Star. — London, England, 1802-06-04 00:00:00

PARLIAMENT/MI Pk:CEEDINGS. HOUSE OF LOADS, 'MLR snAv, JUNE Mr. Moore WAS for the Alrtllaut, in tl:e rani , at Joitt•!tore tidal, 4tol Mr. Attorney IA: for the R. in parr. imitic% :All JO rank Money•r.ir !Mu Serv , ec din Lad Coe Cb.‘tiot , 10, the Su; : ir bin. the Ira lk:!rils.r. Bi l w ard omv.ini.; of eigo tc. it other toll 3, f v. ml of them 1 ,10.1;e: :ea.! fever.il inzlolure Bills. rec..ived tire P oral 117.—it by l'ortuntrtoo. Sc tteh Rig, Cr: :: Tlllvry Biil ;at.: f w,re ougliCup trout the Cennm•noi. ~rd ?.!ratio: for a net -n CcraltrC Ola the Lb :NB:niter. Vil j'ut EARL OF R:.:(1“ llte Earl of DAKNLEY Tl`f! to remind their Lord(hipsoffonte proecedin2,s that had taken plact three years ago relative to the p,:d;giee of the Eat) of Eel-I:city. The proc•reditig., to which he had ail ided had occupied att.. ntio» of the Houle for frime weeks, :u were at ;,:!%tli put an end to hv the motion of a Nobl, and Illtittrious Duke op polite to him (the Doke otClarinice) ; and as that motion left the proc:etrlinzi in .t very unlined aod iniperfea Hatt', he thou t ;lit it highly necc(fary for the honour and feelings of the noble perfons implicated in the ensui: y imlittned. to move for the revival of tit•Nfe proe,:edittirs, and these/tire he svntild %sills to lt.qe the queltion i,t adjournment read.—The quAion WA% accot Jingly lead front the minuet 1:nok of the Committee of Privileges, and was as It:Mows: Die 7ev;r, 20 7W3ii, r 799. " Then it was moved that this Committee do " now adjourn. Accol Jingly the fame was ad " journed." lan.d Daamtry returned his fpeech, he laid malty of their Lordthirs would douhtlels recollea that the grounds which lid to the motion of the Noble and Ilittlirir,us Doke were there : a Noble Dike whom he did not then fee in his place (the Duke of Richmond) hail pit a queition to a wittier. at thebar,which involved in the .ins wer it called for what mutt necetlirily leave given great offence to the delicacy and feelings of the noble perfons im plicated in the refult of the invetiigation then pro. ceeding upon. He had therefore, his Lordship Paid, taken the liberty to objefi to the quellion being put, and a converfation arifing thereupon, a noble and learned Lord now relent arongly re probate.: the whole proceeding as futile in itfelt and inapplicable to any funaions that the Houle poileffed. In confequence of which declaration, and a coincidence of fentiment in the minds of le veral other noble Lords, the Noble and Illuftrions Duke moved the adjournment, which was agreed to. Lord Darnley laid, it was not neceffary for him to detain their Lordthips with entering into further particulars of what pallid in 1799np0n the fabjea, he would therefore content hinifelf with moving, that the laid proceeding be revived in the Committee of Privileges next Thurfday. Lord Tr+ vitt-ow rote and laid, that for the very resin which in t 799 induced hint to (late his ob je4tions to the proceeding then Foing on, lie mull refill the motion hill made by tne Noble Lord.— He objeaed in 1799 hecanfe the Houle engaged in a tranfaEtion that was in itfell a nullity, the Houfe piddling no jurildiaion whatever over fuch a cauti: as they were then engaged in. They were in fa& trying a cattle invr.leing the intereft of par ties not before them, parties who were minors, and a calla! involving contiderations of great delicacy with regard to the feelings r f noble perfons, with the difpolal of whole property they had no right to interfere, and in a manner perfeeliy repugnant and rave lting to every principle oflaw and jentice, becaufe all their examinations of pertints called to t re bar amounted to nothing, it was not evidence, and could not be received as evidence in any Court of Record in the kingdom. But, exclufive of this, his Lordthip laid, a new and hill Itronger reafrn had rifen in the haerval since 1799. — He had been informed that a regular procefs had been initituted in the highell Court below, the Court of Chancery, where legal evidence could be re:oil:10y taken, and which mutt be received as furl in every Court of Law in Wettnaintter Hall, a:ld the refult, he was given to underfiand, had been, that the Earl of Berkeley's firtt