Star. — London, England, 1801-02-11 00:00:00

PARLIAMENTARr PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF LORDS, TUESDAY, FEBRUARY tm• The Marquis of BUCKINGHAM, Vircount WENT . ROltTil, and the Bilbop of Ety, were (worn, and took their Seats. Previous to the Order of the Day being con fidered, The Earl of Sorroic adverted to his query of yellerday. and wifhed to be informed by any Lord who might be acquainted with theinten tions of Government on that head, whether the appointment of a Committee, or a revival of that! of laft Sefton, to inquire into the caufe of the pre- fcnt High Price of Provifions, &c. was to take place ? And at the fame time intimating, that in cafe fuck a proceeding was not intended, he Ihbuld himfelf move for the appointment of a Committee for that purpofe. After waiting fome time for a reply, the Noble Earl addrefred the Houfe again on the fubje& ; he expatiated on its great importance ( pointing ont that it was a queflion which came home to the interefts and feelings of all ranks and nations in Society, particularly the lower, and concluded with moving, verbally, in cleft, That a Com mittee be appointed to inquire into the prefcnt High Prices of Provifions. Before the Clerk could readily commit the fame to writins, The Lazo CHANCELLOR. addrefrad a few ob- fervations to the Noble Earl, but in fu low a tone of voice, that at the diftance firangers are placed, it was impoffible to diftinguifh them. However, as we could obferve, the Motion was not put. The Houfe, which was attended by an enufnal number of Peers, and Commoners (landing behind the Throne, continued for Tome time without any bufinefs being proceeded in; but on the arrival of Lord Doaxtry, the Order of the Day was then read for going into the difettffion of his Motion for an Enquiry into part of the condua of his Ma jelly's Minifters refpeding the mans seat of the War, for which deliberation the Houle had been fummoned, when The Earl of Coat ists rote to entreat the Noble Lord not to infift on bringing forward his Motion at the prefent moment. The general fituation of the country was at the prefent moment critical and • alarming almoll beyond any former example; but it involved in it many circumftances which, if viewed in the light in which he had confidered them, were fufficient to ditruade 'any Noble Lord from preffing a difcuffibn of this nature at the prefent conjunfture. Not only in his opinion might fuel: a dircuftion appear premature ; but what cams more home to his feelings, it might now be deemed ungenerous and unmanly to bring forward. any' charge againft the condult of 'Minifters, while they were placed in a fituation in which it might, be embarraffing to them to enter on their de fence.—Many of them, it was fuppofed, were re tiring from office, and the grounds upon which their withdrawing was accounted for, added con fiderably to the dangers and difficulties to which the intercity and fafety of the empire were ex poled. He more particularly alluded to the quef tion of the Emancipation of the Irifh Roman Catholics, for which the faith of Government had in fame degree been pledged : and this quelli ,ol he could not help regarding as big with the moh• momentous confequences. However, he might lament the deci fi on that had taken place on th is very delicate point, he wiflied that any difculLoa of it might be abflained from for the prefent. He therefore begged leave to appeal to the can. dour and good judgment of the Noble Lord who had given notice of the Motion, and to exprefs hie expe4tation that filch an appeal might induce that Noble Lord to poftpone his Motion to a future day. Lord Doantsr role to explain the motives by which be was aduated on the prefent occalion. He had not taken up the matter lightly, but after , the moll cool and mature inveftigation of tha !late of the country. From that view of the pci‘ ture of public affairs, it appeared to him that the difficulties and embarrafmeats in which the coca. try was now involved were tenfold greater than when he firft formed the refolution d`bringing his Motion before th e Houfe. He was therefore at a . lofs how to aa refpeeting the requefi of the Noble Lord. If he acceded to it, he mull a& contrary to his own conviaion : if he perfifted in it, he might incur fomething like the Imputation of obflinacy : perhaps it might be more advifable to wait the expreffion of the general with of their Lordffiips ; and if that fliould appear to be contrary to his own, he mould doubtlefs feel it incumbent on him not to oppofe his individual opinion to the general leak of the Houfe. Lord Romney joined in the requeft of the Noble Earl (Carlifle), and trolled to the candour of his Noble Friend for his acquiefe.ng in the Tea tons that bad been urged for deferring h is Motion. He felt as deeply as his Noble Friend•the almolt unexampled calamities under which the country laboured, and the abfolutc neceffity of invefliga ting the caufes from which they had arifen. This inveftigation could not well be proceeded upon under the prefent