Star. — London, England, 1815-03-07 00:00:00

, t) Lion, said he was nut sorry that it gavehim2nwpor utility of expressing his opinion that the Bin kens ex treme/y injurious, and to condemn the precipit anc y with which it had been forwarded, which looked as if its promoters were unwilling to • hear the opinions of the people. Mr. WHITBREAD brought up several petitions. Mr. YORKE, on presenting a petition in favour of the Bill, front the Owners of Land in the Fens of Lincolnshire, observed, that it was easy to obtain sig natures to petitions against the measure, but he would not admit that these petitions contained the real sense of the people. If petitions could be obtained from those who could foresee the very distressed state of agriculture, they would shew that there was not the great unanimity of opinion that had been intimated. Those who had signed the petition he now held in his hand, were the owners of three or four hundred thousand acres of land, which had been redeemed from the water, under the protection of Parliament ; but which would now become useless unless 611C011- raged by the Bill before the House. Mr. BARING maintained, that the 'agricultural labourers, and even the tenantry, had no interest in this question—(Crier of No, no). —Their opinion was that the evil lay in the high rents alone, and that if the Bill did not pass, the proprietors of the land must let them cheaper. It was an absurdity to say, that the labourer had any interest in the question. — It any persons, however, had mote claims than others for the interference of Parliament, they certainly were those who had reclaimed waste lands, and brought them into tertility.—(Near, hear). The Honourable Gentleman then adverted to the evidence of certain persons, to thew that 80s. was a price not necessary ice the protection of lands so reclaimed. Mr. hIETHUEN begged to assure the House, that the petitions ire had presented this day were not signed by manufacturers alone, but that they con tained the names of matey laud-owners, who were convinced of the injurious tendency of the measure. A Petition from the Owners of Land in the Bed ford Levcl, to the amouot of 91 1 000 acres, in favour of the Bib, was presented, and ordered to lie on the table. Mr. HOME SUMNER presented a petition from the Inhabitants of Cioysion against the Bill, and ob served, that as he had already brought up one from the same place of a different tendency, he could not but regret that while he performed his duty, he should have to differ in his own opinion from any portion of his constituents. Mr. CALCRA FT presented a petition from the inhabitants of Rochester, signed by b7OO names.— The Hon. Gentleman declared he fully concurred in the prayer ot die petition, and hoped the House Would even now feud it necessary to pause in their precipitancy. Mr. M. A. TAYLOR presented a petition against the Bill from Poole, which, he said,'was numerously signed ; not by manufacturers, for there were no per sons ot this description in the town, but by merchants and others, many of whom were copsiderable land holders. He trusted, that if the House should agree to the Bill, the people would sit down quietly under it ; but, for his own part, he would give it lot utmost Opposition. The same Hon. Member gave 11** of a motion for the 16th of March relative to Wills; and also of another, soon after the Recess, for a Bill to. abolish punishment of the Pillory. Lotto casr The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUE4 moved that the Howie should resolve itself into a C.mmittee on the Bill for amending the Corn Laws. Mr. WHIT iiREA D did not rise to object to the Speaker's leaving the Chair, but there were other orders of the day cia which he wished to obtain some information. He desired to know. it the diaeusaion on the Corn Bill should last long, how it was intend. ed to dispose of the question on the renewal of the Dank Reatrktion Act ? And he desired particularly to know what the Noble Lord opposite (Lord Pal. merstone) meant to do iu that case with the Mutiny ? While he Was on his legs. seeing the. Noble Lord in the blue ribbon (Lord Castlereagh) in his place, he wished to auk if the time tor making those disclosures which had been called for, but withheld in his absence, was at hand, and if they might soon expect him to come down with a message from the Prince Regent on the subject of his late important rni41011? Lord CASTLEREAGH said he should be happy to give the Hon. Gentleman every information in his power, but at present he was not able to intimate to .him when any communication on the subject referred to was likely to be made from the Prince Regent.