Star. — London, England, 1819-12-23 00:00:00

ch law, it must be equally di-! lien. That had been stated by Cottu, in a work in which he 1 Law of France and England; iter, Mr. Busted, had extolled nine in England, and ascribed inia,lbove the other States of the :he circumstance of the English remaining therein in full force. otion on the ground that it was ire an inquiry into a pending rAs an unusual course of pro , and that no public advantage 1, that the declaration of the • an, as to the state of the Re saisfactioni.'but that state n-ne out by the2etails: The dis had not. begun to operate till months. The increase of the ken place in consequence of the being taken off ; but the defi on tea, up to the 10th of Oc with that of the former half , ad valorerg) had been £129,000, , that in the month of April the ount to £350,000. It had been sum paid to the Bank in the last ::1,200,000, and many singular :ulated as to the way in which wised. It had been asserted, that raised abroad, and that securities r it that the British Government inds—(Hear, hear). The whole F - the new taxes was £250,000! the Chancellor of the Exchequer sent occasion, would lead to spe- nds. With respect to what lia& n the event of the investment of nch Funds, the right of disposing will, would be lost, he thought it a former occasion, when the sub re the House, that the French Go ! a new regulation on the subject, nvenience bad been removed. FON stated, that the duty on tea Ist year than the former ; nor was most favourable year of the Re that there was a deficiency on the ,venue could not have been rai,ed ;, as no pal t of the £1,500,000 of r could be realized till the middle sum raised from the 10th of last £lOO,OOO, and there could be no actory state of the Revenue. L thought it would be unwise and part of Government to state the en them and the Bank. For him ed, if 121,200,000 had been paid to ly to leave the rest to Government, Jed. 0 could not agree with the last ouse ought to have the state of the.: them, as concealment would lead, He could not admit that capital of the country without affecting exchaage. That state was •only eJ by bills, and property in goods odd to any extent, without the ex all affected. No correct informa iwn from the alleged exports and time of the Union with Ireland each le balance of exports in its own favour. .8 KINNAIRD was of opinion that which the country was kept as to Cut and Revenue, had been produc :hicf. The rumours afloat on the ment of the Bank, had done much is. LY stated the money due to the nch of Finance, and was to be paid e the Bank to return to_ Cash-pay iution in the Customs had been ad y to October, at which time the dis so severe ; and that diminution was to state of the Country. On the re was a defalcation of one million. diminution had taken place in the and 100,000 gallons of beer had he present year less than in the last. Di the Right Honourable Gentleman l'he question was then put, ithout a division. LY next moved for " An account of ills received in payment of duties, luly to the 21st of December, 1819." CELLOR of the EXCHEQUER he 10th of October* be substituted f December." iSON stated, that the wbole account e the House on the sth of January. CELLOR of the EXCHEQUER :t to the sth of January being substi th of October. ;AFT observed, that the accounts fore the House till the month of Fe louse then divided—For the motion, rnendment, 90—Majority 60. MY then stated, that be should not motion. re notice, that to-morrreir be *void move for Il sums in the French Funds, plated by tbs. ;pout uf the British Government, eat. appli ,of British subjects." • PAPER STAMP DUTIES BILL. LEItEAGH moved the Order of the ird reading of the Newspaper Stamp ►L said, he bad this day communicated hly respectable Booksellers, who spoke minces demanded under this 11111. From edition in life, the amount was of no them; but they assured him, that the e to ruin a large class of Printers in the e means and capital were limited to a . K. entreated die Noble Lord, for us remedy this defeat s and save an in useful body of men from destruction. *3E LAMB said, he TOSS thus early not be included in the .list if such as ide of the House one after another iii [bout the honour of any reply from his line's. He would not make the bitter it were provoked by the declaration of rd, that he did not intend to propose a I the Pass. The very mention of such • an idea would have tendered out itietearrs .indignent , —not our ancestors of the time of Mitred ) with Whom we had little of fellow-felling, but those who lived while Britain enjoyed a free Constitution. Giving the Noble Lord credit for his intentions, he must say; that to him he appeared to give the word of,pro mise to the ear, but to break it to the hope. "'Re , ferring to the discussion last night, he expressed' lijaj agreement on soine points with the Honourablrl, Member for Code Castle; hut .if these measures were passed, Blackstone might be laid on the shelf as contradictory of the new measures by 'which the system of our laws was to be altered.. Would the.' Attorney and Solicitor General undertake to write' a new set of Commentaries on the Ness, Laws? If they did, he cautioned them to pause a while ; for if; the House went on with the rapidity it had done,' their sheets would scarcely be dry before another sit to/o of a Minister would again transform the whole.' Blackstone's labours were all directed to prove that no restraint could be laid on the Press before publi cation, and that all the responsibility was exacted afterwards—Elie quoted the Commentaries at some i length in support of this opinionj.