Star. — London, England, 1818-05-01 00:00:00

.... ft . . , , ( • ! 4 , - ; , . .i . ; i 7 • ii. , • p .• ; . l i ? . . 1 - L • • [ ~.• i l 1 • y 1 L i 1 1 1 1 1 1 I , ' ) 4 '1 • 4 1 1 1 • i it 1,1 ~..ni t. F r 1 , N 4 ;, , h . . • ,PARLIAMENTARK PROCKDINGS. HOU °kaiak APRIL 30. Lotd '-tbPetitien d ram several Gowen of Sapwood, against any diminution in tike dodo at *pip lap Sad and ' Rape Oil. Mt. ROBINSON obssr red, that though he was aware of the impolicy of the doey,,aad Ow* ready to acquiesce in a certain reduction, yet as the interest of the growers of rape in this coun try was concerned, he thought it was right to continue t h e duty until the year 1119 at least. After a few words from Mr. T. 'Atm and Lord Loco.r.ss, the Petition was ordered to be printed. Lo3rd STANLEY presented a Petition from several Cotton bbners in the neighbourhood of Manchester, praying that tbe Petition from the Calico Printers mig7tt be taken into full con- • aideration. The Cotton Factories Bill r ent ead a third time Com m and passed. and The Slave Trade Treaty through a ittee, the Report was ordered to be received to-morrow. Tie Duke of Cambridge's Annuity Bill went through a Com mittee and the Report ordered to be received to-morrow. The Duchess of Cumberland's Annuity Bill also went through a Committee, and the Report ordered to be received to-morrow. The Irish Court House Bill was read a second time, and or dered to-be committed to4norrow. Mr. BENNET presented several Petitions, each signed by 21 persons, praying for Parliamentary Reform.—Ordered to lie on the table. Mr. METIIUEN presented a Petition from the Woollen Manufacturers'of the County of Wilts, praying that no addi tional duty should be imposed oa the raw material.—Ordered to lie onthe table. Mr. W. BURRELL brOught in a Bill for Lighting the Town of Brighton with Gas, which was read a first time. Mr. WARRE wished to ask the Noble Lord opposite (Cas tlereagh) whether any arrangement had, taken place relative to the claimants on the French Government, as a report of the kind W 34 in circulation? Lord CASTLEREAGH observed, that not having received any official communication on the subject, he was at that roo =lnt unable to give the Honourable Member a satisfactory an • r. Ile had no doubt, however, that such, an arrangement bad taken place, and when duly informed of it he would make it known to the House. Mr. PROTIIEROE presented a Petition from the Inhabi tants of Bristol, complaining of the want of provision made for the poor Scotch and Irish who wished to return to their native countries; in consequence a weighty burthen feU on seaport' • towr.s. Mr. S. BOURSE said, that Government was desirous of af fording every possible relief to so pressing an evil. A Member observed, that the distrets prevailing among the class of persons alluded to had occasioned emigrations to Ame rica to a great extent. He wished to know whether it was in tended to make any regulations on the subject Lord CASTLEREAGH said, the subject to which the Ho nourable Member alluded had, for a considerable time, occupied the mind of the Noble Lord in whose Department It more im mediately was, and that every practicable moons of remedying the grievance would be adopted. Mr. PROTHEROE presented a Petition from several per sons at Bristol, praying against that clause of th 4. Poor Bill which obliged owners of houses under 201. a year rent to pay the Poor rates, when not paid by the occupiers. Ordered to lie on the table. waren solicits. The LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND moved, that the Order of the Day should be read for the second reading of his Bill, for regulating the Expen diture and Accounts of the Royal Scotch Burghs, to morrow, for the purpose of discharging that Order, and postponing the probable discussion thereon to a rre dis , ant day. Lord A. HAMILTON objected to any considera ble delay taking place in fle arrangement of the affairs of those Burghs, which had been rov d on a former night to have been in so confused and unsar tisfactory a state. The LORD ADVOCATE suggested the propriety of giving sufficient time to the Convention of Scotch Burghs, a species of controlling Council, which sat at stated periods in Edinburgh, and to whom, as the law now stood, had been intrusted the superinten dei.ce of these Scotch Burghs, in order that they might examine the provisions of the Bill now pend ing, and see whether there were any suggestions which might be made with advantage to the objects proposed to be effected by the Bill ; that Convention did not meet until the 3d of July—it was therefoie his intention 'to postpone the second reading of the Bill until this day three months. • Mr. FINLAY thought it very improbable that any me Bill could possibly embrace remedies for all the grievances or subjects of complaint preferred against the present Constitution of these Btu ghs. He could easily perceive that the Learned Lord had found himself suddenly placed in a very delicate situation --but it was one altogether of his own choosing.