marriage had been. by a body of itnqueltionable evidence clearly efiabliflted, and his eldeit fon not only proved to be his firll born male itfue de faaa, but his legitimate eldt It fon. All the clouds and doubt, therefore, that had been thrown upon that very interelling and important circurnilattae, on account of the frit marriage having bred celebrated in p: irate, and a second mat riage Leen lubfequently celebrated, were removed taid cleared up. His Lordship laid, that in addition to the reafons that he had tkated, winch had led him to obje& to the proceeding:. :aoiiig int in that hottle in 1799, and which now induced him to refill the noble Loid's nt }th , n, one I:rang additional ar:;nment againil which arofe out of the Iron ra the vtrente being ex amined, v•liich was eilential to the met its ~f a cattle the native lie had defcribed, arid to the intereits or all !I:1 parties whenever the parents tellimony c add be h.gally taken and made matter of legai av,lenea, and in the cafe in the Can rt of Chancery it V. AS haeal evidence, but in that Houle the pa. rams conid not even be beard. io i'Al*,tlicrct;tre, f,.,0r cons:wain: in opinion that the proceeding Would he vane we'd helot e their Lot elt hips, he !honk f. int a vary dilrerent mode of proceeding, and sh.•• wonl.l hi , to move for the repeal of the ftaud in oid.a. and annul the orders nine(' to Glynn fi:araa of Arms under its ambority. His Lot ilthip d:railed the particular power.. that were given to Garter King of Arms wider that Order, and mt. foiled optat their clie t. iii order to thew the abint • dity and inefficacy of any Mottii y intlittacd by v i r r oe of what Garter King, of Arms thor.ght it his duty to bt lug forward in ci ;di:qui:nee of the or cLr's reference to him. After a good deal of rea foiling his Lot dflrip concluded tatit moving as ;e• aa'inlmcnt to leave out the principal words, anti to infert, "that the flanding order he repealed." 'I" LORD CH act. L LIM left the ',Vociliciet, :tad 176,1, it. had not born his 0:n oft fru-tune to heir dir• tinnly what the ;:01,1.2 Lord who made the erigi i n moti•tu ht:Ad idles, and as to what had patted *lt I lantie,on a former occa lion, their Lot t ai l s. would recelka, that be had cut at that time the honour of a fe,rt in the I-lonfe. rie :anew, therefore, 1 aothing refpeetin7 them, further than what Lad e .me to hi: knowledge by means of a proceeding, hat had replarly been brought before him, in the ;dace in which his Majetly bad done him the 'ionour to place him, he meant the Court of Chan ,:ery. A procefs bad been there formally inditut ed, in cnr&oucnce of a trait brought by a minor to efiablillt his right to chic' flip, in coillequence rd which he claimed a to his fitli.:r's title and honours, as well as 11;s fortune after his demife, whenever that event fhonld tal:eplace ; that claim depended altogether on his own legitimacy, which could nr.ly he ettabliared by the validity riir his fa tlitt's marriage previous to his own (the ton's birth) being legally 'roved. It was undoubtedly true that the tellimony of a father and mother can in Inch a cafe he taken in the Court of Chancery, and is to all intents and purples legal evidence,'' :;s it w:ntld be in every othu.r Court of Law, where it mull ever continue to be received in future time' as a legal record, after their demife, whenever an iffne (hall he to be tried to which it bore relation, becaule it is taken ,"rt ,h.ipekiam rei mrmoriam, as it is rtfually termed. Upon the pleadings and depo fitions urged .ead produced in the caufe to which lie had jolt roared, the legality of the firft mar riage of the Earl of Berkeley and his prefent Conn tefs was fully proved and ctlablithed. But it was a praCtize of that Court, founded on the )bra bed perneiples of equity and jullice, to allow a pet ton actin{ in the charaCter of what was technically called the near ft icnd of any other of the children horn fubfequently, and after the celebration of the fecond marriage, to enter a claim on behalf of Inch other child, in order to have it recorded, to remain hereafter to be brought forward, in cafe 'itch minor, when become an adult, and after the demife of his parents, fhould clinic to litigate the claim to recorded, and