only be done by articles of general cwi ,sdmpti?lL - - LOrd MILTON did not thinklhat the Chancellvi off' thattegmeatiExchegiierat take o l i t il ev d enlibuithe. Ile eff wp i ar t os t dnu h n : w s e t ::b afc ' iecneit motley, an h cl y th wa ro y wi of ni; T it a i x n e t s o , th l e t E nf ac t h i' e e quer with a vi e; , p a of creating a Sinking Fund ; but there it would tr,, t be near so productive as if left in the pockets of th 4:. people. He had been informed that a son of extra Parliament was to have been held on the preceding day at the house of the Minister, to take this subject into consideration. Was such a Parliament as this held ?—(Anszee, • front Me Mini,teria! Be nc h es -4 i i t was not"—A kugli).—The Noble Lord concluding by proposing a Resolution, having retrerithmern a n d economy for its object. Mr. PRIMROSE considered it nhsoltecli , sary to raise additional Lutes, in order to i..nle country to return to Cash Payments, witfitait . 1 1 it could never be in a prospetoits state. But he dis approved of the mode of rai , in7, these Taxes, and tlimight the 'Ministers highly eulpeile, for haiin been constantly depending and living en expedients. Mr. J. P. GRANT thought it would be the grog:. est misfortune to the country to impose a burden the , would take so large a sum out of the pockets of People ; and he thought it most unjust and impoli:. • to raise Taxes for the porpese of raising a Sinkik Fund. Gentlemen on the other side had talked ia the necessity-of preserving faith with the Public Cre ditors ; but was it preserving such faith to reduce the .Sinking Fund from fifteen to five millions and the greater part of these five millions were to he raiTd by new taxes ! and that, too, at a thrfe whew no ma n carrying on trade or commerce knew whether he was sate for a moment in any of his transactions ; when goods imported (ram abroad did not in this nutty fetch the price paid fur them abroad ; when no ade: quote prices could be got for agricultural produce: and when the labourers were fed, not on then wage s , bin by the poor-rates. As to a Sinking Fund, it was absurd to say that it could produce any adyantage ; because it was withdrawing out of the pockets of the People that wealth which they could render prodat- ' tive, while in the hands of Government it would rct create additional wealth. In the time of Sir Robert Walpole, there was a Sinking Fond of a million and a half, which excited the greatest discontent among monied men, who declared, that in consequence of it the prices of Stock were so high that they sould get any interest for their money. Tic late Mr. fog, in the latter part of his life, had altered his opinion as to the value of the Sinking Fund ; and it was now well understood, that in times like the present such a fund would do more injury than Mr. CALLAGHAN supportect Po l d e original Dic tion, and contended that there would be nn addi tional charge to the consumer in consequence of the additional taxes to be imposed, on certain articles, the dutieabeing ad valorem. (Laughter and couzhivg.) The Honourable Member was almost inaudible in the gallery during the remainder of his speech, in consequence of the impatience for the question. He wished that there should be a tax upon Foreign Corn, as well as upon Foreign Wool, or Foreign Silk, or Foreign any thing the. Mr. 111ANKLAND LEWIS said, that this was a difficult question to settle, but in his opinion it would have been better that the affairs of the Bank should be first entered upon before the' general financial ar rangement of the country came under considesation. He th n adverted to the proposition relative to the Sinking Fund, and argued, that the circumstances its which the country was left by the war, rendered noon application in the proposed manner-necessary. This fund., he thought, was not to be intrusted to the ab solute controul of any individual whatever, and it was a folly to say that it NM always applied to the reduction of the debt, when it was well known that it was converted to other purposes, and went to de fray the expenses of the Government, incurred by the late war. He conscientiously believed that it would be highly unjust to raise any tax on Malt and Spirits. lie would propose that this part of the pro- . position should be abandoned, and that the taxes in tended to be raised should not exceed £2,000,000. iEr. ABERCROMBIE rose; amidst loud cries of " Question !" and said it was with the utmost diffi dence he claimed the attention of the House. He would, in spite of all the imputations of cowardici , and sherking which had been thrown out against his side of the House, state his opinions fairly and can didly. The question at issue then was, whether or not the present was the Session to receive the ReK%- lutions of the Right Honourable Gentleman? Two important propositions had been disclosed, the result of those exertions which had been std much animad verted upon: the first was, that our Currency was is a most tint'avourable situation; the other, that there remained but two millions available to the public service of a Sinking Fund. No doubt, the reforma tion of our Circulation was an object of fundamental importance. The effect of the measures to bring abcu: this reform would prove avowedly very oppressive. Under these circumstances, it was not dealing with the people to lay an additional bestsien upon them ; and the alarm and despondency which mar taxes will create, must necessarily add' to the actual. embarrassments which the taxes will produce. The question was, should we have a Sinking Fund' of two millions or five millions. For his part, he did not think the decisitin of such importance as to'require degree of expedition that would he inconsistent wen a proper consideration of the condition of the peoptc. However, he should say, that if the country was ia a capacity to bear taxes, he would he better pleased with a Sinking Fund of five millions than two million. , Mr. H. SUMNER agreed in the opinion that tam were absolutely necessary for the eventual prosperity of the country. So far from thinking that they ought not to be raised at the propoSed amount, he was dis= appointed.at the lownes> of them. He complainee of the contempt with which the agricultaral panicles presented at different times, had been received by Gentlemen on both sides of the House. Ile sat dawn. after expre s sing hi; entire approbation of the prope sitions--(Hear. isearl Mr. :‘IAtI)()NALD observed, that t!le . short state of the question %Vat's this, whet!:er c.: :Not the preseta. was the projer Session for layiag IZ/Ore Taxes npoit the people. _Upon this the House was to L lec . aies simply, in s‘t.aleter minter the question migiat 'Li' couvw the Jrbate. 1 .,0.24y to, .1A ' I pounds; and pie, they oul J h eat4--The the person ti the country. tnititat y MAI