Star. — London, England, 1802-12-14 00:00:00

tome tints firft principles. tt was' n, ani acknowledged by the Hon. Mem: the Continental Powers could not do 3ritifh rrilmtfatittres. It was obvious, iati: , n mot h. the confequence of peace; eta mull follow population ; aud.that ty, as the bell market in Europe, .mutt At demand. 'Room exprefTed his high approbation of genv.:nts tn.ide by the Right Hon. the )r of the Exchecrter, with regard to Et ',ills, as well as with the general and flat tement he had made •of the flourithing races of the country. ‘riSITTART Paid a few words in fupport of cellor of the Exchequer's explanation.. :folution of the Committee was then put ied Imo. con. ELKTION PETITIONS. HANCELLOR. of the I:XI:NEVER rofc, in 'e of the notice he had given on a former move tor potiponing the contideration of ral Eleaion Petitions prcfented to the and already appointed to be taken into ition antecedent to the end of ll;:cemlyzr, er the recefg. It WAS his purpof.., he laid, by potlponing the confideration of the fird Petitions to the Bth of February, and he ,e H ince would have no objetion to thole ng appointed for the eleLclion of Commit mcly, Tuefdays and Thuedays in each e week, to take two Petitions into confi i infiead of one, in order that the whole e gone through in the conrfe of the letTion. was lure was the with and intention of the and, therefore, he hoped that upon thofe to appointed for the feleetion ofCommirtees, e upon the merits of thole Petitions, if there not be a due attendance of Members, the would fupport its own authority, and em e means in its power to enforce a full at : te. It was a duty, in jultice ' due to thofe ters who had appealed to the Houfe, as well thers whole returns might be unjudly im- I, to vindicate them from falfe imputations. chided by moving, That the confiders the Petition complaining of an undue Elec . Great Grimfby, which hood for Dec. 8, be ted till the Bth of February. I Tsmrut thought it right that the Right ;entleman, before he propofed an arrange .° extremely hard upon Petitioners,.fiiiould, , date tome reafons for fo doing. Cismscatame of the Eyes; cozy litt laid, that goble Lord had been in his place on the for • ght, when he apprifed the Houfe of his in is on the fubjetl, he would have known that tires wore, the pretfitre of more urgent bu xfore the recefs I which was , in faa, the onfideration that Mould induce the Houfe to to the meafure. SPIAILSIL dated, that the ufual order of :ding, in former Parliaments, on fimilar cons, was Ertl to move to difcharge all the fuccefEvely, for taking the feveral Peti into confideratipp as already appointed, and acevet9 appoint the new days for each Petition. accedence to this fuggeftion, the oilier for the kirmerly appointed were dikharged, and the ms ordered for the days following, viz. krtnline and Shaftefbury, on Turfday, Ftb 8. ity College, Dublin, and borough of Great Grimly, on lay, Feb. to it of Nottingham, and Borough of Barnftaple, Tuelday, of Coventry, and Borough of Bridgejrater, Thurfday mgh of Kirkcudbright, and ----o—.,Tuefday, Feb. 21. wet of Inuernefs, and Borough o : Liiktard. Thurfday, • • r of Waterford and City of Drogheda, and County of )on Turfday, March t. nigh of Penryit, and Stranraer, on Thurfday, March s. pperihani, and Carrinarthen.'forfday„ March idler, and haft Grin(tead, Thurfday, March to how, and Oakbampton. Turfday, March is. rwich, and Berwick upon T red, Thurfday, March t unton, and Bolton, fuelday, March as. dindlniry, and stirling, Toefday, March 24. =triter, and Bilhop's Cattle, Teefday, March dham, and Fait Bedard, Thurfday, March 3t. weaftle unties Line, and Radnor county,' furfday, April 5. neon on Hull, and Leominfier, Thurfday, April t 4. leihury, and Middlrten, Turfday, April sp. ilde4 and Hannon, Tburfday, April st. - iftefitury, the.Pctitton again it Edward Loco la& Louden, Eucklay, April a 6. _ lELDDLIIIILI PETITION. it CHARLES 13ASEPTTLDI moved the Order of Day for refuming the Adjourned Debate, upon (t!_.tellion for receiving a Petition from certain he Eleaors of the County of Middlefex, win ning of certain ilkgal and corrupt prailites, undue influence, on the part of Mr. Mainwar , one of the Candidates for the faid.C.ounty, on late General Elation ; and praying, that the Mr. filainwaring might not be returned to lit 'arliaiftent, as one of the Reprefentatives for faid inty, in confequence of any decifion, upon any er Petition touching faid Elation now pending. 4T.SrliAltElt, pro forma, Rated the eircurriliances Adjournment, and laid, it would he regular t the Petition, together with the Adis ot Par nent for regulating the Proceedings on Con:.