Star. — London, England, 1815-03-14 00:00:00

'6l4r asi Tti• l i o n then b ef o re o s o whether the Roue 1 ail before it sufficient information on which they cou ld be justified in bringing forward and plitsing t h e law in question ? 1f this rneasnra was merely ca lculated to relieve only one class, at the expense of aare!ier, he would not support it. But he supported it because it was his firm conviction that it was cal. cu hted to promote the interests of all clasies in the crtt nunite, and because it would tend essentially cal so benefit the poor of the country. This slues. tiLhi had now for three years occupied the attention ut . parliament, and in the last Session an extensive c4ti i r y was entered on it; but Parliament did not It.cus ee the necessity of legislation. The. Committee g on ly collected a large body of information, but 0 ... 11 encouraged information as far as it could be Now he saw no necessity for delay, nor • . 0 1.1.1 the clamour out of doors have the least infl hi s decision : his objection to delay was, ihat :iess relating to agriculture would be at a 0 r..., neither land nor labour would get oil its tutu. rat too ting until it was decided whether Parliament Aould legislate or not on this question ; farms could rot be let, leases could not be renewed; every thing va, at a stand, and the greatest mischief already art se out of the delay that bad hitherto taken place : one of the Noble Lord's arguments had convin tr.i him. He could not see the necessity for any far tl.or evidence, because there was one fact which no eridence could contradict, and that was, that SOs. wzs a proper protecting price; but he did not believe t e a SOs. would be nminimurn iodic, because the cr .rou: igemer.t afforded to our agriculture would pi...luce plenty, and that would make the corn fall 1, Am than 80s. There was one piece of evidence sere important than every thing else, and that was report of the French Government, and the law F .,sed in France as founded on that report. There sas a material consideration with respect to the effect this measure ; it would be impossible to know wheat the effect would be unless the averages were Lit as they were. l'his question had nothing to do with regulating the assize of bread, although it tuilli be a most wise thing to pass g law on that tfoject, because, by a.proper regulation, the people of London might get their bread much cheaper than at present. As to Petitions against the Bill, he was disposed to pay the utmost attention to them ; but there was such a difference of opinion, that if due enquiry were made, it would be found that more persons throughout the whole kingdom were favour. able than hostile teihe Bill ; and therefore the inte. men of the whole must be consulted, and regulated on a fair balance. And it was on.this principle, he contended, that no delay should any longer take ' flue on this great measure. Their Loidships then divided— Contents, IS—Non-Contents, 81—Proxies, 124. Majority against the Motion, 187. /I.djourned at TWO o'a,ocK this marring. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. Was. Dirmeas promoted a Petition from the Writers to tt Signet in Scotland, against the Scotch Trial by Jury Ordered to lie on the table: :it. W. ZIT LIAM? presented a Petition from certain landholders : Wilshire, in favour of the Corn Bill.—Ordered to lie on the Mr. Aantrrnliwr ,presented a copy of a .Petition from the Irglirh Protestants at Ruttodaea, praying pecuniary assistance, enable them to repair their church in that place—Ordered to . ou the table The CoMillfteb Girdle Pauper Lunatic BM was postptined to :lay. The Committee on the Poor Returns Bill was postpon. to-morrow , as was the Committee on the Salaries of the xni assionen a t the Jury Courts to Scotland. Sir M. W. litIDLEY gave notice that on Tuesday the 21st heat he vieuh' move for leave to bring in a Bill is amend the Lai of the Kung, for repelling the highways add footways. :dr. GORDON moved, that his notice of a :notion on the soh of the Order of the Bath, which stood for to-morrow, ahould it snuck ow, Which was accordingly done. Mr. BA.biliES wished, as a great change, wl:h respect to the. au (Mice, was in contemplation, to have produced accounts of the txpencesineurred by rpublie building now In progress, and L one lattly C.nished. He moved for " returns of all the expenses. ltherto locarrsd, and paid, in purchasing the scite of the new tastom I and In erecting the building as far as the work ca, stivariccil, with estimates of the sums necessary to finish it, s ,;ei lot with the original estimates of the total expense—He 0 movtil for papers to 'hew the total expense incurred no r,oun't arise building the new Mint." 111 ,HiNGTON took occasion to say, that the expense if Cotton House was not exits:eel d to exceed the Original estlei, and it was supposed in nine or ten mouths the budding' Nall be completed. the eu c erb war •rdeeeld t 4 beprpduced. lir C. MONK gave make that he would to-morrow se'nniglat rtrte for the production of Papers relative to the new modelling wile Unit r of the Bath. 0i IN NEWPORT postpined his motion respecting the krbentes 0 Ireland which stood for to-morrow, till to-morrow CONDUCT OF Tn. POLIC& On the motion of the CitaNcif.ton of the Excus. Ctl l 9 the Minutes oi the examinations of the Magis -1'....es at the .fiar of the Douse, sn the preceding i'' , . l iday, were taken in - p. consideration. The CH L ANCELLOR: of the 44CHEQUtli t h e li bi t . ct o f t h e R e am in taking . these Mi -I:4tes into their coUsideration t mot be to secure on Part of The P o li ce a vigoreue discharge or their etr.y. He believed, since lest Monday, every periOn t- , 1 satisfied with their conduct. PAiliament had t"ni held - their sittings ill greater security--bad vver beed less in d anger o f . i nterruptkis. With re: 1 ; , ---t to what had taken ptace on the day he had . 