Star. — London, England, 1828-06-14 00:00:00

4 .: . le "limo lOW itt th en want e d I- wh it the L e .. tible to he cet- it :outage Vet a n d to imp. :he ft.. eas e d state ok )(NO* to d e ., lett de.• : cocoa itty d e . 'ts. over' I had a. should': mself to' of, Wel rection Ireland, try, that pan of nintiple lowevet, 3bytht le Noble stating t portion' dsty that rithout a dote, de- I supply d not be nrd pro. ohilsitiOn ales H. a . f corn.ap kbe This, Doty, was . Attire &int as to , ! contra? y cnontries. 16 75 T 4l the prices rs. rots me llow 'pro d to other to this Bill i INiudintg Abu:. He tut to cres. isultiatiats. calcuiate re I{kelj to .:0/ 0 4r0 1 After the, Conti:cleat N.. into the d corn mat situation of he . amount :y by usaoy, ni in 1812; air) that no )portion be um* paid by ausessti cf He woold esperi- ST•ible Lod eriirsent, lay the picric med? The market last. leased. -ss. a it pike was• ot‘l loss on 1,875,000 L ,equer. He ole capital of were at least should pause If it, should o be cicaardcd It .Corn Law creed Four cardinal iciatUre the .clomesiic ID :rade system' i s hipping n• sts, -- by a coi :ountiy. this ranee L and if person mere it himself. — were trifling. as an amend- e that day six :tee, he would. felt confident i 8.11 founded y approved of r true that lag porarY o ° .e ' then, and es' of the fot fuer. ed in dy°,.. dw g Ile Lord (No ,ast year 10 the 600 0 .quarter , he ought to imee n aknavol Ks ° the aair ke4 .ffect 414 0 ° the • df the 00( 11 , to be inir a,be ble to discater was a thing P" pnci le e l : • e atte•n4ati this kind 00.16 wrtion. at r itie more proba te se in ("crag be - 6 . 0 r -that 141 er hb craw° iirehibitioa the on 10 Whi Cill er e r attetuPt force such a principle would be utterly hopeless. He recommended this Bill, because the duty might be so. varied as to amount to an obsolete prohibition, If their Lordships did not adopt the principle on ,which it pro ceeded, of a'duty vatying with the price, where were they to go ? Those who opposed this principle did not suggest any other. The great evil of a prohibitory sys tem was, that it occasioned corn to be locked up in w arehouses, which, when the price rose, was suddenly thrown into the market, and thus produced all the evils of sudden fluctuation. The great advantage of this Bill was, that while it allowed the introduction of small Tian inks of corn, it protected the country against an extraor- Ilinary influx _ The objections against the mode ofcaking the averages:slime in a great degree obviated by the intro o..ction of many more towns. The scale of duties was 'also much imprinted, and Ireland was - as much protec ted as England., when it was considered that she was not so highly taxed, nor buithened with pools rates. The great advantage of the Bill was that it would pre- Trent fluctuation. It was clear that it bad not excited any thing like hostility on the part of the agriculturists, for no Petitions were presented against it. He trusted' their Lordships would permit it to be read a second time, and. not prevent the establishment of that good understanding between the manufacturing and agricul mill interests which it was likely to produce. The Earl of M ALMESBURY explained, that be did not say he approved of the graduated scale of duties ; bet he approved of allowing foreign corn to come in in small quantities, and by instalment., in preference to allowing it to be imported is large quantities, so as to form a glut. Lord REDESDALE disapproied of the bonding system, because it promoted speculation. which was what he most dreaded. .It was of . great. importance they should always remember, that what was produced in a country cost it nothing; but what was brought from other countries must be paid for. Applying this principle to the Corn Laws, he contended that it was wise to produce as much as possible of those things to which the climate and soil of a country were adapted. It was right to encourage the productions of our own country, for they supported whatever trade we hid; and it our own country were to become barren, or to cease to produce. even our people must perish. The Duke of WELLINGTON replied.--Their Lord ships agreed to the -principle of the Bill, which was to give . ptiiiii,Ction..