Star. — London, England, 1805-05-25 00:00:00

perfons had indulged in very free comments oti the fyikm of blockade which had been for fome time adhered to, but which had not been completely ef foqual, on fome recent occafions to prevent th e escape of the enemy. The rytt em o f blockade which had been adopted, might be proper or improper, ac cording to contingent circumflances. Probably it would 1.-.• politic at the commencement of a war, when it was almve all things =diary to our future opera tions to preferve confidence at home, and to protea the commerce of the country at that time pouring its wealth into the harbours of the ifland. Buz when the internal fafety is provided for, when the trade has hadrinie enough to Shelter itfelf from injury, then it may be very unvrife to perfevcre in the fame projea of defence. The attempt was unwire, becaufe the blockade was impollible to be permanent, unlefs we ...tub] command the winds and the waves, and tub. .eft the fublime meet:lllons of nature to our controul. 'nut were it practicable, it would be imprudent.— This country depends for its glory and bappinefs up ' •ii the fecurity of its remote connexions. Our fleets midi fail over the ocean, to the eatiern and weßern extremity of the globe, to prelate them from dan ger ; and alders a force is preferred in thefe impor tant fiontions, it is in vain that we triumph in the contrafted teas of Europe. At the opening of hof tilities, the principal objea was the fafety of the feat of empire ; in a more advanced period, the fe curity of the diftant poffeffions could alone infpire that confidence which was fo effential to fuccefsful hoßility. It would be naturally enquired, under this head, is the Britiih fleet at this moment in a con dition to conduce to our home and foreign proteftion? It would be teen, by the documents on the table, that fo lately as the month of Pebruary a furvey was made of all the fbips in ordinary, in order to after. lain to w hat extent, and with what degree of promp. titude the (hips in that clefs could be repaired; and the intention was to bring the line of battle hips to the force at which they Road at the conclufion of the 'aft war. The country had now to expert three (hips prepared for this year, nine more which were in the Merchant's yards, twenty-fix from the Rock to which he had jolt alluded, in all he believed thirty-eight (hips of the line, and many more were in an advanced Rate of repair. Thus would 115 or 120 Ships of the line be at the difporal of the Exe cutive Government, which would be adequate to every purpofe wherever the honour and happinefs of the Rate required that her arms Should be refpea cd. The dignity and felicity of the empire were ne ceffarily combined ; the moment we 101 l that emi nence, we (hould gradually fink into contempt and wretchednefs. Among the moll advantageous means of preferving our naval glory, he could not avoid confidcring a conciliatory fpirit with regard to the gallant defenders of the country; and the moll iticceisful way of gaining the affeeions of the kamen, was through the medium of the commander, under whom his duties were to be performed. Before the Noble Lord who made this motion could convince him ( Lor d Melville) of the juflice of the ob(ervations by which it was preceded, be mull (hew how the va cant flips in the Royal yards could be more benefi cially occupied; he mutt point out how the deficiency in the artifans could be fupplied; how the dißribution of thole which remained couldhave been more advan. tageous : but whatever might be his opinion was of lit tle moment ; yet before the Noble Lords around him would be latisfied of the accuracy of the propofitions, the Noble Mover had a much more difficult talk than he expated to perform. The tall particular to which he Should call the attention of the Houle, was the want of the neceffary gores. Upon this, how ever, he would enter into no controverfy with the Noble Lord. It appeared to him (Lord Melville) to be right always to referee a fupply equal to the demand of three years, but if this was not procured, he was not perfonally to blame. The exertions of the fait ten months had been abundantly fuccefsful, but it was material that in an affair fo important we Should not rely upon occafional aCtivity. It would be recollefted on this fubjea, that the re. port of the Commiffioners of the Land Revenue had been before the public many years, yet no thing was done in confequenee of their feafonable admonitions. It was true that prodigious im provements had been made in the agriculture of s.' country, and the attention of men of fortune and elates had been particularly drawn to a very valu able branch of