Star. — London, England, 1805-04-06 00:00:00

s quill- non. proteCtinn *gain(' the hoßility of the na ••vet, th e only fccutity againft the treachery of our S e poy ft whom the Mahratta Chiefs might fucceed in detaching horn their allegiance. This lag was a critical and interefting view of the fubjeft, and was a m•sit powerful inducement no longer to perfift in extending our empire by ufclefs and infecure con q lolls. our army were fcattered over an immenfe track of country—if they were to ftretch to Agra, to De:hi, and to Ponnalt, it was impodible to fay to what &rafters they might be cxpofcd. He Paid, with great emphafts, we fir(' had commerce, commerce produced faEtorie►, faaories pi oduced garrifons, gar :dons produced armies, armies produced conquefls, and corm - pelts brought us into our prefent lituation. I.f !nixed all that reafon could allow him from the Lord lately appointed to the Government in • • I. Whatever could he effeCted by prudence, and moderation, would dirlingnigh his admi - Ih rtion. The Honourable Gentleman, after corn , •n:-ttin7, the talents of Lord Welleaey, concluded • : • f.llowing Motion • (Su Houle adheres to the principle eftahliked ►y its una •nm Re anamo of the 38th of Mal, 138 s. and reeognifed and by the Legiflature in two (evert: Ads of Parliament of t he 3 4 th and ijil years of his Majeßy's reign—namely, "that to ptirfo: khetnes of conqueft and meanie, of dominion in India, are ntea•'urrs repugnant to the with, the honour, and the policy of this nation." upon the quenion being put from the Chair, Lord CASTLEREAGH role, and after a few prefatory obfervations, Rated the reafons for op. pofing the motion, which was now fuhmitted to the corfideration of the Houfe. The Honourable Mem. her had undoubtedly taken many opportunities of difplaying to the Houfe his knowledge of the finan cial affairs of India; but, after having for many yeirs remained filent upon the fubjed of the general policy of our Afiatic affairs, he had now called upon Parliament in one night to fix their real to a declaration that our conduit in India for the lag o or 3o years, had been one uniform fyllem of aggran difement and of rapine. His mode of enforcing this idea he conceived to be particularly liable to objet tion ; he had feleiltd various pottage* from a niol voluminous collation of papers, where it WAS impof fible for him to fay that the context might not give a very different turn to the interpretation which would be given to thee fentences when detached from the other parts of the paper to which each fentence par ticularly belonged. He had then taken fo wide a field, that it was impoflible to tell what was the pre cite object which he had in view. He could n t con ceive i' p r taibl e th at th e Honourable - Member had de• fl o ned to throw, or if he did, could the Honourable i mber himfelf fuppofe that the Houfe would agree with him in Ramping a general mark of odium on our Councils for Inch an extenlive period? Much lets could he fuppofe it pt , ffible that the Honourable Member was In ungenerous as to be difpofed to call reffexions upon the charader of perfons who were not prefent to defend themfelves, but who, if pre fent, might be able to exculpate themfelves in a man ner moll fully to the fatisfaclion of the Houle. He bad endeavoured to follow the Honourable Member as near as pollible through the different Gatements which he had made, and the inferences which he had drawn; and, from what he could coned, it appeared to him to be a main objea of the Honourable Gen tleman to enforce a particular connrudion of an Al of Parliament. From our prefent fituation he had endeavoured to (hew that we had been guilty of a breach of that law, and he had endeavoured to for tify that polition by quoting the opinions of others, but which opinions were given in a general way, and not with a view to any particular tronfoilion. The Pacific intentions of this Government were unquef tionahly declared at different periods; but then it would be abfurd to Cry that in the event of our being attacked, or of our teeing evident marks of a balite difpofition towards u; or our Allies, we &mid declare to the power who attacked us as our enemy or who was making preparations for that pttrpofe, that " here we are chained to our poll, and, even it you arc unfuccelsful, our Legiflature has taken care that you than not tole an inch of territory." He would take the liberty of obfervirg however, that the lienourable Gentleman had given ton confined an iittotratiras of what were the intentions of the Legit- Wore. It had undoubtedly bound down the Gover. ronr-General in particular cafes, but it had never Paid to him, " You (hall form no connexions, you (ball guarantee no States, whatever may be the circum fiances which than vile." Parliament had only con littered the general fitnifs or eapediency of put% ftrin t r, meofures of a ;medic nature, without meaning to go the leng.h of Ming up the hands of the Governor• General in every cafe which might with hly occur. From the limited nature of the debates of the Houfe, it was unpoffible for him to follow the Honour able Gentleman through his various h ate merits, but he reconciled that the Honourable Mem ber had recited the names of leveral Ptinces in or der to give a colour to his charge. The circumllances which were connected with each of thefe different cafes would be more than fufficient for one night's inveffigation, and if the Hon. Member conceived that any one of thefe perfons were dealt unjultly by, he (hould have taken the fenfe of Parliament on that par ticular cafe. The Hun. Gentleman, however, had taken a more extenfive view; he bad raid that our relation with the natives of India was at firfl corn ntercial, and that we had afterwards changed it to that of a political stature. He (hould, however, h rye had the candour to acknowledge that our poll s% as necelfary to the litppor t of our commercial f.••• ; he thould have conlidered that the conduit r, France was always the goading principle that a.:,114 , ed us to adopt tittle measures of precaution for ur own fecurity ; it was that which made us change 'itort a commercial to a political fyllem in India— '.y cry of Czr ! hear !] The Hon. Gentleman had alto t . .rgot to notice the two Myfore wars ; he finely would not pretend to fav th:l were wars of aggref. lion for the fake of ton g ued only—he would not pre tend to lay that thcfc wars were unjuft or difhonour. able in their nature. Did he forget in particular that which was commenced for tl.e purpofe of the rellora t,tar of a branch of the native Hindoo family to his :tilt inheritance ? The Hon. Member had thought cif, however, to notice the changes which had taken ,tiace in the Carnatic and Oude ; but it was to be re. olleacei that the alterations which took place in our bination both in the years 1763 and 1765 were fuck r e were molt particularly jultifiatte, on account of 11c$1- intimate connexion which thefe States then had • itti us, and of the &fire which they expreffed for . us luppttrt. As to the fituation of flu Mum's Go vernment, he thought that was the Taft which would have been motioned in a charge againft the Compa ny, or the Governor General. There were to,ooo of the Company's troops who had gone to his aftiikance, and they had difcharged their own expence, and added to his territory. The Mahratta quellion be confidered not to be quite In clear, but that a rational doubt might be entertained of the policy of the con neBion. Bat it was to be conadered, that previous to the Treaty of 13affien there were no French in the Mahratta States ; that it was the well founded opi. nion of Marquis Wellefley, that if they became more improved in difeipline, and were taught to aft upon a regular fyflem of war, they would become extremely dangerous ; that however it might be of little conk quence if liolkar was fuperior to Scindia, or if Scin &a had the advantage of Holkar ; yet, if in their improved Rate of difiipline, any one power was to have the entire command of the Mahratta Empire, it would be likely to endanger the farther continuance of our power in the EaR. In 1798, we had offered a number of Bririlh troops for the defence of the Myfore, but French were admitted inftead of them. The Treaty which was the bafis of the Triple Al liance, and which was difeovered after the fall of Tippno, was fofficierst evidence of the connexion which had been foi med. And if any thing further were wanting, the particular concs& of the French at the dole of the year t 798, when they made Inch vaft hazard as they did for the fake of the poffeffion of Egypt, wa's an additional proof of the objeas which they had in view, of the connections which were formed, and nt the danger which was to be appre hended. As to our conduit towards the Pelhwa, it was well known that he had molt earnelily folicited our interference ; anti, if we had once permitted Frenchmen to be introduced into the Councils of the Mahratta States, we might find ourfelves involved in a fituation (torn which it would be difficult to ex tricate ourfelves. M. Perron had been fpoken of but fligktingly, and Gentlemen might be difpnfed to ua dervaltie the weight of his inflnence in India ; hut he thought it neceffary to inform the Houfe that he had a dirat revenue of 1,700,0001. per annum, and that he had an army