44144 be ditigtht it unnecessary to bay any thing It tipi3eatd. that every, plec:liiticin had previ. " been'tdOn (which common prudence could die: lie regretted that it had beeri fo'und neCeisary to tail out ;` kit die propriety •oi • doing . l th'lotnder the eircumitantes of the ease, he belzre t ili "14441 not be questioned'; and he thought it seen that hardly any blitnio attached .t 0 the'o l, 4 rower, it for once it had not ;Wei alsTia tto preset* ie pAce, mid Afford lull protection. Ifon•thW sub-' I'7 t!rtte w..s difihrence•of• he'truitett liftsive 'at übliti hint .the dondutt s,f thelblice tittee 4 .fy hmel- atinield foe theirAiirsi errors. • Cotteeiv.. it v..0u41- he 'best not to reviv: the uniortutuitte hulls tiilbt, anti Aid there wrotild" be ho o benon to pass over what had occurred, he moved,. . 'x 1 4t th e O r d er o f t h e D ay f or ta ki ng • t h e Mi nut es of 4 tidence into consideration should be discharged. ,I.lr. WHITBREAD Was astonished why the' tight Honourable Gentleman should wish to' dis- Tge the Motion. The Sedritary of Stae, seeing ' Cl4l tumults were likely to•talre place, had otdered Le Nigh Bailiff to attend with his Constables. He ( I lr. Whitbread) was sorry to'be obliged to atiimad... on Coe con - duet of the High ; but he coo ctite.t he was obliged to do sa in thedischarge . ot duty. The High Bailiff had brought dii,vit with nit) eight y conitibles ;" but ballad "taken no inetssUrei tor plating them in 'serfs sitinitiege is would render their presence effectual. 90 . thoxight these maw tides had come down the taint& were at theirteight, so much so, that some Menitieisi in their way to the House, bad been nearly rode over. „Under these cir cumstances, he could not comply with the motion of the Right Honourable Gentleman. He thought some censure, however slight, should be passed on the Ma gistrates; in order to shew that we did not approve of their conduct ; he defied any Min to approve of their conduct, and if they did not approve. they could not consistently discharge the present Order. He should therefore oppose the motion. Mr. BATHURST did not conceive the conduct of the Magistrates deserts.:d censure. Mr. Morris had breqght down his constables and stationed them around the House to preserve order. In this they succeeded ; but whilst they were employed here, a party of the rioters had gone to another place and. created disturbances. He could not therefore blame the Magistrates for what occurred in another place ; it is injustice to suppose that those placed near the House could afFord protection to Members in their passage to the House from the different parts in the City. If circumstances bad Tendered the interfe rence of the military necessary, it could not be im puted to any neglect of the cot:stages or the Magis trates who directed them. He supported the chi charge of the Older. Mr. W. WYNNE thought that if any instructions had been given to regulate the conduct of the Ma gistrates in future on such occasions, he would be willing to pass over the late transactions in silence; but he did not see their conduct in the same light. The constables were called on, and were found in. sufficient to preserve the peace ; he thought therefore some inquiry was necessary, in order to see who did not attend a those called on, and in order to sec why none of the rioters were taken, though it appear. d that 160 constables had attended. He did nut mean to attach any blame to the Secretary of State, who, he conceived, had discharged his duty ; but he con tended, that the best means to prevent a recurrence of such circumstances in future, was to make a strict inquiry into the cause of the late deficiency. Mr. BATHURST explained. Mr. DOUGLAS said the conduct of the Civil Magistrates should be sifted to the bottom, in order to ascertain by what neglect the inteiference of the military became necessary; if the House passed this over, they would be screening from reproof some who had deserved it. Mr. LOCKHART, after complimenting the Speaker on the wise ana dignified conduct which he had displayed on the late occasion, said, that the in dependence of the House and the peace of the City were concerned in the present question; on that ac count, he could not consent to its being buried in oblivion for the present. The Magistrates should be ; called on to give some account of their conduct, which to him did not appear to be the most praise. worthy. Though he was an enemy to pensions, yet he would be anxious to see same of those magistrates provided for in that way, and sent into that retire ment for which they seemed bust fitted. He did not think it right to see decrepit and infirm old men placed in situations which required all the vigilance And activity of healthful youth.