—lf this system were allowed to-take its course, it was doubtful whe. ther Blackstone would for the future be considered a fit book to be -placed iii the hands of the young Stu dent of the Laws and Constitution of the Country. The worst part of the principle of these measures for the restriction of the Press was, in his opinion, that which went to establish wealth as the criterion of its proper conductors. He begged the Houie to look at the effect of this in the case of a young man who might be desirous of bringing himself into notice, through a road by which many had risen to the highest honours, viz. by means of the periodical Press. When he goes to his friend to ask for surety, previ ously to his setting up a Paper, the answer would be, 4' 1 have the highest opinion of your talents ;—the greatest confidence in your patriotism, and to your honour I would trust all I have ; but when a man en gages in what does not depend upon his talents, his patriotism, or his honour, to bring down upon him ciigrace and ruin, it would be placing one's property on shallow. ground, to become surety on, their gua rantee !" Nothing, in fact, but superhuman vigi lance, sshich would enable a man to be in constant attendance on the devils of the Printing-press, could ensure his security—(Hear). What would have be come of the Works of Mr. Burke, the ornament of this, and, perhaps, of future ages, if he had been obliged to obtain security before he published his sentiments ?—(Hear, hear). He implored the House to consider that they were not legislating on a certain esil before them, as in the case of the Training Bill. In that case they knew that the evil did exist, and that it must be put down.. At present they were le gislating on the mere opinions of persons who thought that the Press had arrived eta state of unre strained liberty, which they thought ought to be pat down—(Hear, hear, hear). This was the opinion of Ministers, founded aft the assertions ofJustiCes, with out evidence, and as expressed in the papers on the table of the House—(Hear). The Hon. Gentleman 'concluded by giving notice, that after the third read ing of the Bill, he should propose a clause to render :the Bill temporary—(Hear). Mr. PRICE must oppose the Bill, though ready td . support any Measure calculated to preserve &saran quilliry of the country. To the part relative to the Duty on Stamps he did not object, but could not consent to the rest of the measures. Mr. J. SMITH was decidedly averse to the present measure. Nothing but the greatest necessity could justify it, and no such necessity had been proved to exist. At one of the Meetings, held a few months backs,. it. had been pfoposed that no taxes should be paid after the first of January, with other resolutions of a similar nature, and yet the individual who had moved such resolutions had never been taken into custody. Any Government that tolerated such pro ceedings must fall into contempt. Mr. COOPER supported the Bill, as called for by the state of the country. The acquittal of Hone had caused much gloom in the country, and had erigen 'tiered a horde of scribblers, who thought they might insult, with impunity, both the established Law and Religion. It was a most wise step to stop the progress of the itinerant orators, whom Cobbett, in his better days, had characterised as the parasites of the People. Mr. CALCRAFT was of opinion, that the existing law had not been properly enforced. In 1818, there had been no prosecution on the part of the Law Of ficers of die Crown, though at no time had more se ditious and blasphemous publications appeared ; and in the latter end of 1819, the conviction of Carlile had taken place without the smallest hesitation on the part of the Jury; and he hoped the measure would be but temporary. The Bill was then read a third time. Mr. BERNAL, in the absence of Mr. G. Lamb, moved the addition of a clause, limiting the opera tion of the Bill to the period of one year. Lord CASTLEREAGH defended the Bill, as only affecting the corrupted part of the Press, and leaving the sound part wholly unaffected. Its object was to protect die legitimate Press of the country. He ad mitted, that in this commercial country it would be most impolitic to put any wanton restraint on the employment of capital; but that, like every thing else, must to a certain degree depend upon the wend interests of the State, and must, in some in- Istances, give way to them. But almost the whole of our commercial transactions depended on the system Hof security. Besides, capital by the Distillery Laws was lender restraint, to secure the morals of the People. He denied this was any restraint on the general Liberty of the Press, but a mild and salutary execution of the law as, it already exists, to restrain, not the Liberty. but the licentiousness of the Press—(Hear, He thetetore saw no reason to make this a temporats measure. No one, on any side of the House, could doubt of the existence of the evil; and be was sure, that if they did not provide an instant remedy, they would be defeating the exertions of the moral and peaceable part of • Use community. The laws how ever, did not provide accumulative punisbnieets. With re pact to the punishment of banish t, was proper that a matt should besepara . ted from soci.ty to whose moral and political institetione hi could slut reconcile himself—Mean. Aeas).