from 30 to ao,coo men. If a perfon fo formidable as he was, and one who was lead) , to fell his authority to the belt advantage to any of the Native Princes—if fuch a man was ftsifered to remain there unrnoleltcd, and if the French thould have an opportunity hereafter of fendirg an army of to,ooo Europeans into the Guzzerat, it would be impoffible to calculate as to what [night be the con fequences. To avert this threatened danger, Mar. quit Wellefley had entered into a league with the Pelhwa, who is the lawful Reprefentative of the Rajah of Satterah, as being the molt likely meats of ad vancing the interefis of the Company. He had fence that condliFted a campaign, in which he had the greatelt difficulty to furmonnt, but which he had brought to that glorious termination which mull castle his name to be handed down to pollerity as a molt enlightened and vigorous Statefman. He wifhed pa, ticularly to imprels upon the minds of Gentlemen who paid attenii•in to our affairs in India, that the fiate of the Mahratta Empire was entirely changed ; that Holk sr had given lirong indication of a hotlile mind ; that he had intended to effablifh a Pelhwa of his own, and to unite with the Rajah of Berar ; and that lie oily waited until th- termination of the rainy fealOn to commence his military opera tions. There fads, he was aware, did not appear be fore the Hoofe ; he thought it was but fair, however. that they fhould be admitted for the prefent ; and when they were capable of being proved, he fliould he very happy in bringing forward every evidence that was neceffary to explain the fubjea. In the mean time, he thonglit it would be totally unnecef fary to sepeat a principle which had been fo often de. clared ; and, as tile Honourable Member hail not pointed out any - particular instance which he might think worthy of the conlideration of the Houle, hut had entered into the dilcidlion of fo many general fubjees that it was impollible to come to a conclulinn upon the whole in the comic of one night's debate, he fhould think himfelf jullified in moving the ether Orders of the Day. Upcn the SPEARER putting the queflion, Earl TEMPLE oblirved that his Honourable Friend (Mr. Francis), had pin his mots 'n in the ntott relpeltable form that the firbjeet would admit of. He differed, however, from him materially in his view of the politics of India. There were words of his which !truck bin, forcibly at the time, and which he had taken down, namely. that we com menced our conneCtion with India by means of com merce, that commerce produced faCtories, that facto ries produced garrifons, that garrifons produced ar mies, that there produced conquefts, which brought us to the Hate in which we are at prefent. But it did not confequently follow that all our conquefts in that quarter muff be unjuft. There was another point in his Honourable Friend's fpeech, which he muff alfo notice, that was the idea of a knowledge of European taffies being dangerous to the natives of India ; he, on the contrary, was of opinion, that a fmall number of Frenchmen fcattered over different parts of the Continent of India, would be more ef feCtually ferviceable to the natives by inftruaing them, and more dangerous to us, than a much greater force aCting in a body as a military force againft us. As to the conclnet of his Noble Friend (who was now moil probably on his way home,) in concluding the treaty at Puonah, he thought that it mutt be clear that if any blame can be attached to this trankEtion, it moll attach to the Court of Di. reCtors, who gave him Authority fu to di,. Upon the whole he felt himfelf bound to fupport the amendment of the Noble Lord (Lord Caillereagh). Dr. LAWRENCE readily concurred in the prin ciples laid down by his Honourable Friend. The queftion was uf the utmoft importance, as it involved the happinefs of upwards of 32 millions of people.— The principle that was the object of the motion was not new, it had been already functioned by the Legislature, and if at any time it was proper to be fanBioned, there certainly could be no impropriety in again giving it the fandtion of parliamentary au thority, particularly at a time when a new Governor was on the eve of his departure for that country.