in that cafe, he, as well as his brother, would be entitled to all the advantage of his deccafed parents' evidence having been ac corded, in order to preferve it in perp'uam re.; me mcriam. His Lortifitip. laid he (poke with great deference, and he might fay almofl with trem. hling, when he oppofed any reafiming of his to any opinion advanced by his Noble, Learned, and Experienced Friend, the Noble and Learned Lord oppolite to him ; but there was a fhade of differ ence of opinion between them upon a part of his Noble and Learned Friend's argument, which he Rated. His Lordfhip carnefily cautioned theHoufe againfl inflituting any proceeding within thole walls that might eventuallyiu poliibility weaken the genuine , effed of the legal evidence already record- cd in a Court of Chancery ; and treclared that he not only spoke from his head, but he might on fuel; alt uccafion fay, he fpoke from his heart, when he gave their Lordthips this advice. He added more oblervations, all tending to enforce the feri-1 oils caution that he had preyed upon them with fo much anxiety and earneltnefs. Lord DARNLEY lamented that he had not made himfelf clearly underflood by the Noble and Learn ed Lord ; all that he withed to do upon the pre fent otcafion was to remind firth of their Lord fhips as were in the recollection of what had pail fed in 1799, by the proceeding having been ad journed ; and as it was then left in an unfiniffied (late, to move for the revival of the Committee, in order to difpofc of the whole matter one way or the other, fo as to put an end to it ; but what had fallen from the Noble and Learned Lord near him (Lord Thurlow) made it indifferent to him whether his motion was agreed to or not. His end would he fully anfwercd. Lord THURLOW rofe to reply to what had fallen from the Noble and Learned Lord on the Wool lack. He fhortly recapitulated his former argu ments, in order to convince the Houle of the in- , efficacy of trying a caufe ex parte with the parties not before them, where all their examinations of witneffes went for nothing, as it could not be re ceived in any Court of Law as legal evidence, and thus continuing to carry on proceedings by which nothing could be got. In order, therefore, to put au end to fuck prances, and to get rid of the dif grace of inttituting a mode of trying caufes un known to any other Court of Judicature in the kingdom, he would move that the )lauding order be repealed next 'Thurfday. The Duke of NoavoLc Paid, was the Noble and Learned Lord aware that he could not move a re peal of a handing order without giving a previous notice ? he apprehended, therefore, that the Noble Lord only meant what he had laid as notice for Thurfday next. Lord TH CYR tow Lid he was in order corredny. That the rule Oas to flute a motion for the repeal of a (landing order, and name a fubfequent day for taking it into confide' ation. The Duke of Noarota faid,he &fired it might he armlet flood that, under filch a notice, it would he impotfible to do arty thing more or beta than to repeal the whole ilanding order,wliereas, perhaps, 'lime Noble Lord might with to modify and amend it, fo as to refcind the objeCtionable part, and Rill preferve the unobjectionable part, under which their own dignities had been maintained, and much good had refolted from it. A (tort converfation took place upon this part between the Duke, Lord Thurlow, and the Lord Chancellor. ?,nrd It Low raid, among other things, that. they might make any order they pleated in order to preferve the dignity of their proceedings, but that he would not give a pinch of fun' for all the pedigrees that had becn laid on the table. Lord DARN LLY role one: more, merely to ex. prek his willies that let the turn of that proceed ing be what it might, the Noble Earl who had been die main fulbjea of all that paired 41 insi, to which h' and other Noble Lords had referred that Jay, would not be fuffs-red to remain without fume. .Ling being done to remove the very implcalant t.clings that moil have agitated his mind, and Jett of his noble family for ionic time pall. At Itugth Lord Darnley's Motion •••as put, and he Not Contents had it, and then LordThurlow's, hick was agreed to. AMOUNT OF PRODUCE OF OLD STORES. The