unfettled (tate of the Executive Adminiftration of the country nothing ultimate ly decifive was yet known upon that fubjea ; and this indecifion was among the principal reafons which induced him to deprecate the dtlcutfion of his Noble Friend's motion for the prefent. He only wired for time to, make up his mind upon the fubjea ; to cnter upon fo delicate and difficult a dikuffion without due confideration might be productive of molt unneceffirry and ill-grounded alarm : of the neceffity of it, however, he was fully convinced, and he was now prepared to fay, that it was no (mall addition to the prefent perils and iiirmay of the country to obferve, that in pro portion as its refources were wailed and diminiffi ed, in the fame ratio was it deprived of what talent and ability might have been exerted to wield with cSth the little that remained for extricating the Nation from its orient accumulated calamiues. Earl Ferr—MpLoids, 1141,411 T declared my in tention on Monday fe'nnight, of tupporting the pre fer* motion of enquiry, rhopc that will plead my CICtIA for troubling your Lnrdthips with a Vary few words. The Noble Meyer of it has fupported it viith fo much ability, that he has left me room to fay very little. I have leen too much of en quiries in this and the other Houfe of Parliament, to augur a great deal from this; but much will be gained, if we can prevent in future the wade of the public treafure on fruitlefs expeditions—ex travagant Embattles—and fubfidies to foreign Princes. Was there ever a time in which ,econo my, at home and abroad, was ever more required ? Can any one fay this has been the cafe ? If Peace can be obtained on honourable terms; it mull be the objed of every man's with ; but if that cannot be, I pray GoD, that every honed and honourable man may come forward and gain the confidence of their Country, by laying afide all party differences, and endeavour to extricate us from the date we are now in. My Lords, I have no information but what I hear from the Newfpapers, and if the changes talked of are real, I am confident it will add no credit to the Minifters that retire :—No man ever loved his Majefty more, or had a great• er refped for his Minifters than I had ; but evil advice has got round the Throne of the Exche quer, and changes of the mod alarming nature have of confequence taken place • if it is a trick, no thing could have been Co wickedly advifed, and it it is real, nothing more ludicrous ; and, if it was not in the preterit momentous moment, &mild do. fervedly be laughed at. It really looks to me like a farce. I have often feen on the doge where fo many judges are placed on chairs, and immediate ly they arc twißed round, in which are fet old women, and they fing Why may not old women do u well as old me' —I did, my Lords, on Monday lad, intend to fay a few words, expreffing my congratulations tan the addition to the Houle by the Lords from - Ireland ; but I was fo overcome with the heat, I was obliged to retire. Ido not, my Lords, pre fume to offer any advice to my Noble Brethren, the Peers of Ireland; but from a very long exile- . rience, I may be forgiven for jolt offering th em a hint, that their LordThips would be on their guard, left tome enterprifing Lawyer fhould come from Ireland, and without having an acre of land in any part of the three United Kingdoms, might get into Parliament, cut thole cords that bind the Noble Lords and great landed men together, and when he has thus weakened them by difunion, railed animofities and divifions among them, then come to Downing-ftreet, and bargain for all their confequence and patronage, and leave them fo ftript as not to hare it in their power to recommend the refpeetable character of a Jud e . ,, upon the Bench nor even a low of fi cer of excife.—My Lords, I beg I may not be fuppofed to mean any thing nauonal or particular to Ireland, for nothing 07 that kind has yet taken place; but examples may be found from the Northern part of this country,. without fcarching antienthittory. Lord CARLIS Le role to prevent the idea being entertained by their Lordlhips, that in any thing he had faid to diffuade the Noble Lord from per. fidin o rr in his motion, he could be influenced by any defire to give his countenance and fupport to the new Adminiftration that was about to be formed. Nothing could be more diftant from his intentions and thoughts. On the contrary, he was fenfsble how inadequate it met prove to the arduous talk which it was attempting to under take; and indeed to give any encouragement to the principles upon which the new Miniftcrs were fup pofed to come into power, would be a. bale dere lidion of every duty ie Houfe owed to their King, to their Country, and themfelves. The potent moft alarming fituation of the Empire called for the ableft heads and hands to dire& and ad minifter its affairs ; and could any expedation be rationally entertained of effeding our falvation by tisercertions of fuch a milerable, weak, and rick. etty admini flration as that which was now fuppofed to be undertaking the helm