—(hear, hear.) —As far as he was informed, there was a jealousy between 'the Bow-street Constables and those of Westminster, which hindered their acting in concert. This was a circumstance which might have very bad effects on a recurrence of similar tumults in future. He was the more anxious to oppose the discharging the 01 - der, in consecoence of the late verdict. of Julie-, which went to establish principles with which they had no concern whatever. Mr. H. ADDINGTON observed, that the main complaint against the Magistrates was, that of their not having been in their proper situations, nor made a proper disposition cf the force in their possession.— This disposition ought to have been made in the first instance. One Magistrate (Mr. Conant) was cer tainly in attendance on the hrst evening, but obliged to go to another part of the town on duty. If them 'bad been any error, it was an error in judgment.— But it was his duty to state, in justice to the Magi strates, that for any error they committed in point of judgment, in the first instance, they had made an ample reparation ; for ever since they had exerted the greatest degree of alacrity and zeal. Mr. WHITBREAD did not impeach the Magi strates altogether. Mr. BUTTERWORTH thought that the con stables, so far as fell within his own observation, had done their duty. Sir C. tvIONCK observed, that although there had been great riots throughout the Week, there was a certain pitch b4yOred iiirbich they did not proceed.— No house was botnto nor was any body put to death, or violence offered to any one's pers.m. No body was even apprehended as a leader in the riots. Mr. H. ADDINGTON replied, that there were at this Moe Ant SO persons in custody for rioting. Sir I. WitOrTESLEY observed; that the con duct of all the Magistrates was highly commendable, euepe that of one. The peat fault was a want of manakinient in the &Ist instance; he was confident that if the populace, in the first instance, had been prevented from collecting round the House of Par liainent, there Would have been no mub. The High Valid had said, that all the constables put together were - intufficknt to keep away_ the mob which had addeteti; and diet he relied on the exertions of Mr. Sink' and: MY.' titter : but it WAS his duty to have had a pie'rionv communication with them. He dimight ditty of the Magistrates to hive pl'e 'tinted sedlilans expressions from being written on the walls. These; from their appearance, met seem to hate befrii &De by common bands, or by the - comnibtt part of mob, and the writers should have been witched and taken tip. ADPINOTON—The very day after the first tint a proper method' was adopted, and proper directions given. Mr; Alderman ATKINS said, it often happened in case of riots that a sufficient force of constables could not be preCured ; this was the case at the time when he was Sheriff, during the time of the • dilttir &races in .Piccadilly, near the residence of an Ho nour:Olt &time, he and his brother 'Sheriff Were , never able' to collect ' a Ocitiit number of con: stables. The CHATItELLOr or the EICHEQUEN, said; it war-not nfriinitilided to prifitrhae an 'eulo glum on the conduit of the Magistratea ; the ;object of Ms isogon iorr was merely' to Yet it rest in silence. —The motion for discharging the Order was then agreed to. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER next moved to discharge the order for the attendance of the Magistrates, whici: was agreed to. Lord MILTON presented a Petition from Barns ley against the Corn Bill. TRADE TO SOUTH AHSRICA. The House having resolved itself into a Commit tee to consider of the South Se.t Company's Act, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER mitered into the nature and history of the South Sea Company, which had been established in 1720, under magnificent. prospects, which afterwards turned out to be almost entirely delusive. Great losses were of course sustained by all the persons who had era lurked in that speculation; yet the Company conti nued to exist, and to carry on a trade to South Ame rica and the South Seas, at a small profit. The Com pany divided three and a half per cent. and their ca pital was about At 3,500,000. As it was now desir able to take the monopoly of the trade out of the hands of the Company, a moderate compensation must be made for the less they Should sustain. Tor thib purpose, he should propose to raise a fund, out of which a dividend should be paid to the present proprietors equal to their loss. .This would not bring any charge upon the public, as it was intended to be wised out of a small tonnage duty, and a duty of 2 per cent. on the export of goods to the South Sea.— fie then concluded with moving a Resolution, , s that ilto exclusive right of trade vested in the South Sea Company, in virtue of the Act of Queen Anne, do cease and determine." Mr. BENNEI'T wished I to ask the Minister if there had been any interference on the part of the Bri tish Government, to put a step to the calamities of intestine war which desolated the extensive provinces ot South America? He had authority to state, that in those unhappy countries within the last three or four years no less than one million of human beings were put to the sword. One particular province, which was about 400 miles in ex.ent, had been con verted into a d sert ; the towns and villages were de serted and destroyed, and such of the inhabitants as escaped fled to the woods for safety. Some idea might be formed of this horrible war when the Com mittee was informed, that on the surrender of the city of Valencia by treaty, all the chiefs of the in.l surf ents were treacherously put to the sword. He wished to ask the