Star. — London, England, 1818-01-06 00:00:00

encounter.- reason for not giving officers to the they could not enforce orders on a vessel, the men not being entered as tonal. The Ganges was now lying at Blackwell. It had been originally fitted up for the Lascars, and the *Mier had generously said he would accommodate, . the Committee with her, if he were paid the interest of the purchase money. Jn addition to the informa tion he had received from Mr. Croker, Lord Melville wrote him that morning, - and he had had an into,- view with his Lordship, who had promised that if a Committee were appointed by the Meeting, and any, thing suggested which the Admiralty, consistendy with public duty, could do, he pledged himself it{ should be done. He had only further to add, that the expense of the vessel he had alluded to would 1* only ISt_ guineas a month. Mr. MATTHEW MARTIN said, the seamen might be considered as those either belonging formerly to men of war, to mer t vessels, or to dse East India Company. 'Now, drlny of those, he believed, who belonged to the men of war, originally were provid ed with pensions, and thereby less objects of public charity. The second class, he believed, were really very distressed, and he had in several instances sup plied some of them with clothes, which he believed were afterwards sold, as indeed was often the cafe. There was one very fine young man whom he ha given clothes to, but who afterwards seem and sold them. Perhaps the better and more advisable way' would be to lend them clothes, on their producing * note from the Captain of a vessel, though, perhaps; often false notes might be produced. An inspector woulitbe of much service near the water side. Mr. DRINKALL observed, that the foreign seamen taken up by the late Lord Mayor had been accom modated with ships. Very few of the sailors to be , seen in the streets were fit for merchantmen, as a great many of them belonged to the out Torts..— Economy was, above all things, the best thing to be attended to. Mr. MARTEN would be glad of the last speaker's assistance in the Committee, and to them it was surely best to leave the adoption of particular plans., Mr.DRISKALL considered that Government would find it their object to attend to the state of the Sea men, in the event of what might perhaps be the case. His great object in what he suggested was, to guard the Committee against contracting large accounts in the first instance ; and he must again repeat, that he firmly believed, were an application made to the Secretary of State for the Home Department, his Lordship would immediately issue an order to the Admiralty to grant the two vessels he had already alluded to, for the use of the Committee ; these ves sels being certainly the property of the public, but not of the Admiralty. Mr. DORNYORD obierving Sir James Shaw pre sent, one of the Representatives in Parliament of the City, wished he would explain how it came to 1 ass that the salutary arrangements adopted by Govern faint at the close of the late war, for removing the, vagrant Seamen front the Metropolis and placing them in a vessel in the River, had been abandone Considering the very salutary effects which bad been thereby produced. Probably lie could .fe*ou?' the Meetkg with some eiplanation of this ? Sir - James SHAW said he should, as shortly as paa, sible, explain' what had taken place about 18 or 24 months ago, under the Mayoralty of the late Lord Mayor. He felt he was bound to do so, after the manner in which he had been called on by-the Hon. Jientlernan who last addressed them. It was well known, that at the close of the late war, in which this country had been for so many years engaged, the streets of this extensive Metropolis were crowded in a great degree by discharged Seamen. Their. ap pearance and numbers attracted the notice of the late Lord Mayor, who, in consequence, consulted his Allow Magistrates what they considered it' was pro- per to do in such a situation. They having consider ed what they should do, felt themselves bound to wait on the Secretary of State for the Home Depart ment, and on the Noble Lord at the head of the Admiralty, by who'd, it was hut justice to say, the Magistrates of London were received with the utmost politeness and attention. The Lord Mayor conceived the most advantageous mode which could be adopt esi.both as regarded the seamen themselves, and the blearing of the streets, was . to station a vessel in the River, under the jurisdiction of the Magistracy of =art: and Middlesex, with proper Government on board, and also a Purser on hoard, for the express put:pose of taking care of provisiqns ; and that the Lord Mayor and Magistrates of the City and County should cause all