Star. — London, England, 1801-11-04 00:00:00

. • :0 le; •.. • ;1111P 0 ..t • ••_, •• . _ .... , 4 _ , ,-, , • • i - 11 0 ••• 4 , 1);"", r , ;',ll , • . . - . . -. . . . .: ' Ilt $.• . ; , i. • . i°-‘; - - . ~,,. .• , • ) --„, . • . . . • ••, , ... , . • lik P. _ . . - . , . ~.......______ MALLeftlaNr.fßt. P:MCEANNOS. confdlent with propritty,' ,- Or With corder ' 'to colt on the Houfe at once to plunge into abufinefs on which they didri4kOffefi the nacenbrgyinki mation ? and he con gaed, that it Was coMpe tent for any Noble l o cate ici spore a quefi)on pre vious to the. Order of the Day being oro s eeeded upon. r After finite firther, t ikuvetfatidn let Ween Vie Luca Chaneeller e die Duke of Bedford; #rd Grenville," 4c. tbeliCari agreed to proceed upq n the Ovder Oldie DaY. , That part of . his blijeKes Speech iebicb reiat.. lid to the Preliminary-Treaty, end - ' the Treaty if- Alf, being then read ,.. .. ~ Lout It9mOrr 1 4 4, 'ilia fall he boned their Lordffilps would ,coot with him in returtlinit ' thanks to his Makfly far the communication he had been gracioully - pleated to make to them, 1 they were, be raid, at the date of along and ex.! pude* war e which, from the great Oct - Wens that had beep blade in carryit i n for the defence 9( ale Conftlfation, had d the.enuntry of a greet portion of its Wealth. t was not a war ofl our feeking: it bad *bein forced on the country by the propagation of principles, which at One time bad been received and approved of by great numbers of people.. ,flaviog Elated this, he muff espreff the great fatisfaaioo he now felt at feting did& principles abandoned and uhiverfally dii• liked, not only in Great Britain, but in the very ;swag with which we had kill made Peace—the ,rolipg power of which was as ini- Mical to them is we ourfelves wclc. He was furry to fay, that ;in "the courfe of the war great' burthens had been laid on the people ;" but he had the confolation to retied that ,the country was eininentlyfuccefsfui in her exertions; and although France - had eplaiged her territory, and aggran dized her p l ower, , th e refult of the war was not lets atigantagepus and honourable to. Great Bri tain.. Let this war be compafed with others in which we 4ta4 been engaged ;"let it be compared with that carried on by the great Lord Chatham ; and there mufti 'not :be found anYthino, to equal the ,brilliapt erploits.that bid been atchieved both by feathdlangia theeciurfe of the contpft ; and at no pe,rloti, ) ,dtiring the courfe of the war, did our ftice,o:is appear with more fplendour, and become more detifive, than doring-the courfe of the pre. fent year. 'This was a happy moment to entertain thoughts of peace. When our roc:cores were fo great, it would nqtliive been wife to have puthzd them to Jill rX.treiniti that might dcfbvy the chance of ' returning tranquillity. The patience with which The Cotuitry Gentlemen had borne their burthens was a folzjea worthy the attention of Government; they had Tirade great faeritices, and cootributcid a (hare proportionably greater" 'than any other defcription of men, without a #ipnnur i and it was- the - duty . of "Government to relieve the 'at . the very firft opportpnity it ~, could du rowith hoitourto itfeff and the nation: No MtaildnirbiZeforthezion; Co l a s ce t ten p t t of the wia i ri a was rd. fo [hip tbcn took a view of the &fellers we had Inf . fad at different times ; and the almoft ruinous .fkate in which our finances were at one period ; he next proceeded to thew how di ff erent every amnion and eireandlauce of the country was now; obfervisig that our refinarees &mai to in-' creak as it were with our debt, and then afked, whether it would haste been wife or necefary to carry on the war any further, or whether we,could .expea to accomplis h any Oita by continoing it ?" The Preliminary Articles of the Treaty, whatever Might be the opinion of others on the &hie& he mnit ,confidir as higbly,adrantageous to this coun try. It was