-o ted Ele&ions, be read, or entered as read, which er being done, • Kr. TIERNEY far io (Lite his opinion why the ition ought to be received. The circumilince s certainly an extraordinary one ; and fuck as. Hoofe had been rarely, if evercalled on to de-t e ; for his own part, he walled to deliver a Icild opinion * to the belt of his 'lodgment, unbi• id by any partiality to, either iide of the quer n. If the Hoofe felt anyveluaance to entertain : petition, he was fuic it arofe from no indifpori. n to vender aria jutlice to the parties, but from i : difficulty of acing upon 'a cafe miaow any ecife precedent. The bill of Mr. Grenville laid vin no precifeinflruftion for the Houle to as ; hill, he conceived the Houfe authorized so it 4 wonted difcretion, where the law was filetitt ion a matter, certainly of importance to the ;lits of Eleaors. He profeffed for one, that lie ,uld not fee what objeft the petitioners had in ew. It was to be fore - ffible, but he beli eved .1 ~~+•+~ Sir Francis Burdett might ,die. before. the .canter was concluded, in which cafe, the • Committee would be obliged to return Mr. Mainwaring as duly elected, notwitlillandifig the many charges againll-him of difqualifying circumstances. He was fore the Houfe mull feel, in fuch a cafe, the hardihip of the Elettors, in having a Reprefenta nye thrull• upon them, in fpite of their complaints of fuch &qualification ; nor did he fuppote it would be very agreeable for that Houfe to have a Member obtruded upon them, who could find his way thither by fuch improper means. If any Gentleman objected to the reception of this peti tion now, upon the ground that it would come time enough after the Committee had decided, he would afk, did the Houfe with to put itfelf in the predicament of having Counfel and tvidence at their bar again!' the decilion of the Committee, which would declare Mr. Mainwaring duly. eleCt-• ed without having the charges in this petition re• ferred to their confideration ? If, on the other hand, Sir Francis Burdett should not chufe to fol low up the context and defend his eledlion, under the operation of Mr. Grenville's Bill, Mr. Main- Waring would_ be declared 'duly eleCted. The EleCtors would of. courfe fay, a Reprelentative was foisted on them, whom they did not chufe ; would they then be at liberty to petition the Houfe, on the ground of informality, and claim a new elec tion ? Certainly not, under the bill of Mr. Gren ville. Considering the matter in there points of view, he faw many very deprecable confeitiences which might refult from rejedling the petition, but no inconvenience whatever from receiving it, whe ther it ought or ought not to be received. The circumstances which gave rift to it, left an obvious neceffity for a new Adt of Parliament. But the Houle was bound, and he was lure would not re fufe to do that which was neceffary for the ftridt ends of jutlice rand however bound by the letter of Mr. Grenville's Act, he was confident they would refute no reafonable attention to this peti tion, if the impediments were not too ftrong to be got over. Indeed, he could not Conceive that the fpirit of Mr. Grenville's bill, though it omitted to fpecify a mode of proceeding in cafes of this na tare, ever could have meant to preclude it from remedy, or to prevent the Houle from exereifing the diteretion in its own hands. It never intended tp change the old and eflablithed laws and ufages of Parliament, or to alter the nature of tie queflion to be tried, but only to modify the proceedings therein. The bill goes to difqualify, not only per. fons guilty of bribery, from gaining a feat in that Houle, but thofe endeavouring fo to do, and will not therefore admit a perfon againa whom fuch charges wcie made, without giving' the petitioners an opportunity of being heard. The only cafe he found, in. the precedents he had fought, to bear up on this, was the Lyme cafe, in the year 1727; which was almott exactly fimilar to the prefent, and there not the fmallelt doubt appeared in the Houfe on the propriety of reErring the petition to a Committee. This was the old ufage, and for his own part, he was ready to vote for its adoption upon the cleareft convidtion of its rectitude. The MASTER "F THE ROLLS faid, that undoubt edly there could be no with, on either fide of the Houle, to come to any decilion in this cafe, but Inch as accorded with the fentiments Gentlemen entertained of the law upon it. For his own part he knew of no Precedent to warrant the Houle in entertaining this Petition, nrreferring it to a Com mittee ; for it •was a Petition not complaining of the undue Eledlion of any Member, itor was it referrable in any way to the eledtion of any Mem ber whole return had been complained of ; fo that whether the Houle should allow it to lie on the table or not, they could not in law ground any proceeding whatever upon it. The •Bill of Mr. Grenville was one which went to regulate the jo rifdidlion of the Houk, and dire& its proceedings upon contelted