vagrants to be apprehended and sent there, where they should he examined, in order that those found fit, on such examination, for actual service, might be employed in the first ship that should be put in commission; that those not fit for service should be sent to their respective homes; that fo rrigi,eirs might be given in charge to their respective Coneals .nal that men of colour should be sent either to Africa, or stationed in some of his Majesty's Co- loffies abroad. Such was what had occurred to the ' late Lord Mayor, and in which his fellow Magis trates concurred. The plan was agreed to by Go vernment, and the naked clothed from the Govern ment stores. A vessel was stationed in the River ; and so effectual was the remedy, that in a short time very few vagrants were to be seen in the 'walk sir private streets or alleys. How the v%l had since beer removed he could norsay ; ner would he attempt to say—but he had no difficulty in asserting, f; con the kind attention then shewn by his Majesty's leg n isters, that it would now succeed, were an ap plication made to Government, and that similar good weiuld follow. Were Magistrates and Parish officers but-so do their duty, the excellent effects would be speedily seen, and tke number of vagrants and men dicants rapidly decmase. Mr. Owe/twee said, from the -experience he had had, the Meeting would see the indispensible neces sity they were under of treating seamen with proper caution. The system of sending them to Bridewell was totally inadequate, and would never do—and for .himself he could say, he had there seen %wretched ness . t /ho,ited in the strongest and most awful light. He really thought that there were sufficient recep for seamen already without providing more, every parish was bound to take up every t found in it. If parishes were to do their and every man to do his, then would we not be ...tuned to draw together. Caution should be arr• ttzialy taken, but he must own he was not inclined always' having money given. Parish constables were bound to do their duty through the day as well as through the night, for it was well known these' creatures were suffered to roam about through day, while through night they were taken up and often plundered. Captain PRANELIN said, from his knowledge as a Captain of an East Indiaman, he was prepared to speak a few words on the subject. He had seen these miserable creatures in a situation which must shock even the stoutest heart, naked and homeless, friendless and hungry. He had in some instances given some of them slops, but how was it possible, nay rational, to think that these men, in that mise rable state of nudity, could be employed 1 Who would engage them? For himself he could say, no man was, none could be, more disposed than himself to give them assistance ; and next year he 41044 certainly engage as many of them as he could, ix 4 vessel which he was just now building. Anothet question was, what was to become of the old men? It was impossible to think what could be done with those between 45 and 50, as young men were chießt wanted, not only in merchant vessels, but by Gni vernment, whenever any fleet or vessel was fitted Oat by Government. These were points worthy °fame notice, and certainly of considerable moineet. Captain GOADON, Royal Navy, Secretary, drew # most affecting picture of the miseries he had wit' nessed among the discharged Seamen in London.— One evening he went to one of those miserable places in St. Botolph, Aldgate, where these creatures spent the night. In four small rooms, 14 feet ley 16, he found fourscore wretches in a state, to describe which was truly impossible. He could discern among them few men, for they were really skeletons, Seamen's skeletons as he could well perceive. He questioned them about what exertions they had made to procure a ship, when one and all expressed with eagerness their wish to serve, but that from their naked appearance no one would employ them. Wil ling to work, they were alone prevented from doing so by their miserable appearance. Nothing, he was confident, couldinve induced them to resort to that p!ace o ihat noxious place, but their being reduced to the fast shift. He might well call it a noxious place, for the smell was intolerable, and the air most baneful. That it could not be otherwise might easily be seen from what he had stated respecting the size of the miserable holes they were placed in, as diem who could pay threepence a night were allowed a bed, that is, allowed to lie on an old torn mattress on the floor, without a covering, and those who could pay only twopence, were allowed to cotnem but not to lie down, while those who could nor af ford that miserable pittance, were debarred from en tering. On his return from this miserable place, he found five in the streets, who had not been fortunate enough to raise this twopence. They were standing in the streets in a cold frosty nigh, shivering in the toll, while their uncovered limbs were exposed to all the severities of the weather. One of them was 1 1eMg with his tongue out, in a very. great,fever Numerous were the instances which . had occurred these brave defenders of their country, these men alio were worthy of a better fate, perishing from act*, starvation. One was three weeks agerfaund dead,eneo ther carried to St. George's Hospital, where lie died, while a third yielded up a miserable existence Greenwich beach. 