Star. — London, England, 1815-05-26 00:00:00

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HOUSE LORDS, MAY a. a Committee. bf Privilege*, the claim and title of Viscount (in Irish Peer). to vote at the Election of Peers for pat of the United Kingdom; and the same on the resuming I. • House, was reported accordingly. he r o yal Assent was given by Commission to the Irish Er Duties, the Irish Assessed Tams, the British Made Wines Primal, the Seamen Nod Marines Fundy Provision, the iitNi Laws Provision, and to one or two other Bills, and to. eat fins of a private or local description. ihe Lords Cominissionen even, the Earl of Snarresavev, rd ELLIE BOROUGH (Speaker); and Lord RBBISIOALL. •:ari CHOLMONDELEY (as Lord Steward), reported that l ate Address of their Lordships wee duly presi.med to the nee Regent, who was pleased to receive the same very gra usly. 1 ViscOUIN BARRINeroN (Bishop of Durham), took the usual on Ms verification of his claims as an Irish electing Peer. se y were administered to the Noble and Reversed I.ord, by . spe Art, Lord ki.issmoasitiou, at the table. Copies of the Orders made by the Court of Chancery In re ....ince to the marriage and settlement of Mrs. Leigh. A copy • the said settlennint, and of certain affidavits made in that oat, were presented at the bar by one of the Solicitors in the ,e of Leigh'. Divorce Bdis sad laid upon the table, pursuant to Order of their Lordships. The rdinburgh Commissary Courts Bill was twilight up front' ...e Commons by Mr. BROOD[N, and read a first time; as were sera! Private Bide, presented by Sir I. 011411141114, Mr. Bum.- !AD, and other Members. 1 he Scots Hawkers and Pedlars Repletion Bell, passed through Committee of the whole Mouse, and was reported Without any 3eniiment. tainest an nriqu.il+d re-enactment of the Property Tat, the Govei 'mein and the House having pro. ceeded on the iniquitous principle of taxation without representation.—( Hear, hear). Sir F. litYRDErr wished the Noble Lord could make it appear that the assertion, of the House not being the representation of the People was void of truth, and that th.f. nr.lnrities of that House resulted from the pnrt'.t, incs; indrpendent, and most patio• tic minxes. Ii the people, in complaining of their grievances, were not to be allowed to reproach the authors of them with their crimes, their Petitions might as well be laid under the table as on the table of that House. 13iit he was not sorry that the Noble Lord opposed the Petition, for such opposition would call the attention of the House and the Country to it. In attracting such attention to the Petition the Noble Lord would become the means of circulating, what was contended far in it—the •necessity of reform.— The want of reform was one of the great grievances of which it complained, maintaining that it was the only way to check the tide of corruption; and to that question-lie should call the attention, -nf the Hesse,* when he saw, chat he. was not likely t 6 tliVit in lain— when he thought he was sure of proper supportfrnsn without the walls of that House.—( Hear, hear). —He ' hoped that day was not very distant. As to the in. dividuals who constituted that House, many of them, most of them, were enlightened, and very respectable; but it was when they were collected together there that they were any thing but respectable ! (a laugh). When they were so collected together, they called themselves the Representatives of the People.—• This he should hereafter spew more fully. As to the ground of rejecting - the Petition because it contained the unpleasant but true assertion, that the House was any thing bat a Representation of the People, end therefore required reform, the House had received Petitions containing the assertion of the same facts, but much more broadly described. In. 1793, they received a Petition, praying for Retorm, which dis sected the House completely. It Stated, among I other proofs, that seventeen persons who were named. returned seventy-four Members to that House ;. and added, that those seventeen, with some few other in dividuals also named, returned an absolute majority to that House, and yet it was to be an offence at the present day to state that such a House was any thing !silt a Representation of the People. But he did not know what right that House had to exercise the power it did respecting the Petition of the People. Ir seemed as if no Petition was to be received that Colliai2ei any other than a sort of 4 Beggar's Prayer and except where the Petitioners approached their doors with • tap in hand.' If a Petition were any thing, it was a detail of grievances, and a demand of redress; and when the People approached that House by Petition, demanding redress, he did not see with what show of right the Petition could be rejected.