— When he. should know such a message was to be brought down, he would not fail to give due no tice of it. If, before this was done, the Honourable Gentleman should wish to obtain information on any particular point, he thought it would be best that he should raise some questionoetbat after some days had elapsed, he should call for that which he thought necessary. The Hon. Gentleman would certainty understand that, under present circum stances, the explanations which he (Lord Castle reagh) could give, would be in many respects limit ed. If, however, the Hou. Gentleman called for any information which he might consider desirable, it would enable him (Lord Castlereagh) to state what discloeurei be could make without injury to the pub lic service. A; present he could only say, though the proceedings were not closed, yet much had been done ; and it was important to add, that what was done, had been don; with the general concurrence of all the great Powers, who had made every arrange . meet for upholding those decisions which bad been dir.tated by the common interest of all. All the great poims in which this country was especially concerned j le d been met by all the Powers in a spirit of peace and arranged perfectly to his satisfaction, and he hoped in a manner that would prove satisfactory to the House.--(Heart hear.) • gr. WHITBREAD thoughtthe Noble Lord might have misunderstood the intent of his question. ,he had asked if he did not propose to give some i n . formation to the House I—tor whatever the Noble • Lord might have been told by hie colleagues; he (Mrs Whitbread) did think the time was come %Olsen wpm inks:medal-MI& to be given from th e p e l sco .l ke fro* Of Noble Lord in 'without being ;AM fee. . *rots ihe answer be had received, he • pow ba4ljr believe the Noble• Lord was the man lobo lad bon at •Visavia, for 'what lied talk from . . .• him was but a consmultion 071,111 t systestrarevasiou 'which had been practised in his absenata4 bation.)—it would be most satisfactory tishe ila tre that the information to be given should come Ipso taneoudy from the Noble Lord ; bat if no owns nication was to be Glade to that House before the Eribter holidays, he would certainly move which he thought necessary. He repeated,howevar, that it would be best that the Noble Lord should give what he thought himself at liberty to offer, and it would then be for the House to determine whether or not that was sufficiently ample and sgols- factory. Lord CASTLEItEAGH replied, whatever com munications the Crown might have to make, would be made at the proper period ; but if the Honourable Gentleman wished for any information in the present instance, he was at liberty to call for it, and he might be enabled in that case to state how the business of the Congress now stood, and whether that which the Hon. Gentleman might desire should be prod uced, could or could not be given. That wh i ch had been done had not yet received its full ratification. Most important questions had been decided, and the deter minations of the Congress had been reduced to arti cles, but these not having yet been ratified, could not be produced. What had been done, had lion done (he repeated it) with the concurrence of all the great Powers, and every thing had been satisfactor i ly arranged that regarded the peculiar interests 4 this country. Mr. WHITBREAD enquired if he was to nutter stand that unless some Member moved tor aornsa don, the Noble Lord proposed to remain altogether silent on these great subjects ? Lord CASTLEREAGH had not intended to as sert this, but in the present state of things his com munications must necessarily be limited. Mr. WHITBREAD wished to know if he was to understand that at any given time the Noble Lord would lay any infctrmation ketore the House as a Minister or as a Member of Parliament ? Lord CASTLEREAGH said, not as a Minister certainly. Lord PALMERSTON, in answer to the question put to him, said, if the discussion on the Corn Bill should not take up much of the time of the House, it was his intention to proceed with it to-day.-11; however, it should be occupied till a late hour in the Committee, he was *tog to postpone it to a fu ture day. Mr. WHITBREAD then gave notice, that oa an early vacant day lie would raise a question on the subject of the Noble Lord's mission, which would give him (Lord Castlereagh) an opportunity of laying before the House such information as he isliest give consistently with his duty. Mr. BENNET wished to know if the Order of the Garter had been given to the King of Spain, and if a commission were now going out to invest him with it—perhaps the Chancellor of the Exchequer might be competent to answer this question. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved, chat the. Speaker should leave the Cuatr.— (A laugh.) Sir G. HEATHCOTg opposed the Corn The high rents, imposed on the grower most ulti mately be paid by the consumer. It followed, that to secure the Landholders their present hip, rents, it was proposed to, allow them to Oz the nunimps at which the poptilatina of gßeend should eat their daily bread. I; was said the lands ;tips in cultiva tion would be again thrown out of cultivation if that Bill did not pass. He denied this. The lands at present in cultivation had nut been used to raise corn when it WAS at 80s. the quarter, but wheti it was likely to sell for 7, by or 49 the quartet ; and. there fore, he was of opinion that even if this Bill did pass, A great portion of that middling land which these high prices had, caused to he so appropriated would soon be thrown out of cultivation. A little mode ration in the landlords. he thought, would be