'When such things were thought of, when such things were known to be facts , it 15e..1 came every marr to be active and do his duty. Whca a great many of these men were found young a.el active, and fit for duty, it became every man to sop forward and use every exertion to have such cafe attended to. The cause, in a great measure, of the* ruin, might be attributed to their being caught whet) they came on shore, by a set of petty agents, who laid in wait to entrap them, and their then going to houses of debauchery, where they were stript of their all, and left to wretchedness and woe,- JAMES STEPHEN, Eiq. felt, after what had been said respecting the Meeting being drawn together unnecessarily, chat as he was one of those who had called the Meeting, and was therefore guilty, it was incumbent on him to defend himself and his friends, and td say that they were not, and had not been, so hasty as was alledged, until they had first ascertained that any remedy elsewhere was lost. Such insuper able difficulties lay in the way that there was no hope of Government doing any thing, or interferins, un til probably after a great number of these poor wretches had perished. His worthy friend, the Ho ' nourable Baronet, had laid much stress on the happy effects which would result from the Magistracy doing their duty. Were that the case, were the interfe rence of Magistrates to be so admirably beneficial, he hoped and trusted the Honourable Baronet would interfere, and do his duty as a Magistrate, and then those who had undertaken this cause, would have the pleasing task of declaring that they required no aid from charity, and would thereby be relieved from the arduous duties attending it. Wevetuch case, he for one rejoiced at this consummation of their labours, but after th.- statement made by that 'gallant Captain, who had been honourably employed in his country's service, aad never more admirably employed than in the cause before them to-day, he could not accede to the proposition laid down— Applouses).—What ! was he now in the midst of this City of London, and in the presence of a num ber of most respectable and enlightened Gentlemen, to be called to prove that mendicity exists, and to be told that if Magistrates did their duty, it would be removed? Had not the system of poor rates long been found inadequate for its removal ? Had not all of them, in these few days, witnessed men is the most miserable and helpless condition, without shoes or stockings, or adequate clothin7 s . during the rigour of a severe frost, and had we not been told by . in the most piteous manner, that they were actually perishing for want, and seen that tale confirmed, too I strpngly confirmed, brtheir haggard looks and pal . lid countenances—( Appleuses) ?--If the worthy 1)a - ronet has seen this, and have seen it he must, why [ has he not come forward and called on the Chief Magistrate of London to do his duty, and also called on the other Magistrates to do the same? Suck, mien be the Honourable Baronet'; opinion respect_ ing the effects which would- result from the *est.( . • • . . \ • • 1 4 , tales for far as they could withproFievy . rhas. for certain rea- and that sots, it was impossible for their Lordships to officer vagrant any vessel, but that they would lend the Committee duty, an 4 a vessel on security being given for it, though their required Lordships were afraid that Gentlemen werenot aware tainly to of the* ffi cultiell they might have to encounter. — for alwa, Their Lordships' reason for not giving officers to the were bou reed was, that they could not enforce orders on as throu, board of such a vessel, the men not being entered as creature: it while th • • 6 • • • or I } A, I t I • • IT r 4 rence of the Magistracy, but a wry elifTerent opinien; was held by the worthy Chief IMlagistrate of London,' whom he had the hooourto see near him (Applause). That respectable inividual, the moment he was ap -lied to by him (Mr. Stephen) on the subject, at once stated his participation with the feelings of the Com mittee, and frankly said that if 501. would de them any service, be should with much pleasure grant it. (A/plows.) Being asked if he would grant the use of the large Hall in the Mansion-house for the use of a meeting, if the Committee should see cause to re quire it, he instantly agreed, stating at the same time his anxious desire that something should be done.