— He had, as the adviser of the Crown, submitted the re vil;al of the Charters of several of these Burghs, owing to their having, from various circumstances, expired. Now he had been assured, by t iersons well acquainted with the subject, that these revived Char ters were of so very imperfect a nature, that they could not be supported if brought into question in a Court of Law. The ccmsequenae, therefore, of the Learned Lord's Bill would be, that these Burghs, instead of being improved by the Bill, would ac tually be without any charter at all. and that these Burghs would be disfranchised.—The older being discharged, The LORD ADVOCATE rose, and moved the second reading of the Bill, this day three months, stating, that it was his object that the nature of the Bill should be generally known in Scotland. He was apprehensive the Honourable Member had been mis informed respecting the tendency of the revived Charters. He did not see how the Constitution of the Burghs under those Charters, were rendered nuga tory, and it was his intention, by the Bill before the I louse, to give the greatest possible publicity to all the accounts of the Burghs, by rendering their books and expenditure liable to be inspected from time to time by its members, and to adopt those measures in the election of Magistrates and Officers within the Burghs, which he trusted would very materially im prove their Constitution. The SPEAKER rose to order. It was an unusual mode of proceeding to move the reading on one day of an order which stood for another later day, for the purpose of postponing such order. If, therefore, the Motion of the Learned Lord could not be dis-, posed of otherwise than by a debate, it would be' much more advisablesthat the Learned Lord should confine himself to giving a notice of his intention to morrow, to postpone the second reading of the Bill. Lord ARCHIBALD HAMILTON was aazious the discussion should not be unnecessarily post coned, and hoped the Learned Lord would name an earlier day than that proposed. The situation of Scotland at this moment was truly alarming as to these Burghs; ' for should a general election take place, several of them being at this moment in a disfranchised state,. they were unable to proceed to the election of Mem bers of Parliament, and whilst in that state, they were competent to petition against the return of ._.,cis so returned to Parliament as being ille gal elections. After an arrangement between the Loan ADVO CATE, Lord A. HAMILTON, and Mr. DOUGLAS, the second reading of the Bill was fixed for Monday. ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE IN SCOTLAND. Mr. BENNETT presented the Petition of Robert . Owen, complaining of the practice, in a particular instance, in the Court Of Session in Scotland; which was read, and upon tfie motion of Mr. Bzwiarr, that it should be printed, The LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND op. posed its being printed, as alledging a general mg. administration of justice in the Courts of Session. Mr. BENNETT demanded its being printed, as a matter of right. Lord A. HAMILTON said, he did not under stand the Petition had proceeded to impeach the Ad ministration of Justice, but the state of the laws of the country as they stood at present. It was a fact, that the Scotch Statutes were, in numerous instances, in abeyance, or out of operation, and it was impossi ble to say which were so or which were not. The question remained in the breast of the Judges, who alone were to decide. What would the English peo ple think, or how would they express themselves, if it were known to be a fact that a considerable por tion of the Statutes on record were in a state of abet. ante? Would it for a - moment be endured? Cau l 'rain's , not. Sir M. W. RIDLEY said this was not the first time the had had to protest against the doctrine advanced by some Gentlemen opposite with regard to the printing of petitions presented to that House. He could not conceive it possible to defend such a doc trine upon any sound principle. The objections of the Learned Lord might apply upon the motion that the petition should lie upon the table, but they were quite inapplicable against the proposition for printing. The