of in finite service to the country. He then read a para graph from All Evening Paper, which was under stood to be as much under the influence of this Go vernment as the Moniieur formerly was under the Governmea of France, and to the leading article of which he hid been informed, the talents of a Right Hon. Gentleman opposite had sometimes been lent. The paragraph was printed in the paper of the 15th of February, and was as follows r.... 44 We will not enter here into the discussion of the situation to which all the proprietors of land now living on their rents, the fair profit of their land would be reduced, if with di. minished incomes they had still to contribute as At present to the general revenue of the country." On this paragraphite would leave the Howe to make their own comments—(a laggh.) He called upon the`! Government by diminishing as much as possible the expenditure of the country, and conjured those who considered themselves interested in the present mea sure to refer to the French Itevolutio:s, and to remem ber, that those who had been then driven from their ; home, and who had come to this country as refugees (though he did not mean to say such could ever be the situation of the landowners of England). had been driven from their home through their contempt for, and neglect of, the feelings of the common Mr. H. ST. PAUL was against the measure—he thought it was premature in the House to interfere at all in the Cora Trade till it should have been seen what effect the return of peace would have on the state of the country. He regretted much that this should have been made a Government question. It was impolitic to have made it so, and he hoped the Noble turd, recently returned from the Continent, had told them so. He again urged the propriety of letting this question rest for the present. Many favourable events for the agriculturist had already taken place—man, of the War Taxes bad ceased— the Property Ta; bid expired—the glut of harem- Lion arising from the overstocked granaries of the Continent had ceascl, and could not soon occur again —and, under all these circumstances, it was probable that grain would fully find its level without any interference on the partif the Legislature. The Hopuurable Gentleman thilp 4tiverted to the great difference which this *measuve, if adopted, world make in the profits of the farther; it would, be said, cause no *a a dibrence than thsg as. 111. per acre, supporeug the price to be raised 404 944 pm vihich he pretended it wound be) train Gals. to fps. and to take the aver s _ge produce st three querteirfpet acre. He conteoed it was a stieasur calcalittic.t to enrith thy hymn! 414 the landowsw at the aspc . sice of ate poverty of di carom. - 1 - • Mr. VII! was io hvour of At oseolik ; which, ,Ifirsaid, Lid for its obis* to preserve an equality of r• .• pricelA this necessary ankle (ink ; and to reader as independent of France, who, though she could not conquer us in war, would, if this measure was not passed, be fully able to starve us in peace. He re. gretted much that such a cry had been raised out of doors against this measure; and he was convinced, if as much pains had bent taken to give the people a clear view of the question as had been taken to mis lead them,_ that they would have been generally in favour of the measure. Persuaded as he Will, that this was a measure for the benefit of the country, he would support it even though the clamour out of doors was ten times as loud as it is. He, however, did not consider the higher price ' 805. as necessary ; and therefore he should, in the Committee, support the lower price, 765. Colonel ELLISON supported the measure. His opinion of it was this ; that the farmer ought to be protected so as to grow Corn and produce abun dance. It was of no consequence, therefore, what the price was at which the House might permit it to beimported, if we could supply ourselves without depcndipg on foreign aid. Mr. CA aTwitIGHT agreed with the Right Ho noura.hle Gentleman, that one of the great objects of the Bill was to give the home-grower confidence. — He deprecated the language of some Gentlemen, which would have the effect of creating a ferment in the rublic mind, by making the lower orders think that the Legislature wished to starve them. He con ceived that the Bill would lower the Price of Porn, which had fallen in price within the last three or four days. lie denied that the Bill was hurried through the House. General GASCOYNE rose to propose an allsCnd assent to the question fur the Speaker's leaving the Chair. He referred to the declaration of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Rehinson) that he would not press the Bill it he thought it would not have the effect ef loweting the price of bread. 