-s-g0 say that a•sespectable Bookseller or Pruner be liable through inadvertency to this puns y ; was to put an eatteme case. He once more cantina. ed, thai none or these new measures trenched - epan the fair and well understood liberties, of ;Le PULS. passin) ing ui of the clause Sir submit, jeer. - the system liament ; canYassinj from mutf been on-this far a • with had notes your, order. upon side were . become against he ' He was law, self, to not the . cation been fenders. there itn to h ragtime! of ;the YPeb be through any arbitrary . The Ni - Lori purpose he declared, effect, and escape princi man and I Bill, them, operatic» . - . . . . r . . ~ ... . . s . . . . . I. • . • si•-••"' '-- --...-- --eeeeeeeee •-se- • -.le - - glahled no ran emit? to Mt the ire)* Merit merit to is I hitoseltuf Suggesting the meant* of h - • he Preis Was to 111 lesrui thu CetiMiry ft wised paring . .wrap unties an istiiilteatitihs hostile •to the wough the abase ear 4e, rather ihin by the mit of. Gov'eritment=(Heat, hear): the . neit 'instateit dn.- arbitrary Ministers . whatever--(Hear, hear), record;reipecting the Prei,, was the Message brobght Noble Lord 'concluded by observing, that in 1 iiiiWri from the Queen to tee House of Commons. in ing, this Bill, Parliament would only be follow- 1 1712, die year Sit ltrilliert Walpole was expelled, 1 i up the principle already established by the law complaining of the lieentiousness of the Press, and ie land on the subject; and 0.1 the ground he had that too by a person icry properly chasers' for. his -- id) , stated-be-should resist th ! bringing up of the,, great genius arid talents, but not very conspittunts fork - se of the Hon. Member—(Hear, hear); --T! -: - •-oisis attachthent to - religion;Mr..Secretary.St. abut— ✓ JAMBS MACKINTOSH then rose, for the It was also remarkabli that Swift, who himseffltved sou of giving the Amendment his support, and by the application of his talents to the Service bf the • leclared, in the observations which he meant to Public, through the medians of the Pres!, shbuld • 1 1 nit, he would confine himself solely to that ob- have suggested, the Stamp Duties, a measure which •• I He would refrain from going into a review of was so calculated to cramp it. The tar, however, had system of measures now in progress through POT- not all the efFect that was expected from it. Now,the '' lent; for, he observed, the time was gene by for Noble Lord had said, that this Bill would not Of* ,' ! 'i failing them, and he was, prevented, by illness, rate againsrthe Press, but merely against the Irrlnteil n discussing them in their proper place. It was and Publishers. 'He was at a loss to know hoW the :h to be wished, that the same moderation had distinction could be drawn. He had Away s consideril 1 shewn from the commencement of the debate them the 'same, and the greatest ornament to this his motion, and that the grea: questibn of how country, Milton, was of the shine opinion, in the work i c a temporary application ot-the Bill was consistent entitled, A Speech on the Liberty of Printing. This t the temper of the other Bills before the House ? he considered the greatest guard and bulwark to out never been lost sight of. H iwever, as extra- liberties—(Hear, hear,.hear). The Noble Lbrct wad, es topics had been introduced, he would endea- from the circumstances of his birth, knew nothing of ,r, shortly, -to take notice of all' of them, in their the means by which young men rise to the nett; er. First, -he would begin with the principles places in the State by the exertion of their talent", .• In which the-Honourable Gentlemen on the other had: said... , that there would be no difficulty 94 , eof the House argued. The Noble Lord' had these perion getting securities !"---(Heee hear).— intained, that the Criminal Laws of thii country That argument had been so ably answered' by hl • re not incapable of improvement. It -would ill Honourilole Friend, the MPnber for Westaiinstei l • • , • ome him to clissent from that-principle; he would that it was useless for him now'to address himielf to f'i further, and assert, that within his own memory it. Did /he Noble bird forget that it was not of a s y had received a very gn-eat improvement by the single work they were now speaking, but of period's. ' • ! I brought forward by a - Noble Friend of his in an- cal publications; and any man at an conversant with er place, limiting the Attorney-General in his the practice of the law, or the verdicts o f J uries . IA , . over of proceeding by criminal information for must have known how di ffi cult it was to procure sc- - el, than which no measure, since the celebrated curitles, even amongst the author's best friends. Th:s lof Mr. Fox, in 1791, had been se beneficial to more particularly, if the a . person happened to be Press.