(o agriculture ; the only difference amongst theta was as to the Mode .at .Which that pro tection was t ) belie - ea 'He was hany, to. find that they did agree i's toihe Principle:and Only differed as to the mode. Some objections had been made' on ac count of the infl ienee of the witrehoosing system, but tinder the present, Bill thOituftpatiOni in 'price would be counteracted by the wiiebousing system. Under this Bill also there would be less temptation to specula tion. Under the former . system, the corn might be taken out of warehouse at a certain point ".vilthOvt.poyiog any duty; under this Bill it -must pay .a.deityaLOoming out of bond. Under the present Bill there was no risk that corn ' would ever coin* in duty fret. On this account be thought spectitation would, under this syitem, become touch less. With reference to • the duty on oats and barley, which bad been mentioned• by a Noble Elul, he-begged leave to reinitichhe Noble - Earl that the prOportion of these 1 grains to be ad MitteAllail heen,alreted r iuthe Billpf last year. In Alatitta to r, oats and barley had been un duly pt vowed by the Bill of last year, and it was thought they would le'saffietently protected by 'leaving cheat as they stood in that Bill. The :agricultural interest, though concerned that the Pric'etif other grain should not he too high, were particularly interested in keeping the price of oats moderate. It was under the Act of 1815 that the imPortatioo of oats and barley had taken place last year. His Noble Friend, who spoke Of the large its- 1 , porationa, &Mid:recollect this, and that ites*impoi ! tations were made under the old system. His Noble Friend had also mentioned the averages, but the mode of taking then had been improved. It would have been easy to have included the coon-sold in Iretind is well as that brought to this country in the averige; i bin thin, would have totally altered the system. - No compari son of pricei could then have been made, and the Bill would have been imposing a- Complete fallacy on the public. . It was better to have a sound systeut Of taking tbeirerages, and give a sufficient duty. .Thiqisestitin tbeiseas, &if the Bill propose to giire a ruffiment pro. tection ? He thought it did. They bad applied the experience of last yen, during 'which a quantity of corn bad been imported, and they had fixed the pro. teetiug price at Ms. the imperial quarter. A great part of that imported wheat had paid a duty of .. 225. the sPatiet, and 10400 quarters had been brought it 11. 4s. 8d... A considerable quantity was, however, left ill the warehouses; at least, on the Ist of May, after the ViiioOft quarters bid been imported, a tonsideralde iantity, remained : i4 the warehouses, wjsicb showed the dutrof 11.4..8a. was sufficient to keep foreign corn frtm the market between the months of May and Setiternber. • - Their Lordshipi then divided, when there appeared for the BM Conients, present • . . 53 I Non-contents, prune= . 12 Ditto,•prnaies . . ..5.5-158 6 f Ditto, wellies' . . : 7-19 ' : Majority . . 57. The Bill was then weed a second time, and ordered to be con tained on Tuesday neat.--Adjourned at Tax o'Ccoce. HOUSE OF t;OMOION§. Th. T. P. Coultravr. took the oaths and his scat... . Lord O. LENNOX Presented a Petition from the Physicians aid SoitOns of ClalChester,, praying the removal of the dißiculiies iathe way of Anatomical Study.-.. Ordered to be printed. Mr. ASH URST presented a Petition froin a parbilt in Wales in truer of the Small Note Act. ' Mt. W I I.SON2resented a similar Petition from Whitby. Mr. LIDDELL presented similar Petitions from York, Not tillbans and Darby er -Ordered to be printed. Mr. MOORE presented a Petition from Connie!, praying an ilbrsiry into the state of davqy. Mr. wdornfotitit presumed similar Petitions (three) from lierfoii. Air. fttNITT piiirmied a similar Petition from Warminster. Mr. W. HORTON L ave itotice . of a motion for the 3d of July, * To r e f e r LI a Eeikt . istnpiittee ail Acts of Parliament passed since the Unio n w ith Aelanci: which' relate to the United Church of I!aigi e o4 iiiii, efaryt,',Or to the doctrine; disci t tline, regulations ri g h t i i o u t rii* - es . tueiti i d . ; and alio all Acts of Parliament passed since t4at.p e ri ~ yreictt)2 any Mintier relate to Retnin Catholics ve Protestant prOter t .., • . . . .yr. NY. 0: kkWeseneed i Pediliiii firm Colchester, Praying . the *option u liber t y: , Sir. lif A y„ ACIALIIV presented IC ;Willie Peifticii firiiiißev eaSt4:answlYsii . . Nfr. i.Pinz't it,Yt ir4iigf Ain liar Petitioitifroadtive'Pliiiiiii Fa linws-.