'the farmers complained of the low price already., and this Bill was to remedy their complaints. Now, it the asser tion was true, the Honourable Gentleman should have given the House facts to prove his assertion. — It was cue that some calculation; had been gone into by another Right Hon. Gentleman; but those calculations did not satibly him. The proposition was 'a strange one, which went to effect a rise in the price, in the expectation that some time hereafter the price would be lowered. The amendment was—That the House, instead of going into the Committee ti now t " should go into the Committee 44 the first Monday after the Easter r!cess." _ _ Mr. ROBINSON defended the opinions which he had before given. Mr. BULLER said he had a Petition signed by 20,000 persons against the Bill, and he fully agreed with the said Petition. Lord COMPTON was as much a friend to free trade as any one, but to make it perfectly useful you must allow drawbacks to the whole amount of the taxes. The Honourable Gentleman took a view of the arguments used against the Bill, arid observed, that he thought the manufacturers were more in terested than the agriculturalists. He supported the Bill, Mr. Alderman SMITH observed, that if this Bill passed it would benefit no other description of persons but the land-owners. He thought Ministers meant well. but they were mistaken. ' Mr. PRO'rHEROE suggested delay, to consider ;of the propriety of adopting a medium price. For this reason he supported the amendment. Sir W. WYNNE wished the House to go into a Committee to argue the subject. The Honourable Baronet contended, that something ought to be done for the relief of the agricultural interest. The manu facturers were, in his opinion, unwise to oppose the Bill. He was for it, and he thought a fair average price was 755. Mr. MARRYATT said, the public since last year had shewn their opinion of the measure by petition ing. He was for the amendment, as he thought the Bill required consideration. Mr. CALCRAFT objected to precipitating the Bill through the House, which was now attempted in an extraordinary manner. He referred to cases in which more time had been allowed for consideration, particularly in 16304, when nearly two months were allowed between the bringing in and passing that Bill. He hoped the Bill would be passed in such a 'manner as to conciliate the people, and he therefore recommended the House to pause for a few days.— He had no objection to go into the Committee, and fill up the blanks, and let the Report be considered on a future day. The voice of the ought, in his opinion, to be attended to. The Iron P otruble Gen deman referred to the Gawk, to shew that since the measure was brought forward, corn had risen Bs. per quarter. Mr. W. SMITH, as the Representative of a po. pulous city (Norwich), had always told his Coosti- Junta that he would attend to their local interests ; Jest when the general intercea of the country were concerned, he would vote according to his conscience. The price of 80s. he considered too high, and, if car. Tied, he believed it would be'the fined price. For this reason he should vote for the amendment. The question was loudly called for. The House divided—For the Amendment, 61— Against it, 187—Majority, 126. Another division took place on the question for the Speaker's leaving the Chair, 194—Noes, 54----Majo nty, 140. In the CommitteeNr ROBINSON observed, that the Bill had been so often discussed, that he should merely move to fill up the Blank with the words-1 46 Eighty Shillings." General GASCOIGNE moved as• an Amend ment to introduce the words 64 Seventy-four," instead of Eighty. Mr. BRWIEE supported the Amendment. Mr. COURTNEY was of the same opinion. He had not heard from any Gentleman the grounds upon which the calculation that eighty shillings was a fair price proceeded. It must be taken that the fair equivalent to the farmer would be 80s. At that ' ice be supposed it was said that he could a ff o r d to ' . b W is E C° S III TERN In fel arke t t. . how much was due to the r um People—how warm it was to convince them that this - 114itue was legislating for their interests. But he =sll not consent to give up an eflcecioas measure te'skinfiaheir keliks4 • lie was mate and more se. • , defied that we ought to depend on our country for support. Those who opposed the measure ought to revert to Sir C. Whitworth's History, from the year 1710 down to 1764, and they would find that the I ,lnports and exports increased from 10 millions to 85 millions—•agnculture then increased. He con. tended that it was not the importation of corn that reduced the price—a small excess in supply, or a de. ficit, would operate either way to depressor raise the price. He maintained that the abundance of the .home supply would govern the price of the market. If the Legislature did not adopt a system of cocoa. tagement to the home produce, they would deceive thepoblic. It was the duty of the House rather to leave the parts open, and let the people experience the consequences of such a measure, than adopt any half measure, such as proposed by the amendment. bear.)