motion was then agreed to. PERSONS CONFINED FOR SMALL DEBTS IN SCOTLAND. Mr. FINLAY observed, that before he made the motion, of which he had given notice, he felt it ne cessary to say a few words in explanation of its ne cessity. - It was common to find in the different pri sons in Scotland numbers of persons confined for Sums.of very small amount. In Glasgow alone there were no less than 91 persons confined for debts not amounting to more than 1/. each—( Hear, hear.) — It would be difficult for those persons who had not visited Scotch prisons to conceive what a degree of I misery and wretchedness was in them. It was tot' to be endured that nu nerous individuals, many of, whom had families depending on them for support, should for such trifling sums be deprived of their liberty for a length of time. Besides, it was inju rious to the morals of society, as not one single man of them could be expected to come out of those pri sons without having his thoughts and habits vitiated in some degree. Such a community of disttess and of idleness must necessarily tend in some measure to make a man worse than he was when he first went to prison. There were also as many, if not a greater number of persons confined for sums under .5/. In short, the whole numbei• of persons confined in Scot land for small sums would astonish the House— ( Hear, hear, hear.)—He was unwilling to take up their time on the subject at that moment—(hear, hear),—and would, therefore, move—" That there be laid before the House an account of the persons confined in the different prisons in Scotland for debts under the value of 11. ; an account of all persons confined for sums above 11. and not more than 31.; an account of the number confined for debts above ,3/. and not exceeding 51.; also an account of the svhole number of persons confined, the period during which they have been in prison, together with a statement of the allowances to which the different prisoners were entitled." Mr. W. SMITH observed, that as there could be no opposition to the motion, it was needless to take up the time of the House in speaking on it. At the same time, he could not help expressing a wish that the feeling which actuated the Honourable Member (Mr. Finlay) in making the motion was more general, as it would tend to relieve an accumulation of real wretchedness and hardship—(Hear, hear, hear.) The accounts moved for were then ordered. EDUCATION OP THE POOR. Sir W. CURTIS rose, to complain of the observa tions which he had seen published, as having been made by an Honourable an•.l Learned Member, in relation to a charitable institution which had been stated as having swerved from the line originally established by the founder. Mr. BROUGHAM observed, that if any Honour able Member should feel concern in respect to the statements which were published regarding the ob servations made in the House, he conceived that it would be difficult for him to offer any decided opi nion in relation to a subject which was frequently misrepresented. He, however, took the opportunitp to inform the Honourable Member, that having been a Member of the Committee on the Education of the Poor Bill, he, in common with the other Members of the Committee, had inquired into the state of Christ's Hospital, concerning which, eight statements of abuses had been transmitted to the Committee, five of which he was pleased to discover were un founded. There were, however, three abuses, and the impression of the Committee was somewhat of surprise, when it discovered that but three abuses existed—(hear, I:ra r.) Lord CASTLEREAGH wished to ask, if it was the intention of the Honourable and Leidned Gentle man to postpone his motion regarding the further consideration of the Report on the Education of the Poor Bill ? Mr. BROUGHAM stated, that it was his inten tion to postpone the motion, and he therefore moved, that the Order of the Day be read. The Order of the Day was then read, and the further consideration Qf the Report was deferred till Monday next. COUNTRY BANKERS' REGULATION BILL. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose and said, that as the Bank Restriction Bill was to be taken into consideration on Monday next, he wished to postpone the Country Bankers' Regulation Bill ; as a Meejing of several respectable Country Bankers had taken place.yesterday, in which the merits of the Bill were fully considered, and several modifica tions proposed, which rendered the passing of the Bill difficult during the present Session. He wished, therefore, that it should be understood, that, although his opiaiou respeqing do utility of the Bill was not altered, that it was not his intention to proceed fur ther with it until next Session. Sir M. W. RIDLEY congratulated the House, and the Nation, on perceiving that this 'notion, which tended to create difficulties on every part of the country, was abandoned by his Majesty's Mini sters, and that an early notice had been given on' this important matter, inasmuch as it could not but remove a most disagreeable impression from the minds of that reputable class of the community, the Country Bankers. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated, that he considered it his duty to give this early notice, but, however, it was by no means his intention to abandon the object of the Bill. Mr. TIERNEY said, that it could not but be conk sidered as trifling with the House, if a Bill was thus brought forward, which engrossed its attention in an extraordinary degree, and afteniards abandoned. He conceived that the sense of the House should be taken on this subject, in which the interest of so large and so respectable a body of men, whose wel fare was partly interwoven with that of the public, were vitally concerned. Lord CASTLER,EAGH observed, that it had never been considered as obligatory on any Meinber to pursue a Bill through all its stages, without the liberty of relinquishing it, at any period he thought proper. He conceived that if this course were adop ted, it would be productive of unpleasant effects. It was a stale trick used by the Gentlemen opposite, and he thought, that if interested parties pressed the fur. - *her consideration of the 'natter, the result would ptove unfavourable. -Mr. BROUGHAM observed, that persons en trusted with the arrangement of the public concerns should reflect seriously before they excited alarm in the minds of the public. He thought that the Right Honourable Gentleman had yesterday fully consulted the feelings of those persons whom he was to-day de sirous of lulling to rest. The dissolution of the pre sent Parliament was long expected, but it now seemed probable, as the postponement of a highly interest inj subject was reserved until nett Session. Sir JAMES GRAHAM was sorry to perceive that the measure had not been totally abandoned, instead of being postponed. The public credit was at stake, and it could not be doubted that from postponement it would be considerably affected. Mr. CALCRAFT observed, that he considered no time as required for the further consideration of the subject. It had already engrossed much attention,' and if he• did not mistake the statement of an Ho nourable Member, the determination of the parties whose interests were concerned was already known. Sir M. W. RIDLEY stated, that he had yesterday been present at the Meeting, which, with one or two exceptions, consisted of country Gentlemen who were not Members of the House. Every attention had been paid to them, but there was no individual banker who did not protest against the principle of the measure. . The Hon. W. H. LYTTELTON said, after he had learned the intention of the Right Honourable Gen tleman, in relation to Country Banks, he made a communication to four considerable Bankers in the Noah part of Worcestershire, all of whom expres sed their aversion to the measure. The Hon. F. DOUGLASS thought it would be less alarming to the country, if the matter had been fully considered prior to its being brought forward than at a subsequent period. Mr. TIERNEY wished that this Bill, in which the feelings of the public were so much interested, and' to which so much aversion was known to exist; had been fully discussed. The attention of the Houie 'had been called to the subject, but at the moment when public expectation was raised to its greatest height, the measure was relinquished. It was a le gislative measure, and the Legislature were called upon to adopt not to relinquish. He could not but express his disapprobation of the proceedings, his horror at this strange endeavour. The matter ought fairly to be set at rest, and not by procrastination leave the minds of individuals in anxiety and suspense. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER con ceived, that all argument on the subject was useless ; several modifications had been proposed, which rex-, dered . the passing of the Bill during the present Ses sion extremely difficult.