— Could there be any danger from principles that had already been avowed by the Honfe, or should they have a tendency only to fetter the Governor, as al- Wiwi by the Noble Lord oppate (Lord Cattle reagh), could thofe fetters be reckoned unconllitu tional. that bad been formerly judged necelfary by the Honk ? On the contrary, the proceedings that were lnflitoted againß Mr. Mailings had arlfen from an idea that he lad departed from thofe princi ples which Parliament had formerly recommended to the Government of India, and which the prefent motion went only to recognize. The Learned Gen tleman then took a view of the progrefs of our con quells in India. We had feized on one territory af ter another, and on fuch grounds as rendered the principle of conqueft illimitable, although at the fame time it was hardly attempted to be denied that even from motives of policy we ought to cultivate the arts of peace. Becaufe we bordered oh a power, lhatild that power quarrel among themfelves,we had hitherto thought this a fufficient reafon to jollity our inter ference. By what right, he wiffied to know, did we fet ourfelves up as judges in the family affairs of the native Princes ? What right had we to daermine which was the legitimate or illegitimate fueceffor, in cafes where no appeal was made to us ? Why fhould we ea in the Ealt, on a principle that would n t be jufkifiable in the Welt ? This might be geographical morality, but certain he was it was not found mora• lity. The Learned Member then painted in very ani mated colours, the miferies which thole wars in India oecafioned to the natives. Dzfolation and famine were always in their train. Villages and towns, con fiderable enough to be laid dawn in the maps of In dia, were fometimes found without a tingle inhabi tant. Thofe calamities were at a diflance, and there fore were not felt ; while, Ilsould even a little &ger ache of any relative at home, we were ready to melt into tears of fentimenral forrow. The Learned Mem ber concluded by warmly ftipporting the motion. Mr. GRAN l' thought it incumbent on him to re move a common error, by which a confiderable (hare of refponfibility for the recent proceedings in India had been attached to the Court of Direaars. It was a Ida, that the inftruCtions on which thofe proceed ings were founded had never been fubmitted to the Court. The feheme on which Marquis Wellefley had acted, was entirely his own, and-that of Mini. tiers. Of that plan every confideration of poll( y— every diaate of experience—led him to difapprove. He had been tefident in India during the former Mahratta war, and what he had then witnelfed was fuch as to dill - wide every foher mind from rilking the recurrence of fimilar calamities. It was that war which laid the foundation of the enormous load of debt which had been lince accumulated. The Hon. Member highly approved of the intention of knding out Marquis Cornwallis as Supreme Governor. He had no doubt that the princip:es of his Government would be loch as fhould accord with the object of the motion, and he conceived that the molt beneficial ef leas might refult Irons the rc-afiertion of thofe prin ciples by a folemn refolution of the Houle. Mr. HUDLESTON, from an experience acquired by a long refidence in India, and which every year had fence confirmed, was decidedly against the fyl tem of conquell that had of late been too much fol lowed. Like the Hcn. Member who (poke immedi• ately before him, he attached no refponnbility what ever to the Directors. Though in the eye en the pub lic they were vetted with the affairs of India, they had really no concern in its military adminitiration and the Noble Lord muff have therefore made a mil take in Rating the Treaty of Baflien to have been approved by the Directors, as it had really been ne• ver fubmitted to them. He was dilpofed to give every credit to the Noble Marquis for his exertions ; 1 but a Noble Lord had toppled that the Noble Mar quis would have done Rill more, had he not met with ohltacles from a certain quarter—thaz by this quarter he did not mean Minillers, was evident from his attributing thofe obstacles to contracted and rat-1 row view.. He mull inform the Hook, however, that no paragraph or order was ever lent out to In dia without being fubmitted to the Commillionets o and meeting with their approbation; he could not Ice the julfice, therefore, of attributing obflacles to any but fuch as were invested with the proper au thority. For his own part he was not, perhaps, poll fared of a very comprehenfive mind, nor of thole ex tended views that had been alluded to, and therefore it might be that he difapproved of the war, but he was not conicious of ever having oppofed any ob. liacle to the Noble Governor. This new war the Hon. Member father obferved, had opened the minds of many in regard to the affairs of ondia. The Moquis Cornwallis had done effential service to the Company in the clettruttion of Tippoo Sails , and for which the country could not be sufficiently grateful. That having been done, it was ft.ppoled that our wars in India were happily brought to an end. In this, how