Elections ; and therefore difcre• tionary power was out of the queflion, where the Itatute imperatively prefcribed the precife mock of proceeding. Every thing was excluded which it did not include. Every power was withheld which it did not grant : and if by that (Leine the feveral kinds of Petitions were fpecifically limited, who Ihould fay that Petitions of a different kind ought to be received ? To no one of the admitlible delcription of Petitions was this fimilar. The Bill took away all difcretion from the Houle. In departing from the letter of the law, and indul ging a latitude of contlration, there would be no , end to the abufes which might obtain. Convinced, therefore, that the Adt of Mr. Grenville was de cifive on the cafe, be flionlit vote againfl receiving the Petition. The Petitioners had, if they chafe, an opportunity of proceeding in another manner, by tendering evidence before the Committee.' He cited a number of cafes in illuaration of his argu ment, and concluded by declaring his firm opi. • mon that the Petition ought to be rejected. 1 The SPEAKER then informed the Houfe, that there was another Petition from certain other Eledtors of the County of Middle ex, in the fame circurnttances as the lalt ; and on the quettion that the lathe be withdrawn, Mr. TIERNEY faid, that notwithttanding what had been fo ably (lated by the Honourable and Learned Gentleman, he thought the mode he had pointed out for the proceeding of the Committee, was one that would certainly put the parties, and particularly Mr. Mainwaring, to a very great ad ditional expence, by making him go over the fame ground twice, which expence would be avoided, were the prefent Petitions allowed to be fent to the &led Committee, as he had propofed, and which he gill continued to'think would be the heft me i thod to adopt,in order tofurther the ends of juttice. The Mast -e OF vita Roens, in explanation, faid, that he admitted the expence would be much greater, but that could not be avoided, as the law was fo exprefs on the fithje6l, that the Petition ought by no means to be admitted to Ay in the face of it. Mr. ST. JOH K, WWI& ,he admitted the doctrine of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman who fpoke WI, could not but agree with what had been ad. lc. to provide apinks-WAr.gircumilsoce curring in future. • • . '• - - ,Lord GLENBERviz faid, that, in his opinion, the Committee had full. povier .to" determine on the .whole cafe of the Petitioner. He thought the Or- I red Way would be, to make the Petitioner go through with the whole cafe, and then 'to put the Sitting Member CO defending his feat ; after which the Committee, in faying`that the fitting Member was not duly eleded, would with great propriety, proceed to lute that the Petitioner was emitted to his feat, as the perfon next on the poll. By the t3th Sedion, each Member is fwoin to try the merits of the Return and Eledion, and (hall fay, whether the Petitioner or the Sitting Member are duly eluded ? From this his Lordfliip contended, that the Committee would certainly do right in determining' the whole cafe when it came before them, as by another Sedion in the Ad they were empowered.to fend for perfons, papers, &c. and thereby to put themfelves in potreffion of all the neceffary information, to enable them to come to a I full, fair, and competent invelligation of the lubjed..l Mr. TIERNEY) in explanation, faid', he never meant to deny what. the Noble Lord had juft Elated, but as the law now flood, he alloWed the Com mittee had fall powers to fend for perfons, papers, &c. but thea he conten.led they did not know who to lend for.—The Petition, with the leave of the Houle, was then withdrawn. A fimilar Petition, under the fame circum (lances, from certain hledors of the county of Hereford, was alto permitted to be withdrawn. ABUSES IN THE NAVY. Captain MARKHAM role, in purfuance of the 'I notice he had given on a former night, to move for leave to briar , in a Bill relative to certain abides in the Naval Department. He faid, that before he made his Motion, he wilhcd to inform the Houle that ithad come to his eats, there were certain re ports gone abroad, that the objt.6t of the Board of Admiralty, in bringing forward the Bill he had to propole, was to throw blame on the late Ad miniaration, for not having brought it in comer. This was, he raid, a molt falfe and ablurd idea. — He allured the Houle, that he, and thole with whom he acted, had the. highelt opinion of thole Who preceded them, and efpecially'of the Noble Ltird who filled the first place at that Board with fuch dillinguithed honour to himfelf, and fuch eminent advantage to the public fervice. In the 25th of his Majesty, an At paired to examine into I the abufes of Offices, and for the better manage ing and concluding the bufinefs thereof. The Bill in