—The Order was then read and discharged. OFFICERS OF ARTILLERY DRIVERS. Mr. BENNET row to move, pursuant to notice, that the House world take into consideration the re lativ, situation of the Officers of the Artillery Drivers. There were twelve troops belonging to that body, of which eight had been discharged alt the reduction of the army atter the peace. The Officers of four troops were afterwards replaced by other Officers, yet they received their full pay, while the Officers of the dis• charged troops were reduced to the half-pay esta blishment. It was true that they, while attached to the army, were not possessed of any military com mand or authority ; but it yet seemed extraordinary, that one portion of Oflicers should enjoy privileges of which another portion of the same rank, and in similar situations, should be deprived. The Ho nourable Member then went at some length into what was understood to be a statement of" the peculiar hardship of the case of the Officers alluded to, and concluded by moving, " 'That an humble Address be presented to his Royal Highness the Prince Regent, praying that he would be graciously pleased to direct that the cum of 3,5591. be paid to the Officers of the eight disbanded troops of Artillery Drivers on half pay, and assuring his Royal Highness that this House will make good the same." On the question being put, Mr. WARD said, the Honourable Gentleman had place} him in a painful situation, that of explaining the official reasons for refusing to Officers of merit whatthose he represented had personally no desire to prevent. But duty re quired this, and he could assure the House, that ddty alone bad governed the Master-General in refusing the boon demanded ; dutLto the public, to the ser vice, and to the army at large. This, however, must. give way if there was any promise ; he, therefore, before he said a word, must deny in the most explicit manner that any promise had ever been held out by the Master-General, or any one. under him, or any preceding Master-General, that could raise this ex pectation. He had been called upon indeed to say whether there had been no understanding in the minds of the Officers themselves ?—(hear, hirzr)— But who could answer such a question ? It would be to assume au attribute almost of Di' bgty, and ' *afar other ability than he pensetsed. All he coed issy was, that no reason had been given for such a t understanding. A letter alluded to by a NobleLt e d (Cochrane) as proving it, when it came to be 1.104 proved the contrary. Having denied the promise, what was the case? These Officers were an anomal.. ' Their commissions gave them military rank, but Vie. Inied them military command. He meant them s se . thing but respect, and therefore to avoid all per s o na l comment, he would read their commissions, er bi eh shewed that their duties were confined to the et . wand of Commissary Officers, drivers (not gu nner), farriers, and artificers, and the managemeas ofth e artillery horses ; but they were expressly e x .: Laded from the direction of the artillery itself, being h c:e d to obey the junior officers of that corps in the f t ,4, Hence the youngest Lieutenant took the comrrant of the oldest Captain, and hence the crimnn,i„ z self stated they were never to expect to rise hi4d e than the rank of a Captain Commissary, ihri. duties they had performed to entire satisfactio; l; the very teeth of the enemy, and as passive sena te under danger displayed perhaps more true femme, than more active exertions, too much could n-is k e said of their gallantry. But this would not a l ter t i.„ nature of their situations, which, from the team e d the commissions he had read, could ope n to t h em very little prospect of promotion ; and if they vet e injured by being placed only in the same condi* with thousands of gallant Officers of the Line, k could not be for the loss of such promotion. Maar of them, he believed, had shewn great talents, roue more than Captain Humphreys himself; hut all I power to pursue a military career was cr i pp l e d 10 , the citcumscribed terms of their service, of eh n i, they were perfectly aware when they accepted thth. commissions --(hear, hear). He hoped he ofesed no man's feelings by there observations ; it was the. selves that spoke, in bringing forward this Can; h e (Mr. Ward} was forced into the discussion, in arta, if he had differed from them, it was his misfortcm —(ilear, hear). It was obvious that all Mar.ers. General should wish for a better constitution dike seeps. Lord Moira had done so, and, he believed, Lord Chatham ; but they could not easily Afar a during the war, neither could Lord Mulgrave, aJ meantime under these Officers there had been the positive gain of great improvement. To alter e: establishment there was but one of two wan; either to displace all these Officeis, while the service Iv going on, and the troops themselves were kept p, or to wait till a peace allowed them to dkband.the whole, or