net only .u nneceffary to carry on the i war any longer, but its further continuance wou l d have encrealed the public burthenl to an enor mous pitch. He admitted drat our Allies had been defeated, thetthey wereobligedto. make a feparatc". Peucoand that France hadaggrandizedher power in a very,reat degree; but - Rill he contended we had gained the abjea for which we (truggied; we , !were fuceefsful lb far as regarded our own. exce -1 Lions. :It was not a war of choice on our, i part, but a war of necellity ; and as fuch we were fuccefsful in ,the war, becaufe we removed" the evils that gave rife to it. We engaged' io it for the protettion of our Laws, our Coal- Aption, our Liberty, and Religion; and in this , °hied we fucceeded. Comparing the objefts of. this war with thee of all others in which the court try was ever engaged, .there was not one in which we were fe fuccefsful as the .prefent. There were Come who thought that agreat facrifice of territory ' was`anade by-, this country. He would ark,, of what value could thole Iflands that were ceded be to this country, compared to the evils of continu ing the war? Many of them, fo far from increafing '.ore revenues and helping our finance, would have been, a drain upon.the country; anti as to the Cape of Good Hope, the fame "edvantage . s were to be derived from it as if it-was to remain in our pot felktua: it was to remain a harbou r for our °lip , ping, and we were to enjoy there every privilege l as in a place of our own. Their Lordthips mutt not forget the great advantages which our arms Thad gamed in India , by the overthrow of Tippoo Sultana and the caorsqueTit acquifition of terri tory. ibis was not•the only benefit arifing from that conquell ; the tenuity of our pollifGens in India was completely eltablifhed. There was every chance and profpea •f the continuance of the .bktlings we were about to enjoy, and the heft sixaratay.for the peace was the mutual advantage ! which both countries mull derive from it. With m a y to the I:nonvntiirnenttailtrlizerrnss, h in e h a oped r that th Frauce.ts in .Couutry , after the experience the bad, would keep-slur of them. It was not to the ad... , . an:; scot Groat .11raaaa.to farm Coatan al- HOUSE OF LOUD TUESDAY, ItOVEMIPIR Oa Lord Pawl ai moving the circlet of the Day for taking into cortrularation the AcirlreCi to his *city on the ) am*, Lord Ge.unft‘ts requeited the Noble Lord Would give the Bottle the inferination afked for on preceding day, rellfkre ,tmi • the Treaty between France and Potng.* and in *bat' Inanner St wo uld bear on ont,ourii. •,, , Lord Paaidwie Add, it win 44 tory inconie, nierit to giVe t it/fßOatif, s A the ;mita' flags of t he bunal4 - Ligd Oeureii.oraid, the iallintoti on ?tad tteeri imly.genoraill,raWonred out of dirt., in conk queue 0fy1mi4 . 414 Plod blotto:1w place. He w aked nt know, Anther the whole of the territory-s of Portugal rscreptiOrroed to that country °root? Lord Prrimayo thought the general prtociple of the Treat,' -brownrP this Country and Frances could be eekt,epomPlpiircnired, wi:hout going into the anemia °fight Treaty with Nautili, or dif eutring lay p e g Onalar artick Ile arbnitted that reafot hi s ea ozat n * witrAerlgte be 0; brit be few no :livered Ou the l lim eaty it, mif 4A r otber Powers bad done. The Tr Atimilefruig .to public rumour, bad bean ra -and a part of the territory Of] ggal "lat•!V.