of the State ? Hither to a hope at leaff was held out by the late Admi niftration that fonietlaing would be done in fa vour of the Catholics of Ireland ; to that the na tional honour has been pledged, and if that hope is now to be fuddenly extinguifbed, what can be expeded to enfue but all the horrors and mifchiefs to which men can be inftigated by complete defpair? Lord Gasevitir then rote, a..d fpoke to the following effed s—My Lords, if the queftion were merely whether the Noble Lord fhould this night bring forward or withdraw his motion ? I cer tainly fhould not have offcredmyfelf to your Lard fhips' notice. The fence of the honfe has been un equivocally declared, and to that the Noble Lord has declared h imfelf ready to how. Indeed on occa. lions of this kind, it never has happened that fuch motions have been pert fled in, and I am lure that there can now be no inclinatiop to break through Parliamentary ufage. But, My Lords, from tom e eapre&ons which dropped from thofe who have taken a part in this converfation, I feel myfelf called upon fhortly to addicts you, and to explain to you the fituation in which I now Rand. And let me begin by deprecating all warmth of &Rut fion at thetprefent moment. For GOD'S fake, My Lords, let us be cautious, prudent, and difereet, and let us refrain from every topic which may in flame the public mind, which may add to the vio lence of faction, and increafe the difficulties of the countries. By halty proceedings, by forming an opinion without proper materials, and openly ex preffing it, we may hailer the arrival of thofe evils which we fear, and which we mutt all be fo anxious to avert. For Gon's fake then, My Lords, let your conduit be cool, temperate, and manly. Neither yield to caufelefs dcfpondence, nor agitate queflions upon which you are not yet in a htuation to form a proper judgment,!and the premature dikulfion of which mull be productive of infinite mitchiel. Opportunities wiU yet occur when thefe fubjeCts may be canvitlfed with fafety. A painful duty yet remains for me to fulfill—to 4peak of myfelf. From tiffs I will not &rink, as a due regard to my own cha:ader, as well as becom ing relped to your Lordlhips, call upon me to pro ceed. Some time ago, My Lords, the Noble Lord who now fits near me, (Lord Spencer), another Noble Lord who is not now prefent, but whore abfence is only mentioned by fzverc indifpolition (Lord Cbathani), together }with And fe ecral of his Maj•-•fly's Sei Tants in the Hotq of tommons, thought it expedient that the benefits of the Union fhould be rendered as „great and as extenfive as poffible, by certain difabilities being removed, under which a great portion of the in. l habitants of Ireland now labour. Imagining that this meafure could alone be effeftual if coming from the Executive Government, we felt it our duty to propofe it to thofe who direct his Majefty's Councils. It was not deemed eligible, and we were unable to prevail. Our opinion of its policy remaining unaltered, ftill thinking that that, and that alone could eftablilh the tranquillity and prof perky of the Empire on a permanent bafis, we eonfidered ourfelves as bound to retire. Accord ingly we tendered to his Majefty the refignation of our leveret employments, and he has been gra cioufly pleated to difpcnfe with our fervices.— Thus, My Lords, we only hold our offices till our fucceffors are appointed. My Lords, it is impollible for me to fit down without expreffing the gratitude I feel for the in dulgence, confidence, and fupport I have expe rienced during the long and eventful period' have had a (hare in his Majefty's Councils. I have had to Verve a kind and indulgent Killer. He has fi:irmly treated me with attention while I have Lori in his fervice; and his acceptance of my re. -fignation he accompanied with the moll Battering irks of regard. This conduct has made a deep and laying imprellion on my heart. My boron) is filled with fenfations of refpeet, gratitude, and attachment, which I feel unable to exprefs. My obligations to your torditips are equally deep, and I hope I am equally fenfible of them. You have long continued to view my conduet with approbation, and to honour me with your confi dence. This goodnefs I cannot claim to f-ave de. ferved. My abilities I have exerted to the utmoft in the fervice of my country; but to abilities I do not pretend. My intentions alone I can boaft; to thefe I may perhaps fay I have added diligence, patience, perfeverance, and vigour. The period' during which I and my colleagues have been in office, has been critical beyond example, and the country has been threatened with greater dangers than any to which it had before been candid. — The Conftitution, however, is (till entire, and the nation continues independent and powerful ; while many of thofe around it have been firipped of every thing that is valuable, and reduced to the molt abjeft fervitude. May we hope that our fer vices have contributed to the cfcape which this country has made from the evils that threatened it. It is our confolation to