— As the Pestle's contained no assertion that wittt pot, f.sol'iled in truth, and as the' bjectionable langtrage pointed out by the Noble Lord was necessary to ex press what the Petitioners were anxious to convey, he should persist in his motion that it do lie on the table. It the Noble Lord. however, should desire it to be re jected, he had no doubt the House would comply ; but it was perfectly indifferent to him whether it was received orstjected. Mr V. FITZGERALD was not surprised that there was an expression of indifference 'whether the petition should be received or rejected, for he was scarcely surprised at any thing that fell from the Hon. Baronet). He was not even surprised at the Hon. Baronet's new Constitutional principle, that a petition was a 44 demand" of redress, which the House bad no right whatever to reject. (Hear. hear.) —The Hon. Baronet, however. was rather unfortu nate in selecting the instance of the petition of 1793, which, it was said. 46 dissected " the House ; for the citation of that petition proved that the House re-' teived all petitions. whatever statements they might contain, whet% they Were couched in respectful law. s uAge. The present petition was not opposed on the ' ground of the assertions contained in it, but on ac. count of the insulting language in which they were conveyed. 'Except the House were prepared to ad roit that corrupt Ministers. by their corrupt influence, could fix any tax they pleased on the people, he did out see how the House could receive this petition. The motion was then put, and negatived without any division. Mr. BENNET moved for a Copy of the Warrant, granting a pension of 0/1200 to Colonel Sir W. Con. grave... Ordered. Lord 4oseberry's Divorce Bill being re.conunitted, certain ornaments relative to a settlement on the now Countess of o.eberry, and a ptovision for younger children, were made oa e motion of the Marquis of LANSDOWNE. The report was -tiered to be taken into tossideration that day se'nnight. 1 he Noble Marquis gave *ot*ce that he should on Thursday xt, move the second reeding of the Foreign Slave Trade Pre. 7: otwo apt, and that **Lords be ausiunnaed for that day. '1 be Bits Open the table wince then tetpectively forwarded, _ad the Howe adjourned till to•morrow. HOUSE OF COMMONS. - ------------ The Deputy Usher Of the Black Rod surnamed the Hopis to _:tend the House of Peers to hear the Royal Assent glom by onumblon to sundry public and private Blfl. The SPEAKER, his return, stated. that the House had beard the Royal Assent •!cn to the Irish Parese Malt Duty Bin, Ste. Mr. 1L ADDINGTON ptesented Returns Of the nundoer of •Jneiet Vessels, Conr4cts on beard each of them, Ste.. Warred lir OR the üblr. The Sheriffs of the City of London presented a Petition from Is Common Council, respecting the new Prison building within .t City, and the Committee now sitting to inquire into the state t Prisons, &c. Ordered to be referred to a Committee. Mr. B. WILBitAHAM . moved fer leave to bring in a Bill to Alend the Laws respgcting Parisla.ttpprentice , . Leave given. Mr. Sc..rT, from the Odes ache Chamberlain of the City of i.onsloo, presented accounts of the sums belonging to the Or ., xas' Eund, Ice. Ordered to lie on the table. Mr. JOHNSON reunited Returns from the Clerks of the 2eace in Ireland of the numbers of registered Freclauldtre, Irdered to lie — on the table. Mr. W. SMITH br.,ught 14 his Bill to prevent property be ***zing to the Pour frotu tutirsie ne mbrszlea. Read a fir-t time, ~:dared to be read a second on Tuesday neat, and to be xinttd • Mr. ROSE obtilaed-lative to Was la a Bill to regulate tbe -ate of i Emig oo the Rissr llamas for fort* vessel, sod the eats eaaeliesteards beasebt la, mall 041.111 e, aaj Aatiereill A. be read a second time to-snortoer. Mr. GRENFE.LI, wovrd for a return of the weekly issues of Dat.k Notes from Fetruat I last. Ordered. Irish Hired Servants Bill was read a third times and pawed. WtSTMINBTZX PETITIOIC Sii r. BURDETT presented a Petition from cer tain Householders tithe City of Westminster, agreed upon at a recent meeting in Palace-yard, praying, liter detailing numerous rieyances, that the House would interfere and avert - the calamities of war into which the 4t evil Councillors''. of the Clown were about to plunge the country. The Petition having been brought up and reads Lord CASTLEREAGH ,desired that the Clerk would again read certainlussages of the Petition. which was accordingly clones [Those passages amounted the objects for which the country was to be ilitolved in a war as flagrantly unjust; and that to think of a . 88w war on such grounds, was nothing less than desiieration or insanity. Btu the Petitioners were not surprised at this, when they recollected that the Ministers who advised such desperate measures were the promoters of corruption at home, who robbed the people of their rights, and who would in time subvert the Constitution i;self]. Lord CASTLEREAGH then appeakd to the House whether it was poss;ble for such language to be useful to any good cause, and whether it could, math a due regard to its own dignity and character, :eceive a Petition that described the House to be a 'et of traitors to their country I—(Rear, hew).