that purfuit, the amelioration of the timber, and the increafe of plantations ; but thole who engaged in the produaire occupations, were more dilpofed to provid e f or t h e pre f ent than for fu ture generations, and the patriotic feeling had not always triumphed over the mercenary principle. He tincerele apologired to the Route for having engaged to much time on this occafion ; Noble Lords would however difcern how nearly his fenfibility mull be af. fated, and would grant him their indulgence. The reform propofed wt,uld perhaps not be produced by the means now fuggefled ; a new Comniißion had been instituted, under another authority, to enquire into objefts nearly conneded with thole to which the labours of the Selea Committees of their Lordflrips would be applied. The Members of the p4mmittee to which he alluded were feleCted with great judg ment, and with a peculiar view to the duties they had to perform. Whether with a view to private convenience or public benefit, he did not perceive any effential good that would refult from the adop tion of the meafure ; mach more he was confident I . would conduce to the ecconomy and regularity of tie Dock-yards, if a digeft were formed of ch g. or d:rs and inftruttions of official duty, by which the •would no longer b e f u bj e d to t h e changes to which they tad been expofed. The Earl of ST. VINCENT maintained, that the building (hips of war in the Merchants' Yards, was a fyßem equally *afield and prejudicial to the Navy. He Rated chafe (hips to be inadequate to the fervice, and even dangerous to bc employed. One of them, for inflance, drew her bolts, which, inflead of being from 18 to zo inches long, were only to. The (hip was in the utmoß peril of finking, without firers of weather. His Majetly's Yards were fufficient to build ten (hips of the line per year, betides executing all the fervice of repair;. The Noble Lord had called upon him to account for his not perfonally communicating with the Comptroller of the Natty. He took a courts more confident with the refpnnfibility of that of9cer. if the Firfi Lord of the Admiralty, and not the board, is to communicate with other officers, how is it to appear what inßruaions are given ? There was, in fait, no rcfponfibility, no competency is the preterit • Navy Board. Not one at them, with the exception of Mr. Ofborne Markham, who is fufpended, is compe tent to his duty. It will come out to be fo. He knew it mot' affuredly. As to the Noble Vifcount's charges again(' him, he treated them with the temper they deferved from him ; but their Loirdfltips would not aft juftly toward him, if they did not go into the inquiry. His Royal Highnefs the Duke of CLARENCE was fatis6ed from his earlieft acquaintance with the naval fervice, that the greatell abufes prevailed in the dock-yards. Of sOOO fhipwrights, which was the whole number in the kingdom, half was in the King 's yards. In th e m erc h ant ' s yards, 40 men could build a 74 gun (hip in 312 days. It was owing to want of proper regulations that proportionate difpatch was not ufed in the King's yards. The deficiency of tim ber had been complained of ever fince 1785. His Royal Highoefs even went through the hiftory of the naval confirudions fince the adminiftration of Lord Sam%vich ; he approved of the condo& of Earl St. Vincent in every part, particularly in his exertions for reform. He would vote for the Committee. Lord SIDMOUTH declared himfelf hoftile to the motion, as it appeared to him that it relied on no Parliamentary grounds. There did exift no dire& charge again(' his Noble Friend (Earl St. Vincent) though there were differences of opinion as to certain parts of the adminiftration of the navy, while he pre tided at the Admiralty Board. When the motinn for the produftion of the papers was fir(' brought for ward, he entertained ftrong doubts as to the neceffity or expediency of making them the ground of any fpecific inquiry. Thefe doubts, from more mature confideration, were removed, and he was clearly of opinion, that to go into the Committee propofed could promote no ufeful purpofe. This being his decided fentiment, it was not his intention long to occupy the attention of the Houfe. He had rifen chiefly for the purpofe of laying a few words on two points which had fallen out in the courfe of the de bate. The one of there related to the fuppofed in congruity is the opinions of his Noble Friend, on the fuhjed of building (hips of war in the private dock yards ; and on this matter he felt it his duty to make a lhort explanation to the Wore. In the fum mer of ttlo3, his Noble Friend had felt it to be his duty to examine in perfon the flare of all our naval arfenals ; the impreflion on his mind, on his return from this tour, was firongly, that very large fup• plies of (toms, but efpecially of (hip timber, ought to be, without delay, procured. In effec9ing this moll deferable objet, his Noble Friend had two grand points in view. He was anxious for a vail addition ' of (hip timber for the Navy, and he was equally de &Gus for this purpofe, that the mor.opoly in the hands of the private builders (hookd be deitroyed.