relied that the fame vigorous line of conduit will kill be purfued Though we have retired from office, no change of meafures will take place, but the fyftem which has already proved fo falutary will continue to be aged upon by our fucceffors. Thopgh we mat differ from them in Tome points, in molt there is no difference between us ; and while they continuel to ail in a firm, refolute, and manly manner, they (ball have our fteady fupport. Our molt anxious with is (and though I exprefs it loft, it is neareft to my heart), that they may receive from your Lordfhips and the Public the fame fupport which we have experienced. Divifion, indocifion, timi-i dity, and defpondence mull, at the prefent me. -+ ment, be ruin. It is only by unanimity and firm- 1 nefs that the country can be Caved. Lord MoixA aso expreffed his anxious with ;that the Noble Lord might be prevailed upon to poftpone his Motion. While, however, he ex preffed this with, he was ready to pay every tribute *of praife to the zeal and good intentions of the Noble Lord. Indeed thefe intentions were already in a great meafure anfwcred by the ftrong fenfe which fo large a roiling of the Houfe fcemed to feel of the abfolute necellity of an inquiry into the caufes of the increafed and increafing dangers of the country. That fenfe was unequivocally ex preffed, and no doubt would have its due weight and force where it was intended to operate. lie was indeed fatisfied that it mull make a very fe rious impreffion on the mind of his Majelly, and of the country at large ; and as the ohs& of the Noble Lord's Motion would thereby be in a gr eat degree accomplifhed, he trolled it might be de lotted for the prefent, on account of the other ob jedions to which it appeared to be liable. Earlpreacset robe merely to afore their Lord- Sips, that he molt cordially and completely ac quiefced in the affurances that had been made by his Noble Friend near him (L or d Grenville). His Noble Friend had fully explained the reafons by which he was induced to refign the place which be had held in his Majefly's Councils, and the in tention by which he was actuated, of continuing his fupport of the general fyftem that was to be adopted by his fucccffors. Candour, he thought, called Ow him for this declaration; and as it had already been fo ably expreffed by his Noble Friend, he fhould not attempt laying any thing *tore in addition to it. Lord Dals/try laid, It was not without much (mane'reha that he could daft from pre ffing his at the prefent moment, fo thoroughly was I Se convinced of its propriety and urgent neceflity. As, however, he had in the outlet confeffod his readinefs to poftpone it, if fuch &mild appear to be the general with of the Houk, he would now confent to do In, as he perceived that with to be very ftronglyexpreffed. He could not, however, Content to withdraw it altogether, though he was Willing to defer it for a few days. if therefore illy Noble Lord would rife up and fay when it might be convenient, fate, refpediul, and proper to bring it forward, be would pledge liiinfelf to be ready at that time. No Noble Lord having rifen to give any opi nion as to the day, Lord D proceeded to give notice, that he fhould bring forward his Motion onWednefday th t tBth Ou the fuggeftion however of Lord Citeayssts, it was further pofiponed till Friday the sods, for which day their Lordthips were or dered to be lummoned, CALL 6r THE MOUSE. After Lord Detests- had withdrawn his motion, The Earl of R &alma role ; and having obferved that at the prefent awful nil's, the Houfe could not be too fully attended, when the Noble Sarl's motion was brought forward, he moved, That the Houle l c called over on Kid ay the aoth. • '; Lord Gass:vit. begged leave to hint to his No. ble Friend, that it was very unufual to move a Call of that Houle, unlets in particular cafes, fuch as the Trial of a Peer, &c. ; that therefore he hoped his Noble Friend would notperfill in a motioncalculatvd to create alarm and difmay throughout the cou ntry. Lord RADNOR faid, it was neither irregular no r unprecedented to call over the Houfe ; and t h at the tole queftion was, Whether it was unfit or not, that every means fhould be retorted to, in order to convene a full attendance at a period fo uncom• monly awful and critical to the country I Lord Mutoaava rote to exprefs his earneft and anxious wifhes, that the Noble Earl might Rill be prevailed on to withdraw his motion, fine it tended to throw an air of greaterfolemnity on the occafio n than it required. His Lordfhip pointed out tl.t. bad confequences of unneceffarily alarming public mind, and fuggefted the great probabilir v of the Houfe being very fully attended without a:, ) , Call being ordered, as there could not be an indi vidual Peer, who could with any fort of convcni. ence attend the Houfe, who would be abfent under circumftances fo estremely interefting to the pub. lic ; but much as he lamented the great lots of talent the country had fuftained, be thought it could anfwer no beneficial purpofe to throa t a greater air