Ministers if any mediation had been proposed on the part of the British Government in 1812, between the Colonies and Old Spain ? He understood, that since the return of Ferdinand, a. Councillor of State, who had been instrumental in betraying his country to France, was sent our to South America, and made a great part of the country a scene of blood and devastation. He was told an expedition had just sailed from Cadiz to South America ; but he prayed to GOD that it might fail, and that it might perish on the coast of the new world. The- question which the British Ministers ought to consider was, whether they should take a part with nine millions of slaves who composed the population of Old Spain, or with 18 millions of free men, and men desiring to be free, who inhabited the regions of South America, who were open to receive us, and who were anxious to maintain a commerce and alliance with us. It had been said, thg his Ma jesty's Government preserved a strict neutrality be tween the new and old worlds ; this was not the fact, because Spanish troops had been fitted out for South America at our expense we maintained some of their troops in Trinidad; the Royalists were provided with arms, and several refugee patriots were denied the rights of hospitality in Trinidad ; the Govern ment of The island refused to permit them to take place there, and at last they met with a hospitable reception from that excellent man Peciou ; yet from Petion, a black, who exercised the virtues and rite wisdom that should adorn a Sovereign Prints. Be sides, the English Government had dishonoured it self by conferring the Order of the Garter on King Ver. d:nand ; and he now wished to know what Minister it was who had dared to advise the Prince Regent to do that act? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER' laid, he could give an answer only to one of the ques. , ' bons put by the Honourable Gentleman. The Bri tish Government did interfere and endeavour to me diate between the Government of the Cones and the Colonies. This was at the time when we were as sisting to preserve the liberty of Old Spain. It was very difficult to give an opinion respecting the troubles alluded to by the Honourable Gentleman, and still more difficult to interfere. We must keep well with the Spaniards of the new world ; but it was, at the same time, necessary to keep up our alliance with Old Spain. No pretext should be furnished for the Public to say, that while we were assisting Spain, we were about to ,rob her of her colonies. As to the question respecting the Orders of the Garter and Gol den Fleece, he did not think such things of sufficient importance for discussion in that House; nor that the House had any right to interfere with that which wits exclusively the Sovereign's prerogative. Mr. WHITBREAD conceived it highly proper to take a view of the state of South America, at a time when we were about to open a lifters' trade to that country, by the abolition of the South Sea Com pany. But with respect to the abominable Govern. ment of Old Spain, he wished to have a more clear exposition of the sentiments of Ministers ; he wished the Right Hon. Gentleman to relate the accusation that we had assisted the Cortes and the King of Spain with money and arms, for the purpose of crushing the patriots of the new world. It this accusation was false, it was an atrocious calumny ; and let the Right Hon. Gentleman refute it if he could; and it he did not, the natives of the new world would have just cause to complain of us. This was a question of the utmost impottance—this was a most remarkable pis., nod in our history. When Spanish America threw off the odious yeke of its old Government, as be hoped in Gon it would do, it would boa most delicate ques tion how the Enlist) Government ought to conduct itself on such a momentous occasion.' Was it fit that }ve should give any assistance towards the subjugation Of countries with which we should hope to be able to tarry on a most extensive and advantageous com- Mace ? The Right Hon. Gentleman evaded the iuestion of granting the Garter to Ferdinand, at least enoned to make very light of it. That once dig. hifled Order was conreiTed upon a man who could be &addend nothing better than a usurper on the rights of hit people ; and he wished to know who had beets the adviser of the Prince Regent in that act? The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER .assured the Hon. Gentleman, that no such assistance as that which they alluded to had been given by our Government to Old Spain. With respect to the re flections that were thrown upon Ferdinand, it must be recollected,. that during the whole of the time we were in alliance with Spain it was with Ferdinand only that we acted, as the pio7isional Governments all :.cted in his name. Were we not bound, there fore, to recognise his Government on his return to his kingdom ? Mr. - BENNErr. asserted, that an expedition for subduing the patriots of New Spain had been fitted out at Cadiz under the eye of Sir H. Wellesley. Mr. Alderman ATKINS asked, if it was intended to abolish the South Sea Comprny ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER answered—No 1 but to take from it all its exclusive privileges. Mr. PONSONBY said, that the subject cf South America was of the greatest importance to this country; he was far from recommending any viola tion of treaties; but he w.luld say, that there was no country with which it was