ever, we had experienced a melancholy dilappoint. ment ; and, from the meafures purfued since, there was too much reaf o n to believe that the &tire of con quea had been formed into a fyllem, to which they could fee no probable termination. The overthrow of Tippon Saib, he had laid, was attended oith the gteatett benefit, not becaufe lie was holtile to the ex igence of the My fore as a feparate power, but becaufe Tippets was a dangerous neighbour. The Myfore in other hands would have ferved as a barrier againft the Mahrattas, and was in that refpect an object, the exigence of which was dictated by policy, as it would have faved us from thole contells in which we are now likely to be engaged. The Honourable Mem ber then animadverted, in fcvere terms, on the man ner in which we treat the Native Powers, ohliging them to receive gatrifints, and to fuoport them by large fubfidies. Of the Mahratta Powers, Scindia and Holkar were the firongett ; and as a proof that Scindia laa war had no intention of involving htmfelf in a war with us, he was wailing his Itrength againft Holkar ; which he certainly would not have done had his detigns been hoftile to us *had been rtprefented. The prelent war could not Le maintained on the ground of policy ; hot even la) jag that afide; it was not lefs untenable in regard to jutlice, as nei. ther Scindia nor Holkar, he thought, could be confi. dered as bound by the Treaty of }When. The Mar quis himfelf avows that the object of that treaty was to put Scindia and Holkar en the fame footing as the Sutra's of the Decan, which was putting them com pletely in our power, to which they had no induce ment to agree on their part, as a proof of which the Pelhwa himfelf was against the treaty, and war only, at belt, forced into it. Laying aide, therefore, the conilitutional quellion—whether the Pelhwa had a right to make the treaty in behalf of the other powers, the very circumstances of the treaty were loch as to render it not binding. The war, therefore, could not be attributed to the ambition of the Mahrattas, but to their with to prevent our interference in their inter nal affairs. He had no doubt, however, of the ilTue, 'of the war, and hoped that the next difpatches would bring account; of Lord Lake having gained confider able advantages. 4ut though we fhould prove ;tido. rious, what permanent advantages did w, promife ourfelves ? In refpea to revenue, we could calculate on none ; for the more we increafed in revenue, the lets, according to our prefent fyilem, was cur clear income. The Hon. Mernla:r c• , nelucled by pointing out, in a very forcible manner, the impoMbility of k:eping long under Our d aninion Gi gte.st a portion of the habitable globe ; while, at the lime time, the greateli advantages might be derived born it were the Government c •ndueed 0., tit p; i , ciples of a f and rational col : cy ; of t;.i•• chip lit ran, he was happy to Fee hat Minilers had given the g , eatell proof, by tnidit.g 011:4 N .ble L•rd tsho was 10 . 0111 v efleemed and .t i• ed in tbe Eatt.—N, bet ter pledge could be pas, n ut ti•e I ttii.o) w,uld, of our anxiety to proolate thrif i at) I !or fitat rea:On fopported the run i n 'it the N ti Sir THEOI'II 11.11:4 CCA fly,' of the good policy rl,at diflated the • f ;lad the fslattrattaN bee.) :ye. t tall •)•••:er • ne head, they would he molt .! neighs urs. The Mahrattas had long er. e t.tine,t lie ~clign of governing India, by de r i , he it. Pa-, and by di iviog out the Fatialilb, and S,i; s as a h a d tt'e fame views (heir) and he did not blame him fr.r it. It was cpti:e !Natural in his htuaticin, and we lb , uld do the fame (hear ! hear !) The worthy Ba rot.e: expreffed himfelf againft the motion. Lord CASTLERE.IGH explained. The Trea ty of [Roo, he fiid, was the fame as that of 1798-9. Colonel PR tNSEP conceived the fubjea to be of the greate ft importance, and thomght the time of the Holife by no means hid, that had been engaged in this difcuflion. He was willing too that the flibjeFt fhouid not he droi ped now that they were on it, till they lhould know on what grounds they held their de pendencies in India. He was therefore in favour of the original motion Mr. R. THORNTON fupported the motion. lie expreffed his approbation of the proptifed change in the Government in India. In fending out Lard Corawallts in lieu of LordWellefley, we were fullfli tutitl the olive branch for the fword, and this at a time that fuch a fubtlitution was etTentially neceffary. For if it was wifhed to render our power formidable in India againtl the intrigues or Arms of Fiance, he was quite perfunthd that could be only done by con ciliation. To profile filch a