-Wfi lie alettierell to he printed. • Lori 41. T. >,f g, ix•traia fits motion on tie ineltord am - 1,411 tiaradon Sli , 25 1 4 5 . 111441: Sir IC 'Vo i r, Ar! iyge4id, 'a Pstirk4 froil.earktioi.alahrit . any further coacMar it* reathaiii• — . 4l i444 ill ir..040 4 ,,,, _.‘ . Mr, 7 -. 9 RA .0 ! i...Erslippetka, re:dila - a from the county of SLOW; ,f 4 7 4 .1 81,11 MS on kiffigni-r"L •'. 'Mr. ER SObY :considered that the laiefid interest in &ie.' hot c i sny reivainat she tirregetitla arp.ltil for- Br. KkNNEDY • pqrstired airtime tie Hen. Maher ropes. seining the candid iriterest,ot Scotland. Be, savaged that body,l dtnLii that tie' attain' interest sotigbt a duty on foreign wsroLi Si- C. 011 . 1111, Wisi.tjt was due to , the Agricultural Interest, of this' country that Me Maiesry's Government should state the. sensual thly meant to pursue on this important subject. He de. Blasi that the wool growers snout any unnecessary proteasion ;', tl, wiry sought what they.getuaol . nred to be their right, arid P awn " quite sure dim what the nerspervi.gatsd a k wia• 4111kMs et am illysitioui , Prime Minister of . *v. Crown 9000 not be correct, for he had teo.runchlood sense not to &jostles' to every doss of traders in this errantry. Mr. BARING expressed a with that the wool growers would bring forward some specific motion on the subject, and not night after night entertain the House with detultory conversations. lie did not see how the woo? growers could be protected in the way they desired• Mr. BRNETT denied that wool could be properly considered as a raw material. He could tell the House, that with the reduction i of the price of &OA 'wool, the manufacture export bid been re• duced; and the value of rennin stock lands ;Ind fallen in several couaties full twenty to thirty per cent. in consequence of the lost price of wool—The Petition was then ordered to be printed• ' Mr, C. GRA NT presented a Petition from the Manufacturers of a Parish in Scotland against any Duty on Foreign Wool. Ordered to be printed. _ Sir M. STEWA RT presented a Petition from Glasgow, praying assistance towards Emigration to Canada.—Laid on the table. SMITH trIRLD YAaxaT. Mr. Alderman W A ITH MAN presented a Petitios Ran cer tain inhabitants of Smithfield, against the removal of the, Market. Sir R. .WILSON said, that the butchers themselves were now satisfied that great cruelty was daily practised at Smlthfield,ind they were anxious to enlarge the size of the Market. Sir C. BURRELL said, that as London had so considerably itt creased, a large market should be held at the West End of the Town. He hoped that Lard Gtosvenor, as a large proprietor of. had, would give this subject his consideration.—The Petition was' ordered to be primed. Mr. It. GORDON moved for the appointment of a Select Committee to inquire into the present state of Smithfield Market, and report thereon their observations to the House. Mr. Alderman WOOD felt bound to oppose the motion, inas much as nothing could be done at the present period of the iession. If, however, It were delayed until next Seaga°. be would then render every assistance in his power towards the neeersary improve ment. Not a single salesman bad signed the Petition in favour of the removal of the market; none but speculators were concerned In the matter. He denied that the Corporation of the City of London were against improvement ; on the contrary, they had no lees than eight or ten times come before Parliament, praylog for improvement, yet their prayer had been as often rejected by one House or the other. He moved, as an amendment, that the further consideration of the question be deferred till the next &Moo of Parliament. _ _ _ Slr. BENETT supported the motion. He thought the Session was not so far advanced but that the House would find the labours of the Committee useful. • Mr. Alderman WA IT H \IAN denied that any odium ought to attach to the City of London on this question—they bad for the last 20 years made every effort to remedy the evil complained of, though it happened to turn out so ineffectually. The whole Me tropolis was interested in this subject, and be questioned if it were possible to have slaughter houses kept in a more cleanly state than they were at present. 