—lie would not consent to give up his own opinion upon this subject. There were times when the people might be led to petition away their liberties and interests. There were those who would court the people to deceive the people—(Near, Fair). —Hq had told the Freeholders of Essen, when they elected him, that he would obey the dictates of Lis own conscience He was of opinion, that, if agil culture was properly encouraged, Corn would lx ' grown as cheap here as in other countries. lie ch. claimed the Dill as a boon and protection to the land owner: It was founded upon state policy, ter Ca benefit of the public at laege. TIJMU“ KOVNO THE MOUSE OF COMMONS. • Mr. BARING rase to address the House whet he was interrupted by— Mr. LAMBTON, addressing the Chairman-0 rise to order, Sir. I have to inform the Committee that there is a military force surrounding the Howe, I therefore move, that the House do new Adjourn.' (Loud cries of Hear, hear.) Lmil CASTLEIZEAGII rose amidst the repeat ed cheering! of the House.- 44 The proper course fo' the Hon. Member to pursue, is to move to repor progress; and when the Speaker has taken the then he may submit his motion. The Hon. Nlembe will inform himself, whether the calling out a 11;j:; tart' force, of which he coral loins, was, or not, la. act of the Civil Magistrate ? If it has been in 4.0::m: quence of the assembling of a tumultuous mob in to neighiourhood of the House of Parliament, tyl:. were holding forth menaces to deter the Menthe: coming down from doing their duty, then the Magi! trate who brought down the force has only discharge, his duty, by protecting the Members and taking car that the passage should be free. It is highly nece try that the independence of Parliament should b. preserved entire, and I hope the Hon. Member woul4 give his support for the preservation of that ind.epee dew, =din aid of the civil power of his counuy.—• It is due to the Constitution of the House that prc tection should be affoldgd to the Members atllr sittings, against the menaces of a lawless aud nn guided mob. (Shout: 'of Hair, hear.)—We are her as Representatives of the people, and not as the L. presentatives of a mob—it we give Up, our indexer deuce as a body to a nob, we then degenerate att. are degraded into a part of that nrob.-- : (Lood aria Hear, Istar.)—l hope, before the Hoa. Member gist the countenance of his name to this charge, thali,k will ascertain whether a military force has presume. to approach these walls. without ehieW•ers of Canitituted Authorities?"— (The cries of Near, heat were repeated with corisiderabk MOW, lay,' extreme agitalioa.) Mr. LAMB TON , rr 4 In reply tO the Noble Lou I can only say, that when I came down, I found avenues to the House guarded by a military Imo I will say, that the menace of a military force is .a bad as a mob."—( Loud cries of Hear, hea,r.) Lord CASTLEREA.GH....." The force to whir the Hon. Member refers, is not a force tir wee:. Parliament, but is a force acting under the author'' , of the Civil Magistrate."—(Hear, hear.) Mr. FIT4GERALD.—A , I deem it my duty t state to the House, that on coming down to after. my duty. I did not find any military, but a menacik: mob, who challenged me, and I was intorinen ha. challenged other Members, to declare their nay• and the votes they had given or meant to give. 0 , entering the House, and being informed that loath' , Member had been in serious danger, but was rescue' from it, I thought it right to inform the Speaker t; the difficulty of passing through the regular avenue. 'and under the protection of the Civil Officers only It was therefore under the mandite of the Speakr the military ware called in aid of the Civil Power and, as circumstances had occurred, I cannot but :L ment that the Hon. Member (Mr. Lambton) was r.c the first to call for that assistince."—(Hear, hear.) Mr. WHITBREAD.—" It is not surprising the. the Honourable Member, with the feelings he pa seises, should conceive that the constitutional mode of attending Parliament had been infringed, net knowing how or why that military force ;awe there. I concur, however, with the Noble Lord and the Right Hon. Gentleman, that if Members were 'V suited or menaced, it was the duty of the civil pow. to protect them against such Insult, and if the! we'' not sufficient, to call in *other aid. The proper my of proceeding will be for the Committee to MP' progress, the Speaker resume the Chair, and then er• quiry may be made, and the matter explained to it satisfaction of the House."—(Crier of Near, hear Move, move.) Mr. WHITBREAD moved accordingly. Ur CASTLEREAGH concurred in opinion with 14 Whitbread. The Chairman was ordered to repo progress, the House resumed, and the Speaker roc the Chair. Mr. LAMBTON-0 I am to acquaint the Hoes that on coming clown Parliament-street to attend i• my place in this House, I was nearly rode over by squadron of Horse Guards who were surrounding tl House. Knowing that the constitutional jealooit of Parliament prohibited any such F ueds, and the its independence did not requ i re a military protectio I thought myself justified in stating to the Ho"' what i had seen ; because If permitted in she 6r instance, in the next it might be used for the purpoi of overawing it—( Cries of no, no.) —By might." Mr. CROKER.••••• 4 As I was coming down liament-street, my carriage was met by a mob, wh enquired what Members were is it—my servants di not tell diem. The mob then accompanied my cal doge to the doors of the Ijouse. On its stoppinr the door Of my carriage was forced open, 1 wo n Au lig/ it Waflst ewe by my own se ow 11 I 5 bat 1