more cur duty to preserve good faith and keep up a good understanding thati Spanish America, for these colonies were of the ut most consequence; and the people of England ex , pectei from its Government, that it should not, directly or indirectly, assist the Government of Old Spain in subduing the South American colonies. Mr. W. WYNNE asked, how came it that such a breach of hovitality had been committed as that of refusing protection to the patriots who fled front New Spain ? It was most unjustifiable and shameful. He also wished to know, why the honour of the Garter had been so degraded as to be given to the present King of Spain ? It was an honour which many great Monarchs had asked in vain. Mr. WHITBREAD asked, if any interference took place on the part of Government in favour of the persons given up at Gibraltar ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, Sir H. Wellesley would use every exertion in his power to effect this object. Mr. F[NLAY wished to knoW why there should be a tax of two per cent. on the exportation of goods to South America? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the object was, to raise a fund that sho;ild serve as a compensation to the South Sea Company fur the loss it should sustain by the opening of the trade. Mr. FINLAY asked, why the tax was not laid on the goods imported from South America ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER. answered, that they were already sufficiently bur dened by duties, and that by laying on any more, we might lose the advantage we derived from their importation. He then moved the following Resolu tions : that a guaranty Fund be created, amounting to 8600,000 to be given. in Stock to the South Sea Company. He next proposed, that a custom duty of Al per cent. be allowed on all goods exported from any ports of the United Kingdom to South America. Mr. Alderman ATKINS thought is would be better to let the compensation go generally from the Consolidated Fund, than be laid on the export of our manufactures, which would excite an alarm all over the country. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied, that so far from an alarm, the measure would create considerable satisfaction, as it would give an unbounded liberty to exportation. Mr. PONSONBY asked, if foreign linen was to be liable to the export duty ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said there would be no transit duty ; because if there was, we should lose the benefit of the importation of linens. Mr. FINLAY conceived that this would operate as a great disadvantage to our own linens. Mr. PONSONBY hoped the Right Hos. Gentle man would not go so far in this business as he now proposed. Sir .1. NEWPORT was certain that such an indul gence to foreign manufacturers would be a great in jury to our own linen manfacturers, and particularly those of Ireland. Mr. FINLAY said, it would( also greatly injure our cotton manufacturers. The Resolutions were then agreed to, and the re port ordered to be received to-morrow. TAXIS. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER having moved, that the Report of the Committee of Ways and Means, and the postponed Resolutions be taken into further consideration; Mr. TIERNEY stated, that twenty-four millions of supplies had been granted for the service of the Navy for the whole year, and that of the Army for half-a-year—eighteen millions of Ways and Means had already been provided ; there only remained, therefore, six millions to crake up the deficiency be tween the Ways and Means and the Supplies, and yet the Right lion. Gentleman came forward with War 'fazes, and new Assessed Taxes, to an amount considerably exceeding that sum. He complained that the Act passed - last year enabled the Treasury to issue Exchequer Bills to an unlimited amount, on Icoedit of the aids that bad been, or might be voted, by Parliament. This was voting the Property Tax without knowing it. Exchequer Bills had been is sued in this instance when no aids were in the con templation of Parliament. To whatever extent they had been issued, ought to have gone towards making up the deficiency between the 18 millions of Ways and Means and the 24 millions of Supplies. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER agreed with the Right Hon. Gentleman in the Par liamentary principle of keeping Ways and Means subordinate to supplies, and not anticipating the lat ter. He had, however, neglected to mention two con siderable votes of supplies. He bad rightly stated that twenty-four millions had been granted for the mrmy and Navy, but be had forgotton that twelve illions had been voted at one time, and fifteen mil. lions at another, for Exchequer Bills for the service of 1814, making together twenty-seven millions, which being added to the original twenty-four mil lions, formed a total of fifty-one millions an supplies voted last year. To meet these only thirty-one mil lions of ways and means had yet beentrovided, so that twenty millions still remained to be made up. He agreed that Exchequer Bills should not be issued :a k I .11 i t. • • - ED.:, ,; 40" Lifer mre i glc rep pissed was a /of this what t] Lit as pith could Eibject ef Lof at pres dispsi Were tnquir person able t} lefts o co aft rental flue The Coo Mr. t;„,. Ordvre wilt tAe. Mr. loglish ennb It out The lay. I. t C rani Sir 11 kraot Lth of :dr. of it sm. Mr. hst C the t x Is. on. 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