greater part of the corps, and then, di war broke out, to give a new organization with re gniar Artillery Officers. In the first instance the cm would be indeed hard, if these meritorious office, being thus arbitrarily- deprived of their commission, no fault of theirs, and the service going on, were a be placed merely on-half-pay. He allowed the would have then a right to full pay, and the Meet:. General had - thrift - he thought so, by what he alt ally. did for the four troops that were actually is the situation. ' Ire the second instance, the corps &m -selves being disbanded, the service done, and tit men paid of, what could the Officers do, but what y ire re o aso n n hal o f-p f a the y ? disti Th n i c s ti s c v n as. bet in w fa ec ct. r. all Officers did in their situation, retire with err true and a an nd d on ret l tie Officers of the eight troops, and of the The fernier had retired because the service was over; bet the tatter had been, as it here, forced from the 'sr . the service going on. They were ready and in to perform it, but the perfectly faultless west not al owed—(hear, hear.) Had the four troops beets actually disbanded, their Officers would have beta also placed on half pay, and then we should nr.,: have heard of this motion—( Hear, hear). it was the Master-General's strict justice, he would not call t liberality, to these Gentlemen, that made others un fortunately think themselves aggrieved--Rear, hetrt u; it was obvious the commissions of the nee h.d ersecLaravay naturally ; those of the other had begs tom- frOm them, and given to the Officers of the Horse Artillery ! Such was the real case. Had therelieen any thing in argument to alter it? It had been said Captain Humphreys was a meritorioLs Officer; and had served 23 year's! He was the fire to-acknowledge it. It was said, another and moth junior Officer was among those on full pay! Vat might be true, but was there any thing here cot (I every day's occurrence id the Army ? To do ones duty for twenty-three years did not then give a riff : to full pa: He wished it did, and that the country could afford ist-and what was more common, rhea for an older Ofiker, having changed into a youagct regiment, to he overtaken by a reduction, while mr junior Officer, who had remained in the ol der re p ment, remained employed ? Either then you could ;levee reduce by corps, or every time you did yo must createa revolution in the frame of all the char regiments, by examining every body's commission-- (Hear, hear). Such was the confusion which the Honourable Gentleman would introduce. Bat:: seems he only pleaded for two troops, and that bt cause they had served longer than the rest. Cou:si any man that knew the Army say this was a reasca. or that the general rule of half-pay was to be revised according to every case of service? But they had served till the four troops were re-formed, and went on half-pay when the others retired on fun pay. But as he had shewn the true distinction that one had retired with their corps, the other had been forced from it, the corps remaining, could this make a dile rence ? Had they served till eon, if the service were over, would such an argument avail them .-(K")' He had had the pleasure of seeing Captain Hum phreys, and had never met with any thing more can did. He must say he understood the argument arias him in fi nitely better than the Honourable Gault' man ! Such then, was the principle. What was practice ? They had followed precedent all throogl Major James, of this very corps, had been reduced in 1812, and as it was because the office of Maim itself had been suppressed, he never could mews- - ; Yet he was on half, not full pay ! The artilieq a s , the German Leglon and the corps of foreign et" lery had been suppressed, and the officers wren f c ", ever out oaf our service, whether in the line or an"' lery—(Heor, hear.) They too retired on hays But what would Gentlemen say when they wtretcld that there was even now a tarps of Drivers:6oZ, selves on tli.rizialitestablishrisent onhalfie bt Pay !-L ( hettr, hear.) Yet those , no more mgr' cers in tittes — ticid', were held eligible to commissis o " 3 ! in the line. What had these done , not to be placed ou chic same footing ? Nothing—and if the in.)tiva • *al Die Ihl lish well bre on and too, to it bob' • • • bo • I .1 • • ot • ad at e 1 he o f. as •rr al eti a I Tv el to igl alf er hos t:i • .e Isl oLse the 1 dit ; end ore, ever to s: to b cf h Mho witc vice clue t 2 If tl saw hole fs' • errs corn • vas tive ▪ ham i as e i whit Lis ream 'Way 111 • esa < 1. of. ... they , etio t I Is n d ha OL T ci Al I t. IV • ;11 I tE.• ei