— On a more mature confideration, however, he found that the monopoly c uld not at once be got rid of, and that the fupply could not be procured to the ex tent required, if the private timber contrattors were altogether excluded. The plan, then, of confining the building .f flaps to the King's yards, was need rarity given up ; but that w.:s no proof that the opi nion of his Noble Friend sr as cha, geable with incnn latency. He himfelf could tettify to the induftry and anxiety of the Noble Lord to procure a large fupply of timber for the Navy, though it was impof table tor him, on the prefent riccafion, to enumerate the proofs of his affiduity. He might, however, Rate one circumllancc, and that was, the application of the Noble Lord to a great commercial ellablilhment on the fubjea. Tht refult of this application was, the diredors of the eflablifhment did agree to build no new (hip for two years, and to accomplifh this they were to permit their (hips to go two extra voy ages. So much he felt himfelf called on to Rate on the fir(' of the two points on which lie conceived ex planation neceffary. The fecond point to which he wished to refer ova., the mifunderflanding which filo , filled betwixt his Noble Friend and the Comptroller ' of the Navy. He agreed with the Noble Vifcount who fpoke fecund in the debate, as to the expediency of union and confidence betwixt two perfons holding fuch high firuations in the country. He lamented that fuch mifanderitanding had exi fled, and had done every thing in his power to remove it, thong!) unhap pily, without fuceefs. In juflice to his Noble Friend be mull five, that he never (poke of the other perfon but in terms of the greatell liberality. Returning to the fubjed before the Houfe, he Rill argued that no parliamentary ground had been advanced for the Committee. He knew that there cabled a firm de termination to enter into a liria examination of all abut - es in whatever department they cabled. He was ,confcious that whatever was negligent and corrupt would be amended, and ifhe were not confcious that fuch was the difpolition of the Right Honourable Gentleman at the head of affairs end his colleagues, he fhould never have confetateel to become a meutber of the fame Adminifiration. Lord HOLLAND fopported the motion for the Committee. He was anonifhed ot the condo& of the Noble Vikonnt, who had given the Noble Earl fuch praife for his public conduer, and Rill refuted to vote for a Committee, in which every opportunity would be afforded him of fully clearing his charaaer from every afperfion. He was equally furprifed to hear it afferted, that there was no Parliamentary ground for inquiry. Was there no ground of inquiry when oppofite charges were brought forward ?—Was it of no confequence to afcertain whether the prefent Ad miniftrationewhich had promifed fo much, had done fo little to redeem there protnifes?—Was it of no mo ment to inquire whether the Rate of the national de fence was improved under the naval adminiftration of the Noble Vifcount who fpoke fecond im the debate ? Thefe were unquellionably all matters of the highell moment—and they were precifely the matters to be conlidered in the Committee. Two feparate fyflems of defence have been tried, and it was continent with the belt Parliamentary ufage to inftitute an invelti gation which of the two was beft fitted to the circum fiances of the empire? There was much too in the papers on the table to juftify the moll rigid inquiry. It was Rated that in 18o3,,contraas could have been a formed at the rate of 261. ton for a (hip of 74 guns Ito be iiniflred in three years ; and a 32 goo frigate at i the rate of 201. a ton, and to be &tithed in two years. In another paper, however, it was Rated, that no Icontraa Could be obtained fo: lefs than 361. per ton. This was a molt extraordinary difference in the (pace of lets than two years, and it was highly 6t that the Winds fhould go before the Committee to report whe ther the fyttem of building in Merchants' yards bad not been . carried to a molt unwarrantable len; th ; and whether coritraCts had not been formed on very dif , advantageous terms ? His Lordlhip next animad verted, in very fevere terms', on the efcape of the French fleets. If the