-(Hear, hear)—these two measures. - he felt man of genius, and no other. was worth mentioning. • .... - \.. stifled to say, were proposed and supported by Such a person would, in spite of himself , unles s he o perseng fOr whom he had the greatest respect— was a mere slave, be committing himself, in each rear, hear). ' But the question now presented itself, number, iat such a way, as could be tortured into an 'ether this measure was an improvement in the offence by the law—(Near, hear). He theretore con- eas it regarded theyress ? The Noble Lord must tended, 'that in this way, the Bill was ail infringe ve taken a mistaken view of the subject, when he ment of the Liberties of the Press, as it diminished gued :hat the extent of the evil justified the seve- the channels and facilities by which so many young yof the punishment. He would ask the Noble men of genius sought the wayoci what in their situa- wd, did he attribute that extent to the laxity of the fion, was fair fame, and distinction. It had, how- I sr as it was at present? Certainly, if the remark ever, been said, that unless the matter was criminal u confined to that class of publications which which was intended to be published, it would be • emed with matter cffensive to virtue and to huma- easy to get securities.. With regard to this, he never - , ' ty, which were a tax upon society, and an incite- meant to contend, that the tame and spiritless • ent to crime, he would agree with him; but it writer was at all exposed to danger; but a bold lould have been proved that the punishments were and manly assertion of liberty, and a regard to sable to cope with the evil ; and he contended, the Peoples rights, would be e isily made sub- - . iat the evil would point out a remedy for itself., jects for prosecution—(Hear, hear, hear).—lf secu- - ould not the punishment be increased by imposing rities could be procured, the fear of involving them irger fines, or greater share of imprisonment on in the consequence of any fault of theirs, would Fenders ? But bow could it be said, when there have a greater effect in subduing the spirit of a ere no prOsecutions, that the laws were unable to writer, than any other fear of prosecution whatever. met the extent of the evil ?—(Near, hear, hear).— In whatever light, therefore, the Bill came intoope- iy this, however, he did not mean any accusation ration, whether in increasing the difficulties of get- gainst the Attorney General,who, as a Public Officer, ting securities in the first instance, or in holding in e believed, discharged his duty conscientiously. terroreet over the heads of the. writers, proceedings le was, therefore, at liberty to argue that the fault against their friends and securities, the Bill would vas not in the degree of punishment awarded by have the direct operation of confinin g the Liberties aw, and even if that punishment had been death it- of tile Press—(Hear, hear !).-There was, however, a elf, when there were no prosecutions, he would ask, class of impotent adversaries, with whom it would , o what purpose it could tend? Banishment, when- be found easy to deal. In despotic Governmentt, lot applied, however severe, never operated against there was a species of hyperbolical subserviency, - : be commission of crime ; it was only in the appli- which was called the Asiatic style, but which he :anon that the remedy was effectual. But it had thought ought more properly be called the despotic • teen said, that the indisposi ion of Juries to admi- style. It was in the nature of man to run into these, I• . sister, the law, was an indirect countenance to of- extremes; for; when the mind felt indignant at an renders. He would not stop to inquire what truth act of the Government, about which it was afraid to - k i i t i l here was in that argument ; but he would ask , would express itself , it naturall y , under the 'influence of the in increase of punishment be an inducement to Juries momentary excitation, took the other side e ith as LO be more rigorous in the discharge of their duty? much zeal, and perhaps as much sincerity, as if it had [Hear, hear). Would it not rather have a contrary followed the first motions without interruption. Print- . , effect; and make witnesses more unwilling to appear, ing could never be separated from the Press; it was ' and the delinquents themselves more anxious to the only means of giving publicity to opinions. He escape the hands of justice ? With regard to the then adverted to another argument of the Noble . ( • principle of the Bill itself, he would go as far as any Lord, that the Bill world only operate against blas- l' ' man to check the publication of blasphemous libels , phemous l ibellers. lie would ask, what was to be- ' I I and he intended to propose an Amendment to the come of that large cuss of printers 'who were 1 1 s Bill, which was more especially directed against unable to enter into recognizances, or what would them, which, by defining the crime, would cause the be the object of their becoming journeymen when