'lt was also said that the market was Wed qua to health, but the contrary was the fact—Afor it happened that consumptive people went there to improve their health. The market was now well regulated, it was superintended by the city officers, and was in as good a state as it could be. The Osrporationmade every-offer to enlarge it, and lee saw no =Trashy For the present motion. H,wever, any evil which existed he was inclined to re medy, but not in the manner now sought—(Cries of Queidiii)-- He knew the was subject uninteresting' to many Gentleman 'but nevertheless it was Interesting to the public. • • -• ••• e' • Mr. Secretary PEEL said. that after the admissions matkp 17 the Hon. Alderman, he ought not to object to the apptintlient et a Committee now, which would greatly facilitate an incydry Mot the date of the market. He for one Wall ncit prepared to agree tit the removal of the market, without very =teat consideration, AO I giving all the parties, interested an opportunity for discussion. .• Mr. R. GORDON had not the least with to throw &nylons - -; cation on the city of. London ; all be wished was, that a due toquirp . . should "recede any Alteration in the market. - . • • Mr. Alderman ATtINS defended the Corporation of the cilri if Laden, Who had done all in their power to Improve the costa. don of the market, Mr. Ald. THOMPSON resisted the motion on twti Art, the latenessof the Session, and secondly, that even if theitie.' of*. market was altered, certain inconveniences must arise (rani the ?using Of cattle through the streets. • Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, but no dividon took place, and the motion was agreed to. A Message from the Lords Announced their Lordships' &Vel ment to the Covent Garden Market /Improvement and other Balls.' The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that the House, at its rising, should adjourn to Mooney next — Agreed cc. Mr. PEEL brought in a Bill for the better Recovery of Small Detusy—Read a first time, and ordered to be read a second dine on Monday next. SAXIL MOTU 090TLAND Vito CHANCELLOR of. the EXCHEQUER, iw moving the Order of the Day for the second reading of the Bank Notes (Scotland and Ireland). Bill, observed, that he had communicated with some. don. Gentlemen who were opposed to this measure, and that an arrange ment was made, in which he hoped the House would concur, that the discussion on the Bill should be taken upon bringing up the Report, and that the Bill should . .now be read a second time without entering into the discussion. • Mr. PORTMAN said, that not being able to attend the lase discussion on this subject from indisposition, ' and fearing that he should not be able to attend when the subject was again bropght forward,. without wish. ing to enter into any ;discussion - on .the subject, he wished simply ti enter his protest against the Bill, and against the principle which his Majesty's Governmentj sanctioned, bythe suppression of the small note citctis) lation.. He thought the measure would be injurious ,tp the landowners, the tradfrs.. and all Classes of persoas ki All he could say : was. .that when, the subject watt brought forward next Session, as be understood. it was; likitlf.o be, he sbeisld he reedy to state his opinion at reaterleigth op . it: He.:mild not interrupt thepablie business by enteri4loither into the subject at present: Sir JAMES GRAHAM willingly actioiesceeus;* arrangement which had been entered into to Ps:wipes the discussion pistil:oe bringing up of the Report. I might :tau', IMMO*. that his objection to the principhr: of the measure remained unabated, and he hoped trier Report would be brought up early io the evening, to. admit of a fell discussion. . • , * Mr. HUME said,, it was his intention on this occasion to have stated.his . objections io'tbe principle of the Bill,. and he meant in the Committee in propose 1 clause obliging every issuer of notes periodically to return, to the Treasury an account of the number - of -hetes WM*, by him. , I t o fact, the clause was the same as that which, he (Mr. Hume).proposed in 1826. , The BW was then read a second time, and ordered tube cow:, mined on Monday next. SUPPLY. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the Order of the Day for the House resolving itself into a Committee of Supply. • - Colonel DAVIES said, as.it was his intention to move an Amendment to, the erect that our War establish meat sluiuld be fixed at what it was in 1823. he wO.ll l O beg to say a few words. It was now well known that : the Finance ComMittec.did .not mean to recommend any reduction in the Arosy.Estimaterowd.hence it .be came his duty. to make a few observations on the subject. He did nikattsichani brain the. Finance Committee for the course they hat peirsued ; but he thought that . the evidence on which they acted. was not exactly of that description Wkich would be most desirable for .the interestaof the country. .He fixed upon 1522 as A year of pmeohongk at Olt pale time a year, when the e l liancetnt forela t w ar were as great as they were thisat ac e 18 . 0 there had been a'gradnal 'increase of the ails'', and now the increase was above 17,000 moo, at an additional expense of half a million latnonallic The mops in.lodia were also increased eu the upsappt , a Ave. thousand, so that in every til• reitioo went on, without any regard to ewe diwatoiiliesf revenue. In fact, taking the whole expend - cure of the.various branches of out military tand naval service, it amounted, to above two millions and a half more than in 18224,and if. such expenses were continued, it would by impqui t ale, to keep faith ; with the pablie knew very very well thowes.. , rain establishments must bokeit up, cost might; but then be thought that all necessary establish ' men is might be maiiitsieed eunuch less eapeissethan they wet" atputieni. The colonial garrisons onsht. to ~~~._. be eery differently regulated ; sad if that were so, there would be a saving of swieral thousand men. The elodle of - enlibtment for the .Colonies istight• also be altered for the better; and if these combined, ins! provernents were allowed to take place; phi rigid be an immense Saving to the public. .It was quite evi- E. dent that in the present state of the House, this subject did not meet with the attention which . it deserved'-- However, he should wish to see, the House more aliVe id.. the matter; and to say the truth' he knew not whe lks* -it was through despair or noti that the people seemed as indifferent to the subject as the House. The truth was, that the people, in.place of cillinglor ecri nomy and retrenchment, were. calling for the imposi tion of taxes on each other; and as long as this course was continued, so long would the Government keep up the most lavish expenditure. But it was evident that they should reduce their essablishinents in a time of peace, in -order to enter vigarouily into any con-' test, if untortbnately any contest 'should becOme ne cessary. Thii, !sorrier, was unattended to. Et- cessive taxation WI been unnecessarily continued, and if it were it4l kept up, he augured froth it the most dis astrous results. He had every, reliance on the Duke of Wellington ; but importuned as he must be for this; `andthat, and tlie Other situation, he must be atm* than man if he could tuccessfully resist them.' But if Parliament lent him its assiitance—if he set' fairly aboUt the work, he would almost eclipse the_ glory he had already achieved in the field against the enemierof his country. A greater victory than any he had yet gained awaited him; and, if he kept his eye upon the state 'of the coun try, and regulated.its expenditure by its rearincome; be would do more for his country than any other man who had e v er befote the guidance of the State. The Hon. Member concluded by moving, that our Military Es= penditure shOuld not exceed what it amounted to in the . year. 1822. Sir IItbiItrHARDINGE hoped the Hon. Member (Colonel Davies) would not think it disrespectful if he abstained from making any reply to his observations until the House went tnto Committee. Mr. Alderman WAITHMAN supported the Reso lotion: He wished to know whether it was intended to . . make'any alteration in the estimates ?' He knew they must rely entirely on . his Majesty's Government, for that opposition would'do no . good. There was no in ternal or external call for so great .an • expenditure, and he thought a reduction was very practicable. -• Mr. MONCK observed, that, in, no despotic State was there a dead weight so large as that of this country. The , House sat there year after year, Voting the public money into their own pockets. This was well known and ought to be corretted. . , - Mr, HUME observed upon the absence of Honou r- able Mensbersfrons the House. He saw there none of the representatives of the landed itiOtest,. and be criuld only account for , their absence upon tiseground 00144 I seere either satisfied with things as they ate; or that