--Iles could not but deem such a Petition to have Wen trained so as to procure its own rejection. The Pt itioners must have felt that it was impossible for the House to receive a Petition couched in butte language. Nhether the Petitioners conceived such language as calculat e d to p romote t h e purposes they had in view, it the same time it tended to insure •:ts rejection, = be .ould not tell, but he telt convinced that the Petition -.ould not be received, if the Representatives of the kiaopk in that House did their duty. I.la resumed cat he felt obliged to oppose the motion that this Pe-, anion du lie on the table ; but, although he was (Or Telling the- doors :is wide as possible to Petitiemeis, :Leh a proceeding was more likely to secure than hake the right of petitioning, by preserving it from ib°)se•—(lfrar, hear). Lard MILTON never beard any Gentleman rise .n that House for the purpose of opposing a Petition , vi..hout prefacing his opposition with some remark 'hat he was anxious to protect the right or Petitioning, or that he was glad at all times to receive the red ions of the People. The Noble Lord had desires!' r.ertain passages Ali be read, but, he, was unable to Terceire any sena* ent in them that could justify the .douse in rejecting the ritition. It ,might contain ever. and insulting remarks oat some individuals ' , Tcakingoi them in other capadties, nut as Members' 1.1 that House; but unless it contained what was in litiNt to die House, that tact could not authorise tae Huisar ps reject the Petition. —(Hcar. hear).- L9rd CASTLEItEAGH then read other pas, ages frugn Abe Petition, to justify his opposition to it, 412. 1 .,....re it -said that the corrupt and evil • - 4sed*s_ci the Crowo, by cozrupt means, bad üb. WAR AGAINST BONAPARTE. The Order of the ply Tor taking into considera., tion the Message ot the Prince Regent having been moved, and the Message read ; Lord CASTLEREAGH saich in rising to call the attention ot the House to the Prince Regent's most gracious Message. and to submit to them that propo sition which appeared to Lim necessarily to grow out of it, he was sure it was unnecessary for him to say, that it was impossible for any man to have a more deep, more awful sense of the consequences of that vote, to which he felt it his duty to endeavour to persuade the House to come. He thought he might assume, as unfortunately the House had been too much in the habit ot considering questions connected with war, not. to have decided on the bearings ot many of the points which otherwise would-have been comprehended in the discussion, that it was not nece.- , sary tor him to go into the subject on that extended scale which, under other circumstances, would have I been expected. If he should omit any thing in ar gument or explanation wkich,should appear of un portance to the House, hi hoped he might be per mitted to supply it in closing tie debate. However important the question now to he considered might be, stripped of ail that extraneous matter which had been connected with it, but which, in fact, fOrmed no part of it, be flattered himself that no branch of the qutistien on which the Houle would that night be called upon to decide, would either appear' so Cote* plicsted as some imagined, nor the difficulty in com bo; hi 'a conclusion so great as had beer stipptised.— The Or* topic Which he .felt it necessary to separate from the preceot discussion,. was the doubt which had been raised oitli respect to the conduct of one great power on the Continent, Austria, from whom the ra tification of the Treaty of the 25th of March had not been received, though her assent to it had been oil chilly noticed, when the subj.:el =vris last wuclied upon. He had felt this might start a ditlicolth, hot he was happy to say in the course of that day fie had been enabled to remove that difficulty altogether, for that morninghe• had etchang , eel with the Ambassa. dnr of the Emperor of Austria the rati fi cation of the Treaty. the substance of which had been laid before the House, which Treaty was now technicallp as before in solidity, a complete document.; being or mally ratified by the three great confederated powers.' He might, perhaps, now be allowed to react - the note which had been transmitted from the Austrian Go vern,ment, on the declaration which had accompanied I the ratification of the Treaty by the Prince Regent. which note be Proposed to Lay OA the table of the House to-morrow. and he tliought it right to state, the declaration of the Prince Regent had been ac... ceded to iu the same terms by the Sovereigns of Russia and Prussia. The paper in question was 'signed by the Austrian Minister Prince Metternich, and ran as follows :—" The undersigned Minister Of State to his Majesty the Emperor of Austria, having informed his August Master of die note corn *summed by Lord Castlereagh from his Royal High ness the Prince Regent on the Bth article ot the treaty of the 25th of March; has received orders to de .clare that the interpretation put upon that Article by the British. Government, is entirely conformable to the principles on which Imperial Majesty pro poses to regulate his policy during the piesent war.— The Emperors though irrevocably determined to di rect all his efforts, as bound by treaty, in concert with his Allies, against the power of Napoleon Bona parte, is nevertheless convinced that the duty he owes his subjects, and the principles of the Confederation it self, would notperniit him to engage in a war to dictate any particular forth of government to the French peo. ple. Whatever wishes the Emperor may have formed to see his Christian Majesty on the theone of France, and solicitous as he is to contribute with his Allies to 'the accomplishment of so desirable an object, his Im perial Majesty, nevertheless, thiiiks it right to accede by this declaration to the explanation transmitted by the English Government, an the exchange of the ra tifications which the undersigned is awhorized to ac cept accordinAly."