quellion, he laid, would only go to a part of that Ad ; it would be confined folely to our naval department—to all that depends on the Navy, and nothing elle. He moved that the 31ft Report of the Finance Committee be read, (which being done) he faid, it was t t i pledge to the Public, that the Board err Admiralty, after the return of peace, fhodld enquire into thole abufes. That Board, however, could not un dertake the matter themfelves, hecaufe they had already fufficient bufinefs on their hands to occupy their time entirely; and this matter would require a very laborious invelligation. Nor indeed could the Board perform it if they would, as they have not the power to adminifter an oath. He had been with the prefent First Lord of the Admiralty in his late vifitation to the feveral Dock Yards of the Kin'gdom ; and they had witneffecl fuch fcenes of plunder and peculation, as convinced them fuch a Commitlion as the prefent Bill would pro 'vide, could not too foon be inaitutcd. He there fore moved for leave to bring in a Bill for appoint• ingCommiffioners to enquire and examine into any irregularities, frauds, and abufcs, that may have been lately pradifed by any perfons conneded with the Civil Departments of the Navy therein .mentioned, and into the bufinefs of Prize Agents, And to report fuch obfervations as occur to them for preventing fuch abufes in future." On the mo tion being read from the Chair, Lord TEMPLE aid, he thought the Hon. Gen• tleman ought to have given fome reafons, why the I Houfe iliould give thole powers to the Admiralty which were already vetted in the Navy Board. 'Die Hon. Gentleman had talked of the late vi'fitation to the Dockyards; he believed it had been a vifita tion indeed; but of all thofe numerous peculations that had been difeovered, he thought the Hon. Gentleman fhould at leaft have laid fome of them before the Houle, ere he had moved to bring in a Bill .of this tendency and importance, which goes to vest perfons with powers already in the hands of others, who were, in his mind, fully adequate to anfwer all die purpofes for which this Commillion was intended, and which would give additional powers to the Admiralty. Lord Haw ictsatixy laid, the Noble Lord had certainly miflaken the whole of the Motion made by his Hon. Friend. It did not give any addi tional powers whatever to the Admiralty. It was confined entirely to two points:—the first was, that the Board of Admiralty had already fo much bu finefs of the higlieft urgency and importance on their hands, that they could' not find time to make the necelfary enquities into the numerous abufes which citified in the various departments of the Navy :—the fecund point was, that by this Bill powers lhould be given to certain perfons to exa mine upon oath, which the Admiralty could not do, in order to their being in future afcertained and prevented ; and in his mind it would look very extraordinary indeed, if Minillers were to come down to the Houfe, and fet their faces -against a Commiffion to enquire into abufes. Admiral BERKELEY faid, he thought the Ad miralty already were in fume meafure poffeffed of that power which they want to vet in Commif (loners, and can order the Navy Board . to call for papers and perfons to examine on oath. He did not mean to oppofe the prefent Bill; that part Which related to Prize Agents met with his hearty approbation and concurrence. He only doubted Whether the Admiralty did not at prefent poffefs the right they .wanted to devolve on others. Mr. GAKTHSHOLE faid a few words in favour of the Bill. . • . fitlerable nneatiners , partmcnt had Brea, partments of Gov e: at the head of it was tiality and favorifm, Influence to appoint , atfy to Ru lia. This Bill, he laid, would firengthen that confidence which Minitlers had already to dil= tin uillr:ail} poll - eff;:d themselves of, for having ter irinated ruccekfully a difallrou; war, and fince fo managed our finances as to prove them to be in the nioq prosperous and enviable hate ; a confidence ixhich on all accounts they fo highly merited. : Capt. YORKE defended the principle of the Bill. L--He laid its proviflons would he highly advan tageous to the interefis of the navy and the public. The Admiralty, at prefent, had no power to exa mine into Priae Agency. One part of the Hon., Gentleman's obfcrvations furprifed him much When the French Government were fending Ge nerals as A.mbaiftdors to every Court in Europe, he, could fee no objcEtion, founded in rcafon, why we might not fend an Admiral. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEOZTER faid, that it .was not his intention to, have Laid a word on the fobjeEt, but , for fome obfervations of the Hon. Gentleman who fpoke kit but one, and which were delivered in fuch a tone and manner, that notwiihilanding all his confidence in Minifiers, he could not pafs by unnoticed. He had heard, for the firft time, that the Noble Lord at the bead of the Admiralty had been a6luated by a principle of favoritifm. Nothing, he believed, could be further from that Noble Lord's charaEter. The Honourable Gentleman had alfo mentioned the domineering influence of the Admiralty over the other departments of Government. He could Afore the Houle, that nothing could be more groundlels than fuch a charge, and that the Ad miralty had no communication whatever, as thi the appointment of the brave and gallant Admiral to the ernbaify alluded to by the Hon. Gentleman. It originated in the choice and feleEtion which cha raEterifed thole perfons in whole department it lay. Had the Hon. Gentleman known Sir John Warren, he would have known that there is no man living pollard of more ardent zeal for - the intereas of his country, more urfoltmifhed honour,. or more unimpeachable integrity ; of more en lightened talents, or more capable of executing that high and important oflice. He juftified the late proceedings of the Board of Admiralty ; and. laid, that further enquiries would take place into the caufes of thole abufes. It was true, the Navy Board, as a Noble Lord had faid, have the power to adminifter an oath, but not to order the pro duElion *of documents; but if they had thole powers, the Houle might choole to delegate them to a Commiffion, and he thought a Parliamentary Gornmiflion the hell inffrument that could be ufed for the put pole. Sir A. HAM MOND faid, he heartily approved the Bill. He paid a very handfome compliment to the Navy Board, which, he laid, was compofed of perfons of the firft charaEter for integrity and zeal, and who would be happy to clear up all reports spread concerning them. He doubted not but the Gentlemen appointed by the Commiffion would be found competent to the talk. 6, The Motion was then put and agree d to. Captain MARK He m then brought up the faid Bill, which was read afirft time, and ordered to be read a fecond time to-morrow. SUPPLY. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that the Houle fhould refolve itfelf into a Commit tee of Supply, and that the feveral accounts pre. tinted by Mr. Eilcourt, Mr. Vanfittart, Sir Evaia Nepean, and Mr. Irvine, he referred to ir. The Houle having refolved itfell accordingly : The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQSTER moved the following refolutions, whic% were feverally put and agreed to : That a fum of 1,5c0,0001. he grantest to his Majefty, to pay off and dife.liarge Exchequer Bills to that amo nt, iffued under an .A ft of Litt Seffion. • To make good fo much paid out of the Confolidated Fund, for Bounties on Corn, 524,5731. For Bilii that have been, or may be drawn for New South Wales for the year 1803, 25,0001. For expences of Convidts for 1803, 4 0,87 4 1. For the fuffering Clergy and Laity of France, and American Loyalifts, 191,58 4 1. For the Ordinary of the Navy, and Half Pay Officers, 1,238,0001. For repairs of {hips, 901,0001. For pritoners of w. r for 1803. 22,0001. For lick prifomr: of war, 2 5 ,0001. Upon moving the refolution for the fuffering Clergy of France, he laid that it was higher this year than was expeded; but he expeded that there would be a great reduaion under that head next year. He then moved the following fums to make good advances from the Civil Litt, in purfuance of Addrelfes of the Houle : Paid to Charles Beaumont, on account of convias, To John Kidg, Secretary to Contraets, 3001. To 'George Baldwin, 10864 To Wm. Chinnery, 22 4 1. To T. Brodie, for making an index to*the Journals, 14591. To Lord Walfingham, as Chairman of Committees in the Houle of Lords, 27011. 'l'o Thomas Wilton, for his attendance. upon the Port of London Committee, 160. Smith, 5001. To Bernard Cabe, for Clerks, 71341. To the fame, fur Bills, 3ccol. Thefe refolutions being agreed to, the report was ordered to be received to-morrow, and the Corn. mittee wiis deferred till Wcdnefday. The CHANCELLOR of the ExcitEQUER gave no tice to the Committee, that at an early period after the recefs he iliould bring forward a propo. fition to prevent the acciwnulation of the Civil Lift Debts. Mr. VANSITTART moved, that the Aft of the 12th of Anne be read, with a view to move that a Committee be appointed to take into confident tion to morrow fo Jmuch of the laid Aa as prohi. bits the importation of ma!t from Ii eland. The motion being agreed to, and the Committee ap pointed accordingly, he moved, that it be an in- Ilruaion to the fail Committee to contid;:r of all Afi's relative to the importation and exportation of 'malt between England and Ireland. A. 1.11, 1Q t r • . ' •-•• . 4. • • r ' A,..1, --..•' 7'; .114 7 1 in• - r: 4 ! :rnm as • . . a auated by;a4frof 111 ` 3, and that that depatypent had A an Admiral to the Tate Em•-• ~~~ 1 O• ' .~