Earl of SUFFOLK Elated, that, according to the papa- laid on the Table, it appeared tinder the hc.td of Pcntions and Gnituities paid (du of the "I prajnee of the tale of Old Naval Storer, that l'eatious were paid to the Fillt Lord of the Adrai ralty, the Treafurer of the Na: y, : n t•d the Judge of the Admiralty, but the whole of :Le Fenfl:ins in the pi iuted lilt did not amount to above eight or nine • thoidand pounds, whereas, he prefumed. the while amottut of the produce of Naval Stores ‘v; to aniomit to nearer eight times ac much. He thereMre moved an Addrefs to his Majcily to give or:lets that an account of their whole amount ihould ht laid before the Houle. Lord laid, ts the Noble Earl 1:141 much firth on the word Pay.:orr, he would not objea to his motion. From the time that the Mlice of Lord High Admiral had been ahoiithetl, it was well known that fund was createJ by the produce of tit,: (ale of naval fibres, and that it was as appli cable to public purpofes as any other public money whatever. The Earl of Sty FFOLK (aid he had ufed the word Pt•njons bee:title he found the printed paper on the ta,le denominated them—" Penfions and Gratui tio." _ . Lord AUCKLAND laid, the Noble Earl was un-. der a miitake throughout the whole of the opinion he entertained upon the fuhjea. The amount of the ptoducc of the fide of old naval (toms was no keret. It was annually laid upon the table of tha Houle of Commons, and was to be fen by any Nlentber of either Houle of Parliament. Lord SUFFOLK'S motion vas agreed to. MILITIA AUGME4TATIONI BILL. Co reading the Report t,f lie Committee on this Bill, Lord HOBART introduced an amended Claufe, in lieu of that which he had moved in the Com mittee on Monday lath This gave rife to a long and defultory converfa tion betwetn the Earl of Carnarvon, the Lord Chancellor, Lord Fitz william, Lord Peiham, Lord Romney, Lord Hobart, and other Noble Lords. At laa the Houle divided on it.—Contents 13 — Not Contents 6. After fumy further conyerfation, Lord Rota., moved an amendment, which was agreed to as were likewifc fiveral moved by Lord HOBART, which ended the bufinefs of the Report. Some othei bufinefs of form took place, and at tight o'clock the Houfe adjourned to Weiner. day next. HOUSE OF COMMONS. The Houle went into a Committee on the hilh AR* relative to the Duties on Coffee. A Refolotion was moved for cond. nuirg the Paid Adla. The Report was received, and Bilis or dered purfuant to the Herolotion. The Houfe, in obedience to aleffage, proceeded to the Houle of Lords, where the Royal Affent was given by Com mit:lion to feveral Bills. ' The S ►CaLTAty at WAX prefented the Army Eftimates for the remainder of the year, and propoftd they thould be voted in the Committee of Supply on Wcdnefday next. Mr. Sr aor.inr prdented the Ordnan e Eftimates for the fame reriod, and propored to vote them on the fame day. Sir Haalti MILDMAT. in purfuance of his notice, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Adts rt.lativc to the (hooting Black Game. _ _ _ Mr. VANSITrAnr gave notice that the Navy Eftisnates would be moved, in the Committee of Supply, on Wednefday. The CIiANCILI.OII of the Exeuzikoaa gave notice that he would, in the Committee of Ways and Means, on Friday fen night, move a Supply to cover the ferviecs for the remainder of the year. Mr. CORRY Rated, that he would, on the fame day, bring forward a Emilar propofition with refpcdt to Ireland. Mr. CORA Y moved for an Account of the Sums siceeffary for the Remuneration of Public Servants In Ireland for extra la bour, which was ordered accordingly. The CHANCILLOI of the Excites:via moved the Hoeft Ovoid, at its rificg, adjourn to Wedndday next, wilds was agreed to. The Irith Coffee Duties Regulation Rill was read a fidt, and ordered to he read a fecond time on Wednefday neat. THE LORD CHANCELLOR OF IRELAND. Mr. CoRRv obferved, that in confequence of the Union with Ireland, the emoluments of the Lord High Chancellor of that part of the kingdom, had undergone cordiderable diminution by the aboli tion of the office of Speaker oldie Houfe of Lords, and of the fees payable upon the paling of Bills. By an A& of the Trills Parliament, compenfation was to be given to perfons holding offices, to