fyllem of blockade was impo litic, the Noble Vifcount had made ample amends by totally departing from it. A French fqaadron had been full fix weeks in the Weft Indies, at full liberty to tear and wear the (hips to pieces, as the Noble Vifcount had emphatically erpreffed it. Surely when all our colonies in the Weft Indies were left to the protedion of one fhip of the line, if the French were not triumphant the Noble Vifcount could boar no (hare in the blame. His LordThip, after ftrongly urging the neceffity of inquiry on all thefe interelting points, fat down by giving his hearty vote for t h e m ot i on . Lord HAWKESBURY profelfed Iris difinclina lion to follow the Noble Lord, who bad made the motion, into all the derails which in the courfe of his fpeeeh he had thought it neceffary to fubmit to their Lordfhips. The quetlion, in his opinio n , was nei ther more nor l e f s , th an hether the Naval Papets moved for by the Noble Lord and the Noble Vifcount who was lately at the head of the Admiralty, should be referred to a Seleft Committee? Under any fatua• lion he fbould have confidered that as a delicate quef don, but particularly fo when he had that impreilion upon his mind, that it involved confiderations of much greater importance and peculiar delicacy.— Were a Committee of the kind appointed, it could never proceed to the length of making a fatisladory report, without difclofing information which might be moll prejudicial to the naval department. He was perfuaded that Noble Lords would agree with him in the propriety of not making public certain details, which it was at prefent prudent to keep, not only from the knowledge of Foreign Powers, but even from thofe who were bell affeded to the Go-1 vernment of the Country. Before their Lordfhips Ihould confent to any imprudent difclofure of that nature, it would be requifite that very flrong grounds indeed &mild be laid down to jultify fo improvident a departure from the ufual principles upon which their Lordfhips had hitherto abed. It was made a quel tion, whether it was better to build i n th e Ki ng ' s or the sferchants'-yards ?he did not think it neceffary to difcufs an abllrad point of that nature. He would look to'pradical utility, and he would fay, the more that was done in the King's yards the better; but at the fame time he felt himfelf compelled to avow, that it never had been found pradicable to fully provide for die lupport of the Navy by an exelu five employment of the advantages afforded by the Royal Yards. The having recourfe to the Mer chants' Yards, was, he would admit, attended with confiderable expense ;—but ht thought it snore pru dent, more wife, and, upon the whole, more ad vantageous to the country, to facrifice fomething in point of economy, than to rifk a dangerous dimi nution in our Naval Force, by rellriaing the con flrudion of fhipi of war to the Royal Yards. That was a point upon which he had much reflected, and the more he confidered the fubjed, the more he was convinced, that in time of war it was utterly impollible to keep up a fufficient number of Ibips upon the flocks, and at the fame time provide foi the neeeffary repair*, of the &ilia employed, without having recourfe to the Merchants' yards. He omit • dered the Committee moved for by the Noble Lord as wholly rtnneceffary. A Commiffion to enquire into naval abufes had been appointed three years. ago ; they had exercifed the duties entrulledro them with zeal, accuracy, and fidelity. His Majefly's Government were not infenfible to the merits of that Commiffinn, and in confequenee of the reports which proceeded from it, they advifed his Majelly to in-' Ilitute another Commiflion, for the precife purpofe' of carrying the falutary improvements fuggefled by it into effect. Both chore Commiffions were in full adivity at prefent, and therefore he did not think it neceffitry, while all the important fubjeds connec ted with the Navy were under their confideration, to refer the voluminous papers which had been laid on the table to a Committee of their Lordfhips. :What ever advantages in point of reform were attainable, he thought they were more likely to be derived from the labours of thole two boards, and from the hada try and knowledge a the very meritorious men who compofed them, than from fubmitting, at this late period of the Sefton, all the complicated details of the Navy to a SeledCommittee of that Houk. He. mutt therefore oppofe the motion for the appointment of any fuel; Committee. The Earl of BUCKINGHAMSHIRE laid, that upon the fame grounds en which he oppofed a fimi lar motion refpeding the Noble Earl on the curls bench, in a former inflance, whichenotion that Noble Earl