fy•lem, Lord Cornwal lis was peculiarly calculated, and therefore he re. juiced in his aopointment. With refpeit to the me. s it s o f th e Noble Nlatquis whom he was going to Inc ceed, he was not difpofed to refill the comidiments bellowed upon hi: charafler it) the coin fet.l tlic de bate. That the Noble Maty:is petr:ffeel great talents and energy no one doubted. Hi. complaint, incited, and that of moil men wit he knew, was, that the Noble Marquis was too energetic, too .li:tile, too en rerprifing. The N• ble Lord had purftizd the war like fyfietn too far, and had thus created a dilcontent and difpolition to refitlance among the native powers, if which the French, or any power boll lie to us, conid caftlY avail itself, if it could, obtain any Sooting in In dia. The conciliatory tyttern was therefore become iodypenfable for our honour and lecurity. For it c old not be denied that for lonic years back we were become in India what the tyrant of Fiance was in Etirore. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, hit confiderable w,rrnah, laid it was not necelTary f r him to fay much, but after what had fallen from fume Gentlemen, hq could not fa hill longer. It was propofed to repeat a refolution of zo years old repeat ed al.teady in Ails of Pat liamenr. To thits,in one tenfe, there could be no material obiztlion ; but the doubt arofe as to conaration upon the principle and the ap plication, and bearings of it upon certain tranfattions. If it were meant to lay, that jolt wear was not to ter minate with an allowance of tome further extent of territory and fecurity, it would be an invitation of un jufl hoftility. Vet it mull have that lenfe, or what became of that long hittorical catalogue and narra tive v. hich adorned the Hon. Gentleman's fpccch who madethis motion ? This relblittion would certainly be no great compliment to the Noble Marquis who is now going out with lo much general approbation. The fecond Mylore war was no more quettionable than the firil ; but this refolution, dill inguiihing nothing, would be a dire& cenfure upon Marquis Cornwallis. The 14°1101 indignation he felt at the idea of fuch a refo lotion was the fact of my Lord Wellcfley's returning home, after the high and fplendid fervices he bad ten dered his country. There m;glit be fair ground for difference of opitsion on Game poioi s of Indian policy; but on the great leadiug features of the N.ble Mar. quis's Adminiltration, there could exid no doubt on ate MCI its of thole tranfat!lions, by which he had con f:rred inch benefits on his country, had teemed her interefl, upheld her honour, and exalted Lcr glory. He had dili‘elled a danger the molt fornnid2ble and menacing, which he never could have done on the prin ciples of the H(:n. Gentlemen oppolite; and difpelled it,during a war in which France wi tired, thy ugh India, to Itrike a fatal blow againit 131 kith commerce and great lief.. The wisdom if the. Nuble Lord had been evinc ed in adi ping the highett, moil important, and fun damental policy of the Britith interelts in India : he had procured, in the itfue of hit 'au iltiant campaigns, indemnity and lecurity—he had gained a great extent valuable fea-co, t ft, a matter of great confederation with a view to preventing the defigns of the enemy. He nit& objed mod decidedly to a motion which call a flur upon thejtiltice, the magnanimity, and the good lath of the Btitfh Go% einment. He need not dwell on the lait Mahratta war, after whit had been laid by his Noble Friend. He contended, that Lord Weller. ley was fully jellified refpaling the treaty with thePefh wa. We ought not to permit either S!indiaor the Pet& wa to poffefs the winle of the Mahratta power. The Right Hon. Gentleman alluded to the attempt made on Egypt, as conne6led with the defign of the et:emy on the Eatt Indies, and timed, that he knew France had Gill been looking to the Mahratta Itate as the great inflrument to be employed againft us in India. He was confident the Houle would not revive a ge neral meafure, which was either inapplicable, or elfe contained a dire& and indircriminate ce nfure upon the proceedings in India for year, pall. In justice to Go vernment, to all the fervent, of Gi.vertatient. in India, to the predecelfors of the Noble Marquis, and in re• gard to the dignity and honour of Marquis Wellelley himftlf, whore name would be handed down among the benetaQors and ornaments of his country, he fhould oppefe the motion. Tyra ever. lig , 1 I i ' 1 • , 1 1 , 4 i r , x l' I ". i I f 1 1 1 1 1 i . : t 1 t I ; I I i 1 t 5 I r 'I 1 I ! 1 i I 1 . 1 i : ) 4 ; ! . ••4 I • • I I . I . I I li 11 .1 tf • : • • , 4 / i I . • / f . ; . • [ [ . • t , I I • 1