the extent of what they lhould be lofers by the Union. That AR extended to the Lord High Chancellor, and in confequence of it, a compenfttion for life had been made to the Noble Lord who had lately filled that important office. His much lamented death rendered it necelfary that the Houk fhould be in poireffion of the exaa amount of the falary and fees of the office of Chancellor of Ireland. He concluded by moving, that there fhould be laid before the Houfe an account of the grofs and net proceeds of the salary and fees of the Lord High Chancellor of Ireland. Mr. M. A. TAYLOR expreffed his fatisfaftion at the litbjeet having been brought before the'Houfe ; he thought it of the greatett importance that the office of Lord High Chancellor lhould be filled by a man ,of talent, and that he fhould be amply compenfated for dilCharging the arduous duties of his lunation. Mr. STEWART Paid, he highly approved of the motion. The quellion was put and carried in the affitmative. SLATS *TRADE. General Gascota ME rofe to withdraw his notice of the motion relpeeling the Slave Carrying Bill. His motive for fo doing was the advanced period of the Sctlion. He willted to fubmit to the con fideration of an Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Wilber force) whether it would not be expedient that the motion of which he had given notice on a fimilar fuhjea, though of a contrary tendency, Mould alto he deferred till the next Setlioni Mr. WiLasitroact. raid, he could not fit ffer the prefent Seffion to pals over, without fubmitting a motion u. the Houfe upon the fubjea. He was proceeding to advert to fame former proceedings of the H.•ufe, when he was interrupted by Mr. Sr r AKER, Who defired to know wjyther the Hon. Member meant to withdraw his motion, and whether he-was aware there was another Order of the Day to be difctifTed before it Mr. WitacaFoacc declined withdrawing his motion. Mill{ SIX PER CENTS. 1 The Honk thcn rdelved itfelf into a Committee lon the Bill for taking cif the duty of &per Cent. ,from kith R ctatlers. I Mr. CARRY f.tid, that in order to explain the fitbjed completely to the Committee, it would be uccefiry for Lim to take a Ilion view ut the origin and progrefs of this duty of 6 per Cent. on Pt railers. In the reign of Charles 11. o (lacy per Cent. was !aid upon all Goo it invorttd i].7 o Ireland. The excite was allowed to be paid 1111 transferring the goods to theta tiler and confurncr, intlead of levying it immediately cm importatien. At. a contiderable interval after w ar ‘ I F ,, thele ex emptions and advantages were tal wtvay, and iii lieu of them the v.lnleiale Dealers were 31i(it7. cd a difeount of 6 per Cent. on immediate payment of the Duties. Affairs remained in thi- not e 61; the year 1782, when this dilefillnt vests tirely dif continued, and the Wholetak K:rehain t, as acjl :la the Retailers, flood in the fame t not: in a'. on. der the original Aft ; but, at the fame time, the 'difparity between them was continued by a new impofition of 6 per Cent. on the It etaiic,.s. Th_ was laying an unequal, and at very heavy lon (1 , -ri on that body of men ; but in reality 6 per Cenx. wt. not the whole of their burtleen; for :Wiwi ! . the Importation Duty to it, they, in fact, paid riper Cent. on their goods. • Such a heavy taxatinu tainly called for relief. A Petition lay before t h e Committee to this effect from the frith Retodei s : They underflood that no unequal Duty was paid by the Englifh Retailers; they therefore peti:ioaed that Parliament would aflinsilate ther,lto the Eng. lith Retailers, according to the Ipirit of the Union. The Duty, befides, was not produdive, and taking it off would the a very fmall diminu tion of the Revenue. He was convinced of the propriety and jufkice of hearkening to this Eli lion ; and, therefore, he concluded with movin[e. " That leave be given to bring in a 8111 to relieve the Irith Retailers from the Duty of 6 per Cent." Mr. BERESFORD faid, he could by no Tr =11.5 agree with the ideas of the Right Hon. Gentl e m an on this fubjed. The allegations in the petition he looked upon as by no means corred. They feemed to give a recent origin to a duty that arofe from the nature of the Excite Ad pages in the reign of Charles 11. The wholefale merchants were allowed originally to bond their goods. 