thought thofe molt his friends who refilled, he ffinuld feel it his duty to vote against the prnprifition before the Houk. The principle which' influenced him on that occafion, was this, that he and his col leagues in office, thought that to accede to that mo tion, would be to induce an inference unfavourable to the charader of the N 'ble Earl; and, he trolled, in purfuing a like courfe, with regard to the prefent motion, he ffinuld not be fuppofed to feel a friend fhi p lefs warm for the Noble Lord, than afluated his former conduft towards him. As to the infinuatinns which had been throe n out, that, if the propofed in quiry was inflituted, blame would eventually attach to the Noble Vifcount (Melville) for not having fla tioned a fleet in the Welt Indies, he mull lay, in juftice to the Noble Vifcount, that the nmiffion com plained of was by no means culpable. A Noble Lord on the other fide had obferved, that when the Roche fort fquadron arrived at the Weft Indies, we had only one flip at the Leeward Iflands. Granted ; and he would alert, that to have had more there would have been extremely wrong. We had our fleets in Europe to meet the enemy's fleas where they were, and to have lent them to the Weft Indies, where no holt& fleet was then to be found, would, he maintained, be a molt injudicious, nay criminal diftribution of our naval force. For the juflice of this nbfervaticn he would confidently appeal to the opinion of the Noble Earl on the crofs bench (Lord Si. Vincent sledded cleat). Earl SUFFOLK bore teflimony to the meritorious fervices of tart St. Vincent, particularly in inulitu ting that highly ufeful Board, the Naval Commit . - fion, and vindicated the Noble Earl from the charge of not having fufficientlyattended to the condruttion of fmaller fixed veffels. The Noble Lord animad verted on the comparifon that was made between the Noble Vifcount (Melville), and the Noble Earl on the crofs bench, with refpett to the building of (hips ip she mychaots' lards; and übktrjrsd that this 'Terence was kept in the fhade, that although both Noble Lords reforted to the merchants' yards, they did not do fo on the fame terms, or any thin like it. For the Noble Vifcount contraded for build ing fuch fhips at one third more per ton, than the Noble Earl would have accepted, or could have had them built for. The Noble Lord complained of the delay that had taken place before any of our naval force was difpatched to the Weft Indies after the Rochefort fquadron had failed, and alfo commented upon fome appointment of a relation, which turnout Hated the Noble Vifcount to have made under im- - proper circumflances. Lord MELVILLE fair?, jle could not vote for this motion without a breath of public duty. ‘Vith regard to fending out a fleet to follow the Rochefort Squadron, there was no delay whatever on the part of the Government of this Country. On points of this nature, their Lord(hips mull be aware, that he could not enter upon a detail, without giving im proper information; but he was glad that this parti• cular and fpecific point was capable of being ltated without public inconvenience. There are near me, (laid his Lord!hip) thofe who know the inftrudions under which the Channel Fleet were to aft. If the enemy's Fleet fhould fail from Rochefort, or any other port, the inarudions to our Fleet were pointed rn that object. Thcfe inflrudions were, to lofe no time in fending a detachment after them. Thefe in firudions were not late inflrudions ; theyswere given fo far back as the month of Augult lad. The Rochefort fquadron failed twelve days before it was known to any Admiral in the Channel Fleet. The 14th day after it failed was the first time I beard cf it ; the next morning I fent the order, without other information, for a detachment of our fleet to follow them, and it did follow them to the lirelt Indies; and therefore there was no delay on my part—and the Noble Earl mull forgive me, if I tell him he fhuuld fpeak out much more plainly, or infinuate much Ids. —Againft the former I can meet him; againft the latter no man can. I have given him diftind proof of the inaccuracy of the rumour he alluded to ; and as he heard thefe rumours without any thing to con vince his underflanding of their truth, he flsould not have given them the fandion of his name by repeat ing them. Does he think that under fuch furmifes as there he is entitled to !tatter his poifoned arrows at his will I—Let him learn a lelfon from this event, not to deal too haftily in rumour to the prejudice of the reputation of a Minifter who has great and 4rduous duties to perform. It is not becoming in that Noble Earl, nor fuitable to the rob': blood which' tuns in his veins, to circulate under the fandion of his name, injurious rumours without foundation, when they may be inslufirioufly propaga te d b y malevolent men where I have no opportunity of refuting them."