they expected from the resent. GoVernMeat -aseriatirei foe a rise of prices.in agricultural produce,"whiafsvonld clatestbem higher rents. Neither did he see any repre. aeutatives of the inercantile,or manufacturing interests; so that he must suppose them to be quite cornfortabli, and-that no man deified to .throw btibisburden. But, in.the midst of so mock plenty, - the pe . okle were suffer. ing, He wished to know what ocCurbis there wO for keeping up this yea; an army of 90,000 infantri?..:Be could account for it on no other ground than thatbis bit-1 jesty's Government were fond of large similes and the patronage they-threw into their hands s including the navy,: o.C.Agtallery , the volunteers . the militia ! ' staff; the yeo- i navy. and constabultir Ifo;ce , of Irelan4 we had ifelife 1(10,000 raten . tp arma;.lftwasslad the Government had not precipitated the country into a war, and- as heboped they did net mean to do so,' what use could therhasiell for such a force as this ?* He feared, this . ciansWalas' going on as the Noblesse of France before the Ineliklir Revolution. • The Government of that eountri Pinned' Sv the same course as'e seemed to be cosirsuing.69iviit.. creasing the burden of taxation by every possible means, waft -the people, It they went on in this wet, the re sult he feared must be the same. He was not, oppoeedto al standingarmy upon principle. It might at one time haste been contrary to the spirit of theConstitittion, but *mil* was sure it' was an' integral and an economical Obit of var.. Constitution. , He was always averse to dhirtles rip theldinistt y, and bad Mr. Canning lived, the Estimates would have been very different this year, for he knew: rthat he hid given orders for the reductio n of the Esti mates to the extent of one million and' a half., The 'Onossient he was gone. however, his plans were changed, and reduction no longer thought of. But he might fs• well speak to the winds, as to .that House.. Hon.- tiireabers 'were unaccountably absent; out of the. Hedge ober held quite a different opinion ; but within '11;h41( iialls".thekr sentiments exactly squared with those ,i*.theliCuiatir. Out, of doors he did not meet with rode: obis 'was . pat of (minion that tome reduction Was Inecessarj 7. 44:oo, could' not be paid- without some isa(stauctoinil ip on,_ No 'Ministry, be was sure, could stand'nnliss they reduced the expenditure of the coun 'tty., The Gallaat.Meaiber opposite.. the Secretary at %RAVE . H. Nardinge), heboped,wmild effect the same redactions in the" Army, which he had ,effected in the QtAleance. %Ile gave him great credit for what he did there, Abe did do half enough-- . (.A. laugh). He _ _ not was quite sure that the, three establishments might tedacesl from sixteen, millions is twelve, allowing five millionsfor the dead weight: Odle military Gentlemen io civil officx.would, best divest themselves of the idea of WOirlook And_ the Navy the same of the Ist of Jube, apsi. not ; thiaik : the pleat on of . the Ountry ,depended upon h4ving the, services in a limn it for immediate ] anion, 11 won't' on well; *lf this were not done 'the poi of Wellington would URN bait*, complaints ..tespetiog in the ,great, interests of the country ; and if 4e . aeted in a contraty,maAuer, his cunsolition at the :prosPetity of the couotd, would be great indeed. In this° cott9try, white ,s9,much.trtoney was ocollected in the ; OAP , 0 loctigett tun, the kbilksulitli who worked with his banmes all day long paid. as much in taxes its 'Opp Lord l cif the land. If the Noble" Duke at the head of theGrcequstant chosc icy pursue a system of economy, he might do move to distinguish his name as a benefactor to his country than all his military achievements, splendid as. they were. We should remove, tuition, reduce our military establishment, and until then we never could make any progress in improvement, wherefore he should steeppott the motion of his Hon. Friend. The . Hon. Gentleman conchided by saying, that the Honsi could.. not be of a different opinion ; and after asking pardon for having trespassed so long; said he would not' go into all the details, which would occupy too much time. lam. W. SMITH fully co:sculled in the absolute ne cessity of very large reductions in the public expenditure. He did not, however, believe that a continuance in the present. CbtirsO•Of things would lead to a revolution in this count''', although he