operation of that Bill to fall in the right place. the market had been lost for the sale of their —The object of the Amendment would be, to labour ? In the end they would be driven to rescue the respectable Press, which was at this seek support from the parish, and be a bur- day in its greatest purity, from an identity with then to the community. He would now beg to re s • the disseminators of blasphemy—(Hear, hear, hear). fer the House to the Petition of the Booksellers, who Whatever might be its fate, be would suppose him - were a most res p ectable bod y of men, and from their. . \ self acquitted of his duty by proposing, and placing circumst ances little interested in the result. Their , the operation of the Bill in that quarter only where object was to serve these y oun g men from a princi- . it was called for. He would now come to the question plc of gratitude to them, from whom they had de- mote immediately under discussion, and in looking rived their present wealth and respectability. On . • ' at it, he said he felt the greatest alarm at the post- the same principle, be observed, an Honourable Lion of the Noble Lord, that the Bill was in fact no Member (Sir R. Peel) had last year brought in a' Bill infringement of the Liberties of the Press. It would to better' the condition of the cotton manufacturers t seem then that the Noble Lord would have the House as he had made his fortune by them—(Hear, hear). t pass this Bill, without being at all sensible that they After all, the question cathe to this, would it militate were making any sacrifice—(Hear, hear).—He would against the objects of the Bill to mate it a temporary • refer them to the preamble of the Bill itself, to shew measure? He was convinced, if any disposition was that it was a great infringement of the Liberties of shewn to concession on the other side, that his Ho- - the Press; and he left it with them to say, whether nonrable Friend would' not stickle for the precise : . a Bill having such an effect, was to be lightly dealt terms of his motion. If the Noble Lord would only • t with ? That preamble did not state that the tax was let it be in force for fout or five years, that itself Y imposed for the sake of the revenue which -would would not be so objectioeable. He would again ask, . accrue, but decidedly to guard against the assumed would they thus hastily pass a permanent measnriof • , licentiousness of the Press.' This was in fact a pro-, restrictioaon the English free Press ?—(Hear, hear). 1 hibitory doctrine against the Press, couched in la n- W o u ld the y destro y that which was our boast, which i guage . as strong as.could be expressed. But it was was the envy of other Nations; and which other Na- with .. . . ' some surprise that he had heard most of these tions were endeavouripg to copy from our model.? - , f measure justified by quoting Whig authorities. It .This attempt to destroy the . freedom of printing, was s was in truth not st little 'curious roses the Prime Mini- the most desperate step towards destroying also the .. I • 1, , star of .the House Of Brunswick ,' at lb. resent day t Liberty of the Press. I 4 e thought 'the. H o u s e wo ul d , - taking .every opporttinity of desrYierevery stets of not think it too much to ask for some dela y in the _ . r that party which placed that family upon the Throne. consideration of so impottant - a measure as this:— i Did they so sobe forget -the services of those men, (The Honourable Baronet sat down amid loud char- i , who stood by ' • ;. :‘ theinin the hour of danger—or was it in both sidei qf the House). .. . r the policy now , when th ere was po longer Mom for - gr. CANNING cdngratulated the House on their d apprehension,- to cast them away ?.—( Hear, itear).-1 beving at length heard, in 'the long expected and This was not allt a Right ktonoocable Gentleruetl r Prot to be too much admired Speech a the ton. ar)d i . ; opposite had, in j;i's 17114.4ei1ear41 ~ e so far , as to call 'L ea rnedGentlettittA : tbeie . asotis_Wllich migh t . be utmd is them."A(uLordsat r; belseesOlci W ;ear= against the MI, anti wows till toen had not been fluty it with great industry for ;nix precedents amongst the before 'thins'. "To mote of the gen . eral principles hid 1 ia acts of those prescr i be Wh. 1 .5 1 4 . who .for urifords of down and, enforced' by'.his I,:earried . Frien,a, h . e . could 0 size Mall had firier fo g 41 1 10 ; 14.0 *le or four offer no theoretical' bey . 4tl6ri; but he . tbaughc . the d yeses occupied the hencl,es g, other 00 of Or whole :tope of his argurslot . t 2 44e n°t, alrOt.,t,ils House. He dutsti- Novi sir, ts_ cia.lisia ovation, look present Measure; but against ,ni4testraint il Lsomerer i i• Tor . precedents to a mote emignulal snake: A exit'. nsadiOed hy ill inrogitfaif 9,ak i *ions, 4. i • ▪ brited TOry writerlhe meant Dein thrift), in a Vitlrk' - pled - ton die Piet 'tut Veit . % dill he teduld 4 , of his, entitled his " Journey to London," took all the substantially differ from him. He would agree with . ' . . • , 411141 / 4 1- • I • ' . - - . go ft ►Ley other power libel, Bill, pacified two (Hea. whether law - have , argued rity - Lord, law teemed nit, that . Could larger were meet meni shot