—The House could now no longer pause on entering upon the discussion of this question, on tie ground that the policy of Austria was not suf ficiently known. But it was objected that tbe House ought not to proceed to dispose of this question, till the whole of the negociations which had tans place were laid iselore them. He contended that it had been ifie invariableproctice of 'Parliament, ors receiv ing such a Message, to take it into consideration the very next day of. business, which was not a day of supply, and to receive those explanations which the Minister was prepared to offer. This he shewed to have been the constant course from the time of Queen Anne up to the present period ; and -he maintained that the House could come to a general resolution to support the Sovereign in the war in which he was en gaged without going into all the negociations which preceded it, and without expressing approbation or disapprobation of the treaties which might have been concluded. He admitted that the treaties themselves could not be disposed of till the whole were laid be fore Parliament; but the common sense of the case proved that they might support the Crown in a war, without first rectainng information connected with the events , which preceded it, which could not, per haps, be communicated without injury to the public service. This consideration was sufficient to prove, that if they could not decide on the treaty recently Concluded, they were not precluded from giving their support to one particular branch of it. He wished this principle ot separation to be admitted, because he wished the Treaty of Vienna to be thrown out of their consideration in the debate of that night. He desired this should be done, in order to miaow the question ; as their vote would not necessarily be con nected with that-Treaty, which was perfectly distinct from the subject ot debate. It was quite impossible that in a Treaty two objects of concert might be agreed upon s one of them might be a war against the power of Donato-ate—the other to take measures for mointaining the Treaty of Paris, which, or the Treaty founded on its basis at Vienna, ought to go. vein affairs of Europe. Whatever then might bi said by him on the. subject of these Treaties in the, course of his statement, the House would still be left perfectly master of its own opinions respecting them., He was only anxious that, in stating what he had ' now submitted to the House, he sheuld not be consi dered at all to shriek from meeting, the question which might he raised on them. He believed in his conscience, that after such a war as the last, and after all Europe had been thrown into that state of dislo cation which .had grown out of it, that the arrange ments which had been made were the most fortunate for her peace and happiness that could have been de vised. In putting them aside then, tor this night, he. trusted it would not be supposed that he shrunk from their defence. When the proper period arrived, he 'was prepared to justify them, as carrying into execq. tiop, not only in substance, but almost la all the de tails, that plan which had been 'I Tined by a states man fur whom he i and those who acted with him, must ever feel the highest deference iind admiration. Mr. Pitt. He (Mr. Pitt) when contemplating the possible_ success of a great confederation :pima France, had considered :hat general arrangement Which had been in a great meaoire carried into effect to be that Which would prove guest conducive to ti.e happiness of Europe. He (Lora istlereagh) was prepared to chew, when the yin:stints cone IlefOre the House, that the decisions which l a id L...•:n made with respect 49 the immediate interes.:s of this cpuatry were more advantageous than those fondly co:,t.lm plated by Mr. Pitt as the consequences of successful war. He had not hepA that such good conditions could be obtained for Holland as had been secured at the Congress. Mr Pitt had considered it neces sary to extend the power of Prussia beyond the Rhine, and the annexation at Genoa with Piedmont was a part of his plan, much as that arrangement had of kite been censured by those h opposition to the pre. sent Government. .At an early period of the lite war, at least when the successes of the Allies had first given a prospect of the seccessfel termination of the strugele against France, soon after the Ituscian army het crowd the Vistula. he (Lord Castlereagh) had transmitted a L-.•lpy 4 the lisp itch of Mr. rice to the Amb.iss Ont. of the Emperor Alexander, eel desired to bt appriz!d if any, end what alteration, had taken place in the views if Russia with respect to that plan, in the event ot the cootest being brought tea success issue ? The answer to this comnunicltinn in formed him, that " the E:np:ror of AILSSIA had no ziliotT to sum in departure Pram the principles of the arrangement laid dowa by Mr. Vitt in the year MK." This we sortie proof of their solidity, and oa these principles England bad gore into the cc;n test, closely united in the views with her Aliies.