• the caul c4ariikof Alivcn- MN= Wa4kAnIUJ to spaisa en account of the fi nu ,ggling trade, bad been ceded. The Treaty with Francohad not been ratified. • Lord gatevl:4* thought the explanations he had defined .weye emaremely necelClry- Time Treaty of Madrid, if what he. had - heard was truer did not leave Pprogel ;t liberty to continue its for mer ornmereal relations with this Country. lie w ilked to have this importint 14(mi:cation before ;he geoeralinhjera of the Peace was.slifeuffed, in order-to know whether it aio not interfere with our Preliminaries Lord Tailsow confidered the onefkion of the Yoble Baron wan not a. proper one; fusee there wa s museclier • anlon,-be the Idoufe. He thought wasettaltoofkful to *tam. ou(e with lTich 4 .1 1 H • a coontrfattnot. and should therefore mote for the Vitierikthe Day: L, ot clO ß cµvw staid, tbeltiotion for the Order of the 1114 ma& sat before tbs. Hoare, t he thou!cl therefore mere, Oat . a copy 7 -of ,the Treaty of betwgn ft-4r= Porugtal, mould be laid 'icier; the fleck. ;notion was not af feared rot • nnrdaty infArmnatiton given, the Houle proddraw a very unfaveur"ie omen, and a bad eoneltilion of the caadourwhiei was to be ea peded from the•otitee. cat. was notorious that a Treaty bad boon concluded .at. Madrid. • He fubmitte; tobabler-it was neeti4aMe urthe Dlobie Secreutenal e dr, lkonciorAbi to be Morel thinks h 0014,0014 *Ponta decade on the Peace, when Arch n :try 'otuatiou:svas refoCed ? LordlidouoiVoreige oblete4, that thedikutrion 'the lioatbutmteolled to enter t q was to con' -fader the.-Pinary Artirles•of the Treaty be: :went thiie and France, and not to debut It Treat, Arleen- Fr ace , and ,Portugal. .He opted Lor#, pebetheeitile y!ere in the ..fituaticipmfrbie,hiabln icaid,,lte would not afore the laioraustion,alemautded ,l The Lena Piot-cc-410.0s Acakd, the Houfe was . totering7 on thejlifeuffion of a tUbjett of the /aghea imporutpce, imatnely. to, eoufider the-As/inks of . tlte s PreirisialyNreakel , between which god: the_ •fettliag of the Definitive TifeatY, 4te, coneciopl it., • improper that oity,fue* gtintlions pa, thofe *artist: by biolinige..biegd .iikottki take t 9 the.";e4Pn" of the hlnitfe,,,such a Fooeeding was not Parlia mentary, and it had a tendency to retard and porms4teaecomplilletaestof ev ary-falutary par- , -111"thiqb bin lotaistraillerthia • swat wile IFFirad "'pedlar it wa s . enfaliorit with the deny that Houk owed his boa jeliys to cal fit information which might lead eat iimeespofuretui ohiags.that.at tbia,period, it wouW . , lheimaproper-to make known ? •LSool 4 ittvai.ow faid,thnolle Houle nmaillen, ptaccod tottlan Order of i the Day there was ,no 040,4'141mi before it, nor. could any motion precede that order. , - Lord Gerovate.e • fitid l .he certainly had a right , to move an. antendmentoo Ole motion, which wart That..au lamb*. Addrefs be orefented to his iiraying that be would be pleafed toorw der re be laid before the Hole a copy of any,. Tiestmentered-into between the Court of Litho; mulch:hat ti Great Britain." Lead Ticeit.ow obferved that it was a new ittode.nflineeedinr to bring forward a new MO teoa v>lett an ordetof the clay was already before' ehe Hcnfe. Lord Getzsrrn.it . contiende:l he had a right to melee Itteh an urneniment, and he waited to-do fi before the slifsailforn an the Preliminary . Tsenty,. beguile he. conceived it lOL'eetrety to Ilttge the fungi information that emit& ire given on-the Gib- It It was 6r from his intention to delay that dilentßoahy introducing any queftion about or- der; hot, in point of ,osier, he contended. he had a righted put thematic* he had made - Lord DAalekee foil], that he, forme, wee ready se -*soar into she bible& Which •thc Houle • was lbw* to proceed upon. without _any (Lich infor maiiowas Alas required by the liohle Lord, and bethought the circler of the.day wok firiL be ,pro- eesded Lord Tutrasow and -she Loafs Casalic . issue veers of the ifseorsempiniou. Earl liireirvra fopported his Noble Friend's swienartutut, 'which he thought the Hoofe ,wars Jour oesths m receive. sad not to cafe* ce tbs OTift orders, even if ti nt could be done. LudloL C.aeree /mos whe immis was fiances --to hiffoad *Froteal , cerwards fbrfook her. rations, his Lordfhi " That an humble Maidly, thanking 'hi efeicenflort in dirt lint liming ry Treaty with be laid. before the Hi jetty that the Houle conflilitation the Arty with heartfelt Patisfae ifaad to the effects of h &rentl in concluding Mel? to be followed .vantages, -and to pror pf the country: , ' Lord