of awfulnefs and folemnity upon it than appeared to him to be neccary. Lord Hot-LAND rote immediately to recomm en d it to the Noble Earl to perfift in his motion for a Call of the Houfe, which he contended was abto lutely Peccary. The fituation into which the inca pacity of his Majefty's Minifters, and their repeated errors, had brought the country, could not be treated with too much ferionfnefs and folemnity. He faid, that the dfnufal of /be Matifleri war not it. fey as eve!, inafinuch as more miferable and inca. gable men as Statetmen could not fucceed or Ray behind them ; but that the mode of their going out, and hill more the caufe affignedforit,added to the embarraffment of the country, and encreafed the neceffity of enquiry. That their difmilial, had it been on the lots of confidence in Parlia ment, or if it entailed the change of meafures and Allem, would have been a great bleffing indeed; but, on the contrary, they teemed to be the vic tims of that fyitem to which they had fo long proftituted their talents, and under the influence of that fatlion which condoled and fioorted the American aver, which war the fovea of all our ado rides, and which bad no tijfirslin and no mercy for any one who hefitated in the career of fervility. The firh moment that they hefitated they were difcarded. The moment that they who had fa. crificed to the fadion the happinefs, comfort, and tranquility of Ireland teemed difpofed to grant a boon, or to make a conceffion to the People, the very femblance of liberty, the late return to the mere appearance of virtue in one folitary inftance cancelled all obligation, and railed the indigna tion of this narrow-minded, this cruel, this bi gotted, and this eleftrueive policy : reiterant tempera lone servta And they were ditmiffed with the fame horn and contempt as all others had been, whofe principles . or whofe meafures were for one moment hoftile to that deteftable faftion. But the occafion of their &finial added an additional motive to enquiry, and one more calamity -to the county by endan gering the tranquillity of Ireland. For that rm• fon he fu ported the Call. Lord RADNOR again Rated, that he could not content to give up his Motion, which he was con viac'ed was effentially neceffary. The Eatl of Ciaaa faid, be rote to join his No. ble Friend (Lord Grenville) in deprecating the idea of a Call, as well as a premature difcuflion of a fubjee which had been more than once alluded to, and which was of fo extremely delicate a nature, and at the fame time of inch magnitude, det it ought not even to be alluded to, before it came regularly under confideration. With regard to the Call of the Houle, it was fo unufual, that there was not a precedent for its having been ever retorted to, except only in the cafe of the trial of.a Peer; and if it were now to be infifted on, mull be coupled with a meafure which would require it to be delayed to a much later day than Friday the sods, namely, the ordering of circu lar letters to be written and fent to every Peer, defiring his attendance on his duty in that Houle. That meafure, his Lordfhip faid, bad always ac• companied a Motion for a Call of the Houle, and ought ever to be coupled with it. At recta it was indifpenfably neceftary, as feveral Noble Lords were at a confiderable diftance, in differ ent parts of the United Kingd om . With regard to what bad been called Catholic Emancipation, before that delicate fubjeCt were brought under ditcuffion, he would advife Noble Lords to take advantage of the Union that had recently taken place, and make life of the opportunity it pre tented of enabling theta to make themfelves well informed of the nature and rharaCter of Ireland, with which they teemed, as yet, to be but !lightly acquainted. A greater heap of combuftibles than Ireland confifted of could not be found. Catholic Emancipation had already been found to mean rebellion in that country. In fee, ninety-tne Roman Catholics out of a. hundred did not care a tingle jot about it. Others underltood it to mean the abolition of tythes, and a more equal divificm of property. The Irifb peafant, for inftance, con ceived that when that was granted, every oar of them was to have his tythes taken off, and a grant of ten acres of land allotted him. In thort, fo various were their opinions upon that great qiieftion, and fo violent were their paflions, that he could not but deprecate the premature feat tering of loofe infinuations upon the fubjee among them, and thus rattily and inconftderately lighting up a flame which nothing but mere deluges et blood could poffibly extinguifh. His Lorslfliip fai.ft the Noble Earl who had urft introduced the men tion of the Emancipation of the Catholics of Ire' Land (Lord Carlifle,) had been long enoughtq that kingdom to know the abundant danger of inflam ing the minds of thelrdh, prernatortlyperfoad ing them that Catholic Emancipation was about to - be granted to them. With regard to the Call of the Houfe, Lord Clare (aid, if no other Peer would, he would take the fiat of the Houk sena { S _1