— rietiag on these feelings which had rcgulmed hi . con. duct, boreev.ir he might be sensible, that it se is not p issible an air.riigernrin with Roy p .riicl:;:y power could fir the rt.litions of all EUrne ; aGd he did, ti ,t as ell Europe most co-ceer e- in t!:e great work, it could only be ear cted in et sprit o! e'en promise; yet was it ne small satislaeti ei to him, and to all who reverenced the poi .its ot , that great Statesman, Mr. Pitt, as he did, ihai they had lived to see that reduced to practice Inch 1.1 , , great mind, when given to the condd ration et thus imp tilt question, had fondly imagined in chi ab- ract as the utmost object of his wi.hes. His plan tor checking the power of France had been embodied inah it rangement which had beet attache id, as tee (Lord Castkr..agli) must always titin!i, un;airly, at a tuna when the House had not been regularly informed on the subject, and fur this it was that it had been endea • voured to heap obloquy on the present Government. Wishing then to narrow the question, he would call for no opinion on the Treaty of Vienna. That, when completed, would be laid before them, and it wonki be for them to pronounce their judgment on it, but in the present state of things it would be idle to main tain that they ought to shut their ey passing events, and was in altale of comparatirinactivity till information of all that had taken place at Vienna had been laid before the House. He wished at once to bring the House to the only point, at present sub mitted to their consideration. He should call upon them to give their support to the Crown in the war in which we were engaged—( Ifear).—tor the question was not now whether or not we should go to war, bet whether, being at war, we should treat for peace with France, separate from the Allies, by departing from ' those principles on which they had determined on en tering into a new contest ? In the debates which had incidentally taken place on this subject, it had not been denied, that it it were considered espealint to take such a course, just grounds existed for going to war. Nothing could be more obvious than that Eng land and the Allies had a right to go to war with France it the French'people supported the power of Bonaparte. In proportion as it might be contended that every nation has a right to choose its own Ge. vernment, so much stronger was the right of the Al lies to make war on Fiance. In the choice of a Go vernment, so that choice did not affect the salety of others, no man was disposed to admit, in the largest sense, the right of every nation to act for itself mote than he was. In proportion as the restoration of Bo naparte was made the act of the French nation, the offence of France against the Allies was the greater. It u could he proved, which he did not be,ieve it could, that Bonaparte was at present at the head of the nation with die consent of the people, the it:frac tion of the Treaty of "Paris would be greater, as by that solemn act they were bound (and this was in fact the basis of it) to establish another Government. And really we should be in a situation somewhat ludicrous with respect to that individual who now presumed he was at the head of the French nation, it it were attempted to make the Treaty of Paris a Treaty between England and him. Whit. was that treaty I The first article in it stipulated that he should not reign over France. What, then, was he to become the conserviuor of this Treaty ? Could the Allies confide to 'him the execution ot it, when the first article, and indeed the whole substance of it s went to exclude him from the Sovereignty of France, and greater benefits were given to that country than would have been given had he remained at the head of it, as it was supposed that under another Govern ment France would be more disposed for peace than it was reasonable to expect she could ever be under him. .The question was fiot now, whether the Allies should declare war, but whether they sit'onld 'open negotiations with Bonaparte, as the head of the , French, whom they by a solemn Treaty had esclnd. sdetioni that situation ? They had now to consider, whether they would recognize, es the Saveice.o of France, a person so proscrib,rd—whethet they would admit him into all the complicarions ot the idEtirs of Europe, and leave him to make the most ot hi s re serves, so that he might go to war wi.h them at that period when to do so might best suit his ambition ? We (the Allies and England.) were then in a :tate of war with Bonaparte, and consequently with France, it he were the head of it. Howcver the si tuation ot those individnals might be lamented who were not friendly to his Government, but would be involved in the calamity which his unprincipled con duct brought on the nation (though the Antes must be desirous to soften the rigours ef it as much as possible') no consideration tor them could alter the general relations between France and the A.lies. H. certainly telt that nothine but a cafe ti! extreme lit craity ought to urge one country to eia to .w.r t n account or the personal character of the . kkivereizs .~.~