LIN le lc it feci aflonifhed that the to confidered by any 1 country. -Whatever nature in the treater tal ?own* no pais every' pert of the wort on our own efforts, f wsre crowned with tat chip took a brief review of our expeditions, and dwelt with "exultation on the iffue of the campaign in Egypt. He lamented the fate of the Prince of Orange, a Prince defeended from a race of heroes who had for two centuries been the champions of the civil. and' eeliginas liberties of Europe, and ever attached to the interefts of this country ; but however hard his fituation might be, it was upon the. Powers of the Continent, and not upon us, that the odium mutt attach. One great advantage which he regarded as refulting from the Peace; was, that it mutt give a death blow to the hopes of thofe who ftill laboured to fan the flames of dif content in Ireland.' While there remained any chance of afliftance from France, there was little hope of tranquillizing the deluded part of the population of that country, many of whom, nn fortutiately, regaided theconceflions made to them as originating more in a fpirit of fear than clemen cy." His Lordfhip then contrafted the advantages obtainedby the prefent Treaty with thofe of the Treaty copcluded in 1 7 88 . The Minillry who concluded that Treaty had been driven fie= their places by a coalition ; he hoped there was no mea fure of that kind in agitation for expelling theatre fent Miniftry. 'laird SPENCER regretted that he fhould Rand in the fituation of an oppofer of men with whom lie bad long acted with fatisfattion ; but he could not avoid _placing himfeW in that firuation , continently „with ihe difelarge of his duty to his own charac ter, his King, his country, and his Goo. How could that peace be called honourable, by which 'we gave up every thing to our principal enemy, njiiie he ceded nothing ? How could it be called fecore, when we yielded, without any jug equiva lent, Rations of the outmoß importance to the ene my, in cafe of future holtilities, and which largely contributed to the means of profecuting them ? How could the Article relative to Portugal re dound to our honour, when its conftruaion was finch as to ratify the ceflion of a part of her territo ries to our enemies ? Was it to the negotiations of our Misitters that Turkey would confider herfelf in debted for the expulfion of the French from Egypt, and for the integrity of her dominions ? No! that obligation the owed to the heroic valour of our failure and foldiers. As to Rome and Naples, the ilipulation was equally nugatory. He anderßood that the Roman territory was already evaeulted, and that very few French troops remained in the other - kingdom. But why attach any importance to the evacuation of thole dominions, when we leave our enemy in polfeflion of every facility to invade them at pleafrire. The noble feconder had, in terms which left him little - to fay, lamented the &nation of the Prince ofOrange : could the treaty - , then, be termed honourable, as far as his interens were involved, when it did not appear that a finale effort had been made in his favour ? In vain aid he look in any of its flipulations for what had re peatedly been declared to be the objea of tile con tell, "indemnity for the pail, and fecurity for the ;future." His Lordfhip, purfuing this line of ar gument, expatiated upon the imprude nce of our 1 eeffions in the Eat! and Weft Indies, and the Me- 1 diterranean. The terms, he Paid, were unequal, and it was hence impoifible that they Ihould imply fecurity. tie did not rely much on the guarantee which we were direaed to look to in the mutual interefts of the two countries. Nations were Come times plunged into war in oppolition to their real interelts ; and it not unfrequently happened that the intereft of all ufurper differed very widely from that of the people. His Lordfhip, however, far ready prayed, that events might thew that his fears were groundlefs ; but mutt confers the full extent of