— ( Year! bear! hear! rifountird from dyfteent parts of the Nov!. The Earl of SUFFOLK explained, and avowed, that he did not believe the charge which had fo pro perly excited the warmth of the Noble Vifcount. The Earl of DARNLEY replied to the arguments which had been urged againa the adoption of his motion referring the papers to a Committee. For the first time be had that night heard an unqualified cenfure thrown upon the pratice of blockade. Had that excellent (ram been maintained with the fame dauntlefs perfcverance that it had been under the na val administration of his Noble Friend, a French fquadron would not now be rayag;rig and laying on. der contribution our poffeffions in the Weft Indies. A Noble Vifcount (Lord Sidmouth) had profeffed a great friendfbip for his Noble Friend, and pronounced a high panegyric upon his meritorious fervices and brillidnt talents, whether employed in the civil or ac tive department of the Navy ; but would all thofe great and defervect encomiums fhelter his Noble Friend from the effeit of thole charges which had been preferred againfl him in another place 1 His Noble Friend had been accufed of being the greateft enemy which the country ever had, a Itaitt of the fouleit kind had been caR upon his great charader, and when he required it, when he earnellly entreated it, he thought it repugnant to every principle of juf, tice, that an opportnnity lhouid be withheld front him to inveftigate and refute thofe heavy and (evert imputations upon his condud and cherader- He thought their 'Lortithips could pot, without being guilty of great iurjuttics , refute to fend the Papers to a Committee. The Houk then divided on the original Tullio% - - Contents 33,-Non-enntents 88.--;Majority ss. Adjourned till Monday. HOUSE OF COMMOWS. Colonel WOOD gave notice that he would this day week tistwO that there be laid before the Houle tin Minato:sof the Fumantile of the Court Martial which was held on Rest Admiral Si! John Duckworth. It was ordered con the Motion of Mr. Tierney, that the Setedt Committee to which the fabled of the Lambeth Water Works was referred, do meet again,saud report thereon to the Houle. The Itt:turn of the spences inestrred by Lriminal Profeention in Inland. which Was ordered to Me laid before the Howe Aiout fin weeks thee, was, on the Motion of Sir J. Newport, ordered to be prefented forthwith. A gleffage was delivered from the Lords, informing this Hoofs that they had agreed to the Land Tat Commit:goners Nomination Bill, and the Slate Duty Bill. Another Meliage Rated their Lordfhips' de4re to be informed by this Houle upon what grounds, and for what purp..te it was. that the attendance oldie hail of St. Vincent wet required before the Seket Committee appointed to examine into the fulled of the repairs of the Romney and Is Senfible, and other copies connethd therewith. The Houk refolved that they would fend an =Ewer by Meciengers of their own. The Route then proceeded to ballot for a Sete& Committee n! at Members, to confider of the mover contained iu the FLventh Report of the Comirifli mers of Naval Inquiry. When the staff,' were doted, Mr. Hufkiffon, Mr. Sturges Bourne, Lord Fitzhar. ris, Mr. Boyd Alexander, Mr. Ornefliy, and a few other Mem bers were appointed to examine the Lilt,, and report to the Route On what at Gentlemen the choice of the. Houle appeared to fall. The Poft Horfe Duty Farming Liii was read a fird time, and ordered to be read ; fecond time. The Auditor's Office Regulation Bill was read a (mood time, and ordered to be r..1-.Tred to a Comminee on Monday. Mr. ROSE reported from the Committee to which th Free Penis Ad was referred. The Relolutions were read and agreed to, and a Bill ordered purfitlnt to the fpi r i t tlig.reof. A new Writ was ordered to beiffued for the eledlion of a Mem ber for the Borough of Newton, in Hatur.lhin, in the room of Charles Chapman, Efq. who has accepted of the CLiitern Hun dreds. The ATTORNEY GENERAL gave notice, that on Monday next, he would move for leave to bring in a Biii to amchd the laws refpedting the apprehenfion of Public Offenders who may dope from one part of the United Kingdom to the other. On the motion of Mr. Dennis Browne, it was ordered that the Report be taken into farther conllderation this day fix months :—. the Bali: taerefore loft for the pretest &Mon. Lord A. HAMILTON gave notice that on Monday he wou'd make a motion rettivs to the powers of the Cern Committer. The Irf>a Small D want poncg, Irgwa off. nu