believed that something like a stational )zankruptcy inustAsSue from it. He thought , the COOSittlitiOP might survive the shock, but that seanetking of that kind must follow if the present . ex• peedit,wolirete kept up, although not, in his time, he In' . frl A PILOw e waildeds As thin put sad negatived without a division Mr, Bftl GHTirecommended a vote ofitl,ooo In the Contnibtie, to he 4 1 44 to the Invest+tien West Wks. !a.m./oars ostai. • The SPEAK Mt don could be given Money could be - Estimate laid bfl TI• OTHANOI 'Objects as those demi by private societies; lb commence by the The House then _ _ _ _ • Sir HENRY HARDINGE said, he should hope fon Ilse indulgence of the Committee,' is the short Aube that be hadt-been in office had net permitted him tb.betouse so intimately acquainted with the subject as his• 1110411 able predecessor would have shown himself to be. .The • votes which bad hitherto been agreed to for•Artny sty. vices; left the whole amount (Or the year in the.ianie state as if no vote whatever ; had been taken r . •and-also left every Hon. Member at perfect liberty to'isetene4 • cording to his opinion on that whole amounts••'.He • *mild beg to. make a few observations on •whit-bad fallen from his Gallant Friend, the Hon-Member for • Worcester. And first, with respect •to Use. general amount of our military force; it was obvieurthatthat could not. depend .upon any general rules but that it mast be regulated by.orany. considerationsby a :die attention to our colonial policy—by the prospect' of , maintaining peace in Europe, and by the state of trattoo • quality at home. His• Gallant Friend objected tot the • existing amount of force, and wished-it to be reduced to that 011.822. It ought.co be recollected that a part of thb present Estimates wassivelledbeyood ,thesi&lait Estimates of 1822, by it: having bees transferred from • I the Army Extraordinatier. There svonld also= be a deduction (which would be found-in the fourth page of the Estimates) of 80,0001. lilting a proportion •for the pay-of non-effective men. !That saving would be pro; duced by increasing the standard from five feet sit inches to. five feet seven; 5,000 men Auld cost 110,00 W . and the 80,0001. to which he had adverted', would reduce the number in that ratio. His . Gallant Friend objected to established colonial corps. • He (BirHenry Hardinge) was, however, persuaded that to carry the system of sending. our own regular •• troops ti the Colonies further. than it was carried* present would be destructive of the energy and; char. ratter of the Army. Did his Gallant Foiiend 'recollect the ;constant state of exile to which , Oar bran troop.. must be ,subject, if that systitn weft• carried; ferther ? —lt was well •known that the 60th eat ••• for .thirty .or forty years considerid .as. a .ccindenustili corps ; and. the consequence was.. that it was verylel. •• .dom. indeed that the better descriptionelOffioers•could. be prevailed upon to enter that .regiment s .• hp studio* - ottraegintents more frequently to-the Colonies vre.Should destroy the character of our army; lapopreventing 144 k • Aristocracy of the country from - entering into .the sort Withsegardso tbeshirdoobjeetion °lbis 6allipt Friend, namely, to the Depot Companies, he contended _ that they were most useful. in.fiteding the service; and when regiments came from abintd, in tiffathinribtia with the greatest possible *Ed. -. The Gallant Offiya (Sir Henry . Ifardinge) then ran sive ment of.the.disposition,Of nut 011 4 47111:. —TIMM mete 29 battalions of infantry in Great Britain ;_ which wer e . barely su ffi cient to furnish rdftli abroad. Those reljefi were iiill?‘43r;Y:*;tiaitt so that seven. battalioos.a year. trete, ,requtted•fov.tbse , purpose. • The force had, therefore, been brought dowir -- -1" to the lowest possible scale. As a prhof; thettoirefietV• ' • battalions now re-forming in Great flrit i sin, - 90.0 rn retoed home only two years, and which, in two petite s More, must, be sent out again. Aftersomehritherollot servations, the Gallant Officer concluded by M0vin4; . " . 