thofe fears, though he knew that they had expofed him to the ridicule of a certain clad Of men; and he hoped that Minifters would thew that they were . fallible of the new and perilous fituation of affairs, by keeping up a fixong naval and military ellablif)iment. The Duke of CL AR ex c r, in foppon of the Ad drefs, took a detailed review of the events of the war, from the landing oC his Royal brother, the Duke of York, in Flanders, to die conclittion of the conteft in the furrendcr of Alexandria, and contended, that at no period of our 'noels hed the Brain) character Rood higher in poiet of naval and military glory. The retreat of the l)ukc of York, and the Cubfequent cooquetts of the French, lie afcribed entirely to want of co-peretion on the part of the Continental Power The glory of our armies be regarded as confurrimated by the dig nified moderation difplaycd in our propofals for ;Peace. Hii Ilighoefs expatiated on the advantage% we thould derive from the pacifies of Ceylon and. tent, and that too when thofe u. , which we had taken up arms, raged with unabated violence. Yet it would be found that the terms on which the late Admindlration were willing to make Peace, differed in no material degree from thofe of the Treaty before the - Houle. The only efental vatiation was the fubiiittition of the Mind of Trinidad for the fettlement of the Cape of Good Hope, and he did not conceive that they were lb pertinacious upon that point as to continue the sear in order to procure its ceffion ; much lcfs if the enemy had then confentcd, as they now have, to its being made a free port. With rape& to Per tngal, he admittedthat its limits were notregat - 1:11 as precifely defined at the time the Preliminaries were figned. The Treaty of Madrid, however, having been concluded fetbfequent to the Treat ld y with this Country, it was t o be fuppofed, wou he fupstrfeded by the, latter. But upon this point, however, much as he might be preffed, he could only give that general intlumation which he had gis , en on a former earening. It would certainly be fully difeuffed by the Plenipotentiaries appointed to conchade the Definitive 'Treaty. To them likewife was referred the indemnification of. the Prince of Orange, and 'therefore, there was no neceffity for introducing the fubjeft into the PrOinliaary. 'Treaty. The Itlpulation for evacuating Lower Italy was intended, as far as we could, to remove all danger of a fudden attack upon the territo.ics of the Otto man Porte. With refpeEt to Egypt, as it was never fuppofed that we were to retain it, it inrely was of . fome importance, notwithltanding the brilliant fuccefs of our arms in that quarter, to have a for mal claufe inferted for its evacuation,and for main taining the integrity of the Turkifh dominions. Malta only became an °bled of importance to us when it fell into the hands of the French ; and it would hardly be contended, that the retention of it in our hands would jullify the continuance of holli 'kitty when the French Government ; tread to its being reßored to the Knights of M a lta, unthir the g uarantee of a third independent Power. His Lordlhip concluded with Willing, that the terms of Peace were in every refpeet fuels as were truly honourable to the char:liter, while they were ftriEtly confiftent with the inure-as of the Brie& nation. Lord GRENVILLE (aids befor e he proceeded to the ionlideration of the general gelation bcfore their Lordibips, be derived molt carnally to affure than, that it would have been matter of great fa tisfa6lionindeed, of the moft lively jay—if the di, etes of his own judgment would have allowed him to concur in the line of corivatulation ,as marked out by the Noble Mover of the Ad drefl before the It would hive been matter of the mot heart-felt fatisfaaion to him if he 'could have agreed to an Addras, ftating that we had brought an arduous and important contcft to a fuecelsful termination. But, he was furry to fay. that according to the belt