— He had repeatedly relieved from the City funds many of the poor individuals brought before him in the Justice Room, and he (Mr. Stephens) had no doubt he had often done so out of his own pocket. But what was to be expected unless something was effectually done ? In passing the poor creatures to their parishes, the Overseers perhaps gave them a few pence to get rid of them, but was this the effec tual way-of removing mendicity ? Again, in other instances, the wandering honseless seaman was sent to Bridewell—a hard reward of his bravery in de fence of his country—(Load applauses),—to be sent to Bridewell as a rogue and vagrant. Let those say the contrary who will, there -must necessarily be always a call for discriminating charity, and for t - benevolent employing their time in causes of charity, which was more valuable than money. The Board of Admiralty had offered a vessel on certain condi tions ; but would this alone of itself be sufficient ? How could the miserable Seaman be sent aboard in his state of nudity ? Would those, who wished to send him off, do so without giving him shoes, or stockings, or clothing ? If they did, where was the charity they boasted of?--where the good they wish ed to be thought having done ? If such articles were to be given him, how, he would ask, were they to be procured without money ? This cer tainly must, if raised at all, be procured by public charity; for it was impossible to suppose that the Ad miralty could give away the public money illegally. These were considerations which forcibly struci his mind ; and he had to beg pardon for having so long detained the Meeting. The most effectual plan was, first, to examine the respective cases ; and thus would good be done, by the axe being laid to the root of the evil. Unless something was now done, the men must perish. The mode in which relief was to be admi nistered was not now before the Meeting, nor were they called to decide on that. The meye point was simply the existence of distress, the necessity of ap pointing a Committee, with powers to look into that distress, and with money to aid them in theirlabours. The Committee would decide on the mode, as that. was their particular province. Let individuals pur sue, at their own discretion, their own views of relief the more the better ; but let them, in one mode or another, endeavour to deliver from a state of distress, pitiable and most deplorable, a class of men whose sufferings must come home to the hearts of-English men, for they had been their country's defenders, and that country could never see them, in the language of the Poet, driven " -P-- To beg their bitter breed " Through Realms their valour eyed 1 " —( Applause).—lt was impossible to view this state of distress without sympathy, and also without afford ing it every possible relief—(Hear, hear). Sir JAMES SHAW, in explanation, said, he had not doubted the existence of this distress in its most xravated shape ; his only doubt was, as to the appli -1 cation of the best and most efficacious mode of relief —!Hear). No man was more anxious than he was to relieve from suffering that brave class 'of men who h nobly fought and bled for their country. His o wish was, that the aid should be given on a suitable scale, in 'conjunction with Government and the Civic Magistracy. For this he was certainly most anxious, from a persuasion that without it no perma nent good could be accomplished. 'lbis was his firm belief; from a knowledge of the former circumstance, when, by their united means, a much larger number of sailors than could be now picked up were relieved throughout the metropolis. He had by no means said that this Meeting was unnecessary—Weer). . . . The Loan Maroa said, that he attended this Meeting, not as Chief Magistrate, but in his pri vate capacity as a man, anxious to promote its objects. After the observations they must have all formed, and the statements they had heard, it was quite unnecessary for him to say any thing in confir mation of the distresses which prevailed among the unemployed sailors. Any mode of relief would be better than to delay further any active attention to these poor people, in the expectation of some more effective plan being struck out. It was most to be wished that Government would go hand in hand with them—but if they did not, they must go to work by themselves. (Applause.) The seat thing would be to commence with a discriminating Opus, sou to separate the real sailor from the impostor. It *as only last week, that, by getting clothes for some poor sailors, he was able to procure them employment at the West India Docks. If the same aid were affor ded on a general scale, the same result must inevi tably follow.