1 his privilege they exchanged in 1679 for 6 per cent. difeount on prompt payment of the duties. This regulation continued till 1785. It was impolELle to allow the retailers to bond their goods, and there. fore they had never had this privilege, or any cow.- penfation for it, and confequently the difference between them and the wholefale Merchants had continued for a fpace of 123 years. Another alle viation was, that no fuch difference exifted in Eng. land. But this arofe from there having been no Import Duty there ; othcrwifc inch a difference would have been a necelfary confeciticnce. The' 6 per cent. impofed in 1785, only placed the wholefale and retail dealers on the lame ielattve fituation as they were before that period. Aa alteration in this relative fituation would require alfo an alteration in the other mercantile laws...— It had been urged, that it was intended to place the retailers on a footing of equality with the other dealers. He did not like the term equality ;be was not for altering old laws, and introducing in novations, in order to favour that ()Item. And as the wholefale dealers laid out 'a much greater ca. pital, and their returns were - flower, he thought it was juft that they fhould have fuperior advanta ges to the retailers. Mr. 011titSBY thought the retailers entitled to relief. General GascoYwa gave the meafure his cor dial fupport, and expreffed his fatislaftion that the principle of affimilation between the two countries was carrying into effea. Mr. Coital' did not.wifh himf .c.. to he consi dered as pledging liimfelf to the principle of affi milation, except, w 1 ere it could he aged upon with fairnefs • both countriei. The prefent queftion had no conneflion with the relative lima tion of the two countries in refpeEeto each other; it turned entirely upon the internal policy of Ire land, and in this ref pe alonehe wifhed to he un derftood as at prefent claiming its affimilation w h it England. Mr. FOSTER contended, that - the relief at pre• fent moved for was tumeceilliry. The 6 per cent. impofed in 1785, was never complained of till ihe retailers were, four or five years ago, brought forward, and (heron how to form complaintc.— When it was confidered that the revenue of Ire land laft year fcarcely amounted to 40c,c001. above the inttreft of its debt, we ought to be very careful in taking off the fitralleil tax, unlcis a hin ter fubftitute for it could be firft provided. But no better could be found than a tax fanaione , i hlr time, fubmitted to without complaint, and no ways vexatious in its operation. The Houfe then divided on Mr. Corry's ma tion.—Ayes 33—Noes rB—Majority 15. SINKING FUND. The Houfc having refolved into a Committee on the Sinking Find, The CHANCELLOR of the Excarnrsit that after the full explanation which had I,r -merly been given of the intended alteration in the Sinking Fund, he fhould, at prelent, if no oppolition occurred, merely proceed to fill up the blanks. _ Mr. BANEES Paid, that Tome conruflon hid arifcn in the public mind with regard to the ore rations of the exiaing Sinking Fund ar.l that propofed. The truth was, that no difference ,!s --ifted in their ultimate operation, and that no al.- vantage arofe to the Public from the prop &d teration, except the one per cent. on the lall But the difadvantages of this propofed plan, ;:e contended, were Much greater than the Public had any idea of. Till z floß it was allowed the advan• tages of the two plans bore no companion, the period of their difparity would, on trial, he doubted, be found ereatly to exceed the calcula tion. The new plan was of the nature of a hones —it relieved ourielves from the neceflity of provi ding for the one per cent. on the fall: loan, art left poilerity to lock to themrelves. He contenc.• ed, that taking flocks at par, no advantage could be derived from the ntw plan in lets than 38 yt:•rs —taking them at 7;, no advantage could be de. rived from it in leis than 28 years. Until the arrival of thefe periods, its advantages would I'2 lets than thole of the plan of 1792. Would not thefe advantages, put off to a diftant period, when coupled with immediate difadvantagea, have .