7.,,,r 4 a7 ',:!..That a Sum not exceeding t 250,6941: be graiited, t 0 :. .; . g,t his Majesty, to complete the suni'loi die training and • c‘arge , of the Land Forces at, hone and atiroadi @kept: ing.in India, for the present year." , • " m.h '' • , . r i"lr Colonel - DAVIES mailktaitteds-itig AIPP I O4O I I° #s l •'• "'• .Were. established to a large ainotiiitote the number of twenty.or•thirty thousand men- , -thete would then be • - no stigma attached to them: .Theysweeld -b*4141'7'... • officered, and being well : WU:red would be as effeetiyaj., and valuable as any other. troops. •He admitted that -. there Were advantage: .attendant on , the•depin tonspiho `! _ . •-'_, .~ 1~ • • ..,~~ . ~A . ~:.r Ni t. t ~Mi•~a . " trips; but their great- expensewai. objectionable. We really were descending from that vantage ,'graisid..' Which our insular situation gave us." While we retained> the command of the see, -it was. impossiblelthir. tasty -. • ...tt Foreign Power could. invade -witeWsiat India - islands before we could send not a - fore* eipable isfatenlistinge '- ' r ' The military min of this coot*, largned tit if *Opts a Continental State. If we.wete l ike ,A"isitrip,:pr PrOtill, then, indeed, we must always mairmaisAzturfite. ism*.ma force, however the expense of doing So might depress our commerce:or agriculture. Bdt in our insularitate•' the maintenance of such a force was unneceisary... .. .. Sir H. HARDINGE-explained: English 'Gentlemen were the hest• officera in the vtorld ; and' if reOments, were permanently . established in the Colonies they would by.deprived of the greater part of those Officers. Mr. I4UME, is answer to the Honourable Officer's itatethent, referred, to 'the case. of the troops in lailia, who were permanently established there ; and who, ne -vertheless, were as rod .soldiers as any in the world. Great economy Woad arise from having - treeps sta tioned-in thiColniiiis, instead of constantly removing , them. What ba bad -principally risen for, however, Was to observai . that the Gallant Officer had not stated why there was fa great a difference between the es- ' tablishmegt of infantry in 1822; and at the present 14 4: period. In 18112 that blisbment consisted 9f only .09.000, men; n . -it z consisted of 86.000. What were the circ ; ‘ ,Alifsici rendered this -increase • Of 17.000 men : 1 11iniasity?:. , He knew' if none. He, knew, however, that! Anany,..ol• our:,Cd ronies were overloaded' with' trsfotis, • hy'Which meals a great expenditure was, ! isietteted; , as. olio ,is.,oro tiding reliefs. A great v = t, ;t o r . might: Ott Owe 'in that respect. - '''A great cis might 'alio' fake - place in the troops in Ireland.' ItereNehlepUlte it the bead of the Government, and the ht Hon.Are,Chtio tenor of the Exchequer, were sivisr- ,in their wish. fir economy; . 10,000 of the 23,000 '4 4 10#0 . in , lreliod might be . withdrawn.' ' Whr . siere . VW teentenlxif Guards fuller than before? They used to be ciaopoised of seven or eight hundred men :. they now amounted to thirteen hundred; so• that where there 'were for:. merly only three - thciirund . !'dot - iGuerds;. - therit . „ . ieer t e ,stow five thousand. Dining ihe", lair -_ reign ' - i . fi red men formed the guard In which a whole:-regimint was *now employed:. Why ill this inctestse?-I.Whet necessity was there also for so large.a lsorty - Of *are*" ' Why make such a' fess about disChargqig . ii teie l 'atori in the public officec, at the moment, they weist)keepsist* sip thousands of cavalry, every horsiand rider of which cost the conntty a hundred. and 'fifty peunds a year?' Two thousand horse would be abundaritly . suffitientlGY the duty in which six thousand were.now eriploycd.-..r There was - another most extravaiant item.) , .Great merit had formerlYbeen 'assunted ' by GOvernosent:f44- , 'diminishing .the 'nuMber and increasiog the size 4.44' 'battalions, , Now* hoWeven WeAveretereGiieig to,ttleiold and condensed spite= of small car and as addiligli *: ..!!.. : . I ..n lr, 't , :c.i". • .1' - • '" ••:• ,;)•• : I : • .. 4'l I 10 . , !S-4. " .;.“• • • :" . 41 •(1'... • • Or' ~~ / h.. ht•lel*tiett 7/ the t~ahnl prodsltlom of the la salami It to beau kisaillits ts the C0gn 2 4g.... ".,,, IA . .3-rrli 7-4..1, •;r• ••••v • • -'" •--,- t ,- — ^ -4 " . all - Wormed the 'Hifi. , f,eiithrt, that do' -e):' es no it Com — nail Of 4opply-, wwl;fikrthe, r,4).#. 1 ") 1;97' voted in Supply, Whiels was owtfalmatki skit .:1: lore the•Coidutteeelsiorder tst hU Majesty:". ,4 i r4 !ELLOR of the 14%.CHICQUBR shld . ' lescribed by the Hon. Member *ere ; tere tat 4 , 1 Its, and ref:amended the parties in hi :- ' their own Individual and joint efforts.' :, en went into Coninittee. • ' •-; - ' ' ' - ' 111 1..! =.]:=ll