—( Helm, hear.)—He felt It his duty to attend there to-day, and offer his services in the pro motion of a business in which the motto was CAority. His Lordship ' concluded by saying—" They," the tailors, " protected us in the worst of _times, and we should prove unworthy of their future services and ungrateful for their past, if in their hour of greatest distress, we did not chm ! and relieve their si. tuation."—(Great applause. nyerate Lord COCHRANE woul not say much, because if they had not been unanimous, he was sure the state ments they had heard would have made them so. He had come there to subscribe his mite, hoping it would do some good. To propose asuitiscngptsois for the whole kingdom, s was done allots' two years ' ago, in this very room, was use l ess an d monstrous, for what had been its result? Was the country not as distressed now as it was th en ? W ere t h e. pour seamen not in a situation in which Government should relieve them? The Admiralty had funds in their hands Which were the exclusive property of seamen. Were' not the Droits of . Admiralty such ? (Load applauses.) jr so, what became of them?— How were they applied ?—Hear, hear, hear.) The ! Admiralty have offered an old bulk for 'the use of the Committee. Is that the sole reward of gallant y seamen, who in deeds of prowess have gone far be yond the army; for hatl the navy not done brilliant ,:lrfldits, where would have been' the army, whine would they haae risen so high ? Many of the men had now been skives: from the country w i t h heavy heart, and had gone to America, where inducement was held out for their encourager :lei While he cheerfully gave his mite, he begged he never would refrain from speaking truths, though these truths should be writhing to othe He knew one case of a young man who bad with himself, and for whom he applied to the g, miralty, but was told he could not procure a as he had wanted a few days of his num ran se tude. Surely it would be proper an opportuoity afforded to such men of completing their timt, the' than casting them abroad on the world. Meeting had been heard of for the relief of 5..:1 perishing in the meets. Why, in the name of Got, this Gerwart difference made ?—(Load arid r. Cheering).--Did any man now see a soldier stare, The subject was really so painful, and the contr.% striking, that he was almost overcome by it. w were some of the Lords of the Admiralty nut L or their Secretary ; and if they bad not come, were some of the Junior Lords not here? Girt seamen their rights, .give them the funds wincn h e , longed to them, and they would require no p u t,L, aid ; and for his own part he would cheerfu". su y, scribe I,OOOL as his share of the Droits, whit'.: to himself. Much might be done by the 36: cf , but he was afraid nothing effectual, unless Gor en . ment came forward and co-operated, as he ki s ,p e d and trusted they would do- With these few obsn. vations, he should now hand in his five gulaus... (Repeated applause). ' ZACH. WituLAT, Esq. said, that the Ad*ihy had Act very day given a pledge of doing Gomel. JAMER STZPHILII, Esq. repeated what he hx.i merly said about his interview with. Load Melvill e , and the Secretary's letter. He hoped the Noble laps, 'than whom none was more competent to judge *peeling the qualifications of seamen, would lead aid to the Committee, as he could do them an tial service. With respect to soldiers could say he had seen one who :had beei - obu t to beg in consequence of the reduction of the use. , He was sure there was no want of attention ea part of Government to both soldiers and sailors. Mr. Sruaog (one of* Society of Frienslst, that the object of the Meeting was to relieve ti tress of all sailors, whether employed in the Kir orthe merchant service. He felt it right to sac lest his subscription should be supposed to apply those only who had suffered in wars, which his of thinking taught him were unlawful. He recommended economy in the arrangements Committee, and dispatch in executing them. Lord COCHRANE said, that the reason why &a army was so well off was, that it was kept up as' ' whole, while the whole navy were brckes up. . Mr. LETT hoped the exertions of GAM' would be brought to bear upon this subject; :se! so, that the exertions of the preser.t Meeting be united with a future one on the general su'iit<t mendicitr. Mr. ROWCROFT drew