cc niideratioti he had been able to give the fubjeert, no one of the objeas for which we had warred fo long had been attain ed. The Noble Lord hart Rated, that feet'. rity had been the utjea of the war. It was .1: . but inflead of obtaining that objeet, we were sow left in a fituation of far greater infectit;ty than we were at the commencement of the war, or at any time during its continuance. In examining the queltion before them, he thought it material to Rate what was precifely and aittintlly the nature of the propofed motion. If it had been n qualion. whether our naval and military ett its had been great and glorious, and bad been crowned with fuccefs beyond all termer times? he (hould readily agree with it. He alfo agreed as to another paint, namely, as to the exr.atiency of peace upon fecure and honourable terms. He conceived the queltion was not whether peace was defirable upon lecture and honourable terms; for peace upon fuch terms was the objet of eve' y war ; nor whether it &mild, or fheiuld not nos be agreed to ; for the honour cf the nation was now pledged to perform the conditions ; and as io many facriliccs had been already made, lie was the left men who would propof;: to fact iiice the na tional honour; but that it was this—what were the merits of the prefent Treaty ? and litould the Hotife carry to the foot of the Throne an Ad tree, which told his Majcity they' had eily thee merits, and that the terms were Bitch as de: Peeved their approbation ? To this he could e, agree. becanfe he thought the ter tageous to the country, and fraugl elation and national humiliation. being thus narrowed, the neat coots 'how was it to be tried ? It had been .. -., . ;...-fat,...., ..... jh ~.16 - • " har.L. •,, s ' • • •• -. t ;•-• 417, " . . ' 5 .11.- , • 4( -:`•/ / 4 4 MIL AS/ e h / littar4E .% .., • P• 1 4:Al. f 1 v \ .'N • I I ROI - • - MICE I , IX-PENCk. 1 . - ----- roteition to countries that af- Trinidad. Thefe were all of our conquefts that _ r. • After Tome further obfer. we could prudently r etain with Out imprudently i concluded with moving, draining o u r p o p ulation, which indt:ed was per- 4dihsfs be prefented to his haps too renal' for the extent of territory we Rill urn fortis molt gracious con- polfeffed. It was, he believed, to this cause, that' 1g that the Articles of the Pre- the defencelefs Rate of our colonies in the Weft- h the French Republic, fhould Indies, is 1783, was attributed. The ar:icle in Hour.; and afTuring his Ma. the Treaty b etween Itnilla and France, proved re would take into its ferious that the latter had abandoned her clifc,rganiting nicks in queftion ; that it was principles, anti he mutt fay, that but for the gi- faition the Houfe looked for• gantic exertions of this country in oppofition to if his Majeßy's juilice and mo. - thofe principles, fttch a cones ion would not ing a Treaty of Peace that was have been obtained. His liighnefs juftified Mi. red by important national ad- nifters in reflorins the Cape of Good Hope, that by ‘ the fubltantial interefts citing the eority of Lord Keith, wO faid, N romote fcttlement, uth if retained, would prove a mill-ftone. seconded the motion. He was Lord PILUAM compared the relative fituation I terms of the Treaty fhould be of this country and France at the prefent trills, perfon as humiliating to this wi t h what it was in the years 1796 and 1797., and er there was of a humiliating remarked upon the fingular contradiaionbetwee fers c is concluded with the Continen- the principles and views.upon which the oppo of it-could attach to us. In of the Addrefs now argued, and-their conduit it world where we had to depend the above period, when they fent Lord Malmtbury . . 1, bar foldiers and our allots to treat for Peace. France was then in polleffion of laurels. pn this topic his Lord. e as wide ~ an extent of continental territory as at pre. *-*--- --I —s. ...i th2r too when thofe doitrines, againft qutt• fulcrett;olll itili ej atii[ •