a strong outline of Ai. vp. pressive extent of the Poore Rates in the where he resided. They exceeded sevto in the pound. He knew one unernploye i •A house, from which the owner derived no pre'll • was first charged 4001. for Poore limes, :Ir. vrffirds the sum was !educed to AlOll. The Gentleman condemned any allusion to pain details, where only general feeling and h..rre.,a. should be cultivated. He hoped parities arcel.l always bt kept_ alive, and free opinions passel epos them m their proper place and on special occmices; bit he deprecated their being intermixed with dm ritable topics. The better feelings of Awn, aal humanity should alone be f.und to prevailing em sions of this kind. The introduction of irrelevant matter had marred a former subscription, sad pry vented it from being as beneficial as it °therms might have been. As to the efforts of Govern:nen for sailors, veto could say that they had not N., alive to their situations, when there were 3,900 we men and marines in Greenwich Hospital ? A liberal subscription was afterwasds mitered seas Before the Meeting separated, Captain Guam stated, that Government had 394000 seamen sr..l ma rines belonging to Greenwich Hospital. Thanks were then voted to WILLIAM WILMS some; Egg. for his conduct in the Chair, sai warm attention to the general interests of buaaady. Till late CALAMITY at NEWFOUNDLAND. TO THE EDITOR OP THE TAL tha—l was very much surprised, on reading I paragraph in your Paper of yesterday, which ha previously found insertion in other Jouraids, ter senting the state of fit. John's, Newfoundland •• have been so much ameliorated after the revere t as to lessen, if not altogether moose tare appreScs sions so naturally excited by former accounts, telr the to the condition of its inhabitants. It is not my intention to impugn the motives i that publication, hut considering it calculated to ?ee judice the exertions making for the relief at place, I think it proper to give you the following es trict of a letter now in my penessioss, written .:e+ days previous to the Jut date from that island 4 item are now hundreds of poor creating alined der....te of habitations, food, or clothing. They me mad) surr- 3 1 • the streets, or picking a tniicrabie subsistence from the amuse heaps of ; and are seen in swarms Meals. mod the sari of those houses lately destroyed Idelaneboly lanted prove:, t before us 1 " Another letter mentions, that two of dive pot creatures were found dead amongst the ruin: : and sll accounts.concur in describing the prevailing wretch vines; as too genctal to admit of local relief. • It is reasonable to suppose every thing that is prac ticable will be done on the spot. Those wbo are :eft with the means of affording partial assistance, will cheerfully come forward with the characteristic be nevolence of the inhabitants, and the Governor had it in contrtsplat ion to employ some of the able-bodied men, while a few would drubtle-:s find the means of quitting the islitid but to state that the town sms likely to be soon rebuilt, and that relief had been, or could be there given, in any adequate measure, is to mislead the public, and injure the cause of ow si fering fellow-subjects. Relying on your candour and benevolencp for giving this publicity, I am, your obediert servant, A MASIIIEIt OF THI COMMITTAL FOP ot- LIILVING Tilk IMPRIMIS'S IT naL IT. JOYS'S, AMIIPOUSIDAAXIX London, Jamul , 6, 1615. of the _ I Str7 With vibe! e . ragem r . • gel to say •.! truths, er ti to elthea.... A . bad to th e . • reap peas serfs 1 artmizy J eir Om ; world his ier starvir t by it. Why lty not L et, c come, w i ly ? (iir ct h, is whr;n he. re WI p 314, rerfu - , tu b. the 31:c.: 114 lees is lu l x ,p r i few o t ro „ e guis ca _ Ad*ilry Ilonw*nt. he hall ler. d Mehitie, • Noble Lei to judge re . n anid Lead En I ern an ears .1 be 5e bee , If the Army. !titian on & re ' sailors iendst, sed. • !here the an- . n the Ki-F: re st to uy d w apply is Arch his reek e He some 4 it meats of r hens. son why e kept 4p tee up. Goya:tea iieet ; eeting void rad su'qect t of t's, ep. n the .'l4;;a MAI i*Nigs ' )laye a-Tt- o pro it. eat es, 2r: e1.:7- nm • * Alit • polio ad h..rrr,as irstics I passed epos ial °eclairs's; ed r ills rer charity. sal wail oe au of irrelevas oia, sad per it othenne Govern:nest ad not lse-s re 3,900 ? I catered into tails Goons noes sr..l as- sr WILISS• lair, and 5...1 • of bounty. - MIDLAND. c rut. 11 reading I . which had *ma*, rer- - oundland e omen. f 71. Ise appre-her counts, nib- se motives i ulated to ?re- relief ne VA following es- written fell island Anew dec...ee earn iure-ie • • the agniese mod die ie.% r iodised se tio of these pore ruins ; and aU ailing s-retch- relief.